# Is Diaz really ducking Mayhem?



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

For those who haven't been following it Mayhem Miller has recently started a smear campaign against Diaz stating that Diaz is ducking him.

Miller claims "THEY’VE BEEN OFFERED THE FIGHT MANY TIMES" and that Diaz is using fighting at 170 as an excuse to avoid Miller. Miller sights Diaz fighting twice at 183lbs last year as evidence he is more than willing to fight "old men" at a higher weight class but not a "young man".

http://dontbescaredhomie.com/











Diaz responds (translation may be required):






So is Diaz scared? Or is Miller just doing his thing?


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

I personally think Diaz is scared. He found at 183 before like you said and Miller said he would meet halfway (I think he said that right?)


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Ya Miller said he would meet halfway but that it was impossible for him to cut back down to 170 as it made him too ill the times he did it. But that's the thing, the argument can easily be flipped around.

The only fair way to do this fight would be a catchweight 177.5 or something.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

It's difficult to see how he COULD be scared, given the man's a professional fighter. He did just school Paul Daley, a man everyone said would knock him out... and he did so on the feet. I have my doubts that Nick Diaz is afraid of much, at least in regards to other people. I have that doubt about most professional fighters, though it'd be silly of me to say that 'ducking' never happens.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Moving back and fourth between weight messes with your endurance and training methods to go up 13 lbs a division especially with all the styles of training that NIck does including his triathalons and so fourth can just be too difficult for him, and hell maybe he doesn't want to cater to MIller.

The question is why has Miller not made 170??? Is he ducking Diaz at that weight??


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

I doubt Diaz is scared at all, I bet if the money was right, he'd do it a 185. He's the champ after all, and Mayhem isn't exactly on a dominating win streak, so there's little to gain for Diaz at this point. I was all for this fight back when it was heated, but now I'd rather see Mayhem hop over to the UFC, or drop weight and challenge for the title, those are the only two that make sense to me, and Mayhem said he won't drop weight, so to the UFC he should go.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Miller claims it is impossible for him to make that weight. I somehow doubt this.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Ape City said:


> Miller claims it is impossible for him to make that weight. I somehow doubt this.


He acts as if he's carrying around thick muscles that he cant lose. Sounds like somebody is making excuses himself.

Funny how he's acting like NIcks a coward for not making 183 yet he's not jumping to make 170. I smell a hipocrit.


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## Mike28 (Aug 11, 2010)

_RIVAL_ said:


> He acts as if he's carrying around thick muscles that he cant lose. Sounds like somebody is making excuses himself.
> 
> Funny how he's acting like NIcks a coward for not making 183 yet he's not jumping to make 170. I smell a hipocrit.


He has said many times he walks around at about 205-210 and feels drained at 170. The last time he fought at that weight was 5 years ago. That is not ducking. Diaz has fought at 180ish within the past year or two.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Mike28 said:


> He has said many times he walks around at about 205-210 and feels drained at 170. The last time he fought at that weight was 5 years ago. That is not ducking. Diaz has fought at 180ish within the past year or two.


Regardless Diaz is the 170lb champiion. Mayhem hasn't held a title since??

If Miller feels drained at 170 maybe he needs to quit calling out WWs. DIaz is a champion, Miller is bumping his gums. He needs to move down or zip it.

If Miller feels uncomfortable at 170 thats fine, he should respect the fact that Diaz doesn't feel comfortable at 183. Period.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Hmm that is a very good point. Calling out someone not in your weight class is one thing, but calling them out and asking them to move up when you aren't a champ is a bit much.

If there is actually interest in the fight I wouldn't mind seeing the fight at a 177.5 catch. I just wonder if Diaz is wondering whats in it for him. Diaz would basically be pumping Mayhems fighting career back up a bit since Diaz is on a good run (regardless of outcome). 

I also was wondering if Diaz is thinking about the new SF owners. He certainly will have a lot more opponents coming up in the next couple years if things play out ala WEC/Pride. 

Anyways I think Mayhem is just doing what he does best: talking and trying to get attention. I think Diaz is wondering what's in it for him. Diaz has seemed disgruntled in recent interviews, especially the most recent one in which he complains about fights being scheduled with poor notice and insinuates low pay. I'm wondering iuf he wants his big pay day to move up for the feud fight.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

Okay so apparently everyone knows part of the story so I'll break it down. 

It all began way back in EliteXC when Diaz won a fight and Mayhem was giving an interview, Mayhem was being his Mayhemy self behind Diaz while hwas talking, and Diaz took offense and did his whole blargy blargy blarg, I'll kick your ass etc. 

Then fastforward to the brawl, a mistake Mayhem has admitted he shouldn't have done the way he did and wishes he could do it differently. 

Mayhem says, to the effect of "Yo, Diaz punches me in the face, and the dude hits like a bitch!"

Diaz says, "Homie, I'm Nick Diaz beeeattch I'll **** your crazy ass up" (translated from Stockton to English. 

Mayhem says, "Bring it homie, you've fought at 183 and around there before, lets do it."

Diaz replies with no way, you ain't on my level. 

Everyone in the MMA world is like "F*ck yeah he is Diaz, lets do it!"

So Diaz says, come to 170. 

Mayhem says, and has said for years, "I can't make 170 anymore, I barely made it there to fight GSP and refused another fight in the UFC because I couldn't make it with 2 months notice after GSP."

Mayhem elaborates saying, "I can make 182 after taking with a nutritionist, lets go for 182."

Diaz says, "I want 2 million dollars and 178, come at me Mayhem!"

Mayhem laughs at him for being a p*ssy, and calls out middleweights since they're not afraid to fight him. 

So who's actually ducking who, the guy who's working to make the fight, or the guy who makes outrageous demands?


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)




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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Okay so apparently everyone knows part of the story so I'll break it down.
> 
> It all began way back in EliteXC when Diaz won a fight and Mayhem was giving an interview, Mayhem was being his Mayhemy self behind Diaz while hwas talking, and Diaz took offense and did his whole blargy blargy blarg, I'll kick your ass etc.
> 
> ...


How do we know that Mayhem can't make weight?? Alves and Johnson walk around bigger than him.

If Miller wants that fight so bad.. why not drop down and challenge?? He's the one bumping his gums.

Diaz is the WW champ. He doesn't need to chase anybody. Miller isnt even a champ... would the case be the same if Yushin Okami was calling out GSP??
And GSP says

"look I don't feel comfortable fighting so heavy if you wanna fight come down to my division... where I am champion"??

Would that mean that GSP was ducking Okami??


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> *How do we know that Mayhem can't make weight?? Alves and Johnson walk around bigger than him*.
> 
> If Miller wants that fight so bad.. why not drop down and challenge?? He's the one bumping his gums.
> 
> ...


Bold 1. It has been explained a great many times in the strength section of this forum, and on a thread regarding Nate Marquardt. 

Bulkier fighters have an easier time cutting weight when its done properly because of the natural liquidic nature of muscle mass. 

Mayhem on the other hand does not have a large muscle mass, nor does he have much body fat. He's said in an interview he walks at less than 7-8 percent. Which equates, assuming he's walking at 210 to about 16(8%)lbs of body fat. He's explained that he cuts about 15lbs, then the rest is water weight. 

Bold 2: He may not have to chase anyone but he is. When he's yelling and screaming about how Miller is a bitch and won't fight him, and how he can kick anyone's ass. He's calling Mayhem out (Chasing him). 

Bold 3: The difference is GSP isn't saying, "that guys a bitch he can't beat me, I'm too much for him, he's a p*ssy." Which is exactly what Diaz is saying about Mayhem. 

Or at least was until Mayhem said, whatevs I'm over his punk ass, all of a sudden, now that Mayhem doesn't want to fight him anymore the trashtalk is over... 

I'm not saying Mayhem deserves the fight. I'm not THAT guy. What I'm saying is that while Mayhem was working to get the fight going (he even mentioned going to Scott Coker about it), Diaz has been making outlandish demands in order to take the fight.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Bold 1. It has been explained a great many times in the strength section of this forum, and on a thread regarding Nate Marquardt.


Well if Mayhem can't make 170 than why does he continue to call a smaller fighter out?

Diaz isn't a MW. Just because he took fights there before doesn't mean that he feels comfortable at that weight. 



Squirrelfighter said:


> Mayhem on the other hand does not have a large muscle mass, nor does he have much body fat. He's said in an interview he walks at less than 7-8 percent. Which equates, assuming he's walking at 210 to about 16(8%)lbs of body fat. He's explained that he cuts about 15lbs, then the rest is water weight.


Yet he's campaigning for a fight against the WW champ?



Squirrelfighter said:


> He may not have to chase anyone but he is. When he's yelling and screaming about how Miller is a bitch


He's responding to Millers internet war. MIller is going out of his way to try and embarass and disrespect Diaz using the media as his tool.

Diaz's responses are just. Miller needs to move down. He's the one with the beef.



Squirrelfighter said:


> Bold 3: The difference is GSP isn't saying, "that guys a bitch he can't beat me, I'm too much for him, he's a p*ssy." Which is exactly what Diaz is saying about Mayhem.


Once again Diaz is responding. The ball is in Millers court who is openly pursuing a fight with the WW title holder. If Miller can't make weight he is essentially begging for a fight that he's not prepared to take at the Champions weight class. 

That makes MIller a cry baby.



Squirrelfighter said:


> I'm not saying Mayhem deserves the fight.


Good because he doesn't




Squirrelfighter said:


> I'm not THAT guy. What I'm saying is that while Mayhem was working to get the fight going (he even mentioned going to Scott Coker about it), Diaz has been making outlandish demands in order to take the fight.


And why shouldn't Diaz make the demands?? He's earned his spot. He's the champ. He's beaten everybody Strikeforce has thrown at him. He's defending. He's moved weight. Now he doesn't want to fight at a bigger weight class to cater to some loudmouth who has never even defeated a top 10 fighter.

Nick Diaz aint ducking anybody. Miller is acting like a drama queen here.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Well if Mayhem can't make 170 than why does he continue to call a smaller fighter out?
> 
> Diaz isn't a MW. Just because he took fights there before doesn't mean that he feels comfortable at that weight.
> 
> ...


You totally missed the point. In my original post I explained, these two have had beef since EliteXC. Interview:






Diaz claimed Miller was disrespecting him by making faces during his longwinded reply. 


Then on top of that, Mayhen (in what he describes as a mistake he didn't mean to make and wished he could do it differently) got into the camera's line of vision, Diaz punches him in the face and soccer kicks him.

Diaz started all of their beef. Mayhem tried to finish it. But Diaz refused, for whatever reasons he claims and his fans reiterate, he tried to fight Mayhem outside of a match, and when Mayhem tried to make one, he refused. 

There is no fighter deserving a 2 million dollar payday from the promotion. None.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Squirrelfighter said:


> You totally missed the point. In my original post I explained, these two have had beef since EliteXC. Interview:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I disagree with you on almost every account. Mayhem is starting beefs with a fighter in a smaller weight class and begging him to move up.

If Mayhem can not fight at WW. (so he claims) than he needs to shut his mouth.

NIck Diaz is the WW champ.

Who is Mayhem?? Who has Mayhem beaten?? He needs to quit begging already.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

If I got jumped by a dude and his homies, I would probably try to get a one on one fight too. And if they kept beating around the bush with demands, then I would say they were ducking me for sure. Just sayin. My morals run deeper than a job. Which is obviously the opposite for Diaz.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

stockton son!

love that interview, I like both guys, wish they'd fight. imo make it a 178-180lbs catch weight, diaz has fought around there a bunch of times and looked really good.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> I disagree with you on almost every account. Mayhem is starting beefs with a fighter in a smaller weight class and begging him to move up.
> 
> If Mayhem can not fight at WW. (so he claims) than he needs to shut his mouth.
> 
> ...


This is the usual Diaz fan rhetoric. You're being rediculous. I've destroyed your argument at every turn. Diaz is hiding from Miller. Try having a bit of empathy. 

Also: Mayhem is one of the most popular fighters in the sport. Henderson and Miller are the only people to come anywhere near stopping Shields in years, and he's the guy who puts on FOTN quality performances every time.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

You don't go calling out champs and saying they scared of moving up to face you. They are the champ, your the one who should be going down to face them.


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Okay so apparently everyone knows part of the story so I'll break it down.
> 
> It all began way back in EliteXC when Diaz won a fight and Mayhem was giving an interview, Mayhem was being his Mayhemy self behind Diaz while hwas talking, and Diaz took offense and did his whole blargy blargy blarg, I'll kick your ass etc.


Yeah, I remember that. It was weird:






I'm over the Mayhem vs. Diaz thing though. It would be different if they both held their division's belts for a long stretch like GSP and Silva. But Mayhem isn't a champion and can't even get a fight in Strikeforce for some reason. I'm guessing they blame him for the Nashville brawl, since he hasn't fought for them since that day.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

SmackyBear said:


> Yeah, I remember that. It was weird:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm glad he says he's over it. And I'd like to see him make the move to the UFC. I know White mentioned wanting him during the pre-GSP vs Koscheck Q&A. 

Miller vs the "Republitard" epic trashtalk FTW!


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Here's an idea: have Miller and Diaz as coaches for the next TUF.

I'd bet a lot of money they would fight during the show.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

limba said:


> Here's an idea: have *Miller and Diaz as coaches for the next TUF*.
> 
> I'd bet a lot of money they would fight during the show.


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## Relavate (Dec 21, 2010)

Miller would lose all cardio cuttin that far. Diaz barley has to cut to his weight so honeslty its a bad matchup on both ends. Diaz would be super fat and that weight and miller would be so dehydrated it wouldnt be funny. Do i see it happening? not anytime soon.


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## Mike28 (Aug 11, 2010)

To Rival the difference between GSP and Diaz is GSP hasnt fought at 183 before. Diaz has and to fight guys that were not as good IMO as Mayhem is. Mayhem got jumped and IMO deserves to get his hands on one of the guys who jumped him.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Squirrelfighter said:


> This is the usual Diaz fan rhetoric. You're being rediculous. I've destroyed your argument at every turn. Diaz is hiding from Miller. Try having a bit of empathy.
> 
> Also: Mayhem is one of the most popular fighters in the sport. Henderson and Miller are the only people to come anywhere near stopping Shields in years, and he's the guy who puts on FOTN quality performances every time.


Fan rhetoric? Destroyed my argument? 

You're reaching Squirrelfighter. 

As a matter of fact all I'm seeing from you here is a typical case of Diaz hate.

Nick Diaz the world WW champion on a 10 fight win streak consensus top 10. 170 lbs

Jason Mayhem Miller 3-2-1 in his last 6. 185lbs.

Miller refuses to move down. 

Yet Diaz is ducking him???

The entire situation destroys your argument.

It's okay to admit the fact that Miller is just begging for attention ...don't be scared homie


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Fan rhetoric? Destroyed my argument?
> 
> You're reaching Squirrelfighter.
> 
> ...


Come on Rival, Diaz threw punches you can't act like he didn't start this shit. Diaz started it and refuses to man up and see it through. Should Miller move down, well thats irrelevant, personally I think he is a small MW and if he feels lethargic at 170 then he is doing something wrong (And missing out on an opportunity to fight for a title) but that is neither here nor there. Diaz jumped a MW, has said he would fight at 185 before but now refuses to finish what he started. Miller is in no position to call out the WW champ, your right he hasn't doesn't shit to deserve to fight the SF WW champ. What he should have every right to do is step in the cage and fight the guy who jumped him and the fact that the guy who jumped him happens to be champ doesn't change that. Hell I think if Mayhem wants him to Melendez should have to go to MW and fight him to.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Come on Rival, Diaz threw punches you can't act like he didn't start this shit. Diaz started it and refuses to man up and see it through. Should Miller move down, well thats irrelevant, personally I think he is a small MW and if he feels lethargic at 170 then he is doing something wrong (And missing out on an opportunity to fight for a title) but that is neither here nor there. Diaz jumped a MW, has said he would fight at 185 before but now refuses to finish what he started. Miller is in no position to call out the WW champ, your right he hasn't doesn't shit to deserve to fight the SF WW champ. What he should have every right to do is step in the cage and fight the guy who jumped him and the fact that the guy who jumped him happens to be champ doesn't change that. Hell I think if Mayhem wants him to Melendez should have to go to MW and fight him to.


If he wants it so bad.... why not move down?? 

If he "can't" cry me a river.

Looks to me like he's ducking a primed Diaz.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

_RIVAL_ said:


> If he wants it so bad.... why not move down??
> 
> If he "can't" cry me a river.
> 
> Looks to me like he's ducking a primed Diaz.


Obviously he doesn't feel he can. He isn't the one who started this shit though, he didn't jump Diaz.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Obviously he doesn't feel he can. He isn't the one who started this shit though, he didn't jump Diaz.


He was a prick a few times before Diaz put a boot in his ass. 

Looks like he's throwing a tantrum.

If he was really out for revenge he'd have been working his dieting and body weight down.

If he's not moving to 170 he needs to quit crying period.

Diaz is moving forward with big fights. Miller is throwing a well publicised hissy fit.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

_RIVAL_ said:


> He was a prick a few times before Diaz put a boot in his ass.
> 
> Looks like he's throwing a tantrum.
> 
> ...


There is a huge difference between shit talk and you and your buddies jumping somebody. Fighters shit talk all the time but we have very few examples of fighters jumping each other. Diaz may not be scared but he started a fight and is not man enough to finish it. Regardless of his reasoning he is ducking Mayhem.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Toxic said:


> There is a huge difference between shit talk and you and your buddies jumping somebody. Fighters shit talk all the time but we have very few examples of fighters jumping each other. Diaz may not be scared but he started a fight and is not man enough to finish it. Regardless of his reasoning he is ducking Mayhem.


I disagree, fact is Nick DIaz is ducking nobody. Jason MIller was being his typical prick self. Walked into a Championship celebration and got rolled out of the cage.

Right wrong or indifferent. He'd mocked DIaz in the past and had his media fued.. when he brought his nonsense once again into the cage he got sent home with a few lumps. I don't condone it but he put himself in that situation.

Now if he cant make 170 to challenge the champion since he obviously feels so slighted he needs to move on with his life.. 

Or he can keep crying and ducking a fight at 170. Either way he's just as responsible for moving wieght classes as Nick Diaz is.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

At the end of the day either meet in the middle or stfu.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

_RIVAL_ said:


> I disagree, fact is Nick DIaz is ducking nobody. Jason MIller was being his typical prick self. Walked into a Championship celebration and got rolled out of the cage.
> 
> Right wrong or indifferent. He'd mocked DIaz in the past and had his media fued.. when he brought his nonsense once again into the cage he got sent home with a few lumps. I don't condone it but he put himself in that situation.
> 
> ...


Miller entering the cage has nothing to do with Diaz. If Shields felt slighted that would be between him an Miller not Nick. No excuses what so ever for what Diaz did and nothing even remotely justifies it. Diaz is completely ducking the fight not because I think he is scared but because its a high risk low reward fight for him. Losing to Miller would make Diaz look like shite, beating him means little to Diaz's career. I just feel after the bullshit Diaz has to own up to his actions, be a man and step up and handle his business.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Miller entering the cage has nothing to do with Diaz. If Shields felt slighted that would be between him an Miller not Nick. No excuses what so ever for what Diaz did and nothing even remotely justifies it. Diaz is completely ducking the fight not because I think he is scared but because its a high risk low reward fight for him. Losing to Miller would make Diaz look like shite, beating him means little to Diaz's career. I just feel after the bullshit Diaz has to own up to his actions, be a man and step up and handle his business.


LOL I really doubt he'd duck Miller at 170. He just got done fighting freaking Evangelista Cybog Santos.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Yea he's ducking him, but it's not because he's scared. It's because Diaz has nothing to gain from beating such a low ranked fighter that's not even in his weight class. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Mayhem fan, but he hasn't done anything to deserve a shot at Strikeforce's biggest name. 

Maybe after Mayhem gets a streak going he could fight Diaz, but by then all the hype would probably be dead.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> I disagree, fact is Nick DIaz is ducking nobody. Jason MIller was being his typical prick self. Walked into a Championship celebration and got rolled out of the cage.
> 
> Right wrong or indifferent. He'd mocked DIaz in the past and had his media fued.. when he brought his nonsense once again into the cage he got sent home with a few lumps. I don't condone it but he put himself in that situation.
> 
> ...


This entire post is disgusting. And so are you.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Squirrelfighter said:


> This entire post is disgusting. And so are you.


It's okay we don't have to agree.

Nobody insulted you. Don't insult me again.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> It's okay we don't have to agree.
> 
> Nobody insulted you. Don't insult me again.


Saying you disgust me is not an insult, its a statement of feeling based on your irrelevant Mayhem-bashing post.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Saying you disgust me is not an insult, its a statement of feeling based on your irrelevant Mayhem-bashing post.


Argue semantics if you will. It's an insult and any other insults towards myself or any other member of this board that doesnt agree with you will result in a trolling or insult infraction.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Argue semantics if you will. It's an insult and any other insults towards myself or any other member of this board that doesnt agree with you will result in a trolling or insult infraction.


"Further insults" you say? As in I would have to make another post which you consider to be insulting before I would be infracted? Seems that is a lie...


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Squirrelfighter said:


> "Further insults" you say? As in I would have to make another post which you consider to be insulting before I would be infracted? Seems that is a lie...


You received an infraction for the first. And you will receive an infraction for the next. No lie there. 


Now this conversation is deraling the thread. Drop the issue.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Come down guys please  Squirrel and Rival love ya both 

do it like McKeever and Roflcopter and Bobby do it in the Anderson vs. Diaz thread LMAO 

make it like being drunk :thumb02:


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Saying you disgust me is not an insult, its a statement of feeling based on your irrelevant Mayhem-bashing post.


Actually that is an insult. If you said his post disgusted you that would be different but saying somebody does crosses that line.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Actually that is an insult. If you said his post disgusted you that would be different but saying somebody does crosses that line.


you disgust me as well Toxic and Sensei?^^ what now


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> You received an infraction for the first. And you will receive an infraction for the next. No lie there.
> 
> 
> Now this conversation is deraling the thread. Drop the issue.


Its most assuredly not dropped. But I won't bring it up here any longer. 


As for the post you made which caused such an emotional reaction. I would like to address that from the context of a fellow debater disagreeing on the topic:

Mayhem most definitely has talked his fair share of smack. No one is suggesting Mayhem is coming off scott free here (at least I'm not). 

However, Diaz began the smacktalk war with his whole, "Mayhem is a bitch and he disrespected me during that interview." stuff. Anyone who's ever seen Mayhem knows how he acts. And a lot of people don't like it. It should have come as no surprise to Diaz, aggrevating as it was to him that Miller acted as he did. 

Miller responded, and the rest is history. No one is debating that Mayhem said some shitty things about Diaz, as Diaz said about Mayhem. The reason Diaz should move up, to a catchweight, not 185, for the fight is simple. The Nashville Brawl is only part of the reason. 

Mayhem entered the cage, something he admits was ill-advised, and propositioned Shields for a rematch in his usual insane none-of-this-makes-any-sense way. Melendez pushed him back, and Diaz punched him in the face. For no reason other than because he asked Shields for a rematch. Then, while he was on the ground, being assaulted by his camp, Diaz soccer kicked him in the face repeatedly. 

That alone is not reason enough to say he should fight Mayhem at catchweight. Before this incident, Diaz said he would gladly fight at 185 and wasn't afraid of anyone there. 

After the brawl Mayhem said he wanted to fight Diaz. Diaz said, he'd kick Mayhem's ass and wasn't afraid to fight him. 

Mayhem does everything in his power to set up the fight, even goes to the CEO and talks about it. Coker even said he wanted the fight to happen. 

Those four reasons, the brawl, Diaz claiming he'd fight anyone at 185, claiming he'd kick Mayhem's ass, and Coker being pro-Mayhem vs Diaz are all reasons why this fight SHOULD happen. And why Diaz should be willing to move to 182, as Mayhem offered. 

There are only two reaons why he wouldn't go:
*A.* Afraid to risk losing his image and perhaps threatening his position as champ.
or *B.* Afraid he'd lose the fight and somehow losing to Mayhem (in a fight that would undoubtably be fireworks) would ruin his image. 

Either way, his reasoning is based in fear. There's really no explanation for why this fight isn't happening besides Diaz ducking it.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Its most assuredly not dropped. But I won't bring it up here any longer.
> 
> 
> As for the post you made which caused such an emotional reaction. I would like to address that from the context of a fellow debater disagreeing on the topic:
> ...



lol @ Nick Diaz being afraid of Miller but he just stood with one of the most feared WW strikers in Paul Daley and wants to fight GSP.

Even Joe Rogan would say fear is not a factor with Nick Diaz.

Jason MIller is a left field fight in a different divison with nothing to gain for NIck and at a different weight class.

Nick is the Welterweight champion on a brutal win streak. Miller is 3-2-1 in his last 6 in an entirely different weight class. He's calling out DIaz but refuses to move down.

Sure Jason...


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> *lol @ Nick Diaz being afraid of Miller but he just stood with one of the most feared WW strikers in Paul Daley and wants to fight GSP.*
> 
> Even Joe Rogan would say fear is not a factor with Nick Diaz.
> 
> ...


Bold 1. This is an irrelevant piece of -explative- the events we are discussing occured before this event. As a matter of fact, Miller said, forget it I'll concern myself with middleweights before this event occurred. 

Bold 2. Records are rather immaterial in this discussion. Diaz suckerpunched Miller, said he'd kick his ass. Mayhem said bring it. However, Diaz did not bring it, he is scared, homie.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Bold 1. This is an irrelevant piece of -explative- the events we are discussing occured before this event. As a matter of fact, Miller said, forget it I'll concern myself with middleweights before this event occurred.
> 
> Bold 2. Records are rather immaterial in this discussion. Diaz suckerpunched Miller, said he'd kick his ass. Mayhem said bring it. However, Diaz did not bring it, he is scared, homie.


Now you're just defeating yourself. I stripped your argument. Poked holes in your logic and you still refuse you accept it. I'm sure Diaz feels pretty scared with his world ranking and Gold strap....lol 

You seem to be suffering from a huge case of Diaz hate... it happens.


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## chokeuout381 (Oct 11, 2010)

Diaz ain't ducking....he's the champ....he earned the belt by winning fights...I luv mayhem but he needs to build some type of streak before calling out anybody..diaz doesn't gotta do a damn thang except defend his belt against whoever zuffa wants him to fight


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Now you're just defeating yourself. I stripped your argument. Poked holes in your logic and you still refuse you accept it. I'm sure Diaz feels pretty scared with his world ranking and Gold strap....lol
> 
> You seem to be suffering from a huge case of Diaz hate... it happens.


See, this is what I don't like. 

I point out glaringly obvious flaws in your defense. 

Miller said, lets do this at 182, a weight less than what Diaz has already fought at. And Diaz refused to fight him. After he said he'd kick his ass, after he suckerpunched him and said he would fight anyone at 185. 

Its just a bunch of double-talk. Diaz has no leg to stand on.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

chokeuout381 said:


> Diaz ain't ducking....he's the champ....he earned the belt by winning fights...I luv mayhem but he needs to build some type of streak before calling out anybody..diaz doesn't gotta do a damn thang except defend his belt against whoever zuffa wants him to fight


Exactly.



Squirrelfighter said:


> Its just a bunch of double-talk. Diaz has no leg to stand on.


He actually has two legs with a big gold belt hanging at the top of them...

Maybe him and MIller can unify some titles in a super fight.... Miller just needs to be good enough to win one first... Is he even a top 20 Middleweight???


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> He actually has two legs with a big gold belt hanging at the top of them...
> 
> Maybe him and MIller can unify some titles in a super fight.... Miller just needs to be good enough to win one first... Is he even a top 20 Middleweight???



Arguing this topic with you is obviously pointless. 

Instead of staying on topic, you're following the same path every other Diaz fan follows. 

"he's so great it doesn't matter he started it and backed out, he's too badass for it to matter he said he'd kick Miller's ass, but won't step up and do it."

On top of that, your definition of "ducking" is so skewed it makes this pointless.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Arguing this topic with you is obviously pointless.
> 
> Instead of staying on topic, you're following the same path every other Diaz fan follows.
> 
> ...


I bet in your eyes DIaz fails hard too doesn't he...  

His title is a shiny gold sort of the same color of that pic of Homers head you posted...

Doh!!!!!!


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

I wouldn't blame Diaz for not accepting the fight. This is a professional career, not street fighting. Taking months out of his career to settle some ridiculous feud with nothing but foolish pride to gain is a bad business move. Diaz is in the prime of his career, he needs to be fighting top guys that will add to his resume while he still has this momentum. He is the strike force welterweight champion that is on a great winning streak, and going out of his way to fight Miller would just be back tracking at this point in my opinion. Taking irrelevant fights to just settle foolish rivalries just gives the haters more reason to dislike him. I'm a fan of Diaz, and that doesn't look good for his image either. It would be best for the MMA world if we forgot that brawl ever happened.

For the record, I doubt that Diaz is ducking Miller because of fear. Every time Miller he fights a legit contender, he loses. None of his skills are outstanding either. He's a solid fighter, but he is by no means among the elite at this point. This would be a good match up for Diaz. He probably doesn't fear any mixed martial artists, and if he did, I doubt Miller would be the guy that he would.

I know some people will continue to say "well he ran his mouth, so he should feel obligated to back it up.", but I'll just repeat myself by saying this is not street fighting, it's mixed martial arts. This is a career. Pride shouldn't get in the way of what's important. Fighting Miller isn't that important, and going out of his weight class again and taking months out of his life to prepare for it is just unnecessary, especially when he gains little. Of course that is just my opinion. I guess I look at things in more of a long term and business sense kind of way.


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## cursedbat (Apr 11, 2011)

Why does it seem like people are always trying to find some way to discredit some fighters.These threads should just be called I dont like this guy and I'm mad hes doing so well. The last thing Diaz is is scared, tentative, or unauthentic.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Now you're just defeating yourself. I stripped your argument. Poked holes in your logic and you still refuse you accept it. I'm sure Diaz feels pretty scared with his world ranking and Gold strap....lol
> 
> You seem to be suffering from a huge case of Diaz hate... it happens.


Rival you're wrong as ****. You haven't poked holes in anything but Nates rubber hoping he'll make you preggo.

Diaz kicks Miller in the face after a cheap shot, says he'll kick HIS ass and any other fighter at 185, and then backs out of a fight at 182? Why the eff are you defending Diaz?

I for one think Diaz would win(check my posts)if it happened but he's ducking. No two ways about it. And the infraction for SF was chickenshit too btw.

Antagonzing someone with rude remarks and insults is no way for a mod to behave:thumbsdown: Just keep talking about Nates minor league "Gold Strap" if it makes you feel superior:laugh:


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

RustyRenegade said:


> Rival you're wrong as ****. You haven't poked holes in anything but Nates rubber hoping he'll make you preggo.
> 
> Diaz kicks Miller in the face after a cheap shot, says he'll kick HIS ass and any other fighter at 185, and then backs out of a fight at 182? Why the eff are you defending Diaz?
> 
> ...


Good thing we're talking about Nick not Nate... I can't afford another kid with the economy the way it is.. 

As for the "why are you defending Diaz" question... because I can see exactly where he's coming from in not wanting to move to a heavier division when the guy who's calling him out refuses to move to 170 where Nick is at.. period.

As for the "antagonizing" remark.... I won't be swayed by an opinionated poster in my opinion when the base of the argument is saying "he's scared".

Why should Nick move?? He's the champ. He holds the keys. He's proven. Miller has shown to this point he's simply average in his last few fights.

As far as how a "mod should behave" this is coming from a poster who's entire way of addressing this issue was started with an insult... 

The most amusing thing in this entire conversation is that when somebody doesn't agree with some of your opinions your first response is petty as an elementry insult in the hopes that somebody discovers some form of wit within it...

Interesting that in this debate some of your frusterations boil over to remarks such has "hopes he'll get you preggo"... 

Lets keep this discussion about MMA and back off of personal attacks becuase you don't agree with somebody.


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## Fade (Dec 12, 2010)

This thread fails.

Diaz cheapshots Mayhem, states he will fight anyone at 185, Mayhem calls him out at 182, Diaz says no. He is avoiding it.

I don't think Diaz is afraid to fight Mayhem, he is just afraid to lose.


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

Sorry JP, but Diaz ducked him..... and as for no need for him to move up.... well if KJ Noons said no i wont fight at 170 im a 155'er i beat you once already make 155 now... i garundamntee we would be hearing that KJ ducked the fight. Fact: Nick has said many times i will fight anyone who thinks they can beat me, wether its 170 or 185. Another Fact: Diaz turned down a fight with Mayhem. that to me sounds like a fight duck.

and yes Nick has a belt.... from a 2nd rate promotion, and really i dont think hes fought many if any top 10 guys. Nick is tough and very talented top 10 guy, but hes been fighting much lesser competition and turned down a fight with someone he already sucker punched and called out.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Maybe the reason Diaz doesn't want to fight Miller is because they aren't in high school anymore and instead are in a respectable sport where you need to make the best decisions for your career, not your "cred".

Let's break this down career wise:

Nick - WW Champion, long win streak, just fought one of the most dangers strikers in the division (much more dangers than Miller ever wishes he could be), and finished him in the first round. He's in a great spot, he gets only top contenders, he gets paid well, and he's the champion.

Miller - Has a not so good record with his last 6 fights being pretty sad, is in a weight class above him, needs to get a big hyped fight becuase, let's face it, he's not going anywhere with his career and fighting Nick would be a great cash for him right now, and career wise gives Diaz absolutely nothing but to say "I beat an unranked, unimpressive fighter who isn't even in my division, yay!".

This isn't high school, Diaz is looking at his career and future, not some high school hissy fit fight with someone.

Yes, Diaz was bad when he got in the ring and hit Miller, it's retarded and personally he should have had even harsher punishment, IMO. However, since that has happened, Diaz (a human being trying to have a successful career in a professional sport), thinks that it's probably dumb to move up in weight and fight a guy that literally, if he won, got him nothing in return but to say he beat a middle of the road fighter who isn't even ranked.

Are we talking about grown men here in a professional sport, or are we talking about children fighting in high school, when 1 guy calls someone out or does something to him, then decides to not fight later on, is automatically scared and afraid?

I'm not a Miller or Nick fan, btw, I dislike both guys about the same, but it's very, very, very basic common sense to see where Nick is coming from.


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

M.C said:


> Maybe the reason Diaz doesn't want to fight Miller is because they aren't in high school anymore and instead are in a respectable sport where you need to make the best decisions for your career, not your "cred".
> 
> Let's break this down career wise:
> 
> ...


i just have a hard time believing that the same Nick Diaz who got into a fight in the cage after a fight not once, but twice, tells people he doesnt care what the commission says and will continue to smoke pot, and bitches about not getting paid enough as it is right after he signs a new contract.... this Nick Diaz now cares about his future in the sport? and the person he first fought, when this was going down between Mayhem and Diaz, was Evangelista Cyborg Santos and his all impressive 18-13 record..... then fights Paul Daley who yes is a great striker, but that is all. Diaz even fought with the dumbest gameplan ever in standing with Daley.... 

BUT he wont take a fight with Mayhem, who yes i think does do something for his career, would it be like beating GSP or Silva? no. But it would be a highly hyped and highly watched fight. and now with Zuffa behind it to promote the shit out of it and maybe throw it on a PPV, Nick should now be begging for this fight. but no... this wouldnt be good for his career....


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

JuggNuttz said:


> i just have a hard time believing that the same Nick Diaz who got into a fight in the cage after a fight not once, but twice, tells people he doesnt care what the commission says and will continue to smoke pot, and bitches about not getting paid enough as it is right after he signs a new contract.... this Nick Diaz now cares about his future in the sport? and the person he first fought, when this was going down between Mayhem and Diaz, was Evangelista Cyborg Santos and his all impressive 18-13 record..... then fights Paul Daley who yes is a great striker, but that is all. Diaz even fought with the dumbest gameplan ever in standing with Daley....
> 
> BUT he wont take a fight with Mayhem, who yes i think does do something for his career, would it be like beating GSP or Silva? no. But it would be a highly hyped and highly watched fight. and now with Zuffa behind it to promote the shit out of it and maybe throw it on a PPV, Nick should now be begging for this fight. but no... this wouldnt be good for his career....


Why would Nick beg for a fight against an unranked, unimpressive fighter in a weight class above him?

Career wise, it makes no sense. It might sell well, but he's already making a lot of money fighting contenders, and he doesn't have to move up, or fight an unranked fighter that won't do anything for his career except have a win over an average fighter on his resume.

Yes, Nick's gameplay for Daley was dumb, standing up with him. However, he wasn't SCARED was he? He wasn't scared to go up against one of the most dangerous strikers in the whole division, stood his ground standing with him and even finished him with strikes. Why would Nick be scared or want to duck a guy who is less worthy competition, unranked, unimpressive and generally holds 0 skills that can match him? He wouldn't.

It's as simple as not being a good career move. A champion moving up in weight to fight a middle of the road guy who is unranked and does nothing for his career as a whole.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

To be honest, Cyborg should have been nowhere near the title picture and is very lowly ranked in my opinion. The guy was 18-13 and his best win is Marius Žaromskis. Diaz literally had 0 to gain from fighting Cyborg.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> To be honest, Cyborg should have been nowhere near the title picture and is very lowly ranked in my opinion. The guy was 18-13 and his best win is Marius Žaromskis. Diaz literally had 0 to gain from fighting Cyborg.


Except another W on his padded record.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

HitOrGetHit said:


> To be honest, Cyborg should have been nowhere near the title picture and is very lowly ranked in my opinion. The guy was 18-13 and his best win is Marius Žaromskis. Diaz literally had 0 to gain from fighting Cyborg.


He was the next contender and next in line to fight for the title. It's not as if Diaz moved up in weight and made the effort to go after such a guy, that was who was set up to fight for his title.

Going after an average fighter who is a weight class above you when you are the champion makes no sense.

It would be like GSP moving up in weight to go after Chris Leben. Why in the world would the WW champion move up to fight a middle of the road guy like Chris? Does this even make the slightest bit of sense?

No champion of a division moves up to fight a middle of the road guy who isn't ranked, for any reason at all.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

M.C said:


> *He was the next contender and next in line to fight for the title.* It's not as if Diaz moved up in weight and made the effort to go after such a guy, that was who was set up to fight for his title.
> 
> Going after an average fighter who is a weight class above you when you are the champion makes no sense.
> 
> ...


Really? So what you're saying is in Strikeforce, fighting once in a weightclass in your entire career is sufficient to win a top contender spot? 

Or is it more likely their champ wanted to get paid, so they picked someone at random who'd just won at 170 to fight him who he could beat?

As a matter of fact, Santos is even lower ranked than Miller, by a significant margin.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Really? So what you're saying is in Strikeforce, fighting once in a weightclass in your entire career is sufficient to win a top contender spot?
> 
> Or is it more likely their champ wanted to get paid, so they picked someone at random who'd just won at 170 to fight him who he could beat?
> 
> As a matter of fact, Santos is even lower ranked than Miller, by a significant margin.


It doesn't matter why Santos was a contender, the fact is he was in the weight class that Nick holds a championship belt in.

Nick is the WW champion, he fights WW contenders, he fights at WW. Why would he move up to fight an average, unimpressive middle of the road fighter in Miller? It does nothing for his career, the same as GSP moving up to fight Leben would do nothing for his career.

This isn't that complicated, it's actually very simple. Champions get 0 out of moving up in weight for 1 fight against a middle of the road guy who is unranked and unimpressive.

If the contender at the weight he is champion in isn't impressive (Hardy when he fought GSP for example), that is completely irrelevant, as it's the champions job to fight whomever the company says he should (in his weight class), whether he deserves it or not.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

A fight with Miller would most certainly benefit his career. Anderson silva fighting a weight above is a big reason why people rank him #1 over GSP. Miller is also a good fighter (much more credible than Cyborg ever has been), and he is a very well known fighter.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

HitOrGetHit said:


> A fight with Miller would most certainly benefit his career. Anderson silva fighting a weight above is a big reason why people rank him #1 over GSP. Miller is also a good fighter (much more credible than Cyborg ever has been), and he is a very well known fighter.


Chris Leben is a very well known fighter, in fact, I'd place money that more people know about Leben than they do Miller. Does this mean that it's a good idea for GSP to move up and fight him?

Anderson Silva fighting Forrest is the only reason people like that he moved up, why? Cause forrest just lost his championship belt, he was the UFC LHW champion before he fought Anderson, that's a huge, major fight and a major fighter to be fighting.

There's nothing to gain from moving up and fighting an unimpressive, unranked fighter at a weight class above your own when you are champion, it does nothing for your career.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

M.C said:


> It doesn't matter why Santos was a contender, the fact is he was in the weight class that Nick holds a championship belt in.
> 
> Nick is the WW champion, he fights WW contenders, he fights at WW. Why would he move up to fight an average, unimpressive middle of the road fighter in Miller? It does nothing for his career, the same as GSP moving up to fight Leben would do nothing for his career.
> 
> ...


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Squirrelfighter said:


>


Yup, using common sense and logic, it normally works for me.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

M.C said:


> Chris Leben is a very well known fighter, in fact, I'd place money that more people know about Leben than they do Miller. Does this mean that it's a good idea for GSP to move up and fight him?


They are in entirely different situations. GSP didn't jump Leben with other professional fighters. Yes, it was stupid for Mayhem to walk into the cage and confront Shields, but he did nothing to provoke an attack. 



> Anderson Silva fighting Forrest is the only reason people like that he moved up, why? Cause forrest just lost his championship belt, he was the UFC LHW champion before he fought Anderson, that's a huge, major fight and a major fighter to be fighting.


People were going nuts when he demolished James Irvin as well.It was the fact that he could be successful in 2 divisions.



> There's nothing to gain from moving up and fighting an unimpressive, unranked fighter at a weight class above your own when you are champion, it does nothing for your career.


And there was ZERO to gain from Cyborg. Cyborg was unranked and is a nobody essentially. Diaz fighting Miller does more for Diaz's career than defending his title against Cyborg 100 times would do.

And why is everyone saying Mayhem is middle of the line. The guy is 24-7 with 20 stoppages. He came EXTREMELY close to tapping Shields. He defeated Tim Kennedy and has stopped Sakuraba, Lawler and Kang.

Mayhem may not be the best MW in the world, but he is better than you are giving him credit for.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

HitOrGetHit said:


> They are in entirely different situations. GSP didn't jump Leben with other professional fighters. Yes, it was stupid for Mayhem to walk into the cage and confront Shields, but he did nothing to provoke an attack.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What happened in the ring has nothing to do with it. It's something that happened, it's over and done. Just because that situation happened doesn't mean Nick should move up and fight him, so no, it's not different, it's the exact same situation. GSP moving up to fight Leban is exactly the same as Nick moving up to fight Miller, it's stupid.

Cyborg was in his division, he was the contender, he was given the title shot by the company. As a champion, you don't turn down fights, you fight whomever the company wants you to fight, that's how it's always been, always. GSP fought Hardy, Anderson fought lutter, Maia, etc. Champions fight whomever is put infront of them, it's always been that way, why are you bringing it up?

As for Miller being better, where do you rank Miller at 185? I can't think of a single person ranking him in the top 10. In fact, I just googled Sherdog, MMAweekly, and Fightmatrix, and they don't even rank him in top 15, much less top 10. Why is a WW champion going to move up a fight a guy who isn't even ranked top 15 in his weight class? In fact, Fightmatrix has him ranked at #40. Yeah, #40.

http://www.fightmatrix.com/mma-ranks/middleweight/

Please explain to me how it makes sense for the WW champion to move up and fight someone like this? I'd really, really like to see the logic behind it.


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

Fighting Mayhem would do the one thing he seems to care about right now, get him paid well. I imagine he could get a pretty decent bonus for agreeing to move up a bit in weight and allow this fight to happen. From every interview I have heard lately that seems to be his focus.

That being said I agree with others that there is nothing to gain from fighting Miller at 185, career wise. He has pretty much cleaned out all the top contenders in his division, maybe it's time to move up and try his hand at 185, he already has two wins in that division. Not necessarily Miller but maybe one of the other top guys at 185.

Also Miller should quit worrying about Diaz and try to get in the mix at his own division. If he could get the belt at 185, don't think that can happen but it would seem to be a better thing to put your energy into. With Diaz being champ at 170 and if he had the belt at 185, then that could be a really big pay day for both to make that fight happen.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Just to preface, I am a nick Diaz fan as well. I love watching him fight. I love how real he is.



M.C said:


> What happened in the ring has nothing to do with it. It's something that happened, it's over and done. Just because that situation happened doesn't mean Nick should move up and fight him, so no, it's not different, it's the exact same situation. GSP moving up to fight Leban is exactly the same as Nick moving up to fight Miller, it's stupid.


This is what I mean. Diaz fights Mayhem when his teammates are there. Diaz even threw a waterbottle at Mayhem backstage a few events later, but guess who was there? Security to stop it. People question Diaz ducking because he pulls these unprofessional stunts when people are around, but when it comes down to fighting Mayhem one on one, Diaz won't do it.

Mayhem is campaigning or was campaigning so hard because of the events that took place. Diaz is hiding behind the it won't benefit my career excuse. I mean c'mon, you are going to jump someone and then refuse them a fair fight. Like I stated earlier, maybe my morals run deeper than a career. But it makes Diaz looks like a bitch to be honest.



> Cyborg was in his division, he was the contender, he was given the title shot by the company. As a champion, you don't turn down fights, you fight whomever the company wants you to fight, that's how it's always been, always. GSP fought Hardy, Anderson fought lutter, Maia, etc. Champions fight whomever is put infront of them, it's always been that way, why are you bringing it up?


Cyborg as a contender was completely fabricated by SF. He has one decent win his entire career. His record is just barely above .500. AND it was his WW debut. That is the stupidest thing I have heard from SF next to Fedor losing 2 straight and somehow earning a fight with Henderson.



> As for Miller being better, where do you rank Miller at 185? I can't think of a single person ranking him in the top 10. In fact, I just googled Sherdog, MMAweekly, and Fightmatrix, and they don't even rank him in top 15, much less top 10. Why is a WW champion going to move up a fight a guy who isn't even ranked top 15 in his weight class? In fact, Fightmatrix has him ranked at #40. Yeah, #40.
> 
> http://www.fightmatrix.com/mma-ranks/middleweight/
> 
> Please explain to me how it makes sense for the WW champion to move up and fight someone like this? I'd really, really like to see the logic behind it.


In SF, Miller is probably one of the better fighters at MW. I mean rankings are speculative. Even Nick Diaz doesn't have the most superb record in terms of competition regardless of ranking. Daley, Shamrock, Lawler, Žaromskis. Those are his best wins. People are talking about how he would lower his level of competition so much to fight Miller when in reality, Miller fits right in with the competition Diaz has.

Diaz is only ranked high because of his champ status in SF. But people like Fitch and Penn who are ranked behind him have much more impressive resume's than Diaz has.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

HitOrGetHit said:


> Just to preface, I am a nick Diaz fan as well. I love watching him fight. I love how real he is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It doesn't matter what happens back stage or in their personal life or if this or that happens, the fact is, Miller isn't even ranked top 15, and I can (and did) give sources, but also a source that ranks him at #40, and no WW champion is going to move up at fight a guy that is so low ranked, it's just stupid. It makes aboslutely 0 sense career wise, I mean none, zip, nada. There's no "excuse", it's a fact, there's 0 that he gains from the fight, literally nothing that aids his career.

This isn't high school, you don't get into an argument with someone or dislike someone or this happens or that happens, and then that means you have to fight this guy in a professional sport. It simply does not work this way. They are grown men in a professional sport, they have careers to worry about, and Nick moving up to fight a guy ranked between #20-40 does absolutely nothing for your career, that's a fact, it's not even an opinion.

As for miller being one of the better fighters at MW, I completely, 100% disagree, as does almost all ranking systems.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Like I said, rankings are speculative as seen by that exact source. I mean who has Diaz even fought to make him ranked higher than BJ Penn or John Fitch? His record is nowhere near as good as theirs. He is only ranked that high because he is a champ in Strikeforce. Diaz's record is full of lower tier fighters, and a few middle of the road fighters. He has never beaten any top fighter.

As for Mayhem being one of the better fighrers at MW, maybe not wordwide, but in the shallow SF divisions, he is. He has solid victories, finished all but 4 of his victories, and came pretty damn close to beating Shields and winning the MW title.

I pointed out that Diaz provokng Mayhem because this whole argument is centered around people defending an unprofessional athletes professional career. If Diaz doesn't want the fight, then fine, I don't really care one way or the other, but he needs to shut the hell up, stop provoking Mayhem, and move on. Otherwise yes it will continue looking like he is ducking Mayhem.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

HitOrGetHit said:


> Like I said, rankings are speculative as seen by that exact source. I mean who has Diaz even fought to make him ranked higher than BJ Penn or John Fitch? His record is nowhere near as good as theirs. He is only ranked that high because he is a champ in Strikeforce. Diaz's record is full of lower tier fighters, and a few middle of the road fighters. He has never beaten any top fighter.
> 
> As for Mayhem being one of the better fighrers at MW, maybe not wordwide, but in the shallow SF divisions, he is. He has solid victories, finished all but 4 of his victories, and came pretty damn close to beating Shields and winning the MW title.
> 
> I pointed out that Diaz provokng Mayhem because this whole argument is centered around people defending an unprofessional athletes professional career. If Diaz doesn't want the fight, then fine, I don't really care one way or the other, but he needs to shut the hell up, stop provoking Mayhem, and move on. Otherwise yes it will continue looking like he is ducking Mayhem.


So, because two guys are arguing and not getting along, and one of them (a champion) doesn't feel the need to fight the other (a guy who isn't even ranked in his division as a whole), means he's ducking him? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? I mean, just sit and think about that for a moment.

Miller isn't "maybe" not one of the best at MW, in reality, there's no one who ranks him anywhere close to top 15. You can say rankings are speculative, but when almost everyone + ranking sites hold him not even in the top 15, you can bet your money it's accurate.

Nick doesn't have to shut up or anything, considering Miller is doing his fair share of talking crap. Again, just because two guys don't get along and talk shit doesn't mean they have to fight, especially when one of them is a champion, and the other is a weight class above and isn't even ranked top 15 in the weight class.

Seriously, just think about that.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

M.C said:


> So, because two guys are arguing and not getting along, and one of them (a champion) doesn't feel the need to fight the other (a guy who isn't even ranked in his division as a whole), means he's ducking him? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? I mean, just sit and think about that for a moment.


No I said it looks like Nick is ducking because of the fact that he runs his mouth about Miller and provokes Miller but will not even meet Miller half way to fight him. That is why it looks like Diaz is ducking.



> Miller isn't "maybe" not one of the best at MW, in reality, there's no one who ranks him anywhere close to top 15. You can say rankings are speculative, but when almost everyone + ranking sites hold him not even in the top 15, you can bet your money it's accurate.


Rankings aren't even based on fighters wins anymore. My example was Nick. He hasn't even beaten one of the top "ranked" WW's yet he is ranked 3rd best in the world. The rankings are contradicting itself. Diaz is ranked higher than people who have beaten better fighters than Nick has beaten. Makes 0 sense.



> Nick doesn't have to shut up or anything, considering Miller is doing his fair share of talking crap. Again, just because two guys don't get along and talk shit doesn't mean they have to fight, especially when one of them is a champion, and the other is a weight class above and isn't even ranked top 15 in the weight class.
> 
> Seriously, just think about that.


Like I said, the whole reason this thread exists, is because Diaz fires back and provokes, but won't even meet in the middle of their weights to fight. I mean really? Who talks crap, provokes fights, with no intentions of fighting that person?


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

M.C said:


> It doesn't matter why Santos was a contender, the fact is he was in the weight class that Nick holds a championship belt in.
> 
> Nick is the WW champion, he fights WW contenders, he fights at WW. Why would he move up to fight an average, unimpressive middle of the road fighter in Miller? It does nothing for his career, the same as GSP moving up to fight Leben would do nothing for his career.
> 
> ...


you mean like a Scott Smith or over the hill Frank Shamrock? oh wait.....

when Silva moved up he fought James Irving... what would that do for his career? and he didnt even fight him on a PPV he did that on a spike show!! what does that tell me? Anderson Silva accually WILL fight anyone they throw infront of him, and not just say it.

and that fight matrix is sooooooo bullshit its not even funny. like did you seriously even look at that list?!


i do find your logic flawed.... you keep saying it does nothing for his career to move up and fight a high profile fight against a mid tier guy. I'm saying its more beneficial to move up and fight a high profile against a mid tier fighter than to stay at his weight and defend his title against mid to low tier fighters. lets look at his last 7 fights and their rankings on your Fight Matrix shall we?

Paul Daley #14
Evangelista Santos NR
KJ Noons NR
Hayato Sakurai NR
Marius Zaromskis #33
Scott Smith #45
Frank Shamrock NR

so last 7 fights he has fought 1 top 15, 4 unranked fighters, and 2 not in the top 30...... thats gonna do wonders for your career.....


Still think he has nothing to gain from fighting Mayhem?


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

If people want to pretend he's ducking miller that's fine but putting all the drama aside, you can't "duck" a fighter that's not in your weight class period imo.


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

slapshot said:


> If people want to pretend he's ducking miller that's fine but putting all the drama aside, you can't "duck" a fighter that's not in your weight class period imo.


even if he has gone up in weight twice before? and called out fighters in that same weightclass of the guy he is ducking?


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

slapshot said:


> If people want to pretend he's ducking miller that's fine but putting all the drama aside, you can't "duck" a fighter that's not in your weight class period imo.


Sure you can. All you do is keep acting like you will fight him, provoke him, run your mouth to him, but then beat around the bush when it comes time to sign a fight with him.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

He's the champion and there is no reason for him to want to fight Miller at some other weight. 

Miller says he wants to fight but not at 170, Diaz says he'll fight but only at 170.

This thread reeks of conjecture, Miller is the one making all the noise about fighting. Dont tell me he cant drop to 170 because he can just like Diaz could move up but the difference that matters between the two fighters is Nick has a belt, they both talk shit, they both are high quality fighters and they both want a advantage. 

And whats so special about Miller that Nick or Strikeforce for that matter should make a exception for him and have a champion fight and a catch weight? 

Why even have weight classes if you circumvent them for "brawl retribution"? 



HitOrGetHit said:


> Sure you can. All you do is keep acting like you will fight him, provoke him, run your mouth to him, but then beat around the bush when it comes time to sign a fight with him.


Sounds more like the way miller is acting. He just wants to come out looking better and grab as much PR as he can.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well there was the grudge match because of Mayham butting in at Nashville. So a catchweight could be in order. Maybe Zuffa doesn't want Mayham.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

I can't imagine a promotion not wanting Mayham. I mean, it's delicious and can be put on sandwiches, salads, omelettes, or just fried with eggs.

Mayham is very versatile and it would be a good weapon in any culinary arsenal:thumb02:


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Mayham is certainly entertaining I will agree. However, I disagree that he is delicious. But I will also agree that he is versatile.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

RustyRenegade said:


> I can't imagine a promotion not wanting Mayham. I mean, it's delicious and can be put on sandwiches, salads, omelettes, or just fried with eggs.
> 
> Mayham is very versatile and it would be a good weapon in any culinary arsenal:thumb02:


This post has made me hungry.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, it did sound appetizing. I wonder what kind've cook Mayham is.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Mayham is certainly entertaining I will agree. However, I disagree that he is delicious. But I will also agree that he is versatile.


You must not be cooking it right:thumbsdown:


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Cooking is cooking.


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Moving back and fourth between weight messes with your endurance and training methods to go up 13 lbs a division especially with all the styles of training that NIck does including his triathalons and so fourth can just be too difficult for him, and hell maybe he doesn't want to cater to MIller.
> 
> The question is why has Miller not made 170??? Is he ducking Diaz at that weight??


Why would Miller be duckign Diaz at that weight when Diaz fought 3 times at catch weight at 180 which can be considered half way. He hated Shamrock and fought him at a catch weight fight so why all of the sudden is Diaz' weight the problem?

Its more bullshit from Diaz to get out of that fight


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Sousa said:


> Why would Miller be duckign Diaz at that weight when Diaz fought 3 times at catch weight at 180 which can be considered half way. He hated Shamrock and fought him at a catch weight fight so why all of the sudden is Diaz' weight the problem?
> 
> Its more bullshit from Diaz to get out of that fight


If Miller wants the fight he needs to drop down to 170 or quit crying. NIck doesnt have to cater to MIller. Regardless of any smack talk.

Jasons just a journeyman trying to get some publicity.


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

_RIVAL_ said:


> If Miller wants the fight he needs to drop down to 170 or quit crying. NIck doesnt have to cater to MIller. Regardless of any smack talk.
> 
> Jasons just a journeyman trying to get some publicity.


again JP, im gonna say, Nick has had no problem in the past taking fights at that weight, says all the damn time he will fight anyone who thinks they can beat him at either 170 or 185, and says he wants to fight Anderson Silva.... yet he gets a challenge from a guy he sucker punched, and NOW weight is an issue? if Mayhem was such a scrub and not worth Nick's time...... dont you think Nick would love to make the money AND shut him the **** up???? but again i know... im using logic while talking about Nick Diaz who has no idea what that word even means.....

Nick ducked the fight plain and simple. Nick likes to bitch and moan about money... yet he passed up probbaly one of the biggest money fights so far in his career.....he be scared homie.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well now we know this fight isn't going to happen cause Mayham isn't with Strikeforce anymore. He recently signed with the UFC. So as I've said there is no more reason to go that route.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

Mayhem would take Diaz down and bully him, and Diaz knows it.

Mayhem would do what a high number of UFC fighters would do to Diaz - out wrestle/grapple him.

I don't think Diaz is even top 10 in reality. Here's a quick list of UFC WWs who would beat him:

GSP
Alves
Fitch
Kos
Hughes
Penn
Shields
Stun Gun

Others who most likely would...

Ellenberger
Pyle
Condit
Kampmann
Sanchez

etc...

None of these guys are stupid enough to continue to get out toughed and out peppered, they'd all just dump him on his back and elbow his face for 3 rounds if necessary. He might sub a small number of them, but mostly it would be decision losses.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Either that or Diaz would out box him. Not to mention Diaz would never fight Shields. I do agree that most of those guys could beat Diaz but I have to disagree that Diaz is not top 10.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Hiro said:


> Mayhem would take Diaz down and bully him, and Diaz knows it.
> 
> Mayhem would do what a high number of UFC fighters would do to Diaz - out wrestle/grapple him.
> 
> ...


Dont do drugs!


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

:sarcastic07:

Someone call The Reem to take that thing away...


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