# Fitch out of Penn fight



## TheWulf (May 14, 2010)

> Jon Fitch has been forced out of his upcoming bout against B.J. Penn at UFC 132 due to an injury sustained during training.
> 
> Fitch’s removal from the fight was confirmed to MMAWeekly.com by sources close to the situation on Wednesday.
> 
> ...


http://ht.ly/4pVFN


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Alves if he finishes Story with no major injury?


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

TheWulf said:


> http://ht.ly/4pVFN


Roflz I didn't even know they set a date already for a rematch or I must have forgot. Seriously though who wants to watch Yawn Fitch. He should have lost. I hope he's the first winning UFC fighter to get cut.

PS: I've always wanted to see how BJ fairs againts Alves. That would be very interesting although an Almeida matchup (battle of the BJJ) would be kinda cool. But Alves would be wicked. I'm not sure if BJ can withstand that much power though. Th


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Thank God!!!!, BJ needs a confidence booster after that third round. BJ has the skills but I was pretty worried Fitch broke him mentally and that it would carry over.


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## Prolific (May 7, 2009)

I say let rumble face him. i think that could be interesting on the feet.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Prolific said:


> I say let rumble face him. i think that could be interesting on the feet.


Rumble would not be fair. He's gonna do what he did to Hardy. The size difference is far too much to overcome. At least with Alves he'll kick it standing.


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## TheWulf (May 14, 2010)

Prolific said:


> I say let rumble face him. i think that could be interesting on the feet.


So a LHW fighting a LW. That would look crazy.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

BJ would pick Rumble apart. There is a huge difference between an explosive puncher and a technician like BJ. After what BJ was able to do for two rounds to Fitch I honestly feel that outside Fitch/GSP/Shields there is not a WW that stands a chance against Penn.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Noooo


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## Steroid Steve (Oct 1, 2010)

Prolific said:


> I say let rumble face him. i think that could be interesting on the feet.


Penn vs. Johnson is borderline freakshow matchup.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Alves if he finishes Story with no major injury?


I'd love that. Although i want to see Penn get a W and boos his confidence i don't want this to be against my boy Alves.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

this means penn/fitch 2 can be scrapped and fitch can get shields after gsp kills him. Also i wanted a different fight for bj at 170, like kos/rumble/kampmann.

so..


good good


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Would Condit be ready by then?


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## stageboss (Mar 24, 2011)

Rumor is, Condit IS the replacement. The Stun Gun fight was just a rumor. Bout agreements for Penn/Condit went out on Monday according to someone who trains at Jackson's.

Gonna be an amazing fight if true.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Condit vs Penn will be a very exciting fight and will be a definite W for Penn. 

I don't know about anyone else but after seeing Penn come out and take Fitch to the wall and put him on the ground I though "man, Penn is going to be a monster at WW."


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## stageboss (Mar 24, 2011)

Now that Penn has reincorporated offensive wrestling into his game plan, it's gonna be REAL interesting to see him work his top control vs an opponent with such a dangerous guard like Condit has.

I think this fight just got 100x more interesting.

When Fitch comes back, just give him the loser of GSP/Shields.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

stageboss said:


> Rumor is, Condit IS the replacement. The Stun Gun fight was just a rumor. Bout agreements for Penn/Condit went out on Monday according to someone who trains at Jackson's.
> 
> Gonna be an amazing fight if true.


I haven't heard any of this but Penn would viscously maul Kim so bad Kim would likely never leave Korea again.


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## stageboss (Mar 24, 2011)

Toxic --

Penn would be facing Condit, not Kim.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

stageboss said:


> Rumor is, Condit IS the replacement. The Stun Gun fight was just a rumor. Bout agreements for Penn/Condit went out on Monday according to someone who trains at Jackson's.
> 
> Gonna be an amazing fight if true.


Source? Condit vs Penn is SOO much more interesting than Fitch. Goddmamn that would be a sick fight.


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## bjjmatmop (Nov 29, 2010)

Condit vs. Penn is the better fight for sure. Fitch grinds out the wins but good lord it's boring to watch him do it..


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Johnson vs Penn. :laugh:

The novelty aspect alone would make it hilarious.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

stageboss said:


> Now that Penn has reincorporated offensive wrestling into his game plan, it's gonna be REAL interesting to see him work his top control vs an opponent with such a dangerous guard like Condit has.
> 
> I think this fight just got 100x more interesting.
> 
> When Fitch comes back, just give him the loser of GSP/Shields.


 BJ competed at the highest level of BJJ, Condit has a good guard but BJ has competed with the best, trained with guys like Vitor Ribierio. Condit has a good guard but BJ's BJJ game is on a completely different level and good against BJ is just useless. 



stageboss said:


> Toxic --
> 
> Penn would be facing Condit, not Kim.


I understood, it was just the first time I had heard Kim/Penn suggested and couldn't help but give my reaction to it.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Condit-Penn, what?! I'd so jizz again. This makes sense now but i'm not trying to hype it up until we get some source on that badboy.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Yeah Condit-Penn would be such a great fight.

Would have to go with my man Carlos in that fight too.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Toxic said:


> BJ competed at the highest level of BJJ, Condit has a good guard but BJ has competed with the best, trained with guys like Vitor Ribierio. Condit has a good guard but BJ's BJJ game is on a completely different level and good against BJ is just useless.
> 
> 
> I understood, it was just the first time I had heard Kim/Penn suggested and couldn't help but give my reaction to it.


I don't think it is likely that BJ gets the sub though. BJ 29/28 or Condit via tko in the third when he becomes an animal and a half on top of a gassed BJ.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

BJ could sub Condit. You underestimate how important the fact that Fitch is a black belt under David Camarillo who trained for years with BJ really is. Dave would know and understand BJ's tendencies and patterns far better than most.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

osmium said:


> I don't think it is likely that BJ gets the sub though. BJ 29/28 or Condit via tko in the third when he becomes an animal and a half on top of a gassed BJ.


Yep, not a good match up for BJ. He'll push a relentless pace on em tiring him out by the end of the first.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

I'm hoping its going to be Nate Diaz! I don't know why but I really want to see BJ Penn vs. Nate Diaz!


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

It's Condit. His manager Malki Kawa just put this on Twitter:

Just got a really cool fight for @CarlosCondit! This will kncock your socks off!


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Yes! Glad it got some confirmation. I hope Condit takes this one.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Condit is not a better striker, he isn't a better wrestler and he isn't a better grappler. If your gameplan is to hope BJ gases your shit out of luck because it hasn't worked well for anyone who went in thinking that way in the past.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Would pay to see Condit vs. Penn. Flip a coin as to who strikes first. 

I wouldn't mind seeing Stun Gun either. Rumor is, he's next in line after Shields for a title shot though? LOL!


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Condit is not a better striker, he isn't a better wrestler and he isn't a better grappler. If your gameplan is to hope BJ gases your shit out of luck because it hasn't worked well for anyone who went in thinking that way in the past.


Condit is a danger to BJ standing he is skilled offensively striking, will have 6 inches of reach on him, and has more power. Couple that with how tough he is to put away, the tenacity and pace at which he fights, and his size advantage and there is your path to victory. The plan is to use the advantages and tools he has to gas BJ or hurt him standing. Working a high pace has always worked against BJ what doesn't work is the dumb shit Diego and Kenny did which is lean on him and expect him to somehow gas from not using energy.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Great fight. 

I'll go with BJ, but Condit is no slouch, and it'll show.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

I go BJ here, but wouldn't surprise me much if Condit won. \

I could expect BJ to win the striking and then Condit to trying to push him up against the cage. 29-28 Penn, I see a great fight but no stoppage.


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## nastyblow (Oct 10, 2006)

I heard fitch decided to train against a blanket, and lost. Emotionally scarring injury. May not fight again.


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## ballers101 (Aug 6, 2010)

Toxic said:


> BJ would pick Rumble apart. There is a huge difference between an explosive puncher and a technician like BJ. After what BJ was able to do for two rounds to Fitch I honestly feel that outside Fitch/GSP/Shields there is not a WW that stands a chance against Penn.


I think that Koscheck would definitely have a good chance against Penn, Alves would give him a really good fight, but I really want to see Penn fight Kampmann. That would be a great fight, technician vs technician.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

This is even better no Fitch could imagine how he hurt himself but anyways BJ vs Condit would be a sick fight and if BJ could do what he was doing with Fitch this is going to be an epic fight.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

THANK GOD. I had no interest in that fight. The only reason the 1st one was competitive was because Penn caught Fitch off guard with a good gameplan. The second fight would be one sided in Fitch's favor.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Condit is one of the most talented guys in the division.

Would like to what type of kicks he throws.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Penn vs Diego rematch? :confused02:


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## Rastaman (Feb 25, 2010)

Penn vs. Mike Pierce. Do it, that guy is mad underrated.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Dammit fml


Edit;

Wait wait wait... It's condit vs penn now? I think I just peed a little. So good


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

osmium said:


> Condit is a danger to BJ standing he is skilled offensively striking, will have 6 inches of reach on him, and has more power. Couple that with how tough he is to put away, the tenacity and pace at which he fights, and his size advantage and there is your path to victory. The plan is to use the advantages and tools he has to gas BJ or hurt him standing. Working a high pace has always worked against BJ what doesn't work is the dumb shit Diego and Kenny did which is lean on him and expect him to somehow gas from not using energy.


 BJ never has reach except against Sherk and Edgar. BJ has knocked out higher caliber opponents than Condit and taken blows from bigger guys and stayed standing. I would say BJ has just as much power as Condit. BJ is also good at dictating the pace of his fights and not any have been able to push him.


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## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

What a great fight. I wasn't overly stoked to see the rematch anyways. 

Condit is just dangerous enough that bj will take this fight super seriously. To me this is a prime matchup for bj to shine but condit isn't going to serve it up on a silver platter.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

WOOOOOOOOOOOO WAR CONDIT!!!

This fight will be a barn burner. Let's see if Condit can really hang with the big boys. If he beats BJ I say title shot.


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## Pound&Mound (Dec 10, 2007)

holy crap Penn vs Condit now owwoowwoowowowowwo amazing fight I just came wow.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Geez. This "Condit vs Penn" rumor is getting out of control.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Toxic said:


> Thank God!!!!, BJ needs a confidence booster after that third round. BJ has the skills but I was pretty worried Fitch broke him mentally and that it would carry over.


THIS! This is a godsend for BJ. Didn't want to see him retire, which was a real possibility if Fitch continued from Rd 3.


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## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

That has to be one hell of an injury. The rematch was slated for July (3rd?). 6 week training camp would start mid may. 

As for Penn v. Condit, I would go Condit. Penn's confidence is shattered, and he just doesn't compete well at 170. He threw Fitch off, but once adjusted, Fitch smashed him. And Condit is finding his groove. 

THe mental aspect of this game is underrated sometimes.


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## Shady1 (Jan 27, 2011)

Mike Pyle would be a good opponent for Penn


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

I am sorry for Fitch (and TraMaI) honestly, i really think he would have won the 2nd fight, but this is life.

The first name that came to my mind when i read Fitch was rulled out of the fight, was Condit!

And this fight should be a lot more exciting for the fans.

Condit is awesome. Every fight he's in is a FOTN candidate and it's mainly because of him. 
I would give the edge to BJ though, but not by much.
Others have already said it, but i also think BJ has a slight advantage in almost every aspect of the game: striking, wrestling and BJJ.
But, Condit has far superior conditioning and has his ability to take damage is one of the best in the UFC.

Against Condit, BJ's gonna have to dig deep and bring his A+ game that night.

Condit is the type of fighter that gets better as the fight progresses; he grows as the fight advances, he feeds through the fight - something like that.
He's very active on the feet and on the ground; his guard is very good and his GnP is vicious.
If BJ can't put him away in the first 10 minutes of the fight - wich i don't think he will - he's gonna have problems in the last round. 
Condit's fight against MacDonald is a very good example: Rory dominated Condit for 11 minutes, like no one before him, but Condit came back and took the fight in the dying seconds.

He is a maniac and doesn't stop until the end...unlike BJ.

I can't wait for this fight. 
Should be a clinic! :thumbsup:


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## Brydon (Jan 13, 2007)

Prolific said:


> I say let rumble face him. i think that could be interesting on the feet.


I would definitly want to see that fight and BJ is definitly man enough to take it. The size difference would be HUGE and is BJ could pull off a spectacular win that would be amazing.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

THIS is just the opponent BJ needs right now. Someone that is going to go balls to the wall and give him a fight in every aspect of MMA. I think BJ will be very fired up and game for Condit.

I cannot fricken wait for this fight. Fitch BJ 2 was meh for me. After the third round I, like Toxic, was worried it would carry over into the rematch.

This fight is just so much more exciting. WOOOOO


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Condit would have to strike with BJ and he would most likely get down in the first 2 Rounds. This shouln't be to hard for Penn.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Condit would have to strike with BJ and he would most likely get down in the first 2 Rounds. This shouln't be to hard for Penn.


Don't underestimate Condit for one second.
His fight against Rory MacDonald is the best example.
No one dominated him like that - and for 2 rounds not 2 minutes - and he came back and won the fight.

BJ is gonna have to be careful on how he'll manage his conditioning/gas tank in this fight.
Condit fights at a very high pace and he can sustain that pace for the entire 15 minutes, while BJ at WW has shown a constant drop in performance as the fight goes on. 
In all of them: Fitch, both GSP fights, Hughes.

It's gonna be interesting.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

limba said:


> Don't underestimate Condit for one second.
> His fight against Rory MacDonald is the best example.
> No one dominated him like that - and for 2 rounds not 2 minutes - and he came back and won the fight.
> 
> ...


Thats true limba, but still! There is really no aspect in the game where Condit is superior.. and striking wise Penn should have the biggest edge, even more then on the ground. But if he would come in and try to take Condit down in the first round, I wouldn't bet against an early submission victory.

Rory McDonald is an average WW.. and he outworked Condit in there fight too. Both are far away from Penn's level.

But like you mentioned, Cardio could be a big issue if Penn doesn't finish in the first 10 minutes. I doupt Condit could stand for more then 10 minutes with BJ and they won't give him a 10:8 either in the last round.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

I think Condit should be the replacement. Im just glad I dont have to see Fitch 'fight' for another few months \0/


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Thats true limba, but still! There is really no aspect in the game where Condit is superior.. and striking wise Penn should have the biggest edge, even more then on the ground. But if he would come in and try to take Condit down in the first round, I wouldn't bet against an early submission victory.


I don't see BJ subbing Condit unless he gets Condit's back straight away, because i don't see any other way BJ could sub him.
If he gets on top after a TD, i don't think he is getting past Condit's guard, wich is one of the most aggressive guards in the divisions.
Should be interesting though and BJ migh resort to a TD.

I believe he will chose the one thing it will be less damaging to his gas tank.



BobbyCooper said:


> Rory McDonald is an average WW.. and he outworked Condit in there fight too. Both are far away from Penn's level.


MacDonald is average ... on paper. But the kid has serious potential. He didn't just outwork Condit - he dominated Condit and had him in big trouble.
My point was - Condit can take punishement, survive and if you fade for once second he will punish you worse than you did.



BobbyCooper said:


> But like you mentioned, Cardio could be a big issue if Penn doesn't finish in the first 10 minutes. I doupt Condit could stand for more then 10 minutes with BJ and they won't give him a 10:8 either in the last round.


Florian stood with BJ for more than 3 rounds and Sanchez more than 4 rounds.
If they managed that, Condit will too.
And why wouldn't the judges give Condit a 10-8 rd?!

If he were to dominate, he would get a 10-8 rd, no doubt in my mind.

Judges have f****d up a lot of fights this year, but let's hope they won't do it again.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Well, that would be a draw then too! We can do a bet if you like when this fight is actually announced^^ 

Like I said, I don't see *any* aspect at all where Condit could defeat Penn or at least is a little superior other then cardio.. not on the ground, not on the feet and not in the clinch either. Also at WW BJ has one punch Knock Out Power!

Would be a cool bet limba^^ let's hope they actually fight each other 

like a couple of millions^^


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Well, that would be a draw then too! We can do a bet if you like when this fight is actually announced^^
> 
> Like I said, I don't see *any* aspect at all where Condit could defeat Penn or at least is a little superior other then cardio.. not on the ground, not on the feet and not in the clinch either. Also at WW BJ has one punch Knock Out Power!
> 
> ...


I've said it myself. I think BJ is a bit better in every aspect of the game: except cardio/conditioning, the ability to take damage.....and will/heart.
Condit doesn't give up. Never have i see Condit give up.
His fight against Ellenberger is another example. Totally dominated and came back to win it.

We will see about the bet, as the figh approaches.

Until then, let's wait for the fight to be confirmed and let's hope we get to see a clinic. :thumbsup:


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

BobbyC, Condit has a slight advantage over his opponent if you didn't know.



His on my FFL team.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

limba said:


> I've said it myself. I think BJ is a bit better in every aspect of the game: except cardio/conditioning, the ability to take damage.....and will/heart.
> Condit doesn't give up. Never have i see Condit give up.
> His fight against Ellenberger is another example. Totally dominated and came back to win it.
> 
> ...


Alright :thumbsup:



Rauno said:


> BobbyC, Condit has a slight advantage over his opponent if you didn't know.
> 
> 
> 
> His on my FFL team.


You still have the Reem left Rauno


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

must be a pretty serious injury considering the fight is still quite a long way away. I hope its not another grappler who steps in, i wanna see Penn's striking again, Condit maybe, that would be awesome.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Actually there is only Condit, Pierce, Johnson or Kampmann for BJ to fight :confused02:


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## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

I suppose Serra/Penn 2 would be a bit pointless ? Would probably be all kinds of fun though, with the BJJ and striking.

Condit/Penn would be wicked, love both fighters but would have to back BJ !


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

This sucks I really wanted to see Fitch finish handing BJ his ass. Fitch is pulling out 3 months ahead of the fight, whatever the injury is it must involve surgery, not much else could keep him out of a fight this far in advance.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

*..i'm coming for you Baby Jay.*


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## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

I'd have to agree with Toxic on this one, the mental wreckage from the last round of their fight seemed to have a huge toll on BJ, to the point where in the interview with Joe it seemed like he had to discuss with his team if he still wanted to fight. Obviously he was going to keep fighting, but still. I thought BJ won that fight.

I'm sure BJ is more confident now that he's probably rewatched the fight and realizes how well he did, but yeah... definite concerns about his mental game going into that fight. As for the vs Condit matchup ... outside of Kenny Florian and perhaps Frankie Edgar, I'm going to say Condit has the most technical striking BJ will have fought recently. That being said, I don't see Condit's striking and draw the same level of amazement I do from seeing BJ's. His boxing literally just picks people apart. I'd like to see BJ incorporate a more heavy take-down game via wrestling. I think he could do really well with his high level offensive BJJ and good takedowns, especially against someone like Condit. Every way I look at this fight, I see BJ having an advantage. I'm far more excited for this fight than the rematch, it'll be interesting to see what BJ does with this fight.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

My god, this is an awesome fight. Just due to how well condits style matches up. Tenacious, loves to bang, constantly attacking, never gives up. I cant wait.

As for people saying Rory dominated Condit for 2 rounds, what fight were you watching? When did he ever have Condit in big trouble. The striking was pretty much even and rory secured the rounds through take downs in which he did NOTHING with them.

I dont remember Rory dominating Condit in those first two rounds at all. Both were back and forth rounds with Rory getting take downs to no effect and then domination by Condit in the third.

Any ways, on paper BJ is the superior fighter. Better striking, much better wrestling and a better ground game.

Condit is my second fave fighter at WW. I'll be rooting for Penn of course, but I dont wanna see condit lose badly. I just wanna see a great fight.


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## Spic_D (Jan 2, 2011)

Drogo said:


> *This sucks I really wanted to see Fitch finish handing BJ his ass.* Fitch is pulling out 3 months ahead of the fight, whatever the injury is it must involve surgery, not much else could keep him out of a fight this far in advance.


This.

I see BJ taking this fight. BJ is really the superior fighter of the two. The only thing Condit is superior is in cardio and heart, but since its a 3 round fight I don't think the cardio will be a problem for BJ. But you can't count Condit out, he is actually really good, and being at Jackson's he may find a way to win.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Rauno said:


> *..i'm coming for you Baby Jay.*


Perhaps Rauno would be up too a little bet as well if the fight get's announced soon mmhhh :thumb03:

Believe in your FFL Team^^


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Alves if he finishes Story with no major injury?


I have wanted to see this fight for awhile. I think if it were to ever take place, Alves takes it if Penn can't get the fight to the ground.

Condit would be an awesome fight as well.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I have wanted to see this fight for awhile. I think if it were to ever take place, Alves takes it if Penn can't get the fight to the ground.
> 
> Condit would be an awesome fight as well.



Agreed. I always believed a healthy Alves to be a nightmare match-up for Penn. Unreal TDD, insane power, rock solid chin, and just physically massive compared to BJ.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Penn is way better at Boxing than Condit and i just cant see Penn being subbed by him.

So to be honest unless BJ gasses or Carlos tries to tie him up and lay on him, i really think Penn will get a finish here. 


But BJ has been known to show up UNMOTIVATED on occasions so i won't be putting big on him, i just believe a 100% Penn is better in more area's than Condit.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> My god, this is an awesome fight. Just due to how well condits style matches up. Tenacious, loves to bang, constantly attacking, never gives up. I cant wait.
> 
> As for people saying Rory dominated Condit for 2 rounds, what fight were you watching? When did he ever have Condit in big trouble. The striking was pretty much even and rory secured the rounds through take downs in which he did NOTHING with them.
> 
> ...


People's perception of the Rory/Condit fight is pretty swayed by the fact that Rory came in as a heavy unknown underdog and while not dominating he clearly won rounds two and three and was clearly on his way to picking up a decision had Condit not managed to finish it right before the buzzer.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Story is going to beat Alves. 

BJ is just lucky he didn't draw Kampmann. Condit is dangerous, a badass, and shouldn't be counted out but BJ should be the favorite. Kampmann would retire BJ after what happened in the third round of the Fitch fight.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

osmium said:


> Story is going to beat Alves.
> 
> BJ is just lucky he didn't draw Kampmann. Condit is dangerous, a badass, and shouldn't be counted out but BJ should be the favorite. Kampmann would retire BJ after what happened in the third round of the Fitch fight.


I know that this is a typical osmium troll bait post but I'll bite. After what BJ did to Diego, I'm pretty sure he'd steamroll the fight-IQ-retarded Kampmann. Kampmann's wrestling is NOWHERE near Fitch's, his BJJ is lackluster and inactive and his striking is good but Penn's counterboxing is proven.


IMO Condit beat Kampmann in their match anyway.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Perhaps Rauno would be up too a little bet as well if the fight get's announced soon mmhhh :thumb03:
> 
> Believe in your FFL Team^^


Hmmm, i have to think about it. Maybe a small wager?


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

***** de Amigo said:


> Penn is way better at Boxing than Condit *and i just cant see Penn being subbed by him.*
> 
> So to be honest unless BJ gasses or Carlos tries to tie him up and lay on him, i really think Penn will get a finish here.
> 
> ...


Please tell me you meant to say "i cant see Penn subbing Condit". What on earth would give you the idea that Condit has a chance to sub Penn?



Toxic said:


> People's perception of the Rory/Condit fight is pretty swayed by the fact that Rory came in as a heavy unknown underdog and while not dominating he clearly won rounds two and three and was clearly on his way to picking up a decision had Condit not managed to finish it right before the buzzer.


Yea, I agree Rory was probably up on the score cards due to his take downs and winning the rounds, but only JUST. He was in no way dominated like some people make out. I actually gave Condit the edge in striking against Rory in both rounds one and two. I think that fight is a prime example of take downs being scored far too highly. Rory did absolutely nothing with them, condit was the aggressor on the ground, yet those take downs gave Rory the edge.

Osmiums man love for Kampman is ridiculous.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Originally Posted by ***** de Amigo said:


> Penn is way better at Boxing than Condit and i just cant see Penn being subbed by him.





Mckeever said:


> Please tell me you meant to say "i cant see Penn subbing Condit". What on earth would give you the idea that Condit has a chance to sub Penn?




Uhh... what? He said he can't see Condit subbing Penn. And then you said you can't see Penn subbing condit? Then said Condit has no chance to sub Penn?


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Uhh... what? He said he can't see Condit subbing Penn. And then you said you can't see Penn subbing condit? Then said Condit has no chance to sub Penn?


He said "I cant see Condit subbing Penn", isn't that blatantly obvious?! He doesnt stand any remote chance of subbing Penn. It sounds to me like he seems to think Condit has a chance of subbing BJ, but he just cant see him pulling it off, if that makes sense.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

this fight is actually very interesting, i dont find it as one sided as some think, i know every1 thinks it will be entertaining no doubt, but i think some might be underrating condit a little

hes no striking master but the guys is pretty effective in his stand up, i think its underrated by most fans, not that he will out srike penn but i think the striking game will be a lot closer than ppl think IMO

simply because BJ is smaller but also slower, and his striking is overrated while condit has the size and speed advantage and underrated striking, will be a awesome battle on the feet

on the ground however, no doubt penn is a force and should outclass condit, even though condit is no rookie on the ground

in the end, very fun fight since both like to bring it, penn was asking for fights like these, also i would be very impressed by bj if he actually beats condit, condit is slowly becoming a top WW, soon he will be a solid top 5 and a title contender, for bj to beat him would be very impressive!

bj is amazing, respect for the little hawaian:thumb02:


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## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

I know most people hate Fitch but I was really hoping to see the rematch. It is really the fight that makes the most sense for both of them at the moment. Any other fight would really be a step down for both of them unless they were fighting for the championship.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> I know that this is a typical osmium troll bait post but I'll bite. After what BJ did to Diego, I'm pretty sure he'd steamroll the fight-IQ-retarded Kampmann. Kampmann's wrestling is NOWHERE near Fitch's, his BJJ is lackluster and inactive and his striking is good but Penn's counterboxing is proven.
> 
> 
> IMO Condit beat Kampmann in their match anyway.


Fitch would get dominated by Kampmann he is top flight grappling and striking in the clinch. Kampmann has better wrestling than BJ I don't know why people keep denying his skills after the evidence has piled up. A guy with lackluster BJJ doesn't sweep Shields half a dozen times and you don't win in the clinch against Shields with average wrestling. His takedown defense is beastly in the clinch you either have to gas him or time an outside shot perfectly if you want him down if you don't have an elite double. Shields didn't even attempt a submission against him because he was getting swept any time he took a real risk with his positioning. 

BJ would not get Kampmann down and even if he did couldn't hold him there. He doesn't have bad fighting IQ either he just gets robbed by awful judges who don't understand striking and score like 2 minutes of control in a round more than 3 minutes of kicking a guys ass.

I don't think that fight is even all that relevant anymore they have both made huge improvements as fighters since then and MMA is all about matchups.


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

Penn needs to go back to LW and his fight with Fitch proved that to me. He's not mentally strong enough to deal with guys who can bully him so he needs to go back to fighting guys who are his size. I love Penn (my favorite of all time) but he needs to stop fighting guys who are 15-20 pounds heavier than him.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

two of my favourite fighters, wow I love the fight but it makes me sad that somone has to lose. can't really root for one of them.
I dunno what I would predict, BJ is better everywhere but Condit is very tall and will have a big reach advantage. If Penn takes him down using offensive wrestling I can see him win. Otherwise I think Condit takes it in the standup, using his reach and very good kickboxing.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

I love how people think Kampmann is so great. He got beat by Shields who gassed in the first 60 seconds.


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## unclehulka13 (Nov 17, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> I love how people think Kampmann is so great. He got beat by Shields who gassed in the first 60 seconds.


but but..... he swept a gassed shields 2137 times according to osmium! how can he be underrated!?!?!!


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## Spic_D (Jan 2, 2011)

osmium said:


> Fitch would get dominated by Kampmann
> 
> He doesn't have bad fighting IQ either he just gets robbed by awful judges who don't understand striking and score like 2 minutes of control in a round more than 3 minutes of kicking a guys ass.


Okk... :sarcastic12:

Do you seriously think Kampmann would dominate Fitch?... hell even if he was the better grappler, what happened with him being better grappler than Diego? Did that really meant something?

Dude, if the way you fight is not wiinning you the fight, you should try something else don't you think?


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

There is no way Kampmann would beat Fitch right now. 

I always thought BJ could beat almost everybody at WW and he is proving it now :thumbsup:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Kampmann would dominate GSP I reckon.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Kampmann would dominate GSP I reckon.


He wouldn't get his ass kicked by him the entire fight like Fitch and BJ.



Spic_D said:


> Okk... :sarcastic12:
> 
> Do you seriously think Kampmann would dominate Fitch?... hell even if he was the better grappler, what happened with him being better grappler than Diego? Did that really meant something?
> 
> Dude, if the way you fight is not wiinning you the fight, you should try something else don't you think?


He out grappled Diego for basically the entire fight what are you talking about. He also out struck him by a large margin in every round. I guess he should stop winning in every phase of MMA in his fights then he can be awarded the victory. Punch air and fail at takedown attempts that is the way to get a victory just ask Leonard Garcia and Diego Sanchez.


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## Spic_D (Jan 2, 2011)

osmium said:


> He wouldn't get his ass kicked by him the entire fight like Fitch and BJ.
> 
> 
> 
> He out grappled Diego for basically the entire fight what are you talking about. He also out struck him by a large margin in every round. I guess he should stop winning in every phase of MMA in his fights then he can be awarded the victory. Punch air and fail at takedown attempts that is the way to get a victory just ask Leonard Garcia and Diego Sanchez.


Youdind't get my point. My point was that Kampmann being the superior grappler, he could use it to win the fight, not fighting Diego's fight.


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> There is no way Kampmann would beat Fitch right now.
> 
> *I always thought BJ could beat almost everybody at WW and he is proving it now* :thumbsup:


Whats he done other than draw with fitch and KO old man hughes?


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

Kreed said:


> Whats he done other than draw with fitch and KO old man hughes?


Became the WW champion once


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

The_Senator said:


> Became the WW champion once


This :thumb02:



Kreed said:


> Whats he done other than draw with fitch and KO old man hughes?


To draw Fitch and how he fought in that fight should show you how good that guy truly is. Let him destroy Carlos Condit and then we talk again


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

TheWulf said:


> So a LHW fighting a LW. That would look crazy.


See Rumble vs Yoshida or Penn vs Machida for details.


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## skinnyBIGGS (Jul 2, 2010)

Good im glad we all know BJ PENN won that decesion bout , he lost one round , to a fighter that clearly wanted to make the round drag on in one position. BJPENN is still a leathal fighter if only this guy had the mental capacities equal to his skill set , haters would sing a diff tune...something like this

BJPENN THE NEW EMPEROR


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

The real truth is that Fitch put everyone to sleep [literally] in his camp and has no one to train with... Sorry, didn't mean to be so harsh, but, well, ya know...


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

BobbyCooper said:


> There is no way Kampmann would beat Fitch right now.
> 
> I always thought BJ could beat almost everybody at WW and he is proving it now :thumbsup:


Yeah, 3-3-1 at WW, 1-3-1 in his last 5, he's a monster. I think there are half a dozen WW's he'll lose to, maybe more.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

3-2-1 against arguably the 3 best WW's of all a time. He is a guy who could fight at FW and that has went 3-2 against the two greatest WW's of all time by a considerable margin. When you consider one of those 3 losses was a fight BJ was winning till he broke a rib and that the first GSP fight was a controversial decision. He has had one fight at WW that was a decisive loss and it was tainted by a vasaline scandal.


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## Imperador (May 9, 2010)

I'm in two minds whether the card at UFC 132 will contain BJ. They can either fast track someone like Condit, or wait until Fitch can regain fitness. We could have another 'Rashad' situation on our hands here. Condit gets fast tracked, beats BJ and then gets given the title shot, dependent on who wins in the GSP v Shields fight. Cue Fitch uproar. A wild shot yeah, but I happen to remember someone by the name of Jon Jones doing it.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

Toxic said:


> He is a guy who could fight at FW and that has went 3-2 against the two greatest WW's of all time by a considerable margin..


Yeah, fight and lose at FW. He just lost twice to a FW, remember? 

Not trying to say BJ sucks, he does not. He is a very good fighter and he'd be good at WW but he will not dominate at WW at all. He'll be one of a half dozen top guys who are waiting around for GSP to leave so they have a chance at the belt. I don't expect BJ to ever hold the WW title again, I don't see him beating Fitch, Kos, Alves, or Shields aside from the obvious no chance against GSP.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

People try to discredit BJ but Bj is one of the best fighters ever and always brings it so anyways would be a sick fight if it happened.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Drogo said:


> Yeah, fight and lose at FW. He just lost twice to a FW, remember?
> 
> Not trying to say BJ sucks, he does not. He is a very good fighter and he'd be good at WW but he will not dominate at WW at all. He'll be one of a half dozen top guys who are waiting around for GSP to leave so they have a chance at the belt. I don't expect BJ to ever hold the WW title again, I don't see him beating Fitch, Kos, Alves, or Shields aside from the obvious no chance against GSP.


The guy has fought LW to HW, held multiple titles and you just look at the Edgar fight. Name a single LW, FW or WW who could hold BJ's jock. GSP has not came close to challenging himself at the level BJ has, neither has Anderson Silva. You can't see BJ beating Fitch? Did you see the the first two rounds of there fight? I thought Fitch was to big to strong yet BJ defended the TD over and over while imposing his will on Fitch for 10 minutes. BJ is a better striker than any of the guys you mentioned, he out wrestled Fitch which means he should be able to take Alves down if he chose to and more than hold his own against the likes of Shields.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> He got beat by Shields who gassed in the first 60 seconds.


Kampmann beat Shields.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

limba said:


> Kampmann beat Shields.


Technically in the books, Shields beat Kampmann lol.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

DragonStriker said:


> Technically in the books, Shields beat Kampmann lol.


Not gonna say more.

Those who watched the fight, know what they saw.


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

The_Senator said:


> Became the WW champion once


The post I was replying to was speaking about the present not the past.And forrest griffin was a champion too homie, with strategic booking anyone can be champion it just depends if u are marketable = highly favoured by zuffa


BobbyCooper said:


> This :thumb02:
> 
> 
> 
> *To draw Fitch and how he fought in that fight should show you how good that guy truly is.* Let him destroy Carlos Condit and then we talk again


He had him for a round and a half then gassed being thoroughly dominated (albeit laid on) in the 3rd if i'm not mistaken..Believe me i'm a big bj advocate hes part of a dying breed especially in the wrestling laden division but lets not go overboard with praise here...


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

limba said:


> Not gonna say more.
> 
> Those who watched the fight, know what they saw.


I know what you mean but a win is a win lol.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Toxic;1392037[B said:


> ]The guy has fought LW to HW, held multiple titles and you just look at the Edgar fight. Name a single LW, FW or WW who could hold BJ's jock.[/B] GSP has not came close to challenging himself at the level BJ has, neither has Anderson Silva. You can't see BJ beating Fitch? Did you see the the first two rounds of there fight? I thought Fitch was to big to strong yet BJ defended the TD over and over while imposing his will on Fitch for 10 minutes. BJ is a better striker than any of the guys you mentioned, he out wrestled Fitch which means he should be able to take Alves down if he chose to and more than hold his own against the likes of Shields.


A) FW/BW divisions haven't been around for long enough for that to happen IMO. 

B) As far as fighting from LW to HW?

He fought HW once and lost.

He fought MW and won both times so that's a legitimate claim, though the talent at an MMA level is questionable IMO. I haven't seen those fights but it couldn't have been that hard for someone as good as BJ to out box Renzo Gracie for 3 rounds... I've never seen Rodrigo fight, but he looks to be more of a fit for MW than Renzo so I'm already more impressed by that lol! Either way, neither of them were world beaters by any means... 

It's been said he's 3-3-1 at WW. Yes, that's against the BEST WWs of all time... but isn't that the entire point? Doesn't that just show he isn't the best WW of all time? I've always admitted to BJ being a great fighter, but it seems to me that many people overrate a lot of his accomplishments.

At lightweight the dude is damn near unstoppable when he's on his A game, yes. But those fights seem to be few and far between many times. I always disliked how people say "Well an inshape/motivated/mentally sound/not flu having BJ Penn is the best fighter in the world!" 

Is he when he's all of those things? Arguably (I still give it to Silva) yes. But then entire point is people shouldn't have to SAY those things. You don't hear us saying that about ANY of the other top P4P guys like Aldo, Silva, GSP or even Cain. No one ever had to say it about Fedor or CroCop (until his fans were in denial >_>) or Wand or Shogun in the PRIDE days. The point that his mental game is THAT bad that it's a crapshoot if he even showed up to fight or not, in my opinion, is what keeps him from being one of the worlds greatest fighters of all time and keeps him squarely in the realm of "Great Fighter" with the likes of Jon Fitch, Koscheck, Andrei Arlovski and so on.



> He had him for a round and a half then gassed being thoroughly dominated *(albeit laid on*) in the 3rd if i'm not mistaken..


The ignorance in that statement made me literally laugh out loud, sir.

Judges definitely award 10-8 rounds for laying on someone.

Or was it the 147-2 Strikes Landed Ratio that did that?

No, you must be right, he laid on him.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Drogo said:


> Yeah, 3-3-1 at WW, 1-3-1 in his last 5, he's a monster. I think there are half a dozen WW's he'll lose to, maybe more.


See, thats the thing :thumbsup: 

People just take a quick look at his record and come out and say maaaahhh his record at WW sucks. Well, it doesn't if you would consider the most important parts of his record. Take a closer look before you discredit it.


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