# Condit opens as slight betting favorite against Diaz



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

> As if Nick Diaz needs a reason to motivate himself for his upcoming UFC 143 main event matchup with Carlos Condit -- a bout that will determine a UFC interim welterweight champion -- Diaz can turn to the oddsmakers for some fuel.
> 
> Diaz has voiced a displeasure at a perceived lack of respect for his achievements, and despite winning 11 fights in a row and vacating the Strikeforce welterweight belt to fight in the UFC, that apparently wasn't quite enough for linesmakers, who installed Condit as the favorite at UFC 143.
> 
> ...


*Source: MMAFighting.com*


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

This a tough fight to call. Odds likely will end up a pick em.

Thinking Condit by better rounded striking and not falling into Diaz's game or gassing but I am starting to learn not to count Diaz out(at least not against other Strikers).


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Condit needs to keep the fight in the center of the cage, wait for Diaz to drop his hands and taunt him and we all know he will and blast him with a flying knee, I think it's a pretty winnable fight.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Diaz has now moved to the favorite.

I think this should be a real solid fight. And I like Condit as a fighter...but I don't see where he wins. 

And I really don't understand why Condit gets so much credit? Where are his great wins? 

Kim? He was on a roll, but he is pretty 1-dimensional dude who hasn't established himself as a top 10 guy.

Hardy? Not top 10.

MacDonald had him beat..at 20 years old. And lost it at the end. #1 contenders shouldn't be losing to 20 year old kids, and he was well on his way to losing.

He beat Ellenberger by split dec. 

I don't see a top 10 win on his record.

Diaz has beat better strikers. He bloodied Penn up in a boxing match...you don't see that much. He got tagged, but ended up beat Paul Daley in a striking match.

I think Diaz defiantly has better Jitz too.

Condit can win by moving and kicking. But if he stands in front of Diaz for a while he will get tagged. And he doesn't have the wrestling to control Nick.

Condit is good, but Diaz is better in all areas he is strong it besides throwing kicks.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Diaz has now moved to the favorite.
> 
> I think this should be a real solid fight. And I like Condit as a fighter...but I don't see where he wins.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure Hardy was ranked when he fought him considering that was Hardy's first fight after the GSP fight and he was most likely ranked due to his win over Swick who was also ranked and supposed to fight Kampmann for a title shot.


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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

Here's how I call it

- Same amount of experience, same amount of MMA years, about the same age.

- Carlos has more tools in his striking game.

- Nick has the better pure boxing

- I give Carlos the slight power punching advantage

- On the ground it's dead even

- Chin durability is dead even.

- Nick has the better cardio.

The longer this fight goes, the more it favors Nick. The only way I see Carlos winning this fight is if he can somehow finish Nick, or he puts the pressure on Nick early and edges the first three rounds on the judges.

I hate that this fight has to happen because I want to see them both fight GSP. Now they have to fight for a damn interim belt.


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

DLXREV has it down pretty good but condit is better at figuring out fighters as he gets deeper into the fight... this will end in a finish and i actually see it favoring condit the longer the fight goes...


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> I'm pretty sure Hardy was ranked when he fought him considering that was Hardy's first fight after the GSP fight and he was most likely ranked due to his win over Swick who was also ranked and supposed to fight Kampmann for a title shot.


You might be right.

But we can use hindsight and realize he hasn't beat a real good fighter. He isn't on the same level or anywhere near a BJ Penn.

Condit's best win is Kim or Frank Trigg.

Condit gets this rep of a devastating striker, yet what quality strikers is he KOing? Dan Hardy is not a top striker. Hardy has proven to be all hype. 

Diaz is taking out top level MMA strikers with strikes. 

End of the day Condit's resume doesn't impress me.that much. He loses to the higher competition he faces like Kampmann and SHields. And he wins the ones he should. 

He is a quality fighter. But he hasn't beat any real animals. He very easily could have been 0-3 starting his UFC career. If he is having that much trouble with 20 year old kids and Martin Kampmann...he will have a lot of trouble with Nick Diaz in a striking match.


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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

dsmjrv said:


> DLXREV has it down pretty good but *condit is better at figuring out fighters as he gets deeper into the fight*... this will end in a finish and i actually see it favoring condit the longer the fight goes...


Also true, but seeing that Nick Diaz keeps the same incredible pace throughout the whole fight, it should be interesting to see how that actually plays out. Carlos was never known for his cardio. He even admitted that one of the reasons why he got so good at finishing fights.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I'm definitely picking Diaz.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

These guys are my equal 3rd favourite fighters... They are so evenly matched i have absolutely no idea who wins, all i want is for the winner to be the new WW champ. I was hoping GSP would have to fight both of them, but he probably will if he loses his title.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I am taking Condit here, but this is a fight that could really go either way. I think the striking comes down to Condit keeping his cool and not letting Diaz stalk him around the octagon. On the ground, I give Diaz the edge, but Condit is a very solid grappler.

All in all, I am PUMPED for this fight!


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

People said:

"BJ Penn has better boxing he will pick him apart, Nick is technical"

and

"If Nick stands with Paul Daley he will lose"

And both times those people were wrong.

I see a trifecta here. Talk about a great matchup for Nick Diaz. Only time he really loses is when he is laid on. Condit won't and can't really do that. I know one thing, come 4th and 5th round Nick will be fresher and most likely will win those rounds.


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## rebonecrusher (Nov 21, 2011)

I like Condit's chances. I won't say hes a better striker then Diaz but hes a more devastating striker by that I mean he has much more knockout power. He also is the only guy in the division aside from GSP who can match Diaz's pace. Condit's the better wrestler as well and has a good ground game so he won't be easy for Diaz to submit. Should be an awesome fight i'll have my popcorn ready.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

The reason I'm picking Diaz, aside from my bias, is that Diaz has a very underrated clinch game. I think this is where he will setup most his boxing. Neither will want to take it to the ground, and I feel Diaz has more areas to control the standup, even though they both have great striking.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Diaz would have been dominated by Rory, Ellenberger, and probably lost a close fight to Kim.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

I have this man winning, no one can keep up with his pace. Not even GSP


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

khoveraki said:


> Diaz would have been dominated by Rory, Ellenberger, and probably lost a close fight to Kim.


Ima go ahead and disagree x3 here.

Kim was lucky to beat a smaller worse Nate Diaz. Ellenberger would get subbed on the ground and outboxed badly on the. It's tough to say how Rory would fare, but dominated? Please.

I'm going huge on Diaz, and I wished I would have been on to get -115 on him, but -150 will do.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

Rauno said:


> I'm definitely picking Diaz.


...Yeah, Nick for sure. Condit is a very good, well-rounded fighter but he's not on Nick's level in any department. Condit isn't even on GSP's level either. Both Diaz & GSP are champions that have taken out much stiffer competition than Condit has. Diaz will push his infamous pace and break Condit down with body/head shots like he's done to his last 10 opponents...


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Nick will win this, condit's chin, bjj and and striking are all slightly less than Nick's.


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## A1yola06 (Jan 5, 2007)

On the ground they are even? I disagree with that. Diaz is a better fighter in every aspect of the game. He will dominate Condit.


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> MacDonald had him beat..at 20 years old. And lost it at the end. #1 contenders shouldn't be losing to 20 year old kids, and he was well on his way to losing.
> 
> He beat Ellenberger by split dec.


That kid would ragdoll Nick just like he did his little brother. Rory is the future of the WW division.

Oh, and Ellenberger would beat Nick far worse than Sean Sherk did.

Nick Diaz has a fun exciting style, but he relies way to much on his chin and mouth to keep the fight where he wants it.

One day he'll meet someone who wont play his game. That'll be the end of It. Carlos will slug this out, and It'll be FOTN. 
GSP wont, and It will be Diaz on the bottom getting elbows in the face


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Vale_Tudo said:


> That kid would ragdoll Nick just like he did his little brother. Rory is the future of the WW division.
> 
> Oh, and Ellenberger would beat Nick far worse than Sean Sherk did.


Sean Sherk didn't beat Nick badly at all, i had Nick winning that fight.

Nick landed more strikes standing and stuffed 16/18 of Sherk's TDs, it annoys me how judges reward TDs so heavily but TDD so lightly.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I really want to see Condit trying to figure out that constant pressing style of Nick Diaz. Condit has a very wide arsenal of attacks using both feet and hands but is he able to use all of his tools when Nick is constantly pressing, follwing and attacking him? We'll see.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Condit is like a mirror image of Diaz style wise, these are my two favourite fighters at WW by a considerable margin.

That said, Diaz is just better than Carlos in every area. He's like a Carlos Condit 2.0.

I expect a fantastic scrap here though with Diaz coming out on top in a unan decision.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Condit would be enormously hyped too if he fought all non wrestlers for 5 years.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

Dead even fight, I really am root for Carlos here but I say it's basicly a 50/50 fight.

Both have great chins
Diaz should have a slight grappling advantage but none of these guys can or will wrestle so I don't see it as a factor.
A slight advantage in cardio to Diaz but it shouldn't be an issue as Condit doesn't seem likely to gas either.
Slight striking-advantage to Condit using, kicks, knees etc. Unlike the boxing of Diaz and non existent strikingdefence.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Condit would be enormously hyped too if he fought all non wrestlers for 5 years.


Looking at statistics, BJ Penn is one of the better wrestlers in the 170lb division. Diaz had his way with BJ in the clinch and stuffed a couple of shots before BJ started to tire.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Vale_Tudo said:


> That kid would ragdoll Nick just like he did his little brother. Rory is the future of the WW division.
> 
> Oh, and Ellenberger would beat Nick far worse than Sean Sherk did.
> 
> ...


I like all the "woulds" like they are fact.

Get out of here.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> Condit would be enormously hyped too if he fought all non wrestlers for 5 years.


Yea add in the fact he'd have to outstrike BJ Penn and Paul Daley.

Oh wait a minute...he has never outstruck a guy half as good as them.

Again, get out of here.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Yea add in the fact he'd have to outstrike BJ Penn and Paul Daley.
> 
> Oh wait a minute...he has never outstruck a guy half as good as them.
> 
> Again, get out of here.


Daley dropped Diaz twice and Penn outstruck Diaz in rd1, not saying its proof of anything but people go overboard with the Daley fight. Kos outstruck Daley the 10 seconds it was standing too.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Daley dropped Diaz twice and Penn outstruck Diaz in rd1, not saying its proof of anything but people go overboard with the Daley fight. *Kos outstruck Daley the 10 seconds it was standing too.*


I honestly can't tell if you're being serious with this statement or not.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> I honestly can't tell if you're being serious with this statement or not.


Meh, he did. In the 2-3 total exchanges that happened.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> Daley dropped Diaz twice and Penn outstruck Diaz in rd1, not saying its proof of anything but people go overboard with the Daley fight. Kos outstruck Daley the 10 seconds it was standing too.


The 10 seconds it was standing....cool.

I see I'm dealing with another one of these "could ofs". A non-results kind of guy.

Diaz proved the Penn backers and people who said he couldn't stand with Daley wrong. He will just prove you wrong too, and you will say the same crap next fight. 

Diaz has the best chin/recovery in the division, some of the best in MMA...that is proven. And he has more cardio than Condit, that is basically a fact. 

Condit gets KO artist status because he had a perfectly timed haymaker thrown on Dan Hardy and pull off a flying knee vs a overhyped DYK. 

People act like Diaz has no power. Yet he was first and only guy to KO/TKO guys liek Paul Daley and Robbie Lawler. I really don't get it. Those guys never get rocked yet Diaz put them away for the first time in their careers.


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## A1yola06 (Jan 5, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Diaz proved the Penn backers and people who said he couldn't stand with Daley wrong. He will just prove you wrong too, and you will say the same crap next fight.


Couldn't have said it better myself. It's a never ending stream of crap, I don't even try to have this conversation anymore.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Diaz could whoop GSP for 5 rounds and people would still say that his skills are mediocre at best.

If Nick Diaz had GSP's personality how ever, he would be receiving a ridiculous amount of praise from the fans. People judge a fighter's skills based too much on whether they like/dislike their personality.

Sad, but true.


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## MMA specialist (Nov 8, 2010)

The biggest advantages for Nick are his chin and his cardio. So good its a 5 round fight because Nick has the cardio to go all 5 where as Carlos may not. Diaz can also take the big shot and recover, another huge advantage against Condit.

Unfortunetly, GSP can also go all 5 rounds and won't even be bothering Diaz's chin. Hoping Nick can work subs from guard off the takedown in that one.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

I'm picking Nick Diaz because he is one of the best MMA fighters on the planet.


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## Glothin (Jun 8, 2010)

*I am Rooting for Diaz*

Is Conduit back with Jackson as his coach? If so, bad news for Nick.

Conduit won't have to figure out all of Diaz's style, form, technique, etc... Greg Jackson will. That's the biggest threat to be a difference maker to me.

And Conduit is about the only Jackson fighter for whom I can cheer.

If Jackson is in his corner, i predict we will not see Conduit against Hardy or Rory. And the McDonald fight was one of the most thrilling technical, non-bloody fights I have seen in the past several years. 

Conduit is a good, possibly great fighter. With Jackson's backing they will fight a solid strategy that will almost assuredly be one that Diaz is not heavily expecting. I could see Conduit trying to win via the "Natural Born Lay n Prayer", if Jackson thinks its the way to win. That's hard to believe and I am hoping that's not going to happen,


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> *Diaz could whoop GSP for 5 rounds and people would still say that his skills are mediocre at best.*
> 
> If Nick Diaz had GSP's personality how ever, he would be receiving a ridiculous amount of praise from the fans. People judge a fighter's skills based too much on whether they like/dislike their personality.
> 
> Sad, but true.


Nonsense. If anyone beats GSP for 5 rounds no one will claim that they are mediocre.

Diaz is a great fighter. Very few people actually argue that. He just so happens to be one of the biggest douche bags on the planet. He's the most dis-respectful guy I've ever seen in any sport both inside and outside of the cage.

I can easily see how people are a fan of his fighting. I cannot see how anyone is a fan of him as a person.

That being said, I hope Condit wins. I'm really not sure who wins this fight. Either guy gets destroyed by GSP after.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Diaz is a great fighter. Very few people actually argue that. He just so happens to be one of the biggest douche bags on the planet. He's the most dis-respectful guy I've ever seen in any sport both inside and outside of the cage.


So Chael can talk shit about entire nation. Disrespect a man's wife. Be a dirty lying politician (wasn't it a felony charge?). And that is ok.

But Diaz just doesn't like the camera, and would rather be training and he's a bigger D-Bag? So what if he flips dudes off? Its a fight, he doesn't want to be friends with his opponents. Aoki fucked a guy up then flipped him off to his face right after...

Its funny how so many people get on Nick's case because he is just uncomfortable in front of a camera. He doesn't hold his tongue. I respect him more for that than someone giving generic answers and don't speak their mind. Not everyone is socially capable...some people have social anxiety. If it were up to him you wouldn't hear a word from him all year. Not sure how he is so disrespectful. He is just real. he goes out puts on a show for the fans that pay his purse (something a lot of guys don't do, I won't name names) and gives all the credit to his gym and training partners after the fight.

Yea he is as disrespectful as it comes...:confused05:


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> So Chael can talk shit about entire nation. Disrespect a man's wife. Be a dirty lying politician (wasn't it a felony charge?). And that is ok.
> 
> But Diaz just doesn't like the camera, and would rather be training and he's a bigger D-Bag? So what if he flips dudes off? Its a fight, he doesn't want to be friends with his opponents. Aoki fucked a guy up then flipped him off to his face right after...
> 
> ...


Chael puts on an act similar to comedians. You will NEVER see Chael flip a guy off in the middle of a fight. This isn't about Chael though. This is about Diaz.

Nick is a douche bag through and through. It's not just "speaking his mind". He doesn't have respect for his job, his opponents, and the organization that he works for. You know, things people start to do at the age of 15.

Argue all you want about his skills. But don't act like he's some hero because he "speaks his mind". Both Diaz brothers are assholes, and proud assholes at that.

You are right though. He is as "real" as they come. He is a real douche bag and has no problem showing it. Congratulations. Neither do most low lives who take pride in being douche bags to everyone else.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Chael puts on an act similar to comedians. You will NEVER see Chael flip a guy off in the middle of a fight. This isn't about Chael though. This is about Diaz.
> 
> Nick is a douche bag through and through. It's not just "speaking his mind". He doesn't have respect for his job, his opponents, and the organization that he works for. You know, things people start to do at the age of 15.
> 
> ...


You ever see Diaz out of the spotlight? You ever talk to him in person? Everything I have heard from any fighter is he is a great training partner. Great teacher at his gym.

Yea, doesn't respect his sport. Sure. He only trains harder than pretty much everyone. He only would rather train 24/7 than do interviews. Yea, really taking short cuts there.

You know a guy who doesn't take short cuts? That Chael dude. I mean felony money laundering, TRT levels like 10x the norm, putting on a disrespectful act out of the blue one day just to get more attention and more money. I mean that guy is the definition of respecting his sport.:confused05:

Its guys like you who stick up for the corporate sleez balls in life but at the same time want to put down guys who come from nothing and are rough around the edges. 

Not everyone is a robot like GSP. Not everyone is trying to be popular. Not everyone has silver spoons shoved up their asses.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

You are a total hypocrite when you say "well Chael's is an act".

So what do you think Diaz just goes his whole life flipping dudes off on a daily basis? You really think he is the same guy he is during a normal day as he is on fight night?

Why is Chael allowed to be ridiculous and disrespectful, and Nick can't when he is in the cage? You don't think is a human being outside of the cage? You don't think he doesn't take picture, and do autographs for his fans? You don't think he is a good guy outside of the cage? Why?

So basically what you are saying is Chael is allowed to tell Silva he sucks from Rogan's mic right after a fight. But Nick can't flip a guy off that he is in the middle of a fight with? 

Basically to you being disrespectful is ok, as long as its in a WWE like manner. As long as you are being a fake person...you are allowed to be disrespectful is what you are saying. Shows your character. Cheer for a fake disrespectful guy. But scold a guy who is real when he flips a guy off. 

Hypocrites are annoying. And you sir qualify.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> You ever see Diaz out of the spotlight? You ever talk to him in person?


I don't need to. He's one of the only "real" guys on camera that he is off right? By your logic he acts the same all the time. Why would I need to talk to him in person? My guess is that you don't know him on a personal level either. So how are you able to judge and I'm not? Same goes for Chael.



> Everything I have heard from any fighter is he is a great training partner. Great teacher at his gym.


Good. Doesn't make him any less of a douche bag to 95% of people.



> Yea, doesn't respect his sport. Sure. He only trains harder than pretty much everyone. He only would rather train 24/7 than do interviews. Yea, really taking short cuts there.


I never said he doesn't respect the sport. I said he doesn't respect his job. When you sign a contract that comes with doing press releases and showing up to work on time, you honor that contract. Not doing so shows a complete lack of respect for his job and complete and utter immaturity. Thats also something most kids learn during their first job.



> You know a guy who doesn't take short cuts? That Chael dude. I mean felony money laundering, TRT levels like 10x the norm, putting on a disrespectful act out of the blue one day just to get more attention and more money. I mean that guy is the definition of respecting his sport.:confused05:


This isn't about Chael. It's about Nick.



> Its guys like you who stick up for the corporate sleez balls in life but at the same time want to put down guys who come from nothing and are rough around the edges.


Guys like me? Yeah. Guys like Nick get in fights at hospitals, drive around filming themselves talking shit while cutting random people off and then cussing at them for no reason, and care only about themselves 99% of the time. You want to bring up MY character and somehow try to demean me to less than a guy like Diaz? You've lost your ******* mind dude.



> Not everyone is a robot like GSP. Not everyone is trying to be popular. Not everyone has silver spoons shoved up their asses.


GSP was poor and picked on as a kid. Thats far from a silver spoon. Yet he's not a total douche bag. I know it's tough to imagine, but sometimes people take their job seriously and play the game WITHOUT dis-respecting everyone in the process.



jonnyg4508 said:


> You are a total hypocrite when you say "well Chael's is an act".


This is not about Chael.



> So what do you think Diaz just goes his whole life flipping dudes off on a daily basis? You really think he is the same guy he is during a normal day as he is on fight night?


Yes. He's posted enough videos and been in enough outside of the cage incidents to support that. Not to mention you claim he's the same on camera as he is off. So why would he not be a douche bag to everyone else?



> Why is Chael allowed to be ridiculous and disrespectful, and Nick can't when he is in the cage? You don't think is a human being outside of the cage? You don't think he doesn't take picture, and do autographs for his fans? You don't think he is a good guy outside of the cage? Why?


This isn't about Chael. But I'll bite once more. The difference is I can totally understand why people don't like Chael. I also understand that he crosses the line the majority of the time and I don't take offense when people talk down to him. You seem to be completely unable to admit that Diaz is a ******* douche bag. I know Chael can be.



> So basically what you are saying is Chael is allowed to tell Silva he sucks from Rogan's mic right after a fight. But Nick can't flip a guy off that he is in the middle of a fight with?


No, I'm not. Try and keep up.



> Basically to you being disrespectful is ok, as long as its in a WWE like manner. As long as you are being a fake person...you are allowed to be disrespectful is what you are saying. Shows your character. Cheer for a fake disrespectful guy. But scold a guy who is real when he flips a guy off.
> 
> Hypocrites are annoying. And you sir qualify.


Too fuckin funny. Here you are claiming Diaz is not an asshole and I'm the hypocrite? Well done.

Also, flipping a guy off isn't being "real". If you have the urge to flip a guy off who you are engaged in a professional sport against (especially when that guys done NOTHING to do), than you have some serious pysch problems. If you don't have enough damn SELF CONTROL to calm that urge and NOT ACT ON IT like an adult during a professional sporting event, than you are a complete douche bag.

It also says something when someone is so supportive of douche bag without even being able to understand the opposing view. Basically you prefer a douche bag who's a douche bag all the time instead of one who's a douche bag 50% of time and a good guy the other 50%.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Chael puts on an act similar to comedians. You will NEVER see Chael flip a guy off in the middle of a fight. This isn't about Chael though. This is about Diaz.
> 
> Nick is a douche bag through and through. It's not just "speaking his mind".* He doesn't have respect for his job, his opponents*, and the organization that he works for. You know, things people start to do at the age of 15.
> 
> ...





















You're looking way too far into Nick Diaz taunting his opponents in the ring and talking crap about them before fights.

Anderson Silva taunts and embarasses his opponents every time he steps inside the octagon, but he gets away with it because he bows before and after fights? Taunting is a very effective way of getting inside a fighter's a head and getting them to over commit. Diaz uses it to maximum effect.

Some people have to build up a hatred towards their opponent in order to mentally prepare for a fight. Diaz said after the BJ fight he had to find some thing, any thing to rile him up and make him dislike BJ a little. He sad he used BJ's words against Cesar Gracie as motivation.

Everyone is different and all kinds of fighters prepare mentally in different ways.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> You're looking way too far into Nick Diaz taunting his opponents in the ring and talking crap about them before fights.
> 
> Anderson Silva taunts and embarasses his opponents every time he steps inside the octagon, but he gets away with it because he bows before and after fights? Taunting is a very effective way of getting inside a fighter's a head and getting them to over commit. Diaz uses it to maximum effect.
> 
> ...


I don't see that as taunting. I see that as him expressing his feelings and unable to control himself. You can see how emotional he gets. That is 100% the way he is feeling when he does it.

Silva taunts has been an ass before. I'm not denying that. He's used taunting to get in his opponents head which was effective (Griffin), and just been a dick about it before (Maia).

Why are other people constantly being brought up? This is about Diaz and only Diaz. I don't know how people say "It's okay because he does it too!!!!" Criminals say stuff like that all the time.

Guy 1: Well yeah I ran a red light, but I didn't rob anyone.

Guy 2: Well I robbed someone, but I didn't kill anyone.

Guy 3: Well I killed someone, but I didn't molest any kids.

Guy 4: I molested kids, but at least I never tortured them.

So on and so on. Everyone is an individual and they need to take responsibility for their actions. Diaz is an ass and a douche bag. I don't even get how people try to argue that...

Sorry for the rant. Last minute holiday shopping puts me on edge.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

I love a that a total Chael backer ...starts back peddling when Chael's name is brought up. I"M MAKING IT ABOUT CHAEL...you have a problem with that?

The point is, anyone that backs Chael and says he's a good guy...then goes off and says Nick is disrespectful is a total hypocrite. Which you are. You can hide from that fact, but I'll point it out.

You may not be totally wrong about Diaz. I'm not saying he's some angel. But its just sad that the same person that backs a fake person like Chael is going to bad mouth a dude who doesn't put together the best sentences, or doesn't handle interviews the best. Not every kid growing up is taught the same tools. Guys likeDiaz are there to defend themselves and survive.

It speaks VOLUMES when at a pre fight media conference the media gets on Nick, and a a genuine guy like Matt Mitrione defends him and basically tells the reporter to shut up. It shows how much respect Nick has from his peers. And shows that behind the scenes and not in front of a camera...Nick is a good guy and people like him.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I don't see that as taunting. I see that as him expressing his feelings and unable to control himself.


That right there explains it all. 

Not everyone is brought up the same. Not everyone has the same education. Not everyone is wired the same way.

You are out of tune with reality. And the real world. 

In the end these are fighters. Some are superstars. Some are just guys doing what they love and making a living.

Picking apart every piece of a guys highly publicized life is ridiculous. As if they aren't human. 

If everyone in MMA was GSP, it would be ridiculous.

God for bid people be who they are, and people have different personalities.

But hey, I've met guys like you in my life. The people who like to find fault with everything a person does...because they are different.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I love a that a total Chael backer ...starts back peddling when Chael's name is brought up. I"M MAKING IT ABOUT CHAEL...you have a problem with that?


*facepalm* You just don't get it.

I have no problem with you making it about Chael. There are plenty of other threads for that though where I've gone over this same topic. This thread is about DIAZ. Not Chael. Please find me one Chael thread where I bring up Diaz? 

Your defense for Diaz being a dick is "So what. So is Chael and you like him too". Chael and Diaz have nothing in common... at all. It's a weak defense that's not even remotely relevant.



> The point is, anyone that backs Chael and says he's a good guy...then goes off and says Nick is disrespectful is a total hypocrite. Which you are. You can hide from that fact, but I'll point it out.


I'm not hiding from anything bud. I don't know if Chael is a "good guy". He does play the bad guy role a lot and does it well. He's a PR master and has become one of the sports most popular athletes because of it. Is he "bad guy"? Dunno. It's hard to tell the real Chael from the in front of the camera Chael.

There's nothing to tell about Diaz. You are 100% right in he is what he is. He doesn't play any roles. He is an asshole and he has no problem showing it.



> You may not be totally wrong about Diaz. I'm not saying he's some angel. But its just sad that the same person that backs a fake person like Chael is going to bad mouth a dude who doesn't put together the best sentences, or doesn't handle interviews the best. Not every kid growing up is taught the same tools. Guys likeDiaz are there to defend themselves and survive.


Guys like Diaz don't have respect for anyone or look out for anything other than their own best interest. Most guys like Diaz end up in jail or on the streets. Luckily Diaz has a talent that he's relied on his entire life.



> It speaks VOLUMES when at a pre fight media conference the media gets on Nick, and a a genuine guy like Matt Mitrione defends him and basically tells the reporter to shut up. It shows how much respect Nick has from his peers. And shows that behind the scenes and not in front of a camera...Nick is a good guy and people like him.


So he's a good guy? I can find just about any gangster, tweaker, or prisoner who has a family member or friend somewhere that says they are a "good person". Because they were good to that one person and an asshole to everyone else makes them a "good guy"? Give me a break.

I can also say that is speaks "VOLUMES" (LOL) when guys like Brian Stann and Mark Munoz talk about how good of a guy Chael is too. I would never resort to such a pathetic argument though. Chael plays the bad guy. People don't like him for it. I accept that and understand why. Something you are completely incapable of doing with Diaz.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> That right there explains it all.
> 
> Not everyone is brought up the same. Not everyone has the same education. Not everyone is wired the same way.
> 
> ...


I literally LOLd at this.

I work full time every week dealing with reality. I deal with things and situations you probably know next to nothing about. I deal with the good and the bad. I see the harshness of reality every single day.

You however are intent on defending a guy who dis-respects everyone; including the fans, the company he works for, and his opponents.

Then you think its okay for him to dis respect everyone because he "was raised different". I don't care how you are raised. There is a time when you become an adult, accept responsibility for your actions, and do your job like every other responsible adult. He does none of this, and you STILL defend him. You are the one detached from reality bud. Excuses that you were raised different, so you can't take responsibility for your actions don't fly in the real world. It's obvious you don't have much experience in the real world otherwise you would understand this.

Guys like Diaz are the perfect example of everything that's wrong in professional sports and arguably society. They don't care about anyone other than themselves, they aren't productive members of society, and they constantly blame other people for their problems.

But that's all okay because he was raised differently :confused05:

I'm sure you know a lot of guys like me too. Because you know me so well from reading some posts on an online forum. Get over yourself dude. You're defending the indefensible and not even doing a sub par job at it.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Since it went to comparing asshole levels with Chael, I think Diaz's asshole persona is just as much of an act as Chaels. Everyone who's been interviewed about Diaz in the offtime says he's a great person to be around. He's got a gritty way of selling fights, while Chael has a more white collar dirty politician way of doing it, both are assholes while selling fights, respectively. 
Munoz is the first to say Chael is a nice guy outside the UFC, while i've heard numerous say Diaz is as well, including people he fights, so that's all I can go off until I meet either (prolly won't happen).


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

I highly doubt the Diaz brothers put on acts.

Diaz comes off as paranoid and has this whole me against the world mentality, his brother is the same way and I believe that's legit how they are. If anyone saw Diaz at the UFC 137 post fight press conference he just kept babbling about how if he was making just a piece of what Mayweather was making everyone he knew would be taken care of and this and that. Chael mostly just talks crap for hype and to sell his fight.


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I literally LOLd at this.
> 
> I work full time every week dealing with reality. I deal with things and situations you probably know next to nothing about. I deal with the good and the bad. I see the harshness of reality every single day.
> 
> ...


I disagree so much. So much.

Guys like Floyd Mayweather (sp?) are what's wrong with sports. Nick Diaz goes in there and puts on a show and shakes the guys hand afterwards.

I really don't get what is so indefensible about anything he has done. Missing a press conference was irresponsible I guess, but Jesus, you make it sound like he killed somebody.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> I highly doubt the Diaz brothers put on acts.
> 
> Diaz comes off as paranoid and has this whole me against the world mentality, his brother is the same way and I believe that's legit how they are. If anyone saw Diaz at the UFC 137 post fight press conference he just kept babbling about how if he was making just a piece of what Mayweather was making everyone he knew would be taken care of and this and that. Chael mostly just talks crap for hype and to sell his fight.


You're right, I don't mean a fake act, but I doubt everyday living they act as harsh and short as they do in all our mma relations with them.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

I don't understand how pheelgood or any actual person can be so certain and convinced that Diaz is a douchebag. You're judging him entirely without ever actually meeting the man face to face. This applies to any fighter by the way. How can people be so judgemental from just a few snippets of camera footage on any human being? It's just ridiculous.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

I find Diaz annoying and I think he has some sort of paranoid mental disablity.
Harldy an angel but hardly as big of a douchebag as some people seem to think. The guy seems genuinly troubled in life.

Sure he has done some really really stupid things throughout his career but I don't think he's a bad or evil person at all.

Compared to a guy like Chael Sonnen who I personally think is a real douchbeag who lacks morals, ethics and is probably a sociopath.

Not just because of his act, I know it's a 100% fake as well, but from all of the other stuff surrounding him.

Regarding his act I know his fans say well it's such a genious thing to do "see now he's famous and makes more money".
IMO it's not genious at all, it's common knowledge that this stuff works, just most other fighters have too much pride & respect for themselves not to sink to that level just to gain fame. To actually think it's worth acting like the biggest tool on earth to get some fame is beyond me.
Put that together with the stuff he has done out of his fake character and we have a complete douche.

If I had to chose either guy I would MUCH rather hang out with Diaz than with Sonnen.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

People forget that Nick Diaz is a very active fighter, and he trains harder than most. Any lingering problems he has grown up with have not had much time to be rectified properly, the guy is a fighter in every sense of the word and what he may lack in life skills, he makes up for in the cage. Because of this, he is earning more money than most people on internet forums and people should not be so judgemental of him.

To say that everyone 'grows up' at some point in life is true, but if you've experienced consistantly rough times growing up, you will understand that some people take a long time to do it. Diaz is about as successful career-wise as a 28 year old person can hope to be, he has not stopped since he started and one day, when fighting is not his priority, he will 'grow up'.

Until then, just enjoy the fights and wish Condit good luck.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> I don't understand how pheelgood or any actual person can be so certain and convinced that Diaz is a douchebag. You're judging him entirely without ever actually meeting the man face to face. This applies to any fighter by the way. How can people be so judgemental from just a few snippets of camera footage on any human being? It's just ridiculous.


Brock can flip Mir off, get in his face after a beat down. Tell off a sponsor of the UFC, tell the world he's going home to bone his woman...and that isn't as bad as Daiz flipping a guy or 2 off that he is in the middle of a fight with.

Chael can say anything disrespectful he wants because it is a "WWE ACt". That no one else plays. He can say he wants to slap a guys wife on the ass. He can basically mock a country and say Brazil is a 3rd world country. Yet that isn't as disrespectful as Diaz flipping off guys that are trying to rip his head off.

Aoki can break a dudes bone, then get up and give him a hardcore middle finger while the dude is just laying there...yet it isn't as disrespectful as Diaz flipping a guy off in fight.

It is all hypocritical. And only hypocrites think that way. Which Pheely is.


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> I don't understand how pheelgood or any actual person can be so certain and convinced that Diaz is a douchebag. You're judging him entirely without ever actually meeting the man face to face. This applies to any fighter by the way. How can people be so judgemental from just a few snippets of camera footage on any human being? It's just ridiculous.


Personally I don't see why people get so defensive about Diaz. I'm with pheelgood I think he is a DB. Nick is a good fighter. I won't say great yet, beating BJ was impressive, but let's face it BJ isn't quite at the level he used to be. Now that Nick is in the UFC we will get to see how good he really is.

From most of the interviews I have heard he hates what he does, so I could only imagine how could he could be if liked to fight.

I see people do things all the time that make me think they are a DB, and I don't know them personally, we all do it. I have more than enough snippets to make my judgement of Diaz. Of coarse my views on douchebaggery and yours may differ.


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Brock can flip Mir off, get in his face after a beat down. Tell off a sponsor of the UFC, tell the world he's going home to bone his woman...and that isn't as bad as Daiz flipping a guy or 2 off that he is in the middle of a fight with.


That was a DB move, but he did apologize and Brock went and did a season of TUF, even though he hates being in front of the camera. All we ever got from Nick about missing press conferences was how it was stupid or someone else's fault.



jonnyg4508 said:


> Chael can say anything disrespectful he wants because it is a "WWE ACt". That no one else plays. He can say he wants to slap a guys wife on the ass. He can basically mock a country and say Brazil is a 3rd world country. Yet that isn't as disrespectful as Diaz flipping off guys that are trying to rip his head off.
> 
> Aoki can break a dudes bone, then get up and give him a hardcore middle finger while the dude is just laying there...yet it isn't as disrespectful as Diaz flipping a guy off in fight..


I really have no opinion on Chael but I lean towards DB. Anyone that runs for political office probably is. I am with you on Aoki though, that guy is a real dick. But so is Diaz.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Brock can flip Mir off, get in his face after a beat down. Tell off a sponsor of the UFC, tell the world he's going home to bone his woman...and that isn't as bad as Daiz flipping a guy or 2 off that he is in the middle of a fight with.


Brock is a DB... almost as big as Diaz is. 

You are totally missing the point... yet again. It's not the fact that he just flips guys off in the middle of the fight. It's the fact that everything he does is 100% about him. Not that I'm against selfish people, but there is a time and place (especially in professional sports) where you should have some common decency and respect for other people. He doesn't think he has to abide by the rules that everyone else does. Then you throw the dis-respect and attitude on top of that.



> Chael can say anything disrespectful he wants because it is a "WWE ACt". That no one else plays. He can say he wants to slap a guys wife on the ass. He can basically mock a country and say Brazil is a 3rd world country. Yet that isn't as disrespectful as Diaz flipping off guys that are trying to rip his head off.


Actually I hate the WWE. Sonnen reminds me of a young Chevy Chase. Do I get mad when I watch a comedy and people say funny dis-respectful shit? No I don't. Thats why I don't mind Chael. It's an act.



> Aoki can break a dudes bone, then get up and give him a hardcore middle finger while the dude is just laying there...yet it isn't as disrespectful as Diaz flipping a guy off in fight.


Yes, it is. Where have I ever even mentioned Aoki? Jeez dude. Now your grasping at straws and putting words in my mouth I never even said. You keep pointing fingers at everyone else instead of looking at Diaz. You're like a child who did something bad and says it's okay because someone else did something worse. The logic just isn't there.



> It is all hypocritical. And only hypocrites think that way. Which Pheely is.


:confused05:


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## Hexabob69 (Nov 8, 2008)

It is almost shameful to post here, after all the off-track flaming and sh1t. But I do believe this will be a great fight; and then when the winner faces GSP and possibly wins it will be said that GSP was past prime or never fully recovered. In the end I think that regardless of who wins we have 2 exciting fighs in the WW and I will enjoy watching both.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Term said:


> That was a DB move, but he did apologize and Brock went and did a season of TUF, even though he hates being in front of the camera. All we ever got from Nick about missing press conferences was how it was stupid or someone else's fault.
> 
> 
> 
> I really have no opinion on Chael but I lean towards DB. Anyone that runs for political office probably is. I am with you on Aoki though, that guy is a real dick. But so is Diaz.


I think Diaz has since apologized. Maybe not a legit one, but he said its on him and he's ready to move forward. His pre fight presser for the Penn fight was actually really good. He was pretty funny and answered any question the media had for him.

Diaz is a dick sometimes. I just like the fact that it seems to be genuine. He gets fired up when he fights. That gets him going. I like the fact that he doesn't try to run to a camera to be a dick. You wouldn't hear from him all year if it was up to him. Only dick move you'd see all year is him taunting his opponent...who usually talks shit about him to start.

Look at Ellenberger, Condit, and Fitch. They have all bad mouthed Diaz and said they would beat him. And basically said he doesn't deserve a shot right away. Anyone that expects him to be a gentlemen to these guys is out of their mind. He's the sort of guy who doesn't want a bunch of friends. He said that he doesn't enjoy fighting. He does it to earn a living. He genuinely has to sike himself up to really want to beat up a guy. Thats just who he is.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

I'll shut up about it now. But MMA Diaz who hypes a fight and himself up to fight, isn't exactly the Nick Diaz in every day life around people he likes to be around. Seems like a normal dude to me. Much more well-rounded person than most MMA fighters.






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilhOUirYdpM&feature=related

^^^ I guess I don't know how to imbed a youtube video. But its a day in the life of Nick Diaz.


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I think Diaz has since apologized. Maybe not a legit one, but he said its on him and he's ready to move forward. His pre fight presser for the Penn fight was actually really good. He was pretty funny and answered any question the media had for him.
> 
> Diaz is a dick sometimes. I just like the fact that it seems to be genuine. He gets fired up when he fights. That gets him going. I like the fact that he doesn't try to run to a camera to be a dick. You wouldn't hear from him all year if it was up to him. Only dick move you'd see all year is him taunting his opponent...who usually talks shit about him to start.
> 
> Look at Ellenberger, Condit, and Fitch. They have all bad mouthed Diaz and said they would beat him. And basically said he doesn't deserve a shot right away. Anyone that expects him to be a gentlemen to these guys is out of their mind. He's the sort of guy who doesn't want a bunch of friends. He said that he doesn't enjoy fighting. He does it to earn a living. He genuinely has to sike himself up to really want to beat up a guy. Thats just who he is.


I saw Nick on Inside MMA and he didn't do that bad. Most of the time he just gave short one two word answers, which for him is probably best. At one point he went on a bit of a rant and I can't really remember what it was about now, but all in all he didn't do that bad.

The trash talking stuff is really not that big a deal to me, it's the other stuff. The missed press conference, The CBS debacle. I think the first time I saw him fight was against Diego, and even after Diego beat him he was still trash talking. Then I remember the first KJ fight when KJ cut him and they stopped the fight and he left the ring flipping everybody off. Just never liked him.

Still, he is an exciting fighter and always comes to fight. What I, or anyone thinks about him personally, is not really important. He is what he is and thinking that makes him more genuine or real than someone else, say like GSP, just doesn't really fly in my book.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I think condit takes it via KO round 1. But if it passes the 2nd round its all diaz.


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## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

Just a few things:

1/ Chins
Number of times Diaz has been knocked out: 2
Number of times Condit has been knocked out: 0
Number of times Diaz has been wobbled/dropped: I can't count that high.


2/ Condit has been a champ and defended (3x) the WW belt in the WEC. It's an intangible, but in my books, should be factored in.

3/ Striking defense and KO power: Dias has really shown very little of the former, and Condit seems to have plenty of the latter.

This is really a fantastic fight. I think I'll have to go with Xeb' on this one: Condit blasts Diaz early, or Diaz pitty-pats his way to a decision.

.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

H33LHooK said:


> Just a few things:
> 
> 1/ Chins
> Number of times Diaz has been knocked out: 2
> ...


Nick has been knocked out once, almost 10 years ago. The second TKO on his record is by KJ and it's due to a cut stoppage. Facts are crazy sometimes I know especially when you are trying to make a counter argument, facts be damned.

Condit has been submitted 3 times but I don't see that on your 3 points even though it is relevant being that Diaz is a more than capable submission artist. If you are going to judge KO's on Condit's power (which he has) and Diaz record (already challenged, see first paragraph) then you should do the same with submissions.

Condit has a decision loss to Jake Shields and I think Nick is a more dangerous fighter without a doubt. Striking defense and power I think you are right. Nick certainly hasn't shown much striking defense but the funny thing about that is that his opponents usually take 2x amount of damage that he does. When you are getting tagged and thrown off your equilibrium it's harder to maintain KO power.

The pit pats thing needs to rest. 50% of Nick victories (13 out of 26 wins) have been by KO/TKO. You don't win half of your fights with KO's and have no power. You don't KO Daley with no power, you don't wobble one of the hardest chins (BJ) with no power. He might not have one punch KO power but that doesn't mean he doesn't have power. He's a volume puncher, doesn't brawl his punches (prefers to tag or contact punch until he hurts you then he unloads with full power) which is
one of the reasons he doesn't tire.

So Condit's 3 times defending his WEC title is a factor, but Diaz 3 time defense of his Strikeforce WW championship isn't mentioned? Why is one an intangible but the other isn't?

This is a very close fight, both are really impressive fighters. Obviously I am a Diaz fan if you haven't figured out so I think Diaz will win. I just see him presenting problems for Condit. If Condit is smart, he'll use lots of Muay Thai, lots of legs kicks and different attacks. If he isn't smart he'll box with Diaz and lose.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Nick Diaz has the most overrated BJJ in MMA right now.


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## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

First, please realize that I was simply pointing out a few things as food for discussion.



> Condit has been submitted 3 times but I don't see that on your 3 points even though it is relevant being that Diaz is a more than capable submission artist. If you are going to judge KO's on Condit's power (which he has) and Diaz record (already challenged, see first paragraph) then you should do the same with submissions.


I also didn't include the fact that half of Condit's wins (13 of 26?) are via sub. That's quite relevant as well, but again, I was just throwing some things out there.



> Condit has a decision loss to Jake Shields and I think Nick is a more dangerous fighter without a doubt. Striking defense and power I think you are right. Nick certainly hasn't shown much striking defense but the funny thing about that is that his opponents usually take 2x amount of damage that he does. When you are getting tagged and thrown off your equilibrium it's harder to maintain KO power.


Nick is the more dangerous fighter at WW.
_Edited to add: Specifically, Nick is more dangerous than Jake at WW._



> The pit pats thing needs to rest. 50% of Nick victories (26 wins) have been by KO/TKO. You don't win half of your fights with KO's and have no power. You don't KO Daley with no power, you don't wobble one of the hardest chins (BJ) with no power. He might not have one punch KO power but that doesn't mean he doesn't have power. He's a volume puncher, doesn't brawl his punches (prefers to tag or contact punch until he hurts you then he unloads with full power) which is
> one of the reasons he doesn't tire.


You're right in that Nick uses an accumulation of punches to accomplish his KO/TKO's- the majority of which are shoeshine/pitty-pat. I have no metrics, but I suspect the ratio of damaging shots vs pp punches is something in the neighborhood of 1:4.
It's not meant as an insult; it's just his fight style, IMO.



> So Condit's 3 times defending his WEC title is a factor, but Diaz 3 time defense of his Strikeforce WW championship isn't mentioned? Why is one an intangible but the other isn't?


Again, I was just providing some more info. I suspected that there were _far_ more members here who already knew that Diaz was a title-holder. 


> This is a very close fight, both are really impressive fighters. Obviously I am a Diaz fan if you haven't figured out so I think Diaz will win. I just see him presenting problems for Condit. If Condit is smart, he'll use lots of Muay Thai, lots of legs kicks and different attacks. If he isn't smart he'll box with Diaz and lose.


Yes, I sussed out the fact that you're a fan of Diaz.  I, on the other hand, am a fan of neither. As an unbiased observer, I absolutely agree that it's a very close fight to call, but if I _had_ to make a pick, I'd go with Condit due to the power of his shots, and the savagery of his attack.

.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Yeah man I know you were pointing out certain facts, as was I . You make some valid points as an objective observer which is quite refreshing considering Nick's polarizing effects on people (myself included).

I try to be as realistic as possible when judging a fight and try not to let my hatedom, or fandom cloud it (hard to do sometimes). 

Personally I think Condit is a hell of a fighter and has impressed me a quite a few occasions. This fight is going have some fireworks right from the start.

BTW I thought 



> You're right in that Nick uses an accumulation of punches to accomplish his KO/TKO's- the majority of which are shoeshine/pitty-pat. I have no metrics, but I suspect the ratio of damaging shots vs pp punches is something in the neighborhood of 1:4.
> It's not meant as an insult; it's just his fight style, IMO.


was right on the money. I agree with the speculative ratio...sounds about right.


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## cookiefritas (Jun 17, 2011)

Diaz has good punching power, there is no doubt about that; he just doesn't seem to step into his punches much. The issue is that sooner or later he will lose his chin, he gets wobbled a ton, so you know its only a matter of time before someone puts him to sleep for good, I think Condit will be that man. Condit is a good finisher, if he wobbles Diaz a couple of times, I can see him finishing it early.

If Condit does not finish Diaz in the first 3 rounds, he will get finished himself in the later rounds. No only does Diaz have an impressive gas tank, but he chips away at his opponents gas tank by working the body from the beginning of fights.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...Condit is a very good, tough, well rounded fighter but he won't be able to handle the kind of pressure, pace, taunting and sick boxing skills that Nick will put on him. *Someone saying that Nick's BJJ is overrated is like saying the hands of JDS are overrated. Way off base there.* Nick is gonna keep moving forward and keep cutting Condit off, get his back against the cage and unload a ton of body and head punches. Just ask Nick's last 10 opponents he's finished that very same way. Nobody has ever put a beating on Penn like Nick did. I seriously doubt Condit could do something like that to B.J. Nick has this fight all the way. I can't understand why Condit would be a slight betting favorite. Nick is on a level that Condit has yet to reach...


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## cookiefritas (Jun 17, 2011)

BrutalKO said:


> ...Condit is a very good, tough, well rounded fighter but he won't be able to handle the kind of pressure, pace, taunting and sick boxing skills that Nick will put on him. *Someone saying that Nick's BJJ is overrated is like saying the hands of JDS are overrated. Way off base there.* Nick is gonna keep moving forward and keep cutting Condit off, get his back against the cage and unload a ton of body and head punches. Just ask Nick's last 10 opponents he's finished that very same way. Nobody has ever put a beating on Penn like Nick did. I seriously doubt Condit could do something like that to B.J. Nick has this fight all the way. I can't understand why Condit would be a slight betting favorite. Nick is on a level that Condit has yet to reach...


Styles make fights. Condit has good power and Diaz has a bad defense, odds are that Diaz will eat the first bomb and get wobbled badly by it. If you bet on Diaz, you are hoping that he can take 4-5 solid power punches and not end up face down and ass up. Diaz has a good chin and good recovery, but he seems to get hit clean and hard at least a couple of times per fight, that is not good when you face a great striker. Diaz will stand flat footed, with no head movement and with his hands by his waist and bang with Condit that way, he has made it work for a while but he is due to get Koed.

BJ Penn's standup is overrated now a days, he has gotten worked by Frankie, St. Pierre, and Diaz standing in his last couple of fights. BJ has good standup, but not great.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

khoveraki said:


> Nick Diaz has the most overrated BJJ in MMA right now.


What are you basing that off? Aside from a general dislike of him as a person.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

cookiefritas said:


> BJ Penn's standup is overrated now a days, he has gotten worked by Frankie, St. Pierre, and Diaz standing in his last couple of fights. BJ has good standup, but not great.


Frankie has some of the best boxing in the business movement wise. GSP is a good striker himself but looks better than he is because of his opponents fear of the takedowns. BJ without a doubt has some of the best boxing overall (power, speed, accuracy, head movement) and was getting the best out of Diaz in the first round before _Diaz_ gassed him out.

There's a reason why people praise (fans and fighters alike)Bj's stand up....it's because it's true for the most part.


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## cookiefritas (Jun 17, 2011)

Soakked said:


> Frankie has some of the best boxing in the business movement wise. GSP is a good striker himself but looks better than he is because of his opponents fear of the takedowns. BJ without a doubt has some of the best boxing overall (power, speed, accuracy, head movement) and was getting the best out of Diaz in the first round before _Diaz_ gassed him out.
> 
> There's a reason why people praise (fans and fighters alike)Bj's stand up....it's because it's true for the most part.


People always have an excuse for BJ. He is a great fighter, but is a glorified gatekeeper now a days. He is 3-5 over his last 8 fights, and 1-4 over his last 5, getting beat convincingly at least 3 times in that span. Just like Hughes, Fedor, Liddell, Couture; his time has passed.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

box said:


> What are you basing that off? Aside from a general dislike of him as a person.



What are you basing his BJJ prowess on? All the blackbelts he's tooled on the ground recently? Name them?


And don't say Gomi. Gomi isn't a groundfighter for one, and 2 that sub wasn't like Diaz took Gomi down and transitioned and dominated him.

People have been calling him a bjj fighter for YEARS. He isn't. Which is why he doesn't take fights to the ground and why he got dominated by wrestlers. It just makes his standup look more impressive by saying "ooh and he beat him standing evennthough he's a bjj guy!!!"


No, he isn't, he's a striker with no wrestling. People are acting like he subbed Penn or something.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

My dislike of Diaz is very, very well-known. Everything Diaz is, is something that I stand against. 

As a fighter, he's hard to bet against. I was sure Penn would smash him, and he proved me wrong and I lost some very hefty bets because of it. His jiu-jitsu, cardio, and boxing are world class, and I don't think Condit has the style to beat him. GSP, Fitch, Koscheck, and Ellenberger I know can beat Diaz, but styles make fights and I think Condit will lose to Diaz by decision.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

I'd say his BJJ is above average but not as sick as some of his fans make it out to be. People claim you can't go to the ground with him but IMO any good wrestler with subdefense holds him down. His BJJ might be hard for Condit to handle should the fight go to the ground, wich I dont think it will. But Condit should be able to survive it.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

I seem to remember him stonewalling BJ on the ground something most can't do he sub's Cyborg who has a bb he's competed at ibjjf and a few other turny's and his jj is better than Condit's IMO. 

You need to be better than "any good wrestler, " just look at his fight with Sherk and Sherk is one of the most notable g&p fighters in the sport, its just not that easy.

Come to think of it who has Condit went toe to toe with that has substantial JJ chops?


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

slapshot said:


> I seem to remember him stonewalling BJ on the ground something most can't do he sub's Cyborg who has a bb he's competed at ibjjf and a few other turny's and his jj is better than Condit's IMO.
> 
> You need to be better than "any good wrestler, " just look at his fight with Sherk and Sherk is one of the most notable g&p fighters in the sport, its just not that easy.
> 
> Come to think of it who has Condit went toe to toe with that has substantial JJ chops?


Well that's kind of my point, I think the better wrestlers in the division can outgrapple Diaz, Like Sherk and all the guys who are better than him like GSP, Kos, Fitch, Ellenberger etc. Condit isn't one of these guys and I believe that he is outmatched on the mat, but I think should he end up on the ground he can just scramble up pretty quick. Just look att what he did against DHK and that guy is a serious Judoka.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

mmaswe82 said:


> Well that's kind of my point, I think the better wrestlers in the division can outgrapple Diaz, Like Sherk and all the guys who are better than him like GSP, Kos, Fitch, Ellenberger etc. Condit isn't one of these guys and I believe that he is outmatched on the mat, but I think should he end up on the ground he can just scramble up pretty quick. Just look att what he did against DHK and that guy is a serious Judoka.


The Sherk fight was almost 6 years ago and Nick stuffed 16/18 of his takedowns, i guarantee his grappling is better now. Condit is really good on the ground aswell, loves to play guard and strike off of his back.

A lot of people are mentioning that Nick gets rocked a lot, but Condit got rocked hard in the Ellenberger fight (almost KOed 4 times in the first round). This will be a great fight, but i feel that Nick has the advantage in boxing and jiu jitsu while Condit has the advantage in wrestling and muay thai. 

I can't say Nick's cardio is better (when on paper it might look that way) because i've never seen Condit gas, and he usually comes on stronger as the fight progresses.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

MRBRESK said:


> The Sherk fight was almost 6 years ago and Nick stuffed 16/18 of his takedowns, i guarantee his grappling is better now. Condit is really good on the ground aswell, loves to play guard and strike off of his back.
> 
> A lot of people are mentioning that Nick gets rocked a lot, but Condit got rocked hard in the Ellenberger fight (almost KOed 4 times in the first round). This will be a great fight, but i feel that Nick has the advantage in boxing and jiu jitsu while Condit has the advantage in wrestling and muay thai.
> 
> I can't say Nick's cardio is better (when on paper it might look that way) because i've never seen Condit gas, and he usually comes on stronger as the fight progresses.


Condit gassed pretty bad against Hiromitsu Miura. Fantastic fight by the way, well worth a watch.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

cookiefritas said:


> People always have an excuse for BJ. He is a great fighter, but is a glorified gatekeeper now a days. He is 3-5 over his last 8 fights, and 1-4 over his last 5, getting beat convincingly at least 3 times in that span. Just like Hughes, Fedor, Liddell, Couture; his time has passed.


I agree that his best days are behind him, and I am certainly not trying to make excuses for him. But that doesn't change his stand-up which has always been his strong point (which we were talking about SPECIFICALLY).

Just to comment on his 1-4 on last 5. I am one of those people that hate just taking random numbers and throwing them on to prove a point but not providing the context behind them. First of all he is 1-3 (2 loses coming from Frankie who stylistically is a bad match up) and Nick Diaz who is ranked top 5 (WW) in most lists and has been dominant for the past 5 fights. The other loss you have their is actually a DRAW with what many consider the 2nd best WW in the world for 4 years now Jon Fitch (which he dominated for 2 rounds, something no one outside of GSP has done).

Of course lets not take into consideration that he is fighting out of his natural weight class because the title holder of his natural weight class has his number. Those aren't excuses they are facts.

And why would you just go back 8 fights (3-5 over last 8, actually 3-4 and one DRAW)? Why not go back 11 (6-4 and one draw)? His loses during that span? One to Diaz (top 5 WW, IMO Top 2), 2 to Frankie (top 10, and in some top 5 P4P lists) and one to GSP (most dominant WW ever). 

But of course lets not talk about actual opponents, lets just throw numbers up there to prove a point :confused05:


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Yeah soaked but you could say the same to discredit him. His only win in ages was against an out of his prime Hughes, after he lost twice to a guy who gets clobbered in every title defense, then he was the only person ever to lose a 10-8 round to Fitch. Then you could even say his only title defenses were against a guy who hasn't fought in years, and two guys no longer even in that weight class. Oh yeah, and the guy he fought for the belt was cut from the UFC after going 0-4. 


I'm not a BJ Penn hater, I'm just saying it's easy to word things one way or another, it means nothing.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> Yeah soaked but you could say the same to discredit him. His only win in ages was against an out of his prime Hughes, after he lost twice to a guy who gets clobbered in every title defense, then he was the only person ever to lose a 10-8 round to Fitch. Then you could even say his only title defenses were against a guy who hasn't fought in years, and two guys no longer even in that weight class. Oh yeah, and the guy he fought for the belt was cut from the UFC after going 0-4.
> 
> 
> I'm not a BJ Penn hater, I'm just saying it's easy to word things one way or another, it means nothing.


From this post I gather you don't think highly of Frankie Edgar, Jon Fitch and Nick Diaz. So obviously our opinions differ dramtically in that sense. But that's great thing about opinions they are totally subjective. 

In all honestly I rather a post like yours in proving a point as opposed to a post of simply stating numbers (without context) even though I _completely_ disagree with you :thumb02:

But on a other note, the funny thing about someone not in a original conversation (yourself) is that they usually comment on the last post rather than seeing how the conversation came to be. If you read my original post I was commenting on *BJ's striking prowess*, NOT his record, and not his legacy or legitimacy in ranking. 

In the reply, the gentlemen stated numbers which I felt I needed to clarify because IMO they did not tell the entire story. Funny thing about forums eh?


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

I don't have strong feelings on Penn, Diaz or Fitch. Although I think Diaz is overrated at this point. 



On BJs striking, well he was winning every exchange in round 1 easily, and grappling wise he took Diaz' back pretty quick. 


I think Diaz always beats him in a fight but in a gym, sparring etc I bet BJ is always better.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Yeah BJ was getting the better of Diaz in round 1 I agree. Diaz has solid boxing, some of the best in that weight class so IMO that says a lot about BJ. Maybe Nick is being overrated a bit by some (I try my best not to fall into that trap) but I do also think a lot of people underate him as well. The truth is usually somewhere between the extremes.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Diaz wins this, obviously. What's carlos gonna do? get his dad to revoke nick's medical marijuana prescription?



ok, i guess i was reaching a little there.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> What are you basing his BJJ prowess on? All the blackbelts he's tooled on the ground recently? Name them?
> 
> 
> And don't say Gomi. Gomi isn't a groundfighter for one, and 2 that sub wasn't like Diaz took Gomi down and transitioned and dominated him.
> ...



I love people that rant and rave without a clue in the world. It's funny.

So you expect him to beat black belts...which he isn't fighting. Is he supposed to pick his fights? What the hell do you expect him to do?

He just sub'd Cyborg last year. He is a blackbelt. He was only sub'd one other time in his 30 some fight career.

You are basing his skills now on what he did in the UFC years ago when he was a 23 year old kid? Why? How does that even make sense.

Face it, you are just blabbering away and make little to no sense. And you are factually wrong.

Get a clue:confused03:


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Yep you showed me. He submitted Cyborg who is 18-15 and has been submitted before. Other than that he hasnt faced any other blackbelts (you admitted it) besides Penn who took his back instantly. 



Yeah he's the best BJJ guy ever, totally deserves all that praise he gets for it.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> Yep you showed me. He submitted Cyborg who is 18-15 and has been submitted before. Other than that he hasnt faced any other blackbelts (you admitted it) besides Penn who took his back instantly.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah he's the best BJJ guy ever, totally deserves all that praise he gets for it.


nick is a legit bjj black belt, he just doesnt play an aggressive bjj game, he likes to work to stand up and bang. and he is of course a mediocre wrestler. Nick has fought tons of guys who are strong submission grapplers of some kind or another and never been subbed. not once in an mma bout. and he's not doing it with counter-wrestling skills like many of the wrestler-boxers do. his bjj skill is fully apparent in his defense on the ground if nothing else.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

HexRei said:


> nick is a legit bjj black belt, he just doesnt play an aggressive bjj game, he likes to work to stand up and bang. and he is of course a mediocre wrestler. Nick has fought tons of guys who are strong submission grapplers of some kind or another and never been subbed. not once in an mma bout. and he's not doing it with counter-wrestling skills like many of the wrestler-boxers do. his bjj skill is fully apparent in his defense on the ground if nothing else.


Yes agreed but that's not the point. People are acting like Diaz has some next-level terrifying BJJ, the likes of which GSP has never seen before. 


When in reality it isn't better than Fitch, Penn, or Shields BJJ.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> Yes agreed but that's not the point. People are acting like Diaz has some next-level terrifying BJJ, the likes of which GSP has never seen before.
> 
> 
> When in reality it isn't better than Fitch, Penn, or Shields BJJ.


I agree, but those guys are also incredible grapplers at the pinnacle of mma grappling. its not bad company to be in. i would love to see him compete with these guys in a strict grappling competition though. has he met any of them at ADCC or GQ or anything? he must have had some footage of a serious roll with shields at cesar's at least.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

HexRei said:


> I agree, but those guys are also incredible grapplers at the pinnacle of mma grappling. its not bad company to be in. i would love to see him compete with these guys in a strict grappling competition though. has he met any of them at ADCC or GQ or anything? he must have had some footage of a serious roll with shields at cesar's at least.



Shields is probably the better pure BJJ guy, they say he's subbed Marcelo Garcia a few times when they roll.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)




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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

MRBRESK said:


>


Boom, head shot.

Diaz' BJJ is a notch above Jon Fitch's. Compared to Shields, I'm not sure. The difference between Shields and Diaz is that Shields is FORCED to use his BJJ in every fight because his stand up is really poor. Shields has no choice but to get the fight to the ground as quickly as possible against pretty much every opponent. That isn't the case with Diaz. I'm sure if Diaz' stand up was as bad as Jake Shields', we'd see much more submission victories on Nick's record. Damn Nick for having some of the best hands in MMA as well as having an elite ground game.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I think Shields' ground game is better than Diaz's simply because he incorporates wrestling into his jiu-jitsu. I think on the ground at least, he has more weapons and tools than Nick does. Diaz is a straight BJJ player, but to say his jiu-jitsu is only par is silly. It's clearly some of the best in the game, or his bottom game is at least. I think Maia, Palhares, Werdum, etc. definitely have better BJJ than Diaz overall, but for the level Diaz competes at it's very good.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Ari said:


> I think Shields' ground game is better than Diaz's simply because he incorporates wrestling into his jiu-jitsu. I think on the ground at least, he has more weapons and tools than Nick does. Diaz is a straight BJJ player, but to say his jiu-jitsu is only par is silly. It's clearly some of the best in the game, or his bottom game is at least. I think Maia, Palhares, Werdum, etc. definitely have better BJJ than Diaz overall, but for the level Diaz competes at it's very good.


Are you going to leave again if Diaz beats Condit? 




khoveraki said:


> Shields is probably the better pure BJJ guy, they say he's subbed Marcelo Garcia a few times when they roll.


I've seen Marcelo tap Shields out many times, I don't think Jake is anywhere near Marcelo's level.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

MRBRESK said:


> Are you going to leave again if Diaz beats Condit?


That depends on if the person I made the original bet with returns.

I don't like Nick at all but I recognize he is a top five Welterweight. I think he beats Condit 7/10 times.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> Yeah he's the best BJJ guy ever, totally deserves all that praise he gets for it.


And there is where a guy like you back peddles and makes up things that hasn't even been said....just to suit your stupid argument.

Fact is, no one is saying Diaz has some of the best BJJ in the UFC. Is it damn good? Sure is. I don't hear that much praise for his BJJ. I hear more for his chin...his boxing gets just as much praise from fans.

Bottom line is you are making a weak attempt at backing up an exaggeration you made.



khoveraki said:


> Yes agreed but that's not the point. People are acting like Diaz has some next-level terrifying BJJ, the likes of which GSP has never seen before.


Liar.

No they aren't. Quote one guy in here who is ranting and raving about his BJJ.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> And there is where a guy like you back peddles and makes up things that hasn't even been said....just to suit your stupid argument.
> 
> Fact is, no one is saying Diaz has some of the best BJJ in the UFC. Is it damn good? Sure is. I don't hear that much praise for his BJJ. I hear more for his chin...his boxing gets just as much praise from fans.
> 
> ...


Not in this thread, but I must say I've seen many posts where people say that Diaz would beat GSP because he can't handle the guard or standup of Diaz.
There have been quite a few threads/posts where people act like Diaz is this guy that noone can go to the ground with without being subbed.
I for one don't agree with it, he's a solid blackbelt, but there are many WW in the UFC that i think would handle him fine on the ground.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

mmaswe82 said:


> Not in this thread, but I must say I've seen many posts where people say that Diaz would beat GSP because he can't handle the guard or standup of Diaz.
> There have been quite a few threads/posts where people act like Diaz is this guy that noone can go to the ground with without being subbed.
> I for one don't agree with it, he's a solid blackbelt, but there are many WW in the UFC that i think would handle him fine on the ground.


The point was this: GSP didn't want to go to the ground with Jake Shields, Nick Diaz has a better and more active guard than Jake Shields so why would GSP want to take Nick down?


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

MRBRESK said:


> The point was this: GSP didn't want to go to the ground with Jake Shields, Nick Diaz has a better and more active guard than Jake Shields so why would GSP want to take Nick down?


I think it was mostly that GSP knew it'd be a cakewalk standing, he had zero reason to take it to the ground. Hard to use it as evidence.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> I think it was mostly that GSP knew it'd be a cakewalk standing, he had zero reason to take it to the ground. Hard to use it as evidence.


Yes this. Alot of people said that GSP was afraid to go to the ground with Shields wich was hardly the case. GSP fights smart, as in it's an easier fight standing than on the ground, keep it standing. 

Nick on the other hand is easier on the ground so GSP or any other good wrestler/grappler would be wise to take it to the mat with him. I will agree that there is no such thing as an easy fight with Diaz and GSP would have to work on the ground and be careful, but there is no doubt in my mind he could hold him down and elbow his face for 5 rounds without being subbed.

Also I'm not so sure that Diaz is more dangerous on the ground than Shields. People talk about his guard being more active, but that might be because Shilds rarely end up on his back so we don't know what kind of guard he has. And when he does he uses sweeps and such to get into good positions more than going for subs on the bottom, doesn't mean he is less dangerous to take down.
I actually think Shields would be a harder man to handle on the ground than Diaz, just because Diaz goes for more submissions doesn't mean he's better.


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