# Lesnar's chin and striking finally tested *spoilers*



## MirkoCroCop1 (Nov 16, 2008)

Wow. I must say I am impressed with Couture's performance.

He was the first person to punch Lesnar and his punches didn't faze Lesnar. As we all expected, Lesnar has a good chin.

He received a cut which he didn't even notice he had until he saw the blood come into his eye.

Props to Couture. Although he was not able to out wrestle Lesnar like he did against Sylvia, he showed a gutsy performance. Lesnar was just too strong for him. And this obviously led Lesnar to winning the first round and TKOing Couture the second.

Now onto Lesnar's striking. We all thought he was showing signs of good striking ability in his fights with Mir and Herring, and in this fight he completely showed it against Couture. 

Lesnar was better at stand up than Couture tonight. He got a nice shot on Couture which I don't think Couture fully recovered from. He was wobbling. But damn, Lesnar's fists hurt. When Lesnar throws a punch it will take anyone out. 

Lesnar surprisingly outstruck Couture. Unbelievable performance on both parts. Lots of surprises.

My prediction for Lesnar vs Nog (I think Nog will beat Mir). I do not think Nog will be able to take Lesnar down, and I don't think Nog can beat Lesnar at standup. If Lesnar manages to get a good punch on Nog he can hammerfist for a TKO like he did with Couture. But other then that, I see Nog winning by submission. If Nog doesn't submit Lesnar, Lesnar will win by UD.

I am just.. amazed.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

when randy went for brock's back i thought it was over...but brock had cleary trained for it, and shrugged off the hook


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Those knees to the head hurt Randy, especially the last one he threw before Randy went down (that's actually what finished Randy).


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## MirkoCroCop1 (Nov 16, 2008)

Yeah, Lesnar destroyed Randy.

I was amazed. Randy tried to take Lesnar down, but he just could not do it. Lesnar had him mounted for a moment on the ground, I thought he was going to get TKOd there. But it was awesome.

I am still shocked at Lesnar's stand up. Him showing better stand up than Couture shocked me.


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## stitch1z (Dec 9, 2007)

> If Lesnar manages to get a good punch on Nog he can hammerfist for a TKO like he did with Couture. But other then that, I see Nog winning by submission. *If Nog doesn't submit Lesnar, Lesnar will win by UD.*


I believe Nog will submit Lesnar if it goes into the 3rd round.


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## _Destruction_ (Oct 7, 2008)

Brock gained alot of fans and respect tonight, but lesnar haters will be lesnar haters.They will still hate him and downplay his abilities even when he beats nog.

Also, those knees were SAVAGE.They literally lifted randy off the ground.Lesnar is unstoppable imo.


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## KnockedTFO! (Feb 4, 2007)

Sorry but Im not yet jumping on the Lesnar wagon.... nothing about this freak of nature impresses me... why?... because when you're 50 lbs heavier & 2x bigger than your opponents... you're not suppose to get fazed by a punch or get man handled in a wrestling war... Randy was way too small to be fighting lesnar...and yet he did pretty damn well...


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## BlitzGT (Aug 16, 2008)

KnockedTFO! said:


> Sorry but Im not yet jumping on the Lesnar wagon.... nothing about this freak of nature impresses me... why?... because when you're 50 lbs heavier & 2x bigger than your opponents... you're not suppose to get fazed by a punch or get man handled in a wrestling war... Randy was way too small to be fighting lesnar...and yet he did pretty damn well...


Yes, well before the fight, you are the same person that would argue that skill and experience would overcome strength and raw talent. Hmmm... what happened there.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

So many people are high on Lesnar's nuts tonight, it's hilarious.


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## sicc (Mar 4, 2007)

KnockedTFO! said:


> Sorry but Im not yet jumping on the Lesnar wagon.... nothing about this freak of nature impresses me... why?... because when you're 50 lbs heavier & 2x bigger than your opponents... you're not suppose to get fazed by a punch or get man handled in a wrestling war... Randy was way too small to be fighting lesnar...and yet he did pretty damn well...


I agree. If they both came into the fight at 220, Randy would have embarrassed Lesnar. It's that god damn size that wins fights, nothing more really. I mean he's a good fighter but without that size he definitely wouldn't be who he is.


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## eruss2090 (Jun 21, 2007)

I was really impressed with lesnar's all around improvements. I thought couture would hav ethe clear striking advantage, but lesnar held his own. As for randy, he took some serious shots from lesnar that he just shrugged off. Both men really impressed me


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

MirkoCroCop1 said:


> Wow. I must say I am impressed with Couture's performance.
> 
> He was the first person to punch Lesnar and his punches didn't faze Lesnar. As we all expected, Lesnar has a good chin.
> 
> ...



i thought this was a good post up until the point in *BOLD* Nog wont have to worry about taking lesnar down, lesnars gonna do that for him. 

and for the record, i still wasn't impressed at all with lesnars performance. i mean, he really didn't show me anything i didn't see in his last fight other then he was breathing alot harder towards the end of that first round.


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## eruss2090 (Jun 21, 2007)

sicc said:


> I agree. If they both came into the fight at 220, Randy would have embarrassed Lesnar. It's that god damn size that wins fights, nothing more really. I mean he's a good fighter but without that size he definitely wouldn't be who he is.


This is why Randy should be at 205...IMO


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## Future_Fighter (Feb 6, 2008)

> I agree. If they both came into the fight at 220, Randy would have embarrassed Lesnar. It's that god damn size that wins fights, nothing more really. I mean he's a good fighter but without that size he definitely wouldn't be who he is.


Well then i guess lesnar will beat everyone if size is as important as you make it out to be :thumbsdown:.


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## BlitzGT (Aug 16, 2008)

chilo said:


> i thought this was a good post up until the point in *BOLD* Nog wont have to worry about taking lesnar down, lesnars gonna do that for him.
> 
> and for the record, i still wasn't impressed at all with lesnars performance. i mean, he really didn't show me anything i didn't see in his last fight other then he was breathing alot harder towards the end of that first round.


He showed very good striking. I wouldnt assume that if he fought Nog, he would try for a td right away. With the power Lesnar packs in his canned hams, there is a very good chance he would keep the fight standing until he dazes Nog, then takes him down and gnp him out.

If the fight happens it will be a very good fight. The question is, can Nog take Lesnar down?


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## _Destruction_ (Oct 7, 2008)

sicc said:


> I agree. If they both came into the fight at 220, Randy would have embarrassed Lesnar. It's that god damn size that wins fights, nothing more really. I mean he's a good fighter but without that size he definitely wouldn't be who he is.


So how do you plan on making lesnar smaller? Build a shrinkray? lulz

I think anyone who says crap like "if lesnar were smaller..." is retarded.Lesnar is who he is.He's a huge guy.Deal with it.


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## Future_Fighter (Feb 6, 2008)

> So how do you plan on making lesnar smaller? Build a shrinkray? lulz
> 
> I think anyone who says crap like "if lesnar were smaller..." is retarded.Lesnar is who he is.He's a huge guy.Deal with it.


Lol, yup i agree.


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## KnockedTFO! (Feb 4, 2007)

sicc said:


> I agree. If they both came into the fight at 220, Randy would have embarrassed Lesnar. It's that god damn size that wins fights, nothing more really. I mean he's a good fighter but without that size he definitely wouldn't be who he is.



Thank you Sicc!!! I rest my case Lesnar nut huggers...


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## mwhite18 (Feb 3, 2008)

KnockedTFO! said:


> Sorry but Im not yet jumping on the Lesnar wagon.... nothing about this freak of nature impresses me... why?... because when you're 50 lbs heavier & 2x bigger than your opponents... you're not suppose to get fazed by a punch or get man handled in a wrestling war... Randy was way too small to be fighting lesnar...and yet he did pretty damn well...


A head is a head unless your Tito.... but if bj penn punched me in the face am i not supposed to be fazed considering I weigh 40 lbs more? Big arms/back/chest aren't going to determine your chin strength.


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## morninglightmt (Sep 7, 2008)

_Destruction_ said:


> So how do you plan on making lesnar smaller? Build a shrinkray? lulz
> 
> I think anyone who says crap like "if lesnar were smaller..." is retarded.Lesnar is who he is.He's a huge guy.Deal with it.


UFC needs to invest in shrink ray technology ASAP so we can finally determine who is best p4p :thumb02: I'll start the online petition....


Anyway, I was really impressed with Lesnar's stand up and after what he showed tonight I think he's going to be a big problem for Nog, who seems to come close to getting KTFO in almost all of his fights, but then comes back to get a sub victory.

If Lesnars stand up was lame and he got a GNP TKO over Couture I would have said Nog has this in the bag, but now I'm far less certain.

I was really hoping Couture would pull this one out though. My only consolation is I picked the winner in all the other fights on mmaplayground


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## KnockedTFO! (Feb 4, 2007)

mwhite18 said:


> A head is a head unless your Tito.... but if bj penn punched me in the face am i not supposed to be fazed considering I weigh 40 lbs more? Big arms/back/chest aren't going to determine your chin strength.



You make a good point that I forgot to point out... you can now put Lesnar in the same category with Tito too... Yes lesnar has a huge head..lol... And you aint a mma fighter that trains day & out of course BJ will knock you with a finger flick alone... regarless of how much more you weigh... but if you were a fighter you better not get fazed cus that would only mean you aint fit for MMA with that glass jaw...


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## mwhite18 (Feb 3, 2008)

KnockedTFO! said:


> You make a good point that I forgot to point out... you can now put Lesnar in the same category with Tito too... Yes lesnar has a huge head..lol... And you aint a mma fighter that trains day & out of course BJ will knock you with a finger flick alone... regarless of how much more you weigh... but if you were a fighter you better not get fazed cus that would only mean you aint fit for MMA with that glass jaw...


Disclaimer: I'm not a brock nut hugger.


Yeah brock does have a melon though.
Randy got fazed tonight..is he not fit for MMA? Only way you can train for a punch is to get punched..theres no bench press or curl for your lips,jaw or chin so brocks mass has nothing to do with randy's punches not fazing him.
And im not a fighter but according to your logic someone 40 lbs lighter shouldnt have any affect.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

mwhite18 said:


> Disclaimer: I'm not a brock nut hugger.
> 
> 
> Yeah brock does have a melon though.
> ...


actually massive traps would help stabilize his head...


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## KnockedTFO! (Feb 4, 2007)

mwhite18 said:


> Disclaimer: I'm not a brock nut hugger.
> 
> 
> Yeah brock does have a melon though.
> ...


 wth are u trying to pin me on?... you make no sense man... and you're wrong... my logic is if you're 50 lbs more than your opponent as a legit MMA fighter than no you should'nt get fazed like Brock did Vs Randy..


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## mwhite18 (Feb 3, 2008)

KnockedTFO! said:


> wth are u trying to pin me on?... you make no sense man... and you're wrong... my logic is if you're 50 lbs more than your opponent as a legit MMA fighter than no you should'nt get fazed like Brock did Vs Randy..


you make no sense... Your logic is that if someone like bj penn punched rampage dead in the face..rampage shouldnt get fazed because of the weight difference. If you were talkin about body shots that'd be one thing


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## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

morninglightmt said:


> UFC needs to invest in shrink ray technology ASAP so we can finally determine who is best p4p :thumb02: I'll start the online petition....



They would need body part selective shrink rays. Because if you shrink Lesnar down to Randy's size but keep proportions Brock would stand like 5'7" :laugh:

It would be a lot easier if we just make a bunch of robots that are all exactly the same. Then we just remotely link the minds of all the fighters into said robots. Easy.

And on the subject of a lighter guy hitting a bigger guy... I bet if you took Thiago Alves and a bunch of 220 - 250lb guys and have Alves punch them in the face those bigger guys will get fazed. Or just go watch some open weight fights or even Couture/Sylvia because a smaller guy can easily faze a bigger guy if he gets a good hit in.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

MirkoCroCop1 said:


> Wow. I must say I am impressed with Couture's performance.
> 
> He was the first person to punch Lesnar and his punches didn't faze Lesnar. As we all expected, Lesnar has a good chin.
> 
> ...


Were we watching the same fight?

Lesnars chin was NOT tested... in fact, Randy only got a glancing blow that seemed to daze him...

... and the cut was clearly bothering him.

This just tells me that Big Nog will just out box him in the stand up... and submit him if it hits the ground.

I will agree that Brock used his jab intelligently and effectively... much improved since his last fight.

Although Im not a Lesnar fan, he clearly showed me hes got what it takes to roll in the HW division.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

some people just refuse to believe Brock won, I'm glad he won, it's what the UFC needed.


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## looney liam (Jun 22, 2007)

both fighters impressed me in different ways tonight. lesnars striking, and coutures flexibility, i can't believe he almost took brocks back like that! i still don't think lesnar is the unstoppable force everyone is making him out to be though.

couture managed to pin lesnar against the cage for much of the fight. for some reason, lesnar doesn't really use any explosive strength. he shot in at couture at one point, and all he seemed to do was put his arms around him, couture easily pushed lesnar towards the cage.

also, he did mount couture, and i give him props for that. apart from that though, couture was able to get back to the feet without much trouble (apart from the end of course), something that shouldnt happen against a man brocks size. 

these little things make me believe that nogeira would manage to get a submission sooner or later.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

your mom said:


> he didnt shurgg him of he held on to his on hook stepped around and triped randys back leg and threw him around


just rewatched it and damn your right....that was nasty...brock basically grabbed a leg and whipped couture around him haha


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> just rewatched it and damn your right....that was nasty...brock basically grabbed a leg and whipped couture around him haha


I was shocked and impressed.


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## ralphbenjamin (Feb 17, 2008)

whichever side ur on.. lesnar owned randy. standup, wrestling, aggresiveness, control. Give the man time, he will dominate.


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

I don't mind his size being a factor since he can move so quickly and he is learning technique.


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## kgilstrap (Dec 3, 2006)

Fedor>all said:


> So many people are high on Lesnar's nuts tonight, it's hilarious.


Agreed. Lesnar honestly showed me that he wasnt quite the wrestler everyone thought he was, all that size and strength and randy was holding him against the cage dirty boxing him which I didn't think he was going to be strong enough to do against lesnar.


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## RaisingCajun (Jun 22, 2008)

kgilstrap said:


> Agreed. Lesnar honestly showed me that he wasnt quite the wrestler everyone thought he was, all that size and strength and randy was holding him against the cage dirty boxing him which I didn't think he was going to be strong enough to do against lesnar.


Yep. If Lesnar was not so big and strong, he would get killed in the ring. In a true wrestling match, I think Randy beats him.

Lesnar's ground game in the octagon is pretty bad. He can take people down and lay on top of them but that is about it. Dont even talk about the hammer fist and elbows. They plain suck. No one really gets hurt by them, they are just coming at a pace so fast it is hard to defend. 

Either way, Lesnar has what it takes to be a heavy weight champ. Tim Silvia did for a long time so why not Brock Lesnar?


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

ok honestly only chance nog has is to pull a guard... lesnars tdd is just to good for nog.. i can see lesnar winning UD or nog subbing him in late rounds


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## Dempsey Roll (Jun 20, 2007)

Whoever these people are that're saying that Brock outstruck Randy obviously have no idea what they're talking about. There was nothing technical about Brock's striking - he waited until Randy got close enough and just started swinging. I'll admit that he used the jab well and that he was throwing hard shots, but anyone with two arms could've done the same. Randy still had better head movement, footwork, timing, ect. If Brock was 220 with the same reach as Randy he would've gotten picked apart.

The same holds true with the grappling. Weight plays a big role in wrestling, and it showed. Randy looked like me back when I used to get matched up against the 230lb kid in wrestling practice; even if I was able to grab a leg or get underhooks I wasn't able to really do anything with them. Not because the other guy had great takedown defence, simply because his size gave him the ability to just stand there and I couldn't do anything about it. There were numerous times when Randy could have and would have taken Brock down or swept him if he just wasn't so damn big.

I have nothing against Brock. Honestly. He's a good fighter, he's just not a skilled fighter. He's one of the rare breed that are just so freakishly big or athletic that they don't really need to be skilled to do well, and it shows. In a P4P ranking of heavyweights I wouldn't say that Brock belongs anywhere near the top 5, and even top 10 is quite a stretch.


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## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

I wanted Randy to win because I hated the idea of Brock getting fast forwarded at 2-1 to a title shot (and that goes for anyone else with a 2-1 record, not just Brock).

I agree with what some people have been saying about the size factor. He is like Tim Sylvia - except the opposite way - Strength and athleticism - not height and reach. 

I feel that the UFC screwed themselves with the Ultimate Fighter once again because it froze 2 fighters for an unnecessary amount of time. The tournament should have been
Mir vs Verdum *as this was before he fought Jr.) and Nog vs Couture - winners fight each other

Then have Brock vs Jake O'Brien or Cain and let him build up.

But no - MONEY NOW! is the UFC's POV and they are effectivly trying to kill MMA - Brock is at the for front of this. He said - I am now an ULTIMATE FIGHTER! or something of the kind. He should have said I am not a Mixed Martial Artist Fighter or something...

Nog will be the champ of the UFC until Fedor comes.

NaChOmAmA


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## RenoakRhythm (Oct 6, 2008)

I think all props to Brock for winning. He showed talent, he used his strength, size and speed to his advantage. Yes he isn't the #1 skilled fighter, but he used what he had to get the win. 

I also think Randy did a great job for being as old as he is, not having a fight in quite a while and facing an opponent whose bag of talents were not a good match for him. He did very well and there were times when the fight could have gone his way. He wasn't completely dominated.

As for Nog vs Brock: Nog can take a hit better than anybody in the MMA world. He got absolutely pounded by Fedor and there was no KO or TKO. Nog has been rocked by the best in the world and just keeps on going. It basically his gameplan (not really , but it always seems to end up that way) to get hit until he is on the ground, bringing his opponent to the ground and pulling out a sub. I think there were a few times when it was really close for him even gettting a sub on Fedor, but fedor has a freakish ability to get out of those. I believe NOG will get rocked and pull out a sub. Unless his head just can't take anymore... which is going to happen one day... freaking brain damage. It should be a great fight, and I do think Brock has a good chance, but he has to be very smart and patient with Nog.

With all that being said, if Brock manages to pull the win on Nog. Obviously a Fedor fight will sometime happen, and I would most definitely put my money on Fedor. Too fast, exceptional striker, exceptional on the ground, exceptional chin, head, face, etc.


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## Slamnbam88 (Oct 23, 2006)

the only thing we saw last night was that theres a reason for weightclasses

a lhw lost to a true HW...shocking


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

Does it really matter if he beat Randy purely because he is big? In fact, it is more than that. He is as big as he is, AND he is quick and agile. That is something that other people just don't have.

Randy is one of my top 2 favorite fighters, but I am not retarded enough to try and discount Lesnar's win as being purely based on size.


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## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

Davisty69 said:


> Does it really matter if he beat Randy purely because he is big? In fact, it is more than that. He is as big as he is, AND he is quick and agile. That is something that other people just don't have.
> 
> Randy is one of my top 2 favorite fighters, but I am not retarded enough to try and discount Lesnar's win as being purely based on size.


Neither do I. But you got to admit it looked ridiculous when a 265 pound wrestler was pinned to the fence by a 220 pound wrestler. I mean, Randy, at that night, WAS a LHW, weight wise. 

And the way Lesnar looked, Quinton freakin' Jackson (if he was in a good shape) could defeat Lesnar. I mean he has heavier and better hands than Chuck and he's even stronger than Randy. Not wanting to start a debate, I think Brock showed improved technique and all, but this fight still wasn't as impressive for Brock as people make it out to be IMO.


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

man people are making big deal of brock's size.. it is not his fault that he is genetic freak and besides he did not lay on randy he knocked him out. 
oh yea and machida will beat lesnar 2 ! he is 2 elusive for lesnar ...


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

joppp said:


> Neither do I. But you got to admit it looked ridiculous when a 265 pound wrestler was pinned to the fence by a 220 pound wrestler. I mean, Randy, at that night, WAS a LHW, weight wise.
> 
> And the way Lesnar looked, Quinton freakin' Jackson (if he was in a good shape) could defeat Lesnar. I mean he has heavier and better hands than Chuck and he's even stronger than Randy. Not wanting to start a debate, I think Brock showed improved technique and all, but this fight still wasn't as impressive for Brock as people make it out to be IMO.


The only guys that have a good shot at beating Brock, IMO, are guys with top level BJJ game. Other than that, he's just too big, too fast, and too strong. Plus, with his wrestling skills, he isn't going to be taken down and GnP'd out as many other large HW's have been beaten in the past.

I didn't see anything Brock did that was unimpressive. He was fast, had crisp striking including the knees, got up from from Randy's takedown(size or not, Randy is good at his takedowns), and he finished the fight when the opportunity presented itself.


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## mwhite18 (Feb 3, 2008)

Sup with all these if's .."if brock was 220?" "If brock was a midget?" "If brock had one leg" ...it would've gone differently crap. Dana didnt extend the weight class for Brock to 265. Randy knew how big he was and could've bulked up or moved down a weightclass and forfeited his belt. In life it's either brains or brawn and its looks like brawn prevailed last night.
Do I think brock deserved a shot so soon? No. Do I think he's the next big thing? NO. But I dont think he should be bashed because he followed the rules and won.


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## Kefka (Nov 16, 2008)

MirkoCroCop1 said:


> Yeah, Lesnar destroyed Randy.
> 
> I was amazed. *Randy tried to take Lesnar down, but he just could not do it.* Lesnar had him mounted for a moment on the ground, I thought he was going to get TKOd there. But it was awesome.
> 
> I am still shocked at Lesnar's stand up. Him showing better stand up than Couture shocked me.


Well, since you registered to post this, I felt the need to register and reply to it.
If you didn't notice, Randy _picked Lesnar up off his feet_, but Brock grabbed the fence to right himself. Though he was mounted, Randy managed to get out from under the huge slab that is Brock, and back to his feet. Despite how the fight went, I think you're really overrating Brock's "domination", even though he preformed better than his previous fights (and in the end, winning).

But hey, you could just be trolling. :sarcastic03:


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

attention said:


> Were we watching the same fight?
> Lesnars chin was NOT tested... in fact, Randy only got a glancing blow that seemed to daze him...
> ... and the cut was clearly bothering him.


I don't think we were watching the same fight. Lesnar's chin was definitely tested. Randy landed a hard knee to Lesnar's jaw in the clinch along the fence, he landed a right hook FLUSH at the beginning of the second round right on the button and the cut only bothered Lesnar to the extent that he took the time to wipe the blood away. Randy was landing some good shots on Lesnar and a couple of them were VERY hard and probably would have hurt most fighters. Rewatch the fight, I just did and saw fewer hard shots than I thought from Randy but there is no doubt Randy landed several full force hard shots both knees and punches. Only thing that totally blew me away in that fight was Randy's chin, holy shit did he take some serious punishment. Uppercuts, knees, elbows and of course punches. Forget about who won or lost, this was a pretty damn good HW fight.


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## jrush3 (Nov 9, 2008)

cplmac said:


> I don't think we were watching the same fight. Lesnar's chin was definitely tested. Randy landed a hard knee to Lesnar's jaw in the clinch along the fence, he landed a right hook FLUSH at the beginning of the second round right on the button and the cut only bothered Lesnar to the extent that he took the time to wipe the blood away. Randy was landing some good shots on Lesnar and a couple of them were VERY hard and probably would have hurt most fighters. Rewatch the fight, I just did and saw fewer hard shots than I thought from Randy but there is no doubt Randy landed several full force hard shots both knees and punches. Only thing that totally blew me away in that fight was Randy's chin, holy shit did he take some serious punishment. Uppercuts, knees, elbows and of course punches. Forget about who won or lost, this was a pretty damn good HW fight.


I rewatched it... Randy landed 2 shots that could possibly be considered 'flush'; the knee and one punch.

The shot that open the cut wasnt flush, it was more glancing, which is the kind of punch that will typically open a bleeder cut like that.

The knee, IMHO, was not flush... sure Lesnar was leaning down, but Randy didnt have his hips behind that as he was busy leaning on him... it was more of a snappy knee than a 'full-body weight' knee... like the one Sherk ate.

The punch that might be considered flush was hard to tell it landed clean ... camera angle was bad.

All in all... 3 shots != chin tested.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

jrush3 said:


> I rewatched it... Randy landed 2 shots that could possibly be considered 'flush'; the knee and one punch.
> 
> The shot that open the cut wasnt flush, it was more glancing, which is the kind of punch that will typically open a bleeder cut like that.
> 
> ...












seems like he was reaching with that knee... not everything behind that


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## matt- (Mar 23, 2007)

Im not going to comment on the brock couture fight cuz im still in shock over brock being champ. Couture impressed me but so did lesnar, does he deserve to be there? Not really. Is couture getting to old to fight? i guess well see what he makes of his next fight. For a 45 year old to be out of the ring for a year. 45!!! i know he said theyre was no ring rust, but a year later, your body reacts differently.

Ok now whats next? most likly nog vs lesnar, inless some freak accident happens. This will be a fight were ether people will be proven right/wrong about lesnars skill. Nog is a profesional boxer, an amazing sub artist and a bigger fighter than randy. And has a jaw of pure steal. If lesnar pulls off a victory i think it will silence alot of skeptics. Do i think he will?? i really dont know.


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

man i loved the elbow brock landed !


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

Lesnar's striking still needs a ton of work. The main thing I was impressed about him was how composed he was when Randy tried to take his back. I really thought the nerves would have done him in since it was his 4th fight and he was already challenging for the title.

His wrestling is not as great as he claims it is. He definitely had some trouble trying to keep Randy grounded and was unable to take Randy down at will.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

sicc said:


> I agree. If they both came into the fight at 220, Randy would have embarrassed Lesnar. It's that god damn size that wins fights, nothing more really. I mean he's a good fighter but without that size he definitely wouldn't be who he is.


Yeah, and if Andy Wang came in with Bob Sapp's size, Belfort's speed, Nog's submissions, GSP's wrestling and Anderson's stiking, he would've embarrassed Brock too. What's your point? Brock is the bigger fighter and he still moved better and had the better TDD.. you say "oh he won cause he's big" like it was illegal. Sylvia was just as big, although taller and not as strong, and Couture manhandled him. But then everyone hung on Couture's nots and claimed skill > size. Now Brock won fair and square and everyone's making BS excuses. Let it go, Brock worked hard and has shown tremendous technique to supplement his natural gifts and he earned that belt. I still think guys like him will have an achilles heel in the sub game for a long time.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

attention said:


> Were we watching the same fight?
> 
> Lesnars chin was NOT tested... in fact, Randy only got a glancing blow that seemed to daze him...
> 
> ...


Watch the fight again, Randy had some pretty flush shots in some of those exchanges while they were weaving in and out, you probably didn't notice because Brock didn't get so much as dazed. He does have a good chin because like someone said, a big head surrounded by huge traps is very stable and hard to jolt. 

As for Nog outstriking Lesnar, I think that's laughable. Nog couldn't outsrike a bigger oaf like Sapp, he's certainly not going to outstrike a faster and more gifted bigger guy like Lesnar. Nog's striking is heaviliy overrated, he is and always will be a sub artist. The striking only looks good against mediocre strikers like Herring who Brock has already dominated on the feet. IMO if Nog wins, which is likely, it's going to be the same way he always wins against bigger, stronger guys - get his ass handed to him for two rounds and then pull off a miracle sub.


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

nice post ! rep


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

I see Brock as somewhere around where Koscheck was around a year & half to 2 years ago, massive amount of pure athletic ability while still being a bit raw in the skills department. But the technique is starting to come together, and in Brock's case, once he gets the basics down he's going to be hard to beat, nevermind when actually masters things.

Moving on to the fight, other than the big punch on Tim Sylvia, Randy isn't exactly known as a power striker, and that was even measured on an episode of _Fight Science_ where Bas Rutten punched the dummy almost twice as hard as Randy did. What we've learned is that Brock can take a punch which is about average, it's not like he's shrugging off a CroCop headkick or a big overhand right from Liddell.

So yes, Brock's chin was tested, but let's be honest, it wasn't exactly a hard test.


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## jrush3 (Nov 9, 2008)

aerius said:


> I see Brock as somewhere around where Koscheck was around a year & half to 2 years ago, massive amount of pure athletic ability while still being a bit raw in the skills department. But the technique is starting to come together, and in Brock's case, once he gets the basics down he's going to be hard to beat, nevermind when actually masters things.
> 
> Moving on to the fight, other than the big punch on Tim Sylvia, Randy isn't exactly known as a power striker, and that was even measured on an episode of _Fight Science_ where Bas Rutten punched the dummy almost twice as hard as Randy did. What we've learned is that Brock can take a punch which is about average, it's not like he's shrugging off a CroCop headkick or a big overhand right from Liddell.
> 
> So yes, Brock's chin was tested, but let's be honest, it wasn't exactly a hard test.


I'll agree with that assessment.


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## rdrush (Mar 5, 2007)

I wouldn't say his striking was proven. He was really sloppy and has horrible technique. Its just his fists are so damn big that they have a prety good chance at connecting. 
He could be smashing rib cages in as well with those knees, but again his technique is horrible. He is just trying to lift guys up, connecting with the top of his knee. He should be pushing his knee out, hitting with the front. That is where you generate the real power. 
He is pretty effective with sloppy technique, if he actually learns how to do it properly he is gonna be bustin bones.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

BlitzGT said:


> He showed very good striking. I wouldnt assume that if he fought Nog, he would try for a td right away. With the power Lesnar packs in his canned hams, there is a very good chance he would keep the fight standing until he dazes Nog, then takes him down and gnp him out.
> 
> If the fight happens it will be a very good fight.* The question is, can Nog take Lesnar down?*


wrong again, the real question is, can lesnar survive on the ground with Nog?

as much as you dont wanna believe it, the fight will go to ground in the 1st round.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

dontazo said:


> man i loved the elbow brock landed !


Anyone know where to find a gif of that?


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## Dempsey Roll (Jun 20, 2007)

Once again, I don't think that anyone's trying to say that Lesnar's a bad fighter by saying that he only won because he's big. They're saying that he's not very skilled. As with Tim Sylvia, his genetics give him advantages that very few fighters have. The fact of the matter is that his size and athleticism allowed him to do well despite the fact that he was the less skilled fighter. His striking is sub-par, his jiu jitsu is sub-par, and his wrestling, while good, is far from great - especially when you consider the level of grapplers that seem to have become the norm in the UFC.


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

can anyone post a gif of brocks HEllbow ?


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> So many people are high on Lesnar's nuts tonight, it's hilarious.


man if I knew you could get high on Lesnars nuts I wouldn't have smoked so much! 

jk


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## BlitzGT (Aug 16, 2008)

chilo said:


> wrong again, the real question is, can lesnar survive on the ground with Nog?
> 
> as much as you dont wanna believe it, the fight will go to ground in the 1st round.


Brock can probably knock big Nog out, so he could keep it standing. I dont see Nog being able to take Brock down. Do you?


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

MirkoCroCop1 said:


> Wow. I must say I am impressed with Couture's performance.
> 
> He was the first person to punch Lesnar and his punches didn't faze Lesnar. As we all expected, Lesnar has a good chin.
> 
> ...


Very good assessment of a great performance by both competitors. I was very impressed by Randy's ability to bully Brock, to me their wrestling seemed to cancel each other out... which is a huge statement to Randy, I do agree... Brock won the striking but I think he needs to work on it greatly, it was a little sloppy... if he refined it, it would be unstoppable.


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## _Destruction_ (Oct 7, 2008)

I think brock beats nog by (T)KO.Alot of you seem to forget nog has been dropped several times, such as what herring did to him.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

Yeah, a gif of Brock's elbow would be nice.


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## stitch1z (Dec 9, 2007)

I really wouldn't say Brock's chin was "tested". He was punched in the head, but Randy has never been known as a Knockout artist or anything.


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## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> So many people are high on Lesnar's nuts tonight, it's hilarious.


Atleast we didn't pick a silly forum name featuring his name ^^

Agreed though, great fight by both Brock and Randy. Really looking forward to see Brock vs. Mir/Nog to see how much his sub defense has improved. If he wins that even the haters have to admit him as legit champion. ^^


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

fedor's nuts are like LSD ...


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Diokhan said:


> Atleast we didn't pick a silly forum name featuring his name ^^


The man featured in my name is a lot more accomplished than Brock in MMA. But please, continue to judge my post caliber by my screenname, noob. 



dontazo said:


> fedor's nuts are like LSD ...


Exactly. :laugh:


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

milkkid291 said:


> Yeah, a gif of Brock's elbow would be nice.












this elbow?


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

i like that shot..nice short explosive elbow ...did alot of damage


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

attention said:


> this elbow?


Yes, thanks for that. I'm a HUGE fan of elbows and I'm surprised I really don't see this kind of elbow that often once fighters are in close with each other.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

why can brock use elbows standing but not when on the ground?


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

Guess he loves hammer fists.


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## Kin (May 22, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> Yeah, and if Andy Wang came in with Bob Sapp's size, Belfort's speed, Nog's submissions, GSP's wrestling and Anderson's stiking, he would've embarrassed Brock too. What's your point? Brock is the bigger fighter and he still moved better and had the better TDD.. you say "oh he won cause he's big" like it was illegal. Sylvia was just as big, although taller and not as strong, and Couture manhandled him. But then everyone hung on Couture's nots and claimed skill > size. Now Brock won fair and square and everyone's making BS excuses. Let it go, Brock worked hard and has shown tremendous technique to supplement his natural gifts and he earned that belt. I still think guys like him will have an achilles heel in the sub game for a long time.


No one's saying that Brock's win was not valid. What people are saying, which I completely agree with, is that his win was based almost entirely on his massive size advantage. A win is still a win, but it leaves me unimpressed for the most part. 

Brock's wrestling, once again, did not live up to the hype. He managed to take Couture down a couple of times with the 'gorilla-yank,' where he just pulled really hard at Couture's legs without having a particularly solid position. That wasn't a testament to his wrestling so much as his strength and massive weight advantage. 

His striking looked pretty decent, though. As others have mentioned, Brock is missing the finer points, like defense, combinations, angles, etc. But its servicable. He's big, he's fast, and he lands the shots. 

I will admit that Brock has improved, and has some skill. If not for that, his size wouldn't have been enough. Nonetheless, his skill was NOT the main reason behind his victory. Furthermore, I feel like some people are giving him more credit than he's due.

His shots still looked bad. Brock didn't outwrestle Randy so much as outmuscle him. And even then, he couldn't control him. My opinion of his wrestling is unchanged.

His JiuJitsu looks no better than before. Someone I was watching the fight with, who doesn't train or really know too much about grappling, said that Brock's 'mounting' of Couture was impressive and a good display of his improved jitz. I completely disagree. He had something akin to 'mount' but he never secured the position. For the most part all of Brock's weight was loaded on Randy's shin and when he finally cleared that, he failed to get settled so Randy escaped through the back-door within a second. 

That wasn't really mounting Randy. In NAGA, Brock wouldn't have gotten any points for that, beyond passing the guard. It's the same as when newbs think they've got side control when you're turned into them with your knee and elbow in his hip. Close-ish, but no cigar.

As for Brock throwing Randy off, that wasn't a brilliant flash of JiuJitsu so much as the giant standing up while Randy had only one hook in. Which, by the way, isn't hard to do. 

Lesnar does have skill, which compliments his size and athleticism. But it's the latter two attributes that win him fights. That's why I, personally, don't care for him that much. I like seeing technique win fights.


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## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

Everyone saying Brock won because he is big...shut up. Honestly, you guys don't even know how stupid you sound. He fought a fight as a heavyweight, that's the weightclass he was competing in and he made the required weight. It's not like he failed to make 265 and the fight had to be held at 350 pound catchweight. Randy knew EXACTLY what he was getting in to, and you guys shouldn't try to discredit Brock's win simply because he is bigger. So what? What if Randy had won? What if I were to say stupid shit like 'the only reason Randy won is because he was smaller and more experienced'. That's exactly the same stuff you guy's are suggesting, and its freaking ridiculous.


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## rickgellison (Jun 3, 2007)

MirkoCroCop1 said:


> Wow. I must say I am impressed with Couture's performance.
> 
> He was the first person to punch Lesnar and his punches didn't faze Lesnar. As we all expected, Lesnar has a good chin.
> 
> ...


Excellent post. I was thinking the same. Lesnars stand up is unbelievable for a guy who has only been in this game little over a year. He looked like a Boxer at times. 

I agree, Nog is not going to dominate Lesnar. It's either gunna be a knock out, UD or simlar to the Lesnar/Mir fight where Nog catche him and submits him. I cant see Lesnar been out wrestled or knocked out anytime soon.


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## rickgellison (Jun 3, 2007)

_Destruction_ said:


> So how do you plan on making lesnar smaller? Build a shrinkray? lulz
> 
> I think anyone who says crap like "if lesnar were smaller..." is retarded.Lesnar is who he is.He's a huge guy.Deal with it.


You took the words out of my mouth. What a pathetic excuse for people ti vilify Lesnar saying its only because he is big. Isn't Bob Sapp bigger than most?! Size has it's advantages but it's not a sure fire thing to make you win.

Oh and Lesnar has tonnes of speed and ability for a man his size. Thats another bit of Arsenal...


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## out 4 the count (Oct 13, 2008)

Lesnar just gets a lot of stick because of who he is. People who think they're true MMA fans aren't going to like him because he doesn't have any sick BJJ or Mui Thai.

The fact of the matter is though Lesnar's strength and speed are his own doing. He's worked long and hard to achieve that and it provides him with a great platform to enter MMA in. When he does finally round his arsenal off a bit he will be one hell of an MMA contender. 

I just find it sad that so many people still see him as a WWE wrestler. Had he just come into the UFC without any of his baggage he would be taken a lot more seriously by some people on here. Which is sad.


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## Kin (May 22, 2007)

Biowza said:


> Everyone saying Brock won because he is big...shut up. Honestly, you guys don't even know how stupid you sound. He fought a fight as a heavyweight, that's the weightclass he was competing in and he made the required weight. It's not like he failed to make 265 and the fight had to be held at 350 pound catchweight. Randy knew EXACTLY what he was getting in to, and you guys shouldn't try to discredit Brock's win simply because he is bigger. So what? What if Randy had won? What if I were to say stupid shit like 'the only reason Randy won is because he was smaller and more experienced'. That's exactly the same stuff you guy's are suggesting, and its freaking ridiculous.


It's stupid to say that Brock won due to size advantage? Hah! It's flat out retarded to say that he won because of anything else. And to say that he won because he is bigger isn't to discredit the win. Unless he cheated, there's no way to discredit the win. But that's not the point behind people saying that.

And if people were saying that Randy had won because he is small, that truly is stupid. Small is not an advantage. Experience is, but that is to be expected. In this sport, skill is a very valued trait, so for it to bring victory is celebrated. Brute force and massive size advantage, at least among students of the game, probably isn't so valued. As such, people will probably feel inclined to make note of the fact that Randy was not out skilled so much as out weighed and out muscled.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Kin said:


> It's stupid to say that Brock won due to size advantage? Hah! It's flat out retarded to say that he won because of anything else. And to say that he won because he is bigger isn't to discredit the win. Unless he cheated, there's no way to discredit the win. But that's not the point behind people saying that.
> 
> And if people were saying that Randy had won because he is small, that truly is stupid. Small is not an advantage. Experience is, but that is to be expected. In this sport, skill is a very valued trait, so for it to bring victory is celebrated. Brute force and massive size advantage, at least among students of the game, probably isn't so valued. As such, people will probably feel inclined to make note of the fact that Randy was not out skilled so much as out weighed and out muscled.


That's where you're wrong, small can be an advantage too. People with the "big is unfair" mindset always assume that sizw is a one-directional attribute, and he's so unskilled otherwise blah blah blah. These are the same people who rank skinny little guys like Torres or Faber consistetly as the top p4p because "if they had that skill at HW they would kill Fedor.". No shit .. the reason they have that skill, speed and aggression is BECAUSE they're small and have less bulk to haul around. Lighter weight fights are always faster paced and with more action than heavier weights, but what they have in pace they lack in power. And somehow it's unfair to rank Fedor as best p4p because he's a HW who relies more on his strength, p4p has to be a faster little guy right, cos they have "more skill"? Wrong.

Size is not a one-direction advantage, it's usually a direct tradeoff for speed and agility, Couture SHOULD'VE had the speed and movement advantage over Lesnar. The fact that Lesnar was still just as fast and agile as Randy with 60 lbs on him, said that if they were the same size, Lesnar would've been way faster and skilled and still railed him. Not Couture owning him because Lesnar lost his "unfair size advantage". And if Couture thought the size was gonna be a problem, he should've packed on some more muscle... it's not impossible. Or stayed at LHW. But no one complained against Sylvia or Gonzaga, you guys are just taking away credit from Lesnar because he owned.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

out 4 the count said:


> ...
> I just find it sad that so many people still see him as a WWE wrestler. Had he just come into the UFC without any of his baggage he would be taken a lot more seriously by some people on here. Which is sad.


Yeah, its not as if the UFC marketing hype *ever* mentioned the fact that he was part of the WWE... its not like he has a huge base of WWE fans... its not like he hasnt been in the mma game a long time... so sad that people cant over look these things


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## UseOf_A_Weapon (Aug 6, 2007)

Well, It looks like the debate is raging.

I have to say that I think this (and several other HW fights) are rediculous. This is the ONLY division in MMA where a fighter can be matched against someone who is 45lbs heavier than himself. I think it is dangerous and needs to be altered to 220-235lbs. and capped at 235. Then, if the promotion chooses, have a super HW div at 235-250 or something to that effect.

Now, everyone who is claiming that the size and weight don't make a difference have either never fought a guy that much bigger than themselves or they are habitual PCP abusers. We can all agree that Randy's arm does not weigh the same as Lesnars. So if both fighters punch accellerates at the same rate- Lesnar's punch delivers more force. It's simple physics. That size, when coupled with a natural athletic ability is a little less than fair. 

Now, the wrestling was an even match in my eyes. Randy did a good job of controlling Brock in the first. Grats to him. 

The advantage slipped to brock when brock realized he couldn't dominate Randy on the mat and resorted to stricking. Technically, his striking was no sound. But it was powerful and rocked Randy a number of times. Brock DID show that he has a strong chin and I am not about to contest that.

Yes, Randy was aware that this fight was going to be at a rediculous discrepency in terms of fighters weight. I think he was smart in not trying to bulk up just to make up the weight difference. Randy took the fight because he is a true fighter and understood that as his re-initiation to the UFC he'd have to take the fight if he ever wanted the Fedor fight to happen. 

I don't like brock, but I do have a respect for his wrestling credentials, strength and athleticism. I would just like to see him drop about 25-30lbs and see if he still preforms at the same level. I don't think he would and that's why I'm a hater.

Brock is going to have permanent Sylvia status until he either drops some weight or develops insane MT or BJJ skills. As all the old-school MMA fans will tell you- The sport is about technical ability, discipline and respect. That's what sets it apart from strongman attractions and people fighting in back yards. I think another reason a lot of us hate Brock is because of his attitude. Using his hissy-fit on the conference call interview that has now become fairly famous- he seems to bring a lot of his WWE character along with him. I don't know if that's really him or if he's doing it to get attention. Either way, I find it grossly disrespectful and unbecoming of a professional at this level in a sport that must always put it's best face forward to overcome its past.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

UseOf_A_Weapon said:


> Well, It looks like the debate is raging.
> 
> I have to say that I think this (and several other HW fights) are rediculous. This is the ONLY division in MMA where a fighter can be matched against someone who is 45lbs heavier than himself. I think it is dangerous and needs to be altered to 220-235lbs. and capped at 235. Then, if the promotion chooses, have a super HW div at 235-250 or something to that effect.
> 
> ...


well said
good points about the weight class range + brocks immature 'wwe' attitude.


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## UseOf_A_Weapon (Aug 6, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> Size is not a one-direction advantage, it's usually a direct tradeoff for speed and agility, Couture SHOULD'VE had the speed and movement advantage over Lesnar. The fact that Lesnar was still just as fast and agile as Randy with 60 lbs on him, said that if they were the same size, Lesnar would've been way faster and skilled and still railed him. Not Couture owning him because Lesnar lost his "unfair size advantage". And if Couture thought the size was gonna be a problem, he should've packed on some more muscle... it's not impossible. Or stayed at LHW. But no one complained against Sylvia or Gonzaga, you guys are just taking away credit from Lesnar because he owned.


I get what you are saying and I agree with most of it (I think Torres is #2 P4P second only to Silva and ONLY because of the caliber of fighters that Silva has put down. In a year or two I think Torres might overtake him.)

Here's the thing- Size becomes a factor in STRIKING. Weight and acceleration factor into the power of a blow. Randy could not have put on enough muscle to be competitive in striking- which is actually what lost randy the fight. Randy had good movement- but as he said after the fight it's hard to dodge those huge fists. The hit that took randy to the mat in the second round- Randy WAS dodging it, but the reach and size overcame randy's speed and caught randy in the one place you NEVER want to get hit: The center of the temple. 

If Brock had outwrestled randy. If he had beaten him on the mat. I would still be upset, but I would not be contesting Brock's validity because he would have been utilizing his true talent to reach his goal. But the one thing that brock was supposed to be better at, Randy managed to take away from him. Aside from the TDs, Brock didn't accomplish anything with his wrestling and did no striking damage from the mat in the first round. 

In short, my argument is: Brock won with striking. Would he have won a striking match with randy if he weighed in at 40lbs less? I can't say that he wouldn't but I think his chances greatly diminish because that arm no longer has as much mass behind it and thus would not deliver the same force upon impact.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

UseOf_A_Weapon said:


> Well, It looks like the debate is raging.
> 
> I have to say that I think this (and several other HW fights) are rediculous. This is the ONLY division in MMA where a fighter can be matched against someone who is 45lbs heavier than himself. I think it is dangerous and needs to be altered to 220-235lbs. and capped at 235. Then, if the promotion chooses, have a super HW div at 235-250 or something to that effect.
> 
> ...


No one is saying that size is not an advantage.. but those complaining about it need to move to a smaller division. Fedor fights 300+ lbs monsters all the time and anhillates them in seconds. He armbarred a 7'2'' 330 lb monster (Choi) in 2 mins, beat the crap out of a 400 lb accomplished kickboxer (Zuluzinho) in 26 secs, demolished the 270 lb ex UFC HW champ (Sylvia) in 36 secs, destroyed two more 300+ top kickboxers (Hunt and Schlit) easily. And he weighs in at a very pudgy 235 lbs. And IMHO he would tool Lesnar as well. If fighting and beating that guy is your aim, you need to step up to his level, not baby around in a 220-235 lbs division. 

Babying fighters with more chunked divisions is not the answer, that's what boxing did, all it does is leave a single division for every good fighter to be a champ in, and leave nothing but cans to contend with because all the good guys are champs in their own microdivision. HW is the one division where you prove your mettle and fight with a slightly larger strength differential.. if you think you have what it takes, step up, otherwise LHW is for you. Where's the confusion? No one complained when Couture came in and took the belt from a huge Tim Sylvia and fought that gorilla Gonzaga, but now everyone has a problem. And how is it any more dangerous? Yeah they can get knocked out worse, but the HW division is statistically the div with the least serious long term injuries from being in the cage. Even the couple of deaths in mma have both been in lighter weights. If anything, the easier KOs mean that they get hit less frequently and there's less chance of long term damage.

To argue that you hate Brock because he wouldn't perform as good with 25 lbs off is to say that I hate Anderson because he would get his ass kicked if he lost his Muay Thai and BJJ. Yeah, take away those knees and kicks, then we'll see who's so tough! Brock's strength and size is a legit advantage and he uses it well, with excellent wrestling, TDD and, devastating striking. No one complains about other fighters using their strengths, people need to stop hating on his just because they don't like him for his "bully"/WWE personality. Which he's growing out of anyway.. he almost made an apology for it in his victory speech, where he was humble about using the gifts that God gave him etc. and respected Randy, all amidst boos from a crowd that hated his existence. Really, he's not a terrible guy, just needs some growing up. And being the HW champ is a huge opportunity that can help him grow, one can see him maturing leaps and bounds just as the interviews progressed and he got closer to the fight, especially after.


----------



## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

Kin said:


> It's stupid to say that Brock won due to size advantage? Hah! It's flat out retarded to say that he won because of anything else. *And to say that he won because he is bigger isn't to discredit the win*. Unless he cheated, there's no way to discredit the win. But that's not the point behind people saying that.
> 
> And if people were saying that Randy had won because he is small, that truly is stupid. Small is not an advantage. Experience is, but that is to be expected. In this sport, skill is a very valued trait, so for it to bring victory is celebrated. Brute force and massive size advantage, at least among students of the game, probably isn't so valued. As such, people will probably feel inclined to make note of the fact that *Randy was not out skilled so much as out weighed and out muscled.*


May I ask then, what is the purpose of posters to continually bring up the size difference between Lesnar and Couture (besides discrediting Lesnar's win)?

Unless Lesnar took some magical pill to instantly gain that kind of physique, is that not the same as honing one's skill in MMA?

P.S. I don't think Lesnar's chin has been tested until he fights against a really good striker with KO power.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> No one is saying that size is not an advantage.. but those complaining about it need to move to a smaller division. Fedor fights 300+ lbs monsters all the time and anhillates them in seconds. He armbarred a 7'2'' 330 lb monster (Choi) in 2 mins, beat the crap out of a 400 lb accomplished kickboxer (Zuluzinho) in 26 secs, demolished the 270 lb ex UFC HW champ (Sylvia) in 36 secs, destroyed two more 300+ top kickboxers (Hunt and Schlit) easily. And he weighs in at a very pudgy 235 lbs. And IMHO he would tool Lesnar as well. If fighting and beating that guy is your aim, you need to step up to his level, not baby around in a 220-235 lbs division.
> 
> Babying fighters with more chunked divisions is not the answer, that's what boxing did, all it does is leave a single division for every good fighter to be a champ in, and leave nothing but cans to contend with because all the good guys are champs in their own microdivision. HW is the one division where you prove your mettle and fight with a slightly larger strength differential.. if you think you have what it takes, step up, otherwise LHW is for you. Where's the confusion? No one complained when Couture came in and took the belt from a huge Tim Sylvia and fought that gorilla Gonzaga, but now everyone has a problem. And how is it any more dangerous? Yeah they can get knocked out worse, but the HW division is statistically the div with the least serious long term injuries from being in the cage. Even the couple of deaths in mma have both been in lighter weights. If anything, the easier KOs mean that they get hit less frequently and there's less chance of long term damage.
> 
> To argue that you hate Brock because he wouldn't perform as good with 25 lbs off is to say that I hate Anderson because he would get his ass kicked if he lost his Muay Thai and BJJ. Yeah, take away those knees and kicks, then we'll see who's so tough! Brock's strength and size is a legit advantage and he uses it well, with excellent wrestling, TDD and, devastating striking. No one complains about other fighters using their strengths, people need to stop hating on his just because they don't like him for his "bully"/WWE personality. Which he's growing out of anyway.. he almost made an apology for it in his victory speech, where he was humble about using the gifts that God gave him etc. and respected Randy, all amidst boos from a crowd that hated his existence. Really, he's not a terrible guy, just needs some growing up. And being the HW champ is a huge opportunity that can help him grow, one can see him maturing leaps and bounds just as the interviews progressed and he got closer to the fight, especially after.


amen

people seem to think that brock didn't work to have that size and strength


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## Kin (May 22, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> That's where you're wrong, small can be an advantage too. People with the "big is unfair" mindset always assume that sizw is a one-directional attribute, and he's so unskilled otherwise blah blah blah.


Uhhh... Size advantage DOES only go one way. There are things that a smaller person can do it compensate, but it's still easier for the bigger guy -- in the grappling OR striking department.

I'm going to assume that I don't have to explain why size is helpful in grappling, so I'll just address the striking part. First off, more weight = more (potential) power. There's more mass for you to put behind your blows. With reach, its easier to land blows and it will give you the edge in most exchanges. And finally, the size of Brock's fist makes it more difficult to dodge -- as Randy mentioned in an interview. 

In the striking dept, what can a little guy do to overcome these advantages? Stick and move? Easier said than done when the other guy has such a reach advantage on you. Stay on the inside? Since this is MMA and not boxing, that will just lead to the clinch. What else can a small guy do?

And I'm not speculating here. I'm an MMA practitioner and I put time into all of its facets, such as boxing, kickboxing, sub-grappling, and wrestling. In all of these, my size (5'5, 150) has been a detriment and never an advantage. I don't use my small stature as a crutch, and I have ways of working around it, but it never ceases to be a detriment. 



Rated said:


> May I ask then, what is the purpose of posters to continually bring up the size difference between Lesnar and Couture (besides discrediting Lesnar's win)?
> 
> Unless Lesnar took some magical pill to instantly gain that kind of physique, is that not the same as honing one's skill in MMA?


I'm not going to presume to speak for everybody, but the size-factor is my arguement against the Lesnar nuthugger's claims of his technical ability. I'm not saying that he didn't win; I am saying, though, that he's not incredibly skilled. 

As for how Lesnar got that physique, it's probably due to his genetics... or did roids. I'm certainly hoping, and believing until I have a reason not to, that it is the former. Is it the same as honing his skill? No, but you could easily make the arguement that it's VERY similar to honing one's conditioning...


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Kin said:


> Uhhh... Size advantage DOES only go one way. There are things that a smaller person can do it compensate, but it's still easier for the bigger guy -- in the grappling OR striking department.
> 
> I'm going to assume that I don't have to explain why size is helpful in grappling, so I'll just address the striking part. First off, more weight = more (potential) power. There's more mass for you to put behind your blows. With reach, its easier to land blows and it will give you the edge in most exchanges. And finally, the size of Brock's fist makes it more difficult to dodge -- as Randy mentioned in an interview.
> 
> ...


Ok captain obvious, thanks for stating how size is an advantage. Really, I didn't understand the physics of it, I was hoping for a Torres Vs Bob Sapp fight at UFC 100. Did you read my post after the one you replied to? 

The whole point is that while strength is an advantage, it is a legitimate one that you have to work just as hard to get as technical skill, and there's nothing unfair about using it. Brock's technical ability must be viewed in totality with his strength and size, not in exclusion of it. To say that he's not as technically skilled as Anderson Silva is just as obvious as saying Anderson Silva is not as strong as Lesnar. How does that take away from his accomplishment? Do you really expect a guy with that much bulk to be throwing flying head kick combinations? You have to see that FOR being as large as he is, the man is amazingly technical and fast, especially his wrestling. That takedown of Mir was blazing, as was his knockdown of Herring. No other man his size moves like that. And if you can't contend with that strength with your skills or technique, you have no business being in the HW division. Couture was able to contend with those size factors against opponents that didn't have the wrestling and TDD ability that Lesnar showed.. he took down and mauled Sylvia and Gonzaga at will. Lesnar used his gifts and hard work, accomplished what a majority doubted he could (yes, Couture was no underdog in this fight, everyone was rooting for him, probably why he lost ) and earned that belt. Although he may not have earned the shot itself. End of discussion.


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## Kin (May 22, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> Ok captain obvious, thanks for stating how strength is an advantage.


No problem, sidekick oblivious! 

Please note that I never bothered to state that strength is an advantage. That doesn't need to be said. I was takling about size, which doesn't = strength. 



Liddellianenko said:


> The whole point is that while strength is an advantage, it is a legitimate one that you have to work just as hard to get as technical skill, and there's nothing unfair about using it. Brock's technical ability must be viewed in totality with his strength and size, not in exclusion of it. To say that he's not as technically skilled as Anderson Silva is just as obvious as saying Anderson Silva is not as strong as Lesnar. How does that take away from his accomplishment? Do you really expect a guy with that much bulk to be throwing flying head kick combinations? You have to see that FOR being as large as he is, the man is amazingly technical and fast, especially his wrestling. That takedown of Mir was blazing, as was his knockdown of Herring. No other man his size moves like that. And if you can't contend with that strength with your skills or technique, you have no business being in the HW division. Couture was able to contend with those size factors against opponents that didn't have the wrestling and TDD ability that Lesnar showed.. he took down and mauled Sylvia and Gonzaga at will. Lesnar used his gifts and hard work, accomplished what a majority doubted he could (yes, Couture was no underdog in this fight, everyone was rooting for him, probably why he lost ) and earned that belt. End of discussion.


For being as large as he is, Lesnar is amazingly fast. Fast =/= technical. He's more technical than HWs that throw nothing but looping haymakers, but that doesn't merit the use of the word 'amazing.' And no, I don't expect him to be using flying headkicks. Technical also doesn't equate to flashy. 

I would have liked to have seen him employ more leverage and positioning to accomplish what he did, in terms of takedowns. But, eh, that's not him.

As for how all of this detracts from his win, it makes it less impressive. I repeat, less impressive -- not less valid.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Okay, I just want to say I'm not hating on lesnar. I'm still sore that he's teh champ and I dont think he deserves it perse, but he did beat couture and I'm taking him much more seriously. 

What I want to point out is that Randy WHALLOPED Brock in the face at one point, I believe it was mid first round after a clinch and Brock did look wobbled IMO. Randy wasn't "throwing the heat" in that fight because it would've exposed him too much and he wouldve gotten KTFO'd. So lesnars Striking has been tested imo because Randy WAS throwing quick strikes. Lesnar didn't manage to slip very man or dodge a bunch but he blocked a bit of them. I say Lesnars striking is improved since his fight with Herring, but definately still subpar IMO. I think if he does go against someone with real KO power (again randy isnt known for that) he might get TKO'd because it did look like Randy rocked him at one point. The last thing is Lesnar gassed BAD! Way faster thanI thought he would. I pointed out before that Herring didnt put up much of a fight so thats a good reason for him looking fresh that whole fight. Randy damaged him and moved a lot and had that fight went one more round, it was Randy's fight IMO. Not trying to take anythign away from Brock though, great fight a good job.



Just my opinion and like I said I'm not hating. I think hes improved but he still hasnt prooven much to me, and he has a lonnnng way to go.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

I'd like to see Arlovski come back too, because I think he'd handle Lesnar


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> Okay, I just want to say I'm not hating on lesnar. I'm still sore that he's teh champ and I dont think he deserves it perse, but he did beat couture and I'm taking him much more seriously.
> 
> What I want to point out is that Randy WHALLOPED Brock in the face at one point, I believe it was mid first round after a clinch and Brock did look wobbled IMO. Randy wasn't "throwing the heat" in that fight because it would've exposed him too much and he wouldve gotten KTFO'd. So lesnars Striking has been tested imo because Randy WAS throwing quick strikes. Lesnar didn't manage to slip very man or dodge a bunch but he blocked a bit of them. I say Lesnars striking is improved since his fight with Herring, but definately still subpar IMO. I think if he does go against someone with real KO power (again randy isnt known for that) he might get TKO'd because it did look like Randy rocked him at one point. The last thing is Lesnar gassed BAD! Way faster thanI thought he would. I pointed out before that Herring didnt put up much of a fight so thats a good reason for him looking fresh that whole fight. Randy damaged him and moved a lot and had that fight went one more round, it was Randy's fight IMO. Not trying to take anythign away from Brock though, great fight a good job.
> 
> ...


i've rewatched the fight many times, and brock didn't wobble at anything randy threw at him....randy landed a hard right hand smack dab on the temple after brock threw a knee and brock didn't even react to it


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## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

sicc said:


> I agree. If they both came into the fight at 220, Randy would have embarrassed Lesnar. It's that god damn size that wins fights, nothing more really. I mean he's a good fighter but without that size he definitely wouldn't be who he is.


What's next ? "If Tim Sylvia was 6'2 he wouldn't have ever won a title".


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

Hellboy said:


> What's next ? "If Tim Sylvia was 6'2 he wouldn't have ever won a title".


Pretty much. People seem to enjoy discrediting Lesnar even though he beat the champ. He didn't lay N Pray for a decision over Couture. he went out there, threw some nice strikes(Knees, elbows, punches), enacted some great wrestling, and beat the champ. 

I'm done with these arguments about why Brock sucks. If you don't like him, or if you are still dangling from Randy's nuts so hard you can't see what's in front of your face, then just accept it and get over it. 

I'm a huge fan of Randy. He's my favorite fighter alongside Cro Cop. Yet I can still see that Brock did a great job.


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## Dempsey Roll (Jun 20, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> Ok captain obvious, thanks for stating how size is an advantage. Really, I didn't understand the physics of it, I was hoping for a Torres Vs Bob Sapp fight at UFC 100. Did you read my post after the one you replied to?
> 
> The whole point is that while strength is an advantage, it is a legitimate one that you have to work just as hard to get as technical skill, and there's nothing unfair about using it. Brock's technical ability must be viewed in totality with his strength and size, not in exclusion of it. To say that he's not as technically skilled as Anderson Silva is just as obvious as saying Anderson Silva is not as strong as Lesnar. How does that take away from his accomplishment? Do you really expect a guy with that much bulk to be throwing flying head kick combinations? You have to see that FOR being as large as he is, the man is amazingly technical and fast, especially his wrestling. That takedown of Mir was blazing, as was his knockdown of Herring. No other man his size moves like that. And if you can't contend with that strength with your skills or technique, you have no business being in the HW division. Couture was able to contend with those size factors against opponents that didn't have the wrestling and TDD ability that Lesnar showed.. he took down and mauled Sylvia and Gonzaga at will. Lesnar used his gifts and hard work, accomplished what a majority doubted he could (yes, Couture was no underdog in this fight, everyone was rooting for him, probably why he lost ) and earned that belt. Although he may not have earned the shot itself. End of discussion.


This is one of the first points that you've made that wasn't mind-numbingly stupid.

I see where you're coming from when you say that advantages in size/strength/speed are, to a degree, acquired traits and should therefore be given the same level of respect as would technical advantages. But the fact of the matter still stands that while they may make him a better fighter, they still don't make him a more skilled fighter. And until such time as he starts showing some real skill I refuse to acknowledge him as being legitimate. Arlovski was also a tremendous athlete in the HW division, coming in at a lean 240. And while his athleticism certainly contributed to his success, he was also a skilled grappler and a very skilled striker. Lesnar's a good fighter and he won the fight fair and square, but to say that he deserves to be viewed in the same light as would a real, skilled, fighter in a promotion in which skill is meant to be the primary determining factor in a fight is just silly nuthuggery.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Dempsey Roll said:


> This is one of the first points that you've made that wasn't mind-numbingly stupid.
> 
> I see where you're coming from when you say that advantages in size/strength/speed are, to a degree, acquired traits and should therefore be given the same level of respect as would technical advantages. But the fact of the matter still stands that while they may make him a better fighter, they still don't make him a more skilled fighter. And until such time as he starts showing some real skill I refuse to acknowledge him as being legitimate. Arlovski was also a tremendous athlete in the HW division, coming in at a lean 240. And while his athleticism certainly contributed to his success, he was also a skilled grappler and a very skilled striker. Lesnar's a good fighter and he won the fight fair and square, but to say that he deserves to be viewed in the same light as would a real, skilled, fighter in a promotion in which skill is meant to be the primary determining factor in a fight is just silly nuthuggery.


As much as I enjoy watching a technically skilled fighter, where exactly does it say in the UFC charter that skill is supposed to be the primary determining factor? You pulled that right out of your ass and are outraged at someone not agreeing with figments of your own imagination. 

It's supposed to be a combination of whatever factors you can legally employ. Skill, strnegth, speed, agility, natural gifts, intelligence, reflex, strategy/gameplanning, all are factors and all are equally valid. This is a sport. Winning is the primary determining factor. Period. As long as you play by the rules, the objective is to win. I'm sorry, you must be confusing it with you other love, ballet. MMA is not supposed to be an art, although it can be seen that way to some extent, it is primarily a sport. You can't say USC shouldn't be a top win college football games because they got a defensive strategy.. scoring touchdowns being a primary determining factor. Using your strengths to win is the basic premise of any sport. The only other argument to be made is maybe since this is an entertainment sport, then entertainment can be rated as a factor which is weighted higher than other sports. Which is why guys like Machida get slack for winning by being very defensive. But against Brock, even that argument is invalid, the guy sold the max PPVs in UFC history and put on entertaining fights. You are the one that sounds like the crazy nuthugger to me.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Liddellianenko said:


> As much as I enjoy watching a technically skilled fighter, where exactly does it say in the UFC charter that skill is supposed to be the primary determining factor? You pulled that right out of your ass and are outraged at someone not agreeing with figments of your own imagination.
> It's supposed to be a combination of whatever factors you can legally employ. Skill, strnegth, speed, agility, natural gifts, intelligence, reflex, strategy/gameplanning, all are factors and all are equally valid. This is a sport. Winning is the primary determining factor. Period. As long as you play by the rules, the objective is to win. I'm sorry, you must be confusing it with you other love, ballet. MMA is not supposed to be an art, although it can be seen that way to some extent, it is primarily a sport. You can't say USC shouldn't be a top win college football games because they got a defensive strategy.. scoring touchdowns being a primary determining factor. Using your strengths to win is the basic premise of any sport. The only other argument to be made is maybe since this is an entertainment sport, then entertainment can be rated as a factor which is weighted higher than other sports. Which is why guys like Machida get slack for winning by being very defensive. But against Brock, even that argument is invalid, the guy sold the max PPVs in UFC history and put on entertaining fights. You are the one that sounds like the crazy nuthugger to me.


Repped.


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## Dempsey Roll (Jun 20, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> As much as I enjoy watching a technically skilled fighter, where exactly does it say in the UFC charter that skill is supposed to be the primary determining factor? You pulled that right out of your ass and are outraged at someone not agreeing with figments of your own imagination.


The entire premise behind the creation of the UFC was that they would bring together skilled martial artists from all different backrounds and find the best one. Because the advantages that larger fighters enjoyed quickly became evident as fighters started becoming more well rounded, the UFC implemented weight classes. Now why would they do that? Could it possibly be that it was because they wanted to make the UFC as fair a venue as possible, matching fighters based on weight so that the more skilled fighter would, more often than not, be the winner? Sure, they could also have matchups based on height and reach and muscle mass and all sorts of other things, and that would show my point even more clearly, but to be honest anything much more complicated that weight classes would be ridiculously impractical. I'm not going to dig through 91 UFCs worth of interviews and press conferences to see if they ever mentioned it specifically, but I think that their actions alone support my point pretty well.

... and just who was I crazily nuthugging?


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Dempsey Roll said:


> The entire premise behind the creation of the UFC was that they would bring together skilled martial artists from all different backrounds and find the best one. Because the advantages that larger fighters enjoyed quickly became evident as fighters started becoming more well rounded, the UFC implemented weight classes. Now why would they do that? Could it possibly be that it was because they wanted to make the UFC as fair a venue as possible, matching fighters based on weight so that the more skilled fighter would, more often than not, be the winner? Sure, they could also have matchups based on height and reach and muscle mass and all sorts of other things, and that would show my point even more clearly, but to be honest anything much more complicated that weight classes would be ridiculously impractical. I'm not going to dig through 91 UFCs worth of interviews and press conferences to see if they ever mentioned it specifically, but I think that their actions alone support my point pretty well.
> 
> ... and just who was I crazily nuthugging?


It may have started with only skilled martial artists, but it quickly expanded within a couple of tournaments to include all good fighters. For every Royce and Ken shamrock, there was a Tank Abbott and Scott Ferrozo. The premise of the UFC evolved to find the best fighter, no martial arts are required to enter, although it would be pretty suicidal nowadays not to have any. Besides, Lesnar is not a big unskilled lug, he's a seasoned and highly decorated wrestler (and I don't mean WWE) and legitimate martial artist. 

Weight classes and other rules were implemented primarily for the safety of the competitors, in addition to giving a fair playing ground. But the current HW limits have shown to be plenty safe despite the gap. I'm not saying there shouldn't be weight classes, obviously then what we'd realistically have is only is a HW weight class. But at some point, you have to open-end the classes or have a wide one. That one has always been the Heavyweight class .. the balls to the wall class, if you will, where a wider differential of size-speed creates the ultimate matchups while still within the bounds of safety and fairness. It has been the same with Boxing, for decades, under rules set by the athletic commission. And the most successful HW boxers/fighters of their time have usually not been the biggest.. whether it's Max Baer dismantling the behemoth Primo Carnera back in the day, or Fedor today. People who compete in it know this, and that is one of the main reasons they _want_ to compete in it, it is the ultimate proving ground. Many guys like Vera and Evans were very successful in it until they realized the weight differential was too big for them and moved to LHW, and no one respects them less for it.. they were natural LHWs and that's the div for them. Guys like Fedor and CroCop (of old) dominated in the (uncapped in Japan) division of giants in spite of their size. So did Couture, until last night. Really, the only reason so many people suddenly have a problem with the HW division is that Couture is so likeable and Lesnar is so unlikeable, and Lesnar beat Couture, which he wasn't supposed to. No one so much as squeaked when Randy came out of retirement straight from the LHW div to challenge the 265 lb HW champ. 

And I was obviously implying that you were nuthugging Couture, since a lot of the "Lesnar sucks" hate is really coming from sour grapes Randy fans. I love Randy and respect the hell outta him, but you guys gotta be rational and fair here.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

http://www.mmatko.com/randy-couture-vs-brock-lesnar-fight-video-ufc-91/

about 1:30 into that video (righ after cage clinch) is what I was talking about. I might have seen it differently when I was watching it on PPV but the way he backed off made me think he was hurt a little. IDK my mistake I guess


EDIT: apparently Attention saw it to so maybe im not just trippin?


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

okay i see what punch you are referring to, but brock was trying to separate from the clinch, that's why he was backing off...didn't look like it hurt him at all


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

No, it did not look like he was hurt whatsoever.


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## r00kie (Jul 8, 2008)

I would not say it proved anything about Brock chin. He seems to have a decent chin, but again, Randy at 220 did not pack that much power in his punches against Lesnar. Unfortunately Brock is in another league size wise, and this will be his main key to victory in every of his fight. Given equal size Brock is not even half of what he his now.


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## UseOf_A_Weapon (Aug 6, 2007)

I think we are all going to have to take a breath here and just wait and watch lesnar some more. He hasn't had enough fights for anyone here to make any really substantive claims. I say we sit back and see how his next few fights go, who he fights and how much he improves. I'll come out and say it... I will NEVER talk shit on Brock if he manages to SUBMIT a top 15 HW. That will be the end of it for me. I'll also consider a solid standup exhange from him as proof of his growth. HELL, if he even uses something other than his wrestling ability and hammerfists to win a fight then I will be adequately appeased with his progress as a fighter. But currently I see him repeatedly going for TDs only to DK smash his opponent with his hamfists. If he got the TD and then placed thoughtful, accurate blows to strategic parts of the body (knee to ribs, punch to kidney, punch to face, etc.) then I would agree that he is growing as a fighter. Until then, he is still an amateur regardless of whom he beats.


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## out 4 the count (Oct 13, 2008)

attention said:


> Yeah, its not as if the UFC marketing hype *ever* mentioned the fact that he was part of the WWE... its not like he has a huge base of WWE fans... its not like he hasnt been in the mma game a long time... so sad that people cant over look these things


That's neither here nor there though my friend. True MMA fans, which I would hope everybody on this forum is, should see through it and take Lesnar for what he is. 

Did you see the interview with him when he talked about signing for the WWE? He basically says, I was young, somebody offered me a 250k dollar contract, what would you do?


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## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

out 4 the count said:


> That's neither here nor there though my friend. True MMA fans, which I would hope everybody on this forum is, should see through it and take Lesnar for what he is.
> 
> Did you see the interview with him when he talked about signing for the WWE? He basically says, I was young, somebody offered me a 250k dollar contract, what would you do?


Thats pretty nicely summed up. I sure wouldn't mind doing some WWE fights for the money Brock was getting for it. Hell people are doing much suckier work and getting paid alot less, its not like he actually took the scripted fights for real and started causing some sh't at bars yelling "I JUST BEAT THE ROCK, IM THE WWE CHAMP ****ERS!"


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

out 4 the count said:


> That's neither here nor there though my friend. True MMA fans, which I would hope everybody on this forum is, should see through it and take Lesnar for what he is.
> 
> Did you see the interview with him when he talked about signing for the WWE? He basically says, I was young, somebody offered me a 250k dollar contract, what would you do?





Diokhan said:


> Thats pretty nicely summed up. I sure wouldn't mind doing some WWE fights for the money Brock was getting for it. Hell people are doing much suckier work and getting paid alot less, its not like he actually took the scripted fights for real and started causing some sh't at bars yelling "I JUST BEAT THE ROCK, IM THE WWE CHAMP ****ERS!"


Oh,I thought that interview was definitely informative.
And yes, it totally made common sense 
And yes, if I was him... I would have done the exact same thing.

That interview explained alot and I respect him more after listening to him.

The fact that he is a true athelete... the fact that he found the WWE becoming 'stale'... that he needed to go back to his true athletic calling and become a 'real' athelete...
total respect for that.

I can look past his WWE past, so long as he doesnt bring in into the cage.
So yeah, the UFC marketing engine can bring it up... i could care less... and its not his fault they are portraying him that way.

BUT when he behaves like a WWE performer 'by his own accord' after a fight... thats ALL on him.

I can look past his WWE history... but its hard when HE brings it center stage.

Maybe its just bad habits he picked up... but its hard to look past it when he keeps reminding us.


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