# Which Middleweights Can Drop to WW and Challenge GSP?



## Glothin (Jun 8, 2010)

Since Silva will not drop and GSP will not move up, which middleweights can drop to welterweight and really challenge GSP?

I actually think Bisping could do this. Demian Maia or Chris Leben might as well. 

Nate the Great fights for Jackson, so he's out. I do not see Sonnen or the other challengers cutting to 170.

Anybody?


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## Relavate (Dec 21, 2010)

Bisping wouldnt stand a chance. Maia i think would do ok but you just saw what gsp does to great bjj guys. Gsp would also tool leben.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Relavate said:


> Bisping wouldnt stand a chance. Maia i think would do ok but you just saw what gsp does to great bjj guys. Gsp would also tool leben.


Bisping is better at striking than GSP and is naturally bigger , he obviously isnt the favourite but he has chance. :confused03: plus Evans didnt have it all his own way trying to get Bisping to the mat.


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## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

Akiyama might be able to cut down to WW really well, The Sex is going turn GSP into a FOTN winner again..... in a losing effort.

PS. After the fight with Shields, I have now become a fan of Jake Shields. Is that wrong?


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## trimco (Feb 4, 2011)

Buakaw_GSP said:


> Akiyama might be able to cut down to WW really well, The Sex is going turn GSP into a FOTN winner again..... in a losing effort.
> 
> PS. After the fight with Shields, I have now become a fan of Jake Shields. Is that wrong?



What did Shields do that impressed you in the least?

It was an embarrassing performance.


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

Palhares? Decent stand-up, enough to survive on the feet with GSP. He has explosive takedowns and is very strong. He might stand a chance of getting GSP down and submitting him. Chances are slim, but it is still possible.


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## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

I don't think Maia nor Leben would stand much chance against GSP. Maia just couldn't get him down and Leben is just junk compared to GSP in every aspect. 

Of the names you have mentioend, Bisping definately has the best chance, but he cut from LHW to MW and I don't think he could lose another 15lbs.

What if Johnson beats Marquadt though? He would then have some good wins to be in line for the title and surely has the tools to give GSP a very good challenge.....

Diaz and Condit are the only other challenges I see for GSP at this point at Welter. But that is 3 potentials right there, enough to keep him busy while some of the younger guys develop.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Any fighter with decent striking that gsp cannot take down will beat him.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

***** de Amigo said:


> Bisping is better at striking than GSP and is naturally bigger , he obviously isnt the favourite but he has chance. :confused03: plus Evans didnt have it all his own way trying to get Bisping to the mat.


 GSP is light years ahead of Bisping in every departement including Striking. My god are you joking?
Statistically GSP lands 14% more strikes, has a lower % landed on him and has faced far better competition without the likes of Chris Leben padding his numbers. Bisping is a decent striker but to say he is better than GSP is absurd and completely baseless.


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

xeberus said:


> Any fighter with decent striking *that gsp cannot take down* will beat him.


Well....that pretty much eliminates 98% of fighters, lol.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

xeberus said:


> Any fighter with decent striking that gsp cannot take down will beat him.


Good luck finding that guy...LOL


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Palhares, i believe he is over built at MW anyway, serious just look at his back, does he really need that much muscle?

to put this into perspective

Palhares = 5 foot 8 ins
GSP = 5 foot 10 ins
Kos = 5 foot 10 ins
Fitch = 6 foot 1 ins
Penn = 5 foot 9 ins

Seriously most guys his size would be at LW, Dam Palhares is just a ape fighting well over the normality limits for a guy his size, everyone he has ever faced in the UFC has been over 6 foot, Nate been his smallest opponent who is exactly 6 foot.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Toxic said:


> GSP is light years ahead of Bisping in every departement including Striking. My god are you joking?
> Statistically GSP lands 14% more strikes, has a lower % landed on him and has faced far better competition without the likes of Chris Leben padding his numbers. Bisping is a decent striker but to say he is better than GSP is absurd and completely baseless.


GSPs striking is much more effective then most because of his wrestling. i'm not saying bisping is better then him but GSP has an advantage over most because of it.


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## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

I don't think there are too many candidates. Sonnen and Bisping are too big to drop down. Okami doesn't have the skill set of GSP. Maybe Maia could submit him? I'm sure GSP would chose where the fight is fought though.


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

Bisping could never make 170 imo, he looks like a skinned rabbit when he makes 185. Paul Harris could make 170 easily and id still think he would be a powerhouse, He would certainly have the big risk factor for GSP with his explosive grappling but i think GSP would jab his way to UD as always.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

DJ Syko said:


> Bisping could never make 170 imo, he looks like a skinned rabbit when he makes 185. Paul Harris could make 170 easily and id still think he would be a powerhouse, He would certainly have the big risk factor for GSP with his explosive grappling but i think GSP would jab his way to UD as always.


Bisping is 6ft 2ins, same as Silva.

The Smaller MW's tend to be around 5ft 11 - 6ft 0, 6ft 2 is the high end of the scale, bare in mind Bisping was once a LHW, no chance does he make a healthy 170lb.

There is a very good chance Palhares could be the smallest MW fighting in the UFC division, just quickly looking and 5ft 8ins at MW is going to take some beating there are a few 5ft 11 in there and thats the next closest I have been able to quickly find.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

None of them stand a chance. Palhares has decent take downs, but let's not over exaggerate them. His take downs are not remotely good enough to take GSP down.

GSP has proved time and time again that he has the best MMA wrestling in the game. Palhares wouldn't be able to take him down and would get picked apart on the feet.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> None of them stand a chance. Palhares has decent take downs, but let's not over exaggerate them. His take downs are not remotely good enough to take GSP down.
> 
> GSP has proved time and time again that he has the best MMA wrestling in the game. Palhares wouldn't be able to take him down and would get picked apart on the feet.


See thing about under estimating Palhares is that he is one Crazy fcuker who would be willing to keep move forward and risk taking a hard shot and possibility getting KTFO to at least try for the TD.

See what I thought Shields needed to do in his pathetic attempt, at least come the championship rounds when it was obvious that for as long as it was standing he was just going to get outpointed all night long, was take bigger risks, hence move in and take him down whatever the cost, hence running straight threw that jap and big overhead right and just hoping it misses or does at least not connect right and if it does land hope that your chin can take it and you are still conscious.

That would be my strategy for guys like Palhares/Shields anyway once all else was failing fcuk it, don't back off risk having to take his best shot and just don't stop going forward for the TD till ether you have his legs to work the TD or you are out cold.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Palhares, i believe he is over built at MW anyway, serious just look at his back, does he really need that much muscle?
> 
> to put this into perspective
> 
> ...


Update: Jake Shields happens to be 6ft 0


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## Brydon (Jan 13, 2007)

xeberus said:


> Any fighter with decent striking that gsp cannot take down will beat him.


There is no one who can make WW that can do this at the moment.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

***** de Amigo said:


> Bisping is better at striking than GSP and is naturally bigger , he obviously isnt the favourite but he has chance. :confused03: plus Evans didnt have it all his own way trying to get Bisping to the mat.


Bisping? Mr. Pillowhands who circled right into the h-bomb from Hendo after his corner told him not to do it? GSP would show his standup the respect it deserves and beat him till he looks like Kos or Fitch.

None of the MW I can think of really have a good shot, I'd say Paul Harris and Wandy have the best chance if they can make 170 without killing themselves. Palhares if he can get it to the ground has the hard & brutal submission skills that are needed to slap something on GSP before he can work free. Wandy would have a chance to KO GSP with his berzerker charges if he can keep the fight standing, he'll have a shot at the start of each round to put GSP on his back foot and take him out.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

I've really disappointed at how ignorant the people on MMAF have been about GSP vs. Shields. That was an amazing fight, Shields and GSP both put on amazing performances and I was on the edge of my seat. 



I'd love to see Maia vs. GSP and if Maia came in ruthless and not timid at all I think he could pull guard on GSP, or get sprawled on and do his signature hip-roll to guard.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Only MW that can both make 170 and challenge GSP is Silva.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> I've really disappointed at how ignorant the people on MMAF have been about GSP vs. Shields. That was an amazing fight, Shields and GSP both put on amazing performances and I was on the edge of my seat.


What fight was you watching, what exactly did Shields do to amaze you with his performance aside from poke GSP in the eye.

Now don't get me wrong, I can see why GSP was happy to stand there all night long outpointing Shields as he came in with the same 3 strike combo over and over again, can't quite recall what the exact sequence was think it started with a inside leg kick (not sure on that) but it followed with a jab then round kick to the body.

Best thing about it was GSP had it owned with a counter every time to just keep picking away for his points, yet still he never learned and continued to keep trying his pathetic combo. Only time Jake mixed it up was when he poked GSP in the eye, yea that worked out nice GSP never saw that sh1t coming nor had a plan to counter that, Jake should of come out with more of that, was after all the only thing that worked out for him all night, he should of done more of that and try to blind GSP maybe mix it up with a few kicks to the balls see to see how that worked out, better still do the same again only to the other eye, maybe if he was successful in blinding GSP in both eyes then after his combo might of stared to work.

Am sorry but after the second round it was clear that he needed to make big adjustments to his approach else he was just going to get pointed out to a decision, and what do you know he just carried on with the same approach for 5 fcuking rounds and just as every MMA fan watching the fight knew was going to happen after just the first 2 rounds, GSP continued to remain patient countering Jakes's pathetic little combo approach, which Jake was probably using to try and set up a take down, but it was so far off ever been close to successful you would never of fcuking guessed, so no fault here on the account of GSP for just carrying on to win the decision Jake was giving him on a plate.

I bet GSP was thinking to himself, thank you Jake for been so fcuking predictable, I can do this sh1t all night long if you want, YESS!!! money in the bag for me here we go again 

Seriously that fight lacked any excitement, if was just a predictable run of repetitive events from start to finish, it was just GSP having the answer to a very simple set of problems (or more accurately a SINGLE simple problem) Jake had set out for him, can't really fault GSP for just continuing doing what he was doing, hell if your opponent is going to keep coming for the same approach and you have a counter for it that is steering you right into an easy decision win then why change it, hell it was Shields who was falling more and more behind and needed to come up with something to at least try to change the way the fight was going.

To put it bluntly Shields sucked in that fight, he lacked heart, the will to win, the ability to adapt, his strategy was hopeless and there was no plan B, he laked the will to throw down and give it his all when the chips where down even when his title hopes where drifting further and further away, They should make a new Epic Fail title just for Jake Shields and make him the current raining Epic Fail champion of the UFC based on that performance, he truly does deserve such a symbol of recognition for the work rate and performance he gave that night.

So again seriously what fight was you watching, did I miss out on some amazing edge of your seat battle between two other guys coincidently named GSP and Jake Shields which you enjoyed so much, while I was to busy roped into watch the pile of sh1t that was been ditched out on the UFC 129 card.

Jake if you happen by any chance to read this, Go back to SF and get your ass subbed by Jacare you fcuking looser.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> What fight was you watching, what exactly did Shields do to amaze you with his performance aside from poke GSP in the eye.
> 
> Now don't get me wrong, I can see why GSP was happy to stand there all night long outpointing Shields as he came in with the same 3 strike combo over and over again, can't quite recall what the exact sequence was think it started with a inside leg kick (not sure on that) but it followed with a jab then round kick to the body.
> 
> ...




sigh.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Toxic said:


> GSP is light years ahead of Bisping in every departement including Striking. My god are you joking?
> Statistically GSP lands 14% more strikes, has a lower % landed on him and has faced far better competition without the likes of Chris Leben padding his numbers. Bisping is a decent striker but to say he is better than GSP is absurd and completely baseless.


Im sorry what ? AM I JOKING " GSP IS LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF BISPING in every department INCLUDING STRIKING ".

Take the hater glasses off and actually be sensible. 

First of all look at who GSP is essentially beating with strikes , Wrestlers now Bisping opponents are exactly amazing they are and have been better strikers than his previous few , his combinations are better he has better technique at punching i mean did you see GSP baseball throw over hand right i saw Liddell face palming. :confused05:


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

***** de Amigo said:


> Im sorry what ? AM I JOKING " GSP IS LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF BISPING in every department INCLUDING STRIKING ".
> 
> Take the hater glasses off and actually be sensible.
> 
> First of all look at who GSP is essentially beating with strikes , Wrestlers now Bisping opponents are exactly amazing they are and have been better strikers than his previous few , his combinations are better he has better technique at punching i mean did you see GSP baseball throw over hand right i saw Liddell face palming. :confused05:


Yeah, one bad punch in a single fight in GSP's career and you're writing him off. Bisping's striking is mediocore, he has no power at MW at all and he has no leg kicks, his knees are in slow motion and there's no way he could string together combos like GSP can.



And since you're the resident MMAF Bisping nut-hugger at least stop pretending you're not that much of a fan already. He's obviously your favorite fighter and it's annoying how you pretend you're only defending him because nobody else does.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> I've really disappointed at how ignorant the people on MMAF have been about GSP vs. Shields. That was an amazing fight, Shields and GSP both put on amazing performances and I was on the edge of my seat.


GTFO with that bullshit seriously, that was a poor performance from both guys, it wasn't technical in any aspect. don't mean to sound like a dick(this time) but come on!


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## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

To be fair, Shields vs GSP wasn't the disaster that people make out. There have been lesser championship fights, but I am in no rush to rewatch it either. You've got two P4P fighters out there so sometimes things are gonna be slow and calculated and less risks are going to be taken. 

Can't think of any Middleweights who can drop to WW and be a legit challenge to GSP.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

guy incognito said:


> GTFO with that bullshit seriously, that was a poor performance from both guys, it wasn't technical in any aspect. don't mean to sound like a dick(this time) but come on!



Maybe you guys are just listening to Joe Rogan's commentary too much?


Shields made GSP miss SO many shots, he made Georges scared to throw kicks, he landed hard on him quite a few times and is the only guy since before I graduated high school to steal a round from him. You guys don't understand that a fighter looks best when fighting somebody sub-par. These two nearly canceled each other out in skill, GSP afraid to go to the ground and Shields able to avoid damage on the feet but unable to mount a great offense.

Anytime GSP took Shields down Shields had an arm locked and guard (or butterfly guard) pulled before his back even touched the mat. Even the minute or less of ground action was awesome and we saw just a glimpse of what Shields is going to do to the rest of the WW division on the ground. 

We also saw conclusive proof that GSP has the best takedown defense in the sport, period. The way he got out of Shields' single attempts was incredible. 


But since Shields was so good at avoiding damage standing, GSP was so good at defending the take-down, Shields was so good at scaring GSP away from his take-downs, that we saw a lot of action nullified and anyone not really paying that much attention (or anyone who only saw the fight once, with friends, after drinking) thinks the fight sucked. It didn't help that Aldo vs. Hominick was the fight right before it setting the pace for title matches.


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## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

I think having GSP vs Shields come on after Hominick vs Aldo, which was a 5* fight, might have hurt GSP vs Shields a little bit. The crowd were probably almost exhausted at the excitement of that fight so having GSP vs Shields was always gonna seem more lackluster, I reckon.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> I've really disappointed at how ignorant the people on MMAF have been about GSP vs. Shields. That was an amazing fight, Shields and GSP both put on amazing performances and I was on the edge of my seat.


I must say I also failed to see what you saw...

To me it looked like a lot of hype. GSP was ready for whatever Jake was gonna throw at him, and it ended up being a pathetic dance with super predictible combos and no power behind it...

GSP was more than happy to just have to deal with that all night long...

I was really hoping Jake would go for broke at some point, but it never happened 

I'm wondering why he and Kos completely gave up on trying to get GSP down after only a couple of attemps...

I have to say I was hoping for a competitive fight, but was utterly disappointed in Shields 

I'm still wondering how the hell he took Hendo down and held him down...I guess his back was fucked for real...

And I can't believe I'm gonna agree with KillerShark, but he said it best


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

Paul Harris would have to amputate one of his own arms to make 170... ;p


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> *Shields made GSP miss SO many shots, he made Georges scared to throw kicks, he landed hard on him quite a few times and is the only guy since before I graduated high school to steal a round from him*. You guys don't understand that a fighter looks best when fighting somebody sub-par. These two nearly canceled each other out in skill, GSP afraid to go to the ground and Shields able to avoid damage on the feet but unable to mount a great offense.


Are you kidding, thats statement is laughable, GSP hardly went for any shots except on a couple of occasions right near the end of a few of the closer round, you know just to secure the round right at the end just to make certain it was his round, or at least a little clearer to these moron judges one of which scored the previous fight 50-43 Aldo like what the fcuk did the judge not see the fight, did he fall asleep miss the entire fight then wake up from the bell at the end of the fight then take a look at Hominick's face and think to himself "dam I just missed the fight but I can't let anyone find out so I will have to make up a score, then just saw Hominick's face and thought this must of been 50-43 to Aldo"

Sorry got side tracked, its just that scoring that fight 50-43 Aldo was an epic fail of judging as bad as I have ever seen, I think it must of been by 50/50 chance of pure luck that he got the winner correct.

Anyway as far as the GSP missing his shots theory goes, it was never GSP's intention to let this fight go to the ground, in fact the thing he did best all night was to prevent the fight ever going to the ground, at least for a respectable amount of time and certainly never been on the bottom not ever.

As for the leg kicks and you thinking "GSP was to scared to throw leg kicks", I'm sure fear had zero influence on his game plan decision to avoid using leg kicks, I sure GSP was terrified of fcuk all all night long as he keep a very cool head and continued to follow a very effective game plan which he executed quite superbly to be fair, was a boring plan but he stuck to it like a true pro, certainly never acted like some scared amateur mug unable to think and making rash plays, so why the fcuk would GSP need to go against his plan that was working just fine and start throwing leg kicks that could give Shields a possible opening to get his way and win a TD, tell me why the fcuk would he do that, what would be the sense when what he was doing was working so well, what would be the intensive, what you expect him to do "durr Im GSP, I have a game plan here that is working just fine, why don't I risk fcuking it up and start throwing some leg kicks then maybe Jake will get a chance to take me down"

And the judges, well one judge called it right 50-45 GSP, the other hur well at least the got the winner right, even GSP looked over when he heard those scores and thought what the fcuk.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

By "Miss his shots" I meant his strikes, primarily his jab, spinning back kick, and side kick. I can understand the confusion and I should have worded it better.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

suniis said:


> And I can't believe I'm gonna agree with KillerShark, but he said it best


im always right just takes the rest of the world time to catch up.

In fact I have the answer to bad judging period, me personally no democracy just my personal dictatorship, in the event of any decision they just need to phone me and I will tell them exactly who won the fight


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> I've really disappointed at how ignorant the people on MMAF have been about GSP vs. Shields. That was an amazing fight, Shields and GSP both put on amazing performances and I was on the edge of my seat.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to see Maia vs. GSP and if Maia came in ruthless and not timid at all I think he could pull guard on GSP, or get sprawled on and do his signature hip-roll to guard.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> Yeah, one bad punch in a single fight in GSP's career and you're writing him off.
> 
> And you're like everyone else doing the same ( Henderson fight ) with bisping
> 
> ...


Bisping IS A BETTER STRIKER THAN GSP

put the haterade down and just think , everyone brain process in a thread with Bisping mentioned goes to crap.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

***** de Amigo said:


> Bisping IS A BETTER STRIKER THAN GSP
> 
> put the haterade down and just think , everyone brain process in a thread with Bisping mentioned goes to crap.


I agree with what you wrote in red.
However, I can't agree with you when you're saying Bisping is a better striker than GSP.

I repsect your opinion nontheless, even if I disagree with it


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Mirage445 said:


> Well....that pretty much eliminates 98% of fighters, lol.


This is actually my point.  I was totally serious, but there is no one that fits the criteria. Maybe chael, but as poor a showing as gsp had with his striking, I still gotta say it was probably mostly the eye injury and he's a far better striker than chael.


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## skinnyBIGGS (Jul 2, 2010)

trimco said:


> What did Shields do that impressed you in the least?
> 
> It was an embarrassing performance.


lol atleast it wasnt a lackluster title defence , i thought this was a Championship title fight...lol GSP is done one more loss and he is dismantled he wont fight A silva especially after the Belfort fight...if you been paying attention to the threads it was becoming more of a possibility then BANG A silva amazing out of nowhere flash ko that stirs the MMA world into a FRENZY....GSP is just not worth the money to watch especially in a 5round title bout


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

OHKO said:


> Palhares? Decent stand-up, enough to survive on the feet with GSP. He has explosive takedowns and is very strong. He might stand a chance of getting GSP down and submitting him. Chances are slim, but it is still possible.


I really like how Palhares' name is mentioned, I agree. I'd really like to see that fight - he could make WW as well (the guy is 5'8!!).

Bisping would also fair alright, very fast hands and great standup, with a decent ground game and TDD.

Reckon Sonnen could cut to WW? If he could, problem solved.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

xeberus said:


> Any fighter with decent striking that gsp cannot take down will beat him.


Exactly why i wish JBJ was a MW, im convinced he would make a Mockery of GSP.

As for someone small enough in MW to challenge a big WW in GSP, i don't think there is one...

At least not one that could challenge him with a level of striking or Wrestling he hasn't faced yet other then Anderson.

I would like to see Chael fight GSP, but other than him i dont have faith with any of the other MW's against someone like GSP


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## Steroid Steve (Oct 1, 2010)

I think Chael could take GSP if he could get down to 170. Most of the MW are 200lbers, so I doubt most of them could cut down to 170.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

***** de Amigo said:


> Bisping IS A BETTER STRIKER THAN GSP
> 
> put the haterade down and just think , everyone brain process in a thread with Bisping mentioned goes to crap.


Okay, bisping might be a better striker than gsp. That does not mean he is not having various love affairs with men and cheating on his wife. 































I can't see what he's looking at, but I can tell he likes it.. a lot..


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

xeberus said:


> Okay, bisping might be a better striker than gsp. That does not mean he is not having various love affairs with men and cheating on his wife.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



JUST WOW HAHAHAH


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> I'd love to see Maia vs. GSP and if Maia came in ruthless and not timid at all I think he could pull guard on GSP, or get sprawled on and do his signature hip-roll to guard.


 Really? Maia couldn't even get Anderson Silva down and Silva does not possess half the TD defense GSP does.



***** de Amigo said:


> Im sorry what ? AM I JOKING " GSP IS LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF BISPING in every department INCLUDING STRIKING ".
> 
> Take the hater glasses off and actually be sensible.
> 
> First of all look at who GSP is essentially beating with strikes , Wrestlers now Bisping opponents are exactly amazing they are and have been better strikers than his previous few , his combinations are better he has better technique at punching i mean did you see GSP baseball throw over hand right i saw Liddell face palming. :confused05:


 GSP is beating wrestlers? GSP is beating complete fighters. Josh Koschek one of those "wrestlers?" Kos has better striking than anybody Bisping has ever beaten as does Alves and Hardy. Please tell me what great strikers Bisping has beaten? Akiyama? Leben? You know what the list of guys Bisping has in common most of them are sloppy brawlers who block punches with there face so they make Bispings stick and move style an above average ability to avoid damage look better than he really is. Bisping has slightly better than average striking but he rarely commits which is why he rarely looks for the knock out and also why he does a relatively good job avoiding damage. He is by no means horrible but to even compare his striking to an elite fighter like GSP never mind try to give him the edge is absurd. It would be like saying Dan Miller is gonna submit Demian Maia. 



***** de Amigo said:


> Bisping IS A BETTER STRIKER THAN GSP
> 
> put the haterade down and just think , everyone brain process in a thread with Bisping mentioned goes to crap.


See thats the diffrence, I don't have to put down the haterade (I hate Bisping) or play with the fan boy glasses to look at it objectively. Bisping couldn't hold GSP's jock in a striking match.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Toxic said:


> GSP is beating wrestlers? GSP is beating complete fighters. Josh Koschek one of those "wrestlers?" Kos has better striking than anybody Bisping has ever beaten as does Alves and Hardy. Please tell me what great strikers Bisping has beaten? Akiyama? Leben?


Ain't that the truth. The only fighter that GSP's beaten recently who doesn't have better standup than the guys that Bisping has beaten is Matt Hughes. The next worst strikers on that list are Serra and Shields, either one of them are the equals of anyone on Bispings win list. After that you have Koscheck & Hardy in the next tier, then Fitch, BJ, and Alves in the top tier.

Seriously, Bisping is the guy that walked right into Hendo's right hand, then did it again against Kang, then ran scared and got dropped once again by an over the hill Wandy. Yeah, that's some serious high level striking there.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Really? Maia couldn't even get Anderson Silva down and Silva does not possess half the TD defense GSP does.



What about Chael Sonnen? Maia tossed him with ease.


The Silva fight was a bit of an anomaly.


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## TheReturn (Sep 26, 2010)

Glothin said:


> Since Silva will not drop and GSP will not move up, which middleweights can drop to welterweight and really challenge GSP?
> 
> I actually think Bisping could do this. Demian Maia or Chris Leben might as well.
> 
> ...


Ya except Leben isnt really that good so no point


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> What about Chael Sonnen? Maia tossed him with ease.
> 
> 
> The Silva fight was a bit of an anomaly.


I actually think the Sonnen fight was a bit of one to. Maia wasn't really having luck taking Sonnen down and was having difficulty even keeping him in his guard before the exchanged against the age and Maia threw some knees, I think he just caught Sonnen off guard or the stars aligned right. I honestly doubt Maia would have as much success if they had a rematch.


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

Toxic said:


> *I actually think the Sonnen fight was a bit of one to.* Maia wasn't really having luck taking Sonnen down and was having difficulty even keeping him in his guard before the exchanged against the age and Maia threw some knees, I think he just caught Sonnen off guard or the stars aligned right. I honestly doubt Maia would have as much success if they had a rematch.


Agreed. I'm still confused as to how it happened ...


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## chokeuout381 (Oct 11, 2010)

Jacare...maybe cung le if he could defend the takedowns


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Toxic said:


> See thats the diffrence, I don't have to put down the haterade (I hate Bisping) or play with the fan boy glasses to look at it objectively. Bisping couldn't hold GSP's jock in a striking match.


How I long for the day when Bisping takes the glory he rightfully deserves, and I believe that day is near, fcuk GSP vs Bisping, all odds point to the fact GSP and Bisping will probably never face each other, nor does it really matter if they do, its Anderson Silva who should be worried about the hunger of Michael Bisping, Anderson's days are numbered, every run has to end, even the great ones, and I strongly believe that Bisping is the man in prime position in both his current physical form and place within the division to take advantage of that fact, and he has the hunger to make it happen.

Later this year when Bisping takes that Belt from the hands of Anderson Silva himself, I will rename that day Bisping Day, and I can't wait to see what you guys have to say then.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

KillerShark1985 said:


> How I long for the day when Bisping takes the glory he rightfully deserves, and I believe that day is near, fcuk GSP vs Bisping, all odds point to the fact GSP and Bisping will probably never face each other, nor does it really matter if they do, its Anderson Silva who should be worried about the hunger of Michael Bisping, Anderson's days are numbered, every run has to end, even the great ones, and I strongly believe that Bisping is the man in prime position in both his current physical form and place within the division to take advantage of that fact, and he has the hunger to make it happen.
> 
> Later this year when Bisping takes that Belt from the hands of Anderson Silva himself, I will rename that day Bisping Day, and I can't wait to see what you guys have to say then.


Bartender!!, I will have what he ^^^ is having, :thumb02:..

I have been wrong once or twice but I really can't see this being one of those times :dunno:


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Come to think of it, Bisping is actually a very, very good match up to beat GSP. He's a points fighter who uses a long jab and a straight as well as good footwork to out point other fighters. He's also got some stellar takedown defense and once he gets put on his back he's generally very slippery and scrambles very well. His style could very well beat GSP.... that's interesting to say the least IMO. I just don't know if Bisping is good enough to do it.




> I actually think the Sonnen fight was a bit of one to. Maia wasn't really having luck taking Sonnen down and was having difficulty even keeping him in his guard before the exchanged against the age and Maia threw some knees, I think he just caught Sonnen off guard or the stars aligned right. I honestly doubt Maia would have as much success if they had a rematch.


Really? REALLY? C'mon Toxic you can't honestly believe that. Chael's Kryptonite is BJJ. He's been subbed by damn near every top level BJJ player he's ever faced. Maia would do the same thing he did to him last time but even worse in a rematch.


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> Really? REALLY? C'mon Toxic you can't honestly believe that. Chael's Kryptonite is BJJ. He's been subbed by damn near every top level BJJ player he's ever faced. Maia would do the same thing he did to him last time but even worse in a rematch.


It's not the fact that he got subbed, it's that he got taken down by Maia - that's the anomaly.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

I think maia would do it again as well or at least pull guard. Also his boxing had improved by a crazy amount since then. I'm not saying it's great, but c Chael was never anything special standing either so I think it would be competitive striking wise.


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## astrallite (Mar 14, 2010)

xeberus said:


> This is actually my point.  I was totally serious, but there is no one that fits the criteria. Maybe chael, but as poor a showing as gsp had with his striking, I still gotta say it was probably mostly the eye injury and he's a far better striker than chael.


Also while Chael is a great offensive wrestler, his take-down defense % according to UFC.com is only the low 60s. All GSP have to do would need to be proactive and get the first take down.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Toxic said:


> GSP is beating wrestlers? GSP is beating complete fighters. Josh Koschek one of those "wrestlers?" Kos has better striking than anybody Bisping has ever beaten as does Alves and Hardy. Please tell me what great strikers Bisping has beaten? Akiyama? Leben? You know what the list of guys Bisping has in common most of them are sloppy brawlers who block punches with there face so they make Bispings stick and move style an above average ability to avoid damage look better than he really is. Bisping has slightly better than average striking but he rarely commits which is why he rarely looks for the knock out and also why he does a relatively good job avoiding damage. He is by no means horrible but to even compare his striking to an elite fighter like GSP never mind try to give him the edge is absurd. It would be like saying Dan Miller is gonna submit Demian Maia.
> 
> This is good stuff , first of all Koscheck has horrible striking and is not a complete fighter he is generic American wrestler WHO has is slightly better than the average one, He has power in his hands with no technique and good shoot in and some reasonable submissions nothing more , granted he is effective and like Jon Fitch can win fights with these skills. Akiyama , Kang and Leben have better striking easily.
> 
> ...


We may aswell call it a day , because everyone HATES Bisping and its really not a neutral argument.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Who besides Silva has Maia ever had trouble taking down? Maia has the best triangle in the game and he'd beat Chael over and over and over again. And I LOVE Chael.


Honestly if it weren't for the mental aspect of the game I bet the MW belt would be like the LHW belt, it'd go Silva > Maia > Chael > Silva etc etc etc.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> I think maia would do it again as well or at least pull guard. Also his boxing had improved by a crazy amount since then. I'm not saying it's great, but c Chael was never anything special standing either so I think it would be competitive striking wise.


Maia's striking has imo improved drastically and I don't know who wins the kickboxing bout but I was simply saying I would be shocked if Maia could throw Sonnen down like that again.



***** de Amigo said:


> This is good stuff , first of all Koscheck has horrible striking and is not a complete fighter he is generic American wrestler WHO has is slightly better than the average one, He has power in his hands with no technique and good shoot in and some reasonable submissions nothing more , granted he is effective and like Jon Fitch can win fights with these skills. Akiyama , Kang and Leben have better striking easily.


 Don't mistake power for skill. Leben is a horrible striker, technically he sucks. Leben is a fun guy to watch but my god I'm not even sure I can think of 5 fighters in the UFC I would consider worse strikers. Akiyama is also horrible and he just gets worse because he lacks massive power but runs around trying to throw that one big haymaker like he is Shane Carwin or Dan Henderson. Its almost comical to me because frankly Jake Shields is a better striker than Chris Leben. Effective does not equal good. If Leben didn't have such a good chin he would have lost enough fights to get him cut a long time ago.


> Alves and Dan Hardy werent beaten by striking they were beaten by wrestling. They were most likely outstruck the BRIEF time they were standing but they werent exactly beaten with striking.


 Choosing not to strike with strikers doesn't make you less skilled. GSP was out striking them and was the better striker in both fights but it is smarter to attack your opponents weakness than fight to there strength. 


> Your point about GSP being elite is nonsense , just because he is the BEST fighter in the division does not make him better at everything than everyone , His weakest attribute is striking and Bisping is actually very underrated at striking.
> .


 His biggest weakness is his striking? Why has nobody ever been able to expose this glaring weakness? The only thing we have even seen from GSP that you could possibly call a weakness is you could question is his chin but even that was more to do with a perfectly landed shot from somebody who had never shown the ability to throw like that. Please give me a single example of GSP's horrible striking, show me where somebody capitalized or exposed his striking? Please....


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

TraMaI said:


> Come to think of it, Bisping is actually a very, very good match up to beat GSP. He's a points fighter who uses a long jab and a straight as well as good footwork to out point other fighters. He's also got some stellar takedown defense and once he gets put on his back he's generally very slippery and scrambles very well. His style could very well beat GSP.... that's interesting to say the least IMO. I just don't know if Bisping is good enough to do it.


The problem with Bisping is he's predictable and has too many bad habits; you can always count on him to circle right into the power side of his opponent and once he's tagged he usually backs straight off which makes it easy to hit him again & again. Wandy was able to ding him good thanks to that one, and you can bet GSP and his trainers will watch those tapes and figure out exactly how to make Bisping pay for those mistakes. 

It would probably be jab & low kick, pop him with some power jabs or a left hook to rattle him a bit and make him circle to the power side, then slam him with a right straight or overhand right and keep throwing strikes at him till he goes down. They'll also know that Bisping doesn't have KO power so GSP can stay loose with his strikes and hang out in the pocket more than usual. Not much takedown danger either so GSP can use a more striking oriented stance as well for more speed & better angles.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Maia's striking has imo improved drastically and I don't know who wins the kickboxing bout but I was simply saying I would be shocked if Maia could throw Sonnen down like that again.


I don't think he'd necessarily bully him to the floo ror anything like that. I'm not saying he'd be able to take him down at will either. What I was saying is that he'd get it to the ground eventually and once he gets it there it's curtains. Him having improved boxing only makes matters worse for Chael as Chael I believe would have two choices. 1) Box him to a stalemate (I don't see either man knocking the other out at all) and possibly lose a close one/draw or 2) take him down where he's most comfortable and risk getting subbed. The ladder of which I'm 99% certain would happen because most wrestlers (Sonnen included) revert to their natural wrestling instincts when they get punched a few times. Chael has never been heralded as a stellar game planner either.



aerius said:


> The problem with Bisping is he's predictable and has too many bad habits; you can always count on him to circle right into the power side of his opponent and once he's tagged he usually backs straight off which makes it easy to hit him again & again. Wandy was able to ding him good thanks to that one, and you can bet GSP and his trainers will watch those tapes and figure out exactly how to make Bisping pay for those mistakes.


 For all his bad habits he has some good ones as well. He throws a lot of straight punches, he has very good footwork (aside from the aforementioned circling lol) and doesn't get hit a lot. He uses his jab and low kicks remarkably well and he's very quick off the punch. He's also a pretty good counter puncher. Which if the fight with Shields is any indicator, GSP would get countered to shit. GSP seems to have a NASTY habit of not moving his head a lot and stay very stagnant when he gets into jab mode and I think Mike would be one of the best fighters to capitalize on that.



> It would probably be jab & low kick, pop him with some power jabs or a left hook to rattle him a bit and make him circle to the power side, then slam him with a right straight or overhand right and keep throwing strikes at him till he goes down. They'll also know that Bisping doesn't have KO power so GSP can stay loose with his strikes and hang out in the pocket more than usual. Not much takedown danger either so GSP can use a more striking oriented stance as well for more speed & better angles.



I'd be willing to bet that Bisping has more KO power than GSP, at least with his kicks if not his hands as well. Bisping also has a pretty good chin. Getting KO'd by Henderson is nothing to scoff at, the dude hits like a truck. He went the distance with Wand and Leben, both of whom hit very, very hard. He also KO'd Jorge pretty efficiently. I think Jorge's lack of chin is greatly over exaggerated as well. He's been KO'd by Anderson, Leben and Terry Martin all of whom hit crazy hard.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Trai, I can not believe you are seriously considering Bisping as a threat to GSP. Honestly Bisping is nowhere near as good a striker and Bisping ability to counter punch only looks good because he has fought a lot of fighters with either horrible or no striking defense. The same goes for Bispings supposed stellar TD defense. Who has he defended so well against? Please who has Bisping ever defended against that could even hold a candle to the guys GSP has completely outwrestled. Bisping hasn't fought a decent wrestler since he Rashad and Hammill were green as grass. To even consider any relevant fight Bisping has had as a measuring stick to consider his TD defense even in the realm of possibility of stopping GSP is mind boggling.

It never fails to amaze me that the one thing people think is Bisping's weakness is his head movement. I honestly think the once think Bisping does best is he does a good job maintaining distance and avoiding getting hit.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> By "Miss his shots" I meant his strikes, primarily his jab, spinning back kick, and side kick. I can understand the confusion and I should have worded it better.


This thread has all the usual troll action, I think you made some valid points. I didn't think it was a riveting fight but I thought it was a good fight.

I thought Jake made the best of the stand up even though he lost most of the exchanges he was still landing and I think he landed more strikes than anyone at WW against GSP not sure. I saw Jake slipping more punches than he's getting credit for but he was still losing so I think there is some middle ground in the debate IDK.

Bisping IMO couldn't stay one his feet long enough to make the striking debate debatable.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm not saying he'd beat him outright. I'm saying that his style matches up well with him enough to make it cometitive. Believe me, I think Bisping is overrated as shit and I think GSP would beat him, but not as badly as he beat the snot out of Kos and Shields. 

And Bisping's TDD isn't stellar necessarily, it's his ability to stand back up and scramble that's really good.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

See I didn't think he beat the snot out of Shield, he won but just IMO it wasn't a beatdown.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Maia's striking has imo improved drastically and I don't know who wins the kickboxing bout but I was simply saying I would be shocked if Maia could throw Sonnen down like that again.
> 
> Agreed , Sonnen was doing well up until the trip.
> 
> ...


That is all have to say on that matter.



> e. The same goes for Bispings supposed stellar TD defense. Who has he defended so well against? Please who has Bisping ever defended against that could even hold a candle to the guys GSP has completely outwrestled. Bisping hasn't fought a decent wrestler since he Rashad and Hammill were green as grass. To even consider any relevant fight Bisping has had as a measuring stick to consider his TD defense even in the realm of possibility of stopping GSP is mind boggling.


You already answered your own question , Rashad Evans is one of the best LHW wrestlers and he did better than most guys at stuffing him , that was a few years back he can only have improved. 

Im not saying his TD is stellar but its certainly not bad its quite decent, he would most likley get taken down by GSP eventually if they faced one another but i believe its not that cut and dry, i feel that GSP wouldnt be able to just get him down and the fight would be closer than you think. 

conclusion , Bisping has a chance vs GSP a very slim one and overall i think he has better striking but that doesnt mean GSP has bad striking and i feel Bisping would lose because he wouldnt be able to stuff every takedown ,i just get annoyed the way goes OVERBOARD with Bisping is shit nonsense.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

TraMaI said:


> For all his bad habits he has some good ones as well. He throws a lot of straight punches, he has very good footwork (aside from the aforementioned circling lol) and doesn't get hit a lot. He uses his jab and low kicks remarkably well and he's very quick off the punch. He's also a pretty good counter puncher. Which if the fight with Shields is any indicator, GSP would get countered to shit. GSP seems to have a NASTY habit of not moving his head a lot and stay very stagnant when he gets into jab mode and I think Mike would be one of the best fighters to capitalize on that.


Dude, he got tagged hard by Wanderlei several times and knocked silly at the end of the 3rd round. Wandy, as much as I respect the man is hardly the best or most technical striker around though he does hit like a Mack truck. While it's true that GSP doesn't use much head movement, he still doesn't get hit much since he has the reaction time & speed to get out of the way before the punch gets there.



> I'd be willing to bet that Bisping has more KO power than GSP, at least with his kicks if not his hands as well. Bisping also has a pretty good chin. Getting KO'd by Henderson is nothing to scoff at, the dude hits like a truck. He went the distance with Wand and Leben, both of whom hit very, very hard. He also KO'd Jorge pretty efficiently. I think Jorge's lack of chin is greatly over exaggerated as well. He's been KO'd by Anderson, Leben and Terry Martin all of whom hit crazy hard.


Yeah, and how many punches did it take for Bisping to TKO Jorge after the illegal knee? Has Bisping ever scored a one shot knockdown on anyone? GSP knocked down Hughes and Shields with head kicks, flattened Alves and Fitch with a single punch, and broke Kos' face with jabs. I'd put the power advantage solidly in GSP's favour.


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## Glothin (Jun 8, 2010)

KillerShark1985 said:


> How I long for the day when Bisping takes the glory he rightfully deserves, and I believe that day is near, fcuk GSP vs Bisping, all odds point to the fact GSP and Bisping will probably never face each other, nor does it really matter if they do, its Anderson Silva who should be worried about the hunger of Michael Bisping, Anderson's days are numbered, every run has to end, even the great ones, and I strongly believe that Bisping is the man in prime position in both his current physical form and place within the division to take advantage of that fact, and he has the hunger to make it happen.
> 
> Later this year when Bisping takes that Belt from the hands of Anderson Silva himself, I will rename that day Bisping Day, and I can't wait to see what you guys have to say then.


When it comes to Michael the Count Bisping, he has 9 fans in the USA. His fans are becoming Chael Sonnen fans, being converted one by one in order. Number 3 just started clapping at some Sonnen shit talking. I am number 4. 

In all seriousness, we will party like it is 1799 when Bisping knocks out the Spider like the Spider was Eric Shafer!

Bisping does not have many weaknesses. He is afraid of Anderson Silva. That shows that he is very smart. 

Really his only weakness is weakness. That and perhaps speed. He has better than average TDD, but he is truly elite at getting to his feet. Not many can stand up like Bisping (maybe practice makes perfect). This is why I think he could make a decent fight out of a bout with GSP.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

***** de Amigo said:


> That is all have to say on that matter.


 This isn't meant at all as a smart ass remark but you realize you keep going in your post immediately after saying this right.:confused02:




> You already answered your own question , Rashad Evans is one of the best LHW wrestlers and he did better than most guys at stuffing him , that was a few years back he can only have improved.
> 
> Im not saying his TD is stellar but its certainly not bad its quite decent, he would most likley get taken down by GSP eventually if they faced one another but i believe its not that cut and dry, i feel that GSP wouldnt be able to just get him down and the fight would be closer than you think.
> 
> conclusion , Bisping has a chance vs GSP a very slim one and overall i think he has better striking but that doesnt mean GSP has bad striking and i feel Bisping would lose because he wouldnt be able to stuff every takedown ,i just get annoyed the way goes OVERBOARD with Bisping is shit nonsense.


Rashad may be one of the better wrestlers in the LHW division now but it has not always been that way. In 2007 Rashad was neither as good a wrestler as he is now but more importantly he wasn't nearly as good a fighter. Your awareness in the cage, how you move your explosiveness and how you set up your TD's is all just as important to achieving a TD. Rashad was physically soft in 2007 and visibly slower. Bisping stuffed like a single TD from Rashad in there fight anyways and it was from a gassed Rashad who didn't have the tank to go 3 rounds from what I remember but I haven't seen the fight in ages. Feel free somebody to correct me if I am wrong I just don't remember Rashad being stuffed that much in the fight.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

GSP would manhandle Bisping! On the ground as well as on the feet :thumbsup:

Anderson wouldn't be able to do anything else but murder him, if he was allowed too!


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