# JDS Reminds Everyone, Including Jon Jones, Who is the “Baddest Man on the planet."



## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

*JDS Reminds Everyone, Including Jon Jones, Who is the “Baddest Man on the planet."*








​


> *Junior dos Santos Reminds Everyone, Including Jon Jones, Who is the “Baddest Man on the Planet”*
> 
> Junior dos Santos is not a fighter that backs down from challenges, and any fighter willing to step into the heavyweight division will find that out very quickly.
> 
> ...


Source


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Cigano over Jones all day.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

One of the very few circumstances where I would be rooting for Jones.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Ari said:


> One of the very few circumstances where I would be rooting for Jones.


Really? Don't like Junior?


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

In before 'Junior is arrogant and fake'.


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

I think JDS is just trying to create controversy and garner attention recently because of his Nike deal. Hmm? He wants to earn Jon Jones money.


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

Jones should get an instant title shot when he moves up, it's only fair. It would be a very interesting fight for sure, but I think JDS would put Bones down with powerful shots to the chin.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

As it stands, JDS would kill Jon. If Jon has time to bulk up his lower body and get used to fighting at HW though - who knows. I'm certain he has the tools to be successful at HW.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

OHKO said:


> I think JDS is just trying to create controversy and garner attention recently because of his Nike deal. Hmm? He wants to earn Jon Jones money.


You're joking, surely?


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

At the moment, JDS' take down defense is just like how Machida's TDD was hyped up before he fought Jon Jones, or an elite level wrestler who's game plan was to take him down. (Note, Rashad Evans wasn't committed to taking the fight to the ground).

JDS' TDD still hasn't really been tested from a truly elite level wrestler, just like Machidas hadn't before he fought Jon.

Jon Jones scooped up Machida like he was a toy and dumped him onto his ass. That's the calibre of wrestler Jon Jones is. Dos Santos isn't on this kids level. Bulked up, Jon would toss Junior to the floor and brutalise him with elbows.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

GrappleRetarded said:


> At the moment, JDS' take down defense is just like how Machida's TDD was hyped up before he fought Jon Jones, or an elite level wrestler who's game plan was to take him down. (Note, Rashad Evans wasn't committed to taking the fight to the ground).
> 
> JDS' TDD still hasn't really been tested from a truly elite level wrestler, just like Machidas hadn't before he fought Jon.
> 
> Jon Jones scooped up Machida like he was a toy and dumped him onto his ass. That's the calibre of wrestler Jon Jones is. Dos Santos isn't on this kids level. Bulked up, Jon would toss Junior to the floor and brutalise him with elbows.


So you are saying JDS's TDD hasn't been tested...although he hasn't really had much trouble defending or getting right back up.

But then somehow you seem to "know" that Jones...a 205er....who fights 185ers would ragdoll JDS?

Didn't Jones struggle to get Rampage down early in the fight before Page faded?

JDS would land 1 big uppercut and it would be over...at least I think. 

If Bones really is this beastly and is able to truly toss the undisputed HW Champ around....then it is really a shame he is wasting his time fighting guys who failed in 185 title fights..


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

I would like to see Jones fight someone like Overeem first. Who knows, he might even have the belt before Jones moves up anyway.

Even though these guys are bigger, Jones still has the reach advantage and he uses it.

JDS is a great boxer, but he'd be outranged by Jones with no recourse for a takedown.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> So you are saying JDS's TDD hasn't been tested...although he hasn't really had much trouble defending or getting right back up.
> 
> But then somehow you seem to "know" that Jones...a 205er....who fights 185ers would ragdoll JDS?
> 
> ...


He says Cain can do the same thing to Junior, yet a one legged Junior knocked him out.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Iuanes said:


> I would like to see Jones fight someone like Overeem first. Who knows, he might even have the belt before Jones moves up anyway.
> 
> Even though these guys are bigger, Jones still has the reach advantage and he uses it.
> 
> JDS is a great boxer, but he'd be outranged by Jones with no recourse for a takedown.


Machida at what little stubby reach? Was able to connect on Jones. You are saying JDS...a superior boxer would get out "ranged" all night? You think he would sit at the end of his punches all night?

Jones has no standing KO power at 205. So he probably will have less at HW unless he goes OVEREEM on us. JDS would walk right through any weak jabs Jones had and land his own devastating shots.

Not everything is about reach. Reach certainly helps. But to say a striker like JDS would get out-boxed all night by Jones's weak punches is a little out there. 

Miguel Torres had a huge reach for 135. Very technical. Good boxer. And he got caught a few times and finished by guys giving up a half a foot of reach. Timing and technical polished skills are better to have than reach.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

He's so cocky.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

You see...in the heavyweight business all it takes is one shot. We've seen it with Buster Douglas vs Tyson and Rachman vs Lewis. But JDS is no underdog nor a fluke. Every fight the LHW title holder has been hit...if he gets hit by JDS or any HW for that matter it's gonna be tough to recuperate.

Struve should be the first one to test em followed by Cain then the champ or JDS should he lose then Cain. 

Actually I'd like to see Frank Mir vs the LHW champ too...


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

JDS would Murder Jones.... The size difference right now already isn't that big of a deal....It's not like JDS is a huge HW...


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

JDS would Murder Jones.... The size difference right now already isn't that big of a deal....It's not like JDS is a huge HW... He weighed in at 239 versus Carwin...


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

JDS wants no part of Jones. JDS's best bet would be to convince JBJ that he has a reason to stay at LHW. When JBJ goes to HW that title and division are his.

BTW this is what all you JDS nut huggers sound like.

Seriously though, I hope at some point we do get to see these two fight, I think it could be a good fight.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> At the moment, JDS' take down defense is just like how Machida's TDD was hyped up before he fought Jon Jones, or an elite level wrestler who's game plan was to take him down. (Note, Rashad Evans wasn't committed to taking the fight to the ground).
> 
> JDS' TDD still hasn't really been tested from a truly elite level wrestler, just like Machidas hadn't before he fought Jon.
> 
> Jon Jones scooped up Machida like he was a toy and dumped him onto his ass. That's the calibre of wrestler Jon Jones is. Dos Santos isn't on this kids level. Bulked up, Jon would toss Junior to the floor and brutalise him with elbows.



Junior isn't 205lbs.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> So you are saying JDS's TDD hasn't been tested...although he hasn't really had much trouble defending or getting right back up.
> 
> But then somehow you seem to "know" that Jones...a 205er....who fights 185ers would ragdoll JDS?
> 
> ...


I said his TDD hasn't been tested against a truly elite level wrestler who has fully committed to take downs and a game plan. Just like Machida, before he ran into Jones. Remember? Machida had the best TDD ever according to the majority of fans. That opinion seemed to change in a heart beat after Jones tossed him to the ground like a dogs chew toy and murdered him with elbows.

Jones isn't wasting any thing. He's going to go down in history as the greatest mixed martial arts fighter to ever exist. Love him, hate him, what ever, it doesn't matter. The kid is just too freakishly talented. After he's dried out the LHW division of every contender available, he'll then set his sights on HW and conquer that division too.

Also your pop at Vitor Belfort was unnecessary really. A failed 185'er, who happened to also be a former 205lb champion.

You think JDS would land one big uppercut, that's fine. If we're still here if that fight ever gets booked in the future, we can make a fun bet.



TheLyotoLegion said:


> He says Cain can do the same thing to Junior, yet a one legged Junior knocked him out.


Now you're in no position to call out any one on making bold claims are you Mr "let's support fighters pre-fight for months on end and ram it down every other members throats about how they're guaranteed to win, and then when they lose, instantly stop supporting said fighter(s) and pretend I didn't say any thing".

So please, pipe down sport. I'll deal with you nearer the Cain/JDS fight and give you a signature you'll never be able to erase.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

^so many ill-informed opinions and straw-men arguments without justifying them with reality. Saying Junior's never been tested and Machida had the best TDD, give me a break.

Junior is the formula to beating Jones. It's a ridiculously terrible matchup for him on paper, Junior has something around an 88% TDD and he's stopped the shots of Cain and Carwin with ease. Jones would need to spend a good 6 months with Freddie Roach to survive with Junior. JDS has better TDD stats than guys like GSP and Liddell yet you say he's not that good at TDD, I mean, you are just pulling this stuff out of thin air. Go tell on me again, maybe that'll help.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

rabakill said:


> ^so many ill-informed opinions and straw-men arguments without justifying them with reality. Saying Junior's never been tested and Machida had the best TDD, give me a break.
> 
> Junior is the formula to beating Jones. It's a ridiculously terrible matchup for him on paper, Junior has something around an 88% TDD and he's stopped the shots of Cain and Carwin with ease. Jones would need to spend a good 6 months with Freddie Roach to survive with Junior


Machida has a current 83 percent TDD ratio. Keep in mind, this is after the Jones fight occurred. Before the Jones fight it was obviously higher, we can't know what percent exactly, but I'd estimate it to be around the 86 percent mark.

That's almost identical to Junior Dos Santos' TDD percentage you're so keen to throw into your arguments.

The only one it seems with ill-informed opinions appears to be you.

Statistics and percentages only mean so much. It's all relative to a number of other factors and possibilities.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Cigano would probably beat any fighter currently on the UFC roster imo. I don't only say that because i'm probably his biggest fan on this site after Khov, you just have to look at his record, his opponents, and how easily he's beaten everyone. Jones would get wrecked within two rounds.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

rygu said:


> Cigano would probably beat any fighter currently on the UFC roster imo. I don't only say that because i'm probably his biggest fan on this site after Khov, you just have to look at his record, his opponents, and how easily he's beaten everyone. Jones would get wrecked within two rounds.


You know we're cool man, but Jones has a better record, has defeated better opponents and has arguably beaten them in more devastating fashion.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Machida has a current 83 percent TDD ratio. Keep in mind, this is after the Jones fight occurred. Before the Jones fight it was obviously higher, we can't know what percent exactly, but I'd estimate it to be around the 86 percent mark.
> 
> That's almost identical to Junior Dos Santos' TDD percentage you're so keen to throw into your arguments.
> 
> ...


hah! You have no idea what you are talking about, literally. Machida has an 80% TDD, Jones had a 50% takedown success rate in that fight only attempting 2 takedowns. Oh wait, you have no idea what you are talking about and you just pull arguments out of thin air to suit your case which is absolute bullshit, now go tell on me, I swore.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

rabakill said:


> hah! You have no idea what you are talking about, literally. Machida has an 80% TDD, Jones had a 50% takedown success rate in that fight only attempting 2 takedowns. Oh wait, you have no idea what you are talking about and you just pull arguments out of thin air to suit your case which is absolute bullshit, now go tell on me, I swore.


http://uk.ufc.com/fighter/lyoto-Machida

Official UFC statistics. You really think I'm making random arguments up out of thin air? I mean really?

I'll accept your apology in a private message. Seal it with kisses.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

On the off chance anyone who works at the UFC reads this board. I would pay $200 for Jones vs Junior on PPV and you wouldn't even have to have an under card. Just that one, 30 second fight.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

GrappleRetarded said:


> I said his TDD hasn't been tested against a truly elite level wrestler who has fully committed to take downs and a game plan. Just like Machida, before he ran into Jones. Remember? Machida had the best TDD ever according to the majority of fans. That opinion seemed to change in a heart beat after Jones tossed him to the ground like a dogs chew toy and murdered him with elbows.
> 
> Jones isn't wasting any thing. He's going to go down in history as the greatest mixed martial arts fighter to ever exist. Love him, hate him, what ever, it doesn't matter. The kid is just too freakishly talented. After he's dried out the LHW division of every contender available, he'll then set his sights on HW and conquer that division too.
> 
> ...


lol, I love how you keep saying that. You try to make it seem like I stopped supporting Chael full stop yet I was all over him and was predicting him to KO Forrest. I gave Anderson his props and I still root for the American Gangster and always will.

Btw, I'm sure a true band wagon fan wouldn't have signed up with a Lyoto Machida username when he was on a two fight skid. Just because I move on and replaced all my Chael stuff with BJ stuff doesn't make me a band wagon fan, it just means I don't dwell on losses.

If you really have that much confidence in a guy who got ko'ed in 64 seconds by a one legged man, then kudos to you. But you're clearly just a butthurt Cain fan who believes the first fight was a fluke, when it was proof that Junior can put Cain out embarrassingly quick fashion if he chooses.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

GrappleRetarded said:


> I said his TDD hasn't been tested against a truly elite level wrestler who has fully committed to take downs and a game plan. Just like Machida, before he ran into Jones. Remember? Machida had the best TDD ever according to the majority of fans. That opinion seemed to change in a heart beat after Jones tossed him to the ground like a dogs chew toy and murdered him with elbows.
> 
> Jones isn't wasting any thing. He's going to go down in history as the greatest mixed martial arts fighter to ever exist. Love him, hate him, what ever, it doesn't matter. The kid is just too freakishly talented. After he's dried out the LHW division of every contender available, he'll then set his sights on HW and conquer that division too.
> 
> ...


I used to think you were a decent poster, but your a goof. "Sport"?

Who haven't I supported? Erick Silva? What should I say? I'm in no position to talk after him losing. Does that mean I now don't support him? 

Maybe I missed everyone saying it. But I don't remember people saying Machida would stuff Jones' TDs Everyone picked Bones so obviously they figured he would get a TD and work from there. No one figured he would win by striking for 5 rounds...peoples expected him to take Machida down. People thought Machida had a very good base for a guy who was never a wrestler. But his TDD was never proven. He got trip took down by Shogun. The only wrestler he stuffed was a crusty Tito. Rashad never tried. I think you are exaggerating here.

There is a difference between a natural 6 foot 205er with good TDD and a 6'4 240lb fighter with TDD. Would you not think this? Why did you ignore the Rampage example? 

It wasn't a pop at Vitor. It was a pop at Jones. Vitor is 35 and the what 4th best MW? Jones accepted a fight with him. He is now accepting a fight with Sonnen another failed 185er who is also what? 36?....who couldn't beat the 185 champ...yet Jones is going to take him on for the 205 title? He was going to fight Hendo (huge Hendo fan) but he is a 41 year old man who'd body wouldn't allow him to fight at 185. And these are great title defenses. When Anderson already put them all away. So he will have 2 defenses in a row over 185ers. Machida doesn't even really cut weight either. 

Perhaps it isn't to you. But to me, if Jones is this beastly it is a shame he is spending months to do a show to fight a 185er who lost last time out. If he truly does go to HW by 2013 he will have wasted 2 title shots fighting MW fighters.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I used to think you were a decent poster, but your a goof. "Sport"?
> 
> Who haven't I supported? Erick Silva? What should I say? I'm in no position to talk after him losing. Does that mean I now don't support him?
> 
> ...


You've mis-read my post mate. I was responding to Lyoto Legion, not you, check the quotes. The "sport" bit was a light hearted joke towards him.

I'll get back to the rest of your post tommorrow, time for bed now.


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## BlackManRising (Oct 25, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> You've mis-read my post mate. I was responding to Lyoto Legion, not you, check the quotes. The "sport" bit was a light hearted joke towards him.
> 
> I'll get back to the rest of your post tommorrow, time for bed now.


 think Jones would rag-doll dos santos because he had a take down on machida? Is that really your argument? Probably...no, that is.. the dumbest thing I have ever heard. I would be surprised if Jones beat any top 5 HW. Jones will definitely connect on HW's and they will take his punches, question is, can Jones handle the one punch KO power alot of HW's possess? I'm just stating real stuff, if it offends u, its Prolly cuz I'm right. #thuglife


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

I hope JDS would murder Bones and piss on his grave.




....too brutal?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

The title of this thread is alot more "whatever wanna you call it (Arrogant,Cocky,Rude)" then the actual article is. In the article everything he says is very fair.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Machida at what little stubby reach? Was able to connect on Jones. You are saying JDS...a superior boxer would get out "ranged" all night? You think he would sit at the end of his punches all night?
> 
> Jones has no standing KO power at 205. So he probably will have less at HW unless he goes OVEREEM on us. JDS would walk right through any weak jabs Jones had and land his own devastating shots.
> 
> ...


I'm thinking less about punches, than punches and kicks. Secondly, I don't think Jones won't have too many qualms going for a clinch or playing the fence game. He might not get a takedown, but he'll be able to get elbows in.

As for Machida, sure, he got his shots at him, and I still want to see that rematch, but JDS is simply a different kind of striker than Machida and you know very well that Machida's game is very unique.

JDS has pretty simple set ups, at range, and with Jackson's gameplan, I doubt we'll see too much connect.

Granted, Jones' chin is a mystery, and JDS might only need one clean shot to do the job.

I'm not saying Jones would win for sure, but I'd say we'd see a fairly interesting match up that could go either way


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I used to think you were a decent poster, but your a goof. "Sport"?
> 
> Who haven't I supported? Erick Silva? What should I say? I'm in no position to talk after him losing. Does that mean I now don't support him?
> 
> ...


Just commenting on one thing.

I actually did see alot of posts saying "Machida might be able to stop Jones takedowns since he has some of the best TDD which might make for an interesting fight" 

Especially in replies to me saying that Machida does not have great takedown defense. 

So yeah... just my 2 cents from what i saw.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> You know we're cool man, but Jones has a better record, has defeated better opponents and has arguably beaten them in more devastating fashion.


Of course we're cool man, we're not always going to have the exact same opinions on everything. :hug:

Bones has probably beaten a tad better quality of opponents, but JDS isn't far behind. I don't think Cigano would be taken down against Jones and would destroy him standing. All it would take is one good shot from JDS and Jones would goto sleep, and JDS tends to land that one big KO shot unless it's to the chin of freaks like Nelson and Carwin. 

I would love to see this fight, but stylistically I see no advantages for Jones and several for JDS. Jones might have the awesome Greco, but JDS would overpower him and keep the fight standing i'm thinking. I would be shocked if Jones wasn't out cold by round 2 sometime.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Maybe i'm a fan boy but i've watched JDS spar with Shogun (granted Junior has improved alot since then) and I think that Anderson would hand him his first KO loss if the two ever fought. Unfortunately it will never happen..

Imagine if Anderson beat GSP, Bones and JDS and then retired like a boss. 

I don't think Andy could beat the big wrestlers in the HW div. but I definitely think he'd beat the strikers.


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## JWP (Jun 4, 2007)

do ppl really think junior is cocky?

if so then i think we need to clarify what it means because i think junior is the epitome of confidence without being cocky

i suppose its always a fine line

i think bones biggest problem in this fight is his lack of real 'wars'. junior will give him one if he doesnt finish quick and i see jones being broken

in future rematches though who knows. to think of a matchup between these guys in say 5 years time fascinates me for some reason


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

GrappleRetarded said:


> At the moment, JDS' take down defense is just like how Machida's TDD was hyped up before he fought Jon Jones, or an elite level wrestler who's game plan was to take him down. (Note, Rashad Evans wasn't committed to taking the fight to the ground).
> 
> JDS' TDD still hasn't really been tested from a truly elite level wrestler, just like Machidas hadn't before he fought Jon.
> 
> Jon Jones scooped up Machida like he was a toy and dumped him onto his ass. That's the calibre of wrestler Jon Jones is. Dos Santos isn't on this kids level. Bulked up, Jon would toss Junior to the floor and brutalise him with elbows.


Yeah because Cain Velasquez is the same level of wrestler that a washed up Tito was gimme a break.

Cain is as good a wrestler as Jones. His wrestling style is different but twice as relentless. His standup is weaker than Jones, but JDS' standup is still better than both.

JDS all day.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

JDS would wreck bones within 2 rounds. I honestly think the size difference, the power difference and the speed of JDS would be too much for bones.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Killz said:


> JDS would wreck bones within 2 rounds. I honestly think the size difference, the power difference and the speed of JDS would be too much for bones.


Same.

Just thinking of someone the size of JDS and skilled as JDS swinging full force at Jones is a scary thought. He wouldnt get wobbled like he did against Machida... he would get flat out knocked out.

Its possible he can take JDS down and get the win that way but i seriously doubt it. JDS takes the fight 4 out of 5 times. (IMO)


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> Yeah because Cain Velasquez is the same level of wrestler that a washed up Tito was gimme a break.
> 
> Cain is as good a wrestler as Jones. His wrestling style is different but twice as relentless. *His standup is weaker than Jones*, but JDS' standup is still better than both.
> 
> JDS all day.


No it isn't.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

El Bresko said:


> Maybe i'm a fan boy but i've watched JDS spar with Shogun (granted Junior has improved alot since then) and I think that Anderson would hand him his first KO loss if the two ever fought. Unfortunately it will never happen..
> 
> Imagine if Anderson beat GSP, Bones and JDS and then retired like a boss.
> 
> I don't think Andy could beat the big wrestlers in the HW div. but I definitely think he'd beat the strikers.


I agree with Silva beating the HW strikers including Dos Santos. In fact, Dos Santos looks like to be tailor made. No TD threat and even if it gets to the ground, no real offensive submission threat. He only boxes, while Silva uses literally EVERY striking tool to be ever invented and he drops people with jabs while walking backwards. Dos Santos may have the best striking timing on the current HW roster, but it's nowhere close to Silva's. With Silva being able to dodge Belfort's hands, Dos Santos couldn't rely on that huge overhand right he dropped Velasquez with, and technical striking is Silva's domain.

With the wrestlers, I'm not sure. A 203ish Silva certainly would be in trouble IF those wrestlers can get a hand on him (but keep in mind that their shots are much slower than Sonnen at 185), but if Silva bulked up and put on some muscles and fought at 230-240 his power would also massively increase his submission threat. So while they might get him down it's the question whether they really want to be on the ground with him.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Voiceless said:


> I agree with Silva beating the HW strikers including Dos Santos. In fact, Dos Santos looks like to be tailor made. No TD threat and even if it gets to the ground, no real offensive submission threat. He only boxes, while Silva uses literally EVERY striking tool to be ever invented and he drops people with jabs while walking backwards. Dos Santos may have the best striking timing on the current HW roster, but it's nowhere close to Silva's. With Silva being able to dodge Belfort's hands, Dos Santos couldn't rely on that huge overhand right he dropped Velasquez with, and technical striking is Silva's domain.
> 
> With the wrestlers, I'm not sure. A 203ish Silva certainly would be in trouble IF those wrestlers can get a hand on him (but keep in mind that their shots are much slower than Sonnen at 185), but if Silva bulked up and put on some muscles and fought at 230-240 his power would also massively increase his submission threat. So while they might get him down it's the question whether they really want to be on the ground with him.



I dont know about this Silva>JDS stuff.

Bonnar landed some decent shots on Anderson only they didnt phase Anderson.

JDS lands even one of those and it could be lights out. And he could use his size to push Anderson against the fence and then dirty box him to unconscious. JDS throws some vicious uppercuts.


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

There's no doubt Jones is going to fight at HW but if he does, will it be for the title? Will this mean he will have to relinquish his LHW title? 

He is fighting Chael next, then it will most likely be either winner of Gustaffson/Shogun or winner of Hendo/Machida. If he beats these guys then a big fight for him at the end of 2013 against a top HW needs to happen.


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## HorsepoweR (Jun 1, 2007)

Oh, this would be perfect for me.. Jones smashing Silva, then moving up to HW to get smashed by JDS, perfect-O.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Now people are saying Anderson Silva can beat JDS? What the hell people?

JDS would wreck every single fighter in the LHW and MW division, no doubt about it. 

I am literally lost for words by some of the comments in this thread.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Killz said:


> Now people are saying Anderson Silva can beat JDS? What the hell people?
> 
> JDS would wreck every single fighter in the LHW and MW division, no doubt about it.
> 
> I am literally lost for words by some of the comments in this thread.


I actually disagree quite a bit. I think Jones would have a legit chance of beating JDS. JDS is by no means a big HW, so if JBJ doesn't cut weight and bulks up a little during a training camp for that fight he could probably make up some of the lost ground. Now you have JDS at a reach disadvantage. Add in JBJ's TDs from the clinch, better cardio, and great top game and we have a fight on our hands.

I still think everyone overrates JDS's standup. Who has he fought that has decent standup? Most guys he faced aren't throwing combos and setting up techniques, they just throw crap and hope it lands.

BTW I am prepared for you to call me insane, say I have no clue what I am talking about, etc. It really doesn't matter to me, lets just see if JDS can hold onto that belt until JBJ gets there for his chance at it.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Just commenting on one thing.
> 
> I actually did see alot of posts saying "Machida might be able to stop Jones takedowns since he has some of the best TDD which might make for an interesting fight"
> 
> ...


Yea, perhaps there were a fair share who believed so. There are a lot of Machida fans here and a lot of people who don't care for Jones. But a strong % I know picked Jones to win the fight. And if I remember no one really had Jones landing a KO or putting on a clinic for 5 rounds. So I assume most figured Jones would win, by beating him up on the ground. 

Machida's TDD to that point....like the OP says about JDS was "not tested". To that point Machida got trip took down by Shogun. He fought Rashad but he didn't try to take him down. The only real wrestler he fought to that point was a 46 year old Randy and a washed up broken down Tito. Both slow as hell while Machida is probably the quickest/most elusive. 

What I was trying to tell him is 6 foot 205 lb Machida's good TDD or 6 foot 4 240lb JDS's good TDD. I'm assuming Jds will be much harder to take down than Machida.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> What I was trying to tell him is 6 foot 205 lb Machida's good TDD or 6 foot 4 240lb JDS's good TDD. I'm assuming Jds will be much harder to take down than Machida.


True, but also not. They both have good TDD at single/double leg. The first person to really try tying up Lyoto and going for a grecco throw also got him to the ground. JDS has AMAZING hips for getting out of single/double leg TDs, but we haven't seen anyone with a grecco/judo background clinch with him and try to get him down that way. I think if JBJ ties up with JDS, JDS ends up with his back on the ground and we get to see if his BJJ translates inside the cage.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

JDS would mess Anderson Silva up.

Fact. Brock Lesnar would also beat Anderson Silva (come at me, bro).


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> I dont know about this Silva>JDS stuff.
> 
> Bonnar landed some decent shots on Anderson only they didnt phase Anderson.
> 
> JDS lands even one of those and it could be lights out. And he could use his size to push Anderson against the fence and then dirty box him to unconscious. JDS throws some vicious uppercuts.


Bonnar landed those shots because Silva let him. Anderson's speed advantage on JDS would be ridiculous and he has the ability to take any man out with any strike. 




Killz said:


> Now people are saying Anderson Silva can beat JDS? What the hell people?
> 
> JDS would wreck every single fighter in the LHW and MW division, no doubt about it.
> 
> I am literally lost for words by some of the comments in this thread.


Why is there no doubt? What is there to show that a 240lb Dos Santos has anything on a 220lb Anderson? Who's to say that JDS can even land anything significant on Anderson? Yeah, JDS is fast but he's not as quick as Vitor and we all know how that one went. Watch JDS sparring with Shogun, I know it was a few years back and he's obviously improved but as a striker, he's just not on Anderson's level. 

Their reach is pretty much equal, Junior is taller and stronger but Anderson is faster and a better technical fighter. 
So basically IMO, if JDS doesn't shoot a double then he's in trouble.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

El Bresko said:


> Bonnar landed those shots because Silva let him. Anderson's speed advantage on JDS would be ridiculous and he has the ability to take any man out with any strike.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hold on, i probably should have said IMO. As in my mind, he would wreck them all. :thumb02:


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## tripster (Jun 5, 2006)

I have to agree... JDS is the baddest man on the planet. He's a great striker but I think his mentality is the most dangerous part about him. If he had not become an martial artist I think he would have been an assassin. I really think his brain works differently than most people.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Killz said:


> Hold on, i probably should have said IMO. As in my mind, he would wreck them all. :thumb02:


haha that definitely makes things better, but still, why do you think JDS is better than Anderson on the feet? He's not actually that much bigger (he's similar size to Nog and Anderson spars him every day), and he's nowhere near the striker Anderson is. If he doesn't shoot for a double and go for a decision win then IMO he doesn't have the ability to win.

Anderson is a better boxer than JDS.


(I only said he's the better boxer because it's obvious that he's better at the other aspects aside TDD)




Canadian Psycho said:


> JDS would mess Anderson Silva up.
> 
> Fact. Brock Lesnar would also beat Anderson Silva (come at me, bro).



I don't disagree about Brock.

Cain, Cormier, Barnett and Carwin would all probably beat him too. The difference is they would use their wrestling, Junior has too much pride in his hands.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

El Bresko said:


> haha that definitely makes things better, but still, why do you think JDS is better than Anderson on the feet? He's not actually that much bigger (he's similar size to Nog and Anderson spars him every day), and he's nowhere near the striker Anderson is. If he doesn't shoot for a double and go for a decision win then IMO he doesn't have the ability to win.
> 
> Anderson is a better boxer than JDS.
> 
> ...



Because whilst Anderson may have the more technical striking, I dont think he could take many JDS punches.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

I think Anderson has one of the better chins in MMA.  But JDS can put anyone but Roy Nelson out.

I think Anderson would win in a striking contest.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Killz said:


> Because whilst Anderson may have the more technical striking, I dont think he could take many JDS punches.


But in how many of Silva's sniping punches could Dos Santos walk¿ When Silva KOed former LHW champ Griffin with a *jab*, he was walking *backwards* and both his feet were in mid-air. 

Dos Santos could take the punches of the HW behemots, because he move quite well and their punches are slow and designed to destroy stationary targets, but Silva's punches are designed to snipe down moving targets.



jonnyg4508 said:


> I think Anderson has one of the better chins in MMA. But JDS can put anyone but Roy Nelson out.
> 
> I think Anderson would win in a striking contest.


Anyone but Roy Nelson and Shane Carwin ...and possibly Anderson Silva who rolls so well with his opponent's punches, that not much force is tranfered.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

I don't care who would win between JDS and Anderson, they will never fight and rightly so.

JDS vs Jones... bring it on. We all want to see Jones move up, many feel he should be a HW already. Nothing wrong with him being LHW, he makes weight without consequence so fair is fair... but every fight is the same story.

I want to see Jones outmuscled, I want to see him forced to scrap, I want JDS to show everyone who the boss is. He's not the only HW I'd pick over Jones either.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

It can't be said that Anderson has one of the better chins in MMA, imo. How often have we seen him hit? Rarely. And when have we ever seen him hit with a power shot? Never. 

To my knowledge, Chael Sonnen is the only man to ever knock Anderson on his arse. And that was hardly a power shot. Granted, Sonnen is awesomeness in human form.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Canadian Psycho said:


> *It can't be said that Anderson has one of the better chins in MMA, imo. How often have we seen him hit? Rarely. And when have we ever seen him hit with a power shot? Never. *


Go watch the Jorge Rivera fight. It'll put those doubts of yours to rest.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Canadian Psycho said:


> In before 'Junior is arrogant and fake'.


He doesn't claim to be the champion or carries a fake belt, though.


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## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I think Anderson has one of the better chins in MMA. *But JDS can put anyone but Roy Nelson out*.
> 
> I think Anderson would win in a striking contest.


...anyone but Roy Nelson and Shane Carwin, you mean?

.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

SM33 said:


> He's not the only HW I'd pick over Jones either.


While I would pick Jones over JDS, there are other HW's I would pick over Jones. For me, styles make fights. I agree with the statement that if Overeem starts throwing leg kicks we may see a worse leg break than Corey Hill.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

cdtcpl said:


> While I would pick Jones over JDS, there are other HW's I would pick over Jones. For me, styles make fights. I agree with the statement that if Overeem starts throwing leg kicks we may see a worse leg break than Corey Hill.


Exactly, Jones would see success in the division, but he'd likely see failure too.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> It can't be said that Anderson has one of the better chins in MMA, imo. How often have we seen him hit? Rarely. And when have we ever seen him hit with a power shot? Never.
> 
> To my knowledge, Chael Sonnen is the only man to ever knock Anderson on his arse. And that was hardly a power shot. Granted, Sonnen is awesomeness in human form.












There are many instances for most fights where Anderson basically lets the other fighter punch him in the face.

One of best in MMA may be pushing it a tad. But he has an awesome chin no doubt.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

deadmanshand said:


> Go watch the Jorge Rivera fight. It'll put those doubts of yours to rest.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Jones isn't wasting any thing. *He's going to go down in history as the greatest mixed martial arts fighter to ever exist. *


Fedor.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

RearNaked said:


> Fedor.


I don't want to argue over this opinion.

But..

205 Hendo > HW Fedor

185 Hendo < 185 Anderson

MMA math but 2 of those got finished quickly out of those 2 fights. And it wasn't Anderson.

(Huge Big Nog fan) But while Nog was Fedor's greatest wins ever, Anderson was prolly beating on Nog in sparring on the daily.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I don't want to argue over this opinion.
> 
> But..
> 
> ...


Yeah, well let`s see how many losses Jones has after a decade in the sport fighting the best. At this point in his career, Fedor looked just as unstoppable as Jones.

And no, Nog and Silva didn't train together back then. And if they did, Nog would have been subbing him left and right as back then Anderson had no BJJ. He lost to Chonan and Takase for christ's sake. 

Context is everything. You can't just ignore timelines for convenience.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I don't want to argue over this opinion.
> 
> But..
> 
> ...


fixed.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I don't want to argue over this opinion.
> 
> But..
> 
> ...


I don't want to argue over this opinion.

But...

170 lb daiju takase > anderson

ikuhisa minowa > 185 lb takase.

MMA math but two of those got finished quickly, and it wasn't minowaman. Minowaman = Goat.

And before you remind me that andersons loss was early in his career, let me also remind you that fedor's loss was in the twilight of his career. It's like liddell losing to the likes of jardine.

Do we see now why MMA math from career lows doesn't work for goat discussions? You just give the MMA math disclaimer and then very nicely go ahead and still use that as your logic.


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## MMA specialist (Nov 8, 2010)

If it was his first Heavyweight fight Cigano would KO him for sure. A lot of Bones striking is so successful because of the Anderson Silva effect but with technically superior strikers like Dos Santos and Reem, not to mention Cain (with his own skill set). I personally can't wait for Bones to move up.

I just hope Anderson gets to whoop him first.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

RearNaked said:


> Yeah, well let`s see how many losses Jones has after a decade in the sport fighting the best. At this point in his career, Fedor looked just as unstoppable as Jones.
> 
> And no, Nog and Silva didn't train together back then. And if they did, Nog would have been subbing him left and right as back then Anderson had no BJJ. He lost to Chonan and Takase for christ's sake.
> 
> Context is everything. You can't just ignore timelines for convenience.


Was more of an example. As if Nog was such a better striker then, than he is now. Anderson wasn't relevant when Nog and Fedor were at the top. Point was, Anderson probably owns Nog in any sort of sparring. And I highly doubt Nog sub's him all the time in training. Anderson is a BB under him...you don't think he can defend against him? Anderson probably holds his own on the mat. All while being 2 weight classes different. 

Doesn't matter how good Anderson was then. The whole point of my post was Anderson > Fedor. All time best. Fedor's best win is a training partner of Anderson's. A guy who routinely gets owned striking against him in practice. 

Fedor had a flawless record fighting in Pride. Everyone acts like Fedor was such a small guy. Yet the best HWs of his time were Nog at 240. CC at an even lighter weight. He never fought Barnett...Randleman went down to 205. Coleman went down to 205. Fedor was never as small as people like to think compared to the HWs back then. 

But thats just my opinion. I'll fix what I said for ya. Fedor's best win was against a guy that for the last several years has probably been owned by middleweight Anderson Silva in sparring.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> I don't want to argue over this opinion.
> 
> But...
> 
> ...


So you want to compare these fighters to Hendo. 

I used a common quality opponent. You used irrelevant fighters. 

Why even waste your time being goofy?

Who said MMA Math is the tell all? Because I used one RELEVANT example it means my whole basis for thinking ANderson is better all time is based around MMA math? You don't need to sit here and try to teach me the incorrect sciences of mma math like you know something that I don't.

Fedor was straight KO'd by 40 year old straight 206lb Hendo. Hendo was straight laced and tapped out by 185lb Anderson. Fedor lost several in a row when he came to teh States to fight legit HWs. Hell even a small 205er he couldn't get past. Fedor was great. But in my opinion not the best of all time. If Anderson went up to 205 to fight guys and started to get straight OWNED like Fedor did at the end of his career I'd say the same thing about Anderson.

Just my opinion. You can go teach someone else about the ins and outs of MMA math tho.



Guy Incognito said:


> fixed.


You mean declining? Or do you mean a man who actually started fighting real competition again after taking a couple years out to fight freak shows? 

You mean Fedor at what? 35 was past his prime...but much smaller 40 Dan Henderson was a young stallion? Fedor got KNOCKED OUT by a smaller...older man. Much older. He was a decent sized favorite in that fight. Everyone picked Fedor because "well he isn't at a size disadvantage he was against Bigfoot". 

Anderson is almost 38. When do you suppose he will start declining? The convenient thing to say would be as soon as he loses that must mean he is declining. When Fedor came to SF he was still unstoppable. When he started losing he was all of a sudden declining.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Oh well. JDS beats Fedor and Hendo.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

jonnyg4508 said:


> So you want to compare these fighters to Hendo.
> 
> I used a common quality opponent. You used irrelevant fighters.
> 
> ...


Oh so MMA math only works when you use QUALITY opponents, gotcha. So Chuck beat Vitor and Vitor KOd Franklin, so clearly Chuck would demolish Franklin ... all quality opponents there... waitaminute. 

Yes Chuck lost to Franklin at the end of his career, but according to your logic tail ends of career don't matter, every fighter is the same at 80 as at 20. Good thing for the sake of this discussion you picked a fighter (Anderson) who hasn't hit his tail end yet, otherwise you really wouldn't make any sense. Give it a couple of years, everyone ages differently.

MMA math doesn't work. Period. You have to look at careers in total. I can accept if you compare legacies in their entirities and come out with Anderson on top, but that is still debatable. 

IMO peak Arlovski (on a win streak), Sylvia, Big Nog with less miles on him, peak CroCop and near peak Coleman and Randelman are more than a match for the likes of Leites, Cote, 24-12 Sonnen, inconsistent Belfort, Lutter, Marquardt, Irvin, Bonnar etc. 

Aside from Henderson and Franklin, Anderson's wins are not that impressive. Most of them are bums that aren't even in the UFC anymore, and many others (like Sonnen, Okami, Belfort etc.) are very inconsistent. 

Compared to them, Fedor's opponents were unbeatable behemoths when he beat them .. Big Nog and CroCop ran through the world's elite HWs at the time. Coleman and Randelman were not far removed from winning the Pride GP and being the UFC HW champs, as were Timmy and Arlovski.

Oh and Fedor got knocked out by on older man WITH A 20 YEAR OLD'S HORMONES. Let's not pretend like Hendo is your average 40 year old any more than a steroid pumped racehorse is a circus pony. Unlike Hendo, Fedor aged naturally and so his career has to be looked at during it's peak.

Just my opinion. You should be the one teaching everyone about MMA math since you seem so attuned to it's rules of application and nuances.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Yea, a common quality opponent is more relevant than fluke flying submissions in the very early stages of Anderson's career. Before he was widely known. Before he was considered great. Yea, I would say the Hendo example is a TAD more relevant. Both fighting Hendo within the last 5 years. Not fights from '04 and '03. I mean call me CRAZY, but I would think a Dan Henderson example is just a little more relevant.

Your post would be all great and stuff if my whole argument was based off 1 example of MMA Math. 

This place is sort of funny like that. You use one example...and people call you a newb, and idiot, for using MMA Math. It is like a badge of honor to be the guy who posts 'MMA MATH Doesn't work!" 

So you can continue to freak out over 1 small example and entertain me with irrelevant fights from almost 10 years ago and act like they had the same significance as an Anderson title fight or a Fedor/Hendo main event. 

I apologize for posting any semblance of MMA Math. 

Take the Hendo fights TOTALLY out of the conversation. I still think Anderson is better than Fedor all time. So what are you mad at?


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Fedor never fought anybody. And when he finally stepped up in competition, he got beat down.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Who knows for sure. But in my opinion Anderson in his Prime would have beat pretty much everyone Fedor beat back then. Nog may have been able to get him down and keep him there or eventually sub him. But the others would have got sub'd with their sad sub defense. Or KO'd/outstruck. Anderson the 185lb champ would have beat all these HW monsters...in my opinion.

Lets look at Fedor's last 8 wins. Count them 8.

Pedro Rizzo: A former champ! Over a decade ago! Was coming off a beastly Ken Shamrock win!

Ishii: a Judo champ that had like 5 fights!

Jeff Monson: Yea, that pile of back back problems so far out of his prime it isn't funny!

Brett Rogers: A former tire changer. A straight can these days who beats women for glory! A never was.

AA: actually a decent win here. Always had a glass chn though. But good win here at the time.

Tim Sylvia: The slowest HW of all time. Basically a slob that shows how sad the UFC HW division was at one point.

Hong man Choi! Enough said.

Matt Linland! An old ass 185er who finished his career 2-5 in his last 7 fights!

Did he decline when he came to SF? Or did he run into actual fighters who weren't broken down, old, one-dimensional, freak shows?

Anderson can translate too any era. Even the future. At multiple weights. Fedor even in his prime wouldn't be able to handle today's HW division. At least in my opinion. And he never got the energy to drop to 205 once.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Who knows for sure. But in my opinion Anderson in his Prime would have beat pretty much everyone Fedor beat back then. Nog may have been able to get him down and keep him there or eventually sub him. But the others would have got sub'd with their sad sub defense. Or KO'd/outstruck. Anderson the 185lb champ would have beat all these HW monsters...in my opinion.
> 
> Lets look at Fedor's last 8 wins. Count them 8.
> 
> ...


Can't really argue with any of this.


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