# Striking in mma



## grkted55 (Dec 13, 2009)

I think boxing is the best striking art for mma. Teaches you to keep centered. And you learn how to take punches and evade or block punches as well as throw good effective punches. I think kicks, knees and elbows come second because take downs play a huge role, one bad knee or missed kick thrown and you are on your back. I like muay thai and I respect it but from what I see in mma, it's mostly punching in the stand up realm that's ending fights. What do you guys think?


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I'd pick muay-thai/kickboxing anyday over boxing. Legkicks all by themselves add a whole different league to the striking.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Rauno said:


> I'd pick muay-thai/kickboxing anyday over boxing. Legkicks all by themselves add a whole different league to the striking.


especially Muay thai. Leg kicks destroy boxers.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

I competed in boxing as a junior and amateur for 11 years before i started getting into kickboxing and MMA training and i feel that some aspects of pure technical boxing translate very well to MMA and are under-utlised by many MMA fighters (which was why watching GSP jab the shit out of Koscheck was so so pleasing), however other aspects are completely useless - adopting a boxing stance for example will get you taken down in a haertbeat.

Keeping distance is one of the most important aspects of striking in MMA so IMO the most important weapon is either a great jab or great leg kicks - both do the same job of keeping the distance. 

Most favour the leg kick atm in MMA but i think over the next 12-18 months we'll start to see the jab come to prominance cos it is a bad ass punch if used effectively.


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## paciFIST (Sep 24, 2010)

I think if your Muay thai /Kickboxing is very high level your going to be a handful for anybody, if however its only average it's probably not going to cut it.
Boxing on the other hand seems to be the stock striking discipline for most MMA fighters and some fairly average strikers in Boxing terms, do quite well in MMA, so I would say it's the safer option of the two imo.


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

Rauno said:


> I'd pick muay-thai/kickboxing anyday over boxing. Legkicks all by themselves add a whole different league to the striking.


they are also an invitation for a takedown
I think basically it depends on the fighter themself, ingeneral Boxing and Wrestling are an effective duo and MThai and BJJ work well together
I've seen Boxing and BJJ make a great fighter as well (provided they have a strong chin) but I've not seen too many greats that had Wrestling as thier main Ground style and MThai or Kickboxing as thier main Standup

Chuck Liddell comes to mind but he was like 90% punches so you could almost say his style in the cage was at least as close to Boxing as it was KickBoxing


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

Killstarz said:


> especially Muay thai. Leg kicks destroy boxers.


Pure Boxers sure but you dont' find too many Boxers in mma that don't cross train so that's a useless bonus
it's like saying your grappling is good enough to bust up an Aikido newb so clearly you don't need any BJJ...

you arn't going to find someone in MMA who has a few months of Aikido as thier only ground training, just like you arn't going to find someone in MMA that uses Boxing exclusivly. So that argument is really pointless.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, Pedro Rizzo kicked out Randy Couture's legs in their second fight even though he won. Also Bas Rutten kicked out the legs of his last opponent in spectacular fashion. That just shows how deadly kicks are!


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Look at Thiago Alves and his leg kicks, those little suckers are brutal.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, they did take out Kos. He couldn't shoot anymore cause of those kicks. Then after that fight Kos knocked out Yoshiyuki Yoshida!


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

I can honestly say this is the first VIABLE theory as to why boxing is the best striking base for MMA that I've heard. I commend you for that as I'm usually spurning on Muay Thai or Dutch Kickboxing as the best. I see what you're saying, but I'll say this. No fighter will survive without the ability to throw clean, hard kicks as well. Boxing may be a fantastic base, but it also needs things added to it's repertoire to mix up the striking game and not become predictable (See: Rampage, Chuck) and get outstruck by kicks or timed easily. The same way that just a basic wrestler or BJJ guy needs to take his base and flesh it out.


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## Kin (May 22, 2007)

I think that the footwork, head movement, and distancing could be EXTREMELY useful for MMA. I also believe that someone who is very adept at using footwork and head movement to control distance would KILL mofos! Sorta like Frankie Edgar, but his boxing by pure boxing standards is kinda meh.

Though I think a good Muay Thai guy could/probably would give a good boxer fits with kicks and knees, a boxer has a pretty good chance of winning in MMA. If he forced a boxing match on the nakmuay and threw a lot of big punches early on, he could very well end the fight before getting worn down by leg kicks. While this doesn't work as well in kickboxing (though it has happened) because of the standing 8 count, in MMA there is no 'break time' to recover, so getting rocked once means you're pretty close to done.

An old match between and American kickboxer (which is essentially boxing + karate) and a Muay Thai practitioner had the American Kickboxer up for the first round or two. In fact, he dropped the Thai several times in the early rounds, but the Thai recovered and kept chiseling at the kickboxer's legs. By the 3rd or 4th round, the kickboxer was pretty much gone.

The fight is Rick Roufus vs Kiatsongrit though I can't seem to find a vid on youtube of the earlier rounds where it happened. If I do, I'll edit this post.

But yeah, long story short, a good boxer who could control range like Edgar or Machida, move his head, and throw with immense power would be a nightmare to strike against even if you had more tools. And a good boxer, by boxing standards, could do all of those things. The only problem is that most of those guys aren't well adapted to MMA or haven't even tried to make the jump.

Long story short, I don't think I'd say it's better for MMA than Muay Thai but (contrary to what many believe), I would argue that it is MT's equal.

EDIT:


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Remember, Kin, leg kicks aren't the only weapons a MT/KB fighter has. They also have head kicks, which are longer range and do as much and probably far more damage than hooks, and body kicks. Body kicks, when used correctly, will gas someone and make them quit far, far faster than leg kicks.


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## Kin (May 22, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> Remember, Kin, leg kicks aren't the only weapons a MT/KB fighter has. They also have head kicks, which are longer range and do as much and probably far more damage than hooks, and body kicks. Body kicks, when used correctly, will gas someone and make them quit far, far faster than leg kicks.


True, but even so those tend not to go as far against boxers as leg kicks. Body and head level attacks are more instinctive for a boxer to defend against than leg kicks. 

I think that it would really come down to the pacing of the fight. If the boxer stayed back too much and let his opponent settle in and initiate the action, he'll get picked apart and worn down by the punch-kick combos. If, on the other hand, the boxer swarms the nakmuay and is highly aggressive, there's a good chance that he could drop him early with the small gloves. Defending against kicks is the weakness of boxing, but defending punches is the weakest point of MT/KB and with MMA gloves there's little margin for error.

Obviously in an MMA match both guys, presumably, have taken steps to correct these weaknesses but IMO it takes longer to be able to defend a competent boxer's combos than it does to marginally diffuse leg kicks.

Another thing to consider in this argument is not whether boxing could beat muay thai, but how each of them stack up against other styles.

I would argue, as the OP did, that boxing's footwork, head movement, and distancing could wreak havoc against wild sluggers and even frustrate wrestlers, while Muay Thai's comparatively static approach leaves those practitioners more likely to get caught by a lucky punch or taken down.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Athleticism is key.


I'm decently athletic and the low kick is the most natural strike for me. But some guys (wrestlers especially) have trouble with the pivoting in muay thai and would make much better boxers.



I have to disagree about leg kicks being easier to diffuse than boxing combos. Unconditioned shins make checking equally painful. I have no problem going shin to shin until they stop checking kicks.


That I believe to be the biggest advantage over boxers; elbow and shin conditioning.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

grkted55 said:


> I think boxing is the best striking art for mma. Teaches you to keep centered. And you learn how to take punches and evade or block punches as well as throw good effective punches. I think kicks, knees and elbows come second because take downs play a huge role, one bad knee or missed kick thrown and you are on your back. I like muay thai and I respect it but from what I see in mma, it's mostly punching in the stand up realm that's ending fights. What do you guys think?


You have some valid thoughts there. If you look at MMA, striking from most fighters consists most of the time of punching. That is probably, because there are some issues about kicking. Lifting one leg from the ground (kicking) automatically puts you in an disadvantageous balance situation, so you are more vulnerable to takedowns as indicate. A low kick makes you also vulnerable to a counter punch, especially if you pull down you arm for momentum. Kicking is also slower than punching. After each kick you have to readjust your stance to kick again. And kicking needs far more energy than punching.

However, pure boxing is not the pinnacle of striking in MMA, because you cannot translate boxing 1-to-1 into MMA. From whatever other art you come, you have to adjust. MMA follows it's own rules. The upright boxing stance for example is highly vulnerable to take downs, because the center of the bodyweight is quite high and foot stance doesn't give you the balance as a lower stance. Also a shooting wrestler wouldn't have to be afraid of a knee knocking him out like from a Muay Thai guy. Defensive work is different, because the smaller gloves allow your opponent to easilier punch trough your cover, hence the many overhand powershots.

MMA develops its own way of striking which differs from the pure striking arts. I think there will be a stronger focus on exploring what pure boxing has to give in the future, but the kicking arts will never be discarded.

BTW to my knowledge modern Muay Thai is strongly influenced from Western boxing. It were the Dutch who had a strong focus on boxing and therefore were able to dominated in Muay Thai, which let the Thai to adjust their Muay Thai.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, our arms are meant to be in the air and by instinct that is what we are going to use in MMA. Kicks take a more conscious effort to execute. And it is true that the boxing in MMA is very different from the boxing in actual boxing!


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

edlavis88 said:


> I competed in boxing as a junior and amateur for 11 years before i started getting into kickboxing and MMA training and i feel that some aspects of pure technical boxing translate very well to MMA and are under-utlised by many MMA fighters (which was why watching GSP jab the shit out of Koscheck was so so pleasing), however other aspects are completely useless - adopting a boxing stance for example will get you taken down in a haertbeat.
> 
> Keeping distance is one of the most important aspects of striking in MMA so IMO the most important weapon is either a great jab or great leg kicks - both do the same job of keeping the distance.
> 
> Most favour the leg kick atm in MMA but i think over the next 12-18 months we'll start to see the jab come to prominance cos it is a bad ass punch if used effectively.


I agree, and the days of not having to tailer art forms to fit MMA are gone.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

slapshot said:


> I agree, and the days of not having to tailer art forums to fit MMA are gone.


Art forums in MMA? What?


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## themmazone (Dec 1, 2010)

I agree with Rauno that Muay Thai would be the best to study striking from if you are going into MMA. Boxing has the fighter stand straight up when throwing a punch which makes for an easy takedown in MMA. If you training boxing for striking you just won't ever have a chance to work on your sprawl and brawl. A lot of boxers talk about how much power they can throw but the same throw in boxing would get you tapped out in MMA! My advise is to stay away from boxing!


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, we all know what happened when a boxer came to the UFC. Kickboxing or maui thai are much better choices. As a wrestler I personally prefer kickboxing!


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## themmazone (Dec 1, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Yeah, we all know what happened when a boxer came to the UFC. Kickboxing or maui thai are much better choices. As a wrestler I personally prefer kickboxing!


I am asking a question not stating a comment. Doesn't kickboxing have the same issue as boxing? (I have never studied kickboxing so I really don't know) There is absolutely no need to worry about someone shooting the legs when throwing a kick or punch?


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well if you are a kickboxer I think it is easier. If you are a wrestler I think it is easier to adjust to that one. Either way it depends!


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## themmazone (Dec 1, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Well if you are a kickboxer I think it is easier. If you are a wrestler I think it is easier to adjust to that one. Either way it depends!


Ya, very true, good point! I agree


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## Kin (May 22, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> Athleticism is key.
> 
> 
> I'm decently athletic and the low kick is the most natural strike for me. But some guys (wrestlers especially) have trouble with the pivoting in muay thai and would make much better boxers.
> ...


There are other methods for diffusing leg kicks beside checking. Now again, I did say 'marginally.' It definitely takes a while to be able to competently check all of the kicks coming at you and to gain the conditioning to do it. I would still argue that's easier/quicker to learn than how to defend vicious combinations, as it's a much narrower area of study. 

But even so, I'd probably try to arm a boxer with the San Da style kick-catch defense for leg kicks. Just dipping the knee forward/sinking into a slightly lower stance will change the angle of the attacked leg and cause the kick to miss the sciatic nerve and slide up the leg into the hip. You can do that to set up a catch like in Sanda or simultaneously knock the guy over with a punch (which happens sometimes in MT and MMA). Obviously it doesn't reduce the damage quite as much as checking, but it does a TON to diffuse the stopping power of a leg kick. And it's easy to learn. 



themmazone said:


> I agree with Rauno that Muay Thai would be the best to study striking from if you are going into MMA. Boxing has the fighter stand straight up when throwing a punch which makes for an easy takedown in MMA. If you training boxing for striking you just won't ever have a chance to work on your sprawl and brawl. A lot of boxers talk about how much power they can throw but the same throw in boxing would get you tapped out in MMA! My advise is to stay away from boxing!


Uhhh dude Muay Thai guys are the MOST upright mofos around. Boxers tend to be much lower than them. Maybe what you mean is that they tend to stand too sideways...

As for getting taken down, MT is equally succeptible. Every striking artist is succeptible to being taken down if he doesn't train TDD. You say training boxing won't give you a chance for sprawl and brawl, well NEITHER WILL MUAY THAI in its pure form.

Though it is up to debate as to whether or not boxing better than MT for MMA, there is NO question about whether or not you should crosstrain in boxing. That is to say, you absolutely should (whether you compete in MMA or Muay Thai)! In the former, especially, hands are the primary striking weapon of choice. How wouldn't it help to sharpen those tools and just as importantly, the defense against them?!!?

To follow your advice would be folly.


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## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

Boxing is the best base for sure, just wait until a powerful, explosive good boxer comes into MMA (not saying one has to come from boxing, but an MMA fighter who comes along who has concentrated time on boxing and has the natural abilities, which is slowly happening). Give a guy with Edgars speed and movement, more power and a longer reach and he wil demolish absolutely everyone on the feet. 

Of course though, they will need to adapt, need to know how to work in an MMA clinch, need to learn TDD, submission defence, check leg kicks etc. A "pure" boxer will never do well in MMA, but an MMA fighter with great boxing ability who can defend Muay Thai is going to be a wrecking force. I have trained with Olympians, legendary boxers, legendary Muay Thai fighters and I know for absolute sure who I find more dangerous. Look how good Rampage has done, a guy with TDD and poor-average boxing. Give a great boxer the same TDD or someone with great TDD great boxing, and the wrecking machine Alvez will seem like a lightweight.

Look at the evolution of the sport. Started with everyone learning BJJ, then wrestling took over. Now people are learning some ok boxing, it is suddently becoming much more frequent in MMA and effective (Dos Santos, Rampage, St Pierre, Florian, Rashad, Eddie Alvarez, Melendez, Edgar, BJ Penn etc etc). The problem before why it wasn't used, is since no good boxers came over and tried to actually learn the other basic fundamentals of MMA due to there being more money in boxing, nobody learnt it so it never got as much respect. In the last few years, and even last year with a simple jab, it is becoming more and more known to be effective. Give it a few more years and all of a sudden the BJJ fighter with muay Thai or vice-versa (muay thai fighter with BJJ) is going to be overtaken by the wrestler with boxing or vice-versa (boxer with wrestling).


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

kantowrestler said:


> Art forums in MMA? What?


haha very funny!


Any base is fine as long as your fundamentals are sound. I dont know dose anyone here train in just one aspect anymore? At my kids gym they train everything, one day is striking boxing & Muay Thai, the next BJJ & judo, the next sparing and wrestling.

I have a feeling most gyms will go to or have already gone to a system like this. So for fighters coming up I think they will have a solid mix. Jim Harrison basically said to be able to be well rounded enough to compete fighters need to take what works out of each style learn it and keep trucking. I dont see any one striking style as having advantages inherently a lot depends on the person.


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## caulomike (Dec 25, 2010)

I think fundamentals of boxing is good in UFC as far as striking is concern.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, but those fundamentals can only take you so far. You need some kind've grappling to compliment your boxing if you choose that as your primary striking style. One good example is that Nick Diaz has boxing mixed with BJJ and it works for him really well!


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## Kin (May 22, 2007)

kantowrestler said:


> Yeah, but those fundamentals can only take you so far. *You need some kind've grappling to compliment your boxing if you choose that as your primary striking style.* One good example is that Nick Diaz has boxing mixed with BJJ and it works for him really well!


The same is true about any striking style. Conversely, any grappling style you choose will require you to become competent at some form of striking to compliment it. In fact, I've even heard people say that you need to mix your martial arts no matter what style your primary one is... crazy right?


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well I've kind've always known that. You need to choose a specific striking style that goes hand in hand with a grappling style. Obviously someone has one primary fighting style and they need a secondary style to compliment their primary style!


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Well I've kind've always known that. You need to choose a specific striking style that goes hand in hand with a grappling style. Obviously someone has one primary fighting style and they need a secondary style to compliment their primary style!


exactly
I think the goal is to be equally dangerous/capable in all areas so that you are not a boxer wrestler but a mma fighter, but that goal is virtually impossible to attain honestly, to be equally capable in all areas...


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

TraMaI said:


> Remember, Kin, leg kicks aren't the only weapons a MT/KB fighter has. They also have head kicks, which are longer range and do as much and probably far more damage than hooks, and body kicks. Body kicks, when used correctly, will gas someone and make them quit far, far faster than leg kicks.


but again, all kicks are an invitation to a takedown
very few punches are
also I'd personaly takea body kick over a leg kick any day


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

themmazone said:


> I agree with Rauno that Muay Thai would be the best to study striking from if you are going into MMA. Boxing has the fighter stand straight up when throwing a punch which makes for an easy takedown in MMA. If you training boxing for striking you just won't ever have a chance to work on your sprawl and brawl. A lot of boxers talk about how much power they can throw but the same throw in boxing would get you tapped out in MMA! My advise is to stay away from boxing!


well my advice to you is to give better advice

standing straight up is European style, Mexican or American or Peurto Rican etc fighters don't generally do that
unless they have a big height advantage
you don't really know enough about boxing to condem it...


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, I have noticed that trend in boxing. It's also that way in regular MMA. You look at Cheick Kongo he mainly stands up straight!


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

One thing I think being overlooked here in Muay Thai is the clinch game and the rudimentary grappling/sweeps involved.

Put a boxer up against MT fighter with MMA rules and he is going to get clinched and kneed to death and probably thrown around a bit too. Proximity always happens in a fight no matter how good your footwork or how long your range is.

I get that we're talking about building a base here, but you can't ignore some of the grappling abilities of Muay Thai even when alot of self styled MT practitioners ignore it themselves. A boxer isn't trained to deal with extremely close range and clinching scenarios. You can't punch someone you're hugging.


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## Kin (May 22, 2007)

Iuanes said:


> One thing I think being overlooked here in Muay Thai is the clinch game and the rudimentary grappling/sweeps involved.
> 
> Put a boxer up against MT fighter with MMA rules and he is going to get clinched and kneed to death and probably thrown around a bit too. Proximity always happens in a fight no matter how good your footwork or how long your range is.
> 
> I get that we're talking about building a base here, but you can't ignore some of the grappling abilities of Muay Thai even when alot of self styled MT practitioners ignore it themselves. A boxer isn't trained to deal with extremely close range and clinching scenarios. You can't punch someone you're hugging.


Keep in mind that this isn't pure boxer vs pure MT fighter, because neither exist in MMA. It's an MMA fighter who has boxing as a striking base vs an MMA fighter who has MT as a striking base. So that means that the 'boxer' would be familiar with striking in the clinch ala dirty boxing, and would be used to wrestling tie ups which can can negate Muay Thai clinch work.

Because it's MMA, both guys will most likely favor wrestling clinches, so the 'MT vs Boxing' debate would probably be settled in the striking range. 

On a sidenote, I recently saw a boxer vs nakmuay fight in a local MMA show. There was this one guy with huge KO power who had competed in boxing for a long time. Now he's hardly a paragon of the sport because he was a sloppy brawler and I'd never have guessed that he boxed if I hadn't heard about his extensive background elsewhere. The other guy was a good Muay Thai fighter with excellent jiujitsu.

The boxer ignored the leg and body kicks and punched the Muay Thai fighter in the face with some huge shots. The nakmuay was rocked and dropped several times, but his superior jiujitsu kept him in the game. In the second round he round kicked the boxer in the head then followed up with punches to get the TKO victory... So I guess, in the end BJJ wins again?!?! =P


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Yeah, I have noticed that trend in boxing. It's also that way in regular MMA. You look at Cheick Kongo he mainly stands up straight!


that's because he's so tall, when you are taller then your opponent standing more upright helps you work with that advantage
to be honest the only people Kongo has fought that really took him down a lot were Camerillo and Velasquez and they are high end Wreslters so his stance wouldn't have mattered they'd have gotten him down if he had a jetpack strapped to his ass so his stance didn't really impact him thus far in a negative way.


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

Iuanes said:


> One thing I think being overlooked here in Muay Thai is the clinch game and the rudimentary grappling/sweeps involved.
> 
> Put a boxer up against MT fighter with MMA rules and he is going to get clinched and kneed to death and probably thrown around a bit too. Proximity always happens in a fight no matter how good your footwork or how long your range is.
> 
> I get that we're talking about building a base here, but you can't ignore some of the grappling abilities of Muay Thai even when alot of self styled MT practitioners ignore it themselves. A boxer isn't trained to deal with extremely close range and clinching scenarios. You can't punch someone you're hugging.


you can strike from the clinch range with punches
maybe you've heard of Team Quest?
It's called Dirty Boxing and it's really common actually. But on top of that you have to consider if you have coupled Boxing with Wrestling the Clinch is less of a problem for you.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Dude, you double posted again. However, I agree that Team Quest specializes in the clinch and dirty boxing. That comes from their Greco background!


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## x77 (Jan 22, 2011)

grkted55 said:


> I think boxing is the best striking art for mma. Teaches you to keep centered. And you learn how to take punches and evade or block punches as well as throw good effective punches. I think kicks, knees and elbows come second because take downs play a huge role, one bad knee or missed kick thrown and you are on your back. I like muay thai and I respect it but from what I see in mma, it's mostly punching in the stand up realm that's ending fights. What do you guys think?


muay-thai/kickboxing for sure. the kicks and kneesa are only weak if the fighter knows how to counter them or if they're quick enough to catch one.


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

x77 said:


> muay-thai/kickboxing for sure. the kicks and kneesa are only weak if the fighter knows how to counter them or if they're quick enough to catch one.


you shouldn't count on your opponent lacking an ability
that is unwise
I mean training to counter knees and kicks is pretty standard fare at this point in mma


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Dude, you double posted again. However, I agree that Team Quest specializes in the clinch and dirty boxing. That comes from their Greco background!


I used to multiquote but then I would forget what I wanted to say to the first person by the time I was all the way done with the thread, so now I just quote everyone individually to give each post the time it deserves


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## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

I think both Homminick and Guillard showed what good boxing technique can do to a guy with ordinary boxing technique. Simple punches, very effective, particularly against scrappy stand-up fighters like Roop.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well Homminick definately earned his title shot. As for Guillard, he should definately be considered for a title shot in the near future. Lastly, Roop at the end of the fight is a demonstration of what happens when an inexperienced official doesn't completely know what he's doing!


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

well Melvin has defeated Seever who is very good at pure Striking and he defeated Dunham but Dunham is the only really big name (in MMA) fighting that he has defeated unless I am forgetting someone right now. So while he's looked great against the more middle of the road guys I want to see him fight the more high end 155ers before I see him on a title shot, I'd like to see him fight Maynard or Cerrone for example but I think Cowboy trains with him so that probubly won't happen. Kenny Florian maybe. 
But I do think he has had a pretty darn noticable improvement since going to Jackson's camp.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, amazing how Guillard has fought so many fights and yet hasn't really fought any big name fighters. But it looks like he's heading up there. If he could fight some good name fighters!


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

that's one reason Florian came to mind he was probubly 5 or 6 fights after his loss to Sherk before he fought someone that was legit high end at 155. 

Guillard and Gomi maybe...
that could be a good striking match at 155


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Gomi is just coming off of a loss though so I'm not sure if that fight makes sense. I'm not sure if Florian makes sense either cause he is still coming off of that loss against Maynard. So does it make sense to put one of two fighters who are coming off losses against a guy who just launched himself into the title picture?


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Gomi is just coming off of a loss though so I'm not sure if that fight makes sense. I'm not sure if Florian makes sense either cause he is still coming off of that loss against Maynard. So does it make sense to put one of two fighters who are coming off losses against a guy who just launched himself into the title picture?


well for one thing you have to have them fight someone after a loss, can't always afford to match up two guys coming off of a loss and secondly Gomi's last fight was a win over Tyson Griffon I thought or did I miss one of his fights?


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

BearInTheClinch said:


> well for one thing you have to have them fight someone after a loss, can't always afford to match up two guys coming off of a loss and secondly Gomi's last fight was a win over Tyson Griffon I thought or did I miss one of his fights?


Gomi was submitted by Clay Guida very recently.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, and it kind've broke my heart to see Gomi get submitted cause it probably means he's not going to be in the UFC that much longer if he can't put some wins together. I honestly think a match between BJ and Gomi should happen should BJ loose to Fitch. This is a rematch worth bucks!


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

holy cow I must have missed that fight altogether


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Which fight are you referring to? A rematch between BJ and Gomi is hypothetical. BJ first has to fight Fitch and Gomi needs to reconsider things!


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