# M1 holding strikeforce to ransom over fedor???



## vaj3000 (Dec 28, 2008)

M-1 Global holding Strikeforce to ransom over Fedor’s contract terms

Those crazy Russians seem to be at it again with news emerging that M-1 Global are holding Strikeforce to ransom over the contract of WAMMA heavyweight champion, Fedor Emelianenko, so much so that the proposed fight in May against Fabricio Werdum might not happen.

A recent report on BloodyElbow.com reads: 

“Fedor Emelianenko, the world’s No. 1-ranked heavyweight, will not appear on the April [CBS] card. Emelianenko’s proposed bout with Fabricio Werdum has been pushed to May [on Showtime]. However, multiple sources are indicating that the stoic Russian could be absent from both events as his management attempts to re-tool terms of Emelianenko’s existing contract with Strikeforce.”

The fight was originally thought to be happening in April in Nashville, Tennessee, although it became apparent this week that May seemed more likely. One reason for the delay now appears to be these contract talks between Strikeforce and M-1, something that hardly comes as a surprise to be honest.

By Michael Pepper. (Follow me on Twitter)


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

But you know its so obvious that Dana and the UFC not M-1 are to blame for the fact that Fedor and the UFC couldn`t come to terms. :confused03:


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

wow that is seriously not something i want to hear. well there goes M1's legitimacy if this is true. How can strikeforce have overeem *and* fedor on the shelf?this better just be wild speculation and not reality or we might have another affliction bomb.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Strikeforce doesn`t need Fedor, they were doing good before him and have built up other stars as well. Hell IMO Fedor upsets the pay structure and his pay combined with M-1 bullshit does more harm than good for Strikeforce IMO.


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

how much is fedor paid compared to dan henderson? they survived without him but it sucks when some of your divisions can be held ransom by any one fighter. if they were doing so good why sign on his terms-they have lawyers, make the contract lock tight so that M1 can't bullshit later. 

M1 is just pissing me off more and more, everytime i hear someone mention them i struggle not to roll my eyes and wish fedor didn't let these guys screw with his career. Mousasi gets it why cant fedor?


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## vaj3000 (Dec 28, 2008)

how did they let mousassi out? thats what i want to know!


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## vaj3000 (Dec 28, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Strikeforce doesn`t need Fedor, they were doing good before him and have built up other stars as well. Hell IMO Fedor upsets the pay structure and his pay combined with M-1 bullshit does more harm than good for Strikeforce IMO.


ditto


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Strikeforce doesn`t need Fedor, they were doing good before him and have built up other stars as well. Hell IMO Fedor upsets the pay structure and his pay combined with M-1 bullshit does more harm than good for Strikeforce IMO.


 finally, somebody else that sees the light. The UFC is making strikefarce overpay on purpose for guys like Fedor, Huerta and Hendo. They are g gona imbalance the pay structure, piss fighters off and force SF to try and recoup $ by getting Fedor to fight more... which we all know doesnt happen.

Dana outsmarts another competitor, its getting old, real fast.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Thelegend said:


> how much is fedor paid compared to dan henderson? they survived without him but it sucks when some of your divisions can be held ransom by any one fighter. if they were doing so good why sign on his terms-they have lawyers, make the contract lock tight so that M1 can't bullshit later.
> 
> M1 is just pissing me off more and more, everytime i hear someone mention them i struggle not to roll my eyes and wish fedor didn't let these guys screw with his career. *Mousasi gets it why cant fedor?[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Yeah right! I wonder whats up with that.


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

vaj3000 said:


> ditto


Yup. For mma geeks like us, Fedor fighting is a big deal.

But not for the average joe watching SF on CBS or Showtime. That guy would rather watch Brett Rogers brawl...


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

jcal said:


> Thelegend said:
> 
> 
> > how much is fedor paid compared to dan henderson? they survived without him but it sucks when some of your divisions can be held ransom by any one fighter. if they were doing so good why sign on his terms-they have lawyers, make the contract lock tight so that M1 can't bullshit later.
> ...


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

jcal said:


> Thelegend said:
> 
> 
> > how much is fedor paid compared to dan henderson? they survived without him but it sucks when some of your divisions can be held ransom by any one fighter. if they were doing so good why sign on his terms-they have lawyers, make the contract lock tight so that M1 can't bullshit later.
> ...


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## vaj3000 (Dec 28, 2008)

alizio said:


> jcal said:
> 
> 
> > mousasi isnt russian and doesnt have as strong ties to m1 or ownership or angry russian mobsters that know where his family lives if he decides to leave.
> ...


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Actually rumors of M-1 being tied to the Russian mafia are pretty common so while I personally doubt the relationship it definatly isn't a ridiculous statement.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

People act like Fedor doesn't know what's going on. He's an OWNER of M-1 Global, I can't believe how many people are fooled by his phony persona. 

"B-But, IT'S NOT HIM! IT'S HIS MANAGEMENT! FEDOR'S INNOCENT!"


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

He's an owner. Guess what If I go buy shares in microsoft I am a part owner but that doesn't mean I have any control. The truth is that Fedor likely got a percentage deal with his contract but that he has absolutly nothing to do with the day to day operations and its more a financial deal than a control one.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

I don't doubt he has limited control, but this notion that he's just the mindless drone of M-1 is pretty silly to me.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

what is limited control? If you own a small % of a company that is given in an employment contract it is typically a zero control deal more similar to a profit sharing agreement (with a liability risk) than it is to a partial owner. Does he know if its shady of course is any of it within his control, most likely none of it is.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Toxic said:


> what is limited control? If you own a small % of a company that is given in an employment contract it is typically a zero control deal more similar to a profit sharing agreement (with a liability risk) than it is to a partial owner. Does he know if its shady of course is any of it within his control, most likely none of it is.


So you are saying Fedor has NO control over his career?


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

fedor partly owns M1, and he is not the only fighter there


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

*M-1* :angry07:


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## vaj3000 (Dec 28, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Actually rumors of M-1 being tied to the Russian mafia are pretty common so while I personally doubt the relationship it definatly isn't a ridiculous statement.



Wow for real??? lol no wonder UFC will not touch em with a barge pole. Where did u guys get this idea from?


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Seriously there has been so much controversy over Fedor's contacts and the way they are handled by M-1 that its is starting to damage the reputation of the sport.

When it was only UFC been effected by the controversy I was kind of leaning on Fedors side of the situation, aided by the fact he did sign for Strikeforce and I personally thought that was a good thing because I like the Strikeforce HW division and appreciated there are a lot of good fights we can see him in at SF.

But now its getting beyond a joke, at the end of the day you have to look at the number of top HW's at the UFC and SF and think that they are happy with the terms and conditions, then you have to think about all the fighters working away in lesser organisations and think what they would do for the chance to fight in one of these 2 big organisations.

Then taking that into consideration you have to think why is Fedor the only person that cant seem to agree to those terms, even when I am willing to bet he has a better contract than anyone else at SF and was possibility offered as good a contract as anyone by the UFC.

The sport has to be above any one fighter, If Fedor does not fight this year then I would support a boycott of ALL M-1 fighters from the UFC and SF, if any fighter wants to stick with M-1 then even Fedor then so be it they do so knowing they can never fight for UFC or SF


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## daeyeth (Nov 19, 2009)

Organized crime being involved with fight promoters is nothing new, ever since the days of boxing. It's a known fact that PRIDE got into debt with the Yakuza, the japanese mafia, which is why they had to sell the company to the UFC.

And what M-1 does with Fedor, well, you can't do anything about it. They own one of the best fighters in the world, they know it, everybody else knows it, and so they take advantage of it.


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## Jimdon (Aug 27, 2008)

I don't doubt that M-1 protects Fedor fiercely, he's their only true meal ticket.

I also doubt that Fedor cares, seems like he cares more about his family and life at home then he ever did about fighting (not a knock on the guy, he's just got different priorities), he's in it for the paycheck to take care of his family, nothing he has ever said tells me he gives two $hits about being 'the best fighter in the world'.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

vaj3000 said:


> M-1 Global holding Strikeforce to ransom over Fedor’s contract terms
> 
> Those crazy Russians seem to be at it again with news emerging that M-1 Global are holding Strikeforce to ransom over the contract of WAMMA heavyweight champion, Fedor Emelianenko, so much so that the proposed fight in May against Fabricio Werdum might not happen.
> 
> ...


Not to be too harsh to whoever wrote this piece, but there's more than one rumor floating around as to what's going on with Fedor.

There's speculation that Fedor's management is pissed that he's fighting Werdum (which is, actually, kind of reasonable) instead of Overeem. There's frustration that he's being treated pretty much as the sole draw for the card, instead of being put on a card stacked with Strikeforce fighters (which seems to have been proven wrong at this point, with the announcement of Aoki vs. Melendez, Shields vs. Henderson and Lawal vs. Mousasi).

Pushing the bout to Showtime is stupid from a management standpoint, but it's doubtful they're "holding Strikeforce ransom." They have an interest in Strikeforce's continuity, because Fedor needs somewhere with credibility where he can fight so that, at the very least, they can leverage that possibility into future negotiations with the UFC.

Oh, and this whining about "crazy Russians" is getting a little old. I realize that most people don't understand why Fedor didn't get involved with the UFC, but loyalty is a big thing for him, and Fedor's management has been pretty damn loyal to him, which is more than can be said for many of the fighters from back in Pride.



daeyeth said:


> Organized crime being involved with fight promoters is nothing new, ever since the days of boxing. It's a known fact that PRIDE got into debt with the Yakuza, the japanese mafia, which is why they had to sell the company to the UFC.
> 
> And what M-1 does with Fedor, well, you can't do anything about it. They own one of the best fighters in the world, they know it, everybody else knows it, and so they take advantage of it.


Be very, very careful when you say, "it's a known fact that Pride got into debt with the Yakuza," because, actually, it's not.

The relationship between Pride management and the Yakuza is not exactly clear. The presence of Yakuza leaders like Mr. I in the company is well known, but the actual details of that relationship are complicated, and whether there was the lending of money involved or whether the Yakuza were simply primary investors, or whether they were even just individuals who decided to get involved with the management of the company, is not really clear.

Similarly, it doesn't really matter in the negotiations between Fedor and Strikeforce. I understand the popularity of allusions to Vadim's ties with the Russian mafia, but I haven't seen good evidence that those ties exist. And not to blow my own horn, but I've been around the sport long enough to know that if there's good evidence floating around that Vadim is connected to the mafia, I'd have seen it by now.



Jimdon said:


> I don't doubt that M-1 protects Fedor fiercely, he's their only true meal ticket.
> 
> I also doubt that Fedor cares, seems like he cares more about his family and life at home then he ever did about fighting (not a knock on the guy, he's just got different priorities), he's in it for the paycheck to take care of his family, nothing he has ever said tells me he gives two $hits about being 'the best fighter in the world'.


I'm not sure this is true.

He's made a point of fighting the best, when his management gets him those fights. This is a guy who trains every day, in isolation, and who doesn't do major press appearances (even in the countries where he's a huge celebrity and speaks the language fluently).

I agree that his priorities are different than what we typically expect from a fighter, but I don't think it's fair to say that he doesn't care about being the best. It's clear that he does, he's just loyal to his management, and trusts them to get him the best possible deal. For better or for worse, that seems to be how Fedor's business is operating right now.


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## JamesDean (Mar 3, 2010)

*Fedor overrated and an idiot*

How long is this dumbass Russian going to pull this shit. M1 is a joke everytime this guy goes and tries to sign a contract with someone he thinks he is entitled to part of their company or something and he has tries to leverage them into feeding M1 which is garbage by the way.

Strikeforce does not need Fedor.

The UFC definitely does not need Fedor.

Fedor is overrated no doubt when you break down his record. The guy has fought Nog twice and not been able to stop him. We all saw what Cain Velasquez did to him in the very first round. 

The best three guys Fedor has ever fought are Nog, Lindland, and Arlovski. Come on that is really not saying a whole lot. How is this guy honestly ranked #1? There are too many Sharks in the heavyweight division right now in the UFC. Lesnar, Mir, Velasquez these guys could beat Fedor.

Fedor thinks he is so good and so famous he can have his own promotion and bully other promotions around into helping him. Fedor you are a joke, M1 is a joke, and most the U.S. could care less if they ever saw Fedor on a card.

**** Fedor Emelianenko over rated piece of shit would get chewed up in the UFC.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

*Obvious Troll is Obvious*



JamesDean said:


> How long is this dumbass Russian going to pull this shit. M1 is a joke everytime this guy goes and tries to sign a contract with someone he thinks he is entitled to part of their company or something and he has tries to leverage them into feeding M1 which is garbage by the way.
> 
> Strikeforce does not need Fedor.
> 
> ...












This was the stupidest post I've seen since the "Joyce Gracie" thread.

Congratulations.


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## Jimdon (Aug 27, 2008)

IronMan said:


> I'm not sure this is true.
> 
> He's made a point of fighting the best, when his management gets him those fights. This is a guy who trains every day, in isolation, and who doesn't do major press appearances (even in the countries where he's a huge celebrity and speaks the language fluently).
> 
> I agree that his priorities are different than what we typically expect from a fighter, but I don't think it's fair to say that he doesn't care about being the best. It's clear that he does, he's just loyal to his management, and trusts them to get him the best possible deal. For better or for worse, that seems to be how Fedor's business is operating right now.


I guess we'll just agree to disagree then, Fedor fought the best to build his reputation and his legacy, mission accomplished. But now he's got a wife and a young kid and not too surprisingly, his priorities seem to have changed.

He's never come off as a guy who cares a lot about the fight game (meaning he doesn't do interviews, doesn't make an effort to connect to his fans, doesn't seem to care about being a champion of any org. ect.) So he went into partnership with M-1 so they could take care of his best interests and he wouldn't have to do anything except train (which he genuinely seems to enjoy) and spend time raising his family.

He just doesn't seem to have that spark, or that willingness to prove he is the best, and thats not an insult, he's a very quiet and humble guy, two traits that are hard to come by these days, i honestly just see him collecting paychecks until he retires one day, if he does do any superfights, it will be because M-1 is making a shit-ton of money off it, not because he really cares who he is fighting.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Jimdon said:


> I guess we'll just agree to disagree then, Fedor fought the best to build his reputation and his legacy, mission accomplished. But now he's got a wife and a young kid and not too surprisingly, his priorities seem to have changed.


Fedor's older daughter is like 11. The guy has been a family man for his entire MMA career.

He recently got remarried and had another kid, but he's been a father for a long time. I don't know where you're getting "now he's got a wife and a young kid." He was married when he fought in Pride. He got divorced in 2006. He got remarried last year, but (again) being a family man is not something new to Fedor.



> He's never come off as a guy who cares a lot about the fight game (meaning he doesn't do interviews, doesn't make an effort to connect to his fans, doesn't seem to care about being a champion of any org. ect.)


I don't equate "making an effort to connect to fans" with caring a lot about the fight game.

Fedor doesn't connect to fans because he doesn't view himself as a celebrity or a personality. He doesn't deal with American media very much because his English is very poor and because (as I've said) he doesn't think of himself as a celebrity of a personality.

It's not as though I've had extended contact with Fedor (though I've probably had more than most, and have known some of his coaches for a long time), but I can tell you that not caring about being the champion of an organization and not being interactive with his fans doesn't have anything to do with wanting to be the best in the world.

This is actually a major disconnect between how western and eastern athletes think about what it means to be the best.

Since Ali (and arguably, since well before that), the western idea of what it means to be a champion includes having charisma. This has become a part of other sports and "sports entertainment." It only really got transmitted to Japan in the form of professional wrestling.

Frankly, athletes who talk too much are looked down on in ***** and Judo and even (perhaps especially) Sumo. The mark of a great competitor is directly related to humility and silence, and his ability to let his skills speak for themselves.



> So he went into partnership with M-1 so they could take care of his best interests and he wouldn't have to do anything except train (which he genuinely seems to enjoy) and spend time raising his family.


Actually, I pretty much agree with this.

But you have to keep in mind that M-1 has done a pretty great job of looking out for Fedor's best interest. He started working with them when he was a kid that nobody had ever heard of and now he's financially stable, a legend in his own country, widely considered the greatest fighter in the world and a national icon.

So his loyalty to M-1 seems pretty reasonable. They've done a pretty good job managing his career, insofar as they've been with him and gotten him huge fights throughout his career. The fact that his skills are phenomenal helps, but there has been some good work in terms of behind-the-scenes stuff.



> He just doesn't seem to have that spark, or that willingness to prove he is the best, and thats not an insult, he's a very quiet and humble guy, two traits that are hard to come by these days, i honestly just see him collecting paychecks until he retires one day, if he does do any superfights, it will be because M-1 is making a shit-ton of money off it, not because he really cares who he is fighting.


Yeah, again, talking about being the best (the way that someone like Lesnar or Sonnen or Hughes does) is not considered something good to Fedor.

Interestingly (and I had a short conversation with Fedor's "spiritual advisor" about this before the Arlovski fight), part of that is religious, but I tend to think a large part of it is social.

He doesn't talk about being the best because he doesn't think that talking has any value, and because talking is not seen as the duty of an athlete.

Alexander Karelin was the same way. He was the greatest in the world, and we all sort of knew it. He never needed to say anything. That's how Fedor wants to be.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

vaj3000 said:


> alizio said:
> 
> 
> > Lol thats just riddiculous, m1 may be a bunch of 'tards but i doubt the mobs involved. This aint 1960's boxing stop being so riddiculous.
> ...


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## JamesDean (Mar 3, 2010)

*Take Fedors nuts out of your mouth douchebag.*

..........


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## JamesDean (Mar 3, 2010)

You talk about Fedor like you know him personally which you do not. All you know is what has been translated in interviews. Take Fedors nuts out of your mouth because the stuff I said is not outlandish. If you weren't a biased jackass you could clearly see that his record is padded. It doesn't take a genius to look at the guys he has fought and the current heavyweights in the UFC. Can I say they would crush him for sure? No, I cannot but I can tell you he would find tougher fights there than he has anywhere else. IMHO he would lose some fights there and therefore prove that he is overrated. So don't go calling me a troll because you simply do not agree and don't go saying you KNOW Fedor would crush the current UFC heavyweights because you don't. Oh yeah, and stop beating off to pictures of Fedor.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

JamesDean said:


> You talk about Fedor like you know him personally which you do not. All you know is what has been translated in interviews.


Be careful with statements like this. They make you look really stupid.



> Take Fedors nuts out of your mouth because the stuff I said is not outlandish. If you weren't a biased jackass you could clearly see that his record is padded. It doesn't take a genius to look at the guys he has fought and the current heavyweights in the UFC.


I have to have this argument every couple of weeks, so I have lots of practice.

As to the statement that Fedor's record is padded, you're really going to compare Fedor's record to the three guys you mentioned: Lesnar, Mir and Velasquez.

I've already compared Lesnar and Fedor's record in another post, but your problem doesn't seem to be with looking at the "who gives a f*ck" fights on Fedor record.

Your problem seems to be that you don't actually know anything about Japanese MMA.

If you think that Nogueira was the same fighter Fedor fought when he stepped in the cage with Mir and Velasquez, then you seriously indicated that you weren't watching Pride at the time Fedor fought Nogueira.

Nogueira is slower now, but he also has a number of health issues (including, but not limited to) serious scar tissue build up in his eyes.

Oh, and if you think Lindland is even close to among Fedor's top wins, then you, again, have no idea what you're talking about.

I like Matt. He actually is one of those guys I have a personal friendship with. I was rooting for him. I was impressed that he got Fedor down. Especially with the idiotic rope holding. But Lindland was going to lose that fight, and we all knew it.

You know how we knew, because at that point in his career, Fedor had beaten six guys who were considered top ten heavyweights at the time Fedor fight them:

Mark Coleman, Kevin Randleman, Big Nog (twice), CroCop and Hunt were all considered top ten at the time that they lost to Fedor.

By the way, that's more wins over top ten heavyweights than Lesnar has in his entire career. Adding Sylvia, Arlovski and Rogers, who were all considered in the top ten at the time that they fought Fedor (Arlovski, like CroCop, was considered a serious dark horse in beating Fedor) and you have eight top ten wins.

Oh, and should I mention that's more than Mir (3), Lesnar (2) and Velasquez (1) *combined*.

There are a lot of guys on Fedor's record you haven't heard of. That's fine. There are a lot of guys on his record I haven't heard of. Most of his early RINGS opponents vanished in obscurity.

But the fact is, Lesnar got a title shot after beating Heath Herring. On his way to his shot at the Pride title shot, Fedor beat Semmy Schilt (now considered the greatest K-1 fighter of all time) and Herring. Oh, and then he took it from Nogueira in what was, at the time, considered a massive upset.

Fedor's record has some wins he probably shouldn't be proud of. Even recently, Lindland and Zuluzinho and TK (despite the value of the redemption win) there have been some guys, but that stand of wins starting with his third fight with Nogueira and ending with the recent win over Rogers is more impressive than the entire career of any of the guys that you mentioned.

So if you're going to say "he pads his record," you should at least find someone with a more impressive record than he has for comparison.



> Can I say they would crush him for sure? No, I cannot but I can tell you he would find tougher fights there than he has anywhere else. IMHO he would lose some fights there and therefore prove that he is overrated.


I agree that the toughest fights for Fedor are in the UFC. I'd rather see him fight Lesnar than Werdum. I'd rather see him fight Mir than Overeem.

And you're entitled to your opinion, despite not presenting any sort of rationale for it.



> So don't go calling me a troll because you simply do not agree and don't go saying you KNOW Fedor would crush the current UFC heavyweights because you don't. Oh yeah, and stop beating off to pictures of Fedor.


I called you a troll because your first post was a blatant attempt to instigate an argument. It made inflamatory claims (which is fine) without presenting any evidence (which is not). That's trolling.

Do I "know" Fedor would crush the UFC heavyweights? No. Of course not.

I do know that Lesnar and Mir and Velasquez don't deserve the #1 spot in the world at this point in their careers. Mir has losses to Lesnar, Vera and Pe De Pano that he hasn't entirely transcended yet. Lesnar has three UFC wins, only two of which were over serious competition. And Velasquez has beaten one top ten heavyweight.

So, I don't "know" the outcome of any fight. But do know the history, I know the records and I know what the limits of the athletes are. Knowing those makes for some good predictions.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Ah man! You took the words right out of my mouth!:thumb02:


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

seriously. why do ppl keep saying Cain hasnt beaten one top 10??

if fedor loses ONE FIGHT. is he outta the top 10??

as far as basing things are fighters records... i guess being undefeated means u will always be?? how do u know the limits of somebody like brock or cain with only 5 or 8 fights under their belts and looking better everytime and beating top guys??\


sounds like u know u love fedor and try to find ways to discredit anybody that looks like they have a chance vs him


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## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

If M1 is simply upset that Fedor isn't fighting overeem first then I can understand. There's no reason overeem should be the title holder anyway, so just give the title to the winner of Fedor/Werdum and be done with it. 

If Overeem wants the title back he needs to beat Rodgers and then the winner of Fedor/Werdum.

If the title isn't the issue then I don't see how I can understand M1's problem with SF.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

FrodoFraggins said:


> If M1 is simply upset that Fedor isn't fighting overeem first then I can understand. There's no reason overeem should be the title holder anyway, so just give the title to the winner of Fedor/Werdum and be done with it.
> 
> If Overeem wants the title back he needs to beat Rodgers and then the winner of Fedor/Werdum.
> 
> If the title isn't the issue then I don't see how I can understand M1's problem with SF.


I said this somewhere in another thread I think but it is going to look absolutely ridiculous if Overeem loses to Rogers and then puts the title up against Fedor.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

alizio said:


> seriously. why do ppl keep saying Cain hasnt beaten one top 10??


Nog was considered a top ten heavyweight going into the last fight. Albeit, he wasn't in the top three, the way he was when he fought Fedor (or Mir, for that matter), but I count it as a top ten win.




> if fedor loses ONE FIGHT. is he outta the top 10??


There's another thread on this question right now.

It really depends on who he loses to and how he loses.




> as far as basing things are fighters records... i guess being undefeated means u will always be?? how do u know the limits of somebody like brock or cain with only 5 or 8 fights under their belts and looking better everytime and beating top guys??


You don't learn the limits of a fighter just by looking at their record. As you point out, that means you end up with substandard data for most fighters. And since fighters grow and change over time, it's sometimes a bad idea to look at their record, as it clouds the view of who the fighter is now.

Brock and Cain have limitations that have been made pretty clear, based on their performance.

Brock is going to struggle with landing punches on someone who has truly evasive boxing, or someone who's comfortable throwing leg kicks off of the back foot. The way he steps in has made that pretty clear.

We also know what Brock is good at. He'll never loose top control, period. Anyone who stands and trades, who doesn't move in and out effectively, is going to get smashed.

Cain is a little more complicated, because most of Cain's fights are against substandard competition. It's not really clear how Cain is going to handle giving up a lot of muscle mass to someone like Brock or Carwin, who also has a great wrestling background. It's not clear how good Cain's submission defense is going to be if he takes down an opponent who's fully conscious and, say, has a BJJ blackbelt.

That said, I think some of Cain's limitations are clear. He's not going to finish people with one punch. He doesn't use his kicks effectively. He doesn't use his top game with the kind of economy that, say, Carwin does, because he doesn't pack the same power in a single strike.

Their limits aren't absolutely defined yet, and they definitely can go beyond what I'm talking about. Cain can definitely RHK someone if he works on it really hard. They're phenomenal athletes. This is just a look at where their game seems to be at now.



> sounds like u know u love fedor and try to find ways to discredit anybody that looks like they have a chance vs him


I think Fedor is the best heavyweight in the world, and I said so. I'm not trying to discredit Brock or Cain or Mir. They're good fighters. But they're not the best in the world.

I'd love to see any of those guys step in the cage with Fedor. Of course Brock has the chance to knock Fedor out, or try to control him from the top. Of course Mir has the opportunity to go for a crazy rubber guard submission or a leg lock on Fedor.

What can happen in a fight is not a means of assessing who deserves to be called the best in the world. And saying something as stupid as "The best three guys Fedor has beaten are Nog, Lindland and Arlovski" is indefensible.

Obviously, you didn't say that, alizio. Just like I didn't say, "Cain hasn't beaten a single top ten heavyweight." He has beaten a single top ten heavyweight. Which is why I said:



> And Velasquez has beaten one top ten heavyweight.


That's a good place for Velasquez to be right now.

Being compared to Fedor is not a good place for Velasquez to be.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

i tihnk half the problem is alot of fedor fans get offended when somebody says i want to see (insert HW name) vs Fedor.

Im not saying i think Cain has achieved more at this point or is the greatest ever. I just want to see him step in the octogan with Fedor. Thats it. Where it goes from there will not be decided by what we type. Cain has been doubted enough, im sure at one point Fedor was doubted, he cant possiblely beat Nog, can he?

Everybody has to prove themselves and no better way then fight the guy everybody says is the best. Nog gave Fedor that gift, it seems Fedor is relucent to give it to the truely worthy now, which is why im no fan.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

alizio said:


> i tihnk half the problem is alot of fedor fans get offended when somebody says i want to see (insert HW name) vs Fedor.


Absolutely.

I have no problem with people who want to speculate on matchups. I have a problem when people think that there's a similar level of credibility between Fedor and the fighter they're talking about. That doesn't mean it wouldn't make for a fun fight, or that I wouldn't pay $40 to watch it on PPV (or try and get in to see it live).



> Im not saying i think Cain has achieved more at this point or is the greatest ever. I just want to see him step in the octogan with Fedor. Thats it. Where it goes from there will not be decided by what we type. Cain has been doubted enough, im sure at one point Fedor was doubted, he cant possiblely beat Nog, can he?


Absolutely. Every fighter who makes the big stage has that doubt early in their career. Everyone has a point where they haven't beaten anybody.

Cain's done a good job at proving people wrong, and I'd like to see him continue beating good fighters.



> Everybody has to prove themselves and no better way then fight the guy everybody says is the best. Nog gave Fedor that gift, it seems Fedor is relucent to give it to the truely worthy now, which is why im no fan.


Again, I don't think that Fedor staying out of the UFC has anything to do with the guys that are in the UFC right now. It has to do with Fedor's trust (for better or for worse) of his management.

I've gone into this at length other places.

I think fighting Rogers was him giving a young up-and-comer the opportunity to prove he's the best. Would I like to see him do that with Brock and Cain and Carwin? Absolutely. Those guys are all great opponents for Fedor. They'd all make for fantastic matchups and help Fedor establish his legacy further if he wins. However, I don't think that Fedor's decision not to fight those guys has anything to do with who those guys are and everything to do with Vadim's issues with the UFC negotiations.


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## tlilly (Nov 13, 2009)

IronMan said:


> *I think fighting Rogers was him giving a young up-and-comer the opportunity to prove he's the best*. Would I like to see him do that with Brock and Cain and Carwin? Absolutely. Those guys are all great opponents for Fedor. They'd all make for fantastic matchups and help Fedor establish his legacy further if he wins. However, I don't think that Fedor's decision not to fight those guys has anything to do with who those guys are and everything to do with Vadim's issues with the UFC negotiations.


Although I agree with most of your points, I can't agree with the bolded part. I don't think it was necessarily him giving him a chance, but it was because he had no one credible or marketable to fight in sf. At the time, their other choices were big foot and werdum (someone that is remembered more for his flash ko by jds). 

I don't want to add to the "fedor doesn't care about being the best" argument, but let me say, his silence (or faith in his managers as you say) is really starting to alienate him from the hardcore fans.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

tlilly said:


> Although I agree with most of your points, I can't agree with the bolded part. I don't think it was necessarily him giving him a chance, but it was because he had no one credible or marketable to fight in sf. At the time, their other choices were big foot and werdum (someone that is remembered more for his flash ko by jds).


Yeah, I happen to think that the level of heavyweight competition in Strikeforce is pretty depressing, especially with Bigfoot losing to Werdum. They haven't done a good job putting good heavyweights together. They have some nice long term prospects (Lavar Johnson and Shane Del Rosario), but no one who makes for an interesting fight with Fedor.

Rogers was an interesting matchup, especially coming off of the destruction of Arlovski and given his clinch game. Overeem can be an interesting fight (though given his health, I doubt it), but after that, there's no one who really gives him anything.



> I don't want to add to the "fedor doesn't care about being the best" argument, but let me say, his silence (or faith in his managers as you say) is really starting to alienate him from the hardcore fans.


Yeah, I don't really disagree. The thing is, there's no one who offers a serious argument or that #1 position, so it doesn't really matter that we're annoyed.

The argument for Lesnar (who's clearly #2) is incredibly weak.

Until someone gets in a position to really establish a good argument for that #1 position, it's going to belong to Fedor. The frustration with him and his management is irrelevant.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Management*

Yeah Fedor's management is retarded, why didn't PRIDE have this problem?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Because Fedor wasn't with M-1 when he fought in Pride.


The latest from M-1



> "I think June, July is realistic (for Emelianenko's return). It's not 100 percent. Don't take this as a fight announcement, but I think during the summer. After the CBS show, we thought that the (Strikeforce) terms needed a little bit tweaking -- nothing major, just a little bit of tweaking. So, we had a round of negotiations with Strikeforce. Everything went positively. We're pretty much at the end. For us, it's really important that the M-1 Global brand is acknowledged on these co-promotion events. As much as the partners made a lot of effort to acknowledge the co-branding, the media basically picked up on the fact that it was Strikeforce and kind of forgot about everything else, which wasn't the most ideal for us."


http://www.mmamania.com/2010/3/9/1364182/m-1-director-fedor-emelianenko-and

Blah, It needed tweaking, bullshit your signed a damn contract how about you honor it.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

he is Fedor. he isnt bound by mere mortal contracts obviously.


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## Jimdon (Aug 27, 2008)

Strikeforce, and the UFC for that matter, would be better off if M-1 global took their Fedor and went home. Fedor could fight the same fights in Dream that he's going to fight here, and nobody has to deal with all the BS.

How is Strikeforce making any money here? Every time they put on a big show they have to split pot with Showtime and M-1(if Fedor's fighting).


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

People dont get russians

This is nothing official just rumors.

Russians are happy with good money they dont need whole bank.

The thing Russians dont like is getting f*cked when it concerns the money.

Fedor deserves every penny he earns, he is well known around the world, brings WHOLE world to watch his fights at any organization he fights, they dont need to promote people will come themselves.

It is plain stupid to say that bringin fedor, hendo etc in was a mistake.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Rusko said:


> People dont get russians
> 
> This is nothing official just rumors.
> 
> ...


 sorry but there are no numbers to prove Fedor brings in $... just cuz u and his russian buddies say its true and alot of russians will watch him on TV.... FOR FREE!!! doesnt mean he sells PPVs.... he doesnt, he never has and a couple companies have gone broke building around the idea that he does.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Cote vs Silva was seen as a bust PPV wise for the UFC, well its PPV numbers are still better than the last 3 PPV's Fedor headlined combined. Fedor is not a overly marketable fighter and where he is popular (Russia) M-1 has the rights to show the fights. Its Fedor is making a pile but M-1 and Fedor were happy they signed a contract and are now being greedy and wanting more.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

If strikeforce wouldnt earn anything off fedor they wouldnt sign him in the first place.The strikeforce president seems to be happy with fedor.

You sound like its a true statement, whil all of these are just speculations untill official info.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Rusko said:


> If strikeforce wouldnt earn anything off fedor they wouldnt sign him in the first place.The strikeforce president seems to be happy with fedor.
> 
> You sound like its a true statement, whil all of these are just speculations untill official info.


Afflcition lost money signing him so did Bodog. Thing is Strikeforce could make money off Fedor, the problem is they have to make money with M-1 AND Fedor. My comment on PPV buys was 100% accurate, reports for Cote/Silva had it at just over 300,000 PPV buys. (350-400,000 is average for UFC) The first Affliction PPV did about 150,000 the second had high side estimates of around 100,000 (some people reported it was much lower) and the BoDog PPV with Fedor/Lindland did less than 30,000.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Mistakes*

Bodog Fight and Affliction didn't know how to run or promote MMA promotions. Coker on the other hand has been doing this long before Strikeforce even ventured into MMA. He also copromoted with EliteXC, which obviously benefited Strikeforce in the long run alot more than it did EliteXC who as we all know went under!


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