# Sherdog's updated P4P List.



## LOJ (Mar 9, 2007)

> 1. Anderson Silva (26-4)
> Silva’s victory over Demian Maia at UFC 112 made some laugh. It made others foam at the mouth. It was yet another uninspiring performance from “The Spider,” though admittedly more bizarre than his five-round affair with Thales Leites in April 2009. However, it was nonetheless a lopsided victory over another standout middleweight that reinforced the gulf between Silva and his foes at 185 pounds. The next move for Silva remains uncertain. Options range from intended UFC 112 challenger Vitor Belfort and the suddenly compelling Chael Sonnen to 170-pound king Georges St. Pierre and another 205-pound super fight. Fans can rest easy knowing the next step for the pound-for-pound king will include an elite opponent.
> 
> 2. Georges St. Pierre (20-2)
> ...


Thoughts?


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

sherdog is a joke... 

There is no way BJ should drop THAT much. I also disagree with having Machida up so high, You cant have him that him since his last win was regarded as a loss with most people.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> *sherdog is a joke*...


:sign04:
This is their TOP 10 ?!?...that's worse than a joke. 
A joke makes u laugh. This is like 
I think he lost some of his "ubeatable-aura", but common.
I have him at No. 5, behind Silva, GSP, Aldo and Fedor.


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

I disagree^^^ MMA has a lot of dominant fighters in each weight class, and you need to have really good record to stay in the top 10 P4P. Theres so many fighters who could be in that list that soon as one gets beat another fighter comes in. If Machida gets beat next month, i think he will drop straight to the bottom end of this list and Shogun will jump straight in above him and thats the way it should be. Remember this is the best fighters from every division, not all can fit in it.


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## Harness (Oct 3, 2009)

Wait so Edgar is in the top 10 now?


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

BJ dropped that much from a debatable decision loss? :sarcastic12:


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Stopped reading as soon as I saw BJ not in the top 6-7. Sherdog is a ******* joke. Wow.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

That is a horrible f#cking list. 

Frankie Edgar, Mike Brown, Aoki......... really????????????


Was that list made by a total MMA noob that just started watching MMA this year???? Because it seems like it.


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

I think its real hard to keep a guy who just lost in the top 10 P4P guys and BJ at 9 or 10 sounds about right to me and am the biggest BJ fan on here. I think frankie is easily in with a shot at top 10 P4P also, he is 7-1 in the UFC and beat two former UFC champions including the best LW ever, not many fighters can say that atm and the ones who can are on that list.


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## Benge (Mar 8, 2008)

These seem to measure streaks against top competition and not actual talent/ability.


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

Benge said:


> These seem to measure streaks against top competition and not actual talent/ability.


yeah, thats how rankings should be measured. Jon Jones has tons of ability/talent same with Brock but just dont have the record to be ranked in the p4p list yet. All rankings should be about who beat who and how dominant they were.


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

wow i did not think sherdog could disappoint me anymore then i read this crap


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

How can you take that site serious with where they put Bj?


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## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

BJ lost to a smaller guy, why should he even be considered an elite P4P fighter after that? Seriously.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> *sherdog is a joke... *


This. Couldn't be more spot on.


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## sNatch204 (Oct 13, 2006)

LOL. Sherdog is terrible. Sherdog gave BJ Penn the fight, and they throw him down to #10 p4p. Come on.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

FrodoFraggins said:


> BJ lost to a smaller guy, why should he even be considered an elite P4P fighter after that? Seriously.


He should drop a bit, but one fight shouldn't destroy his rating like that when he has such a resume. His hit list > than all but Fedor, silva, and Gsp on that list.


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## drey2k (Jul 9, 2009)

Wow Fitch? You serious?

HORRID LIST


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

BJ doesn't deserve to drop down like that. No way!!!

He is at least in the top 5!

His fight, same as Machida/Shogun, could have gone either way actually.. so this decision, doesn't drop him off that far. 

Fedor should be behind Lyoto and BJ should get the number 4 spot before Fedor. He fights the best LW's in the world imo!

Edgar however deserves a place in the top 10. I would say number 9 or 8.


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## looney liam (Jun 22, 2007)

thats perfectably understandle. Penn lost to a natural 145 lber, plus he will have dropped to #3 ranked LW (behind edgar and aoki) it wouldn't make any sense to have him ranked below aoki and edgar at LW, but above them in P4P. 

also you have to factor in that there's 3 lightweights on the list, do the 3 best lightweights really hold enough ground to have 3 great rankings in the top 10 p4p?

i don't see any major problems with these rankings. all rankings are subjective to the makers opinions, and all those spots are justifiable. i'd personally rank aldo above machida as aldo just dominated mike brown whereas machida's last win was questionable to say the least. i'd also have edgar above brown, edgar is a natural 145bler and what he did against penn was nothing short of amazing.


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## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

*agreed*



looney liam said:


> thats perfectably understandle. Penn lost to a natural 145 lber, plus he will have dropped to #3 ranked LW (behind edgar and aoki) it wouldn't make any sense to have him ranked below aoki and edgar at LW, but above them in P4P.
> 
> also you have to factor in that there's 3 lightweights on the list, do the 3 best lightweights really hold enough ground to have 3 great rankings in the top 10 p4p?
> 
> i don't see any major problems with these rankings. all rankings are subjective to the makers opinions, and all those spots are justifiable. i'd personally rank aldo above machida as aldo just dominated mike brown whereas machida's last win was questionable to say the least. i'd also have edgar above brown, edgar is a natural 145bler and what he did against penn was nothing short of amazing.


this man speaks the truth


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Penn being that low shouldn't be the biggest criticism of that list.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

All the way to 10! wow, I mean I figured he'd drop out of the top 5, but all the way to ten, after he loses by decision. Come on Sherdog, I thought you were a little better than that.

Anderson Silva #1? Jon Fitch is #6? I love Jon, but he is not the sixth best fighter in the world and Shogun doesn't even make the top 10..........really Sherdog, Jose Aldo, Mike Brown and Frankie Edgar, are all better p4p than Shogun?


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Lol @ Aldo being ranked anywhere near the top 10. He fights at the weakest weight class in MMA and he's only beaten arguably 2 top 10s in that class, if that much. It's just like when Migeul Torres was always listed as top 3 P4P before he lost (twice) and everyone started to notice he's fought a bunch of nobodies.


BTW though I'm a huge Aldo fan.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Lol @ Aldo being ranked anywhere near the top 10. He fights at the weakest weight class in MMA and he's only beaten arguably 2 top 10s in that class, if that much. It's just like when Migeul Torres was always listed as top 3 P4P before he lost (twice) and everyone started to notice he's fought a bunch of nobodies.
> 
> 
> BTW though I'm a huge Aldo fan.


So true! The hype around Aldo is getting pretty ridiculous.. very similar to Torres when he destroyed everybody!
Yes he is top 10 right now, but still far from the top 5. Let him defend his belt against a top 5 FW at least.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Very silly list.

This is just yet another reason why Sherdog is a joke.


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

This looks more like a popularity list or a “what have you done for me lately” list than a P4P list.
But then consider the source.


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## munkie (Sep 28, 2009)

Shedog's a joke. BJ didn't drop that low from 1 bad performance. Silva, GSP, then Fedor and BJ are still pretty much interchangeable for 3. And..., how is Fitch on any top 10 p4p list? Sherdog's a joke. Does anybody over there actually watch MMA anymore?


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

Sort of off the subject but after reading BJ Penn's No. 10 ranking it seems Sherdog is making Frankie Edgar winning out to be one of the worst decision ever made. While everyone else is saying it could have gone either way that entire site seems hellbent that BJ won.


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## neoseeker (Jun 16, 2007)

Machida is a good fighter but he shouldn't be rated that high.


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> Lol @ Aldo being ranked anywhere near the top 10. He fights at the weakest weight class in MMA and he's only beaten arguably 2 top 10s in that class, if that much. It's just like when Migeul Torres was always listed as top 3 P4P before he lost (twice) and everyone started to notice he's fought a bunch of nobodies.
> 
> 
> BTW though I'm a huge Aldo fan.


What? hows does anyone even know that its the weakest division? just because theres not that many big names in that weight class doesnt make it weak and the reason there is no big names is because the division is not in the UFC.

Theoretically it could be classed as the strongest division considering that the average height of 145er is also the average height of all males, so statistically they have more of a chance to have the best fighters. But no one could ever know which division is stronger or weaker than others because they could never match up together.

the fact is Aldo has looked the most dominant fighter out of all the names on list in the last 2 years.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

DJ Syko said:


> What? hows does anyone even know that its the weakest division? just because theres not that many big names in that weight class doesnt make it weak and the reason there is no big names is because the division is not in the UFC.
> 
> Theoretically it could be classed as the strongest division considering that the average height of 145er is also the average height of all males, so statistically they have more of a chance to have the best fighters. But no one could ever know which division is stronger or weaker than others because they could never match up together.



Because Torres was invincible until a newcomer wrecked him. Then the newcomer was invincible until Aldo came and wrecked him. And there's lots of examples of that and why there's only one "superfight" in the history of the division - and it hasn't even happened yet.

But the best way to determine it is because it's NOT popular. More popularity = more appeal = more attraction = better athletes, period.


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> Because Torres was invincible until a newcomer wrecked him. Then the newcomer was invincible until Aldo came and wrecked him. And there's lots of examples of that and why there's only one "superfight" in the history of the division - and it hasn't even happened yet.
> 
> But the best way to determine it is because it's NOT popular. More popularity = more appeal = more attraction = better athletes, period.


How exactly? so just because the LHW division is the most popular, your saying that all the best athletes go to that division? so you cant be the best fighter if your not in the most popular division? i dont agree with that at all, although i know thats how most people will judge it.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

Ok, that list is the biggest bs ever just because BJ lost a razor close decison he drops from 5 to 10 wtf is that.


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## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> Because Torres was invincible until a newcomer wrecked him. Then the newcomer was invincible until Aldo came and wrecked him.


Except Torres is BW and Aldo is FW, also sytles make fights.

Aldo has trashed everyone who has been put in front of him, including the former champion and division's head.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

DragonStriker said:


> Ok, that list is the biggest bs ever just because BJ lost a razor close decison he drops from 5 to 10 wtf is that.


Bullshit is what it is. 

Lyoto won a fight that just about everybody but Machida fans think he lost and he is #4?????

Frankie Edgar??? Aoki????? Mike Thomas Brown????

GTFOutta here with that crap Sherdog------------>


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

P4P rankings can only ever be based on opinions, no one is right and no one is wrong, There is always going to be lots of people thats going to disagree. There is just so many variables to take into account when to P4P lists, like how many top fighters they beat, how dominant they've been, whens the last time they lost, who did they lose to, what divisions they have fought at etc etc. Dont understand why everyone is going crazy over it. 

BJ is the only fighter on that list that has lost 2 of his last 4 fights and i think am the biggest BJ fan on this site and even i can see why he isnt top 5 p4p now.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

I created a thread questioning if Edgar deserves a place on this list because of a win over Penn. I said no, as did most people unless the win was a complete domination (which it wasn't). 

It is crap imo, not taking anything away from edgar.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

P4P is not a measure of who is on the best streak or has the best wins lately. It's a measure of who's skills are the best if weight was not a factor. So in other words this list is something I can add to my reasons that shitdog is a joke.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> P4P is not a measure of who is on the best streak or has the best wins lately. It's a measure of who's skills are the best if weight was not a factor. So in other words this list is something I can add to my reasons that shitdog is a joke.


I agree with and approve of the above post. 

People and websites really need to list the criteria they use to make rankings like this.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I am a the furthest thing from a BJ Penn fan but I am quite surprised that he has dropped that far down on this list.


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## 6toes (Sep 9, 2007)

I was pretty surprised to see BJ dropped that much but I believe this list was meant to be a "what have you done lately" gauge of the top ten. Kinda hard to keep Fedor so high with that logic but considering he hasn't had any losses in who knows how long he still has serious staying power.

I would certainly rank BJ above Jon Fitch and maybe Aoki but its kind of hard not to put Edgar above him considering BJ just dropped a UD (albeit a debatable one) to the man. Personally I think Frankie won that fight but if I were to make a guess as to who the better p4p fighter was I would say BJ for sure, but if we just rank fighters based on how good we believe they are rather than via recent wins and losses the p4p list will become very static and figurative.

In other words, while BJ is probably top 5 material, he's going to have to get another big win and get that title back and he will have worked his way back in there.


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

Go sherdog! - BJ not top 5?

And I've been seeing Mike Brown on these lists for a while now ... I don't think he deserves to be on there at all, maybe #10 if that.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Indestructibl3 said:


> Go sherdog! - BJ not top 5?
> 
> And I've been seeing Mike Brown on these lists for a while now ... I don't think he deserves to be on there at all, maybe #10 if that.


Hey now he managed to survive 5 rounds with Faber and his inability to grapple properly or throw punches because he injured both of his hands.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> Lol @ Aldo being ranked anywhere near the top 10. He fights at the weakest weight class in MMA and he's only beaten arguably 2 top 10s in that class, if that much. It's just like when Migeul Torres was always listed as top 3 P4P before he lost (twice) and everyone started to notice he's fought a bunch of nobodies.


I remember saying Torres had no business being in the top 10 due to lack of quality opponents back when he was #4 or something. I say the same thing about Aldo, beating Mike Brown (who has no business being top 20 p4p imo) and Cub Swanson shouldn't be top 10 worthy letalone top5.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Because Torres was invincible until a newcomer wrecked him. Then the newcomer was invincible until Aldo came and wrecked him.


You're talking nonsense.
Torres was beaten by Bowles, if that is your "newcomer".
Then the newcomer lost to Aldo??! What??! I don't get it?
Bowles and Torres are bantamweights. 
Aldo is a featherweight. And Aldo beat Brown. Who's the newcomer that got beaten by Aldo??
You are not making any sense.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

limba said:


> You're talking nonsense.
> Torres was beaten by Bowles, if that is your "newcomer".
> Then the newcomer lost to Aldo??! What??! I don't get it?
> Bowles and Torres are bantamweights.
> ...


I think he's confusing Torres with Faber. 

Faber was considered invincible until he was wrecked by the newcomer Brown. Then the newcomer Brown was invincible until Aldo came and wrecked him. And now everyone is on Aldo's nuts thinking he's invincible.

Torres-Bowles at BW are a similar situation to Faber-Brown-Aldo at FW, just with 2 players instead of 3 so far, so I can see how he'd get confused. All them little guys look the same


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> I think he's confusing Torres with Faber.
> 
> Faber was considered invincible until he was wrecked by the newcomer Brown. Then the newcomer Brown was invincible until Aldo came and wrecked him. And now everyone is on Aldo's nuts thinking he's invincible.
> 
> Torres-Bowles at BW are a similar situation to Faber-Brown-Aldo at FW, just with 2 players instead of 3 so far, so I can see how he'd get confused. *All them little guys look the same *


:laugh: Kinda...
But Aldo is beating them like his life depends on it


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## suffersystem (Feb 4, 2007)

While I do understand BJ's talent and skills as a fighter, it's hard to call him in the top five, when *he's lost 5 of his last 11 fights*. That doesn't sound like a p4p best fighter in the world, no offence anybody. I'm not meaning to rag on him, but it is true. I still think he can dominate over 90% of the people he gets into the ring with, but it's his own fault as well, as you never know which BJ you're going to get on any given fight night. So for that I can understand him not being as high up on that list.


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## NotDylan (Jul 13, 2009)

suffersystem said:


> While I do understand BJ's talent and skills as a fighter, it's hard to call him in the top five, when *he's lost 5 of his last 11 fights*.


To be fair, one of those losses was to Lyoto Machida, one was to Matt Hughes in his prime and at WW, and 2 of them were to the #2 ranked p4p fighter, GSP (also at WW).


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

VolcomX311 said:


> BJ dropped that much from a debatable decision loss? :sarcastic12:


debatable? rofl


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

box said:


> He should drop a bit, but one fight shouldn't destroy his rating like that when he has such a resume. His hit list > than all but Fedor, silva, and Gsp on that list.


this is a pound for pound list?! what dont you guys understand? you have to win to stay on top... if you dont win, and lose to a smaller opponent than yea, you should drop straight off the p4p list. simple as that.

P4P is alot different than weight class ranks.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> P4P is not a measure of who is on the best streak or has the best wins lately. It's a measure of who's skills are the best if weight was not a factor. So in other words this list is something I can add to my reasons that shitdog is a joke.


QFT
/5char


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

chilo said:


> this is a pound for pound list?! what dont you guys understand? you have to win to stay on top... if you dont win, and lose to a smaller opponent than yea, you should drop straight off the p4p list. simple as that.
> 
> P4P is alot different than weight class ranks.


exactly, P4P lists are for the most dominant fighters from every weight class, theres no way you can be ranked top 5 P4P when you just lost your last fight unless you lose to another top P4P fighter from another weight class.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

DJ Syko said:


> exactly, P4P lists are for the most dominant fighters from every weight class, theres no way you can be ranked top 5 P4P when you just lost your last fight unless you lose to another top P4P fighter from another weight class.


But even after BJ losing to Edgar, I still think that BJ should be higher on the list than Edgar, because of his resumé alone.
One off night shouldn't change the rankings as much as Sherdog did.


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

suniis said:


> But even after BJ losing to Edgar, I still think that BJ should be higher on the list than Edgar, because of his resumé alone.
> One off night shouldn't change the rankings as much as Sherdog did.


i can agree with that but i still think both should be at the latter end of the top 10 P4P.


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

you're only as good as your last fight...


unfortunately for BJ he lost to someone not ranked top 10. this isn't a Greatest of all time list. this is a current day ranking of the active fighters as of right now (in the opinion of 1 publication)

looking career wise and fighting resume, BJ's is the most impressive. unfortunately this list isn't made up off that (to an extent)


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## 6toes (Sep 9, 2007)

suniis said:


> But even after BJ losing to Edgar, I still think that BJ should be higher on the list than Edgar, because of his resumé alone.
> One off night shouldn't change the rankings as much as Sherdog did.


I disagree, you can't logically rank someone higher on the p4p list than the person who just defeated them :dunno:. And considering that a W over BJ Penn is now on Edgar's resume I would say his resume is pretty impressive as well :thumb02:.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

6toes said:


> I disagree, you can't logically rank someone higher on the p4p list than the person who just defeated them :dunno:. And considering that a W over BJ Penn is now on Edgar's resume I would say his resume is pretty impressive as well :thumb02:.


I completely disagree!!
Think about Serra defeating GSP...1 win on 1 night doesn't give you a P4P status...

Also, although Edgar can add a W over BJ on his resumé...their resumés shouldn't even be compared IMO...


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## 6toes (Sep 9, 2007)

suniis said:


> I completely disagree!!
> Think about Serra defeating GSP...1 win on 1 night doesn't give you a P4P status...
> 
> Also, although Edgar can add a W over BJ on his resumé...their resumés shouldn't even be compared IMO...


That is true, but I put a little more weight into a five round decision than an unexpected tko in the first. But with that being said, while I think GSP is easily top 3 p4p in the world, after he lost to Serra I don't think he deserved to be on the list, nor did Serra. Think about it this way, when Matt Serra was the champion at WW he was the #1 ranked WW in the world. You can't logically rank someone higher on the p4p list than someone who is ranked higher than them in their own natural weight class.

And think about it, GSP came back and demolished the man that took his belt along with a slew of other top competitors, thereby earning his spot back in the top 3. Something BJ's going to have to do to some extent if he wants to work his way above Edgar and into the top 5.

I completely see your point though, I just think we're looking at this a little differently.

Edit: When I say Serra was ranked #1 in the world, I mean #1 in the UFC. Not even a win over GSP could make Matt Serra the best WW in the world :thumb02:


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

6toes said:


> Something BJ's going to have to do to some extent if he wants to work his way above Edgar and into the top 5.
> 
> I completely see your point though, I just think we're looking at this a little differently.
> 
> Edit: When I say Serra was ranked #1 in the world, I mean #1 in the UFC. Not even a win over GSP could make Matt Serra the best WW in the world :thumb02:


I agree with the 3 sentences I quoted


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

wow, a sherdog ranking thread. hey heres a secret, i go on mma forum to *avoid* having headaches induced by the morons on sherdog. this list is dumb and puts edgar up ther pound for pound after just winning a title? im a huge fan of jerseys own Frankie "The Answer" Edgar, but that is ludacris considering he has yet to defend the title once. lol at shinya aoki up there and only one lhw on the entire list, nice one guys.


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## 6toes (Sep 9, 2007)

Thelegend said:


> wow, a sherdog ranking thread. hey heres a secret, i go on mma forum to *avoid* having headaches induced by the morons on sherdog. this list is dumb and puts edgar up ther pound for pound after just winning a title? im a huge fan of jerseys own Frankie "The Answer" Edgar, but that is ludacris considering he has yet to defend the title once. lol at shinya aoki up there and only one lhw on the entire list, nice one guys.


Its admittedly a pretty bizarre list. Its hard to come to a general consensus on the top ten p4p fighters. Its also a very subjective and theoretical list in itself so there can never be a wholly realistic top ten. Personally, f I had to rate this list I would give it a 6/10 or a 7/10.

I like seeing Aoki climbing the ranks but I don't think he really deserves his spot yet. I don't really see how Frankie beating BJ puts Aoki above both Frankie and BJ Penn. I understand the logic that they're following but until Aoki fights either man its hard to say that he's better, especially considering the difference in opposition in Japan compared to the UFC (take you're own meaning from that.) A win against Melendez will certainly do a lot more to move him up the rankings in my eyes.

Kinda baffled by Jon Fitch being so high up there. Guess I can't really argue with it, he's a great fighter and is undefeated aside from a decision loss (albeit a lopsided one) to the #2 ranked GSP. I dunno, I just wouldn't have him on my list, let alone up that high :dunno:.


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