# Before Sonnen gets Silva he should fight Paul Harris....



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Discuss.....


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

I dont think Palhares is even in the title mix at the minute.. he's only on a one or 2 fight W streak isnt he?

I think It's more likely that Stann would fight Palhares next, not Sonnen.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

nope, sonnen-silva 2 thats it winner of that fight decides the rest of the mw divs history


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

I don't think that should happen. Sonnen is ranked way higher than Palhares at the moment. Palhares last win was against Dan Miller, who isn't even in the top 10. Palhares needs to win at least once more to earn a title contender bout against Sonnen.

Also, business wise, there is no way this will happen. Sonnen has promoted the rematch for ages, and UFC would be foolish to risk losing that rematch. Palhares isn't really a big name yet, and he last fought in the prelims. Sonnen-Silva II would rake in big money and Dana knows it.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

I don't care if Harris isn't "in the mix".

Sonnen loses to Harris 9/10. C'mon Dana, book the fight.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> I don't care if Harris isn't "in the mix".
> 
> Sonnen loses to Harris 9/10. C'mon Dana, book the fight.


I totatlly agree that RP is a terrible match up for Sonnen. He ranks right up there with Maia as far as being a death trap for ole Chael, but I think Sonnen/Silva 2 is a forgone conclusion at this point.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

joshua7789 said:


> I totatlly agree that RP is a terrible match up for Sonnen. He ranks right up there with Maia as far as being a death trap for ole Chael, but I think Sonnen/Silva 2 is a forgone conclusion at this point.


I know, but if there was any justice in this world, the UFC would force Sonnen to fight PH.

It would honestly make my year if Dana some how booked this fight.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> I know, but if there was any justice in this world, the UFC would force Sonnen to fight PH.
> 
> It would honestly make my year if Dana some how booked this fight.



Yeah, it's not gonna happen though :thumbsup:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Killstarz said:


> Yeah, it's not gonna happen though :thumbsup:


There's always hope.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

sounds like people are clutching at imaginary straws for sonnen to lose


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

I think that A.Silva is the most remarkable martial artist to ever step foot in a ring or a cage, but Sonnen is incredibly entertaining. One of the reasons that this rematch is so interesting is because you have the most incredible guys to ever fight in the octagon fighting the guy that has proven to be one of the most entertaining personalities outside of the cage in the history of mma. If Silva had Sonnens personality, he would have become a bigger star then the iceman and GSP combined.


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## TheReturn (Sep 26, 2010)

joshua7789 said:


> I totatlly agree that RP is a terrible match up for Sonnen. He ranks right up there with Maia as far as being a death trap for ole Chael, but I think Sonnen/Silva 2 is a forgone conclusion at this point.


That's exactly why Dana wouldn't do it he wouldn't want Sonnen to lose before a HUGE rematch with Silva, and Sonnen probably wouldn't take it, as he shouldnt.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> sounds like people are clutching at imaginary straws for sonnen to lose


There isn't any thing imaginary going on here. 

In actual reality, Sonnen loses to PH and Maia 9/10

Chael Sonnen will never become a UFC champion any ways. His entire life he has always fell short of earning first place. It's a prime example of karma. He's a cheater, a compulsive liar and has committed acts of fraud outside of MMA. Karma being karma he will NEVER become a UFC champion and will get what's coming to him soon enough. This fame, hype and attention is all coming to an end very soon, so enjoy it whilst it lasts Sonnen fans.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> There isn't any thing imaginary going on here.
> 
> In actual reality, Sonnen loses to PH and Maia 9/10
> 
> Chael Sonnen will never become a UFC champion any ways. His entire life he has always fell short of earning first place. It's a prime example of karma. He's a cheater, a compulsive liar and has committed acts of fraud outside of MMA. Karma being karma he will NEVER become a UFC champion and will get what's coming to him soon enough.


na sprawl and brawl to a win, stann is more powerful than those 2 and maia wont get another judo throw on sonnen.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

It would be awsome. Hopefully Paul harris doesn't have anymore brainfarts and keeps winning, then they won't be able to deny him the matchup forever.

Sonnen will for sure fight Silva again tho even if he doesn't deserve it yet. He talks crap and thats what alot of people like so he will get the shot.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Lol how exactly is palharris supposed to beat Chael?? Its very unlikely he will get a triangle with those short legs and its very unlikely he will get a leg lock. If Chael wants to keep it standing he can then definitely do that. I see no reason anyone should think PH takes this fight unless its by a 1 out of a 1000 leg lock. 

Maia wont surprise Chael like he did the first time so i certainly dont see him winning again either.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Lol how exactly is palharris supposed to beat Chael?? Its very unlikely he will get a triangle with those short legs and its very unlikely he will get a leg lock. If Chael wants to keep it standing he can then definitely do that. I see no reason anyone should think PH takes this fight unless its by a 1 out of a 1000 leg lock.
> 
> Maia wont surprise Chael like he did the first time so i certainly dont see him winning again either.


All I have to say is watch filho-sonnen 2 , thats what will happen to these bjj guys


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Lol how exactly is palharris supposed to beat Chael?? Its very unlikely he will get a triangle with those short legs and its very unlikely he will get a leg lock. If Chael wants to keep it standing he can then definitely do that. I see no reason anyone should think PH takes this fight unless its by a 1 out of a 1000 leg lock.
> 
> Maia wont surprise Chael like he did the first time so i certainly dont see him winning again either.


How is it very unlikely PH secures a leg lock? If the fight hits the ground for more than 20 seconds, there's a high probability Harris rips a limb off.

Because Sonnen submits Stann, are we supposed to just assume that he has fixed the MASSIVE holes in his submission defense now?

Both Maia and PH would make him tap with ease on the ground.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> All I have to say is watch filho-sonnen 2 , thats what will happen to these bjj guys












You mean that version of Filho who was seeing ghosts and demons in the cage with him and didn't know what day of the week it was.

That version of Paulo Filho who Chael embarrassingly failed to finish over a span of three rounds.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> You mean that version of Filho who was seeing ghosts and demons in the cage with him and didn't know what day of the week it was.
> 
> That version of Paulo Filho who Chael embarrassingly failed to finish over a span of three rounds.


yep the same, it doesnt matter how fiho was it showed that sonnen learned from the first fight and and sprawled and brawled and dominated. the same thing would happen to maia and harris, and silva is gonna lose on superbowl weekend I believe which will probably cause most of mmaforum members to quit.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> yep the same, *it doesnt matter how fiho was *it showed that sonnen learned from the first fight and and sprawled and brawled and dominated. the same thing would happen to maia and harris, and silva is gonna lose on superbowl weekend I believe which will probably cause most of mmaforum members to quit.


Erm, yes, that's exactly what matters. Paulo Filho had no god damn place even stepping foot into the cage that night.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Erm, yes, that's exactly what matters. Paulo Filho had no god damn place even stepping foot into the cage that night.


the result was always gonna be the same, not chaels fault that filho missed weight costing chael the title and he came in bat shite crazy. if you watched the first fight too chael was dominating that too, and he didnt tap in that one I still maintain(im aware that he grunted and groaned loudly in pain)


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

UFC_OWNS;1485239[B said:


> ]the result was always gonna be the same[/B], not chaels fault that filho missed weight costing chael the title and he came in bat shite crazy. if you watched the first fight too chael was dominating that too, and he didnt tap in that one I still maintain(im aware that he grunted and groaned loudly in pain)


The result most likely wouldn't have been the same if Filho wasn't tripping out of his mind that night.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> The result most likely wouldn't have been the same if Filho wasn't tripping out of his mind that night.


well differing opinions, point is I don't think maia would win again and palhares wouldn't either, to make a long point short.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> well differing opinions, point is I don't think maia would win again and palhares wouldn't either, to make a long point short.


Any time Sonnen faces an elite BJJ player, the end result will always be the same:


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> How is it very unlikely PH secures a leg lock? If the fight hits the ground for more than 20 seconds, there's a high probability Harris rips a limb off.
> 
> Because Sonnen submits Stann, are we supposed to just assume that he has fixed the MASSIVE holes in his submission defense now?
> 
> Both Maia and PH would make him tap with ease on the ground.


Rip a limb off?? Cmon... dont be so easy to buy in to the hype. He wont beat Chael and i want this fight to happen just to shut up the nay sayers.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> the result was always gonna be the same, not chaels fault that filho missed weight costing chael the title and he came in bat shite crazy. if you watched the first fight too chael was dominating that too, and he didnt tap in that one I still maintain(im aware that he grunted and groaned loudly in pain)


Normally you are a solid poster, but saying Chael didnt tap in that fight is just silly. Anyone who saw that fight or even just the replays of the end can see that Chael clearly tapped. Even the most devoted Chael fans cant be delusional enough to belive that nonsense. He tapped and if he hadnt of tapped, he was going to sleep in a matter of moments.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Rip a limb off?? Cmon... dont be so easy to buy in to the hype. He wont beat Chael and i want this fight to happen just to shut up the nay sayers.


See gif two posts above.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

joshua7789 said:


> Normally you are a solid poster, but saying Chael didnt tap in that fight is just silly. Anyone who saw that fight or even just the replays of the end can see that Chael clearly tapped. Even the most devoted Chael fans cant be delusional enough to belive that nonsense. He tapped and if he hadnt of tapped, he was going to sleep in a matter of moments.


What? he was in an armbar dude when he fought filho remember


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> What? he was in an armbar dude when he fought filho remember


Your right, a little drunk, had the bablu fight in my mind.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> See gif two posts above.


I could post a gif of Nate knocking Palhares out but i decided it isnt worth my time to look it up. I know you are incredibly wrong and thats enough right now. If the fight ever happens then il happily rub it in your face until then stay ignorant my friend.... stay ignorant.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> I could post a gif of Nate knocking Palhares out but i decided it isnt worth my time to look it up. I know you are incredibly wrong and thats enough right now. If the fight ever happens then il happily rub it in your face until then stay ignorant my friend.... stay ignorant.


Nate didn't ever knock Palhares out. 

I'm clearly not incredibly wrong. I'm willing to bet that every time Chael faces an elite BJJ fighter he will lose. This isn't a baseless claim, there are plenty of fights in the past which support it.

The only one being ignorant here is you. So far Chael has shown a major tendency to lose to top BJJ fighters, that's just a fact. I think it's ignorant to believe that he's some how magically fixed his submission defense because he submitted Brian Stann. There has been zero evidence to state that he's mended his sub defense and I think Harris would be a fantastic test for that.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Nate didn't ever knock Palhares out.
> 
> I'm clearly not incredibly wrong. I'm willing to bet that every time Chael faces an elite BJJ fighter he will lose. This isn't a baseless claim, there are plenty of fights in the past which support it.
> 
> The only one being ignorant here is you. So far Chael has shown a major tendency to lose to top BJJ fighters, that's just a fact. I think it's ignorant to believe that he's some how magically fixed his submission defense because he submitted Brian Stann. There has been zero evidence to state that he's mended his sub defense and I think Harris would be a fantastic test for that.


Well only way we will find out is silva-sonnen II, when sonnen does the exact same thing as last time but he may do more guard passes and get better position?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> Nate didn't ever knock Palhares out.
> 
> I'm clearly not incredibly wrong. I'm willing to bet that every time Chael faces an elite BJJ fighter he will lose. This isn't a baseless claim, there are plenty of fights in the past which support it.
> 
> The only one being ignorant here is you. So far Chael has shown a major tendency to lose to top BJJ fighters, that's just a fact. I think it's ignorant to believe that he's some how magically fixed his submission defense because he submitted Brian Stann. There has been zero evidence to state that he's mended his sub defense and I think Harris would be a fantastic test for that.



Okay buddy. Sure w/e you want to think is fine with me. I know Palhares wont luck out and get a 1 out of a 1000 leg lock. He will be too busy on his back getting punched in the face.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Okay buddy. Sure w/e you want to think is fine with me. I know Palhares wont luck out and get a 1 out of a 1000 leg lock. He will be too busy on his back getting punched in the face.


Sounds like you two need to get a sig-bet on the go if this ever happens


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Killstarz said:


> Sounds like you two need to get a sig-bet on the go if this ever happens


Il up it and make a loser leaves town match. :thumb02:

If i win he leaves the UFC section forever and if he wins i leave the website forever. But he is a coward so i doubt he will accept.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Okay buddy. Sure w/e you want to think is fine with me. I know Palhares wont luck out and get a 1 out of a 1000 leg lock. He will be too busy on his back getting punched in the face.


And I'm being the ignorant one....

How would it be a 1/1000 chance of PH securing a leg lock? Chael Sonnen has shown a huge tendency to get submitted when facing top BJJ fighters so why would it be lucky for Palhares to lock up a sub? PH has 13 wins, 9 via submission and Chael has shown major weaknesses in his sub defense.

Both facts.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Well only way we will find out is silva-sonnen II, when sonnen does the exact same thing as last time but he may do more guard passes and get better position?


I dont think Sonnen/Stann was a good indicator of some massive improvement by Sonnen. Silva is a legit bjj blackbelt and his tdd is quite a bit better then Stanns. Compared to Silva, Stann is a complete noob when it comes to any area of mma. People seem to think that because Chael dominated Stann he has made some real strides in his ground game, I dont think that fight really showed us anything we didnt already know. Sonnen is a great wrestler and Stanns ground game is very underdeveloped. Im not saying that Sonnen wont be able to find success on the ground with Silva again, im just saying that Sonnens fight with Stann shouldnt have had any real effect on how people rank Chaels skills as a fighter.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Il up it and make a loser leaves town match. :thumb02:
> 
> If i win he leaves the UFC section forever and if he wins i leave the website forever. But he is a coward so i doubt he will accept.


hahaha, I genuinely laughed at that.

Somebody Rep sideways for me :thumb02:


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> Any time Sonnen faces an elite BJJ player, the end result will always be the same:


God bless Renato 'Babalu' Sobral.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> And I'm being the ignorant one....
> 
> How would it be a 1/1000 chance of PH securing a leg lock? Chael Sonnen has shown a huge tendency to get submitted when facing top BJJ fighters so why would it be lucky for Palhares to lock up a sub? PH has 13 wins, 9 via submission and Chael has shown major weaknesses in his sub defense.
> 
> Both facts.


Chael has drastically improved each and every fight. It also took Anderson Silva nearly a full 5 rounds to land a triangle on Chael. Thats a very LONG LIMBED Anderson Silva. There is absolutely no reason to think that Palhares will be able to do it in 3 especially since he is unlikely to land a triangle which is the most likely sub to be landed against Chael since he liked spending his time in full guard. So Palhares is not likely to submit Chael in 3 rounds when Chael is most likely alot better then he was even against Anderson. It just wont happen...


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

joshua7789 said:


> I dont think Sonnen/Stann was a good indicator of some massive improvement by Sonnen. Silva is a legit bjj blackbelt and his tdd is quite a bit better then Stanns. Compared to Silva, Stann is a complete noob when it comes to any area of mma. People seem to think that because Chael dominated Stann he has made some real strides in his ground game, I dont think that fight really showed us anything we didnt already know. Sonnen is a great wrestler and Stanns ground game is very underdeveloped. Im not saying that Sonnen wont be able to find success on the ground with Silva again, im just saying that Sonnens fight with Stann shouldnt have had any real effect on how people rank Chaels skills as a fighter.


Agreed which is why I am eagerly waiting for this match, if he gets through 5 rounds with silva grappling we'll obviously know the answer, maybe training with cesar gracie camp has helped him a bit, maybe he'll train there again with dan henderson too who said he'll help, I wish the superbowl weekend was next week now, I've waited too long for this.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Il up it and make a loser leaves town match. :thumb02:
> 
> If i win he leaves the UFC section forever and if he wins i leave the website forever. But he is a coward so i doubt he will accept.



Forget Palhares vs Sonnen.

Anderson Silva vs Chael Sonnen. Silva wins, you GTFO of here and never return. Chael wins, I'll leave.

Let's see who the coward is.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> Forget Palhares vs Sonnen.
> 
> Anderson Silva vs Chael Sonnen. Silva wins, you GTFO of here and never return. Chael wins, I'll leave.
> 
> Let's see who the coward is.


Il take that bet right now.


A MOD SAVE THIS POST AND BAN THE LOSER OF THIS BET.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Il take that bet right now.
> 
> 
> A MOD SAVE THIS POST AND BAN THE LOSER OF THIS BET.


Good girl.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> Good girl.


Your still a coward though. Wernt confident enough to back your boy Palhares??? its ok... i didnt expect a coward to accept that bet. But you can bet your ass il never back down from a challenge.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

SHIT JUST GOT REAL...


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Killstarz said:


> SHIT JUST GOT REAL...




*Most douchey reply i could think of*


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Your still a coward though. Wernt confident enough to back your boy Palhares??? its ok... i didnt expect a coward to accept that bet. But you can bet your ass il never back down from a challenge.


What? The palhares fight probably isn't going to happen that's why I said Silva because that's likely to be Sonnens next fight.

If Palhares vs Sonnen is actually booked, then we change the bet to that fight. Simple.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Go to bed children, bunch of internet cowboys pretending to be cool...

That said I can't wait till Silva ends this Sonnen hype for good.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Killstarz said:


> SHIT JUST GOT REAL...


.....


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## TheReturn (Sep 26, 2010)

Killstarz said:


> SHIT JUST GOT REAL...


Definately a good gif reply:thumb02:


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

Remember, PH lost a decision to Henderson because Henderson gave a cowardly 'must win' performance that PH couldn't handle. I think Chael could do the same thing if he wanted to without much effort.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

.....


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

I feel really uncomfortable here......


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Oh it would be a beautiful thing to watch, Paul Harris breaking Chael's leg in several pieces, 
unfortunately it's too good to be truth, it will not happen for the near future.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

Fieos said:


> Remember, PH lost a decision to Henderson because Henderson gave a cowardly 'must win' performance that PH couldn't handle. I think Chael could do the same thing if he wanted to without much effort.


Well Hendo has much better sub-defence than Sonnen as well so I wouldn't say it's comparable.

I think both Maia and Harris would beat Chael.
Sonnen would want to keep it standing and Maia would most likely outstrike him (I'd say 60/40% chance). Against Paul Harris I could see him diving for leglocks from standing so he wouldn't actually have to take Sonnen down the classic way. However Harris is known to mess stuff up so I'm not 100% confident in him.
If Sonnen was to take Harris down, he would probably get armbared from guard within seconds.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

mmaswe82 said:


> Well Hendo has much better sub-defence than Sonnen as well so I wouldn't say it's comparable.
> 
> I think both Maia and Harris would beat Chael.
> Sonnen would want to keep it standing and Maia would most likely outstrike him (I'd say 60/40% chance). Against Paul Harris I could see him diving for leglocks from standing so he wouldn't actually have to take Sonnen down the classic way. However Harris is known to mess stuff up so I'm not 100% confident in him.
> If Sonnen was to take Harris down, he would probably get armbared from guard within seconds.


Sorry but I highly doubt maia could outstrike Chael, he didn't the first time and he was very wild and loopy against santiago, chael has solid hands too its just you don't see them because of his wrestling but he holds his own with nearly everyone I have seen, off topic does anyone else think maias bjj has dipped BADLY since his loss to silva? he cant sub anyone and he doesnt guard pass that well anymore, munoz nearly got him in a darce too, I reckon palhares is now much better than him in BJJ for MMA.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Sorry but I highly doubt maia could outstrike Chael, he didn't the first time and he was very wild and loopy against santiago, chael has solid hands too its just you don't see them because of his wrestling but he holds his own with nearly everyone I have seen, off topic does anyone else think maias bjj has dipped BADLY since his loss to silva? he cant sub anyone and he doesnt guard pass that well anymore, munoz nearly got him in a darce too, I reckon palhares is now much better than him in BJJ for MMA.


Yes Maias striking did look wild against Santiago but it has looked pretty crisp at times before that. he also uses kicks unlike Sonnen who almost only uses punches. I dunno I'd give the edge to Maia but like I said not totaly sure, around 60/40ish. 

His BJJ does seem less effective lately, I think he has focused so much on his striking and wrestling that his BJJ has gotten a bit rusty, he still has the skill but might need to polish it a bit IMO.

On the topic as a whole I would LOVE to see Sonnen face Jacare, thts another fight I'm pretty confident that Chael would lose.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

mmaswe82 said:


> Yes Maias striking did look wild against Santiago but it has looked pretty crisp at times before that. he also uses kicks unlike Sonnen who almost only uses punches. I dunno I'd give the edge to Maia but like I said not totaly sure, around 60/40ish.
> 
> His BJJ does seem less effective lately, I think he has focused so much on his striking and wrestling that his BJJ has gotten a bit rusty, he still has the skill but might need to polish it a bit IMO.
> 
> On the topic as a whole I would LOVE to see Sonnen face Jacare, thts another fight I'm pretty confident that Chael would lose.


See this is where you and a lot of people are getting it wrong, what makes you think these BJJ guys can take down Chael? I mean Maia did it once with a beautiful judo throw but the odds of that happening again are slim, Jacare couldn't even takedown Luke Rockhold, Palhares is great on the ground but he wouldn't be able to get it there and it would be hard for him to close the distance with those short hands, Maia would have the best shot of the 3 but I think Chael sprawls and brawls and easily beats them all, I think he finishes them all except for Jacare standing too.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> See this is where you and a lot of people are getting it wrong, what makes you think these BJJ guys can take down Chael? I mean Maia did it once with a beautiful judo throw but the odds of that happening again are slim, Jacare couldn't even takedown Luke Rockhold, Palhares is great on the ground but he wouldn't be able to get it there and it would be hard for him to close the distance with those short hands, Maia would have the best shot of the 3 but I think Chael sprawls and brawls and easily beats them all, I think he finishes them all except for Jacare standing too.


Jacare I say is the same as Maia, beats Chael standing but is probably unable to take him down, could also trip him at some point. If (I know unlikely) Chael takes either Maia or Jacare down he will be triangled or armbared pretty quick.

Paul Harris would lose standing against Sonnen but I can see him dive in to a leglock and get it, he's very explosive ad usually get a hold of people eventually.


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## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> Chael has drastically improved each and every fight. It also took Anderson Silva nearly a full 5 rounds to land a triangle on Chael. Thats a very LONG LIMBED Anderson Silva. There is absolutely no reason to think that Palhares will be able to do it in 3 especially since he is unlikely to land a triangle which is the most likely sub to be landed against Chael since he liked spending his time in full guard. So Palhares is not likely to submit Chael in 3 rounds when Chael is most likely alot better then he was even against Anderson. It just wont happen...


You make very good points, but Palhares' bread and butter is leg locks/heel hooks.

Personally, I would give the edge to Sonnen, but that's not to say Palhares couldn't catch Sonnen. All it takes is one mistake. We can sit here and break it down/argue all day, but it really doesn't matter unless the fight happens.

As for Silva, everyone seems to have already made the assumption that Silva will be on his back for most of the fight. As much as I want to see Silva lose, he has a lot of time to work on his TDD. Who are we to say that Silva doesn't stuff an early takedown, and take his head off with a kick?


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

It is debatable. Should Sonnen get a rematch after only one win? Lesnar will get a title fight if he beats Reem, which will be only one win, but Reem is a bigger victory than Brian Stann and HW is a lot thinner than MW.

But of course, money talks.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)




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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Keep this on topic. No personal jabs whatsoever from this point on or infractions will be handed out.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

fuking dam right brother, Silva faced his demons when he faced Sonnen the first time and walked away still the champion, so now if Sonnen wants a rematch he should first have to face his own demons.

And there is nobody in the UFC who opposes a bigger stylistic threat to Sonnen than Tree Stump, right now its more than possible that Sonnen could talk his way into a title shot, but I would much rather he earn it and a victory over Palhares would be justification to earn him a title shot in my eyes so this fight defiantly should happen.

I already posted in another topic that Sonnen may want Silva but I bet he wants to avoid Palhares so much that he dare not even whisper his name, ***** piece of shit should step up and be a man and face the guy who opposes the biggest threat to him, I have more respect for Stann in that department at least he had the balls to call out and step in the cage again a guy who seriously was a bad stylistic match up for him even if it did not end up going very well for him, lets see now if Sonnen has the ball to follow that fine example and see if he can do any better.


----------



## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> Okay buddy. Sure w/e you want to think is fine with me. I know Palhares wont luck out and get a 1 out of a 1000 leg lock. He will be too busy on his back getting punched in the face.



Rousimar Palhares, 16 Fights, 13 Wins, 9 Subs, 6 Leg locks.

Odds look a lot better than 1 out of 1000 to me.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

KillerShark1985 said:


> fuking dam right brother, Silva faced his demons when he faced Sonnen the first time and walked away still the champion, so now if Sonnen wants a rematch he should first have to face his own demons.
> 
> And there is nobody in the UFC who opposes a bigger stylistic threat to Sonnen than Tree Stump, right now its more than possible that Sonnen could talk his way into a title shot, but I would much rather he earn it and a victory over Palhares would be justification to earn him a title shot in my eyes so this fight defiantly should happen.
> 
> I already posted in another topic that Sonnen may want Silva but I bet he wants to avoid Palhares so much that he dare not even whisper his name, ***** piece of shit should step up and be a man and face the guy who opposes the biggest threat to him, I have more respect for Stann in that department at least he had the balls to call out and step in the cage again a guy who seriously was a bad stylistic match up for him even if it did not end up going very well for him, lets see now if Sonnen has the ball to follow that fine example and see if he can do any better.




Lmao
What is this??? You are acting as if Sonnen is ducking Palhares. There is absolutely NO reason for Chael to call Palhares out. He isnt the champion and isnt far up the contenders list. When Chael becomes champion and the UFC asks Chael to fight Palhares then i am 120% certain that Chael will accept the fight without question.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

I mean c'mon we all know the motivations of posters getting into a tizzy over Chael getting his rematch. I'm sure Bisping will get his gifted shot at the title very soon, and hey he is a much better match for Chael than Bisping.


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## oordeel (Apr 14, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Lmao
> What is this??? You are acting as if Sonnen is ducking Palhares. There is absolutely NO reason for Chael to call Palhares out. He isnt the champion and isnt far up the contenders list. When Chael becomes champion and the UFC asks Chael to fight Palhares then i am 120% certain that Chael will accept the fight without question.


Based on the fact that Chael has never turned down a fight the UFC proposed to him, i tend to agree with you.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

oordeel said:


> Based on the fact that Chael has never turned down a fight the UFC proposed to him, i tend to agree with you.


People just want to hate on Chael for the joy of hating. Chael has never ducked an opponent and there is abso-*******-lutely no reason to think he has or will duck Palhares.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> fuking dam right brother, Silva faced his demons when he faced Sonnen the first time and walked away still the champion, so now if Sonnen wants a rematch he should first have to face his own demons.
> 
> And there is nobody in the UFC who opposes a bigger stylistic threat to Sonnen than Tree Stump, right now its more than possible that Sonnen could talk his way into a title shot, but I would much rather he earn it and a victory over Palhares would be justification to earn him a title shot in my eyes so this fight defiantly should happen.
> 
> I already posted in another topic that Sonnen may want Silva but I bet he wants to avoid Palhares so much that he dare not even whisper his name, ***** piece of shit should step up and be a man and face the guy who opposes the biggest threat to him, I have more respect for Stann in that department at least he had the balls to call out and step in the cage again a guy who seriously was a bad stylistic match up for him even if it did not end up going very well for him, lets see now if Sonnen has the ball to follow that fine example and see if he can do any better.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Palhares is not that bad of a stylistic match up for Sonnen, Hendo easily laid in Palhares's guard for 15 minutes and Sonnen could as swell. The fact Sonnen is very patient leaves him guarded against Palhares who is not renowned for his guard and there is no chance Palhares takes Sonnen down since Palhares is not a finese td artist but somebody who just powers through and that won't work on a wrestler the caliber of Sonnen.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Chael easily stuffs Palhares and rocks the dummy, maybe to a TKO.


Palhares makes such stupid, stupid decisions when he's flustered or anything happens, I wonder what he'd do when Chael rushed in swinging. Maybe bite him? Poke him in the eye and kick him in the nuts and run out the cage?


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Toxic said:


> *Palhares is not that bad of a stylistic match up for Sonnen, Hendo easily laid in Palhares's guard for 15 minutes* and Sonnen could as swell. The fact Sonnen is very patient leaves him guarded against Palhares who is not renowned for his guard and there is no chance Palhares takes Sonnen down since Palhares is not a finese td artist but somebody who just powers through and that won't work on a wrestler the caliber of Sonnen.


No he didn't lol. That's the exact opposite of what happened. Hendo used the sprawl and brawl tactic and avoided any take downs or ground exchanges with Palhares.

There was this huge slam though:


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Interesting match for sure but I think Chael could sprawl and brawl his way to a decision.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> No he didn't lol. That's the exact opposite of what happened. Hendo used the sprawl and brawl tactic and avoided any take downs or ground exchanges with Palhares.
> 
> There was this huge slam though:


Maybe I am crazy but I thought I remembered Hendo spending a considerable amount of time in his guard. :confused02:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Maybe I am crazy but I thought I remembered Hendo spending a considerable amount of time in his guard. :confused02:


Nah man, 90 percent of the fight was standing up, check it out again.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> See this is where you and a lot of people are getting it wrong, what makes you think these BJJ guys can take down Chael? I mean Maia did it once with a beautiful judo throw but the odds of that happening again are slim, Jacare couldn't even takedown Luke Rockhold, Palhares is great on the ground but he wouldn't be able to get it there and it would be hard for him to close the distance with those short hands, Maia would have the best shot of the 3 but I think Chael sprawls and brawls and easily beats them all, I think he finishes them all except for Jacare standing too.


Does nobody remember this?



or this?



Rousimar is a beast.. for the heads that don't know they are Dan Henderson and Jeremy Horn, two very decorated wrestlers.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

MRBRESK said:


> Does nobody remember this?


Yes it was posted in this thread already, and it came to nothing and it wouldn't happen again and not to chael.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Maybe I am crazy but I thought I remembered Hendo spending a considerable amount of time in his guard. :confused02:


I dont think how much time Hendo spent in RPs guard really matters when you are talking about how bad of a style match up he may be for Sonnen. Sonnen has shown on plenty of occasions that he has average sub defense at best. Hendo has been subbed three times in is career, once by Silva after his was rocked, and once by each of the Nog bros, who are both very solid all around fighters. Sonnen was dumb enough to jump into Filhos guard when he was clearly kicking his ass standing (that fight is still amazing to me and makes me question Chaels fighter IQ). Sonnen is prone to making giant mistakes on the ground, Hendo generally has a very solid ground game.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Yes it was posted in this thread already, and it came to nothing and it wouldn't happen again and not to chael.


My point is if Palhares can take Jeremy Horn and Hendo down, and Anderson and Maia can take Chael down, then i don't see how it would be crazy to believe that Palhares can land a TD on Sonnen.

I honestly believe Palhares is the best MMA BJJ guy bar none and on the ground i think he would murder Chael, he'd roll for a knee from guard and if he were on top then i would feel very, very sorry for Chael.

I favour Palhares against any guy in the MW division on the ground, and would love to see him vs Jacare, but the fact that Chael has been submitted 8 times makes me really believe that the best BJJ and most explosive offensive BJJ guy he's ever faced would most definitely tap him out.

Edit: Don't want to double post but i'm feeling a little Giffy tonight, these are from Abu Dhabi this year.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Palhares is not that bad of a stylistic match up for Sonnen, *Hendo easily laid in Palhares's guard for 15 minutes and Sonnen could as swell*. The fact Sonnen is very patient leaves him guarded against Palhares who is not renowned for his guard and there is no chance Palhares takes Sonnen down since Palhares is not a finese td artist but somebody who just powers through and that won't work on a wrestler the caliber of Sonnen.


Watch that fight again mate because that's nothing like how the fight went down, Hendo used his wrestling to avoid the takedowns in that fight and never once looked to take Palhares down, that fight was spent 90% on the feet, and on the few occasions the fight did hit the ground Palhares was the one in control on top and looking for the submissions, Hendo was never once in Palhares guard not even for a second.

I think Palhares learned a lot from that fight also, Hendo fairly won the decision because like I say the fight was 90% to even 95% stand up and Hendo was the only one even throwing strikes while standing, Palhares was looking for the take down 100% of the time and not even using strikes to set up his take down attempts, so Hendo was easily able to stuff them most of the time, but on the few occasions where the fight did hit the ground Hendo was nearly caught and in serious risk of been submitted and looked for nothing else other than to get back to his feet, was a fair points decision win to Hendo for the reason he was the only one attacking on the feet but never once did he come close to finishing the fight.

Since that fight its clear that Palhares has been working on using strikes to set up his take downs more effectively, since I bet that was the first time ever he had faced anyone able to stuff his take downs and then realised that if he wanted to compete with high level wrestlers common in the UFC he would have to do what he does now and set up with strikes, if Hendo vs Palhares was ever to come to a rematch with the improvement Palhares has made with his striking and setting up of his take downs I would bet on Palhares to win, just like I woudl bet on him to beat Sonnen.

Seriously you are way of the mark with that statement because that is nothing even remotely like what happen in that fight.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Fight will never happen anyways pointless debate.


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

Uh, Sonnen just came off a long layoff and took apart a great fighter in Brian Stann. 

He also came within 4 1/2 rounds of winning the title and props to Silva for catching Sonnen in that riangle, but what Sonnen did before that cannot be ignored and Sonnen clearly has the formula and ability to beat Silva.

Those reasons as well as the fact that these two have bad blood means there is no other fight to make. Besides, Sonnen was set to get an immediate re-match after their first fight.

Anyone who thinks Sonnen should not fight Silva next is just crazy.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> Uh, Sonnen just came off a long layoff and took apart a great fighter in Brian Stann.
> 
> He also came within 4 1/2 rounds of winning the title and props to Silva for catching Sonnen in that riangle, but what Sonnen did before that cannot be ignored and *Sonnen clearly has the formula* and ability to beat Silva.
> 
> ...


Yeah, he should share with the world the perfect combo of steroids needed to beat Silva...

...Oh wait, he didn't beat Silva, so he needs to review his combo!


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

AmdM said:


> Yeah, he should share with the world the perfect combo of steroids needed to beat Silva...
> 
> ...Oh wait, he didn't beat Silva, so he needs to review his combo!


Again, ignore the first 4 1/2 rounds all you want but it happened. 

And I think if Sonnen can throw Stan around with ease without steroids then he will be able to take Silva down at will.

When this fight is made then the Silva fans will be nervous and they should be. Im not guaranteeing Sonnen will win, but if anyone thinks he cant then they are kidding themselves.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> Again, ignore the first 4 1/2 rounds all you want but it happened.
> 
> And I think if Sonnen can throw Stan around with ease *without steroids* then he will be able to take Silva down at will.
> 
> When this fight is made then the Silva fans will be nervous and they should be. Im not guaranteeing Sonnen will win, but if anyone thinks he cant then they are kidding themselves.


Test results haven't come out yet. 

I don't know if he was tested, but i think it should mandatory for every person that has been caught before.


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

AmdM said:


> Test results haven't come out yet.
> 
> I don't know if he was tested, but i think it should mandatory for every person that has been caught before.


Good point, but I dont think Sonnen is that stupid. 

I agree that people caught using rods should be tested more often.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

UFC_OWNS said:


> yep the same, it doesnt matter how fiho was it showed that sonnen learned from the first fight and and sprawled and brawled and dominated..


How did he learn from it? You are aware the Maia fight happened AFTER the second Filho fight? If Sonnen supposedly learned how to sprawl and brawl BJJ guys why did he get instantly submitted against Maia?


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> Again, ignore the first 4 1/2 rounds all you want but it happened.
> 
> And I think if Sonnen can throw Stan around with ease without steroids then he will be able to take Silva down at will.
> 
> When this fight is made then the Silva fans will be nervous and they should be. Im not guaranteeing Sonnen will win, but if anyone thinks he cant then they are kidding themselves.





AmdM said:


> Test results haven't come out yet.
> 
> I don't know if he was tested, but i think it should mandatory for every person that has been caught before.


The Texas commission almost certainly let him use testosterone for his fight with Stann. When asked point blank if he was using TRT, he said he couldn't say because he wasn't a manager.

Nevada, where the Superbowl weekend show takes place, won't let him use TRT, and they have out of competition testing for anyone who is licensed.

So if Sonnen gets licensed to fight in Nevada, I assume his doctor would not clear him to fight, since he swore under oath that it would be dangerous to Sonnen's health to fight without the TRT.

I mean, that would only be logical that he would do what he swore he'd do, right?


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

SmackyBear said:


> *The Texas commission almost certainly let him use testosterone for his fight with Stann.* When asked point blank if he was using TRT, he said he couldn't say because he wasn't a manager.
> 
> Nevada, where the Superbowl weekend show takes place, won't let him use TRT, and they have out of competition testing for anyone who is licensed.
> 
> ...


And you know this for sure? Can you 100% say you know this?

If so then source please.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

SmackyBear said:


> The Texas commission almost certainly let him use testosterone for his fight with Stann. When asked point blank if he was using TRT, he said he couldn't say because he wasn't a manager.
> 
> Nevada, where the Superbowl weekend show takes place, won't let him use TRT, and they have out of competition testing for anyone who is licensed.
> 
> ...


Yes, i have a feeling he got himself a permission to dope...excuse me, permission to level his testosterone...:confused05:


Hey Chael, wanna fight Anderson?
Will you fight him in Vegas or... you don't like the weather there?


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> And you know this for sure? Can you 100% say you know this?
> 
> If so then source please.


The word almost appeared in my post right before certainly, so it should be obvious that I can't say I 100% know this for a fact.

However, he did say he would keep using it:



> Sonnen, *who said he would be competing on testosterone replacement therapy going forward* (“Does a diabetic get to just take a break from insulin?” he asked), probably lost more due to a drug suspension than any fighter in MMA history. A rematch with Silva would have been among this year’s biggest pay-per-view fights. The second suspension also cost him the high-profile coaching spot on the fall season of “TUF.” In addition, before the drug suspension, coming off the Silva loss, because of his ability to promote, the UFC marketing machine was getting heavily behind him as one of the major faces of the company.


That, his "I can't talk about that" non-denial, and Texas' incompetent history of policing PEDs in combat sports (or regulating combat sports at all, actually) leads me to believe there's a very high probability that Chael gave them his "doctor's" note and they rubber stamped his TUE to use TRT.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> Uh, Sonnen just came off a long layoff and took apart a great fighter in Brian Stann.
> 
> He also came within 4 1/2 rounds of winning the title and props to Silva for catching Sonnen in that riangle, but what Sonnen did before that cannot be ignored and Sonnen clearly has the formula and ability to beat Silva.
> 
> ...


First off lets not push what Stann really is, its a bit of a stretch calling him a great fighter, good or half decent is more like it, but the guy has a terrible ground game so lets not push ourself over the edge and start calling him a great fighter.

Secondly lets just ignore the fact that Sonnen has displayed a serious weakness in his overall game been submission defence, its a weakness we have seen time and time again, but lets just ignore that fact stall we and keen giving him good stylistic opponents like Stann who will not expose that weakness and fall victim into all Sonnens strengths, I know lets just ignore that shall we and just keep giving him title shot after title shot without even testing him in between until eventually his day comes and he wins the title.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

KillerShark1985 said:


> First off lets not push what Stann really is, its a bit of a stretch calling him a great fighter, good or half decent is more like it, but the guy has a terrible ground game so lets not push ourself over the edge and start calling him a great fighter.
> 
> Secondly lets just ignore the fact that Sonnen has displayed a serious weakness in his overall game been submission defence, its a weakness we have seen time and time again, but lets just ignore that fact stall we and keen giving him good stylistic opponents like Stann who will not expose that weakness and fall victim into all Sonnens strengths, I know lets just ignore that shall we and just keep giving him title shot after title shot without even testing him in between until eventually his day comes and he wins the title.


And the person who should get the next title shot is.....


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

John8204 said:


> And the person who should get the next title shot is.....


Sonnen. And he will. And Silva fans will S*** themselves.

And TRT or not, Sonnen can take Silva down.


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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

I love how every bodies calling him Paul Harris now lol.

Anyways, I think Sonnen has a very underrated Stand-up game, and would probably keep it standing the whole fight and win a UD.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> Sonnen. And he will. And Silva fans will S*** themselves.


No no no I want KillerShark1985 to say who he thinks should get the next title shot.....


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

John8204 said:


> No no no I want KillerShark1985 to say who he thinks should get the next title shot.....


My bad.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

dlxrevolution said:


> I love how every bodies calling him Paul Harris now lol.
> 
> Anyways, I think Sonnen has a very underrated Stand-up game, and would probably keep it standing the whole fight and win a UD.


Nice troll lol


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

John8204 said:


> And the person who should get the next title shot is.....


The winner of Mayhem and Bisping.

or should we ignore the fact Bisping is on a 3 fight winning streak and Mayhem is on a 2, should Bisping win he will be on a 4 fight streak with his last loss been a very questionable decision and that's more than 3 of Silvas last 4 opponents (Okmai = 3, Sonnen = 3, Maia = 1) or should we just ignore that if Bisping wins and keep screwing him out of a title shot.


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

KillerShark1985 said:


> The winner of Mayhem and Bisping.
> 
> or should we ignore the fact Bisping is on a 3 fight winning streak and Mayhem is on a 2, should Bisping win he will be on a 4 fight streak with his last loss been a very questionable decision and that's more than 3 of Silvas last 4 opponents (Okmai = 3, Sonnen = 3, Maia = 1) or should we just ignore that if Bisping wins and keep screwing him out of a title shot.


I can see how you can make the case for Bisping, but if Miller beats him you think he should get Silva next? 

His last two wins were against Tim Stout and Sakuraba, even if he beats Bisping I think he has some more work to do.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> I can see how you can make the case for Bisping, but if Miller beats him you think he should get Silva next?
> 
> His last two wins were against Tim Stout and Sakuraba, even if he beats Bisping I think he has some more work to do.


I am thinking of the case more in favour is Bisping wins, can see your point about Miller tho, but if Bisping wins he should defantly get the next shot, if Miller wins then ok you need to re assess the situation maybe bring Henderson in the picture, or set the table for one of those big P4P rival matches the fans always ask for like Silva vs GSP or the one I personally would love to see still at 205lb Silva vs Shogun.

In the mean time Sonnen should be forced to fight again if not against Palhares who I think has his number and will beat him, then against another contender like Henderson or Victor Belfort.

The Palhares fight still makes more sense to me tho because if Palhares wins then all will be right once again in the division because a win over Sonnen will bring him up into the mix which is exactly where he belongs, the Nate fight was a huge set back and should of been his break through fight into the top tier of the division, and he did not lose that fight because he was not the better fighter imo he had all the skill and more to be able to finish Nate Marquardt

and besides Palhares has bounced back with 2 good dominating wins since the Nate fight, one of whihc deserved submission of the night, the other should have been given a good shout at winning FOTN, do you not think he as earned his right again to face another top contender or should the UFC just keep on screwing him over while they keep giving title shots to lying and cheating ass holes like Sonnen who Tree Stump would more than likely beat.


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

KillerShark1985 said:


> I am thinking of the case more in favour is Bisping wins, can see your point about Miller tho, but if Bisping wins he should defantly get the next shot, if Miller wins then ok you need to re assess the situation maybe bring Henderson in the picture, or set the table for one of those big P4P rival matches the fans always ask for like Silva vs GSP or the one I personally would love to see still at 205lb Silva vs Shogun.
> 
> In the mean time Sonnen should be forced to fight again if not against Palhares who I think has his number and will beat him, then against another contender like Henderson or Victor Belfort.
> 
> The Palhares fight still makes more sense to me tho because if Palhares wins then all will be right once again in the division because a win over Sonnen will bring him up into the mix which is exactly where he belongs, the Nate fight was a huge set back and should of been his break through fight into the top tier of the division, and he did not lose that fight because he was not the better fighter imo he had all the skill and more to be able to finish Nate Marquardt


I think the only way Palhares wins is if he can take Sonnen down, Im not so sure he will be able to. Even if he does get the fight to the ground its no guaruntee that he wins.

I think the fight stays standing and Sonnen outpoints Palhares in a boring standup fight.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Bisping should get a title shot if/when he beats any one of these men.


Alan Belcher
Brian Stann
Chael Sonnen
Damien Maia
Mark Munoz
Rousimer Palhares
Yushin Okami
Vitor Belfort

also keep in mind the following fighters have won just as many if not more fights in a row as Bisping

Belcher - 3
Munoz - 3
Simpson - 3
Wiedman - 6
Mcgee - 8

But frankly even if they do give Bisping a giftwrapped title shot, he's got a much better chance beating Sonnen with his standup and TDD than Silva with his boxing. You should want and be pulling for Chael.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> I think the only way Palhares wins is if he can take Sonnen down, Im not so sure he will be able to. Even if he does get the fight to the ground its no guaruntee that he wins.
> 
> I think the fight stays standing and Sonnen outpoints Palhares in a boring standup fight.


I would not under estimate the improvements Palhares has made in his stand up since the Hendo fight, because the Hendo fight was the only time I have ever seen him do nothing on the feet, Nate was on the bqck foot running back for his life when Palhares started his stand up attack, and when it hit the ground Pahlares was able to ride him like Sonnen was abel to ride Stann and there is no question in who has the better ground defence out of Nate and Stann.

And besides Sonnen has only been known to fight one way and thats take the guy down and beat on him on the ground, ok we saw a submission style attack for the very first time against Stann the other night but it was still a ground style attack and against an opponent with a very weak ground game, so to assume that he would chose to stand where he would be well out of his normal realm and be able to win holds no viable basis what so ever.


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## Persian Meerkat (Feb 12, 2011)

Chael's best weapon in the stand-up is the threat of a takedown, no chance that Chael Sonnen exposes himself by remaining on his feet any longer than strictly necessary. As it were, he clinched with Stann. He'd look for the same with Palhares or any other similarly heavy-handed middleweight.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

I think before Sonnen gets a titleshot he should face either Bisping if he wins his next fight or a rematch with Maia. A fight with belfort could also be intersting for number 1 conternder.

But Sonnen is basicly garanteed the next shot. His big mouth has made it possible.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

I see Sonnen vs Palhares play out like Sonnen vs Marquardt did. Palhares will probably put up a better fight but im pretty sure he would lose none the less.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> I don't care if Harris isn't "in the mix".
> 
> Sonnen loses to Harris 9/10. C'mon Dana, book the fight.


This without a doubt in my mind.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> I see Sonnen vs Palhares play out like Sonnen vs Marquardt did. Palhares will probably put up a better fight but im pretty sure he would lose none the less.


I think you're sort of right. It would play out the same but instead of Nate almost subbing Sonnen we would see Palhares actually sub him. 

BTW, what is with the Paul Harris/Palhares thing? Can someone explain that to me? I thought they were actually different fighters for a while but people seem to use the names interchangeably. Is this some meme I don't know about?


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## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

Drogo said:


> I think you're sort of right. It would play out the same but instead of Nate almost subbing Sonnen we would see Palhares actually sub him.
> 
> BTW, what is with the Paul Harris/Palhares thing? Can someone explain that to me? I thought they were actually different fighters for a while but people seem to use the names interchangeably. Is this some meme I don't know about?


Internet joke more than anything. If you say his name it somewhat sounds like Paul Harris. 

I think Goldie or Rogan pronounced it as Paul Harris at one point, but I could be wrong on that.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

On the same boat with the Paul Harris meme...haha. He's actually a viable threat for anybody. Only issue is, he's simply not the brightest fighter out there. Aside from that he can end anybody's night in an instant.

I vote for Vitor Belfort going against Chael cuz I think Anderson will need more time to recuperate and the UFC will have no choice, but to schedule an interim fight. Then I'll plunk down $50 on Vitor FTKOW!


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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> Nice troll lol


Sigh...

You mean to tell me Paul Harris's sloppy stand up is better than Chael Sonnens much crisper boxing? Sure Palhares throws absolute bombs, but none the less, he is sloppy.

The only reason why people say Sonnens stand-up is suspect, is because he uses his takedowns to perfection. Now of coarse he can't stand with he best of em (Silva, Belfort, Rich) but you're going rank his stand-up under someone like Palhares? C'mon now...


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

I think we would see Sonnen use his grappling in reverse and out box Harris. Sonnen isn't getting taken down by Harris. Harris aint out striking Sonnen. Sonnen wins this fight all day. End thread.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Drogo said:


> I think you're sort of right. It would play out the same but instead of Nate almost subbing Sonnen we would see Palhares actually sub him.
> 
> BTW, what is with the Paul Harris/Palhares thing? Can someone explain that to me? I thought they were actually different fighters for a while but people seem to use the names interchangeably. Is this some meme I don't know about?


Nope. Sonnen wins a UD.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Whatever... I think its a great matchup. Never really considered it before, but now is been mentioned, I would love to see it.

Ive no idea why so many people are opposed to the fight.:confused02:


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I think we would see Sonnen use his grappling in reverse and out box Harris. Sonnen isn't getting taken down by Harris. Harris aint out striking Sonnen. Sonnen wins this fight all day. End thread.


Don't like him but he's absolutely right.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I think we would see Sonnen use his grappling in reverse and out box Harris. *Sonnen isn't getting taken down by Harris.* Harris aint out striking Sonnen. Sonnen wins this fight all day. End thread.












Sonnen fans can just pretend that never happened, yea.

People forget that Sonnen's actual fight IQ is very poor at times. Wouldn't surprise me if Sonnen had a brain fart and jumped straight into PH's guard. Then PH has a brain fart and doesn't realise Chael is tapping and the ref is trying to stop the fight, so he ends up breaking Chaels leg in a million different places and he never fights again.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Sonnen fans can just pretend that never happened, yea.


Just stop. It is clear that you and killershark dislike sonnen and thats ok but to act like palhares can take down a great wrestler for something maia pulled off once is absurd, and btw the maia throw was excellent and I don't deny it happened it was beautiful technique


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Just stop. It is clear that you and killershark dislike sonnen and thats ok* but to act like palhares can take down a great wrestler* for something maia pulled off once is absurd, and btw the maia throw was excellent and I don't deny it happened it was beautiful technique


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Mckeever said:


>


Again who is that? that is Dan Henderson at not even his best weight of 185, shields took down hendo too at 185, you show me training practice of BJJ guys taking down chael at will and I will admit i'm wrong but until then.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

Palhares does not need a takedown to have a good chance to win this fight. He only needs to grab Sonnens leg or get taken down himself (I think Sonnen is stupid enought to do this).


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Just stop. It is clear that you and killershark dislike sonnen and thats ok but to* act like palhares can take down a great wrestler* for something maia pulled off once is absurd, and btw the maia throw was excellent and I don't deny it happened it was beautiful technique














UFC_OWNS said:


> Again who is that? that is Dan Henderson at not even his best weight of 185, shields took down hendo too at 185, you show me training practice *of BJJ guys taking down chael at will* and I will admit i'm wrong but until then.












There you go. Two pieces of concrete evidence


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> There you go. Two pieces of concrete evidence


Dan Henderson is not NEARLY the MMA wrestler that Chael Sonnen is. There is not a single fight in which Dan Wrestling shows even half the wrestling that Chael Sonnen shows. EVEN in the Anderson Silva fight the difference in Hendersons wrestling and Chaels wrestling is that of night and day. If Dan was able to employ the Sprawl and Brawl technique successfully then Chael could do it in his sleep.


The Demian Maia throw was amazing and beautiful and rare. The reason that throw is considered so amazing is because its not something you see often. For Palhares to be able to do anything close to that is extremely unlikely. Even for Demian Maia the chances of pulling that off again is extremely unlikely.

So to use any of that stuff to support your argument is just not realistic. I get that you are a Chael hater and want to hold on to any shred of hope and use anything to believe he would lose but at some point you need to just start looking things for what they are and being more realistic. You can try and turn these words around or dismiss them but i know we both realize that they are true.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Dan Henderson is not NEARLY the MMA wrestler that Chael Sonnen is. There is not a single fight in which Dan Wrestling shows even half the wrestling that Chael Sonnen shows. EVEN in the Anderson Silva fight the difference in Hendersons wrestling and Chaels wrestling is that of night and day. If Dan was able to employ the Sprawl and Brawl technique successfully then Chael could do it in his sleep.
> 
> 
> The Demian Maia throw was amazing and beautiful and rare. The reason that throw is considered so amazing is because its not something you see often. For Palhares to be able to do anything close to that is extremely unlikely. Even for Demian Maia the chances of pulling that off again is extremely unlikely.
> ...


I wasn't trying to be realistic or using those gifs to support my argument, I was just directly answering UFC_OWNS queries.

He said: "Show me a gif of PH taking down a great wrestler". I shown him one. And then; "Show me a BJJ fighter taking down Chael Sonnen". I shown him again.

My main point to support the argument of Chael losing to elite BJJ fighter's is the fact that in the recent past he has shown extreme vulnerability to submissions from high level BJJ specialists. As intelligent as he seems to be outside of MMA, that intelligence doesn't always transfer over to fighting, as he has made some real questionable decisions in the past which have cost him victories.

Out grappling and submitting Brian Stann isn't any indication as to how well Chael has improved his BJJ when Stann has shown major weaknesses in grappling in the past. Getting thoroughly dominated by Phil Davis on the mat AND being tapped out by Krzysztof Soszynski. Chael did to Brian Stann what some one like Jason Miller could probably do to him too.

The Stann fight isn't any indication that Chael has some how mended the holes in submission defense against top BJJ fighters and I'd still happily bet on any elite submission artist to beat Chael Sonnen.

You know what, I actually think Jason Miller could possibly submit Chael Sonnen. I wouldn't put money on that one, but it's quite a bad stylistic match up for him.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> I wasn't trying to be realistic or using those gifs to support my argument, I was just directly answering UFC_OWNS queries.
> 
> He said: "Show me a gif of PH taking down a great wrestler". I shown him one. And then; "Show me a BJJ fighter taking down Chael Sonnen". I shown him again.
> 
> ...


Sonnen already beat miller and I did say take chael down at will not 1 judo flip that while great happened only once and mainly because it happened by surprise and sonnen wasn't in any trouble before that.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Sonnen already beat miller and I did say take chael down at will not 1 judo flip that while great happened only once and mainly because it happened by surprise and sonnen wasn't in any trouble before that.


Yes, Sonnen beat Miller in....................2002. Using that fight as some kind of gauge as to how the fight would go down today in.......2011 would be a bit silly. 

I wasn't saying with certainty Miller would beat Chael either. I said it wouldn't suprise me if he pulled off the win and submitted Chael, but I certainly wouldn't be banking on it either.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

McKeever who should face Silva if not Sonnen.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

John8204 said:


> McKeever who should face Silva if not Sonnen.


Bisping because he'll give a good fight right guys:confused05:


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> I wasn't trying to be realistic or using those gifs to support my argument, I was just directly answering UFC_OWNS queries.
> 
> He said: "Show me a gif of PH taking down a great wrestler". I shown him one. And then; "Show me a BJJ fighter taking down Chael Sonnen". I shown him again.
> 
> ...



That isnt really true. In Chael Sonnens last 5 fights he has only lost once and that was to Anderson Silva after literally dominating the fight for 24minutes. Anderson Silva was on the bottom just about the whole fight and was not able to submit Chael until the very end when Chael was extremely tired from throwing that many punches. For Chael to avoid getting subbed for that long while constantly throwing punches proves that his sub defense is pretty good. When a fighter is on top the highest chance of him getting subbed is when he is in guard and throwing punches. For Chael to throw the MOST punches out of any fight and be in guard for that long and not get subbed until the very end when he is extremely tired is actually pretty impressive. This is Anderson Silva we are talking about after all, the guy subbed Travis lutter Quicker and Travis Lutter is considered to have some of the best JJ out there. If Chael decided to just grind the last 2 minutes out and not take so many chances by constantly being active and punching, you cant deny that its VERY likely he would have been champion. So even though some people want to insult Chael Sonnens JJ because he got subbed, he actually showed that he has very good JJ defense and it isnt easy to sub him. Other fighters give 1/5th the chances to get subbed by just laying there and not punching and they still get subbed even quicker.

And then we have Chael sonnens other most recent opponents which are

Dan Miller - He has great submissions and Chael Sonnen avoided them all. And this fight was over 2 years ago. 13wins, 8 by submissions. 61.54%

Yushin Okami - He came close to submitting Rich Franklin. Even though he doesn't use submissions that often, he is clearly talented at them. Chael Sonnen put him in such positions in which his only resource was using submissions and he still could not pull it off.

Nate Marquardt - has 31 wins and 15 of them have been by submission. Thats close to having a 50% sub percentage. He is a very highly touted JJ practitioner and he has actually submitted the likes of Ricardo Almeida and Jeremy Horn (2008 Jeremy Horn). He went toe to toe with Palhares on the ground and was not afraid of a JJ match before he eventually tko/ko him. 


Brian Stann. - Not much to say.


So those 5 are Chael Sonnens "Recent" showings and in NONE of them has he shown bad JJ defense. In all those fight he put those guys in a situation where their only recourse IS trying JJ and they still could not land a submission even though Chael does not stall and gives them every opportunity in the world to land one. So Chael Sonnen for over 2 years now has shown nothing but amazing performances and great submission defense. 

Chael used to have huge flaws in his game but he has obviously worked very hard to fix these flaws. The people that say Chael has recently shown huge gaps in his JJ are speaking without facts to back those claims up. What they say is a complete baseless myth. No more no less.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> .
> 
> And then we have Chael sonnens other most recent opponents which are
> 
> ...



Dan miller has only really subbed cans, Marquardt isnt really an elite BJJ MMA fighter having only subbed Jeremy Horn and and some guy named Crafton Wallace in the last 5 years he also LOST to Almeida btw. And Okami has ONE legit submission on his record EVER.

Your argument sucked a bit there. :thumb02:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

John8204 said:


> McKeever who should face Silva if not Sonnen.


Jake Shields. Just kidding, I don't know, I just feel as if Chael should have another fight against a top contender or a serious submission fighter before he gets another crack at Anderson.



SideWays222 said:


> That isnt really true. In Chael Sonnens last 5 fights he has only lost once and that was to Anderson Silva after literally dominating the fight for 24minutes. Anderson Silva was on the bottom just about the whole fight and was not able to submit Chael until the very end when Chael was extremely tired from throwing that many punches. For Chael to avoid getting subbed for that long while constantly throwing punches proves that his sub defense is pretty good. When a fighter is on top the highest chance of him getting subbed is when he is in guard and throwing punches. For Chael to throw the MOST punches out of any fight and be in guard for that long and not get subbed until the very end when he is extremely tired is actually pretty impressive. This is Anderson Silva we are talking about after all, the guy subbed Travis lutter Quicker and Travis Lutter is considered to have some of the best JJ out there. If Chael decided to just grind the last 2 minutes out and not take so many chances by constantly being active and punching, you cant deny that its VERY likely he would have been champion. So even though some people want to insult Chael Sonnens JJ because he got subbed, he actually showed that he has very good JJ defense and it isnt easy to sub him. Other fighters give 1/5th the chances to get subbed by just laying there and not punching and they still get subbed even quicker.
> 
> And then we have Chael sonnens other most recent opponents which are
> 
> ...


You really need to work on your reading comprehension skills Mister. Read the bolded part of my post and think about what I said.

*"Elite BJJ fighters"*
*"Elite BJJ fighters...."*
*"Elite BJJ fighters...."*


Yushin Okami
Dan Miller
Brian Stann
Nate Marquardt

Neither of those men are ELITE when it comes to BJJ. Dan Miller has the best BJJ out of that bunch, but he still doesn't fall under the elite, top notch category.

Elite BJJ players are guys such as; Maia, Palhares, Aoki, Penn, Rocha, Jacare Souza (who would beat Chael), Jake Shields etc etc

Okami, Nate, Stann and Miller quite simply do not fall under that elite category.

Until Chael Sonnen faces a top notch BJJ fighter (such as Palhares, Maia or Jacare) I, am not convinced he has mended the glaring holes in his submission defense and there has been no evidence to suggest he has. (against top BJJ fighters!)


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Palhares is a HORRIBLE match up for Chael, for real, end of.

But Chael will most likely fight Silva next so it doesn't matter right now.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

He is 5-2 in his last 7 and his best win came against Dan Miller , i think he would need to beat a top 5 guy maybe top 3 before he should get the number 2 in the division.

Also people like to say Sonnen is vunerable to submissions which i believe are his biggest weakness but losing to Maia , Filho and Silva by triangle in the 5th round is hardly embarrassing.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

***** de Amigo said:


> Also people like to say Sonnen is vunerable to submissions which i believe are his biggest weakness but losing to Maia , Filho and Silva by triangle in the 5th round is hardly embarrassing.


Its not embarrasing but he has lost 8(?) times via submission in fights where he has for the most part been dominating. Losing from submissions made from guys on the bottom.

So I think to say he is vulnerable to submissions and inparticular elite BJJ guys is fair.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> Jake Shields. Just kidding, I don't know, I just feel as if Chael should have another fight against a top contender or a serious submission fighter before he gets another crack at Anderson.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Okayyyy.... there little buddy. Everything is going to be okay. Just calm down and il go get you some hot chocolate. Would you like that little buddy?? Would you like some hot chocolate?? Alright im going to get you some hot chocolate.



:confused05: :confused03:


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## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> Okayyyy.... there little buddy. Everything is going to be okay. Just calm down and il go get you some hot chocolate. Would you like that little buddy?? Would you like some hot chocolate?? Alright im going to get you some hot chocolate.
> 
> 
> 
> :confused05: :confused03:


It's actually pretty cold here. If you are willing, I'd like some too.


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## c-dub (Nov 18, 2010)

Lol as much as I hate Sonnen's crap outside of the cage his fighting skills speak for themselves. I have never agreed with the UFC's habit of giving title shot losers instant rematches or letting them lose, win one fight and then get back in the cage with the champ. It's a little crappy to the other guys trying to come up the ranks. I believe that Sonnen should fight another top contender or 2 before he gets his rematch. If he had lost by contraversial decision, or had gone to a draw, MAYBE a rematch this fast but he was finished by the champ, he should have to work to get his shot again because as of right now he's on a 1 fight winning streak vs other fighters in the MW division riding 3+ wins. just my 2 cents though.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

lmfao at Jacare beating Sonnen. I'm guessing you didn't see the Rockhold and Kennedy fights.


In the UFC (or any MMA org), you don't put #1 contenders against guys not even in the top 10 just because it'd be stylistically interesting. It's absurd beyond belief. 

Maybe before Silva faces Chael, he should have to face Weidman to see if his wrestling has improved enough. :confused05:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Okayyyy.... there little buddy. Everything is going to be okay. Just calm down and il go get you some hot chocolate. Would you like that little buddy?? Would you like some hot chocolate?? Alright im going to get you some hot chocolate.
> 
> 
> 
> :confused05: :confused03:


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## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

Like a few others have mentioned, it surprises me that there are people with the impression that Chael wouldn't be submitted by a high level BJJ practitioner like Palhares, or Maia. Especially Maia, who is high level enough where just being on the ground with him is ill-advisable.

I can certainly understand the belief that it would be difficult to take Chael down, but if the fight did get to the ground, I think anyone with solid BJJ would have a chance to submit Chael.

All of that being said, I think most people who are Silva fans want to see Chael fight someone with the potential to test his sub defense before he gets another shot at Silva.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> lmfao at Jacare beating Sonnen. I'm guessing you didn't see the Rockhold and Kennedy fights.
> 
> 
> In the UFC (or any MMA org), you don't put #1 contenders against guys not even in the top 10 just because it'd be stylistically interesting. It's absurd beyond belief.
> ...


A)Silva has actually BEATEN those wrestlers regardless of his holes in the game. 

B)Chael has LOST to elite BJJ fighters

C)Anderson is the champion, the longest reigning champion in the UFC

D)Chael is not and never has been the champion

Learn2MMA 15 year old MMA fans.


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