# Randy on HGH??



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Let me first say that I have no source that this is just my own opinion. I like Randy and respect his skills and in no way am I bashing him or trying to ruin his legacy.

Randy Couture is 45 years old. In Combat sports that is usally 5 years too old to be compteing at any level, let alone being champion at the highest level. With all this talk about Roger Clemens going on right now about how he has gotten better with age, how can we not look at out own sport and our current poster boy Randy Couture. Whether you believe it or not, HGH is the most commonly used performance enhancer in pro sports today. Its naive to think that MMA fighters arent using it as well. If your Randy and you dont want to retire the way he did, why wouldnt you take it. Tons have medical research has been done that has been shown to help older ahtletes regain their once dominant form and even make them better than they ever were. It happened to Clemens, Bonds, and now it is happening Randy. Am I jumping to conclusions?? Possibly, but I dont think so. I small side eefect of HGH is that the abdominal region of the athlete pertrudes outward. Look in bodybuilders and pro wrestlers, they have ripped abs but their stomach kind of sticks out. That is a sign of HGH. Not to metnion it actually increases the size of your face and head. If you look at Randy you can see the bulge in his stomach that I speak of. I could be grasping at straws here but think about it with an open mind. Chuck Liddell KO's him twice, Randy retires. than he comes back after a year of not fighting anyone comes back and DESTROYS two very big, very strong, and very talented fighters. I just find is odd that he comes out of retirement at 44,45 and is better than he ever was. Something isnt right. Where there is smoke there is usually fire. Look at Bonds look at Clemens


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## Shoguns_Nuts (Oct 11, 2007)

Randy is very disciplined. His diet and work ethic are second to none, maybe he just has good genetics?..


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

I would not be surprised at all if Randy was using HGH or steroids. However, everyone is innocent until proven guilty, so I'm still a believer that he just diets correctly, has a very good work ethic, and is an intelligent person. Thinking that your favorite MMA athlete hasn't used roids or HGH in his life/career is naive though, imo, and I bet the majority of top guys have all done it.


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## grnlt (Oct 15, 2006)

No doubt in my mind he is/has done it. I have said it for a while now. Especially in the past 2 years. Simply put you dont get better once you are over 40 and some fall off far before 40.


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## wafb (May 8, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Let me first say that I have no source that this is just my own opinion. I like Randy and respect his skills and in no way am I bashing him or trying to ruin his legacy.
> 
> Randy Couture is 45 years old. In Combat sports that is usally 5 years too old to be compteing at any level, let alone being champion at the highest level. With all this talk about Roger Clemens going on right now about how he has gotten better with age, how can we not look at out own sport and our current poster boy Randy Couture. Whether you believe it or not, HGH is the most commonly used performance enhancer in pro sports today. Its naive to think that MMA fighters arent using it as well. If your Randy and you dont want to retire the way he did, why wouldnt you take it. Tons have medical research has been done that has been shown to help older ahtletes regain their once dominant form and even make them better than they ever were. It happened to Clemens, Bonds, and now it is happening Randy. Am I jumping to conclusions?? Possibly, but I dont think so. I small side eefect of HGH is that the abdominal region of the athlete pertrudes outward. Look in bodybuilders and pro wrestlers, they have ripped abs but their stomach kind of sticks out. That is a sign of HGH. Not to metnion it actually increases the size of your face and head. If you look at Randy you can see the bulge in his stomach that I speak of. I could be grasping at straws here but think about it with an open mind. Chuck Liddell KO's him twice, Randy retires. than he comes back after a year of not fighting anyone comes back and DESTROYS two very big, very strong, and very talented fighters. I just find is odd that he comes out of retirement at 44,45 and is better than he ever was. Something isnt right. Where there is smoke there is usually fire. Look at Bonds look at Clemens



The reason bodybuilders have their stomachs hanging out is not because of HGH alone, they also use slin which complements GH and helps increase the ability to grow. Slin when abused increases helps transport the carbs from their massive caloric intake and convert it to glycogen and transport it to the liver, pancreas and then to your muscles. It's possible Randy is using GH, but he could also possible that it could be MGF, IGF or GH FRAG 167-171 who knows.:dunno:


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## flourhead (Jul 12, 2006)

from all the old people ive talked to, everyone of them has said the same thing about their health: once they hit 40, everything went downhill as far as physical abilities


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## Breadfan (Jan 3, 2008)

I pay him to fight. I give him money, he fights. i don't care if he uses that money on HGH, MGF, IGF, PCP, LSD, OPP whatever he wants.

As long as he's not Nailing my gf I don't care. and if he is... i won't be doing much about it.


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## thevarsmolta (Oct 16, 2006)

I'd like to read all that...but I won't.

I don't think Randy is on HGH, and even if he was, it's not banned in MMA.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Let me first say that I have no source that this is just my own opinion. I like Randy and respect his skills and in no way am I bashing him or trying to ruin his legacy.
> 
> Randy Couture is 45 years old. In Combat sports that is usally 5 years too old to be compteing at any level, let alone being champion at the highest level. With all this talk about Roger Clemens going on right now about how he has gotten better with age, how can we not look at out own sport and our current poster boy Randy Couture. Whether you believe it or not, HGH is the most commonly used performance enhancer in pro sports today. Its naive to think that MMA fighters arent using it as well. If your Randy and you dont want to retire the way he did, why wouldnt you take it. Tons have medical research has been done that has been shown to help older ahtletes regain their once dominant form and even make them better than they ever were. It happened to Clemens, Bonds, and now it is happening Randy. Am I jumping to conclusions?? Possibly, but I dont think so. I small side eefect of HGH is that the abdominal region of the athlete pertrudes outward. Look in bodybuilders and pro wrestlers, they have ripped abs but their stomach kind of sticks out. That is a sign of HGH. Not to metnion it actually increases the size of your face and head. If you look at Randy you can see the bulge in his stomach that I speak of. I could be grasping at straws here but think about it with an open mind. Chuck Liddell KO's him twice, Randy retires. than he comes back after a year of not fighting anyone comes back and DESTROYS two very big, very strong, and very talented fighters. I just find is odd that he comes out of retirement at 44,45 and is better than he ever was. Something isnt right. Where there is smoke there is usually fire. Look at Bonds look at Clemens


 I think you're missing another possibility. Both leprechauns and genies grant wishes. I'm not accusing Couture, but it seems likely that he either went to the land of Ire or Iran and made a deal to decision an injured Sylvia and defeat an unproven Gonzaga. Something isn't right. Where there's smoke, there is usually fire. In this case, it's flaming leprechauns and red hot genies. Let's throw a unicorn in there, too.


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## AstroBouncer (Jan 4, 2007)

On the Fight Science MMA show they tested Randy's lactic acid levels before any exercise and then after he had been holding a gullotine choke for over a minute. The result? His muscle's lactic acid levels were less then they had been at rest, which the doctors couldnt explain and they were dumbfounded. My conclusion: Randys not human.


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## Gallows (Oct 16, 2006)

Breadfan said:


> I pay him to fight. I give him money, he fights. i don't care if he uses that money on HGH, MGF, IGF, PCP, LSD, OPP whatever he wants.
> 
> As long as he's not Nailing my gf I don't care. and if he is... i won't be doing much about it.



LOL! That gave me a good laugh. Of course if he is using, his liver or kidneys or something vital will just shut down. Oh well. Repped for the good laugh.


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## hollando (Apr 11, 2007)

i wouldnt be shocked by this

plenty of athletes have admitted to using HGH....and i remember rogan commmenting on randy and hormone replacement therapy....although nothing ever developed from it

and if im not mistaken wasnt brock lesnar caught recieving shipments of HGH back in the day?


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## rogi (Aug 26, 2007)

there are many cases of people who are outside the norm and they use it to their advantage. The perfect example is Lance Armstrong. He's really a freak if you think about it, but it benefits him in Cycling. 

I think is probably the same with Randy.


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## Sterling (Dec 14, 2006)

I give him the benefit of the dought. I think the baseball drama should stire up more than just ledgends.


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## UraRenge (Jun 24, 2007)

"I think you're missing another possibility. Both leprechauns and genies grant wishes. I'm not accusing Couture, but it seems likely that he either went to the land of Ire or Iran and made a deal to decision an injured Sylvia and defeat an unproven Gonzaga. Something isn't right. Where there's *smoke*, there is usually fire. In this case, it's flaming leprechauns and red hot genies. Let's throw a leprechaun in there, too."

I have no damn clue what the hell you said. I am sorry if I'm comming off as a troll or whatever but I really don't know what you're trying to say. You go from genies and leprechauns, to burning them in a fire, and somewhere in between you throw in Iran. But anyways on the subject, I'm not sure if he was/is on HGH but it is very well possible that he was. He did get much stronger than he was at age 42 from when he was in his late forties, and that's something really suspicious to me. On the other hand though, maybe he really does have good diet and workout plan. I know my dad used to say he was his strongest in his early to mid 40s so I don't know.


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## Mc19 (Jul 6, 2006)

I've brought this up before and everyone was skeptical, i still say hes had a little extra help. but yes hes innocent until proven guilty.


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## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

I would really like to believe that he is just a freak of nature instead of a user. His body has held up too well to be using though, he's hasn't had really odd muscle tears in the past (I think) that would lead anyone to believe that he has been using. Good thought but I'm going to go with my gut and believe that he is very disciplined and is unique.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

hollando said:


> and if im not mistaken wasnt brock lesnar caught recieving shipments of HGH back in the day?


 Lesnar was arrested for taking possession of a box that was believed to contain illegal steroids. The charges were later dropped when the lab results came back negative for any controlled substances.

The police never revealed why they believed steroids were in the box or how they were informed.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

AstroBouncer said:


> On the Fight Science MMA show they tested Randy's lactic acid levels before any exercise and then after he had been holding a gullotine choke for over a minute. The result? His muscle's lactic acid levels were less then they had been at rest, which the doctors couldnt explain and they were dumbfounded. My conclusion: Randys not human.


Or he is more comfortable when fighting.

But maybe Randy is on HGH who knows. It would explain why he was able to maintain his high performance at his age. Training hard and having a good work ethic help, but you still can't beat getting older. Hell, Stallone says he takes HGH, so why not Randy. Would it not benifit him to take it? Its not a banned substance in MMA to my knowledge, so for anyone to say he isn't taking it without knowing is pretty ignorant.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

UraRenge said:


> I have no damn clue what the hell you said. I am sorry if I'm comming off as a troll or whatever but I really don't know what you're trying to say. You go from genies and leprechauns, to burning them in a fire, and somewhere in between you throw in Iran.


 Well, genie is the English word for an Arab mythical being that in some stories, grants wishes. Being that a large % of the people of Iran are descendants of this culture and that Iran has a similar sound as 'Ireland,' (remember the leprechauns?) I chose to pair those two countries. They were on fire because of the smoke/fire reference from the post I was quoting. Satirical humor takes hard work and strategy.

As for my overall point, Randy Couture performs at a level above most people his age. Based on the evidence we have, that performance can be attributed to anything we like, from HGH to leprechauns and genies. We could also attribute it to hard work, strategy (I bet Couture is hilarious), and a late start to the sport of MMA, if we wanted to.


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## Green Scape (Nov 15, 2006)

Randy is an intelligent guy.

This is pretty primitive seeing as I don't know much about this junk, but snag an image of Randy at each weigh-in. That's a solid 13 chronological pix to check out any abnormalties image to image for your own sake. Keep in mind his weight changes and time of layoffs when you're looking at the line-up, you might wanna show that info underneath while you make the judgement for yourself.


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## VALLEYS (Dec 28, 2007)

Wake Up People, The Man Is Clearly Taking Growth!


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> I would not be surprised at all if Randy was using HGH or steroids. However, everyone is innocent until proven guilty, so I'm still a believer that he just diets correctly, has a very good work ethic, and is an intelligent person. Thinking that your favorite MMA athlete hasn't used roids or HGH in his life/career is naive though, imo, and I bet the majority of top guys have all done it.


Agreed. Plenty of UFC fighters have used at some point in their career and to think otherwise is naive. This bit with Randy has been brought up multiple times: head size, big jaw, bulging abdomen...and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it was true. 

That being said, we'll probably never know.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

The age argument would generally hold true for most people, but it is very relative.. it all depends on how you've treated your body over the years. For the average american diet and lifestyle, yes, your body will deteriorate before 40. But if you've done all those long term things that are good and healthy for your body, they DO pay off.. I know guys that are 50 and can outrace me in marathons, and I'm a very athletic 24. There's this old chinese guy I know that does everything by himself at age 90, and has no real joint pains or major health problems. Randy has always claimed to have treated his body well (besides getting it smashed around every 3 months  ) as far as nutrition, lifestyle and all that goes, so it could very well be a product of that. Add to that good genetics, and its even more plausible. Not to mention he is a tremendously hard worker. This isn't just something new and sudden after his comeback.. people were wondering the same thing about his shape at 40, when he outmuscled and out-cardio'ed the cardio king tito. And Vitor back in the day. Randy has always surprised people since the beginning of his career, it's not some sudden performance change. He was just as ripped and in shape for the Liddell fights, it's just that Chuck has bricks for hands and the last 2 times he fought smart.

What I'm saying is, I don't think Randy's on HGH or any roids. Supplements for sure, but probably not anything more.. this isn't just fanboy wishful thinking either; usually I'm the first person on this forum to be suspicious about juicing mma guys. I have plenty of neg reps to show for bringing up the same question with a lot of the PRIDE guys, considering the massive difference in their physiques and performance from an organization that didn't test at all to one that does. The biggest reason against Randy is Randy's personality. He clearly doesn't show high roid related aggression levels which is the most powerful side effect of HGH. I know it's only listed as a "possible" side effect, but every known HGH abuser shows an aggressive demeanor at the very least.. Randy is the calmest and most respectful guy in the sport. And he has displayed way too much ethics in everything else for me to jump to conclusions here. Now someone brought up Brock Lesnar.. THAT I can easily believe.


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

stallone came out recently, in an interview about Rambo, in which he praised HGH. saying there's nothing wrong with it, and that he couldn't have gotten into shape for Rocky VI or Rambo without it. he said in a few years, it'll be perfectly legal!

technically, it isn't a steroid. it's only a naturally occuring chemical found in the body. as you age, you don't make it anymore. how is that worse than petty women and men injecting bochelism into their faces to stay young?


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## mercom (Jun 16, 2007)

so you think stallone saying he couldnt gotten into shape for rambo without it doesnt mean that randy couldnt fight anymore without it? that is cheating, for the record i dont think randy is on it but w/e i just thought your analogy using STALLONE was rediculous


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## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

you make some very good points and there is a chance that he could be on it but it doesn't matter b/c it is not illegal in mma.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

pt447 said:


> stallone came out recently, in an interview about Rambo, in which he praised HGH. saying there's nothing wrong with it, and that he couldn't have gotten into shape for Rocky VI or Rambo without it. he said in a few years, it'll be perfectly legal!
> 
> technically, it isn't a steroid. it's only a naturally occuring chemical found in the body. as you age, you don't make it anymore. how is that worse than petty women and men injecting bochelism into their faces to stay young?


That's stupid, do your research.. almost every known steroid, anabolic or otherwise, is naturally found in the body in small quantities including nandrolone (the one that Sherk got caught on), testosterone etc . That doesn't make it right, healthy or legal to supplement them artificially .. there's a reason they're only found in small quantities in your body. You think your body's too stupid or lazy to make 2 ounces of something that it's making an ounce of already? The reason they're only present in small quantities is because large quantities of them are unsustainable in the long run and heavily damaging to the body. 

And if Stallone used it, he's a moron, since when did hollywood celebrities know what's best for their bodies? They're the third worst group of people to look to in terms of a healthy lifestyle, after 500lb fat guys and heroin junkie Rock Stars. Heath Ledger, god rest his soul, ODd on drugs last week at 28 years old, half of hollywood does blow for breakfast and botox for a facial. Yes, botox (botulism) is bad for your skin too .. those celebrities with picture perfect botox skins will look hideous if they miss a single treatment because they are literally poisoning their skin to stiffen it. And the face gets stiffer and stiffer the more they use it.. after a certain point they can't even smile right. It's not illegal because it not as bad, but to make a comparison with it to argue for the case of legal HGH is stupid. People that use these things are always making the argument that it's natural and normal.. it's not, and never will be.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Im not saying anything is wrong with it. Im just coming up with logical reason why he is the only 45 year old man compteting in this sport at such a high level. I just think its a little odd that Bonds and Clemens who are about the same age as Randy are going through the same exact type of thing. Both were past their prime and suddenly revitalized their careers and became better than they ever were. And we now know why that happened, they were on the growth. 

You guys are right, we will probably never know. But if Randy IS on it, what about his boy Forrest?? Is it me or does Forrest look MUCH bigger and much stronger than he was on TUF??


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## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

jdun11 said:


> Let me first say that I have no source that this is just my own opinion. I like Randy and respect his skills and in no way am I bashing him or trying to ruin his legacy.
> 
> Randy Couture is 45 years old. In Combat sports that is usally 5 years too old to be compteing at any level, let alone being champion at the highest level. With all this talk about Roger Clemens going on right now about how he has gotten better with age, how can we not look at out own sport and our current poster boy Randy Couture. Whether you believe it or not, HGH is the most commonly used performance enhancer in pro sports today. Its naive to think that MMA fighters arent using it as well. If your Randy and you dont want to retire the way he did, why wouldnt you take it. Tons have medical research has been done that has been shown to help older ahtletes regain their once dominant form and even make them better than they ever were. It happened to Clemens, Bonds, and now it is happening Randy. Am I jumping to conclusions?? Possibly, but I dont think so. I small side eefect of HGH is that the abdominal region of the athlete pertrudes outward. Look in bodybuilders and pro wrestlers, they have ripped abs but their stomach kind of sticks out. That is a sign of HGH. Not to metnion it actually increases the size of your face and head. If you look at Randy you can see the bulge in his stomach that I speak of. I could be grasping at straws here but think about it with an open mind. Chuck Liddell KO's him twice, Randy retires. than he comes back after a year of not fighting anyone comes back and DESTROYS two very big, very strong, and very talented fighters. I just find is odd that he comes out of retirement at 44,45 and is better than he ever was. Something isnt right. Where there is smoke there is usually fire. Look at Bonds look at Clemens


Just because someone is in their 40s doesn't mean they can't compete. Jerry Rice competed in the NFL until his 40s, George Foreman won the heavyweight title in his 40s, Brett Favre just had an MVP-caliber season at 38 (Probably would have been if not for Brady and the Pats). 

Big stomachs really don't mean much either. Some people can be totally ripped and have no body fat but simply still have large abdominal muscles. Genetics is the biggest factor in that IMO.

You can be suspicious about how good Randy looks in the cage but look at the fighters' styles as well. Yes Gonzaga and Sylvia are big, strong and talented. They're also much slower and they're realtively unskilled at pure wrestling, which is Randy's specialty. It was Randy employing his A game against 2 guys who use wrestling probably as a C or D game.

Sylvia had no clue how to defend Randy's takedowns (the height difference actually gave Randy even more of a leverage advantage in that fight). Go back and watch the fight again; round 3 was pure striking and Randy still got the better of it. HGH made his hands faster too I suppose, huh?! :confused05: Gonzaga looked like a lost dog when Randy had him up against the cage standing in the clinch. Werdum also exploited that same weakness against Gonzaga: standing - OK, ground - OK, in the clinch - destroyed with knees. 

Drugs or not, Randy won those fights because he executed a gameplan that exploited holes in his opponents' games and I think that deserves respect and to accuse him of something with no real evidence disrespects him. I'll give Randy the benefit of the doubt until some actual evidence comes along.


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## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

jdun11 said:


> Im not saying anything is wrong with it. Im just coming up with logical reason why he is the only 45 year old man compteting in this sport at such a high level. I just think its a little odd that Bonds and Clemens who are about the same age as Randy are going through the same exact type of thing. Both were past their prime and suddenly revitalized their careers and became better than they ever were. And we now know why that happened, they were on the growth.
> 
> You guys are right, we will probably never know. But if Randy IS on it, what about his boy Forrest?? Is it me or does Forrest look MUCH bigger and much stronger than he was on TUF??


There are alot of FDA approved supplements and protein formulas that aren't on any banned lists that when used in conjunction with working your ass off on a daily basis over a period of a few years will result in weight/muscle gain - yes even in a person's 40s. 

Until I see a positive test (i.e. Sherk) or hear someone say "I gave Randy..." (i.e. Clemens, Bonds) I'm not accusing anyone of anything.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

SonofJor-El said:


> There are alot of FDA approved supplements and protein formulas that aren't on any banned lists that when used in conjunction with working your ass off on a daily basis over a period of a few years will result in weight/muscle gain - yes even in a person's 40s.
> 
> Until I see a positive test (i.e. Sherk) or hear someone say "I gave Randy..." (i.e. Clemens, Bonds) I'm not accusing anyone of anything.


Ok, so why is he the only 45 year old guy competing in the UFC?? Not just competing, he DESTROYED Sylvia and GG. Both are top 10 fighters and have never been beaten like that. If its just hard work and diet, wouldnt Bas, Royce, Shammy still be in the UFC?? Or are you saying that those guys are stupid and dont know how to take care of themselves like Randy??


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## wafb (May 8, 2007)

jasvll said:


> Lesnar was arrested for taking possession of a box that was believed to contain illegal steroids. The charges were later dropped when the lab results came back negative for any controlled substances.
> 
> The police never revealed why they believed steroids were in the box or how they were informed.


It was probably a controlled delivery, thinking it was a large cache of GH and when they tested it, it turned out to be only hcg. Whoever ordered that box got scammed by his source.:thumb02:


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## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

jdun11 said:


> Ok, so why is he the only 45 year old guy competing in the UFC??


Because the HW division SUCKS and he saw that.



> Not just competing, he DESTROYED Sylvia and GG. Both are top 10 fighters and have never been beaten like that.


In my reply you quoted I had 2 full paragraphs on the styles of those fights and why they worked out for Randy. Did you read it or are you blind to any differing opinion?



> If its just hard work and diet, wouldnt Bas, Royce, Shammy still be in the UFC?? Or are you saying that those guys are stupid and dont know how to take care of themselves like Randy??


I thought this was a discussion of Randy Couture. I didn't realize that by replying I'd also have to defend every fighter over 40. By defending Randy you think I'm calling other fighters "stupid"? :confused03:

I think this thread is pretty clear: jdun11 = troll. Goodbye.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

SonofJor-El said:


> Because the HW division SUCKS and he saw that.


He asked why Randy is the only 45 yeard old guy competing in the UFC, not just at HW. Can you answer how he has maintained his body over the years? Because I don't care who you are, as your body gets older it breaks down.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

pt447 said:


> stallone came out recently, in an interview about Rambo, in which he praised HGH. saying there's nothing wrong with it, and that he couldn't have gotten into shape for Rocky VI or Rambo without it. he said in a few years, it'll be perfectly legal!
> 
> technically, it isn't a steroid. it's only a naturally occuring chemical found in the body. as you age, you don't make it anymore. *how is that worse than petty women and men injecting bochelism into their faces to stay young?*


Because a facelift or a boob job helps you look better. HGH helps you look and PERFORM better. It enhances performance, helps you get in better shape than you could without it and is, therefore, a performance enhancer. 

The use of HGH in older people who want to stay young is fine by me if prescribed by a doctor and whatnot, but in the sports realm, it is and should stay an illegal performance enhancer.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

For people who don't know exactly what HGH is read this.



> Throughout recorded history, man has sought after the fountain of youth. Though we are still on that quest, the time has come that we understand many aging processes and how to control them. We know about the destructive effects of free radicals on our cells, and the importance of antioxidants in neutralizing this damage. Genetic research is unveiling DNA codes that predetermine our ability to rid our bodies of toxic compounds from our environment that may promote the growth of cancer. The most widely recognized and addressable influence on aging is the decline of hormone production that begins in the mid-thirties. We are familiar with the replacement of estrogen and progesterone in menopausal women, while recently testosterone replacement for men and women has become more widely accepted. Physicians are finding that when a wider array of hormones is replaced, patients attain much greater results than with any single hormone and, in some cases, one may protect against the side effects of another.
> 
> While the use of hormone replacement has advanced the field of anti-aging medicine, in common practice it is flawed.
> We need to question the ethics of using synthetic hormones as replacement rather than the natural ones that are cheaper, safer, and recognized by the body. Beyond that, we need to question what other anti-aging hormones are available, and if they too are declining, what advantages are there in replacing them to youthful levels?
> ...


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Ok, so why is he the only 45 year old guy competing in the UFC??


 Um, because everyone else is younger? What do I win?


> Not just competing, he DESTROYED Sylvia and GG. Both are top 10 fighters and have never been beaten like that. If its just hard work and diet, wouldnt Bas, Royce, Shammy still be in the UFC?? Or are you saying that those guys are stupid and dont know how to take care of themselves like Randy??


 Rutten's knees are shot. Shamrock's shoulder was shot (he's on the comeback trail now), and Royce was never that good by today's standards. Also note that these 3 were competing very early on and in some cases before the first UFC. Couture didn't start competing in MMA until '97. His MMA career has been much shorter.


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## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

mlsman23 said:


> He asked why Randy is the only 45 yeard old guy competing in the UFC, not just at HW.


Because the HW division sucks and the other divisions don't. If the 170# division was lousy I'm sure Royce would be making another run. :thumb02:



> Can you answer how he has maintained his body over the years?


Can you prove he took anything illegal or banned to maintain his body over the years? 

What was that?

It sounded a lot like a "No" but I couldn't quite make it out.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

SonofJor-El said:


> Because the HW division sucks and the other divisions don't. If the 170# division was lousy I'm sure Royce would be making another run. :thumb02:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can you prove he didn't? Read my post of what HGH is and see if it fits Randy. I didn't say he took it, but I said I wouldn't be suprised if he was on it? So how do you explain him defying getting older. Again I'll state it, it doesn't matter who you are, your body breaks down over age and since you don't know what hgh is, I'll help you.

GH is produced in your body naturally, you peak at the production in your 20's, then it starts to go down in your 30's. If you take HGH its like turning back the hands of time. Thus making your body like it was when you were younger. But your right, Randy wouldn't need to do that. :confused03:


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## mercom (Jun 16, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Ok, so why is he the only 45 year old guy competing in the UFC?? Not just competing, he DESTROYED Sylvia and GG. Both are top 10 fighters and have never been beaten like that. If its just hard work and diet, wouldnt Bas, Royce, Shammy still be in the UFC?? Or are you saying that those guys are stupid and dont know how to take care of themselves like Randy??


to be fair bas has been known to party , also royce is pretty much one dimensional thats why hes not still going and shamrock has taken so much damage hes washed up (btw he is still fighting with EliteXC). another thing to consider is randy had a late start in the game because of being in the military, along with having a wrestling style that can save his body from taking the beating of a striker.


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## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

mlsman23 said:


> Can you prove he didn't?


WOW! I thought we lived in America where you were innocent until proven guilty? I thought our justice system was such that the burden of proof was on the prosecution? 

So let me get this straight, you throw out a wild accusation with no evidence and it's up to the accused and supporters to prove innocence?! Are you posting from communist China or a former Soviet republic by any chance? :confused03:

Heil Fuhrer mlsman23! :confused03:

I'm done with this thread.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

SonofJor-El said:


> WOW! I thought we lived in America where you were innocent until proven guilty? I thought our justice system was such that the burden of proof was on the prosecution?
> 
> So let me get this straight, you throw out a wild accusation with no evidence and it's up to the accused and supporters to prove innocence?! Are you posting from communist China or a former Soviet republic by any chance? :confused03:
> 
> ...


Wow, I wasn't the one who started the thread and if you read what I posted I didn't say he is on it, but it wouldn't suprise me if he was. But I like how you don't try to argue what HGH does for you and how it benifts you. Because then you might actually have to see that it is a possibility that Randy could be using.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Not to metnion it actually increases the size of your face and head.


well well the plot thickens :thumb02:


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

SonofJor-El said:


> Because the HW division SUCKS and he saw that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ahahaah, Im a troll??? Im probably the first member to ever be on the this forum. Ive been a Mod on this sight and I think Im pretty respected on here. But yet some clown with 40 posts calls me a trol ahahahah funny stuff. Ive probably been watching MMA longer than youve been alive, so show some respect son.


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## Wesley (Oct 31, 2006)

I wouldn't be surprised if Randy used them. I'm under the same attitude that your innocent until proven guilty. Randy is in phenomenal shape and has been for most of his life I'm sure. I remember hearing that he doesn't have "Off season" where he lets himself go when he's not fighting. Not sure if him doing that has helped his aging and ability to stay competitive or not. The question I'm sure will be there but personally I don't think he does.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Im not saying Randy is 100& using HGH. But if you look at things with an open mind, you could see its a strong posiblity.



mercom said:


> to be fair bas has been known to party , also royce is pretty much one dimensional thats why hes not still going and shamrock has taken so much damage hes washed up (btw he is still fighting with EliteXC). another thing to consider is randy had a late start in the game because of being in the military, along with having a wrestling style that can save his body from taking the beating of a striker.


I was just throwing names out off the top of my head. Whether the HW division is thin or not, Randy is the only 45 year old guy dominating the sport right now. Its just fishy to me.


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## Wesley (Oct 31, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Im not saying Randy is 100& using HGH. But if you look at things with an open mind, you could see its a strong posiblity.


Yeah I totally agree with you. I just hope he isn't! haha I like to believe I live in a fairy tale world that all my mma fighters are fair and don't do anything wrong :thumb02:.


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## res0kkw (Feb 26, 2007)

I think he is .

I dont care though cant blame him if he has.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

IMHO I think it is more likely true that he is than he isn't. But I can totally understand if people disagree with me about that. It's all just opinions anyway. Randy fits the description IMO, every time I see him the first thing I notice is that neanderthal-like forehead and square jaw of his, oh and I never noticed the belly till I read this thread. But his forehead and shit ALWAYS catch my attention as soon as I see him.


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## gm2685 (Aug 27, 2006)

I wouldn't be surprised if he, and many other fighters (including GSP) were using it. And that's not just in MMA, but in football, basketball and many other sports. Supposedly there are many ways to get around the drug testing.


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## DropKick (Apr 19, 2007)

I'd be willing to bet that most, if not all top fighters are doing it or have done it. This is a professional sport where there is a lot of money to be made. As we see by the payouts from every UFC event, it's only the top guys that are making a lot of money, not including endorsements of course. Professional athletes are super competitive people and will always try to find that edge. If it's not something that is tested for or detectable by current tests it will be done. It's naive to think otherwise. I mean, there is steriod testing now and a lot of guys are still failing that.


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## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

jdun11 said:


> Ahahaah, Im a troll??? Im probably the first member to ever be on the this forum. Ive been a Mod on this sight and I think Im pretty respected on here. But yet some clown with 40 posts calls me a trol ahahahah funny stuff. Ive probably been watching MMA longer than youve been alive, so show some respect son.


So I should "respect" your baseless, slanderous accusations against a fighter because: you're old, you used to be a Mod for a web site, and you've been posting longer than me??? :sarcastic01:

Whatever. :sarcastic12::sarcastic09:


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

SonofJor-El said:


> So I should "respect" your baseless, slanderous accusations against a fighter because: you're old, you used to be a Mod for a web site, and you've been posting longer than me??? :sarcastic01:
> 
> Whatever. :sarcastic12::sarcastic09:


In the same respect, isn't your argument baseless as well. I mean do you know Randy personally? How do you know he isn't on HGH? And why is your opinion more valid then other people's?


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

mlsman23 said:


> In the same respect, isn't your argument baseless as well. I mean do you know Randy personally? How do you know he isn't on HGH? And why is your opinion more valid then other people's?


 Let's see one claim takes a man at his word, the other calls him a liar, and you're suggesting that each claim is on equal footing? You don't think one has a heavier burden of proof on it than the other?

By the way, I think you're a kitten murdering, drug pedaling, tax cheat. I don't have any evidence, but you've got to admit, it's a strong possibility.


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## Cartheron (Sep 5, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Ahahaah, Im a troll??? Im probably the first member to ever be on the this forum. Ive been a Mod on this sight and I think Im pretty respected on here. But yet some clown with 40 posts calls me a trol ahahahah funny stuff. Ive probably been watching MMA longer than youve been alive, so show some respect son.


*Tactical Trolls*: This is where the troller takes the game more seriously, creates a credible persona to gain confidence of others, and provokes strife in a subtle and invidious way.

*Strategic Trolls*: A very serious form of game, involving the production of an overall strategy that can take months or years to develop. It can also involve a number of people acting together in order to invade a list.

You could still be a troll. ;p [/offtopic]


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

jasvll said:


> Let's see one claim takes a man at his word, the other calls him a liar, and you're suggesting that each claim is on equal footing? You don't think one has a heavier burden of proof on it than the other?
> 
> By the way, I think you're a kitten murdering, drug pedaling, tax cheat. I don't have any evidence, but you've got to admit, it's a strong possibility.


Good point, but people do occasionally lie to make themselves not look bad or to protect themselves. How do we know that''s not what Randy is doing. Again Im not saying Randy is using it, but to dismiss it because you don't think its true or because he says he isn't is pretty niave. Do you take what everyone says as the truth?


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## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

mlsman23 said:


> In the same respect, isn't your argument baseless as well. I mean do you know Randy personally? How do you know he isn't on HGH? And why is your opinion more valid then other people's?


There's no evidence to support Randy being on HGH or any other drug so I have the law on my side. 

Also, the original poster keeps asking how else is it possible for a 45 year old to compete. Training has been mentioned, taking care of his body has been mentioned, his relative late start in MMA has been mentioned, legal supplements have been mentioned, the weak state of the HW division has been mentioned, other athletes being competitive at in their 40s have been mentioned, GG and Tim weaknesses matching up with Randy style-wise has been mentioned...

Yet the poster hasn't conceded any of those points and keeps going on and on and on with this conspiracy theory. I probably shouldn't be getting as upset as I am but I am a firm believer in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and being innocent until proven guilty. 

But at this point.. whatever.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

SonofJor-El said:


> There's no evidence to support Randy being on HGH or any other drug so I have the law on my side.


Ok, there is a test for HGH but none of the commissions use it, so of course he has never tested positive for it. That doesn't necessarily mean he is not on it. So hypothetically, why would he take a drug that you will be tested for? Why not use one that isn't tested for?


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## MetalMunkey (Oct 14, 2006)

jasvll said:


> Let's see one claim takes a man at his word, the other calls him a liar, and you're suggesting that each claim is on equal footing? You don't think one has a heavier burden of proof on it than the other?
> 
> By the way, I think you're a kitten murdering, drug pedaling, tax cheat. I don't have any evidence, but you've got to admit, it's a strong possibility.


Yeah, but he wasn't really accusing him, he simply said it's likely. It's all speculation, and will probably always be.


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## GodlyMoose (May 20, 2007)

DropKick said:


> I'd be willing to bet that most, if not all top fighters are doing it or have done it. This is a professional sport where there is a lot of money to be made. As we see by the payouts from every UFC event, it's only the top guys that are making a lot of money, not including endorsements of course. Professional athletes are super competitive people and will always try to find that edge. If it's not something that is tested for or detectable by current tests it will be done. It's naive to think otherwise. I mean, there is steriod testing now and a lot of guys are still failing that.


With regards to that in 2001, Lesnar was arrested for receiving a "large amount of steroids". The charges were later dropped when it was discovered that the illicit substance was, in fact, growth hormone.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

mlsman23 said:


> Good point, but people do occasionally lie to make themselves not look bad or to protect themselves. How do we know that''s not what Randy is doing. Again Im not saying Randy is using it, but to dismiss it because you don't think its true or because he says he isn't is pretty niave. Do you take what everyone says as the truth?


 You'll notice I have yet to call Couture innocent or guilty. There's a reason for that.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

GodlyMoose said:


> With regards to that in 2001, Lesnar was arrested for receiving a "large amount of steroids". The charges were later dropped when it was discovered that the illicit substance was, in fact, growth hormone.


 That's not quite right. An anonymous source from the police dept. (not a lab technician) when asked what it was, said it was 'some kind of growth hormone.' The substance wasn't officially anything and Lesnar officially took possession of nothing illegal.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

MetalMunkey said:


> Yeah, but he wasn't really accusing him, he simply said it's likely. It's all speculation, and will probably always be.


 But why is it likely? If you can diagnose HGH users just by looking at their bellys, why is there any doubt who's using, and why aren't the commission's employing this technique? Is anyone who's exceptional likely to be a cheater or is it just the ones we decide to start threads about? 

This thread has no other purpose than to cast a shadow of doubt where there was none. 'Randy on HGH?' Talk about loaded questions.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

mlsman23 said:


> Since you don't know what hgh is, I'll help you.
> 
> GH is produced in your body naturally, you peak at the production in your 20's, then it starts to go down in your 30's. If you take HGH its like turning back the hands of time. Thus making your body like it was when you were younger. But your right, Randy wouldn't need to do that. :confused03:


Thats why I think its likely he is on HGH. I posted what HGH really is (kind of long) but if you read it, alot of that would point to why Randy is having so much success at an age where most people's body is in the process of breaking down.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

mlsman23 said:


> Thats why I think its likely he is on HGH. I posted what HGH really is (kind of long) but if you read it, alot of that would point to why Randy is having so much success at an age where most people's body is in the process of breaking down.


 Yes, but proper diet and exercise each have been shown to significantly slow down the aging process. It's 'likely' that Couture eats right and works out.

And I think it's important to repeat that Couture is not a drastically better fighter now than he was years ago. He was dominating at light heavyweight before he ran into Liddell and won against Van Arsdale in between those two fights. He retired for less than a year and decisioned an injured Tim Sylvia and defended against an unproven Gonzaga, who looks to have been exposed by Couture and now Werdum. What's so amazing about that that we have to find alternative explanations for his performance? He has a slow, methodical, and strategic style that is tailor-made to someone who is aging but has a wealth of experience.

It will always be possible that any given person is cheating at any given endeavor, but I would think accusing someone should be a last resort, based on more than the fact that they're getting older or that they have a thick mid-section.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

jasvll said:


> Yes, but proper diet and exercise each have been shown to significantly slow down the aging process. It's 'likely' that Couture eats right and works out.


True, but which one works better and quicker, the HGH or a proper diet and excercise? HGH will, and a proper diet and excercise also help the HGH work better when you take it.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

mlsman23 said:


> True, but which one works better and quicker, the HGH or a proper diet and excercise? HGH will, and a proper diet and excercise also help the HGH work better when you take it.


Yes, but which one is not a violation of the rules Couture agreed to abide by?

And there was much more to that post than you chose to address.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

jasvll said:


> Yes, but which one is not a violation of the rules Couture agreed to abide by?
> 
> And there was much more to that post than you chose to address.


HGH is not on the list of banned substances as far as i know. They also don't test for it, so he could take it and not be getting caught.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

So when he was fighting at HW, he had trouble with guys that were bigger than him. But now as he has gotten older, he can now handle them? He does have great fight plans, but what was the difference between when he was losing to bigger HW to now, where he can handle them. Randy has always had great fight plans so that hasn't changed. But something has and thats why I think people are looking for a reason to why he is winning now.


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## wallysworld191 (Mar 28, 2007)

Probably.


lost his hair (could be natural...lol no pun intended.)

but his abs got bigger....kinda odd

maybe not hgh, but definitely hormone replacement therapy, which is what keeps him young.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

Anyone have any pictures of before/after? 

Or from like years ago and recent?


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## Bebop (Aug 15, 2006)

I think we're on to something --> If it looks like a 'fish', smells like a 'fish' and tastes like a 'fish', then it's probably a ______.

There a several signs that point out Randy is/was on something (HGH seems to be the consensus). It's hard to say that there's "no" evidence - what do you need? pics of Randy shooting? After all, HGH isn't detectable. Try not be so ignorant to the idea that Randy is probably on something. 

Also, a common argument on here for why Randy is doing so well is: "He trains super hard and diets well". If this is all it is... Why don't other aging athletes give this "new" idea a try??! 

I love Randy as much as the next guy... But come on.


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## undertow503 (Nov 19, 2006)

AstroBouncer said:


> On the Fight Science MMA show they tested Randy's lactic acid levels before any exercise and then after he had been holding a gullotine choke for over a minute. The result? His muscle's lactic acid levels were less then they had been at rest, which the doctors couldnt explain and they were dumbfounded. My conclusion: Randys not human.


Agreed! Randy is superhuman!

Repped


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

As a huge baseball fan, I said the same thing about Clemens back in 2003 and 2004. I was met with the same remarks you were. Now I gues I was right, but no one really remembers me saying that so nothing ever really came of it. 

I think we have to look at almost every athlete nowadays with a guilty until proven innocent attitude. It is just too hard to trust them anymore. I hate saying that, but so many have been proven to be using that they have ruined it for those that aren't, if indeed they still exist. I miss the days where our athletes smoked cigarettes and drank coffee at halftime and brought liquor bottles instead of gatorade (j/k).


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Bebop said:


> I think we're on to something --> If it looks like a 'fish', smells like a 'fish' and tastes like a 'fish', then it's probably a ______.
> 
> 
> 
> > Ooooh, I know...is it chicken?


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

jasvll said:


> Lesnar was arrested for taking possession of a box that was believed to contain illegal steroids. The charges were later dropped when the lab results came back negative for any controlled substances.
> 
> The police never revealed why they believed steroids were in the box or how they were informed.


According to a Lousville detective, there were a "growth hormone". http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/lesnarmug1.html


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

HexRei said:


> According to a Lousville detective, there were a "growth hormone". http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/lesnarmug1.html


looks like he bleached his eyebrows


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## capt_america (Apr 16, 2007)

Shoguns_nuts said:


> Randy is very disciplined. His diet and work ethic are second to none, maybe he just has good genetics?..


LOL..this sounds like Joe Rogan..


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I will say this, regarding the topic. If it were anyone other than Randy Couture I would agree with you, but this man has been an elite athlete his entire life. Baseball players do not put themselves through the hectic schedule Randy has most of his life. And almost all sports have an off time where their training goes to almost nil, and Randy has never really given himself that. Even when he was no actively fighting he was still training like he was according to all reports from other fighters and wrestlers who know him. If we are talking that Randy stopped fighting at 40, got fat, then at 44 bulked back up and then won the title I would agree with you, but honestly he has had his body in the shape it is for almost his entire life.

I can see where you are coming from, but I would have to disagree based on the knowledge that we do have.


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## MetalMunkey (Oct 14, 2006)

jasvll said:


> But why is it likely? If you can diagnose HGH users just by looking at their bellys, why is there any doubt who's using, and why aren't the commission's employing this technique? Is anyone who's exceptional likely to be a cheater or is it just the ones we decide to start threads about?
> 
> This thread has no other purpose than to cast a shadow of doubt where there was none. 'Randy on HGH?' Talk about loaded questions.


It's likely because he competing at such a high level years after most fighters retire. And, yes, anyone who is exceptional is likely to be a cheater. Could they get the same results from hard work? Hell yeah and kudos to them if they did. But when has human nature been to not take the easy way out?

Steroids give such a huge advantage it's hard to believe that people would simply dismiss them because "it's cheating." They get paid to fight for a living, if they believe that steroids will give them that extra push athletically and they think they won't get caught, it's hard for me to think that they wouldn't take it. You asked why "it's likely," I really don't have a cement reason, like I said it's all speculation. But why is it unlikely? Because they said they didn't do it? It would be easier for me to take someone at their word if I knew them but I don't so I can't. I've said before that it's naive to think that fighters wouldn't do something that would give them such an advantage or level the playing field with the other fighters who use.


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## Chax (Sep 24, 2007)

Here's some information on GH:



> Excesses
> 
> The most common disease of GH excess is a pituitary tumor composed of somatotroph cells of the anterior pituitary. These somatotroph adenomas are benign and grow slowly, gradually producing more and more GH. For years, the principal clinical problems are those of GH excess. Eventually the adenoma may become large enough to cause headaches, impair vision by pressure on the optic nerves, or cause deficiency of other pituitary hormones by displacement.
> 
> ...





> Side effects
> 
> Main article: HGH controversies
> 
> Side effects in adults may include extreme aggression, malaise, and dry mouth.[citation needed] There is theoretical concern that GH treatment may increase the risks of diabetes, especially in those with other predispositions treated with higher doses. One survey of adults who had been treated with replacement cadaver GH (which has not been used anywhere in the world, since 1985) during childhood showed a mildly increased incidence of colon cancer, but linkage with the GH treatment was not established.[8]


Whole article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone

So you want to ask Randy if he has a dry mouth?


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## Hackman (Oct 24, 2007)

harhar, remember that cotton mouth scene from "me, myself & irene" with jim carrey ? classic.

As for Couture on HGH, its possible. Look at Liddell, he has a sticky out stomach, and he seems much "smaller" than others in his weight. But he always seems to come out on top.

Could it just be that he can consistantly get hits on the button all the time ? maybe.

Now go back to Randy, its possible he has done it, but His nickname is "The Natural" and many people call him "the eco-freak" because of his bush orienteering adventures. Would a man who loves nature and that sort of thing be on any form of non-organic-made-in-a-lab-hormone-replacement ? Very doubtful. He wouldnt poison his body like that.

But yes, it is possible, very doubtful. 1 year of solid training can do wonders. Since your not training for a fight, you can train for conditioning.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

HexRei said:


> According to a Lousville detective, there were a "growth hormone". http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/lesnarmug1.html


I know that source. The detective said it was 'some kind of growth hormone,' which suggests to me that he didn't know much about what it was. Was that detective even involved in the case? Lesnar may well have been/be on growth hormone, but I don't think an unofficial response after he's 'exonerated' is proof.

I'd still like to know why the police thought there were catching him with steroids.


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## Lynch (Sep 7, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Let me first say that I have no source that this is just my own opinion. I like Randy and respect his skills and in no way am I bashing him or trying to ruin his legacy.
> 
> Randy Couture is 45 years old. In Combat sports that is usally 5 years too old to be compteing at any level, let alone being champion at the highest level. With all this talk about Roger Clemens going on right now about how he has gotten better with age, how can we not look at out own sport and our current poster boy Randy Couture. Whether you believe it or not, HGH is the most commonly used performance enhancer in pro sports today. Its naive to think that MMA fighters arent using it as well. If your Randy and you dont want to retire the way he did, why wouldnt you take it. Tons have medical research has been done that has been shown to help older ahtletes regain their once dominant form and even make them better than they ever were. It happened to Clemens, Bonds, and now it is happening Randy. Am I jumping to conclusions?? Possibly, but I dont think so. I small side eefect of HGH is that the abdominal region of the athlete pertrudes outward. Look in bodybuilders and pro wrestlers, they have ripped abs but their stomach kind of sticks out. That is a sign of HGH. Not to metnion it actually increases the size of your face and head. If you look at Randy you can see the bulge in his stomach that I speak of. I could be grasping at straws here but think about it with an open mind. Chuck Liddell KO's him twice, Randy retires. than he comes back after a year of not fighting anyone comes back and DESTROYS two very big, very strong, and very talented fighters. I just find is odd that he comes out of retirement at 44,45 and is better than he ever was. Something isnt right. Where there is smoke there is usually fire. Look at Bonds look at Clemens


In bodybuilding, it's called GH gut. Test also causes the bloat. GH does not show up in a drug test. A lot of UCF fighters are on GH.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

MetalMunkey said:


> It's likely because he competing at such a high level years after most fighters retire.


 MMA is a sport in its infancy. As young as it is, people are excelling at ages older than most boxers are able to perform. We don't know what the average retirement age will be, yet. Let's not forget that George Foreman won the heavyweight title at 45. There will always be exceptions.


> And, yes, anyone who is exceptional is likely to be a cheater. Could they get the same results from hard work? Hell yeah and kudos to them if they did. But when has human nature been to not take the easy way out?


 This says more about yourself and how you view the world than it does anyone else.



> Steroids give such a huge advantage it's hard to believe that people would simply dismiss them because "it's cheating." They get paid to fight for a living, if they believe that steroids will give them that extra push athletically and they think they won't get caught, it's hard for me to think that they wouldn't take it.


 Some people have moral standards. I'm not saying Couture is one of them, I'm just saying that some people are willing to keep their word for the sake of it.



> You asked why "it's likely," I really don't have a cement reason, like I said it's all speculation. But why is it unlikely? Because they said they didn't do it? It would be easier for me to take someone at their word if I knew them but I don't so I can't. I've said before that it's naive to think that fighters wouldn't do something that would give them such an advantage or level the playing field with the other fighters who use.


 I never said it was unlikely. I said there was no evidence that he was on growth hormone.

When someone excels, people tend to look for excuses, any reason why that person isn't actually better than them. These people would rather believe the whole world is filled with dishonest and untrustworthy people (except themselves, of course) than consider that someone is simply more successful than them. That also seems to be, 'human nature.'


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

jasvll said:


> When someone excels, people tend to look for excuses, any reason why that person isn't actually better than them. These people would rather believe the whole world is filled with dishonest and untrustworthy people (except themselves, of course) than consider that someone is simply more successful than them. That also seems to be, 'human nature.'



Niiiice...

:thumbsup:

I agree with you there, but the main thing for me is how square Randy's face is and how big his jaw and forehead are. Like I said earlier I can't help but notice it as soon as I see him, it just is so obvious to me. (not that he's using but that his face looks like that of a neanderthal's)


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## wafb (May 8, 2007)

Lynch said:


> In bodybuilding, it's called GH gut. Test also causes the bloat. GH does not show up in a drug test. A lot of UCF fighters are on GH.


It's true Test causes bloat but not at the same level that GH does. After all there are AI's that one can take to help minimize the excess E2(estrogen). With GH it's not so much as bloating, but your internal organs growing that causes the distended stomach.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Is Randy a better fighter now than he was 5-10 years ago?? To me the answer is yes. When Randy was 37-40 he was struggling against the bigger guys in the HW division. Now he goes in there and throws around Sylvia who is 6'8 280 pounds, and than sends 255lb GG seven feet in the air and wcrashing to the ground. The dude is 45!! Thats nuts. I dont wanna hear this diet crap. You dont think Randy was eating the proper foods and taking care of his body when he was 35-40?/ Of course he was. But now when a mans body is supposed to be shutting down, he is the best ever. 

And some mentioned that thing on fight science when they measure his lactic acid in his blood after a one minute guillotine. The doctor said in a normal human ur lactic acid count goes up drastically, his went down. I can attribute some of that to being a pro athlete, but I would have expexted his lactiz acid count to only increase a little not go down :dunno:


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## Lynch (Sep 7, 2007)

wafb said:


> It's true Test causes bloat but not at the same level that GH does. After all there are AI's that one can take to help minimize the excess E2(estrogen). With GH it's not so much as bloating, but your internal organs growing that causes the distended stomach.


These guys don't abuse drugs like bodybuilders do. So, I don't think they are running arimidex, letrozole or nolvadex. At most, 400 mgs of test or deca per week. Now Mark Kerr and Mark Coleman is a different story. 


Just about all the top fighters in the UFC are on GH. You can tell by that "Gh Gut." Chuck Liddel has it bad.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

Lynch said:


> These guys don't abuse drugs like bodybuilders do. So, I don't think they are running arimidex, letrozole or nolvadex. At most, 400 mgs of test or deca per week. Now Mark Kerr and Mark Coleman is a different story.
> 
> 
> Just about all the top fighters in the UFC are on GH. You can tell by that "Gh Gut." Chuck Liddel has it bad.


Chuck's is actually most likely from beer.


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## Bebop (Aug 15, 2006)

Lynch said:


> These guys don't abuse drugs like bodybuilders do. So, I don't think they are running arimidex, letrozole or nolvadex. At most, 400 mgs of test or deca per week. Now Mark Kerr and Mark Coleman is a different story.
> 
> 
> Just about all the top fighters in the UFC are on GH. You can tell by that "Gh Gut." Chuck Liddel has it bad.


It's nice to see other's who actually know something about the 'sauce'. I've been in some other "roid" threads and it's frustarting when ignorant poeple starting spouting wild and crazy stories/myths about roids.... when they really don't know anytning about them.

Randy shows the signs of taking HGH, it's pretty obvious. However, it's another question as to if he's "cheating". Test, HGH and other anabolics are perfectly legal (in soceity) with a prescription. Randy's getting pretty old, so he may even be on doctor supervied hormone replacment therapy. If HGH isn't illegal in the UFC... is he really cheating?


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## Lynch (Sep 7, 2007)

Bebop said:


> It's nice to see other's who actually know something about the 'sauce'. I've been in some other "roid" threads and it's frustarting when ignorant poeple starting spouting wild and crazy stories/myths about roids.... when they really don't know anytning about them.
> 
> Randy shows the signs of taking HGH, it's pretty obvious. However, it's another question as to if he's "cheating". Test, HGH and other anabolics are perfectly legal (in soceity) with a prescription. Randy's getting pretty old, so he may even be on doctor supervied hormone replacment therapy. If HGH isn't illegal in the UFC... is he really cheating?



Without HRT he would not fight the same.


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## Tank (Oct 22, 2006)

My dad was a construction worker, iron worker, and carpenter for most of his life, doing hard manual labor all day every day. One day when he came home after work, I had a friend over at the house who was on the track team at our High School- he was bragging about how fast he was and my dad said "I'll race you". My dad didn't even take his work boots off and beat him easily. Oh, BTW, my dad was 40- I guess he was on HGH...NOT

This just shows that people are different- genetics, work ethic, excercise, and taking care of our bodies are all factors. My dad at 65 could out work most of the 30 year old men I knew. You're performance does not all of a sudden drop off when you turn 40, it is a gradual process that can be slowed down by taking care of yourself. Obviously Randy has done that. 

Randy on himself- "Some of it has to do with the fact that I’ve led a pretty clean life and taken care of my body for the most part and some of that is just good genetics.”

As you get older, you become more aware of what you put in your body and how it affects energy levels. Certain foods have either an acidic or alkaline effect on the body. For example, animal products, sugar, dairy and processed grains are all acid forming foods. On the other end of the spectrum, there are foods such as vegetables, especially green leafy vegetables, which have an alkaline effect. Since the stress of training is also acidic, you would need to reduce the amount of acid build up in your body so your body would be able to function more efficiently. An example of this would be when Randy was training for Tito in UFC 44,because he followed this type of diet, Randy felt better and experienced more energy. Randy's diet included green vegetables with each meal. Almost every morning began with fresh vegetables and an alkalizing Light Force Green drink. Grilled fish, soba noodles, high energy pancakes, wheat grass shots and fresh vegetable juices and avocado on yeast free toast were also on the menu. Believe it or not, Randy did not get tired at all in his fight with Tito. This is a testament to not only his nutrition but also his understanding and application of correct training principles so he peaked at the right time. 

It's easy to accuse someone of juicing or taking HGH, but there is nothing in Randy's history or lifestyle that would lead someone to believe he has done either.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

mlsman23 said:


> Chuck's is actually most likely from beer.


Ahem, "NyQuil."


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

Damone said:


> Ahem, "NyQuil."


Oh yeah I forgot, silly me.


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## Lynch (Sep 7, 2007)

Tank said:


> My dad was a construction worker, iron worker, and carpenter for most of his life, doing hard manual labor all day every day. One day when he came home after work, I had a friend over at the house who was on the track team at our High School- he was bragging about how fast he was and my dad said "I'll race you". My dad didn't even take his work boots off and beat him easily. Oh, BTW, my dad was 40- I guess he was on HGH...NOT
> 
> This just shows that people are different- genetics, work ethic, excercise, and taking care of our bodies are all factors. My dad at 65 could out work most of the 30 year old men I knew. You're performance does not all of a sudden drop off when you turn 40, it is a gradual process that can be slowed down by taking care of yourself. Obviously Randy has done that.
> 
> ...


Trust me.....Randy starts up on GH a couple of months before a fight. He sticks himself six times a week. Joe Rogan said in an interview Randy was on HRT.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

Bebop said:


> It's nice to see other's who actually know something about the 'sauce'. I've been in some other "roid" threads and it's frustarting when ignorant poeple starting spouting wild and crazy stories/myths about roids.... when they really don't know anytning about them.
> 
> Randy shows the signs of taking HGH, it's pretty obvious. However, it's another question as to if he's "cheating". Test, HGH and other anabolics are perfectly legal (in soceity) with a prescription. Randy's getting pretty old, so he may even be on doctor supervied hormone replacment therapy. If HGH isn't illegal in the UFC... is he really cheating?


 HGH is banned; it just isn't tested for by the commissions, yet. Either way, Couture still has to reveal all his prescriptions to the commission, so in order for him to compete within the rules, the commission would have had to authorize the use of HGH.


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## Tank (Oct 22, 2006)

Lynch said:


> Trust me.....Randy starts up on GH a couple of months before a fight. He sticks himself six times a week. Joe Rogan said in an interview Randy was on HRT.


You have inside info? Do you know Randy? 

This whole thread is really silly considering many men over 40 are on Medically Supervised HRT(Hormone Replacement Therapy) Does that make them world champions? No

IMO, It really doesn't matter if he is or not.


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## Lynch (Sep 7, 2007)

Tank said:


> You have inside info? Do you know Randy?
> 
> This whole thread is really silly considering many men over 40 are on Medically Supervised HRT(Hormone Replacement Therapy) Does that make them world champions? No
> 
> IMO, It really doesn't matter if he is or not.


Joe Rogan said Randy was HRT in a live interview on the radio. It's all over the internet. Do a google search and listen.


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## Tank (Oct 22, 2006)

Lynch said:


> Joe Rogan said Randy was HRT in a live interview on the radio. It's all over the internet. Do a google search and listen.


I'll take your word for it- but like I said, it really doesn't matter because many men over 40 are on HRT and it does nothing more than help them feel more like they felt 4 or 5 years earlier. I don't believe it gives you a competitive edge. Randy is still fighting men that are in their prime.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

jasvll said:


> I think you're missing another possibility. Both leprechauns and genies grant wishes. I'm not accusing Couture, but it seems likely that he either went to the land of Ire or Iran and made a deal to decision an injured Sylvia and defeat an unproven Gonzaga. Something isn't right. Where there's smoke, there is usually fire. In this case, it's flaming leprechauns and red hot genies. Let's throw a unicorn in there, too.


i love you.

the only thing that bothers me is i don't get a chance to make sarcastic comments before you do


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## Lynch (Sep 7, 2007)

Tank said:


> I'll take your word for it- but like I said, it really doesn't matter because many men over 40 are on HRT and it does nothing more than help them feel more like they felt 4 or 5 years earlier. I don't believe it gives you a competitive edge. Randy is still fighting men that are in their prime.


You know nothing about HRT or steroids.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

Krylon said:


> Randy does not use steroids get real he's been tested like at least 20 times by athletic commissions.


Their is a difference in steroids and HGH and we are talking about him using HGH. And the athletic commission does not test for HGH.


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## Hackman (Oct 24, 2007)

Lynch said:


> Joe Rogan said Randy was HRT in a live interview on the radio. It's all over the internet. Do a google search and listen.


yer but joe is a wank stain. Did he say that before or after randy left UFC (well, trying to leave).

Whos to say joe didnt say that "by accident" to tarnish his reputation so no other group would take him.

Joe himself is a proud HRT user. Also needs a replacement brain..


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## Lynch (Sep 7, 2007)

Hackman said:


> yer but joe is a wank stain. Did he say that before or after randy left UFC (well, trying to leave).
> 
> Whos to say joe didnt say that "by accident" to tarnish his reputation so no other group would take him.
> 
> Joe himself is a proud HRT user. Also needs a replacement brain..


No.

He said right after the Gonzaga fight.


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## mma17 (Jun 4, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> I small side eefect of HGH is that the abdominal region of the athlete pertrudes outward. Look in bodybuilders and pro wrestlers, they have ripped abs but their stomach kind of sticks out. That is a sign of HGH.


Just because your stomach sticks out isn't proof of HGH. Chuck Liddell has a comically portruding stomach. HGH or just genetics? Plus now that I think of it does RAndy's stomach even portrude?


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

jasvll said:


> I know that source. The detective said it was 'some kind of growth hormone,' which suggests to me that he didn't know much about what it was. Was that detective even involved in the case? Lesnar may well have been/be on growth hormone, but I don't think an unofficial response after he's 'exonerated' is proof.
> 
> I'd still like to know why the police thought there were catching him with steroids.


I'd guess it's because a big box labelled "Fitropin Human Growth Hormone" or Jintropin Human Growth Hormone" or some such sounds a lot like steroids to your average person. Most cops don't have the biology or chemistry background to know the difference. Chinese HGH was a lot easier to get via mail back in those days, now Kexing won't even ship Fitropin to the US (or so they claim).


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## wafb (May 8, 2007)

HexRei said:


> I'd guess it's because a big box labelled "Fitropin Human Growth Hormone" or Jintropin Human Growth Hormone" or some such sounds a lot like steroids to your average person. Most cops don't have the biology or chemistry background to know the difference. Chinese HGH was a lot easier to get via mail back in those days, now Kexing won't even ship Fitropin to the US (or so they claim).



I know even the generic blue tops are hard to come by. Jinos are gone for good.


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## Pr0d1gy (Sep 25, 2006)

I'm not going to go so far as to say every pro MMA fighter is using roids and hgh, et al, but I will say that a huge majority of them are. Good write up by the original poster with an original idea and thought to express. Repped.


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## Tank (Oct 22, 2006)

Lynch said:


> You know nothing about HRT or steroids.


Actually I do-don't make demeaning comments to people you don't even know. 

My previous comment was only dealing with whether or not HRT would explain Randy's performance at his age. I know HRT deals with problems such as decreased sex drive, erectile dysfunction, increased irritability or depression, fatigue, reduced sperm count, and an inability to concentrate. 

The problem is the thread was started with an accusation of Randy using HGH, and then turned into a discussion of him being on HRT. When you talk about HRT you are mainly talking about Testosterone, not HGH. I didn't think it was necessary to get into the differences between HRT and HGH. Most HRT seeks benefits in bone and muscle, in the ability to maintain bone structure to prevent fractures,and to prevent the *decline* in strength. 

Using HRT or HGH still does not explain how a 44 year old man can fight 29 year old men in their prime and dominate them...so it is irrelevant whether he is on HGH or HRT.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

Tank said:


> Actually I do-don't make demeaning comments to people you don't even know.
> 
> My previous comment was only dealing with whether or not HRT would explain Randy's performance at his age. I know HRT deals with problems such as decreased sex drive, erectile dysfunction, increased irritability or depression, fatigue, reduced sperm count, and an inability to concentrate.
> 
> ...


So something that help you train and recover unlike most your age is irrelevant?


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## wallysworld191 (Mar 28, 2007)

Here's why I don't think Randy is on HGH.

He lost his hair.

I know a little something about HGH, hell one of my lifting buddy's has it sitting in his room right now.

If Randy was on HGH I'm pretty sure he would have gotten more hair, not less.

Now other steroids maybe.

The lactic acid test they did on him probably has a lot to do with his age and his diet. The complete lack of sugars, and the abundance of leafy green vegi's would really help him from getting a build up all to quickly.

The Hormone Replacement Therapy would could be a cause of his ability to stay young and recover well. that combined with steroids would make his body's toughness, like ten times that of an average person.


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## Tank (Oct 22, 2006)

mlsman23 said:


> So something that help you train and recover unlike most your age is irrelevant?


I think it is irrelevant, not because it would not help him at all, but that it would not explain the difference between him and most men within 8-10 years of his age. Randy had better cardio than Tito in their fight and he is 12 years older than Tito. 

All I'm saying is that, even if Randy takes HGH(which I do not believe he does), it is legal and accepted, and would not make him 12 years younger than he is. I still believe it is genetics, diet, lifestyle, and consistent exercise. Randy apparently stays in great shape all the time- not just fight times, does not drink excessively, maintains a healthy diet, and his genetics speak for themselves.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

Tank said:


> I think it is irrelevant, not because it would not help him at all, but that it would not explain the difference between him and most men within 8-10 years of his age. Randy had better cardio than Tito in their fight and he is 12 years older than Tito.


How does it not explain the difference between him and those guy that are 8-10 years younger. HGH like I have said may times in this thread, pretty much turns back the hands of time. It helps make your body feel and act more youthful.


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## wafb (May 8, 2007)

wallysworld191 said:


> Here's why I don't think Randy is on HGH.
> 
> He lost his hair.
> 
> ...



lol, alopecia is caused by dht so how does GH counteract that effect?

Your lifting buddy has GH sitting in his room you say? has it been reconstituted? You know, if like you said you know a little something about GH, you know that it has to be refrigerated,right?

And another thing, not everyone get the same effects from AAS, just because one started losing hair on it, doesn't necessarily mean another one will. I'm living proof of it since I still have a full head of hair(knock on wood)after being *on*for seven years now with a little break here and there. While the other guys at my gym have progressively lost their hair, and I'm not even using the insane dosages they use.:thumb02:


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## scepticILL (Mar 29, 2007)

Anyone notice his head and jaw are bigger than they used to be? Recently he looks like the hulk.


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## Suvaco (Mar 31, 2007)

I really would not be surprised to find out Randy is on some sort of illegal substance. In fact, I believe most top level fighters are. GSP is one of my favorite fighters, and I firmly believe he uses illegal substances. It just makes me respect people like BJ Penn (who I am convinced does not use anything illegal) that much more.


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## Punishment 101 (May 4, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Let me first say that I have no source that this is just my own opinion. I like Randy and respect his skills and in no way am I bashing him or trying to ruin his legacy.
> 
> Randy Couture is 45 years old. In Combat sports that is usally 5 years too old to be compteing at any level, let alone being champion at the highest level. With all this talk about Roger Clemens going on right now about how he has gotten better with age, how can we not look at out own sport and our current poster boy Randy Couture. Whether you believe it or not, HGH is the most commonly used performance enhancer in pro sports today. Its naive to think that MMA fighters arent using it as well. If your Randy and you dont want to retire the way he did, why wouldnt you take it. Tons have medical research has been done that has been shown to help older ahtletes regain their once dominant form and even make them better than they ever were. It happened to Clemens, Bonds, and now it is happening Randy. Am I jumping to conclusions?? Possibly, but I dont think so. I small side eefect of HGH is that the abdominal region of the athlete pertrudes outward. Look in bodybuilders and pro wrestlers, they have ripped abs but their stomach kind of sticks out. That is a sign of HGH. Not to metnion it actually increases the size of your face and head. If you look at Randy you can see the bulge in his stomach that I speak of. I could be grasping at straws here but think about it with an open mind. Chuck Liddell KO's him twice, Randy retires. than he comes back after a year of not fighting anyone comes back and DESTROYS two very big, very strong, and very talented fighters. I just find is odd that he comes out of retirement at 44,45 and is better than he ever was. Something isnt right. Where there is smoke there is usually fire. Look at Bonds look at Clemens


Nice sig dude whos work is that ?


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## wallysworld191 (Mar 28, 2007)

wafb said:


> lol, alopecia is caused by dht so how does GH counteract that effect?
> 
> Your lifting buddy has GH sitting in his room you say? has it been reconstituted? You know, if like you said you know a little something about GH, you know that it has to be refrigerated,right?
> 
> And another thing, not everyone get the same effects from AAS, just because one started losing hair on it, doesn't necessarily mean another one will. I'm living proof of it since I still have a full head of hair(knock on wood)after being *on*for seven years now with a little break here and there. While the other guys at my gym have progressively lost their hair, and I'm not even using the insane dosages they use.:thumb02:


first of all, its in powder form right now.
secondly im saying i dont think he is on because he lost his hair, which would be an uncommon side effect. 

also there are several types of alopecia and it is not the only form of balding. DHT comes from excessive amounts of a test by product, which could be a common cause of hair loss in most steroid users, but GH doesnt have the same test boosting effect, its a growth stimulant, which causes you to grow more hair.

have a gander at this CPT roid rage, might make you think a little.
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/human-growth-hormone-hgh-side-effects.html


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## wafb (May 8, 2007)

wallysworld191 said:


> but GH doesnt have the same test boosting effect, its a growth stimulant, which causes you to grow more hair.
> 
> have a gander at this CPT roid rage, might make you think a little.
> http://www.buzzle.com/articles/human-growth-hormone-hgh-side-effects.html



Have a gander at www.afboard.com the finest mind in underground bodybuilding and weight training hang out there.:thumb02: They will make you think.


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## MMAmatt (Apr 8, 2007)

when he came back and dominated like he did, i`ll be honest i thought that he might be on some drug, or was for a short time...

but now i dont even care so much...


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## Tank (Oct 22, 2006)

mlsman23 said:


> How does it not explain the difference between him and those guy that are 8-10 years younger. HGH like I have said may times in this thread, pretty much turns back the hands of time. It helps make your body feel and act more youthful.



Turns back the hands of time-maybe- but there is a limit. 

Whatever edge you think he might be getting from HGH will not make up for the age difference when he is fighting 28-32 year old men.


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