# KOTC Ring Girls



## davidm724 (Feb 17, 2007)

So I just got a set of KOTC as an early christmas present to myself (hey, it was cheap), and I thought there was something a little funny about the ring girls...

Actually, I realized it wasn't really the ring girls, it was the filming of the ring girls. If you watch the UFC, you see the girl walk by, smile and wave to the camera. But on KOTC, the cameraman will zoom in on their ass and follow them along. Or, they'll catch a close up of their tits and hold it for a good 10 seconds. It took a minute for me to snap out of it and realize what was going on... because hey, I got no problem checkin them out.

The problem I do see though is that it is a pretty cheesy thing to do. I mean the guy zoomed in on tits and ass like I was looking through beer goggles. I could appreciate it, but I felt like it was pretty classless. In the eyes of many, I believe this is a bad way to represent MMA as a classy sport, unless KOTC is destined to stay underground. What do you guys think about it?


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## sirdilznik (Nov 21, 2006)

davidm724 said:


> So I just got a set of KOTC as an early christmas present to myself (hey, it was cheap), and I thought there was something a little funny about the ring girls...
> 
> Actually, I realized it wasn't really the ring girls, it was the filming of the ring girls. If you watch the UFC, you see the girl walk by, smile and wave to the camera. But on KOTC, the cameraman will zoom in on their ass and follow them along. Or, they'll catch a close up of their tits and hold it for a good 10 seconds. It took a minute for me to snap out of it and realize what was going on... because hey, I got no problem checkin them out.
> 
> The problem I do see though is that it is a pretty cheesy thing to do. I mean the guy zoomed in on tits and ass like I was looking through beer goggles. I could appreciate it, but I felt like it was pretty classless. In the eyes of many, I believe this is a bad way to represent MMA as a classy sport, unless KOTC is destined to stay underground. What do you guys think about it?


Yeah I know what you mean. If they're going for the "bunch of seedy lookin' dudes in some basement" feel then that's the way to go I guess. I got no problem with seeing some ass, but they could class it up a little bit. The shit they got going on now winds up looking like a "Girls Gone Wild" video too much.


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## davidm724 (Feb 17, 2007)

Exactly what I was thinking. I mean, I feel like they are in the stone-age of MMA. For instance, MMA's female audience is getting big really fast, and I think even they would appreciate a tasteful display of a ring girl. My girlfriend watches UFC with me and she talks about how hot the ring girls are. I agree with her, and we move on. If she were to watch KOTC with me, she would be like, "what, is the cameraman following her around with a boner?" The ring girls aren't bad, it's merely how they're displayed. I just think it's bad for the sport.


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## rufio.e0 (Jul 5, 2007)

davidm724 said:


> Exactly what I was thinking. I mean, I feel like they are in the stone-age of MMA. For instance, MMA's female audience is getting big really fast, and I think even they would appreciate a tasteful display of a ring girl. My girlfriend watches UFC with me and she talks about how hot the ring girls are. I agree with her, and we move on. If she were to watch KOTC with me, she would be like, "what, is the cameraman following her around with a boner?" The ring girls aren't bad, it's merely how they're displayed. I just think it's bad for the sport.


very good point. Same way with the Art of War shows. Girls on stands in less-than skimpy clothing with a camera (literally in some cases) up their skirts. Don't get me wrong... I like to look and all, but unlike the higher quality shows... I can't take my wife to one of these (not without getting dirty looks anyway).


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## Ferdelance (Jul 18, 2006)

davidm724 said:


> So I just got a set of KOTC as an early christmas present to myself (hey, it was cheap), and I thought there was something a little funny about the ring girls...
> 
> Actually, I realized it wasn't really the ring girls, it was the filming of the ring girls. If you watch the UFC, you see the girl walk by, smile and wave to the camera. But on KOTC, the cameraman will zoom in on their ass and follow them along. Or, they'll catch a close up of their tits and hold it for a good 10 seconds. It took a minute for me to snap out of it and realize what was going on... because hey, I got no problem checkin them out.
> 
> The problem I do see though is that it is a pretty cheesy thing to do. I mean the guy zoomed in on tits and ass like I was looking through beer goggles. I could appreciate it, but I felt like it was pretty classless. In the eyes of many, I believe this is a bad way to represent MMA as a classy sport, unless KOTC is destined to stay underground. What do you guys think about it?


Where do I sign up for KOTC? For the longest time, I was wishing that somebody would do just what you described, as opposed to pretending that the girls aren't there, or just giving you a nanosecond glimpse of her face and her hands holding the sign.
To answer your question:I think that sounds great!
How do I sign up?
:thumb02:
Ferdelance


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## PanKrato (Mar 5, 2007)

davidm724 said:


> So I just got a set of KOTC as an early christmas present to myself (hey, it was cheap), and I thought there was something a little funny about the ring girls...
> 
> Actually, I realized it wasn't really the ring girls, it was the filming of the ring girls. If you watch the UFC, you see the girl walk by, smile and wave to the camera. But on KOTC, the cameraman will zoom in on their ass and follow them along. Or, they'll catch a close up of their tits and hold it for a good 10 seconds. It took a minute for me to snap out of it and realize what was going on... because hey, I got no problem checkin them out.
> 
> The problem I do see though is that it is a pretty cheesy thing to do. I mean the guy zoomed in on tits and ass like I was looking through beer goggles. I could appreciate it, but I felt like it was pretty classless. In the eyes of many, I believe this is a bad way to represent MMA as a classy sport, unless KOTC is destined to stay underground. What do you guys think about it?


For real,
They need to get a life. We're here to watch the arts of unarmed combat, not a bunch of worthless hoes. People with no respect for girls need to get out more.


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## Deadpool (Dec 14, 2006)

I think KOTC is aiming for that appeal.


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## Ferdelance (Jul 18, 2006)

PanKrato said:


> For real,
> They need to get a life. We're here to watch the arts of unarmed combat, not a bunch of worthless hoes. People with no respect for girls need to get out more.


"Worthless hoes?" I am really quite sure that their boyfriends/husbands and family members would disagree strongly with that,indeed,take extreme personal umbrage over a remark like that,that is, if they didn't attribute it to coming from the mouth of someone terminally brain dead.
You've never met these ladies. In the few instances in my life when I was actually able to personally meet some professional models,they were all fine ladies who saw modeling and the subsequent media exposure as a stepping stone to careers in cinema,or music,or some other media-intensive enterprise.
I personally object to the word "ho." I agree with the people who see it as a disparaging term that is essentially misogynistic in import.It entered mainstream vocabulary by way of the cultural abomination known as "gangsta rap" and the low life criminals who tried to re-invent themselves as quote un-quote "rappers."
I sincerely feel that the word "ho" has no place in the vocabulary of a gentleman.
More importantly,though, your other comments bring to mind the debate that occurred sometime ago over the free TV airing of the Lee Marvin movie "Point Blank." To re-cap, in the original movie, there is a very,very brief scene where an actress, I believe it is Angie Dickinson,appears topless in what was supposed to be a topless bar in California.
That brief scene was cut out for free TV viewing.
But the critics said:Look what was left in the movie!!!
"Point Blank" was, at the time, one of the most ultra-violent movies ever made!Those who were responsible for the TV editing found nothing objectionable at all about showing somebody getting blown away by being shot in the head with a high-powered rifle.
Or what about the scene where Lee Marvin gets set up in the back of a bar,and there are three hoods waiting for him.One of them has a pipe, one of them has a blackjack, and I believe the other has a chain or something equally vicious.
The scene where Lee Marvin fights for life has to be one of the most ultra-violent scenes in a movie of its time.
So the critics raise the question:Why is it all right to show somebody being murdered by a high-powered rifle or show somebody being set-up in an alleyway and being beaten by hired thugs,but it's not okay to show a woman's breast?
I say the same thing.
Why is it okay to see somebody get kicked in the head or smashed in the face or guillotine choked,or subjected to an excrutiatingly painful submission hold, but it is wrong to give someone a glimpse of a beautiful woman who has a nice body?
And I want to go on record as one of those people who believe that a woman's body, when it is beautiful, is one of the most beautiful things in the universe!
Just my opinion,
Ferdelance


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## davidm724 (Feb 17, 2007)

My point was that the _filming_ of the ring girls was extremely distasteful. Pardon PanKrato for using the term "worthless hoes", but that is exactly what they were portrayed as through the filming. They weren't wearing much less than any ring girl, if any less, but the camera man is filming them like some voyeur in a mall. Notice PanKrato says, "people with no respect for girls need to get out more." That tells me he was just explaining that the camera men have no respect for the ring girls. Am I wrong?

Good movie by the way. However, nobody here has a problem with a beautiful woman on display. That's the whole point of the ring girl. But while they do their walk around the ring just like every other ring girl, the KOTC cameras are exploiting them. So, it is not the girls we think are classless, it is those who are filming them.


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## Ferdelance (Jul 18, 2006)

davidm724 said:


> My point was that the _filming_ of the ring girls was extremely distasteful. Pardon PanKrato for using the term "worthless hoes", but that is exactly what they were portrayed as through the filming. They weren't wearing much less than any ring girl, if any less, but the camera man is filming them like some voyeur in a mall. Notice PanKrato says, "people with no respect for girls need to get out more." That tells me he was just explaining that the camera men have no respect for the ring girls. Am I wrong?
> 
> Good movie by the way. However, nobody here has a problem with a beautiful woman on display. That's the whole point of the ring girl. But while they do their walk around the ring just like every other ring girl, the KOTC cameras are exploiting them. So, it is not the girls we think are classless, it is those who are filming them.


The Probability and Statistics courses that I have taken have stressed the fact that all possibilities have to be taken into consideration before any kind of a valid conclusion can be reached logically.
That said, I have to cop to the fact that I have not seen KOTC,I don't exactly know what you are talking about,and the possibility does exist that if I saw it,maybe I would agree with you.
Maybe I would find it even more objectionable than you do!
But I doubt it.What I find is that some of the discussion here mirrors what was said in Loudon Wainwright's famous essay on the miniskirt,written back when the mini-skirt was first introduced, around 1965 or 1966.As Loudon Wainright recalls, he was raised to believe that,in his words,"if a lady is about to have difficulty with her skirt," he's talking about,say,the wind or something blowing her skirt up like the famous subway grate scene in the Marilyn Monroe movie "Seven Year Itch," well, a gentleman is supposed to avert his eyes.But what Loudon Wainright discovered is that the mini-skirt introduced an entirely new paradigm:a gentleman is not supposed to look away.
Au contraire.
A gentleman is supposed to gaze to his heart's content,or at the very least, an appreciative glance is de riguer.
I don't know what the girls you are talking about are wearing: I assume that they are wearing minis,which are so de rigeur at this point that minis have become boring to me, or hot pants/shorts made out of spandex,or tank tops or halter tops made out of some kind of flimsy material.But I will assume for the purposes of discussion that they've got on minis.
If you can see up her dress:Big deal.
It was designed for exactly that purpose!
If you can see the nipples of her breasts through the material of her skimpy top:Big deal!
It was designed for that purpose.
What I personally object to is when they cut the camera away from the girl so you won't see her ass, or they keep the camera on the girl from the shoulders up.
I hate that crap, and I feel that it is unnatural.
I will also stick by my guns in saying that the word "ho,"used for any reason or in any context, simply has no place in the vocabulary of a gentleman.I would say in passing what was said to the staff of the college radio station about vulgarity,profanity,and dirty words on the air,namely,you should possess a sufficiently large vocabulary that enables you to express yourself without using those kinds of words.
Enough about that.
I am really more interested in hearing more about what you think about the movie "Point Blank."
Why did you think that it was a good movie?
I believe that it is out now in VHS or DVD,although I have not seen the uncut version.I first saw it as a teen, when there was that hub-bub that I mentioned in the above post about what was aired and what wasn't.I liked it then,especially for how they set up the scene for Lee Marvin's encounter with the three thugs in the alley,the part where there was a singer spoofing the Godfather of Soul James Brown by screaming like James Brown,and handing the microphone to people in the audience so they could scream,too.Then the part came when Lee Marvin got the best of the last thug and knocked him through the wall and his body crashed onto the stage and that girl started screaming and everybody thought that it was part of the act!
Wild.
But now I think of that movie as like one of the ultimate Hollywood tough guy movies,like "Showdown in Little Tokyo" where Dolph Lungren takes on those three hoods without even putting down his cup of tea!
That blew me away!
Like Lee Marvin's encounter with the thugs:that's Hollywood tough guy stuff.Now as an adult, I know that nobody could take the kind of shot that Lee Marvin took that laid him out face down on his stomach in the alleyway,nobody could take a shot like that and then fight back like he did!
If that shot didn't knock him out,not to mention getting hit in the head like that could have killed him outright, at the very least he would have been so stunned or senseless,there is no way he could have fought back.
No way.
But yeah, for wild, Hollywood tough guy stuff,"Point Blank" makes it.
But I would like to hear your thoughts on it,specifically.
Respectfully responding,
Ferdelance


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## davidm724 (Feb 17, 2007)

I respect your stance on derogatory terms for women, as well as your view on the scantily clad ring girls. I know that their little outfits are supposed to leave little to the imagination. However, that's not what I was calling classless. If you watch the KOTC's from last year (those are the ones I saw), you'd know exactly what I'm talking about. I, just as any other man, enjoy watching the girls strut their stuff, but the point I'm trying to get across is merely the filming of the girls. It's like they handed the ring-girl-cam to a 13-year old with a hard-on. A couple times, they actually zoomed in and out repetitively on their ass or tits like the horny wolf in those cartoons making googly eyes while drooling profusely. That's just the image I get when they film like this. If you are offended by a man's use of the word "ho", surely you'd be offended by KOTC's portrayal of these women. I suggest you check out the show, and see what you think. My thought is merely that it is not a good strategy to promote our sport. If I was sitting down in the front row, surely I'd be looking at every inch of the girls, but some viewers on TV will not sit through such a display. That is why I feel it's a bad representation of our sport. Maybe, as stated before, KOTC is aiming for this sort of program. If so, that's cool. I'll continue to watch it. I just think it's an ineffective way to become a bigger organization.

As for the movie Point Blank, I saw it when I was really young (probably about 10 or so), and I remember watching the movie Payback, thinking they totally ripped off Point Blank. Then I realized it was just a remake. I liked the movie, but I can't remember many very specific parts or cool dialogue. Just thought it was good.


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## Ferdelance (Jul 18, 2006)

davidm724 said:


> I respect your stance on derogatory terms for women, as well as your view on the scantily clad ring girls. I know that their little outfits are supposed to leave little to the imagination. However, that's not what I was calling classless. If you watch the KOTC's from last year (those are the ones I saw), you'd know exactly what I'm talking about. I, just as any other man, enjoy watching the girls strut their stuff, but the point I'm trying to get across is merely the filming of the girls. It's like they handed the ring-girl-cam to a 13-year old with a hard-on. A couple times, they actually zoomed in and out repetitively on their ass or tits like the horny wolf in those cartoons making googly eyes while drooling profusely. That's just the image I get when they film like this. If you are offended by a man's use of the word "ho", surely you'd be offended by KOTC's portrayal of these women. I suggest you check out the show, and see what you think. My thought is merely that it is not a good strategy to promote our sport. If I was sitting down in the front row, surely I'd be looking at every inch of the girls, but some viewers on TV will not sit through such a display. That is why I feel it's a bad representation of our sport. Maybe, as stated before, KOTC is aiming for this sort of program. If so, that's cool. I'll continue to watch it. I just think it's an ineffective way to become a bigger organization.
> 
> As for the movie Point Blank, I saw it when I was really young (probably about 10 or so), and I remember watching the movie Payback, thinking they totally ripped off Point Blank. Then I realized it was just a remake. I liked the movie, but I can't remember many very specific parts or cool dialogue. Just thought it was good.


First of all,Happy New Year to you and many happy returns.
As for the rest of it:
1.Maybe what would put us both on the same wavelength here is if I suggest that perhaps part of the problem here is what might be called "False Advertising," inadvertent or intentional.At the very least, I gather that perhaps you feel that this thing might be better shown on the Playboy Channel...There is still such a thing isn't there? One of the local newspapers in my neck of the woods has been gloating over what they see as Playboy magazine taking a financial beating because of the Internet....I wouldn't know.I know the last time I was down at Sailor Bob's Bar & Grill, and that goes back a couple of summers,there was something called The Playboy Channel on the boob tube over the bar.
You and the other gentlemen who have posted on this thread all seem to be saying, you thought you were going to see an unarmed combat venue, and what you got was really like a televised or video version of Maxim magazine or something,you know,T&A shots of women along with some articles and pix of top pro fighters and martial artists,etc.
That I can see,especially the gentleman who said that he was offended by having his special lady with him when he viewed that.
I certainly can't argue with that.Again,maybe they should look to switching venue,like to the Playboy Channel,if there is still such a thing, or,around my way they have I believe it is called E! channel or something, they once had a show called Wild-on with swimsuit model Brooke Burke, I never saw it, this is just what I heard from fairly reliable source, also I believe at one time they broadcast the Howard Stern show with porno models and centerfolds taking off their clothes in the studio during the live broadcast.
Maybe the KOTC people should talk about switching venue to there? Maybe? Present it to the crowd that is looking for that kind of thing?As the old saying goes:Take it somewheres else.(?)
About that movie Payback:was it any good?
I generally hate re-makes.Like they recently made a re-make of one of my favorite movies with some martial arts action in it, namely The Manchurian Candidate. The original had none other than Frank Sinatra playing the US Army intelligence officer.The martial arts/karate fight between him and the enemy agent who betrayed him was and still is awesome!
Thanks for what you said,man, and you have a good one!
Respectfully,
Ferdelance


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## davidm724 (Feb 17, 2007)

If there were long intermissions of nothing but the ring girls, I'd agree with the false advertising idea. But they're only being shown between rounds for about 10 seconds at a time. KOTC wouldn't be much good for any sort of porn channel because they simply don't offer much in that area. 
As for Wild-On, I've caught some of that and it's pretty good stuff. I'm not afraid to admit I've watched it a few times. Also, I've seen The Girls Next Door on E!, and it's pretty good too. Kind of a waste of time though, since they don't really show anything. They're still nice to watch. So, I'm cool with anything involving women because hey, I'm a dude. I appreciate women. The only thing is that MMA is a big part of my life. If MMA was a religion, I'd consider myself an apostle. I spread the gospel every day. I provide events for friends to demonstrate the power that is MMA. Even though I love women, I do not think that KOTC's approach does MMA justice. Inevitably, there will be a following of KOTC because a lot of us really enjoy a display of the ring girls that is less centered on classiness. My thought is that considering an overall potential audience, KOTC will turn many away, especially those men who have significant others watching over their shoulder.

Happy New Year!

Oh, and Payback was pretty good. I'm highly skeptical of remakes as well, but this was decent. Same story, but Mel Gibson instead of Marvin, and he's after 75,000. It's got some pretty funny parts. I'd give it a 6.5/10.


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## Ferdelance (Jul 18, 2006)

davidm724 said:


> If there were long intermissions of nothing but the ring girls, I'd agree with the false advertising idea. But they're only being shown between rounds for about 10 seconds at a time. KOTC wouldn't be much good for any sort of porn channel because they simply don't offer much in that area.
> As for Wild-On, I've caught some of that and it's pretty good stuff. I'm not afraid to admit I've watched it a few times. Also, I've seen The Girls Next Door on E!, and it's pretty good too. Kind of a waste of time though, since they don't really show anything. They're still nice to watch. So, I'm cool with anything involving women because hey, I'm a dude. I appreciate women. The only thing is that MMA is a big part of my life. If MMA was a religion, I'd consider myself an apostle. I spread the gospel every day. I provide events for friends to demonstrate the power that is MMA. Even though I love women, I do not think that KOTC's approach does MMA justice. Inevitably, there will be a following of KOTC because a lot of us really enjoy a display of the ring girls that is less centered on classiness. My thought is that considering an overall potential audience, KOTC will turn many away, especially those men who have significant others watching over their shoulder.
> 
> Happy New Year!
> ...



Gotcha.
Listen:you've gotten me to thinking about a couple of things,things that I am probably going to bring up as whole new threads in this forum,but since you got me started,I think that I'd like to give you first crack at this.
1.As a martial arts apostle, do you think that there are any myths about the martial arts out there, especially myths that you would like to see laid to rest?
2.About the ladies:If you were in the position of advising a woman on a martial art mainly for self-defense purposes,what would you advise her? One of my buddies is a nurse,recently another nurse was attacked in the elevator of the hospital where she worked,so now she's signed up for this women's self-defense cardio-kickboxing thing that is offered where she usually works out.
I don't know. Women's cardio-kickboxing sounds very McDojo to me.Also what should be taken into consideration is that where we are located, she is within driving distance of taking,say Gracie Jiu-jitsu,Muay thai, or Wing chun.
What do you think?


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## davidm724 (Feb 17, 2007)

Ferdelance said:


> Gotcha.
> Listen:you've gotten me to thinking about a couple of things,things that I am probably going to bring up as whole new threads in this forum,but since you got me started,I think that I'd like to give you first crack at this.
> 1.As a martial arts apostle, do you think that there are any myths about the martial arts out there, especially myths that you would like to see laid to rest?
> 2.About the ladies:If you were in the position of advising a woman on a martial art mainly for self-defense purposes,what would you advise her? One of my buddies is a nurse,recently another nurse was attacked in the elevator of the hospital where she worked,so now she's signed up for this women's self-defense cardio-kickboxing thing that is offered where she usually works out.
> ...


1. Do you mean myths about what martial arts are "the best" or "worthless" in regard to MMA? I know there are many opinions on what is the best or most effective martial art, but I believe any one martial art would be extremely ineffective when faced with mixed martial arts. I guess that's pretty obvious.
Example: a decorated BJJ fighter vs. a fighter with decent skills in Muay Thai, kickboxing, and wrestling... With the exception of MMA's early days when nobody understood BJJ, I believe the striker/wrestler would win this fight nearly every time if he came in with a gameplan. The BJJ guy would have the obvious game plan consisting of taking them down or pulling guard to work for submission, never intending to stand with their opponent. If the other fighter is a half-way decent wrestler, he'll defend the takedowns and get the fight back on the feet. As essential as BJJ is in MMA, it could not stand alone in today's MMA. Some could argue Royce Gracie's dominance in the early UFC's, but most of the guys had no idea what they were in for. BJJ is widely considered the absolute essential martial art in MMA, but it really only covers half the game. Sure, a mixed martial arts fighter would be at a huge disadvantage without it, but so would a fighter with no muay thai or kickboxing. If I had to call on a myth, I'd have to say that there is no "best" martial art in modern MMA. 

As for the "worst", well... I would hate to call any martial art the worst, or worthless or anything like that. However, some martial arts are more impractical than others, such as Wing Chun, Karate, and Tae Kwon Do. Their traditional styles just don't translate well in MMA. I am a fan of all of them by the way. I love watching each of them in their own competitions, but not MMA. A fighter who specializes in any of these would not fare well in MMA without a good amount of experience in other martial arts. All martial arts are a beautiful thing, and I love them all. I'm a little unsure about capoiera though... Anyway, it's all good to me. 

2. If a woman is looking for self-defense training, the absolute most important aspect of their training is that it makes them confident and comfortable. If they're not training specifically to fight, then they don't have to worry about training in a McDojo as long as they feel good about themselves and their ability. However, if a woman is looking to compete, which is gradually becoming more popular, then basic self-defense training will not be effective for anything other than learning a few basics and getting integrated in the sport. I'd say if a woman was out of shape and had no knowledge of martial arts, a self-defense course would be a great way to get started. Depending on their personality, getting into MMA comletely cold could be very discouraging, especially since a woman would be less likely to have any combat sport-related experience. Of course females in combat sports, even high school wrestling, is being seen much more often than in the past, so who knows, maybe they could jump into MMA and hang with the guys in the class.

Thanks for the first crack!


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## Hands Inc. (Oct 15, 2007)

Shut the Hell up.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

davidm724 said:


> I respect your stance on derogatory terms for women, as well as your view on the scantily clad ring girls. I know that their little outfits are supposed to leave little to the imagination. However, that's not what I was calling classless. If you watch the KOTC's from last year (those are the ones I saw), you'd know exactly what I'm talking about. I, just as any other man, enjoy watching the girls strut their stuff, but the point I'm trying to get across is merely the filming of the girls. It's like they handed the ring-girl-cam to a 13-year old with a hard-on. A couple times, they actually zoomed in and out repetitively on their ass or tits like the horny wolf in those cartoons making googly eyes while drooling profusely. That's just the image I get when they film like this. If you are offended by a man's use of the word "ho", surely you'd be offended by KOTC's portrayal of these women. I suggest you check out the show, and see what you think. My thought is merely that it is not a good strategy to promote our sport. If I was sitting down in the front row, surely I'd be looking at every inch of the girls, but some viewers on TV will not sit through such a display. That is why I feel it's a bad representation of our sport. Maybe, as stated before, KOTC is aiming for this sort of program. If so, that's cool. I'll continue to watch it. I just think it's an ineffective way to become a bigger organization.
> 
> As for the movie Point Blank, I saw it when I was really young (probably about 10 or so), and I remember watching the movie Payback, thinking they totally ripped off Point Blank. Then I realized it was just a remake. I liked the movie, but I can't remember many very specific parts or cool dialogue. Just thought it was good.


I remember watching one KotC event, and they put them cam on one of the black ring girls as she was adjusting her bikini because her nipple was poking out..trashy.


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## Ferdelance (Jul 18, 2006)

Angel Eyes said:


> LOL, interesting topic.
> 
> Yeah it is classless and tasteless but it has it's purpos. Most of the fans are men and inbetween all the sweaty, half naked men rolling around with each other they want to show some T&A. Zooming in on their boobs for 10 sec is a bit execesive though. It won't help them get taken seriously as an MMA federation but sex sells.


LOL,it is definitely,indeed,very definitely interesting to hear from a lady on this topic. I really wish that more ladies would speak up,not only here, but elsewhere in this forum because I feel that it would greatly contribute to the realization of truth on this and other topics if we also heard the feminine perspective.
That said, I am curious.
Please tell us more about you,Angel Eyes.
Are you a professional model or an aspirant, or a ring girl or an aspirant, or are you a competitor in the martial arts or some other athletic activity? Or do you have friends or family members who are martial artists or are otherwise involved in something related?
Sincerely,
Ferdelance
P.S. "Angel Eyes" is one of my favorite songs.There are so many lovely renditions of it by so many great artists.
One of my favorite is by Frank Sinatra.
The other is by jazz legend and innovator Dave Brubeck.
Beautiful,beautiful song:thumb03:


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## TheSpartan (Feb 13, 2008)

WoW I just go Ko'ed by Ferd's wall of text lol


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## TRENT205 (Jan 17, 2008)

well let me start off by saying, MMA isnt really a "classy" sport it is a sport where to men or women beat the piss out of each other. i dont know what part of the sportis classy or ever was classy or will ever be classy. dont twist what the sport is. if you want classy try polo. or horse back riding!


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## davidm724 (Feb 17, 2007)

I think you've hopped on the wrong forum. I suppose boxing is a classless sport too?


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## TRENT205 (Jan 17, 2008)

please my friend dont fool your self! i ama fighter, and i know this sport better than most! people can say boxing or whatever brand of MMA is classy, but the fact still remains, in a sport capible of such violence, please tell me where do you find the class, but better yet tell where to look for this so called, "class"! i just think people should stop trying to romantisize this sport and leave it alone. dont get me wrong i love this sport but lets see it for what it is.


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## davidm724 (Feb 17, 2007)

I guess "class" would be a matter of opinion. Any sport can be classy. I believe that's partly what makes a sport a sport. There seems to be more respect between two fighters than there is between entire teams, whether it be in Basketball, Baseball, Football, Soccer, Hockey, etc. The nature of MMA can lead one to think it is a brutal sport, or "human cockfighting" as US Senator/Presidential candidate John McCain put it, but no matter how gritty an organization can be, the sport of MMA itself is very classy simply because of the immense respect its competitors have for each other. Of course you've always got your epic bad-blood battles, where the fighters loathe each other, but typically when that fight is over, the fighters still congratulate each other and show respect. Again, these are my opinions, and you might have a different view of what constitutes class. Your opinion of a classy sport is Polo or Horseback riding, whereas I view them as pretentious. I do not deny their classiness, but I don't believe the "high society" status makes a sport classy. I also train to fight, but I love the sport for more than the fact that we get to beat the hell out of each other. There's so much respect and sportsmanship involved, and that mixed with extreme pugilism makes MMA the most beautiful, dynamic sport of all (in my opinion). You can say I am "romanticising" the sport, but I believe there is much more to MMA than sheer violence.


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## TheSpartan (Feb 13, 2008)

TRENT205 said:


> please my friend dont fool your self! i ama fighter, and i know this sport better than most! people can say boxing or whatever brand of MMA is classy, but the fact still remains, in a sport capible of such violence, please tell me where do you find the class, but better yet tell where to look for this so called, "class"! i just think people should stop trying to romantisize this sport and leave it alone. dont get me wrong i love this sport but lets see it for what it is.


The class in MMA comes from the fighters the ones that will hug or hi 5 their oppenent after a fight and continue on being friends and so forth thats my opinion the fact that 2 men can go head to head in a gladitorial match that brings people to their feet, and still come out of the cage to be cool guys and friends thats how its classy unlike boxing where they beat the hell out of each other get out of the ring and hold a grudge you can disagree if you want but fact of the matter is MMA has class


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

TRENT205 said:


> well let me start off by saying, MMA isnt really a "classy" sport it is a sport where to men or women beat the piss out of each other. i dont know what part of the sportis classy or ever was classy or will ever be classy. dont twist what the sport is. if you want classy try polo. or horse back riding!


I'd say there's a level of class involved in fighting, it's not like these guys are bums like Tank Abbott coming off the street and into the cage. Being a "fighter" yourself, you should realize that training itself requires discipline and in order to be classy, you must have some kind of discipline.

The fighting itself is not classy, but I fail to see how any sport doesn't require some level of class. The class comes between competitors, and I think it's most profoundly evident in MMA.


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## Ferdelance (Jul 18, 2006)

davidm724 said:


> I think you've hopped on the wrong forum. I suppose boxing is a classless sport too?


The first thing that came to my mind is the fact that everyone always spoke of what a fine gentleman Joe Louis was.
Usually champions of boxing were traditionally spoken of as fine gentleman.
I realize that perhaps Mike Tyson has a somewhat different public image, but in general, people like jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, or John L. Sullivan....Look at the article that appeared sometime ago on the last bare knuckle bout in the US, the epic battle between John L. Sullivan and Jack Kilrain.Look how they said that woman journalist/news reporter spoke of what a fine gentleman John L. Sullivan was...
Also, I am no historian, but if I am not mistaken, boxing at one time was considered an aristocratic sport, the same as jousting for knights, that boxing as a sport was something that was undertaken by members of the aristocracy as a manly,gentlemanly way of keeping fit...there are illusions to this in the classic novel Trilby by Du Maurier.
But before I go on, just to make sure that we are on the same page:
Define "Class."????
Okay?
Respectfully,
Ferdelance


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## davidm724 (Feb 17, 2007)

We are definitely on the same page. I agree with you completely that boxing is a classy sport. That's why I used boxing as an example to pose a question to TRENT205, who was stating that MMA is not classy, nor is it meant to be classy. I disagreed with him, and asked him "I suppose boxing is classless too?" It was an example, which illustrates my view that both MMA and boxing are classy sports. Of course I love MMA much more than boxing, but by no means was I saying boxing was classless. I agree with you, Mike Tyson was the only boxer I can think of off hand that was truly classless. He used to be extremely classy, until he lost it. 

Anyway, I believe "class" requires the display of respect toward your opponent and other fighters who enter the cage. It requires respect toward fans of the sport, as well as the acknowledgement of those who helped you get where you are. A classy fighter follows the rules, and does not blatantly cheat inside or outside the cage (ie. using performance enhancing drugs). Also, a classy figher loses gracefully, and shows respect and congratulates the winner. On the other hand, a classy fighter wins gracefully and (somewhat) humbly. Any winning fighter will be very excited, and may seem like they're not humble, but they don't talk down to their opponent. An example of a fighter who displayed a lack of class after "winning" would be Biping vs. Hamill. Bisping said "go back to wrestling" which was far from appropriate, seeing as how he definitely did not get a solid win. Bisping is normally a classy guy, but lost his composure after that fight. He was clearly exhausted, so I don't hold that comment against him too much. I don't like him as a fighter, but he is still a classy guy other than that one slip-up. Showboating after a fight like Tito and Grove's gravedigging is pretty retarded, but I believe showmanship is part of the sport, and doesn't necessarily mean they are classless. I can't stand either one of them though. 

I have a habit of rambling, sorry. So that's my idea of class, but I'm sure I forgot something.


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## Ferdelance (Jul 18, 2006)

And you know something? 
How did we forget the two most obvious examples of them all:
Mohammed Ali.
And Bruce Lee.
Is there anybody out there who is going to say that Ali doesn't have class?
And when I thought about it, it seems to me that much of this whole MMA is really a part of Bruce Lee's legacy, when you think about it.
Yes?
No?
And who is going to say that Bruce Lee didn't have class?


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## davidm724 (Feb 17, 2007)

Absolutely. If I compare these guys as well as other fighters to professional athletes in other sports, I believe I'd find more class among fighters. Of course we have our Michael Jordans and John Elways who are great sportsmen, but among all athletes in each sport, I believe class runs deepest in combat sports. It seems unlikely for such a sport as MMA, which is thought to be brutal and barbaric in some eyes, but I think it comes from the fact that a fighter typically has the utmost respect for anybody who is willing to step into the ring or cage. I believe MMA is the ultimate sport among men. In my opinion, it is as noble as knights in a jousting tournament, only in modern times. Anyway, I guess I've wandered off topic. So, how about them ring girls?


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## Ferdelance (Jul 18, 2006)

davidm724 said:


> Absolutely. If I compare these guys as well as other fighters to professional athletes in other sports, I believe I'd find more class among fighters. Of course we have our Michael Jordans and John Elways who are great sportsmen, but among all athletes in each sport, I believe class runs deepest in combat sports. It seems unlikely for such a sport as MMA, which is thought to be brutal and barbaric in some eyes, but I think it comes from the fact that a fighter typically has the utmost respect for anybody who is willing to step into the ring or cage. I believe MMA is the ultimate sport among men. In my opinion, it is as noble as knights in a jousting tournament, only in modern times. Anyway, I guess I've wandered off topic. So, how about them ring girls?


Exactly.
Once again we are not only on the same page but the exact same line on the same page.
What I think happened here is that the gentleman was trying to put everything down.He's putting the sport down as having no class, so what he is implying is that,if the sport itself has no class, then we are not to expect any kind of class with regard to anything else associated with it.
I think that we have dealt with that.
If he says that the fight game has no class, look at Mohammed Ali.I think you are right;there really is no celebrity today who exhibits as much class as Ali, when you think about it.And this goes way beyond sports.Any celebrity.Especially when you look at celebrities associated with music, or the cinema.....forget about it.
They can't hold a candle to Ali with regard to class.
And you know, that is also true for anyone else who has a name in the fight game.Look at the guy Sugar Ray Leonard admired:Sugar Ray Robinson.
Tell me that he had no class.
Any of the those guys:Sugar Ray Robinson, Archie Moore, or the legendary Rocky Marciano.
Marciano was a true class act,too, you know.
So yes, boxing, and the MMA do have class people in the forefront, and we definitely have class people in the audience:Look at the people who came to Ali:Frazier I.
Frank Sinatra was seated in the front row, for cryin' out loud!And all the rest of the who's who were there, too.
So this guy's thesis just doesn't hold water.
The sport can be classy, the participants in the sport can be classy, there can definitely be class people in the audience, and back to the thread:
I have had the privilege of not only meeting some models recently, but I also met a couple of Playboy photographers.
The point here is that treatment of female beauty in the photographic media is something that can be done with a greal deal of class.
I mentioned supermodel Brooke Burke with regard to her former role in Wild On on the E! channel. I have recently seen some photographs of her on the Internet that are hot as can be, and yet they are also very, very classy pictures.
That is an example that comes to mind, and like you say, and we were on the same page with this one,too, any regular guy can probably think of pictures or movies or something that he's seen where a beautiful woman, a hot, sexy woman, was photographed in a way that was nothing but class,nothing but class all the way, and the classy treatment helped make that picture a winner.
so what about the girls?
You know, I have been so busy, I still haven't had a chance to see KOTC or the girls.
do all of the video outlets have this? Or where would you recommend that I go to check this out?
I really think that,if they worked on bringing some class to this, they might even be more effective.
LIke, who would say that Wild On! wasn't classy?
And wasn't it effective in terms of what they were trying to do?
Just my opinion, and what I heard,
yours truly,
Ferdelance


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## Grappler125 (Jan 23, 2007)

Wow, did I click on the wrong thread or what? I went to this thread because I figured there would be pics of the KOTC ring girls, and I also figured that being a smaller, seedier organization than the UFC, their ring girls would dress sluttier. Then I see all this serious conversation. I guess I'll have to look elsewhere.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

Grappler125 said:


> Wow, did I click on the wrong thread or what? I went to this thread because I figured there would be pics of the KOTC ring girls, and I also figured that being a smaller, seedier organization than the UFC, their ring girls would dress sluttier. Then I see all this serious conversation. I guess I'll have to look elsewhere.


LOL

I pretty much expected the same thing...then saw all these 'words' ! LOL

btw, the KOTC ring girls are aight... cage rage girls are stankier.. one notch above strippers... and the camera work is about on par with the ULTRA zoom... I half expect to see their ovaries at some point.

Besides, these girls are much better than the 'so you wanna fight' girls


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## mmawrestler (May 18, 2008)

ya man KOTC ring girls are ******* hot,
I remember i was ringside at a KOTC show and this one really hot ring girl kept running by in a hurry like every 30 seconds, running made everything alot better lol, but some of the ring girls were just unreal


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