# Jake Shields Will Toy With GSP On The Ground



## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

a Cesar Gracie Black belt vs a guy who learned how to properly do an armbar in the locker-room of the Dan Hardy fight. Jake Shields is a 3X all-american wrestler, who will pull guard , sweep gsp , and tko or positionally dominate gsp.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Shields won't be able to take him down. GSP is just going to jab Shields with absolutely no intention to finish for yet another boring 25 minute decision.

Just thinking of this fight makes me sleepy.


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## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

doesn't have to take him down.... will pull guard, can sub him standing with a guillotine like he did robbie lawler...


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## Relavate (Dec 21, 2010)

Your a troll shut up. Gsp will murder this kid nuff said.


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## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

As much as I wish that would happen I highly doubt it.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

where do i start, 1. jakes shields struggled to get the kampmann to the ground and gsp is a wrestling machine who can stuff and take you down at will, 2. gsp will destroy shields in the stand up because shields is abysmal at best and finally shields got a mount on kampmann and did nothing at all with it and got thrown off immediately.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

RightCross said:


> a Cesar Gracie Black belt vs a guy who learned how to properly do an armbar in the locker-room of the Dan Hardy fight. Jake Shields is a 3X all-american wrestler, who will pull guard , sweep gsp , and tko or positionally dominate gsp.


It would be nice if it happened but Your post made me LOL 

I suggest you wake up from your dream :laugh:


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

RightCross said:


> a Cesar Gracie Black belt vs a guy who learned how to properly do an armbar in the locker-room of the Dan Hardy fight. Jake Shields is a 3X all-american wrestler, who will pull guard , sweep gsp , and tko or positionally dominate gsp.


Explain the Kampmann fight then


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## HellRazor (Sep 24, 2006)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> Explain the Kampmann fight then


Easy. Shields has been fighting substandard competition. Facing a UFC guy who has zero chance of beating GSP, he struggled.

He won't strugle vs GSP, he'll lose. And in reputation breaking manner.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

UFC_OWNS said:


> where do i start, 1. jakes shields struggled to get the kampmann to the ground and gsp is a wrestling machine who can stuff and take you down at will, 2. gsp will destroy shields in the stand up because shields is abysmal at best and finally shields got a mount on kampmann and did nothing at all with it and got thrown off immediately.


Your exaggerating, shields has a better striking game than most give him credit for, clearly he's not going to win the fight standing but he'll be clinching GSP a lot and trying to take him down from there that in itself will take away some of GSP's advantages striking.

With that said GSP should beat him and do so convincingly.

The OP just sounds like a fanboy to me.


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

RightCross said:


> a Cesar Gracie Black belt vs a guy who learned how to properly do an armbar in the locker-room of the Dan Hardy fight. Jake Shields is a 3X all-american wrestler, who will pull guard , sweep gsp , and tko or positionally dominate gsp.


You made me LOL hard with the thought of Jake Shields' pillow hands TKO'ing someone...:thumb01:


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

slapshot said:


> Your exaggerating, shields has a better striking game than most give him credit for, clearly he's not going to win the fight standing but he'll be clinching GSP a lot and trying to take him down from there that in itself will take away some of GSP's advantages striking.
> 
> With that said GSP should beat him and do so convincingly.
> 
> The OP just sounds like a fanboy to me.


martin kampmann kicked his ass, shields ate about 4 good knees and some easily avoidable punches and shields was trying for dear life to get the takedown, thats why martin was upset for losing while doing more damage


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

How did Kampmann somehow manage to "survive" all the way too a split decision that some people, including me think he won.....


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## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

HellRazor said:


> Easy. Shields has been fighting substandard competition. Facing a UFC guy who has zero chance of beating GSP, he struggled.
> 
> He won't strugle vs GSP, he'll lose. And in reputation breaking manner.[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

No it's not:thumbsdown:


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## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

there was a great fighter roy jones jr... so great, he went to heavyweight... when he came back down in weight , he struggled. jake went to 185 , something gsp said he is TOO SMALL to do. he went back down to 170 and it affected him.

yes, it is way better than the hughes times 3 kos times 2 serra times 2 and penn times 2


enough of the rematches, really.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

I agree with the OP.

If the fight goes to the ground Shields will win. I think it will.

GSP pretty much just has the edge in striking, but his power is weak and Shields can take a big shot.

Shields clearly beat Kampmann, wasn't even close.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

RightCross said:


> substandard competition... jake has a better resume' than gsp..... don't believe me?
> 
> 1. Dan Henderson 185/ gsp won't fight 185 *The same Henderson who flash koed Shields in the 1st round but the ref didn't see it.*
> 2. Robbie Lawler / 185 *The same Lawler who would be thoroughly trounced by GSP even at 185*
> ...


Hughes 2x (in his prime), Kos 2x, Fitch, BJ 2x, Alves, Hardy, Serra, Mayhem, Trigg (in his prime)

Yeah Shields resume seems great... unless you know what you are talking about. Shields struggled badly against Kampmann. A fighter GSP would have mauled casually. His striking is absolutely awful, he's not even close to explosive or quick, and I just don't think he'll be able to get GSP down. 

And GSP isn't just going to give him a standing guillotine like Robbie Lawler.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

RightCross said:


> there was a great fighter roy jones jr... so great, he went to heavyweight... when he came back down in weight , he struggled. jake went to 185 , something gsp said he is TOO SMALL to do. he went back down to 170 and it affected him.


I think Gsp said when he decides to move up he wants to do it the right way and gain weight gradually. He's gained 7-8 lbs of muscle in the last year and wants to gain the same amount again in the next before moving up. 

Like most I believe Henderson was injured, Miller was dominated by GSP, and Robbie Lawler, really?


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

RustyRenegade said:


> I think Gsp said when he decides to move up he wants to do it the right way and gain weight gradually. He's gained 7-8 lbs of muscle in the last year and wants to gain the same amount again in the next before moving up.
> 
> Like most I believe Henderson was injured, Miller was dominated by GSP, and Robbie Lawler, really?


Henderson actually confirmed that he was injured and on pain killers when he fought Shields. Which didn't stop him from dropping Jake what three times? Then he gassed after the second and just let Jake coast to the win.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> I agree with the OP.
> 
> If the fight goes to the ground Shields will win. I think it will.
> 
> ...


The only way it goes to the ground is if GSP takes it there. Doubt he does anything but uses his boxing in this fight but he'll be fine either way.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Jake won that fight, hard for me to see it any other way. kampmann has good stand up and came into the fight knowing he needed a win but I never saw him hurt Shields in that fight, point blank what he did was not enough.

Its not like he's some kind of can, kampmann is a well rounded fighter with fast hands. I understand some dont like shields fightstyle but to let that cloud your judgment enough to say he got his ass kicked is one of two things.

Your a hater or a hugger maybe a bit of both?


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Actually he dropped Shields a couple of times in the clinch. There was a particularly vicious knee in the 3rd round that dropped him hard. So he was hurt multiple times. I firmly believe that if Kampmann hadn't followed him to the ground when he was hurt he would have won. Easily at that.

And I am neith a hugger nor a hater. I don't really care about Kampmann or Shields.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

I have a present for the OP.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

RustyRenegade said:


> The only way it goes to the ground is if GSP takes it there. Doubt he does anything but uses his boxing in this fight but he'll be fine either way.


Shields is a great collegiate wrestler, not only can he take GSP down, he can pull guard as well.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Roflcopter said:


> Shields is a great collegiate wrestler, not only can he take GSP down, he can pull guard as well.


Kos is a better one and we see how that worked out right?


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

deadmanshand said:


> Hughes 2x (in his prime), Kos 2x, Fitch, BJ 2x, Alves, Hardy, Serra, Mayhem, Trigg (in his prime)
> 
> Yeah Shields resume seems great... unless you know what you are talking about. Shields struggled badly against Kampmann. A fighter GSP would have mauled casually. His striking is absolutely awful, he's not even close to explosive or quick, and I just don't think he'll be able to get GSP down.
> 
> And GSP isn't just going to give him a standing guillotine like Robbie Lawler.


He never beat Hughes in his prime. Hughes was on the downslide of his career even the first time GSP beat him. Get out with that shit. Serra knocked his ass out and is mediocre at best.

The best names on his resume are Kos, BJ, Fitch, Alves.

BJ obviously being blown up and undersized and Alves being weight drained to hell. So, yeah, he beat Koscheck and Fitch. Cool. Shields is much better than both of those guys in grappling.



deadmanshand said:


> Kos is a better one and we see how that worked out right?



Stuffing nearly all of GSP's TDs? Getting the takedown one of the only times he tried?

Yeah, worked out pretty well. If Kos wasn't a mental midget and didn't think he could win every fight by loading up and landing one overhand right he might've won that fight.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> Shields is a great collegiate wrestler, not only can he take GSP down, he can pull guard as well.


How many great collegiate wrestlers has GSP dominated in that exact discipline? This isn't collegiate wrestling either. His MMA wrestling is on another level.

Do you have a paypal account rofl?


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

RightCross said:


> a Cesar Gracie Black belt vs a guy who learned how to properly do an armbar in the locker-room of the Dan Hardy fight. Jake Shields is a 3X all-american wrestler, who will pull guard , sweep gsp , and tko or positionally dominate gsp.


shields pulls guard and sweeps him ill eat my dick. 

GSP by TKO.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> *He never beat Hughes in his prime. Hughes was on the downslide of his career even the first time GSP beat him.* Get out with that shit. Serra knocked his ass out and is mediocre at best.
> 
> The best names on his resume are Kos, BJ, Fitch, Alves.
> 
> BJ obviously being blown up and undersized and Alves being weight drained to hell. So, yeah, he beat Koscheck and Fitch. Cool. Shields is much better than both of those guys in grappling.


Hughes was on the down-slide while he was the reigning WW champion? On a 6 fight win streak and coming off a win vs. BJ?

And what is with the excuses for BJ and Alves? BJ is back at 170 now and Alves still fights there comfortbly making weight now. Now of that amkes any sense.


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## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

deadmanshand said:


> Kos is a better one and we see how that worked out right?







kos wanted a stand-up battle... jake has no illusions of being floyd mayweather on his feet


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

***** de Amigo said:


> shields pulls guard and sweeps him ill eat my dick.
> 
> GSP by TKO.


I got another one you can wash it down with if you like. Had to do it


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## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

Roflcopter said:


> He never beat Hughes in his prime. Hughes was on the downslide of his career even the first time GSP beat him. Get out with that shit. Serra knocked his ass out and is mediocre at best.
> 
> The best names on his resume are Kos, BJ, Fitch, Alves.
> 
> ...






good analysis, agree 100 percent



RustyRenegade said:


> The only way it goes to the ground is if GSP takes it there. Doubt he does anything but uses his boxing in this fight but he'll be fine either way.





jake cant shoot takedowns? cause a scramble... land on top/ or standing guillotine? jake can't pull guard/sweep??


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Roflcopter said:


> He never beat Hughes in his prime. Hughes was on the downslide of his career even the first time GSP beat him. Get out with that shit. Serra knocked his ass out and is mediocre at best.
> 
> The best names on his resume are Kos, BJ, Fitch, Alves.
> 
> ...


Wow... where to start. Hughes was smashing people when GSP beat the holy hell out of him the first time. That's called being in his prime. Serra caught him fair and square but did you catch the rematch? BJ is dangerous no matter the weight. It's his mentality that gets him into trouble. Kos is a better, more explosive wrestler than Shields. He just is. Fitch has a far more complete game than Shields. Fitch would easily decision SHields. He could probably out strike him if he felt like it. ALves is no worse a win for GSP than Daly is for Shields. Pretty comparable though I think Alves has better tdd. 

As for Kos and wrestling... yeah. He wasn't winning the wrestling part of their match. He gotten taken down more often even though GSP went after only slight more td attempts. The reason he didn't even try after a while was because he couldn't keep up the explosive tds he needed to put GSP down for 25 minutes - especially with a broken orbital bone. 

And I am done in this thread. Arguing with trolls is bad for my blood pressure.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

***** de Amigo said:


> shields pulls guard and sweeps him ill eat my dick.
> 
> GSP by TKO.


Video or it didn't happen.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Ape City said:


> Hughes was on the down-slide while he was the reigning WW champion? On a 6 fight win streak and coming off a win vs. BJ?
> 
> And what is with the excuses for BJ and Alves? BJ is back at 170 now and Alves still fights there comfortbly making weight now. Now of that amkes any sense.


BJ barely even made the maximum. :laugh:

Alves just now has gotten his weight under control, and that was because his ass was almost forced to move to 185. He actually has a diet plan now and doesn't balloon up to ridiculous proportions anymore. His last 3 fights before that he was weight drained as hell, he finally looked healthy now.

And yes, Hughes was on the downslide, are you serious?

Next you are going to tell me Anderson is still in his prime because he's still the champ on a wining streak. :confused03:


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

I'd like to make a bet rofl and would like to know if you have paypal. If you do how bout fifty bucks?


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

RustyRenegade said:


> How many great collegiate wrestlers has GSP dominated in that exact discipline? This isn't collegiate wrestling either. His MMA wrestling is on another level.
> 
> Do you have a paypal account rofl?


Fitch.


And no.

I wouldn't bet on MMA anyway unless there is over/unders.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> Fitch.
> 
> 
> And no.


Figures. At least you'll keep talking without backing it upraise01:


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## ArcherCC (Dec 12, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> And yes, Hughes was on the downslide, are you serious?


A 6 fight win streak of smashing people into the ground, then losing to GSp, yea Hughes was on such a downward spiral when GSP beat him.

lets see when GSP beat him Hughes had just beaten

Penn: TKO
Trigg: Rear Naked Choke
Royce Gracie: TKO
Joe Riggs: Kimura
GSP: Armbar
Renato Verissimo: Decision


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

RustyRenegade said:


> Figures. At least you'll keep talking without backing it upraise01:


I'd rather not waste money?

Gambling is for fools.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> I'd rather not waste money?
> 
> Gambling is for fools.


It's only foolish if you don't know you'll win.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Life B Ez said:


> It's only foolish if you don't know you'll win.


Which is always. Hence, it's called "gambling".

:sarcastic12:


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## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

RightCross said:


> a Cesar Gracie Black belt vs a guy who learned how to properly do an armbar in the locker-room of the Dan Hardy fight. Jake Shields is a 3X all-american wrestler, who will pull guard , sweep gsp , and tko or positionally dominate gsp.


Pulling guard is a LOT harder in MMA than with a Gi on.

Shields no doubt has better BJJ, but he won't be able to get GSP down and his stand-up is so bad he is going to cop an absolute beating on the feet.

I really think this fight will be one-sided purely because of the style matchup. Even though Shields is a lot better than some of the other guys GSP couldn't stop.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> I'd rather not waste money?
> 
> Gambling is for fools.


A popular defense amongst people who only talk big, not bet big:angry02:


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

RightCross said:


> a Cesar Gracie Black belt vs a guy who learned how to properly do an armbar in the locker-room of the Dan Hardy fight. Jake Shields is a 3X all-american wrestler, who will pull guard , sweep gsp , and tko or positionally dominate gsp.


A Cesar Gracie Black Belt with very questionable cardio at 170, and horrible stand-up. GSP is not scared.



RightCross said:


> doesn't have to take him down.... will pull guard, can sub him standing with a guillotine like he did robbie lawler...


Yes because Robbie Lawler absolutely has an equal ground game and sub defense to GSP. :sarcastic12:


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> Which is always. Hence, it's called "gambling".
> 
> :sarcastic12:


Clearly not following...it was kind of my way of telling you that you're wrong. :thumb02:


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## TheJame (Sep 3, 2006)

Would you guys shut up about the gambling? The guy's not an idiot for turning down a $50 bet on an internet forum. Other guy is the idiot for asking then taunting after he said no. 

ANYway, no one will "toy" with GSP on the ground. Shields is great at what he does but he's not complete enough to compete with GSP. He'll be embarrassed.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Roflcopter said:


> He never beat Hughes in his prime. Hughes was on the downslide of his career even the first time GSP beat him. Get out with that shit. Serra knocked his ass out and is mediocre at best.
> 
> The best names on his resume are Kos, BJ, Fitch, Alves.
> 
> BJ obviously being blown up and undersized and Alves being weight drained to hell. So, yeah, he beat Koscheck and Fitch. Cool. Shields is much better than both of those guys in grappling.


Dude are you for real? 

The most dominant champion in WW history and you just shit on his resume like you've accomplished something in MMA? 

You basically just made excuses as to why 80% of his wins meant nothing, were against has-beens, or were because of his opponents inability to make weight. Pathetic. Do you even think about what you're typing while you type it? Do you read what you type afterwards?

Incredibly bias, and ignorant fans like yourself are why I enjoy each GSP manhandling of top-tier fighters more than the last.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

TheJame said:


> Would you guys shut up about the gambling? The guy's not an idiot for turning down a $50 bet on an internet forum. Other guy is the idiot for asking then taunting after he said no.
> 
> ANYway, no one will "toy" with GSP on the ground. Shields is great at what he does but he's not complete enough to compete with GSP. He'll be embarrassed.


I only call for a bet when someone talks like they are confident enough to make one. The guy is an idiot regardless of making a bet or not btw.

Wasn't anyone asking your opinion either James.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> BJ barely even made the maximum. :laugh:
> 
> Alves just now has gotten his weight under control, and that was because his ass was almost forced to move to 185. He actually has a diet plan now and doesn't balloon up to ridiculous proportions anymore. His last 3 fights before that he was weight drained as hell, he finally looked healthy now.
> 
> ...


Okay let's pretend I agree with you. What does this have to do with the OP stating Jake will sweep, takedown, and/or dominate GSP.

How does Alves' weight and Hughes debatable "primeness" have anything to do with Jake shields ability to dominate GSP on the ground?


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

None really, but fact is GSP has never fought a grappler like Jake.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

I think Shields capable of winning some rounds with some top control but GSP will probably gameplan the **** out of Shields like he does everybody else.

Shields I think has the best wrestling + ground game GSP has ever faced. He isn't going to double leg shoot in. He's gonna mix it, try to get inside/clinch/against the cage, and put more pressure on GSP than anybody else ever has.

Of course he's going to be eating strikes all the way through and defending GSP's TD attempts.


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## zarny (Mar 4, 2007)

LOL...keep dreamin.

GSP is going to use Shields' face as a speed bag.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

Can somebody remember to bring this thread back up after GSP dominates Jake Shields in every aspect of mma? Cause I know I'm going to forget.


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## zarny (Mar 4, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> He never beat Hughes in his prime. Hughes was on the downslide of his career even the first time GSP beat him. Get out with that shit. Serra knocked his ass out and is mediocre at best.
> 
> The best names on his resume are Kos, BJ, Fitch, Alves.
> 
> BJ obviously being blown up and undersized and Alves being weight drained to hell. So, yeah, he beat Koscheck and Fitch. Cool. Shields is much better than both of those guys in grappling.





LOL...and who has Shields ever beat?

Dan Henderson...10 years past his prime?

Paul Daley...a guy Koscheck pwned.

Shields couldn't even finish Jason Miller. 

Shields' resume is a list of cans compared to GSP's.

And on April 30th you're going to see how bad Jake Shields' striking really is.


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## Ruckus (Oct 2, 2009)

I can't believe I read this entire trolled out thread. Jake Shields? Are you serious? That in no way is meant to be disrespectful to Shields, I just don't think he is in the same league as GSP. Like many have said before, this is an mma match, not a grappling match and I see GSP finally getting the finish he has been trying to get his last few fights out.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

jake shields will be surprised to see that the day after he faces gsp he will have two assholes.


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## kano666 (Nov 2, 2007)

RightCross said:


> Jake Shields Will Toy With GSP On The Ground
> 
> a Cesar Gracie Black belt vs a guy who learned how to properly do an armbar in the locker-room of the Dan Hardy fight. Jake Shields is a 3X all-american wrestler, who will pull guard , sweep gsp , and tko or positionally dominate gsp.


Bold prediction. We'll see!


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

zarny said:


> Shields couldn't even finish Jason Miller.


GSP couldn't either. Nor could Jacare. Or Sonnen.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Lmao... every fighter that faces GSP is supposed to beat him... yet they all get dominated. It wont be any different here.... GSP is the best.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

.001 seconds into the fight, Jake Shields will realize he feels very uncomfortable wrestling with a man wearing speedos. GSP will exploit this homophobic reaction to WTF pwn Shields with his deadly shaolin vaseline techniques.

Shields only recourse will be to stand and brawl & GSP will then finish him with his mighty jab of thunderous doom.

Yeah.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Its a win win for sheilds, he is going to take gsp down or gsp will take him down. I just pray gsp does not whoop his ass to bad so when he take him down sheild can actually fight back.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

wukkadb said:


> GSP couldn't either. Nor could Jacare. Or Sonnen.


Frank Trigg did....Frank Trigg is the best.

I think Gsp will just jab him in the face for 5 rounds if he wants. I think GSP will decide where the fight takes place and will choose to stand as that is Shields worst place to be.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

GSP really better keep it standing. Because if it hits the ground Jake is gonna put him through the grinder.. GSP is an awesome fighter but Jake has a big advantage once the fight leaves the striking area.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

I am a huge fan of both fighters but GSP's in and out striking will easily overshadow Shield's stiff striking. I see a confused Shields trying to chase down GSP round after round until his face looks like a pizza.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

After I saw what GSP did too Josh.. I almost lost all my faith in Jake to put on a great competetive bout.

I really thought Josh could push the pace, take almost everything GSP has to offer and still come forward and at least hit him a couple of times standing up and make this exciting until the very last minute of the fight.. but he was just completely outclassed on the feet and GSP never was in any kind of danger!


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## Dan0 (Aug 22, 2008)

"GSP has nothing on this challenger and he will get exposed in this fight" -> GSP wins in a clear, dominating fashion -> "Obviously, the challenger had problems with the weight cut/was out of his prime/was coming in with the wrong gameplan/had an off night" -> The next challenger is announced 
-> "GSP has nothing on this challenger and he will get exposed in this fight" -> ...

And so the cycle continues.


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## TheReturn (Sep 26, 2010)

Dear Op, you cant post april fool jokes until april bro.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

This is fail.... Shields will get owned


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

OP's presentation is terrible. 

However. GSP's weakness is his bottom game. 

When Koscheck managed a takedown. GSP looked slow initially. He had to think of what to do. His bottom game isn't ingrained into his muscle memory. When he's on top, he doesn't think or look, he just passes. On the bottom he had to look, and think, and take a moment before scrambling. This was possible because Koscheck gave him space and didn't apply enough pressure on top. 

Shields has never left space while in guard, someone's butterfly, or half. He suffocates them with pressure on top and easily passes as well, or better, than GSP. 

The big X factor is can Shields take GSP down. If people want to compare Shields to GSP, compare their entire careers, not just Shields vs Kampmann. Shields has taken down every single opponent he has ever fought in his entire career. Can Shields takedown the self described "anti-wrestler?" I don't know. But I do expect him to shoot, and shoot and shoot and shoot, and power through with each shot. This won't be like Koscheck shooting, getting sprawled and sliding back. Shields powers through his takedowns. If he can't double or single GSP, he'll push GSP against the cage and work for a trip or body throw. We saw against Kampmann that even gassed and sucked up from a difficult weight cut that Shields could still get the takedown, and the mount, with absolute ease. 

All that being said, I believe GSP will win. I think Shields WILL score takedowns, but I believe GSP will be able to stifle his passes and limit GnP. He will be stood up by the ref, or stand up himself, and pepper Shields with jabs, maybe a few 1, 2's, and leg kicks. GSP by closer-than-usual UD.


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## Abrissbirne (Jul 4, 2010)

AlphaDawg said:


> Shields won't be able to take him down. GSP is just going to jab Shields with absolutely no intention to finish for yet another boring 25 minute decision.
> 
> Just thinking of this fight makes me sleepy.


No way this will go to the distance. GSP will tko him, Shields isnt as tough as Kos.


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## TheReturn (Sep 26, 2010)

I would be very happy with a tko


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## badboy (Aug 1, 2009)

I'm a fan of neither one of these guys but Shields will dismantle GSP. Everyone goes on about how GSP has excellent striking this, unstoppable wrestling that becuase he beat Kos standing or he beat Dan Hardy on the ground etc. Fact is, Kos has never been an elite striker or anywhere close. GSP is boring (as is Shields)! WOW he beat Koscheck with his jab! Did he knock him out? Did it get stopped?? Nope. When GSP takes people to ground, he only pulls off a submission once every blue moon...What I'm trying to say is if you're gonna stand and trade with someone go out to finish them, if youre going to take it to the ground submit or finish them. GSP cares for none of them!!!...It's like in a game of football (or soccer to most of you) if two teams go out and dont play attacking football and just aim on trying not to lose then that makes for a boring match and you can bet your life on it that the fans would let them know how they feel as well.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Abrissbirne said:


> No way this will go to the distance. GSP will tko him, Shields isnt as tough as Kos.


You watched the Henderson fight right? or how he didn't quit when Mayhem had a RNC locked in tight?

The key to this fight is Shields' shot. If Shields is good enough to get GSP to the ground he could very well end the fight by sub. Shields might not have finished Jason Miller, but Mayhem has some of, if not the best Sub defence in the game, it's no shame not submitting him. Shields is a serious contender to GSP. He has the best Jitz at 170, and some very, very good wrestling. The question will be whether his shot is good enough to get GSP down. I personally don't think it will be, and see GSP picking Shields apart on the feet on the way to a decision victory.


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

Shields is going to get worked. 'Nuff said.


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## Steroid Steve (Oct 1, 2010)

I wouldn't say just because Kos got his ass whooped, the same will happen to Shields. For one, Kos literally limited himself to a punchers chance. The one area he was stronger in, which is his wrestling, he completely abandoned in the fight. Like someone said, the guy is a mental midget. He didn't show any urgency to work GSP in taking him down. I know people can say that he couldn't get close to GSP, but I honestly believe if he applied enough pressure, he could have taken GSP down when he wanted to. 

I don't think Shields will shrink under pressure limit himself like that. He has shown to stick to his gameplan even through adversity. He will be relentless with his grappling. We can say GSP will come up with the perfect gameplan, but I can almost guarantee that GSP will not want to go to the ground with this guy. That will be his gameplan in a nutshell. Not rocket science at all... I think if Shields has acclimated to 170 better, and if he starts out with urgency, he will get GSP on the ground. If I can say anything bad about GSP, it is that GSP is known to start out slow in his fights. Getting taken down can turn into a snowball effect... GSP definitely is favored, but lets not fool ourselves that Shields doesn't have a chance, and use the Kos v GSP fight as some way to logically explain why he doesn't


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Squirrelfighter said:


> OP's presentation is terrible.
> 
> However. GSP's weakness is his bottom game.
> 
> ...


This is what's up.


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## nastyblow (Oct 10, 2006)

for the next 4 months gsp is training countering a td with a knee to the face. Shields tries that twice and he'll be so deflated...

Mind blank, who's announced as next challenger to 170 title after this fight?


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

nastyblow said:


> for the next 4 months gsp is training countering a td with a knee to the face. Shields tries that twice and he'll be so deflated...
> 
> *Mind blank, who's announced as next challenger to 170 title after this fight?*


Penn vs. Fitch :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

nastyblow said:


> for the next 4 months gsp is training countering a td with a knee to the face. Shields tries that twice and he'll be so deflated...
> 
> Mind blank, who's announced as next challenger to 170 title after this fight?


damn, i would not want to be the guy who's doing thousands of drills diving into GSP's knee...


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Jake Shields does have much better bjj, but this isnt going to be a pure grappeling or bjj match, its an mma match. Jake Shields has one of the best ground games in mma, but GSP is one of the hardest fighters in mma to take down, even harder to keep down once you get him there. Im a big Shields fan, but I dont think he will come out on top in this one. He looked like pure hell against Kampman. If he comes into the GSP fight in anything less then the best shape of his life, this is going to be a fight that ends in less then three rounds.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

GSP is basically going to do whatever he wants to do in this fight. When will people learn that the current GSP is basically unbeatable. The only way GSP will lose any time soon is by miracle sub/ko, because nobody is just better than him or even close for that matter. I don't see Jake getting any miracle subs or a ko. If anyone wants to sig bet on this fight send me a pm.


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## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

zarny said:


> LOL...and who has Shields ever beat?
> 
> Dan Henderson...10 years past his prime?
> 
> ...


Dan Henderson isn't ten years past his prime.. that is ridiculous...

paul daley is the best striker at ww with very good tdd

shields couldn't finish mayhem... neither could gsp


why don't you look up millers record and tell me who actually finished him... ill be waiting for your answer.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

LOL @ 'Paul Daley has good tdd'

I like Dan Henderson and Mayhem, so I'll not knock them. And damned if I don't like Jake Shields, as well. I want to believe that this will somehow be a competitive fight, but I've simply learned that's unlikely to be the case with GSP for the foreseeable future. Jake certainly poses risks on the ground, but I only see the fight going there if GSP so allows it. Sorry, lad. Hope I'm wrong, as again, I'd like for it to be a spirited war. But I gather it'll be a repeat of GSP vs. Kos, only with a potential finish.


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## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

diablo5597 said:


> GSP is basically going to do whatever he wants to do in this fight. When will people learn that the current GSP is basically unbeatable. The only way GSP will lose any time soon is by miracle sub/ko, because nobody is just better than him or even close for that matter. I don't see Jake getting any miracle subs or a ko. If anyone wants to sig bet on this fight send me a pm.





actually, gsp isn't the best at any one discipline in mma... he stands with paul daley , he loses, he grapples with shields , he loses... he isn't even the biggest, or the strongest.. the hype is outta control


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

RightCross said:


> actually, gsp isn't the best at any one discipline in mma... he stands with paul daley , he loses, he grapples with shields , he loses... he isn't even the biggest, or the strongest.. the hype is outta control


I think how well rounded is what makes GSP able to beat just about anyone.


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

The hype is well earned


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

RightCross said:


> actually, gsp isn't the best at any one discipline in mma... he stands with paul daley , he loses, he grapples with shields , he loses... he isn't even the biggest, or the strongest.. the hype is outta control


Paul Daley is a world class striker. That means zilch when he gets taken down and dominated for three rounds by a superior wrestler. Demian Maia is a world class BJJ artist. That means zilch when he can't get the fight to the ground and subsequently gets picked apart on the feet by a superior striker. Your point is not only ridiculous, but null and void. It's MMA. GSP doesn't have to be the best in any one regard so long as he's effective in _all_ regards. 

Still hungry?


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)




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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

_RIVAL_ said:


> GSP really better keep it standing. Because if it hits the ground Jake is gonna put him through the grinder.. GSP is an awesome fighter but Jake has a big advantage once the fight leaves the striking area.


This keep getting mentioned but I don't really understand why it is being treated as fact.

What evidence do we have that Shields is even equal GSP in wrestling or grappling, let alone evidence that shields is better than GSP?

GSP has beaten two ncaa div 1 wrestlers in Kos and Fitch at their own games and beaten BJ Penn twice. I think he has been pretty much tested vs a very high level of talent using just these three fighters as examples. I see nothing on Shields' resume nor have I seen anything during his fights (especially his most recent) that makes me believe his skill level is equal to GSP's or greater on the ground.

Who are some elite, top 5, wrestlers or BJJ practitioners that shields has beat other than Hendo?


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Paul Daley is a world class striker. That means zilch when he gets taken down and dominated for three rounds by a superior wrestler. Demian Maia is a world class BJJ artist. That means zilch when he can't get the fight to the ground and subsequently gets picked apart on the feet by a superior striker. Your point is not only ridiculous, but null and void. It's MMA. GSP doesn't have to be the best in any one regard so long as he's effective in _all_ regards.


Yup. GSP is way better than everyone else at some aspect of the MMA game, and he can get the fight there and keep it there. There are better grapplers but none of them can stand & trade with him, GSP has the skills to keep the fight standing and beat them up all night long. There may be better strikers but none of them can even come close to him on the ground, and once again he has the skills to take them down and beat'em up all night long. Fact is GSP has the skills to exploit the weaknesses in every fighter that he faces and he does so every single time.

It'll be no different with Shields. Expect a fight which looks like the 1st round of Hendo vs Shields until GSP gets the TKO or the 25 minutes is up.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Ape City said:


> Who are some elite, top 5, wrestlers or BJJ practitioners that shields has beat other than a sick Hendo fighting with a back injury and no gas tank?


fixed :thumb02:


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

RightCross said:


> actually, gsp isn't the best at any one discipline in mma... he stands with paul daley , he loses, he grapples with shields , he loses... he isn't even the biggest, or the strongest.. the hype is outta control


Actually if GSP stand with Daley then GSP would win imo. Also if it goes to the ground GSP will beat Shields still because when it does hit the ground, you can bet GSP will be on top.

Even if GSP isn't the best at one aspect, it doesn't matter. He is the best overall and he will not be beat.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

This thread is a joke. There is no reason to believe that shields would be able to dominate GSP on the ground. He very well might be able to win the fight on the ground because shields is a elite sub artist, but then again he might not be able to. GSP is an elite MMA fighter. 

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if GSP used his newly found boxing and jab to keep shields at a distance pepper him with shots all night like he did in his domination of Koscheck.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

So... I've been reading through all these pages looking as the general impressions of the group and I'm f-ing amazed. 

Who has GSP EVER in his entire UFC career KOed. And since becoming the champion again his only TKO wins are against Serra (turtle position is stupid in general), and Penn (which was a corner stoppage, because Penn reacts poorly to being embarassed). 

Fact: GSP can be taken down. Fitch did it. Koscheck did it. And they didn't make it look too tough. If GSP didn't knee either one of them in the face when they shot, why would he able to do it to Shields? Or be willing to GIVE Shields a single on the off chance his knee could do what Hendo's fist couldn't? 

GSP will most likely win this fight. With his stand up. But it seems like the majority of people are selling Shields short. Before coming to the UFC he was top 5 most decorated fighters outside the organization. He's beaten Condit, Delay, Okami, Miller, and anyone and everyone else who he could get in front of him for four years of nonstop winning and every fighter I listed was part of that streak. 

This will, no question in my mind, be the most competitive fight of GSP's career to date.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Ape City said:


> This keep getting mentioned but I don't really understand why it is being treated as fact.
> 
> What evidence do we have that Shields is even equal GSP in wrestling or grappling, let alone evidence that shields is better than GSP?
> 
> ...


I've always presumed people drew that logic from the ADCC tournaments. Leos Santos is a multiple ADCC champ who submitted GSP in ADCC in slightly over a minute, then Shields submitted Leos in a little over two minutes. ADCC math says Shields is the superior submission wrestler, but MMA isn't ADCC. 

I say its a repeat of Kos/GSP II. Death by stiff-jab grind outs.


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## Spic_D (Jan 2, 2011)

Shields is not going to submit GSP.... he will just vaseline his way out :thumb02:


seriously.... I know that Shields is a high level grappler... one of the best, but before GSP-Fitch you tought GSP would win the grapplin battle?


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Fact: GSP can be taken down. Fitch did it. Koscheck did it. And they didn't make it look too tough. If GSP didn't knee either one of them in the face when they shot, why would he able to do it to Shields? Or be willing to GIVE Shields a single on the off chance his knee could do what Hendo's fist couldn't?


Fitch did NOT get a takedown on GSP, he managed to get a reversal off a rear naked choke attempt after GSP had knocked him on his ass. Koscheck got one, just one single takedown in each fight and he had to work hard for them. In the rematch it took him nearly a minute to get GSP down near the end of the first round. Koscheck is a lot more explosive and athletic than Shields could ever hope to be, and it still took him that long and that much work to get GSP down.


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## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

Ape City said:


> This keep getting mentioned but I don't really understand why it is being treated as fact.
> 
> What evidence do we have that Shields is even equal GSP in wrestling or grappling, let alone evidence that shields is better than GSP?
> 
> ...


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## Steroid Steve (Oct 1, 2010)

There are youtube videos of Shields tooling Fitch in grappling. It's not in a MMA setting, but it's proof enough to believe that Shields, *at the least*, has the ability to compete with GSP in that department. I believe he has enough ability to compete with him. It's just how is he going to go about a gameplan to get into range to execute takedowns.


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## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

RustyRenegade said:


> The only way it goes to the ground is if GSP takes it there. Doubt he does anything but uses his boxing in this fight but he'll be fine either way.





jake cant shoot takedowns? cause a scramble... land on top/ or standing guillotine? jake can't pull guard/sweep??


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

RightCross said:


> jake cant shoot takedowns? cause a scramble... land on top/ or standing guillotine? jake can't pull guard/sweep??


Jake..... is that you? Say hi to Nick and Nate for me.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

RightCross said:


> mike pyle... beast on the ground
> 
> yushin okami ... great grappler
> 
> carlos condit ... no description necessary


These guys are all great grapplers, but I still don't understand how wins over these guys (2 of them 4 years ago) proves Jake good enough to give GSP as much trouble on the ground as people are claiming.

Sure these guys are all good, but none of them make Fitch, Koscheck, or BJ look bad. 

Both Shields and GSP have been completely dominating everyone they face ont he ground and neither fighter has shows very much weakness in that department. That's why I don't understand the confidence in Shields' ground game vs GSP's; they both haven't shown us many flaws at all.


here is the fitch vs shields vid, shields locks him up early and doesn't let go, pretty impressive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKTgWUYsNB8


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

Food for thought. Do you really think that in the five rounds that Kos got taken down by GSP in their first fight, the five rounds GSP dictated where Fitch was going to get the crap beat out of him, and the five rounds where GSP picked Kos apart that neither Kos nor Fitch wasn't thinking that their fight would be going a hell of a lot better if they were in a dominant position on the ground?

Reality is that they stopped trying to take GSP down or couldn't justify the energy expenditure and instead lost decisively. Shields is amazing, but he's not the best. The best is GSP.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

RightCross said:


> mike pyle... beast on the ground


If you've seen that fight you know Pyle was not even trying. He wanted out of the crumbling EliteXC and basically threw that fight to be done with his contract.


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## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

ha ha mike pyle threw the fight lol ... seriously?


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## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

okami and dan hendo are better than anyone gsp beat, just something to think about


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

RightCross said:


> okami and dan hendo are better than anyone gsp beat, just something to think about


Okami is better than Jon Fitch? Did Jake Shields beat a healthy Hendo? Do any posts you type make sense?


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## rachel<3shogun (Jan 4, 2011)

Steroid Steve said:


> There are youtube videos of Shields tooling Fitch in grappling. It's not in a MMA setting, but it's proof enough to believe that Shields, *at the least*, has the ability to compete with GSP in that department. I believe he has enough ability to compete with him. It's just how is he going to go about a gameplan to get into range to execute takedowns.


uhh, fitch had just started grappling at that point.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Steroid Steve said:


> There are youtube videos of Shields tooling Fitch in grappling. It's not in a MMA setting, but it's proof enough to believe that Shields, *at the least*, has the ability to compete with GSP in that department. I believe he has enough ability to compete with him. It's just how is he going to go about a gameplan to get into range to execute takedowns.


That was years ago....Jon had just started grappling, Jake was already a black belt if I'm not mistaken.

Not to mention everyone is comparing Shields wins at 185. We see what crap he looked like cutting to 170, even if he shows up in three times better shape he'd be gassed by the third and GSP will take him apart. If Jake gasses again like he did against Kampmann he may end up calling it a fight "To the Death Georges" style.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Yeah Hendo was unhealthy, just like how Silva fought with a broken rib. :sarcastic12:


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## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

Yushin Okami would tie GSP into a pretzel... and treat him like a boy. He is way too big, too strong, and fights too smart. He just handled nate marquardt, gsp's teammate

Let me put this in perspective.... Jake Shields has wins over 3 current top Ten ...... MIDDLEWEIGHTS LOL







yushin okami number 2, dan hendo number 5 , robbie lawler number 6


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Because it has been proven time and time again that someone in a smaller weight is always worse than...oh wait.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

RightCross said:


> Yushin Okami would tie GSP into a pretzel... and treat him like a boy. He is way too big, too strong, and fights too smart. He just handled nate marquardt, gsp's teammate


wrong nate did way more damage then yushin did and should have won, and sonnen manhandled yushin too.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

deadmanshand said:


> Actually he dropped Shields a couple of times in the clinch. There was a particularly vicious knee in the 3rd round that dropped him hard. So he was hurt multiple times. I firmly believe that if Kampmann hadn't followed him to the ground when he was hurt he would have won. Easily at that.
> 
> And I am neith a hugger nor a hater. I don't really care about Kampmann or Shields.


You can believe what you want but he never came close to finishing Jake.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

slapshot said:


> You can believe what you want but he never came close to finishing Jake.


Believe what I want? Kampmann did hurt Shields. That's a fact. Watch the fight. At no point did Shields have Kampmann in any kind of danger. That is also a fact. So how did Jake easily win the fight?

The fact is he came into the fight and gassed by round two. He got casually out struck and his only success came on the ground where he pretty much laid on top of Kampmann. He never even threatened to end the fight. Unlike Kampmann. Under UFC current rules he did outpoint Martin but only because he kept following Shields to the ground. If he hadn't Martin would have the next title shot. Shields didn't win that fight. Kampmann lost it.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

deadmanshand said:


> Believe what I want? Kampmann did hurt Shields. That's a fact. Watch the fight. At no point did Shields have Kampmann in any kind of danger. That is also a fact. So how did Jake easily win the fight?
> 
> The fact is he came into the fight and gassed by round two. He got casually out struck and his only success came on the ground where he pretty much laid on top of Kampmann. He never even threatened to end the fight. Unlike Kampmann. Under UFC current rules he did outpoint Martin but only because he kept following Shields to the ground. If he hadn't Martin would have the next title shot. Shields didn't win that fight. Kampmann lost it.


I dont remember shields getting dropped in the fight so I cant agree, I know he caught a knee changing levels once but working just from my memory I never saw him get dropped.

Like I said, he never came close to finishing Jake and if there is one "fact" out of that fight thats it. The rest of your post is a opinion. Shields took that fight from him he didnt give shit away, nobody ever dose. A better strat might have helped might not have its just speculation whats not is that Shields won.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Go watch the fight again and tell me I'm speculating. Shields took the advantage that Kampmann very genrously gave him. That's it. You are also forgetting how Shields never even came close to threatening Kampmann while you keep repeating that Kampmann never came close to finishing Shields. Kampmann came away looking like the better fighter with horrible gameplans.


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## monkey024 (Apr 6, 2010)

yo dead its because he was anemic...the guy looked so drained from the cut that he had almost no gas tank and STILL won with a guy that weighed the same even for the fight. 

I enjoy watching both fight but I will be rooting for Shields. The guy is the underdog in every sense of the word even WITH all of his accolades. 

The thing is I cant see him being able to shoot or take down gsp unless he wants to take a hard hit and pray he doesnt go to sleep from it. 

Shields has NO strength behind anything he throws punches or kicks...its sad.

The only way shields can win would be for a take down and sub which we havent seen gsp on the ground in a long time so it would be interesting.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> Video or it didn't happen.


I will video myself eating my dick , if Shields pulls guard and sweeps him. 


only if that happens.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

***** de Amigo said:


> I will video myself eating my dick , if Shields pulls guard and sweeps him.
> 
> 
> only if that happens.


This I will demand and hold you to. Haha, but I think you're safe.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Edit: Double post by accident.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> This I will demand and hold you to. Hahha, but I think you're safe.


Im being generous the guy said sweep him and then TKO him hahahahahahaha

Shields could sweep him , but no way in hell does he pull guard. 


But i doubt Shields will do either.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

I don't see Shields winning a single round on points. This is going to be a hard fight for me to watch as I'm a big fan of both guys and I don't want to see Shields looking like a 'Kos' getting picked apart and desperately shooting like Maia vs Anderson.


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## Mike28 (Aug 11, 2010)

Shields was noticably very weak during the Kampmann fight. If he comes in strong after his weight cut it could be a good fight. I am really hoping to see someone get finished in this fight but I have a feeling it will be a decision victory for GSP.


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## R1WARRIOR (Sep 21, 2010)

Most ridiculous fight in UFC history, and Shields clearly lost to Kampmann anyway. DFW has to do it because it's in Shields contract.....but it's a real joke.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

Shields struggled to finish Daley on the ground, he almost got outworked by Kampmann, failed to submit Henderson... etc.

Shields is a beast but not only will he not be able to get GSP down, he couldn't submit even if he did. 

GSP will beat the snot out of him, and it's going to be great to watch :thumb02:


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Mike28 said:


> Shields was noticably very weak during the Kampmann fight. If he comes in strong after his weight cut it could be a good fight. I am really hoping to see someone get finished in this fight but I have a feeling it will be a *decision victory for GSP*.


Really out on a limb with that...


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## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

Hiro said:


> Shields struggled to finish Daley on the ground, he almost got outworked by Kampmann, failed to submit Henderson... etc.
> 
> Shields is a beast but not only will he not be able to get GSP down, he couldn't submit even if he did.
> 
> GSP will beat the snot out of him, and it's going to be great to watch :thumb02:





Shields FINISHED Daley in the second, what struggle? Do you think it is a video game? 

Almost got out-worked by Kampmann? What does that even mean?

..... as for not FINISHING Hendo, was he supposed to finish him? Short memory pal, i remember he was supposed to be going to the electric chair in the Hendo fight... much like this fight with GSP


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Mike28 said:


> I am really hoping to see someone get finished in this fight but I have a feeling it will be a decision victory for GSP.


Probably, Im not sure why people will post that ether fighter has the fight in the bag, its short sighted. I think its going to be a close fight and Shields wont rag doll GSP but he can control him if he gets top position. 

What gives me pause is that GSP probably CANT finish Shields standing, He'll just box and out point him but that gives shield five rounds to make something happen and thats a lot of time for such a high level ground fighter. IMO both fighters are going to be able to get up if they get taken down so I think who wins this fight will win it in the fourth and fifth rounds after a bit of fatigue sets in.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

slapshot said:


> Probably, Im not sure why people will post that ether fighter has the fight in the bag, its short sighted. I think its going to be a close fight and Shields wont rag doll GSP but he can control him if he gets top position.
> 
> What gives me pause is that GSP probably CANT finish Shields standing, *He'll just box and out point him but that gives shield five rounds to make something happen and thats a lot of time for such a high level ground fighter.* IMO both fighters are going to be able to get up if they get taken down so I think who wins this fight will win it in the fourth and fifth rounds after a bit of fatigue sets in.


Damien Maia vs Anderson Silva anyone?


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## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

Life B Ez said:


> Damien Maia vs Anderson Silva anyone?








So Shields will out-strike GSP in rounds 4 and 5?


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

No he will not out strike him


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

RightCross said:


> So Shields will out-strike GSP in rounds 4 and 5?


No I meant that people said almost the exact same thing before Anderson Silva Maia and we seen how that turned out. If you're just overall better or a lot better than your opponent it won't matter if they are slightly better than you at one aspect of the game.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

That's true except for wrestling.

A slightly better wrestler outmatched in other disciplines has fairly good chance of winning a fight.

As for this fight, if Shields gets a take down there's a high possibility that he will win the round. His control on the ground is excellent. The question is whether he can get a takedown. My reasoning is, if Josh Koscheck can get a takedown, I think Shields with a more varied wrestling approach, can get definitely get it to the ground.

I doubt we see a finish either way.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Life B Ez said:


> Damien Maia vs Anderson Silva anyone?


Not sure that fits the bill, A Silva has better striking because of his power wile GSP uses his footwork and technique to out kick-box fighters standing, he's not as dangerous as A.S. 

Id also say even though Maia's striking looked good that fight Shields probably has a leg up on him when it comes to striking, its debatable though. 

If it goes Jakes way this fight will be in the clinch most of the time its standing IMO and I hear ppl saying it but I just cant see any reason GSP would want to take Shields down and keep the fight there, its just a added risk he shouldn't be willing to take "IF" the stand up is going his way.



Life B Ez said:


> No I meant that people said almost the exact same thing before Anderson Silva Maia and we seen how that turned out. If you're just overall better or a lot better than your opponent it won't matter if they are slightly better than you at one aspect of the game.


Nether fighter has a huge disadvantage and for GSP's striking advantages he lacks the one aspect of striking thats a real asset with a fighter like Shields and thats one punch power, Shields is going to attempt to walk through GSP's punches and give him no respect (space) and clinch then start working for a TD.

Im 80% sure GSP can take this fight but Shields is too good of a fighter to be 100% without being irrational.


----------



## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

RightCross said:


> HellRazor said:
> 
> 
> > Easy. Shields has been fighting substandard competition. Facing a UFC guy who has zero chance of beating GSP, he struggled.
> ...


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

That sounds suspiciously like logic, Sousa, and we can't have that here.


----------



## ArcherCC (Dec 12, 2010)

Now now Sousa, don't be using logic here, for many have tried and all have failed, give up and join the darkside.


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Both fighter have the pedigree to be in this fight, whose is more valid is really irrelevant because anyone who is rational realizes obviously GSP deserves to be there and so dose Shields even though he'll probably lose. 

He's a solid fourth maybe third in the UFC his record is more than solid enough to have earned a title shot regardless of where he's ranked.


----------



## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

Sousa said:


> RightCross said:
> 
> 
> > lol this is a hilarious post including your first.
> ...


----------



## thrshr01 (Dec 30, 2007)

RightCross said:


> show me an opponent that GSP fought that can beat Yushin Okami, ill be waiting


Jon Fitch! And I really, truly believe that.


----------



## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

RightCross said:


> You are a true Zuffa Shill. Dan Henderson left the UFC on a 4 fight win streak and because he was disgruntled about not receiving the title shot to anderson silva... at that point, Dan Henderson fought the best fight against anderson silva and took the first round easily. He was a marquee signing for Strikeforce.


I love Dan, but he left for more reasons than just not getting the title shot after he beat Bisping (Which was the promise before Dan won). But Dan wanted A LOT of money and let's be honest he's not a huge draw to the casual fan. That was kind of a mutual split, Dan wanted more than the UFC would give him and Dan wasn't getting a shot because he isn't a huge draw.


----------



## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> wrong nate did way more damage then yushin did and should have won, and sonnen manhandled yushin too.


lol lol you're a joke , first i predict the outcome of Nate vs Stun gun and you cry and tell me Diaz won and now you claim Nate should have beat Yushin ? you need to go away and re evaluate if this the sport you should be following because you know nothing............

Sonnen is one of the best wrestlers in the sport and would be shields and GSP so that point is invalid.


----------



## sprawlbrawl (Apr 28, 2008)

RightCross said:


> a Cesar Gracie Black belt vs a guy who learned how to properly do an armbar in the locker-room of the Dan Hardy fight. Jake Shields is a 3X all-american wrestler, who will pull guard , sweep gsp , and tko or positionally dominate gsp.


you have got to be kidding me your insane dude:confused03:


----------



## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

RightCross said:


> doesn't have to take him down.... will pull guard, *can sub him standing with a guillotine like he did robbie lawler...*


Did you just compare GSP and Robbie Lawler?


----------



## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

RightCross said:


> Do you know who Yushin Okami is? Do you know Mike Pyle is called quicksand for a reason...
> 
> You are a true Zuffa Shill. Dan Henderson left the UFC on a 4 fight win streak and because he was disgruntled about not receiving the title shot to anderson silva... at that point, Dan Henderson fought the best fight against anderson silva and took the first round easily. He was a marquee signing for Strikeforce.
> 
> ...


Mike Pyle is not THAT good of a fighter, he's solid but he's not a top notch guy at all.

Like Life B EZ said there were plenty of different reasons why he left but that still doesn't mean he isn't old.He waited 9 months after Bisping to fight Shields and 8 to fight Babalu.He did do great against Anderson who is denying that?He still ended up losing and was tooled around in that second round standing up and got his back taken. Also what is a Zuffa Shill?And why am I one? if you're calling me bias, thats the most laughable thing on earth bceause I trash people that talk smack about other promotions,even noes who bash UFC. I'm an MMA fan, I enjoy all promotions and have no bias towards anyone

GSP has fought suprior grapplers than Yushin Okami. If he was meant to be killed in grappling how come he wasn't against BJ Penn,Sean Sherk,Frank Trigg,Mayhem Miller, and even Jon Fitch. he out grappled ALL OF THEM.You're overatting Okami because he's a bigger weight class and to be honest I think Fitch could out grapple him its not like he has incredible TDD and his striking is poor.

Yah so?Is Overeem a BJJ ace bceause he has more subs than Ko's?

Btw yea Shields has subs and has his black belt but out of that camp ... how many of them are truely top notch ground guys?Just because the last name is Gracie shouldn't mean they're automatically better than everyone on the ground.



Life B Ez said:


> RightCross said:
> 
> 
> > I love Dan, but he left for more reasons than just not getting the title shot after he beat Bisping (Which was the promise before Dan won). But Dan wanted A LOT of money and let's be honest he's not a huge draw to the casual fan. That was kind of a mutual split, Dan wanted more than the UFC would give him and Dan wasn't getting a shot because he isn't a huge draw.
> ...


----------



## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Sousa said:


> What happened with the quoting on this?lol I didn't say that


Not sure, because I said that....I think somewhere along the line, two names got quoted and no one fixed it so it credited the quote to someone else and the real person who said it was above them. Just fixed two of my posts with that problem.


----------



## rachel<3shogun (Jan 4, 2011)

Life B Ez said:


> It's only foolish if you don't know you'll win.





Roflcopter said:


> Which is always. Hence, it's called "gambling".
> 
> :sarcastic12:


well maybe you should tell that to rain-man because he practically bankrupt a casino & he was a retard.


----------



## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

jon fish was a below average ncaa wrestler who broke starting line-up his senior year. he grappled and has no accolades to speak of. Yushin Okami would murder him and has way more credentials.


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

RightCross said:


> jon fish was a below average ncaa wrestler who broke starting line-up his senior year. he grappled and has no accolades to speak of. Yushin Okami would murder him and has way more credentials.


who, this guy?

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/John-Fish-32207


----------



## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

Hiro said:


> Shields struggled to finish Daley on the ground, he almost got outworked by Kampmann, failed to submit Henderson... etc.
> 
> Shields is a beast but not only will he not be able to get GSP down, he couldn't submit even if he did.
> 
> GSP will beat the snot out of him, and it's going to be great to watch :thumb02:


Not to mention GSP is training with Roger Gracie.

Roger is a submission MACHINE and hasn't been submitted since he was like a blue belt. With that knowledge of submission defence to hand onto GSP AND GSP trying to defend submissions from probably the best submission artist P4P on the planet, you can bet he will come well prepared to defend Shields submission game if he does manage to take GSP to the ground.


----------



## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)




----------



## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

This thread is still going? Seriously?


----------



## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

rachel<3shogun said:


> well maybe you should tell that to rain-man because he practically bankrupt a casino & he was a retard.


You mean he should tell that to the _fictional_ character Rain Man from the _movie_ with Dustin Hoffman and Tom Cruise¿


----------



## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

vandalian said:


>





looks like the average GSP/Brpck fan


----------



## Dan0 (Aug 22, 2008)

RightCross said:


> looks like the average GSP/Brpck fan


Since when are GSP fans considered in the same category as Brock fans?


----------



## rachel<3shogun (Jan 4, 2011)

Voiceless said:


> You mean he should tell that to the _fictional_ character Rain Man from the _movie_ with Dustin Hoffman and Tom Cruise¿


apparently you don't get it either...


----------



## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Fine Wine said:


> Not to mention GSP is training with Roger Gracie.


Wtf, seriously? 

What little chance I gave Shields just went down the toilet.


----------



## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Voiceless said:


> You mean he should tell that to the _fictional_ character Rain Man from the _movie_ with Dustin Hoffman and Tom Cruise¿


----------



## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

Sousa said:


> Mike Pyle is not THAT good of a fighter, he's solid but he's not a top notch guy at all.
> 
> Like Life B EZ said there were plenty of different reasons why he left but that still doesn't mean he isn't old.He waited 9 months after Bisping to fight Shields and 8 to fight Babalu.He did do great against Anderson who is denying that?He still ended up losing and was tooled around in that second round standing up and got his back taken. Also what is a Zuffa Shill?And why am I one? if you're calling me bias, thats the most laughable thing on earth bceause I trash people that talk smack about other promotions,even noes who bash UFC. I'm an MMA fan, I enjoy all promotions and have no bias towards anyone
> 
> ...


----------



## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

RightCross said:


> mike pyle isn't a good fighter.... ????????
> 
> 
> please look up who the last person was to sub Jon Fitch........ ill be waiting


I didn't say anything about mike pyle....


----------



## astrallite (Mar 14, 2010)

Put GSP in the Jake Shields gauntlet and guess what, he'd have a 15-fight win streak too. 

Jake Shields has a nice resume, but GSP would have beaten everybody on that list too. Jake's top wins are Okami and Henderson, who have way too many holes in their game and GSP would light them up.


----------



## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

astrallite said:


> Put GSP in the Jake Shields gauntlet and guess what, he'd have a 15-fight win streak too.
> 
> Jake Shields has a nice resume, but GSP would have beaten everybody on that list too. Jake's top wins are Okami and Henderson, who have way too many holes in their game and GSP would light them up.




it's funny, but matt serra and matt hughes beat gsp.... okami and hendo would murder those guys...... i would make the exact opposite argument, that gsp fights those 15 guys and comes out 12-3 or 13-2



rygu said:


> Wtf, seriously?
> 
> What little chance I gave Shields just went down the toilet.






because rogers ground game can easily be learned in 2 months thru absorbtion...... if jake trains with roger mayweather then jake would knock gsp out according 2u



Dan0 said:


> Since when are GSP fans considered in the same category as Brock fans?




let's see, both were ufc champs, both won't fight without a size/speed advantage, both cannot take a punch and both tapped out due to strikes. both rely on a power double leg takedown and both are very athletic.

both have fans that think they are unbeatable and will walk thru any opponent easily which is really annoying



vandalian said:


>




posting pictures of young boys on the internet is kinda creepy... i hope the fbi raids your place and seizes your hard drive



***** de Amigo said:


> lol lol you're a joke , first i predict the outcome of Nate vs Stun gun and you cry and tell me Diaz won and now you claim Nate should have beat Yushin ? you need to go away and re evaluate if this the sport you should be following because you know nothing............
> 
> Sonnen is one of the best wrestlers in the sport and would be shields and GSP so that point is invalid.






gsp fans are discrediting chael sonnen and yushin okami... those guys are great fighters... discrediting them to discredit shields is really counter-productive



thrshr01 said:


> Jon Fitch! And I really, truly believe that.





jon fish ran away from light heavy weight and middleweight for a reason. cutting weight sucks, but when u cut weight it is easier to compete. Fish droppped 2 divisions for a reason. yushin okami would stuff jon fish' takedowns.... fish is a clinch wrestler..... okami owns the clinch


----------



## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Six posts in a row... isn't talking to yourself neat?


----------



## TheReturn (Sep 26, 2010)

RightCross said:


> let's see, both were ufc champs, both won't fight without a size/speed advantage, both cannot take a punch and both tapped out due to strikes. both rely on a power double leg takedown and both are very athletic.
> 
> both have fans that think they are unbeatable and will walk thru any opponent easily which is really annoying


Your an idiot.


----------



## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

rygu said:


> Six posts in a row... isn't talking to yourself neat?





its funny how the INTERNET FORUMS work. people respond to u by quoting u. u then quote them back and address their comments. you wrote that im talking to myself, yet every post i made was responding to someone who originally responded to me [much like im now responding to your mindless quote... dont worry, im sure u will eventually figure out enough computer savvy to accomplish greatness . i know it's hard to use public library computers but u seem to manage


----------



## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

TheReturn said:


> Your an idiot.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> im sorry that the brock/gsp fan comparison hurt your feelings....and just because u perform fellatio doesnt make u a fellator, don't listen to those other children they are rude.


----------



## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

RightCross said:


> its funny how the INTERNET FORUMS work. people respond to u by quoting u. u then quote them back and address their comments. you wrote that im talking to myself, yet every post i made was responding to someone who originally responded to me [much like im now responding to your mindless quote... dont worry, im sure u will eventually figure out enough computer savvy to accomplish greatness . i know it's hard to use public library computers but u seem to manage


Your humor is weak at best.

Hey what a good idea... suggesting someone is bad at computers because they made a sarcastic quote about your epic 6-posts-in-row, when you're the fucktard that doesn't know how to click multi-quote.


----------



## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

rygu said:


> Six posts in a row... isn't talking to yourself neat?





TheReturn said:


> Your an idiot.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## TheReturn (Sep 26, 2010)

RightCross said:


> im sorry that the brock/gsp fan comparison hurt your feelings....and just because u perform fellatio doesnt make u a fellator, don't listen to those other children they are rude.


Comparing brock fans and gsp fans is dumb and if you waste your time doing it your probably dumb to, just sayin.


----------



## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

rygu said:


> Your humor is weak at best.
> 
> Hey what a good idea... suggesting someone is bad at computers because they made a sarcastic quote about your epic 6-posts-in-row, when you're the fucktard that doesn't know how to click multi-quote.




im sorry for criticizing your internet accumen. please accept my appology. we can be friends, but please, dont pm me and more pics of your exploits with small children. it's not ur fault, you are from kansas


----------



## TheReturn (Sep 26, 2010)

RightCross said:


> TheReturn said:
> 
> 
> > Your an idiot.[/QUOTE
> ...


----------



## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

TheReturn said:


> Comparing brock fans and gsp fans is dumb and if you waste your time doing it your probably dumb to, just sayin.





no fighter in mma is unbeatable. the gsp fans saying shields with his excellent defensive boxing and ground game has NO CHANCE are the same brock fans saying cain HAD NO CHANCE and brock just n eeds one takedown


----------



## TheReturn (Sep 26, 2010)

RightCross said:


> no fighter in mma is unbeatable. the gsp fans saying shields with his excellent defensive boxing and ground game has NO CHANCE are the same brock fans saying cain HAD NO CHANCE and brock just n eeds one takedown


I suppose, dont see many of those here anyways. 
Just make sure theyre not exargerating, maybe they just mean that he has a very small chance?


----------



## TheReturn (Sep 26, 2010)

RightCross said:


> no fighter in mma is unbeatable. the gsp fans saying shields with his excellent defensive boxing and ground game has NO CHANCE are the same brock fans saying cain HAD NO CHANCE and brock just n eeds one takedown


From your first post and most of the ones after it it sounds like you dont like gsp because of his fans. And thats just kind of ridiculous man, if you like mma as much as everyone else here does you should appreciate how good his technique and skill are and his work ethic. Anyways if your down lets work out a sig bet for the fight.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Gotta respect those who make jokes about pics of children. 

Like, seriously.


----------



## jongurley (Jun 28, 2008)

AlphaDawg said:


> Shields won't be able to take him down. GSP is just going to jab Shields with absolutely no intention to finish for yet another boring 25 minute decision.
> 
> Just thinking of this fight makes me sleepy.


I hope this torture will get over with in a hurry,, its going to take GSP vs. Silva to make GSP fight,, I hope Silva KO's GSP,,, GSP is not as good and relentless as Sonnen on the ground,, so I think Silva tools him.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

The answer is simple. It's all about GSP/Silva once GSP dispatches Jake......it really is that simple, Jake is a great wrestler but he won't win this fight.


----------



## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Watch your double posting Right cross...

6 in a row is ridiculous


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Watch your double posting Right cross...
> 
> 6 in a row is ridiculous


I think that Jake has a decent chance based off his wrestling and the persons who's post I quoted is the one that made me resect Jake's wrestling the way I have come to.......GSP is going to have his hands full....


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Jake Shields is a monster as he has proven times and times again in the past, that being said i still don't see him beating GSP. I just don't see Jake getting the chance to really showcase he's monster BJJ in there.


----------



## caulomike (Dec 25, 2010)

GSP will emerge as the winner if this matchup happens. GSP has the experience and skills to overcome the great credentials of Jake Shields.


----------



## HellRazor (Sep 24, 2006)

RightCross said:


> 1. Dan Henderson 185/ gsp won't fight 185
> 2. Robbie Lawler / 185
> 3. Yushin Okami / 185 contender in the ufc
> 4. Mach Sakurai in his prime
> ...


You ever fight across weight classes? I have. It matters. The fight's at 170. Okay, so they'll both walk in around 175-180. At 185, people come in close to 200.

Maybe Shields has power at 185. At 170, he sure didn't have it vs Kampmann.

But more to the point, his only shot is turning into a BJJ contest. GSP doesn't have to let him do that, and GSP is a conservative fighter. The fight may not go to the ground at all, and if it does, GSP will not leave an arm out, or expose his neck. How is Shields' _offensive_ BJJ game? GSP is the best at stuffing takedowns, he will shrug off attempts to pull guard, I see nothing in Jake Shields game that will allow him to control where the fight is fought.

GSP's wrestling vs Shields' BJJ, i actually favor GSP. If 'Octagon Control' wasn't part of the scoring, I'd give Shields more of a chance. But under these rules ....


----------



## Semtex (Feb 1, 2011)

If Shields can take GSP down atleast once every round then i can see him submitting GSP, however i dont think his gonna be able to do that, and i think GSP will want to strike with Shields and he might end up catching him and stopping the fight...and to say that GSP didnt know how to do an armbar is stupid because he submitted matt hughes with a nice far side armbar; i think he was hesitant on going full force and snapping it, he was waiting for the tapp


----------



## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

HellRazor said:


> You ever fight across weight classes? I have. It matters. The fight's at 170. Okay, so they'll both walk in around 175-180. At 185, people come in close to 200.
> 
> Maybe Shields has power at 185. At 170, he sure didn't have it vs Kampmann.
> 
> ...




i have fought across weight classes... and the higher weights are USUALLY the tougher opponents. 
so jake's fights at 185
are something that should be applauded, he went up their for the challenge. he didnt fight anyone, did he? he fought highly ranked/and still highly ranked Robbie lawler. 

not only did he fight him, he FINISHED HIM. GSP pay attention!

Then, he fought the guy who recently fought for the UFC 205 belt against Rampage and for the 185 belt against Anderson... yes, Dan Hendo.


Jake Shields is being slept on


----------



## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

RightCross said:


> a Cesar Gracie Black belt vs a guy who learned how to properly do an armbar in the locker-room of the Dan Hardy fight. Jake Shields is a 3X all-american wrestler, who will pull guard , sweep gsp , and tko or positionally dominate gsp.


GSP has thrown around alot of All American wrestlers.


----------



## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

mastodon2222 said:


> GSP has thrown around alot of All American wrestlers.





koscheck is a great wrestler, but he did not commit to wrestling. he shot a double 2 times in a five round fight. shooting power doubles on an athlete like gsp is recipe for failure. jake shields is a totally different style wrestler.

i have wrestled for many years and can analyze the difference. Jake Shields doesn't shoot power doubles, he is one of the few mma wrestlers that shoots single leg takedowns. this will give gsp fits. after jake shoots, he has the ability to chain wrestle, to re-shoot or cut the corner using technique to finish the takedown attempt. the initial single leg doesn't have to be successful, as their are many more ways to penetrate the shot deeper on the legs and finish the takedown compared to the koscheck-brock lesnar power double.

For this reason, jakes wrestling is deceptively effective, coupled along with the fact that he fully commits to the takedown. jake will not get stuffed once or twice and abandon his ground strategy to throw over-hand sloppy rights. Jake will continue to shoot and re-shoot until he gets the takedown. 

Shields his a HUGE welterweight, perhaps the strongest in the ufc, and has won fights at 185, a division that gsp admitted he is too small and weak for until he gets bigger and stronger than he currently is


----------



## suffersystem (Feb 4, 2007)

RightCross said:


> koscheck is a great wrestler, but he did not commit to wrestling. he shot a double 2 times in a five round fight. shooting power doubles on an athlete like gsp is recipe for failure. jake shields is a totally different style wrestler.
> 
> i have wrestled for many years and can analyze the difference. Jake Shields doesn't shoot power doubles, he is one of the few mma wrestlers that shoots single leg takedowns. this will give gsp fits. after jake shoots, he has the ability to chain wrestle, to re-shoot or cut the corner using technique to finish the takedown attempt. the initial single leg doesn't have to be successful, as their are many more ways to penetrate the shot deeper on the legs and finish the takedown compared to the koscheck-brock lesnar power double.
> 
> ...


You do realize that his weight cutting almost lost him his first UFC fight eh? 

Well, maybe a little exagerated, but when I saw that performance all I could think was "This is the guy that will dethrone GSP?". He looked slightly less than impressive. Props on him getting the win, but it looked like he really struggled, so saying GSP can do it no problems, against the best P4P fighter in the world is a little naive.


----------



## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

suffersystem said:


> You do realize that his weight cutting almost lost him his first UFC fight eh?
> 
> Well, maybe a little exagerated, but when I saw that performance all I could think was "This is the guy that will dethrone GSP?". He looked slightly less than impressive. Props on him getting the win, but it looked like he really struggled, so saying GSP can do it no problems, against the best P4P fighter in the world is a little naive.




if there is a p4p best fighter in this fight, then it has to be jake shields not gsp. he won titles at 170 and 185, beat okami and hendo in the higher weight class, whereas GSP has to be dragged into 185 pound division kicking and screaming.

Martin Kampmann fought at 185 and is a talented kickboxer with an awesome ground game.... not much different then gsp.


----------



## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

At least in this grappling match we will see which Gracie was the better BJJ teacher, Renzo Gracie vs Cesar Gracie. :thumb02:


----------



## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

RightCross said:


> koscheck is a great wrestler, but he did not commit to wrestling. he shot a double 2 times in a five round fight. shooting power doubles on an athlete like gsp is recipe for failure. jake shields is a totally different style wrestler.
> 
> i have wrestled for many years and can analyze the difference. Jake Shields doesn't shoot power doubles, he is one of the few mma wrestlers that shoots single leg takedowns. this will give gsp fits. after jake shoots, he has the ability to chain wrestle, to re-shoot or cut the corner using technique to finish the takedown attempt. the initial single leg doesn't have to be successful, as their are many more ways to penetrate the shot deeper on the legs and finish the takedown compared to the koscheck-brock lesnar power double.
> 
> ...


Great post...good insight. You know more about wrestling than I do, but what I've seen is that top level wrestlers abandon their game because GSP can see what they're trying to do a mile away, and they can't get the takedown and stop trying because it gets them in trouble. I agree that Shields has fought more big boys, and is a bigger fighter than GSP - that alone will make a difference. Add in what you say about his style and it could be a tough fight for GSP...People assume that GSP will beat Shields as a forgone conclusion and I'm not so sure. I think it has the potential to be a boring fight, tho.


----------



## caulomike (Dec 25, 2010)

GSP will pound him on ground. I have nothing against Jake Shields but he is not on the level in fighting against GSP.


----------



## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

You know I really don't know what to think about Shields at this point. At first I though it was the weight cut that hurt him...that and he was fighting Kampmann who is extremely good...but it's not like Shields hasn't cut to 170 in the past so what was it this time??

Was it really the weight cut or infamous "UFC jitters"? 
I dunno...Shields has competed for along time for a number of legitimate MMA organizations and has fought the toughest guys at 170/185 all over the world. He hasn't lost a fight since 2004. Would he STILL get UFC jitters? 

His last cut to 170 was back in July of 2008 against Daley. It's not like it was THAT long ago and to the best of my knowledge, Shields has never struggled to get to 170.

I also think Kampmann was a bad match up for Shields - a solid striker with a really good ground game. A lot of people talk about how great of a striker Kampann is but I think his ground game is where he really shines.

As of now I am picking GSP to win this fight.


----------



## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

RightCross said:


> Jake Shields doesn't shoot power doubles, he is one of the few mma wrestlers that shoots single leg takedowns. this will give gsp fits. after jake shoots, he has the ability to chain wrestle, to re-shoot or cut the corner using technique to finish the takedown attempt. the initial single leg doesn't have to be successful, as their are many more ways to penetrate the shot deeper on the legs and finish the takedown compared to the koscheck-brock lesnar power double.


Singles don't work on GSP either, and Shields doesn't have the speed and explosiveness to chain takedowns on GSP. Getting a single, turning the corner, and driving for penetration doesn't get you a takedown against GSP, ask Koscheck how well his attempt worked. Oh yeah, it didn't.


----------



## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

aerius said:


> Singles don't work on GSP either, and Shields doesn't have the speed and explosiveness to chain takedowns on GSP. Getting a single, turning the corner, and driving for penetration doesn't get you a takedown against GSP, ask Koscheck how well his attempt worked. Oh yeah, it didn't.


"



isnt that the fight where kos didn't train wrestling for years....

did you hear rogan's commentary? GSP WASN'T ABLE TO SHRUG OFF koscheck in round one THANX FOR PROVING MY POINT... also, kos is smaller than jake shields. Did Koscheck fight at 185 pounds in the last 5 years? cuz shields has..

Rogan says, in your cute little video, that "He keeps winging that right hand" Kos' developed sherkitis and fell in love with his sloppy overhand right. Jake shields is in love with finishing takedowns and getting mount.


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

RightCross said:


> a Cesar Gracie Black belt vs a guy who learned how to properly do an armbar in the locker-room of the Dan Hardy fight. Jake Shields is a 3X all-american wrestler, who will pull guard , sweep gsp , and tko or positionally dominate gsp.


Would you like to make a friendly wager...say $100. I'll go with Georges I think.


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## NikosCC (May 16, 2007)

Relavate said:


> Your a troll shut up. Gsp will murder this kid nuff said.


Hahahaha:thumbsup:


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## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

gsp is focused on anderson silva, and the spider is superior to gsp in every element of mma


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## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

NikosCC said:


> Hahahaha:thumbsup:






i made compelling arguments about jake shields' bjj pedigree and how it relates to GSP's bjj pedigree and knowledge.

I mentioned Shields' style of wrestling and how it is the opposite style of koscheck.

Also mentioned his fight iq or mentality when a shot/takedown fails, how his mental game is and the difference between koscheck/shields reactions to failed takedowns. Kos gives up his wrestling/shields is relentless in spite of failed takedowns.

I mentioned all the great fighters Jake has beat, at 170 and 185.

Also alluded to his striking being average, but his defense boxing is incredible, including his chin.



if that makes me a troll, by providing facts that back up an opinion that is different then yours, then i hope im the biggest troll on this forum. It sure beats the "me too" posts that seem to write.

What were your posts like when shields/dan henderson fought. the president of the UFC said they were setting jake up to lose. that is unheard of. jake proved all the internet warriors wrong. There is more to fighting then speed/athletecism. Technique trumpets all, fight iq, and relentlessness is so under-rated on here. 

David Terrell had all the physical gifts, prime belfort, you can't judgge the heart of jake shields and his will to win. He wouldn't tap with one second left to a matt hughes armbar in the championship fight. he never tapped to strikes to a lightweight. Jake moved up weight flawlessly and defeated 2 ranked middleweights. How is he a pushover you guys are making him out to be. 

Have you ever heard of zach thomas of the miami dolphins. wasn't big, wasn't fast, just had extreme heart.


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

Ouch it took ya a month to double post?


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## Shady1 (Jan 27, 2011)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> Explain the Kampmann fight then


I would say the answer is that he has not fought at Welterweight for a while and had to cut the weight


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## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

G_Land said:


> Ouch it took ya a month to double post?





there's no double post so stop being an idiot


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

hum...i think rightcross made exellent points and i agree 100%, jake is a whole different ball game from fitch and kos, he has taken every opponent down, and even though he fails he keeps working until he gets it, thats why he has so much success at getting a fight to the ground, i think he has a great chance in this fight even though he will be a HUGE underdog, its an underdog that his all the skills to pull an upset so it would be pretty smart to lay some money on him:thumb02:

shields is top 5 P4P, in fact i would probably put him right under aldo, its simply ridiculous the lack of respect he gets on this forum


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

RightCross said:


> gsp is focused on anderson silva, and the spider is superior to gsp in every element of mma





RightCross said:


> i made compelling arguments about jake shields' bjj pedigree and how it relates to GSP's bjj pedigree and knowledge.
> 
> I mentioned Shields' style of wrestling and how it is the opposite style of koscheck.
> 
> ...





RightCross said:


> there's no double post so stop being an idiot


Orly? So I am an idiot even though you clearly double posted???? You do know what a double post is right?


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

RightCross said:


> there's no double post so stop being an idiot


Actually there is CLEARLY a double post. You may want to choose how you decide to react to people a little better in the future.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

My money is on Shields. GSP doesn't possess that one punch KO power to fend of the relentless TD attempts from Jake. The majority of this fight will take place on the ground and GSP will lose.

Shields will be new WW champ.


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## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

Toxic said:


> Actually there is CLEARLY a double post. You may want to choose how you decide to react to people a little better in the future.



not a double post.... the reas the post dates. the first post was weeks before , and now i want to bump the thread because the fight is getting closer....

oh well, G-LAND for mod, love his bacikseat modding...


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Easy gals. 

GSP will dominate Jake Shields. Sorry, but this is going to happen. Shields is a tremendous overarchiever IMO but he won't take this one by any means. GSP is too well rounded (most well rounded in all MMA in my opinion) and he will dictate where the fight takes place. 

There's this guy called Jon Fitch who's supposed to take you down and dominate you there, we all know what GSP did to that guy. Shields ain't going to take GSP down and that might be his only chance to win this one.

Shields has surprised us before though.


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

RightCross said:


> not a double post.... the reas the post dates. the first post was weeks before , and now i want to bump the thread because the fight is getting closer....
> 
> oh well, G-LAND for mod, love his bacikseat modding...


Lol nice outlook. Mods can't be everywhere. And just because I am not a Mod does not make me wrong. Stop getting butt hurt and learn the rules.

But on to the subject at hand.....GSP will tool this fool where ever it takes place. Period


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

Rauno said:


> Easy gals.
> 
> GSP will dominate Jake Shields. Sorry, but this is going to happen. Shields is a tremendous overarchiever IMO but he won't take this one by any means. GSP is too well rounded (most well rounded in all MMA in my opinion) and he will dictate where the fight takes place.
> 
> ...


true, but shields wrestling is very different from fitches wrestling, not only that but shields is a much more proven fighter than fitch, with a lot more skills and a better chin

ppl compare kos and fitch to shields in a weird way, saying if fitch and kos couldnt do it, shields cant, why is that? since when is kos the one who set the bar to beat GSP? kos is a tough WW but i dont think he really is in fitch and shields level

fitch is an elite WW but he hasnt face the competition that shields has aside from a drained alves and GSP, shields is ahead of both of them in terms of rankings and has beaten tougher guys to get this title shot, and has BJJ to threaten GSP, GSPs bjj is VERY overrated just because bj (a bloated LW who never subs from his back) couldnt sub him


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## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

ACTAFOOL said:


> hum...i think rightcross made exellent points and i agree 100%, jake is a whole different ball game from fitch and kos, he has taken every opponent down, and even though he fails he keeps working until he gets it, thats why he has so much success at getting a fight to the ground, i think he has a great chance in this fight even though he will be a HUGE underdog, its an underdog that his all the skills to pull an upset so it would be pretty smart to lay some money on him:thumb02:
> 
> shields is top 5 P4P, in fact i would probably put him right under aldo, its simply ridiculous the lack of respect he gets on this forum





ACTAFOOL said:


> true, but shields wrestling is very different from fitches wrestling, not only that but shields is a much more proven fighter than fitch, with a lot more skills and a better chin
> 
> ppl compare kos and fitch to shields in a weird way, saying if fitch and kos couldnt do it, shields cant, why is that? since when is kos the one who set the bar to beat GSP? kos is a tough WW but i dont think he really is in fitch and shields level
> 
> fitch is an elite WW but he hasnt face the competition that shields has aside from a drained alves and GSP, shields is ahead of both of them in terms of rankings and has beaten tougher guys to get this title shot, and has BJJ to threaten GSP, GSPs bjj is VERY overrated just because bj (a bloated LW who never subs from his back) couldnt sub him






great point, they lump all wrestling styles into the same category because they do not know any better. fitch is a clinch wreastler, kos is a power double guy, shields is a relentless single leg-cause a scramble-drag you down guy.

clinch wrestler like fitch requires strength, wasn't gonna work... kos style actually did work the second fight, but he fell in love with the stand and bang. Jake's style is the style of wrestling to give him success against gsp.

Jake is training with chael sonnen recently for a reason


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

ACTAFOOL said:


> true, but shields wrestling is very different from fitches wrestling, not only that but shields is a much more proven fighter than fitch, with a lot more skills and a better chin
> 
> ppl compare kos and fitch to shields in a weird way, saying if fitch and kos couldnt do it, shields cant, why is that? since when is kos the one who set the bar to beat GSP? kos is a tough WW but i dont think he really is in fitch and shields level
> 
> fitch is an elite WW but he hasnt face the competition that shields has aside from a drained alves and GSP, shields is ahead of both of them in terms of rankings and has beaten tougher guys to get this title shot, and has BJJ to threaten GSP, GSPs bjj is VERY overrated just because bj (a bloated LW who never subs from his back) couldnt sub him


Saying Shields chin is better than Fitchs is a bit of a stretch. I think GSP can hurt him standing.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

GSP will MURDER Jake Shields.

Believe it.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

G_Land said:


> Saying Shields chin is better than Fitchs is a bit of a stretch. I think GSP can hurt him standing.


really? you think fitch would have survived hendos right hand? GSP doesnt hit with 1/10th of the power that hendo does, im sure jake will do just fine eating shots until he gets that TD


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## RightCross (Jan 5, 2011)

G_Land said:


> Saying Shields chin is better than Fitchs is a bit of a stretch. I think GSP can hurt him standing.





WOW, Wrong again.... jon fitch was KTF'd out be... ahem...Wilson Gouveia.... He then dropped not one, but TWQ weightclasses

Shields took Dan hendo's famous right hand, came back, dominated him like no fighter from middleweight to heavyweight in mma... Shields never been ko'd

Shields chin > fitch's easily

by the way, Mike Pierce almost KO'd fitdh, had him on queer street in the 3rd


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

GSP will toy with Shields on the feet.
Shields ain't going to the ground unless he's being knocked down by GSP.

1st part of the fight could be a repeat of GSP vs Koscheck.
2nd part of the fight could be a repeat of GSP vs Fitch.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

I will be cheering and chanting for Jake Shields out loud.

He has the best chance out of all the WW's to beat GSP and people are not giving him his dues.

15 fight winning streak against some real solid competition. People would rather just judge him soley on the kampmann fight, which was not in any way a true reflection of his skills.

Come on Jake, make GSP tap out one more time.


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

ACTAFOOL said:


> really? you think fitch would have survived hendos right hand? GSP doesnt hit with 1/10th of the power that hendo does, im sure jake will do just fine eating shots until he gets that TD


We will never know now will we? Yes I agree he survived a couple right hands from Hendo........But do you seriously believe Hendo's stand up is better than GSP's? Hendo has a nuke hidden under his right glove yes but thats it. And I am 100 percent sure Shields will get a take down just like Kos...but Shields will not keep him down.



RightCross said:


> WOW, Wrong again.... jon fitch was KTF'd out be... ahem...Wilson Gouveia.... He then dropped not one, but TWQ weightclasses
> 
> Shields took Dan hendo's famous right hand, came back, dominated him like no fighter from middleweight to heavyweight in mma... Shields never been ko'd
> 
> ...


Hendo had shields hurt bad ...not just a little but bad....And he never landed flush.....Do you think an old Hendo is better than a prime GSP? You are crazy if you do. Yes Fitch got KOd.....almost 9 years ago......Good point.....And almost counts for nothing


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

G_Land said:


> We will never know now will we? Yes I agree he survived a couple right hands from Hendo........But do you seriously believe Hendo's stand up is better than GSP's? Hendo has a nuke hidden under his right glove yes but thats it. And I am 100 percent sure Shields will get a take down just like Kos...but Shields will not keep him down.
> 
> 
> 
> Hendo had shields hurt bad ...not just a little but bad....And he never landed flush.....Do you think an old Hendo is better than a prime GSP? You are crazy if you do. Yes Fitch got KOd.....almost 9 years ago......Good point.....And almost counts for nothing


thats not the point, obviously GSP has better stand up, but he doesnt have near as much power, are you one of the ppl who think he will actually finish shields?

shields ate that right hand flush i dont know what you were watching, the first one wasnt flush, but the 2nd one was, and shields pretty much did a faceplant but recovered and survived for another 4 rounds

he also ate a nasty knee from kampmann but recovered also, i bet my house that GSP cant finish him in the stand up, he might rock shields a couple of times, and he will f*** his face up no doubt, but he wont stop him

and on another note, even if he does lose, i bet he will become the new ''fitch'' of the WW division, i think he could beat fitch and kos no doubt

but yeah...time will tell...


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

I actually think Shields beat 'the best Hendo' I think Henderson is still at the top of his game right now.


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## the ultimate (Mar 5, 2007)

pipe said:


> I actually think Shields beat 'the best Hendo' I think Henderson is still at the top of his game right now.


I think Hendo was starting to struggle with the weight cut but it's still a great win.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

ACTAFOOL said:


> thats not the point, obviously GSP has better stand up, but he doesnt have near as much power, *are you one of the ppl who think he will actually finish shields?*
> 
> shields ate that right hand flush i dont know what you were watching, the first one wasnt flush, but the 2nd one was, and shields pretty much did a faceplant but recovered and survived for another 4 rounds
> 
> ...


I really don't see how he could not finish him if things play out nicely for him, wich means that Jake is forced to stand up with him.

GSP needs a stoppage really badly these days and he won't ever face another opponent who has less stand up skills than Jake Shields. 

After the second round I predict that GSP is going to overpower Jake in the stamina aspect and get the easy TKO victory after dropping Jake. 

GSP can only let his hands go after the second round! There is really nothing wich should prevent him from doing so.



pipe said:


> I actually think Shields beat 'the best Hendo' I think Henderson is still at the top of his game right now.


Hendo was clearly injured in this fight! Did you watch the Feijao fight?



just for the record I really hope Jake can somehow.. however it might be pull of the victory  :thumbsup:


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

ACTAFOOL said:


> thats not the point, obviously GSP has better stand up, but he doesnt have near as much power, are you one of the ppl who think he will actually finish shields?
> 
> shields ate that right hand flush i dont know what you were watching, the first one wasnt flush, but the 2nd one was, and shields pretty much did a faceplant but recovered and survived for another 4 rounds
> 
> ...


No I'm not any person on here I am me lol. I see it going multiple ways. But you do relize you dont have to be completly knocked out to be finished Im sure. All it takes is getting rocked and GSP can finish shields.......And the other way around but I see it going GSPs way more times than not


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

I want Shields to win. I think he's got an amazing resume right now and it'd really shake things up.



Plus Koscheck took down and controlled GSP for like forty five seconds of the first round in the last fight. Maybe Shields could do the same except for over and over.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

pipe said:


> I actually think Shields beat 'the best Hendo' I think Henderson is still at the top of his game right now.


Nah hendo had back problems going into that fight. His cardio wasn't there, he was slow and stiff. I have no doubt if the hendo that fought Rafael fagurgjtdhtfg cant remember how to spell his name and I'm on the iPhone x.X guy had fought shields he would have stopped shields instead of flash koing him a couple times and shields surviving.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> I want Shields to win. I think he's got an amazing resume right now and it'd really shake things up.
> 
> 
> 
> Plus Koscheck took down and controlled GSP for like forty five seconds of the first round in the last fight. Maybe Shields could do the same except for over and over.


I'm rooting for Shields for the sole purpose of shaking things up, but I whole-heartedly expect a GSP domintion.


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

VolcomX311 said:


> I'm rooting for Shields for the sole purpose of shaking things up, but I whole-heartedly expect a GSP domintion.


So does the betting public. Last I saw, GSP was a 5-1 favorite: insanity in my book. GSP throws around the little guys: Hughes, Penn, Serra etc, but Shields, as a bigger fighter, has a much better chance than 1 in 5 to win a boring, ground control win, imo. I'll take Shields at 5-1.


----------



## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

xeberus said:


> Nah hendo had back problems going into that fight. His cardio wasn't there, he was slow and stiff. I have no doubt if the hendo that fought Rafael fagurgjtdhtfg cant remember how to spell his name and I'm on the iPhone x.X guy had fought shields he would have stopped shields instead of flash koing him a couple times and shields surviving.



I think you're making that up. The back problem stories started on MMAF I'm pretty sure. It was the same Hendo who smashed Bisping, and beat Wand and Franklin.


And Shields wasn't flash KO'd a couple of times, he got hit hard in the first and nearly got Hendo in a leglock when he tried to do the same finishing move that worked on Bisping.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

ACTAFOOL said:


> thats not the point, obviously GSP has better stand up, but he doesnt have near as much power, are you one of the ppl who think he will actually finish shields?


Do you think Shields can hold his own against GSP on the feet?!
I believe GSP will use the same strategy he used against Koscheck. Simple as that. Shields has worse striking than Kos and nowhere near Kos' power. GSP will pick him apart.
If Shields beomes frustrated and comes forward, i see GSP taking him down.
And Shields ain't subbing GSP from his back. I don't see that happening.





ACTAFOOL said:


> he also ate a nasty knee from kampmann but recovered also, i bet my house that GSP cant finish him in the stand up, *he might rock shields a couple of times, and he will f*** his face up no doubt, but he wont stop him*


Kampmann was a retard in that fight. Just like against Daley.
He was picking Shields apart on the feet, but instead of keeping the fight standing he opted to grapple. Stupid strategy.

He will definitely f**k his face and score big points. Not sure if he can finish him, but if Shields doesn't come in at 110% and shows some glimpses of his *Kampmann performance* he will get finished.



ACTAFOOL said:


> and on another note, even if he does lose, i bet he will become the new ''fitch'' of the WW division, i think he could beat fitch and kos no doubt
> 
> but yeah...time will tell...


If he loses, i want him vs Rocha.

And yes...time will tell.



khoveraki said:


> I want Shields to win. I think he's got an amazing resume right now and it'd really shake things up.
> 
> *Plus Koscheck took down and controlled GSP for like forty five seconds of the first round in the last fight.* Maybe Shields could do the same except for over and over.


I don't think Shields will get to close to GSP. Or at least without constantly being punched in the face.
GSP is gonna "jab jab jab + hook" his way to a victory.

_Personal opinion._


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Shields won't toy with GSP on the ground, but GSP sure in the hell won't finish Shields.

Shields is the toughest, hardest to finish guy GSP has faced. GSP couldn't finish Hardy, Josh, or Alves, and Shields is WAY tougher than all 3 of those guys, hell, probably combined.

Skill wise, GSP probably wins, but finish? Not a chance in hell.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

M.C said:


> Shields won't toy with GSP on the ground, but GSP sure in the hell won't finish Shields.
> 
> Shields is the toughest, hardest to finish guy GSP has faced. GSP couldn't finish Hardy, Josh, or Alves, and Shields is WAY tougher than all 3 of those guys, hell, probably combined.
> 
> Skill wise, GSP probably wins, but finish? Not a chance in hell.


GSP did everything he needed to in order to finish Kos, Kos had heart and begged the doctor not to stop a fight that rightfully should have for Josh's own well being. Don't kid yourself Kos's face was messed up and he was risking permanent injury to that eye.


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

M.C said:


> Shields won't toy with GSP on the ground, but GSP sure in the hell won't finish Shields.
> 
> Shields is the toughest, hardest to finish guy GSP has faced. GSP couldn't finish Hardy, Josh, or Alves, and Shields is WAY tougher than all 3 of those guys, hell, probably combined.
> 
> Skill wise, GSP probably wins, but finish? Not a chance in hell.


Sometimes, being finished it's better than to take a 5 rounds beating.

Ask Koscheck. The guy can't even run and his entire face is messed up, all wires and sh*t like that...


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Toxic said:


> GSP did everything he needed to in order to finish Kos, Kos had heart and begged the doctor not to stop a fight that rightfully should have for Josh's own well being. Don't kid yourself Kos's face was messed up and he was risking permanent injury to that eye.


I never said GSP didn't hurt Kos, I said GSP didn't finish Kos, he didn't come close to finishing Kos. His eye was busted up, that's about it.

GSP won't finish Shields either.



limba said:


> Sometimes, being finished it's better than to take a 5 rounds beating.
> 
> Ask Koscheck. The guy can't even run and his entire face is messed up, all wires and sh*t like that...


Whether it's good to be finished or not is irrelevant, GSP will still not finish Shields.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

limba said:


> Sometimes, being finished it's better than to take a 5 rounds beating.
> 
> Ask Koscheck. The guy can't even run and his entire face is messed up, all wires and sh*t like that...


Thats true Limba. Koscheck should have given up in my mind.. he was risking his entire health and fighting career that night, if you really look at it.


----------



## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

GSP via 25 minutes of jabbing and stalling.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Thats true Limba. Koscheck should have given up in my mind.. he was risking his entire health and fighting career that night, if you really look at it.


I think Kos would have opted out of that fight by the end of the 3rd rd. Or at least he should have.



AlphaDawg said:


> GSP via 25 minutes of jabbing and stalling.


Stalling results:

- Koscheck can't even run!!!
- His teeth are NUMB!
- The nerves in his right side are f*cked up!
- No training for 5 months at least! (from the end of february that is...)


Stalling is fun! :thumbsup:


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

limba said:


> Stalling results:
> 
> - Koscheck can't even run!!!
> - His teeth are NUMB!
> ...


horrible!


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

limba said:


> Stalling results:
> 
> - Koscheck can't even run!!!
> - His teeth are NUMB!
> ...


What's your point? Never said it didn't work.


----------



## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

I disagree Limba. Nobody has ever been able to effectively use their stand-up against Shields. Not Condit, not Daley, not Hendo... GSP is a phenomenal striker (I've debated before that he's the best at 170lbs) but I doubt GSP will be jabbing Shields away the whole fight.



Basically what ever GSP does to his last opponent is ALWAYS what people think he will do to his next. If he wrestles them for 25 minutes, he's going to wrestle the next opponent. If he jabs them, he's going to jab the next guy, blah blah blah,


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

AlphaDawg said:


> What's your point? Never said it didn't work.


My point is: sometimes it's better not to "stall".

And i don't think it will be like that honestly.

I think GSP will keep it standing in the beginning or at lest till he hurts Shields more and more. And i still think he has a very good chance of finishing him.
And i think GSP will go for the finish.

Depens when he has Shields hurt the most.



khoveraki said:


> I disagree Limba. Nobody has ever been able to effectively use their stand-up against Shields. Not Condit, not Daley, not Hendo... GSP is a phenomenal striker (I've debated before that he's the best at 170lbs) but I doubt GSP will be jabbing Shields away the whole fight.
> 
> Basically what ever GSP does to his last opponent is ALWAYS what people think he will do to his next. If he wrestles them for 25 minutes, he's going to wrestle the next opponent. If he jabs them, he's going to jab the next guy, blah blah blah,


Kampmann could have easily finished Shields, if only he wouldn't have had a sudden loss of intelligence and decided to grapple. 
EASILY!

And it wasn't about Shields having a bad weight cut.


----------



## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

khoveraki said:


> Nobody has ever been able to effectively use their stand-up against Shields. Not Condit, not Daley, not Hendo... GSP is a phenomenal striker (I've debated before that he's the best at 170lbs) but I doubt GSP will be jabbing Shields away the whole fight.


True enough, however those strikers were either one trick ponies or their standup game went to hell because they were afraid of getting taken down by Shields. GSP is a top level striker who can do it all, but more importantly he has the wrestling skills to keep the fight standing and he knows it. He's not going to hold back because he's afraid of being taken down, he knows Shields will have to work real hard for a takedown so he can stay loose and unload with the strikes.



> Basically what ever GSP does to his last opponent is ALWAYS what people think he will do to his next. If he wrestles them for 25 minutes, he's going to wrestle the next opponent. If he jabs them, he's going to jab the next guy, blah blah blah,


Yup, and that's what's so fun about watching him fight and what makes him so hard to beat, he's always improving his skills and coming up with something new so no one really knows what to prepare for.


----------



## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

limba said:


> Kampmann could have easily finished Shields, if only he wouldn't have had a sudden loss of intelligence and decided to grapple.
> EASILY!
> 
> And it wasn't about Shields having a bad weight cut.



How could Kampmann have "easily" finished Shields? If he could have finished him he would have, it would be the biggest win of his career by a huge margin. He didn't "decide" to grapple, it's sort of the only thing you can do when you're being attacked on the ground.


And it's a fact Shields had a bad weight cut. He's been in multiple 25 minute fights and fought twice in one night before with zero loss of energy, and he was tired in the middle of round one in his first fight at 170lbs.


In my opinion it was a mistake to move to 170lbs anyway. Henderson was the #2 guy at MW and Shields took him out dominantly. He has a great chance stylistically at MW to beat the champion but much less of a chance stylistically at WW to beat the champion. Plus MW is less stacked, I dunno what he was thinking really.


----------



## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> How could Kampmann have "easily" finished Shields? If he could have finished him he would have, it would be the biggest win of his career by a huge margin. He didn't "decide" to grapple, it's sort of the only thing you can do when you're being attacked on the ground.
> 
> 
> And it's a fact Shields had a bad weight cut. He's been in multiple 25 minute fights and fought twice in one night before with zero loss of energy, and he was tired in the middle of round one in his first fight at 170lbs.
> ...


He was thinking the UFC told him he would be fighting at 170 would be my guess.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

RustyRenegade said:


> He was thinking the UFC told him he would be fighting at 170 would be my guess.






> "[UFC matchmaker] Joe Silva has a couple rules that he lives by, one of which is he'll never tell a fighter what weight to fight at, and he'll never make a fighter fight injured," Pavia said. "And he'll tell you that over and over again.


http://mmajunkie.com/news/19272/ufc...mp-considering-move-to-middleweight-class.mma


This was the first link I could find but I think it's been said multiple times that Joe Silva doesn't tell fighters what weight to fight at. 


That being said I think you're on to something. Anderson Silva has a good amount of challengers left at 185, but people are becoming bored with GSP's fights because of just how dominant he's looked against the top guys, he's basically just rematching guys now. 


It's possible that Dana White himself offered him a good amount more for his contract if he chose to fight at welterweight, who knows.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Jake Shields is a different class to the likes of Josh Koscheck.

You dont go on 15 fight winning streaks against top level competition, most of them won in complete dominant fashion if you're not the dogs bollocks.

Am I saying Shields will beat GSP? No, but I do think he will make it a real tough fight, GSP's toughest fight yet.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> http://mmajunkie.com/news/19272/ufc...mp-considering-move-to-middleweight-class.mma
> 
> 
> This was the first link I could find but I think it's been said multiple times that Joe Silva doesn't tell fighters what weight to fight at.
> ...


There's a video that I'm not even sure where to look for of Dana saying they wanted Jake at 170 right after he signed. I'll give it a go but doubt I find it tbh:thumbsdown:


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

jake shields wins a decision, ill keep saying it in every gsp-shields related thread


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I saw Jake Shields barely submit an amateur in Bully Beatdown three times I believe in a span of three minutes about. He seemed like he was struggling a bit. 

He couldn't submit Miller, Hendo or even Kampmann who's predominately a striker. 

GSP will light him up on the feet. Phil Nurse will probably tell him to land inside leg kicks to chop his legs ultimately preventing him from shooting in properly. 

If GSP wants to put a stamp on his legacy then he needs to FINISH him the way Anderson Silva has done. 

Then the SUPER FIGHT is set.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

No_Mercy said:


> I saw Jake Shields barely submit an amateur in Bully Beatdown three times I believe in a span of three minutes about. He seemed like he was struggling a bit.
> 
> He couldn't submit Miller, Hendo or even Kampmann who's predominately a striker.
> 
> ...


he doesnt need to sub gsp, he can just keep gsp down and advance position and grind out a decision, saying he cant take gsp down would be ignorant, dan henderson is a much bigger and better wrestler than georges


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> How could Kampmann have "easily" finished Shields? If he could have finished him he would have, it would be the biggest win of his career by a huge margin. He didn't "decide" to grapple, it's sort of the only thing you can do when you're being attacked on the ground.


Kampmann dominated Shields on the feet: he was landing very good shots on Shields, he tagged him a lot of times and he connected with that big knee, that sent Shields to the ground. 
Kampmann could have easily gotten back to his feet and force Shields to get up also. Instead he "agreed" to grapple. 
You're not forced to fight on the ground if you don't want to...Kampmann doesn't know that maybe.

Wich i still don't understand up to this day. 


> khoveraki said:
> 
> 
> > It's possible that Dana White himself offered him a good amount more for his contract if he chose to fight at welterweight, who knows.
> ...


I agree also.
GSP needed a new opponent, one he hasn't faced so far and Shields was spot on.



No_Mercy said:


> GSP will light him up on the feet. Phil Nurse will probably tell him to land inside leg kicks to chop his legs ultimately preventing him from shooting in properly.


Shields' ring movement is not that great annyway. If you take his legs out also, he becomes a sitting target for those jabs. 

Throw in some Superman punches and that's a streategy for the early parts of each round right there.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

UFC_OWNS said:


> he doesnt need to sub gsp, he can just keep gsp down and advance position and grind out a decision, saying he cant take gsp down would be ignorant, dan henderson is a much bigger and better wrestler than georges


On the other hand Shields had half his takedowns stuffed by Paul Daley, the same guy that Koscheck planted on his ass every time without even trying. Koscheck, who only got a single takedown per fight against GSP, I think he was something like 2 out of 8 in total.

As for Hendo, yes he's bigger and has better credentials, however he's predictable and moves like a slug compared to GSP. He also doesn't have the footwork, reaction time and explosiveness of GSP, as soon as you move, GSP ain't there. That's going to be Shields' biggest problem, keeping up with the riddum.


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## <M>MA (Nov 20, 2006)

GSP via dismantle..

Shields will try to take him down, he'll get stuffed, jabbed in the face a hundred times and gas.

GSP has a 4 inch reach advantage and he'll use it.

GSP will end it in the late 3rd or early 4th.


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## smokelaw1 (Aug 3, 2007)

limba said:


> Kampmann could have easily gotten back to his feet and force Shields to get up also. Instead he "agreed" to grapple.
> You're not forced to fight on the ground if you don't want to...Kampmann doesn't know that maybe.


Not sure I get where you're coming from here. Shields has a pretty friggen nasty ground game. A big chunck of that is being able to keep someone there. If my BJJ coach (who, let's just assume I can take out onthe feet) wants to keep me on the ground, I am staying on the damned ground until he lets me up. Are you saying Kampmann is good enough on the ground himself to be able to pop back up? That's debateable. Are you saying it is always an option in a fight? See some of Damian Maiea's SOTN fights for my rebuttal.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

smokelaw1 said:


> Not sure I get where you're coming from here. Shields has a pretty friggen nasty ground game. A big chunck of that is being able to keep someone there. If my BJJ coach (who, let's just assume I can take out onthe feet) wants to keep me on the ground, I am staying on the damned ground until he lets me up. Are you saying Kampmann is good enough on the ground himself to be able to pop back up? That's debateable. Are you saying it is always an option in a fight? See some of Damian Maiea's SOTN fights for my rebuttal.


Everything is debatable. But my point is:
Kampmann was comfortably winning the fight on the feet. And he hurt Shields really badly. A very tired/gassed Shields i may add.
Espcially this knee:









That hurt Shields a lot. Because once it connected, Shields went down. I think Kampmann could have shaken Shields off and get back to his feet, making this a stand-up fight.
But, it's just my opinion.

But for some strange reason, Kampmann tends to fight into his opponents stregth. He practically shot himself in the foot when he decided to strike with Daley. And against Diego he also showed glimpses of abandoning a good gameplan (even though some say he might have won that fight annyway - ans the Shields one also).


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## smokelaw1 (Aug 3, 2007)

All good points. At that moment (post knee), I think you're right, he could have gotten up. Also, I agree he tends to make fights ahrder for himself. I hope he can break the habit. 

Now we're a bit off topic (sorry everybody). 

GSP is going to destroy shields. I can't wait.


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## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

I still laugh every time I see the title to this thread.


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

enceledus said:


> I still laugh every time I see the title to this thread.


I agree...I think the only way Shields will "toy" with GSP is if he has swine flue and a brain injury.:confused02:


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

That knee didn't drop Shields, you can see clear as day Shields reaching for the single as soon as Kampmann brings the knee up.


What was that fight where that exact thing happened and the ref stopped it mistakenly? I can't remember.



Anyway Limba if you're basing the one time Shields struggled with a weight cut as proof that GSP will beat him you're arguing poorly.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

UFC_OWNS said:


> he doesnt need to sub gsp, he can just keep gsp down and advance position and grind out a decision, saying he cant take gsp down would be ignorant, dan henderson is a much bigger and better wrestler than georges


I don't see any reason to believe Hendo is "a much...better wrestler than georges,". Hendo may have better credentials but GSP has been improving his wrestling and tdd exponentially for years. Hendo at this point mainly does a cardio camp but trains very little new technique.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> That knee didn't drop Shields, you can see clear as day Shields reaching for the single as soon as Kampmann brings the knee up.


In a quick re-watch you are correct that Shields reached for the knee. You are wrong that the knee didn't drop him. Watch his head and his hands and they tell the story of a guy who saw stars for a few seconds.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

cdtcpl said:


> In a quick re-watch you are correct that Shields reached for the knee. You are wrong that the knee didn't drop him. Watch his head and his hands and they tell the story of a guy who saw stars for a few seconds.



His hands stay glued to Kampmann's legs and it doesn't seem like he gets rubberlegs or anything. I've watched that gif (and the video) probably a hundred times, to me the knee strikes his forehead when Shields is ducking for the take-down.




Either way, that wasn't the real Shields in there, he was gassed round one and that has never happened to him before, against anyone.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Shields getting beat up on the feet by kampmann is a clear indication that he was no where near 100 percent for that fight. Think about it. Shields has fought better strikers than Kampmann (some MUCH BETTER) and they havnt come close to touching him on the feet. Paul Daley for example. We all seen what Daley did to Kampmann. Shields pretty much had his way with Daley and he was able to land nothing on the feet.

Apart from the first round against Hendo, he actually out struck and beat Hendo on the feet as well as on the ground. 

I just dont see the point in judging Shields from one fight with kampmann where it is clear as day he wasnt any where near 100 percent for that fight. What about his other 14 wins in his streak? People just ignore them?

Beating Carlos Condit and Yushin Okami on the same night is pretty damn impressive.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Beating Carlos Condit and Yushin Okami on the same night is pretty damn impressive.


You mean that thing that happened 5 years ago where he decisioned everyone and had a split decision against Okami? 

I also like the fact that people keep saying it was 'obviously not the real Shields' in the Kampmann fight but then refuse to recognize that the Hendo that nearly KO'ed him wasn't the real Hendo that night. Hendo was talked about prior to the fight walking around like Frankenstein because his back was jacked.

I'm not saying Shields is a bad fighter, I'll even give him the bad weight cut excuse because he had been fighting at 185, but he has not been impressive as of late. At the end of most of his fights his face looks worse than his opponents because of how little damage he inflicts.

A win of any kind over GSP would change my feelings of him, but I currently believe GSP will dominate Shields anywhere the fight goes.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

The more I've been thinking about this the last few days the more I feel it will hold true come fight night...

If theres one small ***** in GSP's game it's his jiu-jitsu. I've seen him make mistakes that someone like shields will capitalize on and make him pay for dearly. That being said, gsp doesn't make a lot of them, so shields will have to react to it very quickly.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> That knee didn't drop Shields, you can see clear as day Shields reaching for the single as soon as Kampmann brings the knee up.


Of course...i believe Shields saw a quarter on the floor and dived quickly to grab it... :sarcastic12:



khoveraki said:


> Anyway Limba if you're basing the one time Shields struggled with a weight cut as proof that GSP will beat him you're arguing poorly.


Read my posts and see what my opinions are.

1. Yes - I've mentioned the bad weight cut. If it happened once, it could happen again - supposition.
2. On a scale from 1 to 10, GSP's striking is at 8, while Shields' striking is at 4.
GSP will jab jab jab jab kick jab jab kick jab jab superman punch jab jab kick jab jab...2 minutes left - TD.
Shields will be looking for the clinch as soon as the fight starts.



khoveraki said:


> Either way, *that wasn't the real Shields in there*, he was gassed round one and that has never happened to him before, against anyone.



YES IT WAS! THAT WAS THE REAL SHIELDS IN THERE! 
Of he doesn't have a twin brother by accident or a clone.
YES he gassed! Thanks to poor conditioning and bad weight cutting. 
But that's his job and his coaches' job. No one forced him to make his weight cutting or his training in a specific way. 

I'm sick of this argument!
It's the best excuse - for everything.
Everytime something goes wrong - "IT WASN"T THE REAL..X.."

I'm gonna start using it myself. For everything i do...
Thanks





Mckeever said:


> *Shields getting beat up on the feet by kampmann is a clear indication that he was no where near 100 percent for that fight.* Think about it. Shields has fought better strikers than Kampmann (some MUCH BETTER) and they havnt come close to touching him on the feet. Paul Daley for example. We all seen what Daley did to Kampmann. Shields pretty much had his way with Daley and he was able to land nothing on the feet.


Kampmann beat Shields on the feet because he is a better striker than Shileds is.
Simple as that.
Shields has mediocre striking.



Mckeever said:


> I just dont see the point in judging Shields from one fight with kampmann where it is clear as day he wasnt any where near 100 percent for that fight. What about his other 14 wins in his streak? People just ignore them?
> 
> No. i'm not ignoring them.
> But, the fact that he struggled against Kampmann, says something.
> ...


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

AlphaDawg said:


> Shields won't be able to take him down. GSP is just going to jab Shields with absolutely no intention to finish for yet another boring 25 minute decision.
> 
> Just thinking of this fight makes me sleepy.


7 out of 10 times this is likely to happen, but am hoping Jake does manage to get him down early on in any round, i think 2-3 mins on the floor and Jake could get the sub.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

There's no way Shields subs GSP. He couldn't sub Kampmann, Henderson or Mayhem in his 3 most recent fights yet he can sub GSP? Hmmm. Don't buy it myself.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

TraMaI said:


> The more I've been thinking about this the last few days the more I feel it will hold true come fight night...
> 
> If theres one small ***** in GSP's game it's his jiu-jitsu. I've seen him make mistakes that someone like shields will capitalize on and make him pay for dearly. That being said, gsp doesn't make a lot of them, so shields will have to react to it very quickly.


I completely believe that Jake could sub GSP off his back. The problem is GSP is going to jabfuck him to another UD unless Jake gasses like he did against Kampmann in which case GSP will still jabfuck him until Jake quits on the stool or can't stand anymore.

I will be shocked if GSP takes this to the ground and I don't see Shields taking GSP down. Kos was able to do it because of his takedown style, that driving college wrestling style. Shields is more about taking guys down from the clinch, a place where I don't think GSP will be in a lot and if it does get there I don't see GSP having a hard time staying on his feet from the clinch. Oh and Kos only did it once, but I think his broken face had a lot to do with that fight turning out the way it did. I would have seen GSP still winning, but had Kos' eye not been broken on that first jab I think it would have been a much better fight.


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## skinnyBIGGS (Jul 2, 2010)

Ugh im still not impressed in GSP's performances i want to see his win coloumn stack up due to finishes. Since Serra GSP has lost that creativity in his striking. NOT HATING watch his first 3 UFC fights and watch his last 3 UFC fights his style is soo dry it hurts to watch 5rounds. I miss the spinning kicks the standup game , please dont use his last fight for argument as WHAT STRIKER cant finish a fighter with no visibility to defend incoming strikes from that side. I was shocked GSP couldnt nor tried to finish KOS when he had that edge....Whatever the outcome WW division will change drastically if GSP stales out another decesion he will vanquish his belt and fight A silva for a superfight which the only reason why i would want to watch is to see GSP get posterized . Serious i was a fan from the beginning but after the mass appeals to his over grease usuage from several crediable fighters i stopped and have been rooting for him to get a smackdown


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I'm not just looking past the shields/gap fight, I'm looking past his fight after he gets owned by gsp. I think shields is going to go 0-2/0-3 depending on who he gets. I think fitch would tool him, I think kos has a good chance.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

xeberus said:


> I'm not just looking past the shields/gap fight, I'm looking past his fight after he gets owned by gsp. I think shields is going to go 0-2/0-3 depending on who he gets. I think fitch would tool him, I think kos has a good chance.


Fitch that eats MEAT would destroy Jake Shields. Fitch that is a hippie ass vegetarian might not.  and i train at AKA so it pains me to say that.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

skinnyBIGGS said:


> Ugh im still not impressed in GSP's performances i want to see his win coloumn stack up due to finishes. Since Serra GSP has lost that creativity in his striking. NOT HATING watch his first 3 UFC fights and watch his last 3 UFC fights his style is soo dry it hurts to watch 5rounds. I miss the spinning kicks the standup game , please dont use his last fight for argument as WHAT STRIKER cant finish a fighter with no visibility to defend incoming strikes from that side. I was shocked GSP couldnt nor tried to finish KOS when he had that edge....Whatever the outcome WW division will change drastically if GSP stales out another decesion he will vanquish his belt and fight A silva for a superfight which the only reason why i would want to watch is to see GSP get posterized . Serious i was a fan from the beginning but after the mass appeals to his over grease usuage from several crediable fighters i stopped and have been rooting for him to get a smackdown


You seriously negative rep me for my supposedly bad grammar then go on to bastardize the English language like this? You're a joke.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Ape City said:


> You seriously negative rep me for my supposedly bad grammar then go on to bastardize the English language like this? You're a joke.


That's awesome! That "paragraph" he posted was giving me a headache and he's bad mouthing someone? Good times


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Ape City said:


> You seriously negative rep me for my supposedly bad grammar then go on to bastardize the English language like this? You're a joke.





RustyRenegade said:


> That's awesome! That "paragraph" he posted was giving me a headache and he's bad mouthing someone? Good times


There's a reason he's red.


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

KryOnicle said:


> There's no way Shields subs GSP. He couldn't sub Kampmann, Henderson or Mayhem in his 3 most recent fights yet he can sub GSP? Hmmm. Don't buy it myself.


Henderson and Mayhem are way bigger and stronger than jake and he was tooling them on the ground, And he didnt look himself in the Kampmann fight, he was exhausted after the first round which is never like him considering he went the full 5 rounds no problem in his 2 fights before that. Plus i would argue that Kampmann's BJJ is better than GSP's. so i think Jake has a decent chance at subbing him if he manages to get to the floor and if he can get him to the floor anyway with out to much problem he wouldnt have to sub him, he could just GSP him to decision.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

DJ Syko said:


> Henderson and Mayhem are way bigger and stronger than jake and he was tooling them on the ground, And he didnt look himself in the Kampmann fight, he was exhausted after the first round which is never like him considering he went the full 5 rounds no problem in his 2 fights before that. Plus i would argue that Kampmann's BJJ is better than GSP's. so i think Jake has a decent chance at subbing him if he manages to get to the floor and if he can get him to the floor anyway with out to much problem he wouldnt have to sub him, he could just GSP him to decision.


GSP will beat Jake Shields pretty easiley. I doubt GSP is going to ever get submitted again unless he stays till past his prime. Every challenger GSP has is supposed to beat him somehow but he shuts them all down. This will be NOOO different.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Sure Fitch would beat the Shields from the Kampmann fight. But the real Shields would school Fitch, and probably sink in that RNC like Penn tried and like Shields actually did in a grappling tournament.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> GSP will beat Jake Shields pretty easiley. I doubt GSP is going to ever get submitted again unless he stays till past his prime. Every challenger GSP has is supposed to beat him somehow but he shuts them all down. This will be NOOO different.


could be, then again how manu elite BJJ fighters has GSP faced?? 1 in BJ...a bloated LW who doesnt sub from his back, he had a ridiculous size advantage over BJ, that was his only fight against a credible BJJ guy

i think that didnt prove much, just because he survived BJ he cant get subbed? why? a guy like maia or jacare could sub him no problem IMO, the difficult part is taking the fight to the ground and holding him there, but i dont know where ppl got this idea that GSP is a master submission artist:confused02:


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> Sure Fitch would beat the Shields from the Kampmann fight. But the real Shields would school Fitch, and probably sink in that RNC like Penn tried and like Shields actually did in a grappling tournament.


Sure the Fitch from the BJ fight would get subbed by Jake Shields but the Fitch from any previous fight would destroy Shields. (See what i did there)




ACTAFOOL said:


> could be, then again how manu elite BJJ fighters has GSP faced?? 1 in BJ...a bloated LW who doesnt sub from his back, he had a ridiculous size advantage over BJ, that was his only fight against a credible BJJ guy
> 
> i think that didnt prove much, just because he survived BJ he cant get subbed? why? a guy like maia or jacare could sub him no problem IMO, the difficult part is taking the fight to the ground and holding him there, but *i dont know where ppl got this idea that GSP is a master submission artist*:confused02:


Who has ever said that GSP is a master submission artist?? I wonder when it became acceptable for people online to take 1 word and fill in the rest for other people. I doubt anyone on this forum or most other forums has ever claimed that GSP has better submission skills then Jake Shields. I also dont see many people if ANY using the BJ fight to support the claim that Jake Shields couldnt sub GSP. I would go further into detail about why i think GSP wont get subbed BUT i doubt it matters since you are one of those that puts words into peoples mouths. So you can just make something up and just run with it. :thumbsup:


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> Sure the Fitch from the BJ fight would get subbed by Jake Shields but the Fitch from any previous fight would destroy Shields. (See what i did there)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol just some exageration to get my point across easier, chill out man:thumb02: its obvious you didnt say that and any1 with half a brain reading my post would know i wasnt implying you did

you just said you dont see any1 submitting GSP and i wanted to know why since he hasnt proved to be a great bjj guy, i mentioned penn because penn is the onyl measuring stick we have of him against an elite bjj guy

and you didnt say it but many members here on this forum and many other forums say ''BJ didnt sub GSP, shields has no chance''

for you to claim GSP cant get subbed i would like to know your reasons behind it, hell im not a thick headed person, if some1 makes enough valid points i do change my opinion:thumbsup:

im just curious, i really dont see how you cant see him getting subbed by an elite bjj guy, unless you meant that you simply cant see any1 taking him down and controlling him on the ground to be able to do that, if thats the case i agree


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

That match was forever ago man. You and I both know neither man is that same fighter. It's just like Alvez and Fitch. Also the fact that it's mma and not just straight grappling makes a huge difference. That being said it would be a very competitive fight and I'm not sure I could outright pick a winner. Standing I think Jon would win but not by much and the ground goes to whoever gets the takedown imo. Both men have suffocating top control so I don't see any sweeps happening. Jon's submission defense is amazing and I'm not sure he has the offensive prowess to even come close to subbing jake.

I'd like to see that fight way more than either man fighting gsp to be honest


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

I not a gsp fan but the dude has proved me wrong over and over again. I want sheilds to win but i would not be shock if gsp kills him on the ground.


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

well, GSP sums it up nicely in his ufc 128 interview

Shields is a JJ specialist, GSP knows what Shields will try to do to him, but Shields doesn't know what to expect.

and this, in my opinion, makes the world of a difference. if you know what to expect, you can prepare for it, if you have to prepare to defend against sub for 3 months, it's better than if you have to prepare to defend against, maybe strikes, maybe wrestling, maybe JJ

So I guess Shields will come to this fight well prepared in all areas and GSP will come to the fight well prepared in sub defense and working off his back on the ground

but in the end GSP pretty much excels in all areas (some more than others but you can't say he's bad at anything really) while I'm not sure if Shields is as much "multi dimensionned" as GSP can be.

So how it could happen is GSP neutralizing Shields offense, trying to take advantage of opportunities if they happen but without forcing in the first rounds.

Eventually Shields would lose patience or get tired at some point in the later rounds and GSP would capitalize on this.

I don't see GSP going to the ground and staying there unless he wants to, I don't see Shields winning on the feet either, and as GSP is smart, he'll probably let Shields attack and wear himself out while breaking his will.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

I also don't think GSP is going to try and keep the fight standing for most of the fight like most people seem to think. I think GSP is going to pull a BJ Penn and actually go for take downs against Shields to really catch him off guard. No doubt Shields will be expecting GSP's game plan to revolve around stuffing the take down and keeping it on the feet, but I think GSP shooting for take downs would really surprise and shock him. I expect GSP to do just that.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> I also don't think GSP is going to try and keep the fight standing for most of the fight like most people seem to think. I think GSP is going to pull a BJ Penn and actually go for take downs against Shields to really catch him off guard. No doubt Shields will be expecting GSP's game plan to revolve around stuffing the take down and keeping it on the feet, but I think GSP shooting for take downs would really surprise and shock him. I expect GSP to do just that.


Shut up, you're ruining some bets for me!  I have been thinking the same thing (that GSP will take Shields down), the danger to GSP on the ground is exaggerated. GSP isn't a noob on the ground, he has been subbed once in 23 fights. I find it hard to believe Kampmann is going to go three rounds with Shields, lots of that on the ground, and not get subbed but somehow GSP is in huge trouble if it goes to the mat? 

GSP's top control is the best in MMA or one of the top 3 at least. He'll be fine as long as he is on top and when is he ever not? He has spent what, less than 2 minutes of his MMA career on his back?


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Drogo said:


> Shut up, you're ruining some bets for me!  I have been thinking the same thing (that GSP will take Shields down), the danger to GSP on the ground is exaggerated. GSP isn't a noob on the ground, he has been subbed once in 23 fights. I find it hard to believe Kampmann is going to go three rounds with Shields, lots of that on the ground, and not get subbed but somehow GSP is in huge trouble if it goes to the mat?
> 
> GSP's top control is the best in MMA or one of the top 3 at least. He'll be fine as long as he is on top and when is he ever not? He has spent what, less than 2 minutes of his MMA career on his back?


And why exactly should he take Jake down if he has the by far biggest edge on the feet? Don't quite understand the logic behind that one.. "maybe" he would shoot in for 1 or 2 Takedown in the fight just to get his striking more loose, but else it's pointless to do that when you are soooo far ahead on the feet. It's not even close on the feet, it's entire planet!


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Confusion factor. Shields won't be expecting to get taken down. He honestly believes that GSP will be too wary of him to go to the ground with him. Taking him down wil shake that confidence. Make him rethink his gameplan. Cause doubt. It's what GSP does to everyone. Prove that he's not afraid of them anywhere, mix it up, and impose his gameplan.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> Confusion factor. Shields won't be expecting to get taken down. He honestly believes that GSP will be too wary of him to go to the ground with him. Taking him down wil shake that confidence. Make him rethink his gameplan. Cause doubt. It's what GSP does to everyone. Prove that he's not afraid of them anywhere, mix it up, and impose his gameplan.


But you guys can't compare this to the BJ/Fitch situation. BJ was a huge believer that he could submit Fitch in the first round, he doesn't went there to do a little GnP he went for the finish right away, he knew he had a big edge there. Does GSP? The only thing GSP would do is rest in Shields guard and throw some punches at him until the round is over.. thats not really a big suprising factor in my eyes.

If he would go for a quick submission, now that would really be a shocker!


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

It's a finishing or even a damaging tactic. It's a morale based one. Shields knows that his ground game is his sole chance to win this fight so he will expect GSP to keep the fight standing. By taking him down GSP will plant doubt into Shields mind. Disturb his confidence and disrupt his gameplan. Make him believe that GSP isn't afraid of his ground game - which in all likelihood he isn't. 

At least that is what he would want to happen.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Man it astounds me how much people are underrating jakes ground game... Jake may not just toy with gsp on the ground but he is going to give him hell. Seriously the guys grappling is so bad that he has some terrible stand up and hes STILL been undefeated for 6 years.


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## Imperador (May 9, 2010)

If Jake can actually get GSP to the ground, then maybe we'll see him toy with GSP on the group. But that's _*if*_, GSP's takedown defense is second to none, so I guess we will see some heavy sprawling. I think this will be GSP's hardest challenge, I don't think he's fought against anyone who has BJJ credentials like Shields, obviously apart from BJ.


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