# ***OFFICIAL*** Matt Hughes vs. Matt Serra Pre/Post Fight Discussion Thread



## Walker (May 27, 2007)

*Please conduct ALL of your discussion in regards to Matt Hughes facing Matt Serra in this thread. All threads made in regards to this fight will be merged into this one.*​


----------



## NastyNinja (Feb 4, 2009)

I think Matt will take this easy, Matt will use a move nobody has seen Matt do, Watch out Matt is going to get his belt back by doing it Matts way.


----------



## Kimura_Korey (Apr 28, 2009)

I agree I defenitly see Matt taking this one easily!


----------



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

I hate Hughes more than any human being alive. So I cant pick him to win this fight. Even though I cant see Serra stopping the TD's. I wouldnt be shocked if Serra caught him in a triangle or armbar from his back. People forget how good Serra's jitz is sometimes. His transitions and movement is just so much more explosive at 155 though. Hes kinda fat and slow at 170.


----------



## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

I hope da Terra makes Hughes tap for Royce baby!


----------



## NastyNinja (Feb 4, 2009)

Serra trains with some great jits people, I would give him a very good shot now, he could suprise us this time, I really think Serra has been charging up to power level 9000 for 4 episodes and about to bring some pain.


----------



## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> I hate Hughes more than any human being alive. So I cant pick him to win this fight. People forget how good Serra's jitz is sometimes.


Good jitz in pure grappling, he hasn't done anything impressive grappling wise in MMA. 4 subs in 14 fights and only 1 of those was in the UFC and all of them were against complete nobodies. His BJJ has been non existent in the UFC. 

I hate Hughes too, I hear you there but I still pick him to win this.


----------



## List (May 1, 2009)

For who I want to win I'd choose Hughes, really like him and want him to continue fighting. As much as I do not want Serra to win I don't see him losing very easily, I mean it is possible, but if I had to put money on it I'd say Serra.


----------



## Randomus (Apr 30, 2009)

Shame this fight has lost all of its luster.

Don't honestly like either fighter, but think Hughes will GnP Serra to force a TKO stoppage. Serra's BJJ is world class in grappling, but Hughes is knowledgeable enough to avoid the submissions on the ground IMO.

Hughes by TKO, R2


----------



## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Drogo said:


> Good jitz in pure grappling, he hasn't done anything impressive grappling wise in MMA. 4 subs in 14 fights and only 1 of those was in the UFC and all of them were against complete nobodies. His BJJ has been non existent in the UFC.
> 
> I hate Hughes too, I hear you there but I still pick him to win this.


Agreed, I dont even want to say it and I hope im wrong.


----------



## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

I think Serra will pick him apart standing. Hughes won't be able to find a hole in his guard and will be forced back up on their feet. Serra by tko in the 2nd. I just don't see the desire in Hughes anymore.


----------



## UKRampage (Jan 28, 2009)

This is a long overdue and "who cares" match up. I cant see either fighter getting back to the top so its hard to get excited. When it comes down to it though, Hughes is the far superior fighter and I see him walking away with the W.


----------



## kilik (Oct 12, 2007)

I forgot this fight was on UFC 98, I think hughes wins this as Serra cant stop his takedowns and he wont submit him. Stand up wise they are similar.

I dont know how Serra can win this.


----------



## Sojuuk (Apr 22, 2008)

I honestly DO NOT care about this fight anymore. They are 2 years too late.

I want serra to win but it's likely going to be hughes.


----------



## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

I think Serra is going to be harder to take down then some people are saying. He has a really solid base, short and heavy lol.


----------



## Josh Jones III (Mar 20, 2009)

I'd love to see da Terra win but I just don't see it happening. GSP used his wrestling to overpower Serra last time and even though Serra is heavy/stocky, he's still a smaller man than Hughes. Hughes will lie on top of him.


----------



## Kimura_Korey (Apr 28, 2009)

Who do you guys think will win the wrestling aspect of the fight? I know Hughes is an amazing wrestler but I really think Serra will be able to control him better and will show that night as the better wrestler. I am really starting to make myself believe that there is no way Serra loses, but I know I can't think like that.

Who do you guys believe will be the better wrestler that night?


----------



## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

This fight will address the question we have been longing to have answered. 

Who is the most overrated fighter in the UFC?

I hate Hughes, and I like Serra, but they are both grotesquely overrated. Unfortunately Hughes is slightly less overrated than Serra so he will win this.


----------



## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

Finnsidious said:


> This fight will address the question we have been longing to have answered.
> 
> Who is the most overrated fighter in the UFC?
> 
> I hate Hughes, and I like Serra, but they are both grotesquely overrated. Unfortunately Hughes is slightly less overrated than Serra so he will win this.


I'm not a Hughes fan but I don't think he is grotesquely over rated. He is a little over rated maybe due to the level of competition he faced compared to now but he still had an impressive run.


----------



## brief (Nov 19, 2006)

Hughes takes this, Serra's got nothing on Hughes.


----------



## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

I so want this card to happen already. I need to build a time machine.


----------



## MooJuice (Dec 12, 2008)

Nate, i've got some pencils, a ruler, 3 paperclips and some foam.

Let me just see if i can McGuyver one..


----------



## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

Sweet I have a watch pin, a rubber band and a piston form a V8. Might be able to combine them.


----------



## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

Hughes by unanimous decision. 
He's gonna take Serra down repeatedly, stuff him up against the cage and maul him. Because thats what Hughes does....or at least he used to.


----------



## justchico (Jul 28, 2008)

I'm really on the fence over this one. One one hand, I used to really like Hughes until his 2nd run as a coach on TUF. Then, he came across as a stereotypical, arrogant jock/bully and I lost a lot of respect for him.

On the other hand, I totally *agree* with Hughes in that I can't let my kid watch UFC with me when Serra is on because he throws out f-bombs (and other expletives) like candy at a parade. So, I guess, for me, it comes down to how they each fared against the most recent common opponent I can think of, GSP.

Serra/GSP I -- GSP gets caught with a *very* heavy hand and it's lights-out

Serra/GSP II -- Serra is just decimated by a guy at the top of the game now.

Hughes/GSP I -- The more experienced Hughes armbars a star-struck GSP

Hughes/GSP II -- Hughes is decimated by a guy at the top of the game.

Overall, I think that Serra beat the better GSP of the 2. I don't think he will be able to stop Hughes's takedowns, but with his BJJ, I don't think that will matter. I don't remember Hughes outright KO'ing anyone, so I have to give Serra the advantage standing and a slight advantage on the ground. So, in what is probably a MUCH longer explanation than was really necessary, I'm picking Serra...I just hope he doesn't get interviewed after the fight so my kid can watch with me


----------



## tapout189 (Aug 13, 2006)

definitely goin with Hughes on this one! Late TKO or UD.


----------



## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

Im not to big on either one so no emotion on this fight, Hughes no doubt, and this fight will fought on the groung..


----------



## Prolific (May 7, 2009)

Got to go with Serra winning by Tko Hughes still has good take downs but never really had that great of hands.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Ugh, I don't care at all about this fight. Or these fighters.


----------



## Rick The Impelr (Oct 5, 2008)

Serra, Balboa, Italianos.


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

****** is going to ko/tko farmboy in the first.


----------



## crispsteez (Jul 1, 2008)

is that demarques i see walking in with hughes? didn't know he trained hughes. anyways, war serra! (i expect this to be a sonnen/miller 2)


----------



## Rick The Impelr (Oct 5, 2008)

I think Matt is going to win this.


----------



## Rick The Impelr (Oct 5, 2008)

Serra pointing to Hughes to go to his corner over there!! LOL


----------



## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

And a nice headbutt by Serra...


----------



## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

That's weird, he knows Hughes was hurt from an illegal attack and he continued to try and finish him? That's not cool in my opinion.


----------



## deanmzi (Oct 15, 2006)

Hughes is not a contender at this point in his career


----------



## Rick The Impelr (Oct 5, 2008)

*sighs* The battle of the has beens.


----------



## k3232x (Sep 17, 2008)

wow nice takedown my Serra.


----------



## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

I picked Hughes, but I'm not happy he won. It was a close fight: Hughes by lay 'n pray.


----------



## Tepang (Sep 17, 2008)

all 3 judges should be fired. Serra clearly won the 1st and 3rd round. And when he was losing, it was only weak ass lay n pray. What a ******* bullshit decision and I don't even like matt serra. These judges ******* suck.


----------



## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

No surprises. Serra only won round 1 because of the head butt, otherwise it would have been the 30-27, 3 rounds of lay n pray that we all expected.


----------



## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Why do you feel that way Tepang? Serra only won the first round because of an illegal head butt. I'm happy with the decision.


----------



## k3232x (Sep 17, 2008)

Damn it there goes my 50,000 points.


----------



## Tepang (Sep 17, 2008)

the headbutt barely did anything, it was the follow up punches that wrecked hughes. it was a bullshit call and deep down everyone knows it. hughes really did no damage the whole fight, even serras take down in round 3 was more impressive.

what a bunch of shithead judges


----------



## deanmzi (Oct 15, 2006)

Tepang said:


> all 3 judges should be fired. Serra clearly won the 1st and 3rd round. And when he was losing, it was only weak ass lay n pray. What a ******* bullshit decision and I don't even like matt serra. These judges ******* suck.


well you could give him the 3rd if submission attempts counted for points, maybe if he had Hughes in a more precarious position. I thought he would steal that round on at least 1 judges card though


----------



## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

What are you talking about? The head butt resulted in all of those punches. Hughes couldn't regain his composure. His heart kept him in the fight after that unfair assault from Serra.


----------



## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Did Hughes say he wasn't gonna fight in the UFC anymore?


----------



## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

Pretty sure that played out how most people thought it would....Serra wasn't going to KO Hughes and Hughes isn't good enough to give Serra too much GnP so the points were mostly from TD's.

Can't believe Hughes survived the 1st round though, headbutt plus a couple nice shots and he kept his fighter instinct....that was about the only cool thing in the fight.


----------



## Rayhush (Oct 15, 2006)

I agree with Serra doing overall more damage, but to say the headbutt barely did anything is completely false. The headbutt straight dropped Hughes. Serra did follow it up with some nice punches, but the headbutt was by far the most damaging thing in the fight.


----------



## Tepang (Sep 17, 2008)

Nick_V03 said:


> What are you talking about? The head butt resulted in all of those punches. Hughes couldn't regain his composure. His heart kept him in the fight after that unfair assault from Serra.


nice excuse, if it was a true head butt that hurt that bad it wouldve been a NC. his head barely touched him. hughes got his ass whooped by a 5"6 rat, end of story. Hughes sucks and is a boring fighter.


----------



## RaisingCajun (Jun 22, 2008)

Tepang said:


> the headbutt barely did anything, it was the follow up punches that wrecked hughes. it was a bullshit call and deep down everyone knows it. hughes really did no damage the whole fight, even serras take down in round 3 was more impressive.
> 
> what a bunch of shithead judges


Get hit on the chin with a headbutt and see if you can defend yourself.


----------



## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Tepang said:


> nice excuse, if it was a true head butt that hurt that bad it wouldve been a NC. his head barely touched him. hughes got his ass whooped by a 5"6 rat, end of story. Hughes sucks and is a boring fighter.


You're just bitter because Serra didn't have the skill set to beat Hughes.

It wasn't a no contest because Hughes wasn't out cold and could continue. He was just rocked and Serra took that cheap opportunity to try and finish him.

Don't be a hater.


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Serra won that fight, he should have been given the third and first.


----------



## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

I thought it looked like a draw, so I can't complain if it went 29-28 either way.


----------



## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Notice when Hughes finally regained composure after the head butt and follow up punches in the first round, he started to take over against Serra. I just thought I'd mention that.


----------



## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

Damn man. I lost all my credits on Serra. Oh well it was a good fight that really could of gone either way. I would of judged it for Hughes though.


----------



## Evil Ira (Feb 9, 2009)

Serra thought he'd won at the end! Did you see when Buffer said the judges all scored the match 29-28, he stuck his hand up!


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

Serra didn't deserve to win the round one. He rocked Hughes with a headbutt AND a punch to the back of the head. Unfair and unsportsmanlike. It was very close but Serra didn't deserve to win.


----------



## crispsteez (Jul 1, 2008)

Freelancer said:


> Serra didn't deserve to win the round one. He rocked Hughes with a headbutt AND a punch to the back of the head. *Unfair and unsportsmanlike.* It was very close but Serra didn't deserve to win.


i wouldn't go that far. i don't think he did that on purpose.

edit:
although in retrospect i guess it was a bit messed up to swing on hughes after he felt the headbutt.


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

Therefore Hughes won first 2 rounds and Serra won the third. Close but clear victory for Hughes.


----------



## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

I really wanted Serra to pull it out, but Hughes def won that decision. No dispute. Wouldn't say it was an impressive win, or he actually 'beat' Serra though. Frustrating to see but expected.


----------



## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

*Serra vs Hughes fair? (spoiler)*

Ok, what do you guys think about the decision in this fight? I thought for sure Serra won that fight and when they said Hughes I stood up and yelled bullshit. I think even Hughes thought Serra won because he lifted Serra's hand at the end of the match. I had Serra winning the 1st round. He almost KO'd Hughes and clearly did way more damage. Hughes lay and pray did not hurt Serra at all. I know that there was a head but but it was accidental and it is the refs decision if the judges should take that into account and the ref did not say to take a point away or anything. Serra clearly won round one.

Round 2 Hughes obviously won even though he just layed on him and didn't do any damage.

Round 3 started out in Hughes favor with the take down but he didn't do any damage again. Later Serra had a MUCH MUCH more impressive take down followed with damaging punches and ended with a standing kimora attempt. Serra definitely did more damage that round and won round 3.

With that being said i think it was a bad decision and I think the judges must have been a little Biased. Also, if you look at this fight without going round by round, seriously, who did more damage?


----------



## Ocelot (Sep 6, 2008)

I honestly would have liked to have seen a draw on that one. It was very back and forth and neither really did much legally.


----------



## rogi (Aug 26, 2007)

come one man, he head butted him in round one. otherwise who knows what would happen.

I would score exactly how it was by all 3 judges 29-28.


----------



## name goes here (Aug 15, 2007)

Not really. Serra knew the rules coming in, he let Hughes take him down. By UFC scoring he lost.


----------



## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

rogi said:


> come one man, he head butted him in round one. otherwise who knows what would happen.
> 
> I would score exactly how it was by all 3 judges 29-28.


To be fair, they headbutted one another. But yeah, I was fine with the decision.


----------



## canuckchuck (Oct 15, 2006)

i wanted sara to win but it was obvious to me that hughs won the fight.


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

Yeah he almost KO'd Hughes with a headbutt and a punch to the back of the head.:confused03:
If Serra had rocked him legally he could have won the fight. This way Hughes won.


----------



## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

hughes was on top for most of the third round, thats how he wont he third, and thats how i had it scored, 29-28 hughes.


----------



## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Hughes won, 100% (And I'm hating saying that). Did he win in a non BS way? No. He layed and prayed and got the W. Not happy about it but it happens from time to time.


----------



## putmeonhold (Jul 10, 2006)

*Yep*

I am gonna have to agree with everyone else here man. Not quite sure why you think Serra won, Serra was on his back most of that fight. To answer your question - Hughes inflicted the most damage with all of those Kidney shots.


----------



## DanTheJu (Mar 3, 2007)

I think it was a very close fight. I was heavily rooting for Serra, I just don’t like Hughes, so I scored it 2 rounds to 1 in favor of Serra. But my logic tells me that anybody could have easily given the fight to Hughes. So I was saddened by the decision, but I don’t think it was bad one!


----------



## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Serra did better than I thought he would. Maybe the headbutt took alot out of Hughes?


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

J.P. said:


> Serra did better than I thought he would. Maybe the headbutt took alot out of Hughes?


He asked whether he was knocked down. I'd say that gives you an answer J.P.


----------



## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Freelancer said:


> He asked whether he was knocked down. I'd say that gives you an answer J.P.



Hughes isn't always that spaced out? He said he wants to fight Anderson Silva so IDK all the time about what comes out of his mouth.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Man I was argueing in the bar after this one, guys next to me started cheering when the buzzer went and high fiving saying Serra won and I couldnt help myself I just turned and looked at them and was like WTF? Do you guys not understand how MMA is scored, Hughes spent the majority of the fight in top control and that is huge when scoring the fight. Not possible to not give Hughes the fight depite the fact he seemed to take the easiest route to get it.


----------



## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

Matt Hughes got hip tossed by Serra. What the hell, very bad performance by Hughes. He got the W but whatever I thought Serra fought a better fight Hughes just laid on top long enough to get the nod. If that is all Hughes has left he doesn't need to be fighting, I hope that was just ring rust.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

Hughes took the W in less than impressive form. 

I was rooting for Serra, and thought he might have a chance after the first round, but Serra used his bjj to his disadvantage in the 2nd and 3rd.


----------



## Grappler125 (Jan 23, 2007)

Alright, I'm starting to get kind of frustrated by this thread, and I need to vent a little. This is just my opinion, so if I get flamed for it, I don't really care. Here goes. In my opinion, the only real offense that Serra had (aside from that great takedown at the end of 3) was done after the head butt that rocked Hughes. I'm not saying it was intentional, but all the damage that Serra inflicted immediately following that is really void. Now, here's my biggest gripe about this thread. I can't count how many times I've heard the term "Lay and Pray" since this fight has finished. Now, I'd like to know, where is the line between a top fighter laying and praying, and a bottom fighter holding someone in there guard, or in this case half guard, and waiting for a standup? As accomplished as Matt Serra is as a Jiu Jitsu fighter, I was not impressed with what he did from his back. Other than that omaplotta, what submissions did Serra attempt from the bottom? This fight may have been boring, but at least Hughes tried to pass Serra's guard to achieve the mount at which time Serra pulled half guard and held Hughes there. Serra was totally content to lay on his back and stop Hughes from gaining dominant position or delivering damage from the top. If you're mad about lack of action, look all the way into it. End of rant.


----------



## NGen2010 (Jun 3, 2008)

Tepang said:


> all 3 judges should be fired. Serra clearly won the 1st and 3rd round. And when he was losing, it was only weak ass lay n pray. What a ******* bullshit decision and I don't even like matt serra. These judges ******* suck.


u drunk? Hughes dominated and won this fight. Everyone I was watching with thought he won it with takedowns and a bit of ground and pound. Onjly thing Serra did was land a headbutt that stunned Hughes. That was Serra's only chance. 

Judges fired... man, how far up Serra balls are YOU. Serra needs to fade away. See ya


----------



## NGen2010 (Jun 3, 2008)

Nick_V03 said:


> Notice when Hughes finally regained composure after the head butt and follow up punches in the first round, he started to take over against Serra. I just thought I'd mention that.


100%. That's what I saw and the 8 people I was with saw.


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

putmeonhold said:


> I am gonna have to agree with everyone else here man. Not quite sure why you think Serra won, Serra was on his back most of that fight. To answer your question - Hughes inflicted the most damage with all of those Kidney shots.





Toxic said:


> Man I was argueing in the bar after this one, guys next to me started cheering when the buzzer went and high fiving saying Serra won and I couldnt help myself I just turned and looked at them and was like WTF? Do you guys not understand how MMA is scored, Hughes spent the majority of the fight in top control and that is huge when scoring the fight. Not possible to not give Hughes the fight depite the fact he seemed to take the easiest route to get it.



Are you people joking? Jesus......

Do you guys not know how MMA is scored? It's round by round. Serra took the first, hughes obviously dominated the second, and Serra took the third. They both got takedowns, the difference maker being that Serra was able to completely nullify Hughes offense and escape, whereas Hughes was not. Did hughes even land a proper punch in the third round on the ground?
10-9 Serra
10-9 Hughes
10-9 Serra

I fail to see how that fight could have been scored any other way.


----------



## TALENT (May 21, 2008)

TheNegation said:


> Are you people joking? Jesus......
> 
> Do you guys not know how MMA is scored? It's round by round. Serra took the first, hughes obviously dominated the second, and Serra took the third. They both got takedowns, the difference maker being that Serra was able to completely nullify Hughes offense and escape, whereas Hughes was not. Did hughes even land a proper punch in the third round on the ground?
> 10-9 Serra
> ...


That's how I saw it too. The only thing that I could see about the first round was that after Hughes regained his composure he controlled the pace for the rest of it. Maybe that's why the judges gave it to him?


----------



## rnv18 (Apr 15, 2007)

Whatever, i just remebered why i dont like Hughes. And people were worried machida would be a boring fighter.


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> Are you people joking? Jesus......
> 
> Do you guys not know how MMA is scored? It's round by round. Serra took the first, hughes obviously dominated the second, and Serra took the third. They both got takedowns, the difference maker being that Serra was able to completely nullify Hughes offense and escape, whereas Hughes was not. Did hughes even land a proper punch in the third round on the ground?
> 10-9 Serra
> ...


What makes you think that Serra won the first round?


----------



## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

This is why the UFC scoring sucks. You can do almost nothing during most of the fight, and yet get the W. Just get the guy down for 6 minutes, don't do any damage, and you'll get the W. 

Hughes didn't do anything, no damage at all, no chance of beating the other guy. He didn't land any clean punch or kick, just stayed on top of Serra for most of round 2 and half of round 3 and got the W.

The same happened with Franklin and Henderson.


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

valrond said:


> This is why the UFC scoring sucks. You can do almost nothing during most of the fight, and yet get the W. Just get the guy down for 6 minutes, don't do any damage, and you'll get the W.
> 
> Hughes didn't do anything, no damage at all, no chance of beating the other guy. He didn't land any clean punch or kick, just stayed on top of Serra for most of round 2 and half of round 3 and got the W.
> 
> The same happened with Franklin and Henderson.


That's not true. He did some damage with his GnP in round 2.


----------



## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

Freelancer said:


> That's not true. He did some damage with his GnP in round 2.


What GnP?. Don't you mean LnP?

He did some very light damage, nothing that would help him win the fight.


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Freelancer said:


> What makes you think that Serra won the first round?


The fact that he was the only person to land any real shots?


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> The fact that he was the only person to land any real shots?


Oh you mean the headbutt and the illegal punch? How about the fact that he got taken down and controlled?


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

The Negation I ussually think you know what your talking about but damn man, this isnt Japan nad those submission attempts dont carry that much weight and neither does the "damage" Serra did in the first round with a head butt, what does carry weight in under the rule in use by the UFC is maintainint the dominant position which Hughes was in for virtually the entire fight, I think 1st round could go either way the inadvertent head butt makes for scoring difficulties because Im not sure how much weight should be held by the strikes directly after. 2nd roud was a complete domination by Hughes with practically zero offense from Serra. 3rd round was again almost all Hughes the rush of submission attempts in the last 3 minutes of the fight didnt do that much, even when was attempting them Hughes was in dominant position so he was collecting more points for defending the sub and maintaining top position than Serra for attempting them.


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Freelancer said:


> Oh you mean the headbutt and the illegal punch? How about the fact that he got taken down and controlled?


Lol at illegal punch. Punches go astray all the time in the standup. Did Lesnar never beat Couture? Did Silva never beat Jardine?

Serra then hit Hughes about two dozen times and defended two takedowns. He got taken down, hughes took his back and he easily escaped. He was on the ground for less thana minute.

If you think Hughes took that round, you don't know anythign about MMA.


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> Lol at illegal punch. Punches go astray all the time in the standup. Did Lesnar never beat Couture? Did Silva never beat Jardine?
> 
> Serra then hit Hughes about two dozen times and defended two takedowns. He got taken down, hughes took his back and he easily escaped. He was on the ground for less thana minute.
> 
> If you think Hughes took that round, you don't know anythign about MMA.


He shouldn't have continued to strike Hughes after TWO illegal shots. 
I'll tell you what, I'm gonna go re watch the fight and try to see those "two dozen blows".


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Yes he should have. You don't stop until the referee intervenes. Even Hughes doens't have a problem with that(see his second Trigg fight).

Yeah, watch the fight again. Serra beat the crap out of Hughes for the majority of the first round. Yes it was set up by a clash of heads. The strike hitting the back/side of thehead is a non-issue, that happens all the time.


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> Yes he should have. You don't stop until the referee intervenes. Even Hughes doens't have a problem with that(see his second Trigg fight).
> 
> Yeah, watch the fight again. Serra beat the crap out of Hughes for the majority of the first round. Yes it was set up by a clash of heads. The strike hitting the back/side of thehead is a non-issue, that happens all the time.


Ok I've rewatched the fight. 
In the first round, illegal blows aside, serra landed dozen blows including knees in the clinch, and of those dozen, only one actually hurt hughes, other did almost no damage.
On the other hand hughes took him down, took his back and landed about 6 blows without causing damage. Serra reversed the position and they stood up. In fact it wasn't even a true reversal cos he didn't put Hughes in a disadvantageous position, they both just stood up.
Summa summarum I think the takedown and taking one's back deserves more points than one shot and a reversal. AT BEST the round could be ruled a draw.


----------



## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

*Anyone feel like Serra was ROBBED!? lol*

Or maybe its jus cause I hate Matt Hughes.. He is a dick ya know.. If ya hadnt been told so.. But honestly I felt the fight could have gone either way and for a unam it was a railroading for Serra. 

Granted the headbutt can not be taken in to consideration . BUT it shouldnt cancel out the whole damn rd for Serra which I thought he won. Then the second was all Matt trying to get his hump on.. Followed by more in the third but a scramble at the end by Serra.. Honestly I think Serra scramble and action at the end of the third was worth more then both of the last to rds of action by hughes lol..


----------



## DKent (May 16, 2009)

I thought Serra won


----------



## Buckingham (Apr 8, 2007)

Serra was more "impressive" but I thought Hughes won. Serra can walk away feeling better tho


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Bullshit.

Serra spent the majority of that round being the aggressor, he landed far more shots, stuffed two takedowns to the one Hughes got and reversed him. Of course it was a reversal, Serra brought the fight back to where he wanted it, on the feet.

Hughes got a takedown and took is back for a minute. Thats it. There is now way he should have been given that round.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Serra lost, like it or not the way fights are scored being in the top dominant position carries alot of weight and since Hughes maintained it well he won its simple and not the least bit controversial IMO.


----------



## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

Tough one for me to call. Thats why im not a judge


----------



## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Serra lost, like it or not the way fights are scored being in the top dominant position carries alot of weight and since Hughes maintained it well he won its simple and not the least bit controversial IMO.


Yes in the ufc as long as u can take a guy down and lay on him u win.. I know this.. I still dont c where they got a unam out of the who deal of all things.


----------



## xbrokenshieldx (Mar 5, 2007)

Really tough one to judge. Hughes controlled most of the fight from the top position. However, Serra did more damage throughout the fight. Serra hurt him (illegal or not, was better on the feet, did more when he was on his back than Hughes did from the top and did more from the top when he had that position.

In summary, it is just how you judge the fight. Is it based on who is controlling the fight or who is doing the damage.


----------



## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Hughes won the second on third rounds, no question. Serra was impressive though, I wouldn't mind seeing 2 more rounds of that fight.


----------



## kgilstrap (Dec 3, 2006)

Serra one the first round, but I felt that was mainly due ot the accidental head bump on the chin of Hughes. Hughes clearly dictated the 2nd and 3rd rounds, you could see the punishment on serra's face between the rounds and after the fight...I'm sure his face and body is sore this morning, as is Hughes chin.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

In the UFC Control>Damage and if your on top your considered in control, dont matter if your in Demian Maia's guard the guy on bottom aint getting the points.


----------



## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

xbrokenshieldx said:


> Really tough one to judge. Hughes controlled most of the fight from the top position. However, Serra did more damage throughout the fight. Serra hurt him (illegal or not, was better on the feet, did more when he was on his back than Hughes did from the top and did more from the top when he had that position.
> 
> In summary, it is just how you judge the fight. Is it based on who is controlling the fight or who is doing the damage.


Thats the deal.. I always tend to favor the fighter thats actually trying to make a effort to finish a fight any way possible. And to me Serra displayed that alot more then Hughes last night.


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

No way in hell Hughes won the first, third was a bit of a tossup but I think it;s clear Serra should have won for being more active.


----------



## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

Iuanes said:


> Hughes won the second on third rounds, no question. Serra was impressive though, I wouldn't mind seeing 2 more rounds of that fight.


I agree with the 2 more rounds ..


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

For those who think Hughes was just laying on Serra, watch the fight again. He landed good clean blows and controlled him, especially in the second round.


----------



## NGen2010 (Jun 3, 2008)

*Look at the face*

Serra looked worse off then Hughes. I don't think Serra landed anything after that headbutt. He had some scoring in the first when Hughes was hurt after the headbutt and the takedown in the third. What else was there?

Didn't Hughes have takedowns in every round? Didn't he land more clean blows while on top of Serra. Again look at Serra's face v. Hughes' after the fight. Plus the shots to the kidney. 

I thought Serra took way too long while on his back - he let Hughes stay on him and really made no effort to get him off. Instead he acted like it was no big deal - we'll it was from a scoring standpoint.

They know of the UFC scoring works and if Serra thought he was winning while on his back for 2/3 of the fight, then shame on him. We all know he has more KO power than Hughes, but he never took advantage.

Fans are funny and see things (or want to see things) a certain way. Happens in every sport and every event. 

I just rewatched the fight and I don't see how anyone (other than people that hate Hughes) can saw Serra won. Sorry, I just don't see it.


----------



## NGen2010 (Jun 3, 2008)

TheNegation said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> Serra spent the majority of that round being the aggressor, he landed far more shots, stuffed two takedowns to the one Hughes got and reversed him. Of course it was a reversal, Serra brought the fight back to where he wanted it, on the feet.
> 
> Hughes got a takedown and took is back for a minute. Thats it. There is now way he should have been given that round.


You blinded by love or hate? or both? :sarcastic12:


----------



## NGen2010 (Jun 3, 2008)

ZENKI1 said:


> Yes in the ufc as long as u can take a guy down and lay on him u win.. I know this.. I still dont c where they got a unam out of the who deal of all things.


If all three judges score for one fighter over the other, then its a "unanimous" decision. 

Unanimous = with all members (the judges) in agreement with each other.

That help? Pretty simple really.


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Freelancer said:


> For those who think Hughes was just laying on Serra, watch the fight again. He landed good clean blows and controlled him, especially in the second round.


*Only* in the second. In the first he took Serras back immediately and was then quickly reversed, and in the third he was completely shut down and mounted no offense.

1st and second won by Serra, second very decisively by Hughes. Two to one, nevermind how decisive the second round was.


----------



## Tepang (Sep 17, 2008)

Ask anyone that knows anything about MMA. The fight went

1st round: Serra, and the little headbutt is a lame excuse. Hughes just has horrible standup.

2nd round: Hughes by dominating lay n pray

3rd round: Serra. The round was close until the last 30 seconds or so what serra stuffed that take down and gave him a beat down.


Face it, the underdog whooped hughes. Hughes is on his way out anyways.


----------



## Chousakan (Apr 20, 2008)

There should of been another stand up in the fight where Serra forced the ground game to a stalemate.

No one won the fight and I believe it should of ended in a draw(a fitting result IMO) and probably would have if there was a standup to let Serra score some points on the feet. 

Both men seemed to feel humbled after the fight, they knew they fought it out to a stalemate, it's just a shame someone won the fight.

As a fan of both fighters I mean no disrespect if any is conveyed in my points.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Im completely mind boggled by the fact people can try to claim Serra won, I mean come on people have you never watched MMA, it isnt Japan under the the Japanese scoring system you could probably award the fight to Serra but under the American system it is absolutly Hughes fight and that is completly undebatable I mean the only round you could possibly score for Serra is the first and that is debatable as to how to score the action directly following the head butt.


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

Chousakan said:


> There should of been another stand up in the fight where Serra forced the ground game to a stalemate.
> 
> No one won the fight and I believe it should of ended in a draw(a fitting result IMO) and probably would have if there was a standup to let Serra score some points on the feet.
> 
> ...


I could agree with a draw, but Matt Serra definitely didn't do enough to win the fight.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

No draw, I dont care how many submission attempts you throw you cant win a decision from your back in North America, its just the way the scoring system works, maybe its flawed but that doesnt change anything it is what it is and Serra lost. You can say Hughes did nothing and that is fairly accurate but he did enough to stay active and avoid a stand up which is basically what Serra was working to obtain. Hughes was in the dominant position, this fight boiled down to that and people need to stop looking at it as who they think did more and look at instead based on the judging criteria set out for UFC fights which heavily weighs positioning above almost everything.


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Im completely mind boggled by the fact people can try to claim Serra won, I mean come on people have you never watched MMA, it isnt Japan under the the Japanese scoring system you could probably award the fight to Serra but under the American system it is absolutly Hughes fight and that is completly undebatable I mean the only round you could possibly score for Serra is the first and that is debatable as to how to score the action directly following the head butt.


You score it the way you would normal action.


And Serra won the third. He completely nullified Hughs on the ground, yet when he got on top of Hughes he was able to attack. Other thna that it was 1 takedown each. How can you score a round like that for Hughes?


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Toxic said:


> No draw, I dont care how many submission attempts you throw you cant win a decision from your back in North America, its just the way the scoring system works, maybe its flawed but that doesnt change anything it is what it is and Serra lost. You can say Hughes did nothing and that is fairly accurate but he did enough to stay active and avoid a stand up which is basically what Serra was working to obtain. Hughes was in the dominant position, this fight boiled down to that and people need to stop looking at it as who they think did more and look at instead based on the judging criteria set out for UFC fights which heavily weighs positioning above almost everything.



This is bullshit. The problem with the scoring system is that it is not specific, in itself or to the sport. The criteria for scoring are way too general.

Also, I do believe they put a large amount of stock in "aggressivness".


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

Tepang said:


> Ask anyone that knows anything about MMA. The fight went
> 
> 1st round: Serra, and the little headbutt is a lame excuse. Hughes just has horrible standup.
> 
> ...


I think you have to face this: the underdog lost a unanimous decision.


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Both the rounds Serra won were close but he clearly won them, whereas Hughes dominated the second. Under Japanese scoring, Hughes could have won, under round by round there is no way a Hughes victory makes sense.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

He spent the majority of the 3rd smothering Serra, you think because Serra got on top for under a minute at the end he won? Come on.


----------



## Chousakan (Apr 20, 2008)

Aye Hughes won, he was clearly dominant for longer in rounds 2 and 3 but I believe he was allowed to be by the ref at one point when Serra had shut things down.

Do I think Serra would of won with another stand up? No freakin way, he didn't finish Hughes in the first when Hughes was basically out on his feet but I believe Serra could of forced the draw as Hughes was very tired towards the end of the round when the stand up should of come and I don't think another TD was in him at that point.

Even without the draw it was a grudge match that ended the right way, both men humbled and respectful of the others abilities with no trash talking.

I don't want to take anything away from Hughes(and I don't understand why Serra hates him, I like the guy), he did what he does and if some people don't like it they are watching the wrong sport, but I still think the fight ended with the wrong decision by having a winner, no fault of the judges though.


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Toxic said:


> He spent the majority of the 3rd smothering Serra, you think because Serra got on top for under a minute at the end he won? Come on.


Smothering Serra? He got a takedown and was then completely shut down. He wasn't "smothering" Serra, Serra just made it impossible for him to attack properly and forced a stand up. Those aren't points for Hughes, if anything they would be for Serra. It's one thing to score a fight for someone due to having a dominant position, but when they are literally stopped from doing anyhting like that being on top doesn't mean a damn thing.


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think Serra won the third round but lost the first two. The fact is Matt Hughes won the fight according to 3 judges, and all our talk won't change that.


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

It's still retarded to give a round to someone based on one takedown when their oppoenent was more aggressive, landed more shots, defended two takedowns and reversed a position.
I don't expect our talk to change anyhting, but you are wrong and thinking Hughes won that round in particular is nuts.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> Smothering Serra? He got a takedown and was then completely shut down. He wasn't "smothering" Serra, Serra just made it impossible for him to attack properly and forced a stand up. Those aren't points for Hughes, if anything they would be for Serra. It's one thing to score a fight for someone due to having a dominant position, but when they are literally stopped from doing anyhting like that being on top doesn't mean a damn thing.


Serra doesnt get points for shutting Hughes down thats considered defensive, he didnt improve postition or attempt to gain the dominant position, those points are Hughes for getting the TD and maintaining top position which are considered offensive actions.


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> It's still retarded to give a round to someone based on one takedown when their oppoenent was more aggressive, landed more shots, defended two takedowns and reversed a position.
> I don't expect our talk to change anyhting, but you are wrong and thinking Hughes won that round in particular is nuts.


You don't get points for defending takedowns.
And that wasn't a reversal, it would have been if Serra ended on top of Hughes, instead they both just stood up. And standing up is an equal position when you are a judge.
Plus Hughes took Serra's back. Taking one's back gives you 4 points in adcc, why do you think it amounts to nothing in MMA?


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Since when don't you get points for defending takedowns?

Since when is sitting in someones guard considered offensive? You get points for that, eh?


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

It is really just another example of the disrespect jitz gets from mma judges and how badly they need to remove octagon control from the criteria since judges are apparently too stupid to recognize the nuances of grappling. Hughes did no damage in the third Serra threatened with a number of submission attempts from the bottom and did more damage from the top from striking. Saying Hughes should win for laying ontop of Serra not doing damage is equivalent to saying Sherk should win for walking forward and holding the center of the octagon.


----------



## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Toxic said:


> No draw, I dont care how many submission attempts you throw you cant win a decision from your back in North America, its just the way the scoring system works, maybe its flawed but that doesnt change anything it is what it is and Serra lost. You can say Hughes did nothing and that is fairly accurate but he did enough to stay active and avoid a stand up which is basically what Serra was working to obtain. Hughes was in the dominant position, this fight boiled down to that and people need to stop looking at it as who they think did more and look at instead based on the judging criteria set out for UFC fights which heavily weighs positioning above almost everything.


Your right but seeing a person damaged after the fight you start to see things differently especially when you got no replay


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> Since when don't you get points for defending takedowns?
> 
> Since when is sitting in someones guard considered offensive? You get points for that, eh?


You don't get points for TDD because you don't improve your position in any way, your just defending. That would be like giving points to the boxer for covering up and defending from strikes.
Being on top in someone's guard is a dominant position in MMA. If you don't reverse to a dominant position then it's not a reversal.


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

TDD is outwrestling someone, not at all like just covering up. 

Being in someones guard doesn't get you point on it's own.


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> TDD is outwrestling someone, not at all like just covering up.
> 
> Being in someones guard doesn't get you point on it's own.


1.Machida's elusiveness isn't just covering up, but he doesn't get points for it.

2.Being in dominant position itself doesn't get you points. However, PASSING or REVERSING to one gets you points.


----------



## llamabob (Dec 30, 2007)

I don't get how people are crying over this fight. Was it the most exciting fight? No. Not every fight is going to be a striking match. Why would Hughes strike when he knows Serra is the dominant striker? That's just ignorance. It's also not like Hughes didn't broadcast his intentions, he was going to wrestle. Atleast he set up his shots and didn't flop on his back like Leites and hope it went to the ground. Serra had chances to strike, and he didn't get anything but a head butt. In round 1 all Serra had WAS the head butt, and he still didn't finish it. Matt took 1 and obviously 2. In 3 they each had a take down but Matt had way more control time. You can't take someone down int he last 45 seconds and think you won the round. And most of all, Matt was always trying to advance position and strike, and got a couple of decent shots off. Serra made a few poor attempts at submissions but got controlled bad. His BJJ was pretty lack luster here.

Not the most exciting fight but Hughes won hands down. People just hate Hughes and wanted him to blindly strike with Serra and get knocked out.


----------



## Karim Kage (May 24, 2009)

NastyNinja said:


> I think Matt will take this easy, Matt will use a move nobody has seen Matt do, Watch out Matt is going to get his belt back by doing it Matts way.


matt definitely took this one by storm


----------



## NGen2010 (Jun 3, 2008)

TheNegation said:


> Both the rounds Serra won were close but he clearly won them, whereas Hughes dominated the second. Under Japanese scoring, Hughes could have won, under round by round there is no way a Hughes victory makes sense.


it's your jaded opinion that Serra won 2 of the 3 rounds. Last I checked you didn't have a say in the actual outcome. Get over it. Serra lost. Based on his track record, he'll probably be ready for another fight in 2011.


----------



## NGen2010 (Jun 3, 2008)

Freelancer said:


> I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think Serra won the third round but lost the first two. The fact is Matt Hughes won the fight according to 3 judges, and all our talk won't change that.


well said.


----------



## kay_o_ken (Jan 26, 2009)

id say hughes won to, it sucks though i really wanted serra to


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> Since when don't you get points for defending takedowns?
> 
> Since when is sitting in someones guard considered offensive? You get points for that, eh?


 You prevent your opponent from scoring points but its the same as defending a submission although its taken into consideration defending a takedowns effect on the score cards is neglegible.

You get more points for sitting in somebodies guard than having somebody sit in yours. Face it man, it may be another example of how flawed the current scoring system is and you may even feel Serra won the fight but how you cant admit that the way the current scoring system woks you have to give Hughes the W is mind boggling.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

To be honest, I thougt this fight played out how I imagined Sherk v. Edgar.


----------

