# Boxer Zab Judah: "Anyone can be a MMA fighter, no skill needed"



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

> God knows if there is anyone who thinks there is no need for some sort of pointless "MMA vs. boxing" rivalry, it's me. I love both sports deeply for their various charms, but it is interesting to me to hear the thoughts of fighters from both sports on the other. Even if it's only out of a strange sense of curiosity.
> 
> So when our friends at FightHub caught up with Zab Judah and asked for his thoughts on MMA, I checked out the video:
> 
> ...


*Source: BloodyElbow.com*


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Thanks for sharing, but I'm not even going to waste my time with the ignorance.

If all boxers can do to stay relevant is knock or belittle MMA, then best of luck. They'll need it.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

*Moved* - Didn't realize I posted it in the UFC section, my bad


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Not going to bother but, if the likes of Manny Pacquiao appreciate the skills you need to become a great MMA fighter, a guy named Zab Judah has no say in it.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Well I didn't take him seriously either, but the last video is hilarious... Greatest knockdown in the history of ever


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

That knockdown always cracks me up:laugh:

Reminds me of this for some reason.






As far as the skill debate I look at boxing as sort of like baseball. If you constantly practice, practice, practice, you can become a good baseball player. But if you are going to be a good football or basketball player you will have to have some God given ability. 

Height, strength, speed, and general athleticism are not things that you can improve with practice and that's why I couldn't give a shit about boxing or baseball. Some of the crappiest athletes I went to school with would be decent baseballers but couldn't break a tackle, intercept a pass, or light someone up on defense.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Boxing is a great sport, but mma is better. It's the sweet science of fighting, not punching.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

RustyRenegade said:


> That knockdown always cracks me up:laugh:
> 
> Reminds me of this for some reason.
> 
> ...


That's ******* nonsense. Baseball requires a TREMENDOUS amount of natural talent. Are you kidding me? Secondly, I'm literally going to blow a fuse if any one single more ******* person acts like football is the end all be all to athleticism and talent.

Some gifts translates better to other sports. Jon Jones for example is an obvious example of a fantastic athlete, insane flexibility, great balance length and functional strength. Yet he doesn't have good running speed and can't jump so was bad at football and basketball. Clearly a bad athlete though AMIRITE? No.


Baseball requires speed, explosiveness, strength and the most coordination you'll probably ever have to require in any single sport.

The fact that you know some guys who were decent in baseball and bad at football means **** all....I can name examples of dudes that were good football players but can't throw a baseball and make it to the cut-off man from the outfield....

Not to mention baseball generally requires good size for all but a few positions, you aren't going to see a ton of 5'8 dudes in the majors. And for pitchers, forget about it...these dudes are as big as any NFL player height wise.

Secondly, I have no idea why the HELL you'd make the comparison of BOXING of all things to a sport where it didn't take a lot of natural talent. Boxing takes more natural talent than MMA, and by quite a margin. The speed of hand and reflexes these guys have are way beyond that of what MMA is currently at. Not to mention physcial toughness, conditioning(boxing matches are much longer) foot speed, etc.

The thing is though, Zab's deluded. He says anyone can be an MMA fighter because all it takes is brutality....well then yeah Zab couldn't be an MMA fighter then.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

I bet you he wishes Amir Khan and Mayweather did MMA, oh and i'd like to this clown pull off any submission .


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## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

The only reason this video makes me a sad panda is because the kid is so young. If he was some old guy in his 80s I'd say he just doesn't know any better, but it's disappointing to see comments like this from a young kid.

I'd like to see him get into MMA with zero wrestling/BJJ experience and try to pop somebody's arm off (vs somebody who has trained wrestling/BJJ). He'd be the one tapping. Not sure how you can say submission wrestling/BJJ isn't a skill. Just the same way that boxing is a skill.

What I don't understand is why there is still a rift between boxing and MMA. They are two separate sports. If a young kid wants to get into boxing and not MMA -- good for him. There is the Olympic stage to compete at, and purses are 10x those in MMA at the top-level, and there is still a very good professional boxing stage to compete at. Also, when you are able to focus your efforts in 1 discipline there is the _potential_ to be leagues ahead of those who are required to train in 4-5 disciplines. I have nothing against a young guy that wants to devote himself to one discipline, weather it's boxing, kick-boxing, wrestling, etc. As mentioned, boxing still has a very good professional outlet -- MMA's rise in popularity was greatly in part because people of the "other" disciplines (wrestling, BJJ, kickboxing, etc) didn't have much of a professional stage in North America.

I just don't understand this need to discredit each other's sport.

Like what you like -- why can't people just leave it at that?


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## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

Roflcopter said:


> That's ******* nonsense. Baseball requires a TREMENDOUS amount of natural talent. Are you kidding me? Secondly, I'm literally going to blow a fuse if any one single more ******* person acts like football is the end all be all to athleticism and talent.
> 
> Some gifts translates better to other sports. Jon Jones for example is an obvious example of a fantastic athlete, insane flexibility, great balance length and functional strength. Yet he doesn't have good running speed and can't jump so was bad at football and basketball. Clearly a bad athlete though AMIRITE? No.
> 
> ...


Agreed. Especially about some gifts translating better to certain sports.

Many people say that hitting a 90+mph fastball is one of the most difficult things to do in any sport. You have to have great hand/eye, and the speed/strength to get the bat around in time, etc. The reaction time from mound to plate on a 90mph fastball is under 0.5 seconds...

If you put the effort into anything I think you can succeed. Depending on your given strengths/weakness, you may have to put more or less work in than others, but if the desire is there are you have the right people around you there's no reason you can't succeed.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

UFC_OWNS said:


> I bet you he wishes Amir Khan and Mayweather did MMA, oh and i'd like to this clown pull off any submission .


...Good point. I was just gonna say, I think Zab's ego is bruised from getting finished by a body shot ala Amir Kahn. I respect Jab as a world class boxer but he needs to spout his mouth to James Toney about fighting in MMA. Toney realized ( quickly) how hard it is to compete in MMA. Boxing is a technical stand-up fight with the hands. MMA is many different disciplines rolled into one. The day Zab jumps into the Octagon and displays some great TDD, then I'll give him some credit. For now-- he's just another Mayweather motormouth. Gee- I thought with them watching Toney get takendown, beat up, and choked out by Randy would help would shed some light. Guess not...


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> That's ******* nonsense. Baseball requires a TREMENDOUS amount of natural talent. Are you kidding me? Secondly, I'm literally going to blow a fuse if any one single more ******* person acts like football is the end all be all to athleticism and talent.
> 
> Some gifts translates better to other sports. Jon Jones for example is an obvious example of a fantastic athlete, insane flexibility, great balance length and functional strength. Yet he doesn't have good running speed and can't jump so was bad at football and basketball. Clearly a bad athlete though AMIRITE? No.
> 
> ...


I didn't realize you were only good at baseball or I would have worded it differently Copter:laugh:

I'm not saying that there aren't great athletes that play baseball, I'm saying that unathletic people can become great at it. 

I could list all the 5'10 fatties that couldn't run a mile that are great baseballers but you already know their names. The greatest athletes besides track and field imo are professional basketball players. Football has great athletes but not like the NBA.

As far as Jones not being good at neither I'd bet that would be more because of him not growing into his body at a young age and being lanky and awkward.

The hand and foot speed you mention is taught over and over and over again is why they become good at it. Why wouldn't they? That's all they do. As for the ducking and weaving that's more muscle memory than natural talent.

MMA fighters are better conditioned than boxers as well. Standing there punching and trying to throw someones weight around are two very different things. Physical toughness? Boxers spend more time arguing over purse percentage and rematching a fighter they've already beaten twice than they do seeking out the toughest opponents to face.

In closing, if you can name a MLB player that is a better athlete than the best athletes to ever play pro baseball, Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders I might reconsider my position but I doubt that happens:hug:


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Baseball sucks. It's boring as hell.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Baseball = stand in the field for 95% of the game. Anyone can hone throwing/catching skills. I agree 100% with Rusty.


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

M.Jordan the greatest basketball player to ever live... Sucked shit at Baseball... Exactly.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Exactly, to be good at Baseball you can have a beer belly (proven by a few ). As long as you train the skills needed to throw/catch/hit. If MJ played Baseball from a kid on up, he woulda been good. If _insertnamehere_ tried Basketball instead of Baseball, he woulda stopped after highschool because he couldn't dunk xD


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

RustyRenegade said:


> I didn't realize you were only good at baseball or I would have worded it differently Copter:laugh:
> 
> I'm not saying that there aren't great athletes that play baseball, I'm saying that unathletic people can become great at it.
> *
> ...


No I don't. Please enlighten me.

This is so subjective it's ridiculous and for you to even say so is ridiculous.

As I said before, there are tons of guys that aren't great athletes in both the NBA or the NFL.

You think ******* Robert Tractor Traylor(RIP) or a guy like DeJuan Blair is a great athlete. Or even a HOF guy like Kevin McHale...Reggie Miller. All mediocre athletes. There's tons of dudes that are in awful shape but are really tall and lumber around and do nothing, there's tons of medium height guys in good shape that can shoot the ball. 

The only super stellar athletes are the point guards. Period. But this is again, a complete fallacy and showing your ignorance, because the same can be said about baseball. I dare you to try to find one Center fielder or Short Stop or second basemen that isn't athletic. I'll wait.


As for the NFL, half the field is filled with barely in shape fat guys who do nothing but push and pull things and have no other talents. I saw Jared Allen try to play other positions in one of the special thing, guy's a great athlete in terms of applying his athletic gifts, he's big, agile and has a great motor....he however, can't catch, can't throw a football more than 10 yards and can't jump.
And then there's the kickers and punters......

No, he still can't jump, and I fail to see how being able to catch a football is due to being lanky. That's just bad hand-eye...which is fairly important for baseball, which he said was another sport he sucked at.


You can't teach speed. That's Athletics 101. 

No one in MMA will ever touch Roy Jones Jr, or even a Manny Pacquiao or Floyd Mayweather in quickness of hand....they are one in a billion.


Hell no, half the MMA fighters can barely go 10 minutes without getting tired. Theres a couple of dudes in MMA that can do 25 minutes comfortably and the rest are pretty mediocre. Look at the ME of last Sat ffs. Both dude's gassed in the 2nd round. And Hendo gassed while throwing punches. Boxers train for 36 minutes and most of the time go the distance....and not to mention boxing is so much more wearing on the legs than MMA for a myriad of reasons...which is generally why older athletes are much more successful in MMA than boxing.

Those guys were like four sport athletes...that's ridiculous. Deion Sanders is probably the greatest football player of all time and Bo Jackson was a phenom as well. A pretty ridiculous standard. Those guys easily could've been full time pro baseball players and the same statement would've applied.




box said:


> Exactly, to be good at Baseball you can have a beer belly (proven by a few ). As long as you train the skills needed to throw/catch/hit. If MJ played Baseball from a kid on up, he woulda been good. If _insertnamehere_ tried Basketball instead of Baseball, he woulda stopped after highschool because he couldn't dunk xD



Yeah too bad half of the 265lb division is hideously fat and out of shape...and unlike those rare sluggers who do nothing but hit the ball and don't play the field and therefore don't command as much money, they aren't actually skilled.

And MJ did play baseball as a kid, his dad got him into baseball before he got into basketball, he just wasn't that good at it.

Also nice fallacy, if you train any set of skills you can hopefully be competent in any sport....but it seems you've never even played it based on the astounding ignorance of your post.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> No I don't. Please enlighten me.
> 
> This is so subjective it's ridiculous and for you to even say so is ridiculous.
> 
> ...


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Intermission said:


> M.Jordan the greatest basketball player to ever live... Sucked shit at Baseball... Exactly.


This. Baseball may seem boring and it probably is but it's not an easy thing to pull off. Any slob in the street would be a pro baller if it was.


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## browncow (Jun 14, 2008)

*James Toney practically fell over as soon as Randy TOUCHED his leg!*



Roflcopter said:


> As I said before, there are tons of guys that aren't great athletes in both the NBA or the NFL.
> 
> I dare you to try to find one Center fielder or Short Stop or second basemen that isn't athletic. I'll wait.


Agree about the NBA and NFL.

But there's a reason baseball's called America's "national passtime" instead of its' national sport. It looks like a sped-up game of CRICKET without the tea breaks. The highlights are still fun, though.



Roflcopter said:


> You can't teach speed. That's Athletics 101.
> 
> No one in MMA will ever touch Roy Jones Jr, or even a Manny Pacquiao or Floyd Mayweather in quickness of hand....they are one in a billion.


Then let's hope "the next one" steps into an MMA gym instead of a boxing gym when he's five-years-old.



Roflcopter said:


> Hell no, half the MMA fighters can barely go 10 minutes without getting tired. Theres a couple of dudes in MMA that can do 25 minutes comfortably and the rest are pretty mediocre. Look at the ME of last Sat ffs. Both dude's gassed in the 2nd round. And Hendo gassed while throwing punches.


Perhaps MMA is more grueling than a lot of other sports. MARATHON RUNNING requires a lot of endurance. Don't mean I'm gonna start watching it.

You mean Hendo the Olympic wrestler, right? The guy throws every OUNCE of strength he has in every single punch. He doesn't pace himself the way a boxer would. He's not a world-class boxer and has no illusions of being one.

Last I checked, he's in his fooking FORTIES, man. He ain't no spring chicken when it comes to this sport... and he competed in athletics at a high level long before he ever set foot in a cage.



Roflcopter said:


> Boxers train for 36 minutes and most of the time go the distance....and not to mention boxing is so much more wearing on the legs than MMA for a myriad of reasons...which is generally why older athletes are much more successful in MMA than boxing.


Boxing is an Olympic sport and has evolved in such a way that the "killer instinct" is subdued compared to what it once was. The same can be said about MMA compared to the "early days", but a lot of it just has to do with increased popularity resulting in a larger potential talent pool being drawn into training for the sport.

Eating a few low kicks from Pat Barry or Thiago Alves looks like it might be "wearing on the legs". But that's something most boxers won't have to deal with. I get it.

Maybe MMA fighters can stay relevant at a higher level at an older age(than boxers) due to MMA being a much more multi-faceted sport. The more options you have at your disposal, the less likely you are to pay the price simply for a marked drop-off in speed, quickness, hand-eye coordination, etc.

A lot of this stuff is just apples-to-oranges. No need for ANYONE to get all butt-hurt about any of these "sport-vs-sport" comparisons.

I mean, GYMNASTS may be some of the most phenomenal athletes on earth... but you won't see a lot of people here hanging off their nuts(ewww!)

And, NO, I don't watch a lot of gymnastics, but I can appreciate that it involves more sheer athleticism than - say - PING PONG.


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## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

Never read the posts or watch the video but... lets see Judah stop a single leg and get GnP and see how skilled he is at getting out of that. MMA fighters can ALSO fight you at your own game and Box with you, but they are a fish outta water on the ground. Takes more skill then just being a 1 trick pony. I thought Boxers learned that lesson when James Toney got flatlined by Randy Couture... guess not.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

I've actually started to notice that a lot of my friends who box or kickbox are starting to show a lot more respect to the sport when they talk about it. I do think that, generally speaking, there is a lot more respect for the sport among the pure strikers, especially as they see K-1 guys fight MMA, or guys in boxing fail to translate their skills into MMA.

If guys want to show disrespect, that's on them. I'm past the point where I find it particularly annoying. I have heard a lot over the years; guys like Floyd Mayweather and other bigger names in boxing talk a lot of trash, much of it homophobic, all of it stupid. All of that is about par for the course. I have begun to see that much of it is just boxers feeling the need to be defensive of their own career and their own sport; it seems a silly way to go about it, but that is the tact that a lot have chosen.

The credibility of boxing is something that many believe has to be justified through history and not through the skill of the athletes. Folks like Judah get one thing (though only one thing) right, which is that if one is going to talk about the legitimacy of boxing, then it has to go back tot he skill of the athletes.

That said, marginalizing the skill of guys who are incredible athletes always offends those of us who do train. Someone saying Marcelinho isn't as great an athlete as Pacquiao, or Roger Gracie isn't as great an athlete as Wladimir Klitchko, those things are offensive and ignorant to someone who trains in grappling. Moreover, they betray a lot of ignorance of the hours that guys like Manny and Wladimir have put into developing their game, as well.

I used to think that the appropriate way to talk to my boxing friends was to explain why it is that boxing skills don't transition to MMA. I used to think that simply sitting them down in front of their friends (these conversations always seem to happen in front of a group of guys) and absolutely humiliating them with their lack of knowledge of both boxing and MMA and the skills entailed in (and neglected by) both was an appropriate way to *win* this conversation. It worked very well for me.

But now I think that it is more effective to approach it another way entirely. At this point I simply ask: "Do you know how to do an armbar?"

Some try, and can't figure it out. Some have a simple idea, but its always easy to escape. Then I pose the second question: "Does it take skill and patience and discipline to perfect the armbar, just as it does a left hook, or a bob?"

The answer has to be that it does. If you asked Zab Judah to perform an armbar, even on someone like me (far from a world class BJJ competitor) he would be lost. And that demonstration, as simple as it is, speaks volumes about the skill that mixed martial arts entails.


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