# Kizer Warns Silva He Will Not Be Welcome In Vegas With A Repeat Of UFC 148 Antics



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

> By Jamie McAllister
> Following Anderson Silva’s second round stoppage of Chael Sonnen at UFC 148 the Middleweight Champion has been receiving a lot of criticism.
> 
> At the start of the bout Silva was caught taking the Vaseline from his face and rubbing it on his chest and arms as well as being warned twice for grabbing Sonnen’s shorts. Also prior to the bout at the weigh-ins Silva struck Chael Sonnen with a shoulder strike.
> ...


source


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

oldfan said:


> source


Kizer is a joke, dude needs to start doing some damn work. How's is he gonna bring up some Bs like this and let the Pacman vs Bradley decision slide. Plus i saw Diaz doing some BS and nothing was said. 

I see worst shit in boxing and they don't do shit about any of it.


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## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

Hey Kizer, stop worrying about the next Anderson Silva fight. Im sure all the other Commissions jump at the chance to host an Anderson Silva fight, maybe you should also stop playing favourites, suspending and banning certain people you dont like. Where is King Mo when you need him? and figure out how Bradley won the fight again Pacquaio. And actually background check the judges and actually question them. But you dont want something coming out that stains an already tainted NSAC dont you?


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

For the first time in my life, I can't find fault with a thing Keith Kizer has said there...and it surprises me to type that!

Very 'out-of-character' weekend for Silva.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

LizaG said:


> For the first time in my life, I can't find fault with a thing Keith Kizer has said there...and it surprises me to type that!
> 
> Very 'out-of-character' weekend for Silva.


The thing I have with this is how do we know it was not all an act to see PPVs? See this is far more worst that what Silva did IMO, I don't ever remember any action taken. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQW2GZo0ts4

Here is a classic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiwTYKRmzVI


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

marcthegame said:


> The thing I have with this is how do we know it was not all an act to see PPVs? See this is far more worst that what Silva did IMO, I don't ever remember any action taken.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQW2GZo0ts4


Anderson never went as far as to strike someone at the weigh-ins to sell a PPV before. But the vaseline is a sore spot I'm sure for the commission, I just found the behaviour (real or not) to be against the behaviour we've seen all these years from Silva, tis what I mean


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

LizaG said:


> Anderson never went as far as to strike someone at the weigh-ins to sell a PPV before. But the vaseline is a sore spot I'm sure for the commission, I just found the behaviour (real or not) to be against the behaviour we've seen all these years from Silva, tis what I mean


That's true, but Silva is also unpredictable at times, Vitor was out of character, and I'm sure if he fights Munoz it will be heated also.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> That's true, but Silva is also unpredictable at times, Vitor was out of character, and I'm sure if he fights Munoz it will be heated also.


Why Munoz? Because he worked wrestling with the blackhouse guys for a little while?


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## AlexZ (Sep 14, 2007)

Kizer = MMA Nazi


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## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

Just to clarify because ive been reading reports of this on different sites and people have been getting the wrong idea. Basically Anderson is not now banned from fighting in Nevada, just that if he acts that way AGAIN, then he could be banned. And by act, they mean that shoulder strike during the weigh ins. For some reason only Kizer seems to pissed about that, Dana White knew stuff like that could happen, and just shrugged it off, because is the fight game, those things can happen, just mad at himself that it was virtually impossible to prevent. Sonnen himself didnt make a big deal and decided to not go any further and file legal action or something. So basically:

Dana White: Doesnet give a damn about the shoulder strike, says its part of the game.
Chael Sonnen: Doesent give a damn about the shoulder strike, says its part of the game.
Anderson Silva: Probably doesent care if he goes nuts again and isint allowed to fight in Nevada anymore.
Lorenzo Fertitta: Probably is counting all the money from the UFC 148 hype the shoulder strike created.
Keith Kizer: Gives a damn about the shoulder strike and is probably looking for attention.

Kizer seems to have two different stances (He likes it if its not on enough to be wiped off, but doesent like it if its on enough to be wiped off) on the alleged greasing, has no problem with the short holding and doesent see any cage grab attempt. Guy is a weird dude....


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> Why Munoz? Because he worked wrestling with the blackhouse guys for a little while?


There still friends to this day. He did help out Roger Gracie with his wrestling at blackhouse back in March.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

You guys know what i cant find any fault with this.

Everyone is trying to sweep all the stuff Anderson did under the rug or play it off as it was all Minor. But it all adds up and is pretty ridiculous. 

He isnt allowed to put Vaseline on his body from the face but he did. Lucky for us other people like Lorenzo and Ketih and Yves lavigne caught it and wiped it off. If they didnt catch it then Anderson would have fought with Vaseline on his body that he put there. He blatantly grabbed Chaels shorts even after he was warned not to. Keith has said that grabbing the fence to use for a knee strike is not allowed but its up to the ref to say something at that point. So really it all adds up and i cant blame Keith for saying something. Imagine if people start thinking "well if he the champion can do it then why cant i". It just sets a bad precedent for Nevada. Im not quiet sure how anyone can fault Kizer here.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

> “He was very honorable, perhaps more than he needed to be, towards Anderson.”


I guess Kizer never heard anything about the lead-up to the fight.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

See they have to clarify the rules some more, I know since the GSP incident only a cut man can apply Vaseline. However there is nothing that says a fighter can't wipe Vaseline from his face to other parts. Plus in the GSP ruling, GSP won because Kizer said they caught it and it was wiped off.

Also for everything else such as the rules it is enforce by the referee, so its over with. Everything was caught and dealt with by the ref, the vaseline, the grabbing of the shorts,etc.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

marcthegame said:


> See they have to clarify the rules some more, I know since the GSP incident only a cut man can apply Vaseline. However there is nothing that says a fighter can't wipe Vaseline from his face to other parts. Plus in the GSP ruling, GSP won because Kizer said they caught it and it was wiped off.
> 
> Also for everything else such as the rules it is enforce by the referee, so its over with. Everything was caught and dealt with by the ref, the vaseline, the grabbing of the shorts,etc.


But it says a fighter isnt allowed to put Vaseline or anything else on his body in the octagon or outside of the octagon. And it also says a cutman is the only person allowed to put Vaseline on the fighter as you already said.

Which pretty clearly means that you cant take vaseline from your face and apply it to your body. Common sense does have to be in play here which is never a good thing when creating rules.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

If Chael Sonnen did it, nothing would be said by officials.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> There still friends to this day. He did help out Roger Gracie with his wrestling at blackhouse back in March.


So why would there be bad blood if they fought?


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## SpidermanKick (Dec 30, 2010)

Everything he said is spot on, Anderson tries his greasing bullshit almost every fight. 

Just because he's a killer doesn't excuse his cheating b.s antics.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Life B Ez said:


> So why would there be bad blood if they fought?


Munoz helped Anderson prepare for the second Chael fight. 

But Anderson hates when friends accept fights against him. It makes him feel betrayed. Look back at the whole Vitor thing.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

funkasaurus said:


> If Chael Sonnen did it, nothing would be said by officials.


Oooooooook.....why?


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Munoz helped Anderson prepare for the second Chael fight.
> 
> But Anderson hates when friends accept fights against him. It makes him feel betrayed. Look back at the whole Vitor thing.


All that started and had been brewing a really long time, it wasn't like they were just training together and Vitor took the fight.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Life B Ez said:


> All that started and had been brewing a really long time, it wasn't like they were just training together and Vitor took the fight.


Yeah but Anderson had an interview saying that he felt Vitor was a traitor because he came and trained with him and then just left.

Look im not saying his comment about munoz and Silva having bad blood makes sense. I was posting what i THINK he ment with that comment. lol


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Yeah but Anderson had an interview saying that he felt Vitor was a traitor because he came and trained with him and then just left.
> 
> Look im not saying his comment about munoz and Silva having bad blood makes sense. I was posting what i THINK he ment with that comment. lol


I get it, that's what I was thinking. But I also think that Vitor and Munoz are very different situations.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Life B Ez said:


> I get it, that's what I was thinking. But I also think that Vitor and Munoz are very different situations.


Yeah i agree. I hardly think the only reason Anderson was pissed was because they trained together and now their fighting. Im sure there is alot more to it. Some that we know and alot that we dont.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Munoz helped Anderson prepare for the second Chael fight.
> 
> But Anderson hates when friends accept fights against him. It makes him feel betrayed. Look back at the whole Vitor thing.


He is a lot more understanding about that if they happen to already be in the same division he would just prefer he not have to fight his friends regardless. There was a lot to what happened with Vitor but the big issue was the same with Wandy and that is they used to train together and then they moved to the division that he was champion in to fight him. Anderson knew that Munoz was in the UFC middleweight division and he might eventually have to fight him when they started training together.

As for the original topic of the thread the NSAC is a joke and corrupt so I don't really give a shit what Keith Kizer has to say about anything. There are plenty of places in the world that the GOAT can sell out.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> But it says a fighter isnt allowed to put Vaseline or anything else on his body in the octagon or outside of the octagon. And it also says a cutman is the only person allowed to put Vaseline on the fighter as you already said.
> 
> Which pretty clearly means that you cant take vaseline from your face and apply it to your body. Common sense does have to be in play here which is never a good thing when creating rules.


Where are these rules!


Life B Ez said:


> So why would there be bad blood if they fought?


Silva has a rule/philosophy about fighting friends, Munoz knows that, and still wants to fight in the name of competition. He does have a long road before he gets a title shot, so the context of their relationship is subject to change.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

marcthegame said:


> Where are these rules!





> Due to the Penn-St. Pierre matter, the group discussed the application of any substance to the hair or body which could result in an advantage. Absolutely "no" body grease, gels, balms, lotions oils, or other substances may be applied to the hair, face or body. This includes the use of excessive amounts of water "dumped" on a contestant to make him/her slippery. *However, Vaseline may be applied solely to the facial area at cage side or ringside in the presence of an inspector, referee, or a person designated by the commission.* *Any contestant applying anything other than Vaseline in an approved fashion at the appropriate time could be penalized a point or subject to loss by disqualification.*


This is from their most recent bill on the matter which was in 2009.


He applied Vaseline on his body in a unapproved fashion. It was his responsibility to go to the referee or a designated person and ask him to remove excess Vaseline from his face IF there was some (This is where common sense comes in to play). Instead he took the matter in his own hands and wiped Vaseline on to his body (Which is not allowed since only the facial area is allowed)

And when it says "in a approved fashion" then that means it has to be approved. You cant use "Well it doesnt say i cant do it" as an excuse.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> This is from their most recent bill on the matter which was in 2009.
> 
> 
> He applied Vaseline on his body in a unapproved fashion. It was his responsibility to go to the referee or a designated person and ask him to remove excess Vaseline from his face IF there was some (This is where common sense comes in to play). Instead he took the matter in his own hands and wiped Vaseline on to his body (Which is not allowed since only the facial area is allowed)
> ...


The lights are broken and the law says that I can't J-Walk. I guess I'll just sit by the side of the road.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

funkasaurus said:


> The lights are broken and the law says that I can't J-Walk. I guess I'll just sit by the side of the road.


How is that AT ALL similar to this situation. As i STATED Anderson could have went to the referee and had some Vaseline removed from his face. He wasnt stuck having no other option other then rubbing it on his body. For **** sakes he could have rubbed it on his shorts atleast.

So think before you say stupid shit like that. Its irritating dealing with it. Especially when you think better then that of the poster.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

The vaseline was applied by the cutman and he moved it. I don't see anything there about moving vaseline that is about adding it. When the rule was created I only saw reference to it being about adding and handling vaseline. That rule was specifically created in response to grease gate which was a cornerman adding excess amounts of vaseline to parts of the body other than the face. The commissions know that Anderson does this for a lot of his fights. Why haven't they made public comments about it or told him to stop doing it?


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Thanks for the info sideway, however i don't think the vaseline should be a factor in this. Sonnen took him down and was on him for for the first round.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> The vaseline was applied by the cutman and he moved it. I don't see anything there about moving vaseline that is about adding it. When the rule was created I only saw reference to it being about adding and handling vaseline. That rule was specifically created in response to grease gate which was a cornerman adding excess amounts of vaseline to parts of the body other than the face. The commissions know that Anderson does this for a lot of his fights. Why haven't they made public comments about it or told him to stop doing it?


Moving vaseline from his face to his body is the SAME thing as adding it to his body. Thats where common sense comes into play. He is taking vaseline and adding it to his body. Whether it comes from the bottle, from his face, from the opponents face. Its illegal.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> Moving vaseline from his face to his body is the SAME thing as adding it to his body. Thats where common sense comes into play.


OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Sonnen would never whine about a thing after a fight. That's not his nature at all. It's one facet of Sonnens personality I adore. He always gives maximum props to his opponents after a fight. Except for the first Silva fight, but that was totally freaky. I'm sure Sonnen would rather lose like he did on saturday as opposed to the last moment groin suffocation.

Good man Chael. :hug: Don't give this Kizer twat the satisfaction of blowing his tiny horn.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> The vaseline was applied by the cutman and he moved it. I don't see anything there about moving vaseline that is about adding it. When the rule was created I only saw reference to it being about adding and handling vaseline. That rule was specifically created in response to grease gate which was a cornerman adding excess amounts of vaseline to parts of the body other than the face. The commissions know that Anderson does this for a lot of his fights. Why haven't they made public comments about it or told him to stop doing it?


And it says

Any contestant applying anything other than Vaseline in an approved fashion at the appropriate time could be penalized a point or subject to loss by disqualification.

Is taking Vaseline and applying it to your body Approved???? If not then its ILLEGAL.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Moving vaseline from his face to his body is the SAME thing as adding it to his body. Thats where common sense comes into play. He is taking vaseline and adding it to his body. Whether it comes from the bottle, from his face, from the opponents face. Its illegal.


Your "common sense" has nothing to do with regulations. Rules are put into place for specific purposes and the evidence we have suggests that what I am saying is what it covers. 

You avoided my question. Why is no one telling him to stop doing it or he could be disqualified? Why is no one who actually governs the sport saying this isn't allowed?


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> And it says
> 
> Any contestant applying anything other than Vaseline in an approved fashion at the appropriate time could be penalized a point or subject to loss by disqualification.
> 
> Is taking Vaseline and applying it to your body Approved???? If not then its ILLEGAL.


But he wasn't.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> Your "common sense" has nothing to do with regulations. Rules are put into place for specific purposes and the evidence we have suggests that what I am saying is what it covers.
> 
> You avoided my question. Why is no one telling him to stop doing it or he could be disqualified? Why is no one who actually governs the sport saying this isn't allowed?


Actually it has everything to do with the regulations. See my post above.

I just read an article where it says Lorenzo,Kizer and Yves ALL reacted to it. And thats why Anderson got cleaned off. You can find the quote in the Chael filing commission thread. I doubt we will see Anderson do it again and thats because now he knows its not allowed.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

funkasaurus said:


> But he wasn't.


You are correct he was not. Just like he was not penalized for anything else lmao. Which is where this reaction from the fans and other alike is stemming from.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> You are correct he was not. Just like he was not penalized for anything else lmao. Which is where this reaction from the fans and other alike is stemming from.


The rules don't say "You get DQed for this". It says that, in some circumstances, it can be penalized. This was not one of those circumstances.

And as someone posted in another thread. If Silva was really looking for a big advantage, why would he void the only reason he has the title right now, his BJJ?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

funkasaurus said:


> The rules don't say "You get DQed for this". It says that, in some circumstances, it can be penalized. This was not one of those circumstances.
> 
> And as someone posted in another thread. If Silva was really looking for a big advantage, why would he void the only reason he has the title right now, his BJJ?


Dude did i ever say i think he should have been DQ??? Iv been giving Kudos to Anderson all over the place and even insulted the guys filling a complaint to the commission. Dont assume things man.

Personally i think rubbing him down was enough. Now he knows it not allowed. If he does it again well then we got a problem.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Actually it has everything to do with the regulations. See my post above.
> 
> I just read an article where it says Lorenzo,Kizer and Yves ALL reacted to it. And thats why Anderson got cleaned off. You can find the quote in the Chael filing commission thread. I doubt we will see Anderson do it again and thats because now he knows its not allowed.


"(UFC executive) Lorenzo (Fertitta) came to me and said, 'Did you see that?' I said, 'Lorenzo, he does that every damn fight,'" Kizer said. "And Yves was ready for that and took care of it." 

No where does he say it is illegal. He also acknowledged that he has known for a long time that he does it yet they did nothing about it in the Belfort fight. Again why isn't he warning him not to do it. That quote leads me to believe he views it as exploitation of the rules not outright breaking them. The ref didn't even tell him to stop doing it he just let him finish and then wiped him down.

If Anderson took a tube of vaseline and started spreading it on his chest during the introductions I guarantee you the ref immediately stops him.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

> As for Silva rubbing Vaseline off his face and onto his body before the fight, Kizer said he noticed Silva has done that in the past but admitted this time it was "more blatant that we expected." He said UFC CEO Lorenzo Fertitta pointed it out to him before the fight and referee Yves Lavigne was quick to wipe off the middleweight champion before round one.


http://www.mmafighting.com/2012/7/9...-if-future-anderson-silva-fights-wont#3532284


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

funkasaurus said:


> The rules don't say "You get DQed for this". It says that, in some circumstances, it can be penalized. This was not one of those circumstances.
> 
> And as someone posted in another thread. If Silva was really looking for a big advantage, why would he void the only reason he has the title right now, his BJJ?


Here is the issue had he lost the first fight Sonnen would still not be champ. As he got busted for Roids, the contest would have been ruled a no contest and Silva would have remained champ.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> "(UFC executive) Lorenzo (Fertitta) came to me and said, 'Did you see that?' I said, 'Lorenzo, he does that every damn fight,'" Kizer said. "And Yves was ready for that and took care of it."
> 
> No where does he say it is illegal. He also acknowledged that he has known for a long time that he does it yet they did nothing about it in the Belfort fight. Again why isn't he warning him not to do it. That quote leads me to believe he views it as exploitation of the rules not outright breaking them. The ref didn't even tell him to stop doing it he just let him finish and then wiped him down.


Well the rules as i just showed you say a fighter is only allowed to deal with Vaseline in a approved Fashion. No where does it say its approved taking Vaseline from your face and putting it on your body.

And a hint is "They wiped him down". If what he did was LEGAL then there would have been no need to wipe him down. You dont wipe down a persons face because its legal to have Vaseline on the face. And you have the option to ask the ref to remove some Vaseline if you feel necessary.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

osmium said:


> "(UFC executive) Lorenzo (Fertitta) came to me and said, 'Did you see that?' I said, 'Lorenzo, he does that every damn fight,'" Kizer said. "And Yves was ready for that and took care of it."
> 
> No where does he say it is illegal. He also acknowledged that he has known for a long time that he does it yet they did nothing about it in the Belfort fight. Again why isn't he warning him not to do it. That quote leads me to believe he views it as exploitation of the rules not outright breaking them. The ref didn't even tell him to stop doing it he just let him finish and then wiped him down.
> 
> If Anderson took a tube of vaseline and started spreading it on his chest during the introductions I guarantee you the ref immediately stops him.


I don't think they enforce it because really its not a big deal. I know some people will freak out and say it is. But i have seen SIlva done it before and believe me it does not help him one bit. Plus if he's whipping it using his hands doesnt that put him at a disadvantage when he tries to grab people?


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Well the rules as i just showed you say a fighter is only allowed to deal with Vaseline in a approved Fashion. No where does it say its approved taking Vaseline from your face and putting it on your body.
> 
> And a hint is "They wiped him down". If what he did was LEGAL then there would have been no need to wipe him down. You dont wipe down a persons face because its legal to have Vaseline on the face. And you have the option to ask the ref to remove some Vaseline if you feel necessary.


Yet they didn't for the Belfort fight or any other fight. So that is obviously just at the referees discretion as to whether it matters.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> Dude did i ever say i think he should have been DQ??? Iv been giving Kudos to Anderson all over the place and even insulted the guys filling a complaint to the commission. Dont assume things man.
> 
> Personally i think rubbing him down was enough. Now he knows it not allowed. If he does it again well then we got a problem.


When did I say that you said that you thought he should have been DQed? :thumb02:


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

I looked into it and apparently Yves had the Leites fight and toweled him off in that one as well. So yeah this is just Yves is hyper vigilant about that whereas other refs apparently don't care.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> Yet they didn't for the Belfort fight or any other fight. So that is obviously just at the referees discretion as to whether it matters.


Just because they didnt notice it previously doesnt make it okay. Or because Kizer was too damn lazy to do his job. As evidence by his "We didnt think he would be that obvious". That doesnt make it okay.

Its not at the referees discretion. You are not allowed to put Vaseline on your body. As i clearly explained in my previous post.

There will NEVER be a fight where a guy puts Vaseline on his body and they notice and the ref says "Well its within the rules to put Vaseline on your body" and thats because its obviously not.

At the end of the day he was wiped down and thats all that matters. But to make it seem like what he did was "Legal" is ridiculous. 



funkasaurus said:


> When did I say that you said that you thought he should have been DQed? :thumb02:


Touche


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> So just because they didnt notice it previously doesnt make it okay. Or because Kizer was too damn lazy to do his job. As evidence by his "We didnt think he would be that obvious". That doesnt make it okay.
> 
> Its not at the referees discretion. You are not allowed to put Vaseline on your body. As i clearly explained in my previous post.
> 
> ...


Yeah I'm sure that no other ref ever noticed the like 15 second process of him removing vaseline from his eyebrows while they are standing there watching the fighters.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> I looked into it and apparently Yves had the Leites fight and toweled him off in that one as well. So yeah this is just Yves is hyper vigilant about that whereas other refs apparently don't care.


What you mean to say is "Where as other refs suck at their jobs". There is a sht load of things thats in the rules and Refs dont do anything about. Our refs suck and thats been a long known fact. They suck on all accounts.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> Yeah I'm sure that no other ref ever noticed the like 15 second process of him removing vaseline from his eyebrows while they are standing there watching the fighters.


I didnt notice it until like a fight or 2 ago. It wasnt till i noticed it that i was like "Wait a minute.. he does that every fight. Holy sht he is greasing his body every fight"

And as i pointed out above. Their laziness is no excuse. Anderson has been lucky getting away with it for as long as he has.

You wanna make a sig bet that it doesnt happen his next fight OR that he gets toweled down no matter who the ref is.
Il put the bet in my sig if ur interested. So we remember.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> Just because they didnt notice it previously doesnt make it okay. Or because Kizer was too damn lazy to do his job. As evidence by his "We didnt think he would be that obvious". That doesnt make it okay.
> 
> Its not at the referees discretion. You are not allowed to put Vaseline on your body. As i clearly explained in my previous post.
> 
> ...


It's not a set in stone rule. I think it's like when someone has too much on their face. The referee will wipe it and be like "Come on man, stop taking the piss". If someone rubs their face, which is easy to do with that stuff on it, and then wipes the grease off on their body, I don't think the referee will say anything.
If someone stars rubbing it off and putting it behind their legs and tactically under their ribs to an excessive degree, then the ref will wipe them down.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Question is Vaseline mandatory? If so, maybe Silva hates it on his face and wipes it off with no intention of greasing? Maybe he fights the shit uncomfortable?


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

marcthegame said:


> Question is Vaseline mandatory? If so, maybe Silva hates it on his face and wipes it off with no intention of greasing? Maybe he fights the shit uncomfortable?


It is and the real question here is whether they should be allowing him to remove it period because you are required to have it.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

funkasaurus said:


> It's not a set in stone rule. I think it's like when someone has too much on their face. The referee will wipe it and be like "Come on man, stop taking the piss". If someone rubs their face, which is easy to do with that stuff on it, and then wipes the grease off on their body, I don't think the referee will say anything.
> If someone stars rubbing it off and putting it behind their legs and tactically under their ribs to an excessive degree, then the ref will wipe them down.


I agree. I dont think if someone rubs their cheek and then their nipple that the ref is going to care. But when you are taking it literally off your face and putting it on your body... different story.



marcthegame said:


> Question is Vaseline mandatory? If so, maybe Silva hates it on his face and wipes it off with no intention of greasing? Maybe he fights the shit uncomfortable?


I think it is.

But he can rub it on his shorts if all he wants is to get rid of it. No one would say anything. He is also allowed to ask the ref to towel his face off. It would leave some behind but not enough to bother him (Same as him rubbing it on his body)



osmium said:


> It is and the real question here is whether they should be allowing him to remove it period because you are required to have it.


Yeah i was certainly thinking about that too. But i think they would look the other way aslong as he isnt spreading it on his body.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> I agree. I dont think if someone rubs their cheek and then their nipple that the ref is going to care. But when you are taking it literally off your face and putting it on your body... different story.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think the main reason you'll get resistance to your points is when this has been brought up. He goes this every fight. He does it against wrestlers, muay thai fighters, boxers. It's been put across like he was 'greasing' to gain an unfair advantage over Chael because he wasn't able to deal with his wrestling, which is not the case.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> I didnt notice it until like a fight or 2 ago. It wasnt till i noticed it that i was like "Wait a minute.. he does that every fight. Holy sht he is greasing his body every fight"
> 
> And as i pointed out above. Their laziness is no excuse. Anderson has been lucky getting away with it for as long as he has.
> 
> ...


Will that be because of public pressure from crazy people or because they think it matters? It isn't them being lazy it just flat out isn't important and is at their discretion. That shit gets all over both fighters in most fights why aren't they toweling off their bodies between rounds if it means so much.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

funkasaurus said:


> I think the main reason you'll get resistance to your points is when this has been brought up. He goes this every fight. He does it against wrestlers, muay thai fighters, boxers. It's been put across like he was 'greasing' to gain an unfair advantage over Chael because he wasn't able to deal with his wrestling, which is not the case.


Im not saying he does it for an unfair advantage or not. Quiet frankly i cant speak on that and unless you know Silva you probably cant either.
Im simply stating that its Legal which according to the rules written it is illegal. Which is why it got wiped off in the first place.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

I think we need an investigation into Chael applying vaseline to Andersons chest from the 8 second mark of the first round to the end of the first.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> I think it is.
> 
> But he can rub it on his shorts if all he wants is to get rid of it. No one would say anything. He is also allowed to ask the ref to towel his face off. It would leave some behind but not enough to bother him (Same as him rubbing it on his body)


See if he does rub it all on his shorts, then how does he get his hands clean afterwards?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> Will that be because of public pressure from crazy people or because they think it matters? It isn't them being lazy it just flat out isn't important and is at their discretion. That shit gets all over both fighters in most fights why aren't they toweling off their bodies between rounds if it means so much.


It will be because rubbing Vaseline on your body is not allowed. Now they will know to watch out for it and will wipe them off each and every time because those are the rules. You cannot put Vaseline on your body. Simple as that. It has nothing to do with at their discretion. If a guy is rubbing Vaseline on his body then they NEED to wipe him down. They cant choose not to do it because then its playing favorites. Rules are there for a reason.

And they wont towel it off between rounds because at that point its just the nature of the beast. Neither guy is taking Vaseline and rubbing it on their body. Its just a natural occurrence in the sport of fighting. Taking vaseline from your face and putting it on your body, isnt.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> Im not saying he does it for an unfair advantage or not. Quiet frankly i cant speak on that and unless you know Silva you probably cant either.
> Im simply stating that its Legal which according to the rules written it is illegal. Which is why it got wiped off in the first place.


I didnt mean that YOU are saying this, but it's only really come up since this fight. Of all of Silva's fights, it comes after the one where the fans were split 50/50 on it, and the one that was the hardest for him, so it coimes across like the only reason it comes up is to discredit Anderson and to give an excuse to chael.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

marcthegame said:


> See if he does rub it all on his shorts, then how does he get his hands clean afterwards?


He can ask for a towel. Or even simpler he can ask the ref to just rub his face with a towel. Remove the middle man.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

funkasaurus said:


> I didnt mean that YOU are saying this, but it's only really come up since this fight. Of all of Silva's fights, it comes after the one where the fans were split 50/50 on it, and the one that was the hardest for him, so it coimes across like the only reason it comes up is to discredit Anderson and to give an excuse to chael.


Well it had absolutely nothing to do with the outcome of the fight ESPECIALLY since the ref did his job and wiped Anderson down. So anyone using it as a way to discredit Andersons win is a complete dummy.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> It will be because rubbing Vaseline on your body is not allowed. Now they will know to watch out for it and will wipe them off each and every time because those are the rules. You cannot put Vaseline on your body. Simple as that. It has nothing to do with at their discretion. If a guy is rubbing Vaseline on his body then they NEED to wipe him down. They cant choose not to do it because then its playing favorites. Rules are there for a reason.
> 
> And they wont towel it off between rounds because at that point its just the nature of the beast. Neither guy is taking Vaseline and rubbing it on their body. Its just a natural occurrence in the sport of fighting. Taking vaseline from your face and putting it on your body, isnt.


You aren't allowed to hold the cage while throwing a strike that is a rule. How many times have you seen a ref warn or deduct a point for it? As Kizer said that is at the referees discretion and so is this. Every instance of a referee inserting himself into the bought in any way is at his discretion.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> Well it had absolutely nothing to do with the outcome of the fight ESPECIALLY since the ref did his job and wiped Anderson down. So anyone using it as a way to discredit Andersons win is a complete dummy.


Yeah but I bet you yourself haven't really noticed this until a fight this big. It's just the way things come about. When Anderson was tearing through an easy enough opponent like Okami, he could have walked in head to toe in baby oil and no one would have noticed a thing, but because of the 50/50 split in the fans, the magnitude of the fight and the importance of it to the sport, it Silva has an unclipped toe nail it would be noticed.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> He can ask for a towel. Or even simpler he can ask the ref to just rub his face with a towel. Remove the middle man.


Is that legal though as were under the impression vaseline is mandatory?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> You aren't allowed to hold the cage while throwing a strike that is a rule. How many times have you seen a ref warn or deduct a point for it? As Kizer said that is at the referees discretion and so is this. Every instance of a referee inserting himself into the bought in any way is at his discretion.


BECAUSE those are split second calls. It isnt easy to figure out whether the guy did break a rule or if he didnt break a rule in the split moment. Its up to the referee to decide that.

Taking vaseline from your face and applying it to the body is NOT a split second call. Its something you look at and know whether he did it or not. So if a guy did it you wipe him off. If a guy didnt do it then you dont wipe him off. Simple as that. And even if for some reason you look the other way when the guy is doing it and someone complains to you that he did it. You still wipe him off and make sure. The fight hasnt started yet after all.

These are very much common sense scenarios. Im shocked to be getting these comments from you.




funkasaurus said:


> Yeah but I bet you yourself haven't really noticed this until a fight this big. It's just the way things come about. When Anderson was tearing through an easy enough opponent like Okami, he could have walked in head to toe in baby oil and no one would have noticed a thing, but because of the 50/50 split in the fans, the magnitude of the fight and the importance of it to the sport, it Silva has an unclipped toe nail it would be noticed.


I noticed it a fight ago but i get your point.



marcthegame said:


> Is that legal though as were under the impression vaseline is mandatory?


Yeah you know im sure it is. But even if a ref towels you off a bit there is still going to be some Vaseline on your face. Enough to make the punches slip off. And the reason for Anderson rubbing it on his body according to "some" people is that he probably doesnt like it going in to his eye. So having the ref rub off just enough helps him out and still keeps him within the rules.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Except that he obviously doesn't have to remove it. Just like when the cutman puts way too much on a cut he doesn't have to. That also isn't a split second decision. It is up to the ref to decide whether or not he needs to wipe him down. It isn't mandatory.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> I noticed it a fight ago but i get your point.


Yeah, like theres a reason we're having this convo now and not a fight ago. I'm guilty of it myself. The only reason I'm responding is because the recent events has got me so interested you know. People like to talk about the recent things they are interested in, but it can come across as hating on someone or giving excuses to someone.

If I posted a thread, regardless of my opinion, saying "Silva was greasing", I'd be generally seen as a hater or Sonnen fan. Thats nothing on Silva's supporters, it's that I posted it RIGHT after the fight you know.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> Except that he obviously doesn't have to remove it. Just like when the cutman puts way too much on a cut he doesn't have to. That also isn't a split second decision. It is up to the ref to decide whether or not he needs to wipe him down. It isn't mandatory.


A cutman is one of the personal allowed to apply vaseline. A fighter does not fall into that category.

And when has a cutman put too much vaseline on a guys body anyway???


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> A cutman is one of the personal allowed to apply vaseline. A fighter does not fall into that category.
> 
> And when has a cutman put too much vaseline on a guys body anyway???


You aren't allowed to have excess amounts anywhere. The ref is allowed to decide if the cutman left too much on and have it fixed.

Lets look at your common sense. Removing small amounts of vaseline and putting it on your chest not alright leaving giant globs of vaseline on a fighters face that will get all over both fighters and the mat is perfectly fine. Sonnen rubbing vaseline all over Anderson Silva's chest doesn't matter yet Anderson rubbing it on his own chest does.

The rules are in place to prevent excess grease from getting on fighters bodies if it is alright for him to have that amount of vaseline on his chest in one instance how is it not alright in another. Actual common sense tells you that this shit doesn't ******* matter in any way.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Off topic but look at this cat like reaction:


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> You aren't allowed to have excess amounts anywhere. The ref is allowed to decide if the cutman left too much on and have it fixed.


A Cutman and Referee are BOTH allowed to deal with Vaseline. If a fighter has too much Vaseline on his face then obviously the Ref can decide to get rid of it if he feels it will have an impact on the fight.

The body is NOT allowed to have Vaseline. And the fighter is not allowed to put Vaseline on his body.



> *Vaseline may be applied solely to the facial area* at cage side or ringside in the presence of an inspector, referee, or a person designated by the commission.


Not the body.

If it gets applied to the body they HAVE to wipe it down. That is fact according to the rules. Its not up to anyones discretion. 
They are not allowed to have 1 person rub Vaseline on his body and the other person is not allowed. That is playing favorites and that is also not allowed.




> *the group discussed the application of any substance* *to the* hair or *body* which could result in an advantage. *Absolutely "no" body grease, gels, balms, lotions oils, or other substances may be applied to the hair, face or body. This includes the use of excessive amounts of water "dumped" on a contestant to make him/her slippery.* However, Vaseline may be applied solely to the facial area


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

marcthegame said:


> Off topic but look at this cat like reaction:


It is freaking amazing.

They should create a new Matrix Anime and have him be "The One"


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Except that vaseline is applied to the body throughout the fight by the fighters so it clearly is allowed. The way you are interpreting that rule means Chael is guilty of greasing Anderson. The rule is not in place to prevent the small amounts of vaseline the cutman applies from getting on the fighters bodies.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> Except that vaseline is applied to the body throughout the fight by the fighters so it clearly is allowed. The way you are interpreting that rule means Chael is guilty of greasing Anderson. *The rule is not in place to prevent the small amounts of vaseline the cutman applies from getting on the fighters bodies.*


As i explained to you that is the nature of the beast when you put Vaseline on someones face. Throughout the fight it will spread and or the sweat will move it around. There isnt much that can be done about that and its nothing that should be done about that.
Neither fighter is gaining an unfair advantage.


On the other hand having a guy rub Vaseline from his face and spreading it on his body is VERY MUCH something that can be dealt with. Seeing as how the fighter himself chose to take the Vaseline and apply it on his body.
Which explained in the rules is illegal, because it can cause an unfair advantage.

The rule is in place so a fighter doesnt take Vaseline or anything else greasy and rubs it on his body.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

marcthegame said:


> Off topic but look at this cat like reaction:


That picture makes it look amazing, but to be fair it was miles off and a terrible backfist.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Hm first appointing Chael as "Honorary TRT advisor to the commission", now running over to his rescue for a minor rule break after all the rules chael himself has broken. Clearly someone hasn't been bribed


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> Except that vaseline is applied to the body throughout the fight by the fighters so it clearly is allowed. The way you are interpreting that rule means Chael is guilty of greasing Anderson. The rule is not in place to prevent the small amounts of vaseline the cutman applies from getting on the fighters bodies.


You know whats at the discretion of the Ref??? Whether he wants to take a point or even a DQ or neither. Thats the choice the ref has.

wiping the Vaseline the contestant applied to his body off is mandatory.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> As i explained to you that is the nature of the beast when you put Vaseline on someones face. Throughout the fight it will spread and or the sweat will move it around. There isnt much that can be done about that and its nothing that should be done about that.
> Neither fighter is gaining an unfair advantage.
> 
> 
> ...


It creates no unfair advantage. You are talking nonsense either you are allowed to have vaseline on your body or you aren't. You keep claiming that it must be wiped off by the ref if it is on the body. The ref could clearly wipe down the fighters bodies between rounds. 

The vaseline isn't distributed evenly in the same areas of the body at the same time during the fight. You are contradicting yourself out of convenience for your argument.


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## freakshowexcess (Apr 25, 2010)

osmium said:


> It creates no unfair advantage. You are talking nonsense either you are allowed to have vaseline on your body or you aren't. You keep claiming that it must be wiped off by the ref if it is on the body. The ref could clearly wipe down the fighters bodies between rounds.
> 
> The vaseline isn't distributed evenly in the same areas of the body at the same time during the fight. You are contradicting yourself out of convenience for your argument.


Except he's not claiming that it must be wiped off if it is on the body. He is claiming that it must be wiped off if the fighter himself puts it on his body.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> It creates no unfair advantage. You are talking nonsense either you are allowed to have vaseline on your body or you aren't. You keep claiming that it must be wiped off by the ref if it is on the body. The ref could clearly wipe down the fighters bodies between rounds.
> 
> The vaseline isn't distributed evenly in the same areas of the body at the same time during the fight. You are contradicting yourself out of convenience for your argument.


Anderson taking Vaseline off his face is different then sweat spreading it around in the fight.

You are the one talking rubbish trying to compare the two. The rule is against a fighter rubbing vaseline or anything else on his body. In the middle of the fight Anderson isnt taking Vaseline and rubbing it on his body. There is such a huge difference i cant even believe your comparing the two.

And "sweat" is a natural occurrence. You CANNOT rub of the Vaseline without rubbing off the sweat. And there is nothing against the rules about sweating. And it doesnt matter because Anderson isnt rubbing the Vaseline onto his body anyway. So it isnt illegal.

And is Anderson rubbing his face onto his body during the fight?? No he is not. If anything Chael helps it spread during the fight because thats just what fighting does.

There is SUCH A HUGE difference between Anderson purposely taking Vaseline and rubbing it throughout his body and what happens naturally in a fight.

And where the hell did i claim it gets spread evenly around the body?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

freakshowexcess said:


> Except he's not claiming that it must be wiped off if it is on the body. He is claiming that it must be wiped off if the fighter himself puts it on his body.


God damn exactly!!

jesus crist i thought i was somehow not explaining it clear enough so i have to repeat myself in 10 different ways.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Anderson taking Vaseline off his face is different then sweat spreading it around in the fight.
> 
> You are the one talking rubbish trying to compare the two. The rule is against a fighter rubbing vaseline or anything else on his body. In the middle of the fight Anderson isnt taking Vaseline and rubbing it on his body. There is such a huge difference i cant even believe your comparing the two.
> 
> ...


The rule is against anyone other than the cutman applying vaseline and only to the face. It doesn't make any allowances for what you are claiming.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> God damn exactly!!
> 
> jesus crist i thought i was somehow not explaining it clear enough so i have to repeat myself in 10 different ways.


Was waiting for this lmao


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> The rule is against anyone other than the cutman applying vaseline and only to the face. It doesn't make any allowances for what you are claiming.


Do you not understand that it "naturally" spread throughout the fight??? 




> Any contestant applying anything other than Vaseline i*n an approved fashion at the appropriate time* could be penalized a point or subject to loss by disqualification.


Fighters fighting and the vaseline naturally spreading as the fight going on is "approved".

How the **** do you not understand this??

Anderson Silva taking the vaseline and rubbing it throughout his body is not approved.

The Referee has to remove the grease or Vaseline that a fighter applies to his body. To prevent any unfair advantages. It is NOT at his discretion. 

What happens naturally in a fight is not unfair in any way shape or form. There is no need to wipe peoples sweat down.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Do you not understand that it "naturally" spread throughout the fight???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How do you not understand that what he did was irrelevant and in no way an advantage? Explain to me how he would gain an advantage from putting a small amount of vaseline on his chest. What techniques is that helping him stop that wouldn't have resulted in his opponents vaseline already being applied to that area.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

no clue what this goof is talking about.

if he has a problem with anything that went on...which nothing of note did other than a proper ass beating....he should take it up with the refs. 

so i expect the next time someone accidentally grabs the cage in vegas their ass will be grass too...


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## GermanJJ (Jun 26, 2011)

So a fighter is not allowed to touch his face after the vaseline is applied until the fight starts or what? At what point is he allowed to wipe of sweat/blood/.. or scratch himself?

Because if you did it accidently, it would still mean you would have transfered vaseline from the head to the body. The amount of transfered substance surely wouldn't be relevant in this rule.

Or he is allowed to touch his face but afterwards is not allowed to rub his belly? I am not saying he wasn't purposely transfering some vaseline.

There is no such rule. The only rule is, that the cutman applies it and only to the face. It's a grey area at best but how could they ever enforce or control such a rule? It would really mean that a fighter is not allowed to touch his own face.

I can't believe this is still going on. It makes zero difference.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> How do you not understand that what he did was irrelevant and in no way an advantage? Explain to me how he would gain an advantage from putting a small amount of vaseline on his chest. What techniques is that helping him stop that wouldn't have resulted in his opponents vaseline already being applied to that area.


Its exactly those kind of comments why it has to be rubbed off always. A Ref isnt able to know whether it gives an advantage or not. No one can know that. But it needs to be a 100% even playing field. The fact that this is even being discussed is proof of that. Had he not been rubbed down people would be saying he won unfairly.

We dont know what kind of advantage rubbing Vaseline on your body can give you or how much he rubbed off. But to be honest it did look like he rubbed a good amount off and you mix that with sweat it actually becomes quiet slippery. The point is they need to make SURE there is no advantage and thats why they need to rub it off. There is no ifs and butts about it. Why would Anderson do it in the first place??? Chael didnt do it. If it was because he thought he had too much on his face well then he can go and ask the ref to rub some off his face, simple as that.
The contestant isnt allowed to put Vaseline or anything else on his body and thats all there is to it. If he does then it needs to be wiped down.




GermanJJ said:


> So a fighter is not allowed to touch his face after the vaseline is applied until the fight starts or what? At what point is he allowed to wipe of sweat/blood/.. or scratch himself?
> 
> Because if you did it accidently, it would still mean you would have transfered vaseline from the head to the body. The amount of transfered substance surely wouldn't be relevant in this rule.
> 
> ...


There is an extremely big difference between a fighter scratching something and a fighter rubbing his face and taking that Vaseline and spreading it across his body. The line is obvious to anyone with any common sense.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> no clue what this goof is talking about.
> 
> if he has a problem with anything that went on...which nothing of note did other than a proper ass beating....he should take it up with the refs.
> 
> so i expect the next time someone accidentally grabs the cage in vegas their ass will be grass too...


HE is talking about the shoulder bump at the weigh in.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Gee wiz...

The tiny amount of Vaseline that was speared on Anderson shoulder really kicked in in the 2nd round. I mean what other explanation is there for the fact that Sonnen was helpless in the 2nd round? Clearly this Vasaline was the whole reason Anderson won the fight. Certainly not Sonnen's one-dimensional game.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Gee wiz...
> 
> The tiny amount of Vaseline that was speared on Anderson shoulder really kicked in in the 2nd round. I mean what other explanation is there for the fact that Sonnen was helpless in the 2nd round? Clearly this Vasaline was the whole reason Anderson won the fight. Certainly not Sonnen's one-dimensional game.


Not a single person is claiming that. You seem to be the first.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Its exactly those kind of comments why it has to be rubbed off always. A Ref isnt able to know whether it gives an advantage or not. No one can know that. But it needs to be a 100% even playing field. The fact that this is even being discussed is proof of that. Had he not been rubbed down people would be saying he won unfairly.
> 
> We dont know what kind of advantage rubbing Vaseline on your body can give you. But to be honest he did rub a good amount off and you mix that with sweat it actually becomes quiet slippery. The point is they need to make SURE there is no advantage and thats why they need to rub it off. There is no ifs and butts about it. Why would Anderson do it in the first place??? Chael didnt do it. If it was because he thought he had too much on his face well then he can go and ask the ref to rub some off his face, simple as that.
> The contestant isnt allowed to put Vaseline or anything else on his body and thats all there is to it. If he does then it needs to be wiped down.


No I can tell you for a fact that it gives him zero advantages since you don't grip someone by the front of their chest and in fact it actually puts him at a disadvantage because he then has it all over his fingers which affects his ability to grip. We know why Anderson does it he hates having vaseline on his face because it mixes with his sweat and drips into his eyes. Though maybe I can see your point it obviously prevents Chael from winning by that titty twister submission Vinny taught him.


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## freakshowexcess (Apr 25, 2010)

Some of the responses in this thread are ridiculous. Where exactly is Sideways arguing that Silva was intentionally trying to give himself an advantage by taking some of the vasoline from his face and applying it to his body? All he is saying is that, regardless of whatever Silva's reasons were for doing it, it is against the rules, which from what I've read I'd have to agree. He's not at all trying to imply that it's the reason why Silva won the fight. In fact, he's specifically said already that he views it as a non-issue in terms of it's overall impact on the end result of the fight.


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## GermanJJ (Jun 26, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> Its exactly those kind of comments why it has to be rubbed off always. A Ref isnt able to know whether it gives an advantage or not. No one can know that. But it needs to be a 100% even playing field. The fact that this is even being discussed is proof of that. Had he not been rubbed down people would be saying he won unfairly.
> 
> We dont know what kind of advantage rubbing Vaseline on your body can give you. But to be honest he did rub a good amount off and you mix that with sweat it actually becomes quiet slippery. The point is they need to make SURE there is no advantage and thats why they need to rub it off. There is no ifs and butts about it. Why would Anderson do it in the first place??? Chael didnt do it. If it was because he thought he had too much on his face well then he can go and ask the ref to rub some off his face, simple as that.
> The contestant isnt allowed to put Vaseline or anything else on his body and thats all there is to it. If he does then it needs to be wiped down.
> ...


You did not get my point? I did also say that he didn't scratch. I know exactly that he was wiping it off and applying it to the chest. 

What does the rule say? Provide it please? If there is a rule, then what is the amount that is allowed to be transfered? Is a fighter allowed to touch his face? Touching your face, scratching, wiping,... everything *would* take off vaseline. Right?
Is there a rule that both fighters have to be wiped clean with a towel before the fight?

There are simply no rules on that subject, are there?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> No I can tell you for a fact that it gives him zero advantages since you don't grip someone by the front of their chest and in fact it actually puts him at a disadvantage because he then has it all over his fingers which affects his ability to grip. We know why Anderson does it he hates having vaseline on his face because it mixes with his sweat and drips into his eyes. Though maybe I can see your point it obviously prevents Chael from winning by that titty twister submission Vinny taught him.


A fighter is NOT allowed to put Vaseline or anything else on his body. How you do not understand that is beyond me.

Okay yeah they should all just rub Vaseline on their bodies because it gives no advantage. Right?

Call up the commission then and make them change the rules.


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## GermanJJ (Jun 26, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> A fighter is NOT allowed to put Vaseline or anything else on his body. How you do not understand that is beyond me.
> 
> Okay yeah they should all just rub Vaseline on their bodies because it gives no advantage. Right?
> 
> Call up the commission then and make them change the rules.


He did not put anything on, he was transfering it. There is no rule that says a fighter is not allowed to do that.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

GermanJJ said:


> You did not get my point? I did also say that he didn't scratch. I know exactly that he was wiping it off and applying it to the chest.
> 
> What does the rule say? Provide it please? If there is a rule, then what is the amount that is allowed to be transfered? Is a fighter allowed to touch his face? Touching your face, scratching, wiping,... everything *would* take off vaseline. Right?
> Is there a rule that both fighters have to be wiped clean with a tower before the fight?
> ...


The rule is simple. A fighter is not allowed to rub vaseline or anything else on his body. At the end of the day common sense plays a bigger role then anything else. Scratching your nose and rubbing your nipple isnt going to constitute a wipe down. BUT if a fighter is putting Vaseline or anything else on his body then he is forced to be wiped down. Its more then obvious what constitutes that meaning. 
The ref has a choice of letting it slide after the wipe down or giving him a point deduction or DQ.

You can search the thread if you want. Im talking to Osmium mostly and dont need to help you do your job. Its in the thread so go look.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

GermanJJ said:


> He did not put anything on, he was transfering it. There is no rule that says a fighter is not allowed to do that.


Yes there is.

There is a rule that says a fighter is not allowed to put Vaseline on the body. That means whether he is putting it from his face on to his body or the bottle to his body. It makes no difference. Putting Vaseline on your body is putting Vaseline on your body. It can come from your butthole for all it matters. *A contestant is not allowed to handle Vaseline in a manner which is not approved. And it does not say ANYWHERE that taking Vaseline from your face to your body is approved. And did you miss the part where he got wiped down??? thats because it ISNT allowed.*

its the same argument from the start. This is why new people joining in is annoying.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

I get what SideWays is saying, but is a fighter allowed to put vaseline on their body?


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## GermanJJ (Jun 26, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> The rule is simple. A fighter is not allowed to rub vaseline or anything else on his body. At the end of the day common sense plays a bigger role then anything else. Scratching your nose and rubbing your nipple isnt going to constitute a wipe down. BUT if a fighter is putting Vaseline or anything else on his body then he is forced to be wiped down. Its more then obvious what constitutes that meaning.
> The ref has a choice of letting it slide after the wipe down or giving him a point deduction or DQ.
> 
> You can search the thread if you want. Im talking to Osmium mostly and dont need to help you do your job. Its in the thread so go look.


I read the whole thread...
Whatever...the rule doesn't say what you are stating. AS didn't put vaseline on.

My point (again) is that there is no rule on this specific subject: a fighter wiping of vaseline from his face and putting it onto other parts of his body.

New people joining in... hahaha yeah i joined this forum 2011 and rarely post. Ok -> newbie
But -> How long am i following martial arts?
bye


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> A fighter is NOT allowed to put Vaseline or anything else on his body. How you do not understand that is beyond me.
> 
> Okay yeah they should all just rub Vaseline on their bodies because it gives no advantage. Right?
> 
> Call up the commission then and make them change the rules.


I am telling you that what he did was arbitrary and not what the rule was made to prevent. I don't have a problem with toweling him off I just don't have a problem with someone putting a little vaseline on their chest because it doesn't change anything and it shouldn't be presented as though a ref is doing a bad job because he doesn't care about something that doesn't matter in any way.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

GermanJJ said:


> I read the whole thread...
> Whatever...the rule doesn't say what you are stating. AS didn't put vaseline on.
> 
> My point (again) is that there is no rule on this specific subject: a fighter wiping of vaseline from his face and putting it onto other parts of his body.


They dont need to word it in a way you like.

The rule EXACTLY states a Contestant is not allowed to take Vaseline and apply it in a manner not approved or at an in appropriate time. Which means it needs to be approved before they can legally do it.


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## freakshowexcess (Apr 25, 2010)

GermanJJ said:


> I read the whole thread...
> Whatever...the rule doesn't say what you are stating. AS didn't put vaseline on.
> 
> My point (again) is that there is no rule on this specific subject: a fighter wiping of vaseline from his face and putting it onto other parts of his body.


The thing you're not realizing is that your point is proving Sideways' point. There is no rule on it. Which means it's not specifically approved. Which means it's not allowed.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> I am telling you that what he did was arbitrary and not what the rule was made to prevent. I don't have a problem with toweling him off I just don't have a problem with someone putting a little vaseline on their chest because it doesn't change anything and it shouldn't be presented as though a ref is doing a bad job because he doesn't care about something that doesn't matter in any way.


Putting Vaseline or anything greasy on your body is considered an unfair advantage. Whether you agree with it or not. The rule is ment to prevent from people putting vasseline or any greasy substance on to their body. Which it states EXACTLY. If a fighter decides to do that then he gets wiped down. And THEN the ref can decide to deduct a point, DQ, or neither.

Thats the way it works with the rules whether you like it or not. You DONT decide how much Vaseline is fine.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

freakshowexcess said:


> The thing you're not realizing is that your point is proving Sideways' point. There is no rule on it. Which means it's not specifically approved. Which means it's not allowed.


+
Which is exactly why they worded it as needing to be approved. So the contestant cannot say "Well it doesnt say i cant do it".


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## GermanJJ (Jun 26, 2011)

freakshowexcess said:


> The thing you're not realizing is that your point is proving Sideways' point. There is no rule on it. Which means it's not specifically approved. Which means it's not allowed.


When BJ slaps his face with both hands and wipes them down he surely is taking off vaseline. It's not allowed because there is no rule. Correct?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

GermanJJ said:


> When BJ slaps his face with both hands and wipes them down he surely is taking off vaseline. It's not allowed because there is no rule. Correct?


Again... thats where common sense comes into play. 

He might be moving a minimal amount over. Certainly nothing compared to rubbing your face for the direct purpose of taking Vaseline off and rubbing your body, rinse and repeat.
Its obvious when someone is taking Vaseline and rubbing it on his body or when someone just happened to touch his face.


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## freakshowexcess (Apr 25, 2010)

GermanJJ said:


> When BJ slaps his face with both hands and wipes them down he surely is taking off vaseline. It's not allowed because there is no rule. Correct?


I think you're grasping at straws here. I think we can pretty much all agree that BJ's intent for doing that is not to spread vasoline on his body, but as a matter of fact, yea, I'd say that is correct. If a ref decided to wipe him down for doing that, they'd be well within their right to do it. I'd personally find it ridiculous if they did so, but I'd have a hard time arguing that it wasn't justified according to the rules.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Anderson does this in nearly every single fight. Or at least I remember him doing it a few times before.I didn't read the entire thread, but I am going to assume from the current discussion it has not been brought up.

Anyways, I seem to recall him doing this at least a couple times before. The rules in MMA are so freaky wishy-washy it is sad. 

Here I found an example:


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

freakshowexcess said:


> I think you're grasping at straws here. I think we can pretty much all agree that BJ's intent for doing that is not to spread vasoline on his body, but as a matter of fact, yea, I'd say that is correct. If a ref decided to wipe him down for doing that, they'd be well within their right to do it. I'd personally find it ridiculous if they did so, but I'd have a hard time arguing that it wasn't justified according to the rules.


I was about to say the same thing. The ref would just be following the rules. But not a single person is that nit picky. 

If BJ starts rubbing Vaseline off and rubbing it on his body. Then the REF HAS to clean BJ off. There is no way around it. He cant just say "Well its BJ so i think its fine"


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Ape City said:


> Anderson does this in nearly every single fight. Or at least I remember him doing it a few times before.I didn't read the entire thread, but I am going to assume from the current discussion it has not been brought up.
> 
> Anyways, I seem to recall him doing this at least a couple times before. The rules in MMA are so freaky wishy-washy it is sad.
> 
> ...


It has been brought up. And as Kizer said "I saw Anderson do this before but i didnt think he would be this obvious about it". Which he is basically admitting to being lazy and not doing his job UNTIL it was so obvious he couldnt ignore it. You can guarantee people will become stricter about it after this fiasco. Alot of the refs are still learning after all.


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## GermanJJ (Jun 26, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> Again... thats where common sense comes into play.
> 
> He might be moving a minimal amount over. Certainly nothing compared to rubbing your face for the direct purpose of taking Vaseline off and rubbing your body, rinse and repeat.
> Its obvious when someone is taking Vaseline and rubbing it on his body or when someone just happened to touch his face.


I agree! But where do you draw the line?
If BJ rubs his belly afterwards the vaseline is applied to this part of his body. Right? He is not supposed to do that according to you. Intentional or not is not relevant.

That's what rules are for. To draw the line. They should specify this exact subject.

Do you get my point at all? I get your point but simply think the rule, as it is, is not specific enough to say if it's cheating or not. -> grey area


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

GermanJJ said:


> I agree! But where do you draw the line?
> If BJ rubs his belly afterwards the vaseline is applied to this part of his body. Right? He is not supposed to do that according to you. Intentional or not is not relevant.
> 
> That's what rules are for. To draw the line. They should specify this exact subject.
> ...


I get your point but that part is determined with common sense. If we all think rationally we can ALL establish a similar line. At the end of the day the Ref determines that line BUT he cant take the line all the way to left field. (Or he risks being accused of favoritism and other stuff). So thats why everyone needs to be wiped down if they put Vaseline on their bodies.
What Anderson did is clearly considered "rubbing Vaseline on your body" and that is NOT allowed. No ifs and buts.

If someone complains about someone scratching their face and then their body well that complaint wont go anywhere.
IF Anderson wants less Vaseline on his face then he can ask the Ref to wipe some off with a towel. All answers are very easy and very practical. 


There are THOUSANDS of rules that you can nit pick at like that. 
For instance you are not allowed to throw 12 to 6 elbows. But if you are on your back you are allowed to throw them. Now go and find me in the rule book why 1 is allowed and the other isnt??? Infact you wont even find anything mentioning that 12 to 6 elbows are legal while on your back.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> I get your point but that part is determined with common sense. If we all think rationally we can ALL establish a similar line. At the end of the day the Ref determines that line BUT he cant take the line all the way to left field.
> What Anderson did is clearly considered "rubbing Vaseline on your body" and that is NOT allowed. No ifs and buts.
> 
> 
> ...


I think they might actually be illegal. I remember after the Lutter fight there was some controversy as to whether the elbows Silva used while he had him in a triangle were 12-6 and the ref's response was that they were angled slightly and thus not 12-6. They likely go over a lot of the nuances of the rules that aren't specifically laid out with the refs when they train them.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> I think they might actually be illegal. I remember after the Lutter fight there was some controversy as to whether the elbows Silva used while he had him in a triangle were 12-6 and the ref's response was that they were angled slightly and thus not 12-6.


You know i actually think your right. I remember something similar to that. But then i also remember Rogan (I think it was in the Jones/Hamill fight) saying that if he is on his back they are legal. Not to positive on that.. the memory is blurry.

But i mean if they are illegal that proves the point even more. (Example) It says no where that 12-6 elbows on the back are illegal thus making them legal. Which is obviously not how things work. Same thing people claiming it doesnt mention anything about Vaseline that someone grabs from their own face.


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## GermanJJ (Jun 26, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> I get your point but that part is determined with common sense. If we all think rationally we can ALL establish a similar line. At the end of the day the Ref determines that line BUT he cant take the line all the way to left field. (Or he risks being accused of favoritism and other stuff). So thats why everyone needs to be wiped down if they put Vaseline on their bodies.
> What Anderson did is clearly considered "rubbing Vaseline on your body" and that is NOT allowed. No ifs and buts.
> 
> 
> ...


To end this now:
I personally think they should specify the rule or make a new rule on this subject.



> However, Vaseline may be applied solely to the facial area at cage side or ringside in the presence of an inspector, referee, or a person designated by the commission.





> Any contestant applying anything other than Vaseline in an approved fashion at the appropriate time could be penalized a point or subject to loss by disqualification.


This *in my opinion* says nothing about transfering the vaseline. I might be wrong. I don't think it made any kind of difference in all fights.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

GermanJJ said:


> To end this now:
> I personally think they should specify the rule or make a new rule on this subject.
> 
> 
> ...


It says it is only allowed on the face. And it also says a contestant is only allowed to apply Vaseline in a "approved fashion at an appropriate time".

Now find me a rule that says applying Vaseline from the face to the body is approved??? Its very simple. They were smart for using that wording.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

They need to make a lot of their rules and criteria more clear.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> He can ask for a towel. Or even simpler he can ask the ref to just rub his face with a towel. Remove the middle man.


I guess, he is just to focussed on the fight. Probably he isn't aware himself that he does it. So for the future it would be the job of his corner to inform the cutman to not apply as much vaseline as he does normally.

Concerning the 12-6 elbows, I guess it depends on the frame of reference. If you use the fighter as reference, then they would be illegal also from the bottom position, but as some guy who neg repped me said when I spoke in favor of making them legal as they are one of the rare usefull strikes for fighters on the bottom, you could also make the frame of reference the hall with the ceiling being 12 and the ground being 6, then they would be legal.


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## GermanJJ (Jun 26, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> It says it is only allowed on the face. And it also says a contestant is only allowed to apply Vaseline in a "approved fashion at an appropriate time".
> 
> Now find me a rule that says applying Vaseline from the face to the body is approved??? Its very simple. They were smart for using that wording.


It says it is only *applied* to the face. Not that it's only allowed on the face. It's a difference. The applying under the presence of an inspector is only allowed to the face.

Don't take that serious but:
Interpretation A:
The face in this case is used to "measure" the amount of vaseline that should be applied. The face gets prepared and this is the amount a fighter is allowed to use in the cage.
Interpretation B:
After being applied to the face the contestant is not allowed to transfer any amount of vaseline.



> They need to make a lot of their rules and criteria more clear.


Agree. I just like everything to be clear and leave no room for interpretation.

The fact that this is still discussed is prove that the rule is not specific enough imho.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

GermanJJ said:


> It says it is only *applied* to the face. Not that it's only allowed on the face. It's a difference. The applying under the presence of an inspector is only allowed to the face.
> 
> Don't take that serious but:
> Interpretation A:
> ...


Your picking at straws again.

It says "Can only be applied on the facial area". Thus it means you cannot take Vaseline and Apply it to the body. So either way it doesnt make it any better for what Anderson did.

In your definition you could basically apply all the vaseline you want to the body or anywhere aslong as no inspector is around. Lol


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

GermanJJ said:


> It says it is only *applied* to the face. Not that it's only allowed on the face. It's a difference. The applying under the presence of an inspector is only allowed to the face.
> 
> Don't take that serious but:
> Interpretation A:
> ...


Here is the full quote and it will make more sense to you.




> Absolutely "no" body grease, gels, balms, lotions oils, or other substances may be applied to the hair, face or body. This includes the use of excessive amounts of water "dumped" on a contestant to make him/her slippery. However, Vaseline may be applied solely to the facial area at cage side or ringside in the presence of an inspector, referee, or a person designated by the commission. Any contestant applying anything other than Vaseline in an approved fashion at the appropriate time could be penalized a point or subject to loss by disqualification.



So no kind of slippery substance is allowed to be put ANYWHERE without an inspector present.

The "Approved Fashion" is with a inspector,referee, or person designated. And at that point its only allowed on the face. And appropriate time is CageSide.


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## GermanJJ (Jun 26, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> Your picking at straws again.
> 
> It says "Can only be applied on the facial area". Thus it means you cannot take Vaseline and Apply it to the body. So either way it doesnt make it any better for what Anderson did.
> 
> In your definition you could basically apply all the vaseline you want to the body or anywhere aslong as no inspector is around. Lol


You think i am picking at straws and i think you are ignoring that it's not specific enough and leaves to much space for interpretation and discussion. I also think "transfering vaseline" was never on their mind when they made the rule.
I can't even say that i think AS didn't cheat/cheated. I'm saying noone can. :thumb02::confused02:



> However, Vaseline may be applied solely to the facial area at cage side or ringside in the presence of an inspector, referee, or a person designated by the commission. *A contestant is not allowed to transfer the applied amount of vaseline to another part of his body.*


Fixed - and i'm happy and would agree with you 100% that he was cheating/not playing by the rules.

Edit:


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

GermanJJ said:


> You think i am picking at straws and i think you are ignoring that it's not specific enough and leaves to much space for interpretation and discussion. I also think "transfering vaseline" was never on their mind when they made the rule.
> I can't even say that i think AS didn't cheat/cheated. I'm saying noone can. :thumb02::confused02:
> 
> 
> ...


Read above.

And they dont need to put something like that because it already falls under the category mentioned above.

I think the rules need to be alot more clear but given the rules that are stated right there Anderson taking Vaseline and rubbing it on his body is illegal. Thats not one of the things that needs to be more clear.

Anyway im off to bed.

This has been a long discussion and i applaud Osmium and everyone else involved. Its one of the few long discussions that remained Discussions and not flame fests lol.

Anyway good night guys.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I do agree it should be more clear, but this isn't even close to the first time Anderson has done this...


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Millionth time or first time really has nothing to do with it.

But thats already something discussed many times in this thread lmao.

Anyway good night again :thumb02:


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## GermanJJ (Jun 26, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> Read above.
> 
> And they dont need to put something like that because it already falls under the category mentioned above.





> Any contestant applying anything other than Vaseline in an approved fashion at the appropriate time could be penalized a point or subject to loss by disqualification.


I might have misread this sentence. I thought it's only stating that vaseline is the only allowed substance.
approved fashion...hmmmm :confused02: ....

I'll stop now and just wait if there's any official statement or any changes in upcoming fights.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

It's something that has already been discussed many times on the forum...


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

GermanJJ said:


> I might have misread this sentence. I thought it's only stating that vaseline is the only allowed substance.
> approved fashion...hmmmm :confused02: ....
> 
> I'll stop now and just wait if there's any official statement or any changes in upcoming fights.


Well i can definitely see where your opinion is coming from then lol. I would think the exact same thing. :thumbsup:


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

I cant understand how people are upset with Kizer for mentioning the wiping vasoline over his body. This was the "biggest fight in UFC history" and Anderson is clearly taking vasoline from his face and wiping it all over his body with the camera right on him. I was screaming at the television about it and was happy when the commission made him wipe it off.

Anderson says "Chael no respect nothing" and then wipes grease all over his body. Kinda hypocritical by the champ.

Bottom line is when you are the P4P GOAT and undefeated in the UFC you are probobly going to be held to a higher standard than other fighters. Fair or unfair, its the truth.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> I cant understand how people are upset with Kizer for mentioning the wiping vasoline over his body. This was the "biggest fight in UFC history" and Anderson is clearly taking vasoline from his face and wiping it all over his body with the camera right on him. I was screaming at the television about it and was happy when the commission made him wipe it off.
> 
> Anderson says "Chael no respect nothing" and then wipes grease all over his body. Kinda hypocritical by the champ.
> 
> *Bottom line is when you are the P4P GOAT and undefeated in the UFC you are probobly going to be held to a higher standard than other fighters. Fair or unfair, its the truth.*


You said it yourself, it's unfair. That's why myself and many fans don't care about this so called truth that only exists for people with double standards. Rules are for everyone, not just for people one is jealous of or wants to see fall.


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## Crester (Apr 5, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> That's true, but Silva is also unpredictable at times, Vitor was out of character, and I'm sure if he fights Munoz it will be heated also.


There's usually a reason for Anderon's outbursts. With Vitor I think it was something along the lines of Vitor wanting to train with Anderson... then after they trained together... immediately going to try and set up a title fight with him.


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## Crester (Apr 5, 2009)

Anderson is the best fighter in the world right now... there's no way Nevada would turn away a fight that involves him.

Money talks...!


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

Liddellianenko said:


> You said it yourself, it's unfair. That's why myself and many fans don't care about this so called truth that only exists for people with double standards. Rules are for everyone, not just for people one is jealous of or wants to see fall.


I never said it was unfair. In fact I think it is fair. He is getting the big $$$, he is getting the pub, he should be scrutinized more when he does something like wipe grease on himself on camera. 

If it was any other fighter they may be cut by the UFC or banned from Nevada for the first offense.


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## prolyfic (Apr 22, 2007)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I do agree it should be more clear, but this isn't even close to the first time Anderson has done this...


This is exactly my feeling. Its not so much that the rules need to be clearified it just needs to be consistant. Anderson consistantly wipes of the vasiline (against wrestlers, BJJ guys, and stand up fighters) so why is it only an issue now. Also he isn't the only one that does it its just not made a big deal about it. Other fighters that I have seen do it are quick about it but Anderson does it slow and then wipes his hands off on his shorts.

Now what advantage does a man, whose plan was to hold Chael down while he was on his back, have by making it easier for Chael to slip from his grip and posture up (which is what Chael wants to do). The shorts thing happens alot and this whole holding the fence thing to throw a knee is kinda crazy because he jumped into him and his hand was on the fence cause the fence was there. 

I just want to see consistency as oppose to clearification, if its a problem on Monday then it should be a problem everyday.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> I never said it was unfair. In fact I think it is fair. He is getting the big $$$, he is getting the pub, he should be scrutinized more when he does something like wipe grease on himself on camera.
> 
> If it was any other fighter they may be cut by the UFC or banned from Nevada for the first offense.


I don't think courts and such operate or should operate laws on the basis of fame. I think the application of laws and rules in sports is supposed to be universal and consistent, whether you're a scrub or the champ, rich or poor.

I haven't seen any other fighter, small or big, cut, banned, penalized or warned by the commission to this degree for half a fingertip-full of vaseline or 5 secs of shorts grab so I don't know where that comparison you're making comes from. If I'm wrong, please name one.

What I have seen is this commission and Kizer make a buff guy in his mid 30s a "scientific advisor" to the commission on his poor condition of hypogonadism after being suspended by a neighboring commission and walking into a championship match at 4 times the hormonal limit set by them, and roughly 16 times the limit set by nature, a very serious rule offense. 

Neither have I heard the commission say anything about the hundreds of fence and short grabs by other fighters, some much more consequential to their fights than this. 

Rules need to be more defined yes. But not just for Anderson. For ALL fighters. Until then this discussion is just a one-sided case of sour grapes.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> I don't think courts and such operate or should operate laws on the basis of fame. I think the application of laws and rules in sports is supposed to be universal and consistent, whether you're a scrub or the champ, rich or poor.
> 
> I haven't seen any other fighter, small or big, cut, banned, penalized or warned by the commission to this degree for half a fingertip-full of vaseline or 5 secs of shorts grab so I don't know where that comparison you're making comes from. If I'm wrong, please name one.
> 
> ...


I'm with you. No one should get an extra bonus in front of a court due to fame/money/etc., neither should he get an extra malus. In front of a court everybody should be treated the same - that's what makes a court _credible_.


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

Liddellianenko said:


> I don't think courts and such operate or should operate laws on the basis of fame. I think the application of laws and rules in sports is supposed to be universal and consistent, whether you're a scrub or the champ, rich or poor.
> 
> I haven't seen any other fighter, small or big, cut, banned, penalized or warned by the commission to this degree for half a fingertip-full of vaseline or 5 secs of shorts grab so I don't know where that comparison you're making comes from. If I'm wrong, please name one.
> 
> ...


Im not speaking in terms of rules themselves, I'm speaking in terms of the court of public opinion. If the first prelim fight of the night had someone wipe grease on themself I bet you would not hear a word from Kizer about it. But this is the main event where many many people care about, have bet money on, and are watching. This is not the first time Anderson has done this and this time it was blatant. Kizer had to say something about it to preserve the integrity of the NSAC (what little they may have) as well as the sport of MMA. 

Every fight Anderson has is very high profile, the NCAS cant have him wiping grease all over himself evrytime he fights in Nevada. He had to say something about it and warn Anderson. Its a PR thing.

Its simple, the bigger star you are the more publicity, money, fame you get, but you also get scrutinized more which is apart of the package of being a star.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> Im not speaking in terms of rules themselves, I'm speaking in terms of the court of public opinion. If the first prelim fight of the night had someone wipe grease on themself I bet you would not hear a word from Kizer about it. But this is the main event where many many people care about, have bet money on, and are watching. This is not the first time Anderson has done this and this time it was blatant. Kizer had to say something about it to preserve the integrity of the NSAC (what little they may have) as well as the sport of MMA.
> 
> Every fight Anderson has is very high profile, the NCAS cant have him wiping grease all over himself evrytime he fights in Nevada. He had to say something about it and warn Anderson. Its a PR thing.
> 
> Its simple, the bigger star you are the more publicity, money, fame you get, but you also get scrutinized more which is apart of the package of being a star.


Meh public opinion is fickle and just a popularity contest. Most of the outrcy seems to be from Sonnen supporters and fans, and they're still the minority and not representative of overall public opinion anyway. It's a poor court that lets public bias affect it's actions.

You're right in that it's a different beast, but I don't think any good court or commission should be swayed by public opinion or outcry. They should concentrate on consistency and fairness.


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

LOL... The same Kizer who granted Chael his TRT then asked him to work on his board with him.

The same same Kizer who thought Pacman actually lost his last fight...

The same Kizer who thinks he is above all MMA fighters an unless he getting a cut of the money he is talking mad smack..


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

Kizer is in a position that he had to address Silva's behavior. Striking Sonnen at the weigh-ins, blatantly grabbing shorts, the grease issue. No matter how major/minor these violations are viewed, they were viewed and violations. If those violations weren't addressed it sets a whole different precedent....

Take for example the shoulder he threw at Sonnen at the weigh-ins. It was harmless and hey... Brazil has manners right? But whatever, point is if it wasn't addressed then the next fighter looking to rub a little drama into their fight is likely to do it as well or worse thinking, "Hey, the last guy got away with it..." Basically it is a road that goes nowhere and Kizer is just saying, "We aren't going to do that here."

I'm not a huge Kizer fan, but I think he made the right call here.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Here is an exact quote on SIlva's so call greasing:

Neil Melanson: That's a good question and I actually have some insight to this. There is a lawyer and I've worked with him a few times and his fighters but he's most famous for doing the case for B.J. Penn. He was B.J.'s lawyer for the Georges St. Pierre fight where they put the vaseline on St. Pierre's shoulders and he was the one that went to the commission and made the rule happen that only cutmen can handle vaseline and keep people from getting hurt like that.

*I went to him and asked him about this maybe a year ago about Anderson spreading vaseline on his arms and his shoulders and he went to the commission and looked into it and he told me what they said was, the amount of vaseline that they put on the face by the cutman when they walk in is expected to be all over the body. They expect that amount of vaseline to be moved because they're gonna be grappling, it'll be transferred to your opponent's body, to your own body so by Anderson taking the vaseline and spreading it to his own body, that is okay because it's such a small amount and it's gonna spread anyways. They don't feel it's gonna make too much of a difference.* Once they put it on, trying to wipe it off with a towel is not gonna do a damn thing. The vaseline does not come off like that.

It looks kinda shady and he's not hiding the fact that he's doing it but I kinda agree with the commission. The little bit of vaseline on your face, if you get a guy in a guillotine it's gonna get all over your body and things are gonna get slippery but it's really not foul play in my opinion. I don't think it played any part of the takedowns or anything like that. Anderson's hips were really good and his base was wide and low. No, I don't think it was any foul play. I know it looks funny but it's been looked into and as far as I know, it's fine at this point.


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## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> Here is an exact quote on SIlva's so call greasing:
> 
> Neil Melanson: That's a good question and I actually have some insight to this. There is a lawyer and I've worked with him a few times and his fighters but he's most famous for doing the case for B.J. Penn. He was B.J.'s lawyer for the Georges St. Pierre fight where they put the vaseline on St. Pierre's shoulders and he was the one that went to the commission and made the rule happen that only cutmen can handle vaseline and keep people from getting hurt like that.
> 
> ...


This confirms my suspicions that the little bit they put on your face is fine. +repped for that sir. Anderson was only taken down when throwing a wild frenzy in this fight. He did a great job of fighting off a shot when his foot was caught by Sonnen and against the fence when Sonnen tryed to throw him. His takedown defense was absolutely pitiful in the first fight and I have always thought it was because he wasn't himself. That really made alot off people think Anderson suddenly had zero takedown defense for some reason and he's lived with that ever since.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

marcthegame said:


> Here is an exact quote on SIlva's so call greasing:





Sterl said:


> This confirms my suspicions that the little bit they put on your face is fine. +repped for that sir. Anderson was only taken down when throwing a wild frenzy in this fight. He did a great job of fighting off a shot when his foot was caught by Sonnen and against the fence when Sonnen tryed to throw him. His takedown defense was absolutely pitiful in the first fight and I have always thought it was because he wasn't himself. That really made alot off people think Anderson suddenly had zero takedown defense for some reason and he's lived with that ever since.




Well we can all agree that it probably wont make much of a difference. Im not sure if anyone was arguing that point.

He doesnt mention anything about what the rules allow. It just makes note that the commission doesnt really care about it because it spreads throughout the fight anyway (which we all know).
they have to towel him off cause of the rules even though the commission admits a towel wont really get rid of the Vaseline.
But it doesnt change the outcome of the fight so they dont care further then toweling the guy off.
This pretty much is exactly what i figured. If they thought it was a big deal they would react more then just grabbing a towel.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

As I said. At worst it will end in a "don't spread it over you body, people are complaining even if it's no big deal" by the refs to Silva and a "put less in his face, he doesn't like it" by the camp to the cutmen. No big deal.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

From Chael's coach...

*Neil Melanson: * "That's a good question and I actually have some insight to this. There is a lawyer and I've worked with him a few times and his fighters but he's most famous for doing the case for B.J. Penn. He was B.J.'s lawyer for the Georges St. Pierre fight where they put the vaseline on St. Pierre's shoulders and he was the one that went to the commission and made the rule happen that only cutmen can handle vaseline and keep people from getting hurt like that.

I went to him and asked him about this maybe a year ago about Anderson spreading vaseline on his arms and his shoulders and he went to the commission and looked into it and he told me what they said was, the amount of vaseline that they put on the face by the cutman when they walk in is expected to be all over the body. They expect that amount of vaseline to be moved because they're gonna be grappling, it'll be transferred to your opponent's body, to your own body so by Anderson taking the vaseline and spreading it to his own body, that is okay because it's such a small amount and it's gonna spread anyways. They don't feel it's gonna make too much of a difference. Once they put it on, trying to wipe it off with a towel is not gonna do a damn thing. The vaseline does not come off like that.

It looks kinda shady and he's not hiding the fact that he's doing it but I kinda agree with the commission. The little bit of vaseline on your face, if you get a guy in a guillotine it's gonna get all over your body and things are gonna get slippery but it's really not foul play in my opinion. I don't think it played any part of the takedowns or anything like that. Anderson's hips were really good and his base was wide and low. No, I don't think it was any foul play. I know it looks funny but it's been looked into and as far as I know, it's fine at this point."

Whole article here..
http://www.mmamania.com/2012/7/10/3...lay-chael-sonnens-coach-neil-melanson-ufc-148


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

K R Y said:


> From Chael's coach...
> 
> *Neil Melanson: * "That's a good question and I actually have some insight to this. There is a lawyer and I've worked with him a few times and his fighters but he's most famous for doing the case for B.J. Penn. He was B.J.'s lawyer for the Georges St. Pierre fight where they put the vaseline on St. Pierre's shoulders and he was the one that went to the commission and made the rule happen that only cutmen can handle vaseline and keep people from getting hurt like that.
> 
> ...


It was posted just a page ago. Your slipping Kry :thumb02:

But that doesnt say much on the rules. Just that the commission will only go as far as toweling them off and not punishing them. Which is pretty obvious. AND that toweling someone off doesnt actually get rid of Vaseline well and they are aware of that.
Which was talked about too in the thread.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

How on earth did I miss that...sigh 

The main part of that quote for me is...

"They expect that amount of vaseline to be moved because they're gonna be grappling, it'll be transferred to your opponent's body, to your own body so by Anderson taking the vaseline and spreading it to his own body, that is okay because it's such a small amount and it's gonna spread anyways."

Done as far as I'm concerned.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

K R Y said:


> How on earth did I miss that...sigh
> 
> The main part of that quote for me is...
> 
> ...


Yeah that's the key part. People can complain all they want about technicalities and whatever, but that's pretty much the thick of it. If someone actually greases themself with the vaseline, it can make a difference, but going from the small amount on your face to your body...what's the difference?


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

If he was adding EXTRA vaseline to his legs/torso/arms etc, I'm sure even the most die hard Silva fan would be a bit hesitant to even try and defend him.

But, what he did was as far away from that as possible. The vaseline from Sonnen's face was rubbed all over him within the first 10 seconds. It's just nitpicking.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

My Email. -



> I read the rules about Vaseline but this seems to still be uncertain.
> Before the bout starts a cutman applies Vaseline to the fighters face. Can the fighter legally step into the octagon and then take that Vaseline and spread it all across his body. Now chances are the fighter wont get much of a advantage doing this but that is still beside the point.
> I always understood your rule as it being not allowed for the fighter to handle Vaseline and spread it across his body, no matter what the amount. Obviously as with most rules common sense plays a big role too so scratching your face and then touching your body is not the same thing.
> And if a fighter does get caught rubbing the Vaseline on his face to the body is the proper response to just towel him off.


Keith Kaizers reply



> You are correct.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I emailed Keith Kaizer about this rule and his response was.

"You are correct."

A fighter is NOT allowed to rub vaseline on himself whether its from his face or not. And you have to towel him off if he does this.


Exactly what i was saying.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> My Email. -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Probably officials that were present at previous fights of Silva either didn't know about that or didn't care as obviously it isn't seen as real offence. Toweling off isn't in the same catergory as a point deduction. So as I said before, the best thing would be that his camp informs the cutman before the fight just to put less vaseline on his face. No big deal that all, looks like it was rather a minor communication issue.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Voiceless said:


> Probably officials that were present at previous fights of Silva either didn't know about that or didn't care as obviously it isn't seen as real offence. Toweling off isn't in the same catergory as a point deduction. So as I said before, the best thing would be that his camp informs the cutman before the fight just to put less vaseline on his face. No big deal that all, looks like it was rather a minor communication issue.


Its up to the ref to take a point deduction or DQ. But the commission is smart enough to realize that its going to get everywhere throughout the fight anyway so its extremely unlikely you will ever see a ref use that power. Everyone is happy with it just being toweled off and i think that is the correct way to handle it.

THAT SAID

Anderson should next time just ask the ref to take some off his face with a towel since a ref is allowed to do that. Instead of continuously breaking the rule and being toweled off.


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## music5x5 (Jun 9, 2010)

Keith _Bawse_ Kizer is like a rock star. I see him ring side at every big Boxing/MMA fight in Vegas. This guy is living the life. I guarantee he is banging hot chicks because of his job.


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