# Ufc Primetime lesnar vs Valasquez premieres tonight 11pm/10c



## Prolific (May 7, 2009)

just wanted to give out a reminder i almost forgot myself:thumb02:


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Looking forward to it:


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Honestly...i believe there is ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE it can top the previous one: Rashad-Rampage, in terms of trash-talking and irony and stuff like that.
But what i am hoping for (and do think it may happen) - is that we will get more acces to their training camps, to their training camps.
I really wanna see whats going on behind closed doors. It's not the first time we would get to see them train...but the previous times were maximum 15 min long.
This should be more than 2 and a half hours long. For the hardocre fans it should be a treat. Leaving aside the familly stuff and how they try to relax...it should offer us all acces to their "laboratories".
:thumbsup:


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## Johnni G (Dec 2, 2009)

Really hyped for this fight. Go Brock.


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## bigmarky (Jul 23, 2010)

i dont think there's enuf drama in this fight

im watchin it but its not gonna be like page/shard

he's dead he's dead
i mailed u a snuggy

this is gonna be
white pride meathead huntn
vs
brown pride talkin about his dad pickin vegetables

/lame.

i hope they can stir up some kinda drama or fedor will be quite happy


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

im prob in the minority but i think it will be a breath of fresh air to see two top level athletes that arent pandering to the crowd with fake hype and just being themselves.

It interests me to see how they really live, besides the hype. Im hoping this PrimeTime delivers a real inside look at both training camps. It should be interesting as Cain has a more traditional camp where he is part of a team, just another fighter in the group, whereas Lesnar has a camp built around him where he is the main focus but also the boss who is paying everybodys bills.


Either way, ill be tuning in.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

bigmarky said:


> i dont think there's enuf drama in this fight
> 
> im watchin it but its not gonna be like page/shard
> 
> ...


Yeah. Let's hope we don't just get an exciting fight between two of the top dogs at HW and nothing else. I mean, that'd just be weak.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Anyone have a stream I ca watch it on? I am currently on channelsurfing watching TUF, but it is a shaky stream, and not sure if it will carry to the primetime show....


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

bigmarky said:


> i dont think there's enuf drama in this fight
> 
> im watchin it but its not gonna be like page/shard
> 
> ...



This isn't the WWE.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Anyone have a stream I ca watch it on? I am currently on channelsurfing watching TUF, but it is a shaky stream, and not sure if it will carry to the primetime show....


help! peeps


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Best quote ever when they were talking about Velasquez and sparring partners, Don`t break your toys.


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

Brock's truck is effin AWESOME!!! i wants!


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

JuggNuttz said:


> Brock's truck is effin AWESOME!!! i wants!


Why am I not surprised this came from you?


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Brock's beard only solidifies my resolve that he will win this fight in dominant fashion.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

I don't see how Cain doesn't totally tool Lesnar standing up.

He looks a hundred times crisper striking. The wrestling and ground game is another issue. But it is Cain's base.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Iuanes said:


> I don't see how Cain doesn't totally tool Lesnar standing up.
> 
> He looks a hundred times crisper striking. The wrestling and ground game is another issue. But it is Cain's base.


Gotta remember Brock took`s Carwin`s bombs while A strong breeze from Kongo seemed to send Cain reeling. Sometimes striking doesn`t have to be pretty to be effective. You also gotta remember that Carwin is the only guy that Brock has fought that he didn`t drop with a punch.


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

Toxic said:


> Why am I not surprised this came from you?


cuz im partial ******* too? c'mon!? how can you hate a jacked up big truck? if i had the money id jack mine up too and throw some big ass tires on it, loud exhaust..... gun rack too but chicago looks down on that part....


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Yep. But I don't think its necessarily going to be one punch that would do Lesnar in and I don't think that's what Cain's going for. It looks like he wants to go 4-5 rounds.

And sure, Cain has been rocked, just like Lesnar, but not finished, and that was the only fight it happened.

Striking doesn't have to be pretty, but technique allows you to more efficient with power, more precise and avoid danger.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

JuggNuttz said:


> cuz im partial ******* too? c'mon!? how can you hate a jacked up big truck? if i had the money id jack mine up too and throw some big ass tires on it, loud exhaust..... gun rack too but chicago looks down on that part....


Why would I hate a jacked up truck? I used to have an 04 F-350 Crew Cab with a 9 inch lift. Really a shitty daily driver in town though. Try parking that thing at the mall.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

i honestly dont care how much Brock lifts or how many reps/situps, ropey thingy stuff he can do.


show me if he is learning real skills, if he isnt, its gonna be a much shorter night than expected.

Toxic, you will honestly feel ashamed of those words in a few weeks IMO. Brock didnt take anything from Carwin but a glancing uppercut and he ran.

He wanted to stand with Mir too in the 2nd fight, 2nd round, but he got punched in the face again and kind of panic'ed and then ate that big knee.


You are backing the wrong guy and certainly the wrong chin.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Gotta remember Brock took`s Carwin`s bombs while A strong breeze from Kongo seemed to send Cain reeling. Sometimes striking doesn`t have to be pretty to be effective. You also gotta remember that Carwin is the only guy that Brock has fought that he didn`t drop with a punch.


The first shot kongo dropped cain with was flush straight on the jaw. the second was along the temple.












The only real flush shot carwin landed on brock was the elbow


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

man. seriously, im getting overconfident after watching that show..... imma prob bet more..... geez....... the only thing worse than thinking you are gonna lose is being sure you are gonna win lol

I just dont see how Lesnar will stand with Cain. He is a Fing robot standing and Cain is getting so good, he will be forced to shoot early and often and Cain will be expecting that.

Lesnar doesnt know what to expect from Cain, neither do i.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> i honestly dont care how much Brock lifts or how many reps/situps, ropey thingy stuff he can do.
> 
> 
> show me if he is learning real skills, if he isnt, its gonna be a much shorter night than expected.
> ...


No, sir. It is you who will eat YOUR words. And there'll be no condiments provided which might mask the bitter taste as you swallow them one by one. Lesnar won't just win this fight. He'll dominate it. Be it on the feet or on the ground. Enjoy these final few weeks of unbridled optimism. For they will be your last.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> i honestly dont care how much Brock lifts or how many reps/situps, ropey thingy stuff he can do.
> 
> 
> show me if he is learning real skills, if he isnt, its gonna be a much shorter night than expected.
> ...


So are you alizo from the near past or what?


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> No, sir. It is you who will eat YOUR words. And there'll be no condiments provided which might mask the bitter taste as you swallow them one by one. Lesnar won't just win this fight. He'll dominate it. Be it on the feet or on the ground. Enjoy these final few weeks of unbridled optimism. For they will be your last.


 hey, if that weight lifting display didnt convince me of Brocks MMA superiority, nothing will, i must be a fool!!!


Im collecting $ and sigs on the 23rd, feel free to donate either.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> hey, if that weight lifting display didnt convince me of Brocks MMA superiority, nothing will, i must be a fool!!!
> 
> 
> Im collecting $ and sigs on the 23rd, feel free to donate either.


In the only slightly altered words of Shang Tsung... your sig... is mine!


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> I just dont see how Lesnar will stand with Cain. He is a Fing robot standing and Cain is getting so good, he will be forced to shoot early and often and Cain will be expecting that.


Lesnar doesn't need to stand with Cain...

Don't get too overconfident. This is one fight I will definitely be betting light on.


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## NotDylan (Jul 13, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> He'll dominate it. *Be it on the feet* or on the ground.


:confused02: Troll attempt? (I hope)


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> In the only slightly altered words of Shang Tsung... your sig... is mine!


 ok, sounds like a deal.

choose how long you wanna rock my sig for??? 1 month?? 3 months?? a year?? its your account 


and yes, Brock will need to stand with Cain, telegraphed TDs from a mile away wont get the job done vs Randy, Carwin and they surely wont get the job done vs Cain who has better footwork and speed to go with wrestling many consider the best in MMA, technique wise. 


Brock will need to set up his TDs, he will need to find a way to get close to Cain because i guarantee he cant Mir or Herring style TD Cain, he is much too good a wrestler.

If Brock is uncomfortable getting hit by Mir or Carwin with glancing shots, how will he feel vs Cain who has much more technique and handspeed??

It wasnt the power that made Lesnar runaway, it wasnt a huge shot, he looks away when he gets hit. Vs Carwin he literally covered up not looking and then ran away not looking. Cain can hit at least as hard as a glancing Carwin uppercut. He isnt made of paper mache.


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## The Amarok (May 4, 2010)

After watching this Primetime I must say that Lesnar didn't learn a ******* thing from his fight with Carwin. Tbh, Lesnar part of the Primetime looks the same as his Primetime with Carwin and Mir (but with a cool beard). Cain's striking is scary good and his wrestling is improving. I see Cain picking Lesnar apart and eventually pulling the trigger in the 2nd round. Brock is gonna come out in his same low wrestling stance with open hands to catch any strike and counter to a takedown. Same ol shit that is fairly easy to catch on to. Brock is a good fighter but not all that impressive imo.
Another thing that is straight pissing me off is everyone saying "Look at how lifts those weights. He is SOOOO big and Cain is gonna get destroyed". Look, I respect other people's opinons, but when they give me that asinine "He wins cuz he bigger" bullshit, I cant help but get irratated. People make it seem like the only way to be a sucessfull HW is to be Super Big and a Good Grappler. People need to understand that size is a curse and a blessing. Brock is gonna be slower and have less gas. Think about it. It takes alot of blood to pump those muscles and no amount of training can increse your vital organ function. Everyone know the reason Lensar won aganist Carwin is because Carwin didnt pace himself. 
I d plan to be a Pro MMA fighter in the future, but I WILL BE DAMNED if im Lesnar's size. That causes more problems then I need. Size isnt everthing. Technique > Muscle
I can bring up several fights were the Big musculer guy gets tooled by the more technical guy, but I will save that for another thread.
The reason I see Cain winning this because he has more tools to win this fight then Brock.
My Pick: Cain Velasquez 2nd round TKO


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> hey, if that weight lifting display didnt convince me of Brocks MMA superiority, nothing will, i must be a fool!!!
> 
> 
> Im collecting $ and sigs on the 23rd, feel free to donate either.


ill take it, you will be rocking a sig that says "Brock is my Hero! And I got sodomised by the Reverend!"
how ever long you wanna rock it, with a min of 1 month. its better then what you got now... i mean there are many other weight classes besides heavy weight that deserve some support too!


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## Coosh (Sep 25, 2009)

Saw some cool techniques by Brock

Gifs?


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

I think everyone with at least training experience with MMA must see that Cain is better fighter.

Im totally on his hypetrain. Since Kongo fight and he is still impressing me more and more.. The fight with Big Nog was off the charts.

I hope that he will set new direction in HW division. So no more be biggest and strongest


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## cisco2403 (Apr 12, 2010)

Cain isn't giving Brock any respect just like most people. The guy is more than just size and strength. He doesn't have that good of striking but come on, he has been able to beat everyone put in his path regardless of how skilled or experienced they were over him. Carwin hit him with some bombs and still couldn't put him away. I can't believe people are so confident Cain is going to win.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> ok, sounds like a deal.
> 
> choose how long you wanna rock my sig for??? 1 month?? 3 months?? a year?? its your account


One month sounds about right, though it is you whom will be doing the 'rocking'. We'll hash out the details as time draws nearer. Needless to say, my selection for you will involve Velasquez and a not too subtle message about beans.

Brock doesn't get respect, Cisco. He keeps on winning... and FINISHING... in impressive fashion, but still no respect. Every person he fights is allegedly the man to beat him. Yet here we are, all these years later. Cain will prove no different.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Brock will man handle Cain. Brock has been training like this since he joined MMA, and it has paid off for him, has it not? 

I am sure we will see more training in different aspects while the show goes on, it wont just be 90 minutes of Brock lifting weights. 

How else would he learn that submission? by lifting weights right?


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

I dont want to get overconfident here because at the end of the day this is just a prime time show and not a proper training/sparring documentary, but if thats how Brocks training and preparing for this fight......hes going to lose badly. 

I just cant wait to see Cain back in the octagon again, i was blown away by the nog fight, i have no idea how crazy good his skills will look when hes in there on October 23rd. Cain just seems to be improving by huge leaps and bounds every fight where as Brock.....im seeing minor if not any improvements to his game.

Man, i cant wait. So hyped for this fight.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I wonder if Lesnar is just playing the Primetime show smart? Cain is showing off his technique and his trainging regiment, Lesnar is just showing off a workout. One of them is giving up useful and the other is not. Either Lesnar is not preparing correctly, or is playing it very smart.

Also as a note to all of this, UFC/Spike does the editing of the video's, so maybe they figure people just want to see Lesnar lift huge weights because it is impressive?


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

cdtcpl said:


> I wonder if Lesnar is just playing the Primetime show smart? Cain is showing off his technique and his trainging regiment, Lesnar is just showing off a workout. One of them is giving up useful and the other is not. Either Lesnar is not preparing correctly, or is playing it very smart.
> 
> Also as a note to all of this, UFC/Spike does the editing of the video's, so maybe they figure people just want to see *Lesnar lift huge weights because it is impressive?*


Impressive for a weight lifting contest, not MMA. I doubt Lesnar is playing the show smart. In all of the count down shows and what not we have pretty much seen the same thing from Lesnars training hype videos. Wrassling, wrassling, weight lifting and wrassling. This prime time show was no different. Thats all you see because thats all Brock brings to his fights, wrestling, strength and power.

I think Brock is getting TKO'd earlier than i expected here. People continue to underestimate Cains punching power and over hype Brocks chin and it will be their downfall.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

It is hysterical that anyone takes anything away from these shows in terms of training. Yea, I'm sure Lesnar just lifts weights...I mean if thats all he did on this half hour primetime show, then I guess he does that 24/7 for 4 months straight.

Get outta here...


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## _JB_ (May 30, 2007)

http://www.megavideo.com/?v=1ZWH9HBK


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Lesnars whole village mentality is so contradictory. We get little old folk, talking about farm work, God, humbleness and good old fashion values. BUT. They are talking about a huge man with a knuckle-duster/rambo blade on his chest, working out of a gym called "Death Clutch" which is adorned with images of death and demons.

What. The. Feck. ?


Anyhoo... Once again, Primetime manages to get the MMA community declaring various outcomes... based on an edited 20 minutes of a TV show.

I know Cain will win based on his fights and nothing else. Strip away Lesnars hype and looking at just his performances in the cage, I don't get where all this confidence is coming from.

Come fight night, after Lesnar shoots a couple of times and realises Cains centre of gravity is probably between his thighs... its gonna be a shock. Brocks Centre is in the middle of his cock chest from the look of his proportions. I predict Cain will get Lesnar down easy peasy. That much I'm confident of.


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## Matt Singh (Oct 7, 2010)

How people can _still_ be so quickly dismissive of Lesnar is beyond me; those people said the same of the Herring fight, the Couture fight, the second Mir fight and then the Carwin fight (although to be fair Carwin was close to stopping Lesnar). Ironically though, having said that I _do_think this is Lesnar's toughest test to date, aside from maybe the first Mir fight and even then Lesnar was dominating until he go carried away, I don't see the guy making that same mistake ever again (as he showed in the second Mir fight).


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Matt Singh said:


> How people can _still_ be so quickly dismissive of Lesnar is beyond me; those people said the same of the Herring fight, the Couture fight, the second Mir fight and then the Carwin fight (although to be fair Carwin was close to stopping Lesnar). Ironically though, having said that I _do_think this is Lesnar's toughest test to date, aside from maybe the first Mir fight and even then Lesnar was dominating until he go carried away, I don't see the guy making that same mistake ever again (as he showed in the second Mir fight).


Not always the case. I fancied Brock against all his previous opponents. I like the guy. He brings interesting problems to his opponent. He also makes me laugh. But, hes come up against a dude I love to watch and simply will never bet against.

Blah blah blah... what I meant to say is, welcome!


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Just watched primetime and they are really starting to put some good music on it.

rampage/evans one they had 
"voodoo child" and this one they had "run through the jungle"

awesome


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Impressive for a weight lifting contest, not MMA. I doubt Lesnar is playing the show smart. In all of the count down shows and what not we have pretty much seen the same thing from Lesnars training hype videos. Wrassling, wrassling, weight lifting and wrassling. This prime time show was no different. Thats all you see because thats all Brock brings to his fights, wrestling, strength and power.
> 
> I think Brock is getting TKO'd earlier than i expected here. *People continue to underestimate Cains punching power and over hype Brocks chin and it will be their downfall.*


Based on what? Cain`s inability to finish Kongo who had no answer for anything Velasquez was attempting what so ever. I mean Kongo was only slightly more aggressive than a punching bag and yet was still perfectly fine after 14 and a half minutes of Cain`s GnP. Or maybe we should point out that Rothwell didn`t have a mark on him and was actually getting up when the fight was stopped. No lets get into what is really being exaggerated. Cain`s power. He couldn`t hurt Rothwell or Kongo he may have overwhelmed them with sure volume but neither guy was taking a real beating. Lesnar took a real beating from Carwin and unlike Kongo Carwin is a guy who has put out practically everyone he has fought with one punch. Carwin is the epitome of one punch knock out power in the UFC. Cain does not have that kind of power. Cain has skills but he is not athletically Brocks equal and size does matter. Same with GSP vs Penn 2, BJ has incredible skills but size and pure athleticism were far to much for him to overcome. I look forward to this fight I think Lesnar will smash Velasquez and then Cain will do what he should have been doing before trying to drop some weight and go and dominate at 205. Velasquez is around the same size as guys like Rampage and Forrest so 205 is something he can probably do, If you don`t believe me look.









Cain will be somewhere between Randy Couture and Mir in the first Lesnar fight size wise and it won`t be enough.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

when has Kongo been TKO'D?? U making it sound like he is easy to finish.

funny you say Kongo didnt take a beating?? watch the end of the fight, the guy could barely stand up.


or watch his interview where he says "Cain gave me the beating of my career" lol


but i guess cuz u say it didnt hurt and it wasnt a beating, w e should take ur words over the actual guy getting the beating?? or the fact he could barely stand up at the end of the fight.

sad you putting so much emphasis on punching power.... something Cain has more of than Lesnar. Knocking ppl down doesnt = punching power, knocking them out does.

Lesnar knocked a few ppl off balance but he never rocked them with punches, minus Randy who he simply clipped behind the ear, it was placement more than power.

but then again, most ppl who have trained boxing know that already.

its completely obvious to anybody that trains for a little bit who is the more complete, faster, better trained fighter. 

It would literally take less than 5 min of watching them train to figure it out.

It will prob take less than 5 min to figure out on the 23rd who is way better. I expect us to see a vast difference in skill and speed from the opening bell.

Ppl picking Lesnar will feel like ppl that picked Herring vs Fedor back the day.... you wont hear from them anymore


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## Matt Singh (Oct 7, 2010)

I hear your point Soojooko, I too think Cain has a darn good chance of beating Lesnar, it's just that some (if not most) hardcore MMA fans are quick to dismiss the guy, mainly because of his dirty pro wrestling background. Whenever I come across that sentiment I always point out that Sakuraba, Shamrock, Alexander Otsuka and numerous others were either in pro wrestling before MMA, or dabbled in it later. Soojooko, you appear to be one of the few hardcores that actually deal in reason and rationale when it comes it Lesnar

Oh, and thanks for the welcome, very kind of you:thumb02:


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

id like to say i bet on Lesnar vs Randy, Mir and at the lsat second i bet against him vs Carwin (blah, peer pressure).

im not picking against him cuz i hate him, infact i think he brought some personality and mainstream love to the UFC HW division.


Im picking against him cuz he is facing the best fighter in the world, who only gets much better everytime we see him.

Im picking against him cuz i would pick against anybody unfortunate enough to have to fight Cain Velasquez. 

He wont lose for along time and he will have that belt for years and years.

This is just the beginning.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Based on what? Cain`s inability to finish Kongo who had no answer for anything Velasquez was attempting what so ever. I mean Kongo was only slightly more aggressive than a punching bag and yet was still perfectly fine after 14 and a half minutes of Cain`s GnP. Or maybe we should point out that Rothwell didn`t have a mark on him and was actually getting up when the fight was stopped. No lets get into what is really being exaggerated. Cain`s power. He couldn`t hurt Rothwell or Kongo he may have overwhelmed them with sure volume but neither guy was taking a real beating. Lesnar took a real beating from Carwin and unlike Kongo Carwin is a guy who has put out practically everyone he has fought with one punch. Carwin is the epitome of one punch knock out power in the UFC. Cain does not have that kind of power. Cain has skills but he is not athletically Brocks equal and size does matter. Same with GSP vs Penn 2, BJ has incredible skills but size and pure athleticism were far to much for him to overcome. I look forward to this fight I think Lesnar will smash Velasquez and then Cain will do what he should have been doing before trying to drop some weight and go and dominate at 205. Velasquez is around the same size as guys like Rampage and Forrest so 205 is something he can probably do, If you don`t believe me look.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Rothwell took a major beating, he had nothing left after the first round beating he received. he wasn't knocked out by any means when azzagatti stopped it but cain just would have kept doing the same thing all night.
http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Ben_Rothwell_vs_Cain_Velasquez_UFC_104?vid=10007413&tid=100


also brock couldn't hold down couture.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

this is for Toxic too just saying stuff that isnt true.


18:10 of the video is the end of the Kongo vs Velasquez fight. watch it and tell me Kongo didnt take a BEATING!! Tell me Cains GnP DIDNT hurt.

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Cain_Velasquez_vs_Cheick_Kongo_UFC_99_The_Comebac?vid=10005305

the man stumbles trying to get to his feet and falls down again like a Hockey Player who just got rocked by Scott Stevens back in the day.

that was a beating, in EVERY sense of the word. Kongo never felt a beating like that and i bet he doesnt want to again.

scary part is, Cain is much, much better now than he was vs Kongo. He sits on his punches more and gets a ton more power behind them and his subs are improved.

Im pretty sure he could sub Kongo with a choke, it was there all fight.

funny part is, you are saying Kongo didnt take a beating but Joe Rogans exact last words before the fight ended???


"Kongo is taking a beating" LOL

like to add, you would be hard pressed to find two tougher, more experienced beasts with better chins and more heart than Kongo and Rothwell.

I mean literally, 2 of the toughest HWs in the game today.

on the other hand, the only guy known for durability that Lesnar has fought, he couldnt finish either, Herring. Randy and Mir arent known for durablity (altho Randy used to be, but old man Handy def isnt) and Carwin we have so little fight time and he never went out the 1st, we really didnt know.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Based on what? Cain`s inability to finish Kongo who had no answer for anything Velasquez was attempting what so ever. I mean Kongo was only slightly more aggressive than a punching bag and yet was still perfectly fine after 14 and a half minutes of Cain`s GnP. Or maybe we should point out that Rothwell didn`t have a mark on him and was actually getting up when the fight was stopped. No lets get into what is really being exaggerated. Cain`s power. He couldn`t hurt Rothwell or Kongo he may have overwhelmed them with sure volume but neither guy was taking a real beating. Lesnar took a real beating from Carwin and unlike Kongo Carwin is a guy who has put out practically everyone he has fought with one punch. Carwin is the epitome of one punch knock out power in the UFC. Cain does not have that kind of power. Cain has skills but he is not athletically Brocks equal and size does matter. Same with GSP vs Penn 2, BJ has incredible skills but size and pure athleticism were far to much for him to overcome. I look forward to this fight I think Lesnar will smash Velasquez and then Cain will do what he should have been doing before trying to drop some weight and go and dominate at 205. Velasquez is around the same size as guys like Rampage and Forrest so 205 is something he can probably do, If you don`t believe me look.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Based on the fact that he KO'd Nog quickly and brutally in the first round. Cain obviously has decent punching power, ko'ing a man who has been stopped once in his entire career (when he was sick). His GNP didnt look too weak against Nog either, it looked violent in fact.

Rothwell was also getting battered, i agree the stoppage was premature but he was taking a one sided beating. Cain landed some significant GNP against Rothwell and was clearly hurting him (not at the point when the fight was stopped). Rothwell is also imo one of the toughest guys in the HW division, period. That man can take a ridiculous amount of punishment and still come out swinging. Not many can put big Ben away.

Cain will work angles and punching/kicking combinations at a speed that lensar has never had to deal with before. He doesnt load up on that one big punch like Carwin, but he has much more combinations, speed and much more technical skill than Carwin. You're fooling yourself if you think Cain cant TKO Brock, he doesnt have to knock Brock out with one punch. He can catch him with a flurry of punches, rock him and then finish him off, this is what im predicting. 

Cain doesnt need to cut to LHW. He has been fighting and wrestling at HW his entire life and is used to beating the crap out of the bigger man. This is one of the reasons i like Cain, he is the perfect example of skill and technique over coming size and strength. He doesnt care how big or strong Brock is, or how muscular any one is, he comes to fight.

GSP vs Penn isnt much of a comparison. GSP is a much more skilled, well rounded fighter than Brock


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Anyone who thinks Lesnar is simply lifting weights is delusional. One five minute montage counts as the whole of someone's training these days, does it? And with two shows left, who knows what remains to be seen. Again, however, assuming that all he does is lift weights is a bit daft. The man didn't submit Carwin via extensive dumbbell training. He didn't execute a perfect, yet intriguingly modified crucifix on Mir via daily squat thrusts. Not to sound insulting, but common sense people. Common sense.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

I think Brock is a complete beast but I really hope he's worked on his striking/Muay Thai and clinch game.

He doesn't like getting hit, but if he can clinch when an exchange doesn't go his way, he'd instantly have the advantage over most HW's. In the clinch he'd be too strong, and his short punches are brutal.

Add to that some basic Judo, and that's a really bad opponent for ANYBODY. Did see him do a leg sweep or two in the PrimeTime though...

All Brock needs to do is use his massive arms/shoulders to absorb punches, move forward not backward, and clinch. Brock is the least experienced striker of all the top HWs, but if he learnt these things he'd be more well rounded than people give him credit for.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

If Lesnar learned how to be a good striker he would be unbeatable.

His strength and wrestling alone was enough to become and defend the UFC HW title.


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

Anyone saw the double-jump-kick, or what is it called, by Cain, and notice that Brock's front tooth is half broken?


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Anyone who thinks Lesnar is simply lifting weights is delusional. One five minute montage counts as the whole of someone's training these days, does it? And with two shows left, who knows what remains to be seen. Again, however, assuming that all he does is lift weights is a bit daft. The man didn't submit Carwin via extensive dumbbell training. He didn't execute a perfect, yet intriguingly modified crucifix on Mir via daily squat thrusts. Not to sound insulting, but common sense people. Common sense.


Nah, you're wrong. He did. All Brock Lesnar has is strength. Everyone in the HW division would destroy him TBH, especially Cain, and JDS, oh, and Carwin in the rematch, and probably Mir in the 3rd fight between them, and Mostapha Al-Turk. Brock basically sucks, and has been gifted the HW title.


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

Gotta admit....Deathclutch training camp looks like a good place for heavyweights. I was a bit suprised to see Pat Barry


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## anth brown (Apr 27, 2008)

come off it, do you think he's purely training weights & wrestling

i suppose he just brought pat barry in to teach pat some tdd or takedowns & have a weight lifting competition with just for laughs

come off it

you will all see an improved brock come a few weeks time

his wrestling isnt purely the bull rush running tade downs we've seen either, you dont get the credentials he has by being 1 dimensional FFS


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

lets hope Brock improved his boxing


all that girth and mass can lead to a empty tank and sluggish punches


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

watch in in NCAA instead of just talking about his credentials then.

Brock was known for an amazingly powerful double leg and not much else.

the big double is his bread and butter, he isnt a technique based wrestler, even in pure wrestling matches.

Brock was behind Cain in technique just in pure wrestling. Nevermind other aspects of MMA. He makes up for it cuz his double leg is damn impressive and he is so strong.

Ppl dont mention this either, but Brock did....


Brock was never HS state champion in wrestling.

Cain was. 

Obv doesnt make him better, just an example how ppl improve, Brock was a bigtime late bloomer.

just like i cant say Brock is better cuz his NCAA record vs Cain either.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

If you still need proof Brock can take a punch you probably dont believe dinosaurs roamed the earth either. 

Personally I thought the shot that hurt Brock was similar to the punch Brock caught Randy with, I feel its somewhat silly to count out glancing blows as we have seen many a ko or tko because someone got caught behind the head or ear with some form of a hook. Remember all we are talking about is the brain touching the skull.

I think if Cain comes in and jumps on Brock it could be a rough fight for Brock but if he lets Brock get a feel for his speed and strength then I just think Brock will take him down and pound him out.

Brocks striking is not all that sexy, I still think Brock packs heavy hands and could get Cain in some trouble if he's not careful but for the most part I think you have to give the stand up game to Cain. 

Here is my issue, who has Brock faced that didn't know what his game plan was? They all knew he was coming to take them down and they all lost.

I think Cain is a excellent wrestler, I just dont think he's good enough to stop Brock from taking him down. I see Cain defending a few shots sprawl and brawl style but if he gets took down he's in trouble, once Brock gets top position he's dangerous and just about impossible to shake off.

I think Cain needs to get to Brock early, the longer the fight goes on the more opportunity Brock has to put Cain on his back and work him.

This is IMO the most dangerous fight Brock has had and probably the most dangerous fighter in the UFC. If Cain cant pull it off I really dont see another threat in the near future for Brock.

So slight edge goes to Brock IMO but Cain could win this standing if he plays his cards right.


E Lit Er Ate said:


> id like to say i bet on Lesnar vs Randy, Mir and at the lsat second i bet against him vs Carwin (blah, peer pressure).
> 
> im not picking against him cuz i hate him, infact i think he brought some personality and mainstream love to the UFC HW division.
> 
> ...


Sounds slightly familiar to what we were told about the "Lyoto Machida era" win or lose Cain wont hold the belt for some extravagant length of time nor will Brock ...


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

slapshot said:


> If you still need proof Brock can take a punch you probably dont believe dinosaurs roamed the earth either.
> 
> Personally I thought the shot that hurt Brock was similar to the punch Brock caught Randy with, I feel its somewhat silly to count out glancing blows as we have seen many a ko or tko because someone got caught behind the head or ear with some form of a hook. Remember all we are talking about is the brain touching the skull.
> 
> ...


Good post, but i dont agree with the bolded. Couture managed to shake Brock off quite easily when he got taken down. If Randy can get back to his feet after Brock smothering him, im certain Cain can.

Cain is going to be the most aggressive fighter Brock has faced to date also. In all of his fights, cain comes out right off the bat and attacks, will be interesting to see how Brock deals with it.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Everyone is talking about Cain`s gas tank and how because of Lesnar`s size he will gas but everyone is forgetting he went 3 rounds with Herring and barely looked like he broke a sweat. I think if Cain is waiting for Brock to gas he is gonna be still waiting when the 25 minutes are up.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Everyone is talking about Cain`s gas tank and how because of Lesnar`s size he will gas but everyone is forgetting he went 3 rounds with Herring and barely looked like he broke a sweat. I think if Cain is waiting for Brock to gas he is gonna be still waiting when the 25 minutes are up.


Yeah, I agree he cant out cardio him like that but he dose need to outwork him and I can see him being able to do that striking if he can keep it there.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

To me the only chance Cain has if he can stick and move, Lesnar has to much power to stand and trade with him but Cain is more mobile and a better technical striker so to me his only chance is to stick and move keep mobile and maintain distance. Jab Jab and Jab all night long.


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## The Amarok (May 4, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Everyone is talking about Cain`s gas tank and how because of Lesnar`s size he will gas but everyone is forgetting he went 3 rounds with Herring and barely looked like he broke a sweat. I think if Cain is waiting for Brock to gas he is gonna be still waiting when the 25 minutes are up.


You do realize the Brock wasn't even going full speed that fight. Everyone knows that Brock could have finished Herring whenever he wanted but he wanted to show that he can go 5 rounds. 
Its not that impressive when your toying with a outta shape, outta prime Herring. Brock wasnt even trying.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Toxic said:


> To me the only chance Cain has if he can stick and move, Lesnar has to much power to stand and trade with him but Cain is more mobile and a better technical striker so to me his only chance is to stick and move keep mobile and maintain distance. Jab Jab and Jab all night long.


Cain wont be jab, jab. jabbing his way to a decision. He will be jabbing, throwing hooks, combinations, leg kicks, body kicks and head kicks. He's also likely to take Brock down.


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## The Amarok (May 4, 2010)

Another thing people dont take into account is that Brock fights flat-footed. That cuts down speed drastically. He fights with his hands open and out trying to grab on to a leg. To put it midly, if Cain fights like Edgar (but with alittle more power behide his shot), Brock is in for a short night.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Everyone is talking about Cain`s gas tank and how because of Lesnar`s size he will gas but everyone is forgetting he went 3 rounds with Herring and barely looked like he broke a sweat. I think if Cain is waiting for Brock to gas he is gonna be still waiting when the 25 minutes are up.


 i wouldnt break a sweat either if i moved at that pace and only threw 34 strikes total in the 3rd round.


Talk to me when Brock moves like Cain with the constant passing and throws over 130 strikes EACH round. Not to mention he got blasted by Kongo a few times that fight.... didnt slow down his pace at all.

Then we will talk about cardio.

Im totally banking on Cain having better cardio and being the faster fighter.

If one of those things isnt true, it will be evident and i will be out a bunch of $ (and some sigs). I just dont see how it cant be true, ive watched them both very closely, fighting and training.

Cain is obviously the much faster fighter. I have no doubt. The cardio thing, we will see, i will give Brock supporters the benefit that he faced some elite wrestlers in MMA, while Cain hasnt. Will that effect Cains cardio if he has to grapple Lesnar??

we will see, i dont think he wants it a grappling match and i believe he has the ability to stop that from happening for extended periods.... but if it does. we will truely find out where his cardio is.


All i know is 2nd round, Brock and Shane came out, and just looked at each other.... stood there..... no head movement.... no bounce in their steps.... they just stood there.......

Cain wont do that.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

How come people question Cain's chin because he almost got dropped by Kongo? Kongo doesn't have 1 punch KO power but he landed completely flush on Cain's chin, making his head snap, and only got rocked. Does a fighter have to be unaffected by any punch to be considered as having a decent chin? That punch from Kongo would have folded some fighters, in fact in the past it has. Cain took one that was so flush on the chin it would have hurt any fighter, and still continued to make Kongo look bad.

As far as Cain's power goes, he's not got natural KO power. However against Nog he planted his feet and used solid boxing technique to generate some serious power in his hooks. If he trades with Lesnar like that and lands, Lesnar will be backing off. 

I expect Cain to come out and try to disable Brock with endless leg kicks. Brock is very flat footed and if Cain can make him limp he could take him out. The challenge is doing that without the biggest and best wrestler in the division taking him down. It will be interesting to watch, both of them are relatively inexperienced and unproven, so who knows what will happen. My money's on Cain, I think he's the better fighter and his only real obstacle is Brock's size. Even if Brock gets him down, I think he can survive and even get up. If he can keep it standing for 3 rounds he can get a decision. If not, he'll lose a decision.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Toxic said:


> To me the only chance Cain has if he can stick and move, Lesnar has to much power to stand and trade with him but Cain is more mobile and a better technical striker so to me his only chance is to stick and move keep mobile and maintain distance. Jab Jab and Jab all night long.


if you watch his fight with randy you will notice he was beginning to gas when he koed randy. randy kept him busy and worked well in the clinch unlike heath. however brock may have improved his gas tank 

its no mystery that big guys gas. it will just depend on who can control the pace. if brock can take him down and lay on top of him or put him against the cage then brock takes it. If cain can work the clinch and put him up against the cage then brock could gas and cain will be the next champ.

I see brock taking this. If he trains with randy again he will get some great work in the clinch and could control cain. Brock can take a punch as well obviously and has the size advantage as well.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> i wouldnt break a sweat either if i moved at that pace and only threw 34 strikes total in the 3rd round.
> 
> 
> Talk to me when Brock moves like Cain with the constant passing and throws over 130 strikes EACH round. Not to mention he got blasted by Kongo a few times that fight.... didnt slow down his pace at all.
> ...


You can throw a thousand strikes if they are as threatening as a gaggle of baby geese. Cain`s ground and pound is all about volume but nothing about power. You can compare Cain and Carwin all day long but Cain can not do what Carwin did, he does not have the size strength or power. That is what enabled Carwin to put Lesnar in trouble. When it comes to how he matches up with Lesnar Cain has far more in common with Couture than he does Carwin. He may be faster and have better technique but he will be to small and to weak. This isn`t 5 years ago when the big HW`s were lumbering oafs like Tim Sylvia, Lesnar has some skills to go along with the good 40 pounds of muscle that he has over Cain and Lesnar is freakishly fast and agile for a guy that size.


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## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

The Amarok said:


> You do realize the Brock wasn't even going full speed that fight. Everyone knows that Brock could have finished Herring whenever he wanted but he wanted to show that he can go 5 rounds.
> Its not that impressive when your toying with a outta shape, outta prime Herring. Brock wasnt even trying.


Herring is more impressive than all of Cain's opponent's other than Nog.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Carwin's strikes are thrown on average with more power even his jabs. IMO Cain might be able to coax Brock into standing, after taking a few shots he might think I can hang. I hope not because Cain dose have power in his hands and his boxing has looked better than Brocks. 


Every fight Brock has the haters come out in droves and explain away his wins and try to cut him down. I think its kind of ignorant.


Who has better cardio? till the fight I think you have to call it a Tie, its not only a wash because both men are in top shape but more importantly both men have been rocked and showed they could recover and resume at the same pace they left off with. Some, most, hell almost all people get rocked and their stamina goes right out the window.




leifdawg said:


> Herring is more impressive than all of Cain's opponent's other than Nog.


To be fair Jake O'Brien beat Herring so that probibly wont wash but I dont think anyone _reasonable_ would try to state Cain's had a higher level of competition than Brock.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

leifdawg said:


> Herring is more impressive than all of Cain's opponent's other than Nog.


 Herring and Kongo had a pretty close match that was a SD, i would call them even then but its obv who is better now....


Rothwell would tear Herring up, no doubt.


As for Cains power, Toxic u are underestimating it. He doesnt look for big power but he has it. When he sat on his punches vs Nog we all saw the result.

He has 7 TKOs in 8 fights.

I seriously have never seen a fighter with that kind of finishing percentage questioned as much as Cain is.

Must be cuz he is almost a complete fighter already, 8 fights into his career. ppl trying to nitpick.

Ill take the guy who TKOs everybody but has no power 

you severely overrate Brock. Acting like really big one dimensional wrestlers are the future of MMA. They are actually the past, it didnt work great then for long periods and it wont work now.

Ive never seen a champion who reacts to getting hit as badly as Brock, yet you laud his chin cuz he took a glancing shot and ran away like a child?? lol

btw, he wont have 40 pounds of muscle, maybe 25 max. Brock doesnt cut to 265 anymore, he realizes being bigger doesnt = better. Frank Mir did too.

now his fans should too.


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## cisco2403 (Apr 12, 2010)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> Herring and Kongo had a pretty close match that was a SD, i would call them even then but its obv who is better now....
> 
> 
> Rothwell would tear Herring up, no doubt.
> ...


Rothwell would tear Herring up? Herring has never been impressive either but what has Rothwell done to warrant that statement besides prepping up Cain's opponents?


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

Rothwell is super underrated. he beat Yvel on a torn ACL.


He beat Roy Nelson and was on on kind 14 wins in his last 15 fights when he fought Cain.

Rothwell is legit, he is better than Herring, which is why he will continue fighting now and Herring is all done.

I dont see how so many UFC fans think Roy Nelson is legit top 5 HW in the UFC but Rothwell is some bum??

Both Nelson and Rothwell would beat Herring imo.

Dont forget, Herring was 3-3 in his last 6 leading up to his fight with Lesnar. His only good win being that SD (i thot Kongo won) and the other 2 wins over top guys such as Brad imes and Gary Goodridge. Sprinkled with a loss to Jake O'Brian (a "can" that Cain whooped with a crucfix very easily) and Sam Greco.

Yep. i would say with alot of confident that Big Ben would beat Herring.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

cisco2403 said:


> Rothwell would tear Herring up? Herring has never been impressive either but what has Rothwell done to warrant that statement besides prepping up Cain's opponents?


lol you obviously havnt watched many of Rothwells fights or looked at his resume. Rothwell imo is one of, if not the toughest HW out there, he is a beast. He would smash herring.

Id like his chances against some one like Carwin too. Infact, my money would definitely be on Rothwell if that fight happens.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Well/
i just watched Primetime 1st episode for the first time.
Some remarks:
-about Lesnar: "he is the most dominant force in the UFC" - False - that's GSP
-about Cain: "maybe he has the best gas tank in the UFC" - False - that's GSP ... also

OK. I know i'm writing kinda late, but.
First impression. After i saw Cain in action in his gym, i was like: WHOO! this guy is gonna win. Look at him: fast, athletic, unlimited energy, better boxer than Brock, great wrestler. How can he not win this?!!
Then i saw Brock: what a "mountain of human being"! Such power, also great energy, excellent wrestling and....WHAT POWER! How can he not win this?!!

I've read this thread and it contains excellent arguments, wich could make a case for both fighters. One department they are equal is heart and mental strength: both of them came back after being in serious trouble (Kongo and Carwin!).
Mentioning their old fights is fine, but sometimes it's not that relevant, because fighters evolve, some more than other: some get better than other, some evolve and some don't. In this case for both of them it has been the case of just going UP, getting better.

I'll try and put it as simple as i can: i give Cain the advantage in ring movement, striking and BJJ.
Brock has the clear size and power advantage and the advantage in wrestling (not by much), when it comes to ground control, but i'll give him that mainly because of his size. 

It might seem a difficult fight to call or a simple fight to call. It depends on who is doing the predictions. 
I see Cain taking this easily if he tags Brock like he did with Nogueira. He will finnish it if he tags Brock and sends him down! I have no doubt!
But if Brock can take Cain down and put his "mountain size body" on top of Cain, he might do to him the same thing he did to Mir.

Maybe episode 2 will reveal more.

PS: do they have the same truck model?!


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Where can I watch this online?


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

limba said:


> Well/
> i just watched Primetime 1st episode for the first time.
> Some remarks:
> -about Lesnar: "he is the most dominant force in the UFC" - False - that's GSP
> ...


 +rep, good post.

how many HWs can do switch kicks that end with head kicks?? ppl talk about Brocks athletism but i think they are really missing the boat on Cains.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> Where can I watch this online?


http://www.megavideo.com/?v=9YYG06SQ


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

limba said:


> Well/
> i just watched Primetime 1st episode for the first time.
> Some remarks:
> -about Lesnar: "he is the most dominant force in the UFC" - False - that's GSP
> ...


What do you use for a basis to state Cain has better BJJ? I mean he has shown zero in the UFC while at least Lesnar submitted Carwin. We have never seen Cain`s BJJ either offensively or defensively so to give him any so called advantage there is completely baseless.



E Lit Er Ate said:


> +rep, good post.
> 
> how many HWs can do switch kicks that end with head kicks?? ppl talk about Brocks athletism but i think they are really missing the boat on Cains.


Cain has not shown any freakish athletic ability. Brock has numbers to back up the fact he is an athletic freak.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Woooooooow.

I am so amped for this event it's crazy. 

That was one of the best countdown shows I've ever seen. 

I'm a little worried that Brock's not working on his standup more, or so it seems. Maybe we'll see more of that in later installments.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Toxic said:


> What do you use for a basis to state Cain has better BJJ? I mean he has shown zero in the UFC while at least Lesnar submitted Carwin. We have never seen Cain`s BJJ either offensively or defensively so to give him any so called advantage there is completely baseless.
> 
> 
> Cain has not shown any freakish athletic ability. Brock has numbers to back up the fact he is an athletic freak.


I think E lit already answered your question. How many HW's can do switch kicks that end with a head kick? I know for a fact you wouldnt catch Brock doing that, or even throwing a single head kick.

Cain is obviously a great athlete, so is Brock. BJ Penn doesn't look like any thing special, yet hes a freakishly talented athlete.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> Herring and Kongo had a pretty close match that was a SD, i would call them even then but its obv who is better now....
> 
> 
> Rothwell would tear Herring up, no doubt.
> ...





Mckeever said:


> lol you obviously havnt watched many of Rothwells fights or looked at his resume. Rothwell imo is one of, if not the toughest HW out there, he is a beast. He would smash herring.
> 
> Id like his chances against some one like Carwin too. Infact, my money would definitely be on Rothwell if that fight happens.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Cain easily wins this. I can't believe that people don't realize the only thing Brock has on Cain is size and power. Carwin with less impressive wrestling than Brock was able to stuff the td's until Carwin gassed. I believe Cain has better wrestling than Brock, but that's up for debate. Either way it's good enough to stop the td's. Cain wins everywhere else. I personally can't wait until this fight shuts a lot of very annoying Brock fans up.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Toxic said:


> What do you use for a basis to state Cain has better BJJ? I mean he has shown zero in the UFC while at least Lesnar submitted Carwin. We have never seen Cain`s BJJ either offensively or defensively so to give him any so called advantage there is completely baseless.


You are right.
We haven't seen any of Cain's Jiu Jitsu yet.
My argument is Brock's BJJ is poor. I don't care that he submitted a tired and gassed Carwin.
I will take Dave Camarillo's word when he says Cain has better Jiu Jitsu than Brock. Plus he has a purple belt in BJJ under Camarillo.
But i wanna mention, i am talking about PURE BJJ. 

When it comes to controlling your opponent on the ground i would give Brock the advantage, because of his massive size and strength. I mean he controlled Mir on the ground, with such ease, that his world class jiu-jitsu equaled Zero.

Maybe it sounds like i am contradicting myself. I know ground control is extremly important in BJJ, and Brock knows how to do that.
But when it comes to BJJ technique and knowledge, i think Cain has the edge.

Doesn't mean Brock can't sub him though.
We can only wait and see.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

slapshot said:


>


You think rothwell sucks? He doesnt and hes as tough as nails.


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## cisco2403 (Apr 12, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> lol you obviously havnt watched many of Rothwells fights or looked at his resume. Rothwell imo is one of, if not the toughest HW out there, he is a beast. He would smash herring.
> 
> Id like his chances against some one like Carwin too. Infact, my money would definitely be on Rothwell if that fight happens.


I have seen plenty of his fights. I am not saying he would beat Herring or not, but smash? You make it seem as if it would be a man fighting a child. A smashing is what Brock Lesnar did to Herring.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

cisco2403 said:


> I have seen plenty of his fights. I am not saying he would beat Herring or not, but smash? You make it seem as if it would be a man fighting a child. A smashing is what Brock Lesnar did to Herring.


Ok, i over exaggerated with the smashing, but i believe he would comfortably beat Herring.

As for Brock, he definitely didnt smash Herring. Other than the early shot which sent herring rolling, there was no significant damage done by Brock in that fight. He was pretty much just controlling herring for 3 rounds. A one sided wrestling match.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Brock will struggle with his standup again. In that short installment, what little we saw of his boxing just does not seem fluid at all. 

The size difference is going to be overwhelming, however, and Cain's camp talk of how Brock's size will lead him to gas is simply wishful thinking. 

Brock took an awful beating in rd 1 against Carwin and was not winded at all come round 2. In fact, it was a nice little "rope 'n dope maneuver in retrospect. 

Brock will take it, but it will not be easy. In fact, things could get quite ugly. 

sidenote: anyone surprised at how calm and zen-buddhist-like Brock seemed in that video? What a difference.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> Brock will struggle with his standup again. In that short installment, what little we saw of his boxing just does not seem fluid at all.
> 
> The size difference is going to be overwhelming, however, and Cain's camp talk of how Brock's size will lead him to gas is simply wishful thinking.
> 
> ...


I disagree about him not gassing against Carwin. I thought he looked very gassed... Just less than Carwin who could barely stand.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Not really, he was light on his feet, then took down and submitted Carwin with ease.

Dude even jumped on the fence and danced around the octagon. He was not even close to being gassed. 

Brock is not your average garden variety 285 lb. monster with a 37" vertical, 4.7 40 and 900 lbs. squat.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> Not really, he was light on his feet, then took down and submitted Carwin with ease.
> 
> Dude even jumped on the fence and danced around the octagon. He was not even close to being gassed.
> 
> Brock is not your average garden variety 285 lb. monster with a 37" vertical, 4.7 40 and 900 lbs. squat.


Light on his feet? Both men were just standing there looking at each other, he was notably gassed.

Frankie Edgar could of took down Carwin in that state. Brock was also notably tiring in the Randy Couture fight.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

OMG, what a hater. 

You must be referring to the fight where Brock dropped Randy like a bad habit then was so gassed he only managed to throw about 40 hammerfists in 5 seconds. 

Regardless, Shane was finished with ease. Brock had it anyway he wanted.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> OMG, what a hater.
> 
> You must be referring to the fight where Brock dropped Randy like a bad habit then was so gassed he only managed to throw about 40 hammerfists in 5 seconds.
> 
> Regardless, Shane was finished with ease. Brock had it anyway he wanted.


Im not a hater, i like Brock, he cracks me up. Im just pointing out visible facts in the fights. hammerfists or not he was slowing down in that fight and he looked real tired in the Carwin fight. Cain doesnt slow down, dude's got cardio for days.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Your logic is shaky at best. 

Brock didn't "slow down" against Carwin: he was getting his ass handed to him in the first round, shook it off, then completely dominated. He came back completely unfazed and finished the fight with ease. 

You are confusing tactical intelligence with gassing. Brock isn't stupid enough to take crazy risks against championship caliber fighters. He finds an opening and once he does he finishes in brutal fashion. 

Seriously, if you think that a championship caliber fighter is "gassed" if they aren't jumping around like a monkey on crack, you are an idiot. 

By that definition, the only two fighters in the history of MMA who weren't "gassed" were Leonard Garcia and Korean Zombie.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> Your logic is shaky at best.
> 
> Brock didn't "slow down" against Carwin: he was getting his ass handed to him in the first round, shook it off, then completely dominated. He came back completely unfazed and finished the fight with ease.
> 
> ...


I have no idea what any of this post means. Completely baffled.


----------



## kickstar (Nov 12, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I disagree about him not gassing against Carwin. I thought he looked very gassed... Just less than Carwin who could barely stand.



+1..:thumbsup:


----------



## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Dude, you should really get that OCD treated, seriously. If you stalk people in real life the way you do online, I can't imagine how pathetic your situation is. 

List your city and I'd be happy to offer you a referral.


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Im not a hater, i like Brock, he cracks me up. Im just pointing out visible facts in the fights.


That you think youre pointing out facts makes me crack up. Well its not far off now so I guess we will see who's right and who's wrong soon.


----------



## kickstar (Nov 12, 2009)

Cain wil eat Brock for breakfast.:thumb02:


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

..and what happened in this fight afterwards? I'm still calling Brock Lesnar on this fight.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> Dude, you should really get that OCD treated, seriously. If you stalk people in real life the way you do online, I can't imagine how pathetic your situation is.
> 
> List your city and I'd be happy to offer you a referral.


lol are you high man? Seriously, wtf?!



slapshot said:


> That you think youre pointing out facts makes me crack up. Well its not far off now so I guess we will see who's right and who's wrong soon.


Well there is video evidence from both fights. When a fighter is either:

A) Breathing deep and heavy
B) Moving significantly slower

Its normally a good indication that the fighter is gassing.


----------



## kickstar (Nov 12, 2009)

Rauno said:


> ..and what happened in this fight afterwards? I'm still calling Brock Lesnar on this fight.


Shane was gassed, but Brock survive big beating, so that was raise01:...but i am just saying that in my opinion cain will win that fight..


----------



## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

Toxic said:


> What do you use for a basis to state Cain has better BJJ? I mean he has shown zero in the UFC while at least Lesnar submitted Carwin. We have never seen Cain`s BJJ either offensively or defensively so to give him any so called advantage there is completely baseless.
> 
> 
> Cain has not shown any freakish athletic ability. Brock has numbers to back up the fact he is an athletic freak.


 true cuz being a 240 man who was wrestling with 285 men and holding his own isnt freakish athletic ability.

Neither is Cains speed or those crazy kicks he can throw that i bet not many HWs can. Nope, no athletic freak here, its normal for 240 pounders to be as fast and have that kind of cardio.

Normal for a guy with 3 years training to be called the best student ever by Mendez?? A guy who trained Cung Le, Frank Shamrock and currently Kos and Fitch??

nah, average athlete with average skills.

and what numbers are you talking about?? How fast he runs?? How much he lifts??

well damn, if it becomes a lifting and running contest midway thru the 2nd, i bet Brock wins easy.

Thats like saying Pudz is a "freak athlete". Sure, but thats not MMA.

How about these numbers?? Cain lands more strikes, while getting hit the least.... in the HISTORY of MMA.

Cain has never lost a round. Has the 2nd highest striking percentage in the UFC and has never been LEGITLY taken down (we can argue all you want, TD = Control, Kongo had no control and got his back taken).

Those are some impressive numbers.

Not as impressive as lifting a certain amount of weight and running in a straight line in a certain time but hey, i need something to fall back on when my fighter isnt a "freak athlete"


----------



## InAweOfFedor (Aug 13, 2008)

You know what I don't mind who wins this one either.

I love both guys and I think no matter the outcome it will be a dramatic fight, it always is whenever either guy gets in the cage.

Props to the UFC for setting up another enthralling HW title match.

I'll be happy no matter who leaves as champ because I get to see the unique power and strength of Brock up against the non stop cardio and technique of Cain.

What two better styles to have clash in the cage... I can't wait!


----------



## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> true cuz being a 240 man who was wrestling with 285 men and holding his own isnt freakish athletic ability.
> 
> Neither is Cains speed or those crazy kicks he can throw that i bet not many HWs can. Nope, no athletic freak here, its normal for 240 pounders to be as fast and have that kind of cardio.
> 
> ...



WOW i never knew they had a collection of stats from EVERY mma promotion ever and Cain tops them all!!!!!! and id like to see some clarification on his striking accuracy pls....


seriously dude, GTFO your starting to look like an idiot. your making shit up and pretending they are facts.


and anyone who thinks Cain is gonna be throwing alot of kicks is stupid... no one throws alot of kicks against wrestlers, Rogan talks all the time of someone being afraid to throw kicks because of the takedowns off them. Cain will HAVE to box Brock, and stay on the outside the whole time. he wont want to make it a grappling match, Brock is too big and powerful.


----------



## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

JuggNuttz said:


> WOW i never knew they had a collection of stats from EVERY mma promotion ever and Cain tops them all!!!!!! and id like to see some clarification on his striking accuracy pls....
> 
> 
> seriously dude, GTFO your starting to look like an idiot. your making shit up and pretending they are facts.
> ...


 actually those are stats that have been kept.

the stat with Cains ratio of landing strikes to strikes land on him (7.3 to 1) is the highest in MMA history. I didnt make that up.

Cain being the 2nd most accurate striker currently in the UFC (behind Anderson Silva) is a fact (perhaps he moved positions, i saw the stat about 6 months ago on UFC.com so maybe ppl have passed him, but i doubt it and his hasnt changed cuz he hasnt fought in 8 months).


i like that you call me an idiot and say im making this stuff up, shows you as a knowledgeable and very polite fan.

Anybody who thinks Cain will throw kicks is stupid?? 

yea i know, cuz throwing kicks vs a guy with poor lateral movement who fights flat footed and you have a tremendous speed advantage over is a horrible idea....

hell, even Anderson threw some kicks vs Chael, i guess he is stupid too.

thx 4 extending your valuble MMA knowledge upon me as i just use actual fight stats to set up my arguements.

I didnt realize insulting was the proper way to get a point across, and calling somebody elses numbers made up when they didnt even do 2 min of research or they prob would have found several articles/sites/threads that state the same numbers.


Striking accuracy in the UFC

1. Anderson Silva
2. Cain Velasquez
3. Lyoto Machida


hell, they train together too.


----------



## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> actually those are stats that have been kept.
> 
> the stat with Cains ratio of landing strikes to strikes land on him (7.3 to 1) is the highest in MMA history. I didnt make that up.
> 
> ...



you said you found all this info.... find it again? show me some accual proof from a reputable web site and take it back. i have a feeling i dont have to worry about that tho. and yeah Anderson threw some kicks, and then was on his back most of the other time. also Anderson is on another level of striking, horrible comparison. and yes it is stupid to throw kicks against someone with strong takedowns, even knees are dangerous, look at Mir's 2 fights against Brock, he got taken down in both fights throwing knees.


----------



## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

so you dont have to wait long to feel stupid.....

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Fighting/UFC/2010/04/08/13511836.html

its actually about Anderson Silva, feel free to visit the site and enlighten yourself instead of calling others out and making yourself look like a jabron.



> Silva is far and away the most accurate striker in UFC history (minimum 300 strike attempts). Over his 10 UFC fights, Silva has landed 302 of 405 strike attempts. That means Silva’s striking accuracy is an unheard-of 75%. The next closest fighter is Cain Velasquez at 63%. Compare that to the average fighter who lands only 35% of his total strikes. In his 27 career fights, he has never had a fight in which he landed less than 50% of his strikes.



I mean literally, took me ONE GOOGLE SEARCH, of "Cain Velasquez striking accuracy"

i know it was too much to ask you to know WTF you are talking about before you insulted me but maybe this will be a lesson learned.

I could easily find more proof, the numbers about Cain landing 7.3 strikes for every 1 strike he is hit with is a very recent article and yes, thats the best ratio in MMA HISTORY.


you want me to find that for you too?? 

ppl just too blind to see what their eyes are telling them. Cain is special, the numbers back it up and everybody who has ever been near him or trained with him back it up.

honestly, you should rep me for this, wasting my time trying to prove a guy who comes with nothing but insults........

Also Mir isnt as good a striker as Cain and there kicks arent even on the same planet in terms of skill, plus Cain is much more mobile and agile?? whats ur point?? Cain knows how to kick, Frank doesnt.

Cain has insane speed, good footwork and a great wrestling base to back up his kicks, Frank doesnt.


----------



## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> so you dont have to wait long to feel stupid.....
> 
> http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Fighting/UFC/2010/04/08/13511836.html
> 
> ...



i did your search, almost all of them lead to forums, and i found this lil number... http://community.ufcundisputed.com/forums/topic/469848?&p=ps



> Cain Velasquez (Challenger)
> 
> Record: 8-0-0
> 7 TKO/KO's
> ...



hmmmm since its using the same numbers you've been quoting, im gonna guess Brocks are accurate too... http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Fighting/UFC/2010/04/08/13511836.html this site said min 300 strikes, but hey after this upcomming fight, we may have a new accuracy king


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

i doubt Brock is throwing alot of strikes this fight but who knows.


i like how you backed off the insults and backed off saying i just made up the stats....


big of you to apologize and send me that pos rep......


oh wait... you didnt. big of you to change your arguement and not admit defeat??


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> true cuz being a 240 man who was wrestling with 285 men and holding his own isnt freakish athletic ability.
> 
> Neither is Cains speed or those crazy kicks he can throw that i bet not many HWs can. Nope, no athletic freak here, its normal for 240 pounders to be as fast and have that kind of cardio.
> 
> ...


First of when I talk about athletic ability yeah I am talking about a comparison of speed, strenght agility. None of those does Cain impress more than any other top level HW. I would love to know were you get your stats to because Cain only has defended 75% of TD`s and has not fought a great wrestler, his striking accuracy for his carreer is actually lower than Lesnar`s and if your just look at standing Cain`s average drops hard its actually below average for the UFC. The only number Cain actually beats Lesnar in is TD % but considering the caliber of guys both have fought I would cut Lesnar some slack he didn`t get any easy fights in the UFC and Cain can not say the same. Oh and my stats are free for anyone who wants to go take a look right on the UFC`s site.


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> i doubt Brock is throwing alot of strikes this fight but who knows.
> 
> 
> i like how you backed off the insults and backed off saying i just made up the stats....
> ...


The arguement was you stating he had the best ratio in the history of *MMA*..... i have yet to see that, infact ive gone and looked more closley at things....

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=dm-numbers090810



> Genauer also looks at what he calls the plus/minus striking number as a key stat, and it shows Velasquez as the most effective striking fighter in the history of the company. Velasquez’s average of 7.07 significant strikes per minute is second, behind only Junior Dos Santos (7.12). The average fighter lands 1.60 significant strikes per minute).
> 
> At the time same, Velasquez, on average, has only been hit 0.97 times per minute, and the differential of 6.1 is as far off the charts given his time frame as Babe Ruth’s slugging numbers in his era. Dos Santos has landed 7.12 strikes per minute, but in doing so has taken 2.27 strikes per minute, and his 4.85 differential is second.


so while yes, in the UFC your claim is correct, it does nothing to say *in the history of Mixed Martial Arts*. which is where this arguement started. and i have found other numbers that accually dispute that, and show Brock as being better... he just doesnt have enough fights yet, and shows there is much more to the stats then they show.

and per UFC's own stats

http://www.ufc.com/fighter/Cain_Velasquez

strikes 262/414 63%

http://www.ufc.com/fighter/Brock_Lesnar

147/184 80%




so your claims are false, maybe do a lil extra digging then just google maybe? and i dont believe i need to apologize, yeah i backed off the insults cuz i can be civil once and a while, but i will thank you for making me dig deeper and look at reputable web sites instead of other forums and fan sites. but you want rep? fine ill send some your way.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

JuggNuttz said:


> The arguement was you stating he had the best ratio in the history of *MMA*..... i have yet to see that, infact ive gone and looked more closley at things....
> 
> http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=dm-numbers090810
> 
> ...


You also got to look at the fact that Cain fought like 3 complete cans and also padded that number like crazy due to his inability to actually damage Kongo which allowed him to just paddy cake his face landing over 200 little pillow fists.
If you remove the GnP on Kongo Cain`s average falls to a mere 26%. (based on the UFC numbers and then removing the FightMetric numers for the Kongo fight)


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

This thread got fun!


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

http://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/fighters/Cain_Velasquez/

http://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/fighters/Brock_Lesnar/


----------



## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Toxic said:


> You also got to look at the fact that Cain fought like 3 complete cans and also padded that number like crazy due to his inability to actually damage Kongo which allowed him to just paddy cake his face landing over 200 little pillow fists.
> If you remove the GnP on Kongo Cain`s average falls to a mere 26%. (based on the UFC numbers and then removing the FightMetric numers for the Kongo fight)


Brock couldn't finish herring


----------



## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

JuggNuttz said:


> The arguement was you stating he had the best ratio in the history of *MMA*..... i have yet to see that, infact ive gone and looked more closley at things....
> 
> http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=dm-numbers090810
> 
> ...


 Cain does have the best strikes landed to strikes recieved in the history of MMA.

Even your little graph shows it... Cains differential is 6.1.... the highest in MMA.


you asked for just his striking accuracy.... so i gave you that and i said he was 2nd in the UFC.....

you just keep changing arguements... i dont know what else to say, everything i said was true.

Cain is the 2nd most accurate striker in the UFC. There is a reason there is a minium of 300 strikes thrown..... Brock hasnt even reached half that number and judging from his last fight and his upcoming, i dont think he will be getting that many strikes in there compared to strikes landed vs him.

Toxic says its cuz the Kongo fight, fact is, Brock could never keep the pace that Cain did in the Kongo fight. No HW not named Cain Velasquez can keep that pace, yet you keep looking at it like a weakness Toxic?? lol, ok.

Brock was in a similar 3 round match with Herring and threw less strikes in the entire match than Cain threw in the 3rd round alone...... 

Cain has the best ratio of strikes landed vs strikes landed on him. 6.1

There was actually a big article about it posted on this very site, Cain was number 1 and JDS was number 2.... 


again, everything i said was true and you said i made it up, now you are just doing some fancy backpeddling like your hero Brock does when somebody taps his chin.

you never said crap about me stating "in the history of MMA" you just said "all your facts are made up" and you said i wouldnt be able to support that Cains striking accuracy was number 2 in the UFC....


made you look foolish so now you claim your arguement was something else?? about "history of MMA"..... lol, grasping at straws, just like you will be grasping for words when Cain makes it look easy on the 23rd.


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## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

Now: Cain is GOD!
In 3 weeks: Cain who?


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> true cuz being a 240 man who was wrestling with 285 men and holding his own isnt freakish athletic ability.
> 
> Neither is Cains speed or those crazy kicks he can throw that i bet not many HWs can. Nope, no athletic freak here, its normal for 240 pounders to be as fast and have that kind of cardio.
> 
> ...


this is what i said you made up, bringing out the numbers is fine and dandy, but nowhere does it say its the highest in MMA History, and i asked for clarification on his percentage. and the 300 minimum was from some other site (also last i checked half of 300 is 150, and 184 is more then 150..... just sayin), and we have clear facts showing Brock having a higher Strikes Landed percentage then Cain himself. And a vast majority of said strikes came in 1 fight. and Cain's 6.1 ratio is impressive, but Brock also has a 5.1.


So say you owned me.... go ahead, whatever helps you sleep at night man, but the numbers dont lie.


----------



## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

what numbers?? god, last post, ur kind of delusional??

u called me out, said i dont know shit and was just making up all the numbers i stated.....

YOU SPECIFICALLY ASKED FOR HIS STRIKING ACCURACY NUMBERS AND SAID I MADE THOSE UP AND WOULDNT POST AGAIN CUZ THEY WERE FALSE


i show you the numbers.....


you start going on about "history of MMA" blah blah blah trying to make a different arguement.


i leave, smiling  and here is a reminder of the crap you said that you are now totally backpeddling and changing your arguement on



> WOW i never knew they had a collection of stats from EVERY mma promotion ever and Cain tops them all!!!!!! and id like to see some clarification on his striking accuracy pls....
> 
> 
> seriously dude, GTFO your starting to look like an idiot. your making shit up and pretending they are facts.


 i said Cain was number 2 accuracy in the UFC, not all of MMA. The strikes differential is only done for fights that were kept track of, im not sure they have every fighter ever but for example ppl like Fedor and Nog were on the lists aswell.

if i must dig up that article and complete list i guess i will, seems you dont take ppls words on anything even when they show you what they said is true....

im done.


----------



## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

The Congo fight proved two things to us: he cannot finish and he cannot take power on his feet, Cain is good, but he doesnt have what it takes just yet.


----------



## Can.Opener (Apr 8, 2009)

Lesnar's beard negates any statistical advantage. End of argument.


----------



## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

LOL, the facial hair thesis negates all.


But if I can be serious for one moment....


When I saw Cain in Countdown, first thought: *Mexican Mike Tyson.* He's short and throws combinations with incredible hand speed, and with terrific power as well. 

Might I add that Mike Tyson was able to knock out taller, heavier opponents as well. 

Here's the difference: *Mike Tyson never had to wrestle.* 

And Cain will have to wrestle. And at some point, Brock is going to be on top, and then he will rain terrible elbows and fists, and then finish by whatever method he wants. 

Cain is an incredible talent, to be sure. But right now, no one can answer Brock's freakish strength and size and mass when he's on top. 

One more thing: let's not forget that Cain's chin is also suspect: he was dropped twice by Kongo; a Cheik Kongo who literally had two weeks to prepare and at the time was a terrible wrestler. 

Anyone who thinks this is a sure thing for either Cain or Brock is an idiot, schoolgirl fanboy, or willingly delusional nuthugger. 

This is a close fight to call, but I'm betting for the bigger dog.

Cain's weaknesses: chin, lack of size.

Brock's weaknesses: rudimentary striking skills, odd zen-like composure. I like a nasty, ornery, immature and slightly out of control Brock. The quieter calmer Brock concerns me.


----------



## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

The fact that Javier Mendez said that Cain is the best! fighter he ever has. Its impressive on its own. Consider he was training with BJ Penn.

I really doubt that he would just said that for hype. It would be very disrespectfull to BJ,Frank, Kos,Fitch and others.

Plus all the rumors from fighters that saw Cain in traing and were blown away.

Man, Im pumped for this fight. It will be great night. Root for Cain, but Brock is beast indeed


----------



## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Atilak said:


> The fact that Javier Mendez said that Cain is the best! fighter he ever has. Its impressive on its own. Consider he was training with BJ Penn.
> 
> I really doubt that he would just said that for hype. It would be very disrespectfull to BJ,Frank, Kos,Fitch and others.
> 
> ...


where have you been? i haven't seen you post in a while


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> what numbers?? god, last post, ur kind of delusional??
> 
> u called me out, said i dont know shit and was just making up all the numbers i stated.....
> 
> ...


whatever makes you feel better man! but yeah this will all be moot after the 23rd and another one falls against Brock =D


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

guy incognito said:


> where have you been? i haven't seen you post in a while


I was never gone but didnt had time to make posts :thumb02: Thanks for caring


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> Cain does have the best strikes landed to strikes recieved in the history of MMA.
> 
> Even your little graph shows it... Cains differential is 6.1.... the highest in MMA.
> 
> ...


 Lesnar 3rd fight with under two years of training, Cain 6th professional fight with over 3 years as a pro fighter (not sure if or how much he competed as an amateur) 


> Cain has the best ratio of strikes landed vs strikes landed on him. 6.1
> 
> There was actually a big article about it posted on this very site, Cain was number 1 and JDS was number 2....


 Its always gonnna be a young guy coming up with the best number, if Cain had been fighting at the top of the division for 3 years that might be impressive but when you come up fighting crap fighters your numbers are padded. Cain`s first 3 UFC fights, Brad Morris, Denis Stojnic and Jake O`Brian. Lesnar`s Herring, Couture and Mir. I don`t care about the strike for and against average unless its actually from somebody who has fought somebody. Machida impressed alot of people by being elusive because of who he was fighting not because of some silly number from when he was fighting jokes. 



> again, everything i said was true and you said i made it up, now you are just doing some fancy backpeddling like your hero Brock does when somebody taps his chin.
> 
> you never said crap about me stating "in the history of MMA" you just said "all your facts are made up" and you said i wouldnt be able to support that Cains striking accuracy was number 2 in the UFC....


It isn`t actually Lesnar is 1 and according to the UFC numbers Anderson Silva is 2.



> made you look foolish so now you claim your arguement was something else?? about "history of MMA"..... lol, grasping at straws, just like you will be grasping for words when Cain makes it look easy on the 23rd.


----------



## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

Toxic said:


> Lesnar 3rd fight with under two years of training, Cain 6th professional fight with over 3 years as a pro fighter (not sure if or how much he competed as an amateur)
> Its always gonnna be a young guy coming up with the best number, if Cain had been fighting at the top of the division for 3 years that might be impressive but when you come up fighting crap fighters your numbers are padded. Cain`s first 3 UFC fights, Brad Morris, Denis Stojnic and Jake O`Brian. Lesnar`s Herring, Couture and Mir. I don`t care about the strike for and against average unless its actually from somebody who has fought somebody. Machida impressed alot of people by being elusive because of who he was fighting not because of some silly number from when he was fighting jokes.
> 
> It isn`t actually Lesnar is 1 and according to the UFC numbers Anderson Silva is 2.


man Toxic.... dont you see that we are made to look like asshats and dont know what we are talking about???? we're Noobs!!!! we dont know WTF were talking about!!!!!! 




that was just dripping with sarcasm incase you couldnt tell......


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Now that we have more statistics Id say Cains striking doesn't look any more impressive and he clearly dons't have the best hands but they are good. 

I think stats are kind of gimp in MMA, on the surface a fighters stats can be boss just like the whole "Cain has the best strikes landed to strikes recieved in the history of MMA." bullshit, looks real good till you look and his opponents and realize the stat has been devalued and he's still not the most accurate HW so whats the stat really saying?

Mostly it says he's out struck "for the most part" a bunch of nobody fighters so thats kind of padding his stats. 

I use stats but with a grain of salt.


----------



## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

where can i watch in the UK ? thanks.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

***** de Amigo said:


> where can i watch in the UK ? thanks.


Im not sure when ESPN are showing it, but you can watch it online here:

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/10/7/1736154/ufc-primetime-lesnar-vs-velasquez-episode-1-full-video


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

like i said, Toxic, its a min of 300 strikes for a reason, so the list doesnt just add guys with so few fights later.

make whatever excuses you want Jugz, fact is, you called me a liar and said i made up all those numbers.... when confronted with the fact i didnt... you say other stuff, yes i did make you look foolish for calling me out like that.


As for Machida, the hype was crazy cuz he never lost a round and had this "elusiveness".

He hadnt even fought Rashad when ppl were saying that, his record was perfect but mostly nobodies, you acting like he was top of the food chain cuz he beat T. Silva and Sokky?? Lol thats so much better than Rothwell, Kongo and Nog???


sure thing, sounds haterish.


sure it could be a young guy with the best numbers toxic, but its Cain, he has 6 fights in the UFC and 8 fights total, thats not bad experience for the HW division and i dont see a bunch of no name HWs on the list, only really good fighters.


As for Brock, he has less then 150 strikes thrown in 6 fights.... he likely wont get to 300 strikes for 12 fights..... his % can change so fast cuz of so few strikes thrown.


THEY ALSO DIDNT COUNT THE CARWIN FIGHT THOSE STATS ARE OLD. BROCKS STRIKING DIFFERENTIAL SURELY WENT DOWN AS HE DIDNT LAND SHIT VS CARWIN AND CARWIN LANDED QUITE A BIT.


either way, keep grasping at straws and trying to downplay the numbers.

My main point is Cain has been impressive as anybody in MMA history in his opening 8 fights, he has some of the best numbers, hasnt lost a round and dominanted everybody he has faced.

nitpick all you want but in 6 fights Lesnar has already lost a fight, rounds and looked weak in many areas of MMA.


Cain?? ppl just nitpick at his power cuz he doesnt look weak in any area of MMA.

As i said, come the 24th, you wont be saying anything much, Cain is gonna make it look easy, Lesnar isnt on his level, at all.


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## The Amarok (May 4, 2010)

OK this whole numbers battle is going nowhere, so lets look at it this way. 
Brock has a higher percentale of strikes landed then Cain. This is a fact. But look a little closer at thoses stats. Most of those strike were landed on the ground. Say your in half guard and you throw down some body shots. Those shots count toward your percentage of strikes landed and when you look at it, its a cheap way to raise your stats since landing body shots when your on top is fairly easier than shots to the head. Next you have to look at how my shots Brock has thrown overall compared to Cain. Brock's total overall is nowhere near Cain's. Its like saying Cain is better than Fedor because he has a better record. Now lets compare and contrast a bit. Lets use Brock's striking % as Cain's record and Cain's striking % to Fedor's record.
Brock's striking % 82 Cain's striking % 62
Cain's record % 100 8-0 Fedor's record % 99.68 32-2
Look at this numbers closely. Brock may have the higher %, but that because he hasn't thrown as many shots as Cain has. If Brock were to do so (base off his last few fights) his "amaszing" percentale will more than likely take a nosedive. 
People need to look at the numbers more closely before they make conclusions that Brock is the better striker due to UFC magazine blown out of perportion stats.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

i will agree that both Brock and Cain benefit greatly from strikes thrown on the ground, they both love to GnP.

Cain has definitely stood more than Brock in his MMA career tho, he beat up Stonjic, O'Brian and Nog standing for quite awhile and was landing all kinds.

I really wasnt trying to show the numbers as proof he is the greatest, just proof he is on course to be the greatest.

Obv he has alot of work to do, but who has started their careers more impressively and looked better leading up to an undefeated title shot??

im betting that list is very short aswell. When Machida hadnt lost a round or even been remotely challenged, the hype was deafening for his title shot.

Cain?? despite similar accomplishments and a MUCH BETTER finishing percentage than Machida, not much hype and is downplayed by the majority of fans.

But fear not, just like Machida did, Cain is leaving with the gold and all the respect after his 1st title shot 

im just hoping he doesnt follow machidas footsteps vs JDS after 

hell, im betting if you ask Machida himself he will tell you WTF is up and who the next HW Champ is


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

The Amarok said:


> People need to look at the numbers more closely before they make conclusions that Brock is the better striker due to UFC magazine blown out of perportion stats.


Nobody said Brocks a better striker, dont come in chastising people for not reading when you obviously have skipped much of the thread yourself.

Cain is a better boxer but thats not going to convince me he has this fight wrapped up and please lets not go into total stupidity and try to say Cain has the best striking in the UFC we all know thats not true.

Also the stats I posted are not from the UFC's site.


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## The Amarok (May 4, 2010)

slapshot said:


> Nobody said Brocks a better striker, dont come in chastising people for not reading when you obviously have skipped much of the thread yourself.
> 
> Cain is a better boxer but thats not going to convince me he has this fight wrapped up and please lets not go into total stupidity and try to say Cain has the best striking in the UFC we all know thats not true.
> 
> Also the stats I posted are not from the UFC's site.


If that is the case, then why bother putting up those stats in the first place and secondI first saw these stats in a UFC mag when Brock was on the cover


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

All E lit is trying to show is that for Cains stats (which are pretty damn impressive) he doesnt really receive a lot of praise or hype in comparison to say Machida when he was making a run for the title.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

You can't analyze this fight using stats... You can't analyze any MMA fight using stats for that matter...

Lets looks at the Cain, Rothwell fight

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Ben_Rothwell_vs_Cain_Velasquez_UFC_104?vid=10007413

First of all look at when they touch gloves, see the size difference? Now imagine if Rothwell was a muscle bound freak and not a tub of jelly.

Next look at Cain's first takedown, he grabs a single leg but has trouble pulling Rothwell down eventually having to sweep his back leg out. Then they move over to the cage where Cain spends a half minute trying to advance his position but gains nearly nothing(also notice how he had to strain to pick Rothwell up) and they end up standing again.

Again Cain goes for a single leg but Rothwell is already gassed... Still takes Cain a bit and a nice spin to pull Rothwell down.

After this it is all Cain as Rothwell has gassed in under 2 minutes... Cain dominates but has trouble landing anything that can do serious damage. He also at a couple moments struggles to hold down a zombie like Rothwell.

Those takedowns aren't going to work on Lesnar... Seriously if Cain tries a takedown like that against Lesnar he is going to end up on his back because Lesnar is much stronger then Rothwell and has much better wrestling. 

Cain's stand up is also a little overrated, it is good but it is nothing special. At the beginning of the Rothwell fight(before Rothwell gasses) the striking was nearly even and Rothwell's striking is only slightly better then Lesnar's. 

From the Kongo fight










If Lesnar rocks Cain like that he is finished. Lesnar will pounce on him and pound him out. 

Brock did not like Carwin's power but Velasquez doesn't pack anywhere near the same punch and Lesnar won't be near as scared of his striking. Especially since he finally brought in a good striker to help work on his standup.

This is a very close fight, Cain is the better all around fighter but his size puts him at a disadvantage. If he can survive the first couple rounds without being taken down and controlled then he has a chance to pull out a decision or maybe a late round TKO.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

pretty much all i was trying to say til i was called out for "making up the numbers" so i had to show that i didnt....


either way, im just saying the kid is crazy impressive, not just the numbers but how he actually fights and how we actually get to see him grow as a fighter on a fight to fight basis.


I mean watch his 1st bodog fight and then watch him vs Kongo..... crazy improvement on his TDs and guard passing and GnP, against a much better opponent then he has ever faced.


then go from Kongo to Rothwell?? did he learn his lesson about setting up TDs and not leaving his chin out there like vs Kongo and giving out what many ppl thought is a very rare 10-7 1st round.

then from Rothwell to Nog?? he starts sitting on his punches, which he always threw with good technique and speed and it resulted in alot more power than we have seen from him standing before. He was also throwing in brutal leg kicks and measuring distance June Keet Do style.


We have seen in only a couple years this kid go from an amazing wrestler with good speed to one of the most technical fighters HWs on the planet with good hands, kicks, BJJ, wrestling, MT and cardio.


I have never seen such improvement fight to fight. I dont care what ppl say thats why i think he is going to be one of the greatest this sport has seen.

We dont see Brock improve like that, nor Carwin, but they are old so i dont expect it asmuch.

Even with a guy like JDS, we get the same thing, the same boxing from him every fight.

Its truely uncanny. Im just excited to see him fight again, there are no HWs out there like him, improving like he is......


since maybe Fedor vs Schilt, in a fight most ppl forget, Fedor got caught with a couple big knees and used his ***** and GnP to get the win, kind of like Cains fight with Kongo, he was tested and it improved him so much and we continually saw him grow immensely on a fight to fight basis.

yep, havent seen anybody like Cain..... since Fedor.


420, Rothwells striking is only SLIGHTLY better than Lesnars???

LOL.

What brought Rothwell to MMA?? His dominating wrestling game??? His amazing BJJ??? The dude stands and bangs with EVERYBODY, including AA in his prime......

lol Brock wouldnt even stand with AA now.......


Brock would get raped by Rothwell standing.... come on, Brocks standup is literally some of the worst in the division, its just he hasnt faced any real strikers yet.

and dont say Randy, Nog put more a standup clinic on Randy than Lesnar did and Cain took Nog to school, bigtime.

also whats the point of pointing out Rothwell has some fat and Lesnar is "all muscle"???

didnt anybody let you know that muscle takes more oxygen to operate and gasses much quicker than fat, hell, its almost good to have a little fat in terms of cardio for fighting. (and no, im not talking about Roy Nelson type fat).

The reason Rothwell gassed is the reason everybody gasses vs Cain


look at the goddamn pace he is setting and keeping for entire fights, watch that 1st round.

no HW can keep that pace. thats why he gassed.... surprise!!!


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> All E lit is trying to show is that for Cains stats (which are pretty damn impressive) he doesnt really receive a lot of praise or hype in comparison to say Machida when he was making a run for the title.


Nor should he, Machida fought a lot of quality opponents on his way to the title, Cain has not.



LOL at a 10-7 first round let me think ummm NO.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

slapshot said:


> Nor should he, Machida fought a lot of quality opponents.


Who?! Thiago Silva?! Sookojou?! Ortiz?!

Rothwell, Kongo, big Nog

They are not quality opponents but Machida's are? Your post screams bias and hate.

Not to mention Machida was known as a decision fighter with a lack of KO power, yet nobody went around calling him pillow hands.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

slapshot said:


> Nor should he, Machida fought a lot of quality opponents on his way to the title, Cain has not.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL at a 10-7 first round let me think ummm NO.


 really is T. Silva, Ortiz and Sokky so much more impressive than Kongo, Rothwell and Nog???


Hell, none of Machidas guys were ranked, Kongo and Nog were.

thats the biggest thing ppl forget.

KONGO was on a 3 fight win streak when he faced Cain and 5-1 in his last 6 with a win over CC and a very controversial SD loss vs Herring, he was IN THE TITLE PICTURE.

Nog had just dismantled Randy in his most impressive ever UFC performance, many were saying "he is back" and he was officially ranked top 5.


But hey, no need for logic.


game, set, match.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Who?! Thiago Silva?! Sookojou?! Ortiz?!
> 
> Rothwell, Kongo, big Nog
> 
> ...


Pot called kettle black? Seriously, this fight (like most) seems to have 2 sides and no middle so every post seem bias and filled with hate.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

cdtcpl said:


> Pot called kettle black? Seriously, this fight (like most) seems to have 2 sides and no middle so every post seem bias and filled with hate.


How did my post show bias or hate though?

I simply compared the list of fighters from machidas title run to Cains title run?

Edit: not sure if you were referring to me or just general tone of this thread.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> How did my post show bias or hate though?
> 
> I simply compared the list of fighters from machidas title run to Cains title run?
> 
> Edit: not sure if you were referring to me or just general tone of this thread.


General tone of the thread, not attacking you specifically.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

ill completely admit my bias!!

im bias to skill, i always say the skill will win and sometimes im not right (maynard vs florian for example).


ill always be biased to skill. whoever possesses more, i will be behind and keep saying they will win.

others seem bias to size, popularity or hype. thats fine, everybody can have an opinion and share it, i dont hate on ppl for that


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Who?! Thiago Silva?! Sookojou?! Ortiz?!
> 
> Rothwell, Kongo, big Nog
> 
> ...


LOL dude lay off the crack, I mean bias and hate? ROFL no just because you dont agree that doesn't make my post hateful...:confused03:
Rothwell and Kongo are B class fighters and Nog was already on a slide and IMO Nog was his only win of substance.

Dont forget he holds Ws over BJ and Rich Franklin and yeah the fighters he's faced were much stiffer competition than Cains so thats why there is not a lot of fan hype, he really has yet to beat anyone at the top of food chain.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

420atalon said:


> You can't analyze this fight using stats... You can't analyze any MMA fight using stats for that matter...
> 
> Lets looks at the Cain, Rothwell fight
> 
> ...



What a joke of a post. absolutely embarrassing. hilarious


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

slapshot said:


> Nor should he, Machida fought a lot of quality opponents on his way to the title, Cain has not.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL at a 10-7 first round let me think ummm NO.


Lol at trying to discredit cain by mentioning king pillow hands machida.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

slapshot said:


> LOL dude lay off the crack, I mean bias and hate? ROFL no just because you dont agree that doesn't make my post hateful...:confused03:
> Rothwell and Kongo are B class fighters and Nog was already on a slide and IMO Nog was his only win of substance.
> 
> Dont forget he holds Ws over BJ and Rich Franklin and yeah the fighters he's faced were much stiffer competition than Cains so thats why there is not a lot of fan hype, he really has yet to beat anyone at the top of food chain.


 i already showed u how Kongo and Nog were ranked, and Nog was top 5...... regardless of how you discredit them, that doesnt change the fact.

But i guess Kongo being 5-1 in his last 6 leading up to Cain with a very close SD loss and a win over CC wasnt in the title picture??

But Lesnar at 1-1 in the UFC was......


Nog was "on the decline" right after the whooped Randy??? Sorry, thats just your opinion, the fact is, he was ranked top 5 and a favorite vs Velasquez.

your hate is seeping thru, i hope, or its just lack of knowledge about the HW landscape only 2 years ago.

I guess Cain should have fought some ranked guys earlier in his career........ how about a LW moving up to HW like BJ did when he faced Machida??? OOOOOO quality win!!!

or MW kingpin Rich Franklin before he was champion....


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> game, set, match.


I laughed so hard when I saw this, like you actually make valid points or have a argument thats legitimate. But you are entertaining.




E Lit Er Ate said:


> i already showed u how Kongo and Nog were ranked, and Nog was top 5...... regardless of how you discredit them, that doesnt change the fact.
> 
> But i guess Kongo being 5-1 in his last 6 leading up to Cain with a very close SD loss and a win over CC wasnt in the title picture??
> 
> ...


I would say just getting embarrassed by Mir and being KO'd for his first time is a decline yes and beating Randy at HW with all the little things stacked against Randy like age, size, Randys chin, its not like he beat the best Randy at the best weight class he beat a Randy that looked like he shouldn't be fighting at HW so no I dont think it was something special either.

Just so you know there is no official ranking system in the UFC it doesn't exist so yeah wrong again but I like nog a win over him has some value in my eyes lets move on...

Even at the time he beat Kongo there was a lot of people here that felt Kongo had a bit too much hype behind him and though he was ranked number three by fans on some website or in some pole that means shit to me, his record speaks for itself and what it says is he can beat fighters who cant wrestle big Fn deal and most of the fighters he beet are so piss poor Im not even sure if they are still in the UFC or even MMA well maybe a few still are but thats your dial for who is championship material?

You are so ignorant its stunning..


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

btw, before ppl call me a liar again...




> Round 1 - Velasquez throws a kick to the body, Rothwell counters with a 1-2. Velasquez sinks for a single and finishes it with a trip. Rothwell tries to work back to his feet, but Velasquez sucks him back down to the floor again. Rothwell stands but Velasquez dumps him to the floor again, but this time Rothwell climbs back to his feet immediately. the fighters exchange, with Velasquez actually landing the cleaner shots. Velasquez drops for another successful takedown, and lands some punishment from side control. Rothwell is able to create an escape, but Velasquez shoots for a successful single and brings Rothwell down again. Velasquez lands several big shot and then transitions to mount briefly. Rothwell is able to escape the mount, but Velasquez stays on top and continues to punish. Rothwell is able to stand up again but immediately gets dumped back down. Velasquez stands over his exhausted opponent and lands numerous hard shots. However, Rothwell is able to hang on and the round ends. MMAjunkie.com scores the first round 10-8 for Velasquez and wouldn't argue with a 10-7.
> 
> http://mmajunkie.com/news/16602/ufc-104-live-results-and-play-by-play.mma



read the last part..... some ppl did score it 10-7, it was an ass whooping on top of an ass whooping. Most ppl did score it 10-8 but a few outlets did have it at 10-7. Either way, it was epicly one sided and fast paced.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

slapshot said:


> LOL dude lay off the crack, I mean bias and hate? ROFL no just because you dont agree that doesn't make my post hateful...:confused03:
> Rothwell and Kongo are B class fighters and Nog was already on a slide and IMO Nog was his only win of substance.
> 
> Dont forget he holds Ws over BJ and Rich Franklin and yeah the fighters he's faced were much stiffer competition than Cains so thats why there is not a lot of fan hype, he really has yet to beat anyone at the top of food chain.


You're telling me to lay off the crack? Yet you criticise Cains recent opponents leading up to a title shot but call Machidas title shot opponents "quality opponents"


T Silva, Sokk and Ortiz were quality opponents but big nog, kongo and big ben aint?!

My advice would be for you to lay off the crack.

Edited and you forgot this part E lit :

"Round 2 - Rothwell tries a head kick as the round opens and almost falls over. Velasquez sinks for a single and throws his opponent to the ground. Rothwell is turtled with Velasquez on his back landing hard shots to the face. Rothwell is able to scramble over to the fence with Velasquez keeping the pressure on. Rothwell starts to stand up and eats five consecutive clean shots to the face while doing so. Mazegatti has seen enough and jumps in to call an end to the fight just as Rothwell gets back to his feet. Rothwell protests the stoppage, but it's certain that he was getting absolutely demolished in the fight. Cain Velasquez defeats Ben Rothwell by TKO at 0:58 of the second round. "


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> 420, Rothwells striking is only SLIGHTLY better than Lesnars???
> 
> LOL.
> 
> ...


Arlovski tooled Rothwell... Rothwell is overrated as a fighter, he is ok in all respects of the game but nothing special in any of them. Roy freaking Nelson is his biggest win and he nearly lost that fight, he didn't even look great against Yvel...

Rothwell gassed cause he is fat and lazy, same reason he gasses in almost all his fights... The pace in the first 2 minutes of their fight wasn't that hectic and Rothwell was done, he could barely stand let alone fight...

Lesnar would whoop Rothwell in every respect if they fought. Don't let your dislike blind you.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

so u think Lesnar could beat Rothwell in an all standup battle??

lol.


im not letting my dislike do anything, im realistic.


Brock couldnt beat most HWs in a standup battle, let alone one who is primarily a striker.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...Great show. It shows how wicked this fight is gonna be. Cain's cardio, speed, & more importantly his striking are much better than Lesnar's. CV is one serious dude with excellent composure. Both fighters are mentally strong and have no quit in them. Cain's kick/punch combinations are so key. CV is a sick, aggressive striker. I said before his *legkicks* are the biggest key to victory. Cain must keep moving laterally and has to turn Brock's lead leg into jelly. He has to weaken that massive shot or Cain will be on his back eating lunchboxes. I don't see Brock catching Cain with punches because of CV's speed. I don't see Cain knocking Lesnar out. If Velasquez can drag Brock in deep water on the feet he can chop him down then he can finish him. If Brock shoots out of the gate and gets a quick, powerful double-leg- Cain's heart will be tested like never before. A fresh Brock chest to chest is a true nightmare. This fight has got me jacked!!


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> You're telling me to lay off the crack? Yet you criticise Cains recent opponents leading up to a title shot but call Machidas title shot opponents "quality opponents"
> 
> 
> T Silva, Sokk and Ortiz were quality opponents but big nog, kongo and big ben aint?!
> ...


I didn't bring up Machida at all actually someone was crying about how Cain didn't get the recognition Machida did and I stated he hasn't faced the level of competition Machida has on his climb to the top.



E Lit Er Ate said:


> btw, before ppl call me a liar again...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Some people meaning you want to take some fringe element and say they scored it 10-7 AGAIN like it has validity, people who scored that round a 10-7 are not sparse because gay leprechauns drug them off into the woods and killed them, the opinion is rare because it's wrong.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> like i said, Toxic, its a min of 300 strikes for a reason, so the list doesnt just add guys with so few fights later.


 So Cain threw 300 strikes, point? Most of them where against ?Kongo and they didn't do shit. Gilbert Yvel and Josh Barnett had a similar fight to Kongo/Cain the difference was Yvel did more damage to Barnett off his back. Like I said if you take away the hundreds of little pats in the face he gave Kongo his striking actually looks shite. 


> make whatever excuses you want Jugz, fact is, you called me a liar and said i made up all those numbers.... when confronted with the fact i didnt... you say other stuff, yes i did make you look foolish for calling me out like that.


 You did say that Cain had the second best striking % in mma history which is false, actually that kinda makes what Jugz said accurate.


> As for Machida, the hype was crazy cuz he never lost a round and had this "elusiveness".
> 
> He hadnt even fought Rashad when ppl were saying that, his record was perfect but mostly nobodies, you acting like he was top of the food chain cuz he beat T. Silva and Sokky?? Lol thats so much better than Rothwell, Kongo and Nog???


 I don't know about that but I would say Franklin, Penn, Sokky, Thiago and Tito are better than Morris, O'Brian, Stojnic and Kongo. 



> sure thing, sounds haterish.


 There is a difference between hating and looking at things objectively instead of listening to the hype.


> sure it could be a young guy with the best numbers toxic, but its Cain, he has 6 fights in the UFC and 8 fights total, thats not bad experience for the HW division and i dont see a bunch of no name HWs on the list, only really good fighters.


 Who are these "really good fighters"? Jesse Fujarczyk? Who the F*** is that? Denis Stojnić? Guy couldn't cut it in the UFC, Brad Morris and Jake O'Brien? Neither of them could even cut it in the 205 division. Who are these good fighters? Kongo is a horrible fighter who is completely one dimensional, The only two wins that are even impressive on Cain's resume are the Rothwell fight (which was stopped early) and the Nog fight (impressive but its pretty clear that Nog's chin is kinda shot, he has been Ko'd in 2 of his last 3 and dropped in half his UFC bouts)



> As for Brock, he has less then 150 strikes thrown in 6 fights.... he likely wont get to 300 strikes for 12 fights..... his % can change so fast cuz of so few strikes thrown.


 You must be the only guys who thinks that a fighter being able to throw LESS strikes to beat better opponents is a bad thing. 



> THEY ALSO DIDNT COUNT THE CARWIN FIGHT THOSE STATS ARE OLD. BROCKS STRIKING DIFFERENTIAL SURELY WENT DOWN AS HE DIDNT LAND SHIT VS CARWIN AND CARWIN LANDED QUITE A BIT.


 Remind me again how did that fight end? Also unless Cain is gonna magically put on 40lbs of muscle it don't mean jack. 



> either way, keep grasping at straws and trying to downplay the numbers.


 You using weak numbers to make a weak arguement. I am not grasping at straws, Lesnar has a higher striking accuracy against a far superior resume of opponents. That is a FACT.


> My main point is Cain has been impressive as anybody in MMA history in his opening 8 fights, he has some of the best numbers, hasnt lost a round and dominanted everybody he has faced.


 Impressive as anybody in MMA? Lesnar has had less fights has beaten 2 former champs and is walking around with the belt on his waist. I would say Cain has definately not been as impressive as that. I can name a handful of fighters who undeniably have accomplished more faster.


> nitpick all you want but in 6 fights Lesnar has already lost a fight, rounds and looked weak in many areas of MMA.


 That is what happens when you jump both feet into the deep end of the pool. Lesnar lost due to inexperience because really a guy with one mma fight should have never been in the cage with a former UFC champion. Cain probably didn't even fight as a pro in his second fight never mind he didn't fight a former champion till his 8th fight with over 4 years of fighting professionally. You can look at numbers but your numbers don't matter because they don't take into account who they have fought.



> Cain?? ppl just nitpick at his power cuz he doesnt look weak in any area of MMA.


 He looks very skilled but he has shown a lack of power, a crap jaw and most people realize that he just doesn't have the physical tools to beat Lesnar. GSP is more skilled than Lesar or Cain IMO but I wouldn't throw him in the cage with either because he would lose due to just being to small. 


> As i said, come the 24th, you wont be saying anything much, Cain is gonna make it look easy, Lesnar isnt on his level, at all.


 Oh I am pretty sure I will be around here either way, I have a feeling that you will disappear with your head in the sand avoiding eating crow.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

Brock lost, Cain hasnt.

Brock got pounded into a 10-8 round and looked inches away from defeat, Cain has never lost a round.


I think that evens out whatever discrepency in opponents they have had.... in fact.


Rothwell > Herring

Nog > Randy

Kongo < Mir


really Carwin is the only win unaccounted for. But as i said, he lost one too. so its pretty even, if not Cain having the edge.


But i guess you dont count the loss?? right?? if only Cain had to take that tough route of Herring than a title shot vs Randy (who Cain would obv destroy in 1 round, Nog style).

believe ill be here to laugh and enjoy the 24th. if you want to man up, i would enjoy owning your sig more than anybody elses who has challenged, i mean its not often you get an Admins sig  

let me know if you gonna back up the big words.

when you talk about Cain, i can tell you know little to nothing about his college wrestling or early MMA experiences.

He couldnt even find a fight locally, thats how big his rep was, he jumped to the UFC after 2 pro fights and a impromtu tryout where Dana White brought in a couple legit HWs and Cain ragdolled them and went on to hit the bag for another hour after.


You act as if Cain has been in the game much longer than Lesnar?? Infact, its about 1 year longer..... its just he looks so much more polished and calm cuz he is a natural fighter.


You talk about Lesnar jumping in the deep end like its some miracle.... most guys arent offered those type of fights of the bat.


Most guys arent coming off WWE fame and getting those big paychecks right away either.


Im sure Cain couldnt have lost to Mir then beat Herring and Couture...... he should be punished for not having WWE fame and getting big fights right away.

Cain actually had to earn his spot is what you are telling me. Like 99% of the fighters out there.

You are making that out to be some kind of bad thing?? i think its the right thing and it will allow young fighters to improve and have longevity.

UFC wasnt expecting longevity from Brock, they expected a draw, he is too old and not improving enough to have serious longevity, he relies way too much on raw athletic ability and not technique and that wont last forever.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I think Rothwell is underrated but he has a lot to prove before he can claim to be on Herring's level. Kongo>Rothwell>Herring>Randy>Nog>Mir>Carwin

Losses don't count because I look at there past fights and what happened in them not at some statistic like a mathematician. I know its not about numbers. I am 100% positive Mir would have whooped Cain's ass if he was Cain's second ever MMA fight to. Brock has evolved a lot since that fight and since Cain is not Frank Mir in terms of BJJ its not relevant to this fight. You can hide behind it all day but Cain is gonna get pounded because Cain has no business fighting guys who have 40lbs of muscle on him he will take his ass down to 205 after this fight, he will just have to wait for his bruises to heal.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

you have no business to keep repeating "40 pounds of muscle" when Brock said he doesnt cut to 265 anymore, he is at 265 and Cain will be 238-245 depending.


sounds more like 20-25 pounds.

Either way, simple minded thinking about weight, there is a reason most combat sports HW champions are not maxxed out, it severely limits mobility, cardio and technique.


Cain will show you why most HW Champions in combat sports history have come in from 230-250.

why does it matter if its 40 pounds "of muscle" btw?? what if its just 50 pounds like Konrad had on Cain in college?? What if its 30 pounds like Rothwell had??

Let me guess, muscles make you a better wrestler?? Konrad is a fat slob but has better wrestling creds than Brock and Cain combined. He was a kingpin in the toughest NCAA HW division ever. I cant believe he didnt just get owned by guys with muscles!!

lol you put alot of faith in muscles. i put more in skills.


----------



## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Toxic said:


> What do you use for a basis to state Cain has better BJJ? I mean he has shown zero in the UFC while at least Lesnar submitted Carwin. We have never seen Cain`s BJJ either offensively or defensively so to give him any so called advantage there is completely baseless.
> 
> 
> Cain has not shown any freakish athletic ability. Brock has numbers to back up the fact he is an athletic freak.


Considering he won the No-Gi BJJ Blue Belt World Championships about a year after starting jits under Camarillo. He's now a purple belt and that was a few years ago so i think he would be a seriously good submission grappler by now, based on his level of improvement shown through his fights so far.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> you have no business to keep repeating "40 pounds of muscle" when Brock said he doesnt cut to 265 anymore, he is at 265 and Cain will be 238-245 depending.
> 
> 
> sounds more like 20-25 pounds.
> ...


The reason that the champs in combat sports have traditionally been smaller is those big ass super athletes went to football because that is where the money was and MMA was a pretty niche sport even 5 years ago (still is in a way). Guys like Lesnar and Carwin were off chasing NFL dreams so the big maxxed out HW's were guys like Tim Sylvia or Gan McGee. Slow uncoordinated kind of oafs. Today were seeing elite physical specimens. Guys who are athletically comparable to a guy like GSP but at the top of the heavyweight division size wise. You do realize Konrad beat Cain right? Either way Konrad wasn't punching him in the face. Rothwell is not Lesnar, he is not as big, fast, powerful nor does he even remotely have the wrestling. Comparing them is like comparing Cain to Dennis Stojnic since they are the same size. Your arguments are just getting weaker, state your prediction and prepare to eat your crow.




MRBRESK said:


> Considering he won the No-Gi BJJ Blue Belt World Championships about a year after starting jits under Camarillo. He's now a purple belt and that was a few years ago so i think he would be a seriously good submission grappler by now, based on his level of improvement shown through his fights so far.


Gotta remember thought the blue belt level is still pretty low and considering Cain's wrestling background it would help him a lot at the lower levels in that he could dictate so much of the positioning. Jeff Monson was a less accomplished but still good collegiate wrestler and has said that his wrestling has been a great asset when competing in submission grappling and he competes at the highest levels.


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## RKiller (May 17, 2007)

I haven't been so interested in a fight for a while now. I'll give the edge to Lesnar because he has two proven tough opponents in Mir and Carwin while Cain really just has Nog. Cain beats Lesnar on the feet for sure, but we will have to wait to see about the wrestling. Clinch should be Lesnar, BJJ is a ?, and top game I will give to Lesnar just because he does more damage from there. I think Lesnar wins because I'm confident at some point he will be on top and will probably finish Cain when he gets to that position.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

so all the big guys went to the NFL and we are only seeing them now??


where were they in boxing?? those maxxed out legends??? boxing has been around along time and big $ there, no MMA is new excuse like you are using, being that big is useless unless you are 6f8.

nobody in boxing was 6f1 265, thats just ridiculous and you will never have great cardio, technique or mobility with that kind of weight.

Thats why Lesnars striking has probably peaked, which is sad, he looks like a robot out there but thats why guys shouldnt be that heavy.

either way, you will be the one eating crow, you know wiki facts and nothing more about Cain.


Yes Konrad did beat Cain.... on riding time. Do you know what that is??? about as close a match you can have.

Cain also beat Konrad at a home meet the same year, they are 1-1 and Konrad and is one of the greatest NCAA HWs of all time aswell, and a 285er in college.


But your right, Konrad wasnt punching him in the face. If there was punching invovled, Konrad would have been devastated, lol look at him in MMA. Being that big is such a hinderance to his overall growth as a fighter. Cain would make him look like a fool in MMA.


Something Konrad couldnt do to Cain in his pure strength, wrestling. Something Brock wont be able to do with only wrestling aswell.


BTW football is only an american sport, the world doesnt care, you make it sound like the only athletic HWs are in america lol NFL sucked them all up, what a horrible silly arguement.


Combat sports have been along on a high level alot longer than the NFL and even when the NFL was semi popular, until the strike, those guys werent getting paid, it wasnt a huge draw finicially either.

Still most NFL players arent the greatest paid and their average career span is often 3 years for some positions.


you gonna keep talking about crow, this and that, or are you gonna accept the year long sig bet??? i know as a Cote fan you dont care if a fighter has talent or not and i admire that, so i would like your sig?? bet??

ill also be awaiting the influx of 265ers with agility, cardio and REAL standup skills.

until then, everything you say is based on fantasy, Carwin was exposed for insanely bad cardio last fight and Brock is the only 265er left to make this claim that they are taking over.

After he loses and its all about JDS, Werdum, Fedor and Cain, what will you say??? how big are those guys??? oh, the same size as most HW Champions in the history of combat sports...


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Size is a hindrance in Boxing but so is a lot of the muscle that it necessary in MMA boxers and wrestlers require a different muscle build to be successful, boxers are built to move forward punching not throw people to the side or have somebody doing it to them. There is a whole other science as to how boxers need to develop muscle wise to promote mobility but that is a whole other story. The bottom line is Cain is the more well rounded fighter or at least from what we have seen and heard he should be. Lesnar though is a vastly superior athlete who is an exceptional wrestler with good submission defense and an ability to absorb far more punishment than Cain is capable of dishing out. Cain may be the better fighter but come fight night Brock will win because in this sport despite what you may have learnt at UFC 1 size DOES matter. Its the reason there are weight classes and we are reaching a time when a split of the HW division is necessary. Could Cain be a champ at a 225 pound weight division? of course but he is not gonna have the power to compete with Lesnar. 
Brock doesn't have to box better than Cain, Cain is not big enough to stop the ox that is Lesnar. You said yourself Konrad is big but he is not a monster athlete like Brock.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

nothing much else to say, i agree to disagree.


Shall we sig bet for a year or not?? im willing to bet real $ too if there is a good trustworthy holder or another way to go about it.

This is the easist sig and $ i will make since Cain vs Nog. Its gonna be a 1 sided affair indeed and you will be shocked


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

As I said in the PM E Lit Er Ate, I won't sig bet you because your new and your may just disappear, I m not going anywhere so I only sig bet people I know are the same and you don't have enough time here for me to be confident in that.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

I just dont understand the Brock is too big and strong for Cain argument. Brock wasnt too big and strong for Randy, he was struggling real bad trying to grapple with Randy so why do people think he wont struggle with Cain? He was not not too big and strong to over power Randy with his strength, but he will be able to with Cain?!!! Better wrestling than Randy, bigger than Randy and faster.

I like Brock but i expect him to be a gatekeeper around 2012 or retired.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> I just dont understand the Brock is too big and strong for Cain argument. Brock wasnt too big and strong for Randy, he was struggling real bad trying to grapple with Randy so why do people think he wont struggle with Cain? He was not not too big and strong to over power Randy with his strength, but he will be able to with Cain?!!! Better wrestling than Randy, bigger than Randy and faster.
> 
> I like Brock but i expect him to be a gatekeeper around 2012 or retired.


Actually Brock was to big for Randy, I remember Randy sprawling a TD perfectly so Brock just donkey konged right through it. And Cain is much closer in size to Randy than he is to Brock. . Also Cain is a better wrestler than Randy? Its kinda like comparing apples and oranges as Randy is a greco roman wrestler while Cain isn't but Randy was an Olympic alternate and cometed at the international level so saying Cain is a better wrester is subjective.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Actually Brock was to big for Randy, I remember Randy sprawling a TD perfectly so Brock just donkey konged right through it. And Cain is much closer in size to Randy than he is to Brock. . Also Cain is a better wrestler than Randy? Its kinda like comparing apples and oranges as Randy is a greco roman wrestler while Cain isn't but Randy was an Olympic alternate and cometed at the international level so saying Cain is a better wrester is subjective.


Brock clearly wasnt too big for Randy. Randy stuffed Brocks double leg with relative ease and for a fair amount of time he was the one who had Brock against the cage, working him. When Brock got Randy down, Randy got back up in no time and actually took Brocks back at one point. He was doing a fantastic job of completely. neutralising Brocks strength, size and wrestling

If there is one thing that fight proved it is that Brock is clearly not too big and strong for fellow grappler's who are smaller.

I have no doubts that Cain would demolish Randy in the first round, whether it be via striking or wrestling. Cains mma wrestling technique is some of the very best in the business.

I dont understand how some people just cant see who special Cain is, this kid is a born fighter. Mendez coming out with quotes like: "Cain is the most gifted fighter he has ever trained, including BJ Penn". That to me, is really quite a powerful statement.


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## Maazisrock (Sep 22, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> I just dont understand the Brock is too big and strong for Cain argument. Brock wasnt too big and strong for Randy, he was struggling real bad trying to grapple with Randy so why do people think he wont struggle with Cain? He was not not too big and strong to over power Randy with his strength, but he will be able to with Cain?!!! Better wrestling than Randy, bigger than Randy and faster.
> 
> I like Brock *but i expect him to be a gatekeeper around 2012 or retired*.


rofl and yet you still support bj penn.........:confused02:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Maazisrock said:


> rofl and yet you still support bj penn.........:confused02:


I support BJ because i believe he is one of the most naturally talented and skilled fighters in the sport, because he has a scary aura/intensity about him when when hes in the octagon and because he licks the blood of his opponent from his gloves when he dismantles them, almost as if he has taken their soul. BJ will always be a legend in my eyes and his skill set isnt even comparable to Lesnars.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

Cain is about 20 pounds heavier than Randy and 20 pounds lighter than Brock.

Cain comes in at 238-245.


So, if Cain were fighting Randy, would you be saying all this "he is way too big, too strong"??


Prob not, you are just buying zuffa hype and you are better than that to be fooled.

you buying the hype so much Toxic, you keep saying things like "40 pounds of muscle" and stuff that simply isnt true.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> I dont understand how some people just cant see who special Cain is, this kid is a born fighter. Mendez coming out with quotes like: "Cain is the most gifted fighter he has ever trained, including BJ Penn". That to me, is really quite a powerful statement.



Vitor Belfort was the most gifted fighter ever at one point to, blah blah blah. I don't care how gifted Cain's trainers say he is. Find me one trainer who says my fighter sucks. Brock's trainers say he is the greatest ever to. Dude if that fighter is helping bring in new students and your getting a cut of his action your would sell him like there is no tomorrow as well.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Vitor Belfort was the most gifted fighter ever at one point to, blah blah blah. I don't care how gifted Cain's trainers say he is. Find me one trainer who says my fighter sucks. Brock's trainers say he is the greatest ever to. Dude if that fighter is helping bring in new students and your getting a cut of his action your would sell him like there is no tomorrow as well.


Vitor has never been a mentally strong fighter though, Cain and Brocks mental game and heart are equal.

Cain has a true mexicans heart and the attitude to be champion.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

Mendez doesnt just throw words like that around Toxic.......


you should know that as you have said you are a big Frank Shamrock fan??

The guy openly in front of his team at AKA calls Cain his most talented pupil ever. Shamrock, Cung Le, BJ Penn, Kos and Fitch all know he feels this way.


You think he is making it up?? Or Chael Sonnen is?? Or Machida and Nog are??? Brett Rogers too???

All have said the same thing, Cain is the future champ.

Biggest difference between Brock and Cain???

Brock is Zuffa hype with alot of WWE fans.

Cains hype is all from inside the hardcore community, fighters and trainers, even before he entered the UFC.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Vitor has never been a mentally strong fighter though, Cain and Brocks mental game and heart are equal.
> 
> Cain has a true mexicans heart and the attitude to be champion.


When has Cain showed heart? Please don't say the Kongo fight he was clinging to dear life trying to get that TD to save his ass that may or not have been heart but fear would have looked exactly the same so its really impossible to know. We have yet to see Cain really tested mentally. That wasn't my point though my point was we have seen plenty of "next big things" wither away and never live up to the hype. In fact I would say 3/4 of them never amount to shit. I have zero faith in that Velasquez is gonna be this force everyone is expecting. Lesnar is his worst nightmare of a match up. Oh Cain has good wrestling, great Lesnar tossed great wrestlers around all day long at the gym so it will kind of be like sparring for him.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Sometimes in my mind I compare Lesnar's success to when Bob Sapp beat Ernesto Hoost (twice) when he burst on the scene.


Or how Tim Sylvia looked unbeatable for so long and was the "giant" at HW.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> Sometimes in my mind I compare Lesnar's success to when Bob Sapp beat Ernesto Hoost (twice) when he burst on the scene.
> 
> 
> Or how Tim Sylvia looked unbeatable for so long and was the "giant" at HW.


oh please

take a look who was at the HW division for Tim and Lesnar. that comparison is laughable at best. Best person there was is Arlovski which I am a fan of, except for his glass chin.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Toxic said:


> When has Cain showed heart? Please don't say the Kongo fight he was clinging to dear life trying to get that TD to save his ass that may or not have been heart but fear would have looked exactly the same so its really impossible to know. We have yet to see Cain really tested mentally. That wasn't my point though my point was we have seen plenty of "next big things" wither away and never live up to the hype. In fact I would say 3/4 of them never amount to shit. I have zero faith in that Velasquez is gonna be this force everyone is expecting. Lesnar is his worst nightmare of a match up. Oh Cain has good wrestling, great Lesnar tossed great wrestlers around all day long at the gym so it will kind of be like sparring for him.


You're definetley buying too much into the Lesnar hype man. "Lesnar tossed great wrestlers around all day long at the gym". Thats all well and good but when has he tossed around a wrestler in the octagon? He failed to do it to randy and failed against Carwin, he tossed neither man around.

Kongos flush shots would have folded many fighters. He was clinging onto Kongo for dear life? Well for a start he wasnt clinging, he secure a take down IMMEDIATELY. Secondly, that is the smartest thing to do in a situation where you are rocked. Walking backwards (like Brock) or trying to throw back is often a mistake. The best way to regain your composure is to clinch, grab a hold of them.

We have seen many big things come and go in mma, but the only people i have been truly believed in are Cain and Jon Jones. I didnt buy into the Vera hype or the Machida hype, but i truly believe Cain is a prodigy and he will be the champ for quite some time.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> oh please
> 
> take a look who was at the HW division for Tim and Lesnar. that comparison is laughable at best. Best person there was is Arlovski which I am a fan of, except for his glass chin.



Yeah right buddy, Ricco had a ton of hype and had just beat Arlovski, Monson, Buentello, and Randy when Sylvia walked right through him.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Some of the arguments here are silly. 


Randy himself said in the interview with Joe something along the lines of "I did my best he's just a big sun of a bitch", and then he elaborated saying Brock was just too big. 

That should put that to rest unless you think you know more about that fight than Randy.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> Yeah right buddy, Ricco had a ton of hype and had just beat Arlovski, Monson, Buentello, and Randy when Sylvia walked right through him.


Gotta remember thought that Ricco was already declining with the dug issues before he even beat Randy for the title. Honestly I don't think Timmy could have ever beaten a prime form Ricco Rodriguez. The guy was an absolute beast.


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## Jesy Blue (May 8, 2009)

limba said:


> You are right.
> We haven't seen any of Cain's Jiu Jitsu yet.
> My argument is Brock's BJJ is poor. I don't care that he submitted a tired and gassed Carwin.
> I will take Dave Camarillo's word when he says Cain has better Jiu Jitsu than Brock. Plus he has a purple belt in BJJ under Camarillo.
> ...


i thought BJJ was built to oppose people who are bigger than you? and after that first lose to BJJ, Brock is hyper-sensitive to avoiding it again at all costs, hence how he conducted himself with the second go round with Mir. anything to not get the feeling of tapping out again.



Mckeever said:


> Light on his feet? Both men were just standing there looking at each other, he was notably gassed.
> 
> Frankie Edgar could of took down Carwin in that state.


but.... Frankie's awesome; he can take anyone down.



E Lit Er Ate said:


> How about these numbers?? Cain lands more strikes, while getting hit the least.... in the HISTORY of MMA.
> 
> Cain has never lost a round. Has the 2nd highest striking percentage in the UFC and has never been LEGITLY taken down (we can argue all you want, TD = Control, Kongo had no control and got his back taken).
> 
> Those are some impressive numbers.


all things that were said about Lyoto Machida about a year ago, yet none of it helps against an awesome game plan.



E Lit Er Ate said:


> Brock lost, Cain hasnt.


and as GSP tells us a lose ruins everything and doesn't make you push harder and doesn't make you a better fighter. he's now just a has been since his lose to Matt Serra.... no, wait, i think i got something wrong.



Toxic said:


> I think Rothwell is underrated but he has a lot to prove before he can claim to be on Herring's level. Kongo>Rothwell>Herring>Randy>Nog>Mir>Carwin


i think you got your arrows backwards; the alligator always eats the bigger piece.



slapshot said:


> Some of the arguments here are silly.


 i find it interesting that everyone here is 1000 times more angry about this match up than the actual fighters appear to be. 

i have no favorite in this match up, i just hope for a good interesting fight and hope for a 5 round war.... i want to see what both of these guys do in deep water, the true testing grounds of champions:

Griffin/Jackson
Edgar/Penn I

the last HW title match that went to round 5 was when Randy took it from Tim! i want to see a war, i want to be on the edge of my seat in that pause moment before Bruce Buffer says either "New" or "Still". give me an exciting clean fight and i will happily give you my money.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Five rounds is really a long time for these two, not saying it cant go five but I think it will either end in the first with Cain dropping Brock or the third with Brock pounding Cain out thats my best guess anyway.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

you think the longer it lasts, the advantage swings to Brock??

if it goes to the 3rd or beyond, i will go back on bodog and double my bet on Cain.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Jesy Blue said:


> i think you got your arrows backwards; the alligator always eats the bigger piece.


Touche, what you mean you didn't think Kongo was better than Couture, Nog or Carwin?


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> you think the longer it lasts, the advantage swings to Brock??
> 
> if it goes to the 3rd or beyond, i will go back on bodog and double my bet on Cain.


You do that its your money to lose.

Everyone loses stamina the longer a fight goes on and depending on how you fight that effects fighters differently.

The longer this fight goes the more chances Brock has to take Cain down and I dont see time as a advantage for Cain.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

does anybody know where i can find episode 2? i'm pretty sure it aired on wednesday.


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

It airs in 40 minutes here.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

dudeabides said:


> It airs in 40 minutes here.


do you know if it is watchable on spiketv.com? or any live streams?


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## BondageGuy (Oct 9, 2010)

Jesy Blue said:


> i think you got your arrows backwards; the alligator always eats the bigger piece.


dont even know what else you were talking about but i think i love you!

*reminisces about elementary school*


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Brock Lesnar is a scary human being. 

I think Cain's plan to have the better cardio is not gonna work out well for him. I was thinking about the fact that Lesnar always looks like he hasn't been in the sun ever I mean when he steps in the octagon he ussually looks like he is half albino. Think about it what does he talk about doing outside of the gym and fighting? Hunting, Fishing, outdoorsy stuff. How does a outdoorsy guy not get a tan? When Lesnar and his camp says he practically lives in the gym goes home eats sleeps and does it again .I really don't think they are shitting us.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

he said he trains 2 hours a day.....


jeez, u slurping up the zuffa hype hard..... show a couple vids of Brock lifting weights and ZOMG....


Show clips of Cain hitting bags looking technical like a pro boxer.... YAWN.......


Brock running sprints..... ZOMG!!!!!



Cain throwing switch kicks and crazy head kick combos....... YAWN.....


Honestly, to anybody that has trained hitting bags or hitting pads with trainers, the skill difference between Brock and Cain is so wide and so evident within about 30 seconds its not even funny.


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## freakshowexcess (Apr 25, 2010)

I'm not saying that Cain isn't more skilled than Brock is, but it's silly to presume that all Brock does is lift weights simply because that's what most of his footage shows. The shows are edited in that fashion for a reason. Most people view Brock as this overwhelming beast of a man, so they show him lifting weights and demonstrating his power quite frequently, whereas Cain is supposed to be the smaller but more technical fighter, so they try and capture that image by showing his bag work more often. That doesn't mean Brock doesn't work the pads and that Cain doesn't lift any weights. They are trying to polarize the two of them as much as they can for a reason. 

I am not going to try and pretend like I know what's going to happen on the 23rd, because it's just too difficult to predict in my opinion. I could see Cain picking Brock apart and outclassing him, but I can also easily imagine Brock overpowering Cain and finishing the fight on the ground. Brock may even rock Cain on the feet if he can catch him with a clean shot, although I wouldn't say that's the smart option to pursue. Clearly Brock's game plan should be to get the fight to the ground and get Cain on his back, where we really never see him.

Regardless of what happens, all I know is that I am excited for this fight and am confident it's going to be an entertaining match up.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Where can I watch episode 2 online?


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

michelangelo said:


> Where can I watch episode 2 online?


i also would like to know


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Give MMA-Core a gander.

Everytime I see Lesnar training, I just wonder what sort of nutcase would want to step into a steel cage and fight this man. He is an absolute animal, and is only getting better and better as a fighter. I have no doubt in my mind that this will be the best Brock Lesnar we have ever seen. He's now 100% healthy, was only in the cage 3 months ago and so there will be no cage rust at all. We now know that he has the heart of a warrior, to go with the freakish athletic ability and technique. Cain Velasquez is seriously talented dude, but how will he react if Brock steams through him, picks him up, dumps him on his head and starts smashing his face in? Cain was in trouble after getting caught by Kongo, but he's never been in deep water like Brock was against Carwin; how will he react to that situation? That will be the key to this fight, how much heart does Cain Velasquez have, and will he be able to defend the onslaught from the raging bull charging towards him? Roll on fight night, I cannot wait!


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

I just placed another $200 on Cain after watching this.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> he said he trains 2 hours a day.....
> 
> 
> jeez, u slurping up the zuffa hype hard..... show a couple vids of Brock lifting weights and ZOMG....
> ...


You know after a while you just get plain silly. You make zero acknowledgement of the fact that Lesnar A) actually has some skills or that B) the guys is an insane specimen of a human being. After awhile people just quit paying attention because your clearly just going to blindly hug to Cain's nuts and hate on Lesnar regardless of what you see or anyone else says. I get it Cain is in reality 7 feet tall, he catches bullets with his teeth, can bench press 10,000 pounds, run a one minute mile, well actually he can run 500 consecutive 1 minute miles because his speed and cardio are that impressive.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Aye, E Lit Er Ate, you're a good guy whom I tend to like, but don't be ridiculous, mate. If you truly believe that all Brock does is lift weights and run sprints, then I don't know what to say to you. What do we know about all UFC produced shows like TUF, Prime Time, and even Countdowns? They're all heavily edited. This is a classic case of UFC's hyping a fighting Mexican vs. a monstrous brute. Of course they're going to focus on Brock as a powerhouse, because that's how most fans see him. If you're going on the basis of this show, and not how Brock managed to finish his last two fights (both endings would have required SOME form of MMA training), then again, I don't know what to say to you. Other than see you after the 23rd.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I like the fact that Brock was willing to tell the film crew that they could not film him outside of training. I am not saying this has any indication on the fight, just that it seems like he really has his life in order. He fights, and he has a family. Cain is being run arround like a side show and put on display, I wonder how that is affecting his training. Sure it looks great in an edited video, but does he still have the time and equipment available to keep up his training when they are flying him to FL to be on some hispanic show, etc?

Just more variables for the odds makers to concern themselves with. I am still confident that this could be the best HW fight ever in the UFC.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

cdtcpl said:


> I like the fact that Brock was willing to tell the film crew that they could not film him outside of training. I am not saying this has any indication on the fight, just that it seems like he really has his life in order. He fights, and he has a family. Cain is being run arround like a side show and put on display, I wonder how that is affecting his training. Sure it looks great in an edited video, but does he still have the time and equipment available to keep up his training when they are flying him to FL to be on some hispanic show, etc?
> 
> Just more variables for the odds makers to concern themselves with. I am still confident that this could be the best HW fight ever in the UFC.


It doesn't affect cain at all. Brock uses the time out side of the GYM to hunt.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

guy incognito said:


> It doesn't affect cain at all. Brock uses the time out side of the GYM to hunt.


Actually he said that when he enters his training camp he doesn't hunt. All he does is train.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

cdtcpl said:


> Actually he said that when he enters his training camp he doesn't hunt. All he does is train.


O rly?






lol I kid, but i highly doubt Brock does not participate in any other activities or hobbies even during training camps.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> Where can I watch episode 2 online?





guy incognito said:


> i also would like to know












ENJOY FELLAS! :thumbsup:


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

Toxic said:


> You know after a while you just get plain silly. You make zero acknowledgement of the fact that Lesnar A) actually has some skills or that B) the guys is an insane specimen of a human being. After awhile people just quit paying attention because your clearly just going to blindly hug to Cain's nuts and hate on Lesnar regardless of what you see or anyone else says. I get it Cain is in reality 7 feet tall, he catches bullets with his teeth, can bench press 10,000 pounds, run a one minute mile, well actually he can run 500 consecutive 1 minute miles because his speed and cardio are that impressive.


 i never said all brock did was lift weights.


i said thats all they show and you are writing ridic things like "Brock is a scary man" based off what you saw on this show, but they havent shown Brock do anythign but lift weights and run sprints.... ZOMG he is so scary, he can lift weights and run sprints and he really, really big!!


yep, u all on that zuffa hype. The only time Brock looked really impressive in a fight is Mir 2. He didnt look that great vs Herring, Randy or Carwin but you making it sound like he steamrolls the world on this "physical specimen" nonsense.




sure he is a big dude with lots of muscles, i acknowledge that.

sure he is a great pure wrestler, i acknowledge that


great MMA fighter?? no, not by a long shot.


your post proves what im saying, you talking about Cain running this, catching that.... all im talking about is fighting, fighting skills, nothing more, nothing less, i could care less who lifts more, runs faster, eats better, cuts more weight, has more kids, makes more $ etc, i dont care.


i dont care. he isnt the better fighter and you will see that clearly on the 23rd.

(dont tell me that applying one of the most basic arm chokes in BJJ on a totally gassed opponent means you are learning BJJ on some sick fast level)


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> O rly?
> 
> lol I kid, but i highly doubt Brock does not participate in any other activities or hobbies even during training camps.


Actually I do believe him. He is fronting way too much of his own money to try to make this his full time job to risk screwing it up by taking time off to hunt, etc. So for his 8 weeks, or whatever, his specific hardcore body prep training period is, I believe him when he says he doesn't hunt or anything else during that period.

I'm not saying he doesn't hunt or other crap, just during this specific period prior to a fight.


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Aye, E Lit Er Ate, you're a good guy whom I tend to like, but don't be ridiculous, mate. If you truly believe that all Brock does is lift weights and run sprints, then I don't know what to say to you. What do we know about all UFC produced shows like TUF, Prime Time, and even Countdowns? They're all heavily edited. This is a classic case of UFC's hyping a fighting Mexican vs. a monstrous brute. Of course they're going to focus on Brock as a powerhouse, because that's how most fans see him. If you're going on the basis of this show, and not how Brock managed to finish his last two fights (both endings would have required SOME form of MMA training), then again, I don't know what to say to you. Other than see you after the 23rd.


This.
Brock has 40 pounds over Cain, is huge as hell and looks like a beast. Imagine how would it look, if you were watching Primetime and saw Cain doing the stuff he does, and then you see Brock doing the same, some ground work, and above all, looking like an animal. The UFC will always hype the fight so that people think that the match-up is even, or atleast close to that. The same was for Silva-Maia. Everyone knew how the fight will play out, but the UFC made atleast a few think that Maia is the god of BJJ, and when he gets you to the ground, your done (he's good, no doubt, but far from the point where it's done when you hit the mat).
It's quite obvious Brock is preparing for all aspects of the game. If you think he only does what you see he does, then I guess you think he hasn't trained any BJJ, barely done stand-up and called-up Pat Barry just to tool him with take downs and lay a bit of GnP on him.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

the proof is in the pudding, write all you want.

hilarious comparison, yea cuz Brock is overmatching Cain with skills everywhere like Anderson was Maia.

Actually, Brock is in Maias position, we know what he wants to do, he wants the fight on the ground, everywhere else, he will lose.

UFC hypes Lesnar up as "once you hit the mat its over" and so do his fans. Funny comparison cuz Lesnar fits in perfectly for Maia in that comparison and Cain fits in nicely as Anderson being the much better striker, more well rounded and much quicker.


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> the proof is in the pudding, write all you want.
> 
> hilarious comparison, yea cuz Brock is overmatching Cain with skills everywhere like Anderson was Maia.
> 
> Actually, Brock is in Maias position, we know what he wants to do, he wants the fight on the ground, everywhere else, he will lose.


My point was that it's more likely that the UFC will hype it as a "Big, strong guy vs fast, technical guy", even though, and not only for Brock, but for Cain too.
Never said it was like Silva-Maia, just gave an example of UFC hyping up a fight.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

^^^ Just like when they promoted Hardy as having perfect boxing so that he would stand a chance against GSP...

I guarantee you the Lesnar is working very hard on his weaknesses and not just lifting weights. He didn't bring in Pat Barry so that he could have someone he can pin to the ground and beat the crap out of... In the few short clips of him boxing you can already see an improvement in his fluidity, simplification and he has always had the power. He isn't going to be a K1 champ but all he needs to do is get his striking to a mediocre level and he will be very difficult to beat. You can't outwrestle him and if you plan on submitting him off your back you are in for a world of hurt.

Another thing that I have noticed and that Morgan commented on is that Lesnar is in his best fighting shape. He has actually slimmed down a bit and is doing quick reps with less weight to build cardiovascular endurance. He is getting faster and doesn't hesitate near as much as he used to(striking or in his takedowns etc). 

Lesnar wants to be the best and he is working hard to achieve that. I wish Cain the best of luck but I don't know that he can overcome the size and strength difference.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Lesnar will get this fight to the ground. He has a clear size advantage here, is in superb shape and will not be suffering from any cage rust. Lesnar is taking superb wrestlers like Cole Konrad down with ease in training, there is no doubt in my mind that he'll be able to get Velasquez to the mat. People can write Brock Lesnar off as much as they like, they can claim everyone in the HW division has a better skill set than him, but Brock Lesnar is keeping the Heavyweight title, and I see him demolishing Cain Velasquez. Then it'll be JDS's turn.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

for the last time so the 10th person in a row doesnt come in and yell at me again.


i dont think Lesnar only lifts weights... DUH......


i said THATS ALL THEY ARE SHOWING, yet all you Lesnar fans are saying things like "ZOMG brock is scary" and making it sound like cuz they showed him lifting weights that Cain has no chance, which is a joke.


Im sure Lesnar working hard on his standup.

Thing is, so is Cain.

Cain has only been in MMA 9 months longer than Lesnar and both are from a strictly wrestling background (well Lesnar did do that WWE stuff too).

You tell me who is picking up striking quicker?? or transitions??

you tell me who has added more to their game from just wrestling and who still will depend on wrestling for every fight??

ppl keep saying Brock is this athlete, brock is this freak. He should be picking up the game faster than guys who are just "small, pillow fisted LHWs", right??

we will see who is the freak soon, you guys may think im a fool now, that will change.


Come the 24th, either i dug myself such a big hole and you can enjoy laughing at me.......


or you have to accept you didnt see the most talented HW in the world, right before your eyes and were blinded by ZUFFA hype regarding a very one dimensional great wrestler, not some MMA revolution.

The future is right in front of you, high level wrestlers with great kickboxing, good BJJ, real MT skills and blazing speed and cardio.

Its all right there, and its all gonna smack you in the face like a mack truck on the 23rd.


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

The thing is though, even though you say you know Brock is working on his game, you obviously don't see the force to be reckoned with.
You say come 24th we either laugh at you or you laugh at us.. How come? We (well, me personally) have never discredited Cain, why should we laugh at you for making a statement that Cain could/will win? You're entitled to your opinion. We know Cain too is a force to be reckoned with, and above that, we don't say that he has no chance. BUT, we also see who Brock is.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

I've not been blinded by any ZUFFA hype. I couldn't care less what they show on the Primetime show. Brock Lesnar is a bad motherfucker irrespective of any countdown or primetime shows. Just look at him, he's a monster, and that's why I'll never bet against him. Ultimately this is a fight. Cain can run on a treadmill as long as he likes, he can spar with Daniel Cormier, Jon Fitch, Josh Koscheck and Mike Swick as often as he likes and talk about how humble he is as much as he likes; but come October 24th, when he's got a 6ft5, 275lb bearded up badass charging at him at full speed that all disappears. Cain isn't putting Brock Lesnar away. He isn't knocking him out and he definitely isn't submitting him, which means he has to survive 25 minutes in a locked metal cage with Brock Lesnar, without getting his face pounded in. Good luck. I'm glad I'll be watching, I wouldn't want to be Cain Velasquez.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

Lesnar might improve. Lesnar turtled, something anathema to striking, backpedalled while blind, also very very bad, and against a known uppercut favored fighter. The high guard he was using was a retarded choice and showed zero striking sense and instinctual fear. I think he'll improve but to match them currently its one sided.

The biggest difference is agility.


Brock is pretty fast, i guess comparable to Cain.

Agility??? its an off the charts advantage for Cain. Bigger than the size advantage Lesnar enjoys.

Anyways, im saying it should be fairly decisive but this is HW MMA, so obviously nothing is certain.

Brocks reach and power is his Xfactor imo, he needs to land something solid that Cain doesnt see coming and really capitilize quick, i cant see him winning many other ways or perhaps getting a TD near the fence and getting Cain is a position he couldnt squirm out of, thats a tough proposition i thinnk the punch is more likely.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Danm2501;1283153[B said:


> ]*I've not been blinded by any ZUFFA hype. I couldn't care less what they show on the Primetime show. Brock Lesnar is a bad motherfucker irrespective of any countdown or primetime shows. Just look at him, he's a monster, and that's why I'll never bet against him. *[/B]Ultimately this is a fight. Cain can run on a treadmill as long as he likes, he can spar with Daniel Cormier, Jon Fitch, Josh Koscheck and Mike Swick as often as he likes and talk about how humble he is as much as he likes; but come October 24th, when he's got a 6ft5, 275lb bearded up badass charging at him at full speed that all disappears. Cain isn't putting Brock Lesnar away. He isn't knocking him out and he definitely isn't submitting him, which means he has to survive 25 minutes in a locked metal cage with Brock Lesnar, without getting his face pounded in. Good luck. I'm glad I'll be watching, I wouldn't want to be Cain Velasquez.


You say you havnt bought into the hype and then come out with quotes like that?! Honestly how many times do you hear Joe Rogan, Mike Goldberg, Dana White and the rest of the crew describe Brock as this "freak of nature", "lunchbox fists", "animal savage, monster". Its like yourself and others have been completely brain washed by this nonsense. Its hype and nothing more.

Brock is a monster, brock is a freak, brock is the baddest man on the planet, tell me, would the baddest man on the plaent really turn away after getting punched in the face, literally turn and run away?! Argh, comments like that just make me cringe.

Hes big, hes got muscles and a beard, are you people really that naive to think that this makes him some unstoppable fighting machine, the baddest man on the planet?!

He was shown clearly to be very human in the carwin fight, the couture fight and the first Mir fight. This man really isnt this monster you all think is and you're going to be kicking yourself for thinking so on the 23rd.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

The only thing I've 'bought into' are Lesnar's last two performances. What he did to Frank speaks for itself. No one can dispute that. And I'm sorry to say it, but it was much more impressive than what Cain was able to do against an over-the-hill Big Nog. People give Brock hell for what happened with Shane, but again, I don't see the downside in triumphing over adversity. Brock came back from a beating and won via submission. Some might actually call that a positive. And launching that whole 'You're buying into the hype' nonsense works both ways. You're spending your money as though it were going out of style on the basis that they're showing more clips of Cain 'training' than they are of Brock. Talk about buying into UFC's hype machine. You're doing precisely what you're accusing everyone else of doing.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

This second Primetime episode didn't really show that many new things.
Brock is a huge powerful human. The way he was running thru people, and taking them down. like they were puppets - impressive. 
Not much to say about Cain. They didn't show anything.
For now, my conclusion is: Cain has to do what Carwin did. Hurt Brock on the feet and follow him on the ground with heavy GnP. If Brock gets Cain down and has top control-it' bad bad news for Cain.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

here you go Brock fans.


A short vid of Brock showing off his incredible speed bag and heavy bag skills, enjoy 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyr0JX70ROE&feature=player_embedded







after watching that, im getting kinda worried 

what a quick learner, the revolution of MMA is here!!! (wish i had that flying knee GIF vs herring too!!)

btw, i have no trouble saying my 6 year old son has better hands than Brock Lesnar in terms of technique, speed angle creation and footwork, and no, i doubt my son is the next JCC, he has only been training boxing for 8 months.


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

Im not buying into the Zuffa hype, ive accually been a fan of Brocks in a way since college. i had heard of him and his record, i used to be into pro wrestling and when he first came into it i was a fan, i followed how he did in his NFL tryouts and finally was a fan as soon as he came into MMA, hell i still have his K-1 Dynamite! fight on my Tivo. call me a fanboy or whatever, but i am not just buying into the Zuffa hype as you call it, i been watching him loooooong before that.




BTW im drinking a Zyience Zenergy drink right now cuz UFC told me too. Not because this Cherry Lime taste awesome, but because the UFC told me too.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

imma tell you the real reason they dont show Brock sparring and its not the silly ones you ppl mentioned.


he looks half retarded. same when he is seriously hitting the bags.


Hard to sell a fight with one guy who looks like a rock'em sock'em robot on his feet.


so they just hype up his size and his ground game, both of which deserve hype.

They show Cain hitting pads and bags cuz he is seriously impressive doing so. He isnt that impressive lifting 100 pounds less than Brock or doing a billion weird sit ups like Brock does or swinging that rope thing like a madman like Brock does. Cain wouldnt look that great doing any of that. 

He only looks good doing actual fighting techniques. Good thing they are gonna fight, huh?


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> The only thing I've 'bought into' are Lesnar's last two performances. What he did to Frank speaks for itself. No one can dispute that. And I'm sorry to say it, but it was much more impressive than what Cain was able to do against an over-the-hill Big Nog. People give Brock hell for what happened with Shane, but again, I don't see the downside in triumphing over adversity. Brock came back from a beating and won via submission. Some might actually call that a positive. And launching that whole 'You're buying into the hype' nonsense works both ways. You're spending your money as though it were going out of style on the basis that they're showing more clips of Cain 'training' than they are of Brock. Talk about buying into UFC's hype machine. You're doing precisely what you're accusing everyone else of doing.


This, this, this and this. Well said Sir!


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

limba said:


> ENJOY FELLAS! :thumbsup:


Thanks, man. Would rep, but it says I gotta spread rep around.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate you really should quit trolling before you get this account banned, at this point in the thread you have said everything you have to say at least 5 times over and now you are just looking more and more like a huge troll/tool.



Mckeever said:


> O rly?
> 
> lol I kid, but i highly doubt Brock does not participate in any other activities or hobbies even during training camps.


Well I believe you are wrong and that you assume when Brock said all he dose is train and that no he dose not hunt or fish ect is a lie, that right there shows just how deep your bias is. 

For a guy that said I have some kind of hate seeping through in my posts about this fight you are suffering from a little seepage yourself.:thumb02:


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

This has kinda got out of hand... everyone is more skilled in certain areas than others, and not many people are fair in their opinions of fighters.

Anderson Silva is not a wreslter - Sonnen wrestled the shit out of him for 4 rounds, but ultimately Silva got the submission, and in doing so retains his legendary status in most peoples eyes.

Brock Lesnar is not a kickboxer - if Cain keeps the fight standing and outpoints Brock for 4 rounds, but then Brock finally gets a takedown and wins via TKO/submission, what status will Lesnar gain from that in most peoples eyes?

I am in no way saying Brock's skills are comparable to Anderson's, they are completely different fighters. What I'm saying is, no matter how dominant or well rounded you are as a fighter, eventually someone will find a way to beat you up, or at least outpoint you. But if that someone doesn't win the fight, then ultimately, they have not found a way to defeat you, and they do not posess the necessary skills to defeat you.

Sonnen wants a rematch, but he'll be at a massive disadvantage, because his near-fight-winning gameplan is now known by everyone, and Silva would most definately be training to nullify that gameplan. And so Sonnen is back to square one, as Carwin will be should he fight Lesnar again.

Lesnar does not need to be a better kickboxer than Cain to win this fight. Likewise, Cain does not need to best Lesnar's personal talents to win this fight. It's about knowing how to make the fight favour your skills. Long post I know.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Very good post sm33 solid points and I agree with most of them. I think you deserve some +rep for being insightful and articulate.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

not rly.

only a fool didnt know what Sonnens gameplan vs Silva was, he has the same gameplan every fight and even told everybody he was gonna "put Anderson on his prissy ass and beat a hole in him"

it wasnt some revelation Anderson was unprepared for whatsoever.


Just like we all know Brocks gameplan, he wants to take you down, control you and pound you out with hammerfists.


Its not a shock either and i would be immensely disappointed in Cains training and him as a fighter if that wasnt what he was preparing himself for.


The same way i would be embarrassed if Anderson didnt prepare properly for Sonnen, it wasnt some industry secret what he would try to do.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> imma tell you the real reason they dont show Brock sparring and its not the silly ones you ppl mentioned.
> 
> 
> he looks half retarded. same when he is seriously hitting the bags.
> ...


lol, who's denying that Cain is the better striker? Not I. Brock probably would be silly to stand and trade, not that Cain's power worries me. If Carwin couldn't do it, Cain won't. What I will argue, however, is that Cain's boxing isn't going to matter whatsoever, because he'll be on his back within seconds of the opening bell. And if Brock sees fit to keep the fight there, rest assured he will. That said, I'm officially done with this back and forth. I'll never convince you. You'll never convince me. Time will answer all of our questions soon enough.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> not rly.
> 
> only a fool didnt know what Sonnens gameplan vs Silva was, he has the same gameplan every fight and even told everybody he was gonna "put Anderson on his prissy ass and beat a hole in him"
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure AS was surprised when Sonnen banged with him and rocked him first before going to the announced gameplan.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

> not rly.
> 
> only a fool didnt know what Sonnens gameplan vs Silva was, he has the same gameplan every fight and even told everybody he was gonna "put Anderson on his prissy ass and beat a hole in him"
> 
> ...


Yes of course, but in the Silva/Sonnen fight for example, it was impossible for Anderson Silva to go into that fight with wrestling skill equal to Sonnen's, the takedown was always going to happen. What he did do however was train on Jiu Jitsu, which he is more skilled at than Sonnen, and trained for the situation. He trained his own skills and learned how to adapt those skills to Sonnen's fight, rather than trying to match Sonnen's skills.

You talk about only seeing Brock lift weights and grapple in the Primetime videos, but one of his trainers clearly states in the 2nd episode that Brock does not want his training to be revealed.

You'd be shocked if Cain wasn't preparing for the takedown and wrestling/jiu jitsu, considering he's fighting Brock Lesnar, but Primetime has mainly showed him hitting pads and stand up sparring... so by your logic of Brock lifting weights and not doing much else, cus thats what Primetime showed, I guess Cain is just boxing and racking up miles on the exercise bike? Which will help loads against Brock... not likely is it.

I think Cain is a threat to Brock, and although he has more fights, he has not proven himself against the same caliber of competition to warrant massive favoritism in this fight.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

slapshot said:


> E Lit Er Ate you really should quit trolling before you get this account banned,


You called it, +rep


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Alizio didn't last long did he. but probably just a temporary


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

lol it was figured out in the premium lounge who it was, funny to see that regs also had him peg'd!


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## BD3 (Jun 8, 2010)

War Brock "the Viking" Lesnar!!!


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

guy incognito said:


> Alizio didn't last long did he. but probably just a temporary


Nope when your banned and you sign up a new account then its instantly a reason to be banned. Permanently. Both accounts are gone for at least a year.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

BD3 said:


> War Brock "the Viking" Lesnar!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

cixot said:


> actually i could endlessly make new accounts and use proxy IP or a variety of different ways like i have in the past but i grew tired of that and purposely put E Lit out there so you know its me.
> 
> I just wanted to come back and not be an ass anymore, no way to really contact you guys and make amends so i thought instead of being "sneaky" i could just be me but in a more civil way......
> 
> ...





cixot said:


> somebody needs to embed that video, it is seriously an INSTANT CLASSIC.
> 
> Its funny Brocks sponsors put it together, they should be fired, they made him look like a complete joke.
> 
> He looked like a Polar Bear trying to use a cellphone when he was on that speed bag.



LOL

Coming back from a two banned accounts with a double post. Had to laugh at that.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Brock training like a warrior and Cain eating fish tacos. 

Brock by HULK SMASH!

Edit - Or is Brock Thor now...?


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