# somthing about the knee in Koscheck-Daley



## Guymay (Jul 6, 2009)

I seen this GIF in ug and altough big dan blocks the view abit , i think that the Right knee of daley was the one hitting Kos and not the knee they showed on the replay . 

what's you guys think ? :confused02:

Edit :


----------



## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

I think you're right.


----------



## mratch19 (Nov 19, 2007)

from the timing of koschecks reaction id have to agree. regardless the mark was from the knee connecting in some way.


----------



## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

I agree.


----------



## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Wow dude I do see that now that you mention it. Maybe Kos wasn't just being an idiot. im sure he wasn't as hurt as he thought but from that angle you can see what looks like his right knee retracting from an illegal shot before the big swing and miss with the left one.

I doubt we will ever know for sure but yeah that is interesting. Good find dude plus rep.


----------



## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

take that all you kos haters! Guess he wasnt lieing.


----------



## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Holy shit, I do see that, wow.


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

I can't really see anything. Even if that knee did connect, it had no power behind it. So Kos is still a woman for faking how hurt he was.


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

it does look like he got him with the right knee but that right knee was weak at best. Koscheck overreacted even if the right knee did connect.


----------



## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Wow, so he actually got hit with an illegal knee. It wasn't the worst hit I've seen, but still illegal. His head bounced back and he unintentionally dodges the big left knee because he's campagning for a point deduction as Rogan said. I guess he's not as full of sh*t as I thought...


----------



## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

That knee actually hit him around the inner eye/nose, After the knee, you could see a small small cut where that knee hit. Nobody seemed to catch that on fight night.


----------



## morninglightmt (Sep 7, 2008)

hard to see if that right knee was even intentional or if he was just getting his feet planted and Kos hit his head on the knee as he was driving forward.


----------



## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

morninglightmt said:


> hard to see if that right knee was even intentional or if he was just getting his feet planted and Kos hit his head on the knee as he was driving forward.


That knee does look unintentional, seems like Kos is trying to go for his legs at the same time Daley is planting for that second knee that missed. I think it was mainly the follow in for the knee and kos moving forward as well that made the impact.

and the funny part is that I doubt the ref would have seen that, bad move by Daley in even attempting to throw the knee. bunch of what if's here, what if he didnt throw the knee? would he win the fight with kos backing away like that? would he get cut from the ufc? would he get facing gsp now?

lol


----------



## Icculus (Oct 4, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> That knee actually hit him around the inner eye/nose, After the knee, you could see a small small cut where that knee hit. Nobody seemed to catch that on fight night.


No that cut on the bridge of the nose is visible before Kos takes his back (before the knee). Im 100% positive of that. There's a little scrape at the top middle of his forehead that is likely the result of the knee. The cut on the nose is from an elbow from the bottom I think.


----------



## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

Nice gif. Yeah he def. got hit with the first knee and it seems his reaction of turning to the judge made the second knee miss.


----------



## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

Anybody have gifs of different angles? Because in watching replays from different angles without Mirg in the way it looks like Daley is just hoping back. If the right knee did hit Kos it was only like a inch of travel (and to me it doesn't look like it does at all).


----------



## munkie (Sep 28, 2009)

I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing it. The timing of Koscheck's reaction is all wrong for the knee that they showed over and over. But I'm still not seeing the knee that you talk about. I see where Kos's has his faced pressed against Daley's leg while he's trying to get up. But I don't see any knee landing that would match the reaction. I'm not defending Kos, I think he's a total douchenozzle so I was sure he was just being a baby and playing to get a point taken away. But now that I see this GIF, the timing is way wrong but I don't see the right knee that you speak of. Regardless, Kos is still a game playing whiner in my book, but I would like it if someone could point out what I'm obviously missing.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

munkie said:


> I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing it. The timing of Koscheck's reaction is all wrong for the knee that they showed over and over. But I'm still not seeing the knee that you talk about. I see where Kos's has his faced pressed against Daley's leg while he's trying to get up. But I don't see any knee landing that would match the reaction. I'm not defending Kos, I think he's a total douchenozzle so I was sure he was just being a baby and playing to get a point taken away. But now that I see this GIF, the timing is way wrong but I don't see the right knee that you speak of. Regardless, Kos is still a game playing whiner in my book, but I would like it if someone could point out what I'm obviously missing.


Right when Dan pulls away you can see Daleys knee pulling back from Kos face and Kos head bouncing back. :thumbsup:


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Good catch. I was pretty sure something connected because he was cut at this time and that was definitely a knee that made contact.


----------



## thrshr01 (Dec 30, 2007)

Wow, good catch. You can see his head bounce back from the knee and he was already pulling his head back and turning to the ref while the second (left) knee was being thrown. For those who says it was a weak knee, don't let your hate for Kos blind you. An illegal knee, is an illegal knee. It doesn't matter if it was weak or not.


----------



## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

Nice to see Kos vindicated both times he has been accused of lying.


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Freiermuth said:


> Nice to see Kos vindicated both times he has been accused of lying.


Doesn't change the fact that he fakes the extent of his injuries.


----------



## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Great find.


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Damn...Kos needs to put this on his websit. Looks like he wasn't faking.


----------



## StandThemUp (May 30, 2008)

Sorry, but I don't see it as quite that obvious. A few people are saying "Nice Find" as if it's no longer in doubt. But from that angle it's anything but clear and obvious what happened.

And with that obvious and radical edit/splice between the camera two angles, it's impossible to tell how much time is between that right knee and that overly dramatic reaction.

To me it looks like Kos is trying to get up and Paul is pulling away and jumping back. While Paul is hoping up to plant his legs, Kos is pulling his head back so he can stand. Then it switches angles and you see the now imfamous whiff and whine.

The problem is, The Whiff and Whine is just as likely as what the original poster is suggesting. And you can't tell which is true from the limited camera angles.

So, if you like an dumb ass idiot like Kos, you will believe he got hit with the right.
And if you don't like the dumb ass, jock-headed kos, you will believe it was a total whiff and lame acting job.

Since it's about 50/50, half of us think he is a lying prink, half of us think he is a prick that is telling the truth.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

wow... a lot of people like me and joe rogan owe kos an apology. He took a lot of grief for that knee.


----------



## NotDylan (Jul 13, 2009)

MikeHawk said:


> Doesn't change the fact that he fakes the extent of his injuries.


Ever been kneed in the face? How about have a finger jammed into your eye? How do you know he was exaggerating?



> Sorry, but I don't see it as quite that obvious. A few people are saying "Nice Find" as if it's no longer in doubt. But from that angle it's anything but clear and obvious what happened.


It's there. Also, if you watch the fight again, you'll notice Kos has no blood on his nose when he's going for the choke (which happened right before Daley got up and threw the knees) but immediately after, the bridge of his nose is bloodied. He got hit.

I don't like the guy but I'm starting to sound like a Kos fan :thumb02:


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

There's no evidence the knee landed at all. His head moves back and that's all you can see. If anything Kos's face was pushing into Daley's knee.



> Ever been kneed in the face? How about have a finger jammed into your eye? How do you know he was exaggerating?


Because he's a fighter. He's been hit with fists to the face. I don't think a little brush with a knee, if it did land, would hurt him to the point where he covers his face and lays down.
Also, he was campaigning for a point deduction. If he never saw that second knee miss him, there wouldn't have been an issue. He was doing it to be a dick.


----------



## NotDylan (Jul 13, 2009)

MikeHawk said:


> There's no evidence the knee landed at all.


He's got a bloody nose that wasn't bloody 10 seconds earlier.


----------



## Guymay (Jul 6, 2009)

here good pic of what happened .










to people who say the knee was unintentionally , you can see the leg taking swing , maybe it wasn't powerful one , but definitely a swing .


----------



## Icculus (Oct 4, 2009)

NotDylan said:


> It's there. Also, if you watch the fight again, you'll notice Kos has no blood on his nose when he's going for the choke (which happened right before Daley got up and threw the knees) but immediately after, the bridge of his nose is bloodied. He got hit.
> 
> I don't like the guy but I'm starting to sound like a Kos fan :thumb02:


THIS^^^^ IS NOT TRUE. Blood from the cut on the bridge of the nose is clearly visible when kos is taking Daley's back. I watched it in 720 HD and could definitely see that blood on the nose and I think it came from an elbow Daley threw off of his back a minute or so before he took his back.

After the knee there is a little blood on the top of his forehead that wasnt there before. And in the post fight interview you can see the brush burn looking scar there. 

So Im guessing that he was either grazed by the big knee or inadvertently grazed by his other knee as suggested by the OP. He complained because he must have thought it was a blatant knee and he did feel it. Then in his post fight interview he said he didnt know if it was a knee or a fist because the replay that was shown showed no real contact ,but he did feel the shot (and the blood on the forehead proves that).

He definitely made it seem worse than it was, but he definitely did get hit hard enough to cause a small cut on his forehead so what are you gonna do? I bash Mirgliotta a lot but the guy did get the call right. Way to use the replay even when you're not supposed to Dan!


----------



## NotDylan (Jul 13, 2009)

Go to 5:30, I don't see any blood. http://www.mma-core.com/videos/__HQ_Josh_Koscheck_vs_Paul_Daley_UFC_113?vid=10010758&tid=100

I could be wrong but I certainly don't see it.


----------



## Icculus (Oct 4, 2009)

NotDylan said:


> Go to 5:30, I don't see any blood. http://www.mma-core.com/videos/__HQ_Josh_Koscheck_vs_Paul_Daley_UFC_113?vid=10010758&tid=100
> 
> I could be wrong but I certainly don't see it.


you cant really see it in that video because the resolution is too low but I assure you that the blood is definitely there. I have the fight in 720p and can clearly see it. Ive watched in slo mo and paused it and its DEFINITELY there before Kos takes Daley's back. 

I could also see a little bit of blood on Daley's shoulder where Kos buried his face a little while after taking a nasty elbow from Daley. The elbow was at about 2:40 of the round I think. HD rocks!


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Why don't you take a picture of it Icculus? I never saw blood until after the knee as well.


----------



## Icculus (Oct 4, 2009)

420atalon said:


> Why don't you take a picture of it Icculus? I never saw blood until after the knee as well.


Can someone embed the good ones?

http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz64/Icculus716/vlcsnap-2010-05-15-01h55m20s78.png?t=1273903833

http://s814.photobucket.com/albums/...=vlcsnap-2010-05-15-01h55m08s203.png&newest=1
http://s814.photobucket.com/albums/...=vlcsnap-2010-05-15-01h56m47s152.png&newest=1

In this one you can see the fresh cut on the forehead that must have been caused by the right knee: http://s814.photobucket.com/albums/...=vlcsnap-2010-05-15-01h57m47s244.png&newest=1

http://s814.photobucket.com/albums/...t=vlcsnap-2010-05-15-01h54m51s29.png&newest=1

http://s814.photobucket.com/albums/...t=vlcsnap-2010-05-15-01h54m31s61.png&newest=1

http://s814.photobucket.com/albums/...t=vlcsnap-2010-05-15-01h52m45s46.png&newest=1

http://s814.photobucket.com/albums/...=vlcsnap-2010-05-15-01h52m29s115.png&newest=1


----------



## Icculus (Oct 4, 2009)

Also, upon further review I agree with the OP that it had to be the right knee because he was already bringing his hand to his head before the left knee was even close.


----------



## NotDylan (Jul 13, 2009)

Nice job on the pics :thumbsup:


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Icculus said:


> Can someone embed the good ones?
> ...


Here is one.










+ Rep, man even with those pics I can't see it in the video, such a little cut.

I still think contact was made though as it did open the cut up some more.


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

It wasn't an illegal knee Daley is jumping backwards to avoid a single leg by Kos. So basically you are saying Kos threw his own face into Daley's knee and then faked like he got fouled. Either way he wasn't hurt by any knee.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> It wasn't an illegal knee Daley is jumping backwards to avoid a single leg by Kos. So basically you are saying Kos threw his own face into Daley's knee and then faked like he got fouled. Either way he wasn't hurt by any knee.


Its fair to say that Eye pokes are usually accidents yet they are illegal. Alot of the times its the fighter coming in with a punch or something similar. Also what about when people are ground and pounding and the person turns his head and gets clipd in the back of the head. The ref tends to warn them about that. Whatever the reason is an illegal blow is an illegal blow.


----------



## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

I can't get over how clear it is now that he did get knee'd. Damn i definitly feel bad about giving him some shit on fight night. Glad the dude got the win though he definitly deserved it.


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

So his face running into Daley's knee vindicates him from being a ***** about it? The knee didn't hurt him at all. He could've kept fighting but he chose to rally for a point deduction instead.
Still don't like him.


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Its fair to say that Eye pokes are usually accidents yet they are illegal. Alot of the times its the fighter coming in with a punch or something similar. Also what about when people are ground and pounding and the person turns his head and gets clipd in the back of the head. The ref tends to warn them about that. Whatever the reason is an illegal blow is an illegal blow.


Actually no it isn't. The ref is warning them to be careful but a ton of blows are landing on the back of the head and no points are being taken. Because the person being hit is moving their head and causing it which makes it not a foul. Same thing applies here. You can't be on your knees grab the persons leg and start smashing your head into their knee and get points taken from them.


----------



## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

I see it, but still an overreaction.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> Actually no it isn't. The ref is warning them to be careful but a ton of blows are landing on the back of the head and no points are being taken. Because the person being hit is moving their head and causing it which makes it not a foul. Same thing applies here. You can't be on your knees grab the persons leg and start smashing your head into their knee and get points taken from them.


I dont know what your talking about.

First comes the warning. Second depending on how bad the blows are will either be another warning and then punishment or a point deduction.

Id like u to show me a fight where the guy just kept landing blows to the back of the head and the ref just ignored it. 

il give you an example of a ref stopping it though.
Brock vs Frank Mir (1)

Also your acting like he grabbed his leg and just started headbutting it...


----------



## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

It's there and it was definitely purposeful, you can see Daley contract his abs and arch his back a little which indicates the leg being raised rapidly, if Daley were trying to gain his footing his back would be arching the other way to maintain a sprawl position so Kos didn't go for a double leg takedown while Daley was standing up. I don't blame Kos for overreacting, if someone hits you with an illegal shot they should be penalized for it plain and simple.


----------



## Rachmunas (May 15, 2009)

I wonder if Dana or any other UFC employees know of this???? Maybe we all should Twitter Dana.


----------



## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Rachmunas said:


> I wonder if Dana or any other UFC employees know of this???? Maybe we all should Twitter Dana.


Maybe you should do that and we'll all stay here......


----------



## loci (Jun 2, 2007)

Wrestling fans of the tiny faced Koscheck are as delusional as the greasy reptilian himself.
They look at this gif as if it's been put through an esper photo analysis machine and the secrets of the davinci code have been revealed.

Maybe a sniper hiding behind a grassy knoll shot him just as the refs arm got in the way :sarcastic12:


----------



## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

loci said:


> Wrestling fans of the tiny faced Koscheck are as delusional as the greasy reptilian himself.
> They look at this gif as if it's been put through an esper photo analysis machine and the secrets of the davinci code have been revealed.
> 
> Maybe a sniper hiding behind a grassy knoll shot him just as the refs arm got in the way :sarcastic12:


Or maybe you're just blind because I'm not a Kos fan and I see the knee hit him........I'm going with that....


----------



## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

i see we are forgetting that kos was bloodied before the knees......no surprise kos is a funny guy. any info on the supposed greasing by daley? no? so now its the right knee not the left? it looked like kos went forward into the knee but its hard to tell and it might have been daley setting up tp hit him with the left knee when he caught him with the right.

either way who cares, his acting job was terrible and thats why points werent taken away. he reacted to the left knee and as far as anyone can tell he did not get hit by it.why are we trying so hard to vindicate kos? he gets to face gsp, if it happens a third time in a row then we have to wonder what this guy is really about.


----------



## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Thelegend said:


> i see we are forgetting that kos was bloodied before the knees......no surprise kos is a funny guy. any info on the supposed greasing by daley? no? so now its the right knee not the left? it looked like kos went forward into the knee but its hard to tell and it might have been daley setting up tp hit him with the left knee when he caught him with the right.
> 
> either way who cares, his acting job was terrible and thats why points werent taken away. he reacted to the left knee and as far as anyone can tell he did not get hit by it.why are we trying so hard to vindicate kos? he gets to face gsp, if it happens a third time in a row then we have to wonder what this guy is really about.


No kidding it's not like it was a split decision win for Kos.....he dominated Daley the entire fight.


----------



## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Life B Ez said:


> Or maybe you're just blind because I'm not a Kos fan and I see the knee hit him........I'm going with that....


that made me laugh. There really should be some form of indicator in sigs for those who are rational and those who are just haters or complete nuthuggers. Kos is a complete douchenozzle but Daley kneed him, it's not rocket science or some grassy gnoll theory, it's funny how emotion blinds some people so badly.


----------



## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

MikeHawk said:


> So his face running into Daley's knee vindicates him from being a ***** about it? The knee didn't hurt him at all. He could've kept fighting but he chose to rally for a point deduction instead.
> Still don't like him.


Koscheck hater? So first it was about him "faking"injury now you've found another way to hate on him some more? How do you know that it didn't hurt him? Are you Koscheck? No


----------



## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

Sousa said:


> *Koscheck hater?* So first it was about him "faking"injury now you've found another way to hate on him some more? How do you know that it didn't hurt him? Are you Koscheck? No


this made me lol, koscheck is so hated by most fans you have to ask "koscheck fan?" not hater, because that is the default these days. anyways you can call me a kos hater if you want, ever since he poked anthony johnson in the eye (thought it was intentional) ive had trouble being biased when wathing him fight. i just want him to get ktfo by gsp. if gsp does that there will be *nobody*that thinks he only does wrestling or that he is boring or takes no risks etc....


----------



## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

Thelegend said:


> this made me lol, koscheck is so hated by most fans you have to ask "koscheck fan?" not hater, because that is the default these days. anyways you can call me a kos hater if you want, ever since he poked anthony johnson in the eye (thought it was intentional) ive had trouble being biased when wathing him fight. i just want him to get ktfo by gsp. if gsp does that there will be *nobody*that thinks he only does wrestling or that he is boring or takes no risks etc....


See spoken like a true hater though. Intentional pokes,fakes injuries in every fight he has blah blah. Why even give an opinion? You'll do anything you can to make him look bad. You know whats also funny is taht if people do think GSP is boring and only does take downs then no one knows what they're talking about.


----------



## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

Sousa said:


> *See spoken like a true hater though. Intentional pokes,fakes injuries in every fight he has blah blah. Why even give an opinion? You'll do anything you can to make him look bad.* You know whats also funny is taht if people do think GSP is boring and only does take downs then no one knows what they're talking about.


you missed the sarcasm huh?:thumb02:

everyone dislikes a fighter and some go out of their way to hate. i see it all the time with rampage, the difference i don't go calling people who see things different haters. either way kos will lose to gsp- he would not even get the shot imo if thiago wanted it more. the guy is 13 and 1 with only one loss to fitch to make him 3 and 1 in the ufc. its a bad idea to make fights contender fights with only one true contender (kos) or none (swick/hardy). gsp will show the ufc why when tuf finally concludes.


----------



## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

I posted a link to this thread on Kos's site.


----------



## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

Thelegend said:


> you missed the sarcasm huh?:thumb02:
> 
> everyone dislikes a fighter and some go out of their way to hate. i see it all the time with rampage, the difference i don't go calling people who see things different haters. either way kos will lose to gsp- he would not even get the shot imo if thiago wanted it more. the guy is 13 and 1 with only one loss to fitch to make him 3 and 1 in the ufc. its a bad idea to make fights contender fights with only one true contender (kos) or none (swick/hardy). gsp will show the ufc why when tuf finally concludes.


I really don't care


----------



## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

Sousa said:


> *I really don't care*


youv'e made me a sad panda:confused05::sarcastic12:


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Sousa said:


> Koscheck hater? So first it was about him "faking"injury now you've found another way to hate on him some more? How do you know that it didn't hurt him? Are you Koscheck? No


Yes, I hate Koscheck as a person and I somewhat respect the skills he has. I never changed my opinion, all he did was move his face into Daley's knee. If he feels the need to lay down in agony and try to get a point deduction when he's already dominating the fight, then he gets no respect from me.

How do I know it didn't hurt him? Hmm, well usually when he gets hit with something much harder he doesn't cover his face in pain. How stupid do you have to be to believe his terrible acting?


----------



## beezer (Apr 30, 2010)

Really nice work here, both the right knee and the pics of the cut. I would say the knee definitely hits, although it is highly debatable whether it was intentional or not (shouldn't render a point deduction imo). I remember thinking the whole sequence looked a bit odd during the fight as well as you can clearly see that Kos start pulling away even before the big knee has been thrown.

In any case Daley blatantly did try to throw one hell of an intentional knee which is bad no matter if it hit or not. An on the other hand there is no denying that Kos is a master squinter, even after the blow was thrown after the whistle his first reaction was to sit down and squint some 

The whole thing was just a bit messy, but oddly entertaining. Especially Miragliotta almost taking Daley down.


----------



## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

I thought this when the fight was taking place.


----------



## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

tbh, I wish the second knee had connected and KTFO of him, sure Daley would of been DQ'ed but the sick think is, he as much worse that would of been than the cheap shot he threw after the fight it would not of got him a like time ban from the UFC.


----------



## ashokjr (Oct 15, 2006)

Following this keenly, Daley was just taking a step back. No way from that sequence of motion that the knee was to hit Kos.

Either way, illegal knee or not, Kos won it fair and square.


----------



## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

Yes I am a fan of Kos (but this was not Bernard Hopkins and his pathetic or rather incredible Academy award performance against a atrocious Jones) but it is almost incredible to be in the middle of a fight like that, all you fighters understand, and then just fake an injury in a fraction of a second, that is impossible. He would have to be setting up that knee and let it just miss him and then perform better than Hopkins (Anthony or Bernard, both superb actors). The odds are just too small for me to believe it, possible, yes. But Koscheck is a fighter and he deserves the benfit of the doubt, especially when he did not need to resort to cheap tactics to beat a guy he owned. Feel bad for Daley though he is a thug, it was not much of a punch, a 6month to 1 year suspension should have been enough.


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

First time i see it. Seems like Kos wasn't faking it.
Thnx man.


----------



## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

Even if he really did get hit, I would not of cared. If his head would of been sent flying and bounced off the cage I would not of cared. Kos is a punk.


----------



## out 4 the count (Oct 13, 2008)

Let's be honest here, it's not like Koscheck doesn't have form for this kind of thing...


----------

