# Lyoto Machida vs Mauricio 'Shogun' Rua 2 - The Rematch



## kickstar (Nov 12, 2009)

cant wait...


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Cool video, horrible music though......


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

thanks for the vid :thumbsup:

If you have a dream..


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Great video, the fight can't get here fast enough.

I was at the first one, only regret is I can't be there for the second.


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## Toroian (Jan 3, 2009)

Great video !! still cant wait for this fight arrgh

and the music works great with this video how can u say its bad? 

would it be better with some gay dance tune?


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## gwabblesore (May 2, 2007)

I would have liked more of a rock song or something. This was a cool video though.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Great video. 

The brawls we saw bits of in this video were almost as insane as the brawls that will break out on here after the rematch.


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## kickstar (Nov 12, 2009)




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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

^^This^^ is still by far the best Trailer I have seen so far from any upcoming fight! Totally amazing :thumbsup:


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## nathan.keith (Feb 2, 2010)

Awesome videos :thumbsup:

personally I think this is going to be the best fight I've ever seen. It's going to be crazy and there's no way I can try to call this one. Shogun is a master striker but lyoto is just as amazing. A fight with Lyoto is like a sword fight. He treats every shot like it'll kill you. He avoids contact like no other and when he strikes it's always a critical blow in the fight.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

I think Machida will adjust his game plan after the last fight, I think Shogun will come out trying to do more of the same from the last fight and try using lots of leg kicks and I think Machida will be ready for him this time round.

I would not be surprised if we see some of Machida very exclusive BJJ


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## TapUout1 (Feb 8, 2010)

kickstar said:


> cant wait...


Lyoto by tko via brand new gameplan.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> I would not be surprised if we see some of Machida very exclusive BJJ


mhh I like that :thumbsup:

I hope we will see some Takedowns as well^^

edit: I am pretty sure we will!


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## nathan.keith (Feb 2, 2010)

TapUout1 said:


> Lyoto by tko via brand new gameplan.



New gameplan? Please do share, I feel left out. If it hits the mat I think Lyoto has it. Shogun couldn't finish Coleman on the mat so I doubt he can handle Lyoto these days.


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## gwabblesore (May 2, 2007)

In the last fight Shogun had a perfect gameplan and Lyoto had a shit one. I'm very confident that Machida wins the rematch. He's going to be prepared to counter the "leg kick for the win" bullshit from the first fight.


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## 6toes (Sep 9, 2007)

I think Lyoto comes into this with the advantage because he learned a lot about Shogun and his gameplan in the last fight, whereas Shogun exposed an apparent weakness in Machida. But of course Machida will have addressed this apparent weakness and will be ready this time around.

If Shogun comes out with the same plan this time I think Machida takes it but if Shogun has managed to mix it up I give the win to Shogun.

Overall, my pick is Shogun by decision.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

gwabblesore said:


> I would have liked more of a rock song or something. This was a cool video though.


YEAH!!! ROCK'N'ROLL RAWRRRR!!!! you tool.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

gwabblesore said:


> In the last fight Shogun had a perfect gameplan and Lyoto had a shit one. I'm very confident that Machida wins the rematch. He's going to be prepared to counter the "leg kick for the win" bullshit from the first fight.


while he's planing on counter leg kicks shoguns gonna be punching him in the face... com'on guy use your head. if you think machida is the only one coming in with a new game plan than you're just being ignorant


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Machida going for take downs? If it goes to the ground, Shogun has the clear advantage, i wouldnt be surprised to see a sub from Rua if this happens, but it wont go to the ground. Shogun has Machidas timing down and knows he can take a punch from piss drinker. I expect him to soften the pee drinker up via leg kicks and body kicks and then in the later rounds come out very aggressive ala pride Shogun and KO him.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Machida going for take downs? If it goes to the ground, Shogun has the clear advantage, i wouldnt be surprised to see a sub from Rua if this happens, but it wont go to the ground. Shogun has Machidas timing down and knows he can take a punch from piss drinker. I expect him to soften the pee drinker up via leg kicks and body kicks and then in the later rounds come out very aggressive ala pride Shogun and KO him.


lol and where do you take this statement from?? Lyoto never lost to a submission, Rua twice already!

The only submission Rua ever had was a kneebar against a washed up Kevin Randelman.

Lyoto however has the far superior Takedowns and TDD defense, he decides where this fight takes place not Shogun. He wasn't even able to Take Lyoto down, when Lyoto slipped.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

chilo said:


> while he's planing on counter leg kicks shoguns gonna be punching him in the face... com'on guy use your head. if you think machida is the only one coming in with a new game plan than you're just being ignorant


You know I agree with popular sentiment in this thread, (that Machida's will adjust to greater effect), but I can't deny what you said. I recall Rua saying himself that he expects Lyoto to change his gameplan so he can't go into the fight doing the same thing.

So yeah, I'm totally pumped for this, and have absolutely no basis to make a prediction here. I'm just going to sit back, (or stand up) and watch this beauty unfold. I think this is probably the most talent we have seen in the Octagon at one time and could very well be one of the greatest fights ever.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> lol and where do you take this statement from?? Lyoto never lost to a submission, Rua twice already!
> 
> The only submission Rua ever had was a kneebar against a washed up Kevin Randelman.
> 
> Lyoto however has the far superior Takedowns and TDD defense, he decides where this fight takes place not Shogun. He wasn't even able to Take Lyoto down, when Lyoto slipped.


You know, BJJ isnt all about submissions you know. Its about transitioning and securing the dominant position which are very important when fighting on the ground. Rua has proved that throughout his career his JJ is top notch, we have seen very little of Machidas. Rua has beaten guys like Ricardo Arona,a highly regarded Ju Jitsu practitioner at his own game (JJ). Rua definetley has the advantage on the ground. The Griffin loss is void.

Lyoto doesnt have the far superior take downs and TDD. he has the edge n those areas, but they arnt greatly superior. Like i said, i highly doubt this will go to the ground any ways so it doesnt matter.

I'll just leave you with these;




























Shogun via KO 4th round.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> You know, BJJ isnt all about submissions you know. Its about transitioning and securing the dominant position which are very important when fighting on the ground. Rua has proved that throughout his career his JJ is top notch, we have seen very little of Machidas. Rua has beaten guys like Ricardo Arona,a highly regarded Ju Jitsu practitioner at his own game (JJ). Rua definetley has the advantage on the ground. The Griffin loss is void.
> 
> Lyoto doesnt have the far superior take downs and TDD. he has the edge n those areas, but they arnt greatly superior. Like i said, i highly doubt this will go to the ground any ways so it doesnt matter.


lol why did you post those pics?  I have seen the fight almost a dozen.^^

You need to watch some of Lyotos early fights, where he wasn't comfortable with his Karate! The UFC fights don't show his BJJ skills. Machida dominated and subbed a lot of guys on the ground he had some very entertaining ground fights, where he always had the upper hand.

Both Rua and Lyoto are BJJ black belts and I agree with you, it is very hard to judge them with each other but you definitely can't say that Rua has the advantage on the ground. We can't exactly tell who is better.

Lyoto has beaten two very well known Judokas at there own game in Nakamura and Soukodjo! This already tells a lot about his Takedowns. He tooled Tito at his own bread and butter.. I can go on if you want me too.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> lol why did you post those pics?  I have seen the fight almost a dozen.^^
> 
> You need to watch some of Lyotos early fights, where he wasn't comfortable with his Karate! The UFC fights don't show his BJJ skills. Machida dominated and subbed a lot of guys on the ground he had some very entertaining ground fights, where he always had the upper hand.
> 
> ...


I don't like Lyoto, but all your points are valid. I sort of hate how good (and rather versatile) he is.


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## Baby Jay D. (Apr 25, 2008)

What did Dana say to Shogun at the end of the fight?


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> lol why did you post those pics?  I have seen the fight almost a dozen.^^
> 
> You need to watch some of Lyotos early fights, where he wasn't comfortable with his Karate! The UFC fights don't show his BJJ skills. Machida dominated and subbed a lot of guys on the ground he had some very entertaining ground fights, where he always had the upper hand.
> 
> ...


Machida hasnt subbed lots of guys, im pretty sure he has two submission wins in his career. Ive seen a lot of his fights, his ground game is good, but it isnt as good as Shogun Rua's, trust me.

I never said any thing about Lyotos take downs, i said he has the edge in this area against Rua. Ive seen his Ortiz fight and Sokodjou, he has excellent sweep take downs no doubt. The question is will he utilise these take downs against Rua? I doubt it (and he still would struggle to take down Rua) and if it goes to the ground, he is at the disadvantage.

I posted those pics because i see very similar things happening in their second bout, only Rua coming out much more aggressive in the later rounds and hungry for the KO.

Out of curiosity how do you see Machida winning this fight Bobby?

Dana is telling Rua that he won the fight.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Baby Jay D. said:


> What did Dana say to Shogun at the end of the fight?


"that's effed up, you should have won...."


I actually don't know verbatim, but Dana's expressed that sentiment on record.


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## Baby Jay D. (Apr 25, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> Dana is telling Rua that he won the fight.





VolcomX311 said:


> "that's effed up, you should have won...."
> 
> 
> I actually don't know verbatim, but Dana's expressed that sentiment on record.


Thanks guys i'll rep you in a minute. I couldn't make out what he was saying. I thought he was saying "had you up a round" but the volume on my PC was pretty crap


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## cazwell (Feb 15, 2010)

The first in my opinion should of went Shoguns way, but there has been crazier decisions in the octagon. The rematch will bring out the best of both fighters, with Machida wanting to prove that he beat him hands down and to prove to everyone he can, and with Shogun wanting that belt. 

It'll be an interesting one and hell i can't wait.


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## Nikkolai (Jan 7, 2008)

I will just have to go with Shogun having a slight advantage on the ground but due to having seen less of Machida's ground game. Shogun is very slick off his back and in transitions. I still remember when Arona took Shogun down and right away, Shogun sunk in an omoplata. Lol even in the Chuck Liddell fight he went for a leg lock.

On the other hand, Lyoto is very versatile and trains to fight where ever it may be. It will be a good fight once again and I cannot wait to see it. It is so hard to choose when I like both fighters.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

All you can say is that neither of them are coming in with the same gameplan and Shogun knows that Lyoto is probably going to have the best leg kick D in ufc lol....


Machida said countless times that he knows Shogun is coming in with a new gameplan, and every fight is a different fight.

And its all a matter of opinion, and my opinion is that i think Machida learned A LOT about how there styles match up during that fight, and Shogun has more confidence that he can win.


I think Machida is going to come in with his more elusive style like his older fights, and make Shogun feel the pressure that he is going to lose again, and go back being a counter fighter instead of running into those nasty legs....

I believe the whole fight can change with one big shot from either opponent, and i cant wait for the outcome!

And to see Machida back without this Shogun monkey thing on his back lol


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Machida hasnt subbed lots of guys, im pretty sure he has two submission wins in his career. Ive seen a lot of his fights, his ground game is good, but it isnt as good as Shogun Rua's, trust me.
> 
> I never said any thing about Lyotos take downs, i said he has the edge in this area against Rua. Ive seen his Ortiz fight and Sokodjou, he has excellent sweep take downs no doubt. The question is will he utilise these take downs against Rua? I doubt it (and he still would struggle to take down Rua) and if it goes to the ground, he is at the disadvantage.
> 
> ...


Well Mc I see we won't find the same denominator here^^  but thats ok!

I see Lyoto winning the fight by a TKO/KO in the 3 bzw. 4 round! Or a clear unaniomous decision victory. But the KO is most likely!


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

Cool videos, but I'm not really that psyched for the rematch ... perhaps it's just because there are so many awesome fights to see before this one :thumbsup:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Well Mc I see we won't find the same denominator here^^  but thats ok!
> 
> I see Lyoto winning the fight by a TKO/KO in the 3 bzw. 4 round! Or a clear unaniomous decision victory. But the KO is most likely!


I'm almost 100 percent sure Machida will not KO or TKO Rua. I cant wait for this fight.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

I can't either. But I'm not going to approach 100% in terms of any sort of prediction.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> I'm almost 100 percent sure Machida will not KO or TKO Rua. I cant wait for this fight.


Yea thats why we both can't wait for this fight  It's just so unpredictable to call, wich makes it so fascinating!

It will be one of the best, if not the best fight of the year.

The tension is getting bigger and bigger^^


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

The only feeling i had after watching this trailer is sadness, the look in the eyes of Rua after he heard he lost. Such a shame for the judges.

Dana was the biggest winner here.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

swpthleg said:


> I can't either. But I'm not going to approach 100% in terms of any sort of prediction.


Rua has never been KO'd and i,am sure Machida is not going to be the first man to do so.

This fight is too far away. The LHW division is just so exciting in general. You have lil nog on the scene now and he is going to heat things up, then theres Bones Jons up and coming, so many future great match ups.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> Yea thats why we both can't wait for this fight  It's just so unpredictable to call, wich makes it so fascinating!
> 
> It will be one of the best, if not the best fight of the year.
> 
> The tension is getting bigger and bigger^^


machida wont ko shogun, nuff said.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> Rua has never been KO'd and i,am sure Machida is not going to be the first man to do so.
> 
> This fight is too far away. The LHW division is just so exciting in general. You have lil nog on the scene now and he is going to heat things up, then theres Bones Jons up and coming, so many future great match ups.


I was not referencing the possibility of a KO, or anything that specific. I was merely observing that this fight is hard to predict, especially given the razor-close decision in the first fight.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

chilo said:


> machida wont ko shogun, nuff said.


You just need to believe in Lyoto my friend  Just believe in him!



swpthleg said:


> I was not referencing the possibility of a KO, or anything that specific. I was merely observing that this fight is hard to predict, especially given the razor-close decision in the first fight.


^^This^^ But I already know swp, tief in deinem Herzen weißt du wer als Sieger hervorgehen wird!


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## neoseeker (Jun 16, 2007)

On the first fight Machida was the overwhelming favorite and I picked Shogun. On this fight I started to see the same thing, Machida fans are saying he learned from the first fight and has a new gameplan and all that. Well, I'm picking Shogun again even though this is a very close match. I'm not going into details here but let's say that both fighters have something to prove. Last year this was the most talked about match and I think we are going to see a repeat of that for this fight. Last, i'm in Northern Vermont and I'm already planning to go to Montreal.


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## Roybum (Oct 25, 2009)

I'm just hoping someone finishes the fight this time, and makes it epic. Although I am leaning towards shogun, I wouldn't mind seeing Machida win. It's because I used to take karate and he stands for a lot of great things.


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## Nikkolai (Jan 7, 2008)

Fourth round, double KO. :laugh: Machida with a counter to the chin and Rua with a nasty leg kick to the body.


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## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> lol and where do you take this statement from?? Lyoto never lost to a submission, Rua twice already!
> 
> The only submission Rua ever had was a kneebar against a washed up Kevin Randelman.
> 
> Lyoto however has the far superior Takedowns and TDD defense, he decides where this fight takes place not Shogun. He wasn't even able to Take Lyoto down, when Lyoto slipped.


Exactly, even on one leg Lyoto dictacted the fight. Rua was scared of Machida in the first fight always covering up and eating knees in a thai clinch that Machida never feared his puches cause he was too busy covering up. All Rua had were kicks thats why he lost and thats why he will lose again.


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## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

I will go out on the limb here and not change my pick for this fight.

I say Machida will win but decision. Regardless of what.. I still see this as a matchup problem for Shogun's style. Counter Puncher vs an aggressive striker.

Shogun proved me wrong(I believed he won that first fight) but nothing is gonna change. This fight is awesome because of the hype but styles make the difference.

Here's my prediction:
Fight will be slow with each fighter carefully picking shots and in the later rounds, Shogun will be more aggressive thus making him succeptible to counter punching of Machida.

I'm slowly wanting to see Machida lose because of the amount of bandwagon jumpers that is riding it. But it won't happen at the hands of Shogun. He's not a precise striker. He sometimes tend to swing for the fence(ALA Chute Box).

Safe bet.. Machida...
Gut feeling though Shogun will KO him. I WANT THIS FIGHT NOW!!!


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## Nikkolai (Jan 7, 2008)

machidaisgod said:


> Exactly, even on one leg Lyoto dictacted the fight. Rua was scared of Machida in the first fight always covering up and eating knees in a thai clinch that Machida never feared his puches cause he was too busy covering up. All Rua had were kicks thats why he lost and thats why he will lose again.


All he had was kicks?



Mckeever said:


>


Hey, that was a good move by Machida. He did the same thing Fedor did when he was hit hard. Instead of moving backwards and letting the opponent stay on the offensive, move towards the opponent and tangle him up to recover.

Covering up means he's scared? I thought it was because so he wouldn't get hit? That means Rashad and Thiago were fearless against Machida because they were eating his punches and that went well for them, :confused03:.


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## Rationalist (Oct 15, 2006)

I truly believe Machida is going to destroy shogun this time. KO 3rd round.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

neoseeker said:


> On the first fight Machida was the overwhelming favorite and I picked Shogun. On this fight I started to see the same thing, Machida fans are saying he learned from the first fight and has a new gameplan and all that. Well, I'm picking Shogun again even though this is a very close match. I'm not going into details here but let's say that both fighters have something to prove. Last year this was the most talked about match and I think we are going to see a repeat of that for this fight. Last, i'm in Northern Vermont and I'm already planning to go to Montreal.


Machida fans seem to think Shogun is going to come in with the exact same plan. New flash my friends, Shogun is watch film too. I've got Shogun again, I honestly think all Machida has is his karate, and let's all be honest, Muay Thai is the far superior striking style in actual fighting. Karate just looks cool....no offense to any karate guys but there is a reason Machida is only one using it. It plays extremely well to the style of fight he wants, it works well with his speed and movement, it doesn't work in the cage when someone can take you down or clinch you. I think we'll see a lot more clinch work from Shogun and I think this time around if he's got Machida hobbled he'll push him and finish the fight, he won't be as nervous about chasing him.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> Machida fans seem to think Shogun is going to come in with the exact same plan. New flash my friends, Shogun is watch film too.


Only part of Machida vulnerable to attack with his stance and movement has proved to be his legs, what else is Shogun going to do that's going to be as effective 



Life B Ez said:


> I've got Shogun again, I honestly think all Machida has is his karate


Machida has one of the most under rated ground games in MMA, I have never seen him not completely dominate in a fight that has gone to the ground using his BJJ



Life B Ez said:


> it doesn't work in the cage when someone can take you down or clinch you. I think we'll see a lot more clinch work from Shogun and I think this time around if he's got Machida hobbled he'll push him and finish the fight


Every time Shogun went for a clinch in the first fight Machida easily pushed it off and gave it as good has he got while in it



Life B Ez said:


> he won't be as nervous about chasing him.


How happy would that make Machida for Shogun to come chasing him, was probably the only reason Shogun did not get knocked out the first time round.

Do you know how many preternaturally fight ending strikes Shogun through in the first 3 rounds? _virtually none_

Face it Shogun employed a strategy that involved attacking nothing but Machida's legs for 3 rounds to effect his movement so he could move in to finish in the final 2 rounds. Only fcuk up was he failed to finish him in the final 2 rounds.

So because his plan was so well executed in the first 3 rounds, why did he not win any of those 3 rounds I hear you ask, injustice I hear you cry.

Because when 2 fighters spend the majority of the fight standing then effective striking is weighed first and effective grappling is weighed second, the longer time difference between Standing and fighting on the ground the more differential between the the 2 weights - This is not some bull I just made up this is official MMA scoring information, here to support the fact that since this fight never went to the ground not once, it was 100% weighed on effective striking.

Effective Striking is defined in the MMA scoring system, as "Shots that land cleanly that are looking to end the fight"

So while in the first 3 rounds Shogun was looking to wear out Machida legs, setting him up for later rounds, Machida was also landing his own shots, however Machida was "Looking to end the fight", hence giving him better points for aggression and octagon control, and consequently winning him those rounds.

You may think that is bull sh1t, you may disagree with the scoring system, you may think that Shogun should have been rewarded for his "wear down" strategy but thats just the way it is.

FACT: Shogun spend the majority of the fight trying to wear Machida out then failed to finish.

FACT: Machida spent the majority of the fight trying to land clean shots to try and finish the fight.

It just come down to what scores in MMA and what don't, disagree if you like, does not change the fact that 3 judges ALL saw it that way. Dana White was wrong, Joe Rogen was wrong (although I suspect they both know the truth and just wanted to hype up the rematch), a lot of the fans believe the lie that is Shogun won the fight.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> ..I honestly think all Machida has is his karate..


Lol that must be the most absurd statement I read here in a long time.. :confused03:

He is one of the most well rounded fighters in MMA!


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> Lol that must be the most absurd statement I read here in a long time.. :confused03:
> 
> He is one of the most well rounded fighters in MMA!


He's a great fighter, but I think what has made him the champion and the reason he is undefeated is his Karate. Obviously if you hold a title in the UFC you have a well rounded game, or you are great at avoiding what you aren't good at. I think what has set Machida apart up to this point has been his Karate, which I think Shogun's Muay Thai will trump. Once again, only my opinion, but I got torn apart for picking Shogun the first time. So in the fewest words possible, we've heard this all before.......


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> lol and where do you take this statement from?? Lyoto never lost to a submission, Rua twice already!
> 
> The only submission Rua ever had was a kneebar against a washed up Kevin Randelman.
> 
> Lyoto however has the far superior Takedowns and TDD defense, he decides where this fight takes place not Shogun. He wasn't even able to Take Lyoto down, when Lyoto slipped.


superior TD? not really but lyoto does have excellent TDD and good TD but haven't seen too much to say it's superior to shogun's and it doesn't matter how good at bjj you are if you come to fight with terrible cardio than the chances of being ko'd or subbed is greatly enhanced


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

joe davola said:


> superior TD? not really but lyoto does have excellent TDD and good TD but haven't seen too much to say it's superior to shogun's and it doesn't matter how good at bjj you are if you come to fight with terrible cardio than the chances of being ko'd or subbed is greatly enhanced


Every time Lyoto tried to take somebody down he succeeded! Indifferent if it was a world class Judoka or Wrestler, I think that alone makes him superior in this aspect.


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## Johnni G (Dec 2, 2009)

cool vid


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Only part of Machida vulnerable to attack with his stance and movement has proved to be his legs, what else is Shogun going to do that's going to be as effective
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This has to be one of the worst posts ive ever seen. Machida had octagon control, was the aggressor and was looking to finsh the fight? What fight were you watching, honestly?! If Machida back peddaling the entire fight and waiting for shogun to strike first is octagon control and being agressive, then there is honestly no hope for you. Trying to finish the fight? Im not even going to bother with that one.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> This has to be one of the worst posts ive ever seen. Machida had octagon control, was the aggressor and was looking to finsh the fight? What fight were you watching, honestly?! If Machida back peddaling the entire fight and waiting for shogun to strike first is octagon control and being agressive, then there is honestly no hope for you. Trying to finish the fight? Im not even going to bother with that one.


well for one Machida was not back peddling the entire fight, he was moving forward, successful evading a large number of strikes for the first 3 rounds and landing successful counters, which in its self counts on the cards.

But it does not matter what you and many others think, the fact remains that the strategy Shogun used and shots he was landing where not focusing on trying to finish the fight during the first 3 rounds, where as the strategy Machida used and strikes he was landing where looking to finish the fight during those rounds, and that's why he won those rounds.

Shogun only won on some delusional believe that the fights should be scored differently, and peoples dislike with the scoring system that does not reward a game plan that does not involved going into each round looking for the finish, but instead to use early rounds to wear down your opponent.

For what its worth I think it does bring the scoring system its self into question, and there are changes I would like to see made to that system, but that does not chance the fact that buy the rules of the sport using the current scoring system Machida won those round because of the way the round by round scoring system works, and the fact it does NOT reward tactics that are aimed at effecting opponents in prior rounds.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> well for one Machida was not back peddling the entire fight, he was moving forward, successful evading a large number of strikes for the first 3 rounds and landing successful counters, which in its self counts on the cards.
> 
> But it does not matter what you and many others think, the fact remains that the strategy Shogun used and shots he was landing where not focusing on trying to finish the fight during the first 3 rounds, where as the strategy Machida used and strikes he was landing where looking to finish the fight during those rounds, and that's why he won those rounds.
> 
> ...


Obvious, troll is obvious.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Obvious, troll is obvious.


well maybe you can explain your reason why you think the decision was unanimous


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

KillerShark1985 said:


> well for one Machida was not back peddling the entire fight, he was moving forward, successful evading a large number of strikes for the first 3 rounds and landing successful counters, which in its self counts on the cards.
> 
> But it does not matter what you and many others think, the fact remains that the strategy Shogun used and shots he was landing where not focusing on trying to finish the fight during the first 3 rounds, where as the strategy Machida used and strikes he was landing where looking to finish the fight during those rounds, and that's why he won those rounds.
> 
> ...


how can you say Shogun was kicking and not looking to finish the fight? Do you think he came in there to play soccer with machidas body as a ball?

He WAS looking to finish the fight, but was smart enough not ran after him like a crazy, so he could be knocked out. 

No such thing as fighter who doesnt want to finish the fight. Only if they want to punish some guy (Fedor's rematch with the guy he lost to due the cut comes to my mind)


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

KillerShark1985 said:


> well maybe you can explain your reason why you think the decision was unanimous


bad referees


I also not exclude situation where Dana had to do with this (even if he said he won the fight), because in the end he was the only winner bussinesswise: most anticipated rematch, plus SO MUCH attention to MMA(ufc) due bad refereeing, news, blogs, videos, forums. What do you need more as a promoter? (but it could be that i am beeing paranoidd:confused03


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> well maybe you can explain your reason why you think the decision was unanimous


From the moment you said Machida was pushing forward for the fight, i realised it was pointless arguing with you.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Watch the fight again, the only thing Shogun was kicking was Machida's legs, at a ruff estimate based only on the first 3 rounds, as there is no debate on who won rounds 4 and 5, around 80% of the kicks landed by shogun where leg kicks, or knees to the legs in the clinch, I would say that 10% of Machida's attacks where leg kicks, you cant be seen to seriously be looking to end the fight with leg kicks, even when those leg kicks are the most effective strikes in the fight doing the most damage, they are still a wear down tactic not strikes looking to end the fight.

Shogun learned the hard way in that fight that you have to be looking for the kill shot to win a round on points, especially a fight that is weighted 100% on striking. and if you are going to spend 3 round in a 5 round fight wearing down your opponent then you need to finish them in the final 2 if your opponent has been looking for the kill shot.

Its a closed case anyway the score was what it was for that reason.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Rusko said:


> bad referees
> 
> 
> I also not exclude situation where Dana had to do with this (even if he said he won the fight), because in the end he was the only winner bussinesswise: most anticipated rematch, plus SO MUCH attention to MMA(ufc) due bad refereeing, news, blogs, videos, forums. What do you need more as a promoter? (but it could be that i am beeing paranoidd:confused03


So basically in your opinion the fight was rigged and the ref all miss judged the fight on purpose as an excuse to get a re-match.

hang on a moment what would of happened if someone was KO'ed or what if it had been so much one sided Machida that it was a clear decision, would the fight of then gone to Shogun so we could have your anticipated rematch, what if it had of been as clear as the Penn vs Diego fight, could they still of pulled the wrong decision?

For the record I thought at the time that Shogun had won, it was not until I went over the replays when I realised just how much of Shoguns attacks where just on the legs and how often Machida answered a leg kick with a body strike at least during the first 3 rounds, come rounds 4 and 5 he was not so sharp to evade and counter because his legs where fcuked and he long those rounds accordingly.

Was a real tuff fight to judge but you have to applaud the judges for applying the rules surrounding what is defined as as effective striking so accurately under such pressure due to the effectiveness of Shoguns leg kicks which where not capitalised on into clean shots looking to end the fight until later rounds which he consequently won fairly.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Watch the fight again, the only thing Shogun was kicking was Machida's legs, at a ruff estimate based only on the first 3 rounds, as there is no debate on who won rounds 4 and 5, around 80% of the kicks landed by shogun where leg kicks, or knees to the legs in the clinch, I would say that 10% of Machida's attacks where leg kicks, you cant be seen to seriously be looking to end the fight with leg kicks, even when those leg kicks are the most effective strikes in the fight doing the most damage, they are still a wear down tactic not strikes looking to end the fight.
> 
> Shogun learned the hard way in that fight that you have to be looking for the kill shot to win a round on points, especially a fight that is weighted 100% on striking. and if you are going to spend 3 round in a 5 round fight wearing down your opponent then you need to finish them in the final 2 if your opponent has been looking for the kill shot.
> 
> Its a closed case anyway the score was what it was for that reason.


Lets completely ignore all of the head strikes Rua landed throughout the fight which arguably do more damage than both leg kicks and body kicks. Your argument is riddled with holes. Ive watched the fight on multiple ocassions, shogun the aggressor, shogun pushing forwards and maintaining octagon control, shogun landing a 2:1 strike ratio, shogun landing the harder strikes, shogun landing more strikes to the head and inflicting the most damage in the entire fight with that counter right hand.

You are deluded if you think Machida was pushing forward throughout that fight and was the aggressor.

You do realise two judges came out and admitted they scored the fight wrong? You do realise all fighters and Dana White believed Shogun won that fight? You do realise statistics clearly show Rua completely out striking Machida in the fight and you are still arguing against it?


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Nice posts KillerShark I agree with nearly all of them what you just said :thumbsup:

Here are some of the power shots Lyoto landed..


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

The head kick and the last picture were blocked by Shogun bobby.










This is a clean power shot.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

I cant wait for the second fight to happen so we can all stop talking about the first one and how Shogun got robbed, which he did.

It's OK Machida fans, your guy was given the decision when he should have lost.


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## Cowmilker (Jul 11, 2007)

I cant wait for this. Shogun got robbed by those judges, but honestly it was a great fight and I am very glad I could watch it. One of the best title fights in a long time. Hopefully the second one is just as good!!!


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## nathan.keith (Feb 2, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> The head kick and the last picture were blocked by Shogun bobby.


Blocked? You can see the shin touching his head. Can you really call that a block? Hold your hand to your head and let Lyoto kick it and tell me if you'd still consider that blocked. IDK who should've won this fight but neither does anyone else it was pretty damn close.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

nathan.keith said:


> Blocked? You can see the shin touching his head. Can you really call that a block? Hold your hand to your head and let Lyoto kick it and tell me if you'd still consider that blocked.


Ok, true. It was partially blocked though, wasnt a clean, flush head kick. Also on some of those pics you cant even make out where the shots are landing.

Neither does any one else? Every one knows Rua won that fight, other than Machida fan boys.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Ok, true. It was partially blocked though, wasnt a clean, flush head kick. Also on some of those pics you cant even make out where the shots are landing.
> 
> Neither does any one else? *Every one knows Rua won that fight, other than Machida fan boys.*


Everybody even the Machida fan booys know this is true, except they wont admit it. 

I was posting on sherdog the night of the fight and a lot of Machida fans there said that he lost the fight also.


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## Nikkolai (Jan 7, 2008)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Machida has one of the most under rated ground games in MMA, I have never seen him not completely dominate in a fight that has gone to the ground using his BJJ


 Tito got him in a triangle and then armbar but failed to finish.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Even if Machida wins, Machida worshipers haven't got a lot to be smug about - 

"Yeah my favorite fighter is the champ Lyoto Machida, you know, the one that needed a second chance..."

Haha.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

KillerShark1985 said:


> So basically in your opinion the fight was rigged and the ref all miss judged the fight on purpose as an excuse to get a re-match.
> 
> hang on a moment what would of happened if someone was KO'ed or what if it had been so much one sided Machida that it was a clear decision, would the fight of then gone to Shogun so we could have your anticipated rematch, what if it had of been as clear as the Penn vs Diego fight, could they still of pulled the wrong decision?
> .


thats why I said I am probalbly beeing paranoid.


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## nathan.keith (Feb 2, 2010)

Admitted I'm a Machida fanboy. I think it should definately have been a split decision though. The only reason I think Lyoto got the victory is because a challenger has to have a pretty definate victory over a champion to earn the belt. But yeah I'm a Machita fan I admit it. He's a bad a** and he did a damn good job of shutting Evans up so for that he is the man.

This is why I hate judges decisions.

At least this wasn't as big of a screw up as the hamill vs bisping fight. there was something way wrong with that decision.


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## Nikkolai (Jan 7, 2008)

It just saddens me that before Machida got the belt, so many people was saying he's boring and was never really a fan. Bandwagoners make me sad  and now people make him out to be an unbeatable fighter raise01:. Oh and the famous: "I've always been a fan before... :bored01:"


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

> The only reason I think Lyoto got the victory is because a challenger has to have a pretty definate victory over a champion to earn the belt


 - Says who? Is it a Championship Match rule that for the title to be taken, the contender must KO/submit/disable the Champion? 

A title defense isn't meant to be scored any differently to any other UFC match, and the judges shouldn't be sub-consciously thinking that the Champ must be destroyed.

If the 'kill the champ to be the champ' rule is going to exist there needs to be compromise for the contender. So likewise, the champ must finish the contender in order to win, and if no one is finished before the designated time, it's a split-decision. The champ keeps the belt but doesn't record it as a win, or maybe the belt becomes disowned and the next two top contenders fight for it.

Sorry, I realise this isn't a rules thread.

All I'll say about Rua vs. Machida is this - anyone who again thinks Rua has no chance and thinks Machida will all of a sudden be the best leg-kick-defender in the world and just knock Shogun out, has obviously convinced themselves the first fight never happened.


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## nathan.keith (Feb 2, 2010)

Yeah I've always loved his style. He treats ever strike like it's the last. Think about all the people who hated on shogun between the coleman fight and his title shot. It's funny how everyone hated on Lyoto's style untill it won him the belt.


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## nathan.keith (Feb 2, 2010)

I wasn't the first to say the whole kill the champ to be the champ and I don't agree with it.that just seems to be the general concensus.... Joe Rogan said it! Joe rogan's never wrong lol


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

The judges desperately need to have their own televisions so they can see the fight from more than one angle when required.

Regardless of what happened in the last fight that should be a requirment for NSAC or whoever else is in charge of judging.

That being said I can't wait for this rematch! I rarely like to see two of my faverite fighters go at it, but after the first one I am pumped!


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

As a commentator he can't really say "What the hell, the other guy won, are these judges nuts?". Rogan's OK, but Goldberg is just on another level. Of stupidity, that is.


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## nathan.keith (Feb 2, 2010)

LOL Goldberg looks like a butch lesbian.... only he wears makeup.


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## georgie17891 (Dec 21, 2008)

awesome vid this fight is going to kick ass. Awesome muic accompying the vid as well


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