# Jon Fitch Says Move to MW Is Inevitable



## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

mmajunkie said:


> ROSEMEAD, Calif. – Dec. 11 is a huge night for Jon Fitch's career.
> 
> That's the date the perennial welterweight contender will get an idea of where he's headed in the near future. He could meet the winner of Martin Kampmann vs. Jake Shields, slated for next month's UFC 121 event, or the winner of UFC 124's Georges St-Pierre vs. Josh Koscheck title fight.
> 
> ...


Source

Personally, I think he'd be much more successful at MW anyways.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

10x for the link :thumbsup:
Imo, his next fight should be for the belt.
No matter who the champion will be by that time. :sarcastic12:
And if he doesn't win that fight he should definitely move up. He has proven he is a world class WW, TOP 3 imo, but the whole point of fighting is winning titles. If he can't reach this goal in the WW division, move up. Try there.



> "So I feel like I can beat Anderson Silva, too, and GSP."


Tough task!


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

limba said:


> 10x for the link :thumbsup:
> Imo, his next fight should be for the belt.
> No matter who the champion will be by that time. :sarcastic12:
> And if he doesn't win that fight he should definitely move up. He has proven he is a world class WW, TOP 3 imo, but the whole point of fighting is winning titles. If he can't reach this goal in the WW division, move up. Try there.
> ...


Honestly, I don't think he can beat GSP right now. Maybe if he develops his striking more and works on finishing subs then he could. 

As far as Silva? Yes, I fully believe he can beat Anderson Silva. We saw what Chael did to him. Now imagine Chael with some of the best sub defense on the market and better all around grappling and more takedown weapons. (minus roids)


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

I think Fitch has a great shot of beating Anderson Silva.

Not to disrespect Silva, but we cant deny the fact that he has been fed a nice, steady diet of BJJ guys and inferior strikers.

Fitch has all the tools to take Silva down and control him and beat him up for 5 rounds, without the risk of getting subbed.

He has a much better chance of beating Silva than he does beating GSP.


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## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

really interesting to see but I think he would be better staying at WW.

Although I see GSP beating Kos anyway so it won't matter about the AKA v AKA debate. Not that I am completely ruling Kos out, its is MMA after all.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

He has a much better shot beating Silva then GSP.


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## morninglightmt (Sep 7, 2008)

Not sure why they're worried about 3 belts in their camp when they don't have any yet. Camps like Black House and Greg Jackson's can talk crap like that if they want, but AKA constantly talking about all those belts is annoying until they actually get one at least.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> Honestly, I don't think he can beat GSP right now. Maybe if he develops his striking more and works on finishing subs then he could.
> 
> As far as Silva? Yes, I fully believe he can beat Anderson Silva. We saw what Chael did to him. Now imagine Chael with some of the best sub defense on the market and better all around grappling and more takedown weapons. (minus roids)


I agree.

I don't think he would beat gsp.. but anderson... i think he might be able to pull that off :thumbsup:

i think he should stop :sarcastic12: and just go to MW, i think he'd go a lot farther there and possibly become champ.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

morninglightmt said:


> Not sure why they're worried about 3 belts in their camp when they don't have any yet. Camps like Black House and Greg Jackson's can talk crap like that if they want, but AKA constantly talking about all those belts is annoying until they actually get one at least.


Cain will be taking the belt back to AKA on October 23rd. 

Fitch has a great shot of bringing home another belt at MW.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

morninglightmt said:


> Not sure why they're worried about 3 belts in their camp when they don't have any yet. Camps like Black House and Greg Jackson's can talk crap like that if they want, but AKA constantly talking about all those belts is annoying until they actually get one at least.


Well they at least have 2 shots at it by the end of the year...


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## morninglightmt (Sep 7, 2008)

TraMaI said:


> Well they at least have 2 shots at it by the end of the year...


And shouldn't be counting their chickens before they're hatched.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

morninglightmt said:


> And shouldn't be counting their chickens before they're hatched.


I agree, but I said at least lol. It's not like they're saying it's better to have 3 belts when they have no one in title contention when they have 3 fighters at the tops of their respective weight classes.


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## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

I think Fitch could cause some damage at MW. It could have the same effect as Nate Diaz when he moved up. Fitch has effective GnP and the added weight could help him put some guys away. I'd like to see it.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

I can't wait until these camps get so big fighters will basically be sitting around looking at their feet because they won't fight a teammate.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> Source
> 
> Personally, I think he'd be much more successful at MW anyways.


Man, just envisioning matchups for Fitch at 185 is boring. Dude is easily the least watchable of all of the top names in the UFC. 

If I had to give a forecast, it would be multiple lay n pray victories with a high chance of lethargy and eventually sleep for spectators and viewers of his fights.


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## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

BobbyCooper said:


> He has a much better shot beating Silva then GSP.


^this^

While he may not be as good wrestler as Sonnen, his standup and specially jitsu is better. Fitch may not get as vicious g&p off, but he surely wont be subbed like Sonnen did either.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

He only has a better shot of beating Silva because GSP absoluitely mauled him the last time they fought.

Anderson still will probably knock him out though.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

This is absolutely laughable. Silva is a superior fighter compared to GSP without any shadow of a doubt. Oh, and Anderson runs 6'2" 215/220 with extremely long arms and legs. 

Anderson finishes Fitch in under two minutes. GSP couldn't finish Fitch after 25. 



Roflcopter said:


> *He only has a better shot of beating Silva* because GSP absoluitely mauled him the last time they fought.
> 
> Anderson still will probably knock him out though.


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> Honestly, I don't think he can beat GSP right now. Maybe if he develops his striking more and works on finishing subs then he could.
> 
> As far as Silva? Yes, I fully believe he can beat Anderson Silva. We saw what Chael did to him. Now imagine Chael with some of the best sub defense on the market and better all around grappling and more takedown weapons. (minus roids)


Yep everyone can beat Anderson Silva now.Bbbb because Chael did the best!! who cares what Chael did.People need to stop using Chael in how to determine who can or cant beat Anderson, its a stupid comparison.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> *As far as Silva? Yes, I fully believe Fitch can beat Anderson Silva.* We saw what Chael did to him. Now imagine Chael with some of the best sub defense on the market and better all around grappling and more takedown weapons. (minus roids)


Oh man, I can't believe I missed this little gem. 

Dude, do you still believe in the tooth fairy and santa claus too?
*
Spoiler alert:* "Santa" is actually your fat plumber who shows crack while working under your mom's kitchen sink because there aren't any jeans big enough to accommodate his fat ass.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> This is absolutely laughable. Silva is a superior fighter compared to GSP without any shadow of a doubt. Oh, and Anderson runs 6'2" 215/220 with extremely long arms and legs.
> 
> Anderson finishes Fitch in under two minutes. GSP couldn't finish Fitch after 25.


I don't think it's laughable, I actually think it's spot on. GSP hasn't shown any signs of being human since Serra. Anderson on the other hand showed that wrestling is a much bigger weakness than we all thought.

I pray for the GSP Silva super fight... and I would confidently put every dime I had GSP.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

LOL, there are two separate questions here, and you confuse them so let's separate them out.

*Fitch vs. Anderson.* Like I said, Fitch gets smashed. Fitch is a grinder who lays on top of you and out points you. Aside from exhaustion due to carrying a 170 lb. man on top of you and maybe a scrape or two from an errant elbow, Fitch's opponents are rarely the worse for wear and tear. Fitch simply put, rarely if ever inflicts significant damage on his opponents.

Anderson taps Fitch once with a jab and the fight's over. Combine it with a knee from the clinch and Fitch goes to sleep for several minutes. 

Some people seem to forget that Anderson bitch slapped Forrest Griffen three times, laid him out on the canvas, and forced him to wave him off "no mas" while helpless on his back. This is a 6'3", 230 lb. former LHW champion we're talking about. 

But now, a hack from the WW division is going to move up take out Anderson after Anderson moved up himself to crush the former champ? I won't say that's stupid, but it does strain credibility to the breaking point.


*Now, GSP vs. Anderson.* Here's the problem. This is not a simple matchup of strategies and styles. Anderson is simply a much bigger man. It's 5'10" and 193 vs. 6'2" and 220. 

There's a second problem. GSP's chin is questionable at best, and Anderson's chin is one of the very best in the business, if not THE BEST in all of MMA. Sonnen threw everything but the kitchen sink at Anderson and while Anderson was knocked down and off balance, he was never even close to being dazed, much less finished. 

In other words, Silva, the best striker in the game, is much more likely to finish GSP, than GSP is to finish Anderson.

Anderson would welcome a GSP fight, whereas GSP has politely ducked Anderson for years now. Even the fighters themselves know the score. 

But blind nut-huggery being what it is, I simply smile in bemusement. (Bemused smile emoticon goes here).


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> LOL, there are two separate questions here, and you confuse them so let's separate them out.
> 
> *Fitch vs. Anderson.* Like I said, Fitch gets smashed. Fitch is a grinder who lays on top of you and out points you. Aside from exhaustion due to carrying a 170 lb. man on top of you and maybe a scrape or two from an errant elbow, Fitch's opponents are rarely the worse for wear and tear. Fitch simply put, rarely if ever inflicts significant damage on his opponents.
> 
> ...


Because Fitch getting hit full power by a man who weighs ~200lbs in GSP and dropping but staying coherent the whole time means that Anderson can knock him out with a breath right? And since Jon decisions people it means that he never does anything to them right? I think you should rewatch the last few fights and notice when he's in a guard he postures and lays elbows down into faces like it's cool. Your bias is seethingly obvious man, seriously. I'm a HUGE Jon Fitch fan and even I said he wouldn't beat GSP the first time. If you want to break down fights, cool, but do it while checking your bias at the door if you want to be taken seriously.

Also, Anderson won't have that much reach on Jon. I've met the dude and he's right around 6'2''. I'm six even, my friend is 6'1'' and he's taller than both of us. His arms are long as hell, too. He'll be stronger than Anderson and he has the exact skill set and main gameplan to take Anderson out. Sure, if Anderson hits him there's a good chance he'd get KO'd, but it's not a SURE thing. He's taken full power shots from some of the heaviest handed strikers at 170 and he's been fine. 15 lbs is not going to make that much of a difference in power. Especially when he knows what to expect as he's fought both there and at 205.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Tra, don't you know decisioning people always = prolonged man cuddle?


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

I think he has a better chance against Silva then GSP due to style matchups but I want to see him fight Diaz first
Nick preferably but Nate is solid as well


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Wrong again. On multiple counts.

*First* of all, *GSP now walks around at 193, but was closer to 187* walking around at the time of the Fitch fight. *187=/= 200.* In fact, GSP was probably closer to 180 at the time of the fight. Again, *180=/= 200.* 

*Second,* GSP has never shown 1 punch KO power. Anderson has. And I'm talking about Anderson flicking out a jab at a 230 pounder, not a full force punch. Anderson caught Irvin with one punch and put him in the fetal position, rolling in agony crying. One punch. 

Also, it's completely irrelevant what Fitch's height or reach is. His standup game is literally non-existent at 170. Against Anderson standing, it will be complete devastation. 

Taking full force punches from the best at 170 vs. taking full force punches from the best striker in MMA period are two different propositions. You know better than that!

Fitch can't box, at least not compared to Anderson; *Anderson is the best muay thai guy on the planet *by a mile. 

Case finished.

btw, I respect Fitch's skillset. But he bores the crap out of me, as well as out of the vast majority of MMA spectators. 

So yeah, I'm biased against boring fighters. And Fitch is near, or at the very top of that list. 

If you like him as a fighter, fine, but be prepared to speak objectively about his strengths and weaknesses. 

He's a tall, wiry guy at 170, facing a much, much bigger man who will absolutely destroy him standing. Ask *Marquardt*, an ENORMOUS MW. Ask *Irvin*, a LHW. Ask *Forrest*, who literally ran out of the building in embarrassment after being knocked down three times, despite being one of the biggest LHW's on the planet. Ask *Ace*, who was completely destroyed not once but twice. Who also fights at LHW. 

Use simple logic my friend. Anderson has bitch slapped the very best in two weight classifications above Fitch's silly, yet you dare to argue that a WW with weak boxing is going to pound on him. 

When you look at the situation logically, it would be stupid to bet on Fitch. 




TraMaI said:


> *Because Fitch getting hit full power by a man who weighs ~200lbs in GSP* and dropping but staying coherent the whole time means that Anderson can knock him out with a breath right? And since Jon decisions people it means that he never does anything to them right? I think you should rewatch the last few fights and notice when he's in a guard he postures and lays elbows down into faces like it's cool. Your bias is seethingly obvious man, seriously. I'm a HUGE Jon Fitch fan and even I said he wouldn't beat GSP the first time. If you want to break down fights, cool, but do it while checking your bias at the door if you want to be taken seriously.
> 
> Also, Anderson won't have that much reach on Jon. I've met the dude and he's right around 6'2''. I'm six even, my friend is 6'1'' and he's taller than both of us. His arms are long as hell, too. He'll be stronger than Anderson and he has the exact skill set and main gameplan to take Anderson out. Sure, if Anderson hits him there's a good chance he'd get KO'd, but it's not a SURE thing. He's taken full power shots from some of the heaviest handed strikers at 170 and he's been fine. 15 lbs is not going to make that much of a difference in power. Especially when he knows what to expect as he's fought both there and at 205.


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> Because Fitch getting hit full power by a man who weighs ~200lbs in GSP and dropping but staying coherent the whole time means that Anderson can knock him out with a breath right?


LOL I can't believe you honestly consider this a valid point to make, and you wrote it with such confidence too. GSP isn't Anderson Silva in the striking department...if GSP was able to get huge shots in on Fitch and out strike him, Imagine what Silva would do to him...get real. 



> And since Jon decisions people it means that he never does anything to them right? I think you should rewatch the last few fights and notice when he's in a guard he postures and lays elbows down into faces like it's cool. *Your bias is seethingly obvious man*, seriously. *I'm a HUGE Jon Fitch fan* and even I said he wouldn't beat GSP the first time. If you want to break down fights, cool, but do it while *checking your bias at the door* if you want to be taken seriously.


Yeah, you sound super credible right now bro. You're a huge jon fitch fan calling someone out on being biased in a discussion about jon fitch...


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Before I tear this apart, I want to focus on this statement:



> But blind nut-huggery being what it is, I simply smile in bemusement. (Bemused smile emoticon goes here).


I have to love the irony. Here you are talking about blind nut huggery, while you're so attached to Silva's nuts that even shaving wouldn't separate you two.



michelangelo said:


> LOL, there are two separate questions here, and you confuse them so let's separate them out.


No there wasn't. GSP would beat Silva due to GSP's wrestling. So would Fitch. Same point being made. You decided to complicate things.



> *Fitch vs. Anderson.* Like I said, Fitch gets smashed. Fitch is a grinder who lays on top of you and out points you. Aside from exhaustion due to carrying a 170 lb. man on top of you and maybe a scrape or two from an errant elbow, Fitch's opponents are rarely the worse for wear and tear. Fitch simply put, rarely if ever inflicts significant damage on his opponents.


Doesn't matter. Silva can't hack it with wrestlers (with sub defense). Travis Lutter, who is hardly a wrestler, put Silva on his ass several times and even mounted him. Chael got takedowns on Silva at will. Fitch would be able to take him down and control him to a decision.



> Anderson taps Fitch once with a jab and the fight's over. Combine it with a knee from the clinch and Fitch goes to sleep for several minutes.


People said the same thing about Chael. How'd that go?



> Some people seem to forget that Anderson bitch slapped Forrest Griffen three times, laid him out on the canvas, and forced him to wave him off "no mas" while helpless on his back. This is a 6'3", 230 lb. former LHW champion we're talking about.


Completely irrelevant. Griffin's style is the exact opposite of Fitch's and GSP's. Griffin is a brawler who was stupid enough to stand and trade with the best counter striker in the sport. Enough said.



> But now, a hack from the WW division is going to move up take out Anderson after Anderson moved up himself to crush the former champ? I won't say that's stupid, but it does strain credibility to the breaking point.


A hack? Good God. 13 wins and 1 loss in the ufc.... and that 1 loss was to the guy who I think could also beat Silva. I would love to be a "hack" in your eyes. As would every other person who likes to fight.

You seriously lost all credibility in those two sentences alone.




> *Now, GSP vs. Anderson.* Here's the problem. This is not a simple matchup of strategies and styles. Anderson is simply a much bigger man. It's 5'10" and 193 vs. 6'2" and 220.


Doesn't matter. Anderson has the wrestling of a high school freshman (not literally) compared to the likes of GSP, Cain, Fitch, Chael, ect. He also shows that once on his back, he must submit you or else he will eat punches the whole time. Fitch and GSP aint getting submitted. Maybe in your Anderson filled dream world, but not in reality.



> There's a second problem. GSP's chin is questionable at best,


He was TKO'd ONCE by an extremely hard hitter. How in the hell does that make your chin questionable? Moronic statement.



> and Anderson's chin is one of the very best in the business, if not THE BEST in all of MMA. Sonnen threw everything but the kitchen sink at Anderson and while Anderson was knocked down and off balance, he was never even close to being dazed, much less finished.


Aww here we go again. Chael who is not even remotely a striker dropped Anderson. Yet people like you and many others on this site call Chael "pillow hands" regularly. So which is it? It Chael pillow hands or does Anderson have a good chin?

Not to mention, GSP is leaps and bounds above Anderson in striking. So if Chael dropped Anderson with a strike, and Chael is a poor striker, Andersons chin must be "suspect at best" according to your logic.

FYI I don't think he has suspect chin. But he definitely doesn't have one of the best chins in MMA. The last time he really got his was by Chael, and he dropped.



> In other words, Silva, the best striker in the game, is much more likely to finish GSP, than GSP is to finish Anderson.


We're not talking about finishing. We're talking about fighting. I think GSP would win the fight 9 out of 10 times against Anderson. That 1 time Anderson would KO GSP, and probably 8 out of the 9 times GSP would win via decision. So I'm not arguing Andy is more likely to finish. He's just not more likely to win.



> Anderson would welcome a GSP fight, whereas GSP has politely ducked Anderson for years now. Even the fighters themselves know the score.


Uhg. If you had one ounce of evidence to support this I would welcome it... but you don't. So I'm not going to even bother.



> But blind nut-huggery being what it is, I simply smile in bemusement. (Bemused smile emoticon goes here).


Heh. This part seriously made my night. For the record I am not a huge Fitch fan. If you think so I challenge you to find a post where I've even mentioned him before on these boards. I just recognize the obvious.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I would like to see Fitch take a fight at 185 just to see how he does. Fitch is a huge 170. I mean Alves couldn't make weight and he still looked like Fitch's little bitch. Honestly though I wonder if some of Fitch's problems with actually doing some real damage doesn't come from difficulty with the cut. Look at Nate Diaz guy struggled to make LW and couldn't punch his way out of a wet paperbag at LW. He moved up to WW and damn he can tear a mother $#@% up at 170. I am interested to see if Fitch would become more explosive and powerful at 185 where the cut isn't so hard.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> This is absolutely laughable. Silva is a superior fighter compared to GSP without any shadow of a doubt. Oh, and Anderson runs 6'2" 215/220 with extremely long arms and legs.
> 
> Anderson finishes Fitch in under two minutes. GSP couldn't finish Fitch after 25.


of course anderson is a superior fighter compared to gsp. but this isnt fighting, its mma. and you dont have to be able to do more than hold your opponent down for 25minutes to defeat them. which unfortunately guys like gsp, fitch and chael can do.


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

People saying Fitch can beat Silva are being absurd. The only reason people are saying that is because Sonnen had his way with Silva by utilizing his great wrestling, but people are forgetting some VERY IMPORTANT points here:

1. Chael Sonnen is a lot bigger than Jon Fitch - a whole weight class bigger, in fact.

2. Chael Sonnen is a much better wrestler than Fitch. Yes, Fitch is a good wrestler, but he's no Sonnen. Sonnen is up there with the GSPs and Brocks when it comes to MMA wrestling.

3. Anderson Silva came into the Sonnen fight with a bruised rib, and proceeded to break it during the fight. When healthy, he could destroy Fitch.

4. Chael Sonnen has been proven to and has admitted to having used steroids for his fight against Silva. So, unless Fitch uses steroids too, those two situations arent comparable.

Anderson Silva would demolish Jon Fitch, and Sonnen would probably beat him too.


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## karateka-razzzy (Sep 28, 2010)

fitch knows he cant beat kos. he cant finish now i wonder how that will go in the heavier division.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> People saying Fitch can beat Silva are being absurd. The only reason people are saying that is because Sonnen had his way with Silva by utilizing his great wrestling, but people are forgetting some VERY IMPORTANT points here:
> 
> 1. Chael Sonnen is a lot bigger than Jon Fitch - a whole weight class bigger, in fact.


Fitch started at LHW, fought in MW, and eventually dropped down to 170. He could easily gain the weight back... probably in muscle too. Point moot.



> 2. Chael Sonnen is a much better wrestler than Fitch. Yes, Fitch is a good wrestler, but he's no Sonnen. Sonnen is up there with the GSPs and Brocks when it comes to MMA wrestling.


I beg to differ. Fitch is definitely top tier when it comes to wrestling. Sonnen's is better, but not by much.



> 3. Anderson Silva came into the Sonnen fight with a bruised rib, and proceeded to break it during the fight. When healthy, he could destroy Fitch.


Excuses. Travis Lutter took Silva down. Sonnen could have taken Silva down even without the bruised / broken ribs.



> 4. Chael Sonnen has been proven to and has admitted to having used steroids for his fight against Silva. So, unless Fitch uses steroids too, those two situations arent comparable.


What exactly did those performance enhancing substances help him with? Cardio? Strength? Until we know more about the PED, we won't even know if it had any effect on the fight what so ever. Wrestling is about 90% technique. Steroids won't help a wrestler much to begin with (except for healing injuries).



> Anderson Silva would demolish Jon Fitch, and Sonnen would probably beat him too.


Sonnen would probably beat Fitch. But Fitch would beat Andy because he can hold him down, and Fitch won't get subbed.


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

I love these ignorant kids arguing Fitch could take Silva. 

Be realistic, be objective, be logical. Yeah, it's not 100% likely that Silva beats Fitch, but Fitch is a huge underdog in this fight and everyone knows it. This isn't MMA politics here, no need to BS around.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

ptw said:


> I love these ignorant kids arguing Fitch could take Silva.
> 
> Be realistic, be objective, be logical. Yeah, it's not 100% likely that Silva beats Fitch, but Fitch is a huge underdog in this fight and everyone knows it. This isn't MMA politics here, no need to BS around.


Hey, I'm not saying that Fitch 100% wins that fight, but given Silva's last showing, Fitch has a lot better shot than most people are giving him.

A for the record I am neither a kid nor ignorant. Thanks though.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

im also not saying fitch would beat anderson. i think he has a shot, and a much better one than beating gsp.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Fitch started at LHW, fought in MW, and eventually dropped down to 170. He could easily gain the weight back... probably in muscle too. Point moot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's interesting that you omitted the part where Lutter and Sonnen were both submitted. 

Henderson was submitted as well. 

Takedowns which lead to a fighter being submitted are generally not considered a good thing in MMA. Or anywhere else for that matter.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

xeberus said:


> of course anderson is a superior fighter compared to gsp. but this isnt fighting, its mma. *and you dont have to be able to do more than hold your opponent down for 25minutes to defeat them*. which unfortunately guys like gsp, fitch and chael can do.


Bingo



PheelGoodInc said:


> Hey, I'm not saying that Fitch 100% wins that fight, but given Silva's last showing, Fitch has a lot better shot than most people are giving him.
> 
> A for the record I am neither a kid nor ignorant. Thanks though.


People should´t be taking that fight as if it means very much.
You gotta be able to put two important things on perspective when talking about that fight:
1 - Silva going in the fight with a very troubling injury.
2 - His opponent was on the juice.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

here we go again, look...on topic i think it would be VERY interesting to see fitch at 185...i really wonder if he could dominate like he does at WW, i really hope he moves up, im not a fan of his style but i always am interested in his fights

now, onto fitch vs AS....wow...looks like any wrestler with good bjj defense can beat AS, thank you chael for showing us this huge weakness....really...AS is a joke, get a wrestler, teach him BJJ defense and BOOM...you got yourself the perfect and only fighter to finally defeat AS in the UFC:thumb02:

its that easy right? this is the best P4P fighter in the world, funny how ppl downplay AS' wins when he has actually faced elite bbj guys and elite wrestlers, and good strikers, belfort will be his elite strikers test

GSP has faced elite wrestlers and one very good striker in thiago alves...so now hes the best no doubt?...ok..the WW division is also ''tailor made'' for GSP...man its easy to downplay someones career:thumbsup:

lets look at facts here, silvas biggest weakness is his wrestling...true...but every wrestler hes faced he has submitted of his back, so silva has great subs from his back...true

so all you need is good bjj defense? yeah cuz henderson sucks at bjj defense right:sarcastic12:...he would never know how to escape a RNC...lutter never learned how to escape a triangle, and chael who actually did the correct move to defend a tirangle and was actually defending all of AS' subs well STILL got caught even when he did WHAT HE NEEDED TO DO to espace the triangle...why do ppl not see this?

anderson has huge limbs and escaping his triangles just isnt easy especially in GSPs case...his small body would be in some very serious danger in andersons guard, and so would fitch, that is if he actually manages to avoid a KO for 5 rounds, i still think he would just submit him, having good bjj defense doesnt mean you can never get submitted...damn go ask fedor

anderson is really calm on the ground and knows what to do and isnt afraid of some GnP, his ground game is dangerous and lol at him having a suspect chin...clearly anyone who thinks this hasnt watched most of his fights, he likes getting hit in the face, hell he let chael hit him in the face just to show he could take it

watch his old fights and you will see how good his chin is


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Do Steroids that are directed at improving cardio raise the testosterone to an illegal amount?? Im just curious.

Im looking at you!! Guy with really big arms Avatar.!! I tried finding you in this thread but i didnt see you post anything. I know your the guy to talk to about Supplements.

If anyone else wants to answer... thats more then welcomed also.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

Great, Jon Fitch now gets to bore the ass of me in the middleweight division.


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

dont think Andy loses to Fitch or Sonnen barring another pre-fight injury rendering his stand up striking and core useless in the octagon. But he is getting old as shit. He's the same age as the Nogs, younger than Cro Cop by a year, older than Fedor by a year.

I'd have to go with Fitch over roid-less Sonnen.

Sonnen has the great amateur wrestling background but Fitch is a solid grappler, will comfortably put on the weight, he's a far better striker.

But above all Fitch knows how to win the rounds with 'Lay and stay active, and win MMA fights... he's very weary of getting the last minute dink for 10-9.... Fitch is probably more a natural MW than WW, he'd probably be more capable of utilizing his skill set actually. Fitch didn't even wrestle as low as 170 in college.

Inevitably, Silva will get slower unless he finds Couture's magic bean stock. 

Post-Silva, MW will end up like WW. 25 minute fights, the best lay and prayer will rule the division... and there's a lot more prospects in that department.

***

Also, I think IF and only IF Silva shows signs of age, wear and tear and he's not his former self, I think Dana White immediately sets up the super-fight vs GSP (for the fans).


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

MrObjective said:


> dont think Andy loses to Fitch or Sonnen barring another pre-fight injury rendering his stand up striking and core useless in the octagon. But he is getting old as shit. He's the same age as the Nogs, younger than Cro Cop by a year, older than Fedor by a year.
> 
> I'd have to go with Fitch over roid-less Sonnen.
> 
> ...


UFC 112, past round 3 goes to show that "IF" is already in place.


----------



## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

michelangelo said:


> This is absolutely laughable. Silva is a superior fighter compared to GSP without any shadow of a doubt. Oh, and Anderson runs 6'2" 215/220 with extremely long arms and legs.
> 
> Anderson finishes Fitch in under two minutes. GSP couldn't finish Fitch after 25.


Anderson Silva has better strikes as far as grappling goes he is way down the pecking order plus GSP has decent strikes i think you need to watch GSP and not be so bias towards Silva and against wrestlers in general. 

Anderson has lost to a WW before so i think you are reaching bro.



michelangelo said:


> It's interesting that you omitted the part where Lutter and Sonnen were both submitted.
> 
> Henderson was submitted as well.
> 
> Takedowns which lead to a fighter being submitted are generally not considered a good thing in MMA. Or anywhere else for that matter.


Did you even watch the Lutter fight or did you go to wikipedia for you information ?










Lutter was dominating Silva , and he wasnt submitted with a submission it was due to strikes does that mean he has poor BJJ ? yea so your point is invalid.

again Sonnen has poor sub defence and escaped for 23 minutes Fitch has one loss by submission in his CAREER in his first fight ! 8 years ago. 

Henderson was winning the first round and Anderson got Hendo down the only way he was going to by hurting him with strikes thats Andersons only chance.

Fitch has a good chance.


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

I don't think Fitch would do well at MW and I think Anderson would absolutely tool him. I think Fitch tends to bully guys to the mat and hold them there. That's obviously a lot tougher once the guys get bigger.


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## BadTrip (Dec 31, 2008)

BobbyCooper said:


> He has a much better shot beating Silva then GSP.


Why do you think that? GSP is a better striker, his wrestling is fantastic... he may not be a BJJ specialist but he's very well rounded and much more athletic and explosive than Fitch. Fitch's only avenue to beat Silva is via wrestling and G&P. I agree that we just saw Chael do that for 23 minutes against Silva...do you think Fitch is as good or better than Chael?
Not arguing really... just want to hear your ideas on this.



michelangelo said:


> LOL, there are two separate questions here, and you confuse them so let's separate them out.
> 
> *Fitch vs. Anderson.* Like I said, Fitch gets smashed. Fitch is a grinder who lays on top of you and out points you. .....
> Some people seem to forget that Anderson bitch slapped Forrest Griffen three times, laid him out on the canvas, and forced him to wave him off "no mas" while helpless on his back. This is a 6'3", 230 lb. former LHW champion we're talking about.
> ...


You are friggin' delusional if you think a 23-3 (13-1 in the UFC) guy is a _hack_. That's absolutely ignorant. You may not like him or his style.. I don't either.. but that sort of statement makes you sound as if you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. :sign04:


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

There is so much delusion in this thread I had to stop reading by page three. I'm moving on now.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

I think the biggest issue isn't being addressed. The AKA vs AKA situation. He's already carved out an identity, style, and a fanbase at WW. And he'd be willing to throw it all(and a chance to become WW champ)away to protect his friendship with Koscheck? 

What the hell is the point in even fighting in the UFC if you won't fight for the title? He's wasting his time even competing if he can't "go for the throat" with any opponent. 

I've discussed this same subject with my best friend and training partner (concerning both of us fighting) and I've come to the conclusion that if you won't balls up and fight whomever your employer says with the chance to become the greatest fighter in a division, and potentially have P4P implications, you shouldn't fight at all.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

He should leave the GSP weight division and go to MW. Like mentioned before, his not beating GSP at this point and has a better chance of becoming the MW champ.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

honestly i think he would be great at MW. His wrestling skills would make him match up well with other fighters there. give him one fight with a top guy then give him silva is what i would do.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

hopefully he switches up in time for Chaels return.

Chael will send him back to WW.


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## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

I like this move. I think I'm in the minority when I say I actually like watching Fitch fight. I'd love to see him vs Anderson. I think he has a better chance against Andy than GSP.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

Squirrelfighter said:


> I think the biggest issue isn't being addressed. The AKA vs AKA situation. He's already carved out an identity, style, and a fanbase at WW. And he'd be willing to throw it all(and a chance to become WW champ)away to protect his friendship with Koscheck?
> 
> What the hell is the point in even fighting in the UFC if you won't fight for the title? He's wasting his time even competing if he can't "go for the throat" with any opponent.
> 
> I've discussed this same subject with my best friend and training partner (concerning both of us fighting) and I've come to the conclusion that if you won't balls up and fight whomever your employer says with the chance to become the greatest fighter in a division, and potentially have P4P implications, you shouldn't fight at all.


this^^

i also dont understand this, its just a fight...i would throwdown with my best friends even if the title wasnt involved, its just 1 fight...its your job...i think its ridiculous, i would go through my own brother to get that title

does that mean i dont care for my friends and family? no, but i think it would actually be very fun, ive had tough sparring with them and we have gotten busted up because of it but it was fun as hell to fight someone you know so well

i really will never understand this mentality....in terms of them having 3 belts instead of 2...i can see that, but then why hasnt fitch moved up after losing to GSP? he just wants to move because of kos and thats simply ridiculous, its just a fight, stop crying...


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## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

ACTAFOOL said:


> this^^
> 
> i also dont understand this, its just a fight...i would throwdown with my best friends even if the title wasnt involved, its just 1 fight...its your job...i think its ridiculous, i would go through my own brother to get that title
> 
> ...


I think it's moreover that they would be splitting their gym. If Kos and Fitch had to fight each other for the title how would they train? Training partners would have to take sides. It's just not that they would be fighting each other, but it would cause animosity in the gym... it's inevitable that the gym would be divided. 

Also, it's not like Fitch would lose fans if he moved to MW because he has fans at WW. That doesn't even make sense. Just because he has "carved" out a fan base at WW, doesn't mean those same fans wouldn't support him at MW. I agree with the move.

Moving to MW just makes sense for him as it would be less complicated.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Man for someone who dominates the WW division outside of GSP, people really aren't giving Fitch much of a chance. I don't really get it.

Like it or not, Fitch has a great shot at beating Silva. Silva has proven time and time again that his weakness is wrestling. Yes he subbed Sonnen late, but comparing Sonnen's BJJ defense to Fitch's is somewhat silly in my opinion. If Fitch gets Silva down, I don't see him being subbed like Sonnen was.

Fitch is a dominant fighter so I don't see how people can discredit him and say that he will lose against Silva or Sonnen will send him back to WW and things like that. Fitch has been much more dominant at WW than anyone has been at MW besides Silva.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

He should at least fight Jake Shields first.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I don't think he should get an immediate shot or anything. I just think he has a better shot at MW than people are giving him.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

enceledus said:


> I think it's moreover that they would be splitting their gym. If Kos and Fitch had to fight each other for the title how would they train? Training partners would have to take sides. It's just not that they would be fighting each other, but it would cause animosity in the gym... it's inevitable that the gym would be divided.
> 
> Also, it's not like Fitch would lose fans if he moved to MW because he has fans at WW. That doesn't even make sense. Just because he has "carved" out a fan base at WW, doesn't mean those same fans wouldn't support him at MW. I agree with the move.
> *
> Moving to MW just makes sense for him as it would be less complicated*.


Yup it totally makes sense to change divisions when you're on the cusp of a title shot for the sake of a bromance... If his camp can't be professional about it, that's their problem.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

He should only be allowed to change divisions after fighting for the title, otherwise he was only messing around with the UFC, the fans and most important, with other fighters careers.


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## skinnyBIGGS (Jul 2, 2010)

TraMaI said:


> Honestly, I don't think he can beat GSP right now. Maybe if he develops his striking more and works on finishing subs then he could.
> 
> As far as Silva? Yes, I fully believe he can beat Anderson Silva. We saw what Chael did to him. Now imagine Chael with some of the best sub defense on the market and better all around grappling and more takedown weapons. (minus roids)


Meh anything Chael did when on Roids should hold no weight silva had a bruised rib that cracked and still stayed in the fight till the moment he won! chael cheating still couldnt finish a fighter when he was on top of him for 4 1/2 rounds , to think Fitch stands anychance at doing the same is A JOKE fitch would get destroyed as soon as he went in , he cant finish fighters let alone a fighter who couldnt be finished by a roider..... U people make me sick thinking that silva s armour is broken and that any fighter thats a strong wrestler could pull off the same...WAKE UP PEOPLE SILVA IS THE REAL DEAL MMA LEGEND, fitch is just another card filler never gonna hold that gold EVER!


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

enceledus said:


> I think it's moreover that they would be splitting their gym. If Kos and Fitch had to fight each other for the title how would they train? Training partners would have to take sides. It's just not that they would be fighting each other, but it would cause animosity in the gym... it's inevitable that the gym would be divided.
> 
> Also, it's not like Fitch would lose fans if he moved to MW because he has fans at WW. That doesn't even make sense. Just because he has "carved" out a fan base at WW, doesn't mean those same fans wouldn't support him at MW. I agree with the move.
> 
> Moving to MW just makes sense for him as it would be less complicated.


well the thing about the fanbase i wasnt the one who said that so i dont know if that was for me, but i agree its not like his WW fanbase wont watch him at MW...makes no sense...though its not like he has a big fanbase to begin with:thumb02:

anyway, i understand how that might shake up the gym a bit, but lets think logically here, here we have a gym training 2 fighters to be champion, but these 2 fighters fight in the same division....hmmm....maybe one day these 2 actually get so good that they get a title shot and win...then what? the other just might be NO.1 contender..oh nooo...they would have to fight each other...no no, its ok, one of them can just move up...oh, yeah...good idea!

umm....wouldnt it be easier for fitch to just fight at MW a long time ago? its obvious that if you are training to guys to be champ and both fight at WW some day those 2 paths will cross... groom fitch for MW since he has the build for it, and have more faith in kos to be the man to take that WW title...they should have done this a lone time ago, since they didnt its kind of ridiculous to do it now just because of kos, also it will be harder for fitch, hes not used to fighting at MW, sure he can be a MW with no difficulty, but its still a lot different than WW

they really just didnt think long term here...or never really considered kos to be an actual threat to gsp:confused02:...now that they're in this situation, man up and just fight once against each other...they can do it for 1 fight, its not like AKA will have to split in 2 forever, and it doesnt really matter, by now they probably know everything they have to know about each other as a fighter


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Again, some important details are being left out of consideration here. You neglect to mention that Silva entered the fight with a rib injury, serious enough for his doctors to recommend pulling out.

Then, he broke a rib. 

Simple common sense lets you know that this type of injury will severely limit a) his ability breathe, and b) his mobility and c) his ability to defend himself. 

Second, Sonnen not only 'roided, he didn't even bother to cycle off before testing. In other words, he continued to inject so he could train harder and recover faster than he would be normally be able to. 

And yet Silva, in this highly vulnerable set of circumstances, was never close to being finished at any point in the fight, and finished Sonnen in the triangle.

Again, please use some logic and evidence in your arguments. 

As far as Fitch being a "dominant" fighter, this proposition is so silly it's laughable. 

Anderson is dominant. He finishes via KO or submission. Mike Tyson was dominant. GSP is dominant. 

Fitch trips you and then lays on top of you until his opponent is exhausted. This is competent wrestling, sure, but not DOMINANT. 

He can't box and he never submits. He literally hugs and cuddles his way to victory. 

Again, bizarre nut hugging via exclusion of logic and evidence.



HitOrGetHit said:


> Man for someone who dominates the WW division outside of GSP, people really aren't giving Fitch much of a chance. I don't really get it.
> 
> Like it or not, Fitch has a great shot at beating Silva. Silva has proven time and time again that his weakness is wrestling. Yes he subbed Sonnen late, but comparing Sonnen's BJJ defense to Fitch's is somewhat silly in my opinion. If Fitch gets Silva down, I don't see him being subbed like Sonnen was.
> 
> Fitch is a dominant fighter so I don't see how people can discredit him and say that he will lose against Silva or Sonnen will send him back to WW and things like that. Fitch has been much more dominant at WW than anyone has been at MW besides Silva.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> Again, some important details are being left out of consideration here. You neglect to mention that Silva entered the fight with a rib injury, serious enough for his doctors to recommend pulling out.
> 
> Then, he broke a rib.
> 
> Simple common sense lets you know that this type of injury will severely limit a) his ability breathe, and b) his mobility and c) his ability to defend himself.


I understand and I am not discrediting him at all. All I am saying is that wrestling has proven to be his weakness and that is Fitch's strength.



> Second, Sonnen not only 'roided, he didn't even bother to cycle off before testing. In other words, he continued to inject so he could train harder and recover faster than he would be normally be able to.


People that did not roid have taken down Silva. Sonnen more than likely would have still been able to even if he was clean. Yes this is speculation, but Sonnen is very good at wrestling while Silva is not.



> And yet Silva, in this highly vulnerable set of circumstances, was never close to being finished at any point in the fight, and finished Sonnen in the triangle.


Just because Silva was not close to being finished does not mean he wasn't losing that fight.



> Again, please use some logic and evidence in your arguments.


Just because people do not agree with you does not mean they are not using logic. This is a forum and people have different opinions, so not everyone is going to see things the way that you do.



> As far as Fitch being a "dominant" fighter, this proposition is so silly it's laughable.
> 
> Anderson is dominant. He finishes via KO or submission. Mike Tyson was dominant. GSP is dominant.


I hear this everyday and I dismiss it. Just because you decision people doesn't mean you automatically aren't dominant. Completely controlling your opponent from start to finish is pretty dominant if you ask me.



> Fitch trips you and then lays on top of you until his opponent is exhausted. This is competent wrestling, sure, but not DOMINANT.
> 
> He can't box and he never submits. He literally hugs and cuddles his way to victory.


Incorrect. Fitch is an active grappler who is always improving his position. In his most recent fight with Alves, Fitch got his back numerous times. Takedown's and grappling does not equal lay and pray.



> Again, bizarre nut hugging via exclusion of logic and evidence.


Again, this is a forum and people have different opinions. If you are not capable of engaing in a debate with people with opposing views without accusing them of making senseless posts or "nuthugging" then do not debate at all.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Actually, taking an opponent down and not coming close to inflicting serious damage via strikes or coming close to a successful submission actually is the definition of lay n pray.

I will admit that Fitch is indeed a "dominant" lay n pray-er.


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## BadTrip (Dec 31, 2008)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Yup it totally makes sense to change divisions when you're on the cusp of a title shot _*for the sake of a bromance*_... If his camp can't be professional about it, that's their problem.


Ok... I'm sorry... but that was some funny shit right there dude... +rep'd :thumb03:


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## BadTrip (Dec 31, 2008)

michelangelo said:


> Again, ... Silva entered the fight with a rib injury, ...
> 
> Then, he broke a rib.
> ... this type of injury will severely limit a) his ability breathe, and b) his mobility and c) his ability to defend himself.
> ...


speaking of nuthugging.... raise01:


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

The move to MW will be good for him because of a change in competition, however Fitch isn't necessarily a big WW so I don't know how well his style will play out at MW. I definitely don't see him being able to beat GSP though.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Anderson Silva is to strong and fast for fitch to beat him. Fitch might be good but Andy would kill his ass in a heartbeat. Jon fitch is a good fighter but he is delusional. He can't beat anybody in a fight ya he might hold them down and squeeze the decision but sooner or later he will be force to fight. I don't he can beat GSP and I don't think GSP can beat Silva. So you know where i stand with fitch.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

I think Fitch has a shot against Silva... not a good one, Just a better shot than he does against gsp. fitch wins from wrestling. He's not going to out wrestle gsp. He might be able to out wrestle Silva. It's very plausible.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I think Fitch has a shot against Silva... not a good one, Just a better shot than he does against gsp. fitch wins from wrestling. He's not going to out wrestle gsp. He might be able to out wrestle Silva. It's very plausible.


Ya but that like saying anderson has a shot against brock....not a good one, just a better shot than he does against gsp. Brock wins from wrestling/ gnp. Silva can beat brock standing with one hand tied behind his back and can submit brock.



....I'm playing Brock will murder anderson. But anderson will beat GSP.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Silva has proven to have major holes in his wrestling for years. Dan Henderson, Travis Lutter, Yushin Okami and Chael Sonnen are all evidence.

Fitch has top class wrestling and control. He would be able to take Silva down with relative ease (just like Hendo did and Sonnen and Okami and Lutter).

Fitch has excellent sub defence and excellent cardio. Logic indicates that if he bulked up properly to MW, he would have a pretty good chance of beating Anderson Silva.

A top class wrestler with outstanding cardio and great sub defence is Silvas worst damn night mare.

Im certainly no Jon Fitch fan either.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Silva has proven to have major holes in his wrestling for years. Dan Henderson, Travis Lutter, Yushin Okami and Chael Sonnen are all evidence.
> 
> Fitch has top class wrestling and control. He would be able to take Silva down with relative ease (just like Hendo did and Sonnen and Okami and Lutter).
> 
> ...


Qft. I couldn't have said it better.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

I'll be LMAO when Dana/Joe Silva put this fight together and Fitch gets crushed like a tomato can.

Every goof who's posted here will be like: "duuuuuh, I really taught he had a chance, dere, buh..."

Please, please, please Dana make this fight so I can take these nuthuggers' money.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> I'll be LMAO when Dana/Joe Silva put this fight together and Fitch gets crushed like a tomato can.
> 
> Every goof who's posted here will be like: "duuuuuh, I really taught he had a chance, dere, buh..."
> 
> Please, please, please Dana make this fight so I can take these nuthuggers' money.


What were your predictions for Silva/Chael, out of curiosity?

Edit: Just checked your posting history. All of your posts before the silva/sonnen fight were saying the same thing;

"Chael is going to get CRUSHED. He's not a tenth of the athlete that Anderson."

You're one of those guys.


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## Muttonwar (Mar 22, 2008)

Well it will be cool to have a new MW champion in a year or 2 then.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> What were your predictions for Silva/Chael, out of curiosity?
> 
> Edit: Just checked your posting history. All of your posts before the silva/sonnen fight were saying the same thing;
> 
> ...


You idiot! I'd like to see you get into a five round fight with a broken rib. Good luck breathing, moving or being able to defend yourself. 

Oh yeah, and what fun fighting a scumbag who 'roided up until the very last second and openly admitted to commission officials he would fail the drug test as a result. 

Man, I just love reading the stupidity some people post. :thumb02:

edit: I'm still looking forward to Fitch getting crushed, like the MW can he would be.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> You idiot! I'd like to see you get into a five round fight with a broken rib. Good luck breathing, moving or being able to defend yourself.
> 
> Oh yeah, and what fun fighting a scumbag who 'roided up until the very last second and openly admitted to commission officials he would fail the drug test as a result.
> 
> ...


Wow, wasn't expecting that. Way to take offence to a bit of light hearted banter buddy.

What is your excuse for silva getting dominated and controlled by Dan Henderson for a full round? A half dead Travis Lutter? And getting taken down by Okami? I guess they were all roided up and silva had cracked ribs in those fights too...

Or not? Or maybe consider the fact that Silva has less than desirable TDD and over all, piss poor wrestling.

Strong wrestlers who stick to their game plans are going to cause Silva some major problems. Whether you're a huge silva fan or not, you should at least recognise this.

Fitch is a great wrestler with great control, excellent cardio and top notch sub defense. Whether you like it or not, hes definitely a legitimate threat to Anderson.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Dude, don't be offended by my post, it's just really funny reading comments from posters who are so blinded by the testes of their favorite fighters to acknowledge what's going on. 

Henderson: popped and dropped and choked out in the second. This is former LHW champ and MW champ Dan Henderson. The Dan Henderson with the thundrous right. The Henderson who inflicted so much damage in the first round that he got pounded and choked out in the second. 

Lutter: submitted.

GSP, the best wrestler in the game today, who slapped Fitch around for five rounds and turned his face into ground beef won't fight Anderson...


....yet Fitch is going to beat down Anderson. 

It's stupid man, no offense. GSP has far and away the best shot of any WW right now of beating Anderson yet he has admitted for years he is too small to win a fight against Anderson.

But Fitch, who has no hands, no submission game, and got dropped left and right by GSP, is suddenly going to take over the MW division.

What a brilliant argument. Seriously, I want what you're smoking, captain.


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

AmdM said:


> UFC 112, past round 3 goes to show that "IF" is already in place.


The rib injury and Sonnen caliber striker walking up to Silva and landing a full torque KO punch leaves that IF still an IF. He got punched hard flush in chin in round 1, has that ever happened to Anderson Silva in MMA, he said something along the lines of with an injury like that he doesn't find out what he capable of till he's fighting, he didn't have hid reflexes and he found that out in the cage, seems like common sense, - 7 months prior he was Neo from the Matrix.

You go from being the greatest striker in MMA history -- to not moving around, staying complacent and Sonnen throws a put-away shot to the face in opening part of a fight. I think he heals up and comes back answers the IF Silva is that far gone.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

MrObjective said:


> The rib injury and Sonnen caliber striker walking up to Silva and landing a full torque KO punch leaves that IF still an IF. He got punched hard flush in chin in round 1, has that ever happened to Anderson Silva in MMA, he said something along the lines of with an injury like that he doesn't find out what he capable of till he's fighting, he didn't have hid reflexes and he found that out in the cage, seems like common sense, - 7 months prior he was Neo from the Matrix.
> 
> You go from being the greatest striker in MMA history -- to not moving around, staying complacent and Sonnen throws a put-away shot to the face in opening part of a fight. I think he heals up and comes back answers the IF Silva is that far gone.


Silva will return to Neo again, he still dropped his hands and took shots from chael after he was rock. Nobody here is going to tell me Jon Fitch out of every ufc fighter will beat anderson silva. Jon Fitch is nowhere close of a wrestler like sonnen, is a lot smaller than sonnen and not on roids. When anderson silva moves around Jon fitch would not chase him to take him down because it will be lights out. Believe me after being dominated by a roid up sonnen Silva will would on his takedown defence. His buddy machida is the best in the game at tdd.


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## astrallite (Mar 14, 2010)

The threat of the takedown will mean Anderson will be very wary to throw kicks.

If GSP plays his cards right he can turn this into a boxing match. Forrest boxes in slow motion. Anderson has never stood up with a guy as explosive as GSP, whose jab and kick combo no one has managed to stop.

Let's be honest here...Anderon's boxing is over rated. If you tuck your chin and keep to the fundamentals like Chael did, you have a good chance to neutralize the stand up. Anderson's biggest weapons are his kicks and knees, which GSP's explosive takedowns will limit greatly.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

astrallite said:


> The threat of the takedown will mean Anderson will be very wary to throw kicks.
> 
> If GSP plays his cards right he can turn this into a boxing match. Forrest boxes in slow motion. Anderson has never stood up with a guy as explosive as GSP, whose jab and kick combo no one has managed to stop.
> 
> Let's be honest here...Anderon's boxing is over rated. If you tuck your chin and keep to the fundamentals like Chael did, you have a good chance to neutralize the stand up. Anderson's biggest weapons are his kicks and knees, which GSP's explosive takedowns will limit greatly.


Name me the last time Gsp has stood up with anybody? U really think he will with the greatest striker in MMA history? Chael did not do anything in that fight u had a wounded silva who probably could has sat out but said **** it its chael sonnen.


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## jhizzy (Feb 4, 2007)

astrallite said:


> The threat of the takedown will mean Anderson will be very wary to throw kicks.


Have you ever seen an anderson silva fight? He'll throw a kick/flying knee at a wrestler/bjj artist like its no big deal. Simply put he doesn't care half as much about being taken and fighting off his back as everyone on this forum (but hey, we're the experts).




astrallite said:


> If GSP plays his cards right he can turn this into a boxing match. Forrest boxes in slow motion.


Forrest gets no respect and it's kind of messed up since he mixes up his striking better than gsp and he outstruck rampage, rashad, and hung with shogun in the standup.





astrallite said:


> Anderson has never stood up with a guy as explosive as GSP, whose jab and kick combo no one has managed to stop.


GSP may have explosive takedowns but you'd be fool to describe his standup as explosive. That said, Anderson has outstruck plenty of people who could match gsp in the explosiveness department.

Also gsp's telegraphed superman to lowkick combo would more than likely get countered... badly.


----------



## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> Name me the last time Gsp has stood up with anybody? U really think he will with the greatest striker in MMA history? Chael did not do anything in that fight u had a wounded silva who probably could has sat out but said **** it its chael sonnen.


Seriously, people always point to Lutter's great domination and almost win over Silva. Here's a posssible explanation:

"Anderson Silva had knee surgery on both knees just 11 weeks ago. That was why he was so easy to take down, and that was why he couldn't squeeze 100% when he had Lutter in the triangle. His knees were still very sore. Later that night I ran into Anderson in the hotel, and he was limping like he was just double knee barred.

Crazy shit. If Travis ever had a chance, last night was it. Great fight, either way. " 
-Joe Rogan


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Silva is proving to be either a freak of nature or an arrogant champion with every fight. He just goes out there and proves that he can handle a fighter in anyways possible. This last fight and the positive drug test just shows that he can even beat a juiced up fighter!:thumbsup:


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

MrObjective said:


> Seriously, people always point to Lutter's great domination and almost win over Silva. Here's a posssible explanation:
> 
> "Anderson Silva had knee surgery on both knees just 11 weeks ago. That was why he was so easy to take down, and that was why he couldn't squeeze 100% when he had Lutter in the triangle. His knees were still very sore. Later that night I ran into Anderson in the hotel, and he was limping like he was just double knee barred.
> 
> ...


Knee surgery with Lutter, bruised / broken ribs with Sonnen. Better get the next excuse ready for the next guy who gets the best of him. :confused05:

You should never blame an injury / illness for a poor performance. Especially when people consider you the p4p champ of the world.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Knee surgery with Lutter, bruised / broken ribs with Sonnen. Better get the next excuse ready for the next guy who gets the best of him. :confused05:
> 
> You should never blame an injury / illness for a poor performance. Especially when people consider you the p4p champ of the world.



Well let's think for a second.....

When does Anderson Silva pull out of a fight due to injuries?


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Well let's think for a second.....
> 
> When does Anderson Silva pull out of a fight due to injuries?


Never!!! :thumbsup:


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Knee surgery with Lutter, bruised / broken ribs with Sonnen. Better get the next excuse ready for the next guy who gets the best of him. :confused05:
> 
> You should never blame an injury / illness for a poor performance. Especially when people consider you the p4p champ of the world.


How can these be excuses? He won the fights, they are reasons as to why he couldn't perform at his absolute peak performance and they are pretty damn good ones. We have proof that his knees were operated on and we have proof that he had a cracked rib, yet he still submitted both of these fools by triangle.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> Dude, don't be offended by my post, it's just really funny reading comments from posters *who are so blinded by the testes of their favorite fighters to acknowledge what's going on. *
> 
> Henderson: popped and dropped and choked out in the second. This is former LHW champ and MW champ Dan Henderson. The Dan Henderson with the thundrous right. The Henderson who inflicted so much damage in the first round that he got pounded and choked out in the second.
> 
> ...


Oh, the irony, the irony.....

For a start Fitch, i cant stand watching the guy fight, he bores the hell out of me, does this stop me from acknowledging his skill set? No. 

Why are you completley ignoring all the times silvas wrestling has been exploited? Why ignore round 1 where Hendo easily took Silva down and controlled him for a full round with silva unable to do any thing?

Why ignore Lutter, Travis friggin lutter easily taking Silva down and dominating him for a round? Do you not remember this?:










You are thinking without any logic. I dont know why GSP wont move up and fight Silva, he would easily beat him imo. He has the tailor made style to beat Silva, hes Jon Fitch version 2. He does everything Fitch does, but better. 

That isnt to say Fitch wont beat Anderson either. As i said earlier. A great wrestler with cardio, good sub defence and some one who can stick to a game plan is Anderson silva's worst night mare. The problem with Hendo was that he couldnt stick to a game plan and he didnt have the cardio to beat Anderson. The problem with Lutter was welll.....hes Travis Lutter, he didnt have the heart, nor was he in any physical shape to even be in the octagon. Chael Sonnens problem? His lack of sub defence.

You need all the tools to beat Silva, not just one or a few. Jon Fitch has all of them tools. Wrestling, control, sub defence, cardio and great game planning not to mention heart, he is a grinder. The sooner you acknowledge that he is a dangerous threat to Anderson, the better.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Well let's think for a second.....
> 
> When does Anderson Silva pull out of a fight due to injuries?


Shh! You're using logic and that's not allowed in this thread!


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Oh, the irony, the irony.....
> 
> For a start Fitch, i cant stand watching the guy fight, he bores the hell out of me, does this stop me from acknowledging his skill set? No.
> 
> ...


For starters, he's afraid to GNFO by the greatest striker in MMA history. 

Also GSP said he needs ATLEAST a year of nutrition and training if he would move up to Middle Weight. WAR GSP!


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Well let's think for a second.....
> 
> When does Anderson Silva pull out of a fight due to injuries?





MRBRESK said:


> How can these be excuses? He won the fights, they are reasons as to why he couldn't perform at his absolute peak performance and they are pretty damn good ones. We have proof that his knees were operated on and we have proof that he had a cracked rib, yet he still submitted both of these fools by triangle.


Then don't blame a less than normal performance on injuries. I love the fact that he wants to fight, but I hate the fact that every time he looks human he talks about some injury that caused it. Excuses are excuses... hands down. If you're going to bitch about being injured, don't fight in the first place. Everyone is usually injured in some way coming into a fight. Andy is the only one I know (besides Tito) who openly blames every poor performance on his injury.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Then don't blame a less than normal performance on injuries. I love the fact that he wants to fight, but I hate the fact that every time he looks human he talks about some injury that caused it. Excuses are excuses... hands down. If you're going to bitch about being injured, don't fight in the first place. Everyone is usually injured in some way coming into a fight. Andy is the only one I know (besides Tito) who openly blames every poor performance on his injury.


Its perfectly fine for Anderson to make up excuses for his poor performances, hell, people praise him. Bless Andy's cotton socks for even stepping into the ring with sore ribs. But when Tito or BJ Penn make up an excuse, they get crucified. Its one rule for one fighter, another rule for another. 

I don't like excuses from any fighter. If you have a bad showing, you have a bad showing, lets not start with the excuses in the post fight interview with Rogan. In fact, i hate it when fighters come up with excuses, it makes you look like a prick and you're disrespecting the other fighter.

"Chael had a great showing, but I had hurt my ribs, so really, it doesnt mean jack shit".


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Its perfectly fine for Anderson to make up excuses for his poor performances, hell, people praise him. Bless Andy's cotton socks for even stepping into the ring with sore ribs. But when Tito or BJ Penn make up an excuse, they get crucified. Its one rule for one fighter, another rule for another.
> 
> I don't like excuses from any fighter. If you have a bad showing, you have a bad showing, lets not start with the excuses in the post fight interview with Rogan. In fact, i hate it when fighters come up with excuses, it makes you look like a prick and you're disrespecting the other fighter.
> 
> "Chael had a great showing, but I had hurt my ribs, so really, it doesnt mean jack shit".



Well said. It's nice to see someone agrees.


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Well said. It's nice to see someone agrees.


Weak comparison, BJ and Tito lost.

There's a difference between losing and great showing. 

Inevitably being stripped of the title afterwards for being pumped full of anabolic steroids even if Sonnen did win. Sonnen is a loser, hypocrite and a pathological liar, but he's funny and he has fans - right? so it's all good.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

MrObjective said:


> Weak comparison, BJ and Tito lost.
> 
> There's a difference between losing and great showing.
> 
> Inevitably being stripped of the title afterwards for being pumped full of anabolic steroids even if Sonnen did win. Sonnen is a loser, hypocrite and a pathological liar, but he's funny and he has fans - right? so it's all good.


So are you saying that if Silva did lose against sonnen, he wouldn't of mentioned his injured ribs? Jesus, the excuses would of been ten times worse if he had lost that fight.

I think its worse making up excuses even when you win the fights, its just rubbing more salt in the wound of his opponent.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Then don't blame a less than normal performance on injuries. I love the fact that he wants to fight, but I hate the fact that every time he looks human he talks about some injury that caused it. Excuses are excuses... hands down. If you're going to bitch about being injured, don't fight in the first place. Everyone is usually injured in some way coming into a fight. Andy is the only one I know (besides Tito) who openly blames every poor performance on his injury.


ridiculous, he has talked about injuries in 2 fights...2 out of 12 and he has never pulled ouf of a fight because of injury, his ''excuses'' are facts, he did IN FACT have knee surgery on both of his knees 11 weeks before the lutter fight, so ok, go try and do a triangle full force 11 weeks after having surgery on BOTH of your knees....go ahead, try it, let us know how it goes:thumbsup:

rib injury is also a FACT, thats why he will only fight later next year, it was pretty obvious he wasnt moving like he usually does, compare the sonnen fight to the forrest fight...forrest has always been overrated but after that AS fight he became underrated, he has good striking, much better than sonnen and AS made him look like a bum, a bum that was able to hang in there with rampage in the striking department, anyone who says that those ribs werent affecting at all his performance is simply blind.

does he have a weakness? yes...his wrestling is a weakness no doubt, that doesnt really mean that any great wrestler with good sub defense is going to beat him...in other words all we need for some1 to beat brock is great TDD and great stand up....no, mma doesnt work like that, many things can happen in a fight, does fitch have a chance? yes, yes he does, but the favors are on AS' side and rightfully so

like i said, sonnen defended the triangle well, he had good sub defense and still got submitted...those long legs of AS are a ******* nightmare, having good sub defense doesnt mean you can never get subbed, why dont ppl understand this?

anderson doesnt care if the fight goes to the ground, he lets it go when some1 goes for a TD because he believes in his ground game and damn i think he should have proved by now that his ground game off his back is dangerous, even if fitch manages to take him down (he will, i know) it doesnt mean he cant get subbed...fedor was able to escape from big nog but still got caught by werdum...yeah, the great fedor doesnt know how to escape a triangle:confused05:

good bjj defense doesnt = impossible to submit....anderson has proved that there isnt a certain formula to beat him, sure the biggest chance is with wrestling but his ground game makes it very difficult especially since its 5 ROUNDS trying to avoid a sub...5...oh and even with lutter getting the full mount (for a couple of seconds) AS got out of it because of those long ass legs

beating him isnt so simple, and even when he has an off night (every fighter has one, i know, but they usually LOSE on these nights) he still manages to win, a 100% silva agasint fitch would be a nightmare for fitch but fitch does have a chance

still, if by some miracle fitch won it would be the biggest upset ever...AS got exposed...sure...he gets exposed against every wrestler but he still beats them...isnt it weird that the greatest MW champion ever hasnt bothered to learn TDD? maybe is confident that he can submit anyone that wants to take him down...and so far, he hasnt been proven wrong:thumb02:


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Then don't blame a less than normal performance on injuries. I love the fact that he wants to fight, but I hate the fact that every time he looks human he talks about some injury that caused it. Excuses are excuses... hands down. If you're going to bitch about being injured, don't fight in the first place. Everyone is usually injured in some way coming into a fight. Andy is the only one I know (besides Tito) who openly blames every poor performance on his injury.


You know what I hate... guys like Vitor who only fight once in a blue moon..they get all these fights lined up and pull out over and over again.... because they train too hard or, crack an rib, or pull an acl, so on and so fourth..

Anderson makes excuses....ok if that's what you want to call it. To me it looks like he apologizes to his fans because they know he's more of a technician. He feels as if he could have operated more effectively..

Difference between Tito and Anderson..... Anderson wins his fights.

Anderson will walk into a fight after a surgery that's mental toughness. Win, Lose, Or Draw we have seen what Anderson Silva is capable of. So if he makes an excuse right now after a fight, I'm inclined to beleive him. Chances are he won the fight anyway.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

ACTAFOOL said:


> ridiculous, he has talked about injuries in 2 fights...2 out of 12 and he has never pulled ouf of a fight because of injury, his ''excuses'' are facts, he did IN FACT have knee surgery on both of his knees 11 weeks before the lutter fight, so ok, go try and do a triangle full force 11 weeks after having surgery on BOTH of your knees....go ahead, try it, let us know how it goes:thumbsup:
> 
> *It doesn't matter if they are fact or fiction, Anderson Silva is highly regarded as the best p4p fighter in the world. He shouldn't immediately tell Joe Rogan after the fight he had an injury, it just isnt professional and its disrespectul towards the other fighter, imagine how shit they feel after Anderson wins the fight, then comes out and says he was injured all along. That would make me feel like shit. Travis Lutter was also seriously dehydrated and drained, as well as completely unmotivated for the fight. They were both far from 100 percent healthy to fight*
> 
> ...


He beat them because they didnt have all the tools required to beat Silva. Hendo didnt have the game planning or the cardio to stop Silva. Lutter was dehydrated, unmotivated...he shouldnt of been in the octagon in the first place. Chael Sonnen almost had the full package, the wrestling, the cardio and the game planning. His awful submission defence was his down fall.

Jon Fitch has the tools. Wrestling.... check..... submission defence....check gameplanning.......check cardio.....check. He presents a lot of problems for Silva, whether you choose to acknowledge this is up to you, but if you dont, you will be in for quite a shock if Fitch ever does fight Silva.

*Replies in bold*


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

gotta give u guys credit, this thread has sparked more excitement then most Fitch fights have.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Really sucks because Fitch/Shields would have answered alot of questions.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> He beat them because they didnt have all the tools required to beat Silva. Hendo didnt have the game planning or the cardio to stop Silva. Lutter was dehydrated, unmotivated...he shouldnt of been in the octagon in the first place. Chael Sonnen almost had the full package, the wrestling, the cardio, the game planning, *the juice*. His awful submission defence was his down fall.
> 
> Jon Fitch has the tools. Wrestling.... check..... submission defence....check gameplanning.......check cardio.....check, juice..... *Not check*. He presents a lot of problems for Silva, whether you choose to acknowledge this is up to you, but if you dont, you will be in for quite a shock if Fitch ever does fight Silva.


Fixed that for you. :thumb02:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Who ever left me the neg rep saying:

"Thanks for the neg, hater!"

1.) I have no idea who you are
2.) I never leave any one neg rep unless they neg rep me. So no, who ever you are, it wasn't me that negged you.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Who ever left me the neg rep saying:
> 
> "Thanks for the neg, hater!"
> 
> ...


Amdm likes to neg rep if you talk against Silva


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Amdm likes to neg rep if you talk against Silva


I dont think it was Amdm. I wish i could see who it was and buy the lifetime packagae, but i always get a server error and the page never loads. Ive tried all different browsers.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> He beat them because they didnt have all the tools required to beat Silva. Hendo didnt have the game planning or the cardio to stop Silva. Lutter was dehydrated, unmotivated...he shouldnt of been in the octagon in the first place. Chael Sonnen almost had the full package, the wrestling, the cardio and the game planning. His awful submission defence was his down fall.
> 
> Jon Fitch has the tools. Wrestling.... check..... submission defence....check gameplanning.......check cardio.....check. He presents a lot of problems for Silva, whether you choose to acknowledge this is up to you, but if you dont, you will be in for quite a shock if Fitch ever does fight Silva.
> 
> *Replies in bold*


hold on, what i meant is that his wrestling sucks but it sucks because he doesnt seem to care about it, anderson doesnt work on his wrestling and he doesnt work on it because he believes in his ground game, he is confident enough that he can sub anyone who takes him down from his back, thats all i meant

and no, there are a lot of factors in a fight, i have admitted that fitch does pose some threat to anderson because of his style but to just jump to the conclusion that he would beat AS is ridiculous

theres one very important part that every1 is forgetting about fitches weakness, he has no power...in other words he will have to win via UD...and its pretty hard to avoid a sub from AS for 25 min, doesnt matter if you have good or bad bjj defense, its still very hard

and actually there was 7 attempts for the triangle, and chael shrugged the other 6 off, AS wasnt sweeping or scrambling because of his ribs, when he was on the ground he would barley move, thats because of his ribs, watch all of his other fights and see what hes usually like on the ground, if you want i can give you the links

and like i said, ppl dont give chael the credit he deserves, he did exactly what he needed to do to get out of that triangle but because of silvas long legs he still got subbed

and about the injuries, i wasnt implying it was ok what he said, or that is was professional or unprofessional, my point was that he didnt really submit lutter because he couldnt apply the pressure needed because his knees were fucked up, did you miss the joe rogan comment?

im not saying its not a bad fight for him, and im not saying AS could stuff all the TDs in the world just doesnt want to, what im saying is he doesnt care if the fight goes to the ground and to think that just because fitch has good wrestling and good bjj defense means he would beat arguabaly the best P4P fighter in the world is pretty ludocris, you know how many mma fighters have good wrestling and good bjj defense? ok so AS is the best MW ever but there are 3475 other fighters that could beat him...sure

fitch isnt complete, if he knew how to finish ppl on the ground with subs or GnP or had any KO power standing, then yes..that would be a hell of a fight...but he doesnt. he has to pray that he can grind out a decision for 5 rounds, if it was just 3 rounds he would have a much better chance but 5 really makes it hard


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

ACTAFOOL said:


> hold on, what i meant is that his wrestling sucks but it sucks because he doesnt seem to care about it, anderson doesnt work on his wrestling and he doesnt work on it because he believes in his ground game, he is confident enough that he can sub anyone who takes him down from his back, thats all i meant
> 
> and no, there are a lot of factors in a fight, i have admitted that fitch does pose some threat to anderson because of his style but to just jump to the conclusion that he would beat AS is ridiculous
> 
> ...


Ok, i agree with most of this and i see what you mean now about the wrestling. I didnt say Fitch will beat Silva though, i just felt that you weren't giving him enough credit and pretty much were saying he had no chance. Personally, I think he has a great chance. You dont need to be a finisher and have KO power to become a champion. Look at Frankie Edgar. GSP's finishing ability hasnt looked too great recently either. Sonnen is no finisher either and he came damn close to taking that belt. 

Fitch doesnt need KO power and deadly GNP, what he needs is his wrestling and control in top form and a great game plan. All things which i think he is capable of. I, am well aware this is Anderson Silva we are talking about though and the fight could end in a flash. How ever, i think Fitch if bulked up properly along with jake shields would case major threats to Anderson and give him a hell of a fight.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Amdm likes to neg rep if you talk against Silva




If you do it in a trollish hateful way, yes i´ll neg rep.
That´s why you´ve got one from me.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

AmdM said:


> If you do it in a trollish hateful way, yes i´ll neg rep.
> That´s why you´ve got one from me.


Which I did neither of. I actually like Silva. He's not one of my favorites, but I usually enjoy his fights. I just think it's hilarious that all of his fan boys first refused to give Sonnen any credit, now they troll sonnen at every opportunity, and refuse to believe that Silva has obvious andsignificant weaknesses.


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## KEYZER-SOZE (Jul 31, 2010)

TraMaI said:


> Honestly, I don't think he can beat GSP right now. Maybe if he develops his striking more and works on finishing subs then he could.
> 
> As far as Silva? Yes, I fully believe he can beat Anderson Silva. We saw what Chael did to him. Now imagine Chael with some of the best sub defense on the market and better all around grappling and more takedown weapons. (minus roids)


100% agree with you there, fitch can absolutely do what chael did and there wouldnt be a sliver of hope for andy to lay any miracle sub on him, fitch can take the mw belt easy.he needs to go to mw, gsp got's his number


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

*Hands over a flame suit*


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

KEYZER-SOZE said:


> 100% agree with you there, fitch can absolutely do what chael did and there wouldnt be a sliver of hope for andy to lay any miracle sub on him,


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

_RIVAL_ said:


>



Are you suggesting a "WRESTLER" like Fitch with Great Submission defence couldn't score Takedowns against a guy Silva who is very easily taken down


Lutter
Hendo
Sonnen
Okami


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

***** de Amigo said:


> Are you suggesting a "WRESTLER" like Fitch with Great Submission defence couldn't score Takedowns against a guy Silva who is very easily taken down
> 
> 
> Lutter
> ...


Lutter..... submitted by injured Silva
Hendo....submitted by silva
Sonnen.....submitted by injured Silva
Okami.....knocked out by Silva


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Lutter..... submitted by injured Silva


Although he finishes Lutter, I wouldn't really compare him to Fitch. Fitch has the wrestling to get the fight to the ground and I think his sub defense is much better than Lutter's. 



> Hendo....submitted by silva


Hendo was rocked on his feet first so assuming Fitch can stay out of trouble, I don't see it going down like this.



> Sonnen.....submitted by injured Silva


This fight was a double-edged sword for Sonnen. His bread and butter is wrestling and that is Silva's weakness. BUT, Sonnen's weakness is sub defense while Silva is a BJJ blackbelt. Fitch's ground control is much better than Sonnen's and if Fitch makes it as far as Sonnen did, I don't see Silva pulling out a last minute sub.



> Okami.....knocked out by Silva


This is a misleading example. Okami was on top of Silva when he was caught with an illegal strike. I think it was a BS loss for Silva, but that doesn't make it a legitimate win either.

I am not saying that Fitch will win this fight. But I think he has an extremely good chance at taking the belt should this fight ever take place.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

HitOrGetHit said:


> Although he finishes Lutter, I wouldn't really compare him to Fitch. Fitch has the wrestling to get the fight to the ground and I think his sub defense is much better than Lutter's.


Fitches sub defense is not better than Lutters. Not even close. Travis is a slick BJJ player. His two submission losses in his entire carreer came to masters on the ground in their primes.





HitOrGetHit said:


> Hendo was rocked on his feet first so assuming Fitch can stay out of trouble, I don't see it going down like this.


Fitch couldn't stay out of trouble on his feet with GSP, trust if he takes even a third of the shots he took from Georges he's going to sleep. No fighter in UFC history has ever weatherd a striking storm from Anderson when he starts unloading that many shots.





HitOrGetHit said:


> This fight was a double-edged sword for Sonnen. His bread and butter is wrestling and that is Silva's weakness. BUT, Sonnen's weakness is sub defense while Silva is a BJJ blackbelt. Fitch's ground control is much better than Sonnen's and if Fitch makes it as far as Sonnen did, I don't see Silva pulling out a last minute sub.


It was a double edged sword for Silva as well. Silva was injured and Sonnen tested positive for PEDs. Silva finishes Sonnen against those odds and receives nothing but negative criticism.





HitOrGetHit said:


> This is a misleading example. Okami was on top of Silva when he was caught with an illegal strike. I think it was a BS loss for Silva, but that doesn't make it a legitimate win either.


That victory is B.S. for Okami because upkicks are pretty common. And that was just so damn beautiful... If he hits Fitch with that... yeah it's gonna be painful..



HitOrGetHit said:


> I am not saying that Fitch will win this fight. But I think he has an extremely good chance at taking the belt should this fight ever take place.


I don't think he does. He got absolutly outclassed and destroyed against GSP. He's not moving up a weight class and taking out Anderson Silva. Fitch may have a slight edge on the ground, but Anderson has an edge absolutly EVERY WHERE ELSE.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Fitches sub defense is not better than Lutters. Not even close. Travis is a slick BJJ player. His two submission losses in his entire carreer came to masters on the ground in their primes.
> 
> *You casually left out the fact that Lutter was very drained and dehydrated going into the Silva fight, nor was he mentally prepared. Agreed on the sub defense though, lutter has some crafty BJJ skills.
> *
> ...


Styles makes fights. He got destroyed by GSP because for the first time in his career he was the inferior wrestler. He couldn't take GSP down and he couldn't stand with him. Anderson Silva presents a different stylistic match up entirely. He cant stand with Anderson, but he CAN take him down. Fitch has a huge edge in wrestling, take downs and control. Fitch's control is some of the best in the business.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> Styles makes fights. He got destroyed by GSP because for the first time in his career he was the inferior wrestler. He couldn't take GSP down and he couldn't stand with him. Anderson Silva presents a different stylistic match up entirely. He cant stand with Anderson, but he CAN take him down. Fitch has a huge edge in wrestling, take downs and control. Fitch's control is some of the best in the business.


I wanna see. It would be interesting to see a natural WW in Fitch Control the P4P king who fights at LHW whenever he wants to.

I think people are so desperate to see Anderson lose that they're just well wishing a hero to do come along.

John Fitch has never faced an opponent as dangerous as Anderson Silva. When he fought someone as remotley dangerous (GSP) he got splatterd from one side of the octogon to the other.

Fitch is an excellent fighter. But he's not gonna beat Anderson. Anderson has way too many tools for any 1 dimensional (non steroid taking) opponent to beat.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> I wanna see. It would be interesting to see a natural WW in Fitch Control the P4P king who fights at LHW whenever he wants to.
> 
> I think people are so desperate to see Anderson lose that they're just well wishing a hero to do come along.
> 
> ...


A lot of people laughed at the natural WW jake Shields chances before he fought Dan Henderson. A guy who has fought plenty at LHW. I know, hendo isnt silva, but you catch my drift.

That may be the case for some people, but not me. If i was so desperate to see Andy lose i would of been the guy calling Maia, Griffin and Leites to pull out the upset on Silva.

People said the same thing about Chael Sonnen. Sonnen has never faced some one as dangerous as Silva, he will get mauled.... you hear this time and time again. Fitch has been in there with one of the p4p kings and he may of got his ass whooped,but as i said, stylistically its a completely different fight to Silva. Fitch proved he has heart in that gsp fight also, hes as tough as nails, another attribute which is needed to compete with silva.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I just dont think you are giving Fitch enough of a chance in this fight, he could give Anderson a hell of a fight and could very well grind it out for 5 rounds imo.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Fitches sub defense is not better than Lutters. Not even close. Travis is a slick BJJ player. His two submission losses in his entire carreer came to masters on the ground in their primes.


Fitch has only been subbed one time and it was the first fight of his career. He has a blackbelt and has been fought people that have good BJJ as well. I don't see him getting caught with a sub like these people have.



> Fitch couldn't stay out of trouble on his feet with GSP, trust if he takes even a third of the shots he took from Georges he's going to sleep. No fighter in UFC history has ever weatherd a striking storm from Anderson when he starts unloading that many shots.


These are two entirely different situations. Fitch was forced to strike with GSP because GSP was the better wrestler. That fight was taking place wherever GSP wanted it to. This will not be the case with a Silva fight. Fitch can get Silva to the ground and I don't think he is dumb enough to stand and trade with Silva.



> It was a double edged sword for Silva as well. Silva was injured and Sonnen tested positive for PEDs. Silva finishes Sonnen against those odds and receives nothing but negative criticism.


I am not trying to take anything away from Silva. It was an amazing turn of events in a fight that he looked defeated in. But you also can't ignore the fact that Sonnen's sub defense is weak.



> That victory is B.S. for Okami because upkicks are pretty common. And that was just so damn beautiful... If he hits Fitch with that... yeah it's gonna be painful..


Yes it would hurt very much, but Silva doesn't have a long list of people that he has KO'd via upkick. I doubt that this is very likely.



> I don't think he does. He got absolutly outclassed and destroyed against GSP. He's not moving up a weight class and taking out Anderson Silva. Fitch may have a slight edge on the ground, but Anderson has an edge absolutly EVERY WHERE ELSE.


Like I said, the GSP fight is entirely different. Fitch is going to be the better wrestler in a fight with Silva. This was not the case with GSP so he was forced to stand and trade with a better striker.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> A lot of people laughed at the natural WW jake Shields chances before he fought Dan Henderson. A guy who has fought plenty at LHW. I know, hendo isnt silva, but you catch my drift.


I don't catch that drift because before that fight Sheilds was proven at MW, he had just tooled a top 5 er at the time in Robbie Lawler and held a victory over top 10 MW Yushin Okami. That was a very realistic fight. 




Mckeever said:


> People said the same thing about Chael Sonnen. Sonnen has never faced some one as dangerous as Silva, he will get mauled.... you hear this time and time again.


You do realize that Chael Sonnen was at the peak of his carreer, on PEDs and was fighting an injured opponent.... and he still got submitted.

He had everything in his favor. And he still couldn't pull off the victory. Anderson really is that good. He's an elite fighter. The best.




Mckeever said:


> Fitch has been in there with one of the p4p kings and he may of got his ass whooped,


Nuff said. No excuses. He stepped into a different circle of competition once.. and he got the living hell kicked out of him. That fight was not even close. Not for a split second.




Mckeever said:


> but as i said, stylistically its a completely different fight to Silva. Fitch proved he has heart in that gsp fight also, hes as tough as nails, another attribute which is needed to compete with silva.


No you're wrong IMO. 

Do you know what it's going to take to defeat Anderson Silva?

A fighter with a superior all around game. 

There is not a 1 dimensional fighter that can do it. This has been proven for years.



Mckeever said:


> We'll have to agree to disagree. I just dont think you are giving Fitch enough of a chance in this fight, he could give Anderson a hell of a fight and could very well grind it out for 5 rounds imo.



Yeah let's agree to not see eye to eye here because IMO John Fitch get's KTFO in round 1 or 2 against Silva.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> Ok, i agree with most of this and i see what you mean now about the wrestling. I didnt say Fitch will beat Silva though, i just felt that you weren't giving him enough credit and pretty much were saying he had no chance. Personally, I think he has a great chance. You dont need to be a finisher and have KO power to become a champion. Look at Frankie Edgar. GSP's finishing ability hasnt looked too great recently either. Sonnen is no finisher either and he came damn close to taking that belt.
> 
> Fitch doesnt need KO power and deadly GNP, what he needs is his wrestling and control in top form and a great game plan. All things which i think he is capable of. I, am well aware this is Anderson Silva we are talking about though and the fight could end in a flash. How ever, i think Fitch if bulked up properly along with jake shields would case major threats to Anderson and give him a hell of a fight.


ah, now i see where we stand:thumbsup:....yes, fitch does pose some problems, i just dont see it as clear cut as some other members saying ''oh he has good wrestling and good bjj defense, he would murder silva!'' but good to know you arent one of them

however we should remember one thing, how many WW are elite bjj guys in the UFC? is there any? and i dont mean about credentials i mean bjj guys that know how to finish some1 in an mma fight...there really isnt many, so even though fitch obviously does have good bjj defense we dont really know how good it is

could he avoid subs from the likes of jacare and maia? thats a true test of sub defense...i say fitches bjj defense hasnt REALLY been tested...though i could be wrong since i dont really know all of his fights, im just assuming this because of the UFCs WW division

on another note, i actually think jake shields would be a bigger threat...i really dont think wrestlers are the key, i think an elite bjj guy with good wrestling could beat AS and thats jake shields, the only problem is if he can take him down before getting caught, but once and if the fight goes to the ground i think he would have a better chance than fitch

if maia had good wrestling i would've given him a much better chance


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> I don't catch that drift because before that fight Sheilds was proven at MW, he had just tooled a top 5 er at the time in Robbie Lawler and held a victory over top 10 MW Yushin Okami. That was a very realistic fight.


*Thats a fair point. His natural weight class is WW though, and a lot of people were writing Shields off because of the size difference.*






> You do realize that Chael Sonnen was at the peak of his carreer, on PEDs and was fighting an injured opponent.... and he still got submitted.


*Very, very close to not getting submitted. You do realise that Chael Sonnen has a history of submission losses, infact 8 of his 11 losses have been via submission*



> He had everything in his favor. And he still couldn't pull off the victory. Anderson really is that good. He's an elite fighter. The best.


*
Never said he wasnt an elite fighter. Whether he is the best is up for debate imo. I feel he has been fed a lot of BJJ fighters and inferior strikers. He has faced two elite wrestlers, one Dan Hendo and the other Chael Sonnen. Both who caused Silva the most problems. One of those fighters couldn't stick to a game plan, the other has notoriously bad sub defense*





> Nuff said. No excuses. He stepped into a different circle of competition once.. and he got the living hell kicked out of him. That fight was not even close. Not for a split second.


*There arnt any excuses, but you seem to be completely missing the point that GSP and Silva both present completely different stylistic fights. Never said it was close either. Fitch couldnt take GSP down and was forced to stand and trade. Fitch wont be standing and trading with Anderson, he can and will take Silva down.*






> No you're wrong IMO.
> 
> Do you know what it's going to take to defeat Anderson Silva?
> 
> ...


*Fitch has a good all round game. He may not be the best striker out there, but he isn't the worst. Id say he was a better striker than Chael Sonnen. He has above average striking, excellent wrestling and control, great cardio and a great heart. Id say that makes Fitch a pretty well rounded fighter.*






> Yeah let's agree to not see eye to eye here because IMO John Fitch get's KTFO in round 1 or 2 against Silva.


I dont know how you break the post up into parts like that. You may have missed my other reply to you where i bolded all of my responses, on the last page.

*Replies for this one are also in bold.
*


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> I dont know how you break the post up into parts like that. You may have missed my other reply to you where i bolded all of my responses, on the last page.
> 
> *Replies for this one are also in bold.
> *


You just have to put quote tags around each part seperately as opposed to quoting the whole post. :thumbsup:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> You just have to put quote tags around each part seperately as opposed to quoting the whole post. :thumbsup:


lol thank you so much. I have been wondering this for ages, but felt like an idiot for asking.

Epic fail on my last post. I tried wrapping them round the text and quoting the entire post ha ha.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> lol thank you so much. I have been wondering this for ages, but felt like an idiot for asking.
> 
> Epic fail on my last post. I tried wrapping them round the text and quoting the entire post ha ha.


just end quote the end of each sentence you choose to debate like this... 

[/quote]

Or you can highlight the sections you are questioning and click the quote option n the selected highlight. 

Either way.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> lol thank you so much. I have been wondering this for ages, but felt like an idiot for asking.
> 
> Epic fail on my last post. I tried wrapping them round the text and quoting the entire post ha ha.


I just fixed it for you. If you go back to the post you made and click "Edit", you will be able to see what I did. :thumbsup:


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

KEYZER-SOZE said:


> 100% agree with you there, fitch can absolutely do what chael did and there wouldnt be a sliver of hope for andy to lay any miracle sub on him, fitch can take the mw belt easy.he needs to go to mw, gsp got's his number


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I just fixed it for you. If you go back to the post you made and click "Edit", you will be able to see what I did. :thumbsup:


Much appreciated thanks.


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

Jon Fitch = Yushin Okami, jack of all, master of none.

And Silva would likely get a KNFO victory on both......assuming he's healthy and mediocre strikers (like Sonnen) don't walk up to him and punch him flush in the face with a full torque in the opening moments of a fight.


Evaluating (roid-less) talent, Sonnen drops down, and I gotta say Nate Marquart's probably the best middleweight out there (with Vitor not really being tested yet).

But Okami may have the ability to 'Fitch' Marquardt at UFC 122, we'll see.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

so now the number 2 guys in other division just waltz into higher ones and become number 1??

doubtful.


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## Pound&Mound (Dec 10, 2007)

lawlalawlalwlwaw @ someone calling robbie lawler a top 5 middleweight


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> so now the number 2 guys in other division just waltz into higher ones and become number 1??
> 
> doubtful.


I'd agree with you, but it's still Anderson Silva.

Really, the other champs - GSP at catchweight or Rua at 205 would be underdogs to Silva. 

Only one is out there - i've punched my ticket on JBJ 'hype train' for some time now, I think he'd take Silva.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

I, am now a lifetime premium member and now get to see who leaves all of the immature, childish neg rep.

muahahahahahaha.

Pheelgoodinc, you were right, it was AMD who left me the neg rep. ha ha ha. This is actually brilliant. You get to see everyones true colours.


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> I, am now a lifetime premium member and now get to see who leaves all of the immature, childish neg rep.
> 
> muahahahahahaha.
> 
> Pheelgoodinc, you were right, it was AMD who left me the neg rep. ha ha ha. This is actually brilliant. You get to see everyones true colours.


Welcome to the club!


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## Pound&Mound (Dec 10, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> I, am now a lifetime premium member and now get to see who leaves all of the immature, childish neg rep.
> 
> muahahahahahaha.
> 
> Pheelgoodinc, you were right, it was AMD who left me the neg rep. ha ha ha. This is actually brilliant. You get to see everyones true colours.


cool story bro


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

MrObjective said:


> Welcome to the club!


ha ha, this is great.

Turns out, AMD actually hates me.

I owe you around 9 more neg reps AMD for all of that trash you left me.

Pound and mound, your bar is about to get redder too.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Be responsible with your rep power fellas...


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Be responsible with your rep power fellas...


Im just getting everyone back who left me anon neg rep. Its only fair. amd has left me like 10 ha ha.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> Im just getting everyone back who left me anon neg rep. Its only fair. amd has left me like 10 ha ha.


I'm guilty of doing that when I went gold. :confused05:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> I'm guilty of doing that when I went gold. :confused05:


Its a good feeling 

I can now have a signature and animated avatar, love it.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> Its a good feeling
> 
> I can now have a signature and animated avatar, love it.



Actually not an animated sig. That's gotta go.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Actually not an animated sig. That's gotta go.


Its hilarious though, you cant look at that sig and not smile. C'mon.

Edit: Is there any way I can see my rep history from when I first joined the forum?


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> Its hilarious though, you cant look at that sig and not smile. C'mon.


Sapp is a stud no lie...but the animated sigs are against the rules.. even mods and admins don't use them. 

I know, I know.... you wanna shoot the messenger...

if it's any consolation... congrats on going gold....:thumb02:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Sapp is a stud no lie...but the animated sigs are against the rules.. even mods and admins don't use them.
> 
> I know, I know.... you wanna shoot the messenger...
> 
> if it's any consolation... congrats on going gold....:thumb02:


lol. Ok, i've got a worthy replacement for Sapp, but not animated of course.

The dude abides.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> lol. Ok, i've got a worthy replacement for Sapp, but not animated of course.
> 
> The dude abides.


you messin with me mckeever? You know that sig is way too big.. I'm surprised the system let you upload it..


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> you messin with me mckeever? You know that sig is way too big.. I'm surprised the system let you upload it..


Nah, i didnt realise, my bad. I'll find a smaller one.


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