# UFC needs to get rid of Nick Diaz



## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

It's no secret that i am not too fond of Diaz however i have always respected the guy as a fighter a good one too. however given the recent events the UFC just needs to get rid of him. 

The UFC is in a transition faze right now with their big deal with fox and are gaining attention. So far in the UfC Diaz haz blown off a press event, thrown a fit after he lost, claimed he was going to retire, and has be busted for weed. Never had weed never will and when you put all opinions on weed aside the fact that the fighter tested positive for an illegal drug does not look good in the eyes of the public. 

The guy is a good fighter however he is a wild card and gives off the thugish vibe in a rather extreme mannor. If the UFC wants to be considered a legit organization they cant have a guy like Nick running around. 

Unlike the other sports the UFC has allot to prove as people who are uneducated on the sport see it as barbaric horrible human cock-fighting. If the UFC wants to become mainstream the people involved need to be better and more professional than every other sport so they can overcome and disprove this unture immage. Having Nick around can only hurt the UFC.


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## JWP (Jun 4, 2007)

They kept chael....

I never say they should cut anyone for stuff like this. Even when chael cheated i said a suspension would do

and i dont think there is much worse than that. even punching koscheck in the mouth after the bell


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Well apparently he's "retired" and I'm sure he'll be suspended even if he wanted to comeback.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

JWP said:


> They kept chael....
> 
> I never say they should cut anyone for stuff like this. Even when chael cheated i said a suspension would do
> 
> and i dont think there is much worse than that. even punching koscheck in the mouth after the bell


Testosterone is not an illegal drug and Chael didn't blow off a press conference, or say "I am through with this s**t" after he lost. Diaz is alot worse than Chael.


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## JWP (Jun 4, 2007)

americanfighter said:


> Testosterone is not an illegal drug and Chael didn't blow off a press conference, or say "I am through with this s**t" after he lost. Diaz is alot worse than Chael.



im sorry i have to disagree

i dont think you can hold what a fighter says after a loss like that against him too much

blowing off a press conference in say football is hardly a sacking offense

and as far as the testosterone thing, ill just say i like bispings take on the issue

additionally the whole 'proving its not cockfighting' thing means nothing to me. ive said it plenty of times - if you dont have the foresight to see its not human cockfighting' then go and watch another sport. just my pov


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

Diaz vs Chael
true personality vs act

I have nothing at all against weed, I actually like that, but it does not look good in the eyes of the public, at all.

but all in all, Diaz post fight speech, and if he sticks to this, is what bothers me most.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

JWP said:


> im sorry i have to disagree
> 
> i dont think you can hold what a fighter says after a loss like that against him too much
> 
> ...


I completely understand what you are saying and 6 moths ago I would agree. However as I said before the ufc needs to be better than other sports like football. Dana is striving to make it main stream and it isn't as simple as you say just go watch something else because the image keeps the ufc out of big states like new York and can hurt the ufc greatly in many ways. The ufc got rid of gun sponsors supposedly because they wanted to improve their image why shouldn't the try to increase the character of their roster to improve their image?


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> I completely understand what you are saying and 6 moths ago I would agree. However as I said before the ufc needs to be better than other sports like football. Dana is striving to make it main stream and it isn't as simple as you say just go watch something else because the image keeps the ufc out of big states like new York and can hurt the ufc greatly in many ways. The ufc got rid of gun sponsors supposedly because they wanted to improve their image why shouldn't the try to increase the character of their roster to improve their image?


Please. Every mainstream sport is full of arseholes. Dudes that are hated and constantly say and do stupid shit. In the UK, we are constantly astounded by the shite that some of our professionally footballers get up do. But we dont do anything about it. You know why? Because our primary concern when it comes to sportsmen is how good they are at "sports"... not what they say/do. Hence why they all still have well paid jobs.

In other words, no. The UFC dont *need* to get rid of Diaz. He has a lot of fans. He fills stadiums. He makes money. He can fight. The other stuff isnt even worth considering by comparison.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Soojooko said:


> Please. Every mainstream sport is full of arseholes. Dudes that are hated and constantly say and do stupid shit. In the UK, we are constantly astounded by the shite that some of our professionally footballers get up do. But we dont do anything about it. You know why? Because our primary concern when it comes to sportsmen is how good they are at "sports"... not what they say/do. Hence why they all still have jobs.
> 
> In other words, no. The UFC dont *need* to get rid of Diaz. He has a lot of fans. He fills stadiums. He makes money. He can fight. The other stuff isnt even worth considering by comparison.


F**k how many times do I have to say it. Those sports are already established and accepted. The ufc is growing has a false image it has to overcome inorder to grow therefore it needs to be better than all the other sports so it can get rid of this false image.

Just like anything in life when starting out and up and comming you need to be very formal and hard working and have something to prove. Once you are in you can relax a little.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> F**k how many times do I have to say it. Those sports are already established and accepted in the. The ufc has a false image it has to overcome inorder to grow therefore it needs to be better than all the other sports so it can get read of this false image.


Dude. People like Diaz help the sport grow, not the other way around. Sportsmen who are good at their shit and are also characters who draw constant attention are like gold dust. I think the proportion of viewers who are put of by the things that Diaz does are very much in the minority. I would bet Dana AND Fox would love another 5 Nick Diazs and Chael Sonnens. They are exactly the type of character a fresh sport needs.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

This is all Fitch's fault. Get rid of Fitch, keep Diaz :thumb02:


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I don't think so. he gathers interest and that's what UFC needs. Sonnen is still fighting for the title, Barnett possibly on his way back to the UFC after beong busted multiple times for steroids and destroying a company. Nick Diaz got busted for weed, that's nothing.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MMA is already an established sport. It has FOX backing it up. Someone smoking marijuana is not going to harm it. Its ridiculous how fragile people think the UFC is.


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## slapstick (Oct 15, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> Dude. People like Diaz help the sport grow, not the other way around. Sportsmen who are good at their shit and are also characters who draw constant attention are like gold dust. I think the proportion of viewers who are put of by the things that Diaz does are very much in the minority. I would bet Dana AND Fox would love another 5 Nick Diazs and Chael Sonnens. They are exactly the type of character a fresh sport needs.


Your first post was funny, but sadly true, this post is just true. Why did the PPV do good buys? Because Diaz was there, people love controversy. MMA will never be like football because they punch and kick eachother's heads in...

If you can't get over that then you will never like the sport. If you look at the UFC's biggest draws over they years they have all been pretty damn controverisal Kimbo, Brock ect.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Eh, he lost the fight for the interim title, he hadnt signed a contract for another fight yet. Him failing a UA is but it wasnt like it changed the outcome of the fight. Give him his suspension, let him come back and entertain people again. He didnt ruin an event, so I dont think he should be sacked.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Nick already got rid of himself. He's retired now.

I hope he stays retired and does what makes him happy. he doesn't owe anyone anymore brain cells.






Just a reminder:


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## HorsepoweR (Jun 1, 2007)

NFL/NBA players flip fans off all the time, get caught for weed, and hell even fight with FANS sometimes, they still keep their job. No different here. Diaz needs to stay.


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## cursedbat (Apr 11, 2011)

americanfighter said:


> Testosterone is not an illegal drug and Chael didn't blow off a press conference, or say "I am through with this s**t" after he lost. Diaz is alot worse than Chael.


Again a plethora of bad information to choose from in this thread but I'll just grab this one for now.

Get serious. I'm still trying to figure it out is it a problem with the ability to reason things out or is it the hate that is that blinding.

Um Chael used testosterone bro sorry very illegal and if you buy the retard argument that half the athletes use that they didnt know or it was for this or that I got that bridge to sell you. Also I remember a little problem he had with the courts and real estate right. oooops forgot about that one didnt you guys. I can keep going. But yeah that damn press conference thats a really big deal and it has me pissed off to.:confused03:

I mean get serious Chael is a douche and I love him for it he was suspended and now hes fighting for the belt. We need those kind of guys to keep it interesting. And Diaz makes Chael look like Robin to his Batman. Why else are you guys on here talking about him in a record number of threads. If Diaz wants to fight he will be back. And I'm pretty sure he was cast out of the UFC before, what else is he going to do but fight. Get a grip your hate is just dumb, its not his fault you cant understand what you are afraid of. Diaz has become one of the biggest draws out there. Proof is in the pudding.

Dont it make you mad?


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

They should Cut Diaz the day after they cut Sonnen.

If they havent cut Sonnen for CHEATING, they shouldnt cut Diaz for taking something which isnt even a PED.


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## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

Diaz is a poor excuse for a human being a loose cannon, and will no doubt f|_|ck up again and again if allowed back into the UFC.

But, the bottom line is that he is a draw, and the UFC needs its 'bad boys', even ones as 'bad' as Nick Diaz ... and now that he seems to have a direct line to fight top level MMA fighters, I don't want to be robbed of the joy of watching him lose fights and then losing it and blaming everything and everyone but himself for his own failings.

When he gets caught, punish him appropriately (2nd time caught, 1 year suspension ... the next time, whatever the standard punishment happens to be, and eventually if he gets caught enough he is gone for good.)

I used to just feel sorry for the Diaz brothers and their inability to act as actual human beings living in a civilized world, but it's just too much work to continue to try and respect them in any manner .... but, that doesn't mean just because I (and many others) can't respect them that they shouldn't be allowed to participate in MMA and the UFC.

Come back (in a year) homie, don't run away.


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## halifaxdonair (Aug 27, 2011)

they should fire a lot of people in the imaginary quest for mainstream acceptance. 

1. roy nelson is too fat.
2. dana swears too much
3. fitch plays too many video games to relate to the imaginary mainstream who think videogames cause murders
4. Anderson silva doesn't speak good enough english
5. frank mir breaks too many bones
6. overeem beats women.
7. joe rogan smokes too much pot.
8. rampage made that horrible ateam movie.
9. GSP greases
10. Rashad makes insensitive jokes about child molesting
11. cerrone gave someone the finger
12. nate diaz gave more people more fingers
13. BJ penn suggested he was going to kill gsp 
14. t. silva cheats on drug tests
15. wandi is a suspected axe murderer
16. Chael sonnen plagerises wrestlers (which is a double nono), cheats by using drugs and had other legal troubles
17. bisping cheats in every fight, gives crowds the finger and spits on corner men.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> It's no secret that i am not too fond of Diaz however i have always respected the guy as a fighter a good one too. however given the recent events the UFC just needs to get rid of him.
> 
> The UFC is in a transition faze right now with their big deal with fox and are gaining attention. So far in the UfC Diaz haz blown off a press event, thrown a fit after he lost, claimed he was going to retire, and has be busted for weed. Never had weed never will and when you put all opinions on weed aside the fact that the fighter tested positive for an illegal drug does not look good in the eyes of the public.
> 
> ...


Everything you have listed actually helps market Diaz and helps the UFC.

His crazy rants, smoking weed, his shit talking inside the cage, him missing press conferences. Nick Diaz is unintentionally gaining lots of attention and hype through doing things he isn't supposed to do.

It's remarkable really.

WAR Diaz


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

oldfan said:


> Nick already got rid of himself. He's retired now.
> 
> I hope he stays retired and does what makes him happy. he doesn't owe anyone anymore brain cells.
> 
> ...


You hope that arguably the most entertaining fighter in MMA, in the prime of his career stays retired.

Good one.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> You hope that arguably the most entertaining fighter in MMA, in the prime of his career stays retired.
> 
> Good one.


You want him to keep doing something that makes him miserable because it entertains you.


better one


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

oldfan said:


> You want him to keep doing something that makes him miserable because it entertains you.
> 
> 
> better one


Nick Diaz loves to fight. He is a born fighter. His heart is absolutely in this sport.

"You have to hate it to love it".

Nick's words, not mine.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Nick Diaz loves to fight. He is a born fighter.* His heart is absolutely in this sport*.
> 
> "You have to hate it to love it".
> 
> Nick's words, not mine.





> "I think I'm done with this MMA stuff, I don't think they can pay me enough to do this again."- Nick


Maybe you could show us some examples of Nick looking and acting happy in the ufc the way he does when racing?

EDIT: because if he does love being in the UFC then all of his recent drama would indicate that he is even more stupid than some members here have suggested.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

I can't believe the lengths that people will go through to support such ridiculous actions of Diaz. Then those people have the nerve to talk bad about Sonnen supporters? Look in the mirror. Their more similar now than ever. Pot. Kettle. Black.

FYI I never supported Sonnen failing his drug test or many of the above the top comments he's made. Diaz supporters will support this guy if he's caught smoking meth over a dead hooker because somehow it makes him "real". Give me a break.


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## Swiss (Jul 19, 2011)

I don't understand why some people are so eager to bend over to the moral majority to grow the sport. It's like they're so desperate for acceptance that they'd rather have a sanitised, watered down version of the sport. Whether you'd like to admit it or not, if the sport was full of holier-than-thou humble types like Brian Stann who are all so bloody honoured to fight each other then the sport would be a whole lot less interesting. Just leave it alone.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

oldfan said:


> Maybe you could show us some examples of Nick looking and acting happy in the ufc the way he does when racing?
> 
> EDIT: because if he does love being in the UFC then all of his recent drama would indicate that he is even more stupid than some members here have suggested.












If there was any kind of sign early on in life which shows your destiny in life, it's this picture.

A 7 year old child angrily waving his fist in the air for a school photograph. Nick Diaz was born to fight and he was born an angry young man.

Right after the Frank Shamrock fight, Nick holds Shamrocks hand in the air, looks at him in awe and says; "hold your hand up Frank, you're a legend". This to me indicates that Nick is clearly passionate about the sport he competes in and the fighters involved.

Again I will quote Nick himself:

"You have to hate it to love it". This quote alone clearly implies that Nick does actually love MMA.

I can't think of a more fitting example.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Why would the UFC get rid of him? You can't stop thinking about him. People on this forum talk about him 24/7. More than half the threads are Diaz thread.

Why would the UFC get rid of a guy that is so popular? That makes everyone talk? That everyone seems to be obsessed with?

You really kill your own argument with your obsession and fascination with him.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> If there was any kind of sign early on in life which shows your destiny in life, it's this picture.
> 
> A 7 year old child angrily waving his fist in the air for a school photograph. Nick Diaz was born to fight and he was born an angry young man.
> 
> ...


I can Quote Nick too



> "I think I'm done with this MMA stuff, I don't think they can pay me enough to do this again."


 That might be a little more indicative than a 20+ year old pic of maladjusted child.


but good try kiddo


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

His haters are more obsessed with him than his fans are. He is probably the most talked about MMA fighter so far this year. This is another thread that litters this plays of the same old Diaz talk.

Why would the UFC get rid of a guy that everyone can't help but talk about?


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## ArcherCC (Dec 12, 2010)

americanfighter said:


> Testosterone is not an illegal drug and Chael didn't blow off a press conference, or say "I am through with this s**t" after he lost. Diaz is alot worse than Chael.


No he is just a convicted felon, if your going to keep him cutting Nick would be stupid. Now that being said, Nick getting popped for pot makes me laugh because I can't stand him.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

oldfan said:


> I can Quote Nick too
> 
> 
> That might be a little more indicative than a 20+ year old pic of maladjusted child.
> ...


Where is that quote from? I don't recall Nick saying that they don't pay him enough for him to want to do it again?


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

ArcherCC said:


> No he is just a convicted felon, if your going to keep him cutting Nick would be stupid. Now that being said, Nick getting popped for pot makes me laugh because I can't stand him.


Shhhh

People here like to act as if Sonnen's criminal record doesn't matter.

Shhhh


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## slapstick (Oct 15, 2010)

halifaxdonair said:


> they should fire a lot of people in the imaginary quest for mainstream acceptance.
> 
> 1. roy nelson is too fat.
> 2. dana swears too much
> ...


I love the list but the fact that you cose rampage's movie rather then rampage's rampage made me laugh!


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Where is that quote from? I don't recall Nick saying that they don't pay him enough for him to want to do it again?


Can't you just take my word for it?


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

oldfan said:


> Can't you just take my word for it?


Nope.

Source of GTFO


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Nope.
> 
> Source of GTFO


kids today...

http://www.ufc.com/media/UFC-143-Nick-Diaz-Octagon-Retirement

EDIT:I actually got the quote from here. Now that I watch the vid it may nor be verbatim but close.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Chael Sonnen needs to go before Diaz. I don't condole what he did, but he does bring excitement to a boring ww division as does sonnen to the mw.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

ArcherCC said:


> No he is just a convicted felon, if your going to keep him cutting Nick would be stupid. Now that being said, Nick getting popped for pot makes me laugh because I can't stand him.


I know the point is that when all that controversy was going on all eyes weren't on the ufc. In order to find out someone just looking at the ufc would have to research it which the majority wouldn't take the time to do. However all they need to do is flip on the tv to see Diaz throw a fit and disown mma by saying "I'm done with this s**t" or find out he got busted for drugs. 

Like I said 6 months ago I wouldn't have said this however as they say timing is everything and having a character like Diaz is not good for the image of the ufc.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> I know the point is that when all that controversy was going on all eyes weren't on the ufc. In order to find out someone just looking at the ufc would have to research it which the majority wouldn't take the time to do. However all they need to do is flip on the tv to see Diaz throw a fit and disown mma by saying "I'm done with this s**t" or find out he got busted for drugs.
> 
> Like I said 6 months ago I wouldn't have said this however as they say timing is everything and having a character like Diaz is not good for the image of the ufc.


Ahh, so Sonnens actions are excusable because he did it before the UFC signed with FOX, gotcha.....


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> Ahh, so Sonnens actions are excusable because he did it before the UFC signed with FOX, gotcha.....


I don't at all condone what sonnon did but the truth is it's does not have the affect on ufc's image nick does.


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## Aiken (May 3, 2010)

This is about respect. Diaz doesn't respect authority in general and the UFC specifically. 
He likes to fight, and he has found a way to be paid for what he likes doing - all well and good. Nevertheless, there are rules and he apparently doesn't feel that he needs to abide by the rules - and this is where the rubber meets the road.

Opinions vary on the use of pot – but are irrelevant. If the rules state that you can’t fight with caffeine in your system, guess what? Don’t drink coffee before you fight! It’s that simple. 

In my opinion, he should not be paid for the fight not a cent. Furthermore, both the athletic commission and the UFC should (significantly) fine him. He should receive a suitable suspension from fighting (1 year MINIMUM). Finally, the UFC needs to let him go and never have him back. 

However, the UFC is a business pure and simple. Only they know how much money Diaz is worth to them (PPV buys for the fight were good - so it's not immediately cut and dry) - including intangibles - buzz etc. If the UFC decides that Diaz is financially worth the headache, Diaz will be back, if he's not making them enough money the UFC will let him go. End story.

In such a litigious society as the US, it won’t be long before someone decides they want their $55 hi-def PPV money back. With social media being so pervasive, I don’t think it would be difficult to find enough people who bought the fight to join a class action suit. If the UFC (or any other body) charges people to watch a “title fight”, and then schedules a fight with ineligible fighters. well they didn’t provide me what they said they would… I’m not a lawyer, but if someone can win $10,000 damages because their Honda didn’t get them the 50 mpg they were told it would, there has to be a lawyer out there that can make my argument in court and win…

It’s not as if the UFC can claim his behavior was a surprise… 

Nick Diaz UFC career - RIP


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

While my Libertarian principals tell me that people should be free to ingest whatever they want, when you AGREE to follow the rules and SIGN the contract you should be accountable if you fail to uphold your end of the agreement. Nick is an unprofessional man-child.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

Aiken said:


> In such a litigious society as the US, it won’t be long before someone decides they want their $55 hi-def PPV money back. With social media being so pervasive, I don’t think it would be difficult to find enough people who bought the fight to join a class action suit. If the UFC (or any other body) charges people to watch a “title fight”, and then schedules a fight with ineligible fighters. well they didn’t provide me what they said they would… I’m not a lawyer, but if someone can win $10,000 damages because their Honda didn’t get them the 50 mpg they were told it would, there has to be a lawyer out there that can make my argument in court and win…


No, you can't do this with a PPV card because every ad for the card says "card subject to change without notice". Your chances of winning a lawsuit or even getting a successful refund are zero because you accepted the risk when you bought the card. 

As for Diaz I think he is a clown but the UFC will never cut anyone they think can make them money. There is no hypocrisy, no matter how absurd or obvious, that Dana won't embrace if it makes them some extra cash.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> I don't at all condone what sonnon did but the truth is it's does not have the affect on ufc's image nick does.


Really? And the difference is??


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Soojooko said:


> Really? And the difference is??


Timing. The ufc has allot more attention now than it did then and it has to prove itself.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> Timing. The ufc has allot more attention now than it did then and it has to prove itself.


Prove itself? Its already gone into partnership with FOX. Its already proven itself. Warts and all.

FOX have no problem at all with Diaz and his antics. Same with Sonnen. Same with Rampage. Bisping. etc. Of that, I'm sure.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> Prove itself? Its already gone into partnership with FOX. Its already proven itself. Warts and all.
> 
> FOX have no problem at all with Diaz and his antics. Same with Sonnen. Same with Rampage. Bisping. etc. Of that, I'm sure.


This guy is just grasping at straws because he knows he is wrong.

Lesnar could go into roid rage. Flip the crowd off. And tell everyone he was going home to bang his woman...and that is ok. OK enough that FOX didn't seem to care.

American Fighter is acting like he has some stake in the company. I'm sure if it was SO bad for the company the UFC would get rid of him. I think they understand what is in their best interest a little better than a poster named American Fighter does.

I just find it funny how people will wreck Diaz and at the same time dismiss the fact that Sonnen had testosterone levels what? 10x higher than the average? And was facing 20 years for a felony, but got off because he ratted people out and got a plea deal. 

Funny how 1 is so bad, and the other one is just like a walk in the park...as if everyone commits mortgage fraud and is a dirty politician like Sonnen. Cracks me up really. The hypocrisy when these issues come up is amazing.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Soojooko said:


> Prove itself? Its already gone into partnership with FOX. Its already proven itself. Warts and all.
> 
> FOX have no problem at all with Diaz and his antics. Same with Sonnen. Same with Rampage. Bisping. etc. Of that, I'm sure.


Prove itself to the general public. Thats what i have been saying now that it is on fox it has alot more attention. Giving a good image and gaining popularity will open up new opertunities like ufc in new york. 

There is a difference between antics and saying "this s**t (ufc) sucks" if someone relatively unlearned on the UFC and they see one of the companies own fighter says it sucks what kind of message does it send.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> Prove itself to the general public. Thats what i have been saying now that it is on fox it has alot more attention. Giving a good image and gaining popularity will open up new opertunities like ufc in new york.
> 
> There is a difference between antics and saying "this s**t (ufc) sucks" if someone relatively unlearned on the UFC and they see one of the companies own fighter says it sucks what kind of message does it send.


Dude, I think you underestimate how much the "general public" like to see mad controversial shit. Like I said, you can be sure FOX *prefer* all the theatrics.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Soojooko said:


> Dude, I think you underestimate how much the "general public" like to see mad controversial shit. Like I said, you can be sure FOX *prefer* all the theatrics.


 I understand people love the theatrics but I just think getting busted for an illegal drug and saying the company sucks crosses the line.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> I understand people love the theatrics but I just think getting busted for an illegal drug and saying the company sucks crosses the line.


Obviously, it doesn't.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

White and the Fertitas haven't proven to be the worst businessmen so far. If Diaz' antics cause the UFC numbers to drop, they will cut him, but for now, it's obviously not the case.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Dana and lorenzo are both Diaz fans, and he draws strong numbers and has a big fan base, he's not getting cut anytime soon.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

maybe they'll cut Joe?


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> It's no secret that i am not too fond of Diaz however i have always respected the guy as a fighter a good one too. however given the recent events the UFC just needs to get rid of him.
> 
> The UFC is in a transition faze right now with their big deal with fox and are gaining attention. So far in the UfC Diaz haz blown off a press event, thrown a fit after he lost, claimed he was going to retire, and has be busted for weed. Never had weed never will and when you put all opinions on weed aside the fact that the fighter tested positive for an illegal drug does not look good in the eyes of the public.
> 
> ...


They just may end up doing just that. In some ways, I'm glad he was outclassed by Condit. That way they know they're not getting rid of the best guy in his weight class. 

But in some ways I'm hoping the guy just grows up and realizes how good he has it. I'd like to see just how good he can get, but he may now be peaking and on the way down. Maybe feed him to Kos, for one more fight and then be done with it. If he doesn't have any respect for the UFC and for MMA, then nor should they for him.


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## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

Calminian said:


> They just may end up doing just that. In some ways, I'm glad he was outclassed by Condit. That way they know they're not getting rid of the best guy in his weight class.
> 
> But in some ways I'm hoping the guy just grows up and realizes how good he has it. I'd like to see just how good he can get, but he may now be peaking and on the way down. Maybe feed him to Kos, for one more fight and then be done with it. If he doesn't have any respect for the UFC and for MMA, then nor should they for him.


I second all of that (especially feeding him to Kos ... I could actually pull for Kos for a change, which I never thought would be possible,) although I don't don't hold out much hope that Nick will some day 'grow up'.


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## cursedbat (Apr 11, 2011)

Who the hell are you to tell Nick to grow up. Lucky for you guys your life isnt on display it wouldnt be pretty. I study people for a living and Nick is not the normal guy. Hes not sitting in his moms house going to community college. Hes not working a nowhere job getting married and having 2.5 kids. Its a joke you guys are on here at all criticizing to this level someone who out classes you. Your understanding of it, and scrutiny doesnt make you right or powerful.

And getting rid of Diaz, lets throw him to KOS, the bros dont know business. Jesus man again wake up. We are on a board talking about Diaz based on the UFC who is the leader and at the forefront of the sport. They are not on a board about that one guy that works at Burger King from Kansas. What the hell are you smoking?


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

cursedbat said:


> Who the hell are you to tell Nick to grow up. Lucky for you guys your life isnt on display it wouldnt be pretty. I study people for a living and Nick is not the normal guy. Hes not sitting in his moms house going to community college. Hes not working a nowhere job getting married and having 2.5 kids. Its a joke you guys are on here at all criticizing to this level someone who out classes you. Your understanding of it, and scrutiny doesnt make you right or powerful.
> 
> And getting rid of Diaz, lets throw him to KOS, the bros dont know business. Jesus man again wake up. We are on a board talking about Diaz based on the UFC who is the leader and at the forefront of the sport. They are not on a board about that one guy that works at Burger King from Kansas. What the hell are you smoking?


It's the internet bro. Everyone on the internet has the right to scrutinise and criticise every one in the spotlight without ever taking into consideration their own current circumstances and the mistakes they have made in their own lives. Everyone on the the internet are perfect human beings void of any character flaws.

Since joining the UFC recently, Diaz has smoke some weed and missed a press conference? Who gives a ****?


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> It's the internet bro. Everyone on the internet has the right to scrutinise and criticise every one in the spotlight without ever taking into consideration their own current circumstances and the mistakes they have made in their own lives. Everyone on the the internet are perfect human beings void of any character flaws.


Sounds like what you're both saying is, judging is wrong. If course this is a self defeating argument as saying something is wrong is a judgement in and of itself, and therefore you're guilty of what you're accusing others of.

I think judging is a very healthy exercise, actually. In fact, I don't think it's possible to get through the day without make a moral judgment.


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## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

cursedbat said:


> Who the hell are you to tell Nick to grow up.


Who the hell are you to tell anyone they can or can not tell Diaz to grow up?

As for me, I'm a UFC fan and customer, in effect one of the people who pay Diaz's salary. You're a fan and customer too, so if you want to tell him to continue acting like a spoiled arrogant child, then by all means, go for it.


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## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> It's the internet bro. Everyone on the internet has the right to scrutinise and criticise every one in the spotlight without ever taking into consideration their own current circumstances and the mistakes they have made in their own lives. Everyone on the the internet are perfect human beings void of any character flaws.
> 
> Since joining the UFC recently, Diaz has smoke some weed and missed a press conference? Who gives a ****?


I'm sure I should check, but this must be coming from the only person who has never ever criticized or judged an MMA fighter. 

HYPOCRITE!!


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

cursedbat said:


> What the hell are you smoking?


the same shit that made Nick miss his presser


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

oldfan said:


> the same shit that made Nick miss his presser


May I have some?!...PLEEEEEASE?!:hug:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

NoYards said:


> I'm sure I should check, but this must be coming from the only person who has never ever criticized or judged an MMA fighter.
> 
> HYPOCRITE!!


I'm not a hater of any fighter. I have my likes and dislikes, and make comments here and there, but I don't stalk threads discussing certain fighters and continuously bash them when ever I get the opportunity to do so.

I try my best to judge fighters solely on their performance in the octagon, not what they say/do outside of the ring, that isn't of much importance to me. There are exceptions with guys like Melvin Guillard and Rashad Evans, who I personally don't like, but again, I don't consistently jump in all of their threads and start bashing them.

Who are we to judge these people we have never interacted with on a personal level?


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Calminian said:


> Sounds like what you're both saying is, judging is wrong. If course this is a self defeating argument as saying something is wrong is a judgement in and of itself, and therefore you're guilty of what you're accusing others of.
> 
> I think judging is a very healthy exercise, actually. In fact, I don't think it's possible to get through the day without make a moral judgment.


I stick to judging other people I have interacted with on a personal level. Not what I have seen on and off television, a few press conferences and some pre-fight hype videos. I judge people from whether or not I have personally gotten along with them, not what I have heard from others.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

cursedbat said:


> Who the hell are you to tell Nick to grow up. Lucky for you guys your life isnt on display it wouldnt be pretty. I study people for a living and Nick is not the normal guy. Hes not sitting in his moms house going to community college. Hes not working a nowhere job getting married and having 2.5 kids. Its a joke you guys are on here at all criticizing to this level someone who out classes you. Your understanding of it, and scrutiny doesnt make you right or powerful.


Ok well I am a 22 year old man who was faced with brain cancer at age 8 faced a 75% chance of death went through surgery chemo and radiation-therapy and has gone from on my death bed to boxing and training for endurance event Tough Mudder. 

Now I admit that this may cause me to have a harsher judgment of character than most but dont tell me it is so hard for Diaz to act right because he is in the spotlight and I dont understand how hard things can be.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> Ok well I am a 22 year old man who was faced with brain cancer at age 8 faced a 75% chance of death went through surgery chemo and radiation-therapy and has gone from on my death bed to boxing and training for endurance event Tough Mudder.
> 
> Now I admit that this may cause me to have a harsher judgment of character than most but dont tell me it is so hard for Diaz to act right because he is in the spotlight and I dont understand how hard things can be.


Completely different circumstances, different people.

Everyone reacts differently towards certain circumstances. Because some one may react differently or appear weaker to a certain scenario doesn't make them a bad or worse person.


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## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> I'm not a hater of any fighter. I have my likes and dislikes, and make comments here and there, but I don't stalk threads discussing certain fighters and continuously bash them when ever I get the opportunity to do so.
> 
> I try my best to judge fighters solely on their performance in the octagon, not what they say/do outside of the ring, that isn't of much importance to me. There are exceptions with guys like Melvin Guillard and Rashad Evans, who I personally don't like, but again, I don't consistently jump in all of their threads and start bashing them.
> 
> Who are we to judge these people we have never interacted with on a personal level?


So then you admit you do it, just not to Nick Diaz ... doing it to Nick Diaz is 'wrong'.

Like I said .... hypocrite.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> Completely different circumstances, different people.
> 
> Everyone reacts differently towards certain circumstances. Because some one may react differently or appear weaker to a certain scenario doesn't make them a bad or worse person.


Read my sig


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

NoYards said:


> So then you admit you do it, just not to Nick Diaz ... doing it to Nick Diaz is 'wrong'.
> 
> Like I said .... hypocrite.


I don't admit to continuously fighter bashing and judging fighters on a personal level I have never met before in my life, no.

80 percent of your posts are Diaz hate related. That's just sad.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

oldfan said:


> the same shit that made Nick miss his presser


Very cool! 

Heres my sample for the day:










WAR DIAZ!


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> *I don't admit to continuously fighter bashing and judging fighters on a personal level I have never met before in my life, no.*


Eh? Could I judge political figures on a personal level based on their actions? Could I judge famous dictators who were responsible for the deaths of millions on a personal level if I never met them? Extreme example, but it's the point is still valid.

When you can see what someone does day in and day out as a professional athlete, you can get a pretty good idea for what kind of a person they are. 

Also.... Pretty sure you've said some not so nice things about Sonnen's character a time or two.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> When you can see what someone does day in and day out as a professional athlete, you can get a pretty good idea for what kind of a person they are.


Sorry friend.. but no. You dont see what these guys do day in day out. What you see is *tiny* snippets of somebodys life in various clips or fights. Compared to the 24 hours that are in each and every day, do you *really* get enough information to pass a solid judgement on any fighter??


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## cursedbat (Apr 11, 2011)

NoYards said:


> Who the hell are you to tell anyone they can or can not tell Diaz to grow up?
> 
> As for me, I'm a UFC fan and customer, in effect one of the people who pay Diaz's salary. You're a fan and customer too, so if you want to tell him to continue acting like a spoiled arrogant child, then by all means, go for it.


Well you see now Bobby I'm not telling anyone what they can tell Diaz thats why there is a question mark at the end of the sentence. Sorry that ones not going to work here look at your position not mine. If you pay more attention you might be able to present a better argument but if you are already focusing on a pro fighters insignificant activities over the more substantial qualities and doing so out of hate or misunderstanding, fear, this mixed with other messages from similar traits would draw a little map out for someone to read. So you might want to take another unbiased look at your position if thats possible for you. 

If you dont get what I was saying than the reason you cant might be somewhere in this behavior my man. What I was saying you seemed to have missed. You have the right to run someone over with a car but theres consequences to everything even being a hater. I wont even get into the economical side of your argument.


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## cursedbat (Apr 11, 2011)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Eh? Could I judge political figures on a personal level based on their actions? Could I judge famous dictators who were responsible for the deaths of millions on a personal level if I never met them? Extreme example, but it's the point is still valid.
> 
> When you can see what someone does day in and day out as a professional athlete, you can get a pretty good idea for what kind of a person they are.
> 
> Also.... Pretty sure you've said some not so nice things about Sonnen's character a time or two.


Big difference from making educated, unbiased thought out observations, vs say say being a dick and making ignorant, close minded, unreflective accusations and judgments wouldnt you say.

Its like saying Obama doesnt have a birth certificate when he just showed the damn thing on TV. Either you have a fucked up agenda, you are dumb and easily misled, or you might just be a dick. And I mean a hypothetical person not you.

Funny how many people thought Diaz was a straight punk but little by little more have found out he's probably one of the truest guys to himself over anyone fighting and most people you know. Its in its own way a very rare trait.

Personally I love that Chael is a dick but I see it in a different way not so black and white.


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## vili (Jan 16, 2012)

I got used to the Diaz brothers, but at the end of the Condit fight it hit me again, Condit post fight had so much respect for Diaz, but then Diaz just had to bash him.
If Rogan was smart he would not interview him post fight.
But he is not smart.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> It's the internet bro. Everyone on the internet has the right to scrutinise and criticise every one in the spotlight without ever taking into consideration their own current circumstances and the mistakes they have made in their own lives. Everyone on the the internet are perfect human beings void of any character flaws.
> 
> Since joining the UFC recently, Diaz has smoke some weed and missed a press conference? Who gives a ****?


Maybe it's just envy that someone who is not that kind of perfect human being, but has so many big character flaws can still work and train harder and have more success then they...



Soojooko said:


> Sorry friend.. but no. You dont see what these guys do day in day out. What you see is *tiny* snippets of somebodys life in various clips or fights. Compared to the 24 hours that are in each and every day, do you *really* get enough information to pass a solid judgement on any fighter??


It's not only just tiny snippets, it's tiny snippets that the UFC wants the audience to see.

Whether you like that WWE like drama stuff or not is personal taste, but to think you'd get an objective view on the fighters and that those snippets you get from the UFC are not specificly chosen to involve the audience emotionally for promotional purpose is a little bit naive.


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## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

cursedbat said:


> Big difference from making educated, unbiased thought out observations, vs say say being a dick and making ignorant, close minded, unreflective accusations and judgments wouldnt you say.


Yes, my so-called dickish, ignorant, close minded, unreflective accusations turned out to be right.

Hey, but didn't you just finish saying that people who act like you claim I am acting are just being 'true to themselves' ... I guess all I need to do now to be your 'hero' is attack someone in a hospital.



> Funny how many people thought Diaz was a straight punk but little by little more have found out he's probably one of the truest guys to himself over anyone fighting and most people you know. Its in its own way a very rare trait.


This "truest guy" just screwed over his whole team, and the UFC with his "trueness". Being true to yourself at the cost of screwing over others is no great virtue, it's called arrogance and selfishness to most people.

You may see dicks and criminals as heroes, fine, that your choice, but it doesn't mean others who see dicks and criminals as dicks and criminals are 'haters'.

As I've said before, I feel more pity for the Diaz's than hate, and other than being a rule violation (and getting caught breaking the rules is an embarrassment to the whole sport, not just Nick) I don't care one way or the other about their smoking habits. I think they are overrated as MMA fighters (Nick especially, the UFC has exposed Nate) but that's not their fault, that's the fault of people who for whatever reason worship anti-heroes.

The problem with the Diaz's is that they are punks that need to resort to violence to resolve their problems, if they have a problem that can't be resolved with violence they run away ... bravery isn't only standing and facing your problems when the odds are in your favour, bravery is standing up and doing your best even when you are out of your element ... the Diaz's to me are not only anti-heroes, they are anti-brave as well.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

lol at pitying guys who are already more successful in their fields than anyone in this thread will ever be


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

HexRei said:


> lol at pitying guys who are already more successful in their fields than anyone in this thread will ever be


lol @ thinking your idea of "success" removes someone from judgement. Plenty of so called successful people are terrible people and can be looked at with hate, pity, disgust, or whatever have you. You also assume that no one here is capable of success, which is pretty narrow minded.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

It is funny how popular Nick Diaz is. UFC would be crazy to get rid of him.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Terror Kovenant said:


> lol @ thinking your idea of "success" removes someone from judgement. Plenty of so called successful people are terrible people and can be looked at with hate, pity, disgust, or whatever have you. You also assume that no one here is capable of success, which is pretty narrow minded.


Incapable of success? not at all! Many people here are successful. Few will ever be ranked #2 (or top ten or even top 100) *in the world* at anything though, so pitying a guy that is... well, legit lol. of course one can, but I can still find it hilarious.


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## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

As much as I dislike the attitude of Diaz brothers, I wouldn't boot either of them yet. Yeah, it isn't the first time one of them has ****ed up, and most likely not the last time either, but as long as they (mainly Nick) stay relevant and wont go too far, I would tolerate for them for a bit longer. Hell, as Nick keeps ****ing up, it makes it easier for UFC to lowball him during all the negotiations.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

HexRei said:


> lol at pitying guys who are already more successful in their fields than anyone in this thread will ever be


Success is not as relevent of how I feel about someone as character is. Diaz may be a successful fighter but I verymuch dislike his character as a professional.

My opinion doesnt change because of sucess. For instance I have stayed a fan of right from his fight with shamrock to his fights with silva and to present day. Also the janitor is not the greatest fighter but he is still one of my favorites.


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## zarny (Mar 4, 2007)

It would be beyond foolish for the UFC to get rid of Diaz.

You're certainly free to not like him but it makes no sense from a business perspective. 

He's good, he's exciting, has a fan base and attracts viewers. 

No one is going to say "well I was going to like that sport mma but that Nick Diaz guy was just too disrespectful so that's it. No way!" 

When other pro athletes are getting busted for steroids, crack/cocaine, domestic violence, or shooting someone, testing positive for weed won't raise many eyebrows. The science shows weed is relatively harmless and polls show the majority of people think it should be legalized. 

There are some who still have a strong stigma against but they are the minority. And if they knew how little weed really effects you they'd likely change their mind. Getting drunk off alcohol is a far more altered state of mind. 

And in an age where professional athletes stick to the script of tired cliches to avoid any negative comments Nick's uncensored honesty is marketing gold.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> I stick to judging other people I have interacted with on a personal level. Not what I have seen on and off television, a few press conferences and some pre-fight hype videos. I judge people from whether or not I have personally gotten along with them, not what I have heard from others.


I highly doubt this. It's literally impossible to do so. We gather as much information about people as we can, and then make judgments. It's part of being human. 

And even if you do successfully manage to never judge someone you've never personally met, it doesn't make you morally superior. In fact, just going off personal experiences is a bit naive. People generally only show their best face when you're looking. 

But get real, you judge people all the time, those you know personally and those you don't. You're even judging the people on this thread that don't agree with you! It's normal. It's necessary. It's even good to do so.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

Anderson Silva dresses kinda gay. Lets fire him too.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Calminian said:


> I highly doubt this. It's literally impossible to do so. We gather as much information about people as we can, and then make judgments. It's part of being human.
> 
> And even if you do successfully manage to never judge someone you've never personally met, it doesn't make you morally superior. In fact, just going off personal experiences is a bit naive. People generally only show their best face when you're looking.
> 
> But get real, you judge people all the time, those you know personally and those you don't. You're even judging the people on this thread that don't agree with you! It's normal. It's necessary. It's even good to do so.


I'm not judging any one in this thread. This is the internet. Everyone acts like a dick head on the internet. (Guilty)


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> I'm not judging any one in this thread. This is the internet. Everyone acts like a dick head on the internet. (Guilty)


And I'm disagreeing with you. You are judging and it's okay. It's normal. It's human.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

I do not like Diaz at all as a person, and not a whole lot as a fighter, but I don't think the UFC should dump him over this. Extended suspension? Sure. But he shouldn't be fired. 2nd strike, isn't it? 3 & out. He may be retired anyway tho.

It makes him look like a child IMO, but I don't think it's a huge black eye on the UFC. He'll be back, and exciting fans again. I've no problem with that. Until he does something like this again - this puts him on very thin ice. But he hasn't fallen right through yet. He can turn it around.


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

If they do keep him, which it sounds like they will, provided he hasn't really retired. He should not get any kind of fight that has any title implications until he shows he can stay out of trouble. A couple of fights at least before he gets back in title contention.

Although I am sure they will throw him in with GSP as soon as they can because it will probably be a big draw.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Term said:


> If they do keep him, which it sounds like they will, provided he hasn't really retired. He should not get any kind of fight that has any title implications until he shows he can stay out of trouble. A couple of fights at least before he gets back in title contention.
> 
> Although I am sure they will throw him in with GSP as soon as they can because it will probably be a big draw.


I say, two fights before a title shot. Beat any two of these.

Koscheck
Alvez
Diego Sanchez
Fitch
Rory MacDonald


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Calminian said:


> I say, two fights before a title shot. Beat any two of these.
> 
> Koscheck
> Alvez
> ...


fitch or kos could probably outpoint him. he'd beat diego or alvez. macdonald i dunno about. but im not sure why you picked this bunch specifically. I mean what about hendricks? ellenberger? kampmann? im also not sure a single close hotly debated decision loss to the #2 contender in which he was actually granted an immediate rematch should require two wins to get back to contender status. I'd say a win against kos or fitch should make him an immediate contender since it would go a long way against the "he can't beat a great wrestler" crowd.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

Diaz Vs Kos would be so lucky for Nick imo. I think he'd win by TKO and get right into the mix again, and it seems a bit unfair to guys like Kos and MacDonald who have rose the ranks to that point.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

The most confusing thing in all of this is why is weed even tested for. If it is not a performance enhancing drug, then what is the point. Seems more like surveillance for illegal activity than anything else. Why not ask for his computer to see if he has downloaded any music or films illegally. It would have about as much bearing on his performance as the weed he, probably, smoked weeks before the fight. If you are going to test for weed, you may as well test for alcohol. That fact that one is legal and the other isn't is such hypocrisy.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> The most confusing thing in all of this is why is weed even tested for. If it is not a performance enhancing drug, then what is the point. Seems more like surveillance for illegal activity than anything else. Why not ask for his computer to see if he has downloaded any music or films illegally. It would have about as much bearing on his performance as the weed he, probably, smoked weeks before the fight. If you are going to test for weed, you may as well test for alcohol. That fact that one is legal and the other isn't is such hypocrisy.


They do test for alcohol.

Here's a quote from Keith Kizer on the reasoning for testing for marijuana:

_"The drug is banned because of the damage it does to the person taking it," said Keith Kizer, Nevada State Athletic Commission executive officer. "It could make you lethargic, slow your reflexes, and those are dangerous things in a combat sport."_

I agree that this makes sense, *if the fighter is high during the bout*. Unfortunately the urine test can't tell if a fighter is high when he is being tested, or had smoked two weeks prior.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Koscheck at this point in his career said he wants big money fights, because he knows getting another shot at GSP is a long shot. His only chance is Condit winning, and thats slim. 

I think Koscheck would accept a fight with Diaz in a heartbeat.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

HexRei said:


> They do test for alcohol.


But not to see if the fighter has been using it weeks before the fight. A fighter could be destroying himself with alcohol and not drink a day or two before a fight, yet still be suffering mentally and physically from the effects. There have been times on TUF where fighters get faced the night before having to train and spar. Why is this ok?

Also: 

"The drug is banned because of the damage it does to the person taking it," "

What damage, where, to whom? With he amount of money spent trying to demonizing marijuana, and coming up with nothing, the USA could have built a moon base. The only damaging thing to one's health from using marijuana is incarceration. That is really bad for your health. As for fighting on it, I personally wouldn't do it, but I know many who have and it has no adverse affect on their ability to fight. It may have even had a positive affect. Depends on the individual, I guess.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> But not to see if the fighter has been using it weeks before the fight. A fighter could be destroying himself with alcohol and not drink a day or two before a fight, yet still be suffering mentally and physically from the effects. There have been times on TUF where fighters get faced the night before having to train and spar. Why is this ok?


They don't intentionally test to find out if a fighter has been smoking for weeks prior, it's simply the nature of the urine test. alcohol doesnt show up in urine for very long, its out of the system in hours. weed does, because the metabolite indicators are excreted out of the body over a long period. 

really it is not a major concern to them if a fighter smokes, as long as its not in his system when he is tested. the NSAC is, for example, fully aware of the fact that Nick has a medical marijuana card in his state and that he uses it for his ADHD, they simply expect him to be clean for his tests. This is true of many other banned susbtances- Tim Credeur's Adderall is a banned substance for which he has a prescription, but he is allowed to use it, he just can't piss hot for it so and thus has a responsibility to stop taking it in time for his test.



> "The drug is banned because of the damage it does to the person taking it," "
> 
> What damage, where, to whom? With he amount of money spent trying to demonizing marijuana, and coming up with nothing, the USA could have built a moon base. The only damaging thing to one's health from using marijuana is incarceration. That is really bad for your health. As for fighting on it, I personally wouldn't do it, but I know many who have and it has no adverse affect on their ability to fight. It may have even had a positive affect. Depends on the individual, I guess.


This is your opinion. However Kizer is of the opinion that being high slows reflexes which he judges to be a detriment to personal safety in a fight situation. I do not think this point of view is unreasonable. 

You don't need to drag politics in because that's not what this is about- there are lots of federally legal (or at least lower scheduled) drugs on the banned substances list.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

HexRei said:


> They don't intentionally test to find out if a fighter has been smoking for weeks prior, it's simply the nature of the urine test. alcohol doesnt show up in urine for very long, its out of the system in hours. weed does, because the metabolite indicators are excreted out of the body over a long period.
> 
> really it is not a major concern to them if a fighter smokes, as long as its not in his system when he is tested. the NSAC is, for example, fully aware of the fact that Nick has a medical marijuana card in his state and that he uses it for his ADHD, they simply expect him to be clean for his tests. This is true of many other banned susbtances- Tim Credeur's Adderall is a banned substance for which he has a prescription, but he is allowed to use it, he just can't piss hot for it so and thus has a responsibility to stop taking it in time for his test.
> 
> ...


You may disagree, and I understand your point, but I still think it is a political factor. Its illegality is a political factor, which causes people to tow the line in the ludicrous war on drugs. 

If the fighters safety is a concern, then why are obese fighters allowed in the UFC. Being overweight is detrimental to one's health, too. It is harder on your heart and makes it more difficult to defend yourself effectively over 3-5 rounds, due to poor cardio. Guys like Tank, Cabbage and Roy Nelson are/were allowed to fight and take horrendous beatings. This is essentially the same argument against marijuana, so no more obsess fighter as it adversely affects their performance, slows reaction time and is detrimental to their health. All fighters should have to pass a minimum endurance test and have a BMI at a determined value or they shouldn't be allowed to fight. Yeah right!


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> You may disagree, and I understand your point, but I still think it is a political factor. Its illegality is a political factor, which causes people to tow the line in the ludicrous war on drugs.


Then why do they test for alcohol? Did you know many over the counter cold medicines are on the banned substances list? They do not single out marijuana.



> If the fighters safety is a concern, then why are obese fighters allowed in the UFC. Being overweight is detrimental to one's health, too. It is harder on your heart and makes it more difficult to defend yourself effectively over 3-5 rounds, due to poor cardio. Guys like Tank, Cabbage and Roy Nelson are/were allowed to fight and take horrendous beatings. This is essentially the same argument against marijuana, so no more obsess fighter as it adversely affects their performance, slows reaction time and is detrimental to their health. All fighters should have to pass a minimum endurance test and have a BMI at a determined value or they shouldn't be allowed to fight. Yeah right!


They do require a doctor's evaluation and blood testing in order to get licensed, and people do get denied for health and safety reasons. BMI is not relevant to whether a fighter is healthy enough to fight safely (in fact BMI isn't relevant to anything).


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

HexRei said:


> They do test for alcohol.
> 
> Here's a quote from Keith Kizer on the reasoning for testing for marijuana:
> 
> ...


And yet they allow fighters to do those huge weight cuts. Physicians stopped Anthony Johnson apparently only short before a lethal level of dehydration (which is at around 15% fluid loss. Johnson got down to 187 lbs while weighing 217 lbs at the fight if I remember right, which would be around 14%. Already 10% is considered serious. At 5% you already experience grogginess, sleepiness, nausea and tingling in your limbs. That probably would be comparable to fighting high)


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Voiceless said:


> And yet they allow fighters to do those huge weight cuts. Physicians stopped Anthony Johnson apparently only short before a lethal level of dehydration (which is at around 15% fluid loss. Johnson got down to 187 lbs while weighing 217 lbs at the fight if I remember right, which would be around 14%. Already 10% is considered serious. At 5% you already experience grogginess, sleepiness, nausea and tingling in your limbs. That probably would be comparable to fighting high)


Weight cutting is a controversial issue and there are many opinions on both sides. It's worth keeping in mind that fighters do not fight at the weight they cut to, they spend the next 24 or so hours rehydrating which mitigates these effects, and as you mentioned they stop fighters who they believe to be cutting to dangerous levels. I am not saying this is right or wrong and I don't have any information of their justifications for allowing it.

Anyway this is a separate issue and doesn't have anything to do with letting fighters get high/drunk/whatever on a drug and then fight. I am baffled that this debate is even taking place. I am all for allowing fighters to do what they want in their own time but cmon- the idea is to promote a safe and level playing field and entering the cage sober is not an unreasonable request. We're talking about a matter of going a few hours without your particular favorite intoxicant, FFS.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Yea an 11 page thread in the middle of the front page littered with Diaz threads.

Of course the UFC needs to get rid of him. Obviously he isn't worth much to them.:confused05:


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

HexRei said:


> fitch or kos could probably outpoint him. he'd beat diego or alvez. macdonald i dunno about. but im not sure why you picked this bunch specifically. I mean what about hendricks? ellenberger? kampmann? im also not sure a single close hotly debated decision loss to the #2 contender in which he was actually granted an immediate rematch should require two wins to get back to contender status. I'd say a win against kos or fitch should make him an immediate contender since it would go a long way against the "he can't beat a great wrestler" crowd.


I like all three you mentioned, just not sure if hendricks is 100% yet. 

But Diaz has 2 issues. 1 is obvious, he lost his last fight. He's only 1-1 in the UFC. and 2, he can't handle the business aspect of the fight game, doing press conferences, and staying away from illegal substances. He didn't even attend the post-fight after his loss. No medial excuse, he just felt sorry for himself. IMO, he needs to start proving himself to be a responsible human being. If he can keep his act together for 2 straight wins, then yeah, he gets the shot. Seems more than fair.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Calminian said:


> I say, two fights before a title shot. Beat any two of these.
> 
> Koscheck
> Alvez
> ...


Why not DHK? I mean all Condit had to do to get the "interim" shot was beat an overrated Asian fighter. If Nick beats Stungun then give him a shot. 

On a serious note. Let him beat MacDonald. Little GSP isn't GSP, but it'd be a fun fight.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

HexRei said:


> Then why do they test for alcohol? Did you know many over the counter cold medicines are on the banned substances list? They do not single out marijuana.
> 
> 
> 
> They do require a doctor's evaluation and blood testing in order to get licensed, and people do get denied for health and safety reasons. BMI is not relevant to whether a fighter is healthy enough to fight safely (in fact BMI isn't relevant to anything).


I know about the cold medicines. Many contain pseudo ephedrine, which is a stimulant. Too much of it could cause a heart attack. Alcohol is a no brainer, its affect on the central nervous system is well known. The reasons why Marijuana is banned are spurious, at best. Most of it is based on theories or opinions from years of propaganda and junk science. You are not going to get a fair and balanced review of its effects in countries where it is illegal. The facts are going to be manipulated to fit a pre-ordained conclusion, when conclusions must always be drawn from facts. I have yet to read anything conclusive that it either enhances or diminishes performance. If there is no concrete evidence, how can you ban something? It appears to be more an issue of morality.

As for fitness testing, many fighters have been deemed healthy to fight who should never have been in the ring. Ali, for example, should never have been allowed to fight Trevor Berbick. Watch the documentary about the build-up to the Berbick fight, it is a travesty. Get the right doctor and any fighter can get a clean bill of health.

I wasn't serious about the BMI, just saying why not use it, all things considered.


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## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

From a Sirus Radio interview with Nevada State Athletic Commission (NSAC) Executive Director Keith Kizer.



> "The complaints have been mailed to him. He'll receive the complaint by mail and he'll have 20 days upon receipt to file an answer.
> 
> "With the complaint, those are just allegations at this time. There's been no finding against him. He'll have ample opportunity to respond to the complaint and then we'd put it on for a hearing at a time that works for him as well as the Attorney General's office.


To me this implies that depending upon the levels found in Nick's test that he may be able to catch a break due to his California medical Marijuana license .... maybe ... although that's a long shot seeing as the NSAC has never been particularly responsive to that kind of 'excuse'.

The mention of the "Attorney General" being involved is a bit of scary news indicating there may be criminal charges involved as well.

No fan of Diaz, but if his levels were low indicating a 'timing issue' with not quitting early enough, then I hope they give him a break, and even if his levels were high I don't want to see him to prison of get a criminal record for a simple positive test.


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## cursedbat (Apr 11, 2011)

Thank God you guys are planning out Diaz return and who he should fight and how many.

Diaz isnt getting any jail time.

If he gets off clean no suspension they could still do the rematch but I'd say highly unlikely. The fire has died some and I doubt Carlos ever wanted the rematch. Diaz will go straight to GSP if he comes back I hope. Though the McDonald fight would be sick. But its just guessing with crazy Nick. You guys should love to hate Ceaser because although hes $hit for a coach and manager he does serve the purpose of getting our boy Nick to stay fighting.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

NoYards said:


> From a Sirus Radio interview with Nevada State Athletic Commission (NSAC) Executive Director Keith Kizer.
> 
> 
> 
> To me this implies that depending upon the levels found in Nick's test that he may be able to catch a break due to his California medical Marijuana license .... maybe ... although that's a long shot seeing as the NSAC has never been particularly responsive to that kind of 'excuse'.


It's possible they will take into account attempts by him, or claimed attempts, or apologies or anything else frankly, in sentencing. They have that kind of leeway- they cut Sherk's in half, for example, while upholding Franca's, because Sherk fought it. They practically pardoned Marquartd. Then again, Nick isn't known for congeniality and I wouldn't be surprised that, given his history, they slap him with a year and half his purse.



> The mention of the "Attorney General" being involved is a bit of scary news indicating there may be criminal charges involved as well.
> 
> No fan of Diaz, but if his levels were low indicating a 'timing issue' with not quitting early enough, then I hope they give him a break, and even if his levels were high I don't want to see him to prison of get a criminal record for a simple positive test.


Ummm. no. Kizer is talking about the fine and suspension.

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/384194/Kizer-details-next-steps-for-Diaz/


Fighters can't face criminal charges over an athletic-comission-issued piss test, even in cases where they DONT have a state-legal doctor's recommendation- unless it would be a probation violation or something, it is not a crime to have metabolites in your urine. The attorney general is being mentioned because the AC is a state body sanctioned by law and the AG is a state's lawyer, lol. Criminal law is only one small part of the law, government attorneys have to deal with all facets.


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## joey.jupiter (Apr 7, 2010)

NoYards said:


> Diaz is a poor excuse for a human being a loose cannon, and will no doubt f|_|ck up again and again if allowed back into the UFC.


Well if NoYards says Nick Diaz is not a good human being...


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## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

joey.jupiter said:


> Well if NoYards says Nick Diaz is not a good human being...


well, good to see that joey.jupiter doesn't have his own opinion on Nick Diaz, and accepts mine so graciously.


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