# African-Americans in the UFC



## J Stokes (Jul 17, 2007)

_*Now I know what your gonna think...this is just another one of those "black guys" that thinks that the UFC is racist or something for not having a lot of African-Americans in their organization. But, I'm actually white and curious about something else. IF there were MORE of an African-American presence in the UFC, do you think it would be more likely that more black kids would be interested in the sport and start training in MMA? It seems to me that they're only really interested in sports that their race is dominant in, NBA, and somewhat the NFL. 

If there we more African Americans in the UFC, would we see more of a half white, half black, presence in the future? Let me know what you think. *_


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## Machiavelli_08 (Jul 24, 2007)

I think having role models from your own culture always act as an incentive to attract you to take up a sport HOWEVER you have to be interested in the sport in the first place which I think depends on your genuine enjoyment of what a sport involves regardless of race/culture.
Personally, I got into MMA when I saw how it was possible to win from seemingly losing positions on the ground. I loved the technique involved and the ability to win at any point when you use your brain...then having a friend who did martial arts extensively just attracted me to then take up jiu-jitsu...
My point is there are a minimal number of people from my particular culture, if any I'm sure if there was one I would become even more into this sport but for now my love of the sport is enough to keep going.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

This thread contains too many generalizations and assumptions and lacks enough (any) statistical evidence to spawn a meaningful discussion.


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## Machiavelli_08 (Jul 24, 2007)

I think he's asking for general opinions in respose to his general questions as opposed to statistical evidence based research on the matter.


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## RinguMaster (Apr 9, 2007)

i would like to know what black people think about this threat, if there are any on this forum :confused02: 

and yeah, some of the best fighers in the ufc are black, so to sum things up, i think black kids have more than one role model in the ufc right now


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## GodlyMoose (May 20, 2007)

Too bad not every black person is an african-american.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

Machiavelli_08 said:


> I think he's asking for general opinions in respose to his general questions as opposed to statistical evidence based research on the matter.


 I'm talking about the accuracy of the background information that the questions are derived from. I'm not talking about answers.

An extreme example:
How badly would a watermelon shortage devastate African-American productivity?

Whose music would white people steal if African-Americans stopped producing music in the wake of a watermelon shortage?


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## Machiavelli_08 (Jul 24, 2007)

jasvll said:


> An extreme example:
> How badly would a watermelon shortage devastate African-American productivity?
> 
> Whose music would white people steal if African-Americans stopped producing music in the wake of a watermelon shortage?


That really is an extreme example to put it mildly. As he stated he's merely curious and so has asked a question to remedy his curiousity. For me a more relevant parallel question would be something like:

If more people did Kung-Fu in MMA would more people start taking up Kung Fu again?

I think thats more relevant if you're thinking about generalisations. For now though I don't think it does any harm to respond to his question.


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## SATAN (Jun 27, 2007)

*I think the UFC is fine as it is right now, I have no problem with black people, well on second thought I do, well sometimes, but its ok if theirs more black people in the UFC as long as they dont act like Houston Alexander that they think their the sh*t or act unbeatable.*


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I don't believe so because MMA is a ver expensive sport to particpate in and inneer city kids can't afford leesons now middle to upper class african Americans I believe are going to be intersted just as much as white and hispanic and all other races but inner city kids cannot afford to learn the many arts that make up MMA


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

Machiavelli_08 said:


> That really is an extreme example to put it mildly. As he stated he's merely curious and so has asked a question to remedy his curiousity. For me a more relevant parallel question would be something like:
> 
> If more people did Kung-Fu in MMA would more people start taking up Kung Fu again?


 That doesn't work because it isn't based on an unalterable characteristic or stereotypes derived from that characteristic. The original post featured both.



> I think thats more relevant if you're thinking about generalisations. For now though I don't think it does any harm to respond to his question.


 I didn't say there was anything harmful about it. I just said it wouldn't be meaningful. It would just be an exchange of assumptions, bias, and generalizations.


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

I am not touching the Jasvll side of things, he is just looking for a logical argument cuz he is bored

As far as "blacks" in UFC or more accurtely MMA the problem is the stigma against MMA as a bunch of thugs where as respectable young men are boxers, football players, line men. I also think bbjd7 is half right. If more MMA gyms opened up in boxing gyms or MMA instructors gave of their time in boxing gyms we could see a change of the tide, as things are now I think its fine and more "races" will get involved as the sport grows, surely 100 years ago boxing was, and I hate to say this, dominated by white men. I hate to say dominated b/c I feel that in itself is racist. Course I could be wrong and the sport could go the way of hockey


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## dopesmoker (Apr 8, 2007)

thatd mean wed have like 20 more bob sapps to laugh at


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

jasvll said:


> I didn't say there was anything harmful about it. I just said it wouldn't be meaningful. It would just be an exchange of assumptions, bias, and generalizations.


Alright so I lied this one was too tempting. Isn't that 95% of the threads on this board? So following your logic why do you post here again?


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## j.farrell (Oct 6, 2006)

J Stokes said:


> _*Now I know what your gonna think...this is just another one of those "black guys" that thinks that the UFC is racist or something for not having a lot of African-Americans in their organization. But, I'm actually white and curious about something else. IF there were MORE of an African-American presence in the UFC, do you think it would be more likely that more black kids would be interested in the sport and start training in MMA? It seems to me that they're only really interested in sports that their race is dominant in, NBA, and somewhat the NFL.
> 
> If there we more African Americans in the UFC, would we see more of a half white, half black, presence in the future? Let me know what you think. *_


I think alot of it has to do with where there are training facilities. The Hub is California, and not in very urban areas either I might add. Then you have a strong presence in the Mid-West, which is prodominately white. Its pretty big in Florida, which is prodominately white and Spanish. Then obviously you have the Brazilains, which has produced some Black fighters. I think this will change also as the sport groes. I come from a very diverse school. Id say we are prodominately black. But there is a good mixture. It was funny, a bunch of us fought last weekend, and a few of us were sitting at breakfast, and one of the guys looks around and goes.."Man, this is a wild looking group, Two Egyptians, One Korean, Two AfroAmericans, and me, the token Irish/Italian white guy..LOL. Mushin Corberry runs an affiliate school of ours in SC. He has a pretty cool Myspace.com default pic....


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

IcemanCometh said:


> Alright so I lied this one was too tempting. Isn't that 95% of the threads on this board? So following your logic why do you post here again?


 You do realize the irony in asking a question derived from assumption and generalization to prove your point, right? 

Most discussions I take part in are derived from something concrete, be it a steroid test result, a judge's/referee's decision in a viewable fight, or an article claiming that steroid use in MMA is UFC's problem to fix.


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## Machiavelli_08 (Jul 24, 2007)

jasvll said:


> That doesn't work because it isn't based on an unalterable characteristic or stereotypes derived from that characteristic. The original post featured both.


You do make a fair point. However, if you wish to get pedantic in terms of alterable characteristics I would have to agree with the earlier posts because the effect of race is not necessarily unalterable. It's more a question of money being upper, middle and working class. Middle and upper class money facilitates being able to afford to watch PPVs, get interested in the sport then pay to join a gym and take the time to train rather than earn money to feed yourself and your family. In this case race is not a particular factor and so you must turn to class and geography.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

There's no shortage of African Americans in the UFC. Houston, Rampage, Terry Martin, McFedries, Din Thomas, Kos? (half?).. and these just off the top of my head. 

A half-white half-black presence is unrealistic, given that African Americans are only 15% of the american population. Yes, the NBA and NFL have such a presence, but those are pure athletic endeavours. Apologies for the racist, even if positive generalization, but african americans dudes seem to have more of an inborne pure athletic/cardio potential. Heck, look at basketball, football, boxing, or track and field.. you can count the non black guys on your fingertips. Whether it's an economic status thing, genetics or a result of history, I don't know. But MMA is more than pure athleticism, so it has more of an even race ratio.


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## Green Scape (Nov 15, 2006)

Why choose blacks? Why not Native Americans, red-heads, or freakishly short people?

If Evan Tanner comes out with the Harry Potter kids in his corner, maybe we can reach that demographic too?

Captain Crunch vs. Smacks Frog for the cereal eating group. But what if some cereal eaters enjoy Cheerios? Pretty resultless eh?


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## J Stokes (Jul 17, 2007)

*Ok, for the people who posted in this thread not answering the question or giving an opinion but instead bitching about how I posted it, F*** you and why are you reading it if you don't like it? ANother thing, your right, not everyone is African-American, but some black people don't really like being called black, don't ask why. African-American is the professional thing to say as is calling a white person a Caucasian. So for all the haters of my thread.... :sarcastic03:*


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

Machiavelli_08 said:


> You do make a fair point. However, if you wish to get pedantic in terms of alterable characteristics I would have to agree with the earlier posts because the effect of race is not necessarily unalterable. It's more a question of money being upper, middle and working class. Middle and upper class money facilitates being able to afford to watch PPVs, get interested in the sport then pay to join a gym and take the time to train rather than earn money to feed yourself and your family. In this case race is not a particular factor and so you must turn to class and geography.


 Now it's becoming meaningful. 

That was my argument the last time this discussion came up. The sports that are popular among blacks tend to be cheap to play and/or scholarship opportunities. It's an opportunity to move beyond inner city life, not a pasttime.


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## SgtSixpack (Feb 13, 2007)

Nobody mentioned but Anderson Silva is the MW champ and Rampage is the LHW champ, and they are both black.

Personally if MMA became dominated by black people I would not watch it. Im not interested in 2 black men boxing either. Despite any hostility toward me for posting this, I believe alot of MMA's popularity would be lost if that were the case. 

Aslong as u have guy's like 5'8 Igor Bochanchin slapping down "Big Daddy" Goodridge and other 6'4 black dudes I cant see it happening. 

Also Fedor ain't black is he?:thumb02:


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## J Stokes (Jul 17, 2007)

jasvll said:


> Now it's becoming meaningful.
> 
> That was my argument the last time this discussion came up. The sports that are popular among blacks tend to be cheap to play and/or scholarship opportunities. It's an opportunity to move beyond inner city life, not a pasttime.


BLAH BLAH


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## Machiavelli_08 (Jul 24, 2007)

So I guess we agree to agree now :thumbsup: ?


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## J Stokes (Jul 17, 2007)

SgtSixpack said:


> Nobody mentioned but *Anderson Silva *is the MW champ and Rampage is the LHW champ, and they are both black.
> 
> Personally if MMA became dominated by black people I would not watch it. Im not interested in 2 black men boxing either. Despite any hostility toward me for posting this, I believe alot of MMA's popularity would be lost if that were the case.
> 
> ...


Anderson Silva is brazilian, buddy.


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## A-5best (Dec 18, 2006)

Silva is Brazilian, not black, just dark.

Now, even if there were more top blacks in MMA for kids to look up to I dont think it would make a difference, it is a chicken or the egg argument. There are a lot of blacks in NBA and NFL because that seems to be what their race enjoys and emphasizes and that is why there are a lot of black players. Its not because there are a few great black players that everyone plays, it is because everyone plays that means there is more likelihood for great black players to come out. I hope that makes sense, its a little hard to explain.


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## TheGreatOne (May 4, 2007)

J Stokes said:


> Anderson Silva is brazilian, buddy.


Haven't we already determined that Brazilian is NOT a race.

So you're telling me on an application Anderson is gonna look at white and be like.."noooo..."

look at Native American and be like "ummm, nooo"

Look at black..."ahh, noooo..."

See Other "Oh ya, thats the one!"

Anyways...the question really could have been answered with a yes, sure a kid could see "Carlos Newton" or "Yves Edwards" and be like cool..I wanna try that, for sure.

In terms of the percentage in MMA right now based on US population, I think its a fair representation. If on a card 18% are black, 25% are Hispanic and the rest white...thats pretty much the way it looks when u look outside the window right now...


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

SgtSixpack said:


> Personally if MMA became dominated by black people I would not watch it.


Idiot.



J Stokes said:


> Anderson Silva is brazilian, buddy.


Yes, but he's also black. The two are not mutually exclusive.


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## THEREALJMAN (May 15, 2007)

Donald Rumsfeld is giving the president his daily briefing. 

He concludes by saying: "Yesterday, 3 Brazilian soldiers were killed."

"OH NO!" the President exclaims. "That's terrible!"

His staff sits stunned at this display of emotion, nervously watching as the President sits, head in hands.

Finally, the President looks up and asks, "How many is a brazillion?"


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## Cadillac (Jul 10, 2007)

SATAN said:


> as long as they dont act like Houston Alexander that they think their the sh*t or act unbeatable.


Damn, Alexander was such a douche after he beat Jardine. Damn, I want him to get a taste of a real Heavyweight.


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## UFCfan610 (Mar 28, 2007)

i'm black and don't know what to make of some of the posts made.:dunno: i don't know whether to laugh at some people's stupidity or be mad at some people's stupidity. almost all the black male i know love MMA. as far as our participation goes, there's not enough money in it right now. i think most black males from the inner city will lean towards boxing, football, and basketball because that's where the money is. i grew up in the inner city and if i had the choice of getting kicked in the face for $250,000 and getting in a boxing ring for $5,000,000, i'll choose boxing everytime. inner city kids want to get paid and right now, MMA just isn't lucrative enough.


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## SATAN (Jun 27, 2007)

Cadillac said:


> Damn, Alexander was such a douche after he beat Jardine. Damn, I want him to get a taste of a real Heavyweight.


*Thats what im saying I love to fight guy's like Alexander in the street win or lose I love to get down I hate thos type of *i*g*r*.*


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## AtomDanger (Oct 7, 2006)

J Stokes said:


> _*Now I know what your gonna think...this is just another one of those "black guys" that thinks that the UFC is racist or something for not having a lot of African-Americans in their organization. But, I'm actually white and curious about something else. IF there were MORE of an African-American presence in the UFC, do you think it would be more likely that more black kids would be interested in the sport and start training in MMA? It seems to me that they're only really interested in sports that their race is dominant in, NBA, and somewhat the NFL.
> 
> If there we more African Americans in the UFC, would we see more of a half white, half black, presence in the future? Let me know what you think. *_



The answer is simple...

BROTHAS CAN'T FIGHT.


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## AtomDanger (Oct 7, 2006)

UFCfan610 said:


> i'm black and don't know what to make of some of the posts made.:dunno: i don't know whether to laugh at some people's stupidity or be mad at some people's stupidity. almost all the black male i know love MMA. as far as our participation goes, there's not enough money in it right now. i think most black males from the inner city will lean towards boxing, football, and basketball because that's where the money is. i grew up in the inner city and if i had the choice of getting kicked in the face for $250,000 and getting in a boxing ring for $5,000,000, i'll choose boxing everytime. inner city kids want to get paid and right now, MMA just isn't lucrative enough.



because money is what matters to black people.
Not honor, integrity, a pure sport, etc...


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

J Stokes said:


> *Ok, for the people who posted in this thread not answering the question or giving an opinion but instead bitching about how I posted it, F*** you and why are you reading it if you don't like it? ANother thing, your right, not everyone is African-American, but some black people don't really like being called black, don't ask why. African-American is the professional thing to say as is calling a white person a Caucasian. So for all the haters of my thread.... :sarcastic03:*


Wow, relax a bit. They're just messin with you. Gooz Frabah....Gooz Frabah


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

THEREALJMAN said:


> Donald Rumsfeld is giving the president his daily briefing.
> 
> He concludes by saying: "Yesterday, 3 Brazilian soldiers were killed."
> 
> ...



HAHAHAHAHAHA..... I read this a couple weeks ago. It seems like something he would say in all seriousness.


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

UFCfan610 said:


> as far as our participation goes, there's not enough money in it right now. i think most black males from the inner city will lean towards boxing, football, and basketball because that's where the money is.


Gots to get paid son.



SATAN said:


> *Thats what im saying I love to fight guy's like Alexander in the street win or lose I love to get down I hate thos type of *i*g*r*.*


Wow.


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## Super Fudge (Jun 7, 2007)

The are a few reasons why were not seeing more afro-americans in the UFC. One reason is that even though it's fan base is growing at a remarkable rate there are no college or university scholarships or for MMA. Secondly, the amount of money that can be earned by a professional mma fighter is actually a pathetic drop in the bucket in comparison to what athletes are paid for in other sports. Thirdly, there is a cultural element involved...over the years black people have witnessed members of their community open doors for themselves through sport. These athletes become black children's role models and heroes and the type of athlete that a child grows up dreaming of emulating. I cant see many inner city black kids growing wnating to be like Chuck Liddell.


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## AtomDanger (Oct 7, 2006)

Super Fudge said:


> The are a few reasons why were not seeing more afro-americans in the UFC. One reason is that even though it's fan base is growing at a remarkable rate there are no college or university scholarships or for MMA. Secondly, the amount of money that can be earned by a professional mma fighter is actually a pathetic drop in the bucket in comparison to what athletes are paid for in other sports. Thirdly, there is a cultural element involved...over the years black people have witnessed members of their community open doors for themselves through sport. These athletes become black children's role models and heroes and the type of athlete that a child grows up dreaming of emulating. I cant see many inner city black kids growing wnating to be like Chuck Liddell.



I love how everyone keeps saying inner city.
Black people do exist that aren't inner city kids lol


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

Machiavelli_08 said:


> So I guess we agree to agree now :thumbsup: ?


 I haven't changed my view on the original topic. I have expressed a different view about a different topic, though.


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

AtomDanger said:


> I love how everyone keeps saying inner city.
> Black people do exist that aren't inner city kids lol


Exactly.


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## SATAN (Jun 27, 2007)

XitUp said:


> Exactly.


*Dude cmon thats fake, its hard to find a black person who doesnt have a criminal record.*


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

AtomDanger said:


> I love how everyone keeps saying inner city.
> Black people do exist that aren't inner city kids lol


 Do you think a black person that is raised in a middle class family more, less, or just as likely to become an NBA player as a black person raised in the inner city?

Do you think a black person that is raised in the inner city is more, less, or just as likely to become a doctor as a black person raised in a middle class family?


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## Green Scape (Nov 15, 2006)

How did we make the assumption that one race lives in a certain area, and what matters to each individual in a race?

I freely admit I can't read minds, but when did some of these posters get so good at it?

You don't know what one "inner-city" kid is thinking from the next. What each individual in a race is thinking from the next. Stop grouping people up on assumption.

What's that word, radiotype or something hm, can't think of it.


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## Machiavelli_08 (Jul 24, 2007)

Everyone needs to be careful here because many people are digressing from the original question in this thread...this is not debate about culture generally. It is about MMA and a lot of people are posting comments and treading on thin ice with what they are saying in my opinion...


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## AtomDanger (Oct 7, 2006)

jasvll said:


> Do you think a black person that is raised in a middle class family more, less, or just as likely to become an NBA player as a black person raised in the inner city?
> 
> Do you think a black person that is raised in the inner city is more, less, or just as likely to become a doctor as a black person raised in a middle class family?



I think anyone can be anything.

I dont play that, I was raised this way so I am a product of my enviorment bullshit at all.


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## Super Fudge (Jun 7, 2007)

A while back I watched a very interesting documentary about north american sports and how they evolved and changed over the years and one of things they discussed was how it has always been the impoverished or underclass (forgive the term it wasn't meant to be derogatory) who have excelled ad made up the majority of elite athletes. They showed some old, old grainy footage of bearded curly side-burned guys rocking the basket ball courts back when the "ghettos" were full of jews. 

It was fascinating.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

Green Scape said:


> How did we make the assumption that one race lives in a certain area, and what matters to each individual in a race?
> 
> I freely admit I can't read minds, but when did some of these posters get so good at it?
> 
> ...


 It's not an assumption that the inner city has a much higher ratio of minority races to majority; it's a fact. 

It's not an assumption that the inner city population has a much lower income relative to suburban and rural areas.

It's also not an assumption that sports that are cheap to play and/or offer a means to an otherwise unattainable opportunity for higher income and/or education are likely to attract those who don't have money.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

AtomDanger said:


> I think anyone can be anything.


 That's an answer to a different question.



> I dont play that, I was raised this way so I am a product of my enviorment bullshit at all.


 That's fine, but also irrelevant to the question you were asked.

The question had nothing to do with *could*. It only addressed *would*.


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## sauceon (Oct 16, 2006)

*great topic*

Unlike many people that have posted in here with irrelevant/racist comments, I would like to share my two cents about the question. I agree that having more role models that are black could be a factor in having young black kids striving to train and participate in the sport. However, it is not that clear cut and simple. As someone mentioned, there are factors such as socioeconomic statues, upbringing, networks and personality that need to be taken into consideration. I think it's very important that Dana white looks at the demographics of the country that he's serving and represent ethnic minorities in that light. Having one "token" black dude to play the hero for 5 minutes is not good enough for me. Furthermore, Dana is a businessman so it does not surprise me that he has first aired "white" fighters to appeal to a white audience that was represented heavily in southern states... Now that the sport is expanding it's time for Dana to step up and hire professionals from all ethnic groups... Lastly, I love how some of you can be so open with your racist beliefs behind a computer but in real life be silent:thumb02: Shows how much of a coward one can truly be:bye02:


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## Green Scape (Nov 15, 2006)

jasvll said:


> It's not an assumption that the inner city has a much higher ratio of minority races to majority; it's a fact.
> 
> It's not an assumption that the inner city population has a much lower income relative to suburban and rural areas.
> 
> It's also not an assumption that sports that are cheap to play and/or offer a means to an otherwise unattainable opportunity for higher income and/or education are likely to attract those who don't have money.


As long as no one is saying that because you live in a certain area or are part of the minority, that it's impossible to do anything someone a middle/upperclass can. It falls into easier, not so easy.

Some may think they don't have the options for certain things but they're only letting themselves down by assuming that's how it's meant to be. If you don't have opportunity, you make the opportunity.

Originally Posted by *Green Scape*
_*How did we make the assumption that one race lives in a certain area,* and what matters to each individual in a race?_

_This sentence might've made you think everything after it was based on that but it wasn't. It's the only thing wrong in my post.
_


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

sauceon said:


> Unlike many people that have posted in here with irrelevant/racist comments, I would like to share my two cents about the question. I agree that having more role models that are black could be a factor in having young black kids striving to train and participate in the sport. However, it is not that clear cut and simple. As someone mentioned, there are factors such as socioeconomic statues, upbringing, networks and personality that need to be taken into consideration. I think it's very important that Dana white looks at the demographics of the country that he's serving and represent ethnic minorities in that light. Having one "token" black dude to play the hero for 5 minutes is not good enough for me. Furthermore, Dana is a businessman so it does not surprise me that he has first aired "white" fighters to appeal to a white audience that was represented heavily in southern states... Now that the sport is expanding it's time for Dana to step up and hire professionals from all ethnic groups... Lastly, I love how some of you can be so open with your racist beliefs behind a computer but in real life be silent:thumb02: Shows how much of a coward one can truly be:bye02:


 It's always White's fault, pun unavoidable.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

Green Scape said:


> As long as no one is saying that because you live in a certain area or are part of the minority, that it's impossible to do anything someone a middle/upperclass can. It falls into easier, not so easy.
> 
> Some may think they don't have the options for certain things but they're only letting themselves down by assuming that's how it's meant to be. If you don't have opportunity, you make the opportunity.


 I don't disagree with this statement.


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## SgtSixpack (Feb 13, 2007)

Super Fudge said:


> I cant see many inner city black kids growing wnating to be like Chuck Liddell.


I love the way when I said I would not watch a sport dominated by black people including MMA if that ever happened, then someone calls me an idiot. Then you say that black kids will not pick Chuck Liddell as a role model simply because he's not black. Can u see how hypocritical that is?

Some black people really think that everyone is racist, they just dont realise that white people get a hard time too.


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## SgtSixpack (Feb 13, 2007)

jasvll said:


> I don't disagree with this statement.


Hey stop threadcrapping, u did it in one of mine and u made no sence just like in this one; u think u are smart, lol.

Ive been to the gym and back and ur still spewing rubbish in this thread- get a life.


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## Green Scape (Nov 15, 2006)

To the thread starter. I believe *race*, culture, financial situation, _shouldn't_ have any effect on what sport you enjoy, unless you are so deprived that you've never had the opportunity to see the sport making it non-existent. If you enjoy something, you will watch it or experience it, if you can't do those things, then it's *your* *responsibility* to find a way.

It might appeal to you more emotionally if you had someone of your own race as a role model, but you're only narrowing your choices based on just that, emotion (unstable). Wouldn't you rather life-learn with the mixed martial artist over the BJJ instructor, or would you choose the BJJ instructor because he happens to be your race and you got all gitty? You're only depriving yourself if you choose the BJJ instructor for life because in the end the mixed martial artist student will have options that will never exist to you because you got hyped up on someone you think you "relate" to more. I'd rather pick the red gummi bears from a bag of mixed gummi bears, then having to choose from a bag of just red ones. 

I feel options are important enough to create them if they don't exist. If they do exist, then no one else (even a rolemodel of your race) should have any say in what you do with those options regardless of any life situation you're in. You don't need _other_ people to influence what you can and can't do, it's up to you as an individual, not a statistic.

In a shorter answer, if you're black and like mma, watch it (when does race come in?). If you're black and don't like mma, don't watch it.

Go Captain Planet!


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## RinguMaster (Apr 9, 2007)

J Stokes said:


> *...but some black people don't really like being called black, don't ask why. African-American is the professional thing to say as is calling a white person a Caucasian. So for all the haters of my thread.... :sarcastic03:*


man, you can call me ****** or white bitch, i don't care :lol:


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## J Stokes (Jul 17, 2007)

RinguMaster said:


> man, you can call me ****** or white bitch, i don't care :lol:


haha same here...


----------



## RinguMaster (Apr 9, 2007)

A-5best said:


> Silva is Brazilian, not black, just dark.


how come we don't call them african-brazilians? btw. he is my favorite fighter raise01:


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

What we need in the UFC is more black guys like Rampage and Anderson (yeah I know he's Brazilian, but he's got african ancestry), and less cocky douchebags like Houston and Din Thomas. Stereotypical cocky fuks like those latter two are what make people racist. Guys like Rampage and Silva are inspirations.


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## RinguMaster (Apr 9, 2007)

jasvll said:


> That was my argument the last time this discussion came up. The sports that are popular among blacks tend to be cheap to play


since when is american football cheap sport?


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## Cadillac (Jul 10, 2007)

RinguMaster said:


> since when is american football cheap sport?


In most high schools, football is sanctioned, so it only costs very little, for the whole season. In my case, $15.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

SgtSixpack said:


> Hey stop threadcrapping, u did it in one of mine and u made no sence just like in this one; u think u are smart, lol.


 Do you think you're dumb?



> Ive been to the gym and back and ur still spewing rubbish in this thread- get a life.


 So, you're posting before you go to the gym, and the first thing you do when you get back is start posting again?


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

RinguMaster said:


> since when is american football cheap sport?


 'and/or'  In football's case, it's the 'or.'




Liddellianenko said:


> What we need in the UFC is more black guys like Rampage and Anderson (yeah I know he's Brazilian, but he's got african ancestry), and less cocky douchebags like Houston and Din Thomas. Stereotypical cocky fuks like those latter two are what make people racist.


 No, they are what racist people point to when trying to justify their irrational hatred.



> Guys like Rampage and Silva are inspirations.


 And it has absolutely nothing to do with the color of their skin.


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

SgtSixpack said:


> I love the way when I said I would not watch a sport dominated by black people including MMA if that ever happened, then someone calls me an idiot. Then you say that black kids will not pick Chuck Liddell as a role model simply because he's not black. Can u see how hypocritical that is?


I called you an idiot but I never said anything about black kids not looking up to Chuck cos of his race. It doesn't count as hypocrisy unless the same person said the two different things...

Very few of my mma heroes are of the same race as me.



Liddellianenko said:


> Stereotypical cocky fuks like those latter two are what make people racist.


No, ignorance and stupidity is what makes people racist.


----------



## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

I find myself thinking of guys like Jens Pulver, why? Its simple really he wasn't brought up in the best circumstances. Pulver was dirt poor and had a very abusive father, I haven't read his bio but I would wonder what made him choose MMA and not say baseball or boxing himself. So much is being said about sports, blacks, inner city vs. middle class I figure throwing out a white kid that came from lower class might change the scope and trend of the discussion.


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## j.farrell (Oct 6, 2006)

RinguMaster said:


> how come we don't call them african-brazilians? btw. he is my favorite fighter raise01:


That would be the PC term. They are African-Brazilians. Brazil had more African slaves than the United States did. The Portugese colonized Brazil, and brought them there. That was where Capoira came from. The slaves werent allowed to train to fight. So they disguised their training, and made it appear to be dancing.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

IcemanCometh said:


> I find myself thinking of guys like Jens Pulver, why? Its simple really he wasn't brought up in the best circumstances. Pulver was dirt poor and had a very abusive father, I haven't read his bio but I would wonder what made him choose MMA and not say baseball or boxing himself. So much is being said about sports, blacks, inner city vs. middle class I figure throwing out a white kid that came from lower class might change the scope and trend of the discussion.


 Pulver came up through wrestling, which offers the same path to higher education as football or basketball.

I don't know if Pulver got through college on a scholarship, though. I've read about his father being abusive, but he was abusive in a 5 bedroom house. Nothing I've seen indicated that money was an issue.


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## SgtSixpack (Feb 13, 2007)

XitUp said:


> I called you an idiot but I never said anything about black kids not looking up to Chuck cos of his race. It doesn't count as hypocrisy unless the same person said the two different things...


Listen fool, its hypocracy because u didnt call all the black kids idiots for not wanting a white role model.



> Very few of my mma heroes are of the same race as me.
> 
> 
> No, ignorance and stupidity is what makes people racist.


No its cause black people think they are cool for being a black thug, and they are overly aggressive in situations where a white person would just ignore it. 

There has been another killing in London by black youths with handguns. Thats why people dont like them. 

I mean who knew anything about Muslims till they started blowing up the twin towers? Now they are top of the list for being the most disliked race. Ontop of that, its just a small minority carrying out these attacks but it tars them all with the same brush.

Look at what the blacks did to the White Farmers in Zimbabwae! They made them leave and if they did not they came in the night and killed them! Thats not racism though, cause its black killing white and thats ok. Jerk.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

> I mean who knew anything about Muslims till they started blowing up the twin towers?


 Well, considering there are over 1.3 billion of them, I'm sure a few people had run into Muslims before Sept. 11, 2001. Hell, some people might have even taken notice back in 2000, when some Muslims blew up the USS Coal. Maybe they noticed when some Muslims blew up the US Embassy in Africa in 1998. Maybe they took notice when some Muslims first tried to destroy the twin towers back in 1993. I'm sure the CIA noticed that the terrorists they were funding in Afghanistan (with Bin Laden in charge) were Muslim. I'm sure during the twenty years the US were selling arms to Iraq that they noticed a few Muslims. I'm guessing Jimmy Carter and a few other people knew that it was Muslims that kidnapped the Americans in Iran (apparently they were still mad about the CIA sponsoring a coup that overthrew their *democratically* elected leader and installed an authoritarian regime that better suited the tastes of the US). Of course, we could go back a century or so to when the Ottoman Empire ruled the Middle East and parts of Africa...

Yeah, I'm sure some people were aware of Muslims before 2001. 

I'm also sure many of those Muslims are familiar with Christianity and its less than stellar record when it comes to not killing people. They're also likely familiar with the US and its foreign policy of shoot first (if you can't pay someone else to secretly do the shooting) so you don't have to ask questions later. 



> Now they are top of the list for being the most disliked race. Ontop of that, its just a small minority carrying out these attacks but it tars them all with the same brush.


 Islam is not a race, and considering the number of currently living Muslims who haven't carried out 'terrorist' attacks (over a billion) to those who have (a hundred or so)...


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

SgtSixpack said:


> Listen fool, its hypocracy because u didnt call all the black kids idiots for not wanting a white role model.


When did I say that? I said that to me race isn't an issue with who I admire and respect.



SgtSixpack said:


> I mean who knew anything about Muslims till they started blowing up the twin towers?


I did. I assume most other educated people did too.



SgtSixpack said:


> Now they are top of the list for being the most disliked race. Ontop of that, its just a small minority carrying out these attacks but it tars them all with the same brush.


Yes, morons do tar them all with the same brush.



SgtSixpack said:


> Look at what the blacks did to the White Farmers in Zimbabwae! They made them leave and if they did not they came in the night and killed them! Thats not racism though, cause its black killing white and thats ok. Jerk.


That's not racism, that's outright corruption. The land was given to Mugabe's cronies.
The vast majority of black people in Zimbabwe got **** all out of the deal.


----------



## SgtSixpack (Feb 13, 2007)

jasvll They're also likely familiar with the US and its foreign policy of shoot first (if you can't pay someone else to secretly do the shooting) so you don't have to ask questions later. :)[/quote said:


> Er what the hell are u talking about? If US pilot do friendly fire on UK ground vehicles like was in the paper there is a whole lot of fuss. Even if u shoot ur teammate in AA u go to Military jail...
> 
> 
> > Islam is not a race, *and considering the number of currently living Muslims who haven't carried out 'terrorist' attacks (over a billion) to those who have (a hundred or so)...*
> ...


----------



## SgtSixpack (Feb 13, 2007)

XitUp said:


> When did I say that? I said that to me race isn't an issue with who I admire and respect.


Exactly u didnt say it, thats my point u retard. STFU.


----------



## Green Scape (Nov 15, 2006)

SgtSixpack said:


> Listen fool, its hypocracy because u didnt call all the black kids idiots for not wanting a white role model.


Hm..



SgtSixpack said:


> No its cause black people think they are cool for being a black thug, and they are overly aggressive in situations where a white person would just ignore it.


And you base this on what, ALL black people would do this? ... and ALL white people would do that? I pity you, and I don't hand that sh*t out, ever. You're in a stubborn bubble of ignorance where you stereotype a group by putting all the negatives and apply it to that group. You're not biased at all, because EVERY black person are clones, and so is EVERY white person right?:dunno: 



SgtSixpack said:


> There has been another killing in London by black youths with handguns. Thats why people dont like them.


People? Or just you and the ignorant? Shit, if I had a nickel for everytime a white kid shotup a school because he couldn't control his emotional setbacks.....!?! I'd have just as much money as if I bet on black kids doing something similar (or any other race for that matter). Did you think I'd go down that road? 



SgtSixpack said:


> I mean who knew anything about Muslims till they started blowing up the twin towers? Now they are top of the list for being the most disliked race. Ontop of that, its just a small minority carrying out these attacks but it tars them all with the same brush.


Only to people like you, the stereotyping ignorant. When we nuked Japan, I'm sure ALLL of them were bad and deserving right? Maybe if your child walked up to you with half of her face missing and a melted arm to her waiste, you'd be a little down eh? But according to your logic, if America was nuked. WE'D ALL DESERVE it if the other country hated Americans right, even the defenseless, or the bum on the bench who didn't even know we were at war? Throw her in a trash bag and go grab some Wendy's.



SgtSixpack said:


> Look at what the blacks did to the White Farmers in Zimbabwae! They made them leave and if they did not they came in the night and killed them! Thats not racism though, cause its black killing white and thats ok. Jerk.


And the whites haven't done anything similar to the blacks? How sheltered are you? It doesn't matter what color you are, it's people killing people in the end. You haven't pointed out anything a white person has done that's bad, are you white?

Holy crap, a biased "white minority"?


----------



## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

SgtSixpack said:


> Er what the hell are u talking about? If US pilot do friendly fire on UK ground vehicles like was in the paper there is a whole lot of fuss. Even if u shoot ur teammate in AA u go to Military jail...


 No one's gone to jail, as I recall, and are you suggesting that there shouldn't be a fuss when you kill your own 'teammate?'

Besides, I was thinking more along the lines of overthrowing democratically elected leaders in foreign countries so you can secure better deals on oil without considering that the people of those countries might take offense. I was thinking more along the lines of telling South Korea, Japan, and Okinawa that you will be occupying their countries indefinitely, since not having the US military there might make things 'unstable.' The CIA calls it 'blowback.'



> There u go with your irrelevant crap again, but whats this u forgot to finish ur sentance?


 No, I was hoping you would figure out on your own that using the actions of .0000077 % of a population to generalize about the the other .9999933 % is beyond stupid.



> You really are a tool thinking ur smarter than everyone else.


 The evidence suggests I'm more informed than you; I wouldn't necessarily say smarter. As for everyone else, I don't like to generalize.


----------



## J Stokes (Jul 17, 2007)

jasvll said:


> No one's gone to jail, as I recall, and are you suggesting that there shouldn't be a fuss when you kill your own 'teammate?'
> 
> Besides, I was thinking more along the lines of overthrowing democratically elected leaders in foreign countries so you can secure better deals on oil without considering that the people of those countries might take offense. I was thinking more along the lines of telling South Korea, Japan, and Okinawa that you will be occupying their countries indefinitely, since not having the US military there might make things 'unstable.' The CIA calls it 'blowback.'
> 
> ...



Why do you have to make 100 million posts in one thread, and more than half of them have nothing to do with the thread at all??? Go post on another thread?:confused02:


----------



## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

SgtSixpack said:


> Exactly u didnt say it, thats my point u retard. STFU.


Nor did I say the opposite, so how is it hypocrisy?

Do you actually know what hypocrisy means?


----------



## SgtSixpack (Feb 13, 2007)

J Stokes said:


> Why do you have to make 100 million posts in one thread, and more than half of them have nothing to do with the thread at all??? Go post on another thread?:confused02:


Yep, I was trying to ignore this tool. My first post was almost identical to yours. He begins his "debate" but stating its a worthless thread, either that or quote himself from other threads on a similar topic.

Im pretty sure he's doing it just for the points cause he must know people dont want to hear what he has to say all the time, especially when he's just driveling on.


----------



## SgtSixpack (Feb 13, 2007)

XitUp said:


> Nor did I say the opposite, so how is it hypocrisy?
> 
> Do you actually know what hypocrisy means?


Keep rereading the posts that this is in regard to, if u cant work it out then ask someone with more intelligence to spell it out for you.


----------



## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

SgtSixpack said:


> Keep rereading the posts that this is in regard to, if u cant work it out then ask someone with more intelligence to spell it out for you.


Answer the question. Where exactly did I contradict myself?

If you can't answer the question at least have the balls to admit you were wrong.


----------



## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

J Stokes said:


> Why do you have to make 100 million posts in one thread, and more than half of them have nothing to do with the thread at all???


 Why do you have to start a thread that so many people find suitable for 'off-topic' discussion?





> Go post on another thread?:confused02:


 No? 



SgtSixpack said:


> Yep, I was trying to ignore this tool. My first post was almost identical to yours. He begins his "debate" but stating its a worthless thread, either that or quote himself from other threads on a similar topic.


 You were trying to ignore me? Interesting approach.



> Im pretty sure he's doing it just for the points cause he must know people dont want to hear what he has to say all the time, especially when he's just driveling on.


 There you go again convinced that you know what everyone else thinks. It's funny, I got another PM just today from someone telling me that they liked my posts and found them 'intelligent.' My rep keeps going up in spite of my drivel, too.  Of course, I wouldn't change my posts if all I got was neg rep and hateful PMs, but, you get the point...Oh, wait, I forgot who I was talking to.


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## IDL (Oct 19, 2006)

SgtSixpack said:


> I love the way when I said I would not watch a sport dominated by black people including MMA if that ever happened, then someone calls me an idiot. Then you say that black kids will not pick Chuck Liddell as a role model simply because he's not black. Can u see how hypocritical that is?


haha, that does look a bit hypocritical.

Assuming thet he is suggesting that black kids don't look up to Chuck Liddel because he is white (which it looks like he is)


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

When The **** Did I Say That Black Kids Shouldn't Look Up To Chuck Because He's White?


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## SgtSixpack (Feb 13, 2007)

The point is that u call me an idiot for posting 1 thing then when its almost completely the opposite way round, u let it pass; as if its ok (yes I know its a 3rd person who said it). I assume that u dont see any problem when its the other way round and on that assumption I call u a hypocryte. Get it?


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

No, I called you an idiot for saying that you wouldn't watch a sport that was done by mainly black people.

I also disagreed with people about black kids not looking up to white fighters as I said that I look up to fighters from other races.


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## SgtSixpack (Feb 13, 2007)

IDL said:


> haha, that does look a bit hypocritical.
> 
> Assuming thet he is suggesting that black kids don't look up to Chuck Liddel because he is white (which it looks like he is)


Actually its nothing to do with respect, I see it that black kids probably from conditioning from their parents are intrinsically racist but they dont see it that way. All they see is racism towards their own race, and consequently go around the rest of their lives with a chip on their shoulder thinking their hard done by. 

Someone suggested that Dana White should "fix" it so that their is a percentage of fighters from diffrent ethnic backgrounds to reflect the percentage of the population from different races. I say let all fighters be judged on merit.


----------



## SgtSixpack (Feb 13, 2007)

XitUp said:


> No, I called you an idiot for saying that you wouldn't watch a sport that was done by mainly black people.
> 
> I also disagreed with people about black kids not looking up to white fighters as I said that I look up to fighters from other races.


U called me an idiot but u DID NOT call the guy who wrote the other thing an idiot, and u are a hypocryt and an unwitting racist and an idiot, and u should STFU.


----------



## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

SgtSixpack said:


> All they see is racism towards their own race, and consequently go around the rest of their lives with a chip on their shoulder thinking their hard done by.


Strange, none of the black people I know are like this. 



SgtSixpack said:


> Someone suggested that Dana White should "fix" it so that their is a percentage of fighters from diffrent ethnic backgrounds to reflect the percentage of the population from different races. I say let all fighters be judged on merit.


I agree with this totally.



SgtSixpack said:


> U called me an idiot but u DID NOT call the guy who wrote the other thing an idiot, and u are a hypocryt and an unwitting racist and an idiot, and u should STFU.


What other thing? Quote what you mean and I'll tell you if he was an idiot or not.

And how am I an unwitting racist?


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

SgtSixpack said:


> Actually its nothing to do with respect, I see it that black kids probably from conditioning from their parents are intrinsically racist but they dont see it that way. All they see is racism towards their own race, and consequently go around the rest of their lives with a chip on their shoulder thinking their hard done by.


 What do you think the parents of white kids taught them?



> Someone suggested that Dana White should "fix" it so that their is a percentage of fighters from diffrent ethnic backgrounds to reflect the percentage of the population from different races. I say let all fighters be judged on merit.


 Did you see my joke about how it's always 'White's' fault?


----------



## SgtSixpack (Feb 13, 2007)

XitUp said:


> Strange, none of the black people I know are like this.
> 
> 
> I agree with this totally.
> ...


No Im not going into further detail just to up your post count, Ive already been over it and someone else quoted it; u are a ignorant fool. U think Im racist but its u who are racist.


Hello, time to go to bed now and rest your weak minds little kids.


----------



## wafb (May 8, 2007)

jasvll said:


> It's funny, I got another PM just today from someone telling me that they liked my posts and found them 'intelligent.' My rep keeps going up in spite of my drivel, too.  Of course, I wouldn't change my posts if all I got was neg rep and hateful PMs, but, you get the point...Oh, wait, I forgot who I was talking to.



I'm a jasvll nuthugger, I don't agree with him half the time but he always keeps the discussion interesting.raise01:


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

SgtSixpack said:


> No Im not going into further detail just to up your post count, Ive already been over it and someone else quoted it; u are a ignorant fool. U think Im racist but its u who are racist.
> 
> 
> Hello, time to go to bed now and rest your weak minds little kids.


I guess this is the debating equivalent of tapping out.

I hate it when people can't admit they're wrong and just leave the argument.


----------



## SgtSixpack (Feb 13, 2007)

XitUp said:


> I guess this is the debating equivalent of tapping out.
> 
> I hate it when people can't admit they're wrong and just leave the argument.


Its not a debate if u cannot address my points and pretend or otherwise not to understand, which at least this guy can understand what Im saying:



IDL said:


> haha, that does look a bit hypocritical.
> 
> Assuming thet he is suggesting that black kids don't look up to Chuck Liddel because he is white (which it looks like he is)


----------



## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

SgtSixpack said:


> Its not a debate if u cannot address my points and pretend or otherwise not to understand, which at least this guy can understand what Im saying:


I would address your points if you made them a bit clearer.

- Show me who you think I should have called an idiot.

- Show me why you think I'm a racist.

Is that too much to ask?


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

wafb said:


> I'm a jasvll nuthugger, I don't agree with him half the time but he always keeps the discussion interesting.raise01:


 Dude, quiet down, you're just encouraging him.


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## IDL (Oct 19, 2006)

SgtSixpack said:


> Actually its nothing to do with respect, I see it that black kids probably from conditioning from their parents are intrinsically racist but they dont see it that way. All they see is racism towards their own race, and consequently go around the rest of their lives with a chip on their shoulder thinking their hard done by.


I actually do believe, in general, that black kids are less likely to look up to Chuck Liddel because he is white.
It works for all races though. Part of human nature I think.
People naturally identify more with people of their own race weather or not it logically makes sense or not.
We all do it to some degree. 

This is the same human nature that would probably lower the interest of white viewers if the UFC was all black. There would still be interest, but white people wouldn't identify with the atheletes as much.

Again, I think this works for all races


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

So do white people not follow sports that are comprised of primarily black athletes?


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## IDL (Oct 19, 2006)

XitUp said:


> So do white people not follow sports that are comprised of primarily black athletes?


That's not what I said


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I dont think there are significant differences in racial background that influence such choices accurately.

seriously man.


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

IDL said:


> That's not what I said


True, I was more using you to have a go at the other guy who said he would stop watching if it become predominantly black.


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## PrideFan123 (Apr 8, 2007)

Jasvll enjoys arguing for the sole purpose of using his narcissistic smiley at the end of his posts. It fuels him.

(joking only, please no long debate jasvll)


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

PrideFan123 said:


> Jasvll enjoys arguing for the sole purpose of using his narcissistic smiley at the end of his posts. It fuels him.
> 
> (joking only, please no long debate jasvll)


 It's actually a condescending smiley...




Just kidding. 




Seriously, just kidding.


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## Boxing>MMA (Apr 20, 2007)

Haven't read the thread just the thread starter post. How could this get over a 100 posts for such a stupid thread.


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## J Stokes (Jul 17, 2007)

Wow, for all the people who have shown interest by posting on my thread, I sure do have a lot of negative reps...:dunno:


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

J Stokes said:


> Wow, for all the people who have shown interest by posting on my thread, I sure do have a lot of negative reps...:dunno:


 Ironically, I only have one. 



Boxing>MMA said:


> Haven't read the thread just the thread starter post. How could this get over a 100 posts for such a stupid thread.


 :dunno:


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## J Stokes (Jul 17, 2007)

MODS close the thread please. raise01:


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## OV Pimp (Jun 29, 2007)

J Stokes said:


> MODS close the thread please. raise01:


Dude, I don't think they're going to close a well discussed thread like this with over 100 posts just because your getting negative reps. Sorry, man. :dunno:


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

SgtSixpack said:


> I mean who knew anything about Muslims till they started blowing up the twin towers? Now they are top of the list for being the most disliked race.


1) Muslims are NOT a race.
2) Islam has a history of violence long before 911.

1972 Munich Olympics Sep-5,1972 (Black September)
1976 Entebbe Hostage Crisis, June 27, 1976
1979 Iran Hostage Crisis, Nov. 4, 1979 444 days
1979 Grand Mosque Seizure, Nov 20,1979
1981 Assassination of Egyptian President, Oct 6,1981
1981 Attempted Assassination of Pope John Paul the Second
1982 Assassination of Lebanese Prime Minister, Sept 14, 1982
1983 Bombing of US Embassy in Beirut, April 18,1983
1983 Bombing of Marine Barracks, Beirut, Oct 23,1983
1984 Hezbollah Restaurant Bombing, April 12,1984
1985 Egyptian Airliner Hijacking, Nov 23,1985
1985 Rome Airport murders
1985 TWA Flight 847 hijacked, U.S. Navy diver murdered
1985 Achille Lauro hijacking, Homicidal maniac lived in saddams Iraq
1986 Aircraft Bombing in Greece, March 30, 1986
1988 Pan Am 747 Flight 103 Bombing, Lockerbie, 100's murdered
1988 Berlin Discotheque Bombing, Dec 21,1988
1990 A Muslim Named El Sayyid Nosair Murders Israeli Political activist Meir Kahane. Nov 1990
1992 Bombing in Israeli Embassy in Argentina, March 17,1992
1993 Attempted Assassination of Pres. Bush Sr., April 14,1993
1993 First World Trade Center bombing, February 26th, 7 Killed, Hundreds injured, Billions
1994 Air France Hijacking, Dec 24,1994
1994 A Muslim Named Rashid Baz shoots at a van filled with Hasidic boys, on the Brooklyn bridge murdering one of them. FBI calls it "Road Rage". March 1, 1994
1995 Attack on US Diplomats in Pakistan, Mar 8,1995
1995 Saudi Military Installation Attack, Nov 13, 1995
1995 Kashmiri Hostage taking, July 4,1995
1996 Khobar Towers attack
1996 Sudanese Missionaries Kidnapping, Aug 17,1996
1996 Paris Subway Explosion, Dec 3,1996
1997 At Empire State Building; Ali Abu Kamal shoots at tourists, kills one and wounds six before killing himself, Mayor Giuliani informs the public "he had many enemies in his mind".Feb 24,1997
1997 Israeli Shopping Mall Bombing, Sept 4, 1997
1997 Yemeni Kidnappings, Oct 30,1997
1998 Somali Hostage taking crisis, April 15,1998
1998 U.S. Embassy Bombing in Peru, Jan 15, 1998
1998 U.S. Kenya Embassy blown up, 100's murdered
1998 U.S. Tanzania Embassy blown up, 100's murdered
1999 Egypt Air flight 990's co-pilot crashes plane killing all 217 people on board, officials post no link to terrorism, even though the co-pilot is heard on black box tape exclaiming "I rely on Allah" 11 times as he crashed the plane.- Oct 1999
1999 Plot to blow up Space Needle (thwarted)
2000 USS Cole attacked,17 U.S.Navy sailors were murdered and 39 others were injured- October
2000-2003 Intifada against Israel - 1000's dead and injured
2000 Manila Bombing, Dec 30,2000


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

While your list is more thorough, mine came from the heart. 

http://www.mmaforum.com/282327-post70.html


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## Machiavelli_08 (Jul 24, 2007)

I thought this forum was about MMA and not geopolitics and society?


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## SgtSixpack (Feb 13, 2007)

I heard of Muslins before the bombings, i.e. Muhammed Ali converted to one and Martin Luthor King was one; I just tried to emphasise that Muslins are now infamous along with, Jihad holy war, and 9 11. Point being is that they have now united just about any right minded country/person against them.


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## benny (May 28, 2007)

sauceon said:


> Unlike many people that have posted in here with irrelevant/racist comments, I would like to share my two cents about the question. I agree that having more role models that are black could be a factor in having young black kids striving to train and participate in the sport. However, it is not that clear cut and simple. As someone mentioned, there are factors such as socioeconomic statues, upbringing, networks and personality that need to be taken into consideration. I think it's very important that Dana white looks at the demographics of the country that he's serving and represent ethnic minorities in that light. Having one "token" black dude to play the hero for 5 minutes is not good enough for me. Furthermore, Dana is a businessman so it does not surprise me that he has first aired "white" fighters to appeal to a white audience that was represented heavily in southern states... Now that the sport is expanding it's time for Dana to step up and hire professionals from all ethnic groups... Lastly, I love how some of you can be so open with your racist beliefs behind a computer but in real life be silent:thumb02: Shows how much of a coward one can truly be:bye02:


sounds like another (****** holding us down) crap again
if you want to see a scripted champion play hero for his race go back to wathching WWE , otherwise STFU with that garbage


----------



## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

SgtSixpack said:


> I heard of Muslins before the bombings, i.e. Muhammed Ali converted to one and Martin Luthor King was one;


 Absolutely priceless. :thumb02: 



> I just tried to emphasise that Muslins are now infamous along with, Jihad holy war, and 9 11. Point being is that they have now united just about any right minded country/person against them.


 Even better. :thumb01: 


You have to be messing with us. This is just too funny to be unintentional.

Edit: The neg rep suggests that you aren't aware that Mr. King was not Muslim or that no right minded/country person would ever confuse the actions of a few individuals with an entire religion.

Oh, and I almost forgot, Clay joined the Nation of Islam, which is a product of African-Americans, and is not a part of or accepted by traditional Islam.


----------



## benny (May 28, 2007)

jasvll said:


> Absolutely priceless. :thumb02:
> 
> Even better. :thumb01:
> 
> ...


for somebody with no valid points to make you sure made a pointless post. ther is nothing to discuss no substance and no reason for posting it so....why?


----------



## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

benny said:


> for somebody with no valid points to make you sure made a pointless post. ther is nothing to discuss no substance and no reason for posting it so....why?


 The edit reveals what I mistakenly assumed was common knowledge about Martin Luther King and rational human beings. 

Also, if you believe I have no valid points to make, why would you be surprised that I made a pointless post? 

Oh, and dare I ask what the point of your post was?


----------



## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

jasvll said:


> While your list is more thorough, mine came from the heart.
> 
> http://www.mmaforum.com/282327-post70.html


Yes from the heart, the bleeding heart that sees the USA and Christianity as the reason for Islamic extremism, the lack of secular democracies in the Middle East and the reason the Mujahideen exist in Afghanistan.

While I admit you are educated, your lack of objectivity on this subject shows your true intellectual laziness.

I would rather not waste my time showing the one sidedness of your argument but if you insist.


----------



## benny (May 28, 2007)

jasvll said:


> The edit reveals what I mistakenly assumed was common knowledge about Martin Luther King and rational human beings.
> 
> Also, if you believe I have no valid points to make, why would you be surprised that I made a pointless post?
> 
> Oh, and dare I ask what the point of your post was?


years ago it was stated that boxing (and i am a fan) was a black dominated sport. i have heard that it costs more to get a white fighter into the ring.
mike tyson once stated that boxing was a way for poor black kids to rise through the social structure.
i believe that motivation is what determines a persons success.
long ago boxing champions were mainly irish and german.(i would bet them willing to fight for less than an englishmen in the same era) today the majority of the titles in boxings hw division are held by russians (russia just went through a depression ...make any sense?
the lighter weight classes are dominated by hisanics...surprise?
don king is the reason blacks flooded into boxing...he could exploit them.
dana white is the reason whites dominate the ufc...he can sell them
when wages go up motivation will make difference not race

whats your opinion jas?


----------



## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

benny said:


> whats your opinion jas?


 My opinion is that you've avoided a few very simple questions.

Also, a quick review of the thread will show that I've already shared my opinion on sports and socio-economics.


----------



## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

ESPADA9 said:


> Yes from the heart, the bleeding heart that sees the USA and Christianity as the reason for Islamic extremism, the lack of secular democracies in the Middle East and the reason the Mujahideen exist in Afghanistan.
> 
> While I admit you are educated, your lack of objectivity on this subject shows your true intellectual laziness.
> 
> I would rather not waste my time showing the one sidedness of your argument but if you insist.


 You're jumping to some awfully quick and precarious conclusions. 

Pointing out the Western world's role in the rise of Muslim extremism is not the same as justifying or condoning Muslim extremism.

Considering that there's no shortage of people denying the West's role in shaping and influencing the Muslim world for the past 100 years, with the US only exacerbating the mistakes of the British, I honestly can't see why anyone would complain when someone reminds us of a few simple facts.

Finally, how can you possibly call my argument one-sided and me unobjective, in light of yours?


----------



## benny (May 28, 2007)

jasvll said:


> My opinion is that you've avoided a few very simple questions.
> 
> Also, a quick review of the thread will show that I've already shared my opinion on sports and socio-economics.


the point of my post was to call you out.
the purpouse was to trigger debate....simple?

i have seen many of your posts on this site and most of the time your replies seem intellectual but without real substance
you are one of those fence sitters afraid to pick a side and stay on it. you like to use colledge freshman wit to insult people but very seldom state your own [email protected]#$%.
i think you smarter than that.

next time you - rep me leave your name!!! you wanna debate on the subject lets have it...but enough of the sarcasm


----------



## mike123 (May 25, 2007)

I wouldn't say my gym is inner city, but it is in the city (boston) and over 90% of the people there are black.


----------



## SgtSixpack (Feb 13, 2007)

jasvll said:


> Absolutely priceless. :thumb02:
> 
> Even better. :thumb01:
> 
> ...


martin luther king muslim - Google Search
If MLK was not a practicing muslim explain why I get Results 1 - 10 of about 1,920,000 for martin luther king muslim. (0.23 seconds)
1.9million results in google for it?

Anyway I dont care about MLK, Im not black and Im not American, if u learned about him in elementary school good for you.

Now tell me the date of the Battle Of Hastings. Tell me which Monastary the Carmelites lived in, incidentally the monastary is in my town.

Tell me why u want to try to be smart on an MMA forum? If you have such a great magnitude of intellect what are u doing posting here? Try the "I think Im a flipping Mastermind forum and Im an annoying t%@t" forum.

As for Muhammid Ali
"Soon after becoming heavyweight champion, Ali decided to change his religion and joined the Nation of Islam (Black Muslims), taking the Muslim name "Muhammad Ali." "
Muhammad Ali

Whats so funny about that? Hes a converted Muslim.


----------



## SgtSixpack (Feb 13, 2007)

benny said:


> for somebody with no valid points to make you sure made a pointless post. ther is nothing to discuss no substance and no reason for posting it so....why?


Repped man!!


----------



## SgtSixpack (Feb 13, 2007)

jasvll said:


> Oh, and dare I ask what the point of your post was?


He's telling u that he also has got tired of your worthless trolling posts.

U thread crapped in one of my threads ur a jerk man. Seriouly u should take some time out from training to be the worlds biggest asswipe.


----------



## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

benny said:


> the point of my post was to call you out.
> the purpouse was to trigger debate....simple?


 Yes, painfully simple.



> i have seen many of your posts on this site and most of the time your replies seem intellectual but without real substance
> you are one of those fence sitters afraid to pick a side and stay on it.


 My opinion is that your claim is not as accurate as you wish it was.


> you like to use colledge freshman wit to insult people but very seldom state your own [email protected]#$%.


 Please point out one place where I've insulted anyone on this thread.



> i think you smarter than that.


 I think I smarter than that, too. (Feel free to count that as the insult if it makes you feel better )



> next time you - rep me leave your name!!! you wanna debate on the subject lets have it...but enough of the sarcasm


 If I had neg repped you, I assure you, I would have left my name. PM a mod if you want to find out who actually neg repped you.


----------



## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

jasvll said:


> You're jumping to some awfully quick and precarious conclusions.
> 
> Pointing out the Western world's role in the rise of Muslim extremism is not the same as justifying or condoning Muslim extremism.
> 
> ...


“There’s no shortage of people denying the West's role in shaping and influencing the Muslim world for the past 100 years” Interesting, appeal to popularity fallacy though it may be. Plenty of people believe in UFOs, Bush=Hitler, Elvis is still alive; we never landed on the moon, etc. And ideas popularity doesn’t make it true.

Sure the “West” has influenced the Middle East and often for the worse but I would give the British most of the credit for that. Funny how no one who actually LIVES in the Middle East is taking responsibility. Seems like a double standard to me, we take ALL the responsibility for what happens here in the USA AND all responsibility for the rest of the worlds problems.

Islam is a religion that has NEVER been reformed (like Christianity and Judaism) blaming the West is just a cop out. Care to explain this???

History of Islamic Aggression:

The Muslim conquest. In 624, Mohammed led a raid
for booty and plunder against a Meccan caravan,
killing 70 Meccans for mere material gain. Between
630 A.D. and the death of Mohammed in 632 A.D.,
Muslims -- on at least one occasion led by
Mohammed -- had conquered the bulk of western
Arabia and southern Palestine through
approximately a dozen separate invasions and
bloody conquests. These conquests were in large
part "Holy wars," putting the lie to
another statement in the U.S. News article that
proclaimed the Crusades "The First Holy
War," as if the Christians had invented the
concept of a holy war. After Mohammed's death in
632, the new Muslim caliph, Abu Bakr, launched
Islam into almost 1,500 years of continual
imperialist, colonialist, bloody conquest and
subjugation of others through invasion and war, a
role Islam continues to this very day. 

Wahhabism . . . started as a movement within Islam
founded by Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab (1703-1792)
who grew up studying Hanbali Law, one of Sunni
Islam’s strictest and most conservative
schools. 

In 1744 al-Wahhab settled in Ad-Dir'iyah, which
was under the control of a powerful tribal leader
named Ibn Sa'ud. Ibn Sa’ud became a believer
of Wahhab’s doctrines and the two formed a
strong alliance. Al-Wahhab and Ibn Sa’ud
swore a Muslim pledge with each other in which
they vowed to establish a new state that would
operate under al-Wahhab’s strict
interpretation of Islamic Law. 

Thus began a new linkage of Islam to militancy.
The Wahhabi faith provided Ibn Sa’ud with the
justification he needed to raid and conquer nearby
settlements. Though these settlements were Islamic
(and traditional Islamic law prohibits Islamic
states from attacking each other), the Wahhabi
doctrine viewed all non-Wahhabists as infidels and
not true Muslims. It was thus that Ibn Sa'ud
found a legitimate purpose to bring the nearby
settlements under his control, to spread
”true Islam” to the infidels. 

History of Jihad against the Arabs (622-634 C.E. 1-12 A.H.)

Haj Amin al-Husseini, who in many ways was as big
a Nazi villain as Hitler, and to understand his
influence on the Middle East is to understand the
ongoing genocidal program against the Jews of
Israel. Al-Husseini was a bridge figure in terms
of transporting the Nazi genocide in Europe into
the post-war Middle East. 

As the leader of Arab Palestine during the British
Mandate period, al-Husseini introduced violence
against moderate Arabs as well as against Jews.
Al-Husseini met with Adolf Eichmann in Palestine
in 1937 and subsequently went on the Nazi payroll
as a Nazi agent.

Al-Husseini played a pivotal behind-the-scenes
role in instigating a pro-Nazi coup in Iraq in
1941, in urging Nazi’s and pro-Nazi
governments in Europe to transport Jews to death
camps, in training pro-Nazi Bosnian brigades, and
in funneling Nazi loot into post-war Arab
countries.


----------



## benny (May 28, 2007)

jasvll said:


> Yes, painfully simple.
> 
> My opinion is that your claim is not as accurate as you wish it was.
> Please point out one place where I've insulted anyone on this thread.
> ...


yeah your a funny guy i get it!!!!! now STFU or post something about the issue


----------



## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

SgtSixpack said:


> martin luther king muslim - Google Search
> If MLK was not a practicing muslim explain why I get Results 1 - 10 of about 1,920,000 for martin luther king muslim. (0.23 seconds)
> 1.9million results in google for it?


 Chance are it's because Malcom X was a practicing member of the Nation of Islam, and both rose to prominence in the civil rights movement espousing different approaches to empowerment for blacks. 



> Anyway I dont care about MLK, Im not black and Im not American, if u learned about him in elementary school good for you.


 You brought him up.



> Now tell me the date of the Battle Of Hastings. Tell me which Monastary the Carmelites lived in, incidentally the monastary is in my town.


 The Battle of Hastings was around 1000AD, as I recall, but I'm not familiar with the Carmelites. I never claimed to know anything about either of those things. I also didn't bring them up. They also have nothing to do with Muslims.



> Tell me why u want to try to be smart on an MMA forum?


 Because it makes more sense than trying to be dumb on an MMA forum?



> If you have such a great magnitude of intellect what are u doing posting here? Try the "I think Im a flipping Mastermind forum and Im an annoying t%@t" forum.


 I'll definitely check that out. Got a link?



> As for Muhammid Ali
> "Soon after becoming heavyweight champion, Ali decided to change his religion and joined the Nation of Islam (Black Muslims), taking the Muslim name "Muhammad Ali." "
> Muhammad Ali
> 
> Whats so funny about that? Hes a converted Muslim.


 It's funny because the 'Nation of Islam' was founded in Detroit, Michigan, in the '30s. It has absolutely nothing to do with traditional Islam, other than borrowing their holy book.


----------



## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

benny said:


> yeah your a funny guy i get it!!!!! now STFU or post something about the issue


 You called me out, remember? :dunno:


----------



## Robopencil (Feb 7, 2007)

SATAN said:


> *Thats what im saying I love to fight guy's like Alexander in the street win or lose I love to get down I hate thos type of *i*g*r*.*


Wow...


----------



## Robopencil (Feb 7, 2007)

SATAN said:


> *Dude cmon thats fake, its hard to find a black person who doesnt have a criminal record.*


Please ban this guy.


----------



## benny (May 28, 2007)

jasvll said:


> You called me out, remember? :dunno:


social issues AND politics are the reason the ufc is mainly white. tuf was a way for dana to find people who could 1.put on entertaining fights 2. they had faces he could sell 3. they didnt cost much
to say black people dont have as much opportunity to get into mma is true in a way... but also bs.
many potientially good fighters lost chances because of politics ......


----------



## SgtSixpack (Feb 13, 2007)

jasvll said:


> Chance are it's because Malcom X was a practicing member of the Nation of Islam, and both rose to prominence in the civil rights movement espousing different approaches to empowerment for blacks.
> 
> You brought him up.
> 
> ...


Muslims do not follow a "book" they are guided by the Coran. 

I agree Camelites have nothing to do with this thread but then again nor does Muslims.

The Battle of Hastings was fought in 1066. I CANNOT believe u didnt google that one. I knew that when I was like 5 years old.


----------



## Scarface71906 (Jul 27, 2007)

*Wow. Guys, the thread is called "African-Americans in the UFC." It has nothing to do with Muslims and/or the Coran, 9/11, politics, or Martin Luther King Jr. 

Black people/African-Americans only make up somewhere around 15% of the U.S. population, which is normally why you see more white/caucasian in any sport, however, their are those few that do have more black than white athletes. We won't ever see the day where African-Americans dominate every sport, because they won't ever dominate the White/caucasian population here in the U.S.*


----------



## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

ESPADA9 said:


> Interesting, appeal to popularity fallacy though it may be. Plenty of people believe in UFOs, Bush=Hitler, Elvis is still alive; we never landed on the moon, etc. And ideas popularity doesn’t make it true.


 So you're saying the West had no role in shaping or influencing the Muslim world? Otherwise, I don't see your point.



> Sure the “West” has influenced the Middle East and often for the worse but I would give the British most of the credit for that. Funny how no one who actually LIVES in the Middle East is taking responsibility.


 How do you know that's the case? Iran, for example, has a strong populist movement among its young people that is in direct opposition to the belligerence of their current President's rhetoric. They're using the internet to communicate a message of peace, in spite of their government's repeated attempts at censorship.



> Seems like a double standard to me, we take ALL the responsibility for what happens here in the USA AND all responsibility for the rest of the worlds problems.


 Whose idea was that? As I recall, it was Taft's, followed by Mckinley, Monroe. Oh, and we can't forget Wilson's 14 points, can we? Then there's that whole Cold War where the Reds and the US had a contest to see how many sovereign nations they could fight in. Oh, and Joe McCarthy was a swell guy.



> Islam is a religion that has NEVER been reformed (like Christianity and Judaism) blaming the West is just a cop out.


 And absolving the West is a lie.
Even you admit the West has had a role in the Muslim world:


you said:


> Sure the “West” has influenced the Middle East and often for the worse but I would give the British most of the credit for that.





> Care to explain this???


 Well, the simple answer is that theocracies are no different than democracies, which are no different than autocracies, etc. when it comes to gain through military force. 

Would you care to explain America's own history of imperialism and misdeeds? 

What happened to the Native Americans? Who built the railroads? Who picked the cotton and tobacco? How did Hawaii become a state? The Boxer Rebellion? The Spanish-American War? Whose idea was the Panama Canal? Why do we still have troops in Okinawa and Japan? How long do we expect Okinawan school teacher to stop their lessons a dozen times a day so US planes and helicopters can take off and land? Why do South Koreans constantly talk of unification with North Korea and the removal of US troops in spite of persecution by the South Korean government? Iran Contra as well as our heavy hand in all of Latin America? 


Today, why are American troops in 135 out of the 192 countries in the world? Today, why does the military-industrial complex represent more than 25% of the American economy? 

Just how much damage is JCET going to do before all is said and done?

Why does the US represent 45% of all arms sales (the second largest country is Russia, at 15%)?

Why are we surprised that some Muslims react strongly to the fact that Israel is near the top of the arms sales list?

Why are we surprised that Osama Bin Laden reacts strongly to the fact that Saudi Arabia is also near the top of that list?

Why shouldn't the rest of the world label the US as hypocritical, when our arms sales don't discriminate between democratic and non-democratic countries, human rights violating and non human rights violating countries, or whether or not Pakistan intends to use its purchased weapons, aircraft, and vehicles on India or not?

While there's more, I'll stop with this. What about our funding of Osama Bin Laden and the Mujahadeen when the CIA used them to intentionally draw the Soviet Union into their Vietnam and eventual economic collapse? 

Here's what the mastermind of that little operation had to say about it in 1998 in an interview with _Le Nouvel Observateur_:


> Q: *When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them*. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?
> 
> B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.
> 
> ...


CRG -- The CIA's Intervention in Afghanistan

Looks like we get to reap what he and others have sown. I wonder if he regrets the US installing the Taliban or those stirred up Muslims today?

I am not anti-American in the least, but I am 100% against America's foreign policy and most of what our domestic policy has become. We have President's who scoff at the law, Vice Presidents who lie about what branch of government their in depending on what he wants to avoid being honest about. 

We have attorney generals who 'can't recall' what they had for breakfast because they're not even aware that it was perfectly legal to fire every one of those attorneys. 

We have a Congress who can do no more than point at the misdeeds of the executive branch while giving themselves another raise, molesting a page, speaking out against gay marriage while visiting a gay prostitute, or stuffing bribes in their freezer. 

We have a Supreme Court that can alter the course of the entire country with a single decision, and no one's bothered to question that that power is nowhere to be found in the Constitution.

The people are more interested in how many days Paris Hilton spent in jail or what country Angelina Jolie stole a baby from to notice that their government has been stolen from them and the media is more than willing to keep them distracted if it will keep ratings up.

Come election time, the 55% of registered voters that notice will vote their religion, be it scary terrorists and Armegeddon or scary global warming and the end of the world. Few, if any, will notice that the candidate's passion for the job ends with their campaign.

Again, I'm not anti-American; everyone else is. Except Ron Paul.


----------



## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

SgtSixpack said:


> Muslims do not follow a "book" they are guided by the Coran.


 Last time I checked, the Koran was a book.



> I agree Camelites have nothing to do with this thread but then again nor does Muslims.


 I didn't say Camelites had nothing to do with the thread. I said they had nothing to do with our discussion.



> The Battle of Hastings was fought in 1066. I CANNOT believe u didnt google that one.


 I'm not dishonest.



> I knew that when I was like 5 years old.


 I'm sure someone taught it to you when you were 5 years old. Have you thanked them for your education?




benny said:


> social issues AND politics are the reason the ufc is mainly white. tuf was a way for dana to find people who could 1.put on entertaining fights 2. they had faces he could sell 3. they didnt cost much
> to say black people dont have as much opportunity to get into mma is true in a way... but also bs.
> many potientially good fighters lost chances because of politics ......


 Did you know that the oil used by jewelers to lubricate clocks and watches costs about $3,000 a gallon?


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

ESPADA9 said:


> “There’s no shortage of people denying the West's role in shaping and influencing the Muslim world for the past 100 years” Interesting, appeal to popularity fallacy though it may be. Plenty of people believe in UFOs, Bush=Hitler, Elvis is still alive; we never landed on the moon, etc. And ideas popularity doesn’t make it true.
> 
> Sure the “West” has influenced the Middle East and often for the worse but I would give the British most of the credit for that. Funny how no one who actually LIVES in the Middle East is taking responsibility. Seems like a double standard to me, we take ALL the responsibility for what happens here in the USA AND all responsibility for the rest of the worlds problems.
> 
> ...


I agree. I'm tired of bleeding hearts trying to point out how terrorists and fanatics are a minority in Islam, which is otherwise a peaceful and enlightened religion. Yeah, a peaceful and enlightened religion established by a guy with 11 wives, one of which was 6 years old, whom he boned when she was 9. The story goes he saw her playing on a swing, and decided he "wanted" her. We have a word for people like that nowadays. Then he converted people by sword, beheading all captors that refused to convert. 

The Truth About Islam

Not to mention the religion itself allows for polygamy, in which jehad (war) is a noble thing, the smallest crime can be punished with death (shariat law), women are worse than property and their word is not admissable in any forum or court of law (also shariat law). 

As for all the peace loving muslims who supposedly distance themselves from militant Islam.. Bull$hit. I was in London last month where they had yet another series of attempted suicide bomb attacks. And the local muslim community was quick to "condemn" the attacks and provide the usual lip service. But it came out that jehadi organizations had recruited more than 20 youths and millions of pounds in donations from muslims IN AND AROUND LONDON in the last year alone. Moderate indeed. Not to mention a local Imam (muslim priest) in Bradford or someplace in Britain with tens of thousands of followers PUBLICLY threatening to blow up the local city hall after the Afghan campaign, in a "sermon". Islam as a religion embraces hate, violence and revenge as legitimate ways to solve problems, and that bottom line is what armchair intellectuals like Jasvll with no real contact with reality but what their "New Yorker" tells them, will never see.


----------



## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

This thread is so full of fail.

Muslims don't have a book, they follow the 'Coran'?!?!? LoL. This guy has to be a troll right? No one is that stupid.


----------



## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> As for all the peace loving muslims who supposedly distance themselves from militant Islam.. Bull$hit. I was in London last month where they had yet another series of attempted suicide bomb attacks. And the local muslim community was quick to "condemn" the attacks and provide the usual lip service. But it came out that jehadi organizations had recruited more than 20 youths and millions of pounds in donations from muslims IN AND AROUND LONDON in the last year alone. Moderate indeed.


Wow, 20 out of the 1.5 + million british muslims. 
Pretty much all the muslims I know find terrorism abhorrent.


----------



## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> Islam as a religion embraces hate, violence and revenge as legitimate ways to solve problems, and that bottom line is what armchair intellectuals like Jasvll with no real contact with reality but what their "New Yorker" tells them, will never see.


As do all religions.


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

XitUp said:


> As do all religions.


Last I heard Christianity condemned hate or "Wrath" as one of the seven deadly sins. And Jesus, whether or not he existed or as a character in story, never lifted a hand on anyone, even those who tortured him. As did his disciples. 
People who point out violence in Christianity always use the Crusades or Catholic/Protestant wars as an example. Guess what:
a) nothing within the bible (at least the new testament) justifies or encourages something like that, unlike the Quran/Koran. That is just people doing what people do, hate and war, and using religion as a cover. 
b) That was at least 5 fcking hundred years ago. Islam is NOW. 

Oh, and Buddhism abhors violence, not only against man but even animals. As does Hinduism, Confucianism and Judaism, so I don't know what religions you're talking about.


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

XitUp said:


> Wow, 20 out of the 1.5 + million british muslims.
> Pretty much all the muslims I know find terrorism abhorrent.


twenty recruits. Read the other part.. millions of pounds, translating to hundreds of thousands of muslim households supporting their precious holy wars, which will get them to their virgin laden heaven (yes, the Koran promises sex with a hundred virgins in heaven for these "Martyrs" of jehad. Wonderful). These were tons of small collections from poor neighborhoods, not a single donation from a millionare. They did a sting or something on TV where they showed regular muslims dropping change for $hit like that, like people here would give to charity.


----------



## SgtSixpack (Feb 13, 2007)

XitUp said:


> As do all religions.


Ive never heard a Christian using quotes from the bible to justify violence, I cant say the same about the Koran however. Ive seen the Koran being used to allow hostility against Jews but Christians are held in higher regards. However some Muslim scholars can justify killing other Muslims in the name of defending the Muslim faith, i.e. justify taking out Muslims in suicide bombing directed any target other than Muslims.

If u think all religions preach hate you have obviously never been a part of any religion whatsoever, which is sad for both u and anyone u come into contact with.


----------



## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> Oh, and Buddhism abhors violence, not only against man but even animals. As does Hinduism, Confucianism and Judaism, so I don't know what religions you're talking about.


*Christian Terrorist Groups:*
- Army Of God
- God's Army
- Nagaland Rebels
- Phineas Priesthood 
- National Democratic Front of Bodoland

*Jewish Terrorist Groups:*
- Gush Emunim Underground
- Jewish Defense League
- Kach
- Kahane Chai 

There are also several Hindu terrorist groups in India.

Don't get me wrong, I hate Islamic terrorists, I'm just not stupid enough to think they are the only cunts who use God as an excuse to commit evil.



SgtSixpack said:


> If u think all religions preach hate you have obviously never been a part of any religion whatsoever, which is sad for both u and anyone u come into contact with.


Why is it sad that I'm not religious? I can live my life fine without believing in magic.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

XitUp said:


> *Christian Terrorist Groups:*
> - Army Of God
> - God's Army
> - Nagaland Rebels
> ...


- Nagaland Rebels
- National Democratic Front of Bodoland
Both of these are not really Christian orgs. They are mainly separatist groups in the north-east of India with a christian recruitment base, but they don't really use christianity except as part of their future "state religion".

Besides, care to post the total casualties caused by all the groups you mentioned. Now compare that to the casualties of militant Islam, including other muslims. That's what I thought. Also, you never addressed my main point of difference.. these groups may try to use the religions as a justification for violence, but there's nothing inherent within the teachings of those religions that actually condones it. But the Koran provides DIRECT and EXPLICIT instructions to wage holy war on non-believers. THAT is the difference.


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> - Nagaland Rebels
> - National Democratic Front of Bodoland
> Both of these are not really Christian orgs. They are mainly separatist groups in the north-east of India with a christian recruitment base, but they don't really use christianity except as part of their future "state religion".


I'm sure most Muslims would say that al Qaeda are not a true islamic group.
Infact there is a passage in the Koran that states that anyone going into battle intending to die will not be martyred, so suicide bombers are going against their religion.



Liddellianenko said:


> Besides, care to post the total casualties caused by all the groups you mentioned. Now compare that to the casualties of militant Islam, including other muslims. That's what I thought.


Sorry, I didn't know we had to quantify hate.
I'm sure if we added up all the people killed in the name of the christian god it would be more than have been killed in the name of Allah, even if you did have a 400 year head start


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

> I'm sure if we added up all the people killed in the name of the christian god it would be more than have been killed in the name of Allah, even if you did have a 400 year head start


I doubt it. You made an airheaded statement without looking at any historical facts. The only major wars based on Christianity have been the Crusades and the 100 years war (Catholic/Protestant). Islam has been at continuous war since the day it was founded.

Anyway, This is pointless. I have my opinions, you have yours we're not changing either's. Bottom line, no religion except Islam explicitly condones violence, even if an exponentially smaller number of people in those religions compared to Islam try to use them that way. Check back in 10 years and see what a positive impact your enlightened religion has had on the world. I'm done trying to convince your bleeding heart with facts, and I'd like to go discuss MMA elsewhere.


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> This is pointless, I have my opinions, you have yours.


Wow, that's two people who have wussed out from arguing with me.



Liddellianenko said:


> Check back in 10 years and see what a positive impact your enlightened religion has had on the world.


Not my religion.



Liddellianenko said:


> I'm done trying to convince your bleeding heart with facts, and I'd like to go discuss MMA elsewhere.


What facts? That some muslims are terrorists? Shit, really, I didn't know that, thanks for the insight, you must be pretty high up in the CIA or something.

Like I said, all religions have terrorist groups, always have, sadly always will. It's just that Islamic ones are the most active right now.


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## SgtSixpack (Feb 13, 2007)

XitUp said:


> Wow, that's two people who have wussed out from arguing with me.


I think this is why, from Muphy's Law not is the bible but as Good as in Ireland:
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. 

And its counterpart:
Never argue with an idiot. People might not know the difference.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

SgtSixpack said:


> I think this is why, from Muphy's Law not is the bible but as Good as in Ireland:
> Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
> 
> And its counterpart:
> Never argue with an idiot. People might not know the difference.


lol


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

SgtSixpack said:


> I think this is why, from Muphy's Law not is the bible but as Good as in Ireland.


Grammar ftw.

You've still not given me examples of why you think I'm a racist.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

XitUp said:


> Wow, that's two people who have wussed out from arguing with me.
> 
> 
> Not my religion.
> ...


I know it's not your religion, I meant "your" as in the religion you're championing. You're clearly an Atheist with a superiority complex, and in your head you're arguing with the irrationals here. In other words you're a pompous idiot, which you prove with your "wussing out" statement. I'm not wussing out, I happen to have a life, and spending the day arguing with a liberal puss is not on the list.


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> I know it's not your religion, you're clearly an Atheist with a superiority complex, and in your head you're arguing with the irrationals here.


Nope, not at all, some of the greatest minds in history have beleived in some form of religion. I may not agree with it but I would never look down on someone for being a believer.



Liddellianenko said:


> In other words you're a pompous idiot, which you prove with your "wussing out" statement. I'm not wussing out, I happen to have a life, and spending the day arguing with a liberal puss is not on the list.


You had plenty of time till I started pwning you. Strange that.
I too have a life, but I can check back here later, after you've finished whatever you have to do today and I'll see if you have time to post a decent argument, rather than resorting to ad hominem attacks.


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## SATAN (Jun 27, 2007)

Robopencil said:


> Please ban this guy.


*I guess your one of them.*:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## J Stokes (Jul 17, 2007)

This thread is pointless anymore...it started out about Black/ African-American descent in the UFC and now it's all about 9-11, Muslims, and Martin Luther King! WTF?


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## Danificent (Apr 12, 2007)

Forget Black people, need more chinese people in UFC.


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## sauceon (Oct 16, 2006)

sounds like another (****** holding us down) crap again
if you want to see a scripted champion play hero for his race go back to wathching WWE , otherwise STFU with that garbage

Benny, I'm not going to resort like a little child and go back and forth on the internet with name calling and acting tough. I really want to debate you and see ONE valid and credible ppoint you may have. I challenge you to quote one part of my reply and describe how it is "white man holding us down bs". It doesnt sound to informative to try and discredit someones point by making it personal. Makes me believe you're looking for attention.. Same goes to that jveril dude,


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

sauceon said:


> It doesnt sound to informative to try and discredit someones point by making it personal. Makes me believe you're looking for attention.. Same goes to that jveril dude,


 Assuming you're referring to me, how have I tried to make anything personal with anyone on this thread?


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## J Stokes (Jul 17, 2007)

Neg reps are pointless people, stop making my Latest Reputation Recived Box look like its Christmas time. All the red and green...


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## brownpimp88 (Jun 22, 2006)

Seeing as how I am to lazy to read through this thread you guys are lucky, and no offenders will be wanred. I have recieved some complaints, and I will close this thread at the request of the OP.


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