# Is The Opinion Of Fedor Changing?



## smithy1983 (Feb 14, 2009)

I havent been on the forum long (6 months max), but when i joined the general feeling i got was that Fedor was almost invincible.

Since the Rodgers v Arvlovski fight ive started to see a few threads where it seems to me like they doubt Fedor might struggle against top heavy weights as he had only fought the old guard so to speak (AA, Big Tim, Crop Cop)

Strange how it has changed but i might be wrong.

So you think the longer Fedor avoids the UFC the more people with doubt him.

Dont jump on me if you think this is a BS thread but im just curious to see what people think.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Fedor's rep for the greatest in the world hasn't changed.

Going to the UFC isn't going to help much, in fact, he's fighting the #2-3 guy at HW in Barnett next.


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## smithy1983 (Feb 14, 2009)

I seem to think people are starting to think he may struggle. I may be wrong. Do you think a fight between him and randy couture would be a good fight? Seems that has died donw since Brock beat Randy.


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## awf (Jan 2, 2007)

when he beat crocop, crocop was the shit. Because of crocops poor performances lately does not take anything away from that victory. In fact crocop went on a rampage i 2006 after that loss.

Also timmy has not been the same after fedor took his soul. Same goes for Andrei. You start having doubt after a KO like that.

Fedor is still, without a doubt, the best there is and ever was.


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

It doesn't mean anything, and I'm not sure I'd say Fedor is avoiding the UFC, you could just as easily say they are avoiding him. He has said over and over he'll fight in the UFC, if they let him do his *****. The UFC won't agree, and he won't give it up, so he's never going to fight there.

The fact Sylvia and AA have looked like crap since they lost to Fedor doesn't mean much, as long as Fedor keeps destroying top heavyweights, like Barnett, he is the undisputed #1.

After he beats Barnett, his next fight could be a problem, since there won't really be any top heavyweights outside the UFC he hasn't mauled.


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## UFC on VHS (Dec 16, 2008)

I think if we are ever going to see a ***** in Fedor's armour it will be Aug 1st. If Fedor Destroys Barnett like the others then I think it just makes his legacy even more concrete.

There are alot of questions though after his last 2 fights. AA and Tim Sylvia are jokes now.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Andrei was on a pretty good streak against pretty decent fighters until fedor took his lunch money. He has beaten some other quality fighters in crocop, nog, sylvia, and herring. I think people are starting to question the talent of some of the other guys he has beaten, but i would still consider him to be the number one heavyweight in the world until someone proves otherwise.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

UFCFAN18 said:


> There are alot of questions though after his last 2 fights. AA and Tim Sylvia are jokes now.


Why? I don't understand this point of view. He demolished two fighters that at one point were both in the top 10 and now people have questions about Fedor? Because he's running out of opponents, people have questions? Questions about what?


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## looney liam (Jun 22, 2007)

the fedor debate is the same as it always has been. one side claims he's an mma god, as close to unbeatable as you can get. the other side discredit his victories, claiming they're cans, or past their prime etc. that in actual fact he is beatable, and he'll even lose his next fight. i used to be on the other side, but after he beat tim you can't really dispute his greatness. 

sure he is human and anyone can lose on any given day, but i actually hope it doesn't happen. MMA needs a true undisputable fighter, that people can be compared too years down the line. boxing has muhammad ali, Rocky Marciano, mike tyson etc. MMA has Fedor Emelianenko!


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

People have been questioning Fedor for years. You're relatively new, so you didn't have to deal with the influx of anti-Fedor threads when he was inactive after Pride. It's really nothing new.

Anyway, I listen to people who think Fedor should go to the UFC all the time, and, frankly, it's not in Fedor's best interest. If he wants good competition, why would he go to the UFC?

Who's he going to fight there?

Frank Mir?

Brock Lesnar?

He's got Josh Barnett at Affliction in August. After that he can look to take on the winner of Rogers vs. Overeem, who certainly deserves to be at least as credible as the winner of Mir vs. Lesnar (though, because it's the UFC, that won't happen). Both Rogers and Overeem are better strikers and, frankly, I'm not convinced that Mir could handle either Rogers or Overeem, as he'd certainly have trouble standing up with either of them and might have a tough time getting two massive heavyweights to the mat.

That aside, Fedor's most competitive matchups are against external opponents. If the UFC brings him in, that's great.

Maybe he can debut against Randy Couture, and when he puts Randy's head on a pike (and he will, because Randy can't handle his striking or his submission skills), he can take the winner of Lesnar vs. Mir. Still, those matchups are going to be incredibly lopsided.

If Fedor's going to be challenged, it's going to be by someone who has a decisive advantage somewhere in the technical game.

Brock Lesnar does not. Sure, Brock's bigger, but his striking is terrible and his technical groundskills are still light years behind Fedor. Even if Brock uses his wrestling to try and take Fedor down (and, keep in mind, the last guy who tried that was another NCAA champion who looked like he was trying out for the middle school wrestling team), he's not going to be able to hurt Fedor. He's got big, heavy hands, but Fedor's already beaten way more elusive, way more technical strikers, and he's fought guys who have more power than Brock (though, perhaps, not the same level of athleticism).

Frank Mir does not. He's got a jiu-jitsu blackbelt, and while he may have the best jitz of anyone Fedor's ever fought, after what Fedor did in the first round of the second Coleman fight, there's no way I see Mir getting him to the mat.

If Fedor beats Barnett, he'll continue to be the #1 fighter in the world. If Mir loses to Lesnar at UFC 100, then Barnett will be the clear #2 heavyweight in the world in many minds, especially if Lesnar continues to display no technical game. For Fedor to beat the #2 heavyweight in the world means a lot, and he'll continue to fight guys who are decidedly top ten (as Overeem and Rogers absolutely are).


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

Me thinks Fedor would crush Grim


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Samborules said:


> Me thinks Fedor would crush Grim


Sure. And he'd crush Overeem and he'd crush Mir and he'd crush Lesnar and so on.

He's the best heavyweight in the world. We think he'd crush everybody.

The first guy that beats him is going to be an underdog, that's for damn sure. Still, Brett has a chance, if he can land the punch.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

Puncher's chance, sure but I would think Fedor, who is the best ***** specialist in the world would take him down?


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Samborules said:


> Puncher's chance, sure but I would think Fedor, who is the best ***** specialist in the world would take him down?


Sure. The gameplan against Brett is pretty clear cut. That said, it's not easy to get a guy that big to the ground. I think Fedor would, but this is MMA. Anything can happen.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

Agreed, 100%


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## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

I really doubt that Rodgers coming out like he did against Arlovski is going to be in hit best interest. I don't even know why you're talking about that matchup as it seems like a garbage fight to begin with. 
Overeem likes to hit but hates to get hit. He would pose more of a threat to Fedor than Brett for sure but I still see Fedor making him very uncomfortable and getting a good finish on him.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

How can you possibly put overreem and rogers above mir or lesnar? Who has overreem beaten? Rogers has some kind of argurement to be in the top ten because he beat arlovski, but overreem hasnt done anything. He was a mid level lhw and has only one decent win at hw against paul buentello. Lesnar has beaten herring and couture, mir has wins over nog, sylvia, hardonk, and lesnar. Overreem is way overrated by folks on this board.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

Overeem is a veteran, that is for sure, other than that not sure how good he is, he has some solid wins and a lot of losses, lol.


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## Evil Ira (Feb 9, 2009)

smithy1983 said:


> Crop Cop.


Haha...Crop Cop. Anyway, as with Fedor, he'll have to prove himself at August. He didn't look quite himself against Arlovski. He was getting knocked all over the place before he scored the flash KO (and that's only because Arlovski's chin was weak). Still, he's proved hisself over and over again. Hopefully he's not one of my favourite three (Arlovski, Cro Cop, and Fedor) to slip (in the case of Cro Cop, just slightly) down the P4P rankings. ray01:ray01:


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## NastyNinja (Feb 4, 2009)

I need to pratice the way Ironman and bitch slap everybody into being humble...

You need to post even more :thumb02:


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## sk double i (Apr 13, 2007)

When Fedor was reigning champ in Pride, you had guys like Mir, Arlovski and Silvia topping the UFC HW division. Fedor just knocked out two of the three and Frank is about to lose to Lesnar in less than a month. How can you argue that he was not or is not the greatest HW?


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

Until beaten he is the greatest


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Samborules said:


> Until beaten he is the greatest


I would go so far and say that even if he starts to feel the effects of age and loses his next 10 fights he will go into history as the best there ever was.


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## Evil Ira (Feb 9, 2009)

Samborules said:


> Until beaten he is the greatest


He has been beaten before...


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## Simmi (Jan 18, 2009)

Evil Ira said:


> He has been beaten before...


True but it was a freak cut though and not representative of the fight. There isn't a man out there who can claim to have beaten Fedor in an MMA match and truly believe it.

Another thing I struggle to understand is the criticising of Fedor's recent opponents. Apparently Sylvia and Arlovski are jokes now, but people seem to have such short memories.

When Fedor emasculated Sylvia he wasn't a schmo - coming off a closely fought loss to Nog for a UFC belt. Then there's Andrei, who many (including me) felt could be Fedor's toughest test in years. 

It's like because Fedor humiliates these guys he's somehow then fighting lesser opposition. I mean should Fedor let the fight slip into later rounds just to make his opponents look credible? Hell no he shouldn't.

The fact these guys have recently again had humiliating KO's isn't Fedor's fault, nor his concern. He did his job.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Fedor will always be the greatest fighter in MMA, regardless if he starts losing or not. He will be the Sugar Ray Robinson of MMA.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

NastyNinja said:


> I need to pratice the way Ironman and bitch slap everybody into being humble...
> 
> You need to post even more :thumb02:


I'm working on a job writing an MMA column for a pretty big newspaper. If that happens, I may not be posting as much, but we'll see.



joshua7789 said:


> How can you possibly put overreem and rogers above mir or lesnar? Who has overreem beaten? Rogers has some kind of argurement to be in the top ten because he beat arlovski, but overreem hasnt done anything. He was a mid level lhw and has only one decent win at hw against paul buentello. Lesnar has beaten herring and couture, mir has wins over nog, sylvia, hardonk, and lesnar. Overreem is way overrated by folks on this board.


Mir is definitely better than Overeem. If that fight happened, I would take Frank.

I wouldn't necessarily take Lesnar over Overeem. I'm not convinced I would take Lesnar over Rogers.

Lets face it, Brock Lesnar has two wins that matter. It's hard for me to get juiced for Brock when his biggest win is a knockout of a guy who gave up 40 pounds and hadn't fought in ten months. I love Randy and he's a legend, but it's not an entire career builder for Brock.

Brock has a lot of potential, but he's got three wins. I'm picking him to beat Frank Mir and make it four, but I'm still not convinced he can handle someone who can hit as hard as Brett or Overeem.

Also, keep in mind that Rogers would be the biggest opponent Brock has ever fought, by far. So, it's worth acknowledging, would Overeem, who's a little bigger than Herring and a helluva lot better.

Oh, and to say Overeem hasn't done anything is ridiculous. Since Pride collapsed, the guy is 5-1-1. He's got a better record in the last two years than Brock has in his entire career, and he's beaten Mark Hunt, Paul Buentello and Gary Goodridge, all solid opponents. Frankly, I'd take Buentello over Herring right now and, depending on how Randy does against Nogueira, I might take him in that one too.

Anyway, that's the argument.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

I think hunt and goodridge are cans. Buentello is pretty solid though. Other then buentello, overreem hasnt beaten a solid fighter since belfort in 06. Id say lesnars two recent ufc wins are more impressive then overreems last five, but these are pretty debatable opinions.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

joshua7789 said:


> I think hunt and goodridge are cans. Buentello is pretty solid though. Other then buentello, overreem hasnt beaten a solid fighter since belfort in 06. Id say lesnars two recent ufc wins are more impressive then overreems last five, but these are pretty debatable opinions.


Yeah, but you see the argument here.

Lesnar has three career fights. One over a guy who's not relevant (Kim). One over a guy whose only wins in recent history were a (very) split decision over Kongo (a feat shared by Carmelo Marrero) and a UD of Brad Imes (Herring). One over a guy who hadn't fought in 10 months, at 44 years old, who was giving up a huge reach advantage and 45-55 pounds, depending on where Brock's weight was when he stepped into the cage (Couture).

His loss came at the hands of a guy who was hardly a top fighter at the time. Let's not forget that when Mir stepped in, he wasn't even a debatable top ten heavyweight. He had lost to Vera and Pe De Pano.

In fact, Mir's record, in retrospect, is based on two wins. His win over Lesnar (and, as I pointed out, Lesnar's not exactly accomplished) and his knockout of Nogueira.

The Nogueira win is what puts him so high in people's rankings.

That said, since his accident, Frank Mir is 4-2. Post motor-cycle accident Mir has been stopped by two guys who are not top fighters and has beaten a Nogueira who's far from in his prime (I love Nog, but the first two rounds against Tim were hard to watch). The win over Lesnar came after Lesnar got on top and pounded him pretty good. Of course, it was a great submission, just as his win over Nogueira came by way of a great knockout. I won't argue that.

Still, the modern Frank Mir has not been tested the way that some guys have. Arlovski, at least, has solid wins over Nelson and Rothwell in recent memory, which makes him a credible, top tier win for Rogers.

Buentello is a monster, and the fact that Alistair has a win over him is impressive. People say Paul is credible as a heavyweight, but look at the guys record. Since stepping onto the big stage in 2005, Buentello is 8-2. His only losses are to Alistair and... the championship winning, freakish incarnation of Arlovski that ran the UFC heavyweight division.

Frankly, the Buentello win means more to me than any other win that either of those two fighters has, with the exception of Mir's win over Nogueira (which he deserved, as that was great gameplanning).

Of course, this is easily debatable.

Either way, you see why Fedor may not want to step in. There may be marginally more significance for Fedor to fight Mir or Lesnar, but once he's got those wins (or the win over whoever wins their fight), who's he going to fight next?

Outside of the UFC he can fight the winner of Alistair/Rogers, and will be a huge favorite. But after that, he can also fight Buentello (assuming Buentello beats whoever he ends up fighting at Affliction). He can fight Jeff Monson. He can fight Pedro Rizzo, if Rizzo ends up fighting and beating Buentello. He can fight Aleks. He can fight Werdum, which would be cool.

There are better guys outside than inside right now. Also, there are a lot of cool up-and-comers outside, though hopefully the UFC will start to attract them to build that division. Frankly, I'd love to see Fedor vs. Roger, and if Fedor ends up with Strikeforce, that could happen.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

Not to mention Brock Lesnars Ground and Pound sucks, If he did get Fedor to the mat I doubt he would do much but get subbed. 

I think Fedors subs are a lot better than Mirs to, I think Mirs JJ is overatted, I have never seen him submit anyone with a good ground game, no chance he could submit the guy with probably the best ground game in MMA.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

looney liam said:


> the fedor debate is the same as it always has been. one side claims he's an mma god, as close to unbeatable as you can get. the other side discredit his victories, claiming they're cans, or past their prime etc. that in actual fact he is beatable, and he'll even lose his next fight. i used to be on the other side, but after he beat tim you can't really dispute his greatness.
> 
> sure he is human and anyone can lose on any given day, but i actually hope it doesn't happen. MMA needs a true undisputable fighter, that people can be compared too years down the line. boxing has muhammad ali, Rocky Marciano, mike tyson etc. MMA has Fedor Emelianenko!


mma has anderson silva


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## hebaj (Jun 25, 2008)

Any fighter of such high profile will ALWAYS have his detractors.

Fact is Fedor ran through arguably the toughest and most talented division in the young history of MMA, running through the PRIDE HW division from 2003-2006.

Not withstanding the fact we are talking about HW's here, the most unpredictable division in any fight sport given the size and stregth of such men and that one punch knockout power.

Brock Lesnar is the only viable challenger in the UFC, and even he is yet to prove worthy of a shot.

Frank Mir will get killed by Lesnar, the win over Nog nothing but a smokescreen covering the fact Nog was severely unprepared for the fight.

The greater fighters and challenger lie outside the UFC. Barnett and Overeem the next two in line.

The recent run of upset wins only further the legend of Fedor, given that over 30 HW battles he has NEVER encounted such a fate.


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## wado lado (Feb 5, 2009)

Finnsidious said:


> It doesn't mean anything, and I'm not sure I'd say Fedor is avoiding the UFC, you could just as easily say they are avoiding him. He has said over and over he'll fight in the UFC, if they let him do his *****. The UFC won't agree, and he won't give it up, so he's never going to fight there.
> 
> The fact Sylvia and AA have looked like crap since they lost to Fedor doesn't mean much, as long as Fedor keeps destroying top heavyweights, like Barnett, he is the undisputed #1.
> 
> After he beats Barnett, his next fight could be a problem, since there won't really be any top heavyweights outside the UFC he hasn't mauled.


can someone tell me what ***** is. i keep hearing about it but dont really know what it is. could someone tell me?


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

wado lado said:


> can someone tell me what ***** is. i keep hearing about it but dont really know what it is. could someone tell me?


In short: a Russian form of submission wrestling. It's very similar to judo, has a lot of throws and some good submissions.


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## patojag (Jun 20, 2009)

hebaj said:


> Any fighter of such high profile will ALWAYS have his detractors.
> 
> Fact is Fedor ran through arguably the toughest and most talented division in the young history of MMA, running through the PRIDE HW division from 2003-2006.
> 
> ...



I like Fedor eversince Pride glory days. Back then, I regard him as the best ever. 

But in all honesty, I got so disappointed after his fight with Arlovski. Yep, Fedor won alright but for a moment there I saw a big hole in Fedor's game. And with the rate of MMA evolution, I think his opponents will catch up to it.

I hope Fedor will prove me wrong or I hope he improves and cover that big hole ASAP. One of the posters here is right, MMA needs Fedor... We need an undisputed icon.


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## wado lado (Feb 5, 2009)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> In short: a Russian form of submission wrestling. It's very similar to judo, has a lot of throws and some good submissions.


ok thanks for the info


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Fedor in the UFC*

If Fedor went to the UFC he would clear that division out like he did in PRIDE! The only time he got close to loosing in PRIDE was when he got rocked by Fujita and he even admit that! He even got suplexed on his head by Kevin Randleman and still submitted him afterwards!


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

NastyNinja said:


> I need to pratice the way Ironman and bitch slap everybody into being humble...
> 
> You need to post even more :thumb02:


He doesn't bitch slap, though. He makes his points in a rational, nonconfrontational manner, which I and I'm sure everyone else appreciates.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Fedor's Humility*

Fedor goes in being humble and walks out of his fights being humble! The guy is a basic model of what a fighter should be in and out of the match!


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

swpthleg said:


> He doesn't bitch slap, though. He makes his points in a rational, nonconfrontational manner, which I and I'm sure everyone else appreciates.


It's a rational, nonconfrontational bitch slap.

Also, vote 4 IronMan for HOF!!! (YAY attention whore on the internet)


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## Master Shake (Dec 7, 2007)

patojag said:


> I like Fedor eversince Pride glory days. Back then, I regard him as the best ever.
> 
> But in all honesty, I got so disappointed after his fight with Arlovski. Yep, Fedor won alright but for a moment there I saw a big hole in Fedor's game. And with the rate of MMA evolution, I think his opponents will catch up to it.
> 
> I hope Fedor will prove me wrong or I hope he improves and cover that big hole ASAP. One of the posters here is right, MMA needs Fedor... We need an undisputed icon.


What is this BIG HOLE, seriously? It was a three minute match and Arlovski was only just getting the better of the striking and not doing any significant damage, then Fedor knocked him out when he made a mistake. Why does everyone talk about it like he was getting his ass handed to him on a platter? Fujita had Fedor in much more trouble than Arlovski did.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

Just because so many people cant handle the fact that Fedor is the Best MMA fighter of all time, They cant handle that nobody is better than him. And everytime he gets a new opponent and destroys them they just find something to cut him down for, when really he is the most complete Fighter of all time.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

I think the fact that he does not "look the part" works against him, but I agree to date there has been no one better or more well rounded.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

I think the fact that he "looks like a gym teacher" in the words of an MMAFer whose name I can't recall, makes him even more of a menace.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

He needs UFC exposure, I guess needs is an incorrect statement. It would be cool if he had it so that all these nay sayers would be put in their place once and for all.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Humble*

He is just an overall humble guy, anyone disagree?


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

A force of nature, are the words that come to mind.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*The Calm Before the Storm*

Another way of describing him is the calm before the storm!


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

What is interesting is that he and Barnett are good friends I guess, so their match has an interesting twist to it, somewhat.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Rampage and Hollywood*

Well this is very similar to the Rampage versus Henderson match. They both said they were good friends and the match was nothing personal. Considering both of them were in PRIDE and both of the men in this men were in PRIDE its not surprising and its obviously not personal for either Barnett or Fedor either!


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