# Fedor's Legacy



## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Le's face it, it's tarnished. Yes, he was the best HW in the world at a time when the HW div. was the joke of MMA. That's the only place he shined. He did beat some old school HW's from the UFC and elsewhere. But those HW's have proven to be, at worst pathetic, at best, 2nd tier (Nog is really the only one that comes to mind). 

In reality, Fedor was at the top of the heap for a very brief time when the sport was still taking off and the HW's barely spreading their wings. What kept his reputation going so long was not beating great fighters, but a disgusting display of record protecting by his management company, himself and the mma media who puffed up his p4p ranking. 

Just as it took a middle-aged LHW in Couture to expose the HW div., it took a 40 year old middleweight UFC cut to expose Fedor as perhaps the most overrated fighter in MMA history. Like it or not, that's his legacy. Was he good during his time? Yes. But he and his cohorts wouldn't stop there and paid the price.

He should have entered the UFC and taken his lumps by the best on the world. He probably would have even got past Couture before getting destroyed by a true HW. He still would have had a great legacy. But instead he took the low road, and unfortunately even that proved too tough to navigate. 

Fedor is the most overrated fighter in MMA history.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

It's a bit harsh, but I'm going to place blame on Vadummy from M-1. 

They would have killed it win lose or draw against Brock. In fact I think Fedor would have been the one to dethrone em. 

Funny how things turn out...


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## scovedog1 (Nov 13, 2010)

i would not say tarnished i have watch alot of prides and almost all the ufc and fedor is one of the greats for sure he almost had henderson and got caught. Know i am pissed he did not go to ufc write away but maybe he did not feel like he could compete there, to say the least he is great and dan henderson is also great i think he was win or lose in the fedor fight. Ufc did a wrong thing and let go dan hendo henderson. bottom line in my opnion


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

He's overrated only in that the best HW ever in MMA thus far should not be considered greater than the best at other divisions.

He'll be number 1 for a while in that division until Cain overtakes him, but I think even 3rd P4P all time is generous.


Also describing Hendo as a "UFC cut" or "UFC washout", is ridiculous. He was still a beast even if he wasn't the absolute best. He just wanted to make a ton of money so he left to SF who'd pay him 750k per fight.

But he is old as hell and he is an undersized LHW...that much is actually true.


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## Inkdot (Jun 15, 2009)

Just to clarify; Hendo did not get cut by the UFC.

But yeah, Fedors legacy is pretty much as dead as processed foodstuff. Sad to say it really, but I've never been a huge Fedor fan anyway.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

I think what is happening here is that MMA is starting to get past Fedor. We heard this story many times before. Men who were once dominant start to look less imposing. Best example would be Matt Hughes. 
remember when he was the most dominant WW in the world. Now he is nowhere in the picture. Same with Chuck Liddell and Wanderlei Silva. One day it will probably happen to Anderson Silva and GSP.


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## Inkdot (Jun 15, 2009)

Bonnar426 said:


> I think what is happening here is that MMA is starting to get past Fedor. We heard this story many times before. Men who were once dominant start to look less imposing. Best example would be Matt Hughes.
> remember when he was the most dominant WW in the world. Now he is nowhere in the picture. Same with Chuck Liddell and Wanderlei Silva. * One day it will probably happen to Anderson Silva and GSP.*


Unless they retire early, on a winning streak, it will happen eventually. Maybie sooner then later.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Bonnar426 said:


> I think what is happening here is that MMA is starting to get past Fedor. We heard this story many times before. Men who were once dominant start to look less imposing. Best example would be Matt Hughes.
> remember when he was the most dominant WW in the world. Now he is nowhere in the picture. Same with Chuck Liddell and Wanderlei Silva. One day it will probably happen to Anderson Silva and GSP.


Matt Hughes was a different case. He just lived out the lifespan of his career and passed on the torch to the next great p4p fighter in GSP. Any losses afterward were mainly just the result of him being 400 years old.

Chuck was also a different case, he met his foil in Rampage. A guy who could consistently beat him in his prime. After the devastating KO, Chuck just couldn't come back from it given his age and it ruined his chin.

Fedor's fall from grace is more similar to Takanori Gomi's more than anyone else.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I imagine people will say the same of gsp and anderson some day. I've been following MMA for a decade. Fedor was the greatest fighter to have ever lived up until the later 2000s. He is still the most achieved fighter, greatest heavyweight to have ever lived. This will not change if he loses 10 more fights.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Inkdot said:


> Unless they retire early, on a winning streak, it will happen eventually. Maybie sooner then later.


Well at this point, Anderson is pretty much ancient and any time he retires it certainly wouldn't be "early". It's crazy he's still as good as he is at his age.


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

xeberus said:


> I imagine people will say the same of gsp and anderson some day. I've been following MMA for a decade. Fedor was the greatest fighter to have ever lived up until the later 2000s. He is still the most achieved fighter, greatest heavyweight to have ever lived. This will not change if he loses 10 more fights.


Thank you.

I got him at number 2 all-time with GSP creeping up on him. Fedor is just past his prime, and he has been on the decline for a while.

His record against Minotauro Nogueira, Mirko Cro Cop, Andrei Arlovski, Tim Sylvia, Mark Coleman and Kevin Randleman (the best HW in the world during his era) is 8-0-1.

He hasn't been "Fedor" since 2006. The past three fights only tarnish his legacy a bit IMO. I hope Anderson retires before he starts to lose it, because I don't know how many times I listen to people discredit an all-time great's career when he inevitably loses a step.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Matt Hughes was a different case. He just lived out the lifespan of his career and passed on the torch to the next great p4p fighter in GSP. Any losses afterward were mainly just the result of him being 400 years.
> 
> Chuck was also a different case, he met his foil in Rampage. A guy who could consistently beat him in his prime. *After the devastating KO, Chuck just couldn't come back from it given his age and it ruined his chin.*
> 
> Fedor's fall from grace is more similar to Takanori Gomi's more than anyone else.


Chuck's chin got wrecked by Rashad not Rampage- the Rampage fight he recovered almost instantly not when he was out for minutes after the Rashad punch.

All fighters reach a stage when they start to lose unless they retire on top before their skills and abilities start to decline rapidly. It happens as it can't last forever whether time catches up to them or the abilities and talents of the up and comers over take them.

Fedor is a little different since his management did affect his later career but to go as long as he did without a loss is remarkable. He fought some great fighters in his time in Pride(yes with some lower level ones too) and beat them all. To go undefeated in MMA for as long as he did is no small feat. Tim and AA weren't the bums they are now when he KOed them either after the Pride days.

Fedor also fought as a uber small HW by UFC and Strikeforce standards and would have probably been better served fighting at LHW when he finally came to Strikeforce. 

You can argue that he's not the best ever(personally I hate those arguments since it can never be proven conclusively) but you can't take away what he did throughout his career. Some sub-par opponent? Sure but even Chuck Liddell had a title fight against Jeremy Horn who wasn't even in the UFC and just wanted to avenge a loss at the time.​


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Walker said:


> Chuck's chin got wrecked by Rashad not Rampage- the Rampage fight he recovered almost instantly not when he was out for minutes after the Rashad punch.
> 
> All fighters reach a stage when they start to lose unless they retire on top before their skills and abilities start to decline rapidly. It happens as it can't last forever whether time catches up to them or the abilities and talents of the up and comers over take them.
> 
> ...


Jeremy Horn is a good fighter though.

A far cry from the Lee Hasdell's and Mark Hunt's of the world.


Hell, even Vernon White who was pretty bad is better than Wagner Martins.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Most fans like myself wanted to see Fedor vs Josh Barnett but it wasn't Fedor or his manangement team who screwed that fight up.

I won't argue that Fedor, at times, fought lesser opponents but mixed in were top fighters like Mirko and Nog in their top prime. All of them beaten.

I really don't care how Fedor ranks on people's top P4P lists as I think they(P4P lists) are ridiculous to argue as they will never be resolved but I won't discount his careeer and win streak just because of his latest results.​


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

xeberus said:


> I imagine people will say the same of gsp and anderson some day.....


He frankly doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence. They have ducked no one. They have not avoided the best promotion and best competition. When they start getting beat, they'll go out like champions. Fedor went out like a coward in a botched attempt to protect his record. That was not the case with Hughes, Liddell, Couture, etc. etc. Even Shamrock has a better legacy. Fedor should not be rewarded for ducking and record protecting.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Calminian said:


> He frankly doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence. They have ducked no one. They have not avoided the best promotion and best competition. When they start getting beat, they'll go out like champions. Fedor went out like a coward in a botched attempt to protect his record. That was not the case with Hughes, Liddell, Couture, etc. etc. *Even Shamrock has a better legacy.* Fedor should not be rewarded for ducking and record protecting.


Dude if you are talking about Ken Shamrock you are so freaking deluded it's not even funny.​


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Fedor was the best fighter in the world for at least an 8 year period, and for all practical purposes went undefeated over a ten year span.

Every fighter's skill level eventually declines and Fedor is certainly no exception there. 

Chuck Liddell will be remembered as the greatest UFC LHW of his era; his string of losses at the end of his career does not detract from this fact.

Michael Jordan's stint with the Wizards was goofy; it does not affect his legacy.

A string of consecutive losses does have a bearing on a fighter's legacy if they occur in a fighter's prime years (late 20's, early 30's for example). 

Fedor turns 35 this year, so a decline is not unexpected.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Calminian said:


> He frankly doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence. They have ducked no one. They have not avoided the best promotion and best competition. When they start getting beat, they'll go out like champions. Fedor went out like a coward in a botched attempt to protect his record. That was not the case with Hughes, Liddell, Couture, etc. etc. Even Shamrock has a better legacy. Fedor should not be rewarded for ducking and record protecting.


lol

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, some are better than others. But to deny fedor as one of the grestest fighters in mma history is beyond ignorant. I doubt I'll see a heavyweight achieve what he has again in my life. There is no one now retired that holds a candle to fedor, not even randy couture and I love me some couture. 

When all the fickle fans stop hating, they'll remember how great fedor was, and thats how he'll be remembered in the history books.


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## beardsleybob (Jan 3, 2010)

I was checking Fedor's stats and was genuinely taken aback when I read it. 16 wins by submission out of 36 fights, only 6 T/KOs :sign04:


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

I don't know if it hurts Fedor's legacy. I think it puts it in perspective. It kind of depends on what you mean by all time great. Does that mean domininant in their time or a head to head in their prime matchup. A similarity could be drawn with boxing. Take Jack Dempsey, one of the first major champions in boxing. He is still considered an all time great, but his size and speed could compete with that of the top HWs like Lennox Lewis or Evander Holyfield. However on an all time greats list he would definitely be ahead of them. 

Fedor's legacy is that he was the best HW of the PRIDE era. Yes he was protected after the fall of PRIDE and that may hurt him somewhat. I don't think he will go down as the greatest fighter of all time or even the greatest HW, because mma is still so young. The sport simply passed Fedor by. Ali lost 3 out of his last 4. Two were to less than stellar opponents in Berbick and Spinks. Most fighters fight too long. A very few walk away when they should.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Fedor Legacy is in his own time period, anyone who shits on it is no real mma fan. The sport of mma has grown, when looking back 20 years from now you place fedor like u go other athletes on his own. Fedor is the greatest fighter out of the pride, chuck was the great lhw of the early 2000's. You leave it as what it was just like any other sport. You have the goat anderson silva who is like Jordan, then you have the older guys who are like russels, wilt,etc. For example in the nba people hold bill russel as an all time great but facts are if he was in his prime, shaq would kill him. Just as chuck in his prime would have possibly get beat by shogun,machida, and Jon jones. You don't discredit chuck, its just the sport has grown. Fighters will only get better and better.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

I dont think his legacy is in question, he was the best heavyweight for a good ten year period. His MMA age has cought up with him now, hes had a lot of wars.

In terms of the 'Best ever' no man will surpase the brilliance of Rob Emerson and why so many try is beyond me.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

xeberus said:


> I imagine people will say the same of gsp and anderson some day. I've been following MMA for a decade. Fedor was the greatest fighter to have ever lived up until the later 2000s. He is still the most achieved fighter, greatest heavyweight to have ever lived. This will not change if he loses 10 more fights.


agreed.

what does him losing now take away what he has done in the past?


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

while yes he did win most of his fights, when i look at his record, i only see 8 or 9 really challenging high quality fights, people say AA and sylvia werent crap when he fought them, but they were cans after, and are cans now. whos to say they weren't cans when he fought them after all? not to mention the fact he never went to the ufc, and has now lost to 2 people who were either cut, or wanted too much money for the ufc's taste and a bigfoot, i didnt believe he was the best when he hadnt lost since a doctor stoppage, and i certainly dont believe he ever was the best now.


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## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

rockybalboa25 said:


> I don't know if it hurts Fedor's legacy. I think it puts it in perspective. It kind of depends on what you mean by all time great. Does that mean domininant in their time or a head to head in their prime matchup. A similarity could be drawn with boxing. Take Jack Dempsey, one of the first major champions in boxing. He is still considered an all time great, but his size and speed could compete with that of the top HWs like Lennox Lewis or Evander Holyfield. However on an all time greats list he would definitely be ahead of them.
> 
> Fedor's legacy is that he was the best HW of the PRIDE era. Yes he was protected after the fall of PRIDE and that may hurt him somewhat. I don't think he will go down as the greatest fighter of all time or even the greatest HW, because mma is still so young. The sport simply passed Fedor by. Ali lost 3 out of his last 4. Two were to less than stellar opponents in Berbick and Spinks. Most fighters fight too long. A very few walk away when they should.


Hit the nail on the head. Nobody remembers Joe Lewis' or Alis losses unless it was a war. The losses at the tail end of their careers never really get noted as the fighters are on the decline. 

As for Fedor, I really don't care what peoples personal opinions of him are, he is without doubt, one of the greatest ever. Top 3. Easy. Just because the level of opponent has grown stronger while Fedor has got older doesn't mean anyone should think anything less of him. Its called progression. How can anyone really expect Fedor to be undefeated all his career when MMA is progressing and developing so fast? 

I think a couple of people mentioned fickleness. Its f*cking epidemic in the world of a MMA fan. People will be hanging of a certain fighters balls one month, next month the same fans will be denouncing the fighter, claiming him to be a 'can' or whatever. I don't think its gonna change. I think its down to each individual fan. Nobody wants to be wrong. Everyone wants to appear knowledgeable. Thats why minds change so often. People are too worried about other peoples opinions.


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## Breadfan (Jan 3, 2008)

Walker said:


> Dude if you are talking about Ken Shamrock you are so freaking deluded it's not even funny.​


Ken Shamrock's record is still pretty good and he should have retired a long time before he did (did he yet? lol). I wouldn't discount his legacy like that.


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## anderton46 (Apr 23, 2010)

The guy is 34. People talk about these three losses as if they shouldn't count as he's too old and past it. But 34 really isn't old for a fighter. We see alot of guys just starting to fight at 30. He's done very well in his career up until this point, so his legacy will remain, he was the best HW for a set period. 

But for those saying he's the best HW ever then that has no logic behind that. Seeing as he's already lost to two HW's they are surely better than him?


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

rockybalboa25 said:


> ...Fedor's legacy is that he was the best HW of the PRIDE era. Yes he was protected after the fall of PRIDE and that may hurt him somewhat. I don't think he will go down as the greatest fighter of all time or even the greatest HW, because mma is still so young. The sport simply passed Fedor by. Ali lost 3 out of his last 4. Two were to less than stellar opponents in Berbick and Spinks. Most fighters fight too long. A very few walk away when they should.


I think this is about right. Fedor was the best Pride HW for a few years. But as you say, it was when MMA was still taking off, and the HW division not even a real division yet. It was kind of a joke. 

Then came the protection years. This is why mentioning him in the same sentence with Ali is absurd. It was a shameful time for Fedor. At that point a very weird Fedor cult formed, fueled by Dana White hatred and maybe some other factors. He was puffed up as the best p4p in the world, something he was never anywhere close to. He took the low road and fought old school former champions and avoided the beasts that were incubating in the UFC. And then the low road proved too tough for him to handle getting dominated by Werdum and BF ( and almost getting beat by a tire salesman prior to that). 

But getting smoked like that by a middleweight 6 years his elder, iced his legacy or lack thereof. Like it or not, he exposed himself. Like it or not, the legacy is out the window. Even the Sherdog talking heads aren't going to be able to resurrect him.




anderton46 said:


> The guy is 34. People talk about these three losses as if they shouldn't count as he's too old and past it. But 34 really isn't old for a fighter. We see alot of guys just starting to fight at 30. He's done very well in his career up until this point, so his legacy will remain, he was the best HW for a set period.
> 
> But for those saying he's the best HW ever then that has no logic behind that. Seeing as he's already lost to two HW's they are surely better than him?


You're right there isn't . It's all emotional. And yes, he still is young, and Dan Henderson is not! More evidence this guy is (IMO) the most overrated fighter in MMA history, and perhaps in the history of all combat sports.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Fedor is one of the best ever, no tarnish to his legacy whatsoever....so what? he lost after a decade of dominance and is suffering from what EVERY fighter will eventually come across....the decline of their dominance and/or deteriaton of their skills.

He's still the guy who survived getting slammed on his head and won, the guy who beat CroCop, Big Nog etc etc etc. some of those fights are part of MMA legend...

...just my view...and I don't even like the guy!


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

LizaG said:


> ....so what? he lost after a decade of dominance and is suffering from what EVERY fighter will eventually come across....the decline of their dominance and/or deteriaton of their skills....


I'm so thankful Henderson exposed this myth. His legacy will be a decade of ducking (maybe half a decade to be fair), rather than a decade of dominance.


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## Breadfan (Jan 3, 2008)

Calminian said:


> I'm so thankful Henderson exposed this myth. His legacy will be a decade of ducking (maybe half a decade to be fair), rather than a decade of dominance.


Which 5-10 year period did he duck all opponents and only fought cans?


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

He can't be a Guy that gave us exciting fights? His record is really not that great if your looking at it to validate him as a legend. Truth be told his record is little padded IMO but I enjoyed every fight I've seen which is more than I can say about gap or Silva and to me that's enough.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

slapshot said:


> He can't be a Guy that gave us exciting fights? His record is really not that great if your looking at it to validate him as a legend. Truth be told his record is little padded IMO but I enjoyed every fight I've seen which is more than I can say about gap or Silva and to me that's enough.


That's fine. It's a very non-culti view of the guy. He wasn't the best, but was exciting to watch. But you have to admit, most of his fans are a bit out of whack and take it much further than this.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

I think thats just human nature but I've been training hard and have not had a lot of time to hangout here. Been trying to get myself in fight shape.

Anyway I have nothing but respect for Fedor and his accomplishments the only fighter I can't stand is Sonnen.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Breadfan said:


> Which 5-10 year period did he duck all opponents and only fought cans?


Sure. Let's start by journeying back to 2008. You've got Silvia (joke), completely dominated by LHW Couture. KO'd by Mercer a 50 year old boxer. Then AA (who lost to Silvia twice) was puffed up by the media as the #2 HW in the world (we can thank Sherdog for that). He of course was exposed afterward. Then the mighty Fedor takes on the tire salesman, who actually looked really good against Fedor for a while, and embarrassed him a bit. Then came Werdum, freshly cut from the UFC, suffering loses from JDS and even AA. For sure he would keep the "winning streak" going. Ooops. He armbars Fedor with relative ease. Then Big Foot utterly destroys him. Then what does the last imperious one do? Hey! let's take on a really old middleweight. Yeah, that'll get us a win for sure!! Our legacy is saved! Not. 

So what was going on before 2008 with the greatest of all time? Why there was Hong Man! Before that? Linland "the Law". A natural 185 pounder. Before that Mark Hunt and Mark Coleman (a natural LHW). 

Sorry this is not the resume of the greatest HW of all time. Was he exciting? Yes. Was he good? Yes. Anything beyond that is emotional.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

slapshot said:


> I think thats just human nature but I've been training hard and have not had a lot of time to hangout here. Been trying to get myself in fight shape.
> 
> Anyway I have nothing but respect for Fedor and his accomplishments the only fighter I can't stand is Sonnen.


My only beef with Fedor is avoiding the best and not going out like he should have. Liddell Couture Hughes even the beloved Shamrock went out like champions. They fought the best until they were no longer the best and the best passed them up. They never attempted to protect their records. Fedor could have done this. He would have had my respect. 

Who's Sonnen?


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## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

Yeah, three losses in a row, his record is f*cked! Fedor just hasn't looked like the killer he used to in Pride. I think he fights more for a paycheck now rather than fighting because he loves the sport or really wants to compete.


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## Flyin' Kneez (Jul 3, 2011)

MMA fans are becoming just as fickle as boxing fans.

Lose a fight or two and all of a sudden he's 'overrated' or 'he was never that good in the first place' 

Has Fedor declined? Yes.

Has the sport passsed him by? possibly....

Is it time for him to hang up his gloves? IMO, yes.

But get the **** outta here with all the 'overrated' 'not that good' bullshit. Fedor is the greatest HW of his era, hands down.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Flyin' Kneez said:


> MMA fans are becoming just as fickle as boxing fans.
> 
> Lose a fight or two and all of a sudden he's 'overrated' or 'he was never that good in the first place' ....


I've about had it with this canned moronic response. If you think that's what this is about, you're absolutely clueless. Please pay attention. You might learn something.


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## Flyin' Kneez (Jul 3, 2011)

Calminian said:


> I've about had it with this canned moronic response. If you think that's what this is about, you're absolutely clueless. Please pay attention. You might learn something.


Ah yes, the good old trusty, 'your a noob so you don't know anything' response. Original.

Please don't patronise me. The only thing moronic is you assuming anyone who doesn't agree with your way of thinking is stupid.

And it's true what i said. Pick any member of this forum at random and check their posts about Tito before and AFTER the Bader fight.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Flyin' Kneez said:


> Ah yes, the good old trusty, 'your a noob so you don't know anything' response. Original....


Did you actually read the OP? Just curious.


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## Flyin' Kneez (Jul 3, 2011)

Calminian said:


> Did you actually read the OP? Just curious.


From the beginning of the thread or the one directed at me? (yes I read both)


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Flyin' Kneez said:


> From the beginning of the thread or the one directed at me? (yes I read both)


When you read things silently, do your lips move?


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## Breadfan (Jan 3, 2008)

Calminian said:


> Sure. Let's start by journeying back to 2008.


Which 5 years are they? If you're starting at 2008 he's only had 3 wins, not to mention that 5 years is impossible since that was only 3 years ago. 

I'm not even arguing that he's a legend at this point. Hell I don't even really like him, I'm just wondering where someone would have the chutzpah to say he has half a decade of ducking opponents.


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## Flyin' Kneez (Jul 3, 2011)

Calminian said:


> When you read things silently, do your lips move?


Nice deflection from the point. Anytime you wanna talk about MMA, just let me know.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Breadfan said:


> Which 5 years are they? If you're starting at 2008 he's only had 3 wins, not to mention that 5 years is impossible since that was only 3 years ago.
> 
> I'm not even arguing that he's a legend at this point. Hell I don't even really like him, I'm just wondering where someone would have the chutzpah to say he has half a decade of ducking opponents.


I definitely have the chutzpah to say he's been ducking the best for 5 or 6 years. In my post I went all the way back to 2006.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Flyin' Kneez said:


> Nice deflection from the point. Anytime you wanna talk about MMA, just let me know.


Just trying to diagnose the problem. Trying to figure out how you inferred from the OP that this is about Fedor's recent 3 loses. But you said you read it, so......


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## Flyin' Kneez (Jul 3, 2011)

Calminian said:


> Just trying to diagnose the problem. Trying to figure out how you inferred from the OP that this is about Fedor's recent 3 loses. But you said you read it, so......


Ohhhh, so it's a coincidence you've thought of this thread two days after his third consecutive loss? 

But anyway, 



Calminian said:


> he was the best HW in the world at a time when the HW div. was the joke of MMA. those HW's have proven to be, at worst pathetic, at best, 2nd tier (Nog is really the only one that comes to mind).


Really?


Semmy Schilt - 23 - 9 in MMA 1-0 in kickboxing, with wins over Mezger, Pete Williams and Kondo. 

Defeats Heath Herring - In the top 10 in MMA, was 20-8 with wins over Igor, Mark Kerr, Inoue, Evan Tanner and Schrijber. 

Mark Coleman (x2) - Former UFC Champ, Former PRIDE HW GP 2000 Winner, top 10 at the time, 13 - 6 in MMA. Wins over Frye, Igor, Fujita, Severn, and Goodridge. 

Kevin Randleman - Former UFC Champ, top 10 at the time. 15-8 in MMA with wins over Mirko Cro Cop, Ninja Rua, Sobral, Rizzo, Pete Williamsand Maurice Smith

Mirko Cro Cop - top 5 kickboxer and MMA fighter, 16 - 3 in MMA, 16 - 7 in kickboxing. Wins over Sapp, Bonjasky, Hunt, Aerts, Musashi, Nortje, Jerome le Banner, Wanderlei Silva, Sakuraba, Herring, Igor, Aleksander Emelienako, Josh Barnett, Randleman, and Coleman. 

Matt Lindland - Olympic gold Medalist, top 5 in MW, 20 - 5 at the time. With wins over Newton, Horn, Van Aresdale, Lutter, Fryklund, Baroni, Militech, Ricardo Almeida, and Fulton. 

Tim Sylvia - Former two time UFC Champ 24-5 at the time, with wins over Jeff Monson, Arlovski, Asseurio Silva, Tra Telligman, Wes Sims, Gan Mcgee, Ricco Rodriguez, Jason Lambert, Mike Whitehead, and Ben Rothwell. 

Andrei Arlovski - 2 time UFC champ, 15 - 6 in MMA at the time. Wins over, Jake OBrien, Roy Nelson, Rothwell, Werdum, Cruz, Buentello, Eilers,Tim Sylvia, and Matuyshenko 

These guys were jokes?


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Come on guys if your really going to take the negative road on fedor's legacy and bright up that his past was a joke etc. You might as well bring everything that happen in the past in mma in to dispute. Fedor is a legend leave it as that, if your going to let his 3 fights lost in recent memory put an astrik on his entire career you might as well do the same to even great fighter from the pass. 

At the end of the day, Fedor,wandy,big nog,chuck,bass,gracie,etc are all mma legend and all have great legacy in the sport. Just leave the past in the past and move on. Don't let the future affect the pas, because deep down we all know any old school legend could not hang with the guys today.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Flyin' Kneez said:


> Ohhhh, so it's a coincidence you've thought of this thread two days after his third consecutive loss?


Er, okay. At this point I'm guessing the lips move.



Flyin' Kneez said:


> But anyway,


But anyway.....



Flyin' Kneez said:


> Semmy Schilt - 23 - 9 in MMA 1-0 in kickboxing, with wins over Mezger, Pete Williams and Kondo.
> 
> Defeats Heath Herring - In the top 10 in MMA, was 20-8 with wins over Igor, Mark Kerr, Inoue, Evan Tanner and Schrijber.
> 
> Mark Coleman (x2) - Former UFC Champ, Former PRIDE HW GP 2000 Winner, top 10 at the time, 13 - 6 in MMA. Wins over Frye, Igor, Fujita, Severn, and Goodridge.


Coleman was a natural Light Heavyweight. 



Flyin' Kneez said:


> Kevin Randleman - Former UFC Champ, top 10 at the time. 15-8 in MMA with wins over Mirko Cro Cop, Ninja Rua, Sobral, Rizzo, Pete Williamsand Maurice Smith


As was Randleman



Flyin' Kneez said:


> Matt Lindland - Olympic gold Medalist, top 5 in MW, 20 - 5 at the time. With wins over Newton, Horn, Van Aresdale, Lutter, Fryklund, Baroni, Militech, Ricardo Almeida, and Fulton. Current
> 
> Tim Sylvia - Former two time UFC Champ 24-5 at the time, with wins over Jeff Monson, Arlovski, Asseurio Silva, Tra Telligman, Wes Sims, Gan Mcgee, Ricco Rodriguez, Jason Lambert, Mike Whitehead, and Ben Rothwell.
> 
> ...


Yes. I have a great deal of respect for Crocop and Nogueira. They went for the best which was in the UFC, and though not successful, they went the highroad. They went out like true champions. Fedor went the low road, and couldn't cut it there. He tried to cheat and failed.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Calminian said:


> Yes. I have a great deal of respect for* Crocop* and Nogueira. *They went for the best, and though not successful, they went the highroad.* They went out like true champions. Fedor went the low road, and couldn't cut it there either.


Please explain the bold part? Aside from the hype fedor got, Crocop had just as much hype when he enter the ufc. The difference is crocop has been a bigger bust that fedor. You can't say fedor took the low road because we don't know fedor, his manager,the ufc pov, etc around the situation. We don't know if Dana wanted fedor to train in amaerican,etc.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> Please explain the bold part? Aside from the hype fedor got, Crocop had just as much hype when he enter the ufc. The difference is crocop has been a bigger bust that fedor. You can't say fedor took the low road because we don't know fedor, his manager,the ufc pov, etc around the situation. We don't know if Dana wanted fedor to train in amaerican,etc.


It's not about hype, it's about competition. Crocop didn't duck, and he deserves props for that. Yeah he got smashed as did Nog, as did HH as did all Pride fighters. But that doesn't take away from his accomplishments. MMA past him up. No shame in that. 

What Fedor did, fighting 2nd tier fighters for years in an attempt to protect his record was shameful. He deserves no respect. And I used to be a fan, and he lost me as a fan before he ever lost.


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## Flyin' Kneez (Jul 3, 2011)

Calminian said:


> Coleman was a natural Light Heavyweight.
> 
> 
> 
> As was Randleman


So by your logic, GSP's victories over BJ mean nothing?




Calminian said:


> Yes. I have a great deal of respect for Crocop and Nogueira. They went for the best which was in the UFC, and though not successful, they went the highroad. They went out like true champions. Fedor went the low road, and couldn't cut it there. He tried to cheat and failed.


I think Fedor not joining the UFC was more to do with ridiculous demands M-1 global were making and less to do with Fedor ducking top-tier competition.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Flyin' Kneez said:


> So by your logic, GSP's victories over BJ mean nothing?


Yeah, I don't really think BJ had a chance against GSP. The first fight, maybe, but GSP became a beast. BJ was too small too weak. 



Flyin' Kneez said:


> I think Fedor not joining the UFC was more to do with ridiculous demands M-1 global were making and less to do with Fedor ducking top-tier competition.


Look, M-1 = Fedor and Fedor = M-1. Fedor could have joined the UFC if he wanted. And M-1 couldn't pay to get him in now.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Calminian said:


> It's not about hype, it's about competition. Crocop didn't duck, and he deserves props for that. Yeah he got smashed as did Nog, as did HH as did all Pride fighters. But that doesn't take away from his accomplishments. MMA past him up. No shame in that.
> 
> What Fedor did, fighting 2nd tier fighters for years in an attempt to protect his record was shameful. He deserves no respect. And I used to be a fan, and he lost me as a fan before he ever lost.


I don't think he was ducking anybody, i just think he was doing what was best for him. Think about it he is a private russian man with a strong believe in god. Like i said i don't know fedor or the situation, but i do know the ufc would have made him into a pop star type figure. He has fought every man that was possible. He has ont really duck anyone, u can say reem but if he had beat big foot, him and reem would have been on a collision course.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> I don't think he was ducking anybody, i just think he was doing what was best for him. Think about it he is a private russian man with a strong believe in god. Like i said i don't know fedor or the situation, but i do know the ufc would have made him into a pop star type figure. He has fought every man that was possible. He has ont really duck anyone, u can say reem but if he had beat big foot, him and reem would have been on a collision course.


Forgive me, but I just don't buy this. From what I can see, the UFC is treating Nog, Cop, Wandy, Rua, Rampage just fine. They would have treated Fedor just fine also. Both he and M-1 would have made a lot of money. He would have won some and lost some. He likely would have gotten an immediate title shot.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Calminian said:


> Forgive me, but I just don't buy this. From what I can see, the UFC is treating Nog, Cop, Wandy, Rua, Rampage just fine. They would have treated Fedor just fine also. Both he and M-1 would have made a lot of money. He would have won some and lost some. He likely would have gotten an immediate title shot.


They want Wandy to retire, Big nog and Dana's relationship has kind of been iffy in recent memory. Shogun and Page are different these guys were still in there prime and huge cash cow. THe way i look at it M1/ Ufc both are head strong and both wanted something none is willing to give. I always saw Strikefroce then the m1 global logo underneath this weekend. For the ufc to do that it would have been ridiculous. 

But at the end of the day, those 4 guys you list are the complete opposite of fedor. It might be a little out of line but it might be the truth. Fedor is a hardcore russian, he loves his country. I don't think fedor would ever live,train, or do the things the ufc would have required from him in the usa.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Calminian said:


> I'm so thankful Henderson exposed this myth. His legacy will be a decade of ducking (maybe half a decade to be fair), rather than a decade of dominance.


why did you quote my response out of everyones to put this opinion across? I never suggested he ducked anyone, look at his record? He's fought the elite during his Pride years. Undefeated fr nearly 10years? you don't get that by taking the easy road!

others have said the exact same as me...don't single me out please sweetheart!


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

You can't water down his wins with a size argument, Fedor himself is a natural cruiserweight and IMO should fight at lw. 

He didn't duck anyone in pride and to me m1 was the issue with matchmaking. He's a legend not for what he is doing now or where he's ranked in today's mma but for what he did in pride.


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## Coq de Combat (Sep 17, 2007)

xeberus said:


> I imagine people will say the same of gsp and anderson some day. I've been following MMA for a decade. Fedor was the greatest fighter to have ever lived up until the later 2000s. He is still the most achieved fighter, greatest heavyweight to have ever lived. This will not change if he loses 10 more fights.


excellent response. nothing more is needed here.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

anderton46 said:


> The guy is 34. People talk about these three losses as if they shouldn't count as he's too old and past it. But 34 really isn't old for a fighter. We see alot of guys just starting to fight at 30. He's done very well in his career up until this point, so his legacy will remain, he was the best HW for a set period.
> 
> But for those saying he's the best HW ever then that has no logic behind that. Seeing as he's already lost to two HW's they are surely better than him?


So i Guess GSP is equal to Serra since they are 1-1 by your logic and Jardine is better than Liddell since got a victory over him too........:sarcastic12:


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

LizaG said:


> why did you quote my response out of everyones to put this opinion across? I never suggested he ducked anyone, look at his record? He's fought the elite during his Pride years. Undefeated fr nearly 10years? you don't get that by taking the easy road!
> 
> others have said the exact same as me...don't single me out please sweetheart!


Sweatheart! Who you call'n sweatheart? 

And yes, Fedor did take on the best HW's during his Pride years. But after that he ducked like it was nobody's business in an attempt to protect that record. And he still failed.

And how exactly did I single you out? I've been respond to just about every Fedor nut hugger here.


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## urbanangel22 (Jul 30, 2011)

Calminian said:


> Le's face it, it's tarnished. Yes, he was the best HW in the world at a time when the HW div. was the joke of MMA. That's the only place he shined. He did beat some old school HW's from the UFC and elsewhere. But those HW's have proven to be, at worst pathetic, at best, 2nd tier (Nog is really the only one that comes to mind).
> 
> In reality, Fedor was at the top of the heap for a very brief time when the sport was still taking off and the HW's barely spreading their wings. What kept his reputation going so long was not beating great fighters, but a disgusting display of record protecting by his management company, himself and the mma media who puffed up his p4p ranking.
> 
> ...


I think respected and overrated must be distinguished. Randy was hardly the best heavyweight, but respected by all... in the same way Fedor's humility and fight ethic is respected by all. All those who consider him invincible AND those who consider him to be way overrated, are off the mark. The guy is a legend the same way, Mirko, Randy, Wanderlei and Hendo are... I think trying to say who the bigger legend is, is where the fail comes along. Its a bit like trying to say which supermodel is hotter... stupid, but one thing must be taken for granted... we all eventually lose that edge.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

No fighter lives forever...they will have years that don't resemble their peak, but they remain Greats forever regardless. Hughes, Lidell, Couture all had less successful years than their heyday, but remain Greats in spite of those losses.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

urbanangel22 said:


> I think respected and overrated must be distinguished. Randy was hardly the best heavyweight, but respected by all... in the same way Fedor's humility and fight ethic is respected by all. All those who consider him invincible AND those who consider him to be way overrated, are off the mark. ....


So would you admit he was slightly overrated? 

For me it's been crazy following this guy over the years waiting for him to prove his ranking. As well as all the trash talking that went on for him. As far as I'm concerned, he never earned his ranking in the last 5 years. Before that, yes, he was the best HW. There are 5 or 6 guys in the UFC that would have beaten him in the HW division. And I think there were also a few LHW's that would have also. Regardless, fighters should have to prove their rank, and not get rewarded for staying away from the top promotion.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

LizaG said:


> No fighter lives forever...they will have years that don't resemble their peak, but they remain Greats forever regardless. Hughes, Lidell, Couture all had less successful years than their heyday, but remain Greats in spite of those losses.


Of course! I never disputed this. But this thread is not about that. It's about a fighter who ducked the best for years to protect his record. none of the above mentioned did that. That's the difference.

What bugs me is the straw man that's continually put forth that this is about losses at the end of a career. (notice the moronic post below mine)


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## Coq de Combat (Sep 17, 2007)

LizaG said:


> No fighter lives forever...they will have years that don't resemble their peak, but they remain Greats forever regardless. Hughes, Lidell, Couture all had less successful years than their heyday, but remain Greats in spite of those losses.


agreed.

whats happened to fedor eventually happens to all fighters. then of course there will always be some smarthead troll claiming that their records are tarnished, and whatnot.. :sarcastic12:

especially disgusting are the ones that claims that their records already had been tarnished long before the end of their career


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## urbanangel22 (Jul 30, 2011)

Calminian said:


> So would you admit he was slightly overrated?
> 
> For me it's been crazy following this guy over the years waiting for him to prove his ranking. As well as all the trash talking that went on for him. As far as I'm concerned, he never earned his ranking in the last 5 years. Before that, yes, he was the best HW. There are 5 or 6 guys in the UFC that would have beaten him in the HW division. And I think there were also a few LHW's that would have also. Regardless, fighters should have to prove their rank, and not get rewarded for staying away from the top promotion.


Yup, I do agree with pretty much all you said...


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

urbanangel22 said:


> Yup, I do agree with pretty much all you said...


You are a scholar and a gentleman. :thumbsup:


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## urbanangel22 (Jul 30, 2011)

Calminian said:


> You are a scholar and a gentleman. :thumbsup:


lol. The thing is, with me... I was always a big Fedor fan as he was a giant killer... as I was an Overeem fan, because he was kicking ass in K1... but as fighters get popular, many fans are really quite emotionally involved. The truth is, I love watching great fights, I can sometimes swap loyalties midway through a fight. My loyalty isn't rational or emotional... I used to like Jon Jones and hate Rashad but now I hate Jon Jones and like Rashad.. (well hate might be a bit strong).

The point I'm getting to, is that many die-hard fans stuck on the Fedor train until the very end. I think thats cool... but its not the way I work. I'm a GSP supporter no doubt... but one things for sure, if GSP and Fedor were fighting on different cards on the same night... I'd watch Fedor, win or lose. The guy is a warrior and he's got my respect, but I think some of the hero worship verges on serious manlove obsession.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

OP you should seriously quit it already. You talk about Fedor and his ridiculous fans? Kind of hypocritical considering you're trying to slander him.

He never ducked anyone, that's just plain nonsense. You said he was irrelevant since 2006... he fought 2 ex UFC champs that 'were' (key word) ranked then.

Barnett was the only other big name he would have fought then (if it hasn't been for his partaking in a banned substance).

Fans like you make everyone else really look bad because of your negativity, lack of knowledge and disrespect to a legend.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Big_Charm said:


> OP you should seriously quit it already. You talk about Fedor and his ridiculous fans? Kind of hypocritical considering you're trying to slander him.
> 
> He never ducked anyone, ..........


I couldn't read another word after this. You just lost all credibility.


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## urbanangel22 (Jul 30, 2011)

Calminian said:


> I couldn't read another word after this. You just lost all credibility.


I dont think he ducked anyone... Alistair Overeem doesn't either. Alistair admitted that Fedor as a fighter wouldn't duck anyone, but his management - ABSOLUTELY. Fedor may have made more money with M1, but they were without a doubt terrible for MMA and the "legacy" of Fedor as a whole.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Big_Charm said:


> OP you should seriously quit it already. You talk about Fedor and his ridiculous fans? Kind of hypocritical considering you're trying to slander him.
> 
> He never ducked anyone, that's just plain nonsense. You said he was irrelevant since 2006... he fought 2 ex UFC champs that 'were' (key word) ranked then.
> 
> ...


Thank you!

I'm annoyed with this blatant hate-fest already, I'm not a fan of Fedor's by any means but he's still a warrior who dominated for 10 freakin' years, against some of the worlds finest...and I respect the hell outta him for that.

I'm outta here!


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

urbanangel22 said:


> I dont think he ducked anyone... Alistair Overeem doesn't either. Alistair admitted that Fedor as a fighter wouldn't duck anyone, but his management - ABSOLUTELY. Fedor may have made more money with M1, but they were without a doubt terrible for MMA and the "legacy" of Fedor as a whole.


I still don't buy this. Fedor was M1. M1 was Fedor. Fedor could have done what he wanted. I just don't buy the M1 excuse. 

Think about it. You really don't think Fedor had any pull with that org? They and him could have made a fortune in the UFC, setting up a superfight with Brock. You really think Fedor was chomping at the bit and they shut it down?


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## urbanangel22 (Jul 30, 2011)

Calminian said:


> I still don't buy this. Fedor was M1. M1 was Fedor. Fedor could have done what he wanted. I just don't buy the M1 excuse.
> 
> Think about it. You really don't think Fedor had any pull with that org? They and him could have made a fortune in the UFC, setting up a superfight with Brock. You really think Fedor was chomping at the bit and they shut it down?


Thats a good question. I honestly dont know. Most fighters let their management deal with all negotiations, so not sure if M1 was any different. I dont think Fedor as a fighter would try avoid anyone. The way he faced his opponents was absolutely fearless, to the point of reckless. I dont see this as the type of behaviour by someone who ducks opponents.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

Calminian said:


> I couldn't read another word after this. You just lost all credibility.




You don't really know what credibility really is do you?

You remind me of Dana white, slander someone when you don't sign them but praise them when you have them.

Fickle fans, you're one of them.

Edit-= Up until 1-2 years ago, many highly respected fighters, journalists and critics widely considered Fedor one of the greatest fighters. You don't get those nods when you duck people or don't accomplish now do you?


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

For the last time Fedor ducked nobody...who did he duck some ufc guys? I bet if any of those dude was in strikeforce he would have fought them. He did not duck anybody in pride, he did not duck anybody in strikeforce. If he had won against big foot it would have been him vs the reem.


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## urbanangel22 (Jul 30, 2011)

Big_Charm said:


> Edit-= Up until 1-2 years ago, many highly respected fighters, journalists and critics widely considered Fedor one of the greatest fighters. You don't get those nods when you duck people or don't accomplish now do you?


This is true, but he's been criticized by the same supporters for not facing top opposition. I don't think this was his doing, more bad management... but it is really sad the guy never got to prove himself against the current UFC heavyweights. M1 deprived us of this. He is the best heavyweight ever, just as Matt Hughes (or GSP) was the best Welterweight, just as BJ was the best Lightweight... no more, no less. But his reign started to crumble for me, when Arlovski tested him...


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

urbanangel22 said:


> This is true, but he's been criticized by the same supporters for not facing top opposition. I don't think this was his doing, more bad management... but it is really sad the guy never got to prove himself against the current UFC heavyweights. M1 deprived us of this. He is the best heavyweight ever, just as Matt Hughes (or GSP) was the best Welterweight, just as BJ was the best Lightweight... no more, no less. But his reign started to crumble for me, when Arlovski tested him...


Well said, I do believe for Fedor being a co-owner of M1 is a catch 22, or double edged sword if you will.

They are terrible match makers and do not look out for his interests as a fighter other than making $$$


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Big_Charm said:


> Well said, I do believe for Fedor being a co-owner of M1 is a catch 22, or double edged sword if you will.
> 
> They are terrible match makers and do not look out for his interests as a fighter other than making $$$


All this is based on the premise that Fedor had no control in M1. The truth is he had the most control. 

Look, I can see the temptation in not wanting to go to one extreme and say he fought the best like some here are doing. But making M1 the scapegoat is not rational either. Fedor was the most influential partner in m1. If he wanted it to happen, it would have happened. I can't rationally separate him from them.


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## urbanangel22 (Jul 30, 2011)

Big_Charm said:


> Well said, I do believe for Fedor being a co-owner of M1 is a catch 22, or double edged sword if you will.
> 
> They are terrible match makers and do not look out for his interests as a fighter other than making $$$


Yup, then again... I think he might have lost should he have come to the UFC. So who knows, maybe the M1 made him much more money. I also find it particularly sad the way the UFC and Dana literally hold the careers of so many fighters as hostage. Hopefully he actually benefitted from being with M1, and not caving in to the big man. Showed that there is life outside the UFC... Makes me wonder what will happen to Overeem...


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## urbanangel22 (Jul 30, 2011)

Calminian said:


> All this is based on the premise that Fedor had no control in M1. The truth is he had the most control.
> 
> Look, I can see the temptation in not wanting to go to one extreme and say he fought the best like some here are doing. But making M1 the scapegoat is not rational either. Fedor was the most influential partner in m1. If he wanted it to happen, it would have happened. I can't rationally separate him from them.


I think not fighting in the UFC he might have wanted to avoid... but not wanting to fight the best guys? I don't agree. He faced Antonio S, and the was up against Overeem. These 2 are at the very top of the heavyweight division. Joining the UFC means achieving your dreams for a young fighter, but means selling your soul for the various veterans... Hendo, Randy, Tito amongst MANY who didnt like the way the UFC would run things. To this degree Fedor was his own man. I dont think avoiding the UFC was about him avoiding the best opposition. Its not consistent with the nature of the man.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Rather than looking at the negative aspects of what transpired I'd prefer to look at the positives. As stated in another post... 

What he left behind is the BLUEPRINT to becoming a champion and even more important to stay as one for the better part of the decade. Stoic, poised, and fearless. These are the traits that he represents. 

Suppose like all emperors before em...

All things must come to an end, even for the immortals.


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## urbanangel22 (Jul 30, 2011)

No_Mercy said:


> Rather than looking at the negative aspects of what transpired I'd prefer to look at the positives. As stated in another post...
> 
> What he left behind is the BLUEPRINT to becoming a champion and even more important to stay as one for the better part of the decade. Stoic, poised, and fearless. These are the traits that he represents.
> 
> ...


Yup, i suppose just as Ali became known for his mouth - influencing scores of boxers to come.. Fedor has left his mark. An absolute lack of any emotion... Gegard Mousasi anyone?


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Fedor has left us with some amazing fights, far more exciting than a GSP highlight reel for sure. We could argue till the cow's come home but the masses believe the hype, so let them. Critics can critique, the lovers can love and enjoy a lot of exciting fights courtesey of Mr Emelianenko.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

urbanangel22 said:


> Yup, i suppose just as Ali became known for his mouth - influencing scores of boxers to come.. Fedor has left his mark. An absolute lack of any emotion... Gegard Mousasi anyone?


Perhaps you overlooked the subtlety of the points mentioned.


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## urbanangel22 (Jul 30, 2011)

No_Mercy said:


> Perhaps you overlooked the subtlety of the points mentioned.


perhaps you overlooked humor...


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

urbanangel22 said:


> perhaps you overlooked humor...[/QUOTE
> 
> :sarcastic06:


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## urbanangel22 (Jul 30, 2011)

No_Mercy said:


> urbanangel22 said:
> 
> 
> > perhaps you overlooked humor...[/QUOTE
> ...


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## cookiefritas (Jun 17, 2011)

Fedor and Roy Jones Jr. have had very similar career paths.

Fedor was a beast in his prime, but his biggest weapon was his speed and insane reflexes. He never developed a sound defense just like Jones Jr. never did, and once they started slowing down just a bit, the other guys started landing bombs cleanly. 

I think Fedor was one of the greatest mma fighters ever, but he deteriorated much faster than others because he didn't take good care of his body and because he always had such a huge advantage in speed he never developed his stand up technique. 

It is impressive what he has accomplish when you consider the way he fights. His hands are always way down, and he just throws bombs left and right. Other fighters know whats coming, he never threw straight punches but he still caught them because he was cat quick.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

cookiefritas said:


> Fedor and Roy Jones Jr. have had very similar career paths.
> 
> Fedor was a beast in his prime, but his biggest weapon was his speed and insane reflexes. He never developed a sound defense just like Jones Jr. never did, and once they started slowing down just a bit, the other guys started landing bombs cleanly.
> 
> ...


Fedor was relatively good at his time, but I don't think he deteriorated. He's just as good as he ever was. Same is true of Cop and Nog. The sport merely passed them by. And it all happened years ago. Only dodging and ranking tricks have kept Fedor alive so long.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

So i guess Anderson Silva will never recover from being subbed by a welter weight , his legacy:sarcastic12: is now forever tarnished......


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well Anderson established himself after his submission loss to Ryo Chonan. In fact he never lost to anyone in the UFC. That has established himself as a dominant fighter in the UFC.


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