# Sylvia: why not leaner body, and better conditioned legs?



## Pokey83 (Feb 14, 2007)

What is up with Tim Sylvia's conditioning? He seems unable to cut about 15 to 20 pounds of fat that prevents him from ever coming into fights ripped and lean. He also appears to have extremely thin legs for such a massive man. If he would focus heavily on the squats and working those legs, along with a revamped diet and adding more cardio, he could be fighting at around the same wieght with less fat, more muscle, and therefore, one would think, a better fighter.

Anyone want to comment on his conditioning/strength training? He looks terrible and disgusting.


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## Cage_bx (Feb 17, 2007)

if sylvia pack some mass on his legs he would never be able to make the 265 lb limit, he looks lean but still has to cut to make 265, i dont think he can pack on anymore mass because he would be way over 3 bills.


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## SuzukS (Nov 11, 2006)

Tim does have a good diet, but remember that being 6'8" makes it harder for you to stay in shape. He's naturally built to be quite chubby, which he was until he started MMA Fighting. so he's in good shape for what he is. He could NEVER have a skinny physique.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

SuzukS said:


> Tim does have a good diet, but remember that being 6'8" makes it harder for you to stay in shape. He's naturally built to be quite chubby, which he was until he started MMA Fighting. so he's in good shape for what he is. He could NEVER have a skinny physique.


.. thats not true. anyone can be skinny, no matter how fat you are naturally or how big you are naturally, it's all about controlling your diet and taking supps and working out. if tim sylvia wanted to get lean he could, he would PROBABLY end up gaining weight though, not sure though since i don't really know his stats


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## Pokey83 (Feb 14, 2007)

Cage_bx said:


> if sylvia pack some mass on his legs he would never be able to make the 265 lb limit, he looks lean but still has to cut to make 265, i dont think he can pack on anymore mass because he would be way over 3 bills.


Yeah, but I'm saying he should cut some body fat (of which he has PLENTY) to make some room for more muscle and improved lower body strength. His body fat is probably around 20% (I'd estimate). If he could shed around 20 pounds of far, and get down to around 11 or 12% body fat, he'd be able to add some muscle, and come into fights at the same wieght with more power.

His conditioning and appearance does not befit a professional athlete, particularly in a sport as grueling as MMA.



SuzukS said:


> Tim does have a good diet, but remember that being 6'8" makes it harder for you to stay in shape. He's naturally built to be quite chubby, which he was until he started MMA Fighting. so he's in good shape for what he is. He could NEVER have a skinny physique.


Why does being 6'8 make it more difficult to stay in shape? I'm 6'4, and being taller has never made it any more difficult for me to train than any of my shorter friends (I train mainly for bodybuilding, took tae kwon do as a kid and teenager, and am just beginning to take up BJJ).


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## buo (Oct 15, 2006)

It's Silvia's body type. He is an Endomorph.



> Endomorph - the naturally fat body type. If the three different body types were in some kind of diet and workout High School together, the endomorph would be voted "Most Likely To Kill An Ectomorph." These are the people who could eat half as much as what an ectomorph or mesomorph eats and still gain weight. The endomorph is naturally "big boned" and has what some people might describe as a body that is roundly shaped.
> 
> *The endomorph has the slowest metabolism of the three different body types and can therefore gain weight the quickest and easiest. This is great for gaining muscle and strength, but terrible for losing and keeping off fat.* It's basically the complete opposite of the ectomorph.


famous endomorphs:
John goodman, Rosanne, Jack Black, George Costanza, Tim Sylvia


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

buo said:


> It's Silvia's body type. He is an Endomorph.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


supplements, diet, cardio, weight training. all 4 of those things will make an "endomorph" in good shape, they just have to work harder


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## Pokey83 (Feb 14, 2007)

buo said:


> It's Silvia's body type. He is an Endomorph.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, but that doesn't mean he can't overcome his body's natural tendencies. A lot of famous bodybuilders, such as Lee Priest, could be categorized as endomorphs, and they still get ripped to shreds come competition time (and look like fat slobs in the off season).

Furthermore, I wouldn't call Sylvia a pure endomorph; he doesn't have the thick bone structure that most have. In fact, what I find so unusual about his body is that he appears to be lanky and gangly while at the same time chubby and flabby - usually these are conflicting attributes.



wukkadb said:


> supplements, diet, cardio, weight training. all 4 of those things will make an "endomorph" in good shape, they just have to work harder


Correct.


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## Pogo the Clown (Sep 21, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> supplements, diet, cardio, weight training. all 4 of those things will make an "endomorph" in good shape, they just have to work harder




Maybe thats what those fancy magazines say (you know the ones that sell lies and false hope) but science would prove otherwise. Genetics means just about everything when it comes to body types.


No matter how much weight trianing, cardio or "supplements" you throw in, a guy like Cabbage or Tank Abbott will never have the body of a Nick Diaz or a George St. Pierre. Likewise a guy with the body type of say Nick Diaz or Kenny Florian will never have a body like Phil Baroni or a Jeff Monson no matter how hard they train.


Tim Sylvia is in good shape. You can't compete at the level he does and not be in good shape. Just because you are not ripped or don't have a "six pack" doesn't mean your not in shape. Likewise being ripped and having a six pack doesn't mean your in good shape either which is evident by Phil Baroni and James Irvin always gassing early in their fights.


Pogo


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Pogo the Clown said:


> Maybe thats what those fancy magazines say (you know the ones that sell lies and false hope) but science would prove otherwise. Genetics means just about everything when it comes to body types.
> 
> 
> No matter how much weight trianing, cardio or "supplements" you throw in, a guy like Cabbage or Tank Abbott will never have the body of a Nick Diaz or a George St. Pierre. Likewise a guy with the body type of say Nick Diaz or Kenny Florian will never have a body like Phil Baroni or a Jeff Monson no matter how hard they train.
> ...


you don't know what you're talking about man. genetics are important but supplements play a huge role in eliminating it as much as possible. research some bodybuidling before you start talking


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## EC_Raider_07 (May 10, 2006)

Pogo the Clown said:


> Maybe thats what those fancy magazines say (you know the ones that sell lies and false hope) but science would prove otherwise. Genetics means just about everything when it comes to body types.
> 
> 
> No matter how much weight trianing, cardio or "supplements" you throw in, a guy like Cabbage or Tank Abbott will never have the body of a Nick Diaz or a George St. Pierre. Likewise a guy with the body type of say Nick Diaz or Kenny Florian will never have a body like Phil Baroni or a Jeff Monson no matter how hard they train.
> ...


Pogo is correct. I dunno where you got the idea that anyone can slim down, but genetics > weights. No matter HOW hard some people work, they'll never be carved out of marble.

Anyways, what does physical appearance have to do w/ preformance, anyways?


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## Pokey83 (Feb 14, 2007)

Have a look at a picture of Lee Priest in the offseason. He is fatter than Tank Abbot, and then cuts the fat and ends up absolutely ripped to shreds. It certainly is possible. Most of the heavyweight bodybuilders are naturally somewhat endomorph leaning because that is the type of body that is able to gain enough mass to wiegh in at 300 pounds at 6 feet tall. With hard core dieting, anyone can get ripped. But not a lot of people have the self control to do the kind of dieting that pros need to do.


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## Pogo the Clown (Sep 21, 2006)

Yeah, you must buy into all of that BS in the magazines.

"Just take this (insert protein powder, creatine, or magic pill name) and you'll have 20 new pounds of muscle in just 30 days". :laugh: What a crook.



Tell me, you must work out and take "supplements", so do you look like the guy's in FLEX yet?



Pogo


-This was in response to Wukkabd.


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## Pokey83 (Feb 14, 2007)

Here, look at Lee Priest in the offseason. He's far more disgusting and fat than Sylvia:









Another offseason pic:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=218720&d=1121046957

Then look at how insanely ripped he can get:


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## EC_Raider_07 (May 10, 2006)

You guys don't understand, bodybuilding is NO WAY, SHAPE, or FORM MMA. Yeah, he's ripped. But he's so dehydrated, let him sit like that for a few hours and he'll evaporate.


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## Pogo the Clown (Sep 21, 2006)

Exactly! Why don't you think bodybuilders don't look like that year round? Because their bodies simply can't maintain such a low level of body fat and dehydration. They have to use numerous ILLEGAL drugs that allows their body to maintane soo much muscles while they lose the fat. No one can get like that naturally.



Pogo


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## Pokey83 (Feb 14, 2007)

Pogo the Clown said:


> Exactly! Why don't you think bodybuilders don't look like that year round? Because their bodies simply can't maintain such a low level of body fat and dehydration. They have to use numerous ILLEGAL drugs that allows their body to maintane soo much muscles while they lose the fat. No one can get like that naturally.
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo



For one, Sylvia already got caught taking juice to cut down, so he's got no excuse by pointing out that pro BB's take juice - so did he!

Secondly, I'm not suggesting for a second that Sylvia should get anywhere close to as ripped as a pro BB... But he could definatley lose a decent amount of fat, and it would make him a better fighter. Pro BB's are generally around 4% body fat for competitions. There is no reason Sylvia can't get down to around 10%.


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

he's a steroid using, overrated loser... that's why...


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## jU-iCe (Feb 5, 2007)

Hes 6'8 what do you expect?The guy is still in good shape.


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

Sylvia does not look like it, but he does have a good diet. You are ignorant to believe that everyone can be cut if they train hard enough. Genetics is a major factor in limiting your body physique.

I think Sylvia has like 11% body fat when he fights, that is pretty damn good.


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## Pokey83 (Feb 14, 2007)

Rated said:


> Sylvia does not look like it, but he does have a good diet. You are ignorant to believe that everyone can be cut if they train hard enough. Genetics is a major factor in limiting your body physique.
> 
> I think Sylvia has like 11% body fat when he fights, that is pretty damn good.


1- Nothing to do with training hard enough, everything to do with dieting. If you know what Tim's diet is, please post it (or a link). I'm interested to see.

2- There is no way in hell Tim is at 11% body fat. At that point abdominals begin to become visible, and needless to say that's not him.



jU-iCe said:


> Hes 6'8 what do you expect?The guy is still in good shape.


I'm not following... Your hieght has absolutely nothing to do with how much body fat you carry on you.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Pogo the Clown said:


> Yeah, you must buy into all of that BS in the magazines.
> 
> "Just take this (insert protein powder, creatine, or magic pill name) and you'll have 20 new pounds of muscle in just 30 days". :laugh: What a crook.
> 
> ...



a combination of 1) very intense diet 2) good supplements 3) body building 4) cardio will make anyone in very good shape.


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## Wise (Oct 8, 2006)

The best fighter in the world, Fedor, does not have the type of physique you describe and yet he has one of the craziest training regimens of any fighter out there. Sylvia has alreayd proven he can go 5 rounds and not gassed completly so obviously hes not osme fat slob who doesnt train properly and watch his weight. Its obvious he had a weight problem when he was younger and now just has excess skin around his midsection. The only way he would be able to get around this would be through surgery which would not be good for a guy like him because of the strain and tear put on his midsection from fighting.


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## Pokey83 (Feb 14, 2007)

Wise said:


> Its obvious he had a weight problem when he was younger and now just has excess skin around his midsection.


Are you just speculating, or is this known? Come to think of it, he does have that appearance of an obese person who lost a lot of wieght. Are there any pictures of an obese Sylvia? At 6'8 he must have been monstrous.


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## Wise (Oct 8, 2006)

Speculating, but that definetly isnt straight up fat its loose skin.


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## Pogo the Clown (Sep 21, 2006)

Its fact! Tim Sylvia said before he started training with Pat Militech he was well over 300 (I don't remember the exact number he gave but I think it was around 350).



Pogo


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## Pogo the Clown (Sep 21, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> a combination of 1) very intense diet 2) good supplements 3) body building 4) cardio will make anyone in very good shape.




Tim Sylvia is obviouslly in very good shape. But your definition of good shape is looking like one of the guy's in FLEX. So I'll ask again, you seem to trian hard and take "supplements", so do you look like any of the guy's in FLEX yet? How about any of your training buddies?



Pogo


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

Pokey83 said:


> 1- Nothing to do with training hard enough, everything to do with dieting. If you know what Tim's diet is, please post it (or a link). I'm interested to see.
> 
> 2- There is no way in hell Tim is at 11% body fat. At that point abdominals begin to become visible, and needless to say that's not him.


Same thing with dieting, some guys will never be as cut as they want due to genetics. Genetics simply poses a limit to what is possible for you to achieve. Although Sylvia looks like he is in bad shape, he is probably quite fit. I am not, however, saying that he is in his best shape.

trainingdiet if you want to know his diet. A big flaw that I see in his diet seems to be that he is more concentrated on protein than carbohydrates.

It was during one of Sylvia's interviews when he said something about being the best shape in his life. I am too lazy to go find the evidence to back up my claim, so you can just choose to believe me or not.

My claims are all based from what I have learned in a nutrition course that I took in university. I assume that they taught me valid information.


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## randyspankstito (Sep 25, 2006)

Naw, Tim's in good shape, You can tell that he's naturally a big guy and that extra skin you see around his waist doesn't actually have that much fat in it. It's mainly just extra skin from being fat before. I think he looks way trimmer than he did when he was on the juice. 

Not my favorite fighter, but I do kind of like him a little but just because he is so easy to make fun of.


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## Pokey83 (Feb 14, 2007)

That's a pretty good maintenance diet, but he could modify it to get more cut. For one thing, there is no need for the pancakes, the corn, or the bananas. Also, doesn't appear to be too much protien for such a big guy. 

I personally just eat a small carton of simply white egg whites for breakfast and a bowl of porridge, then I fill a thermos with 3 scoops of protien powder, another carton of egg whites, some skim milk powder, and some ground oat meal, and bring that to work to sip on all day (I work 12 hr days), then i usually just eat either a microwaved or boiled piece of fish (haddock, salmon, cod, or perch) before bed. If any of you guys are looking to get ripped, that diet is pretty easy on the wallet, and delivers a ton of protien to help maintain your muscle mass, and melts away the fat.:thumbsup:


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## JWangSDC (Jul 10, 2006)

Pokey83 said:


> What is up with Tim Sylvia's conditioning? He seems unable to cut about 15 to 20 pounds of fat that prevents him from ever coming into fights ripped and lean. He also appears to have extremely thin legs for such a massive man. If he would focus heavily on the squats and working those legs, along with a revamped diet and adding more cardio, he could be fighting at around the same wieght with less fat, more muscle, and therefore, one would think, a better fighter.
> 
> Anyone want to comment on his conditioning/strength training? He looks terrible and disgusting.



First off..how you look is due to genetics. I don't know what Sylvia's diet looks like or his cardio, but I have a feeling his is not gifted genetically in his looks.

He seems dedicated and seems to be doing all he can...it just doesn't sound right that Sylvia is slacking off. He could be squatting a lot and all the time and still be unable to pack on the superficial mass that you are looking for. Plus he already barely makes weight.


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## sirdilznik (Nov 21, 2006)

Pokey83 said:


> What is up with Tim Sylvia's conditioning? He seems unable to cut about 15 to 20 pounds of fat that prevents him from ever coming into fights ripped and lean. He also appears to have extremely thin legs for such a massive man. If he would focus heavily on the squats and working those legs, along with a revamped diet and adding more cardio, he could be fighting at around the same wieght with less fat, more muscle, and therefore, one would think, a better fighter.
> 
> Anyone want to comment on his conditioning/strength training? He looks terrible and disgusting.


This isn't a body building contest.


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## IDL (Oct 19, 2006)

I think his point is that Sylvia could possibly be a better fighter if he replaced some fat with muscle.

And if he replaced some boring with some entertaining.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

so many dumbasses. heres tim's training bio trainingdiet .... why do people think that if you have a ripped body you can tear anyone apart.. also being taller does make a difference in having muscle... your arms, your body, your legs everything is longer so you need to spread your muscles out farther. Look at jeff monson wat 5'8 hes a tank then look at sylvia.. sylvia will NEVER look like monson. its because jeff's body is was shorter and stockier then tim's


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## Slamnbam88 (Oct 23, 2006)

i cant believe im defending sylvia...A) squats have nothing to do with above stomach level power. B) hes not built that way...and guess what...hes dong OK with his natural build....he was a bit thinner when he was coming up but hes still the hw champ of the ufc.

look at fedor...he looks like a ****in powder puff...condioning mtersl..size does not


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## Just a Fan (Feb 12, 2007)

Chuck Liddell does not have a ripped body and he seems to do pretty well, Tim is not training to become ripped. I am sure he could take some time off and focus on body building, but then that would set him back in his MMA training. Kind of pointless really.


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## I.P.Freely (Dec 27, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> you don't know what you're talking about man. genetics are important but supplements play a huge role in eliminating it as much as possible. research some bodybuidling before you start talking


He's right actually. And although I don't have a bodyground in bodybuilding, I only have a degree in physiology. Genetics are one of the most important determiners of body fat level. Check out the second full sentence of this article:

Central Body Fat


That's the one that begins "Although genetic factors may account for up to 50% of the variance in body fat distribution..."

Genetics also determine how your body fat level will respond to exercise and diet, as this article effectively shows:

Genetic Influences on the Response of Body Fat and Fat Distribution to Positive and Negative Energy Balances in Human Identical Twins -- Bouchard and Tremblay 127 (5): 943 -- Journal of Nutrition

The mechanism is probably a kind of fat called 'Brown Adipose Tissue': if you don't have much you develop and retain fat very easily, and if you have a lot then it is very hard for you to get obsese. A team of researchers have done a series of experiments where this is removed, temporarily or permanently, from mice:

Entrez PubMed

They take two groups from the same bloodline, remove the BAT from one and not the other, give them the same diet. The ones without get very fat, the ones that with don't. 

So there are massive, genetically determined differences in individual responsiveness to diet and exercise.


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## I.P.Freely (Dec 27, 2006)

IDL said:


> I think his point is that Sylvia could possibly be a better fighter if he replaced some fat with muscle.
> 
> And if he replaced some boring with some entertaining.


He definitely needs to replace some boring with entertaining.

But fat with muscle? He has knockout power already, and his punches are already plenty fast. 

It's just this wrong idea that you can't be in shape unless you're ripped. Look at all the great fighters who aren't ripped: Fedor, Big Nog, Chuck, Barnett, B.J. Penn, Shogun. Anderson Siva isn't really ripped, and Cro Cop, although in amazing shape doesn't have kind of body where every muscle stands out whenever he does anything. 

And let's look at the list of great fighters who are really ripped: GSP... uhm GSP... uhm... GSP.... :dunno:


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## pauly_j (Nov 28, 2006)

I haven't read through the topic so I don't know if anyones summerised this, but Sylvia took steroids to try and make him look more athletic. Hes just not naturally ripped looking. To resort to illegal substances, hes probably tried all he can to look in shape.


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## Grotty (Jul 21, 2006)

Ultimately is down to one thing --- Genetics


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

Pokey83 said:


> That's a pretty good maintenance diet, but he could modify it to get more cut. For one thing, there is no need for the pancakes, the corn, or the bananas. Also, doesn't appear to be too much protien for such a big guy.
> 
> I personally just eat a small carton of simply white egg whites for breakfast and a bowl of porridge, then I fill a thermos with 3 scoops of protien powder, another carton of egg whites, some skim milk powder, and some ground oat meal, and bring that to work to sip on all day (I work 12 hr days), then i usually just eat either a microwaved or boiled piece of fish (haddock, salmon, cod, or perch) before bed. If any of you guys are looking to get ripped, that diet is pretty easy on the wallet, and delivers a ton of protien to help maintain your muscle mass, and melts away the fat.:thumbsup:


If you are going to do intense training like Sylvia you will definitely want more carbohydrates than proteins. Carbohydrates are your primary source of fuel, proteins hardly account for any amount of energy (maybe 5%). When you work out, you will burn carbohydrates before anything else. Fats are slowly metabolized and proteins are more for building amino acids, etc.

It should be like 70% (complex) carbohydrates, 15-20% proteins, 10-15% fat. Those Atkin's diet and other supposed diets that claim to help you lose weight and get trimmed are all bs.


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## randyspankstito (Sep 25, 2006)

milkkid291 said:


> so many dumbasses. heres tim's training bio trainingdiet .... why do people think that if you have a ripped body you can tear anyone apart.. also being taller does make a difference in having muscle... your arms, your body, your legs everything is longer so you need to spread your muscles out farther. Look at jeff monson wat 5'8 hes a tank then look at sylvia.. sylvia will NEVER look like monson. its because jeff's body is was shorter and stockier then tim's



Guaranteed xyience made him post that diet on his website as part of his sponsorship.


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## randyspankstito (Sep 25, 2006)

Rated said:


> If you are going to do intense training like Sylvia you will definitely want more carbohydrates than proteins. Carbohydrates are your primary source of fuel, proteins hardly account for any amount of energy (maybe 5%). When you work out, you will burn carbohydrates before anything else. Fats are solely metabolized and proteins are more for building amino acids, etc.
> 
> It should be like 70% (complex) carbohydrates, 15-20% proteins, 10-15% fat. Those Atkin's diet and other supposed diets that claim to help you lose weight and get trimmed are all bs.



Well, they help you to lose weight because you need to eat a little bit of carbs to be able to properly absorb protein, with atkins the food just goes in one end and out the other without much nutrient absorbtion. Plus with all that meat and no veggies or grains, your body produces too many keytones, the byproduct of which is absolutely horrible breath.


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## Pokey83 (Feb 14, 2007)

Rated said:


> If you are going to do intense training like Sylvia you will definitely want more carbohydrates than proteins. Carbohydrates are your primary source of fuel, proteins hardly account for any amount of energy (maybe 5%). When you work out, you will burn carbohydrates before anything else. Fats are solely metabolized and proteins are more for building amino acids, etc.
> 
> It should be like 70% (complex) carbohydrates, 15-20% proteins, 10-15% fat. Those Atkin's diet and other supposed diets that claim to help you lose weight and get trimmed are all bs.


This is BS. No serious athlete would follow a diet like that. For active people, they need tons of protien, not for energy, but for rebuilding muscle. Most professional athletes who are serious about conditioning avoid bread, pasta, white rice, etc. Have a look at Arlovski's diet; he eats fruits and veggies (fibre), almonds, and chicken and fish exclusively. The diet you are talking about is for someone who is not an athlete and doesn't have excessive muscle mass to maintain. The only carbs people who are serious about conditioning should be eating are complex ones (yams, wild rice, whole grain oats, barley, etc), and if they have some wieght to shed they should be limiting them. There is no excuse for an athlete with an obviously slow metabolism to be eating corn, pancakes, bananas, or other starchy carbs.


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## IDL (Oct 19, 2006)

I.P.Freely said:


> He definitely needs to replace some boring with entertaining.
> 
> But fat with muscle? He has knockout power already, and his punches are already plenty fast.
> 
> ...


Nobody has said you can't be fit without being ripped because you can. I think the only valid point here is that Silvia is right at the 265lb limit so he could possibly gain some muscle if he got rid of some fat, and still make weight. That can only help, right? 

the list of fighters you mentioned don't jiggle like Silvia, except Barnett, but either way this topic could apply to them if they were at the very limit of their weight class, so Penn possibly.

You're right that being ripped isn't a prerequesit of being a good fighter.

Off topic, just watched Barnett vs. Nog last night and holy crap, what a fight!


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

Pokey83 said:


> This is BS. No serious athlete would follow a diet like that. For active people, they need tons of protien, not for energy, but for rebuilding muscle. Most professional athletes who are serious about conditioning avoid bread, pasta, white rice, etc. Have a look at Arlovski's diet; he eats fruits and veggies (fibre), almonds, and chicken and fish exclusively. The diet you are talking about is for someone who is not an athlete and doesn't have excessive muscle mass to maintain. The only carbs people who are serious about conditioning should be eating are complex ones (yams, wild rice, whole grain oats, barley, etc), and if they have some wieght to shed they should be limiting them. There is no excuse for an athlete with an obviously slow metabolism to be eating corn, pancakes, bananas, or other starchy carbs.


What are your credentials to call what I stated to be bs? I am by no means claiming to be an expert on this topic, but I have taken courses about nutrition and the human body.

Atkins Facts - Atkins "Nightmare" Diet

I am not stating that proteins are not necessary, but you do not need like 50% protein to get the same effect as with 25% protein (i.e. diminishing returns). If you do an objective search on what a recommended diet is for athletes, they will discover that the recommend protein intake is ~15-30%, that is the typical AMDR.


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## I.P.Freely (Dec 27, 2006)

Pokey83 said:


> This is BS. No serious athlete would follow a diet like that. For active people, they need tons of protien, not for energy, but for rebuilding muscle. Most professional athletes who are serious about conditioning avoid bread, pasta, white rice, etc. Have a look at Arlovski's diet; he eats fruits and veggies (fibre), almonds, and chicken and fish exclusively. The diet you are talking about is for someone who is not an athlete and doesn't have excessive muscle mass to maintain. The only carbs people who are serious about conditioning should be eating are complex ones (yams, wild rice, whole grain oats, barley, etc), and if they have some wieght to shed they should be limiting them. There is no excuse for an athlete with an obviously slow metabolism to be eating corn, pancakes, bananas, or other starchy carbs.


That's commonly believed, but it has been pretty much proved to be wrong. Check out this:

Are South Beach and Atkins Diets Right for Athletes?

Quote:

"According to sports nutritionists strength athletes require high carbohydrate and adequate glycogen stored in the muscle. They point out that all high intensity, powerful muscle contractions (such as weight lifting) are fueled with carbohydrate. Neither fat nor protein can be oxidized rapidly enough to meet the demands of high-intensity exercise. Adequate dietary carbohydrate must be consumed on a daily basis to restore glycogen levels.

In fact, research shows that high protein/high fat diets can hurt performance. An inadequate amount of carbohydrate in the diet can result in:

* Reduced muscle gycogen stores in the muscle and liver
* Decreased endurance
* Decreased maximal effort
* Decreased serum glucose levels
* Increased risk of hypoglycemia 

High protein/high fat diets can also have a negative overall impact on health, including the following:

* Increased risk of certain cancers
* Increased calcium excretion and increased risk of osteoporosis
* Reduced intake of vitamins, minerals, fiber and phytochemicals 

But Don't Strength Athletes Need More Protein To Build Muscle?

Research hasn't shown this. In fact most strength athletes get far more protein than is necessary to promote muscle synthesis. The current protein recommendations for optimal muscle building in a strength athlete is 1.6 - 1.7 gm protein per kg of body weight. For a 200 lb athlete that is a total of 145 - 154 grams of protein a day - about 3 small chicken breasts. There is no scientific evidence that more than 2.0 grams of protein per kg of body weight has any additional benefit in muscle strength or size.


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## I.P.Freely (Dec 27, 2006)

Rated said:


> What are your credentials to call what I stated to be bs? I am by no means claiming to be an expert on this topic, but I have taken courses about nutrition and the human body.
> 
> Atkins Facts - Atkins "Nightmare" Diet
> 
> I am not stating that proteins are not necessary, but you do not need like 50% protein to get the same effect as with 25% protein (i.e. diminishing returns). If you do an objective search on what a recommended diet is for athletes, they will discover that the recommend protein intake is ~15-30%, that is the typical AMDR.


You are right, he is wrong. Hooray!


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## I.P.Freely (Dec 27, 2006)

IDL said:


> Nobody has said you can't be fit without being ripped because you can. I think the only valid point here is that Silvia is right at the 265lb limit so he could possibly gain some muscle if he got rid of some fat, and still make weight. That can only help, right?
> 
> the list of fighters you mentioned don't jiggle like Silvia, except Barnett, but either way this topic could apply to them if they were at the very limit of their weight class, so Penn possibly.
> 
> ...


First off- yep, that was an amazing fight. Both those guys are incredible fighters.

Second off- conceded, no one said that you have to be ripped to be fit. I guess I see this as an undercurrent in a lot of people's discussions about conditioning, especially if those people are from North America, which I guess bought the gym body to the world. 

Regarding Sylvia, what you say makes sense. But he is a professional, loves being champion and is in the Miletich camp- I think it is safe to assume that he is doing everything that he can be to be in his best possible shape, and he has access to good nutritionists. So the question is "why is that reasoning not sound?"

It's hard to say because (a) sports science and nutrition science is at a very early, immature stage in terms of number of years and number of dollars that have been spent, and (b) we don't know all the details of Sylvia's case. 

One plausible explaination is this: Sylvia's genetically determined level of body fat is very high. He can lower his excess weight to levels that look more like other heavyweights only by cutting a lot of water and going on a low-carb diet. But either he finds that this makes him weak and sluggish, or his coaches think that it will, and so won't let him. The idea of this explaination is that other people who don't have as high a natural level of fat, don't have to starve themselves and dehydrate themselves as much as Sylvia does to get their weight down.


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