# DANA WHITE SAYS: "This will be a great rematch"



## BouncyJones (Dec 29, 2008)

*Goldberg "How about instant rematch?"*

Yes. Yes indeed.

+++Post edit+++ My initial quote was in regards to having a rematch. With the new merged threads it appears that I support the judges' decision, which I absolutely do not.


----------



## exodus737 (Jul 10, 2009)

I Am Pissed


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

After that decision, I think there needs to be one ASAP. Shogun gained a lot of fans tonight


----------



## taz1458 (Aug 16, 2009)

Shogun got HOSED!!!


----------



## Shogun_Is_Champ (Jun 17, 2007)

Wtf... He won that fight hands down. In b4 Coldcall comes in "llol no, machida won guise"


----------



## JiPi (Oct 3, 2009)

Shogun is champ. Period.


----------



## neoseeker (Jun 16, 2007)

There should be no rematch, admit the mistake and hand the belt to Shogun.


----------



## Walker (May 27, 2007)

No rematch should be needed since Shogun won the fight- total bullshit decision. Un-fukking believable on the decision. :thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

A complete disgrace. I like Lyoto but this blows.


----------



## dafunguru (Dec 3, 2008)

SHOGUN IS DA SHIT!!!!!! ITS SO GAY, why Lyoto? someone explain the judging


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

dafunguru said:


> SHOGUN IS DA SHIT!!!!!! ITS SO GAY, why Lyoto? someone explain the judging


Why? Only thing I can think of is that the UFC needs someone to market as the worlds best fighter after Anderson retires.


----------



## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

I don't know that it's as bad a decision as it first appears. For the record I thought Shogun won 48-47, but it was very close.

One reason it looks bad is because Rua finished strong and Lyoto faded. Machida won the first 3 rounds and lost the last 2 in the judges eyes, so he still won, but Shogun finished so much stronger, it looks worse than it is.

I will wait a couple days and then go take a very close look at this fight again and see how I feel. Rember how many people bitched about the Rampage-Griffin fight and how it became almost universally accepted later that Griffin won.


----------



## dafunguru (Dec 3, 2008)

Just wait for the Fightmetric/Computstrike Report.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Shogun won the 4th and 5th incredibly decisively. No way in hell Machida won 1-3.

No chance..


----------



## Incantation (Nov 18, 2007)

Finnsidious said:


> One reason it looks bad is because Rua finished strong and Lyoto faded. Machida won the first 3 rounds and lost the last 2 in the judges eyes, so he still won, but Shogun finished so much stronger, it looks worse than it is.
> 
> I will wait a couple days and then go take a very close look at this fight again and see how I feel. Rember how many people bitched about the Rampage-Griffin fight and how it became almost universally accepted later that Griffin won.


Seriously, go f&ck yourself. Machida won the first THREE rounds? Go easy on the junk, assh*le.

And for the record, dipsh!t, not everyone's accepted the Rampage-Griffin decision either.


----------



## SlowGraffiti (Dec 29, 2007)

absolutely terrible omg...shogun was crying and had every right..the biggest fight of his career, he gives it his all and gets cheated. omg.


----------



## GStP (Dec 31, 2006)

mute the talking and watch the fight.

You guys are over reacting. The fight was super close and could of gone either way.


----------



## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

Finnsidious said:


> I don't know that it's as bad a decision as it first appears. For the record I thought Shogun won 48-47, but it was very close.
> 
> One reason it looks bad is because Rua finished strong and Lyoto faded. Machida won the first 3 rounds and lost the last 2 in the judges eyes, so he still won, but Shogun finished so much stronger, it looks worse than it is.
> 
> I will wait a couple days and then go take a very close look at this fight again and see how I feel. Rember how many people bitched about the Rampage-Griffin fight and how it became almost universally accepted later that Griffin won.


I remember different. I remember people agreeing that Forrest won immediately. The Forrest/Rampage fight wasn't as close as people think.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

*This basically killed the Shogun vs Anderson super fight.*

Anderson has too little time for this to happen now. Thank you corrupt judges. That's a battle I'd kill to see, two warriors battling it out for immortality. TRUE WARRIORS. Not ***** ass FLEEoto, whom in the face of what should've been sure defeat, is still a gunshy bitch afraid to take any chances. I can't believe FLEEoto was even mentioned in the same breath as The Spyder, seriously, I wouldn't even want to watch that fight. It'd be even more lopsided than this one. With Lyoto once agian fighting not to get KO'd.

Goddamn it.


----------



## Smiley Face (Oct 5, 2009)

Agreed but I hope it can still happen one day....

Roflcopter, What's my Sig and Av punishment. I lost.


----------



## JB2037 (Aug 10, 2008)

GStP said:


> mute the talking and watch the fight.
> 
> You guys are over reacting. The fight was super close and could of gone either way.


Are you serious, 20 thousand fans were booing the decision, they wernt listening to Joe's " biased" remarks. get a grip


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Smiley Face said:


> Agreed but I hope it can still happen one day....
> 
> Roflcopter, What's my Sig and Av punishment. I lost.


You serious?

I'd rather just call the whole thing off.

Shogun got robbed, but he didn't win.


----------



## Scorch (Apr 2, 2007)

Not really. Shogun did f-ing AMAZING!!! And actually a fight between him and Anderson would be hotter than ever! Especially at 205. They could hype it as "_UFC's two most brutal Muay Thai strikers battling it out_!.....If Shogun did _that_ to Machida, what would a fight between him and Anderson look like?!"


----------



## Smiley Face (Oct 5, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> You serious?
> 
> I'd rather just call the whole thing off.
> 
> Shogun got robbed, but he didn't win.


Ah why not, bets off i guess... It's a sad day for MMA. 

We all lost tonight.


----------



## A1yola06 (Jan 5, 2007)

*POLL: MACHIDA/SHOGUN- fair? (spolier)*

What do you guys think, was the decision fair?


----------



## Wombatsu (Jul 10, 2006)

*Boycott the UFC PPV's - message to Dana*

Its time ppl started to send a message that if this sport is to grow to its full potential the scoring must change. Adopted from boxing this simply does not work anymore, its time for change. This is the worst decision ive seen in a long time. I buy the PPV's every month, not so anymore - The UFC needs to implement change. Shogun won that fight every day of the week and 99% of us all know it.


----------



## chilo (May 27, 2007)

of course not, shogun got robbed.


----------



## ramram22 (Aug 26, 2007)

ha not it's not........Im confident in giving machida rounds 2 and 3, 1 could have gone either way. 4 and 5 clearly shogun. No 48-47 decision was a call for a sad in mma


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Scorch said:


> Not really. Shogun did f-ing AMAZING!!! And actually a fight between him and Anderson would be hotter than ever! Especially at 205. They could hype it as "_UFC's two most brutal Muay Thai strikers battling it out_!.....If Shogun did _that_ to Machida, what would a fight between him and Anderson look like?!"


Yeah, I guess you're right. But it feels really hollow without the belt on the line.


----------



## neoseeker (Jun 16, 2007)

Hell no. The whole world saw Shogun get robbed.


----------



## unclehulka13 (Nov 17, 2008)

Wombatsu said:


> Its time ppl started to send a message that if this sport is to grow to its full potential the scoring must change. Adopted from boxing this simply does not work anymore, its time for change. This is the worst decision ive seen in a long time. I buy the PPV's every month, not so anymore - The UFC needs to implement change. Shogun won that fight every day of the week and 99% of us all know it.


So dumb. Kinda like how people are supposed to not buy gas on a certain day. Will never happen.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Do you understand the UFC does not decide how a fight is scored or appoint judges? Thats the athletic commissions job so boycotting the UFC would be an exercise in futility and just be a set back to the sport.


----------



## acowyes (Oct 25, 2009)

*Judges - possible spoiler*

It is my understanding, and it might be wrong, that the judges are not affiliated by the UFC at all. IS this correct? I assume they work the same a the refs: that is, they are employed by the gaming commission (or whatever), and not the UFC.

I ask because I see lots of people upset about certain decisions, and saying it's the UFC's fault. If the judgse are in no way affianced with them, i don't see how it is their fault.

Just curious.


----------



## ZeroPRIDE (Apr 12, 2006)

there are atleast 5 threads about this already.......


----------



## TheNamesNelson (Dec 31, 2006)

Already there, done with this bullshit. Close decisions tend to go in the champions favor. Shogun didnt come close, he won that fight.

You shouldnt have to KO/TKO/SUB the champ to win, champions should be able to lose decisions and that was a perfect example.


----------



## SSD (Aug 8, 2009)

JB2037 said:


> Are you serious, 20 thousand fans were booing the decision, they wernt listening to Joe's " biased" remarks. get a grip


Are you seriously going to say that these casual fans know anything? They cheer for the fighter who seems to control the fight--Machida was less aggressive and moved away. Shogun was trying very hard to catch Machida and got quite a few leg kicks (not worth much) and body kicks.


----------



## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Do you understand the UFC does not decide how a fight is scored or appoint judges? Thats the athletic commissions job so boycotting the UFC would be an exercise in futility and just be a set back to the sport.


Man, I can't help but feel the UFC has more control over that than we think after watching that crap tonight.


----------



## dafunguru (Dec 3, 2008)

How Taste Lyoto Peepee, Shogun Won It Bro. I think Mr McMahon came to take care of the UFC while Dana White baby sitted Fedor's love child.


----------



## SniperVII (May 27, 2007)

I hope we see the Shogun vs Anderson fight before a rematch with Machida at 205


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

It's fair.

Apparently MMA fans score blocked punches, so therefore Machida kicked Shogun's ass.


----------



## Wombatsu (Jul 10, 2006)

Actually change has to start from somewhere, the obvious starting point is the UFC and Dana White. Thats kinda pretty simple. If pppl dont make a stand and be heard nothing ever changes, thats the point here.


----------



## Crester (Apr 5, 2009)

Shogun definitely got robbed! This decision is GARBAGE. Shogun completely picked apart Machida. How can they get away with making this decision???


----------



## JB2037 (Aug 10, 2008)

how anyone can vote yes is totally beyond me, coulda certainly gave 4 rounds to shogun, an 100% 3 so how so u win a 5 round fight cause i never saw no 10 -8 round from machida


----------



## SlowGraffiti (Dec 29, 2007)

Even Machida knew he lost. Did you see that shocked look on his face? Also him stuttering on his words because deep down inside he knew he did not deserve it.


----------



## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

yeah 3 rounds isn't the same as going 5. you have to prepare a bit differently for 5


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

That doesn't prevent collusion.


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

this post is just stupid...I know rua won that fight but a bussiness stand point the ufc actually lost on the decision... shogun as champs opens up the first superfight.


----------



## Shogun_Is_Champ (Jun 17, 2007)

SSD said:


> Are you seriously going to say that these casual fans know anything? They cheer for the fighter who seems to control the fight--Machida was less aggressive and moved away. Shogun was trying very hard to catch Machida and got quite a few leg kicks (not worth much) and body kicks.


Yes, because 20,000 people who just pay big money to see MMA are just casual fans idiot. And as you said Machida was running away, while Shogun kicked his legs to death.


----------



## pun (Oct 25, 2009)

Machida is a champion as well, there's no questioning that.

However, that decision was bullshit. Dana White looked confused as well.


----------



## Crester (Apr 5, 2009)

ZeroPRIDE said:


> there are atleast 5 threads about this already.......


Shows just how pissed off people are about this decision!


----------



## BouncyJones (Dec 29, 2008)

SSD said:


> Are you seriously going to say that these casual fans know anything? They cheer for the fighter who seems to control the fight--Machida was less aggressive and moved away. Shogun was trying very hard to catch Machida and got quite a few leg kicks (not worth much) and body kicks.


Octagon control is one of the criteria for judging a match, and besides, anyone who comes to bring the fight to their opponent has my respect. Otherwise, you just have gasoline and fire staring daggers at each other for five rounds.


----------



## KnockedTFO! (Feb 4, 2007)

Wombatsu said:


> Its time ppl started to send a message that if this sport is to grow to its full potential the scoring must change. Adopted from boxing this simply does not work anymore, its time for change. This is the worst decision ive seen in a long time. I buy the PPV's every month, not so anymore - The UFC needs to implement change. Shogun won that fight every day of the week and 99% of us all know it.


yep that's like robbery of the century... even the hardcorest Machida fanboys know it deep down in their heart their dude is the loser in this fight.. I'm so mad right now I could punch somebody in the mouth just because Shogun worked his ass off for that win & truely should've been the winner..Shogun fans or not know it all too...


----------



## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Dana doesn't judge fights, and neither does anyone else at the UFC. So what purpose would this serve?

Even if the UFC did have a say in the decision -- which, once again, they do not -- why would they be opposed to Shogun winning?


----------



## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

whaahh whhhah whahhh, all you babies need your diapers changed LMAO


----------



## ZeroPRIDE (Apr 12, 2006)

the least they could do to FIND the threads before making them.


----------



## blang (Jun 21, 2009)

guys to be the champ you have to beat the champ. shogun could have acted like he wanted it in the 5th round but he didn't. no to say machita did but he is the champ. this was not a hands down victory. if you think so just watch it again.


----------



## A1yola06 (Jan 5, 2007)

ZeroPRIDE said:


> there are atleast 5 threads about this already.......


yes but I feel a poll gets the point across better.


----------



## JB2037 (Aug 10, 2008)

And yeah sure out of the 20,000 people 10,000 are probably clueless, but what about the rest , cause you no real fans show up to events to bro


----------



## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

I agree that the decision was crap (and I was rooting for Machida). However, the UFC does not determine the decision. Until there is evidence that the UFC judges are biased/paid off, this idea is retarded/meaningless. 

Why boycott a promotion that has no control over the decision? 

The decision, IMO, should have been for Shogun.


----------



## ZeroPRIDE (Apr 12, 2006)

Toxic said:


> Do you understand the UFC does not decide how a fight is scored or appoint judges? Thats the athletic commissions job so boycotting the UFC would be an exercise in futility and just be a set back to the sport.


quote speaks for it self repped.


----------



## neoseeker (Jun 16, 2007)

Actually, that's not a bad idea. That was the second thing I said after WHAT, that's bs ? I'm going to take a break for awhile.


----------



## Wombatsu (Jul 10, 2006)

marcthegame said:


> this post is just stupid...I know rua won that fight but a bussiness stand point the ufc actually lost on the decision... shogun as champs opens up the first superfight.



Dude youre stupid if you think its gunna make any difference at all, you reckon its gunna make or break the UFC whether its Shogun amd Spider or not ? NO. The next big fights always just around the corner.


----------



## Godzuki (Feb 26, 2007)

blang said:


> guys to be the champ you have to beat the champ. shogun could have acted like he wanted it in the 5th round but he didn't. no to say machita did but he is the champ. this was not a hands down victory. if you think so just watch it again.


So winning 4 rounds to 1 isn't beating the champ? :confused02:


----------



## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

I was rooting for Machida and thought he would dominate, however, I thought that that Shogun won that fight easily. Something is not right here...


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> That doesn't prevent collusion.


Nor does it prevent paranoia :sarcastic12:


----------



## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

*Shogun/Machida Decision thread (Merged)*

Merged threads.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

The 5th round showed why Shogun is a warrior. He was up 3-1, and instead of coasting, he was the aggressor and won a clear final round against a Machida, whom in the face of defeat, went into a shell like a little bitch. This guy is no champion. Get the **** out of here.


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

could it be that sho gun leg kids were overuled by lyoto furys of strikes. I know sho gun kicks were vicous but lyoto had perfect octagon control everytime he was pressed up or a takedown. Although i saw that rua won, i think it was to close to call.


----------



## SniperVII (May 27, 2007)

If you want the win you cant let it go to the judges


----------



## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

I wouldn't pay to watch a lyoto shogun rematch. if lyoto wins hands down the 2nd time it just makes the first look worse because he didn't show up like he did during the first fight and still won. If shogun wins a rematch it just means he had to fight machida twice to strip him of his belt.


either way UFC looks bad. I'd try and get someone else in there to dethrone machida(again, unofficially) and have shogun work his way to take that dude on. But in due time


----------



## blang (Jun 21, 2009)

# 1. obviously he wasn't wining 4-1 and he did coast the last round both of them did. i had $30 on shogun but i think it was to close to let it go to the judges. i know there is a lot of shogun nut huggers on here but it was not a decisive victory for shogun


----------



## BouncyJones (Dec 29, 2008)

Yup, I'm the biggest Machida fan in the world. I even posted a huge nuthugging post on the "Genius of Machida" almost a year ago.

But there's no doubt which of those two fighters took the fight to the opponent and that wasn't respected in the judges' decision. I sincerely hope this goes instant rematch and not force Shogun to have to fight other opponents first.


----------



## Incantation (Nov 18, 2007)

And I just love how all Machida nuthuggers suddenly have such faith in mortal judges' infallibility..


----------



## KnockedTFO! (Feb 4, 2007)

blang said:


> guys to be the champ you have to beat the champ. shogun could have acted like he wanted it in the 5th round but he didn't. no to say machita did but he is the champ. this was not a hands down victory. if you think so just watch it again.


In response to your ignorance bias of ignoring that facts & results.... to also be a champ you should walk out of a fight with your head held high..Machida looked like he was about to cry before the decision...to be a champ you must hit & damage your opponent more if not finishing them...Machida got picked apart by Shogun & for every flurry he landed on Shogun, Shogun answered back plus more strikes that were effective...Machida's leg & ribs were so fucked up he had to switch stance & no more elusive jumping in & out after the 3rd round eh..suprised yet?...to be the champ you should'nt get boo-ed by everyone that just saw the fight right before their eyes(the fans) & know you just lost.... this fight was clearly robbery of the century!!


----------



## rnv18 (Apr 15, 2007)

all u ufc fanboys are naive if u think the ufc had nothing to do with that decision dont be dumb. clearly the ufc didnt want there new poster boy getting embarased they rode his nuts so hard and invested alot into him.


----------



## Smiley Face (Oct 5, 2009)

Did people seriously vote yes? Really?


*No.*


----------



## dvonfunk (Oct 31, 2007)

But what does a rematch prove? Especially if Shogun ends up losing? It doesn't make right what happened tonight.

Right after the fight the expressions on the faces of Machida's cornermen told the whole story. They looked like they knew they had lost the fight, especially Ed Soares. 

Meanwhile, after the decision I might be wrong but it looked and sounded like Dana told Shogun "you won" but maybe that was just wishful thinking on my part, hoping that Dana would admit that the judge's were wrong.

What a shame.


----------



## SniperVII (May 27, 2007)

Shogun_Is_Champ said:


> Wtf... He won that fight hands down. In b4 Coldcall comes in "llol no, machida won guise"


This guy is a real nut-hugger huh? Doesnt surprise me at all. But seriously if you want to win you can let it go to the judges, Shogun had the win IMO, but I cant complain I won all 4 of my bets


----------



## steelers71 (Oct 25, 2009)

UFC absolutley has a say in the decision. If the fight I saw tonight was not enough to convince otherwise then I am sorry. This was a obvious display of how a business not a sport will go to great lengths to get what it wants. I think the UFC took a huge step backwards tonight with this descion. Showgun clearly won the fight and no one knows this more than Macheatya and Dana Mcmahon...sorry I mean White.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I'm going to make a thread in the next few days breaking the fight down piece by piece as to why Machida did, in fact, win that fight. People are so amazed that someone actually did well against Machida that they are blind in the fact that he countered almost every single time Shogun kicked him, that he stuffed all of Shogun's takedowns, that he kicked and hit Shogun just as much as Shogun did to him, if not more based on counters.

Everyone is emotional right now, and they all have Joe in their mind right now being amazed about Shogun's kicks, and aren't actually thinking about the fight as a whole, where Machida landed more strikes when you combine counters and his own attacks, as well as stuffing all takedowns and moving out of the way of quite a few strikes, just not all.

If you score the fight on a whole, Machida won a very close decision.


----------



## chilo (May 27, 2007)

dafunguru said:


> SHOGUN IS DA SHIT!!!!!! ITS SO GAY, why Lyoto? someone explain the judging


its fuckin politics man....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zRZZuRgV8Y&feature=sub


----------



## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> I'm going to make a thread in the next few days breaking the fight down piece by piece as to why Machida did, in fact, win that fight. People are so amazed that someone actually did well against Machida that they are blind in the fact that he countered almost every single time Shogun kicked him, that he stuffed all of Shogun's takedowns, that he kicked and hit Shogun just as much as Shogun did to him, if not more based on counters.
> 
> Everyone is emotional right now, and they all have Joe in their mind right now being amazed about Shogun's kicks, and aren't actually thinking about the fight as a whole, where Machida landed more strikes when you combine counters and his own attacks, as well as stuffing all takedowns and moving out of the way of quite a few strikes, just not all.
> 
> If you score the fight on a whole, Machida won a very close decision.



wait til the fight numbers come out on power shots, shots landed, shots attempted and you see that shogun wins in every category except % (because he threw 10x the shots). Not to mention he was controlling the action on the offensive the whole fight while machida did nothing but run away defensively. None of Machida's shots did any real visable damage to shogun as he shrugged off or blocked almost all and Machidas legs were clearly hurt pretty bad, and he was switching stances, basically did no kicks or karate counters from the 3rd round on and seemed to have nop answer for the leg kicks ala Rampage Jackson (but ppl picked him apart, why not check them? counter??). All machida did was very weak unconvincing punches to counter that seemed to have no effect on Shogun whatsoever...


btw, when do you score alot of points with TDD???..... i love hearing that.... its like submission defense.... so if i just stuff ppl an entire fight and throw girly punches that do no damage, i too can be world champion?? Im not even emotional about this fight, i didnt have anything substantial riding on it, i just want to see the right man crowned champ, its clear who did the most damage, who landed the cleaner shots and who was controlling the pace and style of the fight, he outdid Machida at his own game and Machida had no answers for the leg kicks except running away...


----------



## dvonfunk (Oct 31, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> I'm going to make a thread in the next few days breaking the fight down piece by piece as to why Machida did, in fact, win that fight. People are so amazed that someone actually did well against Machida that they are blind in the fact that he countered almost every single time Shogun kicked him, that he stuffed all of Shogun's takedowns, that he kicked and hit Shogun just as much as Shogun did to him, if not more based on counters.
> 
> Everyone is emotional right now, and they all have Joe in their mind right now being amazed about Shogun's kicks, and aren't actually thinking about the fight as a whole, where Machida landed more strikes when you combine counters and his own attacks, as well as stuffing all takedowns and moving out of the way of quite a few strikes, just not all.
> 
> If you score the fight on a whole, Machida won a very close decision.


I am not a fighter and I am not a judge and I am not a moderator. But what I am is an educated MMA fan and have been for many years. Now granted, I have not watched the fight over again but I know what I saw and I know what I didn't see. I saw an Shogun backing Machida up the whole fight while landing much more flush, impactful and damaging shots for 4 and possibly 5 of the 5 rounds. He picked Machida apart, his timing was tremendous, and Machida didn't have an answer. I did NOT see a unanimous decision win for Machida. Shogun met all of the criteria to win that decision and I don't care what anyone says. But again, I am not a judge and I am not a Moderator so really, what do I and 99% of the people on this forum know?


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

alizio said:


> wait til the fight numbers come out on power shots, shots landed, shots attempted and you see that shogun wins in every category except % (because he threw 10x the shots). Not to mention he was controlling the action on the offensive the whole fight while machida did nothing but run away defensively. None of Machida's shots did any real visable damage to shogun as he shrugged off or blocked almost all and Machidas legs were clearly hurt pretty bad, and he was switching stances, basically did no kicks or karate counters from the 3rd round on and seemed to have nop answer for the leg kicks ala Rampage Jackson (but ppl picked him apart, why not check them? counter??). All machida did was very weak unconvincing punches to counter that seemed to have no effect on Shogun whatsoever...
> 
> 
> btw, when do you score alot of points with TDD???..... i love hearing that.... its like submission defense.... so if i just stuff ppl an entire fight and throw girly punches that do no damage, i too can be world champion?? Im not even emotional about this fight, i didnt have anything substantial riding on it, i just want to see the right man crowned champ, its clear who did the most damage, who landed the cleaner shots and who was controlling the pace and style of the fight, he outdid Machida at his own game and Machida had no answers for the leg kicks except running away...


Actually, he did damage Shogun. Shogun's ribs and chest were completely red, the same as Machida. Instead of listening to Joe talk about how red Machida's side is, why don't you look for yourself and notice that Shogun's entire body was beat red? So, visible damage? There you go.

Power shots could have gone to Shogun, although Shogun was rocked twice in that fight, yes, he was, when Shogun went for a kick Machida rocked him twice with counters, where as Machida didn't get rocked at all.

The TDD I mentioned was based on the fact that Shogun could not take him down, and was thrown off easily. If you shoot for a takedown, then get tossed off easily, the points should not go to the guy attempting the takedown, they should go to the guy who defended it very easily.

Machida, overal, if you combine his strikes, counters, etc, landed more shots than Shogun, most of them were not as powerful, but they were more, and Machida avoided many and rocked Shogun at least twice(not rock like Fedor was rocked, but stunned and hit really hard) by Machida's counters.

Machida won that fight, it was very close, very close, but he pulled out the win.


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

No rematch needed , machida doesn't deserve one yet. Let him work his way up with some fights then maybe get another shot at shogun.


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

SSD said:


> Are you seriously going to say that these casual fans know anything? They cheer for the fighter who seems to control the fight--Machida was less aggressive and moved away. Shogun was trying very hard to catch Machida and got quite a few leg kicks (not worth much) and body kicks.


Are you being serious right now? "Few" is an understatement... I can go on about how much damage Shogun did to Lyoto but judging your avatar I don't even need to say much.


----------



## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

Michael Carson said:


> I'm going to make a thread in the next few days breaking the fight down piece by piece as to why Machida did, in fact, win that fight. People are so amazed that someone actually did well against Machida that they are blind in the fact that he countered almost every single time Shogun kicked him, that he stuffed all of Shogun's takedowns, that he kicked and hit Shogun just as much as Shogun did to him, if not more based on counters.
> 
> Everyone is emotional right now, and they all have Joe in their mind right now being amazed about Shogun's kicks, and aren't actually thinking about the fight as a whole, where Machida landed more strikes when you combine counters and his own attacks, as well as stuffing all takedowns and moving out of the way of quite a few strikes, just not all.
> 
> If you score the fight on a whole, Machida won a very close decision.


You're my dude, but no amount of breakdown is gonna convince me that Machida won that fight.


----------



## Sphoeninx (Oct 25, 2009)

Yup. Dana should act on this one decisively, IT CERTAINLY CAUSED A FUROR AMONG MMA FANS ALL OVER THE WORLD... and the reputation of the UFC 'judges' is at a stake. 

DANA WHITE - A QUICK REMATCH PLEASE....


----------



## name goes here (Aug 15, 2007)

Shoguns kicks were harder. It is annoying when Joe starts talking over and it's harder to observe properly. But still Shoguns kicks to the body and legs > Machida's mostly blocked, not particulerly phasing strikes to the face, and few body kicks.

But, I don't want to see an instant rematch, I'd like to see Machida fight someone else. Can Shogun fight Anderson?


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

D.P. said:


> You're my dude, but no amount of breakdown is gonna convince me that Machida won that fight.


How would you even convince that machida won? All he did was "survive" for 5 rounds... I have defended Machida before.. heck was even repped by ColdCall for defending Machida against Shogun. I really thought it would be a slaughter for Machida. But if you look at the fight in mute(You cant hear crap at the bar).. you'd see shogun won. He couldn't even stop those leg kicks and did no damage that put Shogun in danger. The one flurry Machida did, Shogun stopped with a right hook thus causing Machida to clinch/hug up... Ugh this fight was so disappointing... Oh well.. I guess I won my points betting on Machida.. but I will never underestimate Shogun again.

Thats the old Shogun we saw tonight. Sad that he had to lose it to a fluke decision.


----------



## SageFire (Oct 25, 2009)

I agree with you. Did you see the look on Machida's face?? HE WAS SURPRISED HE WON! I know the judges' decision is final....but come on!! Machida was not only being punished throughout the fight, he really did appear to be in pain with every leg kick to the legs and body. I'm still shaking my head at the final decision, and so is my husband. But OH WELL. Don't let the judges decide for you! Finish the fight and win it...otherwise, you could get screwed!


----------



## Mjr (Apr 22, 2007)

Mike Carson, No offense mate, but you are way off in your last few posts. 

I like to go against the grain sometimes, but this is a complete and utter **** up. (the decision)

I feel really sorry for Machida, he cares lots about his fans, but when he got booed off tonight he looked really down.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

D.P. said:


> You're my dude, but no amount of breakdown is gonna convince me that Machida won that fight.


That's cool, I don't expect many to agree with me tonight, as emotions are high in most people.

The fact is, Machida landed more strikes, whether they were harder or not, and he stuffed all of his takedowns easily, and he avoided quite a few of Shogun's attacks other than the hard kicks, and at the end of the fight, shogun was just as red as Machida when it came to damage.

I see a very close decision that Machida won via more strikes landed and ability to stuff all of Shogun's takedowns with ease.


----------



## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

No instant rematch, let him beat Evans like Machida did to EARN it. Cry all youwant he lost...lost..LOST


----------



## name goes here (Aug 15, 2007)

Yeah PRIDE SHOGUN IS BACK!

I don't want to see a rematch, I want to see Shogun fight Anderson, and Machida can fight Rashad or something.


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

MC.. I dont see how Machida landed more strikes. If you look at the replay's, alot of it was parried(like that one flurry he did and quickly stopped when Shogun hit him with the right hook).

I'm a Machida fan and have laughed at everyone that picked Shogun in this fight before. Look it up in my post history. Heck, it wasn't even close. Shogun won that so convincingly.


----------



## Mjr (Apr 22, 2007)

Yeah either way, Shogun is back and another scary prospect in the LHW division.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

He countered everytime Shogun went inside. People were so hyped up on Shogun's kicks, they did not see Machida's 1-2 punches to Shogun's head everytime he went to attack, other than the ones where Machida circled away, that is. Not to mention he went on the attack himself a few times, where Shogun didn't counter very often(he did a few times via throwing a kick right after Machida did, but not many times).

He landed the overal more strikes, although Shogun had harder kicks.

As far as the flurry, Machida won that entire exchagne up until the right hand, when Machida decided to move away.


----------



## Smiley Face (Oct 5, 2009)

There you have it Dana just said at the press conference. Looks like we are getting a rematch.


----------



## roboyobo (May 28, 2007)

Shogun got robbed. I'm rewatched the first 3 rounds dont see how Machida won all 3. I dont see how the judges missed all those kicks machida was taking. i guess leg kicks dont count much on the scoring cards.


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

MC but the one time he did a flurry, most of it was flurried except maybe 1-2 punches. A flurry is a funny thing, it looks exciting and if you're cheering for that particular fighter, it would look like he landed all of them or did alot of damage. But he didn't.

It's bad when a bar filled with Machida fans also felt he didn't win. In fact the bar I went to, didn't even know who Rua was. Machida looked lost on what to do with Rua. There's a huge reason why Rua became more and more confident and it wasn't because Machida outstruck him. There's no way he got outstruck.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Actually, he landed many, they showed the flurry a second time on the replay and he landed the majority of the punches.

People got so excited over his kicks, they stopped watching his counters, in which he landed many. Machida's corner kept saying you are doing fine, you are doing well, just keep your space, you are doing fine. The reason they said that is because he was winning, he was countering often and landed the majority of strikes.

Regardless of what people say, and how hard this "Shogun was robbed" wagon is being pushed, all the judges scored it for Machida based on more strikes landed and his ability to shrug Shogun off easily everytime.

It was a CLOSE fight, Shogun did great, a lot better than I thought, but the fight as a whole he lost.


----------



## lvkyle (Sep 7, 2008)

So UFC is the NEW boxing when it comes to judging.
Judging and robbery is why I stopped watching boxing.

Will people stop watching UFC if decisions are crap? Yes they will, look what happened to boxing.

I don't understand how you can spend millions of dollars on a promotion then **** up when it comes to who judges the fight and how they judge it. I am from Las Vegas, and my best answer is judging is fixed, just like refereeing is in other big sports.
When money is on the line, honesty is out the window. It always comes down to the money in business, and judges are in the business of making money, as are all people. It's just to good of odds for judges to bet money on a fight. And now with the Internet, sports betting is easier and more discreet than ever.

I say fire them and make an example out of them. If they don't fire them, then we as voters need to vote out whoever appoints these clowns to the commission, send certified letters, ect.

Otherwise it's business as usual, and I will see you at the next bullshit corrupt decision.


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

I guess I can chalk this up to.. one perception of winning the fight differently. I'm always opened to every decision. I personally can't see how Machida won the fight. He did almost to no damage to Machida. It was mainly because of his not effective flurry that probably won the fight.

Effective striking can be viewed differently. I saw Shogun having an answer to every punch Machida threw and it did more damage. It was obvious in the fight that Machida was hurting from ribs and legs. He stopped being mobile at the 4th round.

I'd hate to pull this card.. but I'll just say this. I'm pretty sure if it was the opposite in which Shogun was Machida tonight.. and was getting hit by those leg kicks and body kicks, everyone on this forum would say Machida got robbed.


----------



## SageFire (Oct 25, 2009)

They both have such a different style of fighting. Rua became more confident when he saw that Machida was being affected by all those leg kicks! I believe Machida to be an EXCELLENT fighter. It definitely looked like Machida was surprised he won. It was hard to see an excellent fighter get Boos. When the judges have the final say, most times it's disputed weather the judges were watching the same fight. It's never satisfying!


----------



## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

Idk, maybe i'm still a bit shocked and bothered by the decision....but that made me think of boxing as well. One of the main reasons why I hate boxing. Please please please let's not let mma get like that. ray02:


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

SageFire said:


> They both have such a different style of fighting. Rua became more confident when he saw that Machida was being affected by all those leg kicks! I believe Machida to be an EXCELLENT fighter. It definitely looked like Machida was surprised he won. It was hard to see an excellent fighter get Boos. When the judges have the final say, most times it's disputed weather the judges were watching the same fight. It's never satisfying!


I never ever thought Shogun would even come close to winning. I came in there with bias... I sh^tted on anyone that said Shogun would win. I'm severely humbled after this fight. At anytime I would interject and defend the decision.. but I really don't see it. Sorry to all the Machida fans. But to deny that it shouldn't have been a unanimous decision by Machida, that just means crazy nut hugging.


----------



## SageFire (Oct 25, 2009)

Notoriousxpinoy said:


> I'd hate to pull this card.. but I'll just say this. I'm pretty sure if it was the opposite in which Shogun was Machida tonight.. and was getting hit by those leg kicks and body kicks, everyone on this forum would say Machida got robbed.


Like I said...It's never satisfying. You're right!


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

lvkyle said:


> So UFC is the NEW boxing when it comes to judging.
> Judging and robbery is why I stopped watching boxing.
> 
> Will people stop watching UFC if decisions are crap? Yes they will, look what happened to boxing.
> ...


Money is on the line in EVERY pro sport. Therefore by your logic they are all fixed. LOL.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Notoriousxpinoy said:


> I guess I can chalk this up to.. one perception of winning the fight differently. I'm always opened to every decision. I personally can't see how Machida won the fight. He did almost to no damage to Machida. It was mainly because of his not effective flurry that probably won the fight.
> 
> Effective striking can be viewed differently. I saw Shogun having an answer to every punch Machida threw and it did more damage. It was obvious in the fight that Machida was hurting from ribs and legs. He stopped being mobile at the 4th round.
> 
> I'd hate to pull this card.. but I'll just say this. I'm pretty sure if it was the opposite in which Shogun was Machida tonight.. and was getting hit by those leg kicks and body kicks, everyone on this forum would say Machida got robbed.


Shogun didn't counter as much as Machida did.

The basic way this fight went was this:

Total strikes vs. power of the strikes. This has been done in many fights and is completely debatable. Machida landed more, Shogun landed harder(except when Machida rocked him a little two times). The thing that pushed Machida over the edge for the win was him being able to stuff all of Shogun's takedowns easily. Stuffing a takedown with ease is saying "I can control where this fight goes, you cannot take me down", and judges score that, especially when you defend a takedown without even being close to being taken down.

It was a very close decision, I'm not saying it was clear Machida won, but if you break it down as a whole, not just damage and kicks, Machida did more in that fight than Shogun did, which is why the judges put him as the winner.

To the visible eye, Shogun won via more damage and hard kicks, to the actual scoring system and to the technical side(counters, control, total strikes landed) Machida won.

That's just how it was, and how it is.


----------



## Sphoeninx (Oct 25, 2009)

I agree definitely. All these threads must continue for sometime so they would know how serious it was. It is business anyway. UFC should care about what people feel and what they are talking about. Judges are also getting paid by whom, generally by people watching those shows.... they should be worth it. They always get away with it even in boxing matches, nobody chases them away as if it is a given fact of life. Come on, judges are paid, be worth of it......


----------



## SageFire (Oct 25, 2009)

Notoriousxpinoy said:


> I never ever thought Shogun would even come close to winning. I came in there with bias... I sh^tted on anyone that said Shogun would win. I'm severely humbled after this fight. At anytime I would interject and defend the decision.. but I really don't see it. Sorry to all the Machida fans. But to deny that it shouldn't have been a unanimous decision by Machida, that just means crazy nut hugging.



Hun, I was rooting for Rua... That doesn't mean I don't think Machida is a great fighter. I wish this fight could have been more definitive with a K.O. or a submission (a submission in this fight is wishful thinking, and most unlikely) Just to have the satisfaction that it didn't go to the judges.


----------



## MrSkark (Nov 10, 2008)

**** that! he should show the fans some respect and do something about overturning the decision. Something like this should never happen again. it was an absolute disgrace.


----------



## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

This talk of robbery baffles me two fights come to mind that mirror this fight chuck vrs Jardine, Belcher vrs Akiama both fights had a fighter dominating in leg kicks both fights had different outcomes with the judges all this talk about Shogun dominating is BS.


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

SageFire said:


> Like I said...It's never satisfying. You're right!


If the shoe was on the other foot...

This fight reminds me of the Pacquio fight with Marquez.. Everyone knew Pacman lost.. but was given the win..

I'm a huge Pacman fight(Filipino here). Even I thought he lost. So there's no bias here. It feels like every Machida fan just had so much bias on how effective his striking was(To even say he out struck Shogun is reaching), it's ridiculous.


----------



## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

Notoriousxpinoy said:


> If the shoe was on the other foot...
> 
> This fight reminds me of the Pacquio fight with Marquez.. Everyone knew Pacman lost.. but was given the win..
> 
> I'm a huge Pacman fight(Filipino here). Even I thought he lost. So there's no bias here. It feels like every Machida fan just had so much bias on how effective his striking was(To even say he out struck Shogun is reaching), it's ridiculous.


please read my above post thinking he outstruck shogun is not reaching sheesh


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Who cares about a rematch? Shogun shouldn't have to fight again to get what he already won.


----------



## lvkyle (Sep 7, 2008)

HexRei said:


> Money is on the line in EVERY pro sport. Therefore by your logic they are all fixed. LOL.


LOL? Look at baseball, basketball, football, why don't you search wiki, all major sports have had scandals with cheating. I'm not saying every fight/game is fixed, I'm saying it's obvious to anyone who isn't a moron that it's going on, so don't be ignorant.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

jeffmantx said:


> This talk of robbery baffles me two fights come to mind that mirror this fight chuck vrs Jardine, Belcher vrs Akiama both fights had a fighter dominating in leg kicks both fights had different outcomes with the judges all this talk about Shogun dominating is BS.


Bad analogy. This fighters were landing clean punches and got worked by putter pat shit. 

Shogun landed more kicks AND landed cleaner.


----------



## dvonfunk (Oct 31, 2007)

According to the poll about 80% of the people feel that the judges' decision was incorrect. So I guess if we were the judges then Shogun would've won that fight. I'm willing to bet that 80% of the people who took that poll are not avid Shogun fans with money on the fight. I know I'm not particularly fond of either fighter, I didn't have money on either fighter, and I really didn't care who won and I still think Shogun was robbed. 

The scoring system is flawed and the judges are human beings. Human beings can be influenced by outside sources. If anything, it's a wonder that there aren't more bad decisions like the one we witnessed tonight.


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> Shogun didn't counter as much as Machida did.
> 
> The basic way this fight went was this:
> 
> ...


Again.. Even in total strikes they were pretty even. Heck I would even say Shogun landed more. Sorry to burst your bubble but Machida was also hurt by those leg kicks multiple times. Look at his gait and tell me it wasn't noticeably different at the 3rd+ rounds. Second, like I said before Machida threw alot of punches but not as many landed as you seem to think they did. Did you see how Shogun was blocking those punches and the style he was blocking them by? All of his flurries must have hit the forearm more than it hit the face.


----------



## SageFire (Oct 25, 2009)

Notoriousxpinoy said:


> If the shoe was on the other foot...
> 
> This fight reminds me of the Pacquio fight with Marquez.. Everyone knew Pacman lost.. but was given the win..
> 
> I'm a huge Pacman fight(Filipino here). Even I thought he lost. So there's no bias here. It feels like every Machida fan just had so much bias on how effective his striking was(To even say he out struck Shogun is reaching), it's ridiculous.


I meant, It's never satisfying when it goes to the judges. I personally feel that Rua had it. I feel that he wasn't in the discomfort (putting it lightly) that Machida was in.


----------



## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

MrSkark said:


> **** that! he should show the fans some respect and do something about overturning the decision. Something like this should never happen again. it was an absolute disgrace.


Its not Danas decision to overturn. Scoring, reffing, drug testing, overturning shit, are all responsibilities of the state atheltic comissions. The UFC picks the fights, the athletic comissions govern them.


----------



## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Bad analogy. This fighters were landing clean punches and got worked by putter pat shit.
> 
> Shogun landed more kicks AND landed cleaner.


the analogy was comparing the scoring of effective leg kicks in fights don't tell me it was bad. IT shows that leg kick damage versus effective striking can be judged in different ways.


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Well, **** the athletics commission. They need some new judges and this has been an issue for awhile now. Maybe it's time to get a commission to monitor the athletics commission.


----------



## SageFire (Oct 25, 2009)

Notoriousxpinoy said:


> Again.. Even in total strikes they were pretty even. Heck I would even say Shogun landed more. Sorry to burst your bubble but Machida was also hurt by those leg kicks multiple times. Look at his gait and tell me it wasn't noticeably different at the 3rd+ rounds. Second, like I said before Machida threw alot of punches but not as many landed as you seem to think they did. Did you see how Shogun was blocking those punches and the style he was blocking them by? All of his flurries must have hit the forearm more than it hit the face.


It looked like Machida had a little hitch in his giddy up towards the end. He was definitely feeling those leg kicks. 

In the end, it is what it is. My personal oppinion is, I thought Rua had won it.


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

jeffmantx said:


> please read my above post thinking he outstruck shogun is not reaching sheesh


Look at your signature just proved my point. Thanks again. And I never pulled that card ever. I came in there a Machida fan and left as a Shogun defender(Still not convinced yet as I do think Rashad will destroy Shogun). I want to see the stats of this fight. I'm almost positive that Shogun outstruck him.

And since you asked me to read your post. Read this one part.. I'm sure if the shoe was on the other feet and Shogun was getting kicked in the body and legs like Machida. Everyone(including you) would think it'd be ridiculous that Shogun won. Am I right?


----------



## MrSkark (Nov 10, 2008)

joshua7789 said:


> Its not Danas decision to overturn. Scoring, reffing, drug testing, overturning shit, are all responsibilities of the state atheltic comissions. The UFC picks the fights, the athletic comissions govern them.


I am aware of this. Lets be fair though he really should be making a bigger deal over something that could ruin his business. I am also aware of the fact that a rematch *will* be a massive sell but for me personally the UFC has lost a lot of its credibility tonight.


----------



## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

I am sure Dana is as pissed off as some of us are and I'm sure he knows Shogun won!

If I were in Shogun's camp, I would make a petition of sorts and ask the athletic commission to review the fight and overturn the decision.

But back on topic, at least Shogun will have another shot at beating Lyoto.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Notoriousxpinoy said:


> Again.. Even in total strikes they were pretty even. Heck I would even say Shogun landed more. Sorry to burst your bubble but Machida was also hurt by those leg kicks multiple times. Look at his gait and tell me it wasn't noticeably different at the 3rd+ rounds. Second, like I said before Machida threw alot of punches but not as many landed as you seem to think they did. Did you see how Shogun was blocking those punches and the style he was blocking them by? All of his flurries must have hit the forearm more than it hit the face.


Machida landed more total strikes if you take counters into the question as well as his own strikes(going after Shogun out of counters). Shogun hurt Machida, I never said he didn't. If you look at the fight based on damage and and power, Shogun won. I'm not here saying that it's clear Machida won, or that it can't be called Shogun for winning, what I am saying is that the judges based it off more strikes landed, being able to control the fight(he backed off like he does in every fight, and stuffed all of Shogun's takedowns with ease).

Shogun could have won, it was a very close fight, but the judges scored it for Machida based on total strikes landed and his ability to stuff all of Shogun's takedowns easily.

Very close decision for Machida, there is nothing "wrong" with it, he did land more strikes and he did control where the fight took place, which is a big deal in judge eyes.


----------



## Smiley Face (Oct 5, 2009)

MagiK11 said:


> I am sure Dana is as pissed off as some of us are and I'm sure he knows Shogun won!
> 
> If I were in Shogun's camp, I would make a petition of sorts and ask the athletic commission to review the fight and overturn the decision.
> 
> But back on topic, at least Shogun will have another shot at beating Lyoto.


Nice avatar lol. :thumbsup:


----------



## thedude86 (Jun 22, 2007)

This is ridiculous someone needs to be held accountable for this. For all we know it could even be people that are higher up than Dana that influenced this shit, but ill tell you one thing someone is pulling the judges strings to get a decision like this. The fact that it was unanimous and all the judges scored it the exact same way in itself is pretty shady. Its like everyone at Zuffa is all of a sudden real quite about how lopsided this decision was, it doesnt add up.


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> Machida landed more total strikes if you take counters into the question as well as his own strikes(going after Shogun out of counters). Shogun hurt Machida, I never said he didn't. If you look at the fight based on damage and and power, Shogun won. I'm not here saying that it's clear Machida won, or that it can't be called Shogun for winning, what I am saying is that the judges based it off more strikes landed, being able to control the fight(he backed off like he does in every fight, and stuffed all of Shogun's takedowns with ease).
> 
> Shogun could have won, it was a very close fight, but the judges scored it for Machida based on total strikes landed and his ability to stuff all of Shogun's takedowns easily.
> 
> Very close decision for Machida, there is nothing "wrong" with it, he did land more strikes and he did control where the fight took place, which is a big deal in judge eyes.


Oh I'm not knocking your opinion. You actually make good intelligent arguments. . Anyways, I personally was shocked at Shogun's performance tonight(I really thought it'd be over before I finished my first beer ).

Someone did call me on the drive home saying that even in the post conference apparently Machida's dad and A.Silva thought Shogun won that fight. It is what it is though.

I personally see more strikes landing for Shogun.


----------



## Brand X (Oct 15, 2006)

Isn't bad judging, part of what brought down boxing?:confused02:


----------



## Smiley Face (Oct 5, 2009)

*Welcome to the Machida Era!*



(Sorry... Couldn't resist)


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Notoriousxpinoy said:


> Oh I'm not knocking your opinion. You actually make good intelligent arguments. . Anyways, I personally was shocked at Shogun's performance tonight(I really thought it'd be over before I finished my first beer ).
> 
> Someone did call me on the drive home saying that even in the post conference apparently Machida's dad and A.Silva thought Shogun won that fight. It is what it is though.
> 
> I personally see more strikes landing for Shogun.


Well, Shogun did an amazing job tonight. I was in no way expecting it to go like that. 

As I said, Shogun did a lot of damage and did land a lot of strikes and hard ones at that. The difference is Machida landed more(you don't agree, but Shogun mainly landed those 1 shot kicks, and a lot of the time Machida countered), and his ability to control where the fight went, pushed him over for the W.

The thing that bugs me is that people act as if this was some dominating win for Shogun, when in reality it was very close and the judges scored it based on control and total strikes. It's just how they did it. If they would have done it for damage and how hard the strikes were, it would have gone to Shogun.

Anywho, I love Machida, I think everyone knows that, but I was the first person to fully eat crow for BJ vs. GSP as well as Rampage vs. Forrest. 

It's how I, a few others, and the judges scored it.

You're one of a million who thinks Shogun won, no problems, as it was very close.


----------



## MooJuice (Dec 12, 2008)

Finnsidious said:


> One reason it looks bad is because Rua finished strong and Lyoto faded. Machida won the first 3 rounds and lost the last 2 in the judges eyes, so he still won, but Shogun finished so much stronger, it looks worse than it is.


shogun won rounds 1 and 2 so f**king decisively it wasnt even funny. i was with 3 other people, all of us machida fans, and we all knew that round 1 and 2 went to shogun without a shred of doubt. round 3 went to machida, and 4 and 5 went to shogun.

shogun won 4 of the 5 rounds - how they can say that he only won 2 of the 5 is so f**king rediculous, if this was soccer cecil peoples et al would need an armoured car and swat team escort out of there; that was ******* horrendous.

everybody who agrees that shogun got the win should absolutely be emailing and asking the judges to be sacked.

send ur emails to

[email protected]

demand that they be ******* sacked; they deserve no less.

i feel for shogun and his pregnant wife...that was the worst robbing i have ever seen in my 5 year history in this sport.

f*ck those judges. f*ck them hard. i am raging so goddamn badly i want to kill something right now.


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Since MC keeps bringing up the "facts" of what happened in this fight, I figured I'd link you guys to the Fightmetric page for the fight: Click :thumbsup:


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

dvonfunk said:


> According to the poll about 80% of the people feel that the judges' decision was incorrect. So I guess if we were the judges then Shogun would've won that fight.


I don't have any faith at all in the random casual MMA fan's opinion of scoring.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Not sure what to say, all I can tell you is what I, a few others, and 3 professional judges who do this for a living watched. Everytime Shogun went for a kick, the majority of them were countered, as well as the TDD coming into play.

That's just how it is.


----------



## SageFire (Oct 25, 2009)

All I can do now is wait for Vera to get in the octagon!  I pray that one doesn't go to the judges!!!


----------



## SageFire (Oct 25, 2009)

Michael and Notoriousxpinoy....I'll have a beer ready for you boys  (but I'll probably drink both anyways)


----------



## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

Smiley Face said:


> Nice avatar lol. :thumbsup:


Thanks lol


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> Since MC keeps bringing up the "facts" of what happened in this fight, I figured I'd link you guys to the Fightmetric page for the fight: Click :thumbsup:


Wow, guess I was wrong. I gave shogun all 5 rounds, after looking at the data machida did win round 3. 

Still a pretty obvious win for shogun.


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> Not sure what to say, all I can tell you is what I, a few others, and 3 professional judges who do this for a living watched. Everytime Shogun went for a kick, the majority of them were countered, as well as the TDD coming into play.
> 
> That's just how it is.


I hope you realize that these "professional judges" do not score mainly MMA events for a living.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Regardless, that is their job. The almost always score fights correctly. It isn't often there is a bad call, and from what I saw, it was a very close fight that could go either way based on how you scored it, and how they scored it went to Machida.


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

"Goldberg "How about instant rematch?" "

How bout Goldberg sticks to reading slogans and factoids off of cards?


----------



## SageFire (Oct 25, 2009)

MikeHawk said:


> I hope you realize that these "professional judges" do not score mainly MMA events for a living.


I'm glad we leave it up to the "professionals". Looking at the data, it's clear. Machida got it. 

I personally thought Shogun had won it. But I'm in no way a professional. I might not always agree or like it, but it was a fair call.


----------



## the1nicko (Oct 25, 2009)

it would be unsportsmanlike for Shogun to start complaining about his loss. He has to take it for what it is and do better next time. He is lucky he is getting a rematch. I think Shogun should have won the fight by points but I dont think either deserve the belt by their performances.


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> Regardless, that is their job. The almost always score fights correctly. It isn't often there is a bad call, and from what I saw, it was a very close fight that could go either way based on how you scored it, and how they scored it went to Machida.


And if they scored it for Machida then they should obviously stay away from scoring MMA. If it was such a close fight you wouldn't have so many people saying Shogun won. There's almost no one saying Machida won this fight. Dana White thinks shogun won Joe Rogan thinks Shogun won just about the entire crowd watching that fight thought Shogun won. These stats clearly show Shogun winning. http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html

What's this talk of "based on how you scored it"? There shouldn't be any difference from the way two judges score a fight and if you're scoring a fight differently from someone else then someones doing it wrong.


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> Regardless, that is their job. The almost always score fights correctly. It isn't often there is a bad call, and from what I saw, it was a very close fight that could go either way based on how you scored it, and how they scored it went to Machida.


Don't forget to check out the fightmetric page: http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html


----------



## Smiley Face (Oct 5, 2009)

*Hopefully we'll see THIS in the rematch:*


----------



## MMA Fan 101 (Mar 7, 2009)

does anyone have a link to the video post fight conference ?


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> Since MC keeps bringing up the "facts" of what happened in this fight, I figured I'd link you guys to the Fightmetric page for the fight: Click :thumbsup:


See this is what I saw.. I clearly don't see the striking even remotely going to Machida's side. I'm sorry I just don't. I thought he won the exchange clearly.

Now I wasn't saying it was a domination(It was pretty much a boring fight and very technical). But even as closed as it was. It was always to Shogun's favor...


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

MikeHawk said:


> And if they scored it for Machida then they should obviously stay away from scoring MMA. If it was such a close fight you wouldn't have so many people saying Shogun won. There's almost no one saying Machida won this fight. Dana White thinks shogun won Joe Rogan thinks Shogun won just about the entire crowd watching that fight thought Shogun won. These stats clearly show Shogun winning. http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html
> 
> What's this talk of "based on how you scored it"? There shouldn't be any difference from the way two judges score a fight and if you're scoring a fight differently from someone else then someones doing it wrong.


They scored it on control(the fight took place where Machida wanted it, as he easily stuffed all of Shogun's takedowns), and they scored it on countering and strikes. 

That website is all fine and dandy, but at the end of the day, judges who do this for a living, along with myself and others(I am the only one voicing my opinion here, there are more than just me), saw it as a very close decision that if scored based on control and strikes, Machida won it.

That's what I saw, that's what 3 professional judges saw, that's what some MMA fans saw.



wukkadb said:


> Don't forget to check out the fightmetric page: http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html


Already looked at it.


----------



## Londrovic (Oct 25, 2009)

Hello everyone.I wasn't planing on joining the forum yet but this decision is what made me do it.My name is Stefan and i have been lurking the forum at least for 3 months now so i know some stuff about some of you.

Ok so what i joined for is to express my opinion that Shogun won this fight and there is no doubt in my mind about that.Be aware that i was not a huge fan of Shogun or Machida before and neither while watching the fight.Sure I watched some of their fights and HL-s but i wasn't biased at all while watching.

I want to say Michael i think while you claim that many of us on "Shoguns side" are very emotional right now and can't see the fight fact objectively i think that you are really the one that is much more emotional right now with a few more Machida fans because you are in shock that your favorite (or one of your favorites) fighters was outperformed by a huge underdog and you are looking at the matter subjectively.Don't take this the wrong way I am not bashing your opinion in any way.That is just my opinion on the matter.

MY OPINION:
As the stats and everyone and their sparing partner and urine drinking father say Shogun has won this fight.

The most honorable thing left to do by Machida (I have no idea if this is possible) is to somehow give over the belt to Shogun or to just abandon it and take part in competition for it again.

Its 9:30 am and i haven't slept at all I apologise for any mistakes I made in writing this or if i sounded stupid in any part of this post.And i apologise for my bad English, I am still learning it.


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> They scored it on control(the fight took place where Machida wanted it, as he easily stuffed all of Shogun's takedowns), and they scored it on countering and strikes.
> 
> That website is all fine and dandy, but at the end of the day, *judges who do this for a living*, along with myself and others(I am the only one voicing my opinion here, there are more than just me), saw it as a very close decision that if scored based on control and strikes, Machida won it.
> 
> ...


I wished you didn't use that as an arguement.. because you know the flaw in that.. 

And also.. IM PRETTY SURE NOW MORE THAN EVER THAT IF IT WAS ON THE OTHER SHOE. EVERYONE INCLUDING YOU WOULD CRY FOUL ABOUT A DECISION. IF MACHIDA FOUGHT LIKE SHOGUN AND VICE VERSA.. YOU WOULD PUT SO MUCH POINTS ON HOW MACHIDA WON AND IT WASN'T EVEN CLOSE. I'm posting about this particular fight because I am a Machida fan and thought Shogun was overated but I'm man enough to admit that Machida didn't deserve the win. I'm sorry but it is what it is. I made the mistake and said all those stuff about Shogun have 0, zero, nada of a chance to win.


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> They scored it on control(the fight took place where Machida wanted it, as he easily stuffed all of Shogun's takedowns), and they scored it on countering and strikes.
> 
> That website is all fine and dandy, but at the end of the day, judges who do this for a living, along with myself and others(I am the only one voicing my opinion here, there are more than just me), saw it as a very close decision that if scored based on control and strikes, Machida won it.
> 
> ...


Apparently even the man who was in the cage with shogun himself is wrong in thinking he lost as well, right?

and as Notorious pointed out your argument of "they do this for a living" is completely invalid because they do not score mma bouts for a living. They work for the athletics commission for a living. There's a big difference.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Other than very few bad decisions, there is no flaw. If I agree with their decision if they scored it how I said, and if others, although not the majority, agreed on how they scored it, then it can't all be wrong, right?

Majority doesn't mean right, Majority means Majority.

It could have gone either way, and the majority of fans aren't happy, but professional judges as well as other mma fans agree with how it was scored. It's not wrong, it's how it is.


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> They scored it on control(the fight took place where Machida wanted it, as he easily stuffed all of Shogun's takedowns), and they scored it on countering and strikes.
> 
> That website is all fine and dandy, but at the end of the day, judges who do this for a living, along with myself and others(I am the only one voicing my opinion here, there are more than just me), saw it as a very close decision that if scored based on control and strikes, Machida won it.
> 
> ...


What happened to:


MC said:


> Total strikes vs. power of the strikes. This has been done in many fights and is completely debatable. Machida landed more, Shogun landed harder(except when Machida rocked him a little two times).


And how is defending 4 takedowns over the span of 25 minutes equal controlling the whole fight? To me it looked like Shogun was the one pressing forward, and Machida looked gased in the later rounds, not Shogun.


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> What happened to:
> 
> 
> And how is defending 4 takedowns over the span of 25 minutes equal controlling the whole fight? To me it looked like Shogun was the one pressing forward, and Machida looked gased in the later rounds, not Shogun.


I thought attempting take downs scored more for the person who attempted them even when they fail to get the take down? :confused02:


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

wukkadb said:


> What happened to:
> 
> 
> And how is defending 4 takedowns over the span of 25 minutes equal controlling the whole fight? To me it looked like Shogun was the one pressing forward, and Machida looked gased in the later rounds, not Shogun.


I can't tell you how the stie got those numbers, as me and 3 judges and other MMA fans saw Machida counter most of the time Shogun tried to land his kicks.

Also, Machida was backing away(what Machida does in every fight), as well as countering, so the reason why defending a few takedowns in a fight matters is because Shogun tried to get it to the ground and Machida had no part of it, easily defended, which would be controlling the fight by keeping it standing.


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> Other than very few bad decisions, there is no flaw. If I agree with their decision if they scored it how I said, and if others, although not the majority, agreed on how they scored it, then it can't all be wrong, right?
> 
> Majority doesn't mean right, Majority means Majority.
> 
> It could have gone either way, and the majority of fans aren't happy, but professional judges as well as other mma fans agree with how it was scored. It's not wrong, it's how it is.


Lol, you said there is no flaw? That alone completely invalidates any argument you can put forth. There is most definetly a flaw in the system and if you can't see that then It's no wonder you can't see how Machida lost.

The nuthuggery emitting from you is just to much to allow you to see the truth. I feel for you.


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> What happened to:
> 
> 
> And how is defending 4 takedowns over the span of 25 minutes equal controlling the whole fight? To me it looked like Shogun was the one pressing forward, and Machida looked gased in the later rounds, not Shogun.


Basically what I've been trying to say. First MC says he outstruck Shogun and how the points were scored based on his "effective" striking. So.. here's what happened apparantly:

Shogun lost even though he OUTLANDED AND OUTPOWERED him in strikes.. OH wait.. Machida also defended those takedowns.. I didn't know that meant control.. lol..



Michael Carson said:


> I can't tell you how the stie got those numbers, as me and 3 judges and other MMA fans saw Machida counter most of the time Shogun tried to land his kicks.
> 
> Also, Machida was backing away(what Machida does in every fight), as well as countering, so the reason why defending a few takedowns in a fight matters is because Shogun tried to get it to the ground and Machida had no part of it, easily defended, which would be *controlling the fight by keeping it standing.*


So he kept it standing(by which he lost convincingly) controlled the fight?


----------



## chilo (May 27, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> Other than very few bad decisions, there is no flaw. If I agree with their decision if they scored it how I said, and if others, although not the majority, agreed on how they scored it, then it can't all be wrong, right?
> 
> Majority doesn't mean right, Majority means Majority.
> 
> It could have gone either way, and the majority of fans aren't happy, but professional judges as well as other mma fans agree with how it was scored. It's not wrong, it's how it is.


wow, just cause your a "professional" judge doesn't mean its a legit decision. This is what has ruined boxing in past 30 years, and if you can't see the coruption than you sir are blind.

first, shogun landed the more clean and powerful strikes and they showed.

oh, and what about the times shogun countered machida? everytime machida threw something shogun answered with a low kick or punch.
second, shogun after 2nd round had machida circling the ring and up against the fence during the fight. shogun clearly had "octagon control."
finally, look at the aftermath, machida all busted up and shogun looking fresh.... please, tell me, what fight were you watching moderator?


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Notoriousxpinoy said:


> Basically what I've been trying to say. First MC says he outstruck Shogun and how the points were scored based on his "effective" striking. So.. here's what happened apparantly:
> 
> Shogun lost even though he OUTLANDED AND OUTPOWERED him in strikes.. OH wait.. Machida also defended those takedowns.. I didn't know that meant control.. lol..


The problem with that is at least 2 of the 4 take down attempts were from when shogun had machida clinched against the fence. Shogun was clearly in control has he had machida against the fence, which is like being on top if they were on the ground. There is no scoring control from that, it was shogun that controlled this fight.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Notoriousxpinoy said:


> Basically what I've been trying to say. First MC says he outstruck Shogun and how the points were scored based on his "effective" striking. So.. here's what happened apparantly:
> 
> Shogun lost even though he OUTLANDED AND OUTPOWERED him in strikes.. OH wait.. Machida also defended those takedowns.. I didn't know that meant control.. lol..
> 
> ...


I don't see him as losing convincingly, neither do 3 judges and other MMA fans.

You're trying to debate on a subject that has already been deciding(Machida winning), that fans do agree with, just not the majority. 

I've already won this debate on the basic level, as the FACT is that Machida did win. It was close, but he won.

His takedown defense won it for him, his countering won it for him, and his striking won it for him. That site means nothing to me, I know what I saw, I know what 3 judges saw, and I a link to a site that has Shogun on Machida's resume.


MikeHawk said:


> Lol, you said there is no flaw? That alone completely invalidates any argument you can put forth. There is most definetly a flaw in the system and if you can't see that then It's no wonder you can't see how Machida lost.
> 
> The nuthuggery emitting from you is just to much to allow you to see the truth. I feel for you.


The scoring has a few flaws, but the judges don't. The judges base fights on the scoring system, and the scoring system has Machida winning via control and countering, as well as avoiding a lot of Shogun's strikes. 

That's how it is, like it or not, Machida won. It was very close, depending on how you judge it anyone could have won, but the scoring system has Machida winning, that's how it went, that's how it is.


----------



## Scorch (Apr 2, 2007)

I'd like to see the rematch on a card with another championship fight aswell. Not just a rematch of them by themselves.


----------



## chilo (May 27, 2007)




----------



## lvkyle (Sep 7, 2008)

Michael Carson you are so in denial. 

And you've yet to answer how being pressed up against the cage is in control lol. As machida was pressed up against it all night. Remember those shogun knees to the legss???? nm it's pointless, your ego has led you to believe you have won some fantasy debate in your mind, yet in reality everyone here thinks you're crazy, and they are right.


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

god those ribs looked destroyed...


----------



## Londrovic (Oct 25, 2009)

I don't understand how you can blindly ignore the fact that not eaven Machida himself or Silva or his father believe what you believe that the decision was right.

Noone is debating if Machida won, its a fact just like you say.We are debating the righteousness of the judges decision.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

lvkyle said:


> Michael Carson you are so in denial.
> 
> And you've yet to answer how being pressed up against the cage is in control lol. As machida was pressed up against it all night. Remember those shogun knees to the legss???? nm it's pointless, your ego has led you to believe you have won some fantasy debate in your mind, yet in reality everyone here thinks you're crazy, and they are right.


I'm not in denial at all. I've got proof that Machida one, do you have proof that Shogun won?

I don't have an ego to debate, I'm going on what I saw and what others saw, and what judges saw, and what I can link to you right now that shows Machida won the fight.

It was very close, but the scoring system put Machida ahead.


----------



## Londrovic (Oct 25, 2009)

And you have yet to explain what Machida saw, and Silva saw, and Machidas father saw, and Dana White saw, and half the world saw.....


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> I'm not in denial at all. I've got proof that Machida one, do you have proof that Shogun won?
> 
> I don't have an ego to debate, I'm going on what I saw and what others saw, and what judges saw, and what I can link to you right now that shows Machida won the fight.
> 
> It was very close, but the scoring system put Machida ahead.


You are very much in denial. You've been reiterating the same post over and over without even regarding what anyone has replied to you. And you're right that you don't have an ego to debate you only have an ego to tell us what you saw and offer 0 discussion on the matter. Why are you even a moderator on a discussion board if you can't debate something?


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> I'm not in denial at all. I've got proof that Machida one, do you have proof that Shogun won?
> 
> I don't have an ego to debate, I'm going on what I saw and what others saw, and what judges saw, and what I can link to you right now that shows Machida won the fight.
> 
> It was very close, but the scoring system put Machida ahead.


So what rounds did you score for Machida and what rounds did you score for Shogun?


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Michael Carson said:


> I'm not in denial at all. I've got proof that Machida one, do you have proof that Shogun won?
> 
> I don't have an ego to debate, I'm going on what I saw and what others saw, and what judges saw, and what I can link to you right now that shows Machida won the fight.
> 
> It was very close, but the scoring system put Machida ahead.


Guess we're the only two on the board defending the decision...lolz! Should have been a split decision though IMO.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

lvkyle said:


> Michael Carson you are so in denial.
> 
> And you've yet to answer how being pressed up against the cage is in control lol. As machida was pressed up against it all night. Remember those shogun knees to the legss???? nm it's pointless, your ego has led you to believe you have won some fantasy debate in your mind, yet in reality everyone here thinks you're crazy, and they are right.





No_Mercy said:


> Guess we're the only two on the board defending the decision...lolz! Should have been a split decision though IMO.


No one is going to put their neck out and defend it, emotions are high and they would be ran over by the large amount of fans that are rushing towards Shogun winning. 

It is just me and you it seems, which is fine, I'm not going to change what I saw and how a fight was scored based on what others think.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Michael Carson said:


> I don't see him as losing convincingly, neither do 3 judges and other MMA fans.
> 
> You're trying to debate on a subject that has already been deciding(Machida winning), that fans do agree with, just not the majority.
> 
> ...


What a self righteous moron...

The fight wasn't close. Machida was out classed. Period. The judges were wrong. Machida knew it. That's why he was hanging his head at the end of the fight and looked so dumbfounded when he was given the decision. Dana White doesn't believe he won. Shogun doesn't. Anderson Silva and his father don't believe it. Neither does the vast majority of the fans. 

And no one is arguing that he was given the decision. They are arguing whether or not he earned it and he most certainly did not.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I would say he earned it, seeing as how he, you know, won. It was close, but he won based on the scoring system.

Oh, and, this is a verbal warning, do not insult me or anyone else on this board, it is against forum rules.


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Also thought some of this stuff was interesting:

FightMetric: 49-47 Rua
Yahoo Sports / Cagewriter: 48-47 Rua
BloodyElbow : 48-47 Rua
USAToday: 48-47 Rua, 49-46 Rua
MMA Fanhouse / Michael David Smith: 48-47 Rua
MMATorch : 48-47 Rua
MMAJunkie : 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMAMania : 50-45 Rua
5 Ounces of Pain : Rua (no score given)
Fightlinker -- Rua (no score given)
ProMMA.Info: 50-45 Rua









link: http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/ev...un-will-beat-machida-sign-names-here-1072289/



MC said:


> I would say he earned it, seeing as how he, you know, won. It was close, but he won based on the scoring system.


Soo, what rounds did you have Machida winning? ...


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

wukkadb said:


> Also thought some of this stuff was interesting:
> 
> FightMetric: 49-47 Rua
> Yahoo Sports / Cagewriter: 48-47 Rua
> ...


I'm gonna impersonate Michael Carson's response for you.

"Well, I'm not going to change what I saw based on a bunch of non-reputable internet fans scoring. I, along with 3 professional judges who have 0 flaws saw Machida winning. That's how it is and I am not allowed to argue it because I do not know how to debate"


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Considering other than hard kicks, Machida controlled the fight and countered more, I'd say the majority(he did win). I thought the last two rounds were Shogun's, and the first 3 could have gone either way based on how you score the fight.


EDIT - This is a verbal warning to all in this thread, insutls and baiting will not be tolerated. Keep it civil.

WildHawk, do not bait other members with your psots.


----------



## Londrovic (Oct 25, 2009)

Ok I just hope Machida acctualy says he should have not been given the decision so people stop defending it because we all saw he was himself shocked to have won.I just wish he acts honorably and admits it.Of to sleep now good night to you all.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Michael Carson said:


> I would say he earned it, seeing as how he, you know, won. It was close, but he won based on the scoring system.
> 
> Oh, and, this is a verbal warning, do not insult me or anyone else on this board, it is against forum rules.


No he didn't earn it. He did not deserve to win. He hit less, did less damage, failed to control the fight. Other than landing a few knees, a brief flurry, and defending some takedowns he didn't do anything other than get hit. You are wrong and generally being condescending about it. It's really disgraceful coming from a moderator. If you disagree try not to be an asshat about it.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I'm not being an ass at all, I have kept quite calm and it is others who are starting to get out of line.

Fact is, he won. I saw him winning the fight on the scoring system, he technically did win the fight, so... what more is there to say?

People can be upset and argue about it all they want, fact is, I had him winning and he did win.


----------



## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

Its very clear Rua won the last two rounds in a big way. like 10-8 or 10-7 each round. So if Machida barely won the first three, which there is no we did or else he wouldnt have gotten tooled like he did, than the fight still should have been a draw or a Rua victory. The decision is to protect an overrated fighter. Hes never beaten anyone with a great history and he showed tonight he is very beatable. I dont understand how running away from every single exchange and landing one strike against a flurry of leg kicks and body kicks is "outpointing". The judges clearly protected Machida because hes going to be "The undefeated undisputed greatest in the world" which hes not. He lost and he knew he did. Dana did and anyone who doesnt like Machidas dick knows he did.


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> I'm not being an ass at all, I have kept quite calm and it is others who are starting to get out of line.
> 
> Fact is, he won. I saw him winning the fight on the scoring system, he technically did win the fight, so... what more is there to say?
> 
> People can be upset and argue about it all they want, fact is, I had him winning and he did win.


I'm interested in your toughts on Machida, himself , thinking he lost the fight as well.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I don't have any thoughts on that, what others, even Machida himself, think is not part of what I am saying.

I'm saying with my eyes, watch I saw, Machida could have been awarded the decision as well as Shogun, depending no how it was scored. It was scored for Machida to win, that's how it is, that's what happened.


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> I don't have any thoughts on that, what others, even Machida himself, think is not part of what I am saying.
> 
> I'm saying with my eyes, watch I saw, Machida could have been awarded the decision as well as Shogun, depending no how it was scored. It was scored for Machida to win, that's how it is, that's what happened.


So why exactly are you in this thread if you have no intentions to debate or offer you thoughts on the matter other than "Machida won and that's what I saw". You're doing nothing but trolling.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I've already stated my opinion, read back a few pages, I have no need to repeat myself over and over.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Michael Carson said:


> I'm not being an ass at all, I have kept quite calm and it is others who are starting to get out of line.
> 
> Fact is, he won. I saw him winning the fight on the scoring system, he technically did win the fight, so... what more is there to say?
> 
> People can be upset and argue about it all they want, fact is, I had him winning and he did win.


Doesn't make you right. And he should have lost on the 10 point scoring system. You can't even argue what I said. So how are you right in anything other than the technical sense?

The only reason everyone isn't screaming troll right now is because you are a moderator but I'll say it. You're a troll.


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> I've already stated my opinion, read back a few pages, I have no need to repeat myself over and over.


Yet that's all you've been doing for the last, what, 6 replies?


----------



## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

I've been lurking here for about a year and never felt the desire to register and post. But this thread seems as good a time as any to post.

I chose the "too close to call" option but if forced to pick a winner by round I'd have given machida rounds 1 and 3 and Shogun rounds 2, 4 and 5.

I definitely think machida is given too much of a pass in terms of his evasive counter attacking style. I understand it's effectiveness for him, but he cannot control the fight when he is usually backing away. If a round is close it seems like you have to give the advantage to the aggressor and not the evader.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

deadmanshand said:


> Doesn't make you right. And he should have lost on the 10 point scoring system. You can't even argue what I said. So how are you right in anything other than the technical sense?
> 
> The only reason everyone isn't screaming troll right now is because you are a moderator but I'll say it. You're a troll.


Not trolling at all, that's my opinion, it's the opinion of PROFESSIONAL JUDGES, and other mma fans, only not the majority. It's sort of hard to call me a troll when I'm basing my opinion on what has actually happened.



MikeHawk said:


> Yet that's all you've been doing for the last, what, 6 replies?


If you wish to not debate me anymore, please don't respond, that is fine.


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> If you wish to not debate me anymore, please don't respond, that is fine.


Haha, debate?
Do you know what a debate is? It's when someone offers an argument and the other person responds with a counter-argument. You are doing no such thing, sir. You are merely replying with the same nonsense you've been replying with the whole thread.


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> Not trolling at all, that's my opinion, it's the opinion of PROFESSIONAL JUDGES, and other mma fans, only not the majority. It's sort of hard to call me a troll when I'm basing my opinion on what has actually happened.


Referring back to my post, this "other mma fan" group you talk about is *very* small. The *vast majority* of other MMA fans had Shogun winning, and every single Play-by-play site I could find had Shogun winning as well.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

This "nonsense" was my opinion, since I am not repeating myself over and over, I guess we can assume the debate is done?

That is understandable, Wukka, the only problem is unlike the majority of mma fans and those sites, other mma fans and myself have proof that we are right.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Michael Carson said:


> Not trolling at all, that's my opinion, it's the opinion of PROFESSIONAL JUDGES, and other mma fans, only not the majority. It's sort of hard to call me a troll when I'm basing my opinion on what has actually happened.
> 
> 
> 
> If you wish to not debate me anymore, please don't respond, that is fine.


See trolling is usually defined as people who make statements that are retarded or out of line with the rest of the conversation. Most people are discussing how unfair the decision was. You state that the 3 judges - who aren't professional _mma_ judges but judges for a number of different sports - made a decision that you agree with therefore we are all wrong. You aren't debating. You aren't even stating your opinion. What you do is make a post that is the literary equivalent of whipping out your cock and slapping somebody with because you are right and they are wrong.

That is condescending. That is asshattery. And that is being a troll.


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> This "nonsense" was my opinion, since I am not repeating myself over and over, I guess we can assume the debate is done?


Well for something to end you have to start it first and we haven't quite done that yet.

Though what has taken place so far is this:
Me: Dana White, Joe Rogan, well over the majority of the fans, lyoto machida, his father, anderson silva, and myself have Shogun winning this fight.
You: Regardless, I say Machida won based on my opinion.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

No, I never said you are wrong.

In fact, if you look at my other posts, I said if it is socred a certain way Shogun would have won. I said that if it was scored how everyone in this thread are thinking, they would be right. It was a very close fight, but was scored for Machida(which it was).

How is that trolling?

Having a different opinion(that is fact) does not make me a troll, it makes me have an opinion(that is fact).


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> This "nonsense" was my opinion, since I am not repeating myself over and over, I guess we can assume the debate is done?
> 
> That is understandable, Wukka, the only problem is unlike the majority of mma fans and those sites, other mma fans and myself have proof that we are right.


What do you mean "proof?" You keep saying that you have proof, but that makes no damn sense. You mean the fact that the judges scored it for Lyoto? We're not arguing whether or not the judges decided that Shogun or Lyoto won, we're debating whether the decision was *correct*.

Where's your proof for that? Oh wait, you know what you saw, that's right.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Michael Carson said:


> No, I never said you are wrong.
> 
> In fact, if you look at my other posts, I said if it is socred a certain way Shogun would have won. I said that if it was scored how everyone in this thread are thinking, they would be right. It was a very close fight, but was scored for Machida(which it was).
> 
> ...


No. You are being a troll. (that is a fact)


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

My proof for the decision being correct is that it was, in fact, scored for Machida. My opinion says it was scored correctly, other mma fans with the same opinion, and 3 judges, regardless of if you or anyone else thinks they are bad judges, all socred it for Machida.

I mean, this thread is about if Machida deserved it, well, I certainly think he did, it could have gone to Shogun, but it didn't, and my proof that it's ok that Machida got the decision is based on the fact that he did, in fact, get the decision.

I don't understand the complication...

EDIT - This is the second warning for all in this thread. Baiting, insulting, or not being civil in this thread from now on will result in an infraction. If you do not have anything to say about the topic at hand and if you cannot do it in a proper way, then do not post.


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> My proof for the decision being correct is that it was, in fact, scored for Machida. My opinion says it was scored correctly, other mma fans with the same opinion, and 3 judges, regardless of if you or anyone else thinks they are bad judges, all socred it for Machida.
> 
> I mean, this thread is about if Machida deserved it, well, I certainly think he did, it could have gone to Shogun, but it didn't, and my proof that it's ok that Machida got the decision is based on the fact that he did, in fact, get the decision.
> 
> I don't understand the complication...


How is that proof that the decision was correct? You are saying you are right because you say Machida won, well duh, he *did* win according to the judges, that is impossible to argue against!

We are arguing whether or not that decision was justified... and your basic argument is that the judges agree with you, as well as a very small percentage of MMA fans, so therefore you are right? Nice logic.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Michael Carson said:


> My proof for the decision being correct is that it was, in fact, scored for Machida. My opinion says it was scored correctly, other mma fans with the same opinion, and 3 judges, regardless of if you or anyone else thinks they are bad judges, all socred it for Machida.
> 
> I mean, this thread is about if Machida deserved it, well, I certainly think he did, it could have gone to Shogun, but it didn't, and my proof that it's ok that Machida got the decision is based on the fact that he did, in fact, get the decision.
> 
> I don't understand the complication...


Yes but 90 percent of the mma community including the fighters who were in the cage think that your proof si bullshit. If Lyoto doesn't believe he won that's a pretty good sign that he didn't deserve the victory. And he doesn't believe it. His body language and extremely evasive answers are blaring signs of how he feels about the fight. Machida didn't deserve it.

So anybody who disagrees with you or calls you out on your behavior will get an infraction? Nice. How exactly do you think that will affect the forums?


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

wukkadb said:


> How is that proof that the decision was correct? You are saying you are right because you say Machida won, well duh, he *did* win according to the judges, that is impossible to argue against!
> 
> We are arguing whether or not that decision was justified... and your basic argument is that the judges agree with you, as well as a very small percentage of MMA fans, so therefore you are right? Nice logic.


I understand that, my opinion is based on the fact that either fighter could have won based on how it was scored, and it was scored for Machida to win. Does this mean it's correct? Yes, it does, in MY eyes, the eyes of others who agree iwth me, it is CORRECT. 

I'm not sure what you are not understanding? My opinion is that it is correct, I believe I am RIGHT, that is my opinion, and to back up my opinion that he deserved to win, I can show you that he won. How can you deny my opinion isn't right when my opinion is fact, it happened?



deadmanshand said:


> Yes but 90 percent of the mma community including the fighters who were in the cage think that your proof si bullshit. If Lyoto doesn't believe he won that's a pretty good sign that he didn't deserve the victory. And he doesn't believe it. His body language and extremely evasive answers are blaring signs of how he feels about the fight. Machida didn't deserve it.
> 
> So anybody who disagrees with you or calls you out on your behavior will get an infraction? Nice. How exactly do you think that will affect the forums?


No, anyone who calls me a troll many times when I am simply stating my opinion, is in return trolling themselves, there fore if they continue to call people trolls, insult, stay off topic, an infraction warning will be issued. 

disagreeing with me is perfectly acceptable, so long as you do it in a civil way.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Michael Carson said:


> I understand that, my opinion is based on the fact that either fighter could have won based on how it was scored, and it was scored for Machida to win. Does this mean it's correct? Yes, it does, in MY eyes, the eyes of others who agree iwth me, it is CORRECT.
> 
> I'm not sure what you are not understanding? My opinion is that it is correct, I believe I am RIGHT, that is my opinion, and to back up my opinion that he deserved to win, I can show you that he won. How can you deny my opinion isn't right when my opinion is fact, it happened?
> 
> ...


So we have to be civil while you be right is what you are saying. That's bullshit. You aren't even debating the topic despite being given multiple chances to do so. You are a troll. I gave my reasons why I believe SHogun won and you said that because you agreed with the judges that you were right. How does that even make sense? It's been pretty much agreed upon that the judges were smoking crack during the fight. You - if you are actually debating anything besides your trolldom - have made no statement besides siding with the judges and telling everyone that you are right.

Without evidence or proof. Congratulations you are indeed a troll.


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Whatever MC, I'm looking forward to your thread breaking down this fight in detail.


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

I'm willing to bet if Machida walked up to him and said " I lost the fight" He would tell Machida, "well based on how I scored it, you won the fight."


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

wukkadb said:


> Whatever MC, I'm looking forward to your thread breaking down this fight in detail.


I understand you and many disagree, that's going to happen sometimes when you have an opinion. I will have the thread up in a few days.



deadmanshand said:


> So we have to be civil while you be right is what you are saying. That's bullshit. You aren't even debating the topic despite being given multiple chances to do so. You are a troll. I gave my reasons why I believe SHogun won and you said that because you agreed with the judges that you were right. How does that even make sense? It's been pretty much agreed upon that the judges were smoking crack during the fight. You - if you are actually debating anything besides your trolldom - have made no statement besides siding with the judges and telling everyone that you are right.
> 
> Without evidence or proof. Congratulations you are indeed a troll.


I debated the topic multiple times pages back, but I have nothing to add so I am simply answering when someone quotes me. Wukka asked me about my opinion, I told him, it is you who continues to use this "trolling" comments.

One more time of causing forum disruptions and you will be infracted, last warning. No more of this trolling business, no more comments on it, focus on the thread and topic.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

You know what, Michael. I'm done with this argument. You will not see reason - or even see how unreasonable you are being - and I have better things to do than listen to you talk about how you are right. You aren't debating anything because you won't even respond to the actual counter arguments of why SHogun won. I think the majority are going to agree with my assessment of you.

And now I am threatened with an infraction to an mma forum I hardly post in.... how ever shall I manage to make it through my day? Sorry I call'em like I see'em. If someone is being an ass I will call them on it. And you are. I gave an argument for why Shogun won and you ignored it.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Okie dokie.

Anywho, as I stated in my original post, will be making a thread in detail soon, as of now it is 2 AM.

I'm out myself, as I have said all I could say.


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

FightMetric: 49-47 Rua
Yahoo Sports / Cagewriter: 48-47 Rua
BloodyElbow : 48-47 Rua
USAToday: 48-47 Rua, 49-46 Rua
ESPN / Jake Rossen: 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMA Fanhouse / Michael David Smith: 48-47 Rua
CagePotato: 49-46 Rua
MMATorch : 48-47 Rua
MMAJunkie : 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMAMania : 50-45 Rua
5 Ounces of Pain : Rua (no score given)
Fightlinker : Rua (no score given)
ProMMA.Info: 50-45 Rua
Sherdog:
Jordan Breen -- 48-47 Rua
Brian Knapp -- 48-47 Rua
Mike Fridley -- 50-45 Rua


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Those were already posted, yet Michael decided to ignore them and reiterate how he thought Machida won based on his opinion.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Pretty much says it all doesn't it?


----------



## B_st (Sep 17, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> Shogun didn't counter as much as Machida did.
> 
> The basic way this fight went was this:
> 
> ...


I agree totally. Machida was clearly the more technical of the two and even when he was backing up by the end of the fight, he was still in control of the fight, partly due to Shogun's caution and reluctance to charge in.
Machida's fighting has not changed much since he came into the UFC and Shogun probably studied him carefully and relied a lot on counter-kicking to stuff Machida's overused straight right hand.
If there were a 6th round, we might had seen a TKO of Machida.
It is time for Machida to upgrade his techniques already. Doing the same old thing in sport karate tournaments is ok because it is mostly a point-based system. MMA is full contact and taking a hard shot to score 2 points is really not a good idea. I think he learnt that after Shogun blasted him badly.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

B_st said:


> I agree totally. Machida was clearly the more technical of the two and even when he was backing up by the end of the fight, he was still in control of the fight, partly due to Shogun's caution and reluctance to charge in.
> Machida's fighting has not changed much since he came into the UFC and Shogun probably studied him carefully and relied a lot on counter-kicking to stuff Machida's overused straight right hand.
> If there were a 6th round, we might had seen a TKO of Machida.
> It is time for Machida to upgrade his techniques already. Doing the same old thing in sport karate tournaments is ok because it is mostly a point-based system. MMA is full contact and taking a hard shot to score 2 points is really not a good idea. I think he learnt that after Shogun blasted him badly.


Actually Shogun landed a lot more strikes. Like almost twice as many. He landed more head shots and a metric assload of leg kicks. Machida did land 6 more body shots than he did though.


----------



## B_st (Sep 17, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> Actually Shogun landed a lot more strikes. Like almost twice as many. He landed more head shots and a metric assload of leg kicks. Machida did land 6 more body shots than he did though.


I didn't count. So no comment on the actual numbers.
My opinion is that Machida's karate is totally based in modern sport karate and his striking techniques are all from techniques used in sport karate competition. And the way it works is you hit me once, I hit you a few times more, I still win even though mine are really quite light and your's quite hard.
I think a lot of us just ignored the light strikes by Machida and every time Shogun produced a big 'thud' we went ooooooh! Another one! A hard right kick to the body....! blah blah blah.
The judges took count of the lighter strikes by Machida and that was probably the only reason Machida won while limping.:sarcastic12:


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

B_st said:


> I didn't count. So no comment on the actual numbers.
> My opinion is that Machida's karate is totally based in modern sport karate and his striking techniques are all from techniques used in sport karate competition. And the way it works is you hit me once, I hit you a few times more, I still win even though mine are really quite light and your's quite hard.
> I think a lot of us just ignored the light strikes by Machida and every time Shogun produced a big 'thud' we went ooooooh! Another one! A hard right kick to the body....! blah blah blah.
> The judges took count of the lighter strikes by Machida and that was probably the only reason Machida won while limping.:sarcastic12:


You don't need to count the stats are right here
http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html


----------



## js9234 (Apr 8, 2007)

You have just lost ALL credibility on here. How you can defend that is absurd. 



Michael Carson said:


> Shogun didn't counter as much as Machida did.
> 
> The basic way this fight went was this:
> 
> ...


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

js9234 said:


> You have just lost ALL credibility on here. How you can defend that is absurd.


No, you all have just lost the game.

:thumb02:

Seriously a lot of people can see the same things and have different interpretation, I mean 3 judges said the same thing so it is reasonable for a person to have a similar thought etc.


----------



## The Dude Abides (Jul 8, 2008)

I'd like to see a rematch. I think people are going WAAAAAY over the top in there outrage over the decision however. I'd of maybe given it to Shogun, but really, i mean, icouldn't say i thought Shogun done enough to put it beyond doubt. Meh!!

It's that old adage, You HAVE to beat the champ.


----------



## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

MrSkark said:


> **** that! he should show the fans some respect and do something about overturning the decision. Something like this should never happen again. it was an absolute disgrace.


I agree. For some reason im gotta feeling dana had this planned the whole time. NOt knowing who was gonna win ofcourse but knew who was gonna win if it went the whole distance.


----------



## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

Although I agree this was an insanely close fight, I honestly think that the rematch will see Machida destroy Rua, I just don't think he'll make those mistakes again.


----------



## elardo (Jul 8, 2007)

Brought down this event for me, that's for sure. People were furious where I watched it. A bunch of them actually tried to get their cover charge back. They failed of course, but everyone there was confused, pissed, or bummed. An automatic re-match won't solve this ridiculous decision, but it's better than nothing being done.


----------



## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

MikeHawk said:


> Who cares about a rematch? Shogun shouldn't have to fight again to get what he already won.


I'm sorry but this is just an ignorant statement. That fight was so close that had it gone Shogun's way Machida would have been entitled to the same rematch. Who cares who comes to the ring with the belt?


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

BrianRClover said:


> I'm sorry but this is just an ignorant statement. That fight was so close that had it gone Shogun's way Machida would have been entitled to the same rematch. Who cares who comes to the ring with the belt?


Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.

Machida was battered in that fight, limping out of the octagon. It wasn't at all a close fight, it was a dominant performance by Shogun and was a sickeningly bad decision.


----------



## LIC (Oct 19, 2008)

elardo said:


> Brought down this event for me, that's for sure. People were furious where I watched it. A bunch of them actually tried to get their cover charge back. They failed of course, but everyone there was confused, pissed, or bummed. An automatic re-match won't solve this ridiculous decision, but it's better than nothing being done.


So they thought it was the bar owners fault that a controversial piece of judging had Machida winning?


----------



## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

LIC said:


> So they thought it was the bar owners fault that a controversial piece of judging had Machida winning?


hey, wouldn't surprise me.


----------



## Seperator88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Shogun shouldn't have to do that again! he fought a perfect fight tonight, 25 straight minutes of that, im sure the thought of doing it again is just exhausting, and who's to say he can do it so perfect again. just rediculous


----------



## newmz (Apr 9, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> I'm going to make a thread in the next few days breaking the fight down piece by piece as to why Machida did, in fact, win that fight. People are so amazed that someone actually did well against Machida that they are blind in the fact that he countered almost every single time Shogun kicked him, that he stuffed all of Shogun's takedowns, that he kicked and hit Shogun just as much as Shogun did to him, if not more based on counters.
> 
> Everyone is emotional right now, and they all have Joe in their mind right now being amazed about Shogun's kicks, and aren't actually thinking about the fight as a whole, where *Machida landed more strikes* when you combine counters and his own attacks, as well as stuffing all takedowns and moving out of the way of quite a few strikes, just not all.
> 
> If you score the fight on a whole, Machida won a very close decision.



No disrespect, but I dont think we were watching the same fight.... Your remark about Machida landing more stikes really annoyed me 
I dont understand how u counted his striking?

look at this http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html Shogun landed 82 stikes while Machida landed 42.... so your wrong 

*Hits landed*
_____Rua VS Mac_____
R1___19 -- 11
R2___21 -- 7
R3___19 -- 15
R4___10 -- 3
R5___13 -- 6
:sarcastic07: 

You cant be serious about writing a break down on how Machida won the fight? I guess u score TTD much higher than stiking... I dont know who won Octagon control all i remeber is Shogun Standing in the centre and picking apart Machida.. 

Shogun landed the most Power shots and connected to the head more times than Machida!


----------



## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

People should beware putting too much credence in fightmetric.com. As frustrating as it may be to some, the human element of judge's scoring adds more to the sport than it takes away. Fightmetic.com has a long way to go before it can replace a panel of independent judges. The scoring system may need to be reworked, but judges are still the way to go.

The die has been cast and no amount of forum logistics will change the outcome of the fight. It always bugs me when forums freak out over a decision more than the fighter who didn't win the fight. The fighter acted with integrity, support your fighter in doing the same. Stressing over the outcome takes away from the fight itself.

The real winner last night was the fans. We got to see twenty-fixe minutes of superbly conditioned Karate and Muay Thai masters in a near deadlock. If/when there is a rematch we'll get to see those masters fight again with adjusted gameplans. This fight reminded me so much of the origin of UFC (style vs style) and that made my night.

Hell yes for MMA!


----------



## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

I couldnt even sleep afterwards, I was so pissed. At least Machida could of said well I cant change the judges mind but I think tonight the better man wasnt me. Do something for christ sakes.


----------



## Smiley Face (Oct 5, 2009)

BrianRClover said:


> I'm sorry but this is just an ignorant statement. That fight was so close that had it gone Shogun's way Machida would have been entitled to the same rematch. Who cares who comes to the ring with the belt?


No, this was Shogun's decision. Rewatch the fight.


----------



## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

So when does anyone think the rematch will be?


----------



## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

Incantation said:


> Seriously, go f&ck yourself. Machida won the first THREE rounds? Go easy on the junk, assh*le.
> 
> And for the record, dipsh!t, not everyone's accepted the Rampage-Griffin decision either.


 Try reading the post before you reply kid, it usually helps.

Here it is again (assuming you can read).

_I don't know that it's as bad a decision as it first appears. *For the record I thought Shogun won 48-47, but it was very close.*

One reason it looks bad is because Rua finished strong and Lyoto faded. *Machida won the first 3 rounds and lost the last 2 in the judges eyes*, so he still won, but Shogun finished so much stronger, it looks worse than it is.

I will wait a couple days and then go take a very close look at this fight again and see how I feel. Rember how many people bitched about the Rampage-Griffin fight and how it became almost universally accepted later that Griffin won._

See what I said? If you can find the bold face parts, I said I thought Shogun won, and that the judges, not me, gave Machida the first three rounds.

Now you can do two things. Go apologize to your Dad for borrowing his account, and then go finish your math homework, you have to be up early for school tomorrow bright eyes.


----------



## Smiley Face (Oct 5, 2009)

hixxy said:


> So when does anyone think the rematch will be?


Next year.


----------



## poiuytre13 (Jul 10, 2007)

total bull shit, did the judges actually know the names of the fighters because shogun schooled him the hole fight


----------



## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> Don't forget to check out the fightmetric page: http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html


Yeah Wukka! Its hard to argue with fightmetric. I thought Belcher won over akiyama but changed my mind (had to) after looking at fight metric and how they analyze it and break it down. You cant really argue with it. Someone on this forum keeps saying that TDD was a part of Machida winning and thats so silly, cause the agressor is the one trying for the TD and if he dont get it, it means nothing for either fighter, its the same as a missed punch or a faied sub. To me it was a close fight and when a fight is that close, I want to see who caused the most damage and IMO it was Shogun hands down.


----------



## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

I STILL can't believe they took that from Shogun.


----------



## Lethal (Mar 3, 2007)

I love the look on Machidas face when he heard he won. He was even shocked.


----------



## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

After re-watching the fight and scoring it myself, I can safely say Machida got the better of the big exchanges(big knees early, some solid striking mid round), while Shogun got the better of the small exchanges(leg kicks, some body kicks, knees to the legs in clinch) Now, I will admit Shogun caused more damage than Machida did overall, but Machida did cause more of an immidiate threat to Shogun.

Which leads me to my main point. When the two fighters walk into the octagon one is the champion and the other is the challenger. The challenger is supposed beat the Champion by a notable margin, if the challenger cannot do that, then he has not truly beaten the champion and does not deserve the belt as it goes to the champion due to priority. Basically, if the fight is a toss up it goes to the champion by default since he had it first. Why does it go to the person who had it first? The belt was that person's before the fight, and if the challenger did not take it decisively then he does not deserve the champion's property.


----------



## DKent (May 16, 2009)

ptw said:


> After re-watching the fight and scoring it myself, I can safely say Machida got the better of the big exchanges(big knees early, some solid striking mid round), while Shogun got the better of the small exchanges(leg kicks, some body kicks, knees to the legs in clinch) Now, I will admit Shogun caused more damage than Machida did overall, but Machida did cause more of an immidiate threat to Shogun.
> 
> Which leads me to my main point. When the two fighters walk into the octagon one is the champion and the other is the challenger. The challenger is supposed beat the Champion by a notable margin, if the challenger cannot do that, then he has not truly beaten the champion and does not deserve the belt as it goes to the champion due to priority. Basically, if the fight is a toss up it goes to the champion by default since he had it first. Why does it go to the person who had it first? The belt was that person's before the fight, and if the challenger did not take it decisively then he does not deserve the champion's property.


No offense but thats pretty ridiculous. Say i'm playin a Basketball game for the championship. I'm down by 1 and score the game winning points at the buzzer beating the defending champions. Since I didn't "dominate" the champion I dont deserve to be champ? 

I disagree there should be no such thing as a championship advantage. When 2 men step into the cage they are on EQUAL footing. If thats the case Machida can run around the cage for 5 rounds and not take any damage(or inflict any) and keep that belt forever because noone is "dominating" him.


----------



## ShaolinMilk (Feb 3, 2008)

I'm a Machida fan and even I thought Shogun won that fight. But then again, I'm not use to Machida being hit that much so maybe that's why I thought he lost. Every time Shogun kicked Lyoto, he got countered with a straight punch which wasn't nearly as effective as those leg kicks Shogun was throwing out all night. 

I feel bad for Shogun, and since I'm a Machida fan, I'm glad he still has his belt, but this feels like a dirty victory.


----------



## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

An instant rematch usually means something went wrong or (DIRTY) in the first fight. Could Dana White be the 2nd coming of Don King:sarcastic12:


----------



## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

DKent said:


> No offense but thats pretty ridiculous. Say i'm playin a Basketball game for the championship. I'm down by 1 and score the game winning points at the buzzer beating the defending champions. Since I didn't "dominate" the champion I dont deserve to be champ?
> 
> I disagree there should be no such thing as a championship advantage. When 2 men step into the cage they are on EQUAL footing. If thats the case Machida can run around the cage for 5 rounds and not take any damage(or inflict any) and keep that belt forever because noone is "dominating" him.


This isn't basketball this is a fight. Both are completely different since all basketball takes into accounts is points, while there are a lot of factors open to interpretation that play into a fight which affect the points awarded to a fighter.

I completely understand where you're coming from when you say two fighters stepping into the cage should be on equal footing. You're basically saying, when they step into the ring that belt is up for grabs by either of them. I agree with that for the most part, but when a fight is a toss up(such as this one) the belt should be awarded to the champion since he has successfully defended his belt. It's situational, so no, had Machida ran away the entire fight and taken no damage from Shogun, but Shogun showed to be the aggressor I would give that fight to Shogun. Unfortunately this was not the case, both fighters exchanged blows, and neither of them decisively out did one another. There is no way for this to end up being a fair decision, had Shogun won the fight people would have said he truly didn't defeat the champion since it was even and he didn't have him in trouble at all during the fight.


----------



## DKent (May 16, 2009)

ptw said:


> This isn't basketball this is a fight. Both are completely different since all basketball takes into accounts is points, while there are a lot of factors open to interpretation that play into a fight which affect the points awarded to a fighter.
> 
> I completely understand where you're coming from when you say two fighters stepping into the cage should be on equal footing. You're basically saying, when they step into the ring that belt is up for grabs by either of them. I agree with that for the most part, but when a fight is a toss up(such as this one) the belt should be awarded to the champion since he has successfully defended his belt. It's situational, so no, had Machida ran away the entire fight and taken no damage from Shogun, but Shogun showed to be the aggressor I would give that fight to Shogun. Unfortunately this was not the case, both fighters exchanged blows, and neither of them decisively out did one another. There is no way for this to end up being a fair decision, had Shogun won the fight people would have said he truly didn't defeat the champion since it was even and he didn't have him in trouble at all during the fight.


Ok maybe the basketball analogy isnt a good one but my main point is close or not being the champ shouldnt determine a nod because it's close. 

I've rewatched this fight twice and i've been watching MMA for about 7 years or so and training for 4. Not to say this makes me an MMA guru or anything but myself and everyone I watched it with saw Rua CLEARLY win 3 rounds. The 2 rounds you could score for Machida if you really wanted to give him 2 rounds were close. So I could see it 4-1 Rua at the WORST 3-2 Rua. That to me isn't a toss up. The keys to winning a fight are supposed to be (since there was no ground game)

Effective striking-Rua
Aggression-Rua
Octagon Control-Rua


----------



## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Machida's reaction reminded me of Couture's after the fight fight with Rizzo, when he was like, "Oh, I won? Cool."


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

ptw said:


> After re-watching the fight and scoring it myself, I can safely say Machida got the better of the big exchanges(big knees early, some solid striking mid round), while Shogun got the better of the small exchanges(leg kicks, some body kicks, knees to the legs in clinch) Now, I will admit Shogun caused more damage than Machida did overall, but Machida did cause more of an immidiate threat to Shogun.
> 
> Which leads me to my main point. When the two fighters walk into the octagon one is the champion and the other is the challenger. The challenger is supposed beat the Champion by a notable margin, if the challenger cannot do that, then he has not truly beaten the champion and does not deserve the belt as it goes to the champion due to priority. Basically, if the fight is a toss up it goes to the champion by default since he had it first. Why does it go to the person who had it first? The belt was that person's before the fight, and if the challenger did not take it decisively then he does not deserve the champion's property.


While that mentality is the standard, I think it is actually backwards. The champion is supposed to be the best, thats what the title signifies. So, the champion should be the one who has to have the more decisive victory to keep his belt. If he wins by the skin of his teeth, then he is not the best.


----------



## Shogun_Is_Champ (Jun 17, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> My proof for the decision being correct is that it was, in fact, scored for Machida. My opinion says it was scored correctly, other mma fans with the same opinion, and 3 judges, regardless of if you or anyone else thinks they are bad judges, all socred it for Machida.
> 
> I mean, this thread is about if Machida deserved it, well, I certainly think he did, it could have gone to Shogun, but it didn't, and my proof that it's ok that Machida got the decision is based on the fact that he did, in fact, get the decision. You also sound like a bitch because in every post "lul me and the judges think its right stupid, and so do other mma fans." What other MMA fans? No one else but you is blinded by Machida's swinging ball sacks to see that Shogun WON!
> 
> ...


Wow, you are acting like an idiot. You are saying that he won because he deserved it? WTF does that mean. I thought Coldcall would be the one defending his lover Machida, but you're the one still hanging off the nuts.


----------



## daveh98 (May 26, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> I understand that, my opinion is based on the fact that either fighter could have won based on how it was scored, and it was scored for Machida to win. Does this mean it's correct? Yes, it does, in MY eyes, the eyes of others who agree iwth me, it is CORRECT.
> 
> I'm not sure what you are not understanding? My opinion is that it is correct, I believe I am RIGHT, that is my opinion, and to back up my opinion that he deserved to win, I can show you that he won. How can you deny my opinion isn't right when my opinion is fact, it happened?
> 
> ...


The flaw in your logic is you are tying your opinion as to why he won for the reason that he did win. Did he win because of the criteria predicated upon your opinion? MAYBE. Did he win because of corrupt BS subjective psychological scoring? MAYBE. So no, you are not right and it is fallacious to predicate opinion and use the verdict as validity. 

The reality is that scoring is usually based on ring generalship, effective aggression, etc. When you factor in everything, Shogun won the fight. I had no stake in this fight. I like both fighters and just wanted to tune in for a good fight. I turn the volume down on main events in both boxing and MMA and then judge. Shogun won the fight based on being busier, landing more flush shots, attempting takedowns, etc. I agree you need to take the title from the owner, but he did do that. This was not a very close fight.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Shogun_Is_Champ said:


> Wow, you are acting like an idiot. You are saying that he won because he deserved it? WTF does that mean. I thought Coldcall would be the one *defending his lover Machida*, but you're the one still hanging off the nuts.





daveh98 said:


> The flaw in your logic is you are tying your opinion as to why he won for the reason that he did win. Did he win because of the criteria predicated upon your opinion? MAYBE. Did he win because of corrupt BS subjective psychological scoring? MAYBE. So no, you are not right and it is fallacious to predicate opinion and use the verdict as validity.
> 
> The reality is that scoring is usually based on ring generalship, effective aggression, etc. When you factor in everything, Shogun won the fight. I had no stake in this fight. I like both fighters and just wanted to tune in for a good fight. I turn the volume down on main events in both boxing and MMA and then judge. Shogun won the fight based on being busier, landing more flush shots, attempting takedowns, etc. I agree you need to take the title from the owner, but he did do that. This was not a very close fight.


 
First of all Shogun_is_Champ I dont appreciate you calling Lyoto my lover, it diminishes the true connection we have, I prefer boyfriend.

Let me start by saying that anyone rooting for Shogun should be upset, they should be upset that he didn't finish the fight, then there would be no issue.

I plan on posting my entire thoughts on the issue, but here are a few. 

Shogun was def bringing the fight, however he was also being countered. My main issue and what people are already saying(no it didn't) is that they didn't allow this to factor into their thoughts on the fight, but some did. And that was Rogan and Goldie....they were clearly on Shoguns nuts the same way I'm on Lyoto's...I'm not sure why this was the case but it was. If u think that isn't true go re watch and listen there are undeniable times Lyoto is countering in a devastating way and all your hearing is Rogan commenting on "yet another leg kick" and Goldie's dumb ass agreeing with anything Rogan says.....painful!!!

Every time Shogun came in throwing the leg kicks all I could hear was Rogan screaming like a girl about the leg kicks "another one landed" he would say.....yeah it was another one landed and while he was landing that leg kick Machida was countering with 3-4 head shots that were landing flush....now either that was happening too fast for Rogan to call or he *didn't care to observe it.....*I think this is what alot of Shogun fans are suffering from......


Let me be clear, I'm not saying you heard Rogan saying this so he helped people make up their mind...I am saying people were automatically doing the same thing Rogan was, and not focusing on the counters that Lyoto was landing.

I would ask all Shogun fans to look at things from this perspective, people ask what is Lyoto's defense for the leg kicks??? He didn't have one, instead he chose to eat them and counter effecively.....

To shoguns credit those counters were to brief and his chin is strong so he was able to continue to push the pace. I think it was an extremely ugly win, the reason I say that(and again I will post an in depth analysis later) is because this truly came down to points, points landed on counters that weren't that hard but yet scored points. This have to be factored in and people that are simply watching the fight for entertainment are only going to focus on that...at the point of the fight we are all watching for this entertainment i speak of....HOWEVER....the judges are counting and looking at the effectiveness of every shot landed.

i need compustrike numbers...

I feel for Shogun, but I am not of the position that he won that fight. I am of the position that he did almost everything he needed to to win the fight, but left his chin exposed and mid section for that matter as well and they were exposed. 

Action wise would I have picked Shogun after as the winner.....YES as a point scoring judge....NO

Please know guys I call it truthfully, I understand how you feel and would if i were not a Machida fan. I feel bad for Shogun, but as a fan of his as well I would say, you should have finished the fight. lets be honest, he had Lyoto so slowed down he could hardly walk and didn't finish him....

One of the biggest issues with Lyoto I have was circling to Shoguns right a La Bisping circling right into the right leg kick...WTF was that and where was Macidas's discipline......not impressed and I think there is no one out there right now more disappointed in their performance than Lyoto....

Going back to the Judges and all those small counters that count as points....Lyoto won an ugly fight on points that Shogun dominated in action.....


More analysis to come tired right now......feel for Shogun fans, but think factoring everything in including the need to take the belt decisively, and the counters that got no mention....it was unanimous. Shogun did nothing to finish the fight and never tried to win the last 30 sec to steal a round and adnitted to thinking by the 5th his corner had toldhim he was wining so he didnt press.....you gotta take the belt!!!


----------



## IhearYa (Oct 25, 2009)

ptw said:


> This isn't basketball this is a fight. Both are completely different since all basketball takes into accounts is points, while there are a lot of factors open to interpretation that play into a fight which affect the points awarded to a fighter.
> 
> I completely understand where you're coming from when you say two fighters stepping into the cage should be on equal footing. You're basically saying, when they step into the ring that belt is up for grabs by either of them. I agree with that for the most part, but when a fight is a toss up(such as this one) the belt should be awarded to the champion since he has successfully defended his belt. It's situational, so no, had Machida ran away the entire fight and taken no damage from Shogun, but Shogun showed to be the aggressor I would give that fight to Shogun. Unfortunately this was not the case, both fighters exchanged blows, and neither of them decisively out did one another. There is no way for this to end up being a fair decision, had Shogun won the fight people would have said he truly didn't defeat the champion since it was even and he didn't have him in trouble at all during the fight.


The whole theory about needing to impressively beat the champion to get the belt is the dumbest shit I've ever heard of. That means the champion is already at an advantage..as long as he does enough to not get submitted or knocked out ..but does enough to "be in the fight"..he automatically wins.It's not like the judges don't have score cards(obviously they dont know how use them properly). A fight is a fight no matter if its a UFC championship or at your local fleamarket. You score it, you give out your decision. Is there an extra box on the score cards to check off that says "Not impressively beating the champion. - 3 points"? 

That needing to "destroy the champion" works exceptionally well for machida since his style doesnt allow you to go in there and knock his head off. You have to do what shogun did..slowly pick at him..batter him up and back off.. If you go in too aggressive he will make you pay for it. So you're damned if you do damned if you dont. You outpoint him, you win..but you dont since it's "not enough to become champion". Lyoto backpeddled in the fight way more than shogun did.

Its not as easy to annihilate the champion as it is a B level fighter. Thats why they're champion..its going to be a war. It's going to be close 9 times out of 10. Doesnt mean champion should keep his belt .

This fight has bittersweetness written all over it though. Bitter because shogun didnt get the belt like he deserves and his been training for. Also, all the machida fans will be dana white-esque will be smug and say "dont leave it in the judges hands"..."thats not what the judges saw bla bla". The sweet part is deep down they know shogun got the better of that ass... The sweet part is they're probably reevaluating all this "Machida could get brock..hes just on whole another level". Talk about counting your eggs before they hatch.

I thought thiago silva and shogun were the same guy? Two aggresive strikers with bjj. LOL. Everyone has been trying to attack lyotos head that he leans back and pays for it..They never thought about his legs that he leaves 2 miles out in front..shogun did..and battered them.


----------



## RestInPeace (Jan 1, 2007)

As some people ignored Lyoto's counters you ignored Shogun's as well.


----------



## IhearYa (Oct 25, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> First of all Shogun_is_Champ I dont appreciate you calling Lyoto my lover, it diminishes the true connection we have, I prefer boyfriend.
> 
> Let me start by saying that anyone rooting for Shogun should be upset, they should be upset that he didn't finish the fight, then there would be no issue.
> 
> ...


Action wise? I thought aggression was a part of scoring.So you mean to tell me if Shogun turns machidas ribs into BBQ ribs..but machida throws ineffective shots that are weak or blocked..he wins? Some of his shots were hard ..dont get me wrong..but the guy clearly throwing the force was Shogun. This is the reason why I never liked Machida/bisping fighters..they dont fight to finish. Most of the time they throw weak garbage that scores and thats it.I thought after thiago/rashad he was going to keep putting on these "dominatin, elusive, next level, rocket scientist, machida era performances." Wikipedia, fightfinder , and any official books will have machida the winner..but to the people..the ones who matter....the ones who buy ppvs..the ones who dont see machida as jesua anymore..Shogun won.


----------



## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

coldcall420 said:


> First of all Shogun_is_Champ I dont appreciate you calling Lyoto my lover, it diminishes the true connection we have, I prefer boyfriend.
> 
> Let me start by saying that anyone rooting for Shogun should be upset, they should be upset that he didn't finish the fight, then there would be no issue.
> 
> ...


except he shouldnt have won on points. He landed less effective and just less strikes in this fight. I dont know how it can be scene otherwise. Check the fightmetric report. Lyoto did not land more strikes in this fight. He did not have octogon control in this fight, was never close to finishing. He was just straight up gifted a decision by bad judges. I have never been more shocked at the end of a fight to see the wrong guys hand raised.

http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

IhearYa said:


> Action wise? I thought aggression was a part of scoring.So you mean to tell me if Shogun turns machidas ribs into BBQ ribs..but machida throws ineffective shots that are weak or blocked..he wins? Some of his shots were hard ..dont get me wrong..but the guy clearly throwing the force was Shogun. This is the reason why I never liked Machida/bisping fighters..they dont fight to finish. Most of the time they throw weak garbage that scores and thats it.I thought after thiago/rashad he was going to keep putting on these "dominatin, elusive, next level, rocket scientist, machida era performances." Wikipedia, fightfinder , and any official books will have machida the winner..but to the people..the ones who matter....the ones who buy ppvs..the ones who dont see machida as jesua anymore..Shogun won.


I consider action and agression all part of the same thing. Bring the fight. Watch the post fight press conference again, neither guy finished the way they wanted too.


----------



## IhearYa (Oct 25, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> I consider action and agression all part of the same thing. Bring the fight. Watch the post fight press conference again, neither guy finished the way they wanted too.


I watched majority of it once..thats all I need too. After losing the fight to the judges ..obviously shogun wouldve rather finished the fight with a first round KO. Machida didnt finish the fight the way he wanted too because if he channels his special dragon machida karate shotokan warrior flame and bubbles soul..he knows he lost. Shogun finished the fight the way he wanted too before the scorecards came out ..he said he backed off because he felt he was winning the fight and so did everyone else.

I think you should rewatch the fight again and try your hardest to not count every little pitter patter slap machida landed as some special Karate move and just as a desperate attempt to keep up with the beating his legs and body were taking


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

IhearYa;1027019[B said:


> ]*I watched majority of it once..thats all I need too*.[/b] After losing the fight to the judges ..obviously shogun wouldve rather finished the fight with a first round KO. Machida didnt finish the fight the way he wanted too because if he channels his special dragon machida karate shotokan warrior flame and bubbles soul..he knows he lost. Shogun finished the fight the way he wanted too before the scorecards came out ..he said he backed off because he felt he was winning the fight and so did everyone else.
> 
> I think you should rewatch the fight again and try your hardest to not count every little pitter patter slap machida landed as some special Karate move and just as a desperate attempt to keep up with the beating his legs and body were taking


WoW, didnt even watch the whole fight once and you even post garbage like that....seriously dude dont waste my time......


----------



## IhearYa (Oct 25, 2009)

I was referring to the post fight press conference that you were telling me to watch again..not the fight. Finding anyway you can to discredit any arguments for shogun..calm down buddy


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

IhearYa said:


> I was referring to the post fight press conference that you were telling me to watch again..not the fight. Finding anyway you can to discredit any arguments for shogun..calm down buddy


 
I know you were.:confused05: Im about to go to the beach couldnt be more calm....:thumbsup:


----------



## Tango87 (Oct 17, 2006)

UFC is starting to learn what happened to boxing... Dumb ass judges and possible fixed fights. There is much more money in a rematch so why not make a controversial decision? It happens all teh time in boxing... It just sucks for us fans... Great fight though, Rua looked awesome.


----------



## lpbigd4444 (Oct 1, 2008)

I thought Machida won rounds 1, 2, and 3 and lost 4 and 5 so I have no problem with the decision. I think Shogun winning the last 2 rounds has biased people and I also think that Joe Rogan was ridiculous. I just watched the fight a second time on mute and felt better about the decision because every 5 seconds Rogan was swingin on Shogun's balls. Machida would counter a Shogun leg kick with a straight left and you would hear Rogan going "great counter leg kick by Shogun... I thought it was an awesome fight and very close and no matter who won I think it is 3 rounds to 2 either way so it was close but I really dont think Shogun got robbed.


----------



## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Come on, do folks really think UFC fixed that fight?

Honestly, there's absolutely no proof of that.


----------



## KnockedTFO! (Feb 4, 2007)

coldcall420 said:


> First of all Shogun_is_Champ I dont appreciate you calling Lyoto my lover, it diminishes the true connection we have, I prefer boyfriend.
> 
> Let me start by saying that anyone rooting for Shogun should be upset, they should be upset that he didn't finish the fight, then there would be no issue.
> 
> ...


CC420, so this is your break down of the fight? So to simpily put it you don't think Shogun deserves a win because he didnt finish it? You should also try explaining to us how Machida outscored Shogun if we're going by points. Obviously this was a huge fight that every hardcore fan of the sport paid close detailed attention to. And what we all saw was Machida get slowly picked apart. Who's more battered, hurt & limping? Machida, it's evident. But of course we know that doesnt determine a fight. What does though is body language after the fight. You know it & everyone else knows it that Machida looked like sh!t & was a bout to cry before the decision announcement knowing he had just lost. You yourself & every other Machida fan should also admit to it that you even thought he lost. There's no need to discredit Shogun the way you are doing by saying "oh well, he didnt finish it" when you know his game plan was brilliance. You boy nbever been so beat up I know it must hurt to see it.


----------



## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Tango87 said:


> UFC is starting to learn what happened to boxing... Dumb ass judges and possible fixed fights. There is much more money in a rematch so why not make a controversial decision? It happens all teh time in boxing... It just sucks for us fans... Great fight though, Rua looked awesome.


I dont know if you know this or not (not trying to be condesending) but the UFC has no hand in judging, drug testing, or reffing fights. The state athletic commissions handle all that stuff. If anything was fixed last night, it had to go through the CSAC. It is possible, i dont think it was, but i really questioned the CSAC's decision making abilities when they let the Yohsida/Johnson fight go on after Johnson was off weight by so much.


----------



## Smiley Face (Oct 5, 2009)

vandalian said:


> Come on, do folks really think UFC fixed that fight?
> 
> Honestly, there's absolutely no proof of that.


There's no proof that it isn't fixed... Honestly, I don't believe the whole fight fixing part one bit but nobody here knows for sure.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

KnockedTFO! said:


> CC420, so this is your break down of the fight? So to simpily put it you don't think Shogun deserves a win because he didnt finish it? You should also try explaining to us how Machida outscored Shogun if we're going by points. Obviously this was a huge fight that every hardcore fan of the sport paid close detailed attention to. And what we all saw was Machida get slowly picked apart. Who's more battered, hurt & limping? Machida, it's evident. But of course we know that doesnt determine a fight. What does though is body language after the fight. You know it & everyone else knows it that Machida looked like sh!t & was a bout to cry before the decision announcement knowing he had just lost. You yourself & every other Machida fan should also admit to it that you even thought he lost. There's no need to discredit Shogun the way you are doing by saying "oh well, he didnt finish it" when you know his game plan was brilliance. You boy nbever been so beat up I know it must hurt to see it.


 
Your certainly entitled to your opinion and no to answer your question It says Im just posting this or now and plan on posting an entire breakdown of the fight...

It's certainly not a win KTFO, that I am pleased with or celebrating...believe me....


----------



## MooJuice (Dec 12, 2008)

Michael Carson said:


> This "nonsense" was my opinion, since I am not repeating myself over and over, I guess we can assume the debate is done?
> 
> That is understandable, Wukka, the only problem is unlike the majority of mma fans and those sites, other mma fans and myself *have proof that we are right.*


By this ridiculous logic you are implying that the most knowledgeable people about MMA fights and who won/lost are cecil peoples and the other 2 judges.

By turtling up and offering no counter arguments except the repetetive "the judges agree with me so i'm right" argument, you are also implying that you think that cerrone lost against ben henderson, and that every other bullshit decision ever made by the judges was actuallly the correct call.

This is literally what you are implying. If you can agree that this is what you are saying, and that cecil peoples and the other judges know how to score a bout better then other fighters, the president of the UFC himself, the fighters families or even the actual goddamn fighters involved themselves, then i can accept that. 

If you can just post now to re-confirm that you believe cecil peoples and the other judges know better than every single other person, then i can accept that and simply ignore your every other post on this forum.

if you somehow disagree with this, then your original argument is flawed, and you have nowhere to turn but into the humble pie shop.

Your post now michael carson.


----------



## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

vandalian said:


> Come on, do folks really think UFC fixed that fight?
> 
> Honestly, there's absolutely no proof of that.


Skepticism is the first step in uncovering the truth.

I'm not saying the UFC is rigged, but it's like every event anymore has some type of highly controversial call.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

MooJuice said:


> By this ridiculous logic you are implying that the most knowledgeable people about MMA fights and who won/lost are cecil peoples and the other 2 judges.
> 
> By turtling up and offering no counter arguments except the repetetive "the judges agree with me so i'm right" argument, you are also implying that you think that cerrone lost against ben henderson, and that every other bullshit decision ever made by the judges was actuallly the correct call.
> 
> ...


He posted his opinion and said he was done, so move on.


----------



## neoseeker (Jun 16, 2007)

Rogan was talking more about Shogun because Shogun was connecting more solid shot. Those counter strikes CC420 is talking about were a few and had no power on them. Look at Shogun's face after the fight and look at Machida's. 

I'm not going into much detail here since a lot has been said about this fight already but Shogun was the winner and not by a narrow margin. He was robbed. Also, Machida was exposed last night.


----------



## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Ive always thought that the people who make up this forum were the kind of people who werent going to be swayed by commentary. Rogan was also trying to make the Tibau/Neer fight sound like it was close, did anyone get swayed by that retarded mess?


----------

