# UFC 61 Bitter Rivals: Shamrock vs Ortiz, Arlovski vs Sylvia - OFFICIAL THREAD



## rdlviper

*UFC 61 BITTER RIVALS*

UFC 61 Bitter Rivals, will be held on Saturday, July 8 at the Mandalay Bay Events Center in Las Vegas, Nevada. 

Date: 07/08/2006 10:00 PM
Event Type: PPV Live
Location: Mandalay Bay 
*
Tim Sylvia Vs. Andrei Arlovski 

Tito Ortiz Vs. Ken Shamrock

Dan Christison Vs. Frank Mir

Josh Burkman Vs. Josh Neer

Yves Edwards Vs. Joe Stevenson

Drew Fickett Vs. Kurt Pellegrino

Jeff Monson Vs. Anthony Perosh

Gilbert Aldana Vs. Cheick Kongo

Hermes Franca Vs. Joe Jordan
*
Featured on the card will be the concluding chapter of the trilogy between UFC heavyweight champion Tim Sylvia and former champion Andrei Arlovski, and the long awaited rematch between arch-enemies Tito Ortiz and Ken Shamrock.

Sylvia, 30, won the title at UFC 59 on April 15 by getting up off the mat to stop Arlovski at 2:43 of the first round. The 6-foot-1, 265-pounder floored the “Pit Bull” with a right hand and quickly pounced with a flurry of punches, forcing the stoppage.

The 6-4, 240-pound Arlovski beat Sylvia in February of 2005 in a mere 47 seconds, forcing a submission with an ankle lock.

The score will be settled in July.

“I’m excited about going out there to fight Arlovski again,” said Sylvia. “He’s the best in the heavyweight division - next to me.”

The featured bout on the UFC 61 card will be another one that fans will be itching to see: Tito Ortiz vs. Ken Shamrock. The coaches from “The Ultimate Fighter 3” have been going at it for months during the show and will finally have the chance to settle their differences in the best way: battling it out in the octagon.

Not that the hatred between the two is anything new. Its roots can actually be traced to a 1999 UFC show in Bay St. Louis, Miss. Shamrock, who was coaching at the time, had one of his fighters go up against Ortiz, who was a newcomer to the scene. Ortiz won, but Shamrock felt his performance was disrespectful and the two had words.

They had a chance to settle things at UFC 40 in November of 2002. Ortiz won the fight by TKO after the third round when Shamrock’s corner felt its fighter had had enough.

The Spike TV show has obviously brought the rivalry back to a head.

*Bet on Ortiz vs Shamrock*

*Bet on Sylvia vs Arlovski*
*
Two Important Matchups Added to UFC 61 Card*

There will be plenty on the line when UFC 61 – Bitter Rivals takes place at the Mandalay Bay Events Center on Saturday, July 8th, and not just in the featured bouts between Tito Ortiz and Ken Shamrock, and Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski.

In an intriguing heavyweight clash, former UFC champion Frank Mir will hope that his second comeback fight is more successful than his first when he tackles emerging contender Dan Christison. Frank Mir vs Dan Christison

At UFC 57 in February, over 16 months after a severe leg injury put him on the shelf, Mir returned to the Octagon against Brazil’s Marcio Cruz and was stopped in the first round. But with five more months of training to get his game back to where it was before the injury, the Las Vegan is ready to once again make a statement in the heavyweight division.

Standing in his way will be 6-8, 265 pound Dan Christison, a member of the cast of ‘The Ultimate Fighter’, season two, who made a huge splash in the big show on April 6th when he submitted season two TUF finalist Brad Imes in the second round of an entertaining war that was one of the best fights of 2006 thus far.

Also added to the UFC 61 card is a meeting of two highly-regarded welterweight prospects, Josh Neer and Josh Burkman.

Neer, a member of the renowned Miletich Fighting Systems team, scored his second Octagon win in April when he upset season two TUF welterweight winner Joe Stevenson via a hard-fought three round unanimous decision. On that same show, Utah’s Burkman suffered his first UFC loss when he was submitted by Jon Fitch in the second round. With the talent-rich welterweight division heating up, the winner of this match will make huge strides up the 170-pound ladder.


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## Kameleon

*Official Thread, very nice.
I would love for Shamrock to win and have it at one win a piece. I'm afraid Ortiz has Shamrocks' number and he will come out on top of the fight.

Arlovski has already beaten Sylvia once and I though he was going to win and retain his title but that didn't happen. Sylvia may be champ now but at the end of the night Arlovski will be crowned champion. I've already placed my bets how bout you.*


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## rdlviper

I wish I was in Vegas for this weekend... i would go to the event


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## Kameleon

*If Shamrock does win, I hope Ortiz doesn't use his injury as an excuse.

Will there be a Sylvia/Arlovski bet?*


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## fullpitch

viper thanks for your post. you just answered questions I had about the ortiz/shamrock background. I saw their fight last night and was wondering when it happened. ortiz elbows must have been sore and bruised after that one.


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## UFCFAN33

if shamrock loses this one he deff should retire. maybe he should train with some of his fighters from the tv show that could help


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## tappingUout

UFCFAN33 said:


> if shamrock loses this one he deff should retire. maybe he should train with some of his fighters from the tv show that could help


bwahahaha....

but seriously, i lost a lot of respect for Shamrock watching the tv show. he does **** all to train those kids. ive always kinda liked Tito but now i respect him A LOT more. he goes in there and shows those kids how to kick some ass. 

as much as i would like to see Shamrock win, just for the sake of him getting a win, i dont think he will pull it out. hes a mess!


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## UFCFAN33

i think shamrock should of retired when rick franklin layed the smackdown on him


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## rdlviper

Unfortunately i think this fight will be another short one - much like Gracie vs Hughes. I think Ortiz will be the Hughes, and absolutely crush Gracie.


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## rdlviper

Some rumored bouts for UFC 61

CONFIRMED
-Tim Sylvia vs. Andrei Arlovski
-Tito Ortiz vs. Ken Shamrock

LIKELY (rumors only)

-Joe Stevenson vs. Yves Edwards
-Frank Mir vs. Dan Christison
-Jeff Monson vs. TBA

POSSIBLE (rumors)

Griffen vs. tba - was scheduled to fight Tammy when Tito was hurt
Penn vs. Parysian
Newton vs. Quarry - old rumor


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## ColossalCanadian

Fantastic, Ima have to go with Ortiz, and Silvia, also, 60 was just on my 21st birthday and had a fantastic time, and 61 is set to be on my brothers 25th birthday, should be another helluva time!


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## gduff2

*no way*

Canadian, you gotta be kidding. You think Silvia will beat Andrei. Last time was a lucky puch and AA got sloppy. AA will go for the submission this time

Though I agree Ortiz will bet shamrock.


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## The Don

Looks like this might shape up to be an exciting fight card


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## CopperShark

*I disagree.*

I think Silvia will flatten AA, and Shamrock will tap out Ortiz. Silvia did land a half assed punch in they're last bout, but it hit. All that matters is the hitting. I think Silvia will KO AA before he has a chance to submit him. And my guess for Shamrock is me remembering how good he used to be. I hope to see the Shamrock that could fight for half an hour at a time. He need to focus a lot for this fight, because he IS the underdog, though I beleive he can pull it off.


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## Ortiz_fan_101

Kameleon said:


> *Official Thread, very nice.
> I would love for Shamrock to win and have it at one win a piece. I'm afraid Ortiz has Shamrocks' number and he will come out on top of the fight.
> 
> Arlovski has already beaten Sylvia once and I though he was going to win and retain his title but that didn't happen. Sylvia may be champ now but at the end of the night Arlovski will be crowned champion. I've already placed my bets how bout you.*


Arlovski in my opinon will win if he doesn't get hit in the jaw. Sylvia only beat him when he hit Arlovski in the jaw. I also think that Ortiz will dominate Shamrock. Shamrock lets his anger get in the way of things. As you've noticed on Ultimate Fighter 3.


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## Ortiz_fan_101

ColossalCanadian said:


> Fantastic, Ima have to go with Ortiz, and Silvia, also, 60 was just on my 21st birthday and had a fantastic time, and 61 is set to be on my brothers 25th birthday, should be another helluva time!


I have to say that Ortiz will totally beat Shamrock and that Arlovski will beat Sylvia. Sorry but Sylvia only beat Arlovski at 59 by hitting him hard in the jaw and that caused him to fall. That's who I'm goin' with though. Arlovski and Ortiz. All the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cheeky4:


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## MMA Fanatic

Sylvia is going to rue the day he pressed for this quick re-match. I believe that Arlovski will take the title back sometime in round one via submission. Andre is a very smart fighter that learns from his mistakes and I doubt he will allow Tim another chance to take this fight from him.

If I was Sylvia I'd be sleeping with that belt every night and enjoying the limited time I have with it.

As far as Ortiz and Shamrock... I'd have to say that Ortiz is most likely to win this fight. Ken is no pushover by any stretch and he isn't coming off a knee and back injury like Tito is so he certainly has a punchers chance of winning the fight.


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## Ortiz_fan_101

MMA Fanatic said:


> Sylvia is going to rue the day he pressed for this quick re-match. I believe that Arlovski will take the title back sometime in round one via submission. Andre is a very smart fighter that learns from his mistakes and I doubt he will allow Tim another chance to take this fight from him.
> 
> If I was Sylvia I'd be sleeping with that belt every night and enjoying the limited time I have with it.
> 
> As far as Ortiz and Shamrock... I'd have to say that Ortiz is most likely to win this fight. Ken is no pushover by any stretch and he isn't coming off a knee and back injury like Tito is so he certainly has a punchers chance of winning the fight.


I have to agree with you about Arlovski. He is a very smart fighter who doesn't make the same mistake twice. I hope that Arlovski wins the title back. Now the whole thing with Tito and Ken...He is no pushover but Tito in my opinon will beat Ken down!!!


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## The Don

as I think I previously stated if Ken decides to take this seriously and get back to his old fighting from which from what I see he is not in he has a shot as it stands I'd choose tito as well


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## Ortiz_fan_101

The Don said:


> as I think I previously stated if Ken decides to take this seriously and get back to his old fighting from which from what I see he is not in he has a shot as it stands I'd choose tito as well


I don't think he will take it very seriously. Granted he is a fighter that you don't want to underestimate, but he lets his anger get in the way. Because Tito makes Ken mad so easily. But it will be a very good fight. Did you see the Ultimate Fighter 3 Matt beat Mike N. yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## The Don

I think that will be Tito greatest offense making Ken angry, granted I would not want to be the object of Kens anger but if your prepared and all I have seen of Tito he usually comes prepared it will make it that much easier. 
now I want to see Ken succeed where GRacie failed Ken being an older guy. I'd like to see him win but even I place him as an underdog here


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## iceman574

*shamrock*

i do not think alot of you are givin shamrock alot of credit he has lost a few fights latly but remember when he lost to ortiz last time he had a torn acl i hope ken wins this time i honestly think he can pull it off tito barley beat forest so he isnt at the top of his game either it will make a good fight eaither way it will not be a quick fight shamrock has the heart of a lion and will not be put down that easyly. aa will kill sylvia aa is a mutch more talented mma fighter than sylvia i feel sorry for tim as he acually belives he has a chance of winning


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## IronMan

Does anyone have any news/ideas about who Snowman's opponent might be? I'd like to see cabbage, but I don't know how that would work out.


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## Eminem

Ortiz is to much,Ken is a washed up old fighter,Very slow to.
Although i wasn't impressed with Tito's last fight.


A.A recked Sylvia in they're first fight,And droped him in the second but got caught with a punch.I say A.A wins Knock out first round.


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## MaximusQ

tappingUout said:


> bwahahaha....
> 
> but seriously, i lost a lot of respect for Shamrock watching the tv show. he does **** all to train those kids. ive always kinda liked Tito but now i respect him A LOT more. he goes in there and shows those kids how to kick some ass.
> 
> as much as i would like to see Shamrock win, just for the sake of him getting a win, i dont think he will pull it out. hes a mess!


 I agree, I used to like Shamrock a lot more than Tito.... But after watching their training methods and seeing their personalities, I have become a bnigger fan of Tito... I hope Tito whips his ass come UFC 61


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## IronMan

I think we all saw how the "Lion's" Den works and I wasn't impressed at all. I think that if Tito had a camp, and he should, it would be pretty succesful. His buddy Boogeyman did realy well in 60, maybe they've got something going.

I think Tito will crush Ken, just because the Ken Shamrock of today is not the "World's Most Dangerous Man."

I think that the Arlovski/Sylvia fight will be more fun to watch. Andrei is a beast and Tim is a giant, so anything can happen. I want Andrei to win, but I know that at any moment Sylvia can land one of those giant right hands and the fight will be over.

I'm counting on Arlovski by submission again.


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## rana

IronMan said:


> I think we all saw how the "Lion's" Den works and I wasn't impressed at all. I think that if Tito had a camp, and he should, it would be pretty succesful. His buddy Boogeyman did realy well in 60, maybe they've got something going.
> 
> I think Tito will crush Ken, just because the Ken Shamrock of today is not the "World's Most Dangerous Man."
> 
> I think that the Arlovski/Sylvia fight will be more fun to watch. Andrei is a beast and Tim is a giant, so anything can happen. I want Andrei to win, but I know that at any moment Sylvia can land one of those giant right hands and the fight will be over.
> 
> I'm counting on Arlovski by submission again.



i think arlovski can do it, but like u said its one of those fights which anything sudden and damaging can happen.
too bad i wont be able to watch it


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## IronMan

rana said:


> i think arlovski can do it, but like u said its one of those fights which anything sudden and damaging can happen.
> too bad i wont be able to watch it


That suck's that you'll be missing it. I absolutely think that in MMA anything can happen to change the result of a fight, but in Sylvia v Arlovski it's even more drastic. If the fight goes to the ground then aa can catch a submission or just pound the crap out of tim, but if their standing either one can knock the other out with big shot.


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## MaximusQ

*Arlovski wil get his revenge*

after watching the second arlovski vs. sylvia again and again, I think it was stopped too early... arlovski was still covering the shots... woudn't be surprised if the ref was instructed to favor sylvia.... I truly hope I am wrong....aaaaagggghhhh .....again, the ratings will be better with a rubber match between the two... In my opinion, arlovski is the superior fighter


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## Ortiz_fan_101

The Don said:


> I think that will be Tito greatest offense making Ken angry, granted I would not want to be the object of Kens anger but if your prepared and all I have seen of Tito he usually comes prepared it will make it that much easier.
> now I want to see Ken succeed where GRacie failed Ken being an older guy. I'd like to see him win but even I place him as an underdog here


well I hope that Ortiz will beat Shamrock. I was really bummed when Gracie lost to Hughes. I was hoping that Gracie would've won. Go TITO!!!! BEAT DOWN SHAMROCK!!!


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## Juventud2222

Once again people are going for who they think is the popular one.
Arlovski beats Sylvia and Ortiz beats Shamrock.
I think its the other way around. 

Sylvia beat Arlovski clean, so theres no reason why he won't do it again. Don't count him out.

Did anyone see Shamrock beat KIMO? By the looks of it, it doesn't seem like anyone here did. Don't count Shamrock out either, he will have learned from his first fight with Tito and probably has a different gameplan. He was also injured at the time, and has now since been training with different people. 
Not to mention Ortiz is nothing like he used to be, it looks like hes lost 'it'.


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## IronMan

Juventud2222 said:


> Once again people are going for who they think is the popular one.
> Arlovski beats Sylvia and Ortiz beats Shamrock.
> I think its the other way around.
> 
> Sylvia beat Arlovski clean, so theres no reason why he won't do it again. Don't count him out.
> 
> Did anyone see Shamrock beat KIMO? By the looks of it, it doesn't seem like anyone here did. Don't count Shamrock out either, he will have learned from his first fight with Tito and probably has a different gameplan. He was also injured at the time, and has now since been training with different people.
> Not to mention Ortiz is nothing like he used to be, it looks like hes lost 'it'.


If anyone's lost 'it' it's gotta be Ken. Yes he beat Kimo, but there's no way that he'll beat Tito. Ken can't groundnpound Tito and so he loses his biggest advantage.

Arlovski is the more well rounded fighter than Sylvia and I'm not counting sylvia out but arlovski can win fights on his feet and on the ground. He proved that he has more power than Sylvia, if you watch their Cabbage fights side by side you can tell. I like the Belarussian.

Pitbull and the Bad Boy. They're popular for a reason.


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## Juventud2222

Im just saying, i couldn't see Ortiz beating Kimo. I think Shamrock knows this is his last fight if he loses, so hes going to be fully ready. 

Sylvia knocked him out once, theres nothing stopping him doing it again. Arlovski is a quicker striker but hes probably better off trying something on the ground. 
I saw both Cabbage fights, i think they both inflicted the same amount of damage on him. Just in different ways.


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## acenumber2

*Confirmed Ufc 61 Card And 62 Main Event*

THIS IS EXCLUSIVE INFO FRM O.C REGISTER

Announced matchups
Light Heavyweight Bout: Tito Ortiz vs. Ken Shamrock 
Heavyweight Championship Bout: Tim Sylvia vs. Andrei Arlovski 
Heavyweight Bout: Cheick Kongo vs Gilbert Aldana 
Heavyweight Bout: Dan Christison vs. Frank Mir 
Welterweight Bout: Josh Burkman vs. Josh Neer 
Lightweight Bout: Joe Stevenson vs Yves Edwards 

and the main event for ufc 62 will be 
chuck liddell vs. renato sobral


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## rdlviper

*Two Important Matchups Added to UFC 61 Card
*
There will be plenty on the line when UFC 61 – Bitter Rivals takes place at the Mandalay Bay Events Center on Saturday, July 8th, and not just in the featured bouts between Tito Ortiz and Ken Shamrock, and Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski.

In an intriguing heavyweight clash, former UFC champion Frank Mir will hope that his second comeback fight is more successful than his first when he tackles emerging contender Dan Christison.

At UFC 57 in February, over 16 months after a severe leg injury put him on the shelf, Mir returned to the Octagon against Brazil’s Marcio Cruz and was stopped in the first round. But with five more months of training to get his game back to where it was before the injury, the Las Vegan is ready to once again make a statement in the heavyweight division.

Standing in his way will be 6-8, 265 pound Dan Christison, a member of the cast of ‘The Ultimate Fighter’, season two, who made a huge splash in the big show on April 6th when he submitted season two TUF finalist Brad Imes in the second round of an entertaining war that was one of the best fights of 2006 thus far.

Also added to the UFC 61 card is a meeting of two highly-regarded welterweight prospects, Josh Neer and Josh Burkman.

Neer, a member of the renowned Miletich Fighting Systems team, scored his second Octagon win in April when he upset season two TUF welterweight winner Joe Stevenson via a hard-fought three round unanimous decision. On that same show, Utah’s Burkman suffered his first UFC loss when he was submitted by Jon Fitch in the second round. With the talent-rich welterweight division heating up, the winner of this match will make huge strides up the 170-pound ladder.


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## tappingUout

acenumber2 said:


> THIS IS EXCLUSIVE INFO FRM O.C REGISTER
> 
> Announced matchups
> Light Heavyweight Bout: Tito Ortiz vs. Ken Shamrock
> Heavyweight Championship Bout: Tim Sylvia vs. Andrei Arlovski
> Heavyweight Bout: Cheick Kongo vs Gilbert Aldana
> Heavyweight Bout: Dan Christison vs. Frank Mir
> Welterweight Bout: Josh Burkman vs. Josh Neer
> Lightweight Bout: Joe Stevenson vs Yves Edwards
> 
> and the main event for ufc 62 will be
> chuck liddell vs. renato sobral


sounds pretty good to me!!!

a lot of heavy weight bouts...


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## IronMan

acenumber2 said:


> THIS IS EXCLUSIVE INFO FRM O.C REGISTER
> 
> Announced matchups
> Light Heavyweight Bout: Tito Ortiz vs. Ken Shamrock
> Heavyweight Championship Bout: Tim Sylvia vs. Andrei Arlovski
> Heavyweight Bout: Cheick Kongo vs Gilbert Aldana
> Heavyweight Bout: Dan Christison vs. Frank Mir
> Welterweight Bout: Josh Burkman vs. Josh Neer
> Lightweight Bout: Joe Stevenson vs Yves Edwards
> 
> and the main event for ufc 62 will be
> chuck liddell vs. renato sobral


Liddell's going to beat sobral's face in.

I like the UFC 61 card though. Keep us posted on the last 2 fights.


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## IronMan

Juventud2222 said:


> Im just saying, i couldn't see Ortiz beating Kimo. I think Shamrock knows this is his last fight if he loses, so hes going to be fully ready.
> 
> Sylvia knocked him out once, theres nothing stopping him doing it again. Arlovski is a quicker striker but hes probably better off trying something on the ground.
> I saw both Cabbage fights, i think they both inflicted the same amount of damage on him. Just in different ways.


I can see Tito KOing Kimo, though he might have trouble taking him down. I just don't think highly of Kimo, though he does have a good history.

I agree that Sylvia could KO arlovski, but arlovski has more power, more quickness and I think he takes a punch better too. I thought that they both did the same amount of damage in the cabage fights, but then I watched them closely and realized the biggest difference, Cabbage landed shots on aa, he didn't land any on Sylvia.

I don't think that Sylvia can take a punch well enough to compete with andrei, but we'll get to see in a few weeks.


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## Ortiz_fan_101

Juventud2222 said:


> Once again people are going for who they think is the popular one.
> Arlovski beats Sylvia and Ortiz beats Shamrock.
> I think its the other way around.
> 
> Sylvia beat Arlovski clean, so theres no reason why he won't do it again. Don't count him out.
> 
> Did anyone see Shamrock beat KIMO? By the looks of it, it doesn't seem like anyone here did. Don't count Shamrock out either, he will have learned from his first fight with Tito and probably has a different gameplan. He was also injured at the time, and has now since been training with different people.
> Not to mention Ortiz is nothing like he used to be, it looks like hes lost 'it'.


I'm not going for who I think is popular! I think that Arlovski has learned from his past fight with Sylvia. With Ortiz and Shamrock. Shamrock lets his anger get in the way. He hates Ortiz. HE gets so mad at him and then it goes downhill from there.


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## liverkick

just bought my tickets and i'm going to vegas baby! This will be my first ufc live, can't wait to see the action! imo tito over shamrock and aa over silvia.


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## USMCgrappler

Ortiz_fan_101 said:


> I'm not going for who I think is popular! I think that Arlovski has learned from his past fight with Sylvia. With Ortiz and Shamrock. Shamrock lets his anger get in the way. He hates Ortiz. HE gets so mad at him and then it goes downhill from there.


And remember, Arlovski beat HIMSELF! Silvia was on his way to getting whooped again.


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## Ken Shamrock

I hope Ken Shamrock destroys Tito Ortiz. Ken is my favourite MMA fighter of all time, always did like him as a child in the WWE.


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## The Don

He blew chunks in the WWE it almost ruined him by the time he left he was out of shape and looked pathetic, He wa like a wild lion put in capitivity in a tiny little cage he was sick. he is much better off with out vince


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## Cbingham

IronMan said:


> Liddell's going to beat sobral's face in.
> 
> I like the UFC 61 card though. Keep us posted on the last 2 fights.



I don't know Bobalu has improved alot, it should be a great fight. But you are probably right.


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## UFCFAN33

Lets GO ICE man:thumbsup:


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## samurice

If Sobral takes Liddell down then he can submit him and get the win. But Chuck's opponents have been too dumb to take him down and always wants to trade with him for some reason. And I mean the people who don't even attempt to take him down, like Horn.


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## UFCFAN33

ufc 61 Jeff Monson vs Anthony Perosh thats what i found out.


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## Rush

UFCFAN33 said:


> ufc 61 Jeff Monson vs Anthony Perosh thats what i found out.


Yeah. Jeff Monson is going to make Anthony Perosh tap out at UFC 61 like he does to everyone.


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## UFCFAN33

Anthony Perosh ....Who is this guy?


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## Hughie

It's not that Liddell's opponents don't try to take him down, it's that they can't, they do try, but Liddell has an excellent sprawl and he has great take down defense, if they do manage to get him down he is hard to keep down, but I think it will be a decent rematch with Renato "Babalu" Sobral. I see Liddell taking this fight by knockout just like last time, but instead of a kick I think he'll knock out Sobral with a punch. Also, Horn believed that Liddell's was a more powerful striker but he believed that he was a much cleaner striker than Liddell, so at UFC 54:Boiling Point he decided to throw with him but then Liddell rocked him with a few big punches, so Horn tried taking him down and probably would have if he would have had perfect vision but after Liddell hit him, he found it hard to see, which in the 4th round became too much and Horn told McCarthy that he couldn't see, so he called an end to the fight, if Horn wouldn't have been hit with a good number of punches and was able to see well, I would have thought he would have won the fight by submission. I am a huge Jeremy Horn fan aswell .


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## Rush

UFCFAN33 said:


> Anthony Perosh ....Who is this guy?


He's some 5-1 fighter who's wins have all been in the first round submissions. His only loss was unanimous decision to Sam Nest (a 16-1 fighter). Perosh will be making his UFC debut if he fights Jeff Monson at UFC 61. Perosh has fought in Warriors Realm in his last fight and Spartan Reality Fight. Jeff Monson is going to own Perosh if they do fight at UFC 61.


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## Rush

Arlovski wins first round KO I bet, Tito wins unanimous decision against batter Ken, who will retire hopefully after the match to stop disgracing his brother Frank's last name.


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## The Legend

*What fight is the main event @ UFC 61*

Ortiz & Shamrock or Sylvia & Arlovski. My guess would be Ortiz and Shamrock because of their first fight and they truly hate each other and you can't say that for Arlovski and Sylvia that they truly hate each other.


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## UFCFAN33

From what i read it is a double main event..If that isnt true i would think that the title match would be it.


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## UFCFAN33

thats what i figured


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## raymardo

*Tito guaranteed victory. Here's why...*

Hello All,

This is my first post to MMA Forum. I am the owner of UltimateFightingChampionship.com. We are in prelaunch and have noticed the MMA Forum's Adwords Ad on our website. According to our stats, a lot of people click on through the ad on our site and end up here. Glad we can help.

Our site will be fully live in one month. Currently we are building a large database of MMA competitors and conducting interviews. We were thinking about a message board, but I talked my partners out of it. Instead, I think I'll hang around this one.

Here's UltimateFightingChampionship.com's two cents on the Shamrock Ortiz rematch...

Tito wins because he is still close to his prime and is a more evolved fighter than Shamrock. Ken, by his own admission is "not a Jiu Jitsu guy." In today's MMA world, you have to be a Jiu Jitsu guy, just like you have to be a grappling guy, and a striking guy, and a kick boxing guy, and a...

One dimensional fighters can win an occasional fight, especially if they're heavy handed, but in one hundred matches, the well rounded MMA competitor will win over 90% of the fights.

A fighter like Chuck Liddell seems one dimensional because we rarely see him on the ground, in the guard. But, that's only because he has great takedown defense and doesn't shoot on his opponents, though he has exceptional wrestling skills as is evidenced by that great takedown defense.

The Iceman chooses to stay on his feet and slug because his heavy hands are even more dominant than his incredible ground game.

Shamrock has submitted opponents, but no one of significance. He has lost a decent amount of fights recently, a couple that were questionable, but still defeats.

His early MMA victories were against opponents who were not well rounded fighters. It was a sport in its infancy when Shamrock reached his prominence, and he was thoroughly outclassed quickly by the first well rounded fighter he faced: Royce Gracie.

Ken fought not to lose in the rematch and came away with a boring draw.

I may sound as if I'm anti Shamrock, but that is not the case. I'm a fan, but I believe that today's fighters have the advantage of training in all areas of fighting from day one, and they watch tapes of the legends like Royce Gracie and pick apart his Gracie Jiu Jitsu. 

It's actually unfair to guys like Royce. The entire MMA world watched his matches and developed a style to counter it because he was so dominant. That's why Matt Hughes did so well against Gracie; he had over a decade of MMA training to combat Gracie Jiu Jitsu (actually, Royce's interpretation of it) behind him. He also had youth, weight, and strength on his side.

It will be a similar scenario between Tito and Ken. I like tito also. He's a good guy, but it's always sad to see the legends fall to the wayside, left defeated on their shields of battle. 

I'm afraid that's what we have to look forward to. We'll see.

I look forward to posting after the fight. 

If anyone's in the NJ area, send me an email. Maybe we can get a group together and check out the fights.


raymardo

Ultimate Fighting Championship . com ​


----------



## A DOG

*It's gonna be great!*

All I have to say is that I'll be there in Vegas to watch the fight and my moneys on Ortiz and Arlovski, it's going to be great I can't wait to see Arlovski get his belt back and even more see Tito kick the $hit! out of Ken and retire his gluteus maximus once in for all.


----------



## ShaunHunting

Rush said:


> He's some 5-1 fighter who's wins have all been in the first round submissions. His only loss was unanimous decision to Sam Nest (a 16-1 fighter). Perosh will be making his UFC debut if he fights Jeff Monson at UFC 61. Perosh has fought in Warriors Realm in his last fight and Spartan Reality Fight. Jeff Monson is going to own Perosh if they do fight at UFC 61.


Perosh runs an mma academy with Elvish Sinosic in Australia. They have a website at http://www.sinosicperosh.com.au/

Monson should have the heavy advantage on the feet, so he might try to stand and knock him out. Too bad it won't air on ppv.


----------



## Kameleon

*I don't think Ken Shamrock should retire after UFC 61, win or lose. He should have one more match against Royce Gracie.*


----------



## holla-well

rdlviper said:


> I wish I was in Vegas for this weekend... i would go to the event



ya i know. i wish i could pick out some of the ppl i could train with even though i dont fight. it would be kwl.


----------



## holla-well

UFCFAN33 said:


> From what i read it is a double main event..If that isnt true i would think that the title match would be it.




id say everyone mainly wants to see ortiz v. shamrock.


----------



## holla-well

Ken Shamrock said:


> I hope Ken Shamrock destroys Tito Ortiz. Ken is my favourite MMA fighter of all time, always did like him as a child in the WWE.



no i think the total opposite. ken needs to retire


----------



## holla-well

Juventud2222 said:


> Once again people are going for who they think is the popular one.
> Arlovski beats Sylvia and Ortiz beats Shamrock.
> I think its the other way around.
> 
> Sylvia beat Arlovski clean, so theres no reason why he won't do it again. Don't count him out.
> 
> Did anyone see Shamrock beat KIMO? By the looks of it, it doesn't seem like anyone here did. Don't count Shamrock out either, he will have learned from his first fight with Tito and probably has a different gameplan. He was also injured at the time, and has now since been training with different people.
> Not to mention Ortiz is nothing like he used to be, it looks like hes lost 'it'.




no, & so what if ken was injured. he souldnt have fought then it was his lost. tito wouldve won anyway.


----------



## holla-well

Ortiz_fan_101 said:


> I'm not going for who I think is popular! I think that Arlovski has learned from his past fight with Sylvia. With Ortiz and Shamrock. Shamrock lets his anger get in the way. He hates Ortiz. HE gets so mad at him and then it goes downhill from there.



ya i have noticed that also.


----------



## holla-well

Eminem said:


> Ortiz is to much,Ken is a washed up old fighter,Very slow to.
> Although i wasn't impressed with Tito's last fight.
> 
> 
> A.A recked Sylvia in they're first fight,And droped him in the second but got caught with a punch.I say A.A wins Knock out first round.



i think that ken talks to much trash & he gets what he deserves, a beating from tito ortiz


----------



## holla-well

CopperShark said:


> I think Silvia will flatten AA, and Shamrock will tap out Ortiz. Silvia did land a half assed punch in they're last bout, but it hit. All that matters is the hitting. I think Silvia will KO AA before he has a chance to submit him. And my guess for Shamrock is me remembering how good he used to be. I hope to see the Shamrock that could fight for half an hour at a time. He need to focus a lot for this fight, because he IS the underdog, though I beleive he can pull it off.



ortiz is not going to tap out.


----------



## alamojj

Kameleon said:


> *I don't think Ken Shamrock should retire after UFC 61, win or lose. He should have one more match against Royce Gracie.*


That would be cool, but for Royce's sake I would hope he would win. If he loses to Shamcock, then he needs to hang it up.


----------



## The Don

I think Shamrocks biggest advantage in this fight is that everyone seems to think he is going to get destroyed. So all he can do is either meet peoples expectations or exceed them by winning its a win win for him mentaly he has no mental preassue, ( not ment to be a joke) All he has to do is come out focused. Tito has all the pressure everyone expects him to be shamrock and since he did last time its even more pressure as shamrock is older and such now.. age is not yet a factor for Tito
personaly I want to see Shamrock come out and go old school on Tito It would make it a good fight and hard to predict, but if we see the shamrock of late its going to be over quickly. I am pulling for Shamrock though


----------



## Team Punishment

Im very excited, I cant wait to see Tito Knock out Shamrock and retire his ass.


----------



## adminmma

*UFC 61 Bitter Rivals FightCard*

Date: 07/08/2006 10:00 PM
Event Type: PPV Live
Location: Mandalay Bay Events Center, Nevada


*Tim Sylvia Vs. Andrei Arlovski
Tito Ortiz Vs. Ken Shamrock
Dan Christison Vs. Frank Mir
Josh Burkman Vs. Josh Neer
Yves Edwards Vs. Joe Stevenson
Drew Fickett Vs. Kurt Pellegrino
Jeff Monson Vs. Anthony Perosh
Gilbert Aldana Vs. Cheick Kongo
Hermes Franca Vs. Joe Jordan

Any predictions? I think we will have to get some vbookie events setup :thumbsup:
*


----------



## PitbullX

Shamrock lost to Sakuraba for cristsakes.... Ortiz will destroy him! I gained alot of respect for Ortiz on Ultimate fighter, lost any for Shamrock. Not that there was much for Ole Ken left anyways!

AA and Silvia might be interesting, AA should win the title back. 2 fights, he's knocked him down twice. This time shouldn't be much different, just a better finish for Andre.


----------



## theboz19

*Predictions and why!*

Ortiz over Shamrock: Has any of the Shamrock fans seen any of his last fights. He's a punching bag with no stamina. That being said, Tito needs to be in better shape than he was when he fought Griffin. Had that been a title match (5 rounds) Griffin would have worn him out. Side note: When can Griffin catch a break? His conditioning is a strength but with always fighting 3 round fights it takes his strength away. Maybe he should work on his strikes so he can finish people off? 

AA over Sylvia: The heavyweight division is horrible. AA should move down. Sylvia's too slow as proven in the previous 2 fights with AA. I don't expect AA to go for the KO but rather to use Sylvia for what he is good for, a punching bag. Make him stand AA and jab him until he cries. Of course it would be nice to see AA break his arm like Mir did. 

Other fights: I'm keeping an eye on only one of the other fights. I'd like to see more offense out of Monson. He has that compact body frame that I believe has an advantage in the octagon.


----------



## Punishment 101

Winners will be 

Tito
Arlovski
Yves
Christison (upset)
Fickett
Burkman
Monson
Aldana
Hermes


----------



## rana

i'm still tito all the way, yeaaahhh, but i dont get the fight till monday so i'm gonna have to stay off the forums if i want to watch it and not know who wins.
GO TITO!
i think aa will win his fight, i'm hoping!


----------



## fiveblindkid

is any1 fighting yet?


----------



## EricOF

fiveblindkid said:


> is any1 fighting yet?


Yves Edwards loses first fight after doctors stop it after 2nd round. Bloodiest UFC fight I think I've seen though I haven't seen them all. Just one of those cuts that produces lots of blood. Otherwise Yves wasn't really hurt. Likely won the first round but GnP produced the cut in the 2nd.


----------



## kevlepp

*Whats happening now!?*

What are the latest losers and winners? Please post !


----------



## Ex-Battousai

no joe rogan my night is set. I wanna fight rogan ufc62 rogan must die!!!!!!!!:cheeky4:


----------



## kevlepp

I hope to hear that Shamrock woops on Ortiz. He needs to learn some humility- or at the very least, some freakin basic respect.


----------



## kevlepp

Shamrock lost. 

Stopped in 1st round.


----------



## K9forLife

Stopped at 1 minute 8 seconds. Ken unable to 'defending himself'.


----------



## Game555

Shamrock got whooped, no suprise though I was rooting for him.

He's just not good enough to hang anymore.


----------



## kobra ki

I don't see the point in having +37 year old guys try to battle someone comparable in skill and in their late 20's early 30's. I'm not taking anything away from guys like Ken or Royce but they don't have the stamina (read: Michael Jordan, Evander Holyfield, Roy Jones etc.) anymore. 

Dana White/however does the match-ups should try to avoid making irresponsible decisions regarding the combatants and learn from what boxing is going through. 

If Sham lost, don't care, but I'll hate to see Ortiz's smug face reliving this.


----------



## ortizlover

*talk*

sham talked too much smack on uf 3..... give respect to the "founders club' but time to retire


----------



## ortizlover

smug? havent you been paying attention? ortiz walks the walk


----------



## ortizlover

thats bs


----------



## ortizlover

smug? deserved


----------



## ortizlover

ya there?


----------



## xoxo_fighterchick_xo

I think Matt Hughes should win...


----------



## T.B.

Eh, anyone know the song Ken Shamrock entered to? I appreciate any help. Thanks!


----------



## Kierrah

*What the..*

I started out being a FULL hating Ortiz cause of his smack talk-then it was a toss up.. I definately wish things would have been done alot different I mean hell Iyves almost bleed to death and still got to fight.. lol. We had some people over watching with us and we were all screamin.. then the fight was stopped WTF! Total chaos thought there was goin to be some TKO's in my living room :dunno: And Mir.. I definately didn't expect that!! Who the hell was that guy and what did he do with Frank? Craziness


----------



## ALSKI12

*Where can you download ufc 61 ?*

Hey everyone ... I saw on a commercial a while back there was a site to watch the fights on the net after it was finished ? Does anyone know the exact web addy to go ? Thanks for your time .. AL


----------



## D Wood

i knew ortiz and sylvia would win

not surprised at all about who won these fights...it went how i expected it to go



anyone have the videos of ortiz/shamrock and sylvia/arlovski and any other good fights???


----------



## ALSKI12

*Ufc Veterans Class ?*

Who Thinks There Should Be A Class For The Old Timers ... I Definatly Think That Old Fighters From The Ufc Beginnings Like Shamrock And Gracie Should Fight Each Other And Not Mess Around With The New Generation Thats Equipt To Kill Them ? I Was Rooting Fopr Shamrock Just Cus He Is Old Like Me ... But After First Bet Down .... And Now Hearing About This One ... Its Time To Draw A Line In The Dirt And Have A Seniors Division Just Like Golf !


----------



## kobra ki

ortizlover said:


> ya there?


I came back and read reports from ortizlover that states, ironically, that he loves ortiz. What is respectful about how this all started? two birds towards Ken's camp. WTF? Tito should really be proud of beating a fighter at least 10years out of his prime. 

And yes, tito is smug...no denying.


----------



## kobra ki

ALSKI12 said:


> Who Thinks There Should Be A Class For The Old Timers ... I Definatly Think That Old Fighters From The Ufc Beginnings Like Shamrock And Gracie Should Fight Each Other And Not Mess Around With The New Generation Thats Equipt To Kill Them ? I Was Rooting Fopr Shamrock Just Cus He Is Old Like Me ... But After First Bet Down .... And Now Hearing About This One ... Its Time To Draw A Line In The Dirt And Have A Seniors Division Just Like Golf !


better Idea. How bout they not let these once greats fight anymore becuase of the diminishment of their skills. I like rubber matches, but recovery for these fighters would long and difficult.


----------



## ALSKI12

*shamrock vs gracie ?*

Kobra Ki ... Well I Think That If Shamrock Was To Ever Fight Again It Should Be Against Gracie Or Severen ? Who Would You Like To See Shamrock Fight If He Was To Fight Again ?


----------



## The Don

ALSKI12 said:


> Who Thinks There Should Be A Class For The Old Timers ... I Definatly Think That Old Fighters From The Ufc Beginnings Like Shamrock And Gracie Should Fight Each Other And Not Mess Around With The New Generation Thats Equipt To Kill Them ? I Was Rooting Fopr Shamrock Just Cus He Is Old Like Me ... But After First Bet Down .... And Now Hearing About This One ... Its Time To Draw A Line In The Dirt And Have A Seniors Division Just Like Golf !


Actually I think it might be cool to do... These fighters still get to do what they love.. not forced into retirmeent or to fight guys half there age who as it is becoming obvious are just much more well rounded fighters... plus these names will still draw crowds and the fights would be more evenly matched.


----------



## crazykaty

Well, the Ortiz - Shamrock fight turned out just like I thought it would. Tito was rainin' down those elbows, Ken wasn't responding and Herb did his job. Yes, Ken is older than Tito, but, so what? I always believed that if you can't back up your mouth, don't open it.  The "Pitbull" and Sylvia fight was just o.k. I really thought AA was gonna' come with a lot more, but, I reckon they were both playin' it safe with the belt on the line. :dunno: I thought Yves was gonna' need to call the Red Cross to get a pint of blood !! I haven't seen that much blood in awhile !  I'm glad Mir won the decision, but, I really didn't have it figured that way!  I still enjoyed every minute of it! Until next time -------


----------



## pyRo

That first fight put more blood on the floor than all the other fights combined. That was a nasty cut on his scalp.


----------



## Ken Shamrock

Man if you could see how angry my friend & I were at the ref stopping Ortiz/Shamrock, we were so pissed off I was ready to ****in' turn off the PPV after that bullshit. I was pulling for Shamrock to win so bad. I hope they have a 3rd fight and no bullshit stoppage. Shamrock would never give up like that.



Arlovski/Sylvia was an amazing fight, I was so happy it went all 5 rounds it was a very defensive fight but Sylvia landed the best shots.


Mir/Christison almost put my friend & I to sleep! We just kept making fun of how horribly slow that fight was.


Burkman/Neer was very good. It was beyond me why the crowd was booing, probably because of the bullshit of Ortiz/Shamrock. Burkman hit two amazing slams and it was obvious he was winning.


Yves bled pretty damn bad, it was just really nasty to see all over the octagon and they didn't clean it.


----------



## The Don

Ken Shamrock said:


> Man if you could see how angry my friend & I were at the ref stopping Ortiz/Shamrock, we were so pissed off I was ready to ****in' turn off the PPV after that bullshit. I was pulling for Shamrock to win so bad. I hope they have a 3rd fight and no bullshit stoppage. Shamrock would never give up like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Arlovski/Sylvia was an amazing fight, I was so happy it went all 5 rounds it was a very defensive fight but Sylvia landed the best shots.
> 
> 
> Mir/Christison almost put my friend & I to sleep! We just kept making fun of how horribly slow that fight was.
> 
> 
> Burkman/Neer was very good. It was beyond me why the crowd was booing, probably because of the bullshit of Ortiz/Shamrock. Burkman hit two amazing slams and it was obvious he was winning.
> 
> 
> Yves bled pretty damn bad, it was just really nasty to see all over the octagon and they didn't clean it.


its hard to clean blood up properly on that kinda of surface in the middle of a series of matches without pulling the mats up and such.. they really had no choice.. if it were a boxing/wrestling style ring, they could change it out in minutes...


----------



## biggus

when is the ufc gonna get some real heavyweights in the game. pride has all the heavyweights.


----------



## rara

*just like boxing*

i'm sorry, but i feel the "new" UFC is bullshit. its become the same as boxing and its all about the money....Shamrock is my all time favorite tied with the Iceman, but i'm sorry to say i think the old timers are starting to take dives. think about it. not one can beat these guys at least once? Frank Shamrock can take tito, but ken who can take Frank cant? B.S. and when Ken fought rich Franklin, what was with the high kicks? when is the last time you saw a grappler kicking above the waist...lol..B.S. Gracie, who lives by never turning your back to someone....loses that way....lol....gets up and is fine...where is the fight? If Ken was to win this fight who would he fight next? No one, no money there, Tito wins....oh now we have a set up for the chuck liddell fight. good marketing if you ask me. i just miss when it was real fighting, but its all about sanctioning the fight in the U.S. and making money. Shit, i've been hit 10 times in a row and looked non responsive and then knocked the piss out of the guy....its happened a thousand times in the UFC before. I'm just really over it...my last fight will probably be Iceman/Ortiz 2 just to see a real non shit talker be victorious again and then i'm done.....sorry this is all over the road, i just woke up....


----------



## Gman

rara said:


> i'm sorry, but i feel the "new" UFC is bullshit. its become the same as boxing and its all about the money....Shamrock is my all time favorite tied with the Iceman, but i'm sorry to say i think the old timers are starting to take dives. think about it. not one can beat these guys at least once? Frank Shamrock can take tito, but ken who can take Frank cant? B.S. and when Ken fought rich Franklin, what was with the high kicks? when is the last time you saw a grappler kicking above the waist...lol..B.S. Gracie, who lives by never turning your back to someone....loses that way....lol....gets up and is fine...where is the fight? If Ken was to win this fight who would he fight next? No one, no money there, Tito wins....oh now we have a set up for the chuck liddell fight. good marketing if you ask me. i just miss when it was real fighting, but its all about sanctioning the fight in the U.S. and making money. Shit, i've been hit 10 times in a row and looked non responsive and then knocked the piss out of the guy....its happened a thousand times in the UFC before. I'm just really over it...my last fight will probably be Iceman/Ortiz 2 just to see a real non shit talker be victorious again and then i'm done.....sorry this is all over the road, i just woke up....


Hmm, interesting observations... makes you wonder. However, I think Ken only has himself to blame for losing this one. After watching the replay a few times on Youtube, it was clear Ken was doing absolutely nothing to block or defend himself against those elbows, and regardless of what you think about UFC rules, Ken knows he needed to do that. Yes, I've seen some other UFC fights go longer under similar circumstances, but I don't think Ken took a dive here. I think he was rocked, and forgot where he was for a moment. His head was bouncing like a basketball. Sure, he got right up complaining about it afterwards, but that's a fighter's instinct. I've seen boxers who were so punch-drunk they couldn't even walk, arguing with the ref for stopping it.


----------



## ranger595

Gman said:


> Hmm, interesting observations... makes you wonder. However, I think Ken only has himself to blame for losing this one. After watching the replay a few times on Youtube, it was clear Ken was doing absolutely nothing to block or defend himself against those elbows, and regardless of what you think about UFC rules, Ken knows he needed to do that. Yes, I've seen some other UFC fights go longer under similar circumstances, but I don't think Ken took a dive here. I think he was rocked, and forgot where he was for a moment. His head was bouncing like a basketball. Sure, he got right up complaining about it afterwards, but that's a fighter's instinct. I've seen boxers who were so punch-drunk they couldn't even walk, arguing with the ref for stopping it.



Or when Ken Taps four times against Gracie and wasn't sure why the fight stopped....

Yes, you can't argue with it, but it was quick....


----------



## theboz19

*My assessment!*

AA vs Sylvia: Horrible fight. Neither of them wanted the title, they didn't want to be knocked out. I liked AA's strategy and thought that he could win by out scoring Tim. The last round I think AA just wanted to go home. His jabs were a foot away. He couldn't have thought that he was winning at that point but I think he really did. Tim's hands looked faster than ever. These two guys respected each other way too much. 

Ortiz vs Shamrock: Please let Ken retire already. Herb Dean had no choice. If you get hit with 6 bionic elbows without even putting one hand up or at least trying to avoid them, the ref has to stop that fight. Nice burst at first for Ken but the take down defense and overall wrestling skills of Tito took over quickly and then the rain of elbows started. Tito shouldn't waste any more of his time on this washed up fighter. 

Mir vs Christinson: Mir looked completely drugged up (I've noticed a lot of the fighters look that way, and I don't mean steroids, I mean speed, coke, type of drugs). I didn't think he won the fight. Both of these guys need a lot of work if they would like to be seen in more fights.

Yves vs ?: Yves got cut bad and I thought he was going to bleed to death before big John sent him to see the doctor. It was good to let him finish the first round and then stop the fight.

Monson vs ?: Because of the 5 round bore fest I only got to see about 10 seconds of Monson smashing some guys face in. With no other contenders out there, this has to be the next guy that Tim will face. No use for Tim to fight Mir unless he just wants to beat the snot out of somebody. 

It will be nice to see 2 super aggressive fighters like Wanderlei and Iceman go at it. I'm tiring of some of these guys that get their shot and then appear to be camera shy or something. Tank Abbott might have been a horrible tactical fighter but at least you knew that he was gonna keep throwing punches until the end of the fight.


----------



## kixcanada

*Ortiz Is The Man!!!*

This is why I love him!!!
Any woman loves a man who does what he says.
Shamrock should be ashamed not only does he come up short as a coach,
But you'd think he would retire with a little grace considering his history.
Move over grandpa!!!! 
My Tito will only excel further from here.
But Next time honey........ a minute flat okay?
lol.


----------



## gabb

Just watched it and that was complete bull-shit i have to say. noway that fight should have been stopped.


----------



## Octagon Girl

The only reason Shamrock went on Ultimate Fighter in the first place is because he knew he would get to fight Tito in the end. He wasn't there to train and he wasn't there to care. He was just waiting the whole thing out so he could have another chance with Tito again, the show was just a means to get him in the ring.


----------



## Rambo

*dork*

Did anyone check out that dorky guy that was walking with Shamrock back to the locker room? He was real pissed off and was yelling at the camera. It made me laugh. :laugh:

Shamrock should be thanking the ref. he might have saved his life or at least any further brain damage.


----------



## putmeonhold

*Yup*

I agree a million % with Octagon girl about Shamrock. He definatly just went through the motions for another crack at Ortiz. The fight, should've been stopped ( unfortunatly ) as hard as that is for me to admit because I love Shamrock. The elbows don't have to hurt, they just have to go un-answered. No other fighter would be given different treatment by the referee. The only thing this fight did for me was change my mind about Ken. When ya really think about it, a record of 26 - 10 - 2 ( going into Ken vs. Tito - II ) really ain't that good. Somebody remind me why he's a hall of famer???


----------



## Rambo

putmeonhold said:


> Somebody remind me why he's a hall of famer???


first of all I dont like the guy. but he's a hall a famer for what he did for the sport, not for what he did in the octagon. by fighting everywhere and everyone, and by joining the WWF he helped put UFC and MMA on the map.


----------



## putmeonhold

If that's the case then Dana White should be in the hall of fame too, the can put his picture up next to Joe Rogan


----------



## ALSKI12

*For The Guy Who Dosent Like Blood !*

Hey Bro ... If You Dont Like Blood Then You Need Not Be A Fighting Fan ..... I Personally Dont Like To See Bones Broken .. But Thats Way More Extreme Then Blood Which Is Part Of Fighting More Then Not ! Also ... For The People Who Dont Think Shamrock Whould Be Hall Of Fame ... When You Are One Of The First In The Sport And Had A Phisique Unlike Most Of The Others He Stood Out And Made Lots Of Fans So For Being One Of Teh First And Loooking The Way He Did Atracting People To The Sport Is Why He Is Hall Of Fame Is Far As I Am Concerned .


----------



## rara

putmeonhold said:


> . The only thing this fight did for me was change my mind about Ken. When ya really think about it, a record of 26 - 10 - 2 ( going into Ken vs. Tito - II ) really ain't that good. Somebody remind me why he's a hall of famer???



Well i take it you're not a fan then....he was also like a god in japan for shoot fighting. video games, movies, t.v. shows etc.....you really think he's only been in 38 fights? lol....research if you're a fan...i'm not on this forum much but i'm starting to wonder how many of the people on this board have actually been in a fight!


----------



## rara

kixcanada said:


> This is why I love him!!!
> Any woman loves a man who does what he says.
> Shamrock should be ashamed not only does he come up short as a coach,
> But you'd think he would retire with a little grace considering his history.
> Move over grandpa!!!!
> My Tito will only excel further from here.
> But Next time honey........ a minute flat okay?
> lol.



please do me a favor and dissappear! can people please have a little respect for what these people go through to get where they've been and what they've given to you! I know for a fact that shamrock could destroy prolly any man you've dated or know to this day, he just fell short against tito..this doesnt make him a grandpa, just a person that may not be as good a fighter anymore.

and as for what they've given to you, take mike tyson for example....i know its another sport. most people call him trash or old and washed up...sound like shamrock and gracie comments? you didnt hear these comments when he was giving crazy amounts of joy and good times while he was knocking people out cold at 19yrs of age and breaking records.....whether you like it or not, they've given you great times and plenty of good conversations that made you smile....so have some respect and understand that they gave you this while asking nothing in return....you can say money, but these guys didnt start training for these fights late in age...they were doing it as kids and i'm sure it wasnt for the money....they money was given to them becuase they are good at what they do, we all would take it.....so have some respect please!


----------



## Kierrah

*For the guy who doesn't like to see bones broken;p*

I agree with rara in the post before this one! Broken bone person:Blood, broken bones etc.. its all likely to happen don't be suprised! I'm not a fan of seeing either but I love watching fights.. and when I'm watching them I am to busy getting into the fight to be able to react in discust or whatever. Well, with that iyves fight.. its like his bleeding wouldn't stop and I couldn't help but say OMFG stop the fight already damn.. ick!:cheeky4: Even if someone is all for blood baths and broken limbs..I would expect them to still be like OMFG! :dunno:


----------



## holla-well

Octagon Girl said:


> The only reason Shamrock went on Ultimate Fighter in the first place is because he knew he would get to fight Tito in the end. He wasn't there to train and he wasn't there to care. He was just waiting the whole thing out so he could have another chance with Tito again, the show was just a means to get him in the ring.



ya thats true but he still shouldve trained his so called "team".


----------



## holla-well

gabb said:


> Just watched it and that was complete bull-shit i have to say. noway that fight should have been stopped.


ik, but ken wasnt defending him self so the ref decided to stop it. i wanted to see a longer fight & still have Ortiz win.


----------



## holla-well

crazykaty said:


> Well, the Ortiz - Shamrock fight turned out just like I thought it would. Tito was rainin' down those elbows, Ken wasn't responding and Herb did his job. Yes, Ken is older than Tito, but, so what? I always believed that if you can't back up your mouth, don't open it.  The "Pitbull" and Sylvia fight was just o.k. I really thought AA was gonna' come with a lot more, but, I reckon they were both playin' it safe with the belt on the line. :dunno: I thought Yves was gonna' need to call the Red Cross to get a pint of blood !! I haven't seen that much blood in awhile !  I'm glad Mir won the decision, but, I really didn't have it figured that way!  I still enjoyed every minute of it! Until next time -------



ya but i still wouldve liked it to be a longer fight. Joe stevenson did an asome job that night. Ive never saw that much blood in the octagon befor.


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## holla-well

The Don said:


> its hard to clean blood up properly on that kinda of surface in the middle of a series of matches without pulling the mats up and such.. they really had no choice.. if it were a boxing/wrestling style ring, they could change it out in minutes...



they should make layers of sheets so all u have to do if some1 bleeds like that u just pull it up.


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## masterdrummer11

ALSKI12 said:


> Hey everyone ... I saw on a commercial a while back there was a site to watch the fights on the net after it was finished ? Does anyone know the exact web addy to go ? Thanks for your time .. AL


video.ufc.com


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## James

*No Offence*

No Offence to the Ortiz fellas ... But that stopage was total BS !!! I mean comeone Shamrock was not dazed in the least ... as soon as the ref stopped the fight Ken was like WTF ??? AND so was pretty much anyone who was watchin it !!!!
I mean come the hell on ... u let a dewd damn near bleed to death like 2 matches b4 this one and u stop the fight b4 either of them even have a Damn Shinner (black eye for u that dont know )
I am sorry but some peeps only got 61 for that fight and it was stopped for some bs !!!! sorry GAY ASS FIGHT THEY NEED TO TRY AGAIN !!!!
seen a better fight by some grls @ the bar I bounce @ !!!:cheeky4:


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## AxL

do you bounce at a gay bar? because i know some lesbians that can flat kick ass 
fight should have lsted a bit longer even if the result mayhave been the same, one never knows. I was and am still disappointed, thats one dvd I wont be adding to my collection.


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## holla-well

AxL said:


> do you bounce at a gay bar? because i know some lesbians that can flat kick ass
> fight should have lsted a bit longer even if the result mayhave been the same, one never knows. I was and am still disappointed, thats one dvd I wont be adding to my collection.



NO, i am not a lesbian.lol. i am tough though(hey im a catcher...what do u expect)ya i would've liked the fight to last longer also but ken was not defending himself so the ref. thought he should call it.oh well im just glad that tito won.& oh ya im not old enough to even drink let alone go to the bar.


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## hawkster4

*Ufc 61*

Ive got to admit when i watched UFC 61 the joe stevenson vs yves edwards was amazing like joe stevenson got him busted pretty good i tohught that the bleeding wasnt going to stop but i thought he should have fought for one more round and the Ortiz vs Shamrock was very dissappointing one minute and eighteen seconds like dat was Shamrocks fault i thought he would have done better than that at least two rounds with Ortiz but other than that it was good. Cant wait for UFC 62 LIDELL VS SOBRAL COM ON LIDELL


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