# Beatdown Bully (Jake Shields)



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

He is supposedly in tonight's episode. Everyone should tune in and lets see what Shield's striking looks compared to your average Joe instead of a professional fighter. :thumb02:


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

When I heard Jake Shields was going to be the next MMA fighter on the show, I got all uppity and wet. +rep for reminding me about this bud!


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

CornbreadBB said:


> When I heard Jake Shields was going to be the next MMA fighter on the show, I got all uppity and wet. +rep for reminding me about this bud!


Haha your welcome, yea im pretty excited about this episode.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

I'm pretty sure the kid stuffed a take down once with a sprawl and got out of 1 armbar. Pretty impressive eh?


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

So how did Shields do?


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

I know you guys just watch it for Big John, like I do.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

Man Jake didn't do as good as I thought he would. He only went for arm bars and nothing else. Stand up looked pretty sloppy too.

BTW the show is called Bully Beatdown.


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

I hope that isn't any indication as to how his fight with Lawler will be.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

yorT said:


> Man Jake didn't do as good as I thought he would. He only went for arm bars and nothing else. Stand up looked pretty sloppy too.
> 
> BTW the show is called Bully Beatdown.


Yea i realized after that i twisted the title. Heh yea i figured his standup would look bad. It doesn't go on for another hour here.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

I think the kid probably had a wrestling backround, he was doing too well not to have some sort of training yeah?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

CornbreadBB said:


> I think the kid probably had a wrestling backround, he was doing too well not to have some sort of training yeah?


He was in shape so i figured he did something. Man isn't Jake in like the top 5 in welterweight?? What a disappointing performance from someone like that. I think he was more tired then the kid was when they were grappling. His standup also looked atrocious. If it wasn't for those kicks i don't know if he would have even put him down.


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## HeavyRob (Nov 3, 2008)

swpthleg said:


> I know you guys just watch it for Big John, like I do.


Like you're actually calling us out... hah. We won't deny it. I'll even go as far to say I made my username as an homage to him. though it kinda comes off like I'm obese...

(Swp, you'd know this. is it: "an homage" or "a homage?" I'm pretty sure it's pronounced "ohm-adj" but I'll pretend I didn't learn that from Criss Angel)


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Shields standup is absolutely pathetic.


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## Ew0k187 (Feb 18, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> He was in shape so i figured he did something. *Man isn't Jake in like the top 5 in welterweight??* What a disappointing performance from someone like that. I think he was more tired then the kid was when they were grappling. His standup also looked atrocious. If it wasn't for those kicks i don't know if he would have even put him down.


are you kidding me? jake shields is trash, especially compared to whatever real top 5 there is. havent you seen his last fight...?
im not trying to pick on you but have you seen any of his fights?

they're bad lol

i think they say on the show that hes top 5 but hes sh*t compared to a lot of the welterweights out there. watch one of his fights and you'll see what i mean


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

HeavyRob said:


> Like you're actually calling us out... hah. We won't deny it. I'll even go as far to say I made my username as an homage to him. though it kinda comes off like I'm obese...
> 
> (Swp, you'd know this. is it: "an homage" or "a homage?" I'm pretty sure it's pronounced "ohm-adj" but I'll pretend I didn't learn that from Criss Angel)


It's "an." and your pronunciation is correct. The same rule is in effect as when we say "an historical event" or similar.

Criss Angel said homage? AAAHAHAHAHAAAA!


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

Ew0k187 said:


> are you kidding me? jake shields is trash, especially compared to whatever real top 5 there is. havent you seen his last fight...?
> im not trying to pick on you but have you seen any of his fights?
> 
> they're bad lol
> ...


Dude is in the top 10 WW without question. I mean all he did was beat Daley, Okami, Saku, Condit, etc. Deff not a good MMA fighter. Have you seen anything _besides_ his last fight?


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Another forum member was kind enough to school me on Jake Shields awhile ago, and his record is pretty good, IMO. I don't know wtf is up with all the Jake Shields hate I've seen in the past 4-5 months on here.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

CornbreadBB said:


> Dude is in the top 10 WW without question. I mean all he did was beat Daley, Okami, Saku, Condit, etc. Deff not a good MMA fighter. Have you seen anything _besides_ his last fight?


Why is everyone hating on Shields?:confused02: He has a great record and I thought he did great on Bully beatdown. Yeah, the guy got out of an arm bar, but so what. He was trying as hard as he could to slap on as many subs as he could in three minutes. In a real MMA fight, it wouldn't matter how many he landed. He would only need one.

Also, his standup looked fine to me. He landed practically every strike he threw and beat the crap out of the kid. That is sufficient in my book.

Damn there are a lot of haters on MMAF lately.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

CornbreadBB said:


> I think the kid probably had a wrestling backround, he was doing too well not to have some sort of training yeah?


Not sure, he did say something about the ground is where he feels most comfortable.



Davisty69 said:


> Why is everyone hating on Shields?:confused02: He has a great record and I thought he did great on Bully beatdown. Yeah, the guy got out of an arm bar, but so what. He was trying as hard as he could to slap on as many subs as he could in three minutes. In a real MMA fight, it wouldn't matter how many he landed. He would only need one.
> 
> Also, his standup looked fine to me. He landed practically every strike he threw and beat the crap out of the kid. That is sufficient in my book.
> 
> Damn there are a lot of haters on MMAF lately.


Man all he went for was arm bars, didn't try any other submissions and was only able to get 3 off. Also his stand up was very crappy, looked almost as bad as the other dude.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Ew0k187 said:


> are you kidding me? jake shields is trash, especially compared to whatever real top 5 there is. havent you seen his last fight...?
> im not trying to pick on you but have you seen any of his fights?
> 
> they're bad lol
> ...


I hate to admit this but iv never seen any of his fights. My friend saw the last one and told me Shields standup is horrible. I went by mmaweekly.com and he is ranked number 4 on there which is why i said isnt he top 5.


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## Ew0k187 (Feb 18, 2009)

CornbreadBB said:


> Dude is in the top 10 WW without question. I mean all he did was beat Daley, Okami, Saku, Condit, etc. Deff not a good MMA fighter. Have you seen anything _besides_ his last fight?


he beat daley, okami, saku, and condit. so your saying these dudes are top 10 WW or somewhere near? the only 2 names i see there that wow me are condit and okami and even they are not considered top 10 WW of the world, so theres something wrong with that. and also, if youve watched any of those fights, jake shields looks like crap, like most of his fights. jake shields i.m.o is highly overrated.:confused03:





> I hate to admit this but iv never seen any of his fights. My friend saw the last one and told me Shields standup is horrible. I went by mmaweekly.com and he is ranked number 4 on there which is why i said isnt he top 5.



i dont blame you. theres a reason not a lot of people have seen this guy fight. mmaweekly is hit and miss with me sometimes but to each his own. if you do happen to come across any of his fights though, im pretty sure you'll see what i mean. he's hella sloppy and makes so many mistakes, it was pretty bad seeing him on that show.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

If you don't like Jake Shields that's one thing. But....sigh... Okay guys listen up. I'm only going to do this one more time. 

Jake Shields is *undefeated since 2004*
He's on an 11 fight win streak. He's finished his last 6 fights. 5 of which in the very first round.

He holds victories over......former WEC WW Champion *Carlos Condit*, he's also beaten *Hayato "Mach" Sakurai*, 1 of the best WW strikers in *Paul Daley*, dangerous WW *Nick Thompson*, UFC MW contender *Yushin Okami*,

He ended Nick "The Goat" Thompsons 12 fight win streak in under a minute of the first round. One of Nicks victems on that win streak is Eddie Alvarez.

*The Saku victory isn't impressive??* Saku has beaten...Caol Uno, Frank Trigg, Mac Danzig, Shinya Aoki (Twice), Jens Pulver, Joachim Hansen and a few more solid fighters.

Jakes only draw is with a guy named......*Misaki*. Misaki has defeated Dan Henderson, Frank Trigg, Dennis Kang, Ed Herman, and a few other names that I'm sure you guys would recognize.

He was the ROTR tournament champion.
Shooto Champion 
EliteXC WW champion

*Non MMA......*

He's a Gracie Jiu-jitsu black belt.

Defeated John Fitch in the Gracie open BJJ tourney.
Defeated Diego Sanchez in a grappling tourney.
Defeated Vincius Magaelhaes in a BJJ match. (vinny from TUF)

This is a WW who moves up in weight class to take on Robbie Lawler because he wants to fight the best in the world. We all knew that if he fought Riggs it would be an easy victory. So did he.

Jake is finishing everybody that he's fighting. And people are having the nerve to call him out on his ranking?? Say what you will. Jake is a beast. His credentials speak for themselves.


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## Ew0k187 (Feb 18, 2009)

J.P. said:


> If you don't like Jake Shields that's one thing. But....sigh... Okay guys listen up. I'm only going to do this one more time.
> 
> Jake Shields is *undefeated since 2004*
> He's on an 11 fight win streak. He's finished his last 6 fights. 5 of which in the very first round.
> ...


sigh and i am only gonna do this one more time.

first of all if your going to judge a fighter on his score and count that as a credential, thats very superficial. his victories over these guys were extremely uneventful, again if youve watched most of his fights.

to call the guys hes defeated top tier would be blasphemy, THIS IS MADNESS

he was the shooto champ, elite xc champ, dang man these organizations have some crazy competition in the welterweight division huh? :confused03:


thats great that hes a gracie jiu jitsu blackbelt, but i am sad to say that that translates poorly into his mma game. thats cool he beat john fitch in bjj, but to say john fitch would destroy jake shields in a fight isnt too far from the truth. after all john fitch does fit into the top 10 WW in the world, definately higher ranking then jake shields in a lot of peoples opinions including my own.

anyways, point being that jake shields is highly overrated and is definately under the top talent that the best WW's in the world possess. if your going to make an argument at least stray from reporting credentials and tell me what makes YOU think hes really up there. besides the fact that *most* of the info. you provided means sh*t.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Ew0k187 said:


> sigh and i am only gonna do this one more time.
> 
> first of all if your going to judge a fighter on his score and count that as a credential, thats very superficial.


So we no longer judge fighters on their ability to win fights and defeat solid opponents?




Ew0k187 said:


> his victories over these guys were extremely uneventful, again if youve watched most of his fights.


A victory is such. Calling a figher overrated because his victories are "uneventful" is a bit more superficial on your behalf.



Ew0k187 said:


> to call the guys hes defeated top tier would be blasphemy, THIS IS MADNESS


Your boy Fitch only really has two impressive victories over Alves and Sanchez. 



Ew0k187 said:


> he was the shooto champ, elite xc champ, dang man these organizations have some crazy competition in the welterweight division huh? :confused03:


Shooto is where he fought Saku. The guy who just killed Aoki in under a minute.




Ew0k187 said:


> thats great that hes a gracie jiu jitsu blackbelt, but i am sad to say that that translates poorly into his mma game.


Right...says the last four of his past five fights that he's ended by submission.




Ew0k187 said:


> thats cool he beat john fitch in bjj, but to say john fitch would destroy jake shields in a fight isnt too far from the truth.


That is a matter of your opinion. Not a fact.




Ew0k187 said:


> after all john fitch does fit into the top 10 WW in the world, definately higher ranking then jake shields in a lot of peoples opinions including my own.


Fitch is ranked higher. He's #3 and Shields is #5



Ew0k187 said:


> anyways, point being that jake shields is highly overrated and is definately under the top talent that the best WW's in the world possess. if your going to make an argument at least stray from reporting credentials and tell me what makes YOU think hes really up there. besides the fact that *most* of the info. you provided means sh*t.


This entire paragraph is not necessary. And whether or not it means "sh*t" in your words to you. You're opinion seems to be based on a disliking towards this fighter in particular.


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## Ew0k187 (Feb 18, 2009)

> So we no longer judge fighters on their ability to win fights and defeat solid opponents?


i never said we didnt. what im saying is there are A LOT more fighters out there that have more "solid" opponents under their belt. a lot more.




> A victory is such. Calling a figher overrated because his victories are "uneventful" is a bit more superficial on your behalf.



not necessarily. i like to see a good fight, just as anyone else does. i am not trying to point fingers but you sound like another one of those josh barnett nut huggers. the dude sits on a guy for 25 minutes and wins. that i.m.o is uneventful. *this is just an example* shields standup and grappling i.m.o is uneventful. sure you can call that an opinion, but the more a 3rd party agrees on an opinion, the closer it is to becoming a fact.




> Your boy Fitch only really has two impressive victories over Alves and Sanchez.


my boy? since when did i adopt john fitch? he has a lot more impressive victories then those two, shall i whip out some credentials? im not even gonna mention the gsp fight. (even though it wasnt a victory)




> Shooto is where he fought Saku. The guy who just killed Aoki in under a minute.



like i said, *most* of your argument was sh*t. this is an acception i.m.o.




> Right...says the last four of his past five fights that he's ended by submission.


you misunderstood. his bjj is extremely crappy *in mma*. i never said he didnt win by sub., but like i said if you watched any of those fights he has big holes in his game. i happened to catch the bully beatdown show last night and i almost barfed watching his grappling. ive seen it before in his past fights too, if your thinking im judging him because of a fake mtv show (mind you the fights are real).





> That is a matter of your opinion. Not a fact.


it is closer to fact then opinion, however. <----why i said it



> Fitch is ranked higher. He's #3 and Shields is #5


that was my point. thank you, lol.





> This entire paragraph is not necessary. And whether or not it means "sh*t" in your words to you. You're opinion seems to be based on a disliking towards this fighter in particular.


lol ok dude you dont understand this is not about liking a fighter, ive said it before and ill say it again. *jake shields is overrated*


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## Ew0k187 (Feb 18, 2009)

> The Saku victory isn't impressive?? Saku has beaten...Caol Uno, Frank Trigg, Mac Danzig, Shinya Aoki (Twice), Jens Pulver, Joachim Hansen and a few more solid fighters.


read my last post



> Jakes only draw is with a guy named......Misaki. Misaki has defeated Dan Henderson, Frank Trigg, Dennis Kang, Ed Herman, and a few other names that I'm sure you guys would recognize.


matchups are matchups. just because misaki beat henderson doesnt mean shields can beat henderson.


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## crispsteez (Jul 1, 2008)

ewok, i don't disagree with what you're saying but i'm curious to see who you have in your top ten at WW.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Ew0k187 said:


> i never said we didnt.


Didn't you just say.........


Ew0k187 said:


> first of all if your going to judge a fighter on his score and count that as a credential, thats very superficial.


Yes you did.



Ew0k187 said:


> not necessarily. i like to see a good fight, just as anyone else does. i am not trying to point fingers but you sound like another one of those josh barnett nut huggers. the dude sits on a guy for 25 minutes and wins. that i.m.o is uneventful.


lol, at not trying to point fingers. I've heard the same arguments about Machida. Fighters have different styles, it's what makes MMA. Jake is defeating solid MMA opponents. And has been for years.



Ew0k187 said:


> sure you can call that an opinion, but the more a 3rd party agrees on an opinion, the closer it is to becoming a fact


WTH?

Opinion + opinion = collective opinion. Not Fact.

Case in point. Collective opinion had Koscheck destroying Paulo Thiago. However all of our collective opinions were not capable bringing such case into fruition.



Ew0k187 said:


> shall i whip out some credentials? im not even gonna mention the gsp fight. (even though it wasnt a victory)


Why would you here? We are talking about notable victories.



Ew0k187 said:


> like i said, *most* of your argument was sh*t. this is an acception *i.m.o*.


So we've established the fact that I'm debating fact against opinion.



Ew0k187 said:


> you misunderstood. his bjj is extremely crappy *in mma*. i never said he didnt win by sub., but like i said if you watched any of those fights he has big holes in his game. i happened to catch the bully beatdown show last night and i almost barfed watching his grappling. ive seen it before in his past fights too, if your thinking im judging him because of a fake mtv show (mind you the fights are real).


As are the fights that he's won in MMA. And the opponents that he holds victories over.



Ew0k187 said:


> it is closer to fact then opinion, however. <----why i said it


A fact is a fact and an opinion is such. You are once again merley providing your opinion.




Ew0k187 said:


> that was my point. thank you, lol.


I don't recall saying that Jake Shields was ranked over John Fitch. Feel free to rereference if need be.




Ew0k187 said:


> lol ok dude you dont understand this is not about liking a fighter, ive said it before and ill say it again. *jake shields is overrated*


That a fact? lol


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Jake Shields has probably the best credentials of anyone on BBD which is why it was confusing to see him do only so-so. I chalk it up to his opponent's athleticism. The standup looked much better for shields, but I also have an opinion about the lack of visibility afforded by protective headgear...


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## Ew0k187 (Feb 18, 2009)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Ew0k187 View Post
> i never said we didnt.
> Didn't you just say.........
> ...


i said it was superficial i never said it didnt mean *anything*???



> lol, at not trying to point fingers. I've heard the same arguments about Machida. Fighters have different styles, it's what makes MMA. Jake is defeating solid MMA opponents. And has been for years.


jake shields has a crapload of holes in his game. that has nothing to do with his style. sure hes won fights, most of which are victories over no names...be that opinion? or fact? you be the judge and check out his victories bwahaha



> WTH?
> 
> Opinion + opinion = collective opinion. Not Fact.
> 
> Case in point. Collective opinion had Koscheck destroying Paulo Thiago. However all of our collective opinions were not capable bringing such case into fruition.


so wait a second, how does one come up with a top 10 division of fighters? opinion + opinion. is it a fact that gsp is numero uno? not necessarily but it is *closer* to fact. again, ^why i said it. 




> Why would you here? We are talking about notable victories.


once again, exactly my point. this my good sir is sarcasm.




> So we've established the fact that I'm debating fact against opinion.


so its a fact that jake shields is one of the top 10 WW in the world? very lol worthy thank you for that. like i said just because shields was elite xc champ (lol) doesnt make him in the top 10. looks like we got a good ol' opinion vs. opinion on our hands..a lot of people seem to think more the way i do, however. feel free to ask around if you feel my opinion is bogus.



> As are the fights that he's won in MMA. And the opponents that he holds victories over.


which is why im not giving him that much credit, lol.



> A fact is a fact and an opinion is such. You are once again merley providing your opinion.


as are you, my good sir. like i said, a lot of people tend to think about the situation as i do. 



> I don't recall saying that Jake Shields was ranked over John Fitch. Feel free to rereference if need be.





> Defeated John Fitch in the Gracie open BJJ tourney.


i didnt say you did, lol. i was proving a point, that bjj is not mma.



> That a fact? lol


it is an extremely popular opinion, especially on these boards. shouldnt you know that? after all, you are a super mod


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## GodlyMoose (May 20, 2007)

Not to be to off topic, but when did people start calling Sakurai, "Saku"? Saku, as far as I am concerned belongs to Sakuraba. But I'm no lord of the nicknames, so you can call him what ever you want.


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## BrFighter07 (Jun 16, 2007)

another non mma accomplishment he subbed leo santos(multiple mundial winner and destroyed gsp with a flying armbar) pretty easily


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## BrFighter07 (Jun 16, 2007)

GodlyMoose said:


> Not to be to off topic, but when did people start calling Sakurai, "Saku"? Saku, as far as I am concerned belongs to Sakuraba. But I'm no lord of the nicknames, so you can call him what ever you want.


yeah thats true I was like wtf when did shields fight sakuraba?


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

J.P. said:


> If you don't like Jake Shields that's one thing. But....sigh... Okay guys listen up. I'm only going to do this one more time.
> 
> Jake Shields is *undefeated since 2004*
> He's on an 11 fight win streak. He's finished his last 6 fights. 5 of which in the very first round.
> ...


But did you see him on Bully Beatdown? It was awful. He is a BB under the Gracies going against someone with with no BJJ experience and the only thing he could do was mount then arm bar. That's like one of the first things you learn and he was only able to get it off 4 times successful on only 3. Other episodes the pro's were running through their opponents with all different kinds of subs and these guys were no where near top 15 in there weight class. I'm not doubting him, his credentials are impressive just he looked like crap.



HexRei said:


> Jake Shields has probably the best credentials of anyone on BBD which is why it was confusing to see him do only so-so. I chalk it up to his opponent's athleticism. The standup looked much better for shields, but I also have an opinion about the lack of visibility afforded by protective headgear...


It was so bad I was wondering if he was hold back, but I don't think he was cause his stance looked amateurish and the sub variety was very dull.


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## Zemelya (Sep 23, 2007)

Can anyone post a link to that show ?
Want to see how shitty Jake's game was...

Though, if it's that shitty and even *Ew0k187* sees the holes in his game - how come professional MMA fighters that fought him lost their fights ???


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Ew0k187 said:


> i said it was superficial i never said it didnt mean *anything*???


Really? Because I thought you said..............



Ew0k187 said:


> first of all if your going to judge a fighter on his score and *count that as a credential*, thats very superficial. his victories over these guys were extremely uneventful.


So do you count them as a crediential or don't you Ew0k?



Ew0k said:


> jake shields has a crapload of holes in his game. that has nothing to do with his style. sure hes won fights, most of which are victories over no names...be that opinion? or fact? you be the judge and check out his victories bwahaha


Many fighters hold victories over unknown opponents. Jake Shields holds victories over unknown, and world ranked opponents. 



Ew0k said:


> so wait a second, how does one come up with a top 10 division of fighters? opinion + opinion. is it a fact that gsp is numero uno? not necessarily but it is *closer* to fact. again, ^why i said it.


That comment is inaccurate. A list of world ranked opponents is not opinion + opinion. Maybe this miscomprehension is where your logic is flawed.

It is based on the fighter in questions overall record. W-L-D. The calibur of opponents that he's defeated. The ranking of said opponents. The manner of which he defeats them. 

Whenever a fighter loses he goes down in rankings. None of this is collective opinion. It is based on performance level. Wins and Losses. Finishes. Ranking of opponents.




Ew0k187 said:


> so its a fact that jake shields is one of the top 10 WW in the world? very lol worthy thank you for that.


Yes it is a fact. In fact he's ranked #5. Maybe that will help the lol more?




Ew0k187 said:


> like i said just because shields was elite xc champ (lol) doesnt make him in the top 10. looks like we got a good ol' opinion vs. opinion on our hands


Quite the contrary. The EliteXC title is merley one of his achievments. His carreer is not based on that sole achievment.



Ew0k187 said:


> a lot of people seem to think more the way i do, however. feel free to ask around if you feel my opinion is bogus


You didn't even know know that Shields was world ranked in the top 10. Let alone top 5. Those comments speak in leaps and bounds when discussing the stature of an MMA fighter.




Ew0k187 said:


> which is why im not giving him that much credit, lol.


Notable victories are such. If you're not going to give him credit for them than it goes back to you maybe not liking a fighter as an opinion. Not that the fighter in question isn't accomplished and world ranked.



Ew0k187 said:


> i didnt say you did, lol. i was proving a point, that bjj is not mma.


A point that was stated before you and I engaged in this conversation. Hence the "non MMA" that I typed in bold above the fact when mentioning the Gracie BJJ tournament.



J.P. said:


> That a fact? lol





Ew0k187 said:


> it is an extremely popular opinion


That about sums it up.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

jeeze louise.. Why so much hate for only subbing him 3 times in 3 mins? Anyone with athleticism and an intermediate knowledge of how you can be submitted can scramble out of situations. Its not like the F*uit Booter subbed him or anything, then he got destroyed in the kickboxing even with the amatuer gear on! 
This discussion has entertained me a lot though!


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## bestatwhatido (Apr 14, 2009)

Tyrone Spong is horribly overrated. Dude just sucks.


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

Don't double post. Especially when you're quoting the same thing in the second post with the same responses. :confused02:


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## Ew0k187 (Feb 18, 2009)

> Really? Because I thought you said..............


im not sure if you read my posts thoroughly...go back and reread. all i said was it was superficial..why is that so confusing?



> So do you count them as a crediential or don't you Ew0k?


for the 3rd or 4th time, *yes* i count that as a credential. read the sentence above this one.




> Many fighters hold victories over unknown opponents. Jake Shields holds victories over unknown, and world ranked opponents.


like i said, the large majority of his wins are over unknowns. you can go back and wiki shields if you want again.



> That comment is inaccurate. A list of world ranked opponents is not opinion + opinion. Maybe this miscomprehension is where your logic is flawed.
> 
> It is based on the fighter in questions overall record. W-L-D. The calibur of opponents that he's defeated. The ranking of said opponents. The manner of which he defeats them.
> 
> Whenever a fighter loses he goes down in rankings. None of this is collective opinion. It is based on performance level. Wins and Losses. Finishes. Ranking of opponents.


epic fail. top 10 lists are derived from popular opinion, whether it be from officials or merely the fans. W-L-D are just the influence to bring up this so called top 10. nothing is written in stone...your comment is innacurate.



> Yes it is a fact. In fact he's ranked #5. Maybe that will help the lol more?


yes, according to some bogus mmasite you probably just read. i dont think you understand that there is more than just 1 top 10 WW list floating around. it did make me lol more thank you 



> Quite the contrary. The EliteXC title is merley one of his achievments. His carreer is not based on that sole achievment.


but that sole achievement displays the level of calibur jake shields is fighting in. bam. 



> You didn't even know know that Shields was world ranked in the top 10. Let alone top 5. Those comments speak in leaps and bounds when discussing the stature of an MMA fighter.


what??? when did i say i didnt know this information?? *i said it was retarded*. please, go back and re-read. your ignorance is making me repeat myself.




> Notable victories are such. If you're not going to give him credit for them than it goes back to you maybe not liking a fighter as an opinion. Not that the fighter in question isn't accomplished and world ranked.


well, like i said, i believe you are thinking about this on a different level. not everyone has favorite fighters and not everyone dislikes fighters. if you have watched any of his "notable victories", you'd see where i am coming from about being so judgemental about shields. which leads me to question...have you seen any of his fights?



> A point that was stated before you and I engaged in this conversation. Hence the "non MMA" that I typed in bold above the fact when mentioning the Gracie BJJ tournament.


im sorry i thought this was the general mma section. chuck liddell is an excellent wrestler. did you know that?



> That about sums it up.


sure does, coming from the guy who hasnt pulled out a single factm, yet claims to. lol.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Ew0k187 said:


> im not sure if you read my posts thoroughly...go back and reread. all i said was it was superficial..why is that so confusing?


You asked if I took his score and counted it as a credential? IF so I was being "Superficial" in your words.

If you do the same, which you've just admitted that you do than this would negate your post.



Ew0k187 said:


> for the 3rd or 4th time, *yes* i count that as a credential. read the sentence above this one.


Just did. So why call my views superficial when you admittingly do the same thing?



Ew0k187 said:


> like i said, the large majority of his wins are over unknowns. you can go back and wiki shields if you want again.


I don't need wiki for Jake Shields record. Or any other MMA fighter. I watch the fights. Jake has victories over unknowns just like every other mma fighter. He also holds notable victories against great fighters. 



Ewok187 said:


> epic fail. top 10 lists are derived from popular opinion, whether it be from officials or merely the fans. *W-L-D are just the influence to bring up this so called top 10.* nothing is written in stone...your comment is innacurate.


They're the deciding influence. The fact behind the arguments of who's ranked and how. 



Ew0k187 said:


> yes, according to some bogus mmasite you probably just read. i dont think you understand that there is more than just 1 top 10 WW list floating around. it did make me lol more thank you


Wow. Jake is top 5 on almost every single 10 list.




Ew0k187 said:


> but that sole achievement displays the level of calibur jake shields is fighting in. bam.


No, his notable victories do.




Ew0k187 said:


> what??? when did i say i didnt know this information??


Right here...............



Ew0k187 said:


> so its a fact that jake shields is one of the top 10 WW in the world? like i said just because shields was elite xc champ (lol) doesnt make him in the top 10. looks like we got a good ol' opinion vs. opinion on our hands.


^^see?



Ew0k187 said:


> well, like i said, i believe you are thinking about this on a different level. not everyone has favorite fighters and not everyone dislikes fighters. if you have watched any of his "notable victories", you'd see where i am coming from about being so judgemental about shields. which leads me to question...have you seen any of his fights?


Ew0k! Of course I have.




Ew0k187 said:


> im sorry i thought this was the general mma section. chuck liddell is an excellent wrestler. did you know that?


This is just getting painful now.





Ew0k187 said:


> sure does, coming from the guy who hasnt pulled out a single factm, yet claims to. lol.


Looks like somebody is not reading my posts correctly.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

This is a hilariously one sided debate.

You gotta admit though JP, Shields striking and zero head movement will do him in fighting any top guy.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

TheNegation said:


> This is a hilariously one sided debate.
> 
> You gotta admit though JP, Shields striking and zero head movement will do him in fighting any top guy.


He does def need to work on his standing game.


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## Ew0k187 (Feb 18, 2009)

> You asked if I took his score and counted it as a credential? IF so I was being "Superficial" in your words.
> 
> If you do the same, which you've just admitted that you do than this would negate your post.


and how would that negate my post? i said its a contributing factor i wouldnt use this to support my failure of an argument, however.



> Just did. So why call my views superficial when you admittingly do the same thing?


roflmao. lrn 2 read.




> I don't need wiki for Jake Shields record. Or any other MMA fighter. I watch the fights. Jake has victories over unknowns just like every other mma fighter. He also holds notable victories against great fighters.


yes, weve established all fighters fight unknowns. however, the *large* majority over victories are unknowns. i dont think you have comprehended this just yet. you used the same 4 or 5 guys as an example, and in your opinion they are "notable". 



> They're the deciding influence. The fact behind the arguments of who's ranked and how.


top 10 lists arent made by W-L-D, they are made by people. if that wasnt the case, all top 10 lists would be the same. i think thats where your logic is skewed.



> Wow. Jake is top 5 on almost every single 10 list.


errr...have fun reading shitdog and mmaweekly, lol.



> No, his notable victories do.


once again mr.fact, this is opinion.



> Right here...............
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Ew0k187 View Post
> ...


again lol, read carefully. i never said i didnt know the he has been *considered* in the top 10. with that questino i was asking you if it was a *fact*. please, instead of trying to twist and pick apart my words, pay more attention to your own. read carefully.



> Ew0k! Of course I have.


then you must know of his lack of skills as a fighter. hence why i said he is overrated, lol.



> This is just getting painful now.


lol, yes it is. its been painful ever since you used shields bjj accomplishments as a basis for his credentials. the dude let an inexperienced kid slip out of his armlock. this has *fail* written all over it...



> Looks like somebody is not reading my posts correctly.


umm..ya i have lol. elaborate if your going to say something like that, otherwise your just talking out of your ass


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## sove (Apr 7, 2007)

swpthleg said:


> It's "an." and your pronunciation is correct. The same rule is in effect as when we say "an historical event" or similar.
> 
> Criss Angel said homage? AAAHAHAHAHAAAA!


Oh man, I'm going to be that guy who corrects someone's English on the Internet. It's especially dangerous when that someone has an English degree. (You have an English degree, right?)  

It's pronounced hom-age, not oh-mag... unless you're french. I promise. I'm only speaking to the pronunciation in American English. I can't speak to the pronunciation in British English. You are American?

Please don't hate me!

Oh, and Bully Beatdown sounds like it may be interesting for an episode or two. I'll have to check it out.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Jesus Ewok, what do you think being top ten is? Beinf top anyhting is when you are consistently ranked there by a majority of people. What the hell did you mean when you said he wasn't?


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## Ew0k187 (Feb 18, 2009)

> Jesus Ewok, what do you think being top ten is? Beinf top anyhting is when you are consistently ranked there by a majority of people. What the hell did you mean when you said he wasn't?


well, as said before, *i.m.o* jake doesnt belong in the top 10. thats my opinion however. thats not what this is about though, if youve read the past couple of pages my point is that jake shields is an *extremely* overrated fighter. put him against an experienced well rounded fighter...youll see the result. im definately willing to put big bucks on this. if your gonna go out and use paul dailey as something to brag about..well, i just feel sorry about that lol.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Ew0k187 said:


> i said its a contributing factor i wouldnt use this to support my failure of an argument, however.


So...can a fighter be #1 in his weight class coming off of three losses? Of course not. Because of his current loss ratio. Wins are equivilent. W/L is the supporting factor.




Ew0k187 said:


> roflmao. lrn 2 read.


This statment will do nothing to add merit to your posts.



Ew0k187 said:


> yes, weve established all fighters fight unknowns. however, the *large* majority over victories are unknowns. i dont think you have comprehended this just yet. you used the same 4 or 5 guys as an example, and in your opinion they are "notable".


I use the fact that he's defeated some pretty stiff competition to earn his world ranking. 

You say he's boring so he's overrated.

Who's argument holds more water here?



Ew0k187 said:


> top 10 lists arent made by W-L-D, they are made by people. i think thats where your logic is skewed.


They are made by people who tally W/L/D records in respective divisions. As well as (T)KOs and Submissions.




Ew0k187 said:


> errr...have fun reading shitdog and mmaweekly, lol.


I enjoy reading all things regarding MMA. It's my favorite subject.



Ew0k187 said:


> , instead of trying to twist and pick apart my words, pay more attention to your own. read carefully.


I don't need to twist your words. You've done a great job of doing that yourself.




Ew0k187 said:


> then you must know of his lack of skills as a fighter. hence why i said he is overrated, lol.


If a fighter needs work in certain areas, it just means he needs some work.

However if he is defeating seasoned and solid opponents than that means that he is earning his ranking.




Ew0k187 said:


> lol, yes it is. its been painful ever since you used shields bjj accomplishments as a basis for his credentials. the dude let an inexperienced kid slip out of his armlock. this has *fail* written all over it...


As an MMA Fighter you don't beleive that a Jiu-Jitsu black belt should be mentioned in credientials? Should we stop mentioning ADCC and NCAA as well?



Ew0k187 said:


> umm..ya i have lol. elaborate if your going to say something like that, otherwise your just talking out of your ass


This response again does nothing to sustain your argument. Let's stick to discussing MMA.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

JP, I'm sorry this dude is right. Why would anyone ever base a fighter on who they have beaten and their skillset?! That's just crazy. It's all based on who is the most exciting fighter....take Houston Alexander, def the top LHW.


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## Ew0k187 (Feb 18, 2009)

> So...can a fighter be #1 in his weight class coming off of three losses? Of course not. Because of his current loss ratio. Wins are equivilent. W/L is the supporting factor.


like i said, this is a superficial way of looking at it. i have acknowledged this in saying it *helps* people come up with a top 10.



> This statment will do nothing to add merit to your posts.


as do..most of yours..



> I use the fact that he's defeated some pretty stiff competition to earn his world ranking.
> 
> You say he's boring so he's overrated.
> 
> Who's argument holds more water here?


in your opinion, he has defeated some stiff competition. once again your ignorance is making me repeat myself, i also said he is missing a fair amount of skill to be considered the calibur of fighter he is. i never said he is overrated just because he's boring, just because i said his fights are uneventful *doesnt* contribute to the fact he is overrated. once again..twisting it up..lol. 



> They are made by people who tally W/L/D records in respective divisions. As well as (T)KOs and Submissions.


exactly. these people take more than w/l/d into mind however, thats why not every top 10 is the same.



> I don't need to twist your words. You've done a great job of doing that yourself.


not at all haha



> If a fighter needs work in certain areas, it just means he needs some work.
> 
> However if he is defeating seasoned and solid opponents than that means that he is earning his ranking.


once again, in your opinion most of these guys are "seasoned" and "solid". refer to his fights to see his kickboxing and grappling. ive trained mma for the past 4 years so i mean its kinda hard not to notice it.




> As an MMA Fighter you don't beleive that a Jiu-Jitsu black belt should be mentioned in credientials? Should we stop mentioning ADCC and NCAA as well?


i believe you should mention that in his credentials. however, my point being his black belt doesnt translate well into mma. see MMA is a mix of different styles of combat, and in order to be good at MMA you have to successfully combine these styles. jake shields is an incomplete MMA fighter.



> This response again does nothing to sustain your argument. Let's stick to discussing MMA.



well, it is in regards to your previous silly statement...lol


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## Ew0k187 (Feb 18, 2009)

> JP, I'm sorry this dude is right. Why would anyone ever base a fighter on who they have beaten and their skillset?! That's just crazy. It's all based on who is the most exciting fighter....take Houston Alexander, def the top LHW.


lol
if youve been paying attention, a lot of my argument is that jake shields skill set just sucks in general.

hes beaten 4 to 5 popular guys, and just because they are popular doesnt mean they are top calibur fighters.

just because i said jake shields is boring doesnt have anything to do with the fact that he is overrated. i just said it cuz..well jake shields is boring lol.

and houston alexander is an ultimate failure, just like your painfully sarcastic post.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Ew0k187, who you got in your top 10 WW? And where would you rank Shields? Just curious.


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## Ew0k187 (Feb 18, 2009)

> Ew0k187, who you got in your top 10 WW? And where would you rank Shields? Just curious.


hey pal, sorry i think you posted before i didnt quite get around to it

i wouldnt really listen to my top 10 only because its somewhat biased, most of the dudes at the gym i go to are in the top 10 WW list so i dont know haha

however i strongly believe shields just doesnt belong up there because he hasnt really shown the skill of a great mma fighter, just a mediocre one. along with the fact that he hasnt really faced the stiff competition that really is out there.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

Ew0k187 said:


> lol
> if youve been paying attention, a lot of my argument is that jake shields skill set just sucks in general.
> 
> hes beaten 4 to 5 popular guys, and just because they are popular doesnt mean they are top calibur fighters.
> ...


You caught my sarcasm? Nicely done! A lot of the guys I mentioned happen to be popular (like Okami :confused05 but that doesn't mean they don't have skill. I honestly do not get what you are basing your top 10 on...besides people that you know.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

So basically.................




Ew0k187 said:


> first of all if your going to judge a fighter on his score and count that as a credential, thats very superficial.


Than you say.......



Ew0k187 said:


> i said it was superficial i never said it didnt mean *anything*???


And obviously........



Ew0k187 said:


> *the more a 3rd party agrees on an opinion, the closer it is to becoming a fact*.




So than........



Ew0k187 said:


> its been painful ever since you used shields bjj accomplishments as a basis for his credentials.


But than you say.........



Ew0k187 said:


> i believe you should mention that in his credentials.


Back to your opinion that................



Ew0k187 said:


> well, as said before, *i.m.o* jake doesnt belong in the top 10. thats my opinion however. thats not what this is about though, if youve read the past couple of pages my point is that jake shields is an *extremely* overrated fighter. .


This claim makes sense because..........



Ew0k187 said:


> i wouldnt really listen to my top 10 only because its somewhat biased


But this is okay because...........



Ew0k187 said:


> ..a lot of people seem to think more the way i do,


And obviously..............



Ew0k187 said:


> your ignorance is making me repeat myself,


I think we all get it.....


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

I agree with Ewok that shields is over-rated. He may be top 10 but most definately not top 5. He has solid victories, but he doesn't win them in a dominating or spectacular fashion. Like you said JP, fighters are ranked by WLD, where their opponents are ranked and how they beat them. Shields has never really impressed me as anything more than a smaller Matt Hughes :\


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## Ew0k187 (Feb 18, 2009)

> I agree with Ewok that shields is over-rated. He may be top 10 but most definately not top 5. He has solid victories, but he doesn't win them in a dominating or spectacular fashion. Like you said JP, fighters are ranked by WLD, where their opponents are ranked and how they beat them. Shields has never really impressed me as anything more than a smaller Matt Hughes :\


this^


and as for j.p, your just taking everything i say out of context. i hope to god you really are not that stupid, but if you are, i will reserve the right to lol at you. lol 



> You caught my sarcasm? Nicely done! A lot of the guys I mentioned happen to be popular (like Okami ) but that doesn't mean they don't have skill. I honestly do not get what you are basing your top 10 on...besides people that you know.


yeah congrats you happened to mention some..pretty mediocre fighters..i havent based my top 10 on anything just yet, have i? i just know jake shields is not in it, lol.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

> Ew0k187


Keep the discussion about MMA. Don't use insults.

And quit double posting.


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## Ew0k187 (Feb 18, 2009)

> J.P.


the discussion is about mma, when was it not?



> Don't use insults.


get smarter.

and if double posting really bothers you that much then just edit the page yourself super mod


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Take a time out.


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## Rycanto (May 21, 2008)

Well if were back to normal discussion I actually have enjoyed this show. I sort of accept that its another shitty reality show with the usual force fed lines and obvious acting. I just like it for Mayhem and watching some meat head learn what a real ass kicking is. I think that is the realest part of this whole show. I truly don't think these dudes understand how shitty it feels to get repeatedly choked and then clocked in the head.


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