# ***OFFICIAL*** Anthony Pettis vs Clay Guida Pre/Post Fight Thread



## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Please put all posts about this fight on this thread so we won't have to merge it.​


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

guida will make him work for it, but pettis will probably get the KO of the night


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## prolyfic (Apr 22, 2007)

dsmjrv said:


> *guida will make him work for it*, but pettis will probably get the KO of the night


Agree
with highlighted part. I don't think Pettis will stop Guida. I think he has to go 3 hard rounds and we see what this kid's made of. I can't see a KO though, maybe a TKO but don't think he has enough power to put Guida to sleep. And I wouldn't be surprised by another Clay decision.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

"Unleash the Carpenter":thumbsup:


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

this is a great fight to see where pettis stacks up. I'm not sure who I want to pick, Guida will definitely make him work for it and Pettis has shown me a lot. It's just hard to know where the WEC LW's really stack up even though they've been pretty victorious. This is probably the hardest first test for one of them though.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

I'm finding it very difficult picking a winner from this fight. I dont enjoy watching Guida fight. Makes me nauseous. That right there is enough to get be behind Petis.


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

I pick Clay Guida against pretty much everybody outside of bj, gray, and franky, simply because of how tough and well conditioned he is, im not sure pettis will be able to stop guida and im pretty sure he won't be able to keep up. Guida all day.


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## KOSnMIR (Aug 15, 2009)

Really, really hope Pettis comes out of this fight with a win and isn't seriously injured and hope the same happens for Melvin Guillard at UFC 132 so that they could possibly headline UFC "Battle on the Bayou"

It would be a longshot but imagine the fireworks if that fight were to take place. Outside of Maynard, the only two people I see giving Frankie a good run for his money is Pettis and Guillard because of their speed, athlticism, and ability to keep up the same pace and speed as Frankie and possibly outstriking him. Frankie can put either one of their back but wouldn't be able to keep them their or submit them.


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## jaec012 (Aug 4, 2010)

if pettis wins this fight wouldn't he be fighting for the title in his next fight? since technically he is already the number one contender for being the last WEC LW champ

edit" nvm saw the thread about what Dana said pretty jacked up but what can he do about it?


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## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

Guida via active smothering.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Pettis looks like he put on a shit load of muscle. Kid is jacked now.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Just don't really see how Guida can win this fight.

Guida never even wrestled outside of high school, and Pettis was able to successfully avoid being controlled by NIAA All American Bendo, who is a great MMA wrestler and a good grappler overall, and Shane Roller, who is just a level beyond. Three time All American. And Guida still has questionable sub defense in my opinion.

I see Pettis either knocking him out or choking him out.


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## METALLICA_RULES (Feb 12, 2011)

Guida wins this scrap.


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## Bobby Wheeler (Jun 4, 2011)

Was thinking Guida via maulage initially, then I remembered Pettis has a sick ground game.A step up in competition for Pettis, but Guida would be stuck on stupid to stand and bang.Showtime via UD, although would not be suprised if he caught Clay in a triangle.

Not a first timer.New account


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Easy pick, Anthony Pettis. Guida is still the same fighter that got murdered by Florian and beaten by Sanchez, It's been like 5 years and his stand up hasn't improved one bit, nor have any other areas of his game really, maybe his sub defense a little.

It's going to take more than a tenacious fighter with okay wrestling to stop Pettis.


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## RaggaMuffin (Jun 4, 2011)

Pettis to win via decision or maybe a late second round/third round TKO, like nearly everyone else said, Guida wont make it easy for him though.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

If Pettis is as good as he's looked so far, he should be able to stop Guida. Of course Guida will put up a tough fight, but Pettis is very skilled and I think he'll stay calm in a storm, his patience and timing will win him the fight.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I'm picking Guida just because I always do. He's my nail drivin' fish killin long haired hippy homeboy.

What he lacks in skills he makes up for with heart and attitude and cardio. I could watch him vs sanchez at every ufc.

I do believe that Pettis has more skills but, I don't believe that the most skilled fighter always wins.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Guida by RNC


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Just don't really see how Guida can win this fight.
> 
> Guida never even wrestled outside of high school, and Pettis was able to successfully avoid being controlled by NIAA All American Bendo, who is a great MMA wrestler and a good grappler overall, and Shane Roller, who is just a level beyond. Three time All American. And Guida still has questionable sub defense in my opinion.
> 
> I see Pettis either knocking him out or choking him out.


This is an absolutely spot on break down imo. + rep sir


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Pettis might choke on his UFC debut, he has all the physical tools to destroy Guida. I wouldn't be shocked if we don't get an illegal up-kick KO DQ, or a 12/6 Elbow or something.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Pettis is going to kick some ass


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Weird how Guida is the underdog for this fight. I would have placed a bet on him if I didn't hate his guts. Placing a bet on him would make me want to root for him. F*ck that.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

AlphaDawg said:


> Weird how Guida is the underdog for this fight. I would have placed a bet on him if I didn't hate his guts. Placing a bet on him would make me want to root for him. F*ck that.


Pettis will put him under the rug


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> Just don't really see how Guida can win this fight.
> 
> Guida never even wrestled outside of high school, and Pettis was able to successfully avoid being controlled by NIAA All American Bendo, who is a great MMA wrestler and a good grappler overall, and Shane Roller, who is just a level beyond. Three time All American. And Guida still has questionable sub defense in my opinion.
> 
> I see Pettis either knocking him out or choking him out.


There's probably high schoolers that can out wrestle NIAA all americans. Guida has this in the bag.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Pettis will knead him like clay.. :confused05:


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Time for the real main event here!


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

I see Guida making this a boring fight, keeping his distance before timing his shot, and grinding Pettis on the ground with elbows for 3 rounds. I'd rather Pettis took it, but I see Guida coming in with a good gameplan, and taking a boring decision.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

This is what i'm talking about.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Let's see some crazy shit please!


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Danm2501 said:


> I see Guida making this a boring fight, keeping his distance before timing his shot, and grinding Pettis on the ground with elbows for 3 rounds. I'd rather Pettis took it, but I see Guida coming in with a good gameplan, and taking a boring decision.


I hope you suck at predicting fights.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Pettis looks slippery...not a good sign for Guida.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

I really hate Guida's spaz style.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Rauno said:


> I hope you suck at predicting fights.


So do I my friend, so do I. I just see the Jackson version of Guida being much less likely to pull out some crazy shit, and putting on a Sanchez style war again. I think he's going to be methodical, and try to grind a win out.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Nice knees to the ass by Guida.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Damn, Guida's wrestling looks strong. Good first round for him.


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## prolyfic (Apr 22, 2007)

This is going exactly as I thought. Maniacal Smothering by Guida


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Yeah....I don't see Mazzgahitti standing this fight up


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Called it  I see Guida doing exactly the same in rounds 2 and 3.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Not a fan of Guidas relentless single leg dog hump style. I feel Pettis should have won that first just for throwing so many sub attempts, and Guida threw maybe 4 elbows.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Looks like Guida is perfectly content with dry humping for 3 rounds. Great.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Why would he tell him not to throw any right hick kicks. The worst thing you can do is limit an explosive fighter like Pettis' arsenal. He might get taken down anyway, might as well let him try to throw so he can score a knockout.


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## GriffinFanKY (Oct 22, 2007)

Agreed Box I honestly could've gave it to Pettis just for throwing up submissions and Guida doing nothing from the top. But I also value doing work on the ground no matter what position the person is in


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I guess wrestling wins again.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Looks like Pettis is going to need to stop him.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> Why would he tell him not to throw any right hick kicks. The worst thing you can do is limit an explosive fighter like Pettis' arsenal. He might get taken down anyway, might as well let him try to throw so he can score a knockout.


He says as Guida catches Pettis's kick.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Rauno said:


> I guess wrestling wins again.


Yeah...Guida's is looking extremely strong though.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Let's go Pettis.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

3 minutes of stalling no seperation. Hopefully the awful judges give the second to pettis since he is the only one who did any damage and that armbar was to the point where it should score.


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

Pettis is winning 20-18, but I know the judges will call it for Guida via LnP.


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## prolyfic (Apr 22, 2007)

Cant understand why Anthony would've asked for Guida. Guida is the Jon Fitch of the LW division. He will lay on you for 3 rounds. Just like that Pettis to the back of the line. Although we still got 1 more round.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

John8204 said:


> He says as Guida catches Pettis's kick.


Pettis is a kicker, that's what he does. Telling him not to kick is like telling Guida not to wrestle.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Rogan has the biggest man crush on Pettis. He keeps jizzing his pants whenever he throws up a triangle.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

This fight sucks.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Stand them up. Notice how it only gets exciting when Pettis makes a move.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

I don't particularly care for Guida's style of fighting.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Going to say this before the scores come in:

Laying on someone and defending yourself =/= winning the fight.

Guida has done nothhing in this fight but defend for the first two rounds and get lit up standing in the second... This decision is going to piss me off.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Please MMA God, if you really exist...


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

So lame Guida wins because being on top = win no matter what


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

I have Pettis winning rounds 1 and 2 with Guida winning the third, but I'm sure the judges will have it 30-27 Guida for a unanimous decision.


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

yup a wrestle **** just like i thought


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Why do I pick against the wrassler?

Guida's sub defense looked much improved.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Holy shit- I thought Pettis had it won when took his back. Guida will win by UD though via the jugdes.​


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

See. This is why I'm not a Guida fan. I don't know how people can have the nerve to say he's the most entertaining fighter in the UFC.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

It is the refs fault it should have gotten stood up about 30 times. He allowed Guida to do nothing.


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## prolyfic (Apr 22, 2007)

Thats what happens when you believe your own hype. He should've asked for a different fighter or waited for his title shot. Sucks for Pettis but I think he needed more time anyway. He is flashy and exciting but I never thought he was quite ready yet.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

"punching" with your shoulders = automatic stand up or you lose the fight


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Damn that was frustrating to watch....


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Called it. This Jackson gameplan version of Guida, with his apparent improved wrestling and submission defence is actually going to be pretty hard to beat. I would love to see Edgar vs Guida, think Edgar's the man to bring the entertainment back to a Clay Guida fight. Not particularly entertaining in his last 2 Guida, but he's looking methodical, is sticking to his gameplans and is picking up victories, and I'm sure he'll be happy with that.


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

GUIDA is my BOYEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Decent fight, but only because of Pettis. Wah... Guida would have been happy to sit in gaurd and throw a elbow every 20 seconds. Go away Guida.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

AlphaDawg said:


> See. This is why I'm not a Guida fan. I don't know how people can have the nerve to say he's the most entertaining fighter in the UFC.


Yeah, because his fights against Huerta, Sanchez, Florian, and Gomi were just so dull!:sarcastic12:


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Pettis needs to get his takedown defense up to snuff before making a title run. Guida pretty much took him down at will in every part of the octagon.


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

The fact that there was not a single stand up or separation by the ref in this entire fight, and the fact that none of the three judges gave a single round to Pettis in this fight show how much is wrong with MMA today.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Holy shit 30-27? You're shitting me? 


God **** this judging system is horse shit.


Seriously, ugh.


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

**** Guida and the garbage judges. How can you give him all 3 rounds for doing NOTHING while on top. This is so bullshit why bother watching MMA **** you Dana White lets see you complain about this one...oh wait you wont because its a fan favorite


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Good fight for Guida.

I'm a big Guida fan. I can understand others not liking his fighting style, as there are other fighters who fight similar that I don't like watching. There's just something about Guida I like. I think he just comes off as a nice guy, energetic, a guy I'd love to hang out with, go fishing and stuff. He just seems like a down to earth guy who goes in there and does his thing.

Anywho, glad he won.


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## evilstevie (Apr 19, 2009)

What a bunch of lay n pray BS. Typical of team Jackson. That's the worst thing about the UFC.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Easy credits. If you can't submit a top level wrestler or finish him before the fight hits the ground you aren't going to win.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> The fact that there was not a single stand up or separation by the ref in this entire fight, and the fact that none of the three judges gave a single round to Pettis in this fight show how much is wrong with MMA today.


And yet, bringing a cutout yourself in the ring so much worse.


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

If Guida gets a title shot before Jim Miller I'm going to rage hard.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Pettis needs to get his takedown defense up to snuff before making a title run. Guida pretty much took him down at will in every part of the octagon.



^^This- ugly fight and wrestling scores points in how fights are judged(whether it's fair or not)- it's no surprise Guida fought the way he did and Pettis knew this going into the fight.​


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

420atalon said:


> Easy credits. If you can't submit a top level wrestler or finish him before the fight hits the ground you aren't going to win.


So according to you if you're on top and only throw a couple strikes leaving yourself completely open doing very little means you win? ... Wow thats ridiculous

Anyone else want to complain that the judging is not in favor of wrestlers? No matter what, you're on top you'll ALWAYS win, even if you stall you'll ALWAYS win. Thats just so stupid


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

i hate greg jackson for transforming 2 of the most exciting fighters(guida and gsp) into lay and pray boring fighters, anything for a win right greg? makes me effing sick, i knew pettis wouldnt stand a chance against maynard but he wasnt doing much against guida to suggest he is ready for top wrestlers


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Bonnar426 said:


> Yeah, because his fights against Huerta, Sanchez, Florian, and Gomi were just so dull!:sarcastic12:


His fight with Gomi was literally the worst fight I've ever seen in the UFC. Not sure what fight you were watching buddy.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

bring on jim miller for the next title shot please


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

TraMaI said:


> Holy shit 30-27? You're shitting me?
> 
> 
> God **** this judging system is horse shit.
> ...


Oh come on Tramai. Pettis was never that close to any of his submission attempts and that is all he had. Guida was just as close as Pettis ever was in the dying minutes of the fight when he took his back.


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## Toroian (Jan 3, 2009)

100% of MMA fail .... Again a wresler beat a decent exciting fighter with lay and pray doing NOTHIN on the floor nice fucked up face guida how was pettis ? oh fine!


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Lot of butthurt fans in this thread. Looks like highschool wrestling beats BJJ. Were most of you guys praying for a jump off the cage face kick:laugh: 

Hype in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first.

Easy vbookie points for this muthafucka:thumb02:


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

Hell even in high school wrestling matches if a guy is just laying on top of you not doing anything he gets called for STALLING and loses a point! And if he keeps doing it he gets DISQUALIFIED! They need to bring stalling calls into the UFC and start deducting points for this BS.


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

UFC_OWNS said:


> i hate greg jackson for transforming 2 of the most exciting fighters(guida and gsp) into lay and pray boring fighters, anything for a win right greg? makes me effing sick, i knew pettis wouldnt stand a chance against maynard but he wasnt doing much against guida to suggest he is ready for top wrestlers


You're insane if you say GSP lays n prays. That couldn't be the furthest thing from the truth


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## GriffinFanKY (Oct 22, 2007)

MMA judging is just plain ridiculous a wrestler doing nothing on top>the fighter on bottom throwing up submissions and working harder.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

St.Paul Guy said:


> If Guida gets a title shot before Jim Miller I'm going to rage hard.


As of right now clay deserves it more, yes miller has won more but Guida has defeated a former champ in pettis and gomi.


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## Ares Caesar (Aug 13, 2008)

osmium said:


> It is the refs fault it should have gotten stood up about 30 times. He allowed Guida to do nothing.


The problem is refs dont initiate standups when the guy is being active off his back like Pettis was. 

I agree with what seems to be the general sentiment here, it sucks that simply getting ontop of a guy and holding them down for 3 rounds and doing virtually no damage beyond a couple shoulders to the face equates to a win, while the guy on the bottom was doing more damage with strikes and making FAR more attempts to finish the fight via submissions. 

I think "wrestling" now is counting FAR too much for "points" in the world of MIXED martial arts... its time MMA becomes TRUE MMA, not "wrestling with punches"

Guys like Pettis are what people want to see because they come to FINISH fights and take far more chances to do so, while guys like Guida simply fight not to lose while making very little attempt to finish a fight. 

While I'd like to fault Guida, the simple fact is he's just "playing the game" as its up to the judges to change the scoring criteria and punish fighters for NOT making attempts to finish fights. I dont think guys should win if they're not active off their backs or throwing strikes, but if they ARE doing those things and the guy on top is doing nothing, the points should go to the active fighter off his back.

Sick of decisions like this, and I think I'm going to have to vocally protest and financially protest guys like Guida and Fitch who do nothing in the octagon.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

What did Guida do in the 1st talon, beside top position? I saw about 10 sub attempts from Pettis.

Do you like watching these fights Renegade? If I wanted to watch this i'd go watch college wrestling on espn.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Sousa said:


> So according to you if you're on top and only throw a couple strikes leaving yourself completely open doing very little means you win? ... Wow thats ridiculous
> 
> Anyone else want to complain that the judging is not in favor of wrestlers? No matter what, you're on top you'll ALWAYS win, even if you stall you'll ALWAYS win. Thats just so stupid


Yeah, laying on your back while your opponent throws you around and easily stuffs any of your submission attempts should win you the fight...

Sure I understand some fans dislike these fights cause they aren't that exciting but arguing Pettis won that fight is retarded. Wrist control doesn't win you a fight...


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

AlphaDawg said:


> His fight with Gomi was literally the worst fight I've ever seen in the UFC. Not sure what fight you were watching buddy.


His fight with Diego was awesome. DOn't be upset that Pettis' hype train was derailed


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

ITT: Everyone is pissed because the exciting guy who does unique things loses to another generic decision wrestler. 

:laugh:

Oh...how disappointing.


I do, however wish that fight was 25 minutes...maybe it would've been different.


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Lolololololol at all the butt hurt hype train riders. God forbid your boy have a well rounded game. Clay was landing big shots in the feet setting up the TD and then taking Pettis for a ride at will. GUIDA made shit dirty and fought smart not opening himself up to unnecessary risks. 

I didn't realise how over run this forum has become with haters and casual fans who cant appreciate every aspect of the sport.

Guida won this 30-27 with no excuses left to be made for Pettis. Pettis will come back strong the dude just needs to work on timing hid opponents and his TD defence.


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## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

I have never been a fan of Guida but I gave him all 3 rounds,


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

420atalon said:


> Oh come on Tramai. Pettis was never that close to any of his submission attempts and that is all he had. Guida was just as close as Pettis ever was in the dying minutes of the fight when he took his back.


Pettis won the second he beat the hell out of Guida standing and that armbar was close enough to be scored and guida did nothing the entire round.



Ares Caesar said:


> The problem is refs dont initiate standups when the guy is being active off his back like Pettis was.
> 
> I agree with what seems to be the general sentiment here, it sucks that simply getting ontop of a guy and holding them down for 3 rounds and doing virtually no damage beyond a couple shoulders to the face equates to a win, while the guy on the bottom was doing more damage with strikes and making FAR more attempts to finish the fight via submissions.
> 
> ...


He wasn't standing it up for the 3 minutes they were against the cage not moving either it had nothing to do with the activity of pettis.


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

RustyRenegade said:


> Lot of butthurt fans in this thread. Looks like highschool wrestling beats BJJ. Were most of you guys praying for a jump off the cage face kick:laugh:
> 
> Hype in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first.
> 
> Easy vbookie points for this muthafucka:thumb02:


Um last time anyone that knew MMA checked Pettis a striker not a BJJ grappler


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

box said:


> What did Guida do in the 1st talon, beside top position? I saw about 10 sub attempts from Pettis.


Well, 10 easy sub defenses often followed up by a decent punch or two for starters...

Pettis was never close to finishing his subs. If he had anything even halfways sunk in I might agree but he never was close. His armbar attempt was by far the closest and Guida was still in little trouble on that attempt.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

RustyRenegade said:


> Lot of butthurt fans in this thread. Looks like highschool wrestling beats BJJ. Were most of you guys praying for a jump off the cage face kick:laugh:
> 
> Hype in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first.
> 
> Easy vbookie points for this muthafucka:thumb02:


Yeah but in the end vbookie means absolutely nothing except a non-competitive virtual point system that really serves little purpose outside of a little side mini-game used to simulate real betting...

I'd rather see Pettis win because I love the sport and love to see new, unique and exciting things, and not 15 minute smotherfests every time I turn on my TV.


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

420atalon said:


> Yeah, laying on your back while your opponent throws you around and easily stuffs any of your submission attempts should win you the fight...
> 
> Sure I understand some fans dislike these fights cause they aren't that exciting but arguing Pettis won that fight is retarded. Wrist control doesn't win you a fight...


How about strikes from the guard? Why can't that win you the fight?


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

420atalon said:


> Yeah, laying on your back while your opponent throws you around and easily stuffs any of your submission attempts should win you the fight...
> 
> Sure I understand some fans dislike these fights cause they aren't that exciting but arguing Pettis won that fight is retarded. Wrist control doesn't win you a fight...


Guida did NOTHING. Nothing special .Throwing shoulders is not finishing a fight or attempting. Pettis was going for subs and staying active while Guida would throw an elbow once in a while. I have no problems with Guida, hell I like the guy but to say he owned Pettis and fully deserved the win is flat out retarded. I don't even like Pettis either, I'm not really a fan of either guy but to claim being on top = win is just stupid. Anyone who thinks that doesn't' know MMA thats a fact not an opinion. Call me whatever but being on top doing little shouldn't out weigh someone constantly trying to finish a fight.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

locnott said:


> I have never been a fan of Guida but I gave him all 3 rounds,


As did every other person watching the fight that didn't have Pettis' ding a ling throated down to the short hairs. Haters gonna hate:thumbsdown:


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

RustyRenegade said:


> His fight with Diego was awesome. DOn't be upset that Pettis' hype train was derailed


I was never on that train bud. I thought it was ridiculous that Pettis was even being considered as a top contender. I knew Guida would win this fight like he did. That being said, I still hate his god awful fighting style.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Emericanaddict said:


> Lolololololol at all the butt hurt hype train riders. God forbid your boy have a well rounded game. Clay was landing big shots in the feet setting up the TD and then taking Pettis for a ride at will. GUIDA made shit dirty and fought smart not opening himself up to unnecessary risks.
> 
> I didn't realise how over run this forum has become with haters and casual fans who cant appreciate every aspect of the sport.
> 
> Guida won this 30-27 with no excuses left to be made for Pettis. Pettis will come back strong the dude just needs to work on timing hid opponents and his TD defence.


Nothing really to appreciate. Guida is the same as every other dude with a wrestling background. The only thing I can appreciate is his conditioning and that he was able to set up his takedowns nicely in the center of the cage and not just rely on the fence.


----------



## cursedbat (Apr 11, 2011)

When will it be enough of this crap. Guida actually had greater dimension tonight which is just how pathetic it is. So tired of the control your hips do nothing style. Having long hair and moving around like you are on crank doesnt change the fact that you are just laying on someone. 

Something needs to happen to send a message that this is no longer rewarded. Giving a descision like tonights to the other fighter would be a good start even though under the current rules I agree Guida won.


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## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

Count me down as unimpressed again with Clay Guida. Win by dry-humping and inflicting zero damage. I'm not sure how people love Guida but give GSP the gears every time he fights. I'm blinded by my dislike of Guida I'm sure but he really is the most overhyped, underwhelming fighter in the UFC.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

sounds like a lot of people thought pettis was the second coming because of one flashy kick...

the showtime era? Yeah right.

Guida handily won all 3 rounds, and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't know what the hell they're talking about.

It's not the judges fault that pettis couldn't maintain a distance and keep Guida off of him. It's also not their fault that he could barely get off of his back or land anything of any real significance.

OMG He attempted submissions, he should win the round. Guida was active and to say he wasn't is a lie. Pettis was active as well but landed nothing of significance and never truly threatened hard with a submission

The bottom line is this...if you are on your back for the majority of a 3 round fight. You better do something of drastic significance from the bottom or land something of high significance when you have the chance on the feet.

Pettis failed to do any of these things. To state otherwise is ridiculous.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

I also wish Pettis would've fought loose instead of having his coach turn him into some ridiculous thinking man's fighter throwing generic one-twos. Of all the time watching the dude fight, he hurts people and scores with crazy, unexpected wild kicks and aggressive combinations. That was just weak.

Also disappointed in his TDD..looked much better against Shane Roller who is a much better wrestler on paper.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

No surprise here but i'm sick of this wresting crap


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> How about strikes from the guard? Why can't that win you the fight?


I don't know what to say if you think Pettis' half a dozen decent strikes from guard were really worth anything...


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Pettis is a champion, he should have been given five rounds.

Guida should be given his number one title fight, but only against Melvin Guillard for shits and giggles.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> Yeah but in the end vbookie means absolutely nothing except a non-competitive virtual point system that really serves little purpose outside of a little side mini-game used to simulate real betting...
> 
> I'd rather see Pettis win because I love the sport and love to see new, unique and exciting things, and not 15 minute smotherfests every time I turn on my TV.


So Pettis should've won because he was put on his back the whole fight? Or maybe he should have got the nod for getting submission attempts shut down? 

Should he be in the judges good graces for an off the cage kick against benderson?

I'd say Guida came the closest to finishing by getting back mount in the third. 

You're one of my favorite posters Copter but maybe kickboxing is more your style?


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Roflcopter said:


> Nothing really to appreciate. Guida is the same as every other dude with a wrestling background. The only thing I can appreciate is his conditioning and that he was able to set up his takedowns nicely in the center of the cage and not just rely on the fence.


So your going to ignore the fact that Guida had some success standing with a guy who was supposed to run through him. Ignore that Guida took him down at will with well set up TDs. Your going to ignore that Guida stayed busy not only avoiding submissions but passing guard and gaining side control several times while administering GnP aswell?


Guida was disciplined and took the fight inn dominant fashion whether anyone wants to admit it or not.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

This was a hard fight for me to watch. Guida is one of my favorite fighters and Pettis seems like a real likable guy who I think has a bright future in the UFC. I do think it's ridiculous how butthurt some people are over this decision. Pettis lost, plain and simple. He was taken down at will and controlled on the ground for 98% of the fight. He's still got a bright future ahead of him and I guarantee each Pettis fan that he will use this loss as a learning experience and come back a much better fighter.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Pettis didn't win the tagteam of Maz and Guida took the first and third rounds. I would have actually scored the fight a draw because I had the first 10-10 since neither guy did much scoring. Guida took the third because he actually landed a punch and had a couple passes and Pettis did less than in the first two outside of having the back for a bit.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

I don't have a 3d tv, but when guida fights with his hair moving and shit it looks like 3d.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Just woke up. I missed all of the fights. 

I sure wish this site had a PbP. trying to get what happened from this thread SUCKS.

But I do get the main point..... MY BOY WON!


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

oldfan said:


> Just woke up. I missed all of the fights.
> 
> I sure wish this site had a PbP. trying to get what happened from this thread SUCKS.
> 
> But I do get the main point..... MY BOY WON!


Just google for a play by play dude. You missed a great fight. Make sure to catch it online somewhere soon!


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

oldfan said:


> Just woke up. I missed all of the fights.
> 
> I sure wish this site had a PbP. trying to get what happened from this thread SUCKS.
> 
> But I do get the main point..... MY BOY WON!


Guida won me some vbookie points and of course there's plenty of cage kick fans that are upset:thumbsdown:


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

RustyRenegade said:


> So Pettis should've won because he was put on his back the whole fight? Or maybe he should have got the nod for getting submission attempts shut down?
> 
> Should he be in the judges good graces for an off the cage kick against benderson?
> 
> ...


Hell no, Guida won 30-27...it just makes me sad.



Emericanaddict said:


> So your going to ignore the fact that Guida had some success standing with a guy who was supposed to run through him. Ignore that Guida took him down at will with well set up TDs. Your going to ignore that Guida stayed busy not only avoiding submissions but passing guard and gaining side control several times while administering GnP aswell?
> 
> 
> Guida was disciplined and took the fight inn dominant fashion whether anyone wants to admit it or not.


Ignore it? I suppose. His performance was absolutely nothing special. Basically a bare minimum decision win from a generic smother wrestler who looks to win on points. It is what is it is.


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

I was really bored with this fight, guida bouncing around makes him look more exciting then he actually is IMO


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

If I could have an MMA world where people threw flying kicks, and knocked people out cold with head kicks at the top level..that'd be golden. Unfortunately, it looks like I'm going to have get my fix on high level regional shows with certain start fighters sprinkled in between everyman submission grappling contests.

Because it looks like clearly, the UFC is headed towards being one big professional folkstyle wrestling league.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Am I the only one that found the fight exciting? Everytime Pettis was close to a triangle or armbar I was on the edge of my seat. Not too mention Guida getting the back at the end of the third. Could have been a choke if he had more time.

The standup was pretty even besides the kicks Pettis threw before being neutered by his corner. Would have been devastating if they had landed.

I rather enjoyed the fight.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

Guida huge manhugging animal.

wtf 2nd round they were on the ground for several minutes and guida didn't throw any punch from the top position. 

I'm mad.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

RustyRenegade said:


> Am I the only one that found the fight exciting?


Not the only one. Rather enjoyed it and was impressed with both fighters at times during the fight.

Guida's escapes from the armbar attempt and when Pettis had his back were things of beauty. 

Here is fightmetric for those that are interested by such things.

http://blog.fightmetric.com/2011/06/guida-vs-pettis-official-ufc-statistics.html

Points worth mentioning, Guida landed more strikes standing. Neither had very effective striking, pretty much even imo. Guida was 5/8 on takedowns. They only credited Pettis with 1 submission attempt(his armbar) and rightfully so imo, throwing your legs up isn't a submission attempt unless you actually get a hold of something.

Fightmetric actually gave Pettis the 2nd round, it was the closest but I still think Guida should have taken it.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Hell no, Guida won 30-27...it just makes me sad.
> 
> 
> 
> Ignore it? I suppose. His performance was absolutely nothing special. Basically a bare minimum decision win from a generic smother wrestler who looks to win on points. It is what is it is.


what does that say about pettis then?

and what's with all this "he threw tons of submission attempts" nonsense stem from lately.

If Top Control doesn't matter or score points which anyone who thinks pettis won obviously thinks...why the hell would submission ATTEMPTS score points?

Submission attempts don't matter. cause they were just attempts. That's like saying "I hit you harder so I won"


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

RustyRenegade said:


> Am I the only one that found the fight exciting? Everytime Pettis was close to a triangle or armbar I was on the edge of my seat. Not too mention Guida getting the back at the end of the third. Could have been a choke if he had more time.
> 
> The standup was pretty even besides the kicks Pettis threw before being neutered by his corner. Would have been devastating if they had landed.
> 
> I rather enjoyed the fight.


They weren't really that close to get excited about IMO. Plus Guida getting the back was too little to late, not enough time + result was already assured.

Not a goddawful fight...but a disappointing one.



sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> what does that say about pettis then?


That he doesn't have the great takedown defense needed to stop a guy who's been wrestling most of his life, and that he's not quite good enough to muster up a successful submission off of his back....not from lack of effort however.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> That he doesn't have the great takedown defense needed to stop a guy who's been wrestling most of his life, and that he's not quite good enough to muster up a successful submission off of his back....not from lack of effort however.


All I'm saying is if Guida's performance was nothing special, then Pettis' was doubly so. It's not that Guida wasn't attempting to do things either, Pettis had some highly impressive control from the bottom. Probably some of the best if not THE best wrist control I've personally seen.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Pettis has always turned in some great performances. He was neutralized by a wrestler. That's really just what they do.

As for Guida, dude rarely tries to go beyond half guard in ANY of his fights. I just don't really care for it. 

It's not even just point fighting...I'll take a JZ Calvan, Jake Shields, or back up vertically..a Lyoto Machida fight any day of the week. It's just this smother, chest to chest style that I can't ever get behind.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> Pettis has always turned in some great performances. He was neutralized by a wrestler. That's really just what they do.
> 
> As for Guida, dude rarely tries to go beyond half guard in ANY of his fights. I just don't really care for it.
> 
> It's not even just point fighting...I'll take a JZ Calvan, Jake Shields, or back up vertically..a Lyoto Machida fight any day of the week. It's just this smother, chest to chest style that I can't ever get behind.


I have to admit that I am a complete hypocrite. It all depends on who's doing the smothering. 

WAR CARPENTER


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## METALLICA_RULES (Feb 12, 2011)

I missed this fight. I had to go somewhere after the Ed Herman fight. Was it any good?


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Haha I just found a stream. Listening to Rogan and Goldy worship Pettis:thumb02:


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

oldfan said:


> Haha I just found a stream. Listening to Rogan and Goldy worship Pettis:thumb02:


Pettis is awesome. He threw a flying kick off the cage and other assorted and related tomfoolery.


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

vilify said:


> No surprise here but i'm sick of this wresting crap


I dont remember mma bein this wrestling laden in its most profitable years 07,08 or 09. I know its always been apart of the sport and always will be.But when did the fighters stop buying into the philosophy that entertaining the fans is just as important as gaining wins? anthony johnson, kos and guida all use to be fighters that had wrestling but strived to entertain now they just lay on ppl..It feels like everyone is using this tactic now


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

Kreed said:


> I dont remember mma bein this wrestling laden in its most profitable years 07,08 or 09. I know its always been apart of the sport and always will be.But when did the fighters stop buying into the philosophy that entertaining the fans is just as important as gaining wins? anthony johnson, kos and guida all use to be fighters that had wrestling but strived to entertain now they just lay on ppl..It feels like everyone is using this tactic now


I started watching every UFC event in 07. the wrestling/fighting ratio seems about the same to me. It's just that the wrestling fight is fresh on everyone's mind and everyone was all over pettis' nuts. 

there were a lot of excellent finishes tonight and stand up wars. Only one match could be considered lay n pray but I really don't feel that best describes the Guida match anyhow.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I don't understand why people are still blaming wrestlers for wrestling and doing what they do best instead of blaming fighters that can't defend a takedowns.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Kreed said:


> I dont remember mma bein this wrestling laden in its most profitable years 07,08 or 09. I know its always been apart of the sport and always will be.*But when did the fighters stop buying into the philosophy that entertaining the fans is just as important as gaining wins?* anthony johnson, kos and guida all use to be fighters that had wrestling but strived to entertain now they just lay on ppl..It feels like everyone is using this tactic now


When they realize how quick the fans are to shit on anybody with a loss?

Look at Paul Daley (I never liked him). He went from "world class striker" to "can" in one fight.



That was a fun fight. Pettis did try some cool kicks. I might be a pettis fan.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Ari said:


> I don't understand why people are still blaming wrestlers for wrestling and doing what they do best instead of blaming fighters that can't defend a takedowns.


Because the wrestlers who fight like Guida fight a very stale style of fighting.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

I despise bad wrestling, but some of you people are absolute tools against wrestling.

Guida imposed his will, made pettis fight his fight, controlled the octagon, controlled where the fight took place, hit pettis with whatever he could including his damn shoulder while pettis desperately tried to stifle Guida's top game and shook off every BS sub attempt that pettis threw up like it was child's play. 

what did pettis do again?

EDIT:

Why don't I answer that question for you. 

Umm, let's see. Pettis backed away from Guida on the feet. Not to mention Guida came forward aggressively in round 3 even after he was clearly up 2 rounds. Pettis landed a couple kicks, got taken down basically at will, stayed on his back for the majority of his fight, held on to Guida's wrists for dear life, ATTEMPTED numerous failed submissions, got a dominant position in the last 2 minutes of the fight and got schooled in grappling and wrestling and managed to get his back taken in the last minute of the fight...that really sounds like a winning performance to me let me tell ya.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

420atalon said:


> I don't know what to say if you think Pettis' half a dozen decent strikes from guard were really worth anything...


They were worth more than Guida's shoulder pops, that's for damn sure. 

Also, for those of you going "OMFG U CANT WIN TEH FIGHT BY GETTIN UR TECHNIQUES SHUT DOWN LOLZ"

No:

UFC Scoring is based on Effective

Striking: Goes to Pettis the first two rounds. Guida threw nothing the first round, Pettis landed more standing and from his back. Second round Pettis lit him the **** up standing and was still throwing from his back. Third round was mostly Guida for his shoulder jabs.

Grappling: Debatable. Guida held him down but did nothing with it. Pettis was constantly attacking off his back in all three rounds.

Agression: Pettis. Every round. Going for submission attempts and striking off your back = agression. Sitting in guard and holding tight while you throw bumps with your shoulders is not.

Octagon Control: Guida obviously won this. 

2-1 hands down to Pettis with 1 kind of up in the air that I fully believe went to Pettis as well.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

They should've just scored the fight a 30-30 DRAW just to piss on Guida.

I would've laughed my ass off.


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

I was afraid this would happen, but smart betting is betting on the wrestler in this case. I miss guida's crazy caveman, just like i miss georges "rush" st. pierre, but whining about it isn't going to change anything.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> They were worth more than Guida's shoulder pops, that's for damn sure.
> 
> Also, for those of you going "OMFG U CANT WIN TEH FIGHT BY GETTIN UR TECHNIQUES SHUT DOWN LOLZ"
> 
> ...


I don't see how grappling is debatable. Grappling obviously went to Guida no matter how much Pettis attacked off his back, wouldn't that fall under the striking category anyhow? It looked to me that Guida was the far superior grappler though I was impressed with Pettis' ability to nullify Guida's top game. With that said, that doesn't and shouldn't win fights. Plus look at how Guida would power out of submission attempts and constantly look to improve position.

Also I'd have to give aggression to Guida as well. On the feet in the 2nd and 3rd rounds it was Guida who was stalking Pettis and nothing of significance really landed on the feet anyhow. Guida walked him down and planted him on his ass...That's aggression.

Also, being on top of someone, keeping them planted on the ground, using your body as a weapon and constantly looking to advance your position = aggression over someone attempting to mount on offense from the bottom.

I'd also like to say that this whole "He should have won the rounds due to submission attempts" is complete hypocrisy and here is why...

No matter how many submission attempts someone throws up, how does that score more points than the fighter ON TOP THWARTING said submission attempt. 

Top Control + Submission Defense > Submission Attempts


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> I don't see how grappling is debatable. Grappling obviously went to Guida no matter how much Pettis attacked off his back, wouldn't that fall under the striking category anyhow? It looked to me that Guida was the far superior grappler though I was impressed with Pettis' ability to nullify Guida's top game. With that said, that doesn't and shouldn't win fights. Plus look at how Guida would power out of submission attempts and constantly look to improve position.
> 
> Also I'd have to give aggression to Guida as well. On the feet in the 2nd and 3rd rounds it was Guida who was stalking Pettis and nothing of significance really landed on the feet anyhow. Guida walked him down and planted him on his ass...That's aggression.
> 
> ...


In grappling, the guard is a neutral position. That position was entirely neutral with what Pettis did. Guida landed nothing significant from top control in any of those rounds. Being on top =/= advantageous position, people need to realize that as it's a very wrong assumption coming with the sport now. Advantageous positions are anything past the guard (side control, mount, N/S, back etc). Half guard is slightly advantageous but not enough to warrant an advantage if nothing is done with it or when the person on bottom gets back to guard as quickly as Pettis did every time. 

The grappling portion of that fight was all Pettis on offense. I was under the impression you can't win a fight by just defending, which is all Guida did except for that last round (which I agree he won). IMO, the first round is sort of debatable, but I give it to Pettis for striking off his back and being aggressive. Second round was easily Pettis' round. He did the same thing grappling he did in the first (Guida was on defense the entire time) and lit him up standing. Third round Guida actually advanced and although Pettis got his back, Guida got Pettis' back and maintained it for quite some time. 

As far as "Pinning someone and trying to use your body as a weapon is better than sub attempts": 

I agree, but that's most definitely not what happened, or at least it isn't in the context you're implying. Bumping someone with your shoulders does little to no damage and will never, ever finish a fight or injure and opponent. As far as trying to pass, the only time Guida tried to pass was when Pettis threw up a submission attempt because he was trying DEFEND said submission attempt.* Also, he was never successful in doing so. Like I said before, Guard is a neutral position, you get NO EXTRA POINTS for sitting in someones guard. What gets you points is striking and passing. 

The last part: How does someone sitting on top of someone getting shut down for passing score more points than the person shutting him down.

Even if you call the grappling a draw by taking striking out of it, Pettis still wins on both aggression and striking.


*Note, I'm talking about the first two rounds, which Pettis won in my opinion



> I was afraid this would happen, but smart betting is betting on the wrestler in this case. I miss guida's crazy caveman, just like i miss georges "rush" st. pierre, *but whining about it isn't going to change anything*.


Everything that's wrong with shit like this today. Be it Judging in MMA to politics. The "Oh I can't change anything" approach is just conceding that nothing will ever change. Enough people stop doing this, start e-mailing the NSAC/CSAC/UFC and they will start to take notice and HOPEFULLY start to teach their judges correctly.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> In grappling, the guard is a neutral position. That position was entirely neutral with what Pettis did. Guida landed nothing significant from top control in any of those rounds. Being on top =/= advantageous position, people need to realize that as it's a very wrong assumption coming with the sport now. Advantageous positions are anything past the guard (side control, mount, N/S, back etc). Half guard is slightly advantageous but not enough to warrant an advantage if nothing is done with it or when the person on bottom gets back to guard as quickly as Pettis did every time.
> 
> The grappling portion of that fight was all Pettis on offense. I was under the impression you can't win a fight by just defending, which is all Guida did except for that last round (which I agree he won). IMO, the first round is sort of debatable, but I give it to Pettis for striking off his back and being aggressive. Second round was easily Pettis' round. He did the same thing grappling he did in the first (Guida was on defense the entire time) and lit him up standing. Third round Guida actually advanced and although Pettis got his back, Guida got Pettis' back and maintained it for quite some time.
> 
> ...


Your response gives me a chubby and I mean that with the utmost respect. That's the kind of response I'm always looking for but so rarely receive. :thumb02:

While your post is quite enlightening and will make me definitely consider a bit more in a grappling exchange next time I watch a live event; I'm still not sure I agree that Pettis did enough to win this fight.



> After a brief feeling out process, Pettis landed two kicks, with Guida using the second to take “Showtime” to the canvas. Pettis looked for submissions from the bottom, while Guida looked for everything else that he could do to gain an advantage. As Guida pulled back, Pettis shot out a kick from his back that looked like it would have taken the Illinois native’s head off if it landed, but instead, it provided Pettis an opportunity to get back to his feet. He wasn’t there long, as Guida scored another takedown and kept his foe there until the bell.
> 
> Pettis began getting his shots off better in round two, but Guida’s takedown attempts again proved to be unstoppable. Pushing Pettis into the fence, Guida was more than eager to turn the fight into a war of wills. Midway through the round, Pettis made it back to his feet, but Guida stayed attached to him until Pettis was able to break loose with two minutes left. A couple of flashy kicks from Pettis got the crowd on the Milwaukee fighter’s side, but Guida took the shots well and kept marching forward, getting another takedown. Pettis wasn’t going home yet though, and he almost sunk in an armbar attempt in the closing seconds of the round.
> 
> Refusing to let up, despite his apparent lead, Guida chased after Pettis and took him down after throwing a wild overhand right. On the mat, it was the same smothering and punishing attack that he had specialized in during the first two rounds, and Pettis had no answers for “The Carpenter.” With two minutes left, Pettis got to his feet, but as the two fell back to the mat, it was Pettis taking Guida’s back. After some tense moments, Guida found an escape and then took Pettis’ back where he remained for the remainder of the bout.


This is taken directly from UFC.com and sounds like a fair assessment of the fight and not at all wrestling biased. 

I think clearly Octagon control goes to Guida, even if guard is a "neutral" position. It was quite obvious who wanted the fight to take place on the ground and who was able to impose his will. Let's also not forget that Guida's takdowns were ALMOST at will and probably a huge factor in the eyes of the judges. Pettis surely didn't want to be on his back but for the majority of the fight that decision was taken out of his hands.

Also, like it says in the first paragraph; Guida looked for everything else he could do to gain an advantage. I totally could see that and believe a lot of members on this board are overlooking/undermining this fact. I also thought there were numerous other times besides the submission attempts that Guida was managing to advance his position. Hopping over legs, where does half-guard fit in this criteria? The moments they were against the cage and Guida was not held in guard but still controlling Pettis also had to score in his favor.

In closing I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to bash Pettis, I thought he put up a valiant effort and even in losing he showed me a lot of potential. With that said, a lot of people seem to think Guida wasn't doing much...Sorry, but let someone be all over you as your straining to the best of your abilities to overcome that adversity and then tell me you were lay n prayed. I don't think that was the case tonight, I don't think Pettis would make excuses either.

EDIT: Also it should be noted that the 2nd round armbar is basically the one and only submission attempt that it even mentioned as it should be. Because truthfully it was the only submission attempt of any real significance.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> Your response gives me a chubby and I mean that with the utmost respect. That's the kind of response I'm always looking for but so rarely receive. :thumb02:
> 
> While your post is quite enlightening and will make me definitely consider a bit more in a grappling exchange next time I watch a live event; I'm still not sure I agree that Pettis did enough to win this fight.


Good! That's what good debates are for! I love when people on this board make me think outside my normals lines of opinion as well 



> This is taken directly from UFC.com and sounds like a fair assessment of the fight and not at all wrestling biased.
> 
> I think clearly Octagon control goes to Guida, even if guard is a "neutral" position. It was quite obvious who wanted the fight to take place on the ground and who was able to impose his will. Let's also not forget that Guida's takdowns were ALMOST at will and probably a huge factor in the eyes of the judges. Pettis surely didn't want to be on his back but for the majority of the fight that decision was taken out of his hands.


Fully agree and never said otherwise. Realize, however, that "Octagon Control" is only 1/4th of the total score. Grappling I think I'm leaning more towards draw now but aggression and striking (both standing AND on the ground) I give to Pettis. That's 2-1-1 overall for Pettis IMO. And I don't think this is any sort of robbery at all, by the way, I just think that it was judged poorly even within the rules. The first round is debatable with the Attempts/Defense argument, but IMO the second round was clearly all Pettis and not ONE judge gave him a round.



> Also, like it says in the first paragraph; Guida looked for everything else he could do to gain an advantage. I totally could see that and believe a lot of members on this board are overlooking/undermining this fact. I also thought there were numerous other times besides the submission attempts that Guida was managing to advance his position. Hopping over legs, where does half-guard fit in this criteria? The moments they were against the cage and Guida was not held in guard but still controlling Pettis also had to score in his favor.


I honestly don't think he did. He was content quite a lot of the time with just sitting in Pettis guard. While he was in his guard he was also almost perpetually on defense. As far as cage walking goes, I give it a neutral position as well. It's more of a transitional position as there's little that can be done there aside from one fighter being pulled back down or standing back up. Half-guard can go either way, it's another position that depends upon both fighters actions IMO. Couture could use HG effectively by sitting there and raining GnP by using his opponents leg to control him. Guida, on the other hand, did no such thing and was almost immediately taken back to guard every time. The pass to get to half counts as aggression, yes, but not much mroe than that unless something is done from the position. In the battle of Guida's passing and Pettis' sub attempts, I easily give the nod to Pettis' sub attempts.



> In closing I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to bash Pettis, I thought he put up a valiant effort and even in losing he showed me a lot of potential. With that said, a lot of people seem to think Guida wasn't doing much...Sorry, but let someone be all over you as your straining to the best of your abilities to overcome that adversity and then tell me you were lay n prayed. I don't think that was the case tonight, I don't think Pettis would make excuses either.


Same here. I'm a HUGE Guida fan.



> EDIT: Also it should be noted that the 2nd round armbar is basically the one and only submission attempt that it even mentioned as it should be. Because truthfully it was the only submission attempt of any real significance.


See, that's not it though. Even IF the other sub attempts don't land or come significantly close to landing, it's still offense. Every time Pettis goes for one of those subs it forces Guida to defend and not be on offense any more. You don't not count punches that aren't intended to KO someone do you? No, because it's all still aggressive offense. Even if the punch is blocked, so long as it isn't countered, it's still effective aggression as it takes away from your opponents gameplan.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

> I don't think this is any sort of robbery at all, by the way, I just think that it was judged poorly even within the rules. The first round is debatable with the Attempts/Defense argument, but IMO the second round was clearly all Pettis and not ONE judge gave him a round.


Not that I want to get off subject, but I realize that MMA judging has its flaws. And your posts enlightened me to some things that I can confidently assume that many judges most definitely don't take into consideration. With that said, I'm glad you don't think it's a robbery and you make many valid points. As for scoring, personally I thought the 2nd round could have justifiably went in favor of Pettis and also thought that the first round was extremely close. At the end of the day though I definitely feel that Guida won that fight.

I was just thinking to myself as well. What was the most significant thing in that fight? To me it has to be the takedowns. As much as there are arguments to discredit takedowns and their ability to score big, I don't think it's fair to place that assessment on this fight.



> I honestly don't think he did. He was content quite a lot of the time with just sitting in Pettis guard. While he was in his guard he was also almost perpetually on defense. As far as cage walking goes, I give it a neutral position as well. It's more of a transitional position as there's little that can be done there aside from one fighter being pulled back down or standing back up. Half-guard can go either way, it's another position that depends upon both fighters actions IMO. Couture could use HG effectively by sitting there and raining GnP by using his opponents leg to control him. Guida, on the other hand, did no such thing and was almost immediately taken back to guard every time. The pass to get to half counts as aggression, yes, but not much mroe than that unless something is done from the position. In the battle of Guida's passing and Pettis' sub attempts, I easily give the nod to Pettis' sub attempts.


I still don't think I can personally give THAT much credit to the submission attempts. Like I always say, judging is subjective and we both see different things and base our judgement on the fight on the same aspects presented to us only in a different light. It doesn't make us right or wrong, it means we would have made this fight a split decision. :thumb02:

This argument has been coming up a lot lately too, especially in the wake of the Torres/Johnson fight which I again scored in favor of Johnson. Submission attempts, stifling the person on top's attack, strikes from the bottom are all good and should score; but to really sway my opinion though and this would apply to both fights; the fighter on bottom really needed to demonstrate an ability to get out from the bottom. Pettis did have success with getting out from underneath Guida, but he wasn't ever able to seize the moment and in the final 2 rounds; what stood out to me most on the feet was Guida's pressure with pushing forward.



> See, that's not it though. Even IF the other sub attempts don't land or come significantly close to landing, it's still offense. Every time Pettis goes for one of those subs it forces Guida to defend and not be on offense any more. You don't not count punches that aren't intended to KO someone do you? No, because it's all still aggressive offense. Even if the punch is blocked, so long as it isn't countered, it's still effective aggression as it takes away from your opponents gameplan.


Couldn't you also sum up the failed submission attempts as "a swing and a miss" Aggression does play a big part in judging criteria but it's effective aggression. To me I don't see failed submission attempts as successful effective aggression. It may take the opponent out of their gameplan for a brief moment, but wouldn't the counter be the fighter (in this case Guida's) sub defense? Rather than compare them to blocked punches, I'd compare them to missed punches. Leonard Garcia style, though that wins fights too...:thumb02:

I'm sure this argument could go either way as well. it's all in the eye of the judges I suppose.


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

oldfan said:


> When they realize how quick the fans are to shit on anybody with a loss?


The funny thing with guida is much like gsp his matches have become quite forgettable since he started winning.Can u really say guida is as popular now as he was when he was an exciting fighter? when u hear a guida fight announced do you still get that feeling that there is goin to be fireworks? 
Jon fitch and rashad have proved that u can amass all the wins in the world but if you arent exciting its a case of so what.Hes edging closer to the title, good for him but hes losing fans which will hurt his pockets when he headlines a ppv..Unlike gsp he doesnt have the backing of a country or rainbow coalition to back him


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## anderton46 (Apr 23, 2010)

> See, that's not it though. Even IF the other sub attempts don't land or come significantly close to landing, it's still offense. Every time Pettis goes for one of those subs it forces Guida to defend and not be on offense any more. You don't not count punches that aren't intended to KO someone do you? No, because it's all still aggressive offense. Even if the punch is blocked, so long as it isn't countered, it's still effective aggression as it takes away from your opponents gameplan.


Do you score punches that people throw but don't connect? Because thats the same thing, its offense, but its failed offense. I don't even see why guys are argueing, Guida dealt with Pettis's bottom game with relative ease and just cause Pettis looked active didn't mean all his attempts were effective.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

AlphaDawg said:


> His fight with Gomi was literally the worst fight I've ever seen in the UFC. Not sure what fight you were watching buddy.


Really! Guida vs. Gomi is the worst fight you ever seen in the UFC? In a organization where Nate Quarry vs Kalib Starnes, Gonzaga vs. Kevin Jordan, and Tim Sylvia vs. Jeff Monson occurred you thought that fight beat them all!

I'm sorry dude, I just don't see it! I've seen some pretty crappy fights and I really don't see how anyone can count Guida vs. Gomi as one of them?


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## anderton46 (Apr 23, 2010)

Bonnar426 said:


> Really! Guida vs. Gomi is the worst fight you ever seen in the UFC? In a organization where Nate Quarry vs Kalib Starnes, Gonzaga vs. Kevin Jordan, and Tim Sylvia vs. Jeff Monson occurred you thought that fight beat them all!
> 
> I'm sorry dude, I just don't see it! I've seen some pretty crappy fights and I really don't see how anyone can count Guida vs. Gomi as one of them?


It's just a Pettis fanboy butthurt that 'the future' was out worked and soundly beaten. The gomi fight was average, nothing special but nowhere near one of the worst fights ever.


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Damn man checking back in the day after and the Butthurt is STILL emanating from these pages. Losing respect for a few people who can't just accept defeat. Pettis has'nt made any excuses yet so maybe you guy should cool it for a while.

No one is ever going to consider writing off an entire aspect of fighting for the sake of your pleasure. This isn't boxing or kickboxing children. This is MMA, take it or leave it cause none of this shit is news to anyone. 

If Clay is such crap then I hate to be the guy who lost decisively to him.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

The idea that Pettis won that fight is just laughable. Guida did "nothing" from the top, lol. So Pettis should win the fight for doing even less? Guida controlled the fight virtually from start to finish, took Pettis down at will. Yeah, he didn't do a lot of damage from the top but Pettis did even less from the bottom so how the ******* hell can you pretend even for a second he won the fight. Ridiculous.

BTW, Diaz fans take a good look at that fight. That's how threatening an active guard is a against a wrestler with sub defense. Not really that threatening at all, Guida was in danger for maybe 30 seconds of a 15 minute fight. GSP vs Diaz will look a lot like that except more so.


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## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

oldfan said:


> Haha I just found a stream. Listening to Rogan and Goldy worship Pettis:thumb02:


I thought the same thing,Joe has some serious love for Pettis's wrist control, If joe shook Pettis hand he probbably blew his load being that close to that hand that has that amazing wrist control..Last night was the first time in a while that I didn't mute the tv, the fights seem to go a little faster..imo


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

TraMaI said:


> See, that's not it though. Even IF the other sub attempts don't land or come significantly close to landing, it's still offense. Every time Pettis goes for one of those subs it forces Guida to defend and not be on offense any more. You don't not count punches that aren't intended to KO someone do you? No, because it's all still aggressive offense. Even if the punch is blocked, so long as it isn't countered, it's still effective aggression as it takes away from your opponents gameplan.


Almost every time Pettis went for one of those lazy triangles/armbars he ate a shot for his "aggression". 

You and others need to rewatch the fight again as you obviously watched it with a bias the first time. Guida landed more then just a few shoulder strikes. You are blinded by the submission "attempt" though and fail to recognize that Guida passed to half guard on many of these occasions and landed his best ground and pound during them.

Pettis was active off his back and looking for subs but he only came somewhat close once, the rest of the time he was just throwing his legs up in the air which is not *effective *aggression. It is trying to defend yourself from someone who is throwing you around at will but failing to do so. Too bad that 3rd round wasn't a minute or two longer because we would have seen the closest sub attempt of the night...

Pettis was tiring down, he was frustrated and Guida was still firing on all cylinders. You can't honestly tell me you think Guida would have lost this fight if it was to keep going.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I don't get all of this emphasis on the missed subs. How are they so much more significant than a missed/blocked strike? Or, a missed/blocked takedown?

If a fighter spends the entire fight shooting but not getting a takedown does he win on aggression?

what if he spends the entire fight throwing jabs that don't land?

actually, both of those scenarios would mean that the fighter spent the fight in a better position than Pettis.


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## tommydaone (Feb 19, 2010)

oldfan said:


> I don't get all of this emphasis on the missed subs. How are they so much more significant than a missed/blocked strike? Or, a missed/blocked takedown?
> 
> *If a fighter spends the entire fight shooting but not getting a takedown does he win on aggression?*
> 
> ...


Diego Sanchez vs Martin Kampmann? :sarcastic09:


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Funny, I actually enjoyed the fight and thought Guida won convincingly - and not by anything even remotely resembling "lay and pray". Man, that term has become so bastardized these last few years.

If Guida-Gomi is the worst fight they have seen in the UFC, then you haven't watched very many UFC fights.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

I picked Guida to win this fight, though I knew it would be close. I just had a feeling that Pettis was getting too much hype behind him after his flashy victory over Henderson. That's why I haven't been talking about him as much as other people. His victory over Henderson was impressive, but as we have seen before, quickly inflated hype can be deflated just as quickly. Although I don't think that he will end up like guys like Houston Alexander or Sokoudjou. Pettis has a bright future in the UFC, but I don't think that he will be holding the title any time soon.

I remember one poster saying that he couldn't imagine a possible way for Guida to win as if Pettis was better than him in every aspect of MMA. Pettis hasn't proven enough in MMA for someone to have that sort of confidence in him in my opinion. Guida is a tough guy, and regardless of his credentials, he always brings it when fight night comes around.


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## Reimondo (Jun 5, 2011)

*My first rant on this page*

i dont understand how people can say Pettis won in grappling..... if the compettition was grappling the MABY..... watch the fight without the bias as shit commentary by Mike Goldburg and Joe Rogan.... also dont watch between the rounds because you only see what they want you to see...... trust me if you do this then the fight doesnt even seem (in any arguement) close at all. Pettis has a bright future? YES he does.... entertaining? YES he is. Hyped up like crazy? YES. Hyped up like crazy for reasons he CAN back up? YES. does that mean he always wins? NO it dsoesnt. :fight02:


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Yeah, it's clear Anthony has some holes in his game that he'll need to fill before he's a serious title threat at lightweight. If Guida can ground him like that, so can Edgar, Maynard, Sherk and several others.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

tommydaone said:


> Diego Sanchez vs Martin Kampmann? :sarcastic09:


Well he had failed takedowns combined with missing 90% of the punches he threw. That is some big time scoring! :sarcastic12:

Martin Kampmann is the real number 2 WW in the world he is on a very impressive winning the actual fight streak.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

vandalian said:


> Funny, I actually enjoyed the fight and thought Guida won convincingly - and not by anything even remotely resembling "lay and pray". Man, that term has become so bastardized these last few years.
> 
> If Guida-Gomi is the worst fight they have seen in the UFC, then you haven't watched very many UFC fights.


Likewise. I thought it was a fun fight. I thought Pettis did very well attacking off of his back, but Guida was *never* in any danger and shrugged the attacks off. I didn't even think 'wonder who they score this for'


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## Hexabob69 (Nov 8, 2008)

420atalon said:


> Almost every time Pettis went for one of those lazy triangles/armbars he ate a shot for his "aggression".
> 
> You and others need to rewatch the fight again as you obviously watched it with a bias the first time. Guida landed more then just a few shoulder strikes. You are blinded by the submission "attempt" though and fail to recognize that Guida passed to half guard on many of these occasions and landed his best ground and pound during them.
> 
> ...




Finally someone who watched the same fight I did.


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## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

Guida controlled Pettis for three rounds. Pettis looked like he might have been able to get himself into some great positions, but Guida neutralized every attack, on the feet or on the ground. 

Is there really a debate about this?


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

oldfan said:


> I don't get all of this emphasis on the missed subs. How are they so much more significant than a missed/blocked strike? Or, a missed/blocked takedown?
> 
> If a fighter spends the entire fight shooting but not getting a takedown does he win on aggression? technically he would lose because stuffing a td is considered to be octagon control.
> 
> ...


Pettis lost and the fight never got too close to a finish for either fighter but Clay dominated him although boringly enough.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> Because the wrestlers who fight like Guida fight a very stale style of fighting.


Funny how you wasnt screaming to the hills when Anthony Johnson LnP Hardy............

could be your butt hurt ?


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## MMA specialist (Nov 8, 2010)

pettis is a talented dude, and is only getting better but clay guida is an animal with endless stamina and a chin made of granite.


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