# Am I the only one? ( Randy/Fedor)



## Extreme MMA (Jul 11, 2006)

Am I the only one that thinks Randy would get completely worked over by Fedor if they ever happen to fight? Every time a topic about this fight comes up, it's usually the consensus that Couture poses a significant threat. But the way I see it Fedor is just miles ahead of him. I believe he would overwhelm him with strikes until he gets the sub.

Share your thoughts/predictions.


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

yea fedor will demolish randy in every aspect..


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## killaz (Dec 31, 2006)

Fedor has crushed just about everyone he has faced. Randy would be another notch on his belt


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Eh. if a guy like Crocop could take Fedor to decision, I think Randy has a decent chance as well. It's not like Crocop's high kicks are what allowed him to go to decision. Hell, if Coleman could survive to round 2 I am 100% sure Randy could survive at least that long, Randy is better at everything than Coleman.

However, I think Randy would lose. Just not in as devastating a fashion as you predict.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I've been saying this for a while now, Fedor is a horrible match-up for Couture. Fedor's great in the clinch, great on the ground, has better stand-up and is a great gameplanner himself.


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## MetalMunkey (Oct 14, 2006)

Damone said:


> I've been saying this for a while now, Fedor is a horrible match-up for Couture. Fedor's great in the clinch, great on the ground, has better stand-up and is a great gameplanner himself.


Damn near everyone has been saying that for a while now, they just don't have as sexy an avatar as you. I'm with Hex, I think Randy will make it an interesting fight. The blind Couture fan in me wants to pick him but I just can't see how he wins.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

We got in quite the debate last night but I think Couture's skills are really overrated. He's impressive for being his age but that doesn't make him a great fighter. Fedor would beat him decisively.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

Extreme MMA said:


> *Am I the only one that thinks Randy would get completely worked over by Fedor if they ever happen to fight?* Every time a topic about this fight comes up, it's usually the consensus that Couture poses a significant threat. But the way I see it Fedor is just miles ahead of him. I believe he would overwhelm him with strikes until he gets the sub.
> 
> Share your thoughts/predictions.


Let me put it to you this way! This is not the first thread to address this issue. I'm sure if do a search you find countless posts on how Fedor will kick Randy's ass. Even on Sherdog you find threads about how Randy doesn't stand a chance, how Hong Man Choi could beat Randy, Randy doesn't deserve to fight Fedor (like that was ever a prerequisite), how it took Randy, 5 rounds to beat Tim while it took Fedor 36 seconds, etc. So no, you are not the only one!


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## MetalMunkey (Oct 14, 2006)

Off topic, are you guys rotating the mod positions or what?


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## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

MetalMunkey said:


> Off topic, are you guys rotating the mod positions or what?


Nope we are just bringing in some new mods and doing some different things because the forum is expanding. 

Check out all of the new things we've added:

Nonpaid member FFL
Daily Top News and Rumors
VIP Championship Pick Em League
MMAF All Access Interviews
Cleaned up the fighter sections and added/updated fighter profiles

All of those things need to be handled by mods and there wasn't enough to do it all so new ones had to be added.

Also I'm moving this to the general mma section because it really isn't UFC related.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

Fedor has destroyed all the top heavyweight he has fought in the last three years like Choi, Lindland, Hunt, Coleman, and Martins. Wait none of those guys are top heavyweights. Well at least he destroyed Tim Sylvia, a guy that PRIDE fans have always said is a top heavyweight and has great skills. Ok so what exactly has Fedor done in the last 3 years to make him the hands down best thing to happen to mma since the arm bar?


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I honestly believe Randy will do much better than most on this forum think. I believe Randy's wrestling will help him a great deal. I think Randy will be able to take Fedor down and pound him out.

I base all this on absolutely nothing.


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## GodlyMoose (May 20, 2007)

rockybalboa25 said:


> Fedor has destroyed all the top heavyweight he has fought in the last three years like Choi, Lindland, Hunt, Coleman, and Martins. Wait none of those guys are top heavyweights. Well at least he destroyed Tim Sylvia, a guy that PRIDE fans have always said is a top heavyweight and has great skills. Ok so what exactly has Fedor done in the last 3 years to make him the hands down best thing to happen to mma since the arm bar?


Eat a lot of ice cream.


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## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

Fedor via fatality


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## sk double i (Apr 13, 2007)

HexRei said:


> Eh. if a guy like Crocop could take Fedor to decision, I think Randy has a decent chance as well. It's not like Crocop's high kicks are what allowed him to go to decision. Hell, if Coleman could survive to round 2 I am 100% sure Randy could survive at least that long, Randy is better at everything than Coleman.
> 
> However, I think Randy would lose. Just not in as devastating a fashion as you predict.


Coleman survived to round 2 bc Fedor said (in an interview) that he wanted to feel him out. He said their first fight ended so quickly that he wasnt able to get a good feel for him.

Even so, being the wrestler that coleman is, fedor manhandled him. 

Coleman was also something like a 10-1 underdog going into that fight. ridiculous.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

sk double i said:


> Coleman survived to round 2 bc Fedor said (in an interview) that he wanted to feel him out. He said their first fight ended so quickly that he wasnt able to get a good feel for him.
> 
> Even so, being the wrestler that coleman is, fedor manhandled him.
> 
> Coleman was also something like a 10-1 underdog going into that fight. ridiculous.


Hm, thanks for the info. Even so, I think Randy would make it into round 2 at least. He's not going to get armbarred and Fedor won't KO him that quickly.


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

besides comlan was probably on roids so that gives some brownie points to fedor lol


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

rockybalboa25 said:


> Fedor has destroyed all the top heavyweight he has fought in the last three years like Choi, Lindland, Hunt, Coleman, and Martins. Wait none of those guys are top heavyweights. Well at least he destroyed Tim Sylvia, a guy that PRIDE fans have always said is a top heavyweight and has great skills. Ok so what exactly has Fedor done in the last 3 years to make him the hands down best thing to happen to mma since the arm bar?


What has Randy done other than beat Sylvia and an overhyped Gonzaga?


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

XitUp said:


> What has Randy done other than beat Sylvia and an overhyped Gonzaga?


Well first of all thats 2 top 10 heavyweights to Fedor's 1. Also Randy was retired and then not allowed to fight for quite a while, so I think he has a legitimate excuse. Also he has agreed to fight Lesnar, who is extremely talented, and he's going to fight the winner of NOG vs Mir. Seriously Fedor's entire career has been one of take a hard fight, then he'll fight a bunch of easy ones. Couture has only fought 1 unranked fighter since 2001. Couture always tries to fight the best. The same can't be said for Fedor.


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## GodlyMoose (May 20, 2007)

rockybalboa25 said:


> Well first of all thats 2 top 10 heavyweights to Fedor's 1. Also Randy was retired and then not allowed to fight for quite a while, so I think he has a legitimate excuse. Also he has agreed to fight Lesnar, who is extremely talented, and he's going to fight the winner of NOG vs Mir. Seriously Fedor's entire career has been one of take a hard fight, then he'll fight a bunch of easy ones. Couture has only fought 1 unranked fighter since 2001. Couture always tries to fight the best. The same can't be said for Fedor.



I think you are downplaying some of Fedor's wins and make it seem like he has done nothing impressive. You know such as dismantling a man in 30 seconds that took Randy 25 minutes to get a decision win over.

The guy hasn't really faced the most top competition, Zulu..., but the guy can't be for fault for that. I mean he's going to be fighting Arlovski next, not to mention Barnett has already stated he wants none of him.

I think you should just relax, and sit back and watch Fedor whomp some dudes.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

GodlyMoose said:


> I think you are downplaying some of Fedor's wins and make it seem like he has done nothing impressive. You know such as dismantling a man in 30 seconds that took Randy 25 minutes to get a decision win over.
> 
> The guy hasn't really faced the most top competition, Zulu..., but the guy can't be for fault for that. I mean he's going to be fighting Arlovski next, not to mention Barnett has already stated he wants none of him.
> 
> I think you should just relax, and sit back and watch Fedor whomp some dudes.


I have to say that Fedor's victory is more impressive, but I don't think a complete dismantling of an opponent in a title fight for the first fight out of retirement is anything to laugh at. 

As far as Fedor's impressive wins: 2 NOG, 2 CroCop, and Sylvia 1, Herring 1.

All I'm saying is that people are comparing his dominance to that of Anderson Silva.

Fedor very well may be the best heavyweight right now, but he's not the take on all comers MMA God that people make him out to be. A win over Arlovski, who has never been the same since Sylvia knocked him out. Fedor, Couture, Barnett, Lesnar, or NOG could easily expose him on he ground. 

Can you honestly say you'd rather see him fight Arlovski than Couture? Hopefully after the UFC tournament is over Fedor will agree to fight the winner.


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## jcsambo (Oct 8, 2008)

Well, how about these.

These shows that Fedor defeated top fighters in the world.

World Top Fighters who tasted Fedor's fatality.

Let's start from the latest:


*Tim Sylvia*
Submission by Rear-naked choke
Affliction - Banned (Honda Center, Anaheim, CA)
07/19/08 0:36 of rd 1

*Matt Lindland*
Submission by Armbar
Bodog Fight - Clash of the Nations (ICE Palace, St. Petersburg, Russia)
04/14/07 2:58 of rd 1

*Mark Hunt*
Submission by Kimura
PRIDE - Shockwave 2006 (Saitama Super Arena,Saitama, Japan)
12/31/06 8:16 of rd 1

*Mark Coleman*
Submission by Armbar
PRIDE 32 - The Real Deal (Thomas & Mack Center, Las Vegas, Nevada)
10/21/06 1:15 of rd 2

*Wagner da Conceicao Martins*
Submission by Punches
PRIDE - Shockwave 2005 (Saitama Super Arena, ,Saitama, Japan)
12/31/05 0:26 of rd 1

*Mirko Filipovic*
Decision by Unaminous
PRIDE - Final Conflict 2005 (Saitama Super Arena,,Saitama, Japan)
08/28/05 5:00 of rd 3

*Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira*
Unanimous Decision
PRIDE - Shockwave 2004 (Saitama Super Arena in Saitama, Japan)
12/31/04 5:00 of rd 3

*Kevin Randleman*
Submission by Kimura
PRIDE - Critical Countdown 2004 (Saitama Super Arena, Japan)
06/20/04 1:33 of rd 1

*Mark Coleman*
Submission by Armbar
PRIDE - Total Elimination 2004 (Saitama Super Arena,Japan )
04/25/04 2:11 of rd 1

*Gary Goodridge*
TKO by Strikes
PRIDE - Total Elimination 2003 (Saitama, Japan)
08/10/03 1:09 of rd 1

*Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira*
Unanimous Decision
PRIDE 25 - Body Blow (Yokohama Arena, Japan)
03/16/03 5:00 of rd 3

*Heath Herring*
TKO by Cut
PRIDE 23 - Championship Chaos 2 (Tokyo, Japan)
11/24/02 10:00 of rd 1

*Renato Sobral*
Unanimous Decision
Rings - 10th Anniversary (Ariake Coliseum in Tokyo, Japan)
08/11/01 5:00 of rd 2

*Ricardo Arona* 
Unanimous Decision 
Rings - King of Kings 2000 Block B (Osaka Prefecture Gymnasium in Osaka, Japan)
12/22/00 5:00 of rd 3

Most of the fighters listed were former UFC Champions.

Let's just wait and see what will happen when Fedor fights Randy.

I hope Dana White's fetish attitude would let give Fedor a fair contract even just a 1 fight contract exclusive for Randy, that would be great and good to MMA world.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Ok of that list:

Hunt was possibly a top SW but that had more to do with the lack of depth in the SW division. FWIW Overem submitted Hunt recently, and he has never beaten anyone in MMA but legendary japanese cans.

Goodridge and Coleman were not that great, ever. Goodridge was just roided up and strong with little skill. Coleman's skills never moved beyond leg shoots, headbutts and knees to the head.

Herring was skilled but questionable when Fedor fought him. He was possibly a top10 HW at the time but honestly he has to many losses, many to bad fighters, both before and after... I dunno how much this win matters.

Only Crocop, Big Nog, and Sylvia were top HW's when he fought them. Lindland, Babalu, Arona were all LHW's or MW's that ended up fighting Fedor due to happy happy weight class funtimes. Counting a win against these guys is kinda meh, none of them accomlished much if anything at HW.

Oh and the Zuluzhino fight was a joke why did you even bring it up unless you didn't see it.


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## jcsambo (Oct 8, 2008)

HexRei said:


> Ok of that list:
> 
> Hunt was possibly a top SW but that had more to do with the lack of depth in the SW division. FWIW Overem submitted Hunt recently, and he has never beaten anyone in MMA but legendary japanese cans.
> 
> ...





I think Fedor vs Randy fight will no longer take place. Lesnar will crush crush crush Randy and can no longer fight after that.

I believe Lesnar's preparation is extremely a 101 thing. Strength, Power, Quickness, Weight, Built, and Age are the factors Randy should think about.


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## GodlyMoose (May 20, 2007)

rockybalboa25 said:


> I have to say that Fedor's victory is more impressive, but I don't think a complete dismantling of an opponent in a title fight for the first fight out of retirement is anything to laugh at.
> 
> As far as Fedor's impressive wins: 2 NOG, 2 CroCop, and Sylvia 1, Herring 1.
> 
> ...


Arlovski's last two fights have been pretty impressive. Personally I would prefer him over Couture to fight Fedor. 

I don't really see that many things that Randy can do better than Fedor. Anywhere it really goes it's Fedor. I mean Randy has better head movement, is great in the clinch(Being an Olympic greco-roman alternate 4 times can do that to you), some pretty good sub defense, is known as a plan maker, and that's really it.

I personally believe that Fedor is good enough in the clinch to where Randy can't do anything. Fedor has much better stand up, is much faster, is a ridiculous grappler, punches incredibly hard, has the best GnP in MMA, can get submissions from any position, including an arsenal of leg locks which we haven't really seen him use in MMA yet, has some of the best sub defense out there. He is most likely stronger, amazing recovery time, has never even been knocked down, and has some pretty good take down defense.

Randy is going to be taken out where ever the fight goes is how I see it.


Now I see a fight with Arlosvki different. In that fight Arlovski has some distinct advantages, he's obviously much bigger, and probably stronger. I would say he has the stand up advantage, I believe his hands are faster, is very explosive, hits like a train, has some awesome takedown defense. Not even 10 years ago Arlosvki at one point was a very accomplished ***** fighter, giving him the ability to better connect with Fedor.

Now with this fight I believe he would probably get mauled if taken to the ground, but at least in the stand up he has a chance, since Fedor's chin isn't all that tested. Arlovski does still have a suspectable chin and could possibly get KO'd by Fedor.

This is all of course how I see this.




> All I'm saying is that people are comparing his dominance to that of Anderson Silva.


Well that happens when you know, you are on a 21 win fight streak since 2001, and having over 29 wins to your name and only have lost once in your entire career due to a technicality. Oh yeah also being the reigning PRIDE HW champ for 4 years until it was bought out, and being the one of two people to hold that belt. 

The other being the current UFC HW champion who he has beaten two and half times, in a incredibly bad fashion I might add. Not to mention 22 of those 29 fights were finished in a (t)ko, or submission, and 20 of those being in the first round. 

Oh yeah, also being dominant against every opponent you have ever faced, and having never lost one round in your entire career and your only weakness that has been shown was an incredibly hard hit from an incredibly large hard headed man named Fujita, who didn't even get Fedor to the ground, and was shortly afterwords subbed.

I mean, I guess that is rather silly comparing him to Silva.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

jcsambo said:


> I think Fedor vs Randy fight will no longer take place. Lesnar will crush crush crush Randy and can no longer fight after that.


lol there is no way brock is going to permanently retire randy, randy's never had an injury that needed surgery (last I heard anyway) and he has three fights left on his contract IIRC.

What exactly do you think brock will do to randy that no one else has been able to do?


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

I just want to start this off by saying that i dont hate couture, he is a great fighter and all that.

I may be wrong but i think this is the first time ive posted about what i think would be the outcome of a Fedor/Randy fight...and,

well i think this fight will be more one-sided then what have been suggested. I think Randy have been overly pushed down our throates as an equal to Fedor (not Randys fault btw) not just in skills but in legacy as well. I disagree with both. 

I know that putting win /loose statistics isnt "accepted" in these debates but i think in this case it cant be "outcluded" either.
Randy is 16-8, he has wins over the likes of vitor belfort x 2 ( whom he lost once to ) , tito ortiz,randleman, pedro rizzo x 2 , chuck liddell ( whom he lost twice to later), gabriel gonzaga and tim sylvia via decision ( fedor recently finished sylvia 36 seconds into the first round. 
After Randy lost twice to liddell at LHW ( he had a win over Arsdale in between ) he got an IMMIDIATE shot at the HW title that he won impressivly over Sylvia. He then won a dominating imo victory over gabriel gonzaga ho had KOed CroCop earlier.

Looking at this record... YES it is impressive, but is it " the worlds best MMA HW " good ? is it anythink there that should implicate that he has a chanse against Fedor ?

Talking about Fedor.....

The guy is undefeated....period. he has one loss via cut wich he revenged by TKOing Koshaka.

other than that... he is undefeated. does he only win over cans ? well lets look :

Ricardo Arona,Renato Sobral, randleman,semmy schilt,heath herring,crocop,coleman,mark hunt,matt lindland,tim sylvia, and lets not forget two imo crushing victories over Nogueira. Fedor is 29-1.....29-1 !!!!! with his one loss coming as earlier explained. i mean looking at this is there really anything to discuss ? is this really a debate ? 
I mean saying that randy is debatable no1 in the world at HW is just insane... hell.. imo he isnt even no2, that spot goes to Nogueira.

Also what tools are Randy going to use against fedor ?

Fedor is better in stand up as well as ground game. a world champion in ***** ho sylvia himself said hit him as hard as he never had been before


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

norway1 said:


> I just want to start this off by saying that i dont hate couture, he is a great fighter and all that.
> 
> I may be wrong but i think this is the first time ive posted about what i think would be the outcome of a Fedor/Randy fight...and,
> 
> ...


On a whole I do agree with you. Fedor is definitly a better fighter then Randy but I found the parts that I highlighted to be extremely funny. 

You quickly pointed out that Fedor sole loss was due to a cut but he avenged it. But you neglected to mention that Randy's sole loss to Vitor was due to a cut caused by seam of his glove. Also, that Randy made Vitor pay dearly afterwards. Instead you say "whom he lost once to." Now if I was a complete noob I would have assumed that Randy/Vitor 2 was actually a fight worth watching.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

I think Randy matches up well with Fedor. If he could use Lindlands gameplan to get Fedor down, he could use his great top control and possibly cut Fedor or grind out a decision. I think Fedor would win, but not as easily as some think.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

norway1 said:


> I just want to start this off by saying that i dont hate couture, he is a great fighter and all that.
> 
> I may be wrong but i think this is the first time ive posted about what i think would be the outcome of a Fedor/Randy fight...and,
> 
> ...


If you consider Hunt, Randleman, schlit, coleman, and lindland (at heavyweight) quality wins than I don't know what to say to you. Other than Lindland these are fighters that are completely one dimensional that haven't done anything in the modern era of MMA. I acknowledge that Fedor has the skills to be #1. I just wish he would fight the best to prove he's #1.


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## Future_Fighter (Feb 6, 2008)

Fedor is the best mixed martial artist currently living today and would destroy couture, If you beleive other wise then i dont know what to tell you...


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

Bonnar426 said:


> On a whole I do agree with you. Fedor is definitly a better fighter then Randy but I found the parts that I highlighted to be extremely funny.
> 
> You quickly pointed out that Fedor sole loss was due to a cut but he avenged it. But you neglected to mention that Randy's sole loss to Vitor was due to a cut caused by seam of his glove. Also, that Randy made Vitor pay dearly afterwards. Instead you say "whom he lost once to." Now if I was a complete noob I would have assumed that Randy/Vitor 2 was actually a fight worth watching.


yeah i know. but that wasnt my intention, i just wanted to emphesize that fedor was undefeated.



rockybalboa25 said:


> All I'm saying is that people are comparing his dominance to that of Anderson Silva.


how is silva more dominant than fedor ? how can you be more dominant than an undefeated fighter ?

also fedor is better than a.silva imo b/c silva is HUGE for MW and normaly walkes atound at 220 ( i have heard different weights so dont rant ). Fedor fights guys that are around his size or bigger.... silva does not


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

norway1 said:


> yeah i know. but that wasnt my intention, i just wanted to emphesize that fedor was undefeated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe because Silva has taken on all comers at 185. He has fought and beat the best at 185, and he will continue to do so. I know Cote isn't the best there is, but he was a replacement for Okami after he got injured.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

rockybalboa25 said:


> Maybe because Silva has taken on all comers at 185. He has fought and beat the best at 185, and he will continue to do so. I know Cote isn't the best there is, but he was a replacement for Okami after he got injured.


If Silva has beaten every contender at 185 so has fedor, plus all future heavyweight contenders.

Silva has, nearly, cleared the UFC middleweight division but there are fighter outside the UFC still.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

GMW said:


> If Silva has beaten every contender at 185 so has fedor, plus all future heavyweight contenders.
> 
> Silva has, nearly, cleared the UFC middleweight division but there are fighter outside the UFC still.


Other than Lawler and Lindland who else is a top Middleweight outside the UFC? Filho after his next fight will be in the UFC, and you know that there are going to make that matchup, and Silva has still shown interest in fighting Okami.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

Akiyama, Mousasi, Misaki, Jacare, Manhoef (would be fun).


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

rockybalboa25 said:


> Other than Lawler and Lindland who else is a top Middleweight outside the UFC? Filho after his next fight will be in the UFC, and you know that there are going to make that matchup, and Silva has still shown interest in fighting Okami.


Ok, but he hasn't beaten Filho yet, has he? Just because he is going to fight him, potentially, doesn't mean we can count it yet.

Lawler
Okami
Filho
Lindland
Mousasi
Misaki
Some would say Trigg but eh...


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

Sorry Trigg, Jacare, and Manhoef shouldn't be in the top 10.
Also I'm not really buying Lawler.

The point is that he is willing to fight the guys in the top 5.

Top 3 heavyweight contenders for Fedor IMO


1. Couture
2. NOG
3. Barnett

These guys have been at this point for years.

When he fought Franklin and Henderson he were a consensus #1 contenders.

Marquardt was the next best in the UFC after that.

He is willing to fight now the #1/2 contenders.

Fedor has no plans to fight the top contenders.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

The point is he's willing to fight them? Are you actually being serious? Fedor's willing to fight anyone alive. 

What shows you Silva has plans to fight top contenders? Have you missed the past week with the talks of his retirement? Fedor has been trying to fight couture, he's beaten nog 2.5 times, he's going to fight arlovski and barnett soon.

The double standards here are ridiculous.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

rockybalboa25 said:


> Sorry Trigg, Jacare, and Manhoef shouldn't be in the top 10.
> Also I'm not really buying Lawler.


So them being in the top 10 makes a difference in whether or not they would give Anderson a good fight? It must be since his loses came to guys not in the top 10.


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## Future_Fighter (Feb 6, 2008)

> Fedor has no plans to fight the top contenders.


Andrei arlovski, tim sylvia.. yeah your right they are no where near contenders :confused02:...


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

Future_Fighter said:


> Andrei arlovski, tim sylvia.. yeah your right they are no where near contenders :confused02:...


Can you honestly say you think Sylvia or Arlovski are the #1 contender at heavyweight? Before Fedor Sylvia had lost 2, and beat a LHW who can't beat Jardine. Arlovski may beat the IFL guys, but who does that impress? Before that lackluster wins over Werdum and O'brien (who was beating him for most of the fight). How does the guy who lost 2/3 to Sylvia stand a better chance by the way?


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

rockybalboa25 said:


> Can you honestly say you think Sylvia or Arlovski are the #1 contender at heavyweight? Before Fedor Sylvia had lost 2, and beat a LHW who can't beat Jardine. Arlovski may beat the IFL guys, but who does that impress? Before that lackluster wins over Werdum and O'brien (who was beating him for most of the fight). How does the guy who lost 2/3 to Sylvia stand a better chance by the way?


Sylvia was the UFC HW champion, and a top 5 HW.

Arlovski, I somewhat agree, he's good but his record isnt amazing. But I don't get how you hold his Sylvia losses against him like that? Sylvia is a very good fighter.

And that guy who can't beat Jardine, I assume you mean? Forrest Griffin? Or is Liddell? Or Brandon Vera? Or...? Hey, I see a pattern, Jardine's actually pretty good?

Geeze, this double standard is extremely stupid.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

GMW said:


> Sylvia was the UFC HW champion, and a top 5 HW.
> 
> Arlovski, I somewhat agree, he's good but his record isnt amazing. But I don't get how you hold his Sylvia losses against him like that? Sylvia is a very good fighter.
> 
> ...


I guess you could have considered Sylvia #5. The point about Sylvia's win being over a LHW who recently lost to Jardine is could Jardine hang with Fedor? When's the last time Fedor fought the second or third best heavyweight in the world? Possibly Aug 2005, definitely Dec 2004. It's just ridiculous to say Fedor is unquestionably the top HW, when he hasn't fought the best in recent years. I said best not 5th best. Would we have the same level of respect for Anderson Silva if he had fought Marquardt and not Franklin/Henderson and won a belt they basically made up just for him?


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

rockybalboa25 said:


> I guess you could have considered Sylvia #5. The point about Sylvia's win being over a LHW who recently lost to Jardine is could Jardine hang with Fedor? When's the last time Fedor fought the second or third best heavyweight in the world? Possibly Aug 2005, definitely Dec 2004. It's just ridiculous to say Fedor is unquestionably the top HW, when he hasn't fought the best in recent years. I said best not 5th best. Would we have the same level of respect for Anderson Silva if he had fought Marquardt and not Franklin/Henderson and won a belt they basically made up just for him?


I'm sorry but who is discussing Fedor being the best? Didn't this start by you saying Silva was better because he was willing to fight everyone while Fedor is running?


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

GMW said:


> I'm sorry but who is discussing Fedor being the best? Didn't this start by you saying Silva was better because he was willing to fight everyone while Fedor is running?


I guess you could have considered Sylvia #5. The point about Sylvia's win being over a LHW who recently lost to Jardine is could Jardine hang with Fedor? When's the last time Fedor fought the second or third best heavyweight in the world? Possibly Aug 2005, definitely Dec 2004. Fedor hasn't fought the best in recent years. I said best not 5th best. Would we have the same level of respect for Anderson Silva if he had fought Marquardt and not Franklin/Henderson and won a belt they basically made up just for him?

I removed the one sentence you focused on. Would you now like to address the actual argument?


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## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

When will this end? Rockybalboa cannot make a legitimate argument and is twisting everything. This doesn't even have to do with the thread anymore and he will continue to twist it and talk stupidly until GMW gives up.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

Why is Vera bring brought up as a LHW in regards to Sylvia? He was a HW when they fought so he should be talked about as a HW, that is a poor attempt to discredit someone. That's like saying Irvin lost to a MW (Silva for the slow), no he lost to a LHW because the fight was at LHW.


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## Scarecrow (Mar 20, 2008)

GMW said:


> We got in quite the debate last night but I think Couture's skills are really overrated. He's impressive for being his age but that doesn't make him a great fighter. Fedor would beat him decisively.


If Chuck can KO Randy with a loopy right hook, and Fedor can demolish Tim with a few punches, I'm thinking now that Randy wouldn't last past the first round.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

MJB23 said:


> When will this end? Rockybalboa cannot make a legitimate argument and is twisting everything. This doesn't even have to do with the thread anymore and he will continue to twist it and talk stupidly until GMW gives up.


Obviously I did make a legitimate argument, since you can't argue with what I said. The bottom line about Fedor is that he may be able to beat Randy. I do think the fact that he won't fight Randy should be looked at. The only thing that was standing between Fedor vs Randy happening after Randy beat Sylvia was Fedor and his management. If another fighter refused the highest payday of his career to fight the other top guy in his division, wouldn't you say he was dodging him? I think Randy poses some serious problems to Fedor. Most experts agree that the best way to beat Fedor is to take him down and control him on the ground while avoiding his submission attempts. That's Randy's bread and butter. As far as the Randy vs Liddell argument, if you think that the Randy Couture that lost twice to Liddell (once basically because a poke in the eye) is the same fighter now then I doubt you've been watching his fights. During the Liddell losses Randy was going through a bitter divorce, and that will mess anyone up. The reason I brought up Vera is because he's the only win out of his last three going into his fight with Fedor. I was trying to say that a #5 ranking was a liitle over embellished for a guy who hadn't beaten a top heavyweight since Arlovski. Let me set one thing straight. I don't hate Fedor. I was a big fan of his in PRIDE, but he has let me down recently by not fighting the best fighters. In 2004-5 he was the best fighter in the world, and I don't think there was heavyweight that could have beaten him. But I don't know what kind of fighter he is now. After three years of fighting lesser competition is he the same Fedor? Can he rise to the occasion like he did against NOG? We don't know. I know the destruction of Sylvia was impressive. However I think my mind would have been put at ease about his skills if it would have been a fight, meaning if he would have been challenged at anytime during the fight.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

rockybalboa25 said:


> The only thing that was standing between Fedor vs Randy happening after Randy beat Sylvia was Fedor and his management.


So you put no blame on the UFC? From Fedor himself.



> The contract that we were presented with by the UFC was simply impossible, couldn’t be signed — I couldn’t leave. If I won, I had to fight eight times in two years. If I lost one fight, then the UFC had the right to rip up the contract. At the conclusion of the contract, if I am undefeated, then it automatically extends for an as yet unspecified period of time, though for the same compensation.
> 
> “Basically I can’t leave undefeated. I can’t give interviews, appear in films or advertising. I don’t have the right to do anything without the UFC’s agreement. I could do nothing without the OK from the UFC. I didn’t have the right to compete in combat ***** competition. It’s my national sport. It’s the Russian sport, which in his time our president competed in, and I no longer have the right to do so. There were many such clauses; the contract was 18 pages in length. It was written in such a way that I had absolutely no rights while the UFC could at any moment, if something didn’t suit them, tear up the agreement. We worked with lawyers who told us that it was patently impossible to sign such a document.”





rockybalboa25 said:


> I was a big fan of his in PRIDE, but he has let me down recently by not fighting the best fighters. In 2004-5 he was the best fighter in the world, and I don't think there was heavyweight that could have beaten him. But I don't know what kind of fighter he is now. After three years of fighting lesser competition is he the same Fedor? Can he rise to the occasion like he did against NOG? We don't know. I know the destruction of Sylvia was impressive. However I think my mind would have been put at ease about his skills if it would have been a fight, meaning if he would have been challenged at anytime during the fight.


Going off of mmaweekly's rankings Fedor has fought 3 of the top 9 HW's (9 because he won't fight Aleks who is ranked). He has fought #2,5,8 and is signed to fight #4. If Randy beats Brock he will be ranked again and I think it's obvious Fedor is not ducking Randy. So if you want him to fight guys in the top 3-4, he has or is going to. The only one in the top 5 he hasn't fought/or is going to so far is Barnett.

Going off Sherdog's he has fought, #2,5,8 and will fight #3.

Off of 5oz of pain he has fought #2 and #8 and is going to fight number #3. (they rank randy still where others don't)

Inside mma he has fought #3 and 7 and will fight #4. Randy is ranked #2.

So besides Randy, who else do you think Fedor "should" fight to prove himself? Because in most rankings he has fought/or will fight the top 3-4 guys. What you are seeming to not understand is at HW for the past couple years, there hasn't been a growth in talent so the rankings have stayed pretty much the same just with the same guys moving up or down but key point, the same guys. Now there seems to be a nice talent pool of guys at HW coming up but none of them are in the top 3 or so that you want Fedor to be fighting. Arguably the only guys in that have been in the top 5 that Fedor hasn't fought is Randy (both Fedor's camp and the UFC to blame for that) and Barnett (Barnett has turned down this fight, in Pride, video of that floating around and then in January for Affliction).

To quote Roy Jones Jr. because it does pertain to Fedor, "And they got the nerve to say I ain't fight nobody, I just make'em look like nobody".


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

rockybalboa25 said:


> The bottom line about Fedor is that he may be able to beat Randy. I do think the fact that he won't fight Randy should be looked at. The only thing that was standing between Fedor vs Randy happening after Randy beat Sylvia was Fedor and his management.


That's debatable. One of the big sticking points for Fedor is that he is also national ***** champion and he can't simply quit that sport- he's a nationaly hero in russia for his ***** achievements. Unfortunately Dana's contracts don't allow fighters to compete in other combat sports. You can call that Fedor's fault but I think its equally Dana's fault- all other promotions Fedor has worked with have accepted his ***** competition and don't seem to have been the worse for it.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

MLS said:


> So you put no blame on the UFC? From Fedor himself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think I already pointed out his dominance early on in his career. I was saying what he had done in the last 3 years.
In the last 3 years:

According to sherdog he has fought-#5, and is scheduled for #3.

According to mmaweekly he has fought #5 and is scheduled for #4.

According to 5oz he fought #8 and is scheduled for #3.

I think you get where I'm going with this. Also with Barnett, he didn't feel it was fair that he would receive 20% of what Fedor would for a fight. So what if he beat some of these guys years ago. If they are the next best he should fight them again. You used a boxing analogy. Roy Jones dodged Antonio Tarver for years by the way. Take the greatest boxer of all time. Sugar Ray Robinson fought Jake Lamotta 6 times. Lamotta won 1 fight. Did that diminish Robinson's legacy? Of course not. It simply showed that he was willing to fight the best even if he had fought them already. I'm pretty sure that Dana "said" (maybe it never really happeed), that at one point conceded that he could fight in *****, but not in Japan. He still turned them down. I do know that Dana talks a lot of BS in interviews.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

rockybalboa25 said:


> I think I already pointed out his dominance early on in his career. I was saying what he had done in the last 3 years.
> In the last 3 years:


Do you not read?



> What you are seeming to not understand is at HW for the past couple years, there hasn't been a growth in talent so the rankings have stayed pretty much the same just with the same guys moving up or down but key point, the same guys.


Kind of hard to beat new guys when there aren't any new guys in the top 5. As I stated, he has beaten most of the guys ranked in the top in all rankings already yet you want him to fight guys in the top 3, so do you want more rematches even though most of Fedor's fight aren't close?



> Also with Barnett, he didn't feel it was fair that he would receive 20% of what Fedor would for a fight. So what if he beat some of these guys years ago. If they are the next best he should fight them again.


So what about Barnett turning down the fight in Pride? Why should he fight a guy he beat already and most of them handily, just to satisfy you? That worked out real well for Franklin against Silva didn't it? Now is about the time when the comment, "anything can happen" will most likely be used or "but but but Andy gave Rich a rematch" yeah because he has a lot of respect for Rich. And how many rematches has Andy had in his career and how many has Fedor?



> You used a boxing analogy. Roy Jones dodged Antonio Tarver for years by the way. Take the greatest boxer of all time. Sugar Ray Robinson fought Jake Lamotta 6 times. Lamotta won 1 fight. Did that diminish Robinson's legacy? Of course not. It simply showed that he was willing to fight the best even if he had fought them already. I'm pretty sure that Dana "said" (maybe it never really happeed), that at one point conceded that he could fight in *****, but not in Japan. He still turned them down. I do know that Dana talks a lot of BS in interviews.


Wow, my quote went waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over your head.

Also, I think SRR fighting Lamotta 6 times had more so to do with him having 202 fights then anything. When you fight that much you are bound to fight people multiple times especially at a time when divisions weren't deep. And I love the classic RJJ ducked this guy and that guy comments.


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