# Brock "Cain has proven himself"



## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Brock Lesnar Wouldn't Have a Problem Fighting Cain Velasquez by Tom Ngo Tom NgoContributor
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Contributor Written on March 03, 2010 Jon Kopaloff/Getty Images It appears Brock Lesnar is the latest to jump aboard Cain Velasquez’ overflowing bandwagon. The UFC heavyweight champion recently gave the up-and-comer props for his 1st round knockout win over Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira at UFC 110 and said the American Kickboxing Academy-trained fighter has earned a shot at his title.

“Cain has proven himself, he’s beaten some guys with credibility and I wouldn’t have a problem stepping in the Octagon with him,” Lesnar told KFAN Sports Radio AM 1130 . “He’s a former wrestler from ASU, former Division 1 All-American with some good hands.

“He’s definitely a force to be reckoned with.”

Prior to Lesnar’s emergence onto the UFC scene, the heavyweight division was clearly the organization’s biggest sore spot. The lack of depth, personality, and excitement had fans praying they would never again be forced to watch Tim Sylvia fight Andrei Arlovski for the umpteenth time.

Lesnar finally made his debut at UFC 81 in February 2008 and the division hasn’t looked back. Although he dominantly dawns gold around his waist, the former WWE star isn’t trying to take credit for the barrage of 265-pound talent that suddenly emerged after his arrival.

“I think it’s great,” Lesnar said of the revamped roster. “Finally there’s a heavyweight division that people are talking about. It’s not just talk about Brock Lesnar or the Randy Couture’s. It’s always good to have a melting pot of heavyweights that are capable of challenging the champions. I think it’s good.”

Frank Mir and Shane Carwin will battle for the interim title at UFC 111 on March 27th in New Jersey. The UFC’s ideal scenario would have a healthy Carwin/Mir winner unify the belt against Lesnar later this summer. However, if the victor gets too banged up, Velasquez would step-in and get the next crack.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ouldnt-have-a-problem-fighting-cain-velasquez


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

I see it going like this, if JDS wins against Gonzaga, he will face Cain for the title, and by that time I hope Lesnar wins in fashion either against Mir or Carwin.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

As much as he has proven himself, he provides nothing new to Brock. Brock is basically Cain Velasquez except bigger, faster and just all around better. Frank Mir and Shane Carwin bring different things to the table and are bigger threats. Cain is good it's just I don't see him beating Brock.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

AlphaDawg said:


> As much as he has proven himself, he provides nothing new to Brock. Brock is basically Cain Velasquez except bigger, faster and just all around better. Frank Mir and Shane Carwin bring different things to the table and are bigger threats. Cain is good it's just I don't see him beating Brock.


Gotta agree here. Cain is great, and I'm excited to see him doing well but...


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## ipbod (Feb 24, 2010)

AlphaDawg said:


> As much as he has proven himself, he provides nothing new to Brock. Brock is basically Cain Velasquez except bigger, faster and just all around better. Frank Mir and Shane Carwin bring different things to the table and are bigger threats. Cain is good it's just I don't see him beating Brock.


Brock does not have standup on Cain's level. Possibly some more power, but footwork and boxing would be a big advantage for Cain in a fight between the two of them.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

AlphaDawg said:


> As much as he has proven himself, he provides nothing new to Brock. Brock is basically Cain Velasquez except bigger, faster and just all around better. Frank Mir and Shane Carwin bring different things to the table and are bigger threats. Cain is good it's just I don't see him beating Brock.


Cains hands are light years ahead of Brocks. Also, how is Brock faster exactly? Cain is very quick. As fast as Brock at least.


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## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

Cain's hands seem pretty fast and accurate. I think he has Brock in that area though Brock probably hits harder. I would pick Brock in a fight though because I'm sure he would just take Cain down since he has so much size on him.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

taking down Cain Velasquez isnt as easy as some of you are making it sound.

what he brings that the others dont is wrestling at brocks calibre. he has held his own or beat guys the size and creditentials of Brock in the past in the form of Cole Konrad and Steve Mocco.

To think Brock can easily take down Cain is foolish. He may be able to do it but i think he would have to work very hard to it, and we all know who has the cardio advantage, dont we??

as far as speed goes, i guess the fight will figure that out, Cain has looked alot faster in UFC bouts then Brock and his pace is much higher.

as far as stand up goes... for those that think Brock is even or close... i dont know what you have been watching so i wont bother argueing.... brock is a big guy with crazy reach, sloppy boxing and great power. Cain has real kickboxing skills and real boxing skills.

Brock has one way to win IMO. Cain has several.

Anybody that says "Brock is just a bigger Cain" hasnt really paid attention at all. seriously.


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## ipbod (Feb 24, 2010)

I agree with alizio even though he's Cain's number one fan. Brock has a size advantage but that didn't stop Cain in wrestling and wont stop him when he faces Brock.

I take Cain by decision or TKO.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

It sounds like brock is happy about the idea of fighting cain.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

xeberus said:


> It sounds like brock is happy about the idea of fighting cain.


 shit talking with Cain wouldnt get him far anyways, im sure he knows that so why waste energy?? Cain isnt going to get in a verbal war.

i hope Brock underestimates Cain asmuch as alot of you seem to. But i doubt that, despite his attitude he is a pretty smart guy.

I by no means think Cain would run thru Brock. I have been a fan of Brocks for along time aswell. I called him winning the title and made nice $ on all of his fights.

I think this would be a war. The only way to beat Lesnar is to not get taken down. I dont see why ppl think Cain has a worse chance then Mir or Carwin....


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

alizio said:


> taking down Cain Velasquez isnt as easy as some of you are making it sound.
> 
> what he brings that the others dont is wrestling at brocks calibre. he has held his own or beat guys the size and creditentials of Brock in the past in the form of Cole Konrad and Steve Mocco.
> 
> ...



totaly agree


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

alizio said:


> shit talking with Cain wouldnt get him far anyways, im sure he knows that so why waste energy?? Cain isnt going to get in a verbal war.
> 
> i hope Brock underestimates Cain asmuch as alot of you seem to. But i doubt that, despite his attitude he is a pretty smart guy.
> 
> ...


I think cain has about the same chance as carwin give or take. Cain probably has better wrestling than carwin, but carwin is way larger and has brutal KO power in 1 punch. However mir is heads above either cain or carwin in skill, ability and size. That being said its hard to take into account the wrestling and will that even matter, brock already took down a way better wrestler than any of these three opponents in randy couture. The only new variable to look at is the size differences, now if Cain starts working towards a fight with lesnar and stacks on 25 more pounds of muscle in the mean time then I'd say he'd be right up there with mir.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

AlphaDawg said:


> As much as he has proven himself, he provides nothing new to Brock. Brock is basically Cain Velasquez except bigger, faster and just all around better. Frank Mir and Shane Carwin bring different things to the table and are bigger threats. Cain is good it's just I don't see him beating Brock.


Cain has way better stand-up than Brock, but Brock packs better power, is faster, is bigger and stronger.

Cain will become champion, though. Sky's the limit.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

xeberus said:


> I think cain has about the same chance as carwin give or take. Cain probably has better wrestling than carwin, but carwin is way larger and has brutal KO power in 1 punch. However mir is heads above either cain or carwin in skill, ability and size. That being said its hard to take into account the wrestling and will that even matter, brock already took down a way better wrestler than any of these three opponents in randy couture. The only new variable to look at is the size differences, now if Cain starts working towards a fight with lesnar and stacks on 25 more pounds of muscle in the mean time then I'd say he'd be right up there with mir.


 Brock took down Randy but couldnt control or hold him down....


if you dont think Randy would get ravashed by Cain then i guess we have an arugement??

Cain takedown Randy easiler IMO. Brock only has the double leg. Cain has way better striking into takedown transitions, leg trips, singles, doubles and his clinch game is as good as Randys (probably better just most "old school" fans cant accept that).

Brock couldnt outwrestle Randy. He won the fight standing. Randy isnt that great standing at all. Cain ran thru a man that ran thru Randy.... Nog controlled, outboxxed and out grappled Randy consistently. 

JMO of course. Im obv a fan of Cains. Im actually a fan of Brocks aswell.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

alizio said:


> Brock took down Randy but couldnt control or hold him down....
> 
> 
> if you dont think Randy would get ravashed by Cain then i guess we have an arugement??
> ...


Not if it were a wrestling match. In which case I imagine randy would do quite well against cain. He took him down a couple times and I imagine he'd do the same to cain. And I bet he's learned from his mistake at trying to advance position to fast. This time I imagine brock will just stay on top of him and take his time like did in his last fight.

I don't think that would matter in the least against brock, I don't see cain being a huge threat at taking him down. In fact randy couldn't, he had to use his world class olympic clinch against the fence to get him down for a split second. 

Brock did out wrestle randy. Even though he did eventually finish the fight with a punch and then 30 hammer fists. 

I don't care much for brock. I like cain/carwin/JDS a little bit better. But I don't think two of those have a chance of beating him and the other not having much of a chance.


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## swedish_fighter (Jul 12, 2009)

Cain has proven that he can fight a former nog, and cans but no big names. Brock would eat Cain.. Let Brock fight Mir again or Carwin.. That's an interesting matchup. Cain would just lay there taking hammer fists.. No interesting IMO. 

To be honest I don't really think so but I find it funny to trash Cain since it aggravates alizio so much.. :thumb02:


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

swedish_fighter said:


> Cain has proven that he can fight a former nog, and cans but no big names. Brock would eat Cain.. Let Brock fight Mir again or Carwin.. That's an interesting matchup. Cain would just lay there taking hammer fists.. No interesting IMO.
> 
> To be honest I don't really think so but I find it funny to trash Cain since it aggravates alizio so much.. :thumb02:


Right now, brock would probably eat cain. A year from now maybe not. 

I would however like to see cain vs jds/mir/cain before cain vs brock, give cain a little more time to bulk up and get ready to face the man of 1000 hams that is brock.


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

Nice to see Brock's nice side


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## swedish_fighter (Jul 12, 2009)

xeberus said:


> I would however like to see cain vs jds/mir/*cain* before cain vs brock, give cain a little more time to bulk up and get ready to face the man of 1000 hams that is brock.


Cain vs Cain.. Interesting idea.. =O


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

AlphaDawg said:


> As much as he has proven himself, he provides nothing new to Brock. Brock is basically Cain Velasquez except bigger,* faster *and just all around better. Frank Mir and Shane Carwin bring different things to the table and are bigger threats. Cain is good it's just I don't see him beating Brock.


I couldn't disagree more with the bolded part. Cain is way faster than Brock. Brock isn't even that fast. Watch him in the second round of the Herring and Couture fights, he is noticeably slower.

This has a lot to with the fact Brock doesn't push a super fast pace. He likes to be in control and methodically beat people down (herring, mir, and even couture fights as examples.

Cain also has another obvious advantage: cardio. Brock has never been tested nor proven to have exceptional cardio. Using the Couture and Herring fights as examples he noticeable slows as he gains control fot he fight.

Cain on the other hand is absolutely relentless. He pushes the fastest pace in the HW division by far.

These are two advantages Cain has over Brock.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Damone said:


> Cain has way better stand-up than Brock, but Brock packs better power, *is faster*, is bigger and stronger.
> 
> Cain will become champion, though. Sky's the limit.


I gotta ask, why do you think Brock is faster?


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Some people say that Cain is equal in wrestling in terms of skill, but once two parties are equally skilled at a certain thing, strength becomes the deciding factor. Brock is light years stronger then Cain, I would even say that Randy might be stonger then Cain. 

Brock is no slouch in the speed department either, it would be a interesting match no doubt. but in the end, Brock would win in the 2nd, possibly early 3rd.. 

maybe in 1-2 years in might be a different case, but once Brock gets back in the ring and gets back into form after this illness, he will be a machine.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> Some people say that Cain is equal in wrestling in terms of skill, but once two parties are equally skilled at a certain thing, strength becomes the deciding factor. Brock is light years stronger then Cain, I would even say that Randy might be stonger then Cain.
> 
> Brock is no slouch in the speed department either, it would be a interesting match no doubt. but in the end, Brock would win in the 2nd, possibly early 3rd..
> 
> maybe in 1-2 years in might be a different case, but once Brock gets back in the ring and gets back into form after this illness, he will be a machine.


 Randy got tossed around by Nog and then flat out admitted he cant hang with the new breed HWs they are too big and strong and moved down....

meanwhile... Cain is tossing around everybody he fights like they are nothing. huge guys like Kongo and Rothwell then he KOs Nog like it was nothing, walks right thru him.... you know... the same Nog that just manhandled, outgrappled and outboxxed Randy....

Randy is stronger then Cain.... ive heard it all. Randy has great technique and skill but he hardly overpowers ppl like Cain does. Cain SLAMS huge HWs consistently. 

wow. what a statement. Ppl are still flat out clueless and in the dark about how strong, explosive and good Cain Velasquez is. Go ask Cole Konrad 2x NCAA Champion if Cain is strong or if he is easy to takedown... jeez.

Randy is Greco, so he is hard to takedown from the upper body and Brock didnt bring enough weapons to the dance, just a big double leg.

Randy couldnt takedown Vera at LHW. He sure as hell isnt taking down Cain at HW. Get a grip ppl. Cain would stomp Captain America in an embarrassing way.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Ape City said:


> I gotta ask, why do you think Brock is faster?


because of proven numbers in the NFL, 4.7 seconds is AMAZING for his size, considering some of the fastest positions in the NFL average around 4.2 to 4.3 seconds.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

who cares if he KO'ed Nog in the first round. look what he did vs Kongo and Rothwell, KO'ing Nog doesnt prove anything about his strength, hes still got pillow hands for all I care. 

Rothwell is fat and slow, of course someone with Cains speed is gonna dance around him. and please dont mention Kongo being taken down, Kongo has a proven track record to have 0 wrestling ability. 

Those are good accomplishments by Cain for getting the victory, but to judge his strength by hitting rothwell in the face 7 times while hes trying to get up and him not even looking dazed...please

*edit* wanted to add this post to my previous, but dont know how to delete this one.. sorry for double post


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> because of proven numbers in the NFL, 4.7 seconds is AMAZING for his size, considering some of the fastest positions in the NFL average around 4.2 to 4.3 seconds.


 there is no doubt Brock is very fast FOR HIS SIZE. He isnt faster then Cain. There is no doubt in my mind about that.

He also visablly slows down later in fights. Cain is literally superhuman in this aspect, even the most duncecap fans have to be aware of how special it is for a HW to have the pace Cain has?? 

I could tell after 3 fights, this kid.... wow. That pace.... unheard of. In the gym its the same thing, unheard of. Out pacing WWs. Out handspeeding LHWs. oh well, if you dont see it yet, u will.

last post in this thread


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

alizio said:


> shit talking with Cain wouldnt get him far anyways, im sure he knows that so why waste energy?? Cain isnt going to get in a verbal war.
> 
> *i hope Brock underestimates Cain asmuch as alot of you seem to.* But i doubt that, despite his attitude he is a pretty smart guy.
> 
> ...



I just don't think people are underestimating him man. You seem like you are trying to make him your cult favorite, meanwhile, he has been the most hyped HW prospect by the underground for over 2 years now. 

Brock know's how good Cain's wrestling credentials are, and I'm sure he's seen his fights. That is all the motivation he needs if this match-up comes along. 

I could definitely see him hurting Brock bad on the feet, as he is obviously much more experienced. But if Brock gets him on his back, he could be exposed.

There is no way I would bet on Lesnar without really good odds, and I am betting they will be on Cain.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

OMG alizio, will you please stop loving Velasquez. He is the most overrated fighter in the UFC I think. He cannot strike that well, his wrestling is OK and he has ZERO sub skills. A true legend like Fedor would pummel him in less than one minute.

EARLY APRIL FOOLS JOKE...from your pal *****



No doubt Cain is legit, would love to see him face Brock and see if he can take the belt.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Ape City said:


> I gotta ask, why do you think Brock is faster?


Well cain has faster hands and head movement. 



Spec0688 said:


> who cares if he KO'ed Nog in the first round. look what he did vs Kongo and Rothwell, KO'ing Nog doesnt prove anything about his strength, hes still got pillow hands for all I care.
> 
> Rothwell is fat and slow, of course someone with Cains speed is gonna dance around him. and please dont mention Kongo being taken down, Kongo has a proven track record to have 0 wrestling ability.
> 
> ...


He does have pillow hands, I've seen nothing from cain that would even insinuate he has 1 punch KO power. He ko'd nog, after hitting him clean with like 30 power punches to the chin. 



SJ said:


> I just don't think people are underestimating him man. You seem like you are trying to make him your cult favorite, meanwhile, he has been the most hyped HW prospect by the underground for over 2 years now.
> 
> Brock know's how good Cain's wrestling credentials are, and I'm sure he's seen his fights. That is all the motivation he needs if this match-up comes along.
> 
> ...


Yea most of the older memebers here have been watching him for years. I remember maybe 2 years ago there was a thread about future HW prospects and he was on the list and he had 2 fights under his belt then, I've been watching him ever since.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Spec0688 said:


> because of proven numbers in the NFL, 4.7 seconds is AMAZING for his size, considering some of the fastest positions in the NFL average around 4.2 to 4.3 seconds.


Uhhh. What has he done recently in MMA fights to prove this? I'm really not concerned with how he did in the NFL, although it is impressive. It just doesn't correlate directly to fighting imo. Not only that did Cain play for the NFL? Is there a comparible or are you just assuming Cain is slower?

Cain strikes faster and keeps a much faster pace than Brock. The pace aspect isn't even debatable. Cain doesn't slow down, Brock sets a steady pace.

In what aspect of fighting is Brock faster?


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Ape City said:


> Uhhh. What has he done recently in MMA fights to prove this? I'm really not concerned with how he did in the NFL, although it is impressive. It just doesn't correlate directly to fighting imo. Not only that did Cain play for the NFL? Is there a comparible or are you just assuming Cain is slower?
> 
> Cain strikes faster and keeps a much faster pace than Brock. The pace aspect isn't even debatable. Cain doesn't slow down, Brock sets a steady pace.
> 
> In what aspect of fighting is Brock faster?


Cain uses his speed to get most takedowns, at least in the Kongo/Rothwell fight, I dont think he can use that speed to get a takedown against Brock.

Cains hand speed is most likely faster, but I am not really concerned about that.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> Cain uses his speed to get most takedowns, at least in the Kongo/Rothwell fight, I dont think he can use that speed to get a takedown against Brock.
> 
> Cains hand speed is most likely faster, but I am not really concerned about that.


 sounds like rich franklin before the vitor fight lol


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

alizio said:


> sounds like rich franklin before the vitor fight lol


Sounds like you cant keep talking about cain, you just said not too long ago that it was your last post in this thread, but of course you cant keep yourself from backing Cain up when a chance is given.


Why even bother using Vitor as an example? We all know that Vitor has the KO power to back that speed up.... and if you couldnt tell already.. Fighters arent exactly truthful when doing a pre-fight "hype" video


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## swedish_fighter (Jul 12, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> Sounds like you cant keep talking about cain, you just said not too long ago that it was your last post in this thread, but of course you cant keep yourself from backing Cain up when a chance is given.
> 
> 
> Why even bother using Vitor as an example? We all know that Vitor has the KO power to back that speed up.... and if you couldnt tell already.. Fighters arent exactly truthful when doing a pre-fight "hype" video


Alizio wants cain to be a symbol for mexican/black pride bla bla.. That's why he is so into him..

Or am I totally wrong here Alizio? :confused02:


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

Well, Velasquez is good, but if he beats Lesnar, it will come as a surprise. Brock seems simply better.


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## DanMMAFan (Apr 13, 2006)

Let me attempt a comparison:

Kicks: Cain
Punching Accuracy: Cain
Punching Power: Lesnar
Chin: Lesnar
Knees: NA
Footwork: Cain
Takedowns: Lesnar
Ground and Pound: Lesnar
Wrestling: Lesnar
Size: Lesnar
Reach: Lesnar
Submissions: NA
Guard: NA
Defensive Grappling: NA
Grappling Transitions: Lesnar
Cardio: Cain
Strength: Lesnar
Takedown Defense: NA

Cain is one of the best heavyweights in the world but Lesnar is a little bit better in a lot of the categories. With each new fight we learn a little bit more about these fighters. Can't wait to find out how JDS and Carwin's all around games are.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> because of proven numbers in the NFL, 4.7 seconds is AMAZING for his size, considering some of the fastest positions in the NFL average around 4.2 to 4.3 seconds.


So I still don't know, why Brock didn't made it into the Vikings team?  

do you have the answer for me??


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## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

I always assumed he just wasn't good at the game. Didn't they want to ship him over to Europe to play for some team over there? And didn't he only play high school football at a small school 10 years before trying out?


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

alizio said:


> Brock Lesnar Wouldn't Have a Problem Fighting Cain Velasquez by Tom Ngo Tom NgoContributor
> 35 articles written
> 68 comments written
> 4 fans
> ...


 
I'm shocked at who posted this article...I kid I kid....Brock is doing what he has lacked many times in the past and is showing respect...please remember he is addressing another wrestler so there is that respect, especially cuz Cain ain't shooting his mouth off to Brock....


alizio said:


> taking down Cain Velasquez isnt as easy as some of you are making it sound.
> 
> what he brings that the others dont is wrestling at brocks calibre. he has held his own or beat guys the size and creditentials of Brock in the past in the form of Cole Konrad and Steve Mocco.
> 
> ...


 
Brock will run through Cain, not wrestle him out power him with sheer force, Cain IMO would need to be alot bigger to be able to handle Brock and his power.....THATS not to discredit your points on Cain It's just like Mir....he's got all the tool's the man is just so dam large though....same goes for Cain, Brock is too dam big he would beat Cain on the ground and possibly before it even got there....:thumbsup:


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

What the hell? A non-douchebag Lesnar...great, who am I gonna hate now! Well there's always the new incarnation of Mir...

But no joke, its good to see that he's not taking Cain as a potential opponent really lightly. Though, it could just be talk to create a contrast between him and the newest version of Mir...either way, stokes for the possibility of a Cain vs Lesnar fight.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> So I still don't know, why Brock didn't made it into the Vikings team?
> 
> do you have the answer for me??


Brock didnt make the Vikings practice squad because the team already had enough players at that position, defensive end I think....... He simply didnt fit the teams needs at the time.

Brock was the last guy the Vikings cut before the season started. And many of the teams defensive coaches said it was a mistake to let him go.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Vikings wanted to send him to NFL europe, but Lesnar decided not to pursue the NFL becuase he would be too far from his family


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Spec0688 said:


> Cain uses his speed to get most takedowns, at least in the Kongo/Rothwell fight, I dont think he can use that speed to get a takedown against Brock.
> 
> Cains hand speed is most likely faster, but I am not really concerned about that.


So, in other words, Cain is faster. That's what I responded to in your first post, the notion that Brock was faster.

Clearly if Cain has the speed in wrestling and striking he is faster than Brock, especially considering the pace both set.

I'm not arguing who would win the fight, I was just refuting the point both you and Damone made that Brock is faster; he isn't.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

I didnt say Cain was faster then brock in his wrestling, brocks feet are a lot faster then his hands, thats why I said Cains hands are faster. 

I really dont know who would be faster going in for the 2 legs, it would be close..


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## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

AlphaDawg said:


> As much as he has proven himself, he provides nothing new to Brock. Brock is basically Cain Velasquez except bigger, faster and just all around better. Frank Mir and *Shane Carwin bring different things to the table and are bigger threats.* Cain is good it's just I don't see him beating Brock.


Carwin is a turd and will get exposed in due time. He got his bell rung twice by Gonzagha before he knew what was even happening. Neil Wain connected on him. His wrestling credentials aren't that good either.


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## _CaptainRon (May 8, 2007)

Cain is a badass, but Brock will prove to be the better wrestler and the stronger guy. He will put Cain on his back and pound on him, Cain's only chance is to catch Brock standing, early in the fight.


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## FeedMyLegacy (Feb 25, 2010)

Cain is ready to take on Brock IMO he is a great wrestler, amazing cardio, and extremely fast. I would take Cain.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Think it'll be a hustle and tustle fight with Brock constantly going for the take down unless he gets a clean single/double right off the bat which I'd imagine he can do. If he can bomb a 400-500lb wrestler he can outmuscle anybody with or without technique. That would just tire out Cain having to fight against all that weight. 

Technique wise we all know Cain is better, but once Brock gains top position he'll give anybody a hard time with all that mass.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Why does everybody think Cain has better wrestling technique than Lesnar???


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## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

JimmyJames said:


> Why does everybody think Cain has better wrestling technique than Lesnar???


Because being a 2x all american wrestler == National Champion???


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

do u really think Brock Lesnar was made to play a team sport? lol thats why he got cut, he was offending ppl from the get go, a no-no in the NFL, saying he doesnt like gays etc etc from the get go

Brock isnt a team player, Brock is about Brock. His football intelligence also sucked ass, all the atletism in the world doesnt save you if you dont know wtf is going on and some defenses are complex.

Ppl just read creditentals off some site and never really watched either Brock nor Cain in college.... to say Brock is 10x the wrestler Cain is shows such great ignorance i dont know why i keep argueing it. Cains era was one of the toughest of all time, two of the greatest wrestlers in NCAA history were in the tournys he was in, Cole Konrad and Steve Mocco. Its like going up against Magic and Bird. Cain had a draw with Konrad that many ppl thought he got robbed on in the semis.... the difference between Brocks credentials and Cains credentials are minisule. altho Brock had to wrestle argueably the GOAT in Stephen Neal. 

Cain BEAT a 2x NCAA Champion.... he is on that level. Dont let size fool you, Cain has been wrestling monsters his entire life.

but why talk real sense... brock big, brock smash, brock win ROAR!!!!

for those saying Cain needs to add mass... that will take away what makes him special. he isnt desperate for answers like Frank Mir. He wont be taken down easily and owned like Frank Mir was and that mass wont save Frank Mir.

That mass doesnt make Frank Mir a world class wrestler suddenly, he is still screwed lol


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I should re-phrase. Better technique striking wise. As for wrestling we have yet to see unless they face off. All one has to do is view the training tapes with both fighters hitting the pads. But you know it's one of those things where technique goes out the window when you have a 300lb behomoth all over you. Look at Frank. A black belt jiu jitsu rendered useless on the ground. 

Either way he has his chance after Carwin vs Frank. Still trying to figure out who takes that one. Think I'm going with Carwin especially since that was supposed to be the original match up anways; Carwin vs Brock.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Brock respects great wrestlers. And Cain is a great wrestler. Remember, the wrestlers have a strong sense of fraternity: Brock, Randy, Cain, these are three top notch heavyweights with similar roots in amateur wrestling and they ooze respect for another.

Randy got out of his seat to give Mark Munoz, another terrific wrestler a standing 'o' after his win. Heck, I thought I saw a tear forming in Randy's eye.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Just because Brock gets held A LITTLE from a top Greco guy like Randy doesn't mean a freestyle wrestler like Cain that has the same style as Brock is going to be able to control...


THE BIG QUESTION IS CAIN GOING TO BE ON TOP OF BROCK LESNAR....

Answer, No......

Can Brock be on top of Cain controlling the wrests and swallowing him with his big ass body....

Answer, Yes......

Cain obviously has better boxing, but nothing when it comes to reach and power, yeah Brock is sloppy with his hands but that doesn't matter if someone with his size needs only one shot, or long arms to throw punches to get the TD.

Brock is going to simply clinch take this dude down and hold him there till the round ends....

The question is, is Cain going to be able to do enough damage while there standing... Which imo is a fools hope...

Brock will win Via ground spanking....

And in my opinion he is lucky he doesn't have to fight Mir or Carwin to face Brock if he gets the quick title shot

I dont even see Cain getting threw Mir if that was his next fight


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Cain owned Nogueira for sure, but Cain and Brock are completely different fighters.

One thing which I've always wondered about: why does Nogueira always insist on getting his ass kicked? He stands right in front of his opponents and practically invites them to slap him silly for as long as they want. 

Brock, who seems to share Matt Hughes' aversion to standup, gets a hold of his opponent right away and holds him down like a vulnerable insect until they cry uncle. 

Cain is a bad man, but Brock is just a bit higher up on the food chain. 

....isn't he always? ;-)


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

I love Alizio campain raise01:

He is right most of time IMHO!

Im sick of ppl making Brock super unhumanly strong.

First there is possibility that he will not be as strong as he used to be. Second you cant compare strenght without some empiric stat. I mean even some lifting stats.

Everyone involved in fighting knew that even if your oponent is stronger you can out skill him - makes you look stronger.

Look at Fedor. Does he look strong? No way! Is he strong? Incredibly!

Muscle mass is not everything ppl! 

In my eyes there is possibility that Cain has equal str as Brock. Based on theirs wrestling backround Cain is more skilled. Based on UFC Cain has better cardio. Conclusion? Every second of that fight Cain will be stronger and stronger than Brock. And I dont see any 1punch KO power in Brock. So this fight will last few minutes. Disadvantage Brock..

If anyone atm in UFC HW will be able to defead Brock in HIS game it will be Cain.

Edit: It seems to me, that Alizio bring always some facts in his post. Im trying about same thing.. Almost all Brock fans only say - he is just faster, bigger, strong, he will put him on back and pound him, cain cant take him down.. You based that on WHAT? Tell me please. Thanx


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Atilak said:


> I love Alizio campain raise01:
> 
> He is right most of time IMHO!
> 
> ...


 
Cain doesnt have the background in ***** that Fedor, plus Fedor is excellent in many other disciplines.....not just wrestling.... so Fedor has the ability to throw people around......People base the question in your edit off thatfact that in fact thats what Brock does. Look at his fights with Mir and herring all he did was bullruch them get their backs and stay there, granted in the 2nd Mir fight Brock showed more skill controling his base and pinning Mirs wrist....

Its based on the fact that everyone he has fought he has beaten in that fashion.......Have you been watching Brock fight???? I find your question kinda out there, I mean all you have to do is have seen his fights to know this...


Conclusion....Brock mauls Cain in the first or scond round and Cains cardio never needs to make the difference, plus Brock has pretty good cardio....:thumbsup:


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## swedish_fighter (Jul 12, 2009)

Without comparison cain to lessnar. I want to see Cain fight some other top fighters soon. That way we will kinda get a good hint if Cain is the new Fedor or just a very good fighter..

Right now I see Cain as a fighter similar to Carwin, a fighter that has proven to be better than the cans hes been fighting. But now its time to step it up. Carwin having a 11-0 record with his longest fight going to the second minute makes him probably one of the more bad-ass punchers out there. Cain having to go to the judges table against kongo pretty much proves that maby his skills isn't too extreme. Maby the Nog fight included a "lucky" punch, an out of shape nog or maby Cain has a fighting style that nog finds hard facing.. IDK..

Also regarding Brock vs Cain in wrestling. Wrestling is a totally different game, this is wrestling:






Wrestling is not MMA, and don't include punching and stuff like that. Maby Brock can't out-wrestle Cain, but does he have to when he can just lay there and ground and pound? I think Cain has an edge standing while brock with his size and probably a bit more strength has the edge on the ground.. No doubt in my mind that its more simple to remove a guy weighting less from the top than one weighting more.. Even if they have similar strenght Brock has the Weight.

Lets see Cain in some more fights, hopefully against some big names.. And if he demolishes those in a brutal fashion I would say he is a top fighter. But right now he has yet to fight anyone from the top 5 HW division?


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Machida Karate said:


> Just because Brock gets held A LITTLE from a top Greco guy like Randy doesn't mean a freestyle wrestler like Cain that has the same style as Brock is going to be able to control...
> 
> 
> *THE BIG QUESTION IS CAIN GOING TO BE ON TOP OF BROCK LESNAR....
> ...


Why are you so sure Cain cannot get on top of Brock? Why are you so sure Brock will be able to easily take Cain down?

The only reason you give after the bolded part is size, but what does size matter if you can't use it effectively? Brock slows down noticeably after the first round and I think thi is when Cain will take advantage and keep it standing or even take Brock down.










This is second round in the Couture fight. *Brock is not an unstoppable takedown machine people!!!!!!* I honestly think some of you forget he has had takedowns stuffed by both Couture and Herring! Alot of you seem to only be remembering the second Mir fight.

What makes you think his takedowns will be so much more effective vs a superstar wrestler like Cain?

Also, what makes you think Brock can keep up with Cains pace?

Again, I am not neccesarily picking Cain to win this fight, but I think for the reasons I have been stating in this thread Cain poses by far the greatest threat to the HW title. I certainly don't see Uber Mir 3.0 out wrestling Brock just because he put on 20 pounds.



coldcall420 said:


> Conclusion....Brock mauls Cain in the first or scond round and Cains cardio never needs to make the difference, plus Brock has pretty good cardio....:thumbsup:




I have to agree with Alizio. You guys are pretty much just saying "Brock is big and will do what he's done before", which could very well happen, don't get me wrong. I just think you guys are ignoring the very real advantages Cain does have in speed and cardio (Brock has the size and strength). If Cain can whether the storm in the first round we may see a very different second round imo.

I think this will be a very good fight, a lot closer than most are making it sound.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Ape City said:


> I have to agree with Alizio. You guys are pretty much just saying "Brock is big and will do what he's done before", which could very well happen, don't get me wrong. I just think you guys are ignoring the very real advantages Cain does have in speed and cardio (Brock has the size and strength). If Cain can whether the storm in the first round we may see a very different second round imo.
> 
> I think this will be a very good fight, a lot closer than most are making it sound.


 
I'd be pleased to Sig bet you should it ever happen, much more likely is JDS vs. Cain and LesNAr and Mir settling things after Mir beats Carwin.....however, eventually Im sure they will fight, it seems sooner or later it will happen....:thumb02:


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## tlilly (Nov 13, 2009)

I think we are all ignoring the fact that Lesnar is coming back from serious injuries. Do we even know if he will be back to his old form? I'd much rather see Lesnar fight the winner of carwin/mir first before we jump to any conclusion about brock's wrestling. Also I'm not convinced Cain can beat JDS either.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

wrong thread.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

coldcall420 said:


> I'd be pleased to Sig bet you should it ever happen, much more likely is JDS vs. Cain and LesNAr and Mir settling things after Mir beats Carwin.....however, eventually Im sure they will fight, it seems sooner or later it will happen....:thumb02:


Well I never said I think Brock would win, I was just pointing out that I think Cain is faster and has better cardio while Brock is bigger and stronger.

My main arguement is the fight wwill be a lot closer than some people think based on this.

I could see Brock holding him down for 5 rouns or even finishing fast. Could also see Cain doing the same.

I'll take the bet anyways, though. Sig bets are always fun!


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

whats this Greco nonsense u all talk about?? do u even know what u spew??

freestyle allows ALL GRECO moves.... Greco doesnt allow freestyle moves.....

freestyle is much more versatile and many freestylers can make the tranisition to greco

its very hard the other way around, so many more types pf takedowns and techniques in freestyle

just cuz Randy uses greco style to stay standing doesnt mean Cain wouldnt... jeeez. it really sounds like alot of u read a little tidbit on something and become a expert in it...

randy only did well cuz he is greco....

too bad Cain is GODLY in the clinch.... you know.... like Greco wrestlers are.... jeez

Cool Story, Bros!!

nobody really bringing any real reason Brock should be able to easily control Cain other then size. His pedigree and results dont really prove he would. If a smaller weaker, slower and declining Randy would do better.

Do ppl forget that Nog took down and CONTROLLED Randy better then Brock did?? is that cuz Nog is 6f8 350 pounds wrestler??? jeez


Second, there have been very many very successful free style collegiate wrestlers in MMA. Matt Hughes, Mark Coleman, Chuck Liddell, Tito Ortiz, Rashad Evans, Urijah Faber, Rampage Jackson, Josh Burkman, John Fitch, Mark Kerr, Kevin Randleman, Josh Koschek, the list goes on and on and on. If anything there have been more top free style wrestlers than Greco wrestlers in MMA

nevermind that Randy has EXTENSIVE freestyle background aswell. lets just call him pure Greco and ignore 3x all american folkstyle (freestyle). lets just label all of quest greco guys evne tho they all started in freestyle. Because freestyle allows GRECO MOVES.... as i said. Its not as hard to learn freestyle then greco as it is greco then freestyle.

The real big advantage Greco guys have is it can make up for lack of striking as it does for Randy,... Cain doesnt have that problem, he can strike very well.


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## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

Cain could probably match Lesnar in MMA wrestling, at least avoiding TD's, especially after the 1st/2nd round.

Stand-up, it looks like Cain is better, but Brock has landed some hard shots on all of his opponents so far and hasn't really eaten much leather himself so he's doing something right.

Tough fight to call, and I doubt there will be much trash-talking between them if they square off. I'll probably root for Cain just because he'd be the underdog 




alizio said:


> whats this Greco nonsense u all talk about?? do u even know what u spew??
> 
> freestyle allows ALL GRECO moves.... Greco doesnt allow freestyle moves.....
> 
> ...


IMO you are over-simplifying the relationship between Greco and Freestyle. Sure you can do Greco moves in Freestyle....just like a kick-boxer can box, but not the same a boxer if that makes sense.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Ape City said:


> Why are you so sure Cain cannot get on top of Brock? Why are you so sure Brock will be able to easily take Cain down?


LOL i love how a couple weeks ago people doubted if he could beat Nog now he is going to control Brock and be on top?

Cain Hasn't fought a guy like Brock and Brock the same but Cain is a lot smaller in Frame and Mass WHICH DO help with wrestling A LOT.... Ive wrestled all my life, and ive seen plenty of matches, and ur trippen if u see Cain doing anything like he has been doing to Rothwell or Kongo, and the only shot he has is to catch him with a KO punch like he got on Nog.

If you honestly see Cain on top of Brock controlling him then you need to see this fight more then anyone....

Brock is still a baby in this sport and is getting freakishly better every time we see him, and on Cains defense he is too.

And that includes his Takedowns

And i could see your argument about Cain being the biggest threat to the title, although i would like to see him try his wrestling with a guy like Mir and compare that to how Brock ate Mir alive...

This fight is going to happen no matter what one day so ull get ur answer soon


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

cain is pretty good


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

alizio said:


> cain is pretty good


Brock is just so much better:confused02:


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## Ansem (Oct 16, 2009)

JDS will destroy both.


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## Ruckus (Oct 2, 2009)

Why is it assumed that Cain has better cardio than Brock. IIRC we have yet to see Brock's tank really tested. There is of course the long lay off and we don't know how that will effect Brock and his cardio. Yet he has 6 or 7 months to get back into shape before his next fight. 

I try really hard to not bring up that other thing Brock used to do however I do recall a marathon match of over an hour in which Brock was throwing his 300+ lbs frame around. That certainly showed he has some endurance in regards to cardio, doesn't it? 

Cain blew me away with his win over Nog, I admit that I was shocked. It's not that I didn't think he could win, rather just not in the dominant fashion that he did. Just a little perspective as well in regards to Nog, he is 3-2 in the UFC and has battled 2 staph infections over the course of a little over a year. Quite different from the Nog of Pride. Also, not to take anything away from Cain, however Brock is a completely different beast than Nog, as is Mir, Carwin and lets not forget about JDS (whom most people seem to overlook for some unknown reason to me). 

To be clear, Cain is definitely a big player in the HW division. A welcomed sight considering the past years of this division. His opportunity is going to come and its nice to see Brock show some respect for another fighter. 

That time however is not now. I really don't see the winner of Mir/Carwin (Mir) not being able to fight Brock in June or July. Which means that Cain will be fighting the winner of JDS/Gonzaga (JDS), hopefully on the same card. 

I REALLY want to see Cain vs. JDS and I will certainly have a sig bet for you Alizio if this goes down like I think it will.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> Cains hands are light years ahead of Brocks. Also, how is Brock faster exactly? Cain is very quick. As fast as Brock at least.


Every fighter who has faced Brock has said his speed was ridiculous and unpredictable. I've never heard any of Cain's opponents say anything about his speed.


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## swedish_fighter (Jul 12, 2009)

alizio said:


> cain is pretty good





Spec0688 said:


> Brock is just so much better:confused02:





Ansem said:


> JDS will destroy both.


And this guy would destroy all three of them:





Lol at the ref having to go for an armbar of some sort before the roid-rage calms down.. :thumbsup:


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

swedish_fighter said:


> And this guy would destroy all three of them:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


haha Yea I saw his fight awhile back. Guy is GIGANTIC. He's sloppy but I can't wait to see how he does when he gets more experience.


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## Ground'N'Pound5 (Aug 7, 2009)

lol check it


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## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

I like how he chases him down with leg kicks lol.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Ape City said:


> Well I never said I think Brock would win, I was just pointing out that I think Cain is faster and has better cardio while Brock is bigger and stronger.
> 
> My main arguement is the fight wwill be a lot closer than some people think based on this.
> 
> ...


 
I agree with your post other than that Cain might do the same to Brock for 5 rounds, or 3 for that matter.....Cain isnt gonna overpower Brock.......PERIOD.....I know he is strong people but he isnt stronger than Brock.....




alizio said:


> whats this Greco nonsense u all talk about?? do u even know what u spew??
> 
> freestyle allows ALL GRECO moves.... Greco doesnt allow freestyle moves.....
> 
> ...


 
I'm only responding to the NOG/Randy portion of this post, I thought really NOG got the better of Randy in the stand up and thats what won him the fight.....he never controlled Randy for any length of time on the ground, most of the fight was on their feet....

Also Brock has many skills that he can use to beat Cain, Im just not sure what they are......go back to all the Brock vs. whoever threads and you'll laugh your ass off alizio. He really gets a guys back does that spinning thing while he hammers with the right arm and grinds out a decision cuz the people beneath him cannot get him off....

I will say the same thing I have always said what makes Brock Brock is his sheer size.....yes there are skills there but they are infantile apart from his wrestling......bottom line is the argument that he is bigger so he wins unfortunately is true........why do you think I hate Brock, and do you know how many times i have debated the same thing but just substitute Mir for Cain in this case....:thumbsup:


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

Lesnar vs Kane would be good:thumb02:


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## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

pipe said:


> Lesnar vs Kane would be good:thumb02:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDBv9hhMWek


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## Grotty (Jul 21, 2006)

AlphaDawg said:


> As much as he has proven himself, he provides nothing new to Brock. Brock is basically Cain Velasquez except bigger, faster and just all around better. Frank Mir and Shane Carwin bring different things to the table and are bigger threats. Cain is good it's just I don't see him beating Brock.


Forget about who would win/lose should they meet up, Velasquez's boxing is far better technically than Lesnars, faster well he is very fast especially for such a big man but this point could be debated either way.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> I will say the same thing I have always said what makes Brock Brock is his sheer size.....yes there are skills there but they are infantile apart from his wrestling......bottom line is the argument that he is bigger so he wins unfortunately is true........why do you think I hate Brock, and do you know how many times i have debated the same thing but just substitute Mir for Cain in this case....:thumbsup:


See I dislike Lesnar for that very reason(bigness), he's a huge monsterous human being. He's essentially the anti-thesis to eevrything I ever believed about martial arts. That size doesn't matter, skill is everything. (not to say he's not skilled, in his ground he seems almost effortless, though occassionally his takedowns fail)


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

This one always gets me. People hate Brock for his raw athletic ability. Nobody hates Anderson for his freakish reflexes. Nobody hates BJ for his flexibility and punching power. But Brock? He's big so we hate him. It just doesn't make any damn sense.

And the whole size doesn't matter myth to martial arts has always been just that. At roughly equal levels of skill physical ability is a huge factor. I've been doing martial arts for twenty years and have two black belts. And I have had to listen to this statement so many times and I have had to tell those people that that belief makes no sense. Can a smaller guy beat a bigger guy? Sure but if the skills are even close it's probably a good bet that the more physically gifted will win. 

So one last time. Skill is not everything. If you don't have equal physical ability then it doesn't matter how hard you train.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Squirrelfighter said:


> See I dislike Lesnar for that very reason(bigness), he's a huge monsterous human being. He's essentially the anti-thesis to eevrything I ever believed about martial arts. *That size doesn't matter, skill is everything.* (not to say he's not skilled, in his ground he seems almost effortless, though occassionally his takedowns fail)


Unfortunatly what you believed is completely wrong. Size is everything (if skill is present). 

Everyone always imagines some hulking brute fighting a very skilled smaller man, but this has to do with skill vs size. People fail to recognize that skill is also a factor that varies; the samller man is not always more skilled. Therefore size does matter, and size is everything when skill is equal.

People simply fail to reverse the arguement: if two opponents of completely equal skill fight and the only difference is size and strength the bigger man will win every time. So you tell me, how can size not matter?


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

deadmanshand said:


> This one always gets me. People hate Brock for his raw athletic ability. Nobody hates Anderson for his freakish reflexes. Nobody hates BJ for his flexibility and punching power. But Brock? He's big so we hate him. It just doesn't make any damn sense.
> 
> And the whole size doesn't matter myth to martial arts has always been just that. At roughly equal levels of skill physical ability is a huge factor. I've been doing martial arts for twenty years and have two black belts. And I have had to listen to this statement so many times and I have had to tell those people that that belief makes no sense. Can a smaller guy beat a bigger guy? Sure but if the skills are even close it's probably a good bet that the more physically gifted will win.
> 
> So one last time. Skill is not everything. If you don't have equal physical ability then it doesn't matter how hard you train.


THANK YOU. I am so sick of hearing people say "skill is everything". It just isn't true.

edit: arg I keep thinking it will auto combine the posts for me. sry to DP.


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## Coosh (Sep 25, 2009)

Squirrelfighter said:


> See I dislike Lesnar for that very reason(bigness), he's a huge monsterous human being. He's essentially the anti-thesis to eevrything I ever believed about martial arts. That size doesn't matter, skill is everything. (not to say he's not skilled, in his ground he seems almost effortless, though occassionally his takedowns fail)


I think when people say it's only Brock's size, they are attempting to minimize him.

It's clearly not just his size. He's a freak athlete. Men so big and strong, shouldn't be so fast and athletic. Not to mention his incredible wrestling base.

Brock is going to be one of the top HW's if not the top HW for a LONG time. People need to get used to that idea.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Coosh said:


> I think when people say it's only Brock's size, they are attempting to minimize him.
> 
> It's clearly not just his size. He's a freak athlete. Men so big and strong, shouldn't be so fast and athletic. Not to mention his incredible wrestling base.
> 
> Brock is going to be one of the top HW's if not the top HW for a LONG time. People need to get used to that idea.


 
LOL.....you essentially just pointed out everything that has been stated on this thread, we know he is freakish big, has wrestling, and has a great base. Mir has a better skill set, he just doesn't have lunch boxes for hands.....

Brock does have great speed and agility for a large man......so what, put him in against the same size dude with a black in Jitz you get Mir LesNAR 1...


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## Coosh (Sep 25, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> LOL.....you essentially just pointed out everything that has been stated on this thread, we know he is freakish big, has wrestling, and has a great base. Mir has a better skill set, he just doesn't have lunch boxes for hands.....
> 
> Brock does have great speed and agility for a large man......so what, put him in against the same size dude with a black in Jitz you get Mir LesNAR 1...


Why do people have this ass backwards logic when it comes to Brock?

Surely you know enough about MMA to realize that being big doesn't really provide any kind of significant advantage when it comes to BJJ and disadvantages come along with it as well? BJJ is about being explosive and quick like Fedor, not about being huge.

We saw how Brock fared against Mir in the second fight and at this point with a little more experience I really doubt many guys in MMA can sub him, if any at all.


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## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

Coosh said:


> Why do people have this ass backwards logic when it comes to Brock?
> 
> Surely you know enough about MMA to realize that being big doesn't really provide any kind of significant advantage when it comes to BJJ and disadvantages come along with it as well? BJJ is about *being explosive and quick* like Fedor, not about being huge.
> 
> We saw how Brock fared against Mir in the second fight and at this point with a little more experience I really doubt many guys in MMA can sub him, if any at all.


I agree with you 100% on that. Explosiveness is probably the most important physical part of MMA, or most sports really and Brock (along with Cain and JDS) is probably the most explosive/quick HW in the UFC on top of being pretty skilled. Carwin seems to be a bit of an exception because he is strong and skilled, but not too explosive...and still hasn't lost so maybe I'm wrong about it all


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## Grotty (Jul 21, 2006)

What makes me laugh is that Lesnar is basically saying Velasquez has earnt the right to fight him, could this be construed as arrogant? im not sure as its hard to tell what context this comment was made in, Velasquez has fought as many decent opponents as Lesnar


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Coosh said:


> Why do people have this ass backwards logic when it comes to Brock?
> 
> Surely you know enough about MMA to realize that being big doesn't really provide any kind of significant advantage when it comes to BJJ and disadvantages come along with it as well? BJJ is about being explosive and quick like Fedor, not about being huge.
> 
> We saw how Brock fared against Mir in the second fight and at this point with a little more experience I really doubt many guys in MMA can sub him, if any at all.


 
Him being huge negates the BJJ being used against him.....His size absolutely provides an advantage, how you can say it doesn't without knowing any MMA I'm not sure....

I'll give you it makes his practice of BJJ slightly more difficult in terms of subs and what not but in general his sheer size and power have won him alot of his 5 fights or so.....


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

i dont know much about BJJ so i wont argue the size thing.

what i know is wrestling and boxing... wrestling his size is obviously a big advantage...

boxing.... have you really ever seen a guy that big or wide have fast hands, crisp combos or deadly accuracy?? No. This is where his SEVERE disadvantage comes into play.

Regardless of what ppl wanna say. Brock hasnt faced a good striker yet. Frank isnt that. He is decent and getting better but far from great.

Nog was sick, i believe that only cuz somebody pointed out his pre fight weight.... doesnt make sense, he is NEVER that heavy.

Mir threw the same combo all night long vs Nog. straight, straight, upper cut. That shit wont fly against good strikers IMO

Brock faced a wrestler once, one who is much slower with even worse striking then his own (hard to find). Hardly proof he can deal with wrestlers unless they are one dimensional.

He settled on standing with Randy. Something he hasnt settled on with anybody else, cuz he was working himself to death trying for the takedown and couldnt secure or hold one....also cuz Randy has no standup and definately lacks the power to hurt Lesnar.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

alizio said:


> i dont know much about BJJ so i wont argue the size thing.
> 
> what i know is wrestling and boxing... wrestling his size is obviously a big advantage...
> 
> ...


 
Go re watch Mir vs. NOG, Mir's first strikes were like a 7 shot combination of not only straights and uppercuts but also kicks as well to the head(nice for a HW) and to the knee's and body.....

I agree Mir's stand up isn't the best but its on a fast track of improvement and its closer to being really good as opposed to just good...imho:thumbsup:

I can see where this is going with the wrestler's and striker's alizio(LOL) and i think Cain does have that power that Randy doesn't, but once again if Cain and Brock went.....your looking at 2 wrestlers at the end of the day.........I love Cain and hate Brock so I would like to say that Cain takes it......I just dont think he would.

Thats not meant to start a debate, FTR, I dont think Cain cold take Mir, but once again that just my opinion...

Either way, Brock's biggest asset clearly is his size and if there is someone that has close to or equal size with more skills....I would lean towards them, the only person besides Carwin trying to get to Brock's size and is actively working at it is Mir. Throw in the fact that Mir now totally hates Brock.....yeah a good rubber match somewhere in the future...:thumbsup:


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

dont 4get CC while u guys argue about Brocks BJJ creditentials that Cain is a World Champion in BJJ.... i doubt he is getting subbed easy either. Horrible matchup for Mir IMO but we can bet on that when/if it happens


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## Grotty (Jul 21, 2006)

Strength is a valuable assett but its not a bench press competition so i would never underestimates Cains chances and to be honest i see him as Lesnars toughest future opponent yet and yes i believe he has got the skills to beat him but its gonna be a war.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

All Cain needs to do is to keep this fight standing! If he really succeed in doing so, than I really don't see how he could lose that fight. Even though Brock dropped Mir and Herring. 

PS: I would bet a lot of money on a Cain victory over Mir :thumbsup:


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> All Cain needs to do is to keep this fight standing! If he really succeed in doing so, than I really don't see how he could lose that fight. Even though Brock dropped Mir and Herring.
> 
> PS: I would bet a lot of money on a Cain victory over Mir :thumbsup:


 
Bobby!!!!

If Cain stands with Brock he'll get murdered, he stood with Kongo and got dropped twice, also Mir def has better Jitz than Cain and also better stand up......what is happening to you??? Are you feeling okay lately??


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Bobby!!!!
> 
> If Cain stands with Brock he'll get murdered, he stood with Kongo and got dropped twice, also Mir def has better Jitz than Cain and also better stand up......what is happening to you??? Are you feeling okay lately??


lol CC I am fine my friend 

I mean Cain is probably the only fighter in the HW devision, who could actually get back up to his feet or doesn't even have to touch the map in a fight with Brock. Even though, I believe that Brock would take him down at least 1 or 2 times. But CC do you really rank Brocks standup higher then Cains?? 

Against Mir however, it's Wrestling vs. BJJ. I nearly almost always take a wrestler with ( decent sub defense against a BJJ black belt ). It's just so hard to sub somebody from your guard today. I truly believe that the guard is dead in MMA unless your name is Demian Maia or Anderson Silva maybe..^^

I rank Cain's standup higher then Mir's to be honest! Hope we will see this fight someday.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...Nice to hear Brock give a compliment. He knows Cain is coming for that belt with respect along with that. Velasquez is a great fighter but his next fight will be his toughest test to date. Junior, Mir or Carwin can put that first blemish on his record. I'm still holding out for Junior & Cain to go at it. If that fight happens, it will be the most furious HW fight in years. Both are brutally aggressive and can shut each other's lights off ant any given moment...

_...When JDS landed that sick uppercut on Werdum...lol! Rogan " Ohhhhhh....Mannnnn...He leaned right into it. Look at his ears wiggle..._


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## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> lol CC I am fine my friend
> But CC do you really rank Brocks standup higher then Cains??


Probably from sheer power alone. Kongo was able to drop Cain twice in the fight, and IMO Lesnar has a lot more power behind his punches than Kongo does. Cain gets hit with something like Herring or Couture were hit with, it is going to be lights out.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> lol CC I am fine my friend
> 
> I mean Cain is probably the only fighter in the HW devision, who could actually get back up to his feet or doesn't even have to touch the map in a fight with Brock. Even though, I believe that Brock would take him down at least 1 or 2 times. But CC do you really rank Brocks standup higher then Cains??
> 
> ...


 
I see your points but i def have Mir's striking above Cains and Brock's, its very technical, however I do also believe that Brock's power in his punches is alot more than Cains as well so.....i got Mir 1st LesNAR 2nd and Cain 3rd.......


People need to realize Cain still has alot to prove and thats why he is making statements like such....


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

coldcall420 said:


> People need to realize Cain still has alot to prove and thats why he is making statements like such....


Eh...I think people need to realize the entire HW division has a lot to prove in terms of where their skills are at.

Mir needs to prove he can handle the size and strength of Brock.

Nog needs to prove his chin hasn't left him.

Brock needs to prove he isn't a one trick poney, and also that he is fully recovered.

Cain needs to prove he can handle the really big HWs.

Carwin needs a legit win over someone in the top 5 (gonzaga is his only one).


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Ape City said:


> Eh...I think people need to realize the entire HW division has a lot to prove in terms of where their skills are at.
> 
> Mir needs to prove he can handle the size and strength of Brock.
> 
> ...


Quoted for absolute truth.


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## Mikey Blaze (Mar 7, 2010)

In the not so exact words of Anderson Silva, "Heavyweights have heavyweight problems, and your problems lessen the further you go down in weight."

I'm sorry to the Brock Lesnar fans, but I don't think he deserves the title. He's only a big threat because he's a big guy. Have you ever seen a fight where he doesn't have at least 25 pounds on his opponent? He's a big guy, congratulations. He's also slow and only capitalizes on his wrestling and heavy hands. I realize he only had 4 fights in the UFC before he got ill, but I was never impressed with any of his fights.

Now let's take a look at Cain Velasquez: here we have a young heavyweight with tremendous speed and cardio for his size. Sure, he hasn't had fights against credible strikers yet, but you can see all the talent Cain has from watching his fights. He's intense, he's accurate, he never slows down, and he's hard to take down. How much more can you ask for?

I'm not a hardcore Cain Velasquez fan, but I do admire his talent and athleticism, especially in the heavyweight division. I'd love to see this fight to see Cain as the underdog, hopefully winning and taking the belt from Brock.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

kongo?^


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## Mikey Blaze (Mar 7, 2010)

Alright, Cheick Kongo
Point still remains


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## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

Mikey Blaze said:


> I'm sorry to the Brock Lesnar fans, but I don't think he deserves the title. He's only a big threat because he's a big guy. Have you ever seen a fight where he doesn't have at least 25 pounds on his opponent? He's a big guy, congratulations. He's also slow and only capitalizes on his wrestling and heavy hands. I realize he only had 4 fights in the UFC before he got ill, but I was never impressed with any of his fights.


Thats not Brocks fault, theres nothing stopping other guys his size coming into the UFC. Yes it is a advantage but its not the only reason he wins, otherwise there would be a bunch of guys his size in the UFC dominating the division. 
Compared to most heavyweights he is not slow. 
Chuck Liddel almost only capatilized on his heavy hands and take down defense. Anderson Silva only capatilizes on his striking and submissions (and hes submissions are only used when someone takes him down, very uncommon for him to go for the take down). lots of guys basically only use two things, its what their good at and theres no reason to fix something thats not broken. Carwin, Cain, and JDS also basically use just 2 things, sure they got more but 2 works.


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## Mikey Blaze (Mar 7, 2010)

I can only hope that what you said is true. I'd love to see a good fight between Cain and Brock, but I personally don't see the hype behind Brock.


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