# Shields Wants GSP; Back In The Autumn



## [email protected] (Mar 23, 2009)

We caught up with Jake Shields after he'd had a chance for some down time following the Robbie Lawler fight. Amongst other things, we talked about the UFC, GSP, His upbringing and his prospects.



> Would you consider, or have you been approached by, the UFC as it no doubt hosts the rest of the world's top 170lbers?
> 
> Yes, I was in talks with them after EliteXC folded but I needed to be free of my contract. We had an attorney working on that and it would have taken some time. So, when Strikeforce came in they promised me good opponents and so far it's working out.
> 
> ...


Check out the whole thing here:

http://www.mmaunltd.com/feature-detail.asp/NewsID/444/shields-dream-opponent-is-gsp.htm

Including a badass picture of Jake up a mountain aged six!


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

I'm so sick of hearing Jake Shields call out GSP. It's really annoying.


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

This is getting a little old. I don't blame Shields for wanting to fight GSP, guys always want to fight the best fighters, but please. We all know that you would have about the same chance of beating GSP that 95% of the division has, a lucky punch. 

It would be a war all right, the Six-day War between Isreal and Egypt. (Hint for you Mr. Sheilds, you are not Isreal in this analogy)


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## Evil Ira (Feb 9, 2009)

We'll just see what happens in the St-Pierre vs Alves fight. I think St-Pierre should win, but I can't say I'm definate since the first St-Pierre vs Serra fight. Great magazine by the way, very informative and interesting.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

jake Shields needs to shut up and just keep winning and geting better...GSP would dominate him.....:thumbsup:


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Shields VS GSP*

Well for the moment we will not know what would happen with a Shields versus GSP match, but it would be a war and not the Israel Six Day War!


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

If Shields wants to fight GSP so badly, why does he repeatedly sign with organizations where GSP _isn't_?
What, is he holding out hope GSP will go to Strikeforce or something?


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Shields is quite a few notchs better on the ground then any UFC welterweight, GSP included. GSP takes it with ease standing up, Shields takes it with ease on the ground. I would love to see this fight. As far as not signing with the Ufc, i think Strikeforce just made a better deal when Shields was a free agent.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Believe me Jake Shields may think he wants GSP but he doesnt, he would get destroyed, and josjua if you think Shields is better than any UFC WW on the ground your delusional, GSP would take him down and beat him like a red headed step child, Shields isnt anywere near GSP's level or the last guy with a great ground game he destroyed in BJ Penn's. Id love to see Shields in the UFC to fight guys like Hughes, Kos and Fitch but he isnt ready for GSP and I dont think he ever will be.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

You should see how GSP did in ADCC, then compare that with shields. Also, GSP has four wins by sub in MMA. BJ has five and isnt really a welterweight. Shields has ten. The numbers dont lie.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Can't complain*

Certainly can't argue with those numbers!


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I don't see where he "called" GSP out?

He was asked a question about his thoughts on GSP, so he said it would be a war, a great fight.

It's not as if he randomly said "I want GSP!". He answers the questions he is asked.

As far as the fight goes, GSP takes it. Shields is a good fighter, pretty underrated, IMO, but he is not ready for GSP, in fact, he might never be.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

joshua7789 said:


> You should see how GSP did in ADCC, then compare that with shields. Also, GSP has four wins by sub in MMA. BJ has five and isnt really a welterweight. Shields has ten. The numbers dont lie.


Winning more fights by submission doesnt mean you have a better ground game, Jeremy Horn has 49 wins by submission, Demian Maia has 8, does that mean Horn has a better ground game? Rousimar Palhares has 6 and when he fought Horn it was clear who had the better ground game. Bottom line is your logic is clearly flawed. Im certain GSP could hold his own in ADCC but that doesnt mean anything either as his top control and GnP (also part of the ground game) are so far ahead of Shield is ridiculous. Id also like to point out BJ may not be a WW but he is a World Jiu-Jitsu Champion and he did it in 3 years of training that is insane.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*True*

Can't argue with you on that one!


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

The hilarious thing about this entire thread is Jake Shields didn't call out anybody. But everyone is acting like he did.

What the hell is he supposed to say when asked......"oh hell no, I don't want to fight"

The Sheilds hate on this forum over the last year is a joke. He was simply answering questions.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Winning more fights by submission doesnt mean you have a better ground game, Jeremy Horn has 49 wins by submission, Demian Maia has 8, does that mean Horn has a better ground game? Rousimar Palhares has 6 and when he fought Horn it was clear who had the better ground game. Bottom line is your logic is clearly flawed. Im certain GSP could hold his own in ADCC but that doesnt mean anything either as his top control and GnP (also part of the ground game) are so far ahead of Shield is ridiculous. Id also like to point out BJ may not be a WW but he is a World Jiu-Jitsu Champion and he did it in 3 years of training that is insane.



Comparing Jeremy Horn and Maia doesnt go well because they are nowhere near being in the same ball park when it comes to the number of fights. Shields, GSP and BJ are all within ten fights of each other, much more realistic comparison. GSP didnt hold his own in ADCC, Leo Santos pwned him (Shields went on to beat Santos). I dont think GSP would have nearly as much success with his ground and pound on Shields. We are talking about a guy with great wrestling and a great sub game who probably is very similar to GSP when it comes to strength. This is one of those things that is all pretty much up to the observer until they actually do fight. I really hope this happens someday. I would still bet on GSP to win, but thats because he wouldnt be in any hurry to go to the ground.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

No see my issue is your using faulty logic, your arguements are all based on who is the better pure grappler which Shield may be but in MMA GSP's vastly supperior wrestling and better all around top game are on a completly diffrent level than Shields. I will admit though to not being familiar with GSP in ADCC. Your also assuming because GSP has less submission wins that he has a worse ground game but the truth is GSP just has a more well rounded game that offers him more ways to finish the fight, Shields is a solid WW and a great fighter but GSP is simply on a whole diffrent level.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

No faulty logic in my arguements. Just facts. GSp probably does have better wrestling, but he hasnt faced anyone with the proven mma ground game that shields has. BJ is a very decorated jiu jitsu practitioner, but his bread and butter in mma isnt his ground game,its his boxing. If you think thats wrong, then watch his fights. Koschek, Fitch, and Hughes are all great wrestlers, but in mma or grappling, non of them have anything on Shield's ground game. This is a guy who beat Yushin Okami, one of the strongest middleweights out there (the fight was at 175), He would be more then able to deal with GSP's strength and control on the ground.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

again though, your faulting BJ because he has a great boxing, that doest mean his BJJ is any less amazing BJ has a sick guard but he doesnt use his BJJ as often because he doesnt have to same reason GSP doesnt have as many submission wins. I realize Shields is a good fighter and you dont have to quote his resume to me to make me see that but there is no shame in not beign on St. Pierre's level few in the sport are. GSP's control on the ground is possibly the best in the sport and despite Okami's being good it is a far cry from GSP's.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Toxic said:


> , and josjua if you think Shields is better than any UFC WW on the ground your delusional, .


Sheilds is better than damn near every UFC WW on the ground.



joshua7789 said:


> . GSP didnt hold his own in ADCC, Leo Santos pwned him (Shields went on to beat Santos). I dont think GSP would have nearly as much success with his ground and pound on Shields. .



GSP is a different fighter now.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

GSP has a better overal ground game than Shields, he has better wrestling, better control from the top, very strong and explosive. Shields might have better pure grappling, but B.J also has better pure grappling than GSP. B.J uses his boxing a lot, yes, but that is because he is really good at it. Why go to your ground game if you can win standing? B.J's guard control is awesome, it's on a really, really high level, and GSP absolutely tore through his guard like a monster.

Shields is a good fighter, but ready for the beast that is GSP? I don't think so.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Michael Carson said:


> Shields is a good fighter, but ready for the beast that is GSP? I don't think so.



I heard the same arguments with Sakurai and Yushin Okami in regards to Shields as far as all around skillset was concerned. No problem here.

On the ground I'm not saying that Jake would win this fight but I guarantee that he'd give St. Pierre fits. GSP would have to use his TDD and striking to try and win this one.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I gotta disagree with you J.P. I believe GSP could take Shields down and control him, pass his guard and obliterate him with strikes or knees. GSP absolutly dominated Penn and Serra on the ground, didnt just control them and win but absolutly destroyed them, I think to believe he couldnt control Shields is ludicrous.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Toxic said:


> I gotta disagree with you J.P. I believe GSP could take Shields down and control him, pass his guard and obliterate him with strikes or knees. GSP absolutly dominated Penn and Serra on the ground, didnt just control them and win but absolutly destroyed them, I think to believe he couldnt control Shields is ludicrous.



BJ is too small. He is also a BJJ fighter.

Shields is much bigger than BJ and he not only has BJJ but grappling as well, his grappling skills are world class and could possibly negate another great grapplers skills.

As far as BJ is concerned, size matters. So it's hard to fit him into this equation.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

J.P. said:


> I heard the same arguments with Sakurai and Yushin Okami in regards to Shields as far as all around skillset was concerned. No problem here.
> 
> On the ground I'm not saying that Jake would win this fight but I guarantee that he'd give St. Pierre fits. GSP would have to use his TDD and striking to try and win this one.


As far as overal skill, I never said anything bad about Shields. Hell, I believe he can even be put in that "underrated" category at WW. 

However, on the ground, with GSP, I see him being controlled. GSP made B.J look like a child, he passed his guard effortlessly. Shields is good on the ground, I see him giving fits to many guys at WW, but GSP's ground control is on another level, far beyond anyone else at WW, I'd even say far beyond most at all other weights as well.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Michael Carson said:


> As far as overal skill, I never said anything bad about Shields. Hell, I believe he can even be put in that "underrated" category at WW.
> 
> However, on the ground, with GSP, I see him being controlled. GSP made B.J look like a child, he passed his guard effortlessly. Shields is good on the ground, I see him giving fits to many guys at WW, but GSP's ground control is on another level, far beyond anyone else at WW, I'd even say far beyond most at all other weights as well.



I'll remain at a stalemate here because I'm not sold on either of these guys defeating the other. I'm a Shields fan, but I'm not going to say at this point that he'd go out and defeat GSP.

At the same time if GSP was to beat Shields I don't see it being on the ground. Shields is extremly strong and technical in the ground game.

Non MMA victories in ground fights over Fitch, Diego Sanchez, and Vinny Magalhaes have proven this. As well as MMA victories over extremley high ranked fighters. Shields and GSP are in the same catagory on the ground IMO. GSP having the slight standing edge at this point. Though not by much other than his superman punch.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

J.P. said:


> I'll remain at a stalemate here because I'm not sold on either of these guys defeating the other. I'm a Shields fan, but I'm not going to say at this point that he'd go out and defeat GSP.
> 
> At the same time if GSP was to beat Shields I don't see it being on the ground. Shields is extremly strong and technical in the ground game.
> 
> Non MMA victories in ground fights over Fitch, Diego Sanchez, and Vinny Magalhaes have proven this. As well as MMA victories over extremley high ranked fighters. Shields and GSP are in the same catagory on the ground IMO. GSP having the slight standing edge at this point. Though not by much other than his superman punch.


The non-MMA fights with guys like Fitch are much different than MMA grappling, so I'm not sure why you would bring those up? I stated that Shields pure grappling is better than most guys at WW, probably even better than GSP as well.

However, in MMA, it's much different having someone who is so explosive and strong, punch you, knee you, grind on you, than having to just worry about submissions. GSP's ground and pound is lethal, he put put Penn away with pure strikes and ground and pound, Penn didn't even know where he was going into the third. No one has ever done that to Penn, as he has an amazing ground game, an amazing guard, and GSP crushed him, absolutely crushed him. In a pure grappling match, that fight wouldn't have gone the same way. I mean, if Penn wasing getting destroyed from strikes, there is a good chance he would have been able to catch GSP in a submission. 

I understand Penn is a natural LW and not a WW, but Penn isn't a small WW, he average, it's GSP who is a huge WW.

Anyways, I like Shields, and I think he would do well against most at WW, I even think he would do "well" against GSP, but I don't see him winning the fight once GSP takes him down.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Michael Carson said:


> The non-MMA fights with guys like Fitch are much different than MMA grappling, so I'm not sure why you would bring those up? I stated that Shields pure grappling is better than most guys at WW, probably even better than GSP as well.
> 
> However, in MMA, it's much different having someone who is so explosive and strong, punch you, knee you, grind on you, than having to just worry about submissions. GSP's ground and pound is lethal, he put put Penn away with pure strikes and ground and pound, Penn didn't even know where he was going into the third. No one has ever done that to Penn, as he has an amazing ground game, an amazing guard, and GSP crushed him, absolutely crushed him. In a pure grappling match, that fight wouldn't have gone the same way. I mean, if Penn wasing getting destroyed from strikes, there is a good chance he would have been able to catch GSP in a submission.
> 
> ...



As I've said, I'll remain in a stalemate in the who would win argument with you.

BJ sucks at WW regardless. Look at his WW record. It isn't even above .500 So that is a moot point. 

As far as GSP grinding on Shields. It's possible. But during that grind a submission by Shields is even more possible. If GSP wins this fight, it would be striking.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

J.P. said:


> As I've said, I'll remain in a stalemate in the who would win argument with you.
> 
> BJ sucks at WW regardless. Look at his WW record. It isn't even above .500 So that is a moot point.
> 
> As far as GSP grinding on Shields. It's possible. But during that grind a submission by Shields is even more possible. If GSP wins this fight, it would be striking.


I won't disagree that a submission is definitely possible by Shields from the bottom, I just don't see it happening.

Also, B.J's BJJ and ground game doesn't suck at any weight, he is a top level grappler. He may gas out more at WW, but his skills are the same.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Michael Carson said:


> I won't disagree that a submission is definitely possible by Shields from the bottom, I just don't see it happening.
> 
> Also, B.J's BJJ and ground game doesn't suck at any weight, he is a top level grappler. He may gas out more at WW, but his skills are the same.



His MMA record at WW says differently.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I don't think choking out Hughes in the first round, almost choking him out again before gassing/getting injured in the second fight, and losing to GSP(the person we are talking about in this discussion), shows his ground game isn't good at WW?


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

The thing with BJ at WW doesnt have a whole lot to do with skill, its size and strength. His cardio doesnt matter at WW because he is to small and the guys that are huge for that weight class can all pretty much wear him out if they can make it out of the first round with him. This would not be a problem with Shields. He is very strong and well conditioned. Please make this fight happen powers that be. Even if GSP gets beaten by Alves, id still like to see this fight.


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

Sheilds VS. The UFC... IMO

Loses to Koscheck, via decision
Loses to Fitch, via decision
Defeats Swick, via submission
Defeats Hughes, via submission
Gets decapitated by Alves, via headkick
Gets mauled by GSP, ala BJ Penn beating

All and all, I think Sheilds is very overrated. I personally think Strikeforce is a great organization, and really fun to watch. But I would equate it to the UFC's minor leagues.

I think Chris Leben, or Drew McFedries could go over to Strikeforce and beat Lawler or Cung Le. I think Brock or Frank would destroy Alistair, and BJ would have no trouble putting away Melendez or Thompson.

Again, I like Strikeforce, but with very few exception, their talent roster is way below that of the UFC's mid talent, and the elite of course... and Sheilds is no exception.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Ufc*

Well we'll never have a UFC versus Strikeforce card because Dana is a jerk and isn't willing to copromote an event with anyone!


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> Well we'll never have a UFC versus Strikeforce card because Dana is a jerk and isn't willing to copromote an event with anyone!


Dana White is a jerk for refusing to promote a rival organization?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Yes, dont you know Dana is a complete ass for not wanting to give free publicity to other companies so that everyone can share the money and glory that all his hard work has earned. I mean if you worked for years to build a company you would want to give your competition a piece of the pie wouldnt you?


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## Randomus (Apr 30, 2009)

I don't think many of you realize that Shields and a few of the other Cesar Gracie camp have trained with Fitch and Koscheck. Those of you thinking he'd have no chance against either guy don't realize that he'd hold his own much more than some critics realize.

As a random aside...

Well, the UFC, even though Dana sometimes does business like he's drunk, needs to make exceptions. Allowing M-1 to have a hand in promoting Fedor in the UFC needs to happen, but won't happen and all of it is because of those "crazy" Russians.

The UFC makes a lot of stupid business decisions that hurt MMA fans, but it's only the hardcore fans that either A) know about how it hurts MMA, or B) understand that we're going to get screwed.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Yes, dont you know Dana is a complete ass for not wanting to give free publicity to other companies so that everyone can share the money and glory that all his hard work has earned. I mean if you worked for years to build a company you would want to give your competition a piece of the pie wouldnt you?


The UFC - United Fighter Charity - is a charity, I thought you knew that?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

People act like it, they dont seem to realize how epically stupid from a buisiness perspective it would be for the UFC to cross promote with M-1, Strikeforce or Affliction.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Toxic said:


> People act like it, they dont seem to realize how epically stupid from a buisiness perspective it would be for the UFC to cross promote with M-1, Strikeforce or Affliction.


 
Im not even being a dick toxic but alot of people on this forum age wise are immature in terms of business and how it really gets done.....

They only consider the match-ups not all the money flying around in the backgroud......

You a Business major too????:confused02:


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Randomus said:


> I don't think many of you realize that Shields and a few of the other Cesar Gracie camp have trained with Fitch and Koscheck. Those of you thinking he'd have no chance against either guy don't realize that he'd hold his own much more than some critics realize.
> 
> As a random aside...
> 
> ...


 
What happens to Dana's great UFC and it being "The Ultimate Proving ground" and on that ground Dana let the crazy Russians as you say who have been willing to negotiate bring in their TOP guy in Fedor and he proves that M-1's fighter was proven best in the Ultimate Proving ground?????

What happens is the UFC becomes a venue not the leader of the pack....dana would much rather never have fedor, than cross promote and while doing so have his fighter lose......

he learned that lesson when he took Chuck over to Pride and rampage whipped him then Pride woldnt continue to own up to their end of the contract.....

Think...remember the game Monopoly????


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

UFC's brief cross-promotion with Pride was relatively low-risk, especially in 2003, as UFC was primarily a North American entity and Pride a Japanese one. 
Strikeforce and Affliction, however, are in UFC's backyard. And while the folks who run those organizations talk a lot about how great WAMMA is, how multiple promotions are good for the sport and how cross-promotion would be better for the fans, I'm sure they would like nothing better than to be in the position UFC is. 
If the shoe was on the other foot, do you think Atencio or Coker would be to give Dana White a rub? My guess is not very.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

I havent had time to read any replies to this thread but just hearing Shields wants GSP made me laugh. What he gonna do? submit him?:confused02: I think BJ needs to fight shields even at LW for BJ and WW for shields , I think Bj would take him. LOl I know that wont ever happen but id like to see it.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*PRIDE/UFC Copromotion*



vandalian said:


> UFC's brief cross-promotion with Pride was relatively low-risk, especially in 2003, as UFC was primarily a North American entity and Pride a Japanese one.
> Strikeforce and Affliction, however, are in UFC's backyard. And while the folks who run those organizations talk a lot about how great WAMMA is, how multiple promotions are good for the sport and how cross-promotion would be better for the fans, I'm sure they would like nothing better than to be in the position UFC is.
> If the shoe was on the other foot, do you think Atencio or Coker would be to give Dana White a rub? My guess is not very.


I really wouldn't call that copromotion. PRIDE was at that times hands down the largest MMA promotion in the world. UFC sent their fighters to represent the promotion and I don't think PRIDE had a problem with it. Guys like Rulon Gardner fought only once in the promotion and that was all the MMA experience they got so I really don't see that as a copromotion!


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Toxic said:


> I gotta disagree with you J.P. I believe GSP could take Shields down and control him, pass his guard and obliterate him with strikes or knees. GSP absolutly dominated Penn and Serra on the ground, didnt just control them and win but absolutly destroyed them, I think to believe he couldnt control Shields is ludicrous.


I think your completely right, id make a big wager with real money thats the way this fight would play out.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*GSP VS Fitch and Kosh*

Well that maybe true but GSP had problems against Fitch and Kosh. He didn't finish them even though he controlled the entire match. If Shields were like that than as long as he wasn't finished he could possibly submit GSP!


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> I really wouldn't call that copromotion. PRIDE was at that times hands down the largest MMA promotion in the world. UFC sent their fighters to represent the promotion and I don't think PRIDE had a problem with it. Guys like Rulon Gardner fought only once in the promotion and that was all the MMA experience they got so I really don't see that as a copromotion!


True, Liddell and Ricco in UFC wasn't cross-promotion in the sense as the Pride-K1 stuff , for example. Which only furthers my point that the whole deal was a low-risk venture for UFC.

Allowing UFC fighters to take on Strikeforce fighters -- on American soil, no less -- would do very little to elevate UFC and very much to elevate Strikeforce. It would be foolish.



kantowrestler said:


> Well that maybe true but GSP had problems against Fitch and Kosh. He didn't finish them even though he controlled the entire match. If Shields were like that than as long as he wasn't finished he could possibly submit GSP!


Well, if you call those problems, I guess Couture had problems with Sylvia and Fedor had problems with Nogueira.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

*sigh* I have to stop dreaming about all the awesome cross-promotion matches that could happen and probably never will.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

kantowrestler said:


> Well that maybe true but GSP had problems against Fitch and Kosh. He didn't finish them even though he controlled the entire match. If Shields were like that than as long as he wasn't finished he could possibly submit GSP!


There is always a possiblilty that Shield _could_ submit GSP, its ludicrous to think that its impossible but its highly unlikely IMO.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Unlikely*

Well I have to agree that Shields submitting GSP is unlikely but its possible just the same!


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## Randomus (Apr 30, 2009)

In a pure grappling match, I'm still very much convinced Shields would be able to sub him. In an MMA fight, however, it's much harder to say.

The person who beats GSP (and doesn't get a flash KO) will be the guy who can grind him down and make him mentally break. I think GSP mentally is still quite weak, but B.J. was unable to capitalize on that.

I'd rather see Shields and GSP over GSP moving up weight and getting completely dismantled against a faster, better Anderson Silva.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*GSP Superfight*

And that proves Dana's point that you need to clean out a division before moving up in weight. At the time BJ fought GSP BJ had fought the two best guys in the weight division and a new contender arose in KenFlo! GSP still has a few guys to fight before he has cleaned out the welterweight division in UFC!


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Randomus said:


> In a pure grappling match, I'm still very much convinced Shields would be able to sub him. In an MMA fight, however, it's much harder to say.
> 
> Maybe he could sub him in a Gi in a pure grappling match. I cant even imagine how bad GSP would beat the crap out of shields in an mma match. Dont forget were talking strikeforce where the UFC sends its losers. GSP is fighting Alves whos next for Shields Joe Riggs?


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*UFC Losers?*

Excuse me! I WOULD NOT CALL STRIKEFORCE UFC LOSERS TERRITORY! Strikeforce picks up UFC cutteys and stray EliteXC fighters, they aren't sent UFC losers!


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> Excuse me! I WOULD NOT CALL STRIKEFORCE UFC LOSERS TERRITORY! Strikeforce picks up UFC cutteys and stray EliteXC fighters, they aren't sent UFC losers!


I didnt mean losers with an L on their forehead, imeant people who were not winning in the ufc (losers), I purchased showtime just to watch events and I like most of their fighters its just a grade down in comp. Clearly you see that. When Cung Lee is a world Champion and it by beating Frank Shamrock and robbie lawler and Scott smith are ranked right up there at the top you have to see it for what it is. Great fights but not by the best of the best. Nick Diaz rules thats the main reason I purchased it.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Fine!*

Well I guess I can't argue with you there. However, they arguably have the best women's division in the world with both EliteXC and Smackgirl shut down!


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

jcal said:


> I didnt mean losers with an L on their forehead, imeant people who were not winning in the ufc (losers), I purchased showtime just to watch events and I like most of their fighters its just a grade down in comp. Clearly you see that. When Cung Lee is a world Champion and it by beating Frank Shamrock and robbie lawler and Scott smith are ranked right up there at the top you have to see it for what it is. Great fights but not by the best of the best. Nick Diaz rules thats the main reason I purchased it.


If you take a look at the roster this really is not an accurate comment. There are fighters on the roster who refuse to go to the UFC at this moment in their carreer.

Also alot of fighters from Strikeforce have never fought in the UFC and Dana would love to have them.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

J.P. said:


> If you take a look at the roster this really is not an accurate comment. There are fighters on the roster who refuse to go to the UFC at this moment in their carreer.
> 
> Also alot of fighters from Strikeforce have never fought in the UFC and Dana would love to have them.


I dont see too many maybe gilbert melendez and allistar overeem, idont think they want paul buenetello back but I would, maybe Brett rogers in a couple more fights, pretty piss poor roster if you try to compare it to the UFC correct? discuss


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Stikeforce has a the best roster after the UFC. That being said, they arent anywhere close when it comes to talent from top to bottom. Strikforce and Affliction are both very top heavy. They have some good fighters at the top, after that they dont have anything. Dont get me wrong, I love strikefore.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

joshua7789 said:


> Stikeforce has a the best roster after the UFC. That being said, they arent anywhere close when it comes to talent from top to bottom. Strikforce and Affliction are both very top heavy. They have some good fighters at the top, after that they dont have anything. Dont get me wrong, I love strikefore.



I dig strikeforce too, I dont care whos rated what sometimes like the ufc cause styles make fights and ive seen some pretty entertaining fights in SF as to where ive seen a whole card in the ufc and it sucked. I think 1 time cant remember which card but every fight was a bore. Silva- Leites comes to mind. No comparison to a Nick Diaz-scott smith fight. And they do have the best womans division. And I like jake shields, would watch him fight anytime I could, I just dont think some people realize how strong GSP ground control is and hes got good submission too, imo hes in a completely different league than shields. Shields would be on his back in the middle of a nightmare the whole fight id bet.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Hypothetical*

Of course this is a completely hypothetical situation as Shields is pretty happy in Strikeforce and GSP is pretty happy in the UFC. However, the fact Dana White and Scott Coker respect each other despite being in a business cold war might mean a co-promotion event for the first time in UFC history. We'll just have to wait and see!


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

jcal said:


> I dont see too many maybe gilbert melendez and allistar overeem, idont think they want paul buenetello back but I would, maybe Brett rogers in a couple more fights, pretty piss poor roster if you try to compare it to the UFC correct? discuss



Strikeforces LW division can definatly challenge the UFCs.

With fighters like Josh "The Punk" Thompson, Ishida, Gilbert Melendez, Jorge Masvidal, Duane "Bang" Ludwig, Yves Edwards, and K.J.s apparent return, you also have to take under consideration guys like Fabricio Camoes, Conner "Hurricane" Huen, and Jorge Gurgel.

Not to mention that Eddie Alvarez stills owes fights on his Pro-Elite contract so I can def see him fighting under the banner this year.

The MW div is stacked as hell as well, Cung Le, Benji Radach, Jake Shields, Robbie Lawler, Scott Smith, Joey Villasenor, Misaki, Tim Kennedy, and Andre Galvao. There is alot of talent here. Take away Anderson Silva and this division would rival the UFCs.

LHW is thin so I have no arguments there.

HW is getting stronger. Hopefully they can get Herman signed.

But Lavar "Big" Johnson is an absolute beast. Alistair Overeem and Fabricio Werdum are capable of dismantling damn near any HW in the world and the two of them would terrorize the HW division in the UFC. Brett Rogers is a heavy handed fighter. He's 10 and 0 all stoppages. People call him overrated but you know what? He's mopping fighters up in the cage and KO victories speak for themselves. Also Abongo Humphry is very aggressive and chin strong. He has alot of potential he stays in the pocket when he needs to, uses great lateral movement, and cuts angles perfectly. He's gonna make a great contender.

Last but not least is Paul "The Headhunter" Buentello. This guy has to be the most underrated MMA HW in the game. He went 3-1 in the UFC. He's 6-1 in his last seven including the dismantling Kiril Sidelnikov at Affliction. Buentello was the underdog in that fight and absolutly dominated him. I think Pauls HW striking game is the most underrated out there.

The WW division in Strikeforce is in desperate need of fighters. Nick Thompson, Nick Diaz, Joe Riggs, Phil Baroni, Luke Stewart and Eric Bradley can't get it done. I see Nick Diaz dominating this division. With Nick Thompson being the guy who kicks everybodys ass except the title holder. The UFCs WW division is 10Xs better then Strikeforces. 

All in all for the budget, the acquisitons, the time it's been around, and it's momentum I'll give Strikeforce 2 years. And I think they'll start being mentioned as the best in the game. You have to rememeber Scott Coker loves super fights and cross promos with DREAM and Affliction and the fans love this. Strikeforce is going to slowley acquire more fighters and make alot of money with their events.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Division Comparisons*

I have to agree that the lightweight division in Strikeforce can definately compete with the UFC equivalent. Welterweight division considering that its outside the UFC is pretty talented cause the UFC welterweight division is the deepest in the weightclass. I also agree that the middleweight division is also competitive with the UFC and yes the lightheavyweight divion is light cause once again the UFC equivalent is the deepest in the weightclass. Heavyweight is growing and yes the up and coming fighters and copromotions will make Strikeforce better and better as the years go on!


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

J.P. said:


> Strikeforces LW division can definatly challenge the UFCs.
> 
> With fighters like Josh "The Punk" Thompson, Ishida, Gilbert Melendez, Jorge Masvidal, Duane "Bang" Ludwig, Yves Edwards, and K.J.s apparent return, you also have to take under consideration guys like Fabricio Camoes, Conner "Hurricane" Huen, and Jorge Gurgel.
> 
> ...


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

jcal said:


> J.P. said:
> 
> 
> > The MW div is stacked as hell as well, Cung Le, Benji Radach, Jake Shields, Robbie Lawler, Scott Smith, Joey Villasenor, Misaki, Tim Kennedy, and Andre Galvao. There is alot of talent here. Take away Anderson Silva and this division would rival the UFCs.
> ...


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Updated Rankings*

There are no middleweights in this ranking. Is this the updated rankings or is this your personal rankings?


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

J.P. said:


> jcal said:
> 
> 
> > I recall saying "take away Anderson Silva"
> ...


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Maia better than Silva*

I personally think that Maia is probably the best MMA fighter I've seen with a jui-jutsu background! He submitted Sonnen like a street thug! It's my belief that the guy could submit Silva if the two were to fight and Anderson would find himself in a tough spot!


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> I personally think that Maia is probably the best MMA fighter I've seen with a jui-jutsu background! He submitted Sonnen like a street thug! It's my belief that the guy could submit Silva if the two were to fight and Anderson would find himself in a tough spot!


Yes but maia would be in a tough spot as well while the fight is standing, id still take Silva cause hes got more tools.But im a anderson fan and until he messes up I think hes the best and the best to watch barring the leites fight, you cant blame him for the Cote fight he didnt fall apart Cote did.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Anderson's last few matches*

Well a good fighter doesn't put on boring matches and still maintain being the best pound for pound fighter in the world! If Silva were the best in the world he would've torn apart both Cote and Leites, not been boring the way he was! That is why up until the Sylvia fight everyone was saying Fedor wasn't the fighter he used to be cause he had a bunch of one-sided or lackluster fights, so his win just gave everyone confidence in him!


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> Well a good fighter doesn't put on boring matches and still maintain being the best pound for pound fighter in the world! If Silva were the best in the world he would've torn apart both Cote and Leites, not been boring the way he was! That is why up until the Sylvia fight everyone was saying Fedor wasn't the fighter he used to be cause he had a bunch of one-sided or lackluster fights, so his win just gave everyone confidence in him!


So your saying A silva is not a good fighter cause he had a boring match with leites ? How about Leites is a boring fighter cause he wouldnt engage a.silva and just fall down and lay there, doesnt that make more sense?:sarcastic12:


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

jcal said:


> I disagree, I think maias jitz on a whole different level than shields or his teachers or anybody he trains with, just my opinion, If Marquart went over there and got a title fight I think strikeforce would have a new champion, I think hendo would beat shields and what about wandy, whos gonna beat him Radach? cmon! shonen would take lawler down easily and control him on the ground imo thats what I think and Im sticking to it:thumbsup:


I got love for Wandy. Don't get me wrong. But with the way he's been performing he would have trouble with big hitters like Benji Radach and Robbie Lawler.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Wandy VS Radjichor Lawler*

Actually I think Wandy would destroy either of those two were they to fight him!


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