# Bruce Lee in MMA



## thebroken (Jul 11, 2006)

how would he fare with MMA fighters? do you think that his JEET KUN DO or GUNG FU would stand against other styles?


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## jaymackz (Sep 24, 2006)

Why even bother answering this.


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## Fighter J (Oct 15, 2006)

thebroken said:


> how would he fare with MMA fighters? do you think that his JEET KUN DO or GUNG FU would stand against other styles?


YES definatly if he trained for it but what weight class would he have been in?


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

Fighter J said:


> YES definatly but what weight class would he have been in?


Most likely Lightweight or Welter Weight (sp) because I Think he was about 170


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## jaymackz (Sep 24, 2006)

........


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Bruce Lee is an actor. A guy who wowed people on screen, had Martial Arts knowledge, and taught his hollywood friends. I've seen this debate before, and it's just tiring. Bruce Lee is a bigger myth than Rickson Gracie, because atleast Gracie fought in MMA. Yea, Lee was around way before MMA, but he was an ACTOR, people. Beating up street fighters and other strikers doesn't equal MMA greatness.


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## jaymackz (Sep 24, 2006)

........


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## thebroken (Jul 11, 2006)

ignorant? ouch.. harsh! lol and i was just getting people's opinion.. anyways, yeah he would've been a lightweight.. i watched this video where he was kind of like teaching this celebrity what to do if you're pinned down, so i guess he knew about ground fighting..


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## jaymackz (Sep 24, 2006)

........


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## Borat Sagdiyev (Sep 19, 2006)

Bruce was one of the best Martial Artists ever, and if he had time to train..I'm sure that he would be a force to be reckoned with. He had EXCELLENT conditioning, a rock hard body and was a master of hand to hand combat. If he practiced BJJ for a few years, he'd be a superb MMA fighter.

According to wikipedia, "Bruce Lee's evaluation of traditional martial arts doctrines is nowadays seen as one of the first steps into popularising the modern style of mixed martial arts."
In 2004, Dana White even credited Bruce Lee as the "father of mixed martial arts"
How could the father of MMA *not* be good at it?


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## MMA1990 (Aug 1, 2006)

thebroken said:


> how would he fare with MMA fighters? do you think that his JEET KUN DO or GUNG FU would stand against other styles?


No he would not do good he was submitted many times when he was alive. He admmitted that his style was greatly flaued the fact he had little ground game would greatly hurt him. JKD is more suitable for streetfighting than MMA and Gung fu wouldnt do anything for him either.


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## Black Guy (Oct 16, 2006)

MMA1990 said:


> No he would not do good he was submitted many times when he was alive. He admmitted that his style was greatly flaued the fact he had little ground game would greatly hurt him. JKD is more suitable for streetfighting than MMA and Gung fu wouldnt do anything for him either.


But if he had proper MMA training like the fighters of today, with BJJ included. He could probably be champion material.


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## gabester76 (Oct 16, 2006)

leave well enough alone. He is in a shelf of his own. I would not even consider him in MMA. That is like watching Michael Jordan play on the Globetrotters. :thumbsdown:


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## Ratibor (Oct 21, 2006)

*Bruce Lee is sick*

Man if you think that Bruce Lee was just an actor than you must be an idiot. Maybe Bruce was light but it didnt matter cuz he had the strongest and most acurate punch in the world. I think that Bruce Lee would beat anyone in UFC or Pride FC except Rickson Gracie. Becouse Rickson has the best ground techniques in MMA so when he takes Bruce Lee down its all over.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

*he had the strongest and most acurate punch in the world.*

*I think that Bruce Lee would beat anyone in UFC or Pride FC except Rickson Gracie.*

*Becouse Rickson has the best ground techniques in MMA.*

You calling someone an "idiot" is hilarious.

"That Bruce Lee, he could beat Fedor, but not Rickson Gracie!"

He had the strongest, most accurate punches....IN A MOVIE!


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## Black Guy (Oct 16, 2006)

Damone said:


> *he had the strongest and most acurate punch in the world.*
> 
> *I think that Bruce Lee would beat anyone in UFC or Pride FC except Rickson Gracie.*
> 
> ...


dude..maybe you dont know this so I'll tell you. He was a martial artist first and foremost. He is considered the greatest martial artist ever..not the greatest actor ever. 
And to Rabitor..your claim about Bruce being able to beat anyone in UFC or PRIDE except Rickson is just farfetched. Bruce may have been a master of Jeet Kune do, but he was not a master of MMA.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I am fully aware that Bruce Lee was a martial artist. But, thanks for overtly obvious answer.


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## Yeti (Oct 21, 2006)

With proper training he might have been great, but as it stands he would lose in the UFC today. Without training to add some kind of a ground game he wouldn't have been champ in his weight, let alone Ratibor's claim that he'd "beat anyone in UFC or Pride FC" that's just nonsense.


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## MMA1990 (Aug 1, 2006)

Black Guy said:


> But if he had proper MMA training like the fighters of today, with BJJ included. He could probably be champion material.


well...anyone can be champion material with enough traning. I see Lee as more of a MM revolutionary than a tough fighter. He's an overratted actor.


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## dutch sauce (Sep 24, 2006)

bruce lee would get sauced


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## Asian Sensation (Oct 9, 2006)

MMA1990 said:


> No he would not do good he was submitted many times when he was alive. He admmitted that his style was greatly flaued the fact he had little ground game would greatly hurt him. JKD is more suitable for streetfighting than MMA and Gung fu wouldnt do anything for him either.


the **** are you smoking lol he never said that and he wasnt submitted. though JKD has its motions and sets its more about adapating kinda like fedor in a way "you put water into a cup it becomes the cup water can flow or it can crash be water my friend" love that quote hahah and talks about how he could beat anyone in pride or ufc is bullshit at best in my opinion he couldve been pound for pound the best fighter i dont think he could take on someone like fedor who towers over him


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## Socko (Oct 16, 2006)

Borat Sagdiyev said:


> Bruce was one of the best Martial Artists ever, and if he had time to train..I'm sure that he would be a force to be reckoned with. He had EXCELLENT conditioning, a rock hard body and was a master of hand to hand combat. If he practiced BJJ for a few years, he'd be a superb MMA fighter.
> 
> According to wikipedia, "Bruce Lee's evaluation of traditional martial arts doctrines is nowadays seen as one of the first steps into popularising the modern style of mixed martial arts."
> In 2004, Dana White even credited Bruce Lee as the "father of mixed martial arts"
> How could the father of MMA *not* be good at it?


Yeah, I think hes one of the first ones to come up with the concept of Mix martial arts. You can say, he was ahead of his time.


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## gabester76 (Oct 16, 2006)

Ratibor said:


> Man if you think that Bruce Lee was just an actor than you must be an idiot. Maybe Bruce was light but it didnt matter cuz he had the strongest and most acurate punch in the world. I think that Bruce Lee would beat anyone in UFC or Pride FC except Rickson Gracie. Becouse Rickson has the best ground techniques in MMA so when he takes Bruce Lee down its all over.



who are you talking to? I know he wasn't "just an actor" I said to leave him on the shelf of his own. I hate when people use the WHAT IF bullshit. He would do well in MMA in his weight class. But the guy is a legend lets leave his name in legendary status and not try to bash him.


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## The Don (May 25, 2006)

FOr the record Brunce Knew his ground game was lacking and His "style" of Jeet Kun Do he openly admited was far from complete.. Before he died he was training in various grappling techniques to learn them and then he had plans to incorprate them into his Jeet Kun Do.. WHich he all but stopped teaching. His art was more about a philosophy of fighting then an actual style. THe medallion he wore was inscribed with, Use No way as Way have no limitation as Limitation. This basicly ment use what worked best for that giving situation as no two fights even betweenthe same two people will go the exact same way every time.. If MMA was around as is now in Bruces Day chances are he would have been involved early on and he was himble enough to learn (rather quickly) after being tapped out that ground skills are important too.. his striking game would have been one of if not the best in the business ... his ground skill while not non existent were not a strong point a fact he knew quiet well.. But it was a skill he was working on.. SO to say if bruce was involved in MMA chances are going by his work ethic and all other things considered he would have dominated his weight class most likely and have been a force even in the open weight type of fights but not unbeatable.. and yes I am a die hard bruce lee fan..


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## fullcontact (Sep 16, 2006)

Damone said:


> Bruce Lee is an actor. A guy who wowed people on screen, had Martial Arts knowledge, and taught his hollywood friends. I've seen this debate before, and it's just tiring. Bruce Lee is a bigger myth than Rickson Gracie, because atleast Gracie fought in MMA. Yea, Lee was around way before MMA, but he was an ACTOR, people. Beating up street fighters and other strikers doesn't equal MMA greatness.


To be able to perform in the UFC you have to train for fighting specifically under those circumstances. Since he died like 20 years before the UFC began he didnt train for this type of thing. 

Regardless of how he would do in the UFC, Bruce Lee had sensational physique, he was always trying to improve his strength, speed, flexibility, power... He studied fighting, he made his own system with all of the most effective techinques for fighting based on sparring with his students and studying Newton's laws of physics... He was able to knock a full grown man to the ground with the one-inch punch and could do two finger pushups.. 
He pressured his body to the limits and it is believed that this was the reason for his early death.
Bruce Lee was not just an actor, take notes.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

*Bruce Lee had sensational physique.*

And this pertains to MMA how?

*knock a full grown man to the ground with the one-inch punch and could do two finger pushups.*

Yep, knock a full grown man who knew nothing about ground technique or positioning. 2 finger pushups you say? Wow, that's pretty neat, but isn't this about Lee fighting in MMA? You saying that he eats 44 eggs while kicking his dog 12 feet doesn't really pertain to the topic at hand.

*He pressured his body to the limits and it is believed that this was the reason for his early death.*

Or, it could be that he had an allergic reaction to Equagesic.


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## Organik (Aug 28, 2006)

thebroken said:


> how would he fare with MMA fighters? do you think that his JEET KUN DO or GUNG FU would stand against other styles?



i have this argument everytime i watch a payperview with klots opf my friends around... all the hardheaded kids are always like "what if bruce lee fought in pride.. what if chuck norris fought in UFC..they would knock everyone out"

who knows.. this is like saying.. what if Mike Tyson fought Ali...


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## Borat Sagdiyev (Sep 19, 2006)

Damone said:


> *Bruce Lee had sensational physique.*
> 
> And this pertains to MMA how?
> 
> ...


Yea..he didnt die cause he "pushed himself to hard"..whoever said that, get your facts straight


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## Ren (Sep 12, 2006)

Bruce Lee was trained in the wrong style. As we discovered in UFC 1, 2, and 3, Kung Fu does NOT help you in an actual fight.

Besides for that, he was mainly an actor. As Damone said, his extreme fighting ability was merely a myth.

Anybody who claims he can beat anyone up is obviously uneducated and ignorant.


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## lilpuncher (Oct 12, 2006)

^^^^Tyson would get his a$$ kicked. Bruce Lee was a great master of his art. Lets just leave it at that. He (amoung a few others) brought this style of fighting to the American mainstream and for that we should be greatful, not ponder if he could be sucessful in MMA. This is rubbish, like apples & oranges. Both are great for us but one is one thing and the other is another thing. Its not the same.


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## Lars (Jul 13, 2006)

Bruce Lee did Kong Fu. Kung Fu fails epically.

While Lee was influential for his time, I'm sure a good boxer or thai fighter his weight would knock him out.


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## fullcontact (Sep 16, 2006)

Damone said:


> *Bruce Lee had sensational physique.*
> 
> And this pertains to MMA how?
> 
> ...


I was making the point that he was not just an actor, he has comtributed immensely the evolution of martial art and was an amazing athlete himself.How he would do in mma competition is irrelevant in my opinion since there was no such thing at the time so no one trained for that. But remember Bruce Lee's fighting philosophy at the end of his life was "using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation". He came to realise the importance of being an all round martial artist in order to be prepared for any given situation long before the UFC.
I got Bruce's back.


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## Onganju (May 26, 2006)

In regards to the above, you can say the same of other martial artists like Mas Oyama and Gene LeBell... Hell, you may even throw in Professional Wrestlers like Karl Gotch and Antonio Inoki in that equation too. While Bruce Lee may be the most well-known of all the Martial Artists of the time that encouraged "cross-training" and incorporating pieces of many different styles, he _wasn't the only one_. He was simply the most famous of them all...

Starring in 6 internationally released films can help *a lot *with that.


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## toritedo2006 (Oct 15, 2006)

Ren said:


> Bruce Lee was trained in the wrong style. As we discovered in UFC 1, 2, and 3, Kung Fu does NOT help you in an actual fight.
> 
> Besides for that, he was mainly an actor. As Damone said, his extreme fighting ability was merely a myth.
> 
> Anybody who claims he can beat anyone up is obviously uneducated and ignorant.


worst post ever. talk about uneducated and ignorant


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## fullcontact (Sep 16, 2006)

Onganju said:


> In regards to the above, you can say the same of other martial artists like Mas Oyama and Gene LeBell... Hell, you may even throw in Professional Wrestlers like Karl Gotch and Antonio Inoki in that equation too. While Bruce Lee may be the most well-known of all the Martial Artists of the time that encouraged "cross-training" and incorporating pieces of many different styles, he _wasn't the only one_. He was simply the most famous of them all...
> 
> Starring in 6 internationally released films can help *a lot *with that.



Starring in movies helpd a lot to make his fighting philosophys well known but I doubt anyone in his era had spent so much time as he did on finding the most effective fighting style or techniques or written and published as much a he did on this topic.


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## Matt_Serra_Fan (Oct 15, 2006)

If he wasnt allowed to kill he wouldnt do good because he cant do all that flips and stuff in the ring and he would die in guard or somethin like a clinch because he is used to just killing people on the spot and not having long battles.


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## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

I think he would have fought at 145 and been solid


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## Onganju (May 26, 2006)

fullcontact said:


> Starring in movies helpd a lot to make his fighting philosophys well known but I doubt anyone in his era had spent so much time as he did on finding the most effective fighting style or techniques or written and published as much a he did on this topic.


Considering that Lee only lived until 33, Mas Oyama died at 71, Gene LeBell is also 74 (and still living) and that there are many other names that I can throw in that hat that double his length on this Earth, I don't think that notion stands up to quantitative measures. Believe me: I am a huge fan of Bruce Lee. I have many of his books, and if you see me note reference materials for a lot of techniques, The Tao of Jeet Kune Do is a book I present a lot. As revolutionary and as ahead of his time that Bruce Lee's training philosophies were to the world of Martial Arts, his role still needs to be put in perspective. 

Bruce Lee was probably the single most influential martial artist in the late 20th century. However, all the postulation bandied about contemplating how Bruce Lee would perform in MMA is a trivial excercise in asking the question "What if?" that will provide only a minutiae of actual applicable rapport, regardless if you are a fan of his or not. I just needed to state that he was not the only revolutionary existant in the world of Martial Arts at the time. He was simply the most well known.


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## toritedo2006 (Oct 15, 2006)

Lars said:


> Bruce Lee did Kong Fu. Kung Fu fails epically.
> 
> While Lee was influential for his time, I'm sure a good boxer or thai fighter his weight would knock him out.


what? "fails epically"? what the hell are you talking about? 

and also, one of bruce's first real fights was against a british 2-time reigning boxing champion. he knocked him out.


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## NOLA_JACK (Oct 22, 2006)

Look, it is this simple, yes bruce lee was good, VERY GOOD for his time, but to be blunt the knowlege gained by actual in the octagon experiance has advanced the science of hand to hand combat more in the last 30 years than in the last 300. It is that simple, at his time he may have been the best, but now with the calibur of fighters, and the knowledge of the present, he wouldnt stand a chance


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## johnbender (Oct 24, 2006)

*ReTaRdS*

Anyone who thinks Bruce Lee was JUST AN ACTOR, ask Chuck Norris? Chuck Norris was just an actor too right? No biggie... Just thought I'd point that out to the mentally challenged amongst us who think Bruce wouldnt have completely PWNED his weight class at the very least!


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## fullcontact (Sep 16, 2006)

Onganju said:


> Considering that Lee only lived until 33, Mas Oyama died at 71, Gene LeBell is also 74 (and still living) and that there are many other names that I can throw in that hat that double his length on this Earth, I don't think that notion stands up to quantitative measures. Believe me: I am a huge fan of Bruce Lee. I have many of his books, and if you see me note reference materials for a lot of techniques, The Tao of Jeet Kune Do is a book I present a lot. As revolutionary and as ahead of his time that Bruce Lee's training philosophies were to the world of Martial Arts, his role still needs to be put in perspective.
> 
> Bruce Lee was probably the single most influential martial artist in the late 20th century. However, all the postulation bandied about contemplating how Bruce Lee would perform in MMA is a trivial excercise in asking the question "What if?" that will provide only a minutiae of actual applicable rapport, regardless if you are a fan of his or not. I just needed to state that he was not the only revolutionary existant in the world of Martial Arts at the time. He was simply the most well known.


Aight well put O.


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## dannov (Oct 17, 2006)

Damone said:


> Bruce Lee is an actor. A guy who wowed people on screen, had Martial Arts knowledge, and taught his hollywood friends. I've seen this debate before, and it's just tiring. Bruce Lee is a bigger myth than Rickson Gracie, because atleast Gracie fought in MMA. Yea, Lee was around way before MMA, but he was an ACTOR, people. Beating up street fighters and other strikers doesn't equal MMA greatness.


He was a fighter who acted, get your head out of your ass and do your research. There will NEVER be anyone like Lee again, that was an example of superhuman physical conditioning. Here's some facts about Lee:

- Lee took steroids and smoked marijuana. The former as he believed in achieving peak conditioning by any means, the latter for muscle relaxation.

- Lee was in the 138 lb. range.

- Lee was able to hold a 75 lb. bar directly in front of him for 20 seconds. Go try that some time. Drop to 138 lbs. and see what you can do as well.

- Lee's punches were too fast for video recording, and every one of his fight scenes actually has a slowed filter applied to it.

- Lee's personal engineer was actually developing robot-like systems for him to spar with, as conventional training equipment was getting destroyed left and right.

- An example of Lee's power -- he had a 150 lb. training bag, and kicked the thing so hard that it literally exploded. 150 lbs ... the friend that told the story said it took months to clean out of Lee's yard.

- Lee has his own personal fighting style, which INCLUDED ground techniques. I believe he once lost to a grounder, and realized the value of knowing how to fight on the ground as well as standing. Kung Fu nowadays is nothing like Lee's version, which was specific to him and his style.

- Lee trained himself to read body movements with pinpoint accuracy. He could see exactly what was coming and would already have countered it.

- Lee was frequently challenged by stuntmen on his set with martial arts background, and would always allow them the first punch. He beat down every...single...one without any issue.

These aren't Chuck Norris-like myths, and you people can keep kidding yourself by denying the man's achievements. Fact of the matter is, Lee was truly the "world's most dangerous man" and it's a bloody shame that ignorant assholes perceive him as an actor that fought and not for what he really was -- a man that lived by the sword, and died by the sword.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

You're missing the whole point of this thread. 

What would Bruce Lee do if he was in there with a guy who had good standup, judo, or BJJ? What if he got rocked? Would he shrug it off?

This thread isn't about how RAD~! you think Bruce Lee is. Hell, if he didn't do half the cool stuff in his movies, you wouldn't give a damn about him. 

The sport has evolved. There are world class athletes who'd tear Lee apart, and don't sit there spouting how Lee fought 12 bears at once(Well, that would be cool), because it's NOT relevant in this setting. 

Lee was fast...yea. You know who's also fast? Word class boxers.

Lets put it this way, Kimbo Slice destroyed men, but he wouldn't do that well against a decent level fighter. I'm not comparing the 2, but that's an example of people letting some cool stuff they've seen, get in the way of logic.

Look, I recognize Lee was a legit martial artist who was very influential, but a lot of people watch his movies and think he can do those things in MMA competition.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

hold on a sec...

You mean he cant take ona group of guys ... all at once  
You mean he cant jump over 15 foot fences in a single bound  

say it aint so!  

C'mon... this thread aint serious? is it?

Next thing you are going to tell me is that Jet Li can't do these things either 

Btw, Im a HUGE Bruce Lee fan... saw his movies in the Theatre...


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## Squeetard (Oct 22, 2006)

Did you guys know that every single on of the fighters at the last Pride bout, Fedor included, took one look at Chuck Norris and fell over unconscious.

They edited that part out.


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## NOLA_JACK (Oct 22, 2006)

He made a 150 LBs bag explode... DO YOU REALIZE HOW DUMB YOU ARE FOR POSTING THIS? First off, the physics would cause the bag so simply swing away, and rip open on the side opposite to where the blow was delivered, and around the counoure of the item impacting the bag. Making it explode from an outside impactis physiclly impossible. These are simply the dumb myths that are circulated in unporfessional fansites ran by kids in their early teens. Get me a video of this, or a RELIABLE site showing this, and then I will believe in it, instead of your stupidity. Read your post, and realize it says things like i believe, my friend said, etc. THOSE ARENT FACTS... sad


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## toritedo2006 (Oct 15, 2006)

im not the original poster, but this is the source of the exploding (sort of) bag thing:

"Bruce and I were training out on my patio one day, we were using this giant bag for side kicks, I guess it weighed about 150 lb. Bruce looked at it and just went Bang, it shot up out into the lawn about 15 ft in the air, it then busted in the middle. It was filled with little bits and pieces of rag, we were picking up bits of rag for months." 

-James Coburn


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## NOLA_JACK (Oct 22, 2006)

Im sorry, but as a physics major, I can say without a doubt that is impossible. Lets do math. Bruce Lee is roughly 140 LBs. The bag is 150 LBS. The bag sits about 3 feet of the groud and moved 15 feet. An object falls at 9.81m/s(squared) So it wouldve taken roughly .3 seconds for the bag to drop. So 15 feet traveled 15 feet before it hit the ground... so it moved 15 feet in .3 seconds, or 50 feet/second. 50 Feet/second means ALL of bruce lee's body mass would have to be moving at over 50 feet/second(he weighs less) Or about 59 MPH. Sorry, but physics say NO


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

NOLA_JACK said:


> Im sorry, but as a physics major, I can say without a doubt that is impossible. Lets do math. Bruce Lee is roughly 140 LBs. The bag is 150 LBS. The bag sits about 3 feet of the groud and moved 15 feet. An object falls at 9.81m/s(squared) So it wouldve taken roughly .3 seconds for the bag to drop. So 15 feet traveled 15 feet before it hit the ground... so it moved 15 feet in .3 seconds, or 50 feet/second. 50 Feet/second means ALL of bruce lee's body mass would have to be moving at over 50 feet/second(he weighs less) Or about 59 MPH. Sorry, but physics say NO


You forget though that Bruce is not encumbered by the laws of physics, in fact... all bets are off when dealing with him...

Ive heard reports that we was able to bend the space/time continuum which allowed him to create a vacuum "inside" the bad causing an implosion... which would account for the limited dispersal of said rags ... LOL

Heh, in fact... there are reports he actual did not move and merely fired his fist like a projectile at 60 MPH... it then returned back to his wrist with a 'click' sound....


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## NOLA_JACK (Oct 22, 2006)

Rep for you... and you will soon realize people will take that seriously


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## toritedo2006 (Oct 15, 2006)

i dont really doubt that it happened. i bet coburn is just exaggerating the bag's weight and/or the distance it went


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## Onganju (May 26, 2006)

Wow the last few points are quite humorous. Again... As I stated before... Take Bruce Lee for what he _was_, and keep it in perspective. Yes he's a contributing part of the modern Martial Arts scene. However, he is not the whole of the modern Martial Arts scene to be used as a measure for all existant Martial Artists.


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## NOLA_JACK (Oct 22, 2006)

toritedo2006 said:


> i dont really doubt that it happened. i bet coburn is just exaggerating the bag's weight and/or the distance it went


Well hell, I can toss a 80 pound bag across the room... its not hard. I out weigh lee by roughly 100 LBs though. IDK man, it seems like all of the stories, legends, whatever you want to call them completly fail when any serious thought, that isnt tainted by the fanboy worshiping of lee, is applied.


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## Yeti (Oct 21, 2006)

I really liked Nola Jacks's point a few pages ago


> Look, it is this simple, yes bruce lee was good, VERY GOOD for his time, but to be blunt the knowlege gained by actual in the octagon experiance has advanced the science of hand to hand combat more in the last 30 years than in the last 300. It is that simple, at his time he may have been the best, but now with the calibur of fighters, and the knowledge of the present, he wouldnt stand a chance


It's important to ask
Transplanted(Original) Bruce Lee
or 
Bruce Lee w/ an understanding of the advances in fight science since his day.

I say the former would get rocked, the second could be good. He had conditioning, skill, and more important he's intelligent and adaptive.


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## NOLA_JACK (Oct 22, 2006)

TY yeti... Rep 4 chu


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