# 2012 FFL Draft Poll



## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Would anyone be interested in tweaking the rules to include points for fighters picked if the draft still isn't over? Would only count if you had picked the fighter BEFORE his fight.


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## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

Yep they should be included if pick was made before they fought.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

I vote a big YES- members shouldn't be penalized for how the draft takes and miss an event.​


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I'm sure we'll get an unanimous here.


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

That won't happen! Hopefully we can give the majority of the people what they want though.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Rauno said:


> I'm sure we'll get an unanimous here.


Nope, there is a reason I asked this question at the beginning of the draft thread...

Imo if you do change the rules then the first event to give points should be UFC 142. Myself and likely others passed on Rockhold only because we knew the draft wasn't going to be finished. Good chance Lawal would have been taken as well.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

420atalon said:


> Nope, there is a reason I asked this question at the beginning of the draft thread...
> 
> Imo if you do change the rules then the first event to give points should be UFC 142. Myself and likely others passed on Rockhold only because we knew the draft wasn't going to be finished. Good chance Lawal would have been taken as well.


That i do agree with, the SF event was too close to the draft opening.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

420atalon said:


> Nope, there is a reason I asked this question at the beginning of the draft thread...
> 
> Imo if you do change the rules then the first event to give points should be UFC 142. Myself and likely others passed on Rockhold only because we knew the draft wasn't going to be finished. Good chance Lawal would have been taken as well.


We knew the Strikeforce event probably wouldn't be counted but this mainly to take in consideration for UFC 142 and the fighters who could earn points on that card.​


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Walker said:


> We knew the Strikeforce event probably wouldn't be counted but this mainly to take in consideration for UFC 142 and the fighters who could earn points on that card.​


My dates are screwed up, for some reason thought Toxic had picked Rockhold before that event. So in reality no one is getting points for that fight either.

I don't have any problem with 142 counting. Would like to be done this before that though...


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

142 should 100% count.


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

I have Chad Mendes... So yes please!


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

420atalon said:


> Nope, there is a reason I asked this question at the beginning of the draft thread...
> 
> Imo if you do change the rules then the first event to give points should be UFC 142. Myself and likely others passed on Rockhold only because we knew the draft wasn't going to be finished. Good chance Lawal would have been taken as well.


yes, This.


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

I am sure you guys will make changes next year. I think the easiest way to fix this is start the draft on Dec. 1st, instead of waiting until Jan. 1st. Then no other rules have to be changed. The draft can take all month and no one misses any events in the next year.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Term said:


> I am sure you guys will make changes next year. I think the easiest way to fix this is start the draft on Dec. 1st, instead of waiting until Jan. 1st. Then no other rules have to be changed. The draft can take all month and no one misses any events in the next year.


Mhm...that is a good idea.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I think its complete crap to even consider this. People made picks based on 142 being a gamble and those people are getting screwed. Heck the second pick of the draft was Frankie Edgar and this exact question was why it wasn't Jose Aldo. Now people who were later in the picking order and got Mendes and Aldo because people earlier passed on them get a pass? That is complete BS and I honestly don't even think we should be discussing this.



Walker said:


> We knew the Strikeforce event probably wouldn't be counted but this mainly to take in consideration for UFC 142 and the fighters who could earn points on that card.​


142 is no different, we all knew it was a gamble on whether or not the draft would get done. We drew the line in the sand that the draft had to be over. Everything changes if you mess with this. Do I get points for Rockhold? Why not? I mean if the start is moving up to 2012 I should get points, its not fair to anybody else but neither is counting 142 if the draft is not over. 

Without a word of a lie this infuriates me that the people are trying to change the rules once this thing started. This game is entirely about strategy and the strategy has to be based on all the information, strategies were formed based on the rules laid out at the start of the draft and those same rules should be in place until this draft finishes. You want to change it next year that is a topic for discussion, its to late for this one without screwing one group over and giving another an advantage.


I may even drop out in protest if this goes through because I think its unfair I don't want points for Rockhold either don't get me wrong because I never expected points for the Jardine fight when I picked him. Its just complete and utter crap.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

No, people have strategized around the possibility that the draft would not finish before UFC 142.

Save the tweaks and improvments for next year, several need to be made to make it fairer and more efficient.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Aldo picked 4th, it's not exactly like someone got a discount on him.

Don't be ridiculous. Just because you past on someone because of a terrible rule, doesnt mean it shouldn't be amended in the interest of fairness. And I dont even have anyone from 142.


I don't really get the idea that something as completely casual as an internet FFL league has to be strictly regulated and all the rules written in stone. It's not like we are playing for money, and if we were, I'm sure most of the bad rules wouldn't exist and would be more thought out.

It's really all about what people think is fair or not.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Aldo picked 4th, it's not exactly like someone got a discount on him.


 He would went second though if it was a guarantee that 142 was gonna be scored. This is the exact quote from the #2 selection.


The Best Around said:


> Tough call. If this is in time for the next UFC PPV, then I take Jose Aldo. But if it is not or no guarantee, then I take Frank Edgar.


Now were we are supposed to all think its ok to tell him well sorry about your luck but were gonna change the rules and completely screw you over now.

Personally I think Mendes beats Aldo and at the least would have entertained the idea of taking him in the first round had 142 been a lock. 


> Don't be ridiculous. Just because you past on someone because of a terrible rule, doesnt mean it shouldn't be amended in the interest of fairness. And I dont even have anyone from 142.


 The only thing unfair about the rule would be changing it now. Everyone who selected a fighter from 142 did so with at the very least a strong indication that they wouldn't obtain points from the card, those who past on fighters from the card also often also did so based on those same indications.



> I don't really get the idea that something as completely casual as an internet FFL league has to be strictly regulated and all the rules written in stone. It's not like we are playing for money, and if we were, I'm sure most of the bad rules wouldn't exist and would be more thought out.
> 
> It's really all about what people think is fair or not.


There is nothing unfair about the rule in place because its in place and was before the draft started everybody knew what they were getting into thats fair.. Changing the rules mid game is unfair to everyone involved.



I am so strongly against this its not even funny and honestly I don't think this idea should have ever been entertained. We are going to make changes next year that is a given but this year you play with the format that was laid out from the start IMO.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Toxic, me thinks you're taking this too seriously. I have a guy fighting on Saturday so I'm a little biased, but the fact that you would consider "dropping out in protest" if this passes( which the majority wants)is a little discouraging as a fan of yours. 

I'll be participating in the FFL league no matter what changes are made, especially if it is a open poll situation like this one. Judging from the past it's never a good thing to deny the people a right to choose. It seems like it's usually best to put personal preference aside and let the majority speak.


I'm stoned out of my mind though lying in bed, so take it for what it's worth. Please know I almost couldn't care less how this goes but find the counter-argument insignificant. The Best Around will get over it I'll pay him a mil large to keep his mouth shut.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I don't see it as a matter of who wants what. I really don't think what the majority wants is of any interest here. What I care about is what is fair and continuing with the rules laid out pre=draft is what is fair. It bothers me that this is being considered, we made rules and they should be followed, the fact that I told somebody one thing and then people want to change the rules bothers me. When I tell somebody something I want to be able to stand behind that.


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

Well then what about the people who picked BECAUSE of UFC 141? My first round pick is fighting on Saturday and how fair would it be if I missed on all those other good picks just to take Mendes ?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Intermission said:


> Well then what about the people who picked BECAUSE of UFC 141? My first round pick is fighting on Saturday and how fair would it be if I missed on all those other good picks just to take Mendes ?


You knew the rules when you picked and the rules were that if the draft didn't get finished you wouldn't get points. You took that chance and rolled the dice and now the rules should change because its not going to work out in your favor?


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

This certainly is not an official, rule-changing poll..

Even with the score sitting at 14-7, we need to keep in mind the original ancient Ffl laws CAN NOT ever be changed, and also that Toxic's vote counts for double. 

If we change the rules, god only knows what we will do next...


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

SJ said:


> This certainly is not an official, rule-changing poll..
> 
> Even with the score sitting at 14-7, we need to keep in mind the original ancient Ffl laws CAN NOT ever be changed, and also that Toxic's vote counts for double.
> 
> If we change the rules, god only knows what we will do next...


What about the 7 people who signed up and want to maintain the rules. All 21 people agreed to the rules the way they were laid out, only the 14 are agreeing to change them now. 
The actual score is 14 people want to change the rules, 7 people hate the idea and 31 people where fine with the rules in place and agreed to abide by them when they signed up. 

Its not that we can never change the rules, in fact we are already making plans to give the FFL a drastic overhaul next year which is fine because the new rules will be the ones laid out before the draft ever begins and picks and strategies will be based on those rules.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

I voted for 'yes, allow the points', however, Toxic makes a vey good point about the rules and players taking the chance. Therefor I'd like to change my vote to 'no'.

We all signed up under the set rules and we really shouldn't be complaining about them not changing.

Just my 2p


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## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

Jesus christ....


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

I changed it, Killstarz... sort of. The numbers did change, but it won't let me move your name if you click to see the results. If anybody else wants something like that send a message or otherwise let me know, it closes before the main card tomorrow night.


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## Hexabob69 (Nov 8, 2008)

Killstarz said:


> I voted for 'yes, allow the points', however, Toxic makes a vey good point about the rules and players taking the chance. Therefor I'd like to change my vote to 'no'.
> 
> We all signed up under the set rules and we really shouldn't be complaining about them not changing.
> 
> Just my 2p


 I am in complete agreement with this. I am happy you all still let me take part after missing first round so thanks but I too would like to change my vote or extract it period. I did miss first round after all.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

As far as my team goes I don't care as it doesn't affect my scoring but I do think it sucks that because certain members were not responsible enough to either watch the draft thread or send in lists have held the entire draft up to a snail's pace and now certain teams will miss out on points just because of that.​ 
Yes the FFL will be drastically changed next year but certain new members to this event had no idea that the draft would take this long even though it was possible and mentioned.​ 
Whatever is decided it only shows that we will make huge changes for next year but I'm not opposed at all to allow an exception for this draft for points to be scored for UFC 142. Like I said it doesn't affect my team but it sucks that certain members lose points that could drastically affect the overall standings just because the current draft set-up allows for certain members to delay it beyond anything reasonable.​ 
It doesn't affect me one way or the other but just sticking to crappy rules that aren't effective isn't the best policy to me. Hopefully too many people aren't turned off by how the season runs and come back next time when we make the necessary changes.​


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

My response to that walker is it sucks that certain members lose out on points because they passed on those fighters because of the risk of this draft taking this long being a real possibility was discussed before the second pick was ever made.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

I see both sides to this but either way it sucks as I know it affected draft picks so I don't mind if things stay as is but it's still pretty crappy that some people will lose on this just because how badly the draft has been conducted. 

I completely understand that certain members altered their early picks with the potential points loss in mind so if nothing is changed I'm not opposed to that. Either way people lose out in this situation.​


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

People lose either way, I just think its the people who knowingly took the chance and accepted that risk that should lose out not the ones who simply made there picks based on the rules as they were laid out.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Nothing is going to change obviously- we'll just let this flawed season and its rules play out for better or worse.​


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## Ruckus (Oct 2, 2009)

Toxic makes a very good point. I originally voted to allow the points because quite honestly I was a bit pissed that the draft took this long. I thought last years was a bit quicker and 2 weeks for a draft is way too long. However being part of other fantasy leagues, the rules are always the rules so I would like to rescind my vote.


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

I can change it. But the amount of the votes do show people are interested which was what the poll was for anyway, wow didn't think we would get so many either way :thumbsup: Maybe it will get changed, whenever the best time is for that anyway. I'll still be playing in 2013!


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Hexabob69 said:


> I am in complete agreement with this. I am happy you all still let me take part after missing first round so thanks but I too would like to change my vote or extract it period. I did miss first round after all.


"I did miss first round after all"

What the hell does that mean? People like are the exact reason this is being discussed in the first place.

Dragging the draft on to a ridiculous length and screwing several members out of points.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> "I did miss first round after all"
> 
> What the hell does that mean? People like are the exact reason this is being discussed in the first place.
> 
> Dragging the draft on to a ridiculous length and screwing several members out of points.


Nobody got screwed outta points, it was a gamble. Last year it took 11 days.. Thing is it took 11 days with only 2/3 as many people. Using it to estimate this draft I fully expected to take 16 days. Its not new guys slowing it down its just more people.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

it's the 2012 FFL, what point is it not having all the fights from 2012? I understand rules are rules but i say next year everyone has to send in a list of 20 fighters you want on registration.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Again with new people to the event not being able to judge exactly how long the last year's draft lasted and apply that to this year's numbers is one of the biggest problems.​ 
Hopefully in the future we can eliminate extrapolating past draft times to new expanding entrants' numbers so we don't run into this problem again.​ 
Bottom line this draft is flawed but it will be improved next year and we'll learn the lessons from this one for sure. We won't have the problem of juggling picking fighters based on whether or not their events will count or not next season.​ 
I completely understand the frustration with how points will be applied or not this season.​


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

The UFC are having more events each year it seems like, we might get one earlier than the 14th next year. Earlier drafting/quicker drafters/counting points during draft, next year I just hope we do something.


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

I skipped over Mendes and Anthony Johnson for my second pick because I saw how long it was taking. The draft started on the first and I didn't get to make my first pick until 5:40 PM on the 4th. From that point there were still 2 more regular picks and then the 4 people who got skipped in the first round. The second round didn't start for almost 24 hours later. 5 days for 1 round, so it seemed like a pretty good bet we would not be done by the 14th. 

Only three fighters from the card were picked in the first round and Mendes was technically last. I don't see how a undefeated guy in a main event title fight was almost the last pick of the first round unless others were worried about that as well.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

I voted 'no' because these are the rules I based my picks on.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Swapping my vote to no. But I hope that the rule is changed for next year, that an events beginning after a certain date count, and before a certain date do not count. I think missing the first event of the year is ok...but missing the first big title defense is pretty aweful.


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## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

Surely if we start the draft in the last two weeks of December it will probably be complete before any events have started in 2013..


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

hixxy said:


> Surely if we start the draft in the last two weeks of December it will probably be complete before any events have started in 2013..


Yep, I also think beginning the draft before the 1st of Jan is a good idea.


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

I think the people who should be penalized is the people who I had to sit around ******* waiting hours for only to skip their damn picks. Now I risk losing my first round pick?!

I didn't send in a list even ONCE and yet look, I didn't miss one pick by over 10 minutes of my time! I played this draft the was it was suppose to be and now it might not be finished in time because of the fact we waiting 8 HOURS AT A TIME for people, some people MULTIPLE times and I get penalized for it? Thats bullshit.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

You took a chance picking him Inter, going by past drafts there was no reason to believe it would get done in time.


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

Toxic said:


> You took a chance picking him Inter, going by past drafts there was no reason to believe it would get done in time.


That's not the point in making the point I'm making is "I can't believe I'm going to lose my pick because people aren't even coherent enough to send a damn list of names"


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

hixxy said:


> Surely if we start the draft in the last two weeks of December it will probably be complete before any events have started in 2013..


This.

What we're doing is equivalent to starting a fantasy football draft on the morning of the first games, and skipping some of the season for no reason.


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## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

And ill be well annoyed if this draft is still going on by the time GSP is back...


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

Why dont we just start the draft in December for next years FFL?


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