# Jason MacDonald joins Babalu and BJ Penn....



## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

to cause unnecessary damage to an opponent after they knew the fight was stopped...

disgusting


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## 6sidedlie (Nov 19, 2006)

I want to see this fight, but that was haggard shit from Jason. Remember when the dude couldn't even get up for the 3rd round against Franklin? Stick him in there with someone that has decent hands and is some what strong and he is screwed.

Please put him and Bisping together.


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## Lotus (Jul 4, 2007)

that's pretty pathetic.... very uneccesary


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

he said in a post fight interview..."i knew he was out but i gave him a few more just for good measure..."

and he gets a $75K bonus.....


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

WTF.. why was that necessary?


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## vancitypimp (Apr 8, 2007)

In that same interview he said that the ref kind of jumped in, then hesitated so he kept punching until he actually stopped he fight for real.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Wow. Completely classless and dangerous, worst than Babalu and Penn since they had submissions locked in. He knocks a guy out, ref steps in and as soon as he leaves he drops more. 

Kid Yamamoto (I think) is still the worse one I`ve seen.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

and why is steve mazzagatti always in these controversial fights....


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

Whoa, he got the KO Bonus? For doing something illegal? 

To be honest, I would hope he gets charged for assault for that. That has nothing to do with the sanctioned fight...that is straight up assault. How does he not get in any sh!t for this? Oh yeah, the MW Division is so thin...

EDIT:



Aaronyman said:


> and why is steve mazzagatti always in these kinda fights....


Maz didn't do anything wrong though. He stopped it pretty quick and then when J-Mac started that crap again he pushed him away.


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## pliff (Oct 5, 2006)

6sidedlie said:


> I want to see this fight, but that was haggard shit from Jason. Remember when the dude couldn't even get up for the 3rd round against Franklin? Stick him in there with someone that has decent hands and is some what strong and he is screwed.
> 
> *Please put him and Bisping together*.




You know I think that fight kind of makes sense right now..

J-Mac has lost against Franklin and Okami (who are prolly #2 and 3 in the division) and beat guys like Chris Leben and Ed Herman. 2 guys that are somewhere in the middle.

Bisping did good on the show, did alright againt great fighters at 205 and destroyed Captain Miserable. Altough I would love to see Bisping vs Leben, I think this fight is pretty even in the rankings department..


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## LivingDedMan (May 10, 2007)

Yes, very uncalled for and even fine worthy in my opinion.


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## All_In (Aug 23, 2007)

vancitypimp said:


> In that same interview he said that the ref kind of jumped in, then hesitated so he kept punching until he actually stopped he fight for real.


Doesn't look like a hesitation at all. That was pretty screwed up.


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## drockh (Nov 17, 2006)

that was about as bad as ive seen... really not needed damage and he should be fined for that.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

i'm sorry, but when you know a fighter is unconscious, show some ******* restraint


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## capt_america (Apr 16, 2007)

that was way stupid compared to penn and babalu coz those were just prolonged sub holds.. jmac's was strikes :confused05: :confused05:


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## pliff (Oct 5, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> *i'm sorry, but when you know a fighter is unconscious, show some ******* restraint*


especially trying to change its image from Drunken bar fights to a professional sport.

He should get his bonus taken back from him.


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## Lotus (Jul 4, 2007)

it does not matter who was worse Penn's or j-macs it doesn't matter a choke is bad for you if held on to long strikes are very dangerous to a man knocked unconscious already and having more strikes hit him in that state, either or can cause brain damage or worse, remember it's not about who's worse it's about a single disgusting act by an individual.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Lotus said:


> it does not matter who was worse Penn's or j-macs it doesn't matter a choke is bad for you if held on to long strikes are very dangerous to a man knocked unconscious already and having more strikes hit him in that state, either or can cause brain damage or worse, remember it's not about who's worse it's about a single disgusting act by an individual.


all 3 fights had bad blood and they all acted maliciously...

i kid you not...my signature used to have a favourite fighters list and BJ used to be on it....after he pulled that shit i removed it

j-mac should at the very least lose his bonus


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## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

I don't know why he didn't get fined $25k like Babalu and possibly let go. I wouldn't want to see such a talent let go but when you do that kind of crap, go home cause I wouldn't want kids seeing this jackass fight and thinking it's cool to do that.


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## Lotus (Jul 4, 2007)

i agree completely Aaronyman all three acts are horrendous i just didn't want people comparing each finish to see who's was worse... it's kind of sick


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## Gallows (Oct 16, 2006)

Is there another camera angle on that? Why does no one mention this anywhere in any of the fight recaps? 
This seems weird because I was reading up on this fight on a number of different sites today and no one says anything strange happened. I also highly doubt they're going to give KO of the night to someone who so blatantly carries the fight on after being stopped.


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## SideWays40 (Feb 15, 2008)

Havent seen the whole fight but from the gif im sorry but thats disgusting. This sport is tyring to get out of the bar fight room spectacle and people like j mac are not making it easy for them.

Send jmac to fight henderson.... once henderson kicks the shit out of jmac then rip his contract with the ufc.


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## Gallows (Oct 16, 2006)

Okay I just watched that fight. That gif is totally misleading. At first I was disgusted when looking at the .gif, then I thought "if it happened that way, everyone and their brother would've written about it". Anyhow, what happens is Maz comes in close and kneels there, but doesn't actually wave off MacDonald or stop the fight, he just sort of looks down at Doerkson, Mac hesitates then drops 2 more punches before Maz waves him off. Mac -does- throw a final hammerfist as he's getting up though, which is low. But to be honest the gif for some reason is a super tight shot where you don't see what Maz is actually doing. Which explains how he got KO of the night instead of being kicked out of the UFC. heh.


/edit
Just so no one thinks I'm accusing, I don't think the thread submitter was trying to mislead, but saw the gif and was just as equally disgusted like everyone else.


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## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

Gallows said:


> Is there another camera angle on that? Why does no one mention this anywhere in any of the fight recaps?
> This seems weird because I was reading up on this fight on a number of different sites today and no one says anything strange happened. I also highly doubt they're going to give KO of the night to someone who so blatantly carries the fight on after being stopped.


Read the sherdog play by play. Then mentioned it at the end.


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## Gallows (Oct 16, 2006)

Yeah, he does throw one extra one in there, but not a whole series. Maz for some reason hesitated in stopping the fight, probably second guessed himself.


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## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

Gallows said:


> Yeah, he does throw one extra one in there, but not a whole series. Maz for some reason hesitated in stopping the fight, probably second guessed himself.


Guess I'll have to watch the real fight before I make up my mind though.

How did I come between your double post lol.


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

*The Ref.*

Steve Mazzagatti is a sadistic halfwit! Why is there always issues in the fights that he referees? Is he scared to physically intervene to halt a fight? 
I genuinely thought that he was going to let Jardine be beat to death by Alexander. :sign04:
Compare Mazzagatti's efforts to Herb Dean or Big John and you realise that he is a liability.


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

Haha, "this is nothing compared to Babalu and Penn", the love for Penn on this site is surely SICKENING.

Cutting off air supply is just as bad as strikes to an unconcious fighter no matter if it's BJ Penn or not, grow up people.

Babalu gets released, Penn gets to stay and fight for the title after beating Jens Pulver, makes sense. "J-Mac" shouldn't be allowed back either.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

how weird is it that steve mazzagatti did all 3 of those fights???


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## bigdog89 (Oct 17, 2007)

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Haha, "this is nothing compared to Babalu and Penn", the love for Penn on this site is surely SICKENING.
> 
> Cutting off air supply is just as bad as strikes to an unconcious fighter no matter if it's BJ Penn or not, grow up people.
> 
> Babalu gets released, Penn gets to stay and fight for the title after beating Jens Pulver, makes sense. "J-Mac" shouldn't be allowed back either.


If your talking the penn pulver fight on the tuf finale then am i the only one to realize this but penn let it go once the ref stepped in.which is what your supposed to do continue fighting and pursue the advantage until told to stop.If your guy taps and the ref doestn see it you dont get the win.He made sure that the ref was the one calling it and not himself.


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## aGenius (Feb 5, 2007)

RushFan said:


> Steve Mazzagatti is a sadistic halfwit! Why is there always issues in the fights that he referees? Is he scared to physically intervene to halt a fight?
> I genuinely thought that he was going to let Jardine be beat to death by Alexander. :sign04:
> Compare Mazzagatti's efforts to Herb Dean or Big John and you realise that he is a liability.


I know I would feel a lot safer if the reff wasn't a little guy. But did anyone see one of the new reffs that reffed at the last UFN? He looked like a 140lbs tranny!!


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

bigdog89 said:


> If your talking the penn pulver fight on the tuf finale then am i the only one to realize this but penn let it go once the ref stepped in.which is what your supposed to do continue fighting and pursue the advantage until told to stop.If your guy taps and the ref doestn see it you dont get the win.He made sure that the ref was the one calling it and not himself.


uh no...you can clearly jens tap, steve jump in and penn grit his teeth as he squeezes for a few more seconds


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

bigdog89 said:


> If your talking the penn pulver fight on the tuf finale then am i the only one to realize this but penn let it go once the ref stepped in.which is what your supposed to do continue fighting and pursue the advantage until told to stop.If your guy taps and the ref doestn see it you dont get the win.He made sure that the ref was the one calling it and not himself.


And this is that kind of "love" I'm talking about. No, you didn't realize that because it didn't happen like that. Everyone knew what Penns intentions were, don't be a moron to think otherwise and try to persuade yourself into thinking that because it's foolish.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

The gif is pretty misleading it wasn't that bad Maz defiantly hesitated.

I still think Kid and Gomi have both done worse than what the gif showed. But it really wasn't that bad. It was Messed up but not anything that should be blown up.


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## Joweman (Feb 3, 2008)

From looking only at the video provided at the start of the forum i'd say he thought for a sec that the ref was breaking it up and started getting up but the ref saw him getting up so stopped too. the ref stopping made macdonald think o hes not stoppin us so started to hit some more. If that wasn'tthe case then he is a dirty prick and should be kicked out.


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

Uh, the way MacDonald looked down at him when he finally DID stop, clearly showed that he knew the fight was stopped and he wanted to provide more blows.


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## Lotus (Jul 4, 2007)

especially how j-mac stands over the other fighter not only gloating but taunting him


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Uh, the way MacDonald looked down at him when he finally DID stop, clearly showed that he knew the fight was stopped and he wanted to provide more blows.


not to mention the post fight interview "i stopped..he was out..he went limp..he was out...i thought steve stopped it...and i gave him a couple more for good measure...just so he wouldn't forget what happened the first fight...that reminds him the second time around"


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

*What the Funk?*



Aaronyman said:


> how weird is it that steve mazzagatti did all 3 of those fights???


I just watched Velasquez vs Morris from UFC 83. 
Another fighter gets butchered and guess who the ref is?
Morris gets dropped by a punch at least twice in that fight and Mazzagatti lets it continue. Shocking. 
An alarming double standard is emerging where no name fighters are allowed to get mauled while semi conscious and Rampage vs Liddell (UFC 71) is stopped before Liddell hits the canvas.
:angry02:


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> not to mention the post fight interview "i stopped..he was out..he went limp..he was out...i thought steve stopped it...and i gave him a couple more for good measure...just so he wouldn't forget what happened the first fight...that reminds him the second time around"


Maybe now people will shut the **** up about how "Maz hesitated". Then again, even that might not be enough substantial evidence for some people on here.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Maybe now people will shut the **** up about how "Maz hesitated". Then again, even that might not be enough substantial for some people on here.


alex...you have to remember that 1/2 the forum thinks penn could beat fedor


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Steve didn't stop it though. He might have been out but unless the ref stops it I'm not sure what you want Jason to do wait for Maz to stop it and just stand there.

Herman was out cold in Maia's choke for a while before he let go because the ref didn't step in.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> to cause unnecessary damage to an opponent after they knew the fight was stopped...
> 
> disgusting



also i'd blame some of that on the ref too, if you watch the fight you will see that steve mazagadagasf went in to stop it then just backed off with this wierd look and then when jason proceeded to attack again only then did steve lay on top of joe and waved his hand to signal the end of the fight.


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## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

aGenius said:


> I know I would feel a lot safer if the reff wasn't a little guy. But did anyone see one of the new reffs that reffed at the last UFN? He looked like a 140lbs tranny!!


LOL, I saw that new ref and thought the exact same thing. He wouldn't be able to pull Jorge Gurgel (or whatever his name is) off another LW.




RushFan said:


> I just watched Velasquez vs Morris from UFC 83.
> Another fighter gets butchered and guess who the ref is?
> Morris gets dropped by a punch at least twice in that fight and Mazzagatti lets it continue. Shocking.
> An alarming double standard is emerging where no name fighters are allowed to get mauled while semi conscious and Rampage vs Liddell (UFC 71) is stopped before Liddell hits the canvas.
> :angry02:


Also at first I didn't by into this Mazigatti thing much but you guys are right. They should cut him cause I was a little surprised he let the Morris fight keep doing. I think he stopped it due to a possible verbal tap but give me a break. If that was the case that's horrible.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

also that GIF doesn't do it any justice you have to watch the end of that fight to really get the feel of what i just tried to say.


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Maybe now people will shut the **** up about how "Maz hesitated". Then again, even that might not be enough substantial for some people on here.


Referees are responsible for stopping a fight by TKO. If Mazzagatti does his job there is no problem.


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> not to mention the post fight interview "i stopped..he was out..he went limp..he was out...i thought steve stopped it...and i gave him a couple more for good measure...just so he wouldn't forget what happened the first fight...that reminds him the second time around"





RushFan said:


> Referees are responsible for stopping a fight by TKO. If Mazzagatti does his job there is no problem.


Quit with this argument because it's pointless now. Maz stopped the fight, MacDonald stopped, and threw some more, got up, taunted, end of your pointless argument. Jesus Christ the guy who DID it tells you himself.

Seriously Aaron, sometimes this forum makes Sherdog seem respectful.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Alex the fight isn't stopped unless the Ref covers the fighter and waves over him to show he is done. Maz didn't do that he came in but just stopped. That isn't a stoppage.

Macdonald says he thought Maz stopped the fight. But Maz didn't so he finished the fight.

When Did Maz stop the fight he came in close and stopped. He didn't wave Macdonald off at all. And Maz didn't even seem like he thought Macdonald was wrong.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Maybe a bigger problem is some fighters are too used to Big John literally throwing them off when the fight is stopped. Still no excuse, if the ref jumps in in any way then he is either penalizing you, resetting you, or stopping the fight. In all 3 cases you aren't allowed to punch the guy again "for good measure". I hope he gets fined to hell and 6-9 months before he gets to fight again so he can feel the financial strain.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Maz didn't stop the fight. He didn't wave Macdonald off. If fighters stop everytime the ref gets close than we are going to see a lot of weird things.

Aaronyman You misquoted Macdonald also. He said He thought Steve stopped the fight but then Steve was just standing there so he gave him some punches to remember what happened last time.


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

The key to what McDonald says is "i *thought* Steve stopped it". 
He "thought" Steve stopped the fight but wasnt *sure* that the fight was stopped. The Ref needs to make a clearly defined action to indicate that the fight is over. 
Kneeling down next to the fighters is far from the standard procedure for indicating that a fight is over. Its more Mazzagatti rubbish. 
A good referee understands that fighters, by design, enter the octagon with bad intentions. Therefore they need to be rigorous when enforcing the rules and controlling the action. Mazzagatti fails on both counts, regularly.
The worst anyone could say of McDonald is that he exploited Mazzagatti's reputation of allowing prolonged beat downs due to bad blood between himself and Doerksen.
However, Fighting to the bell and obeying the referee is MMA 101. I cant fault McDonald.


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

He looks like he is enjoying himself... heheh

But that is a pretty half assed looking stoppage on the ref's part... Big John would have moved Jason off of him.


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## SuzukS (Nov 11, 2006)

Here come the arguments of whether Penn or Babalu did more wrong. Macdonalds extra shots were much more dangerous than Babalu/Penn's submission holds though since when someone is out it only takes a shot to give them serious head injury.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

SuzukS said:


> Here come the arguments of whether Penn or Babalu did more wrong. Macdonalds extra shots were much more dangerous than Babalu/Penn's submission holds though since when someone is out it only takes a shot to give them serious head injury.


holding a RNC too long can cause serious injury as well...even death


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

joey__stalin said:


> Big John would have moved Jason off of him.


This post pretty much backs up the feelings from mine. It is not part of Steve's job description to pick up and throw fighters around like a rag doll. It is part of the job description of the fighter to listen and obey all of the refs commands. I understand that with the blood flowing and the action going hot that it can be hard to focus on the ref, but guess what, it is part of the job and you listening to the ref has just as much to do with the other fighters saftey as the ref making sure to stop it in time.


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

cdtcpl said:


> This post pretty much backs up the feelings from mine. It is not part of Steve's job description to pick up and throw fighters around like a rag doll. It is part of the job description of the fighter to listen and obey all of the refs commands. I understand that with the blood flowing and the action going hot that it can be hard to focus on the ref, but guess what, it is part of the job and you listening to the ref has just as much to do with the other fighters saftey as the ref making sure to stop it in time.


Yes, cause Big John picking up Jason and tossing him out of the cage was exactly what I was talking about...

And most of the quotes I have read that people have been posting aren't the full quote from Jason. Just the gist of it. 

_"Well I stopped, he was out, I hit him with like probably four of five hard elbows. He went limp. His head fell down. I thought he was out, he was out. And I thought Steve stopped it. And I let up and Steve was still standing there... so I gave him a couple more for good measure."_

Then it looks like Steve stopped it like he should have the first time.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I have yet to see a single thing that could possible justify in any way those extra hits. He even admits that he knew the guy was out, why the extra hits? There have been fights before where the opponent has told the ref "I think he is out". But no, Jason decides that punching people when they are lights out is better.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

I stand corrected Jmac did nothing wrong IMO.


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

And in that quote, we can't know or not if he knew at the time he was out, could have just added "He was out" after the fact after seeing replays ect.

Looks like, to me, that Steve went in to stop it, hesitated and pulled back a little and then stopped it.


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## kilik (Oct 12, 2007)

I just watched the fight... here is a link: http://www.dailymotion.com/search/ufc+83/video/x55ysf_ufc-83-joe-doerkson-vs-jason-macdon_tech

steve Mazzagatti clearly hesitated before stopping the fight so you cant blame J-Mac as his hammerfists were legal as the fight wasnt stopped.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

kilik said:


> I just watched the fight... here is a link: http://www.dailymotion.com/search/ufc+83/video/x55ysf_ufc-83-joe-doerkson-vs-jason-macdon_tech
> 
> steve Mazzagatti clearly hesitated before stopping the fight so you cant blame J-Mac as his hammerfists were legal as the fight wasnt stopped.


After watching it 4 or so more times your right it is another steve Mazzagatti mishap.


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## SuzukS (Nov 11, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> holding a RNC too long can cause serious injury as well...even death


True, but from what I remember Pulver wasn't out even after Penn finally let go, and Heath passed out just as Babalu let go (likely from the pressure of the immediate release). J-Mac's additional strikes were delivered when Doerksen was already out. Regardless I think that J-Mac probably didn't think Steve stopped the fight since he doesn't really STOP the fight until the second time around, most ref's will often lunge themselves at an attacking fighter to stop the fight.


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## Slug (Apr 8, 2007)

yeah.. steve mazzagatti 100% hesitated. thanks for posting the link to the fight. jason did absolutely nothing wrong for that and should not even be closed to fined because mazzagati did not stop the fight until he thought the other guy was completely out.


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

Nobody sees any similarity between Maia vs Herman?

Eh, anyway here is one I put together


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Does anyone have an audio of this? You can't see his head so I can't tell if he was saying anything. After thinking over this some more I can see the case being made if he was saying something like "Fight your way out of it" or "Show me your still in this". Then I could see why Jason would keep fighting even though the ref looks like he is jumping in. On the flip side if we could see/hear Steve saying "It's over" or something then it would also help determine who would be at fault.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

joey__stalin said:


> Nobody sees any similarity between Maia vs Herman?
> 
> Eh, anyway here is one I put together


from that view, i dunno wtf steve mazzagati was doing....

looks like it was a lazy fight stoppage by the ref....but macdonalds words after the fight is what tells me there was some malicious intent


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

It's like one of those lazy Herb Dean stoppages.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

joey__stalin said:


> It's like one of those lazy Herb Dean stoppages.


steve's pretty inconsistent with how he stops fight...you look at this fight or the lesnar/mir fight...he just stands there waving his arms.....other times he jumps right in there and yells loudly "STOP" like the cro cop/sanchez fight


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## Chris32 (Sep 22, 2006)

Guys I was there in person and two things you need to remember.

1) it was DEAFENING in the arena and you couldn't hear a thing over the noise of the crowd
2) Maz clearly hesitated and we've all seen his fights with questionable stoppages so Jason kept going till he was sure it was stopped. 

Dont forget Herb Dean and those guys often tackle the fighter off the other guy. 

In the heat of the moment you'd make sure the ref was definitely stopping the fight before you'd stop hitting the guy...


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Quit with this argument because it's pointless now. Maz stopped the fight, MacDonald stopped, and threw some more, got up, taunted, end of your pointless argument. Jesus Christ the guy who DID it tells you himself.
> 
> Seriously Aaron, sometimes this forum makes Sherdog seem respectful.


Are we watching the same video? I totally disagree. It seems like Maz hesitates and J-mac is unsure what to do. It is the refs job to make it absolutly clear the fight is over: he should have been waving his arms and covering like he did AFTER the "late" punches were thrown. This isn't the first time, by any means, we have seen Maz mess up like this. 

You should try not insulting people who disagree with you, Alex. THAT is what makes this place feel like sherdog.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

joey__stalin said:


> He looks like he is enjoying himself... heheh
> 
> But that is a pretty half assed looking stoppage on the ref's part... Big John would have moved Jason off of him.


I have no doubt in my mind at all that the situation would not have occured if Big John was the ref that night.

The situation was created by the manner in which Maz stopped the fight/didn't stop the fight. You really can't tell what he was trying to do; he certainly didn't wave his arms in the classic "it's all over" motion.



cdtcpl said:


> I have yet to see a single thing that could possible justify in any way those extra hits. He even admits that he knew the guy was out, why the extra hits? There have been fights before where the opponent has told the ref "I think he is out". But no, Jason decides that punching people when they are lights out is better.


read the post above your own


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

Funniest part of all this is Jason McDonald is such a UFC nerd. He's done a WWE, once a good guy and now an evil maniac all in the space of one fight. :happy01: 
Read my previous posts:
1. Mazzagatti is a liability
2. It's Ultimate Fighting = Crush faces given the chance.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> from that view, i dunno wtf steve mazzagati was doing....
> 
> looks like it was a lazy fight stoppage by the ref....but macdonalds words after the fight is what tells me there was some malicious intent


Aaronyman you are acting like guys don't punch guys who the know are out in the face all the time? When a guy is out and the ref doesn't notcie right away they often take extra hit. Maia choked Herman out and was punching him so the ref would stop the fight.

It happens all the time. Was Macdonald being a nice guy? NO. But it wasn't against the rules at all perfectly legal.

Where as Babalu and BJ kept fighting after the ref had clearly ended the fight.


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## mma17 (Jun 4, 2007)

Terry77 said:


> Kid Yamamoto (I think) is still the worse one I`ve seen.


Agreed.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

He got 75K for that? He should have been fined for that. What a bunch of crap. That is far worse than holding a choke a little longer bacause undefended strikes can do ridiculous damage. Assuming that a choke isn't held for a ridiculously long time, it won't cause much damage if any.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I don't know what's more disturbing: Jason MacDonald's actions or people making it seem like what BJ Penn did to Pulver was nothing.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Davisty and Damone I'm JW have you guys seen the fight or just the gif.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

I've only seen the GIF, is the actual fight that much different? 

And Damone, I'm not saying that holding a choke longer than necessary is nothing. I'm simply saying that it is more dangerous to throw strikes at a opponent who isn't defending than to hold a choke for a few seconds to long.


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## 6sidedlie (Nov 19, 2006)

I really hate the comparison, and the 'who did worse'. Who cares? If I rob a bank with a knife, and someone else uses a gun his weapon may be more dangerous but the intent is the same. I don't care whose doing what.

But the .gif really doesn't do it justice. The Maz goofed IMO.


----------



## CopperShark (May 13, 2006)

This is dumb.. In the Sherdog interview, he clearly stats that Maz said to him, "Jay, Keep going" THEN afterward, Joe comes into Jason's lockerroom and they shake hands and Joe THANKS Jason for taking the fight.. There was no talk of "Why the &^%%$ did you keep hitting me?!" Also -- Joe had been TKO'd twice before this fight, in an over forty fight career, and before those two TKO's people were talking about him like his the hardest fighter to finish, in MMA. Jason did nothing wrong, it was the 
Ref's fault. And OBVIOUSLY Maz came forward behind the scenes because Dana wouldn't throw an extra 75k at a guy who hit somoene after the stoppage.


----------



## OmicMMA (Nov 19, 2007)

Watch the fight you guys...you can totaly tell that MAZ effed up...The guy froze half way through stopping the fight...Jason looks up at him, and MAZ backed away it almost seemed like. Heat of the moment, what evs. Im sure the 2 extra hammer fists didnt really deture the 15+ elbows...oooo well. I would blame this one on Maz, look at the other fights he reffed..not a good reff IMO.


----------



## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> to cause unnecessary damage to an opponent after they knew the fight was stopped...
> 
> disgusting


Ummm no take a look at this video

http://www.sherdog.com/videos/videos.asp?v_id=1549

Jason Looked at Mazagatti to stop the fight and he said to keep going because Steve didn't know he was out.

No offense but you should look into things before you point the finger.


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Damone said:


> I don't know what's more disturbing: Jason MacDonald's actions or people making it seem like what BJ Penn did to Pulver was nothing.


What did you find disturbing about J-mac's actions? 

He was not stopped, so he didn't stop.



southpaw447 said:


> Ummm no take a look at this video
> 
> http://www.sherdog.com/videos/videos.asp?v_id=1549
> 
> ...



Thanks for posting that. Solidified in my mind what I already thought I had seen.


----------



## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

southpaw447 said:


> Ummm no take a look at this video
> 
> http://www.sherdog.com/videos/videos.asp?v_id=1549
> 
> ...


No offense to you, but the GIF looked pretty clear, unless you are talking to the TS . 

My bad, I guess everything is all good for J-Mac.


----------



## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

Whether Maz stopped it or not, would I take shots at a guy I could tell was completely out just because the "fight wasn't stopped" yet? 

Nope.


----------



## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

I was talking to the TS that's why I quoted him. He went off on J-Mac when didn't even know what really happened



kds13 said:


> Whether Maz stopped it or not, would I take shots at a guy I could tell was completely out just because the "fight wasn't stopped" yet?
> 
> Nope.


And risk him coming back to consciousness and risk losing the fight? Nope

You go until the ref tells you to stop.


----------



## Wise (Oct 8, 2006)

southpaw447 said:


> And risk him coming back to consciousness and risk losing the fight? Nope
> 
> You go until the ref tells you to stop.


I agree. I mean guys go out all the time in fights and come to due to a punch or something and go on. Poor reffing, good killer instinct by Jason.


----------



## OmicMMA (Nov 19, 2007)

Holy crap i cant believe ppl are still arguing the fact. ITS A FIGHT! You win the fight by finishing your opponent off to the point where the reff steps in and stops it...Thats it..jays not an animal, hes just a fighter. 

Maz needs to retire...too many bad calls...i would hate for him to reff one of my fights...jeez.


----------



## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

Chael Sonnen supposedly had Filho out when he took him down he looked at the ref and said he was out but the fighter isn't the ref, you go until the ref intervenes. Had he not wasted his time pleading with the ref he could have put filho to sleep with some shots but instead he took a risk and LOST.

Perfect Example.


----------



## All_In (Aug 23, 2007)

southpaw447 said:


> Chael Sonnen supposedly had Filho out when he took him down he looked at the ref and said he was out but the fighter isn't the ref, you go until the ref intervenes. Had he not wasted his time pleading with the ref he could have put filho to sleep with some shots but instead he took a risk and LOST.
> 
> Perfect Example.


Filho was definitely out during that fight.

But, at first look, the blows looked late. Obviously, after different views and analysis by J-Mac himself, it was not his fault at all.


----------



## moldy (May 6, 2006)

I agree if the ref doesn't push you off you keep going. If he hadn't and by some miracle joe had got out and away this thread would have said.

*Jason macdonald is stupid for not finishing a guy when he had the chance*


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

kds13 said:


> Whether Maz stopped it or not, would I take shots at a guy I could tell was completely out just because the "fight wasn't stopped" yet?
> 
> Nope.


While I see your point what Jason did wasn't dirty or anything. Now would I beat on a guy I think is Knocked out cold? No. But if I didn't like the guy and the ref told me to keep fighting sure I would take a few shots if we were fighting.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

*The fight video!*

Here's the fight guys!:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x562dg_jason-mc-donald-vs-joe-doerksen_sport


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

> What did you find disturbing about J-mac's actions?
> 
> He was not stopped, so he didn't stop.


I am a bitter, petty Joe Doerksen fan, so naturally, I will find MacDonald elbowing him to death disturbing. 

But, I will say that Maz should start paying attention. This is the same guy who just let Yves Edwards pound on a dead Josh Thomson for a while after Edwards kicked his head off.


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Damone said:


> But, I will say that Maz should start paying attention. This is the same guy who just let Yves Edwards pound on a dead Josh Thomson for a while after Edwards kicked his head off.


Totally agree. Maz is responsible for most of the questionable calls I can remember in recent years...it is starting to add up.


----------



## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> Here's the fight guys!:
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x562dg_jason-mc-donald-vs-joe-doerksen_sport


yeah steve def paused. It wasn't Jason's fault he was doing his job



moldy said:


> I agree if the ref doesn't push you off you keep going. If he hadn't and by some miracle joe had got out and away this thread would have said.
> 
> *Jason macdonald is stupid for not finishing a guy when he had the chance*


Hahaha Agreed.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

southpaw447 said:


> yeah steve def paused. It wasn't Jason's fault he was doing his job


It was a miscommunication, but the taunt at the end was unnecessary.


----------



## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> It was a miscommunication, but the taunt at the end was unnecessary.


yeah but Joe and Jay had some bad blood before the fight. So I kinda understand why he did it.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

southpaw447 said:


> yeah but Joe and Jay had some bad blood before the fight. So I kinda understand why he did it.


Eh, I don't care for taunting. I believe firmly that what goes around, comes around. MacDonald beat Doerksen and that was really enough, but taunting him after beating him then calling him a "sore loser" infront of Canada, was in excess.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I agree Fedor>All however Doerkson talked a lot of shit after Macdonald beat him the first time so I oculd see why Macdonald wanted to rub it in.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> I agree Fedor>All however Doerkson talked a lot of shit after Macdonald beat him the first time so I oculd see why Macdonald wanted to rub it in.


I honestly hate shit-talkers, but I think when fighters stoop to the same level, they're no better.

One of my all-time favourite UFC moments was when Terry Martin taunted Chris Leben, then a few seconds later he was out-cold staring at the ceiling wondering WTF happened.

Karma baby, it's a bitch.


----------



## swellin (Dec 30, 2007)

Theirs a lot of bitchy people around here looking for an excuse to hate on anyone, its petty. Fact is Dana White would not give someone a 75 thousand dollar bonus if he was in the wrong. If he was wrong he would have been fined, or let go. Just like what has happened to other people. As for taunting its a ******* fight there adrenaline is pumping at an insanely high rate. And a lot can happen, they probably regret it, Or maybe they don't. Either way not a big fuckin deal we don't know the history between the two, for all we know they could really hate each other.


----------



## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

The one I put together, smaller though it may be, is from a wider angle and you can see Maz f**ked up.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

joey__stalin said:


> The one I put together, smaller though it may be, is from a wider angle and you can see Maz f**ked up.


Hey, while you're making .gifs, can you make one of Doerksen causing MacDonald to fall flat on his face from a leg-kick? lol


----------



## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

another question, how do you guys make these GIF's? Is there a particular program? I'm good on computers but haven't found a good GIF program. 

Could somebody please post in here, or PM me, with how you make them?


----------



## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

Fedor>all said:


> Hey, while you're making .gifs, can you make one of Doerksen causing MacDonald to fall flat on his face from a leg-kick? lol


I'll try heh, but it might be the same size as the other one, cause photobucket only allows file that are so big heh.

Here is a "thumbnail" image so to speak heh. Click links for larger images.









http://i30.tinypic.com/ix5uep.gif
or 
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn135/joey__stalin/UFC20.gif


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

joey__stalin said:


> I'll try heh, but it might be the same size as the other one, cause photobucket only allows file that are so big heh.
> 
> It's big so I'll just post a link to it heh
> http://i30.tinypic.com/ix5uep.gif
> ...


:laugh:

Thanks for that!


----------



## Ulio (May 31, 2007)

Ya i hate this shit but it happens alot and fighters sometimes provoke each other sometimes just to hype fight and when they fight it gets serious . If it dana though something was really wrong he would have fined i guess.


----------



## mma17 (Jun 4, 2007)

I'd rather a fight go on a little too long than be stopped early.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

mma17 said:


> I'd rather a fight go on a little too long than be stopped early.


Yeah, but you're not the guy getting his face smashed in lol.


----------



## VoiceOfThunder (Apr 23, 2007)

mma17 said:


> I'd rather a fight go on a little too long than be stopped early.


Hmm... I can hear John Mccain criticizes for that.


----------



## bail3yz (Apr 22, 2007)

Seems fine to me.. even if Jason knew he was out.. some fighters are pretty good at recovering from being out cold without people even being aware they were out. Ref didnt stop it.. Jason kept hitting.. I have no problem.

Imagine how retarded Jason would have felt if he stopped.. and Joe recovered, and the fight wasnt stopped there.


----------



## Amerikraut (Jan 26, 2008)

Granted, Jasons extra punches were that of excess, I always sight the Nog/Herring 3 fight for this issue. 

When nog was flash ko'd by herrings high kick, he stopped assuming the ref would call it...he didnt and Nog goes on to win a decision. That fight would have lined Herring up for a title shot. So for the most part i cant hate on a fighter continuing to strike until the referee clearly ends it. Sorry if this was already covererd, i didnt wanna sift through the last 10 pages. If Jason said himself that he thought the ref backed off from calling the fight, i think we can believe him. He was only doing his job and ensuring a victory. I find it hard to beleive he would throw in the extra punches just for the hell of it if he knew the fight was over.


----------



## Where'stheCrow? (Nov 28, 2007)

bail3yz said:


> Seems fine to me.. even if Jason knew he was out.. some fighters are pretty good at recovering from being out cold without people even being aware they were out. Ref didnt stop it.. Jason kept hitting.. I have no problem.
> 
> Imagine how retarded Jason would have felt if he stopped.. and Joe recovered, and the fight wasnt stopped there.


Yeah, like he was really going to recover from those blows. Give me a ******* break. This was uncalled for in my book, no matter how I try to reason it.


----------



## GarethUFC (Sep 12, 2007)

Alex_DeLarge said:


> And this is that kind of "love" I'm talking about. No, you didn't realize that because it didn't happen like that. Everyone knew what Penns intentions were, don't be a moron to think otherwise and try to persuade yourself into thinking that because it's foolish.


Rep... I total agree and its pissin me off the luv BJ gets... I cant stand him after the Jens fight..


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> to cause unnecessary damage to an opponent after they knew the fight was stopped...
> 
> disgusting


Seriously....are you really mentioning BJ in that group? I mean I know you hate the guy, but how much damage did that 1.5 secs really do in a choke hold. That at worst just would have made Pulver pass out. But he tapped so early there was no chance of that. BJ let go as soon as he realized he was being stopped. His eyes were closed and he was in a fight. I don't fault him for that. I didn't think the Babalu thing was as bad as the UFC made it out to be, but definitely deserved reprimand. I didn't see this one though.


----------



## Where'stheCrow? (Nov 28, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Seriously....are you really mentioning BJ in that group? I mean I know you hate the guy, but how much damage did that 1.5 secs really do in a choke hold. That at worst just would have made Pulver pass out. But he tapped so early there was no chance of that. BJ let go as soon as he realized he was being stopped. His eyes were closed and he was in a fight. I don't fault him for that. I didn't think the Babalu thing was as bad as the UFC made it out to be, but definitely deserved reprimand. I didn't see this one though.


I think that the Babalu thing was definately as bad as the UFC made it out to be. He looked the ref in his eyes as he put him to sleep. BJ is at fault for holding the choke late but I don't hold it against him because Pulver didn't have any problems with it. At least he didn't make Pulver go unconscious.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Where'stheCrow? said:


> I think that the Babalu thing was definately as bad as the UFC made it out to be. He looked the ref in his eyes as he put him to sleep. BJ is at fault for holding the choke late but I don't hold it against him because Pulver didn't have any problems with it. At least he didn't make Pulver go unconscious.


Yeah, you are right. i just rewatched it. Forgot how bad it was. I think that coupled with Babalu's out of ring behavior led to the UFC letting him go.


----------



## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Seriously....are you really mentioning BJ in that group? I mean I know you hate the guy, but how much damage did that 1.5 secs really do in a choke hold. That at worst just would have made Pulver pass out. But he tapped so early there was no chance of that. BJ let go as soon as he realized he was being stopped. His eyes were closed and he was in a fight. I don't fault him for that. I didn't think the Babalu thing was as bad as the UFC made it out to be, but definitely deserved reprimand. I didn't see this one though.


yeah for an RNC it takes on average 8 seconds for a person to pass out. BJ didn't even hold it on that long


----------



## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

Nobody remembers Royce vs Gordeau? heheh

But really, every athlete is trained to keep going until they hear the bell, horn, whistle ect. ect.


----------



## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

joey__stalin said:


> The one I put together, smaller though it may be, is from a wider angle and you can see Maz f**ked up.


Go on sherdog and watch Jason's new video he says it was Maz who actually fucked up and that the ref apologized later on for making "ANOTHER" mistake.


----------



## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

Does Canada have an atletic commission? If J-Mac did this shit in Neveda no doubt they would be all over his ass like Babalu. What kind of sanctioning body does Canada have if they have any at all?


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

for some reason gifs. are not running on my computer...anyone know what the problem might be??


----------



## Where'stheCrow? (Nov 28, 2007)

MagiK11 said:


> Go on sherdog and watch Jason's new video he says it was Maz who actually fucked up and that the ref apologized later on for making "ANOTHER" mistake.


Actually after seeing that one, I agree. It looks like he was going to stop it but then backed off and let it continue. Although, MacDonald could plainly see he was done.


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

southpaw447 said:


> yeah for an RNC it takes on average 8 seconds for a person to pass out. BJ didn't even hold it on that long


This is far from the truth. 8 seconds? Are you crazy? Joe Rogan passed a guy out on a radioshow in under 3 seconds man, it's all different depending on a multitude of factors.


----------



## ozz525 (Oct 5, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> This is far from the truth. 8 seconds? Are you crazy? Joe Rogan passed a guy out on a radioshow in under 3 seconds man, it's all different depending on a multitude of factors.


Agreed it could take anywhere from 3 to 6 seconds, if you are really pulling on it hard. Sometimes it looks like it takes longer because guys are taking a lot of presure off by pulling the arm off.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> This is far from the truth. 8 seconds? Are you crazy? Joe Rogan passed a guy out on a radioshow in under 3 seconds man, it's all different depending on a multitude of factors.


Exactly! You can put someone out almost instantly with an RNC if you lock it up correctly, it really depends on the person a lot of the time though. Fighters, especially wrestlers are harder to choke out because of the muscles in their necks.


----------



## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> This is far from the truth. 8 seconds? Are you crazy? Joe Rogan passed a guy out on a radioshow in under 3 seconds man, it's all different depending on a multitude of factors.


thats why I said on average, numb-nuts.

Obviously a person who hasn't trained in BJJ a day in their life wouldn't last as long as someone who has trained and knows how to defend the choke


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

southpaw447 said:


> thats why I said on average, numb-nuts.
> 
> Obviously a person who hasn't trained in BJJ a day in their life wouldn't last as long as someone who has trained and knows how to defend the choke


Where do you get your numbers from? Just out of curiosity. :confused02:


----------



## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> Where do you get your numbers from? Just out of curiosity. :confused02:


My BJJ coach. I've been training with him for about 3 months now.

He trained at the Bull Pen in Hawaii and trained alongside BJ Penn at his facility.

He lives in Maryland and recently moved back and teaches at a facility in PA where I live and his facility in Maryland.

His name is Justin and a friend of Steve Byrnes from TUF 7 whom he was stationed with in the USMC.

He told me those numbers. I'll believe him before a keyboard warrior.

No Offense

He's also a Brown Belt under Relson Gracie


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

southpaw447 said:


> My BJJ coach. I've been training with him for about 3 months now.
> 
> He trained at the Bull Pen in Hawaii and trained alongside BJ Penn at his facility.
> 
> ...


So why did you leave Sherdog and come back here again? :confused02: And you've been training for a measley 3 months and now I'm a keyboard warrior? I don't understand that.


----------



## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> So why did you leave Sherdog and come back here again? :confused02: And you've been training for a measley 3 months and now I'm a keyboard warrior? I don't understand that.


:sarcastic09: What a response. 

I'm just relaying what he told me and bringing it into the conversation. If you want to get upset about it thats your choice.

If you want to take my post out of context thats cool too but that just shows your immaturity. I said ON AVERAGE!

Can you read?

And the obvious universal response when you have nothing else intelligent to say is either to call me a Troll or tell me to go back to Sherdog (both of which you did)

Maybe you've been told something different.

And I never said I've been training for 3 months. I've been training with HIM for 3 months. Again maybe you should learn how to read before you bang away on your keyboard


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

southpaw447 said:


> :sarcastic09: What a response.
> 
> I'm just relaying what he told me and bringing it into the conversation. If you want to get upset about it thats your choice.
> 
> ...


Hey man

I really like the way you write.

It's really sick!!

:dunno:


----------



## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> Hey man
> 
> I really like the way you write.
> 
> ...


maybe you are the one who should be going to Sherdog. No intelligence in your posts. You'll fit right in:thumbsup:


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

southpaw447 said:


> maybe you are the one who should be going to Sherdog. No intelligence in your posts. You'll fit right in:thumbsup:


Coming from the guy defending Bj Penn for holding onto his choke and claiming "it wasn't dangerous." And it's funny how I respond to your post then INSTANTLY 3 other people post and agree with me, yet I'm the one who should go to sherdog. I'm done responding to you b/c you're annoying and obviously ill-informed about how long it takes for a human being to be choken unconscious. Go train more or something


----------



## TeamPunishment5 (Oct 24, 2006)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANYWAY, was there ever any bad blood between jason mcdonald and that guy?

forgot his name....


----------



## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

TeamPunishment5 said:


> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANYWAY, was there ever any bad blood between jason mcdonald and that guy?
> 
> forgot his name....


yeah Joe Basically said that because Jason couldn't hang with Okami and Franklin that he didn't belong in the UFC. Plus they already fought once and Jason won


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

southpaw447 said:


> My BJJ coach. I've been training with him for about 3 months now.
> 
> He trained at the Bull Pen in Hawaii and trained alongside BJ Penn at his facility.
> 
> ...


Fair enough, thanks for the response. I don't think it's necessary to call anyone a "keyboard warrior", or "numb nuts" though. :dunno:


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> Fair enough, thanks for the response. I don't think it's necessary to call anyone a "keyboard warrior", or "numb nuts" though. :dunno:


Ya especially wukkadb, because that basically means you're talking shit to Fedor>all too, since we are actually long lost brothers seperated at birth....


----------



## Breadfan (Jan 3, 2008)

wukkadb said:


> you're annoying and obviously ill-informed about how long it takes for a human being to be choken unconscious. Go train more or something


Ha. 

After the bell holds (and hits) if intentional are lame. Fighters that do things like that are like school in summertime.



*No Class.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> Ya especially wukkadb, because that basically means you're talking shit to Fedor>all too, since we are actually long lost brothers seperated at birth....


Ig-f*cking-Zactly!

If wukka's a "numb-nutted keyboard warrior", then by God, so am I!


----------



## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

southpaw447 said:


> thats why I said on average, numb-nuts.
> 
> Obviously a person who hasn't trained in BJJ a day in their life wouldn't last as long as someone who has trained and knows how to defend the choke


I meant to give you just a warning, but the 2 points will be gone in a month or so anyway. Why resort to namecalling when all he did was disagree with what you said? C'mon man.


----------



## Breadfan (Jan 3, 2008)

southpaw447 said:


> thats why I said on average, numb-nuts.
> 
> Obviously a person who hasn't trained in BJJ a day in their life wouldn't last as long as someone who has trained and knows how to defend the choke


Don't worry, I got points for talking about Shoguns_nuts too much  The points are long gone by now, but the little red dot and the description will haunt me forever.


----------



## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

vancitypimp said:


> In that same interview he said that the ref kind of jumped in, then hesitated so he kept punching until he actually stopped he fight for real.


This is something that's getting overlooked in all the uproar. I'm glad you made the point. Is it an excuse? No, but it shows what can happen when a ref doesn't dive right in there.


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Not sure if this has been posted yet:


----------



## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> Not sure if this has been posted yet:


I know it's a joke, but there's some truth in it. This isn't Babalu vs. David Heath. It's more like James Irvin vs. Hector Ramirez.


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

vandalian said:


> I know it's a joke, but there's some truth in it. This isn't Babalu vs. David Heath. It's more like James Irvin vs. Hector Ramirez.


If you watch only the ref and not the fight it looks a lot different and a lot more like Maz's fault and not MacDonalds.


----------



## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)




----------



## MetalMunkey (Oct 14, 2006)

Anyone have a gif of Lawler-Trigg?? Cause lawler knocks out Trigg and while Trigg is crumpling to the floor Robbie gives him one last one. Prolly because Trigg gave him a kiss at the weigh-ins.


----------



## bail3yz (Apr 22, 2007)

Where'stheCrow? said:


> Yeah, like he was really going to recover from those blows. Give me a ******* break. This was uncalled for in my book, no matter how I try to reason it.


It wasnt uncalled for.. It's not Jason's job to judge when to stop punching.. thats what the refs there for. 

And yes, he could have easily recovered fast if Jason stopped... how many times have you a stoppage.. when it was clear the guy was out.. he buckled.. he was done.. then instantly after the stoppage he gets up and protests it? Even tho everyone knew he was out.. 

The only reason it looks bad is because the ref leans in like hes going to stop it.. but then he doesnt..




vandalian said:


>



This is another good example.. what was Irvin supposed to do? Imo it was pretty obvious the ref wasnt going to stop it, if he would have, he'd have done it already.. You can see Irvin watching the ref as he walks away.. once he realizes the ref isnt going to stop it.. he continues to fight.


----------



## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

You have a point, but Maz obviously was trying to stop it. Refs dont come in and get between fighters when they aren't going to stop it. I can see how he'd think he wasnt stopping it though, it was a half assed stoppage on Maz's part.


----------



## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

he should get a deduction in his pay. those kind of things only gives fuel to the fire for those trying to stop the sport


----------



## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

How is this thread still going?


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

MetalMunkey said:


> Anyone have a gif of Lawler-Trigg?? Cause lawler knocks out Trigg and while Trigg is crumpling to the floor Robbie gives him one last one. Prolly because Trigg gave him a kiss at the weigh-ins.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

vandalian said:


>


lol, gotta love the Presidential wave after knocking Hector down. Really, that position is hard to call for a ref. If Hector was on his back, then I'm sure Mario would have gotten in between the action. However, Hector was resting on his arms, which shows he did have control over his body, and wasn't completely out. Doerksen's head was bouncing off the mat, and he wasn't defending himself or trying to improve his position.

Mazzagatti is a badass, he doesn't have to call fights. He screws the man.


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## Breadfan (Jan 3, 2008)

vandalian said:


>


Gosh wouldn't that have sucked if he'd kicked him in the head on accident? getting DQed after a near KO...


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## Where'stheCrow? (Nov 28, 2007)

bail3yz said:


> It wasnt uncalled for.. It's not Jason's job to judge when to stop punching.. thats what the refs there for.
> 
> And yes, he could have easily recovered fast if Jason stopped... how many times have you a stoppage.. when it was clear the guy was out.. he buckled.. he was done.. then instantly after the stoppage he gets up and protests it? Even tho everyone knew he was out..
> 
> The only reason it looks bad is because the ref leans in like hes going to stop it.. but then he doesnt.


After seeing the wider angle gif, I had changed my mind. And no, I don't see him recovering after those elbows like you said could happen. 

And whoever neg repped me for saying that it was uncalled for, get a life. What you wrote in your neg rep made you look like a little bitch. Pop a midol and change your pad *****.


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## MetalMunkey (Oct 14, 2006)

wukkadb said:


>


Yeah that's it, don't kiss Robbie.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Davisty69 said:


> I've only seen the GIF, is the actual fight that much different?
> 
> And Damone, I'm not saying that holding a choke longer than necessary is nothing. I'm simply saying that it is more dangerous to throw strikes at a opponent who isn't defending than to hold a choke for a few seconds to long.


Yes, I saw the gif and was like WTF J mac then I watched the fight and was like well now dont I look like a ass, heh.


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## The Wizard (Dec 31, 2006)

At least know what your talking about when you make a comment...........Jason didn't hit him after the fight was stopped,the ref told him to keep going,watch the fight again.


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## SideWays40 (Feb 15, 2008)

How old is this thread lol?? who wud bring it back to life -_-


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## mratch19 (Nov 19, 2007)

SideWays40 said:


> How old is this thread lol?? who wud bring it back to life -_-


i was thinking the same thing, wtf lol


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## Lightfall (Oct 15, 2006)

All I know is Demian Maia will **** his ass.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Lightfall said:


> All I know is Demian Maia will **** his ass.


Yeah, I hate Jason MacDonald.. I think he's a ginger-douche.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

I remember watching that fight, and if I'm correct, after those elbows were thrown and Maz jumped in the first time, he didn't call the fight. That's why Mac threw some more punches, then Maz officially stopped it.

I'm gonna try to find it again, so I'm not 100% positive.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)




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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Damone said:


>


I love a good ol' Okami ass-whompin'!


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## rdrush (Mar 5, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> Yeah, I hate Jason MacDonald.. I think he's a ginger-douche.


He is from my home town, so I know he is a ginger douche. He is one of those guys that will walk into a pub and think that any girl would love to blow him because he is such hot shit. This girl I used to work with was telling me about when he was trying to hit on her, and with a wife and 3 kids at home. What a pos. He has a nice gym though.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

rdrush said:


> He is from my home town, so I know he is a ginger douche. He is one of those guys that will walk into a pub and think that any girl would love to blow him because he is such hot shit. This girl I used to work with was telling me about when he was trying to hit on her, and with a wife and 3 kids at home. What a pos. He has a nice gym though.


I could totally see him being that kind of guy, the "I'm in the UFC so you better treat me like gold" attitude.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

well maia will sub him so...

but anyways didt macdonald say something about the judge admitting to making a mistake ?


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## Zender (Dec 15, 2006)

Fedor>all said:


> I could totally see him being that kind of guy, the "I'm in the UFC so you better treat me like gold" attitude.


Exactly how I've seen him, & why I've always disliked the guy. He's someone I've always liked to see getting dismantled & this crap just proves how much of a waste of an orgasm he really is.


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## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

I hope Maia eats this sh*t head alive


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## Suvaco (Mar 31, 2007)

enceledus said:


> I hope Maia eats this sh*t head alive


He will. Maia is the man.


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

Yeah, this was a pretty disrespectful thing to do. I don't even think JMac was punished for this.


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## Bob Pataki (Jun 16, 2007)

I honestly think Maz hesitated there, I understand why people don't like this but I think it was fair game...I am pissed though :dunno:

That said, I don't particularly like MacDonald so war Maia :thumb02:


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## tearfromthered (Sep 28, 2007)

I dnt care I still like the guy, hes a very cool guy. He pounded this guys face even more cause all the shit he was talking, do it wasnt necessary I dont agree with what he did. I still like babalu andbj an mcdonald, when u fight with emotion u tend to sometimes get carried away.


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## SuzukS (Nov 11, 2006)

6sidedlie said:


> Please put him and Bisping together.


He's fighting Demian Maia next, so it'll be nice to see MacDonald humiliated in the sole aspect of MMA which he is actually considered 'decent'.


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

SuzukS said:


> He's fighting Demian Maia next, so it'll be nice to see MacDonald humiliated in the sole aspect of MMA which he is actually considered 'decent'.



just a random dumb thought by me.... but since Jason is well... not particularly liked because of this incident... if someone does it back to him.... say Damien doesnt let go of say an armbar after the tap, and end up damaging Jasons arm... do we chalk it up to justice? or hate Damien for it?


personally in that scenario, id say it was deserved.... but still way unneccessary..... i wouldnt HATE Damien, but i would lose alot of respect.


just something fun to discuss, have fun with it!


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## MoopsiePuffs (Jan 16, 2007)

Maia gassed like f*ck against Herman but hopefully he will F*CK this prick up rather than catch him in one of his artistic subs.


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## Zenhalo (Sep 9, 2006)

So.... is Sobral ever going to be able to come back to the UFC>


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## MoopsiePuffs (Jan 16, 2007)

Zenhalo said:


> So.... is Sobral ever going to be able to come back to the UFC>


yeah Dana even said with a couple of wins under his belt he will be invited back, he was basically made and example of but his return is almost a certainty unless he throws a wobbly against Whitehead and future lesser known opponents.


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## _JB_ (May 30, 2007)

Terry77 said:


> Kid Yamamoto (I think) is still the worse one I`ve seen.


What did he do and against whom?

Gif? Or a link?


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## The Wizard (Dec 31, 2006)

JuggNuttz said:


> just a random dumb thought by me.... but since Jason is well... not particularly liked because of this incident... if someone does it back to him.... say Damien doesnt let go of say an armbar after the tap, and end up damaging Jasons arm... do we chalk it up to justice? or hate Damien for it?
> 
> 
> personally in that scenario, id say it was deserved.... but still way unneccessary..... i wouldnt HATE Damien, but i would lose alot of respect.
> ...




I would say you guys have no idea what your talking about.I was at UFC83,seen the fight and talked to Jason shortly after it,put the blame where it belongs,on the ref.Hoping to see anyone get permanently damaged shows your lack of knowledge of the sport.

First and foremost....where's your hometown?Jason is a family man and a great father,he would have no need to hit on some pig in a bar,he has a super hot wife.It's clear to see,guys like you don't like to see people get ahead in life.If you don't know Jason...don't spread bs and lies.............get a life.


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## Robb2140 (Oct 21, 2006)

I've never been a fan of Jmack, He showed some nice groundwork and was able to beat Herman and Leban back2back creating some hype over him.

After that he was whomped by Franklin and Okami, from what I saw in those 2 fights he gave up and showed a lack of heart.

I hope Maia beats him brutally:thumbsup:


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Wasn't it Mazzagattis fault that Jason kept elbowing Joe? He went in to stop it but then decided not to but then decided to immediately after.

I don't think Jason will get passed Maia.


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

**JB** said:


> What did he do and against whom?
> 
> Gif? Or a link?


He pretty much had this guy on queer street (gnp) and the ref stepped in to stop it. He pretty much ignored the ref and continued to pound on the guy before the corner man stepped in to pull him off.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

**JB** said:


> What did he do and against whom?
> 
> Gif? Or a link?


Here ya go...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLlwjIbT5F4&feature=related


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## _JB_ (May 30, 2007)

vandalian said:


> Here ya go...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLlwjIbT5F4&feature=related


Thanks Vand..

Wow thats one pissed off man and i agree, thats as bad as i've seen.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Yeah, Kid Yamamoto is a dick. A talented dick, who has a hot wife, but a dick nonetheless.

MacDonald just isn't that interesting to me. He's like Rory Singer with a better ground game.


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## Lightfall (Oct 15, 2006)

JuggNuttz said:


> just a random dumb thought by me.... but since Jason is well... not particularly liked because of this incident... if someone does it back to him.... say Damien doesnt let go of say an armbar after the tap, and end up damaging Jasons arm... do we chalk it up to justice? or hate Damien for it?


"thinks about it for 2 seconds", justice, very sweet poetic justice.


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## csefcik (Jan 9, 2007)

Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.


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## SuzukS (Nov 11, 2006)

JuggNuttz said:


> just a random dumb thought by me.... but since Jason is well... not particularly liked because of this incident... if someone does it back to him.... say Damien doesnt let go of say an armbar after the tap, and end up damaging Jasons arm... do we chalk it up to justice? or hate Damien for it?
> 
> 
> personally in that scenario, id say it was deserved.... but still way unneccessary..... i wouldnt HATE Damien, but i would lose alot of respect.
> ...


I, like pretty much everyone else who knows Demian would be incredibly surprised if he did that. Needless to say, I would still lose a bit of respect for him, yes it's 'justice' in a way but that would make Demian no better than MacDonald.


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

The Wizard said:


> I would say you guys have no idea what your talking about.I was at UFC83,seen the fight and talked to Jason shortly after it,put the blame where it belongs,on the ref.Hoping to see anyone get permanently damaged shows your lack of knowledge of the sport.





The Wizard said:


> First and foremost....where's your hometown?Jason is a family man and a great father,he would have no need to hit on some pig in a bar,he has a super hot wife.It's clear to see,guys like you don't like to see people get ahead in life.If you don't know Jason...don't spread bs and lies.............get a life.


if you read my post, i never said it should be done to him, i was asking others if it was done back to him how would they feel? and infact in my thought of it i said " id say it was deserved.... but still way unneccessary....." and said id lose respect for Damien.

and to your super hot wife reasoning... i know many guys with super hot wives... yet they still hit on and **** "bar Pigs" i even questioned one on that, he has the hottest wife ever, yet he **** around... i asked him why.. his reply was.. "im an asshole...what can i say...." so it doesnt matter how hot a girlfriend or wife is...if some guy wants to get laid all he needs is a willing participant... and i would not put it past J-mac to go with it!


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Damone said:


> Yeah, Kid Yamamoto is a dick. A talented dick, who has a hot wife, but a dick nonetheless.
> 
> MacDonald just isn't that interesting to me. He's like Rory Singer with a better ground game.


I heard that Katsuta disrespected Kid's wife and family prior to that fight, which would probably explain why Yamamoto went nuts. It's not a valid excuse for causing excessive harm to his opponent, but it does explain why he acted the way he did.


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## pauly_j (Nov 28, 2006)

Some people have mentioned it but most seem to be ignoring it. This was not Jason Mcdonalds fault. He put him out, stopped and showed the ref he was out, the ref said keep going, he did, the ref stopped it. That's why he's like 'wtf make your mind up!'

There are lots of other angles that show it better and an interview about it.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Fedor>all said:


> I heard that Katsuta disrespected Kid's wife and family prior to that fight, which would probably explain why Yamamoto went nuts. It's not a valid excuse for causing excessive harm to his opponent, but it does explain why he acted the way he did.


This I did not know and sort of makes sense, seeing as Kid really looked like he wanted to kill the guy.


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## Meshuggeth (May 26, 2008)

I've seen a couple of Palhares's fights and he barely gives his opponent a second to tap, he immediately busts his opponent's leg. I think that's a little classless.


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## Lightfall (Oct 15, 2006)

Meshuggeth said:


> I've seen a couple of Palhares's fights and he barely gives his opponent a second to tap, he immediately busts his opponent's leg. I think that's a little classless.


"cough"Frank Mir"cough"


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

It was only the refs fault. I would have the same or worse in that situation, the ref did not clearly stop the fight. 

In a fight you arent the least bit concerned for your opponent, control is the difference between fighter and murderer.


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## Suvaco (Mar 31, 2007)

Meshuggeth said:


> I've seen a couple of Palhares's fights and he barely gives his opponent a second to tap, he immediately busts his opponent's leg. I think that's a little classless.


I don't see what's classless about that. If you don't crank the submission as hard as you can, your opponent could get out of the submission more easily. If he did the same thing in training with his partners, it would be classless, but his opponent's safety is not his concern.


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## Meshuggeth (May 26, 2008)

I think you should give your opponent the chance to tap. The goal is not to bust their arms or legs. If you've got a submission on tight and your opponent isn't tapping and its been 15 seconds, then I understand. This is just my opinion. To each their own.


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## dvonfunk (Oct 31, 2007)

6sidedlie said:


> Please put him and Bisping together.


That's a fight that I can envision the UFC putting together in the near future. Maybe even right after the Leben fight. 

Macdonald's no chump, but on paper, I don't think he's a real threat to Bisping. Especially if Bisping were to keep it standing.

I think they'll have Bisping totally clean out the mid-level 185ers before setting up what I'm sure most people consider a "dream fight" with A. Silva.


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