# Fedor's legacy will take a major hit if he doesn't face Overeem imo



## Coosh (Sep 25, 2009)

Overeem just basically called him out in front of the entire world. There's no turning back now. 

Ducking in MMA is absolutely not acceptable. That shit belongs in boxing. 

He's already fighting in the second place org, not fighting the champ of that org is absolute bs.

People can blame M1 all they want but all of Fedors actions and statements point to the fact that he's 100% behind them and even calling the shots. He's a grown man, whatever management he has aligned himself with is his responsibility.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

Well after the Werdum fight there is no one really left but Overeem,and after the Overeem fight his contract with SF ends so hopefully UFC.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

He should fight Overeem. And hell, even if he loses, he's still the best heavyweight of all time.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

vandalian said:


> He should fight Overeem. And hell, even if he loses, he's still the best heavyweight of all time.


I agree he's the best of all time at HW, but if he loses obviously he's not the best anymore. I don't think not fighting Overeem really hurts Fedor, if he then goes and fights top level competition in the UFC.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

rockybalboa25 said:


> I agree he's the best of all time at HW, but if he loses obviously he's not the best anymore. I don't think not fighting Overeem really hurts Fedor, if he then goes and fights top level competition in the UFC.


I still believe he's better off fighting him than not.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Fedor needs to IMO.


When the hell have we actually seen the champion call out a fighter after a victory???

Usually the Champion is accepting challenges in his victory speech.... 

Overeem went right after Fedor with the belt in his hand in his post fight interview ... no denying he wants a crack at the Emporer and he's yelling it from the roof tops... 

Fedor shouldn't duck this.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Fedor needs to IMO.
> 
> 
> When the hell have we actually seen the champion call out a fighter after a victory???
> ...



Yep, it's crazy to think about it. This is the way I like it. People who talk shit about Fedor and think can beat him should go after him and not the other way around.


I hope this fight happens


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

If Fedor does not fight Overeem it will mean nothing more than he ducks fights. Who else can he fight if he beats Werdum? Giant Silva...give me a break. Its all on Fedor. But I think they will fight.


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## NikosCC (May 16, 2007)

I don't believe Fedor will duck this one im sure he will accept it and im a huge fan of Overeem but Fedor will woop him as well.. hes that good.


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

NikosCC said:


> I don't believe Fedor will duck this one im sure he will accept it and im a huge fan of Overeem but Fedor will woop him as well.. hes that good.


Agree with whooping


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

NikosCC said:


> I don't believe Fedor will duck this one im sure he will accept it and im a huge fan of Overeem but Fedor will woop him as well.. hes that good.


not anymore! Fedor was that good yes. But a guy like Overeem just reached his prime and I believe Fedor knows, that he most likely will lose too.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Fedor has to fight Overeem.
I think he will beat Werdum. And after that there is no one realy for him, except Overeem.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

fedor's legacy has been taking hits ever since he refused to sign with UFC and will continue to do so.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Well hes been the best HW fighter in the world for 10 years running.. C'mon

Maybe its time the greatest of all time gets dethroned. While he's still on top I want to be the first to say he's lost more than a step in these past years. He doesn't train the way he used to, even his camp says he trains light these days. There was a drive he had when he was younger, it seems he's lost that. 

But how couldn't he? Win after win after win, how long could you go on just beating the best in the world again and again. He's been doing it for 10 years, he's fought 5 UFC heavy weight champions and destroyed them all. 

I want him to fight overeem, and I want him to retire after overeem beats him.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Coosh said:


> Overeem just basically called him out in front of the entire world. There's no turning back now.
> 
> Ducking in MMA is absolutely not acceptable. That shit belongs in boxing.
> 
> ...


A hit more than it already has? Fedor or been ducking competition for years. His can collection is most unimpressive. He's worse than Mayweather.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

xeberus said:


> Maybe its time the greatest of all time gets dethroned. While he's still on top I want to be the first to say he's lost more than a step in these past years. He doesn't train the way he used to, even his camp says he trains light these days. There was a drive he had when he was younger, it seems he's lost that.


Maybe Ive taken this comment wrong but Im going to have to disagree with ya on this one. Here is why:

Out of his 10 last bouts going back to April of 05 he has been to the 3rd rd one time and that was with "In the PRIME" Mirko and in a ring and that went to the 3rd in 2005 since then 8 victories with 2 going to the 2nd Coleman in 2006 going 1min deep into the 2nd and Rdogers his last bout going almost 2mins deep. Other then that its all 1st rd FINISHES ! Not this grind out a wrestling take down decision or a dance around the cage cause I think Im to good shit that the other P4P RUNNER ups do! 

But yes everyone is human age does take its toll and the longer he goes on winning the closer he gets to finally possibly losing . Honestly I think if anyone is gonna beat Fedor its AO. Hes a huge well rounded fighter . BUT if Fedor destroys him I dont think there is anyone left out there that could beat him decisively.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

ZENKI1 said:


> Maybe Ive taken this comment wrong but Im going to have to disagree with ya on this one. Here is why:
> 
> Out of his 10 last bouts going back to April of 05 he has been to the 3rd rd one time and that was with "In the PRIME" Mirko and in a ring and that went to the 3rd in 2005 since then 8 victories with 2 going to the 2nd Coleman in 2006 going 1min deep into the 2nd and Rdogers his last bout going almost 2mins deep. Other then that its all 1st rd FINISHES ! Not this grind out a wrestling take down decision or a dance around the cage cause I think Im to good shit that the other P4P RUNNER ups do!
> 
> But yes everyone is human age does take its toll and the longer he goes on winning the closer he gets to finally possibly losing . Honestly I think if anyone is gonna beat Fedor its AO. Hes a huge well rounded fighter . BUT if Fedor destroys him I dont think there is anyone left out there that could beat him decisively.


Whoa when did Overeem become that good? He's good, but he's not a top 5 HW. I don't think beating Overeem decisively says anything other than he can beat Overeem. Lesnar and Velasquez are on a different level and different fighters. Fedor has never faced great wrestlers of that size with that amount of speed and strengh. They simply didn't exist until Brock and Cain came along. A win over Overeem means very little as to how he would fair in the UFC.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Can we just have a Brett Rogers moment and be real. 

Fedor was at the top of the game a few years back as the sport was evolving (just like the Gracies, just like Shamrocks, etc.). He fought the stars of the time. He then took a turn and decided to avoid the up and coming evolving talent, and managed to prolong his undefeated record for another 2-3 years. That's where his star died. He's now getting ready to fight Werdum, after Rogers, AA and Sylvia (all proven cans compared to the modern talent). Had he not ducked good fighters I would have much respect for him. He would have some losses on his record, but would still be in interesting fights, and picking up wins as well. He would have the respect of the mma community. He has chosen instead to protect his record and be deified by a small group of cult followers who will defend his every move.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

rockybalboa25 said:


> Whoa when did Overeem become that good? He's good, but he's not a top 5 HW. I don't think beating Overeem decisively says anything other than he can beat Overeem. Lesnar and Velasquez are on a different level and different fighters. Fedor has never faced great wrestlers of that size with that amount of speed and strengh. They simply didn't exist until Brock and Cain came along. A win over Overeem means very little as to how he would fair in the UFC.


I dont see a comparsion there. Technically speaking no he isnt ranked top 5 . With his win Ive seen him placed at8 but I can see him running through pretty much anyone listed above him .. . Ufc Hype machine vs actual comp. I dont over look Overeems RECENT acomplishments in K-1 against world class top comp. What has Cain and Lesnar done lately in there arts? WWE doenst count. Lesnar's wrestling credits are impressive but also YEARS ago. Overeem has found a good weight for his frame and has come together now and is hitting his prime.. The man is a force to be reckoned with these days... 


I get so tired of the idea that if your not in the ufc you cant be any good.. :confused05:


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

As it was mentioned earlier, the champion issued a challenge here, and that's unseen. This fight would be an insane drew, taken the circumstances. Fedor's on a tough call here.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

ZENKI1 said:


> ...I get so tired of the idea that if your not in the ufc you cant be any good.. :confused05:


How long have you had this issue with truth?


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Calminian said:


> How long have you had this issue with truth?


Genius^^ :thumb02:


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## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

Calminian said:


> Can we just have a Brett Rogers moment and be real.
> 
> Fedor was at the top of the game a few years back as the sport was evolving (just like the Gracies, just like Shamrocks, etc.). He fought the stars of the time. He then took a turn and decided to avoid the up and coming evolving talent, and managed to prolong his undefeated record for another 2-3 years. That's where his star died. He's now getting ready to fight Werdum, after Rogers, AA and Sylvia (all proven cans compared to the modern talent). Had he not ducked good fighters I would have much respect for him. He would have some losses on his record, but would still be in interesting fights, and picking up wins as well. *He would have the respect of the mma community. He has chosen instead to protect his record and be deified by a small group of cult followers* who will defend his every move.


Yes, the small group of cult followers...SI, ESPN, nearly every MMA analyst and fighter pay respects to Fedor. If you don't, that's your choice, but your in the small cult of Fedor haters from my perspective


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Freiermuth said:


> Yes, the small group of cult followers...SI, ESPN, nearly every MMA analyst and fighter pay respects to Fedor. If you don't, that's your choice, but your in the small cult of Fedor haters from my perspective


That's the unfortunately thing. While most of the mma world does not have Fedor as the #1 HW, the establishment does—Sherdog etc. 

And I hate to burst your bubble but even this will be changing, as even they are starting to see the light. On MMA live just last week, even Franklin McNeal acknowledge Fedor will be slipping in his HW rankings due to fighting weaker competition. In fact both him and Florian agreed on this point. 

But yes, fedor, at the moment, still has the establishment in his pocket.


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

I roll my eyes hard everytime I hear about this so called "UFC hype machine". It's like stating that Pujols is just apart of the MLB hype machine or Crosby is in the NHL hype machine. I got to put some numbers together and do an article debunking this absurd myth. Just haters regardless but I at least can make them look stupid. The UFC's repuatation of having the best talent in the UFC certainly won't be hurt when its .500 stars get immediate title shots(Hendo) and challenge the orgs best HW(Werdum)

I guess it was the hype machine that left Werdum streched on the mat?

No that'd be an evolving division, and signing prospects and fighters who are apart of elite camps of the best fighters in the world.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

Dana should get an applause


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## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

Calminian said:


> That's the unfortunately thing. While most of the mma world does not have Fedor as the #1 HW, the establishment does—Sherdog etc.
> 
> And I hate to burst your bubble but even this will be changing, as even they are starting to see the light. On MMA live just last week, even Franklin McNeal acknowledge Fedor will be slipping in his HW rankings due to fighting weaker competition. In fact both him and Florian agreed on this point.
> 
> But yes, fedor, at the moment, still has the establishment in his pocket.


I do agree that he is slipping so I'd like to keep my bubble intact for a while longer please 

I'm just saying he is still a great fighter and there are some very outspoken people on this forum who take shots at Fedor, his accomplishments, and his fans frequently. Sure some of the fans seem to deify Fedor, but that goes with any sport/athlete that I've ever followed.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Freiermuth said:


> I do agree that he is slipping so I'd like to keep my bubble intact for a while longer please
> 
> I'm just saying he is still a great fighter and there are some very outspoken people on this forum who take shots at Fedor, his accomplishments, and his fans frequently. Sure some of the fans seem to deify Fedor, but that goes with any sport/athlete that I've ever followed.


The blame for that falls solely on Fedor himself. He's the one that chose to preserve his record rather than fighting the best. No fighter should be respected for that.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

ZENKI1 said:


> I dont see a comparsion there. Technically speaking no he isnt ranked top 5 . With his win Ive seen him placed at8 but I can see him running through pretty much anyone listed above him .. . Ufc Hype machine vs actual comp. I dont over look Overeems RECENT acomplishments in K-1 against world class top comp. What has Cain and Lesnar done lately in there arts? WWE doenst count. Lesnar's wrestling credits are impressive but also YEARS ago. Overeem has found a good weight for his frame and has come together now and is hitting his prime.. The man is a force to be reckoned with these days...
> 
> 
> I get so tired of the idea that if your not in the ufc you cant be any good.. :confused05:


Are you asking what they have done in wrestling lately? Because that's just stupid. Who cares what you do in Kickboxing. It doesn't have anything to do with mma. Jame ToneyLesnar's physical skills are amazing. Lesnar hasn't had any wins lately due to his illness, but he did beat Mir. That is one more win over legitimate ranked HW than Overeem has in his whole career. Velasquez is the same with a win over NOG. Overeem has never really beaten any top level HW. You don't have to be in the UFC to be good, but if you aren't in the UFC you probably aren't facing top level competition. So you are definitely unproven. Fedor proved himself in PRIDE.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

Overeem is good and he beat Rogers badly, but the fact that he threw down Rogers like ragdoll whereas Fedor couldn't and the fight was over that soon doesn't mean much, really. Fedor is much smaller and he beat Rogers using purely his skills and he's been doing this for years. Overeem is much bigger than Fedor, so in that aspect for him it was easier. Now, Overeem, of course, is different now than he used to be, but he has to "prove his worth" by beating some real names in MMA HW division. Now, most of fans remember Overeem as the guy who got beaten twice by Shogun (LHW), twice by Nogueira (LHW). Even Sergei returned and avenged his previous loss by delivering first round knockout. 5 losses in the first round is a lot if you ask me. 

It wasn't much about Overeem as it was about Rogers who was proved to be just another Houston Alexander. There was a moment in his fight with Fedor when Fedor could deliver the similar kicks to the face he landed on Goodridge if the fight was under PRIDE rules (Fedor thought about that you could clearly notice that on the video, but he remembered where he was). Rogers relied too much on his size advantage which is why he lasted so long with Emelianenko and so little with Overeem.

Fedor has everything he needs to defeat Alistair and he will find a way to do so if they fight.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

rockybalboa25 said:


> Are you asking what they have done in wrestling lately? Because that's just stupid. Who cares what you do in Kickboxing. It doesn't have anything to do with mma. Jame ToneyLesnar's physical skills are amazing. Lesnar hasn't had any wins lately due to his illness, but he did beat Mir. That is one more win over legitimate ranked HW than Overeem has in his whole career. Velasquez is the same with a win over NOG. Overeem has never really beaten any top level HW. You don't have to be in the UFC to be good, but if you aren't in the UFC you probably aren't facing top level competition. So you are definitely unproven. Fedor proved himself in PRIDE.


My comment has gone completely over your head..


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

The_Senator said:


> Overeem is good and he beat Rogers badly, but the fact that he threw down Rogers like ragdoll whereas Fedor couldn't and the fight was over that soon doesn't mean much, really. Fedor is much smaller and he beat Rogers using purely his skills and he's been doing this for years. Overeem is much bigger than Fedor, so in that aspect for him it was easier. Now, Overeem, of course, is different now than he used to be, but he has to "prove his worth" by beating some real names in MMA HW division. Now, most of fans remember Overeem as the guy who got beaten twice by Shogun (LHW), twice by Nogueira (LHW). Even Sergei returned and avenged his previous loss by delivering first round knockout. 5 losses in the first round is a lot if you ask me.
> 
> It wasn't much about Overeem as it was about Rogers who was proved to be just another Houston Alexander. There was a moment in his fight with Fedor when Fedor could deliver the similar kicks to the face he landed on Goodridge if the fight was under PRIDE rules (Fedor thought about that you could clearly notice that on the video, but he remembered where he was). Rogers relied too much on his size advantage which is why he lasted so long with Emelianenko and so little with Overeem.
> 
> Fedor has everything he needs to defeat Alistair and he will find a way to do so if they fight.


Who exactly is a "real name" that he's beaten? Hunt, Thompson, Fujita, Goodridge, Buentello? None of these guys are any good as far as modern mma is concerned. It's no different than scoring a win over Ken Shamrock or Dan Severn. Yes these guys were names once, but they can't compete in modern mma. The truth is that Rogers is the biggest name Overeem has beaten, and that is not saying much. Lesnar, Velasquez, Carwin, and Dos Santos already have more quality wins than Overeem.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

fedor ducking people I wonder who did he duck? I heard rumors about Cro Cop, well then he faced him and convincingly owned him. 

Now M1 didnt want to fight Overeem because of roids(i heard that) but didnt Overeem take roids? Then again Fedor will probably face him in SF.


Not joining certain organizations is not ducking people it's called being a good bussinessman. (untill there is a proof UFC offered him more money than SF)


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

Rusko said:


> fedor ducking people I wonder who did he duck? I heard rumors about Cro Cop, well then he faced him and convincingly owned him.
> 
> Now M1 didnt want to fight Overeem because of roids(i heard that) but didnt Overeem take roids? Then again Fedor will probably face him in SF.
> 
> ...


I don't see how it's good business. He is earning less money in Strikeforce than he would in the UFC. If he didn't want to fight for the UFC for other reasons, that's fine. But business isn't one of them. I know one could say that M1 global would fold as soon as Fedor signed with the UFC. However M1 is a business with a timer on it. Fedor can't fight forever. When he retires, M1 will not be able to sustain itself.


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

rockybalboa25 said:


> I don't see how it's good business. He is earning less money in Strikeforce than he would in the UFC. If he didn't want to fight for the UFC for other reasons, that's fine. But business isn't one of them. I know one could say that M1 global would fold as soon as Fedor signed with the UFC. However M1 is a business with a timer on it. Fedor can't fight forever. When he retires, M1 will not be able to sustain itself.


From where you have the knowledge that Fedor would make more money in UFC?

I really want to know.


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## beaux (May 20, 2010)

I see there is a oveereem bandwagon here. Please tell me any top hw or lhw he has beat? Every top flight fighter he's ever faced caned his ass. Now that he's puffed up and beat rogers. He is a world beater. LOL

Fedor is considered the best for a reason. Sure m-1 is a :sarcastic12:. Yet you can't hold that against him as a competitor. He holds impressive wins over a who's who in the fight trade. Fedor will keep it standing and knock his liver loose. Anyone who has been watching mma "pre-tuff" know he has a way of beating people at their own game.

Sure he can be beat it just want be by overeem. It's probably gonna be a large hw that can take a Punch and hold him down with excellent sub defense. Maybe?


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

rockybalboa25 said:


> I don't see how it's good business. He is earning less money in Strikeforce than he would in the UFC. If he didn't want to fight for the UFC for other reasons, that's fine. But business isn't one of them. I know one could say that M1 global would fold as soon as Fedor signed with the UFC. However M1 is a business with a timer on it. Fedor can't fight forever. When he retires, M1 will not be able to sustain itself.


Now please tell us your source about UFC paying him more, otherwise it will look like you are hating.


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## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

i think Fedor is making more money off Strikeforce because they co-promote with M-1 and isn't Fedor part owner or something?


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> Who exactly is a "real name" that he's beaten? Hunt, Thompson, Fujita, Goodridge, Buentello? None of these guys are any good as far as modern mma is concerned. It's no different than scoring a win over Ken Shamrock or Dan Severn. Yes these guys were names once, but they can't compete in modern mma. The truth is that Rogers is the biggest name Overeem has beaten, and that is not saying much. Lesnar, Velasquez, Carwin, and Dos Santos already have more quality wins than Overeem.


I said that he NEEDS TO BEAT some elite HW fighters. I never said that Overeem has good names on his list of victims. So you basically just agreeed with my point


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

there was an article released like a week before the strikeforce event, where M-1 said that fedor is running like 10 miles a day or something and has been training with some kickboxers from holland. i'm too lazy to find it, so someone else try.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*10 Miles a Day*

And that's just for against Werdum, think of what he'll do to train for a fight against Overeem!


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

Rusko said:


> Now please tell us your source about UFC paying him more, otherwise it will look like you are hating.


30 million dollars guaranteed contract=more money

http://www.camelclutchblog.com/dana-white-fedor-emelianenko/

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/ca...irate-Dana-White-responds-from?urn=mma,180454

It was a bad personal business decision. It does keep M1 global around, so it's good for those who ride Fedor's coat tails. But to what end? They are a company that can't sustain without Fedor.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

rockybalboa25 said:


> 30 million dollars guaranteed contract=more money
> 
> http://www.camelclutchblog.com/dana-white-fedor-emelianenko/
> 
> http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/ca...irate-Dana-White-responds-from?urn=mma,180454


"reportedly" lol.. Thats not proof. Im here to report Dana is full of shit ..


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

ZENKI1 said:


> "reportedly" lol.. Thats not proof. Im here to report Dana is full of shit ..


Dana has what reason to lie? Oh that's right none. I can tell your one of those "everything Dana says is a lie" people. The truth is that he could have made more money for himself in the UFC, but he wants to keep M1 global alive. I didn't say anything bad about your precious Fedor. I didn't say he was ducking anyone. I simply said that he made a bad business decision. I don't think anyone would disagree that M1 Global is a mess, and can't sustain itself without Fedor. I also think that most people would agree that M1 hurts Fedor more than they help him.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

rockybalboa25 said:


> Dana has what reason to lie? Oh that's right none. I can tell your one of those "everything Dana says is a lie" people. The truth is that he could have made more money for himself in the UFC, but he wants to keep M1 global alive. I didn't say anything bad about your precious Fedor. I didn't say he was ducking anyone. I simply said that he made a bad business decision. I don't think anyone would disagree that M1 Global is a mess, and can't sustain itself without Fedor. I also think that most people would agree that M1 hurts Fedor more than they help him.


LOL he has every reason to lie.. Thats his job .. Hes a promoter..


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

30 million dollars my dick, someone added an extra zero.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

Lmao was this article to get more attention to the site? 
Lmao again at Dana never lies. 

Dana works like the media. For example when there was war in South Osetia. American news kept repeating lies till people started to believe it and repeat the same thing themselves.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

Rusko said:


> Lmao was this article to get more attention to the site?
> Lmao again at Dana never lies.
> 
> Dana works like the media. For example when there was war in South Osetia. American news kept repeating lies till people started to believe it and repeat the same thing themselves.


Because yahoosports needs to get more press? Dana does work the media, but Fedor never denied that he was offered that much money. Other things Dana has said weren't true, he or his management have made statements to contradict Dana's. The Fedor camp was completely silent on this one.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

I dont know how much Fedor actually makes with Strikeforce or how much the UFC actually offered him, but there is no way in hell Strikeforce could outbid the UFC for Fedor if it came down to money alone. People can say whatever they want about Fedor making more money in Strikeforce, but the fact is, the UFC is a hell of a lot more known and makes a shit load more profit then Strikeforce. Commonsense would dictate that if the UFC wanted to outbid Strikefore, they would have zero problem doing so. Fedor not being in the UFC probably revolves around a hell of a lot more then money.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

that 30 million crap was straight BS.


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

rockybalboa25 said:


> 30 million dollars guaranteed contract=more money
> 
> http://www.camelclutchblog.com/dana-white-fedor-emelianenko/
> 
> ...


2 articles - one said 3fights deal over 30 milion, other said 6fights deal over 30milion.

That enough for me, that they know sh*t.

Even if you know this number you dont know how much Fedor makes now. You dont know details of contract with UFC. Maybe there was something that Fedor cant be conected with M1 coz if he was. UFC will promote not only themselfs but M1 global as well. 

What Fedor said that in contract was things that he wasnt able to accept. 

They are all bussinessmans. Maybe UFC was better for $ in short term but M1 is better in long term. 

There is only FACT that you know FU*K! 

Ofc there is possibility that Fedor wants duck UFC but we just dont know.


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## beaux (May 20, 2010)

I'm positive IF they offered 30 mil. Fedor would be the ufc hw champ right now! That's mad money for mma.I'm calling bullshit on this one.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

Sorry, please delete this my pc freaked out;


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Money*

Fedor didn't pass up the UFC for the money, he passed them up because Dana White didn't want to copromote with M-1 Global, something Strikeforce was willing to do!


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## h2so4 (Jun 24, 2008)

guy incognito said:


> there was an article released like a week before the strikeforce event, where M-1 said that fedor is running like 10 miles a day or something and has been training with some kickboxers from holland. i'm too lazy to find it, so someone else try.


He used to train with Hoost.. not sure if that is still the case.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...I doubt anything at this point can tarnish Fedor's legacy. How can it? He's already a living legend and Fedor is one of the best examples of a class act fighter in all of MMA. It's just a matter of time. Everyone wants to see Overeem & Fedor bang. It will happen. People who base Fedor's career and legacy at stake if he loses any upcoming fight is completely ridiculous. His record & accomplishments speak for itself. For all the setbacks, adversity and contract disputes, he's still managed to keep his incredible composure and stun fans over & over again. Winning the Strikeforce belt would put Fedor in a legendary class all by himself...


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Legacy Class*

Yeah Randy Couture has done things but Fedor has done things that just surpass Randy in so many ways!


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

BrutalKO said:


> ...I doubt anything at this point can tarnish Fedor's legacy. How can it? He's already a living legend and Fedor is one of the best examples of a class act fighter in all of MMA. It's just a matter of time. Everyone wants to see Overeem & Fedor bang. It will happen. People who base Fedor's career and legacy at stake if he loses any upcoming fight is completely ridiculous. His record & accomplishments speak for itself. For all the setbacks, adversity and contract disputes, he's still managed to keep his incredible composure and stun fans over & over again. Winning the Strikeforce belt would put Fedor in a legendary class all by himself...


But only in the mind of his cult followers who will worship him no matter what he does. To the thinking objective fan, Fedor hid from good fighters to prolong his undefeated record. That's nothing short of cowardice. 

I have tons of respect for Crocop, Nog, HH and all the fighters that came from Pride to face the best. They had their time, and should be honored for what they did in the sport. Had Fedor taken the honorable path, he would have some losses on his record to be sure, but would have the respect of the mma community (not a small group of cultists). His legacy will forever be tarnished by his move to fight cans and UFC rejects for the remainder of his career. And if it backfires on him, and he loses to one of these cans, his legacy will rightly be the most overrated, over-hyped fighter in mma history.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Flaws*

Yes the fact that Fedor is fighting non-UFC fighters may backfire on him but that doesn't deject from his legacy! He is still one of the best fighters of the era and nothing, including his later career is going to change that! It's the same with fighters like Royce Gracie, the Shamrock brothers, Dan Severn, Don Frye and Bas Rutten just to name a few, just because they aren't good now doesn't detract from their early careers when they were some of the best!


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> Yes the fact that Fedor is fighting non-UFC fighters may backfire on him but that doesn't deject from his legacy! He is still one of the best fighters of the era and nothing, including his later career is going to change that! It's the same with fighters like Royce Gracie, the Shamrock brothers, Dan Severn, Don Frye and Bas Rutten just to name a few, just because they aren't good now doesn't detract from their early careers when they were some of the best!


The difference is, they didn't move to a weaker league to preserve their records and their ranking. They deserve respect. Fedor should have retired or continued to fight the best until he lost. That is his legacy.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

Well, the only reason Fedor is not in the UFC is because he doesn't really want it that much nor does he need it that much. He could've easily joined UFC back then (around UFC 70s) and smash "TOP contenders" of that time: Sylvia, Nogueira (again, maybe even by knockout), Arlovski, mentally broken Cro Cop, Vera, Gonzaga and dare to say Couture (perhaps some of you will disagree with me on this one, but this is my personal opinion). All of the people, mentioned above, aren't so intimidating now and they have already been replaced and overshadowed by newcomers. Can a victory over Werdum and Overeem solidify Fedor's rank? Not much, because those guys represent the old PRIDE, where they gained their popularity, after that none of them haven't done much and Fedor already proved that he was the king of that era. An impressive victory over Velasquez and dos Santos would doubt the critics because they represent the new era, and Fedor is still capable of doing that, but for some reason he is not interested, simply not interested and cares too much about stupid M-1 which is all over him. I wish it were different, but that's the truth.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*M-1*

Well one of the reasons he likes M-1 Global so much is because he is a part owner of the organization!


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

kantowrestler said:


> Well one of the reasons he likes M-1 Global so much is because he is a part owner of the organization!


Really?


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## Johnni G (Dec 2, 2009)

Fedor vs Overeem would be awesome.


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

Calminian said:


> The difference is, they didn't move to a weaker league to preserve their records and their ranking. They deserve respect. Fedor should have retired or continued to fight the best until he lost. That is his legacy.


I love watching the guy fight anyone, he always puts on a great show. Whether he wants to be considered the best is his concern not ours, let him do what he wants.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

ptw said:


> I love watching the guy fight anyone, he always puts on a great show. Whether he wants to be considered the best is his concern not ours, let him do what he wants.


Who's trying to stop him? If he wasn't to be known as the over-hyped coward, more power to him. It's a free country.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

Calminian said:


> Who's trying to stop him? If he wasn't to be known as the over-hyped coward, more power to him. It's a free country.


I am not a guy that thinks Fedor is the top of the HW division. I didn't like the move to Strikeforce, but I think calling him an over-hyped coward is a bit much.


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

I don't get how he's a coward lol. 

Put yourself in his shoes, if you were fighting for MONEY and you could get more money from one organization than the other which one would you go with? Are you calling henderson a coward because he left the UFC for Strikeforce? I guess the UFC had too much competition for him so he went to an easier organization...terrible logic rofl


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

TLC said:


> 30 million dollars my dick, someone added an extra zero.


I'm trying to remember the last time a fighter has even cleared a 1 million dollar purse for a fight......


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

ptw said:


> I don't get how he's a coward lol.
> 
> Put yourself in his shoes, if you were fighting for MONEY and you could get more money from one organization than the other which one would you go with? Are you calling henderson a coward because he left the UFC for Strikeforce? I guess the UFC had too much competition for him so he went to an easier organization...terrible logic rofl


Once again, going to Strikeforce revolved around a lot more factors then money. Strikeforce probably doesnt even make one third of the money that the UFC clears. If you think Strikeforce can pay Fedor more then the UFC, you are a bit delusional.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

ptw said:


> I don't get how he's a coward lol.
> 
> Put yourself in his shoes, if you were fighting for MONEY and you could get more money from one organization than the other which one would you go with? Are you calling henderson a coward because he left the UFC for Strikeforce? I guess the UFC had too much competition for him so he went to an easier organization...terrible logic rofl


You're laughing at my logic?? Henderson deserves much respect. He's always sought to fight the best. The reason he dropped out of the UFC was not because he was avoiding the best, but because he couldn't get another fight with the best. He was getting old and there really wasn't anything left for him in the UFC as far as title shots. He wanted them, but the UFC had different ideas. It was a good time to move on. He will be remembered as a legend. 

To even mention him and Fedor in the same sentence shows logic is not your strong suit. They are polar opposites. You're free to be a fan, but please don't blame logic.


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Yes the fact that Fedor is fighting non-UFC fighters may backfire on him but that doesn't deject from his legacy! He is still one of the best fighters of the era and nothing, including his later career is going to change that! It's the same with fighters like Royce Gracie, the Shamrock brothers, Dan Severn, Don Frye and Bas Rutten just to name a few, just because they aren't good now doesn't detract from their early careers when they were some of the best!



Fedor = #1 HW.. 5 years ago ... when he beat prime coleman, big nog and cro cop --- none by sheer domination, his heart and stikes and comebacks won us over way back.


His wild swinging and world-class ***** isn't going to cut it against the current breed of top HWs, even one his size (Cain, JDS, even a slimmed down Mir). TODAY, he's like somewhere between Mir and Roy Nelson.

He picked Fabrico Werdum, a guy that can't strike but has great BJJ to that can be countered with his ***** standing up. After (if) he beats Werdum, and he picks a fight against a true top 5 heavyweight, he should just retire and realize the sport has evolved, in terms of caliber of opponent, he's probably somewhere from 7 to 15 in the HW division today. 

His legion of fans and protecting his record are worth more than either more garbage fights OR losing that rep by fighting a modern day MMA top HW (and losing).


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

Calminian said:


> You're laughing at my logic?? Henderson deserves much respect. He's always sought to fight the best. The reason he dropped out of the UFC was not because he was avoiding the best, but because he couldn't get another fight with the best. He was getting old and there really wasn't anything left for him in the UFC as far as title shots. He wanted them, but the UFC had different ideas. It was a good time to move on. He will be remembered as a legend.


Henderson dropped out of the UFC because he wanted to be payed more money. He went to Strikeforce because they offered him more money than the UFC. He didn't leave the UFC because he couldn't get any title shots and he was getting old, he simply wanted money; if you honestly believe the random crap you just spewed read the article below, you're jumping to conclusions. 

http://www.blitzcorner.com/MMA/Dana-White-Talks-about-Dan-Henderson-Leaving-UFC-Video 



> To even mention him and Fedor in the same sentence shows logic is not your strong suit. They are polar opposites. You're free to be a fan, but please don't blame logic.


I mention Hendo and Fedor because they both chose to fight in organizations other than the UFC for more money yet one is called a coward, and one is respected. Again, put yourself in their shoes. Fedor wants money, it's that simple. If he doesn't fight Overeem I will personally take my statements back and side with you on this argument. It is too early to judge yet.



joshua7789 said:


> Once again, going to Strikeforce revolved around a lot more factors then money. Strikeforce probably doesnt even make one third of the money that the UFC clears. If you think Strikeforce can pay Fedor more then the UFC, you are a bit delusional.


And what exactly are those factors? Co-promoting with M1? That has everything to do with money. 



> _On Monday Strikeforce announced a deal with Emelianenko that will put the famed Russian fighter on cards co-promoted by M-1 Global, which is run by Emelianenko's manager, Vadim Finkelstein. While Emelianenko and *UFC officials were negotiating for a deal* as recently as this past week, *the co-promoting demands ultimately tripped up a potential contract offer from the world's most recognizable MMA brand.
> *
> The UFC ultimately caved into demands that tripped up previous negotiations, such as granting Emelianenko permission to compete in Russian ***** tournaments and wear M-1 branded fight gear during UFC fights. However, *neither side was willing to cave on the co-promoting issue, which ultimately led to the Strikeforce deal.*_
> 
> http://mmajunkie.com/news/15727/des...or-emelianenko-can-still-compete-in-japan.mma


Looks to me like all those "other factors" you mentioned all revolve around money, but I guess I'm the delusional one...


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Can M-1 just give up on the co-promotional thing already? It ain't gonna happen!


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

ptw said:


> Henderson dropped out of the UFC because he wanted to be payed more money. He went to Strikeforce because they offered him more money than the UFC. He didn't leave the UFC because he couldn't get any title shots and he was getting old, he simply wanted money; if you honestly believe the random crap you just spewed read the article below, you're jumping to conclusions.


You are utterly delusional if you believe Henderson was avoiding competition. Yes he was offered more money in Strikeforce (ostensibly), but everything I said was true as well. Henderson wanted Silva again. Everyone in the mma world knows this. Please don't damage the the good honorable name of Henderson to excuse the cowardly actions of Fedor. There is no comparison. Fedor couldn't part with his undefeated record. Henderson is an honorable champion who sought to fight the best. It finally came to a point where he could not get that in the UFC and wisely moved on. The UFC saw he was winding down and there's no way they should pay him the sums of money he wanted, especially seeing that he was likely not to be making another title run.

So stop with your erroneous comparison. Sheesh, man have some respect. You should be ashamed even speaking Fedor and Henderson in the same sentence.



ptw said:


> I mention Hendo and Fedor because they both chose to fight in organizations other than the UFC for more money yet one is called a coward.


Um, are you not aware that Henderson went to the UFC and fought the two best fighters in the org at the time? 



ptw said:


> And what exactly are those factors? Co-promoting with M1? That has everything to do with money.


M1=Fedor. I wish you guys would admit that. 



ptw said:


> Looks to me like all those "other factors" you mentioned all revolve around money, but I guess I'm the delusional one...


At this point it's merely a matter of your own sanity. Everyone with an ounce of objectivity knows Fedor is a record protecting ducker. He has a few cultists in his pocket (including a few establishment cultists). But the broader mma world is rolling their eyes and moving on.


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

After reading your reply to my post I have come to the conclusion that you are not worth arguing against any further. It's clear you unable to comprehend what I'm saying. 

The fact that you think I actually believe Henderson was avoiding competition by going to Strikeforce is reason enough for me to a call you a retard and be on my way.



vandalian said:


> Can M-1 just give up on the co-promotional thing already? It ain't gonna happen!


If organizations are willing to co-promote why would they give it up? Strikeforce was willing to co-promote so Fedor went there. The UFC has more than enough money to co-promote one super match with Fedor and the HW champion and lay things to rest. We'll find out whether Fedor is worth the money if that day ever comes. The only people to blame are the guys at the UFC who don't want to co-promote, we all know that they have more than enough money to do at least ONE show with Fedor, so wtf is stopping them? 

If they did this, it could ruin the integrity of the league. What Fedor is trying to do is make MMA more fighter based and independent from a league, like how boxing is right now. The UFC is wise to refuse to co-promote because it could be the beginning of their downfall. Personally, I'd rather it be in a league, more fights this way, and it's more organized. From a fighter's standpoint co-promoting is way more fair to them, they really don't get paid that much for their bouts.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Issues*

Yeah Henderson didn't go to Strikeforce because he didn't want to face off against top competition, he went to Strikeforce because Dana didn't want to pay him the money he thought he was worth!


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

ptw said:


> After reading your reply to my post I have come to the conclusion that you are not worth arguing against any further. It's clear you unable to comprehend what I'm saying.


Then I guess there's no reason to read the rest of your comments. I always marvel at people that say they don't want to argue, then proceed to argue. :sarcastic09:


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Yeah i think if Fedor ducks Overeem then it would look very bad for his legacy and a good win... I think he will do it... But i dont see UFC in the future still...


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

If Fedor beats Werdum and still doesn't fight Overeem, I don't care what his fanboys say or what M1 says he' ducking him. There would be no reason for him to fight anyone else.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

I bet the first time Fedor loses everyone is going to come out and talk about how much Fedor sucks and how much he's always sucked. Then they'll go on about how he never faced good competition and ducked the UFC because he was afraid. Even if he doesn't lose, they'll still say he was ducking the UFC and wasn't as good as his nut huggers made him out to be.

Basically, people are morons and will jump off someones wagon the second they lose.

Also, you're stupid if you think Fedor is afraid to fight someone who's been in Japan fighting cans for the past 3 years. Overeem is not top competition.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

MikeHawk said:


> I bet the first time Fedor loses everyone is going to come out and talk about how much Fedor sucks and how much he's always sucked. Then they'll go on about how he never faced good competition and ducked the UFC because he was afraid. Even if he doesn't lose, they'll still say he was ducking the UFC and wasn't as good as his nut huggers made him out to be.
> 
> Basically, people are morons and will jump off someones wagon the second they lose.
> 
> Also, you're stupid if you think Fedor is afraid to fight someone who's been in Japan fighting cans for the past 3 years. Overeem is not top competition.


If Fedor loses in Strikeforce to the likes of a Werdum or some other can of that caliber, he will be ridiculed to be sure. And why not? If he would have joined the UFC and fought the best and lost, he would have nothing but respect. That's what great fighters do. But when a fighter joins an inferior league to protect his record and still loses? Yeah, he's never going to hear the end of it. :confused04:


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

MikeHawk said:


> I bet the first time Fedor loses everyone is going to come out and talk about how much Fedor sucks and how much he's always sucked. Then they'll go on about how he never faced good competition and ducked the UFC because he was afraid. Even if he doesn't lose, they'll still say he was ducking the UFC and wasn't as good as his nut huggers made him out to be.
> 
> Basically, people are morons and will jump off someones wagon the second they lose.
> 
> Also, you're stupid if you think Fedor is afraid to fight someone who's been in Japan fighting cans for the past 3 years. Overeem is not top competition.



I say that right now and have been saying that for a while, Fedor WAS P4P and #1 HW when HWs were lower caliber, HW 'cans' he could beat. With he the new breed TODAY I would put him 2nd to borderline 3rd tier MMA HW. Fedor is the #7-#10 HW in terms of talent right now. Objective Oddsmakers would put it that way, if they didn't - If there was like a +400 on Fedor over Cain Valesquez, I would drop a lot of change on Cain.

Basically Prime Big Nog, Coleman and Cro Cop are not as good as the top of the HW class right now.

Overeem i don't know - he's better, he's more committed, put on muscle over 4 years - doesn't scream PEDs in the progressive way he's gained weight. I could gain that kind of lean muscle if I had an Overeem like ectomorphic body and committed myself to gaining muscle mass, no problem. He's committed in training. What I do know from Overeem in the past is that once he gets tagged hard once, he starts backing down and giving up - no heart. Fedor has heart and recovers, that's his only edge right now, never gives up even when he's getting pounded - that's his edge.

I would still put my money on Overeem though, the guy's trained hard. I don't think he's on PEDs.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

MrObjective said:


> I say that right now and have been saying that for a while, Fedor WAS P4P and #1 HW when HWs were lower caliber, HW 'cans' he could beat. With he the new breed TODAY I would put him 2nd to borderline 3rd tier MMA HW. Fedor is the #7-#10 HW in terms of talent right now. Objective Oddsmakers would put it that way, if they didn't - If there was like a +400 on Fedor over Cain Valesquez, I would drop a lot of change on Cain.
> 
> Basically Prime Big Nog, Coleman and Cro Cop are not as good as the top of the HW class right now.


The only fighters in UFC that have a chance against Fedor is JDS and Carwin,and it's quite obvious why. Cain would get dominated on the ground and so would Brock.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

When you look back at Fedor vs. Cro Cop, vs. Nog and so on.. 

and when you see now how these guys struggle in the UFC atm.. even Fedor will be worried on how good he really still can perform against the top Level. And I for one believe, that Fedor knows, that he most likely will end up losing too! 

He isn't in his Prime anymore same as Cro Cop, Nog and so on. 

A loss now will never take away his Legacy. So he can try it and everybody still wants to see it. But I for 80% believe, that he won't be able to beat the likes of JDS, Cain, Brock and Overeem anymore. He is still a top 5 HW but not number 1 anymore! 

The Evolution in my mind is just to fast in this Sport!


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> Fedor WAS P4P and #1 HW when HWs were lower caliber, HW 'cans' he could beat.





> Basically Prime Big Nog, Coleman and Cro Cop are not as good as the top of the HW class right now.


The only way to know that is to put them in the ring when they all were in their prime. Now, Dos Santos hasn't looked super impressive in his fight with Cro Cop who is definitely not what he used to be. JDS was beaten up by Mirko's left jab constantly. Of course, the third round was excellent, but two previous not much. Cro Cop lacks confidence and something else. In his best years I bet he'd be able to stand with JDS and get a victory. I don't how people can possibly think that "HW division has evolved over the years". Not much has evolved - former stars like CC and NOG have become older (and slower) and weren't able to become as versatile as the new ones and we can add here all the concussions they've suffered which play huge factor. Now, Fedor has never been a one-dimentional guy, in fact he was letting his opponent use their strengths and they still weren't able to do anything - nobody was. Nowadays, kickboxing is still kickboxing, BJJ is still BJJ and wrestling is still wrestling. Fast, intelligent, mentally stable and strong fighters without any serious injuries and concussions suffered that can do it all succeed, the others - don't. Now, I hope Fedor hasn't become drastically slower over the last 2-3 years and hasn't had any serious injuries, because if not, he is still the best heavyweight in MMA and capable of beating anyone UFC and Strikeforce can offer. He has the tools, mentality, intelligence and determination of the winner - you can't take that away from him. The only thing that can spoil everything is his physique and here we are left to guess, because Fedor is 34 this year and around that time vast majority of the fighters start to decline... Honestly by looking at Fedor and his body type, I think he won't last as long as Couture, Liddell, Henderson and Anderson Silva, but you just never know he surprised me before and may do it again.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

I think this hole thread in pointless, if Fedor beats Werdum then there is no doubt, he will be fighting Overeem, I think its a lot more to do with coming to financial agreement with Fedor and M-1 than it is to do with fight dodging. And if I am not mistaken there is a 3 fight deal with SF and Fedor at the end of the day and I think M-1 realise now they must honour that contract.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

The thing is, that Fedor should have already fought Overeem for the Title instead of fighting Rogers. So M-1 and SF couldn't made the fight happen there.. so what makes you so sure, that it will happen now??


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

BobbyCooper said:


> When you look back at Fedor vs. Cro Cop, vs. Nog and so on..
> 
> and when you see now how these guys struggle in the UFC atm.. even Fedor will be worried on how good he really still can perform against the top Level. And I for one believe, that Fedor knows, that he most likely will end up losing too!
> 
> The Evolution in my mind is just to fast in this Sport!


Fedor is not Cro Cop or Nog he dominated both of them in convincing fashion,them not doing well in the UFC has nothing to do with Fedor.What evolution are you talking about Brock, Cain? The UFC champ got his belt beating a 50 yr old man that Fedor would dominate easily.Overeem is more of a threat then Brock or Carwin because he has more experience then both of them combined together.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Thats why I said even Fedor would struggle. I am talking about the Evolution of the Sport MMA in general. It's just way to fast, that a guy who was in his prime 5 years ago could still manhandle the Top HW's today. Can he compete? Yes! He's still a top 5 HW. But I just think, that he can't beat the likes of Brock, JDS, Cain, Overeems from today..(I didn't mentioned Carwin in my first post) These guys represent the Evolution of the HW devision and the Sport in general.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

BobbyCooper said:


> Thats why I said even Fedor would struggle. I am talking about the Evolution of the Sport MMA in general. It's just way to fast, that a guy who was in his prime 5 years ago could still manhandle the Top HW's today. Can he compete? Yes! He's still a top 5 HW. But I just think, that he can't beat the likes of Brock, JDS, Cain, Overeems from today..(I didn't mentioned Carwin in my first post) These guys represent the Evolution of the HW devision and the Sport in general.


Overeem and Fedor are the best fighters in the world,realistically Brock and Carwin don't even deserve to fight them because they haven't beaten the best and compete against worse fighters like Mir,Gonzaga,Kongo ,Roy,Couture,Nog i can go on all day.None of these fighters are on Overeems or Fedors level so why should they be considered the best when they fight in a div that doesn't have the best fighters.You think i'm impressed that Brock beat Mir and couture? or that Cain beat Nog or Ben Rothwell,or that Carwin beat Mir and Gonzaga.


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## beaux (May 20, 2010)

fedor would be just fine with any fighter out there today. The only real evolution I see is the size of the fighters. Not one of the guys you say could beat him has been battle tested. Jds would get ko'd. He let a slower CC hit him. Fedor would follow up the jab with bad intentions. Brown pride is all "hype". He reminds me of Terry Sokadjo "spl?". In time he will actually get to fight a legit guy and get his ass handed to him. 

Oveerhyped will get his soon enough. The guy has good hands but,not buying into he is world beater. He has lost to every top flight fighter he has ever faced. 

Carwin is a large mofo and hits like a pack mule. Fedor would out class him on the feet. Chances are Carwin would not even land a punch. 

Brock is interesting he has the size, strength, and speed .To put Fedor in a bad spot. Does he have the chin and sub d to make it to the bell?


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

I wasn't talking about whether somebody deserves to fight Fedor or not. But guys like Cain, JDS, Overeem all deserve it! So Fedor and M-1 should make it happen finally..
The UFC HW devision is considered to be the strongest devision ever! So yes I am sure Fedor would not do to well up there. Even against the SF Champion, he will most likely lose. Cause time changes..

but I see that I am talking to Fedor fans here so yea I agree, Fedor is the number 1 without a doupt and nobody should even think about challenging him


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

BobbyCooper said:


> The UFC HW devision is considered to be the strongest devision ever! So yes I am sure Fedor would not do to well up there. Even against the SF Champion, he will most likely lose. Cause time changes..
> 
> but I see that I am talking to Fedor fans here so yea I agree, Fedor is the number 1 without a doupt and nobody should even think about challenging him


By who is the UFC HW division considered the best? Dana? when they get the 2 best fighters in the world then they will be considered the best.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)




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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)




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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Lol classic comic book right there!


I think I like the first version better though, its closer to reality


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Version*

I think both versions are correct in a way, if you combine them!


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

beaux said:


> fedor would be just fine with any fighter out there today. The only real evolution I see is the size of the fighters. Not one of the guys you say could beat him has been battle tested. Jds would get ko'd. He let a slower CC hit him. Fedor would follow up the jab with bad intentions. Brown pride is all "hype". He reminds me of Terry Sokadjo "spl?". In time he will actually get to fight a legit guy and get his ass handed to him.
> 
> Oveerhyped will get his soon enough. The guy has good hands but,not buying into he is world beater. He has lost to every top flight fighter he has ever faced.
> 
> ...


"JDS let Cro Cop hit him?" Yes, with some ineffective jabs while JDS beat the crap out of Cro Cop till he was bloddy pulp and CC verbally submitted from taking punches and quickly ran out of the cage. This is crisp hard hitting boxer with good take down defense that can take a punch and a kick and anything Cro Cop could offer he shrugged off. 

"Oveerhyped" We'll see if Fedor even takes the fight. I have both Fedor and Overeem in the #5-7 HW range as of right now. I hope oddsmakers follow that sentiment, i'll put my cash down on Overeem.

"(Carwin)Fedor would out class him on the feet." Fedor has a jumping puncher's chance to rock him and flurry him, otherwise it would be another 1st round KO for him. Likely outcome.

"(Brock) Does he have the chin and sub d to make it to the bell?" He has the take down skills to shoot and beat him like a ragdoll, this isn't Brett Rogers that tips over if you tap him on the shoulder - Brock knocks people off their feet or grabs them throws them around like rag dolls. He circuit trains like a pro athlete.

Fedor had his day, he's still a top 10 HW, but the guys you just listed would all be favored. He won battles, he's shown a lot of heart, but he's not on the same level with this generation's top HWs. He's better off retiring and preserving his precious record. If he wants to fight people, let him fight Big Nog or Coleman again.


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## beaux (May 20, 2010)

MrObjective said:


> "JDS let Cro Cop hit him?" Yes, with some ineffective jabs while JDS beat the crap out of Cro Cop till he was bloddy pulp and CC verbally submitted from taking punches and quickly ran out of the cage. This is crisp hard hitting boxer with good take down defense that can take a punch and a kick and anything Cro Cop could offer he shrugged off.
> 
> "Oveerhyped" We'll see if Fedor even takes the fight. I have both Fedor and Overeem in the #5-7 HW range as of right now. I hope oddsmakers follow that sentiment, i'll put my cash down on Overeem.
> 
> ...


Jds- point is he got hit and allot. You might want to rethink if you think Fedor would not follow the jab with "BAD" intentions. He hits as hard as any fighter out there. Has fast hands and is very accurate.

oveerhyped- well you will get to see soon enough.He has beat who? yea he is puffed up and did so-so in k-1. My money is on overeem taking it to japan for the next few years.

Carwin- yea he hits hard. But fights like old people ****. I really doubt if he even lands a punch. Yet his big slow ass will get hit and hit hard!

Brock he has the creed's on paper for sure. Just not getting to worked up over this fight.Fedor sub rnd 1. I would love to see it tho.

What makes you think that he is not a Better fighter than he was at pride? Just cause he hasn't fought in the ufc doesn't mean he hasn't fought anyone. 

Please explain to me why he is a worse fighter now, and not a better fighter?


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

beaux said:


> Jds- point is he got hit and allot. You might want to rethink if you think Fedor would not follow the jab with "BAD" intentions. He hits as hard as any fighter out there. Has fast hands and is very accurate.
> 
> oveerhyped- well you will get to see soon enough.He has beat who? yea he is puffed up and did so-so in k-1. My money is on overeem taking it to japan for the next few years.
> 
> ...


JDS and Fedor is about who lands the big shot first.

I don't think Overeem will beat him, unless Fedor decides to stand with him. I think Fedor's ground game wins that one.

Carwin moves a little like a robot, but I think he takes Fedor down. While we haven't seen a lot of that from Carwin, he has that ability.

I don't see any situation that Velasquez and Lesnar don't GNP Fedor out of the fight.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

If Fedor fights intelligently, he will take JDS down and finish him there. There is no way Fedor won't be able to take him there. JDS's striking is good, but it's not like he is so great at it that Fedor should be intimidated to death. No kicks, holes in defense explored by washed-up Cro Cop. Ground game is still suspect. If Fedor fought him now, I'd bet he would beat Dos Santos on the ground for sure and Fedor's kickboxing skills would be good enough to avoid being knocked out.

Velasquez? I personally think that Fedor would be the worst match-up for Cain. While I respect Cain a lot, but there's something that blocks me from seeing him with UFC belt around his waist let alone beating Fedor.

Carwin? The guy has the way of knocking people out early. Would it work for Fedor? I don't know, but I'd be more worried in this fight for Emelianenko unless the fight goes to the ground where Fedor's skills should earn him a victory or at least survive and ultimately earn the decision, because I just don't see Shane owning Fedor for 5 rounds or pounding him there into oblivion.

Lesnar has been out for almost a year and had injury. I don't think he'll be in exact shape as he's been on UFC 100 where he dominated Mir. Like I said in the previous thread, if he destroys Carwin, I'll say it's 50/50 with Fedor, in the event that he won't and end up losing, then 70/30 in Fedor's favor. 

But, once again, this is MMA and nothing is for sure. Fedor might slip in his next fight or make a ridiculous mistake (or both) leading to embarrassing loss. Overeem may intentionally kick Fedor a couple of times in the groin just to shatter him and Emelianenko won't be the same again. You just never know.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Fedor VS Lesnar*

I think coming off of the illness that Brock just had he will be extremely lucky if he beats Carwin, let alone go on to face Fedor. Carwin is probably the worst warm-up match that anyone could possibly get!


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

The_Senator said:


> If Fedor fights intelligently, he will take JDS down and finish him there. There is no way Fedor won't be able to take him there. JDS's striking is good, but it's not like he is so great at it that Fedor should be intimidated to death. No kicks, holes in defense explored by washed-up Cro Cop. Ground game is still suspect. If Fedor fought him now, I'd bet he would beat Dos Santos on the ground for sure and Fedor's kickboxing skills would be good enough to avoid being knocked out.
> 
> Velasquez? I personally think that Fedor would be the worst match-up for Cain. While I respect Cain a lot, but there's something that blocks me from seeing him with UFC belt around his waist let alone beating Fedor.
> 
> ...


I think you overestimate Fedor's ground game. While it is good, there is a big difference between his past performances and what he would have to do against today's HW elite. Fedor has never fought wrestlers like Carwin, Lesnar, and Velasquez. He has submitted Lindland, Coleman, and Randleman. These guys aren't even close to the size and strength of the big 3 in the UFC. All three are over 250lbs while Fedor's former wrestler foes are LHWs and a MW. Beyond that Lesnar is faster than all three of them. I mean Randleman is a guy who couldn't even take Rampage down. I don't think there are many people that say that Fedor's guard is leaps and bounds beyond Mir's guard and look at what Lesnar did to Mir. I think a BIG wrestler is the style that can beat Fedor. You did make a valid point about Lesnar. We don't know what shape he is in after the illness. If he's back to where he was at UFC 100, Carwin doesn't have a chance.


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## beaux (May 20, 2010)

rockybalboa25 said:


> I think you overestimate Fedor's ground game. While it is good, there is a big difference between his past performances and what he would have to do against today's HW elite. Fedor has never fought wrestlers like Carwin, Lesnar, and Velasquez. He has submitted Lindland, Coleman, and Randleman. These guys aren't even close to the size and strength of the big 3 in the UFC. All three are over 250lbs while Fedor's former wrestler foes are LHWs and a MW. Beyond that Lesnar is faster than all three of them. I mean Randleman is a guy who couldn't even take Rampage down. I don't think there are many people that say that Fedor's guard is leaps and bounds beyond Mir's guard and look at what Lesnar did to Mir. I think a BIG wrestler is the style that can beat Fedor. You did make a valid point about Lesnar. We don't know what shape he is in after the illness. If he's back to where he was at UFC 100, Carwin doesn't have a chance.


Today's elite? Coleman and randleman back in the pride days were as big if not bigger than these guys. Cain only holds about 5lbs over fedor.
Linland is one of the highest decorated wrestlers in mma. Olympic competitor and I think "don't quote me tho" Coleman was also. Randleman was a top flight wrestler also. Much more decorated than your "elite". So don't really know where you are headed with that.

Fedors ***** championships and well his mma record of subs speak for itself. Mir is a stud, yet his jitzs is overrated in mma. Roy Nelson subbed him.In Mirs defence tho he did get cracked by a 300lb man before he went to the ground? That has a way of producing a loose guard.

The big wrestler might be the key. I'm a old hardcore fan. I believe that skill beats size every time. Don't believe me just watch some ole ufc from the dark ages. Pay close attention to a 165lb Brazilian.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

beaux said:


> Today's elite? Coleman and randleman back in the pride days were as big if not bigger than these guys. Cain only holds about 5lbs over fedor.
> Linland is one of the highest decorated wrestlers in mma. Olympic competitor and I think "don't quote me tho" Coleman was also. Randleman was a top flight wrestler also. Much more decorated than your "elite". So don't really know where you are headed with that.


Both Carwin and Lesnar have to cut weight to make 265. None of those other three ever weighed into 240. No matter how decorated they are, there are weight classes for a reason.



beaux said:


> Fedors ***** championships and well his mma record of subs speak for itself. Mir is a stud, yet his jitzs is overrated in mma. Roy Nelson subbed him.In Mirs defence tho he did get cracked by a 300lb man before he went to the ground? That has a way of producing a loose guard.


BJJ tournaments aren't mma. Just being winning a BJJ tournament doesn't necessarily translate into the mma. Mir's guard is so much better than Fedor's it's not even close.



beaux said:


> The big wrestler might be the key. I'm a old hardcore fan. I believe that skill beats size every time. Don't believe me just watch some ole ufc from the dark ages. Pay close attention to a 165lb Brazilian.


That comment shows that you simply don't understand modern mma. Back then none of those big guys knew anything about submissions. That 165 Brazilian now gets smashed by guys his own size. Size makes a diffence now.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Smashed*

That's probably why Royce is unofficially retired!


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## beaux (May 20, 2010)

rockybalboa25 said:


> Both Carwin and Lesnar have to cut weight to make 265. None of those other three ever weighed into 240. No matter how decorated they are, there are weight classes for a reason.
> 
> 
> BJJ tournaments aren't mma. Just being winning a BJJ tournament doesn't necessarily translate into the mma. Mir's guard is so much better than Fedor's it's not even close.
> ...



Well I not positive but Coleman was 250+ at fight time. And both are very large men. Coleman was the ufc Heavyweight Champion, we are talking hw's right? Anything over 207 lbs is considered a hw.I might of read the post wrong, But I thought it was implied that The "elite" group were better wrestlers? Which is clearly not the case. 

Well seeing how pulling guard is a core jj move I think It has some bearing on a persons use of the guard. So If you don't mind please explain how Mir's guard is better than Fedors.

With everything else being equal in skill. Then yes size does matter. Fact being there is only a handful of fighter that fight at their natural weight. They prefer to cut 20-40 lbs and make size their trump card. Many do it to make up for their lack of skill. Rumble comes to mind . Just to name a name.

As far as not understanding modern mma, well I did get a good chuckle from that. raise01:


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Fedors first "loss" will be getting knocked out on the feet by a can. Someone with more computer skills should put the video of him getting spaghetti legged by the stocky asian guy back in the day.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

beaux said:


> Well I not positive but Coleman was 250+ at fight time. And both are very large men. Coleman was the ufc Heavyweight Champion, we are talking hw's right? Anything over 207 lbs is considered a hw....


No we're talking natural HW's not blotted up LHW's. In theory the blotted up LHW will be weaker at the heavier weight. We are for the first time in mma history seeing true elite HW athletes. I don't think Fedor has faced one yet.


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## beaux (May 20, 2010)

Calminian said:


> No we're talking natural HW's not blotted up LHW's. In theory the blotted up LHW will be weaker at the heavier weight. We are for the first time in mma history seeing true elite HW athletes. I don't think Fedor has faced one yet.



How are you considered a bloated up lwh, if you were the freaking ufc hw champ. Again anything over 207 -265 lbs is considered a hw. Besides at the time of the fight Coleman was considered one of if not the strongest guy out there. Same with randleman. Sure as time progressed they started to cut weight to make up for the skills they lacked to compete and win. One must consider the time the fight took place not present day. Coleman was a stone cold stud in his prime. To say anything different is a joke. 

The hype around a bunch of guys who have a handful of fights and no real test on there record. Is really funny.
I can't count the # of so-called "elite" fighters that have since went to "can" status.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

beaux said:


> How are you considered a bloated up lwh, if you were the freaking ufc hw champ.


Because the HW div. sucked back then.


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## beaux (May 20, 2010)

Calminian said:


> Because the HW div. sucked back then.


LOL ok I see now.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

beaux said:


> Well I not positive but Coleman was 250+ at fight time. And both are very large men. Coleman was the ufc Heavyweight Champion, we are talking hw's right? Anything over 207 lbs is considered a hw.I might of read the post wrong, But I thought it was implied that The "elite" group were better wrestlers? Which is clearly not the case.
> 
> Well seeing how pulling guard is a core jj move I think It has some bearing on a persons use of the guard. So If you don't mind please explain how Mir's guard is better than Fedors.
> 
> ...



Size has a great deal more of an influence than that. A large descent fighter can beat a really good fighter. Mark Hunt vs wanderlei silva is a good example of that. Skill cannot simply overcome size. By that logic Jose Aldo should have no problem with a guy like Forrest Griffin.


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## beaux (May 20, 2010)

rockybalboa25 said:


> Size has a great deal more of an influence than that. A large descent fighter can beat a really good fighter. Mark Hunt vs wanderlei silva is a good example of that. Skill cannot simply overcome size. By that logic Jose Aldo should have no problem with a guy like Forrest Griffin.


Mark was a tough mofo that could fight. So yea The big guy one that one. With Forest's chin here lately I wouldn't be surprised.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

beaux said:


> Mark was a tough mofo that could fight. So yea The big guy one that one. With Forest's chin here lately I wouldn't be surprised.


Mark Hunt has always been and will always be a less than average fighter. Please don't bring up that BS decision over CroCop.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Hunt*

Yeah I'm surprised he won that fight considering that high light real of Cro Cop throwing punches and then kicking him. But then again how Hunt wasn't knocked out by that kick I will never know!


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