# Are Upkicks illegal?



## Cookie66 (Feb 9, 2012)

Henderson landed an upkick on Edgar. I thought upkicks are illegal in UFC, are they? Or is it that they re only illegal under the Nevada Sports Commission, which means they are legal in Japan?


----------



## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

Cookie66 said:


> Henderson landed an upkick on Edgar. I thought upkicks are illegal in UFC, are they? Or is it that they re only illegal under the Nevada Sports Commission, which means they are legal in Japan?


They are only illegal if they are to the head of a person who is grounded. Frankie was standing when Bendo upkicked him, so it was fine.


----------



## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

This


----------



## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

SmackyBear said:


> They are only illegal if they are to the head of a person who is grounded. Frankie was standing when Bendo upkicked him, so it was fine.


What he said, if the person is standing, its legal. If the person has both knees on the ground, its illegal. Stupid rule/technicalities I know... they should just remove the grounded part totally, just like how you can't knee someone in the head if he has 1 hand down, but you can do everything else to him if the guy tries to abuse it.


----------



## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

you don't need to have both knees to the ground

one knee or one hand is enough, this is also why Jones did that weird "walk" at the beginning of his fight against Page.

as long as there's more than 2 points connecting you to the ground, you're "grounded opponent"

(knee, foot, foot / foot foot hand / don't know about hand hand foot tho)


----------



## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

hadoq said:


> you don't need to have both knees to the ground
> 
> one knee or one hand is enough, this is also why Jones did that weird "walk" at the beginning of his fight against Page.
> 
> ...


In practice that's essentially what it is, but it's not exactly what's in the unified rules. It's anything except the soles of the feet.



> 16. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
> 
> A grounded opponent is any fighter who has more than just the soles of their feet on the ground. (i.e. could have one shin or one finger down to be considered a downed fighter) If the referee determines that a fighter would be a grounded fighter but is not solely because the ring ropes or cage fence has held fighter from the ground, the referee can instruct the combatants that he is treating the fighter held up solely by the cage or ropes as a grounded fighter
> 
> ...


Unified rules.


----------



## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

I think it should be changed to two knees, since the commission will never allow kicks and knees to a grounded fighter. I honestly despise putting your hand on the mat to avoid knees, this should not be a valid tactic.


----------



## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Joabbuac said:


> I think it should be changed to two knees, since the commission will never allow kicks and knees to a grounded fighter. I honestly despise putting your hand on the mat to avoid knees, this should not be a valid tactic.


I think it was Big John who once warned a fighter that he wasn't going to count it. I can't remember the fight but the guy was going for a TD and ended up in a bad spot prime for some knees. He put his hand down and Big John told him that he wasn't a grounded fighter to keep fighting.


----------



## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

cdtcpl said:


> I think it was Big John who once warned a fighter that he wasn't going to count it. I can't remember the fight but the guy was going for a TD and ended up in a bad spot prime for some knees. He put his hand down and Big John told him that he wasn't a grounded fighter to keep fighting.


Don't know about Big John doing it but when Cheick Kongo fought Paul Buentello Herb Dean told Paul Buentello that he was letting some knees slide because Paul was "trying to play the game". As I recall Herb had warned Cheick earlier but after that it looked like Paul was trying to time putting his hand down right when Kongo would throw a knee so that he could get out of the bad spot and get a point taken away from Kongo.


----------



## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

dario03 said:


> Don't know about Big John doing it but when Cheick Kongo fought Paul Buentello Herb Dean told Paul Buentello that he was letting some knees slide because Paul was "trying to play the game". As I recall Herb had warned Cheick earlier but after that it looked like Paul was trying to time putting his hand down right when Kongo would throw a knee so that he could get out of the bad spot and get a point taken away from Kongo.


You are correct, that is exactly the fight I was thinking about! +rep my good man!


----------



## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Yea thats an even more shitty tactic, trying to put the hand down just as the knee comes in to try and win a cheap point. Even more reason for a rule change.


----------



## DanTheJu (Mar 3, 2007)

While I agree that the rule of kicking a downed opponent is a good rule (I just dont like the spirit of kicking a guy in the head while he is on the ground), I also agree the hand/knee rule is a bit excessive.

I would like to see something like "A grounded fighter is any fighter that has any part of their body touching the mat or both knees"

Something like that I would be okay with.


----------



## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

I think you should at least need to be on one knee. The way rampage was standing but keeping one hand on the ground against Bader to stop knees just doesn't seem right.


----------



## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

DanTheJu said:


> While I agree that the rule of kicking a downed opponent is a good rule (I just dont like the spirit of kicking a guy in the head while he is on the ground), I also agree the hand/knee rule is a bit excessive.
> 
> I would like to see something like "A grounded fighter is any fighter that has any part of their body touching the mat or both knees"
> 
> Something like that I would be okay with.


What about "A fighter who has a knee or an arm on the ground as part of a transition from Ground to Standing or vice versa"? Ultimately the only legitimate time you should have three points of contact is if you are transitioning.


----------



## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

DanTheJu said:


> I would like to see something like "A grounded fighter is any fighter that has any part of their torso touching the mat or both knees"
> 
> Something like that I would be okay with.


I changed "body" to "torso" - I think that would work best.


----------



## trimco (Feb 4, 2011)

Joabbuac said:


> Yea thats an even more shitty tactic, trying to put the hand down just as the knee comes in to try and win a cheap point. Even more reason for a rule change.


Why is it cheap?

Seems clever to me.


----------



## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

trimco said:


> Why is it cheap?
> 
> Seems clever to me.


Says a lot about your character if you see nothing wrong with trying to game an undeserved point quite honestly.


----------



## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

Until the rule is changed I don't think we should be judging a fighter's "character" based on if they take advantage of the rule or not. It's currently in the rules, if a fighter is in a position to put a hand down to potentially avoid a kick/knee to the head, then he's fighting smart, and using the rules to his advantage.

If a ref for some reason warns a fighter to "not play the game" and allows illegal strikes that's opening a pretty big can of worms.


----------



## halifaxdonair (Aug 27, 2011)

trimco said:


> Why is it cheap?
> 
> Seems clever to me.


well the problem with it is you still get kneed in the head from a somewhat vulnerable position.


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

halifaxdonair said:


> well the problem with it is you still get kneed in the head from a somewhat vulnerable position.



That isn't an illegal strike. You need to be downed when the strike is thrown not after. If someone throws a knee and you put your fingers on the ground just before it lands that strike is legal.


----------



## Ryan1522 (Oct 31, 2006)

Rampage was "playing the game" in his fight lol. I also hate thata guys can do that and think that's abuse of the rules to try to avoid the fight. 

I think there should be a rule that allows the ref to determine if fighters are abusing this rule, and if they see fit, they can take a point for "stalling or avoiding fighting".


----------

