# GSP News



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

> When Dan (The Outlaw) Hardy takes on Mike (Quick) Swick next week at UFC 105 in Manchester, England, the most interested observer cageside will be Canadian Georges St. Pierre.
> 
> "Apparently I will probably fight the winner of this fight so I'm going to be watching it very carefully," St. Pierre told The Canadian Press.
> 
> ...


http://tsn.ca/mma/story/?id=297209

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Sounds like he is itching to get back in the ring. Glad to hear that he is healthy now, that is amazing how he kept fighting with 3 muscle tears.

I am a little disappointed that it seems like he will be waiting for the Swick vs Hardy winner. I really do hope that at some time he will fight Anderson.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Man GSP is impressive. He treats every opponent like his biggest challenge. Hardy and Swick are both pretty undeserving at this point, and if GSP can dominate Alves while severely injured, they're going to get destroyed.
:thumb02:


Really though, I'd rather see Kos/Rumble (as dumb as that fight is) get a title shot than Swick/Hardy.


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## 6toes (Sep 9, 2007)

It seems like its been a while since we've seen GSP in the octagon. I was hoping he would have a fight sooner but I wouldn't mind seeing him fight Hardy or Swick seeing as there really isn't anyone else for him to fight at the moment.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

WAR GSP!!!!

But who said Hardy gets the shitle tot if he beats Swick? Did I miss something?


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

GSP would destroy Hardy and Swick. It wouldn't even be worth watching.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

RushFan said:


> GSP would destroy Hardy and Swick. It wouldn't even be worth watching.


 Did you say that before the Mat Serra fight too?? GSP fans dont have many options on exciting fights, i dont think he is big enough to move up to MW so rematches or ppl think are undeserving are the only options he has.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Oh man, is he ever gonna maul the winner of Swick-Hardy.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

for some reason I really wanna see him fight swick.


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

alizio said:


> Did you say that before the Mat Serra fight too??


that was when gsp was still a fighter that fought to finish now he is just an athlete that fights not to lose..How is anyone going to beat him (least of all 2 WWs half his mass)when he is laying on them for 5 rounds?


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Kreed said:


> that was when gsp was still a fighter that fought to finish now he is just an athlete that fights not to lose


Are we still on this? Did you really see a guy against Fitch, Penn and Alves fighting not to lose?


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

vandalian said:


> Are we still on this? Did you really see a guy against Fitch, Penn and Alves fighting not to lose?


if penn didnt lack heart we would be saying these are 3 fights where GSP was never once in trouble, totally dominated and yet couldnt keep the fight out of the judges hands


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)




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## Belfort (Aug 4, 2009)

The only way these fights could be competitive is if we get Swick and Hardy vs GSP at the same time... now we have a fight on our hands :thumb02:
But seriously neither of these fights are that interesting to me... the only fight for the WW title i wanna see is GSP vs Alves in about 2 years time when i think Alves will be ready and more well rounded.


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

Kreed said:


> that was when gsp was still a fighter that fought to finish now he is just an athlete that fights not to lose..How is anyone going to beat him (least of all 2 WWs half his mass)when he is laying on them for 5 rounds?


True and repped. 
That's why I'm not a big GSP fan anymore. Where have the head kicks and arm bars against Hughes gone? 
Pretty harsh saying Penn lacked heart though. Penn just lacks the size needed to compete with GSP. He took serious damage in that fight and battled on longer and fiercer than almost any other fighter would have.


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## Ruckus (Oct 2, 2009)

I can't stand GSP, but I also can't deny his work ehic and approach to fighting. The fact that he had an abductor muscle tear (let alone 3 tears) and STILL destroyed The Pitbull was simply amazing. I really don't see the winner of Swick/Hardy having a chance. As much as I hate to admit this, I think that Kos has the only chance against GSP. I am purposely leaving Rumble out of the equation until he can prove some consistency at making weight.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Kreed, RushFan, you didn't see a guy trying to finish those fights? Honestly?

Come on, tell me, in detail, how GSP fought so differently in those fights.

Seriously, break it down for me.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

vandalian said:


> Are we still on this? Did you really see a guy against Fitch, Penn and Alves fighting not to lose?


 I dont like the wording but i understand what he means, he doesnt provide fans with exciting fights or go out of his comfort zone for a second if he feels there is any danger, but thats just smart fighting too. But if you are truely a class above ppl perhaps you could finish more ppl, esp standing up and make it more exciting. But i dont begrudge him for doing what he does best and what nobody can stop. Basically little Mat Serra took the balls away from GSP and now he fights very safe, not willing to risk any exchanges even tho he has way above average standup. His GnP is often in LnP mode he doesnt really try to finish from GnP much he just keeps up a decent pace and wears you down.


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## 6toes (Sep 9, 2007)

alizio said:


> I dont like the wording but i understand what he means, he doesnt provide fans with exciting fights or go out of his comfort zone for a second if he feels there is any danger, but thats just smart fighting too. But if you are truely a class above ppl perhaps you could finish more ppl, esp standing up and make it more exciting. But i dont begrudge him for doing what he does best and what nobody can stop. Basically little Mat Serra took the balls away from GSP and now he fights very safe, not willing to risk any exchanges even tho he has way above average standup. His GnP is often in LnP mode he doesnt really try to finish from GnP much he just keeps up a decent pace and wears you down.


I'm a huge GSP fan but I definitely see where you're coming from here. I actually enjoyed his last few fights though but I admit I think he could have done a little more to try and finish those fights. As you said though, thats just smart fighting. I think it won't be much longer before we start seeing GSP get more comfortable with his standup. He hasn't been in any real danger standing in his past few fights and I'm hoping that will boost his confidence for future bouts.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4cAzDudTnA

http://v.youku.com/v_playlist/f3610785o1p16.html


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## js9234 (Apr 8, 2007)

Some of you guys are crazy. I think GSP's fights are interesting. He completely demolishes his opponents. So what if it went to a decision a couple of times, it was still very entertaining. He doesn't have to come out of his comfort zone if he's completely dominating guys. Anyways, I really want to see him face Swick. I think Swick will actually give GSP problems in the later rounds. Once Swick gets his timing down in the fight he can unload a fury of punches and catch GSP very easily. I see Swick giving him much more problems than Alves and Fitch because of his reach and quickness. His TDD is pretty good and hits hard.


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

vandalian said:


> Kreed, RushFan, you didn't see a guy trying to finish those fights? Honestly?
> 
> Come on, tell me, in detail, how GSP fought so differently in those fights.
> 
> Seriously, break it down for me.


The trend for GSP is to be very cautious in his fights and grind out his opponents. There is no argument to oppose this view except the fact he was injured in the Alves fight.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Except the fact that he's champion, so his last three opponents are three of the toughest men he's ever fought. He beat the piss out of BJ, became the first man to pass Fitch's guard and mauled Alves with a pulled groin. 

How does any of that make him "very cautious,?"


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

alizio said:


> I dont like the wording but i understand what he means, he doesnt provide fans with exciting fights or go out of his comfort zone for a second if he feels there is any danger, but thats just smart fighting too. But if you are truely a class above ppl perhaps you could finish more ppl, esp standing up and make it more exciting. But i dont begrudge him for doing what he does best and what nobody can stop. Basically little Mat Serra took the balls away from GSP and now he fights very safe, not willing to risk any exchanges even tho he has way above average standup. *His GnP is often in LnP mode he doesnt really try to finish from GnP* much he just keeps up a decent pace and wears you down.


Common dude, see what he did to Fitch and BJ from top position. 

Look at their faces, They both looked like aliens after the fight lol.

GSP tried very hard to finish both fights, he did it against BJ (though he's extremely tough to finish) and against Fitch, he just happened to face one of the toughest WWs.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Xerxes said:


> Common dude, see what he did to Fitch and BJ from top position.
> 
> Look at their faces, They both looked like aliens after the fight lol.
> 
> GSP tried very hard to finish both fights, he did it against BJ (though he's extremely tough to finish) and against Fitch, he just happened to face one of the toughest WWs.


 i hear what your saying but in a 5 round fight you should be finishing more ppl with the dominating fashion he takes them down. i dont want to get negged and diss george, he is very good at what he does and definately the class of the division but i can understand ppl that think he always takes the safe route and never shows us more then brief glipses of the standup, even against guys he is clearly better standing then, i really think the Serra fight shook him up confidence wise in his standup, which is a shame because he is pretty versatile there and i think he could look to add some exciting finishes standing, but again, i dont begrudge him for using what obviously works, he doesnt gas because he is a cardio freak but also because he almost never overextends himself trying to finish an opponent.


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

vandalian said:


> Except the fact that he's champion, so his last three opponents are three of the toughest men he's ever fought. He beat the piss out of BJ, became the first man to pass Fitch's guard and mauled Alves with a pulled groin.
> 
> How does any of that make him "very cautious,?"


I could call him very "cautious" or very "professional" it doesn't matter to me. GSP's new style will win him a lot of fights but said fights will not be very entertaining and given that MMA is my spectator sport of choice that's largely all I care about.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

How can people say GSP doesn't TRY to finish fights? That is retarded... i suppose that straight he landed on Fitch wasn't trying to finish him, just make him buckle. Or when he smashed Penn's face into the ground several times, or the knockdown of Alves.

Lets be realistic here. BJ Penn doesn't get knocked out or submitted. period. Jon Fitch is as touch as nails as is Alves.

He does try and finish, it's not his fault he only fights top-tier fighters. Swick and Hardy are not top-tier therefore GSP will most likely finish either one of them.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

i would go more into it, but 2 neg reps is enough considering im just giving my OPINION on GSP, geez you would think these ppl are his GF or something.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

lol I'd rep you if I could but gotta spread it around first. :thumbsup:

Regarding your post I hear what your saying and do agree he should keep the fight on the feet more and pick his opponents apart sometimes but to say his GnP is LnP and that he doesnt try to finish his fights is questionalble imo. 

I was just addressing this point


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

alizio said:


> i would go more into it, but 2 neg reps is enough considering im just giving my OPINION on GSP, geez you would think these ppl are his GF or something.


yeah I really dont get the point of neggin someone just because their opinion differs from the packs..If we all had the same view it would defeat the purpose of this forum


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

Khoveraki felt passionate enough to neg me but couldn't bring himself to debate the topic. :sign02:


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## T.Bone (Oct 15, 2008)

vandalian said:


> Are we still on this? Did you really see a guy against Fitch, Penn and Alves fighting not to lose?


Yeah what's the matter with people? Not only did he beat Fitch, Alves and Penn, but he made them look silly.

But yeah GSP just plays it safe, blanketing his opponent and never doing any damage. 

And "fighting not to lose" is the silliest thing I've ever heard. They don't spend months of training just to go out there and say: "**** it, I'm gonna go in there swinging and who gives a **** if I lose?". 

Maybe it works for Chris Leben but people like GSP are champions for a reason.


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## Josh Jones III (Mar 20, 2009)

vandalian said:


> Oh man, is he ever gonna maul the winner of Swick-Hardy.


You're probably right -- but that's what we said about Serra way back. I know it's different now that GSP has Greg Jackson but the point is that Swick and Hardy both at least have a puncher's chance against GSP. Either will probably get murdered but you just never know.


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## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

Fitch going to a decision its a testimony to his heart. GSP did try to finish him, and would've finished probably anyone else with that beating.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Under overused and misused terms -- "lay and pray." Do you guys even know what it means?

No one gets LnP'd and ends up looking like Fitch does in that pic.

BJ didn't lose because he lacked heart. He spent the night in the hospital.


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## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

alizio said:


> Did you say that before the Mat Serra fight too?? GSP fans dont have many options on exciting fights, i dont think he is big enough to move up to MW so rematches or ppl think are undeserving are the only options he has.


sad but so true im afraid


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

vandalian said:


> Under overused and misused terms -- "lay and pray." Do you guys even know what it means?
> 
> No one gets LnP'd and ends up looking like Fitch does in that pic.
> 
> BJ didn't lose because he lacked heart. He spent the night in the hospital.


Penn said a month or so later that if he had went to the next round, it probably would have ended his career.

GSP leaves opponents so thoroughly beaten, physically and emotionally, that it's outrageous. You leave a fight with him knowing that he can beat you standing up, he can take you down at will and keep you there, and he can destroy you on the ground.

As to not finishing? He goes for submissions when he can, but mostly he just loves to pound on guys like it's a real fight. Watching GSP fight is probably the closest to a street fight. He doesn't just go to knock someone out quick or make them tap... he brutalizes them and leaves no doubt he's superior. It's not like it's ever a close decision. 

If you knock someone out or tap them out in the first round, there will always be some doubt as to how the rematch would go. Is there any doubt how a rematch with anyone vs GSP would go?


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## 6toes (Sep 9, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> Penn said a month or so later that if he had went to the next round, it probably would have ended his career.
> 
> GSP leaves opponents so thoroughly beaten, physically and emotionally, that it's outrageous. You leave a fight with him knowing that he can beat you standing up, he can take you down at will and keep you there, and he can destroy you on the ground.
> 
> ...


I think I would be smart enough not to accept the first fight :thumb02:. But yes, GSP takes a piece of every fighter he faces home with him and breakdances on it.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

Glad to see GSP is ready to go again. Although I'm not entirely sure how well Hardy or Swick will test him... still GSP is always an entertaining watch so I look forward to it...!


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

Chileandude said:


> Fitch going to a decision its a testimony to his heart. GSP did try to finish him, and would've finished probably anyone else with that beating.


I think you need to watch that fight again. 
GSP beat the shit out of Fitch in the first round and Fitch was rendered feeble by the end of the 2nd. Only then does GSP let the fight stay standing and utilize some striking skills. 
It gave the impression of a war but it wasn't.


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## flexor (Sep 25, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Penn said a month or so later that if he had went to the next round, it probably would have ended his career.
> 
> GSP leaves opponents so thoroughly beaten, physically and emotionally, that it's outrageous. You leave a fight with him knowing that he can beat you standing up, he can take you down at will and keep you there, and he can destroy you on the ground.
> 
> ...


It seems hard to accept that GSP isn't trying to finish fights. I'm quite sure he is, but he normally doesn't stray from his strengths and is hellish effective.

My guess is he started getting this rep with the Serra rematch, as he wasted no time taking the fight to the ground. But the ground and pound he started executing from that moment forward has been legendary, and very entertaining because he stays so busy.

Expectations for GSP finishing a fight are usually far different from the expectations Silva or Lesnar have however.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

flexor said:


> Expectations for GSP finishing a fight are usually far different from the expectations Silva or Lesnar have however.



wat?

Silva is a striker and he definitely has finished early, but Lesnar vs Heath was a snoozefest and makes up 1/3rd of all his fights ever.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

lol at gsp being a lay n pray artist. Take a look at the faces of his last three opponents: Alves, BJ, Fitch. Their faces look like raw hamburger after it's over.

BJ said he went into a major depression after his loss. GSP destroys his opponents physically AND emotionally.


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## flexor (Sep 25, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> wat?
> 
> Silva is a striker and he definitely has finished early, but Lesnar vs Heath was a snoozefest and makes up 1/3rd of all his fights ever.


I agree but Brock has improved his game since then and HH is one tough bastard. 

I simply don't believe the majority of people expect Lesnars fights to become judges affairs.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

I'll watch the cautious wrestler GSP seems to have morphed into, in hopes that he'll bust out some karate.

I don't care if I'm disappointed on the latter point or not. I'm just awed to see such an athlete in action.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

I am definetly not the biggest fan of watching a GSP fight. Yes he is without a doubt the best WW in the world. His fights just arent that entertaining to me. Ya ya do what works but what works for him just doesnt really get me excited. he is going to maul Swick or Hardy. Hopefully Swick wins cause atleast he has the fast hands with KO power and reach on GSP which might pose a problem, but he will most likely be taken down and beat up for 5 rounds. Sorry if Im not excited but I really dont want to watch the same fight again. He probably does have a better chance of finishing one of these guys then he did alves or fitch


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

khoveraki said:


> wat?
> 
> Silva is a striker and he definitely has finished early, but Lesnar vs Heath was a snoozefest and makes up 1/3rd of all his fights ever.


I'm sorry, but bringing up the heath fight is just wrong...If I remember correctly Lesnar was DEMOLISHING Heaths ribs with knees, much like what GSP did to Serra to force a stoppage.

That and the fact that Heath's face afterwards looked like it had been given a once over with a meat tenderizer.

Tough Opponents = Tough to finish


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

steveo412 said:


> I am definetly not the biggest fan of watching a GSP fight. Yes he is without a doubt the best WW in the world. His fights just arent that entertaining to me. Ya ya do what works but what works for him just doesnt really get me excited. he is going to maul Swick or Hardy. *Hopefully Swick wins cause atleast he has the fast hands with KO power and reach on GSP which might pose a problem, but he will most likely be taken down and beat up for 5 rounds. *Sorry if Im not excited but I really dont want to watch the same fight again. He probably does have a better chance of finishing one of these guys then he did alves or fitch



Swick and GSP have the same reach, so it's not a disadvantage but it's definitely not an advantage.

And GSP's standup is lightyears beyond Swick's. He'll probably stand with Swick like he did with Alves until he knocks him down.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

khoveraki said:


> Swick and GSP have the same reach, so it's not a disadvantage but it's definitely not an advantage.
> 
> And GSP's standup is lightyears beyond Swick's. He'll probably stand with Swick like he did with Alves until he knocks him down.


I thought Swicks reach was 77 and GSP around 74 could be wrong though. Swick has very quick flurrys with KO power and could cause GSP some problems but he will probably just take him down and beat him up.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

GSP's reach is 76 inches, very close to Swick's.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

If he wants a challenge, if he wants to be at a natural disadvantage instead of the advantage he has GSP should just move up to MW. A few more title defenses and seriously, what else will there be to do except somehow get Cung Le or Shields beyond that not much left. Some very exciting fights would await at MW, but could he handle a Maia or Marquart nevermind Franklin, Vitor or Silva. I would be very interested to find out, he is so dominant, but its repetitive and i know he is a beyond superhuman athlete, he outworks everybody and i consider Jon Fitch to be the number 2 WW in the UFC and he destroyed him, ppl arent excited about Hardy at all and getting a mixed buzz about Swick so whoever wins shouldnt get the nod over Rumble if he wins, but if Kos wins... blah, move up to MW and vacate lol....


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

GSP will easily take down Swick or Hardy. Alves and Penn have amazing world class take down defense and he took them down at will.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Dude, Marquardt's the size of a dinosaur. Anderson is 6'2" and walks around at 220. Vitor is a former 205 champ. Belcher's a damm giant at 185. I think 185 is too big a weight class for GSP. 

Let some of the smaller MW's move down: Akiymama for one, perhaps there are others. Swick's moved down already, and it's been a good move for him.

Dana's desire for competitive fights, and a lack of competition at 170 might force GSP to move up. There are plenty of good fights for him there, but I just don't think it's good for his legacy.

BJ looked like a joke trying to move up in his last fight against GSP. I'm not saying GSP would be that arrogant, to take a week off in the middle of camp all the while while ducking Dana White's calls, but in my mind, GSP is a very small 185-er. 



alizio said:


> If he wants a challenge, if he wants to be at a natural disadvantage instead of the advantage he has GSP should just move up to MW. A few more title defenses and seriously, what else will there be to do except somehow get Cung Le or Shields beyond that not much left. Some very exciting fights would await at MW, but could he handle a Maia or Marquart nevermind Franklin, Vitor or Silva. I would be very interested to find out, he is so dominant, but its repetitive and i know he is a beyond superhuman athlete, he outworks everybody and i consider Jon Fitch to be the number 2 WW in the UFC and he destroyed him, ppl arent excited about Hardy at all and getting a mixed buzz about Swick so whoever wins shouldnt get the nod over Rumble if he wins, but if Kos wins... blah, move up to MW and vacate lol....


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

GSP would be small compared to the top MW fighters but his wrestling is very strong and wrestling is what makes the biggest difference when comparing fighters size. It isn't like he would be coming in at 175 or 180 he would probably still have to cut and he has said he would want to bulk up if he fought at 185.

He might lose some fights but I think he would be competetive.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

besides Anderson I dont really know who else would beat him. He is a better fighter than everyone else in the division. Hendo would give him trouble but I dunno if he is even in UFC anymore, Nate is one of his training partners. I think he would kill Maia and I dont even think Maia is bigger than him other than that I think he could beat everyone else.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

GSP might be sort of short for the 185 division but his reach, natural build, and athleticism easily makes up for it. He might actually have the longest reach at 185 if he moved up. Anderson is what, 74"? And GSP is 77".

Plus if he moved up for sure he'd do it right, put on just the right amount of muscle etc.

I honestly think he'd walk through the middle tier and decisively beat the top tier.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

AS is 77.5 and GSP 76. 

Thing is AS uses his reaches extremely well.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Xerxes said:


> AS is 77.5 and GSP 76.
> 
> Thing is AS uses his reaches extremely well.


Yeah and his shoulder width is MUCH more narrow than GSPs, so his actual arm-length I'm sure is significant.


Still though, Silva had a ton of trouble with Hendo and Lutter (and wrestlers in general), I'm pretty sure GSP would take his crown as he's a better striker, submissionist, and wrestler than Hendo.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> Yeah and his shoulder width is MUCH more narrow than GSPs, so his actual arm-length I'm sure is significant.


Exactly.



> Still though, Silva had a ton of trouble with Hendo and Lutter (and wrestlers in general), I'm pretty sure GSP would take his crown as he's a better striker, submissionist, and wrestler than Hendo.


I'm sure a 200 lbs GSP could TD AS, but taking his crown.. A lot easier said than done imo. 

GSP would have to TD AS without getting caught by a huge punch and basically control him on the ground for 5 rounds. AS's legs are very long and his guard pretty dangerous and active, but GSP's top game is insane. 

GSP might be a better rounded, technical striker than Hendo, but he doesn't have as much power and his chin isn't as good. Not even close. Hendo got rocked by Silva on the feet. 

Same with the wrestling. He's much better technically and more explosive but Hendo is also a lot bigger and stronger than GSP (especially in the clinch where Silva excels). 

I think a bigger GSP could defeat AS in a 3 rounder, but a 5 rounder makes it considerably harder imo. (and I'm a big GSP fan)


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Xerxes said:


> Exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If GSP put on 15 lb of muscle, would he still have the speed and explosiveness in his striking, IYO?


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

He'll probably lose some speed and explosiveness in his striking/wrestling (and possibly some cardio) but very little imo. 

I think thats what he meant when he said he needed "time" to bulk up to MW and he wanted to do it "properly". GSP and his camp are too intelligent not to do it properly.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

If he gained 15 pounds of muscle he might lose some speed but I think he would just become more explosive and powerful


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

More explosive I dunno but he'd definitely gain in the strength department (not that he isnt super strong already lol)


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

theres no such thing on certain body frames and builds as gaining 15 pounds of muscle properly and not having it effect your speed, explosiveness and especially your cardio, even more so against natural 185s. I think GSP would be competitive in the MW division but i dont think he could crack the top 5. These guys are dropping down to 185, by fight night they are huge, George would need to gain alot of weight to keep up and his frame is long, lean muscle which is what makes him the explosive cardio machine he is, i think a signifigant amount of muscle mass gain would take away the very things that make him special.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

How much do these MWs weigh come fight night? 195-200, 205 lbs max (including AS). 

GSP has definitely the frame to add 10-15 lbs of lean muscle. His shoulders are broad and is far from looking like a tank at his natural walk around weight of 185 lbs. Should he gain just 10-15 lbs of lean muscle, he'd step in the cage at just below 200. 

That's very close to most 185s and considering his reach, and the wrestling/strength advantage he'd have over most if not all of them, imo he could be a top, possibly an elite MW. 

He'd just have to adapt his cardio to his new weight and Im pretty confident he would.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Xerxes said:


> How much do these MWs weigh come fight night? 195-200, 205 lbs max (including AS).
> 
> GSP has definitely the frame to add 10-15 lbs of lean muscle. His shoulders are broad and is far from looking like a tank at his natural walk around weight of 185 lbs. Should he gain just 10-15 lbs of lean muscle, he'd step in the cage at just below 200.
> 
> ...


That would make him even more dangerous, and iconic.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

jumping from lhw to hw is one thing, same with lw to ww, but i cant think of many WW that can make the jump and it would definately put GSP on another level and up there with Silva in the p4p. The only other WW i think who could make the jump is Rumble and that's only because dude is a lhw anyways lol


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I think GSP could bulk up and make a great run at MW.

And Alizio don't forget about Alves. He could easily make MW.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I think GSP could bulk up and make a great run at MW.
> 
> And Alizio don't forget about Alves. He could easily make MW.


 good point, but his t-rex arms might be a serious disadvnatage there, i think rumble would be competitive.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

alizio said:


> jumping from lhw to hw is one thing, same with lw to ww, but i cant think of many WW that can make the jump and it would definately put GSP on another level and up there with Silva in the p4p. The only other WW i think who could make the jump is Rumble and that's only because dude is a lhw anyways lol


Rumble is a LHW when he's out of shape just as GSP would be a MW if/when out of shape. 

AJ is really a natural MW though. 

And what's the difference between jumping from LW-WW/LHW-HW and WW-MW?

If anything the hardest jump would be LHW-HW since you could be fighting dudes possibly 50/60 lbs heavier than you. Randy showed us you could out-wrestle *much* heavier and larger guys with average wrestling skills. 

Other than Nate and Hendo, I cant think of a top MW who has great wrestling. GSP's wrestling is the best in the business, he's completely out-wrestled and out-powered guys who have very good TDD and that are his own size, sometimes bigger.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Xerxes said:


> Rumble is a LHW when he's out of shape just as GSP would be a MW if/when out of shape.
> 
> AJ is really a natural MW though.
> 
> ...


Agreed on all fronts. I think GSP would be just as unstoppable at MW. 

I'd bet you anything that at GSP's camp, Marquardt is not too eager to spar with GSP. I'd bet the weight difference all but goes out the window.

Fitch is a better wrestler than Marquardt and is very close technically to Henderson, and GSP made him look like a fool. Alves probably weighed during the GSP fight what half of MWs would weigh during the fight, and the weight was not a factor at all. 

After Rumble gets torn apart and schooled by GSP we can put these weight issues behind us and have Rush move up a weightclass.


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## DrHouse (Aug 1, 2009)

This whole issue of jumping weight classes. Technically jumping from LHW to HW is the hardest for obvious previously stated reasons. LW to WW = 15 Pounds, WW to MW = 15 pounds, MW to LHW = 20 pounds, so in theory it shouldn't be the hardest. I think the difficulty lies in the actual sizes of the fighters, Silva is huge MW and I think is rightfully a LHW or even a HW, Henderson actually was a LHW, Belfort has competed at HW. GSP is 5'10" and has a 74" reach, I think he'd do fine. Hope he tools winner of Hardy/Swick then Rumble and moves up man, maybe we could actually see him against Silva.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

GSP's reach is 76" not 74. Check out the ToTs in his last fights and his Wiki. 

I was taking a look at the SF main card a bit earlier and remembered Shields is a natural WW who so far does just fine at MW. 

And we all know GSP >>>> Shields


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Xerxes said:


> GSP's reach is 76" not 74. Check out the ToTs in his last fights and his Wiki.
> 
> I was taking a look at the SF main card a bit earlier and remembered Shields is a natural WW who so far does just fine at MW.
> 
> And we all know GSP >>>> Shields


Agreed, although the trend is typically for 185s to lose and drop to WW (opposed to WWs cleaning out the division and moving up) Shields isn't as athletic and doesn't have the same frame as GSP and he did well at 185.

FTR though, I think Shields vs GSP is far more interesting than any fight for GSP in the UFC right now.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Agreed, although the trend is typically for 185s to lose and drop to WW (opposed to WWs cleaning out the division and moving up) Shields isn't as athletic and doesn't have the same frame as GSP and he did well at 185.
> 
> FTR though, I think Shields vs GSP is far more interesting than any fight for GSP in the UFC right now.


Yeah and I am confident that GSP would beat Shields. He also already beat Mayhem Miller. Just thought I would throw that out there.


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## Zenhalo (Sep 9, 2006)

I know they're different weight classes- but something about GSP vs. Nate seems intriguing.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

Zenhalo said:


> I know they're different weight classes- but something about GSP vs. Nate seems intriguing.


They are also training partners so I don't think they would fight. If they did I think Nate would win because of his size and strength. He is a huge MW and is very well rounded. He is also very underrated. He might be in the top 10 or 15 pound for pound fighters in the world. But anyone in the MW division just looks bad compared to Anderson.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> Agreed, although the trend is typically for 185s to lose and drop to WW (opposed to WWs cleaning out the division and moving up) Shields isn't as athletic and doesn't have the same frame as GSP and he did well at 185.
> 
> *FTR though, I think Shields vs GSP is far more interesting than any fight for GSP in the UFC right now. *


Agreed. Although he'd have almost no ways of winning imo, other than a "submission chance" off his back. I wouldn't even give him a puncher's chance tbh. His striking is horrible and has no power whatsoever. 

At least AJ, Swick, Alves, Kos, Hardy and Daley all have a punchers chance. 

I'd still like to see GSP/Shields though. 



diablo5597 said:


> *They are also training partners so I don't think they would fight.* If they did I think Nate would win because of his size and strength. He is a huge MW and is very well rounded. He is also very underrated. He might be in the top 10 or 15 pound for pound fighters in the world. But anyone in the MW division just looks bad compared to Anderson.


True.


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## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

RushFan said:


> GSP would destroy Hardy and Swick. It wouldn't even be worth watching.


By destroy do you mean lay on for a couple of rounds ?


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Hellboy said:


> By destroy do you mean lay on for a couple of rounds ?


C'mon GSP deserves better than to extend this stereotype. The only guys he couldn't finish recently were the #2 and #3 WW, and he was really injured in one of the fights.

It's not his fault that guys like Koscheck and Fitch go into defense mode a third of the way through the fight. Do you know how hard it is to finish a guy who is already set on losing? Focusing 100% on not getting KO'd or submitted makes you pretty good at not getting KO'd or submitted.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

i dont know why GSP fans cant accept it, he is clearly the best WW in the world by a mile but he DOESNT have KO power, not one shot KO power, not GnP KO power, not devastating combo KO power, its just not his game, so what?? Why pretend he was close to finishing those guys?? His GnP is ruthless beating you up, bruising you up, making you look horrible, but not KOing you


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Do you guys even know what "lay and pray" means?


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

If they saw any Randleman fight, they'd know.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

It isn't GSP's lack of finishing ability that didn't allow him to finish Fitch and Alves, it was Fitch and Alve's skill and how talented of fighters they are that didn't allow GSP to finish them.

As for B.J, he DID finish him, he beat him to the point where he couldn't go into the 5th. It's nearly impossible to finish B.J, yet he couldn't fight a 5th round. That's as good as finishing.


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## sworddemon (Feb 4, 2007)

> It isn't GSP's lack of finishing ability that didn't allow him to finish Fitch and Alves, it was Fitch and Alve's skill and how talented of fighters they are that didn't allow GSP to finish them.


Agreed. GSP, at this point in his career, would finish any WW who is not in the top 5. But because he is number 1, he doesn't face those guys. He faces the top competition. Why is so hard to see that the top competition are simply _hard to finish_? Who else has finished BJ, Hughes, Koscheck, Fitch or Alves? Not very many people.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

I bet you the guys that GSP hasn't finished wished they had been. Sure they were able to survive and look for chances to win but they ended up taking terrible beatings. Far from lay and pray.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

alizio said:


> i dont know why GSP fans cant accept it, he is clearly the best WW in the world by a mile but he DOESNT have KO power, not one shot KO power, not GnP KO power, not devastating combo KO power, its just not his game, so what?? Why pretend he was close to finishing those guys?? His GnP is ruthless beating you up, bruising you up, making you look horrible, but not KOing you


Would you like to explain what happened to Matt Hughes in their second fight then? Specifically, the part where he was dropped with a head kick and elbowed to death?


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## UltraMax (Oct 24, 2009)

Agreed. GSP is too talented.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

aerius said:


> Would you like to explain what happened to Matt Hughes in their second fight then? Specifically, the part where he was dropped with a head kick and elbowed to death?


Yes, I seem to recall that being something of a showstoppa.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm not sure if I posted this in this thread or not, but:

I think GSP's style is way more real. If he finishes it's rarely from a flash KO (but not never) or an unearned sub. It's always an extremely convincing win, where he just beats his opponent in the ground and leaves no doubt. If you put two hungry men in a cage, they would fight a lot more like GSP than like, for example, Shields. 

He doesn't fight just to win. He fights to prove he's better at everything than his opponent - he's proving why he's the Champion. :thumbsup:


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Shields does little for me, but I do want to see him fight GSP eventually.

But he should stop claiming he wants to, since obviously he could have by now.


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