# Frankie Edgar replaces Erik Koch, meets champ Jose Aldo at UFC 153. Holy Sh**!!



## BOMDC (Feb 13, 2011)

> Despite a pair of disappointing losses to current UFC lightweight champion Benson Henderson, former titleholder Frankie Edgar (14-3-1 MMA, 9-3-1 UFC) will now get his shot at history.
> 
> USA TODAY Sports and MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com) have learned that an undisclosed injury has forced Erik Koch (13-1, 2-0) to withdraw from a planned UFC 153 title fight with current featherweight champion Jose Aldo (21-1, 3-0), and Edgar has agreed to step into the evening's main event.
> 
> ...




Source



Bout time for some good news. So, quickness vs Faber Legs. Thoughts? (Besides Oh My F#%$ YES)


PS. INB4 tin foil "this was planned by the UFC as soon as they heard Frankie said yes to 145"


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Never liked the Erik Koch fight and always wanted to see Aldo fight a dead on elite fighter (I suppose Kenny Florian and Faber are to some). Would of liked to see a 145lb Edgar in another fight first...see how he looks at the weight, but fuk it....this is great news.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

I hope Frankie makes the most of the time he has to walk before this fight. 

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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Time for Aldo to put up or shut up cause this is gonna be his first major test. To date he has not fought anyone who belonged at the top of the LW heap. I think Edgar tramples Aldo on route to cleaning out the FW division.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

If Edgar jab and jogs his way to a decision I'm going to flip the **** out. 

Here's to Aldo kicking his legs out and smashing his face in.

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## usernamewoman (Sep 24, 2007)

and here i was thinking this fight would not happen until 2013

War Edgar!!


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

And there goes the little hope my FFL team had...


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

I don't care if the UFC overtly took Koch out the fight for no reason. The fight was a joke to begin with, Koch didn't deserve a shot and probably doesn't belong in the same cage as Aldo.

The crazy thing is this was already an insanely good card now it gets a legitimate main event.


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

Can't wait for this fight!!


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

**** yes! I hope Frankie picks him up and drops him over and over. Frankie needs to wrestle and grapple for 5 rounds to win, he is so successful when he mixes it up against good strikers, not so much when he tries pure boxing.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

Lol. Pretty sure aldo is the best striker edgar has ever faced, and the most knock out power edgar has ever faced.

Predicted aldo by knock out rd 1 or 2.

EDIT : What happens to edgar if he loses?


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

holy **** I might have to watch this now.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Finally some good news.

Jose Aldo tko win round 2.


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## BOMDC (Feb 13, 2011)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> Lol. Pretty sure aldo is the best striker edgar has ever faced, and the most knock out power edgar has ever faced.
> 
> Predicted aldo by knock out rd 1 or 2.
> 
> ...


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Edgar is coming off of two losses, and is getting a title shot in a division he has never fought in?

Hahah. Wow.

I cannot stand Aldo and I'd love to see him get his ass beat, especially in his home country. 

But Aldo is winning this.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Ari said:


> Edgar is coming off of two losses, and is getting a title shot in a division he has never fought in?
> 
> Hahah. Wow.
> 
> ...


Who cares man.. all of Frankies recent losses were arguably not losses. And Frankie is still incredibly skilled. Way more then anyone else who could challenge Aldo at this point. I have no problem with them giving the EX champ and more skilled fighter a title shot over someone who does not even belong in the same octagon.


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

I really love this kind of fight from my POV.
Because I have really high opinion about Frankie Edgar. I think he is scraper to the bone. At the same time I think that Aldo is one of the fighters that are on the end of spectrum as gifted you can be. Its insane. 

So its really interesting for me to see clash of these guys because I respect both of their abilities very much.

I can see Aldo dominating Edgar and make a huge statement for mma community. I also see Edgar beat Aldo to the punch having better condition and beign faster later in fight.

I love that this fight can make a difference in mma landscape


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## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm hoping for half a round of Edgar doing his lame knees-bent running around, then Aldo gets sick of Frankie's B.S. and just blasts him with a knee. Fight over, Frankie gets fired, the world is better for it.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Jose Aldo will send Frankie to the bantamweight division.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Too risky. He's potentially looking at losing 3 title fights in a row. Bad move for Edgar IMO.


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

OH YEAHraise01:


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## Pound&Mound (Dec 10, 2007)

Edgar is gonna send Aldo packing to lightweight after he exhaust the crap outta him and he decides to cut less weight and fight at 55.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> Lol. Pretty sure aldo is the best striker edgar has ever faced, and the most knock out power edgar has ever faced.
> 
> Predicted aldo by knock out rd 1 or 2.
> 
> EDIT : What happens to edgar if he loses?


Aldo is overvalued, kenflo was able to take him to a decision and he is not even remotely close to being as skilled of a striker as Edgar.


LizaG said:


> Too risky. He's potentially looking at losing 3 title fights in a row. Bad move for Edgar IMO.


Fighting for the featherweight title is a bad move? What are you talking about....


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Pound&Mound said:


> Edgar is gonna send Aldo packing to lightweight after he exhaust the crap outta him and he decides to cut less weight and fight at 55.


lol Frankie Edgar has never faced a fighter like Aldo before, a fighter much faster than he is. Then combine that Aldo is a better striker and has a lot more KO power than anybody Edgar has faces thus far. Edgar will be KOed for the first time in his career. 

I don't see anywhere where Edgar has an advantage or could win.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

LizaG said:


> Too risky. He's potentially looking at losing 3 title fights in a row. Bad move for Edgar IMO.


Id rather fighter take risks, its either take the fight now or fight someone then fight Aldo - doesn't seem too different from Edgars point of view. That said i think Aldo destroys his footwork with leg kicks and takes him out with punches.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

I'm thinking potentially 3 lost title fights in a row means he won't see title contention for some time afterwards. It'd be hard to sell him as a contender if that's the case.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

marcthegame said:


> lol Frankie Edgar has never faced a fighter like Aldo before, a fighter much faster than he is. Then combine that Aldo is a better striker and has a lot more KO power than anybody Edgar has faces thus far. Edgar will be KOed for the first time in his career.
> 
> I don't see anywhere where Edgar has an advantage or could win.


Aldo has more power than BJ? He's a better striker than anyone Edgar has fought but he couldn't put kenflo away and looked unimpressive? He's faster than Edgar you say? 

He's probably a better grappler than Jim Miller and BJ too right? 

Eddie Alvarez has both quicker hands and more power in his punches than Aldo.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

LizaG said:


> I'm thinking potentially 3 lost title fights in a row means he won't see title contention for some time afterwards. It'd be hard to sell him as a contender if that's the case.


True... but if he doesnt take the title shot he probably wont see title contention in a while. And imagine he says no to this title shot and takes a normal fight and loses... then he might NEVER see title contention.


This is the best thing that could happen for him. He does not have to fight his way to a title shot and then possibly be sent back down the latter. He instead got PUT in the front and if he loses he gets sent back down the latter.

And he has until October 13th. Thats good amount of time to train for someone who stepped in for an injured fighter to get a title shot without any fights in that weight class.

Chael was willing to go UP a weight divison and fight a more dominant champion on 8 days notice... Chael is a bad mother trucker!


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## Abrissbirne (Jul 4, 2010)

All In on Edgar, finally a new Champ at 145


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## armchairmma (Jun 21, 2012)

here we go finally going to get another bisping moment but that little bit more enjoyable seeing as it will be edgar:thumb02:


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

slapshot said:


> Aldo has more power than BJ? He's a better striker than anyone Edgar has fought but he couldn't put kenflo away and looked unimpressive? He's faster than Edgar you say?
> 
> He's probably a better grappler than Jim Miller and BJ too right?
> 
> Eddie Alvarez has both quicker hands and more power in his punches than Aldo.


Here is the thing its hard to pin point a flaw in Jose Aldo as he is an elite talent such as Jones, Silva,etc. You can say he is flaw, but facts are he has not lost in years. AS, Jon Jones both are flaw people use those flaws as a reason for them to lose a fight, however they also have never lost. 


We can debate every aspect of this fight, but you will not get anywhere. As I view Aldo as a special talent such as Jon Jones, Anderson Silva, etc. I just don't see Edgar winning this fight. I don't think he can KO/TKO Aldo, I don't think he can keep Aldo down or take him down. Even if he is super competitive that the outcome is warrant a decision. History has shown Edgar can't get a decision. 

In this fight I believe Aldo will use those kicks, if Benson was effective, Jose Aldo surely will be. Where will Edgar's head be in this fight, he is coming off two close decision which he thought he won. In two months fights a man who is fighting in Brazil, you know Jose Aldo will show up the best he has. There is a sense of Pride with Brazilians fighting in their home country. Everything points to aldo walking out of Brazil as the champ.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

And there goes another one of these "I'll wait for the title shot" guys. Don't be surprised if Condit gets injured soon. It's the MMA God trying to make things right.

Great fight though and the fight everyone wanted to see. Aldo really has to bring it this time. There won't be any resting phases against Edgar.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Nightmare match up for Frankie, and this is in Brazil.

Jose Aldo will not lose in Brazil. He's going to murder Frankie Edgar in his home country and then dive into the crowd and go wild.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

This is the first time Edgar will be fighting sombody quicker...haha. I'd say Aldo will leg kick em to oblivion, but he's got some pretty good training already going against Bendo. By now he should know how to check or counter those kicks. 

I don't know how this fight will unravel. It's a very tough bout to place any bets on. Edgar will be significantly stronger in my opinion especially in the clinch and in the top position. He could very well grind Aldo like Hominick did in the championship rounds. 

One thing Edgar can not do is NOT respect Aldo's power. Edgar always gets beat up somehow, but with a solid game plan it's going to be a very good fight for the fans!


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

Undeniably excited by this new matchup. However I wonder what would happen to Edgar's career should he lose again. I would prefer to see Edgar getting accustomed to his new weight class before taking on a monster like Jose Aldo. 

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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

A loss would mentally break Edgar. I hope he rips a new one to Aldo.


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

Good fight. I would love for Aldo to KO him. Probably the only fight lower than LW I will care about for a long time. By Dana saying Edgar stepped up like a stud, he means the division sucks so he went to Edgar right away, lol.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Was Koch visiting Jersey when the undisclosed injury took place?

Fingers crossed for my boy Frankie, this should be a good 'un.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Lmao at everyone acting like aldo knocking Edgar out is a forgone conclusion. Edgar went 10 rounds with bj penn. Edgar may not be as precise a striker but I am 100% convinced that his hand speed surpasses Aldo's. 


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> lol Frankie Edgar has never faced a fighter like Aldo before, a fighter much faster than he is. Then combine that Aldo is a better striker and has a lot more KO power than anybody Edgar has faces thus far. Edgar will be KOed for the first time in his career.
> 
> I don't see anywhere where Edgar has an advantage or could win.


You say this like Aldo has ever faced a fighter like Frankie. And a skinny crap version of Kenflo doesn't count. Who has Aldo beaten to make you think he is better? There isn't anyone.

This post is irrelevant when Frankie has the more impressive record.


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## killua (Mar 4, 2012)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> Lol. Pretty sure aldo is the best striker edgar has ever faced, and the most knock out power edgar has ever faced.
> 
> Predicted aldo by knock out rd 1 or 2.
> 
> EDIT : What happens to edgar if he loses?


When Edgar loses he will put it down to taking the fight at short notice and it being the first time fighting in a new weight class, and ask for an immediate rematch.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

'Losing a title match and then getting an immediate shot at the championship in a division he's never fought in makes the UFC look like a three ring circus,' said all of the hypocritical, now proven to be biased Chael Sonnen haters who are creaming themselves in this thread. 

That valid, yet soon to be dismissed by those very same haters in a failed attempt to make themselves look less foolish point aside, I look forward to this fight.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Edgar by ko.

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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Lmao at everyone acting like aldo knocking Edgar out is a forgone conclusion. Edgar went 10 rounds with bj penn. Edgar may not be as precise a striker but I am 100% convinced that his hand speed surpasses Aldo's.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using VS Free


Going 10 rounds with BJ doesn't negate the fact that Edgar was sent for a loop - twice - by Gray Maynard. It isn't a stretch that Aldo could completely put him out, though you're correct to say that this isn't a forgone conclusion. Few things in MMA are.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

I think Aldo's striking is far better than Edgars. That being said, this will be one of the most exciting Edgar fights in a while.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I think Aldo's striking is far better than Edgars. That being said, this will be one of the most exciting Edgar fights in a while.


Don't ever doubt Edgar's ability to make a fight an overall uneventful fight.

Still, I do think this should turn into a great war. If Aldo tries to slow down in the later rounds like he typically does and hasn't taken Edgars legs out from underneath him he could find himself in a bad spot. At the same time, if Aldo does wreck those legs I can see Edgar getting destroyed. 

Very interesting match up overall.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Canadian Psycho said:


> 'Losing a title match and then getting an immediate shot at the championship in a division he's never fought in makes the UFC look like a three ring circus,' said all of the hypocritical, now proven to be biased Chael Sonnen haters who are creaming themselves in this thread.
> 
> That valid, yet soon to be dismissed by those very same haters in a failed attempt to make themselves look less foolish point aside, I look forward to this fight.


Frankie hasn't earned a title shot, and in a perfect world wouldn't be getting it. But your comparison is hollow for a number of reasons:

1. Frankie is a former champ, and is coming off a SD loss. Chael just got finished.


2. Frankie is moving _to_ his natural weight class. I'll be less annoyed if Rashad gets a title shot for the same reason (along with being a former champ.) Chael got kicked out of his.

3. LHW still has contenders. A couple of them actually turned down the fight. FW is so thin Frankie is replacing Erik Koch, who's previous fight was a prelim fight. The situation is more comparable to HW where Cain isn't fighting for the title because he deserves it, so much as no one in the division deserves it more. I think KZ should be ahead of Frankie in line for the shot, but he's the only one. And presumably Aldo is fighting Koch because Jung didn't want that fight yet. That said the UFC should have contacted him first. I don't know if they did.

4. Granted, this is of less consequence, but Dana White has publicly stated that Chael wouldn't talk his way into a title fight, and then granted him that title fight when his own incompetence led to a blown card. He then blamed the whole thing on Jones and everyone lapped that Kool-Aid up.

Try to rise above the urge to say I'm trying to make myself seem less foolish, and tell me why those points don't invalidate your comparison, if you can.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> If Edgar jab and jogs his way to a decision I'm going to flip the **** out.
> 
> Here's to Aldo kicking his legs out and smashing his face in.
> 
> Sent from my Desire HD using VerticalSports.Com App


Aldo is hardly exciting these days is he?

Edgar is going to maul him.

WAR FRANKIE


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Sports_Nerd said:


> Frankie hasn't earned a title shot, and in a perfect world wouldn't be getting it. But your comparison is hollow for a number of reasons:
> 
> 1. Frankie is a former champ, and is coming off a SD loss. Chael just got finished.
> 
> ...


I could accept that if the overwhelming response to Chael's title shot wasn't simply the one liner that I posted earlier. But alas, that is not the case. You may have put more thought in where others have not, and kudos to you, but that doesn't alter the fact that on the whole *'a MW who lost his last fight getting an immediate title shot at LHW is nonsense!'* was precisely what news of Sonnen vs. Jones was met with. You've offered some valid reasoning, which others will adopt in a sad attempt to validate their earlier cries of foul. The fact of the matter is that we've got a LW, defeated in his last two outings, stepping down to a weight class he's never fought in and getting an immediate title shot. That is exactly the issue most took with Sonnen's getting a title match. Don't try to deny that, as I can dig up a barrage of threads to prove that point. 


1) A loss is a loss. Chael may have been finished, but Frankie is coming off of two losses in a row. The previous loss was arguably controversial, but two straight losses is two straight losses. 

2) Why is this Frankie's natural weight class? Have you seen him fight at 145 before? Or are you simply drinking Dana's Kool Aid? Frankie's natural weight class is LW, but in today's modern world of MMA, fighting in your natural weight class has come to mean fighting a weight below your natural weight class. Frankie is a born LW fighting in a division filled with WWs attempting to pass themselves off as LWs. Frankie doesn't have to cut to make 155, but he'll have to cut to make 145. The former implies 'natural weight class'. 

3) Fair point, yet one completely invalidated by the fact that Vitor Belfort is now the front runner for the LWH championship. For that long line of LHW contenders, Jon Jones will still end up facing a MW who hasn't fought at LHW in years. And while Vitor may have at least won his previous fight, Sonnen took the greatest fighter of our generation to the limit, something no one (not even Vitor) has done. That and Sonnen is actually making the move to LHW, whereas I suspect Vitor's move will be a one time deal. 

4) Dana, the UFC, Jon Jones, and Greg Jackson are all to blame. Jon Jones is the first ever UFC champion to turn down a fight. He's more concerned with his endorsements than fighting and warrior spirit. And he obviously doesn't have that 'fight anyone, anytime' attitude that he's come right out and stated he has. I absolutely blame the UFC for putting together such a thin card, but to claim that Jon Jones doesn't deserve some heat himself is just plain wrong.


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## Hooligan222 (Jun 26, 2011)

Edgar has never faced a striker as good as Aldo. 
BJ Penn - awesome boxing technique, but he rarely uses kicks and isn't the fastest puncher.
Gray Maynard - not a striker, he has power and some technique, but he rarely throws any combos and is very slow. But he still managed to tag Edgar with some hard shots.
Bendo - Good kicks and that's it. His hands aren't very good, but he still managed to tag Edgar many times.

Aldo has excellent hands, excellent kicks and knees. Combine that with good timing, precise striking, massive KO power, elite BJJ and probably the best TDD in MMA. He is the complete package.

Aldo by KO rd2.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

marcthegame said:


> Here is the thing its hard to pin point a flaw in Jose Aldo as he is an elite talent such as Jones, Silva,etc. You can say he is flaw, but facts are he has not lost in years. AS, Jon Jones both are flaw people use those flaws as a reason for them to lose a fight, however they also have never lost.
> 
> 
> We can debate every aspect of this fight, but you will not get anywhere. As I view Aldo as a special talent such as Jon Jones, Anderson Silva, etc. I just don't see Edgar winning this fight. I don't think he can KO/TKO Aldo, I don't think he can keep Aldo down or take him down. Even if he is super competitive that the outcome is warrant a decision. History has shown Edgar can't get a decision.
> ...


Jon Jones and Anderson Silva have demolished fighters that are not only tough for their divisions but tough for anybody to beat and some of the pound for pound best fighters in our era, to think Aldo has earned that kind of prestige fighting the level of competition he's fought is a delusional fallacy.

I'm not saying he's not good its obvious he is, we just don't know how good. 

I think Frankie can take Aldo down and Sherk him. I think he can land hard strikes that hurt him and I don't think Aldo has better timing, speed or precision in his hands. 

If I'm Edgar and Aldo starts with leg kicks I'd take him down. I think if Aldo fades in the latter rounds he'll get took to the woodshed. 

Its possible he could get a huge shot in and stop Frankie but I doubt it. I'll also doubt Aldo until he beats Frankie moves up, fights and wins against top competition in the lightweight division. Until then he doesn't deserve to be called a elite fighter or legendary.

The only thing that Jose Aldo does that's better than Henderson is kick and Edgar should have had his hand raised in that fight. 

The problem with Aldo in my opinion is that he's been beating up scrubs for so long that people have forgotton he's been beating up scrubs for so long. Kenflo was a quality fighter who was never a champion caliber fighter. A win over him in that weight division means something but I don't know what exactly considering the circumstances.

As I stated before Edgar has faced a more dangerous striker in Eddie Alvarez daily in practice but Aldo is going to blow his doors off? W/E


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Awesome fight, I don't think Frankie wants to fight Aldo on the ground, he will land his shots but Aldo will overpower him on the feet. Leg kick clinic definitely possible here.

I don't mind Edgar getting this opportunity, FW isn't huge and I thought he should have got the nod against Bendo. Can't wait for this.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

slapshot said:


> Jon Jones and Anderson Silva have demolished fighters that are not only tough for their divisions but tough for anybody to beat and some of the pound for pound best fighters in our era, to think Aldo has earned that kind of prestige fighting the level of competition he's fought is a delusional fallacy.
> 
> I'm not saying he's not good its obvious he is, we just don't know how good.
> 
> ...


The only way we will solve this is watching the fight. Here is the thing you bring up Alvarez, but Jose Aldo trains with guys that make Alvarez look like an amateur striker such as Anderson Silva, Machida,etc.

The thing is we really don't know how good Jose Aldo is, however I have herd people give him the highest of praises such as Anderson SIlva, Gray Maynard,etc. 

I don't like playing MMA math, but Aldo is the favorite to win this fight by the bookies. I believe he will win this fight as he has been on a tear since 2006.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

You said he was on the same plane as Silva and Jones, thats a separate topic from the fight with Edgar. 

I just explained why he's not, although I'm leaving the door open. You really can't rationally justify putting him on that plateau until he's beat a bunch of top guys and he hasn't.

Jose Aldo has reigned supreme in one of the weakest divisions in the WEC and the UFC. When I look at his record, I see a bunch of wins over people that a good fighter should beat. I don't see any marquis matchups that establish him as a legend.

You also said Frankie Edgar has never fought a striker with as much speed and power as Aldo has and that's why I brought up Alvarez.

Penn and Alvarez at LW have just as much power in their hands as Aldo and Eddie is probably faster or at least comparable to Aldo.


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## Ryan1522 (Oct 31, 2006)

Love it! 

Aldo's got his work cut out for him, but I think he has more ways to win.

Aldo FTW.

My prediction from the 2012 prediction contest is going to come true haha.

2) Jose Aldo will defeat Frankie Edgar in 2012 for the FW title.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

slapshot said:


> The only thing that Jose Aldo does that's better than Henderson is kick and Edgar should have had his hand raised in that fight.


Way off, man. Henderson striking nowhere near Aldo's and plus Aldo's is a BJJ master on the ground.

Like said in another tread about Anderson fits well here: Everybody beats Aldo until they don't.

Amazing ppl describing past Aldo opponents as lame. C'mon, Faber, Brown, Mendes are soft?

Anyway. Great fight to come.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Way off, man. Henderson striking nowhere near Aldo's and plus Aldo's is a BJJ master on the ground.
> 
> Like said in another tread about Anderson fits well here: Everybody beats Aldo until they don't.
> 
> ...


They aren't bad wins but they certainly aren't Frankie's level. Faber has always been my favorite fighter and Mendes is awesome, but they would not do nearly as well fighting people like Edgar or even the people Edgar was fighting.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I'd actually really like to see Faber vs. Edgar. Shame Urijah dropped down.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

HitOrGetHit said:


> They aren't bad wins but they certainly aren't Frankie's level.


I really don't get this "Frankie's level". The guy is a runner. Very fast, on running around. Most fights he's unable to finish having only 3 KO's, 10 less than Aldo. He went 10 rounds with BJ, all right, but BJ was already very inconsistent in his performances and was outrunned again.

Never understood have a runner like Edgar being ever considered for a P4P best, weird.






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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> 'Losing a title match and then getting an immediate shot at the championship in a division he's never fought in makes the UFC look like a three ring circus,' said all of the hypocritical, now proven to be biased Chael Sonnen haters who are creaming themselves in this thread.
> 
> That valid, yet soon to be dismissed by those very same haters in a failed attempt to make themselves look less foolish point aside, I look forward to this fight.


*cough* two title fights *cough*



This is my exact thoughts on this fight too. Well said.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

Should be a great match.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Way off, man. Henderson striking nowhere near Aldo's and plus Aldo's is a BJJ master on the ground.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using VS Free


 Jose Aldo is a black belt in BJJ, do you know what a Dan or degree is? All a black belt means is that you've mastered the basics and are now working on technique and advanced moves it doesn't speak to aptitude.

What jujitsu accolades are on Aldo's shelf? Who has he submitted to justify the idea he's hell on wheels on the ground? 

Again I'm not saying he's inept on the floor but with only one sub on his record and no Jujitsu accolades I'm not willing to call him "master" or "grandmaster" usually such titles are given by a sanctioning body such as the USJA for judo for example. 

All these assumptions about Aldo are unproven that's all I'm saying. He could be a wiz but we don't know that. 

I do expect a good fight but dudes not Superman.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

slapshot said:


> All a black belt means is that you've mastered the basics and are now working on technique and advanced moves it doesn't speak to aptitude.


Can't proceed with any argument after that. Whatever, man...


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Can't proceed with any argument after that. Whatever, man...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using VS Free


He has a point man. Who isn't a bjj black belt anymore?

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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

I know you can't, because its the truth. That statement comes directly from Jim Harrison in his judo class and I'm not trying to chastise you I'm just telling you what I was taught in class.


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## BOMDC (Feb 13, 2011)

slapshot said:


> Jose Aldo is a black belt in BJJ, do you know what a Dan or degree is? All a black belt means is that you've mastered the basics and are now working on technique and advanced moves it doesn't speak to aptitude.
> 
> *What jujitsu accolades are on Aldo's shelf? Who has he submitted to justify the idea he's hell on wheels on the ground? *
> 
> ...




Huh, guess being a World Champion and Brazilian National champion among numerous other achivements doesn't count as an accolade in the sport. You make it sound like a black belt isn't much and is the same for every BJJ camp.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Life B Ez said:


> He has a point man. Who isn't a bjj black belt anymore?


You are not. Otherwise would not even listen to such utter ignorance. 

A black belt under Carlson Gracie and Dedé Pederneiras, true Jiu Jitsu legends, would only need to prove his credentials to utter ignorants. Oh, wait, maybe I should list their accolades too. 

Because Aldo prefers to strike these BJJ "experts" jump into lame conclusions. 

In Brazil, many Blue belts have mastered all the basics for your info. 





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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

BOMDC said:


> Huh, guess being a World Champion and Brazilian National champion among numerous other achivements doesn't count as an accolade in the sport. You make it sound like a black belt isn't much and is the same for every BJJ camp.


A black belt in judo from here means you spent a lot of time learning a variety of moves and it takes years but when you see a yellow belt tap a black belt that's aptitude, your belt can't speak to that. 

I've looked around on a few sites and not been able to find any World Championship he holds or any tournament video. I actually think I herd a reference to a national title in the past but cant find it either. Could you source that for me, I'd greatly appreciate it.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> You are not. Otherwise would not even listen to such utter ignorance.
> 
> A black belt under Carlson Gracie and Dedé Pederneiras, true Jiu Jitsu legends, would only need to prove his credentials to utter ignorants. Oh, wait, maybe I should list their accolades too.
> 
> ...


No I'm not black belt you are correct. But I am a brown belt, which if I had to take a wild guess is a higher rank than you hold. I also never said a thing about Aldos ground game, only that having a black belt isn't a sign of being a monster on the mat in Mma, because everyone who steps out ther anymore seems to have a black belt. Also are you from or have you been to brazil lately? I'm just curious how you know what blue belts are mastering or how you are qualified to say what they are mastering. Not to mention bjj is a lot about proving your abilities, this isn't ancient kung fu where you don't show what you have unless you are going to die. 

He has a point in saying that Aldos game might be good, but we have zero reason to say that he is a nightmare on the ground because we have not seen it. The only time he has spent considerable time on the ground was in the fifth against hominick.

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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I have a black belt... in the good looks department.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Well you can have your black belt, I'm the champ of that division. I'm like Jon Jones without the bitching, came up quickly and didn't need credentials to do it. 

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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

So now Frankie has a chance to the official FW Champ, and the Unofficial (Should be) LW Champ... pretty cool!!! Get em' Frank!


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> You are not. Otherwise would not even listen to such utter ignorance.
> 
> A black belt under Carlson Gracie and Dedé Pederneiras, true Jiu Jitsu legends, would only need to prove his credentials to utter ignorants. Oh, wait, maybe I should list their accolades too.
> 
> ...


We had a blue belt Gracie fighter come train with us until he got in a car wreck and he was very good. He went to the state games with us and made his way to the gold metal event in jujitsu where he was tapped by one of our green belts and ended up with a silver medal.

I agree the Gracies provide a high level of solid instruction and I also think you make a good point that Aldo likes to stand. 

However, I don't agree that anyone that has a Gracie BB is going to be able to run rough shot over everyone else in mma especially top fighters in the UFC like Edgar just because they got there belt from a creditable school. 

This is mma and some guys can take the skills they learned in jitz and be able to adapt them to the sport, some guys have a harder time being dangerous submission fighters at this level in mma.

I'm not a bjj expert or a judo expert I'm simply a low level judokan.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Life B Ez said:


> No I'm not black belt you are correct. But I am a brown belt, which if I had to take a wild guess is a higher rank than you hold...... Also are you from or have you been to brazil lately? I'm just curious how you know what blue belts are mastering or how you are qualified to say what they are mastering.


What a childish move. Outranking me over the keyboard... Maybe they are giving away Black belts where you live so I understand why you thought that is no big deal.

Yeah, I've been in Brazil recently. Actually I've been in Brazil today, and also yesterday and the day before and for the other guy who is speaking for his Judo teacher to make ultimate remarks about Jiu Jitsu, in Brazil, most Jiu Jitsu blue belts and ALL purple belts will finish a Judo black belt, after being thrown to the ground, of course.




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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> What a childish move. Outranking me over the keyboard... Maybe they are giving away Black belts where you live so I understand why you thought that is no big deal.
> 
> Yeah, I've been in Brazil recently. Actually I've been in Brazil today, and also yesterday and the day before and for the other guy who is speaking for his Judo teacher to make ultimate remarks about Jiu Jitsu, in Brazil, most Jiu Jitsu blue belts and ALL purple belts will finish a Judo black belt, after being thown on the ground, of course.


As a student of Relson Gracie and a judo black belt I would like to point out that you don't know a god damned thing about what you are talking about.


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

this should be good. hopefully aldo looks for that left hook that edgar tends to eat. 

aldo takes this imo, edgar losses the speed advantage and gets beat down, though i dont think he will get finished.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> As a student of Relson Gracie and a judo black belt I would like to point out that you don't know a god damned thing about what you are talking about.


Man, all of this is a reaction about the previous statement about a black belt in BJJ just had mastered the basics as stated by a Judo instructor. BJJ and Judo are very different Martial Arts. Anybody know how efficient BJJ can be in very little time of full dedicated training. I never intended to disrespect Judo, though, which I like a lot. 


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

I'm still waiting to hear your rank sir. You sem to know what people have mastered, I would assume for you to say that a blue has something you're at least a purple.

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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

slapshot said:


> I've looked around on a few sites and not been able to find any World Championship he holds or any tournament video. I actually think I herd a reference to a national title in the past but cant find it either. Could you source that for me, I'd greatly appreciate it.


Here goes a link about Aldo's records and history:

http://www.bjjheroes.com/bjj-fighters/jose-aldo


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Thanks mang.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

This sounds like a nightmare match up for Jose honestly.

He could barely deal with Florian's wrestling. 

Edgar's strength (wrestling) is Aldo's weakness and Aldo's strength is (striking) isn't that far ahead of Frankie's.

I've got Edgar by decision.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Life B Ez said:


> I'm still waiting to hear your rank sir. You sem to know what people have mastered, I would assume for you to say that a blue has something you're at least a purple.


Man, this is an anonymous forum. We come to debate ideas. I could tell you I am a black belt, that I have my own students in my own Gym. That would not make me failproof or above the truth. That's why makes no difference if you are telling the truth or not about your brown belt. I think is pointless to state ranks knowing most people who comes here are amateur enthusiasts and we all share the same enthusiasm for fighing sports.

If the idea will make sense, I'll buy it. If I shall be convinced wrong, I'll change my mind, but I just strongly disagree that a black belt mastered only the basics. That's not true.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Man, all of this is a reaction about the previous statement about a black belt in BJJ just had mastered the basics as stated by a Judo instructor. BJJ and Judo are very different Martial Arts. Anybody know how efficient BJJ can be in very little time of full dedicated training. I never intended to disrespect Judo, though, which I like a lot.


Except that his definition of a black belt is the exact same one the Gracie's espouse. A black belt was always a sign that you had mastered the basic moves enough to teach them. That is all it signifies. I can beat several of the black belts I know but I don't know as much about the art as they do. Which is why they have a black belt and I do not.

One of the blue belts I train with can submit Robin Geese regularly but can he teach at that level or does he know as much as Robin? Not at all. Why is why Robin has the black belt and he does not.

The black belt is a sign of knowledge and time put in. It is not a symbol of aptitude. This is how the Gracie's teach it and I will take the words of the highest ranked member of the family that invented bjj over yours.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

deadmanshand said:


> Except that his definition of a black belt is the exact same one the Gracie's espouse. A black belt was always a sign that you had mastered the basic moves enough to teach them. That is all it signifies. I can beat several of the black belts I know but I don't know as much about the art as they do. Which is why they have a black belt and I do not.
> 
> One of the blue belts I train with can submit Robin Geese regularly but can he teach at that level or does he know as much as Robin? Not at all. Why is why Robin has the black belt and he does not.
> 
> The black belt is a sign of knowledge and time put in. It is not a symbol of aptitude. This is how the Gracie's teach it and I will take the words of the highest ranked member of the family that invented bjj over yours.


Thank you. That's what I've been saying and that's my point with his rank. He says people have master moves or someone else is a master on the mat, but he could possibly be a white belt. How can you as a person know less about something but think you can look at someone who's spent so little time on the ground and say he is a master when you don't even know what a master is.


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## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

Ari said:


> Edgar is coming off of two losses, and is getting a title shot in a division he has never fought in?
> 
> Hahah. Wow.
> 
> ...


I was rooting my ass off for Bendo to win their last match, and I don't like Edgar, but to be fair I thought Frankie did enough to win. With that in mind, I personally don't have any issues with him getting an immediate title shot at 145. It is a fight a lot of fans wanted to see for a while, and I am one of those fans who wanted to see this fight.

Plus, myself I really like Aldo's fighting style and will say I am a fan, and see him blasting Frankie out of the water. BUt as we all know, anything can happen, and never seeing Frankie at 145, I have no clue how he will perform, so it will be very interesting to watch.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> Except that his definition of a black belt is the exact same one the Gracie's espouse. A black belt was always a sign that you had mastered the basic moves enough to teach them. That is all it signifies. I can beat several of the black belts I know but I don't know as much about the art as they do. Which is why they have a black belt and I do not.
> 
> One of the blue belts I train with can submit Robin Geese regularly but can he teach at that level or does he know as much as Robin? Not at all. Why is why Robin has the black belt and he does not.
> 
> The black belt is a sign of knowledge and time put in. It is not a symbol of aptitude. This is how the Gracie's teach it and I will take the words of the highest ranked member of the family that invented bjj over yours.


I agree, but the basics from a real master point of view is different from those who are still climbing the steps. When taken serious, it's a long way while you move through belts. A real master stating a black belt just achieved the point he'll start to really learn is something almost phillosofical we all heard about, but to get to a black belt is a lot of hard work and before that while you are still at lower ranks, to compete and win championships is not something to make less of.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> What a childish move. Outranking me over the keyboard... Maybe they are giving away Black belts where you live so I understand why you thought that is no big deal.
> 
> Yeah, I've been in Brazil recently. Actually I've been in Brazil today, and also yesterday and the day before and for the other guy who is speaking for his Judo teacher to make ultimate remarks about Jiu Jitsu, in Brazil, most Jiu Jitsu blue belts and ALL purple belts will finish a Judo black belt, after being thrown to the ground, of course.
> 
> ...


 Are all Brazilians as arrogant and cluless as you? Jim's school website is in my sig. I think you'll find that back in his day he would have and did wipe the floor with fighters from many disciplines including bjj practitioners. 

He has also been awarded with top honors for his teachings many times over. 

Anyway I obviously feel Frankie should attempt to take Aldo down and beat the snot out of him. I can't wait for this fight!


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Life B Ez said:


> Thank you. That's what I've been saying and that's my point with his rank. He says people have master moves or someone else is a master on the mat, but he could possibly be a white belt. How can you as a person know less about something but think you can look at someone who's spent so little time on the ground and say he is a master when you don't even know what a master is.


Lame you are. Go find a forum specific for self proclaimed experts. I reckon I have made a bad comparison between BJJ and Judo back there, but your insistency in highlight your BROWN BELT over other people possible white belts(most people probably)is so childish I have to say if you really have a brown belt you've learnt nothing about the humility that shoud go along your curriculum.



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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

slapshot said:


> Are all Brazilians as arrogant as you?


When it comes to BJJ, hells yes. Consider yourself lucky you don't know that already.

Take that back. Not all of them, but most of the traditional Gracie guys are. They have a seriously elitist attitude about their BJJ. Never met one I liked and they always are trying to hurt people on the mat in my experience.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

slapshot said:


> Are all Brazilians as arrogant as you?


No, I am not arrogant. That was a bad call and I take it back.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Life B Ez said:


> When it comes to BJJ, hells yes. Consider yourself lucky you don't know that already.
> 
> Take that back. Not all of them, but most of the traditional Gracie guys are. They have a seriously elitist attitude about their BJJ. Never met one I liked and they always are trying to hurt people on the mat in my experience.


I agree with you here. That's a sad fact, but not general. However this is what you are doing right now by showing off your brown belt in an amateur forum.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Lame you are. Go find a forum specific for self proclaimed experts. I reckon I have made a bad comparison between BJJ and Judo back there, but your insistency in highlight your BROWN BELT over other people possible white belts(most people probably)is so childish I have to say if you really have a brown belt you've learnt nothing about the humility that shoud go along your curriculum.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using VS Free


And yet you continue to not address anything I've said outside of "brown belt." You don't understand what I've been trying to say. And you forgot that I was even talking about Jose Aldo's black belt. I also did not say anything about my rank until you told me I didn't know anything because I wasn't a black belt. You truly don't understand the points I've been trying to make that are on the topic of this thread.

Honestly I could give a **** about anything to do with Gracie JJ. Martial arts is an athletic endeavor and that is why I do it. It has nothing to do with being one with the world and humility. I have respect for those that have earned it and I treat those that haven't with common human decency. I don't train for the philosophy. 


Also it's learned.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Life B Ez said:


> When it comes to BJJ, hells yes. Consider yourself lucky you don't know that already.
> 
> Take that back. Not all of them, but most of the traditional Gracie guys are. They have a seriously elitist attitude about their BJJ. Never met one I liked and they always are trying to hurt people on the mat in my experience.


I've met Relson, Royce, and Renzo Gracie and all three are cool guys. They want - and deserve - respect but they're not arrogant assholes and never once did they try to hurt somebody on the mat. Neither did Renato Tavares when I trained with him. In fact I've never dealt with anyone who acted like this from Brazil.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

deadmanshand said:


> I've met Relson, Royce, and Renzo Gracie and all three are cool guys. They want - and deserve - respect but they're not arrogant assholes and never once did they try to hurt somebody on the mat. Neither did Renato Tavares when I trained with him. In fact I've never dealt with anyone who acted like this from Brazil.


I wasn't counting any of the well known guys. And I was speaking just from personal experience. I don't doubt that they were nice guys at all.

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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> Also it's learned.



You are the one who is right in this little debate...but learnt is commonly used in Britain there interchangeable here... probably in the other commonwealth countries like Canada, Australia too. 

anyway....carry on :laugh:


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Life B Ez said:


> I also did not say anything about my rank until you told me I didn't know anything because I wasn't a black belt. You truly don't understand the points I've been trying to make that are on the topic of this thread.


Scroll back and you will find I never said you don't know anything. Maybe I did not understand you. It looks like I was not alone. It happens all the time. 

I can't try to raise respect for a black belt disrespecting another black belt. 

I'll tell you all a story. Back in the 90's, Ji Jitsu became to grow fast in Brazil. It was unknown and so efficient, in a few months the students could develop umbelievable submissions technics for the time. Well, we all know "with great power comes great risponsibility", right? Well, risponsibility should wait. The kids had to have fun for now.

What happened was lots os fights in night clubs, shopping malls, beaches, public places were initiated by those BJJ patictioners, including beat ups of Black Belts of other martial arts who were challenged in their own gyms, in front of theirs students. 

That gave Jiu Jitsu a terrible name in Brazil and even today the prejudice is present due to those events. Little by little, the art have been organized and bad students spelled from their schools by their masters. 

Remember how it was during the first UFCs, with the world watching in desbelief tiny thin Royce doing all that against those giants? Now imagine that multiplied by xxxxx I don't know all over the streets perpetrated by super skilled kids with no education.

Point is: A purple belt in BJJ is no joke, not mention a Black belt, even not being a master per se. 
Today, everybody knows how to defend themselves from BJJ by training BJJ.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

I am so ******* confused by that. I'm checking out its late.

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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

MMA-Sportsman - that post has so little connection to anybody's points in this thread that it's somewhat mind boggling.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Ok, guys. Let it be.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Who the hell is this guy....

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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Scroll back and you will find I never said you don't know anything. Maybe I did not understand you. It looks like I was not alone. It happens all the time.
> 
> I can't try to raise respect for a black belt disrespecting another black belt.
> 
> ...



Lol you act like JJ is the be all end all art in a street fight.

I would probably wreck the shit out of someone if they tried to pull some JJ on me in the streets. I personally would be TERRIFIED to put someone in a armbar on the concrete. I could get the back of my head caved in. And rolling around on the concrete would hurt like a bitch in itself. 

And i personally have no qualms about punching someone in the dick if it would help me escape a hold.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Life B Ez said:


> Who the hell is this guy


Who the hell are you, you twitt arrogant? I have backed up in a few things. What do you want? You are a kid. Period. You were misanderstood as well, but can't see 5 inches away from your ego. Who am I? Who is everybody, bozo? This is an anonymous forum. Anybody could be Rambo or a BROWN BELT.

I don't mind being right 100% of the time or understood 100% of the time as long I can learn something. 

You talk like you have the support of all other posters. 
Buzz off. I thought you have checked out already, kid. 


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> Lol you act like JJ is the be all end all art in a street fight.
> 
> I would probably wreck the shit out of someone if they tried to pull some JJ on me in the streets. I personally would be TERRIFIED to put someone in a armbar on the concrete. I could get the back of my head caved in. And rolling around on the concrete would hurt like a bitch in itself.
> 
> And i personally have no qualms about punching someone in the dick if it would help me escape a hold.


I am not acting like nobody. Just told a true story that happened in the past. 


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Who the hell are you, you twitt arrogant? I have backed up in a few things. What do you want? You are a kid. Period. You were misanderstood as well, but can't see 5 inches away from your ego. Who am I? Who is everybody, bozo? This is an anonymous forum. Anybody could be Rambo or a BROWN BELT.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Lol you act like JJ is the be all end all art in a street fight.
> 
> I would probably wreck the shit out of someone if they tried to pull some JJ on me in the streets. I personally would be TERRIFIED to put someone in a armbar on the concrete. I could get the back of my head caved in. And rolling around on the concrete would hurt like a bitch in itself.
> 
> And i personally have no qualms about punching someone in the dick if it would help me escape a hold.


I think it was Tuf 4 where a little fight broke out in the garden and someone locked in an armbar, over a concrete floor then was pissed he got his head slammed :laugh: 

My arm breaking or your head hitting the floor :confused02:


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Who the hell are you, you twitt arrogant? I have backed up in a few things. What do you want? You are a kid. Period. You were misanderstood as well, but can't see 5 inches away from your ego. Who am I? Who is everybody, bozo? This is an anonymous forum. Anybody could be Rambo or a BROWN BELT.
> 
> I don't mind being right 100% of the time or understood 100% of the time as long I can learn something.
> 
> ...


You're kind of coming off like an arrogant douchenozzle here. You haven't backed up anything. Neither of you really has because you've been arguing an opinion as opposed to a fact. The difference is one of you two has stayed on topic while the other posts increasingly arrogant/nonsensical rambles.


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## Tiptup (Mar 12, 2012)

what's up with Chan Sung Jung? I'd even rather Swanson or Oliveira have this fight over Edgar. It's a bit of a slap in the face for someone to lose a title match and rematch then drop down a division and immediately get another title fight. Especially after saying he wouldn't drop down for so long. Maybe if he loses to Aldo twice he'll fight Benavidez.


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## Hooligan222 (Jun 26, 2011)

I don't see why people still think that Aldo has problems with wrsetlers. I'll say it again, his TDD is one of if not the best in MMA. He was prepared for Florians takedowns, but he was not prepared for a fighter like Rick Story, who just holds people against the cage. Either way, he adjusted and won the fight. Mendes who is stronger and a better wrestler than Florian tried the same tactic against Aldo and ended up being KTFO...


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Tiptup said:


> what's up with Chan Sung Jung? I'd even rather Swanson or Oliveira have this fight over Edgar. It's a bit of a slap in the face for someone to lose a title match and rematch then drop down a division and immediately get another title fight. Especially after saying he wouldn't drop down for so long. Maybe if he loses to Aldo twice he'll fight Benavidez.


No idea with the zombie, I think he's fighting in China. But Swanson and oliveira are scheduled to fight one another at 152.

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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> You're kind of coming off like an arrogant douchenozzle here. You haven't backed up anything. Neither of you really has because you've been arguing an opinion as opposed to a fact. The difference is one of you two has stayed on topic while the other posts increasingly arrogant/nonsensical rambles.


What I ment was I moved back in a few things not that I have backing up my points. The whole thing was on the topic about Aldo's ground as a black belt, but got screwed. 




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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> I am not acting like nobody. Just told a true story that happened in the past.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using VS Free


Can i read where you found this "story"???


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> Can i read where you found this "story"???


I am an eye witness, but I'll link you to another debate. 

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f12/image-jiu-jitsu-2149455/index4.html

Anyway it's been said is off the topic.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Keep the bickering to yourselves. This thread is for the Aldo-Edgar discussion. 

Here's hoping Edgar smashes Aldo.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

god, never get in an arguement where you need to reference Sherdog on another MMA forum....it's a "beyond facepalm" moment.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

LizaG said:


> god, never get in an arguement where you need to reference Sherdog on another MMA forum....it's a "beyond facepalm" moment.


Question has been asked, a link source was provided. Your remark is pointless.


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## Zafersan (Nov 18, 2008)

WOOT, i get to see Frankie get KTFO!


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## valvolean (Jul 29, 2006)

I don't know why everybody thinks Aldo hits harder than Maynard.I think Frankie will do pretty well against him...As long as he can figure out the kicks.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Question has been asked, a link source was provided. Your remark is pointless.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using VS Free


A source that Is essentially, a bunch of similar MMA fans spouting opinions is not a reliable source.

Your source is pointless.

See, it's easy to be facetious on an Internet forum. :thumbsup:


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

While I would like to see Aldo lose, I really don't want to see Edgar join the ranks of Penn and Couture. And Hendo to a lesser extent.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Killz said:


> A source that Is essentially, a bunch of similar MMA fans spouting opinions is not a reliable source.
> 
> Your source is pointless.
> 
> See, it's easy to be facetious on an Internet forum. :thumbsup:


As an Admin, is this helping the debate? Is this about Aldo-Edgar? So let everybody know you, Admin, brought this up again.

Some people here prefer personal attacks and to discredit other posters. So nobody needs to believe nobody. Weird environment to debate with fellow enthusiasts.

I am the source of the story I told. I personally lived and witnessed those events. If these people not believing are in contact with any Brazilian coach/fighter out there this can easily confirmed. I just directed the link to the person who asked the question in the first place so he could see is a real subject discussed around. It look like it was enough for him, but you, Admin, if took your time to follow the link and read what others have to say, would not be back bothering me and everybody else with this type of inquisition.

Your intervention was pointless.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Hey not to take away from anything here but just so everyone knows. Again. I'm still batman.

Also about that fight at UFC 153... :thumb02:


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> As an Admin, is this helping the debate? Is this about Aldo-Edgar? So let everybody know you, Admin, brought this up again.
> 
> Some people here prefer personal attacks and to discredit other posters. So nobody needs to believe nobody. Weird environment to debate with fellow enthusiasts.
> 
> ...


A story that has not one iota of backing to it save the opinions and unbacked stories of posters on Sherdog. A website synonymous with bullshit in the mma community. The Admin was pointing out your behavior and not the story. Seriously is this your first time actually conversing with people who are willing to call you out on being an unmitigated asshat?


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

As deadmanshand said, it was more your attitude and aggressive nature towards other posters that I was talking about. I merely brought up your reference as a means to illustrate my point.

If you have anymore to say on this subject, feel free to PM me and I will happily discuss with you at length about what is, and is not acceptable when conversing with other members of the forum. 

Now... Did somebody mention something about a Featherweight title fight?

Back on topic.



Personally, I'm hoping for an Edgar win. I'd like to see him finish aldo but can't really see it happening. Aldo has the tools to hurt Frankie but he will need to be in better shape than his last few fights.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Killz said:


> If you have anymore to say on this subject, feel free to PM me and I will happily discuss with you at length about what is, and is not acceptable when conversing with other members of the forum.


If you all allow me, this cannot be a PM. 

I have just finished reading all the posts and I realized that I alone was responsible for how bad things ended up and additionally, I did fail to correct them in an appropriate manner. 

I reckon I was so on the edge this past days, for other things going on but NONE of you have nothing to do with that.

I did retreat in a few things but that's not enough. 
I would like at this point to officially and sincerally present my APPOLOGIES specifically to Life B EZ, deadmanshand, Kills, LisaG and extended to all others who were bothered for this events. 

I am sorry, guys.


Sent from my iPad using VS Free


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Kenflo is not a wrestler, he's a poor reference to bolster the opinion Aldo has extrem tdd. 

If Hominick can take you down its a good bet Edgar can. Thinking about it, out of all Aldos opponents Hominick has the most similar style to Edgar, Frankie is just better than Mark at everything.


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## Maazisrock (Sep 22, 2008)

leg kicks by aldo


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

slapshot said:


> Kenflo is not a wrestler, he's a poor reference to bolster the opinion Aldo has extrem tdd.
> 
> If Hominick can take you down its a good bet Edgar can. Thinking about it, out of all Aldos opponents Hominick has the most similar style to Edgar, Frankie is just better at everything than Mark.


Yeah, look what Aldo did to mark with a fever over 100 and a seriously bad weight cut. He was so sick he couldn't even sit at the press conference and he dropped the guy how many times? Watch the first two rounds of that fight before Aldo was done, it wasn't even competitive.

Sent from my Desire HD using VerticalSports.Com App


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Well Im struggling to find anyone Aldo has faced to compare to Edgar, he's as close as it gets even though there's a large ability gap between the two.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

slapshot said:


> Well Im struggling to find anyone Aldo has faced to compare to Edgar, he's as close as it gets even though there's a large ability gap between the two.


Well I think Frankie probably has better wrestling than Mendes, other than that Aldo has faced someone who is better than Frankie at everything. Homminick is a better striker, Florian has better bjj. That's only counting his Ufc fights. 

Honestly I see edgars shit footwork getting exposes with aldos kicks. So if I had to guess his shot is going to get slowed down badly. Frankie won't be able to catch aldos kicks they are way too fast. We haven't seen Frankie fight a guy as fast as him, he looks really fast at lw but now he's at FW, against one of the fastest guys in the Ufc.

Sent from my Desire HD using VerticalSports.Com App


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Frankie is gonna need to get Aldo down the first sign of a leg kick if he wants to last all 5 rounds, but when he gets Aldo down...then what?!


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Ok, Ive had a request to re-open this thread. 

Last chance. It goes off into a shit storm again and It'll be closed for good.


:thumbsup:


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## Hooligan222 (Jun 26, 2011)

Gray Maynard said he just couldn't take Aldo down. And Mendes is a very fast, strong and explosive wrestler and he didn't even come close to taking Aldo down.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

But then, Gray didnt really get Edgar down either


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## Hooligan222 (Jun 26, 2011)

He was too busy trying to knock Edgar's head off.  He didn't try that much.
Same like GSP vs Kos 2. Koschek took GSP down once and had no problems holding him there, but all of a sudden decided that it would be better to get jabbed in the face for 5 rounds.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Killz said:


> But then, Gray didnt really get Edgar down either


Its not like Aldo will try that...kind of an irrelevant point.


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## rebonecrusher (Nov 21, 2011)

If this fight does end up happening cause of course there is always a good chance of one of the guys getting injured before hand, it should be a wicked fight. Edgar will be the toughest test for Aldo to date. I believe Edgar should still be lightweight champion and I still consider him the best lightweight in the world. But Aldo might just be the best fighter in the world period. This fight will tell us alot about these two and its going to be hard to choose a winner.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Joabbuac said:


> Its not like Aldo will try that...kind of an irrelevant point.


I guess, Killz wanted to point out with his remark that Maynard isn't the biggest take down artist and thereby Aldo wasn't tested to the limit. It was not about Aldo trying to take down Edgar, but in the take down threat he faced in Maynard to test his take down defence. In that, Killz does have a relevant point.


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## Hooligan222 (Jun 26, 2011)

Gray is the best wrestler at LW, period. He just fell in love with his power, so he doesn't use his wrestling as much as he should. Many guys have this problem.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Life B Ez said:


> Well I think Frankie probably has better wrestling than Mendes, other than that Aldo has faced someone who is better than Frankie at everything. Homminick is a better striker, Florian has better bjj. That's only counting his Ufc fights.
> 
> Honestly I see edgars shit footwork getting exposes with aldos kicks. So if I had to guess his shot is going to get slowed down badly. Frankie won't be able to catch aldos kicks they are way too fast. We haven't seen Frankie fight a guy as fast as him, he looks really fast at lw but now he's at FW, against one of the fastest guys in the Ufc.
> 
> Sent from my Desire HD using VerticalSports.Com App


Kenflo never had Aldo anywhere he could attempt anything so his bjj never came into play if I remember right. 

Homminick is not a better striker than Edgar, less power, worse technique and a little more speed. I don't see his striking being better anyway. Come on dude Edgar has shit footwork? I disagree with that big time, his footwork is why he out points other fighters and it's saved his butt in every fight he's got into trouble in...


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Joabbuac said:


> Its not like Aldo will try that...kind of an irrelevant point.





Voiceless said:


> I guess, Killz wanted to point out with his remark that Maynard isn't the biggest take down artist and thereby Aldo wasn't tested to the limit. It was not about Aldo trying to take down Edgar, but in the take down threat he faced in Maynard to test his take down defence. In that, Killz does have a relevant point.


Got it in one. :thumbsup:


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Hooligan222 said:


> Gray is the best wrestler at LW, period. He just fell in love with his power, so he doesn't use his wrestling as much as he should. Many guys have this problem.


It happens indeed. Aldo prefers to stand and he made this choice over his JJ as he was being forged into a MMA fighter, as Vitor Belfort has multiple JJ championships and is seen basically as a striker because he loves to do it and do it well.

Edgar has fast footwork, but as already said, it only serves to outpoint opponents or get away, nerver enough to finish anything. He's not known as a finisher. If he gets to eat some of Aldo's leg kicks I presume he'll slow down and be in trouble. 



Sent from my iPad using VS Free


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

I think the big question is, 'Is Edgars footwork good enough to avoid getting caught with those nasty leg kicks?'


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Hooligan222 said:


> Same like GSP vs Kos 2. Koschek took GSP down once and had no problems holding him there, but all of a sudden decided that it would be better to get jabbed in the face for 5 rounds.


That's not quite what happened. Kos took GSP down at the end of the round with about 20 seconds left. GSP looked up at the clock and decided to just hold on till the end. In the second GSP broke Kos' orbital bone and his will. It's hard to do anything like that.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> That's not quite what happened. Kos took GSP down at the end of the round with about 20 seconds left. GSP looked up at the clock and decided to just hold on till the end. In the second GSP broke Kos' orbital bone and his will. It's hard to do anything like that.


Pretty much. Jon Fitch has made a career out of taking people down and holding them there with relative ease, GSP was able to escape in 10-20 seconds.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Sherk is the best MMA wrestler at LW, and Edgar is better than Maynard IMO.

BJ has better and proven tdd than Aldo and Edgar was able to take him down repeatedly.

Jon Fitch was lucky he didn't meet BJ at LW or BJ would not have gassed and Fitch would not have taken him down enough times to get the draw.

All I'm trying to illustrate with that is Bj Penn was able to stop Jon Fitch until bj gassed, but he was not gassed against Edgar and couldn't stop the TD.

And if you think Aldo has better TDD than BJ, you're wrong.


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## Hooligan222 (Jun 26, 2011)

Sherk who? He's fighting once in two years and is probably past his prime now anyways. And Maynard has taken down everyone he wanted to except Aldo, when he tries to, that is.

And how can you say that BJ's takedown defense is better, when Aldo hasn't been taken down in his recent fights? Well, except one trip in the Florian fight, if I remember correctly.


Ok, my bad. The GSP vs Kos fight was very long ago, so I might not remember what happened exactly. But I still think That Kos would had a lot better chance at winning, if he used his wrsetling more.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Hooligan222 said:


> Sherk who? And Maynard has taken down everyone he wanted to except Aldo, when he tries to, that is.


Outside of training anecdotes - which are notoriously unreliable - when has Maynard ever tried to take down Aldo? It's not like they've fought. It is pretty much a baseless statement.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Aldo hasn't fought anyone for us to be able to evaluate him by other than kenflo and I've never been impressed with florian and Aldo looked fairly unimpressive in that fight.

I guess all the straw house hype has turned me into a huge skeptic.

Ill admit he has been unstoppable to this point and he's looked great agenst his competition. I'm just not biting on the level of competition he's faced.


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## Hooligan222 (Jun 26, 2011)

deadmanshand said:


> Outside of training anecdotes - which are notoriously unreliable - when has Maynard ever tried to take down Aldo? It's not like they've fought. It is pretty much a baseless statement.



Coming from a fighter with as big an ego as Gray has, it means something. Mendes actually tried it in a fight, and we all know what happened to him.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

The thing that Frankie does better then Mendes or other Aldos opponents. He sets his takedowns up MUCH better. Frankie will go in there with quick hands and then shoot like it is part of the combo. It is something not alot of UFC fighters do well but Frankie is one of them.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

slapshot said:


> Aldo hasn't fought anyone for us to be able to evaluate him by other than kenflo and I've never been impressed with florian and Aldo looked fairly unimpressive in that fight..


That should work both ways. Difficult to take anything from Aldo's TDD ability. So far, so good in his tests. 
Inspite BJ's TDD being superb, I think he was unimpressive himself during his two encounters with Edgar. I would not use those two fights to judge BJ's. I was very disappointed with his performance. Maybe he was confused by Edgar fast footwork. I am curious to see if Edgar weight cut will work to improve even more his speed or will it impactate in his strengh/stamina.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> That should work both ways. Difficult to take anything from Aldo's TDD ability. So far, so good in his tests.
> Inspite BJ's TDD being superb, I think he was unimpressive himself during his two encounters with Edgar. I would not use those two fights to judge BJ's. I was very disappointed with his performance. Maybe he was confused by Edgar fast footwork. I am curious to see if Edgar weight cut will work to improve even more his speed or will it impactate in his strengh/stamina.


Valid point it swings both ways but I'm not claiming Aldo sucks based of past performances however there are quite a few people that view him as a candidate for p4p, I just got tired of the Aldo is a Demi God movement.

Its all speculation positive or negative.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

It's a while since Ive seen the Florian/Aldo fight but didnt KFlo get aldo down quite a few times?

I remember that fight was pretty close and I rate Frankie as a much better all round fighter than Kenny.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Hooligan222 said:


> Coming from a fighter with as big an ego as Gray has, it means something. Mendes actually tried it in a fight, and we all know what happened to him.


It means jack and/or shit coming from him. Teammates always talk up their training partners. Regardless of ego. 

And Mendes is a horrible mma wrestler. He doesn't set up his shot and doesn't have the stand up skill to do it effectively if he tried. Not to mention making a novice grappling mistake while clinching with Aldo that gave him all the room he needed to knee the idiot in the face.

We've seen Hominick and Ken Flo both get Aldo down. If they could do it Gray could. If he remembered he was a wrestler.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Killz said:


> It's a while since Ive seen the Florian/Aldo fight but didnt KFlo get aldo down quite a few times?
> 
> I remember that fight was pretty close and I rate Frankie as a much better all round fighter than Kenny.


I remember it being close as well, also KenFlo could press him against the cage with relative ease.


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## Hooligan222 (Jun 26, 2011)

deadmanshand said:


> It means jack and/or shit coming from him. Teammates always talk up their training partners. Regardless of ego.
> 
> We've seen Hominick and Ken Flo both get Aldo down. If they could do it Gray could. If he remembered he was a wrestler.


1) They're no teammates, Gray just went there to train to reinvent himself after those Frankie fights.
2) How can u possibly bring up the Homminick fight, when aldo was sick, had terrible weight cut, and basically allowed himself to get taken down and just chilled there. Florian got one takedown because Aldo tripped, 1 out of 19 ffs. And it's not like he held him there.
3) Mendes might not set up his shots like Frankie does, but he is stronger and more explosive. Chael Sonnen isn't setting up his takedowns either, but is considered by many the best wrestler in MMA. They both have that drive-through style, and manage to get their takedowns because of their strength and explosiveness. Frankie uses his striking to set up his takedowns and catch opponents off balance, but he hasn't got that brutal strength. Who knows, maybe that is the exact style to beat Aldo, but I really doubt that.



And as I said in one of my previous posts, Aldo was prepared to strike and stuff Florian's takedowns, but Florian went all Rick Story on his ass. At later rounds Aldo adjusted and managed to win the fight. And to prove my point, you saw what happened to the next guy who tried that tactic. Mistake, or no, he got KTFO.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Killz said:


> It's a while since Ive seen the Florian/Aldo fight but didnt KFlo get aldo down quite a few times?
> 
> I remember that fight was pretty close and I rate Frankie as a much better all round fighter than Kenny.


Frankie is better all round but id rate Kenny was the more well rounded striker with his elbows, knees and kicks coming into play. I dont think a boxing style based on lots of movement does well against Aldo. So Frankie has to get him down and keep him. Really interesting fight topping one of the best cards in a long time.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Joabbuac said:


> Frankie is better all round but id rate Kenny was the more well rounded striker with his elbows, knees and kicks coming into play. I dont think a boxing style based on lots of movement does well against Aldo. So Frankie has to get him down and keep him. Really interesting fight topping one of the best cards in a long time.


I can't fathom anyone calling kenflo a better striker in any regard. 

Kenflo by striking bouquet?


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

slapshot said:


> I can't fathom anyone calling kenflo a better striker in any regard.
> 
> Kenflo by striking bouquet?


You think Frankie is better with kicks and elbows? Honestly its more about the styles anyway, Kenflo has a more balanced Muay Thai focused attack


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Joabbuac said:


> You think Frankie is better with kicks and elbows? Honestly its more about the styles anyway, Kenflo has a more balanced Muay Thai focused attack


I think Frankie is much more technical at what he dose than kenflo is at what he dose.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

slapshot said:


> I think Frankie is much more technical at what he dose than kenflo is at what he dose.


Frankie is a better boxer, but boxing has proved to be a bad match for Aldo before. Frankie does do what he does better but what he does presents stylistic problems being that he relies on movement and quick punches while Aldo has destructive leg kicks and good punching power. 

Kenny's striking just matched up better overall than i predict Edgar's will.


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## meli083 (Mar 31, 2010)

Edgar via decision. I hope he makes history and becomes the third person to have two weight class belts.


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## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

As for the original discussion: I'm just not a fan of guys getting title shots with zero fights in a said division, regardless of their resumes.

Will I still pay to watch it? Of course.

Prediciton: Edgar via UD.

.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

H33LHooK said:


> As for the original discussion: I'm just not a fan of guys getting title shots with zero fights in a said division, regardless of their resumes.
> 
> Will I still pay to watch it? Of course.
> 
> ...


Why? Its not like half the fighters that get title shots deserve them anyway, at least Edgar dose.

You can't argue there is someone else that should be ranked higher or that would be more competitive.


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

It's a double standard. The online MMA world was complaining when Brock got a title shot against Couture (which of course on paper was undeserving). When in reality there weren't exactly a plethora of heavily talented HW's lined up to fight Couture. People still complained anyway.

My betting site has Edgar +180 and Aldo -220 which was EXACTLY what I thought they'd be. Not betting here, wouldn't have confidence either way.


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## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

slapshot said:


> Why? Its not like half the fighters that get title shots deserve them anyway, at least Edgar dose.
> 
> You can't argue there is someone else that should be ranked higher or that would be more competitive.


Please don't get me wrong; I mean, I'll still pay for and watch the card, and I realize that there are times when it looks like options are limited in terms of challengers.

It's simply my opinion that success in a given weight class shouldn't guarantee an immediate shot at the title of a different weight class. 

IMO, every time that happens, MMA's legitimacy is eroded just the tiniest bit, tightening the downward spiral that ends with MMA at the pro level looking less like a fight sport and more like an entertainment event.

.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Hooligan222 said:


> 1) They're no teammates, Gray just went there to train to reinvent himself after those Frankie fights.
> 
> *Training with each other and the same team makes you teammates. Are you unclear on the meaning?*
> 
> ...


Mendes didn't try the same tactic. He was shooting for tds without set up, getting stuffed, and forced into the standing clinch. Florian wanted to tire Aldo out in the clinch, trip him, and work him over on the ground. Not even close to the same gameplan.


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## Hooligan222 (Jun 26, 2011)

I never said you need only strength to be a successful fighter, so I don't see why you brought that up.

But ok, I guess we will see who is right after the fight.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Because you implied that that was his weakness when it came to wrestling. And I never said that Frankie would win. I don't know in this fight. I was simply countering the baseless claims you were making.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

H33LHooK said:


> Please don't get me wrong; I mean, I'll still pay for and watch the card, and I realize that there are times when it looks like options are limited in terms of challengers.
> 
> It's simply my opinion that success in a given weight class shouldn't guarantee an immediate shot at the title of a different weight class.
> 
> ...


I get what your saying, you aren't the only member with that opinion either. Sometimes it is a double standard though. People that feel that way shouldn't take issue with Jones then for instance.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

H33LHooK said:


> As for the original discussion: I'm just not a fan of guys getting title shots with zero fights in a said division, regardless of their resumes.
> 
> Will I still pay to watch it? Of course.
> 
> ...


I agree. It's a short notice fight though and it's only natural the UFC wants to put a guy in front of Aldo that has some credibility right now. Not sure why they didn't ask KZ though.


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