# ***OFFICIAL*** Ronda Rousey vs. Sara McMann Thread



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

*Women's Bantamweight bout: 135 pounds*
*Main event - Five round fight for the UFC Women's Bantamweight Title*















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## MK. (Dec 16, 2012)

McMann will probably give her some real trouble, but i can't see past Ronda in this fight. Atm she's simply to good for women MMA.

Hope im wrong and her douchy ass gets ktfo.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

This could be the first competitive fight for Ronda. Kinda hoping for an epic battle here.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Voted Rousey as she'll probably win, but put a modest 1 million vBookie bet on McMann though as I think she's Rousey's toughest test to date, and if anyone can pull the upset off...it's McMann.


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

I think this is Sara's fight to win. Her wrestling should be good enough to win rounds, just as long as she can avoid being submitted she can very likely end up with the UD here. I don't buy into the hype that Rhonda's stand up is so incredible these days... the majority of this fight will be on the mat.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Ronda walks out of UFC 170 with another new arm. McMann will have nothing for her.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> This could be the first competitive fight for Ronda. Kinda hoping for an epic battle here.


She finished both Tate (first fight) and Carmouche in just one round, but i think both fights were competitive.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I think McMann can take this if she comes in with the right gameplan.

We'll see though.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I'm actually pretty excited for this one. Ronda's really grown on me as a fighter.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Excited for this fight. Really curious to see what's better, Olympic level Judo or Olympic level wrestling


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Got to bet on Ronda. She's not the great striker that some would have us believe but she will trade with anyone, she likes brawling to create a clinch.

Problem for McMann is that her strengths are on the mat too, and she will want to beat Ronda there. I don't think she can, and the earlier in the fight she takes Ronda down, the worse it'll be for her.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Olympic wrestling > Olympic judo. 

McMann by stoppage round 2. I'm surprised people are treating McMann as "just another victim of the armbar" and not seeing what exactly her credentials are. I sure wouldn't be shocked if Ronda did armbar her, but it will be far more difficult than doing it to Tate or Carmouche. I just can't wait for the day we all get to see Ronda leave the octagon with her shitty attitude, and penis tucked between her legs.


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## Mike28 (Aug 11, 2010)

Normally I would agree with Olympic Wrestling > Olympic Judo however I think Rousey has the much better grappling once the fight gets to the ground and her stand up is slightly above McManns. I do believe McMann will be able to take her down but then I think Rousey will be able to counter and get the submission victory.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

McMann with the win after Vince McMahon interferes. After the bout, Vince reveals that Sara McMann is actually Sara McMahon, and that this was all an orchestrated plot to cost Rousey - UFC's "biggest star" ever - her title, thereby costing UFC hundreds of millions of dollars. In the aftermath, the UFC succumbs to WWE in ratings and PPV buys and eventually folds.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

I find Sara rather delicious.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Rygu said:


> Olympic wrestling > Olympic judo.


For Mens, yes, for Womens, no. Womens wrestling is relatively new and not nearly as competitive on an international level as Judo is. So while there is no doubt behind McManns wrestling ability, the level of competition she faced is not the same as Rousey. I would, and am, picking a bronze judo winner over a silver wrestling winner.

If this was Mens then it would be the complete opposite as both internally in the US and nationally wrestling competition level is insane.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> I find Sara rather delicious.


She's cute


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

'dem arms.

This is going to be a great ******* fight. Sara's the biggest test to Ronda's belt. That wrestling is seriously good, but she's never faced a savage like Rousey. Ronda is in such good shape coming in off a fight just a few weeks ago too, and that could be a huge factor in this fight. It's been 10 months since McMann fought, so she's not going to have the cage exposure that Ronda has. I'd love to see Ronda take the win, but this is going to be a great fight. I can't wait!

Also, it's not as simple as Wrestling vs Judo. The BJJ is the key to this fight. They're both capable of taking eachother down, but will McMann be able to handle Ronda's jiu jitsu. She's never been in a guard as dangerous as Ronda's, and the key to the fight for McMann will be neutralising that. I don't think she's going to be able to though.


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## fightfan76 (Sep 29, 2011)

BrianRClover said:


> I think this is Sara's fight to win. Her wrestling should be good enough to win rounds, just *as long as she can avoid being submitted* she can very likely end up with the UD here. I don't buy into the hype that Rhonda's stand up is so incredible these days... the majority of this fight will be on the mat.


I dont believe she can; her strength is to take the fight into Rousey's world, the longer the fight is on the ground the higher the probability of McMann being subbed, regardless of who is on top. Also, I believe the striking is even at best (I slightly favor Rousey), and Rousey's high level judo will be a more than capable counter to McMann's high level wrestling.....


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

The closer we get, the more I wonder if McMann will be quick enough to take Ronda down, without Ronda having time to think of a counter throw herself. Then Rousey's brute strength could be the key factor.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

CupCake said:


> The closer we get, the more I wonder if McMann will be quick enough to take Ronda down, without Ronda having time to think of a counter throw herself. Then Rousey's brute strength could be the key factor.


It will be interesting to see if Rousey can reverse the takedowns. Even Meisha managed to get a couple, for all the good it did her. But what was impressive was how many times Rousey just dumped her down instead. 

I also can't wait to see the clinch game between these two because they have different goals. McMann will want to get Rousey high so she can secure a grip around her waist and pull out her legs while Rousey will want to get McMann to lean one way so she can toss her the other. I'm honest when I say that I could see there being some fighting on the cage for a while until one of them proves they will always win the clinch.

In the end I see this fight on the ground, and while McMann has powered out of subs before Rousey have proven that just doesn't work with her.


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## CarlosCondit (Jul 16, 2011)

McMann will be a very very tough challenge! Ronda seemed confident in the preview clip, but this will be her toughest contest yet and there is surely a big chance of her losing the belt. This will be the fight of the evening for sure!


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

cdtcpl said:


> For Mens, yes, for Womens, no. Womens wrestling is relatively new and not nearly as competitive on an international level as Judo is. So while there is no doubt behind McManns wrestling ability, the level of competition she faced is not the same as Rousey. I would, and am, picking a bronze judo winner over a silver wrestling winner.
> 
> If this was Mens then it would be the complete opposite as both internally in the US and nationally wrestling competition level is insane.


Good post that sums it up well.

Rousey should win this, but McMann could make it interesting.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Well shows how much I follow the woman's division. Had no idea her credentials and the fact she's undefeated. Sadly I don't think I've watched any of her fights yet. I'll be watching intently Saturday to see if she can put Ronda to the test. Traditionally wrestlers (especially Olympic caliber) nullify other grapplers so I think it's going to be very interesting. 

"Sara McMann (born September 24, 1980) is an American mixed martial artist and former Olympic wrestler. She is the first American woman in history to receive a silver medal in Olympic wrestling, which she won at the 2004 Summer Olympics in Athens, Greece. She wrestled in the Women's Freestyle 63 kg or 138.75 lb weight class. McMann was a Silver Medalist in 2003 World Championships and Bronze Medalist in 2005 & 2007 World Championships. She started wrestling at the age of 14 in Marion, North Carolina at McDowell High School."

EDIT: I really wonder if Ronda is still going to charge in for the takedown and go for the armbar considering McMann's wrestling credentials. Maybe she'll duke it out. I have to say the woman's division has peaked my interest even from day one, but even more so now. It reminds me of the nascent of the sport where most fighters are still fairly one dimensional. I have not really seen any game planning yet. Flip side they really GO AT IT HARD!


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## Swp (Jan 2, 2010)

still Rousey will win by submission !!![/B]


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Okay i don't want to sound so lame and disrespectful but tell me this doesn't look like a dude:


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## Swp (Jan 2, 2010)

yea she looks a lil like a dude , but not that much , if she wasnt been muscular she would look more ike a chick than ronda...


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Not a great picture of her tbh, i think she is normally quite pretty.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

If this fight goes to the ground Ronda should have the advantage, Ronda is not exactly the type of fighter that will let you sit in her guard. Im just not convinced Mcmann can stop Judo with wrestling especially in a mma setting. 

Its really not that hard to beat Ronda just stay out of the clinch. Wrestlers are not clinch shy and I think when this fight is standing Ronda will be able to hit her throws. 

Im not even sure McMann's striking is better than Ronda's, I guess we'll find out.


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## jaycalgary (Jun 19, 2008)

Pretty? Are you on drugs? She is a poster child for roids.


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## jaycalgary (Jun 19, 2008)

The only thing interesting about Rousey fighting is she is a C**t that most people want to see lose. I throw up a little in my mouth when I hear Rogan talk bout how popular the woman fighters are now. He is just a shill hack anyway.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

slapshot said:


> If this fight goes to the ground Ronda should have the advantage, Ronda is not exactly the type of fighter that will let you sit in her guard. Im just not convinced Mcmann can stop Judo with wrestling especially in a mma setting.
> 
> Its really not that hard to beat Ronda just stay out of the clinch. Wrestlers are not clinch shy and I think when this fight is standing Ronda will be able to hit her throws.
> 
> Im not even sure McMann's striking is better than Ronda's, I guess we'll find out.


Actually McMann has fought a couple of Judo fighters but they couldn't do anything to her. Then again they weren't at the level of Ronda. She also has found herself in quite a few submissions, but again not at the level of Ronda. The problem with McMann at this point is she is like when the UFC first started and you had guys like Coleman who knew enough about subs to power out of them. Well Ronda is just after that level. She would get destroyed by any of the mens 135'ers not just because she is a woman but because they are WAY more well rounded than she is. At this time Ronda is way more well rounded and what she is versed in she is extremely well versed.

Long story short, in round 1 I expect McMann to probably get a TD and even get out of a sub by powering out. But she can't power out forever and we found out against Tate that Ronda can throw them forever.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

cdtcpl said:


> Actually McMann has fought a couple of Judo fighters but they couldn't do anything to her. Then again they weren't at the level of Ronda. She also has found herself in quite a few submissions, but again not at the level of Ronda. The problem with McMann at this point is she is like when the UFC first started and you had guys like Coleman who knew enough about subs to power out of them. Well Ronda is just after that level. She would get destroyed by any of the mens 135'ers not just because she is a woman but because they are WAY more well rounded than she is. At this time Ronda is way more well rounded and what she is versed in she is extremely well versed.
> 
> Long story short, in round 1 I expect McMann to probably get a TD and even get out of a sub by powering out. But she can't power out forever and we found out against Tate that Ronda can throw them forever.


The Problem with McMann is that her best hope at beating Ronda is striking and her striking might not be up to the challenge. 

Ive seen most of her fights, she's not going to be out preformed athletically or at least IMO thats not going to be a factor. I think she's going to get waffle stomped with a superior skill-set, Ronda has more ways to win and she's actively seeking to stop the fight at all times. 

Thats not to say its impossible for McMann to win, Ronda has made mistakes in past fights but nobody has been able to capitalize on them so maybe McMann can but I doubt it.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

I thought McMann got a little reckless against Gaff and I could see Rousey taking advantage of that if McMann approaches this fight the same way. I'm assuming she will be more careful grappling here, but it's still hard to look passed a Rousey win. McMann definitely has the tools to make it interesting though.


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## XxDEATHSHEADxX (Jan 3, 2011)

Ronda via armbar in 1st round.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Meisha took Rhonda down but Rhonda has a crazy guard but what makes this interesting is McMann should be able to defend Rhonda's bitch tosses. that said not sure Sara can escape if she ends up in a bad spot which she is likely to do at some point. Kinda expecting McMann to win until she loses


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

So far the favorites have held up. I realized watching UFC is like a drug. 

Is that Steve Austin...haha!


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Stone Cold rocking out!


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## jaycalgary (Jun 19, 2008)

Rogan is a hack.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Can we please wait until the PPV numbers come out before we keep up this "she's the biggest star in MMA" schtick?


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## jaycalgary (Jun 19, 2008)

Ready for a manufactured fluke to keep the charade going?


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

McMann is thick compared to Rousey. That is some solid muscle she is rocking.


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## HorsepoweR (Jun 1, 2007)

I got Rousey winning but I hope hope hope she loses, would be grand.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Oh shit son! The only reason she didn't finish via armbar was because she took her out.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Why was the fight stopped exactly?


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## Andrus (Oct 18, 2011)

Who saw that coming.


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## boatoar (May 14, 2010)

**** off. too quick. blah. they went after it. too quick. **** off in title fights give it another minute. jeez too bad tj wasnt in a title fight. he'd have been saved 350 unnecessary shots. 

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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Anti-climactic. Bad stoppage. 

These two will fight again. We got totally robbed of what might have been a good fight.


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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

God awful stoppage, wow


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

bah ha ha ha

what a joke

hope people who actually paid for this got their money's worth - i feel gipped & i streamed it lol


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

That was way too early. McMann covered up but recovered like 2 seconds later.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

That's two ******* main events in a row Herb has ruined. **** him. He's ruining events and he needs to go. He's clearly lost it. Ridiculous.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

After re-watching, that was an utterly garbage stoppage. Damn right the fans should be booing.


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## HellRazor (Sep 24, 2006)

That was a 'girl stop'. If those were guys, McMann would have been given a chance to recover. It was Herb Dean, so I give him the benefit of the doubt, but that was kinda quick.

McMann didn't bitch about the stoppage, which showed class.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

I guess even referee's decline over the years, right Herb Dean?


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## Ming Fu (May 10, 2010)

Herb did a terrible job tonight. I think the earlier fight where he let it go too long caused him to stop this fight so early. I mean come one Herb, its a freaking championship fight! You gotta let the kind of stuff go on for a little extra in title fights.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

I dont think that was Herbs fault. She dropped and didnt defend herself. It was pretty surprising that she was able to get up right away after the initial reaction she put out.


I was surprised at Rouseys clinch... that saved her in this fight. Sara was definitely boxing her up though.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

What is up with Herb lately? Twice tonight, both an early and late stoppage.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I really appreciate the honesty that McMann has in talking with Rogan. No excuses, no BS, and I do hope to see this rematch soon.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

AlphaDawg said:


> That's two ******* main event in a row Herb has ruined. **** him. He's ruining events and he needs to go. He's clearly lost it.


Meh, he's just gone back to the way he was in the early seasons of TUF. Back in those old days he was stopping fights early all over the place, in fact I remember some quality threads about it.

See if you can find the thread on Tito vs. Ken Shamrock II, with none other than Herb Dean as the ref. That one was a ******* doozy.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

McMann is pure class. No doubt she'll meet Rousey again. Probably after one more win.


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## jaycalgary (Jun 19, 2008)

I just think it is fixed nonsense.


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

Dana wins! One of his cash cows can be hyped over and over again and hyperbole Joe can scream about Ronda's "world class" something rather.

Disappointing.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

There better be an immediate rematch. Not like there's anyone else in the division anyways. McMann and Ronda is all they have.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Maybe a tad early, but MacMann was moving even less than Faber. I haven't seen no thumb.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I agree that was a girl's stoppage, but you can't blame Herb cuz Sara dropped hard and was getting hit repeatedly. But I do think Sara given her Olympic caliber credentials (mindset) would have been able to get back. 

Impressive to see new wrinkles in her game. Her defense is her offense.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

M.C said:


> What is up with Herb lately? Twice tonight, both an early and late stoppage.


2nd hand smoke from Rogan's hash pipe?


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

That was ridiculous. 
2014 has not been kind to the UFC.


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## jaycalgary (Jun 19, 2008)

Why does Rogan have to drone on and on about how exciting the womens division is. What a hack!


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I almost hope they bring in Cyborg so that I don't have to listen to Joe Rogan polish Ronda's knob any longer.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Joe trying his damndest to justify that horrendous stoppage.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

it was a bad stoppage but i think most refs would have pulled the trigger. Mcmann dropped really hard and covered up her liver. It was more of who would have had good enough reflexes to stop themselves in the middle of jumping to stop the fight. 


Im surprised people are talking crap about this event??? I know the stoppage sucked but this event was alot of fun. Last time people were complaining about all the decisions and now people are complaining cause of fights ending too quick??


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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

WTF Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that Ronda seems to be sponsored by the UFC or something? She wears all UFC attire and they promote the damn headphones she is wearing it's like she is a UFC drone. Is that not favoritism and unfair to other fighters? Or am I overreacting?

Also I agree stoppage was early. Gotta let title fights go a little longer and give people a chance to recover.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

towwffc said:


> WTF Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that Ronda seems to be sponsored by the UFC or something? She wears all UFC attire and they promote the damn headphones she is wearing it's like she is a UFC drone. Is that not favoritism and unfair to other fighters? Or am I overreacting?
> 
> Also I agree stoppage was early. Gotta let title fights go a little longer and give people a chance to recover.


The have done that with several fighters. Jon Jones was the first one to be sponsored by them.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I think the event was fine. But it's a title fight. I don't know that McMann would have recovered fully. For all I know, Ronda would have followed up with a second body shot and knocked McMann right back down. But Herb jumped in and ended the fight within the first 10 seconds. He never even gave Sara a chance to recover. These aren't two scrubs fighting outside of the local bar. You give world class athletes more than 10 seconds to get their wits about them. Herb robbed McMann, and he absolutely robbed the fans of what was shaping up to be a fun fight.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Canadian Psycho said:


> I think the event was fine. But it's a title fight. I don't know that McMann would have recovered fully. For all I know, Ronda would have followed up with a second body shot and knocked McMann right back down. But Herb jumped in and ended the fight within the first 10 seconds. He never even gave Sara a chance to recover.


Imagine is Rousey would have had the presence of mind to start throwing more knees to her liver while she was down, everyone would be screaming that Herb should have stopped it sooner.


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

jaycalgary said:


> Why does Rogan have to drone on and on about how exciting the womens division is. What a hack!


honestly the most exciting fights i have seen for a while have been in the womans division, i actually think he is just being truthful


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

I'm sure Dana White was pleased with the brutally early stoppage. I'm sure the Fertittas were also happy. I wonder if Herb will suddenly own a Ferrari or property in Belize.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

cdtcpl said:


> Imagine is Rousey would have had the presence of mind to start throwing more knees to her liver while she was down, everyone would be screaming that Herb should have stopped it sooner.


No one is saying that they wanted to see McMann get her head pounded in. But there's a difference between watching a fighter get bludgeoned and stopping the fight mere seconds after a fighter has been hurt. Fighters can recover quickly, as Sara quite obviously was. I'm sure it's difficult to be a referee, but this is Herb's job. He gets paid to have a keen eye, and tonight, he dropped the ball.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

towwffc said:


> WTF Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that Ronda seems to be sponsored by the UFC or something? She wears all UFC attire and they promote the damn headphones she is wearing it's like she is a UFC drone. Is that not favoritism and unfair to other fighters? Or am I overreacting?
> 
> Also I agree stoppage was early. Gotta let title fights go a little longer and give people a chance to recover.


Other fighters have been sponsored by UFC too.

Dana White actually stated he does not like the UFC sponsoring fighters and was against it and hopes it goes away. 



> Dana White - "I was never crazy about sponsoring [Jon Jones] in the first place."


But that was when the UFC was sponsoring Jon Jones. Now that they are sponsoring Ronda he is probably all over it.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> it was a bad stoppage but i think most refs would have pulled the trigger. Mcmann dropped really hard and covered up her liver. It was more of who would have had good enough reflexes to stop themselves in the middle of jumping to stop the fight.
> 
> 
> Im surprised people are talking crap about this event??? I know the stoppage sucked but this event was alot of fun. Last time people were complaining about all the decisions and now people are complaining cause of fights ending too quick??


The Pyle fight was stopped too late, Maia gassed and looked 1/3rd his normal self after the first round which took all suspense out of the fight, Cromier fought a guy who doesn't deserve to be in the UFC and only got there because Dana wanted to play WWE for a little while, and the main event was stopped early. 

The event wasn't bad, but it was full of stupid things and something or the other took away some of the fun from every single fight.


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## GDPofDRB (Apr 18, 2013)

Not an easy call for hd there, it was quick but she also flopped pretty dramatically and was not covering up when the heat followed her down. Oh well. It was a perfect knee by rousey, that shouldn't be overlooked, bas is smiling somewhere. 

I thought this event lived up to realistic hype, it was poor on paper this morning and never got beyond being poor cumulatively. This ppv was no where near worth the price. Glad I didn't pay.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Canadian Psycho said:


> No one is saying that they wanted to see McMann get her head pounded in. But there's a difference between watching a fighter get bludgeoned and stopping the fight mere seconds after a fighter has been hurt. Fighters can recover quickly, as Sara quite obviously was. I'm sure it's difficult to be a referee, but this is Herb's job. He gets paid to have a keen eye, and tonight, he dropped the ball.


I disagree, but ultimately this will always be a matter of opinion. For me the way McMann dropped and left herself completely undefended deserved the stoppage. We have seen other fighters get hit with these shots and they tend to still be defensive, or at least stay standing, so there is a chance they can defend themselves against their opponent. McMann dropped down with one hand covering her liver completely defenseless. I would say that she was not intelligently defending herself after she took a couple shots from Ronda and still didn't do anything.

Do I think McMann could have possibly recovered? Sure, when she got up she looked coherent. But the ref isn't supposed to hope they recover, he makes the call on what he sees at that time. I wouldn't have argued that the fight should have been stopped, but I can see why the fight was stopped.


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## Parky-RFC (Jul 6, 2010)

Herb Dean is an embarrassment. He basically let TJ Waldburger get murdered in an unmeaningful fight and then stops a TITLE fight after one solid shot.

Don't get me wrong it's highly unlikely that it changed the outcome of the fight but ffs give the girl a chance.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

M.C said:


> The Pyle fight was stopped too late, Maia gassed and looked 1/3rd his normal self after the first round which took all suspense out of the fight, Cromier fought a guy who doesn't deserve to be in the UFC and only got there because Dana wanted to play WWE for a little while, and the main event was stopped early.
> 
> The event wasn't bad, but it was full of stupid things and something or the other took away some of the fun from every single fight.


A fight being stopped too late doesnt exactly ruin the event... its just something crappy that happens. It would hardly make me feel jipped for buying an event or something.

id have to really look back at Maias fights but im fairly certain the guy has never had that good of cardio. I personally thought that was normal Maia especially against someone who puts a pace on like Rory. The fight went EXACTLY how i expected it to go. I even put a prediction about it on the FFL thread and i picked Rory by unanimous decision. (Thanks for the extra points Rory)

Yeah the Cummins thing was weak but alot of people were saying this was going to be another boring decision win for Cormier when instead we got a nice TKO and a shit talker got his mouth shut.

The main event was stopped early but that fight was fun too. 

Stephen had an awesome performance.


I think the event was heck of alot better then i expected it to be. People were trashing the event left and right and i personally expected it to be a pretty weak event too but instead i got to see some nice action and finishes. No complaints here. Sure i would have liked to see the main event going on longer but other then that im okay with the way things worked out.


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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

cdtcpl said:


> The have done that with several fighters. Jon Jones was the first one to be sponsored by them.


Ahh thanks for the info, I do remember Jones wearing UFC attire in the past now that you mention it.

Also maybe it's just me, but I think most of the women's fights are sloppy as hell. Wasn't super impressed with Ronda's bumrush hurling punches rockem sockem. It worked for her even though she ate some good shots. But the skill level of the top male fighters compared to the top females is night and day. I liked the Davis VS Eye fight better, even though they would likely both lose to Ronda lol.

However I do know that Ronda's ground game is excellent and she usually controls the clinch game like she did tonight. Maybe I'm being too harsh, sure it was exciting. But not 1 male champion fights "guns ablazing" to the extent Ronda and some of the girls do. She could have easily been ko'd the way she ran at Mcmann so wrecklessly.

Done with my rant. lol


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

towwffc said:


> Ahh thanks for the info, I do remember Jones wearing UFC attire in the past now that you mention it.
> 
> Also maybe it's just me, *but I think most of the women's fights are sloppy as hell. Wasn't super impressed with Ronda's bumrush hurling punches rockem sockem.* It worked for her even though she ate some good shots. But the skill level of the top male fighters compared to the top females is night and day. I liked the Davis VS Eye fight better, even though they would likely both lose to Ronda lol.
> 
> ...


I thought the exact same thing lol. She was trying to be technical but as soon as she got hit she lost all compuser and just started swinging like an armature. I think at one point she threw a knee or something when Sara was a couple feet away from her already lmao. 

Rousey did show a nice clinch though. That surprised me.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I'm surprises she immediately went for the clinch against such a decorated wrestler. But after watching her game plan I suppose it made sense. I love seeing body shot TKOs. It's so under rated. 

Ronda is very similar to Fedor with those wild punches. She loves the clinch game and excels in those wild scrambles. 

Pretty impressive stuff.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

All I'm saying is if that was the other way around, Rogan would have been losing his mind how bad it was.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> A fight being stopped too late doesnt exactly ruin the event... its just something crappy that happens. It would hardly make me feel jipped for buying an event or something.
> 
> id have to really look bad at Maias fights but im fairly certain the guy has never had that good of cardio. I personally thought that was normal Maia especially against someone who puts a pace on like Rory. The fight went EXACTLY how i expected it to go. I even put a prediction about it on the FFL thread and i picked Rory by unanimous decision. (Thanks for the extra points Rory)
> 
> ...


I never said the event was ruined, I just said that every fight something lame happened that took some of the fun away from each fight. At the end of each fight I had something put a sour taste in my mouth, from the late stoppage to the early one, and an extremely pointless Cormier fight. 

A "bad" event? I don't think so. Extremely average or underwhelming? I'd say so.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Life B Ez said:


> All I'm saying is if that was the other way around, Rogan would have been losing his mind how bad it was.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I didnt think about that but that is very true.


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

I would give FOTN to Maia vs Rory, POTN to Pyle and Thompson.

Highly likely that Dana gives POTN to Rousey though.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Rogan is a fanboy just like the rest of us. It's cool when he agrees with or thinks like you and infuriating when he doesn't. I guess that's the cross we bear for having an actual FAN of the sport also be its biggest commentator. 

Joe is a fan, for better or worse. Goldberg is the hack.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

OHKO said:


> I would give FOTN to Maia vs Rory, POTN to Pyle and Thompson.
> 
> Highly likely that Dana gives POTN to Rousey though.


Can you get POTN to fighters from different fights? If so I thought Wonderboy was amazing tonight.

edit - I read your post wrong, scratch this post.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

M.C said:


> Can you get POTN to fighters from different fights? If so I thought Wonderboy was amazing tonight.
> 
> edit - I read your post wrong, scratch this post.


Yes you can. And Thompson is wonderboy. Stephen Thompson.

And that is who id give Performance of the night to also. I made a thread about Stephen because i felt he was a bit forgotten and i was surprised to see that someone was picking Whittaker to beat Stephen bad. I expected Stephen to win and even said he keeps it on the feet and lights Whittaker up but i did not expected a first round finish. 

I earned some awesome FFL points today.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Your FFL did pretty well tonight, sideways. Good job!

I admit, I was on the fence about Whittaker vs. Thompson and thought Whittaker would try to once again expose Thompson's weak ground game to earn a decision. Apparently, that wasn't in the cards and he got demolished. Props to Thompson, his standup is extremely impressive. I just hope he continues to work hard on his flaws because I'd hate to see his obvious skills go to waste due to him not balancing out his entire game.

Glad to see Rousey pick up the win by something other than an arm bar.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

M.C said:


> I never said the event was ruined, I just said that every fight something lame happened that took some of the fun away from each fight. At the end of each fight I had something put a sour taste in my mouth, from the late stoppage to the early one, and an extremely pointless Cormier fight.
> 
> A "bad" event? I don't think so. Extremely average or underwhelming? I'd say so.


I didnt say YOU said the event was ruined. I was talking in a more broad matter like the original post you quoted about how alot of people disliked the event and felt it was ruined.


Personally i could NEVER get a sour taste in my mouth after a fight if i already knew exactly what i was getting before hand. I maybe had a slight sour taste after Rousey/Sara due to the early stoppage and wanting to see the fight continue on longer since it was looking like a good one. But other then that the event went how i expected it to go except better with more finishes. I knew going in that the Cormier/Cummins fight was a gimmie fight just so DC can fight because he really wanted to. So i wasnt expecting something else thus i wasnt left with a sour taste. 
If i went in thinking Cormier/Cummins was a real challenge or whatever then yea maybe id have a sour taste... but the fight was exactly what i expected it to be except Cormier got a nice finish instead of a outclassing unanimous decision. 



> A "bad" event? I don't think so. Extremely average or underwhelming? I'd say so.


Yea i can see why someone would think that. No arguments here.

I expected the event to be boring and underwhelming (The event felt like a fight night to me). Instead i found the fights to have been fun and better then what i expected them to be. Underwhelming sure but still fun.


For me put it this way

I wasnt willing to pay for this event but if i was i still would have went in not expecting that fun of an event and i would have been pleasantly surprised not disappointed. Like i said i think its all in how you look at it and what expectations you have going into it.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Oh, Jesus Christ, out of all the possible outcomes... Ronda via armbar, McMann via knockout, Ronda via knockout, McMann via some sort of miracle submission and a five round war... why did it have to end this way? 

Who reffed this fight?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Oh, Jesus Christ, out of all the possible outcomes... Ronda via armbar, McMann via knockout, Ronda via knockout, McMann via some sort of miracle submission and a five round war... why did it have to end this way?
> 
> Who reffed this fight?


Herb the mean Dean


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

OHKO said:


> Highly likely that Dana gives POTN to Rousey though.



Well, he did. 

Must suck to fight your heart out on the prelims, then watch this dufus give 50k for "Performance OTN" to someone who spent 1 minute in the clinch and threw a knee.

These "OTN's" should be voted by the fans on their website after events, but no that would make to much sense and take away from the big mans ego


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Vale_Tudo said:


> Well, he did.
> 
> Must suck to fight your heart out on the prelims, then watch this dufus give 50k for "Performance OTN" to someone who spent 1 minute in the clinch and threw a knee.
> 
> These "OTN's" should be voted by the fans on their website after events, but no that would make to much sense and take away from the big mans ego


They let that happen once and it was a disaster. The crowd just voted by who their favorite fighter was instead of voting for who actually deserved it. And of-course they gave it to their fan favorite GSP. Instead of the fight that deserved it. Here is an article about it.



> *For the first time since the UFC has been handing out post-fight performance based fighter bonuses, the Las Vegas-based mixed martial arts promotion let the fans decide who would receive the “Fight of the Night” honors and $100,000 bonus money for UFC 124… and that was that last time the fans will get to make that choice.*
> 
> The fans voted for the one-sided main event between welterweight titleholder Georges St-Pierre and challenger Josh Koscheck, and UFC president Dana White was baffled by the decision.
> 
> ...


In theory it would be great but as spiderman would say "with great power comes great responsibility" and fans cant seem to be responsible.

But Dana is obviously guilty of it just as the fans are. Dana White is sooo enticed with that Ronda vagina that he voted with his small pee pee instead of his brain. But atleast Dana is hitting it behind closed doors so i cant blame the guy. lol


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> They let that happen once and it was a disaster. The crowd just voted by who their favorite fighter was instead of voting for who actually deserved it. And of-course they gave it to their fan favorite GSP. Instead of the fight that deserved it. Here is an article about it.


Hmph, figures. 
Well there has to be a better/more fair way to decide these OTNs.
Anything but letting that one man pick his own personal favorites.

She spent a minute in the clinch after she got punched in the face, threw some knees and It was over. 

There is just no universe besides Danas where that is concidered a better performance than any of the guys who fought on the prelims. 

But hey, Will Smith didnt want to meet the prelim guys.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Good stuff from from Ronda, she was in complete control against the cage.

Early stoppage IMO, especially when you consider the chances Herb gave TJ.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

What I see is MMAF is getting over populated of spoiled fans. It is normal to have positive and negative criticism, but lately, when you go into a thread like this, the general idea is "everything sucks", "MMA is downhill", "Dana, Rogan and Ronda are just selling rotten tomatoes", "Herb Dean sucks big time", "those guys are two cans" (Cans > Fans, btw).

Every event is unpredictable. Fighters are doing their best, with all their good and bad calls and not every fight can be that exciting for everybody.

People are still discussing the excitement of women MMA and this is clearly a matter of opinion. You don't like women fighting, you don't like lighter divisions? Move along. Don't watch and thus don't waste time commenting.

The fight was short, so what? We just saw Ronda Rousey break her own streak of submissions and go toe to toe against a strong Olympic wrestler and not only made the fight standing but got the KO with precise knees to the liver. How that wasn't exciting? 

People underestimate how painful and incapacitating blows to the liver can be. It is so destructive Sara collapsed to her knees like a bag of potatoes and did not care to protect her head. She was done. Sure after she is no longer in danger she recovered, it's not like she were unconscious. She was classy about HD, but she also knows she was in a world of trouble and doing zero to protect herself.

Sure I wanted to see more fight, but Ronda destroyed Sara.



Parky-RFC said:


> Herb Dean is an embarrassment. He basically let TJ Waldburger get murdered in an *unmeaningful fight* and then stops a TITLE fight after one solid shot.


There's no such thing as an "unmeaningful fight" when we are talking about professionals here. 
Maybe a street brawl following a traffic dispute could receive that label.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Definitely some confused folk around here, it's like Sherdog.

If you don't like the sport, don't bother watching it, let alone going on the internet to tell everyone.


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

Vale_Tudo said:


> Well, he did.
> 
> Must suck to fight your heart out on the prelims, then watch this dufus give 50k for "Performance OTN" to someone who spent 1 minute in the clinch and threw a knee.
> 
> These "OTN's" should be voted by the fans on their website after events, but no that would make to much sense and take away from the big mans ego


It is utter bullshit. As if Ronda wasn't already making enough with her 110k disclosed pay along with all that PPV points and backroom bonuses.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

The Waldburger fight was a horribly late stoppage. This stoppage might have been early but it is pretty hard to tell with liver shots just how bad it is. You really can't defend yourself after you get dropped by one either. It isn't like you are badly rocked and just slow to react; you can't lift your arms up to protect yourself and your legs are gone. That could last for a couple seconds or for a while so it is hard to say how many shots someone needs to eat to the face to stop it.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

Negative this and negative that... complain complain complain

I'm not sure I've read anything positive here in weeks.

Everyone is so critical of every little detail it seems like no one is even enjoying MMA anymore.


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## Swp (Jan 2, 2010)

*Great Stoppage !!*

well done Herb , but he ****ed up in the TJ fight

The Pyle stoppage was kinda stupid , he gave him way to much time after the first elbow from the mount was clearly over...


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Edit - Screw it.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Given a few more seconds, McMann would've recovered, but still impressive of Ronda to show she can withstand getting tagged and then adjust. She took an oppertunity to win and threw a beautiful knee.

Hope McMann gets back in the win column real soon.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Herb Dean, slowly becoming the worst ref in MMA.

Bad stoppage... again, but Ronda looked great on the feet. Would have liked to see what would have happened next as it was looking really competitive.


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## sucrets (Jul 8, 2007)

Early stoppage ruined the fight.

This ref is horrible.

The same guy the let the other dude smash the guy on the floor without stopping, no?


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## HellRazor (Sep 24, 2006)

sucrets said:


> This ref is horrible.


Herb Dean was an actual MMA fighter. He's been in there, hitting and getting hit. I didn't like the stoppage, but what more can you ask than a veteran ref who's also been a fighter?

I thought McMann had a broken rib from the way she was holding her abdomen. The WAY she dropped said 'serious injury'. I think Herb Dean had a 'protect the helpless girl' reaction, but it wasn't outrageous. As a fan, I want the fighters to be given every chance to recover. As a fighter who's been in there against people WAY better than me, I want the ref to protect, me, cause I'm (I mean me, not every fighter) too big a dumb-shit to fall down when the sledgehammer hits me in the head.


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## usernamewoman (Sep 24, 2007)

Herb is becoming a horrible ref, first that terrible disgusting call in Barao/Faber 2, then TJ and now McMann. Please bring back Mazzagatti, at least he was consistent. Sara was hurt but she could have continued, while liver shots can put some one down and out, that was not one of them. Ronda displayed some new tricks and great skills but her grappling was nullified. Sara did not lose in that fight, I lost 60 bucks when I paid for this event.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Can anybody can show me a female MMA fighter whos improving fight by fight as much as Rousey? And on top of that shes totally fearless. Man, I love the stroppy cow.

Besides that, bad stoppage for sure. Its not like Ronda was landing dangerous shots in that moment. By the time Rousey found her footing, Sara was on the way back up.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> Can anybody can show me a female MMA fighter whos improving fight by fight as much as Rousey? And on top of that shes totally fearless. Man, I love the stroppy cow.
> 
> Besides that, bad stoppage for sure. Its not like Ronda was landing dangerous shots in that moment. By the time Rousey found her footing, Sara was on the way back up.


The fact that I can't stand Ronda, it only makes it worse when she appears to be closing up all the holes I thought other fighters could exploit... Im not even sure she can be beaten on the feet now.

:thumbsdown:


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Killz said:


> Herb Dean, slowly becoming the worst ref in MMA.
> 
> Bad stoppage... again, but Ronda looked great on the feet. Would have liked to see what would have happened next as it was looking really competitive.


Yeah it was seriously early. It looked like she took a solar plexus shot and got the wind knocked out of her to me, dropped and was in some pain. But literally one second after she fell to the three point position, she took a single punch and then the fight was stopped. She was standing up as Herb got into the mix.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Isnt cyborg on her way to 135 to take her crown? 

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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

I think the way McMann dropped did it. She wasn't protecting her head in any way and maybe from the angle Herb Dean had, he judged the punch attempts Ronda was going for were landing flush. One thing is for sure, it wasn't a case of Sara not defending herself intelligently. She wasn't defending herself at all because she was totally incapacitated from the devastating body shots. We can't even try to compare it with the Faber situation, because Faber at least was covering up and she wasn't.

Early stoppage maybe, but far from a grotesque call and Sara knows how bad shape she was in.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

I guess it must have been those 3 BOMBS Ronda landed after Sara went down. :laugh:

It was all good to let Pyle reign down shot after shot on TJ, who at one point looked unconscious though. 

As long as Uncle Dana keeps his "biggest UFC star" as the champion, everything is good in UFC management world. Look for a $100,000 deposit into a Swiss bank account from Zuffa to a Herb Dean.


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## dvonfunk (Oct 31, 2007)

The stoppage was early and here's why:

YES, McMann was dropped and wasn't intelligently defending herself in the 2-3 seconds that she was recovering from the shot, BUT 1) She was already starting to get up when Herb Dean actually stepped in to separate the two. 

2) She's an olympic silver medalist wrestler and Herb Dean needs to take that level of toughness, fitness, and cardio into account there, liver shot or no liver shot. Some people can recover quicker than others from those and I believe McMann should've been given that opportunity. 

3) IT WAS A TITLE FIGHT. Both fighters need to be given the benefit of the doubt because the stakes are so much higher. Whether thats technically the right thing rulebook-wise, or completely politically correct, is irrelevant because it's the truth. Stoppages need to be definitive, as in no doubt about it to any viewer, if for no other reason than because it's the last impression left in the mind of the viewer. For that very reason, a questionable stoppage in the main event has the ability to taint the entire card in the viewers mind, and hurts the UFC as a result.

Truth be told, I think Herb knew he screwed up in the Waldburger fight, and wasn't about to make the same mistake twice in one night. Herb Dean's reputation as the best ref in MMA only continues to exist based on past performance and because Dana White perpetuates the claim. I, for one, have never bought into that claim, and his recent performances only prove that point. He's one of the best, no doubt, but he's no Big John. I'm sure that had Big John been reffing those fights, we wouldn't be talking about late/early stoppages.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

No matter how hard i try to see peoples point of view here i just cant. I dont see how Herb can be blamed here. The way Sara dropped has basically in every fight been the indicator that the fight should be stopped. I doubt there is anyone that saw Sara drop and assumed she was going to pop back up 2-3 seconds later. It was the perfect illusion and not only did Herb fall for it but i fell for it myself. I thought the fight was over when she collapsed and i was surprised when she popped back up. I cant blame Herb for pulling the trigger because if he didnt and let Sara continue taking punishment everyone would be saying "Sara dropped to her knees and hand and covering up her liver with the other hand she was completely defensless and Herb for some reason let her keep taking punishment. Herb is now endangering the fighters" but since she surprisingly popped back up after the initial "im done" reaction she gave the complete opposite is happening right now.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

I have seen countless fights where people got dropped way more brutally (and to their backs, staring at the stars, in a lot of cases, rather than to the considerably more safe three-point kneel that Sara was in) and were allowed more than a whopping 1-2 seconds of time to mount a defense before the ref jumped into to tell them they were unable to continue fighting.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

HexRei said:


> I have seen countless fights where people got dropped way more brutally (and to their backs, staring at the stars, in a lot of cases, rather than to the considerably more safe three-point kneel that Sara was in) and were allowed more than a whopping 1-2 seconds of time to mount a defense before the ref jumped into to tell them they were unable to continue fighting.


I dont see how a three point knee is safe while in excruciating pain holding her liver with 1 hand. She left the side of her head completely unguarded for some perfect brutal shots that will have leverage behind them. 

Yeah iv seen people get dropped brutally staring at the stars too and those fights get stopped if not there an then that is only because the ref is too slow to stop the next 3-4 shots that shouldnt have happened but did because the ref wasnt quick enough.

I have seen every kind of situation imaginable when it comes to stoppages. So i dont really care about what you have seen as we are talking about this situation.

That doesnt change the fact that Sara dropped like a sack of potatoes and wasnt what so ever protecting herself. Herb Dean was well within his right to stop the fight.

The only one to blame here is Sara. She tied Herbs hands when she dropped and didnt protect herself.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> I dont see how a three point knee is safe. She left the side of her head completely unguarded for some perfect brutal shots that will have leverage behind them.
> 
> Yeah iv seen people get dropped brutally staring at the stars too and those fights get stopped if not there an then that is only because the ref is too slow to stop the next 3-4 shots that shouldnt have happened but did because the ref wasnt quick enough.


It does matter because she was holding herself up with her own body. She had not gone limp and two seconds is not a fair time to give a clearly conscious opponent to mount a defense. By your logic any standing opponent who gets tagged with 2 or 3 good punches but has his hands dropped should have their fight stopped and declared a loss too. Because stance is irrelevant right?

Plus, LOL these are Ronda Rousey punches. She has looked like a pillow fister against every single opponent in the past, this will probably be her crowning glory of knockouts. That knee was clearly a liver or solar plexus hit and there's no reason not to give Sara some time to recover from that.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

HexRei said:


> It does matter because she was holding herself up with her own body. She had not gone limp and two seconds is not a fair time to give a clearly conscious opponent to mount a defense. By your logic any standing opponent who gets tagged with 2 or 3 good punches but has his hands dropped should have their fight stopped and declared a loss too. Because stance is irrelevant right?
> 
> Plus, LOL these are Ronda Rousey punches. She has looked like a pillow fister against every single opponent in the past, this will probably be her crowning glory of knockouts. That knee was clearly a liver or solar plexus hit and there's no reason not to give her some time to recover from that.


Being unconscious isnt the only reason to stop a fight. If she didnt go limp why did she drop to her knees?? She wanted to drop to her knees and hold her liver while leaving her head completely available for a pounding?? Her knees went limp. Thats what happened when you get dropped by a body shot. She doesnt need to go unconscious for a fight to be stopped.

Plus in tons of fights the fight gets stopped without the opponent going limp... How many times iv seen a fighter still trying to protect themselves only for him to be too badly hurt to do it correctly and the fight gets stopped. Thats what happened here.


She was too badly hurt to correctly protect herself. End of story.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Being unconscious isnt the only reason to stop a fight. If she didnt go limp why did she drop to her knees?? She wanted to drop to her knees and hold her liver while leaving her head completely available for a pounding??


Um, because she fell down, but was still conscious? on her knees in a three point position? and the fight was stopped less than two seconds later? LOL is women's mma some kind of special case or something? No men's fight would be considered over without a huge controversy here (which is actually why there is a decently large controversy going on over it)


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

HexRei said:


> Um, because she fell down, but was still conscious? on her knees in a three point position? and the fight was stopped less than two seconds later? LOL is women's mma some kind of special case or something? No men's fight would be considered over without a huge controversy here (which is actually why there is a decently large controversy going on over it)


Have you ever seen a person going unconscious from a body shot?? No you havent. Her body stopped responding or she wouldnt have been on her knees not protecting herself. She would have been better off moving and covering herself but she was too badly hurt.

Its you who is using womens mma as some kind of special case because Ronda doesnt punch as hard as a man because if a man put themselves in that spot the punches that would have been raining down on them from that spot would have been jaw breaking.

In your mind a fight cant be stopped from a body shot but only by knocking someone out.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

I definitely think a fighter that drops to their knees deserves more time to defend than two seconds, and they usually do get it in male MMA. In most male MMA fights they'd get twice that at least.

And yeah it's completely normal for a ref to gauge the amount of damage that appears to be being inflicted from strikes when judging a stoppage. And in fact title fights usually get special consideration where the challenger is given extra time to recover because of the important of the situation. 

I didn't feel like Ronda's little punches were the kind of intensity that warranted jumping in and calling a finish in literally two seconds.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

I'm with Hex. Those 2 or 3 off-target pillow punches while McMann was in a solid 3 point position for 1.5 seconds didn't warrant a stoppage at all. I think it was a knee-jerk reaction from Herb - if it was 2 men in there, he would have let it go longer. (like he did in an earlier fight) Nobody's perfect, though - he's a better ref than I'd ever be. lol

But whatever, it's done & I don't care much about the women's div anyway. Its development lags too far behind the men for me to get involved in it too seriously. I mean, look at the current champ - if you could make a male replica of her (same talent, skillset, etc.) for the men's division, she'd be gatekeeper at best. (probably more akin to Cody McKenzie, though) Someone wake me in five years or so. (or the next controversy - those are always fun)


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

HexRei said:


> I definitely think a fighter that drops to their knees deserves more time to defend than two seconds, and they usually do get it in male MMA. In most male MMA fights they'd get twice that at least.
> 
> And yeah it's completely normal for a ref to gauge the amount of damage that appears to be being inflicted from strikes when judging a stoppage. And in fact title fights usually get special consideration where the challenger is given extra time to recover because of the important of the situation.
> 
> I didn't feel like Ronda's little punches were the kind of intensity that warranted jumping in and calling a finish in literally two seconds.


I agree. 

A fight can be stopped by body shots the same way a fight can be stopped with strikes. When someone gets rocked/falls down from strikes, typically the ref gives it some time, waits to see if the person can defend themselves, if they stand back up or maybe roll over to their back to defend from guard, anything.

In this fight, there was 0 time. Herb gave her no time whatsoever to try and recover. She wasn't TKO'd or knocked out or unable to fight, she got hurt, dropped, and then started getting back up - the same way people get hurt, dropped, and get back up in countless other fights. If the fighter is completely conscious but falls from pain, you give that fighter some time to defend, make sure he/she is actually unable to continue. In this case, Sara was most certainly able to continue and it was an awful call.


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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

I think it was a bit of an early stoppage but I also sympathize with Herb and know it's a completely different experience watching the fight on tv versus reffing it up close and personal. Heck there's a chance he didn't even see it was a knee that dropped McMann. Maybe he just saw them scrapping and Sara crumple. Who knows?

Depending on the scenario for refs deciding a stoppage they can be "damned if they do and damned if they don't."


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

M.C said:


> A fight can be stopped by body shots the same way a fight can be stopped with strikes. When someone gets rocked/falls down from strikes, typically the ref gives it some time, waits to see if the person can defend themselves, if they stand back up or maybe roll over to their back to defend from guard, anything.


To use an example, let's go back to UFC 153 where Anderson Silva dropped Bonnar with a knee to the midsection. Bonnar faceplanted in the fetal position and Silva went in for the kill, hitting him with 8-9 more punches before the ref stopped the fight. Bonnar was given a chance to recover, protect himself, or improve his position, he didn't and it was stopped. It was a good stoppage and I don't recall anyone complaining about it.

And that's what should've happened in the fight yesterday, the stoppage was way too early.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

how about Travis Browne crumpled in a ball getting battered by Overeem


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Women fights will be stopped earlier than guy fights. That is just the way it is.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

I don't think the stoppage was bad. Watch the GIF













You can see McMann originally drops to her knee and hand. She then starts to put her head to the ground. While she does this, she's not even attempting to protect herself. That's when Dean started to step in to call it off. As He's waving Ronda off she begins to pick herself back up. I can see where he was coming from.



Great view of Ronda BTW


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

To me, that GIF made the stoppage look even worse than live haha. 

I'm getting pretty sick of this 'protecting the fighter' bullshit that seems to be the excuse for every early stoppage these days. These guys/girls know what they signed up for, it's a fight, they are going to get hurt. I agree with stopping a fight where a fighter is taking an unrelented beating but to stop a fight 'in case' they do is pathetic.

Herb Dean has literally ruined 2 main event title fights in a row in my opinion.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Killz said:


> To me, that GIF made the stoppage look even worse than live haha.
> 
> I'm getting pretty sick of this 'protecting the fighter' bullshit that seems to be the excuse for every early stoppage these days. These guys/girls know what they signed up for, it's a fight, they are going to get hurt. I agree with stopping a fight where a fighter is taking an unrelented beating but to stop a fight 'in case' they do is pathetic.
> 
> Herb Dean has literally ruined 2 main event title fights in a row in my opinion.


JUST BLEED!!!!



:laugh: I kid. You know I love you.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> JUST BLEED!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> :laugh: I kid. You know I love you.


:laugh:


:bye02:


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I don't think the stoppage was bad. Watch the GIF
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But, you can see Rondas punches are lame. Shes simply not postured correctly to be applying any kind of power to them. After two of these lame punches Herb steps in. I can understand if Ronda was piling in with hard blows, but she wasnt. Sara could have eaten 10 of those and been fine still. Herb should have recognized that Sara wasnt in any serious danger. Like I said previous, before Ronda had the time to adjust her posture to cause more pain, Sara was on her way up.

I'm pretty convinced Ronda would have won anyway. Shes so powerful and aggressive. But this was not a great way to do it.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

She turtled up and turned her back.

Clearly Ronda dropped her with a good shot and clearly the fight could have continued but I have no doubt Ronda would have won regardless.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> But, you can see Rondas punches are lame. Shes simply not postured correctly to be applying any kind of power to them. After two of these lame punches Herb steps in. I can understand if Ronda was piling in with hard blows, but she wasnt. Sara could have eaten 10 of those and been fine still. Herb should have recognized that Sara wasnt in any serious danger. Like I said previous, before Ronda had the time to adjust her posture to cause more pain, Sara was on her way up.
> 
> I'm pretty convinced Ronda would have won anyway. Shes so powerful and aggressive. But this was not a great way to do it.


I don't think many people doubt she would have won.

Ronda's punches after the drop didn't appear to be why Herb stopped it... unlike with Barao Faber.

As I said, McMann originally drops to a hand and knee. Herb was allowing it to continue. Once McMann let her hand go and head drop towards the mat, Herb immediately began to step in. He was already on his way in to stop the fight before the weak punches landed.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I don't think many people doubt she would have won.
> 
> Ronda's punches after the drop didn't appear to be why Herb stopped it... unlike with Barao Faber.
> 
> As I said, McMann originally drops to a hand and knee. Herb was allowing it to continue. Once McMann let her hand go and head drop towards the mat, Herb immediately began to step in. He was already on his way in to stop the fight before the weak punches landed.


Yea, I can see that too. Very subjective and definitely on the edge between one opinion and the other. I will accept that its impossible to compare our views with the blessing of hindsight, and the position Herb finds himself in where he has a second to decide.

Regardless, I cant help but feel Herb was influenced be the fact that they are women. Not to say I wouldn't be in his position. Its hard to undo millennia of bullshit social programming.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I actually agree with the stoppage. She went down, didn't protect herself at all, and Herb Dean stepped in.

Ronda's GnP might have been hilariously bad, but none the less McMann wasn't even able to protect her face. I say it was actually a very good stoppage.

Also, how come Ronda is getting credit for "getting tagged". She took a couple of okay at best punches, because she doesn't know how to hold her hands properly.


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