# Velasquez chances vs Brock



## Big Nasty (Aug 2, 2009)

Just want to emphasise that i am a big cain velasquez fan but im not so sure how he will do against Brock.

Brock gained alot of respect from me today with his heart and composure.

I think Dos Santos would be a better chance vs Brock as Cain is simply to small and he came in at 243 in his last fight vs big nog.

How do others think cain will fair against the champ?


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Not well imo. The size thing is something that is overemphasised, Fedor has made a career out of beating people much bigger than him, but when Brock has a 30lbs weight advantage PLUS is as quick and agile as the smaller guy then it makes it very hard.
Tonight Brock proved he has a solid chin too, so the only HW i see beating him is a shit hot BJJ black belt, like big Nog... But i'd still give big Nog about a 20% chance if they had a fight!


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## Toroian (Jan 3, 2009)

very well indeed brock showed he cant take a punch tonight and velasq has looked v good on his feet aswell as a great gas tank the major question is can brock hold him down? i dont think he can hold him down as cain will get up im rooting for anyone vs brock!


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

edlavis88 said:


> Not well imo. The size thing is something that is overemphasised, Fedor has made a career out of beating people much bigger than him, but when Brock has a 30lbs weight advantage PLUS is as quick and agile as the smaller guy then it makes it very hard.
> Tonight Brock proved he has a solid chin too, so the only HW i see beating him is a shit hot BJJ black belt, like big Nog... But i'd still give big Nog about a 20% chance if they had a fight!


The shot that put him down wasn't even clean.

I think Velasquez wins this easy if he comes in with the right game plan and is well conditioned.

Everyone talked about how superior Brock's wrestling was going to be against Carwin. We found out that Carwin was able to stop every td attempt until he gassed.

Velasquez should easily be able to stop Brock's TD, and he should have cardio to get past the second round. I think Brock is the UD in this one.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

Brock just took one of the hardest punchers in the UFC on, took heavy shots, and still won. I think Cain could be in trouble, I like him a lot, but he'll need a solid strategy going into it. Anyone got a size comparison pic?


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## Walter (Jun 22, 2009)

Big Nasty said:


> Just want to emphasise that i am a big cain velasquez fan but im not so sure how he will do against Brock.
> 
> Brock gained alot of respect from me today with his heart and composure.
> 
> ...


How do people see Brock winning this ? Taking Cain down then pounding him out like Mir ? Well placed punch like Randy ? I give Cain a good chance here, hopefully train his defensive wrestling enough to keep it standing like Randy and Carwin, then outpoint him on the feet for 5 rounds. And if Cain manages to drop Brock, he probably won't gas trying to finish him, but go back to his bread and butter, top control.

Is JDS that much bigger than Cain ? I wouldn't favor JDS vs Brock because his wrestling is untested, and probably not high level yet. I'd say 2.7 are decent odds on Cain, and 3 are great.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Cain is gonna be going none stop for 5 rounds....Not only does he have stamina he has more agility, speed and skill than Brock. All the size crap annoys me....the more skilled man will win. 

I can see Brock taking the 1st round with the 2nd being close But Cain taking over in the last 3....maybe even stops brock...he has it in him regardless of the Kongo fight.


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## kgilstrap (Dec 3, 2006)

Cain has great wrestling and great cardio to boot. I wasn't impressed with Brock's performance tonight(GSP accent), he was dominated badly that first round and had Carwin not gassed he would have finished it. Cain has the talent to beat brock on the feet and should be able to sprawl the early takedown attempts.


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## Dream-On-101 (Jun 4, 2009)

I am pretty sure that Brock would win this fight (moreso than i was against Shane). With Carwin, there was always that strong possibility that he could land one of those huge bombs and knock Brock clean out. 

That is not so much of a threat with Cain. Whilst a far superior technical boxer, and kickboxer, i have a hard time seeing him KO Brock. If Lesnar can recover from a Carwin onslaught, i dont see how Cain would fare any better. 

Cain is a tremendous wrestler, and as we saw with the Couture fight size does not always matter in wrestling. Cain may well be able to stuff a couple of Brocks TDs, but i am convinced he would get him down eventually. Once on the ground, size DOES matter, and the gulf in this match would be vast. 

We know Brock has good cardio, we know Cain has great cardio as well. This probably wouldnt become an issue unless we got past the 3rd round, which i doubt would happen. 

I give Cain a chance, albeit a slim one, of taking a decision if Brock where unable to get him down through the fight. I give Brock the far superior odds of securing a takedown at some point, and finishing Cain there. Probably 2nd round.


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## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

If Cain is to win that fight he'll need to do it the way Edgar beat Penn: outboxing him and staying away from him. If Lesnar gets the takedown, it's over.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

It could very well be a UD for Brock with Velasquez being smothered on the ground, but fighting tenaciously and not giving up. Velasquez may not be able to land too many shots before Brock shoots in on him. I don't know if anybody realizes this, but not only is his shot quick, but it's extremely powerful simply with the momentum and weight. You can't stop it forever. I'd say Overeem would have a better chance or JDS. 

Still calling for a rematch with Carwin in one to two years.


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## Walter (Jun 22, 2009)

SonofJor-El said:


> If Cain is to win that fight he'll need to do it the way Edgar beat Penn: outboxing him and staying away from him. If Lesnar gets the takedown, it's over.


I don't think it's that easy to hold a great wrestler down and GNP him out at the same time. Look at how Brock sprung up from under Carwin. Quick, agile wrestlers are hard to hold down, especially if they have the stamina to spring up when needed. Cain won't "relax" like Mir in the confort of an omgawesome bjj ability that never comes.

In no way do I see Cain the favorite, but I don't think it's that over after the takedown.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Listen people. The ONLY reason Brock could take Carwin down in the second was because he was gassed. The winning factor in that fight was conditioning. In the first round Carwin easily stuffed Brocks td's. Come round 2, it looked like shane was on the verge of passing out, clay guida could of taken him down in that state.

Cain and brock imo have possibly the best cardio in the division. Cain is a machine, he just keeps working and keeps pushing the pace. He isnt going to gas like Carwin. Add on top of this that cain is a better wrestler than Carwin, has more diverse kick boxing, is faster, more agile and has legit power, i honestly think Cain takes this fight comfortably.

Overall i was not at all impressed with Brocks performance. like i said, the winning factor here was conditioning. Had Carwin have not gassed and been fresh in round 2, he would of demolished Brock. Brock lost a 10-8 round in the 1st and then came back to beat carwin in the second because he was BADLY gassed. Cain is not going to have the same problems.

Skill overcomes size and strength.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

my moneys will be on cain, he has out-wrestled guys just as big as brock who are better wrestlers than brock. he has great leg kicks that will frustrate brock and just better striking altogether. cain by UD


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## Johnni G (Dec 2, 2009)

Brock will run him over


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

I also think that cain is going to TKO Brock. People seem to think that carwin is the only man capable of finishing brock because he has ko'd mir and gonzaga. Cain has legit power, he proved it in the Nog fight. He has the cardio and speed to finish brock off when he rocks him.


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## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

guy incognito said:


> my moneys will be on cain, *he has out-wrestled guys just as big as brock who are better wrestlers than brock*. he has great leg kicks that will frustrate brock and just better striking altogether. cain by UD


WHO?! Rothwell? Kongo? Jake O'Brien?


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SonofJor-El said:


> WHO?! Rothwell? Kongo? Jake O'Brien?


He meant in his wrestling division 1 days.


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## Walter (Jun 22, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Listen people. The ONLY reason Brock could take Carwin down in the second was because he was gassed. The winning factor in that fight was conditioning. In the first round Carwin easily stuffed Brocks td's. Come round 2, it looked like shane was on the verge of passing out, clay guida could of taken him down in that state.


Absolutely, Brock took him down only after he gassed. He even faked the takedown 2 times and saw NO reaction from Shane. Then faked the punch and took him down easlily.

But let's not forget Carwin is in the same size class as Brock, while Cain and Randy aren't. What makes Brock a threat to taking down Cain isn't just his technique, it's mostly his size. Randy proved Brock's wrestling can be neutralised even with a weight disadvantage.



Mckeever said:


> Overall i was not at all impressed with Brocks performance. like i said, the winning factor here was conditioning. Had Carwin have not gassed and been fresh in round 2, he would of demolished Brock. Brock lost a 10-8 round in the 1st and then came back to beat carwin in the second because he was BADLY gassed. Cain is not going to have the same problems.


If Carwin paced himself to last 5 rounds, he would have expended a lot less energy. He may have had to throw 1/5th the punches he did. You are comparing Brock to a Carwin that goes on like he did the 1st round for 2-5 rounds, and that's a beast that doesn't exist yet.



Mckeever said:


> Skill overcomes size and strength.


Depends on the difference in skill and the difference in size. We'll see if Cain is that much more skilled than Brock, because the size difference is there.


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## usernamewoman (Sep 24, 2007)

both of these guys are still improving their game with each fight, combined they have a total of 14 fights, makes you wonder what new techniques the will bring into the cage come fight time


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## NotDylan (Jul 13, 2009)

Everyone in the know says Cain Velasquez is the real deal, the next champion. Supposedly his work ethic is second to none and his already impressive skills are ever improving. Randy handled Brock's wrestling pretty well and I think Cain will do even better. Cain's striking, with both hands and feet, is excellent and his cardio is second to none. I think he beats Brock.


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## Walter (Jun 22, 2009)

We may get some crazy betting odds on this one, anything over 3 on Cain is a steal.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

annnnndd HERE it starts. 

First it was the, Carwin is so much better at this and that so that is why he will win. Now it is the Cain is this and that and this is how he will win.

gotta love it


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## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

Here's what's truly frightening to me about Brock. 

Randy Couture is the ALL-TIME MASTER of the stand-up clinch game working against the fence. When Randy fought Brock, 90+% of that match took place in the standup clinch against the fence (where Randy is at his best) and Brock won in Rd2.

Frank Mir is one of the best in the HW division at subbing guys on the ground. He even subbed Brock in their first fight. When Brock fought Mir the second time, 90+% of that fight was on the ground (where Mir is at his best) and Brock won in Rd2.

Shane Carwin is one of the heaviest punchers in all of MMA who loves to punish guys with his hands if the fight's standing or with GnP when the fight is on the ground. Carwin landed CLEAN and HEAVY shots square on Brock's head and GnP'd Brock for over 2 minutes. Brock won in Rd2.

While fighters generally want to exploit their opponent's weaknesses, Brock takes on his opponents where they are at their strongest and still comes out on top. That's just not right.


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

Cain will come out on top In this fight, guaranteed!

I was not impressed by Brock last night. He looked lost when he got hit, he gassed almost as bad as Carwin and he couldnt take Carwin down In the 1st round with this "amazing wrestling".. Oh and did I mention he looked really slow and sluggish.

Cain has picture perfect combinations, great chin, cardio like a WW and great wrestling.

Sure Lesnar is bigger than Cain, but Cain Is faster and If he cant get Cain down In the 1st round and Donkey Kong a victory he'll be picked apart.

Mark my words! Cain will be the next "Fedor"


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## KittenStrangler (Mar 26, 2010)

What are Velasquez's chances against Lesnar? Zero.


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## Jebber (Oct 11, 2008)

slim and none


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

I'm going to have to say that Cain is going to get run over and demolished.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

PheelGoodInc said:


> The shot that put him down wasn't even clean.
> 
> I think Velasquez wins this easy if he comes in with the right game plan and is well conditioned.
> 
> ...


That is not fair to say since we saw what one half assed TD attempt that wasn't set up. Come on we can't judge anything by that. Lesnar was 50% with his TD's.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I don't give much chance to Cain here, he got rocked by Shane, who is much more powerful than Cain and he couldn't finish him. Cain has some mad boxing skills though.


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## Kodiac26170 (Jul 30, 2009)

Toroian said:


> very well indeed brock showed he cant take a punch tonight and velasq has looked v good on his feet aswell as a great gas tank the major question is can brock hold him down? i dont think he can hold him down as cain will get up im rooting for anyone vs brock!


You think Brock CANT take a punch?

I think he proved he can take a punch better than maybe any man alive. Carwin touches people and they go to sleep, he hit Brock with every thing he had plus dropped elbows and Brock was smiling at the beginning of round 2. If that isnt taking a punch I dont know what is.

Velasquez is a great fighter but Brock will pick him up and spit in his ass.:thumb02:


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## EastonAssassin (Nov 5, 2009)

i see all the brock haters still can't seem to give the man his respect even after being proved wrong last night. what a bunch of clowns.


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## Fedorthebest (Jun 1, 2010)

*ahahahaahahaha Here we gooooo Brock Haters coming backkk*

first it was mir,then carwin now it is cain...u said always the same thing "brock will be beated on the ground"..."carwin wrestling is better than lesnar's one" etc etc u are so ridicolus ahahah IN THE GROUND NOBODY and i say NOBODY can stand a chance against lesnar...i think only a 400 pounds guy can dominate brock on the ground but the limit is 265 so sorry...brock on the ground is UMBEATEABLE...how can't u understand the reason??its so simple...his wrestling ability is top class...but is size,strenght and agility are incredibly better...so a guy as cain who is so much little can't stand a chance on the ground...4 what concern the stand up match he can but...the most powerfull striker of the world (carwin) doesn't KO brock...so the chance in this fight 4 cain are 1%...just brock haters can argue that brock can be beaten by cain,especially on the ground u are amazing ahahahahahahahahah


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## The_Sandman (Aug 16, 2009)

I am sorry, but as much as I respect Cain Velasquez...
He is not going to stand a chance against Brock Lesnar.

Brock Lesnar is the "*MAN*." 
What exactly is Cain going to try and do? Wrestle Brock? Punch Brock? I mean, seriously???:sarcastic12:

The fight I want to see is Lesnar and Dos Santos:smoke01:


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## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

Cain is awesome, but I do think the size difference is too huge. Mir is faster and more technical than Brock too, but its not like Brock is a slow talentless nobody like majority of the behemoths Fedor has beaten. Brock's wrestling skills are just as good if not better than Cain's plus there isn't that huge speed advantage to Cain either.
Im sure it'll be a great fight, but I just see Brock overpowering Cain either on ground or against the cage, if not flat out dropping him by a knee or punch too.

So yeah, it'll be great fight, but I'd rather see JDS vs. Brock.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

This is a tough one to call: Cain impressed with his kickboxing against Nogueira. From a technical standpoint, he looked outstanding. It literally looked like he was practicing on a punching bag. 

Having said that, I don't think we saw the best version of Brock Lesnar during 116. He looked very sluggish and slow out there. The REAL Brock Lesnar is quick as a cat and hyper-aggressive. 

Look for a faster, more decisive Brock Lesnar against Cain. I predict another submission finish after Brock takes Cain down.

Cain can get back up from Brock's takedowns early on, but each time he does so, it will empty his gas tank. Eventually, he won't be able to get back up and Brock's ground and pound and finally submission skills will end the battle. 

70/30 in favor of Brock TODAY.


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## KittenStrangler (Mar 26, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> The shot that put him down wasn't even clean.
> 
> I think Velasquez wins this easy if he comes in with the right game plan and is well conditioned.
> 
> ...


Every post I see of yours is attacking Brock with stupid reasoning. I've never seen such blind and ignorant hatred for a fighter before you. Enough of the butthurt comments already. It's pathetic.


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## Fedorthebest (Jun 1, 2010)

KittenStrangler said:


> Every post I see of yours is attacking Brock with stupid reasoning. I've never seen such blind and ignorant hatred for a fighter before you. Enough of the butthurt comments already. It's pathetic.


he's a troll man...a top class clown...he is in that forum just to make us laugh


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## Fedorthebest (Jun 1, 2010)

michelangelo said:


> This is a tough one to call: Cain impressed with his kickboxing against Nogueira. From a technical standpoint, he looked outstanding. It literally looked like he was practicing on a punching bag.
> 
> *Having said that, I don't think we saw the best version of Brock Lesnar during 116*. He looked very sluggish and slow out there. The REAL Brock Lesnar is quick as a cat and hyper-aggressive.
> 
> ...


U hit another point man...i think to know lesnar as i know my self,i follow him since NCAA,i watch every single fight of him and the UFC 116 Brock wasn't the best lesnar...i think his illness have been devastating and atm he's not yet at 100%,this is also due to the long inactivty on the ring,i'm sure about that...
however i'm sure he will be back at the top of the shape in the next fight


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Cain has a cjance if he can rock Lesnar. Lesnar was hurt by Carwin and that is why he was dominated that round but he came back strong and better than he did in the first. If Cain can rock Brock like Carwin did he might be able to finish since he has a pretty good gas tank. But that is the only way he will finish this fight and I think if Lesnar is smart he just pucks Cain up and slams him on his back until Cain can not take it anymore.


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

Toroian said:


> very well indeed brock showed he cant take a punch tonight and velasq has looked v good on his feet aswell as a great gas tank the major question is can brock hold him down? i dont think he can hold him down as cain will get up im rooting for anyone vs brock!


Yes that is clear.

Brock can't take a punch? Really? Who else has taken Carwin's best and then went to the 2nd rd.? Has Carwin EVER allowed someone to get up once he was down?

One of us missed something in that fight.


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## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

Not a Cain fan at all, but Velasquez is top top fighter. A new breed of heavyweight with very well rounded skills and yes, great cardio. Scary thing is he is only 27 and has a ton of testosterone and ability to display. Trouble is he is 243lbs, which wouldnt be too bad if he wasn't facing a Lesnar or Carwin. I hate to admit it but im starting to think that maybe there should be another division.

My hats off to Brock though. I figured he'd lose this one what with the illness and time off and Carwin being on a roll. He was a too arseholish towards Mir, but it seems like he is alright with everyone else. He is indeed a bad bad man. I don't see anybody beating him. I still give Carwin the best chance.


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

velasquez has a chance if he can keep it standing and use his speed. i dont think velasquez can take brock down with the size dif. but velasquez is a good hw and will push brock to get better.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Some of you see what you want to see, don't you? Yes, Shane managed to stuff Brock once or twice last night, but he did so after catching Brock with a huge shot, which no doubt sent Lesnar out of his element and into panic mode. You're taking Carwin's stuffing a half conscious Lesnar one or two times and making it sound as though it happened a dozen times whilst Brock was completely coherent, which is an absolute falsehood. Which makes it even more hypocritical, because whilst you refuse to acknowledge that Brock was rocked when going in for the initial takedowns, you go on to _defend_ Carwin for being taken down because he was gassed. You can't just pick and choose the facts here people. Was Shane ultimately taken down the second round because he was gassed? Probably. Did Lesnar fail on a couple of take down attempts because he was rocked? Quite obviously. 

I'm amazed that some people can't seem to give the man credit no matter what he does. He gassed? When in the hell did that happen? In the second round when he smiled and set up an explosive shot before ultimately locking in a submission and finishing the fight? He looked unimpressive? Yes, because being clipped by a man whom has knocked out all of his opponents in the UFC, yet hanging on, coming back to win via submission, after a year long lay off following a career threatening illness certainly isn't anything to admire or deem impressive. Give me a break guys. Were it any other fighter, you'd be chalking it up to ring rust, but because it's Brock, he's an over-rated bum whom Cain is going to expose. I know, I know. 

One year away from the Octagon. Badly ill for a good percentage of it. Returning to a huge test like Shane Carwin. Pardon me if I don't jump on Lesnar's ass for not looking like a complete fighter the first round out. And then to further use Shane's gassing to knock Lesnar's performance, when you should be knocking _Shane_ for not showing up to fight a full round, let alone five? I mean, is there no end to the ridiculous bias and obvious hatred? You won't see me putting Brock on a pedestal, but I can respect what he's done, and I'd never go to the lengths that some of you do to put him down. Logic, people, for the love of God. Give it a try.


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> The shot that put him down wasn't even clean.
> 
> I think Velasquez wins this easy if he comes in with the right game plan and is well conditioned.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the great laugh!


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

kgilstrap said:


> Cain has great wrestling and great cardio to boot. I wasn't impressed with Brock's performance tonight(GSP accent), he was dominated badly that first round and had Carwin not gassed he would have finished it. Cain has the talent to beat brock on the feet and should be able to sprawl the early takedown attempts.


If a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his butt all day.


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

*"I was not impressed by Brock last night. He looked lost when he got hit, he gassed almost as bad as Carwin and he couldnt take Carwin down In the 1st round with this "amazing wrestling".. Oh and did I mention he looked really slow and sluggish."*
Not impressed, looked lost when hit, gassed and couldn't take Carwin down in the 1st rd.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

I'm surprised Velasquez isn't getting more credit than this. He has all of the tools to beat Brock. Great cardio, kickboxing, and I think his wrestling will be enough to negate Brock's.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

That was the slowest and rustiest we will ever see Brock and he still was able to beat a peak fighter like Carwin. I expect in his next fight Lesnar will be fully back from his near death experience. No disrespect to Cain but for him to win he's going to have to the Edgar over Penn style and Brock has twice the cardio Penn has. At this point the only person who I think can outrun and beat Lesnar is *Anderson Silva* a master scrambler and puncher with great BJJ. But for Anderson he has to put on the weight which I don't think its possible for him to do.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

John8204 said:


> That was the slowest and rustiest we will ever see Brock and he still was able to beat a peak fighter like Carwin. I expect in his next fight Lesnar will be fully back from his near death experience. No disrespect to Cain but for him to win he's going to have to the Edgar over Penn style and Brock has twice the cardio Penn has. At this point the only person who I think can outrun and beat Lesnar is *Anderson Silva* a master scrambler and puncher with great BJJ. But for Anderson he has to put on the weight which I don't think its possible for him to do.


what...REALLY?

All Lesnar needs to do is bull rush Anderson against the cage, get him down and the fight will be over in seconds.


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## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

With all the notice Cain has had for his next fight, there's no reason why he shouldn't be adding muscle and going in at 255+. The only reason he wouldn't is if he think it would hurt his mobility/cardio ...

Anyway, the only Heavyweights I see possibly beating Brock in the future are Carwin and maybe Overeem if he's legit.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

MikeHawk said:


> I'm surprised Velasquez isn't getting more credit than this. He has all of the tools to beat Brock. Great cardio, kickboxing, and I think his wrestling will be enough to negate Brock's.


Easily. Everyone touted Brock's wrestling like it was going to completely dominate Carwin's wrestling.

Carwin stopped every single takedown until he gassed.

Cain can hit, stop the TD's, and has cardio. I see Lesnar having a far tougher time with him than Carwin.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

As we all know, you're only as good as your last fight in the UFC. 

Cain looked fantastic against Nogueira, and that's what fight fans remember. 

However, against Kongo, it was a different story: Cain was knocked down twice against a fighter who had little or no time to train for the fight. 

Cain is a very dangerous opponent to be sure, but given Brock's ring rust and the disparity in size, it's hard to list Cain as the favorite when they match up. 




MikeHawk said:


> I'm surprised Velasquez isn't getting more credit than this. He has all of the tools to beat Brock. Great cardio, kickboxing, and I think his wrestling will be enough to negate Brock's.


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

the only people that touted brock wrestling were people who thought that there is such a big difference between div1 and div2. we only got one round and the only td brock attempted he drove carwin into fence and let go. the fight was too short and both fighters got tired too fast to be certain of much more than the one takedown he attempted when he wasn't rocked.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> As we all know, you're only as good as your last fight in the UFC.
> 
> Cain looked fantastic against Nogueira, and that's what fight fans remember.
> 
> ...


Uhh no, I remember all of his fights pretty clearly. I don't judge a fighter from his last fight.

I thought the Kongo fight was good for Cain. He showed he has great recovery and composure when he gets rocked. Besides, Brock's striking isn't anywhere near Kongo's and Kongo isn't even that good.

What ring rust? Before this fight everyone was saying Brock was going to be the best Brock ever. Now that he's been exposed a little everyone shouts ring rust? I don't buy into it. He just got rocked by Carwin. That wasn't ring rust.

I just don't believe all the hype that Brock has amazing wrestling. Sure he was Division 1, like 10 years ago. Then he went into football and pro wrestled after that. His size is the only thing that makes his wrestling any good.


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## Fedorthebest (Jun 1, 2010)

MikeHawk said:


> Uhh no, I remember all of his fights pretty clearly. I don't judge a fighter from his last fight.
> 
> I thought the Kongo fight was good for Cain. He showed he has great recovery and composure when he gets rocked. Besides, Brock's striking isn't anywhere near Kongo's and Kongo isn't even that good.
> 
> ...


ahahahahahahahah fantastic...
one of the best bullshit i've ever read about brock...
when brock in ncaa win 106 fights loosing just 5 he fought atlhete of his same weight...also carwin was 265 like brock but on the ground he lasts 20 seconds...


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Spec0688 said:


> what...REALLY?
> 
> All Lesnar needs to do is bull rush Anderson against the cage, get him down and the fight will be over in seconds.


Bull rushing is Anderson's bread and butter, guys move in to take him down Anderson knocks them out.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

MikeHawk said:


> Uhh no, I remember all of his fights pretty clearly. I don't judge a fighter from his last fight.
> 
> I thought the Kongo fight was good for Cain. He showed he has great recovery and composure when he gets rocked. Besides, Brock's striking isn't anywhere near Kongo's and Kongo isn't even that good.
> 
> ...


Quoted for damn truth. I would rep you but I gotta spread the love.


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

MikeHawk said:


> Uhh no, I remember all of his fights pretty clearly. I don't judge a fighter from his last fight.
> 
> I thought the Kongo fight was good for Cain. He showed he has great recovery and composure when he gets rocked. Besides, Brock's striking isn't anywhere near Kongo's and Kongo isn't even that good.
> 
> ...


ring rust was yelled out before the fight lol. he was out for near a year and battled an illness that had him recovering from a whol in his stomach. if you dont see that as ring rust there is no such thing as ring rust in your book.

nobody has made it out of the first round with carwin-say what you want, that fact alone says volumes.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Thelegend said:


> ring rust was yelled out before the fight lol. he was out for near a year and battled an illness that had him recovering from a whol in his stomach. if you dont see that as ring rust there is no such thing as ring rust in your book.
> 
> nobody has made it out of the first round with carwin-say what you want, that fact alone says volumes.


Ring rust was barely mentioned. Remember the "pics of brocks REDICLOUS athleticism" thread and the "Countdown to destroying Carwin" threads. Yes I know thats what Brock called his video, but the general statements made was that he was going to walk through Carwin. Borck said he was back to 100% and better than ever. Now all of this sudden thats ring rust?

The first round should have been stopped imo. Brock shouldn't have made it out either.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Fedorthebest said:


> ahahahahahahahah fantastic...
> one of the best bullshit i've ever read about brock...
> when brock in ncaa win 106 fights loosing just 5 he fought atlhete of his same weight...also carwin was 265 like brock but on the ground he lasts 20 seconds...


Lol, bro how long ago was that? It was over a decade ago. He stopped wrestling for a long ass time when he was doing football and pro wrestling. To think he has the same skills now is pretty stupid.

Please show me a clip where Brock displays amazing wrestling skills. He never sets up his takedowns. The only thing he has going for him is transitions and top control. I'm sure a lot of people would have good top control if they weighed 280.


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## Fedorthebest (Jun 1, 2010)

MikeHawk said:


> Lol, bro how long ago was that? It was over a decade ago. He stopped wrestling for a long ass time when he was doing football and pro wrestling. To think he has the same skills now is pretty stupid.
> 
> Please show me a clip where Brock displays amazing wrestling skills. He never sets up his takedowns. The only thing he has going for him is transitions and top control. *I'm sure a lot of people would have good top control if they weighed 280*.


mmmm yeah so why nobody has never dominated brock on the ground??
and remember that transitions and top control on the ground is a wrestling skill


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Ring rust was barely mentioned. Remember the "pics of brocks REDICLOUS athleticism" thread and the "Countdown to destroying Carwin" threads. Yes I know thats what Brock called his video, but the general statements made was that he was going to walk through Carwin. Borck said he was back to 100% and better than ever. Now all of this sudden thats ring rust?
> 
> The first round should have been stopped imo. Brock shouldn't have made it out either.


in both those cases i didnt even bother to post in those threads as i thought they were just promo stuff. i had carwin winning this fight because i thought brock would have cardio issues and ring rust-which i still think he did. Carwin would have won if he paced himself more.

lest i forget the op lol (too late)
i give cain a good shot to win against brock-the guy is undefeated, you just cant overlook someone with a 0 in the loss column and quality wins over nog,rothwell, and kongo.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

He pretty much dominated Herring and Mir with wrestling. With Herring he was able to use his legs and balance to hold his body down, with Mir he was able to basically hold him down on the mat with one arm and smash his face with his other. Wrestling isn't just take-downs alla Matt Hughes or Josh Koscheck it's being able to manipulate your opponents body. The best wrestler in UFC history Randy Couture doesn't use take downs he uses Greco-Roman wrestling and the cage to win his fights.


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## Fedorthebest (Jun 1, 2010)

John8204 said:


> He pretty much dominated Herring and Mir with wrestling. With Herring he was able to use his legs and balance to hold his body down, with Mir he was able to basically hold him down on the mat with one arm and smash his face with his other. Wrestling isn't just take-downs alla Matt Hughes or Josh Koscheck it's being able to manipulate your opponents body. The best wrestler in UFC history Randy Couture doesn't use take downs he uses Greco-Roman wrestling and the cage to win his fights.


nice post,affirmed the brock's wrestling isn't good it's unbeliveable


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

John8204 said:


> He pretty much dominated Herring and Mir with wrestling. With Herring he was able to use his legs and balance to hold his body down, with Mir he was able to basically hold him down on the mat with one arm and smash his face with his other. Wrestling isn't just take-downs alla Matt Hughes or Josh Koscheck it's being able to manipulate your opponents body. The best wrestler in UFC history Randy Couture doesn't use take downs he uses Greco-Roman wrestling and the cage to win his fights.


What's your point? Neither of those guys are wrestlers. Herring isn't even top 10 for that matter. Once he fought an actual wrestler, Randy, he didn't look all that unstoppable like everyone says he is.
Then in the Carwin fight he didn't even get a takedown until Carwin was completely gassed.
Randy isn't even close to the best wrestler in UFC history. Where do you get this stuff?


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## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Ring rust was barely mentioned. Remember the "pics of brocks REDICLOUS athleticism" thread and the "Countdown to destroying Carwin" threads. Yes I know thats what Brock called his video, but the general statements made was that he was going to walk through Carwin. Borck said he was back to 100% and better than ever. Now all of this sudden thats ring rust?
> 
> The first round should have been stopped imo. Brock shouldn't have made it out either.


Brock didn't mention it (fighters usually don't its bad for the hype up) but a lot of people did when trying to make their picks for the fight.


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

There's going to be alot of sad WWE fans after this fight! 
Cain will pick him apart.

Get the vbookie up now and I'll place my entire purse on Cain


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

MikeHawk said:


> What's your point? Neither of those guys are wrestlers. Herring isn't even top 10 for that matter. Once he fought an actual wrestler, Randy, he didn't look all that unstoppable like everyone says he is.
> Then in the Carwin fight he didn't even get a takedown until Carwin was completely gassed.
> Randy isn't even close to the best wrestler in UFC history. Where do you get this stuff?


Oh so it's not enough to show his skills as a wrestler you also want to see it against world class wrestlers in the HW division like um.....and who.....and that.....oh wait THERE AREN'T ANY! You wanted examples of his wrestling I gave them to you.

Randy was a 3-time Olympic alternate that means he was at the top of his game for 12 years *before* he entered MMA. And while you could make arguments for other Olympians like Linland, Coleman, and Severn, Randy's done a hell of a lot more in the sport. 

Hey maybe Dan Severn can get a title shot to prove what a world class wrestler Brock is. (okay that would be awesome)


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

lol, this just gets more and more ridiculous. Plenty of posters here were questioning whether or not Brock would be slower, smaller, and rustier. We're talking a year off, a good chunk of it spent ill and recuperating. If you don't think the aforementioned take a toll on your first performance back, then I don't know what to tell you. You're obviously not a fighter, nor have you ever experienced the situation. Not that you'd have to be a fighter... it's common sense. 

And be serious. Did you honestly expect Brock to come out and say, 'I feel slower, so please rush me, Shane'? He's not going to point out his deficiencies or talk about how he doesn't yet feel 100%. Of course he's going to proclaim, 'I'm back and ready to roll'. What fighter in his or her right mind would say otherwise? My Lord, the things some of you people type. 

I also see we're still failing to recognize the fact that Brock failed on all of two take downs because he was rocked, but that we're defending Shane for being taken down because he was gassed. Once again, I love the hypocrisy.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

John8204 said:


> Oh so it's not enough to show his skills as a wrestler you also want to see it against world class wrestlers in the HW division like um.....and who.....and that.....oh wait THERE AREN'T ANY! You wanted examples of his wrestling I gave them to you.
> 
> Randy was a 3-time Olympic alternate that means he was at the top of his game for 12 years *before* he entered MMA. And while you could make arguments for other Olympians like Linland, Coleman, and Severn, Randy's done a hell of a lot more in the sport.
> 
> Hey maybe Dan Severn can get a title shot to prove what a world class wrestler Brock is. (okay that would be awesome)


We've already seen him against two people with decent wrestling. Randy and Carwin. Both of them showed that Brock isn't as unstoppable as people think he is. Which leads me to believe Cain has what it takes to negate Brock's "unstoppable takedowns".

Randy is much better at the clinch game than straight up wrestling. GSP is by far the best MMA wrestler there is right now.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

MikeHawk said:


> We've already seen him against two people with decent wrestling. Randy and Carwin. *Both of them showed that Brock isn't as unstoppable as people think he is.* Which leads me to believe Cain has what it takes to negate Brock's "unstoppable takedowns".
> 
> Randy is much better at the clinch game than straight up wrestling. GSP is by far the best MMA wrestler there is right now.


And yet neither of them won. I'm sorry, but that's all there is to it. You're trying far too hard to discredit Brock, and you're grasping at the most ridiculous of straws to do so. Is Brock a total fighter? No, he has much to learn. But this whole, 'the next person he faces will be the one to beat him because of this and that' routine is getting rather tiresome. Especially with your line of reasoning.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> And yet neither of them won. I'm sorry, but that's all there is to it. You're trying far too hard to discredit Brock, and you're grasping at the most ridiculous of straws to do so. Is Brock a total fighter? No, he has much to learn. But this whole, 'the next person he faces will be the one to beat him because of this and that' routine is getting rather tiresome. Especially with your line of reasoning.


The only thing I'm trying to discredit is the opinion that Brock has these unstoppable takedowns. I'm not grasping at anything, I'm analyzing his previous fights and comparing them to new competition.
I never once thought Carwin or Randy would beat Brock. Don't try and compare me to the other bandwagon Brock haters out there.

I didn't even say Cain would beat Brock. I just give him a much better chance than Carwin for a few reasons.

1. Probably the best cardio in the HW divison.
2. He has the most technical kickboxing out of anyone Brock's faced.
3. Great composure and recovery
4. His wrestling is top notch.
5. He's young and he's hungry for the belt.

Do I think he'll win? Who knows. It all depends on how he deals with the size of Lesnar.


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## Pretty Cool Guy (Jun 27, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> And yet neither of them won. I'm sorry, but that's all there is to it. You're trying far too hard to discredit Brock, and you're grasping at the most ridiculous of straws to do so. Is Brock a total fighter? No, he has much to learn. But this whole, 'the next person he faces will be the one to beat him because of this and that' routine is getting rather tiresome. Especially with your line of reasoning.


I agree, it's getting really old. I think most of the haters are MMA "purists"- those who believe that MMA is predicated upon the belief that large juggernauts can be beaten by smaller men. They're mad that Brock is redefining the sport, and forcing other fighters to evolve.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

I completely agree with MikeHawk. He isnt trying to discredit him as a wrestler or say his wrestling is bad, hes just saying that his take downs arnt as good or as unstoppable as the ufc is hyping them up to be, especially against other wrestlers. Looking at his fights, this is the truth. He really struggled to control randy and carwin fairly easily brushed off brocks take downs in round 1.

I know for sure im having a bet on cain, im very confident he takes this fight. Hes an excellent wrestler with great cardio, i cant see brock taking him down.


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## Fedorthebest (Jun 1, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> I completely agree with MikeHawk. He isnt trying to discredit him as a wrestler or say his wrestling is bad, hes just saying that his take downs arnt as good or as unstoppable as the ufc is hyping them up to be, especially against other wrestlers. Looking at his fights, this is the truth. He really struggled to control randy and carwin fairly easily brushed off brocks take downs in round 1.
> 
> I know for sure im having a bet on cain, im very confident he takes this fight. Hes an excellent wrestler with great cardio, i cant see brock taking him down.


your cain doesn't stand a chance...sorryyyyyyyyy
he will be raped on the ground too difference between cain and brock,u can say he have a chance standing up,but on the ground...rip


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Size does matter, but there should be a different weight class down the line to accomodate the super heavy weights. There's a variance of 15 - 20 lbs between each incremental weight class. HW is 225-265. That's doubled and even crazier because Brock weighs in at 285 come fight time where the rest of the HWs come in exactly at the weight they come in. 

Not going to take away anything from Brock. He showed his striking is his weakness and was turtling at the bottom, however his heart, endurance, and resilience made up for that and he came back for the win. 

Cain has a tough battle ahead of him. He's going to have pick his strike, have the best cardio of his life and be scrambling like crazy. It can be done, but all points to Brock taking a UD victory or perhaps another submission.


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## Fedorthebest (Jun 1, 2010)

No_Mercy said:


> Size does matter, but there should be a different weight class down the line to accomodate the super heavy weights. There's a variance of 15 - 20 lbs between each incremental weight class. HW is 225-265. That's doubled and even crazier because Brock weighs in at 285 come fight time where the rest of the HWs come in exactly at the weight they come in.
> 
> Not going to take away anything from Brock. He showed his striking is his weakness and was turtling at the bottom, however his heart, endurance, and resilience made up for that and he came back for the win.
> 
> Cain has a tough battle ahead of him. He's going to have pick his strike, have the best cardio of his life and be scrambling like crazy. It can be done, but all points to Brock taking a UD victory or perhaps another submission.


brock was 298 at his best


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

The key is power, does Cain have the power to put Brock in trouble or knock him out?

There's no doubt that Cain's skills & techniques are more advanced & refined, especially his striking which is quite crisp. However if he doesn't have the power to hurt Brock or at least make him a bit worried & hesitent, he's going to get Brock-smashed like everyone else. I don't think we have a definitive answer, he did drop Nogueira with one punch, but on the other hand he couldn't put Kongo away and he never dropped Ben Rothwell out cold the way Arlovski did.

I would give the edge to Brock, Carwin couldn't put him away with his power punches and the only thing that's worse than getting hit with those shots is eating a Cro Cop left high kick. Cain's gonna have his work cut out for him.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

aerius said:


> The key is power, does Cain have the power to put Brock in trouble or knock him out?
> 
> There's no doubt that Cain's skills & techniques are more advanced & refined, especially his striking which is quite crisp. However if he doesn't have the power to hurt Brock or at least make him a bit worried & hesitent, he's going to get Brock-smashed like everyone else. I don't think we have a definitive answer, he did drop Nogueira with one punch, but on the other hand he couldn't put Kongo away and he never dropped Ben Rothwell out cold the way Arlovski did.
> 
> I would give the edge to Brock, Carwin couldn't put him away with his power punches and the only thing that's worse than getting hit with those shots is eating a Cro Cop left high kick. Cain's gonna have his work cut out for him.


Yep...I've been a proponent of Crocop being the only one to be able to KO Brock definitively. "IF" Brock takes out Cain and JDS then I'm convinced it'll take someone like Werdum (wizard on the ground), maybe Ubereem, but someone who can flash KO Brock. It would appear that's the only chance. 

What can you do...it would now appear that Brock not only has super human strength, titanium plated head (which might prove why he's a bit dense at times), hammer fists from hell, and new found submission game.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Okay the UFC should stop saying "unstoppable takedowns" from now on the UFC should say once Brock takes you down (in the second round) then you get stopped.

Frankly I credit the guy who puts you down and wins rather than the guys that put you down and doesn't lose (Evans, GSP, Koscheck).


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## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

IMHO you can't really take anything specifically from this fight and apply it to Brock's future potential fights against other fighters because Carwin's size and power had Brock fighting a very DEFENSIVE fight from the start. I didn't think Brock was sluggish so much as he was showing respect for Carwin's power; punching power that NO ONE ELSE in the division has. Couple that with the year long layoff due to illness and this was a very UNIQUE situation in which Brock was very vulnerable. 

Against every other fighter in the division other than Carwin, Brock is going to be the AGGRESSOR putting the other guy back on his heels. Cain may have better technique but how will that help him if Brock is on him chest-to-chest? Cain may have good cardio and lets say Cain stuffs the TD of Brock and is able to keep the fight standing against the cage... how long will that cardio last with a 280-pound mammoth leaning on him? I think Cain has a chance to beat Brock ONLY if he stays away, runs circles around Brock a la Edgar-Penn, and outboxes him. Never mind the TD, if this is becomes even a standing clinch fight then Cain is in trouble. Go back and watch Lesnar-Couture and watch the knees that were literally lifting Randy off the ground.


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## zkorejo (Jul 3, 2010)

LOL Velasquez looked like he was scared of Lesnar after watching Carwin v Lesnar. I think this one will be a good convincing win for Brock Lesnar.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

I think he is gonna get murdered....its a good 1st loss though...:dunno:


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## Icculus (Oct 4, 2009)

I think Cain actually matches up pretty well against Brock. I dont think Brock will be able to manhandle him on the ground the way he did to Mir, and honestly I think he's gonna have a hell of a time getting him down anyway.

The only prob for Cain is that after watching 116 I cant imagine him finishing Brock.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

I honestly think that Cain is going to dominate Brock. I am not a Brock hater at all, I actually like him a little. Here's why Cain will win...

1. Far better stand up. His boxing and his kicks look fantastic and he is rapidly improving. I'm very curious to see how his striking looks against Brock.

2. Brock hates getting hit. He can definitely take a hit without getting KO'd. He proved that against Carwin. However, he doesn't look like a fighter when he gets hit. He looks extremely uncomfortable and he goes into panic mode and shoots for mediocre take downs.

3. Wrestling advantage goes to Cain. Brock is an awesome wrestler and combined with his size it's quite scary. However, Cain is better than an awesome wrestler. He has some of the best wrestling in all of mma. The size and strength advantage won't be enough for Brock to out wrestle Cain. I think Cain will defend Brock's take downs and will be able to take Brock down if he wants to. 

4. Cardio. Brock will not have anywhere near the cardio that Cain has. If Cain has Brock hurt, I expect him to have the cardio to finish the fight unlike Carwin did. 

I see Cain hurting Brock in the stand up enough to make him go to the ground like Carwin did and finishing the fight there. Not only do I see Cain winning, but I see him making it look easy. I might have to bet on this fight because the odds are going to be so stacked against Cain. Sorry to any Brock fans that think I'm just being a troll. This is just how I see it going.


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## JesusishoruS (Jul 5, 2010)

I think Velasquez has a good chance to win if he uses his superior boxing skills to outpoint Lesnar. Other than that though, I really don't see him being able to get the big man off him if it goes to the ground.

And hats off to Lesnar for taking a decent uppercut, big knee and HUGE elbow on the ground that almost compressed his chin and knocked out his mouthpiece. I don't care what you say, the dude can take a HELL of a hit. Watch the elbow and tell me that wouldn't have knocked out 99% of everyone else in the HW division. And to those saying it should have been stopped... at what point did Carwin really tee off on him? Did you see Brock drop his hands? Did you see him go limp? Or did you see him cover his whole head and face with his huge forearms and push Carwin off with his legs every chance he got. That's what I saw. He was covering up and intelligently defending himself, sure a few punches got through, but never to any volume that would have caused a stoppage IMHO.

Great fights and very impressed with Chris Leben. Like the dude says, once you hit that button on his chin he just starts swinging on instinct. Love to watch him fight and never gets old seeing him progress each and every fight.


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## caveman (Aug 16, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> I think he is gonna get murdered....its a good 1st loss though...:dunno:


yeah he is to small


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

JesusishoruS said:


> And hats off to Lesnar for taking a decent uppercut, big knee and HUGE elbow on the ground that almost compressed his chin and knocked out his mouthpiece. I don't care what you say, the dude can take a HELL of a hit. Watch the elbow and tell me that wouldn't have knocked out 99% of everyone else in the HW division. And to those saying it should have been stopped... at what point did Carwin really tee off on him? Did you see Brock drop his hands? Did you see him go limp? Or did you see him cover his whole head and face with his huge forearms and push Carwin off with his legs every chance he got. That's what I saw. He was covering up and intelligently defending himself, sure a few punches got through, but never to any volume that would have caused a stoppage IMHO.


yeah exactly, just look at the mir fights against carwin and brock, he was getting hit straight in the face plenty of times without defending himself and it took a while for the refs to stop it while brock was defending himself intelligently against carwin.


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## Can.Opener (Apr 8, 2009)

Cain is too small.

Yea his standup is crisp and he has KO power, but giving up 30-40lbs? Cain has no submission game and his ground and pound is anything but spectacular (see Kongo).

Cain might be able to keep it standing for the first round, but it wont be enough. Brock will get on top and Donkey Kong or pull out another choke with those tree trunks he calls arms.


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## JesusishoruS (Jul 5, 2010)

Can.Opener said:


> Cain is too small.
> 
> Yea his standup is crisp and he has KO power, but giving up 30-40lbs? Cain has no submission game and his ground and pound is anything but spectacular (see Kongo).
> 
> Cain might be able to keep it standing for the first round, but it wont be enough. Brock will get on top and Donkey Kong or pull out another choke with those tree trunks he calls arms.


Yeah man, he's got gorilla arms. When I saw those huge arms start torquing Carwin's neck and the veins in his arms start bulging out I knew that Brock had scary strength. To which I don't think many trapped in that mans grasp will be able to escape.

I firmly believe that Randy will work and improve Brock's stand up for the Cain fight. You have to figure the guy in front of Brock this time was damn near identical in size and stature and had knocked out 11 guys in the first round. Shit, I'd be more than a little intimidated myself. He shelled up, caught an uppercut he couldn't see on the jaw and it rocked him against the cage. Carwin was in kill mode and Brock did what he had to do to survive and survived. 

If this was flipped, I can imagine some Carwin fans or Brock haters saying, "See, Carwin took the beating and persevered. Then tapped that p**** out! Told you he belonged in the WWE, not MMA." I mean shit, give credit where credit is due, right?

Brock showed heart, desire and an ever evolving skill set. Plus at the end he was humble. While he does have a tendency to be a tad overdramatic... what more do you want from a champ? That's my two cents.


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## JonCR96Z (Sep 16, 2009)

diablo5597 said:


> 1. Far better stand up. His boxing and his kicks look fantastic and he is rapidly improving. I'm very curious to see how his striking looks against Brock.


 He has good boxing but nowhere near Carwin's power. And kicks make for good take downs. Cain hasn't fought a good wrestler.



diablo5597 said:


> 2. Brock hates getting hit. He can definitely take a hit without getting KO'd. He proved that against Carwin. However, he doesn't look like a fighter when he gets hit. He looks extremely uncomfortable and he goes into panic mode and shoots for mediocre take downs.


Brock looked very stiff in this fight. Be it fear of Carwin's power or ring rust. He just wasn't how he normally fights. And I think now he can look at this fight and see where he needs to improve. If he takes nothing from this then he may get beaten, but I'm sure he will train differently now



diablo5597 said:


> 3. Wrestling advantage goes to Cain. Brock is an awesome wrestler and combined with his size it's quite scary. However, Cain is better than an awesome wrestler. He has some of the best wrestling in all of mma. The size and strength advantage won't be enough for Brock to out wrestle Cain. I think Cain will defend Brock's take downs and will be able to take Brock down if he wants to.


Because he held Kongo down? Or Ben Rothwell. I didn't know that qualified anyone to be one of the best.



diablo5597 said:


> 4. Cardio. Brock will not have anywhere near the cardio that Cain has. If Cain has Brock hurt, I expect him to have the cardio to finish the fight unlike Carwin did.


Brock may not have the cardio that Cain has and it may not even be possible due to his size, but sometimes you can finish fights without cardio. Look at all of Carwin's previous fights.



diablo5597 said:


> I see Cain hurting Brock in the stand up enough to make him go to the ground like Carwin did and finishing the fight there. Not only do I see Cain winning, but I see him making it look easy. I might have to bet on this fight because the odds are going to be so stacked against Cain. Sorry to any Brock fans that think I'm just being a troll. This is just how I see it going.



Spoken like a troll.


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

Walter said:


> How do people see Brock winning this ? Taking Cain down then pounding him out like Mir ? Well placed punch like Randy ? I give Cain a good chance here, hopefully train his defensive wrestling enough to keep it standing like Randy and Carwin, then outpoint him on the feet for 5 rounds. And if Cain manages to drop Brock, he probably won't gas trying to finish him, but go back to his bread and butter, top control.
> 
> *Is JDS that much bigger than Cain ?* I wouldn't favor JDS vs Brock because his wrestling is untested, and probably not high level yet. I'd say 2.7 are decent odds on Cain, and 3 are great.


Exactly what I was gonna say. And no, if I'm not mistaken - JDS came in at around 240 against Gonzaga ...


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

> JonCR96Z;1217948]He has good boxing but nowhere near Carwin's power. And kicks make for good take downs. Cain hasn't fought a good wrestler.


He hits plenty hard if he lands a good punch. Ask Big Nog.




> Brock looked very stiff in this fight. Be it fear of Carwin's power or ring rust. He just wasn't how he normally fights. And I think now he can look at this fight and see where he needs to improve. If he takes nothing from this then he may get beaten, but I'm sure he will train differently now


Different then how he normally fights? I recall him acting in the same exact manner when Frank Mir landed a few shots on him standing. Brock can take it hit but he sure looks uncomfortable doing so.





> Because he held Kongo down? Or Ben Rothwell. I didn't know that qualified anyone to be one of the best.


Now you are putting words in my mouth. It's clear to me just from watching that his wrestling is better than Lesners. Not because he held down kongo or Rothwell



> Brock may not have the cardio that Cain has and it may not even be possible due to his size, but sometimes you can finish fights without cardio. Look at all of Carwin's previous fights.


All I'm saying is that Cain has the advantage there and it may play a factor.




> Spoken like a troll.


What in my post was trollish even a little bit? Thinking that Cain would win makes me a troll? :confused03:


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Some great points. 

What's always struck me as strange is how deeply some fans identify with specific fighters as if they had some vested interest in the outcomes of the fights. 

Aside from losing some chump change in a bet, or losing a few credits, there's nothing at stake PERSONALLY SPEAKING. 

Point being, it clouds people's judgment: it's amusing yet worrisome at the same time. 



JonCR96Z said:


> He has good boxing but nowhere near Carwin's power. And kicks make for good take downs. Cain hasn't fought a good wrestler.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

zkorejo said:


> LOL Velasquez looked like he was scared of Lesnar after watching Carwin v Lesnar. I think this one will be a good convincing win for Brock Lesnar.


Funny you mention that.... I thought I saw that also.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Majortom505 said:


> Funny you mention that.... I thought I saw that also.


Lolz...lolz...I saw that, but it looked more of a concerned look like wtf am I supposed to do if Carwin can't even put him away. Man, I'm still stunned...


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

I really dont understand some peoples thinking logic on this forum at times, i really dont. Right, Lesnar loses a 10-8 round and gets the absolute shit kicked out of him and then wins in round 2 because the other man was too tired and all of a sudden lesnar is invincible? C;mon, how on earth does this make him unstoppable? It proves that he is quite the opposite.

It has been proved that Lesnar has a hard time taking other wrestlers down and controlling them. This has been proved in both the Couture and Carwin fights. He could ony take carwin down in the second because carwin had nothing left, honestly, he was fucked. Randy looked like a midget in comparison to Brock and brock was still sturggling to control randy, when ever he got randy down, randy worked well and got back up to his feet quite quickly.

Im just not understanding how people think hes some unstoppable monster in the cage, when it has been proved time and time again that he really isnt? 

Cains striking is leaps and bounds better than Brocks, he has better cardio, he is faster and he also has amazing wrestling. Now then, if Brock struggled to take down and control randy and Carwin, why is it you think Brock is going to destroy Velasquez? I just dont understand this logic at all.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

I thought about this fight again as well. 

and like McKeever, I just can not see how Cain could lose this fight!


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> I really dont understand some peoples thinking logic on this forum at times, i really dont. Right, Lesnar loses a 10-8 round and gets the absolute shit kicked out of him and then wins in round 2 because the other man was too tired and all of a sudden lesnar is invincible? C;mon, how on earth does this make him unstoppable? It proves that he is quite the opposite.
> 
> It has been proved that Lesnar has a hard time taking other wrestlers down and controlling them. This has been proved in both the Couture and Carwin fights. He could ony take carwin down in the second because carwin had nothing left, honestly, he was fucked. Randy looked like a midget in comparison to Brock and brock was still sturggling to control randy, when ever he got randy down, randy worked well and got back up to his feet quite quickly.
> 
> ...


i think that cain will win but that "brock struggled to take down carwin" stuff is bullshit, he ate a right hand from a fresh carwin as he shot, you could even hear it and he still took carwin down but only had wizzer so carwin got back up. also randy has been wrestling a long time so there is no point bringing randy into but having said that brock will have as much trouble if not more, taking cain down like you said. 

on a side note if a awful striker like carwin can crack brock coming in than i wonder what will happen to randy when he try's to take toney down?


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## Fedorthebest (Jun 1, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> I thought about this fight again as well.
> 
> and like McKeever, I just can not see how Cain could lose this fight!


oh u will see man,u will see : )


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Fedorthebest said:


> oh u will see man,u will see : )


Hey man.

Fedor is not the best.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Cain has legs like tree trunks. His centre of gravity is probably somewhere between his thighs! ( I exaggerate, but hey )

The little stumpy fecker poses different problems than the others. To discount him is madness. I believe he can get under and take down anybody. I also think his body type makes him a tricky sumnbitch to take down. Brock is gonna need to get down real low to get that TD. He's certainly not going to trip him. Cain will take this one. If he doesn't, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest.


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## cbl46151 (Aug 15, 2009)

Cain has more speed and cardio than Carwin. Carwin looked a little quicker than Brock on saturday. I think cain wins this easily. Cain by 2nd round TKO.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Cain's chances = Very good!
Good boxing, insane cardio, good wrestling, good chin!
I said it before...i would love to hear he has put some weight on him (like 10 lbs...but there is still time before he fights Brock).


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

I'm done with all these threads where the Brock haters vent.
One after another, all saying the same things by the same people. Meh

The first step of grief is DENIAL. It can go on for years without help.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Majortom505 said:


> I'm done with all these threads where the Brock haters vent.
> One after another, all saying the same things by the same people. Meh
> 
> The first step of grief is DENIAL. It can go on for years without help.


Shut 
The
****
Up

No one is hating on Brock, he earned my respect.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Majortom505 said:


> I'm done with all these threads where the Brock haters vent.
> One after another, all saying the same things by the same people. Meh
> 
> The first step of grief is DENIAL. It can go on for years without help.


Lol, so since you can't argue back because you have absolutely no points to make, you just resort to calling us Brock haters? Nice.

Cain has all of the tools to beat Brock. The deciding factor will be how he deals with Lesnar's size.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

I think Cain has a decent chance against Brock.

However, there is something scary in the works...a humbled Brock.

I don't think any UFC HW can beat "humbled Brock".


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

suniis said:


> I think Cain has a decent chance against Brock.
> 
> However, there is something scary in the works...a humbled Brock.
> 
> I don't think any UFC HW can beat "humbled Brock".


Brock isnt humbled. Hes the same arrogant man that thinks hes the best in the world. He'll probably now think that no man in the world is capable of knocking him out because he survived carwin. Brocks ego is almost the size of his freak back.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

There's a very strong argument to suggest that he is the best in the world TBF, he's UFC HW champion, just overcame a massive challenge in Carwin and now has wins over Carwin, Mir, Couture and Herring. He's the Number 1 Heavyweight in the world for mine.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Brock isnt humbled. Hes the same arrogant man that thinks hes the best in the world. He'll probably now think that no man in the world is capable of knocking him out because he survived carwin. Brocks ego is almost the size of his freak back.


I'm not sure what you are basing that on...but it's your opinion.

I suppose we'll have to wait and see...


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

suniis said:


> I'm not sure what you are basing that on...but it's your opinion.
> 
> I suppose we'll have to wait and see...


Its obvious man. The way Brock was punching himself on the chin and smiling for his post fight celebration. Seriously, i bet the dude thinks hes invincible right now, that no one can stop him. Brock is just one of those ego type guys, hes in the same league as koscheck, tito, hughes etc. Huge ego guys.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Its obvious man. The way Brock was punching himself on the chin and smiling for his post fight celebration. Seriously, i bet the dude thinks hes invincible right now, that no one can stop him. Brock is just one of those ego type guys, hes in the same league as koscheck, tito, hughes etc. Huge ego guys.


I'd have to disagree. That first round humbled Brock more than anything could have. Even he knows how lucky he was to not have the fight stopped.

Hell, I'd be celebrating like that to if I was moments away from losing my title then come back with the most unlikely way to win.


----------



## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Its obvious man. The way Brock was punching himself on the chin and smiling for his post fight celebration. Seriously, i bet the dude thinks hes invincible right now, that no one can stop him. Brock is just one of those ego type guys, hes in the same league as koscheck, tito, hughes etc. Huge ego guys.


Actually, I think he is very aware that he came close to looking like a bitch...

I think we will see a different Brock next time...too bad for Cain


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

MikeHawk said:


> I'd have to disagree. That first round humbled Brock more than anything could have. Even he knows how lucky he was to not have the fight stopped.


Agree to disagree. Koscheck wasnt humbled when GSP schooled him at his own game, Hughes wasnt humbled when BJ whooped his ass, tito.......no need for an explanation. Brock has the same kind of personality as these guys. Im Brock, im the biggest, im the best, i dont think any thing will change that, thats just who he is. Not saying im against it either, the guy cracks me up.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Agree to disagree. Koscheck wasnt humbled when GSP schooled him at his own game, Hughes wasnt humbled when BJ whooped his ass, tito.......no need for an explanation. Brock has the same kind of personality as these guys. Im Brock, im the biggest, im the best, i dont think any thing will change that, thats just who he is. Not saying im against it either, the guy cracks me up.


I thought pretty much the same thing you did. Then I watched his post fight press conference. He actually seems pretty down to earth about it. Nothing he said had a "im better than you" attitude.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

MikeHawk said:


> I thought pretty much the same thing you did. Then I watched his post fight press conference. He actually seems pretty down to earth about it. Nothing he said had a "im better than you" attitude.


Ive actually not see the post fight conference yet, i'll have to check it out in that case.


----------



## Fedorthebest (Jun 1, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Hey man.
> 
> Fedor is not the best.


oh i know i know,Brock is the n.1 then there is Fedor and Carwin...
Cain?no chance sorry man


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> I thought about this fight again as well.
> 
> and like McKeever, I just can not see how Cain could lose this fight!


 
*Bobby*:confused02:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> *Bobby*:confused02:


Cain is faster, has better cardio, has way better stand up. Brock has size.

You do the math :thumb02:


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## Fedorthebest (Jun 1, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Cain is faster, has better cardio, has way better stand up. Brock has size.
> 
> You do the math :thumb02:


ahahahahahahahaahahahah
so i can say brock is stronger,has equal cardio,has way better ground control and has size...pls grow a little...


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Fedorthebest said:


> ahahahahahahahaahahahah
> so i can say brock is stronger,has equal cardio,has way better ground control and has size...pls grow a little...


Brock is stronger, the rest of your claims are false. Cain has better cardio and infact has proven to have better mma wrestling.


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## Fedorthebest (Jun 1, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Brock is stronger, the rest of your claims are false. Cain has better cardio and infact has proven to have better mma wrestling.


proven by u...u will see when he will fight against lesnar who is better on the ground (brock) moreover remember that u have never seen Brock gassed so don't tell bullshit also about that thx


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Fedorthebest said:


> proven by u...u will see when he will fight against lesnar who is better on the ground (brock) moreover remember that u have never seen Brock gassed so don't tell bullshit also about that thx


He looked gassed in the Randy fight. Cain has never shown any sign of gassing.


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

I think Cain stands a decent chance. I know I called the Carwin/Lesnar fight wrong (picked Carwin by 1st round KO... I was so close!) but I think Cain has got a decent shot.

Again looking at the Couture/Lesnar fight, Lesnar wasn't having his way with Couture in the clinch. You could tell it was taking more out of Couture's gas tank to keep it close to even grappling, but still. Combine that with the fact that Cain knows how to throw punches, and I don't think we've got a bad fight on our hands. 

I give the edge to Lesnar for sheer size and takedown ability, but I definitely think Cain has got a good shot at stopping him.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Cain is faster, has better cardio, has way better stand up. Brock has size.
> 
> You do the math :thumb02:


 
I've done the Math.....it works out to Brock....deal with it cuz I am gonna hunt you down and make you remember this thread....I can already tell you your wrong...:thumb02:


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## Fedorthebest (Jun 1, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> He looked gassed in the Randy fight. Cain has never shown any sign of gassing.


yeah he was so gassed that he finished Randy...however u will see u will see what cain will do on the ground against brock...


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> I've done the Math.....it works out to Brock....deal with it cuz I am gonna hunt you down and make you remember this thread....I can already tell you your wrong...:thumb02:


I failed to make any sense of this post. Maybe you should brush up on your maths :thumb02:


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

I'm going to say Cain has a 30% chance of winning this fight. Lesnar will kill him his size plus his wrestling ability outclasses cain. Standing up wise unless cain can pressure brock will win this too. Lesnar will work on his stand up for cain, plus cain does not have deadly knockout power, hell i'll give brock the knouck out power in this fight. Lesnar First round ground and pound.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Big Nasty said:


> Just want to emphasise that i am a big cain velasquez fan but im not so sure how he will do against Brock.
> 
> Brock gained alot of respect from me today with his heart and composure.
> 
> ...


I'm becoming a Lesnar fan (mostly because all of the haters), but I see Cain with an excellent chance. He's strong enough and has enough wrestling talent to keep it standing. The thing working best for Lesnar right now is the fact his weaknesses got exposed and he can go back with his team and work on them. But i have no doubt either guy can win. I might even give Cain the edge over JDS against Brock, just because of his wrestling.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Cain is faster, has better cardio, has way better stand up. Brock has size.
> 
> You do the math :thumb02:





Mckeever said:


> I failed to make any sense of this post. Maybe you should brush up on your maths :thumb02:


 
Let me help you understand, Cain is slower, weaker, and you have no way of knowing if his cardio is any better than Brock's, Brock has gone a very active three against HH and the only fights Cain has been in are three rounders......so your assumption of cardio is just that...an assumption......all of those facts add up to my conclusion so when you make your smirky remark to do the math.....

I have done the math, now if that doesn't make sense to you go back to school....:thumbsup:


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Let me help you understand, Cain is slower, weaker, and you have no way of knowing if his cardio is any better than Brock's, Brock has gone a very active three against HH and the only fights Cain has been in are three rounders......so your assumption of cardio is just that...an assumption......all of those facts add up to my conclusion so when you make your smirky remark to do the math.....
> 
> I have done the math, now if that doesn't make sense to you go back to school....:thumbsup:


Agreed. And his Cardio is against people who are a lot smaller and weaker than Brock. I doubt that Cain will have great cardio with that giant holding him down all the time.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Let me help you understand, Cain is slower, weaker, and you have no way of knowing if his cardio is any better than Brock's, Brock has gone a very active three against HH and the only fights Cain has been in are three rounders......so your assumption of cardio is just that...an assumption......all of those facts add up to my conclusion so when you make your smirky remark to do the math.....
> 
> I have done the math, now if that doesn't make sense to you go back to school....:thumbsup:


lol @ cain being slower. Cain is faster. There take down shot is about the same speed, but cains hand speed and general movement is faster than brock. Brocks punches are slow as hell.

Cains work rate in all of his fights have surpassed brocks, he keeps going like a machine. Cain is like the diego sanchez of the HW division in terms of cardio, i dont know how you could think otherwise.

Now lets add on top of this stand up where Cain is much better than Brock and wrestling where cain is equal to if not better than Brock.

Brock is bigger, brock is stronger,brock how ever is not more skilled. Maybe you should stay behind in maths class because its looking a little rusty.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> lol @ cain being slower. Cain is faster. There take down shot is about the same speed, but cains hand speed and general movement is faster than brock. Brocks punches are slow as hell.
> 
> Cains work rate in all of his fights have surpassed brocks, he keeps going like a machine. Cain is like the diego sanchez of the HW division in terms of cardio, i dont know how you could think otherwise.
> 
> ...


 
Sure....:thumbsup:


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Sure....:thumbsup:


Cant wait to see you eat your words when Cain destroys Brock. :thumbsup:


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

his chances? ridiculously good, another guy whos better. lets hope that it comes with a free Herb Dean this time.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Cant wait to see you eat your words when Cain destroys Brock. :thumbsup:


 
Care to bet that then???? I'll pay you 2-1 on all your credits right down to the last one....put your money where your mouth is....


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Care to bet that then???? I'll pay you 2-1 on all your credits right down to the last one....put your money where your mouth is....


Believe me i can put my money where my mouth is, hell, i'll go all in. Thats how confident i, am of Cain beating Lesnar. Lets go.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Believe me i can put my money where my mouth is, hell, i'll go all in. Thats how confident i, am of Cain beating Lesnar. Lets go.


 
Thats a bet Im bookmarking the page so dont act like you dont remember, and try to earn some more credits so I can take them all....:thumb02:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Thats a bet Im bookmarking the page so dont act like you dont remember, and try to earn some more credits so I can take them all....:thumb02:


Im just hoping you dont act like you dont remember. I'll bet everything i have on cain winning. I have only done a couple of bets on this site i think, hence my low credits. I'll bet on more for upcoming events.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Im just hoping you dont act like you dont remember. I'll bet everything i have on cain winning. I have only done a couple of bets on this site i think, hence my low credits. I'll bet on more for upcoming events.


 
If there is ne person I know i can count on to remind me its you buddy....:thumbsup: Trust me when I win I will be knocking....


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> If there is ne person I know i can count on to remind me its you buddy....:thumbsup: Trust me when I win I will be knocking....


Thats a shame because you aint winning any thing. I only place bets on things im very sure of and im very sure Cain is going to beat Brock.


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## Fedorthebest (Jun 1, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Thats a shame because you aint winning any thing. I only place bets on things im very sure of and im very sure Cain is going to beat Brock.


sure also carwin shoulded win right??ahahahah


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Fedorthebest said:


> sure also carwin shoulded win right??ahahahah


Nope. In the end i actually couldnt decide on a winner between brock/carwin, it was too close for me to call. I, am how ever, very sure cain has the skills to over come Brock.

I wish we could of put a kind of bet like this together for the machida/rua 2 fight cc.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> *Bobby*:confused02:


First I was like.. mhh, I am worried about Cain here. But then I thought about it again CC. 

Cain for me has unbeatable endurance a great chin and can probably go into the fifth round with the same Cardio like the first. Plus Cains striking is lightyears ahead of Brocks. And Brock will not be able to improve that until the fight happens. 

All Cain needs to prepare for here, is to stop Brocks takedowns. If he can stuff them like Carwin could do.. (and Cain is the much better Wrestler from the two) then he should be able to KO Brock in the first 3 Rounds. 
But even when Brock gets him down, I see Cain being much more acctive from his Back and probably getting back up to his feet. He will never submit Cain like he did Carwin.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> First I was like.. mhh, I am worried about Cain here. But then I thought about it again CC.
> 
> Cain for me has unbeatable endurance a great chin and can probably go into the fifth round with the same Cardio like the first. Plus Cains striking is lightyears ahead of Brocks. And Brock will not be able to improve that until the fight happens.
> 
> ...


 
No one has done that.....:thumbsup:


@ Keever....same for the first fight between them....


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> No one has done that.....:thumbsup:


But Carwin just did it CC!


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> But Carwin just did it CC!


 
Bobby, Brock took him straight down in the second....:confused02:


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Bobby, Brock took him straight down in the second....:confused02:


Yea CC lol^^ but he was out on his feet already buddy 

Cain has a gas tank for 50 Rounds and more! He just doesn't gas out NEVER!


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> Yea CC lol^^ but he was out on his feet already buddy
> 
> Cain has a gas tank for 50 Rounds and more! He just doesn't gas out NEVER!


 
When did Brock....geesh I cant believe Im defending Brock, he doesnt run out of gas either, he is just as agile and if you want in on the action we can do this....


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> When did Brock....geesh I cant believe Im defending Brock, he doesnt run out of gas either, he is just as agile and if you want in on the action we can do this....


I just have to go with Cain here CC! 

Brock does have very nice Cardio himself, thats very true! But I still favour Cain here.. but even if it would be equal, then Cain should be able to defend Brocks Takedowns for the majority of time or maybe even the entire time. I rank Cains Wrestling a lot higher then Carwins and even over Brocks. Even Brocks size won't help him here in my mind.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> I just have to go with Cain here CC!
> 
> Brock does have very nice Cardio himself, thats very true! But I still favour Cain here.. but even if it would be equal, then Cain should be able to defend Brocks Takedowns for the majority of time or maybe even the entire time. I rank Cains Wrestling a lot higher then Carwins and even over Brocks. Even Brocks size won't help him here in my mind.


 
So you wanna bet like say 50K straight up???:confused02:


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> So you wanna bet like say 50K straight up???:confused02:


Why not, lets do it 

I give ya 3:1 odds^^ nahh just kidding ;D


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> Why not, lets do it
> 
> I give ya 3:1 odds^^ nahh just kidding ;D


 
Nice 2 winning bets on one fight, just like Keever Im going to come looking for my credits....I still love ya though Bro!!!! 50K straight up....:thumbsup:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Im genuinely curious as to what you see in Brock that makes him so unstoppable CC, i really dont understand.

He was exposed so badly in the carwin fight. His biggest exposure being his non existent stand up. Its just plain horrible.

He got demolished by Carwin in round 1, DEMOLISHED. Then by round 2 like bobby said, Carwin was out on his feet. The only reason brock won that fight was because of Carwins poor conditioning, NOTHING ELSE! He wasnt the more skillfull fighter. His wrestling is over rated beyond belief. He couldnt do any thing to Carwin with his wrestling when they were both fresh and he couldnt do any thing to him on the feet. Can you imagine what would of happened if Carwin came out fresh in round 2?

I just dont understand how any one can come to the conclusion after watching lesnar getting his ass handed to him in a 10-8 round and then beat the other man because he could barley throw a punch makes him an unstoppable force. I really dont understand this logic at all, it makes no sense to me.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Im genuinely curious as to what you see in Brock that makes him so unstoppable CC, i really dont understand.
> 
> He was exposed so badly in the carwin fight. His biggest exposure being his non existent stand up. Its just plain horrible.
> 
> ...


 

First, you have to take into account that they are no where near the same opponents. Cain is goes to one thing above skill and I have said this since Brock got here. SIZE...Brock is just too big, Cain is not going to over power him, the speed isn't going to matter even if he were to take Brock down Brock will not stay there. 

I see Cain as too small to control Brock, to me the only one with a real shot at this point is Carwin with WAY FREAKIN better cardio.

Cain is not going to out last Brock in the cardio area either he simply isn't, Brock does train for his fights and I'm not sure why his cardio has even been questioned when really it hasn't even been an issue for him as of yet....:thumbsup:


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> First, you have to take into account that they are no where near the same opponents. Cain is goes to one thing above skill and I have said this since Brock got here. SIZE...Brock is just too big, Cain is not going to over power him, the speed isn't going to matter even if he were to take Brock down Brock will not stay there.
> 
> I see Cain as too small to control Brock, to me the only one with a real shot at this point is Carwin with WAY FREAKIN better cardio.
> 
> Cain is not going to out last Brock in the cardio area either he simply isn't, Brock does train for his fights and I'm not sure why his cardio has even been questioned when really it hasn't even been an issue for him as of yet....:thumbsup:


He looked visibly tired in the randy couture fight. Also on the topic of size and strength, why wasnt Brock able to rag doll Randy? Randy was dwarfed by Brock and then there is the fact that hes a 46 year old man! 46 years of age! If Brock struggled with controlling randy, hes going to have a hell of a hard time controlling Cain.

I will throw it out there again; skill overcomes size and strength.

I expect Cain to outclass Brock in every aspect of mixed martial arts. It isnt too late for you to change your mind cc.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> He looked visibly tired in the randy couture fight. Also on the topic of size and strength, why wasnt Brock able to rag doll Randy? Randy was dwarfed by Brock and then there is the fact that hes a 46 year old man! 46 years of age! If Brock struggled with controlling randy, hes going to have a hell of a hard time controlling Cain.
> 
> I will throw it out there again; skill overcomes size and strength.
> 
> I expect Cain to outclass Brock in every aspect of mixed martial arts. *It isnt too late for you to change your mind cc*.


 
Again.., it goes into each fight being different. The fight with randy i believe was Brock's most cautious fight with good reason, and you can attest to that when he brings Randy in to train him after the fact. 

The point is that randy is sneaky and Brock was going to make a Mir like mistake. i assure you he will approach Cain very different and if 2 wrestlers fight they tend to stand, I see Brock only needing to land one or two shots there to clean Cain....We disagree on their stand up but thats okay all that matters is whoever was wrong will def hear bout it after the fight.:thumb02:


EDIT: the bold part of your post makes me know your wrong already....LoL


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## Kin (May 22, 2007)

I like Cain a lot and I don't particularly care for Brock. I'm always rooting against Lesnar. That said, I don't give Cain very good chances at taking this. He's quicker, crisper, more technical...and 30+ pounds lighter than Brock. For technique to overcome size and strength, there has to be a pretty big disparity in skill. The difference between Carwin and Lesnar's skill is significant enough that I wouldn't give Brock a snowball's chance in hell, were they the same size, but the fact of the matter is that they aren't. 

The fact of the matter is that Brock is the biggest mofo around, that he's tough and durable, that he's got solid cardio, and that he actually has some pretty good skills. While his technique is nothing to behold or worship, it's solid enough to fortify his advantage over the competition in the physicality/athleticism department. Though he didn't properly earn his shot at the title, I strongly believe that he's earned his keep.

Putting that aside, let's be real here...

1) Brock Lesnar's takedowns aren't unstoppable. Before he was rocked, Carwin defended the patented Brock Lesnar Bullrush (tm). Yes, they both fell to the mat on their knees, but they both emerged on their feet. I forgot who was arguing contrary to this, but it doesn't count as a takedown if position isn't acquired.

Yes, Carwin got taken down in the second (when his fuel tank was on empty). But he stopped the other attempts, and stopping any at all proves that Lesnar's wrestling is not infallible. 

2) Cain has much better cardio. He's never showed signs of slowing, while Lesnar certainly has in the Herring fight. That said, Lesnar is much bigger and stronger than Cain. Each grappling engagement will tax Velasquez a lot heavier than Lesnar. Because of this, I am viewing their cardio as about even, depending on how the fight goes. If there's lots of grappling, advantage Brock. If there's lots of striking and moving, advantage Cain.

3) Cain doesn't have Carwin's power. It's possible that he could chisel away at Lesnar with his volume of strikes and his leg/body shots, but that's only if he survives long enough. Nothing that Cain has shown indicates that he'll hurt Lesnar like Carwin did, without first wearing Brock down. On the other hand, it didn't take much from Kongo to hurt Velasquez. Brock doesn't have one-hitter-quitter power, but he is definitely heavy handed. For me, there's a big question mark on what will happen when Brock hits Cain. 

All in all, Brock isn't as great as the nuthuggers claim -- but he's leagues above the image that his blind haters propagate. His takedowns are strong, but not unstoppable. His top control is heavy and taxing, but it can be escaped. His hands are very heavy, but he's not packing dynamite in them. He's quick and athletic, but has technical deficiencies. Brock's chin is solid (he didn't get KO'd by Carwin), but he doesn't react well to hard shots.

It's easy for anyone who isn't blind (one way or another) to pick out Lesnar's strengths and weaknesses. While he does have some glaring shortcomings, if you look at these traits in isolation, many of Brock's weak points are fortified by his strengths. If you look at the picture, as a whole, he's not an easy puzzle to solve -- as is indicative of the fact that he's still champion. 

There are many fighters who have the potential to beat him, at this point in time, I don't think that they actually will. 

Still, my fingers are crossed. War Velasquez!


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Again.., it goes into each fight being different. The fight with randy i believe was Brock's most cautious fight with good reason, and you can attest to that when he brings Randy in to train him after the fact.
> 
> The point is that randy is sneaky and Brock was going to make a Mir like mistake. i assure you he will approach Cain very different and if 2 wrestlers fight they tend to stand, I see Brock only needing to land one or two shots there to clean Cain....We disagree on their stand up but thats okay all that matters is whoever was wrong will def hear bout it after the fight.:thumb02:
> 
> ...


I was just hoping to change your mind to save the embarrassment come fight night :thumb02:

I look forward to the fight!

Great post above btw.


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## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

SonofJor-El said:


> Here's what's truly frightening to me about Brock.
> 
> Randy Couture is the ALL-TIME MASTER of the stand-up clinch game working against the fence. When Randy fought Brock, 90+% of that match took place in the standup clinch against the fence (where Randy is at his best) and Brock won in Rd2.
> 
> ...


Negative rep'd for this post? WOW! You Brock haters are truly and utterly ******* pathetic!

I'm just loving how Cain after struggling to contain Kongo and not even being able to finish Rothwell will now all of a sudden beat Brock with ease since he knocked out a heavy bag with eyeballs in Nog? HA! Let me play psychic here: If Brock beats Cain, JDS will sudddenly become the most dangerous HW in the UFC all of a sudden. Right? :sarcastic12:


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## suffersystem (Feb 4, 2007)

SonofJor-El said:


> Negative rep'd for this post? WOW! You Brock haters are truly and utterly ******* pathetic!
> 
> I'm just loving how Cain after struggling to contain Kongo and not even being able to finish Rothwell will now all of a sudden beat Brock with ease since he knocked out a heavy bag with eyeballs in Nog? HA! *Let me play psychic here: If Brock beats Cain, JDS will sudddenly become the most dangerous HW in the UFC all of a sudden. Right*? :sarcastic12:





That's exactly the way I see things happening.




I would put money on Brock for this fight, but not without alot of hesitation and worry. Brock was shown to be quite human after that fight, but I still think the man has what it takes to pull of the victory.

Another funny thing I though of just now, Brock is one hell of a competitor. After being exposed that he does not like getting hit, do you think his next training camp will involve people actually blasting away at him so he can get used to it? lmao. I honestly could see him doing it, the guy has alot of pride, and I imagine he himself wasn't happy with how the first round played out.


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## freakshowexcess (Apr 25, 2010)

I think the problem with a lot of the people who are saying Brock has no chance is that they are counting on Brock coming into the fight with Cain as the same fighter that stepped into the octagon with Carwin. Brock has already demonstrated that he can evolve and progress with his skills at an impressive rate, so I find it unlikely that he won't make improvements before his next title defense. I think he has better striking than the fight with Carwin would indicate, he just got caught and didn't really know how to react due to his inexperience. He will certainly continue to work on his standup game though, as it still clearly needs some work and he is definitely inferior to Cain in that regard. 

Also, as far as Brock's wrestling is concerned, not to knock Carwin's TDD, but Brock showed an inability to set up his takedowns with strikes, as he wanted nothing to do with Carwin on the feet. As he continues to work on his striking, and also now that he knows he can handle a solid punch, I think this will become less of an issue. Cain certainly has less power than Carwin, so I don't think Brock will be as quick to just cover up once he gets hit. However, he can't just try and walk right through Cain's punches to go for a takedown, as that will obviously not end well for him.

All of that being said, I am not trying to act like there's no way for Cain to win this fight, as he certainly has the skills to do so. This is a very intriguing fight in my eyes, and I am curious to see how it will play out. Will Cain overwhelm Brock on the feet? Will Brock be able to take it the ground, and if so, keep Cain on his back? I'm really not sure. I am not going to try and pretend like there is a clear cut favorite, as I can't really see how anybody could pick a decisive favorite. If I had to pick, I'd give an edge to Brock right now, but there are too many unknowns to really be certain. It depends on how Brock addresses the obvious holes in his game.


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

Big Nasty said:


> Just want to emphasise that i am a big cain velasquez fan but im not so sure how he will do against Brock.
> 
> Brock gained alot of respect from me today with his heart and composure.
> 
> ...


Anyone who can actually box, defend a takedown, and is close to the size of Brock can beat him-his run and hide style of boxing was a real eye opener - he will lose fights and he doesn't have what it takes to become a legend in the sport, imo.


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## Kin (May 22, 2007)

SonofJor-El said:


> HA! Let me play psychic here: If Brock beats Cain, *JDS will sudddenly become the most dangerous HW in the UFC all of a sudden.* Right? :sarcastic12:


Well, yes... To Brock at least, since JDS will be next in line.

I can understand both sides of this. As someone who is just waiting for Brock to lose, I can appreciate how people's hopes will rest on whoever's next in line to beat him. It's only natural to look to the future, rather than to dwell on the past -- if you look at it through the context of "can't wait for someone to beat Lesnar." On the other hand, sometime's people's biases and agendas clearly show through their assessments, which can be a bit tiresome at times.

And some people just love Shane Carwin, or Cain Velasquez, or Junior Dos Santos, or all of the above. 



suffersystem said:


> Another funny thing I though of just now, Brock is one hell of a competitor. After being exposed that he does not like getting hit, do you think his next training camp will involve people actually blasting away at him so he can get used to it? lmao. I honestly could see him doing it, the guy has alot of pride, and I imagine he himself wasn't happy with how the first round played out.


Unfortunately, you are right. 



freakshowexcess said:


> I think the problem with a lot of the people who are saying Brock has no chance is that they are counting on Brock coming into the fight with Cain as the same fighter that stepped into the octagon with Carwin. Brock has already demonstrated that he can evolve and progress with his skills at an impressive rate, so I find it unlikely that he won't make improvements before his next title defense. I think he has better striking than the fight with Carwin would indicate, he just got caught and didn't really know how to react due to his inexperience. He will certainly continue to work on his standup game though, as it still clearly needs some work and he is definitely inferior to Cain in that regard.
> 
> Also, as far as Brock's wrestling is concerned, not to knock Carwin's TDD, but Brock showed an inability to set up his takedowns with strikes, as he wanted nothing to do with Carwin on the feet. As he continues to work on his striking, and also now that he knows he can handle a solid punch, I think this will become less of an issue. Cain certainly has less power than Carwin, so I don't think Brock will be as quick to just cover up once he gets hit. However, he can't just try and walk right through Cain's punches to go for a takedown, as that will obviously not end well for him.
> 
> All of that being said, I am not trying to act like there's no way for Cain to win this fight, as he certainly has the skills to do so. This is a very intriguing fight in my eyes, and I am curious to see how it will play out. Will Cain overwhelm Brock on the feet? Will Brock be able to take it the ground, and if so, keep Cain on his back? I'm really not sure. I am not going to try and pretend like there is a clear cut favorite, as I can't really see how anybody could pick a decisive favorite. If I had to pick, I'd give an edge to Brock right now, but there are too many unknowns to really be certain. It depends on how Brock addresses the obvious holes in his game.


Good assessment. I agree that Brock will come in better and look different when he's not as afraid of getting KO'd. I also appreciate that you notice Brock's tendency to bull rush rather than set up his shots. Good post! i giv u repzz!1!!


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## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

SonofJor-El said:


> Let me play psychic here: If Brock beats Cain, JDS will sudddenly become the most dangerous HW in the UFC all of a sudden. Right? :sarcastic12:


Sadly in the world of haters thats how it works. I admit I have followed fimiliar mentality before, hoping Florian then Diego would drop Penn because I dislike Penn SOOOOOOO much. Funny enough I actually bet on Penn on the Edgar fight though. xD
However, I have to admit this constand wandwagon jumping looks hilarious, specially when people are making fools out of theirselves while doing it. Its ok though, after Brock finishes Cain and JDS people (even the haters) might actually start accepting him as the top dog of the division.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

slim to NONE..




JDS is the guy.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

For me, it isnt like first i was rooting for carwin to take out brock now im rooting for cain. I dont dislike Brock and i never really rated carwins skills, but i have been on the cain hype train for some time, way before the carwin/lesnar fight. I for one am not suddenly jumping on cains nuts in hope that he beats Brock, ive been supporting him for a while and have believed for a while that he is without a doubt the most promising, talented HW fighter in the UFC.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

since brock cant be KO'd or out wrestled I think we need a submission specialist to come dispose of him..

maybe Maia can move up?


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

I think Cain is technically a better wrestler then Brock and an argument for the size difference is that Cain has competed against Brock sized wrestlers in college. However, when you mix in the ability to pound someone's face, it becomes a new realm of competition. Having wrestled guys Brock's size isn't comparable to having fought guys Brock's size. 

I certainly don't count Cain out, he's a scary mix of striking and wrestling, but my bias is definitely toward Brock winning by some form of top control outcome. Brock may have the most unstoppable TD's once it's sunk it, but he's not really the quickest shooter, at least not from an upright, MMA stance. He can shoot quickly from a wrestling, T-Rex posture, but apart from taking an official wrestling stance, I think Cain could out sprawl Brock most of the time. However, I don't think Cain could avoid Brock 100% of the time and Brock only needs to obtain top control once to put Cain in a bad place.

Either way, there aren't any easy fights in the top HW division. Brock is my boy 100%, but I acknowledge the threat in Cain, JDS and then perhaps a Carwin rematch. Cain is relatively green and so is Brock, so we'll see. 

War Brock.


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## Admz (Sep 15, 2009)

Long before Carwin/Lesnar the Lesnar fanboys were like "Lesnar wrestling too 1337!!1!" and people who bought into the Carwin hype said "Carwin too strong!1!!"

Educated mma fans said "I give this fight a 50/50 chance, both fighters have a huge question mark to their game. Both have never fought anyone like their opponent, and this will be the biggest test of their careers"

At 116 both fighter's weaknesses and strengths were greatly exposed: Lesnar's stand-up is non-existant, as is Carwin's cardio. Carwin is a heavy slugger, but Lesnar has a hell of a chin.

The one fighter who may have benefited most from that fight has to be Cain. He has to examine that fight and use the strengths and weaknesses of Lesnar to implement his gameplan. The winner of a fight isn't always the fastest or strongest, but the smartest.

I believe Cain may have the tools to win, but his MMA IQ will be put to the test. I sure as hell won't be betting on this one.

In the end, whoever is holding the belt after this fight will only be keeping it warm for JDS. raise01:


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Admz said:


> Long before Carwin/Lesnar the Lesnar fanboys were like "Lesnar wrestling too 1337!!1!" and people who bought into the Carwin hype said "Carwin too strong!1!!"
> 
> Educated mma fans said "I give this fight a 50/50 chance, both fighters have a huge question mark to their game. Both have never fought anyone like their opponent, and this will be the biggest test of their careers"
> 
> ...


 
Not a Brock or Cain fan......def a JDS fan have him on my Fantasy Team......that said Brock will have the belt, and the only one that might take it from him is a Carwin with Cardio...LoL....or no body cramps.....:thumbsup:


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

JDS can and will take it. just sit back, relax and watch.


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## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

coldcall420 said:


> Not a Brock or Cain fan......def a JDS fan have him on my Fantasy Team......that said Brock will have the belt, and the only one that might take it from him is a Carwin with Cardio...LoL....or no body cramps.....:thumbsup:


Good to see you've finally seen the light. I would rep you but I need to spread it around first. :happy01:



vilify said:


> JDS can and will take it. just sit back, relax and watch.


JDS is one of the lighter HWs in the division with wrestling background, look for both Cain and Lesnar to ragdoll him. As would Carwin if he didn't get sucked into a striking duel.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Diablo....your on for the sig bet, so now its 50k straight up for me and Bobby, Mckeever is goin all in and Im matchin and now I have a sig bet with you.....my plate is now full!!!

:thumb02:


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

coldcall420 said:


> Diablo....your on for the sig bet, so now its 50k straight up for me and Bobby, Mckeever is goin all in and Im matchin and now I have a sig bet with you.....my plate is now full!!!
> 
> :thumb02:


You are so going down. I remember back when you thought big Nog was going to beat Cain too.:tongue01:


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

leifdawg said:


> Good to see you've finally seen the light. I would rep you but I need to spread it around first. :happy01:
> 
> *JDS is one of the lighter HWs in the division with wrestling background, look for both Cain and Lesnar to ragdoll him.* As would Carwin if he didn't get sucked into a striking duel.


That’s the likely scenario but JDS has far better footwork and movement that Carwin or Brock.
I think the only chance JDS has is to move often, use angles and try and hurt Brock.

Cain may be to small to outwrestle Brock but remember Randy Couture (who is even smaller than Cain) did pretty well against Brock and I think Cain is stronger and more mobile than Randy (though probably not a skilled in the clinch as Randy is the master).
Cain has among the most dynamic standup of the HWs listed in the top 10 and among the best cardio so if the fight went into the later rounds he might stand a chance.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Carwin unleashed the ground and pound from hell on Brock, and Brock ate it. Then he managed to pull off a fairly nice sub, whether Carwin was gassed or not. I've rarely had a kind word to say about Brock but in that fight he became totally legit in my eyes.

Sure he got dropped, and people are saying he got "exposed" but how can you say that.....he got *Carwin'd*, not exposed. Who else throws punches with that power? Cain ko'd Nog after he landed like 10 solid punches previously while Nog stood there like a mummy. Those combos aren't landing on Brock. I'm still not a fan but i'll give credit where it's due.


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## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

I'm picking Cain in this one because he is better all-around fighter. I thinks Brocks only chance is to land a nice punch and finish ala Randy otherwise Cain will outlast him and either finish him in the later rounds or win a decision.


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## Thermopyle (Jul 1, 2010)

There are only two ways that I envision Cain winning this fight:

1) He gets on his bike and rides. Winning a UD 48-47. He'd have to constantly move on the outside, avoid take downs, and dance in, tag Brock, dance out, etc. a lot. When he does get taken down, wrist control on Brock until they get stood up.

2) Clip Brock early and shut Brock off.

That said, I think Brock wins this one, taking Cain down and GnPing for the TKO win.


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## tap nap or snap (Jan 28, 2009)

I don't give cain much chance of beating brock, and i'm not a brock fan, actually the only HW i see beating brock out side of a matt serra style win, is carwin 2.0


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

tap nap or snap said:


> I don't give cain much chance of beating brock, and i'm not a brock fan, actually the only HW i see beating brock out side of a matt serra style win, is carwin 2.0


Anyone with good boxing skills with an ability to sprawl who weighs 240+ can beat Lesnar - he is an absolute spazz on his feet.


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

JDS is simply not a big enough dude to take Lesnar.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

mastodon2222 said:


> Anyone with good boxing skills with an ability to sprawl who weighs 240+ can beat Lesnar - he is an absolute spazz on his feet.


Guess that rules out Fedor.


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## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

mastodon2222 said:


> JDS is simply not a big enough dude to take Lesnar.





Calminian said:


> Guess that rules out Fedor.


And JDS


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

leifdawg said:


> And JDS


 He's still a question mark. The Bic C fight will answer that. Personally I'm just a fan of the UFC big 4. Anyone counting any of those guys out is crazy.


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## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

Calminian said:


> He's still a question mark. The Bic C fight will answer that. Personally I'm just a fan of the UFC big 4. Anyone counting any of those guys out is crazy.


Yeah, hopefully we will get to see Cain/JDS/Carwin fight each other if Brock remains on top.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Freiermuth said:


> Yeah, hopefully we will get to see Cain/JDS/Carwin fight each other if Brock remains on top.


One mistake I've always made in picking fights is not factoring in age properly. The younger fighters, especially pre-30 fighters, are improving faster. The Carwins and Lesnars are improving also, but not as rapidly. You're going to see bigger leaps of improvement by Valasquez and dos Santos.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Calminian said:


> Guess that rules out Fedor.


So Big Country can beat Lesnar right! I knew it!:thumb02:


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## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

Calminian said:


> One mistake I've always made in picking fights is not factoring in age properly. The younger fighters, especially pre-30 fighters, are improving faster. The Carwins and Lesnars are improving also, but not as rapidly. You're going to see bigger leaps of improvement by Valasquez and dos Santos.


Haha I was thinking that too when I started posting, but erased it because I couldn't really type what I wanted to say, even using 30 as the over/under age.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

diablo5597 said:


> You are so going down. I remember back when you thought big Nog was going to beat Cain too.:tongue01:


 
Hmm....:confused02:


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

I knew Brock was gonna beat Carwin, did not think he was gonna catch an ass beating in the process.Cain couldn't even finish Ben there is no way he's going to out wrestle Brock with the size difference, JDS is a better match up for Brock then Cain in my opinion.


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