# CUNG & Shamrock.....WOW



## ROCKBASS03 (Jul 27, 2006)

Awesome Fight!


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## infamous2117 (Feb 9, 2007)

cungs kicks were awesome in the 3rd. they say arm injury, i say bullshit frank knew he was going down and thats that. frank= quitter


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## Arlovski_Fan (Apr 25, 2007)

infamous2117 said:


> cungs kicks were awesome in the 3rd. they say arm injury, i say bullshit frank knew he was going down and thats that. frank= quitter


I doubt that. He took a lot of damage, shouldn't have stood not a great gameplan against a kick boxer.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

fight was awesome! those kicks had to hurt if they broke franks right arm. i just hope franks career doesn't turn out to be like his brother... ken.


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## aGenius (Feb 5, 2007)

Arlovski_Fan said:


> I doubt that. He took a lot of damage, shouldn't have stood not a great gameplan against a kick boxer.


Frank can barely stand he's in so much pain. I love it! Cung really pulled it through tonight, what a great fight.


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## infamous2117 (Feb 9, 2007)

i dont doubt that franks arm is fucked up, i just doubt his will in that fight, he saw that he couldnt intimidate a great fighter and crumbled. just my opinion.


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## Shamrock-Ortiz (Sep 22, 2006)

I think Franks arm is broke, you can see from the replay that he reacted straight away to that, its not as if he decided that after the round, you could see he was hurt.


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## ROCKBASS03 (Jul 27, 2006)

infamous2117 said:


> i dont doubt that franks arm is fucked up, i just doubt his will in that fight, he saw that he couldnt intimidate a great fighter and crumbled. just my opinion.


 Awesome opinion:confused03:

He couldn't intimidate him so he gave up? Nice try! He had Cung rocked quite a few times. You could see the difference as soon as his arm was hurt bad. It was a good fight no matter what lame excuses people will come up with as to why it went the way it did!:thumbsup:


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## infamous2117 (Feb 9, 2007)

ROCKBASS03 said:


> Awesome opinion:confused03:
> 
> He couldn't intimidate him so he gave up? Nice try! He had Cung rocked quite a few times. You could see the difference as soon as his arm was hurt bad. It was a good fight no matter what lame excuses people will come up with as to why it went the way it did!:thumbsup:



my point is everyone gives frank to much respect in his fights and therefore is intimidated, the result is a usually a loss, cung brought his A game and frank had nothing on him.


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## Flaren (Mar 30, 2008)

Shamrock-Ortiz said:


> I think Franks arm is broke, you can see from the replay that he reacted straight away to that, its not as if he decided that after the round, you could see he was hurt.


It was broken after that huge kick. At the end Frank said the bone on his right arm was snapped and you could tell he was in big pain.


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## ROCKBASS03 (Jul 27, 2006)

infamous2117 said:


> my point is everyone gives frank to much respect in his fights and therefore is intimidated, the result is a usually a loss, cung brought his A game and frank had nothing on him.


If you really think going 3 rounds was nothing, then sure. If he had nothing on him, Cung would have had a completely different interview after the fight. Shamrock stood in Cung's world and paid for it. He also dished a lot of his own back out too though. Overall good fight!


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

infamous2117 said:


> cungs kicks were awesome in the 3rd. they say arm injury, i say bullshit frank knew he was going down and thats that. frank= quitter


I looked at the end of this fight multiple times now and his arm is broken. 

watch his last punch Frank does in the fight. look at just a little higher then the wrist and you will see what I am talking about


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## Shamrock (Jul 9, 2007)

infamous2117 said:


> cungs kicks were awesome in the 3rd. they say arm injury, i say bullshit frank knew he was going down and thats that. frank= quitter


I'm not a huge fan of Frank but your post in absolute BS. I know it's your opinion, but he didn't quit. The man was in intense pain after having his arms broke by one of Le's kicks. Instead of downgrading Frank, let's give Cung Le the credit he deserves for one heck of a fight.


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## ROCKBASS03 (Jul 27, 2006)

M_D said:


> I looked at the end of this fight multiple times now and his arm is broken.
> 
> watch his last punch Frank does in the fight. look at just a little higher then the wrist and you will see what I am talking about


I saw that too! Some people are too quick to assume they know something is true without realyl paying any attention to what they are talking about:confused02:


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## masthrrck (Mar 5, 2007)

idk y ppl think he faked it and quit he almost finished him in the 3rd so y would he fake an arm injury


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## ManofAction (Oct 29, 2007)

Great fight, Cung Le is the man. Maybee in the future he can take out anderson silva. San shou is the bomb!


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## ROCKBASS03 (Jul 27, 2006)

masthrrck said:


> idk y ppl think he faked it and quit he almost finished him in the 3rd so y would he fake an arm injury


Anyone with a brain thinks the same way we do! That's why ending like this are funny. INTERNET warriors come out showing their full ignoranceraise01:


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## Flaren (Mar 30, 2008)

In the end though, these fighters came in the ring with respect for each other's powers/skills and ...fans?

The underdog came out the better fighter. If they really hated each other it could've ended way sooner.


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## HellRazor (Sep 24, 2006)

infamous2117 said:


> cungs kicks were awesome in the 3rd. they say arm injury, i say bullshit frank knew he was going down and thats that. frank= quitter


Bullshit is right. Watch Shamrock's face after the next to last head kick. He was wincing every time he had to use the right arm. And he only struck with it once after that, even with Le within range..


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## Kin (May 22, 2007)

infamous2117 said:


> i dont doubt that franks arm is fucked up, i just doubt his will in that fight, he saw that he couldnt intimidate a great fighter and crumbled. just my opinion.


If Frank really did get that discouraged, don't you think he'd try to shoot for the takedown? I mean, considering that he's got a HUGE advantage over there, you'd think he'd try that before deciding to fake an injury.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

frank shamrock would not quit unless he had to...his arm was clearly messed up badly

would have been nice to see a win with a normal stoppage instead of an injury tho....nonetheles...wow, that 3rd round was CRAAZZZZY....one of the best rounds of '08 thus far


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## sjbboy38 (Jan 8, 2007)

i was at the fight...loved it...frank lost though damn it


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## MetalMunkey (Oct 14, 2006)

That fight was SUPERBADASS!!! Like the name Voltron.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Frank Shamrock fought with a dumb strategy, plain and simple. I can't believe how loud I was yelling that out during the fight.


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## grnlt (Oct 15, 2006)

LETS JUST GET THIS STRAIGHT TO REMEMBER CUNG LE WOULD NOT BEAT ANDERSON SILVA......thats to whoever posted that


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## KO Power (Apr 5, 2007)

Great fight, but anyone who thinks Frank was faking it is absolutely out of their minds. He almost finished Cung in the third, why would he fake an injury. I actually think if the injury didnt happen Frank would have stopped Cung in the next round. I am still not sold on Cung though. Yes he did beat Frank who is a legend in the sport, but past his prime and too banged up to shoot in for a takedown cuz of knee problems. Maybe there will be a rematch who knows, or maybe Cung vs Lawler.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

That was a weird fight, I can't believe how well Shamrock did in the standup, I didn't think he would really keep it on the feet the whole time.
I also think the people saying "Frank knew he was gonna lose, so he quit." 
Yes, Frank finally made some ground in that fight, almost KTFO his opponent, and then thought "Alas, almost finishing proves I cannot finish him! I must quit!" Is that what happened?


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## Negative1 (Feb 4, 2007)

That was a fucken awesome fight!! I wish I could have watched it live. I've never seen that type of kick/backfist combo before.

The broken arm theroy, I believe its legit and I can't believe Frank took that final swing with his right arm before the buzzer rang.

Awesome fight, mad respect for both fighters.


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## 70seven (Mar 5, 2007)

Stop saying Frank quit, the arm injury was real. A "Legend" like Franck Shamrock would never give up his belt. In the 3rd round the announcers even said his right amr was red and started to swell up. In the post fight interview you could see a fracture in the bone, and a long one, I'll try and post a screen cap.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

No reason to believe Frank's arm wasn't broken, he blocked a lot of hard kicks (and ate a lot too). Frank also had Le in trouble in the 3rd so no reason to throw in the towel without a genuine injury. 

However....Frank can be criticized for standing with Le. He made no attempt at all to take it to the ground where he has to know he is going to win the fight. I guess he had one sort-of-takedown attempt in round one when he had Le turned around but I have to believe that if Shamrock really wanted to take him down that he could have at that point.

Frank did much better than I expected standing up so he really impressed me there but choosing to stand a trade with Le is like choosing to lose the fight. I keep hearing that Frank's knees are bad, is it possible they are so bad he can't shoot anymore? If so he needs to retire. 

Very entertaining fight though, both guys sure as hell showed they have a chin.


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## GaryShaw_Sucks (Mar 30, 2008)

*Frank the heartless*

Ok i'm goin to say it....Frank sucks and yes Cung has great stand up but if he was fighting a class A fighter those high kicks he was throwing wouldn't have done him any good. Any middle weight with a good takedown would have had Cung on the ground in 2 sec. Yeah Yeah Frank wanted to stand with him but he tried to take him down but Frank's takedowns suck....to old school cause he dont train with anyone better than him.

Oh no he broke his arm in the fight from a kick....so did Randy Couture, after Frank Mir broke his arm Tim still wanted to fight, Joe stevenson broke his jaw and still fought, i've heard of plenty of fighters with broke hands that just keep on goin.....they have heart, they are the real deal. Frank looked like a damn moron makin all them faces to show he was in pain. He knew he was goin to be knocked out so he quit pure and simple. FRANK IS NO LEGEND OR MMA SUPERSTAR...hes nothing more than a B level fighter that will never step into the cage with someone with real talent.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

GaryShaw_Sucks said:


> Ok i'm goin to say it....Frank sucks and yes Cung has great stand up but if he was fighting a class A fighter those high kicks he was throwing wouldn't have done him any good. Any middle weight with a good takedown would have had Cung on the ground in 2 sec. Yeah Yeah Frank wanted to stand with him but he tried to take him down but Frank's takedowns suck....to old school cause he dont train with anyone better than him.
> 
> Oh no he broke his arm in the fight from a kick....so did Randy Couture, after Frank Mir broke his arm Tim still wanted to fight, Joe stevenson broke his jaw and still fought, i've heard of plenty of fighters with broke hands that just keep on goin.....they have heart, they are the real deal. Frank looked like a damn moron makin all them faces to show he was in pain. He knew he was goin to be knocked out so he quit pure and simple. FRANK IS NO LEGEND OR MMA SUPERSTAR...hes nothing more than a B level fighter that will never step into the cage with someone with real talent.



It depends on what kind of break it is in the arm. Randy probably had a non displaced fracture which is something that is painful but you can continue to use it if you really want to. I broke my wrist playing hockey and played 4 more games over the next two weeks with it (and had 10 points in those 4 games, ty). It was a non displaced fracture. I broke a rib a couple months ago (hockey again) and again played 3 more games before I realized the pain wasn't getting any better and went to the doctor and found out about the break, non displaced fracture again. 

That doesn't mean I'm a super tough guy, those are the types of fracture you can deal with. If Shamrocks fracture was a displaced fracture that is MUCH more painful and it is very unlikely that anyone is going to fight through that. 

As for Frank's takedowns, I don't think he actually tried to take Le down, I think that he wanted to stand with Le. If so then that is an incredibly bad game plan on Frank's part and choosing a good strategy is part of MMA so that reflects badly on him as a fighter but not as badly as you make it out in your post.


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## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

GaryShaw_Sucks said:


> Ok i'm goin to say it....Frank sucks and yes Cung has great stand up but if he was fighting a class A fighter those high kicks he was throwing wouldn't have done him any good. Any middle weight with a good takedown would have had Cung on the ground in 2 sec. Yeah Yeah Frank wanted to stand with him but he tried to take him down but Frank's takedowns suck....to old school cause he dont train with anyone better than him.
> 
> Oh no he broke his arm in the fight from a kick....so did Randy Couture, after Frank Mir broke his arm Tim still wanted to fight, Joe stevenson broke his jaw and still fought, i've heard of plenty of fighters with broke hands that just keep on goin.....they have heart, they are the real deal. Frank looked like a damn moron makin all them faces to show he was in pain. He knew he was goin to be knocked out so he quit pure and simple. FRANK IS NO LEGEND OR MMA SUPERSTAR...hes nothing more than a B level fighter that will never step into the cage with someone with real talent.


This is an outrage! Damone will soon be in to kick your ass!

Alos, I believe Shamrock suffered from a bad gameplan as he entered the fight (also I heard something about a torn ACL preventing him from doing awesome double legs, but let that remain a speculation).


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Clearly Cung is a superior striker. I would have liked to see Shamrock utilise his ground game more.

Shamrock was rocked HARD at the end of the 3rd. I think it was 70% the arm, 30% he'd had enough.


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## hammerfist (Oct 15, 2006)

I am glad Le finished him. frank has no business acting like a jackass, taunting Le. that is the kind of crap that will ruin this sport. And he surely should not be doing it when he cannot back it up. Frank absolutely did try to take him down twice, once he had his back and still did not get him down. the second time he did get him down but could not keep him there. Frank understimated Le's strength and quickness. le was classy in victory in stark contrast to Frank before ad during the fight. getting your butt wallopped is a hubling experience but you know if he won that fight he would have been classless. 

i do think he broke his arm, he was a friggin human punching/kicking bag! frank had a few good shots and that is really it. He had Le hurt once but it was never serious otherwise le schooled him. Frank just is not what he used ot be and how we can expect him to be? how many guys are off that long and come back and dominate? we have to be reasonable here. He is a tough SOB and took many shots and gave a few of his own but he is not in the same class with le at this stage in his career. 

Le, while impressive, would not lasta minute with Anderson silva. Silva is simply the most dangerous man in MMA. Le would do well against many UFC guys except silva, hendo and franklin but he has to get more power on his punches although i have to say his kicks are nasty and i think he intentionally takes a bit of off the strikes for greater accuracy - he plays it smart. 

Congrats to cung. i was not surprised and am glad to see the more classy mixed martial artist won. All that talking Frank did and to see him beat up was karma. hats off to le!


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## MMILITIA2006 (Nov 19, 2006)

Frank should have been listening instead of talking.Guys that talk that much smack inside the ring deserve what they get.Good on him.Plain and simple.


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## Ebc_Kyle (Sep 24, 2006)

I loved the fight. It's a shame about Frank's arm. Cung Le came in there and handle his business, either had a great gameplan, or Frank had a bad one (I doubt).


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## khanh007 (Jan 9, 2007)

M_D said:


> I looked at the end of this fight multiple times now and his arm is broken.
> 
> watch his last punch Frank does in the fight. look at just a little higher then the wrist and you will see what I am talking about


It's broken.... @ 17:57 

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevanc...9i0_frank-shamrock-vs-cung-le-strikefor_sport


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## sjbboy38 (Jan 8, 2007)

GaryShaw_Sucks said:


> Ok i'm goin to say it....Frank sucks and yes Cung has great stand up but if he was fighting a class A fighter those high kicks he was throwing wouldn't have done him any good. Any middle weight with a good takedown would have had Cung on the ground in 2 sec. Yeah Yeah Frank wanted to stand with him but he tried to take him down but Frank's takedowns suck....to old school cause he dont train with anyone better than him.
> 
> Oh no he broke his arm in the fight from a kick....so did Randy Couture, after Frank Mir broke his arm Tim still wanted to fight, Joe stevenson broke his jaw and still fought, i've heard of plenty of fighters with broke hands that just keep on goin.....they have heart, they are the real deal. Frank looked like a damn moron makin all them faces to show he was in pain. He knew he was goin to be knocked out so he quit pure and simple. FRANK IS NO LEGEND OR MMA SUPERSTAR...hes nothing more than a B level fighter that will never step into the cage with someone with real talent.


ok im going to say it....you're an idiot...stop acting too good for a great fight...i bet if this fight took place in the UFC you'd be kissing ass...take out what u stuck up your ass


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## thickma (Aug 27, 2006)

That was perhaps the best fight in MMA history! Better than Forrest vs. Stephan Bonnar. I loved the dialogue between the two combatants -- like when Frank invited Cung Le to the ground, Le shook his head "no," and then Cung Le wagged his finger at Frank when he knocked Frank's mouthpiece out with a shin kick to the side of Frank's head. It added some comic relief... and drama. Cung Le wasn't shaken by Frank's taunting. I agree with many posts that Frank's game plan was wrong; his ego got in the way thinking he could out-strike a great striker. 

I don't think Frank just quit because he knew he was losing. I considered it at first but why would Frank do that? Frank had Le in real trouble at the end of round 3 but Le fought through it and delivered that awesome combination and another great shin kick to Frank's head. 

Frank's ego wouldn't allow him to give his belt away, so Cung Le had to take it... and he did.


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## Redrum (Jan 30, 2008)

the impression i had of this fight after viewing it was that it was perhaps the greatest mma fight i had ever seen. maybe that's going too far, so i'll say it's the best one i've seen in a while.

i think some people are riding frank much too hard with the taunting. he's a showman. he was not taunting cung in a mean or insulting fashon, he was merely doing what he always does. both fighters communicated with each other during the fight, i see no problems here. 

frank definatley executed the wrong gameplan. i am guessing if there is a rematch he will not try to stand with cung again. but you never know, frank might think well i couldn't beat him at his own game last time, but i will this time.

with regard to the arm injury, i had no problem with him not answering the call of round four. the was obvious and clear that the man was in incredible pain. he said he heard his bones clicking. this indicates that he at least thought it was a dislocated fracture. i take nothing away from frank for anything that happened, except perhaps chosing that gameplan.

as far as cung lee goes, this man is extremely impressive. congratualtions on your championship, sir. i hope he reigns for a long time. the only thing i hope he does at this point is fortify his ground skills, because someone is going to test them soon.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Nothing against Le. He fought a great fight. But why oh why did Frank Shamrock, the best game plan master this side of Randy Couture, go out and bang for three rounds? He's a ground master, for god's sake! He probably would have submitted Cung Le in the first or second round if he tried! 

I don't get it. Pride goeth before the fall, I guess.

Anyway, as far as Shamrock being a quitter goes, that's just nonsense. There are a lot of other reasons not to like Frank Shamrock, so I don't know why you have to make up one like that. 

He's never been a quitter and I don't know why he'd become one now.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

ROCKBASS03 said:


> If you really think going 3 rounds was nothing, then sure. If he had nothing on him, Cung would have had a completely different interview after the fight. Shamrock stood in Cung's world and paid for it. He also dished a lot of his own back out too though. Overall good fight!


You know what though Frank is a goon a less talented fighter than most the UFC fighters in his weight class. Watch his last fight with grace and You'll see the guys trash. 

I cant enplane why people like him so much, I hate the guy.


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## Hawkeye6287 (Mar 25, 2008)

Just watched the fight, and was pretty disappointed actually, certainly not the "greatest fight in mma history". The first two rounds were pretty much of a joke, just a glorified sparring session, no one following up any decent shots and letting the other one recover. Frank really hasnt progressed since his UFC days and I think had he been fighting a better fighter he would have been out cold before the first round was over. All credit to Cung lee, but can't see him getting away with that many shots against a more well rounded fighter. Most of his kicks are just begging for the take down. Frank hasnt taken anyone down properly in years sohe was free to throw, even though he landed numerous clean shots Frank was still standing so I;ve got to think there was not a whole lot of power behind them. Would be interested to see Cung fight someone good, I think a Lindland, Henderson or even Franklin would be too much for him on last nights showing and Anderson Silva would kill him, but then again he seems to be doing that to everyone lately.


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## GaryShaw_Sucks (Mar 30, 2008)

slapshot said:


> You know what though Frank is a goon a less talented fighter than most the UFC fighters in his weight class. Watch his last fight with grace and You'll see the guys trash.
> 
> I cant enplane why people like him so much, I hate the guy.


YES! he was lossin the fight with gracie and wussed out. gracie was runnin a clinc on him, he didnt know what to do. even the chock he got on Phil was sloppy and old school. you use the over-hand lock, its harder to get apart, dont use your fingers to lock it. its a basic thing to do and he messed it up haha


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## GaryShaw_Sucks (Mar 30, 2008)

sjbboy38 said:


> ok im going to say it....you're an idiot...stop acting too good for a great fight...i bet if this fight took place in the UFC you'd be kissing ass...take out what u stuck up your ass


No, ive seen plenty of bad fights in the UFC. like the Bisping/Hammel fight..that was jaked up. Just think Frank has no place in the MMA world. He makes the sport look bad and with Gray Shaw leadin the way to run MMA right into the ground like boxing. Frank and Noons are their poster boys for it haha


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## Spit206Fire (Jul 17, 2006)

I don't think Renzo was running a clinic on frank what so ever.

I'm not a huge frank shamrock fan what so ever, but i think frank was dominating him on the feet. And wasn't looking to take Renzo down instead he was getting taken down at will. 

I was pretty disapointed with the fight personally. I thought we would finally see Cungs ground game. Instead we got Liddel/Ortiz 1 and saw the better striker win as usual. Not to say frank didn't give it his all or even put up a good fight. He Did. But i think a better fight for him would have been shooting in on him when he is wounded and submited him or pounding him out. 

People who make this promises like "im going to stand with him"; notice how they almost never win.


Oh ya and the announcers made me want to ******* shoot myself. Therefor i watched it on Mute.


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## nathan_e (Mar 30, 2008)

That was prolly the most uninspiring fight compared to the potential. I do believe Frank had his arm broken. I don't think he would bow out just because he was getting his ass handed to him. Quattros called it best when he said it looked like a sparring match. It did all the way up till the leg sweep. Frank had a bad strategy going in and deserved to loose. You fight to your strengths, not your oponets. If Frank had fought his fight and lost, then that would have been a great fight. Cung Le still hasn't been tested in MMA. The whole fight just left me dissapointed.


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## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

Hawkeye6287 said:


> Just watched the fight, and was pretty disappointed actually, certainly not the "greatest fight in mma history". The first two rounds were pretty much of a joke, just a glorified sparring session, no one following up any decent shots and letting the other one recover. Frank really hasnt progressed since his UFC days and I think had he been fighting a better fighter he would have been out cold before the first round was over. All credit to Cung lee, but can't see him getting away with that many shots against a more well rounded fighter. Most of his kicks are just begging for the take down. Frank hasnt taken anyone down properly in years sohe was free to throw, even though he landed numerous clean shots Frank was still standing so I;ve got to think there was not a whole lot of power behind them. Would be interested to see Cung fight someone good, I think a Lindland, Henderson or even Franklin would be too much for him on last nights showing and Anderson Silva would kill him, but then again he seems to be doing that to everyone lately.


why does everyone try to discredit Cung Le? before this fight everyone was saying he hasn't fought anyone good, and shamrock would be his first real test. Well he clearly owned Shamrock. He needs to come to the UFC and work some other MW's to get some respect. I don't think he would beat Anderson, but he is DEFINITELY a contender.


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## burton_o6 (Oct 30, 2007)

I couln't stop yelling at both guys. For one, coming into that fight, I was telling my friend that Cung better not try that spinning back kick crap and it almost cost him. And another Frank needed to take him down. At one point it looked like he was setting Cung up for the take down, but never got the chance.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

I was really surprised when Frank rocked him. I thought the coolest thing in that fight was when Cung Le tried the spinning-back kick and Frank ducked under it while throwing a punch into Cung's face with his left hand. 

That was some Matrix shit, right thurr...


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## burton_o6 (Oct 30, 2007)

Was that the one in the first round? Or maybe I'm thinking of the spinning back kick. Also when Cung caught his right leg and swept the left, I was like.."I bet Frank is pissed".


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## matarva (Jul 1, 2006)

*Lucky*

That was just a lucky arm breakage for Cung Lee!


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## burton_o6 (Oct 30, 2007)

matarva said:


> That was just a lucky arm breakage for Cung Lee!


Yea...All thoughs kicks that he fired off that landed on the Arm/Head were complete luck.:confused03:


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## Redrum (Jan 30, 2008)

matarva said:


> That was just a lucky arm breakage for Cung Lee!


yeah...huh? :confused05:


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## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

matarva said:


> That was just a lucky arm breakage for Cung Lee!


yeah...all of those kicks he landed were lucky too. Le completely owned him.


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## Flaren (Mar 30, 2008)

Let's not forget the time Cung caught Frank's kick and sweeped him down. That was so luck!


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## e-thug (Jan 18, 2007)

Well it finally appears that Frank's showmanship finally caught up with him hear. I dont feel sorry for Frank whatsoever, he could've just swallowed his pride, took it to the ground and more than likely submitted him.

But what comes out of it?? a rematch? I wouldnt mind watching these 2 go at it again...it was really an entertaining fight.


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## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

why do people underestimate Le's ground-game so much? Everyone says that if shamrock would have taken him down he would have easily won. Le has a background in wrestling and jujitsu. He did great in the world shodokan tournament.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

My Frankie list, life's not fair, now I know how jdun11 felt when his Shogun got choked out by Forrest.

I haven't caught the fight yet, but from the looks of it, it was a great standpup fight. Still, don't know if I want to see Frank Shamrock lose.


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## cabby (Sep 15, 2006)

Damone said:


> My Frankie list, life's not fair, now I know how jdun11 felt when his Shogun got choked out by Forrest.
> 
> I haven't caught the fight yet, but from the looks of it, it was a great standpup fight. Still, don't know if I want to see Frank Shamrock lose.


Yeah I've downloaded but haven't watched it yet. Sucks about the arm breakage. And I know how jdun felt, when Shogun lost I held onto his autograph and cried


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## Suvaco (Mar 31, 2007)

The outcome of this fight is funny for a couple reasons. For one, I was made to look like an idiot, as I refused to even give Cung a chance. Secondly, now that Cung beat Frank, who had a shitty gameplan, his fans think he can fight Anderson Silva. I actually want that fight to happen, just to see the responses after Anderson puts Cung in a coma.


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## traf_quake (Jan 17, 2007)

auggggghh framk why do you have to be a douche

take him to the ground...suck up your pride and sub him....god dammit


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## looney liam (Jun 22, 2007)

just saw the fight, frank got a kickboxing lesson to remember that night.

did anyone else notice that cung had a great oppurtunity to finish frank in the second round? cung rocked frank with a combination, frank stepped back and taunted (acting like he wasn't fazed by it), instead of taking advantage and finishing the fight cung just touched gloves and let frank recover.

also, those commentators were absolutely awful. when the fight ended they didn't even question why the fight was stopped, i know for a fact joe rogan would have been like "why doesn't frank want to continue". i just can't stand their blatant ass kissing of the fighters as well. goldberg had about 5 lines during the whole fight, did they just hire him for the star power or what?


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## Merforga (Jan 2, 2007)

vandalian said:


> Nothing against Le. He fought a great fight. But why oh why did Frank Shamrock, the best game plan master this side of Randy Couture, go out and bang for three rounds? He's a ground master, for god's sake! He probably would have submitted Cung Le in the first or second round if he tried!
> 
> I don't get it. Pride goeth before the fall, I guess.


andy wang vs brandon melendez


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## ROCKBASS03 (Jul 27, 2006)

enceledus said:


> yeah...all of those kicks he landed were lucky too. Le completely owned him.


Here's another person using the ignorant term OWNED:confused03:

If Cung owned him as you say, why did it go 3 rounds? Why did Shamrock rock Cung several times? If he was truly owned, Cung would have ended it in the first round and have had no damage inflicted on him. Cung might still have won, but he won because of a blocked kick that broke a bone, not a knockout, or flurry of punches. People are quick to say someone was OWNED, but this is clearly not a case of Shamrock being owned.

I didn't realize this thread would bring out so many ignorant comments.:confused02: Too bad we didn't get to see round 4. One of them would have been knocked out I am sure


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## cabby (Sep 15, 2006)

Wawaweewa said:


> I was made to look like an idiot, as I refused to even give Cung a chance


Same here, the outcome shocked the hell outta' me. I'm glad there was no vBookie for that one hah


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## TKOSPIKE (Jul 7, 2006)

ROCKBASS03 said:


> Here's another person using the ignorant term OWNED:confused03:
> 
> If Cung owned him as you say, why did it go 3 rounds? Why did Shamrock rock Cung several times? If he was truly owned, Cung would have ended it in the first round and have had no damage inflicted on him. Cung might still have won, but he won because of a blocked kick that broke a bone, not a knockout, or flurry of punches. People are quick to say someone was OWNED, but this is clearly not a case of Shamrock being owned.
> 
> I didn't realize this thread would bring out so many ignorant comments.:confused02: Too bad we didn't get to see round 4. One of them would have been knocked out I am sure



fully agree:thumbsup: wow u took the words right out of my fingers before they hit the keyboard lol btw frank will have his revenge dont worry:thumb02:


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## daitrong (May 27, 2007)

What's with all the Cung le haters? Frank is superior on the ground and if it went there he would have a good chance of winning. Cung LE is superior in stand up, and well we all know what happened there. So who's the better fighter? Hard to say, it's whoever that can keep the fight where he's most comfortable. Cung did an incredible job keeping Frank a distance and making frank play to his tempo. 

Give Cung le credit where credit is due, Frank said he didn't believe Cung's could trade blows with him and Cung proved him wrong.


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

ROCKBASS03 said:


> Here's another person using the ignorant term OWNED:confused03:
> 
> If Cung owned him as you say, why did it go 3 rounds? Why did Shamrock rock Cung several times? If he was truly owned, Cung would have ended it in the first round and have had no damage inflicted on him. Cung might still have won, but he won because of a blocked kick that broke a bone, not a knockout, or flurry of punches. People are quick to say someone was OWNED, but this is clearly not a case of Shamrock being owned.
> 
> I didn't realize this thread would bring out so many ignorant comments.:confused02: Too bad we didn't get to see round 4. One of them would have been knocked out I am sure


Well, Le definitely didn't own but he was winning even up to the point of the injury. You are doing the opposite of what the other guy was doing by downplaying Le's victory because he won by breaking Frank's wrist.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Watched the fight.

Frankie, Frankie, Frankie, Frankie, when you are getting kicked repeatedly and getting cracked with punches, you might want to take the fight to the ground. Shoot, pull guard, something, anything.

Entertaining, albeit sad fight. Nice showing from Le.


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## Redrum (Jan 30, 2008)

i definatley don't think frank got "owned". i think cung definatley took the first, but during the second i really thought frank was turning the tide just a bit, but i still give round 2 to cung as well. the third round was pretty much all cung. however, frank clearly landed blows that hurt cung during this match. he certainly held his own fighting in cung's element until it finally cost him dearly. i believe frank would have been better served fighting to his own strengths rather than to cung's.


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## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

I'm glad that Cung showed to frank that he is not PERFECT.
He can't outstrike the best strikers, submit jiu-jitsu specialists, outwrestle the best wrestlers.

He is extremely well rounded, I knew he could stand with Cung, but I also knew that if he stood the whole fight, he would lose! A terrible gameplan, and I'm glad Cung taught him some humility. 

Next time he will talk less and work more hopefully.


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## ToeZup (Jan 7, 2008)

Wow, Cung Le coming through with the win. What a great gif from that fight.


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## cabby (Sep 15, 2006)

ToeZup said:


> Wow, Cung Le coming through with the win. What a great gif from that fight.


o man...........that makes franky look so bad............


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## ToeZup (Jan 7, 2008)

Yeah it does. Frank on his back ToeZup.....sorry.

One thing I noticed though. Cung Le should learn to jump on his opponent after a takedown like that, not walk away. He will learn mma more and more as he goes along and when he gets comfy with the rules, it could be bad for other mma fighters.


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## Mc19 (Jul 6, 2006)

Wawaweewa said:


> his fans think he can fight Anderson Silva. I actually want that fight to happen, just to see the responses after Anderson puts Cung in a coma.


 Not true at all man. I'm a big fan of Cung and i think he would lose by TKO... however i don't believe that he would get taken to the ground and submitted in one minute like all the Cung haters think.


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## sworddemon (Feb 4, 2007)

I can't see how anyone can dislike Cung Le. The guy is pure class (see the post-fight conference video in another thread) and exciting as hell to watch. Who else in MMA throws crescent kicks and spinning heel kicks? I don't know why we can't just enjoy watching the guy fight without debating his ground game or yapping about if he could beat Anderson Silva. Nobody in MMA is perfect...but ferchristsakes...let's just enjoy the fights.


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## Redrum (Jan 30, 2008)

sworddemon said:


> I can't see how anyone can dislike Cung Le. The guy is pure class (see the post-fight conference video in another thread) and exciting as hell to watch. Who else in MMA throws crescent kicks and spinning heel kicks? I don't know why we can't just enjoy watching the guy fight without debating his ground game or yapping about if he could beat Anderson Silva. Nobody in MMA is perfect...but ferchristsakes...let's just enjoy the fights.


agreed wholeheartedly!


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## Tommy08 (Feb 2, 2007)

I just watched the fight twice, with some replays.

I had it 1-1 after round 2. Round 3 Frank was doing his typical return from nowhere stunt and dominating the standup.

I had round 1 for Shamrock, even though blows were about equal shamrock had more aggression, backed LE into the cage twice (Ocatgon control) and I think he edged out the win for that round.

Cung Le did break Shamrocks arm- which is why Le won. No arguments there. But Le's standup was never way ahead of Frank's game, and Frank looked solid against a very skilled striker. The power in Cung's kicks is obviously superior and that is what won him the match.


I honestly don't know why Shamrock did not shoot in. In round one Le was working a good escape, but I also think Shamrock may have been able to hold on when he had Cung's back. Shamrock's standup was actually getting better in round 3 as Cung maybe even slowed down. Frank as much threw this match away as Cung won it.

Overall a great macthup though and a great fight. I don't wnat to seem like I'm taking away anything from either of them, because they definitely made it a fight. There needs to be a rematch.

The announcers need to be shot, all those ignorant comments were horrible and annoying.


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## TKOSPIKE (Jul 7, 2006)

Tommy08 said:


> I just watched the fight twice, with some replays.
> 
> I had it 1-1 after round 2. Round 3 Frank was doing his typical return from nowhere stunt and dominating the standup.
> 
> ...


yes , someone besides me that understands, well a couple other pple on here understands too but u know what i mean, i fully agree with what u said , damn u cung le's kicks! if franky hadnt broken his arm he would have won that fight, and it wouldnt have been a decision win either:thumb02:


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## Flaren (Mar 30, 2008)

Cung was way ahead of Frank in the stand up game. He was well conditioned in all 3 rounds. Except in the 3rd round Frank landed 1 good punch to Cung's mouth but still Cung recovered from it fast. Throughout the entire fight, Cung did the most damage in kicks to the head & face, neck, abdomen, ribs and etc. Frank was already bleeding like in the first/second round...

If Frank didn't throw in the towel after receiving that heavy kick to the face...Frank might of got knocked out in the 4th round. C'mon we all saw Frank kneeling down...he had enough. 

Apparently brushing off Cung le's kicks don't work since he kicks right through you.


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## MADDSNIPER (Dec 28, 2006)

he was kneeling down because his arm was broke and he was in alot of pain. I honestly believe if his arm hadnt got broke he would have finished of Le in the 4th or the 5th.


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## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

MADDSNIPER said:


> he was kneeling down because his arm was broke and he was in alot of pain. I honestly believe if his arm hadnt got broke he would have finished of Le in the 4th or the 5th.


Maybe if he took the fight to the ground. If he would remain standing, he would've got KOed.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Freelancer said:


> Maybe if he took the fight to the ground. If he would remain standing, he would've got KOed.


Cung never loked close to where Frank was in terms of finishing the fight.

And Frank landed one punch eh? Lol.


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## ShaolinMilk (Feb 3, 2008)

sigh... a lot of people makes me laugh in here.

should've, would've, could've... The fact is that, Cung Le broke Shamrock's arm and that is saying a lot. I seriously think that Shamrock was hurt by those kicks and he was intimidated by it so he wasn't able to take it to the ground. Meh, just my opinion. A rematch should be made in the future, for sure.


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## daitrong (May 27, 2007)

ShaolinMilk said:


> sigh... a lot of people makes me laugh in here.
> 
> should've, would've, could've... The fact is that, Cung Le broke Shamrock's arm and that is saying a lot. I seriously think that Shamrock was hurt by those kicks and he was intimidated by it so he wasn't able to take it to the ground. Meh, just my opinion. A rematch should be made in the future, for sure.


I agree, I'm sure Frank doesn't need to make excuses for the fight, all his fans are doing it for him. lol According to Frank (in the interview below) he believes his style of fighting has evolved into stand up. That's where he's most confident. He says he hasn't attempted to take anyone down in the past 10 years and don't know why everyone keeps thinking that's where he's going to take the fight. He believes his stand up has improved leaps and bounds since his sparring days with le and wants to prove it during their fight. Obviously he has a long way to go to get to cung's level. 

ANd in response to previous post of Frank coming close to finishing the fight in the 3rd round. If Frank was closed to finishing the fight and had Cung really hurt, i doubt cung could've thrown such a power kick to snap Frank's arm if he was really seriously hurt. He recovered quickly and frank coudln't finish cung. If you watch all of cung's MMA fights, you'll see that he doesn't have one hit knock out power. He chops away at his opponent until they can no longer continue. 


http://youtube.com/watch?v=BP-H_2seKaY
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xI-qSLwBK90


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## daitrong (May 27, 2007)

repost


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Cung couldn't have thrown a kick to break Franks arm if he was hurt? Lol.....what was that UFC fight where one guy cgot the shit beaten out of him and almost KO'd with a body shot before throwing one Hail mary haymaker anf knocking his opponent out in the final seconds of the fight? Some one help me out here.

I don't see all the people making excuses for Frank.


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## Tommy08 (Feb 2, 2007)

daitrong said:


> I agree, I'm sure Frank doesn't need to make excuses for the fight, all his fans are doing it for him.
> 
> Obviously he has a long way to go to get to cung's level.
> 
> He embarrassed frank in the stand up game and proved a lot of doubters wrong.


I don't see the fans making excuses here for Frank, just maybe soem excessive Le bandwagon jumping.

The fight went three rounds with Frank doing well in the standup. At no time did Cung "embarrass" Frank. Seriously don't see how anyone could come to that conclusion. A 10 second fight with knockout- embarrasing. Taking a Rocky like betaing without being able to touch your opponent and then losing - embarrasing. 

Going toe to toe with an accomplished striker for 3 rounds and having a split score on scorecards, and the observation of many- is hardly an embarrasment. Frank fought at Cung's level. 

He had Cung beat for round 3- you can't deny that without being extremely subjective. That round was Frank,and I think round 1 as well.

And I don't see any "Frank" fans ever doubting Cung Le's standup, on the contrary. You just make it sound like Le walked through him like paper which was never the case.

That being said I am not taking away from Le's win. On the contrary- he was very technical and skilled and is legit. He did throw the kick that broke Frank's arm and that won him the match. But you do realize that just because someone loses- does not mean they suck? Are you a kimbo fan,btw?

Le will still have to prove his ground game- because it hasn't been on display yet. But that will come soon, or be clear over time.


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## jiml (Jan 15, 2008)

frank didnt win the 1st round.

Its debatable if he even one the 3rd


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## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

MADDSNIPER said:


> he was kneeling down because his arm was broke and he was in alot of pain. I honestly believe if his arm hadnt got broke he would have finished of Le in the 4th or the 5th.


seriously?? that logic will get you no where. Cung owned the whole damn fight. Saying IF Cung le hadn't broke shamrocks arm, Shamrock could have taken him down and won is no different than saying IF Serra hadn't ko'd St Pierre, GSP would have beat serra in the 2nd round, or IF Anderson hadn't landed that kick on henderson he wouldn't have subbed him out, and Henderson would have tko'd anderson in another round. SHOULDA WOULDA COULDA. Cung Le dominated, and won. He broke shamrocks arm for f*ck sake. And he broke his arm after about the 50th consecutive landed kick.


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## daitrong (May 27, 2007)

Tommy08 said:


> I don't see the fans making excuses here for Frank, just maybe soem excessive Le bandwagon jumping.
> 
> The fight went three rounds with Frank doing well in the standup. At no time did Cung "embarrass" Frank. Seriously don't see how anyone could come to that conclusion. A 10 second fight with knockout- embarrasing. Taking a Rocky like betaing without being able to touch your opponent and then losing - embarrasing.
> 
> ...


http://samcaplan.proelite.com/stuff/blog/104483/Shamrock_vs_Le_Post-Fight_Press_Conference_Notes
Judges' score card had Frank losing all three rounds. Frank was going to lose either way unless he somehow got a submission or knock out in the 4 or 5 round. which is highly un-likley with a broken arm. I see a lot of people making excuses for frank. Frank should of, could of, would of talk. 

ALso, i never said Frank sucks, in fact i through he was going to win. Frank is a very entertaining fighter. I thought Frank's stand up was pretty good against baroni, but compared to Cung, he looked horrible. Frank talks a lot of s#it about cung, how cung's not ready for him and that his stand up isn't up to frank's level etc. Cung pretty much shut him up.


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## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

Tommy08 said:


> I don't see the fans making excuses here for Frank, just maybe soem excessive Le bandwagon jumping.
> 
> The fight went three rounds with Frank doing well in the standup. At no time did Cung "embarrass" Frank. Seriously don't see how anyone could come to that conclusion. A 10 second fight with knockout- embarrasing. Taking a Rocky like betaing without being able to touch your opponent and then losing - embarrasing.
> 
> Going toe to toe with an accomplished striker for 3 rounds and having a split score on scorecards, and the observation of many- is hardly an embarrasment. Frank fought at Cung's level.


seriously..... what crack were you smoking while watching this fight?:confused02:


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## Tommy08 (Feb 2, 2007)

enceledus said:


> seriously..... what crack were you smoking while watching this fight?:confused02:


Wow, what a well thought out post. Very constructive. Unlike you and your drugs I have actually seen many striking matches since the 80's. Points are arbitrary and subjective at times, at times they are not.




> Judges' score card had Frank losing all three rounds. Frank was going to lose either way unless he somehow got a submission or knock out in the 4 or 5 round.


Well, they are all split rounds so in the judge's eyes nothing was perfectly clear. I am not the only with the opinion that Shamrock won the first round and I'm just going to add one out of at least three online posts I've read:


LARRY'S SCORECARD: Great opening round with a lot of energy. Le had things in control early, but Shamrock did more as the round went on and I will go Shamrock 10-9. It was close.

LARRY'S SCORECARD: Another energetic round. I felt Le did more damage and was more aggressive, and he gets it 10-9, and even it up 19-19.

LARRY'S SCORECARD: Wow, what a round. Le was commanding, but Shamrock looked to have comeback there for a while but Le secures the round late and takes it 10-9, and has the advantage 29-28.

http://www.411mania.com/MMA/reports/72026

SO if the original article you posted is true, and the above observer and several others had it split- it just proves my point: It was a close match. I didn't think Shamrock had the whole thing won, or that Le didn't deserve the win (read my first post) But I think have very solid reason and evidence that it was not clear cut across the board with 10-8's for Le, which he would have gotten if he was really dominant.


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## sworddemon (Feb 4, 2007)

My god...does anyone around here actually watch a fight objectively instead of pointlessly nuthugging the fighter they want to win? Aside from a few really logical and level-headed posts, this is just 10 pages of tough guy bullshit. Cung Le won the fight...let's all say congrats and move on. :thumbsdown:


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## daitrong (May 27, 2007)

mannn, larry's a freakin editor for WWE. His score card isn't much difference from some other joe off the street scoring the fight. The only score card that matters is the offical score card from actual judges, judging the fight. 

According to the scoring obtained, Shamrock lost all three rounds. Round one was 30-27 Le; round two was 29-28 Le; and round three was 29-28 Le. 

Judge Richard Bertend scored the fight 10-9, 10-9, 9-10. Judge Cecil Peoples scored the fight 10-9, 10-9, 10-9. And judge Nelson “Doc” Hamilton scored the fight 10-9, 9-10, and 10-9.


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