# Independent World MMA Rankings: September, 2009



## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Well, the rankings are in, guys. The last couple of months, I've posted the entire piece in here, but this month I'm not going to do that. It's a lot of effort for me to hyperlink everything in the second time.

If you're curious about who's on the panel (and it's a helluva panel) and what the regulations are, you're welcome to check out the full version.

Anyway, here are the rankings:



IronMan @ MMAOpinion said:


> *Heavyweight Rankings (206 to 265 lbs.)
> 1. Fedor Emelianenko (30-1, 1 No Contest)
> 2. Brock Lesnar (4-1)
> 3. Frank Mir (12-4)
> ...


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Solid :thumbsup:

I just went through Sherdog and MMAweekly's latest rankings and they're nothing compared to these tbqh.

Only thing I'm not sure about is having Mir above Nog and Randy in the top 5 but these are all debatable I guess.

edit: no Josh Barnett?


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## Guy (Feb 17, 2008)

Solid list, but Franklin definitely deserves a spot in the rankings. I should have the #8 spot in the MW rankings instead of Lawler. 

The HW ranking is flawless though.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Xerxes said:


> Solid :thumbsup:
> 
> I just went through Sherdog and MMAweekly's latest rankings and they're nothing compared to these tbqh.
> 
> Only thing I'm not sure about is having Mir above Nog and Randy in the top 5 but these are all debatable I guess.


Mir beat Nog pretty badly. His only recent losses, as far as most of the panelists are concerned, is to Brock Lesnar, who's #2.

Couture has two recent losses, to Lesnar and Nogueira and, as a result, has to fall below Mir. Nogueira has the loss to Mir that cannot be erased by his performance against Couture.

MMAth does apply in a lot of rankings discussions when it comes to looking at the history of fighters. That's what puts Mir above Nog and Couture.



> edit: no Josh Barnett?


Yeah. If you go look at the guidelines, you'll see this:



> Disciplinary Suspensions: Fighters who are currently serving disciplinary suspensions, *or who have been denied a license for drug test or disciplinary reasons, are not eligible to be ranked.*


Barnett is ineligible, having been denied a license by NSAC back in July.



Guy said:


> Solid list, but Franklin definitely deserves a spot in the rankings. I should have the #8 spot in the MW rankings instead of Lawler.
> 
> The HW ranking is flawless though.


Franklin hasn't fought at middleweight since his fight with Lutter in April, 2008.

Because he has not fought in the division in the last twelve months, he's not eligible to be ranked at middleweight.

He is eligible to be ranked at lightheavyweight, but at this point it's hard to make an argument that he's a top ten guy, given that he's fought two guys who are ranked in that division and lost to both of them (Anderson and Henderson, though his fights with Anderson are not lightheavyweight fights).

He also recently lost to Vitor in a catchweight bout that counts toward his ranking in the lightheavyweight division. He's 2-2 in that weightclass, as far as the panel is concerned, with wins over Hamill and Wanderlei. So it's hard to make an argument that he's a top ten guy.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

Still the best list but it seems to over value recent fights compared to overall record. Daley top 10 WW? One win against a 8-10 ranked guy doesn't make up for consistently losing to good fighters like Daley has. Same for Rogers (not that he has losses but I want more than one win against a non drooling opponent before I put someone in the top 10, never mind top 5).


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Drogo said:


> Still the best list but it seems to over value recent fights compared to overall record. Daley top 10 WW? One win against a 8-10 ranked guy doesn't make up for consistently losing to good fighters like Daley has. Same for Rogers (not that he has losses but I want more than one win against a non drooling opponent before I put someone in the top 10, never mind top 5).


Daley has two losses in the last two years (which is not uncommon among these top ten guys) and ten wins. On that record are John Alessio and Kampmann. It's not like he hasn't fought top guys.

I don't put Daley in the top ten, but a lot of people do.

As for Rogers, I don't know how you can look at Rogers' career and say "he's not a top ten guy."

Rogers has knocked out everyone he's fought, including a top ten heavyweight. Carwin, who's similarly an undisputable top ten guy, has done the same thing, but hasn't beaten a top ten guy yet.

Both of those guys are definitely legitimate in their positions. Though I'll admit that in looking at the welterweight division I'm a little disappointed that Koscheck is ranked higher than Paulo Thiago.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Wait a minute, when did Keith Hackney fall of the list?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Im always a little confused how Jorge Santiago gets ranked so high fighting the caliber of opponents he has. Personally I find it very hard to believe he would be able to hang with any of the UFCès top 10 MWs.


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## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

joshua7789 said:


> Wait a minute, when did Keith Hackney fall of the list?


It's just universally assumed that he's #2, so they don't bother putting him up, in order to avoid being redundant.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

joshua7789 said:


> Wait a minute, when did Keith Hackney fall of the list?


I miss the giant killer. 



Toxic said:


> Im always a little confused how Jorge Santiago gets ranked so high fighting the caliber of opponents he has. Personally I find it very hard to believe he would be able to hang with any of the UFCès top 10 MWs.


I think he'd beat most of them pretty soundly. But I don't see him as better than Belfort or Maia.

Of course, Sonnen and Akiyama seem like easy wins for Jorge, in my opinion.

As for him making the top ten, the guy has won nine straight and finished all of his opponents. That's a helluva winning streak, especially given that seven fights have been in large organizations and most have been against respectable fighters.

I mean, he's gone through Semenov, Salmon, Horn and Prangley. All of those guys are UFC veterans, and Salmon is the only one who didn't post a win inside the Octagon.

Then there's Sasaki, Misaki and Nakamura, who are accomplished and highly respected Japanese veterans, Logan Clark (who's 1-0 in the UFC, and a pretty solid wrestler) and Bahadurzada, who's a great kickboxer and was a longtime up-and-comer in Holland.

So, he's a pretty respectable dude and a lot of guys see him as a top challenger, even if he's not fighting the UFC's opponents.

Admittedly, the thing that pissed me off almost as much as missing Fedor vs. Barnett was not getting to see Santiago tested against a guy as explosive as Belfort.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

See my issue with Santiago is he has fought solid opponents but in order to really become a top fighter at some point you have to fight great fighters and that is something I dont think he has done, they weren't scrubs just not great.


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## bOoRadley (Sep 22, 2009)

I stopped reading when I saw Brock Lesnar as the #2 Heaveyweight.

I can't wait for that clown to get his hick face smashed in when he faces a decent striker with some takedown defense.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

You're making the list with the assumption that _so-and-so_ can beat _so-and-so_. Why don't you make the list based on fact? For example, Rich Franklin has beaten Okami, and isn't even ranked.

I'll still never understand how Emelianenko can remain at the top of the HW's, when he hasn't even fought anyone worth mentioning in 2+ years. I would've dropped him completely.



bOoRadley said:


> I stopped reading when I saw Brock Lesnar as the #2 Heaveyweight.
> 
> I can't wait for that clown to get his hick face smashed in when he faces a decent striker with some takedown defense.


There is *no one* in the HW division that can stop Lesnar's take down.


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## bOoRadley (Sep 22, 2009)

UrbanBounca said:


> There is *no one* in the HW division that can stop Lesnar's take down.


Couture, who has no business fighting above light heavyweight, was able to stop a number of Lesnar's "legendary" take downs. 

The Brock hype is about to come to a screeching halt.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

bOoRadley said:


> Couture, who has no business fighting above light heavyweight, was able to stop a number of Lesnar's "legendary" take downs.
> 
> The Brock hype is about to come to a screeching halt.


Lesnar took Couture down, and beat him by TKO. :confused02:


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

bOoRadley said:


> Couture, who has no business fighting above light heavyweight, was able to stop a number of Lesnar's "legendary" take downs.
> 
> The Brock hype is about to come to a screeching halt.


Randy has tremendous wrestling but the minute Lesnar wanted to he just straight powered through Randy's TD defense and put him on his back. Lesnar has so much raw strength that mixed with his decent wrestling it makes his TD's almost impossible to avoid for to long.


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## bOoRadley (Sep 22, 2009)

UrbanBounca said:


> Lesnar took Couture down, and beat him by TKO. :confused02:


Thanks for the update but I'm well aware of the outcome of the fight. All I was saying was that Couture was able to avoid a number of Lesnar's take down attempts. This may be a novel idea but you might want to try taking the entire fight into consideration when discussing it later. I'm sure just remembering the highlights is easier, particularly for those with limited intelligence, but it makes for a much more interesting debate when you can recall more than who won and who lost.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

bOoRadley said:


> Thanks for the update but I'm well aware of the outcome of the fight. All I was saying was that Couture was able to avoid a number of Lesnar's take down attempts. This may be a novel idea but you might want to try taking the entire fight into consideration when discussing it later. I'm sure just remembering the highlights is easier, particularly for those with limited intelligence, but it makes for a much more interesting debate when you can recall more than who won and who lost.


What does the entire fight matter? You said Couture was able to defend Lesnar's take down, but ultimately, Couture lost the fight 'cause he *wasn't* able to defend the take down.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

bOoRadley said:


> Couture, who has no business fighting above light heavyweight, was able to stop a number of Lesnar's "legendary" take downs.
> 
> The Brock hype is about to come to a screeching halt.


Your point about the strength of Lesnar's takedowns has already been pretty well addressed as ridiculous.

But, really, Couture has no business fighting about lightheavyweight?

The guy came back at won a UFC heavyweight title. He's not that far removed from holding the belt and defending it successfully.

He might be better off at lightheavyweight, but he can fight wherever he damn well pleases, because he's a legitimate competitor in either of those weightclasses.

As for Toxic, Santiago has beaten competition similar to the guys Henderson was beating in Pride when he climbed into top five status.

Misaki and Nakamura were both solid marks. Bustmante, Gono, Chonan and so on, all are guys that qualify as good and lent credibility to Henderson, but none of whom were great.

There are more fighters I could list who have climbed to that position with wins over solid, but far from legendary, opposition, but Henderson seems like the best comparison.

Gray Maynard also falls in that category. So do Jake Shields and Yushin Okami and Shane Carwin and Alistair Overeem. The list goes on.

If Santiago was ranked #1, I'd agree with you, but he's a top five guy who's established his spot on the basis of beating, soundly, solid opposition with regularity.


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

I don't think Fedor should be number 1 considering his last fight was in January and he was actually loosing the fight.


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## Guy (Feb 17, 2008)

UrbanBounca said:


> I'll still never understand how Emelianenko can remain at the top of the HW's, when he hasn't even fought anyone worth mentioning in 2+ years. I would've dropped him completely.


I assume you're talking about Crocop.

Arlovski, Lindland (jumped weight classes, but nobody eevr complains about GSP beating BJ do they?), Sylvia, HMC (freakshow fight, but on paper it looked like there was no way Fedor was gonna win, plus HMC is decent. He'd beat alot of the UFC HW's), Mark Hunt (when he was top 10) and so on. Rogers is also top 10 and higher ranked than Carwin, who's in line for the UFC HW belt. If Rogers is a scrub, then so is Carwin.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

IronMan said:


> As for Toxic, Santiago has beaten competition similar to the guys Henderson was beating in Pride when he climbed into top five status.
> 
> Misaki and Nakamura were both solid marks. Bustmante, Gono, Chonan and so on, all are guys that qualify as good and lent credibility to Henderson, but none of whom were great.
> 
> ...


Heh, ratings are always six of one half a dozen of the other, my preffrence is that you cant really get higher that 7th or 8th without at least fighting some top guys.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Devil_Bingo said:


> I don't think Fedor should be number 1 considering his last fight was in January and he was actually loosing the fight.


How's DW's nuts taste? 




I like the rankings this year, I think the only complaint I have is that Mousasi is so far down the list. But since he just moved to LHW it makes sense. 

It'll be neat to see how Carwin vs Lesnar and Vitor vs Belfort shakes up the rankings, if at all.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

Guy said:


> I assume you're talking about Crocop.
> 
> Arlovski, Lindland (jumped weight classes, but nobody eevr complains about GSP beating BJ do they?), Sylvia, HMC (freakshow fight, but on paper it looked like there was no way Fedor was gonna win, plus HMC is decent. He'd beat alot of the UFC HW's), Mark Hunt (when he was top 10) and so on. Rogers is also top 10 and higher ranked than Carwin, who's in line for the UFC HW belt. If Rogers is a scrub, then so is Carwin.


I concede. I _was_ talking about Emelianenko, but you've made a good point.


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## Guy (Feb 17, 2008)

UrbanBounca said:


> I concede. I _was_ talking about Emelianenko, but you've made a good point.


I meant Crocop as in the "last opponent Fedor beat that's worth mentioning in 2+ years."


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> How's DW's nuts taste?


I'm guessing you haven't actually seen the fight otherwise you wouldn't of responded with that like :sarcastic12:


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Guy said:


> I assume you're talking about Crocop.
> 
> Arlovski, Lindland (jumped weight classes, but nobody eevr complains about GSP beating BJ do they?), Sylvia, HMC (freakshow fight, but on paper it looked like there was no way Fedor was gonna win, plus HMC is decent. He'd beat alot of the UFC HW's), Mark Hunt (when he was top 10) and so on. Rogers is also top 10 and higher ranked than Carwin, who's in line for the UFC HW belt. If Rogers is a scrub, then so is Carwin.


Not trying to attack your post but there is no defending the Lindland fight, yeah people dont complain about GSP beating BJ, they would complain if GSP was beating Urijah Faber.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Man, i have been a huge critic of Alistair Overreem and have constantly said that he doesnt belong in the top ten. After watching the K1 final sixteen this morning, that dude has changed my mind. I know it was kickboxing, but the dude showed some serious stand up skills on top of his huge mass and power. One of the main reasons i was awake until six this morning was because i was certain that Peter Aerts was gonna hand him his ass. Now im pretty well convinced that Alistair Overreem can hand pretty much any heavyweight in the world there ass in k1 or mma. Im sold on the dude and i think its only a matter of time before he reaches the top of the mma world.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Devil_Bingo said:


> I'm guessing you haven't actually seen the fight otherwise you wouldn't of responded with that like :sarcastic12:


The fight where Arlovski couldn't land a single solid blow? Where Fedor's shoulder-glances were so fast we have to watch it in slow-motion? Where he said in the pre-fight interview he'd test Arlovski's punching-speed, then test his chin?

It's the one where Fedor knocked Arlovski out clean in the first round right?


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

khoveraki said:


> \Where he said in the pre-fight interview he'd test Arlovski's punching-speed, then test his chin?


I chilled with both fighters' camps before that bout (Andrei's more than Fedor's, because some of Andrei's coaches are friends of fine).

Alexander Michkov, Fedor's striking coach, had some of the best lines I've ever heard. He kept referring to Freddie Roach as a high school girl. It was awesome.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

IronMan said:


> I chilled with both fighters' camps before that bout (Andrei's more than Fedor's, because some of Andrei's coaches are friends of fine).
> 
> Alexander Michkov, Fedor's striking coach, had some of the best lines I've ever heard. He kept referring to Freddie Roach as a high school girl. It was awesome.


That's great, I love how Fedor's camp jokes around. What I'd give to pull a prank on Mousasi with Fedor and his managers. Congrats on being so close to the teams, that's got to be nice.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

khoveraki said:


> That's great, I love how Fedor's camp jokes around. What I'd give to pull a prank on Mousasi with Fedor and his managers. Congrats on being so close to the teams, that's got to be nice.


They're great guys. Andrei's camp is actually more chill than Fedor's, and better at pranks. Andrei's big on sneaking up on people and scaring the sh*t ou of them. It's hard to be sneaky at 6'5, 250, but he's damn good at it.

Fedor's camp, it turns out, is big on card games. I don't know why that surprised me, but it did.

Most of the people in MMA are great guys. There are a few douchebags (most of them are journalists), and there are plenty of idiots. But most are pretty cool.

EDIT: This is one of the reasons why I try to avoid talking too much sh*t about people in the sport. Mostly it's because I know them and words get around. It's also because it's hard to dislike people that bye you drinks.


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## Mjr (Apr 22, 2007)

Devil_Bingo said:


> I'm guessing you haven't actually seen the fight otherwise you wouldn't of responded with that like :sarcastic12:


.....

He got knocked out in the first round. Yes Andrei was doing well in the exchanges but he got dropped. 

I don't think Fedor was "loosing" that fight.


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

Arlovski was winning in exchanges which means he was winning the fight. Fedor barely did anything in the fight. Then Arlovski did something stupid Fedor won like that. Fedor was loosing the fight. You need to get off the Fedor Bandwagon and actually think properly.


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## Boneleg (Sep 25, 2009)

Devil_Bingo said:


> Arlovski was winning in exchanges which means he was winning the fight. Fedor barely did anything in the fight. Then Arlovski did something stupid Fedor won like that. Fedor was loosing the fight. You need to get off the Fedor Bandwagon and actually think properly.


And you clearly need to have your eyes checked. Did you even read what the guy said? Arlovski barely even connected any of his punches, how does that make him "winning in exchanges"? Fedor was probing Arlovski, working out his rythm, reach and speed. Many fighters actually do this, for example A Silva who rarely engages in the first couple of minutes.


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

And who said we were on about Punches? I said EXCHANGES that can mean anything. You cleary didn't read mine. You should probably re-watch the fight. Arlovski was winning the striking and pretty much all of the fight was striking. They did grappl for like a minute which was broken. Arlovski was winning then messsed up Fedor Ko'd him. But, Whatever If you even watched it you'd see Arlovksi was winning.


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## Mjr (Apr 22, 2007)

Devil_Bingo said:


> And who said we were on about Punches? I said EXCHANGES that can mean anything. You cleary didn't read mine. You should probably re-watch the fight. Arlovski was winning the striking and pretty much all of the fight was striking. They did grappl for like a minute which was broken. Arlovski was winning then messsed up Fedor Ko'd him. But, Whatever If you even watched it you'd see Arlovksi was winning.


I think your over dramatising things there little buddy.

Fedor got a bit flustered but it certainly wasn't panic statons for him.

The first mistake Andrei made Fedor took advantage of, thats because he is good enough to do so.

I understand you arguing the point if it went 2 or 3 rounds then Fedor knocked him out after being dominated. But in reality it was next to nothing and 1 round.
So are you saying Ko's dont count as a victory? it should be the fighter that was winning until that point?


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

When the hell did i say it doesn't count? Arlovski was winning. When did i even say Fedor didn't when? When did i say Arlovski Should've won? OH Thats right i didn't. I said Arlovski WAS winning untill he messed up. Actually learn to read before trying to post.


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## Mjr (Apr 22, 2007)

Devil_Bingo said:


> I don't think Fedor should be number 1 considering his last fight was in January and he was actually loosing the fight.


Haha ok.

So, He doesn't deserve number 1 HW spot because he was losing a fight before he won it?


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

Actually Yes. That doesn't make him a the top. When he was loosing a fight to a guy who has glass jaw :/


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## Mjr (Apr 22, 2007)

Hahaha, there is no need to reply to you anymore, you do my job for me!

You are "loosing" this argument yourself.


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

He was loosing to a guy with a glass jaw then he won becaus eof the mistake of Alrlovski. Either way Arlovski was winning in points then it happened. So Fedor shouldn't be number 1.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

Good list seems very accurate to me.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Devil_Bingo said:


> He was loosing to a guy with a glass jaw then he won becaus eof the mistake of Alrlovski. Either way Arlovski was winning in points then it happened. So Fedor shouldn't be number 1.


He starched Arlovski. That was the stiffest knockout any of the guys on this list have had.

Not to mention, Andrei hadn't landed a single substantial shot in that entire fight (unless you want to count the push kick, but the purpose of the kick was not to do damage).

I'm sick of this crap.

"He wasn't winning the whole fight, so he doesn't deserve to be #1."

Nogueira was getting killed by Herring and Sylvia, neither of whom are considered top ten guys at this point. Does that make his wins insignificant? Hell no.

Frank Mir was loosing to Brock when he caught the kneebar. Does that make the submission he caught insignificant? Hell no.

Sometimes you win because you catch your opponent. That's a legitimate way to win a fight and it happens all the time.

The fact is, Fedor wasn't loosing in any way remotely close to the other three fights I just mentioned. "On points" is a bullsh*t metric in MMA, because the sport isn't point sparring. He was losing on points, as opposed to losing in reality, because Andrei had failed to land anything substantial. Fedor landed one shot that was. That means a helluva lot more.


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## Mjr (Apr 22, 2007)

Devil_Bingo said:


> He was loosing to a guy with a glass jaw then he won becaus eof the mistake of Alrlovski. Either way Arlovski was winning in points then it happened. So Fedor shouldn't be number 1.


Oh right, 
So Dan Henderson should be number one then, because he probably won the first round against Silva. 

This also means Gonzaga should be facing Brock now, considering he was winning the fight until Carwin Ko'd him.

It has all become clear to me now.


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

Mjr180 said:


> Oh right,
> So Dan Henderson should be number one then, because he probably won the first round against Silva.
> 
> This also means Gonzaga should be facing Brock now, considering he was winning the fight until Carwin Ko'd him.
> ...


*facepalm* You obviously not even reading my posts. Ok i shall explain in small sentences. Fedor loosing fight. Fedor won fight. Fedor didn't win in dominating fashion. How does that make him number 1? When the likes of Minotaro (yes he dominatated against Couture) and Brock dominate.

On Side note. The only thing wrong with rankings is Heavyweight division.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Devil Bingo these aren't P4P rankings though. 

How a fighter wins, whether or not they look good in their fights, their perceived skillsets etc aren't relevant to these rankings. 

Fedor defeated AA. That's all that matters in this discussion and to our rankings.


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## Mjr (Apr 22, 2007)

*facepalm,
Devil Bingo,
He knocked him out in the first round? Dominating fashion?
Are you reading any posts other than your own? Read Ironman's post please!


LOL @ your neg rep comment

Comments on this Post your obviouisly a dumbass who cant read, no point even replying anymore cuz you obviously cant read


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Devil_Bingo said:


> *facepalm* You obviously not even reading my posts. Ok i shall explain in small sentences. Fedor loosing fight. Fedor won fight. Fedor didn't win in dominating fashion. How does that make him number 1? When the likes of Minotaro (yes he dominatated against Couture) and Brock dominate.


This stupidity continues.

Fedor knocked Andrei out in one round. You think Minotauro beating Randy by UD makes him more worthy of being #1?

You think that Fedor, who's gone ten fights without any incident and more than 25 without a loss, should be ranked below Nogueira, who's 8-2 in his last ten? Not to mention that Nogueira is 0-2-0-1 against Fedor.

And Brock, who's 4-1 in five career fights? His record includes a win over a 3-6 Korean kickboxer with no bottom game, a UD win over Heath Herring, a knockout of a 45 year old Randy Couture returning from a year long layoff and a currently 1-1 series with a guy who got wrecked by Brandon Vera and Marcio f*cking Cruz?

Fedor knocked Arlovski out in 3:14 with a vicious counterpunch that left Arlovski stiff and didn't require any follow up at all. Who has Lesnar scored a walk-away knockout on? Who has Lesnar dominated the way that Fedor dominated Sylvia? Or the way Fedor dominated Mark Coleman?

Fedor has wins in his career that Lesnar will never post anything close to. And that doesn't mean Lesnar will never be number one. But it does mean that anyone who says Fedor has been less than dominant is a moron. Yeah, that means you.


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

Yeah im a moron because i don't think Fedor should be number 1 OMG I SINNED OH NO! Please. Did i say Nog. Should be 1? No. Did i even say Brock should be? No. I'm sure theres other people that would say the Same about Fedor.

You obviously think Fedor is some kind of MMA God. He shouldn't be #1. Yes he's beaten some good fighter past 2 years. But he fought last January (This year should effect rankings) and that was NOT impressive.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Then in your opinion who should be #1 ranked HW in the world?


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## Mjr (Apr 22, 2007)

Devil_Bingo said:


> When the likes of Minotaro (yes he dominatated against Couture) and Brock dominate.
> 
> .



You implied above that it should be Nog or Brock? now you are saying you didn't?

If not Brock or Nog then who?


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Kimbo Zlicccceeeee!!!112


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## Mjr (Apr 22, 2007)

Xerxes said:


> Kimbo Zlicccceeeee!!!112


No way man, James Thompson was beating Kimbo before Kimbo won therefore James Thompson is world number 1 HW


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Yeah but Kimbo is 4-1 on Youtube.


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

Mjr180 said:


> You implied above that it should be Nog or Brock? now you are saying you didn't?
> 
> If not Brock or Nog then who?


I didn't actually say Brock or Nog. Should or Shouldn't. 

Probably Brock meh.


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## Mjr (Apr 22, 2007)

Devil_Bingo said:


> No. Did i even say Brock should be? No. .


ILY


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

I like how you quoted that WHEN it WAS true.


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## Mjr (Apr 22, 2007)

But you argued this entire time, and refused to name a HW to take his place as #1? 
Seriously?


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

I JUST NAMED The #1. Jesus christ ACTUALLY READ THE POST. You may disagree ALL YOU Want cuz im gonna make myself not rpely. Just 1 thing. I'll write it in caps so everyone notices it. "WHEN FEDOR GETS KO'D COME TO ME AND I'LL BE THE GUY WHO TOLD YOU SO"


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Devil_Bingo said:


> Yeah im a moron because i don't think Fedor should be number 1 OMG I SINNED OH NO! Please. Did i say Nog. Should be 1? No.


Well, here's what you said:



> How does that make [Fedor] number 1? When the likes of Minotaro (yes he dominatated against Couture) and Brock dominate.


You make a post saying that Fedor isn't number one in the world and mention, in conjunction, two names of fighters who are *not at all* qualified to hold the #1 spot in the rankings.



> You obviously think Fedor is some kind of MMA God. He shouldn't be #1. Yes he's beaten some good fighter past 2 years. But he fought last January (This year should effect rankings) and that was NOT impressive.


There were people still calling Randy a top ten heavyweight when he hadn't fought in fourteen months. A nine month layoff (and it may be more like a year before the next time Fedor fights) is a long time, but hardly unheard of.

I don't really care that Fedor last fought in January. He had a great showing and knocked Arlovski clean out in round one. The end of that fight is undisputable.

And if you're not going to say who you think should be number one, then you're making a ridiculous argument. If none of the other guys out there are better than he is, more deserving to be ranked #1, *then he's #1*. That's the way it works.

If Fedor doesn't deserve to be #1 and Brock doesn't. And Mir and Nogueira and Couture definitely don't (since they all have recent losses), then maybe we should just leave the #1 spot blank until the clouds part and someone who fits your criterion magically appears.


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

I just said who i think was #1. I said Brock.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Devil_Bingo said:


> I just said who i think was #1. I said Brock.


Cool. So you think a guy with five professional fights and a first round loss to Frank Mir deserves to be ranked ahead of a guy who hasn't lost since 2000 and, during that period, has posted twenty six wins and beaten down seven top ten heavyweights (and I'm only counting Nogueira once, though he was top ten the second time they fought, too).

You think a guy who's had one successful title defense is more dominant, more impressive, then a guy who defended the Pride title three times before the organization folded then beat two top ten, former UFC heavyweight champions in less than a round (combined).

That's fine, but you're wrong.

Let's not even mention the position Arlovski was in when he was going into that fight with Fedor, having been cut from the UFC while on a three fight win streak (which is unheard of). He'd posted five straight wins, with four finishes, and hadn't lost since '06 (that second Sylvia fight). His technical striking had dramatically improved and he was considered a legit threat (much more so than Sylvia, who was cut from the UFC after going 1-2, with the last fight being his loss to Nogueira).

Arlovski was considered a top five heavyweight going into that fight, and Fedor scored a walk-away knockout. Lesnar has never done that to anyone, much less a guy considered a top five fighter (and I should point out that Carwin *still* is not a top five guy, so he doesn't even have that chance this time around).


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

Brock been more dominate in his past 3 fights in UFC. Can't remember who Fedor beaten in past five fights? Arlovski, Sylvia and Linland that all i remember. I Don't think Beating Lindland is overly impressive as he's what? 38? 39?

On side note. Arlovski why was he cut from UFC then? You said he was on 3 fight winning streaks, Why was he cut then? Drugs?


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Devil_Bingo said:


> Brock been more dominate in his past 3 fights in UFC. Can't remember who Fedor beaten in past five fights? Arlovski, Sylvia and Linland that all i remember. I Don't think Beating Lindland is overly impressive as he's what? 38? 39?
> 
> On side note. Arlovski why was he cut from UFC then? You said he was on 3 fight winning streaks, Why was he cut then? Drugs?


You really wanna bring up Lindland's age. He's 39. And Couture is 45.

Fedor's last five wins are Arlovski, Sylvia, Choi, Lindland and Hunt. Take a trip to sh*tdog or wikipedia.

Arlovski was cut because of issues with Dana and because of general frustration after the Werdum fight. There are a lot of personal issues between the two management groups, but those have less to do with it.

Pretty much nobody gets cut from the UFC after a win without disciplinary issues (i.e. Babalu, who was cut after the David Heath win because he held the choke). So the deal with Arlovski was shocking, but a lot of that had to do with Andrei wanting to fight Fedor, too.

I can't believe I'm explaining this.

Andrei was ranked #2 or #3 (depending on the rankings), ahead of Lesnar, going into the fight with Fedor. That win streak (which consists of more wins than Lesnar has in his entire career) had a lot to do with it.


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## dutch sauce (Sep 24, 2006)

franklin deserves to be top 5 in the mw, and probly top 10 in the lhw


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

dutch sauce said:


> franklin deserves to be top 5 in the mw, and probly top 10 in the lhw


Yeah. I was waiting for someone to bring this up.

Franklin isn't eligible for the middleweight division, as it's been well over twelve months since his last middleweight fight.

His last fight in the middleweight division was against Travis Lutter in April, 2008. The catchweight fights count as lightheavyweight bouts.

If he were still active as a middleweight, he'd probably be ranked, given that Henderson is ranked at #3.


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## Mjr (Apr 22, 2007)

Devil_Bingo said:


> Brock been more dominate in his past 3 fights in UFC. Can't remember who Fedor beaten in past five fights? Arlovski, Sylvia and Linland that all i remember. I Don't think Beating Lindland is overly impressive as he's what? 38? 39?
> 
> On side note. Arlovski why was he cut from UFC then? You said he was on 3 fight winning streaks, Why was he cut then? Drugs?


Are you f*ing kidding me, You can't remember who Fedor fought in his last 5 fights? Then instead of looking it up you post a blind post continuing to argue your point? 

Your school thanks you for not joining the debating team.


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## RUmbleBOnes (Sep 25, 2009)

I pretty much agree with the HW top ten except for a few...
Heres probably what I would put.

1. Fedor
2. Brock
3. Nogueira
4. Mir
5. Couture
6. Overeem
7. Rogers
8. Barnett (I know, not allowed)
9. Carwin
10. Dos Santos 

No way in hell id put Arlovski in any top ten imo Your only as good as your last fight and his last two outings weren't that great. 
I like Nog ahead of Mir. I had staff infection and I thought I was gonna keel. To fight shortly after would be insane to me. Not taking away from Mir:sarcastic12: he did his job and all, I was just shocked on how easily he handled Nog.
I shuffled a few around just for debate:thumb02: and actually agree that Dos santos should be in there; what other HW deserves the honors?


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

Devil_Bingo said:


> I JUST NAMED The #1. Jesus christ ACTUALLY READ THE POST. You may disagree ALL YOU Want cuz im gonna make myself not rpely. Just 1 thing. I'll write it in caps so everyone notices it. "WHEN FEDOR GETS KO'D COME TO ME AND I'LL BE THE GUY WHO TOLD YOU SO"


Wow! I'm speechless. Your argument is probably the worst I've seen about anything, ever. :confused02:

"When using grape jelly as a lotion cures cancer, I'll be the guy who told you so!"

Seriously, you sound ridiculous.


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## Mjr (Apr 22, 2007)

RUmbleBOnes said:


> I pretty much agree with the HW top ten except for a few...
> Heres probably what I would put.
> 
> 1. Fedor
> ...


I like your list, makes sense, I think Couture probably needs to be nudged down a few spots, other than that i agree entirely


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Devil_Bingo said:


> Brock been more dominate in his past 3 fights in UFC. Can't remember who Fedor beaten in past five fights? Arlovski, Sylvia and Linland that all i remember. I Don't think Beating Lindland is overly impressive as he's what? 38? 39?
> 
> On side note. Arlovski why was he cut from UFC then? You said he was on 3 fight winning streaks, Why was he cut then? Drugs?


How do you make the argument that Lindland age is the problem? He would have been 37 and one of the hiighest rated MW's in the world, age wasnt a problem but the fact is was a MW fighting at HW was a joke. The only thing that even adds the slightest credibility is the fact that I do think Fedor probably can make LHW.


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

Best rankings av seen probably, but know one still knows how to rank the LW division properly. Alvarez 3rd? kawajiri 5th? why? Alvarez is definite top 10 but above Maynard and Edgar? no way. Alvarez's last 3 wins were against very low rated LW's, except Imada who is only a mid level LW. Maynard and Edgar have been fighting top LW's non stop for the past 3 years or so. 

Kawajiri beats JZ and that puts him in the top 5? why exactly? JZ isnt a even top 10 opponent and is way overrated IMO, but regardless of my opinions that win still doesnt put anyone in the top 10 let alone top 5, especially in a stacked division like the LW's.


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## Boneleg (Sep 25, 2009)

Mjr180 said:


> I like your list, makes sense, I think Couture probably needs to be nudged down a few spots, other than that i agree entirely


I like his list as well, but if Barnett is going to be there at all(which I think he should), he should be higher up.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

My top 10 for HWs would be:

1- Fedor
2- Lesnar
3- Barnett
4- Big Nog
5- Mir
6- Couture
7- Rogers
8- Carwin
9- Velasquez
10- JDS

I'm not sure about having Randy up there since he's moving down to 205. Will it be a permanent move though?


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

I have a question. How did Frank Mir get to be top 5?

The Nog fight was definitely questionable. And he was beaten twice just before then and only had one win over Lesnar. And the only reason Lesnar is ranked so high, is because he beat Mir and Couture. Who besides Nog did Mir beat that's top 10? Lesnar wasn't even ranked AT ALL when Mir beat him. 

And how is Lesnar #2? Do UFC champs automatically get top rankings even when they're record isn't extraordinary? A no name Korean kickboxer, a win over Couture, a decision over HH and a 1-1 with Mir and you're top 2?!


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> And how is Lesnar #2? Do UFC champs automatically get top rankings even when they're record isn't extraordinary? A no name Korean kickboxer, a win over Couture, a decision over HH and a 1-1 with Mir and you're top 2?!


So pretty much in all your threads your a Lesnar hater? Lesnar is good and technically the UFC's best heavyweight, but hes not better then Fedor, thus putting lesnar into 2nd


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> I have a question. How did Frank Mir get to be top 5?
> 
> The Nog fight was definitely questionable.


Why is it "questionable"?

Rankings are only based on accomplishments and Mir defeated Nog. 

Whether or not Nog was 100% at 92 or GSP was mentally strong when he fought Matt Serra the 1st time shouldn't matter a bit when you put together division rankings. 



> And he was beaten twice just before then and only had one win over Lesnar. And the only reason Lesnar is ranked so high, is because he beat Mir and Couture. Who besides Nog did Mir beat that's top 10?


Nobody. 

But who besides AA did Rogers beat that's top 10? Who besides GG did Carwin beat that's top 10? Who besides Werdum did JDS beat that's top 10? I could go on forever like that. 

That's just how shallow the HW division is. One win over a top 10 win bumps you in the top 10. 



> And how is Lesnar #2?


He beat 2 top 10s back to back, who else can you say that about in the HW division besides Fedor?



> Do UFC champs automatically get top rankings even when they're record isn't extraordinary? A no name Korean kickboxer, a win over Couture, a decision over HH and a 1-1 with Mir and you're top 2?!


So who else would yoou have as #2?


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Xerxes said:


> Why is it "questionable"?
> 
> Rankings are only based on accomplishments and Mir defeated Nog.
> 
> ...



Definitely agree with the bolded part. As for who's number 2? Tough call. But how is Frank Mir ranked top 5?

If Frank Mir wasn't ranked top 5 - which he shouldn't be - Who did Lesnar beat? Couture? That's fine, rank him one above Couture.

Accepting that Mir should be ranked down by Carwin and Rogers, there's no excuseable reason to put Lesnar at #2.

Who else? Barnett being out of the mix makes that a tough, tough call. But if Carwin beats Lesnar, Lesnar will be 3 and Carwin will be 2nd top heavyweight. Is everyone okay with that? 

Maybe we can just put the top 10 heavyweights in a non-sequential list. Just jumble them all together with no rank.


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## RUmbleBOnes (Sep 25, 2009)

Mjr180 said:


> I like your list, makes sense, I think Couture probably needs to be nudged down a few spots, other than that i agree entirely


Rep to you my friend Looking back on it, I placed Randy in the middle due to the amount of title fights he's been in. All his fights are block buster and head liners. No fighter ranked under him has done some thing like that. I figure thats gotta _weigh in_ for the rankings.


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