# ***OFFICIAL*** Renan Barao vs. Urijah Faber II Thread



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

*Bantamweight bout: 135 pounds*
*Main event - Five round fight for the UFC Bantamweight Title*















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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Rooting for Faber hard here.
I think he'll do better than the first fight, but Barao is just too skilled and is such an unbelievably bad matchup for Faber. I think Barao gets off to a strong start and wins the first two rounds clearly with Faber picking up steam at the end.

48-47, 48-47, 49-46 for Barao.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

I think Faber has a better chance than Cruz. Faber is tough so I will go Barao by dec. But I hope he finds the finish and makes a statement here.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

I really like Faber and he is in an amazing run. If someone is to dethrone Barao, it could/should be him. 
Problem is, I will still root for Renan, but as I wanted to see Faber as champ once again, if he takes it, would be consolation prize for me.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Really don't care for Faber, but for one night, I'll be cheering that cocky lil bastard on.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Really do or die for Faber at this point. It all comes down to him as well, whether he hurts and finishes him or he get's decisioned again. 

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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

At least Faber has the momentum of a very busy 2013 behind him.


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## MK. (Dec 16, 2012)

I don't particularly care for Fabber as his character is really one dimensional, but i hope he smashes Barao. The later seems like a such a insufferable ****.

Should be a great fight nonetheless, i expect it to be something like Condit vs GSP, hopefully without the refs ******* shit up.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

No reason to believe it's gonna be any different from their first fight. Faber's front leg better expect some bruising.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Faber in with a chance as always, but Renan beat him once, has improved vastly since, and will probably beat him again, maybe stop him.

Faber is fighting on short notice, but Renan's coach said, he's a very different fighter to Cruz so it's like a short notice fight for him too.

I think Barao finishes Faber.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Have Faber and Barão ever did anything relevant to be disliked? Because if they did, I am truly unaware, but I often see posts mentioning how they are this or that or *****s. :confused02: Honestly confused...


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

I don't like Faber because he's a sore loser. :dunno:

Can't think of a reason to dislike Barao. Maybe because he has beaten someone's favorite fighter?


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## tommydaone (Feb 19, 2010)

I'll be rooting for Faber too but I think Barao has his number. 

God damn I can't wait for Cruz to come back


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

I like Barao but I'd quite like to see Faber hold UFC gold at least once, so I'll be rooting for him.


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## dvonfunk (Oct 31, 2007)

As good as Faber has looked, I don't see why this fight should go any differently than their first. I'd guess Barao by decision.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

If Faber loses to Barao it will be the death of the BW division. Faber has pretty easily taken out the top 5 of the division and if he falls to Barao again.. what's next for the champ? TJ Dillshaw?


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

amoosenamedhank said:


> If Faber loses to Barao it will be the death of the BW division. Faber has pretty easily taken out the top 5 of the division and if he falls to Barao again.. what's next for the champ? TJ Dillshaw?


Cruz :laugh:


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## dvonfunk (Oct 31, 2007)

amoosenamedhank said:


> If Faber loses to Barao it will be the death of the BW division. Faber has pretty easily taken out the top 5 of the division and if he falls to Barao again.. what's next for the champ? TJ Dillshaw?


Well Faber should lose, so the bell will toll for the BW division I suppose! Assuncao and Dillashaw are the only "worthy" challengers I see left in the division unless someone drops down from FW (Cub Swanson if he fails to get a shot at the belt?). 

I think Dillashaw needs one more win over a top 5 guy (Wineland or McDonald) before he's considered for a shot. Based on the rankings, Assuncao is theoretically next in line. I've left Cruz out of the discussion because of the perenially uncertain status of his paper mache knee. 

Is it conceivable that if (when) Aldo tunes up Lamas, he finally makes the move up to LW, and as a result with a win over Faber, Barao moves up to FW??? If memory serves, the issue of Barao moving up has been discussed in the past, but was avoided because Aldo held the belt. Aldo and Barao moving up would shake up three divisions for the better IMO.


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## arkanoydz (Mar 15, 2010)

I can see how Faber could come off a little smug, even a Napoleon-complex kinda guy but I really respect him as a fighter - Just for the fact that after losing his title to Brown in 2008, Faber's been fighting a title fight every year... gotta give him credit for constantly bringing himself to title bouts and putting on good performances against younger competition even at the age of 34...

Ludwig's undeniable effect notwithstanding, I believe Barao takes this one but I think Faber will give him a better fight this time 'round.


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## dvonfunk (Oct 31, 2007)

I can see how Faber is a polarizing figure with the whole "California Kid" surfer dude/pretty boy persona, but like him or hate him, he is a damn good fighter. Anyone with working eyeballs and half a brain can see that. 

Personally, I'm not a Faber fan, but I don't dislike the guy, and I sure as hell respect him. 

What impresses me perhaps more than anything is, despite his age, mileage, and experience, he always seems to be improving. He has- or would- truck any guy in the division not named Cruz or Barao, and really, the same could probably be said for anyone in the FW division too, aside from Aldo, and maybe Edgar.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Faber will make it a fight, but Barao is too good.

Barao UD.

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## boatoar (May 14, 2010)

Heart - Faber
Mind - Barao

It would be nice to see Faber hold UFC gold at least once. It's very difficult to imagine him doing so if he loses this fight.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

Big time Faber supporter... really hope he can find some way... any way to get the W this weekend.

Barao seems so unstoppable... but 12 months ago I would have said the same thing about Silva, JBJ and GSP.... so crazier things have happened.


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## Jumanji (Mar 30, 2011)

I'm a Barao fan I like his style and all he's a stone cold killer, but I think it's time Urijah holds that UFC strap.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Barao on my ffl team and want to see Faber hold a belt. Win win for me!! Can't wait to see this fight.

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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Okay i'm starting to ban anyone here who roots against Faber. :admin:

_..techinically_


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Rauno said:


> Okay i'm starting to ban anyone here who roots against Faber. :admin:
> 
> _..techinically_


How about those who, merely hypothetically speaking, show a tendency to root in favor of Barao (but not necessarily *against* Faber, no man)? 

Did I mention that was an hypothetical question already?


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

I'd love to see Faber win UFC gold, but Barao is just such a tall order. Taller order than Cruz in my opinion.

Still, Faber is on a roll. This is the best time for him to get another chance. I hope he makes the best of it. I'll be cheering for him.


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

boatoar said:


> Heart - Faber
> Mind - Barao
> 
> It would be nice to see Faber hold UFC gold at least once. It's very difficult to imagine him doing so if he loses this fight.


Exactly how I feel...:thumbsup:


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...I picked Barao again. I think another UD if not a finish. This fight is gonna be totally sick! Faber's game has surged and peaked but Barao has become this crazed animal. Faber doesn't check legkicks too well and Barao kicks like a freakin' mule! If Faber doesn't get it to the ground and control Barao in the clinch, Renan will brutally pick Urijah to pieces on the feet...


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## MMATycoon (Aug 15, 2011)

Barao via KO.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> No reason to believe it's gonna be any different from their first fight. Faber's front leg better expect some bruising.


Not saying Faber will win, but I do think there is reason to believe that Faber will fair better than he did the first time. That didn't even look like Faber in there the first time imo. Ludwig has really pushed Alpha Male fighters lately and Faber has looked unstoppable.


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## MMABettingTips (Feb 1, 2014)

I think this is an extremely tough fight for Faber.

The UFC hype train has done a great job of making the casual MMA fan think this is a close fight, but in truth he is very outmatched in this one.

I've written a bit more about how I think this fight will play out here...

http://mmabettingtips.com/betting-tips-ufc-169-barao-faber/



> Urijah Faber is one of the most popular fighters in the UFC and his recent string of impressive performances have generated a lot of hype for the Californian Kid. This has resulted in 50% of all the bets placed on this fight, going on a Faber win. This is an insane statistic because Faber only has a very small chance of winning this fight.
> 
> To give you a better understanding of why you should be placing your bets on Renan Barao, we’re going to break down every element of this fight, so that you can feel more confident betting on Barao to win, at the relatively small odds of 1.36 [-275 | 4/11]…
> TIME TO PREPARE
> ...


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Come on guys, let's be real here. Barao is going to dominate Faber. This time I can see the finish occurring in the 4th round.


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## GDPofDRB (Apr 18, 2013)

I agree, barao is better then the first time they met. Bad matchup on short notice for Faber.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Barao by another landslide decision over Asschin.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Faber is as solid as never. Real threat I would say, but Barao is the favorite for a reason, or a bunch of reasons.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Finally a fight that will end in a finish. Good night Faber.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Wonder what Dede's blood pressure for tonight is...


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

USA chant before the fight even starts.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

Wat!!!!


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Awful stoppage just awful


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Faber just laid there. I want to say BS stoppage but when the ref yells at you 3 times to fight back and you do nothing it's gonna happen.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

weakest stoppage I've ever seen


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Barao won't lose for a long time.


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## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

I can't believe I stayed up to watch this. Such bullshit.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Gross stoppage.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

right... well guess I'll go to bed then


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Goodnight everyone.
I don't really drink anymore so I'm just going to drive around for a really long time until I'm not angry anymore.


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## Jumanji (Mar 30, 2011)

Bad stoppage, but either way Faber was getting his ass kicked.


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## Ddog0587 (Jul 2, 2011)

Garbage Stoppage.


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## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

TanyaJade said:


> Goodnight everyone.
> I don't really drink anymore so I'm just going to drive around for a really long time until I'm not angry anymore.


Good night! 

Stay safe out there! :hug:


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

cdtcpl said:


> Faber just laid there. I want to say BS stoppage but when the ref yells at you 3 times to fight back and you do nothing it's gonna happen.


Feel the same. When I watched the replay though it was clear Faber wasn't doing absolutely nothing for a loooong while. Legit stop and he got crushed in every aspect.


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## GDPofDRB (Apr 18, 2013)

Faber got blown out real quick this time. Two best fighters in the world in action tonight.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

God those replays of Barao's punches are insane. That dude has some bombs.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I think Faber was catching his breath blocking most of the shots on his forearm and hand. But it wasn't a close fight unfortunately and Uriah got dropped earlier so Herb figured it was enough. Funny this is the fight I thought would go five rounds and it ends in the first.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Here's a lesson kids dont keep one hand up to block finishing punches because the ref will say you arent defending yourself, what a bunch of bullshit.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Faber face planted and then gave up. He got smoked, and was not doing any thing to defend himself after repeatedly hearing warnings from Herb.

Thumbs up? Is he having a laugh or what? There was no thumbs up, you gave up Faber and were waiting for the ref to jump in and stop the fight.


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## Ddog0587 (Jul 2, 2011)

Everyone of those hammer fist hit Faber's arm.....e even looked at Herb and gave him thumbs up. Just terrible....


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Alessia said:


> I can't believe I stayed up to watch this. Such bullshit.


yeah, it's what they say.
Some cards look crap on paper and end up delivering great fights.
Tonight we had a great card and everyone playing it safe, except of course Varner/trujilo and Barao,

Really bad stoppage Herd, he was hitting the arm with pitter patter shots.

almost 6am, of to bed i go.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Looks like his thumb was raised on the other arm behind the leg, I was looking at the other hand.

Hmm, either way, he still got smashed.


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

Well that was a weird stoppage but Faber wasn't doing anything to improve his position. Lying belly down and giving a thumbs up is not intelligently defending yourself.

Doubt the result would be any different anyway.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Faber face planted and then gave up. He got smoked,* and was not doing any thing to defend himself* after repeatedly hearing warnings from Herb.
> 
> Thumbs up? Is he having a laugh or what? There was no thumbs up, you gave up Faber and were waiting for the ref to jump in and stop the fight.


******* lol.


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## Azumo (Feb 8, 2011)

Oh god Joe


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Nova União 2-0 in one night. They gonna have a party for sure.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

AJClark said:


> ******* lol.


Plenty of other fights have been stopped when the fighter is just lying on the ground covering his head with his hands whilst taking repeated shots and making no effort to move position.

He should have moved.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

I would like barao to fight cruz next maybe and if he beats him move up because bantamweight is a piss weak division with no depth, and aldo can move up to right now and fight pettis.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Rogan: What should you have done to signal to Herb that you were ok?

California Kid: "I should have jumped up and say Herb I'm fine man." [email protected]!


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## Jumanji (Mar 30, 2011)

I would say grabbing a leg and blocking your face is intelligently defending yourself. Especially when you can tell the shots weren't getting through. I don't think the result would have been any different, but you never know. Feel bad for Faber.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Well yea, he should have jumped up, or at least attempted to get out of that position instead of just turtling it up and taking it.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Looks like his thumb was raised on the other arm behind the leg, I was looking at the other hand.
> 
> Hmm, either way, he still got smashed.


But you see? You and me needed a TV replay and look for a dumb thumb raised AFTER listening to Faber POST fight interview. How the heck Herb will look for a thumb while somebody is just laying on the canvas under strikes? Referee expects you to fight back, not waive concealed thumbs. I think Faber had fight in him, but I can't blame Herb Dean that much.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

pretty common strategy to drop down and grab a leg, often looks like going limp but it's not. Exact same thing happened with Mir and Barnett, either way Faber was on his way out


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> But you see? You and me needed a TV replay and look for a dumb thumb raised AFTER listening to Faber POST fight interview. How the heck Herb will look for a thumb while somebody is just laying on the canvas under strikes? Referee expects you to fight back, not waive concealed thumbs. I think Faber had fight in him, but I can't blame Herb Dean that much.


Yea, good point. I don't think any one seen that thumb raised live, if it was even raised intentionally by Faber as he says. If the ref is screaming at you to fight back, then god damn fight back and prove you're still in the fight. Wriggle around, try to stand up, do some thing. Face planting and then crouching down turtled up covering your hand with your head some times isn't enough for those split decision ref calls.


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## js9234 (Apr 8, 2007)

Huge Herb Dean fan but that was WAY too early. Not sure how there's an argument there. Urijah has to be one of the classiest guys there is. Perfect post fight speach.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Well yea, he should have jumped up, or at least attempted to get out of that position instead of just turtling it up and taking it.


Yeah and if he did that barao would have taken his back or got free shots to faber trying to stand up instead of blocking all of baraos shots like he was doing wasting baraos energy and then using the other arm when he stops to turn it into a takedown attempt. This wasn't manny gamburyan vs jose aldo ground and pound.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

OHKO said:


> Well that was a weird stoppage but Faber wasn't doing anything to improve his position. Lying belly down and giving a thumbs up is not intelligently defending yourself.
> 
> Doubt the result would be any different anyway.


Holding a leg and blocking 100% of the punches and taking no damage is absolutely intelligent defense. At that point Faber was in no danger but was not able to improve without receiving more damage. If Brock Lesnar was allowed to ride out an entire round than Faber should have been able to let his glove and shoulder take all of those weak punches


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Yeah and if he did that barao would have taken his back or got free shots to faber trying to stand up instead of blocking all of baraos shots like he was doing wasting baraos energy and then using the other arm when he stops to turn it into a takedown attempt. This wasn't manny gamburyan vs jose aldo ground and pound.


You just described a lose-lose situation for Faber. Luckily he was granted a less painful fast track to his loss, then.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

Well that bummed me out. I wish it was allowed to go longer but I've certainly seen worse stoppages.

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## anderton46 (Apr 23, 2010)

If Herb had just called it at that point without saying anything I'd agree it's a poor stoppage. But when you are in that position, the ref states 'fight back' and you don't make any effort to move, then it can easily be justified. Even if Faber felt he was in a perfectly safe position, he's heard the ref say fight back and he's done nothing.


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## StandThemUp (May 30, 2008)

js9234 said:


> Huge Herb Dean fan but that was WAY too early. Not sure how there's an argument there. Urijah has to be one of the classiest guys there is. Perfect post fight speach.


Not Saying Faber was ever going to win that fight, But that was a horribly early stoppage, It was almost like Barao baited Herb into stopping that fight. Basically, that sucked. I paid money for this, and not to see it stopped early for no reason. 

THAT SUCKED. Uriah is classy and accepts it, but he got screwed. Again, he may not have won, but the opportunity was stolen from him. 

If it's not the judges f'ing up decisions, it's Refs stopping fights too early. This sport is in serious danger.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

Twitter is going nuts with fighters calling it a horrible stoppage... it's crazy. My entire wall is nothing but fighters going nuts over it

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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Holding a leg and blocking 100% of the punches and taking no damage is absolutely intelligent defense. At that point Faber was in no danger but was not able to improve without receiving more damage. If Brock Lesnar was allowed to ride out an entire round than Faber should have been able to let his glove and shoulder take all of those weak punches


I couldn't agree more.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

I would really like to have seen how that played out.

Barao didn't pace himself or make any effort to conserve energy. I wonder if he might've punched himself out.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Trix said:


> I would really like to have seen how that played out.
> 
> Barao didn't pace himself or make any effort to conserve energy. I wonder if he might've punched himself out.


That;s what I was thinking, faber could have taken advantage right after.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Not saying Faber would have won, but c'mon... If someone like Travis freaking Browne can't get beaten half to death by Overeem and continue, then one of the best fighters to ever walk planet earth under 155 should have gotten more of a chance than that. What a crap stoppage.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Horrible stoppage for sure. Faber was holding a leg, blocking all the shots and even had time to give a thumbs up. God damn, Herb.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Doubt Faber would have won or even got out of the round but that stoppage was bad. Really bad. 

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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

K R Y said:


> Doubt Faber would have won or even got out of the round but that stoppage was bad. Really bad.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Yeah, this.


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## Stardog (Feb 24, 2013)

"Do something" means move your ass.

Faber was turtled, and even when told to do something, all he did was a thumbs up which nobody could even see. Thumbs up might work during a submission, but not when your head's getting bashed.

Good stoppage. He was getting beaten for pillar to post and completely outclassed.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Barao was awesome. The fight could definitely have continued, Faber was conscious enough that anything could have transpired. Barao would probably have beaten him more and got the stoppage anyway, or got back mount. Who knows, it is what it is and I'm surprised at Herb.

I guess if Assuncao wins his next fight, he's next in line.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

StandThemUp said:


> It was almost like Barao baited Herb into stopping that fight.


That definitely happened....and payed off.

In another note, LOL at the speculation Barao punched himself out. That's too much of a stretch. I think Faber had fight in him, but he was dumber than Herb Dean and thus more responsible for the stop than Herb. He wasn't moving. Although the hits where not landing at that moment, he was badly hurt before and was knocked down, so as he stayed *limp* on the ground, with Herb yelling at him, Herb clearly thought he was out and not recovering from anything.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Herb is a dumbass... in the first prelim fight it was like he was purposely stepping in front of the cameras.. and in the main event he stops it too soon. Normally he is good, tonight he blew it bigtime.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

K R Y said:


> Doubt Faber would have won or even got out of the round but that stoppage was bad. Really bad.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I will never write off a fighter who fought 3 rounds of a championship fight with two broken hands, nobody has more heart than Urijah Faber and I think he thought he was safe he was blocking the shots taking a moment to get his head straight and letting Barao expell some energy, I would argue that letting that continue not only didn't endanger Faber but was actually beneficial to him


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Stardog said:


> "Do something" means move your ass.
> 
> Faber was turtled, and even when told to do something, all he did was a thumbs up which nobody could even see. Thumbs up might work during a submission, but not when your head's getting bashed.
> 
> Good stoppage. He was getting beaten for pillar to post and completely outclassed.


The rules don't say "must do something"
The rules say must intelligently defend yourself
and he was.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

The stoppage was awful but I don't really feel it changed the outcome of the fight. I fear Faber is going to get another rematch though.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I thought that the stoppage was awful but even as Faber's biggest fan, I felt like he would have lost the fight anyway. He was getting his ass completely kicked by Barao before that awful stoppage.

I think if Faber wants to make another serious run he's going to have to rattle off another 4-5 wins if he wants another shot. And he needs to learn how to properly gameplan for guys like Barao too. It was sad to see how stifled Faber was by Barao's style.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I have a different take. I also thought Faber was in a compromising position especially since he was laying flat on his stomach with one hand on Barao's leg and the other defending himself. Usually it's the beginning of the end.

As I say they should all sign waivers then there won't be any further issues. Of course in hind sight we all know the fight could have went on, but that's a tough spot for any ref. Damn him if he takes too long to waive a fight and damn him if he doesn't. 

I think compliments should be doled out to Barao for doing what no other fighter has been really able to do that early on in a fight. He rocked em badly a few times. Barao has power and is a finisher. Out of all the fights I thought this one would go the distance though. 

So my take is, the focus shouldn't necessarily be on Herb, but really on how well Barao improved cuz Faber has been on a massive tear.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Was rooting for Barao but the stoppage was pretty bad. 

That said Faber was getting tagged and looked totally out-classed. Looked like he didn't belong. 

He said after the fight he had a bunch of injuries...of course.

Too bad for Faber that he had to step up that quick to fill in. That is more of the raw end than the stoppage. He will probably get another shot at some point, but too bad he had to hurry into that title shot. 

With Aldo/Pettis does this mean Barao moves up?


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

No_Mercy said:


> So my take is, the focus shouldn't necessarily be on Herb, but really on how well Barao improved cuz Faber has been on a massive tear.


Exactly this and Faber had his arse handed to Barao very early. He got demolished and outclassed in a way I wasn't expecting and I like Faber a lot. 

Plus, a veteran like him should be the first one to realize the potential events that can lead to a fight stoppage and staying limp while the referee is yelling at you is clearly one of these events, specially considering how Barao knocked him down to that position. Faber was so rocked, he was protecting his head instinctively rather than intelligently and after not responding to the referee, that was it.


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## Andrus (Oct 18, 2011)

I was hoping Faber would win, take him down, control him, little ground and pound...and then I saw the fight.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

It's clearly the Dwaine bang Ludwig effect we keep hearing about


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Good stoppage. Herb did what he was supposed to; if Faber could have continued he should have done what was needed for that to happen. The truth is Faber gave up and then tried to pretend like he was still ready to fight after the man beating his ass was peeled off of him. He was just holding onto Barao's leg while curled up in a ball. You don't do that if you want to keep fighting.


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## Swp (Jan 2, 2010)

I too thought was a good stoppage... 
Yea wasnt a clean one but still legit ...


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## sucrets (Jul 8, 2007)

Barao was winning but the stoppage was early.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

sucrets said:


> Barao was *destroying* but the stoppage was early.


Fixed for you. :wink01:


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Just saw the fight, and I completely agree with this post (must be a first). 

Matt Hughes used this jedi mind trick bs during his second fight with bj penn. He reportedly said to big john "jesus christ are you gonna stop this thing?" and Big John complied, awarding hughes the stoppage. 

Competitors should not be allowed to ask, beg, much less tell the official how to officiate. The NBA is all kinds of corrupt, but one thing they do have right is that players complaining to officials are often met with a swift sanction. 

Fighters should be admonished for this type of behavior: obvious begging or manipulating of the official, as was the case with barao, should not be allowed. 

Hopefully, the UFC and/or sports commissions will have a talk about this issue. 



StandThemUp said:


> Not Saying Faber was ever going to win that fight, But that was a horribly early stoppage, It was almost like Barao baited Herb into stopping that fight. Basically, that sucked. I paid money for this, and not to see it stopped early for no reason.
> 
> THAT SUCKED. Uriah is classy and accepts it, but he got screwed. Again, he may not have won, but the opportunity was stolen from him.
> 
> If it's not the judges f'ing up decisions, it's Refs stopping fights too early. This sport is in serious danger.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Terrible stoppage. I really think Barao would have won, but you can't think that stoppage was legit. Punches to a guys glove whose holding onto a leg is not enough to stop a fight. The fans got robbed. I would say Faber got robbed too, but I don't think he was going to win anyhow so I don't feel too bad for him.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

To avoid further confusion, we should have established how long a fighter should be allowed to grab a limb face planted to the ground covering up and stay absolutely still while taking consecutive hits even when yelled to by the referee. That should give a guideline to referees, but I think if they actually create something that specific, the amount of time should be less than the one granted to Faber.

From the POV of Herb Dean, Faber never recovered from the barrage that led him to the knock down. Staying limp did not help him either. And also, consecutive blows to the head protected just by your hand and nothing else is far from intelligent defense, as each blow is shaking your head violently hand or no hand. Cover up for one or two blows and then moving out of the way is one thing, but staying there forever immobile is another story.

Blame is on Faber, Herb Dean was just worried about his health. Able to continue or not, Faber did stop fighting and he was given unanswered verbal calls.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> To avoid further confusion, we should have established how long a fighter should be allowed to grab a limb face planted to the ground covering up and stay absolutely still while taking consecutive hits even when yelled to by the referee. That should give a guideline to referees, but I think if they actually create something that specific, the amount of time should be less than the one granted to Faber.
> 
> From the POV of Herb Dean, Faber never recovered from the barrage that led him to the knock down. Staying limp did not help him either. And also, consecutive blows to the head protected just by your hand and nothing else is far from intelligent defense, as each blow is shaking your head violently hand or no hand. Cover up for one or two blows and then moving out of the way is one thing, but staying there forever immobile is another story.
> 
> Blame is on Faber, Herb Dean was just worried about his health. Able to continue or not, Faber did stop fighting and he was given unanswered verbal calls.


It is funny how people are so confused about this when in the fight two fights before it Mir showed how to properly show the ref you are defending yourself. I always reference back to the Carwin/Lesnar fight, in that fight a lot of people thought it should be stopped and while it was happening I thought it would. But in watching the replay whenever Lesnar was told to defend himself he pushed Carwin off, tried to re-adjust, etc. He did something other than the Tito Turtle. A thumbs up is a good way to signify you are safe when you are in a submission and the ref can't see your head/eyes to tell you are awake, it really means nothing when some dude is pounding on your face.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

In hindsight it looks like Faber had some fight in him left, but watching it live it was almost impossible to say. Before the onslaught, Faber faceplanted and layed belly down all stretched out on the floor which looked similar to fighters getting flash KOed. Then he somehow turtled up and grabbed a leg, but did nothing to improve his position any further, so he rather looked like a fighter on survival instinct and not like one being intelligently in the fight.

People who say he intelligently defended himself by covering up with one hand at his hand seem to think that in that way he wouldn't receive any damage. This is not a computer game. In reality even if some of the power is absorbed, you still get damage.

And it's not like the fighters don't know that a fight could be stopped if they don't start to move. Pre-fight the referees actually come to the locker room of the fighters and literally tell them that if they are in such a bad spot and the ref tells them to move, they have to move or the fight is going to be stopped.
In the fight Herb Dean shouted several times that Faber has to improve his position or the fight is going to be stopped. Faber didn't, so it's his own fault.

The stoppage, although Faber probably had still some fight in him left, was absolutely justified in context of MMA being a sport. In a real fight, Barao would have punched Faber in the back of the head and thereby probably make a quick finish. So the rules allowed Faber to stay in that position with less danger, but on the other hand the rules also said that he had to advance his position. Faber can't have both, on the one hand using the rules to hide behind a forbidden striking area (his back of the head) and then complain on the other hand for the rules being applied to stop the fight because he didn't advance his position although being called to do so.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Iiterally not a single person I watched it with, who all train and watch a lot of mma thought it should have been stopped live. As in they were yelling don't stop it when Barao looked at Herb. I understand why it was done that many punches without movement didn't give Herb a lot to go on but he should have just let Faber go out on his shield. Faber has shown to be notoriously hard to finish and not a guy that just turtles and looks for a way out. This isn't Vitor blasting Henderson and him droppinh limp Faber fell down flat but it at no point did I see the flash limp that happens all the time.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> Iiterally not a single person I watched it with, who all train and watch a lot of mma thought it should have been stopped live. As in they were yelling don't stop it when Barao looked at Herb. I understand why it was done that many punches without movement didn't give Herb a lot to go on but *he should have just let Faber go out on his shield.* Faber has shown to be notoriously hard to finish and not a guy that just turtles and looks for a way out. This isn't Vitor blasting Henderson and him droppinh limp Faber fell down flat but it at no point did I see the flash limp that happens all the time.


It was not like Belfort vs Henderson, true, and I also had the feeling it could have gone a little longer, but the above, no! At least not if that means that Faber should really have been KOed for the fight to be stopped in that situation. The referee's job actually IS to protect the fighters from unnecessary damage.

It's Faber's own fault for not doing what he had to do according to the rules. Like not being allowed to grab the fence or your opponent's shorts it's not allowed to stay in a compromising situation without showing any effort to improve your position. That's part of what makes the difference beween MMA as a sport and a street fight.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Voiceless said:


> It was not like Belfort vs Henderson, true, and I also had the feeling it could have gone a little longer, but the above, no! At least not if that means that Faber should really have been KOed for the fight to be stopped in that situation. The referee's job actually IS to protect the fighters from unnecessary damage.
> 
> It's Faber's own fault for not doing what he had to do according to the rules. Like not being allowed to grab the fence or your opponent's shorts it's not allowed to stay in a compromising situation without showing any effort to improve your position. That's part of what makes the difference beween MMA as a sport and a street fight.


If you're fighting for a world title I'm pretty sure you want every possible second you can get. I'd rather be put completely out due to a slow stop than what happened to Faber and I'd say 99% of fighters would say the same thing. This is a world title fight not some facebook prelim. I'm saying let the guy at least show signs of going limp. If at any point Faber had gone limp or he'd been flash KOd I'd say sure step in. But if a guy is holding on and has his hands up let the man fight.

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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

We realistically can't compare the opinion of fight fans willing to see more fight or desperate to see his preferred fighter to recover with the important job a referee must do in behalf of the health of the competitors. Of course fans, camps and fighters will normally say "don't stop the fight".


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> If you're fighting for a world title I'm pretty sure you want every possible second you can get. I'd rather be put completely out due to a slow stop than what happened to Faber and I'd say 99% of fighters would say the same thing. This is a world title fight not some facebook prelim. I'm saying let the guy at least show signs of going limp. If at any point Faber had gone limp or he'd been flash KOd I'd say sure step in. But if a guy is holding on and has his hands up let the man fight.


Of course that's what most fighters say and want and from their POV it's absolutely understandable, but the referee has different concerns than they have. If the title was so important to Faber, why did he not move from his position although he absolutely knew that the fight would be stopped if he didn't¿ To keep the fight going it's just not enough to signal that you feel ok being used as a punching bag, but you have to show that you are actually still in the fight. He could have taken the chances to move to a better position, but he didn't. Faber knew what's going to happen. He gambled by just sneeking a thumb out insteat of trying for a riskier action to improve his position. He lost that gamble. Faber has to blame himself.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Voiceless said:


> ... you have to show that you are actually *still* in the fight.


Faber was "still" in the fight. That was the problem.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Faber was "still" in the fight. That was the problem.


When one guy is curled up in a ball with punches reigning down on him the fight is over bro.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

osmium said:


> When one guy is curled up in a ball with punches reigning down on him the fight is over bro.


That was a joke, bro. I am on your side on this one. Check my other posts on this subject. 

"Still" = motionless.

I reckon it was a subtle joke.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

osmium said:


> When one guy is curled up in a ball with punches reigning down on him the fight is over bro.


The sportsmannish fellow made a word play out of my statement by referring to the adjective form of "still" in the sense of


> *still* adjective \ˈstil\
> : not moving
> 
> : lacking motion or activity, while I was referring to the adverbial form.


while I was referring to


> *still* adverb
> : happening or existing before now and continuing into the present


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

You know I don't mind Barao or anything and he's obviously a great athlete.

But man his post fight celebrations are weird. It's like he's having a seizure half the time.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

TanyaJade said:


> You know I don't mind Barao or anything and he's obviously a great athlete.
> 
> But man his post fight celebrations are weird. It's like he's having a seizure half the time.


:laugh: Yeah, he celebrates like each win is the first time he has ever won.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

cdtcpl said:


> :laugh: Yeah, he celebrates like each win is the first time he has ever won.


Maybe that's the motivational secret behind him not losing in his last 33 fights :thumbsup:


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Voiceless said:


> Maybe that's the motivational secret behind him not losing in his last 33 fights :thumbsup:


Could be. 

Like I said it doesn't bother me or anything, it's just intense. I'm not a big fan of people showing that much emotion personally, especially in public, but it isn't like he's doing anything negative. Good for him if that is indeed his mentality.

It's just funny the level which he spazzes out.
It's like watching Alexander Ovechkin's goal celebrations times ten.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Voiceless said:


> Of course that's what most fighters say and want and from their POV it's absolutely understandable, but the referee has different concerns than they have. If the title was so important to Faber, why did he not move from his position although he absolutely knew that the fight would be stopped if he didn't¿ To keep the fight going it's just not enough to signal that you feel ok being used as a punching bag, but you have to show that you are actually still in the fight. He could have taken the chances to move to a better position, but he didn't. Faber knew what's going to happen. He gambled by just sneeking a thumb out insteat of trying for a riskier action to improve his position. He lost that gamble. Faber has to blame himself.


Not at all. If you are in a position where 100% of the punches being thrown at you are being blocked, raising your thumb should signal more than enough.

As another poster said, everyone who I watched the fights with trains. Everyone in the room said it was a bullshit stoppage.

Faber never went limp. He wasn't lying flat on the ground. He was on his knees and hanging onto a leg.

I would even say it was one of the worst stoppages I've ever seen... which is weird considering Herb was the ref. He's normally spot on.

I really think Barao staring at Herb asking him to stop the fight had more of an effect than he would be willing to admit to.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

What Barão does is no seizure. World is a big place, with a lot of diversity. That's the *dance of Forró* (_For All_), typical from the part of Brazil Renan comes from and a great success among foreigners coming to visit Brazil from all corners of the globe. TJ should finally get a Passport and come try.

Not my particular taste of music (dance has its qualities, though, depending on your partner :wink03, but very popular to a large amount of the population, as it represents joy and happiness. What Barão did was to give a lot of visibility for that genre not only to the rest of Brazil, but also the world. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forr%C3%B3


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Not at all. If you are in a position where 100% of the punches being thrown at you are being blocked, raising your thumb should signal more than enough.


As I wrote before, blocking punches doesn't mean that you don't receive any damage. Muñoz blocked Machida's kick and we've seen how much that helped him. 

You can discuss whether the rules should be changed, but as of now, every single fighter knows that if you are turtling up and do nothing to improve your position, the fight is going to be stopped. It's what the referees literally tell the fighters right before the fights in the locker room: http://vimeo.com/85218322 (11:45) Covering up is NOT enough, they have to move. It's Faber's own fault that he didn't.

There are certain things that could help you in a real fight, like grabbing the fence, hitting the back of the head, kicking a downed opponent in the head or turtling up in hope that the opponent punches himself out. They do not in the sport of MMA. Faber has to deal with it.



MMA-Sportsman said:


> What Barão does is no seizure. World is a big place, with a lot of diversity. That's the *dance of Forró* (_For All_), typical from the part of Brazil Renan comes from and a great success among foreigners coming to visit Brazil from all corners of the globe. TJ should finally get a Passport and come try.
> 
> Not my particular taste of music (dance has its qualities, though, depending on your partner :wink03, but very popular to a large amount of the population, as it represents joy and happiness. What Barão did was to give a lot of visibility for that genre not only to the rest of Brazil, but also the world.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forr%C3%B3


You sneaky Brazilians. Best fighters, best excuses, best dancers...

Forró looks a lot like Bachata:











Lyrics and music are pretty cheesy, but with the right partner... :thumb02:


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Voiceless said:


> As I wrote before, blocking punches doesn't mean that you don't receive any damage. Muñoz blocked Machida's kick and we've seen how much that helped him.
> 
> You can discuss whether the rules should be changed, but as of now, every single fighter knows that if you are turtling up and do nothing to improve your position, the fight is going to be stopped. It's what the referees literally tell the fighters right before the fights in the locker room: http://vimeo.com/85218322 (11:45) Covering up is NOT enough, they have to move. It's Faber's own fault that he didn't.
> 
> There are certain things that could help you in a real fight, like grabbing the fence, hitting the back of the head, kicking a downed opponent in the head or turtling up in hope that the opponent punches himself out. They do not in the sport of MMA. Faber has to deal with it.


Last I checked, intelligently defending yourself meant... intelligently defending yourself... like blocking punches. Munoz did slightly block Machidas kick. But then Munoz dropped to the floor with his hands out to his sides obviously extremely hurt from the kick. Faber didn't even look phased by the ground punches, probably because every single one of them was hitting the pad of his gloves. The damage he was taking on the ground was minimal compared to the shots he had just taken. Not to mention the split second Barao moved, Faber stood up. It was not a quick recovery standup like we've seen before (Fitch vs Hendricks), it was a WTH why the is the fight over standup? He wasn't even phased at the time the fight was stopped.

I would say intelligently defending yourself means blocking punches / going for a takedown. Most people agree - regardless of the fact Barao probably would have won anyhow.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I really think Barao staring at Herb asking him to stop the fight had more of an effect than he would be willing to admit to.


That definitely happened. I think Barao was concerned about how hurt Faber was when he face planted to the mat and wasn't moving at all while receiving all those punches. I think Barao genuinely thought Faber was out on the ground, that's why he was calling Herb Dean attention.



PheelGoodInc said:


> *Faber didn't even look phased by the ground punches*, probably because every single one of them was hitting the pad of his gloves. The damage he was taking on the ground was minimal compared to the shots he had just taken.


That's the problem, man. Faber didn't look *anything*.
The minimal damage he was receiving on the ground is not supposed to be compared to the shots he received standing: They effects are to be added to the previous ones. How you recover from heavy shots by taking successive lighter shots and not moving even when listening to the referee screaming to you? When the referee screams, next move is on you, otherwise... end of fight.



PheelGoodInc said:


> Not to mention the split second Barao moved, Faber stood up. It was not a quick recovery standup like we've seen before (Fitch vs Hendricks), it was a WTH why the is the fight over standup? He wasn't even phased at the time the fight was stopped.


All of this doesn't really matter because it happens AFTER the stoppage. *I believe Faber could continue* even though I had no idea how he would escape from there by daydreaming on the canvas, but since he gave no useful information to the referee as being OK, Faber is to blame for the stoppage.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Last I checked, intelligently defending yourself meant... intelligently defending yourself... like blocking punches. Munoz did slightly block Machidas kick. But then Munoz dropped to the floor with his hands out to his sides obviously extremely hurt from the kick.


Muñoz did not just slightly block the kick, he had his hand completely between his head and Machida's foot:










Of course, that's not the same as with Barão vs Faber. It's just to show that even if you block a strike, there is still some power going through the block. That's why just blocking and doing nothing else is not enough in MMA.



> Faber didn't even look phased by the ground punches, probably because every single one of them was hitting the pad of his gloves. The damage he was taking on the ground was minimal compared to the shots he had just taken. Not to mention the split second Barao moved, Faber stood up. It was not a quick recovery standup like we've seen before (Fitch vs Hendricks), it was a WTH why the is the fight over standup? He wasn't even phased at the time the fight was stopped.
> 
> I would say intelligently defending yourself means blocking punches / going for a takedown. Most people agree - regardless of the fact Barao probably would have won anyhow.


Faber wasn't going for a takedown. He was turtling up. He had one hand around Barão's leg, but he did nothing with it. He wasn't pulling the leg or pushing Barão's body, he was just turtling up, nothing more.

Concerning the blocking the punshes, as I said, in a real fight that might have worked, but in the sport of MMA it doesn't. Look at the video link I posted. Yamasaki literally says that you have to move in order to be recognised as intelligently defending yourself. That's not some ref justification after a bout, but a clear announcement to the fighters just before the fight.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Voiceless said:


> Look at the video link I posted. Yamasaki literally says that you have to move in order to be recognised as intelligently defending yourself. That's not some ref justification after a bout, but a clear announcement to the fighters just before the fight.


Just watched the video. :thumbsup:

There's actually nothing else to be discussed after it. Fighters are informed before hand of their responsibilities.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> That definitely happened. I think Barao was concerned about how hurt Faber was when he face planted to the mat and wasn't moving at all while receiving all those punches. I think Barao genuinely thought Faber was out on the ground, that's why he was calling Herb Dean attention.
> 
> 
> That's the problem, man. Faber didn't look *anything*.
> ...


I see what you're saying about Faber being able to continue. I don't think that's up for debate.

The rest though just makes no sense to me. Thats like saying a guy on bottom who's eating shots and not taking damage must 'Do something' or a ref is going to stop the fight. How many guys get punched from on the bottom and aren't improving the position? A hell of a lot.




Voiceless said:


> Muñoz did not just slightly block the kick, he had his hand completely between his head and Machida's foot:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The kick went over the top part of his glove after the contact 











Holding onto a leg is going for a takedown. I used to battle simply by holding a leg all the time in wrestling. It's part of the takedown. Just because he wasn't in the process of moving with it at that time doesn't mean it wasn't an attempt.

Regardless, it was a terrible stoppage. Faber wasn't in a position of danger, he was blocking the punches and receiving minimal damage, all while going for a takedown.

It's scary to think after being rocked while fighting back, a ref could stop the fight simply for not improving position.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

PheelGoodInc said:


> The rest though just makes no sense to me. Thats like saying* a guy on bottom who's eating shots and not taking damage must 'Do something' or a ref is going to stop the fight.* How many guys get punched from on the bottom and aren't improving the position? A hell of a lot.


Any fighter must do something when the referee says so. It's the "doing something" that will indicate to the referee you are not taking damage. I think that's clear enough. Faber did not, fight was stopped. I think is simple.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Any fighter must do something when the referee says so. It's the "doing something" that will indicate to the referee you are not taking damage. I think that's clear enough. Faber did not, fight was stopped. I think is simple.


Says who? I didn't know 'doing something' upon request was a required rule. Intelligently defending yourself is, which is what Faber was doing.

I would even argue making a thumbs is is considered doing something. We've already seen this many times before when people are attempting submissions.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

PheelGoodInc said:


> *Says who?* *I didn't know 'doing something' upon request was a required rule.* Intelligently defending yourself is, which is what Faber was doing.


Says Mario Yamasaky in an official UFC locker room pre fight briefing nicely posted by Voiceless already.


Voiceless said:


> It's what the referees literally tell the fighters right before the fights in the locker room: http://vimeo.com/85218322 (11:45) Covering up is NOT enough, they have to move. It's Faber's own fault that he didn't.





PheelGoodInc said:


> *I would even argue making a thumbs is is considered doing something.* We've already seen this many times before when people are attempting submissions.


It could eventually be considered if the thumb was seen by anyone, but since it was an unthinkable thing to expect from a guy taking punches (not being choked) and I did not see it, you did not see it and certainly the person in charge did not see it until the replay, that thumb doesn't count for anything.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I see what you're saying about Faber being able to continue. I don't think that's up for debate.
> 
> The rest though just makes no sense to me. Thats like saying a guy on bottom who's eating shots and not taking damage must 'Do something' or a ref is going to stop the fight. How many guys get punched from on the bottom and aren't improving the position? A hell of a lot.
> 
> ...


This is gibberish. You aren't attempting something if you aren't trying to do it. He wasn't attempting a takedown and he wasn't being punched while in guard. He was turtled up on the ground after being dropped and eating punches. It has always been the case that the fight is in danger of being stopped if you don't start trying to avoid strikes in that situation.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Says Mario Yamasaky in an official UFC locker room pre fight briefing nicely posted by Voiceless already.


Different ref and different fight. Even that, is simply an opinion by a ref (a terrible one at that), and not an official rule. Is there footage anywhere of the same thing being told to Faber before his fight? Otherwise you're speculating.




> It could eventually be considered if the thumb was seen by anyone, but since it was an unthinkable thing to expect from a guy taking punches (not being choked) and I did not see it, you did not see it and certainly the person in charge did not see it until the replay, that thumb doesn't count for anything.


Not unthinkable at all. Faber didn't want his position to get any worse, so that's why he did the thumb up. Had he forced a worse position, he would have taken actual damage.

And you agree Herb missed the thumb up. That's two mistakes made on his part.

Again, the rules state he must intelligently defend himself. He was. It's very simple.



osmium said:


> This is gibberish. You aren't attempting something if you aren't trying to do it. He wasn't attempting a takedown and he wasn't being punched while in guard. He was turtled up on the ground after being dropped and eating punches. It has always been the case that the fight is in danger of being stopped if you don't start trying to avoid strikes in that situation.


Grabbing a leg is part of a takedown. I used to go for the low ankle and hold it all the time until one of us made the next major move. You weren't a wrestler, were you?

Avoiding strikes can mean blocking them... which he was doing. 100% of the strikes in that position landed on the pad of his glove.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

*Updated info. Standard procedure and all fighters are advised.*



> Barao, though, doesn’t believe it was premature, which is the reason he kept looking at Dean during the final barrage of blows.
> 
> “I keep looking at him because *backstage he said that if your opponent doesn’t show any movement while receiving strikes, he might stop the fight,”* he said. “So I kept eyeing him in case he did stop it.
> 
> “I was just there to do my job. The referee knows when to act. I just train and fight.”


http://mmajunkie.com/2014/02/renan-barao-on-ufc-169-title-win-controversy-potential-third-faber-fight/


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> *Updated info. Standard procedure and all fighters are advised.*
> 
> 
> 
> http://mmajunkie.com/2014/02/renan-barao-on-ufc-169-title-win-controversy-potential-third-faber-fight/


He did show movement. He gave a thumbs up. A universal sign for 'I'm okay.' Herb missed the movement and ended the fight. So it was a bad call.

Again, even that is an opinion by a referee and not a rule. The rule is to intelligently defend yourself. Blocking every punch thrown is doing just that. I sound like a broken record.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Again, even that *is an opinion by a referee* and not a rule. The rule is to intelligently defend yourself. Blocking every punch thrown is doing just that. I sound like a broken record.


The opinion of the Captain will prevail in the flight you're the passenger. The referee, the person in charge, briefed the fighters, as they always do, what would happen and it happened according to the briefing. That's not a matter of opinion.


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## GDPofDRB (Apr 18, 2013)

In retrospect, it might not be HD's best call. Live action doesn't happen in retrospect, he has to go off what he can see. He saw Faber get hurt and dropped. He saw him, not go for a takedown, but hold a leg and try to cover for over 20 punches once Barao knocked him down. Faber has to do something other then be in that position or the ref does. He didn't do anything to remove himself from that danger when the ref had already been witness to his physical damage leading to him being in that position only seconds earlier. Thumbs up doesn't remove him from the danger, nor does waiting for Barao to get tired (can't believe people have suggested that as a viable defense for why the fight should of went on). There is no previous history in a fight and no special consideration for title fight, the ref has an obligation to indiscriminately perform his duties in protecting the fighters. HD made the correct call during the fight, if Faber was still good to go, it's his obligation to display that visually by making it so, removing himself from the position. The luxury of retrospect in a live moment does not exist and a fighter cannot lean on it for the future like it does when wanting atonement for what is decided in the present.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

PheelGoodInc said:


> He did show movement. *He gave a thumbs up. A universal sign for 'I'm okay.'* Herb missed the movement and ended the fight. So it was a bad call.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Different ref and different fight. Even that, is simply an opinion by a ref (a terrible one at that), and not an official rule. Is there footage anywhere of the same thing being told to Faber before his fight? Otherwise you're speculating.


I've seen it plenty of times in pre-fight footage, it seems to be the standard procedure. During the fight, Dean shouts at least two times to Faber to fight back. That's when every fighter has to know that the fight is shortly before getting stopped. Faber didn't fight back nor improve his position.

Neither Rogan nor Goldberg had a problem with the stoppage during their live commentating. They actually had to watch the replay to see the thumb after Faber complained, but they still didn't commentate on it being an early stoppage. It's not until the post fight interview Rogan starts to question the timing of stoppage.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

Im no expert...

but I thought the 'thumbs up' was most commonly used when u are at risk of getting submitted? ie. to say "this isnt doing anything...but this guys underarm pit reeks"

... not so much when u are defending yourself from strikes. :confused02:


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Says who? I didn't know 'doing something' upon request was a required rule.


Finally found pre fight footage that answer this question for this specific fight. 








:thumb01:


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

Him not improving his position is what made me accept the call live... and still to this day. 

I think Urjiah was still conscious... he was still trying to put himself in a defensive position.. but if you don't move, they're going to call the fight. 

We've seen it a hundred times... intelligently defending yourself means more than laying there and covering up.

Herb could have let it go longer... but Urijah could have made a bigger effort to change positions when Herb told him to move.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

It was close. By the book the stoppage is sort of justified. For the fact it was a tough guy, whom you don't need to protect as much as say a Frank Mir, in a title fight...I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and warn him a couple more times to just get out of there. Was also a quick stoppage when you look at how many more heavier weight fights have let guys come back...even if a guy like Browne came back to win vs. Reem. Discretion goes to the ref but that was on the quick end.

I don't think Faber comes back to win. It was close to being early stoppage. Most times you expect a guy like Herb to stop it perfectly, but he was a little off there. Unless a guy is out a fight shouldn't be stopped by hammer fists. Perhaps Herb thought he was out for a split second or he may have wrongly let Barao sway him a little bit. But I don't think it is some out rage either way.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

When I saw it live, my instinct said Herb, you were a bit ruthless there.

I still feel that way but ultimately, Faber was hurt, he had quite a pasting before that final position, and Herb gave warnings.

Looked premature on TV, but Herb was right there and far as he's concerned, Barao dropped Faber like he hot and then lay into him like a machine gun. After a warning Faber didn't even try to change position and Renan was still wailing on him so... ruthless stoppage, but acceptable.


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