# George St. Pierre punches harder than Cain or Rampage, Kicks harder than Shogun



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/4/29/2142021/sport-science-georges-st-pierres-punching-power-2859-lbs-of-force



> UFC Welterweight Champion Georges St. Pierre makes the trek to the Sport Science lab to see if he has what it takes to beat Jake Shields in the Octagon. St. Pierre showed off his stamina and punches to ESPN Sport Science's John Brenkus where he tested St. Pierre's power and speed.
> - Stamina: When most fighters hit their ceiling (maximum), GSP is at 85% of his max
> - Georges St. Pierre's punch registers at 2859 lbs of force
> - Georges St. Pierre's kick registers at 3477 lbs of force
> ...


I can't believe GSP hits harder than Cain and drastically more than Rampage. No wonder he caved in Kos's face. Jake is going night night cause I doubt Hendo throws hands like Georges.


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## morninglightmt (Sep 7, 2008)

It just seems like the numbers get bigger with every new episode of the show. :confused02:


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## <M>MA (Nov 20, 2006)

Wow, if this is accurate.. C'mon GSP get aggressive and let's see a KO!


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

This has to be false information. No way he hits harder than heavyweights and one of the hardest hitting LHW's in the game.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

I bet it comes down to how you hit the measuring device as opposed to how hard you hit it. 

Just a guess. I don't really find it hard to believe he registered higher than Rampage. Despite his power he sometimes throws loops, but I didn't see his episode so who knows.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> This has to be false information. No way he hits harder than heavyweights and one of the hardest hitting LHW's in the game.


it cant be right, and i still dont believe lesnar cant punch as hard as cain and toney cant either, and i cant think gsp can kick harder than shogun, punch harder than cain as well. sportsscience has never seemed accurate to me


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

They said they use wireless accelerat-o-meters. Basically means it measures speed/distance covered. But, it doesn't measure weight, so they must be speculation somewhere along the line.


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## Deftsound (Jan 1, 2008)

I always suspected the numbers from that show were kinda exaggerated/inaccurate. Don't get me wrong it's a great show but I take it with a grain of salt.


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## xxxjeremyxxxx (Mar 22, 2011)

:/ LOL this is 100% fake people


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## Bisnauth (May 27, 2007)

Yeah, I don't buy that... Here we have Chriss Angel hitting harder than both GSP and Rampage...yeah right

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCK4XU1S2EA&feature=related


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

This has become embarassing, for anyone who doesn't realise, it's a HYPE show and 90% of what they say is absolute bullshit.

They may have been legit in the past but it is now just another part of MMA that has given in to the temptation to blur fact and fiction in the name of marketing. Sport Science has officially been infected.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Soojooko said:


> They said they use wireless accelerat-o-meters. Basically means it measures speed/distance covered. But, it doesn't measure weight, so they must be speculation somewhere along the line.


This actually explains everything. If all they are measuring is speed and distance covered they are only really measuring how fast his arm gets from point a to point b, not how hard the impact from the physical weight is and the force behind it.

Think of it this way. If I hit you with a pebble fired out of mini cannon (lol) going 100miles/hour it would register rly high on an accelerometer but probably not hurt much. But if I hit you with a 1-ton anvil going 10 miles/hour it wouldn't measure high on an accelerometer but it would damn well hurt.

That's my take, and would certainly explain why Rampage is so low.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Sports science is full of shit. The numbers get higher and higher for every fighter that has a fight coming up. Its to hype the show up and generate buzz.

Just watch what happens when Aldo or Faber goes on there and set a new "world record" for punching power.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

A sad day for Science


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

generally a more accurate measurement in force delivered is kinetic energy. It is physically impossible that George can produce more kinetic energy in his punch than Cain, the speed advantage is nowhere near sufficient, power in an actual wattage is fairly meaningless and power in lbs force (same as newtons) is just about as meaningless. That being said GSP does not produce more newtons of force than Cain does, he just can't unless he has bionic legs that each weigh 120 pounds.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Koscheck needs to fight Cain, Rampage and Shogun next.

That'll put an end to this little discussion once and for all.


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## FatFreeMilk (Jan 22, 2010)

GSP his Kos pretty hard on the chin and didn't knock him out, I'm pretty sure Rampage would've.


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## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

Now you know GSP holds back and doesent go 100% during fights like Matt Hughes said. GSP fights to not lose instead of to win. Cmon GSP, lets see a KO against Shields!!


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> George St. Pierre punches harder than Cain or Rampage


No, this gotta be wrong.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

On the next edition of Sport Science, Frankie Edgar hits harder than Mike Tyson.


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## FresnoFightFan (Apr 26, 2011)

morninglightmt said:


> It just seems like the numbers get bigger with every new episode of the show. :confused02:


next episode, Faber is gonna punch at 3214lbs of force.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Sounds to me like they're measuring speed only. Are they measuring the force of impact with pressure mats or just going by f=ma? If they're just guessing on the weight then that's some BS, but I've seen them using pressure mats as well. It's probably all just horseshit... which sucks because I liked when that show was legitimate


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Ugh. I hate these things. They never make sense. I bet next time we'll find out that Frankie Edgar actually punches the hardest.


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## IllegalLegKick (Apr 13, 2010)

This is obviously a joke no human being can punch with 2,800 lbs of force, Mike Tyson in his prime was registered at 1,800 lbs. You guys don't seriously think GSP can hit harder than Tyson right???


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## BazDaManUk (May 27, 2007)

it's about as useful as a punchbag machine, I hit as hard on that machine as one of my mates who has about 5 stone (70lbs) on me and in real life he hits much harder.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

GSP lacks KO's/TKO's with that kind of power  I'm calling shenanigans.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

IllegalLegKick said:


> This is obviously a joke no human being can punch with 2,800 lbs of force, Mike Tyson in his prime was registered at 1,800 lbs. You guys don't seriously think GSP can hit harder than Tyson right???


There is a very, very small list of people who hit harder then prime Iron Mike, I woudn't even know who could make that list, but I know GSP sure as hell isn't one of them.

let me youtube GSP's KO highlights, oh wait, he doesn't have one.


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

Their data collection methods on that show are laughable. Don't put any stock into anything they say.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

On the next episode, Chael Sonnen hits with 18 lbs of force! (blood test pending)


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> On the next edition of Sport Science, Frankie Edgar hits harder than Mike Tyson.


And Gina Carano slams a dummy with 4x the force of rampage.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Lol 

If they want serious power throw a glove on my dick, ima break the 3k mark


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

Hahahahaha... That's hysterical. That show's "measurements" are so bogus. Not saying it's not entertaining to watch our favorite fighters choke out scientists or kick through baseball bats, but that's ridiculous. I'd bet big money that Cain, Rampage and Shogun all hit significantly harder than GSP. Heck, look at their history of knocking people the eff out.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)




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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

What? This is bullsh*t through and through. If GSP hot harder than Rampage and Cain, he'd have more KOs than Rampage and Cain. Unless someone is suggesting Rampage is more accurate than GSP?

This is just a bunch of crap. Sport Science is notoriously innaccurate with just about every statistic they've ever presented. This thread is fail.


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> This has to be false information. No way he hits harder than heavyweights and one of the hardest hitting LHW's in the game.


As someone who studied alot of physics in college, I'll just say that I've seen alot of flaws in the way SportsScience develops their information. 
I can assure you that GSP - or any welterweight - can't match the punching, kicking, or takedown force of any top heavyweight.


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## Rastaman (Feb 25, 2010)

I don't believe anything I see on Sports Science, partially because it doesn't seem like it's actually possible (hits harder than Cain and Rampage??? stop please) and partially because I HATE the Sports Science guy.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

If Bisping hit that thing he'd get a better score than Rampage too, that's about how reliable that piece of crap is.


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## MasterYoda (Feb 14, 2011)

Toxic said:


> http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/4/29/2142021/sport-science-georges-st-pierres-punching-power-2859-lbs-of-force
> 
> 
> 
> I can't believe GSP hits harder than Cain and drastically more than Rampage. No wonder he caved in Kos's face. Jake is going night night cause I doubt Hendo throws hands like Georges.


yo that show is a bunch of bullshit if gsp hit harder than cain how come he doesn't have one sinlge KO on his record??? because that show and those numbers are a bunch of bullshit.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Toxic said:


> http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/4/29/2142021/sport-science-georges-st-pierres-punching-power-2859-lbs-of-force
> 
> 
> 
> I can't believe GSP hits harder than Cain and drastically more than Rampage. No wonder he caved in Kos's face. Jake is going night night cause I doubt Hendo throws hands like Georges.


I believe it's possibly accurate as far as the measuring gages go. The problem is, this doesn't translate to the octagon. Hitting a stationary target vs. a moving target that hits back. KOs are much less about power than people think. A KO comes from polished precision technique, just like submissions do. GSP has the explosive power he needs and likely always has. If he polishes his technique the KOs will start to come. No question about it.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I don't buy it on any level.

GSP has never shown any sort of real power, he's never finished anyone via KO, ever. He's got TKO's by hopping on people and finishing on the ground, but he's not once put someone away standing or hurt someone so bad standing he got on top and finished, except for Hughes in the second fight, and that was a head kick.

Rampage has rocked and put away people, he drops people in most of his fights. Cain has also shown more power than him.

I call pure bull and whatever benefit of the doubt I might have given Sports Science in the past has been shattered, as this is almost laughable.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

This is garbage.

Something no one has noticed.

GSP apparently punches harder than Shogun KICKS.

LAWL


All these shows are ridiculously fabricated to retarded levels.

I once saw this show where they said some technique (I think a front kick) was like "Dropping a cement block off of a ladder onto your chest"

Oh and a flying knee is the equivalent of hitting someone in the chest with a freakin sludgehammer.

No...no...-_-


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

People who think this is fake, likely also think KO's are about power and not technique. It's akin to thinking the best homerun hitter must be the batter with the strongest swing. 

I have no doubt sports science gages are not rigged. It doesn't mean for a second GSP has the best KO technique. If anything he needs to focus less on power and more on precision and accuracy.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Calminian said:


> People who think this is fake, likely also think KO's are about power and not technique. It's akin to thinking the best homerun hitter must be the batter with the strongest swing.
> 
> I have no doubt sports science gages are not rigged. It doesn't mean for a second GSP has the best KO technique. If anything he needs to focus less on power and more on precision and accuracy.


It has to do with both.

Mostly power though.

And if you think that this is legitimate, then I really can't even fathom a response to that.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> It has to do with both.
> 
> Mostly power though.


Simply not true.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Right, so a guy like Floyd Mayweather, who was boxing out of the crib, doesn't score a lot of KOs because his technique is off.

Meanwhile KO machine Ricardo Mayorga has been knocking fools silly with his windmill punches for years now.

Someone should tell this to Evander Holyfield as well...for years the dudes has been going toe-to-toe and getting in absolute wars with people. Dude was an elite boxer, but apparently he should've been taking notes from George Foreman's wide, looping arm punches the whole time, because that's where all the KO technique was at.

Use that thing between your ears, please. I have low tolerance and often become rude.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Keep it civil.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Right, so a guy like Floyd Mayweather, who was boxing out of the crib, doesn't score a lot of KOs because his technique is off.


Mayweather has great technique and gets a lot of KOs. He's also fighting guys with great defensive technique. 



Roflcopter said:


> Meanwhile KO machine Ricardo Mayorga has been knocking fools silly with his windmill punches for years now.


Also great technique. Yes he generates a lot of power also, but the precision is what he owe his success to. It is a sweet science. Just as him. 



Roflcopter said:


> Use that thing between your ears, please. I have low tolerance and often become rude.


I generally don't get baited by guys like you.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Has anyone in this thread actually watched the videos showing these tests?

If you did you would notice a few things like

1) I don't think I have ever seen GSP throw a hook in a fight like the one he used for the test let alone land one of them... He used a lot of forward momentum and a strong hook. Velasquez in comparison was much more stationary.

2) They measure the force by measuring the acceleration of a 300 lb bag. The bag does move just as much if not more when GSP hits it then the other guys. 

3) Anyone who questions GSPs power amazes me. He has power, he just doesn't show it off and doesn't go for one punch knockouts. He has dropped multiple opponents and broke Koscheck's orbital bone with a jab...

I am not saying that I think GSP hits harder then those other guys(from the views it actually looks like Shoguns kick should be strongest but then again it doesn't show a great view of GSP's kick). But if you watch the episodes the numbers look like they could be more accurate then a lot of you think.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Calminian said:


> Mayweather has great technique and gets a lot of KOs. He's also fighting guys with great defensive technique.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


25 KOs out of 41 fights...with the majority of them being accumulation stoppages rather than KOs.

Yes, that's a lot of KOs. Also, I forgot about the legendary defense of Arturo Gatti, who he punched in the face probably 1000 times.

But his technique must be bad, no?


Also..Ricard Mayorga has great technique.


Ricardo Mayorga has great technique....



Ricardo.......


Yeah, I'M the one doing the baiting.


I don't need anymore infractions. I'm done.




420atalon said:


> Has anyone in this thread actually watched the videos showing these tests?
> 
> If you did you would notice a few things like
> 
> ...


You think GSP PUNCHES harder than Shogun kicks?

Really?

Also this isn't at all an indication of power. Anyone could do that. It's a fluke thing and especially with the small gloves.

He's dropped dudes, true. His power isn't terrible. But it's nothing special.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> 2..I don't need anymore infractions. I'm done.....


I'm not sure what you're getting so worked up about. GSP has great power and sufficient power. He is still lacking the precision he needs to be a great KO artist. I think that may change, soon, but that's the case. Jusaying. I won't be offended if you disagree. Say how you feel and don't worry about it.



> He's dropped dudes, true. His power isn't terrible. But it's nothing special.


You're right because it's not married with perfect precision. If his opponents would stand still, he'd kill them. The raw strength and speed are there. But that's not fighting, and thus he doesn't generate the power and angles he needs to be a KO master in the actual octagon. Not yet. I do see him evolving in this area, and do think a KO of Shields is possible, even likely. GSP knows how to learn new things.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Calminian said:


> I'm not sure what you're getting so worked up about. GSP has great power and sufficient power. He is still lacking the precision he needs to be a great KO artist. I think that may change, soon, but that's the case. Jusaying. I won't be offended if you disagree. Say how you feel and don't worry about it.



Punching power is natural.

GSP will never be a KO artist. He isn't heavy handed. His accuracy is the only good thing about his game.

But you know, maybe I know nothing and GSP should be taking standup lessons from Brock Lesnar....seeing as Lesnar has such great technique that he starches guys with ease.

O wait.


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

420atalon said:


> Has anyone in this thread actually watched the videos showing these tests?
> 
> If you did you would notice a few things like
> 
> ...


This^

The issue is not the data, but the data collection. They make almost no attempt to control the variables when comparing fighters, and a 300 lb bag is a terrible choice to measure punching force. My 10 year old niece had better a better experimental design for her science fair project.

Honestly, somebody should force them to remove the word science from the show's name. This is pure pseudoscience.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Lol wow if i was sports science i would of just not of shown shit, because this is OBVIOUSLY a horrible way to measure a fighters power.... What a joke


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Lolbros this method of measuring force for fighters has been debunked a million times over.


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## astrallite (Mar 14, 2010)

Well it's also not impossible that the other guys simply didn't his hard on the show or was not used to what they were asking them to do.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Roflcopter said:


> You think GSP PUNCHES harder than Shogun kicks?
> 
> Really?


Did you read this part?



> I am not saying that I think GSP hits harder then those other guys(from the views it actually looks like Shoguns kick should be strongest but then again it doesn't show a great view of GSP's kick)





Roflcopter said:


> Also this isn't at all an indication of power. Anyone could do that. It's a fluke thing and especially with the small gloves.
> 
> He's dropped dudes, true. His power isn't terrible. But it's nothing special.


His power and not KO'ing guys have next to nothing in common. Who was the last guy he slugged it out with? 

GSP doesn't work his way into the pocket and then blast his opponents with power punches. He picks them apart from a distance with jabs, superman punches, feeler kicks and the odd straight right. He uses his ability to keep opponents off guard and out of range and then mixes in takedowns if they try to get in close. He throws very very few hooks and no true power shots. 

That doesn't mean his power is lacking, it means he chooses to dominate fighters with superior ability instead of getting into heated exchanges where all it takes is one lucky punch to end the fight. He learned that lesson the first time he fought Serra...

The fact that he still drops almost every one of his opponents during the fight with a jab or a straight right is pretty good indication that he has decent power as neither are usually finishing punches.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

GSP does not punch as hard as Cain and he does not kick as hard as Shogun.

That's all that needs to be said.


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## cursedbat (Apr 11, 2011)

This is rediculous I wouldnt even waste my time making an argument. Get serious.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

I guess there are some people in this thread who never have fought or at least sparred against both WW and HW to not only understand theoretically but also practically the significance of mass in punching power.

That said, it's absolute nonsense that a top WW would hit harder than a top HW.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

420atalon said:


> Has anyone in this thread actually watched the videos showing these tests?
> 
> If you did you would notice a few things like
> 
> 1) I don't think I have ever seen GSP throw a hook in a fight like the one he used for the test let alone land one of them... He used a lot of forward momentum and a strong hook. Velasquez in comparison was much more stationary.


Bingo. When Cain was on the show they had him throw a lead left hook at the bag, he didn't step into the punch at all, Cain just turned his upper body around and hit the bag while keeping his feet planted in place. GSP pretty much did the Hendo style punch as seen in the Bisping KO, he started well back from the bag, stepped into the punch hard and put all his weight & momentum behind it.



> I am not saying that I think GSP hits harder then those other guys(from the views it actually looks like Shoguns kick should be strongest but then again it doesn't show a great view of GSP's kick). But if you watch the episodes the numbers look like they could be more accurate then a lot of you think.


Looking at the kicks, GSP took a bigger step-in & windup than Shogun. The other thing I noticed is that GSP stepped further to the left of the bag with his lead leg while Shogun stayed closer to the centerline of the bag. This puts GSP in the sweet spot of the "power zone" as described in Bas Rutten's video.

Are the numbers accurate? Who knows? But the bottom line is it doesn't really matter since GSP never throws kicks or punches that way in a fight. He's not going to throw an H-bomb style punch and he's not going to kick using a giant step-in and full windup. It just doesn't happen.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

That's total BS... no way does GSP 
a) Punch harder than top ranked HW's
b) kick harder than shogun

I'm a huge GSP fan too! This show is getting out of hand.

Next episode we'll see Jose Aldo record a 3000lb jab and a 4500lb kick :thumb02:


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Really ?

Then how come this didnt happen. 










I actually thought it was credible when is saw Cains results but now its all horse shit.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

***** de Amigo said:


> Really ?
> 
> Then how come this didnt happen.
> 
> ...



i know! I cant even remember how many people i told that Cains punches harder than any boxer... Now i feel retarded for believing them.........


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

They should change the name of the show to sports-horseshit to be accurate.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

aerius said:


> Bingo. When Cain was on the show they had him throw a lead left hook at the bag, he didn't step into the punch at all, Cain just turned his upper body around and hit the bag while keeping his feet planted in place. GSP pretty much did the Hendo style punch as seen in the Bisping KO, he started well back from the bag, stepped into the punch hard and put all his weight & momentum behind it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is correct. Too many of you are missing the details here & just looking at the raw numbers & getting worked up over it.

If Cain threw his punch the way GSP did, his results would be much higher than GSPs results. (same with Shogun etc.) Like a few others have said, GSP doesn't throw like that in the ring. Does SP do this kind of thing purposely? Probably. Makes things more interesting & gets more views, I suppose, but it's too misleading for serious fans to really take much out of it. They're comparing apples to oranges & getting folks riled up by making it appear to be apples to apples. The numbers are probably reasonably accurate; however, the testing methods/styles/etc. aren't even close. One guy is practically jumping into his punch while another is throwing flat-footed. It's like a bait & switch. Don't fall for it.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Ill reserve judgment but clearly not scientific proof of who hits harder.


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

Only one way to settle this guys...I'm gonna go spit in GSPs face, stomp on his foot, and call his mother a dirty hooker, then if I'm still alive I'll go tell cain to go back to mexico or make me some taco bell.

results may take a few years, coma pending.

WISH ME LUCK!


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## Alex_DeLarge_V2 (Mar 10, 2011)

Even it was true, we'd never see it in an actual fight. That means taking a risk. Maybe he should have used those false accusations against a half-blind opponent in Koscheck.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Oh, f*cking great.


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

sports science was right....i don't know how jake survived those shots. gsp's jab hit so hard he ended up damaging his *own* left eye with the residual damage alone and his overhand right hit with enough force that it took out osama....*the next day*.

GSP...is the true hero today and should be praised for his hard work and all around awesomeness.raise01:


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