# God hates the UFC apparently



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

http://www.bpnews.net/BPFirstPerson.asp?ID=33627



> MILL VALLEY, Calif. (BP)--How should we as Baptists regard the growing popularity of Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) and the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC)? Simply put, we should hate it.
> 
> Psalm 11:5 says, "The LORD examines the righteous and the wicked. He hates the lover of violence." This is a hard verse for at least two reasons. First, it does not say that God simply hates violence, but rather, that God hates those who love violence. Second, it confronts our culture's lust for violence, a lust which many Christians indulge rather than reject.
> 
> ...


All from a dude who looks like this:










Who I would never leave alone with a child under 8.

If what hes saying is true... then god can kiss my arse.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

You can say god can kiss your ass just because of what 1 person says or thinks? you must hate a lot of people then. 

I didnt even read this article cause its probably all bullshit anyway.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Uh... astonishing. 

Well, if God hates it... it sure must be a lot of fun. Like premarital sex... or sex in general.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Who cares about the opinions of people who are slave to the most controlling, contradictory and corrupt concept ever created, religion?

There are lots of 'C' words that suit religion.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Imaginary beings do not scare the M.C.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

M.C said:


> Imaginary beings do not scare the M.C.


Yeah, but what if God turned out to be Joe Pesci?


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Then I'd cry. Simple.

On a side note, this article is stupid.


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Yeah, but what if God turned out to be Joe Pesci?


You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little fucked up maybe, but I'm god how, I mean god like I'm an eternal being, I'm all powerful? I make you cower, I'm here to fuckin' smite you? What do you mean god, god how? How am I god?
:thumb02:


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

22:1 Some time after these things God tested Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!” “Here I am!” Abraham replied. 22:2 God said, “Take your son – your only son, whom you love, Isaac – and go to the land of Moriah! Offer him up there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains which I will indicate to you.”

22:3 Early in the morning Abraham got up and saddled his donkey. He took two of his young servants with him, along with his son Isaac. 


<_<


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## GKY (Jun 3, 2007)

I'm a devout christian, and I must say he is way off the mark. Especially coming from the baptist sect I'm surprsied he came up with such words. 

God only desires that we remove self worth and believe on him and his sacrifice he made at the cross to pay for our sins, and that we trust him to guide us in our lives. Psalms came back when our objective was to forefill the law of Moses which no longer applies to our day to day lives.

If he truly hated the sport of MMA, he would purify the desires of those who continue to place their faith in him from desiring to watch it. Simple. So yeah, I completely disagree with this man.

Also, the guy who said religion is the horrible (not in those words), the route of all evil in the world isn't religion, it's pride.


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

Besides it doesn't really matter. As long as you say you are sorry and you accept Jesus before you die you can do whatever you want! :thumb02:


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

martial arts teach more than just fighting.

respect and self discipline are the staples of almost every martial art in the world. 

God hates that??


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

GKY said:


> I'm a devout christian, and I must say he is way off the mark. Especially coming from the baptist sect I'm surprsied he came up with such words.
> 
> God only desires that we remove self worth and believe on him and his sacrifice he made at the cross to pay for our sins, and that we trust him to guide us in our lives. Psalms came back when our objective was to forefill the law of Moses which no longer applies to our day to day lives.
> 
> ...



What does some old Japanese MMA have to do with evil? Can I still watch Pancrease and Dream? On a side note I always suspected Fedor could have some kind of dark lord superpower.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Yeah, but what if God turned out to be Joe Pesci?


George Carlin would still be alive.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Rusko said:


> George Carlin would still be alive.


Yay, I knew at least one person here would understand. :thumb02:

It seems I gotta spread some rep first. :/


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

pshh well god can fornicate himself with a metal rod.

just because i dont like some things doesn't mean i have to constantly bitch about them. he sounds like he has a bad case of being a little bitch, he needs to take a heavy dose of man the **** up imo


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Guess he's talking about New Testament God? Old Testament God would be front row.

P.s that guy is creepy looking.


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## LuckyPunch (Aug 31, 2010)

oh really? and what was the 10th plague of god? 

Killing all first borns!

Although i think that the words this guy says arent gods words! And i dont see why god should hate people who watch a great sport where a lot of self discipline and commitment are required! + nobody dies!


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> All from a dude who looks like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bet this guy has had plenty of those days when you are on your way out shopping somewhere really public, then while your on the bus or train on your way there you look down and notice a you have a great big cum stain on your trousers bang on the obvious place where you know and anyone else who may see it knows for a fact it can be not anything else other than a load of cum, yea he had plenty of those days all right, he sure is one big walking peace of cum.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

KillerShark1985 said:


> I bet this guy has had plenty of those days when you are on your way out shopping somewhere really public, then while your on the bus or train on your way there you look down and notice a you have a great big cum stain on your trousers bang on the obvious place where you know and anyone else who may see it knows for a fact it can be not anything else other than a load of cum, yea he had plenty of those days all right, he sure is one big walking peace of cum.


Man are you even supposed to be on the internet? No legal restrictions about you having access to the web? :confused02:


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

I also heard that Jesus hates hockey. He doesn't like seeing people get nailed into the boards.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

I bet his red polyester tie was made by some prostituted 6 year old working in a sweat shop for half a Ritz a day. How would god feel about that, hmm?


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

whaaa hes crazy! what about all the champions that god has coached over the last years?

franklin was his boy until AS reminded god that hes supposed to back up brazilians so god stripped franklin of the title and now is in AS corner every fight! you think its just lucky how he broke all ufc records? and he doesnt even try to hide it, every interview, every victory, he thanks god!

stop being blind man! god is training the best warriors of our timeraise01:


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## Magnataro (May 16, 2010)

Mirage445 said:


> You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little fucked up maybe, but I'm god how, I mean god like I'm an eternal being, I'm all powerful? I make you cower, I'm here to fuckin' smite you? What do you mean god, god how? How am I god?
> :thumb02:


Lmao, What am I!? A clown? Do I amuse you? :thumb02:


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> I also heard that Jesus hates hockey. He doesn't like seeing people get nailed into the boards.


Huahhahahahahah!


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

the bible is full of sanctioned violence, it's just always vengeful in the name of god. hell, even jesus ordered deaths, when christians so often claim that the NT was supposed to be some kind new deal where everyone gets kind and lovey with jesus.

article got at least two things wrong also, he doesn't seem to understand the concept of a fight going to decision, and the smaller gloves don't necessarily lead to more blood.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)




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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

These are the same nutjobs who send kids (yes, teenagers, disproportionately black and hispanic and poor whites) to war and support our bombing and killing of millions of people overseas:

http://www.christianpost.com/articl...cal-leaders-still-support-iraq-war/index.html

There are so many layers of hypocrisy it's unbelievable.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

I respect your beliefs, dude, but seriously think about it: if god is omnipotent and omniscient would god be so petty as to worry about whether people worship "him" or are loyal to "him?"

Why would he sweat it? Do you really believe god has something so silly and selfish as an ego to bruise? Oh, boo hoo hoo, you worship another god!

And why is god a "he?" God is totality and encompasses and transcends the limitations of gender. 

Or does god like football, and beer, and going fishing? If so, god's a cool dude, and would appreciate a fair fight which was broken up before one dude got seriously hurt. 

Also, if god were a cool dude, he wouldn't send his son to die on the cross. He'd send his son to a college campus, hang with some coeds, have a raging party and show everyone he's the coolest guy to hang with. No loyalty worries then. 



GKY said:


> I'm a devout christian, and I must say he is way off the mark. Especially coming from the baptist sect I'm surprsied he came up with such words.
> 
> God only desires that we remove self worth and believe on him and his sacrifice he made at the cross to pay for our sins, and that we trust him to guide us in our lives. Psalms came back when our objective was to forefill the law of Moses which no longer applies to our day to day lives.
> 
> ...


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

HexRei said:


> the bible is full of sanctioned violence, it's just always vengeful in the name of god. hell, even jesus ordered deaths, when christians so often claim that the NT was supposed to be some kind new deal where everyone gets kind and lovey with jesus.
> 
> article got at least two things wrong also, he doesn't seem to understand the concept of a fight going to decision, and the smaller gloves don't necessarily lead to more blood.


Didn't Jesus go Mike Tyson/Serena Williams inside of a church because they were like, not really doing the god thing right?


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> Didn't Jesus go Mike Tyson/Serena Williams inside of a church because they were like, not really doing the god thing right?


I think he just knocked over some tables and drove the merchants out or whatever. Check this tho:

"Those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them- bring them over here and kill them in front of me." - Jesus.
Luke 19:27

http://bible.cc/luke/19-27.htm

It's part of a larger parable of course, it wasn't literally jesus ordering people killed. But it sure sounds like he espoused the idea in this instance.


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## isaeagle4031 (Apr 29, 2007)

Wow lots of opnions and misinterpratations of the bible. Please don't take this one persons or relgious sect (baptist) as the opinion that God has of MMA and the UFC. 

What the scriptures they are referring to are actually saying is violence against inncocents. Compettion was and is not frowned upon by the God. 

I've had this debate with many people (in and out of the church) I teach a Christian based martial art and have helped train a couple of MMA fighters. They have taken such a narrow, Western mindset that says only they have the right answer based upon their own opinions and biases. The problem is they want to hide behind their flimsy interprattions then say it is God when God never said it. Just my 2 cents

As for post #31, please go back and read the entire passage. This is the last verse of a parable (teaching story) told by Jesus. There is much more to this when put into the proper perspective. This is also why I always teach people to read at least 4-5 verses before and after a verse to be sure they have the correct context.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Other christians don't like it when you teach self defense? What the....????

Oh wait, are you supposed to turn the other cheek?

But then the most devout of christians are more likely to support the war in Iraq?

http://www.christianpost.com/article...war/index.html


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## leviticus (May 27, 2007)

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't blood lust and female objectifcation the underpinnings of 3/4 of American pop culture? Seems sort of arbitrary to single out MMA/UFC. Why not college football, MTV, the evening news and its advertisers... The list goes on forever.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

i cant wait for the day when someones strongest arguments about something dont involve ''because god said...''

i mean really? really? hes trying to ban MMA and his big argument is god is against it??

its 2010 ppl...please...lets just try and actually THINK for a change...maybe form an educated opinion on a subject?:thumbsup:


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

They seem to have left out nascar and boxing and...k-1. 

Might as well outlaw pinatas while we're at it. 

What about kicking a soccer ball? Isn't that an act of aggression? Hitting a baseball? Yelling at a ref? Cheering too loudly? Belching and offending your neighbor? Correcting a dog for going pottie on your new carpet?

So many forms of aggression and anger to go after. 

What about the violence christians are doing to trees by purchasing bibles?


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## isaeagle4031 (Apr 29, 2007)

For some reason I'm not seeing the article you posted. I honestly can not say what the majority of other Christians believe about the war in Iraq. As a Christian and a veteran, I support our military no matter where they are. As for self-defense, most don't have a problem with that as much as a fear of "Eastern religions".

Again, just as we don't want "them" to classify us as violent (MMA/UFC fans), to classify all Christians as aligned with one group or part of a group (Baptists in this case) is just as wrong


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

michelangelo said:


> They seem to have left out nascar and boxing and...k-1.
> 
> Might as well outlaw pinatas while we're at it.
> 
> ...


or what they're doing to the kids.....:sarcastic12:....


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

isaeagle4031 said:


> For some reason I'm not seeing the article you posted.


His link is brokey.


http://www.christianpost.com/articl...cal-leaders-still-support-iraq-war/index.html



> I honestly can not say what the majority of other Christians believe about the war in Iraq. As a Christian and a veteran, I support our military no matter where they are.


Ugh.


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## isaeagle4031 (Apr 29, 2007)

Why the ugh Hexirei? If it wasn't for veterans and those serving, we wouldn't have the freedoms we have. Kind of hard to debate that. A strong military is a general deterant to war.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

supporting the troops when the cause doesnt justify the war i think deserves a ''ugh''

its ok to respect what they do but would you still support them if they were raping children in china? why this blind support for whatever the military does?

take a closer look at whats really going on, somtimes the support is ok, but sometimes its ok to not support a war you know


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

isaeagle4031 said:


> Why the ugh Hexirei? If it wasn't for veterans and those serving, we wouldn't have the freedoms we have. Kind of hard to debate that. A strong military is a general deterant to war.


Not if the war is pointless. Invading Iraq and Afghanistan, for example, accomplished nothing over the last near-decade except to spend money we don't have to get people (on both sides) killed that didn't need to die.


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## Heat02 (Dec 31, 2009)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> martial arts teach more than just fighting.
> 
> respect and self discipline are the staples of almost every martial art in the world.
> 
> God hates that??


Don't think God would like to see two guys beat each other up for the sake of being called the better fighter :confused05:

With that being said, I don't care what he says. He should be concerned with his pedophile friends. Very ignorant.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

isaeagle4031 said:


> For some reason I'm not seeing the article you posted. I honestly can not say what the majority of other Christians believe about the war in Iraq. *As a Christian and a veteran, I support our military no matter where they are. *As for self-defense, most don't have a problem with that as much as a fear of "Eastern religions".
> 
> Again, just as we don't want "them" to classify us as violent (MMA/UFC fans), to classify all Christians as aligned with one group or part of a group (Baptists in this case) is just as wrong


So you support people killing a million innocent people because you were in the military. That's completely insane. And why in the world would christians support such a thing.


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## GKY (Jun 3, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> I respect your beliefs, dude, but seriously think about it: if god is omnipotent and omniscient would god be so petty as to worry about whether people worship "him" or are loyal to "him?"
> 
> Why would he sweat it? Do you really believe god has something so silly and selfish as an ego to bruise? Oh, boo hoo hoo, you worship another god!
> 
> ...


We use to word he because it is what we are accustomed to. God does trancent all sexuality, and although depicted as a man, is actually just a spiritual entity. However, it's easier to write "he" than "spiritual entity". We don't use the word it because that is disprespectful. 

God doesn't desire that we worship him. He desires that we allow him to help us. As humans we are born into sinfull nature (not necessarily the original sin, but we are corupt at the core). It is said that the price of sin is death, as sin is partially the essence of evil and not of the Lord. 

Jesus came down to die on the cross because no human was ever able to trancend that sinful nature and be not of the world, but rather of god by completing the law of Moses (proving that we are of sinful nature). Jesus (who is God himself and the Holy Spirit BTW) was the only person to ever fully complete the law and never sin. As a result, when he died on the cross the perfect man, walking completely within his entrusted path, he paid the price of sin and became "the sacrifical lamb" so to speak. This is the whole essence of chrisitanity, and this is what we are meant to keep our faith in. 

If we accept that we can not bring our own salvation as all humans are unworthy, and trust that the Lord came down and died for our sins and ask to guide us, the holy spirit will decend upon us. Once this happens, as long as we continue to renue our faith with the process just mentioned, the Holy Spirit will guide us in our lives, and will begin the produce fruit. Just like any other frut, they won't all appear right away, but if we continue in our faith, they will grow. 

That's why I have a major problem with things like the catholic church, as well as other sects of christianity. They adultrate the word of the Lord by adding things out of nowhere like the requirement of deeds and trying to force themselves upon one another, which is actually completely against what the Lord wants. That isn't to say all catholics are going to hell, but I truely belive people get saved despite the catholic church, not by it. 

If you have any problems with the legitimacy of my claims, I have bible quotes to help explain everything I'm saying.

I hope that answers all your questions. God doesn't want us to worship him for the sake of his ego, he wants us to be with him for the sake of OUR salvation. No God doesn't hate MMA, as I explained in the last post, this man is wrong. And on a final note, it's important to remember that as we are all unworthy, we are in no position to judge others or judge the All Mighty.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

GKY said:


> We use to word he because it is what we are accustomed to. God does trancent all sexuality, and although depicted as a man, is actually just a spiritual entity. However, it's easier to write "he" than "spiritual entity". We don't use the word it because that is disprespectful.
> 
> God doesn't desire that we worship him. He desires that we allow him to help us. As humans we are born into sinfull nature (not necessarily the original sin, but we are corupt at the core). It is said that the price of sin is death, as sin is partially the essence of evil and not of the Lord.
> 
> ...


the end....sleep tight, dont let the bed bugs bite


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

GKY said:


> We use to word he because it is what we are accustomed to. God does trancent all sexuality, and although depicted as a man, is actually just a spiritual entity. However, it's easier to write "he" than "spiritual entity". We don't use the word it because that is disprespectful.


So just use the word "spirit."

The christian church is deeply sexist: how many women pastors do you see? Popes? Any women in positions of leadership?

The church perpetuates inequality between men and women.



GKY said:


> God doesn't desire that we worship him. He desires that we allow him to help us. As humans we are born into sinfull nature (not necessarily the original sin, but we are corupt at the core). It is said that the price of sin is death, as sin is partially the essence of evil and not of the Lord.


God doesn't need our permission to help us. God is well...god.

And god can't help us anyway: the future is predestined and god already knows what it is for each and every one of us. We don't know, but god does. 



GKY said:


> Jesus came down to die on the cross because no human was ever able to trancend that sinful nature and be not of the world, but rather of god by completing the law of Moses (proving that we are of sinful nature). Jesus (who is God himself and the Holy Spirit BTW) was the only person to ever fully complete the law and never sin. As a result, when he died on the cross the perfect man, walking completely within his entrusted path, he paid the price of sin and became "the sacrifical lamb" so to speak. This is the whole essence of chrisitanity, and this is what we are meant to keep our faith in.


Jesus was not perfect: 

1. he had self doubts

2. got angry at dad (which is actually himself, just, you know, not of this earth, and without a beard or sandals, or a kickbutt carpentry job). Therefore, god got angry at god. Or something like that.

3. threw a tantrum inside one of god's houses of worship (which logically speaking shouldn't exist since a god which wants to be worshiped implies that god has an ego, which implies that god has emotions, like a human, and therefore is not really god-like but human like). 

4. there is absolutely no independent corroboration of the existence of jesus by any credible historian. The only documents which do refer to the life of jesus are the bible, and forged documents. 

If there was some dude walking on water and turning water into wine, and hopefully disinfecting it after he had stuck his toenails in or on that water, don't you think there would be a slew of people (especially historians, whose job it is to document such things) documenting these events?

I mean, michael jackson did the moon walk on tv, and we all know who he is. 




GKY said:


> If we accept that we can not bring our own salvation as all humans are unworthy, and trust that the Lord came down and died for our sins and ask to guide us, the holy spirit will decend upon us. Once this happens, as long as we continue to renue our faith with the process just mentioned, the Holy Spirit will guide us in our lives, and will begin the produce fruit. Just like any other frut, they won't all appear right away, but if we continue in our faith, they will grow.


Dude, this doesn't even make sense. God doesn't need to or want to "guide" us: we already are predestined for a specific fate which god is already aware of and has or is making happen. It's not like it's a mutual conversation: god is all powerful and all knowing and created the universe. 



GKY said:


> That's why I have a major problem with things like the catholic church, as well as other sects of christianity. They adultrate the word of the Lord by adding things out of nowhere like the requirement of deeds and trying to force themselves upon one another, which is actually completely against what the Lord wants. That isn't to say all catholics are going to hell, but I truely belive people get saved despite the catholic church, not by it.


OK, well, we shouldn't add words to the words of god.

The reality of the situation is that the words of god as you understand it, are really words which are marginally edited stories of the sun god, pagan beliefs which were updated by roman politicians. 

Hence, we worship god (the sun) on "sun-day." God fights the "darkness" (night). God rises from the dead (the sun sets in the evening and rises in the morning). 



GKY said:


> If you have any problems with the legitimacy of my claims, I have bible quotes to help explain everything I'm saying.


okey dokey, smokey. 



GKY said:


> I hope that answers all your questions. God doesn't want us to worship him for the sake of his ego, he wants us to be with him for the sake of OUR salvation. No God doesn't hate MMA, as I explained in the last post, this man is wrong. And on a final note, it's important to remember that as we are all unworthy, we are in no position to judge others or judge the All Mighty.


Wait a second, god wants to help us and requires our consent in order to be helped, right? But if we have a choice in the matter, then we should have the implicit right to evaluate whether the god we have chosen can help us (is or is not all powerful), and whether god should help us (i.e., puts forth a set of beliefs we find acceptable, or even laudable). Therefore, we have to EVALUATE god in order to choose god, right?

But you're saying we can't do that, since god cannot be judged.

You can't have it both ways, pal.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

I'm just shocked at the audacity of a human being who is but a man to say what god hates. Who the hell are you to speak for not someone else but a entity that is supposed to be the divine creator of everything? I'm sure he hates you running your mouth about his likes and dislikes.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Terror Kovenant said:


> I'm just shocked at the audacity of a human being who is but a man to say what god hates. Who the hell are you to speak for not someone else but a entity that is supposed to be the divine creator of everything? I'm sure he hates you running your mouth about his likes and dislikes.


Well, god gave us chael sonnen's mouth as punishment.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

michelangelo said:


> Well, god gave us chael sonnen's mouth as punishment.


Hell no, Chael is ridiculously entertaining!


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

He probably didn't like it when they bit his style with UFC 8: David vs Goliath. 

Damn, give us a sweet idea but we aren't allowed to use it?


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Maybe, but Chael tapped, and we all know Jesus wouldn't tap:


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

isaeagle4031 said:


> Why the ugh Hexirei? If it wasn't for veterans and those serving, we wouldn't have the freedoms we have. Kind of hard to debate that. A strong military is a general deterant to war.


Sorry, buddy, we don't have any freedoms anymore. The patriot act destroys the constitution and the bill of rights and uses them for toilet paper:

http://fwatch.blogspot.com/2010/02/why-patriot-act-is-unpatriotic-and.html


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

michelangelo said:


> Well, god gave us chael sonnen's mouth as punishment.


chaels mouth is a gift from god.


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## SRCSBaseball (Aug 1, 2009)

I'm a Christian. But, I'm not a fan of the Baptist church. I grew up in one, but now go to more charismatic type church. There is none of the negative preaching and trying to control peoples lives by scaring them like in a Baptist church. There is nothing wrong with MMA in my opinion when it comes to religion. I've watched it with my Pastor multiple times actually.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

guy incognito said:


> chaels mouth is a gift from god.


That's what Dana said.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

That sounds pretty funny, wonder if that actually happened though!:thumb02:


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## GKY (Jun 3, 2007)

This will be fun



michelangelo said:


> The christian church is deeply sexist: how many women pastors do you see? Popes? Any women in positions of leadership?
> 
> The church perpetuates inequality between men and women.


When arguing about the word "he" and "spirit" you're really just nitpicking. It's a completely irrelevant topic. Now onto the important stuff.

First off I have already said I am against following a church, as I believe we must only follow the word of God, which is found in the Bible. The position of priesthood and pope are completely against the word of God. The apostle Paul said "The only mediator between man and God is the man Jesus Christ". 

It is also said in Acts chapter 17: "The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. 25And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.' 

That verse clearly shows that he doesn't care for man made structers, and he doesn't care about us worshiping him, but rather he just wants to help us if we allow him.

Also, when Peter (who the catholics claim to be their first pope, but this should refute that claim) was confronted by Simon, who was a man who wanted to buy the power of the Holy Spirit, and Peter said:

Act 8:20 But Peter said unto him [Simon], Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

Act 8:21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

Act 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. 

Assuming Peter was a pope one would assume he would follow the catholic traditions, like confession to a priest. However, he didn't say to this man who had sin that he should confess to him, but rather he said confess to God, that he may forgive you. This shows our confessions are meant to be for god alone, as only he forgives our sins. 

We as humans are all equal, and you are wrong to think that priests and popes are authority figures that mean anything. That is just nonsense created by undoctorine churches. 

As for Pastors, the last church I went to that was protestant had a lady pastor, as do many others. So your point is moot in that part of the argument. Also, you can ask any pastor and they will tell you that they are no better than anyone else, they are just believes in christ as we all are.





michelangelo said:


> God doesn't need our permission to help us. God is well...god.
> 
> And god can't help us anyway: the future is predestined and god already knows what it is for each and every one of us.


Ofcourse God doesn't need our permission to help us. He can do whatever he wants as stated eariler. However, he gave us free will, and we choose to turn away from him. 

As for the predestined thing. Beforehand I have to say we have to understand certain things we can not properly grasp a concept of, as it is above our understanding capabilities. This is one of them. However, I will give you my understanding of this matter. 

Imagine you had a friend that chose to starve themselves. You offer them food, and at every turn try to get them to eat. You know they will die if they don't eat, but they choose to refuse what you. You won't go and stuff food down their throat forcing them to eat, but rather you would accept their decision as much as it pains you. Same idea on a much grander scale. 

The whole predestined + free will thing is like saying how can God be Jesus, The Lord and the Holy Spirit all at once, yet each one remain a different entity. We can't grasp that concept properly. 



michelangelo said:


> Jesus was not perfect:
> 
> 1. he had self doubts
> 
> ...


Anger isn't a sin. Self doubt isn't a sin. It is how we deal with those emotions that matters. He never got angry at dad. Even till the end he said "your will not mine". 

The place of worship thing is about people coming together to try to grow with god, but it isn't meant to be an authority figurehead. Once again, he got angry, but anger isn't a sin.

Also, you claim that Josepheus's writings are altered. However, you rationalize that without showing any proof of said altration outside of your reasoning. Josepheus was a millitar learder and considered generally in high regard. There is no reason to belive his works were doctored. But even if they were, in all likelyhood it would at bare minimum mention of Jesus's existance.

Plus, there was a phenominal amount of people becoming christian just around the time of Jesus's death, and it continued to spread and grow. Why do you assume that just came out of nowhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#Gospels

That page covers some of the historical coverage of Jesus. That is ofcourse to disinclude the countless christan accounts, which I'm sure you do. 






michelangelo said:


> Dude, this doesn't even make sense. God doesn't need to or want to "guide" us: we already are predestined for a specific fate which god is already aware of and has or is making happen. It's not like it's a mutual conversation: god is all powerful and all knowing and created the universe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Once again. Free will. If I was to preform an experiment that I knew what the results would be because it is obvious, doesn't mean that I didn't give the experiment a chance to not go the way I expected. God happens to be all knowing, and in turn knew what we would choose, and in that sense it is predestined, but you are really just working under your own will. (Once again, my understanding but we can not fully comprehend all things)

As for your sun god arguments. I have seen the Lord do great things in my life as well as many others. When I removed me self worth and gave my life to him, I saw immediate changes as well as chages that came in the long run. It didn't change anything else in my life other than exepting what he did for me. So I have personally witnessed his love and glory. 

Christianity is the only religion I know of that only asks that we belive in the Lord, that he may do the rest for us. However, I belive this world is of Satan (not made by him, but he certainly has dominion over it. As a result, he has made it so that we always belive we have some big thing we have to do or accomplish, when really the answer is far more simple than that. Hence why churches become corrupt, because God opperates on faith (the one thing all humans are capible off), which is against our worldly nature to want to do. 

And things like "sun-day" that we worship god? The sabbath was saturday, not sunday, we changed that ourselves over time. And the new testament was originally written in Greek, so this is another moot point. 




michelangelo said:


> Wait a second, god wants to help us and requires our consent in order to be helped, right? But if we have a choice in the matter, then we should have the implicit right to evaluate whether the god we have chosen can help us (is or is not all powerful), and whether god should help us (i.e., puts forth a set of beliefs we find acceptable, or even laudable). Therefore, we have to EVALUATE god in order to choose god, right?
> 
> But you're saying we can't do that, since god cannot be judged.
> 
> You can't have it both ways, pal.


No, we don't have to evaluate. As I said, in order to truly accept God, you must realize we are all unworthy and can not bring our own salvation (hence why no human is better or worse than another, no matter what their deeds). That is part of the proccess. We know that God is almighty, and he came down here and conquered death for us. Now he has set the bar at the lowest common denominator that all humans are capible of, which is faith/trust. Accepting God is about removing judgement, not judging him. 

Once again, I hope this answers your questions.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

First of all, the percentage of female pastors is only 10% as of 2009:

http://www.christianpost.com/articl...pastors-doubled-over-past-10-years/index.html

Second, if you choose to believe, that is your choice. That's why it's called faith. 

Third, there is overwhelming evidence that christianity and the fictional jesus character in particular are cribbed from and identical to countless other religions, such as the myth of dionysus and horus, among countless others. 

The "evidence" used to prove the existence of christianity are fraudulent, such as the shroud of turin, proven a fake by carbon dating. These and other so called miracles are frauds perpetuated to increase the coffers of churches. 

The goal of the church is to promote the wealth of the elite of the clergy: they are incredibly wealthy as landholders, owners of precious art, and so on. 

Christianity is a scam used to create worldly wealth for a very few while keeping the ignorant masses from asking too many questions.

The christian church is also guilty of massive cover ups of child sexual abuse.

These are the real reasons for the upholding of false doctrine: it's so the elite can indulge in the exercise of fantastic power world-wide, the hoarding of wealth, and indulgence in perverse pleasures of all kinds which I will not bother to print here. 

All of it is a sham.

It's like the story of santa claus. We're all told that the good kids get gifts from santa who slides the chimney, and that the bad kids get nothing. This is just a lie that parents tell to control their kids and so that corporations can get rich. 

You can believe whatever you want. I hold no grudge against you have no desire to prove you wrong. If you really want to learn more with an open mind, you can watch the following:






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJSfdN68AsI&feature=player_embedded






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZVcGPERJoU&feature=player_embedded






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7J3PuSM_VA&feature=player_embedded

Feel free to read a book called Christ Conspiracy by Acharya S. It's 417 pages long so I'm not able to summarize here, but you'll get a better understanding of how these hoaxes are perpetuated:

http://www.amazon.com/Christ-Conspi...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283746722&sr=8-1

There are numerous other books on the topic, but that one's a good start, and a great scholarly reference. 

Good luck, dude. 




GKY said:


> This will be fun
> 
> 
> When arguing about the word "he" and "spirit" you're really just nitpicking. It's a completely irrelevant topic. Now onto the important stuff.
> ...


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

God's opinion doesn't matter, seeing as how God doesn't exist.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

AlphaDawg said:


> God's opinion doesn't matter, seeing as how God doesn't exist.


I believe that "god" or infinite love exists. And I believe infinite love created George Carlin to expose the bullsh#t lies:






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

AlphaDawg said:


> God's opinion doesn't matter, seeing as how God doesn't exist.


I agree with this.


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

Pretty sure that whole Christ is God thing was just some type of metaphor and figure of speech and Rabbi Yeshua never actually claimed to be literally God.

That's pretty much why Christianity makes me laugh, its founded by ignorance and retcons.

That and they decided they were just going to retcon everything in the Torah and change God to what they felt he should be like, mind you YHWH has been around for years and now all of a sudden he goes through some type of personality shift.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

I just got an anonymous neg rep from a "christian" who disagrees with me, lol. 

So much for those "loving" christians.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Ok, I disagree with that and on that note can someone close this forum before it gets nasty?


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

I don't think the forums should be shut down because you disagree with some of the comments. 

This is America, jack:


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

So far, the discussion is clean and civil, which is good. So long as it's civil, it's good, but the moment it starts to even tip downwards, this bad boy is gone.

Also, the forum isn't "American", there are people who post here from all over the world.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> I don't think the forums should be shut down because you disagree with some of the comments.
> 
> This is America, jack.


I lol'd


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Ok, my bad let me rephrase, can we shut downt he thread seeing as how it's already gotten nasty?


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

M.C said:


> So far, the discussion is clean and civil, which is good. So long as it's civil, it's good, but the moment it starts to even tip downwards, this bad boy is gone.
> 
> Also, the forum isn't "American", there are people who post here from all over the world.


I posted that comment in an ironic sense, as explained by the accompanying photo.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Can we please just shut down this thread?


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Can we please just shut down this thread?


No...


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> Ok, my bad let me rephrase, can we shut downt he thread seeing as how it's already gotten nasty?


Don't worry: I forgive you for neg repping me.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Actually that wasn't me, not sure who it was but they weren't following the model christian model behavior!:thumbsdown:


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

No more about closing the thread, and no more about reps. Keep the posting on the topic at hand. No need to reply to this post, no more off topic discussion.


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

Amyway back to the subject at hand, I just find it funny when self-righteous Christians use the Tanakh to promote an agenda.
The very nature of Christianity will promote legions of them to take this as if it were written by YHWH himself.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> Actually that wasn't me, not sure who it was but they weren't following the model christian model behavior!:thumbsdown:


No worries, man, it's just an example of how useless labels are: the non christians want to discuss christianity, and the christians don't want to discuss it at all. Now, that's ironic.

Professing christianity doesn't make one "good" and criticizing it doesn't make one "bad." I encourage you to stick around and air your point of view and be open to the ideas of others.

I'd say this topic is just as important as James Toney's paycheck, or maybe even MORE so.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well it is supposed to be teh inspired written word of God you know!


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Again, things aren't always as they appear.

If you are truly interested, watch the videos I posted with an open mind. Make up your own mind. God gave you a brain: use it!

We are told lots of things that are untrue. And we are prevented from learning things which are.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

well this discussion is pointless cause at the end of the day no1 will be right, i cant prove god doesnt exist and no1can prove he does

all we have is our opinions, now i tend to believe that he doesnt, the whole story just seems like santa or the easter bunny BUT there is a possibility that some type of ''god'' exists since there are still some things we cant answer and until we find out the answer with actual facts religion will always be there trying to be the answer

but i think we can agree on one thing...no1 can actually say what god likes or doesnt like, thats ridiculous, MMA isnt violence, its a sport, and it only helps ppl, helps them focus in life (especially those who are kinda lost, look at what MMA did to the last TUF winner) and its great for kids and also brings a lot of money to the state

theres no reason to ban this sport and no1 should have the right to claim its bad because god said so:thumbsup:


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Prevented by whom exactly?


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Like I said, by the church itself. 

You can't seek enlightenment and love from an institution which practices censorship and abuse. 

Check out the videos I posted. If you have the time to keep checking this thread, you have enough time to watch the videos. 

I'm resting up after about 6 hours of exercise this weekend. And some other stuff which is off topic.


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

Fact is, Christians need to stop spouting off like they know the will of YHWH. Blasphemy at its finest.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Although I've yet to meet a UFC fighter, I find it interesting that at least in interviews, the vast majority of UFC fighters seem exceptionally calm and down to earth, and very friendly towards all others (except when they see their paychecks, maybe). 

And the christians like the ones who condemned MMA are amongst the most vitriolic, aggressive and condemnatory individuals I've seen. 

I'd rather see actual, open direct aggression (in fair competition), rather than passive aggressive nonsense that comes out sideways.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> I also heard that Jesus hates hockey. He doesn't like seeing people get nailed into the boards.


But Jesus was a carpenter.


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## GKY (Jun 3, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> First of all, the percentage of female pastors is only 10% as of 2009:
> 
> http://www.christianpost.com/articl...pastors-doubled-over-past-10-years/index.html
> 
> ...


I've watched Zeitgiest a few times, and I have to tell you it's nothing more than propoganda used to prey on peoples sense of fear, in an attempt to create anarchy. There are a bunch of flaws with what they say about Christianity done via clever word play. 

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread346668/pg1

That is just one of the sites that help debunk it. 

Look around the internet, you'll find plenty.

How does believing in Jesus perpetuate power to the anyone or give anyone money may I ask? Assuming all I said was untrue (it's not) about God working within you through the holy spirit once you belive, doesn't that mean that you'll just be the same old shmo that doesn't care atall about this stuff? If that is the case, I don't see how anyone would gain money or power, because people give. 

I agree certain Churches misuse the word of God and use it to further their own agenda (mainly the catholic church)but that doesn't make the word wrong or bad, it just means people are misusing it (just like how it's not knives faults people get stabbed).

Please stop mistaking the Catholic chruch for christianity. Christianity is only what the bible has to say to us. The catholic church is the devils version in full swing.

I could care less about things like the shroud of Turrin. I have explained to you already the reason I belive in Jesus. Also, unlike all your previously mentioned religons, christianity is once again only based on faith, as opposed to the other religons based completely on deeds and worship. 

It is easy enough to make movies with scary images and bring forth wild conculsions based on wrong facts with some scary music in the background. 

Also, when Christianity was first started believes were being persecuted and killed for thier faith. I fail to see how that was supposed to bring about power and control over the world. It just so happens when the word spread, the devil was able to seep in due to deveation from faith, which results in what you misconcieve christianity to be.

I understand that you can choose to belive whatever you want, and I in no way am here to force you to do otherwise, I was just saying what I felt needed to be voiced.

Also, sorry to the mods for side tracking the thread.

God Bless


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

O my!... I start this most ridiculous of threads, go beddy byes, wake up... and behold, bless the lord, Jesus loves you... the thread is alive and well and providing Soojooko with plenty lol over morning coffee.

God bless MMA forum. God bless religious ridicule. God bless the feckwit who wrote this nonsense to begin with.

Thanks all for making my Monday morning! 


Do I have an opinion? Yes. I think, if god exists, he would be pretty good at blowjobs and making chocolate spongecake. Thats what we believe in the Church of the Perverted Fat Feckers. Anybody disagrees, will burn in hell forever... apart from cute girlies... and Chael Sonnen.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

isaeagle4031 said:


> Wow lots of opnions and misinterpratations of the bible.


How can the word of god be misentertaratable? You don't bible read good.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> How can the word of god be misentertaratable? You don't bible read good.


Misinterpreting the interpretations of God by a bunch of perverted blokes through history. Whats wrong with that??


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

If god shows his hate by turning you into a multi-million dollar company he should think about throwing some of that wrath my way.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

GKY said:


> I've watched Zeitgiest a few times, and I have to tell you it's nothing more than propoganda used to prey on peoples sense of fear, in an attempt to create anarchy. There are a bunch of flaws with what they say about Christianity done via clever word play.


You can tell me anything you want, but in order to be convincing and persuasive, you really need to cite specific pieces of evidence. 

You also don't have a source which documents the filmmaker's intentions. That's speculation on your part. In my opinion, this speculation is not credible since you can't read the filmmaker's mind. 

If there are a "bunch of flaws" you need to cite them specifically. Since you don't, I can only assume you have no evidence.



GKY said:


> http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread346668/pg1
> 
> That is just one of the sites that help debunk it.
> 
> Look around the internet, you'll find plenty.


I won't bother to post what you cited: I'll simply mention that that post has no citations or evidence either. 



GKY said:


> How does believing in Jesus perpetuate power to the anyone or give anyone money may I ask?


Religion is big business. Christianity operates just like any other form of business. They create a sense of fear and inadequacy, and offer you a product which they promise will "cure" you, but which ultimately only deepens your sense of inadequancy. You spend even more as a result. 

For example, a skin care company will tell you to focus on your pimple, and tell you you won't be loved unless you get rid of it by using their product. Once you do, they will get you to focus on your eyelashes, your lips, your skin in general, everything, to tell you all of it's inferior, getting you to buy even more. 

The church operates in the same way. They tell you you are an evil sinner who likes porno, fighting, online monkey sex and all other sorts of perversions which are going to send you straight to you know where. 

SO you go to church to "save" yourself. But at church, they remind you every week of all of the other "sins" you've committed making you even more dependent and feeling even more inferior and worthless. So, you take the bait, and you have to keep spending: after all, how else will the church continue to "save" other people?!?

Take a look at this story. The revenue from ONE CHURCH ALONE was *$30 MILLION DOLLARS IN ONE YEAR ALONE:** ALL OF IT TAX FREE!!!!*

http://www.christianpost.com/articl...ces-crystal-cathedral-to-make-cuts/index.html




GKY said:


> Assuming all I said was untrue (it's not) about God working within you through the holy spirit once you belive, doesn't that mean that you'll just be the same old shmo that doesn't care atall about this stuff? If that is the case, I don't see how anyone would gain money or power, because people give.


That's what I just said. The church is a business which creates a sense of inadequacy among the laiety so that THEY will give to the church. 



GKY said:


> I agree certain Churches misuse the word of God and use it to further their own agenda (mainly the catholic church)but that doesn't make the word wrong or bad, it just means people are misusing it (just like how it's not knives faults people get stabbed).
> 
> Please stop mistaking the Catholic chruch for christianity. Christianity is only what the bible has to say to us. The catholic church is the devils version in full swing.


Yes, the abuses of the catholic church are the most notorious. 

But the example of outrageous wealth I gave above is not from the roman catholic church, but from one non catholic church in southern california. 




GKY said:


> I could care less about things like the shroud of Turrin. I have explained to you already the reason I belive in Jesus. Also, unlike all your previously mentioned religons, christianity is once again only based on faith, as opposed to the other religons based completely on deeds and worship.
> 
> It is easy enough to make movies with scary images and bring forth wild conculsions based on wrong facts with some scary music in the background.


Which facts in the documentary do you dispute? As I have asked you many times before, you need to be SPECIFIC about the pieces of evidence and/or their interpretation in order to advance your claims. Otherwise, they are baseless. 

Are you disputing the identical birth dates and identical metaphors used across a dozen pagan religions as well as christianity? No, you are not. You are not disputing anything in particular... 

....and the music has no bearing on the validity of the historical evidence or it's interpretation. 




GKY said:


> Also, when Christianity was first started believes were being persecuted and killed for thier faith. I fail to see how that was supposed to bring about power and control over the world. It just so happens when the word spread, the devil was able to seep in due to deveation from faith, which results in what you misconcieve christianity to be.
> 
> I understand that you can choose to belive whatever you want, and I in no way am here to force you to do otherwise, I was just saying what I felt needed to be voiced.
> 
> ...


Again, it's clear to me that you have not done your research. I already cited Christ Conspiracy and I strongly urge you to read it.

There are multiple sources I can recommend in addition, sir.

The claims of christian martyrdom, which are already extremely suspect *since they are claims made by christians themselves primarily for the purpose of proselytizing,* are easily exposed as being, shall we say, slightly exaggerated.

For example, the US government claims that it was the subject of a "sneak attack" by the Japanese. That is such a crock I won't even go into it here.

The point is, do some research and reading from INDEPENDENT sources. That is, read the research of people who are NOT INVESTED in promoting christianity when you investigate claims of Christian martyrdom.

Like I told kantowrestler, god gave you a brain. Now use it!


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

Ya know, when people don't believe in god I just have 1 short answer to prove god exists.

Think of Israel and the jews as God's proof. Why? It was written well before it ever happened, that Israel as a nation would cease to be, and be broken up all throughout the world for not obeying his word. And what happened in human history? The jews were seperated from their homeland and became slaves and whatnot.

But there is where it gets interesting. It was written that Israel would return as a nation to it's full glory in the promised land in the latter years. What does history tell us? back in 1948, in 1 day, Israel became a nation again. May 14th (I believe.. or 15th) 1948.

So, it was written well over 2500 years ago that Israel would cease to be a nation and be brought into captivity, only to be saved and brought back to it's promised land with the original people and language and culture.

Israel is the only country in the history of mankind to be totally destroyed and exist no more, and 2000 years along return in full to their original location with the same desendants. 

And why? "So that you may know I am the lord" says god.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Are you serious, man.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

SpoKen said:


> Ya know, when people don't believe in god I just have 1 short answer to prove god exists.
> 
> Think of Israel and the jews as God's proof. Why? It was written well before it ever happened, that Israel as a nation would cease to be, and be broken up all throughout the world for not obeying his word. And what happened in human history? The jews were seperated from their homeland and became slaves and whatnot.
> 
> ...


Meh.... lucky bet.








... just in case.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

SpoKen said:


> Ya know, when people don't believe in god I just have 1 short answer to prove god exists.
> 
> Think of Israel and the jews as God's proof. Why? It was written well before it ever happened, that Israel as a nation would cease to be, and be broken up all throughout the world for not obeying his word. And what happened in human history? The jews were seperated from their homeland and became slaves and whatnot.
> 
> ...


Do you realize what can happen in 2000 years? Think about what has happened in the last 100 years. World wars, planes, tanks, phones, computers, interenet, being able to travel and communicate throughout the entire world in seconds (online) or hours (flight). Even in the last 10 years, so much has happened.

If I were to say to you right now, that America will stop existing someday, then be reborn again, there's a fairly high chance that in an unlimited amount of time (no date given), america will have been taken over, destroyed, and taken back by people, and reclaimed "America".

Now, if it was said that on date X it would be destoryed, and on date Y it would be reclaimed, I might be impressed. It isn't though, it's just a random satement that, after 2,000 + years time, came true.

It doesn't "prove" that god exists, in any way shape or form, nore does it impress, because it's extremely vauge in that it gives no time slot. 

I could write down pretty much anything, and give no time slot when it's going to happen, and I can almost promise you, that at some point in the future, it will happen, be it 50 years, or 2500+ years.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

A random statement made 2000 years ago about 1 particular nation that came true down to every last detail?

Also, take into context how small Israel is, and how limited the technology was 2000 years ago.

Added: there is waaaaaay more detail in the bible about the prophecy of Israel, it is very detailed and all of it happened exactly the way it was written down. That was just the short version.

The bible talks about everything.. even nuclear weapons.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

SpoKen said:


> Ya know, when people don't believe in god I just have 1 short answer to prove god exists.
> 
> Think of Israel and the jews as God's proof. Why? It was written well before it ever happened, that Israel as a nation would cease to be, and be broken up all throughout the world for not obeying his word. And what happened in human history? The jews were seperated from their homeland and became slaves and whatnot.
> 
> ...


Is this what you're referring to?



> Surely I will take the children of Israel
> 
> from among the nations,
> 
> ...


Do you honestly think God's intentions for Israel was to be re-established by military force, terrorism, and the expense of the thousands of people living there? I certainly don't.

Many of the Biblical prophecies mention events that have occurred several times in antiquity and even occur today. For example, nobody would call me a psychic if I accurately "predicted" a military coup to occur somewhere in Latin America in the next 10 years or if I accurately "predicted" that a hurricane would hit the Carribean or Gulf of Mexico.

Similarly, there has been a continual repition of certain events in the Middle East like wars involving major powers like Egypt, Persia (Iran) or Babylon (Iraq.) Israel, being small nation located amongst these major powers has continually been in conflict with them.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

I like Portland. 



SpoKen said:


> A random statement made 2000 years ago about 1 particular nation that came true down to every last detail?
> 
> Also, take into context how small Israel is, and how limited the technology was 2000 years ago.
> 
> ...


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

Awwww you guys caught me without my bible, I'd offer a slew of prophecy to you guys, but I can't.

As for these things happening more than once? No, none of bible prophecy has happened more than once. Some similar events sure, but there is always a few things different than what happens in the bible.

1 thing I notice is that of all the religions out there, people try really hard to disprove Christianity rather than any of the other ones.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

So... I say, some time, in the not to distant future, but quite distant, maybe... Soojooko will be reborn... as a king, with 48 wives, fantastic BJJ skills and a dragon to protect him.... O and a much larger knob as well please.

Make it so, god spirit juju man thing.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

SpoKen said:


> A random statement made 2000 years ago about 1 particular nation that came true down to every last detail?
> 
> Also, take into context how small Israel is, and how limited the technology was 2000 years ago.


It's not impressive, because of the unlmited time limit.



> In the year 1999, in the seventh month,
> from the sky will come the great King of Terror,
> bringing back to life the great King of the Mongols.
> Before and after, Mars to reign by good fortune.
> ...


That's a quote from Nostradamus. He pretty much predicts the 9/11 attack. In fact, his prediction of this is far more impressive than "God's", given that he left a date and the date was close.

He also states that the world will end in 2012, does this mean the world is going to come to an end two years from now?

Most people believe that it's sure luck, sure and pure luck that anything he's said has come true. Even those who believe in God, find him crazy. Why would they do that? Well, cause he's only man, not a "God", thus, he must just be lucky.

The fact is, when you make a statement, and give it an unlimited amount of time like the one you presented, it's not impressive becasue anything can happen with an unlimited amount of time, as man has come up with even more accurate predictions in the past than that one.

EDIT - I'm pulling myself out of the debate, cause you and I both know that the athiest vs. thiest debate can never be agreed upon lol. 

I love you.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

_"In the year 1999, in the seventh month,
from the sky will come the great King of Terror,
bringing back to life the great King of the Mongols.
Before and after, Mars to reign by good fortune.

Earth-shaking fire from the center of the earth.
will cause the towers around the New City to shake,
Two great rocks for a long time will make war,
And then Arethusa (a ship) will color a new river red"_


Dude, you really need to brush up on your reading skills.

First off, the year is wrong. 

Second, the month is wrong. 

Third, there was no f#cking king involved

And fourth, who the f#ck knows what the Mars reference is all about. 

Fifth, the fire was thousands of feet in the sky, from an airplane. 

Sixth, towers shake all the time. This is because of earthquakes. 

Seventh, New City is not the same as New York City. You could claim it refers to New England, or New Jersey, or New-ark, or twist it around in some other b.s. fashion. 

Eighth, I don't know of any rocks in history that have made war. 

Ninth, the US didn't start a war, it invaded Iraq. 

Tenth, the war in the middle east is primarily an urban war, not a naval battle, you idiot! 

Did I tell you how much I like Portland?


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I'd give you answers, but I've already pulled out of the debate before you posted this. It's absolutely impossible to convince anyone who believes in a God that it is all in the mind, and not real.

It is really pointless.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

No worries. I'll buy you a beer in Portland.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> _"In the year 1999, in the seventh month,
> from the sky will come the great King of Terror,
> bringing back to life the great King of the Mongols.
> Before and after, Mars to reign by good fortune.
> ...



Mars is the king of war.. Martial means acts of war. etc.

Is Portland where they make Ports? How do they do that? If I wanted a port in my garden, what's the smallest size you do? Will it fit many boats? How on earth do you deliver and install a port? Will it arrive like a flat pack? Ikea styles?


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

> No worries. I'll buy you a beer in Portland.


I don't drink beer.

I'm a man, I drink bear blood and appletinis.

As for the God vs. no god debate, I really learned my lesson long, long, long ago to not get into such a debate, but it's in the AM right now, and I wasn't thinking properly.

Bear blood and appletinis on the house, chaps.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

M.C said:


> I don't drink beer.
> 
> I'm a man, I drink bear blood, and appletinis.
> 
> ...



* ***** *

...

* gulp *

...

Jesus fecking christ Carson... that's delicious. Anything this divine is conclusive proof indeed of a god... no?


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

michelangelo said:


> _"In the year 1999, in the seventh month,
> from the sky will come the great King of Terror,
> bringing back to life the great King of the Mongols.
> Before and after, Mars to reign by good fortune.
> ...


I spent a lot of time working flight OPS in Op Iraqi Freedom/Enduring Freedom from an aircraft carrier, we did bomb the living $hit out of them on a daily basis. The US casualties were on the ground, but I'm fairly certain the US/joint Navy and Air Force had a lot more kills, first line of offense - not that I'm proud of it. If you want to talk numbers precision air strikes and artillery did most of the killing on the US/Joint Forces part.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Given how many pages this thread has gone, i would say it is time for a religion/politics sub-forum. not my cup of tea but a few others have been asking for it.


also jesus was black.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> _"In the year 1999, in the seventh month,
> from the sky will come the great King of Terror,
> bringing back to life the great King of the Mongols.
> Before and after, Mars to reign by good fortune.
> ...


Bolded = me.

I'm not saying the prediction is perfect, or if he even did predict 9/11. I'm just explaining the parts you obviously didn't understand.

Also, I'm with M.C. The No God vs God debate is pretty pointless, it normally gets out of hand and will never conclude.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

....lets just get Matt Huges here and he will clear all this shit up right away.
He would ground and pound this child molestor looking guy into submission and then tell him it was gods will


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

Love you too MC 

These debates lead nowhere although it is fun to discuss.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

mmaswe82 said:


> ....lets just get Matt Huges here and he will clear all this shit up right away.
> He would ground and pound this child molestor looking guy into submission and then tell him it was gods will


Ha, i forgot that matt hughes was christian.....god, him reading the bible to the fighters was embarrassing.


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

I laughed so hard when a Protestant called Catholicism the work of the devil.

I thought I was trapped back in the 1700s again. Everyone knows the only thing more phony than Christianity(Catholicism), is Protestantism.

Somewhere in the afterlife Rabbi Yeshua shakes his head at you all.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

TLC said:


> I laughed so hard when a Protestant called Catholicism the work of the devil.
> 
> I thought I was trapped back in the 1700s again. Everyone knows the only thing more phony than Christianity(Catholicism), is Protestantism.
> 
> Somewhere in the afterlife Rabbi Yeshua shakes his head at you all.


I don't know about that... Protestants don't believe in immaculate conception. Sounds incredibly less stupid to me.


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> I don't know about that... Protestants don't believe in immaculate conception. Sounds incredibly less stupid to me.


Yes, they do.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

TLC said:


> Yes, they do.


As far as I know only Lutheran-Protestants believe in it.


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

Well you know wrong....


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## Couchwarrior (Jul 13, 2007)

Of course god hates the UFC, it's run by an atheist.:thumb02:

In all seriousness, I can't imagine the degree of megalomania you have to suffer from in order to actually think that you, if there is a god, actually might have the slightest clue about what it likes or doesn't like. And the gullibility required in order to actually trust someone who claims he knows it, has to be just as extreme.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

okay, everyone knows im an atheist but seeing as how so many of you guys are as well I wanna pretend to be christian for the day and give spoken and others some back up.


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## GKY (Jun 3, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> You can tell me anything you want, but in order to be convincing and persuasive, you really need to cite specific pieces of evidence.
> 
> You also don't have a source which documents the filmmaker's intentions. That's speculation on your part. In my opinion, this speculation is not credible since you can't read the filmmaker's mind.
> 
> ...


That site shows some of the things Zeigiest said was wrong. It says Jesus was born somewhere around April 10th the year 4 B.C
http://www.firmament.com/2000years/

This site refers the them not being Kings but rather Magi
http://www.gotquestions.org/three-wise-men.html

Read the bible yourself, Jesus never did say he was "christ" but rather always said son of man. There isn't really any arguing that point, just read the bible. However, he did refer to himself as one with the father (god) and the holy spirit, but never used the word christ. 

The whole not of a virgin thing is out of nowhere. Mary was a Virgin at conception. I know Zorastienism (sp?) had a simmilar story. Regardless that doesn't mean it isn't true.

I'm not going to watch that movie again, because frankly I didn't enjoy it the first 2 times and I'm not a big fan of fantasy movies. 

As for things like skin care, you've got it wrong. Because once again, those types of products and companies are asking you to buy their products and use them for prophet. Pure christianity (the bible) refutes the idea of church having any power over us. So saying my word is there just to propogate power and money is inaccurate when it has been clearly been said otherwise IN THE BIBLE. I don't think you get this. The Bible is the be all end all of christianity. Lots of people follow the church, but don't follow the bible. Doesn't mean the bible is wrong, it just means people aren't true christians. God desires us to allow him to guide us in our day to day lives (as seen in a few of the quotes I gave before), he doesn't make it madatory to go hear lectures about him in a building, because once again that is a deed and not faith. 

Also, refer back to the page I sent you about historical reference of Jesus, it also mentions some things about christian persecution.

I don't know why you are now attacking me personally about not using my brain or not doing my research. 

You actually have yet to show me Josepheus's writings were doctored, so please do that. Or do you expect me to just have faith that you're right because it doesn't seem right? If that is the case, than I am not the only one who chooses to believe, we just choose to believe different things. 

To be honest, I would rather we end this discussion now because it is clearly going nowhere. I have read and researched about people Jesus's exestance and the things about the *church *and nothing has been convincing. 

God Bless


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

HexRei said:


> I think he just knocked over some tables and drove the merchants out or whatever. Check this tho:
> 
> "Those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them- bring them over here and kill them in front of me." - Jesus.
> Luke 19:27
> ...


Talk about distorting and taking out of context. That quote is Jesus telling a story about *some old king* saying that about killing his enemies, not Jesus himself. 

Jesus made it abundantly clear that he did not espouse murder.



> 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
> 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, *Thou shalt do no murder*, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness


Neither him nor any of his apostles and followers at the time tried to kill or so much as hurt anyone even though they were heavily persecuted.

As far as MMA goes, I believe this guy is wrong, as the psalm refers to senseless wanton violence and bloodshed, i.e. unjust war, oppression, murder etc., not sport or self-defence. The same book of psalms is full of prayers to strengthen warriors and help in defence etc. 

But apparently one guy with some inaccurate interpretations and strong views one disagrees with is enough to start a thread full of angsty atheist bitching and lame photoshops trashing religion. Wow what else is new on the internet. Whatever happened to live and let live.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> But apparently one guy with some inaccurate interpretations and strong views one disagrees with is enough to start a thread full of angsty atheist bitching and lame photoshops trashing religion...


... and gold belt comedy.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> http://www.bpnews.net/BPFirstPerson.asp?ID=33627
> 
> 
> 
> ...



After 5 seconds of reading this, all i was thinking was this:


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> 1. Religion is big business. Christianity operates just like any other form of business. They create a sense of fear and inadequacy, and offer you a product which they promise will "cure" you, but which ultimately only deepens your sense of inadequancy. You spend even more as a result.
> 
> For example, a skin care company will tell you to focus on your pimple, and tell you you won't be loved unless you get rid of it by using their product. Once you do, they will get you to focus on your eyelashes, your lips, your skin in general, everything, to tell you all of it's inferior, getting you to buy even more.
> 
> ...


1. So you like looking at the evils of the church? Why not look at what its got right? Because of the church, people have some semblance of a moral compass. You also give no credit to the millions if not billions of dollars churches around the world spend on charity and helping others. Who runs your local soup kitchen? Ever hear of something called life ministries? Or a group of people volunteer at Christmas to give presents to children who live in poverty? I think you’re going to run into the church pretty often.

We as Christians are commanded not to judge. We accept and love others, as instructed by our lord and savior, Jesus Christ. That is not to say we are perfect, but merely sinners who have found salvation through the love of the sacrifice of or lord. You say we wish to make others feel “inferior” but we really want to help others improve themselves and their quality of life. We come as friends, not as superiors. 

2. I see no reason to debate such historical evidence. Clearly other religions had heard of the prophecies and decided to adapt them from the early works of the church to their own religions. That or they could even be more proof of these miraculous works, but in a distorted way. 

As for Christian martyrdom I’d recommend reading “jesus freaks” and “jesus freaks 2” these books have details and facts of many Christian martyrs who died for their faith. 

He gave us both brains and both hearts, clearly I am the only one using both. 



MikeHawk said:


> Do you honestly think God's intentions for Israel was to be re-established by military force, terrorism, and the expense of the thousands of people living there? I certainly don't.
> 
> Many of the Biblical prophecies mention events that have occurred several times in antiquity and even occur today. For example, nobody would call me a psychic if I accurately "predicted" a military coup to occur somewhere in Latin America in the next 10 years or if I accurately "predicted" that a hurricane would hit the Carribean or Gulf of Mexico.
> 
> Similarly, there has been a continual repition of certain events in the Middle East like wars involving major powers like Egypt, Persia (Iran) or Babylon (Iraq.) Israel, being small nation located amongst these major powers has continually been in conflict with them.


Absolutely! In the old testament Israel was constantly attacked and lost. Only to be retaken by the newly re-focused and holy warriors of god. 

And there are several prophecies that have come full circle. For instance in Isaiah 7:14, the prophet Isaiah addresses the "house of David," meaning the family and descendants of King David, and speaks of a virgin being pregnant with a child, and giving birth to the child. Isaiah says this in the context of it being a sign from God. He also says that the child would be referred to as "Immanuel," which means, "God with us."

The New Testament books of Matthew and Luke record details involving the birth of Jesus, who was born about 700 years after the time of Isaiah, saying that he was born of the virgin Mary and is the Son of God. Because he is the Son of God, Jesus literally can be referred to as "God with us."

So far we have evidence of the birth of Christ being prophesized and happening. But more than that the prophecies from in Psalm 41:9, King David wrote a prayer asking for mercy in his last days. In this prayer, which Christians acknowledge as being inspired by God, David wrote about a betrayal at the hand of a close friend with whom he had shared bread. In Zechariah it’s also prophesized that the son of God would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver. 

So you can look at some vague prophesies and argue semantics whether or not it was “accurate enough” for you. Instead of realizing its all part of God’s will and seeing these other prophecies which are spot on even for your ridiculous criteria of a book that is up to thousands of years old.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Not all gods hate the ufc.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

oldfan said:


> Not all gods hate the ufc.


Hehe! Thanks man.  I was getting concerned there... The thick dark stench of seriousness is slowly engulfing my ridiculous thread. I fear it shan't be long before it'll die of a massive humour malfunction attack.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

wanting to pretend to be a christian and no one is playing ball


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

nostradamus had many many many predections that were just freaky, the dude was good, i dont believe in this crap but he had some amazing guesses

though i do agree the 9/11 one was weak, but thats only one of them, brush up on some other predictions of his its impressive, more impressive than the bible, does that mean he has powers? i dont think so, but o well

let me just say this, if some of you actually believe that things are already planned from the beginning, and fate is real, then i hope you realize that the heaven and hell thing, good vs evil doesnt exist...think about that for a while:thumb02:


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

Christians that refuse to acknowledge there is no real historical evidence of the existence of Jesus and the coincidence that he lived the exact same life as an Egyptian God Horus, baffle me.

Jesus is the Sun. You are still worshipping the Sun, pretending it is a man.

I cant tolerate such blind ignorance myself. Christians used to kill non Christians, Sun worshippers and heathens, witches and "enemies of the Church". Ppl who often worshipped the same thing these Christians are worshipping, The Sun.

Brain washed masses. Somewhat intelligent monkeys is truely all we are. We are easily controlled and brainwashed by fake goverments and fake religions. The illusion of choice (democracy) and the illusion of peace (religion), which bring us neither choice, freedom or peace.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> Christians that refuse to acknowledge there is no real historical evidence of the existence of Jesus and the coincidence that he lived the exact same life as an Egyptian God Horus, baffle me.
> 
> Jesus is the Sun. You are still worshipping the Sun, pretending it is a man.
> 
> ...


Jeez...the devil hid all the reams of documentation recorded during Jesus' life while he was busy burying dinosaur bones.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Ok, I don't know what you guys are talking about but there is historical evidence for Christ as well as alot of other things that happened in the Bible!raise01:


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Let's be serious for moment please.

Not these superhero guys but, the real gods of Greek and Norse mythology, who wins under mma rules Thor or Herc?

I say Hercules. Thor is a striker, his whole Viking style of hit hard, hit fast, take the women, would not match up well with hercules grappling skill. I see Herc pushing him into the cage and getting a greco-roman style take down. From there, there's really nowhere for Thor to go but Valhalla.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> Christians that refuse to acknowledge there is no real historical evidence of the existence of Jesus and the coincidence that he lived the exact same life as an Egyptian God Horus, baffle me.
> 
> Jesus is the Sun. You are still worshipping the Sun, pretending it is a man.
> 
> ...


Well sir, I must disagree. There is a man by the name of josephus. Allow me to tell you a little about him. He was a historian, a jewish historian in the first century AD to be precise. This is some evidence I would like to introduce as to the existence of jesus christ.

1. "Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day." 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus


You bring up past things our religion has done in dark times, when such things were normal. Well what about atheists? You look down on us as if we are the only ones. What about your hitler? Stalin? Mao Ze-Dong? Hideki Tojo? Pol Pot? And all of them in modern times. What christian can you call a mass murder in the past 100 years? Here i've named the top 5 mass murderers of all time.. all of which are/were atheists.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

That is a good question. You have the Greek Demi-God in Hercules and you have the Norse God in Thor. I would automatically say that Thor has the advantage with his lightning hammer. However if it were a pure strength fight with MMA then it would probably be Hercules cause he has the advantage of Greek wrestling and the like!:thumbsup:


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

thats fine, worship a sun God not believing its a Sun god. I dont really care.

I am actually born Jewish. I know the lies inside out.

Anyways, one historian. Wow. Great "proof". You do realize how many roman, jewish and arab historians were around that area during those times??

9. 9 highly respected ones. Nobody mentions this Jesus character.

Yet some Jewish historian does?? Then, who has kept these Jewish historians records and verified them?? 

Oh, the Catholic Church.

Yea, they are reliable source of info and history.

Anyways, i dont want some long debate. If worshipping the sun makes you happy, so be it. Aslong as you are kind to others i guess it cant be that bad. Ignoring your own history is the key to being a good Christian. Quote some verses and ignore reality.

Anyways, Horus or Jesus or whatever you want to call the Sun is the source of life and a source of power.

BTW, as a "historian" this guy really took a bigtime pro jesus bias and alot of miralces and great things happened for the Jews in his writings....



> Flavius Josephus was a Jewish priest at the time of the Jewish Revolt of A.D. 66. He was captured by the Romans, imprisoned, set free and then retired to Rome where he wrote a history of the Jewish Revolt called the "Jewish War." Later he wrote "Antiquities" as a history of the Jews. It is in Antiquities that he mentions Christ. The mention is called the Testimonium Flavianum (Ant. 18.63-64; see below). Josephus was born in Jerusalem around 37 A.D. He died around the year 101.
> 
> The problem with the copies of Antiquities is that they appear to have been rewritten in favor of Jesus and some say too favorable to have been written by a Jew. Add to this that the Christians were the ones who kept and made the copies of the Josephus documents throughout history and you have a shadow of doubt cast upon the quotes.
> 
> ...


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> Christians that refuse to acknowledge there is no real historical evidence of the existence of Jesus and the coincidence that he lived the exact same life as an Egyptian God Horus, baffle me.
> 
> Jesus is the Sun. You are still worshipping the Sun, pretending it is a man.
> 
> ...


Oh dude there is plenty of historical evidence. And do you really think millions if not billions of people would BLINDLY worship the same things without.. ya know.. making sure it was real or not?

Have you read any of the bible? Not only that, but read not with a literalistic mind but a spiritual mind?

You speak of brainwashing yet have you looked at the world around you? Do you know the origins of the All see eye, pyramids, and other satanic worship symbols that plague almost everything in the world around you?

Ever heard of the Hegelian Dialectic being used constantly on EVERY major news network to not inform the public, but to influence the public's opinion on things?

Want some proof on the Hegelian Dialectic? 10 years ago being openly gay was pretty destructive to your life. Now a days it's practically the norm. Why? Remember when the word homophobic got popular?

Think about muslims today. In 2001 you couldn't even pretend to be muslim without being persecuted. Now they're building a super mosque like what, 3 blocks away from the trade center ashes. What does the news do? They bring out the word islamophobe and saying we need to be tolerant.

Tolerance is cool, they can build their mosque, I really don't care. But don't preach tolerance if people are harassed for praying out in public.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

oldfan said:


> Let's be serious for moment please.
> 
> Not these superhero guys but, the real gods of Greek and Norse mythology, who wins under mma rules Thor or Herc?
> 
> I say Hercules. Thor is a striker, his whole Viking style of hit hard, hit fast, take the women, would not match up well with hercules grappling skill. I see Herc pushing him into the cage and getting a greco-roman style take down. From there, there's really nowhere for Thor to go but Valhalla.


I dunno... I imagine Thors hammer might be quite handy in the clinch. It looks compact enough. He could use it to smash Hercs ankles and knees whilst standing. I dont think Herc is gay enough to take it to the mat, so hes likely to keep it in upright and proper, in the clinch, like a real man... which'll only bring shattered knee of Thor with enough time. IMHO of course.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> thats fine, worship a sun God not believing its a Sun god. I dont really care.
> 
> I am actually born Jewish. I know the lies inside out.
> 
> ...


Btw I became a christian because I studied world history, not the other way around. There is PLENTY of historical evidence of Jesus, you just choose to ignore it. It's fine though, because one day every knee will bow and every tongue WILL confess, "Jesus is lord"

It's easy to find proof that jesus didn't live if the people you get your evidence from thinks the same things btw.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I'm guessing you have never heard of Lee Strobel and his "Case For..." books have you? He is a formerly athiest reporter for the Chicago Tribune who investigated Christianity after his wife became one. He looked over the evidence and guess what, he became a Christian. In fact, he has written several books on the subject, most notably The Case for Christ, The Case for Faith, and The Case for a Creator. Try to knock that one down!:thumbsup:


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

i didnt preach tolerance.

as i said, worship a Sun God and believe its real. The FACTS are there is no PROOF of Jesus existing. No proof of Moses or the Jews ever being in Egypt and being enslaved.

Jews are fabulous story tellers. They spun old babylonian and egyptian stories of Gods and put a new twist on them.

Your evident is alot of ppl believe in it?? HAHAHA.

alot of ppl believed in sun gods and most romans were pagans, so it was true back then?? wtf kind of "Evidence" is that??

some of the stuff actually happened. Floods and regimes, kings and such, and the stories were spun into spectatular fashion for generations and generations.

the funny thing is, the evidence of these stories, THE EXACT SAME STORIES, from Egyptian and Babylon Gods is easy to find.

You can read about the life of Moses, Jesus and Mary in much older religions. Why?? Or do you not accept this FACT??


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> That is a good question. You have the Greek Demi-God in Hercules and you have the Norse God in Thor. I would automatically say that Thor has the *advantage with his lightning hammer*. However if it were a pure strength fight with MMA then it would probably be Hercules cause he has the advantage of Greek wrestling and the like!:thumbsup:


No... this mma rules only but, you know thor's got thunder in his fists. This is a dangerous fight for Herc. Remember, as strong as he is, he's only a demi-god. While Thor's record is so impressive that no one even remembers the Norse god of war's name.

i can hear Rogan now, "Herc needs at a take down now mike, he can't stand in front of thor"


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

Explain to me this one simple thing.

Why is Jesus' life the exact same as Horus??

i mean exactly. Born to a virgin, 12 disciplines, he was the light and the lamb of God, died only to resurrected 3 days later and even more. 

Its the story of the sun, thats why. The sun dies during winter solis and comes back.

Why was his birthday changed to Dec 25th?? Pagan beliefs, thats why.

Who are the 3 wise men?? Stars.

its all pretty simple and pretty easy to see thru. Its a nice fairytale and if it keeps you warm inside at night, so be it.

As far as bowing down to the tooth fairy and exclaiming his name lol. I love when Christians say these type of things.

"if you dont believe like me, you will burn in hell" 

o rly?? LOL. Learn about your own religion, the things you have done to sustain it, the lies you have told, the ppl you have killed, numbering in the MILLIONS.

You talk about Hitler and others. LOL. The crusades, witchhunts, "enemies of the church" etc who have been murdered over history make Hitler look like a chump.

Kept supporting corrupt regimes full of corrupt ppl.

Pedophiles, tax cheats, hyprocrites and liars. Hiding behind a fairytale and forgiveness we cant get unless we pay 9.99 for a pic of John Paul the 2nd and a baptism.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Ok, have you ever seen the DVD "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed"? That is another source you should look into in addition to the "Case For..." books. If you look at the evidence and still don't believe that is one thing. But if you blatently refuse to look at the evidence that is another. That means you want to remain in your ignorance. If you want to do that then thats ok as well, but don't say something doesn't exist if you haven't looked at the evidence for it, which I have!:thumbsdown:


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

My evidence isn't because a lot of people believe in it. It's because I studied world history that I became a christian. And the effects of god in my life were pretty drastic in terms of how fast blessings come my way.

It's funny though, the whole egyptian thing with babylon gods and all of that... its talked about in the bible as false teachings.

I'll try and find a video linking Horus to Jesus, because there are a few similarites, but there are A LOT of things different Jesus and made up Horus. You claim they are the exact same, but they aren't. They aren't the same.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> thats fine, worship a sun God not believing its a Sun god. I dont really care.
> 
> I am actually born Jewish. I know the lies inside out.
> 
> ...


Oh if you wanted more reliable sources, all you had to do was ask. 

As the general consensus:

"While scholars draw a distinction between the Jesus of history and the figure of religious faith, the vast majority of scholars who specialize in the historicity of Jesus argue that his existence as a historical figure can be established using documentary and other evidence"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

Now that you have bitten on my hook. I will bring about Tacitus. In case you are not familiar, he is arguably the greatest roman historian of the time.

Here is a full quote of the cite of our concern, from Annals 15.44. Jesus and the Christians are mentioned in an account of how the Emperor Nero went after Christians in order to draw attention away from himself after Rome's fire of 64 AD:

"But not all the relief that could come from man, not all the bounties that the prince could bestow, nor all the atonements which could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to suppress the rumor, he falsely charged with the guilt, and punished Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind."

http://www.tektonics.org/jesusexist/tacitus.html 

So to sum it all up: Tacitus the Roman Historian refers to Him, as does Phlegon in reference to the darkness at the time of the crucifixion. Josephus, the Jewish historian also refers to a number of Gospel details and certainly assumes the existence of Jesus himself. 

Of course you don't want to debate with me, you'd lose, badly. It seems you only have quips and no substance.

( you can do better  )


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

It's only 10 minutes long. LINK if you can't see it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD40xi9KdqE


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

its not just Horus, he has bits and pieces of his life stolen from many older religions and many religous figures.

such as.

Krishna, Buddha, Horus, Zoroaster, Mithras, Attis, Dionysus and a few other crucified deities.

Being born a virgin on the 25th, dying on the cross and coming back 3 days later isnt some new story. Its very old.

All of his stories are just retold stories. He is the sum of many religions parts.

The greatest story ever told. Jews did it!! Im proud!! We are still doing it in Hollywood, only ppl wont find Terminator 100 years from now and think its real......

well, maybe the crystalids was right  maybe they would.

dont talk nonsense, most of those historians have been proven false,

Apollonius Persius
Appian Petronius
Arrian Phaedrus
Aulus Gellius Philo-Judaeus
Columella Phlegon
Damis Pliny the Elder
Dio Chrysostom Pliny the Younger
Dion Pruseus Plutarch
Epictetus Pompon Mela
Favorinus Ptolemy
Florus Lucius Quintilian
Hermogones Quintius Curtius
Josephus Seneca
Justus of Tiberius Silius Italicus
Juvenal Statius
Lucanus Suetonius
Lucian Tacitus
Lysias Theon of Smyran
Martial Valerius Flaccus
Paterculus Valerius Maximus
Pausanias

historians alive and around that area in Jesus' time.

No accounts by any?? oh. Weird for the most awe inspiring man in the history of the world.

Yet, aside from two FORGED passages in the works of a Jewish writer mentioned above, and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers, there isn't ANY mention of Jesus Christ. At all. Consider: 
"Philo was born before the beginning of the Christian era, and lived until long after the reputed death of Christ. He wrote an account of the Jews covering the entire time that Christ is said to have existed on earth. He was living in or near Jerusalem when Christ's miraculous birth and the Herodian massacred occurred. He was there when Christ made his triumphal entry into Jerusalem. He was there when the crucifixion with its attendant earthquake, supernatural darkness, and resurrection of the dead took place -- when Christ himself rose from the dead, and in the rpesence of many witnesses ascended into heaven. 
"These marvelous events which must have filled the world with amazement, had they really occurred, we unknown to him. It was Philo who developed the doctrine of the Logos, or Word, and although this Word incarnate dwelt in that very land and in the presence of multitudes revealed himself and demonstrated his divine powers, Philo saw it not. 

"Justus of Tiberius was a native of Christ's own country, Galilee. He wrote a history covering this time of Christ's reputed existence. This work has perished, but Photius, a Christian scholar and critic of the ninth century, who was acquainted with it, says: 'He (Justus) makes not the least mention of the appearances of Christ, of what things happened to him, or of the wonderful works that he did' (Photius' Bibliotheca, code 33). 

"Josephus: Late in the first century, Josephus wrote his celebrated work, _The_Antiquities_of_the_Jews_, giving a history of his race from the earliest ages down to his own time. Modern versions of this work contain the following passage: 

"'Now there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works; a teacher of such men as received the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was (the) Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day. (Book XVIII, Chapter iii, Section 3).' 
"For nearly sixteen hundred years Christians have been citing this passage as a testimonial, not merely to the historical existence, but to the divine character of Jesus Christ. And yet a ranker forgery was never penned. 
"Its language is Christian. Every line proclaims it the work of a Christian writer. 'If it be lawful to call him a man.' 'He was the Christ.' 'He appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.' 

"These are the words of a Christian, a believer in the divinity of Christ. Josephus was a Jew, a devout believer in the Jewish faith -- the last man in the world to acknowledge the divinity of Christ. The inconsistency of this evidence was early recognized, and Abrose, writing in the generation succeeding its first appearance (360 A.D.), offers the following explanation, which only a theologican could frame: 

"'If the Jews do not believe us, let them, at least, believe their own writers. Josephus, whom they esteem a great man, hath said this, and yet hath he spoken truth after such a manner; and so far was his mind wandered from the right way, that even he was not a believer as to what he himself said; but thus he spake, in order to deliver historical truth, because he thought it not lawful for him to deceive, while yet he was no believer, because of the hardness of his heart, and his perfidious intentiion.' 
"Its brevity disproves its authenticity. Josephus' work is voluminous and exhaustive. It comprises twenty books. Whole pages are devoted to petty robbers and obscure seditious leaders. Nearly fourty chapters are devoted to the life of a single king. Yet this remarkable being, the greatest product of his race, a being of whom the prophets foretold ten thousand wonderful things, a being greater than any earthly king, is dismissed with a dozen lines." 
-- The Christ, by John E. Remsburg, reprinted by Prometheus Books, New York, 1994, pages 171-3.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

Jesus wasn't born dec 25th, we celebrate his birthday then is all.

You should watch the entire video I posted, it talks about everything your talking about.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

just the fact u are bringing up FORGED documents as FACT, proves how weak the arguement is in the 1st place.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

SpoKen said:


> Jesus wasn't born dec 25th, we celebrate his birthday then is all.


 why?? do u know the reason??


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Christianity is simply *ancient pagan superstitition*, slightly altered to make it look new. 

It's like an old Yugo being updated with a flashy red paint job and shiny plastic hubcaps. The new paint and fake dubs don't make it something new: it's still a Yugo!

*In christianity, the christ sacrifice (how gruesome is that btw) is simply ancient superstitious ritual of sacrificing a goat or a lamb* jazzed up for a new western european audience, with a human substituted for a goat. Hence the term "scapegoat."

Second, if christianity wanted to save as many people as possible it's pretty silly to put a dude in a region of the world where he'd be speaking Aramaiac, rather than the much more widely spoken Latin or Greek. 

I mean, this is not some goofy inexperienced city planner working for government wages here. This is god we're talking about. He should have a better sense of how to maximize his target audience, eh?

---

Furthermore, there are no documents of any kind documenting a christ figure in the form of complete "gospels" prior to the 4th century AD. All of the supposedly canonical "gospels" were written AFTER the 4th century AD.

That means that the gospels, supposedly based upon eyewitness testimony AT THE TIME OF JESUS' ACTUAL "miracles," were written over 400 YEARS after his supposed death. Since most people can't even remember the shoes they wore a week ago, or what they had for lunch three days ago, it stands to reason that some distortion might have occurred after 400 YEARS. Especially since the dude in question probably never existed!

This might also help to explain why all of the gospels contradict one another. 

Even the *Catholic Enyclopaedia* acknowledges rampant fraud and forgery during the early days (post 4th century AD) of the emergence of christianity. The goal? To recruit members by telling fantastic (i.e., false) stories. 

In other words, christian historians themselves acknowledge rampant duplicity in order to establish "the faith."

It's been a scam all along. Even early worshipers knew that christianity was a joke and completely unbelievable: yet they chose to believe anyway. 

It's the same thing today: christians tell themselves: I can't believe such a thing could happen: but I have faith!


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> just the fact u are bringing up FORGED documents as FACT, proves how weak the arguement is in the 1st place.


Heh, I'm done here. No point in continuing. I threw my point out there, you choose to ignore it. It's completely fine by me :thumb02:


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> why?? do u know the reason??


I linked the video.. it talks about it there. If your not going to watch it then whats the point of continuing?


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah if you guys aren't going to at least look over the evidence then why are you going to keep saying it's false? You can only say something is false by looking at it and comparing it with other evidence in-depth, which you obviously aren't doing. SpoKen and I have brought up so many credible sources and you aren't even bothering to look them over. So how is this an intelligent conversation if you aren't doign things intelligently?


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

SpoKen said:


> I linked the video.. it talks about it there. If your not going to watch it then whats the point of continuing?


 i know the reason. They incorporated many Pagan beliefs into christianity to appease the masses. Same reason the sabbath was changed to Sunday, the day of the Sun.

Constantine wasnt Christian, he was Pagan, he had no choice by to change or lose his Empire. The tide was changing and he changed with it.

That book you find so sarced. Men choose what passages to put in..... and keep out.

Men decided, debated, much as we are, whether Jesus was a man or a God.

They had a vote on it. Thats how you got that book. Ppl decided what info to give you and what manner to give it to you in.

I know alot more than you give me credit for.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> why?? do u know the reason??


Yea, Constantine made it the 25th to appease both the pagan and christian religions. Because at the time the 25th of december was a highly celebrated holiday for the pagans, naturally when Constantine converted the empire to christianity it caused a little ruckus.

edit:



> i know the reason. They incorporated many Pagan beliefs into christianity to appease the masses. Same reason the sabbath was changed to Sunday, the day of the Sun.
> 
> Constantine wasnt Christian, he was Pagan, he had no choice by to change or lose his Empire. The tide was changing and he changed with it.
> 
> ...


Yep they decided what books to include in the new testament at the Council of Nycea. 

Men decided obviously... but thats why the bible is called "the inspired word of god".


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Yeah if you guys aren't going to at least look over the evidence then why are you going to keep saying it's false? You can only say something is false by looking at it and comparing it with other evidence in-depth, which you obviously aren't doing. SpoKen and I have brought up so many credible sources and you aren't even bothering to look them over. So how is this an intelligent conversation if you aren't doign things intelligently?


 read my quote, u are the ones ignoring.

I have long known about the 3 historians that mentioned jesus. and the FORGED docuements and fakes.

I showed factual proof of all the evidence of jesus ever written by historians.

for the greatest man of all time, he has about 12 lines??

and 20 other very credible historians in the region who make no mention of him.

the only one that makes big mention of him, happens to be a Jew, yet only writes 12 lines about him??

that guy would write 12 lines about a local robbery. thats how in depth his writings were. 

yet Jesus got 12 lines for changing the world as we know it??

and he wasnt written about again, til 50 years after his death??

and when he is 1st written about, its in a Greek God mythical sense, then finally turned into a real man.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

xeberus said:


> Yea, Constantine made it the 25th to appease both the pagan and christian religions. Because at the time the 25th of december was a highly celebrated holiday for the pagans, naturally when Constantine converted the empire to christianity it caused a little ruckus.


 exactly, the man who brought the bible to fruittion was not even a christian himself.

yet you trust what he and his ppl DECIDED to put in the bible??

lol. fun stuff.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

anyways, way too many holes in your story guys. i dont want to make a bunch of enemies.

i enjoyed the discussion, thx 4 being civil. no harm done both ways i hope.

religion and politics.... i shoulda known


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> i know the reason. They incorporated many Pagan beliefs into christianity to appease the masses. Same reason the sabbath was changed to Sunday, the day of the Sun.
> 
> Constantine wasnt Christian, he was Pagan, he had no choice by to change or lose his Empire. The tide was changing and he changed with it.
> 
> ...


I'll bite one last time.

Christmas was made by christians to have a christian holiday during that time of year. Jesus was born between late spring and early summer. 

The Sabbath, according to the bible, can be ANY DAY, it can be saturday or sunday, or wednesday. I can't quote the verse exactly right now, but it along the lines of "don't convict a man for the day he chooses his sabbath" The reason why he says this is because he understand that some people have to work or be busy all days of the week.

The catholics are in the bible, and for the most part it isn't good. You have to understand the differences between christians and catholics.

Like, they have the pope as their mediator between god and them, when it's clearly advised that only Jesus can take up that role.

The bible also talks about people adding verses and taking them out. The great thing about Christianity is the holy spirit which gives us a discerning eye. Basically meaning we can tell if something isn't supposed to be there or not.

I know a lot more than you give me credit for :thumb02:


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Actually the sabbath was changed to Sunday because that is the day that Jesus rose from the dead. Also the reason why all those pagan traditions were incorporated into Christianiy were to redeem them just like Christ has redeemed all those who believe in him. By the way if you believe in the novel the DaVinci Code, then what you are saying about Constantine is correct, it's not true history though. By the way, he became a Christian at 41 years old and reigned for another 24 years!:thumbsup:


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> exactly, the man who brought the bible to fruittion was not even a christian himself.
> 
> yet you trust what he and his ppl DECIDED to put in the bible??
> 
> lol. fun stuff.


That is not exactly a fact. Its highly disputed whether or not constantine become a devout christian. 

other post edited to answer that 



E Lit Er Ate said:


> anyways, way too many holes in your story guys. i dont want to make a bunch of enemies.
> 
> i enjoyed the discussion, thx 4 being civil. no harm done both ways i hope.
> 
> religion and politics.... i shoulda known


Well many holes in every story of creation and the world around us. That includes science. 

Was a good time :thumb02:


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

You sir have committed the sin of the triple post and I am sure you shall soon receive evidence of a higher power on this sacred forum.raise01:raise01:


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

oldfan said:


> You sir have committed the sin of the triple post and I am sure you shall soon receive evidence of a higher power on this sacred forum.raise01:raise01:


I laughed at this, pretty funny.

But people are posting here so fast, I think I even double posted a few times. No harm.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

The video one of you linked to IS NOT disputing the claims of zeitgeist:

"while there may prove to be some validity to some of mr. joseph's claims, the jury is still out on most of his claims..."

Then the narrator states that the "conspiracy theory" of zeitgeist and others IS IN FACT COMPATIBLE WITH CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE OF REVELATIONS. In other words, the narrator ACCEPTS the fundamental claims of zeitgeist, but reject the notion that christ myth was a forgery. 

Furthermore, *the narrator acknowledges that early christians LIED about the birthdate of christ in order to attract pagans to the "new" supposedly "true" and "actual" word of god!*

Why would christians have to lie in order to attract followers? And how hypocritical to lie to attract people to a supposedly "true" "gospel" of christ?!?

Because the supposed gospels were written 400 YEARS AFTER THE SUPPOSED DEATH OF JESUS!!!

Whoever linked the video should recognize AT THE VERY LEAST how hypocritical and idiotic it is for the narrator to try to debunk zeitgeist by acknowledging that the christians he attempts to defended are themselves scam artists!!!

*In other words, if you goofs had actually watched and listened to the very video you linked to, you would have recognized that the narrator actually acknowledges that christianity is established through active, open deception acknowledged by christians themselves!!!!

Here is a direct quote from the clip acknowledging active deception and lying by early christians:

"The Dec 25 date was used by early christians simply to purposely correspond with the winter celebrations of pagan gods and customs with the hope of christianizing these pagan beliefs during this time of year. This is a documented historical fact. Christians have never hidden this."

This is the EXACT and fundamental claim of Christ Conspiracy, i.e., that early christians adopted pagan superstitions in order to recruit followers. 

In other words, early christians LIED about christianity, and FABRICATED it's stories by adopting old superstitions, and did so without the slightest hesitation or ethical qualm. 

Christianity is a LIE. A christian himself told you so. *


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

SpoKen said:


> It's only 10 minutes long. LINK if you can't see it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD40xi9KdqE


See my last post. Your video narrator himself acknowledges that early christians actively fabricated stories in order to attract followers. 

Therefore, any religion which has followers who LIE in order to attract people to the "true" god is full of doo doo.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

What? No no no, we never claimed his birthday was dec. 25

The bible clearly says he wasn't born in december. Early christians didn't make the holiday to convert people, they made christmas for themselves to celebrate the birth of jesus when pagans were celebrating whatever they were celebrating.

It's like having a birthday party on saturday when your birthday was last tuesday.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Here's another moran who doesn't understand the history of his own church:

http://www.falsezeitgeist.com/

And I quote:

"Dec 25, they (zeitgeist) make a big deal of this, well first of all we don't believe that jesus was actually born on dec. 25. Now it happens to be a nice day to celebrate. Why? It's pretty dark out, it's cold. 

Might as well get together with family an' do something. OK and if we're going to celebrate the birth of our messiah, we only have 365 options, and since we don't know exactly, it happens that dec 25 is an ok date"

*It was probably more like in september, perhaps october, some people think a little bit more in the summer, the reality is, we don't know exactly when he was born, but we're pretty sure it wasn't Dec. 25" !!!!!!! *

In other words, this so-called "scholar" with a master's degree doesn't know jack about the birth date of jesus. 

ALL HE KNOWS IS THAT IT WASN'T DEC. 25TH!!!!!

This is such a laughable crock I almost hate to drop it on you. He has no idea, when jesus was born, but he KNOWS it wasn't Dec. 25. 

This is the type of stupidity that makes christians so entertaining.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> See my last post. Your video narrator himself acknowledges that early christians actively fabricated stories in order to attract followers.
> 
> Therefore, any religion which has followers who LIE in order to attract people to the "true" god is full of doo doo.


People are sinners. God is perfect.



> Here's another moran who doesn't understand the history of his own church:
> 
> http://www.falsezeitgeist.com/
> 
> ...


Just because some christians are idiots, doesn't make them wrong.


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

after dragging my eyes through ten pages, ill stay away from religious arguments and just say that the guy is way off in saying that the ufc should be looked down upon by people. if that's the case, include all forms of prizefighting while your at it.





























Jesus didn't tap.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

xeberus said:


> People are sinners. God is perfect.


Therefore, God in all of his perfection, sent his son to a region of the world to use a language that not many people spoke, rather than a language that many people spoke (greek or latin), in order to make life harder on his son (or himself). 

And then, god in all of his perfection, sacrificed his son (actually himself), but didn't actually sacrifice himself (since he was born again), in order to show his most loyal followers he was the true god.

Even though he didn't have any loyal followers documenting his deeds since jesus didn't exist, and since the so-called gospels were written more than 400 years after his supposed death (which wasn'† actually a death since god is immortal).

Yeah, this is all making perfect sense!



xeberus said:


> *Just because some christians are idiots...*


Yeah, you can stop there. I think you proved your point exactly.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> Actually the sabbath was changed to Sunday because that is the day that Jesus rose from the dead. Also the reason why all those pagan traditions were incorporated into Christianiy were to redeem them just like Christ has redeemed all those who believe in him. By the way if you believe in the novel the DaVinci Code, then what you are saying about Constantine is correct, it's not true history though. By the way, he became a Christian at 41 years old and reigned for another 24 years!:thumbsup:


You can't redeem people when you've lied about christianity in the first place. It's even more absurd to claim that you are trying to redeem people from their supposedly false beliefs when your own christian beliefs are admittedly the VERY SAME BELIEFS you are supposedly rescuing them from!


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> Therefore, God in all of his perfection, sent his son to a region of the world to use a language that not many people spoke, rather than a language that many people spoke (greek or latin), in order to make life harder on his son (or himself).
> 
> And then, god in all of his perfection, sacrificed his son (actually himself), but didn't actually sacrifice himself (since he was born again), in order to show his most loyal followers he was the true god.
> 
> ...


Yea, absolutely it'll never be heard by billions around the world or be the most produced book ever.. Wouldn't ever happen.. would take an act of God eh? 

Absolutely to show how much he loved us and cared about us, he sacrificed he one and only begotten son that we may find salvation. 

You're wrong, the gospels were written 40 years after his death not 400. 

"A thought experiment will help here. The four gospels comprise over 64,000 words. We have over 2,000 manuscripts that contain all or part of these gospels. Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that each word represents one potential variant. (In fact each word represents many potential variants, owing to misspelling, omission, word order, etc.) Further, let's suppose that each manuscript contains half of the gospel material, or 32,000 words. Using these conservative numbers, there are 64,000,000 possible variants in the gospel manuscripts. If there are, in fact, 200,000 variants (a high estimate for the gospels alone), then this means that we have .3% of the possible variants. To put it positively, the accuracy score for the gospel manuscripts is 99.7%. Not a bad grade." 

Oral Tradition Info:

In an essay on oral tradition we demonstrated that within an ancient Jewish context, there was every reason to suppose that for whatever period the Gospel messages were transmitted orally, the transmission process was accurate and reliable. We noted that there was an 80% correspondence in the words of Jesus, and that under the paradigm of oral tradition, incidentals were allowed to be variable as long as the primary point was not affected.

In this brief essay we will discuss how this affects the Gospels and the differences between them.

As before, we should stress that variations in oral tradition in no way contradicts the idea of inerrancy. The idea of inspiration as wooden and mechanical in all cases is something that the Scriptures never demand. Nor is there any indication that such variations were considered "erroneous" by the ancients, under whose paradigms we are compelled to work here. Skeptics must show that such variations were considered problematic by ancient commentators, not merely impose their own 21st-century literary values upon the text.

Albert Lord, in his essay entitled "The Gospels as Oral Traditional Literature" which appears in The Relationships Among the Gospels: An Interdisciplinary Dialogue, remarks generally upon oral traditional narratives as having "textual fluidity", such that they are "constantly being repeated without concern for word-for-word retelling of a set, established text." [37] Shorter forms such as proverbs or sayings are more likely to remain fixed than longer narrative. Of course, this agrees with what we have noted above about Jesus' own words being preserved the best; though Lord adds that shorter parts of a longer narrative "may attain a fair degree of fixity in the retellings of a given storyteller, or of narrators in a closed group, without conscious memorization." (Note that in the case of the Gospels, we would argue for conscious memorization.)

Lord's essay is primarily concerned with orality as it related to the question of literary dependence among the Gospels. Nevertheless, it provides relevant clues in terms of showing the potential effect of oral tradition on differences in the Gospels. Why might Matthew read "but when the sun rose" (heliou de anateilantos) while Mark prefers "and when the sun rose" (kai hote aneteilen ho helios)?

Critics preferring literary theories must construct scenarios explaining why Matthew, copying Mark, was motivated to make such a change. Lord's essay suggests that sometimes a simpler thesis fits the bill: oral tradition and its effects. He offers a parallel in a Serbocroatian song titled "The Captivity of Djulic Ibrahim".

It is easy to see some parallels here to variations in verbiage in the Gospels. Lord notes in conclusion that the Gospels have certain characteristics of oral traditional literature, including the elaboration and expansion of parallel stories.

In this we are not pointing to any particular difference in the Gospels as the result of oral transmission. Differences, as we have noted, may also be due to a variety of literary factors; and the Gospels were written for entirely different purposes in a quite different social context, where there was an even greater concern for accurate transmission of a religious heritage. 

http://www.tektonics.org/lp/oral2.html


Well it certainly makes more sense when you look at the details and not small unexamined quips made about general assumptions.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

And let us not forget the "Dead Sea Scrolls". Not only where there fragments of the Old Testament books but there are the Gospel writtings less then 100 years after Christ had risen. Not to mention a whole lot of other documents that hold true to scripture and history!raise01:


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

kantowrestler said:


> And let us not forget the "Dead Sea Scrolls". Not only where there fragments of the Old Testament books but there are the Gospel writtings less then 100 years after Christ had risen. Not to mention a whole lot of other documents that hold true to scripture and history!raise01:


Absolutely!

That alone stands as strong evidence as to the accuracy of the scriptures we have today.

edit:

Ironman I see you lurking about  jump in sexy


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

A personal thanks to michelangelo and E Lit Er Ate for your efforts.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

I urge you to do a bit of research on the accuracy of human memory.

The reality is, most people forget about 80% of anything they read or hear within just a few minutes. 

The accuracy of stories conveyed via oral transmission over the course of minutes is almost nil, so accuracy over the course of 40 years is zero. 

---

Also, you have no explanation for why there is a complete absence of historical references to a jesus of nazareth by the contemporary historians of that era. 

It is only the "true believers" and their oral traditions, if such oral stories in fact ever existed, rather than serving as yet another cover up for the fact that there were no disciples at all to witness the supposed miracles. 



xeberus said:


> Yea, absolutely it'll never be heard by billions around the world or be the most produced book ever.. Wouldn't ever happen.. would take an act of God eh?
> 
> Absolutely to show how much he loved us and cared about us, he sacrificed he one and only begotten son that we may find salvation.
> 
> ...


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Why is it so important if Jesus existed or not? Does it make any difference? 

Personally I believe the historical Jesus existed, but that doesn't mean I'm Christian or religious. The opposite is the case rather.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> A personal thanks to michelangelo and E Lit Er Ate for your efforts.


In the words of Mr. Spock:

"Are you sure it's not time for a colorful metaphor?"


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well acknowledging that Jesus did indeed exist is a step in the right direction. There are people who believe that everything that is in the Bible is made up. Well some examples of things that have been historically verified is not only that Jesus existed, but that Pontius Pilate did exist, both King Herod the Great and Herod the 2nd did exist, need I go on? There is just about every verifiable thing in the Bible historically with a few exceptions. Not everything in the Bible has been verified but nothing in the Bible has been proven wrong!raise01:


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

i find it funny how the bible is ones case for god and jesus...ok...thats like trying to prove aliens are in fact dog shit that came from mars quoting a book called ''Aliens: the truth, we found them. dog shit from mars.''

bible isnt a sacred book, there are so many different versions of it and MEN wrote that book, men who wanted to prove their fairy tales and get more followers

the bible says so many wrong things and then ppl say we should get our morales from it

even if jesus did exist, there has been some discovries that COULD be jesus, but could also be a million other things, but ok lets just say jesus did exist and we found him

ok, now does that mean that dude named jesus was really gods son? oh it couldnt just be a normal person? no powers, nothing, just a normal guy trying to get ppl to get along

to this day there are ppl who say are healed with no explanations by other humans with the power of chi, to this day there are illusionists that fool ppl into thinking their illusions are real

this couldnt happen at that time? ppl couldnt be fooled? ppl couldnt exagerate?

there are many drawings in cave walls that show us interacting with wierd animals or aliens landing on earth to help us, so that must mean that all of that happened right??

at the end of the day, they were humans, and those humans could have made the same mistakes, lied, and been fooled just like every other human

and the fact that throughout history there have been many stories about many beings written by many men doesnt make all of them true, tell a bj penn nuthugger to write a book about him and tell a GSP nuthugger to write a book on bj penn...for some reason the bj penn fanboy will make penn seem invincible:confused02:

EVEN IF jesus existed it doesnt prove god, it doesnt prove your religion, it doesnt make the bible the holy truth and it doesnt mean ppl actually do have powers

it means once upon a time there was a dude named jesus:thumb02:


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> I urge you to do a bit of research on the accuracy of human memory.
> 
> The reality is, most people forget about 80% of anything they read or hear within just a few minutes.
> 
> The accuracy of stories conveyed via oral transmission over the course of minutes, so accuracy over the course of 40 years is zero.


No need, this particular thing "oral tradition" is the way that almost all history was passed down and so forth. Such ways of transmitting history accurately does not exist today due to the many advances in technology making such things unneeded. But just an example: my great grand father fought in WW2, I know many stories intricately about his experiences in WW2. Not only have I never met im, ive never seen a picture of the guy. Does that mean these stories are completely untrue and different? I mean we're comparing something vastly more important than these war stories, told by hundreds of different people often overlapping many times over the span of 20-40 years vs something that each generation in my family has heard once or twice and in the span of over 70 years.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

I didn't really want to get involved in this discussion, but I had to bite at the notion of nothing in the Bible being proven wrong? Other than the talking snake; Adam being made from dust and Eve from one of Adam's ribs; Noah's Ark; The notion of Earth being 4000 years old and created in 6 days by God; Just to name a select few. None of those have been disproven?


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Here is another example of how accurate the Bible is. When the Dead Sea Scrolls were unearthed they compared all the Biblical passages to those found in modern Bibles. The only margine of error between the modern Bibles and the Dead Sea Scrolls had to do with translational issues!raise01:


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

xeberus said:


> No need, this particular thing "oral tradition" is the way that almost all history was passed down and so forth. Such ways of transmitting history accurately does not exist today due to the many advances in technology making such things unneeded. But just an example: my great grand father fought in WW2, I know many stories intricately about his experiences in WW2. Not only have I never met im, ive never seen a picture of the guy. Does that mean these stories are completely untrue and different? I mean we're comparing something vastly more important than these war stories, told by hundreds of different people often overlapping many times over the span of 20-40 years vs something that each generation in my family has heard once or twice and in the span of over 70 years.


The point is moot since historians never documented a jesus of nazareth.

However, a few historians or more have documented wwii, very often in writing and video form. 

One set of historical events is a fabrication, the other thoroughly documented in non oral form.

Therefore, the comparison is not valid.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

But in all seriousness, the majority of the bible's stories, if not all of them, are most likely fake.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> *The point is moot since historians never documented a jesus of nazareth.*
> 
> However, a few historians or more have documented wwii, very often in writing and video form.
> 
> ...


yea they kinda did.. >_<



> Well sir, I must disagree. There is a man by the name of josephus. Allow me to tell you a little about him. He was a historian, a jewish historian in the first century AD to be precise. This is some evidence I would like to introduce as to the existence of jesus christ.
> 
> 1. "Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day."
> 
> ...





> Oh if you wanted more reliable sources, all you had to do was ask.
> 
> As the general consensus:
> 
> ...


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> The point is moot since historians never documented a jesus of nazareth.
> 
> However, a few historians or more have documented wwii, very often in writing and video form.
> 
> ...


So.. there is no historical data of Jesus.. yet all the historical data about him is fake.

So... yeah, I'm glad I pulled out of the debate. If you believe the above statement I said, you will never understand the gospel of Jesus.

A lot of people try to disprove the bible without ever reading it, isn't that funny?


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, so to say that Jesus didn't exist doesn't hold tight cause Josephus wrote about him and also about a number of other events in history. Modern historians use him as a source for several events so to say that Josephus wasn't an accurate source doesn't bode well with the historical establishment!raise01:


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

AlphaDawg said:


> But in all seriousness, the majority of the bible's stories, if not all of them, are most likely fake.


See? Didn't read any of them and assumed they're fake, even though every single bible prophecy has come true in human history. Except for many about the last days of man's rule on earth which are being fulfilled now in the middle east and around the world.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

SpoKen said:


> See? Didn't read any of them and assumed they're fake, even though every single bible prophecy has come true in human history. Except for many about the last days of man's rule on earth which are being fulfilled now in the middle east and around the world.


I'm mainly talking about the stories of Jesus being a zombie, a bush talking to a man etc. I assume they're fake because they don't make sense. I believe in Science because unlike Religion, science provides constant facts and reason. The bible is as credible as a Dora the Explorer book.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

AlphaDawg said:


> I'm mainly talking about the stories of Jesus being a zombie, a bush talking to a man etc. I assume they're fake because they don't make sense. I believe in Science because unlike Religion, science provides constant facts and reason. The bible is as credible as a Dora the Explorer book.


Yet you haven't read it. You don't even know what stories your talking about.

Jesus is a zombie? Huh?


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

sorry i had to LOL


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> The reality is, most people forget about 80% of anything they read or hear within just a few minutes.
> 
> The accuracy of stories conveyed via oral transmission over the course of minutes is almost nil, so accuracy over the course of 40 years is zero.


That and they'd all be dead as the average lifespan was about 30-35 years in the time of Jesus. Yet we are to believe that they lived another 40 years. I guess that is why the gospels are so contradictory when it comes to Jesus - senility.

Gospel Contradictions:

1) How many generations were there between Abraham to David? Matthew 1:17 lists fourteen generations. Matthew 1:2 lists thirteen generations.

2) Is Paul lying? In Acts 20:35 Paul told people "to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'" Since Jesus never made such a biblical statement, isn’t Paul guilty of deception?

3) When did the leper become not a leper? (Matthew 8:13 & 8:14) Jesus healed the leper before visiting the house. (Mark 1:29-30 & 1:40-42) Jesus healed the leper after visiting Simon Peter’s house.

4) Who approached Jesus? (Matthew 8:5-7) The Centurion approached Jesus, beseeching help for a sick servant. (Luke 7:3 & 7:6-7) The Centurion did not approach Jesus. He sent friends and elders of the Jews.

5) Was she dead or just dying? (Matthew 9:18) He asked for help, saying his daughter was already dead. (Luke 8:41-42) Jairus approached Jesus for help, because his daughter was dying.

6) Just what did Jesus instruct them to take? (Matthew 10:10) Jesus instructed them not to take a staff, not to wear sandals. (Mark 6:8-9) Jesus instructed his disciples to wear sandals and take a staff on their journey.

7) When did John find out Jesus was the Messiah? (Matthew 11:2-3) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the messiah. (Luke 7:18-22) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the Messiah. (John 1 :29-34,36) John already knew Jesus was the Messiah.

8) Who made the request? (Matthew 20:20-21) Their mother requested that James and John, Zebedee’s children, should sit beside Jesus in his Kingdom. (Mark 10:35-37) James and John, Zebedee’s children, requested that they should sit beside Jesus in his Kingdom.

9) What animals were brought to Jesus? (Matthew 21:2-7) two of the disciples brought Jesus an ass and a colt from the village of Bethphage. (Mark 11:2-7) They brought him only a colt.

10) When did the fig tree hear of its doom? (Matthew 21:17-19) Jesus cursed the fig tree after purging the temple. (Mark 11:14-15 & 20) He cursed it before the purging.

11) When did the fig tree keel? (Matthew 21:9) The fig tree withered immediately. and the disciples registered surprise then and there. (Mark 11:12-14 & 20) The morning after Jesus cursed the fig tree, the disciples noticed it had withered and expressed astonishment.

12) Was John the Baptist Elias? "This is Elias which was to come." Matthew 11:14 "And they asked him, what then? Art thou Elias? And he said I am not." John l:21

13) Who was the father of Joseph? Matthew 1:16 The father of Joseph was Jacob. Luke 3 :23 The father of Joseph was Heli. Christians shall try to LIE and tell you that one is the heritage of Mary and the other Joseph. This is utter bullshit, the Hebrew and Greek cultures NEVER regarded the bloodline of the mother. They were patriarchal societies which only concerned themselves with paternal lineage.

14) How many generations were there from the Babylon captivity to Christ? Matthew 1:17 Fourteen generations, Matthew 1:12-16 Thirteen generations.

15) Matthew 2:15, 19 & 21-23 The infant Christ was taken into Egypt. Luke 2:22 & 39 The infant Christ was NOT taken to Egypt.

16) Matthew 5:1-2 Christ preached his first sermon on the mount. Luke 6:17 & 20 Christ preached his first sermon in the plain.

17) John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee. Mark 1:14 John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee. John 1:43 & 3:22-24

18) What was the nationality of the woman who besought Jesus? Matthew 15:22 "And behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, Have mercy on me, 0 Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil." Mark 7:26 "The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation, and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter."

19) How many blind men besought Jesus? Matthew 20:30 Two blind men. Luke 18:35-38 Only one blind man.

20) Where did the devil take Jesus first? (Matthew 4:5-8) The Devil took Jesus first to the parapet of the temple, then to a high place to view all the Kingdoms of the world. (Luke 4:5-9) The Devil took Jesus first to a high place to view the kingdoms, then to the parapet of the temple.

21) Can one pray in public? (Matthew 6:5-6) Jesus condemned public prayer. (1 Timothy 2:8) Paul encouraged public prayer.

22) If we decide to do good works, should those works be seen? Matthew 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works." 1 Peter 2:12 "Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that ... they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation." This contradicts: Matthew 6:1-4 "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them…that thine alms may be in secret." Matthew 23:3-5 "Do not ye after their [Pharisees'] works ... all their works they do for to be seen of men."

23) Who did Jesus tell the Lord’s Prayer to? (Matthew 5:1, 6:9-13 & 7:28) Jesus delivered the Lord’s Prayer during the Sermon on the Mount before the multitudes. (Luke 11:1-4) He delivered it before the disciples alone, and not as part of the Sermon on the Mount.

24) When was Christ crucified? Mark 15:25 "And it was the third hour and they crucified him." John 19:14-15 "And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your king…Shall I crucify your king?" John 19:14-15.

25) The two thieves reviled Christ. (Matthew 27:44 & Mark 15:32) Only one of the thieves reviled Christ. Luke 23:39-40.

26) In 1 Corinthians 1:17 ("For Christ sent me [Paul] not to baptize but to preach the gospel") Paul said Jesus was wrong when he said in Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them…" Clearly one of these people is wrong, either way, it’s a contradiction.

27) When did Satan enter Judas? Satan entered into Judas while at the supper. John 13:27 Satan entered Judas before the supper. Luke 23:3-4 & 7

28) How many women came to the sepulcher? John 20:1 Only one woman went, Mary Magdalene. Matthew 28:1 Mary Magdalene and the "other Mary" (Jesus’ mother) went.

29) Mark 16:2 It was sunrise when the two women went to the sepulcher. John 20:1 It was still dark (before sunrise) when Mary Magdalene went alone to the sepulcher.

30) There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulcher and they were standing up. Luke 24:4 There was only one angel seen and he was sitting down. Mark 28:2-5

31) How many angels were within the sepulcher? John 20:11-12 two, Mark 16:5 one.

32) The Holy Ghost bestowed at Pentecost. Acts 1:5-8 & 2:1-4 The holy Ghost bestowed before Pentecost. John 20:22

33) Where did Jesus first appear to the eleven disciples? In a room in Jerusalem. Luke 24:32-37 On a mountain in Galilee. Matthew 28:15-17

34) Where did Christ ascend from? From Mount Olivet. Acts 1:9-12 From Bethany. Luke 24:50-51

35) Can all sins be forgiven? (Acts 13:39) All sins can be forgiven. Great, I’m happy to know God is so merciful, but wait (Mark 3:29) Cursing or blaspheming the Holy Spirit is unforgivable.

36) The Elijah mystery: (Malachi 4:5) Elijah must return before the final days of the world. (Matthew 11:12-14) Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah. (Matthew 17:12- 13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come, and everyone understood him to mean John the Baptist. (Mark 9:13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come. (John 1:21) John the Baptist maintained that he was not Elijah.

37) Who purchased the potter’s field? Acts 1:18 The field was purchased by Judas. John 20:1 The potter’s field was purchased by the chief priests.

38) Paul’s attendants heard the miraculous voice and stood speechless. Acts 9:7 Paul’s attendants did not hear the voice and were prostrate. Acts 22:9 & 26:14

39) Who bought the Sepulcher? Jacob, Josh 24:32 Abraham, Acts 7:16

40) Was it lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death? "The Jews answered him, we have a law, and by our law he ought to die." John 19:7 "The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death." John 18:31

41) Has anyone ascended up to heaven? Elijah went up to heaven: "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." 2 Kings 2:11 "No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man." John 3:13

42) Is scripture inspired by God? "all scripture is given by inspiration of God." 2 Timothy 3:16 compared to: "But I speak this by permission and not by commandment." 1 Corinthians 7:6 "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord." 1 Corinthians 7:12 "That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord" 2 Corinthians.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

SpoKen said:


> Yet you haven't read it. You don't even know what stories your talking about.
> 
> Jesus is a zombie? Huh?


Sadly, my parents make me go to a religious private school. Trust me, I've read them.

Yes, Jesus is a zombie. You didn't know?


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

AlphaDawg said:


> Sadly, my parents make me go to a religious private school. Trust me, I've read them.
> 
> Yes, Jesus is a zombie. You didn't know?


Jesus doesn't eat people and turn them into zombies though... he died and revived though.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

SpoKen said:


> Jesus doesn't eat people and turn them into zombies though...he died and revived though.


He was a more gentle type of zombie, but a zombie nonetheless.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> That and they'd all be dead as the average lifespan was about 30-35 years in the time of Jesus. Yet we are to believe that they lived another 40 years. I guess that is why the gospels are so contradictory when it comes to Jesus - senility.
> 
> Gospel Contradictions:
> 
> ...


There is no way I can disprove this entire list. But I'll make it easy for you to understand why there is no contradictions in the bible, although the way it is written can cause confusion.

When you have 2 different verses saying two different things, it usually means your taking things out of context. People point out contradictions in verses without reading the verses before it. I read to number 10 and I can already tell this is going on.

Of course verse 7:14 and 8:2 can be confusing if you don't bother to read the before, between, and after.

This practice is mentioned and warned about in the bible. Understand the context of the verse before teaching about it lest you lead people astray.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

AlphaDawg said:


> He was a more gentle type of zombie, but a zombie nonetheless.


Well.. okay... :confused05:


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## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

SpoKen said:


> Jesus doesn't eat people and turn them into zombies though... *he died and revived though.*


That's good enough for me, he's 100% zombie.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

okay im taking a break from pretending to be a christian.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

xeberus said:


>


What a Wonderful World that would be!


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

If this is going to turn into a christian bashing thread I'll just close it.


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