# Dana White Talks Overeem



## NikosCC (May 16, 2007)

> "Here we go. Alistair Overeem is gonna be the new guy? Alistsair Overeem got knocked out by Chuck Liddell at 205. You know what’s funny? Because we don’t have him signed he’ll be the new guy. The guy that Chuck knocked out at 205. All the UFC haters will be like, ‘oh yeah, this guy is the best.’ And all the idiot websites will rank him the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world."



Source-http://www.mmamania.com/


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

NikosCC said:


> Source-http://www.mmamania.com/


 
This seems out of context. What was the questions leading up to this response?


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## morninglightmt (Sep 7, 2008)

G_Land said:


> This seems out of context. What was the questions leading up to this response?


Yea, Dana is out of context. Mostly the fact that he fought Chuck 7 years ago in a ring when he was 23 years old, skinny as a bean pole and jumped around the ring using a fighting style that could only be described as "whirling dervish". I love Dana, but he can be such a twat sometimes. Oh well.

edit: oh Dana! Let's not forget he has TWO wins over a certain guy in line for a title shot and who you claim is a huge threat to a person who YOU claim IS the P4P best in the world. Guess who that is? Vitor Belfort:cheeky4:


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## FrankMir20 (Dec 21, 2009)

This is a year ago,, why is dana hating??? because ali is getting some publicity? cmon dana this is just stupid!! SIGN THE MONSTER


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Dana should finally start to get him into the UFC instead of talking crap about him.

PS: He even owned Chuck in that fight until a lucky overhand right!


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Why is Overeem wearing a bathrobe in that pic:confused02:


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## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

I dont think they will rank Overeem above 5 in the HW rankings after this weekend.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

Keith Jardine whooped Chuck's ass, and was just released by the UFC. People get better, Dana.


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## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

I wonder what the outcome would be if they fought next week..lol:confused02::thumb02:


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

locnott said:


> I wonder what the outcome would be if they foufgt next week..lol:confused02::thumb02:


Chuck! By being able to take more nut shots than Overeem.

I wish Chuck still had a chin and everybody still respected him as a fighter nowadays... Makes me sad when my childhood hero is never given good odds to beat anyone...:sad02:


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## streetpunk08 (Jul 15, 2006)

Overeem has gotten better since his fight with Chuck but alot of people overrate him in MMA. People look at his K-1 fights with Badr Hari and Remy and think wow noone can stand with this guy, but striking in K-1 under K-1 rules is alot different than striking in MMA were takedowns are in play, you fight in an 8 sided cage, and you have small 4 oz. gloves. It's the same thing as a boxer coming over to MMA, different rules, different gloves, different sport. Overeem is a top 10 HW but is still unproven since all he's done is beat cans. I would love to see him fight in the UFC at HW.


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## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Dana should finally start to get him into the UFC instead of talking crap about him.
> 
> PS: He even owned Chuck in that fight until a lucky overhand right!


That overhand right has nothing to do with luck, it was Chuck's bread and butter for years. That said, there's no way in hell Chuck could beat Overeem today. We all know Dana can be a douche bag at times, but if he wants to discredit Overeem, then sign him and have one of your middle teir HW's beat him. I'm a fan of all 3 of these guys but to say that that fight today would have the same result is ludicrous. This whole "he couldn't stand with our guys" (insert name and organization) is just mental masturbation. Wouldn't it be sweet if at the end of the year they had some sort of tourney where the top 2 from each weight class and organization fought. Now that's some serious mental wacking off.


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## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

streetpunk08 said:


> Overeem has gotten better since his fight with Chuck but alot of people overrate him in MMA. People look at his K-1 fights with Badr Hari and Remy and think wow noone can stand with this guy, but striking in K-1 under K-1 rules is alot different than striking in MMA were takedowns are in play, you fight in an 8 sided cage, and you have small 4 oz. gloves. It's the same thing as a boxer coming over to MMA, different rules, different gloves, different sport. Overeem is a top 10 HW but is still unproven since all he's done is beat cans. I would love to see him fight in the UFC at HW.


Overeem is the Strikeforce HW champ, how can you imply he doesn't know mma? If I'm not mistaken he has a better record in mma then K-1, granted he's had more fights in K-1 then mma but he's no stranger to either. I do know that he caught a lot of shit for saying that mma is harder to master and be good at then K-1.


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## streetpunk08 (Jul 15, 2006)

dave-stjohn said:


> Overeem is the Strikeforce HW champ, how can you imply he doesn't know mma? If I'm not mistaken he has a better record in mma then K-1, granted he's had more fights in K-1 then mma but he's no stranger to either. I do know that he caught a lot of shit for saying that mma is harder to master and be good at then K-1.



Where did I say "he doesnt know MMA"? He fought for a long time in PRIDE and I watched all his fights there. Prior to his K-1 streak nobody considered Overeem the monster he is percieved to be currently. I was referring to the tons of poster's that say Overeem is the best striker at HW and that nobody can stand with him based off his K-1 performances. I've been following MMA for about 6 years I know Overeem but alot of people think he's untouchable on the feet in MMA based on his K-1 bouts, I don't think that's accurate. Since moving to HW in MMA he hasnt fought top guys or even mid tier guys, he's fought cans and a guy barely above a can in Brett Rogers. He is unproven at Heavyweight in MMA, the 205 Overeem is alot different than HW Overeem. The only reason people consider him as good as he is hyped is 100% because of what he's done in K-1 not what he did in MMA and what I was trying to imply is that success in K-1 which is completely different doesn't automatically translate over to MMA. Overeem is a much better striker under K-1 rules than he ever was in MMA.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

I think he's way, WAY over rated for beating another guy who I thought was not very good at all (Brett Rogers). I understand he has a resume with much more on it, but a lot of this talk seems to have popped up just because he tossed a completely inferior and intimidated fighter in Rogers.

He's accomplished some sick things in his career, but there has NEVER been any sign of consistency with him and I'm not convinced he won't just get laid on or flash KO'd a lot in a top 10 UFC career.

If I was Dana, how could I not feel the same way? Look at the guys last 10 fights and look at the easy wins for a guy of his supposed skill level. 

Do I hate a HW world class kickboxer fighting in the UFC????? NO!!!! I would love it! But I don't buy the hype. Overeem has been broken before and he definitely will be many more times if he starts fighting top 10 again.


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

Dana seems to forget to mention this was a fight that happend 7 years ago!
Maybe someone should point out how both P4P kings Anderson and GSP has lost after that.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

streetpunk08 said:


> Where did I say "he doesnt know MMA"? He fought for a long time in PRIDE and I watched all his fights there. Prior to his K-1 streak nobody considered Overeem the monster he is percieved to be currently. I was referring to the tons of poster's that say Overeem is the best striker at HW and that nobody can stand with him based off his K-1 performances. I've been following MMA for about 6 years I know Overeem but alot of people think he's untouchable on the feet in MMA based on his K-1 bouts, I don't think that's accurate. Since moving to HW in MMA he hasnt fought top guys or even mid tier guys, he's fought cans and a guy barely above a can in Brett Rogers. He is unproven at Heavyweight in MMA, the 205 Overeem is alot different than HW Overeem. The only reason people consider him as good as he is hyped is 100% because of what he's done in K-1 not what he did in MMA and what I was trying to imply is that success in K-1 which is completely different doesn't automatically translate over to MMA. Overeem is a much better striker under K-1 rules than he ever was in MMA.


Well, you only have to take a look on how he lost at 205. Overeem owned almost anybody on the feet back in Pride. He won the striking exchanges against Shogun, Chuck, Werdum, Belfort.. he only lost because he had to drain his body on such a huge amount every time and gassed out quickly. Shogun and almost all of the others had to take him down and wear him out to win the fight by submission.
But now that Overeem is a HW, completely in shape and extremely strong tells me that it won't be easy to take him down now. He probably worked on his Wrestling and BJJ too.

And now take a look at the current UFC Roster. Who do you possibly see him losing too on the feet?? There is nobody right now except maybe JDS. But JDS is just a Boxer! Thats the only thing he does. Now we have Kongo.. Gilbert.. Duffee.. Mir.. thats it. There is nobody! 
The really strong Wrestlers like Brock and Cain could and probably would beat him yes. But there is no striker who Overeem shouldn't have an advantage on right now.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Dana White is pissed because is showing to the other fighters that there´s life outside UFC.
He stated this openly after Roger´s fight and in my opinion that was huge and i can only imagine Dana getting real pissed about it.
He is opening a path for fighters to realise that it´s possible to fight in more than one org and more than 2 or 3times a year (pat barry made 11k for fighting CC  ), earning with that more money and glory.


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## streetpunk08 (Jul 15, 2006)

BobbyCooper said:


> Well, you only have to take a look on how he lost at 205. Overeem owned almost anybody on the feet back in Pride. He won the striking exchanges against Shogun, Chuck, Werdum, Belfort.. he only lost because he had to drain his body on such a huge amount every time and gassed out quickly. Shogun and almost all of the others had to take him down and wear him out to win the fight by submission.
> But now that Overeem is a HW, completely in shape and extremely strong tells me that it won't be easy to take him down now. He probably worked on his Wrestling and BJJ too.
> 
> And now take a look at the current UFC Roster. Who do you possibly see him losing too on the feet?? There is nobody right now except maybe JDS. But JDS is just a Boxer! Thats the only thing he does. Now we have Kongo.. Gilbert.. Duffee.. Mir.. thats it. There is nobody!
> The really strong Wrestlers like Brock and Cain could and probably would beat him yes. But there is no striker who Overeem shouldn't have an advantage on right now.


I do think Overeem is good but I'm not gonna hype him through the roof until he goes out and proves it. He didnt suck at 205 but he was always on the tail end of the top 10 and was never in the top 3 or 5, which doesn't mean he wasnt good it's just that 205 has always been the deepest and most talented division. I think JDS could stand with Overeem, Anderson if he fought at HW, I dont know what's wrong with being a boxer, boxing has been one of the most effective techniques over the last century. Overeem is a bully and the problem with bully type fighter's is when they meet reisistance they crumble.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

streetpunk08 said:


> I do think Overeem is good but I'm not gonna hype him through the roof until he goes out and proves it. He didnt suck at 205 but he was always on the tail end of the top 10 and was never in the top 3 or 5, which doesn't mean he wasnt good it's just that 205 has always been the deepest and most talented division. I think JDS could stand with Overeem, Anderson if he fought at HW, I dont know what's wrong with being a boxer, boxing has been one of the most effective techniques over the last century. Overeem is a bully and the problem with bully type fighter's is when they meet reisistance they crumble.


Just a Boxer means he is just a Boxer. Overeem is K-1 Level Striker! Now let James Toney fight Semmy Schilt.. and we will see what happens. Or to be fair, let Klitschko fight Semmi Schilt.

Overeem was still extremely young when he fought in Pride. Started his career with 19 years of age already. 

Plus like you said, he steps from the by far strongest division in MMA into the by far weakest Division. Thats a huge huge change for him.


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## streetpunk08 (Jul 15, 2006)

BobbyCooper said:


> Just a Boxer means he is just a Boxer. Overeem is K-1 Level Striker! Now let James Toney fight Semmy Schilt.. and we will see what happens. Or to be fair, let Klitschko fight Semmi Schilt.
> 
> Overeem was still extremely young when he fought in Pride. Started his career with 19 years of age already.
> 
> Plus like you said, he steps from the by far strongest division in MMA into the by far weakest Division. Thats a huge huge change for him.


205 imo is the best division but it's about styles. Overeem would want someone to stand with him, 205 has alot of strikers. HW at least in the UFC is dominated at the moment by wrestlers, guys who won't stand with Overeem and take him down, that's bad for Overeem, so it's a pick your posion type deal. I think you underestimate boxing but I'm not gonna get into a debate about two striking disciplines because it's pointless.


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Well, you only have to take a look on how he lost at 205. Overeem owned almost anybody on the feet back in Pride. He won the striking exchanges against Shogun, Chuck, Werdum, Belfort.. he only lost because he had to drain his body on such a huge amount every time and gassed out quickly. Shogun and almost all of the others had to take him down and wear him out to win the fight by submission.
> But now that Overeem is a HW, completely in shape and extremely strong tells me that it won't be easy to take him down now. He probably worked on his Wrestling and BJJ too.
> 
> And now take a look at the current UFC Roster. Who do you possibly see him losing too on the feet?? There is nobody right now except maybe JDS. But JDS is just a Boxer! Thats the only thing he does. Now we have Kongo.. Gilbert.. Duffee.. Mir.. thats it. There is nobody!
> The really strong Wrestlers like Brock and Cain could and probably would beat him yes. But there is no striker who Overeem shouldn't have an advantage on right now.


When did MMA change to just striking? And.... just because JDS doesn't have to fight on the ground is no reason to think he can't. I believe he is a Black Belt @ BJJ.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

streetpunk08 said:


> 205 imo is the best division but it's about styles. Overeem would want someone to stand with him, 205 has alot of strikers. HW at least in the UFC is dominated at the moment by wrestlers, guys who won't stand with Overeem and take him down, that's bad for Overeem, so it's a pick your posion type deal. I think you underestimate boxing but I'm not gonna get into a debate about two striking disciplines because it's pointless.


We both know wich striking art is more effective!

But your right, like I said earlier the champ is Brock. Then we have Cain and Carwin. But Carwin would probably try to Box with him as well.. but Cain and Brock both will probably beat him right now I agree. But we don't know how good his TDD really has become. 

Overeem without a doupt could make the top 3 HW rankings in the World!


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Majortom505 said:


> When did MMA change to just striking? And.... just because JDS doesn't have to fight on the ground is no reason to think he can't. I believe he is a Black Belt @ BJJ.


He doesn't have the Wrestling and BJJ to do any damage to Overeem on the ground. He is outmatched there as well!


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## xgarrettxvx (Jan 2, 2010)

since cain is so high up these days put him in a rematch with kongo and give kongo more than 2 weeks to prepare and i think cain's rank would go down. I watched shogun vs overeem last night back when AO looked like a human. now that he is some sort of monster thing i think he's probably better. because all the muscle he has doesn't seem to slow him down. i'm excited to see more of his fights.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

xgarrettxvx said:


> since cain is so high up these days put him in a rematch with kongo and give kongo more than 2 weeks to prepare and i think cain's rank would go down. I watched shogun vs overeem last night back when AO looked like a human. now that he is some sort of monster thing i think he's probably better. because all the muscle he has doesn't seem to slow him down. i'm excited to see more of his fights.


Good Point! I don't even see Cain as such a huge favourite against him either.. but I would still say he could and probably would grind out a 3 Round decision. But Kongo did well so I see Overeem only doing better.


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## streetpunk08 (Jul 15, 2006)

BobbyCooper said:


> We both know wich striking art is more effective!


No we don't, I don't believe kickboxing is more effective than boxing. But I also don't believe boxing is more effective than kickboxing. It depends on the fighters. Boxing and kickboxing have different styles, techniques, approaches. Not every boxer/kickboxer fights the same way or with the same style. It isn't a black and white issue that can be proven without a shadow of a doubt, there's too many variables to say this striking discipline is more effective etc. It depends on the two fighter's competing and the situation.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Well, I've seen lots of footage from Boxer vs. Kickboxer bouts. And for me it's always like this. The more weapons you are able to use, the more effective and dangerous you are.


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## streetpunk08 (Jul 15, 2006)

BobbyCooper said:


> Well, I've seen lots of footage from Boxer vs. Kickboxer bouts. And for me it's always like this. The more weapons you are able to use, the more effective and dangerous you are.


It's always a washed up past his prime boxer though against high-level kickboxers, the ones I've seen anyway. You never saw a prime Muhammad Ali or Tyson fighting, it's always a washed up boxer like Ray Mercer looking for a paycheck. Styles make fights, not every boxer has the same stance, the same technique, the same style, the same defensive tactics. You can't take isolated fights and say this is the way it will always go because not every boxer/kickboxer fights the same way. IMO the best approach in MMA is a combination of boxing and kickboxing/muay thai, example being Anderson Silva. Anderson combined his muay thai with boxing techniques.


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## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

Isn't JDS the national champion in Kickboxing?


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

I'd put my life savings down on JDS KO'ing Overeem.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

streetpunk08 said:


> It's always a washed up past his prime boxer though against high-level kickboxers, the ones I've seen anyway. You never saw a prime Muhammad Ali or Tyson fighting, it's always a washed up boxer like Ray Mercer looking for a paycheck. Styles make fights, not every boxer has the same stance, the same technique, the same style, the same defensive tactics. You can't take isolated fights and say this is the way it will always go because not every boxer/kickboxer fights the same way. IMO the best approach in MMA is a combination of boxing and kickboxing/muay thai, example being Anderson Silva. Anderson combined his muay thai with boxing techniques.


Well, guess we have a different point of view here 



leifdawg said:


> Isn't JDS the national champion in Kickboxing?


Never heard about that! But maybe..



SJ said:


> I'd put my life savings down on JDS KO'ing Overeem.


Thats a risky bet SJ^^


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## streetpunk08 (Jul 15, 2006)

JDS versus Overeem is a good fight and I wanna see it. I would pick JDS just because of the stylistic matchup. Overeem is a bully and JDS is fearless. JDS will come out and get right in Overeem's face and push the pace like he did against Mirko, another bully fighter. Bully fighter's do not like resistance (Mike Tyson, George Foreman, Sonny Liston). Brett Rogers was scared the first second of that fight and Overeem knew it, JDS is not gonna be scared and he will be extremely confident. I think JDS has a good style to beat Overeem.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

streetpunk08 said:


> JDS versus Overeem is a good fight and I wanna see it. I would pick JDS just because of the stylistic matchup. Overeem is a bully and JDS is fearless. JDS will come out and get right in Overeem's face and push the pace like he did against Mirko, another bully fighter. Bully fighter's do not like resistance (Mike Tyson, George Foreman, Sonny Liston). Brett Rogers was scared the first second of that fight and Overeem knew it, JDS is not gonna be scared and he will be extremely confident. I think JDS has a good style to beat Overeem.


It would definitely be a great one!

But don't forget, Overeem does have pretty good Takedowns and Top Control as well. So if everything goes wrong for him on the feet, he could still try to make this a Wrestling match.


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## Dream-On-101 (Jun 4, 2009)

leifdawg said:


> Isn't JDS the national champion in Kickboxing?


From wat i understand he is (or was, i am not certain whether he still has the title) the undefeated Heavyweight Brazillian Kickboxing champion.

He certainly seems reluctant to utilise kicks too much in MMA, but i would guess that to be due to the fact that he has such excellent hands, and also the knowledge that his ground game is probably significantly weaker than his standup; and kicks to tend to set one up for a TD.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

Overeem would be a serious contender in the UFC. He's not the fighter he was from Pride days by any stretch of the imagination. I'd almost rather see him signed then Fedor.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

streetpunk08 said:


> Where did I say "he doesnt know MMA"? He fought for a long time in PRIDE and I watched all his fights there. Prior to his K-1 streak nobody considered Overeem the monster he is percieved to be currently. I was referring to the tons of poster's that say Overeem is the best striker at HW and that nobody can stand with him based off his K-1 performances. I've been following MMA for about 6 years I know Overeem but alot of people think he's untouchable on the feet in MMA based on his K-1 bouts, I don't think that's accurate. Since moving to HW in MMA he hasnt fought top guys or even mid tier guys, he's fought cans and a guy barely above a can in Brett Rogers. He is unproven at Heavyweight in MMA, the 205 Overeem is alot different than HW Overeem. The only reason people consider him as good as he is hyped is 100% because of what he's done in K-1 not what he did in MMA and what I was trying to imply is that success in K-1 which is completely different doesn't automatically translate over to MMA. Overeem is a much better striker under K-1 rules than he ever was in MMA.


Were you paying attention to his mma fights in Pride? He was quite clearly out striking rua,lidell, lil nog quite badly until he went into self destruct mode and lost his energy. His striking has always been very good in mma, now its just that much better and he wont be gassing either. Overeem has lots of talent and would easily out strike any one in the HW division.

Also Overeem vs lil nog is a pretty good match up to analyse when discussing which striking art is more effective. i know lil nog won in the end, but you cant argue that overeem wasnt kicking the crap out of lil nog for 90 percent of the fight. lil nog is an excellent boxer. Overeem was picking him apart with his mu thai kickboxing for the majority of the fight.

Also, i dont get what you mean when overeem doesnt respond well to other aggressive fighters. Are chuck, rua, vitor and lil nog not aggressive? He had chuck shooting for the take down time and time again because he was getting beat up on the feet, he was beating up lil nog and he was beating up rua. Although he lossed these fights in the end, it was these fights where i noticed overeems talent.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

streetpunk08 said:


> Where did I say "he doesnt know MMA"? He fought for a long time in PRIDE and I watched all his fights there. Prior to his K-1 streak nobody considered Overeem the monster he is percieved to be currently. I was referring to the tons of poster's that say Overeem is the best striker at HW and that nobody can stand with him based off his K-1 performances. I've been following MMA for about 6 years I know Overeem but alot of people think he's untouchable on the feet in MMA based on his K-1 bouts, I don't think that's accurate. Since moving to HW in MMA he hasnt fought top guys or even mid tier guys, he's fought cans and a guy barely above a can in Brett Rogers. He is unproven at Heavyweight in MMA, the 205 Overeem is alot different than HW Overeem. The only reason people consider him as good as he is hyped is 100% because of what he's done in K-1 not what he did in MMA and what I was trying to imply is that success in K-1 which is completely different doesn't automatically translate over to MMA. Overeem is a much better striker under K-1 rules than he ever was in MMA.


this just proves you don't know what you are talking about. overeem was one of the most dangerous strikers at 205, he put a beating on chuck before he gassed and chuck landed the overhand right, he put a beating on shogun who had to take overeem to the ground to win, the exact same guy who took it to lyoto machida who everyone says has K1 level striking.

overeem always was a deadly striker.


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## Can.Opener (Apr 8, 2009)

Overeem's fitness was appalling at 205. He'd cut a shitload of weight and gas in the second round nearly every fight.

He is a different fighter at heavyweight.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Its just politics. Dana White has to talk bad about Strikeforce and their fighters due to them being business competitors.

I don't see that Fedor's loss is a big deal. He didn't get dominated in his fight. It looks like Werdum came close to getting knocked out, fell down and got lucky with locking in a triangle. Could have happened to anyone. 

It happened to Lyoto when he was fighting Tito. Doesn't necessarily mean Tito is the best fighter ever or that Lyoto is over-rated, yeah.


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## streetpunk08 (Jul 15, 2006)

guy incognito said:


> this just proves you don't know what you are talking about. overeem was one of the most dangerous strikers at 205, he put a beating on chuck before he gassed and chuck landed the overhand right, he put a beating on shogun who had to take overeem to the ground to win, the exact same guy who took it to lyoto machida who everyone says has K1 level striking.
> 
> overeem always was a deadly striker.


You guys are nitpicking the shit out of my posts. I never said Overeem sucked or even remotely implied it, I said at 205 he wasn't nearly as dominant as he has shown to be at HW or in his K-1 bouts.



Mckeever said:


> Were you paying attention to his mma fights in Pride? He was quite clearly out striking rua,lidell, lil nog quite badly until he went into self destruct mode and lost his energy. His striking has always been very good in mma, now its just that much better and he wont be gassing either. Overeem has lots of talent and would easily out strike any one in the HW division.
> 
> Also Overeem vs lil nog is a pretty good match up to analyse when discussing which striking art is more effective. i know lil nog won in the end, but you cant argue that overeem wasnt kicking the crap out of lil nog for 90 percent of the fight. lil nog is an excellent boxer. Overeem was picking him apart with his mu thai kickboxing for the majority of the fight.
> 
> Also, i dont get what you mean when overeem doesnt respond well to other aggressive fighters. Are chuck, rua, vitor and lil nog not aggressive? He had chuck shooting for the take down time and time again because he was getting beat up on the feet, he was beating up lil nog and he was beating up rua. Although he lossed these fights in the end, it was these fights where i noticed overeems talent.


I agree those are all very good fights and I never said anything to the contrary. I never said Overeem sucked at 205 or he was a can at 205 or he had 0 talent at 205. He wasnt nearly as dominant at 205 as he has shown at HW or in K-1. Maybe he was too drained from the weight cut I dunno but he's a different fighter at HW. Also with the extra weight he has alot more finishing ability and it makes him that much more dangerous. I said he was top 10 when he was fighting at 205 but that imo he was never in the top 3 or 5 range at that time.


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## urbanator (Oct 15, 2006)

locnott said:


> I wonder what the outcome would be if they fought next week..lol:confused02::thumb02:


Great post! Nuf sed.


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

Overeem's legit. He knows the cage. He knows how to fight. He's an excellent submission artist, most versatile striker at HW and ridiculously huge.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Dana white big upped Overeem before at one of the UFC shows along with Semmy Schilt. Strange how he would turn around and say that. Go figure...

Overeem is JACKED UP...he'll put the heavyweights on notice and will provide ample entertainment. He comes to bang...

Will he win the UFC belt, probably not...but he should wreck all the strikers with the possible exception of JDS.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

People do get better, and Alistair is not the same guy he was when he fought Chuck Lidell at 205.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

streetpunk08 said:


> You guys are nitpicking the shit out of my posts. I never said Overeem sucked or even remotely implied it, I said at 205 he wasn't nearly as dominant as he has shown to be at HW or in his K-1 bouts.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree those are all very good fights and I never said anything to the contrary. I never said Overeem sucked at 205 or he was a can at 205 or he had 0 talent at 205. He wasnt nearly as dominant at 205 as he has shown at HW or in K-1. Maybe he was too drained from the weight cut I dunno but he's a different fighter at HW. Also with the extra weight he has alot more finishing ability and it makes him that much more dangerous. I said he was top 10 when he was fighting at 205 but that imo he was never in the top 3 or 5 range at that time.


Yea i agree, but i thought you said some thing about overeem never being a great striker in mma, hence my post.


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

*" Originally Posted by streetpunk08 View Post
You guys are nitpicking the shit out of my posts. I never said Overeem sucked or even remotely implied it, I said at 205 he wasn't nearly as dominant as he has shown to be at HW or in his K-1 bouts."*

People here do that, way too much. They sure do it to me, mostly when I say something negative about Bisping or Hardly.
It doesn't matter if it's true, or if it is debatable, they rush to judgment, never mind they didn't see what was written, but what they wanted or thought they saw.
I am torn between answering and just ignoring them. It isn't in my nature to back down from a fight though. Sometimes I wish it was.
Perhaps if they didn't call me an idiot, or worse nothing would be said.
Anyway... having a contrary opinion to the majority will gain you many attacks and neg rep. It's dumb, but whatever.

Here is one of my favorite ironic comments I have received...

"Your dumb"


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Majortom505 said:


> *" Originally Posted by streetpunk08 View Post
> You guys are nitpicking the shit out of my posts. I never said Overeem sucked or even remotely implied it, I said at 205 he wasn't nearly as dominant as he has shown to be at HW or in his K-1 bouts."*
> 
> People here do that, way too much. They sure do it to me, mostly when I say something negative about Bisping or Hardly.
> ...


Who the hell is "Hardly"?!


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Who the hell is "Hardly"?!


Dan Hardly. Hardly an MMA fighter, a boxer.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Majortom505 said:


> Dan Hardly. Hardly an MMA fighter, a boxer.












And you wonder why people call you stupid...


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

I dont really understand the Overeem hype. Maybe, MAYBE, he's good enough for the UFC but he's nowhere near champion caliber. Look at his record. 

Lost to Werdum, lost to Li'l Nog TWICE, lost to Rua TWICE. He's not really all that amazing a fighter IMO. There are much better uses for the UFC's time at HW, Wedrum for one. I would much rather see him with UFC gloves on rather than that prick Overeem.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Squirrelfighter said:


> I dont really understand the Overeem hype. Maybe, MAYBE, he's good enough for the UFC but he's nowhere near champion caliber. Look at his record.
> 
> Lost to Werdum, lost to Li'l Nog TWICE, lost to Rua TWICE. He's not really all that amazing a fighter IMO. There are much better uses for the UFC's time at HW, Wedrum for one. I would much rather see him with UFC gloves on rather than that prick Overeem.


Overeem is on a 9 fight win streak, 8 of those being first round finishes. He hasn't lost in 3 years, and the losses he has are back when he was a lot smaller in a lower division, far from the fighter he is now, against Shogun, one of the greatest in the world, Werdum, who just beat Fedor for crying out loud, and that was 4 years ago, and Nog.

Granted, at this point, he hasn't done enough to be thrown into the UFC and get slammed with a title shot his first fight, but to say he's "MAYBE" UFC calibre is sort of silly. He's without question UFC calibre and would give a lot of people in the UFC HW divison problems, especailly striking.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

If James McSweeney is good enough to get a multi-fight UFC contract then Alistair Overeem is without doubt UFC calibre.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> Overeem is on a 9 fight win streak, 8 of those being first round finishes. He hasn't lost in 3 years, and the losses he has are back when he was a lot smaller in a lower division, far from the fighter he is now, against Shogun, one of the greatest in the world, Werdum, who just beat Fedor for crying out loud, and that was 4 years ago, and Nog.
> 
> Granted, at this point, he hasn't done enough to be thrown into the UFC and get slammed with a title shot his first fight, but to say he's "MAYBE" UFC calibre is sort of silly. He's without question UFC calibre and would give a lot of people in the UFC HW divison problems, especailly striking.


I think we have a differing understanding of my meaning. Seems to make sense since we're bth not in my head. "UFC caliber" is too vague of a term, while he could fight in the UFC his "9" fight win streak doesn't mean a damn thing compared to his comtemporaries in the UFC(champion caliber)

Lets breakdown his "9" wins. 

1. Knee to the balls is not a win, so the Cro Cop fight is out.
2. Brett Rogers(10-2). Coming off 1 loss. 
3. Kazuyuki Fujita(15-9). Coming off 3 losses. 
4. James Thompson(15-13). coming off 5 losses. 
5. Tony Sylvester(11-3). Coming off 1 win. 
6. Gary Goodrich(23-22). Coming off 3 losses. 
7. Mark Hunt(5-6). Coming off 2 losses. 
8. Lee Tae-Hyn(1-2). Coming off 1 win. 
9. Paul Buentello(28-12). Coming off 4 wins. 

Moral: He's fought and defeated 4 opponents with positive records, or more thans barely positve records in 9 fights. He is the definition of a can crusher. He wouldn't last 2 round with a UFC top fiver, and might just manage win against a 6-10er. He's so so far below the UFC's top tier he can't see anything but their shoes.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Squirrelfighter said:


> I think we have a differing understanding of my meaning. Seems to make sense since we're bth not in my head. "UFC caliber" is too vague of a term, while he could fight in the UFC his "9" fight win streak doesn't mean a damn thing compared to his comtemporaries in the UFC(champion caliber)
> 
> Lets breakdown his "9" wins.
> 
> ...


The Cro Cop fight counts because he was destorying Mirko before the knee to the balls. You know very well the fight would have continued the way it was, it's like saying Jones didn't beat Matt. Sure, he lost that fight technically, but he really won it.

Rogers was an undfeated fighter coming off a second round loss to Fedor, not exactly unimpressive, and other than Paul, you are right, they haven't all been top of the line victories, but the fact remains when he does fight medium/medium high competiton (CC, Rogers) he destroys them. The rest are extremely easy first round finishes against guys that someone of his level should be able to easily finish in the first round, and he does.

If he fought in the UFC, I highly doubt he'd have tons of first round finishes, but I do see him beating many in the HW division, especially striking.

He is not at a spot where he should get a title shot quickly, but he is at a spot where, if he were to jump in and face guys like Gonzaga and Mir, he'd end up putting them away, and when fighting guys like Cain, Brock, Carwin, JDS, it would be a lot more difficult, but that's not to say he wouldn't beat some of those guys as well.

He's definitely UFC calibre, he could hang in there easily with medium competition, and could contend at the higher level with some of the top guys.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> The Cro Cop fight counts because he was destorying Mirko before the knee to the balls. You know very well the fight would have continued the way it was, it's like saying Jones didn't beat Matt. Sure, he lost that fight technically, but he really won it.
> 
> Rogers was an undfeated fighter coming off a second round loss to Fedor, not exactly unimpressive, and other than Paul, you are right, they haven't all been top of the line victories, but the fact remains when he does fight medium/medium high competiton (CC, Rogers) he destroys them. The rest are extremely easy first round finishes against guys that someone of his level should be able to easily finish in the first round, and he does.
> 
> ...


As I admited saying he wasn't UFC caliber was inaccurate. But why would the UFC waste money on a fighter who couldn't hang with their top five, maybe even top ten? Werdum on the other hand is much more likely IMPO to be a much bigger, 1. Sale, and 2. Quality fighter, than Overeem could ever be. 

While I admit I overlooked Werdum before he signed to fight Fedor, I took a deeper look before the fight, and liked what I saw(even though I did bet on what I thought was a sure thing!). If the UFC took an interest in Overeem, without trying to get Werdum first, White would have finally slipped off the deep end.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Squirrelfighter said:


> As I admited saying he wasn't UFC caliber was inaccurate. But why would the UFC waste money on a fighter who couldn't hang with their top five, maybe even top ten? Werdum on the other hand is much more likely IMPO to be a much bigger, 1. Sale, and 2. Quality fighter, than Overeem could ever be.
> 
> While I admit I overlooked Werdum before he signed to fight Fedor, I took a deeper look before the fight, and liked what I saw(even though I did bet on what I thought was a sure thing!). If the UFC took an interest in Overeem, without trying to get Werdum first, White would have finally slipped off the deep end.


I believe Werdum is the better fighter as well. I've always said Werdum is a really legit fighter and that on the ground, he gives everyone problems.

Overeem, is in his own right, a solid and legit HW as well, though, and I believe he could most definitely beat everybody in the UFC out of the top 5 in UFC, but even then I could see him beating ALL of them striking, and the only reason they would beat him is if they got him down, which is a possibility, since most of them are wrestlers.

He would beat everyone outside of the UFC's top 5, and if he knocks them out before they take him down, he could even beat them.

You are right in that Werdum is not only more marketable now that he beat Fedor, but he's better, but that doesn't mean Overeem couldn't contend at the top of the UFC HW division.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

I think Dana is an idiot. Or just acted like one in this situation!
He is talking crap about Overeem and using one of the most stupid excuse i've ever heard: Chuck beat him 7 years ago!!! That is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard.
That guy is not Overeem, the 2010 version. It has no sense talking again about the fact that this Overeem is 90% another fighter. He is twice as big!:sarcastic12: 
Plus...fighters do get better. Even if they lose badly. Some of them have the ambition and the heart to learn from losses and try and evolve, as fighters and as humans.

And it seems there is no place for Overeem in the UFC...but Dana signed Yvel this year, a guy with 15 losses. Or ... there is Hardonk, Mc Sweeney, Perosh...

BTW: i like this picture. YUP. He lost in 2003. He is not that good!


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

I agree with MC!

I don't know why people overlook Overeem that much and give him zero recognition. I had my battle in this thread already so I won't start again.

For me Overeem could make a Title run in the UFC! And for me he is already a top 5 HW in the World right now.

If anybody needs to be in the UFC.. he is that guy!


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Why cant people recognise and understand talent and ability when it is staring them in the face? Overeem is the of the most talented HW prospects at the moment and people need to realise this. On top of that he is also the most experienced. 

Overeem is easily the best striker in the HW division, how you can claim "maybe he is ufc calibre" is ridiculous. K-1, elite level striker with knock out power in his hands, elbows, knees and feet. I think Overeem has the most devastating knees in mma period, they are brutal.

On top of his world class striking, he is also a great all rounder. People always bring up rua or lidell or nog and it annoys me. Did you guys watch those fights? I mean c'mon, give him some credit. He was dominating rua, dominating lidell and dominating nog for almost the entire fight. He gassed in each of those fights, got sloppy and got finished. Im not making excuses, cardio and gas tank are essential attributes when competing at the highest level, but now that overeem has transformed into this HW monster i cant see his cardio or gas tank being an issue.

The only fighters in the ufc i see stopping overeem are the wrestlers. Cain, Brock and maybe Carwin. Outside these top 3 guys, i cant see any one who overeem couldnt beat.


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## Johnni G (Dec 2, 2009)

Lol. Overeem doesn't even have good stats.


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## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> I agree with MC!
> 
> I don't know why people overlook Overeem that much and give him zero recognition. I had my battle in this thread already so I won't start again.
> 
> ...


I agree with you and McKeever, it seems that so many people feel that if you're not in the UFC then you have no cred. While the UFC is without a doubt the biggest and the best they're not the be all end all of mma. There's a lot of great fighters in other org's out there. Hell boy Hansen, Eddie Alvarez, Mousasi, Lawal, Jake Shields, Aoki (even though I can't stand the whiny little fucker) Badr Hari(would be awesome in mma if he ever wanted to learn it). As for Overeem he is not the fighter he was when he was fighting Chuck,Shogun or Lil Nog, I can just about gaurantee those fights wouldn't have the same ending today.


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## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> I believe Werdum is the better fighter as well. I've always said Werdum is a really legit fighter and that on the ground, he gives everyone problems.
> 
> Overeem, is in his own right, a solid and legit HW as well, though, and I believe he could most definitely beat everybody in the UFC out of the top 5 in UFC, but even then I could see him beating ALL of them striking, and the only reason they would beat him is if they got him down, which is a possibility, since most of them are wrestlers.
> 
> ...


Overeem isn't a tool on the ground, granted his best asset is his striking but he does have submission wins on his record. But I'll have to agree that a good wrestler is the best weapon against a strong striker.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Overeem was hyped to all hell when he got a KO over Badr Hari and now he's being hyped again after beating Brett Rodgers.

I don't get where people are seeing this potential. The only thing that's changed is he has more mass. He's lost every legit MMA match he's had and he's a mediocre K-1 striker.

Could someone show me what makes him so great all of the sudden?


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## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

Squirrelfighter said:


> I think we have a differing understanding of my meaning. Seems to make sense since we're bth not in my head. "UFC caliber" is too vague of a term, while he could fight in the UFC his "9" fight win streak doesn't mean a damn thing compared to his comtemporaries in the UFC(champion caliber)
> 
> Lets breakdown his "9" wins.
> 
> ...


Your same arguement for Overeem not being a top level UFC calibar fighter could very well be used to say Fedor isn't a top level UFC fighter. His last fights were against UFC fighters that had been let go because they were'nt winning, regardless of the fact they were former champs. Fedor finally fought a top level fighter one that wasn't on his way to doing just regional fight promotions and he lost. Also by my math Overeem's opponents with + records is 6, your numbers 7 and 8 are the only ones with - records.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

dave-stjohn said:


> Your same arguement for Overeem not being a top level UFC calibar fighter could very well be used to say Fedor isn't a top level UFC fighter. His last fights were against UFC fighters that had been let go because they were'nt winning, regardless of the fact they were former champs. Fedor finally fought a top level fighter one that wasn't on his way to doing just regional fight promotions and he lost. Also by my math Overeem's opponents with + records is 6, your numbers 7 and 8 are the only ones with - records.


Wait, so your counter argument is that the same thing could be said about another fighter? That's moronic. Fedor has nothing to do with this.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Overeem is a monster. Noone in mmma can outstrike him, and if those big wrestlers try to take him down, his guillotine is probably the best in the division. Your only chance is to survive the early barrage and get him into the later rounds and wear him out. Easier said then done. But imo, he is top 5 for sure.

You cant look at what a fighter did 7 years ago. Fighters evolve as they fill out later in their career. Overeem fits this bill.


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## Jason12 (May 8, 2010)

While I think everyone can agree that Dana white is incredibly biased, he is right. Fact is Overeem hasnt beat really anybody you would consider top heavyweights so to say he would contend with top-tier UFC guys like Lesnar, Carwin, Velasquez, etc is fairly ridiculous. 

People are basing his performances against middle of the pack fighters and using that to compare how he would do against top fighters. You shouldnt get any credit for being a top heavyweight if you havent beat any top heavyweights. Houston Alexander looked damn good fighting average guys, im not comparing Alexander to Overeem im just saying until he fights a Werdum, Fedor or top UFC heavyweights you cant just put him in the top 5.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

jdun11 said:


> Overeem is a monster. Noone in mmma can outstrike him, and if those big wrestlers try to take him down, his guillotine is probably the best in the division. Your only chance is to survive the early barrage and get him into the later rounds and wear him out. Easier said then done. But imo, he is top 5 for sure.
> 
> You cant look at what a fighter did 7 years ago. Fighters evolve as they fill out later in their career. Overeem fits this bill.


Okay, so lets take a look at what he's done recently. He's beaten Gary Goodridge, Tony Sylvester, James Thompson, Fujita, and most recently Brett Rogers. How does that equate to him being a monster at all?

Then add on his mediocre K-1 and MMA career and you are left with nothing even close to a monster.

You're all hyping him up just because he put on some mass. Overeem would be a gatekeeper in the UFC and nothing more.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

MikeHawk said:


> Okay, so lets take a look at what he's done recently. He's beaten Gary Goodridge, Tony Sylvester, James Thompson, Fujita, and most recently Brett Rogers. How does that equate to him being a monster at all?
> 
> Then add on his mediocre K-1 and MMA career and you are left with nothing even close to a monster.
> 
> You're all hyping him up just because he put on some mass. Overeem would be a gatekeeper in the UFC and nothing more.


Agreed. Overeem has to beat someone to have me say he deserves to be at the top 5 in the HW division. 5 of his last six opponent were coming off of losses when they fought Overeem and most had multiple losses coming into the fight. One even lost to Chris Tuscherer beat a no named person and then fought Overeem. It is really sad that he is considered so great when he has fought... no one recently.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

NikosCC said:


> Source-http://www.mmamania.com/


OMG!! Dana!!! Shogun is your #1 LHW and Champion??!!! And he lost to Strikeforces Babalu???!!!

And Chael Sonnen is your #1 Middleweight contender and he lost to Babalu too??!!!

omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomg!!!!! Really ridiculous. Of course Babalu would have a much harder time defeating Shogun these days.

And Chuck Liddell would have a very short ride in the cage with Alastair. This comment by Dana is a moot point.



SJ said:


> I think he's way, WAY over rated for beating another guy who I thought was not very good at all (Brett Rogers). I understand he has a resume with much more on it, but a lot of this talk seems to have popped up just because he tossed a completely inferior and intimidated fighter in Rogers.
> 
> He's accomplished some sick things in his career, but there has NEVER been any sign of consistency with him and I'm not convinced he won't just get laid on or flash KO'd a lot in a top 10 UFC career.
> 
> ...


The thing is we had never see Rogers destroyed like that.. hell he even looked real tough against Fedor until he got blasted coming in...

What he did to Rogers nobody has been able to do...

I don't consider him the best HW in the game.. I'd put him at around number six or seven. And that's being kind.

But the Rogers victory was impressive. He's beaten Vitor Belfort twice as well. I like his win over Sergi Kharinotov...

As far as people saying that Brett Rogers is a can, well if losing to Fedor and Overeem makes you a can than 90% of MMA HWs are cans becuase they'd get mopped by Alastair and Fedor.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> OMG!! Dana!!! Shogun is your #1 LHW and Champion??!!! And he lost to Strikeforces Babalu???!!!
> 
> And Chael Sonnen is your #1 Middleweight contender and he lost to Babalu too??!!!
> 
> ...


People are saying he is because he has no right to be in the cage with Fedor, and then Overeem. He beat AA who had a glass chin and he really did not look that great against Fedor. Fedor tossed him around like a rag doll. Rogers would get destroyed by a lot of the top ten guys, beaten by all.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

The505Butcher said:


> People are saying he is because he has no right to be in the cage with Fedor, and then Overeem. He beat AA who had a glass chin and he really did not look that great against Fedor. Fedor tossed him around like a rag doll. Rogers would get destroyed by a lot of the top ten guys, beaten by all.


You know I hear part of what your saying. But we really don't know that.


He lost to Fedor and Overeem. Those are his only two losses. All I'm saying is 90% of MMA HWs would lose those those 2 fights.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> You know I hear part of what your saying. But we really don't know that.
> 
> 
> He lost to Fedor and Overeem. Those are his only two losses. All I'm saying is 90% of MMA HWs would lose those those 2 fights.


Yes but out of those two fights... he lost. He has fought Arlovski and got an intimidating KO and then everyone was saying he was greater than Carwin and Cain. Then he gets Owned by Fedor and Overeem and everyone is back to not caring about him. Until he has a win over a top ten opponent he will be considered a can IMO.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

The505Butcher said:


> Yes but out of those two fights... he lost. He has fought Arlovski and got an intimidating KO and then everyone was saying he was greater than Carwin and Cain. Then he gets Owned by Fedor and Overeem and everyone is back to not caring about him. Until he has a win over a top ten opponent he will be considered a can IMO.


I don't recall him as being considered over Cain or Carwin but than again I may have missed those threads.

I wouldn't mind seeing him fight another legitimate HW. 

I can't consider him a can until I see him against somebody else. I want to see him fight DelRosario, Bigfoot, Kharinotov, or Johnson.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> I don't recall him as being considered over Cain or Carwin but than again I may have missed those threads.
> 
> I wouldn't mind seeing him fight another legitimate HW.
> 
> I can't consider him a can until I see him against somebody else. I want to see him fight DelRosario, Bigfoot, Kharinotov, or Johnson.


He was ranked like 6th at one time with Cain and Carwin below him before the Fedor fight. Then he was dropped below Carwin when he lost. Then Carwin and CAin shot up when they beat Mir/Nog. Finally now he is back out of the top ten where he belongs. I agree. We really should not say he is a can until he has fought a ate keeper type fighter. But I believe people are justified in calling him a can against Overeem and Fedor... and I don't even like Overeem.


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## zkorejo (Jul 3, 2010)

Dana isnt even talking about Overeem.



> "Here we go. Alistair Overeem is gonna be the new guy? Alistsair Overeem got knocked out by Chuck Liddell at 205. *You know what’s funny? Because we don’t have him signed he’ll be the new guy.* The guy that Chuck knocked out at 205. *All the UFC haters will be like, ‘oh yeah, this guy is the best.’ And all the idiot websites will rank him the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world."*


Here he clearly indicates to all the hate he is/was getting for not being able to bring Fedor to the UFC. 

Or atleast thats how it seems to me.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Why cant people recognise and understand talent and ability when it is staring them in the face? Overeem is the of the most talented HW prospects at the moment and people need to realise this. On top of that he is also the most experienced.
> 
> Overeem is easily the best striker in the HW division, how you can claim "maybe he is ufc calibre" is ridiculous. K-1, elite level striker with knock out power in his hands, elbows, knees and feet. I think Overeem has the most devastating knees in mma period, they are brutal.
> 
> ...


So...the dancing monkey speaks. Nice job quoting me without actually quoting me. 



dave-stjohn said:


> Your same arguement for Overeem not being a top level UFC calibar fighter could very well be used to say Fedor isn't a top level UFC fighter. His last fights were against UFC fighters that had been let go because they were'nt winning, regardless of the fact they were former champs. Fedor finally fought a top level fighter one that wasn't on his way to doing just regional fight promotions and he lost. Also by my math Overeem's opponents with + records is 6, your numbers 7 and 8 are the only ones with - records.


I think there is significant debate as to whether Fedor would succeed in the UFC, just as there is with Overeem. However Fedor has approx the same number of wins, with only 2 losses, 11 fdor Overeem. However Overeem has approx ten more fights. So there's much debate there as well. 

Comparing opponents, Fedor's overall in his career had much higher quality than Overeem. While Overeem is consistantly crushing cans, and has been for the majority of his career, Fedor was fighting the who's who of kings of the sport at the time and winning. I know Overeem was smaller in the past, and his quality now comparitively to then is also up for debate. I believe he is superior to his older self, but only to a protracted degree, and any advantage he has now over his old self is purely based in his size not advancing technique. 

I personally believe Overeem will suffer the same fate as Fedor when he fights a top level competitor. But that's just my opinion based on his previous performances and my appraisal of his abilities, but again, its just my personal opinion. 

And I am aware two of those had winning records who I counted, but I said barely positive records as well, and 15-13 and 23-22 are barely positive records. Fighters who win one, lose one are by definition cans or over the hill.


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