# Ricardo Arona eyes return to Abu Dhabi Combat Club (ADCC) in 2009



## Walker (May 27, 2007)

> *Ricardo Arona eyes return to Abu Dhabi Combat Club (ADCC) in 2009*
> 
> By: Jesse Holland
> 
> ...


From:
http://mmamania.com/2009/01/15/ricardo-arona-eyes-return-to-abu-dhabi-combat-club-in-2009/

Good to see he might be back into competing but, jesus christ don't try and talk Filho into it. I don't want to see that guy compete at ping-pong until he gets his shit together.

I watched the re-air of his last WEC fight verus Sonnen and that's some of the most bizarre crap I've seen during a fight.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Why does it not shock me that Filho doesn't want to participate? The guy will probably never fight again. Never compete again. Nothing.

Then again, neither will Arona, but him in ADCC is interesting. He was a beast back then. His match with JJM was great. He passed JJM's guard and got his back. Unreal shit. You can talk about MMA all you want, but that was Arona's best performance.


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## SlaveTrade (Apr 27, 2007)

Arona in ADCC is very interesting.

He was unbelievable a few years back.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Arona in ADCC is some fun stuff.

I hate his MMA style but in ADCC sometimes he actually does things.

Hopefully we get some fun match ups in the absolute tourny Arona vs Marcelo would make me a happy happy man.

How about Arona vs Fedor ADCC style?

I don't think Arona will win but he has a name which has value.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

You don't think Arona would beat Fedor in an ADCC match? I certainly do.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I meant the whole tourny I don't see Arona winning the whole tourny.

I think Fedor will get destroyed in ADCC. Just like he would have a hell of a time if he was competing in K-1.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Damone said:


> Why does it not shock me that Filho doesn't want to participate? The guy will probably never fight again. Never compete again. Nothing.
> 
> Then again, neither will Arona, but him in ADCC is interesting. He was a beast back then. His match with JJM was great. He passed JJM's guard and got his back. Unreal shit. You can talk about MMA all you want, but that was Arona's best performance.


Arona's been busy surfing and building his new gym, I believe he said he'd be back fighting this year in a recent interview.




bbjd7 said:


> I meant the whole tourny I don't see Arona winning the whole tourny.
> 
> I think Fedor will get destroyed in ADCC. Just like he would have a hell of a time if he was competing in K-1.


I think that's kind of silly to say bbjd. I mean, Fedor's a multiple time world Champion in ***** and a brown belt in Judo, he is far from a noob on the ground. 

Secondly, ADCC isn't a BJJ tournament, it's a submission grappling tournament and Fedor's credentials as a grappler are even better than his credentials as a mixed martial artist. He's just as qualified to be there as any of the top BJJ guys, so I think you should ease-up on the "getting destroyed" bit.

He's definitely going to miss using his ground and pound to set-up passes. I could see guys like Arona potentially beating him by points, but I don't see him being "destroyed".


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

It depends on how deep the tournament is.

Werdum, Pe de Pano, Xande, Maia, Jacare, Gonzaga, Drysdale, and Roger would all beat Fedor clearly in ADCC.

However If not all those guys are competing I could see him doing ok not winning but at least winning a couple rounds.

I know it's not BJJ but BJJ guys dominant it because they have the best submissions in the world.


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## cezwan (Dec 7, 2007)

whats the story with arona not going to the UFC?

i would love to see him there.. LOVE..

he would go so well, destroy people..

ill never get over how he left Sakuraba.. that made me not like him for a while.. it was just mean.. lol..


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> It depends on how deep the tournament is.
> 
> Werdum, Pe de Pano, Xande, Maia, Jacare, Gonzaga, Drysdale, and Roger would all beat Fedor clearly in ADCC.


You're making assumptions based on what you know of those guys, not Fedor. How many pure grappling competitions have you seen him in? Those guys are certainly top of the food chain grapplers, but Fedor's no slouch on the ground. 




bbjd7 said:


> However If not all those guys are competing I could see him doing ok not winning but at least winning a couple rounds.
> 
> I know it's not BJJ but BJJ guys dominant it because they have the best submissions in the world.


It's arguably the best submission style in the world, but even BJJ practitioners can get caught by grapplers in other martial arts. Look at Helio Gracie, he had his arm broken by Masahiko Kimura, a Judoka.

Fedor's strength, submission defense, and top game is phenomenal, so I could see him outpointing even some of the top guys. He's certainly not a write-off against them. :dunno:


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

First off Helio Gracie while an amazing man was a very weak small guy. A Judoka beating him isn't shocking.

Also that was decades ago. Now days grappling is controlled by BJJ guys.

I've not seen Fedor in pure grappling but from what I've seen of his ground game it's not going to do great in ADCC.

Without punches I think he will have real problems. His bottom game isn't going to submit guys with world class grappling and on top I don't see him passing these top guys guards and you don't get points for being in your opponents guards.


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## Meshuggeth (May 26, 2008)

I CANNOT wait to see Fedor in ADCC. Is Mousasi still competing?


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> First off Helio Gracie while an amazing man was a very weak small guy. A Judoka beating him isn't shocking.


Size doesn't really matter, Kimura wasn't THAT larger of an opponent. He beat Helio based-on technique, hence why the Gracie's named a submission in their martial art after him.



bbjd7 said:


> Also that was decades ago. Now days grappling is controlled by BJJ guys.


Like I said, it's not unheard of for BJJ practitioners to be outgrappled by members of other martial arts.



bbjd7 said:


> I've not seen Fedor in pure grappling but from what I've seen of his ground game it's not going to do great in ADCC.


I don't see why he won't do well in ADCC. He's powerful and he'll be able to control most of the guys he faces. He'll have problems submitting upper echelon BJJ guys, but the more technical *****-specific footlocks aren't commonly used in world grappling competitions, which could play in Fedor's favor.



bbjd7 said:


> Without punches I think he will have real problems. His bottom game isn't going to submit guys with world class grappling and on top I don't see him passing these top guys guards and you don't get points for being in your opponents guards.


You don't get points for just holding your opponent in your guard either. These guys will take risks off their backs and that will leave potential opportunities for passing, even if they're momentary.

I just think you're overlooking Fedor's grappling skills because he doesn't have a BJJ belt, which is just a narrow way of assessing his ability. 



Meshuggeth said:


> I CANNOT wait to see Fedor in ADCC. Is Mousasi still competing?


I believe so.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

It's going to be interesting to see Fedor in ADCC. I've been wanting to see him compete with world class grapplers forever now.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Damone said:


> It's going to be interesting to see Fedor in ADCC. I've been wanting to see him compete with world class grapplers forever now.


Likewise, it'll be interesting to see how his ***** skills measure up. I don't expect the same sort of dominance we see from him in MMA, but I do expect him to have a relatively good showing.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> Size doesn't really matter, Kimura wasn't THAT larger of an opponent. He beat Helio based-on technique, hence why the Gracie's named a submission in their martial art after him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A kimura has a lot to do with strength and Judoka's are amazingly strong men. I'm sure Helio being small had an impact on him being put in a kimura.

I agree.

He's powerful but I'm not sure what he is going to be able to do against top guys. Barnett who is a very good MMA grappler in his own right didn't do all that well in ADCC.

Fedor will probably win a round or two and while I don't see him getting submitted by most guys maybe Roger Gracie or Xande I do think that they will score points with sweeps and beat him.
I don't mind the fact he doesn't have a BJJ black belt my boy Jake Rosholt and Johny Hendricks have been doing great in American grappling tournaments without BJJ Blackbelts.

It's because I've watched Fedor's fight and I think his grappling while very good in an MMA sense I think without GnP his grappling game will be very messed up.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> A kimura has a lot to do with strength and Judoka's are amazingly strong men. I'm sure Helio being small had an impact on him being put in a kimura.


I wouldn't say that a kimura has a lot to do with strength, the technical leverage employed is far more pivotal than being strong. 



bbjd7 said:


> He's powerful but I'm not sure what he is going to be able to do against top guys. Barnett who is a very good MMA grappler in his own right didn't do all that well in ADCC.
> 
> Fedor will probably win a round or two and while I don't see him getting submitted by most guys maybe Roger Gracie or Xande I do think that they will score points with sweeps and beat him.
> 
> ...


I agree, I just don't think you should necessarily be writing him off the way you seemed to be in your first post. It's not like he isn't a highly qualified grappler in his own right.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Strength has a huge amount to do with a kimura. Honestly a lot of Kimura defense can come down to strength.

Look at the Kimura Jacare put on Marcelo.

Yes the technique was perfect but a lot of it had to do with him just being physically stronger then Marcelo.

I don't think Fedor is going to do terrible I just think against the best grapplers in the world he is going to have some real issues with the better guys especially if he gets put on his back because while his game off his back is good a top grappler would control him IMO.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> Strength has a huge amount to do with a kimura. Honestly a lot of Kimura defense can come down to strength.


It can make a difference, but leverage created by technique is still more important IMO. Strength only really becomes a huge factor in the open-weight tournaments, when guys aren't evenly matched in size. Helio was 5'9" 176lbs and Kimura was 5'6" and 185lbs, so while there was a slight size difference, I think it had a lot more to do with technique, especially seeing as Helio admitted to being choked unconscious earlier in the match as well.

You've probably read this before, but I figured I'd post this for anyone who hasn't because it's really interesting in regard to Gracie/Kimura:



> "20,000 people came to see the bout including President of Brazil. Helio was 180cm and 80 kg. When I entered the stadium, I found a coffin. I asked what it was. I was told, "This is for Kimura. Helio brought this in." It was so funny that I almost burst into laughter. As I approached the ring, raw eggs were thrown at me. The gong rang. Helio grabbed me in both lapels, and attacked me with O-soto-gari and Kouchi-gari. But they did not move me at all. Now it's my turn. I blew him away up in the air by O-uchi-gari, Harai-goshi, Uchimata, Ippon-seoi. At about 10 minute mark, I threw him by O-soto-gari. I intended to cause a concussion. But since the mat was so soft that it did not have much impact on him. While continuing to throw him, I was thinking of a finishing method. I threw him by O-soto-gari again. As soon as Helio fell, I pinned him by Kuzure-kami-shiho-gatame. I held still for 2 or 3 minutes, and then tried to smother him by belly. Helio shook his head trying to breathe. He could not take it any longer, and tried to push up my body extending his left arm. That moment, I grabbed his left wrist with my right hand, and twisted up his arm. I applied Udegarami. I thought he would surrender immediately. But Helio would not tap the mat. I had no choice but keep on twisting the arm. The stadium became quiet. The bone of his arm was coming close to the breaking point. Finally, the sound of bone breaking echoed throughout the stadium. Helio still did not surrender. His left arm was already powerless. Under this rule, I had no choice but twist the arm again. There was plenty of time left. I twisted the left arm again. Another bone was broken. Helio still did not tap. When I tried to twist the arm once more, a white towel was thrown in. I won by TKO. My hand was raised high. Japanese Brazilians rushed into the ring and tossed me up in the air. On the other hand, Helio let his left arm hang and looked very sad withstanding the pain."(Wikipedia)


 


bbjd7 said:


> Look at the Kimura Jacare put on Marcelo.
> 
> Yes the technique was perfect but a lot of it had to do with him just being physically stronger then Marcelo.


Jacare's much larger than Marcelo though, whereas Helio and Masahiko were pretty much the same size. Perhaps Kimura had more functional strength, but it was really his technical ability that won him his fight against Helio (twice, seeing as he executed a choke and kimura perfectly).





bbjd7 said:


> I don't think Fedor is going to do terrible I just think against the best grapplers in the world he is going to have some real issues with the better guys especially if he gets put on his back because while his game off his back is good a top grappler would control him IMO.


It'll be interesting to see, the closest indicator we have of Fedor as a grappler are his RINGS fights from years ago, and since then he's come along leaps and bounds on the ground.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I'm not trying to trash Kimura at all. Guys who train in other things besides BJJ can beat BJJ guys on the ground no question. 

Just using Helio Gracie IMO is kinda a weak example because Helio wasn't exactly dominant when he went and competed against others.

Sakuraba beating on the Gracie's is a great example of it IMO. But Helio wasn't exactly a great fighter. No offense to the man he's amazing and helped create IMO the most effective Martial art.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> Just using Helio Gracie IMO is kinda a weak example because Helio wasn't exactly dominant when he went and competed against others.


I wouldn't say it's a weak example at all, he was the best BJJ practitioner in the world at the time, he understood the art more than anyone else because he is the one who essentially created it for the smaller fighter. He had a bunch of draws, and a few losses, but so do top grapplers even today.



bbjd7 said:


> Sakuraba beating on the Gracie's is a great example of it IMO. But Helio wasn't exactly a great fighter. No offense to the man he's amazing and helped create IMO the most effective Martial art.


That's another very good example, I agree that Helio wasn't a great fighter, but he was a great grappler for his time. Obviously BJJ has been refined ever further by the elites of today, but you have to recognize that in his day Helio was an elite.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

O I agree but at that time it was BJJ vs Judo.

The thing about BJJ is that it has combined very well with other things like wrestling and now it is the dominant Martial Art in both MMA and Grappling.


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## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

I agree with both of you, Fedor should do well in ADCC and also I think BJJ is a superior grappling art than ***** for ADCC (in MMA they both excell). It would be a dream to watch Fedor go against the best BJJ artists in the world. I for one would love to see how Maia, Jacare, Marcello, and some of the other smaller guys do against Fedor in a pure grappling enviroment. Am I mistaken in thinking that the UFC wont allow its guys to compete in ADCC?


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

UFC guys can compete in ADCC they just need to not have a fight scheduled.


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## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

Helio is an absolute LEGEND, the man at 95 years old is still teaching Gracie Jiu Jitsu. There are not many people that deserve my respect more than Helio Gracie, for what he was able to accomplish with his frail body and the ever evolving martial art he created I will be forever thankful.



bbjd7 said:


> UFC guys can compete in ADCC they just need to not have a fight scheduled.


Awesome, thanks for the info.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> O I agree but at that time it was BJJ vs Judo.
> 
> The thing about BJJ is that it has combined very well with other things like wrestling and now it is the dominant Martial Art in both MMA and Grappling.


We don't get to see a lot of ***** unfortunately, I'm excited to see how it translates in ADCC under someone with Fedor's credentials. I'm pretty pumped in general for ADCC this year, do they usually stream it on the internet or do we have to wait a few days for the videos to pop-up online?


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

ProElite.com aired it last time but IDK if they are still going to for obvious reasons.

As far as ***** goes I wish we would see more world class ***** guys because I think Fedor might be a great grappler and have great ***** not that great *****=great grappling.

Kinda like Judo.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> ProElite.com aired it last time but IDK if they are still going to for obvious reasons.
> 
> As far as ***** goes I wish we would see more world class ***** guys because I think Fedor might be a great grappler and have great ***** not that great *****=great grappling.
> 
> Kinda like Judo.


We'll just have to wait and see. :dunno:


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Arona is definitely in. :thumbsup:



> Arona confirmed for ADCC
> 
> 
> 
> ...


From:
http://www.graciemag.com/news/144/ARTICLE/13075/2009-01-22.html


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Fantastic news, ADCC 2009 is certainly shaping up.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

To bad there is no Jacare.


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## GodlyMoose (May 20, 2007)

He looked a lot bigger than 99k kg when I last saw him, he must have lost some muscle and got back to his normal walking weight when he was in MMA.

If he does as well as he did in the past, I see him doing very well. 

Arona's style makes a bad matchup for almost everyone. He has great takedowns, great guard passing, and is great at maintainung top positions. His style neutralizes, controls, and systematically acquires points with muscled out conservative style. Nobody likes that, even though it is highly effective for tournaments.

Being huge, strong and just insanely skilled at stalling positions and getting points is what Arona is good at, and he's damn good at it.

The guy is a monster, he is the only undefeated ADCC champ. Not only that, he hasn't even gotten one point scored against him in his entire ADCC career.


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## randyspankstito (Sep 25, 2006)

That's great. When are him and Dana going to have a little chat?


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

randyspankstito said:


> That's great. When are him and Dana going to have a little chat?


Hopefully after ADCC, Arona's style is perfectly suited to the UFC, I think he'd be able to finish a lot more fights in a cage.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> I think that's kind of silly to say bbjd. I mean, Fedor's a multiple time world Champion in ***** and a brown belt in Judo, he is far from a noob on the ground.


Fedor is definitely a black belt in Judo, not a brown belt.


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## Zemelya (Sep 23, 2007)

Have you guys see Fedor's seminar (in slovakia I think)? 
Some of the moves he got are on different level than most of stuff i have seen, it think he already went beyond ***** and Judo.

Thank God we will have the opportunity to see how he handles himself at ADCC.

Anyone know when it's happening and what are the ways to see it?


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> Fedor is definitely a black belt in Judo, not a brown belt.


I thought so, I just wasn't sure. All I came across online was brown-belt, but it's been a while since his judo has been discussed, so I'm not shocked he's a black belt. Didn't want to say something that I wasn't entirely sure of, but thanks for clarifying. :thumb02:


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## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> I wouldn't say it's a weak example at all, he was the best BJJ practitioner in the world at the time, he understood the art more than anyone else because he is the one who essentially created it for the smaller fighter. He had a bunch of draws, and a few losses, but so do top grapplers even today.
> 
> 
> 
> That's another very good example, I agree that Helio wasn't a great fighter, but he was a great grappler for his time. Obviously BJJ has been refined ever further by the elites of today, but you have to recognize that in his day Helio was an elite.


What made Kimura's victory legit IMO is the fact that it was Judo vs BJJ match. If it was MMA, Kimura's strength would have been a bigger factor. 
On the other hand I don't agree that sakuraba vs gracies is a good example. He used his wrestling skills to stay off the ground and beat them, so he didn't actually outgrapple them. Yes, he finished royler and renzo with kimura, but he didn't fight them on the ground until the end. It was more a MMA vs BJJ then Catch vs BJJ.


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## randyspankstito (Sep 25, 2006)

Fedor>all said:


> Hopefully after ADCC, Arona's style is perfectly suited to the UFC, I think he'd be able to finish a lot more fights in a cage.


That would be sick. He was one of my favorite guys from Pride.


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