# Machida's dad: My son 'must' face Anderson Silva



## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Machida's dad: My son 'must' face Anderson Silva 
January 11, 2010 03:34 PM 


http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... on-silva/1

http://www.mmamania.com/2010/1/12/1246934/machida-s-dad-my-son-must-face

Light-heavyweight champion Lyoto Machida and middleweight titleholder Anderson Silva have said repeatedly they don't want to fight each other because they're pals and training partners, but Machida's dad wants friendship put aside temporarily.

PVT Mag has a terrific interview online with Yoshizo Machida, who trains his son. The father agrees with many mixed martial arts fans who want to see a champion-vs.-champion fight between his son and Silva: 

There is only one champion, so I believe this fight must happen. It's a professional issue, and I believe they can fight. Deep down, everyone wants to know who is strongest. Friendship is friendship, but they're not amateurs. The eventual winner isn't my concern. What matters to me is how they win, and their strategy. This would be a mental battle.

He also delves into Mauricio "Shogun" Rua's success during the controversial bout with Lyoto Machida at UFC 104 in October: 

Karate also has its weaknesses, and no one had seen them up until now. Shogun exploited them, and deserves congratulations. ...

Had Shogun fought as he normally does, with his arms, Lyoto would've knocked him out in the first or second round. We did not expect him to kick that much and neglected the karate defense, which is different from the Muay Thai defense. Before the kick, you move up and stop the attack.

* I hope this fight will happen.*


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Intresting...


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

coldcall420 said:


> Intresting...


...My thoughts exactly coldcall...


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I found this to be a very interesting read as well. It's good to hear someone so close to Machida come out and say this.


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## Redrum (Jan 30, 2008)

Wow, that is pretty dramatic.

I personally do not see what the issue is. I would not want to fight any friend of mine out of personal animus. However, if I and any friend were both involved in a combat sport, and a match between us was suggested, I believe that I could do it based upon the good of the sport.

I have full contact sparred a number of friends earlier in my life. I hit them, they hit me, we were friends after, just as we were before. I also trained with these friends, they knew my style, my strengths, and my weaknesses, just as I knew theirs. I would like to see Lyoto and Anderson in the cage. I think it would be an awesome match. These are two top notch fighters. I think their refusal to do so hurts the sport just a bit.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

For the 1-500k paycheck my friend and I would receive, I would fight anyone of my friends... Then go get a beer afterwords. There are different levels of such actions being acceptable in situations with certain friends. It is a trust and mutual respect that you could fight a friend without consequences.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...Come to think of it, seeing Anderson & Lyoto bang would be surreal. Everyone would want to see it. I think it would be the most amazing stand-up chess match that's ever been in the UFC. If they both fought like they didn't know each other, I think we would see one of the best fights in history. The fact that they have been close makes a difference. Would one _really_want to beat the other? It would probably go the distance with a close decision...


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## Maximus (May 17, 2007)

On paper it has the makings for most epic fight ever. However, we've seen what Silva looks like in a fight that he's not interested in and he's repeatedly stated that he does not want this fight. 

Machida's father may want this fight, but Lyoto doesn't and if we see two fighters that are both uninterested in their fight against one another, its going to be a 5 round snooze fest.


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## Ground'N'Pound5 (Aug 7, 2009)

hopefully its possible for the fight


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...What would make Lyoto's father want his son to fight Anderson? It should be their decision not his. It just all sounds retarded...:confused02:


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Redrum said:


> Wow, that is pretty dramatic.
> 
> I personally do not see what the issue is. I would not want to fight any friend of mine out of personal animus. However, if I and any friend were both involved in a combat sport, and a match between us was suggested, I believe that I could do it based upon the good of the sport.
> 
> I have full contact sparred a number of friends earlier in my life. I hit them, they hit me, we were friends after, just as we were before. I also trained with these friends, they knew my style, my strengths, and my weaknesses, just as I knew theirs. I would like to see Lyoto and Anderson in the cage. I think it would be an awesome match. These are two top notch fighters. I think their refusal to do so hurts the sport just a bit.


This. And it's not like they won't be extremely well compensated for their efforts.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Machida destroyed his brother in a fight... why would he not fight Silva?


It'd be a boring match from a non-technical aspect and IMO Machida wins this 9/10 times.


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## MexHaHaHa (Mar 20, 2009)

Machida wins this? Maybe if he actually beat Shogun I would agree with this...but Shogun showed how human Machida is, I believe Silva would KO him.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Mex said:


> Machida wins this? Maybe if he actually beat Shogun I would agree with this...but Shogun showed how human Machida is, I believe Silva would KO him.



Silva has never faced anyone near Machida or Shogun's standup level...


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## Mjr (Apr 22, 2007)

swpthleg said:


> This. And it's not like they won't be extremely well compensated for their efforts.


Yup, It's a little sad that so many fighters at a top level refuse to face each other. I understand it I really do, but the fans basically pay their salary, I think numerous fighters need to learn to put aside the friendship for one night. Especially when fighters associated with the same gym/camp refuse to face each other regardless of their friendship level. The elite level is so small to have fighters refusing to fight others.

Also props to Lyoto's dad for recognizing what happened in the fight and not making excuses. He also kind of puts pressure on Lyoto and Anderson by declaring his wishes for them to fight publicly. 

As for the fight itself, I think they would nullify each other. Machida refusing to engage against a striker with amazing kicks, and Anderson not wanting to disgrace or hurt his friends same as in the Leites fight. Anderson is also smart enough to play into Lyoto's game plan like so many fighters before him have done, Silva has also showed he has amazing patience and discipline. Hopefully it wouldn't be boring, and turns into be a technical match.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Moving this to the UFC section.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Haha @ Dad!

Strip away the kung-fu fighter element and you've got the good old archetypal Dad trying to make his son do shit, and the son saying "Feck off old man".

There are 101 things my pops would love me to do that I dont. I do like the romantic notion that Machidas relationship with his dad is still like it was when he was 8. eg. Being 100% respectful and never disobeying. The reality is probably nothing like that! Lyoto probably does loads of stuff in his fights that make his dad go:


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

I don't see why not, it's a competitive bout not a blood hatred. Test each other's skills, see who wins, see who deserves the belt, should have no effect on friendship. 

The only way it could effect friendship is if the loser is bitter about it afterwards. I've gone bare-knuckle with closest friends before, and as long as everyone understands it's purely competition and not ego, the result of the fight is quite irrelevant. Just good competetive fun, with no ill-will.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

If Machida defends it his belt successfully against Shogun or the next contender then it might just happen. The only one holding back would be Anderson Silva. 

Problem is would we see the best of Machida or Silva or more of an exhibition. 

I'm going with the "Spider" on this one.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> There are 101 things my pops would love me to do that I dont. I do like the romantic notion that Machidas relationship with his dad is still like it was when he was 8. eg. Being 100% respectful and never disobeying. The reality is probably nothing like that! Lyoto probably does loads of stuff in his fights that make his dad go:


Yoshizo Machida is not only his dad, he is also his Master and Mentor. I guess you can't compare there realationships with them we have with our dads. I guess Lyoto would do everthing his father wants him to do. It's more like the Japanese attitude not like the middel Europe or north America one. They have so much respect for there parents, what probably nobody from us ever experienced. 

But because Anderson is so much against a fight between both even more then Lyoto probably, I guess that the percentages are close to zero that we will ever see this fight happen indifferent what his dad says.


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## Cptmats (Dec 27, 2009)

BrutalKO said:


> ...What would make Lyoto's father want his son to fight Anderson? It should be their decision not his. It just all sounds retarded...:confused02:


I dont believe it should be there decition. If you are the top two fighter in a division you should fight. If they wanna hand pick there oponents they should take up boxing !


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## JWP (Jun 4, 2007)

This is very interesting. I think that they should fight, and I think Anderson would win.


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## Toroian (Jan 3, 2009)

Cptmats said:


> I dont believe it should be there decition. If you are the top two fighter in a division you should fight. If they wanna hand pick there oponents they should take up boxing !


your right but guess wut anderson is a MW guy not top of LHW so ufc cant force it


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## Cptmats (Dec 27, 2009)

Toroian said:


> your right but guess wut anderson is a MW guy not top of LHW so ufc cant force it


He fought Griffin and Irvin at LHW, so what the point of entering a division if you have no intention of challenging for the belt ?



cdtcpl said:


> I wonder if DW has something to do with this.....


It is a Dana type move but i think it prolly has more to do with honor, and his fathers old school japanese ways.....(Bushido)


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

> I dont believe it should be there decition. If you are the top two fighter in a division you should fight. If they wanna hand pick there oponents they should take up boxing !


This is how it should be, the champ shouldn't be allowed to choose between contenders no matter what reason. He's the champ and in my eyes it's just excuses, how can you be an undisputed champ if you refuse to fight particular contenders? What a joke.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I wonder if DW has something to do with this.....

But seriously, you know DW has a copy of this article next time he talks to AS and Machida.


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## Bisnauth (May 27, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> Silva has never faced anyone near Machida or Shogun's standup level...


Please...Shogun got manhandled by Forrest Griffin and Silva made quick work of him. Other than Shogun (Who should of got the win over Machida) the guys that Machida fought in the UFC are mediocre. I personnaly think that Shogun expose a weakness in Machida game and many other fighters will take advantage of it in the future. Right now since no one had figured on Silva and he continues to win in devastating fashion. I would say that Silva is the best Middle & Light Heavyweight fighter in the UFC.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Bisnauth said:


> Please...Shogun got manhandled by Forrest Griffin.


... and Brandon Vera knocked out Frank Mir with a head kick... what's your point?


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

I know Im the Machida guy so here goes:


I take his father to be a face value type of guy a Shotkan Master.....there is alot of Honor there. He has raised Lyoto as a Samurai, and you many times hear Lyoto say, my Father has told me i have Samurai in my blood.

Samurai's were Loyal...to the death, and their foundation is Honor, to a Samurai, not accepting a duel is both disrespect and has no Honor...not sayin all did Honorable things, they did not.....

The Duel, while in the past were sometimes to the death, is hardly the case here, however, I believe that fundamental old school thinking is what makes Lyoto's father say this....they are close and they train together and it's possible they will or would have to face off at 205....

Notice his Father doesnt seem to have any doubt he will do away with Shogun and have to deal with this situation of possibly fighting Anderson....:thumbsup:


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

so much wrong with your post that I want to debate:



Bisnauth said:


> Who should of got the win over Machida


Should dont mean squat



> the guys that Machida fought in the UFC are mediocre.


Right. Comapared to whos UFC record at LHW?



> I personnaly think that Shogun expose a weakness in Machida game and many other fighters will take advantage of it in the future


Because Machida is gonna go in with the same game that nearly lost him the first fight.



> Right now since no one had figured on Silva and he continues to win in devastating fashion


Leites and Cote had no devastation about them. I would say Rashad and Silva when down in pretty devastating fashion at the hands of Lyoto. Are you suggesting Lietes and Cote are less mediocre than Rashad and Silva? All people seem to remember is the Forrest humiliation.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Soojooko said:


> so much wrong with your post that I want to debate:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Good post....:thumbsup: repped...


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## lagmonkey (Apr 23, 2008)

xeberus said:


> For the 1-500k paycheck my friend and I would receive, I would fight anyone of my friends... Then go get a beer afterwords. There are different levels of such actions being acceptable in situations with certain friends. It is a trust and mutual respect that you could fight a friend without consequences.


I am with you on this. To sweeten the deal we would have to make a little side bet that whoever wins has to buy that night. 

:thumb02:

And someone get Machida's pop to register with MMA Forum so I can +rep that man.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Bisnauth said:


> Please...Shogun got manhandled by Forrest Griffin and Silva made quick work of him. Other than Shogun (Who should of got the win over Machida) the guys that Machida fought in the UFC are mediocre. I personnaly think that Shogun expose a weakness in Machida game and many other fighters will take advantage of it in the future. Right now since no one had figured on Silva and he continues to win in devastating fashion. I would say that Silva is the best Middle & Light Heavyweight fighter in the UFC.


Are you really comparing the Shogun in the Forrest fight to the prime Shogun we're seeing now?

And Machida has beaten Rich Franklin, Tito Ortiz, Rashad Evans, Thiago Silva, Soko... Besides Rampage and Lil Nog who else is there at 205?



Soojooko said:


> Leites and Cote had no devastation about them. I would say Rashad and Silva when down in pretty devastating fashion at the hands of Lyoto. Are you suggesting Lietes and Cote are less mediocre than Rashad and Silva? All people seem to remember is the Forrest humiliation.


Ugh, this. The Silva from the Cote fight would lose against Machida. Machida may have a slightly boring style but he's never had a fight like Silva did against Lutter, Cote, Leites, Takase, Chonan, or Henderson. Machida has been way more dominant at a more stacked weight class.


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## JACro (Aug 12, 2009)

it would probably be a boring 5 round sparring session where no fighter commits.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

JACro said:


> it would probably be a boring 5 round sparring session where no fighter commits.


I agree with this completely. Anderson and Machida are both counter-strikers to the point of frustration... IMO this fight goes to decision 100000 times out of a 100.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

xeberus said:


> For the 1-500k paycheck my friend and I would receive, I would fight anyone of my friends... Then go get a beer afterwords. There are different levels of such actions being acceptable in situations with certain friends. It is a trust and mutual respect that you could fight a friend without consequences.


yeah I agree. I've gotten in fights with people, and ended up being friends afterwards. That's the thing about being a guy, you can fight and completely get over it fairly easily.


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## JACro (Aug 12, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> I agree with this completely. Anderson and Machida are both counter-strikers to the point of frustration... IMO this fight goes to decision 100000 times out of a 100.


don't get me wrong lyoto is my favorite fighter. but I just think both fighters wouldnt be in the agressive victory mode they would need to make the fight exciting


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

JACro said:


> don't get me wrong lyoto is my favorite fighter. but I just think both fighters wouldnt be in the agressive victory mode they would need to make the fight exciting


Well, Shogun spent the whole fight countering Machida with great success. That didn't add up to a boring fight at all.


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## JACro (Aug 12, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> Well, Shogun spent the whole fight countering Machida with great success. That didn't add up to a boring fight at all.


yes that was great fight, the point i was trying to make is that lyoto and shogun both had large drives to defeat each other.

Anderson and Lyoto are close friends they would be more hesitant to finish the fight it would make their focus diluted.


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## Bisnauth (May 27, 2007)

Soojooko said:


> ... and Brandon Vera knocked out Frank Mir with a head kick... what's your point?


Point I'm trying to make is "styles make fights" and I don't think (my personal opinion) that Shogun or Machida would fair well in a "striking" match against Anderson Silva.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> I agree with this completely. Anderson and Machida are both counter-strikers to the point of frustration... IMO this fight goes to decision 100000 times out of a 100.


I have said this in every thread when people salivate over this fight.

I am kinda torn though. I think that it would be a very boring fight, but I would like to know who is better. It could be good for the sport to see which one is better, but I don't think it would be as great of a fight as everyone thinks it would be.

I do think that Silva needs to stay out of the LHW division if he has no intentions of fighting for the title though. Picking off contenders and then sayigng you won't fight for the title just messes up the division and makes ranking people more difficult.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

I would rather see Silva vs Shogun. Lots of fireworks in that fight....


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

JACro said:


> Anderson and Lyoto are close friends they would be more hesitant to finish the fight it would make their focus diluted.


Agreed.

Lets hope one of their wives/girlfriends is a completely irrisistable slut.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Soakked said:


> I would rather see Silva vs Shogun. Lots of fireworks in that fight....


This fight would be incredible! If Lyoto beats Shogun again I would love to see it. But if Shogun becomes the champ I don't want to because If Silva beats him for the LHW belt, it leaves Machida in no man's land.


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## Bisnauth (May 27, 2007)

Soojooko said:


> so much wrong with your post that I want to debate:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that's a poor example...since Leites kept on throwing himself down and won't fight and Cote was just running from Silva until he had his injury.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Actually Cote was the aggressor, following a dancing AS. He still couldn't do anything though and the only meaningful exchanges favored AS. Cote hung in there, but it would obvious that AS was trying to get into his head and play around with him.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Bisnauth said:


> that's a poor example...since Leites kept on throwing himself down and won't fight and Cote was just running from Silva until he had his injury.


Leites wasn't like that the entire fight... the first two rounds were pretty competitive. I'd have to rewatch it but I don't think he started that strategy till the end of the 3rd.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Bisnauth said:


> can't argue with his record...but I would like to see him fight Rampage, Lil Nog, and Henderson before i can put him at the level of Silva in triking.


Who exactly has Silva faced that's the equivalent of Rampage and Lil Nog? He was devastating against Franklin who got beat by Machida beforehand anyway. Hendo is quality granted. You talk about Silva like he's been facing the cream of the crop strikers. Who are they? 

I consider Machidas opponents of equal quality ( at least ) to Silvas.


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## Marbles (Aug 31, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Are you really comparing the Shogun in the Forrest fight to the prime Shogun we're seeing now?
> 
> And Machida has beaten Rich Franklin, Tito Ortiz, Rashad Evans, Thiago Silva, Soko... Besides Rampage and Lil Nog who else is there at 205?



Wow, Machida vs Rampage!? How cool would that be!


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

Marbles said:


> Wow, Machida vs Rampage!? How cool would that be!


Machida would destroy Rampage with kicks, Rampage can't defend kicks to save his life.

As for Machida against Silva... I dunno. My mind is telling me Anderson Silva, my heart is telling Anderson Silva, but my gut is telling me Machida. So, I have no freakin idea who would win this match up.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> There is only one champion, so I believe this fight must happen. It's a professional issue, and I believe they can fight. Deep down, everyone wants to know who is strongest. Friendship is friendship, but they're not amateurs. The eventual winner isn't my concern. What matters to me is how they win, and their strategy. This would be a mental battle.


And how are they supposed to train? Separately at the same camp? I don't think it's such a good idea to split the camp just because daddy wants to see some shots. Either way, it's highly doubtful that Machida and Silva are gonna change their opinions. I would like to see their fight, but it's not extremely important to know who would prevail. The fight probably would go to the distance and would be very close and the questions wouldn't be fully answered. Anderson vs Shogun sounds just as good to me.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> Who exactly has Silva faced that's the equivalent of Rampage and Lil Nog? He was devastating against Franklin who got beat by Machida beforehand anyway. Hendo is quality granted. You talk about Silva like he's been facing the cream of the crop strikers. Who are they?
> 
> I consider Machidas opponents of equal quality ( at least ) to Silvas.


He also beat Marquardt who has very good standup and Forrest has pretty good standup as well. I'm not trying to disprove you, I just noticed that you left them out.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

I think this is another one of those ideals that needs to be locked up in the halls of never-going-to-happen fights, right along side with Fedor v. (100%) Lesnar. However, if I had to choose Silva or Lyoto, I would have to side with Lyoto on paper(though I don't really like him), based on the historical caliber of opponents he has faced, in comparison to Silva.


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## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

Machida needs to put pops in the room next to Homer's dad


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## Bisnauth (May 27, 2007)

Soojooko said:


> Who exactly has Silva faced that's the equivalent of Rampage and Lil Nog? He was devastating against Franklin who got beat by Machida beforehand anyway. Hendo is quality granted. You talk about Silva like he's been facing the cream of the crop strikers. Who are they?
> 
> I consider Machidas opponents of equal quality ( at least ) to Silvas.


That may very well be true...but they are too many variables involve in comparing fighters in different weight division that argueing that point is a waste of time. Like the saying goes, "you're only as good as your last fight." The words of George St Pierre said it best, "I'm not impress by your performance Machida!"


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## SRCSBaseball (Aug 1, 2009)

I'm sure this has been brought up. But, given the types of fighters that Machida and Silva are, wouldn't this be a lot of circling?


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## jhizzy (Feb 4, 2007)

Soojooko said:


> Who exactly has Silva faced that's the equivalent of Rampage and Lil Nog? He was devastating against Franklin who got beat by Machida beforehand anyway. Hendo is quality granted. You talk about Silva like he's been facing the cream of the crop strikers. Who are they?
> 
> I consider Machidas opponents of equal quality ( at least ) to Silvas.


1.) Silva has common opponents with both lil nog and especially rampage. 

2.) I find it funny that you're willing to put rampage on a pedestal over silva when they share 2 common opponents within the last two years in hendo and griffin. Rampage went 10 rounds with both guys and even came out with a loss while silva disposed of them within 3 rounds in devastating fashion. Sure making this comparison may be a little MMA math-ish but it's also a hell of a statement.


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## flourhead (Jul 12, 2006)

Soojooko said:


> so much wrong with your post that I want to debate:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


all you seem to remember are the leites and cote fights lol. come on man. silva has destroyed everyone else he has fought. quit being a hater


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> He also beat Marquardt who has very good standup and Forrest has pretty good standup as well. I'm not trying to disprove you, I just noticed that you left them out.


Marquarts standup was rubbish when he fought Silva. In fact, it was the Silva beating that made Nate the fighter he is today as he felt first hand what is required to compete with the master.



Bisnauth said:


> That may very well be true...but they are too many variables involve in comparing fighters in different weight division that argueing that point is a waste of time. Like the saying goes, "you're only as good as your last fight." The words of George St Pierre said it best, "I'm not impress by your performance Machida!"


All I'm saying is that if you list side by side the last 6 fights from both fighters, neither list jumps out as being any better than the other.



flourhead said:


> all you seem to remember are the leites and cote fights lol. come on man. silva has destroyed everyone else he has fought. quit being a hater


You are not listening to me. I'm not saying Machida is better or worse than Silva. I love Silva. How can you not with his super-skills. I'm saying that both have "destroyed" their opponents in equal measure. I just don't see where all this evidence comes from that points to Silva beating Lyoto. Personally, I cant call it. They are both superb. 

Theres seems to be this impression since the Shogun fight that somehow Machida is nothing special. Maybe Silva should fight Shogun at 205 and we'll see if he fairs any better. I bet he doesn't.


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## Cptmats (Dec 27, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Lets hope one of their wives/girlfriends is a completely irrisistable slut.


Ahahaha i was just thinking that if Machida were to do Andersons wife the problem would be solved and we would see one hell of a good fight !


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## Cptmats (Dec 27, 2009)

Bisnauth said:


> that's a poor example...since Leites kept on throwing himself down and won't fight and Cote was just running from Silva until he had his injury.


You got that a little backwards, Cote wanted to stand and bang, Sliva wanted no pat of it and kept dancing away. Silva got a little taste of Cotes power and didnt like it however Cote took Silvas best and smiled at him.....i agree Anderson was winning the fight.....but only by out pointing him


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Cptmats said:


> You got that a little backwards, Cote wanted to stand and bang, Sliva wanted no pat of it and kept dancing away. Silva got a little taste of Cotes power and didnt like it however Cote took Silvas best and smiled at him.....i agree Anderson was winning the fight.....but only by out pointing him


Thats how I saw it too. Cote has a monumental chin. The first thing on your "shit I need to dance with Silva" list is a titanium chin. Second is power, cause you aint gonna hit Silva very often that's for sure. Cote has both.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Machidas dad is exactly right imo, it is a professional matter and friendship should be overlooked in these situations.

Having said that I think Silva needs a couple more wins at 205 to deserve a title shot at Machida, in fairness to Silva LHW is a much more competitive weight class in the UFC than the MW, not just because of the difference in weight between fighters but because 205 is just stacked full of talent like the welter weight division.

This in mind Silva would have to concentrate the next year on LHW bouts to get in at least 2 good fights, which also means time off from defending his own title at MW, although I'm sure just for the sheer money this fight would generate for the UFC they would push it straight in should they agree to fight, even tho imo Silva should have to prove himself first against other fighters competing at this weight, little Nog should for one be closer to a title fight.

I would like to see the LWN division go like this in this order

1. Shogun vs Machida Rematch
2. little Nog vs XXXXX - for a shot at fighting Evans
3. Evans vs winner of little nog fight
4. Winner of Evans fight to fight for the title

during this time should silva want a title shot at 205 he should have to face and beat 2 other top contenders to come though the 205 ranks to become next in line.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

He obviously doesn't like his son very much...


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Nefilim777 said:


> He obviously doesn't like his son very much...


How do you come to this theory :confused02:


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> How do you come to this theory :confused02:


I could be wrong, but I think he is saying that Machida's dad is going to get him KO'd maybe. :dunno:


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I could be wrong, but I think he is saying that Machida's dad is going to get him KO'd maybe. :dunno:


Oh right Hit that could be a possibility  


Well if thats true Nefilim you probably already know that this is far-fetched^^


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Wow i never knew his Father felt that way.... I never thought this fight would happen but Lyoto seems to listen to his dad, and i remember in a interview after he won his belt he said "Dana is my boss and i will defend my title against whoever brazilian or not" But i also heard him so No Way!... All i can say is the fight would be Epic


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Machida Karate said:


> Wow i never knew his Father felt that way.... I never thought this fight would happen but Lyoto seems to listen to his dad, and i remember in a interview after he won his belt he said "Dana is my boss and i will defend my title against whoever brazilian or not" But i also heard him so No Way!... All i can say is the fight would be Epic


Even if Yoshizo forces his son to fight Anderson what I don't believe will it still fail, because Anderson doesn't want it either. Otherwise maybe but like I said the last thing I would buy is that he will force him.


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## GMK13 (Apr 20, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I found this to be a very interesting read as well. It's good to hear someone so close to Machida come out and say this.


doesnt get any closer then your dad that trains you.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

Cptmats said:


> I dont believe it should be there decition. If you are the top two fighter in a division you should fight. If they wanna hand pick there oponents they should take up boxing !


...Actually Rashad Evans is #2. Shogun is #3. Rampage is #4 and Anderson Silva is #5. This according to mmaweekly. When Silva fights at 205 again, more than likely he'll have to face one of those three before he gets a shot at Lyoto...


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I could be wrong, but I think he is saying that Machida's dad is going to get him KO'd maybe. :dunno:





BobbyCooper said:


> Oh right Hit that could be a possibility
> 
> 
> Well if thats true Nefilim you probably already know that this is far-fetched^^


EXACTLY!


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## Inkdot (Jun 15, 2009)

So in order for this to happen, Andersons dad must also force him to fight Machida!

As far as desering a title shot or not, this is A. Silva were talking about. The man could be matched up against King Kong for all I care. Can't become more 'A-List' fighter then Anderson is.


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## Jamal (Aug 20, 2009)

I think he needs to look at Shogun first and look at Silva later..


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

I can see where Mr. Machida is coming from that fighter first-friend seconde place. 

In all honesty if it would advance the notoriety of the sport as well as push me harder than ever. I would most definitely go against a friend. Its not a bad thing to fight a friend, especially with so many advantages from whatever the outcome. 

I think the issue stems more from Anderson not wanting to embarrass his friend, and Machida not wanting to lose his record... But that's just me...


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Squirrelfighter said:


> I can see where Mr. Machida is coming from that fighter first-friend seconde place.
> 
> In all honesty if it would advance the notoriety of the sport as well as push me harder than ever. I would most definitely go against a friend. Its not a bad thing to fight a friend, especially with so many advantages from whatever the outcome.
> 
> I think the issue stems more from Anderson not wanting to embarrass his friend, and Machida not wanting to lose his record... But that's just me...



What striker has Anderson ever faced that's anywhere near Machida level?


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> What striker has Anderson ever faced that's anywhere near Machida level?


Chris Leben!!! Haha! 

/sarcasm

I think that Machida would definitely be the best striker that Silva has faced. I mean Maqruardt and Cote and people like that are awesome strikers but I wouldn't put them on the same level as Machida. Machida's elusiveness and his accuracy are beyond anyone that Silva has faced.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> Chris Leben!!! Haha!
> 
> /sarcasm
> 
> I think that Machida would definitely be the best striker that Silva has faced. I mean Maqruardt and Cote and people like that are awesome strikers but I wouldn't put them on the same level as Machida. Machida's elusiveness and his accuracy are beyond anyone that Silva has faced.


Agreed. Cote landed a lot of great strikes (especially in the 50 seconds of the 3rd round before he blew out his knee) and he's not anywhere near Machida's level. Infact he got beat down by Chris Leben. :confused05:


Machida has been way more dominant in his career also.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Agreed. Cote landed a lot of great strikes (especially in the 50 seconds of the 3rd round before he blew out his knee) and he's not anywhere near Machida's level. Infact he got beat down by Chris Leben. :confused05:
> 
> 
> Machida has been way more dominant in his career also.


I dont understand why you dont give enough credit for Silvas striking. He is an incredible striker, the best in the business imo.

What great strikers has Machida fought? Rua who he lost against, BJ Penn?

Silvas performance against Forrest Griffin was just unreal, i really dont understand why you dont rate him so highly, Silva is legit.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> I dont understand why you dont give enough credit for Silvas striking. He is an incredible striker, the best in the business imo.
> 
> What great strikers has Machida fought? Rua who he lost against, BJ Penn?
> 
> Silvas performance against Forrest Griffin was just unreal, i really dont understand why you dont rate him so highly, Silva is legit.



Forrest had a lot of issues during that fight and didn't look anywhere near his normal speed. 


And when the best striker you've ever faced is Patric Cote I find it hard to call you the best MMA striker. 

Shogun has outstruck Overeem, Lil Nog, Rampage, Liddell, Machida...

Silva's a great MMA striker of course, top tier, but I think his showboating gives people a false sense of superiority. Shogun doesn't taunt or showboat like Silva but IMO he's a way better striker. And Silva WON'T engage if the other fighter isn't being aggressive. Insisting that you be the counter striker IMO isn't a way to earn you the best striker in MMA badge.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Forrest had a lot of issues during that fight and didn't look anywhere near his normal speed.
> 
> 
> And when the best striker you've ever faced is Patric Cote I find it hard to call you the best MMA striker.
> ...


I asked what great fighters Machida has fought, not Shogun. BJ Penn who he squeaked a decision win over and Rua, who he got beaten up by for 5 rounds.

The likes of Silva, Machida and Rua are all very equal in terms of striking ability. That isnt true about Silva not engaging if the other fighter isnt pushing forward. Silva attacks himself and uses controlled aggression very well in his fights, he is very patient, gets his timing down and attacks always at the right time.

I dont see how being a counter striker shouldn't earn you the best striker award either. Silva has excellent defence and unreal timing and like i said before also uses aggression in a controlled manner. He counters and attacks very, very well.

I dont know what issues Forrest had during that fight, i havnt looked into it, but to me he has always looked quite slow, he seemed no different in the silva fight, it was just the fact that Silva made him look like a complete amateur.

Any ways imo Silva would out strike Machida and beat him if the two ever meet. It would be a very exciting, technical battle.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

It's really interesting that ppl on this board brought that up! Silva really hasn't fought a real top tier striker yet, I really didn't and I think I wasn't the only one who didn't realised this until now. It's really true that Vitor will be his biggest stand up nemesis so far. Only Cote who is known for a good boxing, but Vitor is on another level! I don't put Nate into this as a good striker.

But in my opinion his p4p status as number 1 or 2 (behind Fedor) for some ppl shouldn't be disputable. He ran through his opponents as they were amateurs.


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## Cptmats (Dec 27, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> And when the best striker you've ever faced is Patric Cote I find it hard to call you the best MMA striker.
> 
> Shogun has outstruck Overeem, Lil Nog, Rampage, Liddell, Machida...
> 
> .


#1 Cote is an execellent striker, hardest puncher at 185 and best chin in MMA, Cote vs Silva was an even fight when it ended.
#2 Lil Nog clearly out struck Shogun
#3 Machida countered almost everything shogun threw.
#4 Anderson Silva is pure counter striker



swpthleg said:


> I agree that Cote has an iron chin. IDK if it's the very best. He has some company IMO.
> 
> It was hard to see every Machida counter b/c we were distracted by Rogan jizzing whenever Shogun landed a kick.


yeh really, rogan is the most bias comentator ever, complete tool, they need to ditch him and get Bas calling the fights !

As far as the chin, You make a good point,hmmm rampage has a good one but we've seen him KO'd..Mark Hunt maybe....but i dont think there is a better one....maybe as good but not better !


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Cptmats said:


> #1 Cote is an execellent striker, hardest puncher at 185 and best chin in MMA, Cote vs Silva was an even fight when it ended.
> #2 Lil Nog clearly out struck Shogun
> #3 Machida countered almost everything shogun threw.
> #4 Anderson Silva is pure counter striker


I agree that Cote has an iron chin. IDK if it's the very best. He has some company IMO.

It was hard to see every Machida counter b/c we were distracted by Rogan jizzing whenever Shogun landed a kick.


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## jhizzy (Feb 4, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> Forrest had a lot of issues during that fight and didn't look anywhere near his normal speed.


That's news to me, care to enlighten us as to what exactly was wrong with griffin? Nevertheless he looked the same to me.




khoveraki said:


> And when the best striker you've ever faced is Patric Cote I find it hard to call you the best MMA striker.


That couldn't be any further from the truth. Franklin, Marquardt, lee murray, sakurai are better strikers than cote (not to say that they're absolute best in the game but the they are indeed better than cote IMO).



khoveraki said:


> Shogun has outstruck Overeem, Lil Nog, Rampage, Liddell, Machida...


By that logic shouldn't forrest be considered a good striker or at the very least better than cote in the stand up? After all he did hang with both shogun and rampage in the standup and in fact outstruck the latter. I mean if you're going to quantify just how good someone's striking is by going their competition than you might as well be fair about it.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Cptmats said:


> #1 Cote is an execellent striker, hardest puncher at 185 and best chin in MMA, Cote vs Silva was an even fight when it ended.
> #2 Lil Nog clearly out struck Shogun
> #3 Machida countered almost everything shogun threw.
> #4 Anderson Silva is pure counter striker




Wait so are you agreeing or disagreeing?

Lil Nog got beat pretty bad against Shogun. He lost nearly every hard exchange. In the first round he took a ton of huge hooks and leg kicks and a few knees from the clinch. 

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Ant...vs_Mauricio_Shogun_Rua_P?vid=10005499&tid=100

He clearly got outclassed standing. Lil Nog had the edge in submissions on the ground, but Shogun's GnP was also vicious.

Machida "countered" in the sense she tried to throw each time, but it was either blocked or hit nothing but air. A lot of his counters did land but not the majority. 

And you're saying Cote has a better chin than Henderson and has more power than Vitor? 

Silva IS clearly only a counter-striker and I think this should play a big part in judging who the best MMA striker is. Just like we wouldn't call Mir the best "HW Grappler" because he isn't very good at wrestling, but we would perhaps rank him best BJJ at HW (fully debatable, just an example).


http://promma.info/index.php/2009/09/27/forrest-griffin-talks-marriage-and-quaaludes/

Forrest was on Quaaludes for the fight and was nearly half-speed... he had a ton of emotional issues at the time and didn't look anywhere near himself. 

Silva is rated as a top 3 P4P and "best MMA striker" but in reality he's never faced a top striker, he's been at 170 briefly and a much less stacked 185 most of his career. It just seems like he was losing, then he came to UFC and the UFC decided to make them their poster boy... I know I'm bias but when I see Silva fight, I just don't see the speed and aggressiveness and well-roundedness that makes a top 3 P4P'er.


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## Cptmats (Dec 27, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Lil Nog got beat pretty bad against Shogun. He lost nearly every hard exchange. In the first round he took a ton of huge hooks and leg kicks and a few knees from the clinch


Think you need to watch that again, Lil Nog dropped him in the first round and continued to rock him through out the fight. Shogun one a very close split decision with take downs.



khoveraki said:


> Machida "countered" in the sense she tried to throw each time, but it was either blocked or hit nothing but air. A lot of his counters did land but not the majority.


Shogun said himself he was only able to stop Machidas offence but couldnt do anything more !



khoveraki said:


> And you're saying Cote has a better chin than Henderson and has more power than Vitor?


Exaclty what im saying.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Wait so are you agreeing or disagreeing?
> 
> *Lil Nog got beat pretty bad against Shogun. He lost nearly every hard exchange. In the first round he took a ton of huge hooks and leg kicks and a few knees from the clinch.
> 
> ...


Either your bias towards Shogun is making you deluded, or you need a new pair of glasses. Shogun DID NOT out strike lil nog in that fight. Rua was rocked twice, lil nog was clearly getting the better of every exchange and had superior boxing throughout the fight. Rua rocked lil nog in the third and was successful in his take downs and GNP which earned him the win, he definitely didn't out strike nog on the feet at all though. 

Cote does have a better chin than Henderson. Silva rocked Henderson with strikes on the feet, where as he threw his best at Cote and he just smiled back at Silva, he can take some punishment. 

Silva isnt clearly only a counter striker at all. You need to re watch fights. He is primarily a counter striker but he has demonstrated numerous times that he can be the aggressor and knows exactly when to attack and push the pace.


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## jhizzy (Feb 4, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> http://promma.info/index.php/2009/09/27/forrest-griffin-talks-marriage-and-quaaludes/
> 
> Forrest was on Quaaludes for the fight and was nearly half-speed... he had a ton of emotional issues at the time and didn't look anywhere near himself.


uhhh, forrest was joking about being on quaaludes during the fight. Now whether or not you were actually kidding is something I'm still trying to figure out.


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## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> And when the best striker you've ever faced is Patric Cote I find it hard to call you the best MMA striker.
> 
> Shogun has outstruck *Overeem*, Lil Nog, Rampage, Liddell, Machida...


Shogun didn't even outstrike Overeem. It wasn't until the fight hit the ground in both fights that Shogun was able to dominate. Watch the fights again, Overeem was outstriking and manhandling Shogun on the feet. 

And, while i'm sure you didn't mean it, your comment about Cote being the best fighter Silva has ever faced suggests disrespect. Cote is a very good striker with a heavy hands, he wasn't doing too bad against Silva, although he definitely wasn't winning.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> http://promma.info/index.php/2009/09/27/forrest-griffin-talks-marriage-and-quaaludes/
> 
> *Forrest was on Quaaludes* for the fight and was nearly half-speed... he had a ton of emotional issues at the time and didn't look anywhere near himself.


Errr, what!? Not quite sure you've worked out Forrest's sense of humour tbh. He was not serious about being on ludes for that fight. I really hope you're joking yourself, but I fear that you're not.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> What striker has Anderson ever faced that's anywhere near Machida level?


None...Period, regardless if Cote' is a good striker which he is, Vitor will be his biggest test to date on his feet....



Mckeever said:


> I dont understand why you dont give enough credit for Silvas striking. He is an incredible striker, the best in the business imo.
> 
> What great strikers has Machida fought? Rua who he lost against, BJ Penn?
> 
> Silvas performance against Forrest Griffin was just unreal, i really dont understand why you dont rate him so highly, Silva is legit.


He isnt the best in the business, he is up there with them, he is flashy and often that entertains people and therefore they give him a ton of credit. The fact is his striking can be pinpoint but also he can be struck... I think thats the point thats most over looked here...His fight against Forrest really was a great showing but there IMO was def something wrong with Forrest he seemed disintrested, almost like he didnt care at all, his action were lathargic he had zero head movement and stood right in frot of Anderson....almost like he thought he was gonna lose before he went out there....

The issues Khovs is referring I thought were the persoonal issues getting hitched and all that I believe this was a short time that Forrest lost intrest in fighting while tending to his personal life...thats what took it to mean, although the rest of the thread thinks Khovs is seriously trying to say the dude fought on ludes...:sarcastic12:

Machida has faced Franklin(striker) Benn(great boxing) Silva (striker) Evans (easy target) Bonnar (striker)....now while they may not be top tier...he made tham all look dumb with the exception of BJ....



khoveraki said:


> Forrest had a lot of issues during that fight and didn't look anywhere near his normal speed.
> 
> 
> And when the best striker you've ever faced is Patric Cote I find it hard to call you the best MMA striker.
> ...


Repped for bolded statment...TRUTH...



jhizzy said:


> That's news to me, care to enlighten us as to what exactly was wrong with griffin? Nevertheless he looked the same to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You cant say that something is further from the truth and then end it with IMO...LOL...Forrest is a good striker dude, are you gonna tell me he is a wrester or BJJ practioner....no he's a striker, he just lacks power and any kind of head, foot, or shoulder movement when he fought Silva......thats why so many threads were started asking what the hell was up with Forrest....clearly he looked like shit....



Danm2501 said:


> Errr, what!? Not quite sure you've worked out Forrest's sense of humour tbh. He was not serious about being on ludes for that fight. I really hope you're joking yourself, but I fear that you're not.


Im pretty sure he was....:thumbsup:


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## DahStoryTella (Jul 11, 2009)

Haha, Forrest got that ass whooped.

& back on topic: Silva/Machida would be an amazing chess match on the feet. Would be nice to get away from these stupid ''brawling'' power punchers who swing wrecklessly. Smh.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> None...Period, regardless if Cote' is a good striker which he is, Vitor will be his biggest test to date on his feet....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This irritates me. Its like your just digging up an excuse for Griffin because he got humiliated so badly. Whether he had emotional, personal problems before the fight no one knows, but he got absolutely schooled by Silva, i dont want to hear the; "he wasn't his normal self nonsense". He was completely outclassed by Silva and that is the most dominant performance i have ever seen from a fighter, unreal. 

IMO Anderson silva is the best striker in the business, he has proved it time and time again by just destroying any one who tried to compete with him on the feet. His timing and accuracy is unreal, he has devastating power. I, am certain Silva would out strike Machida and Shogun Rua (both excellent strikers and great fighters). The difference between Silva and Machida/Rua is just how effortless Silva makes it look, its like the octagon is where he feels at home. Just so elusive, wild and unpredictable but he makes it all look effortless.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> This irritates me. Its like your just digging up an excuse for Griffin because he got humiliated so badly. Whether he had emotional, personal problems before the fight no one knows, but he got absolutely schooled by Silva, i dont want to hear the; "he wasn't his normal self nonsense". He was completely outclassed by Silva and that is the most dominant performance i have ever seen from a fighter, unreal.
> 
> IMO Anderson silva is the best striker in the business, he has proved it time and time again by just destroying any one who tried to compete with him on the feet. His timing and accuracy is unreal, he has devastating power. I, am certain Silva would out strike Machida and Shogun Rua (both excellent strikers and great fighters). The difference between Silva and Machida/Rua is just how effortless Silva makes it look, its like the octagon is where he feels at home. Just so elusive, wild and unpredictable but he makes it all look effortless.


 
Wow the opinion of someone on the internet irritates you, and the opinion you think I have you have misinterpreted.....

All glory to Silva he schooled Forrest, he would again, my point is that fight made him look like he is on another planet he isnt...PERIOD. Forrest was clearly out classed so Im not making an excuse for something I agree with you on...CHILL...

Regardless Forrest looked like shit and has fought way better in the past, as stated above the head, foot and shoulder movement that is basic was not there for whatever reason........IF IT WAS THERE...I think Anderson still would have whooped him....

Anderson Silva does not have devestating power, he has pinpoint accuracy and timing and a devestating Muay Thai plum but he isnt some one punch wonder....he lands so accurately that there are not a ton of shots needed....

I know you dont agree but seriously that wasnt the Forrest that has gone through battles and been hit in the face to the point he is bleeding everywhere then run away.....

To each his own I am telling you imo that Forrest was not the same person and Silva was awesome....I am also saying if Forrest was on point that night he prob would have lost...

Keever you dont remember the threads on Forrest and him being wierd in the interviews and everything???:confused02: Use the search feature....


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Wow the opinion of someone on the internet irritates you, and the opinion you think I have you have misinterpreted.....
> 
> All glory to Silva he schooled Forrest, he would again, my point is that fight made him look like he is on another planet he isnt...PERIOD. Forrest was clearly out classed so Im not making an excuse for something I agree with you on...CHILL...
> 
> ...


I, am perfectly chilled. Yes, when it seems like people are just digging up excuses for a fighters terrible performance it irritates me, whether it is posted on the internet or some one tries telling it to me in person, what difference should it make? It is irritating. 

Why would i use the search function to find some thing that has nothing to do with any of my post? Your last paragraph is irrelevant and just comes across as you trying to be patronising and trying to get a cheap dig at me.

If you dont think Anderson has some serious power than you are just wrong. Lyoto Machida is a very accurate and precise striker but seemed to lack power up until his recent bouts against Thiago and Rashad. Anderson isnt just accurate he is very powerful. 

No one is saying Silva is on another planet, i just think he is a phenomenal striker and the best part about it is how easy he makes it all look. I really cant see Machida or Rua ever out striking Anderson Silva, i can see the fights being close and very technical, but Silva just has that edge in his striking.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Not every power puncher swings recklessly, IMO.

It's entirely possible that Forrest took a trank (assuming they're legal in MMA) and referred to them as ludes for comic effect...hell I don't know.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

I'm a huge Forrest fan, he's easily my favourite fighter, and I saw no marked difference in his performance that night, than on any other. The stuff about ludes was all comedy interview material, to get laughs. He wasn't expecting it to be taken seriously. Sure he'd just got married and stuff, but he still had a good few weeks to train, and was training as hard as ever, it didn't appear to me that these so called personal issues were affecting his game or his pre-fight preparations. 

When it came to the fight, he could have implemented a far better gameplan, but on the feet he was just simply outclassed. He was throwing everything he could at Anderson, and he was just standing there, dodging it and firing back big combinations. Anderson's power at 205 is ridiculous, he was timing Forrest perfectly, but not really putting all his power behind the punches, and yet he knocked Forrest down on multiple ocassions. His power is incredibly deceptive. Forrest's got an excellent chin and a huge heart also, so I was amazed that Anderson managed to finish him so comprehensively and so quickly. I rate Shogun and Machida incredibly highly, but I personally think Anderson has the potential to outstrike them both. Until they actually step into the octagon together it's impossible to really compare though. So I'm going to leave it at that.

Also, CC, Khov isn't 'trying' to say Forrest was on ludes that night, he has said it, and on multiple occasions too, which gives me the impression that he actually believes it. Why on earth would a dedicated athlete like Forrest Griffin take a sedative-hypnotic drug which can have some quite deadly effects on the human body in the build up to one of the most important fights of his life? He's not an idiot.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Doesn't even bat an eye lid. Effortless.


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## jhizzy (Feb 4, 2007)

coldcall420 said:


> The fact is his striking can be pinpoint but also he can be struck... I think thats the point thats most over looked here...His fight against Forrest really was a great showing but there IMO was def something wrong with Forrest he seemed disintrested, almost like he didnt care at all, his action were lathargic he had zero head movement and stood right in frot of Anderson....almost like he thought he was gonna lose before he went out there....[/FONT]


To say that forrest was disinterested and didn't are at all is a huge leap of faith and I don't see how anyone who isn't close to forrest can make that asssumption (let alone use it as a valid excuse as to why he didn't do well against silva).




coldcall420 said:


> You cant say that something is further from the truth and then end it with IMO...LOL...Forrest is a good striker dude, are you gonna tell me he is a wrester or BJJ practioner....no he's a striker, he just lacks power and any kind of head, foot, or shoulder movement when he fought Silva......thats why so many threads were started asking what the hell was up with Forrest....clearly he looked like shit....


I think you misinterpreted what I said about forrest because I do for one think that forrest is a good striker and I even made a post about how he can outstrike (and possibly beat) lil nog if he uses leg kicks and makes use of his reach (what can I say I'm a fan of griifin).

If anything I was using khov's logic to support the fact that forrest griffin is a good striker who should atleast be considered a better striker than cote.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> I, am perfectly chilled. Yes, when it seems like people are just digging up excuses for a fighters terrible performance it irritates me, whether it is posted on the internet or some one tries telling it to me in person, what difference should it make? It is irritating.
> 
> Why would i use the search function to find some thing that has nothing to do with any of my post? Your last paragraph is irrelevant and just comes across as you trying to be patronising and trying to get a cheap dig at me.
> 
> ...


 
Honestly, I was just trying to discuss with you.....:thumbsdown: You remind me constantly why I dont.....


You def are entitled to your opinion, you dont need to assume your being "dug" at.....another failed attepmt to have a civil discussion.....


Be well...


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Do I get to enter the thread now?

McKeever, the sun's over the yardarm where you live; go have a pint.

Also, speculating and exploring a possibility is not necessarily "making an excuse."


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Danm2501 said:


> I'm a huge Forrest fan, he's easily my favourite fighter, and I saw no marked difference in his performance that night, than on any other. The stuff about ludes was all comedy interview material, to get laughs. He wasn't expecting it to be taken seriously. Sure he'd just got married and stuff, but he still had a good few weeks to train, and was training as hard as ever, it didn't appear to me that these so called personal issues were affecting his game or his pre-fight preparations.
> 
> When it came to the fight, he could have implemented a far better gameplan, but on the feet he was just simply outclassed. He was throwing everything he could at Anderson, and he was just standing there, dodging it and firing back big combinations. Anderson's power at 205 is ridiculous, he was timing Forrest perfectly, but not really putting all his power behind the punches, and yet he knocked Forrest down on multiple ocassions. His power is incredibly deceptive. Forrest's got an excellent chin and a huge heart also, so I was amazed that Anderson managed to finish him so comprehensively and so quickly. I rate Shogun and Machida incredibly highly, but I personally think Anderson has the potential to outstrike them both. Until they actually step into the octagon together it's impossible to really compare though. So I'm going to leave it at that.
> 
> Also, CC, Khov isn't 'trying' to say Forrest was on ludes that night, he has said it, and on multiple occasions too, which gives me the impression that he actually believes it. *Why on earth would a dedicated athlete like Forrest Griffin take a sedative-hypnotic drug which can have some quite deadly effects on the human body in the build up to one of the most important fights of his life? He's not an idiot*.


Thats what made me think he was only kidding, I cant read his mind but i think he was trying for a "cocktail" of issues that Forrest was going through. 

*Respectfully*, even though you have raised valid points about his chin and such....There to me(a Forrest fan who picked and bet the house he would beat Rampage) he looked different....not saying why or what it is related to, again he simply may have not really been there mentally but that night to me was by far the worst he has looked and some of that is how good Silva is, but at the same time he looked lathargic to me and disintrested....:thumbsup:


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Either way, there is NO SHAME in losing to one of the best P4P fighters in the UFC, regardless of what the loser does or says afterward.


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## DahStoryTella (Jul 11, 2009)

swpthleg said:


> *Not every power puncher swings recklessly, IMO.*
> 
> It's entirely possible that Forrest took a trank (assuming they're legal in MMA) and referred to them as ludes for comic effect...hell I don't know.


True.

A lot do though.


But, I hear you.


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## jhizzy (Feb 4, 2007)

Danm2501 said:


> Also, CC, Khov isn't 'trying' to say Forrest was on ludes that night, he has said it, and on multiple occasions too, which gives me the impression that he actually believes it. Why on earth would a dedicated athlete like Forrest Griffin take a sedative-hypnotic drug which can have some quite deadly effects on the human body in the build up to one of the most important fights of his life? He's not an idiot.



Didn't want to call him out on it but I also remember another instance where khov made the quaalude excuse.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Doesn't even bat an eye lid. Effortless.


Maybe by this point Silva knows he can handle Forrest...thats evidence of a guy that was off all night....Forrest



jhizzy said:


> To say that forrest was disinterested and didn't are at all is a huge leap of faith and I don't see how anyone who isn't close to forrest can make that asssumption (let alone use it as a valid excuse as to why he didn't do well against silva).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He to me looked lathargic, again this isnt to take away from Silva as i emphatically have tried to point out that if he wasnt off that night(assuming he was off) then he still would have lost...Forrest wanst the normal looking Forrest IMHO...Period, I realize we disagree thats cool, butthere were plent of people that felt something was wrong, Forrest is better than that....his chim is usually better and the punch didnt have much power on it the last one that knocked him down, hell Anderson was moving backwards when he threw it and hit Forrest....I just think he either didnt care too much or something was wrng with him...

Me stating he looked this way s just the way it seemed and you gotta remember all the "whats wrong with Griffin" threads.....I say that simply to point out that other people out there shared the feelig that he looked off...

Either way this is a matter of opinions and all Im doing ios trying to add mine to the convo...:thumbsup:

As far as Cote'....Im not gonna go there...:thumbsup:



jhizzy said:


> Didn't want to call him out on it but I also remember another instance where khov made the quaalude excuse.


 
He also posted that cuz he is talking about his marraige and that was the video that was posted on the thread that everyone was questioning what was wrong with Forrest...Again, I think its more the maraige and being distracted than the actual taking of ludes that he was trying to point out.......

Im sure he'll see this thread and clear it up...:thumbsup:


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Forrest said in interview that he went to a psychiatrist and tried to get Valium because was so nervous... in a radio interview he said he was terrified of fighting Silva that he was losing sleep over it.

Then he says (in a half-joking way) that he took quaaludes... I don't get the controversy. It's obvious Forrest wasn't himself and he mentioned several times that he needed a drug to calm himself for the training because he was so nervous. 

His trainer also implied they spent half the training camp assuming they could never beat Silva... In a different public interview he said he would "Do okay" in the fight.

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_And..._Griffin_UFC_101_Full_Fi?vid=10005956&tid=100

Even Rogan comments on how slow he was that night...



BTW if you guys think Forrest was 100% in that fight... I guess we're assuming Cote is a hundred times the striker that Forrest is? Seeing as how Cote did much, MUCH better.


http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Anderson_Silva_vs_Patrick_Cote_UFC_90?vid=10001997&tid=100

Cote vs Silva.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

lol forrest has the dryest humor around... talking about losing sleep and Anderson might kill him.... only a child with no concept of sarcasm would take him seriously. Or the ludes. Pretty funny stuff.

There is no controversy, Forrest got beat up by a better fighter. He gave Anderson his props. He always makes jokes about himself. Anybody who took him serious was mislead at best and naive at worst.

Nice Cote vid.... hope we get to see a barn burner like that again soon. He sure had Anderson in trouble. (this is the type of thing Forrest would say, then Khov would be like "See, i told you").


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Honestly, I was just trying to discuss with you.....:thumbsdown: You remind me constantly why I dont.....
> 
> 
> You def are entitled to your opinion, you dont need to assume your being "dug" at.....another failed attepmt to have a civil discussion.....
> ...


What part of my post wasnt rational? I just answered all of your post in a perfectly civil manner. 

Please explain which part of my post offended you.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Well anyway I seriously doubt Machida and Silva will fight each other, no matter what daddy says. Even if Lyoto feels pressured to do it out of respect for dad, I dont see Silva doing it. Evidently they are too good of friends to go in there and try to hurt each other. As for the Forrest arguement, its messed up if its true that Forrest was preparing for Silva but thought he had no chance to beat him. Whats really messed up in mma is that some these guys guys train together and become friends then dont want to fight each other. I dont remember that happening ever happening in boxing.


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## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

Maybe pops should fight Silva's father for the honor of Shotokan...


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

machidaisgod said:


> Maybe pops should fight Silva's father for the honor of Shotokan...



I think the only fight like that physically possible is Antonio Inoki to fight Antonio Nogeuira, which would be awesome.


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## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> I think the only fight like that physically possible is Antonio Inoki to fight Antonio Nogeuira, which would be awesome.


Dana, get the contracts


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

machidaisgod said:


> Dana, get the contracts


 
Dana F*cking White gets the contracts....:thumbsup: LOL


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## Cptmats (Dec 27, 2009)

The Dark Knight said:


> Shogun didn't even outstrike Overeem. It wasn't until the fight hit the ground in both fights that Shogun was able to dominate. Watch the fights again, Overeem was outstriking and manhandling Shogun on the feet.
> 
> And, while i'm sure you didn't mean it, your comment about Cote being the best fighter Silva has ever faced suggests disrespect. Cote is a very good striker with a heavy hands, he wasn't doing too bad against Silva, although he definitely wasn't winning.


He wasnt losing either, when the fight ended it won one round each !


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

I deleted some of the off-topic stuff. 

Stay on topic and do *not* get personal. TY


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

Jamal said:


> I think he needs to look at Shogun first and look at Silva later..


...Hell Yeah man...I'm with ya on that...


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> What striker has Anderson ever faced that's anywhere near Machida level?


True he hasn't fought a striker like Machida, but if you incorporate Machida's great striking skills, it might just make the fight close to even. I'd still put the advantage in the hands of Silva


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

Maximus said:


> On paper it has the makings for most epic fight ever. However, we've seen what Silva looks like in a fight that he's not interested in and he's repeatedly stated that he does not want this fight.
> 
> Machida's father may want this fight, but Lyoto doesn't and if we see two fighters that are both uninterested in their fight against one another, its going to be a 5 round snooze fest.


I'm sad to say this is probably 100% true. This fight would be billed as the greatest skill for skill match in MMA history, and probably leave a lot of the casual fans wondering what's wrong with us die hards.

If it does happen I really hope I'm wrong and they go in to just simply see who gets knocked out first.


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## KillingRoad89 (Jul 28, 2009)

I'd rather see shogun and silva.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

KillingRoad89 said:


> I'd rather see shogun and silva.


I would love to see Shogun vs. Silva. Silva/Machida would be a good strategic match and it would be great for fans who appreciate the sport. Not to mention we would find out which was better.

Silva/Shogun would be extremely entertaining. Shogun would really push the pace and force Silva to attack. I would love to see this fight. :thumbsup:


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

he needs to get past shogun first... unless i missed something, been away from the boards for about a month it seems.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

chilo said:


> he needs to get past shogun first... unless i missed something, been away from the boards for about a month it seems.


yea you missed that Shogun already lost to Lyoto..so he already get past him


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> yea you missed that Shogun already lost to Lyoto..so he already get past him


He might be talking about their second fight. Which is true. That first fight was extremely tough for Lyoto and he really needs to stay focused on that before he thinks about Silva. Not saying that Lyoto wants Silva since his dad is saying this, I am just saying this in case Lyoto is entertaining the though of fighting Silva.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> He might be talking about their second fight...


lol I know HIT^^ I was just joking with him


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> lol I know HIT^^ I was just joking with him


Haha I kinda thought you were but for some reason I wasn't sure so I just tossed it in there. :thumbsup:


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...It seems so likely that Anderson's next fight at 205 has to be Shogun, Rampage or Evans before he, (or if) he faces Lyoto. Looking at the standings- If Evans is #2. Shogun is #3. Rampage is #4., Anderson is #5, he has nowhere to go at 205 but to face one of those three. I agree with others in regards to Anderson facing Shogun. Watching arguably, the 2 best Muay Thai fighters in the UFC bang is more than interesting...


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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

There's still gotta be a Silva vs St.Pierre fight before that happens. But He'll probably retire after his Belfort fight.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Anderson already said he isnt gonna retire.

Would this fight still be possible if they both lost their upcoming fights?? Will they only fight for a belt??


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Well, if they are serious about never fighting and the stick to it, I doubt Silva would fight Shogun or anyone else for the LHW title. If he wins it, then that leaves Machida lost in the LHW division. He would just pick off top contenders but never fight for the title.


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## wolunt (Jan 11, 2010)

Father knows best.









I just hope Machida listens to him.


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## rezin (May 28, 2007)

HitOrGetHit said:


> Well, if they are serious about never fighting and the stick to it, I doubt Silva would fight Shogun or anyone else for the LHW title. If he wins it, then that leaves Machida lost in the LHW division. He would just pick off top contenders but never fight for the title.


I would love to see AS versus any top end LHW fighter but I think I read somewhere that Dana told AS that he cant fight in LHW if he is unwilling to fight Machida. I think the rationale is you got arguably #1 and #2 LHW picking apart the top contenders thereby reducing the number of high profile title challengers. I dont think anyone would want to see Machida v Rampage if Rampage just got KOd by AS. If Rampage doesnt fight AS, people would be much more intrigued and likely to buy the PPV.

Personally, I think it sucks that so many top fighters are in the same camp, thank god Wandy and Shogun did not join the team otherwise we would almost never see Brazilian v Brazilian.


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