# Nick Diaz "Off the Record" Rule Changes Emerge from UFC 158 Weigh-Ins



## onip69 (Oct 14, 2012)

> "Off the Record" Rule Changes Emerge from UFC 158 Weigh-Ins
> 
> 
> Nick Diaz likes to spew a lot of conspiracy theories about how things go down in MMA. Diaz loved painting the picture of Georges St-Pierre being the UFC's golden boy prior to their UFC 158 meeting. It seems Diaz may have a bit of truth to go with his words.
> ...









http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1577651-off-the-record-rule-changes-emerge-from-ufc-158-weigh-ins


Video is still available here and it's still working as of 7:45 ET.

http://www.bjpenn.com/video-did-offi...-act-ufc-news/


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

Dana White's slow descent down the same exact path of boxing continues. Very, very slowly...


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

The champion was sick so they gave both guys the same allowance rather than make it a non-title fight and punish Diaz. A fair judgement.


----------



## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

The weight doesn't matter the action does. Said for a while I was shocked they kept letting Diaz talk or that they put him on primetime. I'd guess he's probably a lot more correct about things than people like to admit.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## tripster (Jun 5, 2006)

I don;t think its a big deal. Did not impact the outcome of the fight in my opinion. IF GSP was that close to not making weight then his last week before the fight was probably not a good one making him weaker, not stronger and 1 hour would not help him.


----------



## SexyHobo (Jan 7, 2012)

And now the video has been blocked/deleted by UFC


----------



## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Very believable. Not good =(


----------



## trimco (Feb 4, 2011)

Removing this video looks very bad for the UFC.

It doesn't have much traction to gain though.


----------



## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

This seems shady as hell.


----------



## trimco (Feb 4, 2011)

Being that I can't watch the video, I have a question for those who did:

Did this guy actually say "off the record"? Doesn't that phrase usually only apply to journalists? 

I'm surprised he didn't mind the filming.


----------



## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

Makes the ufc look bad for sure. At least they made it the same for both fighters, but still, a tweak like that right before the fight, even if done with good intentions, they have to know that smacks of favoritism.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Finnsidious said:


> Makes the ufc look bad for sure. At least they made it the same for both fighters, but still, a tweak like that right before the fight, even if done with good intentions, they have to know that smacks of favoritism.


How? By ensuring by fighters are treated the same and by doing so not protecting their golden boy's title? If they had let it become non-title it would have saved them a lot of potential headaches. People who are saying that this is shady or a sign of corruption need to take a step back and think things through.


----------



## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

Obvious No Contest, Diaz should get an immediate rematch, this is obvious the ONLY reason Nick did not knock George out.. more freakin wolf tickets!!!!


----------



## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

SO EVIL!!! They totally screwed everyone over with this! It's all a big corrupt conspiracy!!!


Seriously, the amount of money on the line, they needed to make a tiny change to make sure this was still a title fight. They let both fighters use it, it's not like they only told GSP. This is nothing compared to the potential fallout if GSP had not made weight, or if ANY champion doesn't make weight.


----------



## onip69 (Oct 14, 2012)

SexyHobo said:


> And now the video has been blocked/deleted by UFC


I posted a link to the video. It's still running .
http://www.bjpenn.com/video-did-off...ufc-158-hidden-cam-captures-the-act-ufc-news/



trimco said:


> Being that I can't watch the video, I have a question for those who did:
> 
> Did this guy actually say "off the record"? Doesn't that phrase usually only apply to journalists?
> 
> I'm surprised he didn't mind the filming.


Yes he said " kinda off the record thing"


----------



## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

They made up for it (assuming GSP was actually 0.9lbs over 170, and Diaz wasn't, and I don't know of any info that makes that claim) buy not disqualifying Diaz's ass when he took dirty shots after the bell ... twice!!

If anything makes the UFC look bad is not kicking someone who would pull that shite out of the company the second the match ended, or at the very least taking points away.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Eh, I see a whole lots of 'ifs' in that article - if St. Pierre was sick and if St. Pierre was injured. I'm not about to get into a whirlwind of speculation when all we have is a deleted video and a vague article. 

Personally, I don't see why Diaz's camp would be upset about this. Would they rather Diaz not have had his title match? Seems like sour grapes from a camp now trying to stir up trouble because Nick lost in embarrassing fashion. I like Diaz, and I hope he sticks around, but again... would they have cared so much about that extra hour if it meant Nick fighting for the title and Nick subsequently won? I doubt it.


----------



## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

I have to admit I'm not sure what to think of this. Thiago Alves came into a fight .5 pound overweight and they still took 20% out of his purse.


----------



## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

Diaz should get 20% of Georges purse.


----------



## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

0.9 who fuxking cares...


----------



## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

This is shady. There is no a 0.9 allowance for title fights, there isn't even a 0.1 allowance for title fights. I don't care if one of them was sick, rules are rules and if you don't honor one of them you might as well not honor all of them.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Break out the pedestals!


----------



## Toroian (Jan 3, 2009)

Dam George is even pampered by the commission!


----------



## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> This is shady. There is no a 0.9 allowance for title fights, there isn't even a 0.1 allowance for title fights. I don't care if one of them was sick, rules are rules and if you don't honor one of them you might as well not honor all of them.


So then you agree that Diaz should be at least DQed from the fight, and probably fired from UFC and suspended from fighting altogether for the two obvious dirty shots he took well after the round ended? "Rules are rules" are they not?


Or are some rules not as 'honourable' as others? 

Oh, and how do we know that GSP was over 170? So far all we know is someone claims that the weight allowance rule was relaxed for this fight .. we don't have confirmation that this was actually the case, and if it was actually relaxed whether GSP took advantage of the relaxed rules .. or for that matter whether Diaz took advantage of the relaxed rule as well?

On the other hand we do know that Diaz took cheap shots between rounds, got caught with banned substances in his blood, misses contractual media appearances, and generally exhibits very poor sportsmanship qualities in and out of the ring. 

If we are going to start holding 'rule breakers' to account, then who the hell is a more flagrant rule breaker than Nick Diaz? Both in and out of the ring?


----------



## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

Does make sense. It was fairly obvious that GSP was struggling for weight - he was cranky, made mention of weight cutting being a pain in the ass, and then the apparent fever and injury.

This thread will perform to the same type as most others on here these days though. Diaz fans will cry foul, GSP fans will say so what ?

As a neutral, I don't really like it at all. No other fighters get given special allowances. Or do they ? Many have struggled with weight cuts for equally justifiable reasons as illness and injury. Did any of them ever recieve specialist treatment, or were they all punished ?

I'm glad the fight went ahead, but any shortcut is leading you down a very slippery slope, imo


----------



## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

NoYards said:


> So then you agree that Diaz should be at least DQed from the fight, and probably fired from UFC and suspended from fighting altogether for the two obvious dirty shots he took well after the round ended? "Rules are rules" are they not?
> 
> 
> Or are some rules not as 'honourable' as others?


The ref decided not to DQ him so the rules were followed. I certainly wouldn't have blamed the ref if he had DQd Nick. That's completely different to making up rules on the fly though. :dunno:


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

The commission would give them the .9 allowance. This could be standard in Montreal and just something nobody mentioned to Diaz's camp. (but something they should have looked into). Different commissions can have slightly different rules, looking at past title fights in Montreal, Thales Leites weighed in at 185 so what are the odds there was no decimal place, GSP weighted 170 against Condit and Koscheck.
And since 2008 None of the weigh ins in Montreal show a decimal in the results. Nobody weighs in at 169.5? Everybody is a round number so to me I think its something that has been in place a long time and yes something GSP was likely aware of already having fought in Montreal previously. While it may have been unfair to Nick at least partial blame could be put on the Diaz camp for not making sure they knew any minor changes instituted by the local commission. Its unair but not malicious.


----------



## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> The ref decided not to DQ him so the rules were followed. I certainly wouldn't have blamed the ref if he had DQd Nick. That's completely different to making up rules on the fly though. :dunno:


Really? How so?

Taking shots after the round is a DQing offence, not DQing him was an "on the fly" decision -- twice.

And while the normal rules is "1 lb allowance" for regular fights and "no allowance" for championship fights, there are exceptions to that rule:



> In non-championship fights, there shall be allowed a 1 pound weigh allowance. In championship fights, the participants must weigh no more than that permitted for the relevant weight division.
> 
> The Commission may also approve catch weight bouts, subject to their review and discretion. For example, the Commission may still decide to allow the contest the maximum weight allowed is 177 pounds if it feels that the contest would still be fair, safe and competitive.
> 
> In addition, if one athlete weighs 264 pounds while the opponent weighs 267 pounds, the Commission may still decide to allow the contest if it determines that the contest would still be fair, safe and competitive in spite of the fact that the two contestants technically weighed in differing weight classes.



So the rules were followed here as well (assuming GSP and/or Diaz were actually over the 170lb mark, which has yet to be shown, unlike the cheap shots, which there is no question about.)

Rules that Diaz got away with and no one seems to care:



> Using abusive language in fenced ring/fighting area
> 
> Attacking an opponent on or during the break
> 
> ...


But let GSP "abuse" a rule that is actually more to the benefit of Diaz than GSP (if it was violated by only GSP or at all) and guess who gets flack?


----------



## kay_o_ken (Jan 26, 2009)

if i were to guess i'd say gsp went to dana with concerns about his weight so they made a last minute adjustment to the rules for him which is why diaz wasn't let in on it until then. looks kind of shady and maybe it is but the fact is every sports league caters to their stars like that. its how you make money.


----------



## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm wondering why both websites took the articles and video down.

The video wasn't property of the UFC, and they're supposed to be independent news outlets, and articles like these are protected speech.

That's the shady part. with no explanation of the original rule change forthcoming, I''m forced to assume they were somehow bullied into silence. that's far shadier imo than the original issue.


----------



## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

NoYards said:


> Really? How so?
> 
> Taking shots after the round is a DQing offence, not DQing him was an "on the fly" decision -- twice.
> 
> ...


Yes, and the ref saw it and warned Nick. Case closed.

And I don't see how the rules were followed if they actually weighed in over 170.0. The rules you posted don't say anything about a WW championship fight being contested at 170.1 or more.

The other rules Nick broke were all inside the octagon where it is the ref's job to take care of them. If the ref didn't think it was against the rules then that's that.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Did it determine the outcome? No. 

Is it shady as hell and proof that GSP gets pampered. Yes. 

If the UFC is taking down these videos then it sure seems like it is a "big deal" to them. No?


----------



## sg160187 (Apr 11, 2010)

To be fair as much as rules are rules, it's just the weigh in and both fighters will be fighting well above the 170 limit anyway come fight night. Saying that it's 100% shady the way the whole situation was handled doesn't paint the sport in a positive light. The fact the ufc took down the video just makes it look worse.

As for NoYards speech about how Diaz should have been DQ offence for striking out after the bell. UFC rules state it is at the referee discretion. Also saying that changing a rule set in stone e.g. weigh in limits is the same as something that should be at the referees discretion is not the same no matter how you try and spin it...

As for the rules grabbing the fence/gloves/shorts is also in the same bracket of offence and you always see it happen at least twice before they get a warning.

@NoYards... Serious question do you just defend GSP till the death, or do you detest Diaz because of his unique form of 'stand up lay and pray'?


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Nate Diaz missed weight on first attempt and everyone said how unprofessional he and his team were.

But since Georges gets to have a different set of rules to look like he is on weight....he is PROFESSIONAL AS IT GETS!

It is funny how peoples fandom or down right hatred for certain fighters cloud any sort of judgement on certain situations.


----------



## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

Does anyone even know for a fact that George weighed in at 170.9 ???


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

locnott said:


> Does anyone even know for a fact that George weighed in at 170.9 ???


Nope. But we have assumptions and speculation, which in the land of the internet are as good as facts :wink01:


----------



## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

This is shady as hell. Anybody who has cut weight before knows how much 1 pound of water actually is. Think about a 16 oz. bottle of water. That's the extra amount that Diaz had to cut that GSP didn't.

Nick had virtually no chance of winning and it probably didn't make much of a difference but what the f***? I would be so pissed if I was Nick.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Nate was told to lose .6 lbs. Go back and sweat it out. 

Either Montreal has funky rules and seemed like an hour before hand would be a good time to let Nick know.

Or the whole commission or UFC changed the rules because they knew GSP was sick and having trouble.

I'm hoping it is the first one.


----------



## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

locnott said:


> Does anyone even know for a fact that George weighed in at 170.9 ???


I don't even think it's important. Weight classes are a joke anyway. What's important to me is that the unified rules of MMA state that both fighters must weigh in at 170 or below at a specific time. I'm pretty sure there's no rule that says "You guys get another hour to cut weight oh and by the way you don't have to make 170".


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Nope. But we have assumptions and speculation, which in the land of the internet are as good as facts :wink01:


You guys completely miss the whole point.

The question isn't did GSP weigh in at 170.9. What is anyone here saying that has much to do with that? The question is what were Montreal's rules beforehand, and did anything change to accommodation a fighter?

Everyone is so quick to try and make this a DIaz vs GSP fans dramafest. It is more about the legitimacy of the sport. If they just changed criteria to fit the fight and get away with it, then what happenes next? Or 5 years from now?

This is boxing type stuff. And people rip boxing when anything corrupt happens.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> You guys completely miss the whole point.
> 
> The question isn't did GSP weigh in at 170.9. What is anyone here saying that has much to do with that? The question is what were Montreal's rules beforehand, and did anything change to accommodation a fighter?
> 
> ...


I'm a fan of both fighters, as you're well aware, and so I'm not looking to create any 'Diaz fan vs. GSP fan drama'. But there are plenty of people in this thread suggesting that GSP ought to give Nick 50% of his purse and that GSP is pampered when there is virtually zero evidence to suggest that GSP was having weight troubles. 

I'm all for discussing Montreal's quirky rules and whether UFC tried to pull a fast one. But this thread has clearly headed the direction of 'GSP weighed heavy,' an accusation we have not one shred of evidence to support.


----------



## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Canadian Psycho said:


> I'm a fan of both fighters, as you're well aware, and so I'm not looking to create any 'Diaz fan vs. GSP fan drama'. But there are plenty of people in this thread suggesting that GSP ought to give Nick 50% of his purse and that GSP is pampered when there is virtually zero evidence to suggest that GSP was having weight troubles.
> 
> *I'm all for discussing Montreal's quirky rules and whether UFC tried to pull a fast one.* But this thread has clearly headed the direction of 'GSP weighed heavy,' an accusation we have not one shred of evidence to support.


I don't much about Montreal's rules, but I do know that the articles and video have been pulled. I think it's reasonable to assume that if this was the normal practice in Montreal, a statement to that effect would have been made, instead of an attempt to silence criticism.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Sports_Nerd said:


> I don't much about Montreal's rules, but I do know that the articles and video have been pulled. I think it's reasonable to assume that if this was the normal practice in Montreal, a statement to that effect would have been made, instead of an attempt to silence criticism.


Chances are UFC did try to pull a fast one. But was it even acted upon? Did GSP make a legitimate 170 regardless of the loophole? Was there a panic wherein something fishy was said in confidence that ultimately never came to fruition? There are too many variables at play here. 

If UFC tried to accommodate a fighter with 'new' rules, then I agree it's not right. You can't ask one fighter to make weight for a title fight at one event and then extend another some loophole at the next event. But I'm torn... had one fighter not made the 170 mark, this wouldn't have been a title fight... was this just the lesser of two evils? Would fans have been all for this deviation were it made openly and Nick was given more than an hour's notice? There's a lot to ask ourselves.


----------



## onip69 (Oct 14, 2012)

Sports_Nerd said:


> I don't much about Montreal's rules, but I do know that the articles and video have been pulled. I think it's reasonable to assume that if this was the normal practice in Montreal, a statement to that effect would have been made, instead of an attempt to silence criticism.


The Video is still working on this site as of this post. Click the link to see it.

http://www.bjpenn.com/video-did-off...ufc-158-hidden-cam-captures-the-act-ufc-news/


----------



## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

sg160187 said:


> To be fair as much as rules are rules, it's just the weigh in and both fighters will be fighting well above the 170 limit anyway come fight night. Saying that it's 100% shady the way the whole situation was handled doesn't paint the sport in a positive light. The fact the ufc took down the video just makes it look worse.
> 
> As for NoYards speech about how Diaz should have been DQ offence for striking out after the bell. UFC rules state it is at the referee discretion. Also saying that changing a rule set in stone e.g. weigh in limits is the same as something that should be at the referees discretion is not the same no matter how you try and spin it...
> 
> ...


Okay, first, the weigh-in rules are NOT 'set in stone' .. I posted the rules which clearly allow the commission to make modifications to those rules, that's not "spinning", that's an 'advanced and complicated method of determining the facts' called "reading the rules" ... it allows a 'catch-weight', and while many people believe that a 'catch-weight' fight can not include a championship fight, there is no such rule .. it is 'traditional' not to do so, but if we are talking about rules, then you'll need to show me the rules that state this.

Second, I actually think it was the proper decision not to DQ Diaz, and the ref used the proper discretion ... just as the commission did in modifying the weigh in rules (IF they actually did that, and it actually came into play for either GSP or Diaz.) The point is not that all rules need to be strictly adhered to, the point is if you're going to whine about minor discrepancies in how you believe the rules should be adhered to, then let's talk about ALL the rules and how strict or lenient there are adhered to.

Third, I'll defend GSP when the argument against him is BS, as are 90% of the "boring fighter' arguments I've seen so far.

I'll admit to liking GSP more than Diaz. I don't play into all the 'anti-hereo' bullshite, Diaz is an anti-socoal punk, a whiner, and a bully, whose whole shtick is to 'break the rules' so so-called "rebels" can identify with his nonsense. I don't put up with people like him in my real life, and I see no need to support someone like him just because he's a UFC fighter.

If you feel GSPs fighting style is boring, that's fine, that is your opinion, and you are welcome to it whether it is based on solid evidence, emotional reactions, or ignorance of MMA ... but in case you haven't noticed, I don't just post a bunch of simple emotional opinions, I post data to back up my opinions and try to explain why I have those opinions (if you disagree with the 'facts' as, or how, I present them, then fine, present your own 'facts' and we can debate their validity and meaning, but don't simply ignore that I am posting actual data and claim it is just opinion) ... such as Diaz's 'stand up L&P' ... which I clearly explained as someone using a single technique they are very strong at in order to 'play safe' (ie: Diaz is usually under no more 'risk' using his 'walk forward with his iron chin stuck out in front of him until he can wear down his opponent', than GSP is using his TD and G&P technique. You may find Diaz doing the same thing over and over again exciting, and I may find GSP doing the same thing over and over again exciting .. but both fighters are basically doing the same thing .. doing what they are best at to limit risk (or as you would call it: "playing it safe".)


----------



## AlexZ (Sep 14, 2007)

Rules are rules when Diaz gets busted for "marijuana metabolites" but when it come to established weight guidelines for the poster boy.... :dunno:

Not only would the fight be a non-title fight but Diaz should have been entitled to a percentage of GSP purse. 

Who cares about .9 lbs? NSAC the same people that care about banned substances etc. etc.


----------



## sg160187 (Apr 11, 2010)

NoYards said:


> Okay, first, the weigh-in rules are NOT 'set in stone' .. I posted the rules which clearly allow the commission to make modifications to those rules, that's not "spinning", that's an 'advanced and complicated method of determining the facts' called "reading the rules" ... it allows a 'catch-weight', and while many people believe that a 'catch-weight' fight can not include a championship fight, there is no such rule .. it is 'traditional' not to do so, but if we are talking about rules, then you'll need to show me the rules that state this.
> 
> Second, I actually think it was the proper decision not to DQ Diaz, and the ref used the proper discretion ... just as the commission did in modifying the weigh in rules (IF they actually did that, and it actually came into play for either GSP or Diaz.) The point is not that all rules need to be strictly adhered to, the point is if you're going to whine about minor discrepancies in how you believe the rules should be adhered to, then let's talk about ALL the rules and how strict or lenient there are adhered to.
> 
> ...



*Except with the approval of the Commission, or its executive director*, the classes for mixed martial arts contests or exhibitions and the weights for each class shall be:

Welterweight over 155 to 170 pounds
Middleweight over 170 to 185 pounds

In non-championship fights, there shall be allowed a 1 pound weigh allowance. *In championship fights, the participants must weigh no more than that permitted for the relevant weight division.*

Over 170 includes 170.1 so unless they are fighting for the MW title, yes the weigh in rules are set in stone... Only grey area I can see you clutching at is the first section I bolded, but in truth I can't see how a commission can just up the weight by a pound. For a giggle can you tell me how many catch weight TITLE fights there have been in the UFC to date?

Ignorance of MMA is comparing lay and pray to trying to walk through your opponents punches... Do I think GSP's fighting style is boring... Yes I do but more because he has the tools to finish or at least try and finish some of the opponents he has faced and chooses not to. I respect the skills he has in his arsenal I just think it's a shame he chooses not to use them... I just can't understand how you can compare a guy walking forward with his chin in the air as 'safe' in the same way as laying on top of an opponent avoiding nearly all chances to either submit or pass into full guard and GnP someone...

What happened to the biggest beating of Diaz's life we were meant to witness? If I had the time I'd post a picture of the damage a LW in the form of BJ Penn did in 3 rounds compared to the damage the WW champ GSP did in 5...

As for you not posting with emotion but only fact you sure seem heated to me


----------



## AlexZ (Sep 14, 2007)

^^^Owned!!!


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

GSP cheating again...smh


----------



## duckyou666 (Mar 17, 2011)

I've seen this crap on another site. Simple fact is, that if they didn't give GSP the extra time, Diaz wouldn't have been in a title fight. If anything, it was for Diaz's benefit that GSP be allowed extra time. It's not like if he missed weight, they'd just cancel the fight, it'd turn into a 5 round non-title fight. The extra time benefited Diaz more than GSP. At least the extra time gave Diaz the opportunity to fight for a title rather than be dominated in a 5 round non-title fight.


----------



## SexyHobo (Jan 7, 2012)

duckyou666 said:


> If anything, it was for Diaz's benefit that GSP be allowed extra time.


I disagree with that. Imagine the fans if GSP didn't make weight. So many MMA fans aren't exactly forgiving, make one mistake and they turn on you. I say it benefited GSP and the UFC more. (If it's true if he was struggling with losing weight)


----------



## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

sg160187 said:


> *Except with the approval of the Commission, or its executive director*, the classes for mixed martial arts contests or exhibitions and the weights for each class shall be:
> 
> Welterweight over 155 to 170 pounds
> Middleweight over 170 to 185 pounds
> ...


Does the approval of the commission only apply to non-title fights?
if not then he commission obviously approved it so this whole conversation would be pointless...


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

duckyou666 said:


> I've seen this crap on another site. Simple fact is, that if they didn't give GSP the extra time, Diaz wouldn't have been in a title fight. If anything, it was for Diaz's benefit that GSP be allowed extra time. It's not like if he missed weight, they'd just cancel the fight, it'd turn into a 5 round non-title fight. The extra time benefited Diaz more than GSP. At least the extra time gave Diaz the opportunity to fight for a title rather than be dominated in a 5 round non-title fight.


This is getting ignored to much as is the fact that every event in Montreal since Serra/GSP has failed to use a decimal at weigh ins. The official records all show even numbers this isn't a coincidence. Secondly somebody in every title fight has weighed in on the line GSP at 170 or Thales Leites at 185. You think they shot it even? Like I said I think maybe Diaz's corner were the ones that messed up by not making sure they knew any regional discrepancies from the normal unified rules.



SexyHobo said:


> I disagree with that. Imagine the fans if GSP didn't make weight. So many MMA fans aren't exactly forgiving, make one mistake and they turn on you. I say it benefited GSP and the UFC more. (If it's true if he was struggling with losing weight)


Really you don't think GSP coming out saying I was sick and struggling but I still wanted to come out here and put on a show for all of you and give Nick Diaz the ass kicking he deserves would have ignited that fans? Hell the UFC could likely spin it to make him MORE popular. I don't think you give those guys enough credit they sold Dan Hardy, Joe Stevenson and Thales Leites as legitimate Contenders in there divisions, selling a sick GSP trying valiantly to make weight and fight is a cake walk...


----------



## sg160187 (Apr 11, 2010)

locnott said:


> Does the approval of the commission only apply to non-title fights?
> if not then he commission obviously approved it so this whole conversation would be pointless...


Yea that's the only grey area atm, I'm trying to find out if this excludes title fights. My reasoning behind it is Travis Lutter failed to make weight by 1.5 pounds for a UFC title fight and it was changed to a 3 round non title fight for this reason. Weird how the commission would allow it for the GSP fight but not the Lutter fight

*Commissions may also approve catch weight bouts, subject to their review and discretion. For example, the Commission may still decide to allow the contest if it feels that the contest would still be fair, safe and competitive if a set catch weight is set in advance at 163 pounds, for example.*

Catchweight has to be agreed by both parties involved in advance at the very least, so I can't see how telling the Diaz camp in a shady way just to 'keep them in the loop' follows suit with this.

The only thing I can find about catchweight specifically stating about title fights is on wiki and is jumbled in between boxing and mma so how much truth there is in it is always debatable...

Combat sports commonly have defined weight classes with specific weight limits. For example, each boxing division with the exception of heavyweight has its own limits for weight classes, ranging from 105 pounds for minimum weight to 200 pounds for cruiserweight and varying in range in the weight classes in between. *In order to fight for a championship in these weight classes the fighters must come in to the fight at or below said weight.*

Saying that I'm not saying GSP didn't make weight just that it was shady the way the whole situation was dealt with.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

AlexZ said:


> Rules are rules when Diaz gets busted for "marijuana metabolites" but when it come to established weight guidelines for the poster boy.... :dunno:
> 
> Not only would the fight be a non-title fight but Diaz should have been entitled to a percentage of GSP purse.
> 
> Who cares about .9 lbs? NSAC the same people that care about banned substances etc. etc.


Exactly. What is .9 lbs? Well what is the tiny micro metabolites of cannabis that were found? Nate Diaz was .6 lbs over for his title fight....yet had to go back and lose that weight and was not benefited from rounding down to 155. Seems like all commissions and all champ fights would go by the same rules. How hard is it to get a decimal scale? I have a decimal scale. 

I understand different commissions do slightly different things. And perhaps there is a good explanation for a rep coming up to Diaz an hour beforehand to tell him the rules or new rules of the weigh in. 

Rules is rules. When shady things happen in boxing, MMA fans cry foul up and down. But when something like this happens it is no big deal. The double standard is crazy.

I'll be interested to learn what actually went down and what the rules are/were changed too. Hopefully we get an explanation. And hopefully commissions don't have the ability to change rules on the fly.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Exactly. What is .9 lbs? Well what is the tiny micro metabolites of cannabis that were found? Nate Diaz was .6 lbs over for his title fight....yet had to go back and lose that weight and was not benefited from rounding down to 155. Seems like all commissions and all champ fights would go by the same rules. How hard is it to get a decimal scale? I have a decimal scale.
> 
> I understand different commissions do slightly different things. And perhaps there is a good explanation for a rep coming up to Diaz an hour beforehand to tell him the rules or new rules of the weigh in.
> 
> ...


*Its not the commission that came over and told his they were changing the rules a UFC employee came over to make sure Diaz was aware of the rules in place. 
*

People need to learn to differentiate between the UFC and the AC's


----------



## SexyHobo (Jan 7, 2012)

Toxic said:


> Really you don't think GSP coming out saying I was sick and struggling but I still wanted to come out here and put on a show for all of you and give Nick Diaz the ass kicking he deserves would have ignited that fans?


Sure I think some people would have been fired up. On the other hand I think a lot of people would have been crying about how unprofessional GSP is even though he was sick. As everyone knows pro athletes are super human and never get sick or have personal issues. 



Toxic said:


> Hell the UFC could likely spin it to make him MORE popular. I don't think you give those guys enough credit they sold Dan Hardy, Joe Stevenson and Thales Leites as legitimate Contenders in there divisions, selling a sick GSP trying valiantly to make weight and fight is a cake walk...


You're probably right. I guess I'm extremely negative towards mma fans that switch wagon after their favourite fighter has one defeat or one bad showing.

If GSP had missed weight by a little, personally I'd still be a fan.


----------



## AlexZ (Sep 14, 2007)

Toxic said:


> *Its not the commission that came over and told his they were changing the rules a UFC employee came over to make sure Diaz was aware of the rules in place.
> *
> 
> People need to learn to differentiate between the UFC and the AC's


So if a "UFC employee came over" and decided to allow GSP to be 5 or 10 lbs over weight NSAC would let it fly..... seems legit :confused05:

People need to stop justifying the fact that there was blatant favoritism and that it takes away from the integrity of the sport.


----------



## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

AlexZ said:


> So if a "UFC employee came over" and decided to allow GSP to be 5 or 10 lbs over weight NSAC would let it fly..... seems legit :confused05:
> 
> People need to stop justifying the fact that there was blatant favoritism and that it takes away from the integrity of the sport.


Not all Athletic Commissions use the same standards and rules. This is especially true when you factor in different countries. The UFC employee was making sure Diaz knew the rules in Montreal. It is evident that he didn't. Most fans didn't know them either it seems.

There is no justifying here, there is just common sense.


----------



## AlexZ (Sep 14, 2007)

TheAuger said:


> Not all Athletic Commissions use the same standards and rules. This is especially true when you factor in different countries. The UFC employee was making sure Diaz knew the rules in Montreal. It is evident that he didn't. Most fans didn't know them either it seems.
> 
> There is no justifying here, there is just common sense.


Did you read sg160187 posts on the commissions guidelines for weight classes?

Common sense reveals Canadian favoritism.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

AlexZ said:


> So if a "UFC employee came over" and decided to allow GSP to be 5 or 10 lbs over weight NSAC would let it fly..... seems legit :confused05:
> 
> People need to stop justifying the fact that there was blatant favoritism and that it takes away from the integrity of the sport.


I think your missing the entire point. The UFC isnt the one allowing the extra .9 the Quebec Athletic Commission does not use decimals but merely rounds down. A UFC employee came over to Diaz to make sure he was aware that the AC did so because its not normal in other places like Nevada or California. Diaz can complain for not knowing it earlier but I would think it would be he and his teams responsiblity to understand the rules in the jusrisdiction they are fighting in. In good faith the UFC likely should have let him know sooner but regardless its not there call.

The UFC has practically zero power over the AC's, hell the Quebec one almost got the Leites/Silva card cancelled because they were gonna implement a rule were if a fighter was knocked down he got a standing 10 count like in boxing. It got voted down but they stated than that if the UFC wanted to do buisiness in Montreal they would have to abide by the rules they put forth. People need to understand to that Quebec as a province likes to do things there own way even if it seems some times like they are being different just for the sake of being different.



AlexZ said:


> Did you read sg160187 posts on the commissions guidelines for weight classes?
> 
> Common sense reveals Canadian favoritism.


What commissions guidelines are those because the province of Quebec has pretty much nothing in english anywhere. Those are the general unified rules from what I see and that means nothing considering athletic commissions can set what ever rules they want.


----------



## AlexZ (Sep 14, 2007)

Toxic said:


> I think your missing the entire point. The UFC isnt the one allowing the extra .9 the Quebec Athletic Commission does not use decimals but merely rounds down. A UFC employee came over to Diaz to make sure he was aware that the AC did so because its not normal in other places like Nevada or California. Diaz can complain for not knowing it earlier but I would think it would be he and his teams responsiblity to understand the rules in the jusrisdiction they are fighting in. In good faith the UFC likely should have let him know sooner but regardless its not there call.


My problem is that there is no concrete evidence that the Canadian commission has implemented this .9 lbs allowance? Without evidence, it's probable the Canadian commission made it up for GSP's benefit.

Maybe someone could shed better light on it instead of sweeping it under the rug.


----------



## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

AlexZ said:


> Did you read sg160187 posts on the commissions guidelines for weight classes?
> 
> Common sense reveals Canadian favoritism.


Common sense suggests those are the guidelines for AC in the United States seeing as there is no source. Common sense also suggests that prior events in Montreal were held to the same standard as UFC 158. :sarcastic12:


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

AlexZ said:


> My problem is that there is no concrete evidence that the Canadian commission has implemented this .9 lbs allowance? Without evidence, it's probable the Canadian commission made it up for GSP's benefit.
> 
> Maybe someone could shed better light on it instead of sweeping it under the rug.


Well I would think the fact that since the Quebec Commission actually came up with a set of rules for MMA, (just before Silva/Leites,(long story involving an event with a riot the week before). ) Every single UFC event held in Montreal has no decimals in any of the official weigh in results. It was something that nobody has likely picked up till now but at the same time both GSP and Thales Leites have come in at the respective limits (GSP 170, Leites 185). The odds of hitting the weight that bang on for a title fight seem absurd so I am gonna come to the only logical conclusion that this has been in effect since then. the difficult thing for guys like Diaz and Condit though would be that as its in Quebec and government it likely is all printed in French and made as difficult as possible for english speakers.. Its unlikely that most people who fight there would be aware of this because of that.

Seriously go back and watch every weigh in for a UFC event in Montral since then and you won't find a single decimal place.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Canada - we do what we want.


----------



## duckyou666 (Mar 17, 2011)

sg160187 said:


> Yea that's the only grey area atm, I'm trying to find out if this excludes title fights. My reasoning behind it is *Travis Lutter failed to make weight by 1.5 pounds for a UFC title fight and it was changed to a 3 round non title fight* for this reason. Weird how the commission would allow it for the GSP fight but not the Lutter fight
> 
> *Commissions may also approve catch weight bouts, subject to their review and discretion. For example, the Commission may still decide to allow the contest if it feels that the contest would still be fair, safe and competitive if a set catch weight is set in advance at 163 pounds, for example.*
> 
> ...


There's nothing shady about it. I bolded the the first part for a reason. They turned the Lutter fight into a non-title fight. That's exactly what woulda happened if GSP didn't make weight. Diaz would've been dominated for 5 rounds in a non-title fight rather than a title fight. Remember back in the day when..., I think it was Paulo Filho, the WEC champ missed weight against challenger Chael Sonnen? Yeah, the champ missed weight, and Chael won, but didn't win the title because the champ missing weight changed it to a non-title fight. That's why Diaz is the only one that had anything to gain from GSP getting extra time. If anything, despite Diaz not having anything to do with it, the whole thing is shady in Diaz's favor.


----------



## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

sg160187 said:


> *Except with the approval of the Commission, or its executive director*, the classes for mixed martial arts contests or exhibitions and the weights for each class shall be:
> 
> Welterweight over 155 to 170 pounds
> Middleweight over 170 to 185 pounds
> ...


Wow, you sure do go through an awful lot of effort to miss a point, don't you?

Ok, let's look at the basics first.

a 170 lb requirement with a 1 lbs allowance for non title fights, and a 'strict' 170 lbs requirement for title fights.

First, the paragraphs right after that one you provided (which you omitted for obvious reasons as it doesn't suit your argument) clearly spells out legal variations to this rule. And it doesn't say that these variations only apply to non-title fights. The only stipulation is that the fight must still result in a fair ans safe match .. there is no requirement for the fighters to both agree before hand (of course, when the catch weight is something like 5 or 10 lbs between fighters that normally are in different weight classes, and is set up months n advance, the fighters are going to be involved in that, but if the difference is withing a few 10ths of a pound then the commission, the commission that looks after the jurisdiction the fight will be held, which can have different rules than other commissions in other jurisdictions, can make their own determination.

Now, even assuming that the commission is not allowed to adjust the rules for "catch weight" without the fighters agreement, if the Quebec commission does indeed just round down to the closest lbs, then there is still no issue with the rules even assuming GSP came in at 170.9

If the fighters are fighting in a jurisdiction where that commission has a different weigh in requirement, say one where they rounded down to the nearest 1/10th of a lbs, then 170.2 would be a violation in that jurisdiction, and the fighters and their teams would be responsible for knowing and adhering to those rules. 

Lets take the case of two WW fighters; Fighter "A" fighting a championship match, and fighter "B" fighting a regular match.

Fighter "A" weights in at 170.9 and is officially listed at 170 .... Fighter "B" weighs in at 171.9 and is officially listed at 171 .... both fighters make weight, and the rules above are strictly adhered to for everyone without any requirement for a 'catch weight' ruling. 

Oh sure, they don't follow your opinion of the weigh in rules, where there is no allowance given at all, but fortunately, you are not on any commission, so your opinion on how the rules should or should not work do not come into play. 

Now, let's actually look at the weight ins shall we?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLzCY4Cqi2E. 

If you bothered to watch them, then you might have noticed that not a single fighter weighted in at anything other than an 'even'(integer) weight ... no 169.5 lbs, no 170.5 weights, no weight at all that was anything other than an exact XXX.0 lbs ... so, since those are obviously the rules (round down to the nearest lbs) that this commission operates under, then that is the weight rules that the fighters have to live with.

If Diaz and his team are unaware of the rules they are fighting under, whose fault is that?

Now, you may want to think that this is changing the rules for a 'giggle' ... but these are the rules under which they run their commission, if they want to ignore the fractional portion of weight, then they ignore the fractional portion of the weight. It's their commission in their jurisdiction and if they want to make the fighters wear pink tutus, then if the fighters want to fight, that's what they will wear ... heck, being a commission in a country that doesn't cling to old archaic weight measurements, they could actually require a weight in Kilos, and round up or down to the nearest 1/2 kilo and your "opinion" would do nothing to change the rules.

It's also interesting to note that in Boxing, the 'catch weight' can indeed be used for championship matches, so I see no reason that it could not also be allowed in MMA since they have adopted much of the same set of rules.

As for the rest of your nonsense, if you're too thick to understand the simple rules when they are spelled out for you in black and white, then I have no problem imagining how you "can't understand" the standing 'L&P" reference, or how Diaz could be fighting 'safe' by using the same techniques all the time (even unwilling to change up and take risks when he was obviously way down on points ... unwilling to take risks when losing is the very definition of 'playing it safe' .. where 'playing it safe' when obviously way ahead on points could at least have the advantage of being considered 'playing it smart' as well as 'playing it safe'.)


----------



## DanTheJu (Mar 3, 2007)

The simple answer here is common sense... The Athletic Commission in this area has always rounded weights since the Matt Serra v. Georges fight. In the video, it was an employee of the UFC talking to Nicks camp, making sure they were aware of the rules, not the AC letting Nicks camp know there was a change in the rules.

Every AC is allowed to adopt their own rules. They do not have to follow the unified rules at all. Its up to the UFC to decide if they want to hold an event where a commission sets rules that are too far removed from the unified rules.

All rules that have been quoted in this thread so far have been from the unified rules or the NSAC set of rules, which have NOTHING to do with this fight or any fight that has ever been held there.

There was no favoritism, the only similarity to favoritism is the rules are published in French, so GSP could certainly have a better grasp of the rules than a non-french speaker. But the same could be said about rules being published in English giving the non-English speaker a disadvantage here in the USA.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Fun fact - sense isn't common, and so the term 'common sense' is a flawed one. 

It's simply 'sense'... people lack 'sense'... the more you know


----------



## DanTheJu (Mar 3, 2007)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Fun fact - sense isn't common, and so the term 'common sense' is a flawed one.
> 
> It's simply 'sense'... people lack 'sense'... the more you know


Okay then....

The simple answer here is sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts...


----------



## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

Didn't Nick retire? This BS is a complete non-issue in regards to the outcome of the fight. Nick had nothing for GsP plain and simple. Just go away Nick , your days of relevance at the top of the division are over. Go away with some class/dignity if possible because all this allegation BS just comes off as pathetic considering his effort in the fight.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

I'll give Diaz a break in so far as complaining publicly and/or making this video and releasing it.

Someone made the video but we don't know that it was Diaz or one of his camp, and while he did complain about it in the video, I don't think he's made any big deal out of it outside of that video.

The issue here is the rules, and if they were followed properly.

The evidence so far seems to consistently suggest that this is how the Quebec commission regulates the weigh ins, and they've done it consistently, and fairly (although they are not using the exact same rules as the US commissions, but if anyone had bothered to look, the commissions around the world can, and do, use some very different rules, including weight classes, although usually they change many of the big differences to conform more to the UFC rules when UFC fights come to town) .... although Diaz and his camp didn't seem to be aware of the differences.


----------



## onip69 (Oct 14, 2012)

> *Decimal Controversy: Nick Diaz's lawyer releases texts from UFC & Quebec officials *
> By Brent Brookhouse on Mar 28 2013, 8:08p @brentbrookhouse 48
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/3/28/4158616/ufc-158-nick-diaz-lawyer-texts-decimal-controversy


----------



## AlexZ (Sep 14, 2007)

^^^It's weird that they would deny knowing about it specially when the video clearly documents the "off the record" notice.

Can we get a clear answer and move on?


----------

