# GSP as a Middleweight. . .



## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

. . .how good would he be?

In my opinion, he'd be a "good" middleweight, but he'd fall short of being an "elite" middleweight.

The reason i bring this up is because of the "GSP vs Silva" and "best p4p" threads. Well, to me its extremely difficult to consider someone best p4p when they havent fought above their weight.

I know GSP has great wrestling, which is phenomenal considering he had no background in wrestling prior to mma, he's a blackbelt in bjj, though we dont really see much of what he can do on the ground.

The problem, in my opinion, lies with his striking. I believe his kicks are his best weapon. But, his head movement is his biggest pitfall.

What are your thoughts?


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## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

I think hw could very well dominate that division. The guy is extremely talented and a very quick learner. He would find a way to be the best.


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## Royce (Nov 10, 2008)

i agree with the OP.
GSP is very talented..but his raw power isnt enough for MW.even in WW he doesnt seem to be have KO power in his hands.and his frame and reach isnt ideal for MW either.


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## looney liam (Jun 22, 2007)

gsp would have to bulk up big time to be an elite middleweight. he already has the technique, but guys like marqaudt will be too strong for him right now. theres also the problem that his reach wouldnt be an advantage anymore at middleweight, so he'd have to rely alot more on his grappling.

i wouldn't be interested in gsp moving up, apart from an A.silva fight. gsp is built perfectly for ww, its not his fault he's too good compared to the rest of the divison.


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## randyspankstito (Sep 25, 2006)

Screw that, I wanna see him fight Alves.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

_One_ of the reasons GSP dominates at WW is because his strength and people at MW are stronger so that would probably lessen an advantage of his. He would still do very well, but do I think he could completely dominate the division? Probably not, definitely top 5 though.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

randyspankstito said:


> Screw that, I wanna see him fight Alves.


Agreed that Alves could pose a great threat to GSP. Though if GSP sticks and moves, you may aswell stick a fork in Alves cos he'd be done by the end of the third


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## AceFranklin88 (Apr 21, 2007)

I think the bigger guys at MW (Okami, Franklin, Marquardt, etc) would beat GSP. He's built well for the WW division and will do fine there. Maybe after he cleans out the division he can move up. Until then, I'm content with him owning everyone at WW.


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## Shamrock-Ortiz (Sep 22, 2006)

No doubt in my mind that GSP would be elite at Middleweight. I think he'd beat Anderson Silva most times.

Henderson may be a tough match considering Hendo's wrestling, and his chin.

Shooting on A Silva wouldn't be much of a problem though IMO.

He doesn't have much left to do at Welterweight. If he beats BJ, only Thiago Alves left to fight really. Of course there are other prospects, Yoshida, Kim, Hazelett.. But Koscheck, Sanchez, Alves, Fitch are above their level right now.


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## shake&bake (Dec 17, 2006)

GSP has nothing left really after alves. Sanchez is the only one left he is yet to beat out of the top of the division and that fight is not as huge as it once could have been with his loses to fitch/koschek. So maybe not terrible idea for him to fight silva. would put him on his back and has shown the ability to avoid subs.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Shamrock-Ortiz said:


> No doubt in my mind that GSP would be elite at Middleweight. I think he'd beat Anderson Silva most times.


Really? Silva would have a huge reach advantage, four inches of height, and a good fifteen-twenty pounds... and it's not like Silva is a slouch in any of the areas GSP is good at except maybe wrestling. I dunno. Maybe some times, but most times?


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

imo GSP wouldnt be as dominant at 185 but would still do very well. He'll have to adapt his game to much larger opponents thus a bit less wrestling and more grappling.
I think his BJJ is very underrated and we'll see him using it (more) at 185.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

GSP has incredible athleticism, great motivation, and a plethora of tools to make the perfect well rounded fighter. As a MW he would out perform most everyone with little trouble except for Silva, and the two guys who shift weight classes, Franklin and Hendo. I think GSP could beat all those guys, but it would be a hard fought battle. If GSP packed on some muscle and added a lot more strength to his game, he would be a terrifying MW.


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

GSP still needs to have at least 3-4 title defences before he gets rushed up to middleweight to challenge Anderson Silva.

If GSP is victorious against BJ, he should have to fight Alves. After that, I would be interested in seeing him fight against Sanchez as well as another fight with Koscheck.

It is a terrible misconception that GSP is a huge welterweight. Granted he is a big welterweight, he would be drawfed by some of the middleweights. Although I believe GSP would have a solid run at middleweight, I think he'll have a lot of problems with fighters like Dan, Rich (yeah, I know he's not in middleweight anymore), Nate (not sure if they would fight since they are in the same camp), Anderson, etc.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Dana said the winner of Penn/GSP will first have to face Thiago. So if GSP beats Penn, he'll be facing Thiago first and imo win or loose by the end of 09, he'll be facing Silva at a catchweight (before he retires). They definitely want to put this fight together because it will sell lots of PPVs.
Important point: GSP facing Silva doesnt mean he's definitely moving up to face other 185ers right away. I think he'll want to clear the WW division first (kos, sanchez, maybe fitch again etc) then move up in weight.


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

There are some BIG dudes in the MW divison! 
He would have a lot of trouble with guys like Franklin (assuming he comes back to 185), Okami, Silva and oh yeah supposedly Reljic is gonna be at 185 now? Wow. I know we haven't seen him in action at that weight class yet, but to add to my point, the guy is huge.


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## Superman55 (May 3, 2007)

GSP is extremely talented. P4P one of the best fighters in the world, however as I middle-weight I think he would be top 10 maybe top 5 at best. People at 185 are natural 205ers or higher. Someone in another thread said that, Silva drops down from like 215? Im Sure Franklin and Hendo do the same as well. GSP drops from what? 190? Thats a huge difference. Not just in weight, size, but also in reach.
GSP has amazing wrestling, but I think he would be "Brock Lesnar'd" a little bit in the MW division to put it lightly.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Superman55 said:


> GSP is extremely talented. P4P one of the best fighters in the world, however as I middle-weight I think he would be top 10 maybe top 5 at best. People at 185 are natural 205ers or higher. Someone in another thread said that, Silva drops down from like 215? Im Sure Franklin and Hendo do the same as well. GSP drops from what? 190? Thats a huge difference. Not just in weight, size, *but also in reach*.
> GSP has amazing wrestling, but I think he would be "Brock Lesnar'd" a little bit in the MW division to put it lightly.


I agree for the most part however GSP has a huuuge reach (76") for a 5'10" guy. He almost has the same reach as some of the biggest, tallest LHWs.


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## AceFranklin88 (Apr 21, 2007)

HexRei said:


> Really? Silva would have a huge reach advantage, four inches of height, and a good fifteen-twenty pounds... and it's not like Silva is a slouch in any of the areas GSP is good at except maybe wrestling. I dunno. Maybe some times, but most times?


Yea I was thinking the same thing. I don't think GSP would beat Silva most times at all. Hell, I'd say Anderson takes it 9 times outta 10.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

kc1983 said:


> There are some BIG dudes in the MW divison!
> He would have a lot of trouble with guys like Franklin (assuming he comes back to 185), Okami, Silva and oh yeah supposedly Reljic is gonna be at 185 now? Wow. I know we haven't seen him in action at that weight class yet, but to add to my point, the guy is huge.


Yes but if you compare most of the MWs to GSP, you'll see that GSP tops almost all of them with athleticism, execution, and tools. GSP is the total package and he would pose a huge problem to almost all of the MWs.


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## Superman55 (May 3, 2007)

Xerxes said:


> I agree for the most part however GSP has a huuuge reach (76") for a 5'10" guy. He almost has the same reach as some of the biggest, tallest LHWs.


Thats a really good point. I had no idea he had that large of a reach.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

HexRei said:


> Really? Silva would have a huge reach advantage...


GSP's reach = 76"
Silvas's = 77"

That's only half an inch on each arm. You're right for the height and weight though.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Xerxes said:


> GSP's reach = 76"
> Silvas's = 77"
> 
> That's only half an inch on each arm. You're right for the height and weight though.


Not sure where you're getting that number. GSP has traditionally had a reach of 74" according to the tale of the tape. There may be some times when the UFC got it wrong but for example I just rewatched UFC 56 and 74 and he was reported at 74" inch reach for each of those events. His arms do not look 76" long to me.

edit: ok, I knew that measurements in the UFC were getting ridiculous (does the state commission measure reach or do UFC officials?!?) but this is terrible. I just rewatched UFC 58, vs Penn, where he apparently grew his reach by two inches since he is listed at 76". Then I rewatched 65, vs Hughes, and GSP is listed at 78"!

It seems to me that the UFC expands his reach according to his opponent. I still go with 74".


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## sprawlbrawl (Apr 28, 2008)

Royce said:


> i agree with the OP.
> GSP is very talented..but his raw power isnt enough for MW.even in WW he doesnt seem to be have KO power in his hands.and his frame and reach isnt ideal for MW either.


its not his power its how he transitions from stand up to wrestling ,and wrestling technique and also power.ALL IN GSP


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Who do you guys think would have the speed advantage in this fight?


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

HexRei said:


> Not sure where you're getting that number. GSP has traditionally had a reach of 74" according to the tale of the tape. There may be some times when the UFC got it wrong but for example I just rewatched UFC 56 and 74 and he was reported at 74" inch reach for each of those events. His arms do not look 76" long to me.


The tale of the tape's reach varies a lot from fight to fight, I've seen GSP with 74" a few times and 78" a couple of times. I've been following GSP close as he's my favourite fighter and most of the time, the TOT will say 76" for GSP. So I'm assuming he's around 76". That's amazing for a guy of his height but I guess he's got long arm and very broad shoulders. 

A. Silva is 3.5" taller and has much longer arms, however I find him narrower than GSP (my opinion). That's why he only has a small reach advantage over him. 
I've seen Silva with 77" or 77.5" sometimes. In his Leben fight TOT said 75.5" but that was his first fight in the UFC so they probably had this wrong. I'm assuming his around 77". 

Conclusion: A. Silva will have 0.5" or at most 1" reach advantage on each arm, which can't be considered as "huge". 

Here is an interesting image somebody posted before, you can see how much the reach varies from fight to fight:


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

2nd image:


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Poor Serra sporting a 68 versus a 76.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Yeah, I edited my post already after watching two others. I still go with 74"- no way does he have a longer reach than silva, or even a half inch on each side. 75" tops. 

Wishful thinking, fudging numbers, and plain old mistakes on the part of the UFC and nothing more, imho... just like Big Nog and Mir are only 6'1" according to their website and Randy COuture was only 1" shorter than Lesnar... and an inch taller than Mir and Nog!! (lol)

They just have too many cooks in the kitchen with measurements or something.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Yeah just read your edit. 

I've never said GSP has a longer reach than Silva, my only point was Silva has not a huge reach advantage over GSP like a few people were saying here. 
Silva will imo have at most a 1" reach advantage on each arm (77" vs. 75"). I don't give GSP less than 75/76" of reach. 

They should measure reach more precisely, their TOTs are getting ridiculous.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

I could go with 75" maybe 76 on a good day, he does have broader shoulders proportionally than silva, although he is still shorter by quite a bit...


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

It would be a testament to GSP's humility and determination if he were willing to move up to MW and run the risk of getting beaten badly. However, I like him as a welterweight. A dominating welterweight. A jacked, broad-shouldered, six-pack-having, pectorally gifted welterweight with dreamy blue eyes and a sexy accent uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

I don't know if he'd overpower guys the same way. He'd need to win fights without relying on his strength as much.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

It would definately be a challenge for him, and there are so many fights there that would be awesome to see. I think my favourite would be Marquardt vs GSP. That match could go either way, and both guys have very similar styles.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

You guys are taking this reach thing way too seriously. The reach is your wingspan split up between arm length AND back and shoulders. It wouldn't be that hard to have fluctuations, both in measurement accuracy and the actual measurements from day to day.

Someone could come in on a few weeks notice and be dehydrated as hell and have a 74" reach, and then the following year have a fight where he trained his ass off and had a better cut and was able to retain more water, and his reach go up an inch or two. 1" of reach is usually only a 1/2" per side. That's not hard to gain or lose within a few months. 

Reach is a really overrated stat.

A 74" reach guy could still possibly be giving up arm length to a guy with a 72" reach.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> You guys are taking this reach thing way too seriously. The reach is your wingspan split up between arm length AND back and shoulders. It wouldn't be that hard to have fluctuations, both in measurement accuracy and the actual measurements from day to day.
> 
> Someone could come in on a few weeks notice and be dehydrated as hell and have a 74" reach, and then the following year have a fight where he trained his ass off and had a better cut and was able to retain more water, and his reach go up an inch or two. 1" of reach is usually only a 1/2" per side. That's not hard to gain or lose within a few months.
> 
> *Reach is a really overrated stat*.


Misunderstood and over-analysed maybe, but not overrated in the slightest


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

The Lone Wolf said:


> Misunderstood and over-analysed maybe, but not overrated in the slightest


Meh..


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> You guys are taking this reach thing way too seriously** The reach is your wingspan split up between arm length AND back and shoulders** It wouldn't be that hard to have fluctuations, both in measurement accuracy and the actual measurements from day to day**
> 
> Someone could come in on a few weeks notice and be dehydrated as hell and have a 74" reach, and then the following year have a fight where he trained his ass off and had a better cut and was able to retain more water, and his reach go up an inch or two** 1" of reach is usually only a 1/2" per side** That's not hard to gain or lose within a few months**


The shoulder joints shouldn't really have that much expansion or contraction as far as I know, I could see a half inch on either side like you said, but not much more for a normal person unless we're talking about decades of aging or something**

Still you have to admit, 74" to 78" in like a year is probably poor measurement more than anything**


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

GSP could stay at 170 and still be an elite MW fighter**


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