# **OFFICIAL** Carlos Condit vs Nick Diaz Fight Discussion Thread



## dudeabides




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## El Bresko

Tough fight to call but i've gotta go with Nick.


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## Ddog0587

Im going with Nick. HE will outbox condit for 2-3 rounds, Condit will get frustrated andtry to take it to the ground and get subbed in the 4th.


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## DragonStriker

Diaz by stockton slap.


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## LL

Fight is 50/50.

Diaz is incredibly tough, can take a hell of a shot but the reality is he's no different than you or I, he's a mortal human being and a human can only take so much and one day someone who is just as tough as him is gonna stand there and they won't get rattled when he drops his hands and Condit is one of those guys, when Diaz drops his hands, he faces a front kick or a flying knee and Condit can hit hard, as hard as Daley? Maybe not but I'm sure the gap in power isn't as big as some would think.

On the other hand Carlos needs to keep himself away from the cage, that's just asking for trouble against Nick, I'm a firm believer in the body shot being the most under-utilized tool in MMA and Nick and Nate both use it to perfection. They take so much out of you and they leave you ripe for the picking.

Diaz doesn't check kicks and Condit's a pretty versatile striking, Diaz has the advantage on the ground, Condit has very little wrestling but I don't see him using it, unless he gets really, really hurt and Diaz has great boxing but I don't think it's powerful enough to severely hurt a guy like Condit who is lanky and long.

Fight is near impossible to pick, we're just gonna have to wait and see how it plays out, Condit might drop him and blow his load out going for the kill or he may fight calculated and pick Diaz apart or he could open up a cut and win by stoppage.


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## Rygu

Rooting for Condit without a doubt, but Diaz will beat him.


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## mmaswe82

I say it's 50/50 now matter how you twist it. I'm pretty sure it's gonna be a standup war. I can't say who I think will win, it's too close but I voted Condit because he's a fav of mine and Diaz is...lets just say annoying.


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## cdtcpl

I voted Condit but like almost everyone else I see this fight as 50/50. Both fighters have looked very human in their last fights, both fighters have heart and will to go lifetimes, both fighters have more finishes than most of their opponents records, and both fighters don't know what cruise control is. 

We seriously have a FOTY candidate in this fight.


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## funkasaurus

Can't remember the last time I was this excited for a fight. Wait, I do, Diaz Vs Penn, Diaz Vs Daley & Diaz Vs Santos


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## Leakler

This is going to be a amazing fight! Fight of the year candidate in my opinion. Going with Diaz, but it's very close.


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## BrianRClover

I'm with pretty much everyone else as far as seeing this sight nearly down the middle. However I'm probably one of the very few that sees it slightly favoring Diaz. I think Diaz his entire career has had trouble with people who truly move faster than he does... Condit, does without question.


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## funkasaurus

I haven't seen to much of Condit, but how is his cardio? I know Diaz won't get gassed before it ends. He'll get tired but he can throw punches start to finish. Can Condit keep up with that? I can't see Condit KOing Diaz. I think if Diaz took the best of Paul Daley's punches, then Condit will be looking for the decision.


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## slapshot

funkasaurus said:


> I haven't seen to much of Condit, but how is his cardio? I know Diaz won't get gassed before it ends. He'll get tired but he can throw punches start to finish. Can Condit keep up with that? I can't see Condit KOing Diaz. I think if Diaz took the best of Paul Daley's punches, then Condit will be looking for the decision.


Condit has very good cardio but that wont mean anything if he gets hit with solid body shots.

When I hear ppl talk about tool bags what is often left out is how well they can use the tools, I may have a hammer but if I cant deliver it for all practical purposes its not there.

This would not be the case with Carlos, even though Nick is better at what he dose this is a close fight skill wise, I think Nick can win because I think he can get to Carlos and tap his chin.

I think the fight could be a blowout one way or the other but I'm not going to be shocked if we see a decision either. That's because the fight could go so many ways.


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## Hammerlock2.0

Normally when I say a fight could go either way I still have a favorite or a gut feeling. This time, no freaking idea. Nick might Stockton slap Condit around or Condit might just flat out knock Nick senseless. Either way the winner will beat GSP.


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## rebonecrusher

I am 50/50 with this fight the only thing that I'm certain of is its going to be awesome. My prediction is that Condit puts it on Diaz in the first two rounds which will be non stop action. The third is hard fought Diaz starts to build momentum. The forth Diaz takes control and Condit begins to slow down. The 5th Diaz is all over Condit beats him to the ground and finishes him by TKO or submission. 

I think wanting to see Diaz vs St Pierre so badly and being a huge Diaz fan might influence me to go a little bit towards him. I wouldn't be surprised at any outcome for this fight both fighters have so many ways to win.


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## Rauno

funkasaurus said:


> Can't remember the last time I was this excited for a fight. Wait, I do, Diaz Vs Penn, Diaz Vs Daley & Diaz Vs Santos


Hmm.. i see some pattern there.. :confused02::confused02:

Diaz all the way boys and girls.


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## Shoegazer

Diaz keeps Condit at a distance and batters him mercilessly. Condit is very tough and very game. He lands plenty of his own, but is stopped by the body blows and pace the 3rd or 4th.


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## pipe

I could see Condit winning this with a Tko, Diaz got dropped by Daley and Zamorskis(sp) and Condit has KO power.


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## SM33

Condit won't have time to set up many KO attempts, and he can't bob 'n' weave with Diaz, so on the feet I think he is in trouble. A leg kick strategy will just get him punched a lot, he'll slow down before the kicks take effect. A point/grappling strategy will serve Nick better again due to fitness and pace, and being more skilled.

Condit will be competetive, but I think Nick will be too much for him.


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## TanyaJade

I see Diaz taking a close UD win by using body shots and a ridiculous pace.

Condit does have a chance though. The gameplan Cyborg was using against Diaz was working very well until he shot for a takedown gassed, Condit probably recognizes that. Also should Condit land that big shot on Diaz, he won't stop. He'll go for the throat until Diaz is finished, though it's an extremely small chance.


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## box

I could see Condit landing a shot that drops Diaz, then it all depends on the ref letting Diaz recover or not. If that doesn't happen, I can't see Condit out working Diaz in any place.


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## Warning

Condit wins by submission due to strikes. 1st round


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## dlxrevolution

They're definitely evenly matched. But the thing is, if this fight goes all five rounds, and it's a close fight, I think the judges are automatically going to sway towards Nick because the match-up between him and GSP is definitely going to make a bigger profit than Condit vs GSP.

As far as who's the better fighter is and who would give GSP more of a run, it's very difficult to choose one over the other. Both are hard as hell to finish, both have excellent chins, both ALWAYS show up to fight, Carlos has the edge in punching power IMO, and Diaz has the edge in cardio. But the gap isn't very large. 

I'm going with Diaz, because I think the Judges will probably be on his side if the fight goes 5 rounds.


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## Rauno

Warning said:


> Condit wins by submission due to strikes. 1st round


You are an MMA GOD when this should happen.


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## kenaroo

I'd like to see Condit win

but gut feeling is Diaz 3rd round submission (RNC)

Both guys had bad luck with judges.. if it goes all 5..I'd think Condit wins by split.


My wish would be late 1st round stoppage via ground and pound finish by a sub..... winner Condit.. but I give that a 10% chance

No matter... still want to see Diaz vs. GSP this year.


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## ProdigyPenn

Since the announcement of this fight, I know it is going to be quite a even match up but I am siding toward Daiz after his victory over BJ Penn. 

But as this fight edge closer, I think Condit might have the Knock Daiz out. Daiz standing is good, but Condit is one nasty puncher himself.


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## mastodon2222

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Normally when I say a fight could go either way I still have a favorite or a gut feeling. This time, no freaking idea. Nick might Stockton slap Condit around or Condit might just flat out knock Nick senseless. Either way the winner will beat GSP.


I'll take you up on that - GSP will out-athlete either of them unless his knee is permanently jacked up.


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## OHKO

Have a feeling that Condit will rock Diaz in the first round, and the referee will jump in to stop the fight before Diaz has any chance to recover.

Hmm.


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## pipe

OHKO said:


> Have a feeling that Condit will rock Diaz in the first round, and the referee will jump in to stop the fight before Diaz has any chance to recover.
> 
> Hmm.


This would most likely cause an in ring fracas.

I could see this being finished with a cut stopage though.


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## Vale_Tudo

I dont think Condit will play Diaz' game and make this a trade'n,pray type of fight. He will cut corners, make Nick chase him and eventually land a shot that will rock Diaz and get a TKO


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## limba

Carlos - by "natural born killer-KO"


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## The Horticulturist

This fight might even be more fun than Shogun vs Hendo.


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## malice

War Condit!


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## cookiefritas

I have a feeling that Condit realizes Diaz has a granite chin and world class cardio, so he won't engage in a slug fest. He will probably try to slip Diaz's lead jab that he always comes in with and brutalize diaz's lead leg from the get go and work from there. Keep moving and make Diaz eat a leg kick every time he tries to get in punching range.

I think Diaz has better hands, better chin, and better head movement, so he would wreck Condit if most of the fight happens within boxing range.


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## Guy Incognito

People are really blowing Condits power up like he is at Daleys level.

Same thing that happened with the BJ fight


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## Mckeever

Guy Incognito said:


> People are really blowing Condits power up like he is at Daleys level.
> 
> Same thing that happened with the BJ fight


Thought the same thing. People are way over rating Condit's knock out power here. I remember when people were actually shocked that Condit knocked out Dan Hardy.

"Huh, Condit doesn't have KO power, how did he knock out Hardy?"

Now he's being hyped up as a one shot KO artist. 

It's nearly as bad as when people hyped up Dan Hardy to be a knock out striker.


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## Rauno

Condit is a very techincal striker so he'll always pose a threat to you. That said, Diaz took a Daley left hook, went down and recovered almost instantly.


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## box

Here we go ladies, we should be in for a treat.


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## Rygu

I'm glad Condit is the underdog...usually that's Nick's role. Please win Condit, pleaseeee.


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## Canadian Psycho

War Diaz!


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## Andrus

And it's time! Fight of the night.


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## Roflcopter

Think Nick beats him up.


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## AmEagle

This is going to be a crazy war.


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## Elitemajik

Condit's walkout song is good


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## Shoegazer

So geeked right now it's crazy...


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## Toxic

Have yet to make a call and still can't pick a winner here. 

Not even sure who to cheer for, would love to see Condit smash Diaz but then I don't get to see GSP do it.


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## edlavis88

Love fights Luke this, no idea how it goes! Condit has crazy kicks and flying knees, Diaz has the best hands at WW if not in MMA


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## Rygu

All I can say is Condit's cardio better be at a 5 round level at least. Nick will pressure him all round, every round so I hope he's ready for it. WAR CONDIT BITCHES!!!!


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## rallyman

man im pumped for this fight


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## UKMMAGURU

Old Mexico vs Old Mexico


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## Walker

I'm going with Carlos in this one. :thumbsup:


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## LL

Hope Diaz ends up sleeping on the mat but I have to give him props for the Deftones.


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## Spec0688

I didn't care much for Diaz 1 year ago, now I'm rooting for him, he has become one of my favourite fighters for some reason.


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## Rauno

Nick entering with Feiticiera again. FFF yeah!


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## Rusty

Please win Carlos. I know you can do it:hug:


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## DrFunk

Cannot go wrong with the results of this fight. If Condit wins I get to see Diaz get smashed. If Diaz wins I'll get to see him get smashed by GSP. All I hope for is a real war and not a flash ko!


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## OHKO

Cecil Peoples!


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## Spec0688

Fireworks

countdown....


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## Toxic

One thing I would like to note is that I think Cowboy/Nate was good for Condit in that Jackson's got to see first hand what the kind of pressure Nick will bring is really like.


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## Walker

So weird a WW title is happening with GSP- but this should be a great fight.:thumb02:


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## Spec0688

I hate all these accolades that don't mean anything, it just prolongs the wait till the fight. Why do I want to hear "former WEC champion" and all that....


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## AmEagle

I'll predict Condit catches him and finishes. Knee or kick.


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## Toxic

Condit is seems is gonna work that leg and try to take away some of Nicks mobility.


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## edlavis88

Hmm so much octagon control from Diaz but Condit doing more, gotta go 10-9 Condit


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## fightfan76

close round, Diaz may have won due to octagon control.....


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## Soakked

Condit round one.


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## Sousa

Come the **** on Condit. He looks a tad shaky but I think he took that round


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## Walker

Tough round to call- Diaz probably but super close.


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## BWoods

It's looking like it's going to shape up like a normal DIaz fight. He's just going to keep pressing and eventually Condit will mentally break. He has this amazing ability to just force guys to fight badly and just walk them down.

The thing to really pay attention to is that Carlos is an emotional fighter. That may work against him.


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## box

This fight is already so damn good. All the other fights I would browse here during it, this one I can't even break my vision with it. Round 1 Diaz.


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## AmdM

Please someone hold me, i'm shaking like a puppy on ice water. HELP!!!


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## hadoq

bout time they put two fighters in there (at the exception of the co main event)


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## Rygu

Good movement by Condit, which he needs the whole fight. Soon as Nick backs him into the cage, shit will hit the fan. He needs to Frankie Edgar all fight.


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## Spec0688

I don't know who won that round.

Octagon control by Diaz, making it look like Condit is running away, while Condit has more leg kicks.


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## Terror Kovenant

Rd1 - Condit


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## Toxic

I think that Diaz controlling the octagon is gonna squeak him out the round.


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## Spec0688

Condit seems to run away too fast, could definitely hurt him with the judges.


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## fightfan76

This is a good ass fight as I expected.....


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## Andrus

Great action! Carlos needs to take those legs out!


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## edlavis88

Diaz is an arsehole but can't deny he is pretty funny as well


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## DrFunk

Condit wins if he keeps moving and gregjacksoning Diaz, if he gets the trash talk into his head and starts brawling he'll lose. So far so good for Condit, excellent lateral movements.


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## 2zwudz

edlavis88 said:


> Diaz is an arsehole but can't deny he is pretty funny as well


 What is Diaz doing?


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## Spec0688

Round 1 = either way
Round 2 = Diaz


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## Hellboy

Condit won that round but I didn't like what I was seeing.k Nick is going to grind him.


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## Sousa

Doesn't seem like Condit will win this fight sadly. I picked him to win but Its not looking likely


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## Rauno

Diaz is starting to bother Carlos.


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## SerJ

DrFunk said:


> Condit wins if he keeps moving and gregjacksoning Diaz, if he gets the trash talk into his head and starts brawling he'll lose. So far so good for Condit, excellent lateral movements.


Well said. I agree completely.


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## box

I have it 2 rounds for Diaz, octagon control and better strikes, Carlos is running for the most part.


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## Canadian Psycho

Diaz has taken the first two rounds. I promise you. 

Carlos is bothered. You can see it.


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## Andrus

GSP just told his assistant "Okay, call the bitches, this one will be 5 rounds, I will be late."


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## Rygu

Nick is getting frustrated, and even being more of a douche than usual. Condit needs to not be so hesitant, throw some crazy knees ffs.


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## OHKO

Diaz is gonna take the next 3 rounds.


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## DrFunk

2zwudz said:


> What is Diaz doing?


Diaz is losing on the technical striking so he's trying to goad Condit with taunting him and it worked a few times so far. Dropping his hands and trash talking is also a strategy for him though risky.


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## Terror Kovenant

Two rounds for Condit. Landing more strikes, landing good kicks, moving well, escaping, not letting Diaz bother him


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## BWoods

I got both rounds for Diaz. The exchanges has been pretty even, but Condit is moving backwards.


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## fightfan76

Round 2 close too.....


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## edlavis88

2zwudz said:


> What is Diaz doing?



Talking Shit non stop, crossing his arms etc, a bit like What Anderson did to Maia


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## jonnyg4508

How anyone scores anything for Carlos I have no clue.

How do you win rounds throwing weak kicks while running away the whole time?


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## Toxic

Condit is working really well if he can stick to the gameplan. Those leg kicks are landing and I wish Condit would throw more and step into them more.

Condit needs to be concerned that Cecil "leg kicks don't win fights" Peoples is judging this one.


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## 2zwudz

DrFunk said:


> Diaz is losing on the technical striking so he's trying to goad Condit with taunting him and it worked a few times so far. Dropping his hands and trash talking is also a strategy for him though risky.


 Thanks Bro!


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## John8204

I'm convinced this is all a trap to get a fighter to punch Steve in the face.


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## Walker

Condit is starting to slightly take control but in the first 2 rounds it hard to see how the judges scored it. They might give it to Diaz.


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## DrFunk

Man I'm so impressed with the adjustment Greg Jackson did after he saw Cowboy lose to Diaz.


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## Terror Kovenant

Does Nick not feel leg kicks?


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## edlavis88

29-28 Condit through 3 for me, very close though


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## 2zwudz

Is Condit running...thats not his style??


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## Spec0688

round 1 = Diaz
Round 2 = Diaz
round 3 = Condit


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## hadoq

what a WAR !!!! one of the best fights I've seen EVER

diaz is a terminator


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## Rygu

I'm starting to like what im seeing...Condit took round 3 for sure.

The legkicks are starting to take effect me thinks.


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## Andrus

Carlos' round. YES.


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## Rauno

This thing is super close. Nick needs to pick up the pace if he wants to win this.


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## DrFunk

Terror Kovenant said:


> Does Nick not feel leg kicks?


He'll feel them by R4~R5


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## BigPont

Condit just looks like he's running around too much.


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## rallyman

man close fight but have condit 2/1


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## khoveraki

Two rounds to one EASY, possibly three to zero for Condit. Diaz is landing like 2-3 significant strikes per round, Condit landing plenty.

Diaz being the "aggressor" Leonard Garcia style though.


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## SerJ

I think Condit took the third. Only clear round for me. The first two I don't know who took those.


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## Rusty

Great fight. Haven't been this nervous since Lesnar and Overeem. Keep it coming Carlos.


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## DrFunk

2zwudz said:


> Is Condit running...thats not his style??


It's working!


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## LL

No ******* clue how to score this one.


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## fightfan76

Close fight but Condit is not allowing Diaz to get into any rhythm but he does have the octagon control.....


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## Terror Kovenant

Three rounds straight for Condit. Got this one in the bag if he keeps it up


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## jonnyg4508

Condit is fighting smart because winning on leg kicks is his only shot. But he is fighting like a bitch.

Talk about trying to out pt him on shots that are even doing anhything.


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## Soakked

Carlos is out working Diaz and his footwork and MT is giving Diaz trouble. 2-1 Carlos


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## Blitzz

Greg Jackson is yelling at Condit now. Awesome stuff shall ensue.


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## box

jonnyg4508 said:


> How anyone scores anything for Carlos I have no clue.
> 
> How do you win rounds throwing weak kicks while running away the whole time?


It's called blind hate for Diaz. Anyone with sense scored the first 2 for Diaz, 3rd for Condit most likely.


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## Woodenhead

I have no idea what the judges would be thinking.

Personally, I have Condit landing more clean strikes & winning thus far. I'm surprised, but it's a well executed gameplan by him thus far, IMO.


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## godm0de

rd1 for diaz
2-3 for condit thus far great gight


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## beardsleybob

Toxic said:


> Condit is working really well if he can stick to the gameplan. Those leg kicks are landing and I wish Condit would throw more and step into them more.
> 
> Condit needs to be concerned that Cecil "leg kicks don't win fights" Peoples is judging this one.


Diaz is throwing even weaker kicks, no idea why. I'd like them both to turn the hips a bit more


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## Toxic

Diaz
Condit?
Condit.


Condit is getting stronger as the fight goes on, Diaz is slowing down his volume and I think its actually Diaz that is getting frustrated.


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## suniis

Carlos is coming back, this is getting really interesting...


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## Terror Kovenant

Dont see how anyone has scored a round for Diaz. Hes landed maybe 3 to 5 significant strikes per round, while Condit has landed more strikes each round and kicked him over and over.


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## DrFunk

Lol Diaz getting desperate trying to TD


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## Toxic

I think Condit should be trying to take Diaz down in the final seconds of the rounds to steal them away.


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## khoveraki

Diaz' legs are killing him, fact.


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## Walker

khoveraki said:


> Two rounds to one EASY, possibly three to zero for Condit. Diaz is landing like 2-3 significant strikes per round, Condit landing plenty.
> 
> Diaz being the "aggressor" Leonard Garcia style though.


That's the problem- I doubt the judges gave Carlos the first two rounds despite the results. They could score those rounds for just the infamous "octagon control".

MMA judges can screw up any scoring.


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## TanyaJade

The Diaz fanboys crying "HATE" need to get bent.

I scored the 1st & 3rd for Condit, second for Diaz.


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## jonnyg4508

Toxic said:


> I think Condit should be trying to take Diaz down in the final seconds of the rounds to steal them away.


Would go hand in hand with the bitchy way he is fighting. He isn't trying to end anything. Natural Born Killer my ass.


----------



## NoYards

Ring control is suppose to lead to something .. so far Diaz is walking forward and getting kicked and hit.

Condit all the way on this one so far.


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## Rygu

**** this is sweet, Nick has no rhythm at all right now.


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## edlavis88

39-37 Condit... Diaz needs a finish or at least a 10-8 here imo


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## IcemanJacques

Giving 1 and 2 to Diaz and 3 and 4 to Condit. Carlos is fighting the perfect fight.


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## rallyman

carlos all the way round 4


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## Canadian Psycho

I'm thinking 2-2. Carlos has definitely taken the last two rounds. I suspect the winner of the next round takes the fight. 

Carlos is running, yes, but he's also landing. Excellent game plan.


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## DrFunk

Haha Diaz doing everything in his dbag repertoire to try to get Condit off his game cause he knows he's getting spanked.


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## Andrus

Another one for Condit...


----------



## Gyser

Wouldn't be surprised if this is 2-2 going into the 5th.


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## hadoq

go carlos !

but I feel diaz can KO carlos at any given moment


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## Rauno

Nick is losing this. Condit doing is a nice job avoiding and getting away from Nick.


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## Walker

I'll be super curious how the first 2 rounds were scored but the 3rd and 4th should be Condit.


We'll see


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## Rusty

jonnyg4508 said:


> Condit is fighting smart because winning on leg kicks is his only shot. But he is fighting like a bitch.
> 
> Talk about trying to out pt him on shots that are even doing anhything.


Shutup


----------



## Woodenhead

What's the commentating like for this one? I've got it on mute while trying to do some work here... (not doing so well with that tho lol)


----------



## OHKO

Not exactly the kind of fight I was expecting...


----------



## SerJ

2-2 maybe??? Not sure about the first two, but the last two Condit took them in my eyes. I'm surprised those leg kicks have not slowed Diaz down.


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## Toxic

I think Condit is winning but I will bet Cecil People's is F***ing this one up and will score it for Nick.


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## Terror Kovenant

Four rounds for Carlos Condit. Landing more strikes, better strikes, kicks, varying his attack. Diaz is just wading forward and getting hit and only getting off a few per round. No way Diaz has won a round, only by blind love do people think so


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## fightfan76

Seems as if Diaz cant corner him then he has no other plan. Great gameplan/execution on Condit's part.....


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## box

I got this even going to the 5th, this will be the winning round.


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## BigPont

Pretty shit fight overall if you ask me. A few solid shots for Condit, but he looks like he's just trying to win on points which I hate. Diaz should've had a better game plan as well.


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## Spec0688

Guarantee you that Diaz wins 1,2 and 5.... Condit is running away WAAAY too much.


----------



## edlavis88

Can't deny Diaz has a chin!


----------



## Shoegazer

Condit has won this via gameplan. Good for him!


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## suniis

Toxic said:


> I think Condit is winning but I will bet Cecil People's is F***ing this one up and will score it for Nick.


exactly what I'm thinking...


----------



## Toroian

some one came to run not fight.


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## TanyaJade

People tend to forget that this is a sport, not a fight. It doesn't matter how you win, it's IF you win. You do what it takes to win, end of story.


----------



## Gyser

Condits gameplan has taken away from the spectacle but seems it may well win him the fight, so smart from him.


----------



## Rygu

Spec0688 said:


> Guarantee you that Diaz wins 1,2 and 5.... Condit is running away WAAAY too much.


He's using angles, and landing way more strikes. Nick isn't doing shit. Glad you aren't a judge.


----------



## khoveraki

Diaz breathing out of his mouth and throwing weak karate kicks and trying for takedowns is HILARIOUSLY AWESOME.


Condit is a monster.


----------



## box

This could seal the deal for Nick. 5th for Nick, 1, 2, 5, to Nick Imo. If you got back to the 1st round, Condit did nothing, it was all Nick.


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## rallyman

carlos in trouble


----------



## Canadian Psycho

I think Carlos has it.


----------



## Bonnar426

If Machida was fighting the way Condit is they would say he wasn't running away just being elusive.


----------



## Rygu

Condit better get this ******* decision or i'm going to snap.


----------



## AmdM

48-47 Diaz please


----------



## hadoq

possible fight of the year right there

fight of the night for sure


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## Rauno

DAMM, too late in the round it hit the ground.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

R1- Condit
R2- Condit
R3- Condit
R4- Condit
R5- Diaz


----------



## Spec0688

Diaz 3 rounds
Condit 2 rounds

At leasts thats how I see it.


----------



## Walker

Regardless how anyone scores this with that takedown it will be scored for Diaz. :thumbsdown:


----------



## Toxic

Is it bad I want Condit to get robbed just because I didn't get to see Diaz get smashed and I know GSP would get it done?


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## edlavis88

48-47 Condit, razor thin though


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## LL

Omg omg omg omg!!!!


----------



## Andrus

YES! CARLOS! I think that takedown might've stolen the round.


----------



## Jumanji

48-47 Diaz IMO.


----------



## Blitzz

49-46 Condit.


----------



## BWoods

Diaz
Diaz
Condit
Condit
Diaz

At least that's how I saw it. Running away while throwing leg kicks doesn't impress me.


----------



## BigPont

Really could go either way. No one can be mad about the decision cause no one did enough to win.


----------



## JustLo

Joe was so ******* annoying this fight. With the volume on it was a blowout for Condit.

Without it's a toss up.


----------



## Roflcopter

48-47 Diaz


----------



## Sousa

I don't even ******* know who won this probably Diaz just based on being aggressive since thats normally how it goes. Aggressive and or take downs> anything else. We'll see


----------



## Soakked

Well done by Condit, he got the UD without a doubt. Great stick and move footwork, mixing strikes. Good MT usually trumps good boxing because of range and varied attacks.


----------



## Walker

hadoq said:


> possible fight of the year right there
> 
> fight of the night for sure


I surely hope not- not even close for best fight honors.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

1 and 2 for Diaz.

2 and 3 for Condit.

5 for...???


----------



## DrFunk

Condit better win this, Nick had no answer for him past R3.


----------



## Rygu

Is Nick crying to Lorenzo?


----------



## khoveraki

If this isn't a clear cut for Condit, I'm going to punish the judges with leg kicks.


----------



## SerJ

OHKO said:


> Not exactly the kind of fight I was expecting...


I expected more action, but Condit had a gameplan and executed. This the world of MMA where one mistake can cost you the win. A gameplan is more important than ever.


----------



## Toxic

I got it 48-47 Condit.


----------



## Rusty

Diaz fans are gonna be pissed!


----------



## Rygu

YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!

So happy right now.


----------



## LL

Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## suniis

Holy Shit!!!


----------



## Sousa

YES! Finally proper scoring!! EAT IT DICK DIAZ!


----------



## Woodenhead

*yessssssssss*


----------



## beardsleybob

49-46 twice

Condit nearly burst into tears when he heard he'd won


----------



## rallyman

hell yeah!!!


----------



## Spec0688

Can't believe it was so one sided, guess running away and throwing baby kicks gets you points.


----------



## edlavis88

Fair play, think 49-46 is harsh but hey ho


----------



## Terror Kovenant

PROPER SCORING!!! YES!!! CONDIT ALL THE WAY!!! Diaz had no way of winning that fight


----------



## Toxic

Even Cecil People's didn't mess it up. So proud of him.


----------



## Rygu

Spec0688 said:


> Can't believe it was so one sided, guess running away and throwing baby kicks gets you points.


Condit landed way more strikes, and lots of hard legkicks. What fight were you watching?


----------



## Woodenhead

I can't believe the judges got it right. Kudos.


----------



## Life B Ez

Carlos "attempted assault" Condit came to point fight.


----------



## Spec0688

rygu said:


> Condit landed way more strikes, and lots of hard legkicks. what fight were you watching?


Really? Round 1 and 2 were full of hard kicks and combos? what were you watching.


----------



## Jumanji

GSP is going to hump the crap out of Condit that is a fact.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Spec0688 said:


> Can't believe it was so one sided, guess running away and throwing baby kicks gets you points.


Take off your blind Diaz-goggles. Condit landed way more strikes all round, every round and frustrated Diaz. Nick just couldn't do anything to get going. Condit clear winner.


----------



## khoveraki

Condit giving his natural born killer look, totally composed and full of energy at the start of round five, staring across the cage at a swollen face, bleeding, breathing through his mouth...


Diaz thinks he won? ******* idiot.


YES. Diaz retiring!


Making all these excuses with his face beat up when Condit is untouched, did more damage my ass.


----------



## Walker

WOW- I thought Diaz would win via how the judges have been scoring fights but I thought Condit fought a great fight.

Either way- if GSP can come back from the injury both these guys have no shot against him at 100%.


----------



## Rygu

Nick you're really a classless POS. 

Enjoy the L beside your name. 

Buh-bye.


----------



## Toxic

The crowd is pissing me off, Shut the **** up and let the man enjoy his moment.


----------



## Gyser

Don't agree with the outcome but I don't think it's that contentious, I had it 3-2 Diaz, Condit was running way too much in the first two and only got going in the 3rd as Rogan just said, took. 3,4 but Diaz had 5.

Diaz giving MMA up again, haaa.


----------



## LL

Oh **** off Diaz.

Honestly, this guy just can't accept a loss, **** him.


----------



## beardsleybob

Diaz said he's done with MMA

Sour grapes there. Thinks he was robbed. This isn't a street fight


----------



## Prolific

Honestly not impressed with either one in this fight, If either of them came in and fought gsp like that, it would be a loss for either of them.


----------



## TanyaJade

YES!

**** Diaz, his fanboys, and Stockton!


----------



## Woodenhead

Diaz the rabbit puncher loses to baby kicks - very fitting.


Nick's face is messed up lol

[Edit] What a baby meathead whiner in the interview LOLOL


----------



## AmEagle

Diaz is a prick. Wish Condit would of put him out.


----------



## edlavis88

I'm pleased as this obviously means the world to Condit, Nice and classy from Diaz!!


----------



## rallyman

lol nick glad you lost after that crap


----------



## suniis

Oh I want to see the post fight presser!!


----------



## NoYards

Diaz you ******* loser ... who's 'running away" now?


----------



## Guy Incognito

Diaz 3-2


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Nick is completely classless, a joke of a human being, a complete idiot, and a dick. **** him, he can **** off out of the sport forever.


----------



## Toxic

And that is why I hate Nick Diaz more than anybody in MMA.


----------



## Andrus

Wow. Didn't see the retiring coming :O


----------



## Elitemajik

Nick your face proves that condit hit you a lot and didnt just run from you


----------



## rallyman

suniis said:


> Oh I want to see the post fight presser!!


not like hes going to show up


----------



## Walker

Is anyone really surprised Diaz pulled that crap after the fight? It's standard Diaz.


----------



## Jumanji

Nick is right he was running from him the whole fight. But either way Carlos was landing more shots. Nick should go to boxing.


----------



## aerius

Waaaahhhhh!!!!! 
Oh, by the way, don't let the door hit you on the way out.


----------



## Rygu

MMA doesn't need you Nick. Go do boxing, it's slowly dying anyways.


----------



## Bonnar426

Diaz wouldn't have shit for GSP anyways. That fight would have ended up looking like GSP vs. Koscheck 1.


----------



## Woodenhead




----------



## Life B Ez

Back pedaling and throwing leg slaps with your foot should not win you a fight. Just because you spin more doesn't win a round. This isn't ******* figure skating.

This was an completely embarrassing performance on both ends.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Walker said:


> Is anyone really surprised Diaz pulled that crap after the fight? It's standard Diaz.


No, I'm just surprised he has fans. Can't believe people actually support such a shitty person


----------



## DrFunk

LOL Talk about SORE LOSER. Guess what, MMA doesn't need you either you fake thug. So running at a fighter and getting hit like a retard is apparently winning the fight while fighting smart and avoiding strikes is not acceptable. Who is ducking GSP now? What a weaksauce behaviour, I hope he does retire so we get rid of his childish antics.


----------



## godm0de

holy shit they got it right!!
Diaz is a bit of a sore loser


----------



## kilik

diaz 3-2

49-46 judges? cmon man 

condit didnt do much the first two rounds except back up. 

what happened to aggresion being judged


----------



## jongurley

I don't like Diaz much at all,, but that was the biggest bullshit decision ever,, he said exactly what I was thinking, he pushed the fight, got the ONLY takedown of the fight, controlled first 3 rounds, and all condit done was dance around and throw baby legkicks.


----------



## LL

MMA will be a lot better without that ******* sore loser.

He was the one shooting for the takedown.


----------



## Rygu

kilik said:


> diaz 3-2
> 
> 49-46 judges? cmon man
> 
> condit didnt do much the first two rounds except back up.
> 
> what happened to aggresion being judged


You have to land strikes as well, though.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Life B Ez said:


> Back pedaling and throwing leg slaps with your foot should not win you a fight. Just because you spin more doesn't win a round. This isn't ******* figure skating.
> 
> This was an completely embarrassing performance on both ends.


Never finding your opponent and only landing 3 good shots a round while getting kicked and punched all the time loses you a fight. Diaz sucked. Don't cry like he did.


----------



## chosenFEW

i had it 3-2 diaz


condit ran wayyyy too much!... definitely not what I heard from him or his coaches during primetime


----------



## Life B Ez

kilik said:


> diaz 3-2
> 
> 49-46 judges? cmon man
> 
> condit didnt do much the first two rounds except back up.
> 
> *what happened to aggresion being judged*


It would mean you could score it for Diaz, so then it doesn't help people's case.


Hey everyone who ever said that Shogun won against Machida the first time should shut up about this fight. Leg kicks don't finish fights...


----------



## hadoq

suniis said:


> Oh I want to see the post fight presser!!


Diaz won't show up

he had class after the fight, up until the interview.

he lost the fight and he lost the match in my book.


Seeing how Condit fought, I really want to see him fight GSP now, he really stepped up his game for Diaz and he'll pose real threats for GSP on the feet at least.

And kos, fitch, have no business hanging out with these guys anymore. Not even sure if GSP could, or probably not for very long anymore.

I wish I could see Thompson vs Diaz.

WW division is stacked with talent!


----------



## YOUgotTKO

*UFC 143 spolier alert "Nick Diaz " No Class!!*

Ok im not shocked about his reactions but come on now a blind man could have seen that fight going to condit, who won this fight I mean wow. But to disrepect a fighter after you fight now I just find that low class!!!


----------



## Guy Incognito

rygu said:


> MMA doesn't need you Nick. *Go do boxing, it's slowly dying anyways*.


No it really isn't. stop following the sheep and repeating something you have an uninformed opinion on.


----------



## kc1983

Way to fucken go Condit! Whats up with Dick Diaz retiring now?! Nobody saw that coming. Oh well...**** him. Never liked the guy. I like how Nick said he had Carlos backin up the whole night and that should justify a victory? I think Nick's battered face told another story.


----------



## Jumanji

Life B Ez said:


> Back pedaling and throwing leg slaps with your foot should not win you a fight. Just because you spin more doesn't win a round. This isn't ******* figure skating.
> 
> This was an completely embarrassing performance on both ends.


I agree with this. I dont think Carlos came to finish tonight, more just to win a decision. And for the record im a fan of neither fighters.


----------



## SideWays222

I scored it 3-2 for Condit. Round 1 being veryy close for Diaz. Rd 2 clearly for Diaz. RD 3 and 4 clearly for Condit. And round 5 slightly for Condit.



Nick Diaz had agression but Condit had Octagon Control. Its Condit that dictated where that fight takes place and not Nick. Nick tried to implement his gameplan while Condit DID implement his gameplan. And Condit won the striking by a good margin in rd 3-5. Condit won the fight. No amount of bitching will change that. And Diaz is a whiney bitch isnt he??


----------



## Life B Ez

Jumanji said:


> I agree with this. I dont think Carlos came to finish tonight, more just to win a decision. And for the record im a fan of neither fighters.


He never came to finish the fight, he came to hear winner by decision.


----------



## box

Ari said:


> YES!
> 
> **** Diaz, his fanboys, and Stockton!


**** you too :hug:

I'm glad i'm not alone seeing Diaz won the first 2. The deciding factor should of been the 5th round. It was close striking between the two, with Condit edging it, then Diaz sealing the fight with the back control and sub attempts.

Also, Diaz should take it like a man, win another fight and be back in the picture, not play the cry baby roll. You can't change the decision after the fact.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Pipe down you goons. Diaz will be back. 

And as a big Diaz brothers fan, you'll get no complaints from me. Carlos may have fought with technicality as opposed to reckless abandonment, but he did so perfectly. It obviously threw Nick right off of his game, and it earned him the belt. Carlos could have risked being TKOed or KOed himself, but he fought a very smart fight, and he looked great doing it. I've wanted to see him face GSP for years now, and so I'm actually quite thrilled at the result. Though still hoping we'll someday get Diaz vs. St. Pierre, as well.

Make no mistake, Diaz isn't done. Just let the kid take some time off.


----------



## Mocacho

I'm not a Diaz fan. The fight was up in the air for me all depending on how the 1st round was judged. But I'm not mad at Nick's reaction. He lost a fight with someone more interested in out pointing than actually scrapping. Diaz pushed forward continuously and if you look at the fight as a whole I would give Diaz the win unquestionably. Condit and GSP will be a fantastic fight between 2 people more interested in not losing rather than winning.


----------



## Bonnar426

If ever their was a more gracious loser then Nick Diaz. Very Inspirational.:sarcastic04:


----------



## AlphaDawg

I don't see how he was disrespectful. He said Condit's a great guy but he's not going to accept that as a loss (I don't really see that as a loss either). 

Sure he retired for like the 3rd time, but that's by no means disrespectful.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Life B Ez said:


> He never came to finish the fight, he came to hear winner by decision.


No, he came in to frustrate Diaz, outstrike him, keep him out of his game, and stifle him. Best way to beat Diaz actually.


----------



## Rygu

*Farewell Nick.*

I'll sure miss your bullshit rants on how everything is unfair all the time.

Go do boxing, they need you more anyways.


----------



## footodors

Nick's got a point. Run Carlos Run!


----------



## Alessia

kilik said:


> what happened to aggresion being judged


Why should aggression that leads to mostly nothing and is nullified by excellent movement be scored any higher? It was negated by Carlos and he out struck Diaz. No way Diaz won that fight.

It's funny, I was actually slowly becoming a fan of Nick leading up to this fight. I almost actually thought he was just misunderstood, but his post fight shit, just showed what kind of person he really is.


----------



## chosenFEW

kc1983 said:


> Way to fucken go Condit! Whats up with Dick Diaz retiring now?! Nobody saw that coming. Oh well...**** him. Never liked the guy. I like how Nick said he had Carlos backin up the whole night and that should justify a victory? I think Nick's battered face told another story.


during the end of the fight nick was backing up trying to lure condit in.... much like how penn was letting kenny florian grab him just so he could get close to him. It did work seeing as he got the takedown in the 5th.... too little too late though according to judges...


----------



## Fieos

I disagree completely. I had it 48/47 for Diaz and was pretty surprised by the decision being so heavily in Carlos' favor. Considering it was for a belt I can understand Diaz frustration and also... that's Nick for you.


----------



## khoveraki

Diaz won that fight about as much as Big Country won JDS vs. Nelson. Nelson was technically walking forward most of that fight, I guess that should count for 90% of scoring?


Forget about landing the most strikes, doing the most damage, implementing your game plan, not taking any damage...


----------



## IcemanJacques

Congratulations to Carlos. Fought very smart. Not what I was expecting but well done to him.


----------



## Woodenhead

SideWays222 said:


> Nick Diaz had agression but Condit had Octagon Control. *Its Condit that dictated where that fight takes place and not Nick. Nick tried to implement his gameplan while Condit DID implement his gameplan.* And Condit won the striking by a good margin in rd 3-5. Condit won the fight. No amount of bitching will change that. And Diaz is a whiney bitch isnt he??


Exactly. (my added bold)


----------



## Spec0688

Condit is scared, he ran the whole time and threw kicks while staying completely out of distance. Anyone can do that and be ******* successful. 

And to those who say Condit has Octagon control, do you know what that means? hah. 

Can't wait till GSP wrecks him and shows him what a true champion looks like, at least Diaz aint scared to be in your face.


----------



## NoYards

This is called a "FIGHT" not a "WALK" .. when you walk forward you have to do something with it.

Diaz wasn't trapping Condit, matter of fact the only thing Diaz's "walk forward" did was get him kicked and punched.


----------



## Rauno

Terrible fight, just terrible. Nick was the clear agressor in this fight while Condit was backing away for 25 minutes and outlanding Nick. How do you seriously score it. 

I wish it was a 10 rounder.


----------



## Mocacho

Sideways come on man round 5 Diaz wins for sure


----------



## cdtcpl

Good fight, clearly Condit had a gameplan that worked and got him the title. I was hoping for more ground action, but still I was happy with the fight I saw.


----------



## DJ Syko

Am the biggest Diaz fan in the world, but no doubt he lost that fight, i dont really see how anyone could see it otherwise. I still how ever think Nick is the better fighter he just couldnt get his game going, he wasnt even out of breath at the end, he needs to exert more energy to implant his gameplan more effectively. he should of made it more of a brawl and actually ran condit down when he was getting away.

Well done condit, great fight.


----------



## YOUgotTKO

ok yes he walked him down but carlos did more damage, it reminded BJ vs Penn the first time!!


----------



## AlphaDawg

He'll be back. He's just throwing one of his usual hissy fits.


----------



## Jumanji

All that talk from Carlos saying he's not going to stop till one of them is asleep was complete bs. I want my 55 bucks back lol.


----------



## aerius

The fight didn't go as I expected, but the way Condit won was the I thought it would happen. Diaz' striking isn't all that dangerous unless he can get his opponent pinned on the cage, Condit did a great job of circling back out every time Diaz tried to pin him on the fence. The key to beating Diaz is using kicks and good footwork, Condit did it way better than I expected and outpointed him for the win.


----------



## Machida Karate

Fieos said:


> I disagree completely. I had it 48/47 for Diaz and was pretty surprised by the decision being so heavily in Carlos' favor. Considering it was for a belt I can understand Diaz frustration and also... that's Nick for you.


What??? Watch that fight again... I had only the second round for Diaz, and the 5th was close. BUt Condit was landing way more strikes on the rest of the rounds...

What round could u have possibly gave to Diaz to make it 48/47.....


----------



## cdtcpl

YOUgotTKO said:


> it reminded BJ vs Penn the first time!!


Wait, what?


----------



## St.Paul Guy

Rauno said:


> Terrible fight, just terrible. Nick was the clear agressor in this fight while *Condit* was backing away for 25 minutes and *outlanding Nick.* How do you seriously score it.
> 
> I wish it was a 10 rounder.


They got it right.


----------



## SM33

1, 2+5 for Diaz, 3+4 for Condit, no dominating rounds, 48-47 to Diaz.

Not a lot to say about it.


----------



## TraMaI

Terror Kovenant said:


> Never finding your opponent and only landing 3 good shots a round while getting kicked and punched all the time loses you a fight. Diaz sucked. Don't cry like he did.


I wouldn't have put it so crass, but you're right.

Yes, Condit was backing away the entire time. But he outlanded Diaz, he was more active than Diaz and he did more damage than Diaz. I gave the first 4 to Condit, the second was closer but I still have it to Carlos. NORMALLY back peddling wont win you fights, but when you counter that well, have that good of defense and remain that active you can. Aggression means jack shit if you're getting countered, kicked, out struck, out landed and out smarted. And Diaz did NOT control that ring, Condit went where he wanted when he wanted. Anyone who really thinks Diaz won that should honestly watch it again. I had it a clear victory for Carlos.

Also that "If I had known I was losing I would've finished that armlock" shit is just that, shit. Carlos defended that perfectly, there was no way Diaz could've finished it.


----------



## dlxrevolution

AlphaDawg said:


> He'll be back. He's just throwing one of his usual hissy fits.


This^

He has nothing else going for him but fighting anyways.


----------



## Toroian

Woodenhead said:


> Exactly. (my added bold)


if thats the case then why does takedown defence mean shit?


----------



## limba

Excellent gameplan and execution by Condit.

Well deserved.


----------



## chosenFEW

i like to see you in his position. a mega fight with gsp on the line and you lose to someone who runs for 25mins....


if you wouldn't be frustrated then you have no passion for what you do.


----------



## Fieos

I had it 48/47 in Diaz favor but realistically both of these guys are just going to hand the belt back to GSP in a few months without providing any meaningful opposition. I disagree with the decision but neither fighter matches up well against GSP.


----------



## Freakshow

I honestly can't see how anyone who watched that fight could thing Diaz won. I'm sure even Diaz will watch it tommorrow and say " damn! I just followed him around trying to do my cage-pillow-punch thing" the whole fight


----------



## Roflcopter

Condit "won" that fight.

Typical Jackson fighter performance.


----------



## Toxic




----------



## Mckeever

***** you Greg Jackson*

**** you Greg for turning a FOTY candidate into a a game of tag and run.

**** you Greg for turning the Natural Born Killer into a safety first fighter.

**** you Greg for ruining GSP





**** you Greg Jackson.


----------



## Alessia

Spec0688 said:


> Condit is scared, he ran the whole time and threw kicks while staying completely out of distance. Anyone can do that and be ******* successful.
> 
> And to those who say Condit has Octagon control, do you know what that means? hah.


If anyone can do that, I'm looking forward to your UFC debut against a top opponent. I expect you will come out victorious right?

And yes Condit had octagon control, if Diaz had it Condit would have been pressed against the cage getting hit with combos like Penn was.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

You have to admit... it was a brilliant game plan.


----------



## AmdM

hadoq said:


> possible fight of the year right there
> 
> fight of the night for sure


Seriously? Barao - Jorgehsen was better than this.
If this is your definition on FOTY you should watch the other events UFC has hosted this year.



BWoods said:


> Diaz
> Diaz
> Condit
> Condit
> Diaz
> 
> At least that's how I saw it. *Running away while throwing leg kicks doesn't impress me.*


I had it as you. Condit was running away, not using elusive movement but blatantly running away like a bitch, 
i was expecting FOTY out of this one and only one man came out to fight. 



Life B Ez said:


> Back pedaling and throwing leg slaps with your foot should not win you a fight. Just because you spin more doesn't win a round. This isn't ******* figure skating.
> 
> *This was an completely embarrassing performance on both ends.*


I agree with that. This was embarrassing to watch and certainly a embarrassment towards the sport. 
I'll make sure i won't show this fight to any of my friends
as i would have to put a paper bag over my head. 

F*ck this sh*t!
May the running bitches win.


----------



## SideWays222

Mocacho said:


> Sideways come on man round 5 Diaz wins for sure


How???

All he had going for him rd 5 was the takedown in which Condit ended up on top at the end. Also Condit defended a takedown before that.


Oh and to who said "Do you know what octagon control means??"

DO YOU???? cuz i do. The reason i know they gave it to Condit is because a Judge once explained that being the aggressor doesnt mean you get the Octagon Control. Which is probably what you thought it did lololol


----------



## Sousa

lol Nick Diaz lost and yet his hype train hasn't been derailed. How sad. He got beat and it was justified. Don't need crybabies now


----------



## LL

He's a ******* cry baby plain and simple.

What sucks is the Diaz nuthuggers are gonna be in here to say "Oh Condit just ran away" or shit like that, like it's ******* smart to let Diaz box him up.


----------



## cdtcpl

Also did anyone else note that Diaz admitted he is paid a "shit ton of money"? After bitching so much about not getting paid in his retirement speech he changes his opinion?


----------



## Rauno

He wasn't disrespectful. He praied Condit yet didn't accept the outcome of the fight.


----------



## Fieos

Machida Karate said:


> What??? Watch that fight again... I had only the second round for Diaz, and the 5th was close. BUt Condit was landing way more strikes on the rest of the rounds...
> 
> What round could u have possibly gave to Diaz to make it 48/47.....


I gave the first, second, and fifth round to Diaz. Carlos definitely had the third and fourth though.


----------



## Rygu

So if Machida does it, it's elusive. If Condit does it, he's running away? It's landing strikes x avoiding strikes. Condit did it better.


----------



## SpoKen

I like Diaz and Condit, but I'm not happy about this fight at all.

Don't get me wrong, Condit fought the way he was supposed to and it was a title fight so why take risks?

I'm more upset that the only way to beat Nick Diaz is to avoid fighting him as much as possible.


----------



## footodors

Carlos "Natural Born Runner" Condit


----------



## DrFunk

Life B Ez said:


> Back pedaling and throwing leg slaps with your foot should not win you a fight. Just because you spin more doesn't win a round. This isn't ******* figure skating.
> 
> This was an completely embarrassing performance on both ends.


What fight were you watching? R1-R2 was mixed and could have counted either way. Fact is Condit stuck to his gameplan throught the WHOLE fight. By R3 Nick realized he's slowly getting picked apart methodically on his feet and everytime he's trying to corner Condit against the cage Condit would run away free.

Then when he started getting frustrated by the Machida esque fighting style Condit took some good shots on him which pissed him off even more. In fact, Condit got inside Diaz's head, he "Diazed" Diaz.

Desperation started showing when he dropped his hands and started telling fat momma jokes but Condit just kept getting out of corners and kept hitting him. By the end of another round he held on to his leg an extra 3 sec just to try to get Condit off of his game, he was THAT desperate.

Then when that didn't work, he started his weak ass takedown attempts. See that's far worse than "running" away from getting cornered with the back against the cage. Diaz attempting to TD there was him acknowledging that shit just was not working in his favour standing.

He knows he got beat but can't stand that point so now he's taking the ball and going home. Good riddance! If UFC was smart, they'd slap a mic to GSP immediately after Nick said he's retiring. GSP saying "Where you going Nick?" in his french accent would have had me rolling on the floor (not that GSP would ever do that hahahaha).


----------



## bogey_j

*This Was The Worst Possible Outcome For The UFC..*



carlos winning by points in a boring decision. if carlos had to be the spoiler and win, he should've done it emphatically and went for the KO/TKO. instead he employed the typical greg jackson strategy of run and win on points. now hyping condit/gsp is going to be hard because now you have jabber vs runner

now nick retiring? worst possible outcome for the UFC


----------



## Jumanji

Machida Karate said:


> What??? Watch that fight again... I had only the second round for Diaz, and the 5th was close. BUt Condit was landing way more strikes on the rest of the rounds...
> 
> What round could u have possibly gave to Diaz to make it 48/47.....


1st, 2nd, and 5th for me. But the 1st was really close, I gave it to Nick because Carlos just looked like he was running away. 5th was clear for Diaz IMO. Carlos was winning before the takedown and Nick taking his back, but not by much so I gave that round to Nick.


----------



## box

Cry babies, I haven't seen any yet, I just see people picking the fight apart and scoring it how they saw it. I saw Condit run like Bisping, to get the title shot. You can't blaim him, but it wasn't what I was expecting from him, that's all.


----------



## Toxic

Diaz hardly even threw after the first round. His chased Carlos down but was eating more strikes than he was throwing, what did he expect?


----------



## AlphaDawg

Not really. Worst outcome would have been a draw/bad decision. We'd have to rewatch that terrible fight again.

EDIT: I'm surprised so many people actually think Diaz is retiring.


----------



## Walker

YEAH!

**** you Jackson!

Carlos now holds the interim title and GSP is the reigning title holder. 

YOU SUCK! :sarcastic12:


----------



## HexRei

Machida Karate said:


> What??? Watch that fight again... I had only the second round for Diaz, and the 5th was close. BUt Condit was landing way more strikes on the rest of the rounds...
> 
> What round could u have possibly gave to Diaz to make it 48/47.....


"effective" strikes, diaz looked unfazed by almost every strike. he walked through them like the terminator. he landed less, and condit was more mobile skipping laterally away from diaz very often but over all i thought diaz' strikes were a lot scarier and more damaging overall to condit than condits were to diaz.

in fairness, i bet on diaz so had a favorite here but i still think this was a very close decision that depended more on how the judges scored damage than actual strikes landed, and with the final TD to sub attempt I was surprised at the score.


----------



## NoYards

SideWays222 said:


> Nick Diaz had agression but Condit had Octagon Control. Its Condit that dictated where that fight takes place and not Nick. Nick tried to implement his gameplan while Condit DID implement his gameplan. And Condit won the striking by a good margin in rd 3-5. Condit won the fight. No amount of bitching will change that. And Diaz is a whiney bitch isnt he??


Good explanation of what 'ring control' actually means ... just because Nick was walking forward doesn't meant he had 'control' .. the 'control' was with Condit who lead Diaz into trap after trap.

Spider Silva does this all the time ... granted with more style and flair and more obvious affect than what Condit was doing, but the results were the same ... Condit walking away from Diaz's 'charge' giving more than he got.


----------



## John8204

Aren't you a Bisping fan? Bitching about points really....

I don't think Condit "won the fight" as much as Diaz "lost the fight" but c'mon this is a valid way to win. This wasn't like Diego or Leonard running through an onslaught pressing the cage and going for takedowns.


----------



## Finnsidious

Diaz acting classless and delusional?? That's unpossible.

In other news, water wet, sky blue.

Nothing to say at all about Diaz here except L....O....L.

Back to Strikeforce Nicky, they have some guys you can beat.


----------



## LL

How was that boring? Honestly, you people need to wisen the **** up and put yourself in Condit's shoes.

Who in their right mind wants to let Nick Diaz beat the shit out of them? Did ANYONE here besides me catch the Penn fight? He fucked BJ up. You're damn right Condit kept moving, and he's a ******* genius for it.

Use your ******* heads.


----------



## fightfan76

rygu said:


> Condit landed way more strikes, and lots of hard legkicks. what fight were you watching?


The 1 w/ the "Diaz" shaded glasses, I like both of these guys but the fanboys are being ridiculous. Thats how it looks when you do not allow Diaz to corner you "RUNNING", Diaz presses you that hard and fast and if you dont get away fast enough you will get picked apart and beat down. This is how you beat Diaz unless you do like GSP and take him down and smother him. Also, he hit Diaz w/ some good shots and was trying to do damage; Diaz is just so damn tough. Bottom line is, Diaz won octagon control and got 1 take down w/ less than a minute left in the fight, sorry, thats not enough to steal the round IMO. Condit won the fight w/o a doubt IMO.....


----------



## Jumanji

cdtcpl said:


> Also did anyone else note that Diaz admitted he is paid a "shit ton of money"? After bitching so much about not getting paid in his retirement speech he changes his opinion?


Hes probably getting paid a shitload for this fight so I'd assume thats why he said that.


----------



## DragonStriker

Condit is a beast, hope he beats GSP.


----------



## Chileandude

It was a really awesome fight, definately not what i was expecting but i walked out pretty satisfied.

Condit Machida'ed Diaz, he controlled the octagon perfectly, fought his fight and managed to frustrate Diaz. It was a very close fight and to me it looked like Condit wasn't too confortable with the stick and move approach and it took it a while to really start putting the damage on Diaz.

If i was a Judge i would probably have scored some 10-10 rounds early in the fight.


----------



## Machida Karate

Freakshow said:


> I honestly can't see how anyone who watched that fight could thing Diaz won. I'm sure even Diaz will watch it tommorrow and say " damn! I just followed him around trying to do my cage-pillow-punch thing" the whole fight


Yeah what people are calling, "running" i called avoiding Diaz's whole game plan.... People expect him to just lean against the cage like BJ and play the, Block body or Head game? 

He was landing cleaner shots, avoiding most of Diaz's strikes, and literally kicking the shit out of Diaz boxing stance, with little to no checks....

He had a perfect game plan and stuck with it... Carlos is my New Hero!


----------



## Toxic

Everytime a fighter doesn't go all Chris Leben it doesn't mean they are playing it safe. Refusing to fight your opponents fight isn't being safe its not being stupid. Is every fighter that fights Demian Maia playing it safe because they refuse to pull guard on him?


----------



## funkasaurus

I'm a MASSIVE Diaz fan, if that'll change anything below.

Condit won for me. He took 3 & 4 no doubt, and I see the rest as a toss up. The reason Diaz fans will complain isnt because 'their boy lost'. I personally am not a fan of the loud mouth antics, cockiness and arrogant fighting, I'm a fan in spite of those things. I like Diaz because he comes forward, he comes to fight and hurt you, he likes taking punches, making it exciting and showing heart. Condit was the opposite, and I think Diaz fans will be angry at the contrast in the style they favor to that of Condit. 

Also, GSP Vs Condit will be great? You kidding? I'm assuming that it will make Evans Vs Davis look like Henderson Vs Shogun. *Conidt runs away flicking ineffective head kicks* *He backs up and is aware of the cage* *He is caught slipping on a kick and is taken down* *GSP lays on him*. Repeat for 4 more rounds.


----------



## irishman0

khoveraki said:


> Diaz won that fight about as much as Big Country won JDS vs. Nelson. Nelson was technically walking forward most of that fight, I guess that should count for 90% of scoring?
> 
> 
> Forget about landing the most strikes, doing the most damage, implementing your game plan, not taking any damage...


I agree one hundred percent. He was jabbering about pushing forward most of the fight. That is all well and good except he didn't land shit. His face says all we need to know about who was landing more shots.

Anyways, I love crybabies... what a *****. WAH! :boo01:


----------



## NoYards

HexRei said:


> "effective" strikes, diaz looked unfazed by almost every strike. he walked through them like the terminator.


And how many 'effective' strikes did Diaz have?

You could be right, Condit didn't have a whole lot of 'effective' strikes ... but Diaz had fewer.


----------



## SpoKen

I wasn't bored and the outcome could have been much worse. I'm sure lots of Diaz and neutral fans aren't happy but hey, it's a championship fight and you do what you gotta do to win.

Also, keep this in the Stickies. EDIT: nah, just this one.


----------



## Mckeever

John8204 said:


> Aren't you a Bisping fan? Bitching about points really....
> 
> I don't think Condit "won the fight" as much as Diaz "lost the fight" but c'mon this is a valid way to win. This wasn't like Diego or Leonard running through an onslaught pressing the cage and going for takedowns.


Where in my post did I bitch about points or the decision? Where?

This thread is to say **** you Greg Jackson for turning away casual fans from this sport and turning fighters with killer instinct into boring, safety first fighters.

What has Bisping got to do with any thing? I scored the fight for Chael Sonnen.


----------



## dlxrevolution

Canadian Psycho said:


> You have to admit... it was a brilliant game plan.


Exactly. Everybodies complaining about Condit not trying to finish, you go in and try to finish Diaz and you're played with fire. Much easier to beat Diaz by points then to play his game and try to finish him IMO.


----------



## Walker

I agree if Nick Diaz actually retires the UFC will fold and end up like Affliction. Truly a sad day.


----------



## LL

WANNNH CARLOS DIDN'T LET NICK HIT HIM WANNNH!

No shit, he's not a ******* idiot like Penn or Daley.


----------



## cookiefritas

Beautiful fight by Condit. He kept attacking the lead leg and circling away from Diaz's left hand. Haters are going to hate, but Condit won the fight and it was not even close. There is no reason to get in a slugfest with Diaz, that is his bread and butter.


----------



## Jumanji

Carlos should definetly change his nickname after that fight. Natural born killers don't try to win by decision.


----------



## Black_S15

footodors said:


> Carlos "Natural Born Runner" Condit


beat me to it.

condit is a top dude and congrats to him i guess but seriously, he ran the majority of the fight... it just did not feel right when he was announced the champion, dont know about you but a UFC champion doesnt win like that..

Diaz had the first 2 rounds and the 5th. was working hard for the submission.

it kind of sucks that you can be a UFC chamption and fight the way condit did. which was basically to avoid fighting nick and run. lets face it those baby kicks did nothing to DIaz at all.


----------



## Glothin

Greg Jackson learned from the fight with Nate & Cowboy and definitely developed a better strategy for this fight. He's great at what he does, but I usually root against his gym.


----------



## DJ Syko

SpoKen said:


> I like Diaz and Condit, but I'm not happy about this fight at all.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, Condit fought the way he was supposed to and it was a title fight so why take risks?
> 
> I'm more upset that the only way to beat Nick Diaz is to avoid fighting him as much as possible.


avoid fighting him? wtf he countered almost everything diaz through at him, yeah he was moving backwards but by no means did he avoid fighting. look at the stats condit landed more strikes and way more significant strikes.


----------



## limba

rygu said:


> So if Machida does it, it's elusive. If Condit does it, he's running away? It's landing strikes x avoiding strikes. Condit did it better.


LOL :thumbsup:


----------



## Rygu

Nick didn't land shit in the last three rounds. Yes, he came forward...and ate shots. But Condit landed more strikes, that is one of the main things judges look for in case you were not aware.


----------



## Term

Alessia said:


> Why should aggression that leads to mostly nothing and is nullified by excellent movement be scored any higher? It was negated by Carlos and he out struck Diaz. No way Diaz won that fight.
> 
> It's funny, I was actually slowly becoming a fan of Nick leading up to this fight. I almost actually thought he was just misunderstood, but his post fight shit, just showed what kind of person he really is.


This, almost word for word what I wanted to post. I wouldn't say I was becoming a fan, but I had slight more respect for him. Post fight interview reminded why I didn't before.

Also, good riddance.


----------



## Mckeever

TheLyotoLegion said:


> WANNNH CARLOS DIDN'T LET NICK HIT HIM WANNNH!
> 
> No shit, he's not a ******* idiot like Penn or Daley.


This isn't about Carlos Condit. It is about Greg Jackson.

That man is poison.


----------



## dsmjrv

yeah this kind of aditude from diaz is not surprising, extremely close fight and both fighter were able to impose their game to a degree...

thruth is that he may have controlled the center of the octagon, but getting tagged up in the process doesnt solidify the win... the takedown at the end was nice and i thought he stole it because judges hold takedowns in high regards but it just wasnt enough...


----------



## Machida Karate

Condit showed a amazing game plan, and beat the shit out of the cry baby.... Look at his face and tell me otherwise...


----------



## Rauno

> Condit outlands Diaz 146 to 110 in total strikes landed


Was that really so big of a difference. Count in the agression and moving bacwards from Condit and i would have given it 3-2 to Nick.


----------



## SideWays222

Just cause Nick Diaz is a cry baby doesnt mean you guys have to be cry babies aswell.

Condit won rd 3-5. He won the striking and octagon control. The kick Combo Condit landed on Diaz was absolutely beautiful. I loved this fight... i think only Diaz fans think it was disappointing.


----------



## TraMaI

Spec0688 said:


> Condit is scared, *he ran the whole time and threw kicks while staying completely out of distance. Anyone can do that and be ******* successful*.
> 
> And to those who say Condit has Octagon control, do you know what that means? hah.
> 
> Can't wait till GSP wrecks him and shows him what a true champion looks like, at least Diaz aint scared to be in your face.


Anyone except for Nick Diaz. 

Carlos won because Diaz isn't smart enough to play directly into Carlos' hands. He was predictable and had no other approach to that fight and Carlos played him like a damn fiddle. That's why he lost.


----------



## Woodenhead

SpoKen said:


> I'm more upset that the only way to beat Nick Diaz is to avoid fighting him as much as possible.


heh Well, wrestling does it, too, but Condit chose not to take that route. GSP would embarrass Diaz that way, though. (we'll never know for sure now, I guess :[ )


----------



## 420atalon

SpoKen said:


> I like Diaz and Condit, but I'm not happy about this fight at all.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, Condit fought the way he was supposed to and it was a title fight so why take risks?
> 
> I'm more upset that the only way to beat Nick Diaz is to avoid fighting him as much as possible.


Its not the only way to beat Nick. The easiest way is to take him down and beat him up but Condit doesn't really have the wrestling to do that.

No one should be mad about this fight. Condit fought a smart fight instead of being an idiot and falling for Diaz's tricks/antics like most of Diaz's opponents usually do. 

I thought it was a very close fight tonight, Condit imo was landing the better shots all night but Diaz was the one pushing the pace so I wasn't sure how the judges were going to see it.


----------



## Glothin

It was a close fight. Condit's strategy paid off. I am a fan of watching the Diaz brothers' get to fight the fight they want (which this was not)


----------



## DragonStriker

I could care less about the pickems glad Condit won.


----------



## LL

Mckeever said:


> This isn't about Carlos Condit. It is about Greg Jackson.
> 
> That man is poison.


How is it Jackson's fault? For putting together the gameplan to counter Nick Diaz? To give a guy he's known and trained for years the shot of a life time?

Of course it's Greg Jackson, it's called strategy, and in sports you must use it.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

I guess it all depends on what you want more, and I think for Carlos - at least here and now - it was the belt. I can safely say that had Condit opted to stand and trade with Diaz, he would have lost. Now, how does that benefit him when he could instead exercise movement, still land some vicious shots, and walk away the champion? Come on, people... it's okay to occasionally fight to win.


----------



## Toxic

Well its obvious with all those flying knees and spinning back fists that Condit had no intention of finishing Diaz at anytime.


----------



## AlphaDawg

Mckeever said:


> **** you Greg Jackson.


----------



## the ultimate

Condit was the deserved winner imo. He out-landed him, fought the smarter fight and controlled the distance.


----------



## Fieos

Ultimately it was a close fight so people's opinions will inevitably fall on both sides of the decision. We did see a UFC universal truth on display again....

If you take two elite wrestlers and put them in a cage you'll get a shitty boxing match...

If you take two elite grapplers and put them in a cage you'll get a shitty boxing match.

If you take two elite strikers you'll 'often' get a shitty grappling match...

If you put two aggressive angry fighters in a cage you'll get a boring performance....


----------



## Black_S15

irishman0 said:


> I agree one hundred percent. He was jabbering about pushing forward most of the fight. That is all well and good except he didn't land shit. His face says all we need to know about who was landing more shots.
> 
> Anyways, I love crybabies... what a *****. WAH! :boo01:


are both of you serious ? how the F*** can you compare big country vs JDS. JDS was using Nelsons head as a punching back with vicious blow after blow.

Diaz was pushing forward the WHOLE fight and condit was just running. round 3 and 4 he started to hit nick. but to give round 1 and 2 to condit is a joke.


----------



## John8204

Don't get me wrong this was a shit night for all the fighters involved.

Dustin didn't look like a World beater and might have lost his title shot to Hettes despite finishing his guy in the first.

Barao will get his title shot, and lose to Cruz.

Alex Caraces lost a BS fight.

Werdum and Koscheck looked like crap in wins while Pierce and Nelson just earned "gate keeper status".

Ed Herman got a cheap ass win that impressed no one.

Matt Riddle and Matt Brown both won fights earning them the right to fight in prelims for another year.

The only guy who had a "good" night was the dude who fought on the Facebook prelim Thompson.

With all that said, crappy night for the UFC great night for the fans as we saw 3 finishes and 4 close fights.


----------



## Prolific

I thought the fight was ok, i was more bored by the fact that this performance didnt warrant either of them facing gsp no matter who won the fight. I think it should be a requirment to beat fitch to get a title shot.


----------



## Chileandude

wait you found that boring? better go to the bar and start some shit up so you can get your dose of mindless agression.

That fight was a beautiful display of MMA.


----------



## fightfan76

Everybody saying those were "baby leg kicks", I would love to see you take a few. I agree, you dont win a fight only throwing leg kicks, unless your opponent is missing most of his strikes.....


----------



## Jumanji

TheLyotoLegion said:


> How was that boring? Honestly, you people need to wisen the **** up and put yourself in Condit's shoes.
> 
> Who in their right mind wants to let Nick Diaz beat the shit out of them? Did ANYONE here besides me catch the Penn fight? He fucked BJ up. You're damn right Condit kept moving, and he's a ******* genius for it.
> 
> Use your ******* heads.


Well then don't hype the fight up so much and say your going to go toe to toe with him and not stop till one of you are asleep. That makes people spend there hard earned money expecting a crazy fight. 

Sorry for my rant, i'm just pissed I paid for that shiiiit.


----------



## Bonnar426

Mckeever said:


> Where in my post did I bitch about points or the decision? Where?
> 
> This thread is to say **** you Greg Jackson for turning away casual fans from this sport and turning fighters with killer instinct into boring, safety first fighters.


Hey Mckeever,

Let me direct you to my sig which says..._You forget that this isn't just some brutal sport where everyones out to kill each other. Its much more like a game of physical chess_.

That's what happened tonight. A game of physical chess. If the casual fans have a problem with it then they weren't true fans of MMA. Apparently the WWE is more of their style.


----------



## St.Paul Guy

:sarcastic09:

I didn't find the fight boring at all, and I think it was a terrific gameplan that was executed damn near flawlessly.

Condit didn't just run around the cage the whole time. He usually landed a combination and escaped when pressed up against the cage (a feat that none of Diaz's opponents have pulled off until now), and _outstruck him _when the fight was in the middle of the octagon.

If a fighter goes in to a fight looking to knock Diaz out or submit him in round 1 they are going to lose. I don't care who it is. Condit and Jackson realized this and avoided it.


----------



## SideWays222

Quit crying plz 


YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE ( :


----------



## BrutalKO

...OH MAN! Should have been a *Draw---Draw---Draw.* Nick won the aggression & octagon control especially the first 2 rounds with Nick constantly backing Carlos up. Then with the takedown/submission attempt in rd 5. Condit landed more significant strikes, especially tons of legkicks. He circled out and avoided damage very well. That was too damn close of a fight! They both a fought fantastic fight---*a draw would have been justified. * Condit is a great human being so, I can't say no to him either. He earned it. He stuck to the gameplan like superglue. Nick had better not quit. He can't quit at his peak. 
...Werdum & Nelson went to a decision as I thought but Fabricio's knees were seriously brutal. Werdum's striking was really good. Nelson's chin is a trip but he got busted up. All in all---Nick & Carlos should have been a draw. I've seen draws that weren't as close as that...

_P.S. Rogan is right- Meisha & Ronda is gonna be a hot fight. I'll probably have a hard-on when they meet..._


----------



## Mocacho

I wish Diaz would have been like **** this nonsense and sat down crossed his legs and meditated in protest. Condit probably would have circled the cage and shadow boxed by himself.


----------



## Woodenhead

Jumanji said:


> Carlos should definetly change his nickname after that fight. Natural born killers don't try to win by decision.


Actually, he made Diaz retire & thus killed his career.


----------



## Mckeever

TheLyotoLegion said:


> How is it Jackson's fault? For putting together the gameplan to counter Nick Diaz? To give a guy he's known and trained for years the shot of a life time?
> 
> Of course it's Greg Jackson, it's called strategy, and in sports you must use it.


It's called being an Anti-fighter which contributes to slowly destroying this sport.

People don't want to watch snoozefests like that where there has been months of hype of "KO this, KO that".

This thread will segregate the two types of MMA fans:

The fight fan and the Anti-fight fan. The latter I have genuinely no idea why it is they watch this sport in the first place.

I want to see fighting. Not anti-fighting.


----------



## SideWays222

Some people just shouldnt watch MMA...


----------



## Walker

Glothin said:


> No one lost the fight.
> 
> No one won the fight.
> 
> There was no fight.
> 
> That's why Diaz would rather sling burgers in a food truck than be a BS pawn.


That's, like, awesome poetry man- utterly nonsensical poetry but yeah.


----------



## khoveraki

Great technical striking from Carlos, and a few of the most impressive combos ever. The one he threw that was kick huge punch huge kick (can't remember the order atm) that made Nick stop midfight to see if his nose was broken was awesome.


Super giant spinning elbows, super man jab-crosses, timing a huge right then moving laterally when Diaz had him close to the cage... landing a ton of huge kicks early on and slowing Diaz right down was fun to see too.


----------



## Rygu

Black_S15 said:


> are both of you serious ? how the F*** can you compare big country vs JDS. JDS was using Nelsons head as a punching back with vicious blow after blow.
> 
> Diaz was pushing forward the WHOLE fight and condit was just running. round 3 and 4 he started to hit nick. but to give round 1 and 2 to condit is a joke.


It's funny how Nick was making fun of Carlos' "baby leg-kicks" when the ones he was throwing were pretty damn bad. All I remember Nick landing was a few punches to the face and body each, one maybe two flurries to the body, and some shitty kicks.


----------



## DrFunk

Since when is MMA about standing your ground and exchanging strikes? Seriously, I don't get this opinion coming from Diaz fans. There are "bar brawlers" who will do that kind of thing and obviously Nick wants that kind of fight since it suits his cardio/speed striking technique. Just look at what happened to BJ who tried to "brawl" with him. So why risk it? Martial art at its fundamental base is about exploiting the weakness of your opponent. If you know his gameplan is to get you with your back against the cage so you can "slug" it out, what did you expect Condit would do? Didn't work for Cowboy, didn't work for BJ so Condit decided to take advantage of his superior technical footwork and methodically took Diaz apart.

Please don't give me this crap about Condit hit Diaz with baby strikes.. Diaz babystrikes his opponents against the cage far worse than Condit does. If none of the strikes really "hurt" Diaz he wouldn't have gotten so desperate with his antics (A Silva imitation, trash talk, holding leg after bell, desperation takedown attempt)... 

Maybe Diaz should start a new league of MMA with 'Stockton' rules. Get in the middle and slug it out without moving, whoever is left standing wins...


----------



## Chileandude

Jumanji said:


> Carlos should definetly change his nickname after that fight. Natural born killers don't try to win by decision.


Yeah, because adding a 2nd decision to 26 finishes is just something that cannot be accepted. Condit was throwing with mean intentions and was obviously trying to finish, he probably knew he didn't have a good chance of finish Diaz by being overly aggresive and mindlessly trading.


----------



## SideWays222

BrutalKO said:


> ...OH MAN! Should have been a *Draw---Draw---Draw.* Nick won the aggression & *octagon control* especially the first 2 rounds with Nick constantly backing Carlos up. Then with the takedown/submission attempt in rd 5. Condit landed more significant strikes, especially tons of legkicks. He circled out and avoided damage very well. That was too damn close of a fight! They both fought fantastic fight---*a draw would have been justified. * Condit is a great human being so, I can't say no to him either. He earned it. He stuck to the gameplan like superglue. Nick had better not quit. He can't quit at his peak.
> ...Werdum & Nelson went to a decision as I thought but Fabricio's knees were seriously brutal. Werdum's striking was really good. Nelson's chin is a tripnbut he was busted up. All in all---Nick & Carlos should have been a draw. I've seen draws that weren't as close as that...


LOLOLOLOLOL

I stopped reading there. Go educate yourself on what octagon control means before you claim you know who won it. :thumb02:


----------



## Woodenhead

It was maybe bad for casual fans who are more interested in bumfights & street fights. It _was_ bad for the UFC if Diaz actually stays retired.


----------



## deadmanshand

Black_S15 said:


> Diaz was pushing forward the WHOLE fight and condit was just running. round 3 and 4 he started to hit nick. but to give round 1 and 2 to condit is a joke.


We'll just ignore how Condit outlanded him in every round and yeah then I can see giving the first two rounds to Diaz. As is Diaz clearly lost every round but the fifth. He was outstruck, couldn't impose his gameplan, and just didn't do anything. Where as Condit controlled the octagon, won damn near every striking exchange, and imposed his gameplan on Diaz for the entire match.

Looking at it that way I guess it does seem close doesn't it?


----------



## funkasaurus

Condit ran away, yeah, it's true, anyone disagreeing is just a Condit fan or Diaz hater.

But (yeah there's a but...), how can you say Nick deserved it based on that? What did you want? A toe to toe fight from Condit? You try standing in front of Diaz and tell me you wouldnt want to get the **** out of close range. Condit found the style to beat Nick. Unfortunatley it means running away. He has the title shot, Diaz doesnt. Mission successful. JMM used a similar strategy to beat Pacquiao (Major Pac fan, but **** the result). Me and the rest of the Diaz fans wont be a fan of how Condit faught, because the reason we like Nick is because he DOESNT fight like Condit did, but at the same time, the guy got a legit win over a guy we thought was unbeatable. Give him credit.


----------



## OHKO

If this is the prelude to Condit's future performances, I'd much rather see GSP remain champ.


----------



## LL

Mckeever said:


> It's called being an Anti-fighter which contributes to slowly destroying this sport.
> 
> People don't want to watch snoozefests like that where there has been months of hype of "KO this, KO that".
> 
> This thread will segregate the two types of MMA fans:
> 
> The fight fan and the Anti-fight fan. The latter I have genuinely no idea why it is they watch this sport in the first place.
> 
> I want to see fighting. Not anti-fighting.


How does this thread segregate fans? I thought both fighters were putting up good performances but the fact is in every sport you need a gameplan and yes MMA is a sport, not a back room brawl like it was in 1993.

Just accept it, that fight didn't suck you're just angry Condit didn't fall into Diaz's gameplan like Penn and Daley and all the others did.


----------



## Jumanji

Woodenhead said:


> Actually, he made Diaz retire & thus killed his career.


No way Nick is retiring


----------



## Walker

Jumanji said:


> Well then don't hype the fight up so much and say your going to go toe to toe with him and not stop till one of you are asleep. That makes people spend there hard earned money expecting a crazy fight.
> 
> Sorry for my rant, i'm just pissed I paid for that shiiiit.


You do realize that most fighters are told to hype the fight up and say anything leading up to the fight to try and hype the fight regardless of their actual gameplan- right?


----------



## limba

Diaz is just pissed/surprised...Condit didn't play his game.

It's a fair thing to say, Condit is a more intelligent person than Daley, Evangelista or BJ

Also...someone should explain to Diaz, that judges don't score taunting any thrash talking in the middle of the fight.....


----------



## SideWays222

*J. Octagon Control
1. The fighter who is dictating the pace, place and position of the fight.
2. A striker who fends off a grappler's takedown attempt to remain standing and effectively strike is octagon control.*


Official octagon control criteria. 

Condit did everything there. He controlled the pace, place and position. Nick Diaz just walked after him attempting to corner but not once was able to.


----------



## Soakked

I'm a big Diaz fan but I thought Carlos won this easy. Good MT fighters with good foot work will give Diaz trouble, it's a terrible stylistic match up for him. I'm personally not too fond of the stick and move type point fighting but he did stick to his game plan and beat a tough opponent because of it.

Can't blame him.


----------



## NoYards

Rauno said:


> Condit outlands Diaz 146 to 110 in total strikes landed
> 
> Was that really so big of a difference. Count in the agression and moving bacwards from Condit and i would have given it 3-2 to Nick.


Being 'aggressive' and out struck (not to mention leg kicks) is not called 'winning', it's called 'walking into a trap'.


----------



## cursedbat

Its funny how easy it is to figure out how many of you have absolutely no fight experience and no idea what you are talking about.

Diaz mistake was he had no corner. He should have known from before to never let the judges have it.

Ring generalship? Wake up thats the most hilarious non-sense I've heard. All of you that share that opinion are probably Mayweather fans also. Diaz RAN that coward down for 5 rounds. Carlos said he was a warrior and fought like a points artist. He threw non-effective baby shots that did no damage. Then ate a big shot and ran some more. Thats ok but dont say you are a warrior, I've lost respect for Condit.

The guys in here that are delusional just dont like Nick. If you are happy that Diaz might never fight again than you are a fake MMA fan. Diaz had GSP turned into a wannabe thug for attention thats how much of an impact he has. He made Carlos do the Stand up version of the lay and pray. Embarrassing.

Even if you had Condit winning by bullshit style tell me how the score could have been 4 or 5 rounds to one or none. Again Condit fought like a chump and its Diaz fault for not having a corner or finishing the fight. Even if Condit did just run a cross country marathon.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

John8204 said:


> Don't get me wrong this was a shit night for all the fighters involved.
> 
> Dustin didn't look like a World beater and might have lost his title shot to Hettes despite finishing his guy in the first.
> 
> Barao will get his title shot, and lose to Cruz.
> 
> Alex Caraces lost a BS fight.
> 
> Werdum and Koscheck looked like crap in wins while Pierce and Nelson just earned "gate keeper status".
> 
> Ed Herman got a cheap ass win that impressed no one.
> 
> Matt Riddle and Matt Brown both won fights earning them the right to fight in prelims for another year.
> 
> The only guy who had a "good" night was the dude who fought on the Facebook prelim Thompson.
> 
> With all that said, crappy night for the UFC great night for the fans as we saw 3 finishes and 4 close fights.


Dustin crushed him on the ground, which is where everyone knows his strengths are. How could anyone in their right mind not give him the utmost credit for that win? Who are you?

And how did Fabricio look like crap? He turned Nelson into hamburger, and inarguably put more of a beating on him than the current HW champion. lol... just lol.


----------



## 420atalon

You are aiming your anger in the wrong direction. Maybe Diaz should have tried to do enough to win the fight, go for the takedown earlier, pressure a little more, fight more instead of trying to taunt Condit...


----------



## Toxic

Mckeever said:


> It's called being an Anti-fighter which contributes to slowly destroying this sport.
> 
> People don't want to watch snoozefests like that where there has been months of hype of "KO this, KO that".
> 
> This thread will segregate the two types of MMA fans:
> 
> The fight fan and the Anti-fight fan. The latter I have genuinely no idea why it is they watch this sport in the first place.
> 
> I want to see fighting. Not anti-fighting.


How about MMA fans vs Fight fans. I watch MMA its a sport. If I turn on the fight network I can probably find some low rent tough man competition were people are untrained. That is a fight. One requires skill the other the ability to have ones face used as a punching bag while fat ugly people chugging 40's yell obscenities.


----------



## Rusty

Rauno said:


> Was that really so big of a difference. Count in the agression and moving bacwards from Condit and i would have given it 3-2 to Nick.


You like Nick more is why you say that. 

Did all the Diaz fans want Carlos to stand there and trade with him like Daley until one of them dropped? I thought mma fans didn't want it confused with toughman competitions or street brawling? Aren't you guys into bowing, touching gloves, technique over talent, and all that other respectful nonsense?

Condit had a great gameplan and executed it perfectly. He outlanded him and busted his face up. He defended all but one of Diaz' pathetic, desperation takedowns and won the fight clearly. 

This fight was very similar to the Sanchez, Kampman fight except the decision was correct:thumb02:


----------



## Mckeever

TheLyotoLegion said:


> How does this thread segregate fans? I thought both fighters were putting up good performances but the fact is in every sport you need a gameplan and yes MMA is a sport, not a back room brawl like it was in 1993.
> 
> Just accept it, that fight didn't suck you're just angry Condit didn't fall into Diaz's gameplan like Penn and Daley and all the others did.


I'm angry because Greg Jackson ruined Dan Henderson vs Shogun Rua part two. I'm angry because this is the most hyped up I have been for a fight in months. There should have been knock downs, scrambles, blood, more knock downs, submission attempts and then some more knock downs. I purchased a product that was falsely advertised.

For the people quick to label me as not a true MMA fan, that is nonsense. I admire fighters like Lyoto Machida, boxers like Floyd Mayweather. There is an art to what they do and it is a joy to watch. I also admire to watch fighters like Carlos Condit. Carlos Condit, who before this fight was arguably one of the most tenacious, deadly, fearless mother fuckers in this sport. There is an art to that fighting style too and tonight, the real Carlos Condit didn't show up. It was Greg Jacksons head with Carlos' body attached. I despised the way Condit fought tonight, that isn't the natural born killer I had become such a fan of.


----------



## hadoq

how in the world Nick won octagon control? he spent 25 minutes running after Condit. Nick didn't dictate where the fight took place, if he did, it would have ended against the cage and Nick would have won a TKO.

The way condit got off the cage circling was clearly something he worked on in his camp, and it worked, frustrated Diaz and preventing him to find both his rhythm and his range.

Octagon control was 100% (ok, maybe 80%) Condit
agression was 70% Diaz
Effective striking was 70% Condit, it wasn't obvious at first but towards the last rounds, his leg kicks were working, all through the fight it was obvious that the spinning fists and elbows made Nick think twice before commiting, and his overall standup was well built to counter Nick's striking.

At the end, Nick was so desperate that he even tried to change his gameplan, throwing kicks, trying to take it to the ground. It was a clear sign that he realized his first strategy wasn't going to work. The kicking and takedown were clearly improvised and not part of the game plan, or maybe a game plan B at best.

Condit clearly won that fight. He was in danger at times because Nick hits hard and fast, but he kept composed all through the fight and stuck to his gameplan that obviously worked.


----------



## Jumanji

Walker said:


> You do realize that most fighters are told to hype the fight up and say anything leading up to the fight to try and hype the fight regardless of their actual gameplan- right?


Yeah I understand that, but I was just expecting different from Carlos thats all.

I mean don't get me wrong he fought a good fight with a good gameplan. I was just expecting fight of the year status, not throw a combo then run away over and over again.


----------



## Rusty

cursedbat said:


> Its funny how easy it is to figure out how many of you have absolutely no fight experience and no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> Diaz mistake was he had no corner. He should have known from before to never let the judges have it.
> 
> Ring generalship? Wake up thats the most hilarious non-sense I've heard. All of you that share that opinion are probably Mayweather fans also. Diaz RAN that coward down for 5 rounds. Carlos said he was a warrior and fought like a points artist. He threw non-effective baby shots that did no damage. Then ate a big shot and ran some more. Thats ok but dont say you are a warrior, I've lost respect for Condit.
> 
> The guys in here that are delusional just dont like Nick. If you are happy that Diaz might never fight again than you are a fake MMA fan. Diaz had GSP turned into a wannabe thug for attention thats how much of an impact he has. He made Carlos do the Stand up version of the lay and pray. Embarrassing.
> 
> Even if you had Condit winning by bullshit style tell me how the score could have been 4 or 5 rounds to one or none. Again Condit fought like a chump and its Diaz fault for not having a corner or finishing the fight. Even if Condit did just run a cross country marathon.


Cursedbat sucks dingalings.


----------



## cursedbat

[/B]


NoYards said:


> Being 'aggressive' and out struck (not to mention leg kicks) is not called 'winning', it's called 'walking into a trap'.


In this fight, talking all that smack before about being a warrior, throwing those baby kicks, its called being a P U S $ Y.


----------



## joshua7789

I dont get the people saying Condit ran away the whole time. Was he supposed to stand in front of Diaz and let him tee off on his dome like most of the other people Diaz fights? Yeah, that worked really well for Daley (Who is probably the hardest hitting WW in the sport and couldnt put Diaz away) and Penn (who has great striking and an iron chin as well). People seem to be mad that Condit refused to play Diaz's game. That is silly and there is no way Carlos would have won that battle if he had. Regardless of who you think won, Condit came in with a great startegy and didnt let Diaz get in his head.


----------



## Chileandude

cursedbat said:


> Its funny how easy it is to figure out how many of you have absolutely no fight experience and no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> Diaz mistake was he had no corner. He should have known from before to never let the judges have it.
> 
> Ring generalship? Wake up thats the most hilarious non-sense I've heard. All of you that share that opinion are probably Mayweather fans also. Diaz RAN that coward down for 5 rounds. Carlos said he was a warrior and fought like a points artist. He threw non-effective baby shots that did no damage. Then ate a big shot and ran some more. Thats ok but dont say you are a warrior, I've lost respect for Condit.
> 
> The guys in here that are delusional just dont like Nick. If you are happy that Diaz might never fight again than you are a fake MMA fan. Diaz had GSP turned into a wannabe thug for attention thats how much of an impact he has. He made Carlos do the Stand up version of the lay and pray. Embarrassing.
> 
> Even if you had Condit winning by bullshit style tell me how the score could have been 4 or 5 rounds to one or none. Again Condit fought like a chump and its Diaz fault for not having a corner or finishing the fight. Even if Condit did just run a cross country marathon.


TROLLOLOLOLOLOL


----------



## DrFunk

Nick is realizing that if a guy like Condit can successfully take him apart with a strong gameplan that he'd have no chance vs GSP. So what does he do to avoid certain embarassment? Whines about reffing and how he should win for running at his opponent while getting hit like a retard. For all the Diaz fans complaining about Condit running away. Condit is not the one that:

1. tried fat momma jokes
2. dropped his hands like Anderson and stopped when he got hit like a retard.
3. tried "running away" himself by attempting that weak ass takedown after getting slapped around too much

Also about that 5th round, that takedown was random and also he virtually did no damage to condit.


----------



## Gyser

Doubt Diaz is done, they will give him Fitch or Koscheck to get him back in the title picture ASAP, so we can get more trash from GSP and his street fight antics.

Talking of GSP, pleased Condit got the W for the sheer fact he was being overlooked not just by some fans, the champ but also the UFC, who wanted GSP vs. Diaz, well played Condit you deserve the spotlight.


----------



## SideWays222

hadoq said:


> how in the world Nick won octagon control? he spent 25 minutes running after Condit. Nick didn't dictate where the fight took place, if he did, it would have ended against the cage and Nick would have won a TKO.
> 
> The way condit got off the cage circling was clearly something he worked on in his camp, and it worked, frustrated Diaz and preventing him to find both his rhythm and his range.
> 
> Octagon control was 100% (ok, maybe 80%) Condit
> agression was 70% Diaz
> Effective striking was 70% Condit, it wasn't obvious at first but towards the last rounds, his leg kicks were working, all through the fight it was obvious that the spinning fists and elbows made Nick think twice before commiting, and his overall standup was well built to counter Nick's striking.
> 
> At the end, Nick was so desperate that he even tried to change his gameplan, throwing kicks, trying to take it to the ground. It was a clear sign that he realized his first strategy wasn't going to work. The kicking and takedown were clearly improvised and not part of the game plan, or maybe a game plan B at best.
> 
> Condit clearly won that fight. He was in danger at times because Nick hits hard and fast, but he kept composed all through the fight and stuck to his gameplan that obviously worked.



Cause the people that think Nick won octagon Control are also the guys that dont know what it ******* means.

Its just a bunch of lil cry babies throwing a fit. Nothing more nothing less.


----------



## Glothin

TheLyotoLegion said:


> How was that boring? Honestly, you people need to wisen the **** up and put yourself in Condit's shoes.
> 
> Who in their right mind wants to let Nick Diaz beat the shit out of them? Did ANYONE here besides me catch the Penn fight? He fucked BJ up. You're damn right Condit kept moving, and he's a ******* genius for it.
> 
> Use your ******* heads.



Use yours. It's UFC, not U-R-L-a-P-C


----------



## cursedbat

RustyRenegade said:


> Cursedbat sucks dingalings.


 Was that it bro? Was that your big come back? Did you finish mowing the lawn? You better go do that than I'll read you a bedtime story ok. Try not to cry this time little Billy.


----------



## Soakked

joshua7789 said:


> I dont get the people saying Condit ran away the whole time. Was he supposed to stand in front of Diaz and let him tee off on his dome like most of the other people Diaz fights? Yeah, that worked really well for Daley (Who is probably the hardest hitting WW in the sport and couldnt put Diaz away) and Penn (who has great striking and an iron chin as well). People seem to be mad that Condit refused to play Diaz's game. That is silly and there is no way Carlos would have won that battle if he had. Regardless of who you think won, Condit came in with a great startegy and didnt let Diaz get in his head.


I agree with the above and the below



funkasaurus said:


> Condit ran away, yeah, it's true, anyone disagreeing is just a Condit fan or Diaz hater.
> 
> But (yeah there's a but...), how can you say Nick deserved it based on that? What did you want? A toe to toe fight from Condit? You try standing in front of Diaz and tell me you wouldnt want to get the **** out of close range. Condit found the style to beat Nick. Unfortunatley it means running away. He has the title shot, Diaz doesnt. Mission successful. JMM used a similar strategy to beat Pacquiao (Major Pac fan, but **** the result). Me and the rest of the Diaz fans wont be a fan of how Condit faught, because the reason we like Nick is because he DOESNT fight like Condit did, but at the same time, the guy got a legit win over a guy we thought was unbeatable. Give him credit.


----------



## Buakaw_GSP

I think Diaz fanboys are on total meltdown hearing their boy say that he could have possibly retired after the fight he just lost.


----------



## hadoq

SideWays222 said:


> LOLOLOLOLOL
> 
> I stopped reading there. Go educate yourself on what octagon control means before you claim you know who won it. :thumb02:


dude, I'm on an agreeing streak with you these days. So many people on this thread have no idea about what "octagon control" means. The fight took place everywhere but where nick wanted it to happen. if the scoring was only on octagon control, Condit would have won all rounds. That's actually where Condit won the fight.

moving forward doesn't not mean octagon control

agression, maybe, not control.


----------



## hatchmoses

i enjoyed what i got to see, werdum and nelson put on one hell of a fight, and carlos stick with a gameplan and edged out the win. idk why diaz was crying at the end, he should of been more aggressive, but he wasnt and carlos won, i half expected him to gracious in defeat, but cant expect much from the diaz boys. still a good night overall


----------



## joshua7789

cursedbat said:


> Its funny how easy it is to figure out how many of you have absolutely no fight experience and no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> Diaz mistake was he had no corner. He should have known from before to never let the judges have it.
> 
> Ring generalship? Wake up thats the most hilarious non-sense I've heard. All of you that share that opinion are probably Mayweather fans also. Diaz RAN that coward down for 5 rounds. Carlos said he was a warrior and fought like a points artist. He threw non-effective baby shots that did no damage. Then ate a big shot and ran some more. Thats ok but dont say you are a warrior, I've lost respect for Condit.
> 
> The guys in here that are delusional just dont like Nick. If you are happy that Diaz might never fight again than you are a fake MMA fan. Diaz had GSP turned into a wannabe thug for attention thats how much of an impact he has. He made Carlos do the Stand up version of the lay and pray. Embarrassing.
> 
> Even if you had Condit winning by bullshit style tell me how the score could have been 4 or 5 rounds to one or none. Again Condit fought like a chump and its Diaz fault for not having a corner or finishing the fight. Even if Condit did just run a cross country marathon.


You really dont know shit about boxing or striking in general.


----------



## LL

Glothin said:


> Use yours. It's UFC, not U-R-L-a-P-C


I'm using my head, I know what was on the line and I knew Carlos Condit was gonna fight technical, I'm not gonna put a guy down for doing everything he could to ensure he won the biggest fight of his life like some.

It's MMA not Toughman, Condit played it smart and he tried to take him out with solid punches, kicks, spinning back fists, head kicks. Diaz is just a tough dude.


----------



## khoveraki

No, you want to see brawling. Maybe go watch Kimbo vs. Mercer or jerk off to Diaz vs Daley again.


----------



## nmlongbow

Condit won.

Diaz lost.

As a long time MMA and fight fan it was a great game plan by the winner. If you want to watch guys stand with their hands down and trade punches then maybe you should look up the Toughman Contest.

Nick Diaz just didn't have what it takes to win. I'm looking forward to Sanchez vs Diaz 2 to see Diaz lose yet again to a local fighter.


----------



## Woodenhead

hadoq said:


> dude, I'm on an agreeing streak with you these days. So many people on this thread have no idea about what "octagon control" means. The fight took place everywhere but where nick wanted it to happen. if the scoring was only on octagon control, Condit would have won all rounds. That's actually where Condit won the fight.
> 
> moving forward doesn't not mean octagon control
> 
> agression, maybe, not control.


Yeah, I'm with you - I'm surprised so many people don't understand this.


----------



## Bonnar426

Mckeever said:


> I'm angry because Greg Jackson ruined Dan Henderson vs Shogun Rua part two. I'm angry because this is the most hyped up I have been for a fight in months. There should have been knock downs, scrambles, blood, more knock downs, submission attempts and then some more knock downs. I purchased a product that was falsely advertised.


First off, how did Greg Jackson ruin Shogun vs. Hendo? 

Second, when did they fight for a second time? 

Third, Not all fights turn out the way it was advertised. You watched MMA long enough to know that.


----------



## Reforzo230

Sure Carlos won the fight, barely, but in such a boring fashion. People are gonna say "Oh but he has to, it's Nick Diaz". That's fine, win by tagging if you want. Here's my thing, to be considered great in this sport, which every fighter does, you gotta make things interesting. Whether you're a knock out artist, submission expert, or someone that delivers exciting fights. Muhammad Ali would be in disgust if he won in a performance like that. Anderson Silva, arguably the best fighter in the world, had two straight bad fights and he got major criticism for it. He realized he should stick to what he knows and let it fly. Now no one questions his reputation as the best, besides the Sonnen fans :thumb02:.

I realize that putting Condit on such a high pedestal is unfair, my bad. Congrats to Condit for winning the interim title, but if he wants to win against a great like GSP, he's gonna have to put on a much better performance than tonight. I know this is the first time Carlos has won in this "safe" fashion, I just hope this doesn't become a habit.


----------



## Rusty

cursedbat said:


> [/B]
> 
> In this fight, talking all that smack before about being a warrior, throwing those baby kicks, its called being a P U S $ Y.


Trashtalk isn't a scoring criteria numbnuts:thumb02:


----------



## Alessia

cursedbat said:


> Its funny how easy it is to figure out how many of you have absolutely no fight experience and no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> Diaz mistake was he had no corner. He should have known from before to never let the judges have it.
> 
> Ring generalship? Wake up thats the most hilarious non-sense I've heard. All of you that share that opinion are probably Mayweather fans also. Diaz RAN that coward down for 5 rounds. Carlos said he was a warrior and fought like a points artist. He threw non-effective baby shots that did no damage. Then ate a big shot and ran some more. Thats ok but dont say you are a warrior, I've lost respect for Condit.
> 
> The guys in here that are delusional just dont like Nick. If you are happy that Diaz might never fight again than you are a fake MMA fan. Diaz had GSP turned into a wannabe thug for attention thats how much of an impact he has. He made Carlos do the Stand up version of the lay and pray. Embarrassing.
> 
> Even if you had Condit winning by bullshit style tell me how the score could have been 4 or 5 rounds to one or none. Again Condit fought like a chump and its Diaz fault for not having a corner or finishing the fight. Even if Condit did just run a cross country marathon.


Well maybe if Diaz's whole game plan didn't consist of, corner someone on the cage, if that doesn't work, taunt and trash talk, if that doesn't work, act like a clown, if that doesn't work try some weak ass takedowns, and when all else fails, go throw a bitch fit about how you were robbed.

In short, Diaz needs to have a back up plan, or start a petition that for all his fights his opponent must keep his back pressed against the cage at all times or he will take his ball and go home.


----------



## TraMaI

funkasaurus said:


> Condit ran away, yeah, it's true, anyone disagreeing is just a Condit fan or Diaz hater.
> 
> But (yeah there's a but...), how can you say Nick deserved it based on that? What did you want? A toe to toe fight from Condit? You try standing in front of Diaz and tell me you wouldnt want to get the **** out of close range. Condit found the style to beat Nick. Unfortunatley it means running away. He has the title shot, Diaz doesnt. Mission successful. JMM used a similar strategy to beat Pacquiao (Major Pac fan, but **** the result). Me and the rest of the Diaz fans wont be a fan of how Condit faught, because the reason we like Nick is because he DOESNT fight like Condit did, but at the same time, the guy got a legit win over a guy we thought was unbeatable. Give him credit.


There's a difference between "running" and "Keeping damn near perfect distance the entire fight and counter striking the shit out of your opponent".

Condit did not "run" any more than any intelligent fighter does when he uses his range to impose a gameplan on his opponent. He clearly knew that Diaz was going to be stupid and aggressive the entire fight and used it against him. Diaz fell for it THE ENTIRE FIGHT. 

As many others have drawn comparisons to:

Look at JDS vs Roy Nelson. Nelson was moving forward and trying to strike the entire time but Junior clearly out landed him. Condit did the same exact thing. He may not have done it to the extent Junior did, but it was the same thign otherwise.

Look at Lyoto Machida's fights. Damn near all of them pre-Shogun 2. He does the exact same thing and he WINS.

Dominic Cruz does the same thing almost every time he fights.

Anderson Silva does it as well, but he has more power and he's more precise so he tends to knock people unconscious.

I really can't think of any more of them off the top of my head, but I know there are more fighters that do this exact thing and win all the time. Diaz was moving forward but he was moving into Carlos' gameplan. DIAZ is the one who couldn't close the distance. DIAZ is the one who was out struck. DIAZ is the one who couldn't get his shots off and was showing 0 defense. DIAZ is the one who lost that fight. This isn't coming from me as a fan of Carlos, which I am, admittedly, but from me as an MMA fan of almost 7 years and as a fighter. Diaz lost that fight in my eyes and in the eyes of the judges. Go rewatch it if you want and maybe you'll see. Diaz did almost nothing except move forward. When he was striking they were blocked the majority of the time and Carlos was gone before he could get off more than two punches. That was Carlos' game plan. Make him be aggressive. Make him come at you and pick him apart. He executed it beautifully.


----------



## cookiefritas

Having a good understanding of range, angles, and circling away from you opponent while tagging him with countless leg kicks is not running away. Condit fought a good technical fight.

I give mad props to Diaz, he has an insane jaw and I don't know how he was not limping around the octagon after all the leg kicks he ate, but at the end of the day he "lost" the fight. If he goes to the judges, it is basically a "points" match, and Condit clearly won on that aspect.


----------



## edlavis88

If both guys just went foward it would end up like rockem sockem robots, until 1 lands flush and gets the TKO... In Wat way dies that involve skill? Condit played it perfectly, tough Shit Diaz


----------



## NoYards

cursedbat said:


> [/B]
> 
> In this fight, talking all that smack before about being a warrior, throwing those baby kicks, its called being a P U S $ Y.


That's called 'not giving away your game plan' .. happens all the time. A fighter says they will stand tor to toe and then take the fight to the ground ... there's no rule that you have to fight the way you say you're going to fight ... that would be stupid.


----------



## Mckeever

Bonnar426 said:


> First off, how did Greg Jackson ruin Shogun vs. Hendo?
> 
> Second, when did they fight for a second time?
> 
> Third, Not all fights turn out the way it was advertised. You watched MMA long enough to know that.


Outstanding sarcasm and wit there mister.

I'm well aware that not all MMA fights turn out the way I had hoped, but that still doesn't mean I can't express my angry opinion on the matter does it?


----------



## Buakaw_GSP

Apparently throwing baby kicks like Condit (supposedly) did makes him a pussay but throwing baby punches like Diaz does every fight makes him straight up gangsta.... :confused03:


----------



## TraMaI

RustyRenegade said:


> You like Nick more is why you say that.
> 
> Did all the Diaz fans want Carlos to stand there and trade with him like Daley until one of them dropped? I thought mma fans didn't want it confused with toughman competitions or street brawling? Aren't you guys into bowing, touching gloves, technique over talent, and all that other respectful nonsense?
> 
> Condit had a great gameplan and executed it perfectly. He outlanded him and busted his face up. He defended all but one of Diaz' pathetic, desperation takedowns and won the fight clearly.
> 
> This fight was very similar to the Sanchez, Kampman fight except the decision was correct:thumb02:


This, sir, is a gorgeous post. Very, well said.


----------



## Woodenhead

Toxic said:


> How about MMA fans vs Fight fans. I watch MMA as a sport.


Thanks you for that, and same here. Sure, I like seeing the smash-em-up brawls as much as anyone, but I also love the technical aspects of it - of every aspect of it. Some don't. But, like it or not, it's an integral part of the sport. I, for one, love it. If I want to see simple brawls, I'll go to the bar or watch bumfights on youtube. Or watch Garcia. lol


----------



## John8204

Canadian Psycho said:


> *Dustin crushed him on the ground,* which is where everyone knows his strengths are. *How could anyone in their right mind not give him the utmost credit for that win?* *Who are you?*


Are you sure about this post? I mean really how can you give someone the "utmost credit" when even you concede he lost the stand up to Holloway. And do you think that performance is going to grant him a title shot because I hear this Aldo kid is hard to get to the ground.



Canadian Psycho said:


> And how did Fabricio look like crap? He turned Nelson into hamburger, and inarguably put more of a beating on him than the current HW champion. lol... just lol.


Fabricio put the beating on him in the first but Junior was able to keep his hands up for three rounds, Werdum wasn't he gassed badly.


----------



## cursedbat

joshua7789 said:


> You really dont know shit about boxing or striking in general.


Really? Was that it? I mean since you do we cant wait for you to explain it. You mean your biased opinion right? 

Wake up. The strikes were almost identical to count and the harder punches were landed by Nick. The first two rounds went to Nick. The last round to Nick by the takedown. Even by UFC garbage rules thats still a win and thats not even my point.

Unlike you haters I liked both guys but even more I like when a FIGHTER, not a point artist comes to war. When Ali used his head over his brawn he did it in spectacular fashion. If Diaz got knocked the **** out I would have hated to see my guy go down but would have been hyped as a fight fan. You see what I did there its called unbiased....think about it.

So no Condit didnt rule the ring not if you say you are a warrior, And no he didnt land the more effective strikes he ran, not like a warrior, like a tactician. Now thats fine but dont BULLSHIT the fans, those few of us that are not dumb or 12 years old, by saying you finish fights, you didnt come to finish shit.


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy

how does someone "run away" in a locked cage?

just curious. 

Condit took that fight, fought his fight showed amazing physical and mental performance, didn't fall for diaz's bullshit...if diaz wanted that fight he could have done something differently after his style failed him the first 3 rounds and reality set it.

great fight, thoroughly enjoyed it. i don't enjoy these internet forums though but thought i'd throw a little opinion out there. have fun guys.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

The simple fact is this... if Carlos was running away, then Nick should have done more to cut him off. As I said, I am a big Diaz brothers fan, but even I knew in the 4th that Nick simply wasn't doing enough. Taunting your opponents doesn't earn you victories, especially where they don't play into them. Condit fought the fight he needed to fight to win. I know many would have rather seen him stand and trade, but he would have lost. And in the end, that doesn't benefit him or his career.


----------



## The Best Around

I'm happy with it. Maybe if Diaz wasn't a one-dimensional crybaby and spent more time fighting than showboating, he could have won. If he actually leaves, then good riddance.


----------



## BrutalKO

SideWays222 said:


> LOLOLOLOLOL
> 
> I stopped reading there. Go educate yourself on what octagon control means before you claim you know who won it. :thumb02:


...Hey! All around nice guy with the insult, Not cool. Who dictated the pace? Who was backing who up? come on. Who controlled the center of the octagon? Jump all over my post? WTF? Rather than call you out or make a mockery of your response...I'll let it be...Bottom line it wasn't a unamious decision...Dana just said that Pierce won the fight against Koscheck. Lotta mix-ups when the it's in the judges hands but respect other members opinions without the insults. No neg rep for you...I'm above that, do the same respectfully and show you're better than that...


----------



## AlphaDawg

John8204 said:


> Fabricio put the beating on him in the first but Junior was able to keep his hands up for three rounds, *Werdum wasn't he gassed badly.*


I can't tell if you're asking or stating this. If you're asking, no. Werdum looked as good as a HW could after a high paced 15 minute fight.

If you're stating that, I recommend you watch the fight again.


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy

successful striking and aggression > octagon control

you don't have to be moving forward to have aggressive success.


----------



## MCMAP Wizzard

Diaz got battered and broken in that fight, the dude got knocked down by leg kicks ffs.


----------



## SideWays222

BrutalKO said:


> ...Hey! All around nice guy with the insult, Not cool. Who dictated the pace? Who was backing who up? come on. Who controlled the center of the octagon? Jump all over my post? WTF? Rather than call you out or make a mockery of your response...I'll let it be...Bottom line it wasn't a unamious decision...Dana just said that Pierce won the fight against Koscheck. Lotta mix-ups when the it's in the judges hands but respect other members opinions without the insults. No neg rep for you...I'm above that, do the same respectfully and show you're better than that...


I already posted the criteria for Octagon Control in this thread. Condit took it plain and simple.

Condit controlled the pace.

Condit controlled the position.

Condit controlled place.


Carlson Condit WANTED to back up. It was he game plan to pick Diaz apart while he blindly charges in making a fool of himself. This isnt a debate... its very clear that Condit took octagon control.

I wouldnt neg you for your post. I aint a bitch like some unnamed posters here.

I just wanted to correct you.


----------



## Guy Incognito

TraMaI said:


> There's a difference between "running" and "Keeping damn near perfect distance the entire fight and counter striking the shit out of your opponent".
> 
> Condit did not "run" any more than any intelligent fighter does when he uses his range to impose a gameplan on his opponent. He clearly knew that Diaz was going to be stupid and aggressive the entire fight and used it against him. Diaz fell for it THE ENTIRE FIGHT.
> 
> As many others have drawn comparisons to:
> 
> *Look at JDS vs Roy Nelson. Nelson was moving forward and trying to strike the entire time but Junior clearly out landed him. Condit did the same exact thing. He may not have done it to the extent Junior did, but it was the same thign otherwise.
> 
> Look at Lyoto Machida's fights. Damn near all of them pre-Shogun 2. He does the exact same thing and he WINS.
> 
> Dominic Cruz does the same thing almost every time he fights.
> 
> Anderson Silva does it as well, but he has more power and he's more precise so he tends to knock people unconscious.
> *
> I really can't think of any more of them off the top of my head, but I know there are more fighters that do this exact thing and win all the time. Diaz was moving forward but he was moving into Carlos' gameplan. DIAZ is the one who couldn't close the distance. DIAZ is the one who was out struck. DIAZ is the one who couldn't get his shots off and was showing 0 defense. DIAZ is the one who lost that fight. This isn't coming from me as a fan of Carlos, which I am, admittedly, but from me as an MMA fan of almost 7 years and as a fighter. Diaz lost that fight in my eyes and in the eyes of the judges. Go rewatch it if you want and maybe you'll see. Diaz did almost nothing except move forward. When he was striking they were blocked the majority of the time and Carlos was gone before he could get off more than two punches. That was Carlos' game plan. Make him be aggressive. Make him come at you and pick him apart. He executed it beautifully.



Completely wrong. Condit ran the entire fight, Lyoto and Anderson draw their opponent in to counter them effectively


The decision doesn't upset me as much as others but he was running and trying to keep Nick AWAY for as long as possible


----------



## The Best Around

Yeah, Condit boxing with Diaz really would've been the way to go. Condit was active the whole time and deserved to win. Diaz can go become a boxing can and you can go watch him there. He got what he deserved. And props to Condit for knowing better than to fall for this idiot's taunting.


----------



## cursedbat

NoYards said:


> That's called 'not giving away your game plan' .. happens all the time. A fighter says they will stand tor to toe and then take the fight to the ground ... there's no rule that you have to fight the way you say you're going to fight ... that would be stupid.


Usually, maybe, it depends, But this isnt tennis, when you say you are a finisher and a fighter, and you say you come to finish fights, and you dont do that, it makes you a fraud and a poser if thats what you built you reputation on. Just like how GSP is all of a sudden a dark tormented guy instead of a smiling Canadian from a middle classed beautiful home. Fake is fake.


----------



## Alessia

BrutalKO said:


> Who dictated the pace? Who was backing who up? come on. Who controlled the center of the octagon?


Well luckily in MMA you are allowed to utilize all of the octagon and not just the center of it.


----------



## Mckeever

Woodenhead said:


> Thanks you for that, and same here. Sure, I like seeing the smash-em-up brawls as much as anyone, but I also love the technical aspects of it - of every aspect of it. Some don't. But, like it or not, it's an integral part of the sport. I, for one, love it. If I want to see simple brawls, I'll go to the bar or watch bumfights on youtube. Or watch Garcia. lol


What isn't technical about a flying knee to the jaw? Or an expertly timed Dan Henderson right hand? Fights being incredibly slow paced and dull doesn't some how make them more technical.

Leonard Garcia is one of the fighters I despise most. An atrocious fighter with quite literally some of the worst punching technique in the sport. No thanks.

I enjoy the technicalities of this sport just as much as any one else. I don't enjoy boring fights where fighters don't perform to their natural abilities how ever (Condit, GSP).


----------



## Soakked

Mckeever said:


> This isn't about Carlos Condit. It is about Greg Jackson.
> 
> That man is poison.


Yeah tell me about, I hate GJ with a passion.


----------



## joshua7789

cursedbat said:


> Really? Was that it? I mean since you do we cant wait for you to explain it. You mean your biased opinion right?
> 
> Wake up. The strikes were almost identical to count and the harder punches were landed by Nick. The first two rounds went to Nick. The last round to Nick by the takedown. Even by UFC garbage rules thats still a win and thats not even my point.
> 
> Unlike you haters I liked both guys but even more I like when a FIGHTER, not a point artist comes to war. When Ali used his head over his brawn he did it in spectacular fashion. If Diaz got knocked the **** out I would have hated to see my guy go down but would have been hyped as a fight fan. You see what I did there its called unbiased....think about it.
> 
> So no Condit didnt rule the ring not if you say you are a warrior, And no he didnt land the more effective strikes he ran, not like a warrior, like a tactician. Now thats fine but dont BULLSHIT the fans, those few of us that are not dumb or 12 years old, by saying you finish fights, you didnt come to finish shit.


You really are an idiot. Under your same line of thinking, Mayweather should have just stood in front of guys like Marquez and Ortiz and just traded punches with them. Your assuming im bias because I think you are a dipshit, but that is incorrect. Having the ability to be evasive while countering is a huge part of some of the greatest boxers of all times game. Remy Bonjasky is one of the best kickboxers to ever step foot inside of a ring and he made a career out of not playing into his opponents gameplan and controlling the distance. I get that your a sad and angry pair of clown shoes, but dont try and shove your opinon down other peoples throat while insulting fighters. Its stupid and no one is impressed.

As for this fight, I wouldnt have been angry if it had gone the other way. It was close and I had it for Condit, but ive if Diaz had been awarded the fight it wouldnt have been a total robbery.


----------



## DrFunk

Mckeever said:


> It's called being an Anti-fighter which contributes to slowly destroying this sport.
> 
> People don't want to watch snoozefests like that where there has been months of hype of "KO this, KO that".
> 
> This thread will segregate the two types of MMA fans:
> 
> The fight fan and the Anti-fight fan. The latter I have genuinely no idea why it is they watch this sport in the first place.
> 
> I want to see fighting. Not anti-fighting.


You realize that MMA is a sport right? It's not "real fighting". As tough as MMA fighters are, they are not "real fighters". Real fighters are taught to win in the most efficient cheapest fight with no rules. This is why there's a craptop of martial arts which are effective in RL but never showcased in the UFC. In a real fight, people will eye gouge, hit in the groin/neck/back of the head/bite w/e it takes to win. So please drop that "fighter" argument crap. None of the UFC guys are fighters.

Every MMA fighter is blessed with certain things they are great at which the trainer then enhances even more. Those that have shitty footwork but have a great chin and hit hard falls under the Chris Leben/Wanderlei Silva's school of stand your ground sluggers. Those that have speed/range, great technical footwork have the advantage of playing the Machida/GSP style of fighting. If MMA was about sluggers duking it out then it would be about who has the biggest chin and hits the hardest (which is retarded). This is yet another evolution of the sport in the right direction. Fighters are showing they can fight in multiple styles and gameplans instead of bar brawling.


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy

condit was the matador, diaz was the bull...

the matador won.


----------



## deadmanshand

Sure he was trying his hardest to keep Diaz away. That's why he countered him every time he came at him. Pure terror behind every leg kick, body kick, head kick, spinning backfist, spinning elbow, knee, and punch thrown as Diaz was coming in. You could see it in his eyes as he evaded all of Diaz's combos and punched him in the ribs that he was two seconds away from pissing himself.


----------



## Buakaw_GSP

Worst outcome wouldve been Diaz winning, running his mouth and more bar room knuckleheads jumping on MMA and denying it from becoming a mainstream sport. The Lesnar, Diaz and soon to be Sonnen WWE style hype machine will run its course and the UFC will start heading towards respectability with the general casual fanbase who all think that they are angels that go to church every sunday and want to see well mannered athletes instead of trash talking gangsta stereotypes.

Thats a big reason Tebow and the NFL is so damn popular and the UFC should head that way as well.

There I said it, dunno why im pissed off atm but I am.. I dont like Diaz but I predicted him to win. So I dunno if I should be happy or sad. I guess im more happy/cocky and more annoyed that his hardcore fans had to stoop to this level of excuses from what ive seen so far.


----------



## Toxic

Guy Incognito said:


> Completely wrong. Condit ran the entire fight, Lyoto and Anderson draw their opponent in to counter them effectively
> 
> 
> The decision doesn't upset me as much as others but he was running and trying to keep Nick AWAY for as long as possible


At no point was he trying to keep Nick away he was simply trying to keep Nick from pinning him on the fence the way he did to BJ.


----------



## BrutalKO

SideWays222 said:


> I already posted the criteria for Octagon Control in this thread. Condit took it plain and simple.
> 
> Condit controlled the pace.
> 
> Condit controlled the position.
> 
> Condit controlled place.
> 
> 
> Carlson Condit WANTED to back up. It was he game plan to pick Diaz apart while he blindly charges in making a fool of himself. This isnt a debate... its very clear that Condit took octagon control.
> 
> I wouldnt neg you for your post. I aint a bitch like some unnamed posters here.
> 
> I just wanted to correct you.


...No need to correct somebody, cause others can correct you. Just post your opinion respectfully and leave it be bro. Enough is enough...end of story...


----------



## Mckeever

DrFunk said:


> You realize that MMA is a sport right? It's not "real fighting". As tough as MMA fighters are, they are not "real fighters". Real fighters are taught to win in the most efficient cheapest fight with no rules. This is why there's a craptop of martial arts which are effective in RL but never showcased in the UFC. In a real fight, people will eye gouge, hit in the groin/neck/back of the head/bite w/e it takes to win. So please drop that "fighter" argument crap. None of the UFC guys are fighters.
> 
> Every MMA fighter is blessed with certain things they are great at which the trainer then enhances even more. Those that have shitty footwork but have a great chin and hit hard falls under the Chris Leben/Wanderlei Silva's school of stand your ground sluggers. Those that have speed/range, great technical footwork have the advantage of playing the Machida/GSP style of fighting. If MMA was about sluggers duking it out then it would be about who has the biggest chin and hits the hardest (which is retarded). This is yet another evolution of the sport in the right direction. Fighters are showing they can fight in multiple styles and gameplans instead of bar brawling.


Read the above posts my friend.

You're absolutely right that fighters are blessed with unique traits and their own technicalities and tonight, Carlos Condit didn't perform to his natural ability and didn't fight like any version of Carlos Condit I have seen in the past. 

The fearless, ruthless, soul destroying Carlos Condit didn't show up tonight, some one else did and I didn't like it one bit.

Sorry if that some how doesn't make me an educated MMA fan.

It would be like Dan Henderson turning up to the Shogun Rua fight and holding Shogun up against the cage for 90 percent of the fight. THAT ISN'T DAN HENDERSON. It's not in his nature to fight like that. It isn't in Condit's nature to fight like he did tonight either.


----------



## Woodenhead

Mckeever said:


> What isn't technical about a flying knee to the jaw?
> I enjoy the technicalities of this sport just as much as any one else. I don't enjoy boring fights where fighters don't perform to their natural abilities how ever (Condit, GSP).


I saw some flying knees in the fight. Good stuff. Diaz was quick enough to avoid them, tho - dude's no slouch.

Your problem is that "boring" is a personal subjective opinion, and yet you want to try to ram it down people's throats like it's actually some kind of universal fact. Relax.


----------



## TraMaI

No, it wasn't. Maybe for the casual fans, yes, but I hope this helps educate a few of them. Carlos won on "points" by fighting a highly technical and extremely intelligent fight. This is one of those fights that true fight fans, fighters and people who actually know what the sport is about will love. It's a lot like a pitching battle in the MLB. The casual fans will turn that shit off immediately but the real fans will stick around because they understand the extremely high level of skill involved in what's going on. 

For the rest of the actual fans of MMA and not fans of the knockout/slugfest, we now know that Carlos is a VASTLY superior fighter than what most of us thought and that he stands a pretty solid chance of actually beating GSP. He showed the huge intangibles that go into fighting in the highest level of this sport and he displayed the knowledge that a true contender has to have. Will the casual fans recognize this right now, when the UFC is pretty much brand new to the world again with it's FOX deal? Hell no they won't. But it WILL convert some of them into being real fans of MMA. That, in my opinion, is worth the couple of fans they may lose for a week who will come crawling back the next time two giant heavyweight sluggers are lined up to try and bash each others skulls in. 

And besides, they have PLENTY of highlight reel shit to show off for Condit. Add to it that this was actually a PPV, not free, and there WERE a lot of KO/Slugfests/subs tonight and I don't think it's going to hurt anything.


----------



## Buakaw_GSP

I still dont get how people say that Diaz dictated the pace when Condit was basically doing stuff at a higher gear than Diaz the whole fight. Movement was faster, punching came faster, and kicks came faster. Diaz has a heart of a lion but any real guy with experience would tell you that pat pat pat boxing style has weaknesses that can easily be exploited if you figure it out and stick to it.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

John8204 said:


> Are you sure about this post? I mean really how can you give someone the "utmost credit" when even you concede he lost the stand up to Holloway. And do you think that performance is going to grant him a title shot because I hear this Aldo kid is hard to get to the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> Fabricio put the beating on him in the first but Junior was able to keep his hands up for three rounds, Werdum wasn't he gassed badly.


One can't concede a point he doesn't even raise. First rule of debate.

And no, Fabricio did not 'gas badly'. I really have no clue which fight you were watching. I don't mean to come off as rude, but I don't see where Werdum gassed at any point, let alone badly. I think most would agree he looked quite good tonight.


----------



## Hazflo

i don't think it was a bad decision at all. 
fights are judged on EFFECTIVE STRIKING, grappling, aggression and octagon control in that hierarchy. 

so you can walk guys down as much as you want but unless your hitting him at least as much as his hitting (which Diaz wasn't) you your gonna lose a decision everyday of the week


----------



## Zubuis

I would say out of both fighters, I preferred Condit. But once again, the main event, which was so extremely hyped, "Two Warriors" etc was really a lackluster fight, not very entertaining/interesting/etc. 

I'm not really one of those people who expects people to fight like its a bar fight and just stand infront of each other, beating each other senselessy.

But this fight really just wasnt that competitive, kudo's to Condit for a good gameplan, but I dont really think these type of fights are good for growing the sport. There was no back and forth action really. 

Maybe its just me but I just find the main events to be so completely lackluster. UFC hypes the shit out of the main events and not so much on the other fights and the main events for the most part arent very exciting/entertaining/interesting.

Sometimes I wonder when I watch these fights why so often none of the fighters show any type of urgency. Do they really not know that they are losing the rounds? Sometimes I wish they showed the scores between the rounds, maybe it would make the fighters fight more urgent and maybe it would be more exciting. 

I'm just babbling on at this point, not really trying to bitch about MMA, just find it dissapointing.

Edit - Think I'm more dissapointed with how the UFC hypes the fights rather than any one particular fighter putting the best gameplan to win the fight.


----------



## deadmanshand

Hazflo said:


> i don't think it was a bad decision at all.
> fights are judged on EFFECTIVE STRIKING, grappling, aggression and octagon control in that hierarchy.
> 
> so you can walk guys down as much as you want but unless your hitting him at least as much as his hitting (which Diaz wasn't) you your gonna lose a decision everyday of the week


Unless you're Leonard Garcia.


----------



## Woodenhead

TraMaI said:


> No, it wasn't. Maybe for the casual fans, yes, but I hope this helps educate a few of them. Carlos won on "points" by fighting a highly technical and extremely intelligent fight. This is one of those fights that true fight fans, fighters and people who actually know what the sport is about will love. It's a lot like a pitching battle in the MLB. The casual fans will turn that shit off immediately but the real fans will stick around because they understand the extremely high level of skill involved in what's going on.
> 
> For the rest of the actual fans of MMA and not fans of the knockout/slugfest, we now know that Carlos is a VASTLY superior fighter than what most of us thought and that he stands a pretty solid chance of actually beating GSP. He showed the huge intangibles that go into fighting in the highest level of this sport and he displayed the knowledge that a true contender has to have. Will the casual fans recognize this right now, when the UFC is pretty much brand new to the world again with it's FOX deal? Hell no they won't. But it WILL convert some of them into being real fans of MMA. That, in my opinion, is worth the couple of fans they may lose for a week who will come crawling back the next time two giant heavyweight sluggers are lined up to try and bash each others skulls in.
> 
> And besides, they have PLENTY of highlight reel shit to show off for Condit. Add to it that this was actually a PPV, not free, and there WERE a lot of KO/Slugfests/subs tonight and I don't think it's going to hurt anything.


Perfect post.:thumbsup:


----------



## DrFunk

Mckeever said:


> Read the above posts my friend.
> 
> You're absolutely right that fighters are blessed with unique traits and their own technicalities and tonight, Carlos Condit didn't perform to his natural ability and didn't fight like any version of Carlos Condit I have seen in the past.
> 
> The fearless, ruthless, soul destroying Carlos Condit didn't show up tonight, some one else did and I didn't like it one bit.
> 
> Sorry if that some how doesn't make me an educated MMA fan.
> 
> It would be like Dan Henderson turning up to the Shogun Rua fight and holding Shogun up against the cage for 90 percent of the fight. THAT ISN'T DAN HENDERSON. It's not in his nature to fight like that. It isn't in Condit's nature to fight like he did tonight either.


I can appreciate people that don't like certain "style" of fighting everyone's taste is different. Personally i cannot stand people that take someone down and have absolutely no idea how to improve positioning let alone do damage.

That being said, Condit actually really scared me tonight. He's shown great versatility and is a much more "complete" mma fighter than ever before. The discipline and composure he showed while executing the game plan, showed another side of Condit which GSP should be very worried about.

We all know the "killer" side of Condit which is why he's such a dangerous striker but now we also know he can exploit his opponents weakness just as well as GSP has done with his past opponents. If you're GSP I'd be much more worried about Condit than Diaz, cause at least with Diaz you know what he's going to do.


----------



## AmdM

Guy Incognito said:


> Completely wrong. *Condit ran the entire fight, Lyoto and Anderson draw their opponent in to counter them effectively*
> 
> 
> The decision doesn't upset me as much as others but he was running and trying to keep Nick AWAY for as long as possible


This!!!!

I'm amazed people can't tell the diference.
FFS Condit was running like a bitch!


----------



## Cerroney!

I thought Condit won and I was happy to see that the name DIAZ doesn't affect the final decision as I thought it would be.

Carlos had a solid gameplan and put a solid display of mental strength after all the mocking Diaz did in the entire fight. Any other fighter, maybe, would ended up brawling with Nick and that probably would taking the best out of him and his gameplan. It was a great fight from Condit.

The gameplan was effective even though it wasn't the most impressive one.

If Diaz couldn't keep his range in this fight with Condit, I hardly doubt that he would pass GSP.

I don't think it was a robbery, but I was watching some judges cards and I don't think it was a 49-46 fight, though. I've got Diaz winning the first and final round and Carlos winning the second, the third and the fourth. Weird calling by the judges (not by Cecil Peoples who everyone knows is crap).

I don't know if I want to see Condit against GSP on November. I'll rather have him facing someone around June or so.


----------



## TraMaI

Guy Incognito said:


> Completely wrong. Condit ran the entire fight, Lyoto and Anderson draw their opponent in to counter them effectively
> 
> 
> The decision doesn't upset me as much as others but he was running and trying to keep Nick AWAY for as long as possible


Fantastic argument.


Oh wait, no it isn't *BECAUSE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT CONDIT JUST ******* DID!*

How you can't see that is just beyond me. Yes, Condit was backing away but he was leading Diaz into punches and kicks the entire damn time.

(edit: AmdM, u mad?)


----------



## SideWays222

BrutalKO said:


> ...No need to correct somebody, cause others can correct you. Just post your opinion respectfully and leave it be bro. Enough is enough...end of story...


And people do correct me. Its why i joined this forum. To get educated.

It just happens im the one that is correct in this matter.


----------



## John8204

Canadian Psycho said:


> One can't concede a point he doesn't even raise. First rule of debate.
> 
> And no, Fabricio did not 'gas badly'. I really have no clue which fight you were watching. I don't mean to come off as rude, but I don't see where Werdum gassed at any point, let alone badly. I think most would agree he looked quite good tonight.


Maybe I should watch the fight again, but I saw hands down, open mouth and stumbling after the first, between the 2nd and 3rd he was hanging on the cage.

As for your other point about Dustin, watch the post fight press conference, he doesn't think he's ready he doesn't want the shot.

And for your third point, when you use the term "utmost" that means to the greatest degree, but even you needed to quantify the performance by distinguishing between the fight on it's feet and on the ground. Seems like a massive contradiction.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Carlos just said it perfectly. 

'If I had fought Diaz's fight, it'd be him sitting here with this belt and not me.'

End of story.


----------



## Rygu

I'd love if someone took that not-so-epic rant of Diaz after the fight and make a mix out of it and put it on youtube.


----------



## MikeHawk

Mckeever said:


> Read the above posts my friend.
> 
> You're absolutely right that fighters are blessed with unique traits and their own technicalities and tonight, Carlos Condit didn't perform to his natural ability and didn't fight like any version of Carlos Condit I have seen in the past.
> 
> The fearless, ruthless, soul destroying Carlos Condit didn't show up tonight, some one else did and I didn't like it one bit.
> 
> Sorry if that some how doesn't make me an educated MMA fan.
> 
> It would be like Dan Henderson turning up to the Shogun Rua fight and holding Shogun up against the cage for 90 percent of the fight. THAT ISN'T DAN HENDERSON. It's not in his nature to fight like that. It isn't in Condit's nature to fight like he did tonight either.


Tonight was like any other Condit I've ever seen. He was just matched against a higher caliber opponent than he's used to. Obviously he's not going to be able to go beast mode on Diaz like he usually does. People tend to look better when they're fighting opponents who aren't as skilled as they are.

If Carlos would've connected cleanly enough with one of his power shots, I'm sure we would've seen the killer come out and finish Diaz.


----------



## Mckeever

Woodenhead said:


> I saw some flying knees in the fight. Good stuff. Diaz was quick enough to avoid them, tho - dude's no slouch.
> 
> You're problem is that "boring" is a personal subjective opinion, and yet you want to try to ram it down people's throats like it's actually some kind of universal fact. Relax.


I apologise for the aggression, but you know how it is when you have been waiting for some thing for months with such high expectations and then when that moment arrives, it fails to deliver on all accounts.

It's like being starving all day long and craving some Mcdonalds and then when you arrive at Mcdonalds and order your food, you open up a giant turd sand which.


----------



## Cerroney!

AmdM said:


> This!!!!
> 
> I'm amazed people can't tell the diference.
> FFS Condit was running like a bitch!


Khalib Starnes run like a bitch, Condit was avoiding brawling with Diaz but been carefull to still make it some damage to Diaz. You just really don't see all the kicks and punches Condit land to Diaz? That's weird, it seems that you and me saw a different fight.


----------



## Mckeever

MikeHawk said:


> Tonight was like any other Condit I've ever seen. He was just matched against a higher caliber opponent than he's used to. Obviously he's not going to be able to go beast mode on Diaz like he usually does. People tend to look better when they're fighting opponents who aren't as skilled as they are.
> 
> If Carlos would've connected cleanly enough with one of his power shots, I'm sure we would've seen the killer come out and finish Diaz.


No. Is Jake Ellenberger not a high quality opponent? Jake Shields? Martin Kampmann?

Carlos Condit didn't fight like Carlos Condit tonight. He fought as some kind of Greg Jackson boring prototype.


----------



## AmdM

Cerroney! said:


> Khalib Starnes run like a bitch, *Condit was avoiding brawling with Diaz *but been carefull to still make it some damage to Diaz. You just really don't see all the kicks and punches Condit land to Diaz? That's weird, it seems that you and me saw a different fight.


Yet managed to look like a bitch while doing it! :thumbsup:


----------



## Woodenhead

It's OK man - I get even worse sometimes. lol


----------



## cursedbat

joshua7789 said:


> You really are an idiot. Under your same line of thinking, Mayweather should have just stood in front of guys like Marquez and Ortiz and just traded punches with them. Your assuming im bias because I think you are a dipshit, but that is incorrect. Having the ability to be evasive while countering is a huge part of some of the greatest boxers of all times game. Remy Bonjasky is one of the best kickboxers to ever step foot inside of a ring and he made a career out of not playing into his opponents gameplan and controlling the distance. I get that your a sad and angry pair of clown shoes, but dont try and shove your opinon down other peoples throat while insulting fighters. Its stupid and no one is impressed.
> 
> As for this fight, I wouldnt have been angry if it had gone the other way. It was close and I had it for Condit, but ive if Diaz had been awarded the fight it wouldnt have been a total robbery.


No I think you are biased and a dip shit now. Before I didnt have enough information to go on but now yes. And no I thought Mayweather should have noticed he was in trouble with Ortiz, and did a classless move like hit him when the dumb ref hadnt started the fight yet. Thats a real fighter. And yes I think Mayweather is a great defensive fighter who is boring as a rock. I hate that fighter it has nothing to do with whats great about the art of boxing. Just as I have no respect for any fighter that comes to lay, stall or anything but finish an opponent, with skill and technical ability. Great fighters have a plethora of differently styled fights, its like a song its always changing, but they still possess certain qualities that make them entertaining.

I couldnt give a damn that Diaz lost and hes one of my guys for just the reasons outlined already. So listen close because I know you need to get to sleep I dont want you to get confused again.

There are enough guys who fight like P u $ $ y s just to win and get paid. When you get a real man in there who has skill and is willing to lay it all on the line, thats valuable and should be held up. Carlos, I thought was that guy also, and he claimed to be that guy. And in the end in the biggest fight for him he was a fraud. He didnt bring a war he brought a race. He went for point strategy. He was like every other fighter trying to do just do enough to win. Now again dont get lost in the words stay with me, in this particular instance that makes him a poser. A fake. Of coarse you dont have a problem with that but I do.

And besides that Diaz won the first two rounds and the last. Now if you need any thing else let me know thats what I'm here for. I could tell you a story about training at AKA, watching the Leonard Hearns fight on wide world of sports, girls, anything that might help you. Just ask.


----------



## Alessia

AmdM said:


> Yet managed to look like a bitch while doing it! :thumbsup:


Only one that looked like a bitch, was the one whining after the fight. :hug:


----------



## NoYards

This Diaz bitching is stupid. 

Condit won, and he deserved it.

He should have had the original shot at GSP (note: GSP fan and I think Condit is a bigger challenge for GSP) 

He got screwed over to give Dial all the opportunities and he finally came out on top/

Congratulation Carlos, nice fight ... the GSP fight will be a very interesting test of great fighters with great game plans.

It's not going to be a street fight, it will be an intelligent display of martial arts ... so those who believe MMA is suppose to be pure brawling can save their money and watch the WWE TLC PPV.


----------



## Cerroney!

Mckeever, my man, how could you predict that this fight would take place at the pace that Diaz wanted it?

Carlos and Jackson's MMA gameplan was effective, but yet not impressive. I know what you're trying to say but when it's a fight for the title, something you've work for your entire life to get to this opportunity, of course you'll have to make some adjustments to YOUR game and trying to get the rivals game to the limit and that was Condid dit.

If I would of like to see a brawl? Of course.
If I would like to see a knockout? Of course.

But I can't judge Condit gameplan because it was that of him getting his ass kicked.

And I respect that.

I'm sorry, you're certainly a Diaz fan and I'm a Condit one but there's a point when you can understand why it happened and just take it easy.


----------



## Cerroney!

AmdM said:


> Yet managed to look like a bitch while doing it! :thumbsup:


I don't think he look like a bitch. I think he look like a legit smart fighter with a solid gameplan. Period.

I can understand that you dislike the gameplan, of course, you're a Diaz fan, but you can't discredit all the damage, the intensity and the tenacity that Condit put it in this fight.

I suggest you to watch Starnes/Quarry and rewatch Diaz/Condit and you'll see the difference between running away and avoiding the other fighter gameplan.

It's just like if you're a wrestler and you try to put a striker on the ground. It's not flashy, it's not impressive, but it's effective and that's what happened tonight.


----------



## joshua7789

cursedbat said:


> No I think you are biased and a dip shit now. Before I didnt have enough information to go on but now yes. And no I thought Mayweather should have noticed he was in trouble with Ortiz, and did a classless move like hit him when the dumb ref hadnt started the fight yet. Thats a real fighter. And yes I think Mayweather is a great defensive fighter who is boring as a rock. I hate that fighter it has nothing to do with whats great about the art of boxing. Just as I have no respect for any fighter that comes to lay, stall or anything but finish an opponent, with skill and technical ability. Great fighters have a plethora of differently styled fights, its like a song its always changing, but they still possess certain qualities that make them entertaining.
> 
> I couldnt give a damn that Diaz lost and hes one of my guys for just the reasons outlined already. So listen close because I know you need to get to sleep I dont want you to get confused again.
> 
> There are enough guys who fight like P u $ $ y s just to win and get paid. When you get a real man in there who has skill and is willing to lay it all on the line, thats valuable and should be held up. Carlos, I thought was that guy also, and he claimed to be that guy. And in the end in the biggest fight for him he was as fraud. He didnt bring a war he brought a race. He went for point strategy. He was like every other fighter trying to do just do enough to win. Now again dont get lost in the words stay with me, in this particular instance that makes him a poser. A fake. Of coarse you dont have a problem with that but I do.
> 
> And besides that Diaz won the first two rounds and the last. Now if you need any thing else let me know thats what I'm here for. I could tell you a story about training at AKA, watching the Leonard Hearns fight on wide world of sports, girls, anything that might help you. Just ask.


Internet tough guy sitting here calling a professional fighter a *****. Funny stuff. You seriously wanted Condit to just stand in front of Diaz? That is incredibly stupid and shows exactly how much you really know about striking in combat athletics. Well, maybe they can book Diaz/Leonard Garcia for his next fight, that seems to be what you are interested, as opposed to a fighter who comes in with the only actual gameplan that will allow him to win a particular fight. 

It is very unlikely that Condit could have won this fight any other way. What he did was follow an intelligent gameplan, what you wanted him to do was stand in front of Diaz and get picked apart by a superior boxer. You are an ignorant douche bag, but my guess is that you would still be an ignorant douche bag if Diaz had won this fight, so its a wash either way.


----------



## Rusty

Disagree with the ts. I found this card terribly exciting.


----------



## MikeHawk

Mckeever said:


> No. Is Jake Ellenberger not a high quality opponent? Jake Shields? Martin Kampmann?
> 
> Carlos Condit didn't fight like Carlos Condit tonight. He fought as some kind of Greg Jackson boring prototype.


You can't fight balls out in a 5 rounder against someone like Diaz, I don't think you understand that. Ellenberger, Shields, and Kampmann don't put the same kind of aggression and pace on that Diaz does.

Condit was either going to fight smart or lose. As a Condit fan, I appreciate that. Maybe you don't like him?


----------



## Walker

Mckeever;1546768 said:


> It's like being starving all day long and craving some Mcdonalds and then when you arrive at Mcdonalds and order your food, you open up a giant turd sand which.


First off if you crave "food" then you should never eat at McDonald's and if you do then you should always expect a "turd" sandwich.


----------



## TraMaI

AmdM said:


> Yet managed to look like a bitch while doing it! :thumbsup:



To me you saying this is nothing more than someone saying "Oh that guy sucks at baseball because he can't hit homeruns" or "This guy sucks at basketball because he can't dunk." There are fine intricacies to every sport. Where you are now is on the cusp of the largest one in ours. The people who get over that hill become real fans of Mixed Martial Arts. The people who don't are forever going to be fans of the slugfest and fans of the knockout. Don't worry about that if you don't get over it, there are a lot of them here. Just don't expect to ever have an opinion be validated on a forum full real of MMA fans. It's why we chastise places like Sherdog. We consider ourselves here to be held to higher standard than just casual fans. Again, there's nothing wrong with being a casual fan, a fan of knockouts or a fan of slugfests. Nothing at all. I'm not trying to insult you or trying to troll your or bait you or anything like that. I'm just saying that most of the people here, our regular users, come to this place because they expect a higher level of knowledge than places like Sherdog and acting like that will get you nowhere here.

This isn't a street fight, it's a sport. Either get over it, get some MMA IQ or go watch Bum Fights 4: Meth Heads On The Beach because you (and others like you) acting like this do nothing but make yourself look unintelligent about the sport. This is not the forum for that.


----------



## Woodenhead

I prefer a giant douche to a turd sandwich.


----------



## chosenFEW

Mckeever said:


> **** you Greg for turning a FOTY candidate into a a game of tag and run.
> 
> **** you Greg for turning the Natural Born Killer into a safety first fighter.
> 
> **** you Greg for ruining GSP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **** you Greg Jackson.


you know whats funny? during primetime when the cameras were on he said every round we're going to go for the kill. LMAO

Yeah right GREG!


----------



## TraMaI

Just going to leave this here:


----------



## nmlongbow

The slow headed punk from Stockton has always complained about not getting paid enough and not getting the big fights but when he finally gets a shot at the big time, he loses and then decides to retire.

Nick just fought a better fighter from a much better camp.

Maybe the amateur triathlon circuit will pay better.


----------



## beardsleybob




----------



## Bonnar426

It does screw up their big money maker. Everyone wanted to see GSP vs. Diaz. Condit ruined that.


----------



## edlavis88

I bet fightmetric and compustrike will show Condit throwing and landing more strikes... which would be impressive for a guy who is running away for 25 mins


----------



## TraMaI

edlavis88 said:


> I bet fightmetric and compustrike will show Condit throwing and landing more strikes... which would be impressive for a guy who is running away for 25 mins


http://hosteddb.fightmetric.com/fights/index/3769

Not running, baiting. Huge difference.


----------



## Trix

I'm just glad someone finally decided NOT to move straight back against Diaz & get stuck on the cage where Diaz could maul them.

If only BJ & Daley avoided being backed into the cage Diaz might have realized how weak the technical aspect of his striking is sooner.

:thumbsup:


----------



## TheReturn

-Condit won
-Fight was a huge letdown 
-Condit didnt come to kill anything


----------



## TraMaI

Bonnar426 said:


> It does screw up their big money maker. Everyone wanted to see GSP vs. Diaz. Condit ruined that.


Everyone should want to see Carlos/GSP now. It's very, very apparent to me now that GSP would've handled the hell out of Diaz. Look at GSP's last fights and what he's done. He did almost the exact thing that Carlos did to Diaz to both Shields and Koscheck. GSP is and EXTREMELY smart fighter and he would not have fallen into the Diaz trap any more than Condit did. Condit on the other hand poses a LOT more problems to GSP than Diaz did. He has good power, he's very fast, he uses his range, he has great cardio and never EVER stagnant off of his back. When Condit is on his back if he isn't trying to break something he's trying to choke you and if he isn't trying to choke you he's elbowing you in the mouth the ENTIRE TIME. If Condit employs almost the exact strategy that he used against Diaz against GSP he can beat him. If he changes it up, gets more aggressive but still conservative, he can knock him out. That Jab, leg kick, head kick combo that Condit nailed Diaz with? I have a good feeling that would've at the very least put GSP on the floor, if not put him out cold.


----------



## nmlongbow

I think Condit vs GSP will be a much better fight for the fans. GSP wanted Diaz because he would be much easier to plan for.

Condit has the best chance of any WW to defeat GSP.


----------



## Ddog0587

So I guess all you Jackson haters would just stand in front to Diaz for 5 rounds :confused03:. Because Jackson put together a perfect game plan to beat Diaz....former SF champ, 11 Fight win streak and prev thought to be the no 2 WW in the world or trained the perfect fightinh Machine in Jon Jones.....who has beaten top LHW to shreds, finishing them in dramatic and brutal ways. And Jackson is bad for MMA. You know what happened to the last 11 guys who stood in front of Diaz.....if thats what you guys believe is the only way to fight be my guess and try it yourselves


----------



## TraMaI

Ddog0587 said:


> So I guess all you Jackson haters would just stand in front to Diaz for 5 rounds :confused03:. Because Jackson put together a perfect game plan to beat Diaz....former SF champ, 11 Fight win streak and prev thought to be the no 2 WW in the world or trained the perfect fightinh Machine in Jon Jones.....who has beaten top LHW to shreds, finishing them in dramatic and brutal ways. And Jackson is bad for MMA. You know what happened to the last 11 guys who stood in front of Diaz.....if thats what you guys believe is the only way to fight be my guess and try it yourselves


Lest we forget that Condit, since entering the UFC, is 5-1 with 3 Knock outs. Two of those coming in the first round and the third being one of the most exciting comebacks in recent memory (Condit vs MacDonald, UFC 115).


----------



## halifaxdonair

i haven't seen someone this afraid to get hit since Lesnars last fight. i thought it was a fairly close fight but the stats show what i thought; ineffective leg kicks are scored too highly. i had diaz winning 1,2, and 5. if a wrestler took condit down and sat in guard, they would win that round. which is why gsp is going to win.


----------



## Machida Karate

People need to get over the fact that Carlos had the perfect game plan, and Diaz, had the same old, (put u against the fence and land body shots) shit we seen a lot, he is a good boxer but didnt try to do anything else, other then a few fail takedowns, Carlos was kicking the crap out of his legs, and even landed a lot more punches...

He did what he should have done and played smart... WAR CONDIT!


----------



## Ddog0587

and a lot of people would agree Condit is one of the more exciting fighters at WW no? And hes been with Jackson since he was 15.......a pure Jackson product:confused03:. Some people are just severely butthurt.:thumbsup:


----------



## xeberus

Greg Jackson is pretty much a genius. Right after the fight started I was like "omg is condit going to out point Diaz with kicks and movement for 25minutes" and he did.

I think Diaz is the better fighter of the two, but mma has evolved beyond that. Greg Jackson's camp is a massive advantage and it showed tonight. I really like condit and I'm glad he's fighting gsp and I feel he put on one hell of a performance.


----------



## T.Bone

Hasn't Condit been training at Jacksons for years? 

I'm pretty sure he finished Stun Gun and Rory under Greg's tutelage at least, not to mention the dozens of finishes he's got under his belt from previous fights.

This was undoubtedly the toughest opponent of his career and he fought accordingly.


----------



## grnlt

*Greg Jackson ruining mma*

This can maybe be put in another thread but let me start off by saying I thought Diaz would lose but not like this. I thought Diaz actually won but condit landed some good strikes but seriously a very poor main event. I get the whole do what you have to do to win but Greg Jackson treats mma like a tae kwon do match where you just out point someone rather than finish. I really think anyone from Jackson's camp outside of bones will not draw many buys and in all honesty I hope they implement a gameplay to finish not just to out point


----------



## TraMaI

halifaxdonair said:


> i haven't seen someone this afraid to get hit since Lesnars last fight. i thought it was a fairly close fight but the stats show what i thought; ineffective leg kicks are scored too highly. i had diaz winning 1,2, and 5. if a wrestler took condit down and sat in guard, they would win that round. which is why gsp is going to win.


First, not necessarily right. Carlos is incredibly active off his back both with strikes and submission attempts as well as sweeps.


Second, interesting factoid from tonight:



> Carlos Condit took the interim welterweight title at UFC 143 and took another distinction as well. He landed 68 leg kicks against Nick Diaz, setting the record for most leg kicks landed in a single fight. The previous record was 49, landed by Donald Cerrone in his fight against Vagner Rocha, which remains the record for a three-round fight. Through three rounds, Condit had only landed 42 leg kicks.


----------



## Sekou

Fight of the Year in my opinion :thumbsup:

Condit was smart and has more accurate striking, even if he "ran" alot

some sick muay thai/taekowndo in this fight too :thumbsup:


----------



## marcthegame

I hate Greg Jackson, but the man is a smart. Me personally i hate it when a fighter fights safe from a entertainment prospective. However if i was a fighter i would fight safe/greg jackson way. At the end of the day if you can win and be in good health after the fight, y not?

Plus its hard to blame Greg Jackson when he has coach Jon Jones, Evans when he was koing people, etc.


----------



## T.Bone

grnlt said:


> This can maybe be put in another thread but let me start off by saying I thought Diaz would lose but not like this. I thought Diaz actually won but condit landed some good strikes but seriously a very poor main event. I get the whole do what you have to do to win but Greg Jackson treats mma like a tae kwon do match where you just out point someone rather than finish. I really think anyone from Jackson's camp outside of bones will not draw many buys and in all honesty I hope they implement a gameplay to finish not just to out point


Four decisions in 33 fights... 13 wins by Ko, 13 wins by Submission. 

Greg was his coach for most of those fights.


----------



## Budhisten

*Merged both "We hate Greg Jackson" threads.*

And what are people blaming him for exactly? His fighters fighting smart?

Last time I checked his fighters finished just as many opponents as figters from any other camps do.

He didn't turn Condit into a safety first-fighter, don't judge him on one fight. He has 13 KOs and 13 submissions for god's sake, most of them while fighting for Jackson.

We usually get these threads every time GSP fights, now we're gonna include Condit as well?


----------



## marcthegame

I had Diaz winning same with others:


----------



## T.Bone

Budhisten said:


> *Merged both "We hate Greg Jackson" threads.*
> 
> And what are people blaming him for exactly? His fighters fighting smart?
> 
> Last time I checked his fighters finished just as many opponents as figters from any other camp does.
> 
> He didn't turn Condit into a safety first-fighter, don't judge him on one fight. He has 13 KOs and 13 submissions for god's sake, most of them while fighting for Jackson.
> 
> We usually get these threads every time GSP fights, now we're gonna include Condit as well?


I know man people are quick to hate but where was the praise for Greg in Carlos's previous fights?


----------



## LizaG

Condit/GSP is a more competitive match IMO, yes Nick pressed forward, but into nothing but into some hard shots, but how can that be a boring fight what you saw? It was awesome and now we have an awesome match with GSP/Condit...

...everyones a winner


----------



## Roflcopter

Mckeever said:


> It's called being an Anti-fighter which contributes to slowly destroying this sport.
> 
> People don't want to watch snoozefests like that where there has been months of hype of "KO this, KO that".
> 
> This thread will segregate the two types of MMA fans:
> 
> The fight fan and the Anti-fight fan. The latter I have genuinely no idea why it is they watch this sport in the first place.
> 
> I want to see fighting. Not anti-fighting.


Agree totally. I'm just about done. Negative fighters are really ruining the sport for me. It's simply not entertaining stuff.

I've been bored out of my mind this year because no one ******* fights anymore. I watch this shit for entertainment, if at any point I want to do something else, like I don't know...play Skyrim in the middle of a PPV, it's not a great representation of the entertainment value of the product.


I gotta sit through endless garbage at the hope of that one matchup with two really good fighters who are going to bring the fight, and this shit happens. Now GSP 8 months later will tackle Condit to the floor and I will continue snoozing.


Call me back when something exciting happens guys, gonna go watch hoops.


----------



## Vale_Tudo

What is ruining this sport is the idiot "fans" who want nothing more than to watch somebody get knocked out.

Let Diaz go do his boxing thing. He's certainly not a mixed martial artist. He's a fighter. Nick would be great in a fight where there were no time limits, no rounds and 4 walls with no space to move. 

But with MMA rules, Carlos Condit clearly won this fight.


----------



## LizaG

Nick pressed forward into a barrage of teeps, head kicks and calcultaed counterstrikes. Condit imo got 4 rounds, if Nick is gonna leave it to the judges he can't always expect it to go his way when each round was as competetive as they were.

Condit fought the fight the way anyone facing Nick Diaz should have fought it imo


----------



## Roflcopter

Fans are ruining a sport. Here's your retard card! Congratulations!


----------



## marcthegame

See the thing I don't get is y people are bashing the idiot fans? Its not their fault the ufc hypes shit up as a big thing only to be disappointed. 

I'll be honest I have been disappointed by the ufc this year. their main focus are the idiot fans, fox deal etc. So they come with the territory. However i don't get excited for fights as i used to.


----------



## Roflcopter

LizaG said:


> Nick pressed forward into a barrage of teeps, head kicks and calcultaed counterstrikes. Condit imo got 4 rounds, if Nick is gonna leave it to the judges he can't always expect it to go his way when each round was as competetive as they were.
> 
> Condit fought the fight the way anyone facing Nick Diaz should have fought it imo


Also, why the **** are people making posts like this?

Everyone knows Condit won the fight. This topic is not about that. This topic was about Condit using a negative gameplan and turning a hyped ME into boring shit, and the general momentum of MMA going towards this direction for a long time now.


----------



## Budhisten

Roflcopter said:


> Agree totally. I'm just about done. Negative fighters are really ruining the sport for me. It's simply not entertaining stuff.
> 
> I've been bored out of my mind this year because no one ******* fights anymore. I watch this shit for entertainment, if at any point I want to do something else, like I don't know...play Skyrim in the middle of a PPV, it's not a great representation of the entertainment value of the product.
> 
> 
> I gotta sit through endless garbage at the hope of that one matchup with two really good fighters who are going to bring the fight, and this shit happens. Now GSP 8 months later will tackle Condit to the floor and I will continue snoozing.
> 
> 
> Call me back when something exciting happens guys, gonna go watch hoops.


Seriously? The last 12 months have given us some of the BEST shows the UFC has ever put on...

Stellar PPVs include:
125
126
128
129
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142

How many were not on that list? Besides the PPVs we got stuff like Kampmann vs Sanchez, we got UFC on FOX (With Guida vs Bendo on the undercard!!) and so much more...

If the matchup you're waiting for doesn't turn out awesome - don't worry - other matches will!

We've come to expect that every main event will be fireworks, when that simply isn't how things work. Two great fighters doesn't necessarily equal a great fight.

Not knowing what you're gonna get is half the excitement of the sport, who the hell expected Shogun vs Hendo to be such a war? Everybody were sure that it wasn't going past round three, and look what we got...

People have to think back further than yesterday when they complain about the product.

*EDIT:* Rofl, calm the hell down and have a civilized discussion instead of just telling people how stupid and wrong they are, that's not the point of this board.


----------



## Roflcopter

marcthegame said:


> See the thing I don't get is y people are bashing the idiot fans? Its not their fault the ufc hypes shit up as a big thing only to be disappointed.
> 
> I'll be honest I have been disappointed by the ufc this year. their main focus are the idiot fans, fox deal etc. So they come with the territory. However i don't get excited for fights as i used to.


Yeah, here I thought fans made the sport...now apparently they are ruining it because the product is becoming poor.


Remember PRIDE? Remember Chuck and Tito and Frank and BJ and all those great fights that took UFC from being nearly banished to the mainstream?

Yeah, tell all those guys that they are idiots and **** them if they don't want to watch constant negative fighting event after event. 

Hopefully karma comes and when all those fans have stopped watching, the pretentious douchebags are left with nothing but event after event of Koscheck vs Mike Pierce.


----------



## box

marcthegame said:


> I had Diaz winning same with others:



Oh but they're just fanboys, they couldn't possibly have watched the fight without bias. Diaz won 1, 2, and 5 in a lot of peoples eyes, including fellow fighters.


----------



## LizaG

Roflcopter said:


> Also, why the **** are people making posts like this?
> 
> Everyone knows Condit won the fight. This topic is not about that. This topic was about Condit using a negative gameplan and turning a hyped ME into boring shit, and the general momentum of MMA going towards this direction for a long time now.


WTF is your problem? 

I'm saying those elements made it an exciting fight, how is it negative? Because you wanted a brawl and nothing else? Because seeing this kind of striking and intelligent footwork was boring for you?

This isn't a brawl, it's about wits and skill and using your head, it isn't going to please everyone. But it was an exciting fight...it's my opinion.


----------



## Budhisten

*As I said in my previous post (Which you've rudely ignored) calm the hell down Rofl... You're not getting your point across by being super-aggressive - please don't dumb the board down by simply telling people they're wrong and need to go f*** themselves*


----------



## Roflcopter

Budhisten said:


> Seriously? The last 12 months have given us some of the BEST shows the UFC has ever put on...
> 
> Stellar PPVs include:
> 125
> 126
> 128
> 129
> 132
> 133
> 134
> 135
> 136
> 137
> 138
> 139
> 140
> 141
> 142
> 
> How many were not on that list? Besides the PPVs we got stuff like Kampmann vs Sanchez, we got UFC on FOX (With Guida vs Bendo on the undercard!!) and so much more...
> 
> If the matchup you're waiting for doesn't turn out awesome - don't worry - other matches will!
> 
> We've come to expect that every main event will be fireworks, when that simply isn't how things work. Two great fighters doesn't necessarily equal a great fight.
> 
> Not knowing what you're gonna get is half the excitement of the sport, who the hell expected Shogun vs Hendo to be such a war? Everybody were sure that it wasn't going past round three, and look what we got...
> 
> People have to think back further than yesterday when they complain about the product.
> 
> *EDIT:* Rofl, calm the hell down and have a civilized discussion instead of just telling people how stupid and wrong they are, that's not the point of this board.


Shogun vs Hendo was really the only card that was good from beginning to end. 

Diaz vs Penn was a pretty good ME, but the rest of the main card was abominable. Leben vs Munoz was decent considering the quality of fighters....other than that the other events have been mediocre to outright poor which the last three have been.


----------



## marcthegame

The real problem is the ufc is putting on to many cards eventually it will catch up. I think they will be 10 cards from december 2011 to the end if thus month.


----------



## Roflcopter

LizaG said:


> WTF is your problem?
> 
> I'm saying those elements made it an exciting fight, how is it negative? Because you wanted a brawl and nothing else? Because seeing this kind of striking and intelligent footwork was boring for you?
> 
> This isn't a brawl, it's about wits and skill and using your head, it isn't going to please everyone. But it was an exciting fight...it's my opinion.


I can care less about seeing a brawl, what I do want to see, however, is effective offensive and not negative point fighting.

Clearly, the entire fight plan was derived upon having as little actual damage dealt in the fight on the feet, and little to no grappling. 

It's essentially the same trash you see in Olympic boxing these days, the unbearable fencing like bullshit that sport has devolved into.


Condit basically took his foot and used it like a ******* wooden stick, poked Nick Diaz it with it repeatedly then ran away....awesome stuff. Worth paying 60 dollars for totally. 

Maybe next time the UFC can just get a gibbon with a stick and a tiger and a bunch of trees and shit and we can watch the gibbon jab at the tiger for 25 minutes and see if he "wins" by not getting eaten.


----------



## Budhisten

Roflcopter said:


> Shogun vs Hendo was really the only card that was good from beginning to end.
> 
> Diaz vs Penn was a pretty good ME, but the rest of the main card was abominable. Leben vs Munoz was decent considering the quality of fighters....other than that the other events have been mediocre to outright poor which the last three have been.


If that is your honest opinion you need to go watch the cards you speak so highly off. From 2006-2009 the fighting was sloppier, way less technical and even though the ME were often big fights (They still are BTW) they weren't necessarily any better than the ME of today.

We have a tendency to glorify past events and fights, we all do, problem with that is that it isn't that objective 

I personally think 2011-2012 has been the best period of fights so far, by quite a large margin.


----------



## LizaG

Roflcopter said:


> I can care less about seeing a brawl, what I do want to see, however, is effective offensive and not negative point fighting.
> 
> Clearly, the entire fight plan was derived upon having as little actual damage dealt in the fight on the feet, and little to no grappling.
> 
> It's essentially the same trash you see in Olympic boxing these days, the unbearable fencing like bullshit that sport has devolved into.
> 
> 
> Condit basically took his foot and used it like a ******* wooden stick, poked Nick Diaz it with it repeatedly then ran away....awesome stuff. Worth paying 60 dollars for totally.
> 
> Maybe next time the UFC can just get a gibbon with a stick and a tiger and a bunch of trees and shit and we can watch the gibbon jab at the tiger for 25 minutes and see if he "wins" by not getting eaten.


It's your opinion, just like I have mine...but you could have been nicer about it (just saying). No need to dump all over my opinion like I'm just trolling.


----------



## box

People need to stop bitching about shitty cards if they don't mind the play it safe technique. You're gonna get boring ass cards when people implement that technique, so live with it. I prefer a hendo/shogun, even a Mayhem/Bisping fight, or any fight where they just leave it all on the mat with no regret (notice how GSP has to apologize after all his recent fights). Dana takes care of fighters like that (ie Leben), so no need to worry about playing it safe to keep your job, unless you just suck, and you'd be cut no matter. Without fan support there is no sport, and with more Greg Jackson style fighters, you'll lose more and more fans (yes even long time HARDCORE UBER fans) not just casuals.


----------



## Roflcopter

box said:


> People need to stop bitching about shitty cards if they don't mind the play it safe technique. You're gonna get boring ass cards when people implement that technique, so live with it. I prefer a hendo/shogun, even a Mayhem/Bisping fight, or any fight where they just leave it all on the mat with no regret. Dana takes care of fighters like that (ie Leben), so no need to worry about playing it safe to keep your job, unless you just suck, and you'd be cut no matter. Without fan support there is no sport, and with more Greg Jackson style fighters, you'll lose more and more fans (yes even long time HARDCORE UBER fans) not just casuals.


Totally.


Also the lack of real competitive fights these days is alarming. Hardly any back and forth, hardly any drama....shit's been so ****ing vanilla. A real good close fight is where dude's are going back and forth and it's hard to pick a winner, not like here where nothing is happening except a bunch of leg kicks and like three punching exchanges and it's only close because of the sheer lack of shit that actually occurred in the cage.


----------



## Trix

Condit wasn't running from Diaz.

He was just staying off the fence.

Diaz is a one trick pony who uses the fence as a security blanket and can't strike in the center of the cage.

Condit showed that tonight.

Haters gonna hate. :thumbsup:


----------



## Leed

Wow.. tbh I'm surprised at how many people are calling this a robbery. I was rooting for Diaz, but the decision seemed a pretty damn obvious one. :confused02:


----------



## marcthegame

Trix said:


> Condit wasn't running from Diaz.
> 
> He was just staying off the fence.
> 
> Diaz is a one trick pony who uses the fence as a security blanket and can't strike in the center of the cage.
> 
> Condit showed that tonight.
> 
> Haters gonna hate. :thumbsup:


I don't know if you watch a lot of diaz's fight but like rogan said he does have that talent to make other fighters back pedal towards the fence. However here are some highlights of him striking center of the cage.


----------



## Rauno

I wasn't a fan of the fight and Condit's approach but not looking past the fact that it was effective and did the job and got him the belt. I dare somebody to say that the Natural Born Killer won the fight though.


----------



## LizaG

Rauno said:


> I wasn't a fan of the fight and Condit's approach but not looking past the fact that it was effective and did the job and got him the belt. I dare somebody to say that the Natural Born Killer won the fight though.


Eeeeerrrr Rauno?...I love you dearly and always will but...Condit got Round 1,2,3 and 4


----------



## T.Bone

It's funny how much blame Greg Jackson is getting. 

Nick is as much to blame as anyone. If he could've turned it into his fight he would've and it would've been a war but he couldn't and who's fault is that? Greg Jacksons?

So Carlos was backing up and moving, (which is what fighters do) is it not Nicks job to stop that from happening?


----------



## marcthegame

LizaG said:


> Eeeeerrrr Rauno?...I love you dearly and always will but...Condit got Round 1,2,3 and 4


see even u are unsure how the rounds went lol...the official judges..


rd 3..2/3 gave it to diaz
rd 5. 1/3 gave it to diaz

I gave diaz 1,2,5.Henderson,Muoz,linland,meltiech,ariel,and a lot others gave it to diaz also.


----------



## dexter0502

*143 main event leaves bitter taste...*



dudeabides said:


>


I had diaz winning by 3 rounds to 2. Based on, aggression, octagon control, meaningful strikes and sub attempts. i think he won the 1st 2 and the last round and maybe the 4th. The UFC was always about fighting and though i like carlos. he thought nothing like he usally does and instead followed jacksons fight scared approach. In pride carlos would have been disqualified for passivity after several yellow cards. I may be a bit bitter as i wanted to see diaz fight GSP but i found mtself agreeing with diaz's comments after the fight and even carlos looked a bit embarrest by the dicision.


----------



## Woodenhead

I liked this quote I read earlier:

"The fact of the matter is that Nick Diaz fights an exciting style that's meant for mid to upper mid-tier welterweights. At the elite level, guys aren't going to let you box them up along the fence and drag them into your fight. Condit was simply able to keep his back off the fence, counter effectively and out land Diaz."

Sums up my feelings right there.


----------



## LizaG

marcthegame said:


> see even u are unsure how the rounds went lol...the official judges..
> 
> 
> rd 3..2/3 gave it to diaz
> rd 5. 1/3 gave it to diaz
> 
> I gave diaz 1,2,5.Henderson,Muoz,linland,meltiech,ariel,and a lot others gave it to diaz also.


lol I personally don't feel unsure of the scores, everyone when they say what they think of the judges decision, are sure of what they say  me included.


----------



## marcthegame

Woodenhead said:


> I liked this quote I read earlier:
> 
> "The fact of the matter is that Nick Diaz fights an exciting style that's meant for mid to upper mid-tier welterweights. At the elite level, guys aren't going to let you box them up along the fence and drag them into your fight. Condit was simply able to keep his back off the fence, counter effectively and out land Diaz."
> 
> Sums up my feelings right there.


IMO BJ Penn is far more elite than Condit will ever be.


----------



## beardsleybob

marcthegame said:


> I don't know if you watch a lot of diaz's fight but like rogan said he does have that talent to make other fighters back pedal towards the fence. However here are some highlights of him striking center of the cage.


Diaz does aim for the fence. Especially against Condit, he just walked him back to the cage. Didn't even look to engage until Condit had no room to move


----------



## SideWays222

dexter0502 said:


> I had diaz winning by 3 rounds to 2. Based on, aggression, *octagon control*, meaningful *strikes and sub attempts*. i think he won the 1st 2 and the last round and maybe the 4th. The UFC was always about fighting and though i like carlos. he thought nothing like he usally does and instead followed jacksons fight scared approach. In pride carlos would have been disqualified for passivity after several yellow cards. I may be a bit bitter as i wanted to see diaz fight GSP but i found mtself agreeing with diaz's comments after the fight and even carlos looked a bit embarrest by the dicision.


1. You dont know what Octagon Control is.

2. Condit landed the more meaningful strikes and more.

3. Sub attempts?? The 1 rear naked choke he attempted and Condit reversed?? Okay yup he definitely deserved to win the fight cause of that.


----------



## Woodenhead

I can understand some people's frustrations with that style.

Personally though, I found the fight exciting, from a technical & tactical perspective, and I was on the edge of my seat. It's all just personal opinion.

I scored it the same as LizaG, except I _was_ unsure about something - I wasn't sure who won the last round.


----------



## Trix

marcthegame said:


> I don't know if you watch a lot of diaz's fight but like rogan said he does have that talent to make other fighters back pedal towards the fence. However here are some highlights of him striking center of the cage.


Paul Daley and BJ Penn outstruck Diaz in the center of the cage.

Its only when Diaz came forwards, backed them into the cage and unloaded on them that he was able to get an advantage.

Ditto with the Condit fight. Diaz did well when he had Condit backed against the cage. Condit dominated the striking in the center.

As long as a good technical striker stays off the cage & keeps the fight in the center of the octagon - they'll beat Diaz.

But, if they let themselves get stuck on the cage like Daley and BJ Penn did & try to match Diaz punch for punch and kick for kick things probably won't go their way.

I think Condit is smart for staying off the cage & he showed where the hole in Diaz game is.

Its not like Condit ran the entire fight. He only kept moving to avoid the cage & to keep the fight in the center where Diaz wouldn't do well.


----------



## TanyaJade

I'm really happy for Condit. 

Godsmack wrote a song about Nick Diaz, it's called "Cryin' like a bitch."

An absolute embarrassment and disgrace to the sport. Hopefully he stays gone and keeps his plans to retire.

That being said ago scared the fight 48-47 Condit, with Condit taking 1, 3, and 4.


----------



## SideWays222

Woodenhead said:


> I can understand some people's frustrations with that style.
> 
> *Personally though, I found the fight exciting, from a technical & tactical perspective, and I was on the edge of my seat.* It's all just personal opinion.
> 
> I scored it the same as LizaG, except I _was_ unsure about something - I wasn't sure who won the last round.


Same here.

Except i was VERY confident that Diaz won rounds 1 and 2 and that Condit won rounds 3-5 based on Octagon Control and making Diaz look like a fool in the standup. If Diaz took Condit down and ground and pounded him until the end then i probably would have favored Diaz but he didnt. He couldnt secure a submission and Condit reversed it. Diaz did absolutely no damage with his takedown. So i think its very obvious that Condit won the fight. Only people who think otherwise are the people who do not understand the UFC Scoring Criteria. I dont blame anyone for being un educated on the matter but if they dont educate themselves now then they have no right to cry next time around.


----------



## T.Bone

Just re-watched the fight. The thing that baffles me is people are claiming Condit ran the whole fight or fought tentatively. 

The only time I saw Condit do anything remotely close to "running" was when he was backed against the cage a few times and slipped out. I mean what's he supposed to do, let Nick lean on him and get all those shots off?

Other than that he just schools Nick everywhere. Nick can't even get close.


----------



## cursedbat

Damn go read again. Its like you just couldnt get the points down in that head. And you are boring my man. 

Here is a nice cut and paste of some real pro's for you to spend some time with.


----------



## SideWays222

cursedbat said:


> Damn go read again. Its like you just couldnt get the points down in that head. And you are boring my man.
> 
> Here is a nice cut and paste of some real pro's for you to spend some time with.


Lmao.. i love how Diaz cry babies are acting like that pic means anything. Half of those opinions are Bias as **** and the other half really dont matter. From fighter interviews its apparent most of them have never looked at the detailed scoring criteria. 


But... if that picture makes you sleep better at night. Then by all means.. print it out and glue it to your ceiling above your bed. So when you wake up from the nightmare of Condit out-striking Diaz you can read those tweets and convince yourself that the decision wasnt real and Diaz actually won.


----------



## SideWays222

T.Bone said:


> Just re-watched the fight. *The thing that baffles me is people are claiming Condit ran the whole fight or fought tentatively.
> *
> The only time I saw Condit do anything remotely close to "running" was when he was backed against the cage a few times and slipped out. I mean what's he supposed to do, let Nick lean on him and get all those shots off?
> 
> Other than that he just schools Nick everywhere. Nick can't even get close.


Why in the world does that baffle you???? People are butt hurt cause their guy lost so now they are crying and grieving and going in denial and making up anything they can to help them cope with what happened. It is pretty common behavior. Nothing baffling or surprising about it. :thumbsup:


----------



## tommydaone

There's some real bitter Diaz fans in here, as much as I like him Condit dominated that fight.

I didn't think it was boring at all, I don't think a fighter that was using a safety first gameplan would be throwing multiple flying knees, kicks and spinning back fists


----------



## Rygu

That pic is funny. Who cares what Buchholz, McKenzie and this Micah Miller character think? None of them are Strikeforce material, letalone UFC. Rousey is friends with Diaz so her bias is obvious, and Helwani has probably never thrown a punch in his life his opinion means nothing.

Condit beat Diaz at a *Mixed Martial-Arts* competition. Do that many people on here forget that is what the UFC is? Diaz nuthuggers are cute.


----------



## tommydaone

TheLyotoLegion said:


> How was that boring? Honestly, you people need to wisen the **** up and put yourself in Condit's shoes.
> 
> Who in their right mind wants to let Nick Diaz beat the shit out of them? Did ANYONE here besides me catch the Penn fight? He fucked BJ up. You're damn right Condit kept moving, and he's a ******* genius for it.
> 
> Use your ******* heads.


This this and this, why risk swinging for the fences against a guy who hasn't been knocked out since 2002? Perfect gameplan and it was a pleasure to watch.


----------



## madrappa

*Come on, how do you score that ******* fight for Condit*

1, 2, 3 and 5 were obvisouly diaz for me. same with everybody in the room, even the ones going for condit.


nick has been fucked by he ufc before, he is the black sheep of mma, he WON this ******* fight, no doubt AND he would have been the more exciting match up for GSP


----------



## Leed

The real question is, how do you not score it for Condit..


----------



## SideWays222

rygu said:


> That pic is funny. Who cares what Buchholz, McKenzie and this Micah Miller character think? None of them are Strikeforce material, letalone UFC. Rousey is friends with Diaz so her bias is obvious, and Helwani has probably never thrown a punch in his life his opinion means nothing.
> 
> Condit beat Diaz at a *Mixed Martial-Arts* competition. Do that many people on here forget that is what the UFC is? Diaz nuthuggers are cute.


Not to mention that most of those people have probably never read the score criteria anyway. There is absolutely nothing that makes their opinion on who won the fight any more credible then ours. We all watched the same fight and we all know what a punch/kick/etc is. So they are in no way more qualified for scoring a fight then anyone else.

I would actually guarantee that us Hardcore MMA fans know more about the scoring criteria then they do. Which is the most important thing to know when scoring a fight. There are plenty of fights i watched and in Pride the decision would go the other way but with how the scoring works in the UFC that isnt the case. But people dont realize how the scoring works.


----------



## Harness

madrappa said:


> 1, 2, 3 and 5 were obvisouly diaz for me. same with everybody in the room, even the ones going for condit.
> 
> 
> nick has been fucked by he ufc before, he is the black sheep of mma, he WON this ******* fight, no doubt AND he would have been the more exciting match up for GSP


I'm a huge Diaz fan and I really REALLY wanted to see him with some UFC gold round his waist... but you have to face facts really, Condit out struck him.


----------



## madrappa

dude, his shots were *****, he outstruck him when you count those gay leg kicks... which werent even half as damaging as the leg kicks that cyborg landed on him (who i dont consider that great) all of condits shots werent phazing nick in the slightest, i can def see him winning round 3 and 4 where he came back, round 5 diaz was pressuring him and landing the harder shots then secured the take down. 1 and 2 i dont see how you can give to condit, he did the leg kick then LITERALLY went into his jog form and ran from diaz.

diaz won the SCRAP, if they were really FIGHTING, diaz had the advantage and was always pressing the action


----------



## enceledus

madrappa said:


> 1, 2, 3 and 5 were obvisouly diaz for me. same with everybody in the room, even the ones going for condit.
> 
> 
> nick has been fucked by he ufc before, he is the black sheep of mma, he WON this ******* fight, no doubt AND he would have been the more exciting match up for GSP


Is this the first MMA fight you've ever watched? :thumbsdown:

Condit, without question, won that fight.


----------



## K R Y

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/99419-o...-vs-nick-diaz-fight-discussion-thread-43.html

Discuss the fight there.


----------



## K R Y

It was a clear Condit win in my eyes. Landed far more shots, landed the harder shots, threw more combos.

Moving forward does not = win.

Moving back and utilising footwork, and avoiding being punched does not = 'running like a bitch'. The ignorance in some of these posts is pretty shocking. Didn't expect that kinda crap at MMAF.


----------



## enceledus

Jumanji said:


> Well then don't hype the fight up so much and say your going to go toe to toe with him and not stop till one of you are asleep. That makes people spend there hard earned money expecting a crazy fight.
> 
> Sorry for my rant, i'm just pissed I paid for that shiiiit.


Wow... so you're saying that you're upset because you paid to watch, what I thought was a great fight, because there wasn't a knockout? 

This is what you should do to get back at the UFC. Go to the next live event. oh, and make sure you have on an awesome tapout shirt with lots of cool tribal logos and skulls. Then, get super drunk and boo every time there someone isn't being knocked out. That ought to do the trick. 

Honestly, if you don't think this was a good fight you're not a true fan or haven't watched enough of the sport to understand the finer points of MMA.


----------



## madrappa

i want yall to tell me how Condit won 1,2 and 5. Those were as CLEAR as rounds can get for me in MMA. Rd 1 Diaz was making condit frustrated and landing the bigger, cleaner shots. rd 2 same story. rd 5 he secured the takedown and the striking was even. condit got a robbery!!! and diaz is the better match up for gsp, so frustrating to see


----------



## SM33

Those fighter comments on Twitter are all the confirmation I need.

Condit fought negative, many of his ridiculous strikes were thrown out of range, and he got pushed back all night. Diaz landed more head and body shots. Condit landed many more leg kicks, but they had no noticeable effect. Add in the takedown and two submission attempts from Nick in round five, then IMO the difference in strikes landed is not enough for Condit to win the fight.

Besides, for everyone claiming they know the scoring criteria better than the people in this Twitter screenshot, fights are scored one round at a time using 10-point-must, not Fightmetric.

1, 2, 5 all day.


----------



## madrappa

^all truth. if you can guys can watch 1, 2 and 5 and break down exactly why you give condit those rounds i may think different, but to me it was obvious he didnt win those rounds, and thats with ALL the scoring criteria in mind.


----------



## K R Y

SM33 said:


> Besides, for everyone claiming they know the scoring criteria better than the people in this Twitter screenshot, fights are scored one round at a time and one judge actually scored it for Diaz, hence the split decision.


It was a Unanimous Decision victory 48–47, 49–46, 49–46.


----------



## MMsheA

GSP/Diaz was going to be one of the bigger match ups out in terms of hype and ppv potential so in that respect it is a bad outcome for the UFC.

That being said GSP is a big in draw by himself to sell out the arena and do good PPV numbers, Condit is the number one contender/interim champ so its not a joke match up people will boycott.

If the UFC is clever with its match making then the numbers will probably be similar to what they would have raised from the Diaz vs GsP bout anyway.

Plus it prelongs the event, gives Diaz a chance to win in style again (if they match up against someone credibly he can blow away in exciting fashion) and then the next match can be the long awaited GSP grudge match or a rematch with COndit for the title.

Either way is a winner, the only real loss is the Champ vs Champ hype had Diaz still been undefeated since winning the Strikeforce belt.


----------



## SM33

K R Y said:


> It was a Unanimous Decision victory 48–47, 49–46, 49–46.


Yes it was, my mistake. Doesn't detract from my argument anyway.


----------



## hellholming

waahhh wahhh wahhhh...


get out of here with your crying, the right man won.


----------



## MMsheA

I thought Condit put on a very skillful and classy display of MMA , ok it wasn't a slug fest but this is high level competitive sport and game plans and the ability to delivered them under pressure as well as being able to react and respond during the course of a fight when things are not going your way are all part of the game and what a top level fighter needs to be able to bring to the table.

Diaz failed to react or respond when things were not going his way, Condit came in with a plan to win the fight and did it pretty much to the letter.

I think people should be praising the stylish display of MMA Condit put on rather than bitching because the guy they wanted to win failed to do so and the war they were expecting didn't occur (its mma, a very diverse sport and there are numerous ways a fight can unfold, it would be naive to expect to predict how things will go down.)
Everyone loves a slug fest, but the UFC is serious business now....its a long way evolved from the days of Tank Abbot and promoting itself as pretty much legalised bar brawling.

I don't understand the hate, Condit didn't just stand and bang but he also didn't run and hyde, he was active and landed a lot of very good and very skilful strikes.

It might not have been the barn brawling fight of the year type war but it was not a snooze fest and I enjoyed the action personally. Diaz just wasn't good enough and failed to respond to the game plan of Condit effectively on the night.


----------



## HexRei

SideWays222 said:


> Lmao.. i love how Diaz cry babies are acting like that pic means anything. Half of those opinions are Bias as **** and the other half really dont matter. From fighter interviews its apparent most of them have never looked at the detailed scoring criteria.


Yeah, I bet Pat Miletich has never looked at "the detailed scoring criteria". lol.


----------



## Sambo de Amigo

1. The fight in my opinion wasnt boring it was very exciting just not in the same way Nelson , Werdum was. It was more of a technical affair and a battle of wits but still had lots of work rate so i was happy with the main event. 

2. Diaz IMO was the lesser test for GSP as he has one way of fighting and no plan B and has a history of struggling with guys who want to grapple with him , also i believe his striking is very one dimensional he is good at boxing but its predictable , GSP and his camp would be too prepared. 

3. Diaz won't be retiring the guy isnt a role model , he isn't intelligent and isn't good looking. In short he will have no income outside of fighting other than getting a regular job.

4. The build up probably would have been bigger for Diaz vs GSP simply because Diaz talks so much crap , but GSP will have the pulling power to gain most of the buys and Carlos is good enough to get people to be interested.


----------



## Sambo de Amigo

Mckeever said:


> **** you Greg for turning a FOTY candidate into a a game of tag and run.
> 
> **** you Greg for turning the Natural Born Killer into a safety first fighter.
> 
> **** you Greg for ruining GSP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **** you Greg Jackson.


Condit got the belt and the win bonus , Diaz looks like a whiny bitch.

I think id say THANK YOU to Greg Jackson. :thumb02:


----------



## ThaiClinchKO

Greg Jackson seems more interested in exploiting the MMA scoring system rather than the opposing fighter. That makes for potentially boring and anticlimactic fights. 

I thought Carlos had a sound fight plan but I'd like to see him engaging more at the center of the octagon. I think he would be able to do even more damage than he did with his "hit and run" style. Nick Diaz is at his most dangerous when he pins his opponents to the cage walls but it seemed Carlos was winning the exchanges out in the center.


----------



## Danm2501

Nick won that fight. Carlos didn't get going in the first 2, and Nick was beating him up standing. Landing some lovely combinations, controlling the octagon, and keeping Carlos from throwing anything significant. Round 3 was Condit's, 4 could have gone either way but I scored it for Condit, and I had Nick taking Round 5. The striking was very close, and Nick took the back and went for submissions. There's not a chance Carlos won 4 rounds. I just hope Nick doesn't retire. He's the best fighter at 170 after GSP.


----------



## Sambo de Amigo

Diaz was oustruck its MMA not boxing , Kicks are a form of striking landed more strikes he won that is all.



> Nick won that fight. Carlos didn't get going in the first 2, and Nick was beating him up standing. Landing some lovely combinations, controlling the octagon, and keeping Carlos from throwing anything significant. Round 3 was Condit's, 4 could have gone either way, and I had Nick taking Round 5. The striking was very close, and Nick took the back and went for submissions. There's not a chance Carlos won 4 rounds. I just hope Nick doesn't retire. He's the best fighter at 170 after GSP.


Diaz didnt control anything other than round 5 , pushing forward means jack shit if you're getting hit and landing less. 

Diaz is also not the 2nd best welterweight , just look at how he was nearly decapitated by Daley and easily beaten in this fight. People inflate fighters ability based upon how exciting their fights are , Jon Fitch would handle Diaz like he handles his wife.


----------



## Abrissbirne

You are fkin retarded as allways keever.


----------



## G_Land

So what does everybody think of Greg Jackson?

And take it easy guys. No need to lash out.


----------



## Abrissbirne

Jackson is very successful with great gameplans, dont see the hate. It´s not him fighting, he tells them the best way to win and fighters either do it or don´t. Thats what your trainer is supposed to do. If he tells you that you should stand and bang with the other guy, even though you have a better chance of winning the fight in a different way, than you have a bad trainer.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Danm2501 said:


> Nick won that fight. Carlos didn't get going in the first 2, and Nick was beating him up standing. Landing some lovely combinations, controlling the octagon, and keeping Carlos from throwing anything significant. Round 3 was Condit's, 4 could have gone either way but I scored it for Condit, and I had Nick taking Round 5. The striking was very close, and Nick took the back and went for submissions. There's not a chance Carlos won 4 rounds. I just hope Nick doesn't retire. He's the best fighter at 170 after GSP.


The octagon control argument is bogus for two reaons:

1) Counts for nothing if he doesn't land enough or do damage. In his pressing forward he was getting hit much more often by Condit.

2) He never was able to impose his will. Diaz wanted to bully Condit on the fence. Condit did what he needed to do to prevent that, ergo Diaz'z "control" isn't really there.

Condit won the first four and Diaz took the fifth due to the TD and sub attempt. Absolutely in no way shape or form did Diaz win anything. Hilarious how Diaz's fans are just as big of crybabies as he himself is


----------



## BrianRClover

SideWays222 said:


> Lmao.. i love how Diaz cry babies are acting like that pic means anything. Half of those opinions are Bias as **** and the other half really dont matter. From fighter interviews its apparent most of them have never looked at the detailed scoring criteria.
> 
> 
> But... if that picture makes you sleep better at night. Then by all means.. print it out and glue it to your ceiling above your bed. So when you wake up from the nightmare of Condit out-striking Diaz you can read those tweets and convince yourself that the decision wasnt real and Diaz actually won.


It's funny, because while there are a lot of great fighters and great coaches in that list, people that are just generally good at what they do. *Not one of them *has ever been in an interview that made me think to myself "wow, that's a highly intelligent person".


----------



## DrFunk

box said:


> People need to stop bitching about shitty cards if they don't mind the play it safe technique. You're gonna get boring ass cards when people implement that technique, so live with it. I prefer a hendo/shogun, even a Mayhem/Bisping fight, or any fight where they just leave it all on the mat with no regret (notice how GSP has to apologize after all his recent fights). Dana takes care of fighters like that (ie Leben), so no need to worry about playing it safe to keep your job, unless you just suck, and you'd be cut no matter. Without fan support there is no sport, and with more Greg Jackson style fighters, you'll lose more and more fans (yes even long time HARDCORE UBER fans) not just casuals.


As entertaining as sluggers can be, it's just really a coin toss. Where's the skill in that? The fighter that was 1/5 of a sec faster and connected first wins, and moreover anytime these guys go into these mindless wars the damage done to their body just shortens their career. Look what happened the Leben, Wanderlei Silva, Chuck Liddell etc.. Sure they delivered exciting Ko's but they also were on the receiving ends. IMO sluggers are very much needed as a form or entertainment for the casual fans (who don't really know or care about the intricacies of the mma game) but will never amount to much in terms of being a a champion (and even if they did they wouldn't handle the belt for long). This is why the champs of each division fight hard AND smart.


----------



## ThaiClinchKO

Abrissbirne said:


> Jackson is very successful with great gameplans, dont see the hate. It´s not him fighting, he tells them the best way to win and fighters either do it or don´t. Thats what your trainer is supposed to do. If he tells you that you should stand and bang with the other guy, even though you have a better chance of winning the fight in a different way, than you have a bad trainer.


You could win the fight and still be a loser in the eyes of yourself and the fans. If you keep playing it safe and/or avoiding any real confrontation the fans wont classify you as a true champ and neither will you probably. In order to really be successful you have to beat _the other fighter_, NOT because of an _exploit in the judging system_, but because you where the better man that day.


----------



## Sousa

LOL Butt hurt Dick Diaz fans can't take that he lost to a better fighter. Yes, BETTER fighter. Dick Diaz proves he isn't AS good as he's made out to be most of the time. Condit hurt Diaz a couple times and hell he landed a head kick ffs. He had a great game plan and was throwing insane strikes, sorry but throwing flying knees, and spinning back fists and elbows is NOT playing it"safe". Those are not safe strikes by any means. 

Blame Nick for not taking him down when he had chances,its his fault he's too stupid to change his gameplan. If he's as good all around he would have submitted Condit when he had the chance but failed to do so.Leg kicks open up takedowns and Diaz didn't go for it.Condit landed fantastic counters and Diaz had NO answer. Thats a fact, sorry but Condit isn't going to stand in the pocket and trade just because you think Diaz has better boxing and will win because its fighting HIS fight. 

Would anyone be mad had he finished Diaz with the same performance? We'd probably hear "he got lucky" or some crap like that.


----------



## Mckeever

Sousa said:


> LOL Butt hurt Dick Diaz fans can't take that he lost to a better fighter. Yes, BETTER fighter. Dick Diaz proves he isn't AS good as he's made out to be most of the time. Condit hurt Diaz a couple times and hell he landed a head kick ffs. He had a great game plan and was throwing insane strikes, sorry but throwing flying knees, and spinning back fists and elbows is NOT playing it"safe". Those are not safe strikes by any means.
> 
> Blame Nick for not taking him down when he had chances,its his fault he's too stupid to change his gameplan. If he's as good all around he would have submitted Condit when he had the chance but failed to do so.Leg kicks open up takedowns and Diaz didn't go for it.Condit landed fantastic counters and Diaz had NO answer. Thats a fact, sorry but Condit isn't going to stand in the pocket and trade just because you think Diaz has better boxing and will win because its fighting HIS fight.
> 
> Would anyone be mad had he finished Diaz with the same performance? We'd probably hear "he got lucky" or some crap like that.


Yea, as already pointed out several times, this isn't about the decision. It's about Greg Jackson sucking the entertainment out of this sport and slowly degrading it.

I scored the fight for Condit. I'll have to rewatch it again though and check it out.


----------



## Abrissbirne

ThaiClinchKO said:


> You could win the fight and still be a loser in the eyes of yourself and the fans. If you keep playing it safe and/or avoiding any real confrontation the fans wont classify you as a true champ and neither will you probably. In order to really be successful you have to beat _the other fighter_, NOT because of an _exploit in the judging system_, but because you where the better man that day.


And how exactly did Diaz win? He wasnt close to knocking him out and he couldnt finish him with a submission. If he was smart, he would have just pulled guard and submitted condit which he probably could. Condit did beat Diaz fairly convincingly. If you dont allow the other guy to hit you and outstrike him, than you clearly win the fight.
I dont think that fight was even close or controversial, do something to win it, Diaz taunted Condit instead of getting him down and submit him.


----------



## Leakler

Yea, Greg Jackson clearly sucks, it's not like Condit is the new interim champion or anything? Did we all really expect Condit to fight like BJ Penn did and stand in front of him and try to fight Diaz's fight, because that just wouldn't work.


----------



## ThaiClinchKO

Abrissbirne said:


> And how exactly did Diaz win? He wasnt close to knocking him out and he couldnt finish him with a submission. If he was smart, he would have just pulled guard and submitted condit which he probably could. Condit did beat Diaz fairly convincingly. If you dont allow the other guy to hit you and outstrike him, than you clearly win the fight.
> I dont think that fight was even close or controversial, do something to win it, Diaz taunted Condit instead of getting him down and submit him.


Yea, I thought Condit won the fight convincingly too. The only thing I missed from him was some more effort at going for a finish in the center of the octagon. It seemed as though he was winning a majority of their exchanges so why not go for a KO whilst not really risking being pinned to fence?


----------



## rockybalboa25

I had condit winning the first four. Round 1 was close. Rounds 2-4 weren't. Just because Diaz walked into punches does mean he won. To win in mma you have to hit the other guy.


----------



## LizaG

Greg Jackson knows how to get fighters to fight intelligently, and win those fights...and kudos that his track record is as decent as it is. Look at Melvin Guillards career after he left Greg Jackson!


----------



## hellholming

Condit DID try to KO Diaz. One doesn't throw spinning elbows, head kicks and flying knees hoping to get a decision.


----------



## Cerroney!

There's a huge difference between fighting SAFE and just don't be stupid enough to put your face in the middle of the octagon just to get beat up by Nick Diaz.

People needs to realize that.

Condit did everything to finish the fight. Even landed some really huge head kicks that could knock out anyone.

One thing is running away ala Starnes and other thing is just been smart and fighting the fight I WANTED to fight. Condit controlled the pace the entire fight.

The only things Nick did was taunted Condit to avoid the gameplan, rush a couple of shots once in a while and trying to get a sub in the end, but that it's not enough. At the end of the 25 minutes, Condit won that fight.


----------



## NoYards

The judges had it:

Judge Cecil Peoples had it: 
10-9, 10-9, 9-10, 10-9, 10-9 for Condit.

Judge Patricia Morse Jarman had it: 
10-9, 10-9, 9-10, 10-9, 10-9 for Condit.

Judge Junichiro Kamijo had it:
10-9, 9-10, 10-9, 10-9, 9-10 for Condit.


----------



## Andrus

Yeah, managing your fighter to adapt his gameplan as his trainer makes you a puss. I get that. And the fact that Carlos Condit won the fight because he didn't fight Nick's fight makes Jackson a puss too. :confused03:

It was a close fight, I saw Condit winning, but I imagined the scoring being a bit closer.


----------



## hellholming

if Condit would have fought any other way he would have lost. So, why are you asking him to lose?


----------



## GoodfellaGr

Oh my god people! Greg Jackson is number one! Look at his athletes! Condit performance was one of the best i've seen. Not the most spectacular but not boring for SURE! Great game plan, big confidence big heart and very clever! I am impressed...


----------



## Cerroney!

And the bashing Jackson is getting is ridiculous. If I'm the coach of a fighter, I would make a solid gameplan just like Condit did last night.

People, it's NOT GSP, it's Carlos Condit.

The WW in Jackson's MMA are just getting hated because they are smart and follows effectives gameplan.

If you want to see finishes and brawls, go get some Frye vs Takayama every once in a while. This sport has evolved to a certain point where you need more than your talent to reach the success.


----------



## aerius

This fight actually reminds me of Shogun-Machida 1, it was a surprisingly technical striking match where someone had to figure out a previously unsolvable style and try to exploit it. Condit & Jackson came up with a great plan that worked, and unlike the Shogun-Machida fight the judges didn't **** it up. I thought they were both great fights, sure I enjoy watching Shogun & Condit brutally finishing people but it's also fun to see them showcase their technical skills.


----------



## SM33

> It's funny, because while there are a lot of great fighters and great coaches in that list, people that are just generally good at what they do. Not one of them has ever been in an interview that made me think to myself "wow, that's a highly intelligent person".


It has nothing to do with intelligence, or your perception of it, and has everything to do with the fact that those people are a lot more involved and knowledgeable about the sport than we are.

Miletich, Hendo, Lindland, Munoz, Lauzon, these guys are more than qualified to score MMA bouts.



> The judges had it:
> 
> Judge Cecil Peoples had it:
> 10-9, 10-9, 9-10, 10-9, 10-9 for Condit.
> 
> Judge Patricia Morse Jarman had it:
> 10-9, 10-9, 9-10, 10-9, 10-9 for Condit.
> 
> Judge Junichiro Kamijo had it:
> 10-9, 9-10, 10-9, 10-9, 9-10 for Condit.


That is hilarious. Most people will agree that Diaz won the first two rounds but lost the third, yet Cecil and Morse had him losing the first two and winning the third. What are these guys smoking?

Kamijo was the most accurate, though I would have given Diaz the 1st.


----------



## GoodfellaGr

TheLyotoLegion said:


> How was that boring? Honestly, you people need to wisen the **** up and put yourself in Condit's shoes.
> 
> Who in their right mind wants to let Nick Diaz beat the shit out of them? Did ANYONE here besides me catch the Penn fight? He fucked BJ up. You're damn right Condit kept moving, and he's a ******* genius for it.
> 
> Use your ******* heads.


I totally agree! How's different Condit's approach than Edgar's approach? It was a genius game plan, and strategy is one of the reasons I like this sport.. If you want just a stupid brawl, go to pub and punch someone in the face. 
THIS IS A SPORT


----------



## MCMAP Wizzard

SM33 said:


> Those fighter comments on Twitter are all the confirmation I need.
> 
> Condit fought negative, many of his ridiculous strikes were thrown out of range, and he got pushed back all night. Diaz landed more head and body shots. *Condit landed many more leg kicks, but they had no noticeable effect*. Add in the takedown and two submission attempts from Nick in round five, then IMO the difference in strikes landed is not enough for Condit to win the fight.
> 
> Besides, for everyone claiming they know the scoring criteria better than the people in this Twitter screenshot, fights are scored one round at a time using 10-point-must, not Fightmetric.
> 
> 1, 2, 5 all day.


LOL? I guess getting knocked down by leg kicks constitutes "no noticeable effect" now days. Condit landed more strikes, more effective strikes, and left Diaz looking like the loser both in his face and in his post-fight antics.


----------



## Buakaw_GSP

If you watched the fight without a biased opinion, despite backing up for most of the fight Condit still landed not only more strikes, he landed more significant strikes, so its not like he didnt do anything. I can only remember about 3 right hands that hurt Condit, a slap, and that Sub attempt in the last min were the most significant things he did. But Condit got him with some hard kicks that had Diaz standing still for a second. He also got him with some nice punches and elbows. 

I was watching the PPV at a bar with some buddies and their was 1 Diaz fan sitting in the corner, who was clapping every time Diaz did something and booed every time Carlos did something. Lets just say he was booing more than cheering. and everyone was talking to each other on who won the fight while the decision was coming up. And almost everyone was agreeing that Carlos should win the fight but you never know with MMA judges. When Carlos name was said everyone started standing cheering and clapping lol.


----------



## kilik

NoYards said:


> The judges had it:
> 
> Judge Cecil Peoples had it:
> *10-9, 10-9, 9-10, 10-9, 10-9 for Condit.*
> 
> Judge Patricia Morse Jarman had it:
> *10-9, 10-9, 9-10, 10-9, 10-9 for Condit.*
> 
> Judge Junichiro Kamijo had it:
> 10-9, 9-10, 10-9, 10-9, 9-10 for Condit.


are they serious? wtf is wrong with these judges how can they give diaz the 3rd round but not the first 2. Diaz easily lost the 3rd. I cant believe this. does cecil peoples ever judge a fight right


----------



## GoodfellaGr

K R Y said:


> It was a clear Condit win in my eyes. Landed far more shots, landed the harder shots, threw more combos.
> 
> Moving forward does not = win.
> 
> Moving back and utilising footwork, and avoiding being punched does not = 'running like a bitch'. The ignorance in some of these posts is pretty shocking. Didn't expect that kinda crap at MMAF.


I agree to everything except the fact that you OVERESTIMATE ufc fans! This thread is one of the worse ive seen! So STUPID opinions. If these guys want bloody brawls, they can go see pub fights or Kimbo videos. Please guys, STOP viewing MMA cause you make me feel bad for being a fan among you


----------



## SM33

MCMAP Wizzard said:


> LOL? I guess getting knocked down by leg kicks constitutes "no noticeable effect" now days. Condit landed more strikes, more effective strikes, and left Diaz looking like the loser both in his face and in his post-fight antics.


Was there a knockdown due to leg kicks?



> are they serious? wtf is wrong with these judges how can they give diaz the 3rd round but not the first 2. Diaz easily lost the 3rd. I cant believe this. does cecil peoples ever judge a fight right


Exactly, even if the final decision is correct, when you actually dissect the scoring, these judges are completely retarded. That or they're on some healthy bribes.


----------



## MCMAP Wizzard

SM33 said:


> Was there a knockdown due to leg kicks?
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, even if the final decision is correct, when you actually dissect the scoring, these judges are completely retarded. That or they're on some healthy bribes.


I believe it was round 4, Condit lands a left leg kick and Diaz completely buckles. Probably most substantial strike of the fight IMO


----------



## doobieman21




----------



## Terror Kovenant

GSP would steamroll Diaz with ease. Diaz has absolutely nothing to threaten him with. Condit provides a better challenge.


----------



## osmium

Diaz clearly lost the first 4 and giving him the fifth is generous since he lost the striking badly in that round and didn't ever get a close submission attempt.


----------



## LL

And that should end this, it's very clear Condit won the fight, He out-struck Diaz in the first and no takedowns were attempted, then he out struck him in the third and fourth and stuffed both Diaz takedowns in the fourth.

I gave Nick the fifth and thought the first two could have gone either way but it was a close fight and hopefully this puts an end to this stupid hate Condit is getting. The proof is there, Condit won that fight.


----------



## locnott

Bonnar426 said:


> It does screw up their big money maker. Everyone wanted to see GSP vs. Diaz. Condit ruined that.


I really think Dana will offer the cry baby a rematch if thats ok with carlos, Carlos wasn't going to wait on Georges anyway, a rematch will sell a ton of PPV's
This might turn out to be a big payday for Zuffa, I really enjoyed everything about this fight and would not mind a rematch.:hug:


----------



## Bonnar426

doobieman21 said:


>


This is why I always root against Nick Diaz. The man isn't misunderstood or suffer from some anxiety disorder. He's just a dick. He's is one of the most unprofessional fighters I have ever seen. Hopefully he does retire so we don't have to deal with his dumb ass again.


----------



## Andrus

It was a great fight, Carlos tried to get the KO a few times but didn't succeed with it. I hope Diaz didn't retire and will be back by end of the year.


----------



## Emericanaddict

Dont know about you guys but i thoroughly enjoyed the entire card. Condit looked amazing, Diaz is a cry baby and everything was fairly entertaining for me. Great event in my opinion


----------



## Buakaw_GSP

I think that Dana White will offer an instant rematch between Diaz and Condit, have it in Montreal, and cause the UFC version of WWE's Montreal Screwjob. Seriously, I expect an instant rematch to be announced soon to please Mr. "I just lost so F this shit, wahh!", White does not want to let Diaz go now since he is on the cusp of being an actual PPV draw like Jon Jones.


----------



## Emericanaddict

Feel bad for OP not being able to enjoy an awesome fight because he doesn't seem to fully grasp what MMA entails.


----------



## G_Land

TheLyotoLegion said:


> And that should end this, it's very clear Condit won the fight, He out-struck Diaz in the first and no takedowns were attempted, then he out struck him in the third and fourth and stuffed both Diaz takedowns in the fourth.
> 
> I gave Nick the fifth and thought the first two could have gone either way but it was a close fight and hopefully this puts an end to this stupid hate Condit is getting. The proof is there, Condit won that fight.



Nice!!! which system did the scoring on this?


----------



## Alessia

Buakaw_GSP said:


> I think that Dana White will offer an instant rematch between Diaz and Condit, have it in Montreal, and cause the UFC version of WWE's Montreal Screwjob. Seriously, I expect an instant rematch to be announced soon to please Mr. "I just lost so F this shit, wahh!", White does not want to let Diaz go now since he is on the cusp of being an actual PPV draw like Jon Jones.


Why would he offer a rematch? Diaz clearly lost that fight. It was in no way close enough to warrant an instant rematch. Back of the line for Diaz and I don't see him climbing back up again.


----------



## hellholming

Alessia said:


> Why would he offer a rematch? Diaz clearly lost that fight. It was in no way close enough to warrant an instant rematch. Back of the line for Diaz and I don't see him climbing back up again.


exactly.

with the amount of wrestlers he managed to avoid while being in Strikeforce, he won't get back up to a title shot again at WW in the UFC.


----------



## LL

G_Land said:


> Nice!!! which system did the scoring on this?


CompuStrike.

Diaz was the more aggressive fighter but I'd hardly say he controlled the Octagon, he pushed Condit back but it was for a second, Condit kept moving and blocked a good portion of Diaz' shots and kept dragging the fight to the center not to mention Condit stuffed all of those takedowns until the last one.


----------



## funkasaurus

Okay, I'll try and end the childish bitching, I like a challenge.

Diaz Winning = You could have Diaz winning, but you were really going to chance. Round 1, 2 & 5 were up in the air, with Condit winning 3 & 4. You had to have Diaz winning all 3 of the super close rounds to win, and I think it was just a bit lucky if he had, so no one can complain about the result.

Condit Running = Diaz fans like Diaz because he doesnt run. Thats why they are so pissed at Condit. But Diaz can knock anyone out in a brawl, and there was no chance that Condit would KO Diaz considering that Paul Daley have him his best to no avail. Did Condit want to be knocked out and lose the fight? Hell no. He has the world title goal, and they threw him Diaz instead. He didnt want to get beat so he stuck and moved. It's boring for Diaz fans as its the opposite style, but it's the same style Muhammad Ali used, and he's considered to be the greatest boxer of all time.

Diaz' Reaction = Obviously petty, but you can understand immense frustration after the fight. When you stand in front of a guy who said he'll knock you out, and he's moving away, and you're doing everything between calling him a ***** and slapping him in the fair yet still getting no fight, you'll be pissed. Diaz' corner should have done a better job of making him think he is losing, and that way we might have seen more urgency in round 4, although good luck trying to tell Diaz anything lol.

Condit Vs GSP = Will be awful. GSP will eventually take him down after ages of ineffective kicking by Condit and weak jabs by GSP. He will lay and pray, and repeat this for the entire fight to keep the title.

Other = Diaz should have finished him on the ground in the 5th. Also, I feel terrible for Nate. Not only is it awkward for him now, but his chance of winning the LW title just ran away from him, literally.


----------



## G_Land

TheLyotoLegion said:


> CompuStrike.
> 
> Diaz was the more aggressive fighter but I'd hardly say he controlled the Octagon, he pushed Condit back but it was for a second, Condit kept moving and blocked a good portion of Diaz' shots and kept dragging the fight to the center not to mention Condit stuffed all of those takedowns until the last one.


Yeah thanks bro. It's pretty clear who won the fight. Was it close? Sure but these numbers are clear:thumb02:


----------



## funkasaurus

G_Land said:


> Yeah thanks bro. It's pretty clear who won the fight. Was it close? Sure but these numbers are clear:thumb02:


A close fight with a clear winner. Pacquiao Vs JMM all over again. You can see why someone would score it to Diaz, as there was close rounds he could have won, but all in all Condit deserved it. When Condit won a round it was clear.


----------



## M_D

Emericanaddict said:


> Feel bad for OP not being able to enjoy an awesome fight because he doesn't seem to fully grasp what MMA entails.


What are you guys not understanding about what the OP is saying?

He likes chess matches also it is just that this fight was not hyped up to be one it was hyped up as basically to killers in the ring and turned out to be something the opposite. 

weather you were rooting for either guy before the fight, the fight last night was not what you were expecting most likely.


----------



## Diazgonnahurtya

Damn!!! Now i'm gonna have to change my name.


----------



## MMsheA

Its the fight game though, its pretty stupid to assume how things will unfold, of course from time to time fighters are going to switch things up from the expected to gain and advantage or exploit an opponents weakness.

This argument/rant kind of reminds me of the old days of MMA when people who were fans of boxing and kick boxing first started to like the sport.

All you would ever hear is things like "I like mma except for when they are on the ground" or words to that effect.

It basically displayed in my opinion a lack of knowledge or at least appreciation for the whole of the sport.

I would say to people its not really about where the action takes place, more so that action is actually taking place.

After all you can watch a million very boring boxing matches where very little happens in spite of the fact they are standing and trading the entire bout.

So as long as people are actively working on the ground game that aspect of mma can and is still exciting in its own right (its not only knock outs and blow for blow banging that makes a fight interesting or exciting) if you know what you are looking at.

By the same token, whilst everyone loves to see an epic war like Shogun/Hendo or explosive back and forth matches and knock outs like Diaz/Daley or Kongo/Barry that does not mean these are the only types of fight and action that can provide excitement and entertainment to the educated fan.

MMA is evolving, its already a long way away from the days of stiker vs grappler or martial art vs martial art, so it stands to reason that it would continue to develop and tactics, game plans and the like would be equally as important as talent and power/strength/skill/heart whatever.

If someone is a bad stylistic match up for someone I think it is entertaining to see a fighter put in place a game plan to combat that and see whether the other fighter can react and combat it, see if they can pull a fighter out of their comfort zone, change the fight do something to sway the match in their favour. 

Yesterday was maybe not as overtly entertaining as some had hoped (certainly not if you were looking for a shogun/Hendo war) but there was still much to admire in the way Condit carried out his game play and the skills he used to clinically pick Diaz apart and it was tactically intriguing. 

Its pretty foolish to expect fighters to just negate their advantage in order to stand and bang all the time for the sake of entertainment.

I don't really see the concern about MMA losing its excitement factor either, there have in the past year been some of the most highly explosive and entertaining match ups I have ever seen and with the power the UFC has they are capable of smart match making to ensure as many exciting fights as possible (not like boxing where so often fights that should happen simply don't) and with their reward bonus set up for fight of the night and ko/sub of the night honours there is always the incentive for fighters to provide the entertainment we watch the sport for. MMA in my opinion will only continue to grow and get more excitng as fighters have to evolve to the level of the likes of Jon JOnes in the future, tactics and game plans simply add another dimension to that and as long as fighters are actively working I don;t have a problem (its the ref's job to force fighters to engage if they are lay and praying or avoiding the standup beyond acceptable stick and moving)


----------



## ashokjr

hellholming said:


> exactly.
> 
> with the amount of wrestlers he managed to avoid while being in Strikeforce, he won't get back up to a title shot again at WW in the UFC.


Truth right here. Good post

Diaz goes to the back of the queue and fights his way up the ladder which will not be easy, almost impossible.

If Dana tries to put Diaz in a match with Fitch (both coming off a loss), that'll be horrible for Diaz. We have so many other wrestlers and I think Diaz's shot to fame is already gone.


----------



## Emericanaddict

M_D said:


> What are you guys not understanding about what the OP is saying?
> 
> He likes chess matches also it is just that this fight was not hyped up to be one it was hyped up as basically to killers in the ring and turned out to be something the opposite.
> 
> weather you were rooting for either guy before the fight, the fight last night was not what you were expecting most likely.


That's not how I interpreted the OP is all. Seemed to me that it was just another guy slaggin off on Greg Jackson for being smart. Greg Jackson is not at fault here, plain and simple. MMA is gonna MMA. This ain't a tough man competition and we shouldn't be mad at coaches for treating MMA as a professional should. 

I could have been less offensive myself but hey man, you shouldn't believe the hype all the time. It'll set you up for disappointment.


----------



## Alessia

hellholming said:


> exactly.
> 
> with the amount of wrestlers he managed to avoid while being in Strikeforce, he won't get back up to a title shot again at WW in the UFC.


Exactly and that is why he opted to "retire", he knows he will have to face strong wrestlers now in order to get another shot.

Even then, after last night can anyone really think he would have anything for GSP in a fight?


----------



## MMsheA

If you can't appreciate tactics and game plans and only like all out action all the time perhaps mma is the wrong sport for you and you should be watching a bit of this instead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFvql-O1GWQ


----------



## mmaswe82

It was a close fight and it wasn't fun to watch but Condit obviously won. Don't see what all the talk about robbery is about. IMO the Kos/Pierce fight was even closer than this one.

Also lol at Diaz whining like a little punk about losing. He won't retire, give him Fitch so he can beat him too, then maybe he will retire for real.


----------



## Mckeever

I love the pretentious "MMA isn't the sport for you, you shouldn't bbe watching this sport" talk.

I have been a fan of martial arts since the age of 7 years old.

Don't ever try and tell me what I should and shouldn't watch, I'm an extremely passionate MMA fan, I'm just not a biased fanboy who denies the sport has any faults what so ever.


----------



## LL

mmaswe82 said:


> It was a close fight and it wasn't fun to watch but Condit obviously won. Don't see what all the talk about robbery is about. IMO the Kos/Pierce fight was even closer than this one.
> 
> Also lol at Diaz whining like a little punk about losing. He won't retire, give him Fitch so he can beat him too, then maybe he will retire for real.


I don't think the Diaz fans could handle their hero getting Fitched.


----------



## AmdM

Condit = The natural born Runner


----------



## funkasaurus

TheLyotoLegion said:


> I don't think the Diaz fans could handle their hero getting Fitched.


If Fitch's fans can handle their hero getting Hendricked...


----------



## MMsheA

What is the fault you are highlighting here though? that a game plan was used effectively and the fight did not unfold the way you expected it to?

Surely its a positive thing that the sport is not predictable and you cannot assume to know what will happen in any given fight.

I'm not even looking to be pretentious or condescending, but if you are really saying MMA is becoming boring because of the potential for game plans and tactics and you only want to see all out action all the time.....watch X Arm, at least at the moment the coaches and fighters are unlikely to think of many game plans beyond "try to knock him out" which might spoil your enjoyment of the bout.

I don't know how old you are now to gauge how long you have been a fan, but there is something very wrong in my view if you have been a martial arts fan so long and fail to appreciate the skill set and clinical display put on by Condit last night, he was classy and disciplined and he out thought and out fought Diaz pretty much from start to finish. 

Not at all out war no, but still an entertaining tactical match up in my view.


----------



## hellholming

Mckeever said:


> There should have been knock downs, scrambles, blood, more knock downs, submission attempts and then some more knock downs. I purchased a product that was falsely advertised.


Fighters are told to hype up the fight to sell more ppvs. It doesn't mean that they should follow a stupid gameplan in the actual fight because they said something in the pre-fight hype.

and like I said, I'm pretty sure I saw Condit throw elbows and flying knees in there. But no, he was in NO WAY trying to finish..... :confused03:

if you want to blame anyone, blame Nick's thick ******* skull.


----------



## MMsheA

Its like getting mad at the Tyson vs Lennox Lewis match because Tyson never raped him or ate his kids

The talk and hype is to sell the fight, you can't get mad when a fight doesn't live up to the hype because its an unpredictable real match up, things will not always happen the way you expect them too.

Its not scripted like WWE.

It makes sense for a fighter to switch up tactics and do things to gain an advantage that might take his opponent out of his comfort zone.

Condit did this last night, Diaz failed to respond to the puzzle Condit put in front of him, perhaps if he had found a way to combat what Condit was doing to him he could have changed the look of the fight, he failed to do so but you can't be mad at either fighter or the UFC in my view as things don't always go to plan and for every fight that does not live up to expectations in one way or another there are fights like Shogun/Hendo which exceed expectations also.


----------



## funkasaurus

How can people want to see Diaz lose and hate his fighting. I get disliking him as a person, but when it comes down to it, he is exciting as **** in the ring, so why would you 'want to see him lose'. GSP isnt exciting, so you can understand disliking him in the ring, but why would you want Diaz to retire?


----------



## khoveraki

Rick Story would be a good fight for Diaz. I think Ellenberger, Kos, Fitch, and especially Rory would ruin Diaz.


----------



## MMsheA

I think they will look to give Diaz a title shot if possible as there is not really much else of major interest in the division for GSP currently (if GSP wins that is)

Although I suppose the fact Diaz was beaten pretty comprehensibly will detract from the anticipation for his title shot now.

If he wins his next fight in style against a credible fighter though I think he would certainly still be given another shot.

He is still a very exciting fighter, a big personality for better or worse and there is bad blood of sorts between him and GSP, in short people would still want to see the fight so it would still happen I think.


----------



## MMsheA

funkasaurus said:


> How can people want to see Diaz lose and hate his fighting. I get disliking him as a person, but when it comes down to it, he is exciting as **** in the ring, so why would you 'want to see him lose'. GSP isnt exciting, so you can understand disliking him in the ring, but why would you want Diaz to retire?


I like Nick Diaz, I think he's an exciting fighter and I even think his personality is colourful and adds something to the world of mma.

I wanted him to win last night, not so much that I really care because I don't know any of these guys so don't really support them as such behind generally picking who I want to win a fight and wanting to see a good fight really.

I certainly wouldn't want him to retire and I don't think he will.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

M_D said:


> What are you guys not understanding about what the OP is saying?
> 
> He likes chess matches also it is just that this fight was not hyped up to be one it was hyped up as basically to killers in the ring and turned out to be something the opposite.
> 
> weather you were rooting for either guy before the fight, the fight last night was not what you were expecting most likely.


How many times has this happened? If people haven't learned by now that fights rarely go as advertised, then that's their issue. I admit, I don't much care for a fighter claiming for weeks on end that he's going to throw down, only for him to come out and play the points or wrestling game, but what was Condit supposed to do? Give away his game plan? 

Whether you appreciated last night's performance or not, you have to admit that Carlos' strategy was a thing of beauty. Nick wasn't able to land very much and for the first time in what must be years, he was noticeably out of his element. Carlos Condit took Nick Diaz out of his comfort zone, and it's commonly the other way around. If anything, I blame Nick for thinking that zombie stocking and street taunting was more effective than moving quicker and cutting Carlos off sooner. I'd like to see a few more people pointing the finger at Nick Diaz on this one, and this is coming from a big fan of the man.

Though I do admit, that Stockton slap was pretty badass.


----------



## Alessia

funkasaurus said:


> How can people want to see Diaz lose and hate his fighting. I get disliking him as a person, but when it comes down to it, he is exciting as **** in the ring, so why would you 'want to see him lose'. GSP isnt exciting, so you can understand disliking him in the ring, but why would you want Diaz to retire?


I don't want him to retire, I actually want him to fight GSP so I can see him get destroyed. 

I'd also love to see him fight some wrestlers so we can hear him throw another bitch fit after he loses.


----------



## Mckeever

MMsheA said:


> What is the fault you are highlighting here though? that a game plan was used effectively and the fight did not unfold the way you expected it to?
> 
> Surely its a positive thing that the sport is not predictable and you cannot assume to know what will happen in any given fight.
> 
> I'm not even looking to be pretentious or condescending, but if you are really saying MMA is becoming boring because of the potential for game plans and tactics and you only want to see all out action all the time.....watch X Arm, at least at the moment the coaches and fighters are unlikely to think of many game plans beyond "try to knock him out" which might spoil your enjoyment of the bout.
> 
> I don't know how old you are now to gauge how long you have been a fan, but there is something very wrong in my view if you have been a martial arts fan so long and fail to appreciate the skill set and clinical display put on by Condit last night, he was classy and disciplined and he out thought and out fought Diaz pretty much from start to finish.
> 
> Not at all out war no, but still an entertaining tactical match up in my view.


The fault I'm highlighting is that Greg Jackson prevented Carlos Condit from really fighting to his full potential. He effectively stopped Carlos Condit from fighting like Carlos Condit.

Unpredictability is a good thing. It would have been even more unpredictable if this fight developed into a back and forth war with knock downs, grappling and scrambles.

I never once stated or implied that MMA is becoming boring because of tactics or strategy. Just because a fight lacks activity doesn't some how make it an exciting tactical battle with real strategy. It just makes it a boring, dull affair with little activity. Is a Dan Henderson right hand less tactical and strategic than Carlos Condits performance last night? If so, how and why? Why is trying to knock your opponent out some how not tactical or strategic?

I'm 22 years old and I've been a fan for around 4 years. I didn't fail to understand any thing, I just have a very different perception of how the fight turned out to be compared to you. You saw an incredibly tactical Carlos Condit put on a clinical display last night. I perceived the complete opposite. 

I saw a Carlos Condit who shyed away from what makes him such a tenacious and fearless fighter and instead employ a strategy which revolved around turning the bout into a fencing competition. His strategy was to touch Diaz and then dart away as quickly as possible. Rinse and repeat. There didn't seem to be any real intentions or commitment to any of his strikes (other than the flamboyant head kick). Santos was throwing leg kicks at Nick with purpose, with mean intention. You could see his goal was to end Nick Diaz. Carlos Condit on the other hand was content with throwing strikes with very little power and just evading Nick the entire time. In my opinion,that isn't the essence of Martial Arts and that's not why I watch this sport.


----------



## jonnyg4508

Canadian Psycho said:


> You have to admit... it was a brilliant game plan.


I will defiantly admit it was a great gameplan. That was the only chance Condit had, and they executed it well.

That said I don't respect it. It is becoming point fighting. Aldo, Barao, Barry all throw leg kicks with a meaning. Jorgensen was limping last night. Nick wasn't even checking them and walked right through them. They were more of touches than actual kicks. 

It is funny how MMA is scored. Rampage beat Machida for basically coming forward. Yet, Condit wins this. Who really knows how judges are going to score things. 

It may be sour grapes. But if this is going to turn into a bunch of guys trying to steal fights on points...then I don't know how much I care to watch. 

Good for Condit. He did what he had to do. But he can now change his name to The NAtural Born Sprinter. All the stuff about being a "warrior" and crap on the primetime looks a little foolish now. Any time he got hit he ran clear to the other side of the cage.


----------



## jonnyg4508

Jumanji said:


> Carlos should definetly change his nickname after that fight. Natural born killers don't try to win by decision.


The only strikes he tried to actually end the fight with were crappy spinning elbows that never landed.

Pretty funny when you talk all this "how is he going to deal with a shin to the face?" And "I'm a Warrior". 

Carlos came to eek out a decision with some weak leg kicks and movement. And he did. So congrats to him. 

Fitting that he won a Harley though. Hop on that bike Carlos.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

So you'd have had more respect for him had he come out, thrown down, and likely lost, as opposed to his coming out, sticking to a brilliant strategy, and winning the interim title? I wanted this to be a brutal, bloody war as much as anyone, but there comes a point in your career where you have to fight to win. I think we've seen enough of Carlos to know that this guy has that killer instinct. I think he did what he had to do to win, and that he'll be back to his typical aggressive self come the St. Pierre fight. Especially since aggressive fighters have a much better chance of 'breaking' GSP.

If anything, I think it's more a case of Diaz vs. Condit not being what it was made out to be. Had this been Condit vs. Koscheck, people would have been much more welcoming of the performance.


----------



## MikeHawk

This is quite possibly one of the stupidest threads I've ever seen. How in the hell did Greg turn him into a safe fighter when Condit has been with Jackson since he was 15? If anything, Jackson made him the animal he is today.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

MikeHawk said:


> This is quite possibly one of the stupidest threads I've ever seen. How in the hell did Greg turn him into a safe fighter when Condit has been with Jackson since he was 15? If anything, Jackson made him the animal he is today.


/thread

And don't forget Jon Jones. That safety loving motherfucker.


----------



## Mckeever

Canadian Psycho said:


> *So you'd have had more respect for him had he come out, thrown down, and likely lost*, as opposed to his coming out, sticking to a brilliant strategy, and winning the interim title? I wanted this to be a brutal, bloody war as much as anyone, but there comes a point in your career where you have to fight to win. I think we've seen enough of Carlos to know that this guy has that killer instinct. I think he did what he had to do to win, and that he'll be back to his typical aggressive self come the St. Pierre fight. Especially since aggressive fighters have a much better chance of 'breaking' GSP.
> 
> If anything, I think it's more a case of Diaz vs. Condit not being what it was made out to be. Had this been Condit vs. Koscheck, people would have been much more welcoming of the performance.


That is EXACTLY what I'm saying and you can't accurately say he would likely have lost if he employed that strategy. That kind of strategy DEFINES Carlos Condit. That's why he is called the natural born killer. The reason this match up was so enticing was because of just how similar the two fighters actually are and how they both go at it.


----------



## jonnyg4508

Soakked said:


> Yeah tell me about, I hate GJ with a passion.


I've heard Jackson yell "just hold him there" or "stall".

Give him credit, he tries to use the rules to his advantage. He is about winning and getting the decision while staying out of trouble.

I'm just not a fan either. He basically tries to steal fights with his gameplans. When you look at the stats on paper, Condit looked like he beat Nick down. Nick walked through all of those kicks because they were just there for points. When he fought Cyborg, Cyborg actually hurt him a bit with kicks. 

It is becoming more of a point fighting game. Even if you just touch a guys leg with your leg, judges are scoring it as if it means anything. At the end of the day it is still called a "fight". And I don't know how a guy can win a fight while running to the other side of the cage all night. 

Nick brought in Mauy Thai guys. I really think he was preparing for Condit to try and take his head off. I think if he said fock it and timed 1 takedown each round he would have sub'd him or at least beat him. You could see at the end how much of a disparity there is in their BJJ games. Nick never does it, but he should have played the BJJ game after realizing Condit would sprint away anytime he got close.


----------



## hellholming

Mckeever said:


> That is EXACTLY what I'm saying and you can't accurately say he would likely have lost if he employed that strategy.


oh, I guess that's why Nick Diaz recently has so many losses on his record against guys who have done just that.... oh wait.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Mckeever said:


> That is EXACTLY what I'm saying and you can't accurately say he would likely have lost if he employed that strategy. That kind of strategy DEFINES Carlos Condit. That's why he is called the natural born killer. The reason this match up was so enticing was because of just how similar the two fighters actually are and how they both go at it.


No, I can't say definitively that he would have lost. But Carlos himself said if he had fought that fight, he'd likely not be sitting there with the belt. When the man himself admits that he'd not likely have won in a standup war with Diaz, then this tells me he wasn't confident enough to employ that strategy. Whether Carlos is blowing smoke I cannot say, but he obviously felt better doing what he did.

As for 'this is becoming a points game'... come on. We see dozens and dozens of fighters brutally knocked out and submitted each year. Stop being so dramatic.


----------



## jonnyg4508

Canadian Psycho said:


> So you'd have had more respect for him had he come out, thrown down, and likely lost, as opposed to his coming out, sticking to a brilliant strategy, and winning the interim title? I wanted this to be a brutal, bloody war as much as anyone, but there comes a point in your career where you have to fight to win. I think we've seen enough of Carlos to know that this guy has that killer instinct. I think he did what he had to do to win, and that he'll be back to his typical aggressive self come the St. Pierre fight. Especially since aggressive fighters have a much better chance of 'breaking' GSP.
> 
> If anything, I think it's more a case of Diaz vs. Condit not being what it was made out to be. Had this been Condit vs. Koscheck, people would have been much more welcoming of the performance.


No. Not what I said.

I just don't have respect when you act like such a killer. And such a finisher...then yet you fight not to lose. To run and touch the others leg to score pts. 

People confuse myself and others for wanting brawling vs. fighting. Fighting is much different than brawling.

Was it a well executed gameplan? Yes. For sure. But I compare it to the wrestler who want to win on top position points. Under the rules that is a good way to win. But at the end of the day it isn't a style that I enjoy to watch. 

There was nothing behind Condit's strikes. Only ones were wild spinning nothings that never landed. Almost like limited contact karate point fighting.

But hey, if you can win MMA fights using the technique then more power to you. Everyone is allowed to do what is best for them to win. In the end they have careers and winning is important. But some fighters actually are in the sport because they enjoy fighting. They enjoy the art of fighting and finishing. Some guys are there to gather enough "points". There is no "right" way to perform in the octagon. I just tend to respect the guys who are in it for more than just pulling out a points win.


----------



## Mckeever

hellholming said:


> oh, I guess that's why Nick Diaz recently has so many losses on his record against guys who have done just that.... oh wait.


Moot point. Carlos Condit's X-factor is his aggression and tenacity, his warrior spirit. Last night he transformed into a points fighter trying to turn the fight into a fencing competition.

If you appreciate or want to be a fan of that style of fighting, then that's fine, but don't try telling others with the opposite opinion that "they don't understand MMA and should watch another sport".

Just don't, thanks.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

Notice how every time people don't play into Diaz' game plan he blames them for him losing?

Take responsibility for your actions like a ******* adult. Grow the **** up. I won't give a damn if you leave MMA. You're a hell of a fighter, but you have a pis poor attitude. Good riddance.


----------



## hellholming

AmdM said:


> Condit = The natural born Runner


yeah, he should have played right into Diaz' gameplan and gotten himself stuck up against the fence like everyone else who Diaz has beat.

:confused03:


----------



## jonnyg4508

For the record it was a close fight. I'm not trying to sit here and say Diaz was robbed.

But Hendo, Joe Lauzon, Helwani, Ronda Rousey, Pat Militich all scored it for Diaz. I'm sure there are plenty of pro fighters who scored it for Condit as well. But most of the fighters I follow on twitter all seems to give it to Diaz.

Was a close fight. Disappointed we won't see Diaz/GSP.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

I think we need to see Diaz face the likes of Fitch, Kos, Ellenberger, and Rory before we can say that they'd 'slaughter' him. I can actually see Kos and Ellenberger trying to make a point and stand with Nick, and both would simply get picked apart. We all know Kos doesn't wrestle anymore, and Ellenberger is slowly entering a love affair with his striking, so I don't see either going for many takedowns. And as stated, Diaz would pick both apart. Especially Koscheck. 

Fitch is an interesting fight, as is Rory. I think Rory can beat just about anyone at WW right now, including Condit. That said, we haven't seen Nick face high-end wrestlers in years, and to claim this is his kryptonite when we don't know how much his game has evolved is jumping the gun. I think he's more than capable off of his back, and there's nothing to say he couldn't catch all of these guys in a sub, let alone avoid some of their takedowns. I'd need to see a few of these fights before I could make any definitive statements in that regard.

Diaz vs. Koscheck is a good start.


----------



## osmium

How about Diaz cuts Condit off instead of posing like a retard and expecting his opponent to just stand still and get hit. Diaz not being an elite fighter is the cause for any and all boredom someone might have gotten out of that fight. Can't get a takedown and can't hit a moving target. He can't use any of his tools unless his opponent allows him to.


----------



## hellholming

Mckeever said:


> If you appreciate or want to be a fan of that style of fighting, then that's fine, but don't try telling others with the opposite opinion that "they don't understand MMA and should watch another sport".
> 
> Just don't, thanks.


and where exactly have I done that? 

don't put words into my mouth, thanks.


----------



## Alessia

Mckeever said:


> Moot point. Carlos Condit's X-factor is his aggression and tenacity, his warrior spirit. Last night he transformed into a points fighter trying to turn the fight into a fencing competition.
> 
> If you appreciate or want to be a fan of that style of fighting, then that's fine, but don't try telling others with the opposite opinion that "they don't understand MMA and should watch another sport".
> 
> Just don't, thanks.


No, last night Carlos knew that Diaz was a threat if he could get his back against the cage, and nullified Diaz's gameplan of just that all night.

It's not Carlos' fault that Diaz tried to use the same game plan of backing him into the fence or pushing him into the fence so he could throw his combos, the whole fight even though it wasn't working.

Should Carlos have been like "Well I'm completely shutting down his game plan and he keeps trying it, so I guess I should just play right into and brawl when my back is against the cage where Nick will be at his best and have the advantage"?

If Diaz changed his strategy the fight would have been different, but he did the same shit all night and cost himself the fight.


----------



## NoYards

> There should have been knock downs, scrambles, blood, more knock downs, submission attempts and then some more knock downs. I purchased a product that was falsely advertised.


Well I can think of two ways to fix that.

1) Bring the fighters out to the middle of the ring for the refs instructions, nail their feet to the spot where they stand and let them go at it.

2) Outlaw pre fight hype and force the camps to make their game plans public.

Both of which are dumb.

Best to ignore the pre fight hype because there's more than a 50/50 chance that it's all BS. This is a MMA event, not the WWE, no one can guarantee the flow or outcomes of an MMA even, and anyone who goes into one thinking that they are owed a certain type of match is quite frankly, not very well grounded in reality.

Personally I find watching two knock out fighters going toe to toe the most boring of all forms of fighting. Yeah, it's exciting, but only in the same way a hockey fight or a car crash is 'exciting', you have to look, but it's totally beside the point of the main objective and while 'interesting' in an of itself does not add to the real objective (the 'art' of martial arts and their effective use) ... now two strikers going at it, that's fun to watch ... a striker against a wrestler, that fun to watch ... even a brawler against striker/BJJ/wrestler/etc is fun to watch, any 'skilled MM artist' against another skilled MM artist is fun to watch to see who utilizes their skill sets to the best affect ... watching a fight to determine who gets the lucky punch in first is IMO something better left to 'So You Think You Can Fight' ... entertaining, but not MMA.

Sure, casual fans may prefer the 'hockey fight' style, but there are usually a fight or two in each UFC event that gives them something of what they are looking for .. the Diaz Conduit fight was a great example of an MMA (real mixed MARTIAL ARTS) match for the 'more than casual' fans ... you got your fight in the co-main event (which for me was boring, knowing that Big Country had only a single game plan (a 'punchers chance' game plan) against a bigger more skilled fighter (BTW: Big Country kept coming forward the whole fight, does this mean that he should have won as well?)


----------



## PheelGoodInc

jonnyg4508 said:


> For the record it was a close fight. I'm not trying to sit here and say Diaz was robbed.
> 
> But Hendo, Joe Lauzon, Helwani, Ronda Rousey, Pat Militich all scored it for Diaz. I'm sure there are plenty of pro fighters who scored it for Condit as well. But most of the fighters I follow on twitter all seems to give it to Diaz.
> 
> Was a close fight. Disappointed we won't see Diaz/GSP.


Hey, I know we NEVER see eye to eye. But one thing I can almost guarantee, is that we will eventually see Diaz / GSP. Diaz talked out of emotion at the end of the fight like he always does. At the end of the day he needs a paycheck. He'll never be an elite boxer and being undercard pro won't pay his bills. I have a feeling after GSP beats Condit, and Diaz whoops someone else; we'll see GSP Diaz. The UFC wants that fight and they will make it happen.


----------



## Mckeever

Alessia said:


> No, last night Carlos knew that Diaz was a threat if he could get his back against the cage, and nullified Diaz's gameplan of just that all night.
> 
> It's not Carlos' fault that Diaz tried to use the same game plan of backing him into the fence or pushing him into the fence so he could throw his combos, the whole fight even though it wasn't working.
> 
> *Should Carlos have been like "Well I'm completely shutting down his game plan and he keeps trying it, so I guess I should just play right into and brawl when my back is against the cage where Nick will be at his best and have the advantage"?
> *
> If Diaz changed his strategy the fight would have been different, but he did the same shit all night and cost himself the fight.


No, he could have just stopped touching his leg, back peddling at every single opportunity and actually looked to do some damage against Nick. That's all.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Nick's face looked pretty beat up for a guy who was only having his leg tapped.


----------



## jonnyg4508

I defiantly agree Diaz should have changed his plan mid way. If Condit was going to run clear to the other side anytime Diaz got within range, he should have changed it up. He should have tried to land 1 timed TD each round. From there I believe he would of sub'd Condit if he was able to get the takedowns.

I believe Nick thought he was winning. Nate told him he was up 3-1. I think Nick thought it could have been 2-2 going into the 5th. That is why he took Condit down and easily got his back. He even said if he thought he was losing he would have tried much harder to risk position to get the submission. 

I personally thought it was 2-2 going into the 5th. They were both doing stuff in the 5th...Condit maybe had the edge. I thought the TD and getting the back won Diaz that round. And I had a very close 48-47 win for Diaz.


----------



## osmium

Canadian Psycho said:


> Nick's face looked pretty beat up for a guy who was only having his leg tapped.


shhhhhhhhhhh.....


----------



## LL

Mckeever said:


> No, he could have just stopped touching his leg, back peddling at every single opportunity and actually looked to do some damage against Nick. That's all.


He did, he threw several spinning back fists, tried to hit him with flying knees, hit him with some good punches and hit him with a pretty nasty head kick, Diaz is just a tough guy so it didn't effect him.


----------



## 2zwudz

*Why is it good for Condit but not for George?*

Why was Condits game plan ok with most fans but when George utilizes his game plan people get chapped. I understand why both fighters have there own idea of what they need to do to win the fight but if George was fighting Diaz last night and George puts a long grueling grind on Diaz ......its not cool? This is just a thought not a poke for a verbal argument.


----------



## Alessia

Mckeever said:


> No, he could have just stopped touching his leg, back peddling at every single opportunity and actually looked to do some damage against Nick. That's all.


Nick could have also stopped trying to force his back to the cage and tried to fight him in center of the octagon.

Oh wait, he was losing the exchanges in the center, my bad.


----------



## jonnyg4508

Canadian Psycho said:


> Nick's face looked pretty beat up for a guy who was only having his leg tapped.


Condit had a couple of moments in the 3rd and 4th...that is why most people give him those rounds...

Nick's face gets cut easy all the time. 1 combo could have done that. It defiantly wasn't a result if getting hit in the face all night.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

I fail to see how pushing forward wins a fight when you get out struck... Someone care to explain?


----------



## Mckeever

NoYards said:


> Well I can think of two ways to fix that.
> 
> 1) Bring the fighters out to the middle of the ring for the refs instructions, nail their feet to the spot where they stand and let them go at it.
> 
> 2) Outlaw pre fight hype and force the camps to make their game plans public.
> 
> Both of which are dumb.
> 
> Best to ignore the pre fight hype because there's more than a 50/50 chance that it's all BS. This is a MMA event, not the WWE, no one can guarantee the flow or outcomes of an MMA even, and anyone who goes into one thinking that they are owed a certain type of match is quite frankly, not very well grounded in reality.
> 
> Personally I find watching two knock out fighters going toe to toe the most boring of all forms of fighting. Yeah, it's exciting, but only in the same way a hockey fight or a car crash is 'exciting', you have to look, but it's totally beside the point of the main objective and while 'interesting' in an of itself does not add to the real objective (the 'art' of martial arts and their effective use) ... now two strikers going at it, that's fun to watch ... a striker against a wrestler, that fun to watch ... even a brawler against striker/BJJ/wrestler/etc is fun to watch, any 'skilled MM artist' against another skilled MM artist is fun to watch to see who utilizes their skill sets to the best affect ... watching a fight to determine who gets the lucky punch in first is IMO something better left to 'So You Think You Can Fight' ... entertaining, but not MMA.
> 
> Sure, casual fans may prefer the 'hockey fight' style, but there are usually a fight or two in each UFC event that gives them something of what they are looking for .. the Diaz Conduit fight was a great example of an MMA (real mixed MARTIAL ARTS) match for the 'more than casual' fans ... you got your fight in the co-main event (which for me was boring, knowing that Big Country had only a single game plan (a 'punchers chance' game plan) against a bigger more skilled fighter (BTW: Big Country kept coming forward the whole fight, does this mean that he should have won as well?)


I wasn't basing my expectations solely off of pre fight hype. The prime time shows and what not are a nice little boost to get me a little more pumped up, but the reason I was personally so hyped up was because I had watched virtually all of their previous fights and had grown to love both fighters. I wanted to see the Carlos Condit that fought Ellenberger, Rory Macdonald, Hardy etc. That is where my personal hype stemmed from, actual fights and results.

I also disagree with your assessment of this fight being a great representation of mixed martial arts which you emphasised. There was virtually no grappling on display, other than a small portion of the fifth round.

I think a fight like Dan Henderson/Shogun is a much greater representation of mixed martial arts. Power shots, clinching, grappling, take downs, ups, downs and true heart and warrior spirit displayed by BOTH men.


----------



## osmium

PheelGoodInc said:


> I fail to see how pushing forward wins a fight when you get out struck... Someone care to explain?


It doesn't because the criteria is effective aggression not aggression which no one seems to understand.


----------



## f4rtknock3r

Canadian Psycho said:


> Nick's face looked pretty beat up for a guy who was only having his leg tapped.


Stop using faces as a way to compare who won because its not valid at all. 

If you guys think what Condit did last night was a Brilliant game plan then I dont want to see where MMA is headed in the next couple of years.

No is asking Carlos to stand in the pocket and eat punches like cowboy did with Nate Diaz but jesus the man was not committing to anything and there were points in the fight that he had his back towards nick to freaking sprint. You guys need to stop being haters.


----------



## MikeHawk

PheelGoodInc said:


> I fail to see how pushing forward wins a fight when you get out struck... Someone care to explain?


Nick fights by Stockton rules, homie.


----------



## The Horticulturist

Condit threw just about every strike he has against Diaz.. If he rocked him once do you really think he would not have tried to finish? He hardly took any damage at all through 5 rounds with Nick Diaz.. it was a great performance.

He didn't _need_ to impress anyone in this fight except the judges. The most important thing to do in a title fight is win, and he did.


----------



## Mckeever

Canadian Psycho said:


> Nick's face looked pretty beat up for a guy who was only having his leg tapped.


Oh c'mon. Nick practically bleeds and bruises and soon as the bell is rung.


----------



## MMsheA

Mckeever said:


> The fault I'm highlighting is that Greg Jackson prevented Carlos Condit from really fighting to his full potential. He effectively stopped Carlos Condit from fighting like Carlos Condit.
> 
> Unpredictability is a good thing. It would have been even more unpredictable if this fight developed into a back and forth war with knock downs, grappling and scrambles.
> 
> I never once stated or implied that MMA is becoming boring because of tactics or strategy. Just because a fight lacks activity doesn't some how make it an exciting tactical battle with real strategy. It just makes it a boring, dull affair with little activity. Is a Dan Henderson right hand less tactical and strategic than Carlos Condits performance last night? If so, how and why? Why is trying to knock your opponent out some how not tactical or strategic?
> 
> I'm 22 years old and I've been a fan for around 4 years. I didn't fail to understand any thing, I just have a very different perception of how the fight turned out to be compared to you. You saw an incredibly tactical Carlos Condit put on a clinical display last night. I perceived the complete opposite.
> 
> I saw a Carlos Condit who shyed away from what makes him such a tenacious and fearless fighter and instead employ a strategy which revolved around turning the bout into a fencing competition. His strategy was to touch Diaz and then dart away as quickly as possible. Rinse and repeat. There didn't seem to be any real intentions or commitment to any of his strikes (other than the flamboyant head kick). Santos was throwing leg kicks at Nick with purpose, with mean intention. You could see his goal was to end Nick Diaz. Carlos Condit on the other hand was content with throwing strikes with very little power and just evading Nick the entire time. In my opinion,that isn't the essence of Martial Arts and that's not why I watch this sport.


Ok so you have not been a MMA fan particularly long, but I will assume what with the back dated footage available on the internet you have still seen the great fights of the past before you were aware of the sport even if you were not old enough to watch them at the time and as such you are knowledgeable about the sport, you are clearly a passionate and committed fan of the sport since your four years of following it. 

I think you are being pedantic with your use literally assessing the word tactic and or game plan.

Dan Henderson looking to throw a right hand on the chin of his opponent when he sees an opening is not a game plan, its his fightings style.

Yes he may have studying footage of his opponent to see things that may help him set up or deliver that right hand and can put in place a tactic where by he sets up this punch but is it not the same as developing a game plan to fight a fight away from the comfort zone of your oppponent based on his strengths and weaknesses.

Ali's rope a dope game plan that defeated Foreman is an example of a game plan, his right hand that knocked out Sonny Liston is not (its an example of his skill and power as a fighter.)

I understand your frustration to an extent, especially if you are a Diaz fan and are a little pissed that your boy lost without being able to show what he can do, and of course I too wanted to see a "better" fight, we all would have preferred to see a brawl with knock downs, punches that made the opponents legs buckle and a knock out or submission.

That in my opinion does not mean a fight does not have merits if these things do not occur, Condits game plan was to be elusive, to not allow Diaz to land his punches as frequently as he is used to and to keep him at bay with leg kicks (if you know your muay thai you'd know legs kicks do not all have to be thrown with power any more than jabs do in boxing, its a very usual tactic to use them as range finders, or to disrupt the work of your opponent whilst setting up other attacks of your own.)

Condit was working slickly avoiding Diaz's work, he wasn't running, he was continuously landing shots (I am pretty sure he landed double the stikes Diaz did) counter punching/striking, sticking and moving, moving in and out of range are all part of fighting tactics. 

I don't know if you have ever fought your self or trained to fight yourself but if you have you should know about and admire defensive tactics, counter striking and all those things I have mentioned and Condit displayed against Diaz.

Yes I like you would have preferred a war of a fight, but than we are not Condit or responsible for his career and lively hood.

I'd have liked him to risk his title shot for the sake of my entertainment, but I fully understand him and JAckson employing a smart game plan which lead to him dominating his opponent with ease and securing himself a title shot in the process. He had a game plan that was working and basically Diaz did nothing to force him to change this game plan and create the war we wanted to see.


----------



## jonnyg4508

PheelGoodInc said:


> I fail to see how pushing forward wins a fight when you get out struck... Someone care to explain?


I don't know ask Rampage and Machida how fights are scored. 

Diaz had the better strikes. Most of all of the worth while strikes Condit landed were in the 3rd and 4th...and people gave him those rounds.

But the other rounds I favor a guy who may have landed 5 less strikes...yet there were more meaningful while he was always coming forward. Half of those rounds Condit was moving away from Diaz.

Machida lost to Rampage because Rampage came forward all fight. So it isn't like this hasn't happened.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/99592-seeing-lot-double-standards.html

I'm a biased GSP fan, so I've no issue with his style of fighting. He fights to win, and he does just that. The fact is, fans can complain about it, but it's on the opponents to upset and break apart game plans and strategies. If they can't, then they don't deserve to win. 

I've no issue with how GSP fights, or how Condit fought last night. I enjoy a barn burner as much as the next guy, but I also don't mind seeing a well executed game plan. It's mixed martial arts and I welcome all forms of it.


----------



## MikeHawk

The only people hating on Condit's game plan are bitter Diaz fans.


----------



## LL

jonnyg4508 said:


> I don't know ask Rampage and Machida how fights are scored.
> 
> Diaz had the better strikes. Most of all of the worth while strikes Condit landed were in the 3rd and 4th...and people gave him those rounds.
> 
> But the other rounds I favor a guy who may have landed 5 less strikes...yet there were more meaningful while he was always coming forward. Half of those rounds Condit was moving away from Diaz.
> 
> Machida lost to Rampage because Rampage came forward all fight. So it isn't like this hasn't happened.


Machida lost to Rampage because he got pushed against the cage and actually taken down, by the time Diaz took Condit down it was far too late, he had already dropped the first, third, and fourth. When Machida finally found his range it was far too late, Rampage had pushed him up against the cage and Machida coming off the first loss a vicious knock out one at that fighting a guy whose well known for his KO power was far too hesitant in the first round and then got taken down in the second in a round that was fairly even due to his hesitance.


----------



## jonnyg4508

Werdum landed more strikes than Overeem. Yet Overeem won. If I go back and look it has happened all the time.

Looking at a sheet of paper and see the total number of strikes landed isn't the right way to score a fight. 

This is a wild guess but 75% of Condit's landed strikes were not aggressive or didn't hurt Diaz at all. At some point damage and the significance of the strike has to come into play. If I am not mistaken Aggression is in the rule book for how fights are scored. Diaz was coming forward all fight while Condit swiped his leg and ran out the back door...over and over and over.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

f4rtknock3r said:


> Stop using faces as a way to compare who won because its not valid at all.
> 
> If you guys think what Condit did last night was a Brilliant game plan then I dont want to see where MMA is headed in the next couple of years.
> 
> No is asking Carlos to stand in the pocket and eat punches like cowboy did with Nate Diaz but jesus the man was not committing to anything and there were points in the fight that he had his back towards nick to freaking sprint. You guys need to stop being haters.


1) I rarely ever rely on 'faces' to make my point. The fact is, people are claiming that all Carlos did was tap Nick's leg the entire fight. I used his face as a counter argument, because bruising and abrasions to the face don't occur where one has relied solely on baby kicks to the leg the entire fight. End of story.

2) It seems like a lot of people here are asking that Carlos do precisely what Cowboy did. Which is silly when you think about what happened to Cowboy. 

3) I've acknowledged several times that I'm a massive Diaz brothers fan. And so I suggest you actually read through threads before jumping to idiotic conclusions. Nick lost the fight. Deal with it. If he had truly cared about winning, he would have picked up his pace in the third and actually looked to cut Carlos off, rather than flip him the bird and say 'What's up?'


----------



## hellholming

and which punches had Condit hurt again?


----------



## osmium

Condit was trying to finish within his gameplan. The only problem I have with GSP is when he is fighting a guy with no depth perception for 5 rounds not trying to finish the fight and just cruising. He also clearly should have put more of a beating on Hardy because of the difference in skill levels but that fight was fairly entertaining.


----------



## Alessia

Alessia said:


> Nick could have also stopped trying to force his back to the cage and tried to fight him in center of the octagon.
> 
> Oh wait, he was losing the exchanges in the center, my bad.



Still looking for a response to this.




f4rtknock3r said:


> Stop using faces as a way to compare who won because its not valid at all.
> 
> If you guys think what Condit did last night was a Brilliant game plan then I dont want to see where MMA is headed in the next couple of years.
> 
> No is asking Carlos to stand in the pocket and eat punches like cowboy did with Nate Diaz but jesus the man was not committing to anything and there were points in the fight that he had his back towards nick to freaking sprint. You guys need to stop being haters.


Yeah Condit was not committing to anything. Guess you missed that beautiful Jab, leg kick, head kick combo.

I guess those lazy ass head kicks Diaz threw in the 5th to get Carlos to back into the cage were how you really commit to throwing something!


----------



## MMsheA

SJ said:


> Condit threw just about every strike he has against Diaz.. If he rocked him once do you really think he would not have tried to finish? He hardly took any damage at all through 5 rounds with Nick Diaz.. it was a great performance.
> 
> He didn't _need_ to impress anyone in this fight except the judges. The most important thing to do in a title fight is win, and he did.


I agree totally with what you say here 

Except I would add that ideally one should be looking to stop a fight more than Condit did to avoid the risk of poor Judging.

He didn't need to impress the fans in this fan no, first and foremost he had a massive opportunity in his sites both for his career goals as a fighter and the money he can make as a title challenger and even more so if he brings home the gold.

I do agree it was a great performance in which he outclassed Diaz but I do think it would have been a better performance had he been a little more active (without deviating from his game plan and getting dragged into a brawl) in seeking to actually finish the fight.

But then Diaz is a very tough fighter, and stopping him is no joke. If power strikers like Semtex Daley fail in a all out war with him punch for punch I can understand any fighter looking for different routes to success against him.


----------



## Leed

hellholming said:


> and which punches had Condit hurt again?


This. I love how people are saying that Condit didn't hurt Diaz, while in reality Diaz did even less damage.


----------



## NoYards

jonnyg4508 said:


> Was it a well executed gameplan? Yes. For sure. But I compare it to the wrestler who want to win on top position points. Under the rules that is a good way to win. But at the end of the day it isn't a style that I enjoy to watch.


See, I actually enjoy a good wrestling match ... sure, if you're a good wrestler and you L&P on a non-wrestler without trying to improve your position or doing a lot of G&P, then that's boring (which is why you get 'stood up',) but when you have GSP on top of BJP, or vise versa, then you have a real interesting and exciting match ... can GSP improve his position and keep busy enough to score points and stay on the ground, or can BJ keep GSP in full guard and get the match back on its feet, perform a sweep, or score some sub attempts?

If someone can win a match by keeping BJ on his back, or getting GSP on his back, then that is a legitimate win IMO ... you win, in lieu of a KO or Sub, by nullifying your opponents advantages and scoring points yourself as defined by the rules of UFC.

Watching a fight develop rather than count on the instant gratification of a good slug-fest may require a bit of patience and concentration in order to appreciate, but in the end you will find that you will enjoy a lot more fights during a UFC event ... we have the best MM artists in the world displaying a wide array of exciting skills, and unless they stand in the middle of the ring and throw the 'fist dice' it's considered boring? 

What's boring is that we have to discuss nonsense like this rather than discussing the finer points of how Condit used his own skills and exploited the weaknesses of Diaz to pull off a unanimous decision.


----------



## Emericanaddict

I shall hear no more on the subject.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

jonnyg4508 said:


> I don't know ask Rampage and Machida how fights are scored.
> 
> Diaz had the better strikes. Most of all of the worth while strikes Condit landed were in the 3rd and 4th...and people gave him those rounds.
> 
> But the other rounds I favor a guy who may have landed 5 less strikes...yet there were more meaningful while he was always coming forward. Half of those rounds Condit was moving away from Diaz.
> 
> Machida lost to Rampage because Rampage came forward all fight. So it isn't like this hasn't happened.



Just plain wrong... I was going to respond but someone else did already.

Simply moving forward has never won anyone a fight who was outstruck the whole time. Yes I admit swinging at air has won fights... but not moving forward.

The only person to blame for Diaz losing was Diaz himself. But of course he threw a teenage hissy fit after the fight. Instead of being a man and trying to figure out why he lost the fight, he blames someone else and claims he's done with the sport.

That reminded me of a 10 year old who got mad and threw his Gi Jo's across the room and said "I'm not playing anymore".


----------



## deadmanshand

PheelGoodInc said:


> Simply moving forward has never won anyone a fight who was outstruck the whole time. Yes I admit swinging at air has won fights... but not moving forward.


I think this should be called "Pulling a Garcia" from this point. Who cares if they hit as long as they are moving forward and swinging? That's how you win fights.


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## PheelGoodInc

deadmanshand said:


> I think this should be called "Pulling a Garcia" from this point. Who cares if they hit as long as they are moving forward and swinging? That's how you win fights.


The thing is, Nick moved forward and ate counters the entire fight. Nick never rocked Carlos, and Nick got the better of fewer exchanges. Carlos actually rocked Diaz momentarily, landed more power shots, and more overall shots. I fail tot see how you can blame Carlos for not playing Nicks game. Had Carlos got backed into a corner and banged with Diaz, Diaz would have likely won. 

*If Diaz wasn't able to adjust his style to a guy like Condit throughout a 5 round fight, how the hell do people think he would have been able to out game plan or adjust his style against a guy like GSP?*

/End Thread

Because this is really about the fact that Diaz lost, and not Greg Jackson


----------



## 2zwudz

Canadian Psycho
Thanks...I didnt catch that thread earlier.


----------



## Life B Ez

*Never Been This Upset After a Fight....Ever...(Spoilers, I Guess)*

***Before reading, try to put your bias aside for either guy and actually think about what you watched last night.***

I've never been this disappointed after a fight. I had it scored for Diaz, I gave him one, two and five, how you can score five for Condit is kind of crazy to me if you think BJ Penn won the second against Fitch, Diaz had his back for a minute and a half. But that's not why I'm upset with this fight at all. I'm upset because this looked like it was going to be the fight Penn v Diaz was supposed to be. Two guys going to war, a clash of styles that led to fireworks. It wasn't at all, Condit came to point fight. 

Do not even try to convince me Condit came to do anything but win a decision, he threw a bunch of telegraphed spinning attacks and a single high kick. That is not Carlos Condit. The rest of the time he was backpedaling and landing kicks with his feet before he would throw a few shots and circle out. Condit has never ever fought that way. 

Obviously you can't just blame it all on Condit, Nick didn't do anything to cut the cage off effectively or keep Condit to the fence. You cannot just expect a guy to put his back to the fence and take shots.

So can we all please look at this fight with as little bias as possible, it was a shit fight. Sure people loved it and it was amazing and smart and blah blah mainly because Diaz lost. Had Diaz won a fight that way this place would be going ape shit about how he ran the whole time and Condit won more rounds. However Diaz fans are no different, I scored it for Diaz, but I can see how the you could score three for Carlos. Condit did what he had to for him to get laid on by GSP in a few months, so you can't blame him for that. 

I will however blame them both for a terrible fight. Diaz boxes, he should have known Condit was going to circle and not get caught in a brawl. I can't help but feel like a lot of this gameplan took shape after Cerrone tried to stand in the pocket with Nate. None of that matters though, Condit won a decision point fighting, which like it or not is a valid way to win fights, even if it is boring.


----------



## osmium

deadmanshand said:


> I think this should be called "Pulling a Garcia" from this point. Who cares if they hit as long as they are moving forward and swinging? That's how you win fights.


Diego/Kampmann as well but we are talking about horrible robberies because the judges are mentally retarded. The criteria tells them to not score it that way. Windmilling buffoonery can get you a win if you are lucky enough to get two terrible judges but it isn't that reliable even with the sad state of MMA judging.


----------



## NoYards

Just rewatching the fight .. don't know how anyone can rewatch and then claim that Diaz won the first round.

And Condit wasn't 'running' he was circling away from Diaz's left had ... Diaz even changed stances a number of times to try and prevent that .. didn't work though.


----------



## LL

Of course he came to win a decision, he's not an idiot he knows Diaz is tough as hell, personally I enjoyed the fight, thought it was a pretty damn good one, Diaz and Condit both were entertaining but Condit clearly took the first round, Diaz didn't cut off the cage, didn't try to take him down, and got out-struck and he knew it in the fourth when he started shooting.


----------



## MMsheA

I think people get more frustrated with GSP when it is obvious that he is so much better than his opponent that he could go for the finish without really risking a loss himself.

Also the fact he would have less to lose as he is already established and as we saw when he lost to Matt Serra he would pretty much be guaranteed an instant rematch if he were knocked out whilst taking a risk to finish a fight.

Condit on the other hand was in a very different position that that GSP has been in in recent fights where his style has been criticised (somewhat unfairly IMO) as Condit had everything to gain and lose in that fight.

Had he lost that fight it would be Diaz going for the Title right now, Diaz looking at the Challengers Pay packet and Diaz with a chance to become champ and a chance to really make some big money.

Who knows how far down the list a loss would have taken Condit last night, had he been KO'd he might have taken 2-3 more fights just to get back to where he was before the fight.

Diaz is also a very dangerous opponent, at least on paper the equal of Condit if not the favourite going in to the fight so I think perhaps it was more understandable that he employed a game plan to limit Diaz's chances of damaging him and beating him without being dragged into a war.

Condit was always working even if he was not going for the kill, it wasn't like ANderson's silva's display in Dubai or even the first min or so against Beltfort.

Then again also Condit hasn't done this several fights in a row, perhaps if he started to fight like this all the time more fans would grow frustrated with it.


----------



## cookiefritas

GSP is a nice guy in the ring at all times, he seems to lack the killer instinct of most champions, but he is so technical that he makes it work regardless. I am sure that deep down, GSP does not wish to inflict permanent damage to his opponent. GSP does the stick and move and actually manages to wobble most of his opponents, and most of the times does not finish the fight. I am sure that had Condit seen his prey (Diaz) hurt, he would have gone for the kill, but on this last fight, that never happened. 

I prefer champions with granite chins and KO power, but not everyone has that natural ability. If you have average chin and average power, I don't see any logic in engaging in a slug fest with someone that does.


----------



## Howeman89

Carlos Condit had a good game-plan I can see why the judges scored it in favour based on effective striking, he won rounds 3 and 4 clearly, but on the other hand i can see why Diaz is left frustrated, he pushed the action, he in-hindsight had the Octagon control, but fell short on effective striking, but if you look at fights like Sanchez v Kampmann & Jackson v Machida, where one fighter landed more effective strikes but the other fighter won based on aggression and Octagon control


----------



## Life B Ez

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Of course he came to win a decision, he's not an idiot he knows Diaz is tough as hell, personally I enjoyed the fight, thought it was a pretty damn good one, Diaz and Condit both were entertaining but Condit clearly took the first round, Diaz didn't cut off the cage, didn't try to take him down, and got out-struck and he knew it in the fourth when he started shooting.


I'll have to really watch the first again, I always have a hard time scoring the first in fights that I think are going to be barn burners because you get too hyped up and forget what happened in the first couple minutes.


----------



## Alessia

Howeman89 said:


> Carlos Condit had a good game-plan I can see why the judges scored it in favour based on effective striking, he won rounds 3 and 4 clearly, but on the other hand i can see why Diaz is left frustrated, he pushed the action, he in-hindsight had the Octagon control, but fell short on effective striking, but if you look at fights like Sanchez v Kampmann & Jackson v Machida, where one fighter landed more effective strikes but the other fighter won based on aggression and Octagon control


Diaz most certainly did not have octagon control. Condit was the one to dictate where this fight took place. 

If Diaz had the control Condit would have had his back against the cage eating combos the entire fight.

Move forward does not equal octagon control.


----------



## box

Hopefully Condit Ko's Gsp, we all can still win.


----------



## LL

Life B Ez said:


> I'll have to really watch the first again, I always have a hard time scoring the first in fights that I think are going to be barn burners because you get too hyped up and forget what happened in the first couple minutes.


I'm the exact same way, I can really only score takedowns and knock downs because I'm way too into it to break down and analyze the strikes. Diaz was obviously the more aggressive fighter but when it comes to Octagon Control does a handful of seconds really count? What about Condit keeping the fight away from the cage for the majority? It's just a bunch of subjective opinions really. Everyone knew the fight was gonna be close so a situation like this should have been expected.


----------



## Life B Ez

TheLyotoLegion said:


> I'm the exact same way, I can really only score takedowns and knock downs because I'm way too into it to break down and analyze the strikes. Diaz was obviously the more aggressive fighter but when it comes to Octagon Control does a handful of seconds really count? What about Condit keeping the fight away from the cage for the majority? It's just a bunch of subjective opinions really. Everyone knew the fight was gonna be close so a situation like this should have been expected.


I knew it would be close, at least hoped it would be, but I didn't expect a circle jerk of a fight. There was maybe five solid exchanges between the two of them. It was just such an epic letdown to watch two of the best strikers at WW walk in circles for five rounds. By the end of the third I could tell it was going to decision that Diaz didn't have a gameplan to cut the cage off and Condit wasn't going to get drawn in, I had no reaction to anything by the end, I just sat there and stared at the tv.


----------



## cookiefritas

NoYards said:


> Just rewatching the fight .. don't know how anyone can rewatch and then claim that Diaz won the first round.
> 
> And Condit wasn't 'running' he was circling away from Diaz's left had ... Diaz even changed stances a number of times to try and prevent that .. didn't work though.


QFT

Also, those who claim that Condit was throwing baby kicks that did no damage must have never taken a leg kick before. I am sure that Diaz right leg must be a purple mess today.


----------



## Life B Ez

cookiefritas said:


> QFT
> 
> Also, those who claim that Condit was throwing baby kicks that did no damage must have never taken a leg kick before. I am sure that Diaz right leg must be a purple mess today.


There were slapping legs kicks with the foot, I take leg kicks everyday, when they smack like that they don't hurt nearly as bad. Nick's leg was hardly red at the end of the fight. If those had been solid deep leg kicks Nick would have shown signs of taking them long before the fifth round.


----------



## TraMaI

It was a purple mess halfway through the third. You can see the welt above his knee lol.


----------



## Rauno

Alessia said:


> Diaz most certainly did not have octagon control. Condit was the one to dictate where this fight took place.
> 
> If Diaz had the control Condit would have had his back against the cage eating combos the entire fight.
> 
> Move forward does not equal octagon control.


Neither does backing up for the better time of the fight. If there was someone who decided where it took place, it was still Diaz.


----------



## MMsheA

From a fans point of view we all want to see exciting fights and ko's and subs.

It has been something that I thought could happen to MMA in the future for many years as it grew in stature, that basically fights would start to become too important where by a fighter would fear a loss as being damaging to his career prospects beyond being entertaining to the fans.

Its like boxing, sometimes fighters will only get one shot, the UFC is protected from this as all the match making and contracts are in house so to speak, no need for purse bidding and fighters can't duck fights and throw their title in the bid to avoid a fighter like Bowe did Lennox.

GSP seems to have been the first fighter, who values his persona as an unbeaten champ (yea I know he's not unbeaten) as vital to his marketability beyond his desire to achieve all he can in the sport and perhaps this is why we see him wrestling more and risking less, not taking superfights against Silva and perferring to build a safer legacy etc.

Same goes for Condit I feel, there was simply too much at stake last night for him to risk it all and stand and bang with a striker as dangerous as Diaz (it did actually cross my mind that after the Cerrone fight with Nate that someone with a kickboxing style might not want to fight the same way against Nick as ultimately it lead to a defeat)

Perhaps a way to combat this becoming more and more a part of the UFC is to offer bigger incentives toward entertaining fights, bigger KO bonuses and perhaps rewarding exciting competitive fighters with bigger better matches even if they win some/lose some etc.

Like I said I don't think Condit was unexciting yesterday, he thought a smart and stylish fight in my eyes and the fight was entertaining in its own right, but I do understand the OP's sentiment from a fans perspective as clearly the fight was not as entertaining as it was expected to be or built up to be.


----------



## khoveraki

This fight wasnt even controversial. 


Reminds me of how Bisping thought he beat Wand.


----------



## The Horticulturist

Nah, it was a good fight. People just forget what it's like to see two evenly matched guys fight once in awhile. 

It sucks Diaz couldn't do what he normally does but Condit did a pretty great job of nullifying his entire game and walking away with the title + money.

You're supposed to take risks to impress the fans when you're on the undercard or trying to earn a title fight.. Condit already did that in 2011.. and he did exactly what he should have done last night. 

If Condit rocked Diaz and had an opportunity to finish he would have jumped all over it and I piss on any MMA fan who thinks otherwise.


----------



## BrianRClover

MMsheA said:


> I think people get more frustrated with GSP when it is obvious that he is so much better than his opponent that he could go for the finish without really risking a loss himself.
> 
> Also the fact he would have less to lose as he is already established and as we saw when he lost to Matt Serra he would pretty much be guaranteed an instant rematch if he were knocked out whilst taking a risk to finish a fight.
> 
> Condit on the other hand was in a very different position that that GSP has been in in recent fights where his style has been criticised (somewhat unfairly IMO) as Condit had everything to gain and lose in that fight.
> 
> Had he lost that fight it would be Diaz going for the Title right now, Diaz looking at the Challengers Pay packet and Diaz with a chance to become champ and a chance to really make some big money.
> 
> Who knows how far down the list a loss would have taken Condit last night, had he been KO'd he might have taken 2-3 more fights just to get back to where he was before the fight.
> 
> Diaz is also a very dangerous opponent, at least on paper the equal of Condit if not the favourite going in to the fight so I think perhaps it was more understandable that he employed a game plan to limit Diaz's chances of damaging him and beating him without being dragged into a war.
> 
> Condit was always working even if he was not going for the kill, it wasn't like ANderson's silva's display in Dubai or even the first min or so against Beltfort.
> 
> Then again also Condit hasn't done this several fights in a row, perhaps if he started to fight like this all the time more fans would grow frustrated with it.


Word!


----------



## khoveraki

Rauno said:


> Neither does backing up for the better time of the fight. If there was someone who decided where it took place, it was still Diaz.


No. Condit brought the fight to the middle of the octagon constantly. If Diaz decided where it went, the fight would have happened against the cage.


----------



## Howeman89

Rauno said:


> Neither does backing up for the better time of the fight. If there was someone who decided where it took place, it was still Diaz.


Thats how I saw it, majority of the fight was on the feet, Diaz was the one who took the centre of it and pressed forward, forced Condit on the back-foot, and in short intervals pressed Condit against the cage and looked for the take-down....Condit won on landing more effective strikes, that's it.....His game-plan worked, it wasn't the most convincing performance, immediate re-match would bring more out of both fighters and I think they both could of shown alot more of what their capable of


----------



## Mckeever

All things said and done, Nick is still an OG :thumb02:


----------



## Rauno

Let's stay polite people. 

This fight didn't live out to the expectations imo. Diaz is always game and comes in to scrap whoever his put against. Then you have a man called natural born killer who has 25+ stoppages. Put them together and your going to expect a war. Diaz couldn't quite do what he wanted to do and Condit was fighting extremely smart, avoiding Diaz's biggest strengths. These are the reasons why people are arguing. You could say Nick won it and you can say Carlos won it. Too bad this fight wasn't longer.


----------



## Alessia

khoveraki said:


> No. Condit brought the fight to the middle of the octagon constantly. If Diaz decided where it went, the fight would have happened against the cage.


This.



Howeman89 said:


> Thats how I saw it, majority of the fight was on the feet, Diaz was the one who took the centre of it and pressed forward, forced Condit on the back-foot, and in short intervals pressed Condit against the cage and looked for the take-down....Condit won on landing more effective strikes, that's it.....His game-plan worked, it wasn't the most convincing performance, immediate re-match would bring more out of both fighters and I think they both could of shown alot more of what their capable of


No Diaz did not take the center, Condit took the center and Diaz pushed forward to try and get the fight against the cage every time. This fight took place how Condit wanted it and it kept happening because Diaz has the inability to change his game plan in the middle of the fight.

Also why should Diaz get an immediate rematch? He was outclassed last night and showed nothing that suggests the fight would have went any other way.


----------



## NoYards

Round 2, could have gone either way, but Conduit came on at the end of the round so that might have influenced the judges to give it to him

Round 3: Diaz started off strong, but conduit got in a lot more shots, even backing up Diaz at times ... again Conduit was 'circling' out of range of the left, not running, the only real backing up was out of range of Diaz's weak high kicks. This was clearly Condit's round I don't see how the 2 judges gave it to Diaz.

Round 4: Condit started off making Diaz look like an amateur. Mid round Conduit stuffed Diaz's TDA. Conduit was pulling off combos almost at will. Diaz had maybe 2 combo attempts. Clearly Condits round.

Round 5: Conduit starts off very stong again. Diaz was throwing some attempted body kicks that were hitting Condit on the arm. Diaz was throwing a bunch of weak sauce kicks tht weren't landing, Conduit was landing good combos again when he wasn't picking Diaz to pieces from the outside. 8o seconds left Diaz drags Condit to the ground from behind, which Condit reversed ... unless you give 80 seconds of ineffectual ground game more weight than 220 seconds of standing dominance then this was Condits round as well.

Worst case it was 3 round to 2 (give Diaz the close 2nd round and the "not so close, but he had the take down" 5th) for Condit.

People need to match the match again, there's no way there was any question whether Conduit won or not ... not even close really.


----------



## Leed

khoveraki said:


> *This fight wasnt even controversial.*
> 
> 
> Reminds me of how Bisping thought he beat Wand.


This. If there was a controversial fight last night, it was Pierce-Koscheck.


----------



## Rauno

Leed said:


> This. If there was a controversial fight last night, it was Pierce-Koscheck.


Matter of opinion i guess. The fact that there are 50% of people who though Diaz won and 50% that Condit won say's it's a bit controversial though.


----------



## Steroid Steve

It was smart on Condit's part to not stand and trade with Diaz. I can't blame him for following the gameplan to a T last night. Now would I have wanted Condit to have went after Diaz more? Sure, why not, but it wasn't in his best interest to do so. Diaz won most of the few exchanges they had, so it wouldn't have been smart for Condit to engage Diaz like that.


----------



## oldfan

Rauno said:


> Matter of opinion i guess. The fact that there are 50% of people who though Diaz won and 50% that Condit won say's it's a bit controversial though.


That only proves that 50% of people are below the median intelligence.


----------



## MCMAP Wizzard

Life B Ez said:


> There were slapping legs kicks with the foot, I take leg kicks everyday, when they smack like that they don't hurt nearly as bad. Nick's leg was hardly red at the end of the fight. If those had been solid deep leg kicks Nick would have shown signs of taking them long before the fifth round.


Yeah if those leg kicks hurt Diaz he would've crumpled to one of them.... oh wait, he did.


----------



## Howeman89

Alessia said:


> This.
> 
> 
> 
> No Diaz did not take the center, Condit took the center and Diaz pushed forward to try and get the fight against the cage every time. This fight took place how Condit wanted it and it kept happening because Diaz has the inability to change his game plan in the middle of the fight.
> 
> Also why should Diaz get an immediate rematch? He was outclassed last night and showed nothing that suggests the fight would have went any other way.


The only time Condit took the centre of cage was in the last 2 rounds in intervals, Some instances he was running away from Diaz when he pressed foreward to exchange, and I think a re-match would work as GSP won't be back til November, this fight both fighters didn't leave it all out there to prove who truly is Number 1 contender in my opinion, I think Diaz under estimated Condit, and Condit played it to safe, if he tries to employ a similar form of attack against GSP he'll lose hands down


----------



## Yonidass

*Fantastic Fight*

The conversation between Mike Goldberg and Joe Rogan at 2:15 of the third round sums up what went on in this fight:

MG: "It is Condit who's thrown more strikes thus far."
JR: "… Condit's landing a lot of very good strikes. Nick Diaz is certainly pressing the attack, controlling the center of the octagon, and pushing the pace, but Carlos is doing a really good job of evading Nick's strikes and landing his own."

That's pretty much what happened the whole night, with no adjustments from Diaz's camp.

And anyone who didn't see what Carlos did tonight - countering Diaz's attack as he came in (out striking Diaz much of the time), and then maneuvering out of range (usually landing a few more strikes on the way out), simply doesn't understand the first thing about MMA.

This was one of the best tactical executions I've seen in a long time and my appreciation for Carlos just went up even more.

Brilliant fight.


----------



## DJ Syko

Rauno said:


> Matter of opinion i guess. The fact that there are 50% of people who though Diaz won and 50% that Condit won say's it's a bit controversial though.


i would say 90% of the 50% that thought diaz won, dont understand mma very well and are just pissed off because it wasnt a 'war'. If you cant see how he won, then just look at the stats.


----------



## Alessia

Howeman89 said:


> The only time Condit took the centre of cage was in the last 2 rounds in intervals, Some instances he was running away from Diaz when he pressed foreward to exchange, and I think a re-match would work as GSP won't be back til November, this fight both fighters didn't leave it all out there to prove who truly is Number 1 contender in my opinion, I think Diaz under estimated Condit, and Condit played it to safe, if he tries to employ a similar form of attack against GSP he'll lose hands down


Condit took the center every time Diaz got him against the cage briefly and when Diaz stopped pressing forward Condit would win the exchanges in the center. Nick had no choice, but to keep pressing forward hoping he could keep Condit against the cage. 

Diaz didn't underestimate Condit, Diaz just showed that outside of beating people who are content to lean against and let him tee off, he isn't that dangerous. 

The number one contender is Condit, he went out there imposed his game plan, dictated the fight, and got it done. Something Diaz couldn't do. Diaz did nothing in that fight that warrants an immediate rematch. Anyone who thinks that is kidding themselves.


----------



## MMsheA

Steroid Steve said:


> It was smart on Condit's part to not stand and trade with Diaz. I can't blame him for following the gameplan to a T last night. Now would I have wanted Condit to have went after Diaz more? Sure, why not, but it wasn't in his best interest to do so. Diaz won most of the few exchanges they had, so it wouldn't have been smart for Condit to engage Diaz like that.


I think had Condit tried to stand and bang with Diaz the fight might have gone very similar to Nate against Cerrone

Cerrone has a much wider range of skills than Nate and he was destroying him at will with thus leg kicks yet still by staying in punching range the whole time he was simply contiously peppered with punches to the face.

Nick has the same style as Nate but is actually better at it, I think had Condit stayed within punching range and looked for the knock out actively he may well have found himself in a similar situation where he would have success from time to time but Nick would have been constantly scoring with less obviously effective strikes but ones that would just add up and keep scoring and he'd quite possibly be looking at a fight of the night cheque right now but no shot at the Gold and GSP.

So really you have to ask yourself this.... was Condit right to fight the way he did and out skill Diaz by fighting a different type of fight, one that negated Nicks best skills and took away any advantage he may have had to ensure the W and move on to bigger and better things or should he have taken more risks for the one fight to please the fans and put on the show?

If you were Condit or his coach what would you have done? The macho show to prove who was the best in the stand and trade battle? or out manoeuvre and skill your opponent and stick to what was working so that in the bigger picture you are the one fighting for the Championship and perhaps set yourself and your family up for life with the money you stand to generate if you win.

It would have been nice to have seen a war of attrition in their last night, we would have loved to see another Shogun/Hendo type fight but I don't think its right to be hating on Condit or his coach for the way events unfolded considering what was at stake.

What needs to happen is this, fighters who want to stand and trade need to develop game plans that ensure they can drag oppponets into a war if their plan is to avoid one.


----------



## NoYards

Had to have a third look at round 3 (the one 2 judges gave to Diaz.) I don't see how they could have done that. The first minute was even, Diaz had a good 2nd minutes, and the rest of the round went by far to Condit ... the only thing I can think of is they thought the slip and fall by Condit in the last couple of seconds of the round was a result of a strike by Diaz, which it obviously wasn't.


----------



## K R Y

AmdM said:


> Condit = The natural born Runner


I love that this is from a big Machida fan :laugh:


----------



## oBMTo

Condit won this easily, no controversy. It just Diaz and his fellow whining babies crying that is creating any controversy.


----------



## Rauno

K R Y said:


> I love that this is from a big Machida fan :laugh:


That's because Machida is _elusive_. :thumb02:


----------



## Mckeever

BSL utters my exact thoughts. He actually makes some pretty solid points on the size of the octagon and then the boxing ring.


----------



## zarny

What a ridiculous statement.

Condit's gameplan was brilliant. Beautiful combinations, head kicks, went for several flying knees, spinning elbows and spinning backfists.

Nothing boring about that imo. Carlos simply isn't stupid. Only an idiot stands in the middle of the octagon to just exchange punches and see who falls first.

Diaz was outsmarted and exposed. Nick thrives on cutting off the octagon and overwhelming opponents with volume. When that didn't work he had nothing until the final minute when he Condit's back.


----------



## box

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Of course he came to win a decision, he's not an idiot he knows Diaz is tough as hell, personally I enjoyed the fight, thought it was a pretty damn good one, Diaz and Condit both were entertaining but Condit clearly took the first round, Diaz didn't cut off the cage, didn't try to take him down, and got out-struck and he knew it in the fourth when he started shooting.


I agree Condit had the better gameplan, for sure. People saying he outstruke and out classed Diaz, in a compustrike number sense, yes he did, but in meaningful strikes, nope (except round 3, 4, and the start of 5). In all honesty, Condit could have taken Diaz out, but the risk of losing a title shot, I get it, he wanted to land enough leg kicks to out point Diaz. The only head snapping solid shots were landed by Diaz, and the ground advantage to Diaz, showing his mma is superior :hug:, his gameplan however, not so much, he got worked by the point system.


----------



## deadmanshand

I actually loved this fight. It was a far more intelligent fighter completely shutting his opponent down. Condit won damn near every striking exchange, controlled the octagon by keeping the fight exactly where he wanted it, and imposed his plan the entire time. He hit Diaz with punches, knees, kicks, elbows... Diaz landed a couple of punches and threw a few crap kicks. He utterly stuffed Diaz save for the last round - which I scored for Diaz - but the entire rest of that fight was Condit. Hands down. People who say otherwise literally do not understand the fight they watched. They don't understand tactics nor judging criteria. It was a perfectly fought match by Condit.

For all of you disappointed by Condit's performance here's a question. What did you expect him to do? He's going against a guy who's only been koed once and is at least as good a grappler as he is. A guy who's got good hands in the pocket but horrible footwork. What plan would you have used? Go in swinging? The fact is Condit was the better fighter. Diaz lost and a lot of people are bitching because the two didn't get into a slugfest.

Box- not so fast there. Diaz landed maybe three good shots during the fight. I counted ten or more from Condit that snapped Diaz' head back. And what happened when they hit the ground? Oh yeah Diaz ended up defending a leg lock after Condit broke his lock and swept him.


----------



## box

I rewatched rounds 1 and 2 again without the heat of the moment of last night. Diaz pieced Condit up, it wasn't until round 3 when Condit turned it up and started winning.

Why do people praise Condit for fighting like this, and bash Bisping? It's the same thing, just a different person makes it ok since you like him? That's what I don't get about mma fans.


----------



## hellholming

Mckeever said:


> BSL utters my exact thoughts. He actually makes some pretty solid points on the size of the octagon and then the boxing ring.


uuh, a fat guy talking shit trying to be tough. :thumbsup:

all the talk about running that guy has probably never even seen a treadmill.


----------



## Sambo de Amigo

khoveraki said:


> This fight wasnt even controversial.
> 
> 
> Reminds me of how Bisping thought he beat Wand.


Well Bisping was beating Wanderlei up until the last 10 seconds which he couldn't have remembered since he was unconscious for most of it. 

Bisping was the better fighter that night though , anyways on topic this fight wasnt controversial i agree.


----------



## deadmanshand

No. Condit won the first two rounds. Octagon control, effective striking... whole nine yards. He won this fight hands down. How anybody can see it any other way is honestly confusing for me.

For the record I hate Bisping cause he's a tool. Not because of how he fights.


----------



## Budhisten

Hahaha, poor fanboy... Glad our members aren't THAT extreme


----------



## Finnsidious

It is good for GSP, the only ones who think it isn't are guys who think MMA is Tank Abbot fighting some guy from a bar.

MMA isn't fighting, it's a pro sport with a lot on the line. People who want to see blind aggression and haymakers can see those when the bars let out every Friday in the parking lot, and you can watch that for free. You want to watch the best in the world at MMA, pay to watch GSP and Condit.

It's not the same thing, and its kind of incredible how many people still don't get that. Even guys actually doing it, like Diaz.


----------



## Mckeever

hellholming said:


> uuh, a fat guy talking shit trying to be tough. :thumbsup:
> 
> all the talk about running that guy has probably never even seen a treadmill.


He's actually had a few amateur MMA fights I believe. He had a grappling match with Condit's manager too lol. He also hangs out with The Reem so he must be cool.


----------



## Sambo de Amigo

oldfan said:


> That only proves that 50% of people are below the median intelligence.


Honestly i just think its a case of they are fans of Diaz deep down most of them know he lost. 

Also who is the girl in the gif and where is it from raise01::thumb01:


----------



## Life B Ez

It is amazing to me that Diaz hate has turned this fight into a one sided beating, it really is. 

This is a similar to fight to Shogun Machida I. It was very close, where you have to literally judge every exchange of every round to determine a winner, but because people hate Diaz and love Shogun one was a robbery and one was a one sided beatdown.

Btw I'm LOLing hard every time I see one of you who bitches an moans whenever a guy wins a round with a single take down or wins a round by moving forward talking about Condit winning on octagon control. Most of you shit on the term all the time, now it was the thing that made Condit dominate....come on guys.


----------



## hellholming

Condit's manager grapples? 

I'll be damned....


----------



## Ultrashock

It was a clear cut victory in my eyes and it seems as if the judges agreed.

I'm not sure why people are disputing the fact that Condit won the fight. Maybe the fact that some were so dead set on Diaz winning that it clouded their judgement? I don't know.

I picked Diaz to win, but was glad that Carlos won. If I would have put money down on it, would I be sulking and complaining? No, because Condit undoubtedly won the fight.


Also, some people are upset that the fight went the distance with Carlos out-pointing Diaz. This reminds me of an uninformed, drunk in a bar yelling and slurring, "Knock him out" during every fight as if there's no technical aspect to the fight game and it is merely a bloodsport.

Put yourself in Condit's shoes. Why would he go out there and put himself in dangerous waters just to make some fans happy? He's out there to win and if fighting intelligently is wrong, then I don't want to live on this planet anymore. Lol.


----------



## Sambo de Amigo

2zwudz said:


> Why was Condits game plan ok with most fans but when George utilizes his game plan people get chapped. I understand why both fighters have there own idea of what they need to do to win the fight but if George was fighting Diaz last night and George puts a long grueling grind on Diaz ......its not cool? This is just a thought not a poke for a verbal argument.


GSP uses wrestling which universally is considered by most "JUST BLEED" fans as a shitty/cowardly way to win.

Winning is winning though and to be honest any man who has the balls to fight can do what he wants inside the cage as long as he doesnt pull shit like kaleb starnes or like Anderson vs Maia


----------



## Rygu

box said:


> I rewatched rounds 1 and 2 again without the heat of the moment of last night. Diaz pieced Condit up, it wasn't until round 3 when Condit turned it up and started winning.
> 
> Why do people praise Condit for fighting like this, and bash Bisping? It's the same thing, just a different person makes it ok since you like him? That's what I don't get about mma fans.


In my opinion, it's because Bisping point-fights against almost everybody he faces. Condit did this against a guy who has to be one of the most unfinishable guys in MMA. Nick Diaz does not get finished, if he gets rocked, he recovers instantly. Condit knew this.


----------



## deadmanshand

No it wasn't. This was not nearly that close. This was one man unable to do anything save for a takedown he could do nothing with in the fifth round. The entire rest of the fight he was out struck. Where is the closeness? On what criteria besides aggression did he score? 

Effective striking? Nope.

Octagon control? Nope. Walking forward and getting countered is not control.

Damage? Nope.

Aggression? Yes.

Looking at this way how close was this fight really?


----------



## Woodenhead




----------



## Mckeever

hellholming said:


> Condit's manager grapples?
> 
> I'll be damned....


http://www.global-mma.com/t316-bloodstan-lane-vs-malki-kawa-going-down-february-24th-in-miami

At least he can back up his talk and isn't afraid to fight.


----------



## box

rygu said:


> In my opinion, it's because Bisping point-fights against almost everybody he faces. Condit did this against a guy who has to be one of the most unfinishable guys in MMA. Nick Diaz does not get finished, if he gets rocked, he recovers instantly. Condit knew this.


We'll have to see how Condit comes out in his next couple fights. After all he's fighting the biggest point fighter in history in his next fight.


----------



## Rygu

Woodenhead said:


>


See at least we have legit top UFC fighters in this twitter pic. Who cares what Micah Miller, Buchholz, Helwani and Roussey think. 

Those with no bias, no clouded judgement, know Condit won this MMA contest with zero controversy.


----------



## tripster

I did not see octogon control by Diaz. I actually thought Condit controlled the octogon. Controlled the distance, didn;t let Diaz get inside on him, circled away from the fence and landed strikes on his way out 80% of the time. Diaz, walked forward, walked forward, walked forward...


----------



## Hail the Potato

Life B Ez said:


> Btw I'm LOLing hard every time I see one of you who bitches an moans whenever a guy wins a round with a single take down or wins a round by moving forward talking about Condit winning on octagon control. Most of you shit on the term all the time, now it was the thing that made Condit dominate....come on guys.


The way I see it, you have it backwards.
The only way you can give rounds one and two to Diaz are by claiming octagon control (aggression/moving forward).
Effective striking goes to Condit in every round imo (haven't rewatched yet).

I certainly wouldn't call it a one-sided beating though. 
It was a smart, safe fight by Carlos. He showed his wellroundedness by being able to exploit Diaz' weaknesses and stay away from his strengths to edge out a close (but not controversial) decision.

Edit: After rewatching I can see how this decision IS controversial. All rounds besides round 4 (which is 10-9 Condit) could go either way imo, and I leaning towards giving the first 3 rounds to diaz. 
I would definitely like to see a rematch


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Budhisten said:


> Hahaha, poor fanboy... Glad our members aren't THAT extreme


This guy is a proper idiot and exemplifies all that is wrong with modern fans.

And Bloodstain Lane is a fat pile of shite I'd not even waste 30 seconds of my life listening to.


----------



## Mckeever

Canadian Psycho said:


> This guy is a proper idiot and exemplifies all that is wrong with modern fans.
> 
> And Bloodstain Lane is a fat pile of shite I'd not even waste 30 seconds of my life listening to.












Come at him bro.

Bloodstaine is comedy gold and he's actually a knowledgeable combat sports fan.


----------



## tommydaone

deadmanshand said:


> No it wasn't. This was not nearly that close. This was one man unable to do anything save for a takedown he could do nothing with in the fifth round. The entire rest of the fight he was out struck. Where is the closeness? On what criteria besides aggression did he score?
> 
> Effective striking? Nope.
> 
> Octagon control? Nope. Walking forward and getting countered is not control.
> 
> Damage? Nope.
> 
> Aggression? Yes.
> 
> Looking at this way how close was this fight really?


This, I'm a Diaz fan and I still don't see how this fight was close? :confused05:

All I saw was Diaz walking towards Condit, getting tagged and not engaging much

OP this isn't you is it?






Just kidding :hug:


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Hanging out with pro-fighters doesn't make one less of an idiot.

The fact that he's trying so ridiculously hard to look 'street' in that picture tells me everything I need to know about him.


----------



## dlxrevolution

Okay so I just got done watching the fight, and while I don't agree, I do see where Mckeevers coming from.

We all tuned in to see the real Carlos Condit. The Carlos that comes in like a killer. The Carlos that fights to finish no matter who he fights. The Carlos that is a fighters type of fighter. That Carlos Condit didn't show up last night. It's not about a tough man competition and who can take the most punishment, it's about fighters showing up in their true form and fighting the way we have known and loved them for.

However, the problem with this way of looking at MMA, is that Carlos was fighting Nick Diaz. Nick Diaz is a mentally tough fighter, and has an excellent chin. Even if you have incredible KO power, and fight everyone to finish, Nick Diaz is VERY difficult to finish. Just ask Paul Daley. Carlos was much better off fighting with an implemented gameplan designed to out-point Nick Diaz, then to try and go in with his usual killer instinct. And guess what, it worked and now he gets to fight GSP for the title. 

He fought this way last night because he had A LOT to lose. He could've lost a chance of a lifetime to win a UFC championship. Now win he fights GSP, I think he would be better off fighting as a natural born killer rather than the way he fought list night simply because I think once you hit GSP with a good shot, he's not as hard to finish as Nick Diaz is. Also, when he fights GSP, he will have nothing to lose. 

I think you're forgetting that Greg Jackson was his coach when he finished all of his fights. When he was dubbed "The Natural Born Killer", who do you think his coach was? Greg Jackson. Greg doesn't always coach his guys to when by points, but in this instance, Carlos had no other choice.

Rather you like it or not, MMA is all about gameplans and stylistic match-ups. I'm not saying you shouldn't be an MMA fan, I'm just saying that that's an aspect of MMA that you're going to have to learn to accept.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

I do love that Condit is a 'timid points fighter' now. I wonder how silly some people are going to feel when he's back to his old self in his next fight.


----------



## xxpillowxxjp

Bendo said it best.

Condit completely crushed him.100%. He landed more kicks then Diaz landed punches. And all the spinning elbows/back fists he missed, should not be counted against him. It was the perfect gameplan. He knew Diaz would push forward so he used superior footwork, leg kicks to slow him down AND to stay outside diaz's reach. As for the elbows and back fist, they were to threaten nick. whether they were landing or not, they were preventing nick from being able to push forward. People talk about a masterful performance, people talk about a master game plan, and someone that has the potential to beat gsp. That is Carlos condit. Without a doubt. I have always written off gsp's opponents, but if anyone can honestly say condit has no chance, they didn't see the fight last night. They didn't see a man that can formulate a game plan, stick to it, and not gas out... who does that sound like? GSP. But last night that was Carlos condit.


----------



## LL

K R Y said:


> I love that this is from a big Machida fan :laugh:


Condit wishes he was as elusive as Machida, Machida would do laps around his ass.


----------



## tap nap or snap




----------



## TheNinja

Yeah..I' lost all respect for Condit tonight..He fought like a Bitch


----------



## NoYards

I rewatched the fight as well. For the first round I scored it Conduit easily. The second could have gone either way, but Condit came on at the end of the round which may have influenced the judges to give it to him, but I could see someone thinking Diaz should ave won that round.

The one I don't understand is the 3rd, which 2 judges gave to Diaz ... not a chance, except for a few flourishes in the 2nd minute by Diaz, Condit owned Diaz ... maybe the slip and fall by Condit in the last 8 seconds was seen by them as a result of a Diaz strike, but that's the only thing I can see that could have caused that much of a bad result.

The fourth isn't in question, Condit all the way.

The fifth was 220 seconds of Condit dominating the standup game and 80 seconds of ground control (that was eventually reversed) for Diaz ... I suppose one could make an argument for Diaz out of that ... I wouldn't argue too much as take downs are given plenty of wieght in the UFC.

Worst case IMO it was 3 round to 2 for Condit, but I could easily see a 50-45 result for Condit without the need to 'cook the book'.

Even the most ultimate worst case would have been a very close 3-2 for Diaz (give him the 2nd because it was close, the 3rd because the judges saw it that way, and the 5th because of the take down, which 2 of the judges didn't weigh very heavily giving the round to Condit,) but even if that were the case it would still be a very close decision for Diaz, and if you lose a decision in what for the sake of argument was a close 3-2 victory, that still is not anything approaching a 'stolen' fight.

Condit set a record for leg kicks in that fight; landed more kicks and strikes overall and in each of the rounds except for the second round where Diaz held a slight advantage in number ad percentage of strikes ... Condit executed his game plan and Diaz couldn't adjust. 

There is no controversy, only people who can't accept reality.

ETA: oh, and as for those coming into this looking for a toe-to-toe slug-fest, that's your own fault ... I was expecting Condit to adjust to fight Diaz's style and Diaz to be Diaz. How he would do that and how that would work out was up for grabs, but to think Condit would stand and exchange blows with a dude that shown he can't be phased by blows? That would be suicide and stupid, and I don't see Condit as either suicidal or stupid.


----------



## Mckeever

Canadian Psycho said:


> Hanging out with pro-fighters doesn't make one less of an idiot.
> 
> The fact that he's trying so ridiculously hard to look 'street' in that picture tells me everything I need to know about him.







Comedy gold.


----------



## Ultrashock

Canadian Psycho said:


> I do love that Condit is a 'timid points fighter' now. I wonder how silly some people are going to feel when he's back to his old self in his next fight.


I know, right? Apparently, people haven't heard of game plans. You don't fight the same fighter every outing. Different fighters have different skill sets and you must plan/execute accordingly. 

Actually, fighting the way he did showed a lot of respect for Diaz. Not respecting your opponent's strengths will land you in the prelims or possibly on unemployment.

I hate to go back to preaching basics, but come on people.


----------



## tripster

I prefer a tactical fight. As a viewer I like to try and figure the figher's strategy and as the rounds progress and it becomes clear I like to see which fighter will be able to stick to his gameplan and prevail and win the fight. I think it is the future of MMA. As MMA and UFC progress and evolve (at a phenomenal pace), the tactical, stratetic fighter will eventually become the more common fighter and we will be entertained with incredible athletes delivering astounding performances. I really believe the brawler will dissapear from the landscape in similar fashion to the Tank Abbotts, Vanderlei Silva's and others.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

I just hope Chael Sonnen doesn't retire if - by some act of God - he loses to Anderson Silva. With Brock and now potentially Nick gone, I'll have no more anti-heroes to root for!


----------



## HexRei

xxpillowxxjp said:


> Bendo said it best.
> 
> Condit completely crushed him.100%. He landed more kicks then Diaz landed punches. And all the spinning elbows/back fists he missed, should not be counted against him. It was the perfect gameplan. He knew Diaz would push forward so he used superior footwork, leg kicks to slow him down AND to stay outside diaz's reach. As for the elbows and back fist, they were to threaten nick. whether they were landing or not, they were preventing nick from being able to push forward. People talk about a masterful performance, people talk about a master game plan, and someone that has the potential to beat gsp. That is Carlos condit. Without a doubt. I have always written off gsp's opponents, but if anyone can honestly say condit has no chance, they didn't see the fight last night. They didn't see a man that can formulate a game plan, stick to it, and not gas out... who does that sound like? GSP. But last night that was Carlos condit.



He did not "completely crush, 100%" Nick, lol. It was actually a pretty close fight


----------



## Calminian

*I had Condit winning four rounds*

<rant>And round 1 was really close, could have been a draw. Yeah, I suppose the first two could have gone either way, so no biggie, but frankly, I though Diaz's striking absolutely sucked. The fact that a guy walks forward the entire round doesn't mean squat. Barely landed anything the entire fight. How he or any of his fans are whining about the decision is beyond me. He got outclassed. </rant>


----------



## Rusko




----------



## aerius

What is there to be upset about? Did we get a complete judging cock-up on the Bisping-Hamill level? Did we get 14 minutes of clinching and standing around like Mir vs. Crocop? Was it 5 rounds of buttflopping as in Silva vs. Leites? Did both fighters gas hard after 2 minutes and spend the rest of the fight sucking air with their hands on their knees? No. None of that happened.

As far as I can tell people bought into the UFC hype and expected a fight that would top the Shogun-Hendo war, and when that didn't happen they were disappointed. Yeah, it would be freakin' awesome if the fight went down as hyped, but we shouldn't count on it and set such unrealistic expectations.


----------



## DragonStriker

I was more upset by the Bruce Leeroy fight cause he actually won that fight Diaz lost.


----------



## Calminian

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Of course he came to win a decision, he's not an idiot he knows Diaz is tough as hell, personally I enjoyed the fight, thought it was a pretty damn good one, Diaz and Condit both were entertaining but Condit clearly took the first round, Diaz didn't cut off the cage, didn't try to take him down, and got out-struck and he knew it in the fourth when he started shooting.


Well said. I've never understood all the whining about winning a decision. Condit fought a great fight and outclassed Diaz. End of story.


----------



## xxpillowxxjp

HexRei said:


> He did not "completely crush, 100%" Nick, lol. It was actually a pretty close fight


I respectfully disagree, and here is my reasoning. 

Diaz's game plan was to pressure condit, cut him off, and wear him down. He only cut him off ONCE in 25 mins, and took him down and got his back for one minute. So for 1 minute 15 seconds ~, Diaz imposed his game plan. The other 23 mins 45 seconds, condit imposed his. If it was gsp instead of condit, with the same performance people would be clamoring about how gsp destroyed Diaz.


----------



## aerius

tripster said:


> As MMA and UFC progress and evolve (at a phenomenal pace), the tactical, stratetic fighter will eventually become the more common fighter and we will be entertained with incredible athletes delivering astounding performances. I really believe the brawler will dissapear from the landscape in similar fashion to the Tank Abbotts, Vanderlei Silva's and others.


The interesting part is that even Shogun & Wandy are using strategies and gameplans in their fights. We saw how Shogun was able to stay patient and attack the legs & body in his first fight against Machida, and when he got robbed by the judges he made some adjustments and got the KO in the rematch. Then you look at Wandy's fight against Cung Le where he kept the distance open and used more sideways movement and circling to try and avoid the spinning kicks & attacks. And when he saw an opening he closed in fast & attacked hard so that Cung Le couldn't get off any counters.

You have a good point about the evolution of MMA, unless you're Anderson Silva you can't really fight at the top levels on instinct alone, you need a strategy and a gameplan. Even Jon Jones makes some adjustments to his style for each of his opponents. And as much as I enjoyed the Shogun-Hendo war, I get just as much satisfaction from a high level tactical fight such as Shogun-Machida 1.


----------



## box

I get the point Condit imposed his gameplan, but it's like Diaz didn't land any shots when people say that. When in fact he landed more to the head and body, and pushed forward the whole time? The leg kicks did nothing more than show up as a stat, he didn't stay long enough to put any power in them


----------



## SM33

Many of Condit's strikes that people are seeing as fight deciders, happened in the fourth, not throughout. Meaning they won him that round, not the fight.

A large portion of Condit's strikes were leg kicks, and many of these were feelers, ineffective taps. Clever way to beef up your Compustrike stats, but it won't fool everyone.

Basically, everyone who has never fought or trained is creaming their pants because Condit circled off the fence , threw some pretty kicks and span around like a Colly on crack. Fact is, he was getting punched in the head when he moved off the fence, he was throwing his fancy kicks out of range, and his spinning attacks were nearly completely unsuccessful.

Don't get me wrong, Condit landed a fair amount of solid kicks and punches, but they were mainly in the third and fourth rounds. He did land strikes in the other rounds, of course, but not enough to outweigh Nick's own strikes/pressure/grappling attacks.

After watching the fight several times now, taking into account EFFECTIVE striking/grappling/aggression/octagon control and not just reading Fightmetric, I have to give Diaz rounds 1,2,5, Condit rounds 3,4. I'm even tempted to score the third 10-10, and the judges shouldn't be so reluctant to issue these.

But I suppose we should expect this by now.


----------



## SideWays222

xxpillowxxjp said:


> I respectfully disagree, and here is my reasoning.
> 
> Diaz's game plan was to pressure condit, cut him off, and wear him down. He only cut him off ONCE in 25 mins, and took him down and got his back for one minute. So for 1 minute 15 seconds ~, Diaz imposed his game plan. The other 23 mins 45 seconds, condit imposed his. If it was gsp instead of condit, with the same performance people would be clamoring about how gsp destroyed Diaz.


But you arnt looking at it in a realistic way. Im with you in that Condit CLEARLY won that fight. But rounds 1 and 2 even though unable to corner Condit, Diaz was still able to get the better of the exchanges. Condit was backing up but unable to counter Diaz as Diaz comes in. So that is NOT implementing your gameplan. So Diaz took rd 1 and 2 and not only 2min.


----------



## Killz

This thread is a failure on so many levels. Shame on youDiaz fans.


----------



## box

SideWays222 said:


> But you arnt looking at it in a realistic way. Im with you in that Condit CLEARLY won that fight. But rounds 1 and 2 even though unable to corner Condit, Diaz was still able to get the better of the exchanges. Condit was backing up but unable to counter Diaz as Diaz comes in. So that is NOT implementing your gameplan. So Diaz took rd 1 and 2 and not only 2min.


We usually don't agree, but i'm glad you saw the first 2 rounds like I did. Diaz got the better of every striking exchange, and was cutting Condit off for those 2 rounds, it wasn't until round 3 where Condit escaped and countered well.


----------



## jonnyg4508

I just want to know how wrestlers are able to take a guy down once and do nothing with it...and awarded a win. That is how Diaz lost many of times.

Yet in the 5th round. Condit may have had a little advantage striking...nothing clear. And Nick gets the takedown...controls him for a minute and a half. Takes his back easy. And is threatening with a submission. And people don't give him the round?

Why when wrestlers get a takedown and just lay there they get the round? Why when Nick got the takedown and went right into a dominant position looking for a sub and he doesn't get the round?

Never will understand which takedowns actually count. If people want to give one of the 1st 2 rounds then 3rd and 4th to Condit...fine. But i have no clue how Condit wins the 5th round in anyones eyes. I feel people just carried the 4th round over to the 5th round. 4th round Condit clearly won, the 5th round he clearly lost. 

1st, 2nd, and 5th to Diaz. I have watched the fight a few times and I can't see it any different.


----------



## SideWays222

box said:


> We usually don't agree, but i'm glad you saw the first 2 rounds like I did. Diaz got the better of every striking exchange, and was cutting Condit off for those 2 rounds, it wasn't until round 3 where Condit escaped and countered well.


Im actually a pretty bright guy if you can get past the sprinkles of assholeness. :confused05:


----------



## jonnyg4508

Just so us Diaz backers don't look so bad. Many respectable pros had Diaz winning as well. Even some girl fighters.

----------------------------------------------------
Matt Lindland
Great fight Diaz 1,2,5 Condit 3,4

Pat Miletich
That decision was an absolute joke. At best, Condit won 2 rounds

Mike Ciesnolevicz
Dan Hendo, Jens Pulver, Pat Miletich all world champs agree Diaz win. Good enough for me!! A lot of judges don't even train

Josh Neer
Wow. Nick got robbed 4-1 Diaz. Carlos was doing the Forrest Gump

Daniel Cormier
Didn't say it was a horrible decision. Just said I disagreed. Condit actually was running in the cage.

Ronda Rousey
If I wanted to see aman run for 25 minutes I'd go to a track meet. Diaz is the real champ, what a bullshit fight

Jens Pulver
IMO @nickdiaz209 had it 48-47.

Marloes Coenen
Round 3: Nick. Condit's fighting strategy is so ******* annoying! I like men who fight like.. men. Not ones who dance like Billy Elliot

Cody McKenzie
Wow really goes to show you how bad these judges suck Carlos ran the entire time



Cesar Gracie also claims that "Chuck Liddell and Anderson Silva sitting ringside had Diaz winning. Champions know really who won."


----------



## BodyHead

Man, it's gotten ugly out there for the Diaz fans. I like Diaz but Condit clearly won. Sherdog has gone full retard with hate.


----------



## jonnyg4508

I don't understand why all of you guys and Ceceil focking Peoples are right. Yet, Diaz backers and guys like Corimer, Miletich, and Dan Henderson are wrong and delusional? 

Fighters who know what it is like to be in there are saying Condit ran the whole fight? Are they bias? None of those people mentioned besides Neer and Ronda have any relationships with Nick Diaz, yet they say he won the fight? Are they ridiculous too?

It was a close fight. But people that say Diaz won aren't exactly crazy. Some of the best of all time agree with Diaz winning that fight.


----------



## SideWays222

Many pros dont know shit about the scoring Criteria. Its why most of them are obviously losing but still fight as tentatively as round 1. Its crazy... Carlos Condit CLEARLY won the fight. No amount of bitching or crying is going to change that.


----------



## jonnyg4508

SideWays222 said:


> Many pros dont know shit about the scoring Criteria. Its why most of them are obviously losing but still fight as tentatively as round 1. Its crazy... Carlos Condit CLEARLY won the fight. No amount of bitching or crying is going to change that.


Alright.

Well I'll be wrong with Corimer, Chuck, Anderson, Neer, Pulver, and Joe Lauzon.

You can be "right" with a bunch of forum goers and Cecil Peoples. 

I'm totally cool with that.


----------



## Leed

jonnyg4508 said:


> Alright.
> 
> Well I'll be wrong with Corimer, Chuck, Anderson, Neer, Pulver, and Joe Lauzon.
> 
> You can be "right" with a bunch of forum goers and Cecil Peoples.
> 
> I'm totally cool with that.


Forum goers and Cecil Peoples? How about Dana White, Ben Henderson, Gray Maynard, Brian Stann, Jon Fitch.... not that it matters, but you obviously think it does.


----------



## Hammerlock2.0

As a fan of both guys I really don't care who won and why but I just hope Condit stops fighting like this as soon as possible. That wasn't really what I want to see from a guy I love to watch because he fights to finish every time he's out there. 

Personally I had it a draw. Diaz won the first two rounds easily. He got the better of every exchange and didn't really get hit except for some leg kicks. Couldn't really tell who won the third so I had it 10-10. Carlos clearly won the fourth and Diaz couldn't get his ground game working fast enough to win the fifth.

If somebody put a gun to my head I'd probably tell him Diaz won it.


----------



## funkasaurus

I wish I could be a blind Diaz fan like half of you guys. Diaz is my #1 fighter on the planet today, but he lost the fight. Round 1 and 2 was ridiculously close, and Condit edged the last round until a takedown, which again evened it up. How can you say it was a robbery in any way? Condit clearly won two rounds, the other 3 were super close. If Condit lost, you could understand some complaints, but with Diaz losing, how can you bitch about the decision? Diaz has a right to be pissed, but none of you do, simple. The decision was good. Bruce Leeroy must be reading forums and getting pissed as **** at people saying Diaz got robbed.


----------



## Toxic

Condit outstrikes Diaz 3 to 2 and then lands on average 10 leg kicks per round that were unanswered. Come on people Condit threw more strikes and landed considerably more strikes. Diaz fans obsess with the volume of strikes he throws but when somebody out throws him and out lands him suddenly they don't want to discuss the volume of strikes.


----------



## jonnyg4508

Leed said:


> Forum goers and Cecil Peoples? How about Dana White, Ben Henderson, Gray Maynard, Brian Stann, Jon Fitch.... not that it matters, but you obviously think it does.


Dana White? Really? What else is he going to say? Diaz just retired and he has to promote Conidt/GSP. Do you really think he is going to say Diaz won? Not in a million years.

I'm just saying don't call Diaz backers crazy and bias. Plenty of legit, smart pro fighters gave it to Diaz as well. Many who have no bias what so ever.


----------



## tap nap or snap

jonnyg4508 said:


> Alright.
> 
> Well I'll be wrong with Corimer, Chuck, Anderson, Neer, Pulver, and Joe Lauzon.
> 
> You can be "right" with a bunch of forum goers and Cecil Peoples.
> 
> I'm totally cool with that.


other pros say condit clearly won


----------



## SideWays222

Condit won.


----------



## HexRei

xxpillowxxjp said:


> I respectfully disagree, and here is my reasoning.
> 
> Diaz's game plan was to pressure condit, cut him off, and wear him down. He only cut him off ONCE in 25 mins, and took him down and got his back for one minute. So for 1 minute 15 seconds ~, Diaz imposed his game plan. The other 23 mins 45 seconds, condit imposed his. If it was gsp instead of condit, with the same performance people would be clamoring about how gsp destroyed Diaz.


That doesn't address your choice of descriptor, though. "Completely crush, 100%" should be reserved for extremely lopsided fights. Not going the distance and decisively losing one round, including getting taken down and having his back taken in the only grappling of the fight. I mean if that was getting completely crushed, what term is left for far worse lengthy beatings like Rashad v Mr Wonderful or absolute dominations like Andy v Forrest?


----------



## madrappa

SideWays222 said:


> Condit won.


nope.


----------



## SideWays222

madrappa said:


> nope.


----------



## Killz

madrappa said:


> nope.


Yep. :thumbsup:


----------



## PLATA-O-PLOMO

CARLOS CONDITS - favorite things (lol)

favorite hip hop producers - THE RUNNERS
favorite rap group - RUN dmc
favorite movie quote - "RUN FORREST RUN"
favorite college basketball team - unlv RUNNING REBELS
favorite song - bryan adams RUN TO YOU
favorite reality tv personality - rev RUN

are yall seeing a pattern here ??
BAHAHAHAHAHA (lol) I actually like CARLOS CONDIT but NICK DIAZ .. WON the fight ... if anyone remembers RAMPAGE JACKSON vs LYOTTO MACHIDA ?? it was basically the same as DIAZ vs CONDIT aka one fighter *RUNNING* all night (machida & condit) & one fighter *STALKING* all night aka (rampage & diaz) no one was ever in any real DANGER in the DIAZ vs CONDIT fight but RAMPAGE was the only one actually in DANGER in JACKSON vs MACHIDA @ the end of the 3RD ROUND but RAMPAGE still WON a DECISION .... CONDIT landed more *STRIKES* (kicks & punches) but thats easy to do when you hit & *RUN* all night ... NICK DIAZ WON 2 ROUNDS for sure & was the AGGRESSOR for all 5 ROUND which shoulda got him WINNING a 3RD ROUND aka 3 ROUNDS to 2 ROUNDS over CONDIT ... CONDIT finished his 3 PREVIOUS FIGHTS by TKO/KO & two of them in the 1ST ROUND but in the fight he KICKED & JABBED & JOGGED the whole fight aka he didnt deserve the DECISION VICTORY ... HOPEFULLY alteast he wont fight like a NUTLESS FAIRY vs FRENCH CANADIAN F##K BOY aka GEORGE (lay & pray) ST PIERRE & he gets a TKO/KO .. VICTORY over GEORGE


----------



## ACTAFOOL

lol at the diaz fanboys, come on i think everyone wanted to see GSP vs Diaz but lets be serious, since when does walking forward and getting punched in the face repeatidly and not land any sig strike mean u won a fight? unless your name is sanchez

Condit won easily rounds 2, 3 and 4..i even gave him the 1st but that one is a toss up IMO.... Even so the only rounds Diaz could have won is 1 and 5


----------



## HexRei

ACTAFOOL said:


> lol at the diaz fanboys, come on i think everyone wanted to see GSP vs Diaz but lets be serious, since when does walking forward and getting punched in the face repeatidly and not land any sig strike mean u won a fight? unless your name is sanchez
> 
> Condit won easily rounds 2, 3 and 4..i even gave him the 1st Aldo but that one is a toss up IMO.... Even so the only rounds Diaz could have won is 1 and 5


nick landed twice as many strikes as condit in round 2. and not leg kicks, either.


----------



## PLATA-O-PLOMO

its easy to LAND more STRIKES when you HIT & RUN AWAY all night & yeah CONDIT LANDED way MORE STRIKES but %90 of the STRIKES he LANDED wouldnt have HURT a GIRL SCOUT (lol)

NICK LANDED about 7 HARD or SIGNIFICANT SHOTS + he got the 5TH ROUND TAKEDOWN
CONDIT LANDED maybe 4 HARD or SIGNIFICANT SHOTS


----------



## madrappa

ACTAFOOL said:


> lol at the diaz fanboys, come on i think everyone wanted to see GSP vs Diaz but lets be serious, since when does walking forward and getting punched in the face repeatidly and not land any sig strike mean u won a fight? unless your name is sanchez
> 
> Condit won easily rounds 2, 3 and 4..i even gave him the 1st but that one is a toss up IMO.... Even so the only rounds Diaz could have won is 1 and 5


your smoking. go re watch round 2 and tell me condit won.

diaz always eats shots, its his way of getting a guy to be comfortable trading with him, condit was smart to not fall into it.

but still, the shots in the fight that really snapped the head back were diaz jabs and rights... i dont feel like those pick up enough points. 

condit never landed anything big or damaging, to me i didnt see him landing effectively even. a few leg kicks but even those werent big. otherwise he would go into his jogging stance and run once diaz came at him



SideWays222 said:


>


horseshit call. all the judges scored the first round for condit? thats laughable, there were no take downs, so if the round was scored like a boxing match it was easily diaz


----------



## Mckeever

aerius said:


> What is there to be upset about? Did we get a complete judging cock-up on the Bisping-Hamill level? Did we get 14 minutes of clinching and standing around like Mir vs. Crocop? Was it 5 rounds of buttflopping as in Silva vs. Leites? Did both fighters gas hard after 2 minutes and spend the rest of the fight sucking air with their hands on their knees? No. None of that happened.
> 
> As far as I can tell people bought into the UFC hype and expected a fight that would top the Shogun-Hendo war, and when that didn't happen they were disappointed. Yeah, it would be freakin' awesome if the fight went down as hyped, but we shouldn't count on it and set such unrealistic expectations.


Lyoto vs Shogun 1 is one of my favourites, now that was a great tactical battle. Neither Shogun or Machida actually turned their back on their opponent and literally started jogging in the other direction.


----------



## Killz

PLATA-O-PLOMO said:


> CARLOS CONDITS - favorite things (lol)
> 
> favorite hip hop producers - THE RUNNERS
> favorite rap group - RUN dmc
> favorite movie quote - "RUN FORREST RUN"
> favorite college basketball team - unlv RUNNING REBELS
> favorite song - bryan adams RUN TO YOU
> favorite reality tv personality - rev RUN
> 
> are yall seeing a pattern here ??
> BAHAHAHAHAHA (lol) I actually like CARLOS CONDIT but NICK DIAZ .. WON the fight ... if anyone remembers RAMPAGE JACKSON vs LYOTTO MACHIDA ?? it was basically the same as DIAZ vs CONDIT aka one fighter *RUNNING* all night (machida & condit) & one fighter *STALKING* all night aka (rampage & diaz) no one was ever in any real DANGER in the DIAZ vs CONDIT fight but RAMPAGE was the only one actually in DANGER in JACKSON vs MACHIDA @ the end of the 3RD ROUND but RAMPAGE still WON a DECISION .... CONDIT landed more *STRIKES* (kicks & punches) but thats easy to do when you hit & *RUN* all night ... NICK DIAZ WON 2 ROUNDS for sure & was the AGGRESSOR for all 5 ROUND which shoulda got him WINNING a 3RD ROUND aka 3 ROUNDS to 2 ROUNDS over CONDIT ... CONDIT finished his 3 PREVIOUS FIGHTS by TKO/KO & two of them in the 1ST ROUND but in the fight he KICKED & JABBED & JOGGED the whole fight aka he didnt deserve the DECISION VICTORY ... HOPEFULLY alteast he wont fight like a NUTLESS FAIRY vs FRENCH CANADIAN F##K BOY aka GEORGE (lay & pray) ST PIERRE & he gets a TKO/KO .. VICTORY over GEORGE


My eyes!!!! :sarcastic05:


Worst first post EVER!!


----------



## Black_S15

jonnyg4508 said:


> Dana White? Really? What else is he going to say? Diaz just retired and he has to promote Conidt/GSP. Do you really think he is going to say Diaz won? Not in a million years.
> 
> I'm just saying don't call Diaz backers crazy and bias. Plenty of legit, smart pro fighters gave it to Diaz as well. Many who have no bias what so ever.


dan henderson gave it to Diaz also.

"wow, i would not want to judge that one. i had it even after 4. and diaz in the 5th"


----------



## HexRei

Black_S15 said:


> dan henderson gave it to Diaz also.
> 
> "wow, i would not want to judge that one. i had it even after 4. and diaz in the 5th"


I thought it was an extremely close fight. If you are the type of who tallies strikes equally I suppose Condit could be seen as a clear winner, but I personally do not weigh leg strikes as heavily as body and head strikes, and thought the decision could go either way.

Also I'm of the opinion that if a guy walks through your strikes unfazed it suggests they aren't doing much damage, and Nick did exactly that to most (but not all) of Condit's strikes, while Condit back away from and in some cases literally fled from Nick's. I think this is relevant when judging damage. It was a close fight even under my own personal standards though, because Condit played a smart game and did not give Nick much opportunity to unload like he wanted to.


----------



## osmium

HexRei said:


> Also I'm of the opinion that if a guy walks through your strikes unfazed it suggests they aren't doing much damage, and Nick did exactly that to most (but not all) of Condit's strikes, while Condit back away from and in some cases literally fled from Nick's. I think this is relevant when judging damage. It was a close fight even under my own personal standards though, because Condit played a smart game and did not give Nick much opportunity to unload like he wanted to.


Maybe if he ever actually badly hurt Condit with his strikes you could say that but he didn't so all that really means is one person is an idiot who lets a guy kick him in the head and the other person isn't.


----------



## AmdM

Mckeever said:


> Lyoto vs Shogun 1 is one of my favourites, now that was a great tactical battle. Neither Shogun or Machida actually turned their back on their opponent *and literally started jogging in the other direction.*


The bolded part is so blatant it even hurts my brain when people compare those two situations.
People need to be more perceptive.
One thing is to use technical feints ,side and backwards movement to create angles,
the other thing is to turn your back and literally run away from your opponent.
Well rep you Mck, as soon as the board let me.


----------



## Mckeever

AmdM said:


> The bolded part is so blatant it even hurts my brain when people compare those two situations.
> People need to be more perceptive.
> One thing is to use technical feints ,side and backwards movement to create angles,
> the other thing is to turn your backs and literally run away from your exponential.


We're just uneducated mma fans. It was fantastic strategy and game planning on Condit's part. 

Greg Jacksons words of wisdom: "Hey Carlos, as soon as Nick starts pressuring you towards the fence, just turn your body and start running in the other direction. I mean literally run Carlos! Then land another soft leg kick and do the same thing again. Oh and throw in a few telegraphed spinning back fists to look flashy and busy! Profit!"


----------



## AmdM

How the hell did i messed up opponent for exponential :confused02:
I guess that's what happens to your brain when you stay awake until 8am to see the UFc and the all event turns into sh*t. 



Mckeever said:


> We're just uneducated mma fans. It was fantastic strategy and game planning on Condit's part.
> 
> Greg Jacksons words of wisdom: "Hey Carlos, as soon as Nick starts pressuring you towards the fence, just turn your body and start running in the other direction. I mean literally run Carlos! Then land another soft leg kick and do the same thing again. Oh and throw in a few telegraphed spinning back fists to look flashy and busy! Profit!"


Yeah, i bet they were training sprints a lot!


----------



## fightfan76

I honestly do not see how some pro fighters are saying Condit ran instead of just avoiding getting backed up against the cage. Rousey said "I like to see a man fight like a man", ok then if she ever fights Cyborg I want to see her just stand in front of her and throw down. That is the logic every1 is going by.....

Condit knew that he would not beat Diaz standing in front of him or getting caught up w/ his back against the cage and peppered to death. Sure he had to run out of there b/c Diaz pursues that hard and fast; if Diaz let people just casually circle away from the fence then you wouldnt have to run out of there. He doesnt do that though so if Condit didnt run out of there he would have been stuck against the cage slugging it out which is what he didnt want to happen.....

Condit's plan was simple, stay on the outside, do NOT let Diaz back him up against the fence and strike in the center of the octagon. The only time he wasnt striking is when Diaz was pushing forward trying to get him against the cage which is smart.....

To those claiming claiming Condit was "point fighting" or not trying to finish, that is just BS. I mean you have to consider the opponent; Diaz just does not get finished and Condit knew that. I mean you are not going to sub Nick unless you stunn him badly and jump in for the finish. He also obviously has an iron chin. Condit knew all of this so w/o getting caught up against the cage he was trying to land some unorthodox strikes /w velocity to hurt/finish Diaz such as the spinning back-fist, kicks, and knees. He did land some of these but Diaz is a tough cookie..... 

As far as the 5th round goes, Condit won the majority of the 1st 4 minutes and Diaz took him down w/ a little over a minute left. That is debatable at best for Diaz to have won it. I gave to Condit but could see where maybe it was a draw.....

The reason Diaz lost is b/c once he wasnt getting Condit against the cage, he had no answers. He should have tried to get it to the ground much sooner but he didnt. Condit was trying to catch Nick and finishing him but since that didnt happen his game plan allowed him to win on points.....

Objectives:
Do not get back pressed against cage - he did that
Do not stand and trade - didnt happen
Stay on outside, stick and move - he did that
Use leg kicks to keep Diaz off balance and out of rythumn:
this last 1 is important, he did that, regardless how much they scored, the leg kicks played a big part of the fight.....

I know some people will never change their minds so it really doesnt matter. I am a fan of Nick Diaz but it is what it is, I hope he does not retire b/c I feel he has the skill set to beat Condint. Having said that, I am not sure if Diaz or Condit have the skill set to beat GSP, we shall see.....


----------



## box

Toxic said:


> Diaz fans obsess with the volume of strikes he throws but when somebody out throws him and out lands him suddenly they don't want to discuss the volume of strikes.


Diaz out struck him to the head/body, the non Diaz fans seem to turn a blind eye to that. Those are the significant shots that should score more than the leg kicks Condit was pawning out. I think since Condit was more flashy, he got a lot more attention. Pat Barry leg kick is another story.


----------



## drey2k

Another *DISGUSTING*decision.

I guess running away and throwing ineffective legs kicks is how you become champ in the UFC.

What a joke.

In Japan Condit would receive a yellow card, *GET IT RIGHT UFC*.


----------



## drey2k

Btw "Natural Born Killer"

AHAHHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHHAHA
hAHAHAHHA
AHAHHAHAHA


NATURAL BORN JOGGER


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oOpUFtVAes&feature=g-all-u&context=G29472e9FAAAAAAAAFAA


----------



## khoveraki

Did you guys even see Diaz' face? It was all messed up, huge cuts on multiple parts of his face AND MORE IMPORTANTLY Diaz was nearly gassed and just plodding in round 4 and 5! He was barely moving his legs at all.


And to pretend he was doing well when even in the stat of round three he was giving up on his boxing to throw weak ass kicks (that were in slow motion to Condit), then trying for desperate take-downs before getting stuffed and beat up some more.


But yeah he was totally Leonard Garcia walking straight forward, he definitely won, yeah easily.


----------



## fightfan76

Some of you guys are TOOLS who know nothing about MMA, wish fightforum would quit having issues and come back up indefinitely.....


----------



## SideWays222

Condit won.


----------



## fightfan76

SideWays222 said:


> Condit won.


Clearly.....


----------



## SideWays222

fightfan76 said:


> Clearly.....


As clear as day.


----------



## Toxic

This is getting absurd. Honestly I don't get why Condit is getting so much hate. Honestly it was clear Condit wasn't gonna play Diaz's game and let himself get backed against the fence so why isn;t anyone pissed at Diaz for continuing to attempt the same failing game plan over and over. Diaz was a one trick pony and his trick wasn't working, it was similiar to Leites dropping on his ass for 25 minutes. Why didn't Diaz try to stand in the center of the octagon were Carlos was comfortable exchanging with him instead of just trying to back him up against the cage over and over and over. I didn't see Carlos doing any running when they were standing in the center of the cage. Diaz and his fans say Condit is some kind of coward for refusing to play Diaz's game so I ask you why didn't Diaz try to play Condits where he was CLEARLY losing the fight instead of trying to back Condit against the cage and gain an advantage Condit wasn't gonna give him? SO why is it Diaz fans that when BJJ guys try the same failing strategy over and over they are cowards but when Diaz does it he is some kind of hero? Why didn't the brave Diaz stand and get his ass kicked in the center of the cage like a man? 

I realize this is over the top but the arguement holds just as much if not more weight than that of the guys who think Condit should have just stood against the cage maybe with his hands behind his back and chin stuck out so Diaz could unload at will because that clearly anything else just makes him less of a man.


----------



## fightfan76

Toxic said:


> This is getting absurd. Honestly I don't get why Condit is getting so much hate. Honestly it was clear Condit wasn't gonna play Diaz's game and let himself get backed against the fence so why isn;t anyone pissed at Diaz for continuing to attempt the same failing game plan over and over. Diaz was a one trick pony and his trick wasn't working, it was similiar to Leites dropping on his ass for 25 minutes. Why didn't Diaz try to stand in the center of the octagon were Carlos was comfortable exchanging with him instead of just trying to back him up against the cage over and over and over. I didn't see Carlos doing any running when they were standing in the center of the cage. Diaz and his fans say Condit is some kind of coward for refusing to play Diaz's game so I ask you why didn't Diaz try to play Condits where he was CLEARLY losing the fight instead of trying to back Condit against the cage and gain an advantage Condit wasn't gonna give him? SO why is it Diaz fans that when BJJ guys try the same failing strategy over and over they are cowards but when Diaz does it he is some kind of hero? Why didn't the brave Diaz stand and get his ass kicked in the center of the cage like a man?
> 
> *I realize this is over the top but the arguement holds just as much if not more weight than that of the guys who think Condit should have just stood against the cage maybe with his hands behind his back and chin stuck out so Diaz could unload at will because that clearly anything else just makes him less of a man.*


I agree w/ everything you said, particularly the bold.....


----------



## Calminian

funkasaurus said:


> I wish I could be a blind Diaz fan like half of you guys. Diaz is my #1 fighter on the planet today, but he lost the fight. Round 1 and 2 was ridiculously close, and Condit edged the last round until a takedown, which again evened it up. How can you say it was a robbery in any way? Condit clearly won two rounds, the other 3 were super close. If Condit lost, you could understand some complaints, but with Diaz losing, how can you bitch about the decision? Diaz has a right to be pissed, but none of you do, simple. The decision was good. Bruce Leeroy must be reading forums and getting pissed as **** at people saying Diaz got robbed.


I actually believe this fight could have been scored 5-0.


----------



## Calminian

Toxic said:


> This is getting absurd. Honestly I don't get why Condit is getting so much hate. Honestly it was clear Condit wasn't gonna play Diaz's game and let himself get backed against the fence so why isn;t anyone pissed at Diaz for continuing to attempt the same failing game plan over and over. Diaz was a one trick pony and his trick wasn't working, it was similiar to Leites dropping on his ass for 25 minutes. Why didn't Diaz try to stand in the center of the octagon were Carlos was comfortable exchanging with him instead of just trying to back him up against the cage over and over and over. I didn't see Carlos doing any running when they were standing in the center of the cage. Diaz and his fans say Condit is some kind of coward for refusing to play Diaz's game so I ask you why didn't Diaz try to play Condits where he was CLEARLY losing the fight instead of trying to back Condit against the cage and gain an advantage Condit wasn't gonna give him? SO why is it Diaz fans that when BJJ guys try the same failing strategy over and over they are cowards but when Diaz does it he is some kind of hero? Why didn't the brave Diaz stand and get his ass kicked in the center of the cage like a man?
> 
> I realize this is over the top but the arguement holds just as much if not more weight than that of the guys who think Condit should have just stood against the cage maybe with his hands behind his back and chin stuck out so Diaz could unload at will because that clearly anything else just makes him less of a man.


Good rant. 100% true. Condit was absolutely brilliant. Total control the whole fight. Never once in danger. Never once concerned. Landing shots almost at will. 

I think it's also interesting the advise Diaz's corning was giving him, telling him he was up on points. Terrible corner job. 

Frankly I hope they give him Koscheck next. Diaz will lose that on as well.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

Toxic said:


> This is getting absurd. Honestly I don't get why Condit is getting so much hate. Honestly it was clear Condit wasn't gonna play Diaz's game and let himself get backed against the fence so why isn;t anyone pissed at Diaz for continuing to attempt the same failing game plan over and over. Diaz was a one trick pony and his trick wasn't working, it was similiar to Leites dropping on his ass for 25 minutes. Why didn't Diaz try to stand in the center of the octagon were Carlos was comfortable exchanging with him instead of just trying to back him up against the cage over and over and over. I didn't see Carlos doing any running when they were standing in the center of the cage. Diaz and his fans say Condit is some kind of coward for refusing to play Diaz's game so I ask you why didn't Diaz try to play Condits where he was CLEARLY losing the fight instead of trying to back Condit against the cage and gain an advantage Condit wasn't gonna give him? SO why is it Diaz fans that when BJJ guys try the same failing strategy over and over they are cowards but when Diaz does it he is some kind of hero? Why didn't the brave Diaz stand and get his ass kicked in the center of the cage like a man?
> 
> I realize this is over the top but the arguement holds just as much if not more weight than that of the guys who think Condit should have just stood against the cage maybe with his hands behind his back and chin stuck out so Diaz could unload at will because that clearly anything else just makes him less of a man.


Agreed 100%. 

It's also amusing to see "learned" fans not being able to comprehend the difference between a run and creating space. 

Kaleb Starnes ran from Quarry; he offered nothing. 

Condit jogged away to create space so he could unload on Diaz's leg. And, for a man who sticks out his chin and "isn't afraid to get hurt," well, he started checking those leg kicks and tried moving his lead leg out of the way. 

I do fault Condit for not committing to his attacks. A few of those kicks and knees, particularly the head kick, could have been a KO if he had pushed his weight forward. But, Condit had a gameplan, an effective one, and he stuck to it and got a deserved win.


----------



## jonnyg4508

Creating space is a guy like Edgar. He will circle and box. If he is in trouble he will circle away and use his footwork.

Not run to the clear other side of the cage.


----------



## fightfan76

jonnyg4508 said:


> Creating space is a guy like Edgar. He will circle and box. If he is in trouble he will circle away and use his footwork.
> 
> *Not run to the clear other side of the cage.*


Another Diaz fan-boy exaggerating, Nick has great range and if you just casually circle away he will press you and get you against the cage anyway. Condit had to run out quickly, if he didnt he would have gotten pressed against the cage. Also, when Diaz wasnt coming forward, Condit was on the attack, when he came forward, Condit circled.....


----------



## Toxic

I am still waiting for a single Diaz fan to tell me why Diaz had to keep coming forward because he was losing in the middle of the cage. Why didn't he stand in the center and play Condit's game?


----------



## ashokjr

Mckeever said:


> We're just uneducated mma fans. It was fantastic strategy and game planning on Condit's part.
> 
> Greg Jacksons words of wisdom: "Hey Carlos, as soon as Nick starts pressuring you towards the fence, just turn your body and start running in the other direction. I mean literally run Carlos! Then land another soft leg kick and do the same thing again. Oh and throw in a few telegraphed spinning back fists to look flashy and busy! Profit!"


Everyone keeps talking about Condit. He had a good game plan, executed and won the belt. For a change, what about Diaz game plan, if he had one, that is. "Keep walking front and get hit a lot. If you cannot hit him, dont worry about it. Dont change a thing. Just keep walking forward and absorb all those kicks and jabs". 

If Diaz had the intelligence, he would have tried to change things a bit when it is clear that things are not going his way. Fighters, just like any other job, had to adapt to the situation. If they adapt, like how Condit did here, they are champions. If they cannot adapt and keep doing things their way all the time, they end up losing, just like Diaz did.


----------



## TanyaJade

I can't believe that some posters are upset that Condit used an actual gameplan. This is a SPORT, a combat sport yes, but MMA is not about fighting. Thugs fight. Children fight. Immature people who can't bottle their feelings like their supposed to fight.

Condit did what any rational, logical and intelligent person would do, he fought smart, took few risks and did what he had to do to win. Like I said, this is a sport. The objective is to win. It doesn't matter how you win, it's if you win.

I'm so happy for Carlos. He's a gentleman with class and restraint. A true champion and an incredible representation of the sport.


----------



## DragonStriker

LOL


----------



## box

Toxic said:


> I am still waiting for a single Diaz fan to tell me why Diaz had to keep coming forward because he was losing in the middle of the cage. Why didn't he stand in the center and play Condit's game?


Simple, every time Diaz went to strike, Condit backpedaled away, he never wanted to trade. Smart technique to win.



Ari said:


> I'm so happy for Carlos. He's a gentleman with class and restraint. A true champion and an incredible representation of the sport.


I'm also not upset with him getting the shot, he's a great fighter and deserves a chance. I can say though, i'm not a fan of playing it safe, it's not good for the sport in anyway.


----------



## fightfan76

DragonStriker said:


> LOL


What an idiot.....


----------



## SideWays222

"Its not good for the sport"

Lmfao...

MMA Fans... ******* nuts.


----------



## fightfan76

box said:


> Simple, every time Diaz went to strike, *Condit backpedaled away*, he never wanted to trade. Smart technique to win.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also not upset with him getting the shot, he's a great fighter and deserves a chance. I can say though, i'm not a fan of playing it safe, it's not good for the sport in anyway.


 dont understand why he didnt just let him hit him.....


----------



## DragonStriker

It's only a sport people act like its there lives or something even with the football this season its only a game you win some you lose some.


----------



## Toxic

box said:


> Simple, every time Diaz went to strike, Condit backpedaled away, he never wanted to trade. Smart technique to win.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also not upset with him getting the shot, he's a great fighter and deserves a chance. I can say though, i'm not a fan of playing it safe, it's not good for the sport in anyway.


I am watching the fight again and round 4 Diaz is freaking terrible. He literally is standing in the middle of the cage and letting Condit unload then looking at Condit like ok my turn, and Condit just circles away from the cage as Diaz tries to swing away barely landing if lucky.Diaz seems confused like WTF I let you punch me in the face why you not let me punch you? Then they repeat. Watching this fight repeatedly I am amazed how little Diaz throws in the center of the cage.


----------



## box

fightfan76 said:


> dont understand why he didnt just let him hit him.....


That's not the point, Toxic asked why it didn't happen, and that's why.



Toxic said:


> I am watching the fight again and round 4 Diaz is freaking terrible. He literally is standing in the middle of the cage and letting Condit unload then looking at Condit like ok my turn, and Condit just circles away from the cage as Diaz tries to swing away barely landing if lucky.Diaz seems confused like WTF I let you punch me in the face why you not let me punch you? Then they repeat. Watching this fight repeatedly I am amazed how little Diaz throws in the center of the cage.


I agree, rounds 3, 4, Condit clearly won the exchanges. Rounds 1 and 2 however not the case.


----------



## SideWays222

Toxic said:


> I am watching the fight again and round 4 Diaz is freaking terrible. He literally is standing in the middle of the cage and letting Condit unload then looking at Condit like ok my turn, and Condit just circles away from the cage as Diaz tries to swing away barely landing if lucky.Diaz seems confused like WTF I let you punch me in the face why you not let me punch you? Then they repeat. Watching this fight repeatedly I am amazed how little Diaz throws in the center of the cage.


You know whats funny??? People keep saying Condits kicks did nothing. Do people notice Diaz steps in rd 1,2 and then rd 4 and 5??? He starts almost limping with 1 leg. Yet people completely ignore that fact. I was even watching the fight saying "Hit him with another one Condit.. they clearly are affecting his leg work".


----------



## Rusty

No amount of discussion would sway my opinion that Condit won but the amount of Diaz fans crying in this thread warms my heart. I very much love it and hope it continues for many days:thumb02:

Cartmanlickingdelicioustears.jpeg


----------



## cursedbat

Really still people not getting this? I mean its pretty clear. Baby leg strikes vs actual punches. Every damn fighter from Anderson to every other commentator says forget about the running man Carlos did after he declared himself the "KILLER and "FINISHER", he lost the rounds 1-2-5. Its perfectly fine Carlos turned into a point tactician over the image he created as a real war fighter, thats his right to do, but it makes him a poser, and...oh yeah...he lost. And so did the fans. Unless of course your a like to watch grown men hump each other kind of guy than I guess what he did was brave and genius.


----------



## ashokjr

box said:


> That's not the point, Toxic asked why it didn't happen, and that's why.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, rounds 3, 4, Condit clearly won the exchanges. *Rounds 1 and 2 however not the case.*


Ok. I'll bite. 

What exactly did DIAZ do apart from walking towards Condit all the time? He did absolutely nothing. Condit was kicking, jabbing, tried a couple of spinning back fists and all the whole Diaz did, well. nothing.

So, if you judge the fight, you'll give the rounds to the fighter just walks forward foolishly but will not score for the guy who intelligently implemented his game plan? wow.


----------



## SideWays222

ashokjr said:


> Ok. I'll bite.
> 
> What exactly did DIAZ do apart from walking towards Condit all the time? He did absolutely nothing. Condit was kicking, jabbing, tried a couple of spinning back fists and all the whole Diaz did, well. nothing.
> 
> So, if you judge the fight, you'll give the rounds to the fighter just walks forward foolishly but will not score for the guy who intelligently implemented his game plan? wow.


rd 1,2 Diaz landed plenty of punches.

Im not sure if your trying to say Diaz did nothing in rds 1 and 2. But if you are thats my response.


----------



## ashokjr

DragonStriker said:


> LOL


WOW. Can't believe someone would do this. I am sure the TV is not his or he didnt buy it with his hard earned money.


----------



## Toxic

box said:


> That's not the point, Toxic asked why it didn't happen, and that's why.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, rounds 3, 4, Condit clearly won the exchanges. Rounds 1 and 2 however not the case.


Condit clearly won the exchanges in one and two as well, now if you want to argue it was close enough to give them to Diaz based on octagon control I would at least think you had a leg to stand on. I wouldn't agree but to be honest I thought Diaz won rounds 1 and 5. I thought the striking was fairly even in round 1 and Condit wasn't as comfortable moving out and was letting Diaz pin him on the cage and get off a few punches before circling out. That was a behavior he quit in the second beginning to circle before Diaz started to get off. I think in all 5 rounds Condit was landing the better strikes and getting off the cleaner shots. That said I think the first Diaz gets on octagon control in a close round and the 5th I think the TD was enough to steal him the round considering he had Condit in trouble for over a minute.


----------



## ashokjr

SideWays222 said:


> rd 1,2 Diaz landed plenty of punches.
> 
> Im not sure if your trying to say Diaz did nothing in rds 1 and 2. But if you are thats my response.


Round 2. I agree. Diaz did connect some good shots while Condit wasnt far behind. Rnd 2 was clearly Diaz.

I cant agree with you on Round 1. It wasnt even close. It was clearly Condit's round. If you look at fight metric, you'll see the truth. Now, you can't say fight metric is bad. 

http://blog.fightmetric.com/2012/02/condit-vs-diaz-official-ufc-statistics.html


----------



## SideWays222

ashokjr said:


> Round 2. I agree. Diaz did connect some good shots while Condit wasnt far behind. Rnd 2 was clearly Diaz.
> 
> I cant agree with you on Round 1. It wasnt even close. It was clearly Condit's round. If you look at fight metric, you'll see the truth. Now, you can't say fight metric is bad.
> 
> http://blog.fightmetric.com/2012/02/condit-vs-diaz-official-ufc-statistics.html


The fight metric certainly doesnt change anything. Maybe condit landed something of no value but that adds to the stats. Watching the fight is what determines who won the fight/RD.

Diaz clearly outstruck Condit in rounds 1 and 2 and i was actually getting worried. Rd 3,4,5 Condit was pretty much just making Diaz look foolish.


----------



## ashokjr

SideWays222 said:


> The fight metric certainly doesnt change anything. Maybe condit landed something of no value but that adds to the stats. Watching the fight is what determines who won the fight/RD.
> 
> Diaz clearly outstruck Condit in rounds 1 and 2 and i was actually getting worried. Rd 3,4,5 Condit was pretty much just making Diaz look foolish.


Well. Diaz isnt a big puncher. He is most effective when he gets folks to back into the cage and he gets to unload on them. Quantity over power. Exactly for this reason, if the quantity is not more, then no way he wins the round. If he is a big puncher, we can have an argument that even though he landed less than Condit, he did more damage but clearly, thats not the case here.

Condit clearly took Rnd 1. Rnds 2 is Diaz. Rnds 3 and 4 are clearly Condit again. Rnd 5, Condit again but not as clear as 3 and 4 since Diaz had a submission attempt. Here is how i scored it. 1, 3, 4 and 5 for Condit. 2 for Diaz.


----------



## box

ashokjr said:


> Ok. I'll bite.
> 
> What exactly did DIAZ do apart from walking towards Condit all the time? He did absolutely nothing. Condit was kicking, jabbing, tried a couple of spinning back fists and all the whole Diaz did, well. nothing.



He out struck him to the head/body (even the stats back this), while walking forward the whole time? I guess that's not much though considering all the movement Condit had, and those leg kicks, those amazing leg kicks


----------



## ashokjr

box said:


> He out struck him to the head/body (even the stats back this), while walking forward the whole time? I guess that's not much though considering all the movement Condit had, and those leg kicks, those amazing leg kicks


Can I get the source of the stats you are talking about? And, NO. Your point of view cannot be that source. 

If you are going to point to Fight metric, it says Rnd 1, Condit out struck him while Rnd 2 was Diaz out striking Condit.

Also, since when staying out of danger is bad?


----------



## SideWays222

ashokjr said:


> *Well. Diaz isnt a big puncher. He is most effective when he gets folks to back into the cage and he gets to unload on them. Quantity over power. Exactly for this reason, if the quantity is not more, then no way he wins the round. If he is a big puncher, we can have an argument that even though he landed less than Condit, he did more damage but clearly, thats not the case here.*
> 
> Condit clearly took Rnd 1. Rnds 2 is Diaz. Rnds 3 and 4 are clearly Condit again. Rnd 5, Condit again but not as clear as 3 and 4 since Diaz had a submission attempt. Here is how i scored it. 1, 3, 4 and 5 for Condit. 2 for Diaz.


Condits punches had less behind them then Diazes did. He was being so light footed that he traded his power for it. He got pretty much punked in rds 1 and 2. The whole backing up thing is strategy when you are countering effectively. In the first 2 rds he was backing up but not throwing anything back of value. You probably need to watch the fight again or something. Because he very clearly got outstruck. Diaz clearly took aggression and i would give Diaz the octagon control because its Diaz that controlled the pace of the fight. I would "*SLIGHTLY*" and i mean slightly say what Condit did in those 2 rounds was border line running. Its not running if you are countering and picking your opponent apart while walking back. But in RDs 1 and 2 he was not picking Diaz apart by any means but instead was just avoiding a fight. I shouldnt use the word run because thats not the case BUT he was very nervous to let lose. Im not sure if its because he wanted Diaz to feel safe or was trying to get into his rhythm or maybe was conserving energy.. i have no idea. i know the whole argument "Well should he let Diaz punch him!!?" and im on your guys side on that. But there is more then 1 way to avoid punches. Slip a punch, throw, move back or lateral (WHICH HE DID IN RDS 3,4,5). In round 1 and 2 it was Back away, throw a punch that has no hopes of landing, run to center.


----------



## DragonStriker

Sideways, you have Rampage too on your fight league nice.


----------



## UFC86

*Nick Diaz and Carlos Candit should rematch*

Dana White suggested it might happen.

I was rooting for Nick Diaz due to the grudge with GSP because I wanted to see that match, but I thought Condit outpointed him. The rematch would be perfect to settle the score, since the fight was so close, and would happen in the interval before the unification with GSP.

I would have also liked to see Nick fight Koscheck and Fitch before he retires, I think it would be close matches.
Nick Diaz improved alot over the years and is in his prime, and is as entertaining as always.


----------



## box

ashokjr said:


> Can I get the source of the stats you are talking about? And, NO. Your point of view cannot be that source.
> 
> If you are going to point to Fight metric, it says Rnd 1, Condit out struck him while Rnd 2 was Diaz out striking Condit.



Ok so look, Round 1 Condit lands 16 to 1 leg jabs, none were power shots. Diaz 16 to 7 head, 11 to 7 body shots. Round 2 All Diaz in the numbers. You can't Give condit the round for landing leg jabs considering all the other aggression and shots landed by Diaz, is all i'm saying.

Check round 1 and 2
http://blog.fightmetric.com/2012/02/condit-vs-diaz-official-ufc-statistics.html




ashokjr said:


> Also, since when staying out of danger is bad?


It's not, but i'm just arguing the actual strikes landed in the brief exchanges early on. It's almost laughable the difference in leg kicks 68 to 6, this is where Condits points came from, but you saw most those kicks, they were feelers.


----------



## SideWays222

DragonStriker said:


> Sideways, you have Rampage too on your fight league nice.


Haha yes! I figure its one easy win atleast (Bader). And i dont see Rampage fighting Jones or Rashad any time soon so i think he will have a win streak this year. My only worry is that he wont be active...


----------



## cookiefritas

lol, Diaz fans are delusional. Basically everything Condit landed were bitch shots, while Diaz was landing bombs. Condit landed 50 or so leg kicks to the lead leg, but they were all bitch kicks with nothing behind them. Also Diaz face got swollen up because of a allergic reaction he had to Condit's gloves. 

These are professional fighters that do this for a living guys, the majority of the shit they throw does damage when it lands.


----------



## xxpillowxxjp

box said:


> He out struck him to the head/body (even the stats back this), while walking forward the whole time? I guess that's not much though considering all the movement Condit had, and those leg kicks, those amazing leg kicks


I agree that diaz won round 2, convincingly. I think round 1 couldve gone either way, he landed 9 more head shots then condit and a few more body shots but i think the great equalizer was condit landing 16 kicks in round 1 while diaz landed a lonely one.


EDIT : A blind question. Pretend this question has nothing to do with last nights fight... Fighter one outlanded Fighter two 68-6 in leg kicks. Who won that fight? Generally speaking.


----------



## SideWays222

But with everything said.


*Carlos Condit won.*

Accept it baby diaz fans.


----------



## ashokjr

box said:


> Ok so look, Round 1 Condit lands 16 to 1 leg jabs, none were power shots. Diaz 16 to 7 head, 11 to 7 body shots. Round 2 All Diaz in the numbers. You can't Give condit the round for landing leg jabs considering all the other aggression and shots landed by Diaz, is all i'm saying.
> 
> Check round 1 and 2
> http://blog.fightmetric.com/2012/02/condit-vs-diaz-official-ufc-statistics.html
> 
> It's not, but i'm just arguing the actual strikes landed in the brief exchanges early on. It's almost laughable the difference in leg kicks 68 to 6, this is where Condits points came from, but you saw most those kicks, they were feelers.


In Rnds 3, 4 and 5, Diaz couldnt move as much as he did in previous 2 rounds. You know the reason? It was those so called "feeler" leg kicks. Those kicks were just like Diaz's punches. Not KO power but enough in quantity to take the spring away from you and thats exactly what it did to Diaz in the later rounds.

Rns 1 and 2 were basically who is going to enforce their game plan and will. Condit clearly came on top. 

What Condit did was exactly what BJ failed to do. BJ was expecting to hit with 1 good blow throughout the fight and he didnt move away. Condit watched it, created a good game plan and won.


----------



## box

cookiefritas said:


> lol, Diaz fans are delusional. Basically everything Condit landed were bitch shots, while Diaz was landing bombs. Condit landed 50 or so leg kicks to the lead leg, but they were all bitch kicks with nothing behind them. Also Diaz face got swollen up because of a allergic reaction he had to Condit's gloves.
> 
> These are professional fighters that do this for a living guys, the majority of the shit they throw does damage when it lands.


They might as well score it like Taekwondo then, where each leg kick scores a point, chest kick, head kick etc. Not a 10 point must system. You'd see some crazy striking if people went out to throw as many strikes as possible to out point the other fighter. Man, I am getting delusional though. Time for a break for tonight from this madness.



xxpillowxxjp said:


> EDIT : A blind question. Pretend this question has nothing to do with last nights fight... Fighter one outlanded Fighter two 68-6 in leg kicks. Who won that fight? Generally speaking.


Fighter one.


----------



## cursedbat

Jesus go watch the fight again, funny how you guys think you know but every fighter coming out saying different is wrong. In serious attacks Diaz out landed Condit, he only came close in the strike count because of the leg jabs, in actual punches it wasnt close. Than theres the minute and a half on his back, no take downs, oh and the back peddling across the ring thing, theres that.


----------



## trimco

When Dana was asked about a rematch in the post-fight press conference, his only response was something like "that'd be rediculous" or something along those lines. He did not explain his thoughts any further.

I think this may happen although I can't see Diaz continuing in MMA if he were to lose. So in that respect, it's a good choice for him if he does rematch and wins, but bad for the UFC if he loses and quits.


----------



## ashokjr

cursedbat said:


> Jesus go watch the fight again, funny how you guys think you know but every fighter coming out saying different is wrong. In serious attacks Diaz out landed Condit, he only came close in the strike count because of the leg jabs, in actual punches it wasnt close. Than theres the minute and a half on his back, no take downs, oh and the back peddling across the ring thing, theres that.


hmmm. Condit might have been wearing a face mask or something. I say this because it didnt show any impact of those supposed punches by Diaz.


----------



## box

ashokjr said:


> hmmm. Condit might have been wearing a face mask or something. I say this because it didnt show any impact of those supposed punches by Diaz.


Well Andersons face looked just fine after 5 rounds of Chael Sonnening. Not everyone bruises with a punch. Silva is black though I guess...doh


----------



## ashokjr

box said:


> Well Andersons face looked just fine after 5 rounds of Chael Sonnening. Not everyone bruises with a punch. Silva is black though I guess...doh


I do have a comment on Sonnen's punching but I'll reserve it for later. Dont want to start a war over that AGAIN.

However, you are spot on. Fair skin shows the impact pretty easily and Condit's face wasnt bad at all. In fact, it was much better.


----------



## Woodenhead

Condit with his wife at a post-fight party. Only one mark under one eye. Diaz barely fazed him; piece of cake.


----------



## DragonStriker

Carlos has a hot wife.


----------



## SideWays222

Woodenhead said:


> Condit with his wife at a post-fight party. Only one mark under one eye. Diaz barely fazed him; piece of cake.


And its after when everything settles that all the damage shows.


----------



## Woodenhead

Exactly, SideWays. And Condit looks better there than Diaz looked in the ring with Joe immediately after the fight. Looking at that, you'd think Condit only got hit by 1 punch to the eye area during a quick fight.


----------



## cookiefritas

Round one was a feeling each other round, I think everyone has that as a 10-10 round. 

Round Two- Diaz cleary won this round and Condit looked timid throughout this round, you can say that Condit was running away in this round but Diaz didn't do much damage. 10-9 Diaz.

Round Three- Condit worked Diaz in this round and popped him from all angles, Condit was throwing and landing with bad intentions, and dismantled Diaz in the standup. Cleary 10-9 Condit. 

Round 4- Look at round 3. Clearly 10-9 Condit.

Round 5- The first 3:30 minutes went to Condit, and then Diaz got a takedown, took Condits back, but the grappling after that was even on both sides after that. 10-10 round. 

I enjoyed the last 3 rounds of this fight, I wish it would had been a 10 rounder. Rounds 1-2 were boring because Condit was feeling Diaz out and figuring out his range, I can clearly see how you can claim that Condit was running on rounds 1-2. On rounds 3-5, Condit wrecked Diaz up and gave him a standup clinic. Diaz is a tough sob but he got tagged at will on rounds 3-5 and he kept swinging at air. 

Condit has better standup than Diaz, it took him two rounds to figure him out, but once he did, he basically toyed with Diaz in the standup.


----------



## AmdM

Woodenhead said:


> Condit with his wife at a post-fight party. Only one mark under one eye. Diaz barely fazed him; piece of cake.


Look at her face, even she is ashamed of his performance!


----------



## Life B Ez

Honestly is anyone else surprised by how much this event sucked? Who the **** thought that the best striking performance on the main card would be by a guy who fell on his back for three rounds in his previous fight?


----------



## xxpillowxxjp

Life B Ez said:


> Honestly is anyone else surprised by how much this event sucked? Who the **** thought that the best striking performance on the main card would be by a guy who fell on his back for three rounds in his previous fight?


What a joke comment.


----------



## DragonStriker

Do you blame Werdum for falling down after what Overeem did to Lesnar.


----------



## SideWays222

Condit won.


----------



## AmdM

DragonStriker said:


> Do you blame Werdum for falling down after what Overeem did to Lesnar.


Wait. Werdum has a time machine? :confused02:


----------



## Calminian

SideWays222 said:


> rd 1,2 Diaz landed plenty of punches.
> 
> Im not sure if your trying to say Diaz did nothing in rds 1 and 2. But if you are thats my response.


Yeah, I'd say Diaz landed 1 for about every 3 he took in rounds 1-2. In 3-5 it was more like 5 to 1.


----------



## DragonStriker

AmdM said:


> Wait. Werdum has a time machine? :confused02:


I'm saying Werdum didn't want to stand with Overeem.


----------



## SideWays222

Calminian said:


> Yeah, I'd say Diaz landed 1 for about every 3 he took in rounds 1-2. In 3-5 it was more like 5 to 1.


haha

Well reality is what matters and not what you say. But nice try...


----------



## EagleClaw29

Diaz did keep walking Condit down. Condit did not want to fight with his back against the cage. So he darted away each time it seemed that might happen.

But - most of the times that Diaz got close to putting Carlos against the cage - Carlos would throw the more damaging punches and kicks - and then move away. Or even as some have said, he would run away.

You don't win a fight just because you constantly walk your opponent down, you have to do damage when you finally catch him, & Diaz just didn't do enough.

It seemed like Condit & his folks came up with a gameplan to fight Diaz, stuck to it, didn't let any of Diaz's antics get to him, & it worked.

I would have rather seen the all out war type of fight.....but it is what it is.

I didn't read every post in this thread b4 this reply....did anybody mention where at the end of a couple of the rounds where Diaz walked towards Condit almost all the way to his corner with his best scowl on his face.

Diaz usually has the height and reach advantage in his fights....but he didn't in this fight. I think they have the same reach and Condit is a little taller. 

Bottom Line - I think Condit is just a more mature individual than Diaz...and that IMHO was a factor in his victory.

Immaturity has ruined or damaged many athletes careers no matter how talented they may be. Hopefully Diaz will grow up soon because I do think he is a very talented and entertaining MMA fighter.

And lastly - how many folks think that Diaz will retire for good because he didn't get the decision?


----------



## Killz

xxpillowxxjp said:


> What a joke comment.


I agree with Life B EZ here. I also thought this card sucked, and I also thought that Werdums striking looked excellent.


----------



## xxpillowxxjp

Killstarz said:


> I agree with Life B EZ here. I also thought this card sucked, and I also thought that Werdums striking looked excellent.


i also thought his striking looked amazing. But a 5 round display involving foot work, combos, and every other facet of striking.. yeah going with condit on in the striking department.


----------



## Calminian

EagleClaw29 said:


> Diaz did keep walking Condit down. Condit did not want to fight with his back against the cage. So he darted away each time it seemed that might happen.
> 
> But - most of the times that Diaz got close to putting Carlos against the cage - Carlos would throw the more damaging punches and kicks - and then move away. Or even as some have said, he would run away.
> 
> You don't win a fight just because you constantly walk your opponent down, you have to do damage when you finally catch him, & Diaz just didn't do enough.
> 
> It seemed like Condit & his folks came up with a gameplan to fight Diaz, stuck to it, didn't let any of Diaz's antics get to him, & it worked.
> 
> I would have rather seen the all out war type of fight.....but it is what it is.
> 
> I didn't read every post in this thread b4 this reply....did anybody mention where at the end of a couple of the rounds where Diaz walked towards Condit almost all the way to his corner with his best scowl on his face.
> 
> Diaz usually has the height and reach advantage in his fights....but he didn't in this fight. I think they have the same reach and Condit is a little taller.
> 
> Bottom Line - I think Condit is just a more mature individual than Diaz...and that IMHO was a factor in his victory.
> 
> Immaturity has ruined or damaged many athletes careers no matter how talented they may be. Hopefully Diaz will grow up soon because I do think he is a very talented and entertaining MMA fighter.
> 
> And lastly - how many folks think that Diaz will retire for good because he didn't get the decision?


Dana had it right when he called it Haggler Leonardest. Hagler stocked leonard the entire fight, but kept getting hit. Hagler is still complaining to this day. Tut you just don't win fights chasing after someone. You have to do damage. 

Very true on the immaturity aspect. Diaz needs to grow up. Walking after Condit scowling after every round was hilarious, especially later when it was clear he was going to lose. 

And yes, I wouldn't be surprised if Diaz quits after this. He's a spoil child.


----------



## TanyaJade

Watched the fight three times over this morning with a full stomach, and I cannot see how anyone thought Diaz won.

When I watched it the first time I gave Diaz the second and fifth rounds. I thought that the third (but gave it to Condit) was close and that the first and fourth were clearly Condit's. Now that I've watched it over and over I'm calling it 49-46 for Condit and gave him the second as well.

I'm really excited because this was pretty much the blueprint to beat the Diaz brothers is out and Condit executed it very well. Future opponents of the Diaz brothers are going to be able to use this gameplan standing or just get the takedown and use top control and positioning to score points like DHK did.

Already a great year for me. Miller subs Guillard, Aldo leaves Blackhouse, and Nick Diaz gets beaten and retired by one of my favorite fighters.


----------



## Calminian

Ari said:


> Watched the fight three times over this morning with a full stomach, and I cannot see how anyone thought Diaz won.
> 
> When I watched it the first time I gave Diaz the second and fifth rounds. I thought that the third (but gave it to Condit) was close and that the first and fourth were clearly Condit's. Now that I've watched it over and over I'm calling it 49-46 for Condit and gave him the second as well.
> 
> I'm really excited because this was pretty much the blueprint to beat the Diaz brothers is out and Condit executed it very well. Future opponents of the Diaz brothers are going to be able to use this gameplan standing or just get the takedown and use top control and positioning to score points like DHK did.
> 
> Already a great year for me. Miller subs Guillard, Aldo leaves Blackhouse, and Nick Diaz gets beaten and retired by one of my favorite fighters.


That's interesting. I had Condit winning the 5th, but possibly giving up the 2nd. In the 5th round he outstruck Diaz by a very gross margin. The takedown is the only thing Diaz had the round, and ended up on the bottom of that eventually.


----------



## Mckeever

How on earth can any one score the fifth round for Carlos Condit?

Explain how barely winning the striking exchanges for a couple of minutes is much more impressive than getting a take down and IMMEDIATELY taking the back, holding position and working for submission attempts?

In case y'all forgot, taking the back is one of the most dominant positions on the ground and Nick Diaz took Condit's back in an instant AND came relatively close to locking up a submission. That is much more impressive than narrowly out striking or out pointing a guy for a couple of minutes.

Didn't everyone score round 1 for BJ Penn against Fitch because he took him down and took Jon's back for a while, whilst the exchanges on the feet were clearly very close with no real winner?......One rule for one fighter and one for another. Nick basically did what BJ did to Fitch, but everyone scores the round for Condit? What is this blasphemy?


----------



## HexRei

Diaz landed many more strikes in the 2nd. Condit's kicks and silly spinning backfists just draw more attention than nick's popping him in the face and body.


----------



## Calminian

Mckeever said:


> How on earth can any one score the fifth round for Carlos Condit?
> 
> Explain how barely winning the striking exchanges for a couple of minutes is much more impressive than getting a take down and IMMEDIATELY taking the back, holding position and working for submission attempts?
> 
> In case y'all forgot, taking the back is one of the most dominant positions on the ground and Nick Diaz took Condit's back in an instant AND came relatively close to locking up a submission. That is much more impressive than narrowly out striking or out pointing a guy for a couple of minutes.
> 
> Didn't everyone score round 1 for BJ Penn against Fitch because he took him down and took Jon's back for a while, whilst the exchanges on the feet were clearly very close with no real winner?......One rule for one fighter and one for another. Nick basically did what BJ did to Fitch, but everyone scores the round for Condit? What is this blasphemy?


Barely won the striking exchange?? That speaks volumes to your bias right there. Condit toyed with him until the takedown, and then reversed and ended up on top eventually. 

The 2nd round is the only one I saw for Diaz. After that it was all downhill. Two of the ringside judges saw the 5th round the same way.


----------



## TanyaJade

I did give Diaz the fifth, but Condit did outstrike him by a decent margin up until the takedown. Still, Diaz was in dominant position for the majority of the round and did take Condit's back.

I'm still giving the second to Condit but I think it could have gone either way, I scored it 48-47 originally anyway but thought it was a very clear Condit victory.


----------



## NoYards

So what I hear from Diaz apologists is that only fighters that are willing to stand toe-to-toe and slug it out should be allowed to win any fights in the UFC ... you know, so the casual fans will like it.

This will lead to a fight organization where the champs will be a bunch of stupid sluggers fighting in the UFC while a bunch of real MM artists are sitting in their gyms saying "I could beat these knobs with one hand tied behind my back, but if I join the UFC I'll also have to nail my feet to the ground as well and not be allowed to use any of my skills or intelligence in the fight." We'll have the sport that doesn't allow the real fighters to participate for the sake of drawing in 'car crash' fans.

The sport evolves, people need to get used to that and enjoy the styles that work now, and realize that there will new styles (or combination of styles) that will take their place in the near future.

The UFC started with the assumption that big bruisers slugging it out in the middle of the ring would be the prototype for the UFC champion, then along came Gracie and showed that BJJ was more effective ... the UFC has gone through phases where BJJ, Muay Thai, Grappling, wrestling, heavy strikers, have all taken their turn being a dominate MMA style ... some of those martial art forms are less 'viewer friendly' than others when it comes to new viewers ... but they learn to appreciate that this is a game of bringing the right style at the right time to counter your opponent.

Diaz had his weakness exposed, he should learn from this experience and come up with a counter to this kind of 'Diaz defence', or if he can't then retire, as if he can't evolve with the reality that MMA fighting evolves, then he is the one that is the problem, not the world of MMA for evolving, evolving is a good thing. Boxing evolves a a much slower pace, and suffers because someone like Mayweather can come up with an effective, but boring style and there is no real quick way to counter the style because boxing limits the number of tools you can use to overcome someone who has mastered a boring defensive style.

This is an opportunity for Diaz to becomes a better fighter, but all him and his fans want is to turn back the clock and change the rules so that MMA fighting can't evolve to a point where it is possible to defeat Diaz in any way other than to become better at Diaz's style of fighting ... they are essentially saying that "yes, there is an good way to beat Diaz, fight him outside and keep moving and sticking, but we don't want this to be a valid form of MMA fighting."

Let's face it, even if Diaz and his fans had a point that Condit was 'running' too much, that is totally beside the point. The Diaz weakness has been exposed. The next fight we will see someone use the same form of strategy again the Diaz brothers only this time they will have perfected the technique to eliminate having to do anything that resembles 'running' .. they will slide around the Diaz forward march with more precise foot work and hit him from different angles, or someone like GSP will use that technique to evade and take him down ... whatever the actual details are going to be, Diaz will be effective countered and Diaz and his fans will have to finally deal with the fact that a one dimensional fighter WILL BE DEFEATED when fighting today's well rounded, multi disciplined artists.


----------



## Alessia

AmdM said:


> Look at her face, even she is ashamed of his performance!


Awww someone is so bitter. It's fine Diaz will go beat some can up somewhere to start his hype again. Until then want a cookie?


----------



## NoYards

EagleClaw29 said:


> Diaz did keep walking Condit down. Condit did not want to fight with his back against the cage. So he darted away each time it seemed that might happen.
> 
> But - most of the times that Diaz got close to putting Carlos against the cage - Carlos would throw the more damaging punches and kicks - and then move away. Or even as some have said, he would run away.
> 
> You don't win a fight just because you constantly walk your opponent down, you have to do damage when you finally catch him, & Diaz just didn't do enough.
> 
> It seemed like Condit & his folks came up with a gameplan to fight Diaz, stuck to it, didn't let any of Diaz's antics get to him, & it worked.
> 
> I would have rather seen the all out war type of fight.....but it is what it is.
> 
> I didn't read every post in this thread b4 this reply....did anybody mention where at the end of a couple of the rounds where Diaz walked towards Condit almost all the way to his corner with his best scowl on his face.
> 
> Diaz usually has the height and reach advantage in his fights....but he didn't in this fight. I think they have the same reach and Condit is a little taller.
> 
> Bottom Line - I think Condit is just a more mature individual than Diaz...and that IMHO was a factor in his victory.
> 
> Immaturity has ruined or damaged many athletes careers no matter how talented they may be. Hopefully Diaz will grow up soon because I do think he is a very talented and entertaining MMA fighter.
> 
> And lastly - how many folks think that Diaz will retire for good because he didn't get the decision?


I doubt if he will retire, but if so it will be because he is unwilling to change and learn from his mistakes.

Even if we give in to his whining and say that yes, Condit ran away too much, and Diaz actually won the fight, that is still totally beside the point.

Win, lose, or draw, Condit exposed the Diaz weakness, others will exploit this weakness, and they will do so in ways where there can be no whining that they 'ran away' while doing so. Others will improve on the basic Condit technique, and Diaz, if he is unable to adapt (and I see no evidence that he is capable of anything involving taking responsibility for his own shortcomings) will go the way of all fighters who can't adapt to the new world of MMA.

GSP would take the Condit technique and turn it into and 'elbow smashing', '4 strike combo from hell', 'take down at will', display of 'Diaz demolishment' ... it might actually even be exciting for new fans since Diaz is so incapable of change that GSP would have an easy route to a 2nd or 3rd KO against someone with a glaring weakness unwilling to learn from their mistakes.

A Condit rematch would probably go even more in favour of Condit. Now he knows it works he can prefect the techniques even further making his 'slipping' look less like 'running'.

I'm far more interested though in seeing if Condit can come up with a decent game plan aganst GSP ... being a GSP fan I hope he makes it interesting, but I also hope GSP can adapt and overcome.


----------



## Buakaw_GSP

NoYards said:


> GSP would take the Condit technique and turn it into and 'elbow smashing', '4 strike combo from hell', 'take down at will', display of 'Diaz demolishment' ... it might actually even be exciting for new fans since Diaz is so incapable of change that GSP would have an easy route to a 2nd or 3rd KO against someone with a glaring weakness unwilling to learn from their mistakes.
> 
> A Condit rematch would probably go even more in favour of Condit. Now he knows it works he can prefect the techniques even further making his 'slipping' look less like 'running'.
> 
> I'm far more interested though in seeing if Condit can come up with a decent game plan aganst GSP ... being a GSP fan I hope he makes it interesting, but I also hope GSP can adapt and overcome.


I agree. Even if Condit vs Diaz 2 does happen, I feel it will go in the favour of Condit more convincingly. Diaz does not change, he has the same style and same gameplan every fight. Condit will perfect his gameplan more, lay more damage, move more fluid, en route to a unanimous victory. Diaz hopes will rely on if Carlos decides to stay in the pocket to exchange or makes a terrible mistake and gives up his back again. Cause he certainly has poor takedown and kicking/kneeing ability, and has no clinch game. Diaz has glaring flaws, cant believe people like Rogan tried to deny that, but its his job to hype up people.


----------



## Toxic

Rematch not necessary, Condit is immune from the Diaz let me run my mouth until you stand and do what I want you to offense. Nick would have less luck the second time.


----------



## cookiefritas

Condit didn't expose anything, everyone has always known that Diaz's stance is prone to eating leg kicks because it is awkward to check kicks with that stance. Moreover, that stance makes it easier to get taken down, because it is more difficult to sprawl and what not. Diaz knows this and is willing to eat the leg kicks and get taken down because he is comfortable off of his back. He usually gets by with this, because he taunts his opponents and always gets them to engage in a boxing match in which he has the advantage in.


Now, there is a big difference between knowing how to beat an opponent, and actually being able to implement it. Condit managed to stay calm and keep to the gameplan, so more power to him. 

If you guys agree with the crying of Diaz, then you might as well agree with James Toney crying because noone wants to stand toe to toe with him.


----------



## Alessia

cookiefritas said:


> Condit didn't expose anything, everyone has always known that Diaz's stance is prone to eating leg kicks because it is awkward to check kicks with that stance. Moreover, that stance makes it easier to get taken down, because it is more difficult to sprawl and what not. Diaz knows this and is willing to eat the leg kicks and get taken down because he is comfortable off of his back. He usually gets by with this, because he taunts his opponents and always gets them to engage in a boxing match in which he has the advantage in.


Don't forget he can't adapt a game plan and he loses the exchanges unless his opponent is up against the cage.


----------



## NoYards

cookiefritas said:


> Now, there is a big difference between knowing how to beat an opponent, and actually being able to implement it. Condit managed to stay calm and keep to the gameplan, so more power to him.
> 
> If you guys agree with the crying of Diaz, then you might as well agree with James Toney crying because noone wants to stand toe to toe with him.


Of course, it will take a top level fighter to implement the plan but anyone that can will have a clear path to defeating Diaz.

And you make a good point about Toney. Just as any striker can now complain that being beating by a wrestler is only because wrestlers are "too cowardly to stand up and strike".

If the UFC is to implement any new changes to the rules because of this fight it should be that whining about losing, especially whining about being beating by a 'style' of fighting, means a forfeiture of your fight purse and a 1 year suspension.


----------



## Mckeever

Alessia said:


> Awww someone is so bitter. It's fine Diaz will go beat some can up somewhere to start his hype again. Until then want a cookie?


Yea, maybe Diaz will go beat up a can like BJ Penn again :confused03:


----------



## cookiefritas

Mckeever said:


> Yea, maybe Diaz will go beat up a can like BJ Penn again :confused03:


BJ is a beast for one or two rounds, but lately he has been a can after he gasses. He has been a punching bag in the third round for a couple of years now.


----------



## ashokjr

Mckeever said:


> Yea, maybe Diaz will go beat up a can like BJ Penn again :confused03:


BJ Penn is NOT a can. However, BJ didnt fight an intelligent fight when they fought. For all his skill set, if BJ moved away from the cage or taken Diaz down, he would have put a beat down on Diaz. Unfortunately, that didn't happen.


----------



## Buakaw_GSP

Say Condit vs Diaz 2 does happen, and then Condit employs the same strategy again and wins again. Would people still be up in arms saying that he was "running" or that Diaz was the better man? Or would they accept that Condit was the better MMA fighter and the right winner?

I dunno how people are saying that GSP vs Diaz would have been a great fight when Diaz cant get even get by Carlos Condit, and even Ellenberger wants a crack at Diaz. Does Diaz deserve a fight with GSP if he goes 0-2 or perhaps 1-1 against Carlos Condit? No matter how much trash he talks and no matter what the his fans say, it would be an extremely tough sell. And I doubt people as a whole would be interested to see on paper what would be considered a one sided match, like Anderson Silva vs Demian Maia. I mean if Diaz got frustrated by Condit and was defeated by him, GSP is going to do the same but on a higher level. 

Diaz got exposed by someone who didnt fall into his game and his fans realized that and are now just anxious/angry about his future. Id put my betting money on Condit and GSP easily. Id think Diaz would beat Ellenberger though.

EDIT: I read a quote that someone at least respected Cerrone in that he came to fight Nate Diaz. But he lost, and he lost by not listening to Jackson. Jackson told him multiple times to stop standing their trading blows and mix it up with takedowns. What did Cerrone do? Stay in the pocket and ate a ton of punches and was losing the fight. When Cerrone got a couple of leg sweeps, you can see in the background multiple times Jackson yelling at Cerrone to follow through, but nope, Cerrone backed up and let him stand up with Jackson raising his arms. Cerrone was pissed off before the fight, and during the fight, Diaz got into his head and he lost because of it. Thats the Diaz game, all it takes is someone to not get trapped in it and they can be picked apart. Rory MacDonald and Condit ironically are the ones who were smart and level headed, thats why they are on the rise after picking apart a Diaz.


----------



## HexRei

ashokjr said:


> BJ Penn is NOT a can. However, BJ didnt fight an intelligent fight when they fought. For all his skill set, if BJ moved away from the cage or taken Diaz down, he would have put a beat down on Diaz. Unfortunately, that didn't happen.


He tried to take Nick down four times (at least once every round), and even succeeded in the first. He just wasn't able to do anything with it.


----------



## slapshot

I had the first, second and fith 10-9 Diaz.
I had the third and fourth 10-9 Condit though I can see how some would score the third 10-10.

Condit missed just about every punch he threw in the first and second, he landed leg kicks but most were jabs.

I don't have a issue with Condit's strategy.


----------



## Dan0




----------



## NoYards

Dan0 said:


>


Really good point about Condit's strikes were no different in power or intent than were Diaz's, so that being equal, then Condit had the numbers on his side.

Since they both had essentially the same strategy, 'low powered' striking to keep from gassing too soon, the only difference was that Diaz fans fail to recognize that Diaz was as guilty of 'anti-fighting' as Condit (matter of fact Diaz's whole career is based on his anti-fighting - butterfly jabs & slaps and taunting to get his opponent to gas sooner than normal.)


----------



## Mckeever

NoYards said:


> *Really good point about Condit's strikes were no different in power or intent than were Diaz's,* so that being equal, then Condit had the numbers on his side.
> 
> Since they both had essentially the same strategy, 'low powered' striking to keep from gassing too soon, the only difference was that Diaz fans fail to recognize that Diaz was as guilty of 'anti-fighting' as Condit (matter of fact Diaz's whole career is based on his anti-fighting - butterfly jabs & slaps and taunting to get his opponent to gas sooner than normal.)


That is largely subjective. It looked to me like Nick was throwing the harder strikes and looking to do more damage. He consistently hunted for the head and body, whilst Condit mainly used leg kicks which seemed to have very little snap on them.

Again though, it's largely subjective and boils down to opinion.


----------



## khoveraki

Mckeever said:


> That is largely subjective. It looked to me like Nick was throwing the harder strikes and looking to do more damage. He consistently hunted for the head and body, whilst Condit mainly used leg kicks which seemed to have very little snap on them.
> 
> Again though, it's largely subjective and boils down to opinion.


I don't think he used mostly leg kicks. He landed a ton of hooks, spinning elbows, head kicks, and a big flying knee... and he even landed an awesome combo where he kicked Diaz right in the face and made Diaz stop mid-fight to see if his nose had broken.

I saw Diaz trying to barely pepper Condit, and in the post-fight conference Condit said Diaz was throwing maybe 60-70% power at most. Condit was also not visibly hurt (in demeanor or visible damage) at any point in the 25 minute fight.


----------



## Mckeever

khoveraki said:


> I don't think he used mostly leg kicks. He landed a ton of hooks, spinning elbows, head kicks, and a big flying knee... and he even landed an awesome combo where he kicked Diaz right in the face and made Diaz stop mid-fight to see if his nose had broken.
> 
> I saw Diaz trying to barely pepper Condit, and in the post-fight conference Condit said Diaz was throwing maybe 60-70% power at most. Condit was also not visibly hurt (in demeanor or visible damage) at any point in the 25 minute fight.


My eyes didn't see Condit land any of those strikes you mentioned. I don't know if your eyes saw what you described or your mind just wanted you to see Condit landing a flying knee, because on my television screen, Carlos Condit never landed any flying knee. I've seen the fight three times now.


----------



## khoveraki

Mckeever said:


> My eyes didn't see Condit land any of those strikes you mentioned. I don't know if your eyes saw what you described or your mind just wanted you to see Condit landing a flying knee, because on my television screen, Carlos Condit never landed any flying knee. I've seen the fight three times now.












three different occasions



















that's a great kick your boy attempted, luckily Condit was nice enough to show him the proper way to throw it.













this isn't relevant but hilarious, Diaz throws a hook then sneezes, hahaha

(this clearly shows Diaz is allergic to throwing anything with power on it, ZING.)


edit: still working on that flying knee, as soon as I can find the .gif or an image I'll post it.


----------



## Mckeever

khoveraki said:


> three different occasions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that's a great kick your boy attempted, luckily Condit was nice enough to show him the proper way to throw it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this isn't relevant but hilarious, Diaz throws a hook then sneezes, hahaha


Where are all of the spinning back fists he landed and that big flying knee? I had already acknowledged the kicks and punches he landed in rounds 4 and 5.

And can you please refrain from calling Nick Diaz "my boy". He certainly isn't and has't ever been "My Boy".


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## Hexabob69

http://blog.fightmetric.com/2012/02/condit-vs-diaz-official-ufc-statistics.html

Maybe this will clear up a few things with the vision problems... I know that this is no the end all be all but it does provide stats that your eyes may have missed... Just let the dead horse lay there...


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## Mckeever

Hexabob69 said:


> http://blog.fightmetric.com/2012/02/condit-vs-diaz-official-ufc-statistics.html
> 
> Maybe this will clear up a few things with the vision problems... I know that this is no the end all be all but it does provide stats that your eyes may have missed... Just let the dead horse lay there...


You mean the stats which illustrate Nick Diaz out landing Condit to the head and body, with Condit massively out landing Diaz in leg kicks?

I never said Condit didn't out leg kick him, but as those stats indicate, Nick clearly out landed Carlos to the head and to the body.


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## khoveraki

Mckeever said:


> You mean the stats which illustrate Nick Diaz out landing Condit to the head and body, with Condit massively out landing Diaz in leg kicks?
> 
> I never said Condit didn't out leg kick him, but as those stats indicate, Nick clearly out landed Carlos to the head and to the body.


So you're saying landing 5-10 more punches to the body/head in a TWENTY FIVE minute fight is better than landing over sixty more leg kicks? 



Over sixty more leg kicks, basically even head/body shots. And IMO Condit landed much harder strikes the head, with the kicks and backfist in rd2 and the hooks when he was against the cage.


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## AmdM

How can you hit someone with a leg kick to the face and that someone barely moves? :confused02:


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## khoveraki

AmdM said:


> How can you hit someone with a leg kick to the face and that someone barely moves? :confused02:


Why don't you just let Mckeever do the Diaz nuthugging in this thread, you just kind of seem like the annoying sidekick and you're not helping anyone's point.


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## Mckeever

khoveraki said:


> So you're saying landing 5-10 more punches to the body/head in a TWENTY FIVE minute fight is better than landing over sixty more leg kicks?
> 
> 
> 
> Over sixty more leg kicks, basically even head/body shots. And IMO Condit landed much harder strikes the head, with the kicks and backfist in rd2 and the hooks when he was against the cage.


5-10? He landed 20 more punches to the head and body.

I'd say that those twenty more punches to the head and body of Carlos were more significant than his feeler leg kicks, yes.

Melvin Manhoeuf vs Robbie Lawlwer is an example of powerful leg kicks.

Cyborg vs Diaz is an example of leg kicking with purpose and power.

Lyoto Machida vs Shogun Rua is an example of hard, powerful leg kicks.

Nick Diaz vs Carlos Condit? I didn't see Condit throw any real power leg strikes throughout the entire fight.

Still waiting on all of these hard spinning back firsts and the big flying knee Condit landed. Get to work.


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## AmdM

khoveraki said:


> Why don't you just let Mckeever do the Diaz nuthugging in this thread, you just kind of seem like the annoying sidekick and you're not helping anyone's point.


Why don't you answer the question? Not convenient?
Perhaps you'd be able to realize my point...


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## NoYards

Mckeever said:


> 5-10? He landed 20 more punches to the head and body.
> 
> I'd say that those twenty more punches to the head and body of Carlos were more significant than his feeler leg kicks, yes.
> 
> Melvin Manhoeuf vs Robbie Lawlwer is an example of powerful leg kicks.
> 
> Cyborg vs Diaz is an example of leg kicking with purpose and power.
> 
> Lyoto Machida vs Shogun Rua is an example of hard, powerful leg kicks.
> 
> Nick Diaz vs Carlos Condit? I didn't see Condit throw any real power leg strikes throughout the entire fight.
> 
> Still waiting on all of these hard spinning back firsts and the big flying knee Condit landed. Get to work.




Where did you see Diaz throw strikes to the head that were any more 'powerful' than the kicks Condit threw?

You seem to have had radar guns on all of Condits strikes, and even though Diaz came away with a bruised up right thigh, and cut up face, Condits strikes were weak ... on the other hand even though there were far less damage taken by Condit you somehow judge his strikes to be of more power?

I think you're just deluding yourself to try and make your case.

Can you back up your reasoning why Diaz's strikes were powerful and Condits were not?


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## NoYards

AmdM said:


> How can you hit someone with a leg kick to the face and that someone barely moves? :confused02:


I didn't see Diaz's strikes 'move' a whole lot of anything either.

So neither fighter struck very hard ... that just leaves numbers, cleanness and percentages to go by ... where Condit clearly has an advantage ... certainly no 'slam dunk' for Diaz at the very leasst.


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## Mckeever

NoYards said:


> Where did you see Diaz throw strikes to the head that were any more 'powerful' than the kicks Condit threw?
> 
> You seem to have had radar guns on all of Condits strikes, and even though Diaz cam away with a bruised up right thigh, and cut up face, Condits strikes were weak ... on the other hand even though there were far damage taken by Condit you somehow judge his strikes to be of more power?
> 
> I think you're just deluding yourself to try and make your case.
> 
> Can you back up your reasoning why Diaz's strikes were powerful and Condits were not?


A bruised thigh? Where is the proof of this? A cut up face is not any way to indicate the winner/loser of a fight. Some fighters cut and bruise much easier than others. Diaz practically starts to bruise and cut at the start of round 1.

I feel that hitting the head and the body is more significant than hitting the leg (with soft leg kicks at that). It also looked more like Nick was throwing with more intent and purpose than Condit was, but as I pointed out to you earlier (which you ignored), it's largely subjective.

I'm not deluding myself, just because I have a differing opinion to yours doesn't make that opinion deluded. I feel like Nick was looking for the harder strikes and landed more strikes to the head and body. Nick had the most dangerous position on Condit in the entire fight (round 5 when Nick took the back).

I feel he won rounds 1,2 and 5. It was a very close fight. That is my opinion on the matter, many other people share this opinion and many others share your opinion (hence the fight ending very controversially).


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## HexRei

It's not like Carlos' face looked clean and unmarked afterward, they both took visible right eye damage.


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## Woodenhead

Any good pix of Diaz after the fight? Seems like he's hiding so not to show how much damage he really took. (subjective opinion, of course, but so is this entire debate over this fight - which, BTW, makes me smile more & more every day the more people try to defend Diaz.)


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