# Belfort out of UFC 173; Weidman vs Machida now set for main event



## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

https://twitter.com/mmafighting/status/439286398525640705

To the surprise of no one.

EDIT: And Machida is IN! Weidman vs Machida is on!

http://msn.foxsports.com/ufc/story/...chris-weidman-in-main-event-at-ufc-173-022814


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

That was quicker than I expected.


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## EastonAssassin (Nov 5, 2009)

I knew he would...such a fraud.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

:laugh: sad really.


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## boatoar (May 14, 2010)

Wow. I expected at least a week before the announcement. Too bad. The old lion is no longer ready...

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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Hahahahaha my god that isn't suspect at all is it


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

I actually am a bit surprised. I call Vitor an idiot mainly because of the funny that he brought with thinking he should get a Bones rematch. But I thought he would have enough sense to stay of the stuff for a fight in Vegas. No wonder he was so mad and went on about Weidman should go though the same tests. Vitor blew his chance. He sort of ruined his last run he had even though we all knew he was TRT'd to the gills down in Brazil. People will call those headkicks tainted just for the fact of this.

What is more sad is the UFC...yet again. Now all of a sudden Dana is against TRT and UFC is following Vegas and saying they are encouraging TRT to be banned in all commissions. Suuuuureee. What was their stance when they sent Vitor to Brazil over and over so he could TRT himself crazy. They didn't care much then. UFC is a joke these days. Too bad there are so many UFC sheep that won't give them the backlash they deserve on many of these issues. 

Machida has a better shot than Vitor for sure.


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## wolunt (Jan 11, 2010)

Belfort didn't waste any time quitting without TRT, that's a small positive I guess.


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## Jesy Blue (May 8, 2009)

Machida's about to join such greats as BJ Penn & Randy Couture as belt holders in 2 divisions.

Avenge Anderson!


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Hahahahahahahaha - not the proudest moment for Vitor is it? 

This made my morning:










WAR Machida!


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Words can't express how happy this makes me.


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

I'm absolutely gutted.

Yes TRT is unethical and I'm pleased it'll never rear it's head in MMA again but I was looking forward to that Weidman-Belfort fight so much, feckin git big baals man.


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## Andrus (Oct 18, 2011)

Well, that fudging sucks.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

I literally burst out laughing when I read this on twitter. Vitor Belfort is a complete joke! :laugh:

Glad Machida got the shot, even though im not a fan of his, him facing chris weidman really interests me.


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## AlanS (Jun 16, 2009)

Paahaaaahahahahaaaaa!!!!!!

Buggers up my FFL though as I see Machida taking it.

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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)




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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

I think this recent photo of vitor belongs in this thread, just for the LULZ:


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Jesus ain't saving him this time.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

The only thing Jesus ever saved me from was my yard work.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> Are you sure Vitor started TRT vs anderson silva?? I dont doubt it but i cant find a article to support that. I dont remember the athletic commission putting it out there that Vitor asked for TRT exemption until the Bisping fight. The only thing i kind of remember that suggested Vitor started TRT before the Silva fight was when he said something like "I have been using it 3 years" but im not even certain about that. It is a bit foggy tbh.
> 
> what am i wrong about??
> 
> ...


Hahahaha what did i say.

Now if he just throws out the "I got injured" excuse im going to laugh my ass off.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

TanyaJade said:


> The only thing Jesus ever saved me from was my yard work.


Jesus saved me from being a commie


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

What. The. ****. Vitor.

Just cycle like you used to in the old days.

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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

On the one hand, I was really looking forward to Vitor getting squished by Weidman.

On the other hand...


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## GarethUFC (Sep 12, 2007)

Am i the only one that is sad by this, he might be a juice head but at least he came to fight, not run away like lyoto. He BORES me to tears!! 

I'm not one bit excited about this fight at all.. I only pray to JESUS he gets knocked out !!!!


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

GarethUFC said:


> Am i the only one that is sad by this, he might be a juice head but at least he came to fight, not run away like lyoto. He BORES me to tears!!
> 
> I'm not one bit excited about this fight at all.. I only pray to JESUS he gets knocked out !!!!


Belfort has literally just run away from a fight because he cannot cheat. Coward.

Lyoto may not have the style that excites you, but he never backs down from a fight. 

Will be a great fight. Not sure who takes it tbh. Weidman will have a plan for Machida and no doubt execute it perfectly. That said, I think Machida will catch him at some point. Potentially with one of his knees as Chris comes in. Wouldn't be surprised by ANY outcome to be honest. Would love to see Machida hold a belt again though and avenge Silva. 

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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

This made my day. Hilarious!


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

GarethUFC said:


> Am i the only one that is sad by this, he might be a juice head but at least he came to fight, not run away like lyoto. He BORES me to tears!!
> 
> I'm not one bit excited about this fight at all.. I only pray to JESUS he gets knocked out !!!!


No man you are not... i am sure alot of people were looking forward to that fight.

But the thing is...

Vitor pulled out of a fight because he couldnt abuse TRT....

I dont think we are going to focus on how sad we are that we wont get to see that fight.
If he got a legit injury that would be the case. But he didnt... even if he will probably come out in a couple days and claim he did.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

I was under the impression that ZUFFA pulled him from the fight. Am I wrong?

Edit: yes, I am.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Chris will take down machida and smash him, machida isn't impossible to catch or takedown. Davis and Jones both took lyoto down a few times, only once for jones when he got inside and it changed the fight immediately.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> I was under the impression that ZUFFA pulled him from the fight. Am I wrong?
> 
> Edit: yes, I am.


He pulled out himself due to



> "Belfort is accepting of the commission's decision, and he's pulling out to give himself time to get off his TRT program to move forward with his MMA career without TRT."
> 
> "Nevada State Athletic Commission recently altered its policy and no longer will permit testosterone use exemptions, and will not permit a TRT program. As other jurisdictions may follow suit, I am going to drop my TRT program and compete in MMA without it," Belfort said in a statement. "Given the time constraints involved between now and my proposed next bout in May, I have determined not to apply for a license to fight in Nevada at this time."


His F*cking fight isnt until MAY 24th!!! He literally still has 3 months and has known about this fight for a long time now.

That right there tells you how depended on TRT Vitor is.

Just like i said in another thread before the news emerged of him pulling out... Vitor is mentally weak and TRT has been giving him Confidence and without it its very likely to break him mentally and ruin his confidence and its likely he pulls out and it seems i was correct.


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## King Daisuke (Mar 25, 2013)

But...but...but..._TRT wasn't the reason Vitor kept winning! TRT didn't teach him how to kick! Vitor doesn't need TRT to fight Weidman_! Seriously, what happened to "If they want me to fight him at a disadvantage, I will"?

Yeah I didn't think so. What a joke.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Guys this is not funny, camera's were able to catch Vitor reaction upon finding out about the TRT banning.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Jacare deserved the shot more. 

5 rounds of Machida back peddling. Yay.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Jacare deserved the shot more.
> 
> 5 rounds of Machida back peddling. Yay.


More like 2 rounds of being smashed on the bottom til he is rendered unconcious


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Hahahaha what did i say.
> 
> Now if he just throws out the "I got injured" excuse im going to laugh my ass off.


I'm confused on why this is being misconstrued into something it isn't.

Vitor has been training with TRT in preparation for this fight. A ban was placed on TRT, and he's pulling out of the fight so not to risk testing positive. 

Why is this a bad thing? It's not like he got caught using something he wasn't fully admitting he was using. It's not ironic that he pulled out... he isn't "pretending to be injured" 

He's calling it like it is... 'I'm currently on TRT and if it's banned, I will need time to phase off it before I'll fight again'. Wow sounds pretty responsible to me. 

Drama drama drama


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> 5 rounds of Machida back peddling. Yay.


I've seen enough from Chris to give me confidence he'll find a way to counter Lyotos style. At least, enough to make the fight more exciting then your average Machida fight.

Not that I dont like Machidas usual style. I really do. But motly, I'm always very interested in how his opponents will adapt.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

amoosenamedhank said:


> I'm confused on why this is being misconstrued into something it isn't.
> 
> Vitor has been training with TRT in preparation for this fight. A ban was placed on TRT, and he's pulling out of the fight so not to risk testing positive.
> 
> ...


But the fight is months away? Surely 3 months is more than enough time to get off the TRT AND have a full training camp? 

If he stopped taking it now, or cycled off it now, he'd be clear of synthetic testosterone in no time at all.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Killz said:


> But the fight is months away? Surely 3 months is more than enough time to get off the TRT AND have a full training camp?
> 
> If he stopped taking it now, or cycled off it now, he'd be clear of synthetic testosterone in no time at all.


Exactly. Besides, Vitors always going on about how his cheating is all above board and proper. Im sure all the paperwork is in place and Im sure the board would have no problem, if his last dose of juice was before the ban came into play.


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## Walter (Jun 22, 2009)

Too bad, I wanted to see that matchup.

I'm leaning towards Machida, can't wait to see the betting odds.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

Killz said:


> But the fight is months away? Surely 3 months is more than enough time to get off the TRT AND have a full training camp?
> 
> If he stopped taking it now, or cycled off it now, he'd be clear of synthetic testosterone in no time at all.


I have no idea how long it takes to cycle off and have clean blood; however it could make a significant change to his camp in one of the biggest fights of his life. 

He was doing something legal... it made it's way onto a banned list. Now he's re-evaluating what he's doing. 

I guess I don't see the humor in it. :dunno:


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

That really sucks. Machida's style of fighting setups up a frustrating and much more boring matchup. Vitor vs Weidman was setup for fireworks. Hopefully Machida doesn't win another fight while stuck in reverse, that would be a shame.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Weidman Vs Vitor was set up for Weidman to look bad cause he'd be Chael Sonnen'ening with his TDs. Machida makes it more interesting.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Weidman Vs Vitor was set up for Weidman to look bad cause he'd be Chael Sonnen'ening with his TDs. Machida makes it more interesting.


I couldn't disagree more. Vitor would engage, Machida will provide far less action.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Vitor would engage, Weidman would cling to wrestling.

Now we have a chess match.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

I'm fine with either... Weidman will take on and beat all-comers, and break Silva's title-defense record.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Because if there's one thing MMA fans love to watch, it's chess! 

I appreciate strategy. I enjoy watching fighters implement their game plans. I just don't care to see 25 minutes of Weidman attempting to figure Machida out. 

I can't be the only one who was frustrated with Machida's running and Mousasi's not engaging at Fight Night. I know Chris is unlikely to be as lackadaisical as Mousasi was, but Machida is pretty damn good at being elusive. And that style is fairly hit or miss as far as entertainment value goes. I don't expect blood and guts, but I certainly insist on entertaining TITLE FIGHTS.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

From Bispings twitter. "@bisping: So TRT is now officially banned in Nevada. U could argue I only have one loss on my record. After I beat Kennedy I want my shot at the title"

Haha yeah!


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Chael was barely on the stuff when he kicked Bisping's arse


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Because if there's one thing MMA fans love to watch, it's chess!
> 
> I appreciate strategy. I enjoy watching fighters implement their game plans. I just don't care to see 25 minutes of Weidman attempting to figure Machida out.
> 
> I can't be the only one who was frustrated with Machida's running and Mousasi's not engaging at Fight Night. I know Chris is unlikely to be as lackadaisical as Mousasi was, but Machida is pretty damn good at being elusive. And that style is fairly hit or miss as far as entertainment value goes.


I agree with all of this. For me it can be frustrating watching guys like Machida, Edgar and Cruz hop in and out and not engaging. I understand it's very skillful and smart for not taking damage. It's just a frustrating style for me to watch personally.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Chael was barely on the stuff when he kicked Bisping's arse


Pshh he was on it JUST ENOUGH to secure a decision win.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Stapler said:


> Pshh he was on it JUST ENOUGH to secure a decision win.


Yeah but considering Bisping was gifted a win he didn't deserve vs Hamill, we can call it even :laugh:

Bisping can't help but be a bitter little d-bag lol


> “This is going to piss me off as well, because if Weidman is victorious, he fought Vitor not on the juice. So Weidman’s going to get even more credit. Is he credible? No. Anderson (Silva) broke his leg (in his second fight with Weidman); the first fight he acted like an idiot. Against Vitor, he fought him not on the juice. So let’s put it all in perspective.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

OU said:


> Yeah but considering Bisping was gifted a win he didn't deserve vs Hamill, we can call it even :laugh:


Well that's ok cos in a lot of peoples eyes he beat Rashad :bye01:


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I personally love watching Machida fight. It's complete mastery. The way he tripped Mousasi was genius.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

I was excited about the potential of both fights... so while I'm still excited to see the Machida fight... I'm disappointed about the Vitor fight.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Killz said:


> Well that's ok cos *in a lot of peoples eyes* he beat Rashad :bye01:


Not mine :thumb01:


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

No one on planet earth thinks Bisping beat Rashad, lol. Bisping hasn't spent that much time under another man since his days in the Scouts.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Wow, this gives me an entire new perspective on both TRT and Vitor Belfort. I had kind of felt like TRT was cheating, but I didn't think it was completely blatant and it was a far cry from steroid abuse. Clearly, I was wrong. I also have now lost any respect I ever had for Belfort and his recent string of success amounts to exactly jack shit and I wouldn't be at all disappointed if at the very least his last three fights were overturned to NC's. If the guy is experiencing such a drastic difference between when he is on and off of it that he needs almost three months to get his shit in line and find a new way to get around the system, then **** him. 

That is all


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

joshua7789 said:


> Wow, this gives me an entire new perspective on both TRT and Vitor Belfort. I had kind of felt like TRT was cheating, but I didn't think it was completely blatant and it was a far cry from steroid abuse. Clearly, I was wrong. I also have now lost any respect I ever had for Belfort and his recent string of success amounts to exactly jack shit and I wouldn't be at all disappointed if at the very least his last three fights were overturned to NC's. If the guy is experiencing such a drastic difference between when he is on and off of it that he needs almost three months to get his shit in line and find a new way to get around the system, then **** him.
> 
> That is all


How could they overturn his previous wins if TRT was a legal substance at the time? 

Of course TRT was apart of his success... otherwise he wouldn't have ever used it. I just can't figure out why this one act is some sort of proof that he's some fraud.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I'm not sure why people are all over Vitor. Yes, it's unfortunate that he's become dependable on TRT to the point where he's pulled out of this fight. But he wasn't "cheating". The Commissions and the UFC allowed for TRT, and not once did Vitor test above the allowable limits. The Commissions and the UFC suddenly backtracking on something they once allowed doesn't make Vitor a piece of garbage.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> No one on planet earth thinks Bisping beat Rashad, lol. Bisping hasn't spent that much time under another man since his days in the Scouts.


Shhh! I'm busy here!


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

joshua7789 said:


> Wow, this gives me an entire new perspective on both TRT and Vitor Belfort. I had kind of felt like TRT was cheating, but I didn't think it was completely blatant and it was a far cry from steroid abuse. Clearly, I was wrong. I also have now lost any respect I ever had for Belfort and his recent string of success amounts to exactly jack shit and* I wouldn't be at all disappointed if at the very least his last three fights were overturned to NC's*. If the guy is experiencing such a drastic difference between when he is on and off of it that he needs almost three months to get his shit in line and find a new way to get around the system, then **** him.
> 
> That is all


That would insane and I would be firmly against it. You can't tell him he is within the rules at the time only to later go back and say what you told him was allowed at that moment is now going to be deemed illegal. He won those fights based on the rules in place at that moment.
That would be like taking Gracie's wins away while he was wearing a gi and pulling hair. No one violated any rules that were in place at the time.



Canadian Psycho said:


> I'm not sure why people are all over Vitor. Yes, it's unfortunate that he's become dependable on TRT to the point where he's pulled out of this fight. But he wasn't "cheating". The Commissions and the UFC allowed for TRT, and not once did Vitor test above the allowable limits. The Commissions and the UFC suddenly backtracking on something they once allowed doesn't make Vitor a piece of garbage.


CP hit it on the head again.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

OU said:


> That would insane and I would be firmly against it. You can't tell him he is within the rules at the time only to later go back and say what you told him was allowed at that moment is now going to be deemed illegal. He won those fights based on the rules in place at that moment.
> That would be like taking Gracie's wins away while he was wearing a gi and pulling hair. No one violated any rules that were in place at the time.


Ok, so maybe that would be a bit of an overreaction. But I still maintain that Vitor is an asshole for pulling out of the Weidman fight and his last few wins don't mean a whole lot.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

TRT doesn't teach one how to do head kicks... and since Vitor won those fights in the first round, I don't really see how TRT would have helped him in the fights... the training is another thing though.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

joshua7789 said:


> Ok, so maybe that would be a bit of an overreaction. But I still maintain that Vitor is an asshole for pulling out of the Weidman fight and his last few wins don't mean a whole lot.


I understand the impulse to overreact with the recent news, I do it all the time 
I wasn't aware that TRT was the primary reason for Vitor pulling out, that would be disappointing news for sure. I have no problem looking at his current streak differently. However Hendo was on the same stuff so it's not like he had an advantage there.



hellholming said:


> TRT doesn't teach one how to do head kicks... and since Vitor won those fights in the first round, I don't really see how TRT would have helped him in the fights... the training is another thing though.


The ability to come into a fight healthier then you would have is a major advantage IMO. From what I understand that is a big part of TRT, recovery time.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

hellholming said:


> TRT doesn't teach one how to do head kicks... and since Vitor won those fights in the first round, I don't really see how TRT would have helped him in the fights... the training is another thing though.


He beat Bisping in the second round, not the first.

For the record, I scored Bisping vs. Hamill for Bisping, and I'm not even joking, but I thought Rashad won a 30-27 decision against Bisping.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

amoosenamedhank said:


> I'm confused on why this is being misconstrued into something it isn't.
> 
> Vitor has been training with TRT in preparation for this fight. A ban was placed on TRT, and he's pulling out of the fight so not to risk testing positive.
> 
> ...


Wasn't Vitor not allowed on the stuff anyway in the states? He tested positive for roids before, so didn't that mean Vegas wouldn't allow him his TRT exemption for that fact?

So either way he wasn't allowed. Just because they banned it completely doesn't mean he was ever allowed to do it in the states. That is why he fought in Brazil.

So no it isn't drama drama drama. Vitor knew he couldn't get the exemption, that is why he said if they want me to fight without it I will.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Wasn't Vitor not allowed on the stuff anyway in the states? He tested positive for roids before, so didn't that mean Vegas wouldn't allow him his TRT exemption for that fact?
> 
> So either way he wasn't allowed. Just because they banned it completely doesn't mean he was ever allowed to do it in the states. That is why he fought in Brazil.
> 
> So no it isn't drama drama drama. Vitor knew he couldn't get the exemption, that is why he said if they want me to fight without it I will.


I totally forgot that he had been busted by roids before (see what kind of good will KO'ing a few folks with a head kick will do for ya?). 

So in conclusion, **** that dude. He sucks more now.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

hellholming said:


> TRT doesn't teach one how to do head kicks... and since Vitor won those fights in the first round, I don't really see how TRT would have helped him in the fights... the training is another thing though.


You can not seperate the fights from the training. The fights are just the culmination of the training. The training makes the fights the way they are. TRT has a huge impact on how fighters can and do train, so consequently TRT has a huge impact on how the fights go down.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Voiceless said:


> You can not seperate the fights from the training. The fights are just the culmination of the training. The training makes the fights the way they are. TRT has a huge impact on how fighters can and do train, so consequently TRT has a huge impact on how the fights go down.


I wouldn't bother. People who don't even understand what it is used for won't get it. They think everyone is saying his KOs are a direct result of TRT. Which no one ever said. TRT gives you advantages in the gym. Allow you to train harder, longer, while recovering faster and being about to do it all again the next day. A better trained athlete is usually a better athlete.

Some people have no clue what the stances even are on this. Vitor dug his own grave when he got caught with roids. I don't feel sorry for him that he is labeled a cheat for the rest of his career after he did in fact cheat.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I wouldn't bother. People who don't even understand what it is used for won't get it. They think everyone is saying his KOs are a direct result of TRT. Which no one ever said. TRT gives you advantages in the gym. Allow you to train harder, longer, while recovering faster and being about to do it all again the next day. A better trained athlete is usually a better athlete.
> 
> Some people have no clue what the stances even are on this. Vitor dug his own grave when he got caught with roids. I don't feel sorry for him that he is labeled a cheat for the rest of his career after he did in fact cheat.


Pulling out of this fight well in advance makes it way worse and paints a pretty obvious picture of how heavily Vitor relies on TRT to stay competitive. He clearly knows that he can't beat Weidman without some kind of bullshit pharmaceutical help.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I wouldn't bother. People who don't even understand what it is used for won't get it. They think everyone is saying his KOs are a direct result of TRT. Which no one ever said. *TRT gives you advantages in the gym. Allow you to train harder, longer, while recovering faster and being about to do it all again the next day. A better trained athlete is usually a better athlete.*
> 
> Some people have no clue what the stances even are on this. Vitor dug his own grave when he got caught with roids. I don't feel sorry for him that he is labeled a cheat for the rest of his career after he did in fact cheat.


Great post, especially the bolded. Don't really agree with the "cheat" label. His cheating came a long time ago. But his TRT use was allowed and I don't blame him for the use, I blame the system at the time and the UFC for allowing it.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I wouldn't bother. People who don't even understand what it is used for won't get it. They think everyone is saying his KOs are a direct result of TRT. Which no one ever said. TRT gives you advantages in the gym. Allow you to train harder, longer, while recovering faster and being about to do it all again the next day. A better trained athlete is usually a better athlete.
> 
> Some people have no clue what the stances even are on this. Vitor dug his own grave when he got caught with roids. I don't feel sorry for him that he is labeled a cheat for the rest of his career after he did in fact cheat.


Stop being so damned condescending :sarcastic09:

There are people in here putting Vitor on full blast for cheating via his use of TRT, and not his prior steroid abuse. I take no issue with anyone knocking Vitor for using steroids, even though he was clearly a young and dumb kid at the time. But to claim that Vitor has cheated via his TRT usage is simply incorrect. You can't cheat by using something that the Commissions permit fighters to use. 

He didn't test over. His exemptions were permitted in Brazil. And whether he was ever going to be granted an exemption in the US is irrelevant. He has won his last several fights under permissible circumstances. You can spin it any way you like, but facts are facts.

Vitor has dug his own grave. And he has made himself look bad in this instance. But he hasn't cheated in his last however-many fights. TRT being banned today doesn't mean it wasn't acceptable yesterday.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

Vitor is saying the UFC pulled him... if that's true, I hope find of you realize you were hot on the trigger...





> Vitor Belfort is out of UFC 173, but the middleweight says it was not his decision.
> 
> Hours after the UFC announced Lyoto Machida will replace "The Phenom" in a title fight with Chris Weidman on May 24 in Las Vegas, Nevada, Belfort posted a statement on his Facebook page on the subject.
> 
> ...


http://www.mmafighting.com/2014/2/2...t-ufc-pulled-me-from-ufc-173-i-didnt-withdraw

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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Members of MMAF hot on the trigger and jumping the gun without having all of the facts? Never!


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

I can't stand this "blame the system" not the individual garbage. Just because a system allows or even encourages the use of some thing, doesn't make it right, ever. The system said that black people could be used as a white man's slave. By using this "system" logic, everyone who committed such acts of exploitation and slavery back then weren't to blame, they were just going along with the system, there is no self responsibility.

I don't care what the system says, every individual has a moral obligation to judge things based on their own conscience with their own mind. Vitor is a coward and a fraud, and so is every other fighter abusing things like TRT, I couldn't give two shits if the athletic commission decided it was legal and okay to use before.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Members of MMAF hot on the trigger and jumping the gun without having all of the facts? Never!


I have a disclaimer. In one of my post I said I wasn't aware that the TRT ban was the primary reason for his removal and if it was that is disappointing news.



ReptilianSlayer said:


> I can't stand this "blame the system" not the individual garbage. Just because a system allows or even encourages the use of some thing, doesn't make it right, ever. The system said that black people could be used as a white man's slave. By using this "system" logic, everyone who committed such acts of exploitation and slavery back then weren't to blame, they were just going along with the system, there is no self responsibility.
> 
> I don't care what the system says, every individual has a moral obligation to judge things based on their own conscience with their own mind. Vitor is a coward and a fraud, and so is every other fighter abusing things like TRT, I couldn't give two shits if the athletic commission decided it was legal and okay to use before.


Wow comparing segregation or slavery to TRT? Has to be the worst comparison I have ever seen. I disagree with your entire post but that part is just insane.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

You guys are ridiculous lol might as well close this thread now


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> I can't stand this "blame the system" not the individual garbage. Just because a system allows or even encourages the use of some thing, doesn't make it right, ever. The system said that black people could be used as a white man's slave. By using this "system" logic, everyone who committed such acts of exploitation and slavery back then weren't to blame, they were just going along with the system, there is no self responsibility.
> 
> I don't care what the system says, every individual has a moral obligation to judge things based on their own conscience with their own mind. Vitor is a coward and a fraud, and so is every other fighter abusing things like TRT, I couldn't give two shits if the athletic commission decided it was legal and okay to use before.


This is literally the dumbest thing I've ever read on this site. Congratulations. You've set the bar so very, very low for the rest of us.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> I can't stand this "blame the system" not the individual garbage. Just because a system allows or even encourages the use of some thing, doesn't make it right, ever. The system said that black people could be used as a white man's slave. By using this "system" logic, everyone who committed such acts of exploitation and slavery back then weren't to blame, they were just going along with the system, there is no self responsibility.
> 
> I don't care what the system says, every individual has a moral obligation to judge things based on their own conscience with their own mind. Vitor is a coward and a fraud, and so is every other fighter abusing things like TRT, I couldn't give two shits if the athletic commission decided it was legal and okay to use before.


Don't let the haters detract from your point! TRT is not only the slavery of MMA, it is the genocide, the late term abortion, pedophilia, and the baby seal clubbing of this sport!!!! The good Dr. would have marched against it had he the opportunity!


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

I don't pay too much attention to TRT so I don't know about much with it, so whatever. Was looking forward to that fight but the replacement is good. I would say my interest in Weidman's next fight went from an A to a B+/A-


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Forget the TRT, I'm gutted that Weidman vs Belfort isn't going ahead. Was so excited for that fight. TRT might let Belfort train harder, for longer, but it doesn't make you actually better at fighting. Vitor's just started putting shit together, and has got seriously good. He's looked like a destroyer at 185 recently, the way he's incorporated the Taekwondo techniques with such ease, is so so impressive. Hopefully Weidman will put Machida away and we'll get to see him vs Vitor soon!


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Machida does seem to be more comfortable against wrestlers, they struggle with his striking riddles and can't get a hold of him. He doesn't let himself go so much with good strikers.

This will definitely test Chris' temperament, he may have to stand with Lyoto for the majority of this fight. If he gets tired, impatient or lets Lyoto know he's struggling to read him, the crane kicks will start to fly.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

SM33 said:


> Machida does seem to be more comfortable against wrestlers, they struggle with his striking riddles and can't get a hold of him. He doesn't let himself go so much with good strikers.
> 
> This will definitely test Chris' temperament, he may have to stand with Lyoto for the majority of this fight. If he gets tired, impatient or lets Lyoto know he's struggling to read him, the crane kicks will start to fly.


Look how frustrated Mousasi was and he's a very seasoned striker...

That is what Machida brings to this fight. If his TDD and scramble can hold up... will Weidman be able to stand for 5 rounds with the guy without making a mistake.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

Another thing - One of the UFC's doctors prescribed vitor TRT. Then the UFC matched vitor in brazil in which they have much control over the athletic commission there. So why pull him from the fight when its the beast you created?


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> Another thing - One of the UFC's doctors prescribed vitor TRT. Then the UFC matched vitor in brazil in which they have much control over the athletic commission there. So why pull him from the fight when its the beast you created?


I'm trying to keep my eye on twitter to see how this 'he said he said unfolds'. 

Did Vitor pull out (don't get cute with that) or did the UFC replace him?


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

OU said:


> Great post, especially the bolded. Don't really agree with the "cheat" label. His cheating came a long time ago. But his TRT use was allowed and I don't blame him for the use, I blame the system at the time and the UFC for allowing it.


I don't blame him at all for TRT use. Hendo is one of my favorites and I realize the old man sort of needs more T in a way. ANd it was perfectly legal within the right range.

But guys over and over have said how TRT isn't a miracle drug. How it isn't the reason for their success late in age. Vitor said himself he would fight off it if he had too. Well here it is. He has too. And he pulled out of the fight. I'm not knocking him for TRT legal use. I am knocking him for how obvious it is that it IS a miracle drug and he is probably no where near the athlete, well trained fighter that he is when he is on the stuff. 

Vitor pretty much knew he wasn't going to get an exemption. He was being tested. Ti my knowledge anyone who has been caught for roids in the past cannot get that exemption. (wasn't he off it for the Bones fight?) (Hendo got off it for the Rashad fight since he was not given an exemption). But he TRT'd to the gills anyway. He comes back with no TRT and loses badly and everyone will question his wins.

I'm not calling him a cheat for his TRT use. But his TRT dependence is sort of related to killing his body with roids back in the day. He did in fact cheat and got caught with roids. Sure it was a while ago, but I'm not going to feel that bad for the guy if people call him a cheater.



Canadian Psycho said:


> TRT being banned today doesn't mean it wasn't acceptable yesterday.


Did I ever say that? Are you trying to debate my point or do you just have some problem with me?



xxpillowxxjp said:


> Another thing - One of the UFC's doctors prescribed vitor TRT. Then the UFC matched vitor in brazil in which they have much control over the athletic commission there. So why pull him from the fight when its the beast you created?


I've always said UFC is becoming scum. UFC built him up with winnable fights...in BRAZIL so he could TRT to the gills. Knowing full well that in the States he is not allowed to get an exemption. They wanted to create a beast to contend for the title. Now they are all saying how TRT is ridiculous and trying to act like they are the leaders in reforming the system.

UFC is s joke.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

amoosenamedhank said:


> I'm trying to keep my eye on twitter to see how this 'he said he said unfolds'.
> 
> *Did Vitor pull out (don't get cute with that)* or did the UFC replace him?


He doesn't pull out. He finishes and whatever happens is God's Will :thumb02:

I'd like to know the details to the situation as well.


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## JASONJRF (Nov 3, 2009)

John8204 said:


> Guys this is not funny, camera's were able to catch Vitor reaction upon finding out about the TRT banning.


Didnt know batman was on TRT this explains a lot


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Did I ever say that? Are you trying to debate my point or do you just have some problem with me?


I didn't accuse you of saying anything. But some people are certainly implying as much, and it went to my greater point. 

Stop getting so easily wound up. You're occasionally a pompous arse, but I like you. :hug:


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I am knocking him for how obvious it is that it IS a miracle drug and he is probably no where near the athlete, well trained fighter that he is when he is on the stuff.



TRT IS NOT a miracle drug if used in accordance to a healthy dosage which any doctor who deserves to keep his medical license will provide. 

You'll feel some more pep in your step going from 200ng/dl to 600ng/dl but I promise you that is nothing compared to a true abuser level of say 2,000+.

If Vitor was truly being monitored as closely as he said he was... there is no way (at least during camp) that he was elevating himself to an abuser level.

Everyone's using this as the say all evidence when we don't even know if Vitor pulled out of the fight or if the UFC pulled him.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

i liek thoup


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Woodenhead said:


> i liek thoup


i liek thoup too


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## Old school fan (Aug 24, 2011)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> I was under the impression that ZUFFA pulled him from the fight. Am I wrong?
> 
> Edit: yes, I am.


According to Vitor himself, you aren't.



> I never give up the fight at UFC 173 and never said that. … The UFC decided to put another opponent in my place because I didn’t have time to fit the new rules of the NSAC. According to the UFC, I will face the winner of Weidman vs Lyotto within the new regulations of all the athletic commissions.
> 
> I’m sorry that this happened, and I appreciate the strength and understanding of all fans, sponsors, UFC and athletic commissions


http://mmajunkie.com/2014/02/belfor...wal-says-hes-fighting-weidman-machida-winner/


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## sucrets (Jul 8, 2007)

Why don't the idiots ar UFC simply take the fight to different venue?

Why deprive Vitor of a chance at the title just because NSAC decided to ban TRT?

Thats is simply stupid and lazy.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

sucrets said:


> *Why don't the idiots ar UFC simply take the fight to different venue?
> *
> Why deprive Vitor of a chance at the title just because NSAC decided to ban TRT?
> 
> Thats is simply stupid and lazy.


Like where? Japan? Most Athletic Commissions will follow this ruling like Brazil is doing here. Tickets go on sale in a month, they aren't moving the event.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

This could become a round robin. Stylistically, machida is a harder fight for weidman and vitor is a harder fight for machida. While I believe weidman is a harder fight for vitor.. especially off trt since im assuming he will be doing a fair bit of grappling. Its going to be interesting to see how this fight and the next fight unfold.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

amoosenamedhank said:


> Vitor is saying the UFC pulled him... if that's true, I hope find of you realize you were hot on the trigger...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Canadian Psycho said:


> Members of MMAF hot on the trigger and jumping the gun without having all of the facts? Never!


Well Vitor himself admitted he pulled out of the fight so people were not quick to pull on the trigger by any means.



> “The Nevada State Athletic Commission recently altered its policy and no longer will permit testosterone use exemptions, and will not permit a TRT program,” Belfort said in a statement to FOX Sports Live. “As other jurisdictions may follow suit, I am going to drop my TRT program and compete in MMA without it. Given the time constraints involved between now and my proposed next bout in May, *I have determined not to apply for a license to fight in Nevada at this time.”*
> 
> http://www.mmaweekly.com/vitor-belf...trt-ban-chris-weidman-now-faces-lyoto-machida



There is no i said "i quit on trt" not "i quit on the fight" misswording there. 

Lots of backpeddlings by Vitor going on here.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Well Vitor himself admitted he pulled out of the fight so people were not quick to pull on the trigger by any means.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Edit: If I could read...

He seems to be going on record that the UFC pulled him. Seems like a bold move if it isn't true. Maybe the UFC put a lot of pressure on him to not apply?


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## sucrets (Jul 8, 2007)

OU said:


> Like where? Japan? Most Athletic Commissions will follow this ruling like Brazil is doing here. Tickets go on sale in a month, they aren't moving the event.


Anywhere that TRT isn't banned. 

If tickets go on sale in a month, they still have time to change the venue.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Canadian Psycho said:


> This is literally the dumbest thing I've ever read on this site. Congratulations. You've set the bar so very, very low for the rest of us.


I wasn't implying or saying that being on TRT is as bad as being a slave master, or even any thing remotely close to some thing that bad. Reading it back, it does come across that way, but that wasn't my point.

I was just making the point that "it's the systems fault, not the individuals" is a lame excuse for these fighters abusing TRT - "they're doing nothing wrong, they're playing by the rules". Everyone in the game knows that TRT allowance was a complete and utter joke and a glaring loop hole in the system. Taking TRT because it was in the "rules" doesn't make you innocent.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

amoosenamedhank said:


> Edit: If I could read...
> 
> He seems to be going on record that the UFC pulled him. Seems like a bold move if it isn't true. Maybe the UFC put a lot of pressure on him to not apply?


I don't know. Maybe he is trying to safe face. Or maybe the UFC did pull him. But I don't see why he would then say he decided to pull out of the fight if he didn't only to switch it up after people reacted.

I have my opinion/guess but realistically your guess or opinion is as good as mine until the UFC chimes in. but I'm just saying that it wasn't exactly people pulling the trigger too quickly when the man himself admitted to deciding to pull out. Can't exactly blame the posters here..

P.s. really random but whenever I see you post I think of crowley from supernatural calling sammi "moose" lol.

"Edit" I just remembered that Dana white said whether vitor gets a trt exemption or not they are going to have vitor fight on that card. So it reallly does not make sense to pull vitor when this is him basically not getting a trt exemption. And vitor did say he decided to pull out of the fight. So I don't know this whole thing is kind of weird. Either side is kinda going back on what they said if they made the decision.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Danm2501 said:


> TRT might let Belfort train harder, for longer, but it doesn't make you actually better at fighting.


How do you think fighters become better at fighting - by sitting on the sofa and scratching their balls¿ No, it's the training that makes them better. If they can train longer and harder due to TRT, that means more quality training time for fight improvement. Is this that hard to understand¿


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Voiceless said:


> How do you think fighters become better at fighting - by sitting on the sofa and scratching their balls¿ No, it's the training that makes them better. If they can train longer and harder due to TRT, that means more quality training time for fight improvement. Is this that hard to understand¿


Training under TRT will definitely give you better results in fight day, no doubt about it, but it is a common thing to learn new techniques when you aren't even a fit person.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Voiceless said:


> How do you think fighters become better at fighting - by sitting on the sofa and scratching their balls¿ No, it's the training that makes them better. If they can train longer and harder due to TRT, that means more quality training time for fight improvement. Is this that hard to understand¿


Wrong.

I learned how to throw a perfect spinning jumping back kick by scratching my nuts 2 hours a day 6 days a week for 
3 months. I needed 1 day a week to rest my legs from from all the nut scratch training. But I gotta say all the hard training paid off because my technique has gotten 5x better since I started the secret training.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Rarely do i care about a bisping opinion. But he is on twitter saying any idiot can tell vitor failed his test. He said if he was tested and passed he'd share it. Vitor is not talking about his results. Why would he not if he passed?


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

Vitor made a post in instagram. Apologized to everyone. Said he didnt have enough time to let his body acclimate to being off TRT and he looks forward to fighting the winner without being on trt


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> Vitor made a post in instagram. Apologized to everyone. Said he didnt have enough time to let his body acclimate to being off TRT and he looks forward to fighting the winner without being on trt


Yea I posted that earlier in this thread I found an article with him saying that. I'd bring it up for people to see the exact quote but I'm using my phone. Funny though that 3 months isn't enough time. He comes off like a drug addict being completely depended on it.

I got a question.. did vitor have the right to take trt after he signed to fight weidman before getting a trt exemption??

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Yea I posted that earlier in this thread I found an article with him saying that. I'd bring it up for people to see the exact quote but I'm using my phone. Funny though that 3 months isn't enough time. He comes off like a drug addict being completely depended on it.
> 
> I got a question.. did vitor have the right to take trt after he signed to fight weidman before getting a trt exemption??
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Legally, he can take it whenever he wants to. He is prescribed it. The UFC drug tests him all the time. He was last drug tested at the ESPN awards.

My take on it is that its going to take a while for him to get use to it. Then its going to take a while for him to get use to training without it. Chances are his body is going to be feeling pretty funky for the next month. Anytime someone injects something into their body every single day for 2-3 years of their life, theyre going to have some side effects coming off.

This is a direct quote from his IG, not sure if its the same thing you posted or not.

"I want to apologize to all my fans that have been let down by the news of me not competing in the title fight against Chris Weidman. I wanted nothing more than to go and compete for the belt. As you all know, I have been doing a legal treatment approved by every commission I fight under called TRT for a health deficiency that I have. As of yesterday the Nevada commission banned the use of TRT. I am not exempt from the rules. I respect the Commission’s ruling, and have dropped my TRT program as of yesterday. My body wouldn't have had enough time to acclimate and I wouldn't be able to meet the new requirements of the commission swiftly enough to be licensed for the main bout and permit the UFC sufficient time to promote it. I am prepared to fight for the championship belt without my TRT program. I look forward to competing under the new set of regulations. I want to thank all my fans, the UFC, and all the commissions for their unwavering support and I will come back stronger than ever! I'm waiting for the winner."


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> I got a question.. did vitor have the right to take trt after he signed to fight weidman before getting a trt exemption??
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Yea no clue here. Sure he has the right. But did he think he was all of a sudden going to be able to be on TRT for a fight in Vegas? 

I'm sure if he was never tested he would have been perfectly fine with taking it all the way up until he knew he could cycle it out for the fight. That is what irks me. Obviously even if Nevada didn't totally ban it, he would have to be an idiot to think he was going to get an exemption. But he has been taking it anyway. When he said he would fight without it if he had too. Makes no sense.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Voiceless said:


> You can not seperate the fights from the training. The fights are just the culmination of the training. The training makes the fights the way they are. TRT has a huge impact on how fighters can and do train, so consequently TRT has a huge impact on how the fights go down.


alright, thanks... :thumb02:

yes, I'm the first to admit I know next to nothing about the advantages of TRT.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> Legally, he can take it whenever he wants to. He is prescribed it. The UFC drug tests him all the time. He was last drug tested at the ESPN awards.
> 
> My take on it is that its going to take a while for him to get use to it. Then its going to take a while for him to get use to training without it. Chances are his body is going to be feeling pretty funky for the next month. Anytime someone injects something into their body every single day for 2-3 years of their life, theyre going to have some side effects coming off.
> 
> ...


Well he is legally allowed to take it but without getting an exemption he isnt allowed to take it for a fight. And clearly he has been taking TRT for his fight with weidman even without getting exempt. So thats what im confused about. Did he just expect to get an exemption so it wouldnt matter??



jonnyg4508 said:


> Yea no clue here. Sure he has the right. But did he think he was all of a sudden going to be able to be on TRT for a fight in Vegas?
> 
> I'm sure if he was never tested he would have been perfectly fine with taking it all the way up until he knew he could cycle it out for the fight. That is what irks me. Obviously even if Nevada didn't totally ban it, he would have to be an idiot to think he was going to get an exemption. But he has been taking it anyway. When he said he would fight without it if he had too. Makes no sense.


This... that is kinda why im curious. 

He said he would fight if he had to without it. So really there is no difference in his situation between being denied an exemption and trt getting banned. His situation still remains the same yet now he does not feel up to the fight without it.


Quiet frankly its testosterone not oxy contin or something. The guy might feel a bit more tired or whatever but he should have stayed in the fight. He is claiming he cant produce Testosterone without TRT so that isnt going to get any better and the way he feels now is the way he is going to feel always unless he finds a different way to produce that extra testosterone.

But everyone always knew that Vitor is mentally weak. This is probably a bigger blow to his mental state then physical.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Well he is legally allowed to take it but without getting an exemption he isnt allowed to take it for a fight. And clearly he has been taking TRT for his fight with weidman even without getting exempt. So thats what im confused about. Did he just expect to get an exemption so it wouldnt matter??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So he is trying to spin it now like UFC pulled him from the fight. Which maybe they did. But perhaps after he told them he was on TRT. Or perhaps after tests showed he was. Either way gotta love how he deflects blame. Sometimes I think fighters believe the fans are just stupid. Which many are. But nothing he says adds up. 

Now if he gets smashed without it (he probably would have been smashed either way) then it will look real bad.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Training under TRT will definitely give you better results in fight day, no doubt about it, but it is a common thing to learn new techniques when you aren't even a fit person.


That's no contradiction to what I said.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> So he is trying to spin it now like UFC pulled him from the fight. Which maybe they did. But perhaps after he told them he was on TRT. Or perhaps after tests showed he was. Either way gotta love how he deflects blame. Sometimes I think fighters believe the fans are just stupid. Which many are. But nothing he says adds up.
> 
> Now if he gets smashed without it (he probably would have been smashed either way) then it will look real bad.


Well the craziest thing is i have read *3* different interviews/articles where he said HE made the decision to pull out. Each interview was a different interview. 

And then he comes out with a interview where he tries to put the blame on the UFC.

It literally makes no sense what so ever. But i guess we should not be surprised... from when has Vitor Belfort made sense?? The guy has the nuttiest head scratching interviews where at the end you are thinking to yourself


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Here's what I assumed happened.

They passed the rule, tested Belfort, "failed him" for the new rules and pulled him from the fight but didn't suspend him.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

I Made a new thread about this as I didn't realise it was already being discussed:

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/163057-so-did-vitor-fail-his-most-recent-drug-test.html


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

New MW champ.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

osmium said:


> New MW champ.


FFL points for me


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Lol machida isn't becoming the third ever 2 division UFC champ.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Lol machida isn't becoming the third ever 2 division UFC champ.


Don't count the Flash out against the Man of Steel.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

John8204 said:


> Don't count the Flash out against the Man of Steel.


The flash is a can, weidman is smarter bigger ,faster, stronger and more well rounded and can finish fights in multiple ways. Machida will be finished in round 2


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Voiceless said:


> That's no contradiction to what I said.


It really wasn't. It was an add on.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

Danm2501 said:


> Forget the TRT, I'm gutted that Weidman vs Belfort isn't going ahead. Was so excited for that fight. TRT might let Belfort train harder, for longer, but it doesn't make you actually better at fighting. Vitor's just started putting shit together, and has got seriously good. He's looked like a destroyer at 185 recently, the way he's incorporated the Taekwondo techniques with such ease, is so so impressive. Hopefully Weidman will put Machida away and we'll get to see him vs Vitor soon!


This x100!

I cannot believe all the damn fickle fans in this thread. It sickens me, Vitor & Weidman make one heck of a fight compared to Lyoto. Machida has been getting gifted shots, like it or not. He's blown lots of chances when he needed to be clutch (Rampage, Davis).

You know why I love the old guard? Because they come to fight and everyone jumped the gun on this. TRT was just legal, love it or hate it. Vitor didn't do anything wrong rule wise until the recent change.

People act like he wasn't a killer before this TRT... please.

This kind of nonsense is why I rarely post anymore.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Big_Charm said:


> This x100!
> 
> I cannot believe all the damn fickle fans in this thread. It sickens me, Vitor & Weidman make one heck of a fight compared to Lyoto. Machida has been getting gifted shots, like it or not. He's blown lots of chances when he needed to be clutch (Rampage, Davis).
> 
> ...


Well before the TRT came Steroids.... so yea he was a killer before the TRT.... before the steroids??? who knows.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Big_Charm said:


> This x100!
> 
> I cannot believe all the damn fickle fans in this thread. It sickens me, Vitor & Weidman make one heck of a fight compared to Lyoto. Machida has been getting gifted shots, like it or not. He's blown lots of chances when he needed to be clutch (Rampage, Davis).
> 
> ...


They can only hold Belfort down for so long, I think he draws Jacare and finishes him in the 1st again. I'm fine with Machida/Weidman because I think this is the closer fight of the two and Machida/Belfort could be a stadium show in Brazil.

Also Bisping wants another shot at Belfort, and Vitor KOing Bisping again makes me feel warm inside.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Big_Charm said:


> TRT was just legal, love it or hate it. Vitor didn't do anything wrong rule wise until the recent change.


TRT was legal for those who got the *EXEMPTION* from the athletic comission. NSAC pretty clearly stated that they would *NOT* give a TRT exemption for caught steroid abusers. Going on with his TRT abuse is Belfort's own fault. He should have known that he would NOT be able to use it as a licensed fighter in the States, completely regardless of it being banned or not.


----------



## DanTheJu (Mar 3, 2007)

sucrets said:


> Anywhere that TRT isn't banned.
> 
> If tickets go on sale in a month, they still have time to change the venue.


So what you are saying is that the UFC should incur major expenses to allow Vitor to continue to cheat?



Voiceless said:


> TRT was legal for those who got the *EXEMPTION* from the athletic comission. NSAC pretty clearly stated that they would *NOT* give a TRT exemption for caught steroid abusers. Going on with his TRT abuse is Belfort's own fault. He should have known that he would NOT be able to use it as a licensed fighter in the States, completely regardless of it being banned or not.


THIS!!!


----------



## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Belfort wasn't really caught abusing Steroids he was one of the guys whose doctor gave him something illegal without telling him. The doctor did admit he didn't properly disclose what he was putting in Belfort. Kinda sucks that a guy who fought for 20 years and has done everything right is getting this sort of treatment.


----------



## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

John8204 said:


> They can only hold Belfort down for so long, I think he draws Jacare and finishes him in the 1st again. I'm fine with Machida/Weidman because I think this is the closer fight of the two and Machida/Belfort could be a stadium show in Brazil.
> 
> Also Bisping wants another shot at Belfort, and Vitor KOing Bisping again makes me feel warm inside.


Exactly, he's the only deserving guy of a title shot. As much as I like Machida, he hasn't done anything to prove he can beat Belfort/Silva or Weidman.

Dan just got an exemption for TRT for his rematch with Rua, now this happens with Belfort. I wanted to see this matchup for quite some time.

No worries, put Rockhold/Bisping/Jacare in front of him... it'll be a laugh to see him tee off on these top 5 guys.

He better get the shot at Weidman after he finishes Machida.... that's all I'm saying. :thumbsup:


----------



## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Big_Charm said:


> Exactly, he's the only deserving guy of a title shot. As much as I like Machida, he hasn't done anything to prove he can beat Belfort/Silva or Weidman.
> 
> Dan just got an exemption for TRT for his rematch with Rua, now this happens with Belfort. I wanted to see this matchup for quite some time.
> 
> ...


Machida, Jacare and Belfort all deserve title shots Bisping and Rockhold don't. I think Machida is actually going to get better odds than Belfort for facing Weidman.


----------



## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

The old 'my doctor gave me something without me knowing' chestnut.

Sorry but to many fighters have used this excuse for me ever to believe it.


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Killz said:


> The old 'my doctor gave me something without me knowing' chestnut.
> 
> Sorry but to many fighters have used this excuse for me ever to believe it.


*IN CASE OF DIRE EMERGENCY, BREAK THE GLASS AND FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS THOROUGHLY.*



*Look surprised and disappointed and read this note out loud: 

"My Doctor gave me something without me knowing about it. I will sue him for that."*


----------



## MMATycoon (Aug 15, 2011)

The new middleweight champion of the world - Lyoto Machida!


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Lyoto will be champ when Chris has cleaned out the MW division and stepped up to take over at LHW.


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## MMA2k14 (Mar 2, 2014)

Definitely lost excitement for that card now, Machida in the main event is the last thing UFC needs:confused02:

link removed - Killz


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## tap nap or snap (Jan 28, 2009)

1st off im not a big belfort fan so i'm hyped my 2nd fave fighter gets to step in and get a 2nd belt
but 2ndly i won't bash victor for pulling out if he did, when he comes off the trt, his body would've been used to it and his test will be super low. he will need time for his body's natural production to resume, and if it's really as low as to need trt in the 1st place that maybe a while


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## King Daisuke (Mar 25, 2013)

tap nap or snap said:


> he will need time for his body's natural production to resume, and if it's really as low as to need trt in the 1st place that maybe a while


Well considering what Vitor's said all this time, it should really be never. You got to remember that he was only TRT'ing to "make it fair".


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

I really don't see Chris beating Lyoto here. I think Lyoto tools Weidman here. 

Possibly finishes him too.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Weidman KOs Mark Munoz in the second round, looking good.

Machida KOs Mark Munoz in the first round, without getting hit.

Weidman deserves a title shot.
Machida doesnt.


Huh?


----------



## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Weidman KOs Mark Munoz in the second round, looking good.
> 
> Machida KOs Mark Munoz in the first round, without getting hit.
> 
> ...


I don't want to open a can of worms here but a lot of people thought Weidman didn't deserve the shot. I don't remember exactly who because all I remember about Weidman before the Anderson fight is LL claiming Chris would be champion, breh.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

_RIVAL_ said:


> I really don't see Chris beating Lyoto here. I think Lyoto tools Weidman here.
> 
> Possibly finishes him too.


Yeah i think Lyoto is a terrible matchup for Weidman. I dont think he finishes Weidman but i think he gets the decision in a boring fight.

Or i should say

Boring fight for most people but for those who enjoy the chess game will find it fun.


----------



## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

_RIVAL_ said:


> I really don't see Chris beating Lyoto here. I think Lyoto tools Weidman here.
> 
> Possibly finishes him too.


I'll be rooting for Weidman, he grew on me his last few fights but Lyoto has the tools to light him up. Great TDD, and his striking and footwork is absolutely amazing.

War Weidman, but hopefully he doens't get slain.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Weidman KOs Mark Munoz in the second round, looking good.
> 
> Machida KOs Mark Munoz in the first round, without getting hit.
> 
> ...


That was Machida's debut fight at MW and after coming off a loss to Phil Davis and a poor performance split decision win over Dan Henderson.

Also, Weidman beat Munoz (schooled him in fact) at his own game in wrestling during the entire first round and I don't recall him getting hit by Munoz either.


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## MCMAP Wizzard (Feb 5, 2012)

It's hard to imagine a scenario where Machida takes this one. Look what Chris just did to Anderson, arguably the GOAT, twice in a row. He's too smart and athletic; this is not going to end well for Lyoto.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Weidman wins via Machida breaking his wrist on Weidman's elbow.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

MCMAP Wizzard said:


> It's hard to imagine a scenario where Machida takes this one. Look what Chris just did to Anderson, arguably the GOAT, twice in a row. He's too smart and athletic; this is not going to end well for Lyoto.


It's not hard for you. It is impossible, since you considered those two fights between CW and AS really competitive.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> I don't want to open a can of worms here but a lot of people thought Weidman didn't deserve the shot. I don't remember exactly who because all I remember about Weidman before the Anderson fight is LL claiming Chris would be champion, breh.


I didn't. I wanted Weidman to prove himself against a proper contender. I favoured him in a fight with Bisping, but Count was on a solid and was close to a title shot before the Belfort fight. I wanted Weidman to fight him first.

Looking at both records.

Machida looked like a master Vs Mousasi.
KOed Munoz in one round.
*Lost* to Phil Davis
Looked okay Vs Dan Hendseron (a title challenger before the fight)
KOed Bader

Weidman KOed Munoz in two rounds.
Bad split decision Vs Maia.
Submitted Ton Lawlor.
Submitted Jesse Bongfeldt
Decisioned Alessio Sakara.

Before the Munoz fight, excluding the horrid performance between him and Maia, his record was comparable to Hathaway's. 

Machida on the other hand, has KOed Rashad Evans, Ryan Bader, Randy Couture, Thiago Silva, Rich Franklin and Stephan Bonnar, as well as beating Tito Ortiz and Dan Henderson by decision.

Machida is ridiculously more warranting of a title shot than Weidman was. Hands up though, Weidman did the job regardless of that fact.


----------



## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I didn't. I wanted Weidman to prove himself against a proper contender. I favoured him in a fight with Bisping, but Count was on a solid and was close to a title shot before the Belfort fight. I wanted Weidman to fight him first.
> 
> Looking at both records.
> 
> ...


I think it's very important to note that Weidman took the Maia fight on very short notice and had pretty much no camp. He had to worry pretty much about making weight. All things considered, it was impressive that he was able to beat highly ranked contender on such short notice.

That isn't an excuse it's just a fact. 

People that refuse to give any credit to Chris for the Anderson wins(not saying you don't) really crack me up.


----------



## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

I try to forget about Maia vs. Weidman as a whole. Weidman took the fight on very short notice while Maia fought questionably and some said he was sick, though I'm not sure if that was confirmed. Either way, it's not a fair assessment of Weidman's skills.

Weidman has been growing on me. Partially because I have 3 brothers ( 33, 30, 26, and myself being 23) and we all look similar, and people have said he could pass for as our "hidden 5th brother". Good stuff.

I think anyone giving either fighter little chance is funny.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

OU said:


> I think it's very important to note that Weidman took the Maia fight on very short notice and had pretty much no camp. He had to worry pretty much about making weight. All things considered, it was impressive that he was able to beat highly ranked contender on such short notice.
> 
> That isn't an excuse it's just a fact.
> 
> People that refuse to give any credit to Chris for the Anderson wins(not saying you don't) really crack me up.


Maia wasn't exactly a "highly ranked contender" at the time. It wasn't until after the Weidman fight that he dropped down and looked impressive again. He was 4-3, winning every fight with an unimpressive decision, and getting knocked in one of the losses. Also, Weidman is a good striker with solid BJJ, so Maia was never really going to win the match regardless imo. Weidman taking it on late notice somewhat justifies how bad he looked in it, but he really should have walked through it (I'm a Maia fan btw).

I don't give him credit as the best around. The first fight was okay. I thought he was impressive with his movement. He showed TERRIBLE fight IQ in trying to "prove himself" on the feet. It might have worked out, but was so immature for a high level fighter. The KO showed good power and he switched the technique well, but let's not pretend Anderson didn't hand him it gift wrapped.

The second fight, Weidman looked okay. His GnP is highly impressive for me. His TDs are only okay, I haven't been too impressed with them. His striking is solid, and his movement is good.

I don't give him credit as one of the greats, but he's a very good fighter. I still see him as MUCH more beatable than the other champions though. Time will tell, it's early in his career.


----------



## MCMAP Wizzard (Feb 5, 2012)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> It's not hard for you. It is impossible, since you considered those two fights between CW and AS really competitive.


I wouldn't classify them as competitive as Weidman shut down everything Silva had minus a couple leg kicks in their first fight. Outside of that they were both dominating performances and far from competitive.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

MCMAP Wizzard said:


> I wouldn't classify them as competitive as Weidman shut down everything Silva *didn't care to throw* minus a couple leg kicks in their first fight. Outside of that they were both dominating performances and far from competitive.


Fixed for you.


----------



## MCMAP Wizzard (Feb 5, 2012)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Fixed for you.


Yes the Silva supporters must be right; Anderson threw the fight, placed a massive bet on Weidman and lost the bout on purpose. Kool-aid city up in here.


----------



## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

MCMAP Wizzard said:


> Yes the Silva supporters must be right; Anderson threw the fight, placed a massive bet on Weidman and lost the bout on purpose. Kool-aid city up in here.


That's not what he said. He was saying that Anderson wasn't active that he didn't throw punches. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

This is getting rather ridiculous. Weidman was so flukey to take him down both fight. Land great gnp to the point anderson's eyes rolled back. Dropped him both fights. Yea fluke. Anderson has fooled around many yimes and no one has hurt him. Weidman did. Yet its a fluke. 

People need to come to realize that guys dont stay great forever. Its ok to accept a guy losing. Its like older kids bot wanting to accept santa isnt real. Its ok.


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> This is getting rather ridiculous. Weidman was so flukey to take him down both fight. Land great gnp to the point anderson's eyes rolled back. Dropped him both fights. Yea fluke. Anderson has fooled around many yimes and no one has hurt him. Weidman did. Yet its a fluke.
> 
> People need to come to realize that guys dont stay great forever. Its ok to accept a guy losing. Its like older kids bot wanting to accept santa isnt real. Its ok.



I saw Anderson eyes roll back from the good punch Weidman connected in the clinch that ended up knocking him down on their second fight, not during GNP. Although Weidman displayed a more aggressive GNP than Sonnen, he couldn't finish a hurt Anderson who fell rocked underneath him and still got his face bloodied from strikes from below, meaning Anderson recovered while under GNP. Fact. 

Another thing is, when people mention Anderson's MO or say Anderson ALWAYS fight like that, I can't help to think they are new to MMA and didn't care to do a little research through Anderson past fights, specially pre UFC, when he was basically a Muay Thay wrecking machine. But even in UFC, you have his fights against Rich Franklin which were nothing but spectacular display of drive and aggressiveness. 

From a certain point in his career, Anderson grew bored from his competition and started to assume a careless posture taking more and more risks. To state he always rely on psychological tricks to win his fights is just historically inaccurate and can't resist to a shallow research. 

If anybody truly believe Anderson fought the 1st fight against Weidman with the same will he fought Franklin, with all due respect, I have nothing to debate with that person.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

I have no clue what you are trying to say?. Who cares what aggression he fought with. Did weidman fight the same way he did in the first fight, no he checked kicks. Who cares how anderson fought? Bottom line is weidman wasnt scared of standing in front of anderson. No one else has done that without getting ktfo. Weidman stood in front of him both fights without a shred of fear. Without getting lit up. Anderson loves to clown and it works most all the time, so what point are you eeb teying to make? No one said he didnt clown. He did and weidman was a guy good enough to capitolize. Anderson came all business in the 2nd fight and still didnt hurt weidman. Got his kicks checked. 

Failure to give weidman any credit is purely sucking on silvas balls hard. Weidman did what no other fighter has ever done....twice. And called it beforehand. In 2 fights with anderson silva weidman wasnt in trouble once. I love how you just assume anderson was about to just turn it on an ko him. Anderson couldnt bait him. Couldnt use his reach. Couldnt frustrate him. 

If machida is just gonna roll him why dont tou bet on him. He is almost a 2-1 dog.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Anderson got dropped from the clinch after he tried to do exactly what he did in the Franklin fight @Wizard.

@jonny, that was a stupid idea on Weidman's part though.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Anderson got dropped from the clinch after he tried to do exactly what he did in the Franklin fight @Wizard.
> 
> @jonny, that was a stupid idea on Weidman's part though.


Stupid what? To stand? Well it worked both times. The first fight he caught him clowning, kept punching, like he was taught to do. Something no one elae seemed to get. The 2nd fight chris' takedowns were strting to be stuffed since anderson had his hands at his knees ready to defend. So he struck. Weidman makes a good point, if the takedown is there he will get it on most if you are going to leave your chin out or your hands down, then why not punch? Chris is a very good striker. No one is sying he has tr striking of anderson silva. But when you have very good wrestling his already very good hands will be even better. 

Im a big anderson fan and hated to see him go down like he did. But why are people acting like he is some invincable man forever. Ali and roy jones werent the very best until the bitter end. Every dog has his day. Weidman used his many mma skills to bet him, and he hardly took any shots in te process......twice. Ray Longo is a very hood striking coach and weidman has all the tools in the world. Cant believe that the thought of anderson silva being bested is such a crazy idea to some. Chael ******* sonnen dropped him. Doesnt mean chael is a better striker in that moment. It wasnt stupid because it worked....twice. Anderson had no answer for weidman's confidence and all around ability. Weidman didnt fold like okami or whoever else.

Posting from phone which i rarely used to do. My typing gets sloppy.


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I have no clue what you are trying to say?. Who cares what aggression he fought with. Did weidman fight the same way he did in the first fight, no he checked kicks. Who cares how anderson fought? Bottom line is weidman wasnt scared of standing in front of anderson. No one else has done that without getting ktfo. Weidman stood in front of him both fights without a shred of fear. Without getting lit up. Anderson loves to clown and it works most all the time, so what point are you eeb teying to make? No one said he didnt clown. He did and weidman was a guy good enough to capitolize. Anderson came all business in the 2nd fight and still didnt hurt weidman. Got his kicks checked.
> 
> Failure to give weidman any credit is purely sucking on silvas balls hard. Weidman did what no other fighter has ever done....twice. And called it beforehand. In 2 fights with anderson silva weidman wasnt in trouble once. I love how you just assume anderson was about to just turn it on an ko him. Anderson couldnt bait him. Couldnt use his reach. Couldnt frustrate him.
> 
> If machida is just gonna roll him why dont tou bet on him. He is almost a 2-1 dog.



You have no clue, I believe you. 
You are beside the point again. 
You dismiss Anderson mindset completely for that 1st fight and gives 100% credit to Weidman's superiority. Good for you.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> You have no clue, I believe you.
> You are beside the point again.
> You dismiss Anderson mindset completely for that 1st fight and gives 100% credit to Weidman's superiority. Good for you.


No i dont. Anderson got taken down and gnp. Got a deep aub suck in. Got up. Clowned. And weidman jumped at the oppurtunity and aent him down like no one else could do before. Anderson then fights him again. Totally aggressive/no clown and gets taken down. Gets gnp'd. Get dropped. Then breaks his leg without really ever hitting chris much standing. Weidman beat him both ways. 

You refuse to set aside your fanhood like myself and cant give credit to anguy that beat the p4p beat twice. You cant unbiasly talk about a fight. You want anderson's and many other brazilian fighter's balls in and around your mouth. Good for you. What goofy claim will you make when weidman beats machida? Will he have to beat machida twice? How about 3 times?


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> You refuse to set aside your fanhood like myself and cant give credit to anguy that beat the p4p beat twice. You cant unbiasly talk about a fight. You want anderson's and many other brazilian fighter's balls in and around your mouth. Good for you. What goofy claim will you make when weidman beats machida? Will he have to beat machida twice? How about 3 times?



You created all this in your own mind. This forum knows how fair I am and I make a point on giving credit or criticism toward any fighter as required, Brazilian or not. I will not have this craved on my sig just for you, though. Sorry.


----------



## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

I can't believe after all these months that people are still arguing about Anderson/Weidman.

Move on folks, move on.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Stupid what? To stand? Well it worked both times. The first fight he caught him clowning, kept punching, like he was taught to do. Something no one elae seemed to get. The 2nd fight chris' takedowns were strting to be stuffed since anderson had his hands at his knees ready to defend. So he struck. Weidman makes a good point, if the takedown is there he will get it on most if you are going to leave your chin out or your hands down, then why not punch? Chris is a very good striker. No one is sying he has tr striking of anderson silva. But when you have very good wrestling his already very good hands will be even better.
> 
> Im a big anderson fan and hated to see him go down like he did. But why are people acting like he is some invincable man forever. Ali and roy jones werent the very best until the bitter end. Every dog has his day. Weidman used his many mma skills to bet him, and he hardly took any shots in te process......twice. Ray Longo is a very hood striking coach and weidman has all the tools in the world. Cant believe that the thought of anderson silva being bested is such a crazy idea to some. Chael ******* sonnen dropped him. Doesnt mean chael is a better striker in that moment. It wasnt stupid because it worked....twice. Anderson had no answer for weidman's confidence and all around ability. Weidman didnt fold like okami or whoever else.
> 
> Posting from phone which i rarely used to do. My typing gets sloppy.



It can work all he wants. Being a wrestler and submission fighter primarily, fighting against a guy who is weak to take downs......and deciding to stand up with him....fighting against the greatest striker of all time.

Shit's idiotic.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> It can work all he wants. Being a wrestler and submission fighter primarily, fighting against a guy who is weak to take downs......and deciding to stand up with him....fighting against the greatest striker of all time.
> 
> Shit's idiotic.


Cain was a wrestler and beat JDS up on the feet since JDS had to think about the TD.

DC KO'd Bigfoot when he is new to MMA. He is a wrestler.

Rashad KO'd CHuck when he was a wrestler and I don't remember trying to take it down.

Werdum is a sub guy traditionally yet battered Roy on the feet.

I'm not saying Weidman going into that first fight thinking to out-strike him is the smartest plan. But he didn't do that. He took him down. Got Anderson frustrated. Then KO'd him. The 2nd fight Anderson started stuffing TDs because he kept his hands low. So Weidman was going to strike.

Weidman is a very good striker. Lesser strikers KO or beat elite strikers all the time in MMA. Because it is MMA. There is a threat of a TD.

No one is saying Weidman can outstrike Anderson in a boxing match. Or a MT fight. But in an MMA fight he did twice. Weidman is still being very understated with his striking. He is very good.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Cain was a wrestler and beat JDS up on the feet since JDS had to think about the TD.
> 
> DC KO'd Bigfoot when he is new to MMA. He is a wrestler.
> 
> ...


Striking to take Anderson down doesn't work. Rushing the TD does, see Sonnen or Hendo.

Cain strikes to grapple. In the first fight he didn't do this and it got him KOed. He was too busy thinking about shooting.

DC is considered to have some of the best boxing around? Bigfoot is also a BJJ guy.

Chuck is also a wrestler. Also it finished early into the second round.

Werdum doesn't have the wrestling to take Roy down easily. Maia needs to learn how to strike to set up TDs too.




The difference with those are, Anderson has open TDD which has been shown a fair few times (although more impressive in later times). If Weidman rushed in for it, like Sonnen did, he could have subbed or GnP'd him. Instead, he took the bait and wanted to "prove himself", Anderson's plan all along. Win, lose or draw, on paper that was a horrendous decision and showed a lot of immaturity.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Striking to take Anderson down doesn't work. Rushing the TD does, see Sonnen or Hendo.
> 
> Cain strikes to grapple. In the first fight he didn't do this and it got him KOed. He was too busy thinking about shooting.
> 
> ...


Or maybe Weidman simply was not scared of Anderson's striking and knew he could trade with him? He went for the TD, didn't get it, and very well could have said "okay, no issue, I'll beat him up on the feet for a while until the TD opens up again". 

It's not a bad decision at all if he knows he can take Anderson standing, is it? I mean he did get in Anderson's face and KO him. I saw no fear or worry in either of their fights, standing or otherwise. He seemed extremely confident in his striking and he beat Anderson striking both times (was in 0 danger both fights and dropped Anderson both fights).


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

M.C said:


> Or maybe Weidman simply was not scared of Anderson's striking and knew he could trade with him? He went for the TD, didn't get it, and very well could have said "okay, no issue, I'll beat him up on the feet for a while until the TD opens up again".
> 
> It's not a bad decision at all if he knows he can take Anderson standing, is it? I mean he did get in Anderson's face and KO him. I saw no fear or worry in either of their fights, standing or otherwise. He seemed extremely confident in his striking and he beat Anderson striking both times (was in 0 danger both fights and dropped Anderson both fights).


You think Vitor Belfort or Dan Henderson didn't KNOW they could beat Anderson on the feet?


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

M.C said:


> Or maybe Weidman simply was not scared of Anderson's striking and knew he could trade with him? He went for the TD, didn't get it, and very well could have said "okay, no issue, I'll beat him up on the feet for a while until the TD opens up again".
> 
> It's not a bad decision at all if he knows he can take Anderson standing, is it? I mean he did get in Anderson's face and KO him. I saw no fear or worry in either of their fights, standing or otherwise. He seemed extremely confident in his striking and he beat Anderson striking both times (was in 0 danger both fights and dropped Anderson both fights).


Agree with this. Confidence was one of the big reasons he was able to win twice. Being totally afraid to strike since Silva is supposed to be the best striker out there, would have ruined that. 

I like how Clyde says well DC is said to have some of the best boxing around. Yea he is a solid striker. So is Weidman. Why doesn't Weidman have some of the best boxing around? It is the same situation. Weidman has very god stand up skills. Why do people not want to believe that?

Weidman dropped him in both fights. Maybe he is just that good. Anderson clowned vs Maia, Leites, Forrest, Bonnar, Okami and none of those guys could even hit him hard let alone drop him.. 

Weidman is a tank that has a wide variety of skills. He isn't some grappler who got lucky.

Also Anderson is 38 years old. Why do people expect him to be the same guy now as he was then. Yea he punted Vitor in the face. Yea he has had great KOs. That was then. Every fighter meets there match. Each one has his day. There comes a time when guys overtake fighters. Happened to pretty much all the greats in boxing. Happened to pretty much every MMA fighter. Fighters get old. Opponents get better. Weidman was confident everywhere. To just rush in like Sonnen and have that be the gameplan is a slap in the face to Weidman's skillset. Was he not supposed to stand at all? Just try for TD over and over and over again?


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> You think Vitor Belfort or Dan Henderson didn't KNOW they could beat Anderson on the feet?


So because others couldn't land that shot on Silva, nobody should feel confident that they can or feel good on the feet with him?

Anderson Silva is a man, a human being, a guy with a chin that if you tag it, his vision goes dark and it's nighty night. Weidman obviously felt completely comfortable and confident that he could strike with Silva, and in two fights he did exactly that, successfully. 

Weidman isn't a wrestler, he's a mixed martial artist. He strikes, he wrestles, he does BJJ, and he's very solid at all of them. He doesn't have any fear of anybody anywhere from what I've seen, he just goes in a fights. In fact that is something that is quite interesting about him, when his overall gameplan starts to fade some (taking Anderson down), he adapts and adjusts to his striking game, and instead of folding or not knowing what to do, he performs and succeeds.

I'm really looking forward to him vs Machida, if he can get passed Machida (one tough ass fight), I don't see him losing his title for a long time.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

yea, I see Machida as the best fighter out of any challengers at 185 right now. I like Jacare and think that could be a decent fight, but I don't think he has enough in any one area. Vitor on TRT in Brazil is pretty explosive. But that won't be happening. I think Weidman has his way with Vitor. Machida is defiantly the toughest style for Weidman. A tough style for anyone. With that I am not counting on an exciting fight if Machida wins. I am used to watching him play safe vs. top guys. It will be aggressive vs. keep away. He will try to lull Weidman to sleep, but Weidman is pretty good at keeping focus. If Weidman doesn't just go out and land TDs then it could be one of those Machida's keep away pts vs. Weidman's aggressive come forward points. Could be a controversial dec like Phil or Rampage fight.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Two things

1. It's time to put the Anderson Silva issue to rest and move on.

2. Lyoto Machida is by far the biggest threat to Chris Weidman, I think this fight is dead even. Machida is so fast right now he reminds me of Dominic Cruz, he could very easily win the title and hold it for a while. On the other hand Chris Weidman is fantastic and he could easily move up and fight at 205 and hopefully if he does defeat MAchida, Belfort, and Jacare we'll get a superfight between him and the LHW champion.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

M.C said:


> So because others couldn't land that shot on Silva, nobody should feel confident that they can or feel good on the feet with him?
> 
> Anderson Silva is a man, a human being, a guy with a chin that if you tag it, his vision goes dark and it's nighty night. Weidman obviously felt completely comfortable and confident that he could strike with Silva, and in two fights he did exactly that, successfully.
> 
> ...


You can feel confident on the feet, but deliberately standing against the greatest striker, when men in the EXACT same position have fell trying to do the same thing IS stupid. He got the results, and looked good in striking doing so. But it was a VERY unintelligent move at the end of the day.


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## MCMAP Wizzard (Feb 5, 2012)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> You can feel confident on the feet, but deliberately standing against the greatest striker, when men in the EXACT same position have fell trying to do the same thing IS stupid. He got the results, and looked good in striking doing so. But it was a VERY unintelligent move at the end of the day.


Perhaps Weidman knew something that the other guys didn't, seems that way at least...

Will be interesting to see if folk try to stand with Weidman any more, I know I wouldn't want to risk taking a vicious knee spike every time I threw a leg kick.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> You can feel confident on the feet, but deliberately standing against the greatest striker, when men in the EXACT same position have fell trying to do the same thing IS stupid. He got the results, and looked good in striking doing so. But it was a VERY unintelligent move at the end of the day.


I don't understand why it is unintelligent to do something you feel you know you can do? Especially when you succeed at it, twice. 

Just because other fighters failed to do it, doesn't mean that everybody will. You don't go into a fight thinking you have only one way to win, that only blocks off your mental strength and stifles your ability to adapt/adjust and win the fight. That would be unintelligent.

What Chris did was adjust to the fight, stood with Anderson, felt he was comfortable and could take it to him standing and then did just that. Instead of going for more failed takedowns, losing energy/confidence each time, he decided to stand with him instead and change the fight up, and it worked perfectly both times.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Basically, what you guys are saying, is that itd have been perfectly clever of Anderson to roll around in a BJJ fight with Maia.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Basically, what you guys are saying, is that itd have been perfectly clever of Anderson to roll around in a BJJ fight with Maia.


It would be stupid if he knew he didn't have the ability to do that, if he knew he couldn't stay safe on the ground with Maia but did it anyways. But if he knew he could do it? If he knew his skill in grappling was capable enough to beat Maia? It would be just as good as any other strategy.

Fedor stat in Nogs guard almost the whole fight back when nobody in their right mind would want to be in it for 10 seconds, much less the whole fight. He dominated Nog from start to finish in his guard, everyone was shocked and amazed. Fedor had no fear, he knew exactly what he was capable of doing and was comfortable, confident, and took it to Nog where he was the strongest.

There's nothing stupid about fighting where you are comfortable, regardless if the guy you are fighting is also comfortable in the same area.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Every fighter KNOWS they can win. JDS KNEW he could beat Cain Velasquez in the last two fights.

Playing into your opponents strengths when their weaknesses are your strengths IS stupid.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Every fighter KNOWS they can win. JDS KNEW he could beat Cain Velasquez in the last two fights.
> 
> Playing into your opponents strengths when their weaknesses are your strengths IS stupid.


So he was supposed to just relentlessly go for takedowns over and over like he is Fitch? You act like weidman came in with a boxing stance and wanted to throw hands from the start. He used his wrestle both fights. Used clinch. He didnt go in there an look yo trade punches and ko him. It was there, he took it. The 2nd fight he had to strike as his takedowns were getting stuffed. He dropped silva from the clinch. Weidman has big power. If he had te mentality you want him to have he probably would have lost both of those fights.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> So he was supposed to just relentlessly go for takedowns over and over like he is Fitch? You act like weidman came in with a boxing stance and wanted to throw hands from the start. He used his wrestle both fights. Used clinch. He didnt go in there an look yo trade punches and ko him. It was there, he took it. The 2nd fight he had to strike as his takedowns were getting stuffed. He dropped silva from the clinch. Weidman has big power. If he had te mentality you want him to have he probably would have lost both of those fights.


Used the clinch? That was Anderson.

But I agree with you. Weidman wanted to use his stand up game, shoot in, land GnP or search for submissions. He actually looked great when he got Anderson down.

Then what? Anderson starts taunting him...Weidman loses his cool and wants to "prove" himself. Had he done so in a dominating way (He kind of only landed two big on the feet strikes, and we didnt really get to see a chess match or intelligence REALLY be effective in either fight). Getting into that mind state because you are being taunted is immature. He should have stuck to his gameplan.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

My body nor heart is ready for this.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Bonnar could very well have shut Anderson lights out. I saw that happening right there and also his cornermen. Anderson played the same silly game against Weidman. Weidman courageously exploited the openings gifted by the former champion and was very happy to connect and deservedly become the new champion. That kind of loss was bound to happen. That was considered *one of the most embarrassing* losses in MMA history and the pressure over Anderson was tremendous following it.
If Anderson went to a war against Weidman Jones/Gus like and got put out of his senses or even lost a UD, *that wouldn't be considered embarrassing*. How that is so difficult to understand for some? We are used to watch so many fights, so many battles and when it is convenient, people just ignore one is fighting like a complete idiot.

Second fight Weidman was officially declared the winner by TKO *due to injury*. It didn't go two rounds because Anderson broke his leg. Weidman was winning, but that is all to be said for 1,5 round disputed out of a 5 rounder fight.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

So the fact weidman was winning every second of both fights doesnt matter to you. You assume anderson would come back and win. 

Thats quite the speculation there. Haha


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

*Read twice before posting.*



jonnyg4508 said:


> So the fact weidman was winning every second of both fights *doesnt matter to you*. *You assume* anderson would come back and win.
> 
> Thats *quite the speculation* there. Haha


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 

Wow, that was priceless. *You just assumed I assumed something...*and I am the one speculating. 

Even being rude most of the time, your posts used to make more sense in the past. Now all is gone and you just throw troll darts that connects to nothing, making a fool of yourself.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Every fighter KNOWS they can win. JDS KNEW he could beat Cain Velasquez in the last two fights.
> 
> Playing into your opponents strengths when their weaknesses are your strengths IS stupid.


If I'm competing with a guy, and I have his number and I'm besting him in an area, I'm not going to just stop because that area that I feel comfortable beating him in just so happens to be where he's the strongest at. I'm going to keep going down that path until it stops working for me.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
> 
> Wow, that was priceless. *You just assumed I assumed something...*and I am the one speculating.
> 
> Even being rude most of the time, your posts used to make more sense in the past. Now all is gone and you just throw troll darts that connects to nothing, making a fool of yourself.


So let me understand you here. When silva clowns and wins he is magic and the best ever. And when he clowns and loses it was a fluke and didnt really count. 

Got ya.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

M.C said:


> If I'm competing with a guy, and I have his number and I'm besting him in an area, I'm not going to just stop because that area that I feel comfortable beating him in just so happens to be where he's the strongest at. I'm going to keep going down that path until it stops working for me.
> 
> We'll just have to agree to disagree.


Was Weidman really winning the stand up though? Not much happened in their first fight on the feet, in the first round anyways, and Anderson has time and time again hurt someone out of nowhere. Weidman didn't keep his cool, and it showed a lack in fighter IQ and temperament.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> So let me understand you here. When silva clowns and wins he is magic and the best ever. And when he clowns and loses it was a fluke and didnt really count.
> 
> Got ya.


Here you go fishing in a dead lake again.

*Hands down is not automatically the same thing as clowning.* Anderson clowned Maia, Bonnar and Weidman. He didn't clown Forrest or Vitor and he had his hands down on both fights, which is a proper technique when you are focused in your distance and preparing to counter - *focused in winning*. If you believe all fall in clowning category, you are way off. Sad.

He wasn't clocked in an exchange like Rampage did to Wand or Shogun did to Tehuna. Weidman was the only one fighting that day. You don't understand Anderson Silva at all, so you can't tell the difference that lies in your face. 

That fight was so grotesquely apart from anything else Anderson did, he was even accused by his own fans of throwing the fight for money, what is far more shameful than losing any fight, if you ask me. 

Go back to do what you do best: Being an *"unbiased"* Diaz brothers fan.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Here you go fishing in a dead lake again.
> 
> *Hands down is not automatically the same thing as clowning.* Anderson clowned Maia, Bonnar and Weidman. He didn't clown Forrest or Vitor and he had his hands down on both fights, which is a proper technique when you are focused in your distance and preparing to counter - *focused in winning*. If you believe all fall in clowning category, you are way off. Sad.
> 
> ...


please go on and tell us all about your best friend Anderson Silva. how long have you known him?

this is fun.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

ok guys, give it a rest now please.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

So after Machida defeats Weidman do you think we will see Silva return at 185 or will he perhaps try his luck at 205?


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

420atalon said:


> So after Machida defeats Weidman do you think we will see Silva return at 185 or will he perhaps try his luck at 205?


I think Jacare is a bigger threat then Machida.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

OU said:


> I think Jacare is a bigger threat then Machida.


I don't. I think Weidman beats both. But with Machida he has to defend quick strikes. Jacare A. Will be hard to get Weidman down. B. I know he was hurt but if Carmont can survive on the ground for that long, Weidman probably won't get sub'd. Jacare is a position over submission sort of guy. C. Standing he is a power puncher, less technical than Weidman. Less defense. Machida can possibly play his keep away or really land something sneaky. Jacare is just a wrecking ball that comes at you, I don't think that matches up well with Weidman. 

Weidman should beat both though. Machida is tricky for anyone though and I hope I don't have to watch him run away for 5 rounds.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I don't. I think Weidman beats both. But with Machida he has to defend quick strikes. Jacare A. Will be hard to get Weidman down. B. I know he was hurt but if Carmont can survive on the ground for that long, Weidman probably won't get sub'd. Jacare is a position over submission sort of guy. C. Standing he is a power puncher, less technical than Weidman. Less defense. Machida can possibly play his keep away or really land something sneaky. Jacare is just a wrecking ball that comes at you, I don't think that matches up well with Weidman.
> 
> Weidman should beat both though. Machida is tricky for anyone though and I hope I don't have to watch him run away for 5 rounds.


I think Weidman beats both as well. However Jacare is more athletic and stronger then Machida. He also has a far better ground game then Machida. Obviously Machida is the better striker but I think Jacare is good enough on the feet to be competitive vs Weidman. I think Jacare would be harder to game plan for and a more difficult style matchup for Weidman then Machida. I think with Machida he would have less things he would need to focus on. With Machida he would only need to worry about cutting off the cage and controlling distance and timing Machida's movement.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

^Easier said than done.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> ^Easier said than done.


lol yes it is. I didn't mean to imply that it was easy. Just that he less to worry about compared to Jacare.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

OU said:


> lol yes it is. I didn't mean to imply that it was easy. Just that he less to worry about compared to Jacare.


With Machida, you have to worry about coming in and not being able to take the fight down. Unless Weidman catches Machida, or wins a boring decision where Machida was only in control, I dont see him winning.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

OU said:


> I think Weidman beats both as well. However Jacare is more athletic and stronger then Machida. He also has a far better ground game then Machida. Obviously Machida is the better striker but I think Jacare is good enough on the feet to be competitive vs Weidman. I think Jacare would be harder to game plan for and a more difficult style matchup for Weidman then Machida. I think with Machida he would have less things he would need to focus on. With Machida he would only need to worry about cutting off the cage and controlling distance and timing Machida's movement.


I don't think Jacare would fair well on the feet. I don't see any evidence that he is a good striker. He has gotten better and it decent. But he is stiff in his movements and pretty much only has a big overhand right. Who is the best striker he has fought since ROckhold? Brunson or Carmont? Either way no one good. 

Yea Jacare has good strength and athleticism. But not Weidman's level. Not going to beat Weidman with pure power. And I doubt Jacare will pull off a sub. Machida is a very competent black belt, obviously not Jacare level, but more than enough to avoid being sub'd. 

Machida holds a couple ways of possibly winning. Staying away and getting the nod or finding that awkward devastating punch or kick since no one can really replicate his style. And who knows, we have only seen Machida 2 fights at 185, maybe he is much better there than he was at 205 where he was a champion. We know what Jacare is. A guy that can takedown a lot of guys and use his BJJ for control. If he can't take them down then has enough striking for a matchup like Okami. I think Machida has a much trickier stylistic matchup for Weidman. Machida is a tricky guy for anyone at 185 or 205.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

OU said:


> I think Weidman beats both as well. However Jacare is more athletic and stronger then Machida. He also has a far better ground game then Machida. Obviously Machida is the better striker but I think Jacare is good enough on the feet to be competitive vs Weidman. I think Jacare would be harder to game plan for and a more difficult style matchup for Weidman then Machida. I think with Machida he would have less things he would need to focus on. With Machida he would only need to worry about cutting off the cage and controlling distance and timing Machida's movement.


Oh is that all, just control the distance and cut off the cage from one of the most elusive fighters in MMA... Sounds like a piece of cake.

If you think Jacare's striking is competitive with Weidman then Machida will have a significant striking advantage. He is also very elusive and has good takedown defense. Hence why Machida is probably going to beat Weidman.

Jacare would get out struck and out wrestled imo. I see him having trouble winning that fight no matter where it takes place.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

420atalon said:


> *Oh is that all, just control the distance and cut off the cage from one of the most elusive fighters in MMA... Sounds like a piece of cake.*
> 
> If you think Jacare's striking is competitive with Weidman then Machida will have a significant striking advantage. He is also very elusive and has good takedown defense. Hence why Machida is probably going to beat Weidman.
> 
> Jacare would get out struck and out wrestled imo. I see him having trouble winning that fight no matter where it takes place.


Like I mentioned before, I did not mean to imply it was an easy task by any stretch. That was not my intention. Machida is a master of what he does. 

I think you are underrating Jacare's ground game as a whole. The wrestling edge alone doesn't make him(Chris) the better grappler. Chris isn't a slouch with his BJJ but Jacare is world class.
IMO the gap between Jacare's ground game and Machida's ground game is as large as the gap between Machida's striking and Jacare's striking.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

OU said:


> Like I mentioned before, I did not mean to imply it was an easy task by any stretch. That was not my intention. Machida is a master of what he does.
> 
> I think you are underrating Jacare's ground game as a whole. The wrestling edge alone doesn't make him(Chris) the better grappler. Chris isn't a slouch with his BJJ but Jacare is world class.
> IMO the gap between Jacare's ground game and Machida's ground game is as large as the gap between Machida's striking and Jacare's striking.


The wrestling edge doesn't make him a better grappler? In MMA I think it does. This isn't a BJJ competition. Like SHields vs. Maia, Maia is world class, yet Shields is still a good BJJ fighter and has the wrestling advantage. Being on top still wins rounds over being in full guard. 

I'm sorry to break the news, but BJJ doesn't win MMA fights anymore. Subs are hard to find. You aren't given unlimited time to work like in a BJJ fight. Stand ups. 5 min rounds. Have to find a way to get it there. I don't think you can just add an subtract like math. It is a fight. And the bottom line really is BJJ/Subs don't happen. Weidman is very well-versed on the mat as well. Very good striker. Probably stronger/bigger. Longer. If the fight plays out on the ground I see Weidman being on top most all the time. Do you see Jacare pulling off something from his back??? I don't. I guess if you think Jacare is really this 1 punch KO artist with real good striking then sure. 

Not saying Weidman destroys him. COuld be a fun fight. I just think Machida has a better chance of actually winning.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> *The wrestling edge doesn't make him a better grappler? In MMA I think it does. * This isn't a BJJ competition. Like SHields vs. Maia, Maia is world class, yet Shields is still a good BJJ fighter and has the wrestling advantage. Being on top still wins rounds over being in full guard.
> 
> I'm sorry to break the news, but BJJ doesn't win MMA fights anymore. Subs are hard to find. You aren't given unlimited time to work like in a BJJ fight. Stand ups. 5 min rounds. Have to find a way to get it there. I don't think you can just add an subtract like math. It is a fight. And the bottom line really is BJJ/Subs don't happen. Weidman is very well-versed on the mat as well. Very good striker. Probably stronger/bigger. Longer. If the fight plays out on the ground I see Weidman being on top most all the time. Do you see Jacare pulling off something from his back??? I don't. I guess if you think Jacare is really this 1 punch KO artist with real good striking then sure.
> 
> Not saying Weidman destroys him. COuld be a fun fight. I just think Machida has a better chance of actually winning.


IMO Jacare has better takedowns and his strength gives him better TD defense then Maia will ever possess. That is where Jacare's athletic ability comes into play. He is far more athletic then Maia and far more capable of taking on wrestlers IMO. I think you are underestimating that aspect of Jacare's game. 
You act like Maia isn't able to use his BJJ effectively vs wrestlers. Fitch and Story are both good wrestlers. Also he was competitive vs Jake. Let's not forget how he completely schooled Chael in grappling.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

OU said:


> IMO Jacare has better takedowns and his strength gives him better TD defense then Maia will ever possess. That is where Jacare's athletic ability comes into play. He is far more athletic then Maia and far more capable of taking on wrestlers IMO. I think you are underestimating that aspect of Jacare's game.
> You act like Maia isn't able to use his BJJ effectively vs wrestlers. Fitch and Story are both good wrestlers. Also he was competitive vs Jake. Let's not forget how he completely schooled Chael in grappling.


Well Maia controlled Fitch who was always known as a strong wrestler and a guy you have high praise for. 

I'm not following. On one hand Maia can't deal with wrestlers. On the other hand you say he did deal with wrestlers well. I'm not following your point.

If Jacare is better at stopping TDs, then that doesn't help him get the fight to the ground. And I happen to think Weidman is a stronger striker for sure. Longer reach. Better defense. I think you rate Jacare's striking higher than I do. I think that is where we disagree. I don't necessarily think Weidman wants to try and take him down unless he has too. I just think if it does go to the ground, Weidman will most likely be on top.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Well Maia controlled Fitch who was always known as a strong wrestler and a guy you have high praise for.
> 
> *I'm not following. On one hand Maia can't deal with wrestlers. On the other hand you say he did deal with wrestlers well. I'm not following your point.
> *
> If Jacare is better at stopping TDs, then that doesn't help him get the fight to the ground. And I happen to think Weidman is a stronger striker for sure. Longer reach. Better defense. I think you rate Jacare's striking higher than I do. I think that is where we disagree. I don't necessarily think Weidman wants to try and take him down unless he has too. I just think if it does go to the ground, Weidman will most likely be on top.


You are the one that brought up Maia and mentioned the Shields fight. You mentioned that BJJ doesn't win in MMA anymore. I never said Maia wasn't good vs wrestlers I just said Jacares is better suited then Maia to take on wrestlers because of his athletic ability and strength. 

I didn't just mention Jacare's take down defense, I also mentioned that Jacare has better takedowns before that(better then Maia).

I'm not following your point that BJJ doesn't work in MMA and you're example of Maia vs Shields implies that Maia isn't effective vs wrestlers so all I did was bring up other examples of Maia doing very well vs wrestlers.


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