# Shogun Vs Bones - who the F do ya got?



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

its going to be a tough tough fight but i have shogun winning for a few reasons.

1.he has better preparation with jones just fighting just then and it being so soon.
2. shoguns bjj will make him immediately get back from jones inevitable takedowns.
3.shogun is a better fighter, his muay thai is devastating.
4. he is more experienced and he figured out the machida puzzle first.

that said jones has better wrestling, probably more stronger and i have yet to see him tired yet and he is unbeaten.

it will be an awesome fight and can someone pleas post a 128 poster if possible?

limba your sig may just come true this soon!


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

my heart says bones but my brain says shogun.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Im going Bones, i love the guys style to much, he never showed me a limit to his potential and im not going to limit him now, JJ by TKO 2nd round on Shogun

And will be the new LHW Champ


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Jones, shogun has been off for almost a year and jones is hungry.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Machida Karate said:


> Im going Bones, i love the guys style to much, he never showed me a limit to his potential and im not going to limit him now, JJ by TKO 2nd round on Shogun
> 
> And will be the new LHW Champ


who would win machida or jones?


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## SmokeyEye (Feb 6, 2011)

marcthegame said:


> who would win machida or jones?


i say machida, but jons beats shogun, styles make fights, and when shogun will fight jon, he will be destroyed.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Shogun has bad wrestling he will probably get ragdolled to the ground and dominated. The only ways I see him winning are by either a fast KO or heel hook. The way he just manhandled Bader I think he could probably just throw even Rampage to the ground whenever he wants.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

SmokeyEye said:


> i say machida, but jons beats shogun, styles make fights, and when shogun will fight jon, he will be destroyed.


i'm saying jones just because shogun has been off for so long. But if this fights happens in 3 months rather than 1.2 months it will be different. Reason being:

striking-shogun
wrestling- jones
ground-shogun experience

shogun has enough to win just i just feel ring rust will make him lose.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

Bones is the change in guard. I think he will blow through Shogun. No disrespect to Shogun, I have no problem with him, but I think the Bones is the superior athlete and with all other things equal, that will be the deciding factor.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

3 category break downs aren't nuanced enough.

Yeah, maybe Rua has more experience on the ground, but he is always going to be on the bottom, against a guy who is much larger than him and can throw fight ending elbows. Jones ain't no slouch in terms of his BJJ either. He has shown great top control. Even if Rua manages to standup, he will probably still have Jones attached to him and get taken down repeatedly. 

I dunno, I haven't seen very much of Rua's bottom game, just a couple heel hooks and the like, but heel hooks are SOOO 2001. I'm not convinced that being on the ground will be to his advantage or even neutral.

The stand up is where Jones is going to be challenged the most. The only comparable person to Rua who Jones has faced with quality Muay Thai is Vera, and Vera doesn't count because he's Vera.

I find it hard to breakdown Jones striking because it's so unique. The main thing that is a constant however is is range.

If Rua wants to cause damage he's going to have to move inside, and I'm pretty sure if he does that, he's going to get taken down. 

Legs kicks might work, but Jones will be looking to catch them. It's a risk when one take down can lose a whole round or end the fight.

So yeah, from the outset I say Jones has the stylistic edge due to fact that he can dictate where the fight goes. 

Shogun's best chance is to mix his strikes up, leg kick when certain, move, stay away from the TD, and go for a power counter if the oppurtunity is there.


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## monkey024 (Apr 6, 2010)

Maricio hopefully wins.

People are giving him to much hype and the cocky attitude makes him annoying to watch.

I find it funny how everyone was all "OHHHHHHHHH," When Bones just jumped over Bader....what was so special?


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Jones has such a massive reach advantage he could just jab the ever loving heck out of Rua.

You also have to question what shape and condition Rua will be in when he gets off this lay off.

Jones is so big and with his wrestling it's like he's challenging guys 30/40lbs lighter than him. He took a guy in Ryan Bader and he didn't just beat him with wrestling he manhandled him.

Rua's best chance is to sub him or to test his chin either way I really don't like his chances.


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## dvonfunk (Oct 31, 2007)

Always bet against the cage rust. Bones Jones wins. He's a special athlete. Bad match-up for Shogun. Jones is the future.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Shogun would take him out


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## belfortfan (Sep 9, 2010)

jones is too much of an athletic freak of nature who has quickly developing skills. i don't see anyone below heavyweight beating him. maybe phil davis could give him a decent challenge at least.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

monkey024 said:


> Maricio hopefully wins.
> 
> People are giving him to much hype and the cocky attitude makes him annoying to watch.
> 
> I find it funny how everyone was all "OHHHHHHHHH," When Bones just jumped over Bader....what was so special?


Dont be jealous son, JBJ is going to be champ if u like watching his flashy ass or not lol.

I see Jones completely controlling Shogun like Machida did on there rematch but i see Jones ether holding him down, or just getting him right back down to the ground and pounding Shoguns ass out...

I think Forrest, Coleman, and Machida the second fight before the KO had the right gameplans and JBJ is a better wrestler then all those guys, this is crazy that someone this young can really do the shit hes been doing....

The Kid has no limits so good luck Shogun lol


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## kay_o_ken (Jan 26, 2009)

i really dont know who to pick for this fight but all i know is its gonna be so ******* sick and i cant wait for it. im routin for shogun but i think bones might take it


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

When this fight first pops into my mind, I go to Shogun. Not by a large margin, but just cause of experience and we all know what kind of beast Shogun is.

However, the moment I saw Shogun step into the cage next to Jones, I was like HOLY HELL.

Did you guys see that? Shogun had shoes on for crying out loud and Jones towered over him.

It's going to take a hell of a good fight from Shogun to put Jones down.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

M.C said:


> When this fight first pops into my mind, I go to Shogun. Not by a large margin, but just cause of experience and we all know what kind of beast Shogun is.
> 
> However, the moment I saw Shogun step into the cage next to Jones, I was like HOLY HELL.
> 
> ...


It's a Matt Hughes vs GSP sort of thing. The physical difference will be the difference.


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## anderton46 (Apr 23, 2010)

We havn't seen him against a truly elite striker, so on his feet I see JBJ being in real trouble, but his ground game could more than make up for it, he looks real solid on the ground. But that layoff may well be the difference.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

you guys, have you not learned that power and size does not mean everything? fedor and brock have proven that quite a few times, shogun is a lethal striker and his bjj is very very good, he got up from machida nearly straight away.


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## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

This is going to be a 50/50 split.

Shogun is as good as they get, but by the looks of it, so is Jones.


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## CutterKick (Jan 16, 2011)

Shogun. He'll put on a clinic standing up, Bones is can punch but, sticking someone on their feet with Shogun is a bad idea. Also, Shogun has a good guard game ... something that is far and few between at Jackson's (besides Condit).


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

UFC_OWNS said:


> you guys, have you not learned that power and size does not mean everything? fedor and brock have proven that quite a few times, shogun is a lethal striker and his bjj is very very good, he got up from machida nearly straight away.


Power and Size actually means a lot. The entire reason Brock beat Randy and Mir was casue of power and size.

As for Fedor, Fedor is an absolute machine. There's a reason he's regarded by many as the greatest MMA fighter that's exsited in the sport so far.

Shogun looked like a little kid standing next to Jones, and he had shoes on. If Jones manages to get ahold of Shogun, or finds a pace that he is comfortable with (taking him down multiple times), Shogun might be in serious trouble, cause Jones will easily down Shogun. Shogun has been taken down in every single one of his UFC fights, against guys his size. Imagine how easy Jones will toss him on his head and control him.

Now, again, as my original post stated, I have Shogun winning this fight based on experience and the fact that he's just a plain out beast of a fighter. Size very well might impact this fight a lot, though, given the style matchup.


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## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

The odd thing is, you are really going to see Shoguns BJJ here. Jon Jones is going to take him down with ease and the last time I saw this was with Renato Sobral.

No doubt though, in the stand up, Shogun is far far superior to Jones!


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Wow this is getting out of hand, where's the love for our LHW Champ? The way Jones handled Bader was impressive, but only because of Bader's size; he's not great and he was hyped up to make Jones look great, I know some people love Bader but I've never been impressed by him.

I see talk of 'athleticism' creeping in about Jones, this is not enough against Rua. The gap in skills and knowlegde is absolutely vast, and Rua destroyed Overeem twice - he was a bigger LHW than Jones is.

The holes in Jones' stand up are so evident, he's a learning striker. There's no way that Rua doesn't land some solid chin testers on him, and I'm curious to see how Jones deals with multiple hard leg kicks as well. On the ground is where Jones dominates, but again Rua will probably be doing things that Jones is yet to encounter.

I like watching Jones fight and this is a great opportunity for him but I feel that there's too big a difference in certain skills and experience, plus this may have increased his ego even more and that is a factor, and he may well get tooled a bit. Much more interesting fight than Evans though for sure, Jones' wrestling is much more powerful.


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## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

John8204 said:


> Jones has such a massive reach advantage he could just jab the ever loving heck out of Rua.


LOL. Learn how a jab works. It's not just reach, it's techniqued Jones doesn't have it. If Jones take this to the ground he has an advantage, but standing up, it is a mismatch.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

well then i am on the shogun war wagon on my own despite him being the champ and proving time and time again why he is the best light heavyweight in the world


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## CutterKick (Jan 16, 2011)

UFC_OWNS said:


> well then i am on the shogun war wagon on my own despite him being the champ and proving time and time again why he is the best light heavyweight in the world


Nah, I'm here. I can't wait to see this forum collapse with Jones fans moaning.


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## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

I'm on the Shogun war wagon too UFC!

He is legendary.

The only way he looses is if Jones takes him to the ground and smothers him. That is it.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Put it like this, yes Jones is dangerous, but he doesn't yet posess the skills and experience to come back from an ass kicking IMO. Shogun has been in all situations against all shapes and sizes and wins because of his versatility, I can't understand how so many people are picking Bones.


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## atm1982 (Feb 26, 2008)

All this talk of Jones blowing through Shogun is reminiscent of the Machida hype before their first fight. Any fight is not clear cut and I think Shogun has to be the favourite goint in to the fight. No-one is unbeatable.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I hate to say this, but JBJ is a far bigger threat to Shogun than Rashad and as much as I dislike Rashad as a fighter I knew it was a bad matchup. Shogun's weakness are constant takedowns. It saps his energy and slows him down. Plus he can't explode the way he wants to. 

Bones can pull the upset especially because Shogun's layoff. So I will not be surprised. 

However I want Shogun to win so we can see Anderson fight him for the LHW belt.


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## EliteUndisputed (Nov 26, 2010)

Shogun by gruesome submission.

Jones' long arms finally come back to haunt him.


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

Bones will destroy Shogun as he will with any other LHW for the foreseeable future


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

As impressed as I was with Bones... I dont consider Bader anything special at all.

It's easy to look at Bones fights and assume he'll do the same to Shogun. BUT, Rua is not Bader, or Lil Nog, or Hamill. He is a whole other animal.

The only thing clearly conceded at this stage is size. Bones is much bigger than Rua. This gives him a big advantage. Enough to nullify Shoguns skills? I'm not sure.

One thing I am sure about... this is a MUCH better matchup than Rashad.


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## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

I cant see Jones winning this.. Shoguns leg kicks will destroy Jones legs..


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

i say shogun via randleman kneebar or heel hook or tko/ko


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Jones will **** anyone they´ll put in front of him at this point. He´ll hold that belt for a looooooonnnnnng time.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

I still think Jones looks a bit clumsy on the feet, and if the fight stays there Shogun will light him up. Reach advantage... so what? Shogun will kick the crap out of his legs and body and swarm him with punches in clusters.

The question is how easily can Jones take Shogun down and how quickly can Shogun get back up? It's a fantastic matchup.

I hope Shogun destroys him. I hoped Bader would too but didn't for a second believe it could happen. The striking and all round MMA game of Shogun is far superior to anyone Jones has faced. Can't wait.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

> I still think Jones looks a bit clumsy on the feet, and if the fight stays there Shogun will light him up. Reach advantage... so what? Shogun will kick the crap out of his legs and body and swarm him with punches in clusters.
> 
> The question is how easily can Jones take Shogun down and how quickly can Shogun get back up? It's a fantastic matchup.
> 
> I hope Shogun destroys him. I hoped Bader would too but didn't for a second believe it could happen. The striking and all round MMA game of Shogun is far superior to anyone Jones has faced. Can't wait.





> I cant see Jones winning this.. Shoguns leg kicks will destroy Jones legs..


Yeah Shogun will murder his front leg. Another thing to note, Shogun's reach is actually 2 inches more than Bader's.

On the ground, Jones will be looking more for GnP opportunities, Shogun more for standing up and submissions, and I think Jones' length may actually aid Rua slightly.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

It is virtually impossible to confidently pick a winner for this fight. It really is 50/50.

I can guarantee one thing though. This is going to be an all out war. 

I've been following bones since Bonnar and always believed he will be a future champ, but make no mistake. This isnt going to be some first/second round Jones wipe out. This is war.

Rua isnt Bader, he isnt hamill and he isnt Vera. Both Jones and Rua are born fighters and both very special.

I think one of the key things in this fight is aggression. This will be the first time Jones will have to deal with berserker aggression from Shogun. Both on the feet and on the ground. It doesnt matter where the fight takes place, Rua is constantly attacking and fighting.

Jones can and will take shogun down at will, i truly cant wait to see how Jones top control holds up against Ruas wicked sick guard and ground game. For some reason, shoguns ground game never seems to get the credit it deserves. As soon as you take him down hes diving for a leg lick or looking for a sweep or getting back to his feet. 

Its obvious who has the advantage in the stand up.

I just cant call it. So hyped for this fight.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Shogun cringed against an very old Coleman. That says it all imo.

I give this fight 90 - 10 in Jones favor.


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## CutterKick (Jan 16, 2011)

Mckeever said:


> It is virtually impossible to confidently pick a winner for this fight. It really is 50/50.
> 
> I can guarantee one thing though. This is going to be an all out war.
> 
> ...


Good point. Aggression came to my mind as well but, more in the sense of his guard. Rua isn't going to stall and hope not to get choked like Bader. Rua will be constantly manuevering for submission. His ground game is one of the best at Light Heavyweight, Jones simply hasn't faced that. It's a real bad time for Jones to face this assuming he does. He's not going to power out of a triangle or knock Shogun out with a slam. On the ground, this could be the first time he's vulnerable.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

CutterKick said:


> Good point. Aggression came to my mind as well but, more in the sense of his guard. Rua isn't going to stall and hope not to get choked like Bader. Rua will be constantly manuevering for submission. His ground game is one of the best at Light Heavyweight, Jones simply hasn't faced that. It's a real bad time for Jones to face this assuming he does. He's not going to power out of a triangle or knock Shogun out with a slam. On the ground, this could be the first time he's vulnerable.


Yep. Most people just assess Jones' take downs and Ruas lack of take down defense and immediately pick Jones as the winner.

Just forget about the ground game all together right.

I just cant wait to see how JJ's top controls holds up against Ruas ground game. 
*
EXCITED! *


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

I dont like JBJ that much but no one is going to stop him.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Yep. Most people just assess Jones' take downs and Ruas lack of take down defense and immediately pick Jones as the winner.
> 
> Just forget about the ground game all together right.
> 
> ...


Rua isnt that great off his back


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## CutterKick (Jan 16, 2011)

***** de Amigo said:


> Rua isnt that great off his back


He has a very aggressive guard game, Bones has faced no one like that and the only person in Jackson's like that is 35 pounds lighter than Shogun in Condit.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

***** de Amigo said:


> Rua isnt that great off his back


He is.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

CutterKick said:


> He has a very aggressive guard game, Bones has faced no one like that and the only person in Jackson's like that is 35 pounds lighter than Shogun in Condit.


Being realistic , Rua has a decent guard but it isnt good enough to considered a weapon in this fight.

If Jones was facing a guy with Maia or Jacare grappling then i would say its a risk but Rua has a BB but he isnt on any level with them , Griffin and Sobral both put a clinic of JJ on him so i dont expect to see Shogun slapping any subs on since he has like 1 or 2 submission wins in his career i believe.


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## CutterKick (Jan 16, 2011)

What I don't understand is that people are saying Bones will not be beaten for a long time. This shows me that they've never watched a fight from before 2008.
It was the same with Liddell and Vitor, they couldn't be beaten. What you guys have to understand is that wrestling won't always be as strongly influenced in martial arts as it is right now. Top control has only been nullified by few in the game, Silva springs to mind. Jones will be nullified.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> He is.


Im not hating so i dont wanna end up a flame war but Forrest and Sobral owned him Grappling and i cannot think of instances when i thought wow Rua is "great" off his back , decent yes and good enough to maybe get out of tight spots or not be overwhelmed but great is too far.


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## CutterKick (Jan 16, 2011)

***** de Amigo said:


> Being realistic , Rua has a decent guard but it isnt good enough to considered a weapon in this fight.
> 
> If Jones was facing a guy with Maia or Jacare grappling then i would say its a risk but Rua has a BB but he isnt on any level with them , Griffin and Sobral both put a clinic of JJ on him so i dont expect to see Shogun slapping any subs on since he has like 1 or 2 submission wins in his career i believe.


Griffin's ground game is very solid and Babalu is a Gracie black belt. Jones submission power is light years behind theirs.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

CutterKick said:


> What I don't understand is that people are saying Bones will not be beaten for a long time. This shows me that they've never watched a fight from before 2008.
> It was the same with Liddell and Vitor, they couldn't be beaten. What you guys have to understand is that wrestling won't always be as strongly influenced in martial arts as it is right now. Top control has only been nullified by few in the game, Silva springs to mind. Jones will be nullified.


Silva in reality is a bad example he hasnt nullified top control in fact he is evidence that wrestling is still all round the best thing to have in the sport. 

Silva is a great fighter yet , Sonnen who lets be real only has wrestling can push Silva to the brink of a loss and dominate him like no other , Lesnar also beats guys with his one thing i.e wrestling the same for Fitch , Maynard ton of guys.


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## CutterKick (Jan 16, 2011)

***** de Amigo said:


> Silva in reality is a bad example he hasnt nullified top control in fact he is evidence that wrestling is still all round the best thing to have in the sport.
> 
> Silva is a great fighter yet , Sonnen who lets be real only has wrestling can push Silva to the brink of a loss and dominate him like no other , Lesnar also beats guys with his one thing i.e wrestling the same for Fitch , Maynard ton of guys.


In his day, Liddell ran through guys like Maynard. Then, it was exposed how to beat the kickboxer type, the same will happen to wrestling as it has in the past.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

CutterKick said:


> In his day, Liddell ran through guys like Maynard. Then, it was exposed how to beat the kickboxer type, the same will happen to wrestling as it has in the past.


With rules and the judging he way they are , i dont know how people will stop wrestling. 

Take Rocha vs Ellenberger , jake took him down in round 2 and 3 with 30 secs remaining to steal the round , guys with high class wrestling have no problem doing that and abusing the system , the difference with Jones is he has High class wrestling ,long reach to keep you at bay and great GnP so can abuse the system and finish fights he really is the model guy for the rules.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

CutterKick said:


> Griffin's ground game is very solid and Babalu is a Gracie black belt. Jones submission power is light years behind theirs.


My point isnt that Jones will be able to submit Rua my point is that Rua isnt good enough off his back to submit Jones or anyone with some submission defence for that matter.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

***** de Amigo said:


> Im not hating so i dont wanna end up a flame war but Forrest and Sobral owned him Grappling and i cannot think of instances when i thought wow Rua is "great" off his back , decent yes and good enough to maybe get out of tight spots or not be overwhelmed but great is too far.


Sobral was a very early fight in his career and I personally dont count the Grifin fight. That wasnt the real Shogun in there that night.

Machida has a very solid top game. He owned rampage on the ground and beaten Tito at his own game. He wasnt able to keep Rua on the ground for more than around 12-15 seconds.

He's very good from his back and as i said, aggression will be the key. How will Jones deal with Ruas raw aggression on the feet and on the ground.

Edit: I dont see Rua subbing Jones, thats not what im saying. But he has very good sweeps, reversals and just over all aggression from his back. Hes got great top control and GNP himself too.


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## CutterKick (Jan 16, 2011)

***** de Amigo said:


> My point isnt that Jones will be able to submit Rua my point is that Rua isnt good enough off his back to submit Jones or anyone with some submission defence for that matter.



Rua tapped out Randleman. A guy with the same top control as Jones. Also, it has to be remember, Shogun has good sweeps whic often leads to GnP. If Jones is on his back, he could be screwed.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

CutterKick said:


> Rua tapped out Randleman. A guy with the same top control as Jones. Also, it has to be remember, Shogun has good sweeps whic often leads to GnP. If Jones is on his back, he could be screwed.


Im sorry but Kevin is not even in the same league as Jon Jones , Jon has an all round better game.


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## CutterKick (Jan 16, 2011)

***** de Amigo said:


> Im sorry but Kevin is not even in the same league as Jon Jones , Jon has an all round better game.



Jones isn't as good you guys make him out to be. Put down the Jones Kool Aid.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

CutterKick said:


> Jones isn't as good you guys make him out to be. Put down the Jones Kool Aid.


LOL thats your retort , well Silva isnt as good as you make him out to be put down the Silva KOOL aid.


See what i did there......


Silva doesnt like wrestlers FACT

Jones is bigger , stronger and has GREAT GnP he can beat Anderson.


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## CutterKick (Jan 16, 2011)

***** de Amigo said:


> LOL thats your retort , well Silva isnt as good as you make him out to be put down the Silva KOOL aid.
> 
> 
> See what i did there......
> ...


Silva is faster, better timed and has knockout power as well as submissions.

See what I did there?


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

CutterKick said:


> Silva is faster, better timed and has knockout power as well as submissions.
> 
> See what I did there?


Yea you pointed out Silva's strengths.

like i pointed out Jones advantages.

If you honestly believe that Jones wouldnt be a TOUGH fight for Anderson you are delusional, Bigger stronger guy with wrestling vs a guy who is smaller and is susceptible to take downs.


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## neoseeker (Jun 16, 2007)

My heart say Shogun but my brain says Jones. The one thing I remember is that Shogun already fought someone who was way bigger than him on Overeem. That said, this is an incredible challenge for him, Jones is in a zone right now and Shogun coming from a year of inactivity. I hope Shogun is in real good shape for this fight and develops a good fight plan. He is going to need it. Here's hoping that shogun wins.


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## CutterKick (Jan 16, 2011)

***** de Amigo said:


> Yea you pointed out Silva's strengths.
> 
> like i pointed out Jones advantages.
> 
> If you honestly believe that Jones wouldnt be a TOUGH fight for Anderson you are delusional, Bigger stronger guy with wrestling vs a guy who is smaller and is susceptible to take downs.


I never said it wouldn't be hard fought, Ijust don't believe that Jones isat that level yet.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Holy hell this is tragic... yeah wrestlers currently have good success in MMA, but they are not the best or most well rounded - Silva and Rua are.

If I recall correctly ummm didn't Anderson beat Sonnen? Yes he did he actually finished him. Chael lost, Andy won. Wrestler lost, Andy won. If Silva was not injured that night, he would have KO'd Sonnen in the first round during the stand up exchanges BEFORE it hit the ground. Another factor is that he wanted to win via submission anyway.

Belfort is 10x the striker Sonnen is, and look what happened to him. Silva would beat Sonnen quicker and more impressively should they fight again, he is the better fighter and Sonnen is not his kryptonite.

Jones is no more Silva's kryptonite than Sonnen is, what's the difference between them? Jones is bigger and stronger, but it's not like he could hold Andy down any better than Chael did, because Chael did it as well as anyone could want to, bar finishing the fight. And that's the point, Chael didn't finish the fight, Silva did, and he would do exactly the same to Jones.

Shouldn't need to explain Rua's prowess on the ground, he doesn't have many submission wins but many of his fights have gone to the ground and he wins because of his control and aggression on the ground, and ability to get it back standing should he need to. Whoever said Forrest put on a clinic against him, that is one of the stupidest things I've ever read on this forum.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

SM33 said:


> Holy hell this is tragic... yeah wrestlers currently have good success in MMA, but they are not the best or most well rounded - Silva and Rua are.
> 
> If I recall correctly ummm didn't Anderson beat Sonnen? Yes he did he actually finished him. Chael lost, Andy won. Wrestler lost, Andy won. If Silva was not injured that night, he would have KO'd Sonnen in the first round during the stand up exchanges BEFORE it hit the ground. Another factor is that he wanted to win via submission anyway.
> 
> ...


Lot of stupid going on in this post. If he hadn't been injured he'd have ko'd him in the first? Interesting.

It would be impossible to hold Silva down any better then Sonnen did. Except Jones would be throwing elbows, not giving a face massage. He's lucky Chael refuses to train sub defense. Silva lucked out in that fight, period.

Anderson took a 23 minute ass beating so he could pull off a sub? That makes absolutely no sense.

Back on topic, I see Rua being exhausted after a round or two of being ragdolled and finished with gnp in the late second or early third:thumb02:


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

RustyRenegade said:


> Lot of stupid going on in this post. If he hadn't been injured he'd have ko'd him in the first? Interesting.
> 
> It would be impossible to hold Silva down any better then Sonnen did. Except Jones would be throwing elbows, not giving a face massage. He's lucky Chael refuses to train sub defense. Silva lucked out in that fight, period.
> 
> ...


Not really, Silva was injured and Chael rushed him, until the submission Silva fought almost completely DEFENSIVELY, no doubt because he was injured. Belfort fight, he is uninjured, facing a better striker than Sonnen, Belfort rushes him a couple times, then Silva fights OFFENSIVELY and gets the KO. Interesting.

Silva did not 'luck out' and Chael was not 'giving a face massage', he was aggressive on the ground like he always is. Coincidentally, Silva actually stated before the fight that he wanted to win via submission. Interesting.

Sonnen didn't beat Silva, Silva was fighting injured yet he still insisted on winning that particular fight via submission, and he did it. If they fight again, there is absolutely zero reason to think that Anderson cannot KO Chael in the first round, especially considering Chael probably now thinks he can stand with Anderson.

I'm going to be sensible and take Shogun in this fight, if only because he's the #1 LHW in the world right now, and Jones doesn't present anything he hasn't seen before.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

If Shogun had been healthy and fighting regularly I'd go with him, no question. When he's fighting often and in the groove he has mad cardio and fearless attacks, he'll take risks and pull off crazy moves while setting an insane pace. On top of that, his UFC career has shown that he's pretty darn good at adjusting his style and coming up with gameplans to beat his opponents.

Problem is Shogun's coming off surgery and a long layoff, it's too close for me to call. If Shogun had a fight before matching up with Jones I'd have a much better idea of where things stand.


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

aerius said:


> If Shogun had been healthy and fighting regularly I'd go with him, no question. When he's fighting often and in the groove he has mad cardio and fearless attacks, he'll take risks and pull off crazy moves while setting an insane pace. On top of that, his UFC career has shown that he's pretty darn good at adjusting his style and coming up with gameplans to beat his opponents.
> 
> Problem is Shogun's coming off surgery and a long layoff, it's too close for me to call. If Shogun had a fight before matching up with Jones I'd have a much better idea of where things stand.


Dude was ready to go in November (according to his camp), Shogun will be fine.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Jon Jones should take it.... but I will be rooting whole-heartedly for Shogun.


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## neoseeker (Jun 16, 2007)

aerius said:


> If Shogun had been healthy and fighting regularly I'd go with him, no question. When he's fighting often and in the groove he has mad cardio and fearless attacks, he'll take risks and pull off crazy moves while setting an insane pace. On top of that, his UFC career has shown that he's pretty darn good at adjusting his style and coming up with gameplans to beat his opponents.
> 
> Problem is Shogun's coming off surgery and a long layoff, it's too close for me to call. If Shogun had a fight before matching up with Jones I'd have a much better idea of where things stand.


Well said.


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## Ryankmfdm (Sep 24, 2010)

The simple fact of the matter is that Jones has yet to face a fighter of Shogun's caliber. It makes me laugh that people seem to think Jones is gonna run through him.


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## streetpunk08 (Jul 15, 2006)

The biggest question for me is how will Shogun look coming off another knee injury. If he's healthy I think he wins the fight. Jones has so many holes in the standup and I think Bader even though not the best striker by any means really got thrown off by the reach of Bones. Shogun is more than comfortable when fighting on the inside and Jones leaves his chin wide open. Bones comes out strong in the 1st round so if Shogun gets out of the first he wins. Bones has more holes and more questions than Shogun. Shogun has the type of style where he always seems that he's gonna get picked apart or dominated but he never does, he's definitely a gamer.

I also think Shogun has a seriously underrated camp. Him and his team put together great strategies to beat Chuck and in both Machida fights. Shogun has fought damn near everybody at 205 and isn't going to be intimidated. Sky is the limit for Jones but he still isn't there yet imo. Big difference between Bader and Shogun. Bader was obviously intimidated and didn't look confident at all.


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

Shogun Rua is my most favorite fighter. So I could be biased.

Anyway I was afraid about 2 things. Layoff after surgery and Rashads wrestling. Bones is more dangerous than Rashad for Rua. No doubts. 

My hopes goes for Jones inexperience. Im even surprised that he took that fight. I think is too soon for him. He never was in trouble in his fights. We dont know what will happen. Brock is giant, freak of nature but.. When you hit him.. You all know what happened.

Breakdown:
Shogun will destroy JBJ standing so.(Its Jacksons fighter) He will have his gameplan - go to ground asap. No way Rua can stop his takedown.
If Shogun bjj helps Rua stand or sweep he will win the fight. If not JBJ will win.


Damn I was pumped for Rashad fight. This is whole different ball game.. I might get a heart attack watching the fight:thumb02:


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## rallyman (Mar 15, 2010)

its funny im not really on the jones train... yet:confused02: 

what worries me about jones as stated many times is that he is yet to face a top 5 LHW so we havnt seen him tested or how he recovers when hurt ect ect. theres no doubt the guys talented and was very suprised by how easily he walked through bader (although thought he would win)but shogun for the title wil be a massive step up.

for me im picking shogun. his experience will mean he wont come into this match without a good game plan. the layoff could be to his advantage given that he is healed and fully fit. i see his striking being the difference. 

regardless iits going to be a cracker fightraise01:


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

Jones will make Shogun look slow and silly like he's done to the other guys - technically he's got gaps but he dominates people. He's doing somthing right.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

There is a high probability of jones being knocked out.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Going with Shogun. JBJ is no doubt a talented fighter, but he's like a patchwork martial artist. Not a true martial artist as he just got into the game three years ago, but he learns very quickly and is able to apply it.

IE: He explained that he watched GSP train that guillotine and he never practiced it. Then he actually uses it and wins with it!? Watch the Gracie breakdown on Youtube explain it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRYdN-DkPSg

Man if he didn't have surgery I'd have more confidence in Shogun. I hope...sincerely hope he doesn't come in like he did against Griffin and Coleman. 

If it's not a TKO I can see Shogun pulling off a slick submission to an inexperienced, yet very talented JBJ. 

The crowd, five rounder, and all the hype will surely get to JBJ. He's only 23.

Food for thought. If JBJ wins we could see Anderson Silva vs him.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> Going with Shogun. JBJ is no doubt a talented fighter, but he's like a patchwork martial artist. Not a true martial artist as he just got into the game three years ago, but he learns very quickly and is able to apply it.
> 
> IE: He explained that he watched GSP train that guillotine and he never practiced it. Then he actually uses it and wins with it!? Watch the Gracie breakdown on Youtube explain it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRYdN-DkPSg
> 
> ...


No doubt. He looked incredibly nervous right before the Bader fight too. He came into his own when it was time to fight, but at such a young age, i would be shocked if the pressure of fighting Rua in a five round title fight didnt get to him.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> No doubt. He looked incredibly nervous right before the Bader fight too. He came into his own when it was time to fight, but at such a young age, i would be shocked if the pressure of fighting Rua in a five round title fight didnt get to him.


Why would anyone want to discredit him for being nervous? He better damn well be nervous. The two biggest fights of his life are going to happen within two months of each other, one of which are for the title.

Pressure brings out different reactions for certain types of people and my money is on Jon passing the test with flying colors. 

War Jones!


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

RustyRenegade said:


> Why would anyone want to discredit him for being nervous? He better damn well be nervous. The two biggest fights of his life are going to happen within two months of each other, one of which are for the title.
> 
> Pressure brings out different reactions for certain types of people and my money is on Jon passing the test with flying colors.
> 
> War Jones!


I wasnt trying to discredit him in the slightest.

You're right, pressure does bring out different reactions with certain types of people. Nervousness from pressure can lead to mistakes and errors, (look at GSP when he was younger and fought Hughes for the first time) or fighters can use it to transform into animals in the cage. 

We'll see how he deals with this kind of pressure come fight time.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> I wasnt trying to discredit him in the slightest.
> 
> You're right, pressure does bring out different reactions with certain types of people. Nervousness from pressure can lead to mistakes and errors, (look at GSP when he was younger and fought Hughes for the first time) or fighters can use it to transform into animals in the cage.
> 
> We'll see how he deals with this kind of pressure come fight time.


I'm definitely biased but I don't see him having any problems with pressure in big fights. 

The dude has every advantage possible; Height, reach, genetics(two siblings pro athletes), dedication, humility, great training partners, great coaching, and creativity that makes him special.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Jones via TKO in the 1st.

Shogun has the worst TDD is all of the UFC and his ground game isn't anything to worry about. I want Shogun to win just as much as the next guy it isn't happening.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> No doubt. He looked incredibly nervous right before the Bader fight too. He came into his own when it was time to fight, but at such a young age, i would be shocked if the pressure of fighting Rua in a five round title fight didnt get to him.





RustyRenegade said:


> I'm definitely biased but I don't see him having any problems with pressure in big fights.
> 
> The dude has every advantage possible; Height, reach, genetics(two siblings pro athletes), dedication, humility, great training partners, great coaching, and creativity that makes him special.


Yah nobody is wrong here. It's for that reason he was given the title shot. I would have liked to see JBJ vs the winner of Rampage/Thiago Silva or Machida/Couture then fight for the championship. Circumstance deemed otherwise. This is HIS SHOT. 

What's interesting is that all the betting odds show JBJ as the favorite at -195. So I will be making a small bet on Shogun. There's no doubt in my mind that JBJ can take it, but nobody thinks Shogun (Pride champ/current LHW champ who defeated a seemingly invincible Machida) can win?

Lets just say it's gonna be fantastic fight! I hope Shogun is 100%. Every LHW championship bout has been fireworks! I wasn't very pleased with Rashad getting the title shot especially with his lack luster wins against Thiago and Rampage. But this fight...I'll be watching intently.


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## +Shogun+ (Aug 3, 2007)

My two favorite fighters... I almost don't even want this fight, because someone has to lose 


Draw. lol


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## HellRazor (Sep 24, 2006)

vilify said:


> my heart says bones but my brain says shogun.


Ditto


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

shogun will do what he did to ramoage jackson to jones in a 3rd round tko after killing jones body with knees and knees to his head. shogun was the on ehwo figured out the near impossible machida puzzle twice and he will do the same to jones.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

Mckeever said:


> It is virtually impossible to confidently pick a winner for this fight. It really is 50/50.
> 
> I can guarantee one thing though. This is going to be an all out war.
> 
> ...



It going to be interesting, that's for sure. Quoted you because it's one of the only good posts in this thread.

First off, I question a lot of people stating Jones will "Run through" shogun easily. Is everyone here that posts under 20 years old with limited MMA knowledge?

Yes Jones has scary talent and yes, one day he will be champ... but not when Shogun is still in the division. The difference here is at the same age of Jones, Shogun had vastly more experience, fought MUCH, MUCH more talented fighters to get the LHW GP.

I think it's partly due to the casual fans that I get upset, just jumping on/off bandwagons. It's not the fighter I disrepect, it's the fans that know nothing of the fighters.

I believe Shogun is going to make a big example of Jones. He won't take him lightly either... I know he has respect for young, talented fighters (he was once in that very same position in PRIDE). I just see this as a rushed shot at the title for Jones. 

He will be getting his first 'real' blemish on his record come title time. How he picks himself up post fight will determine if one day he will be champion material.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...This fight is really interesting for many reasons. With another surgery and long layoff for Shogun, we don't know if he will perform at his top like he did against Machida. Jon's wrestling, his camp, his confidence, endurance unorthodox striking, reach, ect. makes Bones one lucky, talented kid. I'm sure he and Rashad have a solid wrestling plan. Bones is taller, bigger and needs to put Shogun on his back and watch for submissions. Bones shouldn't test Shogun's Muay Thai on the feet. Shogun's knees & kicks could put Jones on ice quick. 
...With all that, Jones certainly has everything in line to win this fight. This is the ultimate fight of Jon's life. I wish the kid luck. If Shogun returns in UFC 104/113 shape, this match could turn out to be a mindblowing fight...


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

I feel jones is going to dominate Shogun, but if he Shogun shows up with his spirits high, this is going to be a war. Shogun has so much more experience than Jones, it might be a bit too early for Bones to be fighting someone as high profile as Rua, and at the same time it's his first REAL test if you ask me. Both fighters have something to prove coming into this fight, so it'll come down to whose will is stronger. Hopefully it doesn't go to a stupid decision where the judges score it wrong...ahem.


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## Azemiops (Oct 15, 2006)

A few points to add.
First off, I'm not gonna discredit Jones at all. For his age, and length of time spent training in MMA, he's beyond incredible. The guy deserves all the props in the world for reaching his level so quickly. However, that being said, I see this fight being a true turning point for him, and a bit of a reality check. Jones has not come close to facing a machine like Shogun.
Some factors on Shogun to point out...out of his 19 wins, 14 of those came without his opponenet making it out of the first round. Size and reach hasn't worked against him either. He's KOed the Reem twice, who is actually taller than Jones and well, I don't think we need to compare Reem's striking to Jones'. Also, if you watch every fight in his career, Shogun is incredibly difficult to keep on his back. There's no shame in being submitted by Babalu, and it's a known fact he took the Griffin fight without being fully healthy, or prepared. He has said he took that fight, fully aware of those factors, because he needed the payday. And lastly, say what you will about Randleman, the guy is freakishly powerful, and he bullrushed, and took Shogun down with all the ferocity the Monster has but, couldnt control Shogun from the top.
Jones has a huge future ahead of him, and WILL hold a UFC belt in his career but, this fight isnt his time BUT, I do think the things he will learn from this fight will be beyond valuable for him, and will strengthen his game, much like GSP's early loss to Matt Hughes did the same for him.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I saw the promo this afternoon. Shogun's brief 'this is my division' grin has me believing whole heartedly that he's going to layeth the smacketh down on Jon Jones. War. Shogun.


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## Azemiops (Oct 15, 2006)

HitOrGetHit said:


> There is a high probability of jones being knocked out.


Kind of an afterthought but, felt like this was worthy of quoting, and adding a comment to. Mostly because it's one of the most intelligent comments in this entire thread.

Let's not forget who we're talking about here. Shogun is an absolute master at putting his opponents to sleep. Everyone talks about what a knockout king Chuck Liddell was but, let's see...in a career spanning over 12 years, and 29 wins, Liddell managed to knock out 13 of his opponents. Comparatively, in Shogun's 8 year career, and 19 wins, a staggering 16 of those were knockouts. Knocking out the likes of Rampage Jackson, Ricardo Arona, Alistair Overeem TWICE, Ricardo Arona, Hall of Famers Mark Coleman and Chuck Liddell, and of course, the once 'invincible' Lyoto Machida. At his best, Shogun has the ability to put anyone to sleep so, I would have to agree....there is a very very high probability of Jones being knocked out.


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## Coke (Mar 2, 2011)

No_Mercy said:


> I hate to say this, but JBJ is a far bigger threat to Shogun than Rashad and as much as I dislike Rashad as a fighter I knew it was a bad matchup. Shogun's weakness are constant takedowns. It saps his energy and slows him down. Plus he can't explode the way he wants to.
> 
> Bones can pull the upset especially because Shogun's layoff. So I will not be surprised.
> 
> However I want Shogun to win so we can see Anderson fight him for the LHW belt.


If Jones Beat Shogun, Anderson can challenger Jones for the 205 pounds title. I think Jones is a extremely bad matchup for Anderson Silva.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

I really thought that Jones should've gotten a top 5 guy before a title fight. Someone like Machida or Rampage, a former champion would've been a great test, without the pressure of fighting for the strap. 

But while Jones' x factor is his relative inexperience, Shogun's health is just as big of a question mark. 

Having said that, I've been singing Jones' praises for so long, it would be silly to bet on someone else at this point. 

Jones by a coin flip.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Jones. Shogun has been very inconsistent with his injuries, Jones has shown zero weakness.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

I can't imagine this fight being competitive. All Jones does is take-down to elbow. Seriously there's no way that Jones wins this.


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> I can't imagine this fight being competitive. All Jones does is take-down to elbow. Seriously there's no way that Jones wins this.


I hope you are right


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## sbarnett8 (Mar 13, 2011)

*Read This Article!*

This is a preview of the UFC 128 fight on Jones and Shogun.
http://www.pennmanor.net/pennpoints/?p=20854

THIS WILL SUM UP EVERYTHING! Feel free to leave your opinion.


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