# Picture of Brock Lesnar when he was 16 years old...



## kickstar




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## Spite

Shit, I bet he was able to extract some lunch money from fellow students... probably the teachers too.


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## Killz

Looks like he found a Roids dealer early in his life.


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## Liddellianenko

Killz said:


> Looks like he found a Roids dealer early in his life.


That's what I figured too lol. He was caught with a steroids package at age 26, it's quite possible he started earlier during high school, many of the so called "freak athletes" in school do.


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## DonRifle

How in the funk is a kid gona be doing roids at 16! How negligent is that on the part of parents and wrestling coach or whatever. 

Or maybe Lesnar is really a freak of nature with a body structure and shoulders like that and just used the roids to become even more of a freak.

How is it possible to have shoulders like that at 16 even with roids!


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## Liddellianenko

DonRifle said:


> How in the funk is a kid gona be doing roids at 16! How negligent is that on the part of parents and wrestling coach or whatever.
> 
> Or maybe Lesnar is really a freak of nature with a body structure and shoulders like that and just used the roids to become even more of a freak.
> 
> How is it possible to have shoulders like that at 16 even with roids!


Plenty of kids do man ... as to how the parents or coaches allowed it, I mean you could pretty much use the same argument when it comes to any substance from weed to drugs, but kids still do them. You can't police them all the time, only pass down love and values and hope they stick. But yeah I agree more often than not I'd say it's negligence that allows or encourages it, not all families are the brady bunch.

I don't doubt that Lesnar is also genetically gifted and a hard worker, not every random kid who does roids can walk his way into the NFL and win an NCAA championship. He grew up on a farm, those guys can have great strength and stamina when nurtured right, and has been an athlete his whole life and wrestling informally since he was 5.

But even with all that, there is no way that is a natural 16 year old body. It's just not built to pack on so much so early while it's still maturing.


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## UFC_OWNS

Liddellianenko said:


> Plenty of kids do man ... as to how the parents or coaches allowed it, I mean you could pretty much use the same argument when it comes to any substance from weed to drugs, but kids still do them. You can't police them all the time, only pass down love and values and hope they stick. But yeah I agree more often than not I'd say it's negligence that allows or encourages it, not all families are the brady bunch.
> 
> I don't doubt that Lesnar is also very genetically gifted and a hard worker, not every random kid who does roids can walk his way into the NFL and win an NCAA championship. He grew up on a farm, those guys can have ridiculous strength and stamina when nurtured right, and has been an athlete his whole life and wrestling informally since he was 5.
> 
> But even with all that, there is no way that is a natural 16 year old body. It's just not built to pack on so much so early while it's still maturing.


I have an old docu on lesnar, the guy every day carried a big log on his shoulder and ran miles with it every day, he was a born freak, if he got roids no doubt it was during his first wwe stint.


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## Liddellianenko

UFC_OWNS said:


> I have an old docu on lesnar, the guy every day carried a big log on his shoulder and ran miles with it every day, he was a born freak, if he got roids no doubt it was during his first wwe stint.


Possible, but that pic really doesn't seem right to me. Carrying a log and such isn't really proof one way or another IMO, there's no reason he couldn't be a strong gifted kid who chose to get even stronger the wrong way. I guess only he knows really, but that body in the pic certainly has the typical roids "look". Bulging veins and all.

But yeah, early or not I'm almost certain he was on them during the first WWE stint, he even hinted as much in some of his psuedo-confessional interviews about that time, and WWE's track record is pretty obvious.


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## UFC_OWNS

Liddellianenko said:


> Possible, but that pic really doesn't seem right to me. Carrying a log and such isn't really proof one way or another IMO, there's no reason he couldn't be a strong gifted kid who chose to get even stronger the wrong way. I guess only he knows really.
> 
> But yeah, early or not I'm almost certain he was on them during the first WWE stint, he even hinted as much in some of his psuedo-confessional interviews about that time, and WWE's track record is pretty obvious.


Vince has an absurd love for steriods even though it really doesn't do anything to help them without damaging their mental health and eventually physical health unless they also use recovery roids for all the time there out on the road.


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## Killz

A lot of aspiring athletes in High school/ College take steroids to try and make the grade.

Nobody will convince me that Lesnar wasnt on them for this pic. No 16 year old looks like that. (are we sure he is definitely 16 in this pic?)


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## Liddellianenko

UFC_OWNS said:


> Vince has an absurd love for steriods even though it really doesn't do anything to help them without damaging their mental health and eventually physical health unless they also use recovery roids for all the time there out on the road.


Substance abusers aren't exactly known for their common sense I suppose :dunno:. The pro wrestling viewers' fascination with big bulging bods probably also encourages it though.


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## UFC_OWNS

Liddellianenko said:


> Substance abusers aren't exactly known for their common sense I suppose :dunno:.


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## SideWays222




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## Danm2501

Didn't Brock work on a farm from a young age, and as a result was constantly lifting heavy shit? Also, I remember seeing a WWE made documentary about him, and he was a savage when he was young. Constantly working out, constantly lifting weights. I'm sure he probably has used PED's at some point in his career, but I firmly believe he's been blessed with ludicrous genes. The guy's not just big, he's ridiculously strong, and you don't get hands that big from steroids. The guy's a beast.


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## cdtcpl

I'm sorry guys, but I am still gonna go with the viking theory. While I don't doubt that probably just prior and during his WWE stint he was on roids, I think he is one of those genetic freaks who also happened to work out and get visible gains from it. Hell the Rock was also jacked at 16/17 . Good Genes + working out = monster results.


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## DonRifle

Maybe Lesnar will write a book one day and tell us all. 

To have those shoulders at 16 though is something else. At 19 I started doing weights and for 2 years straight I trained shoulders 3 times a week until I could shoulder press 2 x 32kg dumbells for 3 sets. My shoulders were big and people were saying I looked like a tank, but compared to Lesnar at 16 I looked like one of the geeks in revenge of the nerds. 

But maybe this log carrying was the key, and all that meat and potatoes.


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## No_Mercy

What I want to know is how he got those trapz! It'll be impossible to choke em out.


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## Spite

I remember watching an interview with Brock awhile back and he insisted that he had never used anything but supplements and even pointed to the fact that even as a kid he was ridiculously big.

I know he looks jacked in the picture and I really would have a hard time in defending him as a guy who never used steroids. But the fact is he has never been caught with them in his system, not by the UFC, WWE or anybody else.

His body shape has always, at least in my opinion looked different to your typical roid abusers, so I'm always seconding guessing myself when it comes to Lesnar and roids.








Batista - clearly on roids.








Lesnar - Hmmm not sure


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## hellholming

basically me and all my friends grew up on farms, and none of us looked like that when we were 16.


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## Toxic

Liddellianenko said:


> That's what I figured too lol. He was caught with a steroids package at age 26, it's quite possible he started earlier during high school, many of the so called "freak athletes" in school do.


Lesnar was never caught for roids, he was arrested on suspicion but they were vitamins or some shit like that. It was basically an absurd arrest where he had some kind of pills and an overzealous cop assumed because of the size of him they were steroids.


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## Harness

I believe Brock is just naturally a monster. Look at him in school. Even when he was young he looked like you wouldn't **** with him.


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## Spite

hellholming said:


> basically me and all my friends grew up on farms, and none of us looked like that when we were 16.


Yeah but did you do chores like this everyday?


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## Gustafsson Fan

Why do we not see any farmers like that in countries that are undeveloped where steroid supplies do not exist ?
There are plenty of countries where heavy lifts, lots of fish and meat is available where none develop that kind of build. Answer is because it is not natural. A natural build is using up as little energy as possible to perform a task. No one do heavy lifts 8 hours a day. Most lifts are a combinatin of strengh and cardio so a guy that is strong and with marathon endurance would be better than a guy that is simply massive.

I think a guy like Forrest Griffin or Clay Guida would be better at working on a farm than Brock Lesnar.


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## amoosenamedhank

Liddellianenko said:


> I guess only he knows really, but that body in the pic certainly has the typical roids "look". Bulging veins and all.


Those aren't bulging veins, those are muscle striations. So I'm not sure I trust your eye on "classic steroid use look"

There are a lot of farmers who don't look like Brock.... but that's why Brock is/was a professional athlete and not still farming.


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## GDPofDRB

lol Brock was and is a again on steroids, it's pretty funny that someone would believe he was/is not. The front pic doesn't look like 16 year old Brock. Brock was 16 in 1994. Look at his wrestling pics from 1994.


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## amoosenamedhank

GDPofDRB said:


> lol Brock was and is a again on steroids, it's pretty funny that someone would believe he was/is not. The front pic doesn't look like 16 year old Brock. Brock was 16 in 1994. Look at his wrestling pics from 1994.


I thought his little bio mentioned he didn't start putting on serious muscle until senior year of high school. I have also questioned the legitimacy of the age claim.


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## Ape City

SideWays222 said:


>


Take a look at the picture from 1995. That's supposedly Lesnar when he was 17. No way in hell the picture on the first page is Lesnar at 16 and the picture here is Lesnar at 17. I call shenanigans. One of the two pictures has a wrong date, or one isn't him.



kickstar said:


>


Also check out the traps on Lesnar in the first pic when he looks to be like 12 years old. jeez.


edit: he also has a tattoo in the first picture. I think the first picture is definitely a fake date. Lesnar has no tats in any of his other high school wrestling pics. Look at his face too. I bet he is closer to 20 in that first picture.


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## Rastaman

A sizeable chunk of athletes at my high school used roids, but the interesting part is that it wasn't the students who were naturally great at sports, but the ones who were on the fringe of the team: good enough to get in, but not good enough to excel. They were just looking for an extra boost so they could be as good, in their mind, as their student athlete peers.


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## The Best Around

Hard to say. On one hand, based on reading his book, you could tell his diet was pretty much just red meat, bananas, and milk (probably what partially lead to his disease). And he worked on a farm and would just work out and lift heavy things all the time. So I guess it's not impossible to say he's natural, especially since he hardly got injured.

But on the other hand, you can pretty much question anyone being that legit who is that big.


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## rabakill

I think what gives him credibility is that his frame is so big, he's naturally designed to be a giant man, his torso would be huge if he didn't lift weights. A buddy of mine who is quite skinny and tall has the same kind of frame as Brock and with an hour of weightlifting a day he'd be just like Brock, it's tough to say for sure whether he's on steroids but if anyone did it naturally it's Brock. Add to the fact that he gets pissed off when people ask him about I think it's a good chance he's natural, most guys who abused heavily (Armstrong, Bonds, Sosa) look right in the camera and say "I never used performance enhancing drugs", Brock gets visibly irritated and won't even answer.


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## dave-stjohn

We had a local football hero back in the early 90's named Steve Emtman, he was a big farm/ranch kid that was from here in Eastern Wa. and looked a lot like Brock. He started at the UW Huskies as a behemoth d-linesman, got drafted by the Colts the 1st pick overall. He was touted as a sure fire stud who would play right away, unfortunately he was plagued by injuries from the start and was out of the league within 5 years and never did play a full season. The problem turned out that he couldn't train as hard without roids to keep his muscle mass up that hid some pretty seriously weak joints. And that's what makes me think Brock is clean or didn't need to do as much juice that it would hide weak joints. The pic of him on the water was no way taken in 93. You have 2 pics dated 1/29/93 and one 8/93 and there is no way those pics line up date wise.


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## BrockfanSilva

Brocks a natural IMO. Most steroid abusers bodies look weird and out of proportion in some way. Take a look at that Batista picture above to see what im talking about. Nothing about Brock body looks out of proportion, he's just a big ass dude!


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## hellholming

BrockfanSilva said:


> Nothing about Brock body looks out of proportion, he's just a big ass dude!


his traps are waay too damn big for the rest of his body.


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## BobbyD

hellholming said:


> his traps are waay too damn big for the rest of his body.


He's intentionally making them look bigger. I don't have big traps, but if I flare my shoulder blades I can make them look huge. Some guys can do it and some can't. That's what it looks like he's doing to me.


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## Ludinator

Are some of you guys stupid?. Of course Brock was on the steroids, and from a very young age. If you have ever read his book then you would know brocks mum and dad would push him hard, failure was never an option, second place wasn't good enought. His parents were probably injecting him with them. He's actually been caughth with them, his physique changed as soon as he entered the ufc.


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## John8204

He's been "caught" with supplements and vitamins.



> Lesnar also talked about his physique and steroids, noting that he's taken over 60 steroid tests and that he's built like a black man (his words).
> 
> “I bet you I’ve taken over 60 steroid tests," he noted. "In college I had 15 random drug tests in two years. I’ve taken drug tests for the NFL, the WWE, the UFC. I must be pretty good at masking steroids. God gave me this body: Are you jealous of it or what? Give me a break. I got the genetics of—not to get into racism or anything—but I’m built like a black man. Would you say so?”


4 Organizations have tested him 60 times so either he is the greatest cycler in the history of juicing or he's built like a black man. Also I guess persecuted like one.

Also they've pretty much caught everyone in the WWE that was using by going after the doctors. Brock's name has never come up, frankly the guys you have to look out for are the Brian Bowles (the little injured guys) not the guys that spent 10 years building up their bodies.


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## Rauno

Just look at Lesnars youth pictures. The mans been always built like a truck. No way he's doing roids. 

Sent from my GT-S5660 using VerticalSports.Com App


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## rabakill

Ludinator said:


> Are some of you guys stupid?. Of course Brock was on the steroids, and from a very young age. If you have ever read his book then you would know brocks mum and dad would push him hard, failure was never an option, second place wasn't good enought. His parents were probably injecting him with them. He's actually been caughth with them, his physique changed as soon as he entered the ufc.


his physique changed when he entered the ufc because he went from training for physique to training for mma as he needed more mobility. They also cover the wrestlers in oil all the time (exactly like body builders) to appear more muscular and defined than they really are. Sure he may be on steroids, but there's never been one shred of evidence besides rampant speculation by people like you. 

by the way, vitamins and supplements aren't steroids.


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## Killz

To those saying Lesnar has never used roids because 'he doesnt have the same body shape as someone on roids', you guys do realise that every single person grows differently from steroids, depending on which steroids they've taken and how their diet has been when cycling.

Just because you roid doesnt mean you are going to be huge and ripped to bits. If he ran a post cycle cutting roid like whinstrol or something similar, yeah, he'd have a lot more cut phsyique but if not, he would end up normally with that bulky, tank style physique.

I know a lot of guys who cycle steroids and some of them are lean with a ripped body and others, quite frankly, look like bulky shit from not doing it efficiently.

Lesnar roided... i'm 100% sure of it.


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## John8204

Killz said:


> Lesnar roided... i'm 100% sure of it.



Well as long as your 100% sure that totally negates the 60 tests from four different organizations (NCAA, NFL, WWE, and UFC) that Brock passed.



> Brock Lesnar, the World Wrestling Entertainment champion, was once arrested for illegally possessing steroids, though the felony charge against the 26-year-old athlete was dismissed four months after his January 2001 arrest. Lesnar, pictured in the below mug shot, was popped by Louisville Division of Police detectives after receiving and opening a parcel that cops said contained a "large amount of steroids." Lesnar, a 295-pound former college wrestling champ, was in Kentucky training at a WWE facility. Hit with a trafficking in controlled substances charge, Lesnar was exonerated when tests showed that the seized pills were not, in fact, steroids.


Well five if you count the government, because you know the government actually went through his mail and found he was...not on anything illegal.


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## Killz

The NFL and WWE, 2 organisations well known to be full of athletes abusing steroids. You can't tell me the 'testing' in those organisations was 100% legit.

I dont believe Lesnar was roiding in the UFC but in his College football/wrestling career? No doubt about it.


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## John8204

Killz said:


> The NFL and WWE, 2 organisations well known to be full of athletes abusing steroids. You can't tell me the 'testing' in those organisations was 100% legit.


I think the WWE testing was legit for two reasons.

1. When Brock left the WWE tried to sue him into not working again and had they had a positive test they would have outed him.

2. They literally caught dozens of guys from his era through doctor stings, never got Brock.

http://wrestlingtruth.com/wrestling...t-in-illegal-steroid-pharamacy-bust-09102007/



> Randy Orton, Charlie Haas, Adam Copeland (Edge), Robert Huffman (King Booker), Shane Helms, Mike Bucci (the now retired Simon Dean, who was not on the active roster and worked in talent development), Anthony Carelli (Santino Marella), John Hennigan (ECW Champion John Morrison), Darren Matthews (William Regal), Ken Anderson (Kennedy), Chavo Guerrero, Shoichi Funaki, Dave Bautista (Batista), Chris Mordetsky (Masters) and Eddie Fatu (Umaga). All of which are or have been major stars in the WWE during the last few years.


They had more evidence against this guy 










than Brock

This guy was caught and died from drugs










and Brock's still alive

you can't just look at a guy and say "ROIDS" without any evidence.


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## Killz

Good points well made.

I still think he was on roids, even if I have no solid evidence to back it up.


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## SideWays222

Killz said:


> To those saying Lesnar has never used roids because 'he doesnt have the same body shape as someone on roids', you guys do realise that every single person grows differently from steroids, depending on which steroids they've taken and how their diet has been when cycling.
> 
> Just because you roid doesnt mean you are going to be huge and ripped to bits. If he ran a post cycle cutting roid like whinstrol or something similar, yeah, he'd have a lot more cut phsyique but if not, he would end up normally with that bulky, tank style physique.
> 
> I know a lot of guys who cycle steroids and some of them are lean with a ripped body and others, quite frankly, look like bulky shit from not doing it efficiently.
> 
> Lesnar roided... *i'm 100% sure of it*.


lol

I mean you can believe something without evidence but you cant be 100% sure without evidence.


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## Killz

SideWays222 said:


> lol
> 
> I mean you can believe something without evidence but you cant be 100% sure without evidence.


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## dlxrevolution

SideWays222 said:


>





kickstar said:


>


Something about this reeks of bullshit...

According to Wikipedia, Brock was born in 1977, which means by 1995 he was 18. If he is 16 years old on the bottom picture, how in the hell did he go from being Hulk jacked, to looking like a twig again, then back to being a jacked Heavyweight in College?

I'm more inclined to believe the top picture because there usually isn't a reason to change the date of the camera at the time to being years later than it actually is. So someone may have edited the dates on the bottom picture without doing their research. Also, there is a claim that this picture:










...is of him his senior year of high school. I also saw a video of him on youtube (Can't find the video at the moment) wrestling and wearing this exact singlet, and losing to his opponent. Wikipedia also claims that he went undefeated during his senior year of high school. So he was either 19 in this picture as a junior in high school, or it could actually be a picture/video of him when he wrestled at Bismarck State (which would make more sense).

About the steroids issue, there's not a single doubt in my mind that Brock Lesnar has used steroids before. Does that mean I think he was an avid steroid user? No. He may have have probably used them early on in high school. The early high school pictures show him as a twig then suddenly becoming the hulk by his junior/senior year. Any muscle/body building and nutrition expert will tell you that it takes *at least* 2 - 3 years of a healthy amount of lifting to build 40 - 70 lbs of muscle. You expect me to believe he went from 0 - 100 in one year just on pure red meat, genetics, and farm boy lifting? Yeah, I think it's obvious he's had some "extra" lucky charms in his cereal at some point.

All that being said, I'm not saying his success in the WWE, and multiple sports stem completely from steroids use. In fact, I believe after high school, his success is probably 100% legitimately from hardwork, dedication, and natural ability. Which may explain why he gets upset when his name gets associated with steroids, and why he's has passed all the steroid tests that he's been given. But on that same token, not all steroid substances are detectable, nor is all steroid tests 100% legit. Lance Armstrong, and Olympic Sprinter Ben Johnson were passing all of their tests before being eventually caught and admitting to taking steroids years before they were ever caught.


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## JASONJRF

dl said:


> Lance Armstrong, and Olympic Sprinter Ben Johnson were passing all of their tests before being eventually caught and admitting to taking steroids years before they were ever caught.


Wasnt Lance armstrong on EPO which they dont or cant test for?


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## John8204

Also Lance was outed by other people, it wasn't just "he looks like he was doping" people came forward with information because you can't hide doping. Someone will always snitch because you can't dope in a bubble.


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## rabakill

dlxrevolution said:


> Something about this reeks of bullshit...
> 
> According to Wikipedia, Brock was born in 1977, which means by 1995 he was 18. If he is 16 years old on the bottom picture, how in the hell did he go from being Hulk jacked, to looking like a twig again, then back to being a jacked Heavyweight in College?
> 
> I'm more inclined to believe the top picture because there usually isn't a reason to change the date of the camera at the time to being years later than it actually is. So someone may have edited the dates on the bottom picture without doing their research. Also, there is a claim that this picture:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...is of him his senior year of high school. I also saw a video of him on youtube (Can't find the video at the moment) wrestling and wearing this exact singlet, and losing to his opponent. Wikipedia also claims that he went undefeated during his senior year of high school. So he was either 19 in this picture as a junior in high school, or it could actually be a picture/video of him when he wrestled at Bismarck State (which would make more sense).
> 
> About the steroids issue, there's not a single doubt in my mind that Brock Lesnar has used steroids before. Does that mean I think he was an avid steroid user? No. He may have have probably used them early on in high school. The early high school pictures show him as a twig then suddenly becoming the hulk by his junior/senior year. Any muscle/body building and nutrition expert will tell you that it takes *at least* 2 - 3 years of a healthy amount of lifting to build 40 - 70 lbs of muscle. You expect me to believe he went from 0 - 100 in one year just on pure red meat, genetics, and farm boy lifting? Yeah, I think it's obvious he's had some "extra" lucky charms in his cereal at some point.
> 
> All that being said, I'm not saying his success in the WWE, and multiple sports stem completely from steroids use. In fact, I believe after high school, his success is probably 100% legitimately from hardwork, dedication, and natural ability. Which may explain why he gets upset when his name gets associated with steroids, and why he's has passed all the steroid tests that he's been given. But on that same token, not all steroid substances are detectable, nor is all steroid tests 100% legit. Lance Armstrong, and Olympic Sprinter Ben Johnson were passing all of their tests before being eventually caught and admitting to taking steroids years before they were ever caught.


funny that you say he couldn't get that big so quick when a dude from my high school did the exact same thing and went on to the NHL, he was tested for steroids atleast 5 times and passed every time. All your post is is speculation, that's it, there's not one iota of proof besides that.


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## Ape City

All I know is that if some sort of omnipotent being descended from the skies and said to me "Thou may wager thy life for a bet: if Brock Lesnar hath ever done a steroid all the riches in the world. But if he hath not, death!", I would totally do it. I wouldn't even think about it. I would bet my house he has done roids.


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## Ludinator

rabakill said:


> funny that you say he couldn't get that big so quick when a dude from my high school did the exact same thing and went on to the NHL, he was tested for steroids atleast 5 times and passed every time. All your post is is speculation, that's it, there's not one iota of proof besides that.


What he is saying is correct. You can't build that much muscle mass in such short time. Can a guy bulk 60lbs of weight on? Yes, but his body fat would increase which brocks didn't. It's a proven fact that you can't gain that much muscle mass in such s short time.


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## Canadian Psycho

Does it matter? Chances are he did use steroids at some point, but he was never caught while wrestling in WWF or fighting in UFC. All we have here is speculation, and for anyone who isn't a doctor to go online and say, 'It's a proven fact...' is laughable and nothing more. Forum goers think they know more than they actually do.


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## Voiceless

I didn't know they test in WWE. Why would they do that¿ It's not even a legit sport.


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## Spite

Voiceless said:


> I didn't know they test in WWE. Why would they do that¿ It's not even a legit sport.


Think it came about from the 90's when Hogan was massive (popular), turns out while Hogan was telling all the kids to say their prayers and take their vitamins, Hogan was taking some 'vitamins' of his own. So many people got busted for roids it tarnished the WWF's image.

So at the time WWF, started pushing the smaller guys like Bret Hart and Shaun Michaels. If you look at the WWE now compared to it in the early 90's you can see theres a less muscular guys now. In fact guys like Daniel Brian and CM punk have bodies akin to a regular persons.

So they have this 'Welness policy' which tests for drugs and roids in their stars, if any are caught they are put into rehabilitation.

But to me that doesn't explain how they have guys like this compete.


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## Spec0688

was Brock ever on steroids? no one knows and its funny that people get into arguments trying to prove it one way or another. 

The biggest case I see that benefits Lesnar is that for the hundreds of times that he's been tested, from high school,college, WWE, NFL, UFC and anything else, he hasn't even raised the alarm once. Never been caught with something in his body that shouldn't be there, or high levels or testosterone. Nothing.

You can point out that so and so have used this for years(Armstrong) and wasn't been caught in 7 years or whatever, but at the end of the day...he was caught. 

I believe I read that Brock was being tested at a very young age, when he was getting scholarships to college. So say they start testing him around the 18 year mark, thats 17 years of Brock Lesnar being tested one way or another. 

He either has to be the worlds smartest/best when it comes to cycling and masking the steroids, or he just simply doesn't do them. Think about it....17 years of random testing and not once and he ever triggered suspicion or an alarm go off about this guy.


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## Ape City

The problem is that you are assuming most steroid users get caught, and that cycling is hard. The ones who got caught screwed up and to be honest I believe a lot more people get away with it their entire career than those who get caught.


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## Jebber

Spec0688 said:


> was Brock ever on steroids? no one knows and its funny that people get into arguments trying to prove it one way or another.


outside of Brock - I would assume he knows for sure.


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## John8204

Spite said:


>


Al Snow explains Ryback (Ryan Reeves) must watch video


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## Spite

John8204 said:


> Al Snow explains Ryback (Ryan Reeves) must watch video


Yeah bodybuilders eat a lot.

I remember back in the day I used to train a lot and got in with some serious guys (steroid guys) in addition to the roids and supplements they'd consume a lot of food. One of them done diet plan for me and it was ridiculous. Breakfast was something like 8 scrambled eggs, but only 2 with the yolk, 3 slices of wholemeal bread, brown rice and **** knows what else. Then there were these micromeals every few hours that were in fact as much as I'd eat for lunch. Then massive meals for Lunch and Dinner. Plus training 3 times a day with sleep in between.

Screw that shit. I enjoy training but I wasn't gonna put myself through that.


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## Chileandude

Voiceless said:


> I didn't know they test in WWE. Why would they do that¿ It's not even a legit sport.


Health concerns.

Eddie Guerrero died very young from heart failure if I remember right, and it was linked to Alcohol and steroid abuse.

Chris Benoit went crazy and killed his family and himself, it was also linked to severe head trauma and steroid abuse.


There are countless other examples but those two died while under contract and active performers.


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## Killz

Yeah, a lot of wrestlers die young for whatever reason.


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## SideWays222

Killz said:


> Yeah, a lot of wrestlers die young for whatever reason.


steroids +all the punishment their bodies take + crazy traveling schedules they have + with that probably comes drugs.


----------



## Killz

Just found this website.... I had no Idea Test and Luna were dead?!

http://www.deadwrestlers.net/


----------



## JASONJRF

Killz said:


> Just found this website.... I had no Idea Test and Luna were dead?!
> 
> http://www.deadwrestlers.net/


OMG there are soo many I didnt know were dead that are. There seems to be a definite cooralation with wrestlers WWF/WWE dying earlier than they should.


----------



## Danm2501

SideWays222 said:


> steroids +all the punishment their bodies take + crazy traveling schedules they have + with that probably comes drugs.


A lot of drugs. Painkillers, coke, drink, a lot wrestlers take shit loads of drugs, and it's no wonder that their bodies fail on them.


----------



## Killz

JASONJRF said:


> OMG there are soo many I didnt know were dead that are. There seems to be a definite cooralation with wrestlers WWF/WWE dying earlier than they should.


The thing that struck me was that most (at a guess over 90%) dont even live to make 50.

These are guys who appear to be at peak physical condition.


----------



## Spite

SideWays222 said:


> steroids +all the punishment their bodies take + crazy traveling schedules they have + with that probably comes drugs.


Yes.

The problem is that despite public opinion low ranked wrestlers aren't paid much, even in the WWE. I remember reading an interview with Test (deceased) who was probably a mid-carder and he said he made 40k a year.

The way to make money is become popular or hated by the crowd (much like the UFC), if the WWE are pushing you (giving you good fights) then its a great oppertunity to make a name for yourself. During this period a wrestler cannot afford to be injured. Due to the nature of the sport injuries occur all the time, so wrestlers being pushed would take a cocktail of painkillers when injured to get through matches.

Combine this with steroids, alcohol and god knows what else and you have a recipe for disaster. Unfortunately some wrestlers are ticking time bombs.

It not just wrestler deaths that are the problem either, a lot of them are left with no money and permanent serious life deliberating injuries when their careers come to an end.


----------



## Liddellianenko

Killz said:


> The thing that struck me was that most (at a guess over 90%) dont even live to make 50.
> 
> These are guys who appear to be at peak physical condition.


Peak? They're steroid ridden wrecks and the orgs wellness policies are shams. When your CEO goes from this 









to









in his 40s and 50s, then you probably should know you're not exactly working for Whole Foods. 

I don't understand grown ups who watch that stuff really. It's pretty obvious it's just a bunch of steroid ridden soft porn over the top fake nonsense. I can see kids not seeing through it, but adults paying to watch that and put people into an early grave...eh. Even for kids they're probably not the best role models.

I can't understand a world where a murderous fake example of a "sport" like pro-wrestling has mainstream acceptance yet people run around banning MMA because it's too brutal and the martial artists who show 1000 times more respect and values than these guys are thugs.


----------



## Killz

That's why I said 'appear'. They look, on the surface to be be physically in top shape.


----------



## SideWays222

Killz said:


> Just found this website.... I had no Idea Test and Luna were dead?!
> 
> http://www.deadwrestlers.net/


I knew Test was dead because i remember listening to the Radio and i believe it was Howard Stern that said he used to hang out with Test and when they hang out with him they would go to places and pick fights with people and then they would run behind TEST and TEST would go up to them like "Do we have a problem here little man??" and everyone would back down haha.

I was not aware that the "Big Boss Man" was dead. I still remember when the Undertaker hung him from the cage. I also had no clue that Paul Bearer died in march this year. He was my favorite "Manager" type character that some wrestlers have. Most of them are extremely annoying but Paul Bearer had interesting story lines with Undertake/Kane and the URN he would carry.

I was also not aware that "Nancy Benoit" was a wrestler. I completely forgot what that Sick Piece of Shit Chris Benoit did to his family. I did not realize that he killed himself 2 days after he killed his family. Cause on that website it says that Nancy Benoit died on June 22nd while Chris died on June 24th. And i cant believe that people were trying to say it was due to Roid Rage that he killed his family. Thats like giving him an excuse when in reality he was just a sick ****. Normal people dont kill their kids just because they are Roiding.

Look at the house they lived in.










How can someone do something like that when they are living in such a awesome home and have kids, etc etc. It just kinda blows my mind how illogical and random the Human race is sometimes.

Also the Benoit house went on Sale and according to this website it went to Foreclosure. 






I wonder how that affected the price of the home and if people can just live normally in that house after such a public horrendous murder. I dont know if i would be able to do it. What about you?? Or anyone else for that matter. Could it being a nice home and getting a good deal be enough to live there or would it not bother you in the first place as-long as the flooring and stuff gets replaced. Or do you not even care about that??? Im really curious about this since i cant really make up my mind if i would be bothered by what happened if i lived there. I guess if i moved in with my family it would not bother me as much... but being in those rooms. *Yikes*.





> http://www.deadwrestlers.net/benoitcrimescene.html








Danm2501 said:


> A lot of drugs. Painkillers, coke, drink, a lot wrestlers take shit loads of drugs, and it's no wonder that their bodies fail on them.


Yeah especially the Pain Killers. The back/neck problems those guys got must be a pain in the ass to deal with especially in the mornings. Then their life being on the road for most of the road,working, gives them no time to recover. And they probably get pain killers like candy from their doctors,friends that i wouldnt be surprised if alot of those guys put House to shame when it comes to Pain Pills.







Spite said:


> Yes.
> 
> The problem is that despite public opinion low ranked wrestlers aren't paid much, even in the WWE. I remember reading an interview with Test (deceased) who was probably a mid-carder and he said he made 40k a year.
> 
> The way to make money is become popular or hated by the crowd (much like the UFC), if the WWE are pushing you (giving you good fights) then its a great oppertunity to make a name for yourself. During this period a wrestler cannot afford to be injured. Due to the nature of the sport injuries occur all the time, so wrestlers being pushed would take a cocktail of painkillers when injured to get through matches.
> 
> Combine this with steroids, alcohol and god knows what else and you have a recipe for disaster. Unfortunately some wrestlers are ticking time bombs.
> 
> It not just wrestler deaths that are the problem either, a lot of them are left with no money and permanent serious life deliberating injuries when their careers come to an end.


You know i never thought about how much Low Tier, Mid Tier wrestlers in the WWE/Impact get paid. Its something im going to have to look up cause now i am interested. I wonder if they pay by Salary or by how many matches you are scheduled yearly to do and how do they get raises do they have to wait for a new contract to sign??? Also do different type of matches pay differently??? Does being on a PPV Main Card pay much more then the Prelims (Like in the UFC). I guess there is alot of questions i am curios about when it comes to pay-scales for WWE. 


If 40k a year really is Low Tier wrestler pay that is still higher then what the UFC pays its low Tier guys. BUT Wrestlers work harder yearly for their company and are performing alot more often and constantly on the road so even for the Low Tier guys the amount of work they do 40k is nothing. UFC fighters only perform 3x yearly for the UFC the rest is them preparing in the gym. 

And people might disagree with me but i believe that in Pro-Wrestling you are alot more likely to get a serious injury then you are as a MMA fighter. I also believe you are alot more likely to cripple yourself. Its a really dangerous sport.... Land on your back wrong... throw someone wrong... move your neck on accident... so many things that you can do that can cause a serious injury to you or your opponent. So many wrestlers break their necks. I remember Stone Cold had his neck broken just because his head was sticking out an inch or two during a piledriver performed on him. Kurt Angle i think broke his neck multiple-times. And maybe i am wrong but didnt Brock Lesnar break his neck or something doing a front flip off the top rope??? (I could be wrong cause that happened alot later after i stopped watching wrestling)


----------



## Killz

I couldn't live in a house where a whole family was brutally murdered... It is a nice house though.


----------



## Liddellianenko

Killz said:


> I couldn't live in a house where a whole family was brutally murdered... It is a nice house though.


Meh if I got a cheap deal on it I would .... just needs some good mopping . Most palaces and castles have bloody histories anyway. Don't think I could convince the wife though :laugh:


----------



## SideWays222

Killz said:


> I couldn't live in a house where a whole family was brutally murdered... It is a nice house though.


Yeah it just is not worth it. It would be hard getting that bloody child murder, suicide, thought/scenery out of your head whenever you are there especially when trying to sleep. I would get horrible sleep and probably get constant nightmares. During the daytime it would probably also come in and out of your head. If the house was free i would probably just sell it rather then move in.


You know what i would be willing to do. Knocking the house down and building a new home on that very cheap land .
My mind would realize that its a completely different home at that point.


----------



## Killz

Just read the Wikipedia page on the Benoit killings... HOLY SHIT! 

They think his son was being injected with HGH because Benoit thought he was undersized due to some illness?

WTF?!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Benoit_double_murder_and_suicide


----------



## SideWays222

Killz said:


> Just read the Wikipedia page on the Benoit killings... HOLY SHIT!
> 
> They think his son was being injected with HGH because Benoit thought he was undersized due to some illness?
> 
> WTF?!!
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Benoit_double_murder_and_suicide


Yea the benoit killings are some ****ed up shit. Didnt he place a bible on them after he killed them??

Does it say whether he forced it on the child or maybe tried to do it sneakily somehow haha?? Or was the child completely willing. Not that it matters since its all ****ed up. Just trying to know the details.


----------



## Killz

Nah, it doesn't really go into specifics on the HGH.




> It was later alleged that Daniel had Fragile X syndrome, and that this was the cause of domestic problems in the Benoit family.[9] It was also suggested that needle marks in Daniel's arms were the result of growth hormones given to him because Benoit and his family considered him undersized due to Fragile X



His son was 7 years old.


----------



## SideWays222

Killz said:


> Nah, it doesn't really go into specifics on the HGH.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His son was 7 years old.


I love how it says "And his family"

Poor child seems that he had no one looking out for him. If his mom knew what Chris was doing and she did not protect him.... **** her.


----------



## Spite

SideWays222 said:


> And people might disagree with me but i believe that in Pro-Wrestling you are alot more likely to get a serious injury then you are as a MMA fighter. I also believe you are alot more likely to cripple yourself. Its a really dangerous sport.... Land on your back wrong... throw someone wrong... move your neck on accident... so many things that you can do that can cause a serious injury to you or your opponent. So many wrestlers break their necks. I remember Stone Cold had his neck broken just because his head was sticking out an inch or two during a piledriver performed on him. Kurt Angle i think broke his neck multiple-times. And maybe i am wrong but didnt Brock Lesnar break his neck or something doing a front flip off the top rope??? (I could be wrong cause that happened alot later after i stopped watching wrestling)


Wrestling is by far more dangerous than MMA. A lot of people think the guys only wrestle once a week but thats not the case, they do un-televised shows as well. Often they will wrestle 3 times a week. Then there is the constant travel, gym work, practice, interviews and promos. Wrestlers have very little down time; its not like they fight 3 times a year with 8 week training camps.

Heres some vids I found on legit in ring injuries.

Owen Hart vs Steve Austin - Austin was never the same after this.






Joey Mercury gets his face busted open






This clip is legendary. Prior to this mankind had been thrown off the top of cage through a table... which was planned. I've read Mick Foleys book (mankind) and he said what follows was not scripted and it knocked him out cold.






Sid Vicious breaks his leg - no for the faint hearted.






Randy Orton breaks his collar bone - you can see the actual bone sticking out towards the end of the clip






Jesse Sorenson breaks neck






Finally - heres Brocks botched shooting star press.


----------



## SideWays222

Yup agreed.


----------



## Killz

Im not watching any of those! (although ive seen a few of them before).

Wrestling injuries/mistakes make me cringe for some unknown reason.


----------



## SideWays222

Killz said:


> Im not watching any of those! (although ive seen a few of them before).
> 
> Wrestling injuries/mistakes make me cringe for some unknown reason.


I dont know if the reason is all that Unknown. haha :thumbsup:


----------



## Killz

SideWays222 said:


> I dont know if the reason is all that Unknown. haha :thumbsup:


I can watch almost any videos. Beheadings, Cyst extractions, Car crashes etc etc etc


Can't deal with wrestling accidents though hahaha


----------



## SideWays222

Killz said:


> I can watch almost any videos. Beheadings, Cyst extractions, Car crashes etc etc etc
> 
> 
> Can't deal with wrestling accidents though hahaha


Yea i know what you mean. I think its partly cause its something that can happen to anyone just goofing around with friends and also that they are showing tons of skin so the injuries are right in your face and it makes the human body look fragile.

And even though wrestlers are strangers its still a bit more personal then just some random person on a random video on the interwebs. 
Like i remember i had a hard time looking at what happened to Corey Hills leg (From TUF) and when id watch it my leg would start feeling fragile. But when i see random youtube clips of similar injuries they dont bother me at all. Hell iv seen some broken bones on TOSH.O and its laughing material haha.


----------



## Ape City

oh god the cory hill leg break was awful. its when he tries to put his leg down ... just makes me shiver.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## rabakill

Benoit's case was due to all the concussions, his brain was mush.


----------



## Ape City

and the cocaine and the pain killers and the sterpids and....

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## SideWays222

rabakill said:


> Benoit's case was due to all the concussions, his brain was mush.


He murdered his family due to his concussions??? Am i getting that right...


----------



## Killz

There was never a conclusion as to the cause. It's pure speculation.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Not so much the concussions as the onset of dementia that they spurred, which people who studied his brain came out and said there was clear signs of. Concussions might not cause a man to up and murder his entire family, but mental illness can and has on multiple occasions. But as someone said, it was never really fleshed out. The media was so focused on 'roid rage' that the entire case became more about steroid use in wrestling than the actual murders and/or deterioration of wrestlers' bodies. There ultimately ended up being no signs of substances or PEDs in Benoit's body, but hey... no one's ever accused journalists of relying on the facts. 

No one will ever really know what happened. I think it's safe to assume that it was a number of things - drug use, wear-and-tear, the onset of mental illness, and there were even rumours that Benoit's wife was leaving him.


----------



## hellholming

there's even speculation that Benoit was murdered himself because he owed money to some bad people. And some think that Kevin Sullivan killed him, because he said he would, since Benoit stole his wife.


----------



## SideWays222

benoit murdered his family because he was a sick piece of shit. It wasnt brought on by anything he had it in him since day 1. Il never accept excuses people pass on to murderers about why they did it. I feel that on some level that means that they arnt completely to blame and i just disagree with that (Unless we are talking about someone who was abused and stuff since a young age and was growing up like that. That can mess someones mentallity up to the point that they dont feel anymore). Concussions,steroids,etc etc. If he wasnt a sick disgusting psycho he would not have murdered his family. Especially since i read that he put them in their beds and put bibles next to them or something... thats not something someone does if they randomly snap. 

And he killed himself cause he is a coward. Dying is the cowards way out. If he was a real man he would have lived with his actions.




hellholming said:


> there's even speculation that Benoit was murdered himself because he owed money to some bad people. And some think that Kevin Sullivan killed him, because he said he would, since Benoit stole his wife.




That is interesting iv never heard that. It isnt like if it turned out that someone else killed his family and him and made it look like a suicide that i would be completely surprised. Since what Benoit did just on so many levels makes no sense.


----------



## dave-stjohn

SideWays222 said:


> benoit murdered his family because he was a sick piece of shit. It wasnt brought on by anything he had it in him since day 1. Il never accept excuses people pass on to murderers about why they did it. I feel that on some level that means that they arnt completely to blame and i just disagree with that (Unless we are talking about someone who was abused and stuff since a young age and was growing up like that. That can mess someones mentallity up to the point that they dont feel anymore). Concussions,steroids,etc etc. If he wasnt a sick disgusting psycho he would not have murdered his family. Especially since i read that he put them in their beds and put bibles next to them or something... thats not something someone does if they randomly snap.
> 
> And he killed himself cause he is a coward. Dying is the cowards way out. If he was a real man he would have lived with his actions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is interesting iv never heard that. It isnt like if it turned out that someone else killed his family and him and made it look like a suicide that i would be completely surprised. Since what Benoit did just on so many levels makes no sense.


It's been proven that there any number of mental issues that a person has no control over getting or not getting. My wife does home health care and has had clients with varying degrees of dementia from onset to full blown this person is crackers and has no link to the real world at all and will do and say things no sane person would dream of. I find it interesting that you'll give a free pass to people who were abused as children. I was sexually abused by my step-mom for years, my dad was a grade A prick who loved beating the piss out of every women he had a relationship with. My step-dad used to use my brother and I as his personal punching bag and for his amusement he used to do all sorts of sick games just to get a laugh. Yet, I've never hit a woman, I haven't ever molested my daughters or anyone for that matter and that's because at a certain point in your life you can't keep blaming your childhood, you have to take charge of your life and if you don't, then the ****ers win. Now if someone like me went postal because he saw someone molesting a child and then beat the guy to death, then yes I should get a free pass a medal and free Krispy Kreme for life. Sorry I got sidetracked, now back to the dementia, if someone in their late 80's who had suffered years of dementia did to their family what Benoit did to his, would you just chalk it up to their mushed brain?


----------



## Canadian Psycho

SideWays222 said:


> benoit murdered his family because he was a sick piece of shit. It wasnt brought on by anything he had it in him since day 1. Il never accept excuses people pass on to murderers about why they did it. I feel that on some level that means that they arnt completely to blame and i just disagree with that (Unless we are talking about someone who was abused and stuff since a young age and was growing up like that. That can mess someones mentallity up to the point that they dont feel anymore). Concussions,steroids,etc etc. If he wasnt a sick disgusting psycho he would not have murdered his family. Especially since i read that he put them in their beds and put bibles next to them or something... thats not something someone does if they randomly snap.
> 
> And he killed himself cause he is a coward. Dying is the cowards way out. If he was a real man he would have lived with his actions.
> 
> That is interesting iv never heard that. It isnt like if it turned out that someone else killed his family and him and made it look like a suicide that i would be completely surprised. Since what Benoit did just on so many levels makes no sense.


Whatever you say. I'll not question your doctorate in medical science :laugh:


----------



## SideWays222

dave-stjohn said:


> It's been proven that there any number of mental issues that a person has no control over getting or not getting. My wife does home health care and has had clients with varying degrees of dementia from onset to full blown this person is crackers and has no link to the real world at all and will do and say things no sane person would dream of. I find it interesting that you'll give a free pass to people who were abused as children. I was sexually abused by my step-mom for years, my dad was a grade A prick who loved beating the piss out of every women he had a relationship with. My step-dad used to use my brother and I as his personal punching bag and for his amusement he used to do all sorts of sick games just to get a laugh. Yet, I've never hit a woman, I haven't ever molested my daughters or anyone for that matter and that's because at a certain point in your life you can't keep blaming your childhood, you have to take charge of your life and if you don't, then the ****ers win. Now if someone like me went postal because he saw someone molesting a child and then beat the guy to death, then yes I should get a free pass a medal and free Krispy Kreme for life. Sorry I got sidetracked, now back to the dementia, if someone in their late 80's who had suffered years of dementia did to their family what Benoit did to his, would you just chalk it up to their mushed brain?


First find a statistic for me. How many people with Dementia do this.



> Wrestling Entertainment (WWE) professional wrestler Chris Benoit killed his wife, Nancy Benoit, strangled his seven-year-old son, Daniel, and subsequently committed suicide by hanging. Autopsy results showed that Benoit first murdered his wife, Nancy.


He did it because he was a sick bastard.

And no im not giving a free pass to someone who was abused (Maybe i didnt word it correctly). If you are abused at a young age and then you chose to abuse or kill people when you grow up you are just as a sick piece of shit as Benoit is imo. No one took away your free will. But i do believe that had they maybe not had such a traumatic child hood that their brain would have maybe been changed for the better (Maybe not... maybe they would have been ****ed up either way.) But no matter what you have to take responsibility for your own actions. 

And its not even a sure thing that Benoit had Dementia. Its just a theory.



Canadian Psycho said:


> Whatever you say. I'll not question your doctorate in medical science :laugh:



Good.

And i wont question the fact that you believe that science can actually explain why someone killed their family and then themselves.

Not to mention that this is a subject that is mostly made up of speculation and beliefs. As far as i know there is tons of people who get concussions and dont murder their family (I had two concussions) and tons of people who have dementia and dont kill their families. But Benoit killed his family because of a concussion right??? He lost his free will and a demon took his body over like in supernatural right??? 

Oh and there are scientists with degrees and all that stuff that believe that people that are killers are born with it and one day we will be able to identify that gene. 

But no sorry you believe that this is a subject that has no room for opinions. Concussion = killing your family. Dementia = Killing your family. Roid Rage = Killing your family.
So yea i wont argue any of that.

And btw... you shouldnt question it because i was pointing out what i believe. And in a subject such as this that is what its all about. Even your Doctors cant be 100% sure.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

My God you do get yourself worked up. 

Listen - I've never said that mental illness is reason to excuse a person's actions. I'm actually of the mind that murderers, rapists, and criminals should be punished regardless of their state of mind. But if you honestly believe that people's actions can't be influenced by mental illness that comes on later in life, you're a nitwit and not worth discussing this with. Because frankly, your lack of knowledge on this subject is more than apparent. 

Mental illness can cause people to do things they'd not otherwise do. This isn't speculation or something doctors are unsure of :laugh:

There is a famous cause where a man was deprived of sleep for days, which affected him mentally, and resulted in a chronic sleepwalking condition - one night, while sleep walking, he murdered his family. Would you say he was 'born evil' and always 'had it in him' to murder and maim others? Give your head a shake. Excusable or not, sickness influences people.


----------



## Ape City

SideWays222 said:


> And i wont question the fact that you believe that science can actually explain why someone killed their family and then themselves.


No one is pointing to one single factor in the Benoit killings either. The point is you cannot ignore the influence years of drug abuse, multiple instances of head trauma, and a very serious mental illness could have had over his ability to make rational decisions. It's possible he would have murdered his family regardless, but isn't it far more likely that all of these factors contributed to some degree?

also:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3560015&page=1#.Ub4KLPnIVDs



> The tests, conducted by Julian Bailes of the Sports Legacy Institute, show that Benoit's brain was so severely damaged it resembled the brain of an 85-year-old Alzheimer's patient.





> Bailes and his research team had also analyzed the brains of former NFL players such as Andre Waters and Terry Long, who both committed suicide. Bailes and his colleagues theorize that repeated concussions can lead to dementia, which can contribute to severe behavioral problems.
> 
> "There is a constant theme in the failure of their personal lives, their business lives, depression and then ultimately suicide," Bailes said.





> Bailes and his research team took samples from Benoit's brain postmortem and compared these microscopic brain scans to those of a healthy brain.
> 
> They found that Benoit's brain showed an advanced form of dementia that appears on the brain scan as brown clumps or tangles. These brown spots are actually dead brain cells, killed off as a result of head trauma, said Bailes.
> 
> In Benoit's case, the damage was found in every section of the brain — all four lobes and deep into the brain stem.
> 
> "It was extensive throughout Chris' brain," Bailes said. "This is something you should never see in a 40-year-old."
> 
> The damage is proof, Bailes said, that Benoit suffered multiple, probably chronic, concussions over the course of many years.
> 
> Benoit, in fact, told friends he had suffered "more concussions than he could count."
> 
> Benoit's brain showed the same kind of damage Bailes and his team found in four retired NFL players who also suffered multiple concussions and later sank into deep depressions and harmed themselves or others.


----------



## SideWays222

Ape City said:


> No one is pointing to one single factor in the Benoit killings either. The point is you cannot ignore the influence years of drug abuse, multiple instances of head trauma, and a very serious mental illness could have had over his ability to make rational decisions. It's possible he would have murdered his family regardless, but isn't it far more likely that all of these factors contributed to some degree?
> 
> also:
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3560015&page=1#.Ub4KLPnIVDs



How can you prove that me or you or other people on this forum would have gone and killed our families if we had those injuries. I read comments from Benoits friends that just a couple days prior they were with him and he was acting normal and happy. So he was still able to correspond with people and make choices. There are people out there with worse brain injuries then Chris Benoit and they dont kill there families. Chris Benoit made his decision to take the life of his family and he took away their right to have any types of choices. I feel no pity for him and if hell is real i hope he burns for eternity. 



> also:


Iv read all of that and more.

Other wrestlers also have a crap load of concussions. So do boxers. Im sure alot of them have brain damage to a certain extent. 
Having those injuries/damage does not force your hands to be put around your childrens throat and choke the life out of them. What Benoit did is on him.

Thats my opinion and thats exactly what this subject is about. I dont care what you believe. You can go on and think that Benoits injuries caused him to have no free will and forced him to kill his children and then himself. Or whatever it is that you believe.

Im not trying to convince anyone to change their mind. I do believe its a travesty that people want to make excuses for what Benoit did though. But thats what free will is all about. Being able to do what you choose.


----------



## Ape City

SideWays222 said:


> How can you prove that me or you or other people on this forum would have gone and killed our families if we had those injuries. I read comments from Benoits friends that just a couple days prior they were with him and he was acting normal and happy. So he was still able to correspond with people and make choices. There are people out there with worse brain injuries then Chris Benoit and they dont kill there families. Chris Benoit made his decision to take the life of his family and he took away their right to have any types of choices. I feel no pity for him and if hell is real i hope he burns for eternity.
> 
> 
> 
> Iv read all of that and more.
> 
> Other wrestlers also have a crap load of concussions. So do boxers. Im sure alot of them have brain damage to a certain extent.
> Having those injuries/damage does not force your hands to be put around your childrens throat and choke the life out of them. What Benoit did is on him.
> 
> Thats my opinion and thats exactly what this subject is about. I dont care what you believe. You can go on and think that Benoits injuries caused him to have no free will and forced him to kill his children and then himself. Or whatever it is that you believe.
> 
> Im not trying to convince anyone to change their mind. I do believe its a travesty that people want to make excuses for what Benoit did though. But thats what free will is all about. Being able to do what you choose.



I don't understand why you see a connection between being mentally imbalanced and "making excuses" for Benoit. It isn't n excuse. Benoit is still 100% to blame. Benoit still had "free will" as you put it. Benoit was just being influenced by factors such as the drugs, injuries, and possible dementia. That doesn't make him any less of a sick ****. Those are just some of the things that most likely made him a sick ****. I'm not sure why you think explaining someones personality through their behaviors and biological health is a myth.

You make it sound like Benoit just woke up one day and calmly calculated murdering his family. For no reason. Not because he was depressed. Not because he was suffering from a mental illness. Not because of any imbalance he was born with. Not because of massive loss of brain activity. 

Think of it this way sideways: 2 guys go out on the town and get in bar fights. Guy A has been drinking and snorting coke all night and the Guy B just had a few beers. assuming they both have identical personalities it more likely that Guy A will do something stupid in the fight, hurting himself or perhaps being too agressive and beating the crap out of the opponent. Guy B, not being influenced by drugs that lower your inhibitions and also give you superman like confidence and aggression, is less likely to lose his cool.

Of course it is possible that Guy B loses his cool and kills the opponent and Guy A stays calm, but which is more likely?

Is it possible Benoit would have killed his whole family if he was a normal healthy individual? Of course! Is it likely that the serious health problems he had mentally and physically contributed? Very.


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## SideWays222

Ape City said:


> Think of it this way sideways: 2 guys go out on the town and get in bar fights. Guy A has been drinking and snorting coke all night and the Guy B just had a few beers. assuming they both have identical personalities it more likely that Guy A will do something stupid in the fight, hurting himself or perhaps being too agressive and beating the crap out of the opponent. Guy B, not being influenced by drugs that lower your inhibitions and also give you superman like confidence and aggression, is less likely to lose his cool.


But Guy A is completely to blame for his actions. Thats his personality that made him do that just the alcohol and coke and what not brought it out to the surface and made him not care about the consequences. Guy A still had a choice to not do any of that stuff be he chose to do it because that is who he is. He could have went out and gave all his money away to the homeless or something but he didnt instead he went out and beat the shit out of someone. Just like i believe Benoit is who he is and that is a sick twisted piece of shit with the brain injuries or without it. I wont deny that the Brain Injuries maybe made it easier for him to go through with what he did. But he is the one that still made the decision to go through with it and he is a sick piece of shit for it. I dont have any pity for him. If he wasnt a twisted **** to begin with then he would not have done what he did with concussions or not.

Iv gotten drunk and done coke and all that stuff. Hell maybe iv hooked up with a fat girl or gotten in a fight. But i did those things because thats EXACTLY what i wanted to do. I dont blame the coke or alcohol. They just gave me courage and made me not care about the embarrassment il have to deal with the next day. Hooking up with girls that arnt so attractive or getting in a fight (Thats kinda rare though) is something that i am willing to do maybe even like to do but i usually dont because i dont want to have my friends find out lol. Its not like those are things i would never consider doing had i not been drunk.


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## Canadian Psycho

Drug and alcohol consumption aren't comparable to mental illness. Hence why intoxication generally isn't a criminal defence.


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## SideWays222

Canadian Psycho said:


> Drug and alcohol consumption aren't comparable to mental illness. Hence why intoxication generally isn't a criminal defence.


I was just responding to his post. I was thinking about making a douchey post like you but i was smart enough to realize the point he was trying to get across so i went with it. Im sure he realizes they are not the same thing either.


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## Canadian Psycho

It wasn't a 'douchey' post - it was an improper comparison, and I didn't attack Ape's use of it in some outlandish way. And you can attack me and my level of intelligence all you like, but I'm not the one in here insinuating that mental illness has no impact on a person's actions. You invite reactions like mine when you make comments like that. 

What you 'believe' is irrelevant. I believe that men and women can fly by flapping their arms, but science and knowledge of the human anatomy that says otherwise might just know better than I do.


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## SideWays222

Canadian Psycho said:


> It wasn't a 'douchey' post - it was an improper comparison, and I didn't attack Ape's use of it in some outlandish way. And you can attack me and my level of intelligence all you like, but I'm not the one in here insinuating that mental illness has no impact on a person's actions. You invite reactions like mine when you make comments like that.
> 
> What you 'believe' is irrelevant. I believe that men and women can fly by flapping their arms, but science and knowledge of the human anatomy that says otherwise might just know better than I do.



You dont even seem to understand what you are reading so why do you keep replying?? Science cant prove that Benoit killed his family cause he had too many concussions or that everybody would have killed their families had they been in Benoits shoes. Its impossible to prove why someone killed their whole family and then themselves by looking at a test tube. If you dont agree with that statement then just stop responding to me because you missed the whole point of every reply. Its not even close to comparing it to a man and women flying by flapping their arms when its obviously physically impossible. When you make statements like that its obvious your brain cant comprehend this discussion at all and you invite replies that insult your intelligence.

If everybody with a brain injury or concussion went around killing people and their own children and wife then this world would be a seriously ****ed up place.


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## Ape City

It was supposed to be a metaphor for being mentally ill.



SideWays222 said:


> But Guy A is completely to blame for his actions. Thats his personality that made him do that just the alcohol and coke and what not brought it out to the surface and made him not care about the consequences. Guy A still had a choice to not do any of that stuff be he chose to do it because that is who he is. He could have went out and gave all his money away to the homeless or something but he didnt instead he went out and beat the shit out of someone. Just like i believe Benoit is who he is and that is a sick twisted piece of shit with the brain injuries or without it. I wont deny that the Brain Injuries maybe made it easier for him to go through with what he did. But he is the one that still made the decision to go through with it and he is a sick piece of shit for it. I dont have any pity for him. If he wasnt a twisted **** to begin with then he would not have done what he did with concussions or not.
> 
> Iv gotten drunk and done coke and all that stuff. Hell maybe iv hooked up with a fat girl or gotten in a fight. But i did those things because thats EXACTLY what i wanted to do. I dont blame the coke or alcohol. They just gave me courage and made me not care about the embarrassment il have to deal with the next day. Hooking up with girls that arnt so attractive or getting in a fight (Thats kinda rare though) is something that i am willing to do maybe even like to do but i usually dont because i dont want to have my friends find out lol. Its not like those are things i would never consider doing had i not been drunk.


Well then we kind of agree. All of those factors we discussed in Benoits life are most likely what brought this to the the surface.

Just imagine always being behind that haze you felt when you got in a fight or slept with that fat chick. That's probably how Benoit felt.


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## SideWays222

Ape City said:


> It was supposed to be a metaphor for being mentally ill.
> 
> 
> 
> Well then we kind of agree. All of those factors we discussed in Benoits life are most likely what brought this to the the surface.
> 
> Just imagine always being behind that haze you felt when you got in a fight or slept with that fat chick. That's probably how Benoit felt.


Yeah after i read your last post i felt that we didnt disagree all that much. Maybe to what extent it plays a role and just wording it differently. We both agree that there was something twisted with Benoit that goes way beyond a concussion. 

Spite in a rep told me that Benoit used a Crippler Cross Face to kill his son. And then i searched it and found he was correct. 










Thats how the twisted bastard killed his own son.... Maybe he was sick of people saying wrestling is fake. :dunno: (Too Soon?)

Also



> Professional wrestler Chris Benoit met his personal physician hours before he allegedly killed his wife and son before hanging himself in his basement, the doctor said.
> 
> *"He was in my office on Friday to stop by just to see my staff," said Dr Phil Astin of metro Atlanta. "He certainly didn't show any signs of any distress or rage or anything."*
> 
> *Authorities say Benoit strangled his wife, suffocated his seven-year-old son Daniel and placed a Bible next to their bodies before hanging himself with a weight-machine pulley over the weekend*


Sounds to me like he thought it out and wasnt just something he did in a moments notice.


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## JASONJRF

SideWays222 said:


> benoit murdered his family because he was a sick piece of shit. It wasnt brought on by anything he had it in him since day 1. Il never accept excuses people pass on to murderers about why they did it. I feel that on some level that means that they arnt completely to blame and i just disagree with that (Unless we are talking about someone who was abused and stuff since a young age and was growing up like that. That can mess someones mentallity up to the point that they dont feel anymore). Concussions,steroids,etc etc. If he wasnt a sick disgusting psycho he would not have murdered his family. Especially since i read that he put them in their beds and put bibles next to them or something... thats not something someone does if they randomly snap.
> 
> And he killed himself cause he is a coward. Dying is the cowards way out. If he was a real man he would have lived with his actions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is interesting iv never heard that. It isnt like if it turned out that someone else killed his family and him and made it look like a suicide that i would be completely surprised. Since what Benoit did just on so many levels makes no sense.


Dude your contradicting yourself. just because someone was abused yes it damages but they can grow up to be great people you cant use that as an excuse anymore than brain trauma and early onset dementia.


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## SideWays222

JASONJRF said:


> Dude your contradicting yourself. just because someone was abused yes it damages but they can grow up to be great people you cant use that as an excuse anymore than brain trauma and early onset dementia.


Read the thread not just 1 post because you are wrong.


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## amoosenamedhank

SideWays222 said:


> Spite in a rep told me that Benoit used a Crippler Cross Face to kill his son. And then i searched it and found he was correct.


If this is true, I hope there's a special place in Hell for him. I don't care about his mental illness to be honest with you. 

To approach your child who fully trusts you and believes that you always have their best interest in mind.... then you just choke the life out of them.... the thought of it makes me physically ill.


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## rabakill

amoosenamedhank said:


> If this is true, I hope there's a special place in Hell for him. I don't care about his mental illness to be honest with you.
> 
> To approach your child who fully trusts you and believes that you always have their best interest in mind.... then you just choke the life out of them.... the thought of it makes me physically ill.


rightfully so, when an autopsy says his brain was severely damaged from wrestling it's likely his grasp on reality slipped and he lost control of his behavior. Violent and irrational behavior from brain damage is well studied. It's a shame to see so many people with such a fundamental misunderstanding of why a guy like Benoit would do such a thing. 

I suggest watching the documentary "Head Games" partially produced by a former pro wrestler that takes a scientific approach to how brain damage in sports effects behavior.

The brain damage in mma is a small fraction of what happens in other sports, unless you train like a maniac like Shogun.


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## amoosenamedhank

rabakill said:


> rightfully so, when an autopsy says his brain was severely damaged from wrestling it's likely his grasp on reality slipped and he lost control of his behavior. Violent and irrational behavior from brain damage is well studied. It's a shame to see so many people with such a fundamental misunderstanding of why a guy like Benoit would do such a thing.
> 
> I suggest watching the documentary "Head Games" partially produced by a former pro wrestler that takes a scientific approach to how brain damage in sports effects behavior.
> 
> The brain damage in mma is a small fraction of what happens in other sports, unless you train like a maniac like Shogun.


The only truly innocent individual was the child... Who was murdered by strangulation...

Do you have children? If you do, stop and think if a mental ill man murdered your child. You're simply going to be alright with that because of his condition? Of course you're not.

It's sad that people have these illnesses but that doesn't help excuse their actions in the eyes of those affected by them.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Ape City

Why on earth are people equating mental illness with an excuse. It isn't an excuse. It is a cause and effect explanation. It does not alleviate the person of guilt nor does it excuse the behavior in any way shape or form.

No one in this thread is relieving Benoit of any blame whatsoever. They are simply pointing out the probable cause of his incredibly irrational actions.


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