# Lesnar training for Shane, short vid



## oordeel (Apr 14, 2007)

i haven't seen this posted, so here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Evyox0Rsu8&feature=player_embedded#t=118


----------



## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

I see Brock taking this fight pretty easily, and not simply because of this video. I just see Brock as the better athlete, and he probably has a great game plan training with Greg Nelson. I don't really see Carwin being able to nullify Brock's wrestling either. I think there will be too much of a gap in skill and athleticism.


----------



## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

Servatose said:


> I see Brock taking this fight pretty easily, and not simply because of this video. I just see Brock as the better athlete, and he probably has a great game plan training with Greg Nelson. I don't really see Carwin being able to nullify Brock's wrestling either. I think there will be too much of a gap in skill and athleticism.


Agreed.


I felt bad for that guy holding the pad for Brock.


----------



## oordeel (Apr 14, 2007)

I agree. I'm neutral on Brock as far as being a fan goes, but I think the fight will be over early in the second (Brock by GnP).
I do hope Shane does well though.


----------



## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

I wish they had the badass song from the karate kid playing during this video. "your the best, around!! No ones gonna ever keep ya down!!". For some reason I see Brock listening to music like that to get psyched up.


----------



## LCRaiders (Apr 7, 2008)

Brock is a beast and he will walk all over Carwin, sad to say 

I don't like Lesnar at all but he keeps getting better and better. Now that's scary..


----------



## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

I hate to say it but the HW division is soon going to feel exactly what 170 and 185 feel... second place is pretty much the best you're going to get.


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Damn, "like rolling down Everest in a barrell" and that was with a pad and larger gloves.

Sorry Carwin but I hope you are ready to get beat down.

It is absolutely frightning how such a large guy like Brock can move like that.


----------



## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

There's always Fedor.


----------



## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

Good find to the OP.

Nice to see him training, but nothing really impressive or remotely objective about it.

Brock is more explosive than Carwin and a lot of other things are roughly equal. Would laugh my butt off if someone pulled a sub though!


----------



## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

leifdawg said:


> I felt bad for that guy holding the pad for Brock.


Same, first thing I thought :laugh: Man Brock is insane, and he is right when he states he isn't going to get in much better shape so he can mostly focus on keeping it and the technical aspects.


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

michelangelo said:


> There's always Fedor.


Honestly I don't think that Fedor could stop Lesnar. He has never fought a fighter like Brock before. Sure he has fought people as large as him but they all lacked skill and were slow/unorthodox. Lesnar is huge, has tremendous wrestling ability and amazing speed. I don't see Fedor being able to keep the fight standing and I think Lesnar would keep Fedor from getting anything going on the ground just like he did against Mir.


----------



## El Greco (Sep 22, 2009)

420atalon said:


> Honestly I don't think that Fedor could stop Lesnar. He has never fought a fighter like Brock before. Sure he has fought people as large as him but they all lacked skill and were slow/unorthodox. Lesnar is huge, has tremendous wrestling ability and amazing speed. I don't see Fedor being able to keep the fight standing and I think Lesnar would keep Fedor from getting anything going on the ground just like he did against Mir.


I wouldn't say Sylvia and Choi lack skill, especially not the pre-surgery Choi and the motivated, in-shape Sylvia. I see Fedor submitting Lesnar from his back or Lesnar gassing like he did against Couture, and eventually losing by TKO.


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

El Greco said:


> I wouldn't say Sylvia and Choi lack skill, especially not the pre-surgery Choi and the motivated, in-shape Sylvia. I see Fedor submitting Lesnar from his back or Lesnar gassing like he did against Couture, and eventually losing by TKO.


Sylvia isn't as large as Brock and he doesn't use his size to his advantage in fights. Choi is huge but doesn't have half the skill or athleticism as Lesnar, not even comparable, Lesnar isn't going to leave his arm hanging out twice while Fedor tries to climb it for an armbar... Neither of those fighters has 1/4 the wrestling ability of Lesnar, that wrestling ability along with Lesnar's size and speed is what makes him a formidable opponent.


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

El Greco said:


> I wouldn't say Sylvia and Choi lack skill, especially not the pre-surgery Choi and the motivated, in-shape Sylvia. I see Fedor submitting Lesnar from his back or Lesnar gassing like he did against Couture, and eventually losing by TKO.


Lesnar gassing vs Couture? Really? I cant say I noticed anything like that. We've seen enough of Lesnars training to know his cardio is not a problem. Taking deep breaths between rounds does not equal gassing.


----------



## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

HERP DERP Lesnar Roids HERP DERP He only wins fights because he is big HURRRRRRRRRRR


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

I'm rooting for Brock to win, but I don't see how this vid proves anything one way or another. It's pretty standard hammerfist practice, one of the most basic and low effort things in all of MMA. In fact it's so basic, sometimes I wonder why people even bother practicing it at all, any retard can throw hammerfists from mount. This doesn't show any of his wrestling, control, grappling, striking, cardio or anything to have Carwin worried any more than he already should be.


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> I'm rooting for Brock to win, but I don't see how this vid proves anything one way or another. It's pretty standard hammerfist practice, one of the most basic and low effort things in all of MMA. In fact it's so basic, sometimes I wonder why people even bother practicing it at all, any retard can throw hammerfists from mount. This doesn't show any of his wrestling, control, grappling, striking, cardio or anything to have Carwin worried any more than he already should be.


I suspect, looking at the vid again, that Lesnar is exhausted at the point they start doing the hammerfists. I could see why doing this at the end of a long session could be beneficial. If we are deep into the championship rounds and Lesnar gets an opening, he needs to know that he can pound on the guy and finish the fight.


----------



## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

I said something about Brock when he first announced he was going to be fighting in MMA. Something along the lines of "if this guy gains any kind of technical ability, he is going to be a monster." It mirrors things I've said about Bob Sapp but we all know what happened there. Brock is a scary matchup and just getting a bigger guy isn't going to get the job done. He is technically skilled and so fast it's unfair.

Still I don't count Carwin out. In this sport a puncher's chance can take you a far way. 

I believe Brock can be beaten though, actually I don't think it's THAT difficult to beat him. It's been shown he doesn't have the kind of composure that a lot of fighters have. He seems to be easily frustrated and his standup can be taken advantage of. His wrestling is being vastly overrated. I'm not saying he's a bad wrestler, but if he couldn't take Randy down (he only managed 1 takedown out of how many attempts?) with a 60 pound advantage and actually BE taken down by a fighter with that same weight disadvantage. That just means he isn't nearly as technically skilled a wrestler as some believe he is. 

He's learning the submission game which is very important for him, but what happens when a good striker start putting inside legkicks into him. What happens when he fights a guy who can stuff his takedown? What happens when he is hurt and his opponent locks in an anaconda/d'arce/guillotine? 

I think Lesnar's mental game could be a hindrance to him. If he comes across a guy he can't bully around and is forced to fight someone else's game, where does his mind go? I'm not saying that this is a definite. This isn't even my prediction for this particular fight. I'm just saying what happens?

I say it's a 60/40 chance Brock wins by TKO in round 3 or Carwin get s round 1 KO. If the fight gets to Round 4 I expect both to be gassed and Brock to grind a unanimous decision.


----------



## T.Bone (Oct 15, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> I'm rooting for Brock to win, but I don't see how this vid proves anything one way or another. It's pretty standard hammerfist practice, one of the most basic and low effort things in all of MMA. In fact it's so basic, sometimes I wonder why people even bother practicing it at all, any retard can throw hammerfists from mount. This doesn't show any of his wrestling, control, grappling, striking, cardio or anything to have Carwin worried any more than he already should be.


I'm with you there. I really hate hammer-fists for some reason. there's no doubt they work for Lesnar because of his huge hands but, meh, I'd rather see some elbows.


----------



## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> I'm rooting for Brock to win, but I don't see how this vid proves anything one way or another. It's pretty standard hammerfist practice, one of the most basic and low effort things in all of MMA. In fact it's so basic, sometimes I wonder why people even bother practicing it at all, any retard can throw hammerfists from mount. This doesn't show any of his wrestling, control, grappling, striking, cardio or anything to have Carwin worried any more than he already should be.


How about this video? It's pre Mir II and they basically predict what's going to happen. You can even see that certain GnP position that Mir ended up in all the times.


----------



## lagmonkey (Apr 23, 2008)

After going back and rewatching (is that a word?) Carwin's last couple of fights I have to wonder if he is going to change his style at all when facing Lesnar. Looks to me like Carwin leaves his chin hanging out in the breeze a lot and against a beast like Lesnar this could cost him big time.

I'll be cheering for Carwin but I suspect the fight will end via Brock-out in the first round.


----------



## DropKicker (Apr 16, 2009)

I was just looking at this video of him training for Carwin. And what do you know he's practicing ground & pound using those a thousand little hammerfists he put on Frank Mir. I think Randy mentioned it once about if Brock would just picked his shots better & throw one big one to end it, he'd save a lot more energy in case the fight didn't end so quick. And against another big guy like himself in Carwin, I really think Carwin would be able to shrug off these lil hammer fists. Anyone else see Brock's ground & pound still kind of green in the technical aspect of it??


----------



## Breadfan (Jan 3, 2008)

his sparring partner mentioned how good his Jitsu was... is he serious? I haven't seen it, so I can't argue, but I feel like Brock's jitz is sub par at best


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

michelangelo said:


> There's always Fedor.


I'm not saying Brock would beat Fedor, but I would love to see Brock get Fedor down. Fedor likes to give up positions on the ground. Lesnar is so big and strong that he may not be able to sweep him or stand back up.


----------



## DahStoryTella (Jul 11, 2009)

Servatose said:


> I see Brock taking this fight pretty easily, and not simply because of this video. I just see Brock as the better athlete, and he probably has a great game plan training with Greg Nelson. I don't really see Carwin being able to nullify Brock's wrestling either. I think there will be too much of a gap in skill and athleticism.


co-signed, and i don't think lesnar is going to try and stand with carwin.


----------



## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

DropKicker said:


> was just looking at this video of him training for Carwin. And what do you know he's practicing ground & pound using those a thousand little hammerfists he put on Frank Mir. I think Randy mentioned it once about if Brock would just picked his shots better & throw one big one to end it, he'd save a lot more energy in case the fight didn't end so quick. And against another big guy like himself in Carwin, I really think Carwin would be able to shrug off these lil hammer fists. Anyone else see Brock's ground & pound still kind of green in the technical aspect of it??
> __________________


Umm he picked his shots very well in the Mir fight.

Also IMO the shots from that video were an endurance drill rather than a technique/strategy drill.


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> How about this video? It's pre Mir II and they basically predict what's going to happen. You can even see that certain GnP position that Mir ended up in all the times.


Now THAT is a scary vid, repped. You can really see how quickly he's absorbed sub-defence and standup and combined it with his huge size, wrestling, and athleticism.


----------



## tecnotut (Jan 2, 2007)

To beat Brock, one has to outstrike Brock. Shane can definitely do that. But if he follows Mir strategy of fighting on the ground, then it'll be a quick victory for Brock.



Breadfan said:


> his sparring partner mentioned how good his Jitsu was... is he serious? I haven't seen it, so I can't argue, but I feel like Brock's jitz is sub par at best


You mean the same Brock who submitted Gonzaga in 45 seconds?


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Whoa, what's this about Brock subbing Gonzaga in 45 seconds?

Good lord, Brock's a prodigy.


----------



## tecnotut (Jan 2, 2007)

Damone said:


> Whoa, what's this about Brock subbing Gonzaga in 45 seconds?
> 
> Good lord, Brock's a prodigy.


Maybe he is, and maybe he isn't. Who knows. What I know is that his submission skills aren't "sub par" if he can submit Gonzaga in 45 seconds. And no, I'm not a Brock nut-hugger. I despise the man.


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Damone said:


> Whoa, what's this about Brock subbing Gonzaga in 45 seconds?
> 
> Good lord, Brock's a prodigy.


That's a false rumor, his campmate Tuchsherer denies it, and the guy in the pic they showed looks nothing like Gonzaga. There ain't no way in hell a guy with 2 years jitz is gonna sub an ADCC master like Gonzaga... survive his subs maybe, but now way can he sub him, exhibition or no.


----------



## Admz (Sep 15, 2009)

I believe both men are very untested in this game.

Brock easily swept through Herring (gatekeeper for a very long time now), Couture (very old), and Mir (decent, but not that good.)

Carwin has also had a cakewalk destroying many B-level & C-level fighters (with the exception of Ganzaga, whom I rank high-B/low-A).

I think it can easily be said that *Lesnar would have dominated Carwin's past opponents, and vice-versa.*

Now both men will have to pick on someone their own size. We will finally see which man has been "over-hyped" and which man is the real deal. I don't believe Brock will have it as easy as most people are saying. Sure, Carwin isn't a wrestling guru, but he's also no Bob Sapp.

Personally I'm rooting for Shane Carwin on this one. I also tried to make this post as unbiased as I possibly can. I hate Brock Lesnar, but I still believe he earned the belt he wears. This will be a hell of a fight, and I can't wait.


----------



## Hawk (Aug 3, 2009)

Yep
Agreed


leifdawg said:


> Agreed.
> 
> 
> I felt bad for that guy holding the pad for Brock.


----------



## Tomislav III (Aug 22, 2009)

Admz said:


> I believe both men are very untested in this game.
> 
> Brock easily swept through Herring (gatekeeper for a very long time now), Couture (very old), and Mir (decent, but not that good.)
> 
> ...


Repped for intelligence.


Good post.

:thumbsup:


----------



## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> Now THAT is a scary vid, repped. You can really see how quickly he's absorbed sub-defence and standup and combined it with his huge size, wrestling, and athleticism.


Agreed. Also the fact that he's training with Nelson is something to be considered in and of itself. Nelson isn't as popular as Greg Jackson, but in my opinion comes up with just as sound plans and really brings the right guys in to help train his fighters.


----------



## Skylaars (Jul 13, 2009)

You can hate Brock all you want, but the dude is fuking GODLY.


----------



## BGDDYKWL (Sep 25, 2009)

BWoods said:


> I'm not saying he's a bad wrestler, but if he couldn't take Randy down (he only managed 1 takedown out of how many attempts?) with a 60 pound advantage and actually BE taken down by a fighter with that same weight disadvantage. That just means he isn't nearly as technically skilled a wrestler as some believe he is.


He only attempted to take Randy down a few times, and did so with great ease on one occasion. In my opinion Brock was very worried about gassing in this fight and let Randy dictate the pace. I think Lesnar was afraid that if he put a lot of energy into taking Randy down, he'd pay for it in the later rounds if he wasn't able to earn a quick victory. IMO he gave Randy a little too much respect, but ultimately it paid off so I can't argue. Perhaps he felt Randy couldn't hurt him standing up, and the only way he'd lose the fight was if he gassed. That was the impression I got. 



BWoods said:


> He's learning the submission game which is very important for him, but what happens when a good striker start putting inside legkicks into him. What happens when he fights a guy who can stuff his takedown? What happens when he is hurt and his opponent locks in an anaconda/d'arce/guillotine?


There isn't a guy who can stuff Lesnar's takedown attempts IMO. And I know people will say Couture did, but I explained my take on that (not saying I'm right, but that's what it looked/seemed like to me). And I know many will say Carwin will be able to, but I just don't see it happening. I think a guy with great standup who could land some kicks will be on his back in a matter of seconds against Lesnar, but I would agree that a great sub guy is still a legitimate threat. 



Servatose said:


> I see Brock taking this fight pretty easily, and not simply because of this video. I just see Brock as the better athlete, and he probably has a great game plan training with Greg Nelson. I don't really see Carwin being able to nullify Brock's wrestling either. I think there will be too much of a gap in skill and athleticism.


Agreed on all points. Lesnar's advantages far outweigh Carwin's. Brock's wrestling is far too good for Carwin, and his strength/athleticism is also far beyond Carwin's. I understand people saying let's see what Lesnar can do with someone similar to him (and I agree Carwin is the closest guy), but that doesn't mean Carwin is Lesnar's equal, and I think people are going to quickly find that out come fight night. The gameplan comment is spot on as well. Aside from a little over-excitement against Mir in his first fight, I have been very impressed with both his strategy and his execution in all of his fights. 



lagmonkey said:


> After going back and rewatching (is that a word?) Carwin's last couple of fights I have to wonder if he is going to change his style at all when facing Lesnar. Looks to me like Carwin leaves his chin hanging out in the breeze a lot and against a beast like Lesnar this could cost him big time.


Absolutely, and also, if you notice in every fight he's dropped someone with that big right he first threw a left jab and then immediately followed with it. Lesnar's reach will pose a problem for Carwin if he keeps that chin exposed, and Lesnar's power will as well as Carwin has been rocked a bit on more than one occasion. 



Breadfan said:


> his sparring partner mentioned how good his Jitsu was... is he serious? I haven't seen it, so I can't argue, but I feel like Brock's jitz is sub par at best


I would guess he meant compared to the amount of time he's been training. I don't think anyone is gonna come out and say it's great compared to some of the top guys in the sport. The advantage he does have though is with that size and power he could even have decent technique and still sub guys.


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Breadfan said:


> his sparring partner mentioned how good his Jitsu was... is he serious? I haven't seen it, so I can't argue, but I feel like Brock's jitz is sub par at best


My gut tells me you are right. However, there is no real comparison to draw some solid conclusions.

I would imagine most fighters are not rich to begin with. They would start from modest beginnings in modest gyms and build it up from there. Lesnar however kicked off his MMA career with the best trainers, the best equipment and the best sparring partners. I would bet that 99% of fighters don't have these facilities in their first 2 years of MMA training. Because of this its difficult to form an opinion on Lesnars progress based on how long it took other fighters to reach their skill levels.

BJ Penn is another good example. Extremely naturally talented to begin with, but with a solid financial base behind him he was able to completely dedicate himself to training JuJitsu. The result was a Black Belt in record time and the tag "Prodigy".


----------



## YOURMOMWASHERE (Sep 20, 2009)

Brock will not stand with carwin for more than 30 seconds, hes gonna instantly shoot and try to lay on carwin for 5 rounds.

Can carwin get back up, or even stuff a takedown? Doubt it, but we will see.

It is funny that people are so sure of brocks skill/athletics when hes only had 4 fights and beaten only 1 decent HW

Randy - the dudes 40+ and not even a true heavy weight, his frame is suited for LHW. He was the belt holder....wtf?

Crazyhorse - always been a C class fighter at best. Brought nothing to the table except how tough he was. Fedor finished him in his prime like nothing, brock couldnt finish him.

Mir - An A class HW, and brock has a legit win over him....a legit loss also.



So based on those fights, how can you KNOW if brock is that good? I'll reserve my judgment for now.


----------



## oordeel (Apr 14, 2007)

It seems that fighers/scenarios like this happen frequently in MMA. MMA as a whole is still evolving, and so when a new fighter, or generation of fighters step up, they always seem nigh impossible to beat. Someone will come up with a good gameplan or strategy that will counter what seems currently hard to beat.

As an example, Hughes in his prime seemed almost impossible to beat, yet fighters and MMA have evolved, so right now most people don't even rank Hughes in the top ten for LW.

Everyone knows what happened to Chuck.

I think the same will apply to Brock, he's one massive guy, very strong and very fast. And it's going to take a certain type of fighter to beat him and that will take way his perceived aura of invincibility.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Brock made huge improvements to his game, specially considering his last 2 wins, and some people don't see a winning strategy against it. 

Nobody is/stays unbeatable, it's just a matter of time and maybe some thinking outside the box (a reason why MMA math doesn't work).

Now, do I think Carwin is the man to do it ? He certainly has a chance, but I think he's more of "not so good version of Lesnar". 
No disrespect intended, I hope that the best man that night will win.


----------



## GMK13 (Apr 20, 2009)

BrianRClover said:


> I hate to say it but the HW division is soon going to feel exactly what 170 and 185 feel... second place is pretty much the best you're going to get.


yea thats a good point, it does seem like that.


----------



## Curly (Aug 20, 2007)

oordeel said:


> I think [Carwins] more of "not so good version of Lesnar".


Very very true. :thumbsup:


----------



## Coosh (Sep 25, 2009)

This video IS NOT NEW and is not even Brock training for the Carwin fight.

It's a bunch of his old Death Clutch video's where he was training for the Mir fight at UFC 100 edited and thrown together on Youtube.

fail.


----------



## Coosh (Sep 25, 2009)

oordeel said:


> It seems that fighers/scenarios like this happen frequently in MMA. MMA as a whole is still evolving, and so when a new fighter, or generation of fighters step up, they always seem nigh impossible to beat. Someone will come up with a good gameplan or strategy that will counter what seems currently hard to beat.
> 
> As an example, Hughes in his prime seemed almost impossible to beat, yet fighters and MMA have evolved, so right now most people don't even rank Hughes in the top ten for LW.
> 
> ...


I can just as easily make a case that Chuck and Hughes started to slide because they were past their prime. That's probably the more likely scenario.


----------



## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

michelangelo said:


> There's always Fedor.


Fedor should have made the fight after Lesnar beat Couture. It might be too late now with Lesnar improving all the time.


----------



## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...This will be Brock's biggest test because he's fighting a man big & strong enough to really hurt him. Carwin is probably the only man who has enough punching power to win. Shane has much better boxing skills and also has a wrestling backround. Carwin has cleaner striking. Lesnar has grazing KO power himself. Carwin has to stop Brock's takedowns. If not- Brock controls the top, he'll pound Shane out for sure. Carwin's best chance is to stand and trade with nice combinations hoping to catch Lesnar early. Carwin has Yoda in the corner. This fight will be crazy...


----------



## TheGreenMachine (Aug 19, 2009)

BGDDYKWL said:


> Agreed on all points. Lesnar's advantages far outweigh Carwin's. Brock's wrestling is far too good for Carwin, and his strength/athleticism is also far beyond Carwin's. I understand people saying let's see what Lesnar can do with someone similar to him (and I agree Carwin is the closest guy), but that doesn't mean Carwin is Lesnar's equal, and I think people are going to quickly find that out come fight night. The gameplan comment is spot on as well. Aside from a little over-excitement against Mir in his first fight, I have been very impressed with both his strategy and his execution in all of his fights.


No way in hell does Lesnar's advantages outweigh Carwin's. They are pretty much dead even in my eyes and whatever advantages they have cancel each others out. They are both equally matched in strength and size. Both have good wrestling bases. Lesnar's maybe slightly better since he was Division I, but II isn't bad either. Carwin has the big advantage in standup and has a tested chin. He's been hit before, meaning he knows how to take a shot and recover quickly. Watch the Gonzaga fight again. He took a shot, clinched, then recovered. Also, Lesnar's wrestling is way overrated and I would also say that Carwin maybe better on the ground. Again, in the Gonzaga fight, Carwin simply just stood up when he was in the corner being handled by Gonzaga, a BJJ black belt and ground specialist who was also similar in size. Carwin may not have the best TDD, but its proven that he can get back on his feet. When has Lesnar proven this? And we all know Carwin has the standup advantage and can actually deliver a KO. He has Greg Jackson as his trainer right now I believe, so that's also an advantage. 




> Absolutely, and also, if you notice in every fight he's dropped someone with that big right he first threw a left jab and then immediately followed with it. Lesnar's reach will pose a problem for Carwin if he keeps that chin exposed, and Lesnar's power will as well as Carwin has been rocked a bit on more than one occasion.


Lesnar said he was rocked by the knee from Mir, but Carwin has been proven to have a good chin. Gonzaga hits hard and he was able to take those shots and keep his composure. Lesnar's chin is not tested. And Lesnar's 3 inch reach may pose a problem, but Lesnar poses no knockout power at all. He couldn't even knock out Heath Herring, a gate keeper in the HW division. He didn't even want to exchange with Mir on his feet either and Mir isn't even that great of a striker. And the only reason he TKOed Randy was because of his massive reach advantage against him.







YOURMOMWASHERE said:


> Brock will not stand with carwin for more than 30 seconds, hes gonna instantly shoot and try to lay on carwin for 5 rounds.
> 
> Can carwin get back up, or even stuff a takedown? Doubt it, but we will see.


Like I said, if he can stand back up against Gonzaga, a much more tested HW than Lesnar, he can probably get up against Lesnar, especially if he comes in the same weight. 



> It is funny that people are so sure of brocks skill/athletics when hes only had 4 fights and beaten only 1 decent HW
> 
> Randy - the dudes 40+ and not even a true heavy weight, his frame is suited for LHW. He was the belt holder....wtf?
> 
> ...




Agreed. In every fight of Lesnar's, he's fought guys with either a severe weight or reach advantage. Carwin has too, but at least he as fought some guys more similar to him in weight in the UFC including Gonzaga. Both are pretty untested though and I agree that this fight will answer some of the questions, but not all.


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

TheGreenMachine said:


> Agreed. In every fight of Lesnar's, he's fought guys with either a severe weight or reach advantage. Carwin has too, but at least he as fought some guys more similar to him in weight in the UFC including Gonzaga. Both are pretty untested though and I agree that this fight will answer some of the questions, but not all.


Lesnar may have had decent weight advantages but he also faced much better opposition then Carwin has. The only person Carwin has beat of any importance is Gonzaga who Couture destroyed and was beat by Werdum twice. The only thing Gonzaga actually has behind his name is his knockout of Cro Cop. He was/is overrated just like Carwin is now. 

This fight is going to be a one sided beat down and the only chance Carwin has is a punchers chance.


----------



## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

Brock never said he was rocked. He only said he felt the knee's.

Honestly Carwin's chin is not all it is cracked up to be. Yea, Gonzaga hit him with two bombs, but Gonzaga clinched immediately and took Carwin down, NOT the other way around.

Carwin is not getting back up if Lesnar gets him down. There is not way Carwin will come in around 285 fight time like Brock will, and Carwin will probably weigh in at 250-255 lbs. Lesnar has beaten more quality fighters than Carwin has.


----------



## BGDDYKWL (Sep 25, 2009)

TheGreenMachine said:


> No way in hell does Lesnar's advantages outweigh Carwin's. They are pretty much dead even in my eyes and whatever advantages they have cancel each others out. They are both equally matched in strength and size. Both have good wrestling bases.


That's just the thing, they're not equally matched. Lesnar is bigger, stronger, faster, and a better wrestler. Carwin may be closer to Lesnar in these areas than the other HWs, but that doesn't mean he's close. 


TheGreenMachine said:


> He's been hit before, meaning he knows how to take a shot and recover quickly.


How come because Carwin has been rocked people say his chin has "been tested", but when Lesnar takes a huge knee and appears unphased people say he either was rocked, or hasn't been tested. You can't have it both ways. Either the knee rocked him, thus he was tested, or it didn't. If a jumping knee from a guy nearly 250 pounds doesn't do anything I'd say Lesnar can take a shot. 


TheGreenMachine said:


> Also, Lesnar's wrestling is way overrated and I would also say that Carwin maybe better on the ground.


That's funny. Based on what exactly? Ron Waterman (who Carwin trains with) said that Lesnar is one of the very few guys who has ever been able to take him down at will. Waterman is a 280 pound muscle-bound wrestler. He didn't say that about Carwin. If you think Carwin can match Lesnar's size, speed, power, and wrestling, you're gonna be in for a rude awakening. He has a puncher's chance. Nothing less, nothing more. 



TheGreenMachine said:


> Lesnar said he was rocked by the knee from Mir, but Carwin has been proven to have a good chin.


Seeing tweety birds for a second (which is what he said) is different than getting rocked. I've yelled so loud before I saw tweety birds for a second or two. Big difference. Bottom line is Carwin has been rocked and Lesnar hasn't. I don't see how that's an advantage for Carwin. 



TheGreenMachine said:


> Gonzaga hits hard and he was able to take those shots and keep his composure. Lesnar's chin is not tested. And Lesnar's 3 inch reach may pose a problem, but Lesnar poses no knockout power at all. He couldn't even knock out Heath Herring, a gate keeper in the HW division.


Umm, Lesnar broke Herring's face in a matter of seconds and dominated the fight. Kongo is also a gatekeeper (who Herring beat) and Cain was rocked twice by him.



TheGreenMachine said:


> He didn't even want to exchange with Mir on his feet either and Mir isn't even that great of a striker. And the only reason he TKOed Randy was because of his massive reach advantage against him.


He didn't want to exchange with Mir because he felt he could control him on the ground. Tough to argue with his gameplan when he dominated the fight.



TheGreenMachine said:


> Like I said, if he can stand back up against Gonzaga, a much more tested HW than Lesnar, he can probably get up against Lesnar, especially if he comes in the same weight.


Lesnar is bigger, stronger, and a much better wrestler than Gonzaga. It will be much more difficult for Carwin to get up when Lesnar's on top of him.


----------



## TheGreenMachine (Aug 19, 2009)

BGDDYKWL said:


> That's just the thing, they're not equally matched. Lesnar is bigger, stronger, faster, and a better wrestler. Carwin may be closer to Lesnar in these areas than the other HWs, but that doesn't mean he's close.


With the exception of faster/athletism, they are equal. Lesnar is not bigger or stronger. Carwin is shorter and comes in at 265-285, so they are around the same weight. As for strength, they are matched. Carwin has picked up other heightweights and slammed them before which isn't easy. As for wrestling, Lesnar's wrestling is wayyy overrated and Carwin has comparable wrestling at that. Besides his takedowns which rely a lot on his strength, size, and speed, he does nothing on the ground besides hammer fist. 



> How come because Carwin has been rocked people say his chin has "been tested", but when Lesnar takes a huge knee and appears unphased people say he either was rocked, or hasn't been tested. You can't have it both ways. Either the knee rocked him, thus he was tested, or it didn't. If a jumping knee from a guy nearly 250 pounds doesn't do anything I'd say Lesnar can take a shot.


Because Carwin has been hit more than once in his carreer and with cleaner and more direct shots to the chin. Lesnar has only been hit like what, once or twice? That's the difference. O, and Mir was 255. 



> That's funny. Based on what exactly? Ron Waterman (who Carwin trains with) said that Lesnar is one of the very few guys who has ever been able to take him down at will. Waterman is a 280 pound muscle-bound wrestler. He didn't say that about Carwin. If you think Carwin can match Lesnar's size, speed, power, and wrestling, you're gonna be in for a rude awakening. He has a puncher's chance. Nothing less, nothing more.



Based on the fact that when he gets on the ground, all he does is Donkey Kong his opponents and use hammer fist. He's pretty 1 dimension on the ground. He's aggressive, but 1 dimension. And its been proven that Carwin can match Lesnar's size, just look back at his past fights. And he definately has the strength as I said above too. As for wrestling, they are about the same, but Brock does have the speed advantage. 



> Seeing tweety birds for a second (which is what he said) is different than getting rocked. I've yelled so loud before I saw tweety birds for a second or two. Big difference. Bottom line is Carwin has been rocked and Lesnar hasn't. I don't see how that's an advantage for Carwin.


Yea, and being rocked and keeping your composure shows the measure of a good fighter. Everyone gets hit eventually, and the way they handle it shows you their true tolerence of pain and skill level. Carwin has had his chin tested while Brock hasn't, so for all we know, he could have a glass chin. 




> Umm, Lesnar broke Herring's face in a matter of seconds and dominated the fight. Kongo is also a gatekeeper (who Herring beat) and Cain was rocked twice by him.


Yea, Brock broke Herring's face and still couldn't finish him. My point exactly. Brock's punching power is overrated. He has yet to KO anyone on his feet. And Cain still won that fight didn't he? Exactly. Doesn't matter if he was rocked, he can take a punch and keep going. Same with Carwin. 




> He didn't want to exchange with Mir because he felt he could control him on the ground. Tough to argue with his gameplan when he dominated the fight.


Mir was actually winning on his feet which is why I said that, and Mir's standup isn't the greatest. 




> Lesnar is bigger, stronger, and a much better wrestler than Gonzaga. It will be much more difficult for Carwin to get up when Lesnar's on top of him.


That's funny, because last time I checked, Gonzaga wasn't a wrestler, he was a BJJ specialist. And a black belt in BJJ has been proven to hold a lot more weight in the UFC than a pure wrestling background. As for bigger, stronger, and better wrestler, you are just repeating the same points that I just disproved and said they were equal on. 




Blitzz said:


> Brock never said he was rocked. He only said he felt the knee's.
> 
> Honestly Carwin's chin is not all it is cracked up to be. Yea, Gonzaga hit him with two bombs, but Gonzaga clinched immediately and took Carwin down, NOT the other way around.
> 
> Carwin is not getting back up if Lesnar gets him down. There is not way Carwin will come in around 285 fight time like Brock will, and Carwin will probably weigh in at 250-255 lbs. Lesnar has beaten more quality fighters than Carwin has.


Watch the Gonzaga vs. Carwin fight again. Carwin clinched with Gonzaga, not the other way around. And if Carwin could just stand up against Gonzaga, a BJJ black belt after being taken down, he stands a good chance of doing it with Lesnar. 


And lol at the 255 lbs claim. Dude, his last fight was at 265ish, so he is definately going to come in at that weight or higher. Earlier in his carreer, he was coming in at 285, so he can do it again if he wants.


----------



## kgilstrap (Dec 3, 2006)

To be honest, I wasn't really impressed by the video. I've seen the dude throw his donkey kong punches, but what else can he do? 
He is going to meet a hungrier Shane Carwin in November and I can't wait to see him have to fight someone his own size and strength.

BGDDYKWL:
Both of these guys have been said to bench 600 pounds, so the strength category is just about dead even, in fact I've heard Shane has the bigger squat of the two.
Secondly while Brock seems CRAZY FAST for his zie, so is Shane, it's going to b interesting to see two such athletic big dudes go at it. But I think Carwin has the more rounded skill set and can take the fight more places. He is surprisingly good off his back as well, and is strong enough unlike Mir to force a submission or control brocks posture from his back.


----------



## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

Shane is not crazy fast for a HW. He is slow just like the rest of them. They are not roughly the same size. Lesnar will have at least 15 lbs on Carwin come fight time. Lesnar moves like a middleweight, it is just crazy how fast he moves. Shane is like the rest of the HW.

Carwin and Lesnar's ability in the stand up is about the same. Both are sloppy. Carwin is only highly rated because he has tko'd b and c level fighters, but his striking is sloppy and he has bad footwork. He also likes to hang his chin out. Lesnar is no polished gem either in the stand up, which is why Lesnar will take down Carwin and control him on the ground.

To say that Carwin could and have a better chance at subbing Lesnar than Mir did. Well, Mir already did it once, and Mir is lightyears ahead of Carwin's ground game. Carwin is roughly the same size as Carwin and Lesnar completely controlled Mir on the ground in their second fight. Yes Carwin is a bit stronger than Mir is, but there is no way Carwin is pulling a sub from the bottom. He may be able to get up, but that is also doubtful.

Lesnar is the better fighter of the two. They are both similar fighters. Take the robot chicken short about the ateam. Lesnar is the ateam, Carwin is the bteam.

Lesnar will win this fight. I am going with a 2nd round tko.


----------



## The Don (May 25, 2006)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> How about this video? It's pre Mir II and they basically predict what's going to happen. You can even see that certain GnP position that Mir ended up in all the times.


Yes this was a great vid compared to the main one. This makes brock look more scary..



Hellboy said:


> Fedor should have made the fight after Lesnar beat Couture. It might be too late now with Lesnar improving all the time.


The longer a fight between these two is delayed the harder it will be for Fedor.. Unless Fedor has been holding back as of late.. Granted Fedor is superbly skilled and has incredible punching power. I would not count him out against AnyoneA challenge of someone like Brock may be what Fedor really needs to push himself to the next level. Same thing for Brock though.. This would be a clash of Gods..... And I think Fedor Beat god by armbar if I recall..


----------



## YOURMOMWASHERE (Sep 20, 2009)

Blitzz said:


> Shane is not crazy fast for a HW. He is slow just like the rest of them. They are not roughly the same size. Lesnar will have at least 15 lbs on Carwin come fight time. Lesnar moves like a middleweight, it is just crazy how fast he moves. Shane is like the rest of the HW.
> 
> Carwin and Lesnar's ability in the stand up is about the same. Both are sloppy. Carwin is only highly rated because he has tko'd b and c level fighters, but his striking is sloppy and he has bad footwork. He also likes to hang his chin out. Lesnar is no polished gem either in the stand up, which is why Lesnar will take down Carwin and control him on the ground.
> 
> ...


You're out of your mind. Mir is not "roughly" the same size as carwin, carwin is twice as big. And carwins striking is light years better than brocks, brock can't even K.o anyone. That was a solid punch to a washed up crazy hourses face and he wasnt even K.o'd

1 hit from carwin and lesnar is going to be done. Hopefully for lesnar he will be smart enough not to trade punches.


----------



## bOoRadley (Sep 22, 2009)

Christ I hope Carwin knocks this clown out. Lesnar's entire persona and his pro-wrestling antics after the Herring fight and after the second Mir fight make me absolutely f***ing embarrassed to admit that I'm an MMA fan. He is a stain on MMA and does nothing but damage and undo all the hard work, blood, sweat and pain that's been put into legitimizing the sport and making it acceptable and appealing to a mainstream audience which helps it grow and evolve.

So someone with credentials that consist of a couple of years MMA training and winning some collegiate wrestling titles a decade ago can stroll in and win the heavyweight title...all that shows is how absolutely f***ing weak that division is. Can you even imagine someone doing that in any of the other weight classes? Can you see BJ, Anderson, St. Pierre or Machida getting beaten by someone with 1 pro fight and a couple years training? It's ridiculous to even consider it. Yet fools are running around ranking him # 2 in the world and claiming that he'll maul Fedor. It's so dumb that it's funny.

Lesnar is a joke and now that some decent heavyweights are here he'll lose and order will be restored to the MMA universe. As I said earlier I hope Carwin beats him, not just beats him but really lays a f***ing prison-snitch style beating on him. I hope he damages Lesnar so bad mentally that he's never the same again. It's what he deserves. And I guarantee that when it happens all of Brocks so called fans will be climbing over women and children to jump ship and claim that they knew all long he was nothing but hype.


Phew...I went on a little bit or rant there


----------



## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

bOoRadley said:


> Christ I hope Carwin knocks this clown out. Lesnar's entire persona and his pro-wrestling antics after the Herring fight and after the second Mir fight make me absolutely f***ing embarrassed to admit that I'm an MMA fan. He is a stain on MMA and does nothing but damage and undo all the hard work, blood, sweat and pain that's been put into legitimizing the sport and making it acceptable and appealing to a mainstream audience which helps it grow and evolve.
> 
> So someone with credentials that consist of a couple of years MMA training and winning some collegiate wrestling titles a decade ago can stroll in and win the heavyweight title...all that shows is how absolutely f***ing weak that division is. Can you even imagine someone doing that in any of the other weight classes? Can you see BJ, Anderson, St. Pierre or Machida getting beaten by someone with 1 pro fight and a couple years training? It's ridiculous to even consider it. Yet fools are running around ranking him # 2 in the world and claiming that he'll maul Fedor. It's so dumb that it's funny.
> 
> ...


Wow yet another person who chooses to see personality over mma accomplishments and athletic credentials what a suprise. Why can't people just accept the fact he has trained his ass off to learn mma hes here to stay in the UFC get over it btw what are you going to do if he beats Carwin? Gim him credit, or are you still going to complain?


----------



## turbohall (Aug 6, 2009)

I am starting to look at Carwin as a Tank Abbott, he can strike but what else can he do, nobody has seen him going longer then 2 minutes. What kind of cardio does he have he was gasping hard after a few of his fights and they was only 2 minutes. He is slow, moves stiff, I mean he slow for the UFC. GG rocked him and then took him down. GG was not trying to keep him down either, Brock would had kept him down. Brock was rocked by two knees in the Mir 2 fight. Brock got nailed by Randy elbow and it didn't effect him at all. Brock knock down Herring and then fought on the ground the rest of the time not really going for a knock out, and Fedor didn't really finish Herring off to easy either. Brock moves much faster then Carwin and that will be his advantage to the fight. I see Brock getting hit a few times and I see Carwin getting hit, but the fight will end on the ground with Brock GNP.


----------



## kgilstrap (Dec 3, 2006)

Blitzz:

I don't know why I am even acknowledging your post, but I will. 

First, Shane is not the same as the other HW's in the division. He is extremely large, extrememly quick, and extremely agile. Both of these guys are freaks of nature, anyone that has trained or wrestled with any of them says they can both go for 5 rounds at an incredible pace. 

Secondly, Carwin has proven in all of his fights that he has VERY heavy hands. People he has trained with say he has been known to totally rock dudes in practice with a half ass punch.

Third, Mir does have better jiu jitsu, unfortunately brock overpowered him and he didnt even get a chance to use it...this won't happen against Shane. Shane has HUGE hands and is very strong. When he grabs one of brocks donkey kong arms from the bottom he will be able to control him unlike Mir.

Fourth, Mir and Carwin are not the same size. Mir was the biggest of his career at 250 for his last fight, Carwin will weigh in at 265, and already stated he plans on fighting at 290 come fight night.

Fifth, carwin is the more well rounded fighter, get your facts straight (more stand up and jiu jitsu training, and has been trainign with an A level camp for longer)...only advantage that Brock MIGHT have is in the wrestling dept, but we truly wont know until the fight...despite the division 1 and divison 2 titles they actually wrestled most of the same dudes in college.


----------



## TheGreenMachine (Aug 19, 2009)

kgilstrap said:


> Blitzz:
> 
> I don't know why I am even acknowledging your post, but I will.
> 
> ...


^^^All of this. 

Plus, Carwin is pretty similar to Brock on the ground, except he doesn't throw a million hammer fist a minute, he just throws bombs. 

Check this video out for example. 






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAlAneaYjqU


----------



## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

Come on. It is foolish to think Cawrin will come in at 290 come fight time. He will come in at 255 lbs and not anymore. Shane may be quick for a HW, but he is not even close to Lesnar in explosiveness and quickness. Carwin's striking is not good. Yes, he has very heavy hands which gives the impression that he is a god of striking, but in reality he leaves his chin out and is very rigid.

Carwin has somehow become a legend with only one thing clinging to his name, beating Gonzaga... Carwin has now become a 300 lb monster with oil drums for hands who is a ground wizard that could easily sub Fedor from his back. He has the power to bench a semi which means he can grab someones wrist from the bottom and toss them from on top of him. This has become incredible how people overstate Carwin's size, skill, and athleticism as of late.


----------



## kgilstrap (Dec 3, 2006)

Blitzz said:


> Come on. It is foolish to think Cawrin will come in at 290 come fight time. He will come in at 255 lbs and not anymore.


He weighs 285 when he isn't training for a fight. He is a big guy, the only thing foolish is that comment.



Blitzz said:


> Shane may be quick for a HW, but he is not even close to Lesnar in explosiveness and quickness.


Shane was measured a long with other olympic athletes and other athletes from other sports by a company called Warrior Roots and his DNA tested higher for the 'explosive' gene than any other athlete tested. 



Blitzz said:


> Carwin's striking is not good. Yes, he has very heavy hands which gives the impression that he is a god of striking, but in reality he leaves his chin out and is very rigid.


Carwin does like to take hits, and I agree he needs to work on moving his head more and being as light on his feet in the ring as he is when he's doing drills. The truth though, his striking is better than Brock's and the main difference is Shane has those heavy hands and hits as hard if not harder than Brock.

I'm not saying Shane is going to go out there and destroy Brock. I think if both guys fight their game plans it could very well be the best 5 round HW battle of all time! The reason I am picking Shane in this fight is because he can go more places, and has the strength to negate Brock's main advantage he has had over all his other opponents.


----------



## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

Blitzz said:


> Come on. It is foolish to think Cawrin will come in at 290 come fight time. He will come in at 255 lbs and not anymore. Shane may be quick for a HW, but he is not even close to Lesnar in explosiveness and quickness. Carwin's striking is not good. Yes, he has very heavy hands which gives the impression that he is a god of striking, but in reality he leaves his chin out and is very rigid.
> 
> Carwin has somehow become a legend with only one thing clinging to his name, beating Gonzaga... Carwin has now become a 300 lb monster with oil drums for hands who is a ground wizard that could easily sub Fedor from his back. He has the power to bench a semi which means he can grab someones wrist from the bottom and toss them from on top of him. This has become incredible how people overstate Carwin's size, skill, and athleticism as of late.


I agree totally man. Come fight time Carwin will honestly come in around 265ish. No way in hell anywhere near 290:confused03:


----------



## turbohall (Aug 6, 2009)

*Shane was measured a long with other olympic athletes and other athletes from other sports by a company called Warrior Roots and his DNA tested higher for the 'explosive' gene than any other athlete tested. *

This is one of the dumbest comments I have ever heard, tested for the explosive gene?:confused02: 

Carwin will end up being the next Tank Abbott of MMA, he has heavy hands and will that is about it.


----------



## RWMenace (Aug 10, 2008)

kgilstrap said:


> I think if both guys fight their game plans it could very well be the best 5 round HW battle of all time!


You really think this fight will make it 5 rounds? :confused02:


----------



## kgilstrap (Dec 3, 2006)

turbohall said:


> *Shane was measured a long with other olympic athletes and other athletes from other sports by a company called Warrior Roots and his DNA tested higher for the 'explosive' gene than any other athlete tested. *
> 
> This is one of the dumbest comments I have ever heard, tested for the explosive gene?:confused02:
> 
> Carwin will end up being the next Tank Abbott of MMA, he has heavy hands and will that is about it.


Do some research before posting or trying to insult please. :sarcastic12: The company called Warrior Roots exists and has doen testing on athletes like GSP and Randy Couture.

Think of it this way, some people have certain abilities and they can excel on those things, especially with practice. Other traits however that person will not excel at, no matter how hard they try. So why not have your DNA tested to see what you naturally gifted for so you can modify your workouts to benefit you?


----------



## kgilstrap (Dec 3, 2006)

RWMenace:
If both guys have the perfect game plan for each other IT COULD...but no I do not think so, someone is getting KO'ed or a ref stoppage. Three rounds tops.


----------



## sean01 (Sep 26, 2009)

carwin doesnt even deserve his title shot imo he should of had some more fights with big name guys b4 even being thought of fighting for the title


----------



## The Don (May 25, 2006)

kgilstrap said:


> Do some research before posting or trying to insult please. :sarcastic12: The company called Warrior Roots exists and has doen testing on athletes like GSP and Randy Couture.
> 
> Think of it this way, some people have certain abilities and they can excel on those things, especially with practice. Other traits however that person will not excel at, no matter how hard they try. So why not have your DNA tested to see what you naturally gifted for so you can modify your workouts to benefit you?


You had me curious so here is the link for others to lazy http://www.warriorroots.com/
now for where you see all this about Carwin.. yea it appears he was tested but I have not found the results of his test here.. granted I am still looking and it is intriguing.. I like GSP even more now as he has Celtic genes in him..


----------



## The Don (May 25, 2006)

Wow that stuff is expensive.. 200 to get a test done on yourself..


----------



## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

Brock looked good i'll admit but I certainly don't think Carwin can be discounted either. Sweet Slayer logo on the wall as well.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

DahStoryTella said:


> co-signed, and i don't think lesnar is going to try and stand with carwin.


I dont either, although inevidabley they will start out that way...in other words i see a feeling out process.....



leifdawg said:


> Umm he picked his shots very well in the Mir fight.
> 
> Also IMO the shots from that video were an endurance drill rather than a technique/strategy drill.


I agree with Leif....more endurance than skills....



Admz said:


> I believe both men are very untested in this game.
> 
> Brock easily swept through Herring (gatekeeper for a very long time now), Couture (very old), and Mir (decent, but not that good.)
> 
> ...


I think there are some very valid points raised in this post.....i think t the end of the day Brock is just a better athlete....



YOURMOMWASHERE said:


> Brock will not stand with carwin for more than 30 seconds, hes gonna instantly shoot and try to lay on carwin for 5 rounds.
> 
> *Can carwin get back up, or even stuff a takedown? Doubt it, but we will see.*
> 
> ...


 
Some of your posrs have been knocking me right out my chair as i have read them....you dont think a a two-time NCAA Division II Wrestling National Runner-Up Heavyweight in 1996-7, and the NCAA II Wrestling Heavyweight National Champion in 1999 could stuf a takedown from Brock......:confused02: Intresting...Im not sure its worth anything more than that.....



YOURMOMWASHERE said:


> You're out of your mind. Mir is not "roughly" the same size as carwin, *carwin is twice as big*. And carwins striking is light years better than brocks, brock can't even K.o anyone. That was a solid punch to a washed up crazy hourses face and he wasnt even K.o'd
> 
> 1 hit from carwin and lesnar is going to be done. Hopefully for lesnar he will be smart enough not to trade punches.


Mir weighs 245 Carwin weighs 265???? Twice the size, again Im perplexed by your reasoning......



Blitzz said:


> Come on. It is foolish to think *Cawrin will come in at 290 come fight time. He will come in at 255 lbs* and not anymore. Shane may be quick for a HW, but he is not even close to Lesnar in explosiveness and quickness. Carwin's striking is not good. Yes, he has very heavy hands which gives the impression that he is a god of striking, but in reality he leaves his chin out and is very rigid.
> 
> Carwin has somehow become a legend with only one thing clinging to his name, beating Gonzaga... Carwin has now become a 300 lb monster with oil drums for hands who is a ground wizard that could easily sub Fedor from his back. He has the power to bench a semi which means he can grab someones wrist from the bottom and toss them from on top of him. This has become incredible how people overstate Carwin's size, skill, and athleticism as of late.


He stated he plans to come in at 265-270 the night of the fight......:thumbsup:



TERMINATOR said:


> I agree totally man. Come fight time Carwin will honestly come in around 265ish. No way in hell anywhere near 290:confused03:


He saod 265-270 so your right.....


CC420


----------



## DAMURDOC (May 27, 2007)

what the hell is wrong with you people... OF COURSE Brock can be stopped... hell he HAS been submitted by Frank Mir remember? Geez Brock barely has 6 fights under is belt and already he's as great as Fedor.


----------



## FredFish1 (Apr 22, 2007)

Why is it that topics about Brock, become basically 2 sides of nut huggers, and people dissing Brock? There is very little middle ground, a lot less than discussing other fighters.

Personally, I hate the guy, but have huge respect for his talent. That other video of his training camp and his training with BJJ master (forgot his name) was very impressive to me. Brock doesn't have to learn how to throw up subs, he just has to learn how to avoid them. And from what I can see, he's improving phenomenally. At most aspects of MMA. The day I see Brock throw a head kick, is the day I become a fan of his 
Yes he's still a bit green, but has demonstrated enormous skill and potential, it's foolish to say otherwise. I have him as an easy #2 only to Fedor. Personally I think Brock is Carwin 2.0. 

I'm rooting for Shane, not because I'm a fan of his, but rather I just don't like Brock... still respect his abilities though.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

FredFish1 said:


> Why is it that topics about Brock, become basically 2 sides of nut huggers, and people dissing Brock? There is very little middle ground, a lot less than discussing other fighters.
> 
> Personally, I hate the guy, but have huge respect for his talent. That other video of his training camp and his training with BJJ master (forgot his name) was very impressive to me. Brock doesn't have to learn how to throw up subs, he just has to learn how to avoid them. And from what I can see, he's improving phenomenally. At most aspects of MMA. The day I see Brock throw a head kick, is the day I become a fan of his
> Yes he's still a bit green, but has demonstrated enormous skill and potential, it's foolish to say otherwise. I have him as an easy #2 only to Fedor. Personally I think Brock is Carwin 2.0.
> ...


 
I agree with your post. I think it has alot to do with where he came from. PERIOD. 

THIS will not become a WWE discussion, mostly people have a prob with how quickly he got his opportunity and also the way he carries himself...(which no one can do anything about)....I am one of these......

The nutthuhggers I really believe are the hard core wrestlers(who have a legit reason to stake Brock is a good fighter cuz he was and is a great wrestler and wrestling is a huge part of MMA)....and also those that just followed him in WWE and have no real clue about MMA as they are "casual" fans and dont know the intracracies of mixed martial arts.....


CC420:thumbsup:


----------



## The Don (May 25, 2006)

coldcall420 said:


> I agree with your post. I think it has alot to do with where he came from. PERIOD.
> 
> THIS will not become a WWE discussion, mostly people have a prob with how quickly he got his opportunity and also the way he carries himself...(which no one can do anything about)....I am one of these......
> 
> ...


hmm I am a huge Brock fan... Though I am not a wrestler.. I am also a fan of his WWE days.. I am a fan of his including all the smack talk and such.. Why is it others can but he can't? true his timing is off but he is still learning as has been stated.. Over time as his skill increases I think more will fogive his early antics.. Thing is though.. he has only been disrespectful towards thouse who dissed him first.. So far Him and Carwin seem pretty civil neither is really trash talking. so far Brock seems to be respecting those who respecting him.. GO BROCK GO.. This should be an awesome battle..


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

The Don said:


> hmm I am a huge Brock fan... Though I am not a wrestler.. I am also a fan of his WWE days.. I am a fan of his including all the smack talk and such.. Why is it others can but he can't? true his timing is off but he is still learning as has been stated.. Over time as his skill increases I think more will fogive his early antics.. *Thing is though.. he has only been disrespectful towards thouse who dissed him first*.. So far *Him and Carwin* seem pretty civil neither is really trash talking. so far Brock seems to be respecting those who respecting him.. GO BROCK GO.. This should be an awesome battle..


 

Def will hopefully be an awesome battle......herring did nothing to dis Brock and Brock was classless after that fight....yeah it was Brocks hometown....not an excuse..IMO of course!

Carwin has been kinda verbal, so we'll see but I also think LesNAR realizes he is fighting a large man......not that that would stop Brock from being brock......but it could slow him down....LOL

respect....."The Don"

CC420:thumbsup:


----------



## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Def will hopefully be an awesome battle......herring did nothing to dis Brock and Brock was classless after that fight....yeah it was Brocks hometown....not an excuse..IMO of course!
> CC420:thumbsup:


I laughed my ass off when he rode the "Crazy Horse".

It is true, the only fighters to give shit to Lesnar were Mir and Herring. Herring went in on the belief that Lesnar was a "fake fighter". Well, Herring got his "fake" ass kicked.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Blitzz said:


> I laughed my ass off when he rode the "Crazy Horse".
> 
> It is true, the only fighters to give shit to Lesnar were Mir and Herring. Herring went in on the belief that Lesnar was a "fake fighter". Well, Herring got his "fake" ass kicked.


 
It does kinda look like that though...right...


----------



## BGDDYKWL (Sep 25, 2009)

TheGreenMachine said:


> With the exception of faster/athletism, they are equal. Lesnar is not bigger or stronger. Carwin is shorter and comes in at 265-285, so they are around the same weight. As for strength, they are matched. Carwin has picked up other heightweights and slammed them before which isn't easy. As for wrestling, Lesnar's wrestling is wayyy overrated and Carwin has comparable wrestling at that. Besides his takedowns which rely a lot on his strength, size, and speed, he does nothing on the ground besides hammer fist.


Lesnar is the better athlete, glad to see you acknowledge that. Lesnar is most certainly bigger. He's weighed around 285 for his fights, whereas Carwin has weighed in below 265, meaning that's likely what he weighed for his fights. I don't know how you could even attempt to debate that. There was a thread here a couple of weeks back talking about how Lesnar weighed as much as 289 at the time of one of his fights. Carwin weighed 259 for the Gonzaga fight. That's a 30 pound difference. 



TheGreenMachine said:


> Because Carwin has been hit more than once in his carreer and with cleaner and more direct shots to the chin. Lesnar has only been hit like what, once or twice?


But if you think Mir rocked him with that huge knee then you can't say he hasn't been tested. It's amazing to me that getting hit by Neil Wain is somehow a positive when making a case for Carwin. 



TheGreenMachine said:


> Based on the fact that when he gets on the ground, all he does is Donkey Kong his opponents and use hammer fist. He's pretty 1 dimension on the ground. He's aggressive, but 1 dimension. And its been proven that Carwin can match Lesnar's size, just look back at his past fights. And he definately has the strength as I said above too. As for wrestling, they are about the same, but Brock does have the speed advantage.


It's not proving something when you simply offer your opinion. Saying Carwin can match Lesnar's size and strength just because you say so isn't proof. I just demonstrated that Lesnar has been much bigger for his fights than Carwin has. That is proof. And they aren't the same in wrestling. That or Carwin isn't terribly bright (and we know that's not the case). If Carwin is as accomplished a wrestler as Lesnar, then why the hell would he stand and trade with guys? Just take them down. 



TheGreenMachine said:


> Yea, Brock broke Herring's face and still couldn't finish him. My point exactly. Brock's punching power is overrated. He has yet to KO anyone on his feet. And Cain still won that fight didn't he? Exactly. Doesn't matter if he was rocked, he can take a punch and keep going. Same with Carwin.


Lol, it's amazing to me how many people feel that getting rocked is a good thing. How many times has Anderson Silva been rocked? Or Machida? Or GSP? Not getting rocked is a good thing.

Lesnar dropped Mir, broke Herring's face, dropped Couture, and left Mir's face a beaten mess. I don't see how you anyone could say his power is overrated. If anything, his standup is underrated. 



TheGreenMachine said:


> That's funny, because last time I checked, Gonzaga wasn't a wrestler, he was a BJJ specialist. And a black belt in BJJ has been proven to hold a lot more weight in the UFC than a pure wrestling background. As for bigger, stronger, and better wrestler, you are just repeating the same points that I just disproved and said they were equal on.


So what if he's a BJJ specialist. To imply that a BJJ guy is going to be better at getting his opponent on his back and ground and pounding him is absurd. That's what wrestlers do. Brock is going to be better at controlling someone when he's on top of them than anyone in MMA.

Lesnar is a Division I national champ, who Ron Waterman (who knows both guys) says could take him down at will. Why would he specifically say Lesnar could if Carwin also could? Wouldn't he then say both guys could? He didn't though. He made the clear distinction that Lesnar could. "He (Lesnar) was one of the only guys I've trained with that could take me down at will."

Also from the Waterman interview:
Who's stronger, Lesnar or Carwin?
Waterman: I think Brock would have to have the edge on physical strength. He probably walks around a little bit heavier than Shane.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

BGDDYKWL said:


> Lesnar is the better athlete, glad to see you acknowledge that. Lesnar is most certainly bigger. He's weighed around 285 for his fights, whereas Carwin has weighed in below 265, meaning that's likely what he weighed for his fights. I don't know how you could even attempt to debate that. There was a thread here a couple of weeks back talking about how Lesnar weighed as much as 289 at the time of one of his fights. Carwin weighed 259 for the Gonzaga fight. That's a 30 pound difference.
> 
> 
> *You have read that Carwin plans on coming into this fight heavier correct??*
> ...


*We all know he walks around heavier than Carwin, that makes this guy the expert....hearsay is just that.....*


*I think there are only going to continue to be these discussions till they fight.....I will tell you that I expect carwin to be able to handle Brocks power but hope Carwin eases into a stand-up war and doesnt shoot in or get taken down....*

*If that were to happen I believe there would be alot of nothing going on while on the mat.....I think carwin can negate Brocks attack from mount, however i am concerned about getting out ffrom underneath him...*

*CC420*


----------



## Breadfan (Jan 3, 2008)

I must say that Brock did get rocked by Mir though. He said himself that he saw tweety bird for a second. which was right after the 2 knees Mir gave him. So his recovery isn't bad, but he can be rocked, his chin is Mir tested, Sable approved.

*
Watch almost 1:00 in exactly*


----------



## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

coldcall420 said:


> *I really dont think LesNAR was ever rocked...*


If you don't think he was rocked, then you must think he has a granite chin, because those were some solid shots.



coldcall420 said:


> *If that were to happen I believe there would be alot of nothing going on while on the mat.....I think carwin can negate Brocks attack from mount, however i am concerned about getting out ffrom underneath him...**CC420*


Why would Carwin be able to negate Brock's GnP when Mir wasn't able to.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

leifdawg said:


> [/b]If you don't think he was rocked, then you must think he has a granite chin, because those were some solid shots.
> 
> Why would Carwin be able to negate Brock's GnP when Mir wasn't able to.


 
I just watched a clip where he said he felt "tweety birds" for about a half second......from the 1st knee.....


I think carwins sheer size will allow more ability to defend from the bottom and escape from Brock smothering him....he plans on comming into the fight heavy.......Carwin I mean......otherwise I have no other reason....:dunno:

CC420:thumbsup:


----------



## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

coldcall420 said:


> I just watched a clip where he said he felt "tweety birds" for about a half second......from the 1st knee.....
> 
> 
> I think carwins sheer size will allow more ability to defend from the bottom and escape from Brock smothering him....he plans on comming into the fight heavy.......Carwin I mean......otherwise I have no other reason....:dunno:
> ...


I also think he was rocked, but you just said in the post above that you didn't think he was. That was a big shot he took there.

What does size have to do with negating GnP? Size and explosion could theoretically help you escape, but that's about it. So if he can't dislodge Brock completely he is going to get pounded.

Mir really isn't all that smaller than Carwin and is known as being very good off his back.


----------



## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

I dont think coming in heavier then usual is going to do anything to help Carwin. The guy doesnt have to cut when he fights (maybe he loses weight prior to his fights, but he doesnt cut in the same sense that brock has to drop ten to fifteen lbs right before weigh ins). Add weight to try and match size with a dude that is naturally much larger then you just does not seem like a good idea to me.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

leifdawg said:


> I also think he was rocked, but you just said in the post above that you didn't think he was. That was a big shot he took there.
> 
> What does size have to do with negating GnP? Size and explosion could theoretically help you escape, but that's about it. So if he can't dislodge Brock completely he is going to get pounded.
> 
> Mir really isn't all that smaller than Carwin and is known as being very good off his back.


I didnt think that knee did damage, after that post I had seen a clip here on the forum where he said he saw tweety birds so my thought he wasnt rocked was incorrect....as I stated above......

What Mir does off his back is BJJ, Carwin as I stated above I think can escape more easily because of his size.....size and explosion as u mentioned again.....



joshua7789 said:


> I dont think coming in heavier then usual is going to do anything to help Carwin. The guy doesnt have to cut when he fights (maybe he loses weight prior to his fights, but he doesnt cut in the same sense that brock has to drop ten to fifteen lbs right before weigh ins). Add weight to try and match size with a dude that is naturally much larger then you just does not seem like a good idea to me.


Well he stated he was.....:dunno:


CC420


----------



## GMK13 (Apr 20, 2009)

he got rocked , yes, but by a knee not a fist.


----------



## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

GMK13 said:


> he got rocked , yes, but by a knee not a fist.


What's your point?


----------



## TheGreenMachine (Aug 19, 2009)

BGDDYKWL said:


> Lesnar is the better athlete, glad to see you acknowledge that. Lesnar is most certainly bigger. He's weighed around 285 for his fights, whereas Carwin has weighed in below 265, meaning that's likely what he weighed for his fights. I don't know how you could even attempt to debate that. There was a thread here a couple of weeks back talking about how Lesnar weighed as much as 289 at the time of one of his fights. Carwin weighed 259 for the Gonzaga fight. That's a 30 pound difference.


You do know that Carwin has weighed in at 285 pounds in his past fights right????? I posted the video with his stats for crying out loud.... Plus, you could tell he had some more muscle on too. So don't say he can't because its proven he can and as stated, he plans to for this fight. 
And Carwin, like Brock, doesn't come in at the weight they weigh in at come fight night. Chances are, Carwin was 5-15 pounds heavier than he weighed in for the Gonzaga fight. 




> But if you think Mir rocked him with that huge knee then you can't say he hasn't been tested. It's amazing to me that getting hit by Neil Wain is somehow a positive when making a case for Carwin.



No one is %100 sure what that knee did to Lesnar, but it didn't matter anyway because Mir gave him that takedown the minute he went for the knee which gave him enough time to recover if he was ever even rocked. 

It's not proving something when you simply offer your opinion. Saying Carwin can match Lesnar's size and strength just because you say so isn't proof. I just demonstrated that Lesnar has been much bigger for his fights than Carwin has. That is proof. And they aren't the same in wrestling. That or Carwin isn't terribly bright (and we know that's not the case). If Carwin is as accomplished a wrestler as Lesnar, then why the hell would he stand and trade with guys? Just take them down.[/quote] 

1. No, you did not provide proof, you provided your opinion on his weight. I cited a video on Carwin which counters your argument, but you are too bias to admit that. 

2. Yes, Carwin can match his size (proven above) and strength as evidenced by his physique and numbers thrown around about what each guy can lift. They are about as similar as you are gonna get in terms of fighters. And Carwin stands and trades because that is what his strong suite is. Just because he doesn't use his wrestling a lot doesn't mean it isn't good. GSP is his best on the ground, but if he wants to stand and trade, he has plenty of skill to do so. 





> Lol, it's amazing to me how many people feel that getting rocked is a good thing. How many times has Anderson Silva been rocked? Or Machida? Or GSP? Not getting rocked is a good thing.


Uhhh, you are gonna get hit sometime, I don't care who you are. If you aren't used to being hit by high level fighters, then you stand a chance of being knocked out when you get caught because your chin isn't used to it. 



> Lesnar dropped Mir, broke Herring's face, dropped Couture, and left Mir's face a beaten mess. I don't see how you anyone could say his power is overrated. If anything, his standup is underrated.


Has he ever Koed anyone? 

Exactly.....

He broke Herrings face and he couldn't even finish the guy. He TKOed Randy Couture, a 46 year old fighter with a 50-60+ pound weight disadvantage and massive reach disadvantage plus not having the best standup either. 




> So what if he's a BJJ specialist. To imply that a BJJ guy is going to be better at getting his opponent on his back and ground and pounding him is absurd. That's what wrestlers do. Brock is going to be better at controlling someone when he's on top of them than anyone in MMA.


We have yet to see Brock be on top of ANYONE close to his size, so what you are saying is coming purely from a fanboy perspective. Wait til the Lesnar/Carwin fight before you say he can control anyone better than anyone. I say the reason he has controlled his 4 opponents because they have been much weaker and much lighter.



> Lesnar is a Division I national champ, who Ron Waterman (who knows both guys) says could take him down at will. Why would he specifically say Lesnar could if Carwin also could? Wouldn't he then say both guys could? He didn't though. He made the clear distinction that Lesnar could. "He (Lesnar) was one of the only guys I've trained with that could take me down at will."


As Coldcase said, obvious bias from Waterman. 

Also from the Waterman interview:
Who's stronger, Lesnar or Carwin?
Waterman: I think Brock would have to have the edge on physical strength. He probably walks around a little bit heavier than Shane.[/QUOTE]


Try to look at things from an unbiased point of view dude because its pointless arguing with you. As I said, they are pretty muched matched on everything. Who cases if Lesnar can bench press maybe 10 pounds more or is a Division 1 wrestler (they have both fought the same guys apparently), their stats are matched and any individual advantages each one brings cancel each other out.


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Let the entirely wasted xeberus clear this up, lesnar can obviously take a massive hit and be okay. However, shane can hit hard enough to KO him in 1 punch. It just depends, but obviously the odds are large that he will never land that punch and shane is going to lose to brock.


----------



## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

TheGreenMachine said:


> And Carwin, like Brock, doesn't come in at the weight they weigh in at come fight night. Chances are, Carwin was 5-15 pounds heavier than he weighed in for the Gonzaga fight.


You do realize that cutting is a grueling process right? Why would he cut that far below the weight limit....it doesn't make any sense what-so-ever.





No one is %100 sure what that knee did to Lesnar, but it didn't matter anyway because Mir gave him that takedown the minute he went for the knee which gave him enough time to recover if he was ever even rocked. 






TheGreenMachine said:


> Has he ever Koed anyone?
> 
> Exactly.....
> 
> He broke Herrings face and he couldn't even finish the guy. He TKOed Randy Couture, a 46 year old fighter with a 50-60+ pound weight disadvantage and massive reach disadvantage plus not having the best standup either.


He's a 290lb man with huge fists and unreal speed for his size. It's not hard to imagine he has a lot of power. Just because he hasn't KO'd anyone on his feet doesn't mean he can't.






TheGreenMachine said:


> We have yet to see Brock be on top of ANYONE close to his size, so what you are saying is coming purely from a fanboy perspective. Wait til the Lesnar/Carwin fight before you say he can control anyone better than anyone. I say the reason he has controlled his 4 opponents because they have been much weaker and much lighter.


 Carwin is closer to Mir in size than he is to Lesnar.







TheGreenMachine said:


> Who cases if Lesnar...is a Division 1 wrestler (they have both fought the same guys apparently),


Ummm there is a huge gap between Div 1 and Div 2. Where did you hear they fought/wrestled the same guys?


----------



## BGDDYKWL (Sep 25, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> You answered your own question it appears.....this man trained with LesNAR he didnt train with Carwin he just knows him you stated......think the guy could be biased perhaps????


Waterman actually currently trains with Carwin, so if anything he'd be biased toward Shane, yet he says Lesnar is the stronger/better athlete, and he can take Waterman down at will, whereas he didn't say Carwin could. For him to say this about the opponent of the guy he's training with makes it legit enough for me. 



TheGreenMachine said:


> You do know that Carwin has weighed in at 285 pounds in his past fights right????? I posted the video with his stats for crying out loud.... Plus, you could tell he had some more muscle on too. So don't say he can't because its proven he can and as stated, he plans to for this fight.
> And Carwin, like Brock, doesn't come in at the weight they weigh in at come fight night. Chances are, Carwin was 5-15 pounds heavier than he weighed in for the Gonzaga fight.


It would make absolutely no sense to cut weight for no reason. Didn't he weigh-in at like 252 for one of his fights? Why on earth would you cut 13 pounds of weight for no reason? No one would believe that. Bottom line is he weighed 260 when he got in the cage for his last fight and Lesnar weighed 285. You can't put on 25 pounds of quality weight in 2-3 months. 



TheGreenMachine said:


> 1. No, you did not provide proof, you provided your opinion on his weight. I cited a video on Carwin which counters your argument, but you are too bias to admit that.


I know Carwin has weighed more in the past. My point is he has weighed under 265 in all of his UFC fights, as little as 252 for one, and 260 in the last one. Brock has been 265 for them all, and 280+ in the cage. Those are the facts.



TheGreenMachine said:


> 2. Yes, Carwin can match his size (proven above) and strength as evidenced by his physique and numbers thrown around about what each guy can lift.


It most certainly was not proven above, and now you're basing their strength on their physiques? That means very little. To be honest their weight lifting numbers don't mean all that much either. I'm talking strictly the strength to out-power someone. Lesnar has an advantage on Carwin there. When a guy in Carwin's camp as we speak says Lesnar is the bigger, stronger athlete, and the better wrestler, I'll take his word for it. 



TheGreenMachine said:


> We have yet to see Brock be on top of ANYONE close to his size, so what you are saying is coming purely from a fanboy perspective.


That opinion comes from what I've observed thus far. Mir weighed 255 for their fight, and Carwin weighed 259.5 for his last fight. 


TheGreenMachine said:


> Wait til the Lesnar/Carwin fight before you say he can control anyone better than anyone.


Are you saying you believe Carwin is or would be better at controlling his opponent than Lesnar? And if not, then who do you feel in the UFC right now would better control their opponent while on top of them than Lesnar?



leifdawg said:


> You do realize that cutting is a grueling process right? Why would he cut that far below the weight limit....it doesn't make any sense what-so-ever.


Exactly.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

BGDDYKWL said:


> Waterman actually currently trains with Carwin, so if anything he'd be biased toward Shane, yet he says Lesnar is the stronger/better athlete, and he can take Waterman down at will, whereas he didn't say Carwin could. For him to say this about the opponent of the guy he's training with makes it legit enough for me.


 
I'd love to read or see a link to that statement considering the guy is training Carwin right now......Not really the type of confidence I would want my coach to have in me...

Although we dont know the context of "said" statement.....

If his coach does feel this way and he expects Brock to try and take Shane down...and have ease in doing so.....it makes me wonder what he is doing to prep Carwin for this??

CC420


----------



## kgilstrap (Dec 3, 2006)

coldcall420 said:


> I'd love to read or see a link to that statement considering the guy is training Carwin right now......Not really the type of confidence I would want my coach to have in me...
> 
> Although we dont know the context of "said" statement.....
> 
> ...


Waterman isn't his coach, he's training with Shane because he has an upcoming fight as well. Shane just brought waterman in for size and pick his brain because he's wrestled with Lesnar. His wrestling coach is whittman I believe


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

kgilstrap said:


> Waterman isn't his coach, he's training with Shane because he has an upcoming fight as well. Shane just brought waterman in for size and pick his brain because he's wrestled with Lesnar. His wrestling coach is whittman I believe


 
So the guy could very well be biased, he toured with the WWE and Lesner and trained with him back in the day, other than Carwin's camp bringing him in for size he has no real reason to tout Carwins wrestling, where as he has known Brok for years........thanks for the info kgilstrap:thumbsup:

CC420

*EDIT:*

Heavy.com: Have you been able to bring anyone into your camp to try and replicate the size of Brock Lesnar?

Shane Carwin: *Yes. We have been doing a "bring your child to the gym" day so we can deal with temper tantrums and irrational thoughts.*

We have brought a lot of big guys in to replicate his size. Ron Waterman and I are training together again and he has great wrestling and size, and a few others.

Coach Whittman has the right game plan for me to beat Brock. It's my job to execute it.

Heavy.com: Are you focused on keeping Lesnar on his feet, where you have a significant advantage in striking?

Shane Carwin: I really don't care where the fight goes. He is not going to be able to lay on top of me like he has against the smaller guys he's faced. He won't have a huge advantage anywhere, so I will be ready for whatever happens.

http://www.heavy.com/post/shane-carwin-interview-600


----------



## BGDDYKWL (Sep 25, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> I'd love to read or see a link to that statement considering the guy is training Carwin right now......Not really the type of confidence I would want my coach to have in me...


Waterman was actually Carwin's high school wrestling coach, and is currently training with him. Waterman also knows Lesnar pretty well from their WWE days, and it sounds like they get along. Seems to be friendly with both. Here's the interview....

Link


----------



## imrik32 (Dec 31, 2006)

Lol at the man above who said if you don't get hit your chin doesn't get used to it. Getting bombs to the chin does not a stronger chin make.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

BGDDYKWL said:


> Waterman was actually Carwin's high school wrestling coach, and is currently training with him. Waterman also knows Lesnar pretty well from their WWE days, and it sounds like they get along. Seems to be friendly with both. Here's the interview....
> 
> Link


 
Thanks dude that was a great read....repped!!!:thumbsup:

CC420

EDIT: gotta spread first....


----------



## TheGreenMachine (Aug 19, 2009)

leifdawg said:


> You do realize that cutting is a grueling process right? Why would he cut that far below the weight limit....it doesn't make any sense what-so-ever


LOL, what are you talking about? Where did I ever say he cut "that far below the weight limit?" Please, show me where or the numbers? Carwin made weight for the Gonzaga fight at 260. Lesnar was at 265 for his weigh ins, a 5 pound weight difference. Both guys can gain 10-15 pounds of water weight back easily within that day. Carwin has come in slightly smaller in the UFC than he has in his past, but that is only to gain a little extra speed as he stated himself. 





> No one is %100 sure what that knee did to Lesnar, but it didn't matter anyway because Mir gave him that takedown the minute he went for the knee which gave him enough time to recover if he was ever even rocked.


Thanks for reiterating what I said lol. Read above, because that is alost 100% what I said. 




> He's a 290lb man with huge fists and unreal speed for his size. It's not hard to imagine he has a lot of power. Just because he hasn't KO'd anyone on his feet doesn't mean he can't.


Fist size has nothing to do with KO power. There are plenty of big guys out there who have large fist, but lack KO power. Lesnar couldn't knock out Couture who had a significant reach disadvantage or Heath Herring with his first punch. Lesnar's huge no doubt, but his standup is nothing special. And if he can't knock out Herring, don't expect him to knock out Carwin who is much bigger, stronger, and has shown he can take a hit. 




> Carwin is closer to Mir in size than he is to Lesnar.



No man. Mir weighs in at 245-255 his last fight. Carwin weighs in at just 260 for the weigh in, plus the added water weigh which you can tell he gained by fight night. Everyone isn't just coming him to Lesnar for kicks and giggles you know. Plus, Carwin packs a lot more muscle than Mir. 




















> Ummm there is a huge gap between Div 1 and Div 2. Where did you hear they fought/wrestled the same guys?


It was explained in another forum how the gap between Div 1and Div 2 isn't just based on skill, its based on the school largely, money, and scholarships. I go to a school that is making the transition to Div 1, and its largely based on money. If you have the money to put into the program, then the good athletes will come. The reason why a lot of athletes also go to Div 1 schools is because they give out scholarships and other good wrestlers go to Div 2 schools because they don't have the money to attend the bigger schools which are more expensive. Matt Hamill is a Div 3 athlete for example and look at his record. That was largely based on the fact that he chose to go to a school for the deaf even though he could have went to a Div 1 school if he wanted to. 


So just because you are a Div 2 wrestler doesn't mean you are bad at all and it also means that there is just as much skill there. I am not denying the fact that the Div 1 wrestlers have more of an advantage because I believe they do too, but not as much are you are saying. As for the "they fought the same opponents", I will find the link where I heard that at for you.


----------



## TheGreenMachine (Aug 19, 2009)

BGDDYKWL said:


> It would make absolutely no sense to cut weight for no reason. Didn't he weigh-in at like 252 for one of his fights? Why on earth would you cut 13 pounds of weight for no reason? No one would believe that. Bottom line is he weighed 260 when he got in the cage for his last fight and Lesnar weighed 285. You can't put on 25 pounds of quality weight in 2-3 months.


Ummm, you can't have it both ways dude. Lesnar weighed in at 265 for his last fight too. He gained that 20 pounds of weight back through water weight. So if Lesnar did, what makes you believe that Carwin didn't when history and pictures show he did? Don't be a hypocrite here. Both guys come in heavier than they weigh in for the fight.




> I know Carwin has weighed more in the past. My point is he has weighed under 265 in all of his UFC fights, as little as 252 for one, and 260 in the last one. Brock has been 265for them all, and 280+ in the cage. Those are the facts.


Where is your proof of the 252? If he did, then that was his first appearance in the Octagon which is history. 

Carwin Vs. Neil Wain (Video says 264+the water weight by fight night) 
http://mixedmartialartvideos.com/shane-carwin-vs-neil-wain-video-ufc-89/

For the Gonzaga fight, he was 259.5 when weighed in plus the extra water weight. 



> It most certainly was not proven above, and now you're basing their strength on their physiques? That means very little. To be honest their weight lifting numbers don't mean all that much either. I'm talking strictly the strength to out-power someone. Lesnar has an advantage on Carwin there. When a guy in Carwin's camp as we speak says Lesnar is the bigger, stronger athlete, and the better wrestler, I'll take his word for it.


Randy Couture could stuff Lesnar's takedowns and he weighed less than 50-60 pounds less than Lesnar. What makes you think Carwin, also a good wrestler, stronger than Randy, and similar size to Lesnar, can't? 




> That opinion comes from what I've observed thus far. Mir weighed 255 for their fight, and Carwin weighed 259.5 for his last fight.


The difference is, Carwin has the muscle and size already to come in heavier. He mostly cuts water weight because he walks around much heavier than 260. Mir doesn't. 




> Are you saying you believe Carwin is or would be better at controlling his opponent than Lesnar? And if not, then who do you feel in the UFC right now would better control their opponent while on top of them than Lesnar?


No, I am saying that we have yet to see Lesnar on top of or control someone of similar size and strength to himself to tell if he is really as good on the ground as he is made out to be.


----------



## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

TheGreenMachine said:


> LOL, what are you talking about? Where did I ever say he cut "that far below the weight limit?" Please, show me where or the numbers? Carwin made weight for the Gonzaga fight at 260. Lesnar was at 265 for his weigh ins, a 5 pound weight difference. Both guys can gain 10-15 pounds of water weight back easily within that day. Carwin has come in slightly smaller in the UFC than he has in his past, but that is only to gain a little extra speed as he stated himself.


You obviously don't understand weight cutting. You only put water weight back on if you cut weight. Also it would be retarded to cut an additional 5.5lbs below the limit because cutting drains your system. So in all likelyhood he didn't cut at all so that means he wouldn't have added any significant water weight.







TheGreenMachine said:


> Fist size has nothing to do with KO power. There are plenty of big guys out there who have large fist, but lack KO power. Lesnar couldn't knock out Couture who had a significant reach disadvantage or Heath Herring with his first punch. Lesnar's huge no doubt, but his standup is nothing special. And if he can't knock out Herring, don't expect him to knock out Carwin who is much bigger, stronger, and has shown he can take a hit.


Fist size by itself doesn't mean more KO power, however it increases the chances of hitting the guy on the button.
Heath Herring - Brock went in with a gameplan of trying to get as much octagon time as possible while inflicting as much pain as possible. After the intial flurry Brock never really made an effort to end the fight. Also Herring is a notorious hard guy to finish.

Couture - Brock rocked him with a glancing shot and then finished it all the ground.

Mir - Did you see Mir's face after the fight? And those were just little short punches.

So while he hasn't knocked anyone out yet, for him not to have KO power would be an incredible physical anomaly.







TheGreenMachine said:


> No man. Mir weighs in at 245-255 his last fight. Carwin weighs in at just 260 for the weigh in, plus the added water weigh which you can tell he gained by fight night. Everyone isn't just coming him to Lesnar for kicks and giggles you know. Plus, Carwin packs a lot more muscle than Mir.


Read my above comments regarding water weight and cutting. As for the pics, not sure about the Mir picture but the Carwin pic is definitely old (not a UFC octagon). Plus the two picture are shot a different angles and distances.








TheGreenMachine said:


> It was explained in another forum how the gap between Div 1and Div 2 isn't just based on skill, its based on the school largely, money, and scholarships. I go to a school that is making the transition to Div 1, and its largely based on money. If you have the money to put into the program, then the good athletes will come. The reason why a lot of athletes also go to Div 1 schools is because they give out scholarships and other good wrestlers go to Div 2 schools because they don't have the money to attend the bigger schools which are more expensive. Matt Hamill is a Div 3 athlete for example and look at his record. That was largely based on the fact that he chose to go to a school for the deaf even though he could have went to a Div 1 school if he wanted to.
> 
> 
> So just because you are a Div 2 wrestler doesn't mean you are bad at all and it also means that there is just as much skill there. I am not denying the fact that the Div 1 wrestlers have more of an advantage because I believe they do too, but not as much are you are saying. As for the "they fought the same opponents", I will find the link where I heard that at for you.


Yes there are definitely a few exceptions to the Div 1 vs the lower divisions. But in general the talent at Div 1 is far superior. So even if you are an exception in a lower division, you will be facing inferior competition.



TheGreenMachine said:


> Ummm, you can't have it both ways dude. Lesnar weighed in at 265 for his last fight too. He gained that 20 pounds of weight back through water weight. So if Lesnar did, what makes you believe that Carwin didn't when history and pictures show he did? Don't be a hypocrite here. Both guys come in heavier than they weigh in for the fight.


Again see my comments about cutting and water weight.



TheGreenMachine;1010465For the Gonzaga fight said:


> Do you feel stupid yet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

Carwin weighed in at 253 lbs for his first UFC fight IIRC. He will not come in over 260 lbs for this fight. Carwin is not larger than Lesnar.

IIRC Randy was dropped by punch that was behind the ear and then was pounded out and Mir was also pounded out on the ground. Lesnar also broke Herring's orbital bone, so that same punch landing on the jaw would of probably been a 1 shot ko.

Anyways, Lesnar's game plan in the Herring fight was to pace himself and do a ton of damage. Mainly to get more experience.


----------



## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

Blitzz said:


> Carwin weighed in at 253 lbs for his first UFC fight IIRC. He will not come in over 260 lbs for this fight. Carwin is not larger than Lesnar.
> 
> IIRC Randy was dropped by punch that was behind the ear and then was pounded out and Mir was also pounded out on the ground. Lesnar also broke Herring's orbital bone, so that same punch landing on the jaw would of probably been a 1 shot ko.
> 
> Anyways, Lesnar's game plan in the Herring fight was to pace himself and do a ton of damage. Mainly to get more experience.


Repped!


----------



## TheGreenMachine (Aug 19, 2009)

leifdawg said:


> You obviously don't understand weight cutting. You only put water weight back on if you cut weight. Also it would be retarded to cut an additional 5.5lbs below the limit because cutting drains your system. So in all likelyhood he didn't cut at all so that means he wouldn't have added any significant water weight.


LOL, I follow bodybuilding and do it, so I understand weight cutting dude. Yes, its harder to put back on water weight if you haven't cut an amount of fat/muscle, but Carwin has already stated that when he first came into the UFC, he wanted to come in lighter and faster for his first fight so he ate cleaner and didn't have to cut much muscle/fat to make weight. For this fight, he has already said he plans on coming in heavier. According to most on here, he weighed in at 252 for his first UFC fight (no evidence yet though). For the Neil Wain fight he came in at 265 (link above). For the Gonzaga fight he was 259.5 at weigh in time, so he has the ability to gain and put on weight at his will. And if you know anything about weightlifting or bodybuilding, putting on a ton of waterweight at their size (HWs) is easy to do. I've put on 3-5 pounds of water weight within a day or two and I am nowhere near their size. 

Also take into account that they are probably on diuretics to flush some extra water out of their system, so they can easily bloat back up by carbing up and drinking a ton of water by fight night because of the diuretics. Add in the fact that Lesnar carries a lot more fat on him than Carwin and Carwin comes in at a lower bodyfat % and you have a negligible weight difference. 

As I said, this fight is about as evenly matched as they get. You don't get that? 



> Fist size by itself doesn't mean more KO power, however it increases the chances of hitting the guy on the button. Heath Herring - Brock went in with a gameplan of trying to get as much octagon time as possible while inflicting as much pain as possible. After the intial flurry Brock never really made an effort to end the fight. Also Herring is a notorious hard guy to finish.


I agree that it increases the chances of hitting someone, hence why Carwin has a good chance of knocking Lesnar out, but the fact is Lesnar has never finished anyone or shown good standup or striking power in his fights besides the Herring punch. 




> Couture - Brock rocked him with a glancing shot and then finished it all the ground.


Which is a TKO, not a KO. And as stated before, which guy had the 10 inch reach advantage to even make that shot possible? Brock. 



> Mir - Did you see Mir's face after the fight? And those were just little short punches.


Mir bleeds easy, but what does having a blood face after the fight have to do with KO power? Brock didn't want to stand and fight with Mir of all people. 



> So while he hasn't knocked anyone out yet, for him not to have KO power would be an incredible physical anomaly.


Not really. The man is a natural wrestler, not a natural striker. No doubt he has power, but against guys with good or decent chins, he doesn't seem to have KO power. 




> Read my above comments regarding water weight and cutting. As for the pics, not sure about the Mir picture but the Carwin pic is definitely old (not a UFC octagon). Plus the two picture are shot a different angles and distances.


I know, but they were to illustrate the fact that Carwin carries a lot more muscle on his frame than Mir. I have recent ones of Carwin if you want or you could just use google and common sense. 




> Yes there are definitely a few exceptions to the Div 1 vs the lower divisions. But in general the talent at Div 1 is far superior. So even if you are an exception in a lower division, you will be facing inferior competition.


Not necessarily. Sherk never wrestled in college or was a Div 1 athlete and he is known for his wrestling in the UFC. GSP never wrestled in college either and wasn't he invited to train with the Canadian Olympic team? I'm not denying the skills of Div 1 athletes, but there are other alternative routes to being good wrestlers including Div 2 and 3 schools as Carwin and Hamill seem to show. 





> Do you feel stupid yet?


I'm too busy laughing at the Lesnar fanboys. I think this fight is about as evenly matched as they come and unlike most of you, I am not actively hating on Lesnar or Carwin. I personally hope Carwin wins, but I am not denying Lesnar's skills either. Hell, the gym I train at is under Lesnar's training coach Eric Paulson (CSW). 




> Randy is an olympic caliber wrestler. He also is a greco guy as opposed to a freestyle wrestler like Brock/Shane


It doesn't change the fact that weight and strength come into play. Yes, Carwin's wrestling isn't at the same level as Randy's, but he also has a significant size and strength advantage to make up for it. 



> If you were a college wrestling fan in the late 90s you actually did.


I wasn't aware that they fought in a cage, striked, or did submissions in college wrestling. 

Does Brock have a wrestling advantage? Yes. But has Brock really displayed any really technical or diverse wrestling while in the UFC? Not really, he just sticks to straight hammer fist most of the time which kind of makes him predictable.





Blitzz said:


> Carwin weighed in at 253 lbs for his first UFC fight IIRC. He will not come in over 260 lbs for this fight. Carwin is not larger than Lesnar.


How can you say that when he weighed in at 265 and 259.5 for his last two fights? Mir was 255 for his fight with Lesnar and Carwin packs a lot more muscle, mass, and strength than Mir.


----------



## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

TheGreenMachine said:


> LOL, I follow bodybuilding and do it, so I understand weight cutting dude. Yes, its harder to put back on water weight if you haven't cut an amount of fat/muscle, but Carwin has already stated that when he first came into the UFC, he wanted to come in lighter and faster for his first fight so he ate cleaner and didn't have to cut much muscle/fat to make weight. For this fight, he has already said he plans on coming in heavier. According to most on here, he weighed in at 252 for his first UFC fight (no evidence yet though). For the Neil Wain fight he came in at 265 (link above). For the Gonzaga fight he was 259.5 at weigh in time, so he has the ability to gain and put on weight at his will. And if you know anything about weightlifting or bodybuilding, putting on a ton of waterweight at their size (HWs) is easy to do. I've put on 3-5 pounds of water weight within a day or two and I am nowhere near their size.


Cutting for body building and cutting for combat sports are completely different things.



TheGreenMachine said:


> Also take into account that they are probably on diuretics to flush some extra water out of their system, so they can easily bloat back up by carbing up and drinking a ton of water by fight night because of the diuretics. Add in the fact that Lesnar carries a lot more fat on him than Carwin and Carwin comes in at a lower bodyfat % and you have a negligible weight difference.


I'm pretty sure diuretics are on the banned substance list. 

Adding extra water weight or carbing up isn't going to help you at all if you didn't actually cut weight.

Brock might have a higher fat %, but he also has more lean muscle as opposed to Carwin's bullk muscle. Lean muscles have proven time and again to me more effective in athletic competition.



TheGreenMachine said:


> As I said, this fight is about as evenly matched as they get. You don't get that?


 Carwin has a punching power advantage, I give Brock the significant advantage in every other category.





TheGreenMachine said:


> I agree that it increases the chances of hitting someone, hence why Carwin has a good chance of knocking Lesnar out, but the fact is Lesnar has never finished anyone or shown good standup or striking power in his fights besides the Herring punch.
> 
> Which is a TKO, not a KO. And as stated before, which guy had the 10 inch reach advantage to even make that shot possible? Brock.
> 
> Mir bleeds easy, but what does having a blood face after the fight have to do with KO power? Brock didn't want to stand and fight with Mir of all people.


He's only had 4 fights, give it time. If that punch on Herring hits on the jaw he's going lights out. It broke his orbital bone and sent him flying halfway across the room.





TheGreenMachine said:


> Not really. The man is a natural wrestler, not a natural striker. No doubt he has power, but against guys with good or decent chins, he doesn't seem to have KO power.


We're talking about KO power, not skill. If Brock hits a flush shot on the button and the guy didn't go out, it would absolutely be a physical anomaly.



TheGreenMachine said:


> Not necessarily. Sherk never wrestled in college or was a Div 1 athlete and he is known for his wrestling in the UFC. GSP never wrestled in college either and wasn't he invited to train with the Canadian Olympic team? I'm not denying the skills of Div 1 athletes, but there are other alternative routes to being good wrestlers including Div 2 and 3 schools as Carwin and Hamill seem to show.


What part of "there are a few exceptions" did you not understand?



TheGreenMachine said:


> I wasn't aware that they fought in a cage, striked, or did submissions in college wrestling.


The striking is slightly different, but Carwin won't be submitting Brock off his back.



TheGreenMachine said:


> Does Brock have a wrestling advantage? Yes. But has Brock really displayed any really technical or diverse wrestling while in the UFC? Not really, he just sticks to straight hammer fist most of the time which kind of makes him predictable.


If it ain't broke why fix it? Brock is the only world class athlete in the division.

Look at Big Nog. How often do you see him going for flying armbars or gogoplatas. The basics if executed perfectly are often the most succesful techniques.


----------



## turbohall (Aug 6, 2009)

Did any one of you guys above watch TUF 10 the first fight, the smaller guy who was a good wrestler took the big guy down with ease and controlled the whole fight. 

How many fighters do you know KO Herring? 

Brock took Randy down with ease when he tried, he was trying his stand up game more with Randy. 

Carwin will run out of wind like the two big guys in TUF 10, in the second round.

Brock will take some shots in this fight but will put Carwin down a few times, yes I see Carwin getting up but Carwin will not be able to finish Brock.

I say after this fight everyone will look at Carwin and say he reminds me of Tank Abbott. Powerful punch but that is about it.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

turbohall said:


> Did any one of you guys above watch TUF 10 the first fight, the smaller guy who was a good wrestler took the big guy down with ease and controlled the whole fight.
> 
> *How many fighters do you know KO Herring?*
> 
> ...


 
Herring lost via descision....not K/O from Brock....:thumbsup:

CC420


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Thegreenman, if Carwin is weighing in at 260 or under, then he isn't cutting any weight.... lol, why would he cut to 5+ pounds below 265? Makes no sense.


----------



## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

wukkadb said:


> Thegreenman, if Carwin is weighing in at 260 or under, then he isn't cutting any weight.... lol, why would he cut to 5+ pounds below 265? Makes no sense.


Because Carwin is this 300lb behemoth with oil drums for hands and will sub Lesnar from his back.

Come on, nobody cuts past the required weight +/- 1. Carwin is not going to spend extra energy to cut an extra 5 lbs to weigh in at 260 lbs. Carwin can overstate his size all he wants, but people have to look at it logically. He will come in no heavier than 260 lbs and Lesnar will come in around 280-285 lbs come fight time. At the weigh ins, Lesnar WILL make Carwin look small.


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Blitzz said:


> Because Carwin is this 300lb behemoth with oil drums for hands and will sub Lesnar from his back.
> 
> Come on, nobody cuts past the required weight +/- 1. Carwin is not going to spend extra energy to cut an extra 5 lbs to weigh in at 260 lbs. Carwin can overstate his size all he wants, but people have to look at it logically. He will come in no heavier than 260 lbs and Lesnar will come in around 280-285 lbs come fight time. *At the weigh ins, Lesnar WILL make Carwin look small*.


Yup, agreed.


----------



## BGDDYKWL (Sep 25, 2009)

TheGreenMachine said:


> Ummm, you can't have it both ways dude. Lesnar weighed in at 265 for his last fight too. He gained that 20 pounds of weight back through water weight. So if Lesnar did, what makes you believe that Carwin didn't when history and pictures show he did? Don't be a hypocrite here. Both guys come in heavier than they weigh in for the fight.


What are you basing this on other than reaching to attempt to support your argument. There was a thread here a few weeks ago with Lesnar's weight come fight time, and it was as high as 289 I believe. No one would cut below 265 and then put weight back on. It makes zero sense, and no one does it. You ever see Machida weigh-in at like 198. Or GSP come in at 165? It would be moronic. Carwin's obviously a bright guy, so why would he cut more weight than necessary just for fun? I would love to hear that explanation.



TheGreenMachine said:


> Where is your proof of the 252? If he did, then that was his first appearance in the Octagon which is history.


Of course it's history, every previous weigh-in we've discussed is history. His fight against Wellisch he weighed in at 252. It's easy enough to look up if you don't believe me....
Link



TheGreenMachine said:


> For the Gonzaga fight, he was 259.5 when weighed in plus the extra water weight.


You keep mentioning this. No fighter is going to dehydrate themselves when they don't have to. If he weighed 259.5 at the weigh-in, then +/- a couple of pounds that's what he weighed in the ring. Maybe Penn will weigh-in for UFC 107 at 149....



TheGreenMachine said:


> And if you know anything about weightlifting or bodybuilding, putting on a ton of waterweight at their size (HWs) is easy to do. I've put on 3-5 pounds of water weight within a day or two and I am nowhere near their size.


He weighed 259.5 for the Gonzaga fight, and up until a month ago he thought he was fighting Cain, who is smaller than him, so I doubt he was in a bulking phase. Meaning, he had 2.5 months to put on 25 pounds of quality weight, and then cut back down for the weigh-in. It would simply be impossible. 



TheGreenMachine said:


> I'm too busy laughing at the Lesnar fanboys. I think this fight is about as evenly matched as they come and unlike most of you, I am not actively hating on Lesnar or Carwin.


The problem is you are confusing the most even matchup with it being an even matchup. Is Carwin the closest thing to Lesnar in the HW division? Sure. But that doesn't make it an even matchup.



TheGreenMachine said:


> Does Brock have a wrestling advantage? Yes. But has Brock really displayed any really technical or diverse wrestling while in the UFC? Not really, he just sticks to straight hammer fist most of the time which kind of makes him predictable.


So what if it's predictable? The bottom line is no one can do anything about it. He doesn't need to be terribly diverse when what he is good at allows him to dominate fights.


----------



## turbohall (Aug 6, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Herring lost via descision....not K/O from Brock....:thumbsup:
> 
> CC420


You must not understood my question, everyone says Brock couldn't KO Herring and I asked how many people have KO Herring. Far as I know nobody has really KO him.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

turbohall said:


> You must not understood my question, everyone says Brock couldn't KO Herring and I asked how many people have KO Herring. Far as I know nobody has really KO him.


 
My bad dude, I misunderstood, Herring has 5 K/O losses:

1. Ramazan Mezhidov
2. Fedor Emelianenko
3. Mirko Filipovic
4. Sam Greco
5. Iouri Kotchkine

Sorry for the mix-up....:thumbsup:

CC420


----------



## turbohall (Aug 6, 2009)

Oh thanks well 5 guys have KO him in like 40 fights, to me that means he is a very hard guy to KO. So for Brock not to KO him to me don't mean much.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

turbohall said:


> Oh thanks well 5 guys have KO him in like 40 fights, to me that means he is a very hard guy to KO. So for Brock not to KO him to me don't mean much.


 

28-15 with 1 no conest...Dude I'm not trying to argue with you but Brock LesNAR(I'm not a Brock fan) shattered Heath Herrings orbital bone which is the hardest bone in the human body......

He did that with one punch.......that means two things.....1st There is a ton of ability to k/o and if that punch landed say on Herrings cheek, I'd bet his lights would have gone out......

2nd How tough is Frank Mir who ate probably 30 of those to the face???


CC420:thumbsup:


----------



## BGDDYKWL (Sep 25, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> My bad dude, I misunderstood, Herring has 5 K/O losses:
> 
> 1. Ramazan Mezhidov
> 2. Fedor Emelianenko
> ...





turbohall said:


> Oh thanks well 5 guys have KO him in like 40 fights, to me that means he is a very hard guy to KO. So for Brock not to KO him to me don't mean much.


I think we're all on the same page with this, I just wanted to elaborate a bit. Herring's loss to Mezhidov was due to a cut (TKO), his loss to Emelianenko was a doctor stoppage after the 1st round (TKO), his loss to Greco was due to a knee injury (TKO), and he actually beat Kotchkine by TKO. So his only actual TKO loss (meaning he was too hurt to continue) was against Cro Cop (and it wasn't even a shot to the head, it was a liver kick that put him down, followed by ground and pound).


----------

