# ***OFFICIAL*** Randy Couture vs. Brandon Vera Pre/Post Fight MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS



## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

*Please conduct ALL of your discussion in regards to Randy "The Natural" Couture facing Brandon "The Truth" Vera in this thread. All threads made in regards to this fight will be merged into this one.*​


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Dunno for some reason I sense Vera will TKO Randy in this fight. This is a dangerous fight for em. But I want to see Randy win so he can fight against Machida. If he loses it won't be pretty...


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Randy's reaction time is shot if Vera decides to actually throw he will TKO Randy in the first or second.


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

osmium said:


> Randy's reaction time is shot if Vera decides to actually throw he will TKO Randy in the first or second.


Yah it's true. Like that shot he took against Brock and in the fight with Big Nog. When he got knocked down everything seemed like in slow motion...before, during and after. Great fights though, but can't beat Father Time. Lets see what kind of a plan he comes up with.


----------



## T.Bone (Oct 15, 2008)

If Vera can stay away from Randy, pepper him and not get taken down, he'll win. 

The chances are Randy will probably get hold of him at some point but for some reason I see Vera taking it...


----------



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Vera has very good greco and Randy will find it very tough to take him down. Randy's chin has been very suspect lately. 

This will be the last time we see Randy in the Octogon as Vera KO's him in the 2nd round.


----------



## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

If the right Vera shows up he should be able to keep the fight standing against Couture and should KO him via HK.


----------



## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

I see Randy breaking Vera's will and finishing him in the 3rd.


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Vera has very good greco and Randy will find it very tough to take him down. Randy's chin has been very suspect lately.
> 
> This will be the last time we see Randy in the Octogon as Vera KO's him in the 2nd round.


I think Vera can take this and he should, but I doubt this will be the last we see of Randy. He can have a fight with Coleman or something after this.

Vera sucks at pressure. If Couture can pressure him, he could wilt.

This fight isn't very appealing. What the hell has Vera done lately?


----------



## Scorch (Apr 2, 2007)

I think if COuture can avoid Vera's striking, and use his wrestling to get it to the ground, I think he's got it won. 

I'll go with Couture via UD.


----------



## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

If Randy fights a Randy fight, he'll win, probably scoring some nice slams and takedowns en route to a solid decision.


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

I think Vera will take this. He is a new and refocused fighter now and his precise Muay Thai striking should be better than Randy's old man tactics.


----------



## Jesy Blue (May 8, 2009)

what has he done to refocus may i ask?
he's lost to Jardine, beat a nobody and had to go to a discision against a guy who had 3 fights in 4 months.

but honestly i want to know how he is refocused?


----------



## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Couture by old man strength.


----------



## CopperShark (May 13, 2006)

Nick_V03 said:


> Couture by old man strength.


This is accurate. 

I think Couture gets the takedown, and finishes Vera late in the fight.


----------



## tecnotut (Jan 2, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Randy's chin has been very suspect lately.


His whole head has been very suspect lately. I think LHWs are too fast for Randy, and HWs are too big and strong for Randy. But for some reason, I always still root for him.


----------



## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

"The Truth" has to face the truth that he doesn't belong in same cage with Randy. Randy by TKO on 2nd. ^^


----------



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Damone said:


> I think Vera can take this and he should, but I doubt this will be the last we see of Randy. He can have a fight with Coleman or something after this.
> 
> Vera sucks at pressure. If Couture can pressure him, he could wilt.
> 
> This fight isn't very appealing. What the hell has Vera done lately?


I dont think this fight is that great either, but its free.

As much as I dont trust Vera, I just didnt like the way Randy's striking looked against Nog. He got knocked down several times which is very unlike Randy. But your seeing that with alot of the older fighters. Their chins seeem to go with age.

I see Randy pressing the action against Vera, leaving himself open and getting dropped. That will be 3 losses in a row. I dont think anyone will want to see Randy fight after that. He wont be relevant anymore.

But who knows. Maybe it was more Nog looking great, than it was Randy looking old. I happen to think it was a little of both, and I also think Vera is a tough matchup for Randy. But if Randy can close the distance and get Vera on his back, he could have a good night. And with a win over Vera, maybe they would match him up with Anderson. I actually think Randy wouldnt do that bad against Anderson. That might sound crazy, but Randy's wrestling could give Silva trouble for a few rounds. In a 3 round fight all he would have to do is outwrestle Silva for 2 rounds, then survive the 3rd. Tell me that wouldnt be awesome.

To me, the biggest mistake of Randy's career was retiring after beating Gonzaga. The Randy Couture that entered the cage that night was the best Randy there ever was. When finally got back in the ring against Brock, he clearly wasnt the same fighter. You could see that age was starting to catch up with him, even at the weigh in. 

I just think if het gets finished in this fight, or gets beat handily. There isnt much left for him to do in the sport.


----------



## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

Damone said:


> I think Vera can take this and he should, but I doubt this will be the last we see of Randy. He can have a fight with Coleman or something after this.
> 
> Vera sucks at pressure. If Couture can pressure him, he could wilt.
> 
> This fight isn't very appealing. What the hell has Vera done lately?


Nothing, which is why they are putting Couture against him. I think the UFC desparately wants Couture to get a win but he is such a big name they can't put him against a real can. Vera is the "can-iest" fighter available. I think Vera will beat him anyway, Randy has looked very slow in his last two fights. 

The sad part is a win against Vera will probably be enough to earn Randy a title shot if he pulls it off which is why I'm rooting so hard for Vera.


----------



## The Legacy (Aug 14, 2008)

Couture via a decision win. Vera will start off cautiously and try to put combinations together. He could win the whole fight by doing that over and over but I think Couture will get a few takedowns and make Vera suffer. 

I don't know about you guys, but I still love seeing Couture compete. Sure, he isn't what he was, but to see an athlete like him competing at 46 and looking like he does, it's amazing. The fight against Nogueira was terrific, seriously up there for fight of the year honours. 

I'll be cheering for Randy.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

****Official**Randy Couture Vs Brandon Vera Tape Delay Disscussion Thread NO SPOILERS*

This thread is for those watching on tape delay to discuss the fights without having the results given away, absolutly no spoilers allowed in this thread. It will be merged with the official discussion thread following the tape delay airing of the event.


----------



## Shoegazer (Jun 23, 2007)

I get the feeling Vera is going to play Gonzaga, and Randy plays himself.


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Damn hat stealers lol


----------



## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Haha. Randy really got mobbed didn't he! Looked quite annoyed by it. Someone even tried to steal his towel, amazed he got to the octagon with his t-shirt still on his back.


----------



## Guymay (Jul 6, 2009)

Vera by SD imo


----------



## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

Vera UD 29-28 imo


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Damn, I don't know who should win that fight.


----------



## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

Couture 29-28 UD.


----------



## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

Wtf Bullshit Decision Was That???!!!


----------



## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.


----------



## GeGGosbg (Apr 22, 2007)

29 - 28 Vera in my opinion....


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

diablo5597 said:


> Wtf Bullshit Decision Was That???!!!


A decent one.

Randy obvious won the first round. Vera gets the second and Randy won 3-4 minutes of the final round, Vera got the take down which made it close but he couldn't do anything after the takedown.


----------



## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

Randy pretty much dominated the fight except for a few moments.


----------



## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

Horrible decision! I'm glad Rogan and Vera acknowledged how the judges fuked up at the end of the fight.


----------



## HaVoK (Dec 31, 2006)

Randy didnt do anything. No damage just clinching. Brandon landed the more damaging shots and got the only take down. Randy tried for a take down the whole fight and got 0. I like Randy just as much as the next guy but Brandon got ROBBED!


----------



## HaVoK (Dec 31, 2006)

Blitzz said:


> Randy pretty much dominated the fight except for a few moments.


Your definition of dominated clearly differs from mine and thousands of others. The judges agreed apparently.


----------



## Guymay (Jul 6, 2009)

CnP = Clinch and pray


----------



## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

HaVoK said:


> Randy didnt do anything. No damage just clinching. Brandon landed the more damaging shots and got the only take down. Randy tried for a take down the whole fight and got 0. I like Randy just as much as the next guy but Brandon got ROBBED!


I honestly think the judges played favorites. I thought Shogun won but I can understand how they gave it to Machida. But this!? I don't know how anyone can say Randy won that fight. Pure robbery! I really think the Judges should be fired and investigated. It wouldn't be the 1st time in sports that a judge profited from fights.


----------



## Shoegazer (Jun 23, 2007)

I had it a draw.

Rd 1: Couture
Rd 2: Vera
Rd 3: even

I don't see it as a bad decision. But Randy wins by reputation, apparently?


----------



## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

diablo5597 said:


> I honestly think the judges played favorites. I thought Shogun won but I can understand how they gave it to Machida. But this!? I don't know how anyone can say Randy won that fight. Pure robbery!


To be fair, Vera didn't really convincingly pick Randy apart they way Shogun did with Machida. I wanted expected wanted Vera to win but he didn't look sharp out there.


----------



## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

That was one of the most boring fights I have ever seen and think the decison could have gone either way. Randy won round 1 for sure, Vera round 2 and the last round could have gone to either guy, but all that pressing on the cage was way too freaking boring!


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

HaVoK said:


> Your definition of dominated clearly differs from mine and thousands of others. The judges agreed apparently.


Randy dominated octagon control and was the aggressor. By UFC rules he should have won the fight although it could have gone either way due to Vera's takedown late in the 3rd. Randy was able to get back up though and Vera did no damage while there. 

Randy won round 1
Vera won round 2

You could argue a point for either fighter winning round 3 but Couture controlled about 4 of the 5 minutes and got the decision because of it.


----------



## deanmzi (Oct 15, 2006)

Shoegazer said:


> I had it a draw.
> 
> Rd 1: Couture
> Rd 2: Vera
> ...


I could see that , I will have to re-watch the last round, Vera really didn't much in the first few minutes, but not sure if Randy did enough to win


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Yeah I could actually have seen that fight called a draw. Very close decision.


----------



## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

Did Randy hurt Vera once in that fight? I don't think so. He landed some weak shots from the clinch and held him up against the cage doing nothing most the fight. Vera had Randy badly hurt a few times. Does damage not mean anything to the judges?


----------



## the ultimate (Mar 5, 2007)

Randy did no damage and basically held on to Vera while Brandon hurt him repeatedly and got the take-down.


----------



## name goes here (Aug 15, 2007)

I don't know how the criteria could work out like this. I hope the judges aren't English. Striking is Vera, control - well being on the fence by itself shouldn't count, Randy didn't do anything there.


----------



## DrHouse (Aug 1, 2009)

For me round 2 was definetely Vera, and 1 and 3 were quite debatable and it isn't an outrage to me that the fight went to Randy, he could have won 1 and 3, they were close but that is the flaw in the 10-point must system.

One thing though, even after the victory and even if he has 4 fights left on his contract Randy should retire. Brandon's muay thai is good but not as good as Machida's karate or Shogun's muay thai, Randy would just get knocked out by either quite quickly. Machida is too elusive, I don't know how Randy would even cut the octagon down and clinch him to the fence.


----------



## Aviver (Aug 27, 2009)

it looked like randy was stalling


----------



## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Couture won round 1 and 3, Vera 2. Did anybody not see Couture going upside Vera's head in the third?


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

*Guys I want to remind you all to keep spoilers inside spoiler threads and please if you haven't already read this http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/65663-ufc-105-spoilers-please-read.html*


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

diablo5597 said:


> Did Randy hurt Vera once in that fight? I don't think so. He landed some weak shots from the clinch and held him up against the cage doing nothing most the fight. Vera had Randy badly hurt a few times. Does damage not mean anything to the judges?


He shook him a little bit early in the 3rd round by something. Don't remember what it was but I remember thinking that Couture had the round in the bag until he got taken down.

And I think it is quite obvious that damage has little impact on UFC fights, there are many fights were one fighter does more damage but lose.


----------



## DrHouse (Aug 1, 2009)

diablo5597 said:


> Did Randy hurt Vera once in that fight? I don't think so. He landed some weak shots from the clinch and held him up against the cage doing nothing most the fight. Vera had Randy badly hurt a few times. *Does damage not mean anything to the judges?*


Obviously not, if it did we might have a different LHW champion right now.


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

name goes here said:


> I don't know how the criteria could work out like this. I hope the judges aren't English. Striking is Vera, control - well being on the fence by itself shouldn't count, Randy didn't do anything there.


They're definitely English.


----------



## SSD (Aug 8, 2009)

I scored round 1 to Couture and rounds 2 and 3 to Vera. It was a bad situation and I feel sorry for Vera because he was robbed. The judging situation needs to be overhauled drastically. I just think that with two main events in a row for UFC to have the judges not make the right call (although in close matches), the sport is harmed. Even the crowd thought Vera won that fight. Couture gave a great performance but Vera destroyed him in the 2nd and the last half of the 3rd round. Hell, this is exactly like Machida-Shogun even though no one will point it out since Couture is an American hero. Pathetic.

If I were Couture, I'd retire quickly. He struggled in taking Vera down and didn't get much damage done against the cage. I was rooting for Couture and am a huge Couture fan and even I thought the judges spoiled what should have been an end to an era in this sport and damaged Vera's chance at redeeming his career.


----------



## tomjones (Mar 18, 2007)

It was an awful fight and it was only fitting that there should be an awful decision to go with it.


----------



## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

I scored it 29-28 Couture (rds 1 and 3).


----------



## SSD (Aug 8, 2009)

After this fight, I'd like to see Couture vs. Coleman, battle of the old farts.


----------



## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

Wtf, thats all I can say. Couture never landed a single telling blow the entire fight. He did keep Vera pressed on the cage a lot, and controlled his movement to some extent, but Couture did zero damage, and had nothing resembling a chance to finish the fight.

How the **** do you give Couture the second or third round, which at least 2 of 3 judges would have had to do? The first round he could have won, close, but maybe Couture takes it. The second and third he got knocked down and taken down, with no damage or offense at all on his part.

Vera didn't exactly set the world on fire, and for that he can blame himself, but he won that fight, 29-28. W...t...f.

I'll have to watch this again tomorrow and see if I feel the same way, but, wow, that was baffling.


----------



## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

I thought Shogun beat Machida 48-47 but I wasn't surprised to see Machida's hand raised. This was a close fight but the decision surprised me considerably more than Machida-Shogun. I guess judges rate control more highly than I do. I realize control counts for something but Couture did no damage at all. 

The problem isn't the judges though, it is the scoring system. You can't use the must scoring system for 3 or 5 round fights, it really isn't designed for it. It is meant for fights that are 8+ rounds.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

The main fight for this event was worse than all of the other fights on the card.


----------



## SSD (Aug 8, 2009)

DW should give Vera his win bonus if its in his contract. This was a robbery. Although Vera should have finished the fight and not let it go to the judges, I still feel that rounds 2 and 3 were convincingly in Vera's favour. Hell, Rogan and Goldberg felt it was a robbery too. Its sad when Vera will now have to probably fight a lower tier fight (maybe a prelim) while Couture will continue to, undeservingly, have main event fights. 

I don't think Couture should retire just yet. The fight was close enough for me (although not even a draw) to think Couture deserves at least another match, just not a main event fight. A perfect match would be to match him up with another old Hall of Famer, Mark Coleman for the first time ever. It doesn't have to headline any card but could be a undercard (but still on ppv) match. One hurdle is DW's unwillingness since this match will be interpreted as a joke. Another hurdle is Couture's unwillingness since Coleman, way past his prime, will probably tool and GnP Couture to the point his star could diminish a bit.

Sadly, Couture is now the Ric Flair of the UFC (except for the body). He is past his prime and embarrassing himself and the sport he loves.


----------



## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

name goes here said:


> I don't know how the criteria could work out like this. I hope the judges aren't English. Striking is Vera, control - well being on the fence by itself shouldn't count, Randy didn't do anything there.


I really like Couture but was so damn annoyed seeing him just hold Vera on the cage. I was literally screaming at the ref to break them up.

Each time Randy clinched he would hold Vera for 2 or 3 minutes before the Ref broke them up. That's freakng half the round gone with nothing done! Really hate this fight!


----------



## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

SSD said:


> DW should give Vera his win bonus if its in his contract. This was a robbery. Although Vera should have finished the fight and not let it go to the judges, I still feel that rounds 2 and 3 were convincingly in Vera's favour. Hell, Rogan and Goldberg felt it was a robbery too. Its sad when Vera will now have to probably fight a lower tier fight (maybe a prelim) while Couture will continue to, undeservingly, have main event fights.
> 
> I don't think Couture should retire just yet. The fight was close enough for me (although not even a draw) to think Couture deserves at least another match, just not a main event fight. A perfect match would be to match him up with another old Hall of Famer, Mark Coleman for the first time ever. It doesn't have to headline any card but could be a undercard (but still on ppv) match. One hurdle is DW's unwillingness since this match will be interpreted as a joke. Another hurdle is Couture's unwillingness since Coleman, way past his prime, will probably tool and GnP Couture to the point his star could diminish a bit.
> 
> Sadly, Couture is now the Ric Flair of the UFC (except for the body). He is past his prime and embarrassing himself and the sport he loves.


I agree Vera won but Randy is still pretty good and would beat a lot of fighters still in the HW and LHW division. He will never get another title though. And he can still main and co-main event. He's a fan favorite.


----------



## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

Even though it was high way robbery I am fine with the result now randy needs to either retire or set up a monster showdown with anderson/machida and retire after that...This match proved what we already knew and that is age is catching up to old man couture..Vera easily won the stand up battle and inflicted more damage..The only thing couture could amount was control..All he could ever do is weather an onslaught by pressing vera against the cage...


----------



## Seperator88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Either way you argure, you still have to admit that if Vera couldn't finish Cotoure, this man that you all are claiming should retire and is past his prime, then who gives a shit if he's past him prime. Im tired of people thinking the ufc should keep people around for no reason. Listen, Verra is never gonna be LHW champ with the line up, and obviously he's not going to be HW champs, might as well go to strikeforce in my opinion. The only good part about verra is when he beat Frank Mir, yea suck it!!!!


----------



## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

so pathetic by Randy. He just held him against the cage the whole damn time. I've never been so frustrated with a ref. Wtf.... literally at one point he just held him for almost 2 minutes with nothing.... no strikes, nothing. Vera should win that fight.


----------



## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Wow... I guess way more people were siding with Vera than I thought... I had Randy winning rounds 1 and 3. Vera may have gotten mount, but it was mount down and he did NOTHING with it, not even so much as punch. Randy answered every shot at the end not to mention the beastly combo mid round he threw and almost KO'd Vera, too. I realize Vera rocked Randy in the first, but he didn't drop him and he got controlled the entire round and did nothing else aside from the initial damage... 10 seconds of damage doesn't win a fight IMO. Wasn't nearly the robbery that Joe was on about, but I could've seen people scoring it different ways.


----------



## sicc (Mar 4, 2007)

WTF kind of decision was that?


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Wow more completely awful judging. Most of the fights people call robberies aren't but this was. There is no justification for this decision.


----------



## Tacx0911 (Aug 12, 2009)

Back to back main events in the UFC going into really bad decisions. Athletic comissions should have their judges educated about the sport. Another upsetting result. The UFC should have the right to accept or deny judges who are not capable of doing their jobs right. They can put Big John from officiating the UFC, why not judges who aboslutetly are screwing around with the score cards.


----------



## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

ahh... I've never been so frustrated and disgusted with a fight. So god dammed boring. Everyone say yea yea yea I know why Randy won, octagon control etc. That was trash. That was trash, plain trash. He won by just holding him against the cage the whole time. Vera by far hurt him waaaaaay more, and won almost every single exchange. crap. I love randy, but that fight, and that strategy were total crap, trash. Ah... sorry I'm drunk, and pissed off about this. Vera should have won that, and if the ref was doing his job and breaking up that nonsensical boring garbage, he would have won.


----------



## SlowGraffiti (Dec 29, 2007)

That was awful...I'm ashamed of Randy, all he did was grab and grab. and hold, and hold. He hardly landed any strikes in clinch and Vera rocked him 3 times. Ughh...


----------



## jongurley (Jun 28, 2008)

Thank god I didn't have to pay for this fight card,, they all sucked except for Hardy/swick but that was swick gettting his ass wooped,, I don't agree with the decision either but it was Vera's fault for letting randy keep pinning him to the cage,, the first roudn is what killed vera in points,,


----------



## sicc (Mar 4, 2007)

It's getting to the point that I'm ready to stop watching the UFC. What the **** is this refing situation? These refs are ******* idiots and they had it unanimous to boot, jesus ******* christ.


----------



## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

It isn't the first controversial decision, and it won't be the last.


----------



## YOURMOMWASHERE (Sep 20, 2009)

God dammit that fight pissed me the hell off. Between coutures boring ass cage control and veras complete lack of strength and technique it was a complate borefest. 

Honestly both of these fighters shouldve gotten a loss tonight. This fight was an embarassment to MMA. What does that say about the sport if a "strong" 46 year old grappler can come in and pin a decent muay thai striker like vera to the cage for 3 rounds? Then again the octagon is tailor made for grapplers.

Id rather watch paint dry than watch that fight again. Thank god it was free.


----------



## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Vera got robbed- Great decision- I can hold you against the cage while doing slight damage. Vera landed the only damaging shots but the "hug and pray" works for Randy. :sarcastic12:


----------



## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Wow, i can go back and admit that the Machida/Shogun call wasnt that bad, but this was completely pathetic. Vera got big time screwed. There is absolutely no justification for this. Randy didnt even maintain control the whole time, i dont think pushing someone against the cage and getting your takedowns stuffed should equal a win.


----------



## SlowGraffiti (Dec 29, 2007)

The ref was to partial to Couture. Any other fighter would be broken up waaay waay before. And Couture landed nothing in the clinch, it was pitiful.


----------



## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

This was ten times worse then someone getting a lay N pray win.


----------



## SlowGraffiti (Dec 29, 2007)

lol standing lay n pray. Coutures legacy has taken him far. The ref was scared to break them up, Joe didn't want to critize him doing nothing in the clinch, where he would do it loudly if it were someone else. and then their is the judges, oh my. even the audience, were hesistant to boo. quite the legacy.


----------



## YOURMOMWASHERE (Sep 20, 2009)

17 - 10 now, what a legacy. " not bad for an old man "

I say give him shogun, then when he gets the beat down of his life he can finally retire. Actually shogun could probably knock couture out in the first 30 seconds and they would still give it to couture.


----------



## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Why the hell did it get stood up so fast after Vera dropped Randy, yet the ref allowed them to clinch for about an hour before separating them?


----------



## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

YOURMOMWASHERE said:


> 17 - 10 now, what a legacy. " not bad for an old man "
> 
> I say give him shogun, then when he gets the beat down of his life he can finally retire. Actually shogun could probably knock couture out in the first 30 seconds and they would still give it to couture.


Oh.......so subtle........I'm impressed beyond belief.


----------



## SlowGraffiti (Dec 29, 2007)

I don't know how many times I've seen Joe commentate a fight and say "well he ISN'T REALLY DOING ANYTHING HERE, HE NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING" whenever a fighter holds the other against the clinch and does diddly squat. But Joe could not bring himself to say it this time, unbelieveable. Just "he's implementing his gameplan well". Randy did shit for damage.


----------



## Sterling (Dec 14, 2006)

cheap victory for Randy although I respect him...Brandon Vera won that fight


----------



## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

SlowGraffiti said:


> I don't know how many times I've seen Joe commentate a fight and say "well he ISN'T REALLY DOING ANYTHING HERE, HE NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING" whenever a fighter holds the other against the clinch and does diddly squat. But Joe could not bring himself to say it this time, unbelieveable. Just "he's implementing his gameplan well". Randy did shit for damage.


Lets give Joe credit though, after the decision he said flat out that he thought Vera won and he as much as said so to Randy's face (Were you surprised by the decision? That isn't something you usually ask guys after a fight.)


----------



## YOURMOMWASHERE (Sep 20, 2009)

Drogo said:


> Lets give Joe credit though, after the decision he said flat out that he thought Vera won and he as much as said so to Randy's face (Were you surprised by the decision? That isn't something you usually ask guys after a fight.)


True, randy is a stand up guy.


----------



## SSD (Aug 8, 2009)

Randy stole this and doesn't deserve this victory. In my book, he shouldn't even anywhere near title contention and should have at least 3 or 4 victories in a row to even get that. I say let's see Randy fight some top talent among Rashad Evans, Rampage Jackson (when he comes back from retirement, lol), Thiago Silva, Shogun/Machida (whoever loses in their rematch) to see if he is worthy of the shot. This guy is sooo overated, even Dana White is figuring it out now. For now, I'd like to see Couture vs. Coleman. That way we'll know which one is just too old to be in the UFC.


----------



## Redrum (Jan 30, 2008)

SSD said:


> Randy stole this and doesn't deserve this victory. In my book, he shouldn't even anywhere near title contention and should have at least 3 or 4 victories in a row to even get that. I say let's see Randy fight some top talent among Rashad Evans, Rampage Jackson (when he comes back from retirement, lol), Thiago Silva, Shogun/Machida (whoever loses in their rematch) to see if he is worthy of the shot. This guy is sooo overated, even Dana White is figuring it out now. For now, I'd like to see Couture vs. Coleman. That way we'll know which one is just too old to be in the UFC.


Stole? I'm not sure how you can apply that particular word to what occurred.


----------



## alizio (May 27, 2009)

my 2 cents is it was a very close fight, i knew Randy would get the decision, he is Randy. Vera fought good but you cant let a guy hug you to a cage for a round and a half esp when you have to know its likely you can get screwed over.

Both Vera and Hardy tonight seemed to rock their opponent and then get in way too close and end up in a clinch, fortunately for Hardy it didnt cost him the fight.


----------



## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

How can you argue that Vera won the decision? He did nothing in round 1 minus the 2 second flurry in the beginning, took round 2 handily with the knock down, and got beat standing by randy in round 3? 

29-28 clearly IMO.


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

First of all randy was not just holding Vera against the cage he was controlling Vera, he also was winning the striking inside the clinch I agree none of his striking was putting Vera in serious danger but then that was never the game plan. 

Randy was active and just about every moment inside the clinch he was either attempting a TD or dirty boxing. Its my opinion that you cant lose 4 minutes of a 5 minute round and still expect to win that round unless you do something dramatic that would normally give you a 10-8.

The bottom line is that Vera didn't for whatever reason get away from Randy and strike, I could flip this around and say Vera was the one who did nothing and needed to make something happen in the clinch and thats legitimate.

Its not a robbery when you look at the judging criteria, 

A. clean effective striking.

I think the thing some of you are not taking into consideration is Randy denied him the opportunity to strike and did so for most of every round. I also would like to point out there has to be enough striking to override the rest of the criteria, if there are only two or three exchanges there might not be enough striking to do so. 

B. Aggression. 
Randy was more aggressive in every round.

C. Octagon control.
Randy clearly controlled the fight, if Vera's striking was so effective why didn't he brake away and strike more? Because he couldn't, thats control and that scores.

I actually have the fight scored like this,

10-9 Randy
10-9 Vera
10-10 Draw 

I know that might look strange but thats what I had, Ill watch it again to see if I change my mind.


----------



## robbiebp (Dec 31, 2006)

I thought Brandon might have stolen it based on damage, since the judges seem to love that at the minute. Heard a lot of complaints saying this fight wasn't interesting or exciting but I gotta admit I really enjoyed seeing the technical side of Randy and liked him going back to his wrestling rather than trying to brawl it out.

I personally scored it 30-27 Randy but that doesn't reflect how close the fight was in the last two rounds. Thought Brandon looked great near the end of the second and a lot of the third, he just switched on too late imo.


----------



## Uchaaa (Apr 22, 2007)

I would score it as a no contest. Randy refused to fight.


----------



## GMK13 (Apr 20, 2009)

randy had cage control, i felt like he pushed the fight a little more. i wasn't surprised by randys win.


----------



## The Legacy (Aug 14, 2008)

Controversial. 

This was the least exciting fight of the night but I admit I was surprised when Randy was announced the winner. I'll have to go back and watch it again because my first impression was that Vera won.


----------



## mauro_br (Sep 23, 2009)

When it comes to a point that the president is frequently warning the fighters saying "don't leave it to the judges", something is very wrong..

I really thing they should have a meeting to discuss the judging methods, cause it's more and more controversial in each event


----------



## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

I hate Vera. He didn't even attempt to dictate the fight at all. He let Randy maul him on the cage for 75% of the fight, he didn't take advantage of his clear striking prowess, he nearly breaks Randy's ribs then lays on him after instead of keeping it standing.
It's always wait til next fight for vera.


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

I don't see any problems with the judging or the reffing. Randy won the fight in everyway considering that all Vera did was the 2 second flurry at the start, and the good body kicks in the 2nd. Randy controlled the rest of each round, pushed the pace, wore Vera down, and landed two nice combinations. The fight clearly went to Randy. Yes it was a boring performance, but sometimes fighter's have bad nights. Randy was off tonight.


----------



## streetpunk08 (Jul 15, 2006)

Uchaaa said:


> I would score it as a no contest. Randy refused to fight.


I agree with this it reminded me of the one Mike Tyson fight, I cant remember the opponent but the guy kept clinching and wouldn't fight and he got DQ'd, I seriously woulda warned Randy that he needed to fight, it was a disgrace and I love Randy but it was an absolute disgrace


----------



## kano666 (Nov 2, 2007)

I was confident Randy had taken the decision, so it wasn't a surprise to me. It was a boring fight, though, and that was Randy's doing rather than Vera's. But Vera failed to capitalize on some significant opportunities.

The third round was great, I was dozing off for parts of the first and second but after the third I was like "Damnit, we need another round!"


----------



## wakeboy (Sep 14, 2009)

Everyone whos saying Brandon Vera let randy maul him on the cage is actually retarded. Randy Couture was able to MANHANDLE much bigger opponents such as tim sylvia and he was able to hold his own wrestling against BROCK LESNAR. Couture is still a really strong 47 year old..

Randy didn't want to clinch against the cage the whole fight, he tried numerous take downs but he failed against veras amazing tdd... 

Several mods have been saying that lyoto beat shogun due to him stuffing shoguns td attempts so he kept the fight were he wanted it to be... So in theory this is the complete opposite of the last controversial decision due to Vera stuffing all but one of randys take down but he loses...

Plus if the stupid ref wasnt so leniant to randys style of clinching and let him clinch and make no attempts at doing anything the fight could have been really different. But seriously vera jumped into randys guard after the knockdown and once randy neutralized him they were immediately stood up... It was obvious the ref was even pushing for randy to win this fight... if it wasnt randy couture fighting they would have been seperated 5-6 times more and he would have got ktfo


----------



## xbroseph (Nov 16, 2009)

What all of you fail to understand is that this is a fight! You may have tuned in to see Couture and Vera slug it out but that wasnt the smartest thing for Randy to do. A smart fighter would do exactly what he did. There was no cause for a no contest because Couture fought within the rules. He wasnt "refusing to fight" he was controlling his opponent and working for a take down. Was Muhammad Ali refusing to fight George Foreman with rope a dope? No he was strategically wearing his opponent down.

Couture worked the clinch beautifully. Im guessing none of you have actually fought before since your throwing around words like "disgrace" but it was anything but that. Randy Couture is a wrestler, Brandon Vera is a striker. Its just not wise to strike with a striker. He was clinching, controlling, wearing his oppoent down, and working for the take down. Vera just did a wonderful job at defending. 

Again, it may not have been the slugfest casual fans wanted to see but for someone with a real appreciation for what a fighter goes through I thought it was done very well. Vera would have been better to work more leg kicks, target the body when Couture was hurt and let his hands, elbows, and knees go more. Couture wasnt able to score a good take down but he worked his dirty boxing and clinch game where he could and did enough to win the fight. Case closed.


----------



## argentplowman (Nov 1, 2009)

SSD said:


> After this fight, I'd like to see Couture vs. Coleman, battle of the old farts.


Just might get the chance....

http://mmajunkie.com/news/16888/report-randy-couture-vs-mark-coleman-in-the-works-for-ufc-109.mma


----------



## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Heheh good call SSD!

I didnt know Joe Silva had an account on MMAF


----------



## dacypher (Jul 9, 2009)

I agree with some of the other posters here. Randy didn't want to fight. But I don't blame him. In the end, it is the ref's fault for letting it go on that way. In most fights, when the ref begins to see a pattern of a fighter continuously moving into a non-aggressive position (whether it is against the cage, or going to the ground and not doing anything), they will begin to decrease the time that they allow them to stay there, because they are just wasting time. You will typically see a fighter take someone down and not do anything, and the ref stands them up maybe after about 30 seconds. After a couple of times of that, they will eventually only let them stay there for 5 seconds max. The ref allowed Randy to just hold Brandon against the cage for almost the whole match. 

And the announcers said Randy did exactly what he wanted to. What?! Randy was trying to _take Vera down_ the whole match, and he never did. He did not accomplish what he wanted to do. 

Also, when a fighter comes close to finishing a fight, that should count for a _lot_. I thought the ref was going to stop it when Randy fell to the ground and held his hand up as if not wanting Vera to attack. In fact, most regular US UFC refs would have stopped it there. I can't remember the fighters, but there was a UFC fight not too long ago where a fighter kept getting hit with massive leg kicks, and finally fell to the ground, holding his hand up exactly like Randy did and the ref immediately jumped in and stopped it. 

Anyway, Vera did damage, and Randy didn't do any damage at all. I think the results were ridiculous, and I am not partial to Brandon or Randy. But again, this was the ref's fault. He should have been limiting the amount of time the fighters were spending on the cage unable to do anything.


----------



## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

this last post excellent


----------



## Zuke (Sep 22, 2006)

Ok I am gonna say it.

Randy Couture is nothing special.Other than the fact he is still in GREAT SHAPE for 46. He has no submissions skills. His hands are garbage. He has one great skill in the Roman Greco Wrestling. To this day that is how he still wins. Just boring push guys up against the fence and eek out decisions.

Now I am not gonna say they should keep breaking Randy up when he is just standing n' praying. In fact, I think a fight should never be re-started due to lack of action. You got in to this position, you get out.

He is 17-10 overall. The Dude is 7-7 since 2002. When he started 10-3 he literally fought cans. Vitor Belfort is his only win that stands out. His other may be considered Pedro Rizzo, he has not beat anybody decent either. Actualy, one...Josh Barnett.


All Randy has done is learned to use his Greco in a very efficient way to control people. Thats it. He is not a great fighter. His BEST WIN is CHUCK LIDDELL. He still talks today about how he has game plans and said "it wont be an exciting fight". That is not a fighter. Fighters try to finish fights. You can have a game plan. But the game plan leads to a finish. If your game plan involves a decision...go **** yourself.



LONG STORY SHORT:


Randy got involved way back in the day. Wrestlers ruled. Nobody had seen that kind of control. Randy won the UFC HWY title 2x. Once off Smith who I think may have a .500 record and another off Randleman who should be close to .500 as well. Then he got a title shot against Tim Silvia and won a decision. 

As for his LHW. He beat Ortiz and LIddell.




So here is my question:


What has he done that is so great?


----------

