# How to host an MMA Event (start your own promotion)



## UKMMAGURU

Not sure if we have any posters on this forum who've had any experience doing this before?

Presumably even the smallest of shows would incurr fairly huge costs; Fighters pay, hotels for fighters, travel costs for fighters, staff pay, venue, cage, lighting, recording equipment, advertising the event etc

Have I missed anything?


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## BAMMA UK Guy

Local council regulatory related costs (each are different), insurances, doctor/medics, seating security staff, additional back stage staff such as DJ, fight teams, food (very important ;-) ) Cutmen, ring announcer, rigging staff, and any other incidentals you care to think of. 

A lot of local promoters take a hit on costs very few make a profit, if you want to get into Mma promoting thinking you will make a tonne of money, think again. Moor example for us to stream the Fight Night this past weekend with production would have been 6k. Now ask yourself why we didn't stream live again.


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## No_Mercy

Bamma is right on the money. Biggest expenses was the fighters' purse, venue, insurance, followed by production which includes the rigging, sound + lighting, videographer, dj, and everything in between. That's why it's essential to get sponsorships to subsidize overhead. Rarely does the live gates itself cover costs cuz you have to factor in comps + marketing expenses which vary from show to show. 

- Another expense is renting out a conference room to host the weigh ins and post fight. 
- Fight bonus. There was a $5k CASH KO bonus. 
- marketing is a big one cuz it entails everything from posters, flyers, comp tickets, radio, web marketing, newspapers, to TV ads. 
- security was half free...haha...cuz the local cops rolled through. Not one issue at the event. 
- lighting + sound - $30k (|Told the head promoter/investor that was wayyy too much. He countered that he wanted to put on a great show. While I admired that credo it was to the detriment to the show. I ended up getting paid half my fee...concessions.  ) 

*Note* Some fighters may receive a per diem depending on status on the card and others may be responsible for their own travel accomodations. 

I would suspect that live gates for the UFC covers their costs, then PPV and sponsorships dollars put them over. 

After researching tons of shows mainly in North America I realized that 90% were fiscally insolvent and were in the major red; Affliction, Elite, Bodog, IFL, and even the UFC early on. Only a small show out of San Jose did well called Strikeforce. They kept a lean philosophy and it was home grown so they never strayed far from their home base. I still feel that Scott Coker could replace DW if necessary. He carries himself well and is straight forward. 

Bamma: What kind of sponsorships have you guys gotten and did you guys work out a network deal. Hdnet (Mark Cuban) approached the guys I was working with, but they reneged opting for a better deal. Guess they wanted to go the independent route. But as you know getting eyeballs on your show is vital.

Overall very few will make it in the game. It's extremely top heavy. Very few shows will be able to obtain blue chip sponsorships necessary to sustain the business model.

$100k to produce a small show.
$200k decent size show
$300k quality show with bells and whistles + extra padding in case of over runs

From there you can figure out your BE point and how you should scale your ticket prices. 

PS: How could I forget the most essential cost ===> ring girls.


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## kantowrestler

One thing you could do to at least initially cut costs is maybe do an amateur show. That'll cut down on fighter pay at least. Then once you start getting into the black you could look at expanding.


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## BAMMA UK Guy

Kanto is correct. Most smaller shows do plenty of Am fights as they don't pay the fighters much if at all they earn a percentage of ticket sales. Then they pop a couple 


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## BAMMA UK Guy

Of pro fights on. Oh and another cost title belts which can be anything from a couple of hundred upto about a thousand dependant on the quality.


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## slapshot

Fighters in low profile promotions pay their own costs for travel, training fee's etc. 

All this stuff changes quite a bit state by state, athletic commissions act as conglomerates, they may agree with each other over rules but they are not legally bound to do so.

In my state its easy as hell to start a league and Ive often thought about getting a promoters license as they are only 110$ assuming you get approved.

I thought about starting a fighters union/promotion because MMA is rather large here considering the population but thats what kills it, there's just not enough people to support it locally so I started thinking about putting the fights online for free and living withing the revenue stream coupled with high dues to see if it would pan out.

I just dont have the start up money so at this point Ive been thinking about kickstarter. I would need at least 30g to get going so yeah... pipe dreams


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## kantowrestler

Yeah Bjorn Rebney and Victor Cui both raised money by themselves and have two very successful promotions going right now. If you can get it started up then it might be a success or might not. After all Nick Diaz had a promotion but it only had one show.


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## prospect

slapshot said:


> Fighters in low profile promotions pay their own costs for travel, training fee's etc.
> 
> All this stuff changes quite a bit state by state, athletic commissions act as conglomerates, they may agree with each other over rules but they are not legally bound to do so.
> 
> In my state its easy as hell to start a league and Ive often thought about getting a promoters license as they are only 110$ assuming you get approved.
> 
> I thought about starting a fighters union/promotion because MMA is rather large here considering the population but thats what kills it, there's just not enough people to support it locally so I started thinking about putting the fights online for free and living withing the revenue stream coupled with high dues to see if it would pan out.
> 
> I just dont have the start up money so at this point Ive been thinking about kickstarter. I would need at least 30g to get going so yeah... pipe dreams


Couple of question, ?
If you do invest the 30g will you make any profits at all?? 
Plus would you get any tv rights or something like that. And how much would that cost 
Really interested in doing this Myself


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## slapshot

prospect said:


> Couple of question, &#55357;&#56841;
> If you do invest the 30g will you make any profits at all??
> Plus would you get any tv rights or something like that. And how much would that cost
> Really interested in doing this Myself


You can retain copyrights, the goal would be to make as much profit as possible for the fighters. Profit is much more tricky and in a normal business model even a solid company doesn't turn a profit quickly after start up depending on the market youre in but mostly it takes a wile.

I dont have any projected margins or a business plan, Ive more been thinking about doing the research than actually doing it lol.


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## prospect

slapshot said:


> You can retain copyrights, the goal would be to make as much profit as possible for the fighters. Profit is much more tricky and in a normal business model even a solid company doesn't turn a profit quickly after start up depending on the market youre in but mostly it takes a wile.
> 
> I dont have any projected margins or a business plan, Ive more been thinking about doing the research than actually doing it lol.


So hypothetically if you get the 30g you come out with a loss and don't it again ??
When I say profit. I don't care if it's one dollar ....


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## slapshot

Thats how a lot of them start, as one off tournaments. 

You could produce a event with that amount, you would probably need quite a bit more to sustain a ongoing promotion.


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## No_Mercy

K...whatever state you're in look for Indian reservations unless it's legalized. Casino, hotel ballrooms or cheap 1,000 capacity venues. Then you can get away with some issues that you'll almost overlook, some insurance, tests (ie PEDs) which pretty much are overlooked in smaller orgs, and most importantly whether it's sanctioned or not in the state. Otherwise everything has to be by the books. Each fighter has to be insured and sanctioned by the state to be able to fight in case of potential health issues. 

You can definitely produce a show for $30k, but it's gotta be scaled down dramatically cuz you can't produce it at a 10k venue cuz that's how much your production alone would be. 

- 500-1k venue will set you back $5,000 (might include some in house lighting/sound if you're lucky.) 
- production is ridiculous, but there's ways around it. Sponsorships or renting it and setting it up yourself. No matter what, you'll need at least one technician if you install intelligent lightings or to control the sound board. (lets say minimum $5k which is on the low end.)
- venue might ask you to hire local officers which would be another $1,200 for two or more. 
- venue insurance - depends on your capacity
- a team of 10 security which would be another $1,200 or so, - 16 fighters at least x $1k low end = $16k already. You can go the local route and simply hire all local fighters so you won't have to deal with travel costs, accomodations, and food, but will it draw a crowd now that people are 
accustomed to higher tiered fights. 
- prize money
- bonus money
- belts + trophies
- ring girls
- announcer
- judges
- VIP table set ups
- complimentary drinks or snacks for staff

You're already at $28,400. You see where this is going...

Tickets at $40 a pop. Say you sell out and make $40k without any comps + concession sales. You made $11,600 gross at best case scenario. If you want to do it, you should. It's a great experience either way, but based on this estimation you can see what the risks entail. 

You'll have a completely different perspective of Dana White and the UFC after you produce your own show. 

You gotta have a pro team who know their shit plain and simple. I didn't need anyone to tell me what to do...I knew exactly what needed to be done and complemented what they already had. Our dj and production was almost flawless. One video stalled and the ring announcer believe it was Mauro Renallo came up to us and said what's up and I told em immediately that there was technical difficulties...AND he immediately addressed the crowd by giving shout outs to the sponsors to buy the production time to fix the problem. After a minute everything went as scheduled. Also every single song for the fighters went unhitched. Might sound like it's easy, but I assure you it's not. How many times have you heard the music skip, wrong fighter being announced, or wrong song being played...it happens. But those are all minor elements as opposed to losing your shirt because you didn't have sufficient marketing dollars or the right talent to pull in the numbers. 

Finally make sure you research that there are no other MMA fights going on around the same time or NBA finals, World Cup, hockey, etc.


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## UKMMAGURU

No_Mercy said:


> K...whatever state you're in look for Indian reservations unless it's legalized. Casino, hotel ballrooms or cheap 1,000 capacity venues. Then you can get away with some issues that you'll almost overlook, some insurance, tests (ie PEDs) which pretty much are overlooked in smaller orgs, and most importantly whether it's sanctioned or not in the state. Otherwise everything has to be by the books. Each fighter has to be insured and sanctioned by the state to be able to fight in case of potential health issues.
> 
> You can definitely produce a show for $30k, but it's gotta be scaled down dramatically cuz you can't produce it at a 10k venue cuz that's how much your production alone would be.
> 
> - 500-1k venue will set you back $5,000 (might include some in house lighting/sound if you're lucky.)
> - production is ridiculous, but there's ways around it. Sponsorships or renting it and setting it up yourself. No matter what, you'll need at least one technician if you install intelligent lightings or to control the sound board. (lets say minimum $5k which is on the low end.)
> - venue might ask you to hire local officers which would be another $1,200 for two or more.
> - venue insurance - depends on your capacity
> - a team of 10 security which would be another $1,200 or so, - 16 fighters at least x $1k low end = $16k already. You can go the local route and simply hire all local fighters so you won't have to deal with travel costs, accomodations, and food, but will it draw a crowd now that people are
> accustomed to higher tiered fights.
> - prize money
> - bonus money
> - belts + trophies
> - ring girls
> - announcer
> - judges
> - VIP table set ups
> - complimentary drinks or snacks for staff
> 
> You're already at $28,400. You see where this is going...
> 
> Tickets at $40 a pop. Say you sell out and make $40k without any comps + concession sales. You made $11,600 gross at best case scenario. If you want to do it, you should. It's a great experience either way, but based on this estimation you can see what the risks entail.
> 
> You'll have a completely different perspective of Dana White and the UFC after you produce your own show.
> 
> You gotta have a pro team who know their shit plain and simple. I didn't need anyone to tell me what to do...I knew exactly what needed to be done and complemented what they already had. Our dj and production was almost flawless. One video stalled and the ring announcer believe it was Mauro Renallo came up to us and said what's up and I told em immediately that there was technical difficulties...AND he immediately addressed the crowd by giving shout outs to the sponsors to buy the production time to fix the problem. After a minute everything went as scheduled. Also every single song for the fighters went unhitched. Might sound like it's easy, but I assure you it's not. How many times have you heard the music skip, wrong fighter being announced, or wrong song being played...it happens. But those are all minor elements as opposed to losing your shirt because you didn't have sufficient marketing dollars or the right talent to pull in the numbers.
> 
> Finally make sure you research that there are no other MMA fights going on around the same time or NBA finals, World Cup, hockey, etc.


Thanks. I was going to ask someone to post a cost breakdown.

You really have to question how these small shows are able to keep going event after event when there is virtually no profits to be made, it also puts another slant on the "MMA Fighters are underpaid" argument.


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## prospect

Well let's explore this a bit ?
If you had a budget of say $100g and you want to start a mma promotion .. 
Analyze the money you'll pay and earn.. trying to squeeze as much money as possible 
Keep in mind where I'm from the arena would be sold out all the time


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## UKMMAGURU

prospect said:


> Well let's explore this a bit ?
> If you had a budget of say $100g and you want to start a mma promotion ..
> Analyze the money you'll pay and earn.. trying to squeeze as much money as possible
> Keep in mind where I'm from the arena would be sold out all the time


A small 1000 arena at $30 a ticket is, ofcourse, going to bring you $30,000 and that is IF you can sell out.

Unless you're going to invest heavily is a good card you'd have: Main Event, John Smith (3-3) VS Joe Bloggs (2-2) isn't exactly going to get anybody interested.


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## No_Mercy

prospect said:


> Well let's explore this a bit ?
> If you had a budget of say $100g and you want to start a mma promotion ..
> Analyze the money you'll pay and earn.. trying to squeeze as much money as possible
> Keep in mind where I'm from the arena would be sold out all the time


Anything up to $100k is considered a shoe string budget factoring in what goes into it. Now, if you're looking at starting an MMA promotion then you need to plan long term which entails branding.

- logo
- website + domain registration 
- web master to update the pages
- customized mailers
- shirts, uniforms, ring girl outfits *optional
- oh yah...the cage alone costs $8k for a used one unless you want to rent one, but that's tough. Most production companies don't carry the material so you'd have to import it from another local promoter. 

Read below for my recommendation to test the waters.



gazh said:


> A small 1000 arena at $30 a ticket is, ofcourse, going to bring you $30,000 and that is IF you can sell out.
> 
> *Unless you're going to invest heavily is a good card you'd have: Main Event, John Smith (3-3) VS Joe Bloggs (2-2) isn't exactly going to get anybody interested*.


That's the whole trick. Book marquee talent shell out $$$, book local talent then you'd better hope they can pull in their friends and family. Hence why Connor shot up to main event status. He's a relative newcomer and can be deemed as an average fighter. Fact is...he single handedly sold out a 9,000 arena show. Cole Miller or Diego Brandao will never be able to do those numbers...maybe 1% at best. 

Tell you the truth you guys should just host it inside a boxing or MMA gym; built in cage or ring. Pack it in 100 capacity. If you can't do that consistently it's going to be extremely challenging packing in halls yet alone arenas. 

That cost breakdown is only a preliminary one, I have an entire accounting sheet in my old hardrive and it's $300k for the show we produced. For SF shows I'd say $1 million, UFC probably triple and maybe even more cuz they're paying out ppv dollars, major advertisement EVERYWHERE, huge bonuses, marquee championship fights (LHW, GSP, Anderson) are all seven figures or larger venues like in Toronto which would be significantly more to book and rig, study the trussing set up at the top of the octagon + wide screens throughout the arenas, and they have MASSIVE amount of security. You guys should read the interview on Hector Lombard talking about Bellator production vs the UFC. Pride on the other hand imo was even bigger in terms of production value. Maybe a lil too much cuz they went belly up. Who else has pyrotechnics other than WWE. 

I'm sure at this point some UFC shows lose money; Fight Nights but their strategy has changed. They can afford to take losses, but it's part of the bigger plan to get network exposure. More eyeballs on the UFC brand and sport in general means HIGHER PPV $$$ for the main events. Then that in turn catches the eye of Nike, Budlight, Harley Davidson, and whatever other sponsors they have.


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## kantowrestler

Yeah, starting up a promotion on the small scale is all about local promoting. You'd have to find a lot of investors and free agents to start something like Bellator or WSOF off the ground. That takes time and effort so go for the local small scale first.


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## UKMMAGURU

How much do fighters earn? I always thought it would look something like this:

Unsigned elite fighter: £20,000 and upwards ($34,000+)
Rousimar Palhares, Shinya Aoki, Paul Daley etc

Top regional level fighter: £4000-£20,000 ($6800-$34,000)
Matt Riddle, Brandon Vera etc

Regional level fighter: £1000-£4000 ($1700-$6800)
Jacob Volkmann, Andrew Winner etc

Inexperienced or debuting: £500-£1000 ($850-$1700)


..Far off?


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## slapshot

Ive seen fighters in the UFC make 3k or less to show so .. that aint much.

Im guessing it's something like 300 to show and 500 to win main event.

I would like to see a % structure that way if you have a show that does well they get more and if you tank it doesn't tank your business.

Look up existing promotions and see how they structure, that might help.

here in Montana we have an armature org called fightforce and its been around for some time now.
http://www.fightforcefighting.com/


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## kantowrestler

Yeah, but that's an amateur promotion so they won't even pay for their fighters. You have to look at a lower level promotion like King of the Cage or Gladiator Challenge. That's a better comparison.


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## slapshot

kantowrestler said:


> Yeah, but that's an amateur promotion so they won't even pay for their fighters. You have to look at a lower level promotion like King of the Cage or Gladiator Challenge. That's a better comparison.


They hold armature and pro events and their entire structure can be viewed on their site unlike the bigger orgs that wont lay their business model out as freely.


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## kantowrestler

So they could be compared to Legacy Fighting Championships in both levels? I guess that would make sense taking everything into consideration. Well that could be considered a good model.


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## slapshot

kantowrestler said:


> So they could be compared to Legacy Fighting Championships in both levels? I guess that would make sense taking everything into consideration. Well that could be considered a good model.


They are still very small, probably smaller than most but they also have been around Montana forever so its worth a look just to see how they do it.


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## UKMMAGURU

Legacy, KotC, MFC etc are all _big_ orgs, I think Slapshot is referring to a tiny org probably the main event is a 3-0 VS 3-4 type of event.

Look at the *third* post on this Sherdog thread:

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2/how-much-does-cost-put-small-amatuer-mma-event-382808

That is extremely cheap and I would genuinely question if that is do-able but that looks like a great blueprint to dip your toe in the water.


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## No_Mercy

Posted a long reply to Gazgh, but I think my comp froze. Wonderful! Anyways your pay scale is pretty much right although some fighters are free surprisingly. Plus they get commission for selling tickets. Wsof will probably fall to the wayside and Bellator "might" pick up where SF was. Not sure how much Coker can do given how much time has passed. It's going to take too long to scout and build new talent. I dunno if it's better to have a strong rival like Pride or not. 

Keeps the balance, but yet we don't get to see the fights we want to. Took forever to get Wandy and Chuck in + the rest of the HWs.


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## kantowrestler

I'm not sure what Bellator and WSOF has to do with starting a promotion except for how Coker and Rebney did it. Also remember they had investors lined up and everything. It also took time.


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