# Randy Couture plans to force Lyoto Machida to engage



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Interesting :confused02:


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Great find Bobby, thanks. 

I know you and I are more excited about this fight than most people.

It's gonna be me and you buddy :fight02:


it's on.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Lyoto has always given me the impression hes pretty damn impressive in the clinch. I don't know what makes Randy think putting him up against the cage is a weakness somehow?

I just cant see Machida losing this one. No way.


Thanks for posting coops.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Have a look at randys fight against Gonazaga, I dont think there is anyone in the ufc with a better clinch game.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Randy is gonna win this fight and shock a lot of people, Machida's whole style is about striking at a distance and moving in and out without sustaining damage. Couture is gonna push him against the cage stiffle his movement and do what Randy does best a little dirty boxing in the clinch. It won't be pretty but the old timer will get his hand raised one more time at the end. Randy is a master strategist, he wouldn't ask for the fight if he didn't have a plan.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Poor Handy, he has no idea what he's letting himself in for.


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## tap nap or snap (Jan 28, 2009)

where is randy's son fighting? is he a pro-fighter?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Randy's kid fights for SF.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> Poor Handy, he has no idea what he's letting himself in for.


Still not understanding this mentity. Lyoto is not the brutal devastating fighter that certain people keep making him out to be. Randy has faced much more dangerous wrecking machines before. Randy does absolutely have a chance in this fight, it's not like there's a huge risk of him getting massacred from a passive fighter.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Ryan Couture, he was part of the SF Challengers thing they got going on.

Couture will win this. He has one of the best clinch games in MMA and once he has Machida against the fence, I don't think Machida can do anything. 

If Couture wins, I don't think its really that much of an upset, especially to people who have followed MMA for a while.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Still not understanding this mentity. Lyoto is not the brutal devastating fighter that certain people keep making him out to be. Randy has faced much more dangerous wrecking machines before. Randy does absolutely have a chance in this fight, it's not like there's a huge risk of him getting massacred from a passive fighter.


He's a 48 year old man for crying out loud, he's way past his prime, his last two fights have been freak shows with his other third one being a gifted decision win over Vera.

Lyoto isn't going to be passive here, thats the difference. Randy is going to get mauled within the first two rounds. Lyoto has nothing to fear here.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

I see this fight going similar to Randy/Nog, just a lot more decisive. I think Lyoto will see that he can't avoid the clinch, so he will try to take Randy down and work him like Nog did. I don't see any standing exchanges in this fight at all to be honest.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I think your neglecting that Vera was an accomplished wrestler who did train at the US olympic level even if he never competed. Vera also has a nasty MuaThai clinch. Machida has neither. Couture will bully him in the clinch and not allow him to use distance to minimize damage. Randy will hold Machida on the cage and make it an ugly, ugly fight.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

If Randy can get him against the cage I think he has a very good chance on winning this the way he wants. In the past though Lyoto has shown some nice judo throws and some TDD. The problem is we never see him traditional fights to know if he is much better than he gets credit for. I think Randy will push Lyoto in ways he has never been pushed in a fight before and will be a real test. 

Oh and WAR RANDY!


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## hardbodyheath (Jan 26, 2011)

That is a really pretty outfit Randy has on


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Lyoto is going to come out like he did in the third round against Page. I cant believe so many people think a 48 year old, way past it fighter is actually going to beat Machida.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Styles make fight McKeever and stylistically this is a bad fight for Machida.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Styles make fight McKeever and stylistically this is a bad fight for Machida.



I feel some BIG bets are in order Toxic! Ill bet u all my Credits Machida takes this! Barely a mil Credits is nothing to a pot pool or your stature! 

Gimme my MONEY!


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

fine a million credits MK I may even kick you a couple thousand after I take yours.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Still not understanding this mentity. Lyoto is not the brutal devastating fighter that certain people keep making him out to be. Randy has faced much more dangerous wrecking machines before. Randy does absolutely have a chance in this fight, it's not like there's a huge risk of him getting massacred from a passive fighter.


When was the last time you saw somebody rocking Rampage that badly in a fight twice? 



Toxic said:


> I think your neglecting that Vera was an accomplished wrestler who did train at the US olympic level even if he never competed. Vera also has a nasty MuaThai clinch. Machida has neither. Couture will bully him in the clinch and not allow him to use distance to minimize damage. Randy will hold Machida on the cage and make it an ugly, ugly fight.


You heavily underrate Lyoto's clinch game here. He probably has one if not THE best clinch in the LHW devision. 



Toxic said:


> fine a million credits MK I may even kick you a couple thousand after I take yours.


If you are that confident, I take another million bet with you, deal?


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## tap nap or snap (Jan 28, 2009)

i think machida's sumo and udo throws will put an end to randy's game plan, however i do think randy has better dirty boxing and will score some strikes there. in the end I'd put my money on lyoto, probably by ko/tko


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Toxic said:


> fine a million credits MK I may even kick you a couple thousand after I take yours.


And maybe kick in a little extra after i win with the sexy credit pot u have lol.

Especially when u see how badly Machida wins :thumb02:

My only regret is not having more Credits to bet :thumb04:


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

Machida won't be as cautious because he knows it cost him an easily winnable fight against Jackson and he know Randy doesn't pack a lot of power. I expect him to be more active than last fight and he has a very good clinch game I don't think Randy will just effortlessly hold him against the cage.

I expect Machida to win easily but I thought he'd beat Rampage easily and he shit the bed in that one.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Randy is too old
He's too slow
He's too predictable
He's a one trick pony

Machida is too fast
He's too elusive
He has too many tools
He's a sumo wrestler





Machida is about to be reminded that a KO doesn't hurt nearly as much as a beatdown


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> When was the last time you saw somebody rocking Rampage that badly in a fight twice?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll take your million two if you insist. 
I don't underrate Lyoto's clinch game, its solid but Randy's is epic, the guy is a legend and a lot of it has to due with that clinch game. Randy was an olympic caliber GrecoRoman wrestler, he was an alternate for the olympic team for the US. Dude is has some of the best clinch control in the sports history.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Machida Karate said:


> And maybe kick in a little extra after i win with the sexy credit pot u have lol.
> 
> Especially when u see how badly Machida wins :thumb02:
> 
> *My only regret is not having more Credits to bet* :thumb04:



Me too!!:thumb02:


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Toxic said:


> I'll take your million two if you insist.
> I don't underrate Lyoto's clinch game, its solid but Randy's is epic, the guy is a legend and a lot of it has to due with that clinch game. Randy was an olympic caliber GrecoRoman wrestler, he was an alternate for the olympic team for the US. Dude is has some of the best clinch control in the sports history.


Is that enough? I only ever heard one thing Randy can do to Machida and Machida also has a good Clinch game, and i know its good enough to escape, and if Randy does clinch with Machida he will take shots for it, and i see Machida only really needing to worry about one thing with Randy and its not good to be predictable against Machida.

Randy will take to many shots, and suffer to much to get the Clinch, and i see Machida getting out of the Clinch fast and Randys confidence going out the window...

I love Randy but if Big Nog can make Randy look a little slow, Machida is going to be doing laps around him...


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

oldfan said:


> Randy is too old
> He's too slow *Same thing was said 4 years ago*
> He's too predictable *predicting it doesn't matter unless you can stop it*
> He's a one trick pony *What? An Olympic caliber wrestler and BJJ blackbelt is a one trick pony?*
> ...


Tim Sylvia
was to big
was to strong
played it to safe.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

No way is Randy going to do anything to Lyoto in the clinch. Honestly, I cant see any area where Randy is stronger. He may well be a legend, but hes 45... or whatever.

Nog is not a fast man, but he looked lightning fast compared to Randy.

Whatever. I hope its a great fight with a few surprises. Pretty much my hope in every fight!


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Drogo said:


> Machida won't be as cautious because he knows it cost him an easily winnable fight against Jackson and he know Randy doesn't pack a lot of power. I expect him to be more active than last fight and he has a very good clinch game I don't think Randy will just effortlessly hold him against the cage.
> 
> I expect Machida to win easily but I thought he'd beat Rampage easily and he shit the bed in that one.


You can not use the Rampage fight as an indicate. You heavily have to consider that happened to Lyoto in the Shogun fight. It's a huge mind f.uck!

Against Randy there is no fear!



oldfan said:


> Randy is too old
> He's too slow
> He's too predictable
> He's a one trick pony
> ...


Sumo baby 












Toxic said:


> I'll take your million two if you insist.
> I don't underrate Lyoto's clinch game, its solid but Randy's is epic, the guy is a legend and a lot of it has to due with that clinch game. Randy was an olympic caliber GrecoRoman wrestler, he was an alternate for the olympic team for the US. Dude is has some of the best clinch control in the sports history.


Excellent :thumbsup:

Randy almost turns 50 years of age Toxic. Also you really believe that Randy could just hold LYoto against the cage for 5 minutes and continue to do so for 5 and another 5?

If Lyoto breaks up the clinch he will unleash some furious fast hands wich will be downfall for Randy. There is no aspect where fear comes into play. Rampage could have ended the fight with only one shot. Randy doesn't posses anything wich should LYoto force to not unleash his hands and kicks.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Machida Karate said:


> Is that enough? I only ever heard one thing Randy can do to Machida and Machida also has a good Clinch game, and i know its good enough to escape, and if Randy does clinch with Machida he will take shots for it, and i see Machida only really needing to worry about one thing with Randy and its not good to be predictable against Machida.
> 
> Randy will take to many shots, and suffer to much to get the Clinch, and i see Machida getting out of the Clinch fast and Randys confidence going out the window...
> 
> I love Randy but if Big Nog can make Randy look a little slow, Machida is going to be doing laps around him...


Randy is a great wrestler and a BJJ black belt, don't kid yourself he has been doing BJJ a long time and is a serious threat to Machida on the ground especially considering that its likely gonna be Randy on top.

Name one fight Randy lost his confidence and broke mentally? Pedro Rizzo cut the guys leg right out so bad he still has scars and Randy never lost his confidence. This is Randy Couture not freaking Vitor Belfort.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Randy is a great wrestler and a BJJ black belt, don't kid yourself he has been doing BJJ a long time and is a serious threat to Machida on the ground especially considering that its likely gonna be Randy on top.
> 
> Name one fight Randy lost his confidence and broke mentally? Pedro Rizzo cut the guys leg right out so bad he still has scars and Randy never lost his confidence. This is Randy Couture not freaking Vitor Belfort.




Im not saying he will quit like Vitor im just saying his confidence in his gameplan on holding Machida in the Clinch will drop, i know Randy will fight his heart out till the end im not questioning that, but he is no threat to Machida on the ground im sorry lol... 

Machida has a way better overall ground game when it comes to MMA.

Im going Machida TKO 3rd, because Randy is a beast, and i think he might be able to hold on, its probably going to be a TKO 2nd though lol


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

My opinion on this fight, is exactly the same as Toxics...and Machida Karate's/Bobby Coopers.

I have NO idea who will do what in this fight. Either scenario could happen in my mind. It's completely a flip of the coin for me. Either Randy will go in there, rough Machida up and grind out a decision or Machida will make Randy look slow and old and TKO him.

This is anyone's fight for me, and I won't be betting on it.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

KryOnicle said:


> My opinion on this fight, is exactly the same as Toxics...and Machida Karate's/Bobby Coopers.
> 
> I have NO idea who will do what in this fight. Either scenario could happen in my mind. It's completely a flip of the coin for me. Either Randy will go in there, rough Machida up and grind out a decision or Machida will make Randy look slow and old and TKO him.
> 
> This is anyone's fight for me, and I won't be betting on it.


But you have to admit this is Machidas fight to win, and only way i can see Machida losing is if he comes in sluggish and timid and fights Randys game and not his.

But with no KO power from Randy, and being as slow of a striker as he is, and watching Vids on how Hungry Machida looks for this fight, and a W, i see a Hungry, pumped up Machida that doesn't have to fear that 1 shot KO

All Randy has is the Clinch, i dont see any ground game period this whole fight. He will try to cut Machida off and just take to much damage


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> You can not use the Rampage fight as an indicate. You heavily have to consider that happened to Lyoto in the Shogun fight. It's a huge mind ****!
> 
> Against Randy there is no fear!


I cannot even put in to words what an incredibly stupid mistake it would be for Machida not to fear Randy












> Sumo baby
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I know Sumo has had so many great champions in MMA like Teila Tuli,Akebono and Emmanuel Yarborough. To bad no great Greco Roman wrestlers reached these heights.


> Randy almost turns 50 years of age Toxic. Also you really believe that Randy could just hold LYoto against the cage for 5 minutes and continue to do so for 5 and another 5?


 Absolutly, Randy is a technique fighter who does not rely on speed or explosiveness. There is a reason he has managed to continue to compete while his contemporaries have fell off the map.


> If Lyoto breaks up the clinch he will unleash some furious fast hands wich will be downfall for Randy. There is no aspect where fear comes into play. Rampage could have ended the fight with only one shot. Randy doesn't posses anything wich should LYoto force to not unleash his hands and kicks.


First of IF he breaks up the clinch is a big IF. secondly furious fast hands, geez I am sure Randy has never seen those before *cough Vitor cough*, Lyoto has also not shown this wrecking machine power you seem to think he has. Lyoto has 3 knock outs and a resume that is still mostly made up of decisions.
These big wins of Machida were guys who stayed back and let Machida move, they let him dance around avoiding there punches while eating theres. Machida likes to move in and out avoiding getting hit but Randy knows this and better than most understands it, he will keep the pressure on him for the whole 15 minutes holding Machida against the cage while mixing in the occasional take down to score points and throw Machida off. Machida won't unleash his hands and feet because Randy is gonna smother him and not give him the room. Don't ever bet against a tactician who has the tools to impose his game plan. 

I would give Machida a better chance against Rampage again (I thought he won the first fight) or against Shogun in a 3rd fight then I would here. Randy is a bad match up for the karate man.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Tim Sylvia
> was to big
> was to strong
> played it to safe.





BobbyCooper said:


> Against Randy there is no fear!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



uhm...yeah... y'all did read the last line of my post right?

I was just mucking the ex spurts. those things have been said so many times.... well they must be true..:confused05:


Doesn't matter, Randy wins


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

oops now I feel dumb, OldFan


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## Glothin (Jun 8, 2010)

Machida is going to bring it and win by KO/TKO before the fight is half over. He has the striking, strength, TDD to expose Randy as the 47.916 year old human he is.

Randy is 19-10 with only 1 loss by decision. This fight will not go the distance.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

What I've seen from Lyoto is that he has excellent TD defense, too lazy to look up the stats, but the man doesn't get taken down, in fact, he takes people down.

Randy Couture vs Brandon Vera, Randy won the fight in most unimpressive fashion, he took Vera down like twice? and did nothing with the position. Meanwhile Vera was able to hurt Couture in the standup.

If Randy's going to win, it's going to be by decision cage grinding, but I don't think Machida will let him go the whole fight without knocking him out, or hurting him sufficiently.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

If a 48 year old man beats lyoto machida I will stop watching MMA all together.

lol at this being a bad stylistic fight for Machida. How can it be a bad stylistic fight when Machida is stronger in every single area?


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

Glothin said:


> Machida is going to bring it and win by KO/TKO before the fight is half over. He has the striking, strength, TDD to expose Randy as the 47.916 year old human he is.
> 
> Randy is 19-10 with only 1 loss by decision. This fight will not go the distance.


Ya if Machida plays the play it safe game life Rampage or wins 2 rounds (even if they are obvious round-wins to people watching the fight), good chance he'd lose - Machida has to finish. If the Vera fight was any indication of judging on V.S. old man Couture, it's either finish, really bhurt him for 3 rounds, or lose.

If he fights like he did against Rampage and like waits till like that last moment to unload a flurry - he'll definitely lose.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> If a 48 year old man beats lyoto machida I will stop watching MMA all together.
> 
> lol at this being a bad stylistic fight for Machida. How can it be a bad stylistic fight when Machida is stronger in every single area?


What area is Machida stronger in? We have not seen much of Machida's ground game but he did damn near get submitted by Tito so actually from what we have seen Randy has shown the better ground game, Randy has the better clinch game, Randy is the better wrestler. Standing striking at range is the only definitive advantage Machida has. I am gonna miss you around here McKeever


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Toxic said:


> What area is Machida stronger in? We have not seen much of Machida's ground game but he did damn near get submitted by Tito so actually from what we have seen Randy has shown the better ground game, Randy has the better clinch game, Randy is the better wrestler. Standing striking at range is the only definitive advantage Machida has. I am gonna miss you around here McKeever


So after dominating Tito on and off the ground for almost 3 full rounds and then almost getting triangled that makes his ground game bad? Machida dominated Rampage on the ground and he dominated Tito. Randy got absolutely dominated on the ground (and in the stand up) by zombie nog.....

Have you ever stopped and said to yourself, hold on a minute, Randy Couture is actually 48 years old now and going up against a man who is still one of the best LHW's in the world.

I find you picking Randy over Machida almost as bad as picking Brock over Cain.

This is a horrible mis match and Machida is stronger in the clinch btw.


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## tkoshea (Nov 14, 2010)

This is a much bigger fight for Machida than it is for Couture.

Machida is coming into the fight off the back of back to back losses and is now at least 3 fights away from a title shot, he really can't afford a third consecutive loss if he harbors ambitions of being at the top of the division again.

Randy has the luxury of already having cemented his legacy and from here on in so long as he gives a good account of himself people will continue to marvel at how a man of his age can still perform at the highest level.

It will be interesting to see how Machida handles the pressure, so far we have no evidence to show how he deals with real adversity (his first loss was followed by a lack luster performace and immediate second loss)

Randy will no doubt have his game plan in mind and he will go out of his way to take Machida out of his comfort zone for as long as possible, deny him his abilty to slip in and out of range and use his elusive style, generally rough him up and take him down as and when possible.

Randy can win this fight!

Whether he will or not depends largely on how much Machida is willing to bring the fight to him, Machida has the speed and striking to cause Randy all kinds of problems and I could see him giving him similar treatment to that he dished out on Rashad.

I do have my doubts about Machida's mental strength and it will be interesting to see how he approaches this fight after they touch gloves. I am looking forward to this one...its a big enough fight to be a headliner and means UFC 129 is all set up to be an amazing event.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> So after dominating Tito on and off the ground for almost 3 full rounds and then almost getting triangled that makes his ground game bad? Machida dominated Rampage on the ground and he dominated Tito. Randy got absolutely dominated on the ground (and in the stand up) by zombie nog.....
> 
> Have you ever stopped and said to yourself, hold on a minute, Randy Couture is actually 48 years old now and going up against a man who is still one of the best LHW's in the world.
> 
> ...


Well said Mc :thumbsup:

It's hilarious when people say that Randy is a bad matchup for Lyoto  I mean come on now are you serious?

It's the other way around of course and everybody knows that!

I can tell you who has got the advanatges in this fight..

Lyoto everywhere! Striking he is miles ahead it's not even funny his BJJ is ahead his Takedowns are ahead his age, his speed, his technic overall, his new power wich he demonstrated in the Rampage bout, his quickness and unpredictable movements and attacks.

Now Randy is most likely even in the clinch game if not behind! 

Thats the truth guys lol

or why do you think Randy is a 4:1 underdog here?

It's crazy how people underrate Lyoto's game these days, just because he got stopped by arguably the greatest LHW ever in a fight was totally even until the lucky punch and because he *won* a close decision against Rampage^^ a guy who hits like a truck.

You know 2 KO losses in a row could have ended his entire MMA career right there in this night. Thats why he fought the way he fought.

I hated the Rampage fight right from the beginning it was annouced and was bagging for guy who doesn't hit that hard like Forrest for example.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> So after dominating Tito on and off the ground for almost 3 full rounds and then almost getting triangled that makes his ground game bad? Machida dominated Rampage on the ground and he dominated Tito. Randy got absolutely dominated on the ground (and in the stand up) by zombie nog.....
> 
> Have you ever stopped and said to yourself, hold on a minute, Randy Couture is actually 48 years old now and going up against a man who is still one of the best LHW's in the world.
> 
> ...


I have not said Machida is bad on the ground we just really haven't seen anything to give us to much of an indication either way, we have seen enough to say its not abysmal but he still has alot to show us as far as the ground game goes.

Have you ever stopped and said shit Machida is a guy whose biggest asset is his mobility and ability to avoid damage and he is fighting one of the best figters to ever step into the cage at stiffling that movement. 

Ever consider Machida is a fighter coming off back to back losses fighting one of the best fighters of all time? I quit using Randy's age as a way to rationalize his losing back in 2007 when he layed a beating on Tim Sylvia.

Machida is not going to bully Randy in the clinch to even imply that is comical, Randy is the measuring stick in the clinch and not only that but Machida is probably physically the smallest guy Randy has ever fought. Randy will have the superior technique and the size and strength advantage in the clinch.

You can say all day that Randy is slow and Machida is so much faster but that is fine. Randy has never been a fast guy, he never relied on explosiveness or big Knock out power either. None of these things have changed that much. Randy has went though his career using superior technique to beat bigger guys and somehow you think a guy who is physically smaller is gonna overwhelm Randy in his strongest area. Its comical.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Toxic said:


> I have not said Machida is bad on the ground we just really haven't seen anything to give us to much of an indication either way, we have seen enough to say its not abysmal but he still has alot to show us as far as the ground game goes.
> 
> Have you ever stopped and said shit Machida is a guy whose biggest asset is his mobility and ability to avoid damage and he is fighting one of the best figters to ever step into the cage at stiffling that movement.
> 
> ...


Do you even know who Tim Silvya is Toxic? Probably the by far worst Champion there ever was in any combat sport there ever was.

Again Lyoto's clinch technique is among the top three in if not the best in the devision. Also he is strong has hell there. Rampage, probably the strongest LHW couldn't hold LYoto there for longer then a couple of seconds.

Why do you think Lyoto wanted this fight so badly?? Because he thing's that Randy could pin him up against the cage for 15 minutes? thats just delusional Toxic. Randy couldn't even do that against Vera or Nog who has no Wrestling background at all.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Tim Sylvia was a great fighter when he took it serious, don't let the fact he doesn't even look like he trains anymore taint what he accomplished he damn near beat Nog, he beat a lot of solid fighters before Fedor stole his soul and desire to be a fighter.

Nog is bigger and has been grappling his entire life, Nog is a grappler and that is his strong suite, Nogs ground work was more impressive than his clinch work though IMO., Vera has trained at the olympic training center and was a quite accomplished wrestler in his own right with an extensive Mua Thai back ground to go along with it.

Rampage may be strong but strength and technique are not the same thing. Randy was not stronger in the clinch than all those HW's like Gonzaga and Sylvia, he had better technique. Machida may have used superior technique against Rampage but he won't have any advantage in the clinch come fight night against Couture.

Also it wasn't Machida that wanted the fight it was Randy who basically said he would like to fight Shogun or Machida and that other than that he really had no interest in fighting. Think Randy wants to go out on a loss? No the last fight Randy asked for was Tim Sylvia, why because he knew he could beat him.


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## lpbigd4444 (Oct 1, 2008)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Still not understanding this mentity. Lyoto is not the brutal devastating fighter that certain people keep making him out to be. Randy has faced much more dangerous wrecking machines before. Randy does absolutely have a chance in this fight, it's not like there's a huge risk of him getting massacred from a passive fighter.


Tell that to Rashad and Thiago... I love Randy but his reflexes have slowed and he got rocked by both head shots and body shots from Brandon Vera. I think Lyoto can drop him with that knee to the sternum hes always throwing.. I'll be absolutely stunned if Randy wins this


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> *If a 48 year old man beats lyoto machida I will stop watching MMA all together.*


:laugh:


We'll miss you around here Mck.

What sport are you taking up?


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Tim Sylvia was a great fighter when he took it serious, don't let the fact he doesn't even look like he trains anymore taint what he accomplished he damn near beat Nog, he beat a lot of solid fighters before Fedor stole his soul and desire to be a fighter.
> 
> Nog is bigger and has been grappling his entire life, Nog is a grappler and that is his strong suite, Nogs ground work was more impressive than his clinch work though IMO., Vera has trained at the olympic training center and was a quite accomplished wrestler in his own right with an extensive Mua Thai back ground to go along with it.
> 
> ...


No no, Randy said Machida was the one who actually pushed for this fight to make it happen  there is an Interview out there where he says so. I will take a look.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> No no, Randy said Machida was the one who actually pushed for this fight to make it happen  there is an Interview out there where he says so. I will take a look.


Maybe recently, but Randy had been asking for this fight for a while, even while Randy was at HW.

As for age, everytime Randy goes to fight everyone yells how old he is. For Randy age shows, but inside the cage it seems to not matter for the most part. A lot of quotes being said about Lyoto were said when he was fighting Gonzaga.

I learned a long time ago, dont count Randy out, and I'm not. As someone else mentioned, there is 0 pressure on Randy and 200% on Lyoto. We will see if he can handle the pressure.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

cdtcpl said:


> Maybe recently, but Randy had been asking for this fight for a while, even while Randy was at HW.
> 
> As for age, everytime Randy goes to fight everyone yells how old he is. For Randy age shows, but inside the cage it seems to not matter for the most part. A lot of quotes being said about Lyoto were said when he was fighting Gonzaga.
> 
> I learned a long time ago, dont count Randy out, and I'm not. As someone else mentioned, there is 0 pressure on Randy and 200% on Lyoto. We will see if he can handle the pressure.


I know, both wanted to fight each other pretty badly. It's not only Randy like many of you guys are saying, both pushed to make it happen.

Well, when you face a 31 year old who just reached his Prime and you are almost 50 way out of your prime, plus the skill level diffrence.. age plays a huge factor.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

oldfan said:


> :laugh:
> 
> 
> We'll miss you around here Mck.
> ...


I'm deadly serious. If a man fighting at that age can beat some one like Machida, then the sport isnt worth watching any more.

I stopped replying to toxic when he said "Couture almost beat Nog....". Take the blinders off and then maybe make an argument.

Couture is not going to wall n stall some one like Machida for 15 minutes, it isn't happening. The two fighters are currently worlds apart. lyoto Machida is not brandon ******* vera.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> Couture is not going to wall n stall some one like Machida for 15 minutes, it isn't happening. The two fighters are currently worlds apart. lyoto Machida is not brandon ******* vera.


On the other hand, Rampage did manage to clinch Machida on the cage for a decent portion of the first 2 rounds and Rampage isn't exactly the fastest fighter around nor is he known for his clinch work. Rampage does have a better chin than Randy so he can eat a few shots coming in and not have to worry about it.

Overall I don't think it's going to be a blowout, it's going to come down to who comes in with a better strategy for the fight and who does a better job of putting the gameplan into effect. To me this is a very interesting fight, I think it's going to be more about brains than physical abilities.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

Some of the ways being tossed around about how Randy can win this fight remind me of some of the comments made about how James Toney could beat Randy - delusional. Though the disparity between Lyoto and Randy is in no way as great as between Randy and Toney, it is enough and will make a difference. There is no way that Randy is going to impose his will on Lyoto to the degree that has been often suggested. He will not pin him up against the cage as easily as thought (if at all). Randy is going to have to navigate through punches, kicks and good TTD of a very elusive opponent to get at Lyoto - an opponent who could quite possible put Randy on his back. In the process, Randy is going to get hurt. Randy has been in decline for awhile, and unfortunately, his last two very weak opponents did not expose it and now his performances against Nog and Vera seem to be totally forgotten. Someone made the astute observation that he was out struck by the plodding Nog. Not a good sign.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Randy of 5 years ago id pick , now id say Lyoto by TKO.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

I think if Randy can get a hold of machida he can take this. Rampage beat machida by putting him adonai the cage. Loyoto's main strength is counter punching. Randy is one of the best in the clinch I mean we all saw what he did to GG and was going good in the clinch during the fight with Brock. Also go back to his fight with vitor and he manhandled him. 

If randy can get a hold of him then Randy wins if they fall into a striking battle machida wins by tko.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> I'm deadly serious. If a man fighting at that age can beat some one like Machida, then the sport isnt worth watching any more.
> 
> I stopped replying to toxic when he said "Couture almost beat Nog....". Take the blinders off and then maybe make an argument.
> 
> Couture is not going to wall n stall some one like Machida for 15 minutes, it isn't happening. The two fighters are currently worlds apart. lyoto Machida is not brandon ******* vera.


I said Tim Sylvia damn near beat Nog not Randy. Perhaps the blinders went on a little early?


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## EliteUndisputed (Nov 26, 2010)

If Rampage had the success he had with Machida in the clinch, then thinking Randy Couture of all people doesn't stand a chance against Machida is absurd, a lot of people say Shogun figuered out how to beat him but I believe Rampage laid the blue print to beat him and Couture can follow that blue print better than anyone.

Couture takes the split decision and sends Lyoto out of the top ten.


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## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

> Some of the ways being tossed around about how Randy can win this fight remind me of some of the comments made about how James Toney could beat Randy - delusional. Though the disparity between Lyoto and Randy is in no way as great as between Randy and Toney, it is enough and will make a difference. There is no way that Randy is going to impose his will on Lyoto to the degree that has been often suggested. He will not pin him up against the cage as easily as thought (if at all). Randy is going to have to navigate through punches, kicks and good TTD of a very elusive opponent to get at Lyoto - an opponent who could quite possible put Randy on his back. In the process, Randy is going to get hurt. Randy has been in decline for awhile, and unfortunately, his last two very weak opponents did not expose it and now his performances against Nog and Vera seem to be totally forgotten. Someone made the astute observation that he was out struck by the plodding Nog. Not a good sign.


Kinda see it like this. ^^^^


I'm not sure that using Sylvia and Gonzaga as examples, with regard to him beating Machida, are really viable. Yes they were stronger, and yes they had dangerous stand up, making his performances totally outstanding, but Randy was able to dictate where those fights went because both were pretty undynamic, and slow. Sylvia was always quite plodding, and Gonzaga slowed badly with the broken nose. Randy did very well to get inside and smother them up against the cage, but they were never the type to have the wheels to move away from this situation, once Randy moved to close the distance. 

I believe that Lyoto will make Randy look like he is moving in slow motion, and could pick him apart at will. This could be like Liddell 2 and 3, imo. Machida doesn't have the knock out power that Liddell did, but I don't think Randy's chin will be up to the task of getting lit up at all and surviving.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

This is Randy we're talking about. I don't care if he's fighting when he's 60 years old. I still wouldn't count him out. 

He's not a stupid guy. He wouldn't be taking this fight if he didn't think he could win and if he wasn't in amazing shape. The whole "he's an old guy" thing doesn't apply to Randy. He never looks any worse for wear when he comes out.

That being said, this one is gonna come down to the clinch game. Whoevers the biggest bully wins.


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## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Randy is gonna win this fight and shock a lot of people, Machida's whole style is about striking at a distance and moving in and out without sustaining damage. Couture is gonna push him against the cage stiffle his movement and do what Randy does best a little dirty boxing in the clinch. It won't be pretty but the old timer will get his hand raised one more time at the end. Randy is a master strategist, he wouldn't ask for the fight if he didn't have a plan.


^this^

However I AM worried about Randy. He got caught few times by Nog pretty badly, and while Nog has decent boxing it is far from Machida's level. Also, Randy struggled with takedowns against Vera and I dare to say that despite Vera's decent wrestling, Machida has displayed stronger takedown defense.
IF it goes well, we'll indeed see Randy beating Machida up at the fence for 3 round or until he decides to take the fight to ground and TKO him, but Machida avoiding takedowns, breaking free from Clinch and dropping Randy has pretty big chance to happen too. Randy has however done exactly that against much bigger and stronger opponents than Machida, and he was infact outwrestling Lesnar too before he got caught by that punch.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Diokhan said:


> ^this^
> 
> However I AM worried about Randy. He got caught few times by Nog pretty badly, and while Nog has decent boxing it is far from Machida's level. Also, Randy struggled with takedowns against Vera and I dare to say that despite Vera's decent wrestling, Machida has displayed stronger takedown defense.
> IF it goes well, we'll indeed see Randy beating Machida up at the fence for 3 round or until he decides to take the fight to ground and TKO him, but Machida avoiding takedowns, breaking free from Clinch and dropping Randy has pretty big chance to happen too. Randy has however done exactly that against much bigger and stronger opponents than Machida, and he was infact outwrestling Lesnar too before he got caught by that punch.


Machida has not fought a wrestler of Randy's caliber and he has shown great TD defense but we are talking apples and oranges. Tito and Rashad are a completely different style of wrestlers than Randy is. Randy is not you classic shoot for a double or single kind of wrestler.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Randy's chin is gone one glancing blow and he is done , Machida beat Rampage IMO , and although he didn't look amazing he played conservatively because he feared being KO'ed i dont think he needs to with Couture , literally i dont see Randy being able to hold him the entire round , when he gets close Machida will batter him.



Toxic said:


> Machida has not fought a wrestler of Randy's caliber and he has shown great TD defense but we are talking apples and oranges. Tito and Rashad are a completely different style of wrestlers than Randy is. Randy is not you classic shoot for a double or single kind of wrestler.


Shoot wrestlers are far more effective in MMA , Randy needs to use his clinch and i just cant see him getting close without being hit.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Randy has won most of his fights via his style of wrestling, Grecko Roman. I think most wrestling experts would say grecko roman is the best wrestling for MMA. Vera when he was an up an coming was feared for his grecko capabilities. Thats why he was hard to dominate when randy fought him. Machida doesnt have the hours put in to be able to deal with randys clinch. Its all about if Randy can make that clinch. If he can he wins if he cant he loses. I say he can!


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## LTrain5563 (Feb 16, 2011)

I don't know maybe I'm crazy, but back when Machida was Champ, I thought Randy would be a bad matchup for him. 

Guess what, I still do.



***** de Amigo said:


> Randy's chin is gone one glancing blow and he is done , Machida beat Rampage IMO , and although he didn't look amazing he played conservatively because he feared being KO'ed i dont think he needs to with Couture , literally i dont see Randy being able to hold him the entire round , when he gets close Machida will batter him.



I agree. I think Machida beat Page. I also think that part of the reason he played it safe is because he knew Page could KO him at any moment. Another reason I think he played it safe was because he just made a costly mistake against Shogun the fight before that and didn't want to take any chance of making another mistake that could cost him another fight. A sudden loss like that, especially if it's your first lose will mess with you. The last reason I think he played it safe was because it was a big fight. the pressure was on him. He knew that if he won he would be back in title contention.

The pressure will be on him again in this fight. Instead of not opening up because he fears being Ko'ed, like in the Page fight. He might not open up because he fears being taken down by Couture. Not that being taken down could end the fight. But being taken down could cost him vauable points and after his last DEC. lost, I imagine that might be a factor.

The only time we've seen Machida on his back, however, he was KO'ed vicisiously. I'm not saying Couture's power is anything like Shogun's, but if he's able to get him down early and batter him, it will change the whole fight. If Machida batters Couture while he's trying to get close it will change the whole fight. It's hard to say what will happen until it happens. I guess I can see it going either way. 

Deep down though I think that Couture will be able to get him on his back. It matters how well Machida can get it stood back up that's going to make the difference. I just feel that Couture's control on the ground is too good. 

It's one of those fights that will be pretty obvious after the 1st round


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## tkoshea (Nov 14, 2010)

Obviously Machida is a heavy favourite to win this fight and rightfully so.

He has many tools in his locker to take Randy out or at least win enough rounds to take the W.

Randy is a warrior though and he will go in there with a gameplan and try to execute it, maintaining it for 3 5min rounds is the difficult part because Machida has the power and sharpness of punch/strike to turn end the fight at any time. (see the Lesnar fight on how Randy could be doing great but it only takes a blink of an eye for the good work to be undone.)

I don't think its fair to write Randy off completely as if he has no chance, he has been too good for too long and is still of a high enough standard that I feel he deserves a little more respect than to be dismissed by fans as having no hope in this fight.

I hope he shocks the mma world, he is an amazing guy and an inspiration to us all to still be competing at the top level at his age....but I concede his chances are slim.

What I really can't understand is why any mma fan would see the result as a bad thing, even if your a huge Machida fan...surely you would have to respect Couture and marvel at his success if he could pull of the victory against someone as good as Machida? 

If Randy wins I don't think it detracts from the credibility of the UFC or MMA, I think it merely serves to further highlight what an amazing fighter Couture has been for the sport and what an inspirational guy he really is (not to mention a great role model and charismatic individual)

Good luck to him, I hope at the very least he is not KO'd and produces an impressive performance in victory or defeat.


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## Glothin (Jun 8, 2010)

Glothin said:


> Machida is going to bring it and win by KO/TKO before the fight is half over. He has the striking, strength, TDD to expose Randy as the 47.916 year old human he is.
> 
> Randy is 19-10 with only 1 loss by decision. This fight will not go the distance.


To clarify:

I'm not the Randy hater (I am assuming there is at least one and no more than one out there). My opinion would be a lot different if the Rampage-Machida fight did not happen or play out the way it did. I think Machida has really seen the light and will take the fight to Randy. 

Machida may not morph himself overnight like Chris "Fight of the Night" Lytle, but I do think Machida is changing his tactics to please the UFC, the crowd, Dana and maybe even Chael Sonnen. :thumb02:


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

***** de Amigo said:


> Shoot wrestlers are far more effective in MMA , Randy needs to use his clinch and i just cant see him getting close without being hit.


As a general rule yes they are but I would argue against Machida that is not the case. Machida likes distance its his freind it allows him to dart in and out, in order to shoot you need to give him that room to move. The advantage of a a greco roman guy here is he needs to cut off the cage and can grind on him against the cage restricting his movement and only take the TD to score points.


And Shoot wrestlers are something completely different, the rough style of realistic pro wrestling that led to early mma like Pancrease in Japan is shoot wrestling. Sakuraba was a shoot wrestler before getting into mma.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Obviously i want Machida to take this, but i´m pretty sure Randy as at least a 50-50 chance of taking this. 
Bad matchup for Machida imo, hope i´m wrong thought...


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## lpbigd4444 (Oct 1, 2008)

AmdM said:


> Obviously i want Machida to take this, but i´m pretty sure Randy as at least a 50-50 chance of taking this.
> Bad matchup for Machida imo, hope i´m wrong thought...


Don't worry I think you are wrong and Machida will win this fight without ever being in danger. I really believe age has finally caught up with Randy and it has been disguised till now with fights against Coleman and Toney. He baaarely beat Vera and was rocked by both body and head shots on seperate occassions and was rocked multiple times by Nog who is a slow plodding striker not known for KO power.. I just think his reflexes have slowed a bit and his ability to take shots has minimized. I love Randy as much as the next guy but I just dont see any way he can win this fight. I think his chances of a freak KO are even better than his chances at outpointing Machida at this point because I believe Machida is that much better than him at this point... If Randy wins I would be as shocked as the fans were when Buster Douglas beat Mike Tyson..


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Glothin said:


> Machida may not morph himself overnight like Chris "Fight of the Night" Lytle, but I do think Machida is changing his tactics to please the UFC, the crowd, Dana and maybe even Chael Sonnen. :thumb02:


The problem is that Machida has been training in and perfecting his current style & tactics for pretty much his entire life. It takes a lot of work & time to undo that training and rework it into something new.

Just to use an example, Machida's usual stance has him with his body leaned back and not much weight on his front leg. This leaves him vulnerable to leg kicks since if he lifts his leg to check the kick he'll get spun out of position or off balance, which is why he didn't check a single kick in the first Shogun fight. In the 2nd Shogun fight he adjusted his stance to move his weight forward a bit so that he could check leg kicks, the problem then is that he doesn't have as much of a backward lean in his body anymore which makes it easier to punch him in the face. Which is what Shogun did to him.

Point is when a fighter adjusts his style & tactics it takes time and a lot of training, sparring and maybe even an actual fight or two to work out the kinks. There's usually no free lunch, fixing one vulnerability often opens up something else.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Toxic said:


> As a general rule yes they are but I would argue against Machida that is not the case. Machida likes distance its his freind it allows him to dart in and out, in order to shoot you need to give him that room to move. The advantage of a a greco roman guy here is he needs to cut off the cage and can grind on him against the cage restricting his movement and only take the TD to score points.
> 
> 
> And Shoot wrestlers are something completely different, the rough style of realistic pro wrestling that led to early mma like Pancrease in Japan is shoot wrestling. Sakuraba was a shoot wrestler before getting into mma.


When i meant shoot wrestlers i mean freestyle guys like GSP who use a shoot in as a means to take down guys rather than smothering in the clinch and working for underhooks. #

Cutting off the cage is Randy's best shot , and its easier said than done. Machida has some power , definitely has speed and accuracy , with Couture at his age and his chin being ever so worn i cant see him holding onto the clinch for 3 rounds and escaping points winner. Id be very impressed if he did one of the biggest surprises in recent times.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I know what you meant, like I said though that isn't the style of wrestler to beat Machida because shooting requires distance and giving Machida distance allows him to impose his game which is movement, you punch shoot what ever and he isn't there. that is his strategy and you can't let him play his game.


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## Shady1 (Jan 27, 2011)

if Couture does that strategy Machida will beat him easily


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Been saying since this fight was announced anyone saying Machida will walk through Randy is in for a surprise. Machida's weakness has appeared to be the clinch. Rampage controlled him there as well as Shogun. Randy is a beast in the clinch, if he locks up with Machida and gets him to the cage he's going to take his lunch money.

And everyone saying Randy is too slow, yeah well so is Rampage and he clinched and controlled Machida for two rounds.

I'm not saying Randy will win, but I won't be shocked at all if Randy takes a decision from Machida. I learned a long time ago to never count Captain America out, the man is a master gameplaner.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Toxic said:


> I know what you meant, like I said though that isn't the style of wrestler to beat Machida because shooting requires distance and giving Machida distance allows him to impose his game which is movement, you punch shoot what ever and he isn't there. that is his strategy and you can't let him play his game.


I disagree, i think a guy who needs to get closer is more vulnerable than a guy for his legs at distance.



Life B Ez said:


> Been saying since this fight was announced anyone saying Machida will walk through Randy is in for a surprise. Machida's weakness has appeared to be the clinch. Rampage controlled him there as well as Shogun. Randy is a beast in the clinch, if he locks up with Machida and gets him to the cage he's going to take his lunch money.
> 
> And everyone saying Randy is too slow, yeah well so is Rampage and he clinched and controlled Machida for two rounds.
> 
> I'm not saying Randy will win, but I won't be shocked at all if Randy takes a decision from Machida. I learned a long time ago to never count Captain America out, the man is a master gameplaner.


Couture isnt a master game planner he has 10 losses.... He sticks to his strengths which makes him a smart fighter.


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## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

***** de Amigo said:


> I disagree, i think a guy who needs to get closer is more vulnerable than a guy for his legs at distance.


Plz tell me, who has been able to shoot in Machida effectively?

I only recall him being taken down from the clinch position by Nakamura and Sokky.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

***** de Amigo said:


> I disagree, i think a guy who needs to get closer is more vulnerable than a guy for his legs at distance.
> 
> 
> 
> Couture isnt a master game planner he has 10 losses.... He sticks to his strengths which makes him a smart fighter.


Watch his fight when he beat chuck. Watch the fights against gonzaga and big Tim. He is a master gameplanner your wrong what you say above. He locates his opponents weaknesses and attacks them. You watch the first 10 seconds against silvia and come back and say he's not a master planner. That fake and punch was a special plan just for Silvia he even said it after the fight.Take a look at the two fights against Vitor as well. 
You cant just walk up to a guy and clinch with him and wrestle, you gotta have a plan to get there by exploiting your opponents weakness


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

Life B Ez said:


> And everyone saying Randy is too slow, yeah well so is Rampage and he clinched and controlled Machida for two rounds.


I thought Machida won that fight but aside from that Rampage could threaten Machida with some serious power. Randy can not. That is going to make a world of difference in how much freedom Machida has to avoid the clinch or work in it. That difference will allow Machida to let his hands go so that the whole fight looks like the 3rd round against Rampage.


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## c-dub (Nov 18, 2010)

Machida just needs to get his mojo back. He was too scared of Rampage and needs to make sure he is not controlled my Randy....Randy is serious business but he's also very predictable...how funny would it be if Lyoto gives Randy of 1st round take-down and choke-out like Randy did to Toney? lol


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

The way Rampage was able to clinch effectively makes me think randy will be able to do it even better........but i just keep seeing that straight left landing down the pipe all night.


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## deansheppard (May 18, 2009)

I really want to see both fighters win but unfortunately there can be only one. I think Randy will definitely have Lyoto pinned against the cage at some point but not being able to do much and it will probably be split up. Lyoto will want to beat Randy's body up with his kicks (i would love to see that knee again, the one he landed to Tito's body), and then go after it in the 3rd. I predict Machida TKO rd 3.

How awsome would it be to see old man Couture slay The Dragon though.


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## LTrain5563 (Feb 16, 2011)

Drogo said:


> I thought Machida won that fight but aside from that Rampage could threaten Machida with some serious power. Randy can not. That is going to make a world of difference in how much freedom Machida has to avoid the clinch or work in it. That difference will allow Machida to let his hands go so that the whole fight looks like the 3rd round against Rampage.


Yes Machida didn't opened up his striking against Rampage bc he knew there was a chance to get KO if he did. It's a metal block that happens when you've seen a fighter exploit others who have made mistakes against them. He knew Rampage had powerful one punch KO power and that made him aperhensive to completely open up his striking game against him.

With that being said I don't totally agree that just because Couture doesn't have KO power in his hands, that Machida is going to completely open up his striking game. That same metal block exsists. Expect this time instead fearing the KO he might well fear the outcome if Couture able to continuously take him down. 

He has seen Couture take down many great strikers and control them on the ground. Whether you want to believe it or not that will stop Machida from competely opening up his striking game.

So while Machida might not have used all his striking tools against Rampage bc of his Striking power in his last fight, he might not use all of his Striking tools against Couture bc of his takedown ability in this fight.

Personally I seen more fighter don't open up bc of fear of take down over fear of KO.

In order for a fighter to open up there whole game, they need to have confidence that they will hold the advantage in every aspect of the fight.

Neither will have that lux. in this fight, so each will avoid particular manuvers to ensure they find themselves in the least amount of bad positions thoughout the course of the fight.

Just because I chose to discuss Couture's advantage in this post, that doesn't mean that I don't believe that Couture won't have mental block going in to the fight as well. I just have seen alot of people in this thread discuss the appreheniveness of Machida's game against Page and their belief that that fear wouldn't exists because Couture doesn't have the same striking capablities.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Drogo said:


> I thought Machida won that fight but aside from that Rampage could threaten Machida with some serious power. Randy can not. That is going to make a world of difference in how much freedom Machida has to avoid the clinch or work in it. That difference will allow Machida to let his hands go so that the whole fight looks like the 3rd round against Rampage.


Machida....let his hands go......HAHAHAHAHA that's a good one. When you can point to a single fight he did that in I'll give that a mild amount of thought. But he has never just "let them fly" and don't say Rashad it wasn't until after Rashad was hurt that Lyoto let it go and it was because Rashad was on skates.



***** de Amigo said:


> Couture isnt a master game planner he has 10 losses.... He sticks to his strengths which makes him a smart fighter.


He has 10 losses, most at HW where he's under sized. And it's not that he doesn't stick to his plan, it's that he is able to implement it, just doing that takes a lot of planning and skilled planning. Look at guys like G-Sot, we all know he was trying to stick to his plan, get it to the ground, he couldn't. Because he didn't game out more than one way to get it there. Randy always figures out a way to make guys fight his fight......i.e great gameplanning.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> Machida....let his hands go......HAHAHAHAHA that's a good one. When you can point to a single fight he did that in I'll give that a mild amount of thought.But he has never just "let them fly" and don't say Rashad it wasn't until after Rashad was hurt that Lyoto let it go and it was because Rashad was on skates.
> 
> 
> 
> He has 10 losses, most at HW where he's under sized. And it's not that he doesn't stick to his plan, it's that he is able to implement it, just doing that takes a lot of planning and skilled planning. Look at guys like G-Sot, we all know he was trying to stick to his plan, get it to the ground, he couldn't. Because he didn't game out more than one way to get it there. Randy always figures out a way to make guys fight his fight......i.e great gameplanning.


1. Me and you have different opinion of " letting your hands go" to me when a fighter lets his hands go he throws combinations or more than one punch either with intent or just to up the pace. Just because he doesnt use the Tank Abbot approach of throw my hands wildly doesnt mean he isnt letting his hands go.










Here in this one he " lets his hands go" rather than throwing single punches. 










In this one he is throwing his hands again letting them go.


2. Randy couture won his UFC HW belt against Maurince smith who is probably smaller. The he left and came back and defeated Randleman again not Huge. Randy faced either similar sized guys or cans, the only big guys were Rizzo , Barnett and then returned to HW to faced Sylvia , Lesnar and Gonzaga. So your argument is irrelevant.

3. Randy doesnt have Master gameplans , using his strengths wrestling isnt a master plan. When a guy like Penn know for his striking goes in VS Fitch and wrestles him thats a master game plan because he is fighting to beat the other guy with a plan. By using your best skill i.e wrestling in Randy's case he isnt master minding anything he simply is sticking to what he is good like i said which is smart but you dont need to plan out using wrestling when you're Randy couture lmao.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

***** de Amigo said:


> 1. Me and you have different opinion of " letting your hands go" to me when a fighter lets his hands go he throws combinations or more than one punch either with intent or just to up the pace. Just because he doesnt use the Tank Abbot approach of throw my hands wildly doesnt mean he isnt letting his hands go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Both of those gifs are either at the end when he finished the fight (Thiago) or off when he hurt someone with Rampage. He doesn't let his hands go or throw combos until after he's hurt a guy or thinks he has.

You completely missed my point on gameplanning. I didn't say he creates a new style at all or comes in doing something that isn't his strength. I said he uses great gameplanning to IMPLEMENT his strength and uses it well. Everyone knows Randy us going to clinch and use the cage, but it's the way Randy is able to create chances to clinch and get it there that makes his gameplanning great. 

Like I said we call know that Randy is going to clinch, but how does it get it there? That's where the game plans come in and that's where Randy excels. The first fight with Chuck is a great example. Chuck wasn't going to go to the ground and Randy cut off the cage and pressure him to the fence with his greco. He didn't just shoot a double and try to drag him down, he did it differently against Tito. As I've now said several times, it's not what he's doing with his strength its how he's applying his strength and putting the fight where he wants it.


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## f4rtknock3r (Nov 22, 2010)

I love how Rampage hurt machida with that hook in the end


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

I´m still very impressed of how Rampage came back from that flury. wow, just wow!


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Life B Ez said:


> Both of those gifs are either at the end when he finished the fight (Thiago) or off when he hurt someone with Rampage. He doesn't let his hands go or throw combos until after he's hurt a guy or thinks he has.


Hmm I think I disagree. Machida doesn't brawl, that's for sure. But the timing of when he "lets his hands go" is irrelevant imo. 

Clearly in the first gif against Rampage he lets his hands go, and Rampage is the one that attacked first. But even then it really doesn't matter what time it happened or who struck first. How many times has a guy been hurt and the other guy "didn't let his hands go". It is an expression that, imo, literally refers to throwing lots of punches while not being defensive, regardless of the situation.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

You can see in the Vera fight how leg kicks and especially knees gave Randy the toughest time in the entire fight.

Now two of Lyoto's most favourite techniques are knees and body kicks from all angles, wich will be very hard for a 50 year old to react to. 

Also, if you think Lyoto doesn't kick as hard or knee's as hard as Vera just watch Rampage backstage and watch Lyoto's favourite knee strike.



Life B Ez said:


> Both of those gifs are either at the end when he finished the fight (Thiago) or off when he hurt someone with Rampage. He doesn't let his hands go or throw combos until after he's hurt a guy or thinks he has.


Rampage wasn't hurt, he got hurt by Lyoto's flury of punches wich = letting his hands go!


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> You can see in the Vera fight how leg kicks and especially knees gave Randy the toughest time in the entire fight.
> 
> Now two of Lyoto's most favourite techniques are knees and body kicks from all angles, wich will be very hard for a 50 year old to react to.
> 
> Also, if you think Lyoto doesn't kick as hard or knee's as hard as Vera just watch Rampage backstage and watch Lyoto's favourite knee strike.



I was thinking the same thing. I mean, even Nog was having good success kicking Randy.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Randy got kicked for 5 rounds by Rizzo who had a leg like an Ax back then. He survived. Granted he's never been great at dealing with kicks, but I don't believe he's ever lost because of kicks. Gonazaga even broke his arm with a kick and he used the same arm to finish the fight....


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> Rampage wasn't hurt, he got hurt by Lyoto's flury of punches wich = letting his hands go!


Rampage gets stunned by that first signature punch that Lyoto throws when Rampage is coming forward it's what stops him first. Then he hurts him with a left that backs him up. Then he follows and starts letting it go. 

I guess my opinion of letting it go is more Chuck Liddell stalking someone down and throwing if the guy is hurt or not. Machida throws combos and punches but it's just not letting it go in my eyes.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> *Rampage gets stunned by that first signature punch that Lyoto throws* when Rampage is coming forward it's what stops him first. Then he hurts him with a left that backs him up. Then he follows and starts letting it go.
> 
> I guess my opinion of letting it go is more Chuck Liddell stalking someone down and throwing if the guy is hurt or not. Machida throws combos and punches but it's just not letting it go in my eyes.


Well Ez, that first signature punch is of course part of the combination and flury of punhces wich follow. It just happens to be the first punch! Really dunno what you call letting his hands go and what not?! Also letting your hands go includes kicks and knee's as well, when an elite striker does it. 

Liddell was a great brawler Ez, who relied on his chin to absorb punches throughout his career. Not really a great striker, just a sloppy heavy boxer with not so good defensive Boxing.


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## c-dub (Nov 18, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> Well Ez, that first signature punch is of course part of the combination and flury of punhces wich follow. It just happens to be the first punch! Really dunno what you call letting his hands go and what not?! Also letting your hands go includes kicks and knee's as well, when an elite striker does it.
> 
> Liddell was a great brawler Ez, who relied on his chin to absorb punches throughout his career. Not really a great striker, just a sloppy heavy boxer with not so good defensive Boxing.


I'll have to disagree with you on that one, Liddel might have been a brawler but he was pretty accurate and devestating with those flurries he'd throw. I don't see how you can consider strikes like that "not a great striker" when that was what he used to win most of his fights....just saying.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> Well Ez, that first signature punch is of course part of the combination and flury of punhces wich follow. It just happens to be the first punch! Really dunno what you call letting his hands go and what not?! Also letting your hands go includes kicks and knee's as well, when an elite striker does it.
> 
> Liddell was a great brawler Ez, who relied on his chin to absorb punches throughout his career. Not really a great striker, just a sloppy heavy boxer with not so good defensive Boxing.


Good god, I'm sorry I don't agree about Machida. Like I said I just don't call what Machida does letting his hands go. He throws strikes, but my point was that he never comes forward unless he hurts a guy. That punch that hurt Ramapage would have ended up in a clinch if it hadn't hurt him. Machida wouldn't have thrown another punch. I can say that pretty confidently because that is exactly what happened through that whole fight.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

c-dub said:


> I'll have to disagree with you on that one, Liddel might have been a brawler but he was pretty accurate and devestating with those flurries he'd throw. I don't see how you can consider strikes like that "not a great striker" when that was what he used to win most of his fights....just saying.


Right, just like Wanderlay Silva. I think the way you can explain it is, that there weren't many elite strikers in MMA back then. But Chuck and Silva were definitely great for there time.



Life B Ez said:


> Good god, I'm sorry I don't agree about Machida. Like I said I just don't call what Machida does letting his hands go. He throws strikes, but my point was that he never comes forward unless he hurts a guy. That punch that hurt Ramapage would have ended up in a clinch if it hadn't hurt him. Machida wouldn't have thrown another punch. I can say that pretty confidently because that is exactly what happened through that whole fight.


Why do you get emotional, I wasn't! I guess we just have a different outlook on "letting your hands go". The first Shogun fight disproves your logic already about Machida "letting his hands go".


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> Why do you get emotional, I wasn't! I guess we just have a different outlook on "letting your hands go". The first Shogun fight disproves your logic already about Machida "letting his hands go".


I literally said that a few posts ago that my opinion of letting hands go is not yours. 

And the first Shogun fight actually supports my point. He threw two real flurries, the knees right at the start, which did come from no where. And in the third when he got Shogun to the cage, he chased Shogun because he was backing up after Machida landing a punch and Machida thought he was hurt. Other than that there was no combos really thrown on either side.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

well, different outlook then


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