# ***OFFICIAL*** Benson Henderson vs. Josh Thomson Thread



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

*Lightweight bout: 155 pounds*
*Main event - Five round fight*















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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

This should be a really good fight, i hope it doesnt go all five rounds.. Benson is impossible to win a decision against, even when you beat him soundly...


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## GDPofDRB (Apr 18, 2013)

Josh in a very close yet victorious effort. Split Decision.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I like Josh, but Bendo knows how to drag fights out and get those decision wins.* I think whole Josh may start strong that over 5 rounds Bendo will pick up 3 of them. I expect it to be a close fight.

*This statement does not apply if your name is Anthony Pettis.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Not sure how much to read into coaches saying it was a terrible camp for Thomson. But he is usually game anyway. I expect it to be a competitive fight. Perhaps Bendo took it up a notch after that loss.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

I Don't think it will be all that close.... Henderson should win at least 4 rounds.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Thomson via submission.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Not sure how much to read into coaches saying it was a terrible camp for Thomson.


I think they are trying to play mind games, I don't buy that for a second.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Henderson wins on the judges score cards in a hugely controversial decision.

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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

I dont care how. As long as Bendo goes down.

Praise Jesus.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

I don't mind Bendo at all, but I sort of hope Thomson wins. If Bendo beats up all of the contenders and Pettis manages to hold onto his title in the mean time, they could be forced to clash again. A potential third fight between them doesn't sound very appealing in my opinion.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I love the fight but hate the way it will effect one guys place in the standings. 

I hope josh wins cause I think him vs Pettis is the best lw title fight possible right now


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Cheering for Josh purely because Benson winning puts him back at the top in a division where he's lost twice to the champ.

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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

K R Y said:


> Henderson wins on the judges score cards in a hugely controversial decision.
> 
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This might actually happen. Thompson constantly attacking and using his superior speed while Bendo is countering. I can already see it.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Josh wins this soundly.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

I dont like Bendo but I think he can use his athleticism to win.

Ill be rooting for josh though.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I think Henderson takes this due to his size/weight advantage and I think he wins pretty impressively. I expect Thomson to be pretty game though but not be able to come up with anything to really threaten Henderson.

Henderson takes a clean sweep on the scorecards, possibly with a 49-46 thrown in there.


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## JWP (Jun 4, 2007)

anyone else think bendo looked abit gaunt at the weigh-ins, i guess he normally is

yeh i just hope its a goodun


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Not sure how people are taking Bendo by rather easy decision. Thomson just fought competitively with Melendez, perhaps should of won. Even when he loses he is in fights it seems. The guy is 35 and said to have had a bad camp so there is certainly more chance that he lays an egg.

When Bendo wins he usually wins close, either way decisions. He easily beat Diaz, but he just matched up way too good for him. Other than that he defiantly leaves fighters in the fight.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

War Josh. Thompson has got this even if Bendi is a tough fight for him


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## Jumanji (Mar 30, 2011)

Never seen Benson get manhandled like that.


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

Thomson 10-9


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Really don't like either of these guys at all but I'll go with Josh because he is so damn attractive, jesus


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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

Josh is man handling Benson here


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## Jumanji (Mar 30, 2011)

Got it 2-0 Josh


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## boatoar (May 14, 2010)

dang. josh's hand being broken is terrible. expected the smooth ud, but want the punk vic. dunno how he can do it without his right hand. elbows are harder to land when Benson knows they're coming. very hard to grapple.blah. 

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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

Dang, Thomson's right hand is broken.


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## Jumanji (Mar 30, 2011)

Damn this completely changes the fight, very unfortunate.


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## GDPofDRB (Apr 18, 2013)

29-28 Thomson. This sucks about his hand. He's better then Henderson.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

3-1 Thompson on my card


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## Jumanji (Mar 30, 2011)

3-1 Thomson for me. Pretty clearly.


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## GDPofDRB (Apr 18, 2013)

The 4th was close. I'd lean josh but judges could have this any way right now.


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

3-1 Thomson. Survive the last round and he got this. 

Didn't expect him to beat Henderson in every aspect of MMA man. With a broken hand too.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Jumanji said:


> 3-1 Thomson for me. Pretty clearly.


Ditto. Thompson looks great.

Henderson needs to cut his hair or at least put it in cotton rows like Faber.


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## boatoar (May 14, 2010)

I think Henderson wins a decision here. the online odds aren't always indicative but they briefly had Thomson +1000 going into the 5th. not that they're always right, gsp was +300 going into 5th vs johny on same book. thsr was a very diff fight though. go josh. wasn't able to get another bet in. Lol went down too quick

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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

What is rogan talking about Josh has to make something happen? Am I the only one who thinks Bendo needs to finish?


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Yet another controversial decision coming up for Bendo. Don't even know who to score it for. I'd say its 2 and 2 going into the 5th but I could see the 2nd and 4th going either way.


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## boatoar (May 14, 2010)

yes. Henderson doesn't lose decisions. 

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## boatoar (May 14, 2010)

this one will be split I think but I bet two have it 49-46 to make it even more baffling. just a feeling. 

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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

1,2,4 for Josh 3 and 5 for Bendo don't see any rounds as being overly controversial


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Thomson won, but godammit, how Big John blocked the camera so many occasions...


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## boatoar (May 14, 2010)

want you to be right. I have money on josh decision. its +650. gooo josh. but I fully expect a bendo smooth dec

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## Roki977 (Jul 13, 2011)

Rogan was full of BS in this fight. Like only Henderson worked great. Thomson did great and I am impressed with him against so strong opponent.


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## boatoar (May 14, 2010)

I cannot win. was a guarantee.

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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Bullsh!t !!!!!!!!!!


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## GDPofDRB (Apr 18, 2013)

48-47 Thomson on my card, expecting some bs...


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## Cerroney! (Dec 4, 2011)

48-47 Thomson. Bad decision I think.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Bendo really needs to change his style up. I feel like he just gives away rounds, which is why all his fights are so god damn close.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I had it 4-1 Thomson and I thought it was pretty clear.
What an awful decision.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

How come someone saw 4 rounds to Bendo ????


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## Jumanji (Mar 30, 2011)

49-46...Come on that's just ridiculous.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Not shocked at all. Gave Josh 1, 2 and 4.

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## anderton46 (Apr 23, 2010)

Sigh, I had the same as Life B Ez, 1,2 and 4 to Josh. Due to them being close on the feet but Josh had his back....


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## GDPofDRB (Apr 18, 2013)

And I'm again baffled. 

Josh Thomson is better then Ben Henderson, with a broken hand.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

GDPofDRB said:


> And I'm again baffled.
> 
> Josh Thomson is better then Ben Henderson, with a broken hand.


Exactly.


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

49-46 Henderson? What the f? Seriously fire that judge.

Josh won rounds 1,2 and 4 with Bendo winning 3 and 5. Round 2 was pretty close though so if a judge gave it to Bendo its still understandable. 4 rounds to Bendo though? Thats bullshit.

Pity that Thomson's thumb got broken. Think he could have won a clear cut decision. Still would like to see him vs Pettis.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

I don't know what judges are looking for anymore:thumbsdown:

Would like to see which rounds the judge who scored it 49-46 Henderson picked. 1,2,4 for Thompson was my scorecard.


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## Roki977 (Jul 13, 2011)

Every time Rogan is routing like that I have a feeling that he knows something that we dont.


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## boatoar (May 14, 2010)

boatoar said:


> this one will be split I think but I bet two have it 49-46 to make it even more baffling. just a feeling.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


ok, only one did. still, hilariously enept. 

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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Oh come on. 49-46 for Bendo isn't crazy at all. Thomson's only clear round was #1. That's it. 2 and 4 could have gone either way, while the 3rd was clearly for Bendo.


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## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

I had it 48-47 either way. Split decision was the right call. It was a close fight. Thomas just allowed Benson to constantly move forward & look like he was the aggressor. That and when Thomas took Benson down, he did no damage. Sure he took his back, but there was no real threat of a submission. Benson just looked like he outworked him through out the fight & that was the difference in the close rounds.


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## anderton46 (Apr 23, 2010)

It seems like taking someones back isn't scored as highly as 1 minute of controlling on the fence.


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## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

Roki977 said:


> Every time Rogan is routing like that I have a feeling that he knows something that we dont.


I have to agree with that, sadly. I couldn't believe his commentary on this fight. Even before the scorecards were read Rogan was talking about how Benson was back on track with that performance.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I really don't understand how anyone could score the fight for Henderson.
I gave Josh every round except the third and I'm not biased, I dislike both fighters immensely.


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## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

I had Josh winning 1-2-4- and 5. 2 and 4 were close, but I cannot give Benson 4 rounds. These bad decisions are ruining the sport for me. 

I'm off to sleep.


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

Alessia said:


> I have to agree with that, sadly. I couldn't believe his commentary on this fight. Even before the scorecards were read Rogan was talking about how Benson was back on track with that performance.


Yeah. In the 5th round, Rogan said Benson looked very good tonight or something along those lines. Said Thomson needed to do something to get the win too. Weird considering Thomson should have been up 3-1 then.

Edit: 

Its crazy how Benson manages to always get the decision.



This probably should be his record.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

meh it wasn't a robbery or anything. I thought Benson would win by split. Josh simply didn't do enough with his chances & it ended up looking like Benson was always, well, in control. Smooth. heh


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I don't want to be disrespectful but I'd really like for someone to give me their case for Henderson winning. I haven't been this stunned by a decision since Phan/Garcia. Everyone at the bar I'm at is absolutely baffled.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Neither fighter did very much. Thomson would get Bendo's back every now and again but would never come close to a finish or do any damage with it. Bendo would then stand up and either barely outstrike Thomson or immediately go for the clinch. If I made an argument for Benson, I'd say he was the more active striker and overall did more damage.

EDIT: Fight metric has the strike difference at 114 for Bendo and a mere 33 for Thomson. Granted stats aren't the greatest indicator but that is one hell of a difference.


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## sucrets (Jul 8, 2007)

GDPofDRB said:


> And I'm again baffled.
> 
> Josh Thomson is better *then* Ben Henderson, with a broken hand.


Than.

And no, he is not.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

TanyaJade said:


> I don't want to be disrespectful but I'd really like for someone to give me their case for Henderson winning. I haven't been this stunned by a decision since Phan/Garcia. Everyone at the bar I'm at is absolutely baffled.


50-45 Henderson

Rd 1 Thomson gets the takedown and body triangle, throws four punches in 3 minutes doesn't land a single submission, Henderson outlands Thomson for the rest of the first, takes him down and sinks in a deep head arm triangle. Henderson wins on striking submissions, Thomson wins on takedowns and top control(which was more side control).

Rd 2 Henderson pushes Thomson against the cage, lands several significant body shots, Thomson gets a takedown lands the body triangle does not come close to a submission doesn't throw a punch. Henderson gets out with the striking matchup with Thomson again. Rd 2 Benson Henderson

Rd 3 Henderson takes Thomson down, strikes with him for the majority of the round, avoids every strike Thomson throws till about the 1:56 mark. Thomson gets Hendersons back doesn't get a takedown, doesn't land any shots, Henderson reverses takes Thomson down works some ground and pound Rd 3 Henderson (borderline 10-8 Thomson landed maybe 4 shots for the whole round).

Rd 4 Both guys enchange kicks, Thomson with volume, Henderson with power. Thomson gets a takedown and actually throws some strikes! 3:50 Benson lands mission control and starts beating Thomson down, Thomson is on top but Henderson lands more. Thomson lets Benson up...wait no he didn't Thomson lands the most significant strikes for him for the fight. They grapple, Henderson reverses engages in gnp kicks the back of his legs. Thomson takes him down for a third time, gets Hendersons back and does nothing...lands one punch panders to the crowd...should be trying to steal the round. Close 3TD's are impressive but Thomson did very little..I give it to Henderson for winning the striking engages.

Rd 5 Henderson and Thomson are now engaging, Henderson is landing four strong shots to every one of Thomson, Thomson gets a trip, Benson is back up. Henderson is pushing the action. Benson hits another hard body shot, pitter patter by Thomson, Thomson gets another takedown, Henderson is landing more significant strikes with back elbows than Thomson. They break Henderson overwhelming lands strikes over Thomson. Rd 5 - Henderson

I understand people feel Henderson lost that because of the tds and body triangles put Thomson threw no strikes, was outstruck in positions that normally shouldn't be. Give Josh an A for defense but Bendo landed more, landed better and actually came closer to finishing the fight than Thomson.

Rd 2, 3, and 5 - easy for Benson
1 and 4 close but I would give both to Benson Rd 1 for sub attempts, Rd 4 for striking.


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

Ariel Helwani ‏@arielhelwani 1h
Thomson: "I have no regrets. This ride has been great. ... This might be it."

Ariel Helwani ‏@arielhelwani 57m
He said he's been feeling this way since before he was offered the title shot. He'd love to do TV work for FOX.

Would have been great if he retired after a title fight.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

what do you know I picked bendo to win by seedy decision and there's yet another seedy decision. Tanya fill me in on how you scored it


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Judges are crap, makes the UFC look weak. 


Clearly Josh should have won.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> what do you know I picked bendo to win by seedy decision and there's yet another seedy decision. Tanya fill me in on how you scored it


I had Josh winning every round but the third. I guess I need to watch the fight again but I thought Josh clearly won rounds 1, 4 and 5. Thought round two was close, but still gave it to Josh.

John,

The striking in the fight was insignificant. No real damage was done on the feet except in the third round by Ben and it was brief. I do agree that Henderson won the round though. The rest of the fight consisted on Josh landing multiple takedowns and controlling the fight with his grappling and Henderson landing pitter patter strikes in the clinch. Like I said I'm not biased but I clearly thought Thomson's grappling outweighed Henderson's striking.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

TanyaJade said:


> I had Josh winning every round but the third. I guess I need to watch the fight again but I thought Josh clearly won rounds 1, 4 and 5. Thought round two was close, but still gave it to Josh.
> 
> John,
> 
> The striking in the fight was insignificant. No real damage was done on the feet except in the third round by Ben and it was brief. I do agree that Henderson won the round though. The rest of the fight consisted on Josh landing multiple takedowns and controlling the fight with his grappling and Henderson landing pitter patter strikes in the clinch. Like I said I'm not biased but I clearly thought Thomson's grappling outweighed Henderson's striking.


Me too, bendo is the king of dodgy decisions and I don't like it one bit, and the fact that josh did this with one hand basically for the whole fight just makes it look even more unimpressive by bendo.


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## AlanS (Jun 16, 2009)

Bendo got rnd 3 other than that it was all Thomson. Hope Josh doesn't call it a day like he's suggested. He lost two dodgy decisions to Melendez and Henderson, it's not anything to be ashamed of. He's still a top LW 

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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Tough fight to call, but Josh had it IMO.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Honestly Henderson's fight with Diaz was one of the only times I've been impressed with him. Well, and his fight with Jim Miller. Bocek and Guida gave him fits, the first Frankie fight was one of the closest fights I've seen in UFC history, the second fight was about as bad of a robbery as his fight with Thomson was, I thought Melendez beat him, and we all saw what Pettis did to him.

I'm not trying to shit all over Henderson but he's just not that impressive. He's just a huge, strong LW with great cardio who usually gets into wild scrambles and manages to wind up on top due to his strength. Tonight he got soundly outgrappled by a guy with a broken hand who couldn't throw a real punch and could barely grab a hold of him. And somehow he managed to win a decision by landing a bunch of weak strikes?

He's like the LW version of Jake Shields.
But he keeps winning, and I guess that's what matters.

And did anyone hear how Henderson said "I'll take any win," at the presser? He seemed more irritating than normal. Too bad Dana didn't show up.

Oh, and Ariel has lost a step. No wonder he lost his job.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

TanyaJade said:


> Honestly Henderson's fight with Diaz was one of the only times I've been impressed with him. Well, and his fight with Jim Miller. Bocek and Guida gave him fits, the first Frankie fight was one of the closest fights I've seen in UFC history, the second fight was about as bad of a robbery as his fight with Thomson was, I thought Melendez beat him, and we all saw what Pettis did to him.
> 
> I'm not trying to shit all over Henderson but he's just not that impressive. He's just a huge, strong LW with great cardio who usually gets into wild scrambles and manages to wind up on top due to his strength. Tonight he got soundly outgrappled by a guy with a broken hand who couldn't throw a real punch and could barely grab a hold of him. And somehow he managed to win a decision by landing a bunch of weak strikes?
> 
> ...


Ariel has gotten way worse as a journalist, yeah I saw that by henderson he really is an i'll take anything undeserved asswhipe. He used to be a really good finisher in the wec and I cant even give him credit for the diaz win since nate started mailing it in when he learned gil was coming over. And Jim miller as much as I love him is too much of a midget to deal with the upper tier guys so meh to that too.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

I wasn't really scoring... but was a fight that could go either way, but do lean more towards Thomson taking it. Henderson always seems to get the decision though. He is lucky Thomson was injured.


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

TanyaJade said:


> I had Josh winning every round but the third. I guess I need to watch the fight again but I thought Josh clearly won rounds 1, 4 and 5. Thought round two was close, but still gave it to Josh.



No need to rewatch, I scored the same way. 
49-46 Josh


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## ProdigyPenn (Sep 9, 2011)

Josh Thomson should have won. In fact, I gave him 49-46 over Henderson (easily should have gotten 48-47 nod)

But yet another controversial win for Henderson.

Let see,

Rd 1: Very technical round. I guess is quite unanimously agreed that Thomson take this (even by Henderson corner). Thomson via early takedown controlling Henderson with that body triangle for most of the round.

Rd 2: This a much closer round then 1st. Henderson was out-striking Thomson on the feet and got the better of him from clinch. Thomson had his moment with good takedown and good grappling. Tried to control Henderson and threatening him with submission from body triangle but not as successful as the first.

I scored it for Thomson. But won't argue if people gave it to Henderson. 

Rd 3: Henderson seriously took over the round. No argument why this is not a Henderson round.

Rd 4: Thomson was out grappling Henderson. Scored 2 takedown this round. Both guys threaten each other with Submission (Henderson with triangle choke after gotten takendown and controlled by Thomson and Thomson took Henderson back) after the second takedown. Overall, Thomson was the more dominant and has a more effective grappling and this should be the deciding factor. Afterall, much of this round is consist of grappling.

Rd 5: Both guy was letting it go in this final round. But Thomson threw Henderson off his feet twice (once tripping him and once catching his kick and threw him off). Both guy landing good shots again each other. Overall, Thomson look better in this round. 

49-46 for Thomson (while doing it with a broken hand).

Anyway, I feel for Josh Thomson. This is the second time he came up short in close decision (when he should have won) where a UFC title shot is on the line. The first time was against Melendez in the Strikeforce LW title fight. I thought he should have won that as well.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

I thought Thomson had it, but to be fair I would have been ok with 48-47 either way. Though thomson did more in the rounds he won clearly than Bendo did in the rounds he won.

I gave rounds 1 and 4 to Thomson clearly whereas I gave Henderson Round 3 clearly. The other 2 were a toss up.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

K R Y said:


> Henderson wins on the judges score cards in a hugely controversial decision.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Sigh.

Josh beat him with one hand. What is it with Hendersons getting gift decisions? Decision Ben is giving Hendo a run for his money.

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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

John8204 said:


> 50-45 Henderson
> 
> Rd 1 Thomson gets the takedown and body triangle, throws four punches in 3 minutes doesn't land a single submission, Henderson outlands Thomson for the rest of the first, takes him down and sinks in a deep head arm triangle. Henderson wins on striking submissions, Thomson wins on takedowns and top control(which was more side control).
> 
> ...


I know you are biased because there was a moment Bendo was simply tossed to the ground landing on his head and was one of the most epic points of this fight, but mysteriously, it doesn't even show in your detailed report. 5-0 Bendo, give me a break...


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

I had it even going into the fifth. Thomson clearly took 1 and 4 in my book, round 2 was close, round 3 was Benson's. Round 5 was close as well but I would have scored it for Josh without a bad conscience. I agree with a 48-47 scoring for either guy, certainly disagree with the 49-46 one judge gave Bendo.


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## Swp (Jan 2, 2010)

I dont know what you guys scored but for me was clearly that Benson won , but josh looked amazing and if wasnt for the broken hand 100% he would ve stop the fight by submission or tko ... He fought to a split decision with a broken hand ffs... 
Benson was lucky that Josh got injured not for the decision ffs... I was amazed that was a split decision Josh won the first and maybe only maybe the 4th..
He shouldnt retire , he looked like a real nr 1 contender and I do believe Josh vs Pettis could be a the fight of the year and give Pettis a lot of truble ...
His jiujitsu in this fight was amazing


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## MMATycoon (Aug 15, 2011)

Benson won in my opinion. Nikita showed his class, 25sec tko, fantastic! 

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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

TanyaJade said:


> I had Josh winning every round but the third. I guess I need to watch the fight again but I thought Josh clearly won rounds 1, 4 and 5. Thought round two was close, but still gave it to Josh.
> 
> John,
> 
> The striking in the fight was insignificant. No real damage was done on the feet except in the third round by Ben and it was brief. I do agree that Henderson won the round though. The rest of the fight consisted on Josh landing multiple takedowns and controlling the fight with his grappling and Henderson landing pitter patter strikes in the clinch. Like I said I'm not biased but I clearly thought Thomson's grappling outweighed Henderson's striking.


See I would say Henderson's striking outweighed Thomson's grappling. Thomson got the take downs and back mount but Henderson lifted him up every time. So while Thomson was holding on he didn't control Henderson's body, didn't register a single submission, and failed to do any striking. Henderson's most significant strikes were not to the head of Thomson but to the body and you could hear those blows. Also it wasn't like Henderson didn't land his own takedowns. So in the end does one extra takedown register more than a 3-1 striking advantage and a significant submission attempt.




MMA-Sportsman said:


> I know you are biased because there was a moment Bendo was simply tossed to the ground landing on his head and was one of the most epic points of this fight, but mysteriously, it doesn't even show in your detailed report. 5-0 Bendo, give me a break...


You can go either way with that one. You could score it a takedown or you could deduct a point for it being an illegal head spike.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

John8204 said:


> You can go *either way* with that one. You could score it a takedown or you could deduct a point for it being an illegal head spike.


OK. First way:
It wasn't a Take Down. It was an amazing, humiliating, hilarious, epic, soul taking Take Down.

Other way:
You are saying JDS has grounds to request Cain's DQ for the way he was TKO in their third and last fight as people suggested that was an intentional spike as well back then.

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/143497-official-cain-velasquez-vs-junior-dos-santos-iii-thread-15.html#post2350601


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> OK. First way:
> It wasn't a Take Down. It was an amazing, humiliating, hilarious, epic, soul taking Take Down.
> 
> Other way:
> ...













JDS has a submission in therefore he controls his position and Velasquez can than spike him.

This is legal









But what happened was closer to this










and this










What I think makes it questionable is Thomson's control of Henderson's body, and that Henderson was able to get his hands up but clearly Thomson drops and drives him into the canvas.



> A pile driver is considered to be any throw where you control your opponent's body placing his feet straight up in the air with his head straight down and then forcibly drive your opponents head into the canvas or flooring material. It should be noted when a fighter is placed into a submission hold by their opponent, if that fighter is capable of elevating their opponent they may bring that opponent down in any fashion they desire because they are not in control of their opponents body. The fighter who is attempting the submission can either adjust their position, or let go of their hold before being slammed to the canvas.


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## MMATycoon (Aug 15, 2011)

Nikita shocked everyone with that finish


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

John8204 said:


> JDS has a submission in therefore he controls his position and Velasquez can than spike him.
> 
> This is legal
> 
> ...


Ok. Understood clearly and appreciate. :thumbsup:

Anyway, that was a magical TD.


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

My wife and I both had Josh winning 48-47. But what really had me surprised about the fight was the superior strength of Thomson in that fight. He just looked huge and rag-dolled Henderson in the clinch. For the life of me I can't remember anyone ever doing this to Bendo before.


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## Andrus (Oct 18, 2011)

Even though usually i root for Bendo, this time I thought that Thompson won, and then came the decision. Can't see how two of the judges go split and then the 3rd one gives 4 rounds to Bendo... Were they even watching the same fight?

Thompson looked great in this one, especially that badass takedown.


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## Swp (Jan 2, 2010)

If you think about it was a great fight , a lots of submission attempts , great take downs , take down def , great leg kicks and boxing ... if only Josh wouldnt broke his hand , garante wouldve been an great upset !


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

This is the last time I overlook Thomson before a fight, let me tell you that. IMO the guy beat Bendo and Melendez and finished Nate Diaz. Can't get any more legit top 5 LW if you ask me.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Benson robs yet another fighter blind.

Thomson won that shit.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> This is the last time I overlook Thomson before a fight, let me tell you that. IMO the guy beat Bendo and Melendez and finished Nate Diaz. Can't get any more legit top 5 LW if you ask me.


It sucks for him as he can't seem to catch a break and he's going to be 36 soon:sad02:


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## Shoegazer (Jun 23, 2007)

Wow, I'm surprised to see so many people thought Josh won. Guess I need to rewatch...

My score: 49-47 Bendo, with Josh taking rd 1 and a 10-10 rd 2. 

My impressions: shocking to see Bendo get thrown around like that, and I suspect Josh would have won without the injury. But I thought Bendo won rounds 3-5.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

I think it was draw.
r1-Josh
r2-draw
r3-Ben
r4-Josh
r5-Ben

I'm also amazed at how strong and big Josh is.
And i'm pretty confident he would take it if not for the broken hand.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Josh whooped Bendo without throwing any punches.... A healthy Josh would mangle Benson.


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## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

I thought that was a pretty clear win for Josh, having won 4 rounds. A two handed Josh would wreck Benson I reckon.


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## GDPofDRB (Apr 18, 2013)

Hawndo said:


> I thought that was a pretty clear win for Josh, having won 4 rounds. A two handed Josh would wreck Benson I reckon.


To be fair, a significantly large majority of people who watched the fight agree with you on the winner despite what some are calling a close fight: http://mmadecisions.com/decision/4844/Benson-Henderson-vs-Josh-Thomson



sucrets said:


> Than.
> 
> And no, he is not.


Oh grammar nazi's are cool again? good for you, good for you.

If you watched the fight last night, you _should _know, Josh is better then Henderson.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

John8204 said:


> 50-45 Henderson



John... if that really was your score.... i think you need to reevaluate how you are scoring fights. There is not anyway i can see Henderson winning every round.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Joabbuac said:


> John... if that really was your score.... i think you need to reevaluate how you are scoring fights. There is not anyway i can see Henderson winning every round.


I can see giving 1 and 4 to Thomson, I did on first viewing but on second viewing...nah Benson shut him out.

People are giving Josh all these rounds but for what...a slight advantage in takedowns, back mount without control, and borderline illegal spike?

Defensively Thomson was good but offensively he really didn't do much of anything.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Roki977 said:


> Every time Rogan is routing like that I have a feeling that he knows something that we dont.


Just a guess but what the fight looks like from cage side would be my thought..


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## Shoegazer (Jun 23, 2007)

Ok, upon re-watch, it was slightly closer, but still for Bendo. I could see all three judges' scores being realistic, depending on where one stands in the old "position vs. damage" debate, honestly. 

Rd 1: Josh gets the surprising takedown and body triangle and controls Bendo for a significant portion of the round. However, Bendo’s defense is solid and Josh does zero damage and does not ever actually threaten with a submission. Bendo gets a takedown, also inflicts no damage, but locks on a serious standing arm triangle. The round ends with Josh tossing Bendo on his head. This round was closer on replay than live.
*10-9 Slightly for Thomson for longer control, and the takedowns.*

Rd 2: Bendo lands sparsley in the first portions of the round. Josh clinches him and takes him down and very briefly takes his back before Bendo stands up. Towards the end, they exchange leg kicks and punches, with Josh perhaps getting the better shots in overall – but it’s a negligible edge to me, certainly nothing to steal a round with.
*10-10 tie (Thomson 20, Henderson 19) No damage on takedowns, no subs, and roughly equal striking. No clear winner for me, but would give it to Thomson if I had to.*

Rd 3: Bendo comes out firing and landing. A few scramble are largely inconclusive, though Bendo gets a few rabbit punches in. Josh has his back briefly. Bendo lands more overall.
*10-9 Henderson (Thomson 29, Henderson 29) Bendo is clearly more aggressive, lands more strikes, slightly outgrapples Thompson.*

Rd 4: Both land some kicks, but Bendo’s are harder. Josh’s takedown is nice, but the punches he lands on Bendo are a wash compared to Bendo’s strikes from the bottom. Bendo returns a takedown with some largely insignificant, but unanswered offense and then lands several unanswered knees and an elbow against the fence. Some striking trades towards the end are equal before Josh gets a couple takedowns and ends the round with a couple ineffectual punches.
*10-10 tie (Thomson 39, Henderson 39) Henderson lands more, with a few harder strikes, but Thomson outgrapples and controls a little longer. No clear winner for me, but would give it to Henderson if I had to.*

Rd 5: The standup is close. Bendo lands harder knees and kicks, Josh lands more kicks and a couple clean punches and the trip/kick. After that, Bendo throws several kicks, most of which are blocked, but Josh isn’t really doing anything in return before he lets a little flurry of punches go. Josh catches a kick and throws Bendo down, briefly getting his back, but Bendo is no danger. A few knees in the clinch along the fence for both…Bendo gets slightly better strikes in.
*10-9 Henderson (Henderson 49, Thomson 48) Henderson with slightly more, slightly harder strikes. * 

No doubt in my mind that Josh wins without the broken thumb.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

^^^^ This avatar of your is the reason GSP retired from MMA. :laugh:


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## dvonfunk (Oct 31, 2007)

Great fight. Very entertaining, I thought. I have a ton of respect for Josh after that one, although I do think that hand injury affected him not only physically, but mentally (how could it not). It seemed like his fire died down after the injury and he was fighting to survive as opposed to fighting to win, at that point. You have to think a two-handed Thomson wins that one. I'm surprised he didn't lean more heavily on his kicks. He must have been really worried about Bendo's TDs.

That being said, he out-grappled Bendo with one hand which is a real testament to his ground game. I thought for sure Bendo would have a significant strength advantage, and Thomson nullified it for the most part. 

The fight really could've went either way, but I expected Bendo to get the nod in the end. The heart said Thomson, but the head said Bendo. I'll have to watch that one again. Josh just didn't mount any semblance of significant offense on the feet, and although Bendo also did very little, he did more there with a few well-timed knees and hooks to the body. 

I just couldn't understand how mid-way through the final round Rogan was playing it off like Bendo had already secured the fight, and really made it seem like Thomson needed to finish the fight in order to win. That was really strange to me.

On a somewhat related note, is it just me, or should Bendo's opponents really try to emphasize attacking those tree trunk legs of his? I get that the fear of the TD is very real against him, but it seems to me that so much of his strength and offense is derived from his legs and if you can take some serious steam out of them, your chances of beating him skyrocket. Just an observation. Of all his fights in the UFC I can't distinctly recall any of his opponents really make it a point to target his legs with kicks or knees, probably due to fear of the takedown. But high risk, high reward, I say.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Thomson didn't inflict any damage throughout the entire fight. Throughout five rounds, 25 minutes of action, he landed NOTHING. He scored some take downs and got a body lock a few times, which amounted to NOTHING. No damage what so ever inflicted.

The emphasis of a fight should be DAMAGE and finishing a fight, neither of which Thomson ever came close to.

Bendo, whilst not doing much damage himself, at least inflicted some, in the form of body kicks, leg kicks, knees and a few nice body shot punches. Thomson landed nothing.

Bendo won through actually scoring solid hits and doing damage.

Another snoozefest from Thomson. He plays Carlos Condit with Nate Diaz for the majority of the fight, gets Nate frustrated and completely surprised hium with a powerful head kick. I'm not impressed with this guy over all. I look forward to Kawajiri blanketing him for a good 15 minutes in the near future again.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Thomson didn't inflict any damage throughout the entire fight. Throughout five rounds, 25 minutes of action, he landed NOTHING. He scored some take downs and got a body lock a few times, which amounted to NOTHING.


That's why I thought Bendo won. Even when Josh got Bendo's back + locked in a body triangle, he didn't do a single thing with it. It was almost like lay-n-pray.

I like both guys equally, and didn't see a robbery here at all.










That's not close enough to be a robbery, even taking FM with a lot of grains of salt.


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## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

Woodenhead said:


> That's why I thought Bendo won. Even when Josh got Bendo's back + locked in a body triangle, he didn't do a single thing with it. It was almost like lay-n-pray.


This. For all those fans who complain about fighters laying in the guard & doing nothing, yet still getting the scoring advantage, Thomson's body triangle should be viewed in the same light. It's like "congrats you got there, now what?".


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## dvonfunk (Oct 31, 2007)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> T*he emphasis of a fight should be DAMAGE* and finishing a fight, neither of which Thomson ever came close to.


This is a contentious statement because scoring is (unfortunately) still so subjective. Each judge sees a fight in his/her own way and as a result, we regularly see unpredictable (some might say, unfathomable) scores. I'm not saying that was the case in this fight in particular, because I do agree with you, Thomson inflicted little to no damage the entire fight. Hence, Bendo wins a decision. 

All that being said, your claim that "the emphasis of a fight SHOULD be damage," is your own opinion, and an opinion shared by many others, including some judges, I'm sure. However, the 10-point must system and the subjective nature of MMA scoring doesn't allow for judging to be that cut and dry. If it was, and damage was always the most important aspect in scoring a fight, judging would be so much easier and we'd be seeing a lot less of these controversial decisions.

The current scoring system we have is a broken system, but it's all we've got at the moment.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Yeah, "damage" isn't exactly simple to judge, anyway. Some guys mark up/bleed easier than others, some guys walk thru killer shots... I just don't think "damage" is as clear-cut a criteria as some think it is. It would still need to be quantified - how would you guys quantify it fairly?


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

TheAuger said:


> This. For all those fans who complain about fighters *laying in the guard* & doing nothing, yet still getting the scoring advantage, *Thomson's body triangle should be viewed in the same light.* It's like "congrats you got there, now what?".


Come on, you really can't compare someone falling into somebody's guard, which is basically a default position pulled by who ended on its back with someone *working its way* to take somebody's back, several times and locking the position for a good while.

Josh tried to finish, Bendo defended well, but laying in a guard is in no way shape or form comparable to take somebody's back, specially a strong grappler like Bendo.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

John8204 said:


> People are giving Josh all these rounds but for what...a slight advantage in takedowns, back mount without control, and borderline illegal spike?


As apposed to not much at all from Henderson? Yea Thomspon gets it for the slams, takedowns and control.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Joabbuac said:


> As apposed to not much at all from Henderson? Yea Thomspon gets it for the slams, takedowns and control.


Henderson outstruck Thomson 3-1, landed many of his own takedowns, and got an actual submission off as opposed to Josh who was just in position and failed to do so. He had one illegal slam at the end of the first. Finally "control", how many times did Henderson get up? Henderson scored more with Thomson on top in his guard than Josh did with all that back control.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

*One's POV metamorphosis into "the truth".*



John8204 said:


> ...you *could* deduct a point for it being an illegal head spike.





John8204 said:


> What * I think makes it questionable* is Thomson's control of Henderson's body, and that Henderson was able to get his hands up but clearly Thomson drops and drives him into the canvas.





John8204 said:


> People are giving Josh all these rounds but for what...a slight advantage in takedowns, back mount without control, and *borderline illegal* spike?





John8204 said:


> * He had one illegal slam* at the end of the first.


One's *perception* of a *suspect move* that runs through the nuances of "could", "I think", "questionable", "borderline" and finally becomes a "proper factual illegal slam" on the last sentence.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

AmdM said:


> I think it was draw.
> r1-Josh
> r2-draw
> r3-Ben
> ...


I had it,

r1-Josh
r2-10-10
r3-Ben
r4-Josh
r5-Josh


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

I was really surprised to see that this is considered a controversial decision.

Henderson had a huge edge in strikes, regardless of whether you're looking for effectiveness or efficiency, in almost every round from stand-up, the clinch and the ground.

The weight of grappling is less than striking in rounds that were less affected by grappling than striking. Round 1 might be the only one that didn't meet that definition.


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