# ***OFFICIAL*** BJ Penn vs Frankie Edgar Pre/Post Fight spoilers



## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

*Please conduct ALL of your discussion in regards to Frankie 'The Answer' Edgar defending against BJ 'the Prodigy' Penn at UFC 118 in this thread. All threads made in regards to this fight will be merged into this one.*​


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## BigSur (Aug 13, 2010)

If BJ Penn brings his A game than Edgar doesn't have a chance. I'm picturing an angry Penn who is going for a KO/Submission by any means.


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## the ultimate (Mar 5, 2007)

Come on Frankie. Prove everyone wrong, again!

I think he can do it. He is arguably faster than Penn and can stand with him. If he can avoid BJ using his strength and dominating the fight, he can do it.

He also proved that he can take Penn down in Abu Dhabi. He did it twice and if he does that again, he could steal rounds.

I'm going for a Frankie Edgar Split Decision. Wouldn't be surprised to see BJ smash him but I think Edgar's still being underrated and he's the UFC Lightweight Champion.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

I'm thinking we're going to see the BJ Penn that Sean Sherk fought. Good luck Frankie though.


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## KEYZER-SOZE (Jul 31, 2010)

BigSur said:


> If BJ Penn brings his A game than Edgar doesn't have a chance. I'm picturing an angry Penn who is going for a KO/Submission by any means.



bj is definetely going to do just that hes going to put on a clinic against frankie. nothing worse to fight than a motivated bj :thumbsup:


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

KEYZER-SOZE said:


> bj is definetely going to do just that hes going to put on a clinic against frankie. nothing worse to fight than a motivated bj :thumbsup:


Unless you're GSP.....sorry I had to.


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## recanizegame (Dec 14, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> Unless you're* a greased* GSP.....*sorry I had to.*


I fixed it for you


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## KEYZER-SOZE (Jul 31, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> Unless you're GSP.....sorry I had to.


:thumb02::thumb02: couldnt help your self huh??


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

I love all this motivated BJ is scary. Frankie is motivated as hell because no one is giving him respect for taking that title away. It is going to be a good fight but by no means is it going to be a blow out. Edgar is faster and can take down BJ which really gets into BJ's head IMO. I can not wait for this night.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

recanizegame said:


> I fixed it for you


Okay, cry some more your boy got beat twice by GSP.



KEYZER-SOZE said:


> :thumb02::thumb02: couldnt help your self huh??


Sorry haha, it's just too easy. If the words "To the death Georges" had never come out of his mouth, I wouldn't do it, but they did so yeah....I actually like BJ it's just easy t mock him sometimes.


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

Fingers crossed for Frankie Edgar.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

BJ will be getting his belt back and possibly in vicious style.


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## KEYZER-SOZE (Jul 31, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> Sorry haha, it's just too easy. If the words "To the death Georges" had never come out of his mouth, I wouldn't do it, but they did so yeah....I actually like BJ it's just easy t mock him sometimes.


it was pretty funny i gotta admit i even tried throwing some rep your way


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

I love the "where's Frankies respect?" posts, he'll get my respect if he BEATS BJ, not handed the title, watch that fight again, frank's best shots werent half as hard as BJs simple hooks, also 50-45... had tooo


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

If BJ is the knockout or submission king, he should prove it this time instead of waiting to be back in Hawaii for the trash talk. He seems to do that every loss.

The ONE thing I don't understand, is why people disrespect Frankie for winning, and not BJ for not doing ANYTHING to win.BJ couldn't deal with the speed in the last 2 rounds, and was unable to do anything at all for that time. Haters ignore this. 

I'm not even anti-BJ, just more-so the fans who will disrespect any fighter who dares to get in the cage with him..... even if that fighter already did, and came out unscathed.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

I actually give Frankie huge respect for going 5 rounds with Penn, and was disapointed in Penns performance. I just don't feel Frankie did win, and was shocked at the decision. 

I like Frankie as well, and will give him nothing but props if he beat BJ again. Although I hope, and think, that this time around, Penn will not leave any questions around, and will prove everyone who doubted him wrong.

I can't really understand people hating on Frankie either, he went in there, executed his game plan and it worked for him. He seems a decent humble guy as well. I won't ever hate a fighter simply because he beats my favourite fighter (well... after a few days that hate will fade anyways  )


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## Shoegazer (Jun 23, 2007)

Yeah, I thought BJ won the first fight too but I don't hate Edgar for making it close. 

I'd like to think BJ comes in and dominates, and I know he could if he actually went for takedowns anymore...but he's fallen in love with his boxing and become too one-dimensional. Frankie was fast enough to put it in doubt the first time around. We'll see if BJ is still stagnating.


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

I love how this thread has like 3 less pages than the co-main event thread. 
Anyways, war frankie! I hate how nobody is giving him respect and i will always support my wrestlers.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

I'm pulling for Edgar again. I called it with my friends last tim, and though it would be stupid to underestimate Penn in this rematch, I don't think the first fight was a fluke or a bad decision.

I truly feel that bj penn's weakness is still his cardio, gsp exploited him with that devestating pace; while florian and sanchez gave bj time to rest because, well...they weren't gsp!

I think the key to beating Penn is to make him fight at your pace, and Frankie has just the style to do that. His only problem is thati doubt he had the power to rock pen, much less finish him. And the longer you're in the cage with the prodigy, the more dangerous it is.

Here's to a good fight.


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## Wombatsu (Jul 10, 2006)

i love both guys but i think it depends who executes the plan better wins. BJ should IMO try to take the fight to the ground in round 2 - 3 thats his best chance to finish other than if his hands land Frankie is in trouble. I dont feel BJ was himself in that fight and the scoreline was a joke. After the Machida/Shogun 1 fight i thought you had to BEAT the champ not dance around the champ, but hey.

Frankie is super fast so BJ might find it more difficult to land the hands so i say submission is the best chance to win for him. Edgar on the other hand, well he wont submit and KO BJ, so i guess he has to outwork him and use his cardio to pull out a decision, which is possible.

Good luck to both but as a betting man id say BJ by the end of the third to win.


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## suffersystem (Feb 4, 2007)

I'll be rooting for Frankie come this fight, although I know BJ will be as dangerous as always.


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## tap nap or snap (Jan 28, 2009)

personally i could flip a coin on who won the 1st fight, i think frankie's takedowns probably gave him an edge with the judges, but i don't think he did much them. this time around if we get the BJ that's an full MMA artist and not a MMA for defense but boxing for offense artist I think penn will win. other wise i will be another coin flip (I think frankie can only outwork penn, can't see him ko'ing or subbing penn)


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## R3353 (Aug 10, 2009)

If BJ is as motivated as he appears to be i think he could walk through Frankie this time, I think he is unstoppable when he is motivated at LW. I sometimes get the impression that he can say he is all motivated and hungry when he really is not though. 

This time though i think he really wants that belt back and is going to make it messy and finish the fight.


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## FLyMiSeZz (May 10, 2010)

*Edgar!!*

It's Edgar's time to shine people. He won that belt because he deserved it!! Now he's going to prove that belt needs to stay around his waist. He won't let it go to decision this time. Every great fighter's shine time has to come to an end and this seems to be the year for it! i.e., Fedor, Machida. That belt is Edgar's!!!


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Edgar has a great shot at winning. Edgar is still going to be much faster than Penn and he has the better wrestling out of the two. Speed was Penn's downfall in that fight. Penn has more power, but Edgar proved that he can stay out of trouble standing, and take Penn down.


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## FLyMiSeZz (May 10, 2010)

I agree 100%. Could not have said it better nmyself, HITOR


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

Yeah, I dunno... 
It seems to me that Edgar's 'key to victory' was revealed that day... but after that display, I dont think he can repeat it.

BJ, on the other hand, got to see what Edgar can do... and can train to compensate... if theres one think BJ can do is learn fast.

What can Edgar bring to the table that would be unexpected this time around that would make him successful? ...yeah, thats my problem...

IMHO, BJ adjusts to Edgars quickness... and Edgar attempt to repeat his performance and fails... BJ takes this one in my book.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

BJ can try and adjust to Edgar's speed, but it won't change the fact that Edgar is still going to be the faster fighter. Edgar also showed that he can take Penn down so if he can mix takedowns into the equation, it could throw Penn off.

The question is, can Edgar take Penn down without being submitted.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Why does BJ's fights always get overshadowed...lolz. He soundly beats Kenny Florian, but gets overshadowed by Anderson Silva's exhibition match against Griffin. Again at Abu Dhabi and now with the Couture and Toney fight.


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## glowboxboy (Feb 25, 2009)

Even if Penn comes into the fight in great condition like we are all expecting Frankie still has a speed advantage.The same gameplan as last time is his only chance even though BJ has been preparing for that style of fight.I am taking Penn in this fight, but I hope he mixes things up and fights smart because Edgar will not stand in front of him, and frankly I would not be shocked if he outpointed him, but picking Penn by submission this time round.
Funny how certain people on these boards and other mma message boards tried to make a case for BJ winning the first fight.There was no doubt about who won the first fight


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## Jmac91 (Jun 17, 2009)

Frankie Edgar by Unanimous Decision.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

I'm already getting butterfly's when I think about this fight.


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## Jmac91 (Jun 17, 2009)

BJ is going to have his hands full. Frankie out trains everyone in mma and is going to have his way with lazy ass Penn. Let's go Frankie make NJ and Rutgers wrestling proud again.

BJ Penn fans are the most obnoxious and ignorant "things", they are almost as bad as Fedor fans. They are usually the meatheads who have no clue what goes into a fight. The training, the preparation, the mental readiness. They pick Penn to win every fight solely on his talent alone, and his name. I guarantee you that Frankie outworked Penn and win or lose this will not be an easy fight for BJ like some predict.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Jmac91 said:


> BJ is going to have his hands full. Frankie out trains everyone in mma and is going to have his way with lazy ass Penn. Let's go Frankie make NJ and Rutgers wrestling proud again.
> 
> BJ Penn fans are the most obnoxious and ignorant "things", they are almost as bad as Fedor fans. They are usually the meatheads who have no clue what goes into a fight. The training, the preparation, the mental readiness. They pick Penn to win every fight solely on his talent alone, and his name. I guarantee you that Frankie outworked Penn and win or lose this will not be an easy fight for BJ like some predict.


How about you don't lump everyone into one big generalisation? That's a very obnoxious view to have. So because I am a fan of a specific fighter, you can automatically say I'm a meathead that doesn't know what preparation fighters go through? Please explain how that works.

You don't like BJ Penn? Fine, you're entitled to your opinion. But don't drag me and other well spoken, knowledgable Penn and Fedor fans we have on this forum into your view of what a BJ Penn fan is like.


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## Jmac91 (Jun 17, 2009)

KryOnicle said:


> How about you don't lump everyone into one big generalisation? That's a very obnoxious view to have. So because I am a fan of a specific fighter, you can automatically say I'm a meathead that doesn't know what preparation fighters go through? Please explain how that works.
> 
> You don't like BJ Penn? Fine, you're entitled to your opinion. But don't drag me and other well spoken, knowledgable Penn and Fedor fans we have on this forum into your view of what a BJ Penn fan is like.


My bad man. I'm getting tired of the excuses from the so called prodigy's fans. For the most part, Penn fans talk shit plain and simple. All I hear is Edgar got lucky, Penn by knockout easily, and this time we will see the real Penn. How many times have we heard "the real Penn." Honestly, what the **** is that supposed to mean. You have to bring it every fight. Yet he calls himself a soul fighter and not an athlete. Penn is an arrogant prick, and he's fighting one of the most humble down to earth guys there is. It boggles my mind how people root for BJ and not a real professional like Frankie.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

The reasons I am a Penn fan is, yes he talks alot of shit, but he can back it up. He also for the most part only talks shit to hype the fight up. In his most recent interview with Ariel he is extremely humble and respectful to Edgar, as he was during their first fight.

He said Edgar had a great fight and he learned some new things from Edgar. BJ does have a humble side.

He's also extremely talented, his BJJ, TDD and standup are phenomenal and I just love watching him fight. I do admit I get very dissapointed when he doesn't give it his all, it hurts as a fan of his to not watch him perform to his true potential.

I'm on of those guys that think Penn will get the finish in this fight, but I do not for a second think it will be easy for him. I like Edgar, he's a great fighter who is always humble and respectful. He had a gameplan for BJ, stuck to it and got the win. Whilst I hated watching my favourite fighter get beat (I did however score it 3 round to 2 in favour of BJ) I was impressed with Frankie.

You can lump any fighters fans into one catagory, doesn't make it so.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

Jmac91 said:


> ...
> Yet he calls himself a soul fighter and not an athlete. *Penn is an arrogant prick*, and he's fighting one of the most humble down to earth guys there is.
> ...


Ugh, BJ loves being the bad guy... he loves being controversial... its part of the deal when you want to remain a headliner and sell tickets.

The fact is, BJ *CAN* and *HAS* backed up his smacktalk... sure he has eaten crow ... but the fact is, he hypes up fights and gets/keeps your interest... The fact that you actually hate the guy means that he's won 

I could give a crap about what fighters yammer on about before/after the bell... all that matters is what happens in the cage.



Jmac91 said:


> ...
> _It boggles my mind how people root for BJ_ and not a real professional like Frankie.


Heh... that statement is hilarious 

Not even going to respond to it :sarcastic12:


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## Jmac91 (Jun 17, 2009)

attention said:


> Ugh, BJ loves being the bad guy... he loves being controversial... its part of the deal when you want to remain a headliner and sell tickets.
> 
> The fact is, BJ *CAN* and *HAS* backed up his smacktalk... sure he has eaten crow ... but the fact is, he hypes up fights and gets/keeps your interest... The fact that you actually hate the guy means that he's won
> 
> ...


I have worked out with Frankie. He is a part time assistant for Rutgers wrestling. There is nothing wrong with the statement. Frankie is more of a professional then BJ will ever be. There is no excuse for not training and coming into fights out of shape or being lackadaisical. Frankie trains like a mad man and deserves everything he achieves, the guy usually works out 3 times a day and pushes the pace in every practice. I guess it's a mentality that only wrestlers seem to have these days. Either way Frankie is a great guy and a humble champion. He doesn't need to stoop to BJ's level and talk trash.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

Jmac91 said:


> I have worked out with Frankie. He is a part time assistant for Rutgers wrestling. There is nothing wrong with the statement. Frankie is more of a professional then BJ will ever be. There is no excuse for not training and coming into fights out of shape or being lackadaisical. Frankie trains like a mad man and deserves everything he achieves, the guy usually works out 3 times a day and pushes the pace in every practice. I guess it's a mentality that only wrestlers seem to have these days. Either way Frankie is a great guy and a humble champion. He doesn't need to stoop to BJ's level and talk trash.


Heh, so the fact that you have worked out with Frankie makes you a perfect judge of character of BJ ? (WTF?)

Dude, go workout with BJ and then post again.

Im not taking anything away from you for vouching for Frankies work ethic... Im not disputing that in any way/shape/form... I dont doubt that hes the most dedicated mma fighter in the entire WORLD.

But you pass judgment on BJ's talent/skill/experience as if he's accomplished nothing compared to Edgar... yeesh. :confused03:


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## cisco2403 (Apr 12, 2010)

Jmac91 said:


> BJ is going to have his hands full. Frankie out trains everyone in mma and is going to have his way with lazy ass Penn. Let's go Frankie make NJ and Rutgers wrestling proud again.
> 
> BJ Penn fans are the most obnoxious and ignorant "things", they are almost as bad as Fedor fans. They are usually the meatheads who have no clue what goes into a fight. The training, the preparation, the mental readiness. They pick Penn to win every fight solely on his talent alone, and his name. I guarantee you that Frankie outworked Penn and win or lose this will not be an easy fight for BJ like some predict.


Not sure how you would know that Frankie out trains everyone in MMA. I can't speak for any fighter but it seems GSP is a pretty dedicated one himself. 

Also, lumping in all BJ Penn fans as obnoxious, ignorant and all meatheads is going a little too far there don't you think? Also, what is wrong with picking BJ to win on talent? If he didn't have it and was just a hard-worker, I would doubt he would be as successful. I'm pretty sure mostly everyone in the UFC is a hard worker; it's the talent that will get them further.


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## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

Im taking BJ in this one.. He will finish the fight.


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## lvkyle (Sep 7, 2008)

BJ by 1st round helicopter kick to the face!

No really. Frankie is tough as nails, and he is able to fight at 100 MPH all fight long.

For BJ to win, he needs to go on the attack, and I think he will.

I think Frankie will come in well prepared, and have counters for everything, but I just some how foresee BJ connecting with hard strikes in this fight, I still have nightmares from what he did to diegos face.


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## Guymay (Jul 6, 2009)

BJ looked the worse i've seen him at ufc 112 (as LW) and still i thought he won the fight . if BJ coming into this fight ready i don't see how he can lose .


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## cisco2403 (Apr 12, 2010)

Guymay said:


> BJ looked the worse i've seen him at ufc 112 (as LW) and still i thought he won the fight . if BJ coming into this fight ready i don't see how he can lose .


As far as physical condition goes, he looks the same to me. Although, his facial expressions shows that he's much more confident. At 112, he looked like he justed wanted to go home. At the weigh-ins yesterday, he looked determined, like he is going to bust Edgar up badly.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

im taking bj, and i think he'll stop frankie at some point. probably by tko due to strikes.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

*One more time Frankie!!!*

Frankie deserves more respect and support than he is getting. 

Tonight, win or lose, Frankie is going to prove he is right where he belongs, with the best LWs in the world, and he is a true FW. Remarkable kid and i wish him the best!!

War Edgar!!!


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## Drowning Donkey (Dec 11, 2009)

Well Bj is my favorite fighter of all time but I got no problem accepting the fact that Edgar was the better fighter last time they met. 

Bj was nothing like himself in that fight though. But yes, Frankie made it very clear that his shot at the title was very well deserved and he fought a great fight.

So...yes huge props and respect for Frankie....








...but.... WAR BJ PENN !!!


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

I agree. Edgar hasn't got the respect he deserves. 
I scored the first fight 48-47 Penn, but i though Frankie fought a good fight and is definitely a top 5 LW.
I'll be supporting him tonight!


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

I think the problem with Frankie is that he has nothing about him that appeals to the fans. He's not much of a character, he's just "that kid from NJ".

Good fighter, but no star appeal about the guy.


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

The Lone Wolf said:


> I think the problem with Frankie is that he has nothing about him that appeals to the fans. He's not much of a character, he's just "that kid from NJ".
> 
> Good fighter, but no star appeal about the guy.


lol i agree theres no uniqueness in his personality and character, hes just to average to stay the champ haha, Brock, Shogun, Anderson and GSP are uniqe specimens but then theres this dude named Frankie Edgar and ppl are like wtf no disrespect to him though if he beats BJ again then he really is THAT good.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

No, Frankie is really getting no respect from anyone in the MMA world for his prior performance against Penn. I keep hearing the words "Contraversial Decision" thrown around like it wasn't terribly obvious that Frankie won that fight. I keep hearing people saying that judges overlooked Penn's counter striking and overrated Frankie bouncing around. Well guess ******* what, BJ, counter punching is NOT a solid strategy when you get hit two to three times as much as you're putting out. 

Sorry but the entire fact that the UFC LW champion is getting called a fluke after winning a DECISION is horseshit and it makes me fuming mad. I could see if Frankie caught BJ early and KO'd him (Ala Serra vs GSP), but he beat him at LEAST 3 out of 5 rounds. He never looked like he was in trouble, he was always the one coming forward, he implemented HIS gameplan over BJ to the T and he won. He defeated one of the greatest Light Weights in HISTORY and he did it cleanly, regardless of what shitdog says about it.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Tra, tell us how you really feel? 

Frankie is the man, he put on a show last time, but he'll be facing a mean and nasty Penn that wants his belt back. I think Frankie will be in a bit of a shock when he finds out exactly how good Penn really is.

Frankie is definitely one of the top LW's in the world, though, no one can question that with his resume.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah a BJ at his best is a scary thing!:confused05:


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## SlowGraffiti (Dec 29, 2007)

I agree with Tra. People are letting their rationality be clouded by their blind love for BJ.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

TraMaI said:


> No, Frankie is really getting no respect from anyone in the MMA world for his prior performance against Penn. I keep hearing the words "Contraversial Decision" thrown around like it wasn't terribly obvious that Frankie won that fight. I keep hearing people saying that judges overlooked Penn's counter striking and overrated Frankie bouncing around. Well guess ******* what, BJ, counter punching is NOT a solid strategy when you get hit two to three times as much as you're putting out.
> 
> Sorry but the entire fact that the UFC LW champion is getting called a fluke after winning a DECISION is horseshit and it makes me fuming mad. I could see if Frankie caught BJ early and KO'd him (Ala Serra vs GSP), but he beat him at LEAST 3 out of 5 rounds. He never looked like he was in trouble, he was always the one coming forward, he implemented HIS gameplan over BJ to the T and he won. He defeated one of the greatest Light Weights in HISTORY and he did it cleanly, regardless of what shitdog says about it.


Usually when a fight goes to the judges, its down to opinion. Its subjective who won that fight. Personally i'd have given the nod to Penn, but i can see why Edgar got the W. I cant see how Edgar got a 50 - 45 scoreline, but thats straying from the point.

Edgar gets alot of negativity because alot of people feel like Penn won that fight, and some of those who think Edgar won also think that Penn was not himself that night. I think people see him as a stand-in champ until the end of the bout this evening. Its hard for Frankie because he has to win tonight to gain the respect of the majority of fans. If he loses, his prior victory will go down as BJ beating himself rather than Edgar beating him.

Its nothing to get worked up over though


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## sprawlbrawl (Apr 28, 2008)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> Frankie deserves more respect and support than he is getting.
> 
> Tonight, win or lose, Frankie is going to prove he is right where he belongs, with the best LWs in the world, and he is a true FW. Remarkable kid and i wish him the best!!
> 
> War Edgar!!!


me to come edgar i used to love penn but he reminds me of a winny 12 year old. Gets on my nerves:sarcastic12:


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

edlavis88 said:


> I agree. Edgar hasn't got the respect he deserves.
> I scored the first fight 48-47 Penn, but i though Frankie fought a good fight and is definitely a top 5 LW.
> I'll be supporting him tonight!




I might as well Copy and Paste this because this is also my exact thoughts


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well I personally think the last fight went for BJ, but like I've said before it was a close match!


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

I agree with the "no character thing", and it just seems even more genius that the only co main event to over shadow a title fight is on a night with "that guy from jersey" as the champ trying to get his first legitimate win vs. BJ Penn. Joe Silva is the best at what he does.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Syxx Paq said:


> I agree with the "no character thing", and it just seems even more genius that the only co main event to over shadow a title fight is on a night with "that guy from jersey" as the champ trying to get his first legitimate win vs. BJ Penn. Joe Silva is the best at what he does.


I don't think people truly realize some of the genius fights he sets up. Especially with all the fighters constantly changing weight classes and new comers constantly coming in...

The man is a genius


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

I gotta go with the underrated kid from Jersey. I like everything about Frankie, i like how he uses his speed, boxing and wrestling and i like his humble attitude.

MMA is more than just a sport to me, its a lifestyle, i always gravitate towards the more respectful, humble and hard working fighters and Frankie fits that description to a T.

I thought he won the 1st fight and i dont see a reason to change the gameplan for this one. Force BJ to do something different and adjust from there. I think BJ will find that taking down Frankie is alot harder than he thinks. The standup should be great especially if BJ is going to try and catch Frankie more coming in this time. Should be a great one!!


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

The Lone Wolf said:


> Usually when a fight goes to the judges, its down to opinion. Its subjective who won that fight. Personally i'd have given the nod to Penn, but i can see why Edgar got the W. I cant see how Edgar got a 50 - 45 scoreline, but thats straying from the point.
> 
> Edgar gets alot of negativity because alot of people feel like Penn won that fight, and some of those who think Edgar won also think that Penn was not himself that night. I think people see him as a stand-in champ until the end of the bout this evening. Its hard for Frankie because he has to win tonight to gain the respect of the majority of fans. If he loses, his prior victory will go down as BJ beating himself rather than Edgar beating him.
> 
> Its nothing to get worked up over though


Totally agree with you on the 50-45 score, I don't think he won all 5 and I think that's the ONLY controversial part of the fight. He won 3 at the least, possibly 4, but he won 3 cleanly. I honestly do NOT see where everyone is getting that it was both a close match and/or that BJ won, honestly. Maybe I'll go back and rewatch it tonight or something. I just don't see any way that Penn won that fight in any way. He won a round, probably two, but I CLEARLY remember three rounds I give to Frank hands down. I was kind of astounded at the amount of fans saying it was a BS decision and stuff. Even now seeing the big MMA sites saying the last fight was "controversial" in any way kind of aggravates me because I just cannot see how it could/would be contested in any way. In the fight I saw, BJ counter punched well for the first round and a half, then Frankie ran all over him, peppering him with punches, cutting angles, using his footwork and movement to get in and out and even landing a couple take downs while BJ just stood there and took the most of it and looked to have no answer aside from landing the occasional jab counter, which IMO shouldn't count for much anyways. It's not a counter punch when you eat a punch to throw it. 

As far as the Judges Decision being based on opinion, that's only a half-truth. While the decision is based on an opinion, that opinion is based on laid out guidelines, rules and judging criteria. It's open to interpretation but only to an extent.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

TraMaI said:


> As far as the Judges Decision being based on opinion, that's only a half-truth. While the decision is based on an opinion, that opinion is based on laid out guidelines, rules and judging criteria. It's open to interpretation but only to an extent.


Sorry, i should have made myself clearer - I was referring to the fans verdict on the fight. Alot of fans score fights in completely different ways. Hell, there was even a discussion on where you focus your attention when watching a fight? Fighter A, Fighter B, switch between the two? Theres so many more variables for fans "scoring" a fight than the judges, its inevitable theres going to be lots of people disagreeing with the outcome.


----------



## War (Feb 28, 2007)

I put the money on Edgar. I don't feel the last fight was a fluke at all and feel that he can easily prove it tonight. 

I just worry if BJ begins shooting and taking it to the ground.


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

BJ, maybe a TKO.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> No, Frankie is really getting no respect from anyone in the MMA world for his prior performance against Penn. I keep hearing the words "Contraversial Decision" thrown around like it wasn't terribly obvious that Frankie won that fight. I keep hearing people saying that judges overlooked Penn's counter striking and overrated Frankie bouncing around. Well guess ******* what, BJ, counter punching is NOT a solid strategy when you get hit two to three times as much as you're putting out.
> 
> Sorry but the entire fact that the UFC LW champion is getting called a fluke after winning a DECISION is horseshit and it makes me fuming mad. I could see if Frankie caught BJ early and KO'd him (Ala Serra vs GSP), but he beat him at LEAST 3 out of 5 rounds. He never looked like he was in trouble, he was always the one coming forward, he implemented HIS gameplan over BJ to the T and he won. He defeated one of the greatest Light Weights in HISTORY and he did it cleanly, regardless of what shitdog says about it.


Penn landed the better strikes in that fight, I scored the fight for Penn and still think he won. I think the judges scored the fight on a bell curve, the punished BJ cause he looked like he was mailing it in while Frankie far exceeded most peoples expectations (I expected a pretty even fight till BJ KO'd Edgar, obviously the KO never came.). Don't let the fact that Edgar looked incredible while BJ looked off fool you BJ still won that fight.


----------



## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

Bj Penn by total destruction.......I hope.


----------



## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

BJ round 1 RNC.


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well like I said I think it was a close match for Penn!


----------



## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

I've never seen BJ look so... cool..


----------



## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

I bet on BJ, but I would love to lose this one... yeah Bj the celebrating sold the fight to the judges. :confused03:


----------



## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Please let us see a competitive fight, this main card needs it. ray02:


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Ouuuuuu kewl he iz wearin the unlockable black shorts from the v1d30 [email protected]


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

I want to see BJ rock him with the first punch like he did against Diego.


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## Redline7 (Mar 28, 2010)

Penn has a weird look on his face, I'm not sure what it means.


----------



## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

cecil peoples is a judge....::facepalm:


----------



## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

Anyone betting on the streak game on espn? I say this fight doesn't go the distance. BJ by destruction followed by RNC


----------



## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

Please BJ... Please win...


----------



## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

chosenFEW said:


> cecil peoples is a judge....::facepalm:


I just hope Edgar wins another close decision. That will drive BJ crazy


----------



## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Better finish the fight, cause Cecil Peoples is one of the judges again and you know he's gonna screw something up.


----------



## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

OMG!!!

Cecil Peoples is one of the refs...

Be afraid....be very afraid!!!


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

...Penn does not look very interested...


Cecil: "50 - 45"
Judge 2: "dude it was finished in the 2nd"
Cecil: "....... "50 - 44"


----------



## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Nefilim777 said:


> I've never seen BJ look so... cool..


I was thinking the exact same thing. Usually its a cliche to say that but he does look completely cool and relaxed wow.


----------



## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

AmdM said:


> OMG!!!
> 
> Cecil Peoples is one of the refs...
> 
> Be afraid....be very afraid!!!


o god no...............


----------



## Gyser (Oct 13, 2009)

BJ opens up, gets taken down, this should be interesting!


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Two big takedowns from Edgar and a knee. Not really landing anything at all


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

I see passing of the torch happening right in front of our eyes.


----------



## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Holy crap, he picked up Penn and slammed him down!


----------



## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

wow edgar is fast. penn has to get some leg kicks and grappling.


----------



## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Looks like we might get another 50-45 this time by all 3 judges


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

Edgar is all speed but no damage. That's how he wins the fights.


----------



## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

BJ is looking awfully slow...


----------



## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Do you guys realise that even GSP didn't take down Penn this easy at the beginning of the fight?


And if you don't see those punches landing, then you are either watching a stream, or just plain bias.


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I wonder...:confused02:


----------



## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

penn should pull a silva...:confused05:


----------



## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Frank is NOT a good match up for BJ and it'll take a miracle or a big slip up by frankie for penn to win.

Its the truth guys.


----------



## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

BJ looks almost like he's throwing the fight...


----------



## Gonzo (May 19, 2009)

I agree...


----------



## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

penn is getting tooled in the fight so far...


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Frankie is both very impressive and very not impressive at the same time. His takedowns are great, but is he doing anything with them? No. His striking is fast and his footwork is great, but is he doing any damage or even landing most of his strikes? No. Hes clearly just trying to edge out a decision


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## Killerkrack (Sep 24, 2007)

Edgar looks much quicker then Penn but he's such a non finisher. It irritates the hell out of me.


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## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

BJ's already discouraged.


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Wonder what the issue is?


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

shoot penn, please!!!


----------



## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

BJ isn't out of it yet, or giving up. It's just not easy to deal with that type of speed and elusiveness.


----------



## xbrokenshieldx (Mar 5, 2007)

Where the hell is BJ Penn?? This does not look like him at all. He is not the killer he has been in previous fights and is starting to look like the lazy BJ of old.


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

speed kills folks.....


----------



## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> Wonder what the issue is?


I thought ther was some thing wrong as soon as he wanked in the cage. His mind is somewhere else tonight


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Where the hell is BJ Penn? This is not BJ...


----------



## Gyser (Oct 13, 2009)

Even Superman has his kyptonite, this style of Edgars obviously isn't good for BJ.

Probably because its so annoying to watch!


----------



## Gonzo (May 19, 2009)

Sounds like Penn stands NO chance....


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

This is ******* depressing. This is a guy who was supposed to be one of the best ever, now hes acting like a joke


----------



## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

why no leg kicks? why no td attempts? W>>>>T>>>>F?


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Anyone ever think that MAYBE you've just had the wrong opinion on the fight? That's BJ Penn in there all right, a continuation of BJ Penn from the last fight.



He's still not out of it though, any time it goes to the ground BJ can Sub him.


----------



## Killerkrack (Sep 24, 2007)

BJ doesn't even look like he wants to be there at all.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Yes Come On Bj


----------



## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

that look on bjs face says hes given up........


----------



## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

thank god a td!!!!


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

What the hell is going on...


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Slip or rocked?


----------



## smood (Feb 4, 2007)

*Frankie Edgar's family/sister needs to shut up*

Seriously wtf is wrong with Frankie's stupid sister/family screaming like a maniac. Seriously calm down and shut up.


----------



## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

My soul hurts right now.


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Yeah they are as bad as the Florians


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Slip or rocked?


I think it was a leg kick to one legged Penn


----------



## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Why isnt BJ going for any takedowns? He can obviously get them and count towards points. That was his first TD in the 4th round.

BJ lost again...


----------



## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

The rubber guard isn't working, he MUST be greasing.


----------



## smood (Feb 4, 2007)

I wish I could slap her while she was screaming, stupid retard.


----------



## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

This is horrible... BJ has to sub him.


----------



## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

SJ said:


> The rubber guard isn't working, he MUST be greasing.


i almost negged you for that.......:bye02:


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

I think BJ is going to retire after this fight...


----------



## Gonzo (May 19, 2009)

Whats next for Penn if he looses? Guess hell have to fight Florian or Sanchez again...


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

edgar is too fast.... not much damage but as everybody should now by now..... speed kills

remember frank is like a 145er.... he barely cuts i think to get to 155


----------



## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)




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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

Frankie is just a better fighter than BJ.


----------



## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

What the hell was BJ's gameplan? Why didn't they focus on taking down Edgar from the start?


----------



## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

SerJ said:


>


Cause his stand up aint working... can't believe his corner either...


----------



## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Terror Kovenant said:


> I think BJ is going to retire after this fight...


Nah he's going to move up to WW where at the very least he can compete. He can forget about getting another title shot for years after this.


----------



## Gyser (Oct 13, 2009)

Terror Kovenant said:


> I think BJ is going to retire after this fight...


If he loses I wouldn't be suprised.


----------



## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

If Frankie wins he's still going to lose to Maynard.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Awww man Frankie vs Maynard isn't a fight i really care to see.


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## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

Wouldn't surprise me if he calls it quits. He looks uninterested. He did before the fight too. I see a long layoff at least


----------



## smood (Feb 4, 2007)

*Frankie Edgar doesn't impress me*

He is like a hyper little mouse it doesn't seem like he has big talent. It just seems BJ is just sleeping and not really trying.

After Edgar wins whoever faces him next will probably demolish him.

Frankie has a retarded family as well. Man I can hear her now. Shut up frankie's sister or whoever it is.


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## Gonzo (May 19, 2009)

Kind of like Jens Pulver did...


----------



## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

Nefilim777 said:


> Cause his stand up aint working... can't believe his corner either...


That was my bad dude. Didn't mean to quote ya.


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Sadly, BJ Penn's legacy has just died.


----------



## NissanZaxima (Aug 8, 2010)

Edgar vs Maynard

Dancing vs Hugging... which will prevail?


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## halfoiked (Sep 8, 2009)

wow bj penn has horrible cornermen


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

SerJ said:


> That was my bad dude. Didn't mean to quote ya.


No problem brother...
I'm just depressed now... oh BJ


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Looks like Penn didn't learn anything from their first fight.

He can't stand there waiting for Frankie to do something, he'll get out-slicked, everytime.

Unfortunately, Penn's whole style is based on countering people. Letting them make the first move.

He can't do that against Edgar, he needs to press the action and get off first. Its possible his footwork just isn't good enough to get in position against Frankie. Bummer.


----------



## Prolific (May 7, 2009)

Man i kinda agree maynard will lay on him for 5 rounds to take his title. I think the lightweight division is back to that "non Finishing" weight class i really thought bj just had a stupid gameplan.


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

he gave up after the first and it was all edgar.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

If BJ has any hope of being a champion again he needs to get the hell out of hawaii, get away from yes men and terrible cornermen and get people that are going to beat him into shape. Pathetic performance


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## the ultimate (Mar 5, 2007)

What a performance Frankie Edgar!

Dominated BJ and won every round.


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## smood (Feb 4, 2007)

Frankie Edgar doesn't impress me 
He is like a hyper little mouse it doesn't seem like he has big talent. It just seems BJ is just sleeping and not really trying.

After Edgar wins whoever faces him next will probably demolish him.

Frankie has a retarded family as well. Man I can hear her now. Shut up frankie's sister or whoever it is.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

John8204 said:


> Looks like we might get another 50-45 this time by all 3 judges


WOW...called it


----------



## Gyser (Oct 13, 2009)

"The new BJ Penn" just got his ass handed to him.

Would anyone bitch about 45-50's this time?


----------



## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

UGH... if Frankie is the future of mma, I dont want to watch it. 

He basically is doing to mma what floyd mayweather did to boxing ... BORING :thumbsdown:

Congrats to Frankie for getting the most points!


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

I don't doubt BJ's talent but he looks like Mike tyson in his later days. He does not seem interested and looks mentally weak in there. I think he should call it quits or go away for awhile and think really hard about what he wants.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

I am super pissed right now. Congrats to Edgar though


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

attention said:


> UGH... if Frankie is the future of mma, I dont want to watch it.
> 
> He basically is doing to mma what floyd mayweather did to boxing ... BORING :thumbsdown:


I agree. Frankie's stand up is a joke. Hes fast, dances, and doesn't have any power whatsoever. His takedowns were good but he doesn't do anything. I don't see why everyone says the 155 division is so deep when you've got guys like Gray and Frankie who cant finish shit


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## usernamewoman (Sep 24, 2007)

maynard future champ, can we get bj penn off of the p4p lists now and bring fedor back in


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## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

Please BJ, get your ass into a real camp.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

its not over yet.

frankie could still fail the drug test


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## Dakota? (Dec 27, 2009)

attention said:


> UGH... if Frankie is the future of mma, I dont want to watch it.
> 
> He basically is doing to mma what floyd mayweather did to boxing ... BORING :thumbsdown:
> 
> Congrats to Frankie for getting the most points!


At risk of being neg repped, i agree with this man.


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## Gyser (Oct 13, 2009)

50-45 across the board.

Props to Edgar.

He will lose to Maynard though.


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## smood (Feb 4, 2007)

the ultimate said:


> What a performance Frankie Edgar!
> 
> Dominated BJ and won every round.


Frankie is garbage. He is just a hyper little mouse that moves his head a lot and punches. He barely finishes fights at all. I say hes garbage and BJ barely did anything for some reason.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

Phil Nurse has quite a few wins against BJ now, I think he's his kryptonite. That could be the last we see of BJ.


----------



## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

halfoiked said:


> wow bj penn has horrible cornermen


Indeed. I can't believe what lack of common sense both BJ and his corner continually show, but this fight is the worst. Clearly he wasn't landing standing, so you look for a takedown in order to use you're strength. The fact that BJ didn't look for a takedown until the 4th round is pathetic.


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Maynard gets tired the way he fights in the 3rd round, he might have trouble going 5 with a guy who ever does.


----------



## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

halfoiked said:


> wow bj penn has horrible cornermen


No kidding, Joe Rogan was dead on; the takedowns were working so he's gotta do more of them and he needed to get the legkicks going to slow down Edgar. Does his corner tell him this? No.


----------



## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

Maynard VS Edgar $50 PPV main event... yeah, gonna pass :thumbsdown:


----------



## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

What's wrong with BJ? Should've finished this clown


----------



## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

Frankie Edgar > BJ Penn

the case is closed. just like with GSP. w/e excuses arent nessicary, Frankie is just the worst possible matchup for BJ with his combination of great speed, footwork and angles + grappling. BJ has no answer and they could fight a bunch more times and i believe it will be the same.

Give Frankie his respect now!!!


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Great job by edgar but unless BJ regains foccus or Jose aldo steps up the LW division is now weaker than the MW.


----------



## NissanZaxima (Aug 8, 2010)

Yea as a huge BJ fan i am pissed. He looked like he did against GSP number 2. Didnt even try to do anything even when he knew he was losing he didnt really turn on the gas.

and **** his corner man.... what a shit job they did. They made it seem like BJ was in the fight when he clearly was losing.

That being said Frankies dancing is almost worst than a wrestlers hugging. Even though he clearly won... at no point was BJ in danger of being finished.

I really really really hope Gray bullies him around. I understand that you dont want to give bj a shot to land a big punch. But damn dude try a little harder to finish the fight.


----------



## Gonzo (May 19, 2009)

Call me crazy but I see Edgar beating Maynard. Hes too slick & fast. His footwork will keep him out of danger.


----------



## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

Maynard/Edgar is gonna be a snore. Don't like the way these fights are going, boring wrestlers with little stand up and no jits!


----------



## Killerkrack (Sep 24, 2007)

Prolific said:


> Man i kinda agree maynard will lay on him for 5 rounds to take his title. I think the lightweight division is back to that "non Finishing" weight class i really thought bj just had a stupid gameplan.


Yeah whether Maynard wins (he most likely will) or Edgar wins it looks like we're back to the Sherk-esque days of old.


----------



## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Jeeze. Can't knock out a coconut head and you get all kinds of hate. 

He dropped a guy and subbed him right before his first title fight!

I love Frankie. Very happy he won, I can't believe he was able to takedown and GnP without getting subbed.


----------



## the ultimate (Mar 5, 2007)

smood said:


> Frankie is garbage. He is just a hyper little mouse that moves his head a lot and punches. He barely finishes fights at all. I say hes garbage and BJ barely did anything for some reason.


Yes, the UFC champion is "garbage".

Not getting hit and connecting with punches? That's called good boxing. Just because he was too good for your boy BJ doesn't mean he's garbage.

In 50 minutes against Edgar, BJ has "barely did anything". That's not a coincidence, Frankie is just a bad stylistic match for him.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I'm a HUGE Penn fan and I'm quite disappointed.

However, Edgar fought an amazing fight and beat BJ to the punch in every aspect of the game.

My hats off to him.


----------



## arkanoydz (Mar 15, 2010)

hate to say this but once again it felt more like an unimpressive Penn than an impresive Edgar imo - Frankie's a great fighter and he clearlly won tonight, but something's definitely up with BJ. Off the top of my head it looks like his poorest performance to date...

happy for Edgar though, gotta respect 2 consecutive wins over Penn in his record.


----------



## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

footodors said:


> What's wrong with BJ? Should've finished this clown


Woah there... I dont think he's a clown... I think he's insanely AWESOME getting points and avoiding damage. He stays crazy active and never slows down. I give him credit for making BJ looks like hes asleep... which BJ might as well have been. 

But maybe Im finicky that way... I dont like watching Mayweather either... I want to see attempts at a FINISH... KO, sub, G&P...whatever... but theres NO attempt because he would rather get the points. :thumbsdown:


----------



## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Terror Kovenant said:


> I agree. Frankie's stand up is a joke. Hes fast, dances, and doesn't have any power whatsoever. His takedowns were good but he doesn't do anything. I don't see why everyone says the 155 division is so deep when you've got guys like Gray and Frankie who cant finish shit


Go let him punch you in the face and see if he has no power in his punches. Bunch of haters that can't handle BJ getting beaten, TWICE. All you haters can suck it, way to go Frankie, you are the man. And lol at you guys comparing Edgar to Mayweather, that's gold, Edgar took it to BJ and took risks until the last second, Mayweather is a counterpuncher.


----------



## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

Gonzo said:


> Call me crazy but I see Edgar beating Maynard. Hes too slick & fast. His footwork will keep him out of danger.


 Well said.

Alot of ppl are missing the boat. EASILY (yes he did it EASILY in capital letters) dominating BJ tonight at LW is sometihng unheard of before. It is no fluke, Frankie is growing as a fighter very fast.

Frankie Edgar and Cain Velasquez are the unlikely dominant Champions of the future imo
keep hating. Speed + standup, technique and wrestling. Great combo of skills. Frankie is much better than the 1st time he fought Maynard, way, way better.


----------



## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

Terror Kovenant said:


> If BJ has any hope of being a champion again he needs to get the hell out of hawaii, get away from yes men and terrible cornermen and get people that are going to beat him into shape. Pathetic performance


Exacty!

If he hasn't done it already, I don't see him doing it at this point though. He's a tremendous talent that needs to focus full time on improving and getting a great team around him.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

bj penn was the worst i have evr seen him tonight, i have lost a lot of respect for him aand his piss poor corner, he should have obviously done more leg kicks to slow down frankie and should have got more takedowns and use his apparent world class bjj to inflict some damage on him like he did to joe stevenson, props to frankie even though he is boring as hell.

Now if we can move on to George Sotiropoulos vs ? for 13 contendership and then he'll beat frankie with his awesome bjj and his crisp boxing


----------



## Killerkrack (Sep 24, 2007)

arkanoydz said:


> hate to say this but once again it felt more like an unimpressive Penn than an impresive Edgar imo - Frankie's a great fighter and he clearlly won tonight, but something's definitely up with BJ. Off the top of my head it looks like his poorest performance to date...
> 
> happy for Edgar though, gotta respect 2 consecutive wins over Penn in his record.


Agreed, Penn looked slow, tired, uninterested, and like he really didn't want to finish the fight at all. He just looked flat tbh. Either way Edgar outclassed Penn in all aspects, much respect Frankie.


----------



## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

WTF!!!!

Frankie looked like he was on coke and Penn looked like he took about 10 Vicodin and a few valumes 

I miss the BJ that was determined, the psycho that licked his fallen opponent blood from his gloves . . . take away this impostor and bring back MY FAVORITE FIGHTER


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> Well said.
> 
> Alot of ppl are missing the boat. EASILY (yes he did it EASILY in capital letters) dominating BJ tonight at LW is sometihng unheard of before. It is no fluke, Frankie is growing as a fighter very fast.
> 
> ...


Not gonig to hate but Brock is going to smash cain, cain don't have knock out power and lesnar is the better wrestler and probably twice as strong.


----------



## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

attention said:


> UGH... if Frankie is the future of mma, I dont want to watch it.


He's definitely not the future of MMA. Maynard will tear him apart on the ground.

BJ offered nothing tonight, at least Frankie was always working and managed to take down BJ several times.


----------



## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

the ultimate said:


> Yes, the UFC champion is "garbage".
> 
> Not getting hit and connecting with punches? That's called good boxing. Just because he was too good for your boy BJ doesn't mean he's garbage.
> 
> In 50 minutes against Edgar, BJ has "barely did anything". That's not a coincidence, Frankie is just a bad stylistic match for him.


agreed... but Frankie's strategy was to NOT go for a finish, but to remain evasive and score... if that floats your boat, fine... but i wont pay to watch it.


----------



## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

I'm happier with Edgar/Maynard then Penn/Maynard because I think Maynard would be able to ride Penn for five rounds. The real shame is that Edgar/Florian would be an epic main event as both guys match up really well.

I'm guessing Penn is going to face Gomi or Hughes at WW next.


----------



## smood (Feb 4, 2007)

the ultimate said:


> Yes, the UFC champion is "garbage".
> 
> Not getting hit and connecting with punches? That's called good boxing. Just because he was too good for your boy BJ doesn't mean he's garbage.
> 
> In 50 minutes against Edgar, BJ has "barely did anything". That's not a coincidence, Frankie is just a bad stylistic match for him.


LOL no. The entire fight you could see BJ was barely moving or doing anything. He was way too calm.

All Frankie does is his fast little mouse punches while saying (dush dush dush) with his mouth for sound effects so his punches seem like they are powerful.

Joe Lauzon will crush Frankie Edgar. Did you see him afterwards? Man he will absolutely kill Edgar the mouse.


----------



## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

Yeah man agh I lost all my points again. Can't believe it happened again.


----------



## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

I've got to say, even with BJ Penn being my favorite fighter of all time, I've got to give all my respect to Frankie. When the two of them match up, Frankie has better stand up, better cardio, more willpower, and better wrestling. I'm not a fan of the Answer, but the man deserves his respect. He's the champ, undisputed, no excuses.

As for Penn I have to say that I'm disappointed by his career-long inability to turn it up when he's losing a fight. If he's winning he absolutely dominates. If he's losing he just passively takes it and rolls over. As a fight fan that's one of the hardest things to swallow. I think there's nothing more endearing than courage, and it's why I love watching fighters dig deep and turn it up a notch. I'm disappointed in BJ and with his team. 

Congrats to Frankie for a well fought win. Bring on the Bully for the rematch. I'm pulling for Maynard!


----------



## Killerkrack (Sep 24, 2007)

FrodoFraggins said:


> He's definitely not the future of MMA. Maynard will tear him apart on the ground.
> 
> BJ offered nothing tonight, at least Frankie was always working and managed to take down BJ several times.


Edgar may not be the future of the LW division, but it seems that his style will be at least for the near future. Maynard is a clone of him just slightly better, they both like to score points and ride out decisions.


----------



## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> Well said.
> 
> Alot of ppl are missing the boat. EASILY (yes he did it EASILY in capital letters) dominating BJ tonight at LW is sometihng unheard of before. It is no fluke, Frankie is growing as a fighter very fast.
> 
> ...


Yoikes! dont even try to compare those two fighters...cain and edgar... LOL!

Cain is WAAAAY more exciting to watch.

I give credit for Edgar being evasive... but please... I wouldnt re-watch that fight if you paid me


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## NissanZaxima (Aug 8, 2010)

Yea good luck hyping the next LW title fight Dana.... In Frankie and Grays last 14 fights 13 have gone to decision. Frankie 6 of 7 and Gray 7 of 7.

Like I said Dancing with pepper punches against Slamming and controlling....

If Gray hadnt beat Frankie before there would be 0 hype for this fight.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

also i have to say this is the worst ppv i have ever sen, i enjoyed nate diaz vs davis a little bit and randy making a fool out of james toney was great but the rest was garbage, also i want to give props to bostons own joe lauzon he fought a great fight and won decisively


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## the ultimate (Mar 5, 2007)

attention said:


> agreed... but Frankie's strategy was to NOT go for a finish, but to remain evasive and score... if that floats your boat, fine... but i wont pay to watch it.


I understand that. I like Frankie though, I aprreciate his skills. It's incredibly tough to finish BJ though and Edgar knew he wouldn't be able to do it. Rather than risking victory, he clearly dominated the fight and looked impressive.


----------



## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Amazing. Jaw dropping. I love nothing more in the entirety of MMA than to see Penn's Obnoxious fans (Obnoxious being key, not all of you are obnoxious) get owned. Nothing more. Frankie Edgar, you're the ******* man. Never doubted you for a second. Even though you destroyed my FFL ranking (TWO LOSSES BJ, TWO), I still <3 you. Keep it going and beat Gray as well.

SO MUCH FOR THAT CONTROVERSIAL FIRST FIGHT HUH!?


----------



## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

attention said:


> But maybe Im finicky that way... I dont like watching Mayweather either... I want to see attempts at a FINISH... KO, sub, G&P...whatever... but theres NO attempt because he would rather get the points. :thumbsdown:


Problem is Penn is nearly impossible to finish. In the 4th round when Edgar got him down he was dropping huge bombs on him. Frankie was dropping punches on Penn's head from a standing position with all his weight behind it, I'd call that an attempt to finish the fight. He was trying, he just couldn't get it done since Penn is just too tough.


----------



## the ultimate (Mar 5, 2007)

smood said:


> LOL no. The entire fight you could see BJ was barely moving or doing anything. He was way too calm.
> 
> All Frankie does is his fast little mouse punches while saying (dush dush dush) with his mouth for sound effects so his punches seem like they are powerful.
> 
> Joe Lauzon will crush Frankie Edgar. Did you see him afterwards? Man he will absolutely kill Edgar the mouse.


Because Frankie made him look slow. He's been able to do that two fights in a row.

Fast little mouse punches > no punches.

Edgar would dominate Lauzon. Easy win.


----------



## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

*I hope you guys still aren't blinded by your fanboyism. (spoilers)*

At the risk of rehashing old arguments.

Aldo would WAX BJ. BJ just got outstruck AGAIN by a converted college wrestler with no power. :laugh:

One-dimensional boxing <<<<<<<<<<<<<< World class, explosive Muy Thai.


Aldo needs to wipe his ass with Manny then come and clean out 155.


----------



## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

Killerkrack said:


> Edgar may not be the future of the LW division, but it seems that his style will be at least for the near future. Maynard is a clone of him just slightly better, they both like to score points and ride out decisions.


Edgar gets in tight and close quite a bit. That exposes him to takedowns from good wrestlers. Put his style on a guy with a long reach, and then you'd have a really tough fighter though, but I'm not sure many fighters can keep his pace.

It just seems like the future of MMA is strong wrestlers with good BJJ defense. I'm hoping that's not the case though.


----------



## NissanZaxima (Aug 8, 2010)

Yea say what you want about Nate Diaz but the dude is always looking to finish the ******* fight unlike some fighters... *cough* edgar *cough*

seriously even though Diaz was gassed he could have waited another minute and won the decision but he proceeded to get close and closer and go for the submission.


----------



## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

the ultimate said:


> I understand that. I like Frankie though, I aprreciate his skills. It's incredibly tough to finish BJ though and Edgar knew he wouldn't be able to do it. Rather than risking victory, he clearly dominated the fight and looked impressive.


There is something to be said for waiting for opportunities... similar to GSP's ground game, Edgar can remain evasive in the stand up game... 

BUT... even GSP would look for openings on the ground... Edgar clearly didnt want to KO Penn... he didnt want to stagger him and step inside... he got his shots, when the got close, he pushed off.

But as much as I like GSP, I wouldnt watch him if he at least didnt make the EFFORT/ATTEMPT to finish.


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## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

I wonder if BJ has problems upstairs. Man doesn't seem quite right in the head.
BJ 3 years ago would've smoked this guy.


----------



## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> Not gonig to hate but Brock is going to smash cain, cain don't have knock out power and lesnar is the better wrestler and probably twice as strong.


 yep, in other words, Cain is too small.... who did i hear that about again??

Speed, technique + accuracy > size, power. everyday, everytime. You will see  the difference in size is much greater between Cain and Brock, so i get your point. The difference in skill is even greater.

Frankie is a deserved Champion and will take the respect he seems to not be given. Give him time.


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Aldo would kill Frankie way worse than he would BJ.


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## xbrokenshieldx (Mar 5, 2007)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Yes Come On Bj


Where are you BJ?? 

Why can't I find you?

Why have you gone away?

Where is the ass kicking...

you used to give me?


----------



## ZeroPRIDE (Apr 12, 2006)

Rogan pointed this out during the fight but i was like WTF is up with BJ's corner. They sucked hard and definitely played a role in his loss. Overall disappoint with BJ but Eddie tooled him for 5 round. props son.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

It still amazes me how BAD BJ has looked in some of his fights and still no one has manage to knock him out. I like bj penn alway will any man that is willing to fight gsp and Machida is okay in my books. He just needs to rethink everything and Join a real damn camp.


----------



## the ultimate (Mar 5, 2007)

attention said:


> There is something to be said for waiting for opportunities... similar to GSP's ground game, Edgar can remain evasive in the stand up game...
> 
> BUT... even GSP would look for openings on the ground... Edgar clearly didnt want to KO Penn... he didnt want to stagger him and step inside... he got his shots, when the got close, he pushed off.
> 
> But as much as I like GSP, I wouldnt watch him if he at least didnt make the EFFORT/ATTEMPT to finish.


Because he had a game-plan and that was to not let BJ use his srength to dominate the fight.

As I said, to finish BJ requires a superhuman effort. Edgar was realistic rather than negative.


----------



## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

aerius said:


> Problem is Penn is nearly impossible to finish. In the 4th round when Edgar got him down he was dropping huge bombs on him. Frankie was dropping punches on Penn's head from a standing position with all his weight behind it, I'd call that an attempt to finish the fight. He was trying, he just couldn't get it done since Penn is just too tough.


meh... 'throwing a couple of elbows' != 'attempt to finish' ...at least in my book.

He waited for opportunities and dropped an elbow... but nothing to finish it... not like he rained down punches/elbows... it was like 3


----------



## Killerkrack (Sep 24, 2007)

FrodoFraggins said:


> Edgar gets in tight and close quite a bit. That exposes him to takedowns from good wrestlers. Put his style on a guy with a long reach, and then you'd have a really tough fighter though, but I'm not sure many fighters can keep his pace.
> 
> It just seems like the future of MMA is strong wrestlers with good BJJ defense. I'm hoping that's not the case though.


Agreed, these wrestlers with great BJJ defense are tough SOBs and great fighters in their own right and I have all the respect for them but man does it make for a boring fight.


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## arkanoydz (Mar 15, 2010)

arkanoydz said:


> hate to say this but once again it felt more like an unimpressive Penn than an impresive Edgar imo - Frankie's a great fighter and he clearlly won tonight, but something's definitely up with BJ. Off the top of my head it looks like his poorest performance to date...
> 
> happy for Edgar though, gotta respect 2 consecutive wins over Penn in his record.





Killerkrack said:


> Agreed, Penn looked slow, tired, uninterested, and like he really didn't want to finish the fight at all. He just looked flat tbh. Either way Edgar outclassed Penn in all aspects, much respect Frankie.


I think it would do Penn some good to change camp, his corner was useless tonight.

I get the feeling no matter how many times these 2 fought, it would go the same way the majority of the time simply because of the way they match up. Edgar would get the win via decision, doubt he'd ever be able to finish Penn.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Actually I disagree, I think Frankie and BJ would wreck Aldo. Aldo is looking great fighting a lower class of fighter. Plain and simple guys like Faber and Brown are not even close to the level of guys like Kenny Florian never mind a BJ Penn or a Frankie Edgar. Your not giving Edgar his due.


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

i dont find edgar boring as many do here.

theres a bunch of fights on a card and a bunch of fighters in the UFC. you cant go expecting every fight to end in a KO... 
people lately want to see every fight end in dramatic fashion but nobody seems to appreciate the neutralization of another fighters skills. when you make world class fighters look like they dont belong in the cage with you, thats big to me. I can definitely appreciate that.... 

I also appreciated maynard winning florian because kenny is always scared to get hit. Even at the end when he clearly needed to do something to win he was scared to engage. always backing up and being extra cautious.. the only difference is kenny will choke you out here and there. Im glad that he got a taste of his own medicine with gray tonight lol..


----------



## Wombatsu (Jul 10, 2006)

Edgar very impressive. I feel its time for BJ to change up his camp and his training. Parillos advice was the worst i have ever heard, that is shitful advice in title fight. he should have mixed it up more and been more agressive from the get go. Go to team jackson or something for gods sake.


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

*If BJ gets a new camp could he be unstoppable*

BJ looks like he losted a step and is uninterested and his corner is the same pretty much. How would a new camp effect BJ's future?


----------



## xbrokenshieldx (Mar 5, 2007)

I wrote this song tonight:

Where are you BJ?? 

Why can't I find you?

Why have you gone away?

Where is the ass kicking...

you used to give me?

Why can't I see you gay? (happy, not that you fucker)

My world is changing.

I'm rearranging.

Does that mean BJ changes, too??


----------



## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

the ultimate said:


> Because he had a game-plan and that was to not let BJ use his srength to dominate the fight.
> 
> As I said, to finish BJ requires a superhuman effort. Edgar was realistic rather than negative.


 obviously. ppl who dont train or fight seem to think its easy as pie to finish somebody like BJ Penn or Frankie didnt want to finish him.

Its like saying, hey, hit a homerun, why you hitting singles and stuff?? swing for the fences every at bat!! Im sure Frankie wanted to finish BJ but it wasnt in the cards, he did what he had to do to win an MMA match. Sometimes you gotta bunt home the winning run.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

the ultimate said:


> Because he had a game-plan and that was to not let BJ use his srength to dominate the fight.
> 
> As I said, to finish BJ requires a superhuman effort. Edgar was realistic rather than negative.


I totally give him credit for perfectly executing his game plan.
But like I said, that kind of mma bout isnt the kind I like to watch... not for a main event. 

Im sorry, but thats just my personal pref... i wont rewatch this fight nor will i buy his next ppv... not if this is his thing.

Let me put it this way... I would rather watch Wandy fight and LOSE as an undercard... that watch Edgar WIN on a main event.


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## NissanZaxima (Aug 8, 2010)

chosenFEW said:


> i dont find edgar boring as many do here.
> 
> theres a bunch of fights on a card and a bunch of fighters in the UFC. you cant go expecting every fight to end in a KO...
> people lately want to see every fight end in dramatic fashion but nobody seems to appreciate the neutralization of another fighters skills. when you make world class fighters look like they dont belong in the cage with you, thats big to me. I can definitely appreciate that....
> ...


Never expecting every fight to end in a KO or Submission. But fighters who fight for points rather than fight for the finish are boring no way around it. I hate GSP but at least he goes for submission attempts and what not.

Did you see BJ's face after the fight? Couldnt even tell he got into a fight. To me thats winning not domination


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

BJ needs to train with people who can push him. Who did he bring in a couple B list WEC fighters? Seriously BJ can absolutely school everyone he trains with and that is part of the problem. But realistically BJ has been around a long time, BJ has been at the top of the game since before Matt Hughes was the WW king.


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## the ultimate (Mar 5, 2007)

attention said:


> I totally give him credit for perfectly executing his game plan.
> But like I said, that kind of mma bout isnt the kind I like to watch... not for a main event.
> 
> Im sorry, but thats just my personal pref... i wont rewatch this fight nor will i buy his next ppv... not if this is his thing.


And that's your right to choose not to.


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## out 4 the count (Oct 13, 2008)

Thought it was a pretty good fight to be honest. It was a classic 155 fight and Edgar took everything he learnt from their first meeting and improved on it whilst Penn learnt nothing and paid a heavy price.

Another thing I thought worth noting is that with the upcoming Maynard v Edgar fight, I'm pretty confident Maynard would beat him, leading to a title defence against Penn who I'm pretty sure would beat Maynard, leading to a title defence against Edgar... etc etc


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

he should move to a different weight class and camp, move him up to welterweight


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

attention said:


> I totally give him credit for perfectly executing his game plan.
> But like I said, that kind of mma bout isnt the kind I like to watch... not for a main event.
> 
> Im sorry, but thats just my personal pref... i wont rewatch this fight nor will i buy his next ppv... not if this is his thing.
> ...


Okay so first we have guys who hate "the ground hugging" and now MMA has haters for people who bounce around and punch a guy in the face too much?


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## MILFHunter947 (Jan 30, 2010)

*What Was Wrong With Bj's Cornermen*

did anybody hear what they were telling him?!?!, going into the third or fourth, they (or i think it was only that one guy) were saying shit like "youre doing great" "you know what to do"......like WTF, they cant be saying stuff like that when he's clearly losing the fight, they totally fucked up and they didnt give a word of good advice. i had a feeling that the guy was too scared to give him constructive critisism and actually try to *HELP*


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> he should move to a different weight class and camp, move him up to welterweight


Welterweight is filled with wrestlers.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Actually I disagree, I think Frankie and BJ would wreck Aldo. Aldo is looking great fighting a lower class of fighter. Plain and simple guys like Faber and Brown are not even close to the level of guys like Kenny Florian never mind a BJ Penn or a Frankie Edgar. Your not giving Edgar his due.


Faber is the 145 equivalent to Frankie. Maynard is going to beat Frankie for the title also and I don't believe he could beat BJ. MMA is all about matchups and Aldo is a better striker and faster than both BJ and Frankie.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

I think they know what he is capable of and he knows everything there telling him. Hell he has been so good for so long. In there he looked unmotivated and just quited.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Actually I disagree, I think Frankie and BJ would wreck Aldo. Aldo is looking great fighting a lower class of fighter. Plain and simple guys like Faber and Brown are not even close to the level of guys like Kenny Florian never mind a BJ Penn or a Frankie Edgar. Your not giving Edgar his due.


I gotta agree with Toxic here. Mike Brown was the champ at 145 and would be destroyed by even low-level UFC LWs if he came back up. Aldo has yet to fight anyone of a mid level UFC fighter caliber. 

Some things going for Aldo is he's young and trains at Black House so who knows he has the potential to kick some ass in a few years i just don't think he would currently.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

TraMaI said:


> Okay so first we have guys who hate "the ground hugging" and now MMA has haters for people who bounce around and punch a guy in the face too much?


Yep... I wont rewatch Sherk VS Hughes nor will I care to rewatch Penn VS Edgar (I && II) 
(25 minute snooze fests)

Yeah, Im funny that way


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> Okay so first we have guys who hate "the ground hugging" and now MMA has haters for people who bounce around and punch a guy in the face too much?


I think these people are looking for backyard brawling to be honest. If you don't want to see mixed martial arts, why do you watch it? New rule; any fighter that is smaller than his opponent must stand directly in front of him so he may punch him in the face, any head movement results in a point deduction.


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## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

Maybe Aldo will move up and give Edgar's legs the Faber treatment


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## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

He does need a new camp, but it wouldn't make him unstoppable. His head just isn't in it and no camp can fix that.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> Welterweight is filled with wrestlers.


doesnt matter, he has won the welterweight title before, he wouldnt have to cut much weight and if he is in a new camp he can work on defending against wrestlers, lets face it his speed has now exposed him badly in the lightweight div


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## out 4 the count (Oct 13, 2008)

TraMaI said:


> Okay so first we have guys who hate "the ground hugging" and now MMA has haters for people who bounce around and punch a guy in the face too much?


Whilst personally I didn't really see anything wrong with Edgar's performance, it's the same principle. The ground huggers (Lentz) don't attempt to finish a fight by hurting people which kind of defeats the whole object of it and people are levelling the same criticism at Edgar here. Basically saying that if you don't try to finish the fight it's not worth watching. Which I agree with in principle, I refuse to purchase a card with Fitch (or any other hugger) headlining/co-main eventing.

Although I don't agree it's necessarily the case here.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

TraMaI said:


> Okay so first we have guys who hate "the ground hugging" and now MMA has haters for people who bounce around and punch a guy in the face too much?


 LOL!! read my mind.

now we cant have guys standing and moving too much. nobody on the ground laying too much. nobody on the wall too much or clinching too much.BJ fans urging him to take Frankie down and do some smothering..... yet cry when Frankie bounces around in the standup WINNING EVERY EXCHANGE??

Did you know, BJ doesnt just have to stand there waiting on Frankie in the standup?? he can actually move around himself too, he doesnt have to look like a snail and not cut off Frankie or force him to do anything.

BJ fans are honestly some of the worst of worst hypocrites. If he loses the standup, its not fighting, its running. If he loses on the ground, its an injury, or grease or size difference.

They dont want Frankie bouncing around and winning exchanges but they want BJ to take him down and lay on him cuz he really cant do any damage whatsoever on top it seems.BJ is a world champion at BJJ yet doesnt threaten or do anything off his back except escape to his feet?? 

Escape for what?? he is losing the standup all fight, landing barely anything and not mixing it up at all.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

rabakill said:


> I think these people are looking for backyard brawling to be honest. If you don't want to see mixed martial arts, why do you watch it? New rule; any fighter that is smaller than his opponent must stand directly in front of him so he may punch him in the face, any head movement results in a point deduction.


Absolutely! 

Which would you rather watch

a) 5 rounds of Edgar VS Maynard

OR

b) 3 rounds of Wandy VS Leban

nuff said


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

FrodoFraggins said:


> He does need a new camp, but it wouldn't make him unstoppable. His head just isn't in it and no camp can fix that.


Greg Jackson?? Or Team blackhouse?


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## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

It's not like Frankie has the power to knock people out. He does the best he can with the tools he was given. At least he didn't coast at the end, he always gives 100%.


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## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

Agreed, Frankie loses to Gray but Gray loses to Penn


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Toxic said:


> BJ needs to train with people who can push him. Who did he bring in a couple B list WEC fighters? Seriously BJ can absolutely school everyone he trains with and that is part of the problem. But realistically BJ has been around a long time, BJ has been at the top of the game since before Matt Hughes was the WW king.


Frankie trains with Almeida and Dan Miller. BJ's problems aren't his training partners it is his lack of a sustainable drive to get better and years of fighting and treating his body badly catching up to him.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

NissanZaxima said:


> Did you see BJ's face after the fight? Couldnt even tell he got into a fight. To me thats winning not domination


Again, BJ is one of those people who doesn't cut easily, the only time he's looked like he was in a fight was when GSP brutalized him for 4 rounds. The guy came out unscratched even after Matt Hughes got him in the crucifix and pounded his head in for the stoppage.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

FrodoFraggins said:


> It's not like Frankie has the power to knock people out. He does the best he can with the tools he was given. At least he didn't coast at the end, he always gives 100%.


Fair enough... I give props to him for that :thumbsup:


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

attention said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> Which would you rather watch
> 
> ...


I was mocking you. And I choose option A because both fighters are more talented, if I want to see a slugfest I can just type high school brawl into youtube.


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

rabakill said:


> I think these people are looking for backyard brawling to be honest. If you don't want to see mixed martial arts, why do you watch it? New rule; any fighter that is smaller than his opponent must stand directly in front of him so he may punch him in the face, any head movement results in a point deduction.



how do you think kimbo slice got an MMA contract.... lol


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

After tonight the only fight(s) that makes sense for BJ is for Hughes/Penn III or Gomi/Penn II


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

osmium said:


> Faber is the 145 equivalent to Frankie. Maynard is going to beat Frankie for the title also and I don't believe he could beat BJ. MMA is all about matchups and Aldo is a better striker and faster than both BJ and Frankie.


Really go look at the videos of when BJ brought Faber in to help train for the Sherk fight, BJ tossed poor Faber around like he is a 100lb 12 year old girl. The 145 pound Frankie Edgar my ass.


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## SlowGraffiti (Dec 29, 2007)




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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

John8204 said:


> After tonight the only fight(s) that makes sense for BJ is for Hughes/Penn III or Gomi/Penn II


see though even though he lost I think a metal adjustment would still make him the best LW again.


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## NissanZaxima (Aug 8, 2010)

rabakill said:


> I think these people are looking for backyard brawling to be honest. If you don't want to see mixed martial arts, why do you watch it? New rule; any fighter that is smaller than his opponent must stand directly in front of him so he may punch him in the face, any head movement results in a point deduction.


why do people always resort to this "you just dont understand/appreciate mma" argument? Thats not it at all. There are plenty of fights that go to decision that I love.... where at one point in the match someone is in danger of being stopped.

Edgar just plays it safe. He doesnt throw punches that will finish but he doesnt throw ones that might get him into any trouble either. Its smart but all it is is safe. Sorry call me crazy but safe is boring.

Just because I dont like watching a football game where the final score ends up being 6-3 doesnt mean I dont understand or appreciate the game of football.


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## smood (Feb 4, 2007)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> yep, in other words, Cain is too small.... who did i hear that about again??
> 
> Speed, technique + accuracy > size, power. everyday, everytime. You will see  the difference in size is much greater between Cain and Brock, so i get your point. The difference in skill is even greater.
> 
> Frankie is a deserved Champion and will take the respect he seems to not be given. Give him time.


If that were true, Mir would be champion not Lesnar.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

rabakill said:


> I was mocking you. And I choose option A because both fighters are more talented, if I want to see a slugfest I can just type high school brawl into youtube.


I mock you for choosing (A) 

HEH, its your pref... who am i to tell you what to like.

I think I'd rather watch a 10000 meter marathon than Edgar again... or maybe ballroom dancing... hmmm... not sure.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...Edgar is amazing. Penn got outclassed like never before. Frankie's speed, hands & cardio is sick. Looks like the changing of the guard is confirmed. 
--I figured Maynard's takedown's would put Kenny in trouble. Florian couldn't get off. Gray was so much stronger. Ken's striking was nowhere to be found. Edgar & Maynard will be an awesome fight. 
--LOL at Toney! The only good thing he did was sell the fight, well if you could call it a fight. It was kinda funny. Randy barely broke a sweat. Nice throwback to UFC 1.
--Solid win for Maia. What control. Even though Demian couldn't get the submission, he dominated.
--Lauzon whooped some serious tail. 
--Nate Diaz is at the perfect weight. Nate choked the crap out of Davis and turned his right eye into a slasher movie. ( Rogan- lol! "That right eye of Davis looks like it's been through a woodchipper" ).
Overall, it was sad to see B.J. get shut down. Props still to the greatest LW ever...


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## NissanZaxima (Aug 8, 2010)

attention said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> Which would you rather watch
> 
> ...


3 rounds Wandy vs Leben HANDS down. Not even a contest.

id rather watch 3 rounds of Maia vs Miranda.... at least Maia is always looking for a submission.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

osmium said:


> Frankie trains with Almeida and Dan Miller. BJ's problems aren't his training partners it is his lack of a sustainable drive to get better and years of fighting and treating his body badly catching up to him.


Are Miller an Almedia better BJJ guys than Edgar? Your missing my point, Edgar is bringin in guys better than him in each aspect, BJ is the best striker in his camp by far, the best BJJ guy in his camp by far and easily the best wrestler. On a regular basis he is tested in absolutly no aspect of his game. Training BJJ with Almedia is great the guy is what a 3rd degree black belt. Ricardo is a high level BJJ instructor so I fail to see how working with him can be compared to working with Antonio Banuelos.


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## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

attention said:


> I totally give him credit for perfectly executing his game plan.
> But like I said, that kind of mma bout isnt the kind I like to watch... not for a main event.
> 
> Im sorry, but thats just my personal pref... i wont rewatch this fight nor will i buy his next ppv... not if this is his thing.
> ...


Agreed, Edgar/Maynard is going to be a tough sell....I'm guessing there will be another title fight on the same card as the main event.

I was impressed with Edgar though overall, he was aggressive and able to get some clean TD's on BJ that I didn't think anyone could do.

Good post fight interview from both fighters also


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

No. I've ALWAYS though BJ was overrated. He's never been unstoppable. Ever. The man is 15-7 now. 67% winning record, thats like a D in school. I never have and never will get where BJ got his "unstoppable" title from honestly. It may be because he was the first of a new breed? Because when he came into the UFC he ran through the likes of Caol Uno and Matt Serra? Or was it when he subbed Hughes? Which is impressive in it's own right, yes, but like I said, BJ was one of the first of a new breed and Hughes is cut from the old cloth (Train one style a **** load, train the others enough to learn).Also, that victory was later taken from BJ by getting TKO'd by Hughes.

IDK, BJ has just really never impressed me on a big level. Yes he's a very, very good fighter. Yes he's elite level. But unstoppable? No, sir. Unstoppable is Fedor in the Pride years. BJ Penn has NEVER and will never be Fedor in the Pride years.


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## NissanZaxima (Aug 8, 2010)

attention said:


> I mock you for choosing (A)
> I think I'd rather watch a 10000 meter marathon than Edgar again... or maybe ballroom dancing... hmmm... not sure.


What edgar does is ballroom dancing.


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## smood (Feb 4, 2007)

attention said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> Which would you rather watch
> 
> ...


Leban ******* sucks. He shouldn't even be in UFC that piece of trash.


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## Yojimbo (Oct 25, 2009)

I was thinking the same thing. He has way to many "yes Men" it would appear. It may be his camp or it may be his ego. I'm not sure if BJ is open to not being the "prodigy". If he can humble himself and be open to change I believe he could beat almost anyone. However I must say, Frank Edgar WOW. Bravo Franky.


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## Hail the Potato (Jul 29, 2010)

He had no gameplan in either fight. Greg Jackson would have had him fighting his fight in the 1st round, not wait until the 4th round to try to grapple. 

I'm starting to lose faith in the guy. A true champion would already know that he needs to be motivated for every fight, that his cardio has to be 2nd to none, that he has to have a good gameplan for each different fighter (and to stick to that gameplan). 

Im sure BJ will be back at LW, but this was another very disappointing loss tonight.


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## MILFHunter947 (Jan 30, 2010)

i read in another forum that anderson silva invited him to blackhouse


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

NissanZaxima said:


> why do people always resort to this "you just dont understand/appreciate mma" argument? Thats not it at all. There are plenty of fights that go to decision that I love.... where at one point in the match someone is in danger of being stopped.
> 
> Edgar just plays it safe. He doesnt throw punches that will finish but he doesnt throw ones that might get him into any trouble either. Its smart but all it is is safe. Sorry call me crazy but safe is boring.
> 
> Just because I dont like watching a football game where the final score ends up being 6-3 doesnt mean I dont understand or appreciate the game of football.


because you don't understand mma, at all. To say Frankie Edgar was playing it safe the whole time proves that. Edgar was pushing the fight to a more powerful puncher who was in desperation mode until the very last second. Your conception of Edgar fighting a safe fight is merely not having enough strength to knock out a guy with one of the toughtest chins in the UFC. There's playing it safe, there's being reckless and then there's actual mixed martial arts competition where a fighter goes in and fights his hardest while not standing flatfooted in the pocket against a more powerful opponent. There is absolutely nothing Frankie could have done besides just standing there in the pocket to finish the fight. Maybe we should criticize Anderson Silva for not laying on his back against Thales Leites and Maia, I mean, he was just playing it safe and that's boring right? For Christs sake, your boy BJ lost and your only defense now is to say Edgar just isn't worth watching, good, don't watch, fans like you people are idiotic uneducated fanboys that don't see an amazing fight between two extremely talented fighters when they see one.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Toxic said:


> BJ needs to train with people who can push him. Who did he bring in a couple B list WEC fighters? Seriously BJ can absolutely school everyone he trains with and that is part of the problem. But realistically BJ has been around a long time, BJ has been at the top of the game since before Matt Hughes was the WW king.


Technically yes, but Hughes has been fighting since '98. Penn made his pro debut in 2001. By the time of BJs first fight, Hughes was 25-3 :\


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## NissanZaxima (Aug 8, 2010)

I can just see Rogan in the preview show for Edgar vs Maynard

Frankie Edgar is THE BEST fighter when it comes to dancing around his opponent and hitting them with sockem bopper punches

In the other corner you have Gray Maynard who is a magician at taking his opponents down and laying on them until it has to go to the scorecards.

Put this fight on the same card as Silva vs Sonnen 2 in order to save it Dana


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

jjjjj sorry


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## NissanZaxima (Aug 8, 2010)

rabakill said:


> because you don't understand mma, at all. To say Frankie Edgar was playing it safe the whole time proves that. Edgar was pushing the fight to a more powerful puncher who was in desperation mode until the very last second. Your conception of Edgar fighting a safe fight is merely not having enough strength to knock out a guy with one of the toughtest chins in the UFC. There's playing it safe, there's being reckless and then there's actual mixed martial arts competition where a fighter goes in and fights his hardest while not standing flatfooted in the pocket against a more powerful opponent. There is absolutely nothing Frankie could have done besides just standing there in the pocket to finish the fight. Maybe we should criticize Anderson Silva for not laying on his back against Thales Leites and Maia, I mean, he was just playing it safe and that's boring right?


Yes because Frankies track record clearly shows that he is always looking to finish his fights.

I understand the argument that BJ is hard to finish. But he also didnt finish 4 of his last 5 opponents before that either


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Worst card I've ever watched. Can't believe I paid for that.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

TLC said:


> At the risk of rehashing old arguments.
> 
> Aldo would WAX BJ. BJ just got outstruck AGAIN by a converted college wrestler with no power. :laugh:
> 
> ...


1.everybody in MMA is converted from something, DERP and frankie has been boxing and fighting for as long as he has been wrestling.

2.You don't need power to outstrike someone.

3.Speed, footwork and technique>>>>>>>>>Slow,flatfooted and NO techinique but have power(Not talking about penn) 

4.Aldo isn't a worldclass MT fighter, he doesn't use elbows,he has very average hands but he is a beast with his legs.




But anyway This was a lose,lose for me (because i like them both). I didn't want to see edgar get beat after just winning the title by fighting Penn again as it was unfair but i also didn't want penn to lose as it looks bad because idiots just look at records and go "oh that guy sucks".


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## KEYZER-SOZE (Jul 31, 2010)

Freiermuth said:


> Agreed, Edgar/Maynard is going to be a tough sell....I'm guessing there will be another title fight on the same card as the main event.
> 
> I was impressed with Edgar though overall, he was aggressive and able to get some clean TD's on BJ that I didn't think anyone could do.
> 
> Good post fight interview from both fighters also


that fight couldnt stand on its own it definetly has to have a more exciting fight to follow it, iwas really supprised too of how easy he was taking down bj, he won this fight no question tonight


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## smood (Feb 4, 2007)

NissanZaxima said:


> Never expecting every fight to end in a KO or Submission. But fighters who fight for points rather than fight for the finish are boring no way around it. I hate GSP but at least he goes for submission attempts and what not.
> 
> Did you see BJ's face after the fight? Couldnt even tell he got into a fight. To me thats winning not domination


Hahahha well said.



E Lit Er Ate said:


> LOL!! read my mind.
> 
> now we cant have guys standing and moving too much. nobody on the ground laying too much. nobody on the wall too much or clinching too much.BJ fans urging him to take Frankie down and do some smothering..... yet cry when Frankie bounces around in the standup WINNING EVERY EXCHANGE??
> 
> ...


Its not about what a fighter is doing per se but how they are doing it. If you are just bouncing around throwing little mouse punches and then backing away and scurrying around like a mouse and then doing the same thing over and over then its boring. What people want is someone who punches and keeps punching aggressively and looks to finish the fight. 

Don't say 'now we cant have fighters moving around punching guys in the face' the issue is not that but the manner or tone in which they are doing. If you want to be a mouse and not finish a fight then you can be like Edgar and win with points but people will still be bored and complain.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Are Miller an Almedia better BJJ guys than Edgar? Your missing my point, Edgar is bringin in guys better than him in each aspect, BJ is the best striker in his camp by far, the best BJJ guy in his camp by far and easily the best wrestler. On a regular basis he is tested in absolutly no aspect of his game. Training BJJ with Almedia is great the guy is what a 3rd degree black belt. Ricardo is a high level BJJ instructor so I fail to see how working with him can be compared to working with Antonio Banuelos.


He brought in smaller guys to try and emulate the speed of Frankie not to work on his technique. He wouldn't be as good as he is if he didn't have high quality instructors around him as well. The quality of the guys around you doesn't even matter much if you aren't motivated to use those assets.

I doubt that Dan Miller is tooling Frankie in grappling matches when BJ can't. Almeida's actual skill level is pretty questionable as well in MMA at least he hasn't been very consistent with it.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> Technically yes, but Hughes has been fighting since '98. Penn made his pro debut in 2001. By the time of BJs first fight, Hughes was 25-3 :\


Alright think about it as him as he fought Jens Pulver for a title. Think about how far Jens has fallen. Pen is into his twilight years and his prime is behind him even if he did dog **** it away.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Jesus dude did you not see the 4th (5th?) round? Whichever one it was that Edgar actually put him on his back and start throwing punches? Did you happen to see the one where FRANKIE ******* LEFT THE GROUND AND JUMPED INTO BJS FACE FIST FIRST!? Or how about all the elbows he was throwing before and after that? Frankie is NOT a power boxer, he just doesn't have it and BJ's chin stood up to GSP elbowing it through the floor and into China for 3 rounds. Mind you Frankie did this AFTER HE HAD THE FIGHT WON 3 ROUNDS TO NONE!


I'm honestly perplexed at how people can say "I didn't enjoy watching BJ "Cabbage Patch Doll Face" Penn get punched in his mouth for 5 rounds. Not to mention all the elbows all over his face as well.

EDIT: Screw it, I'll wait until the .Gifs come out so you guys can see the power shots Frankie landed on BJ that made his neck look like rubber. DVR'd it and they're hilarious to see.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

It's the mental game and lack of a gameplan and ability to make in-fight adjustments that's killing him. 

The Edgar fight was very easily winnable for BJ, his takedowns were working most of the time and when he did get a takedown he was able to work for position and put Edgar in some danger. To his credit Edgar was able to escape, but if BJ had gone for takedowns starting in the 2nd round after losing the 1st, I'd think it's only a matter of time before he caught Edgar with something. Same thing with leg kicks, they were working for the most part, so throw them more and try to slow Edgar down, this makes everything else a lot easier.

But he didn't do that, he fought the same fight for the full 5 rounds even though it wasn't working. The other thing is BJ should know that he can walk through Edgar's punches, so why didn't he do that to clinch him, muscle him around, take him down and beat on him? Why did he just stay back and box with him for most of the fight when it wasn't working?

I personally think BJ is too used to his talent being all it takes to win a fight. He hasn't worked out gameplans, watched fight tapes, and done all the other stuff to really prepare for his opponents. He needs to sit down, work out all of his strengths & weaknesses and do the same for his opponents, then put together a plan so he can victimize them. He has all the tools, he just needs to use them properly.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

NissanZaxima said:


> Yes because Frankies track record clearly shows that he is always looking to finish his fights.
> 
> I understand the argument that BJ is hard to finish. But he also didnt finish 4 of his last 5 opponents before that either


Now... go compare the ratio between fights finished and weightclass, and gasp, you will find that fights are finished much less frequently at the lower weight classes, same as boxing because the fighters simply don't have the strength to finish most fights.

Take: Guida, Sanchez, Sherk, Edgar and Penn and compare it to;

Rampage, Rashad, Machida, Shogun, Anderson Silva

Notice how one group of those guys seems to finish more fights, hmm... now think, Edgar's one of the smallest guys in the smallest weightclass and you're criticizing him for not trying to finish fights.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

guy incognito said:


> But anyway This was a lose,lose for me (because i like them both). I didn't want to see edgar get beat after just winning the title by fighting Penn again as it was unfair but i also didn't want penn to lose as *it looks bad because idiots just look at records and go "oh that guy sucks".*



This people forget unlike most of these top guys BJ tested himself against everyone he moved up a weight class and became champ, he went up mulitiple weight classed to fight and backed down from nobody ever. BJ is a true warrior who has always tested himself and people try to twist it as a way to disrespect him rather than give him his due. No wonder GSP doesn't want to move up.


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## Evo (Feb 12, 2007)

Damn, here I thought BJ would be taken down a notch from his weird god like status he has in some peoples eyes, and one of the first posts I see is another, "its because he didn't care is why he lost". Why on earth did he instantly go for a rematch then? What a total lack of interest am I right?

Sorry sorry, I don't mean to be an ass and I know it sucks when a fighter you like loses but I just get tired of this weird thinking with people that somehow BJ is this monster of impossibly defined power and the only reason he doesn't unleash it is because he gets lazy sometimes.

Hopefully he does come back stronger, the last thing we need is one less good fighter around.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

People will always hate on Franky because he beat one of the UFC's posterboys twice in a row. The fact of the matter is that BJ has no clue how to deal with a fighter like Edgar. He had no answer for the speed of Edgar. Frankie completely outclassed Penn tonight.

I mean Frankie was in Penn's guard and Penn had no answer. Penn took Frankie down, and couldn't keep him down. Striking wise, Frankie is just too fast for Penn. I really don't get the hate. First it was all about how Penn didn't take the fight seriously and how he was going to be unstoppable next time. Now Frankie prove's everyone wrong and he gets hate for not being a finisher like Penn is.

I especially don't get how Edgar plays it safe. He was still the aggressor when he had the fight won.

Either way, Edgar is the UFC LW champion.


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## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

BJ might as well retire, he doesn't have the mentality for it anymore. I've never seen a fight were the fighter just gave up after 3 minutes. I'll never be a BJ fan again, FUC*ING QUITER!


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

TraMaI said:


> I'm honestly perplexed at how people can say "I didn't enjoy watching BJ "Cabbage Patch Doll Face" Penn get punched in his mouth for 5 rounds. Not to mention all the elbows all over his face as well.
> 
> EDIT: Screw it, I'll wait until the .Gifs come out so you guys can see the power shots Frankie landed on BJ that made his neck look like rubber. DVR'd it and they're hilarious to see.


Likewise, I thought it was really good fight. Those weren't baby punches, Edgar was diving in on those punches with his full weight behind them. Then you look at the fact that Edgar was able to escape after BJ got him down and had his legs locked up, then managed to pull off a reverse after BJ nearly had his back. That is some serious high level MMA there.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

osmium said:


> Faber is the 145 equivalent to Frankie. Maynard is going to beat Frankie for the title also and I don't believe he could beat BJ. MMA is all about matchups and Aldo is a better striker and faster than both BJ and Frankie.


NOOOOOOOOOO way in HELL is Faber even CLOSE to the level of Frankie. Uriah's striking is shit. Yes, their wrestling/GnP may be the same, but Frankie's striking is light years ahead of Fabers. LIGHT YEARS.


In all honesty, Aldo/Penn would go much, much worse for BJ than his fight Frank if only because Aldo has Frank's speed, but he has a lot of other weapons he uses as well.

On the other hand, Aldo/Edgar would be much, much more closely contested. Mostly because A) Frankie has a really good top/TD game and B) Frankie is as fast, if not FASTER than Aldo. Aldo though, like I said, has a few more fight finishing tricks in the bag (His kicks are brutal and his back game is pretty slick). I don't think by any means that Aldo would tool Frankie. I think it would be a very, very good fight though.


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## APimpNamedAngel (Aug 28, 2010)

This fight really suprised me, no disrespect to Edgar, but I thought Penn would have his number tonight. Penn felt he should have won the first fight, so I figured he would come out guns blazing for this fight, and pick up a submission/knockout. But Edgar really proved that he is the better fighter, he completley dominated him in that fight, winning every round. It'll be interesting to see where both of these men go from here.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Really go look at the videos of when BJ brought Faber in to help train for the Sherk fight, BJ tossed poor Faber around like he is a 100lb 12 year old girl. The 145 pound Frankie Edgar my ass.


That is pretty irrelevant. Faber is quicker than Frankie and couldn't get inside on Aldo. Like I said in the other thread Mixing in shots with your strikes doesn't work when you aren't coming close to landing most of your strikes.



TraMaI said:


> NOOOOOOOOOO way in HELL is Faber even CLOSE to the level of Frankie. Uriah's striking is shit. Yes, their wrestling/GnP may be the same, but Frankie's striking is light years ahead of Fabers. LIGHT YEARS.


No it isn't. He isn't any kind of really good at striking. He beats Penn twice by virtue of being much faster than him and competent standing and all of a sudden people think he is Giorgio Petrosyan.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

I think bj needs a new camp and it would help him allot but you can't say it would make him unstoppable. No matter what camp you are with you are still left with the mind set and work ethic of the fighter and we would have to see if that changes with a new camp.


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## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

BJ of old was awesome, but he's obviously lost the will to fight. I think Aldo would put a serious tarnish on his otherwise HOF career. RIP BJ!


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Really go look at the videos of when BJ brought Faber in to help train for the Sherk fight, BJ tossed poor Faber around like he is a 100lb 12 year old girl. The 145 pound Frankie Edgar my ass.


That's a big 12 year old girl.



TraMaI said:


> NOOOOOOOOOO way in HELL is Faber even CLOSE to the level of Frankie. Uriah's striking is shit. Yes, their wrestling/GnP may be the same, but Frankie's striking is light years ahead of Fabers. LIGHT YEARS.
> 
> 
> In all honesty, Aldo/Penn would go much, much worse for BJ than his fight Frank if only because Aldo has Frank's speed, but he has a lot of other weapons he uses as well.
> ...


I think that Frankie would need to keep Aldo down, but I think he can. If BJ can't do anything to Frankie from his back, what chance does Aldo have?


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## spieden (Aug 8, 2010)

BJ is just like Chuck and Anderson. They got exposed. Chuck is already a Hall of Famer. Maybe the others also. But they are no longer super-human and unbeatable. Get over it. It is OK. Gods they are not. Great for a moment in time... yes. That is good enough. Trying to force them into being immortal is what is not realistic.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

BJ should just train with Anderson Silva they keep asking him to come there and train he might as well.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

osmium said:


> No it isn't. He isn't any kind of really good at striking. He beats Penn twice by virtue of being much faster than him and competent standing and all of a sudden people think he is Giorgio Petrosyan.


You're shitting me right? You're telling me that what we saw tonight wasn't extremely technical, crisp and fast a lighting boxing from Frankie? Holy Hell I need to see what you think an MMA fighter with good striking is.


rockybalboa25 said:


> I think that Frankie would need to keep Aldo down, but I think he can. If BJ can't do anything to Frankie from his back, what chance does Aldo have?


IDK, BlackHouse guys are generally very, very slick off their back. This is a man who trains with A.Silva, the Nogs, Paulo Filho, Jacare, and Wagnney Fabiano amongst others. I find it hard to believe, with partners like that, that he ISN'T click off his back haha.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Im glad Edgar won, I really thought BJ would win tonight but Edger kept him guessing and had some real good footwork.

Its odd because people were talking about pen being injured for the first fight but when I saw BJ walk out tonight I thought he looked ill, his face looked so swollen and puffy almost like he had heart problems.

I thought it was a entertaining fight, I thought all the fights tonight were good.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

AlphaDawg said:


> Worst card I've ever watched. Can't believe I paid for that.


Yeah, never again for me too... never ever again


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## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

BJ looked horrible I really hope his rich ass retires because in his "payback" fight he looked like shit. I've lost all respect for him and hope but nothing for the worst for him. I think at this point Kenny might even school him! Keep talking shit BJ cause you WILL get your ass handed to you everytime.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> You're shitting me right? You're telling me that what we saw tonight wasn't extremely technical, crisp and fast a lighting boxing from Frankie? Holy Hell I need to see what you think an MMA fighter with good striking is.


You are being tricked into thinking he is a really good striker by him facing guys who are slow and guys with midget arms. Pearson would make Frankie look bad standing.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Sounds like some people are going back to the wwe fandom :bye01:, the card tonight was very good and I dont see how any true MMA fan could say different.



Wookie said:


> BJ looked horrible I really hope his rich ass retires because in his "payback" fight he looked like shit. I've lost all respect for him and hope but nothing for the worst for him. I think at this point Kenny might even school him! Keep talking shit BJ cause you WILL get your ass handed to you everytime.


LOL, posts like this make me understand why fighters think MMA forums are full of ignorant people that have no clue.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> You're shitting me right? You're telling me that what we saw tonight wasn't extremely technical, crisp and fast a lighting boxing from Frankie? Holy Hell I need to see what you think an MMA fighter with good striking is.
> 
> 
> IDK, BlackHouse guys are generally very, very slick off their back. This is a man who trains with A.Silva, the Nogs, Paulo Filho, Jacare, and Wagnney Fabiano amongst others. I find it hard to believe, with partners like that, that he ISN'T click off his back haha.


We'd have to see it. He's never been on his back in a fight. He may be good. I still think Frankie can control him.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

attention said:


> Yeah, never again for me too... never ever again


Really? I loved it! I didn't enjoy the Florian/Maynard fight too much. But Edgar/Penn was awesome, Maia displayed amazing grappling skills, Diaz/Davis was a great fight, and Toney got his mouth shut. What didn't you like about it? Not trying to call you out or anything, I am just curious.


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## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

DragonStriker said:


> BJ should just train with Anderson Silva they keep asking him to come there and train he might as well.


Bj needs a pyschologist, because his head wasn't in the last two fights. I seriously hope his nuthuggers abandon him and he gets hungry again. Because nobody thinks you were the best ever or will be BJ!


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Actually I disagree, I think Frankie and BJ would wreck Aldo. Aldo is looking great fighting a lower class of fighter. Plain and simple guys like Faber and Brown are not even close to the level of guys like Kenny Florian never mind a BJ Penn or a Frankie Edgar. Your not giving Edgar his due.


Toxic, you are hilarious. The only thing that could sway you is WHEN not IF, WHEN Aldo moves up and wipes his ass with both of those B+ fighters.


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## js9234 (Apr 8, 2007)

WTF is wrong with you? You're seriously trolling today :thumbsdown:


osmium said:


> You are being tricked into thinking he is a really good striker by him facing guys who are slow and guys with midget arms. Pearson would make Frankie look bad standing.


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

I actually agree, Frankie's striking is far from good.

BJ's just always had laughably overrated stand up. A guy like Jose Aldo would literally wipe his ass with both of them.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

TLC said:


> Toxic, you are hilarious. The only thing that could sway you is WHEN not IF, WHEN Aldo moves up and wipes his ass with both of those B+ fighters.


So there are no A fighters at LW.


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## pokemonzombie (Aug 29, 2010)

I like Edgar was a great showing :thumbsup: The problem I had was he got taken down with sloppy takedown attempts,
if he is to face gray I would like to see a little more improvement on that end.
BJ likes to counter but he was way to slow :/ at one point in the fight Edgar stood in front of him for a good 45 secs with little to no head movement while BJ just looked at him.


off topic Dana should never do a freak show fight again (Couture/Toney) almost ruined the night for me


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## andromeda_68 (Jul 2, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> It still amazes me how BAD BJ has looked in some of his fights and still no one has manage to knock him out. I like bj penn alway will any man that is willing to fight gsp and Machida is okay in my books.


word. 

he took so many solid punches to the face tonight and while that looks bad he also didn't react to any of them.


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

I think that BJ is too old, and has had two too many fights.

Look back at the reflexes and speed that BJ had in his fight with Sherk. He did NOT look like that tonight, not even at the start when he was fresh.

He's slowing down, and because of that, I don't think he'll ever make it back into top standing.

You have to hand it to the guy... starting in UFC 31, and making it to 118!


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

rockybalboa25 said:


> So there are no A fighters at LW.


BJ used to be an A+ fighter, but he's severely on the decline.

So right now no.....there isn't. A guy like Frankie Edgar with the title pretty much reinforces that.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

TLC said:


> BJ used to be an A+ fighter, but he's severely on the decline.
> 
> So right now no.....there isn't. A guy like Frankie Edgar with the title pretty much reinforces that.


That's simply ignorant, to say nowhere in the world is there an A level Lw.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Gluteal Cleft said:


> I think that BJ is too old, and has had two too many fights.
> 
> Look back at the reflexes and speed that BJ had in his fight with Sherk. He did NOT look like that tonight, not even at the start when he was fresh.
> 
> ...



bj was also fat and out of shape. if you remember the old bj who didnt train, this isnt surprising. his wins from pulver on were driven by a decision to train like a real fighter, and i think he ditched that over the last few months when he was told by his yes-men over and over that he had won that first fight.


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## Guy (Feb 17, 2008)

Why is it that BJ Penn is washed up/too old (the guy is 31 for crying out loud) because Edgar beat him? Give Frankie his due already. BJ looked bad because Frankie made him look that way...twice.

Unless Penn looks like a scrub in his next fight, then he is still the BJ we all knew before the Frankie fights.


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## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

HexRei said:


> bj was also fat and out of shape. if you remember the old bj who didnt train, this isnt surprising. his wins from pulver on were driven by a decision to train like a real fighter, and i think he ditched that over the last few months when he was told by his yes-men over and over that he had won that first fight.


The sin of Pride is the deadliest for Penn. Even when motivated and focused, his Pride easily sways him to self-destruction. 

I didn't see this fight, but I read a few accounts of it. 

Once again, Penn didn't adapt. Like Florian, he has not learned to attack from his back. He surrounded himself w/ his sycophants rather than training at another gym, content to be told he was the best rather than to learn and be the best... 

Have to hand it to Edgar. He did to Penn what Penn did to Sherk.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Sicilian_Esq said:


> Have to hand it to Edgar. He did to Penn what Penn did to Sherk.


He finished him via flying knee?


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## Jmac91 (Jun 17, 2009)

Way to go Frankie. Don't me to run my mouth, but I told you guys Frankie would UD him.


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## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

AlphaDawg said:


> He finished him via flying knee?


Naw. Outclassed him with advanced striking. 

Edgar isn't tall enough to pull off a flying knee. It would've hit Penn maybe mid chest... maybe...


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Guy said:


> Why is it that BJ Penn is washed up/too old (the guy is 31 for crying out loud) because Edgar beat him? Give Frankie his due already. BJ looked bad because Frankie made him look that way...twice.
> 
> Unless Penn looks like a scrub in his next fight, then he is still the BJ we all knew before the Frankie fights.


Only time will tell, but the changes in his body since the last fight are pretty obvious. He looked out of shape in comparison, against a real contender that took his in-shape, hard-trained self to a razor thin decision.

I'm not a Penn fan and am not trying to take anything away from Frankie either. I'm not even saying Penn would have won the rematch in a perfect training camp. I just believe he (as Sicilian mentioned above) let his pride get in the way of his training this time around. Frankie took his winning gameplan and did it even better this time around- but I think Penn coasted this one to some degree.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Wookie said:


> Most times I don't neg rep people, but you sir are a Jackass! smoke more crack! - as if you don't know! FU


Neg rep me all you want, if anyone sounds like a Jackass its you.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Frankie Edgar, much like Shogun Rua and Lyoto Machida just has BJ Penn's number. That was a superb performance by Frankie Edgar. He just keeps getting better and better everytime he enters the octagon. He dominated the stand-up, seemed to be able to take BJ down with relative ease, and then defended brilliantly when BJ managed to get top position. It was a magnificent performance. I really hope Frankie keeps the belt for a while, become a big fan of his after this fight.

I'm sure there'll be plenty of suggestions that BJ Penn only lost because his camp isn't good enough, or he wasn't focused, or that he'd lost the fire in his eyes, but frankly, that's bollocks. BJ Penn was fired up, had a very good camp and was determined to get his belt back. The reason Frankie Edgar won this fight is because he implemented a superb gameplan perfectly, and ultimately is a better fighter than BJ Penn. They could fight 5 times and I have no doubt that Frankie would win all 5.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

I hate to say this, but it may be time for BJ to retire. 

His only dream was to regain the world welterweight crown, but that's obviously not going to happen.

The lightweight division bores BJ.

Please someone insert BJ yawning before the fight gif here.


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

*Wow*, so now BJ is to old and beat-up but when he destroyed Diego 8 months ago he was a top 5 P4P fighter.

How about we give Frankie Edgar the credit he deserves.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

BJ's still an awesome & talented fighter.

Edgar is just better, head-to-head.

I'm not gonna lie, either - I love watching BJ lose. lol But there's no need for him to retire; he' sfar from washed up. Perhaps train harder/differently & stop yawning so much before a big fight... I dunno but it seems his biggest problem is between his ears. Altho I've always thought he was a tad overrated.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Gutted.

Edgar fought a great fight, really impressed me last night. Really surprised me how easily he took Penn down, and how he got back to his feet once taken down.

Hope Penn fights again soon, and gets some hunger back for the sport.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Yup, that's it - Penn just needs to get hungry & stay that way. Fix your head, BJ!


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

KryOnicle said:


> Gutted.


Me too. 
Couture-Toney should've been the Main Event, atleast that made me smile.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

It appears BJ is severely on the decline. He doesnt have the reflexes, the speed, the power or the masterful Ju Jitsu he usesd to possess.

I, m still truly shocked to see how easy edgar slammed bj onto the matt, after gsp had more trouble taking him down. Shocked to see BJ unable to do any thing withi his Ju jitsu on top and from his back. Just shocked.

BJ will always be my favourite fighter ever no matter what happens from here on out.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

I used to think BJ got a bad rap: maybe Dana's producers DID edit ufc prime time to make him look bad.

But did Dana force BJ to choose that dirtbag trainer of his? That cockroach makes Jenna Jameson look like a saint.


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## boatoar (May 14, 2010)

I am humbled beyond all humbling. I was certain BJ would demolish Edgar. I know I'm not alone in having thought this, but he looked horrendous tonight. Also - massive props to Edgar, he reminds me of a more polished boxing Dominick Cruz with his ridiculous pace and footwork. Great performance.

I lost a lot of coin tonight though, that's gonna smart for awhile.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

Again BJ didnt look himself lastnight. Not taking anything away from Edgar, he fought a great fight and deserves to be the champ.

But if you look at how BJ is in the cage during the announcements in his fights against Sherk, Florian, Sanchez. . . the fights where he looked phenomenal, he's focussed, he's hitting himself in the face, puts his guard up and gently bashes his cheek (like a habit of his), thats when you know BJ Penn has come to fight! - Against Edgar we saw none of this (if anyone can get GIFs of these examples that would be great!). He looked like he didnt even want to be there.

I have no idea whats going on in BJ's head, but i think the guy is done. He cant motivate himself for any length of time and because of that he'll never be as great as he should be.

For that reason, i'm out.

RIP BJ Penn, it was a cool ride while it lasted.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

This fight really blew me away. I thought Edgar won the first, but I had no idea how dominant he would be. He made Penn look like he was moving in slow motion. This performance was unbelievable, I am beyond excited for Edgar vs Maynard.


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## RossCrispin (Aug 4, 2010)

I was so gutted seeing BJ lose


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

TLC said:


> Toxic, you are hilarious. The only thing that could sway you is WHEN not IF, WHEN Aldo moves up and wipes his ass with both of those B+ fighters.


 Aldo may move up someday and be sucessful but that day is not as close to reality as you make it sound. Aldo has never fought a true elite level fighter because honestly the best guys in the WEC have a big talent gap compared to the top guys in the UFC. Aldo has looked good dominating guys who would be fighting on the under card of UFC PPV's.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Wow.

I thought Edgar would win again, but I didn't think it would be as dominant as it was. Styles do make fights and Frankie's rapid movement and sharp striking are a bad matchup for... anybody actually. I was really impressed with his ability to take BJ down a couple of times and even land some really solid ground and pound. Now I hope his TDD will be enough for Maynard because he's the last guy I want to see on top.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

The Lone Wolf said:


> Again BJ didnt look himself lastnight. Not taking anything away from Edgar, he fought a great fight and deserves to be the champ.
> 
> But if you look at how BJ is in the cage during the announcements in his fights against Sherk, Florian, Sanchez. . . the fights where he looked phenomenal, he's focussed, he's hitting himself in the face, puts his guard up and gently bashes his cheek (like a habit of his), thats when you know BJ Penn has come to fight! - Against Edgar we saw none of this (if anyone can get GIFs of these examples that would be great!). He looked like he didnt even want to be there.
> 
> ...


You are right. He wasn't pissed off. He was the most fired up with Sanchez. Same with Sherk, Flo, Jens x 2, GSP x 2 (loss), and his old fights. I think BJ needs to fight in front of his hometown in Hilo, Hawaii to rekindle that fighting spirit. He seemed broken to a degree and Edgar was full of confidence. 

He's far from out though. Edgar won, but he was not finished by any means. When you get KTFO out like Chuck that's a different story even though I think Chuck has one last fight to redeem himself. There are champions and there are legends. BJ has obtained that and nobody can take it from em. He'll be back...


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

I read every post in this thread and all I learned was that ATTENTION, and NISSANwhatever are moronic tools.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> I read every post in this thread and all I learned was that ATTENTION, and NISSANwhatever are moronic tools.


You also learnt (I hope) that posts like this are not tolerated.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

Toxic said:


> You also learnt (I hope) that posts like this are not tolerated.


yes toxic, I'm aware. I just had to do what I had to do. I'm only human, and it was worth the infraction. TBH, with the lack of quality in these members posts on this thread I'm just about out of here. No offense.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

The Lone Wolf said:


> Again BJ didnt look himself lastnight. Not taking anything away from Edgar, he fought a great fight and deserves to be the champ.
> 
> But if you look at how BJ is in the cage during the announcements in his fights against Sherk, Florian, Sanchez. . . the fights where he looked phenomenal, he's focussed, he's hitting himself in the face, puts his guard up and gently bashes his cheek (like a habit of his), thats when you know BJ Penn has come to fight! - Against Edgar we saw none of this (if anyone can get GIFs of these examples that would be great!). He looked like he didnt even want to be there.
> 
> ...


I agree he didn't look like his usual self, but IMO that's because for the first time in his career he lost confidence in his ability to dominate his opponent. On paper guys like Diego or Kenflo are like shooting ducks in a barrel, but BJ is a smart guy and you could see it in his eyes for the first time last night, he was scared, not of getting hurt, but of losing his legacy in a fight that he has no control over.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

on to the subject @ hand. BJ PENN just got exposed! I've said it many times before, and I'll say it again. BJ PENN has weak cardio. He's a spoiled rich boy, who has talent but doesn't put in the training. His achilles heel is a fighter who can push the pace, and make BJ PENN fight their fight. And that's exactly what Frankie Edgar has done twice now.

If you look at so called "new penn's" 4 previous wins...Stevenson, Sherk, Florian and Sanchez. All were either rocked by a punch early on, or had no hesitation to stand in front of Penn and trade with him, Essentially playing right in to his hands. Stevenson was rocked early, then cut. Sherk stood in front of Penn and begged to be jabbed in the face, hardly impressive. And both Florian and Sanchez hugged on Penn trying to pull a GSP. Only giving Penn time to rest and finish them.

Penn looked different in this fight because he knew his weakness, and he knew edgar had his number. Abu Dabi was no fluke. Penn looked cool because he was trying to save that much more energy for the 5 round war that he knew was coming.

And as for Edgar playing it safe/not trying to finish the fight. Give me a break people. I saw Penn slammed around like never before, I saw him eat some vicious shots. And even when edgar truly could have coasted, he stayed engaged. You BJ Penn fans are really ridiculous. Fighting BJ Penn twice only made Edgar stronger, and Penn went in with the same strategy as the first fight, his true downfall.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

i wanted BJ Penn to lose this fight after watching the pre-fight hype video. Was I the only one who noticed that Penn accused Edgar of getting delusions of grandeur, only to go on a rant about how he's the king of KO's and the king of submissions. And he's accusing Edgar of having delusions of Grandeur? what a joke!

oh, and it's not cardio, it's piss poor hawaiian stamina.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> I read every post in this thread and all I learned was that ATTENTION, and NISSANwhatever are moronic tools.


Dude... I have my opinion and preference for the fighters I like to watch... you have yours.

Your personal attack on me just goes to show who the real 'moronic tool' truly is.



sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> And as for Edgar playing it safe/not trying to finish the fight. Give me a break people. I saw Penn slammed around like never before, I saw him eat some vicious shots. And even when edgar truly could have coasted, he stayed engaged. You BJ Penn fans are really ridiculous. Fighting BJ Penn twice only made Edgar stronger, and Penn went in with the same strategy as the first fight, his true downfall.


Let me put it this way... Do you think *ANY* parts of that fight will end up one of the UFC's 'best of' DVDs/BluRays?

How many people will look back and want to rewatch that fight for the 'action'? ...other than people wanting to watch BJ get his arse handed to him...twice.

If you _really _read my posts, I gave mad props to Edgar for fighting/excuting a perfectly strategic fight. He went 100% from start to finish and made BJ look like he was moving in slow motion, which gave him the win....

...BUT that strategy lost me as a fan. I stopped watching boxing because of 'this' kind of Mayweather 'boxing'...and I will stop watching this kind of 'strategic' mma.

If you like watching Edgar fight, more power to you... but for me, I will pass... and I think ALOT of people will too.

Lets see what the PPV numbers will be for the Edgar/Maynard fight... if thats the main draw, I doubt it will be though, I predict those number will be pathetic.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> yes toxic, I'm aware. I just had to do what I had to do. I'm only human, and it was worth the infraction. TBH, with the lack of quality in these members posts on this thread I'm just about out of here. No offense.


You're bias for Edgar is clear... but you seem to insist that your 'OPINION/PERSONAL PREFERENCE'... is the only valid choice.:sarcastic12:

I'll make this worth the infraction...
Are you 12 years old? because apparently you feel you have to be 'right' about something. :confused03:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

attention said:


> Dude... I have my opinion and preference for the fighters I like to watch... you have yours.
> 
> Your personal attack on me just goes to show who the real 'moronic tool' truly is.
> 
> ...


The fact that you dont enjoy watching mayweather fight says it all. Mayweather is just a joy to watch in the boxing ring.

BJ Penn vs frankie Edgar was a great fight from a spectators viewpoint. You got to see a full 25 of very technical and exciting MMA. Excellent technical boxing, clinching and ground work. I was on the edge of my seat from start to finish also, (being a huge penn fan) wondering when he was going to pull the rigger and TKO edgar or submit him. When Penn took edgar down i jumped out of my seat.

Bonnar vs Griffin and the korean zombie fights dont appeal to me. Two very untechnical fights (korean zombie fight was truly embarrassing for mma in parts).


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

You guys each have a point. I'm definitely pro Penn, but I knew Edgar was a tough match up for him for not just having excellent cardio, but his movement and the way he mixes up his strikes. After watching him beat Tyson who's very quick in his own right I realized this kid would be an armful for anybody the way he fights; darts in and out and lands points. Need someone quicker with KO power (Aldo) or someone who can smother em. I think George S. and definitely Maynard can take him out. 

PPV wise of course he's not gonna draw as much as Penn. 

I hope that's why people watch Anderson Silva, Shogun, Fedor, or heck even Brock now. They usually try to finish the fights with finality rather than being content on riding out the rounds. Please don't mention the Thales or Maia fight.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

attention said:


> Dude... I have my opinion and preference for the fighters I like to watch... you have yours.
> 
> Your personal attack on me just goes to show who the real 'moronic tool' truly is.
> 
> ...


I may have been a little harsh on my critique of you ATTENTION. But the double whammy of your statements combined with the NissanXima or whatever his name was were very irritating. More so on his part than yours so for that I apologize. And yes, you did give mad props to edgar, and no I am not bias toward edgar.

In fact, I predicted the upset at 112, and was surprised to realize I was devestated for penn, and actually a huge fan. He just kind of lost me after all his BS after UFC 94.

Honestly, for a championship bout, this was a great bout and deserves to be among the BEST OF 2010 nominee's hands down. 

My beef with your posts is that you're saying that Edgar fights not to finish fights. I just don't think that is the case. I think if Edgar could finish Penn, or any other of his opponents, he would! That's my only problem, you're saying Edgar point fights by design, and that's not the case. 

Bisping fights for points, Fitch fights for points. Edgar? Not so much. I promise you, edgar did not want to be in that cage any longer than he had to with Penn. And the fact that he dominated him for the full 5 rounds and didn't coast when it was well in his right is a testament to edgar's heart, conditioning, and will.

Penn is a world class fighter. And he just got punked out. 

All I'm trying to say is that if Edgar could've finished the fight, he would have. He couldn't, so he did the next best thing, and it was far from boring. In fact how could someone dominating bj penn like never before in the lightweight division be boring?


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

People neglect to point out that Frankie has outclassed not one but two former UFC champs: Sherk, and now Penn twice. 

Sherk looked like he was walking through molasses against Frankie. He couldn't catch up to him with punches and was taken down at will. IIRC, Sherk left the building and did not bother to take a drug test afterwards. 

Penn: same thing. He couldn't catch up to Frankie, got tagged a lot and was a step slow; got taken down at will. 

Frankie's skillset is outstanding. He doesn't have one punch KO power, but I will say this: he is an ARTIST.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

also, I hate decisions. I want fighters to finish fights. To me a decision is nothing more than a draw. But when you put on an entertaining MMA clinic in a fashion like Edgar did last night, I'm more inclined to let you slide.


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

Guy said:


> Why is it that BJ Penn is washed up/too old (the guy is 31 for crying out loud) because Edgar beat him? Give Frankie his due already. BJ looked bad because Frankie made him look that way...twice.
> 
> Unless Penn looks like a scrub in his next fight, then he is still the BJ we all knew before the Frankie fights.


Well, Penn used to be FAST. Sherk threw some FAST punches, and by the time he got those arms out there, BJ was hanging out a foot to the side, having a smoke, waiting for Sherk to realize what had happened.

But in the last two fights, that hasn't been the case. Just the opposite, he was getting punched in the face, without even having a CHANCE to move out of the way.

Unless the last two fights are anomalies, then it seems like Penn just doesn't have the speed that he used to. Whether he's 31 or 51 doesn't matter.

Sure, maybe it's just because he was fat and out of shape... but whether the cause is laziness or age, if he is going to be slow like he was last night, he's never going to be on top again.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

He's still the greatest for me!


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Gluteal Cleft said:


> Well, Penn used to be FAST. Sherk threw some FAST punches, and by the time he got those arms out there, BJ was hanging out a foot to the side, having a smoke, waiting for Sherk to realize what had happened.
> 
> But in the last two fights, that hasn't been the case. Just the opposite, he was getting punched in the face, without even having a CHANCE to move out of the way.


Frankie is A LOT faster than anyone BJ has ever faced. Maybe that had something to do with BJ not being able to get out of the way.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Vale_Tudo said:


> *Wow*, so now BJ is to old and beat-up but when he destroyed Diego 8 months ago he was a top 5 P4P fighter.
> 
> How about we give Frankie Edgar the credit he deserves.


QFT +rep


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> I may have been a little harsh on my critique of you ATTENTION. But the double whammy of your statements combined with the NissanXima or whatever his name was were very irritating. More so on his part than yours so for that I apologize. And yes, you did give mad props to edgar, and no I am not bias toward edgar.
> 
> In fact, I predicted the upset at 112, and was surprised to realize I was devestated for penn, and actually a huge fan. He just kind of lost me after all his BS after UFC 94.
> 
> ...


Im being as critical of Edgar as people are to GSP...

What GSP does on the ground, is what Edgar does on his feet...

They both execute a game plan and wait for opportunities... both wont take unnecessary risks and both will defer on the side of caution. 

The difference between the two is that GSP actually will look for the sub on the ground... while Edgar merely looks to outpoint on the feet... hes not looking for the KO.

As far as his performance vs Penn... I dont feel he risked 'enough'... Penn looked disheartened and broken by the 3rd... Edgar was landing pretty much at will... Yet he still remained within the bounds of this perfectly executed game plan and, IMHO, didnt look like he wanted to 'finish' him.

...I will freely admit that I lost big on Penn, so Im biased somewhat... but for all that 'activity', I never really thought BJ was gonna be put out of his misery... it even looked like BJ wanted out, but Edgar wouldnt oblige him.

...and yeah, comparing him to GSP is a compliment in my book


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

There is nothing wrong with point fighting.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

Seeing BJ getting slammed and taken down over and over again made my day.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

*You can't finish the toughest guys in the world, in the TOUGHEST UFC weight division to finish people, and you aren't trying to finish fights.... *

You guys DO realise that we are never going to see BJ Penn's coconut head go unconscious, right? 

*So I ask you, would you:

A) rather have Frankie do what he did, PROVING, that BJ Penn could do NOTHING to beat him. *

or
*
B) do what Hughes did, by annoyingly hold him down and pepper him with shots that do not hurt.*




(BOTH WAYS are sweet! because there is no way to beat BJ Penn besides Ref, Doctor, or Corner TKO!!! GOT IT NOW?!)


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

slapshot said:


> There is nothing wrong with point fighting.


Yes there is. Theres no excuse for not trying to finish your opponent.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

attention said:


> Im being as critical of Edgar as people are to GSP...
> 
> What GSP does on the ground, is what Edgar does on his feet...
> 
> ...


that's fair enough of an assessment I'll give you that. I thought taking Penn down in the first round before they were sweaty was pretty risky and dangerous. Also, engaging penn in the 5th round was an unnecessary risk. Hell, getting in the ring with Penn is a risk.

I just think Penn is extremely hard to finish, and yeah, Edgar is not a finisher but I find his fighting style impressive, intriguing, and exciting. MAYNARD VS FLORIAN was a boring fight against two people who were afraid to lose. What Edgar did was what someone should do, be it a fight to a decision or not. Effective game planning, as well as aggression.

If anyone is boring, it's Penn. He refused to do anything except follow Edgar around and wait for the KO punch. He totally gave up in abu dabi in rounds 3,4 and 5 as well. In Penn's old MMA age, he's starting to become quite one dimensional, and unfortunately just met his nemesis.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Yes there is. Theres no excuse for not trying to finish your opponent.


On the contrary. There's nothing wrong with not trying to hurt your opponet. As a matter of fact, deliberately aiming to hurt your opponent IMO is what there is no excuse for.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

Squirrelfighter said:


> On the contrary. There's nothing wrong with not trying to hurt your opponet. As a matter of fact, *deliberately aiming to hurt your opponent IMO is what there is no excuse for.*


*
*

Really? So you wouldnt ever go for an armbar, or kimura? You wouldnt get into full mount and pummell your opponent until he cant take it anymore? :confused03:


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## MatParker116 (Feb 21, 2009)

*Your in BJ's corner last night what are you telling him?*

What I would of been screaming at him between rounds:
*First three rounds:*
"Time him with uppercuts and combinations when he comes in, when he's not coming in I want you to tee off on that lead leg to take away his speed. Get this fight to floor that's your realm. You need to be more agressive this passive resistance bullshit is not how you win fights."
*Round Four:*
"BJ your three rounds down, wake the **** up and close the distance. Stop letting this idiot dance around you, this guy stole your belt and you are letting him get away with it. Leg kicks, takedowns be more agressive your better than this guy."
*Round Five:*
"Do you want to be a ******* fighter? Stop playing the counter game and close the ******* distance. You have two options knock this guy out or submit him. I want you to let everything go this round you have nothing to lose"


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

BJ looked very much himself. Just against a faster, better striker. Ppl dont want to accept that, but Frankie is easily a better striker than Penn. Penn has so few tools and is predictable that once they dont work he has no idea what to do.

BJ is also not great off his back, never has been. He doesnt threaten much and doesnt want to be there.BJ doesnt have the skillset to beaet Frankie. 1st and foremost you need great wrestling and top control. Standing with Frankie is a bad idea, his footwork and speed are really on another level and he doesnt offer much in terms of angles for counters etc. Its funny, if Frankie had KO power all u guys would be on his sack. Because he doesnt he is some kind of fake fighter or something.

KO power doesnt make somebody a "real" fighter. Frankie wasnt blessed with that kind of power so he works with what God gave him. 

Props to the man that beat the greatest LW of all time 2x. Very decisively the 2nd time.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

MatParker116 said:


> What I would of been screaming at him between rounds:


Less poi next time, you are getting a gut like James Toney.

Didn't anyone else think he was looking a bit soft?


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

hit this guy with leg kicks, dont be scared of the takedown so much, he cant knock you out or sub you so if he takes it down he is in your world. you have to slow him down with leg kicks and body shots.

alas if his corner was not ubber retarted and had some sort of gameplan to counter edgars speed. he only tried takedowns after the forth round WTF!?


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

Leg kicks Leg Kicks Leg Kicks. Then, Inside leg kick and shoot for take down. Half guard transition to full mount, Frankie will roll, take his back, victory via RNC.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I don't agree that BJ isn't dangerous off of his back!:thumbsdown:


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Nefilim777 said:


> Leg kicks Leg Kicks Leg Kicks. Then, Inside leg kick and shoot for take down. Half guard transition to full mount, Frankie will roll, take his back, victory via RNC.


I was sure BJ had Frankie once he had a hold of him on the ground, and it was insane to see Frankie get up pretty quickly each time. 

I don't think BJ's corner could have told him to do anything during the fight except leg kicks and shoot. But, BJ is a proud guy and Frankie getting up so quickly definitely took away BJ's confidence there. When people watch a fight they don't realise that every punch you throw, every takdedown attempt, is an opportunity for embarassment. BJ is the last guy who wants to be embarassed or look foolish.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

SJ said:


> I was sure BJ had Frankie once he had a hold of him on the ground, and it was insane to see Frankie get up pretty quickly each time.
> 
> I don't think BJ's corner could have told him to do anything during the fight except leg kicks and shoot. But, BJ is a proud guy and Frankie getting up so quickly definitely took away BJ's confidence there.


True, but I think that if he had of delivered more leg kicks he would have slowed/broken him down. If Frankie's legs were all swollen up he wouldn't have been so quick to get up off the mat. BJs jits is world class and we saw sweet fuckk all of it.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

I'm no tactical genius but surely after losing the first 3 rounds aggression should have been the key thing. If BJ gets KOd then so be it but there was no urgency until about 3 1/2 minutes in the 5th. BJ didn't leave it all out in the octagon which is massively disappointing.


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

the fight just ticked me off, it was almost as bad as seeing page get leg kicked to death and not check it. i for one think that wrestlers are gonna completely take over MMA soon at this rate.

edgar was able to stick and move the whole fight and you could tell penn was worried about the takedown and was either too slow or hesitant to throw kicks.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

That he needs to stop waiting for the counter strike and start been the aggressor and swinging some shots Edgars way, well that's what I would of told him after the first 3 round if not before.

Penn was pi$$ poor last night in total after both fights he spent 50 mins trying to catch Edgar on the counter to no effect, you would think he would at least give up after 40 mins if not before and start swinging shots his way or at least trying something different to ty and catch him even with some wild shots, by that point what the fcuk did he have to loose.

There was a certain need for desperation come the end of that fight and Penn just sat back continued to wait for the clock to count down, it was a disgrace, if your going to loose at least give it all you got before you go down thats what I say.


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## cisco2403 (Apr 12, 2010)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> BJ looked very much himself. Just against a faster, better striker. Ppl dont want to accept that, but Frankie is easily a better striker than Penn. Penn has so few tools and is predictable that once they dont work he has no idea what to do.
> 
> BJ is also not great off his back, never has been. He doesnt threaten much and doesnt want to be there.BJ doesnt have the skillset to beaet Frankie. 1st and foremost you need great wrestling and top control. Standing with Frankie is a bad idea, his footwork and speed are really on another level and he doesnt offer much in terms of angles for counters etc. Its funny, if Frankie had KO power all u guys would be on his sack. Because he doesnt he is some kind of fake fighter or something.
> 
> ...


BJ didn't look like himself but this is not an excuse. He looked horrible. Whatever secret training he did, it didn't work. It seems he has regressed from the last fight. 

I also don't agree with BJ having few tools? The guy can beat you standing or on the ground. It is his tools that make him great. Also, BJ does have what it takes to beat Frankie. BJ has great top control. There was a time, not sure if it's still there or not that if BJ Penn was on top of you, you were getting finished.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

MatParker116 said:


> *Round Five:*
> "Do you want to be a ******* fighter? Stop playing the counter game and close the ******* distance. You have two options knock this guy out or submit him. I want you to let everything go this round you have nothing to lose"


I love how you went "Dana" on his ass there - nice


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah BJ has the ability to beat Frankie but he hasn't used it in his last two matches!


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## Shoegazer (Jun 23, 2007)

Me: "You're fighting his fight and getting your *** handed to you. Either get out there and act like you actually want to fight or I'm throwing in the towel. This is ridiculous. You're bigger, stronger, and better on the ground. He can't hurt you, he can only outscore you if you keep circling like a mindless idiot. TAKE HIM DOWN. If he gets up, TAKE HIM DOWN again." 

Seriously, where did BJ's jitz skills go? How the heck did he win the BJJ world championships? He looked like he had no idea how to pull off an armbar or triangle...or even trap an arm. I can only conclude BJ has some serious mental blocks going on and either needs a sports therapist or to hang it up. 

That version of BJ Penn we saw last night could NEVER beat a Florian, or even a Guida.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well fighters have their up fights and down fights!


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

in the 1st fight Edgar took Penn's belt. In this fight he took his heart.

Penn doesn't have the heart of a champion.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

Yeah BJ looks so bad the second I saw that zombie attitude I was like oh no what's this. I couldn't belive he was just standing there with no emotion was so odd. His cornermen really threw it off for him too. Why are they not giving him advice just saying he is doing good. I was just shocked at the fight bj fought. I really hope he comes back and fights good next time.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

I bet 50K on Frankie woohoo!!

I wish I'd bet real money.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I wasn't sure enough to bet real money!


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## thrshr01 (Dec 30, 2007)

*Excuses*

people really need to stop making cop outs saying BJ did not look like the great BJ. Have you guys ever thought that maybe Frankie is that much of a stylistic nightmare for BJ that Frankie made him look aweful? They fought 2 straight times with the same resault, give Frankie the credit that he deserves!


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

I have no idea what happened to BJ, all i know is this time he actually lost. Frank also managed to prove to me he is one of the least powerful men in Mixed Martial Arts today, cant wait to see how he does against someone who WILL take him down.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

It's not that he isn't powerful, its more that hes light!


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Syxx Paq said:


> I have no idea what happened to BJ, all i know is this time he actually lost. Frank also managed to prove to me he is one of the least powerful men in Mixed Martial Arts today, cant wait to see how he does against someone who WILL take him down.


BJ did take him down, but he couldn't keep him there.

Edgar's speed applies on the feet AND on the ground.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah that is definately true!


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

All I know is that he cannot lose again cause if he does he won't get another title shot ever most likely and I am a huge BJ fan and I am sure most will agree.


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## js9234 (Apr 8, 2007)

Least Powerful? He picked BJ up and slammed him more than once. BJ's face hasn't looked like that after a fight but only one other time I can remember. His face didn't even look like that after he fought Machida. A little butt hurt are we?


Syxx Paq said:


> I have no idea what happened to BJ, all i know is this time he actually lost. Frank also managed to prove to me he is one of the least powerful men in Mixed Martial Arts today, cant wait to see how he does against someone who WILL take him down.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I think he'll get another win and another title shot eventually!:thumbsup:


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

BJ is probably only one of two LW's in the UFC capable of selling PPV tickets, with Gomi POTENTIALLY being the other, if he can continue to dazzle with his hands.

If BJ can pick up even *one *impressive victory, he'll be hotshoted to a title shot, especially if it's Maynard, or someone else in the future.

If Edgar remains champ however, I don't think Dana will be eager to book a third fight.


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

BJ is pretty much done. If he gets another camp and rededicates and reinvents himself as a fighter he'll completely hitewash the division but he's not going to.


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

I think what happened to matt hughes, the sport evolving and leaving them behind, is starting to happen to Penn. I am reminded of Liddell's situation, with Hackleman. Penn does need to find another camp, cause how he was training clearly wasn't enough. He showed NO change in strategy what so ever in this rematch. And like Joe was saying his corner advice was pathetic.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

DragonStriker said:


> Yeah BJ looks so bad the second I saw that zombie attitude I was like oh no what's this. I couldn't belive he was just standing there with no emotion was so odd. His cornermen really threw it off for him too. Why are they not giving him advice just saying he is doing good. I was just shocked at the fight bj fought. I really hope he comes back and fights good next time.


I am not a Penn fan at all, but I was quite surprised by the advice given to Penn as well. There was absolutely nothing useful that he could have taken from his corner at all. They didn't tell him how to modify his gameplan iun order to adapt to Frankie's.



Syxx Paq said:


> I have no idea what happened to BJ, all i know is this time he actually lost. Frank also managed to prove to me he is one of the least powerful men in Mixed Martial Arts today, cant wait to see how he does against someone who WILL take him down.


First of all, Penn did take Edgar down and he couldn't keep him there long enough to do anything at all. Edgar's speed in the scramble is unreal. Frankie has proven himself already. Take a look at his record. He has beaten Jim Miller, Mark Bocek, Spencer Fisher, Hermes Franca, Sean Sherk, he is one of the only people to have beaten Tyson Griffin, and he has 2 wins over BJ Penn.

His only loss is to Gray Maynard and Frankie has improved a ton since they first fought.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Just posting in here to state that I was wrong and Edgar fans were right. Edgar proved himself in a dominate showing. Penn didn't look right and I think he psyched himself out of the fight altogether. This isn't a cop out, it goes back to the mental weakness thread. For some reason Edgar seems to be planted squrely in that, "I can't beat him" category for Penn. For me watching the fight was like watching Vitor after losing to Couture. War Edgar for coming out and staying strong through it all!


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

HitOrGetHit said:


> *Take a look at his record. He has beaten Jim Miller, Mark Bocek, Spencer Fisher, Hermes Franca, Sean Sherk, he is one of the only people to have beaten Tyson Griffin, and he has 2 wins over BJ Penn.*


why is it out of all of this tyson griffin is the one worthy of him being "one of the only people to beat"?


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Syxx Paq said:


> why is it out of all of this tyson griffin is the one worthy of him being "one of the only people to beat"?


I put it like that because Edgar was the first one to beat tyson Griffin. From 2004-2007, Griffin was unstoppable. Even afterwards Griffin was unbeatable until running into Sean Sherk after going on a 5 fight win streak.

I didn't mean it to sound like the others weren't worthy.


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

I'm not sure i would have worded it so, i do recall frank being called "the only man to beat tyson griffin" once. I'm just wondering since tyson griffin isn't making franks win over him look very good lately.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Syxx Paq said:


> I'm not sure i would have worded it so, i do recall frank being called "the only man to beat tyson griffin" once. I'm just wondering since tyson griffin isn't making franks win over him look very good lately.


Well regardless, my point was that Edgar's record speaks for itself.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah that is definately true!:thumbsup:


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Missed the fight but damn am I glad that Edgar won. BJ didn't deserve the rematch and I am glad it backfired for the UFC.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah I think he should've fought against someone else at least once before he got another title shot against Edgar!:thumbsdown:


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## thrshr01 (Dec 30, 2007)

lol! I got neg repped for saying people need to stop making excuses and the reasoning for the neg rep is because he didn't look the same pre-fight. BJ always looks emotionless pre-fight and right before the ref says "go" on the first round. Stop hanging from his nads and accept the fact that Edgar is stylistically a bad match up for him, period! It was proven twice in a row.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well like I said the first fight was close and could've gone either way, where as the second fight was just plainly Edgar that night!


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> Well like I said the first fight was close and could've gone either way, where as the second fight was just plainly Edgar that night!


If you already said it, there's no need to repeat yourself in the same thread.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well some people don't seem to be registering that statement!


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

I don't really understand where these sentiments that Edgar dominated or that the fight was boring are coming from. It was a pretty close fight I scored the first two rounds 10-10 then Frankie started committing more and landing power shots from like the second half of the third on which won him the last 3 rounds. I wouldn't say Penn got dominated in any round though.

No one got rocked and there weren't any real close submissions but you have to remember who is fighting they are both very good grapplers and neither guy has ever been knocked out. Penn not even having a gameplan was pretty absurd he doesn't deserve to be champion if he is going to do dumb shit like he did in this fight. 

I still think Maynard beats the new and improved Frankie unless he gasses badly in the championship rounds and gets TKOed because of it.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Yes there is. Theres no excuse for not trying to finish your opponent.


Sorry but just because Edgar fights to win and not necessarily to win by stoppage dose not mean he would not take the opportunity to finish a fight if it presented itself. Its MMA not the WWE, if this is to be a sport then fighters SHOULD fight to win period and if that means by judges decision there is nothing wrong with that. 

BJ had every opportunity to step it up and end the fight but he failed, he was not good enough to beat Edgar that night or he would have done so.


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## thrshr01 (Dec 30, 2007)

I don't feel that you have to be rocked to get dominated. If your opponent is landing shots and his movement prevents you from landing your own. If he picks you up and slams you on the canvas and when you finally get a take down but he gets up 5 seconds later...in danger of getting finished or not, I'd say you got dominated.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

when u clearly lose 5 rounds to 0. I wouldnt say you are hanging in there lol.

The look in BJs eyes said it all to me, domination. He midaswell have been finished because Frankie took his soul long before the bell rang.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Its not like BJ was getting his ass kicked and was in danger, but he was definitely having his soul stepped on dramatically.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah it is very possible that mentally he had issues facing someone he had a stylistic problem against two times!


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