# UFC discussion from the past 3



## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Anyone got a site that doesn't require an account to see these fights? Mainly the Kongo and Crocop. Have only watched the Title fight.


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## sicc (Mar 4, 2007)

I know, I got off work and only got to see the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th of the hendo/rampage fight. I'm really pissed off.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

yeah i can't find them anywhere? I can always find PPV's but when its free its not around WTF is that all about. Let me know if you come across anything and I'll do the same.


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## Beeg (Nov 19, 2006)

UFC 75 fights


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## rogi (Aug 26, 2007)

sopcast and mmatv stream all ufc events and show them after for a few days. look it up.


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## jduber4 (Sep 4, 2006)

here is all UFC 75 enjoy!!!

Ultimate MMA Videos


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

thanks


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## chamillitary330 (Oct 15, 2006)

thanks for the links


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

*Rogan on UFC scoring*

Taken from the interview on the Hammill-Bisping fight:

_"At the time I honestly didn’t think the decision was that crazy. We see so many ****ing weird scorecards in the UFC that maybe I’m just getting used to it."_

I'm glad I'm not the only person to think the scoring is inconsistent... to say the least.


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## Foon (Jan 6, 2007)

Come on, i'm sick of hearing this. The last two rounds of that fight were close as hell. I mean shit, before hand everybody used to cry about people winning fights solely due to takedowns, and now everybodys crying that they don't win.


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

I should clarify, I'm not talking specifically about the Bisping-Hammill fight - or any other specific figt - just the scoring in general.

For whatever the reason, the current scoring system is prone to some really wild decisions. No, I don't know how to make it better. Yes, fighters should just finish the fight and avoid the decisions. 

(Alright, I do have ONE suggestion to make it better: Have an option for "Sorry, you both lose." Give the fighters a reason to excel, not just suck a little less than the other guy.)


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Gluteal Cleft said:


> I should clarify, I'm not talking specifically about the Bisping-Hammill fight - or any other specific figt - just the scoring in general.
> 
> For whatever the reason, the current scoring system is prone to some really wild decisions. No, I don't know how to make it better. Yes, fighters should just finish the fight and avoid the decisions.
> 
> (Alright, I do have ONE suggestion to make it better: Have an option for "Sorry, you both lose." Give the fighters a reason to excel, not just suck a little less than the other guy.)


That would be called a Draw my friend and while they do exist they happen very rarely


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## shake&bake (Dec 17, 2006)

curious how you all would feel about a scoring system based on all 3 rounds instead of a round by round basis. so basically they give the fight to whoever won the fight overall and not on a round by round basis. thought/ opionions?


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

Emericanaddict said:


> That would be called a Draw my friend and while they do exist they happen very rarely


 A draw still isn't a loss.


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## geoff0011 (May 27, 2007)

The judging should be changed to fully suit MMA. For example, if a person is on top and just lays there while the guy on the bottom is punching, trying for escapes, trying for submissions, the way it is now, unfortunetly, the guy on top is viewed as the winner of that round. Although he wasn't doing anything to his opponent other than just laying on him, he was in the more dominant position. 

This has become a more noticable thing in MMA. Because a lot of mathces can be won this way, if a fighter is losing the standup, some fighter just get the take down and lay on the guy. It's an easy way to win a fight if you are uncertain you can win the fight in any other way. I don't have anything against the 'wrestlers' of the sport. There are some great wrestlers who combine great takedowns with ground and pound and submissions. It's the people who have to get repeadily stoop up due to their inactivity in that position.

A lot of people seem to want the Pride judging style of overall damage done to the fighter per round, which is a better way of judging than what the UFC is dealing with, but still in my opinion isn't fully suited to MMA. I think the perfect judging style would have a combination of overall damage, activity/aggresivness, takedowns, reversals/escapes, just more of an overall impresivness of their fight by rounds. I'm sure there are more and better suggestions, but something DOES need to be done. Can't have this great sport going the way of boxing.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

Gluteal Cleft said:


> A draw still isn't a loss.


yea its what fighters like rashad depend on to save there weak ass little career record.


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## wafb (May 8, 2007)

Gluteal Cleft said:


> Taken from the interview on the Hammill-Bisping fight:
> 
> _"At the time I honestly didn’t think the decision was that crazy. We see so many ****ing weird scorecards in the UFC that maybe I’m just getting used to it."_
> 
> I'm glad I'm not the only person to think the scoring is inconsistent... to say the least.


I agree, if you saw the Guida vs Griffin fight you know that Guida won the 3rd round. Tyson was certain that he lost that fight that when Guida reached out for his hand Tyson just walked away looking dejected.


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## WarHERO (Dec 31, 2006)

Yes, scoring is really weird, they are not consistent and base it on the stupidest things. Judges is a UFC weak point.


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## hollando (Apr 11, 2007)

come on now man....even you have to admit that matt dominated the standup lets not be silly here


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## The Don (May 25, 2006)

Gluteal Cleft said:


> A draw still isn't a loss.


but it is not a win either:thumb02:


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## The Don (May 25, 2006)

In my opinion I was down right shocked when they announced Bisping as the winner of that fight. I was wondering if the Refs were watching something different


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## capt_america (Apr 16, 2007)

rogan has some pretty honest scoring IMO.. . 
Regarding that bisping win, its expected.. they fought in England. what do you expect. the only way for Hammil to win that one is by stoppage or sub.


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## mma17 (Jun 4, 2007)

Gluteal Cleft said:


> (Alright, I do have ONE suggestion to make it better: Have an option for "Sorry, you both lose." Give the fighters a reason to excel, not just suck a little less than the other guy.)


They call that a draw.


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## fan4life (Oct 4, 2007)

Here's a thought post the score after each round then the fighter knows where he sits. Ring/cage type fights aren't known until the end! Think about it could make for more exciting fights. These are the only sports you have no idea. It could revolutionize the sport. Everyother sports the score in know all the way through. Put a large scoreboard above the octagon the judges submit scores into a computer and tallied scored is shown above now the fighter thats down knows he has to give more.


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## The Don (May 25, 2006)

fan4life said:


> Here's a thought post the score after each round then the fighter knows where he sits. Ring/cage type fights aren't known until the end! Think about it could make for more exciting fights. These are the only sports you have no idea. It could revolutionize the sport. Everyother sports the score in know all the way through. Put a large scoreboard above the octagon the judges submit scores into a computer and tallied scored is shown above now the fighter thats down knows he has to give more.


thats actually kinda interesting. A fighter may think he is ahead in his mind but be behind by the judges and kick it up the next round. Fighters would be pushing themselves more.


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## name goes here (Aug 15, 2007)

Or they might give up if they're behind.

You could judge by damage - this would also appeal to simple casual audience. Plus its the closest to the intention - simulating a fight. When time is up its like the point in the fight where the police show up and the winner is the one who spends the lest time in hospital.


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## Spitfire (Oct 16, 2006)

fan4life said:


> Here's a thought post the score after each round then the fighter knows where he sits. Ring/cage type fights aren't known until the end! Think about it could make for more exciting fights. These are the only sports you have no idea. It could revolutionize the sport. Everyother sports the score in know all the way through. Put a large scoreboard above the octagon the judges submit scores into a computer and tallied scored is shown above now the fighter thats down knows he has to give more.


That's an excellent idea. The only problem is I can see a fighter barely winning the first round and (knowing this for sure) they lay n pray the next two rounds for the decision.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*Mayweather jumping to MMA?*

Found this on ESPN.com thought you guys might enjoy. Figured I would post here since this is where most people go. If a moderator wants to move it that is fine.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=3165552&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos1

I think it would be interesting to see it happen but don't think it will.

BTW what isn't Mark Cuban trying to get involved in.


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## NavyChief (Oct 10, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Found this on ESPN.com thought you guys might enjoy. Figured I would post here since this is where most people go. If a moderator wants to move it that is fine.
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=3165552&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos1
> 
> ...


I agree it would be an interesting transition. 

But when you read a quote from the linked article *"If I said there's a guaranteed $30 million payday, Floyd would be lacing them up," Cuban said* you gotta think that he is not getting into an MMA ring/cage/octagon anytime soon. Who in the world of MMA is gonna guarantee ANY fighter a $30 million dollar payday?

And why would Mayweather take anything less? He can receive virtually whatever he asks for in boxing.


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## valheruking (May 13, 2007)

Unholy FD3S said:


> he wont because he wont be getting paid well at all.
> 
> maybe 30k lol


Mark Cuban = money.


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## NavyChief (Oct 10, 2007)

valheruking said:


> Mark Cuban = money.



Mark Cuban ain't gonna guarantee anyone a $30 million dollar payday and the only orgs that could maybe pony up that kind of purse is the UFC or Pride and you just KNOW that ain't gonna happen.


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## Nate6000 (Mar 31, 2007)

Very intresting, He is obviously a great athlete so i dont think it would take to long to get some sort of a ground game and take down defense. Hopefully if he has sucess he will eventually come to the ufc.


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## livewire42 (Sep 19, 2007)

why do i have the feeling that if this does happen cuban will set him up with some can he can run through? that being said, i don't think any mma organization can offer any fighter $30 million for a fight, even though mark cuban is made of money.


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## Acoustic (Feb 4, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Found this on ESPN.com thought you guys might enjoy. Figured I would post here since this is where most people go. If a moderator wants to move it that is fine.
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=3165552&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos1
> 
> ...


Mayweather is so loaded that he could put Chuck Liddell, Randy Couture, Anderson Silva and Matt Hughes on his payroll for one year and still hold double digit millions after just two boxing matches...HOW COULD MMA AFFORD TO PAY HIM?

MMA pays peanuts relative to what the man earns...Mayweather in MMA is just not happening.


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## Acoustic (Feb 4, 2007)

...unless, of course, Mayweather is venturing into MMA as a long term, profit-sharing partner with Mark Cuban.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

I think everyone knows boxing is much more of a moneymaker than MMA at this time. But, with everyhtiing that has recently happened in terms of the feud between boxers and mixed martial artists, this could be the biggest thing in the fighting world since well, Mayweather vs. De La Hoya. Mayweather is the name that beats the names in boxing. He has the mouth of Tito and the ability of BJ. The guy is a boxing stud and would bring many of the boxing fans over in hopes to see him crush a mixed martial artist. Then of course, you know the MMA fans would be watchiing thinking he has no chance to beat a guy (that is good). I think Cuban knows that he will have to put him against someone that people know or like or has ability. Hopefully all 3. But, that being said this won't happen and if it does. Mayweather will be given a cakewalk or a tough guy. If he loses to the tough guy it is just an example of him being old, new to the sport, and out of his element. If he wins, well he disproves a lot of people's opinions about fighters and boxers. I couldn't imagine a more entertaining fight than Mayweather vs. Urijah Faber or Jens Pulver or BJ Penn or Roger Huerta or Frankie Edgar. He would have to fight a light weight or feather weight though.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

Already posted in the General MMA Section.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*BJ Penn Bandwagon...*

Hope it is big enough for everyone. I have been a big fan of his for many years now. His talent and ability is almost unmatched. I have seen things from him in almost all of his fights that amazed me. If Sherk's fans can start a thread to appreciate him, then we, as Penn supporters need to unite to appreciate the one and only Baby Jay.

War Penn.


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## G-S-P (Sep 1, 2007)

I've supported BJ since he KO'd Uno in their first bout. What amazes me most is how talented, and well-versed he can be in any given situation. His fight with GSP was awesome until he gassed out midway through the fight, however as evident, that has been BJ's biggest demon in MMA, next to taking a lazy approach in training. He showcased a near flawless performance against Joe Daddy, by picking his shots and eventually sinking in the RNC.

Not many guys in MMA are as complete as BJ, with exception to GSP, Anderson, and Kid.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

G-S-P said:


> I've supported BJ since he KO'd Uno in their first bout. What amazes me most is how talented, and well-versed he can be in any given situation. His fight with GSP was awesome until he gassed out midway through the fight, however as evident, that has been BJ's biggest demon in MMA, next to taking a lazy approach in training. He showcased a near flawless performance against Joe Daddy, by picking his shots and eventually sinking in the RNC.
> 
> Not many guys in MMA are as complete as BJ, with exception to GSP, Anderson, and Kid.


I agree, but BJ is probably more complete than Norifumi. I would love to see those guys fight...talk about exciting. BJ always amzes me with his fearlessness and confidence. Not many people nowadays going out and fighting 50 pounds above his natural weight.


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## AlexPR123 (Dec 31, 2006)

WAR BJ!!! :thumbsup:


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## jasonc84 (Nov 9, 2007)

I'm all aboard. BJ has always been one of my fav fighters. I have even more respect for him after reading his book, he doesn't avoid talking about his loses and is even the first to admit that even the injury loss to Matt Hueghs was his own fault and he should have come in better shape. He has been talking some trash about sherk lately but in general i think he's a pretty stand up guy and always shows respect for his opponents. He even burried the hatchet it seemed with pulver after their fight.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

jasonc84 said:


> I'm all aboard. BJ has always been one of my fav fighters. I have even more respect for him after reading his book, he doesn't avoid talking about his loses and is even the first to admit that even the injury loss to Matt Hueghs was his own fault and he should have come in better shape. He has been talking some trash about sherk lately but in general i think he's a pretty stand up guy and always shows respect for his opponents. He even burried the hatchet it seemed with pulver after their fight.


i completely agree here. He always accepts blame and always shows respect. I think this whole deal with Sherk is just to sell tickets. I guarantee after the fight that they will hug and BJ will give him respect in win or loss. Maybe he wil kiss him too.


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## jasonc84 (Nov 9, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> i completely agree here. He always accepts blame and always shows respect. I think this whole deal with Sherk is just to sell tickets. I guarantee after the fight that they will hug and BJ will give him respect in win or loss. Maybe he wil kiss him too.


Lately i'm starting to think Dana is putting fighters up to this whole "bad blood thing" there seems to be more shit talking than usual. Who knows though i'm pretty sure even if BJ loses he'll admit sherk was the better man that night. I also admire that he was willing to share so much of his MMA knowledge in a book, now i do realize he makes money off of it but thats something i'd almost expect from him when he was retired.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

jasonc84 said:


> Lately i'm starting to think Dana is putting fighters up to this whole "bad blood thing" there seems to be more shit talking than usual. Who knows though i'm pretty sure even if BJ loses he'll admit sherk was the better man that night. I also admire that he was willing to share so much of his MMA knowledge in a book, now i do realize he makes money off of it but thats something i'd almost expect from him when he was retired.


Yeah I kind of relate it to poker pros coming out with their books. I guess if you can get your opponents thinking the same way you do though it is a huge advantage. Especially since all you have to do is change up your thought process and you know what they think you are going to be trying to do. When you come out with something different that just throws them off. A guy with BJ's talent could thrive after revealing his knowledge like that.


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## roboyobo (May 28, 2007)

I'm glad this thread got started. BJ is one of the most exciting fighters out there. He never is afraid to speak his mind. I dont consider it smack talk when he can back up what he says. "Sean Sherk you're dead!" hahahaha

WAR PENN!!!


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## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

I'm definitely fully on board.

Am I the only one that thinks BJ can win a decision over Sherk? :dunno:

I said this in a previous post but even an out of shape BJ Penn can outclass someone with his pure skill and win the first 2 rounds. If BJ's in shape he could easily take rounds 1, 2, and 3. 

Even if BJ gasses at the end of round 2...If Sherk is going to institute his LnP strategy that he typically uses against BJJ fighters and controls but doesn't do much if any damage from the top (which is HIGHLY likely), then BJ might be able to steal on the last 3 rounds with one or two deep submission attempts, even if he doesn't finish the fight. 

Either way there's your 3 rounds to 2 UD for Penn. I just had to bring up those very likely scenarios because I'm tired of reading about how "if the fight goes into the 4th and 5th then guaranteed Sherk will win." I don't agree.

Also I think if any of the rounds are really close to score, I don't think the Athletic Commission appointed judges are going to lean the way of a guy fresh off of a positive test. JMO.


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## _LB_ (Jan 20, 2008)

I've always been on his bandwagon. Gottah support da hawaiians. raise01:raise01:raise01:raise01:raise01:raise01:


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## nickman9000 (Sep 7, 2006)




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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

I have been on the bandwagon for a long time and have no plans to ever leave it.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*More weight classes??*

How many people out there think the UFC needs more weight classes? I think Rogan mentioned this recently, but I have been silently wanting this to happen since the merger.


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## ToeZup (Jan 7, 2008)

I am 150% with you if that's possible. lol
They need a Featherweight and a Bantamweight division.
Why not? The little guys put on a great show. 
There are very exciting and talented fighters in those divisions. Hey, the WEC is doing it.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

I say this because there are just so many fighters and not all of them can excel or compete at the weight divisions set up. My only hesitation to this, is that it makes the sport very similar to boxing, in that it would produce many champions. Still one belt per class though which is a good thing, unlike boxing where there are multiple belts at each weight class.

I voted for starting over and having divisions 10 lbs apart.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

You don't want to many weight classes or else it will turn into boxing, where no one knows who the champs are. Thats one of the biggest problems with boxing right now, to many weight classes and no marketability due to to many belts/weight classes. Having 10 weight classes would really hurt the UFC IMO. Dana won't folow the same path has boxing so I don't have to worry about them having 10 weight classes.

Though I would like to see the UFC add a 145 weight division.


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## ToeZup (Jan 7, 2008)

Sorry ZZ, I came in here before the poll was finished.
I like your satrt over idea. Even without the bantamweights in there that looks like a good setup. 
145, 155, 165, 175, 185, 195, 205, 225+
mlsman23 made a good point to though.


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## Cartheron (Sep 5, 2007)

I don't think they should split up any weight classes and they should keep them as they are now. Nothing wrong with adding extra lower weight classes though. The only problem with adding extra (not splitting existing) weight classes is there are only so many fights per event. They would either have to start having more events or more fights on each card so the fighters get to fight more than twice a year.


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## DropKick (Apr 19, 2007)

I can see the argument to be made for more wieght classes, but it's not something I'm in favor of. One of the biggest problems with boxing is that nobody knows who the champions are, and it seems like every guy out there held a championship belt at some point. Having to many wieght classes kind of makes the sport harder to follow, it also cheapens the accomplishment of winning a title as the talent is more deluded. A lot of guys in the UFC are cutting 15 - 25lbs to fight at their weight class anyway. So I don't really see the need for some of the in between classes.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Cartheron said:


> I don't think they should split up any weight classes and they should keep them as they are now. Nothing wrong with adding extra lower weight classes though. The only problem with adding extra (not splitting existing) weight classes is there are only so many fights per event. They would either have to start having more events or more fights on each card so the fighters get to fight more than twice a year.


That is kind of the reason for more weight classes. That is where I am coming from. All of these great fighters in the LW, WW and LHW divisions have to wait for their turn. And for many fighters something goes drastically wrong and their turn never comes. I.e. Karo Parysian, Din Thomas, Forrest Griffin (though now he is getting one). When the champion of a division only fights twice a year because of TV show obligations or injuries or whatever, it kind of hurts the whole division. But I certainly respect where ou are coming from.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

DropKick said:


> I can see the argument to be made for more wieght classes, but it's not something I'm in favor of. One of the biggest problems with boxing is that nobody knows who the champions are, and it seems like every guy out there held a championship belt at some point. Having to many wieght classes kind of makes the sport harder to follow, it also cheapens the accomplishment of winning a title as the talent is more deluded. A lot of guys in the UFC are cutting 15 - 25lbs to fight at their weight class anyway. So I don't really see the need for some of the in between classes.


Exactly my point, these guys wouldn't need to cut 20+ lbs anymore. And the whole boxing thing is different. They have like 11 divisions and 4 belts per division. With one, unified belt per division it certanly wouldn't cheapen the belt. 
Yes of course it would dilute the talent that is the point. There is too much talent right now in many divisions. This would help those guys fight more often and make names for themselves. I guarantee you the fighters would approve. Fighters like Bisping, Swick, Lauzon, Pulver, Fitch, Parysian, etc. They would all have more opportunities to earn a belt. And fans owuld get more opportunities to see championship fights with big time competitors.


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## amedeers (Apr 23, 2007)

Cartheron said:


> I don't think they should split up any weight classes and they should keep them as they are now. Nothing wrong with adding extra lower weight classes though. The only problem with adding extra (not splitting existing) weight classes is there are only so many fights per event. They would either have to start having more events or more fights on each card so the fighters get to fight more than twice a year.


I agree. Adding more weight classes will only bring in more fighters. There aren't enough events for the amount of fighters they have under contract already. They would have to add more events and i'm in favore of that.:thumb02:


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## Cartheron (Sep 5, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> That is kind of the reason for more weight classes. That is where I am coming from. All of these great fighters in the LW, WW and LHW divisions have to wait for their turn. And for many fighters something goes drastically wrong and their turn never comes. I.e. Karo Parysian, Din Thomas, Forrest Griffin (though now he is getting one). When the champion of a division only fights twice a year because of TV show obligations or injuries or whatever, it kind of hurts the whole division. But I certainly respect where ou are coming from.


How will they fight more often by just splitting the weight classes up? They will still have the same amount of fighters, just split up. They will still have (for the sake of argument) 16 cards per year, with 10 fights per card. That's 160 fights. If you split up weight classes it's still 160 fights per year. *The only way they will fight more often is either by having more events and/or more fights per card.* Which I am all for by the way. ;] 

The reality tv show is totally different ball game on holding up fighters and one which I don't agree with either. Until the UFC gains a real ranking system fighters will continue waiting their turn until they are marketable to an audience. These are problems with the way the UFC is run, not with the weight classes. 

Talent pools at each division would get diluted. I like how it is at the moment because there is a significant difference between the weights. With a greater difference comes a bigger catchment for talent. How pants would it be if there were only really two fighters at each weight class who had a chance of getting the belt? You could then say, "But the other top tier fighters would be able to cut from higher division to make that weight and challenge them, or put on 10lbs easier from the one below." Then it's effectively the old classes fighting again. 

Then you have to think about it from the fighters perspective. They want to fight the best to get the belt, not the best in a smaller percentile.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

Do we really want this to turn into boxing where its hard to even remember who holds the belt in all theses different Division. The UFC would have like 10 different Champs (watering down the meaning) and then you would have the different champs in smaller org's. It would severely water down the sport.

The only Divisions the UFC needs to EVER think of adding are 135, 145, and Super Heavyweight. After that, thats all the weight classes they need.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I picked a feather weight although I would love to see some 265+ freakshow fights from time to time as well, they dont need one every PPV but would 3 to 4 freakshows a year be asking to much???


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## MalkyBoy (Nov 14, 2007)

Im totally in favour of a FW division but i liek having stacked divisions so I cant see the point of splitting existing divisions. The MW and HW divisions are so thin as it is.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

ToeZup said:


> I am 150% with you if that's possible. lol
> They need a Featherweight and a Bantamweight division.
> Why not? The little guys put on a great show.
> There are very exciting and talented fighters in those divisions. Hey, the WEC is doing it.


Since the WEC is a Zuffa company, maybe they're testing it there first to see how it goes and then they'll add it to teh UFC?

But also, some weight classes aer really thin as it is as far is top fighters goes... :\


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

No, I really don't wanna see any more divisions. More divisions mean weaker matchups .. I wanna see Anderson Silva fight Dan Henderson, not Anderson Silva a dominating champ at 176 with no competition, Franklin dominating everyone at 185 with no competition, Hendo dominating everyone at 195 with no competition etc. The weight classes restrict the matchups we can see anyway, why restrict them further? The only reason they're there is for the fighters health so they don't have to fight dudes 100 lbs bigger, but to take it to a smaller and smaller divisions when the current ones are holding up fine is ridiculous. What's next? Separarate divisions for 180 lbs, 181 lbs, 182 lbs, 183 lbs .... heck, every mediocre fighter could find a division to dominate in. You should be able to fight a good variety of competition around 15 lbs your own natural weight to be called a champion IMO. 

As for a Featherweight division or below, that might be better, but I personally have no interest in it. Anything below LW tends to be too scrawny for me to respect or get excited about.. specially like flyweight or bantamweight. woohoo you're the king of beating up starving 125 lbs midgets, but half the random guys from the audience could probably come up and kick your ass. There's a reason people don't follow the pee-wee leagues as much as the Major. FW should be good though, there's some decent talent there, and since the LW has been the most exciting division of the UFC this year, FW might be a nice addition, although I haven't followed it much to date.

A SHW division might be nice, but there might not be enough talent to fill it up .. heck, there's hardly enough in HW. Plus the fights might get slow as hell. But I can see freakshow SHW fights having sort of a WWE type draw. 

Overall though, the UFC isn't gonna put more fights on their cards .. more divisions will only clutter things up and give us bigger lag times between matches from every division, and that means less of our favorite fighters and being forced to watch weaker matchups.


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## BloodyKnuckles (Jan 30, 2008)

I don't think they should add a lot more weight classes, just throw in Featherweights and mayble split up the drop from 185-170.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I'm not for more weight classes but I am for finding a solution to a major problem in MMA and thats guys cutting 15+lbs for fights. I think they should have a 2nd weigh in the day of the fight were fighters need to be within 5 lbs of the contracted weight so that we don't have Rich Franklin weighing 205 walking into to a 185 fight. Or Sean Sherk weighing over 170 walking into a fight at 155.


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## slugfest (Dec 31, 2006)

I would like to see 140lbs added and thats it. I like how tight it is now. Of course we need more belt defending matches, perhaps they could implement a rule of the champ fighting three times per year minimum, if he can't defend it hes not a champ.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> I'm not for more weight classes but I am for finding a solution to a major problem in MMA and thats guys cutting 15+lbs for fights. I think they should have a 2nd weigh in the day of the fight were fighters need to be within 5 lbs of the contracted weight so that we don't have Rich Franklin weighing 205 walking into to a 185 fight. Or Sean Sherk weighing over 170 walking into a fight at 155.


I agree .. the whole "weigh ins" thing right now is a joke. It's more about beating the system than actual weight, like how much can I sweat off in the sauna and completely dehydrate myself for an hour, then not give a shit and be back to 20 lbs above. It's more about the strategy of your fitness trainer than your actual weight, and people that don't sweat out to a ridiculous degree are at a disadvantage.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

I kind of like the start over with a weight class every 10lbs. It is simpler and more streamlined. 

The gap between MW and LHW is stupid. What a seemingly random set of weights. 

I don't think it's really a big deal... but one every 10lbs would be ideal.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Exactly their really aren't any weightclasses right now because 155 is full of guys who fight weighing 170, 170 is full of guys who fight at 185, 185 is full of guys who fight at 200, and 200 is full of HW's.


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## LeeM (Nov 23, 2007)

I like to see a 145 division added. That's it.


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## Saiyan3s (Oct 5, 2007)

"Sean Sherk you're dead" BJ Penn


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## All_In (Aug 23, 2007)

SonofJor-El said:


> Am I the only one that thinks BJ can win a decision over Sherk? :dunno:
> 
> I said this in a previous post but even an out of shape BJ Penn can outclass someone with his pure skill and win the first 2 rounds. If BJ's in shape he could easily take rounds 1, 2, and 3.QUOTE]
> 
> I would have to disagree here. BJ is darn near impossible to stop. But if he shoots his wad (ala Randy) I think Sherk can definitely finish him. I don't think he can put BJ to sleep in any way, but he can use his strength to muscle BJ into a position in which the ref is forced to stop the fight - Hughes vs BJ II.


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## UseOf_A_Weapon (Aug 6, 2007)

the first time i saw BJ fight was his obliteration of Caol Uno. I've been a diehard, undoubting fan ever since. event through the tough loss to hughes and the stolen decision with st. pierre. but it looks like hes got that fire back and I think he's gonna be the UFC posterboy before long. he certainly doesnt get enough promotion as it stands.


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## aGenius (Feb 5, 2007)

Penn is going to win against Sherk, no problem. I don't see it going past the 3rd. BJ is easily the best LW ever. I don't see many guys being able to give him a challenge at 155. If I was BJ, I would be shouting for the UFC to bring it on. Fight 3 more times this year, and then fight GSP in the new year.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Best p4p fighter in the world :thumbsup: Dudes a BEAST! I showed my mother the fight against joe Daddy and she was like OMG this guy is an ANIMAL, I cant belive he licked of the blood!!!:laugh:


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## T-man (Jan 18, 2008)

jdun11 said:


> Best p4p fighter in the world :thumbsup: Dudes a BEAST! QUOTE]
> 
> couldnt have said it better, he is pure class!!!
> 
> ...


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## T-man (Jan 18, 2008)

messed up that quote btw^^^


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## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

All_In_GSP said:


> I would have to disagree here. BJ is darn near impossible to stop. But if he shoots his wad (ala Randy) I think Sherk can definitely finish him. I don't think he can put BJ to sleep in any way, but he can use his strength to muscle BJ into a position in which the ref is forced to stop the fight - Hughes vs BJ II.


For Sherk to put BJ in that position:

- BJ would have to be totally gassed. If that happens it would be very late in the fight and Sherk would have taken a lot of damage himself by then. I think Sherk would be too beaten up to finish.

- Sherk would actually have to work to improve his position, which is something he has consistently shown he is AFRAID to do against BJJ black belts. 

Outside of a fluke punch, Sherk is not finishing BJ.


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## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

As a former resident of the Big Island, Hawaii BJ is one of the reasons I got into MMA. So yes I'm on the bandwagon.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

SonofJor-El said:


> - BJ would have to be totally gassed. If that happens it would be very late in the fight and Sherk would have taken a lot of damage himself by then. I think Sherk would be too beaten up to finish.


When has Sherk ever been too beaten up to finish a fight? GSP...yeah thats it. He went the distance with Hughes, took plenty of damaging elbows from Florian and kept going, and withstood the knees of Franca and kept going. Sherk doesn't get beaten up too bad in fights to where he can't finish.



SonofJor-El said:


> - Sherk would actually have to work to improve his position, which is something he has consistently shown he is AFRAID to do against BJJ black belts.
> 
> Outside of a fluke punch, Sherk is not finishing BJ.


Franca? He passed his guard like it was butter...all 5 rounds. Granted, BJ's guard is MUCH better than Hermes' but to say Sherk is afraid to move positions is a joke. He can finish BJ if he gets into a dominant position, much like the Hughes fight.

I don't think he will, but he definitely could.


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## Ebc_Kyle (Sep 24, 2006)

BJ is the man, that's all that needs to be said.


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## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

kds13 said:


> When has Sherk ever been too beaten up to finish a fight? GSP...yeah thats it. He went the distance with Hughes, took plenty of damaging elbows from Florian and kept going, and withstood the knees of Franca and kept going. Sherk doesn't get beaten up too bad in fights to where he can't finish.


I think we have a misunderstanding. I didn't mean Sherk wouldn't be able to finish as in make to it to the end. I meant Sherk would be too beaten up to finish BJ after 3-4 rounds of BJ's hands nailing him the face. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. That was my bad. 



> Franca? He passed his guard like it was butter...all 5 rounds. Granted, BJ's guard is MUCH better than Hermes' but to say Sherk is afraid to move positions is a joke. He can finish BJ if he gets into a dominant position, much like the Hughes fight.
> 
> I don't think he will, but he definitely could.


He passed Franca's guard but did what with it? Nothing. Franca wasn't even hurt and Sherk didn't even try to finish Franca. :thumbsdown:

Sean Sherk, "I was not imbressed by yer pufourmence."


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## nickman9000 (Sep 7, 2006)

He needs to learn how to "Posture UP" as they say.


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## gdog43 (Jun 20, 2007)

145 could be added- but wouldn't be keen on any more than that. 5-6 divisions is plenty.

Urijah Faber vs Jens Pulver
Urijah Faber vs. Kid Yamamoto

Those fights could easily be the main event of any UFC PPV


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

I would just like to see a 145 class and also a 135 class for me when I am good enough to fight in the UFC


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## CroCopPride (Jan 13, 2007)

i think its fine


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## brief (Nov 19, 2006)

More weight classes please. I prefer the lighter weight classes to the heavier ones, but that being said, I would even like to see the UFC add a Super heavyweight class. The smaller guys have better fights, but still I like getting my popcorn and sitting back and watching a good freak show of Super heavyweights. I want Butterbean to grab Zulu and run into the cage wall, just to see if it stand the pressure.


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## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

I voted "other" in the poll because I think only think 2 changes are needed; everything else is fine the way it is. A 145# division would definitely be a great thing. Those guys are great on WEC. I also think they need to either add a Super HW division or increase the 265 limit. Once people start hitting 6'5"+ and they've been weight training for years (in conjunction with MMA of course), that 265 might be a little low. HWs are supposed to be the biggest dogs in the yard and shouldn't have to cut weight. JMO.


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## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

I'd just want to see them have the weigh ins at the time of the fight. Like, when they come out to have their vaseline put on and be checked, they just stand on a scale and everyone makes sure that the fighter is at the right weight. That way, we would actually have fighters fighting in their weightclass, rather than bulking up for like 3 days straight after the weigh ins.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Biowza said:


> I'd just want to see them have the weigh ins at the time of the fight. Like, when they come out to have their vaseline put on and be checked, they just stand on a scale and everyone makes sure that the fighter is at the right weight. That way, we would actually have fighters fighting in their weightclass, rather than bulking up for like 3 days straight after the weigh ins.


That sounds great and everything, but what happens when a guy like Lutter doesn't make weight. Do we scrap the fight or have a guy on the waiting list? Seems a little unfair to the fighter that made weight and the fans that expected to see a certian fight.


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## looney liam (Jun 22, 2007)

the only new weight class that could work right now is 145. if the ufc made a 145 weight class you'd see quite a few guys drop down from lightweight to fight there. franky edgar, kenny florian and roger huerta could all make the cut, i'm sure theres alot more. then ufc could merge some of the wec talent into the division and you'd have a great 145 division without hurting the 155 division too much (lets face it, the 155 division is very stacked right now).

i would like to see a 220 division in the future, it'd stop the bulk of these david vs goliath mismatches we've been seeing in the heavyweight division. it's not a good idea to get this untill we see more heavyweight talent out there. although, i'm sure it'd entice a few of the current lhw fighters to move up weights. chuck, tito and forrest griffin etc could all move up to 220 and would't be all that small.


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## AmRiT (Apr 23, 2007)

I think they should have a 145lbs weigt class, they can get people like Tyson Griffin, Manny Gamburyan to drop down and bring in Pulver, Faber and Kid.

I think they should add a 225lbs class, and limit HW to 280lbs.

220 will be much better for the likes of Vera, Cro Cop, Werdum and Arlovski


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

i'm only for adding a 145 divison, nothing else....

having 5 or 6 champions is much better than having 10...the competition is better in the divisions w/ more guys in it


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*Better fights, UFC or Pride?*

I used to be the biggest Pride fan, rarely visited this section of the forum, because most of my time online was spent in the Pride section. Though they always seemed to coddle their champions and not really have set #1 contender. If you think I am incorrect in this view, I certainly understand. But, towards the end, we always seemed to be asking for fights that we never got except in the tournaments. 

My question is, do you think the UFC provides better match-ups? Especially now that they have the majority of the top talent in the world. Or did Pride?


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I think they both had great fights and they both had crap fights. The UFC missed out on some of Fedor's greatest fights and amazing finishes. Pride missed out on Tito when he was at his best, Liddell (except for one tournament), Couture being the upset king. Pride had tons of talent, both organizations did, and I really think all threads like this one only do one thing, showed which organization had your favorite fighters.

Personally I am just more upset that the UFC missed a lot of Prides good talent and we didn't end up with pools as deep as we thought we would.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Yeah, I am too upset about the UFC not being able to sign all the fighters.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*Help anyone*

I am trying to download some UFC's with torrents. Never done this before and it is maxxing out at about 35kb/s. ETA is like 1.5 days. Anyone know what I can fix, I have tried firewall, more peers, port forwarding. Anyone know anything specific to speed being so slow or is this how long it should take.


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## mercom (Jun 16, 2007)

the higher your upload the higher your download, and this shouldnt be here


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

yeah i know this shouldn't be here, but it was about the UFC and i figured somoen could help me out. Most of you guys know a lot more about PC stuff than me. 

How do I get it higher?


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## capt_america (Apr 16, 2007)

try some torrents that has more seeders compared to leechers.. then on the preferences dont set a limit on your download and upload..


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

If you're on ComCraptic, you're kinda screwed. They actively send out forged reset packets for torrent traffic to disrupt your flow.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*Is it too early?*

Look I like Lauzon just as much as anyone else, but isn't it a bit early for him to be fighting agianst Kenflo for arguably the top contender spot?

I think Huerta and Edgar have proven more. I think a smarter match-up would have been Lauzon vs. Guida. Some people might think Guida is a better fighter than Kenflo, but Kenflo has really only looked bad in his fight against Sherk. Kenflo is by far the smartest fighter i have seen and he should be right up there as a #1 contender with a win.

Thoughts????


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Look I like Lauzon just as much as anyone else, but isn't it a bit early for him to be fighting agianst Kenflo for arguably the top contender spot?
> 
> I think Huerta and Edgar have proven more. I think a smarter match-up would have been Lauzon vs. Guida. Some people might think Guida is a better fighter than Kenflo, but Kenflo has really only looked bad in his fight against Sherk. Kenflo is by far the smartest fighter i have seen and he should be right up there as a #1 contender with a win.
> 
> Thoughts????


I don't think in such a stacked division as LW this is gonna be a continuing problem. Is it fair Edgar is fighting Maynard on the same night? I think Lauzon a guy that has more fights then KenFlo and beat a former champ in Pulver is a great fight for Kenny to showcase how good he is. MMA math is tough to do and I think you're kind of doing that...Nate Diaz just beat Alvin Robinson, a guy KenFlo tore through a couple of months ago, should Nate be fighting Edgar and not Maynard? Who really knows...


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Yeah, but Alvin Robinson (which by the way is MMA Math) is no where near as good as KenFlo. I don't think I was doing any MMA math (I try not to do that). I was just saying Lauzon really hasn't proven himself as much as KenFlo, Huerta, or Edgar have. I think this was not a smart match-up. I think, right now, there is a four way tie for the #1 spot at the title in the LW division and Lsuzon is not in that conversation (Huerta, Edgar, KenFLo, and Griffin). Even though Griffin lost to Edgar he has still done more than Lauzon. 

That is all I was saying, though when I reread it, it wasn't clear.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Kenflo is a beast and should beat Lauzon. But this is a very good matchup. The fans know both fighters and will have people interested. I think the Edgar vs Maynard fight is stupider.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

I just remember when the UFC would match-up its top fighters to make a true #1 contender. It seems like they are taking the same path as boxing of late. I want to see the match-ups that provide a clear title contender not a speculated one.


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## silent_nick (Feb 3, 2008)

I love Kenny Florian but "KenFlo" has to be the stupidest nickname.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

silent_nick said:


> I love Kenny Florian but "KenFlo" has to be the stupidest nickname.


I don't know, I think it suits him. It is certianly not suggestive of him being a bad ass or anything, probably one of those nicknames he got at 14 from his friends when they were all f'd up and it just seemed unnatural for him to choose something else. 

I got the nickname Danny Newnan (from Caddyshack) under those circumstances (though I probably wouldn't use that as my fight name). Just a theory (probably not accurate).


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Yeah, but Alvin Robinson (which by the way is MMA Math) is no where near as good as KenFlo. I don't think I was doing any MMA math (I try not to do that). I was just saying Lauzon really hasn't proven himself as much as KenFlo, Huerta, or Edgar have. I think this was not a smart match-up. *I think, right now, there is a four way tie for the #1 spot at the title in the LW division and Lsuzon is not in that conversation (Huerta, Edgar, KenFLo, and Griffin). *Even though Griffin lost to Edgar he has still done more than Lauzon.
> 
> That is all I was saying, though when I reread it, it wasn't clear.


Griffin I can see but not Edgar or Huerta sorry but that is a huge disservice to Sean Sherk the former champ and guy that killed Florian and Lauzon a guy that has beaten Pulver, a former champ, and run through some tougher comp. IMO than Edgar or Huerta. Furthermore, Roger's out finishing up school and making a movie so he is sort of a null point. I would say Lauzon, Florian, Sherk, are top guys right now. With Aurelio nipping at the heels if he beats Fisher.



ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> I just remember when the UFC would match-up its top fighters to make a true #1 contender. *It seems like they are taking the same path as boxing of late.* I want to see the match-ups that provide a clear title contender not a speculated one.


And yet you think a guy with an 8-0 record should be up for a title shot? Yeah thats not like boxing.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I think the fight makes sense, Ken Flo isnt getting a title shot anytime soon as Penn/Sherk is next, in the meantime he is being put into a fight I think the UFC figures will sell tickets but also one that they believe Ken will win, they are using the same technique for Edgar/Maynard in that Florian and Edgar have an opportunity to look really strong and present themselves as logical contenders while also giving Maynard and Lauzon an opportunity to prove that they can be considered in the same breathe as the top LW in the UFC.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

IcemanCometh said:


> Griffin I can see but not Edgar or Huerta sorry but that is a huge disservice to Sean Sherk the former champ and guy that killed Florian and Lauzon a guy that has beaten Pulver, a former champ, and run through some tougher comp. IMO than Edgar or Huerta. Furthermore, Roger's out finishing up school and making a movie so he is sort of a null point. I would say Lauzon, Florian, Sherk, are top guys right now. With Aurelio nipping at the heels if he beats Fisher.
> 
> 
> And yet you think a guy with an 8-0 record should be up for a title shot? Yeah thats not like boxing.


Jesus Christ, what is it with people misinterpretting my post today? It is clearly obvious Sherk (and Penn) have been eliminated from this conversation as they both are scheduled to fight for the title. I never said any of those guys deserved a title shot, only a shot against one another for the title shot. 

Since when did Tyson Griffin and Spencer Fisher become less impressive than Jens Pulver (keyword former champion), Brandon Melendez, and Jason Reinhardt? Edgar has had good wins against better competition in the UFC to this point. And Huerta (though I forgot he was on hold) has beaten Guida. Couple that with the impressive wins against everyone else (all average, none stellar), and I think he has done just as much, if not more, than Lauzon. 

I think this is White's way of rewarding Lauzon for always looking for the finish.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I really think Edgar's ready to take that next step.


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## pliff (Oct 5, 2006)

*KenFlo* VS *J-Lau*

Battle of the bad nicknames..


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Jesus Christ, what is it with people misinterpretting my post today? It is clearly obvious Sherk (and Penn) have been eliminated from this conversation as they both are scheduled to fight for the title. I never said any of those guys deserved a title shot, only a shot against one another for the title shot.


Okay chill out dude. I got your point now. 



> Since when did Tyson Griffin and Spencer Fisher become less impressive than Jens Pulver (keyword former champion), Brandon Melendez, and Jason Reinhardt? Edgar has had good wins against better competition in the UFC to this
> point.


They haven't and yet you don't want Lauzon to get some good comp with a fight against Florian? That doesn't make any sense to me, maybe you should make a thread about the Edgar/Maynard fight and how unfair that is.



> And Huerta (though I forgot he was on hold) has beaten Guida. Couple that with the impressive wins against everyone else (all average, none stellar), and I think he has done just as much, if not more, than Lauzon.


So now its Guida>Pulver? WOW just WOW:dunno: What I mean here is that Lauzon is basically a carbon copy of Huerta in that he has some soild wins and impressive finishes but doesn't have the tough comp thing yet.



> I think this is White's way of rewarding Lauzon for always looking for the finish.


Now in a way you're contradicting yourself. Are you saying you want fighters with less fights to be cosidered b/c of who they beat but not guys that have finished fights? 



Damone said:


> I really think Edgar's ready to take that next step.


As do I and why I am pissed he is fighting Maynard and not Marcus Aurelio who is fighting Spencer Fisher a guy that Edgar just tooled.


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## nelsonfb03 (Mar 4, 2008)

does it really matter who's the number one contender is with a pissed off Penn at the top of the division?


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Yes, yes it does matter.


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## mickkelly12 (Jan 19, 2008)

silent_nick said:


> I love Kenny Florian but "KenFlo" has to be the stupidest nickname.


J-Lau is way worse.both of them are too close to k-fed


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Kenflo is a beast and should beat Lauzon. But this is a very good matchup. The fans know both fighters and will have people interested. I think the Edgar vs Maynard fight is stupider.


I agree that KenFlo should beat Lauzon, but this fight will be better than people expect. Remember Joe beat Jens Pulver guys, thats pretty good.


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## JT42 (Dec 31, 2006)

Most of these LWs though are relatively unknown to the casual fan but having them on the UFN gets them exposure. If Florian beats J-Lau and Edgar beats Maynard on Spike, more people will be excited about Florian vs Edgar for #1 Contender.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

IcemanCometh said:


> Okay chill out dude. I got your point now.
> 
> 
> They haven't and yet you don't want Lauzon to get some good comp with a fight against Florian? That doesn't make any sense to me, maybe you should make a thread about the Edgar/Maynard fight and how unfair that is.
> ...



Sorry, for the late response. I wasn't meaning it like JESUS CHRIST. So, I was chilled, jujst a little frustrated. But, to the point. I see what your saying, and I guess you are right. If Lauzon doesn't get good comp now, when should he. I agree with that. I think I am just not in agreement with how they are going about selecting their #1 contenders now. It used to be the 2 best or close to best would square off then the winner would fight for the belt. That seems to have gone by wayside now. It is more about better sells then better fights (or fights that should happen). 

I think Guida is a much better fighter then Pulver is now. THere is no doubt in my mind Pulver could knock him out. But there is also no doubt that Guida would take him down and probably finish him. Pulver is past his prime and really hasn't done much recently. He is a good fighter, but I think he was smart to go back down to Feather weight. The UFC LW division is way too stacked for him. 

I think Edgar is getting the shaft too (as I assume everyone does), but this thread was only to address the Lauzon fight. I think Maynard has a shot at beating Edgar. Much more than Lauzon does against Kenflo. Probably won't happen, but you never know. I think that both Kenflo and Edgar are fighting lesser fighters than they deserve to and Lauzon and Maynard are fighter better fighters than they have proven worthy of.

I see what you are saying about the Huerta and Lauzon thing, though I am not in total agreement. Lauzon had a flash KO of Pulver and then a couple of okay fights, whereas, Huerta has finished all but 2. So, there are similarities and differences there. Lauzon's 3 opponents are better than any 3 Huerta has, but Huerta has 6 or 7 victories (so to me that kind of evens out).


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## All_In (Aug 23, 2007)

silent_nick said:


> I love Kenny Florian but "KenFlo" has to be the stupidest nickname.


Really? I kinda like the nickname. 

Regardless, I do think it is a little premature for Lauzon to be fighting Ken but that certainly doesn't mean I don't want to see the fight. Should be good but I'm definitely goin with *KENFLO*!


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## peAk (Feb 20, 2008)

Off topic:

If Sherk loses, I would love to see Sherk/Griffin


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Sorry, for the late response. I wasn't meaning it like JESUS CHRIST. So, I was chilled, jujst a little frustrated. But, to the point. I see what your saying, and I guess you are right. If Lauzon doesn't get good comp now, when should he. I agree with that. I think I am just not in agreement with how they are going about selecting their #1 contenders now. It used to be the 2 best or close to best would square off then the winner would fight for the belt. That seems to have gone by wayside now. It is more about better sells then better fights (or fights that should happen).
> 
> I think Guida is a much better fighter then Pulver is now. THere is no doubt in my mind Pulver could knock him out. But there is also no doubt that Guida would take him down and probably finish him. *Pulver is past his prime and really hasn't done much recently.* He is a good fighter, but I think he was smart to go back down to Feather weight. The UFC LW division is way too stacked for him.
> 
> ...



I agree with most of what you're saying, however, I think Lauzon looked good in TUF and I think he is suffereing from the stigma of that damn show much like Forrest Griffin does now. I also disagree that Pulver is "washed up" or it was a "flash KO" Joe hits hard and KO a solid fighter...the fact
Jens shouldn't have been fighting at LW isn't Joe's problem. Furthermore, lets see Lil Evil fight Faber for the WEC FW title before we starting saying he is washed up, he is changed up his game and worked more on the ground so he could be taking that next step in the FW division; where I might add he is 8-0 with a submission of Cub Swanson. Maybe if Lauzon wins this we can see Guida/Lauzon and Florian/Edgar if Edgar wins. I was also wondering about your thoughts with Maximus?


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

Oluyemi said:


> Mind explaining how Lauzon is suffering from the "stigma" of TUF like Forrest?
> 
> Joe didnt even need TUF he had already beaten Pulver by then and the sky was the limit for him. The only reason Dana put him on TUF was to get him exposure u will be surprised he might be further along than Kenflo is for all u know


Yes you're right considering he is training full time now and with BJ Penn I hope he is and is actually my pick to win the match. The post is a good point about the stigma ppl. don't know if Lauzon deserves to fight KenFlo...



> And how is forrest suffering? the guy was found off the streets and got famous for taking part in one of the sloppiest stand up wars I have ever seen. Yet fans convinced themselves it was one of the best matches ever. *Now he is just another overated american fighter*.


So many things wrong I don't where to start. So I'll just say Forrest already had a pretty good match listing before show and has come a long way since the show. Let me guess you're a Shogun fan?


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## Chrisl972 (Oct 5, 2006)

Oluyemi said:


> Nope I am just not one of the many that feel beating a banged up shogun who had never stepped in a cage prior somehow legitimises him as a top tier fighter. He has a long way to go from being the finish article


You do realize that "over rated" Forrest was in a tourney with Shogun before he was on TUF right? And if you REALLY want to see over rated fighters, go look at the Japanese promotions. At least we don't feed our champs cans. 

(No offense to PRIDE fans, I just hate the American bashing)


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## Chrisl972 (Oct 5, 2006)

Now on the thread topic. 

Am I the only one that thinks Lauzon has a very good shot at winning this? Don't get me wrong, Kenny is a GREAT fighter and has been getting better and better, but Lauzon is undefeated in the UFC and only one of those fights made it to the second round. This guy is no joke and we haven't really seen what he can do yet. Pulver was a stand up fighter and Creepy Joe crushed him on his feet. We all know Joe's strong point is his ground game, so this fight really interests me. 

I'm actually picking Lauzon to win this one.


----------



## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

Where do people get this stuff?


Oluyemi said:


> Nope I am just not one of the many that feel beating a banged up shogun


Shogun has never used that injury to say that is why he lost, so why do his fans?:confused02:



> who had never stepped in a cage prior


Do some research or watch more matches, IFC-Global the fight where he lost to Sobral ws in a cage and he had matches under NSAC rules before in Pride 33. 



> somehow legitimises him as a top tier fighter. He has a long way to go from being the finish article


That isn' the only one, having victories over the like of Jeff Monson, Chael Sonnen, Travis Fulton, Bill Manhood, Elvis Sinosic, and a tooling of a Tito Ortiz do help.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

IcemanCometh said:


> I agree with most of what you're saying, however, I think Lauzon looked good in TUF and I think he is suffereing from the stigma of that damn show much like Forrest Griffin does now. I also disagree that Pulver is "washed up" or it was a "flash KO" Joe hits hard and KO a solid fighter...the fact
> Jens shouldn't have been fighting at LW isn't Joe's problem. Furthermore, lets see Lil Evil fight Faber for the WEC FW title before we starting saying he is washed up, he is changed up his game and worked more on the ground so he could be taking that next step in the FW division; where I might add he is 8-0 with a submission of Cub Swanson. Maybe if Lauzon wins this we can see Guida/Lauzon and Florian/Edgar if Edgar wins. I was also wondering about your thoughts with Maximus?


I kind of agree about Lauzon. Lots of casual fans may htink he is less credible because he was tied to the show. Most of the guys on there were on there more for personality than talent. Because there are hundreds more talented (though don't know if they tried out). And that goes for any season. 

I never said Lil Evil was washed up. Just not in his prime. That doesn't mean he is a bad fighter. I just think that he makes decisions now that he wouldn't have a few years ago because of that fact. That does not take anything away from Lauzon's win over him. It was a solid win. JP said it himself. 

I thought Joe was great on the show. Hell, i was pulling for him the whole time. I love his fighting style. He just goes out there and gets the job done. As much as I disliked Diaz and Gamburyan (mainly because of their relatives), I think they deserved the finals. They both did enough, I wish Manny would have finished more fights though.

Maximus, I am unsure of. I saw his 1st fight with Gomi and he looked good (hell he subbed him; i think it was an arm triangle). I was looking forward to him coming over to the UFC even after the 2 straight losses. But then Guida beat him in a close fight, but Guida clearly won in my mind. SHouldn't have been a split decision. Guida doesn;t get all the credit he deserves from these judges. Aurelio and Tavares should square off, so I can see what each is made of. That would also be a great fight. I love this LW division.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Chris 1972, i agree about this American bashing. Damn, people what the hell have we done so terribly wrong that everyone hates us for stupid reasons. 

Fans can't like a guy because he is fun to watch or fub to be around. Nope that just makes him an overrated American Fighter. I guess the fun-loving brit, is a stupid overrated British Fighter then too? Look, no one is saying Forrest is the best in the world. But, he is a legitimate contender. He has a great resume of fighters he has faced. He has gotten better in just about every fight we have seen him in. And since training with Randy he has looked very good. The LHW division may be stacked, but the only person with an argument to have this fight with Page before Forrest is Machida. I think Dana didn't give it to him because he never goes all out and tries to finish fights. 

On another note, I think Lauzon has a great opportunity here to show what he is made of. But let's face it he is only undefeated in the UFC because the NSAC doesn't let them count TUF fights. Manny made him lok bad. I want Joe to win. I think these two fighters are very similar. But I think Kenflo is going to want to keep it on the feet. His Muay Thai is way better than anything Lauzon has. Penn has never been known as a great teacher either. So, I wouldn;t say Joe has the mentor of a lifetime. Though as fighters go, there are few if any better then Penn better in my eyes. 

This is a fight between 2 guys that want to go out there and finish their pponent as soon as possible. And it wil probably go the distance because of that.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*Class is overrated.*

Aaronyman started a thread basically bitching about BJ Penn being a classless fighter.

Does anyone really care how much class a fighter has? 

He is a goddamn professional at kicking ass. How much class does that usually entail? What do you want, a fighter that kicks some guy's ass and makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside?

Get over it. This is just another example of people becoming bitches. Grow up and act like an adult. You aren't going to like everyone you come across in your life. Have the wherewithall to realize that and accept it as reality. Stop being such a *****. I am sure some people will neg rep me for speaking my mind about someone I have never met. But isn't that what we do here?


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Oh yeah, rant is over now


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## Cartheron (Sep 5, 2007)

Polls are overrated!


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## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

Not really, because class won't win you fights, plus even though I like some classy fighters most of the fighters I like are cocky.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

? this is ridiculous...grow up dude


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> ? this is ridiculous
> 
> go back to sherdog


I've been a member longer then you; and I have never been to sherdog, yet another unintelligent response.

You can talk smack about BJ based on little minor occurrences in his life. Yet dismiss the same as being rediculous when it happens to you. 

Thank you for realizing why I made this thread.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> I've been a member longer then you; and I have never been to sherdog, yet another unintelligent response.
> 
> You can talk smack about BJ based on little minor occurrences in his life. Yet dismiss the same as being rediculous when it happens to you.
> 
> Thank you for realizing why I made this thread.


you should check it out....there are tons of keyboard warriors like you who take stuff way too personally


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> you should check it out....there are tons of keyboard warriors like you who take stuff way too personally


I didn't take it personally at all, dude. You are the one crying about a FIGHTER not acting CLASSY, of all things, 100% of the time. Your post was just wsa just rediculous and felt that it needed to be responded to. I am sure class in a fighter doesn't matter to over 80% of this forum. However, since the mods moved it to a less popular section, we will probably never know. I apologize if I have offended you Aaronyman. That was not my intention, only to open your eyes to how you sounded. Apparently that didn't work. 

I appreciate your discussion of this and don't expect you to agree with me. I don't expect to agree with you either. We are clearly on opposite sides of this feeling, and I want you to know I respect that, but can't possibly understand it.


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## Korsakov (Nov 24, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> ? this is ridiculous
> 
> go back to sherdog


go back to sherdog? you're the one making the "BJ PENN IS NOT CLASSY!" threads. try not to be such a hypocrite from time to time. 


on a serious note, i think class is a good thing to have in any sport. but like all sports, some fighters will have more class than others. either way, i got into this sport because of the fighting, not because of how classy/unclassy a fighter is. so it's not something i'm going to whine about and create threads about like aarony.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> I didn't take it personally at all, dude. You are the one crying about a FIGHTER not acting CLASSY, of all things, 100% of the time. Your post was just wsa just rediculous and felt that it needed to be responded to. I am sure class in a fighter doesn't matter to over 80% of this forum. However, since the mods moved it to a less popular section, we will probably never know. I apologize if I have offended you Aaronyman. That was not my intention, only to open your eyes to how you sounded. Apparently that didn't work.
> 
> I appreciate your discussion of this and don't expect you to agree with me. I don't expect to agree with you either. We are clearly on opposite sides of this feeling, and I want you to know I respect that, but can't possibly understand it.


lol if you wanted to have a reasonable discussion you could maybe have left out the " *Aaronyman started a thread basically bitching* about BJ Penn being a classless fighter."

not really a mature way to start a discussion IMO


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

*Why is it...*

... that every time I go back and watch some old UFCs (say, 10-20) that I really miss the old-school ring girls?

I can't figure it out. It doesn't make sense. But they still do it for me. :dunno:


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## Chrisl972 (Oct 5, 2006)

Gluteal Cleft said:


> ... that every time I go back and watch some old UFCs (say, 10-20) that I really miss the old-school ring girls?
> 
> I can't figure it out. It doesn't make sense. But they still do it for me. :dunno:


Why not treat us with some pics of the ones that you are reffering to???


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## Shoguns_Nuts (Oct 11, 2007)

Chrisl972 said:


> Why not treat us with some pics of the ones that you are reffering to???


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Chrisl972 said:


> Why not treat us with some pics of the ones that you are reffering to???


I second the motion!


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

Cool, I'll see if I can get some screen captures later.


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## Benge (Mar 8, 2008)

I'm not into bestiality, but god knows my nipples are hard whenever I tread before camels.










Is it cold in here or is it just Rachelle?


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

while i guess rachelle is just doing the all access show now, i wouldn't really call her an old school ring girl. Amber Nichole would be a better candidate but I think the OP meant the girls before her even, who were never really named on camera.


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## Robb2140 (Oct 21, 2006)

He means the girls from the old SEG days. They were'nt bad, looked like strippers who probably work the lunch shift at their respective clubs.


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## Benge (Mar 8, 2008)

I don't mind the new Octagon Girls. I never liked Ali much, but Edith does it for me, even though they are fake.

*_Sorry those pictures are a little too racey_*


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Do you mean the old topless and thonged ones that looked like two dollar hookers?
Yeah I miss them too.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Benge said:


> I don't mind the new Octagon Girls. I never liked Ali much, but Edith does it for me, even though they are fake.
> 
> *_Sorry those pictures are a little too racey_*


wow, seriously those were a little too racey? there was no nipple... im not a big fan of edith but those looked good


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## Chrisl972 (Oct 5, 2006)

HexRei said:


> wow, seriously those were a little too racey? there was no nipple... im not a big fan of edith but those looked good


I thought they looked good as well, but you have to remember that a lot of people get on here as guests and hot girls are OK, but I could see parents getting upset about a 13 year old looking at stuff like that. 

It's one thing if it's in the VIP Section and another to have it in the UFC section where the majority of the guests come to look for MMA information.

It's a very fine line and I'd rather error on the side of caution. 

Sorry guys.


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

Robb2140 said:


> He means the girls from the old SEG days. They were'nt bad, looked like strippers who probably work the lunch shift at their respective clubs.





TheNegation said:


> Do you mean the old topless and thonged ones that looked like two dollar hookers?
> Yeah I miss them too.


Yeah, that pretty much sums them up.


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## capt_america (Apr 16, 2007)

im not really sure is this is what you mean..but im sure its old school(little old)..

well i think you missed them because you dont know their names..

unlike Edith or Ariani who are popular and you see them in every UFC event..


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## JujitsuLight (Mar 13, 2008)

I didn't know trim spa was around that long ago. hmm


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

Alright, here you go...


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## MMA_Nick (Nov 19, 2006)

Im digging these old school chicks. They need to start using more girls or just alternate every new UFC event or so.


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## JIKI (Jan 22, 2008)

Arianni is a goddess


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*President and CEO for a day...What do you do?*

Say, you are President and CEO of the UFC for a day. Anything you do will be changed for good (or at aleast for a while, until someone notices how terrible it might be), what do you do?

I think the first thing I would do is change the scoring system. Get with the athletic commission in each state and tell them that if they don't like my idea of a scoring system then I will go hold my shows somewhere else. Scoring would be done on an overall basis and not limited to round performances. Takedowns would not rate nearly as high in my book unless they ended up in a dominant position, but guard is 50-50 and so is standing so that might not even count for anything. There are many other things involved in scoring that I would change, but no need to delve into that.

Then sign Fedor and Randy, winner fights Nog vs Arlovski winner.

Then make a committee so no one like Dana White could preside over the UFC ever again.


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## leviticus (May 27, 2007)

Gluteal Cleft said:


> Alright, here you go...


Holy crap! I thought I had cataracts when I hit your links. Are those straight of vhs or betamax?:thumb02:


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## Bebop (Aug 15, 2006)

lol, Beta... haha.


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## SideWays40 (Feb 15, 2008)

thats funny... i like those old school chicks 2


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## Sydon666 (Oct 11, 2006)

Sell it to Pro Elite or DREAM.


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

I too miss the neon whale-tails and titty-tassles.

Some of those chicks were rediculously ugly, and I think one was even pregnant.


----------



## Suizida (Feb 29, 2008)

Put Kongo against every HW fighter one after the other, so when he's KO'ed he can vs Brock


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I would setup a WEC vs UFC Supercard that had like 20-25 fights on it. It wouldn't have just WEC vs UFC fights, just a couple champ vs champ ones. This event would end with the Fedor vs Couture fight.


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## csefcik (Jan 9, 2007)

I would offer Randy one last chance to defend his belt against Nog. If he refused, he would be stripped. 

Declare Nog the new HW champ.

Offers deals to Antonio Silva and Frank Shamrock.


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## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

I would add the 145 pound division. I would sign Lindland, Robbie Lawler, Denis Kang to spice up 185. I would also go after Frank Shamrock even though that probably wouldnt happen. I would also release Brock Lesnar from his contract and make him earn his way into the UFC which he def has the potential to do but also def. hasnt done yet. I would give Fitch and Karo a title shot, in that order as long as Karo gets by Alves.


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## AmRiT (Apr 23, 2007)

Sign Arlovski

Arlovski vs Nog HW Title (Randy Stripped)
GSP vs Silva
Hughes vs Penn


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## GarethUFC (Sep 12, 2007)

Drop tito even before his next fight, that guy piss's me off...

I would drop a few names from the Roster and bring new names in... One guess who i would give a good contract to


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## Ebc_Kyle (Sep 24, 2006)

Kimbo Slice.


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## Mc19 (Jul 6, 2006)

sign fedor and frank shamrock


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## JujitsuLight (Mar 13, 2008)

I would try to get a Heroes UFC together, and bring back more old fighters for some exhibition matches. 

Rework the payscale for better show/win purses for undercard people, as well as providing more inventives for winning/fight of the night. 

Get a Tuf Team season, where complete gyms train as opposed to individuals. 
i.e. Team Quest vs. American top team.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

I would stop favoring the TUF fighters and stop cramming them down the public's throat.

I would also shorten the TUF taping so whatever the division the coaches are from wouldn't have the scheduling for their fight take so long. Waiting half a year to see a fight is waaay too long unless injury or something else causes the delay.


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## Green Scape (Nov 15, 2006)

I'd get every signed contracted fighter for the UFC into a stadium, invite all the active mmaforum members travel paid! Of course there'd be a sweet ass card lined up to watch but the main course would be at the end of the night with a tournament style World Title fight involving Big Nog, Randy Couture, Andrei Arlovski, and Fedor. 
This will all be held in Japan, with the same pride introduction. Free tacos.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Like a lot of the suggestions, but some others just seem counterintuitive. Dropping big name fighters is not financially sound. Tito, though some people hate him, is a huge draw. His fights consistently have been top sellers. 

Frank Shamrock probably would sign with the UFC if Dana were not around. So, it is a safe bet to say he would join. Kang, Lindland, and Shamrock would certainly add some spice to the 185 lb division. 

I like the UFC vs. WEC idea. That is original. I think we should extend that to a supercard vs. K-1 or Dream or something else. M-1 not yet because they don't really have anything besides Fedor. I would renegotiate many contracts. And make sure the loser of a fight never gets paid more than the winner. That is probably the stupidest thing I have ever seen. Regardless of who is fighting. 

I would have 1 fight night and 1 PPV every month. The UFC has plenty of fighters to do that. Every PPV would include a huge match-up. I would also promote fights between different weight classes (as exhibitions). A. Silva vs a LHW or WW, Chuck vs. a HW (i.e Vera). Just somethings to keep the fans busy specualting and talking about the sport. I would try to get the fight nights moved to CBS, FOX, NBC, or ABC for a larger audience. I often forget to check the channels over 300 on my direct TV when I watch TV (which is rarely nowadays). Keep the suggestions coming. The more I get the more I realize how counterproductive some of White's decisions really are.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Green Scape said:


> I'd get every signed contracted fighter for the UFC into a stadium, invite all the active mmaforum members travel paid! Of course there'd be a sweet ass card lined up to watch but the main course would be at the end of the night with a tournament style World Title fight involving Big Nog, Randy Couture, Andrei Arlovski, and Fedor.
> This will all be held in Japan, with the same pride introduction. Free tacos.


Is your sig (defiantly and definitely) there to express the difference between the two words because so many people are misusing the two? I have noticed that too. Wonder why it is so widespread.


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## SlaveTrade (Apr 27, 2007)

I would sign Gomi.


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## JujitsuLight (Mar 13, 2008)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Is your sig (defiantly and definitely) there to express the difference between the two words because so many people are misusing the two? I have noticed that too. Wonder why it is so widespread.


We live in the U.S. Like 40% of our population didnt know who the vice president was.


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## Benge (Mar 8, 2008)

plazzman said:


> I too miss the neon whale-tails and titty-tassles.
> 
> Some of those chicks were rediculously ugly, and I think one was even pregnant.


She was, she went into labor in the middle of the 3rd round.


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

Green Scape said:


> I'd get every signed contracted fighter for the UFC into a stadium, invite all the active mmaforum members travel paid! Of course there'd be a sweet ass card lined up to watch but the main course would be at the end of the night with a tournament style World Title fight involving Big Nog, Randy Couture, Andrei Arlovski, and Fedor.
> This will all be held in Japan, with the same pride introduction. Free tacos.


this is the greatest idea out of all of them :thumbsup:


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## MMA_Nick (Nov 19, 2006)

Make Fedor Couture happen

Raise the win bonus

Actually disqualify fighters for failing a drug test BEFORE and after fight

lower payperview prices and show prelims

Use my CEO powers to seduce Ariani


----------



## RTD (Jun 2, 2007)

Pay off My Car

Buy A house

Deposit Money into my savings.

Then give more money to the fighters.


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## looney liam (Jun 22, 2007)

first i'd fire dana white and the fertita brothers, thus making me the legit owner of the company. 

then i'd put on a super open weight tournament, the final would be for the p4p world title. anderson silva would win it (even if i have to reverse a few decisions to do so).


----------



## raymardo (Jun 21, 2006)

Show the entire fight card to PPV subscribers. If it runs too long, stream it free on UFC.com


----------



## sjbboy38 (Jan 8, 2007)

do a rematch for every fighter that came from Pride with a ring and Pride rules and see if the results are different.... then make a match with fedor vs randy...winner gets to face Dana White in the Octagon


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

all televised fights free
average joes get front row seats at events
get every insane russian fighter I could
fedor v. couture a reality
Bas and Ken commentating, then bas could say "Right you are Ken"
fix it so I could do every sound check by talking into the octagon microphone witty things like "Luke I am your father" and "nobody can 'andle my riddim"


----------



## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

"Chuck, come on back. You and Fedor can slug it out for the title, and whoever wins has to fight Nog to call it good."

"Goldberg, you're fired. Oh, and on the way out, call Bas Rutten and tell him he's going to take your place."

"Arianne, Celeste, Edith... remember that bonus we were going to work out?


----------



## Suvaco (Mar 31, 2007)

Sydon666 said:


> Sell it to Pro Elite or DREAM.


So you're a Dana hater, but for some reason you have no problem with Gary Shaw? You, sir, are an ignorant hypocrite.


----------



## Muttonwar (Mar 22, 2008)

*Mine*

Surprised now one has said what i was thinking first. Give Keith Jardine a title shot.

Get next season of TUF in the works with Heavy Weights.

Fire Steve Mazagati(<---spelling)


----------



## Judoka (Feb 23, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Say, you are President and CEO of the UFC for a day. Anything you do will be changed for good (or at aleast for a while, until someone notices how terrible it might be), what do you do?
> 
> I think the first thing I would do is change the scoring system. Get with the athletic commission in each state and tell them that if they don't like my idea of a scoring system then I will go hold my shows somewhere else. Scoring would be done on an overall basis and not limited to round performances. Takedowns would not rate nearly as high in my book unless they ended up in a dominant position, but guard is 50-50 and so is standing so that might not even count for anything. There are many other things involved in scoring that I would change, but no need to delve into that.
> 
> ...


You and others may not like him but it is fact that he is a brilliant business man.


----------



## MADDSNIPER (Dec 28, 2006)

put Pat Militech and Frank Shamrock in the hall of fame. sign frank for one last fight in the UFC to fight Anderson Silva before he retires.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Judoka said:


> You and others may not like him but it is fact that he is a brilliant business man.


So was Hitler, but what he did was wrong. So is Dick Cheney, so is Donald Trump. Just because his business is "successful" doesn't mean he is a great business man. He is actually not good at business whatsoever. The fighters market and sell this stuff. He has very little to do with that. He oppresses his fighters, treats people like garbage, can't not cuss, and lacks any real business credo. TUF is a good idea, as are many of his others, but the planning and execution of many things is below a professional level and needs to be tweaked.


----------



## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

I love all the unrealistic things. 'Sign Fedor', 'Sign Arlovski'. These things just aren't that simple and most of them are probably pretty bad business decisions. Love or hate Dana, he is an excellent businessman.


----------



## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

i would sign lil MF'n Nog.....that guy seriously needs to be in the UFC


----------



## Don$ukh (Jan 2, 2007)

Bring Semmy Schilt to fight Kongo. 
Bring back Renato Sobral to fight Ortiz. Sign Belfort for 2 fights in WEC (See if he still has UFC talent). 
Try and set up Mark Hunt vs Tim Sylvia. 
Karo vs fitch for number one status. 
Oh yeah Filho vs A.Silva, Akiyama and Lawler to bolster the MW division.


----------



## JIKI (Jan 22, 2008)

kimbo slice vs Marcus davis


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*I want Kala Hose to the UFC..who is with me?*

Now I am not saying this guy is title worhty or anything, but I think he could certainly add much needed depth to a shallow MW division. He recently beat up (in every sense of the phrase) Phil Baroni for hte Icon MW title. He has been training the Legend Frank Shamrock. 

I think he is still a ways away from being the top of the food chain, but with some more help from Frank in the sub wrestling department he could be a star.

Here are his last few rounds with Baroni.
http://ballhype.com/video/phil_baroni_vs_kala_kolohe_icon_2_2/


----------



## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

If he's holding a belt why would he leave the org?

Anyway we all need to shut up about who should got to the UFC and start taling about who should go to DREAM.

We can't have the UFC hogging all the good fighters can we?


----------



## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

southpaw447 said:


> If he's holding a belt why would he leave the org?
> 
> Anyway we all need to shut up about who should got to the UFC and start taling about who should go to DREAM.
> 
> We can't have the UFC hogging all the good fighters can we?


I'd like it if they did. The anti-UFC types out there want to see other organizations grab fighters, but I don't want to see 50 promotions with shallow talent pools.

MMA should have a major league, so the best can face the best. Otherwise, it will end up like boxing.

UFC is the best candidate to be that major league.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

I am going to have to agree with Vandalian here. He has a good point, and it seems to be a feeling that most UFC forum posters share. 

It would not make sense for there to be 5-10 big name organizations that each have great fighters. It would be great for 4-9 of them, but we all know those UFC fighters would not be able to fight outside of their org. Match-ups that everyone wants to see would never be seen. Since, UFC bought pride we have seen 1 fight, at least, that everyone wanted (Silva v Liddell). More fights like this would be possible if ALL of the big name fighters were under one organization. Not to mention the UFC has so many of the big fighters already, among the fighters (with common sense and objectivity)it has to be the place they would want to fight. The only promotion that has as much talent is K-1, but not at all weights.


----------



## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> I am going to have to agree with Vandalian here. He has a good point, and it seems to be a feeling that most UFC forum posters share.
> 
> It would not make sense for there to be 5-10 big name organizations that each have great fighters. It would be great for 4-9 of them, but we all know those UFC fighters would not be able to fight outside of their org. *Match-ups that everyone wants to see would never be seen. Since, UFC bought pride we have seen 1 fight, at least, that everyone wanted (Silva v Liddell).* More fights like this would be possible if ALL of the big name fighters were under one organization. Not to mention the UFC has so many of the big fighters already, among the fighters (with common sense and objectivity)it has to be the place they would want to fight. The only promotion that has as much talent is K-1, but not at all weights.


I don't know I thought everybody wanted to see Tim Sylvia against one of the Pride Heavyweights (Which turned out to be Big Nog). 

But yeah, I agree with everything you said. I don't want to see the best fighters scattered. They should be under one roof so we can see the best fights.


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Now I am not saying this guy is title worhty or anything, but I think he could certainly add much needed depth to a shallow MW division. He recently beat up (in every sense of the phrase) Phil Baroni for hte Icon MW title. He has been training the Legend Frank Shamrock.
> 
> I think he is still a ways away from being the top of the food chain, but with some more help from Frank in the sub wrestling department he could be a star.
> 
> ...


Thing is Phil Baroni was in the UFC and him and Shamrock have one thing in common, neither have the skill to be competitive or make there way to the top of the UFC so its hard to judge, but why not give him a shot and see anyway IMO.


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## badguy (Sep 5, 2007)

I like the idea of having the big leagues but is the UFC large enough and is it generating enough money to support the increased talent that is going to flock into their organization? As well are people going to pay $40 - $50 month for a couple of events per month? UFC can only put on so many free shows.


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## brownpimp88 (Jun 22, 2006)

Um, I thought Elite had this guy? 

He did look impressive against Baroni. That was an entertaining fight.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

i'd rather have Manhoef


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## Benge (Mar 8, 2008)

There will always be other organizations. Reason being is, the UFC wants fighters on winning streaks. You lose a few fights, you're out the door. That's one thing I hate about the organization.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Wait, did you people seriously watch this fight?
Kala Hose did not perform well, he showed he could take one hell of a beating and then beat up a completely gassed Baroni.
The dude is not a great fighter at all, he showed me nothing in that fight.


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## Shamrock-Ortiz (Sep 22, 2006)

TheNegation, you beat me to it. repped.

This guy has no future, he lost the first round when Baroni was Baroni, then we saw a completely gassed out Baroni who I could of beat up, it's actually crazy how Hose didn't finish him, I know Baroni is a tough son of a bitch who can take a beating, but how did that fight go 5 rounds? Seriously?

No i really don't want him in the UFC.


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## JT42 (Dec 31, 2006)

I think it is funny though how people complain about how Dana White has too much power and doesnt pay or treat fighters right but then says everyone should sign with the UFC. 

Competition is a good thing. And while I agree there shouldnt be a hundred small orgs with one or two good fighters I think 2-3 big orgs is a good thing to give fighters a choice and bargaining power.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

slapshot said:


> Thing is Phil Baroni was in the UFC and him and Shamrock have one thing in common, neither have the skill to be competitive or make there way to the top of the UFC so its hard to judge, but why not give him a shot and see anyway IMO.


I have never been a fan of Baroni's, in fact, I think he is way overrated and has been hyped up because he has heavy hands and is from New York. That is really about it. I don't think Frank could be the best in the world again, but he knows what it takes and could coach Hose up. That is all I was saying. Not to mention, Frank's submission wrestling is still top notch. He could easily beat some big name guys with just that ability. Not to mention the harder you hit him the more he comes at you (gotta love the Legend).


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Hose only looked good against Baroni because Baroni looked like shit.

Seriously, who gasses in the first round? Phil fought like a pansy and didn't even try to trade. Kala isn't ready for the big leagues as far as I'm concerned.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> i'd rather have Manhoef


Doesn't he fight at 205 though?


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Doesn't he fight at 205 though?


Nope!


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Fedor>all said:


> Nope!


Wouldn't Manhoef vs. Cote be rockin?


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

vandalian said:


> Wouldn't Manhoef vs. Cote be rockin?


Hells yeah! Manhoef is an exciting guy to watch, I really enjoyed his fight with Cyborg. Hell, I enjoyed watching him getting Dongbar'd more though :thumb02:


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

his fight w/ cyborg was one of the best mma fights ever....freaking awesome slugfesh and a kickass haymaker head kick


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*Two things that I thought I would never see...*

First and foremost, Joe Rogan interviewing two DEA agents. That was hilarious.

Second, ht casual mentioning of non-UFC fighters by a UFC announcer. When Rogan mentioned JZ and Aoki I was blown away.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

make it three things....when Rogan said "**** choke" i just about died


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

yeah...I was like damn they should probably think of a new name for that one.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*No more fights at altitude*

I think this was a terrible idea...I actually didn't even know it was in Colorado until it started. Guess I just wasn't paying attention. Most fighters were gassed in the second round (if it made it that far). Edgar was completely spent from dealing with that and Maynard just being stronger than him. It is bad when the LW's are gassed by round 2. Hammill and Boetsch was another example. Don't know how the undercards looked, but Guida slowed down at all you know something was wrong. 

I hope they don't have any more fights in the mountains. Too much changed because of that. Look at Lauzon and Florian. Lauzon was too tired to get Kenny off of him and Kenny was too gassed to punch with any power. It looked like a fat bully beating up a little kid in the schoolyard.


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## piratedanger (Sep 16, 2007)

I agree. It was pretty crappy and obviously took a toll.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

Well, they are world class athletes right? I don't see how the Denver Broncos or Nuggets can compete at altitude but somehow MMA fighters who train 4 hours a day or more can't...


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## piratedanger (Sep 16, 2007)

kds13 said:


> Well, they are world class athletes right? I don't see how the Denver Broncos or Nuggets can compete at altitude but somehow MMA fighters who train 4 hours a day or more can't...


Well, I am sure if they all lived in Denver and competed there 16 times a year or 80 times a year then they WOULD be able to. But Colorado isn't where these people are from and it isn't where they compete all the time, its completely different.


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## BCooper (Oct 13, 2007)

That's complete BS. Florian looked fine. Maynard looked normal. Just because a guy is getting his ass handed to him doesn't mean it's because the altitude is tanking him.

The Denver Nuggets have to play 41 basketball games there every year...


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## piratedanger (Sep 16, 2007)

BCooper said:


> That's complete BS. Florian looked fine. Maynard looked normal. Just because a guy is getting his ass handed to him doesn't mean it's because the altitude is tanking him.
> 
> The Denver Nuggets have to play 41 basketball games there every year...


Thats the point, they practice and play there.

Florian didn't look fine, he just looked better than Joe.
Maynard didn't look great either, he just looked better than Frankie.


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

piratedanger said:


> Well, I am sure if they all lived in Denver and competed there 16 times a year or 80 times a year then they WOULD be able to. But Colorado isn't where these people are from and it isn't where they compete all the time, its completely different.


Lauzon trains with Penn in Hawaii and from accounts was working on mountains that were higher probably than Co. I think it was fine, as Kenny pointed out in his post interview that is where the first UFC was held so I am fine with it. Also, you know your fighting up there and should go early to acclumate if you cannot do that then well you're an idiot, IMO.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

the fighters who took training more seriously would have made the adjustment....


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

BCooper said:


> That's complete BS. Florian looked fine. Maynard looked normal. Just because a guy is getting his ass handed to him doesn't mean it's because the altitude is tanking him.
> 
> The Denver Nuggets have to play 41 basketball games there every year...


Dude, rewatch the fight. Florian had very little power on his punches that ended the fight. I have never seen Florian tired like that. Not while Sherk was tossing him around and laying all over him for 25 minutes either. 

You are right about Maynard. Other than that though there really isn't a fighter that it didn't affect. Glad there weren't more big guys on this card.


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## BCooper (Oct 13, 2007)

I just think it's a weak thing to dispute. Both guys fighting have to fight in the same environment. I'm pretty happy with the fights I got to see and I don't think any of the outcomes would have been different had it been in Las Vegas.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

piratedanger said:


> Well, I am sure if they all lived in Denver and competed there 16 times a year or 80 times a year then they WOULD be able to. But Colorado isn't where these people are from and it isn't where they compete all the time, its completely different.


Could they not train at altitude for their training camps to get used to it, ala Tito at Big Bear?

I mean, you know your fight is taking place in Denver at a high altitude...wouldn't you think it would be smart to train at high altitude?


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## piratedanger (Sep 16, 2007)

IcemanCometh said:


> Lauzon trains with Penn in Hawaii and from accounts was working on mountains that were higher probably than Co. I think it was fine, as Kenny pointed out in his post interview that is where the first UFC was held so I am fine with it. Also, you know your fighting up there and should go early to acclumate if you cannot do that then well you're an idiot, IMO.


I agree that they should go early but i think its silly to think altitude doesn't make a different.

The only video and pictures I have ever seen of BJ and JOE are at Sea level at Joe's School or running near the ocean.


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

You know you are going to fight at altitude, and should train accordingly. A LOT of professional fighters train at altitude for every fight because for some there is a cardio edge to be had. And altitude affects everyone different, some people aren't phased by altitude at all.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

kds13 said:


> Well, they are world class athletes right? I don't see how the Denver Broncos or Nuggets can compete at altitude but somehow MMA fighters who train 4 hours a day or more can't...


I believe I read somewhere that the Nuggets arena has a higher flow of oxygen than normal arenas. And I know for a fact that no football player has ever gone full out for five minutes, rested for 1, full out for five minutes, rested for 1, full out for five minutes and been done. They go for a max of 15 seconds at a time and then rest for 20-40 seconds and there are TV timeouts and ref timeouts. So to compare those two things is a bit rediculous and farfetched. The b-ball thing holds more weight but those guys take breaks and don't necessarily go all out like fighters do either. Not to mention the fact that being hit takes a lot of energy. Something that b-ball players don't have to deal with unless the play Shaq or Artest.


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

piratedanger said:


> I agree that they should go early but i think its silly to think altitude doesn't make a different.
> 
> The only video and pictures I have ever seen of BJ and JOE are at Sea level at Joe's School or running near the ocean.



they did some training on a mountain 8,000 feet above sea level, not sure how that measures up to Broomfield, Co. tho.

Link:
http://www.combatlifestyle.com/words/gdetail.php?id=43


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

They could always pump in O2, like the casinos.


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## Judo_BlackBelt (Apr 8, 2007)

IcemanCometh said:


> Lauzon trains with Penn in Hawaii and from accounts was working on mountains that were higher probably than Co. I think it was fine, as Kenny pointed out in his post interview that is where the first UFC was held so I am fine with it. Also, you know your fighting up there and should go early to acclumate if you cannot do that then well you're an idiot, IMO.


you're an idiot for thinking the mountains that Joe and BJ train on in Hawaii come close to the altitude of the ones in Colorado.


Edit: well now that u have proof i guess ur no idiot.


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## NavyChief (Oct 10, 2007)

kds13 said:


> Well, they are world class athletes right? I don't see how the Denver Broncos or Nuggets can compete at altitude but somehow MMA fighters who train 4 hours a day or more can't...


Exactly. Competing (or just working/living) at "elevation" is not as critical as folks want to make it out to be. I was raised in Farmington, NM. Way up in the NW corner of the state, elevation just a tad over 5,300. I worked in the oilfields my whole life. Very physical, hard, demanding work. The conditions outside in the winter were brutal at best. I was young and in great shape. I could work for 8 hours straight doing that demanding labor. When I went to boot camp in Orlando, Fl (elevation: sea level) in 1985, and we had to run daily (usually only 3 miles) and I could not do it. After 8 weeks of boot camp...I still sucked at running. I just have never been much of a runner. Whether at "elevation" or at sea level. 

I won't say that doing demanding physical things in any sport doesn't differ to a degree when at higher elevations, but it is MUCH more of a mind-f$#%k than it is a real physically limiting thing. As you exit the visitors locker room in Mile High Stadium there is a prominantly displared sign declaring "You are at 5,280 ft elevation...one mile" or something close to that. It's a mind-game to a fairly large degree.

We spent a very large portion of our time backpacking and mountaineering in Colorado. One of my goals was to top all of the "Fourteeners" (the 14,000ft peaks of which there are between 53 and 58 depending on who you ask) in the state by the time I was 21. I did about 12 of 'em, but my point is this...get to THAT type of elevation and you will see an absolute marked difference, starting it seemed around the 10,000ft mark. But at the "mile high" mark...not so much.

Does it make a difference? Yes, somewhat. To a really large degree to professionally trained and heavily conditioned athletes? Not as much as folks want to believe. So should we "ban" Denver as a site for MMA bouts? Gimme a freakin' break. You'd just as soon convince the Broncos, the Rockies, the Nuggets, or the Avalanche to move to Kansas. 

So, as usual, I have opened myself up to get body-slammed here. Have at it fellas. :confused05:


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## NavyChief (Oct 10, 2007)

Judo_BlackBelt said:


> you're an idiot for thinking the mountains that Joe and BJ train on in Hawaii come close to the altitude of the ones in Colorado.
> 
> 
> Edit: well now that u have proof i guess ur no idiot.


He is right of course. The highest mountain (volcano actually) is Mauna Kea at 13,796ft. Not as high (or as numerous as in Colorado) but close.


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## LjStronge (Aug 29, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> I believe I read somewhere that the Nuggets arena has a higher flow of oxygen than normal arenas. And I know for a fact that no football player has ever gone full out for five minutes, rested for 1, full out for five minutes, rested for 1, full out for five minutes and been done. They go for a max of 15 seconds at a time and then rest for 20-40 seconds and there are TV timeouts and ref timeouts. So to compare those two things is a bit rediculous and farfetched. The b-ball thing holds more weight but those guys take breaks and don't necessarily go all out like fighters do either. Not to mention the fact that being hit takes a lot of energy. Something that b-ball players don't have to deal with unless the play Shaq or Artest.


2 things to remember here - Soccer players (as you call them, to us it's football) have to run for 45 minutes with out a break - there are numourous stadiums at higher altitudes and lots of teams have to deal with it.

It is a known FACT (study's, reports & evidence) that it takes the human body only 10 days to adapt from the change in altitude. I will find the report somewhere and post it up, I read one that was studied at sea level and then at a specific height, I'll find the details.

So, how hard is it to turn up to the city 10 days in advance? Well it's not is it!


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## LivingDedMan (May 10, 2007)

Yeah, bad idea. Especially after I read somewhere that the crowd was less than 7,000 people. I could see going there if you were going to get a 20,000 plus crowd, but for less than 7,000, why bother putting the fighters through that.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

LjStronge said:


> 2 things to remember here - Soccer players (as you call them, to us it's football) have to run for 45 minutes with out a break - there are numourous stadiums at higher altitudes and lots of teams have to deal with it.
> 
> It is a known FACT (study's, reports & evidence) that it takes the human body only 10 days to adapt from the change in altitude. I will find the report somewhere and post it up, I read one that was studied at sea level and then at a specific height, I'll find the details.
> 
> So, how hard is it to turn up to the city 10 days in advance? Well it's not is it!



Yeah soccer players run, that is it. Every once in a while tey will sprint, kick the ball, slide tackle, or somehting other than jog. But to assume that is equal exercise to what these fighters go through is completely absurd. 

Not to mention adjusting to walking around at altitude and cometing in an MMA competition are completely different and any study you find would not be relevant.


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## Chrisl972 (Oct 5, 2006)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Yeah soccer players run, that is it. Every once in a while tey will sprint, kick the ball, slide tackle, or somehting other than jog. But to assume that is equal exercise to what these fighters go through is completely absurd.
> 
> Not to mention adjusting to walking around at altitude and cometing in an MMA competition are completely different and any study you find would not be relevant.


I know, you see athletes for other sports get in and do MMA and the almost always gas quickly. It really is a completely different level of Cardio that you have to have to keep any kind of pace up when in the cage. 

That difference in Oxygen in the air really did seem to make the difference in pretty much every fight. As I said in a different thread, I really like to see ffights that are full of action, pushing the pace constantly and none of the fights that night even came close to what I'm used to from those fighters. 

I'm perfectly fine with never having a fight in Denver again and if they do, I wouldn't be suprised if a lot of fighters refuse to be a part of it.


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## drockh (Nov 17, 2006)

kds13 said:


> Well, they are world class athletes right? I don't see how the Denver Broncos or Nuggets can compete at altitude but somehow MMA fighters who train 4 hours a day or more can't...


I dunno last i checked in those other sports people werent getting punched in the face and losing blood from cuts.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Chrisl972 said:


> I'm perfectly fine with never having a fight in Denver again and if they do, I wouldn't be suprised if a lot of fighters refuse to be a part of it.


why would they refuse tho? the fighter has the ability to control it by getting up their earlier....


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## Chrisl972 (Oct 5, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> why would they refuse tho? the fighter has the ability to control it by getting up their earlier....


I don't believe that to be true. There are guys that have INCREDIBLE conditioning that wen't able to adjust. These guys train like they are going to be fighting 10 round fights most of the time and it still made them gas quickly. Now if you are talking about guys just training up there year around, fine. But I don't see them doing that. 

They said that Florian got there two weeks early to try and get acclimated and he still looked VERY gassed towards the end of the fight and that was him having full mount for two minutes. Think about if it had made it to the third round.


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## tomiE (Nov 17, 2007)

Don't see why you guys are whining about the altitude. Rogan and Goldberg both said many of the fighters came in 2-4 weeks early in order to get use to the altitude. Also, the altitude affected "both fighters" so it wasn't where only one person had an advantage over the other. 

In the Denver metro area, (which includes Broomfield) the altitude is only around 5,100ft (+- 400) depending where you are. And the highest point in Colorado is only 14,000ft or so, so not much higher than those of Hawaii. Remember most many fighters sleep in those hyperbolic chambers when they are training for a fight. Most are set up to +10,000ft elevation, i.e. Bj Penn. The truth is, if your cardio sucks, it will show. Just up here, if your cardio sucks, it will show earlier. 

Bottom line is that altitude has an affect all the fighters and it shouldn't be a reason why the UFC shouldn't do any more shows here.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

drockh said:


> I dunno last i checked in those other sports people werent getting punched in the face and losing blood from cuts.


Yeah, because football is a pretty wussy sport. :confused03:

Why is everyone bitching about altitude? These guys know they're fighting in Denver...train at altitude or get to the city early to get acclimated to it. Should the fans in Colorado never get to watch the UFC live in their state just because some world class athletes "can't handle" the air?

Give me a break.


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## Chrisl972 (Oct 5, 2006)

kds13 said:


> Yeah, because football is a pretty wussy sport. :confused03:
> 
> Why is everyone bitching about altitude? These guys know they're fighting in Denver...train at altitude or get to the city early to get acclimated to it. Should the fans in Colorado never get to watch the UFC live in their state just because some world class athletes "can't handle" the air?
> 
> Give me a break.


It has nothing to do with the fans in Denver. They only sold 7,000 tickets for the show. It has to do with being able to put on a great fight showcasing fighters skills. I don't feel that it's able to be accomplished in that kind of altitude. If it had only been one fight that looked like a normaly well conditioned fighter was gassing, I wouldn't complain about it at all. It seemed like EVERYONE was a step off from what they are really capible of. I watch the UFC because I want to see the best fighters in the world (Up for debate, I know) putting on what they do best. If I wanted to see guys get in there and scrap for a few minutes and tire out, I'd go hang out at the bars in Detroit.

If a new fan watched that and really thought that was an accurate portrayal of the conditioning of a Frankie Edgar, or Ken Florian/Joe Lauzon, then I'm sad they are being misled.

I would much rather see guys getting in and being able to fight like superstars for 15 minutes if they need to. 

Am I really that far off base here???


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

Actually, Joe Lauzon said he could tell a difference after the first round. He also came in a few weeks prior to get use to it.

http://www.ufc.com/

2nd video labeled "Joe Lauzon talks about his loss to Kenny Florian at UFC fight night"


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

This isn't a gripe session about fans mad because their fighters lost. This is an opinion that the fights happening at the altitude they happened at: a) changed how the fight was fought b) changed the overall action in the fight or c) changed the outcome.

There is not a doubt in my mind that those fights would gone down a bit differently if they were to happen at sea level or in Vegas. 

Some people can't deal with altitude; no matter how long they allow their bodies to adjust. That has been medically proven. I personally have no idea what it is like. I have spent 99% of my life at or below sea level. I would gas immediately..lol.


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## Rexqwondo (Aug 2, 2007)

Come on guys this is lame. I never heard anyone complain when Royce won UFC 1 and 2 in denver. Well if there are no more competitions at high altitude then make it illegal to train for a fight at high altitude. That DQ's Tito and Fedor by the way. Well hell make all sporting events only at sea level, and that includes car racing since cars run faster at sea level. For example one of the biggest races (running) races is in boulder the bolder boulder. If these guys can run over 10 miles a world record pace at altitude then so can a world class fighter. Oh yeah the olympic training facility should be moved out of colorado springs, how can we make the athletes who represent us in the olympics train at altitude. I have wrestled and boxed in my high schools years, and now I compete in BJJ tourneys so dont give me that garbage that its unfair.


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## Rexqwondo (Aug 2, 2007)

One more thing because football has a lot of pauses it does not compare to the cardio, But hockey for example is intense. Very similar energy consumption. If there is such an edge how can teams like the la kings or nj devils come and beat the avalanche who live here. You guys make this out to be much more than it really is.


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## sjbboy38 (Jan 8, 2007)

altitude or not, rain or shine, home or away, fighters should be able to fight in any environment. Thats what they train for.


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## LjStronge (Aug 29, 2007)

Chrisl972 said:


> If it had only been one fight that looked like a normaly well conditioned fighter was gassing, I wouldn't complain about it at all. It seemed like EVERYONE was a step off from what they are really capible of.


Not everyone - I disagree with that statement - you mean everyone apart from the fights that ended quick right?

Or the fights were the fighters didnt go hammer and tongs for 3 rounds?

So we are not talking about Johnson/Speer, Irvin/Alexander, Roberts/Aurelio, Cox/Gamburyan - you mean APART from those 8 fighters right?


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## PrideFan123 (Apr 8, 2007)

Fedor recommends training at high altitude. He runs miles a day at that height so not to gas. I realize not everyone lives in an area that high above sea-level, but if you know you're going to fight at a high altitude, then you should at least train at one awhile beforehand to condition yourself better.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

Joe Lauzon went up to train in Denver a few weeks prior to the fight and said he could tell that altitude had a difference after the first round. 

Just because these guys are professional athletes, doesn't meen they are use to high altitudes. Some of these guys have never trained or fought at high altitude before and there is definately a significant difference.

http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=VideoPlayer.home&gid=11204


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

I think is that fight wasn't at that altitude then Tim would have probably beat Matt heh.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Rexqwondo said:


> One more thing because football has a lot of pauses it does not compare to the cardio, But hockey for example is intense. Very similar energy consumption. If there is such an edge how can teams like the la kings or nj devils come and beat the avalanche who live here. You guys make this out to be much more than it really is.


Yeah, because hockey doesn't have line changes like every three minutes or anything. 

Look this isn't a what if, would of, shoud of, could of thread. This is fact. That PPV provided linferior fighter performances. It has nothing to do with what these guys should have done, would have done, or could have done. They are professional athletes, but that also doesn't mean they are automatically able to deal with conditions they are not accustomed to. to compare fighters to race car drivers is completely unrelated and irrelevant. 

Not all UFC fighters can afford to go to a place where they have no connections and live for a month and train. That would be a huge expense and in many cases more than their payouts would be. 

No one was complaing about Royce winning the UFC's 1 & 2 because we didn't have anything to compare his performance to or any of the other fighters for that matter. 

We aren't saying it should have anything to do with other sports, especially the olympics. Do people still watch those? We just know that some of these fighters did not look as crisp, fast, enrgetic, or prepared. In other words it was an inferior product and it had nothing to do with the level of talent.

It would be like buying a Ferrari and it taking 5 second to reach 0-60. Still respectable, but not on par for Ferrari.


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## leviticus (May 27, 2007)

cplmac said:


> You know you are going to fight at altitude, and should train accordingly. A LOT of professional fighters train at altitude for every fight because for some there is a cardio edge to be had. And altitude affects everyone different, some people aren't phased by altitude at all.


I agree completely. Many of these guys train at altitude for their fights (Big Bear etc) already. It is not as though people don't know that altitude effects your cardio. Your a pro athlete, no aspect of a fight should be overlooked. I do mma but I am also a mountaineer. When I am training to climb a 20,000+ foot peak in the Andes you think I have the same cardio regiment as I do if I am going to go climbing in Vermont? Hell no.

Also, more and more fighters (I believe BJ uses one) who don't want to go train at altitude are using hyperbaric chambers to sleep in. There are a ton of ways that these guys can train so they can have a solid three rounds at 5000 feet.


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## Rexqwondo (Aug 2, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Yeah, because hockey doesn't have line changes like every three minutes or anything.
> 
> Look this isn't a what if, would of, shoud of, could of thread. This is fact. That PPV provided linferior fighter performances. It has nothing to do with what these guys should have done, would have done, or could have done. They are professional athletes, but that also doesn't mean they are automatically able to deal with conditions they are not accustomed to. to compare fighters to race car drivers is completely unrelated and irrelevant.
> 
> ...



I have played hockey in my teen years and yes I train BJJ and boxing anywhere between 3 to 5 times per week. Yes you have line changes every minute and a half in hockey, but in that minute and a half you basically sprint 80 percent of the time. That would be like having a mma match throwing haymakers for 40 seconds every minute, not many fighters would make it more than two minutes. second you did not get my meaning of cars. I am not comparing car racing to mma. What I am comparing it too is that a car will run faster at sea level than at higher altitude, so dont have any races where the cars will be slower. I guess my opinion is if you are a top level professional athlete there are no excuses no matter what. In my BJJ school prior to a tournament or mma match we go 6 minute rounds. Yes I live at altitude (Broomfield CO) but would never use this as an excuse for performing badly in a competition. I may disagree but I did not think that card was as slow and dull as you point out. I am glad that people are not saying that Houston Alexander lost because of the altitude.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Rexqwondo said:


> I have played hockey in my teen years and yes I train BJJ and boxing anywhere between 3 to 5 times per week. Yes you have line changes every minute and a half in hockey, but in that minute and a half you basically sprint 80 percent of the time. That would be like having a mma match throwing haymakers for 40 seconds every minute, not many fighters would make it more than two minutes. second you did not get my meaning of cars. I am not comparing car racing to mma. What I am comparing it too is that a car will run faster at sea level than at higher altitude, so dont have any races where the cars will be slower. I guess my opinion is if you are a top level professional athlete there are no excuses no matter what. In my BJJ school prior to a tournament or mma match we go 6 minute rounds. Yes I live at altitude (Broomfield CO) but would never use this as an excuse for performing badly in a competition. I may disagree but I did not think that card was as slow and dull as you point out. I am glad that people are not saying that Houston Alexander lost because of the altitude.


I don't think anyone lost because of hte altitude because oth fighters had that same disadvantage. I think the altitude had an affect on the fighters' performances and if you disagree that is fine, but rather ignorant. Less oxygen to get means less oxygen will be gotten and that will lead to fighters fatigueing faster. I got your comparison to cars and I still don't think it makes sense. Every car is on the same track facing the same disadvantages. I am very glad that Houston Alexander has been exposed as the completely one dimensional fighter he is. I don't think there is room for fighters like that in LHW division right now. It was a great card, but I guess I expected more from those fighters. 

One thing I don't understand about your post is that you live at altitude (admittedly). How could your performance possibly be affected by something you are accustomed to. I can almost guarantee you that Anthony Johnson probably would have had the best cardio in that building that night among the fighters on that card. Because he lives, trains, and fights at that altitude. His body is adjusted to it and has been for years. The other fighters have not had that level of exposure and could not possibly be able to adjust in 2 weeks as well as someone who has lived there their whole lives. Not without blood doping at least.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*Countdown to 83*

Let the shit talk begin...Oh wait it has been going on for sometime now. Well at least let it be all on one Tv show.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*Serra shafted by UFC*

This is not news...It just kind of dawned on me.

Serra is the champ of WW right? i really don't understand why the UFC even made the Hughes vs. St. Pierre a "title fight". 

I mean it took the UFC like 6 months to get an interim title fight together for LW after Sherk tested positive. Just goes to show you that the UFC really doesn't want GSP to be anyhting less than champion. They went as far as to give him a made up title. Sure he had to win it..but even if he would have lost. The other guy was Hughes. SO I am sure the UFC would have been okay with that.

Even though it is old news...I just needed to express that. Weird how people get shit on even when they are at the top.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Did anyone see GSP's sister? She was hot. Of course, I would not want to be the boyfriend. I bet GSP would be pretty intimidating brother of a girlfriend.


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## silvawand (Oct 15, 2006)

Serra couldn't defend the belt for a whole year, and making Hughes vs St.Pierre 2 a fight for the interim title not only gave two of the best WW's a chance to go 5 rounds, but it would also appeal to the casual audience more. I'm sure a lot don't even know what Interim means, a lot just see "CHAMPION" and it pulls them in.

What's the point of bitching about this? How is it such a big deal? There's going to be one champion on Saturday and that's what should matter.

And the reason they market St.Pierre over Serra a lot is because he's a much bigger pull and appeals to a wider audience. Because his fights are always exciting, whereas Serra recently (with the exception of the GSP fight) hasn't come closing to attracting the same type of audience. Who is going to root for someone who clincesh against the fence for 3 rounds and throws foot stomps (vs Lytle)? Not me. (Not saying he is always like this, he's had other good match-ups, but nothing compares to the excitement GSP brings to the octagon.)


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

It wasnt a slight on Sera it was an attempt to stop fans from being let down, instead of just a three round fight they were still getting the 5 round battle that was promissed just with GSP instead of Hughes its not like everyone wouldnt have expected the winner to face Sera anyways and besides when it was unnounced it was unknown how long Sera would be out for.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

silvawand said:


> Serra couldn't defend the belt for a whole year, and making Hughes vs St.Pierre 2 a fight for the interim title not only gave two of the best WW's a chance to go 5 rounds, but it would also appeal to the casual audience more. I'm sure a lot don't even know what Interim means, a lot just see "CHAMPION" and it pulls them in.
> 
> What's the point of bitching about this? How is it such a big deal? There's going to be one champion on Saturday and that's what should matter.
> 
> And the reason they market St.Pierre over Serra a lot is because he's a much bigger pull and appeals to a wider audience. Because his fights are always exciting, whereas Serra recently (with the exception of the GSP fight) hasn't come closing to attracting the same type of audience. Who wants to see someone clinch against the fence for 3 rounds and through foot stomps (vs Lytle)? Not me.



I wasn't bitching about it. At least I wasn't trying to. I just feel bad for the guy. He is the champ. Many champs have had injuries and not been able to fight (Page and Franklin of late) I didn't see any interim fights in those divisions. 

Of course, you can market GSP better he is a God in MMA. So, why, by your own admission, would you have to come up with a gimic for a Hughes vs. GSP rubber match? A match that no one saw going past the 3rd. Both of their previous fights went 2 rounds or less. Why would this one be any different.



Toxic said:


> It wasnt a slight on Sera it was an attempt to stop fans from being let down, instead of just a three round fight they were still getting the 5 round battle that was promissed just with GSP instead of Hughes its not like everyone wouldnt have expected the winner to face Sera anyways and besides when it was unnounced it was unknown how long Sera would be out for.


Why would it matter how long Serra is out for? Was the injury career threatening? I didn't think it was. So, in terms of titles, there shouldn't have been an interim fight until it was decided the current champ is no longer the champ.


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## zarny (Mar 4, 2007)

The UFC wanted the rubber match between Hughes and GSP to be a 5 round fight. I am sure both fighters wanted it that way as well.

When Mir was injured an interim title was created initially. He was out so long that just morphed into the real title. 

The decision was mostly about marketing. It's easier to sell ppv's when the main event is for a title. 

The interim title is meaningless but I don't have a problem with the UFC doing it. Top fights should all be 5 rounds; it's a truer test. 

Personally I would rather have seen Chuck and Wandy fight two more rounds than go to a decision after 3.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

zarny said:


> The UFC wanted the rubber match between Hughes and GSP to be a 5 round fight. I am sure both fighters wanted it that way as well.
> 
> When Mir was injured an interim title was created initially. He was out so long that just morphed into the real title.
> 
> ...


Yeah, but a broken femur and herniated disc are on two different ends of the injury spectrum. Most of the time he was out was due to the stupid ass show. Not the injury.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

they wanted to make it a 5 round fight....so they made it for the interim belt.....i'm glad they did


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## Redrum (Jan 30, 2008)

zarny said:


> The UFC wanted the rubber match between Hughes and GSP to be a 5 round fight. I am sure both fighters wanted it that way as well.
> 
> When Mir was injured an interim title was created initially. He was out so long that just morphed into the real title.
> 
> ...


i would have loved to see chuck and wandi go for two more as well. i also think that GSP did the right thing by not recognizing the interim championship after he won the match with hughes. GSP is a class act in my book.


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## zarny (Mar 4, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Yeah, but a broken femur and herniated disc are on two different ends of the injury spectrum. Most of the time he was out was due to the stupid ass show. Not the injury.




Neither the UFC nor Serra knew how long he would be out when he was first injured. Herniated discs can end up taking a year to recover from.

The primary reason was simply that the UFC wanted the fight to be 5 rounds. There is no way to tell how long a fight will last based on previous fights. Look at Sylvia and Arlovski.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Why would it matter how long Serra is out for? Was the injury career threatening? I didn't think it was. So, in terms of titles, there shouldn't have been an interim fight until it was decided the current champ is no longer the champ.



If he is out for a year you cant put a division on hold, especially not when it already has been to TUF for how long, interim def.an intervening time; interval; meantime: in the interim. 
2. a temporary or provisional arrangement; stopgap; makeshift 

Interim does not mean a permanant replacement Sera was never stripped of his title.


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## silvawand (Oct 15, 2006)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> I wasn't bitching about it. At least I wasn't trying to. I just feel bad for the guy. He is the champ. Many champs have had injuries and not been able to fight (Page and Franklin of late) I didn't see any interim fights in those divisions.
> 
> Of course, you can market GSP better he is a God in MMA. So, why, by your own admission, would you have to come up with a gimic for a Hughes vs. GSP rubber match? A match that no one saw going past the 3rd. Both of their previous fights went 2 rounds or less. Why would this one be any different.


Sorry, guess I took it a little too far with the "bitching" comment. I guess I was just sick of hearing people complain about the UFC making Hughes vs St.Pierre 3 an interim title fight. I really don't see what the big deal is at all.

Just because there is an interim champ because the real champ can't defend for a year isn't taking anything away from Serra. Who knows how long he could have been out for?


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I made a thread about this when it happened and I got flammed. It was a fucked up situation for Serra and if he was a more popular fighter there would probably have been outrage.

I understood why the UFC did it since they wanted a 5 round fight however the fact they put an interm title out there when Serra said he was going to be back in a couple of months wasn't very fair to him.

It was kinda messed up for Serra because it's not his fault he didn't defend his title for so long it's Dana's and they gave Sean Sherk a long time off after his injury before he finally fought Franca.


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

If GSP won it great. If Hughes won it, great, we'd get to see the hughes vs serra fight that was supposed to happen. Win win I suppose.


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## Buster Rough (Mar 4, 2008)

> Most of the time he was out was due to the *stupid ass show*.


You got that right.


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## cabby (Sep 15, 2006)

Was just an interim type of thing. Doesn't really mean anything to me, theres lots of guys who could be second best in almost any weight class. The whole interim thing is stupid but it keeps people from not bitching about titles just sitting there.


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## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> I wasn't bitching about it. At least I wasn't trying to. I just feel bad for the guy. He is the champ. Many champs have had injuries and not been able to fight (Page and Franklin of late) I didn't see any interim fights in those divisions.
> 
> Of course, you can market GSP better he is a God in MMA. So, why, by your own admission, would you have to come up with a gimic for a Hughes vs. GSP rubber match? A match that no one saw going past the 3rd. Both of their previous fights went 2 rounds or less. Why would this one be any different.


Dude you cant just assume that a fight wont go past 3 rounds because of previous fights. Now obviously it didnt go past 3 rounds but whatever I think interim belt was justified because Serra hasnt defended the belt in a year. Now he gets his chance and if he wins he proves he is a real champion and there will be no more discussion about interim titles at 170. At this point though who cares, this will all be taken care of this saturday. Cant wait.


On another note I think that the UFC needs to be able to assign like a "superfight" tag to non-title fights that are main or co main events that are 5 rounds with no title affiliation. Like Rashad/Bisping. Now, god knows no one wanted to see two more rounds of that crap but the idea of having certain fights that are like for number one contendership be five rounds would be great IMO.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Kamikaze145- "On another note I think that the UFC needs to be able to assign like a "superfight" tag to non-title fights that are main or co main events that are 5 rounds with no title affiliation. Like Rashad/Bisping. Now, god knows no one wanted to see two more rounds of that crap but the idea of having certain fights that are like for number one contendership be five rounds would be great IMO."

That's exactly my thoughts on it. Even though you never know if a fight is going to go the distance or 20 seconds I like the possibility of it going longer than 3 rounds for main events. 

As far as the interim belt, I was just glad the fight could have gone longer if need be. When GSP said the belt was "a nice collection" but that Serra was still the champ was how I thought about it. 

The TUF delays are what really annoy me.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> This is not news...It just kind of dawned on me.
> 
> Serra is the champ of WW right? i really don't understand why the UFC even made the Hughes vs. St. Pierre a "title fight".
> 
> ...


Serra was out indefinitely by his own words, he had yet to defend the belt (still hasn't), and the PPV was already scheduled to have a championship fight. I think you're being silly.


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## Onganju (May 26, 2006)

Toxic said:


> If he is out for a year you cant put a division on hold, especially not when it already has been to TUF for how long, interim def.an intervening time; interval; meantime: in the interim.
> 2. a temporary or provisional arrangement; stopgap; makeshift
> 
> Interim does not mean a permanant replacement Sera was never stripped of his title.


Best reply to the TS is right there. The situation is pretty clear cut. Serra was going to be out for an undetermined amount of time, and the championship was already on hold for close to 6 months because of TUF. It doesn't do well to put the championship on hold for any longer, so the Interim championship was put into place. 

It's the same reason why Nogueira is the "Interim" HW Champion. It's not a slight to Randy Couture, it is just that the heavyweight Title can't be held up for an undetermined amount of time (this time due to legal proceedings). They would do the same with any of the divisions or title holders otherwise.


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## raymardo (Jun 21, 2006)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Why would it matter how long Serra is out for? Was the injury career threatening? I didn't think it was. So, in terms of titles, there shouldn't have been an interim fight until it was decided the current champ is no longer the champ.


Not true.

If the current champ is no longer the champ, then the title is vacated and two other fighters will fight for the vacated championship.

An interim champ is a champion while the injured champion can't defend the title. When the champ is healed, the interim champ faces the champ to see who is the "true" champ.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

kamikaze145 said:


> On another note I think that the UFC needs to be able to assign like a "superfight" tag to non-title fights that are main or co main events that are 5 rounds with no title affiliation. Like Rashad/Bisping. Now, god knows no one wanted to see two more rounds of that crap but the idea of having certain fights that are like for number one contendership be five rounds would be great IMO.


 I like the idea but next time Lidell/Wandy would be a better example that will get alot more people on your bandwagon.


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

raymardo said:


> Not true.
> 
> If the current champ is no longer the champ, then the title is vacated and two other fighters will fight for the vacated championship.
> 
> An interim champ is a champion while the injured champion can't defend the title. When the champ is healed, the interim champ faces the champ to see who is the "true" champ.


Well said Champ.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

I guess in the time that has passed I have forgotten many of htese points. It really wasn't a big deal they made the fight five rounds, only they came up with a title match for it. It really isn't that big of a deal to me, just thought it was kind of crappy how Serra has been treated differently then any other champion of late. A herniated disc can cause problems indefinitely, but the corrective surgery will put you out for 4-6 months in almost all cases. So, that really isn't indefinite. 

I really didn't pay attention to it being a big deal at the time of the fight, so I am sorry if I pissed off some by bringing it up again. I have only recently begun to spend more time on the forums lately.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

raymardo said:


> Not true.
> 
> If the current champ is no longer the champ, then the title is vacated and two other fighters will fight for the vacated championship.
> 
> An interim champ is a champion while the injured champion can't defend the title. When the champ is healed, the interim champ faces the champ to see who is the "true" champ.


And when said champ is no longer the champ and two fighters fight fo rht evacated championship, what is that called?................oh yeah, an interim title fight. Like after BJ left, Sylvia suspended, Barnett kicked out, and Couture left. If your scenario were correct, BJ would not have had to fight anyone before fighting for the title at 170 upon his return. Same for Sylvia after he tested positive. So, it actually is kind of true.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*Card of Quitters*

What is the deal with fighters not being ready? 

First Starnes then Lutter. Wasn't surprised by Lutter, probably shouldn't have been by Starnes either. I think that is rediculous. You have a job. Just go out there and do it. Lazy bastards. 

As for Starnes, I think he doesn't want to be a fighter at all. I saw that in his fight against Grove in TUF. The guy seems to have little desire to actually fight. Maybe fear, maybe something else. I don't know.


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## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

Well it's unfair to say Lutter quit, he was breathing hard after the first round was over, then he got hit with that head kick that pretty much rocked his world. He just ended up having no cardio.

I agree with Kalib having no desire to fight, dude hangs out with Mark Laimen.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

How about the fact that Lutter is 34 and still can't hide a take down attempt with some sort of offensive strike.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Easy for people to say with a keyboard and not in the cage. Personally, I wouldn't let the world, potentially, see me as a quitter or not prepared.


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## stitch1z (Dec 9, 2007)

And what about Mccarthy??? Jeeeeeez!!!


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## Grappler125 (Jan 23, 2007)

If I were Dana White, I would definately find Starnes in the locker room and tell him he no longer has a f**king job. That was the worst display of effort that I have ever seen. He had already given up in the first round. DUDE, IF YOU GIVE UP THAT EARLY, TAKE THE F**KING KO SO WE CAN MOVE ON THE NEXT FIGHT. That was 15 minutes of my life that I will never get back, and I'm really upset about it. The most entertaining part was Nate Quarry's Running Man impression. That was kinda funny. I was actually really disappointed with Lutter, but only so much because he had a good first round, then gassed hard in the second. It was only a matter of time after that. And with McCarthy, I don't really think he quit, I think that was a legit injury.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Terry77 said:


> Easy for people to say with a keyboard and not in the cage. Personally, I wouldn't let the world, potentially, see me as a quitter or not prepared.


If I were a *professional* fighter, I wouldn't disrespect myself and the fans by coming in with a gameplan like Starnes, cardio like Lutter, or lack of anything like Captain Miserable.

I would say that anywhere. Just this is my media right now. Hardly a professional approach taken by those guys tonight.


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## DTL (Apr 5, 2008)

Geez.. they could give me a couple grand to run around the cage and get my ass kicked. I would at least let the guy KO me and give the fans something to cheer about!


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Grappler125 said:


> If I were Dana White, I would definately find Starnes in the locker room and tell him he no longer has a f**king job. That was the worst display of effort that I have ever seen. He had already given up in the first round. DUDE, IF YOU GIVE UP THAT EARLY, TAKE THE F**KING KO SO WE CAN MOVE ON THE NEXT FIGHT. That was 15 minutes of my life that I will never get back, and I'm really upset about it. The most entertaining part was Nate Quarry's Running Man impression. That was kinda funny. I was actually really disappointed with Lutter, but only so much because he had a good first round, then gassed hard in the second. It was only a matter of time after that. And with McCarthy, I don't really think he quit, I think that was a legit injury.


I don't think McCarthy quit either. I just don't think he has very much talent and once his only talent failed him. Bisping turned it on.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I didn't expect much from Starnes or McCarthy, but Lutter really caught me off guard. I understand that fighters gas, but his tank was running on empty far too soon, which was sad, given that he had to have known who he was up against, as well as the magnitude of his bout. As someone said, either in this thread or another, the man has all the tools and gifts in the world, and it's a shame to see him lose on something along the lines of a complete lack of cardio. 

I'm still rootin' for the man, mind you. I hope we see him back, because when he's on, he's on. He's also one of very few whom have even put up a fight against Anderson. I was hoping he'd get a second chance, but it's not too likely as of this point and time.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Canadian Psycho said:


> I didn't expect much from Starnes or McCarthy, but Lutter really caught me off guard. I understand that fighters gas, but his tank was running on empty far too soon, which was sad, given that he had to have known who he was up against, as well as the magnitude of his bout. As someone said, either in this thread or another, the man has all the tools and gifts in the world, and it's a shame to see him lose on something along the lines of a complete lack of cardio. I'm still rootin' for the man, mind you. I hope we see him back, because when he's on, he's on.



I completely respect him as a person, but not as a fighter. He has done this too many times. His cardio is way worse then BJ's used to be. And he doesn;t have the talent to cover it up. What the hell has he been doing in training? I just paid money to watch a guy do everything I could do against Rich Franklin, except almost secure an arm. But that almost got him just as far as I would have gotten. All I saw was one good takedown followed by 20 half-ass ones that he went into after throwing ZERO strikes. I wonder why he couldn't get the takedown.


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## BBoE (Jun 8, 2007)

Terry77 said:


> Easy for people to say with a keyboard and not in the cage.


It's not even remotely necessary to have the same profession or experiences as someone to be critical of their performance. It's their chosen profession, so they should do their job. Second, as people who put money in the pockets of these fighters we've got every right to voice our displeasure if they don't do what they're being paid to do.


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## MMAmatt (Apr 8, 2007)

lol lutters not a quitter, hes just got no cardio AT ALL lol.shit that was embarrasing, he totally bunked after a few min. If i was him, id be ashamed of myself, go into the gym and run , run , run for weeks.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

I think its ok to blast Starnes, but Lutter just gassed. To call him a quitter is over the top, considering he got oh so close to tapping Rich.


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## DropKick (Apr 19, 2007)

kds13 said:


> I think its ok to blast Starnes, but Lutter just gassed. To call him a quitter is over the top, considering he got oh so close to tapping Rich.


I agree. I wouldn't call Lutter a quitter. He was getting tired but that head kick he took really took it out of him. He was hurt badly there and was really out of the fight at that point.


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## Combat_HapKiDo (Jul 9, 2006)

Lutter took some nasty shots to the head and once that round house kick nailed him in the head he was done. I agree that his cardio was suspect but I don't think he quit - his body just couldn't go anymore. I don't know about you guys but I've been in a position while sparring where I've misjudged the time left in the round and totally wore myself out and didn't have the energy to even lift my hands up above my chest. It's a terrible feeling to have someone coming at you and there is no way you can physically defend yourself so I give the benefit of the doubt to Lutter.

As for Starnes, I agree that he seemed to quit right from the start. All he wanted to do was avoid any strikes from Quarry and run away from him. And he still had lots of gas at the end of the fight so there was no excuse for his performance. I don't think we're going to see much more of him in the Octagon.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

It really says something when your home country boos you, and cheers the visitor.


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## TheBrickhouse (Mar 27, 2008)

Yeah they should of showed the Demian Maia fight. That triangle choke was sick......Knocked Herman the f*** out cold. Enough running man BS show guys like that who always put on a show not these TUF pussies! Maia is the future of MMA!

-Brickhouse


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## mitchyb (Apr 22, 2007)

DTL said:


> Geez.. they could give me a couple grand to run around the cage and get my ass kicked. I would at least let the guy KO me and give the fans something to cheer about!


LOLZ lets be serious... i know your joking but nobody likes to get KO'd theres no putting a price tag on that and the more you let someone hit you... the more chance you might not wake up lol.


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## mitchyb (Apr 22, 2007)

kds13 said:


> I think its ok to blast Starnes, but Lutter just gassed. To call him a quitter is over the top, considering he got oh so close to tapping Rich.



I agree with that.. We will definitely see more of Travis Lutter... On the whole it was a good fight. It wasn't boring and it was a class act fight. I like seeing Rich Franklin in a good battle. Props to Lutter.. if it weren't for Franklin's heart and experience then he would be the victor right now.


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## sarahercoli (Apr 20, 2008)

BWoods said:


> Well it's unfair to say Lutter quit, he was breathing hard after the first round was over, then he got hit with that head kick that pretty much rocked his world. He just ended up having no cardio.
> 
> I agree with Kalib having no desire to fight, dude hangs out with Mark Laimen.


True. Seemed that his cardio level wasn't that great and plus that head kick was intense.
Kalib was a joke.


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## silvawand (Oct 15, 2006)

I don't want to see Kalib to fight in the UFC again, he does not deserve to be here. I alway tried to defend him, and say he's got heart somewhere in there, but he really proved me wrong tonight. He's got no heart no hunger, and it is pathetic.

Lutter didn't quit, he's just got shitty cardio.

McCarthy didn't quit, he just got his ass kicked by a much better fighter like he was brought in to do, he's not a UFC caliber fighter.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

Lutter just got beat. Can't say much about that.

Starnes is a joke. I hope to never see him in the octagon again.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

starnes didn't deserve to be on the main card in the first place


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*Champs....*

Do you guys think Dana is happy about who his champs are right now?

Sure, he would love for Couture to still be HW champ, but the guys he has right now are more marketable than anyone else in the divisions aren't they?

You got BJ and GSP in LW and WW respectively. No one else could out draw those two (imho).

Then you have Silva at MW. Sure, Franklin might be more popular with Americans, but Silva is by far the most dominant fighter ever to fight in the UFC. 

Rampage at LHW. There are few with a similar personality. Love it or hate it it gets you interested in his fights. Tito and Chuck are probably more popular, but Rampage is surely comparable in a marketing sense.

Then you Nog at HW. One of the top 2 or 3 HW's for the past what 5 years. The only guys that would be better are Fedor or Couture (or Arlovski before he became skiddish)but none of them are in the UFC. So, he is left with the best at that weight holding the title. 

Thoughts...


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## Arlovski_Fan (Apr 25, 2007)

I think he wishes they were all Americans, but as for exciting fighters I'm sure he's happy.


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## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

Arlovski_Fan said:


> I think he wishes they were all Americans, but as for exciting fighters I'm sure he's happy.


Personally, I think that might be good for the UFC's economy, but as an international fan I gotta say I really, really prefer to have varying nationalities on the champs. 2 brazilians, 1 canadian and 2 Americans. An ok mix.

Also, If he plans on making this an international sport there better be different nationalities competing at the top. Also, one of his main for the UFC's awesomeness arguments is that fighters from different nationalities get cheered on, so...


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## 70seven (Mar 5, 2007)

I'm sure he's happy these are all fighters the UFC invested in and now it paid off.

BJ Penn: Made him TUF coach.
GSP: Used him to open the market to Canada.
Anderson Silva: Got him from Pride, before Pride fell through.
Rampage: Same as Anderson Silva.
Nog: First fighter to be signed to UFC after PRIDE was bought out.


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## JT42 (Dec 31, 2006)

Dana would really prefer Liddell as the LHW champ. Thats why he gave Rampage to him so fast and thats why Liddell will be getting another title shot very soon. 

Also I am sure he would've preferred to keep Randy as champ for publicity but you cant complain with Nog


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## Pyros (Apr 16, 2008)

I'm pretty sure he would prefer Lidell at LHW and Franklin at MW (Anderson does not speak english), too bad that Franklin can't beat Silva, and Lidell is going down again when he faces Rampage (unless the championship changes hands of course).


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

70seven said:


> I'm sure he's happy these are all fighters the UFC invested in and now it paid off.
> 
> BJ Penn: Made him TUF coach.
> GSP: Used him to open the market to Canada.
> ...


Silva came from Cage Rage not Pride. Common misconception.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Obviously he would prefer Chuck and Rich. i believe I stated that in my OP. But is he happy with the champions that are currently in place?


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

Lets look at the champs:

Nog- shows tremendous heart and rarely has a boring fight. Boring fights are what Dana doesn't want. I think every fan can appreciate Nog.

Rampage- has the personality and the skill. He also beat the fighter that the UFC was marketing as pretyy unbeatable in Chuck, so this (to me at least) has left Rampage held in a higher regard in the eyes of fans.

Silva- One of the most complete fighters, hasn't had a boring fight in the UFC, and most fights end in KO or TKO which is what the casual fans want.

GSP- See Silva, also presents a cash cow when the UFC goes to Canada.

BJ- Has a love him or hate him personality which will always get him talked about. Even the fans that hate him will still tune in to see his fights because of how good he is.

I would have to thnk that Dana is pretty damn happy with his champs.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*Why do so many think Fitch could beat GSP?*

Let me preface this by saying, yes, I am a huge GSP fan. That is not to say, however, I am an annoying nuthugger that thinks he is unbeatable. I am objective fan of ahim and all my faves and will try to analyze fights in that way.

That being said, Fitch presents little to nothing that GSP has not dominated already. Kos, Hughes, Sherk, and Trigg are all better at wrestling in my opinion. (not a wrestling expert, but the way it translates in MMA it looks like these guys have been better at that). And I believe that both Spratt and Penn are better and more technical strikers then Fitch. Granted, GSP has not fought anyone that is as good at both, but Kos is pretty close. 

I just don't see how Fitch can win this fight. It will certianly be one of those tough, grind it out type fights that Fitch always has, and won't be a highleight reel for either guy. I just don't see it. Someone enlighten me on where Fitch will beat GSP.


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## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

I have heard from most they think GSP will win and he is certainly the favorite. GSP is kind of a bad matchup for him but Fitch is solid and his standup is good enough to make it a fight if GSP wants to stand. Maybe Fitch will find a way to put him on his back. GSP should win but Fitch will be able to make it more competitive than Matt Serra was able to.


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

IMO Fitch represents the toughest opponent for GSP in the WW division. 
Stylistically they are very similar so it would be interesting to see how the fight evolves and I could see it go 5 rounds. 
However, I still feel that GSP would win.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

RushFan said:


> IMO Fitch represents the toughest opponent for GSP in the WW division.
> Stylistically they are very similar so it would be interesting to see how the fight evolves and I could see it go 5 rounds.
> However, I still feel that GSP would win.


I thnk Fitch is the second best fighter at WW, but not his toughest opponent. I say that because they are the same fighter except GSP is better at everything. 

I think Alves would be a tougher opponent because he has the power to knock out GSP with one shot and his TDD is better then Fitch's. At least it was in his last fight. Granted Karo's td's are not the same as GSP, but they are unorthodox and hard to stop (ask Diego).


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I think fitch could beat gsp. But I would be very surprised if he did, and I would prob lose some money on that fight.


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## doburg717 (Apr 25, 2008)

nearly everyone ive seen posting on this fight has been saying fitch stands no chance. 
i see gsp as a more complete version of fitch and gsp winning though many people have been completely writing fitch off with no chance which is really unjustified.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

doburg717 said:


> nearly everyone ive seen posting on this fight has been saying fitch stands no chance.
> i see gsp as a more complete version of fitch and gsp winning though many people have been completely writing fitch off with no chance which is really unjustified.


I am not going to write any fighter off completely, but it is hard to find an avenue to which Fitch is better then GSP or could beat him at. Although, Fitch is great at in-fight adjustments and that is something no one has been able to do against GSP.


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## Desert Fox (Jul 23, 2007)

I'd like to point out something that is talked about very little on this forum. 

Just because GSP has dominated wrestlers in the past, doesn't necessairly mean he can beat any wrestler he fights against from now on. Every wrestler isn't the same and their timings are different even if by a split second, attitude, agressiveness, mentality, knowing when to attack & defend, and instinc are all going to weigh very heavily in every fight.

Jon Fitch has some really good timing, he knows how to win fights, and I like where his head has been at inside fights. It's like the fog of war doesn't apply to him. He's a threat to the title, and don't get me wrong GSP is as good as they get, but counting out Jon Fitch's game because GSP has beat wrestlers is a little pigheaded.

Fitch could beat GSP, GSP could beat Fitch. If they fought 10x I'm sure it wouldn't be 10-0 either man's way. It will be an interesting match and I think Fitch could get in GSP's head.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Desert Fox said:


> I'd like to point out something that is talked about very little on this forum.
> 
> Just because GSP has dominated wrestlers in the past, doesn't necessairly mean he can beat any wrestler he fights against from now on. Every wrestler isn't the same and their timings are different even if by a split second, attitude, agressiveness, mentality, knowing when to attack & defend, and instinc are all going to weigh very heavily in every fight.
> 
> ...


Interesting points...though I don't think my counting out of Fitch is pigheaded...maybe ignorant because I know very little about wrestling. However, this is not a wrestling match and GSP has clearly been the best MMA wrestler at 170. Of course Fitch could beat GSP, but all I am asking is how is he going to do that?


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## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

I think the question should be why do some many people doubt Fitch could not beat GSP? In my opinion GSP is going to win but that doesn't mean I am ruling Fitch out by any means. I think Fitch has good standup and is a very strong WW and can potentially KO GSP if GSP gets sloppy, and has a chance to grind out a decision or even sub him.

So I think the ones who rule Fitch out completely aren't thinking rationally becuase Fitch can make something happen in this fight, but I still think GSP will win :thumb02:


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

still think GSP wins the fight more than 5 out of 10 times....GSP has the best balance and center out of any fighter in that division....4 sho:thumb02:


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

So many? That's funny, I hardly see anyone saying that Fitch will beat GSP.

Many aren't even giving him a chance, despite having other tools besides wrestling. He's good off his back, has solid striking, a solid chin, good sub defense and is experienced. He won't be small like Matt Serra, and he's way better on his feet than Matt Hughes.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Damone said:


> So many? That's funny, I hardly see anyone saying that Fitch will beat GSP.
> 
> Many aren't even giving him a chance, despite having other tools besides wrestling. He's good off his back, has solid striking, a solid chin, good sub defense and is experienced. He won't be small like Matt Serra, and he's way better on his feet than Matt Hughes.


I haven't been on the forum recently, but before the Serra fight (when everyone just accepted the fact that GSP was going to win). People were saying Fitch could beat GSP quite often. 

I admitted at some point already that Fitch is a more complete fighter then most guys he has fought. I don't thiink any one thing he does is that much better then GSP enough to say he could beat him there. That is all. I certainly give Fitch a shot because he is a really good fighter, I just think this match-up favors GSP.


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## Shamrock-Ortiz (Sep 22, 2006)

Damone said:


> So many? That's funny, I hardly see anyone saying that Fitch will beat GSP.
> 
> Many aren't even giving him a chance, despite having other tools besides wrestling. He's good off his back, has solid striking, a solid chin, good sub defense and is experienced. He won't be small like Matt Serra, and he's way better on his feet than Matt Hughes.


Yeah so many people make topics saying "why does everyone think....." when actually they don't at all.

Personally I don't give Fitch much of a chance, I think GSP dominates him. Fitch is a great fighter, GSP is a truely outstanding fighter.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Stylistically GSP has Fitch's number, he's better on the ground, he's better standing, and he has better MMA wrestling. Jon Fitch struggled with the wrestling of guys like Roan Carneiro, and the striking of Chris Wilson. We haven't seen Fitch on his back against a strong wrestler with good MMA-BJJ, and I think that's where he's going to have problems.


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## drockh (Nov 17, 2006)

I think fitch will beat GSP.


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## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

I've seen on other forums saying that Fitch will beat GSP but GSP will probably just do what he has been doing in his last couple fights for the win.


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## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

To me this is one of those fights that I'm not nervous about or have any doubt of it. I'm sure that GSP will dominate Fitch either for 5 rounds or will GnP him into a TKO. There's always a chance for any top tier fighter out there but from what we've seen out of both of these guys GSP does everything better.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

I would not say that Fitch has 0% chance to win as I think he is a very good and tough fighter. He's found a way to grind through his opponents and showed a very good all-around game. Personally I just think GSP has better tools all-around than Fitch does, and though Fitch used to be a powerlifting freak I think GSP is overall more athletic and stronger. I think GSP will see how he's faring in the stand-up and then take Fitch down to pound on him. I think Fitch has the groundgame to limit the damage he takes and he could take GSP down- if he does I see GSP working it back to the feet and replying with his own takedown.

I see this as a competitive fight and I wouldn't be shocked to see this go the distance and be a UD for GSP or I see Fitch getting tired and out-worked and being taken out in the late 3rd or 4th round.

Does he have a shot? Yup he does- I just don't think he will. GSP will be hungry to actually DEFEND his title this go 'round.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

drockh said:


> I think fitch will beat GSP.


Considering this particular thread was started to address statements like htis, care to elaborate.


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## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

anyone who thinks fitch could beat GSP is kidding themselves.

GSP will avoid all of Fitchs' takedowns with ease and in turn but him on his back at will.

Being Fitch was getting tooled for a good portion of his fight with Chris Wilson, I highly doubt he'll be able to handle St. Pierre's unorthodox stand-up.

Also I give GSP the edge in conditioning as well as game-planning too. 

Fitch is good but GSP is 2 levels ahead of him in almost all areas that have to do with fighting.

GSP by TKO (stoppage) or Submission


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## drockh (Nov 17, 2006)

fitch by RNC


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## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

drockh said:


> fitch by RNC


Okay ESV, care to elaborate rather than using 3 word posts?


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## drockh (Nov 17, 2006)

southpaw447 said:


> Okay ESV, care to elaborate rather than using 3 word posts?


I think fitch will come into the fight in better condition. I believe he will do okay in standup since he has a better chin than GSP but more than likely will try to take it to the mat. Since its a 5 round fight im betting on GSP expensing his energy in the early rounds and fitch pulling out a submission in round 4 or 5. We all know GSP is explosive but I cant see him doing that for 5 rounds. 

Fitch being the smarter fighter will pull off the win..


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## Baby Jay D. (Apr 25, 2008)

i cant see any way for fitch to win this fight except for a freakish result like GSP v serra 1.

fitch struggled against chris wilson in the strikling department and he is nowhere near the level of gsp in that area. add to that gsp has better mma wrestling, conditioning and bjj and it doesn't add up well for fitch.

GSP by sub in round two.:thumb02:


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## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

drockh said:


> I think fitch will come into the fight in better condition. I believe he will do okay in standup since he has a better chin than GSP but more than likely will try to take it to the mat. Since its a 5 round fight im betting on GSP expensing his energy in the early rounds and fitch pulling out a submission in round 4 or 5. We all know GSP is explosive but I cant see him doing that for 5 rounds.


What makes you think it's going to go all five? GSP has never fought longer than 3 rounds and after 3 rounders he never appears to be fatigued at all.

Like when he whomped on Jason Miller for 3 rounds or even after the 3 round war with BJ Penn.

I think GSP is probably the most well conditioned athlete in the sport next to Sherk and maybe Franklin:dunno:

Also I think GSP has fough better fighters than Fitch and taken them out in under 3 rounds and I don't think Fitch is going to be the one to push him to the later rounds



drockh said:


> Fitch being the smarter fighter will pull off the win..


Everybody's got a plan until they get hit (or feel teh riddum) 

Fitch has never felt the Riddum


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

> anyone who thinks fitch could beat GSP is kidding themselves.
> 
> GSP will avoid all of Fitchs' takedowns with ease and in turn but him on his back at will.
> 
> ...


You're underrating Chris Wilson, who is seriously a tough opponent. 

You're also underrating Fitch, who has more than just wrestling. He's actually solid off his back, and could look for subs, neutralize GnP or find a way to get back up. 

St. Pierre's not that great standing. People often think he is, but they're wrong, he's not. St. Pierre throws a jab and a Superman punch, that's it for his hands. He throws good kicks, but so does Jon Fitch. Fitch has better boxing.

Fitch trains at AKA, so there's no doubt he'll be thinking up a gameplan. 

Contrary to popular belief, Fitch actually has a shot here. He's experienced, has solid striking, a good sub game, solid chin, solid cardio and is good off his back. He's also a solid wrestler and is way bigger than Matt Serra. People will also say, "Oh, he also beat Koscheck, who is just like Fitch," and those people would be wrong, since Koscheck is not as experienced as Jon Fitch is, nor has he been put on his back like Fitch has.


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## The Finisher (Mar 23, 2008)

Fitch is not a main event fighter. I am going to bet all my credits that GSP wins.


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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

Damone said:


> You're underrating Chris Wilson, who is seriously a tough opponent.
> 
> You're also underrating Fitch, who has more than just wrestling. He's actually solid off his back, and could look for subs, neutralize GnP or find a way to get back up.
> 
> ...


Umm I agree that Fitch has a shot to win this, but it's kind of a bold statement to just say GSP's standup isn't good. Umm have you sparred with him or something? It doesn't matter if he jabs and throws superman punches, it's worked for him in pretty much every fight except for Serra 1. I would like to see Fitch and GSP standup just to gauge where there striking is actually at. But saying he doesn't have standup when he nearly ko'd Heiron on the feet, rocked Hughes, and schooled Koscheck isn't right imo. His striking may be the weakest part of his game but he is definitely a threat standing.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Didn't work for him against Penn.

Sherk was tagging him, too.

GSP gets tagged way too often.

Also, I never said it wasn't good, I said it wasn't great, which it isn't, because great strikers have solid defense and don't allow themselves to get hit. GSP doesn't have solid defense, nor does he have any head movement.

Also, Hieron was just a wrestler back when he faced GSP.

Hughes, well, have you seen Hughes try to trade with people? It's not pretty.

Koscheck got desperate and was trying to Matt Serra the fight against GSP.


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

Damone said:


> You're underrating Chris Wilson, who is seriously a tough opponent.
> 
> You're also underrating Fitch, who has more than just wrestling. He's actually solid off his back, and could look for subs, neutralize GnP or find a way to get back up.
> 
> ...


Is there a particular fight besides the Carneiro fight that shows he works well off his back? I'm only familiar with his fights in the UFC and against Joslin, I have not seen his other fights on the smaller shows. 

Regarding the outcome of this fight, I see this as being a very close, competitive fight, but I just feel that GSP is just a bit better than Fitch in every department - yes, even striking. GSP mainly uses his strikes to setup his TDs and I think his transition game is better than Fitch's. Hell, Fitch's striking is not much better than GSP's - and neither really seem to have KO power - so I can see GSP trying strike more with Fitch and really confusing him.

The experience difference will definitely help Fitch but even though he has more experience than Koscheck, he's still at a disadvantage when you compare him to GSP's experience. I'm definitely not counting out Fitch but I just don't see him posing any threats to GSP. Like I think Alves would be a more dangerous opponent for GSP since he's a better striker and he also has a BJJ blackbelt.

I'll be really surprised to see Fitch put GSP on his back or submit him off his back. GSP has a way better sprawl and has shown to have excellent top control. Besides the Hughes fight, where he got submitted, I don't recall him ever being in any real danger from a submission when he was on top (yes, I seen the BJ and Karo fights). I also recall that Fitch had a lot of trouble with Wilson's range and I'm wondering who has the reach advantage of the two. This fight will definitely be a tough challenge for both these guys but I'm putting my money with GSP.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Damone said:


> You're underrating Chris Wilson, who is seriously a tough opponent.


He's tough but he's nowhere near being a top tier WW fighter right now. 



Damone said:


> You're also underrating Fitch, who has more than just wrestling. He's actually solid off his back, and could look for subs, neutralize GnP or find a way to get back up.


His wrestling's simply not that good. They always bring up that he's the Perdue team captain, but they fail to mention how his amateur record really isn't anything to be proud of.

He may be solid off his back, but that really means little. Jon Fitch has never been underneath someone that mixes BJJ and ground and pound as well as Georges. Even then, GSP's sat in BJ's guard, and Serra's guard, avoiding submissions and sweeps from both. Fitch's ground game is good, but once again, it's really nothing Georges hasn't seen before.



Damone said:


> St. Pierre's not that great standing. People often think he is, but they're wrong, he's not. St. Pierre throws a jab and a Superman punch, that's it for his hands. He throws good kicks, but so does Jon Fitch. Fitch has better boxing.


He's not great in a Paul Taylor or Paul Daley way, but his stand-up is still among the best in the UFC WW division, mainly because of the way he mixes a diverse array of strikes. He's not easy to read, he drops his level, he's constantly on the balls of his feet. Matt Serra was confused as hell as to whether GSP was going to shoot or strike, he even said so in the post-fight interview. 

Jon Fitch telegraphs everything he throws, and he doesn't even have power in his hands. He was rocked by Chris Wilson whose striking is decent, so I question his "great chin" which people are touting for some reason.



Damone said:


> Fitch trains at AKA, so there's no doubt he'll be thinking up a gameplan.


So what? That didn't help Koscheck when GSP bulldozed his ass for 3 rounds, did it? GSP's training with Greg Jackson too, so really camps aren't going to make a difference this time around. 



Damone said:


> Contrary to popular belief, Fitch actually has a shot here. He's experienced, has solid striking, a good sub game, solid chin, solid cardio and is good off his back.


lol everyone has a shot at winning, that's an obvious statement to make. He's "experienced" as you say, but his resume is laughable in comparison to the guys Georges has faced, and destroyed. Experience won't be a factor. :dunno:

I've already discussed the factors you mentioned, with the exception of cardio, which I really don't think will be an issue for GSP.



Damone said:


> He's also a solid wrestler and is way bigger than Matt Serra. People will also say, "Oh, he also beat Koscheck, who is just like Fitch," and those people would be wrong, since Koscheck is not as experienced as Jon Fitch is, nor has he been put on his back like Fitch has.


He's not Koscheck, I agree. His wrestling's worse, his striking's a little better, and he's better off his back. That's really about it. 

Koscheck did just fine off his back "surviving" which is really all I think Fitch can do from there. :dunno:


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Fedor>all said:


> He's tough but he's nowhere near being a top tier WW fighter right now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That pretty much sums up my feelings on that post too.


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## Danomac (Oct 15, 2006)

It will go 5 rounds. Easily. People seem to write off Fitch way too quickly.

Gotta laugh at the guy who said to elaborate a post of another member when his was the same thing just stretched out.

Fitch is his biggest competition at 170. I'm gonna laugh when Fitch gives GSP a major run for his money and people are like, "damn, Fitch is ******* good".


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## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

Danomac said:


> It will go 5 rounds. Easily. People seem to write off Fitch way too quickly.
> 
> Gotta laugh at the guy who said to elaborate a post of another member when his was the same thing just stretched out.
> 
> Fitch is his biggest competition at 170. I'm gonna laugh when Fitch gives GSP a major run for his money and people are like, "damn, Fitch is ******* good".


Keep dreaming. I find alves and shields to be a bigger threat than fitch


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

> He's tough but he's nowhere near being a top tier WW fighter right now.


Neither was Matt Serra when he brutally KO'ed GSP. You don't have to be, "top tier" to beat someone.



> His wrestling's simply not that good.


That's simply horseshit. Just because he got outwrestled by Roan? Roan, himself, is a pretty solid wrestler and a legitimately solid fighter, so people using him as an example of Fitch's wrestling is unfair. Diego couldn't do anything to Fitch, and I'd consider Diego a pretty solid wrestler, at least in an MMA setting, and I'd also classify Josh Burkman as a pretty solid wrestler. Brock Larson, too. Am I saying he & GSP will have some sort of stalemate? Of course not, I'm saying that his wrestling is solid. It could help him at least stuff a takedown.



> He may be solid off his back, but that really means little. Jon Fitch has never been underneath someone that mixes BJJ and ground and pound as well as Georges. Even then, GSP's sat in BJ's guard, and Serra's guard, avoiding submissions and sweeps from both. Fitch's ground game is good, but once again, it's really nothing Georges hasn't seen before.


Penn & Serra have shitty gas tanks. Both guys were completely spent around 2 rounds. Jon Fitch has way better cardio. 



> He's not great in a Paul Taylor or Paul Daley way, but his stand-up is still among the best in the UFC WW division, mainly because of the way he mixes a diverse array of strikes. He's not easy to read, he drops his level, he's constantly on the balls of his feet. Matt Serra was confused as hell as to whether GSP was going to shoot or strike, he even said so in the post-fight interview.


He also gets tagged constantly, has no head movement and throws 2 punches.



> Jon Fitch telegraphs everything he throws, and he doesn't even have power in his hands. He was rocked by Chris Wilson whose striking is decent, so I question his "great chin" which people are touting for some reason.


I think Fitch has power, as he pretty much messed up Burkman, who can take a shot. He also tagged Hironaka with some nice shots. Also, he rocked Roan in their fight.

Fitch's chin is solid, as he took shots from guys like Joslin and Thiago Alves. Hell, his recovery time is solid, too, as I remember Thiago Alves hitting him with a really nice shot and Fitch coming back. Remember, Thiago hits like a truck.



> So what? That didn't help Koscheck when GSP bulldozed his ass for 3 rounds, did it? GSP's training with Greg Jackson too, so really camps aren't going to make a difference this time around.


Koscheck is not Jon Fitch. It really depends on what Fitch is going for. To say that they aren't going to make a difference this time around is foolish. 



> lol everyone has a shot at winning, that's an obvious statement to make. He's "experienced" as you say, but his resume is laughable in comparison to the guys Georges has faced, and destroyed. Experience won't be a factor.


Just saying that Fitch is on a very nice win streak against some seriously tough opponents. He's not going to crumble like Josh Koscheck, he knows what to work on and he will come prepared. He'll know what to do when put into a dangerous situation.



> Koscheck did just fine off his back "surviving" which is really all I think Fitch can do from there.


Fitch has already been put on his back, though, and by good top guys, so I seriously don't think it'll be a Koscheck situation.


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## zarny (Mar 4, 2007)

If Serra can catch GSP anyone has a chance to win. It is after all a fight.

I don't think most or many would say Fitch is the favourite.

One thing Fitch has that other fighters GSP has faced recently lacked is size. Fitch is taller than GSP and will probably be as big as George.

If Fitch is going to win I think he has to take a page out of Couture's playbook. Put pressure on GSP and make him back up. If Fitch can get GSP up against the cage and use some dirty boxing he might be able to catch George with a shot.

Of course Fitch has to avoid the TD which I don't think he can do.


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## Danomac (Oct 15, 2006)

You find Alves, whom Fitch defeated, a bigger threat? Right. Karo got caught by Alves by playing into his game. Fitch knew how to fight him and beat him. I'm sure he isn't going to stupid with GSP.

I'm not dreaming, right now, Fitch is GSP's biggest opponent. Alves KO's one guy and accumulates a 5-0 record and all of a sudden he is a bigger threat than Fitch? Fitch has gone 8-0. People have been given a title shot and more with much smaller win streaks.


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## doburg717 (Apr 25, 2008)

gsp's striking is overated, it just looks so much better due to the way he mixes his striking with takedowns, and how good an athlete he is imo.

i found it ammusing when people question gsp's reluctance to stand when hes always been a GnP fighter


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Damone said:


> Neither was Matt Serra when he brutally KO'ed GSP. You don't have to be, "top tier" to beat someone.


I get your point, but Jon Fitch hasn't shown the power in his hands that Matt Serra had prior to fighting GSP, nearly knocking Karo back to Armenia.



Damone said:


> That's simply horseshit. Just because he got outwrestled by Roan? Roan, himself, is a pretty solid wrestler and a legitimately solid fighter, so people using him as an example of Fitch's wrestling is unfair.


How is it unfair? Roan's a good wrestler, but Fitch struggled with him. "Solid" is such a loose adjective, if someone said to me that I wrote a "solid" paper, I find that to mean "passable". 



Damone said:


> Diego couldn't do anything to Fitch, and I'd consider Diego a pretty solid wrestler, at least in an MMA setting


Diego is a small WW and his wrestling really isn't that good, but maybe that's what you mean when you say "solid"? :confused02:



Damone said:


> and I'd also classify Josh Burkman as a pretty solid wrestler. Brock Larson, too. Am I saying he & GSP will have some sort of stalemate? Of course not, I'm saying that his wrestling is solid. It could help him at least stuff a takedown.


Kind of like it helped two substantially better wrestlers than Fitch--Matt Hughes and Josh Koscheck--stop the takedowns?



Damone said:


> Penn & Serra have shitty gas tanks. Both guys were completely spent around 2 rounds. Jon Fitch has way better cardio.


Cardio's really not going to be an issue in this fight for either fighter, so that point's really moot.



Damone said:


> He also gets tagged constantly, has no head movement and throws 2 punches.


2 punches? Now it's my turn to call "horseshit" on you. GSP has a wider array of weapons for striking than Fitch, and you know it, seeing as you champion his fight with Mayhem. GSP has better movement on his feet, more tools (as previously mentioned) and he's constantly changing levels which leaves his opponents questioning his next move. 

His strikes aren't nearly as telegraphed as Jon's, they're fluidly aligned with his wrestling, and I think that's something Jon Fitch lacks in droves; unpredictability.



Damone said:


> I think Fitch has power, as he pretty much messed up Burkman, who can take a shot. He also tagged Hironaka with some nice shots. Also, he rocked Roan in their fight.


Fitch has power? Really? How come I've never seen him drop a guy with a punch and finish a fight as a result. GSP knocked Jay Hieron, and Matt Hughes goofy before crushing their faces with elbows and punches.



Damone said:


> Fitch's chin is solid, as he took shots from guys like Joslin and Thiago Alves. Hell, his recovery time is solid, too, as I remember Thiago Alves hitting him with a really nice shot and Fitch coming back. Remember, Thiago hits like a truck.


Fitch definitely has heart, and a never say die attitude which I can appreciate. However, he's never really faced someone as well-rounded as GSP before.



Damone said:


> Koscheck is not Jon Fitch. It really depends on what Fitch is going for. To say that they aren't going to make a difference this time around is foolish.


Like I previously stated, Koscheck =/= Jon Fitch. Fitch has better striking and submission defense, but he isn't nearly as good of a wrestler (seeing as he was mowed by a "solid" Roan Carneiro). 

It's a stalemate with regard to camps, IMO.



Damone said:


> Just saying that Fitch is on a very nice win streak against some seriously tough opponents. He's not going to crumble like Josh Koscheck, he knows what to work on and he will come prepared. He'll know what to do when put into a dangerous situation.


And Georges has faced and beaten the best fighters in his division. Jon Fitch will work hard in preparation for this fight, but the same goes for GSP with Greg Jackson.. I really don't see the outcome in Jon's favor on paper.



Damone said:


> Fitch has already been put on his back, though, and by good top guys, so I seriously don't think it'll be a Koscheck situation.


I do, because I don't think he's faced anyone who can fluidly combine strikes and passing as well as Georges yet in his career. :dunno:

You're making the argument that Jon Fitch isn't Josh Koscheck, and then you turn around and say Fitch has been on his back against top guys, without recognizing the fact that Georges is also nothing like those guys. You can't have a double standard there, I'm just looking at this fight through a comparative analysis of styles, and I see Fitch losing out in all departments. I'm not saying he has no chance, I just think he doesn't have a great one.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Damone pretty much the only one to bring solid arguments for Fitch..Fedor>all shot each down, however.

I still am on the GSP train on this one. No stops until the ref pulls GSP off of Fitch at the end of this though. I really can't see Fitch dropping GSP with his obvious strikes. His kicks are lazy and telegraphed and if he attempts one against GSSP he will be on his back by the time his leg reaches his opponent. I see Fitch eating a lot of elbow in this one.


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

> How is it unfair? Roan's a good wrestler, but Fitch struggled with him. "Solid" is such a loose adjective, if someone said to me that I wrote a "solid" paper, I find that to mean "passable".


When I say, "solid," it usually means, "good." Not great, just good. I'm not saying Jon's Mark Coleman out there, he knows how to stop a takedown, to take someone down and to use top position.



> Diego is a small WW and his wrestling really isn't a good wrestler, but maybe that's what you mean when you say "solid"?


He's a good wrestler, not great or anything, but he's shown that he can wrestle. He has some good takedowns and very solid top positioning. I really only remember Kos & Fitch outwrestling him.



> Kind of like it helped two substantially better wrestlers than Fitch--Matt Hughes and Josh Koscheck--stop the takedowns?


Never said it will, I said it could, and Koscheck really had no clue that GSP was going to take him down. I think Fitch will be much more prepared than him. I'm not downplaying GSP's performance in that fight, but I really don't think Koscheck knew GSP was going to wrestle with him. Hughes, yeah, GSP outwrestled him quite easily in their third fight. 



> 2 punches? Now it's my turn to call "horseshit" on you. GSP has a wider array of weapons for striking than Fitch, and you know it, seeing as you champion his fight with Mayhem. GSP has better movement on his feet, more tools (as previously mentioned) and he's constantly changing levels which constantly leaves his opponents questioning his next move.
> 
> His strikes aren't nearly as telegraphed as Jon's, they're fluidly aligned with his wrestling, and I think that's something Jon Fitch lacks in droves; unpredictability.


He has good movement, but the guy doesn't have defense. He's like Gomi, but way more crisp and with kicks. He gets tagged quite often. His striking is just overrated; he has no head movement and relies on getting tagged. It also seems like he doesn't know how to counter punch and panics when someone gets the better of him in the striking department. 

I seem to remember Mayhem hitting quite a few nice kicks, and GSP resorting to taking him down.



> Fitch has power? Really? How come I've never seen him drop a guy with a punch and finish a fight as a result. GSP knocked Jay Hieron, and Matt Hughes goofy before crushing their faces with elbows and punches.


He did knock Roan silly and caught Burkman with some good shots. Both guys can take a punch. 



> Like I previously stated, Koscheck =/= Jon Fitch. Fitch has better striking and submission defense, but he isn't nearly as good of a wrestler (seeing as he was mowed by a "solid" Roan Carneiro).


Fitch is way more experienced than Koscheck and has better composure. He's also better off his back. Never said he was a better wrestler than Koscheck.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Damone said:


> When I say, "solid," it usually means, "good." Not great, just good. I'm not saying Jon's Mark Coleman out there, he knows how to stop a takedown, to take someone down and to use top position.


Thanks for clarifying your use of solid for me, as I notice in your posts a fair bit. :thumb02:



Damone said:


> He's a good wrestler, not great or anything, but he's shown that he can wrestle. He has some good takedowns and very solid top positioning. I really only remember Kos & Fitch outwrestling him.
> 
> Never said it will, I said it could, and Koscheck really had no clue that GSP was going to take him down. I think Fitch will be much more prepared than him. I'm not downplaying GSP's performance in that fight, but I really don't think Koscheck knew GSP was going to wrestle with him. Hughes, yeah, GSP outwrestled him quite easily in their third fight.


Even so, GSP played into Koscheck's strength and beat him where people thought he had a clear advantage. You don't suddenly forget how to wrestle after being a 4-time division one wrestler, he was simply man-handled in that fight. :dunno: 



Damone said:


> He has good movement, but the guy doesn't have defense. He's like Gomi, but way more crisp and with kicks. He gets tagged quite often. His striking is just overrated; he has no head movement and relies on getting tagged. It also seems like he doesn't know how to counter punch and panics when someone gets the better of him in the striking department.


I agree that GSP's defense isn't great, but I think his mobility and evasiveness more than makes up for that. While Fitch may not get tagged as often, GSP doesn't get put in nearly as many bad submission positions as Jon. 



Damone said:


> I seem to remember Mayhem hitting quite a few nice kicks, and GSP resorting to taking him down.


Probably because Georges got tired of kicking Mayhem's ass on the feet, and felt like wiping the mat with him? GSP raped Mayhem standing, I really don't think it can be watched any other way.



Damone said:


> He did knock Roan silly and caught Burkman with some good shots. Both guys can take a punch.


Roan gassed himself after whomping Fitch in round one.



Damone said:


> Fitch is way more experienced than Koscheck and has better composure. He's also better off his back. Never said he was a better wrestler than Koscheck.


My point is that he's better off his back against guys that aren't nearly as good on-top as GSP. Jon has more experience than Josh, but his experience against top competition pales in comparison to Georges'.


----------



## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

I noticed that GSP gets tagged a lot when he goes in for exchanges. I think that's why he utilizes more kicks and prefers to throw less punches. So yeah, unless he's fighting a fighter who has crappy ass reach/striking, he's going to hit. 

However, with that being said, I think that's why I hardly ever see GSP throw any power punches. He probably is too cautious about being clipped and prefers to GnP his opponents. Anyways, if he could work on that aspect of his game, he would be that much better.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

I actually haven't noticed much support for Fitch against GSP. His wrestling is so overrated its not even funny. Disagree? Go watch him fight Roan Carniero.


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## SuzukS (Nov 11, 2006)

To the thread starter, if you look around these forums and other MMA news sites/forums you'll find very few people that believe Fitch will beat GSP. So I don't know who you are referring to.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

kds13 said:


> I actually haven't noticed much support for Fitch against GSP. His wrestling is so overrated its not even funny. Disagree? Go watch him fight Roan Carniero.


Qft. Although Fitch is an awesome fighter and I really like him, GSP is a terrible match up for him. If Koscheck and Hughes couldn't beat GSp, how the hell is Fitch going to? I gotta say I was very impressed with how Fitch handled Diego on the ground but GSP is 100x better of a wrestler than Diego.


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

People keep posting saying how good GSP is. Really? I thought he was a hack with no talent. I might have to re consider.:confused02:

Seriously though, Everyone knows that GSP is "the goods" and would be a favourite against any WW on the planet. The basis of this thread should be "Why could Fitch be competitive with GSP?". IMO Fitch is the toughest opponent out there for GSP primarily because of Fitch's experience and mindset. Fitch has "warrior spirit" and the tools to *compete* with GSP in every aspect of MMA. He may not win granted, but it'd be a mad fight.

Damone is the only one to post something relevant on this topic IMO. Everyone else are shooting fish in a barrel.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I believe that Fitch will be a good match up against GSP and think he has a decent shot of winning. Now please don't distort that into any comments like "GSP sucks" or "Fitch already won, give him the belt now" or any of the other crap some people come up with.

One of the big reasons why I think Fitch has a good shot is because he likes to game plan and now that he has seen GSP's new style I am sure they have already spotted something they think is a weakness. I am not sure what that something is, but Fitch isn't an idiot or anything. He has good trainers behind him and I think that with his wrestling talent, he above average striking, good defense and cardio that he has what it takes to go 5 full rounds with GSP. There are very few people who I think could go 5 rounds with GSP, but I think Fitch is one of them. He knows how to not waste energy and other than his last fight I haven't even really seen him breath hard. I think if Fitch can figure out a good game plan and involves getting off his back once on it, trying to keep the fight standing as much as possible, even getting a TD or 2, and using all of that to win 3 out of 5 rounds he could win. 

I by no means see him going in there and dominating GSP, but I can see him going in there and winning via UD/SD 28-27.

Edit 48-47 *doh*


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

cdtcpl said:


> I believe that Fitch will be a good match up against GSP and think he has a decent shot of winning. Now please don't distort that into any comments like "GSP sucks" or "Fitch already won, give him the belt now" or any of the other crap some people come up with.
> 
> One of the big reasons why I think Fitch has a good shot is because he likes to game plan and now that he has seen GSP's new style I am sure they have already spotted something they think is a weakness. I am not sure what that something is, but Fitch isn't an idiot or anything. He has good trainers behind him and I think that with his wrestling talent, he above average striking, good defense and cardio that he has what it takes to go 5 full rounds with GSP. There are very few people who I think could go 5 rounds with GSP, but I think Fitch is one of them. He knows how to not waste energy and other than his last fight I haven't even really seen him breath hard. I think if Fitch can figure out a good game plan and involves getting off his back once on it, trying to keep the fight standing as much as possible, even getting a TD or 2, and using all of that to win 3 out of 5 rounds he could win.
> 
> I by no means see him going in there and dominating GSP, but I can see him going in there and winning via UD/SD 28-27.


Maybe even 48 - 47. :thumb01:
I'm with ya Bro! Nice post.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

The best way I can see Fitch beating GSP is by putting him on his back and GnPing him. Fitch has a great base and he's pretty hard to sweep. Again his style is much like GSPs, but GSP is better at it. The main stylistic difference is that Fitch is a big "grind it out, wear you down" fighter while GSP looks to finish things early. GSP has great cardio, but Fitch regularly goes to decision so I think the longer the fight goes the edge comes to him (or at least becomes mroe realizable). If Fitch can put him on his back for 2-3 rounds and defend the takedown (which he can, he has some pretty good TDD), I think fitch could grind it to a very close split (not saying he'll win) or if he can wear GSP down enough he may be able to choke him out or Kimura him from side mount. If GSP can finish it within the first three rounds or dominate Fitch in them the fight is his easily, but if Fitch outworks him he can take it too. I'd still expect GSP to win purely because of experience and how much more of a well rounded fighter he is, but fitch is definately capable of doing it if he has a great game plan. I think the fight goes to a close split, 3 rounds to gsp, 1 draw round and one round to Fitch because he's absurdly hard to finish.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

TraMaI said:


> The best way I can see Fitch beating GSP is by putting him on his back and GnPing him. Fitch has a great base and he's pretty hard to sweep. Again his style is much like GSPs, but GSP is better at it. The main stylistic difference is that Fitch is a big "grind it out, wear you down" fighter while GSP looks to finish things early. GSP has great cardio, but Fitch regularly goes to decision so I think the longer the fight goes the edge comes to him (or at least becomes mroe realizable). If Fitch can put him on his back for 2-3 rounds and defend the takedown (which he can, he has some pretty good TDD), I think fitch could grind it to a very close split (not saying he'll win) or if he can wear GSP down enough he may be able to choke him out or Kimura him from side mount. If GSP can finish it within the first three rounds or dominate Fitch in them the fight is his easily, but if Fitch outworks him he can take it too. I'd still expect GSP to win purely because of experience and how much more of a well rounded fighter he is, but fitch is definately capable of doing it if he has a great game plan. I think the fight goes to a close split, 3 rounds to gsp, 1 draw round and one round to Fitch because he's absurdly hard to finish.


That's not really a split if Jon only wins one round. :dunno:


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Well the draw could go either way really, most judges wont even call a draw. And then I'm sure there will be a close round in one of the three that GSP wins that some judge might give him


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

SuzukS said:


> To the thread starter, if you look around these forums and other MMA news sites/forums you'll find very few people that believe Fitch will beat GSP. So I don't know who you are referring to.


I gues sit was selective reading or just not paying attention. Or maybe more people have switched sides since the utter domination of Serra, but before that match there were many people on here saying Fitch is the guy to beat GSP.


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## Brydon (Jan 13, 2007)

Fitch and GSP are extremly similar fighters. Both big for welterweight, great wrestlers, solid strikers, good subs and sub defence.

However, GSP is superior to fitch in every facet of MMA.

Better wrestling, striking, strength, explosivness, jujitsu and over all experience.

The only decent guy fitch has fought is Diego and he layed and prayed the whole fight, nearly getting submitted twice.

Don't think for a second he could get away with that against GSP.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Brydon said:


> Fitch and GSP are extremly similar fighters. Both big for welterweight, great wrestlers, solid strikers, good subs and sub defence.
> 
> However, GSP is superior to fitch in every facet of MMA.
> 
> ...


Not only is GSP better in all those individual departments, he *mixes* them the best as well.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

> His wrestling is so overrated its not even funny. Disagree? Go watch him fight Roan Carniero.


Or maybe it's because Roan actually has underrated wrestling?


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

Damone said:


> Or maybe it's because Roan actually has underrated wrestling?


Or both? I agree that Roan's wrestling is underrated, but there is no excuse for someone like Fitch, who's wrestling is highly touted as his best asset (which is a joke, IMO), should get outwrestled by Roan.


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Shit happens in MMA, who knew that Nogueira would take guys like Heath Herring & Josh Barnett down? Both guys are good wrestlers, and Nog took them down and did very well on top. Nogueira's not the greatest wrestler ever.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Damone said:


> Shit happens in MMA, who knew that Nogueira would take guys like Heath Herring & Josh Barnett down? Both guys are good wrestlers, and Nog took them down and did very well on top. Nogueira's not the greatest wrestler ever.


Heath Herring's takedown defense is not that great. He can get guys down, but that's moreso from bull-rushing, not his technical wrestling ability. Yeah, "Shit happens in MMA", but that more often than not applies to striking than anything else. Great wrestlers usually aren't outwrestled by lesser wrestlers. 

Not to forget that Nogueira uses body-lock leg trips which are more along the lines of judo than wrestling to get his opponents to the mat. :dunno:


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Question: Did you feel that Josh Barnett's ground game was/is overrated after the second Mirko fight?



> Not to forget that Nogueira uses body-lock leg trips which are more along the lines of judo than wrestling to get his opponents to the mat.


I seem to remember him actually shooting in on Barnett and driving him down in their first fight.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*Calling all Penn fans....*

I made a sig bet with a Sherk fan for hte upcoming fight.

Thinking of a good sig for the guy, but am curently experiencing lack of creativity.

Any suggestions?


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## Saiyan3s (Oct 5, 2007)

Im down for a sig bet too , any Sherk fan interested .. ?


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## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

this is the one I'm making The Brickhouse use


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Yea I got drunk and dropped a few bills on sherk for this fight. Sigh* 


_*war sherk...*_


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## Ryan1522 (Oct 31, 2006)

southpaw447 said:


> this is the one I'm making The Brickhouse use


I'm the guy the thread starter made the sig bet with. I have to say I like sherk, but that is hilarious.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

xeberus said:


> Yea I got drunk and dropped a few bills on sherk for this fight. Sigh*
> 
> 
> _*war sherk...*_


Thats funny. You wanna know whats worse, I had a few too many at UFC 83 and when the Starnes fight rolled around I took Starnes.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

J.P. said:


> Thats funny. You wanna know whats worse, I had a few too many at UFC 83 and when the Starnes fight rolled around I took Starnes.


 Did you think it was a race?


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Did you think it was a race?


Um.....no, did you think your post was witty?


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## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

I sure found it witty. :happy01:


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

SimplyNate said:


> I sure found it witty. :happy01:


Well at least you found something.


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## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

J.P. said:


> Well at least you found something.


I'm glad that make senses. See what I did there.

Trying to make fun of people on the forum is getting you nowhere.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

What makes "senses"? Your spelling?:thumb02: I wasn't making fun of anyone, I was responding to a reply of my post. But if it makes you feel better to chase your tail on this topic.
Feel free.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Anyone got any good things to have as a sig for a Sherk fan if Sherk loses? Like the original post ask.


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## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

J.P. said:


> What makes "senses"? Your spelling?:thumb02: I wasn't making fun of anyone, I was responding to a reply of my post. But if it makes you feel better to chase your tail on this topic.
> Feel free.


Keep talking and make yourself look more like an ass. Keep up the good work.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

SimplyNate said:


> Keep talking and make yourself look more like an ass. Keep up the good work.


You make no sense.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

This is a battle of wits that reminds me of what would happen if Matt Hammill appeared on American Idol.


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## recon6991 (Nov 21, 2007)

^
That is dirty.


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## mikehmike (May 28, 2007)

Toxic said:


> This is a battle of wits that reminds me of what would happen if Matt Hammill appeared on American Idol.


he would probably win, dont kid yourself


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*2 fights that could make any card great*

Here are two fights that could be great wars on the ground and standing (respectively).

Demian Maia vs. Rousimar Palhares

Wanderlei Silva vs. James Irvin

What do you guys think? Some other fights you have to see too.


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## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

Rampage vs Wanderlei 3
GSP vs A Silva


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

enceledus said:


> Rampage vs Wanderlei 3
> GSP vs A Silva


Both good suggestions....Rampage and Wnad though, I am not sure really excites me right now


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## sprawlbrawl (Apr 28, 2008)

enceledus said:


> Rampage vs Wanderlei 3
> GSP vs A Silva


have to agree


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

I think Irvin and Wand is a more realistic expecctation because Wand really hasn't done much to deserve a title shot and I think it could provide the action many people thought they were going to get from Irvin vs Alexander


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

irvin vs wandi


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Chuck Liddell VS Thiago Silva

B.J. Penn VS Roger Huerta

Wanderlei Silva VS Lyoto Machida

Anderson Silva VS Hendo 2


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## 70seven (Mar 5, 2007)

Henderson VS Franklin
Forrest VS Shogun 2


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

J.P. said:


> Chuck Liddell VS Thiago Silva
> 
> B.J. Penn VS Roger Huerta
> 
> ...


You really think Huerta would be competitive? He gives his back to everyone. BJ would be able to choke him out easily. His BJ is worlds ahead of those other guys he has fought


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## Slug (Apr 8, 2007)

henderson v franklin
silva vs. machida


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> You really think Huerta would be competitive? He gives his back to everyone. BJ would be able to choke him out easily. His BJ is worlds ahead of those other guys he has fought


Yes I do. He is very quick. I am awaiting his fight with Florian. He fights with a killer instinct. I think he is a dangerous sleeper at LW.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

J.P. said:


> Yes I do. He is very quick. I am awaiting his fight with Florian. He fights with a killer instinct. I think he is a dangerous sleeper at LW.


He is dangerous, but more so in the stand-up. His ground game is very average. His quickness would not really be effective *when* he gives his back to BJ


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Yeah, I know about B.J. I've had him on my top 5 for a long time. He's got to be absolutly one of the best.

I am not saying that Huerta will beat him. I'm not saying he won't.

I am saying he would fight convincingly an competitivley. I know he's given his back before. But he's training and working his ground game. 

He has natural skill, Great striking, a solid chin, unbeleiveable cardio, beautiful GNP, and above all he's super aggressive.

I think he'd put up a competitive fight. Alot of people dwelled on B.J.s cardio as an argument against Sherk, but B.J. told every one he worked on it and we still see him holding the title.

I don't see Roger not working on protecting the choke, especially when everyone sees the hole.

I just think the fight would be exciting. I think it would be more exciting than the Stephenson or Sherk fights.


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## veilside23 (Jan 8, 2007)

I really hope that Fitch mounts GSP and smash his face.. just to prove that fitch has a chance of winning. I want fitch to win so bad and in a very convincing way not like a serra i want something really really convincing.. I can only dream and its only Job Fitch himself who can make it happen.

Plus people who keeps on saying that his fight against wilson should be easy considering that GSP striking ability is better. But lets not forget wilson is Tall. probably one of the tallest WW. 

I am a GSP fan as well i know that gsp maybe better in everything but one thing is for sure. Fitch knows how to counter the moves of his opponents.


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

*My prediction for future LHW holder....*

This isn't a thread to debate, I'm just going on public record with something because I believe it so strongly: Thiago Silva will go on to beat Machida, and will take the LHW title. When/if he faces them, he will also beat Liddell and Rampage.

If you disagree, that's fine, I respect that. Just remember this thread when Thiago has a big, fat belt around his waist.


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## Arlovski_Fan (Apr 25, 2007)

Would you elaborate on how you think he will win all of those fights? I'm curious not challanging you. I think he stands a chance, but I'm not really sure.
He could beat Machida as he is very aggressive and seems relatively well rounded.
He could probably beat Liddell assuming Liddell doesn't try to wrestle him.
I don't see how he could beat Rampage.
Also I think Wandy would beat him.


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## Klrinstank (May 26, 2008)

I agree he could beat Machida and Chuck, but to be honest i just do not see him getting passed Rampage, he is a complete fighter.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Thiago Silva is a sloppy striker. Maybe he'll improve, but Machida, Liddell, Silva, and Rampage would own him on the feet. The guy does have a great mount and control on the ground though.


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

Arlovski_Fan said:


> Would you elaborate on how you think he will win all of those fights? I'm curious not challanging you. I think he stands a chance, but I'm not really sure.


I think that with Machida, he will close the gap - not letting Machida keep him at a distance - and KO him. He took some freaking BOMBS against Mendes - bigger than I think that Machida can dish out - and regained composure quickly.

With Liddell, I think he'll do the same old thing - close, avoid Chuck's right, and KO.

Rampage... that's a good question. I could see it going several different ways. He might get lucky and catch him with a hand early, or it might end up going to the ground. But even on the ground, he's pretty good, and has some serious power.

Back when Houston had won a few straight, and everyone was shouting that he was the future of the division, I said that it would only last until someone weathered the initial fury and took Houston down, and that's just what happened. But I see Thiago as having the BOMBS of Houston, but with a BJJ black belt and a very good ground game at his disposal, too. 

If that impression of mine is correct, then that's a VERY good mix, and gives him the ability to deal with strikers like Liddell/Machida, and GnP-ers like Rampage. Only time will tell, but I have a feeling I'm end up being right.


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

Machida would make him look like a fool standing up and wouldn't be able to take him down.

Don't get me wrong, Silva is crazy exciting, but Machida/Chuck/Rampage are bad matches for him.


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## Screwaside (Feb 11, 2008)

Not an insult dude but I have a hard time even takin this seriously


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## k-fighter (Oct 22, 2007)

Klrinstank said:


> I agree he could beat Machida and Chuck, but to be honest i just do not see him getting passed Rampage, he is a complete fighter.


To be frank, Silva only has a chance against Rampage out of the three. We all know Rampage's weakness is Chute Boxe fighters and Silva is part of the Chute Boxe family. He has no chance against Ryoto and Chuck would pick him apart.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

I completely disagree. It seems as though I'm the only one not sold on Thiago Silva. The guy is powerful and he has a good ground game, but his stand-up is average, and he still hasn't fought any legitimate/upper echelon LHW fighters.

I predict Machida to be the LHW champ by the end of 2008/early 2009.


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

Hopefully we'll soon find out on all accounts!


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## Couchwarrior (Jul 13, 2007)

I think it's time for Thiago to step up the ladder and challenge a top level fighter. Before he's been really tested I don't know what to think of him, but it's obvious that everybody they're throwing at him right now is just too easy.


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## BrFighter07 (Jun 16, 2007)

im not really sold on silva as well he hasnt fought top level competition and his striking while it does knock people out its not exactly top level. He does have the skills to become the champ but I think at the moment no maybe late 2009


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

I'd like to see Thiago Silva vs Evans or Jardine. 
To match it with the top guys he needs to improve his stand up. He has great top control but taking down guys like Rampage, Liddell and Machida is a difficult proposition indeed.


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## mascher (Aug 27, 2007)

My dream fight right now would be for Wand and Machida to fight for the belt. Such a contrast in styles that i think could make for a real classic with both fighters bringing out the best in each other.


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## Grotty (Jul 21, 2006)

I think Rushfan is spot on with the Jardine selection as an opponent, Jardine has heart and power , regardless of wrestling ability etc i think Thiago has the gound advantage but if he won a standup with Jardine i think that would go a long way.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*Palhares vs Maia...anyone interested?*

I think this would be great fight....does anyone else see this as a logical match-up?


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> I think this would be great fight....does anyone else see this as a logical match-up?


this would be a great fight...


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## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

Yeah, I was really impressed with Palhares Jiu Jitsu, and him vs Maia would be an absolute joy to watch since it would be a ground clinic on both ends.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

MagiK11 said:


> Yeah, I was really impressed with Palhares Jiu Jitsu, and him vs Maia would be an absolute joy to watch since it would be a ground clinic on both ends.


although i think maia would take it. this would clearly be an pure bjj fight and maia got the best bjj game in the ufc


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> I think this would be great fight....does anyone else see this as a logical match-up?


Um... no. This isn't a very good matchup.

Palhares is a physically powerful fighters, but his jiu-jitsu isn't that good if his last performance is any indication. Just because he got a submission does not mean he has great jiu-jitsu (Matt Hughes gets plenty of submissions on the basis of his physical strength, and his jiu-jitsu is still rudimentary).

If Palhares made the mistakes (like crossing his feet or giving that much room with his hips while he was in the sidemount) against Maia, it would be a quick night.

Who knows, maybe Palhares just put himself in a position where his jiu-jitsu skills are not the best. Maybe he fights better from the mount or from side control (though that's doubtful, since he did look for the mount), but the chances of him beating Maia enough to get to one of those positions is unlikely.

Palhares is a physically powerful fighter, but if you put him in the cage with one of the top grapplers at 185 pounds (Lister, Maia, Filho, etc.), he's going to lose, and he's going to lose badly.

He may have a great career ahead of him, but his technical ability needs some work.

EDIT: I realize that everyone on this thread seems enamored with Palhares' jiu-jitsu, but sitting in a room watching this matchup with a group of US Open and Pan American BJJ champions yelling at the tv as this guy makes rudimentary mistakes gives me a totally different take on his game. The more I look at the technique (and I taped the event, so I've watched the fight almost five times at this point), the more I think he's going to pull someone with good jiu-jitsu and just get his ass handed to him.


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## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

norway1 said:


> although i think maia would take it. this would clearly be an pure bjj fight and maia got the best bjj game in the ufc


Yeah I agree, Maia has impressed me in every fight and I hope he can get a title shot in the near future.


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## AmRiT (Apr 23, 2007)

I think Palhares will get destroyed, Palhares is tiny for 185

he loses lik 4 inches to Maia, Maia's jiu jitsu is also better...


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

IronMan said:


> Um... no. This isn't a very good matchup.
> 
> Palhares is a physically powerful fighters, but his jiu-jitsu isn't that good if his last performance is any indication. Just because he got a submission does not mean he has great jiu-jitsu (Matt Hughes gets plenty of submissions on the basis of his physical strength, and his jiu-jitsu is still rudimentary).
> 
> ...



Really unlike you to speculate that I (we) are basing our decision of Palhares on just this fight. I have watched some of hi sother fights (mostly from Fury). Most are on Youtube if you haven't seen them. His BJJ is very clean and very effective. His takedown's are also very good. His striking is very average, but he has enough power to do some damage. He also trains with Brazilian Top Team which adds legitimacy to his game. He would pose a very realistic threat to Maia for those reasons. I think it would be a ground war that would produce much excitement. 

I am certainly not enamored with his BJJ, not as much as Maia, but I love BJJ and think this would be the best match-up within the division. Very surprised you believe it to be as one-sided as you previously stated. Toquinho wil be a force at 185 mark my words.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*If Huerta loses?*

So, I think KenFlo is a better fighter then Huerta at this time. I know it may be a little early to predict what should or should not happen, but what are forums for?

I think if Huerta loses they should give him a rematch with Melvin Guillard. it was scored a no contest over a controversial post fight (days later) ruling of Guillard greasing. I was actually close to ring side at this fight in Mississippi and Guillard schooled him. 

I think Huerta would beat him now, but he probably would like to prove that in the ring. If nothing else we would be in for a very exciting fight.


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## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

I would like to see the Guillard fight also but only if Guillard wins against Siver and Huerta loses. At the same time Guillard is pretty far beneath Huerta in the rankings right now. There are a ton of fights for Huerta right now, just like anyone else at 155, there are really no bad fights at 155.


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## mma17 (Jun 4, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> I was actually close to ring side at this fight in Mississippi and Guillard schooled him.
> 
> I think Huerta would beat him now, but he probably would like to prove that in the ring. If nothing else we would be in for a very exciting fight.


That's really cool that you were there for this fight. Ya, like Kamikaze said, Guillard is way below Huerta in the rankings. I mean, if Huerta wins, he gets a title shot, and as for Guillard, he's got skills, but lots of people want him out of the ufc. It would take a major win streak for Guillard to get paired up with Huerta. I'm sure that fight still kind of bugs Huerta, even with his success.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

mma17 said:


> That's really cool that you were there for this fight. Ya, like Kamikaze said, Guillard is way below Huerta in the rankings. I mean, if Huerta wins, he gets a title shot, and as for Guillard, he's got skills, but lots of people want him out of the ufc. It would take a major win streak for Guillard to get paired up with Huerta. I'm sure that fight still kind of bugs Huerta, even with his success.


Yeah I actually lived in Central Florida, but was visiting friends and family in Mobile. Heard there was a pretty good fight at the casinos on the coast (1 hour away) and drove over. Got great seats to see a guy from my home state and became a big fan of his. 

I thought it was kind of stupid how that ruling turned out because Huerta complained about it a couple of days after the fight. Apparently never said anything during the fight either. And then the MSAC reviews video of the fight and finds it a NC instead of a loss for Huerta. I thought that was garbage to call it that way after the fact. 

But like Kamikaze said Huerta is way past Guillard at this point in the rankings. I still think it would be tough for huerta to win that fight though. And even if he does it would be a great fight.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

I don't think Huerta will lose this. He can beat Kenny.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

J.P. said:


> I don't think Huerta will lose this. He can beat Kenny.


I don't really hate or love either guy in this fight. I just feel that if htis touches the ground Kenny subs him pretty quickly via RNC. And KenFlo's stand-up is really improving at a great rate. His kicks keep getting better and better. This is going to be FOTY. I wish it were a 5 rounder just in case.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

J.P. said:


> I don't think Huerta will lose this. He can beat Kenny.


I don't know, he can win, but I think that, at this point, Florian's just a better fighter all around. Huerta is improving a ton, but Kenny's on another level skill wise. His stand-up is better as is his ground game.


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## Robopencil (Feb 7, 2007)

Definitely a tough fight to call. I think Florian might just win this by an edge, but I wouldn't count Huerta out. I really like both fighters and I think that they're going to work their asses off to make this fight a war.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Huerta's pace is extremly hard to match, he's strong on the ground and on his feet. He doesn't stop. His chin is rock solid and his GNP is great.

I continue to hear about his ground game, giving up his back and so fourth. Yet his defense against subs is pretty outstanding considering his record of 21-1.

He's never been subbed via rear naked choke so giving up his back during a transition against fighters who have limited ground game is what it is. He's defended beautifully.

Kenny on the other hand with a record of 10 - 3 with only 6 submission victories to his credit in his entire carreer is in my eyes an unproven entity. This fight is closer than alot of people think, skillwise leaning towards Roger. As well as experience. He's also finished 15 of his fights. Thats more finishes than a combined W/L ratio of Kenflos entire fight record.

Roger Huerta takes this via TKO


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

He's finished more fights, but look who he faced. If Kenny faced guys like Halverson, then he'd have more finishes on his record, too. Guida and Blackburn are the only legit finishes he's ever had.

Meanwhile, Florian's fought guys like Din Thomas, Diego Sanchez, Chris Leben, Sam Stout, Sean Sherk and Mishima. He's fought way tougher competition and is improving a lot. Also, he's a very intelligent fighter, who studies his opponents. I think he's going to choke Huerta out. Florian's MMA BJJ is really, really good.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

I really think you are giving Huerta more credit then he deserves in the skill department. 

As for experience, KenFlo's experience in the UFC has been way more difficult then Huerta's has. Those fights alone that KenFlo has had are enough for me. 

Another thing that people seem to be missing with Huerta is he is the exact same fighter he was when he first got to the UFC. He may have refine dhis techniques a little, but he has not added any new weapons and I don't think he wants to. If he stands with KenFlo he will learn that technical striking beats you every time. He won't be able to just get mad and over power his opponent because Kenny will open him up, drop him, or make him tap when he makes those mistakes. 

I will say the same thing I said about BJ vs Sherk. I don't see anywhere that Huerta is better then KenFlo and I know for a fact that Kenny is by far the best fighter Huerta has seen and Roger is not the best Kenny will see. 

2nd round TKO for KenFlo. I like his progression since the title loss.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Damone said:


> He's finished more fights, but look who he faced. If Kenny faced guys like Halverson, then he'd have more finishes on his record, too. Guida and Blackburn are the only legit finishes he's ever had.
> 
> Meanwhile, Florian's fought guys like Din Thomas, Diego Sanchez, Chris Leben, Sam Stout, Sean Sherk and Mishima. He's fought way tougher competition and is improving a lot. Also, he's a very intelligent fighter, who studies his opponents. I think he's going to choke Huerta out. Florian's MMA BJJ is really, really good.



I don't take his Diego Sanchez fight to note because he was obliterated 2 minutes into the first round via TKO.

Really, was he ever there? That kind of fight is none to brag of. 

Respectable experience in the Sean Sherk fight, but, Florian lost that fight also. 

Florian does showcase alot of talent. And he's an up and comer, I guess I'm seeing Roger take this anyway. I think he'll really impress alot of people with this one.

Gotta go with the Matador.


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## Zuke (Sep 22, 2006)

Huerta's sub defense is deffinatley better than average as he was on the mat with Alberto Crane for a good while and managed not to get subbed. However, Crane has amazing BJJ and he is in the process of equating that into MMA BBJ.

I really do not see how Huerta wins this fight. I am not saying he cannot win, it is possible. Its just KenFlo is better at every aspect of the fight game. 

Its not like Huerta can have a plan to dominate, confuse or out work KenFlo. He is not gonna surprise Kenny or do anything that Kenny has no answer for. He is not gonna out strike KenFlo, nor will he take him down and G'n'P his way to a win or catch a sub win due to a better ground game. He just has to look for an opportunity and try to "catch" KenFlo for a flash KO and finish him with a flurry/sub, or depending how bad the "flash" is, it may get stopped there.


KenFlo is most likley gonna win. I would bet on it. Huerta's only way to win is a "flash KO" or something related to "catching KenFlo". But remember.....he did it to Guida.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

J.P. said:


> I don't take his Diego Sanchez fight to note because he was obliterated 2 minutes into the first round via TKO.
> 
> Really, was he ever there? That kind of fight is none to brag of.
> 
> ...


Well, Florian did get much better after the Sanchez fight and chose to go down in weight because he was ridiculously small. Even though he lost, he still learned from that loss.



> But remember.....he did it to Guida.


And Florian's a totally different fighter than Clay Guida. I like Clay, but he's a balls out kind of fighter. Florian's more of a thinking man's fighter. I don't see him getting caught.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

I started another thread last night, but unfortuantely I cannot remember what about. It appears to have disappeared. 

Damone, what happens to these mysterious disappearing threads. I remember you posting in that one too, that is why I ask.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Honestly, I don't really know.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

That's cool. i can't believe that I don't even remember what it was about.


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

Damone said:


> He's finished more fights, but look who he faced. If Kenny faced guys like Halverson, then he'd have more finishes on his record, too. Guida and Blackburn are the only legit finishes he's ever had.
> 
> Meanwhile, Florian's fought guys like Din Thomas, Diego Sanchez, Chris Leben, Sam Stout, Sean Sherk and Mishima. He's fought way tougher competition and is improving a lot. Also, he's a very intelligent fighter, who studies his opponents. I think he's going to choke Huerta out. Florian's MMA BJJ is really, really good.


when did he fight chris leben


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

J.P. said:


> I don't take his Diego Sanchez fight to note because he was obliterated 2 minutes into the first round via TKO.
> 
> Really, was he ever there? That kind of fight is none to brag of.
> 
> ...


Dude I really dont know the only thing that has ever looked impressive about Huerta to me is his stand -up and thats still only slightly above average. Most strikers in the LW division would tool him on their feet. But as Damone said Guida and Blackburn were his only real challenges and in the Guida fight he got tooled all the way through until he caught Guida with that knee. Not taking anything away from him just pointing out that really hasn't held up that well against the higher competition and I hold KenFlo a level above that of Guida IMO.

Kenny constantly shows an improving style. He has demonstrated solid stand up, great ground and pound (Which so far seems to be Huerta's weakness judging by the Guida and Evans fight) brilliant BJJ skills as well as having amazing cardio and being able to keep up with anyone pace. (If you can keep up with Sherk i think by all means you can keep up with Huerta.

Sorry man I just dont know how this can end well for Huerta:dunno:


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

dontazo said:


> when did he fight chris leben


TUF 1.


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## Oluyemi (Jan 1, 2008)

Does it really matter how much kenflo is better than Huerta? Florian cant hang with real competition like bj and sherk..Sure he can have his way with washed up has beens and up and comers but he falters against fighters who are the top of the heap


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## AceFranklin88 (Apr 21, 2007)

Oluyemi said:


> Does it really matter how much kenflo is better than Huerta? Florian cant hang with real competition like bj and sherk..Sure he can have his way with washed up has beens and up and comers but he falters against fighters who are the top of the heap


Based on one fight with Sherk? Please...

Ken-Flo is a good fighter. Will he beat BJ? Doubtful. But I think he'll beat Huerta. I just don't know where you're getting this ridiculous opinion of him from. He lost to Sherk. So freakin what. Sherk is a great fighter. Kenny is still growing as a fighter and I think he'll be top competition someday. But to say he can't hang with _real_ competition is just stupid. :confused03:


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## simtom (Oct 23, 2007)

I rate Clay Guida as a much harder fight than Joe lauzon or Sam Stout. imho the only real good win kenflo has is vs Din Thomas, but that was only because thomas messed up his knee

I see Huerta getting a decision vs him


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## +Shogun+ (Aug 3, 2007)

I like Roger a lot more than I like Kenny, but I think KenFlo will take the fight. His stand-up has been impressive and his ground game is top-notch.

Hoping Roger wins, just don't think it'll happen.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

*Help with shin splints...please*

Okay, so I am not new to cardio routines, but I used to either do them on a soccer field or in the Gym. Now I am running in the street and on my property, but am experiencing major problems with shin splints. Any suggestions (preventative or treatment). 

It feels like a midget is constantly hitting me with tiny spikes that sends shooting pains up my leg.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Okay, so I am not new to cardio routines, but I used to either do them on a soccer field or in the Gym. Now I am running in the street and on my property, but am experiencing major problems with shin splints. Any suggestions (preventative or treatment).
> 
> It feels like a midget is constantly hitting me with tiny spikes that sends shooting pains up my leg.


Okey dokey- first off do you have good running shoes that gives support to your feet and ankle? If you are running on streets it generally is the most unforgiving on joints and ankles. Get a good pair of running shoes first- you can ask a good shoe store to help you buy the proper running shoe for your training(some run-specific stores will look at your "gait" or runnin form and help you get the right shoes that will help you the most.)

To help with the shin splints- ice them down after every run you do. You can use ice cups to go over your shins or just put ice packs on them. Ice as much as you can as this promotes healing and reduces some of the inflammation. Before running you can tape your shins but I honestly don't know how much that helps. Try and ice for a minimumof 20 minutes.

If they keep getting worse you need to lay off running and give them a chance to heal- at least a few days. Icing multiple times helps the process. Sometimes it is as small has having the right running shoe though.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Walker said:


> Okey dokey- first off do you have good running shoes that gives support to your feet and ankle? If you are running on streets it generally is the most unforgiving on joints and ankles. Get a good pair of running shoes first- you can ask a good shoe store to help you buy the proper running shoe for your training(some run-specific stores will look at your "gait" or runnin form and help you get the right shoes that will help you the most.)
> 
> To help with the shin splints- ice them down after every run you do. You can use ice cups to go over your shins or just put ice packs on them. Ice as much as you can as this promotes healing and reduces some of the inflammation. Before running you can tape your shins but I honestly don't know how much that helps. Try and ice for a minimumof 20 minutes.
> 
> If they keep getting worse you need to lay off running and give them a chance to heal- at least a few days. Icing multiple times helps the process. Sometimes it is as small has having the right running shoe though.


Thanks Walker....will rep when I spread around more.


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## kaiser1041 (Oct 7, 2006)

i had the same problems i now lay off off the streets and run on grass or use a cross trainer its horrible aint it


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## Cyclist (May 9, 2007)

You might be landing each step incorrectly if you are getting shin splints.


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## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

I have the problem all the time. You need to get some shoes that have good arch support. Flat Shoes will only make it worse.

I have flat feet so I'm used to dealing with this on a regular basis.

Best thing you can do it just take it easy and rest it for a few days

Ice it when you have down time


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## Cyclist (May 9, 2007)

southpaw447 said:


> I have the problem all the time. You need to get some shoes that have good arch support. Flat Shoes will only make it worse.
> 
> I have flat feet so I'm used to dealing with this on a regular basis.
> 
> ...


Southpaw its actually not that simple. Your feet are going to determine how much support you are going to need. The best way to find out is to go into a running store like Fleet Feet (my personal favorite) and have to look at your feet and how you walk to determine what kind of shoes to get.

You can also try Road Runner Sport, you send in one of you old worn shoes and they evaluate what kind of shoes you need.

Shin splints are mostly due to your running style. The shoe will help if you are using a really poor choice of shoe, but correcting the way you run will do more over all to protect the health of you feet and legs.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

But my shoe was built and made by an underage under paid child. Could he/she have made a mistake?

Hope that joke didn't offend anyone.

I use Nike Air Zoom's. I will look into getting the foot evaluation, but I might just go back to a gym because treadmill and elliptical training don't cause them. I really wonder why the treadmill is so much different.


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## Cyclist (May 9, 2007)

Treadmills have a lot more shock absorption then asphalt.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

*Who can stop Andy Silva?*

I just was watching UFC Unleashed and it was mostly Anderson Silva fights... and it reminded me of how dominate this dude is. Who the hell is going to beat this man?! Besides the Henderson fight, these matches are so one sided, it's sick - especially the Franklin fight. Anderson looked like his hands were glued to the back of Rich's head. I honestly don't believe that Okami can beat him at this point, and he said he wont fight Filho, so please MMAheads, tell me who!


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

of every fighter in the UFC, i'd say stylistically the best fighter to beat Silva is Rousimar Palhares...because his takedowns are very good and his bjj is amazing. I don't think Maia's td's are good enough to beat Anderson, and their certainly isn't anyone that can hang w/ Silva standing.


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## NikosCC (May 16, 2007)

Not really sure if there is anyone who can. This guy is showing a hell of a game plan in every fight maybe Bisping could be the next best shot if he beats Lenen.


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

palhares may! i would like to see relij vs silva ! 
but ultimately FEDOR or gSP


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Georges St. Pierre. Yeah I know he's the smaller guy, and has shown some slight vulnerabilities where Silva has shown none. But I think a focused GSP can push the pace against Andy like no one has before.. he's so explosive, I think he's the only guy MW or below who can work into a dominant position on the ground on Andy. Then again, if it stays standing, GSP becomes another highlight reel KO for Anderson.


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## SpecC (Nov 18, 2007)

patrick cote can do it [/sarcasm]

fedor can totally do it. in MW though.... as of now... nobody in the next year looks like they can take him


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## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

I think Henderson should fight him one more time.


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

I think Hendo could do it if he sticks to his gameplan, doesn't swin wildly and utilizes his wrestling full force.


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

I think the obvious answer is Rob Emerson.


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## KyleB (May 30, 2007)

cplmac said:


> I think the obvious answer is Rob Emerson.


Thats a whole different category, sir. Ruthless Rotten Rob would obviously leg kick the hell out of Silva, forcing him into tapping.


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

Damn, when you look at it, Silva has lost to some RANDOM ass people that you'd never guess would beat him.

Daiju Takase?
Ryo Chonan
LUIZ AZEREDO?
The ground?


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## yellow_fever (Aug 9, 2008)

SimplyNate said:


> I think Henderson should fight him one more time.


I was watching the fights too, and after watching the Henderson fight... I can't believe he wants to fight Silva again, he got completely schooled... Hendo can lay n pray for a bit but eventually he's getting stomped out, that should've been his first knockout, but not enough time.


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## RaisingCajun (Jun 22, 2008)

I think the only person to stop A.Silva is A.Silva.


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## LittleJoe (Oct 15, 2006)

Chuck Norris


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

I thought with regard to simply standing exchances, Rich Franklin wasn't doing too badly in the first fight. As soon as Anderson locked up the Thai clinch and started crushing Rich's body, the fight changed dramatically.


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## NATAS (Jun 30, 2008)

I think Rousimar would get torn apart standing and would be unable to get past the strikes to get him down. If anyone id have to say GSP


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## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> I thought with regard to simply standing exchances, Rich Franklin wasn't doing too badly in the first fight. As soon as Anderson locked up the Thai clinch and started crushing Rich's body, the fight changed dramatically.


That is, IMO, because Rich is a fantastic striker and it takes some serious skills to dominate him standing. But with Anderson, it was like Rich couldn't really hurt him and Anderson just picked his shots and saw his oppurtunites and eventually got to his body with the knees and found his distance. Anderson, although very aggressive, can be a very patient stand up fighter if he knows what he wants. So yes, Anderson seldom risks it all in exchanges, he is more like a "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee" type of fighter. He dances around, BAM slick combo and then he moves out. He doesn't swing for the fences.

But in the MW division, I doubt that anyone can submit him. He's obviously worked A LOT on that part of the game, and judging just from how he handled Marquardt and Henderson on the ground I'd say he's an exeptional BJJ player.


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## looney liam (Jun 22, 2007)

realisitically the only person who can stop anderson silva is father time. when they eventually fight i see father time winning by natural causes.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

ATM-
I'd say #1- Yushin Okami- I've been saying this for a long time and it sucks because the hand injury delayed this fight. Okami is a lot better than when they last fought and he has the ground game to take Silva down, hold him there and work GnP. I can see Okami winning this fight.​ 
#2- Nathan Marquardt- he has only steadily gotten better since he last fought Silva. Obviously not on the same level as Silva's stand-up but Nate has gotten better and better with his stand up, has grown in confidence and he's always had the ground game. I think Nate has the best chance of any fighter to avenge his loss to Silva.​ 
Silva is an amazing fighter and it will take a supremely confident fighter that sticks to their gameplan and can force Silva to go deep into the fight. They will get rocked at one or more points so it will be up to them to recover or try and keep it on the ground and in a dominate position. Silva can still be dangerous on the ground but much less than when standing. 


EDIT: oh and I'm not completely dismissing Cote- though I don't think he has a good of chance as Okami and Marquardt- I do think he has a shot in this fight as he's never been knocked out before and has better striking than Hendo's wild swinging right hand. While I believe Silva will win I really wanna see Cote crack Silva flush with a power shot because Cote's got some very power in his shots and I wanna see how Silva handles that. I could be wrong- but I think Cote has a decent chance to take this, hopefully, into the 3rd round.​


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## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

IMO the only person that has a chance would be GSP if he bumped up. Bisping has the best chance in the mm division or Hendo one more time other than that no one.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

what is hendo gonna do? outstrike silva? no...take him down...ok...and lay on him for 5 rounds like he tried to do? no...

hendo doesn't have the skillset to beat anderson...


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## Bazza89 (Dec 31, 2006)

Hendo if he stuck to his gameplan would have a pretty good chance IMO but he won't stick to his gameplan so...

I think Marquadts the man to be Silva even after the loss, IMO he matches up pretty well stylistically.

Outside of the UFC, Lindland could put him down and keep him there but in a 5 rounder I think Andy has too much time to finish him. Jacare??? Standups still too limited.


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

hendo via lay an prey HE can but will he? ultimatly fedor in catchweight


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Bazza89 said:


> Hendo if he stuck to his gameplan would have a pretty good chance IMO but he won't stick to his gameplan so...
> 
> I think Marquadts the man to be Silva even after the loss, IMO he matches up pretty well stylistically.
> 
> Outside of the UFC, Lindland could put him down and keep him there but in a 5 rounder I think Andy has too much time to finish him. Jacare??? Standups still too limited.


lindland wouldn't last one round....oh and if he did, he would have gassed

i think nate has a decent chance in a rematch


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

It's going to take a solid submission fighter with solid takedowns. Someone like Palhares. Almeida would do well, too. Marquardt in a rematch would be interesting.


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## Bazza89 (Dec 31, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> lindland wouldn't last one round....oh and if he did, he would have gassed
> 
> i think nate has a decent chance in a rematch


Yeah I was more throwing it out there as regards to Lindlands style and the fact that he wouldn't care about just laying on Andy.

I don't think Hendo has a chance really come to think of it. I don't really like Dan at 185, he always seems to be in much better shape at 205.


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## Grotty (Jul 21, 2006)

At present i see Marquadt being a legitimate threat to Silvas crown, blimey even fatty Lutter did ok for a while and he has no standup (eastman exception) lol,


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Bazza89 said:


> Yeah I was more throwing it out there as regards to Lindlands style and the fact that he wouldn't care about just laying on Andy.


I'd really dig a Lindland vs Silva fight, as Lindland could give Silva some trouble. Lindland's greco roman wrestling is excellent, and he has a really solid sub game. He doesn't lay on people anymore, he stays active, and he pushes a solid pace.


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## Bazza89 (Dec 31, 2006)

I haven't really kept up with Lindlands fights for a while so I don't know, but with his wrestling he can give anyone trouble. Plus he's not gonna get dragged into a brawl like Hendo.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

That and he's not inconsistent at MW like Henderson is.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

but his skillset is incredibly weak...he's got a gullotine and a good clinch game....he doesn't do much on the ground, has a REALLY bad gastank, his standup is terrible.....

everything he could offer silva is defensive...whether it being clinching and holding on, or taking him down and laying on him....i think you have pour some offense on silva to beat him...and Lindland isn't capable of that


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## name goes here (Aug 15, 2007)

Neither Lindland, Okami, or Dan are anywhere near A.Silva's level - but if anyone where to get lucky it would be one of them.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

plazzman said:


> I think Hendo could do it if he sticks to his gameplan, doesn't swin wildly and utilizes his wrestling full force.


I agree.


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## SpecC (Nov 18, 2007)

hottrizzy15 said:


> Okimi, Anderson Silva does not have a winning record against Japanese fighters. Silva has never knockout or submitted a Japanese fighter.


speaking of this, who remembers that random Cung Le interview? Anderson Silva's kryptonite is Asian fighters!


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## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

Nobody


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

GSP if he came in underweight. If they had a 185 fight GSP would have to come in around 177-78. The issue wouldn't be strength, it would be speed. I could see GSP coming in, taking him down and winning by gnp, rnc or armbar. If anyone else wins against Silva it's going to be a fluke kind of thing, like Serra against GSP, and it would most probably be discredited. Just think about it, if Cote gets a lucky punch on Silva what's it going to do to Silva's reputation? not much. He's been beaten before, and there's no way anyone but GSP could dominate him. I see it going down as GSP beating Penn, then probably Kos again, maybe Fitch again then Silva, at the end of next year at the superfight around Christmas. Pretty good chance it's gonna happen like that.


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## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

One thing that might stop him is a fricken gernade to the jugular. You never can tell that propbably wouldnt work either


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## Johnathanrs (Oct 8, 2008)

*Anderson Silva review*

This is my opinion of the strengths of Silva and some good match-ups. 

Anderson Silva: Most dominant Striker currently in his weight range. 

Standing:
1.	Unbelievable Precision he has in his striking game with his punches, kicks.
2.	No other striker in his weight category can challenge him in this realm from his reach, height, precision and power. 
3.	His cardio levels most don’t realize is also on a different level.
4.	His experience level. 
5.	High mental strength

Ground Game: 
Extremely good on the ground game as well.

If you watched the fight vs. Travis Lutter it was the first time I saw Anderson Silva breathing hard as the 1st round ended in his recent fights. But, that was nothing compared to the level that Lutter was coming at him. In which he got tired 2nd round and fell right into a triangle, which you wouldn’t expect from a ground game specialist like him. The thing which gave out in that fight in my opinion was Lutter’s cardio. Another recent fight I would like to focus on is the fight with Henderson. I think this was also a great display of how to beat Anderson. I think Dan Henderson was doing great 1’st round, also in fact I think he won that round. The way to beat Anderson Silva is the same style, but the problem where he messed up was he stayed on the feet far too long vs. Silva. Silva is an opponent you have to take to the ground; putting into account also his precision in the striking area. Silva has no weak area’s when it comes to the ground, feet, or cardio. There are three areas’ he can lose thou too in my opinion.

1.	Anderson Silva is a loose fighter. Some of his MMA loses to nobody’s were sudden bursts of energy on his opponents where they caught him in a random move and submitted him. For example he fought a Japanese fighter who he was dominating on the feet. His opponent out of desperation does a leg scissor sweep and a heel hook to submit Silva. No one saw it coming and couldn’t believe how Silva lost. This is a good example, Silva’s calm and cool state is weak to explosive quickness where key players like GSP is one of the best at. The problem with GSP thou is he is explosive, but doesn’t do unpredictable moves. Moves that Silva isn’t used too, and doesn’t train for is key in this area.
2.	Another area of losses that comes from Silva is Ground and Pound. Players like Tito Ortiz was perfect in this area. It is one of the most stupidest things to watch in my opinion in a MMA fight. A fighter will use wrestling to take down an opponent sit in his guard and just ground and pound till the round ends. Next round, stay outside his reach wait for a chance to shoot again and repeat. Attempting passes only to prevent the ref from standing them up and wait till the fight is over. Silva has lost some of his fights to this style as well. In my opinion, I think in a rematch this is the style Henderson will use against Silva again. Only flaw with this technique in a 5 round match is cardio. Someone has to have the cardio for the constant ground and pound and take downs which drain a lot from you. Where the person who is taken down will rest and have much more energy which as rounds progress will make it much tougher to be taken down and much easier to be caught with something. For example; Player A=Stand up, Player B=Wrestler, Player A sat on his back in first two rounds. Player B really tired as he keeps trying to take down his opponent. He shoots, moves into a clinch, Player A explodes with knees which player B can’t prevent because he is so gassed from the previous rounds. 

Anderson Silva’s standing style only way to be countered is someone who is as skilled in precision, power, and speed. Who has a reach advantage on Silva which will force Silva to come in. Silva always waits for his opponents to come at him to feel the rhythm of his opponents and there timing. This will not work against another defense stand up fighter who has a reach advantage on him. A good example of this would be Lyoto Machida.

Good fights I would love to see with Anderson Silva in UFC.

1.	Lyoto Machida vs Anderson Silva which I give to Machida. Both are defense fighters. 55/ 45 Anderson Silva is a much better striker in my opinion. But Machida is a defense fighter who waits for his shots and explodes. This counters Silva’s style who is also a defense fighter. The difference in this fight would be reach advantage and take downs. Silva could still win due to cardio which he beats Machida in or submission. 

2.	Thiago Alves vs Anderson Silva which I give to Silva but would a hell of a war. 40 / 60 Would be a awesome stand up fight. Alves has a chance of knocking out Silva which probably re-solve in the opposite. Still I would expect this fight to be a great war. I give it to Silva due to reach and weight advantage. 

3.	GSP vs Anderson Silva which I give too GSP. GSP would play it smart, explode take him down and sit on him. Anderson Silva still could win if he manages to catch him during the take downs or submit him. When GSP fights Alves this would be a good preview of what would happen vs. Silva. 55 / 45

In review: Anderson Silva has no equal in the stand up game in his weight class. Only a few can challenge him on the ground. Lastly, no ground fighters can keep up with his cardio and explosiveness. 

Ways he can lose:
1. Ground and pound: which would take someone who has better cardio then Silva. 
2. Catching Silva with a kick or punch: which would take a awesome stand up fighter on top of getting lucky.
3. Unpredictable explosive move: A random move where you explode onto Silva and catch him in something. Silva as the rounds progress gets in an grove and relaxes.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Johnathanrs said:


> Ways he can lose:
> 1. Ground and pound: which would take someone who has better cardio then Silva.


yup, have you seen what GSP looks like up close when he trains? There's a reason he wins so many fights. The best athlete I've ever seen in the UFC. He doesn't have an ounce of fat on him.


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## Judoka (Feb 23, 2007)

Like plazz said, Hendo if he stuck to a gameplan. Possibly Palhares or St Pierre. I think Okami would give him a challenge but not enough to maybe lose.


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## SuzukS (Nov 11, 2006)

Stylistically Dan Henderson actually matches up best with Silva, on paper. I would give him a good chance if he were to come out prepared with a good game plan.


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## Tilen (Jun 20, 2007)

Jacare. 
Maybe also Mousasi.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

I think someone with a good top game, both Bjj and wrestling, could take A. Silva out. A fighter like Filho or Arona or somethin would be a bad match up for Silva.


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## Grotty (Jul 21, 2006)

Judoka said:


> Like plazz said, Hendo if he stuck to a gameplan. Possibly Palhares or St Pierre. I think Okami would give him a challenge but not enough to maybe lose.


Im not questioning Palhares Jits but he could not stand with Silva, and even if he was to get it to ground Silva has damn good guard and Jits himself so bets case scenario for Palhares is losing to Silva on points.


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## Guy (Feb 17, 2008)

I can see Jacare being the biggest threat to Silva at this point. 

In the UFC though, I think Henderson could beat him if he came in well prepared, in shape, and fought smart. He gets too carried away with his powerful striking that actually exists at 205. Henderson at 185 is a much different fighter than Henderson at 205.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

No one mentioned Andy Wang yet? Really? Why do I always gotta be that guy? Alright, Andy Wang would murder Silva, the kid's a fkn warrior.raise01:


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## iSHACKABUKU (Sep 11, 2007)

> Like plazz said, Hendo if he stuck to a gameplan


I get so pissed every time i here this,

Hendo DID stick to his gameplan, and it failed. Even in the first when Hendo got Anderson down his GNP was pathetic and wasnt doing anything anyways. As soon as Anderson turned up the heat in the second Hendo couldnt hang and he went into survival mode. He then got torn apart.


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## GKY (Jun 3, 2007)

Palhares is the obvuius answer. He has the chin to get him down and from there its only a matter of a minute or to before he leglocks Silva's massively long legs.


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

I'd like to see Lindland fight him, but I know that won't happen.


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## mrmyz (Nov 23, 2006)

I think theres only three people right now that could do it. Okami might be able to do it but I can see him getting KO'd in the process. I think Cote would be able to do it but its a slim chance Im really pushing for cote on that one but I have no doubt hendo could do it if he didnt have weight cutting issues. Hendo dominated him durring the first round and anderson didnt have an answer for his grecco. I think he could do it the secound time around.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

*Why can't North America be more respectful?*

I just don't understand. At first, I figured that if an English fighter fought a U.S. fighter and the United States fighter won, the dude would be booed, but it is so not the case. The English crowd cheered for Marcus Davis when he won, I don't understand why the U.S. crowd can't be the same, why? I hate to stereotype my entire country, but you just can't deny the obvious. Maybe it depends on where in the United States the event is taking place, but I really wish it wasn't like that.

Edit: Canadians seem to be more respectful than the United States, so ignore the title.

Re-edit: I realize this is going to probably be a very polarizing thread, but I really don't mean to offend any of my United States brothers, I calls em hows I sees em.


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## Lachk (May 25, 2007)

I'm not sure.

Perhaps because the UK doesn't feel as if the rest of the world is against us - even though they probably are 

Plus we are so used to being beaten at sports (soccer and cricket etc) that we just appreciate a good athelete and are resigned to the fact that we cannot be the best in the world at everything (something that SOME Americans cannot grasp yet.

Either way it is refreshing to hear somebody from the US admit this too, it proves that there may be some hope yet


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## Tepang (Sep 17, 2008)

thats funny because the limey crowd just booed chris lytle for beating a English fighter.


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## Lachk (May 25, 2007)

They were booing the result, not the fighter.

Lytle himself looked surprised.

Taylor was not beaten as significantly as the judges said, if he was beaten at all. That was why there were boos.


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## shake&bake (Dec 17, 2006)

marcus davis was booed heavily at the weighins. and paul kelly was obviously cheered for loudly. It's called a homefield advantage and it happens in all sports. but when all was said and and fight was done, fans cheered for both guys as sign of respect. simmer down ya'll you don't go and get fired up when the fans in boston cheer loudly for the patriots and boo the opposing team. (just an example)


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## xernex (Sep 23, 2007)

As an american, and a Southern red-state american I feel I am allowed to say this:

An american, is typically a good person, with fairly good sportsmanship/ideals/manners

A group of americans....throw all of that out the window...

As the old saying goes never underestimate the power of stupidity in large groups


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

just to put this out there. Generally in the USA the asshole idiots are the loudest and the majority of us just shake our heads.


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## xernex (Sep 23, 2007)

^Exactly... every country has their share of assholes... ours just seem to be the loudest of them all


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## Tepang (Sep 17, 2008)

Lachk said:


> They were booing the result, not the fighter.
> 
> Lytle himself looked surprised.
> 
> Taylor was not beaten as significantly as the judges said, if he was beaten at all. That was why there were boos.


wtf are you talking about lytle was ahead the whole fight. Paul but up a great match but he still lost fair and square.

And I 100% agree erne


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Lytle was ahead the first round
the second round could have gone either way.
the third round Lytle lost.

Really I would have called it a 29-28 or a draw.


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## Lachk (May 25, 2007)

69nites said:


> Lytle was ahead the first round
> the second round could have gone either way.
> the third round Lytle lost.
> 
> Really I would have called it a 29-28 or a draw.


Exactly. Perhaps I should have said the nautre of the result, it was a very close fight and that was not reflected in the judges scores, that's what I meant.


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## screenamesuck (Jun 29, 2006)

there might not have been a lot of booing for who won fights, but there sure was a lot of booing that wasn't warranted tonight.


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## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

There's always booing at UFC events. What do you expect when you get a large number of drunk people who don't fully understand all of the aspects of MMA?


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

69nites said:


> just to put this out there. Generally in the USA the asshole idiots are the loudest and the majority of us just shake our heads.


apparently one of the asshole idiots is reading this and decided to neg rep me.


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## sicc (Mar 4, 2007)

Nice ******* trolling. Every country boos. Why don't you ******* pay attention to the crowds a little better and stop making idiotic threads that have been made over and over again.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

There was plenty of booing during the Jardine Vera match. Even during the post-fight.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

WTF? As a Canadian I thought this crowd was just as disrepectul as any American crowd, they boo'd Jardine/Vera for some stupid reason, they arent any more respectful and I dont really think the Canadians were either, the Canadians just loved all the Canadians on the card and disrespected the hell out of Sera, its the same everywhere you want to see respect the Japanese are respectful the UK has nothing on the US.


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## Zarlok (Jul 8, 2008)

What the hell fight was the OP watching??

They booed Irish to hell and back. They also boo-ed Jardine until he started kissing thier asses and telling them they are the nicest people on the planet. LOL. They also booed Leiben at the begnning of the fight. They should have booed the coward bisping and his Kalib Starnes impression.

Booooooo.

Michael "the robber" Bisping.


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## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

Look at how many non-american fighters are loved on this site. GSP, Silva, Wand, Nog, Fedor, etc, etc.
The British crowd booed a lot, including booing Leben before the fight. And how many times do we hear GSP chants at U.S. events? (answer - pretty much every fight). 
Japan is the only place that I don't see people boo a lot, and even they sometimes do. So why do people keep saying America is so bias against other countries fighters??? I would really like to know.


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## CTFlyingKnee (Jul 5, 2006)

This crowd seemed dead to me.....During the first minute or two of that Lytle fight (when they were swinging for the fences, nonstop) the crowd just didnt seem to be all there. The US would have gone NUTS to see such action


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Toxic said:


> WTF? As a Canadian I thought this crowd was just as disrepectul as any American crowd, they boo'd Jardine/Vera for some stupid reason, they arent any more respectful and I dont really think the Canadians were either, the Canadians just loved all the Canadians on the card and disrespected the hell out of Sera, its the same everywhere you want to see respect the Japanese are respectful the UK has nothing on the US.


To be fair, that wasn't a case of Canadians showing disrespect. It's only natural for the hometown hero to get cheered, whilst the villanous outsider gets booed. It's more a technicality or tradition than anything. Fact is, Serra got a more than solid send-off after losing, as the Canadian crowd rose to its feet and gave the man a standing ovation. Not to mention, we didn't boo any takedowns, which seems to be the new trend amongst casual, uninformed fans as of late. Sure, we got on Kalib Starnes' case, but can you blame us? He's Canadian, which shows that we're a crowd whom really only boos those who deserve it, no matter what their nationality. So I disagree, respectfully, mind you. When it comes to fans, I feel Canadians have proven to be the most respectful thus far. Dana White agrees, and he has no reason to lie 

That may change, however, if and when they come to Toronto. lol.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

the crowd was only good during the main event...otherwise, it was pretty lame...booing carwin after he mauled wain was just retarded...seriously...its one thing not to cheer...but to boo him is just gay


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## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

Canadian Psycho said:


> To be fair, that wasn't a case of Canadians showing disrespect. It's only natural for the hometown hero to get cheered, whilst the villanous outsider gets booed. It's more a technicality or tradition than anything. Fact is, Serra got a more than solid send-off after losing, as the Canadian crowd rose to its feet and gave the man a standing ovation. Not to mention, we didn't boo any takedowns, which seems to be the new trend amongst casual, uninformed fans as of late. Sure, we got on Kalib Starnes' case, but can you blame us? He's Canadian, which shows that we're a crowd whom really only boos those who deserve it, no matter what their nationality. So I disagree, respectfully, mind you. When it comes to fans, I feel Canadians have proven to be the most respectful thus far. Dana White agrees, and he has no reason to lie
> 
> That may change, however, if and when they come to Toronto. lol.



As far as I've seen that seems to be how it is every where. Maybe not Japan because Japan doesn't boo often but I bet their rooting for the native in a native vs outsider fight.


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## Scarecrow (Mar 20, 2008)

sicc said:


> Nice ******* trolling. Every country boos. Why don't you ******* pay attention to the crowds a little better and stop making idiotic threads that have been made over and over again.


It's attitudes like this that give American's a bad image. Bad form.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Is this thread supposed to be a joke? The UK has FAR more of a partisan nationalist crowd than the US. In the US, it's not unheard of to see guys cheering for popular foreign fighters like Wanderlei or GSP over the homeboys. By the reception Wandy got in the Jardine fight, you would've thought Jardine was North Korean or something. I have yet to see the UK crowd cheer for anyone over the local boy, no matter how good or bad he is. Heck, they'll boo every guy going up against a Brit fighter no matter who it is, that rarely ever happens in the US unless the fighter himself is unpopular. The most you'll get is some scattered chants of "USA..USA", and everyone complains about it. Not to mentiont the UK crowd booing at the slightest hint of a ground game or lack of KO. I mean the Jardine Vera fight might not have been the best fight of all time, but it was relatively busy. And in UK orgs like Cage Rage, even the commentating is so biassed, it's laughable.. watch the Anderson Silva-Lee Murray fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zByWAK22o1k

Seriously this thread is ridiculous, I loved the card today but the UK crowd had me disappointed. And I'm sick of this hypocritical victim mentality from some UK posters .. why don't some people like Bisping? Why are North Americans disrespectful? Sheesh, clean up your own house first.


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## Vikingpride (Jan 20, 2008)

Yeah i mean if your fighting the hometown guy or your not standing and trading hay makers with a guy crowd's tend to boo alot. It just shows that MMA is still a fairly young sport and alot of people do not appreciate all the aspects of mma. Like Rogan said it's a sporting event so there is alot of drinking. 

I also thought the Paul Taylor fight was close and if there had been another round i have a feeling Taylor would have gotten the Knockout. Lytle was running on empty.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Canadian Psycho said:


> To be fair, that wasn't a case of Canadians showing disrespect. It's only natural for the hometown hero to get cheered, whilst the villanous outsider gets booed. It's more a technicality or tradition than anything. Fact is, Serra got a more than solid send-off after losing, as the Canadian crowd rose to its feet and gave the man a standing ovation. Not to mention, we didn't boo any takedowns, which seems to be the new trend amongst casual, uninformed fans as of late. Sure, we got on Kalib Starnes' case, but can you blame us? He's Canadian, which shows that we're a crowd whom really only boos those who deserve it, no matter what their nationality. So I disagree, respectfully, mind you. When it comes to fans, I feel Canadians have proven to be the most respectful thus far. Dana White agrees, and he has no reason to lie
> 
> That may change, however, if and when they come to Toronto. lol.


It would definatly be diffrent in Toronto because in all honesty Montreal has always had weird crowds in other sports as well (french thing?), I just didnt feel the Canadian crowd was more respectful just it was a diffrent crowd due to it being the first time in Canada and the speed at which it sold old meant a higher ratio of hardcore fans than your average Vegas event.


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## iatis (Sep 24, 2008)

i don't know what you were watching but carwin got booed... so did a bunch of other fighters....
if you think english crowds are particularly respectful... you've obviously never lived in england period


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## _Destruction_ (Oct 7, 2008)

Anyone who thinks lytle didnt totally beat paul kellys ass is blind.Lytle was hitting him with right and left hooks and kicks the whole time.All kelly did was occasionally jab and only had one good combination at the very end when lytle was gassed


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

:sarcastic07:

Go to a soccer game in Europe.

Booing happens everywhere. Go watch some more UFC events that were in the UK, Canada, and USA.

If drunk people booing really affects you that much when watching it on TV, I'd recommend turning the volume off. Try being at the damn event.


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## name goes here (Aug 15, 2007)

If mma where more popluler in the uk, the crowds would actually get worse.


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## out 4 the count (Oct 13, 2008)

I was actually quite pissed off at the amount of booing last night after fights. The Lytle v Taylor fight was one of the best fights I've seen in a while and it pissed me off no end all the booing at the event. Yeh so what the English guy got beat, it was a great fight, show some respect for both of them and cheer!


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## LivingDedMan (May 10, 2007)

I heard a lot of booing during matches when it was uncalled for, so I don't know about which country's fans are more respectfull. This is a non-topic in my opinion.


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## out 4 the count (Oct 13, 2008)

I really hated the booing last night when it went to ground or there was a moment of inactivity. I don't mind the booing or cheering for crowd favourites, that's part of the bravado, but booing just because you don't know what's happening is bad. I thought the English crowd were a let down in that respect.


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## Couchwarrior (Jul 13, 2007)

I really have to disagree with the thread starter here The UK crowd is infamous for booing foreign fighters. Of course there's a lot of unnecessary booing on the US events too though, but more often due to other things.

But as somebody already mentioned, it's the stupidest 20% of the crowd that gets the attention 80% of the time, so nobody should feel self conscious about it unless they really have a reason to...


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## Bazza89 (Dec 31, 2006)

Yeah the crowd annoyed the hell out of me last night, so much so that I was actually glad I couldn't make it there.

Booing Leben and other foreign fighters before fights doesn't bother me too much but the idiots booing during the Jardine fight and when Carwin won made me go a bit crazy. It was funny when Rogan had a little go at the drunks for booing though, you can always tell he wants to say something bu this is the first time I've seen him do it.


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## SpiderRush (Apr 21, 2008)

I was at the NIA last night and I have to say the booing really annoyed me. A lot of UK fans are uneducated and don't understand what is going on so for some reason feel it necessary to boo. The booing after the Carwin fight was the worst by far and was just wrong. He destroyed Wain and should've been given a lot more respect. The fans that were booing the Taylor vs Lytle fight was down to the decision, as a lot of people thought Taylor won that. However after such a good fight both fighters should of been given a standing ovation no matter what the outcome IMO. Also lots of hate was aimed towards Leben before the fight with Bisping, but that was because 99% of the crowd were rooting for Bisping. However Leben did get a standing ovation after the fight as the fans appreciated the way he fought and his reaction after the fight.
I didn't think the treatment Jardine and Vera got was fair. I myself didn't think it was an exciting fight but I didn't boo. 
I will say though in defense of the UK fans that although there was alot of booing, at the same time there was a large number of fans who applauded and showed apprecitaion for the efforts of the fighters. The boos drown out any applause or appreciation though.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

You've got to be kidding me, when the UFC hits smaller cities(i.e not Vegas) the crowd is incredibly respective and into the fights. (see Maia vs McDonald) The Brits booed everything. Carwin was booed for dominating Wein. Jardine and Vera were booed even though it was a good, hard fight. Lytle and Taylor booed. The UK fans sucked, this has to be a joke topic.


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

69nites said:


> just to put this out there. Generally in the USA the asshole idiots are the loudest and the majority of us just shake our heads.


I would have to agree with this, although it's just about impossible to deny that crowds in the US tend to be pretty obnoxious.


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## zarny (Mar 4, 2007)

I think you are selling US fans a little short.

GSP is a Francophone Canadian and I've never heard any boos when he has beaten American fighters.

Everyone is naturally proud of their own country. Often you'll hear some boos for a fighter from another country regardless of who the host country is.

Anderson was booed in Cincinnati; Serra was booed in Montreal. After the fight though both fighters were cheered.

My observation of our neighbours to the south is that Americans tend to be a bit more nationalistic than Canadians, Brits and other countries. 

In the US you get US news coverage and there isn't much exposure to the rest of the world. Americans focus on America; therefore the average American tends to be a little ignorant about other countries.


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## WestCoastPoutin (Feb 27, 2007)

Since this thread is all over the place, Ive gotta chime in because I lived in Birmingham for a while.

When I lived in Birmingham, whenever someone would ask me where I am from, there was always a follow up question: "Why the hell did you move here? ARe you crazy?"

I had never been in a city more negative and more down on themselves than I did in Birmingham. I dont want to disrespect anyone from there, but that was MY OWN experience. I also lived in London and Manchester for a while and it was whole different attitude. So that overall feeling that half of the crowd was asleep and they only woke up to BOOO I think should be considered a Birmingham crowd and not a British crowd.

For the original poster, you say that Americans are disrespectful...

In 2004 during the Euro cup, I was living in the UK when the English had lost to Portugal. Im not sure of all the details but I know English fans were the 'Junie Brown' after Portugal won. A lot of English fans were actually starting fights and riots IN PORTUGAL overshadowing the Portugese win. Of the whole tournament, that was the thing that stuck most with me the most. Man, if I saw anybody with a football jersey during that week, I was turning the other way or crossing the road.

Those are some disrespectful fans.

Its not just in the US.


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

CornbreadBB said:


> I just don't understand. At first, I figured that if an English fighter fought a U.S. fighter and the United States fighter won, the dude would be booed, but it is so not the case. The English crowd cheered for Marcus Davis when he won, I don't understand why the U.S. crowd can't be the same, why? I hate to stereotype my entire country, but you just can't deny the obvious. Maybe it depends on where in the United States the event is taking place, but I really wish it wasn't like that.
> 
> Edit: Canadians seem to be more respectful than the United States, so ignore the title.
> 
> Re-edit: I realize this is going to probably be a very polarizing thread, but I really don't mean to offend any of my United States brothers, I calls em hows I sees em.


Im just going to jump in and say that I happened to be there last night and IT WAS AMAZING I jsut got back from Birmingham and I got Terry Etim's auotgraph (And he got his leg *UCKED UP! He was limping hard core on that thing when I talked to him) But back on topic. The crowd was actually HORRIBLE. 

They booed at freaking EVERYTHING and i could not believe the disrespect shown to the American fighters. They booed when Davis walked out and for a few moments after he won but they did swing his way. But everytime any county was mentioned outside of england they booed like crazy to be honest and the disrespect to Leben when he walked out as worse than Serra got in Canada.

They even booed Leben when Joe interviewed him but when he was graceful and thanked them they did appluad and cheer. but hell every single time it went to the ground they were booing.

They booed all the way through and I mean ALL THE WAY THROUGH JARDINE AND VERA. Showed absolutely no respect to Jardine and Joe Rogan even heckled them back because of it. So I really dont know what your talking about them being a better crowd. maybe it seemed like it on tv but man not in person.


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## Redrum (Jan 30, 2008)

After reading your post, Emericanaddict, I am starting to think it did come across different on T.V. or something. I think it is OK to boo or cheer when the fighters walk to the cage. I don't like it when booing occurs during the fight or after the fight unless it is for a very good reason. I think the reason that I was not as bothered by the crowd last night as I watched was because, at the end of the fights, the crowd seemed to give the fighters the cheers that they deserved, and that did make me happy. However, I have seen a couple of posts now from attendees of the event that the crowd was more unforgiving than I perceived, so I am not sure what to say at this point.


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## MetalMunkey (Oct 14, 2006)

Wow, I haven't seen one of these threads in forever. Good times. Reminds me of some good ol' Bungle trollin.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

It seems like people who were actually at the event have shown me the light. Sorry for the troll-like post, I guess I shouldn't make anymore vodka infused posts. :confused05:


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## WestCoastPoutin (Feb 27, 2007)

CornbreadBB said:


> It seems like people who were actually at the event have shown me the light. Sorry for the troll-like post, I guess I shouldn't make anymore vodka infused posts. :confused05:


HA! I thought you may have been drunk when you posted, but how do you say that without sounding like an ass online? I once got so drunk after an event that I posted something asking who was as drunk as me. THAT is drunk. At least you tried to make a discussion of it.:thumb02:


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## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

Redrum said:


> After reading your post, Emericanaddict, I am starting to think it did come across different on T.V. or something. I think it is OK to boo or cheer when the fighters walk to the cage. I don't like it when booing occurs during the fight or after the fight unless it is for a very good reason. *I think the reason that I was not as bothered by the crowd last night as I watched was because, at the end of the fights, the crowd seemed to give the fighters the cheers that they deserved, and that did make me happy.* However, I have seen a couple of posts now from attendees of the event that the crowd was more unforgiving than I perceived, so I am not sure what to say at this point.


I noticed that those cheers all came after the fighters put in the "The UK is so awesome" line. Up until they said that the crowd was either very quiet with boos and cheers or just boos. So really I think they were more or less cheering for themselves.


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## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

I watched UFC last night from home, and was very dissapointed in the fans. They seemed to boo at almost every situation where direct hits weren't being exchanged. The Jardine Vera fight was just awful. I couldn't believe how obnoxious the fans were being, Jardine even mentioned the fact that he was bummed out for having been boo'd for the first time. It's pretty dissapointing to see that sort of disrespect. I also don't remember the American fans ever being that disrespectful to the fighters, I think Jardine's statement was a testament of that. I feel kind of bad for the fans who are just trying to enjoy themselves there, and are being represented by the majority of disrectful people around them.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

Listen guys, I understand if you don't agree with me, but if you're going to negative rep me, at least leave your name. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, but I do have a problem with people insulting me without putting a reason.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Carwin got booed after he won in impressive fashion. Theres idiots in every country, not just America. Personally I thought the crowd was HORRIBLE!


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## yynnaot (May 28, 2008)

CornbreadBB said:


> The English crowd cheered for Marcus Davis when he won, I don't understand why the U.S. crowd can't be the same, why?


How could anyone boo Davis's fight??? He could be a martian and could have won the supreme control over the universe and i would still have cheered.... that was just a sick fight. 




CornbreadBB said:


> Edit: Canadians seem to be more respectful than the United States, so ignore the title.


If gsp lost to sera in montreal, we would have:
booed,
threw chairs,
riot,
and burnt down the white house (again, read history or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_Washington)
etc...


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## Satori (Sep 18, 2008)

I am going to post this thread here---

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/45258-how-good-brock-lesnar.html

---as a reference to how some of the guys (most Americans) are just saying it as it is--- Lesnar is an American fighter--- we all know that--- yet he is being analyzed/discussed here on his fighting abilities, skills and experience NOT his nationality IF it was just for that we all be saying praises, some of the folks on this thread are being pretty tough on there opinions of him and almost rooting for fighters from other nationalities---

what are they seeing? the American flag? or a fighters individual abilities with almost ZERO regards to his national background?

It has nothing to do with Nations for the most part even though it is typical to have some sort of national pride, I think the guys who KNOW about the sport will act properly and praise where praise is needed.

I am no fan of Brock at the moment--- I am *not say I will never *be a fan of his, BUT he will have to show us what he is made of before that comes into effect--- 

The guys here are rooting for fighters who have basically EARNED there fans through years in the sport or at least that’s fact for those who have been fans for a bit and not just new to the sport, INDEPENDENT of the fighters place of birth--- 

The objectivity and open mindness of most of the guys post on the thread quoted on Lesnar is prasie worthy.

Respectfully,
O


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

I have never ever cared about a fighter's nationality. it's just not relevant except as trivia to me :dunno:


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## Redrum (Jan 30, 2008)

I couldn't agree more, hexrei. Truly, a fighter's nationality should not matter. I want to see every good fighter that this world has to offer. After reading more posts in this thread, it does seem that I misperceived the crowd while I was watching it on T.V.. I wish the crowds in every country could be as respectful as the japanese crowd that I saw during the last dream event. I really have a lot of respect for the way that they view mma as fans. Martial Arts and those who practice Martial Arts deserve a high level of respect in my opinion.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

HexRei said:


> I have never ever cared about a fighter's nationality. it's just not relevant except as trivia to me :dunno:


I do judge fighters by their nationality.

the moment I hear Brazil I think "I'm probably going to love this guy"


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## Satori (Sep 18, 2008)

Japanese culture is FASCINATING (to me at least)--- Did y'all know (I believe Dana White said this but do not quote me on it) that Japanese fans really do not care who wins or looses as long as BOTH fighters give it all they have--- a winner only because there has to be one--- the way we see loosing is not the same as the Japanese people see loosing--- they enjoy the fight more then the win/victory.

O


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Have you ever been to a live event? On thing I noticed watching something live and then on TV, boo's seemed to get picked up better than the cheering. I really think it has to do with the sound equiment filtering out cheers through some method or other. In the BJ Penn vs Sherk fight live I heard people cheering almost as loudly for Sherk as they did BJ (BJ's was clearly louder but then again Vegas is also like half hawiian), but on TV I only hear the boo's for Sherk. Kind of awkward.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

It happens everywhere man Its not just the us. I know when matt was booed allot when he came in to fight Bisping Serra was booed allot when he fought GSP.


It happens everywhere and I dont care what anyone says we dont have anything on Europe's Football (soccer) fans.


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## The Dude Abides (Jul 8, 2008)

Lachk said:


> Plus we are so used to being beaten at sports (soccer and cricket etc) that we just appreciate a good athelete and are resigned to the fact that we cannot be the best in the world at everything (something that SOME Americans cannot grasp yet.


Might be used to it, but far from gracious in defeat for the most part though. ee the booing of anthems at the Mayweather Hatton fight and pretty much every game the "soccer" team plays. 

I don't really understand the booing in MMA myself. I have my favourite fighters that i cheer for, but it never has anything to do with where they are from.


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## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

Satori said:


> Japanese culture is FASCINATING (to me at least)--- Did y'all know (I believe Dana White said this but do not quote me on it) that Japanese fans really do not care who wins or looses as long as BOTH fighters give it all they have--- a winner only because there has to be one--- the way we see loosing is not the same as the Japanese people see loosing--- they enjoy the fight more then the win/victory.
> 
> O


Speak for yourself buddy  If a fight is great I will like it no matter who wins and I'm not japanese.


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## Satori (Sep 18, 2008)

dario03 said:


> Speak for yourself buddy  If a fight is great I will like it no matter who wins and I'm not japanese.



OHHH, do not get me wrong I am the same exact way:thumb02::thumb02::thumb02:, I don't care who wins or looses I will aplaude BOTH fighters if they put all in--- I was talking in more general terms, like saying MOST of us I believe are the same way---BUT not all--- see what I mean? of course one can NEVER throw a blanket statement of any kind because we are ALL individual people---


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## Vikingpride (Jan 20, 2008)

Where a fighter is from really doesn't influence my decision to cheer for them or not (well 90% of the time). There is one exception and thats Marcus Davis. Marcus grew up in Maine which is where I'm from and a friend of mine actually knows Marcus. I think i would be a fan anyways just because of his attitude and the fact that he's a guy who seems to always be improving. 

With that being said though i still wouldn't boo his opponent, but i just don't believe in booing mma events anyway.


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## vexred (Jun 9, 2008)

Roflcopter said:


> You've got to be kidding me, when the UFC hits smaller cities(i.e not Vegas) the crowd is incredibly respective and into the fights. (see Maia vs McDonald) The Brits booed everything. Carwin was booed for dominating Wein. Jardine and Vera were booed even though it was a good, hard fight. Lytle and Taylor booed. The UK fans sucked, this has to be a joke topic.


I must imagine all the USA chants haha! I did think the crowd was pretty poor though, Carwin shouldn't have been booed, he put on a good show and put that lump Wein in his place. However i can understand the booing after the Vera v Jardine fight, imo it was a poor fight and if I was there i may have booed because i expected to see something more from both fighters. The Lytle v Taylor fight was very close and the crowd obviously thought that Taylor would get the nod so must've been disapointed(no excuse for them to boo though). The booing of Leben was just pantomime stuff he was just the 'bad guy' who'd come to knock out Bisping, booing was to be expected but they did cheer him in the end which was good to see. i agree though, fairly poor crowd, I look forward to the event in Dublin, the atmosphere there will be great as the Irish are a great bunch!


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

vexred said:


> I must imagine all the USA chants haha!


Cheering FOR your country or its fighters (although I think its silly as is all nationalism) is a far cry from booing ANOTHER country or its fighters.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

What makes me laugh is that these people who boo fighters, would be all smiles and jokes with them if they met them in the street, and they'd be begging for an autograph.

I really was ashamed when the crowd boo'd Carwin, but you think any of them would boo him to his face? nuh uh!

I loved it when Joe Rogan said something like "i suppose thats what you get when you drink beer"


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## vexred (Jun 9, 2008)

HexRei said:


> Cheering FOR your country or its fighters (although I think its silly as is all nationalism) is a far cry from booing ANOTHER country or its fighters.


point taken...:thumbsup:


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## Zender (Dec 15, 2006)

I haven't read throughout the whole thread so apologies if this has already been posted but probably a good majority of the crowd knew the UK fighters. The UK isn't all that large a place so friends & family can make their way to Manchester without much difficulty. Hence more than usual uneducated people booing just because it's not their guy or they lost.

I didn't go through the whole thread because only on a few occasions I've noticed a crowd that I've thought has been worse than usual & they've had nothing to do with location. More often than not, they've been on smaller promotions.


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## Bazza89 (Dec 31, 2006)

Good point Zender.

I've definitely seen worse crowds, I think the reason this one annoyed me was cos it was in my own city. I said before, I'm actually glad I couldn't make it cos it would have ruined the night for me otherwise.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

*Strange Food You Eat......*

I was watching Iron Chef and they were using esoteric ingredients like organs and blood, so it got me to thinking, what are some of the strange food you guys have eaten? I haven't had anything that spectacular, but I have had liver, chicken necks (delicious!), frog's legs, and my all time personal favorite - SCRAPPLE! Man, when I was in Pennsylvania for a bit, we had that stuff for breakfast and it was pretty damn amazing.


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## name goes here (Aug 15, 2007)

What is scrapple?

Black pudding (ordinary enough in England - had them with school meals). Pheasent/ boar/ deer/ horse/ raw-horse/ raw-egg/ lamb tongue/ snail/ frog legs/ chicken cartiledge/ liver/ haggis/ kidney/ spam/ (not that weird really though)

Weirdest I've had is: Half grown chicken/embryo still in egg (weird Pinoy snack - made me throw up next day - though I was pretty drunk)


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

You just reminded me that I have had kangaroo meat as well. Here's a pretty vivid description of what is in scrapple along with cornmeal: "Scrapple, as its name suggests, was originally created to make use of whatever parts of the pig remained after the larger, more desirable parts were cut from the carcass. Offal, skin, and small shreds of meat scraped from the skull and bones would find their way into the scrapple pot. Modern cooks — or those without a pig carcass at hand — may use various other cuts of pork, including pork shoulder, pork butt, or even lean ground pork, to make their scrapple."


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

Spinal cord from a cow. Pretty good, actually.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

toad in the hole uhhuhuhhuhuh our english members will know what it is. It isn't weird by nature, it just has a goofy name.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

swpthleg said:


> toad in the hole uhhuhuhhuhuh our english members will know what it is. It isn't weird by nature, it just has a goofy name.


Dude, that looks sooooo good.


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## Satori (Sep 18, 2008)

OOOOHHHHH Boy I am gonna get some heat on this one, LOL here is my list
Iguana, 
Rattle snakes,
Frog Legs, Gator, 
Sweet bread (thymus glands)







, 
Cat, 
Horse, 
Kangaroo, 
Chinchulines (chitlins)









and the list is longer--- I try everything once.

there is only TWO things I just cannot eat
Balut 









and stink fish (decomposed fish) and decomposed seal fins they eat this in Alaska (native food)


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## RaisingCajun (Jun 22, 2008)

Gluteal Cleft said:


> Spinal cord from a cow. Pretty good, actually.


Cow tail is better.


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## Satori (Sep 18, 2008)

RaisingCajun said:


> Cow tail is better.


I agree


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

LOL! When I search for cow spinal cord, all I get is sites about not allowing them to be dog food anymore! I imagine it tastes pretty good, but is there enough meat so satisfy the hunger?


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## ShadyNismo (Jun 18, 2007)

Haven't ate anything too crazy, but I did drink snake blood when I was in China. :confused05:


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## bail3yz (Apr 22, 2007)

I am a ***** and never try new/weird foods.

I eat the same thing everyday.. all the time.. lol 
9/10 days i eat the exact same thing.. at almost the same times everyday..


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## K-A-P (Mar 4, 2007)

mmm Balut, I used to hate looking at it when I was a kid but as I got older my mind was much more opened to different types of food. I rarely eat balut though because of the serious amount of cholesterol from one of those eggs.

Does deep fried piranha count as strange? That stuff is tasty as hell wrapped in lettuce and rice paper.

-Jellyfish salad is always a must when I eat Dim Sum.
-I usually like eating a Vietnamese take on Cambodian Phnom Penh noodles (has like pig's heart, tongue, and liver in it with some quail eggs) extremely tasty stuff.

And being Vietnamese, I'm heavily exposed to dishes with fermented fish.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

make some mac and cheese

put a little BBQ in it. Friggin delish.


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## Couchwarrior (Jul 13, 2007)

Some things I've eaten:

Haggis
Pickled herring (pretty normal food here but I've heard some foreigners think it's strange)
Snails
Oysters
Grasshoppers
Ostrich
Kangaroo
Crocodile
Snake
Frog
A few things I've been offered, but refused to eat:

Kalakukko (disgusting finnish national cuisine)
Large beetles (~2*1 inches)
Tarantula
Horseshoe crab


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

CornbreadBB said:


> LOL! When I search for cow spinal cord, all I get is sites about not allowing them to be dog food anymore! I imagine it tastes pretty good, but is there enough meat so satisfy the hunger?


When I ate it (I was down in Mexico), they brought a plate of it. I started out by wrapping a piece in about 5 tortillas, figuring it would be nasty... but it was really good. I sucked the plate down, and asked for more.

Even though they ALWAYS have three pots of the nasty crap like boiled pig-skin soup, they didn't have any more of that. Ah, well. There are VERY few parts of a pig or cow that I didn't eat down there.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

I'm beginning to think that the more disgusting an animal part is, the better it probably tastes...I have also had tongue (not that odd of a Jewish meal), which wasn't really too bad. I wanna try me some chitlins!!


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## name goes here (Aug 15, 2007)

Just remembered; I had pig skin in the Philippines, locals digged it, but I didn't like it so much.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I ate puffer fish once. Friends (and girls) thought i was badass and reckless. Took me 2minutes after consumtion to hit up the bathroom and force myself to throw up, just in case :thumb02:

Badass in appearance, ***** at heart :smoke02:


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## carbonblack (Oct 29, 2008)

anybody eat borsch?


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## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

hah.. has anyone watched bizarre foods on the travel channel? pretty good show.. Anyway... let's see. I've eaten:

Gator tail
Ox tail
Snails
Quail
Ducks liver
Octopus 
Squid
Conch
Deer

nothing too out of the ordinary


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Gator & Crocodile
Oysters
Shark
Snails
Quail
Octopus 
Walleye (really tasty too)
Squid
Conch
Quinoa (not too many people know about this. I am sure most of you do though. Great source of protein and awesome sub for rice.)
Goose (motherfucker shouldn't have bit me)
Deer
Buffalo
Boar 
Snake
Crawfish (nothing big too me though. I like them more then lobster. Call me a *******)
Squirrel
Rabbit
Llama
Caribou
Elk 
Antelope (has anyone heard of endurance hunting? Something that you fitness guys might like. These animals don't have the ability to sweat so the idea of it is to track them until they drop dead literally. Read about it in Men's Health; i think it was antelope)
Lamb
Turtle (makes a great soup)
Frog Legs
Pheasant
Wild Turkey

Honestly I think all these things are present at Tiger Stadium on gamedays. LOL


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Years ago my husband brought home a walleye which I pan fried with shallots. it was unbelievable. I'm still waiting for another walleye to come home, or at least a steelhead to put in the smoker. pheasant is pretty good if you soak it in milk so it doesn't taste so gamey.
I forgot to say that while I was pregnant with my 1st daughter, our neighbor shot a bear and brought us some steaks, so wanting to be responsible I called the OB to ask if u could eat bear meat while pregnant. They said yes and I was the first pregnant woman ever to ask their office that lol. It was good with A-1.


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## Satori (Sep 18, 2008)

carbonblack said:


> anybody eat borsch?


Nope is it any good? I am willing to try it--- I looked it up online and it doesnt look to bad


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## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Gator & Crocodile
> Oysters
> Shark
> Snails
> ...


I was going to write a few of those, but I didn't think they were too off the wall... lamb and rabbit are both great, but not quite so weird.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Enceledus, Yeah I didn't think they were either. Gator was regular cuisine whne I lived in LA and sometimes in AL. I just assumed some people haven't tried most of that stuff. 

Swp, bear huh? Did Fedor kill that with his hands for you? Be honest!


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

We always have borsch and pickled herring in the fridge. I got some tongue last night and the texture was too close to human tongue so I couldn't really eat it. Taste wasn't bad though. I'd love to try me some bear!


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Enceledus, Yeah I didn't think they were either. Gator was regular cuisine whne I lived in LA and sometimes in AL. I just assumed some people haven't tried most of that stuff.
> 
> Swp, bear huh? Did Fedor kill that with his hands for you? Be honest!


Yes, many people don't know it but Fedor used to live in beautiful St. Clair Shores, Michigan, b/c he heard MI had a lot of bears for him to grapple with.


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## screenamesuck (Jun 29, 2006)

They tried to get me to eat this in Mexico...









Those freaking flying ants are atleast an inch long and they bite. thousands of them decided to migrate through the neighborhood one night. Sounded like a bat was flying over my head, good thing for the mosquito nets over the bed. They cook these things and eat them like popcorn, ewwwwwww


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## RaisingCajun (Jun 22, 2008)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Honestly I think all these things are present at Tiger Stadium on gamedays. LOL


Yeah .. they probably would have squid at Tiger Stadium on gamedays. Food is better 50 miles west ...


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

RaisingCajun said:


> Yeah .. they probably would have squid at Tiger Stadium on gamedays. Food is better 50 miles west ...


You talking about Lafayette? I had/have family all over the state from Lake Charles, New Orleans, Monroe, New Iberia, Alexandria, and Lafayette. I love all the little changes in recipes throughout the state.

I just mentioned tiger staidum because people from all ove rthe state coome there for gameday and cook the best foods.


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## carbonblack (Oct 29, 2008)

Satori said:


> Nope is it any good? I am willing to try it--- I looked it up online and it doesnt look to bad


it is the bestt food ever for me.
well idk maybe that's because i'm russian haha.



CornbreadBB said:


> We always have borsch and pickled herring in the fridge. I got some tongue last night and the texture was too close to human tongue so I couldn't really eat it. Taste wasn't bad though. I'd love to try me some bear!


uhm i think what you're eating is not borsch. :confused03:

ask a russian lady or something to make it for you, then you would be like raise01:


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## carbonblack (Oct 29, 2008)

sorry if i sound like an idiot ritght now im kind of drinkging


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

Some crazy shit I've nibbled on.

Raw squid
Shark
Kangaroo
Kale-Pache (goat skull)
Goat/Cow Brain
Chicken heart (surprisingly, its probably the best tasting thing there, my mom used to make it alot)


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## Judoka (Feb 23, 2007)

Vegemite, practically all foreigners and some Australian's hate it bit I love it. Vegemite toast is one my favorite things to eat.


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## Couchwarrior (Jul 13, 2007)

Judoka said:


> Vegemite, practically all foreigners and some Australian's hate it bit I love it. Vegemite toast is one my favorite things to eat.


Speaking of things that mostly every foreigner hates the taste of, I forgot to mention _salmiac_, or ammonium chloride flavored candy (and liquor). I'm sure everyone from northern Europe has eaten it plenty of times, but I've heard most of the people in the world can't understand why anyone would voluntarily put it in their mouth.


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## AK-Bronco (Feb 25, 2008)

Spring Bear
Mountain Goat
Dahl Sheep
Elk 
Moose 
Ptarmigan 
Salmon shark jerkey


and my daughter's favorite weird food smoked silver salmon bellies. (Pure Omega 3 fattie goodness)


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

*UFC 92 Countdown....*

Did this shit seem more theatrical than usual, or was that both of the fighters had good stories? I'm sorry I can't ******* wait for this fight, but this shit reminded me of WWF a bit much.


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## ryano1985 (Jun 17, 2008)

i missed it, got a link to it by any chance?

nevermind, google found it quick... ill bring my review back in about 45 min

... and my anticipated review, haha. im a very anti drama guy, i cant stand it. but drama has always been a part of mma(imo), and its the one aspect of the sport that im not a uge fan of. i like the real sh!t and i like fighting. i see what your sayin, it did seem as if they used a wwf tactic, they kinda hyped sh!t up.. but other than that i still found it pretty interesting.


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## ShadyNismo (Jun 18, 2007)

The anticipation is gettin to me too, but I work 2mow night, so I get home, sleep and BAM its Saturday. :thumb02:


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## Toro (Aug 11, 2007)

ryano1985 said:


> i missed it, *got a link to it by any chance?*
> 
> nevermind, google found it quick... ill bring my review back in about 45 min


For anyone else looking for it. http://www.ufc.com/ You can watch it on the main page.

I really enjoyed this countdown and made me even more hyped for the fights.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Almost all the Countdowns are the same IMO, there's a formula to them. And it's not just a WWE/wrestling thing, hyping fights like this has been going on in boxing for a long time too, and it generally works.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

*UFC in NY...I want Maggie NOW!*

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/mm...to-cut-through-hysterics-and-m?urn=mma,132555



> Tomorrow, the legislature of New York will again consider allowing mixed martial arts in the Empire State. In MMA's last attempt to win the approval of New York's Committee on Tourism, Arts and Sport Development, the bill failed before it even got out of committee. That was due in part to the raging ignorance of the members of the committee, who claimed not to know much about the sport but also maintained that it was brutal.
> 
> Now that the UFC has spent time and money lobbying and "educating" the state government, ignorance can no longer be feigned. The state of New York could benefit from staging not only UFC fights in New York City and Buffalo -- which would bring the state more than $13 milion for both shows -- but also smaller shows in Albany, Syracuse and other cities around the state. Right now, NYC is projecting that budget shortfalls will reach $8 billion by 2011, and the state has $15 billion deficit. Why would any responsible legislator not allow for the possibility of a sport that is not only a potential cash cow, but also is regulated in most of the other states in the country. MMA events happen in California, Nevada, Illinois, Florida and New Jersey with regularity, and no harm has come to these places as a result.
> 
> It's time for New York to stop pussyfooting around and listening to the hysterical calls of a vocal, uneducated minority. Pass this bill, reap the benefits and then spend a little time on things like education and the flailing economy.


The lady speaks the truth, I honestly could not have put it better myself.


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## ShadyNismo (Jun 18, 2007)

UFC gonna make so much if NY lets them fight there.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

*Is it worth it?*

Okay I'm a douche and didn't know the UFC event was going to be played during the day. When I finally went to the PPV channel, I was no longer able to order it (great story right?) So anyway, I know most of you have seen it and I'm doing very well with not looking at the spoilers, but there is a thread called worst PPV in a bit, so I'm wondering if I should still buy it? I mean I'd rather not spend $50 on a shit event and just buy the Affliction one instead. Let me know guys, I want to learn from your mistakes!


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## unclehulka13 (Nov 17, 2008)

Save your money for Affliction. I want my money back, i feel like i got held up by gunpoint, only the gun was a butter finger.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

save your money, dl the event in a few days for free


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

I dont think it was such a bad event. But having said that, theres been better. If i were you i'd buy the Affliction PPV. Arlovski vs Fedor will be a better fight than any on this UFC card


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

imo if your going to pay, pay for affliction.

besides you can head hunt single fights easily right now anyways. i watched it live, streaming and free from my computer xD


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

save ur money. i'm glad I watched it for free online.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

I'm happy I didn't order it but now I'm going to have to get incredibly drunk. (Like I'm not now anyway.) Only problem is I can't drive anywhere and I'm stuck home, maybe I'll just invite that ugly chick over. Thanks guys!


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Well put its this way Would you give $20 to watch Lytle and Davis slug it out for 15 minutes? Another $25 to watch Franklin and Hendo put on a great war? If the answer to both questions is yes order it other wise pass.


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## vexred (Jun 9, 2008)

isn't worth your money at all!!
i wasn't impressed by many of the fights, including the Lydle v Davis fight which i thought would be much more entertaining.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Well put its this way Would you give $20 to watch Lytle and Davis slug it out for 15 minutes? Another $25 to watch Franklin and Hendo put on a great war? If the answer to both questions is yes order it other wise pass.


You've probably made his mind up there. Not because you pitched it well, but you kinda spoiled the Lytle/Davis fight for him now


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## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

The event was abysmal. Download it. Buy Affliction

I went to Hooters and saved some money watching it. If you really want to see it, go to a bar


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## Villian (Jul 23, 2008)

Definitely not worth $50

PS: i can give you the results if you want.


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## elardo (Jul 8, 2007)

Palhares/Horn was a good fight too. I think they were all good, except for the obvious let down. Affliction 2 will be better though.


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

i was happy with it, except well yeah thats been beat to hell today. but that in mind id save for Affliction, the card is stacked as hell, or if your not sure about affliction 2 weeks is GSP v Penn, that will definatly be worth money!


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

I would tell you to save your money for Affliction, and watch Lytle vs. Davis online for free.

I know there was one bad decision of the night and you might not want to see it.


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

If you wanna see like two good fights out of the whole card, then go ahead and buy it..other wise download it.


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## Vikingpride (Jan 20, 2008)

Yeah i went down to a bar and watched it. It wasn't anything great I was actually quite underwhelmed. 

To top that off my Phones not working and i was under the impression that i was meeting a few buddies down there. Of course i guess they decided to wait for the replay at 6 and i never got the message (damn phone). So i get to the bar sit at a booth/ table and wait for them to get there. Needless to say they never get there and i'm stuck sitting at a booth alone. O well on the brightside i got into a few good conversations with some random people. Also the reason why i didn't just go up to the bar after awhile was because the bar was full. Also for the most part the rest of the place was empty so i wasn't really preventing anyone else from sitting down. Plus it prob had the best view of the tv. 

Back on Topic Cornbread best bet would be to order affliction, get wasted ,and invite that ugly chick over (who by the time your drunk should look alot better).


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

*Noooooooooooooooo!*

I was _so_ looking forward to seeing the prelim that gave us such a bloody mat... grr.


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## roboyobo (May 28, 2007)

I was thinking the same thing when i started watching the Akiyama fight, i was wondering who left their DNA all over the mat. anyone have the answer?


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## Judoka (Feb 23, 2007)

I think Bonnar got a cut but I think it was the Danzig fight.

Didn't see them so I could be horribly wrong.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

to the words right out of my mouth I remember that as soon as the fight started I thought where the hell did that all come from.


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## Simmi (Jan 18, 2009)

That can't have all been one guys blood can it? I mean there was crimson on all eight sides when they came on air. Insane!


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## Composure (Jun 24, 2008)

I don't think that covered half the canvas.


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## Darkwraith (Jun 4, 2008)

I kept saying between every fight...man I hope they show us the fight that showered the mat with blood, but I know they will make us go on the website and pay to watch it...


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## truebluefan (Oct 22, 2007)

Several archive threads were restored and posted in here.


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## truebluefan (Oct 22, 2007)

bump up


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