# Worst lay n pray in UFC?



## robby767 (Dec 24, 2006)

Wich fighter in the UFC has the worst Lay n Pray. Meaning wich fighter constantly takes down opponents and doesnt try to finish with strikes or submissions. In my opinion it would probably be Sean sherk. There are others who are probably alot worse that arent coming to mind, but i jost watched Sherk-Florian and i can say that is some of the worst lay n pray i have seen in a while. Sherk locks onto him and barely throws any punches and zero submision attempts in a horribly boring Five round fight.

p.s This is definately one of the most boring title fights in the last few years, dont bother watching it.......ever.....dont say you werent warned.


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## usernamewoman (Sep 24, 2007)

gsp and koscheck, followed by tito ortiz


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

easy, jon fitch ugh


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

GSP doesnt have lay and pray... did you only watch his one fight against Hardy or something? If you look at any other of GSPs fights, he is constantly doing damage and trying to finish a fight.

one poor performance on the ground doesnt deserve a lay and pray title.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

GSP does not lay n pray at all. Tired of all the GSP haters. GSP is very busy on top.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

GSP does *NOT* lay n pray. It does get tiring hearing people say that about him.

For me Josh Koscheck is the worst - but only when he gets into that mode. Kos has decent stand up and can do some decent damage but in his last fight with Paul Daley he dry humped him for 15mins and i nearly fell asleep!

Outside the UFC King Mo vs Mousassi was the WORST lay and pray i have ever seen! That fight was an abomination!


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## Thiago_Alves (Sep 11, 2009)

John FITCH, most BORING fighter of UFC ..


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Thiago_Alves said:


> John FITCH, most BORING fighter of UFC ..


John Fitch is the king lnp in mma history.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Somehow I'm thinking Gray Maynard. He's become a standup guy in his recent fights, but when I think Gray Maynard I automatically think boring decision.

Clay Guida comes to mind. He's got the most active lay and pray ever. I can't really say he doesn't try to finish fights, it just seems he's not capable to most of the time which results in rather uneventful fights which most people seem to like because he never stops... and he's got weird hair.


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

GSP is the gold standard.


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## Guymay (Jul 6, 2009)

Who is this Jo*H*n Fitch you guys talking about?


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I do not get why people say Jon Fitch is a lnp'er. He is one of the few guys always trying to advance his position on the ground and never just lays on someone and throws a few fists to keep it from being stood up. Go watch his fights with Alves, he finished him in the first, and had his back several times in the second one starting from full guard each time. Sounds like he is doing work to me!


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

I used to be a huge GSP fan but lately he's become such a boring wrestler. He's turned into a LNP monster.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

Since GSP and Fitch fight very similar its hard to say one and not the other. Though i wouldnt say they Lay n Pray. They'd just rather not risk losing top control.

Kos is probably the one which springs to mind. I'd say Sherk but he hasnt been active for a while.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

There is a lay and pray thread and no one has mentioned Rashad Evans yet? I really have zero interest in watching that Ali wanna-be dance around.... take someone down and then give them a slow sensual hump.

A little off topic but I still absolutely loved whenThiago Silva finally got the fight standing again and damn near put Rashad out while mocking him.

And who honestly leaves neg rep for this and doesn't identify themselves... what a *****....


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## moldy (May 6, 2006)

I'd say GSP has to be up there just because of how he used to fight. He has never KO'd anyone. He has some TKO's. But not a single win where he actually KO'd anyone. He has so much talent but is so worried about losing he takes them down and "kinda LnP'. I wouldn't say it is completly LnP. But when compared to the old GSP it is.


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## w0rM (Dec 29, 2008)

The absolute gold standard for LNP was Shamrock vs Gracie at UFC 5.

I can't think of a fighter that even comes close to that performance.


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## skinnyBIGGS (Jul 2, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> easy, jon fitch ugh


LOL DAMN STRAIGHT my votes the same , i dont think FItch has finished any oppentent but he brags no one in the UFC has finished him , check promos from the last even for full dialogue , i guess thats the counter to all the bashing he gets for not being able to finish anyone


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

amoosenamedhank said:


> There is a lay and pray thread and no one has mentioned Rashad Evans yet? I really have zero interest in watching that Ali wanna-be dance around.... take someone down and then give them a slow sensual hump.
> 
> A little off topic but I still absolutely loved whenThiago Silva finally got the fight standing again and damn near put Rashad out while mocking him.


Rashad isn't mentioned cos no matter how much he tries to lay and pray guys keep standing back up!


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Fitch without question. He can't even finish weaker fighters in the division because he doesn't even try, just holds on and controls. At least guys like Guida will strike or GSP looks to pass guard and go for submissions etc. Fitch is just willing to sit on fighters and do just enough so that it isn't stood up, that is why his last 7 wins have gone to decision...

For those saying GSP... His last 7 wins have been 4 by decision, 2 by tko and 1 by submission. And his fights have been against the best in the division compared to some of the low end guys Fitch couldn't finish.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

420atalon said:


> Fitch without question. He can't even finish weaker fighters in the division because he doesn't even try, just holds on and controls. At least guys like Guida will strike or GSP looks to pass guard and go for submissions etc. Fitch is just willing to sit on fighters and do just enough so that it isn't stood up, that is why his last 7 wins have gone to decision...


I can tell that you do not watch Fitch fights. He never just stays in guard, hell he finished Alves the first time they fought and almost got the RNC about 3-4 times in their rematch.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

moldy said:


> I'd say GSP has to be up there just because of how he used to fight. He has never KO'd anyone. He has some TKO's. But not a single win where he actually KO'd anyone. He has so much talent but is so worried about losing he takes them down and "kinda LnP'. I wouldn't say it is completly LnP. But when compared to the old GSP it is.


So he is considered one of the is the worst LnP because he hasn't KO'd anyone. :confused02:

Like plenty of other people have mentioned... even in the Hardy fight he was trying to pass guard and rip Hardy's arm off. So he doesn't take unnecessary risks, doesn't mean he's not still trying to finish fights.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

skinnyBIGGS said:


> i dont think FItch has finished any oppentent


Considering he's finished 10 of his opponents by sub/tko, i'd say you're right :sarcastic12:

He has struggled to finished the top tier level of fighters, but that's to be expected when you're a wrestler facing great fighters. He hasn't been the most exciting lately, just like GSP, he's been know to LNP a win recently, but it comes with being a wrestler.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

cdtcpl said:


> I can tell that you do not watch Fitch fights. He never just stays in guard, hell he finished Alves the first time they fought and almost got the RNC about 3-4 times in their rematch.


Fitch never came anywhere close to finishing Alves and their first fight was years ago and both fighters have changed a lot. Fitch never even had an arm sunk in that I remember. You can't say that he doesn't stay in guard either, the only time he passed on Alves was when Alves was working his way back up to his feet and giving up his back etc.

Why couldn't Fitch stop Sanchez, Wilson, Gono, Pierce and Saunders? They should have all been easy wins, 3 of them couldn't cut it in the UFC and the other ones are decent at best. None of them are well rounded fighters. Thiago and Alves are Fitches only good wins and Alves didn't come into their recent fight prepared. The other good fighter Fitch fought was GSP who absolutely dismantled him. 

Fitch is tough and is good at what he does but is boring and is the definition of a lay and prayer.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

GSP is pretty bad


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

early maynard was pretty bad imo.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

w0rM said:


> The absolute gold standard for LNP was Shamrock vs Gracie at UFC 5.
> 
> I can't think of a fighter that even comes close to that performance.


Well they didn't have stand ups and had a 35:00 long fight in one round. Read in his book Ken had original p,and to make in an hour long fight and wear out Gracie before he subbed him. Although I was impressed Ken could fight that long with no rest and continue to bounce his forehead off Royce's nose but that was in no way a fun fight to watch. 

However kos has to be the worst now his last fight with daly was horrible.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

I don't know about worst LnP fighter, but the worst LnP fight was Royce Gracie vs Ken Shamrock... thee worst.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

Fitch by a mile.


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## GriffinFanKY (Oct 22, 2007)

Fitch hasnt finished aanyone since Mid 07 and really seems content to just take people down but his GNP is not threatening and he seems to pitter patter peopleto death I really dread when I see Fitch is fighting


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## ballers101 (Aug 6, 2010)

vilify said:


> GSP is pretty bad


Okay in his last 7, four have been decision but he destroyed them when he took the fight to the ground. Look at the total destruction of Jon Fitch, Fitch should have lost that fight by Knockout but he's a really tough guy that's why he didn't get knocked out. The Dan Hardy fight twice I thought the fight was over but because Hardy has a never give up attitude he didn't tap out. 

GSP is an expert ground and pound and he is a very exciting fighter if you think he's pretty bad you don't know anything about MMA.


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## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

Fitch takes the cake at the moment. He seems content to sit in half guard and pitter patter away.


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

Fitch is rather annoying to watch,Koscheck sometimes,Rashad has been getting worse each fight that goes by those are just 3 that I can think of at the moment. 

GSP is not LNP,he actually tries to finish a fight ffs


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## Thiago_Alves (Sep 11, 2009)

The thing with Fitch is that he turns fights that on paper look pretty sick to BORING fights .. UFC 117 was a good example.


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

People need to stop saying GSP. GSP is very active when he takes people down, he doesnt LnP at all. Why did BJ Penn throw in the towel against GSP if he was just LnPing? Why was Jon Fitch's face so messed up if GSP just LnPed? Why did Dan Hardy just narrowly escape having his arm broken twice while screaming if GSP just LnPs?
There is a big difference between great wrestling and LnP, people.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Joe Henle never seemed able to figure out what to do with a person once he'd taken them down.


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## Couchwarrior (Jul 13, 2007)

w0rM said:


> The absolute gold standard for LNP was Shamrock vs Gracie at UFC 5.
> 
> I can't think of a fighter that even comes close to that performance.











Dan Severn. I don't think he ever threw a punch during his UFC career. He did once submit a guy with some rudimentary choke I believe, but except for that his only gameplan was to lay on somebody until they gave up (which fighters actually did back in those days) or until he got submitted, if he fought Royce. LnP has never been the same after standups were invented.

He had an awesome mustache though.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

cdtcpl said:


> I do not get why people say Jon Fitch is a lnp'er. He is one of the few guys always trying to advance his position on the ground and never just lays on someone and throws a few fists to keep it from being stood up. Go watch his fights with Alves, he finished him in the first, and had his back several times in the second one starting from full guard each time. Sounds like he is doing work to me!


This right here, just because he's using BJJ from the top and advancing not standing and falling back into a guys guard people think he's not working. He is more subtle than a lot of wrestlers in the UFC he's always working from the top. 

Imo it's Tito now, he used to really pound guys but since he walked in with Chuck all he does is lay in the guard and throw arm punches.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

OK, it´s near to unanimous that Fitch gets the title.

Someone with photoshop skill please edit a pic of him with a LNP champ belt. :thumb02:


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

John Goddamn Fitch - and it ain't even close 

His ability to control a fight the way he does with almost anyone put in front of him is absolutely amazing - albeit a little boring for 15 straight minutes...


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## Whitehorizon (May 27, 2009)

Are me and my buddies the only ones who think Guida lay and prays? He advances position, slowly, but doesn't throw hardly any punches. I cant stand watching his fight once he takes someone down. He swings his hair around and moves a lot but he isnt doing anything! Watch the Anjos fight. Yeah he won by submission on the ground but damn man.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Why has Jake "Sleeping bag" Shields not come up yet?


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

GSP and fitch.

And stop talking shit about sherk, he is a hero.
http://vimeo.com/2782359


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

lol @ the people who voted for Koscheck. 

He lays and prays for one fight against someone with amazing KO power and terrible TDD and you think he's worse than Fitch and GSP? How ignorant.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

AlphaDawg said:


> lol @ the people who voted for Koscheck.
> 
> He lays and prays for one fight against someone with amazing KO power and terrible TDD and you think he's worse than Fitch and GSP? How ignorant.


Well their was also Leben and Sanchez and Fickett and Joslin and likely Menne.

I think the difference between Koscheck and GSP is I can remember great GSP fights, Koscheck builds a fight and the best action is during the weigh-ins(Sanchez) and post fights (Daley).

The reason I don't have a problem with Fitch or Sonnen is that they aren't teases that make you think you are going to see a real fight.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

I like all these fighters. LnP doesn't concern me all that much. I don't get jumpy if a fight is "boring."


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

John8204 said:


> Well their was also Leben and Sanchez and Fickett and Joslin and likely Menne.


The most recent fight you mentioned was 3 years ago. At least try to reference a relevant fight instead of dwelling on the past. 

Jesus. You even brought up the Leben fight.


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## robby767 (Dec 24, 2006)

I dont understand why people think GSP should be on the list. Is it because he is a wrestler? is it because he likes top control? I mean watch his second fight with Serra or his third fight with Hughes, to me that sums up GSP on the ground. He is a very dangerous fighter who is extremely good in submissions. 

Fitch on the other hand isnt as bad as people like Chael were back in his WEC days or Sherk pre 2009, but i have to admit his fights are extremely boring. I dont know why he fights the way he does, It seems like he is afraid to take risks. The punches he hits opponents with are not thrown in a way thats intended to knock them out and he doesnt try as many submisions as he could.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

AlphaDawg said:


> The most *recent* fight you mentioned was 3 years ago. At least try to reference a *relevant* fight instead of dwelling on the past.
> 
> Jesus. You even brought up the Leben fight.


I did reference Daley, I wasn't aware that his fights with Anthony Johnson and Frank Trigg were more relevant then his first main event run on Ultimate Fight Nights and TUF.

At the very least Fitch, GSP, and Sherk have had fight of the nights, Koscheck has been fighting for six years and nada.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

GSP gave BJ and Fitch beatings from their guard that would have made me die. 

He doesn't take as many chances as i would like him to in some fights but *Georges St.Pierre does not a lay n' pray*. He is very active it just isn't always punches and elbows.

For the holy-grail of LNP see; Gray Maynard.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

robby767 said:


> He is a very dangerous fighter who is extremely good in submissions.
> 
> 
> he is actually pretty average at submissions. he's got good top game jui-jitsu with great guard passing but thats it.
> ...


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

John8204 said:


> At the very least Fitch, GSP, and Sherk have had fight of the nights, Koscheck has been fighting for six years and nada.


GSP, Fitch, Sherk and Koscheck are all one-time fight of the night award winners.

Nice try though:thumbsdown:.


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## Can.Opener (Apr 8, 2009)

Fitch is the worst by a considerable margin.

GSP is guilty in his recent performances and is probably the most irritating as we all know what he was capable of before the Serra fight. With his skillset it is infuriating to see him employ an overly safe, and boring, strategy.

Kos has been guilty of it early in his carerr and against superior strikers like Lytle and Daley, but I don't know how you can put him in the same category with some of his recent fights.. the Yoshida, Trigg and even the Johnson fight were not LnP.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

I would have said GSP if Jon Fitch was not in the equation. GSP was sick back in the days but since Matt Serra whooped him the first time he kinda plays it safe now. However as long as Fitch is the ufc its him by a mile. It got so bad with fitch i can call his every move. When u watch a Fitch fight u know ur in it for the full rounds.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

marcthegame said:


> When u watch a Fitch fight u know ur in it for the full rounds.


:laugh:

It's funny because it's true.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

rygu said:


> :laugh:
> 
> It's funny because it's true.


lol it is the only way a fitch fight ends early is when he faces gsp or he loses.


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## FGriffinFan (Mar 31, 2010)

gleison tibau


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

Clay Guida, with Jon Fitch in a close second. Seriously, when Clay Guida isn't getting his ass kicked, he is the most boring fighter in the UFC.

I voted GSP though, because I know with every vote for him pisses off a delusional fanboy out there.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Clay Guida, with Jon Fitch in a close second. Seriously, when Clay Guida isn't getting his ass kicked, he is the most boring fighter in the UFC.
> 
> I voted GSP though, because I know with every vote for him pisses off a delusional fanboy out there.


It does?

Oh. Oh, right. *drinks red wine with Greg Jackson and cries tears of rage*


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> lol it is the only way a fitch fight ends early is when he faces gsp or he loses.


Ends early with GSP? You mean how he went five with him and took a beating that no one else in the WW division would have been able to take? Not to mention Fitch has finished guys in the UFC and only lost to GSP. So are you watching his early pre-ufc fights.....

People love to hate Jon...it's annoying.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> Ends early with GSP? You mean how he went five with him and took a beating that no one else in the WW division would have been able to take? Not to mention Fitch has finished guys in the UFC and only lost to GSP. So are you watching his early pre-ufc fights.....
> 
> People love to hate Jon...it's annoying.


I'm not debating that ftich is a great fighter but facts are: Fitch has more decisions wins that that anybody in ufc history hell i'm going say Fitch has spend more time in a ufc octagon than Travis Fulton has spent in of ring during his 253 career if u take away those decision wins and 20 plus minute wars. WHich means Fitch has spend more time getting 14 ufc wins than a dude who has spent time getting over 200 fights.

HELL I WOULD RATHER WATCH SILVA DANCING AROUND FOR 25 MINS THAN WATCHING JON FITCH FIGHT ANYBODY. Its got to that point where he is the most boring fighter in the ufc. He is a great fighter tho but boring as hell.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> I'm not debating that ftich is a great fighter but facts are: Fitch has more decisions wins that that anybody in ufc history hell i'm going say Fitch has spend more time in a ufc octagon than Travis Fulton has spent in of ring during his 253 career if u take away those decision wins and 20 plus minute wars. WHich means Fitch has spend more time getting 14 ufc wins than a dude who has spent time getting over 200 fights.
> 
> HELL I WOULD RATHER WATCH SILVA DANCING AROUND FOR 25 MINS THAN WATCHING JON FITCH FIGHT ANYBODY. Its got to that point where he is the most boring fighter in the ufc. He is a great fighter tho but boring as hell.


I'd like to illustrate a point. Jon has had two more decision than GSP, who is soon to add another to that list making the difference one. It would only one right now except BJ Penn's corner stopped the fight. Sure Jon doesn't posture up and jump and throw a punch back into a guys guard. But he's constantly advancing and passing guard. Moving to a better position. Setting things up, it's a very subtle style for a wrestler. 

All that aside, if anyone could stop from getting the takedown you wouldn't have to watch it. And his striking is good too, he was getting the better of Thiago in the stand up imho before he took him down and completely shut him down.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> I'd like to illustrate a point. Jon has had two more decision than GSP, who is soon to add another to that list making the difference one. It would only one right now except BJ Penn's corner stopped the fight. Sure Jon doesn't posture up and jump and throw a punch back into a guys guard. But he's constantly advancing and passing guard. Moving to a better position. Setting things up, it's a very subtle style for a wrestler.
> 
> All that aside, if anyone could stop from getting the takedown you wouldn't have to watch it. And his striking is good too, he was getting the better of Thiago in the stand up imho before he took him down and completely shut him down.


GSP is a close second to fitch, however fitch is on a 8 fight decision streak which is more than GSP total decisions over his career. U gotta admit Jon is the shit but it gets boring watching him doing the same shit over and over without fishing the fight.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> GSP is a close second to fitch, however fitch is on a 8 fight decision streak which is more than GSP total decisions over his career. U gotta admit Jon is the shit but it gets boring watching him doing the same shit over and over without fishing the fight.


I never get bored tbh. Jon is easily one of my favorite fighters and I'm always impressed by his ability to just shut anyone down.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> I never get bored tbh. Jon is easily one of my favorite fighters and I'm always impressed by his ability to just shut anyone down.


i just don't like the ww division to much great wrestlers and to much of the repetitive style. That is y i felt that dealey was the dude to change the landscapes. GSP, fitch,kos are going to rule that division forever unless something changes.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> i just don't like the ww division to much great wrestlers and to much of the repetitive style. That is y i felt that dealey was the dude to change the landscapes. GSP, fitch,kos are going to rule that division forever unless something changes.


Don't forget about Jake "get a sleeping bag" Shields....he's in the WW division now too...

TBH I don't mind GSP he works most of the time, just doesn't finish. He's the same as Anderson just instead of clowning he tries things that he is working on in the gym because he knows if he messes up he can just recover. I don't watch Kos much and I love Fitch as I've said. So it doesn't bother me but it's clear that GSP will rule til he moves up. With Kos and Fitch hovering around 2 and 3.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> Don't forget about Jake "get a sleeping bag" Shields....he's in the WW division now too...
> 
> TBH I don't mind GSP he works most of the time, just doesn't finish. He's the same as Anderson just instead of clowning he tries things that he is working on in the gym because he knows if he messes up he can just recover. I don't watch Kos much and I love Fitch as I've said. So it doesn't bother me but it's clear that GSP will rule til he moves up. With Kos and Fitch hovering around 2 and 3.


GSP is sick and will rule that division unless AS comes down and beats his ass and takes his belt. What pisses me off tho is he is not only great on the ground but overall but yet he chooses to take the fight down and not finish it when he more than capable.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> GSP is sick and will rule that division unless AS comes down and beats his ass and takes his belt. What pisses me off tho is he is not only great on the ground but overall but yet he chooses to take the fight down and not finish it when he more than capable.


I'm not so sure Anderson would do much to GSP. After watching Chael dominate him for four and a half rounds I've been leaning towards GSP in a pretty one sided decision. But that's a different thread.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> I'm not so sure Anderson would do much to GSP. After watching Chael dominate him for four and a half rounds I've been leaning towards GSP in a pretty one sided decision. But that's a different thread.


See tho u have a great wrestler vs a great striker. All comes down who BJJ is better. The fight is in Silva hands. GSP has yet to submit a black belt BJJ fighter. Plus silva is a beast and he will do damage from the bottom just like the chael fight. I would love to see gsp get a elbow from the bottom.


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

Plus, GSP wilts under pressure. Silva doesn't. An ungreased GSP, Anderson takes that fight 9 times out of 10.


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

Jon Fitch for sure

But GSP drives me crazy due to the fact he doesn't have Chael Sonnen like GNP, but he refuses to stand and bang. So yeah GSP is boring to watch IMO.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I don't think that GSP is boring to watch and I don't think that Fitch is either. They both have dominant wrestling but they are both also always working in some way on the ground. I don't understand why if a fighter is grappling on the ground and trying to improve his position, it is considered boring. But when a fighter sits in their opponent's guard and throws punches, everyone loves them for it.


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## mattandbenny (Aug 2, 2007)

I voted other, i reckon Mike Pierce is the worst LnP guy, the dude is boring as hell.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

That's one dramatic Lyoto sig there, bro. Reminds me of Leonidus from 300 Spartans.


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

Fitch-Alves is the only fight on the last card I didn't watch. And not because I didn't want to, but because n argumenet broke out on a UFC chat room and that was more interesting. It stopped after the fight though, because the ME was coming up. :laugh:

GSP is a close second.


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

I agree GSP doesn't Lay n Pray but his still a pretty boring fighter to watch IMO. Fitch is the most boring top class fighter around by far. But i think Guida should be in that list also, but he only lays n prays if he is the better wrestler, if he isnt, he puts on some great fights. But when he out wrestles some one he will stick to them like glue with virtually no offense, he doesn't even try to posture up ever.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

I don't think GSP is boring per se, but my perception of his fights are that he's so damn dominant with his TD's and top control, that once he sinks in his first TD and he does it in a way that says, I've got your anal hole all day, his fight then loses that prospective, "might lose" element, and the lack of any form of anxiety or anticipation in his fights make it boring. Not necessarily boring because he LnP's, just boring in that, I'm 100% certain he's winning, its just a matter of waiting for the 5th and the bell.


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## gosuu (Sep 23, 2007)

Jon Fitch is kind of boring but I still really like him. It's unfortunate he's a '4th round finisher'and all non-title bouts are only 3 rounds. I am almost positive that if every fight had 4 rounds he'd definitely finish guys. At the end of the third they're so tired and gone that it's easy pickins for him. The only guy who made it a real one sided fight was GSP and GSP makes it a one sided fight agaisnt everyone he fights.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

I went Fitch followed by GSP and by looking at the poll.....it seems correct.....GSP does work, but he also looked like shit against hardy....and people remember only what they last saw unfortunatley.....I happen to think Goreges fighting has become too safe and too predictable and it will be a matter of time before he gets beat, hell I could see Fitch doing well better against him.....

Or Dana could make my dream come true and have him fight Nick Diaz.....


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

I still don't know how Jake Shields hasn't popped up on this board yet....he is officially in the UFC now.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

I believe he may have been mentioned earlier in the thread.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

By and far Fitch. Hell, the 30 sec of his creepy staredown is more xentertaining than 15 minutes of him fighting. What really sucks is that it is so damned effective


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## sNatch204 (Oct 13, 2006)

When was the last time Koscheck layed on someone other than the Daley fight? 

Fitch is the most boring fighter in the UFC. GSP has the same style as Fitch but he does a ton more damage, and comes much closer to finishing fights. Koscheck to me is far from a boring fighter.

I hate watching Fitch with a passion.


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## zarny (Mar 4, 2007)

Spec0688 said:


> GSP doesnt have lay and pray... did you only watch his one fight against Hardy or something? If you look at any other of GSPs fights, he is constantly doing damage and trying to finish a fight.
> 
> one poor performance on the ground doesnt deserve a lay and pray title.




Even if you look at the Hardy fight. GSP nearly ripped his arm off twice.

All of the fighters listed try to finish their fights. 

It's simply that they aren't always able to do so.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

King Mo for me!


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## Ground'N'Pound5 (Aug 7, 2009)

i went with fitch

imo rashad aint too far away from him (thiago silva fight)


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

zarny said:


> All of the fighters listed try to finish their fights.
> 
> It's simply that they aren't always able to do so.


Thank you, I love that people seem to think that Fitch's whole gameplan is basically I'm just going to lay on him and that's it. That's just plain ignorant.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

John8204 said:


> I did reference Daley, I wasn't aware that his fights with Anthony Johnson and Frank Trigg were more relevant then his first main event run on Ultimate Fight Nights and TUF.
> 
> At the very least Fitch, GSP, and Sherk have had fight of the nights, Koscheck has been fighting for six years and nada.


Koscheck also punished a guy some people thought was going to win by a submission off of his back and that guy is Chris Lytle. That was some vicious ground and pound and don't let it going the distance fool you. Lytle is very hard to finish, although he was still dominated and only his heart kept him in that fight. 

I think that Koscheck played it safe against Daley because he didn't want to risk his title shot. Lytle has a way better ground game than Daley yet he was nearly getting his face indented into the mat by Koscheck.


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

zarny said:


> Even if you look at the Hardy fight. GSP nearly ripped his arm off twice.
> 
> All of the fighters listed try to finish their fights.
> 
> It's simply that they aren't always able to do so.


Heh wow, the whole 20 seconds on the ground it took for that to happen out of the 25 minutes! How active!


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Since he is in the UFC now I'm going to say Jake Shields!:thumbsdown:


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Voting GSP. 

Fitch is CONSTANTLY throwing elbows and short shots unless he's trying to improve his position. He also consistenly tries to submit people.

Kos isn't so LnP anymore, but when he does it's horrible.

Sherk comes a very close second to GSP, but only gets second because I only have to watch 3 rounds or less of it and his wrestling isn't nearly as dominant as it used to be.

GSP keeps his head dead and pitter pats to decisions unless someone gives him his arm on a platter. Even then he won't commit. That, to me, is annoying as all hell.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

It's possible that GSP is scared of the standup after what happened with Serra!


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> It's possible that GSP is scared of the standup after what happened with Serra!


Doubtful, if you had such a huge advantage over everyone that stood across from you and using that advantage almost guaranteed they couldn't land a lucky bomb and finish the fight why would you not use it? Any jackass can land a flush shot on the jaw in the middle of an exchange not many can sweep or finish GSP on the ground.


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## thrshr01 (Dec 30, 2007)

Reading all these posts in this thread is giving me a headache. Does anyone here know what LnP is? Just because they take their opponents down and keep top control does not mean they LnP. There's so many Fitch and GSP hate here it's preposterous. These 2 guys are always trying to do damage whether they are in or out of the guard. Just because they are on top does not mean they LnP. If they LnP, their fights would have been stood more often. 

I can understand people having preference over the stand up game, but this is MMA and learn to like (love) the WHOLE game. Grappling/wrestling/ground game is just as integral and exciting if you know what you are watching.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

thrshr01 said:


> Reading all these posts in this thread is giving me a headache. Does anyone here know what LnP is? Just because they take their opponents down and keep top control does not mean they LnP. There's so many Fitch and GSP hate here it's preposterous. These 2 guys are always trying to do damage whether they are in or out of the guard. Just because they are on top does not mean they LnP. If they LnP, their fights would have been stood more often.
> 
> I can understand people having preference over the stand up game, but this is MMA and learn to like (love) the WHOLE game. Grappling/wrestling/ground game is just as integral and exciting if you know what you are watching.


People think if you're not standing up in a guys guard and leaping into the air to land a less than accurate and reckless punch you're LnPing.....you're wasting your keystrokes.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

thrshr01 said:


> Reading all these posts in this thread is giving me a headache. Does anyone here know what LnP is? Just because they take their opponents down and keep top control does not mean they LnP. There's so many Fitch and GSP hate here it's preposterous. These 2 guys are always trying to do damage whether they are in or out of the guard. Just because they are on top does not mean they LnP. If they LnP, their fights would have been stood more often.
> 
> I can understand people having preference over the stand up game, but this is MMA and learn to like (love) the WHOLE game. Grappling/wrestling/ground game is just as integral and exciting if you know what you are watching.


The entire point behind LnP is that you do just enough to NOT get stood up


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## thrshr01 (Dec 30, 2007)

Life B Ez said:


> People think if you're not standing up in a guys guard and leaping into the air to land a less than accurate and reckless punch you're LnPing.....you're wasting your keystrokes.


Sad but you're right. I'm surprised you posted on this thread with Fitch as #3 in your sig. You have to be biased :sarcastic12:



TraMaI said:


> The entire point behind LnP is that you do just enough to NOT get stood up


I get that. But to say that GSP LnP's is a bit of a stretch. I've never seen anyone do the amount of damage to BJ, Jon, and Thiago the same way GSP did in their matches. The last outing he had with Hardy was dissapointing but that is one among the many dominant and active fights he has had.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

He didn't do that much to Thiago. Most of the damage done to Jon was done standing, as well. BJ part is true, though. I just think he's steadily going down the path of an LnP artist.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

thrshr01 said:


> Sad but you're right. I'm surprised you posted on this thread with Fitch as #3 in your sig. You have to be biased :sarcastic12:


Yeah that's not favorite fighters....but good job reading.




> I get that. But to say that GSP LnP's is a bit of a stretch. I've never seen anyone do the amount of damage to BJ, Jon, and Thiago the same way GSP did in their matches. The last outing he had with Hardy was dissapointing but that is one among the many dominant and active fights he has had.


Jon got his face beat in standing. Thiago wasn't that smashed and GSP did work BJ but that was one of the few fights he actually GnPed effectively. 

The fight against Hardy was not disappointing.....it was a grappling match. Most of the rolls and escapes and set ups are more subtle then just posturing and punching a guy in the face. God I hate when people that don't understand the ground game say they hate the ground game.......

I have never eaten steak....but I hate it and I anyone who likes and eats steak is retarded and gay and should just eat chicken.

That is basically what you're saying except I replaced grappling with steak and striking with chicken, in case you don't follow and wonder why I'm talking about food.


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

thrshr01 said:


> Reading all these posts in this thread is giving me a headache. Does anyone here know what LnP is? Just because they take their opponents down and keep top control does not mean they LnP. There's so many Fitch and GSP hate here it's preposterous. These 2 guys are always trying to do damage whether they are in or out of the guard. Just because they are on top does not mean they LnP. If they LnP, their fights would have been stood more often.
> 
> I can understand people having preference over the stand up game, but this is MMA and learn to like (love) the WHOLE game. Grappling/wrestling/ground game is just as integral and exciting if you know what you are watching.


They don't do damge per se, moreso do enough damage to avoid stand-ups. GSP's style is essentially elite lay and pray, in that he can keep top control while passing, throw in on occasional safe sub that never had a chance, and generally grind his way to victory.

Fitch usually likes to keep one position as long as possible with a ton of defectiveness strikes and hopeless safe subs. He's more boring than GSP because he does a lot less.



Life B Ez said:


> *Yeah that's not favorite fighters....but good job reading.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good job comprehending sarcasm.


Also, good job making ****ing sense.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

TLC said:


> Good job comprehending sarcasm.
> 
> 
> Also, good job making ****ing sense.


I wouldn't think you'd understand what I was trying to explain to you.....but okay. For the sake of not breaking this thread down into an argument. I'll move along.


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

Because you compared eating a food you've never tried before to watching MMA.

Oh wait that's perfect logic, what was I thinking. (sarcasm)


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

Fitch is king, but GSP set's the standard, he is the master - Koschek even said he wacthed GSP tapes before his last fight.

After his TKO from Serra, he changed. Next fight was Koscheck.

He had a gameplan going against Koscheck in their first fight, I would suggest you go watch that - and it worked, that's been his blue-print since , it's his bread and butter. He wins rounds by maintaining control, try to finish and pass if he can. finish if he sees an opportunity, but maintain control above all, win the round, depend on his cardio outlasting his opponents.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Mr Wonderful


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

TLC said:


> Because you compared eating a food you've never tried before to watching MMA.
> 
> Oh wait that's perfect logic, what was I thinking. (sarcasm)


Dear lord....you really didn't get it at all. It was a metaphor for people that don't understand the ground game.....which is why I told what was representing what at the end of the post. Did you notice that I put "in case you don't follow and wonder why I'm talking about food" I seen this coming I guess.


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Mr Wonderful


What?!?


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## andromeda_68 (Jul 2, 2009)

diablo5597 said:


> GSP is very busy on top.


.....that's what she said?


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

andromeda_68 said:


> .....that's what she said?


haha the amount of opportunity's to say that in this thread, it was hard for me to resist. i guess we both have the same silly humor lol.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

andromeda_68 said:


> .....that's what she said?


Heh heh. I'd rep you again if I could. 

And yes, I did.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Does GSP even have a girlfriend?


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

Nah, I think GSP is gay to be honest.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I've heard about that before but he hasn't said anything to go either way, and like most men I'm going to presume he is strait!:confused05:


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## KEYZER-SOZE (Jul 31, 2010)

john fitch with out a doubt, i have more fun watching paint dry


TLC said:


> Nah, I think GSP is gay to be honest.


dude i bet you gsp scores more chicks than clay aiken (kidding):thumb02: dude probably is like arlovski and just bangs european supermodels when hes not training


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

TLC said:


> Nah, I think GSP is gay to be honest.


Yeah gay fer sure...










Wait......ummm yeah....











But for reals, he was dating Mandy Moore for a little while and some chick from Zaire.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

Looking at the poll Jon Fitch wins another unanimous decision. Shock.


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## Guymay (Jul 6, 2009)

pipe said:


> Looking at the poll Jon Fitch wins another unanimous decision. Shock.


well played sir


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

GSP is not a LnP fighter at all. Yes he has dominant takedowns but he also has amazing top control and outstanding grappling. GSP destroyed Alves for 5 rounds even though he injured himself during the fight. Alves' face was very swollen by the end of the fight. He beat the crap out of BJ Penn to the point where Penn's corner stopped the fight. I think that everyone here knows what he did to Jon Fitch. He demolished Matt Serra in their second meeting and he subbed Matt Hughes before that. He finished Sherk and Trigg when he fought them as well.

The guy has 13 finishes and 7 decisions. That hardly constitutes LnP.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

I think Jon Fitch!
ANd i don't get why GSP is in this poll anyway!
I am a fan and i admit in his fight against Hardy he wasn't that aggresive with his GnP, maybe because he was concentrating more on his BJJ.
But other than that, how can people call his GnP, LnP??!!
He began using more wrestling in his fights after losing to Serra.
And just look at his fights after that fight:
- Koscheck - a fight against 2 excellent wrestlers
- Hughes - submit it him
- Serra 2 - total domination, excellent GnP
- Fitch - another fight against an excellent wrestler. Total domination, very nice GnP
- BJ - total domination, very nice GnP
- Alves - total domination, good GnP
- Hardy - total domination, mediocre GnP

So i don't get it!


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

limba said:


> I think Jon Fitch!
> ANd i don't get why GSP is in this poll anyway!
> I am a fan and i admit in his fight against Hardy he wasn't that aggresive with his GnP, maybe because he was concentrating more on his BJJ.
> But other than that, how can people call his GnP, LnP??!!
> ...


There's a middle ground between LnP and GnP. Wrestler-types like old Hughes, old Mark Coleman, BJ, Bones, Brock I think vicious GnP. 

Fitch is basically a less athletic version of GSP. GSP hits harder, but really not that hard enough to finish most of the WW elite. 

He wants to take you down and control you above all - as opposed to end the fight quickly and with fury, takedowns and crushing beatdowns.. like the fighters mentioned above. 

If a guy like BJ Penn is GnP-ing a fighter, he goes unconcious or his face falls off. Bones ATM in his young career as he ascends to LHW championship is demonstating GnP at it's finest wreckless fury, with destructive (bone breaking) power - No one wants to fight him though - poor Bones.

It wins them fights, Fitch and GSP will both probably be top 2 for most rounds won in the UFC when their time is done, most UD victories, most rounds total, longest time spent inside the octagon - GSP and Fitch will be #1 and #2 for all these records. Throw Okami in that mix as well, he's still a relatively young veteran and has improved a bit as a wrestler.


***

Sadly, the only really promising prospect coming up is a really just big strong WW (Hathaway), whose bread and butter is wrestling, dominating with size/power and winning decisions.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

HitOrGetHit said:


> GSP is not a LnP fighter at all. Yes he has dominant takedowns but he also has amazing top control and outstanding grappling. GSP destroyed Alves for 5 rounds even though he injured himself during the fight. Alves' face was very swollen by the end of the fight. He beat the crap out of BJ Penn to the point where Penn's corner stopped the fight. I think that everyone here knows what he did to Jon Fitch. He demolished Matt Serra in their second meeting and he subbed Matt Hughes before that. He finished Sherk and Trigg when he fought them as well.
> 
> The guy has 13 finishes and 7 decisions. That hardly constitutes LnP.


For the purposes of this poll and thread, LnP seems to mean "any ground fighting wherein we're not entertained" rather than Tra's more accurate definition of "just doing enough not to get stood back up."


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

swpthleg said:


> For the purposes of this poll and thread, LnP seems to mean "any ground fighting wherein we're not entertained" rather than Tra's more accurate definition of "just doing enough not to get stood back up."


I agree. I think that the only reason that GSP and Fitch are considered "boring" is because they choose to grapple more than GnP.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I agree. I think that the only reason that GSP and Fitch are considered "boring" is because they choose to grapple more than GnP.


Well, it´s supposed to be a fight, so you are supposed to give some punishment away, imo.
I blame it on the judges though, if they wouldn´t award wins for performing on top this wouldn´t even be an issue.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

LOL. 


GSP has _one_ fight where he tries submissions over GnP, and the fight before that he suffered a serious injury and STILL beat up the #1 contender for 2 more rounds, and he is a LnPer?

I guess you really are only judged by your most recent fights. But I don't think half of the people in this thread realize how tough some opponents are.

When I see GSP fight, I see guys getting their heads blasted against the canvas several times a round, and he also pushes the pace towards the end of every round. I must be blind. 

Fitch doesn't LnP, but he certainly holds positions and pitter patters the most. I don't find him boring usually, because he mixes it up quite well. But his status as #1 in this category is undisputable, just by looking at his record alone. His fight videos are where you will find the proof. I do not hate on him for it, but I piss on anyone who objectively looks at the situation and calls GSP #1


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## FLyMiSeZz (May 10, 2010)

where are some of you people getting your answers??? GSP is so not a l-n-p fighter. Not even in his last fight. GSP has repeatedly tried to submit Hardy but Hardy is one tough kid and would not tap. Jon Jones???? Did you not watch his last fight?? Jones on top and finished his opponent with vicious elbows. Guida??? Guida always stays active when he is on top. Silva??? Silva likes to strike. When he is on the ground he's ususally the one on he bottom so he can't be a l-n-p. But he will submit from bottom. Fitch?? YESSSS....lol


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## MMAnWEED (Aug 8, 2010)

FLyMiSeZz said:


> where are some of you people getting your answers??? GSP is so not a l-n-p fighter. Not even in his last fight. GSP has repeatedly tried to submit Hardy but Hardy is one tough kid and would not tap. Jon Jones???? Did you not watch his last fight?? Jones on top and finished his opponent with vicious elbows. Guida??? Guida always stays active when he is on top. Silva??? Silva likes to strike. When he is on the ground he's ususally the one on he bottom so he can't be a l-n-p. But he will submit from bottom. Fitch?? YESSSS....lol


I agree. Its absurd to call GSP a l-n-p fighter. He, much like Chael, is always moving and doing damage. Theres a reason the ref rarely if ever stands him up. Hes a black belt in Jiu Jitsu and is always looking for a submission. When youre as good as a wrestler as GSP its silly for you not to utilize it to your advantage without just laying ontop of people much like FITCH does.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Regardless of where you stand GSp is def a different fighter now than before he got cleanned by Serra......Period. 


It changed his style and the way he gameplans fights.....there is no debating that....


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

swpthleg said:


> For the purposes of this poll and thread, LnP seems to mean "any ground fighting wherein we're not entertained" rather than Tra's more accurate definition of "just doing enough not to get stood back up."


Pretty sure a lot of people think unless you're trying to punch the guys skull through the mat you're LnPing. So basically unless you are throwing punches, you're not working and boring.....:sarcastic12:


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Regardless of where you stand GSp is def a different fighter now than before he got cleanned by Serra......Period.
> 
> 
> It changed his style and the way he gameplans fights.....there is no debating that....


Yup, and he hasn't been outstruck since. He's actually tooled very good strikers including BJ and a prime Alves standing up because of his new gameplan.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

SJ said:


> Yup, and he hasn't been outstruck since. He's actually tooled very good strikers including BJ and a prime Alves standing up because of his new gameplan.


 
BJ....meh....Alves I agree and said he would do that, Georges has the reach advantage and it paid off......dunno if you forgot but its not like he didnt try his "safe plan" against Alves...he took him down 11 times in that fight so, I woldnt go out and say he outstruck him, but in the very brief exchanges they had Georges certainly got the better.....he spent alot of the time in BJ's guard as well in that fight so clearly......the new "safe" gameplan is what he is sticking with....

There is a reason he is 2nd to Fitch in this poll....


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

AmdM said:


> Well, it´s supposed to be a fight, so you are supposed to give some punishment away, imo.
> I blame it on the judges though, if they wouldn´t award wins for performing on top this wouldn´t even be an issue.


Yes but MMA fighting is not just about punching someone in the face. Actively working on the ground and grappling is fighting. GSP is constantly working and grappling with his opponent. He does much more than the bare minimum.



coldcall420 said:


> Regardless of where you stand GSp is def a different fighter now than before he got cleanned by Serra......Period.
> 
> It changed his style and the way he gameplans fights.....there is no debating that....


He did change. But it isn't in a bad way. He now utilizes what he does best in his wrestling and nobody can blame him for that. He has good striking, but his wrestling and grappling is what he is best at. It makes sense for him to use it most. 



coldcall420 said:


> BJ....meh....Alves I agree and said he would do that, Georges has the reach advantage and it paid off......dunno if you forgot but its not like he didnt try his "safe plan" against Alves...he took him down 11 times in that fight so, I woldnt go out and say he outstruck him, but in the very brief exchanges they had Georges certainly got the better.....he spent alot of the time in BJ's guard as well in that fight so clearly......the new "safe" gameplan is what he is sticking with....
> 
> There is a reason he is 2nd to Fitch in this poll....


It only seems "safe" because nobody can beat him at it. Like I said previously, he is a much better grappler than striker, so that is why he wrestles.

He and Fitch are getting so many votes because grappling is not as exciting as striking and GnP to most people.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

SJ said:


> Yup, and he hasn't been outstruck since. He's actually tooled very good strikers including BJ and a prime Alves standing up because of his new gameplan.


He hasn't exactly spent much time standing with anyone since Serra. Sure he beat up Fitch, who doesn't have amazing stand up. But he has used mostly wrestling, which I don't fault him for, just saying we really haven't seen him show off any insane stand up since. And by the time he stood with BJ, BJ couldn't hardly find his corner haha.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

I get that, but the point is, he hasn't been outstruck since.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

SJ said:


> I get that, but the point is, he hasn't been outstruck since.


That is true but it's kind of like saying Chuck neve got out grappled in his prime...haha


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> He hasn't exactly spent much time standing with anyone since Serra. Sure he beat up Fitch, who doesn't have amazing stand up. But he has used mostly wrestling, which I don't fault him for, just saying we really haven't seen him show off any insane stand up since. And by the time he stood with BJ, BJ couldn't hardly find his corner haha.





Life B Ez said:


> That is true but it's kind of like saying Chuck neve got out grappled in his prime...haha


Yes but the only reason GSP hasn't been outstruck since, is because nobody is good enough to keep the fight standing just like fighters rarely ever got Liddell to the ground.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

HitOrGetHit said:


> Yes but the only reason GSP hasn't been outstruck since, is because nobody is good enough to keep the fight standing just like fighters rarely ever got Liddell to the ground.


I'm not disputing that at all, I say the same thing when people bitch about Jon Fitch putting guys on the ground. I was just saying it's kind of tipping the scale a little to say no one has outstruck him because no one has had the chance.


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

It pains me to say it because I am a fan..but Jon Fitch for sure. It was a tough choice between him and Sherk.

Fighters like GSP or Kos take guys down but they stay BUSY. 

When GSP took BJ down in their second fight it was a pretty constant face pounding. 

Same with Kos' fight against Lytle. 

Fitch will take you down hold you down. I've never seen him do any type of significant damage from top position.


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