# ***OFFICIAL*** Jon Jones vs. Daniel Cormier Thread



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

*Light Heavyweight bout: 205 pounds*
*Main event - Five round fight for the UFC Light Heavyweight Title*















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## MK. (Dec 16, 2012)

Jones bone done, wrecked by the Cormier.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Such an intriguing fight, if Cormier succumbs to Jones' usual tricks like kicking knee caps, sticking fingers out etc, I will be highly disappointed.

Daniel has all the attributes to be Jon's kryptonite, he's definitely worth a bet. Super excited for this.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

Jones by TKO to the eyes.


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## meelad92 (Aug 29, 2009)

Tough fight to call. I think Jones takes it, but I'm rooting for DC.


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## marky420 (Oct 26, 2012)

Those man boobs on DC look nasty. 

Vegas needs to open an over/under for eyepokes in every Jones fight.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

And new......


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## Gustafsson Fan (Apr 3, 2012)

I have voted for a draw. I see either Jones winnning it by UD or D.C winning on knockout. I do not want to call the winner because it all depends on if the referee will allow Jones to do his ususal illegal moves or not.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

I dont see anyway Cormier should win this fight but he could no doubt. I think Jones presents a lot of difficulty's for him. 

I have a lot of questions,

JBJ's footwork is of some importance in this fight, Jones has the ability to use angles and fight at distance. I have questions about how DC is going to manage range effectively. 

Jones was surprised by Gustafsson, he wont be caught off guard by DC. Im talking about wrestling and TDD. Jones should be able to keep DC at bay with his striking his reach and his footwork but when DC does get an opportunity he still will have to contend with Jones's TDD and I think JBJ will have all his grappling ducks in a row.

I even question his ability to keep Jones down, he wont be able to do to Jones what he did to Hendo the way he did it anyway. 

I just see every advantage going to Jones, that doesn't mean DC has no chance but I dont believe he'll win.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Cormier takes this with pace, superior grappling, power, highly underrated striking and just in general an all around solid skill set. Not to mention that Cormier is pure championship material. His confidence/iron will is very noticeable, he wants that belt and he will fight to get it. Certain people just put off the champion vibe and usually when they do, they get it done.

Jones can obviously win as well, I would not be shocked if he did, but I'd put money on Cormier in this one.


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

No doubt this is the hardest fight for Jones to date. 

DC is an absolute beast. The guy makes every one of his fights look easy. I also see this fight being the toughest for DC to date though. 

If DC can close the distance, get Jones up against the cage and continuously score the takedown then it's Cormier all night. I don't think size will be an issue for DC as he has beat massive HW's effortlessly, but Jones is on a whole different level - he is more athletic, faster, younger, more confident and has more reach than any fighter DC has faced. 

My gut is telling me Jones. He is a freak athlete with an endless arsenal and he finds a way to beat guys at their own game. 


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

By far JBJ's toughest test imo.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

I don't feel this is Jones' toughest fight by far. Gus I believe will/would still go 5 rounds of awesomeness with Jones again. DC will test Jones in a different way than anyone has (wrestling) but we always used to say Jones fights shrimps, and DC is in fact a shrimp. He may have HW experience and more core strength than most anyone at LHW, but he is one of the smaller guys Jones will have fought. 

I think if Jones wins he can make it look fairly easy if DC just cannot get inside. Where I don't think any fight with Gus he could make look easy. 

Gus showed too much to say this is Bones' toughest test for sure. Could end up being, but Gus did too well to easily claim that. Jones was on a gurney after that fight while Gus was walking around.

That is just my opinion.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I think if Jones wins he can make it look fairly easy if DC just cannot get inside.


Yes, it all comes down to whether Cormier can close the distance. His striking looked good so far, but who has he faced¿ Barnett and Mir would probably be the best "technical" strikers he fought, while Jones dominated Rua, Jackson, Machida, Belfort and Teixeira in the striking department, only Gustafsson made it competitive thanks to similar reach which Cormier hasn't.

The way Cormier ragdolled Barnett with his wrestling makes it clear that you can't deny he is a major threat in that area, but Jones is one of the best at keeping the favorable range for him and he has faced the much better strikers. So it's really hard to predict who will prevail. I wouldn't bet any money on this fight.


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## rul3z (Jun 27, 2010)

The END of JBJ by Cormier


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Cormier MIGHT be able to catch Jones off guard with his striking, and MIGHT be able to ragdoll him with wrestling, but I think it's more likely that he gets destroyed on his way in. I don't see Cormier as being particularly elusive. He's right in front of you. Pat Cummins got a few jabs into him in the short fight. I think Jones might just be able to make this his usual destructive fight.


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## CarlosCondit (Jul 16, 2011)

A lot of people are rooting for DC, but the Christmas miracles won't save him on January 3th


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## suspectchin (Apr 29, 2014)

Bones by decision.


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## sucrets (Jul 8, 2007)

Some of you are forgetting that DC can close the distance very fast and very effectively. For a guy with his built he is extremely effective as closing the distance and the best part is that his punches are not just accurate but also powerful.

I want DC to win but this is not the type of fight you can predict. There are just too many ifs involved. While most people would discount it, we could very well see DC knocking out Jones. I'm not predicting it, just saying that's something most would not expect.

Super excited for this fight.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

sucrets said:


> Some of you are forgetting that DC can close the distance very fast and very effectively.


He was able to do so so far ...against slow plodding behemoths, a rookie whose main job was selling fast food at a drive through ten days before the fight and a one-dimensional TRT-less geriatric zombie. We've never seen Cormier fight faster LHW fighters, let alone someone of Jones's caliber who is a master at keeping smaller guys at distance.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

sucrets said:


> Some of you are forgetting that DC can close the distance very fast and very effectively. For a guy with his built he is extremely effective as closing the distance and the best part is that his punches are not just accurate but also powerful.
> 
> I want DC to win but this is not the type of fight you can predict. There are just too many ifs involved. While most people would discount it, we could very well see DC knocking out Jones. I'm not predicting it, just saying that's something most would not expect.
> 
> Super excited for this fight.


Could I not reply "You're forgetting that Jones is fantastic at maintaining distance"?

That's the question of the fight.


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## rodolfo (Jan 28, 2014)

DC retires after losing.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

I think the humble pie will be good for either of these guys, but Cormier to me seems to have a very unwarranted confidence fighting 2 very medicare LHW's. JBJ will actually be his first good LHW, and I believe he's in for a long night. I don't believe he'll dominate the clinch or ground game and will get hit a lot. 

As always, I could be wrong.


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## Pillowhands (Mar 10, 2012)

Jones will win in similar fashion as the Rashad Evans fight.


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## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

Pillowhands said:


> Jones will win in similar fashion as the Rashad Evans fight.


While I think Bones will win, I really don't think he'll be leading with elbows against DC.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Calminian said:


> I think the humble pie will be good for either of these guys, but Cormier to me seems to have a very unwarranted confidence fighting 2 very medicare LHW's. JBJ will actually be his first good LHW, and I believe he's in for a long night. I don't believe he'll dominate the clinch or ground game and will get hit a lot.
> 
> As always, I could be wrong.


In Cormier's defense, he did destroy multiple solid HWs, and Hendo definitely is not mediocre. The fight will be awesome and highly unlikely it will be one-sided for either guy. Both have elite skillsets and both do not want to lose to the other after all that smacktalk. I have Cormier by decision.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

I think DC will win. I don't recall anybody showing that much will and confidence against Jones. He has the tools and the strength to be the next UFC LHW Champion..


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## Warning (Nov 18, 2009)

I have to go with the Olympian Cormier :thumbsup:


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

Not saying I'm thinking this as well, there is always a chance though, but I'm surprised nobody is discussing this.

This is easily the most anticipated fight if not ever, definitely since Sonnen-Silva, where you think both fighters will and should put it on the line, go 100% and win as dominantly as possible, what would later turn out as a FOTY candidate... BUT, what if it turns out as Evans-Rampage? Everyone thought it was going to be sick, but later on it turned out to be a pretty caucious fight and everyone was dissapoited.

Since a lot is on the line for both guys, and a lot to lose for each, there definitely is a possibility that it could turn out as a close and pretty cautious and not as entertaining decision.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Rygu said:


> In Cormier's defense, he did destroy multiple solid HWs, and Hendo definitely is not mediocre.


Post TRT Hendo is below mediocre. He has no chance against most of the LHW's in the division, which is exactly why he retired. Had TRT not been banned, he'd still be headlining. 

And HW bouts are irrelevant. They are completely different and much slower animals. 

That said, I've got Jones by total domination and then a late round KO. Cormier's going to be a very humble dude, and Jones as arrogant as ever.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Calminian said:


> Post TRT Hendo is below mediocre. He has no chance against most of the LHW's in the division, which is exactly why he retired. Had TRT not been banned, he'd still be headlining.
> 
> And HW bouts are irrelevant. They are completely different and much slower animals.
> 
> That said, I've got Jones by total domination and then a late round KO. Cormier's going to be a very humble dude, and Jones as arrogant as ever.


Jones by KO? Really?

I think DC takes a few side-kicks to the knee and becomes tentative like just about every other fighter who steps in with Jones without having the reach to match, but a KO is highly unlikely.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Calminian said:


> Post TRT Hendo is below mediocre. He has no chance against most of the LHW's in the division, which is exactly why he retired. Had TRT not been banned, he'd still be headlining.
> 
> And HW bouts are irrelevant. They are completely different and much slower animals.
> 
> That said, I've got Jones by total domination and then a late round KO. Cormier's going to be a very humble dude, and Jones as arrogant as ever.


Dan ain't retired bro. He's fighting Gegard at the end of January.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> Dan ain't retired bro. He's fighting Gegard at the end of January.


That I didn't know, but it's unfortunate. He's got nothing for GM. He needs to retire as does Belort and all the others.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Belfort, currently fighting for the title looking the best he's ever looked in his entire career (in skill. TRT is solid for athleticism but at the end of the day the techniques Belfort is learning and improving is down to him).....should retire?


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Belfort, currently fighting for the title looking the best he's ever looked in his entire career (in skill. TRT is solid for athleticism but at the end of the day the techniques Belfort is learning and improving is down to him).....should retire?


It remains to be seen what post-TRT Belfort will look like in the octagon. And I think most of us expect him to get smashed like a matchstick replica of Yankee stadium being sat on by Roseanne Barr. So using him as an example of a successful post-TRT career is both factually suspect and disingenuous.

And Dan has looked awful ever since he went off TRT. He's an easy payday for Gegard and we all know it.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Sports_Nerd said:


> It remains to be seen what post-TRT Belfort will look like in the octagon. And I think most of us expect him to get smashed like a matchstick replica of Yankee stadium being sat on by Roseanne Barr. So using him as an example of a successful post-TRT career is both factually suspect and disingenuous.
> 
> And Dan has looked awful ever since he went off TRT. He's an easy payday for Gegard and we all know it.


Surely using him as an example of an unsuccessful post-TRT career is also both factually suspect and disingenuous then?

Regardless of whether or not Belfort looks good against Weidman, there is in no way a reasonable call for him to retire. I expect Weidman to brutalize Belfort on the ground, but after that Belfort can be competitive against loads of fighters in the division. TRT isn't some incredible boost, and Dan Henderson is an example of that. Belfort IS coming off of wins over Bisping and Rockhold by KO, two guys who are at the tip of the division.

Dan looked awful before he went off TRT. Dan Henderson has been a right hand for a fairly long time now, certainly since he came back to UFC. He's still a name though, so he keeps being given top contenders. Dan Henderson imo should be fighting UFC newcomers, not guys like Gegard Mousasi who are title contenders.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Belfort, currently fighting for the title looking the best he's ever looked in his entire career (in skill. TRT is solid for athleticism but at the end of the day the techniques Belfort is learning and improving is down to him).....should retire?


I think you're extremely naive.



ClydebankBlitz said:


> ....Regardless of whether or not Belfort looks good against Weidman, there is in no way a reasonable call for him to retire. I expect Weidman to brutalize Belfort on the ground, but.......


And you're already backpedaling on your post-TRT poster boy example.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

I think that the Jones hate clouds judgment. DC's striking has not impressed me enough to think he can hang with Jones at all. I cant really get behind his HW wins although they are solid wins, I dont think you can correlate anyone he's fought with JBJ.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

DC hate is worse than Jones hate, innit?


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

I think looking at DC's past opponents is not looking enough. The guy is really fkin good at fighting, with a ridiculous wrestling base. Amazingly at his age, he has the fitness, athleticism and intelligence to go with it.

Forget DC's record and watch the fights, he poses problems for Jon.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Calminian said:


> Post TRT Hendo is below mediocre. He has no chance against most of the LHW's in the division, which is exactly why he retired. Had TRT not been banned, he'd still be headlining.
> 
> And HW bouts are irrelevant. They are completely different and much slower animals.
> 
> That said, I've got Jones by total domination and then a late round KO. Cormier's going to be a very humble dude, and Jones as arrogant as ever.


Good for you. The second you claimed that destroying solid HWs is irrelevant and saying Hendo is below mediocre you basically just told MMAF that you know absolutely nothing about MMA, and that your opinion should be as respected as someone who doesn't even know what MMA stands for.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Surely using him as an example of an unsuccessful post-TRT career is also both factually suspect and disingenuous then?
> 
> Regardless of whether or not Belfort looks good against Weidman, there is in no way a reasonable call for him to retire. I expect Weidman to brutalize Belfort on the ground, but after that Belfort can be competitive against loads of fighters in the division. TRT isn't some incredible boost, and Dan Henderson is an example of that. Belfort IS coming off of wins over Bisping and Rockhold by KO, two guys who are at the tip of the division.
> 
> Dan looked awful before he went off TRT. Dan Henderson has been a right hand for a fairly long time now, certainly since he came back to UFC. He's still a name though, so he keeps being given top contenders. Dan Henderson imo should be fighting UFC newcomers, not guys like Gegard Mousasi who are title contenders.


The idea that Belfort should retire is premature, simply because he hasn't fought off TRT. But two fights from now I think it's likely that we look back and say to ourselves "Man, he could've avoided those brutal beatings if he had just retired when they banned TRT."

A title shot's a title shot, though. You don't become a top athlete if you're the sort of person who walks away from those. I would've preferred they give someone coming off the treatment a check up fight before offering them the shot, but Vitor isn't getting any younger, and there aren't that many top guys left for him to fight anyway.

As for Henderson, it's true e hadn't looked like white Anderson Silva in there before going off TRT, but he's looked much worse since coming off it.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Sports_Nerd said:


> The idea that Belfort should retire is premature, simply because he hasn't fought off TRT. But two fights from now I think it's likely that we look back and say to ourselves "Man, he could've avoided those brutal beatings if he had just retired when they banned TRT."
> 
> A title shot's a title shot, though. You don't become a top athlete if you're the sort of person who walks away from those. I would've preferred they give someone coming off the treatment a check up fight before offering them the shot, but Vitor isn't getting any younger, and there aren't that many top guys left for him to fight anyway.
> 
> *As for Henderson, it's true e hadn't looked like white Anderson Silva in there before going off TRT, but he's looked much worse since coming off it.*


He was on it for the second Shogun fight, which he was losing handily, the only fight since was against DC so he was losing that either way.

I find it easier to ignore the TRT thing, unfortunately. The supposed success/regression it defines coincides too closely with the user's age and fight years to make it a notable factor.

I hate to say that because legal as it was, I think it was a huge safety net for some fighters.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

SM33 said:


> He was on it for the second Shogun fight, which he was losing handily, the only fight since was against DC so he was losing that either way.
> 
> I find it easier to ignore the TRT thing, unfortunately. The supposed success/regression it defines coincides too closely with the user's age and fight years to make it a notable factor.
> 
> I hate to say that because legal as it was, I think it was a huge safety net for some fighters.


You would then admit that Henderson was not a top LHW when he fought Cormier either way. But I think most understand, TRT is the only thing that kept him alive during the Shogun beatdown. 

On TRT Henderson is still middle of the road LHW. Off TRT he's an easy fight for all. I feel horrible saying that as a fan, but it's true. I have not problem with TRT either, I wish it was still legal.


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## sucrets (Jul 8, 2007)

DC is not good enough for Jones... 
Belfort should retire...

What parallel universe do you people come from?


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Calminian said:


> I think you're extremely naive.
> 
> 
> 
> And you're already backpedaling on your post-TRT poster boy example.


No I'm not. I don't and never thought Belfort would have a big chance of beating Weidman. He doesn't have the takedown defence and essentially only has a punchers shot. This has absolutely nothing to do with TRT.



Sports_Nerd said:


> The idea that Belfort should retire is premature, simply because he hasn't fought off TRT. But two fights from now I think it's likely that we look back and say to ourselves "Man, he could've avoided those brutal beatings if he had just retired when they banned TRT."
> 
> A title shot's a title shot, though. You don't become a top athlete if you're the sort of person who walks away from those. I would've preferred they give someone coming off the treatment a check up fight before offering them the shot, but Vitor isn't getting any younger, and there aren't that many top guys left for him to fight anyway.
> 
> As for Henderson, it's true e hadn't looked like white Anderson Silva in there before going off TRT, but he's looked much worse since coming off it.


I think people are just going to say that anyways. I reckon Weidman is going to hurt him BAD in their fight and people are just going to say TRT, when realistically Belfort's chances don't improve what so ever with TRT. After that, it's likely that UFC will want to try and feed Belfort to the wolves. Maybe Jacare or something. Essentially Belfort will not fight for the title again, is quite old and the whole TRT thing made him look bad. I DO think he might be in for a rough two fights but I think people are going to say TRT is the reason regardless of what happens. If Belfort was to fight Bisping in his next fight, I think it'd go the same as the first time.

Who's he fought since coming off of it though? Apologies if my timeline is off but I think it's only his last two? Shogun in the second fight was really just Shogun in the first fight firing on on cylinders. It's not like Dan was using solid head movement in the first fight, Shogun just wasn't capitalizing. In this one, Shogun was just accurate and sharp, but none the less the H Bomb took his head off.
Daniel Cormier, better wrestler than Dan ever was, also in the prime of his career and according to who you ask, one of the greatest LHW talents of all time. Also a natural heavyweight.

Hendo's not going to look any better against Mousasi either. Who was he fighting before that though? KOed by Beflfot easily, beat by Rashad on his terrible streak, couldn't really land a punch on Machida. Looked very old in the epic Shogun 1 fight...It's funny too. I remember saying that Hendo defo deserved the UFC title shot after beating Fedor, but the second he stepped back in the UFC it's like he ages 50 years on the stop. Hendo has been a right hand ever since he returned, nothing more nothing less. He's currently one of the least talented guys on the entire roster, which is why it's shocking that he's fighting Mousasi.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Jones chances just got slimmer.


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## King Daisuke (Mar 25, 2013)




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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Rygu said:


> Good for you. The second you claimed that destroying solid HWs is irrelevant and saying Hendo is below mediocre you basically just told MMAF that you know absolutely nothing about MMA, and that your opinion should be as respected as someone who doesn't even know what MMA stands for.


And you've just established yourself as someone who doesn't know what TRT is (I personally don't have time to explain it to you), nor Henderson's recent fighting history, nor the history of fighters moving from HW to LHW and back and how success at HW in no way indicates success and LHW. I'd say you have the greater deficit.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> ....Hendo has been a right hand ever since he returned, nothing more nothing less. He's currently one of the least talented guys on the entire roster, which is why it's shocking that he's fighting Mousasi.


And when he fought Cormier he was one of the least talented on the roster fresh off TRT. It's what I've been trying to say. Now if you don't think TRT is a factor, fine, but both Belfort and Hendo would disagree with you. 

That said, DC looks great against very slow strikers he can outwrestle like the fighters he encountered at HW. Now he's fighting one of the best and fastest strikers in MMA who may be able to outwrestle him, or at minimum neutralize his wrestling. I think that's a recipe for a lopsided match.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

slapshot said:


> I think that the Jones hate clouds judgment. DC's striking has not impressed me enough to think he can hang with Jones at all. I cant really get behind his HW wins although they are solid wins, I dont think you can correlate anyone he's fought with JBJ.


I think DC's best opponent has actually been Roy Nelson. Roy is a solid HW with great wrestling and power, but hardly close to anything like Jones. I suppose you could argue Bigfoot was the more impressive of the 2 (who just got destroyed by AA, who's coming off a lost to a middle pack LHW), but really those are the highlights of his career. Are either of those close to JBJ's world? Have either of those prepared him for Jones?


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Calminian said:


> I think DC's best opponent has actually been Roy Nelson. Roy is a solid HW with great wrestling and power, but hardly close to anything like Jones. I suppose you could argue Bigfoot was the more impressive of the 2 (who just got destroyed by AA, who's coming off a lost to a middle pack LHW), but really those are the highlights of his career. Are either of those close to JBJ's world? Have either of those prepared him for Jones?


Anthony Johnson, a guy who will be fighting in a title eliminator in his next bout, with dominant wins over Phil Davis and Rogerio Nogueira, is a middle of the pack LHW?


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

TanyaJade said:


> Anthony Johnson, a guy who will be fighting in a title eliminator in his next bout, with dominant wins over Phil Davis and Rogerio Nogueira, is a middle of the pack LHW?


yeah, I guess I'm not yet on the AJ train yet. LHW appears to be his best weight class, but I'm not convinced he's in the same league with Tex, Gus and Jones. I see these guys as leaps ahead of him. I don't consider l'nog a top LHW. The Phil Davis win is notable though, so I could be wrong. We'll find out soon.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Cormier.

every fiber in my body says so.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

This fight has me hyped.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I've wanted DC to be the man that beats jones since he first mentioned he was considering dropping to LHW. I still want it. But the closer the fight gets the less confidence I have. As I said before his only real advantage is his expert use of a lower center of gravity. I think he might be fast enough to hit jones if he can get to him. Jones has a 12 inch reach advantage. In technical terms that is ****ing humongous. I can't think of any big fight with that much difference. It's ridiculous in any fight but give that much advantage to Jon Jones and it's just crazy. DC will have to be the toughest man in MMA just to lay a hand on him.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

oldfan said:


> I've wanted DC to be the man that beats jones since he first mentioned he was considering dropping to LHW. I still want it. But the closer the fight gets the less confidence I have. As I said before his only real advantage is his expert use of a lower center of gravity. I think he might be fast enough to hit jones if he can get to him. Jones has a 12 inch reach advantage. In technical terms that is ****ing humongous. I can't think of any big fight with that much difference. It's ridiculous in any fight but give that much advantage to Jon Jones and it's just crazy. DC will have to be the toughest man in MMA just to lay a hand on him.


Bigfoot has roughly the same reach as Jones, and Cormier dropped him twice, took him down, and finished the fight all in a single round. That's with Cormier knowing Bigfoot has KO power thus having to be careful. You can bet that he'll be a lot more willing to get in close and put the hurt on Jones, who hasn't showed any legitimate KO power standing up.

Cormier has never lost the stand up in his whole career, while fighting much larger men with much larger reach/power. Now, someone could argue that Jones is faster than the HW's and yes absolutely that is right. However, is that enough to get the better exchanges with Cormier? It will help, sure, but I don't see this as any pure advantage for Jones. I see Cormier getting up in his face and hitting him with powerful, and fast, punches. I honestly don't think Jones will be prepared for his pace/speed/power, he is deceptively fast and has great timing. 

Obviously Jones can win this fight, he's one of the best in the world and an amazing fighter. I just see Cormier coming into this fight with a champion mentality combined with a skill set that can beat Jones anywhere the fight goes.

It is going to be fun to see what happens, regardless of who wins I'm expecting a great fight... I hope I am not disappointed.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Jones has a 2 1/2 inch reach advantage on Bigfoot. But I guess since their speed and technique are so similar it's a fair comparison. 

I would ask Shogun about the power of jones' strikes. how many times has that guy tapped to strikes anyway?

Jones usually finishes with a sub after hurting his opponents with strikes from the other side of the Octagon.

DC can do this but he's going to get the shit beat out of him coming in.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

oldfan said:


> Jones has a 2 1/2 inch reach advantage on Bigfoot. But I guess since their speed and technique are so similar it's a fair comparison.
> 
> I would ask Shogun about the power of jones' strikes. how many times has that guy tapped to strikes anyway?
> 
> ...


Shogun gets hurt by most people these days. He was finished in his last two fights by KO, he was beat to hell by Henderson twice. Hurting Shogun isn't exactly that hard to do. Shogun is literally the only person Jones has ever finished standing up, and again, who doesn't hurt Shogun standing up? That's what Shogun does, he gets beat up.

2.5 inches isn't that much, and I know there is a slight difference which is why I said "roughly the same reach". It's close enough. Cormier has dealt with reach disadvantages his whole career, it's nothing new, and he's easily taken everybody out who has that advantage. Speed is the only thing that is going to be different this time around when it comes to dealing with reach, but Cormier is fast. He's fast and and he has excellent timing. Considering that as I said, he doens't have to worry about the KO nearly as much as he did when fighting at HW as he's dealing with a guy who has a lot less power, he will probably be more willing to take a few hits to get in close and impose his will.

I see this fight going like this - bell starts, Cormier wades in to test his speed/reach, they feel each other out like this a few times, and half way through the first round Cormier is going to get in his range and impose his gameplan. I don't think Cormier is going to give Jones anytime to set up any rhythm, once he has a decent feeling for Jones speed, I see him getting on the inside and doing his business, throwing big shots and tossing jones on his back without much resistance. 

I'd give this a 70/30 chance of winning for Cormier. I just see him having the tools required to beat him, and along with those tools is an iron will type mentality, the guy thinks he is already champion. He reminds of of Weidman a lot, extremely confident, deceptively good skills, and the tools required to fight at an extremely high level. I just don't think Jones is going to be ready for what he will have to face that night.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

M.C said:


> Bigfoot has roughly the same reach as Jones.....


And Bigfoot is probably one of the slowest strikers in all of MMA. He's very strong, but everything is in slomo. Cormier has never faced anything like he's facing Sat.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I think Jones will win this through a rough first round, but when he doesn't wilt and comes right back out DC won't know what to do. Jones kicks and tricks will start to add up. I think he gets a round 4 finish when DC shoots out of desperation and Jones snags a choke and finishes it.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

cdtcpl said:


> I think Jones will win this through a rough first round, but when he doesn't wilt and comes right back out DC won't know what to do. Jones kicks and tricks will start to add up. I think he gets a round 4 finish when DC shoots out of desperation and Jones snags a choke and finishes it.


What makes you think Jones won't wilt? He was fading badly against Gus and just standing there taking punishment in both the third and fourth before he landed an elbow that Gus ducked into.

I think if DC puts it on him in the first and second Jones will be looking worse than against Gus. Brendan Schaub talked about how messed up jones was after the Gus fight, he was shaking and way out of it couldn't answer questions and all kinds of stuff. I don't see him taking another beating like that well.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> What makes you think Jones won't wilt? He was fading badly against Gus and just standing there taking punishment in both the third and fourth before he landed an elbow that Gus ducked into.....


Yeah, but that's because Gus was able to punch him over and over. Cormier will not have the same toolbox.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

I don't like predictions, but I see Cormier just crushing Jones. I think he is the wildest beast Jones faced since he almost lost to Gustafsson and actually possessing more tools and raw power than Gus. I think DC will win decisevely and I wouldn't call it no upset.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I think Jones wins simply because I have betted against Jones against Gustafsson and Teixeira, fights that he won. That and I think he has more tools to win and finish. 

Rooting for DC though. Looking forward to this fight.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Now Bigfoot has striking just as good as JBJ? LOL, Im just saying he may have the reach to be similar but not the skill.

DC's striking isn't poor, he has enough power bla bla but he'll eat strikes from the outside like mad if he cant take JBJ down.

If DC gets on top he may not be able to finish and it might come back to haunt him because I have no such misgivings about Jones. 

I just think enable to win DC has to take a lot of risks and the stats are only a small part of why Jones should win.


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

i think jones will establish his range and timing early an not allow cormier to do his thing.. after that cormier will either go into a defensive shell and look like rashad in there.. or he will adapt and change things up maybe even go for broke and turn it into a real fight..

typically when guys dislike each other this much, they are too prideful to risk getting finished.. so it may end up being a boring fight where cormier pulls a rashad


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Calminian said:


> And Bigfoot is probably one of the slowest strikers in all of MMA. He's very strong, but everything is in slomo. Cormier has never faced anything like he's facing Sat.


I know Jones is faster, I pointed that out in my post. I also said that Cormier is fast himself and has deceptively good timing. I see Cormier having more than enough striking ability to get on the inside and lay his hands on Jones.


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## iksanivica (Mar 3, 2013)

Jones scariest attacks are those high-torque elbows from GnP but Cormiers wrestling should be superior so will Jones be able to beat him up on ground like he did: Shogun, Machida, Vera, Matt Hamil, Rampage... thats how Jones wins the fights : his opponents start to lose confidence after taking elbow bombs from gnp. So if Cormier avoids this for most part of the fight what will happen? 
We have a stand up fight where Jones never showed any knock out power unlike in GnP where it seemed he really destroyed some guys. 
If a guy cant be taken down what happens is what we saw vs Gustafson... but still i think Gustafson has better stand-up then Cormier.

Jones showed great movement to avoid Texeiras onslaught of hooks and overhands which is the style of punching Cormier seems to have so will this happen as well, can Jones beat up Cormier the same way he outpointed Texeira on the feet, it might happen. 

Cormiers weakness id say is not so good GnP its nowhere close to Jones'es malicious elbows.
His punches have power but so does Texeiras. Jones is clever on the feet and might out-point Cormier there and unfortunately thats how i see it going.

Cormier might win some weak gnp but JOnes will outpoint-outsmart him using his creativity, reach and footwork(evasion) in standup and then possibly even take him down.

Cormier should definately watch for that *sneaky elbow from the clinch* that Jones used very effectively against Gustafson and almost any opponent.
Stay away from that DC!

Try to catch him like you did Big foot dont let him evade those punches.
Dont *please *dont let him gnp you in early rounds.

Wehn think of it all Jones does great are elbows from any position include when he is taken down - yes i expect elbows from there as well, if you can solve that somehow you win.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

I've lost track of Cormier knees problems, so, anyone knows if with this delay he got them fixed or is he going to fight with his old busted ones?


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

This fight will be foul galore. Jon will be dirty and DC will either be dirty or just stop fighting and call him out on it, depends on the ref.

I just watched the Teixeira fight again and ref was not consistent, warned Jon early then gave up on it; The way Jones extends his fingers and covers his opponents eyes is fkin blasphemy. Covering eyes isn't illegal but he uses the threat of poking to achieve it. Poking is illegal, and he uses the _threat_ of poking to achieve a LOT of his attacks. YOU CANNOT POKE EYES, DO NOT PRETEND YOU ARE GOING TO.

Honest to god if MMA fighters wore boxing gloves, Jon would have lost by now no doubt. I hope these two keep it clean and fight to win, not to not lose, because there is a lot of pride on the line after this hype.

Keep your fists closed and go get some fans, Jones.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

SM33 said:


> This fight will be foul galore. Jon will be dirty and DC will either be dirty or just stop fighting and call him out on it, depends on the ref.
> 
> I just watched the Teixeira fight again and ref was not consistent, warned Jon early then gave up on it; The way Jones extends his fingers and covers his opponents eyes is fkin blasphemy. Covering eyes isn't illegal but he uses the threat of poking to achieve it. Poking is illegal, and he uses the _threat_ of poking to achieve a LOT of his attacks. YOU CANNOT POKE EYES, DO NOT PRETEND YOU ARE GOING TO.
> 
> ...


Rarely ever do I agree with anything you say but well said sir!


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

_"If I want to take Jones down 100 times I'll take him down 100 times, this is my ocatagon. I'm the man"_ - DC.

That about sums up how I feel this fight will go. He will get in, put his hands on him, and the rest will be history.


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## sucrets (Jul 8, 2007)

The last time I was behind a fighter the way I am with DC was years ago when Silva was fighting Sonnen for the second time.

WAR DC!


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I don't get the DC love, while I think Dc is a phenomenal fighter the truth is I see nothing that he brings to the table that Jones has not ran through already. It's a different bag of the same tools IMO and while I would love to see Jones get humbled the guy is something truly special and is the walking mma cheat code. To lanky to skilled, to unorthodox. Cormier won't have the answer because he just doesn't know what the question is. 


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Toxic said:


> II see nothing that he brings to the table that Jones has not ran through already.


Wrestling¿


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I honestly think if the current LHW title holder eye pokes em, DC will give em an atomic wedgie when he lifts em up and dumps him on his head. I do believe this will be a Randy vs Tito style of fight.

Fatality by atomic wedgie!


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

DC got this, UD. Jones needs to go. There is no way he stays on his feet the whole time against a guy like Cormier. I would be legitimately shocked if he did.

I thought Glover could do it too though, so I'm not gonna be 100% confident picking against Jones again, but Cormier is something special no doubt. He gives the same vibe Jones himself did on his way up, a man with a deep well of inner strength and belief, far above the run of the mill guys. 

I see Cormier dumping Jones over and over for five rounds and feeding him fists from the top and back all night but not quite being able to finish, Jones seems too tough for that.


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## iksanivica (Mar 3, 2013)

Voiceless said:


> Wrestling¿


If he does take him down ok...what then? Cormiers submissions and GnP dont seem as good and i think Jon will elbow him from the back which is still a serious danger.

Its not enough to take someone down you have to club them there, which is what Jon does the best.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Only a few days left.


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## King Daisuke (Mar 25, 2013)

I'm much more excited for the weigh-ins because I'm seriously scared to see what's going to happen in the fight! :laugh:


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## iksanivica (Mar 3, 2013)

haha me too, for the sake of sponsorship deals that are still valid, i hope in weigh-ins jon jones keeps the same reach he will keep in the fight.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

For the record... I have credits and real money on DC. come fight time I'll be screaming and jumping, I'll probably bring my heavy bag in the house and beat the hell out of it...just to help out.

But still....


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

oldfan said:


> For the record... I have credits and real money on DC. come fight time I'll be screaming and jumping, I'll probably bring my heavy bag in the house and beat the hell out of it...just to help out.
> 
> But still....


I need to copy that image, create a t-shirt with it and proudly sport it in public. That is golden! The photoshop of his pot belly, bare feet, is impeccable.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

oldfan said:


> For the record... I have credits and real money on DC. come fight time I'll be screaming and jumping, I'll probably bring my heavy bag in the house and beat the hell out of it...just to help out.
> 
> But still....


rofl this should be UFC 182 poster


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## King Daisuke (Mar 25, 2013)

I'm not even that big of a DC fan, but I know he's capable of beating Jones, and I want to see that smug douchebag lose. If Jones somehow pulls off the (imo) upset and wins this fight...I don't think the universe can take that much cocky douchiness.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)




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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Man, if that shoe landed flush on Jones face, that would be the most amazing moment in the whole history of MMA bar none. :laugh:


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

I feel like this belongs here... Best promo yet!


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Budhisten said:


> I feel like this belongs here... Best promo yet!


Nice find. now look 2 posts up  (or do you still have me on ignore?)

I'm just glad nobody got hurt at the weigh in.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

oldfan said:


>


The creativity in that I give an 11/10. Chappelle's Show was legendary.


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## AlanS (Jun 16, 2009)

I really feel nothing for this fight.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

AlanS said:


> I really feel nothing for this fight.


Different strokes I guess.

This is the biggest fight in a long time for me.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

slapshot said:


> Now Bigfoot has striking just as good as JBJ?....


Yeah, I'd thought I'd heard it all up to that point. :jaw:


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Voiceless said:


> Wrestling¿


So like Chael Sonnen? I get it Cormier is an olympian, well guess what Chael competed internationally, he was close to making the olympics himself. 

You know who else were Olympians? Two of Chaels old training partners Matt Lindland (Silver Medalist) and Dan Henderson. Now looking at those 3 names are you gonna tell me that gap is suddenly that big because Cormier is an olympia and Chael wasn't? The gap is exagerated. Cormier may be a better wrestler than Chael but he is not gonna be on a whole other level.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

oldfan said:


> Nice find. now look 2 posts up  (or do you still have me on ignore?)
> 
> I'm just glad nobody got hurt at the weigh in.


Was DC trying to hide his gut?


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Toxic said:


> So like Chael Sonnen? I get it Cormier is an olympian, well guess what Chael competed internationally, he was close to making the olympics himself.
> 
> You know who else were Olympians? Two of Chaels old training partners Matt Lindland (Silver Medalist) and Dan Henderson. Now looking at those 3 names are you gonna tell me that gap is suddenly that big because Cormier is an olympia and Chael wasn't? The gap is exagerated. Cormier may be a better wrestler than Chael but he is not gonna be on a whole other level.


I don't care whether he is/was an Olympian, I care how he translates his wrestling to MMA and Cormier has shown St. Pierre level of wrestling dominance. I doubted Cormier a long time, but man did he ragdoll Barnett like a little child. His wrestling is more impressive than Velasquez'. And the difference between Sonnen and Cormier is one is a MW that fought at LHW the other a HW that will fight at LHW.

I think it will be decided by whether Jones can keep the distance or not.


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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

Has anybody seen this yet? Man they just keep on going. I think DC is way emotionally involved in this feud. But Jon is involved too he just doesn't like to show emotion. Wish the vid was longer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAyFA3EJKQE


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## cookiefritas (Jun 17, 2011)

Can't wait for this fight. Hopefully in a few years this is what we will begin to see on a consistent basis when it comes to championship fights, two elite athletes with technique duking it out. They are both gifted fighters, hopefully we get to see them go balls to the wall for at least 3 rounds.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Its not a video game, sometimes when two wrestlers fight they cancel each other out. You dont need Olympic wrestling to stop a shot in MMA. 

If DC is reduced to shooting in for singles and doubles from outside the clinch then its going to be a painful night for him. 

You know Tex thought he wanted to dirty box with Jones too. DC is going to want to hold and clinch and wall and stall. 

If he cant get Jones down Id be surprised if he outboxes JBJ to a decision, a big shot for a stoppage .. maybe but I think Jones will win.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

cdtcpl said:


> Was DC trying to hide his gut?


Dana certainly has his eyes on it... that male gaze is strong.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Toxic said:


> So like Chael Sonnen? I get it Cormier is an olympian, well guess what Chael competed internationally, he was close to making the olympics himself.
> 
> You know who else were Olympians? Two of Chaels old training partners Matt Lindland (Silver Medalist) and Dan Henderson. Now looking at those 3 names are you gonna tell me that gap is suddenly that big because Cormier is an olympia and Chael wasn't? The gap is exagerated. Cormier may be a better wrestler than Chael but he is not gonna be on a whole other level.


Um, yea it is a whole different level. A guy who was a pt away from a bronze at the actual Olympics, who fought at HW in MMA and tossed a guy like Barnett on his head easily isn't that much better than a guy who got like 3rd place at U.S. Trials?

That is like saying a guy who lost at the Titan FC 205 title fight is as good as Gus....or the gap isn't large.....hahahahaha

And no one is saying his wrestling is the best because he was in the Olympics are they? Then I guess GSP isn't allowed to be a good wrestler. DC is a great MMA wrestler because he has showed it in the cage. Barnett is a much stronger, bigger, better grappler than Jones.

That isn't to say DC gets takedowns at will. In a college wrestling match he sure does. This is MMA though. Many other factors than pure wrestling. 

But laugh out loud if you say DC isn't on a different level than Chael. Chael was taken down by Maia and Shogun. Chael Sonnen hadn't fought at 205 in 8 focking years! Took the fight at 205 for the title and somehow he is supposed to be as effective. Hahaha....alright then.

Chael would probably say or maybe already has hinted of how much more of a level DC is on than him.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Um, yea it is a whole different level. A guy who was a pt away from a bronze at the actual Olympics, who fought at HW in MMA and tossed a guy like Barnett on his head easily isn't that much better than a guy who got like 3rd place at U.S. Trials?
> 
> That is like saying a guy who lost at the Titan FC 205 title fight is as good as Gus....or the gap isn't large.....hahahahaha
> 
> ...



Barnett is pretty decent grappler but he has never been that good of a wrestler so I am not sure why he keeps being brought up. Jones is a far more talented wrestler than Josh ever is or was.

I stand by my statement Matt Lindland was a silver medalist and yet was not taking people down at will. My statement on the Gap stands I am not comparing Titan Fc to UFC I am saying the guy who finished 3rd at trials is not miles behind the guy who finished 1st. Is would be like saying Jones is not a different level of fighter than Gus. People are putting to much emphasis on how good Cormiers wrestling Is and not giving enough credit to Sonnens. Sonnen may have been Mw but he is likely the best wrestler in me history bar none. ( better mma wrestler than Olympian Dan Henderson or medalist Matt Lindland). Is Cormier better? Possibly but it won't be by a large margin. 




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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Barnett is pretty decent grappler but he has never been that good of a wrestler so I am not sure why he keeps being brought up. Jones is a far more talented wrestler than Josh ever is or was.
> 
> I stand by my statement Matt Lindland was a silver medalist and yet was not taking people down at will. My statement on the Gap stands I am not comparing Titan Fc to UFC I am saying the guy who finished 3rd at trials is not miles behind the guy who finished 1st. Is would be like saying Jones is not a different level of fighter than Gus. People are putting to much emphasis on how good Cormiers wrestling Is and not giving enough credit to Sonnens. Sonnen may have been Mw but he is likely the best wrestler in me history bar none. ( better mma wrestler than Olympian Dan Henderson or medalist Matt Lindland). Is Cormier better? Possibly but it won't be by a large margin.
> 
> ...


It isn't just a guy who finished 3rd at trials and a guy who won trials. It is a guy who placed 4th at the Olympics with a close ass match for the bronze....and a guy who didn't even make the Olympic team let alone finish that high at them. Or a guy much more decorated in college at Ok St. rather than what? Oregon St.?

Do you understand the difference between Greco and freestyle wrestling? Lindland and Chael were not even in the same competition as DC competed in. 

You act like Linland never dominated people with wrestling in MMA. HAve you ever watched him in his prime? Or Hendo back in the day? They defiantly did do very well with wrestling....not sure what you are even saying. They both were Greco guys anyway.....clinch fighting. It isn't the same so not even sure why you compare all these guys like they all competed at the same thing at that level. Makes no sense. 

WHo did Chael take down? Anderson. Bisping who he couldn't exactly keep down. Marquardt has no wrestling. Okami. Then he was schooled by Rashad and Bones. Hell Shogun and Maia took him down.

But you say he is the best wrestler bar none? Lol.

Again, you seem to not understand the Olympics and what it actually takes to make the team...not only do that but show fairly well. YOU ALSO TO JUST DISMISS THAT HE MADE THE TEAM NOT ONL:Y ONCE BUT TWICE AND WAS A TEAM CAPTAIN BUT COULDN'T COMPETE. 

And for the record yet again. I am not saying DC takes him down at will. It is MMA. If he gets inside, I think he completes some takedowns. Can he keep him there? I have always said on the ground I see Jones engulfing midget DC. I see him being active with elbows. 

I pick Jones to win and he might defend a bunch of takedowns in the process. But don't sit and tell me DC in wrestling isn't on a much better level than Chael. In a wrestling match DC ragdolls Jones and beats him in flawless victory. In MMA it is much different...like I have said. I pick Bones in this fight. 

Chuck Liddell had a limited background in wrestling. But he had an elite sprawl. He had hands to make fighters second guess their shot. He had very good ability to get to his feet. 

The point is, it isn't all about who you are or what you did in Olympics or in college. It matters if you can put it all together. To me Chael looked like a broken man later in his career. A guy not ready for Bones to try and wrestle him. DC to me looks much more sturdy, much more mentally stable, much more desire to win. Chael was so not sturdy that Maia and Shogun got him down. I couldn't see Shogun or say Big Nog taking DC down. 

Chael has said he isn't an athlete in any other respect than wrestling. Very uncoordinated in other aspects of sports. DC had a FULL RIDE to LSU to play American Football. He declined because he was a wrestler who went to one of the best wrestling schools in America.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> It isn't just a guy who finished 3rd at trials and a guy who won trials. It is a guy who placed 4th at the Olympics with a close ass match for the bronze....and a guy who didn't even make the Olympic team let alone finish that high at them. Or a guy much more decorated in college at Ok St. rather than what? Oregon St.?
> 
> Do you understand the difference between Greco and freestyle wrestling? Lindland and Chael were not even in the same competition as DC competed in.
> 
> ...



Finished 3rd at the U.S. Wresting trials means you would have made the team in 90% of the countries competing The U.S. has won twice as many wrestling medals as any other country since the fall of the Soviet Union 

I realize freestyle vs Greco etc my point was if you are competing in wrestling in the U.S. at the highest level you are on the same level as the guys on the Olympic team for all but the sport of wrestlings biggest legends. You may not be as good but you in the same class. 


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

It has been a LONG time since my last live card due to losing a lot of interest towards MMA and the fact that the main card starts like 4AM here. I'm seriously considering watching this live however, that's how good this fight is.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> ....Barnett is a much stronger, bigger, better grappler than Jones.....


But Barnett would get completely owned by Jones, much like we've seen in historical LHW/HW match ups. Just recently look at Johnson vs. AA, or further back, look how Couture (with a wrestling base) completely wiped out the HW's in his mid forties, using his speed and quickness. Look how a 40 year old natural MW in Henderson KO'd Fedor. 

A win over Barnett tells us nothing about how well a HW will do at LHW, especially against the one of the best P4P's in the world, and one of the best MMA grapplers in the world. 

Theoretically, Roy Nelson could drop to LHW (looking at his frame), but I think he knows it would be a terrible career move. He's just not going to land that overhand right on smaller quicker fighters. But he can stay at HW and land those for several more years. Let's be honest, it's an easier division the larger LHW's.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

People banking on DC's wrestling are going to be disappointed when they realize he cant do anything with it. He'll take Jones down a few times and Jon will get right back up IMO and then what...

I cant wait to see this fight, Jones is going to bring some nasty intentions and DC is bringing his belly! 

I remember some individuals bagging on Roy Nelson for his gurth and talking trash but not a peep about DC being fat. I have a suspicion that if this fight is close DC will gas, its a big task to keep Jones backing up for 25 minutes and I dont think he's up to the footwork and conditioning it takes. 

This could be a boring fight too, both dude coming off IR with knee surgery. 

I just want to see JBJ win this then beat the snot out of Gus and vacate for heavyweight so he can go beat up Cain.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

slapshot said:


> ...I just want to see JBJ win this then beat the snot out of Gus and vacate for heavyweight so he can go beat up Cain.


Boy he sure seemed to make weight easy this time. And we both know, the real fight is against Gus. So long as he sticks around for that, I'm good, but honestly, he doesn't seem to be growing out just yet.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I don't see Cormier dominating from the clinch. He might get it, but Jones' elbows are too dangerous and he doesn't need range to land them. Cormier will be terrified from them if he wants to exclusively clinch up to set up his takedowns. I see his TDs because from shots that finish in the clinch, but are only there for a milisecond before Cormier sends him for a ride. I think he did it a bit against Hendo.

And the difference in wrestling between Hendo and Sonnen with Cormier is HUUUUUGE. Hendo was never that great at wrestling in MMA. He was alright. I remember him going 50/50 in wrestling with Carlos Newton despite him not being too long off of the Olympics (Dan was olympic aye?). Sonnen's wrestling for MMA is great, but he's ALL control. He's not that good at takedowns, he's just awesome at putting people against the cage, holding them there, grinding them down, then getting the takedown. From there he sits in guard and does the perfect amount of work to avoid the stand up.

Cormier on the other hand is a much different animal. He's all hip movement and stuff. When he shoots in, he can get the takedown immediately, he can clinch up, he can slam easily, he can control and pass the position.

All all of this to the fact that he's a natural HW where as both of them are probably natural MWs.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Calminian said:


> Boy he sure seemed to make weight easy this time. And we both know, the real fight is against Gus. So long as he sticks around for that, I'm good, but honestly, he doesn't seem to be growing out just yet.


I dont think the real fight is against Gus, Jones beat him wile injured and without a real camp, that was a close fight but I dont think it's as close the second time around. 

DC has had some luck with the guys he's fought, wile he looked good against Barnett, Josh is more of a catch wrestler top position guy who's old, his fight age is 50 the same could be said for hendo. 

DC has fought a lot of old guys that are on the way out and fresh guys that may or may not be going anyplace. 

All Im saying is that the guys DC's wrestling has looked impressive against weren't exactly world beaters when he beat them and were never known to be a force when it comes to TDD or take downs. 

So much talk about wrestling and I have a feeling it wont be a factor in the fight.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Finished 3rd at the U.S. Wresting trials means you would have made the team in 90% of the countries competing The U.S. has won twice as many wrestling medals as any other country since the fall of the Soviet Union
> 
> I realize freestyle vs Greco etc my point was if you are competing in wrestling in the U.S. at the highest level you are on the same level as the guys on the Olympic team for all but the sport of wrestlings biggest legends. You may not be as good but you in the same class.
> 
> ...


You realize Sonnen was involved in trials for the Greco team.

Do you also realize that your quick google search did you little good since you failed to separate Greco from Freestyle.

Your little stat may hold up in freestyle wrestling. But the U.S. is no where as good in Greco wrestling. They do not have twice as many Greco medals as anyone since the fall of the Soviets. That is false. They are actually pretty average in Greco Wrestling. 

Michael Phelps would toast guys in swimming. Guys who made it. Think how far behind a guy who didn't make the U.S. Olyimpic team would be? 

How is the 4th best guy in the world not a whole level better than what? The 30th best guy in the world? Maybe not even. How can you even say that? 

And to mention YET AGAIN....they didn't even compete in the same focking sport in terms of trying to make the Olympics!!!


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Toxic's stat actually made his argument much worse.

He implies that finishing 3rd in trials for U.S. is better than making the team for most.

For Freestyle that is true as USA is one of best countries in that sport. Therefor DC making the team twice and placing 4th seems to mean more in freestyle. 

The U.S. is much worse in Greco....muuuuuch worse. Therefor Sonnen making 3rd in just USA trials isn't that amazing since U.S. has had few medals in Greco. 

Doing a quick search....at LHW or MW the U.S. has one Greco medal. 

The freestyle U.S. team is far and away better in terms of world competition than the Greco team. Thus making Toxic's point the exact opposite he was trying to make.


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> You realize Sonnen was involved in trials for the Greco team.
> 
> Do you also realize that your quick google search did you little good since you failed to separate Greco from Freestyle.
> 
> ...





jonnyg4508 said:


> Toxic's stat actually made his argument much worse.
> 
> He implies that finishing 3rd in trials for U.S. is better than making the team for most.
> 
> ...


He's not entering a wrestling tournament..

Greco has limited utility in MMA anyway, look at all these other competitors that come from very decorated backgrounds in other combat sports who come into the UFC and eat shit..And out of all of them Id say Randy's got the best Greco pedigree at least for what HE could do in the cage with it and he would get destroyed by JBJ inside. 

The styles are only one aspect of fighting, individual aptitude makes the difference between who's going to be great and who's not. 

JBJ is the type of athlete that you could throw into any sport and he would be successful, he's just athletically gifted, DC ehh not so much but this is MMA not Bball or wrestling. 

They fight today! I said TODAY WOOT! Im not attempting to take anything away from DC he's a good fighter but I guess we'll see just how good tonight. 

Do they have fight swimming events where you can drowned the other competitors? Because if they did you wouldn't see Phelps skinny ass anyplace near the pool when JBJ got in..


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Good fights tonight for sure, especially this one. It's going to be really interesting to see how this plays out.


----------



## iksanivica (Mar 3, 2013)

jonnyg4508 said:


> It isn't just a guy who finished 3rd at trials and a guy who won trials. It is a guy who placed 4th at the Olympics with a close ass match for the bronze....and a guy who didn't even make the Olympic team let alone finish that high at them. Or a guy much more decorated in college at Ok St. rather than what? Oregon St.?
> 
> Do you understand the difference between Greco and freestyle wrestling? Lindland and Chael were not even in the same competition as DC competed in.
> 
> ...


Agree with you.

Gustafson took Jones down many times i think much more times then Jones took him down, and Jones man-handled Chael like a baby in there... so Gustafson is best mma wrestler ever?

Chael wrestling cant be compared to Cormier not only because they are different weight-class , but also because DC is simply a spartan, beast with much stronger body, legs, core, hips, abdominal muscles. (he may look funny with that beer belly but those muscles are made of steel)

Unfortunately i dont see how can Cormier stop Jones from being active with elbows in the clinch and on the ground when he gets taken down he will still pose a treat with those freakishly long elbows, or when Jones takes down Cormier which is likely to happen at least once or twice.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

What would be interesting is to see if Jones goes into this fight with a gameplan of taking Cormier down instead. It doesn't mean he can, but perhaps it would throw Cormier off his game a bit, make him back up some and allow Jones to push a pace he wants.

I see Cormier taking this fight, I see him getting on the inside and imposing his will (both in striking and wrestling, keep in mind he dropped Bigfoot and has put the hurt on a lot of guys on the feet), but I'm most certainly not counting out Jones. He has a lot of tools and can obviously utilize them.

I really love this fight, I hope DC takes it and I am confident he will, but even if he doens't overall I just want a good fight. I'd hate to see this fight turn into two guys that are too prideful to lose to the other that they take no risks and the fight ends up a 5 round snooze fest. I'd also hate to see it end quickly, anyone can get clipped right out of the gate, JDS clipped Cain in like a minute and that showed in no way shape or form that JDS is the better fighter, as evident by the following 2 fights.

I want a solid fight that goes at least 3 rounds, where I can see these guys test each other's skills.


----------



## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

I'm happy Saturday is here. I haven't been this excited about a fight since Silva Sonnen 2.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I heard DC make a very interesting comment that he learned more from Chaels fight with Jones than Glovers. Chael went straight after jones in the first second and never let up. Jones never had a chance to establish his eye poke range and was forced to wrestle chael. It didn't work out so well for Chael but for a little bit he was dirty boxing his ass. DC and I believe it will be different for him.





I have 2 predictions.

1. If DC goes straight after jones in the first second and gets a takedown in the first minute. He will end up winning the fight.

2. If jones wins he will call out Cain and go after the HW belt.


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

oldfan said:


> I heard DC make a very interesting comment that he learned more from Chaels fight with Jones than Glovers. Chael went straight after jones in the first second and never let up. Jones never had a chance to establish his eye poke range and was forced to wrestle chael. It didn't work out so well for Chael but for a little bit he was dirty boxing his ass. DC and I believe it will be different for him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didnt feel like Jones was "forced" to do shit against Sonnen, He went out there and out wrestled Sonnen pointedly, he also out struck him at rage and in the clinch.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

slapshot said:


> I didnt feel like Jones was "forced" to do shit against Sonnen, He went out there and out wrestled Sonnen pointedly, *he also out struck him at range* and in the clinch.


Except he never actually landed a strike from "range" in the fight. not one. Because Chael didn't let him. have you seen that fight? Sometimes that can change an expert analysis.



> “I’ve gotta take away his length. If I don’t take away his length, I’ll lose. I can’t stay on the outside of him. He’s too long, he’s too tall, he’s too creative. I’ve gotta be in close, I’ve gotta take him down and I’ve gotta grind on him.”
> 
> “I have to control the pace of the fight, I can’t allow him to make it a slow fight. Because when it’s a slow fight, it’s almost like he’s out there taking pictures, doing all these pretty moves.”


-DC

see, he agrees with me.

More expert analysis from the man himself Chael P.



> “So now, how does Cormier win? And he can win. But he has to pressure him. He has to close that distance. He can’t circle with him. The length alone takes that ability away. Plus we saw Vitor do that, it doesn’t work. No matter how good of a striker you are, if you’re not in range to strike it doesn’t count. Cormier understands this concept. And Cormier will close the distance and start to fight from there and he will throw hard punches, very hard. He will get to that clinch position and push him into the fence. Can he keep him there? That is the question. Cormier believes he can keep him there.”
> 
> “Desire trumps everything in sports. Everything takes a back seat to desire. I think Daniel Cormier has the desire. I know Jon says he has it, but in theory Jon has already climbed that mountain six times. Been there, done that, made the money, had the glory. You can say you are hungry to do it again, but the truth is you are just not. You are not as hungry as the first time you did it. I think that could tip in Daniel’s favor. I don’t know if the gap between who wants it more is significant enough to actually affect the outcome.”
> 
> ...


----------



## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

I think DC will use a similar strategy to what Cain Velasquez used against JDS.

AKA has done well with that approach in the past.


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

How the hell did Sonnen "Not let him throw a strike at rage?"

By getting dumped on his head and offering his face and body as a target in the clinch? Thats some superior strategy DC is on to there. Thats not some ***** in Jones's armor thats just getting your ass kicked in close. 

Im sure Tex thought the same thing, how did fighting in the clinch work out for him?

Jones landed some wicked body shots and elbows on Sonnen. 

Sonnen didn't do one thing not one that was even remotely close to effective. If anything you may need to go re-watch the fight because Ive seen it plenty and even re watched it just now and notta thing Sonnen dose works or forces Jones to adjust his gameplan, DC is talking out his ass when it comes to that fight. Oh and the first strike Jones throws (from distance) hits Sonnen.


Jones may have only landed one strike at range but he controlled the distance, he beat Sonnen at the very least with footwork and timing at distance. You act as if JBJ had a panic moment and shot for a TD, clearly he was in control from the bell to the end.


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## EagleClaw29 (Oct 24, 2010)

**WARNING - LONG REPLY - IF U DON'T LIKE THEM - PLEASE MOVE ON**

LOL - The MMA advertising, marketing, & hype team keeps rolling along singing a song. I can't remember what the Fertito (sp?) brothers paid for the UFC - but it was peanuts & the peanuts have turned into bags of golden nuggets galore.

I don't buy all the bad blood between these guys for a second. Just to get more PPV's & talk going about this fight. It's just part of the machine.

Speaking of which the prelims (to get people hyped - which that last fight will do) are over so now we always see Dana & Joe talking about how this could be the sickest card with the best fights ever on one card

I would like to see D.C. win tonight. That reach Jones has is sick. Think its over a foot longer than Cormier or more. I'm really curious to see what Cormier tries to do to win this. 

I hope this isn't one of these freak headliner fights that they have been advertising like crazy & it is over in 45 seconds due to some weird thing happening....seen it before.

This fight could finally put to rest the question I asked here several years ago - who will lose 1st - Jones or Aldo & of course neither one has lost since then.

Jones only loss since he started figting in the UFC is only because he was DQ'ed for illegal downward elbows. So he's 15-1 in UFC fights (although never losing by an opponent beating him). Plus 6 wins in other organizations...so 21 wins & the one DQ.

Cormier had 4 UFC fights & was 4-0. He was 8-0 in Strikeforce where I think his overall competition there was better than his UFC opponents.

In the UFC....D.C.'s opponents from his last fight....then the 3 before. Last he fought 44 year old Dan Henderson choked him out in round 3. Hendo couldn't land the right & he gasses now later in fights with tough opponents.

B4 that he had Cummins who he TKO'ed. Before that Roy Nelson who he easily decisions. And B4 that Frank Mir....I think I saw that fight & Mir looked like he was in Quicksand.

I always thought D.C. should be one rung down from heavyweight....which of course he now is. So with his Strikeforce vitories over guys like Josh Barnett and Antonia Silva to go 8-0 there, & he had 3 fights in other venues & he won them all.

So he is 15-0 overall. And Jones is basically 21-0. One thing not to forget is that D.C. went to the Olympics. Seems like MMA fighters who made previous Olympic Games have done pretty well in MMA.

Of Course Rhonda went to the Olympics & just taken MMA & the UFC by Storm. Routing her opponents one after another

I've seen him come thru the UFC & he is a smart fighter with skills galore.....but Jones is just one of those freak athletes....there was/is a defensive lineman that they use to refer to as Freak & I think it was because his arms are so long.

OK - no sleep for LONG time....Hope this long meandering E-mail made some sense.

Ad if Jones does lose....I will post the guys who picked him to lose 1st - most peope thought Aldo would lose 1st. I think since its time for the Cerrone fight....so I'll sign off & watch the top fights.

Hope they are good....haven't seen any barn-burners yet.


----------



## jaycalgary (Jun 19, 2008)

Why no post fight interviews?


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

We're only seconds away from "God gave me style, god gave me grace...". It's not quote "Aint No Sunshine" but I'll still defo be standing up for it.

DC coming out to a monotone Lil Wayne sounding shit rapper. LETS GO JONES!!!!


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

100% takedown def for Cormier? Who the fuk was trying to engage takedowns on Cormier before now? lol


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## King Daisuke (Mar 25, 2013)

Sensei Seagal in da house!

I can't take it I'm getting a heart attack! :laugh:


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Trix said:


> I think DC will use a similar strategy to what Cain Velasquez used against JDS.
> 
> AKA has done well with that approach in the past.


Except that only worked because JDS is a fish out of water against the cage, Hunt had success there, Stipe did. Jones will be throwing nasty elbows all day long if DC tries that gameplan.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Toxic said:


> Except that only worked because JDS is a fish out of water against the cage, Hunt had success there, Stipe did. Jones will be throwing nasty elbows all day long if DC tries that gameplan.


That's also Cain's bread and butter, not Cormier's. Cain is the undisputed master of cage control, waaaay above Couture. We've only seem a glimpse of that from Cormier and Jones elbows are KILLER. Defo not the type to attempt that.


QUIT CROUCHING AND PRAYING JONES! Remember what happened to Anderson when he did this shit?!?!?!? lol


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## jaycalgary (Jun 19, 2008)

DC is going to beat the breaks off this fool.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Crossing my fingers for a good fight. I want DC to win, I think he will, but I won't be shocked if Jones wins either. Overall, please give me a good fight. I've been disappointed by most fights on this card, so I hope they save it. Whoever wins or loses, just PLEASE give me a good fight, this card has been... blah.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

What I love about fights like this is the menttality like "These guys arent losing by triangle choke". If shit like that happens, they freak out. It's NOT happening in their minds. This shit isn't getting finished flash. Kind of like Vitor's armbar on Jones. He was just like "This CAN'T happen to me". Cormier has the same mentality.

LET'S DO THIS JONES!


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I agree with a lot of the analysts, this fight will be a one sided fight one way or another. Either DC grinds Jones down on the ground or ends up looking like Rashad and not knowing what to do. I just hope for an awesome fight worthy of the hype at this point.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Jones round 1, but DC is showing some range.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Looks like just too much reach. Depends on who gets caught first.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

DC round imo. also DC should keep punching when hes connecting


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## jaycalgary (Jun 19, 2008)

Too big of a size difference.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Jones is capable of grabbing the ankle AND punching the face at the same time. DAMN that reach advantage is huge. Great round for both guys but indisputably a dominant one for Jones where DC didnt get close to grappling. His dirty boxing game is looking great though.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

More dirty boxing and uppercuts in the clinch needed by DC or he won't win.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Pretty much what I expected in round 1. 4 more of that to go and Jones is still champ..


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

first was close. i have DC winning r2 so far


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Round 2 DC, 19-19.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I think DC may have stolen round 2 at the end, I have it 1 - 1 right now.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

if Jones gets r2 im quitting mma


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Jones has a helluva chin holy shit.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Who'd have thought this was a case of Cormier's overrated wrestling Vs Cormier's underrated striking?

1-1.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Oh man, i have a feeling DC is getting this


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## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

I think it's even at 19-19. Close rounds.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Big round for Cormier


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

I'm surprised how much JBJ is just clinching & allowing DC to stay close in that round.

I think it's 1-1; 1st rnd closer than the 2nd.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

1 1 for sure.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

BIG round for DC there and we are all tied up..


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## Old school fan (Aug 24, 2011)

Jones is taking some nasty shots, damn!


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

And the eye pokes start.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Well that was overdue. Just rubbish.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Eyepoke #1 is in the books


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

JBJ classic eye poke special, served up as expected.


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

And theres the poke...


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Unintentional lol... Must have most eye pokes of any fighter...


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Jones is taking this so far. DC might have taken 2 but not for sure.

Rogan gets way too excited when dc lands.

jesus...awesome fight tho either way.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

somebody should tell rogan that cormier is winning this


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I feel uncomfortable seeing Jones this tired. 2-1 Jones though. Close round again but I've scored them somewhat easily.


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## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

29-28 Jones.


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## jaycalgary (Jun 19, 2008)

Go DC!


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

2-1 jones


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Got it 2-1 Jones


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Jones looks kinda off, just sorta hanging on a lot. IDK. I felt DC took that last rnd narrowly, mostly at the end.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

N1™ said:


> somebody should tell rogan that cormier is winning this


i thought rogan was being generous to dc. jones is landing.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I got Jones 29-28 at the end of 3.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

N1™ said:


> somebody should tell rogan that cormier is winning this


Why would you want to lie to Rogan?


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Cormier is dead tired.


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## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

DC looks gassed.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

not looking good for cormier


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Who Is That ****head In The Crowd Constantly Yelling And Sounding Like A Power Drill.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

i had dc winning 2 and 3. flashy strikes does not > all those uppercuts imo. he is losing now though


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Cormier definitely gassing.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

3-1 Jones.

HILARIOUS that Jones is winning in wrestling and DC is winning in striking.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

I'm actually bored with this.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

^^ me too, gus fight was way better, can't wait for him or rumble to fight jon.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Jones is wrecking him, it's over DC unless he finishes it in this round. Look at them in their corners, DC is having problems sitting right up, Jones looks fairly fresh.


----------



## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

I got it 3-1 Jones but it could also be 2-1 Jones with a 10-10 round.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

39-37 for Jones going in to the final round, DC needs a finish.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

The first two rounds were amazing, even the third was a lot of fun, but DC gassed in round 4 for sure. Very disappointing.


----------



## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

*yawn*


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

DC JUST GOT A TAKEDO....aaaaaaand it's gone.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Herb Dean Wins by DQ!


----------



## Old school fan (Aug 24, 2011)

Loved that sucker punch at the end. :laugh:


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

pretty much what i expected.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Crap fight, bring on gus vs jones 2 or rumbles vs jones.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

Jones 3-2 imo. Hes just to large and skilled. Gus is the only one who maybe can beat him. Also if JDS moves down


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

And your winner and STILL UFC LHW Champion of the world Jon BONES Jones!!!


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Old school fan said:


> Loved that sucker's punch at the end. :laugh:


by dc? when jon threw the fight was still on.


----------



## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

That looked like a really boring Couture leaning on Sherk for 5 rounds or something.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Anthony Johnson is the only guy I think that has a legit chance against JBJ. But I need to see more.


----------



## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

cdtcpl said:


> Anthony Johnson is the only guy I think that has a legit chance against JBJ. But I need to see more.


why ? Alex beat Jones 3-2 imo


----------



## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

OMG, Jon Jones didn't shake DC's hand.

Jon Jones is so uncool man.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

first simultaneous hw and lhw champ any time he wants.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

YES!!!! A FIGHTER WHO INSULTED THEIR FIGHTER AFTER THE DAMN FIGHT!

I've been waiting for this moment my entire life.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

I hate that both gus and rumble are fighting eachother, because the loser will have to win like 3 more fights to get a shot then.


----------



## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

N1™ said:


> why ? Alex beat Jones 3-2 imo


I had it Jones 3-2, but I think in a rematch Jones would probably win more lopsided. Anthony Johnson is so insanely explosive with so much power that I think he could flash KO anyone.


----------



## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

We all know an instant rematch is already in the works.


----------



## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Rygu said:


> We all know an instant rematch is already in the works.


Between DC and Jones? It wasn't that close.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

It's too bad Cormier gassed in the 4th, the first 2 rounds were very close and really competitive, and the 3rd less so but still good, and then after that Jones had his way with him on the takedowns and just in general. I guess it's that pace Cormier was trying to push, training with Cain they might have made the cain vs. JDS type gameplan, but Cormier is not Cain in the gas department so it didn't work.

Oh well, I liked the first couple rounds. Good effort from both guys. The card as a whole sucked though in my opinion, the cowboy fight was fun though.


----------



## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Trix said:


> OMG, Jon Jones didn't shake DC's hand.
> 
> Jon Jones is so uncool man.


DC was sooo tired and then he wasn't so tired :thumb02:

Also Dana's body language post fight tells the whole story. No rematch, Cormier might have to get fired and Mr Jones will be asking for a raise.


----------



## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

Ape City said:


> first simultaneous hw and lhw champ any time he wants.


Dont get fooled by the fact that DC and Cain train together. Cain is a whole nother animal. Im not saying Jones is chanseless but thats the only fight in the ufc i wouldnt bet on jones


----------



## Old school fan (Aug 24, 2011)

Ape City said:


> by dc? when jon threw the fight was still on.


Yep! Herb was like 'WTF dude'


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Gus has a great chance of beating Jones. His striking looked VERY off tonight. Amazing that Jones was the MUCH better wrestler in the cage tonight. Gus has a great chance in striking if Jones comes out like that (obviously not regarding Jones best ever striking display Vs Glover).

If Rumble fought THIS Jones, he'd have won by KO. Rumble's uppercut is probably the best in MMA and Jones barely defended DC's. At the same time, THIS Jones won't be fighting Rumble, so it's likely a completely different fight. I want to see both Vs Jones now, someone get injured from their fight!!!! lol


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Rygu said:


> We all know an instant rematch is already in the works.


No way. Gus was a way more competitive fight. Gus deserves it way more and has a much better chance imo.


----------



## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

M.C said:


> The first two rounds were amazing, even the third was a lot of fun, but DC gassed in round 4 for sure. Very disappointing.


Yup. Body shots will do that. I was wondering why Jones was in southpaw so much in this fight, thought it might have something to do with wrestling stances but it turns out it was to work the left punch and knee to the body.

Really freakin' interesting fight on the technical level, it's gonna take a lot more views to soak everything in.


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Old school fan said:


> Yep! Herb was like 'WTF dude'


ya one of those was late for sure by DC.


----------



## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

N1™ said:


> Dont get fooled by the fact that DC and Cain train together. Cain is a whole nother animal. Im not saying Jones is chanseless but thats the only fight in the ufc i wouldnt bet on jones


Yeah Cains a whole other animal the type that shows up once a year...maybe.


----------



## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

cdtcpl said:


> I had it Jones 3-2, but I think in a rematch Jones would probably win more lopsided. Anthony Johnson is so insanely explosive with so much power that I think he could flash KO anyone.


too bad its only a matter of time before AJ gets popped for tah juice :thumbsup:


----------



## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

Really tough fight for Jones but he dug deep in the 3rd and 4th. 
I would not call it a one sided beating by any means as DC was successful when he got on the inside and he also landed a solid takedown. 
I think those two takedowns in a row in the 4th made a big difference - even if DC was able to get right back up. Solid fight. I hope we get to see Gus/Jones 2.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## cookiefritas (Jun 17, 2011)

Great fight by Jones but I can't help but feel that he turned the fight around right after he poked Cormier in the third. 

Cormier was winning the dirty boxing but probably lost the fight when he tried to wrestle with Jones, ironic I know. Jones is just a much bigger man that Cormier, he was able to somewhat bully him against the cage at times.


----------



## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

DC tried to go all Cain Velasquez on Jones. Guess what, you ain't Cain Velasquez dc.

Jones vs Cain, some time next year. Cain will savage Jones.


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

aerius said:


> Yup. Body shots will do that. I was wondering why Jones was in southpaw so much in this fight, thought it might have something to do with wrestling stances but it turns out it was to work the left punch and knee to the body.
> 
> Really freakin' interesting fight on the technical level, it's gonna take a lot more views to soak everything in.


Jones just keeps getting better technically. Tonight he made a technician looks silly. Usually DC is fighting the bigger guy and using technique to win. Tonight DC got schooled with technique...then he gassed.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

aerius said:


> Yup. Body shots will do that. I was wondering why Jones was in southpaw so much in this fight, thought it might have something to do with wrestling stances but it turns out it was to work the left punch and knee to the body.
> 
> Really freakin' interesting fight on the technical level, it's gonna take a lot more views to soak everything in.


I instantly knew Jones was trying to tire DC out but I didnt think it was going to happen. Jones was tiring bad and taking some shots at the same time. DC's body kicks were VICIOUS! It wasn't until Jones starting putting some weight on DC in the clinch that it changed. Jones stopped trying to strike and started trying to weight down on him, pushing forward as well. DC got tired and Jones proved that he's more of a man than we all give um credit for.


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

It was a close fight, but Jones clearly won.
The only thing that got me really disappointed in this fight was the fact Herb Dean didn't separate the two in so many occasions they were doing nothing by the fence.


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

More or less what I thought would happen and Jones would beat Cain, Ive said it for a long time now and I hope that fight happens. 

Jones beat Gus already, if AJ wins his next fight let Jones beat him too.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

cookiefritas said:


> Great fight by Jones but I can't help but feel that he turned the fight around right after he poked Cormier in the third.
> 
> Cormier was winning the dirty boxing but probably lost the fight when he tried to wrestle with Jones, ironic I know. Jones is just a much bigger man that Cormier, he was able to somewhat bully him against the cage at times.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA it had to happen eventually lads didn't it?

If Jones didn't have an eye poke this guy would probably say "Jones eye poking previous opponents must have put it in DC's mind" or some shit.


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Good fight...DC didn't adapt. The clinching wasn't working. LHW title holder pulled away in the 3rd on up. Gotta give credit where it's due. Guess it's Gus/AJ. I'm curious to see how The Chris would do.

Twist: On the fight that'll push him over the UFC record...he faces The GOAT himself and gets dethroned that's my wish. 

Damn his eye pokes...


----------



## rodolfo (Jan 28, 2014)

Ape City said:


> No way. Gus was a way more competitive fight. Gus deserves it way more and has a much better chance imo.


So it begins.

Cormier defeated now people have faith in Gus again 

Jones will defeat Gus much easier next time.

PS: nothing personal dude :thumb02:


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I expect aliens to abduct jones any time now for the intergalactic cagefighting circuit.


----------



## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Did anyone else think that instead of using all of his energy on that 1 TD in the 5th that DC should have just swung for the fencer with 3 or 4 punches? I mean he does have bombs for hands, and taking Jones down once just to prove you could do it really doesn't mean anything when you are losing.


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## rodolfo (Jan 28, 2014)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Gus has a great chance of beating Jones. His striking looked VERY off tonight. Amazing that Jones was the MUCH better wrestler in the cage tonight. Gus has a great chance in striking if Jones comes out like that (obviously not regarding Jones best ever striking display Vs Glover).
> 
> If Rumble fought THIS Jones, he'd have won by KO. Rumble's uppercut is probably the best in MMA and Jones barely defended DC's. At the same time, THIS Jones won't be fighting Rumble, so it's likely a completely different fight. I want to see both Vs Jones now, someone get injured from their fight!!!! lol


Jones striking "looked very off" because he wanted to beat Cormier by wrestling


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

No_Mercy said:


> Good fight...DC didn't adapt. The clinching wasn't working. LHW title holder pulled away in the 3rd on up. Gotta give credit where it's due. Guess it's Gus/AJ. I'm curious to see how The Chris would do.
> 
> Twist: On the fight that'll push him over the UFC record...he faces The GOAT himself and gets dethroned that's my wish.
> 
> Damn his eye pokes...


Jones just defeated an Olympic wrestler who is a natural heavyweight and you want to give him a guy who uses a lot of his wrestling that is a natural MW?

Jones beats Chris 5-0.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

rodolfo said:


> Jones striking "looked very off" because he wanted to beat Cormier by wrestling


I'd like to say that's true myself haha. Although his overhand right technique was 100% to get the takedown. He went for the ankle and the head at the same time. But he looked very sluggish with his striking straight away imo. His boxing Vs Glover was stellar and he just didnt use it this time.


----------



## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

No_Mercy said:


> Good fight...DC didn't adapt. The clinching wasn't working.


I think that was the difference, Jones adapted whereas DC did not. First couple rounds Jones was getting tagged with uppercuts in the clinch since he kept going for the double collar-tie without tying up DC's arm, but he figured that out later on and spent a lot more effort on wrist & hand control which worked well in shutting down the uppercuts. Once he learned he could clinch with DC and not get taken down or take much damage, he changed his tactics to clinching with DC and working on the inside.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Man, Jones eye poked Cormier. That's becoming a freaking cliché already. 
I was surprised how chilled out Cormier was about that.

And was only me or Jones did blatantly grab the top of the fence to avoid geting slammed to the ground?


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

aerius said:


> I think that was the difference, Jones adapted whereas DC did not. First couple rounds Jones was getting tagged with uppercuts in the clinch since he kept going for the double collar-tie without tying up DC's arm, but he figured that out later on and spent a lot more effort on wrist & hand control which worked well in shutting down the uppercuts. Once he learned he could clinch with DC and not get taken down or take much damage, he changed his tactics to clinching with DC and working on the inside.


Great post. Once Jones stopped going for double collar and switched to the traditional clinch, he was able to put weight on DC to take his energy and control the fight while defending.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

aerius said:


> I think that was the difference, Jones adapted whereas DC did not. First couple rounds Jones was getting tagged with uppercuts in the clinch since he kept going for the double collar-tie without tying up DC's arm, but he figured that out later on and spent a lot more effort on wrist & hand control which worked well in shutting down the uppercuts. Once he learned he could clinch with DC and not get taken down or take much damage, he changed his tactics to clinching with DC and working on the inside.


Spot on. He may not be the most articulate fighter, but he's always thinking and adapting. DC let his emotions get into his head and spent five rounds trying for that one takedown. He should have went Fedor style to make it dirty.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Man, Jones eye poked Cormier. That's becoming a freaking cliché already.
> I was surprised how chilled out Cormier was about that.
> 
> And was only me or Jones did blatantly grab the top of the fence to avoid geting slammed to the ground?


And here come the excuses.  It's going to be insane watching people come to grips with this. JBJ hate through the roof.


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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

First off, serial eyepoke offenders like Jones need to be penalized immediately. I mean, come on. It was obvious DC was winning that round and the eyepoke completely broke the momentum and Jones landed a hard kick right when they reset and won the rest of the round. If the eyepoke helped him win the round, deduct a point to make that shit fair. The eyepoke gave him a round..

That said, Jones is a bad dude and very hard to outlast. DC got tired and Jones stays pretty consistent all 5 rounds. Jones earned the victory.

Those eyepokes just aren't right when they actually make a difference in the fight, but the offender isn't penalized.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Jon Jones eye poked Rampage Jackson so bad that DC lost.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

The eye poking is a legit problem. I mean it's brought up a lot, but seriously, almost every fight these days he pokes someone in the eye. I'm hoping the new gloves fixes his issue, but I have my doubts as he purposely has his fingers spread out.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

M.C said:


> The eye poking is a legit problem. I mean it's brought up a lot, but seriously, almost every fight these days he pokes someone in the eye. I'm hoping the new gloves fixes his issue, but I have my doubts as he purposely has his fingers spread out.


Jones was like a fuking alterboy tonight. He completely changed his game and began holding DC back by the shoulder/clavicle/neck area as opposed to the forehead. Tonight wasn't a "Jon Jones eye poke night".


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## rodolfo (Jan 28, 2014)

Jones win by using his opponents best weapons, AGAIN! He just beat cormier by wrestling and infighting.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

And can we all agree now, Cormier is not the best wrestler in the LHW div. let alone mma.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Jones is on fox now. "He's not the king of the grind. I'm the king of the grind. I don't like him I don't respect him and I hope he's somewhere right now crying. I'm sure he is."


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

oldfan said:


> Jones is on fox now. "He's not the king of the grind. I'm the king of the grind. I don't like him I don't respect him and I hope he's somewhere right now crying. I'm sure he is."


I like it, DC failed badly at fight hype and fighting and jone sdoesn't like him so jones can say whatever he wants.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Jones was like a fuking alterboy tonight. He completely changed his game and began holding DC back by the shoulder/clavicle/neck area as opposed to the forehead. Tonight wasn't a "Jon Jones eye poke night".


Is that why he poked him in the eye?


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I love that people are ALREADY saying Cormier's wrestling is "okay" while Cain's is "fuking amazing greatest ever lol fuk Jones!!!!!".


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

oldfan said:


> Jones is on fox now. "He's not the king of the grind. I'm the king of the grind. I don't like him I don't respect him and I hope he's somewhere right now crying. I'm sure he is."


He could have stopped after the grind part, IMO. He is definitely the best grinder of the two and nothing wrong with stating that. After that, let it go. You said everything you needed to say in the ring.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I love that people are ALREADY saying Cormier's wrestling is "okay" while Cain's is "fuking amazing greatest ever lol fuk Jones!!!!!".


Its entertaining lol.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

M.C said:


> Is that why he poked him in the eye?


Btw why didn't you post in the prelims about ALLL those groin shots earlier in the night? Including the ones that happened several times in one fight even though Jones eye poked just once in this one?

Jones adapted his style here. He wasn't anything CLOSE to the eye poking machine everyone have abuse to. It can still happen. He will always be at risk of it happening. But he has already worked on his game to avoid it which was evident in the fight tonight. There was one mishap but you can't jump on the guy for that.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I love that people are ALREADY saying Cormier's wrestling is "okay" while Cain's is "fuking amazing greatest ever lol fuk Jones!!!!!".


And thus we reach the horrible irony of Jon Jones we hate the one guy who actually is that great that we inflate his contemporaries into rivals and then dis-guard them when exposed. 

I feel like people are so scared of frontrunning in being Jones fans that they will jump on any bandwagon for him to lose.


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## rodolfo (Jan 28, 2014)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I love that people are ALREADY saying Cormier's wrestling is "okay" while Cain's is "fuking amazing greatest ever lol fuk Jones!!!!!".













Before the fight, Cormier was Cain's master


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

rodolfo said:


> Before the fight, Cormier was Cain's master


I had an argument not too long ago after I said Cain was the much better wrestler for MMA than Cormier was. People were all like "Lmfao you know Cormier teaches Cain dude? Dont be stupid" and shit.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Btw why didn't you post in the prelims about ALLL those groin shots earlier in the night? Including the ones that happened several times in one fight even though Jones eye poked just once in this one?
> 
> Jones adapted his style here. He wasn't anything CLOSE to the eye poking machine everyone have abuse to. It can still happen. He will always be at risk of it happening. But he has already worked on his game to avoid it which was evident in the fight tonight. There was one mishap but you can't jump on the guy for that.


I didn't watch the prelims, and why would I comment on any groin shots? If one single guy threw a lot of groin shots, he'd get shit thrown his way constantly. Of course, we already know this, because Kongo was given tons of shit, all the time, every fight, for his constant groin shots.

Jones pokes eyes, he does, that's a fact. It's not an opinion, it's not a guess, I'm not assuming anything - he pokes eyes a lot. More than anyone else in MMA I can think of. Tonight, he again poked his opponents eyes. He only did it once so that makes it okay? I mean I guess you are right, at least he only did it once this time and not 3 times like he has done against his opponents... which is sad, really sad, that the best we can say is "at least he only poked his eyes once this time.....", quite sad to have to say that about any MMA fighter, much less a champion.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

M.C said:


> I didn't watch the prelims, and why would I comment on any groin shots? If one single guy threw a lot of groin shots, he'd get shit thrown his way constantly. Of course, we already know this, because Kongo was given tons of shit, all the time, every fight, for his constant groin shots.
> 
> Jones pokes eyes, he does, that's a fact. It's not an opinion, it's not a guess, I'm not assuming anything - he pokes eyes a lot. More than anyone else in MMA I can think of. Tonight, he again poked his opponents eyes. He only did it once so that makes it okay? I mean I guess you are right, at least he only did it once this time and not 3 times like he has done against his opponents... which is sad, really sad, that the best we can say is "at least he only poked his eyes once this time.....", quite sad to have to say that about any MMA fighter, much less a champion.


It doesnt make it "okay". It makes it worthy of a warning, which professional long time referee (non internet referee) Herb Dean followed through on as per the rules of mixed martial arts.

I agree with you. 3 times, hell even 2 times...point off. We're not talking grabbing the cage here, it's a serious foul. You get a warning then you're deducted a point. That's the rules.


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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

And it wouldn't have been a Jones fight if he didn't do some weird asshole type move lol. He raised his arms up before the round ended and made DC think the round was over. Then when DC let go he punched him in the face lmao.

Then in the post fight calls DC unprofessional for throwing punches after the bell and almost hitting Herb Dean.

It is what it is the dude is an absolute winner like him or not. He's a bad man. I don't think Rumble is technical enough to beat him and a Greg Jackson gameplan and Gustaffson may have a hard time in the rematch. The day this guy loses my head might explode lol.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> It doesnt make it "okay". It makes it worthy of a warning, which professional long time referee (non internet referee) Herb Dean followed through on as per the rules of mixed martial arts.
> 
> I agree with you. 3 times, hell even 2 times...point off. We're not talking grabbing the cage here, it's a serious foul. You get a warning then you're deducted a point. That's the rules.


Then why wasn't he taken a point when he did poke his opponent 3 times? Or when he did it 2 times? Or when he had his fingers out, pawing at rampage's eyes like a mad man obviously not caring whatsoever that he's poking his eyes? Real professional refs there.

The rules need to change. Jones knows he has never had a point taken for poking eyes, and guess what? It makes him not fear anything about poking eyes. Jones needs to be point deducted on the first eye poke, otherwise he will keep doing this every fight.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

M.C said:


> Then why wasn't he taken a point when he did poke his opponent 3 times? Or when he did it 2 times? Or when he had his fingers out, pawing at rampage's eyes like a mad man obviously not caring whatsoever that he's poking his eyes?
> 
> The rules need to change. Jones knows he has never had a point taken for poking eyes, and guess what? It makes him not fear anything about poking eyes. Jones needs to be point deducted on the first eye poke, otherwise he will keep doing this every fight.


Quote where I said I didnt think he should have had a point taken off against Rampage, Tex, or anyone else. He absolutely should have. He SHOULDN'T have in this fight however. You CAN'T deduct points from someone for past discretions. It doesnt work like that.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Quote where I said I didnt think he should have had a point taken off against Rampage, Tex, or anyone else. He absolutely should have. He SHOULDN'T have in this fight however. You CAN'T deduct points from someone for past discretions. It doesnt work like that.


That's the point. It doesn't work like that, but it SHOULD work like that. If a guy is a repeat offender in almost every fight he has, he should be held to a higher standard by refs. If you know a guy pokes eyes, and then in the fight he poke eyes, a point should be deducted. He won't poke eyes anymore if that happens, will he?

You said "professional refs" and I just explained that no, they are no professionals when they let someone poke a guy 3 times and not deduct a point. You're the one that referenced these "professionals", and by bringing up the times when he wasn't deducted a point, I'm saying no, they are not doing their job properly, something needs to change. This will continue if it doesn't, and it's absolutely stupid and ridiculous that it keeps happening, and it's ALL Jones fault. Every bit of it. People don't poke eyes in every fight they have, or most fights, Jones does. It's not the gloves in his case, it's him.


----------



## HorsepoweR (Jun 1, 2007)

M.C said:


> That's the point. It doesn't work like that, but it SHOULD work like that. If a guy is a repeat offender in almost every fight he has, he should be held to a higher standard by refs. If you know a guy pokes eyes, and then in the fight he poke eyes, a point should be deducted. He won't poke eyes anymore if that happens, will he?
> 
> You said "professional refs" and I just explained that no, they are no professionals when they let someone poke a guy 3 times and not deduct a point. You're the one that referenced these "professionals", and by bringing up the times when he wasn't deducted a point, I'm saying no, they are not doing their job properly, something needs to change. This will continue if it doesn't, and it's absolutely stupid and ridiculous that it keeps happening, and it's ALL Jones fault. Every bit of it. People don't poke eyes in every fight they have, or most fights, Jones does. It's not the gloves in his case, it's him.


100% agree.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

You guys would probably be cool with Jones starting a fight 2 points down or something.



So if Cormier poked Jones = Warning.
If Jones poked Cormier = Deduction.

Fair?


----------



## King Daisuke (Mar 25, 2013)

Well, obviously DC didn't do what Sensei Seagal told him. :laugh:


----------



## sucrets (Jul 8, 2007)

Most of the responses I am reading are just plain stupid.

People denying/understating Jone's tendency to poke eyes.
People discarding DC after his first ever loss.
Claiming Jones can basically walk into the HW division and dominate it.
That Jones going on Fox and conducting himself like juvenile fool is somehow tolerable, perhaps even warranted.

Absolute nonsense.

The truth is DC disappointed. I scored it 2-3 Jones. The difference as another poster said, was Jone's ability to adapt and DC's inability to do so. By round 3 it was DC 2-1. After that, Jones adapted well, although he was not nearly as effective as he usually is - in fact he was very ineffective for most of the fight, which shows how utterly ineffective DC was. This was not a fight of who fought best but rather a fight of who fought worst. That was DC by a small margin.

Very disappointed by the quality of the fight as well as DC's overall performance. I was expecting a lot more than this. Maybe now that they know the way, they will fight more loosely in the next one. 

And there will be a next one.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

N1™ said:


> i had dc winning 2 and 3. flashy strikes does not > all those uppercuts imo. he is losing now though


Almost feels as if you were watching another fight. DC was throwing more shots, Jones was landing more. DC did a good job of pressuring Jones for the first 3 rounds but JBJ sill found a way to land more.


----------



## King Daisuke (Mar 25, 2013)

Woodenhead said:


> I'm actually bored with this.





UFC_OWNS said:


> ^^ me too, gus fight was way better, can't wait for him or rumble to fight jon.





Woodenhead said:


> Oh well, I liked the first couple rounds. Good effort from both guys. The card as a whole sucked though in my opinion, the cowboy fight was fun though.





cookiefritas said:


> Great fight by Jones but I can't help but feel that he turned the fight around right after he poked Cormier in the third.
> 
> Cormier was winning the dirty boxing but probably lost the fight when he tried to wrestle with Jones, ironic I know. Jones is just a much bigger man that Cormier, he was able to somewhat bully him against the cage at times.





M.C said:


> The eye poking is a legit problem. I mean it's brought up a lot, but seriously, almost every fight these days he pokes someone in the eye. I'm hoping the new gloves fixes his issue, but I have my doubts as he purposely has his fingers spread out.





sucrets said:


> People denying/understating Jone's tendency to poke eyes.
> People discarding DC after his first ever loss.
> Claiming Jones can basically walk into the HW division and dominate it.
> That Jones going on Fox and conducting himself like juvenile fool is somehow tolerable, perhaps even warranted.
> ...


These pretty much cover my thoughts on the fight. Oh well, everybody loses eventually. On to the next one.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Andrus just told me "**** facebook" for spoiling the main event for him. What would you expect when your subscribing to the UFC and lord knows what MMA sites as well.. :dunno:


----------



## Anteries (Oct 22, 2010)

Bit of an offshoot topic wise. But I thought Jones won the weigh ins. The psychological game is a big part of fighting. We all know how deflating is coming up against someone who gets the best of us in the verbal game. Jones came across as the cool kid in school and Cormier seemed floundering. I don't mean to criticise I know it's not easy. But Cormier was not the eye of the Tiger stone cold killer he might have otherwise been. But of course you can't just magic that stuff up. I believe him when he said he felt his timing was off. If he was on his absolute a game, I believe he would have won. Cormier still did very well though.


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## iksanivica (Mar 3, 2013)

I believe DC should have let Jon chase him this way he was just running into knees, kicks.

Pride got the best of DC trying to prove he is a better wrestler instead of focusing on what was working: dirty boxing, closing distance with combos, big Mistake.

Like two kids trying to prove who's "daddy" is stronger , thats not how bruce lee would approach this fight.


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## Andrus (Oct 18, 2011)

I was surprised Jones got DC down 3 times in the 4th round. Good fight though


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Calminian said:


> And here come the excuses.  It's going to be insane watching people come to grips with this. JBJ hate through the roof.



Don't see how this could be an excuse to anything. It is an embarrassing fact. I am 100% sure Jones fans were desperately hoping they wouldn't have to defend Jones from his trademark foul this time and .... he let them down again. 

It's like being a fan of Palhares and saying to the TV "lei it go, let it go" or a fan of Anderson and hoping he uses his elusiveness just to counter and finish, instead of fooling around and mocking his opponents or hoping Big Nog keeps his mouth shut after a loss. 

Jones clearly won the fight and his fans have all the right to celebrate, but he once again risked seriously hurting his opponent, and because he did it just once that's not reason to celebrate, as just one eye poke may be enough to cripple someone for life, so how can I let this slide just because it wasn't the reason Jon won?


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I'm a terrible judge. I don't count the strikes or keep notes on who controlled what for how long. Maybe Jon was already winning on points before the eye poke. I didn't think so, but I know that the poke plus the body kick that was the first strike Jones threw after the poke took the wind out of DC's sails. It changed the momentum of the fight and DC never got it back.

I also took note of Rogan's comment. "Ahhh...the *FIRST* eye poke."

Jones probably could have won without cheating but we/he will never know.


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

You people will come up with any bullshit excuse, Ive herd it all now...


The eye poke did jack shit to influence the outcome of the fight. DC didn't even take 60 seconds to rest... 

Its just ignorant trolling to say it had an impact on the fight at all.


----------



## Goat Man (Oct 19, 2007)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Man, Jones eye poked Cormier. That's becoming a freaking cliché already.
> I was surprised how chilled out Cormier was about that.
> 
> And was only me or Jones did blatantly grab the top of the fence to avoid geting slammed to the ground?


Sadly, I don't think it would have made much difference if Jones had NOT grabbed the top of the fence, but that's what I saw.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

slapshot said:


> You people will come up with any bullshit excuse, Ive herd it all now...
> 
> 
> The eye poke did jack shit to influance the outcome of the fight. DC didnt even take 60 seconds to rest...
> ...


:laugh: people who don't know how to spell or use spell check shouldn't be calling others ignorant.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

DC pretty much broke down the fight at the presser, whoever hasn't watched it yet, do it. If DC can give Jones props for doing a good job and surprising him in certain areas, why can't we.


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

oldfan said:


> :laugh: people who don't know how to spell or use spell check shouldn't be calling others ignorant.


LOL lick my what?

Sure, you just get deep on that stick and gurgle.

Obviously if I was wrong in anyway you wouldn't have had to resort to baiting.

Besides why should people who "cant spell" not call out bullshit when they see it?


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Rauno said:


> DC pretty much broke down the fight at the presser, whoever hasn't watched it yet, do it. If DC can give Jones props for doing a good job and surprising him in certain areas, why can't we.


I gave him credit. I said he probably would have won without his trademark cheat move. 

it's a simple fact that we can't prove that.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

oldfan said:


> I gave him credit. I said he probably would have won without his trademark cheat move.
> 
> 
> 
> it's a simple fact that we can't prove that.



If you weren't reaching for some kind of excuse you wouldn't have brought it up at all. It comes off like your still subconsciously trying to plant that seed that it did matter when it very clearly did not. Face it we can all hate Bones but the dude is something truly special and it will likely be a long time till somebody can beat him


Sent from Verticalsports.com App


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

oldfan said:


> I gave him credit. I said he probably would have won without his trademark cheat move.
> 
> It's a simple fact that we can't prove that.


BAHAHAHAHWAHAHAH

I um,

HAHAHAHAHA!

Give it up grammar expert your boy failed, "cant prove it" oh man thats a good one. 

Gurgle, gurgle... ROTFL.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

slapshot said:


> *LOL lick my what?
> 
> Sure, you just get deep on that stick and gurgle.*
> 
> ...


Now that is the kind of intellegent argument that we expect from you

are you through editing this post yet? call bullshit if you want. being ignorant while you call others ignorant is funny.

I notice you went back and fixed some of your more ignorant mistakes in the earlier post. keep trying you didn't get them all yet


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

oldfan said:


> Now that is the kind of intellegent argument that we expect from you
> 
> are you through editing this post yet? call bullshit if you want. being ignorant while you call others ignorant is funny.
> 
> I notice you went back and fixed some of your more ignorant mistakes in the earlier post. keep trying you didn't get them all yet


Hay did you hear? 

They are making a rematch because you are a sad panda, true story! 

LOL, nothing is more ignorant than not being able to admit your wrong.. have a nice day, chump. 


Did I spell all that right for you?

P.S. I didn't have to debate, you offered nothing of substance from the beginning.



oldfan said:


> call bullshit if you want. being ignorant while you call others ignorant is funny.


That is the part of your post I had to chuckle about, pure irony.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Toxic said:


> the dude is something truly special and it will likely be a long time till somebody can beat him
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


I can't argue with that. it's a shame he can't make it through one fight without eye pokes.

how many other fighters poked someone in the eye last night?

if 10 ordinary fighters can make it through their fights without shoving their fingers in their opponents eye, why cant the great one?


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

oldfan said:


> I can't argue with that. it's a shame he can't make it through one fight without eye pokes.
> 
> how many other fighters poked someone in the eye last night?


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Loved how Jones just started dumping Cormier on the floor... that Olympic wrestling. 

Jones was good tonight and once again he was tough as hell. I think he toys with Johnson and beats Gus again. 





slapshot said:


> Hay did you hear?
> 
> They are making a rematch because you are a sad panda, true story!
> 
> ...


"Hay" is what horses eat, "Herd" is a group of animals. You live on a farm or something? Is it because "Goat Man" posted after you?


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

As a known Bones fan, here are my thoughts...

Fight itself was pretty good. Like Bones/Gus but with less drama, mainly because the last two rounds were ho-hum. It was a boring fight if you don't follow MMA, but I enjoyed it and appreciated the "stalemate" aspect of some of it.

Bones clearly won, there is zero debate. I had it 49-46 but can understand 48-47. Cormier's striking wasn't bad but he couldn't have Bones stayed up against the cage, nor could he really take him down. 

Good fight, yet another name added to Bones' legacy. Looking forward to Gus/Rumble winner if they're still fighting next. Also, ZERO problem with Bones celebrating with around 7 seconds left. It's his choice to do that and the opponent's choice to do something about it. Also, too much fake hate (like Kos/GSP when they fought), so glad they didn't "hug it out" or anything.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Joabbuac said:


> Loved how Jones just started dumping Cormier on the floor... that Olympic wrestling.
> 
> Jones was good tonight and once again he was tough as hell. I think he toys with Johnson and beats Gus again.
> 
> ...


Balls are what your mother licks to earn money....


----------



## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

:laugh: good one.....


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

slapshot said:


> Balls are what your mother licks to earn money....


:laugh: Are you still drunk or is this your normal level?


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

oldfan said:


> :laugh: Are you still drunk or is this your normal level?


You're the one who's drunk, If it hadn't been for that eye poke that had no effect on the fight DC would have schooled JBJ! 


GTFO....

Youre just being a low sleazy person, I didn't attack you personally till you started running your mouth about grammar and spelling. 

I understand its the only thing you had to attack because I was right but come on dude..

ALL because JBJ beat DC and you cant handle it without trying to take your frustration out on someone.

So go on Mr. keyboard warrior, keep telling yourself the eye poke changed the fight (snicker) but rational people will see you're just wrong.

Hope I spelled it all correctly, we wouldn't want grammatical errors to cloud your comprehension.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

slapshot said:


> You're the one who's drunk, If it hadn't been for that eye poke that had no effect on the fight DC would have schooled JBJ!
> 
> 
> GTFO....
> ...


\

get someone to read my first post to you before you embarrass yourself anymore.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

oldfan said:


> \
> 
> get someone to read my first post to you before you embarrass yourself anymore.


I know right!

But hay DC was totally whipping that ass until he got robbed by that eye poke right? 


Troll on with your


> I gave him credit. I said he *probably* would have won without his trademark cheat move.
> 
> it's a *simple fact* that *we can't prove that*.


 douche self. If you go back to my original post it wasn't even directed at you but somehow Im reading your posts wrong? 

Yeah buddy, Im the one who's drunk.. /rolls eyes.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Cut it out guys


Sent from Verticalsports.com App


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Cut it out guys
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


Let me explain,

Not that you know, but Me and Mr. oldfan here have had more than one PM as time has rolled on and during that time he keeps harping on my spelling.

Not that its anyone's business and screw you people for dragging it out but I have dyslexia and I explained as much to him in a PM because I wanted him to know that that was all it is. I graduated high school and completed some collage courses, I didn't want him to think of me as uneducated.. 

So wile you may not know it, he's pointedly making fun of my disability and he did know it, nice guy. I guess I fell for it but its such a low move it was hard not to respond. 

Besides that, Jones beat that ass. There is no way in hell that eye poke changed the outcome of that fight, is that really worth being such a ass about? 

Its more than just a dig on some spelling because I gave him information that he's trying to use.

Im more pissed about having to explain this in a thread but that's probably my fault.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

I remember Sonnen saying when he fought Jones he couldn't put his hands around him for how big the kid is and I saw that happening once again last night against Cormier.

Jones bends over him and his back is a freaking meter away from DC and he has a hard time barely grasping his hands, let alone making any pressure on Jones spine.

Add to that Jones own wrestling abilities and DC got himself a very frustrating awakening about his own wrestling capabilities once the fight started, and me too.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> I remember Sonnen saying when he fought Jones he couldn't put his hands around him for how big the kid is and I saw that happening once again last night against Cormier.
> 
> Jones bends over him and his back is a freaking meter away from DC and he has a hard time barely grasping his hands, let alone making any pressure on Jones spine.
> 
> Add to that Jones own wrestling abilities and DC got himself a very frustrating awakening about his own wrestling capabilities once the fight started, and me too.


Kind of agree with this. DC finally understood that MMA wrestling is different. I have no doubt he'd wipe the floor with Jones on a regular greco-roman contest but out there, it's a different thing.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

DC's comments post fight were all class, he was honest about gassing and the knee and even made a few comments about Jones being much stronger than DC anticipated, correcting the guy who stated it was Jones's reach and saying it was his skill set, it felt like honesty and integrity that we rarely see from fighters.

I like DC, it seems like he's a good dude and the post fight presser was a little hard to watch because I could empathize with how bad DC was feeling.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Awesome fight, plain and simple. Some people thought it was boring. Everyone I watched it with and I loved it. It made the whole card worth it.

I agreed with Jones winning, but the 49-46 cards made it seem like more of a land slide than it was. They both looked good out there.

Funny how a lot of people were saying if Cormier could close the distance and clinch, the fight would be his, but Jones ended up getting the better of the clinching, and Cormier actually did well with his boxing. He caught Jones many times. They both have great chins which is good to see.

Also funny how Jones said he was "5-0" on the take down scale against Cormier, but uhh, I seem to remember Cormier picking him up and slamming him once. I'm guessing adrenaline made him forget.

I figured Jones would win, but the fight was a lot more competitive than I originally anticipated. Total dog fight that the people I watched it with and I enjoyed a lot. Lots of "Ohhhh!'s and "Whooooa!"s were had, haha.

I hope to see them fight again down the line. I didn't get to watch the post fight presser, anyone got a transcript? Glad to see Cormier humble in defeat. He's an amazing fighter as well and really brought it to Jones.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Jones probably didn't think of it because his back touched the floor for like half a second. Probably made it slip his mind.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

That's probably true, his take down defense and ability to get back up easily is outstanding. Cormier wasn't used to that. I can imagine the frustration.


----------



## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Fell asleep just before Cerrone/Jury...just watched the JBJ fight, had it more 48-47 but I was surprised to see him win over Cormier. Guess I grossly overhyped Cormier.

If JBJ beats the Gus/Johnson winner then I think he should move on up to HW.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

I mean, maybe over hyped a little, but he still did well when you consider he is fighting the p4p best. (in my opinion) Can't fault him too much for losing.

Jones is just a beast that is comfortable everywhere. Maybe some people will realize that his reach alone hasn't brought him this far. He is a truly skilled athlete with physical advantages as well. Not an easy match up for any fighter.


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## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

I Like both fighters, but was pulling for Jones, but yeah Cormier was the classier guy after the fight (the presser for example.) Of course it's easier to be 'humble' after you lose, but overall given some of the other things Cormier had said leading up to the fight I just think Cormier is the more mature person over all .... of course Cormier doesn't have to deal with the haters Jones has to deal with so I'll cut JBJ a break for using Cormier as a proxy for 'shoving it in the face' of all the haters (which in and of itself is a bit juvenile.)

As for the eye poke: Yes, something needs to be done, but I'm not sure how it could be made better other than maybe doing a video review during the timeout and trying to determine if the poke was obviously on purpose or through significant negligence (ie: were the fingers straight out or were they perpendicular to the face and only incidentally hit the eye after the palm of the hand first touched the face - as I recall from the replay, was the case of the JBJ eyepoke ... I'll also say that the actual poke on replay looked to be more of an 'eye touch' than a 'poke', but that's not to take away from any potential damaging effect it may have had on Cormier, you can't always tell the level of damage based on what it 'looks like' .. just saying that from the replay and Cormier's actions after the poke, I doubt the eye poke had any affect on the outcome at all ... Cormier was right to take the time he did to make sure any blurriness cleared and there was no serious damage, but by his quick recovery I think it's pretty clear the poke was of the minor kind.)

It's hard to come up with an eye poke rule that wouldn't take away reach advantage .. hell, Jones had a 12" reach advantage, you can't expect him not to use it, and if you use reach advantage as a defence then eye pokes are going to happen ... making an eye poke an immediate point deduction would pretty well make reach only applicable to offensive striking ... you might as well ask to immediately take a point away for groin kicks and take away any contemplation of inside leg kicks ... it just wouldn't make sense in a MMA context.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

NoYards said:


> It's hard to come up with an eye poke rule that wouldn't take away reach advantage .. hell, Jones had a 12" reach advantage, you can't expect him not to use it, and if you use reach advantage as a defence then eye pokes are going to happen ... making an eye poke an immediate point deduction would pretty well make reach only applicable to offensive striking ... you might as well ask to immediately take a point away for groin kicks and take away any contemplation of inside leg kicks ... it just wouldn't make sense in a MMA context.


You can use reach advantage without poking people in the eyes. Boxers make use of their reach all of the time without it happening due to their gloves. MMA gloves just allow fighters to stick their fingers out. The only thing I can think of is some kind of a closed fist rule.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Just like the Gus fight, Jones took over in the championship rounds. A lot is said about Jones' other abilities, but he also seems to have a good gas tank whereas Cormier looked considerably more fatigued.

He also seems to be able to adjust his strategy and come up with the right approach or technique mid-fight.

Its impressive, and I wish Jones wasn't such a douche so I could enjoy it more.

I thought Cormier did great as well. He didn't shy away from contact or pressure, he just didnt have enough to break down Jones.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Ok fine. Make fun of the old guy. I'm a sad panda, an ignorant troll, I've got weird subconscious motivations and all that other clever stuff. Still, It's my understanding that this is a place for MMA fans to express their opinions on fights and fighters. Not other poster's mothers. We all know what they say about opinions... everybody's but mine stinks. So I'll honor you with it.

In my opinion Jon Jones is the best fighter ever in this sport, in the world today and certainly that I've ever seen.

In just a short time he has mastered martial arts to a degree I've never heard of. As far as I remember he's beaten each of his opponents at their on game. Instead of taking them out of their comfort zone he goes straight into it. He is a one in a billion talent. His timing, accuracy and precise technique are nearly perfect. He has such total control of his body that he can connect effective strikes with his shoulder or even his chin in situations where other professional fighters wouldn't have time to think of it. He does things with his elbows and knees that make the best fighters in the world look like white belts.

*In my opinion if Jon Jones wanted to keep his fingers out of his opponents eyes he would. There would have never been one eye poke in his career if that was what he wanted. He has that much control.*

Sometimes I wonder why he chooses to cheat. Maybe he needs that for the confidence to dive right into his opponents strength. Last night he out wrestled a great wrestler . Could he have done it without the eye poke? We can only speculate because he didn't. At this point it wouldn't surprise me if he submitted Werdum and spanked an exhausted gassed out Cain. It would be more admirable if he did it without intentional eye pokes.

There were a lot of fighters last night that didn't put their fingers in anyone's eye. Are they better fighters than Jon or better sports? 

That's my opinion and that brings me right back to what they say about opinions.......and assholes.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

slapshot said:


> I dont see anyway Cormier should win this fight but he could no doubt. I think Jones presents a lot of difficulty's for him.
> 
> I have a lot of questions,
> 
> ...





slapshot said:


> Its not a video game, sometimes when two wrestlers fight they cancel each other out. You dont need Olympic wrestling to stop a shot in MMA.
> 
> If DC is reduced to shooting in for singles and doubles from outside the clinch then its going to be a painful night for him.
> 
> ...





slapshot said:


> Im sure Tex thought the same thing, how did fighting in the clinch work out for him?





Stapler said:


> Funny how a lot of people were saying if Cormier could close the distance and clinch, the fight would be his, but Jones ended up getting the better of the clinching, and Cormier actually did well with his boxing. He caught Jones many times. They both have great chins which is good to see.


Not everyone though, Toxic and Calminian disagreed with the idea DC would dominate with his wrestling in the clinch as well.


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## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

Stapler said:


> Jones is just a beast that is comfortable everywhere. Maybe some people will realize that* his reach alone hasn't brought him this far*. He is a truly skilled athlete with physical advantages as well. Not an easy match up for any fighter.


Agreed, although I might argue that whether he needed to or not his reach *was* used to get to where he is ... obviously, after this fight, the question as to whether he could have gotten there without as much reliance on it is still a very valid question.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Sure Jones reach alone did not brought him here, but overlooking this evident advantage he has is like saying Anderson would have the same success he had in his career if he was shaped like a MW Roy Nelson.

That being said, that's other fighters problems to solve. I never criticized Tibau for fighting several weight classes below his natural weight, I won't criticize Jones for similar reasons. Whenever he can make 205 lbs he is a legit LHW, no matter how big he is.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

NoYards said:


> Agreed, although I might argue that whether he needed to or not his reach *was* used to get to where he is ... obviously, after this fight, the question as to whether he could have gotten there without as much reliance on it is still a very valid question.


Being able to use reach is a skill regardless of how long your arms are and without that skill reach means nothing, yours, mine, Jon's, doesn't matter who. 

So what you're saying is "if he didn't poses the skills he has, he'd be a different fighter" and obviously yes, yes he would but its a dead end question because without bullets you can take aim and pull the trigger as much as you want but you're not going to shoot anyone with the gun..


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## Anteries (Oct 22, 2010)

Stapler said:


> Awesome fight, plain and simple. Some people thought it was boring. Everyone I watched it with and I loved it. It made the whole card worth it.
> 
> I agreed with Jones winning, but the 49-46 cards made it seem like more of a land slide than it was. They both looked good out there.
> 
> ...


agree, great fight.

Watched it finally on catch up. Late to the party, but great fight hugely enjoyable. Great effort by Cormier he looked good in places. Good to see Jon Jones got in his mandatory I poke, I believe that his contract, at least one I poke the fight. There should be a rule if someone has a history of eye pokes that it's a point off straightaway no argument.

One of the great things about Jones is that in his last few fights he doesn't look invincible. But is a real battler toughing it out. Embracing the grind. For me being like this is far more revealing than some hype merchant who knocks people over like ninepins in the 1st minute. Jon Jones is one of the few fighters that we really know how good they are. For me their fight was the perfect fight that I enjoy, with loads of skill on show and an equal matchup. Cormier can hold his head up because he really went for it.


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## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

HitOrGetHit said:


> You can use reach advantage without poking people in the eyes. Boxers make use of their reach all of the time without it happening due to their gloves. MMA gloves just allow fighters to stick their fingers out. The only thing I can think of is some kind of a closed fist rule.


Boxers don't have to use their hands/fingers to grapple. MMA gloves allow fighters to stick their fingers out for a reason.

I understand that boxers can make use of reach advantage wearing 'closed fist' gloves, but boxers also aren't allowed to grab onto the opponents wrist or hands while striking, so there's no need for 'open fingers'.

How would your 'closed first' rule work? 

I haven't looked at a replay other than the one they showed during the fight, but if I recall correctly Jones' palm hit Cormier's face first and then the fingers touched the eye, and not just a case of the fingers being straight out and poked directly in the eye.

Would you give an automatic deduction or an official warning if the hand touched the face other than with a closed first? I can't see that working unless you wanted to turn MMA striking into pure striking and take away an important part of the MMA striking defence.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

It didnt influence this fight but its still not a hard problem to solve.


You cant take a point, that just makes a bad rule worse and creates more problems than it solves.

Seriously, all they need to do is make it illegal to extend the arm with a open hand. You can still hold your closed fist in their face to disrupt vision or block strikes. 

This rule problem is at the feet of the NSAC, they can change it but dont.


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## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

slapshot said:


> Being able to use reach is a skill regardless of how long your arms are and without that skill reach means nothing, yours, mine, Jon's, doesn't matter who.
> 
> So what you're saying is "if he didn't poses the skills he has, he'd be a different fighter" and obviously yes, yes he would but its a dead end question because without bullets you can take aim and pull the trigger as much as you want but you're not going to shoot anyone with the gun..


No, I don't think I said that. What I meant to say was that he used his reach advantage (and his skill to use his reach effectively) to get where he is ... the Cormier fight raises the question as to whether he would have needed to use that advantage or skill at all.

Having beat Cormier using a lot of grappling and cage work seems to me to suggest that he might have been able to get here if his reach skills were less well honed (thinking specifically of his fight with Gus. More close in and cage work might have been a better option in that fight?)

Not that he hasn't shown great grappling skills before, I just think those skills were overshadowed by his stand up striking skills.

On a slightly related point, we saw what I believe was a completely new grappling move last night ... a side kick to the knee while grappling.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

NoYards said:


> Boxers don't have to use their hands/fingers to grapple. MMA gloves allow fighters to stick their fingers out for a reason.
> 
> I understand that boxers can make use of reach advantage wearing 'closed fist' gloves, but boxers also aren't allowed to grab onto the opponents wrist or hands while striking, so there's no need for 'open fingers'.
> 
> ...


Man, Jones was the only one who poked anybody's eye yesterday. Of course that can be implemented. When they created that "hand on the ground rule" many knees were delivered to the face until people got the idea they couldn't no more. Wanna measure distance? Close your fist or stay away. Somebody mentioned Machida sticks his fingers too, but come on, look how far away he is from his opponent and still measuring his distance fine and how many times he poked anyone? Zero.

You touch somebody's eye should be minus one point straight away. If Jones can't handle that, too bad, Pride fighters had to say goodbye to soccer kicks also.


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## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

slapshot said:


> It didnt influence this fight but its still not a hard problem to solve.
> 
> 
> You cant take a point, that just makes a bad rule worse and creates more problems than it solves.
> ...


Well, you certainly could make that rule, but that means all stand up hand fighting and wrist control techniques go out the window .. I agree that for pure striking a rule like that would be of no big consequence, but mma striking is not boxing or kick boxing, there's a reason fighters have open hands with extended arms. We can decide to remove those techniques as part of MMA, but we must be aware that is what we are doing and not just solving one problem without considering the ramifications.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

NoYards said:


> Well, you certainly could make that rule, but that means all stand up hand fighting and wrist control techniques go out the window .. I agree that for pure striking a rule like that would be of no big consequence, but mma striking is not boxing or kick boxing, there's a reason fighters have open hands with extended arms. We can decide to remove those techniques as part of MMA, but we must be aware that is what we are doing and not just solving one problem without considering the ramifications.


Nah, there is a clear difference between reaching out and grabbing a arm or a clinch and posting your open hand in someones face and I dont believe that the rules *cant* be that specific. 

You of coarse would have to define the parameters of what action is to be determine a foul but its not something that would be difficult to implement.


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## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

slapshot said:


> Nah, there is a clear difference between reaching out and grabbing a arm or a clinch and posting your open hand in someones face and I dont believe that the rules *cant* be that specific.
> 
> You of coarse would have to define the parameters of what action is to be determine a foul but its not something that would be difficult to implement.


Okay, that makes sense, yes there certainly could be a distinction that could be made, but for the most part all the discussion I've heard on making an eye poke rule doesn't tend to make many distinctions.

But even then I'm not sure the 'theory' would always fit the 'reality' .... some fighters have a defensive striking stance with their hands close to their bodies/head. If you want at all to attempt wrist control then you have no choice but to get your open hands close to the face. If the opponent then decides to move it for a strike they run the danger of walking into an eye poke.

I suppose the rules could take that into consideration and simply call it a 'self inflicted' accidental eye poke and just give the fighter recovery time with no penalty to the other fighter, but that too is something that would have to be considered in making the rule I would think.

Having a legally open hand, legitimately hand fighting or grabbing for the wrist can quickly turn into a situation where the hands are too close to the face and no time to react and close your hand, or causing an instinctual response to use the open hand as a defence. I'm not convinced that a simple rule would actually prevent these kinds of events, and am I convinced that some fighters would not intentionally position themselves to get a 'hand in the face' (ie: when you see someone hand fighting you suddenly lean your head into the open had hoping to have the rule enforced and a point deducted from your opponent.)

After we have a few fights stopped, or unwarranted decisions made, because of 'hands in the face' penalties, then we have a whole new argument.

That said, eye pokes can cause some of the most serious permanent damage that you can get in an MMA fight, so something needs to be done to try and prevent serious damage ... I'm not against new rules, but I'd suggest that any such rule be made a 'trial rule' with a fixed expiry data where it is reviewed for effectiveness and only reinstated if the results warrant.

I'm not a big fan of limiting fighting techniques because of potential danger (this is MMA after all and not baseball, the objective is in large part to cause damage to your opponent) but a serious eye injury is not a broken bone, healing is not always possible, so big fan or not I support some action on fixing this problem ... just not actions that don't work and are only done to be see to be doing something.

Anyway, that's my rant and I don't mean any disrespect to anyone who disagrees or has other ideas as to how to handle this issue.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

NoYards said:


> Boxers don't have to use their hands/fingers to grapple. MMA gloves allow fighters to stick their fingers out for a reason.
> 
> I understand that boxers can make use of reach advantage wearing 'closed fist' gloves, but boxers also aren't allowed to grab onto the opponents wrist or hands while striking, so there's no need for 'open fingers'.
> 
> ...


I don't see a problem with taking points similar to how points are taken for crotch shots. The fighter throwing kicks certainly didn't intend on crotch shotting someone, some cases they line up a kick and throw it, and the opponent moves causing it. But at the end of the day, the fighter striking is responsible for where their shot lands. The same can be said for eye pokes. You can stretch for fingers out, but it is your responsibility to make sure it doesn't land in someone's eye.


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## arkanoydz (Mar 15, 2010)

this was one of those times the fight went pretty much the way I expected. I was rooting for DC all the way, but part of me was pretty sure Jones would get the win. In particular, I had a feeling DC wouldn't have his way with Jones in the wrestling department (pains me to say this since I would have loved to see Jones being thrown around like Barnett).

As much as I still dislike Jones's persona, the guy proved himself a champ once again. (found his post-fight smacktalk pathetic, though). Honestly, I felt he didn't look like he was in trouble the whole 5 rounds, and Cormier is a beast and has proven himself already. DC pressured him and landed a few uppercuts, but nothing noteworthy imo. 

I have a feeling Gus will lose more clearly come rematch time (though I will be rooting for him).


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I don't see a problem with taking points similar to how points are taken for crotch shots. The fighter throwing kicks certainly didn't intend on crotch shotting someone, some cases they line up a kick and throw it, and the opponent moves causing it. But at the end of the day, the fighter striking is responsible for where their shot lands. The same can be said for eye pokes. You can stretch for fingers out, but it is your responsibility to make sure it doesn't land in someone's eye.


Yeah but how often do we see groin kicks? quite frequently right? and how often do they take points away? Bordering on never, if you are asking for the ref's to treat eye pokes like they do groin shots, Id say they already do and that IS the issue.

Look at strikes to the back of the head, they might as well just take that rule out. 

Its just compete incompetence from the ref's to the commission.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

The thing with groin shots and eye pokes is, there's nothing that can be done to completely stop them. Putting in new gloves or something to help with the frequency of eye pokes is a good step forward.

The problem is when one particular person has a very high rate of doing one of these things, Kongo with his groin shots, Jones with his eye pokes, although at this point Jones has poked more eyes than Kongo kneed balls.

When a single fighter consistently pokes his opponents eyes or knees people in the balls, it is no longer a "well, things happen" situation. It's a "this guy needs to stop poking people in the damn eyes" situation. It's doubly stupid when you consider that Jones knows he pokes people in the eyes, and even made a video mocking people about the subject, and then still continues to poke people in the eyes.

It's straight up dirty fighting, Jones knows he does it and continues to do it. Why? Because he never gets points deducted. He doesn't have to worry about it. He can get away with poking someone in the eye, no foul. Be it one time, 3 times 2 times, no foul. It needs to stop, he needs to get a point deducted for poking the first time, and he will stop.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

^ Yup

Jones should have points instantly removed if/when he does eye pokes. He knows he can get away with 1 or maybe even 2 each fight so doesn't give him any incentive to change.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Forcing a rule like this on JBJ alone could be viewed wrong imo though. I agree that Jones doesn't care if he pokes or not because. I also believe he doesn't actually want to poke but doesn't worry about it when it happens, because as others said - he doesn't get punished.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Rauno said:


> Forcing a rule like this on JBJ alone could be viewed wrong imo though. I agree that Jones doesn't care if he pokes or not because. I also believe he doesn't actually want to poke but doesn't worry about it when it happens, because as others said - he doesn't get punished.


It wouldn't be a rule just on Jones, it would be a rule on anybody who consistently eye pokes/does groin shots. Things happen and you can't prevent them, so if someone randomly pokes an eye when normally he doesn't, no big deal, give a normal warning. But if this same guy pokes the eyes of more than half the people he fights, to a point where you actually expect an eye poke, that guy should have an automatic point deduction in my opinion.

I can guarantee that if Jones got deducted a point for poking an eye, he'd stop doing it.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Oh mine, so much bureaucracy. Let them measure distance anyway they like, then, even stretching their fingers close to opponents faces. The moment they touch someone's eyes, point deducted right away, no questions asked. Fair for everyone. End of story.


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## Gustafsson Fan (Apr 3, 2012)

oops, wrong topic


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Gus has a great chance of beating Jones. His striking looked VERY off tonight. Amazing that Jones was the MUCH better wrestler in the cage tonight. Gus has a great chance in striking if Jones comes out like that (obviously not regarding Jones best ever striking display Vs Glover).
> 
> If Rumble fought THIS Jones, he'd have won by KO. Rumble's uppercut is probably the best in MMA and Jones barely defended DC's. At the same time, THIS Jones won't be fighting Rumble, so it's likely a completely different fight. I want to see both Vs Jones now, someone get injured from their fight!!!! lol


As someone already mentioned, Jones' striking looked "off" because he was in wrestling mode. For me, his striking didn't really look "off", it looked adapted to his wrestling oriented gameplan. For sure, it wasn't the effective type of striking he used against other opponents. That was, because he indeed WAS worried about Cormier's wrestling. Jones put on a pretty good offensive wrestling performance, but it was at least equally about his _defensive_ wrestling. That influenced his striking a lot. You could see, everytime Cormier tried to close the distance, Jones ducked down, preventing overhand rights, but at the same time TD shots disguised as strikes like Velasquez did against Dos Santos. Even being the much taller guy, when the two fighters came very close to each other, Jones would be the one below Cormier. So Jones often struck from that ducked down position which made his striking look a little weird. That approach made Jones a little vulnerable to uppercuts which he ate a few in the beginning, but later was able to adapt.

His clinch striking looked also a little different, because he had to make sure that Cormier couldn't drop and grab his body or legs, so while controlling his opponent with that constant threat in mind, Jones couldn't have the same inside striking like he had i.e. against Teixeira.

Given the threat Cormier posed, I think Jones did very well in this fight and almost completely neutralised the main offense of his opponent. This fight is basically no indicator at all how Jones' striking will look like in a Gustafsson rematch of a Johnson fight.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

oldfan said:


> Ok fine. Make fun of the old guy. I'm a sad panda, an ignorant troll, I've got weird subconscious motivations and all that other clever stuff. Still, It's my understanding that this is a place for MMA fans to express their opinions on fights and fighters. Not other poster's mothers. We all know what they say about opinions... everybody's but mine stinks. So I'll honor you with it.
> 
> In my opinion Jon Jones is the best fighter ever in this sport, in the world today and certainly that I've ever seen.
> 
> ...


The part in bold actually made me think about it and honestly you kinda have a point. While I don't think he intentionally tries to poke his opponents in the eye it does become obvious that he isn't really trying not to. I wonder if its not a psychological ploy to keep his opponent a little more on guard and defensive by using the threat of an eye poke to throw them off.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Thought it was a good entertaining fight. I was really surprised at how much bigger than DC Jones was.

I thought Jones made DC look bang average in all departments. Great win for him.

Also, I have Gus beating DC as well. Doesnt seem to be able to deal with the taller fighters.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Toxic said:


> The part in bold actually made me think about it and honestly you kinda have a point. While I don't think he intentionally tries to poke his opponents in the eye it does become obvious that he isn't really trying not to. I wonder if its not a psychological ploy to keep his opponent a little more on guard and defensive by using the threat of an eye poke to throw them off.


I think it's the rules. Jones knows he pokes people and i do believe he doesn't want to do it. He get's no penalty for it so he doesn't really worry about the poke. Should he ever get a point deduction, he'd make sure his hands/fingers are in the right position.


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## Pillowhands (Mar 10, 2012)

The constant danger of eye poke combined with unorthodox striking,reach advantage challenge and the constant danger of being taken down seems to be a lot to handle for the opponents.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Killz said:


> Also, I have Gus beating DC as well. Doesnt seem to be able to deal with the taller fighters.


I don't think so. Jones had a brilliant counter wrestling game plan and has the wrestling background to do so (I know, Gustafsson took him down, but that was rather a surprise, because Jones planned against Gustafsson as a striker). Gustafsson fights tall, but that wasn't Cormier's problem. Cormier's problem was that everytime he closed the distance to shoot for a TD, Jones ducked down and wasn't the tall lanky opponent anymore.


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## Gustafsson Fan (Apr 3, 2012)

IMO if Jones beats Gustafsson in the rematch without using pokes or other cheats I rate him as the P4P #1 all time.

Another note is, I think D.C should fight the loser from Gus vs Rumble. It is really great we have 4 competetive fighters at the top in the 205 and so I look forward to more matchups between them.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Gustafsson Fan said:


> IMO if Jones beats Gustafsson in the rematch without using pokes or other cheats I rate him as the P4P #1 all time.
> 
> Another note is, I think D.C should fight the loser from Gus vs Rumble. It is really great we have 4 competetive fighters at the top in the 205 and so I look forward to more matchups between them.


I look at Jones weight class the same way as Aldo or Rousey he could be the p4p best in the world and maybe when his career ends 9 years down the road the GOAT but the divisions are too thin to credit him as the GOAT.

He's got to go like 40-1 and beat guys like Cain Velasquez, Chris Weidman, Jacare Souza, Luke Rockhold, and some impressive prospects like a Liam McGeery.

The Hendersons, Coutures, Fedors, GSPS and Hughes of the world they fought everybody.

Now if he decides to drop to MW which he was talking about in the post fight presser than you can really start talking about him as the GOAT because that's actually an amazing division it isn't filled with leftovers of a bygone era.


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## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

JJ is so athletic and at least matches everyone in skill and cage IQ, then adds his natural height for leverage...almost unstoppable at LHW. He has lost some rounds here and there but seems very coachable and always has a good game-plan to go with his elite talent. In the near future it seems like the only thing that is going to beat him is getting lazy or too confident.


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## King Daisuke (Mar 25, 2013)

oldfan said:


> Ok fine. Make fun of the old guy. I'm a sad panda, an ignorant troll, I've got weird subconscious motivations and all that other clever stuff. Still, It's my understanding that this is a place for MMA fans to express their opinions on fights and fighters. Not other poster's mothers. We all know what they say about opinions... everybody's but mine stinks. So I'll honor you with it.
> 
> In my opinion Jon Jones is the best fighter ever in this sport, in the world today and certainly that I've ever seen.
> 
> ...


Bas Rutten agrees with you, and I agree with Bas. If he says it's so too, it is so.


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