# Shogun Looking Forward To Rematch With Lyoto Machida



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

http://www.mmanews.com/ufc/Shogun-Looking-Forward-To-Rematch-With-Lyoto-Machida.html



> _"I'm happy to fight again with (Machida), not because I think I won the first match but to have a new opportunity to fight for the belt. My big dream is to win the belt, so I want that fight again because it is a fight for the belt ... I can’t change a lot of my game because I’ve fought this way for 10 years, so I cannot totally change my game just because of Machida. Thank God I could annul his game, but unfortunately I could not win the belt. Now I have a new battle ahead, and I will make a new strategy. I'm in very basic training, but in February I’ll already be training harder. I believe that [__light heavyweight__] is the most competitive in the world. It always was. I know you will never have a breeze, and as I fight in the UFC, which is the biggest event in the world, I know I'll always face tough guys and can’t expect to have easy bouts. I know that and I will always expect to face the top fighters of the division."_






I know Stokes is pumped!!!!:thumb03:


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## Skull Hammer (Jan 7, 2010)

I would love to know how machida feels about the rematch.
at the post match he said "whenever whenever he wants i try again no problem" >> can't wait for that match !!


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Will be a totally different fight this time around. Some one completely destroys the other. I honoustly can't call which. All I know is this fight will give a lot of answers.

Both will be alot more aggressive this time.


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## Skull Hammer (Jan 7, 2010)

I agree 100%


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Skull Hammer said:


> I would love to know how machida feels about the rematch.
> at the post match he said "whenever whenever he wants i try again no problem" >> can't wait for that match !!


 
Here's how he feels::thumbsup:

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/69873-dragon-heals.html


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

I welcome anyone to quote me on this one. This fight will end the way most people thought the first one was going to. It's going to be a rough night for Shogun.


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## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

Nice find, mate.

Yeah, I reckon we could see a more one sided affair this time round, too. I doubt both are going to want to allow it to go to the judges again and will be going for the kill. After analysing it a bit more, I think the rematch will be tougher for Shogun than I first thought.

He executed a wonderful strategy first time round and I felt won that fight overall, but Machida seems like the worst person to have to rematch because now he has already gone the distance and has proven he can take damage, plus his style will be slightly adjusted to avoid and counter those kicks to the ribs/legs. Also the fact that Shogun will no doubt not want to leave it to judges pretty much means he'll have to be very aggressive, which sort of plays into Machida's hands. Shogun needs to remain aggressive but controlled at the same time. Only go Chute Box if he knows he has Machida hurt.

I don't mind who wins. Just let it be the best man is all I say.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

All i know is that Shogun came in the last fight like a hidden assassin with those leg kicks, he knew that Machida's style is a counter aggressive if you watch his Machida Karate DVD's He has one leg out forward because he is able to set up the leg kicks to the head and body easily and he can go in and out of the pocket a lot faster, so that would mean he is able to back up faster when attacked and then go in for the counter, and pick apart openings quicker. But Shogun and his training team saw how Machida would always keep that leg there and pop in and out of the pocket picking apart every fighter with Knees to the Body or a black belt Judo throw or takedown, or just clean shots and leg kicks like there gabs. So Shogun knowing this if you watch the fight a million times like i have. Machida would act like he was going to move forward and Shogun would throw everything he had to the body or leg, and 40% of the time Machida did attack and took a leg/body shot EVERYTIME, and Shogun wasn't going to get tired of throwing those leg kicks seeing the damage is was doing, so everytime he thought Machida was coming in his pocket he would instinctively just throw a leg kick with everything he got, smart Judo, and after that third round is when i saw Machida's whole style change. Because the damage at that point was to much, he was like limping and lost all movement and kicks... Machida without kicks is like Frank Mir without his submissions, and after that 3rd round Shogun did what no other before him could, beating Machida 2 rounds in a row after never losing a round.... This rematch is going to be the fruits of Machida's Labor and it will a completely differnt fight with Machida as the Champ! Its like Anderson Silva said after these next few months Machida is going to have the best leg kick defence in all MMA, not that Shogun is going to be stupid enough to just do the same thing obviously but at the same time those kicks is ALL he really landed the whole fight........


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## PunchUintheFace (Jan 1, 2010)

The 1st fight was a classic. Obviously Shogun has found a way to take away Machida's elusiveness. So we know Machida won't be back peddling a lot now. What we don't know is how will he counter Shogun's kicks. I doubt Anderson Silva can teach Machida anything new that he already doesn't know. I'm going to guess & say Machida will go for the take down to counter the Shogun kicks rather than get kicked all night like in the last fight. Heck, You never know his ground game could even be better than Shogun's for all we know. Only one way to find out & I think he's going to gamble. If this is the case it's going to be an all out war. We've seen Shogun in too many back & forth wars already, I think he's going to be more comfortable if the fight goes in that direction. While Machida has relied heavily on his elusiveness to evade & counter attack his opponents, call me crazy but I totally think the tables have turned this time in Machida having to fight Shogun's fight in order to win. Should be another classic, can't wait.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

"Thank God I could annul his game, but unfortunately I could not win the belt."

This line says it all. Shogun was thankful he could close down Lyotos game, but couldn't do anything to actually hurt him. Pure respect to Shugun for the respect shown to the champion.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

i still dont understand why ppl think machida will be more aggressive and wont backpedal as much.... thats how he fights, he has never lost a fight, he wont change.

Let me add, i laughed alot at the ppl predicting Machida via (T)KO in the 1st fight.... and i'll laugh again. Machida rarely knocks ppl out and Shogun NEVER gets knocked out, if anybody is going to sleep it will be Machida.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

I believe Machida will still be the elusive fighter he is, and his game has always been to draw people to him so he can counter, personally would expect that Machida will circle in a more effective manor away from Shoguns powerful kicks, also I see Machida using his pivots and angles more to escape being caught with those kicks, of course Shogun will be coming with a different game so its gonna be intresting...

I dont see either going to sleep, however a possible TKO although it could be another decision, lets hope not....I do believe Machida will be more agressive and I also think that Anderson can def show him things about that leg kick that a tradional Muay Thai fighter like Anderson has is def one Lyoto can practice against....


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

alizio said:


> i still dont understand why ppl think machida will be more aggressive and wont backpedal as much.... thats how he fights, he has never lost a fight, he wont change.
> 
> Let me add, i laughed alot at the ppl predicting Machida via (T)KO in the 1st fight.... and i'll laugh again. Machida rarely knocks ppl out and Shogun NEVER gets knocked out, if anybody is going to sleep it will be Machida.


Neither fighters chin has proved to be anything other than granite. I say it'll go 5 rounds again.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

alizio said:


> i still dont understand why ppl think machida will be more aggressive and wont backpedal as much.... thats how he fights, he has never lost a fight, he wont change.
> 
> Let me add, i laughed alot at the ppl predicting Machida via (T)KO in the 1st fight.... and i'll laugh again. Machida rarely knocks ppl out and Shogun NEVER gets knocked out, if anybody is going to sleep it will be Machida.



Yes he isn't stupid so he will do what he does best, but this is a differnt fight, and i dont see Shogun letting this go to the judges. With that said i think the fight will go to the 3rd round then i think Shogun will see the fight going to Machida and fall into Machida's counters for the TKO either because of the pure pressure and losing the fight to a decision again or by Machida's Game Plan, i say 3rd or 4th round TKO the Champ


And to soojooko i wasn't trying to say Anderson is going to teach him something he doesn't know. But i know 100% sure that when Anderson is coming up with a game plan he is going to be doing his Spider kicks all day long and adjust his game to a lot better Judo Deffence.

And i totally agree with you ColdCall420 I think Machida will be more aggressive but in a differnt way of coarse, i agree that i think he is going to be circling him and finding new effective ways and angles to avoid the kicks and still land effectively. The bottom line is, i think Machida is going to be the one with the better game plan and going off how he won the first fight after getting caught that bad its a no brainer..... But ive been wrong once.......:confused05:


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## Gutz (Aug 16, 2008)

The first match should be fight of 2009, this one should be 2010 =)


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## jmacjer (Mar 23, 2009)

Gutz said:


> The first match should be fight of 2009, this one should be 2010 =)


It was one of the most anticipated matches of 09 for sure. I'm a big fan of both but part of me wants Shogun to pull through just so we can see Anderson fight for the belt.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Fact is Shogun gave Machida too much respect last time, he could've put him away at will in the 4th and 5th rounds. Shogun now knows how to wear down Machida, he knows how to fight Machida, and he knows that Machida's punches don't hurt him. 

In order to get knocked out by Machida, you need to either a) let him punch you in the head 12 times; b) let him knee you in the head 6 times; or c) let him falling-punch you froom stood up while you're led down. Shogun knows not to go rushing into Machida wildly, and he's hardly going to let any of the above happen, but I doubt he's worried about taking a few Machida punches again.

And yes I expect Machida to be better prepared for the next kicking his legs and body are gonna take, but he's not all of a sudden gonna become a Muay Thai master and beat Shogun at his own game. Shogun knows how to set Machida up for the kill, and Machida can't hit hard enough to put Shogun away, and he can't dictate the pace with him. It's gonna be either Shogun by T(KO) or X-person via decision. I always believe anything can happen though, no matter who's fighting who.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

jmacjer said:


> It was one of the most anticipated matches of 09 for sure. I'm a big fan of both but part of me wants Shogun to pull through just so we can see Anderson fight for the belt.


 Honestly i didnt know what made me happier at the conclusion of the 1st fight. Thinking i won $ betting on Shogun or thinking how F'ing good a Anderson vs Shogun matchup would be!!!!!

Gotta be my favorite matchup in all of MMA. The judges not only robbed Shogun imo they robbed the fans of a truely more exciting fight, Anderson wont be as "elusive" and somebody is going to sleep. I just cant fathom which one???


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

One thing we know for sure, Machida probably couldn't knock out Shogun or Silva. Shogun and The Spider are the top two LHW's IMO, hell if I know who'd win.


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## streetpunk08 (Jul 15, 2006)

Shogun's always been a class act, good read. As for the fight, I think both guys are gonna try more to not let it go to the judges obviously but at the same time Machida's game isn't an aggressive style and trying new things out on a calibur of fighter as Shogun is dangerous. When I break down a rematch the thing I come back to is that Machida never came close to having Shogun in any trouble in a 5 round fight, so I dunno why people think he's gonna KO Shogun a guy who's never been KO'd iirc. I don't think Machida can hurt Shogun and I think Shogun knows it because in the 4th and 5th round Shogun really loosened up and looked really confident where Machida was obviously fading. I see Shogun being ultra confident to start the next fight. Either way it's gonna be a good fight, just sucks we have to wait until May to see it.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Yeah Shogun is more at home in a proper fast-paced blood n guts scrap, so if the fight get's like that then I think Machida might get overwhelmed. Which of course goes back to that situation of a fighter who rarely KOs people, trying to put down a fighter who's never slept.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

SM33 said:


> Fact is Shogun gave Machida too much respect last time, he could've put him away at will in the 4th and 5th rounds. Shogun now knows how to wear down Machida, he knows how to fight Machida, and he knows that Machida's punches don't hurt him.
> 
> In order to get knocked out by Machida, you need to either a) let him punch you in the head 12 times; b) let him knee you in the head 6 times; or c) let him falling-punch you froom stood up while you're led down. Shogun knows not to go rushing into Machida wildly, and he's hardly going to let any of the above happen, but I doubt he's worried about taking a few Machida punches again.
> 
> And yes I expect Machida to be better prepared for the next kicking his legs and body are gonna take, but he's not all of a sudden gonna become a Muay Thai master and beat Shogun at his own game. Shogun knows how to set Machida up for the kill, and Machida can't hit hard enough to put Shogun away, and he can't dictate the pace with him. It's gonna be either Shogun by T(KO) or X-person via decision. I always believe anything can happen though, no matter who's fighting who.


 
I see a decision, and I dont see Machida adapting at all to try to become some Muay Thai fighter....he is not, he is a Karate practioner, just like I dont expect to see Rua trying any spinning back kicks or straight kicks...

Machida will do what he always does, he will wait, paitently, and eventually Rua will come forward, exactly what Lyoto is going to do is unknown but you can bet he will be moving alot more to avoid those kicks..he chose....CHOSE to stand and eat them before to counter, most people missed the couinters cuz they were at awe that anyone even was effecting Lyoto.....the reality is you can plan on him incorporating a way to deal with those leg kicks and effectively counter at the same time....

I believe you wwill see the pivots and angles that Machida normally uses more in the 2nd fight than the 1st, the main reason is Lyoto was not ready nor prepared for those kicks and I believe it took alot of his focus to adapt the way he did....

This time one thing you can bet on....he will be ready.....

Machida dropped Silva with one shot the fact he hit the mat and got finished is an after thought, he dropped him with one clean shot....something that Rashad couldnt do, although rashad probably landed like 1-2 solid shots on Thiago....

Def he isnt a one punch wonder fighter but his power is more than enough to compliment his style.....

As far as Machida's punches and Rua "knowing" they wont hurt him, thats pretty rediculous if you saw Rua after their fight he would tell you different, also he spoke at length about the fact that Lyoto did hurt him but he felt he won the fight....:thumbsup:


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

If I remember right Machida didn't punch Silva to the ground, it was a judo throw. Span him round and pushed him to the ground. Not sure though. And I'm quite sure Rua did say Lyoto's punches didn't do much damage.


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## shocktheworld (Dec 14, 2009)

Both men are intelligent and well prepared fighters. I think it will boil down to power. Shogun is the more powerful fighter and you can't teach that. Shogun by GnP TKO.


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## GMK13 (Apr 20, 2009)

i dont see the fight being much different i think shogun will win, again,lol.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

No real predictions here, other than if Machida comes out and throws down immediately, I think that is his best chance of winning. 
His style takes a lot more energy than Shoguns, and I don't think that there is any way he will be as fresh as Shogun late in the fight.

This is a fight I just enjoy and don't really feel like getting on either bandwagon, even though I'm a huge Shogun fan.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

^^^ Ha ha. Thing is, the pressure is on BOTH fighters to not let it go to the judges, and Shogun is better at killing people than Lyoto is! I agree it will boil down to power. I like the way Lyoto fights, it's deceiptively effective, but I think Shogun is simply tougher and more dangerous.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Regardless of who you thought "won," Shogun clearly looked like the faster, more effective and more cardio-enduring fighter that night.


Shogun is the better fighter therefor I am confident in the rematch.


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Regardless of who you thought "won," Shogun clearly looked like the faster, more effective and more cardio-enduring fighter that night.
> 
> 
> Shogun is the better fighter therefor I am confident in the rematch.


Agreed. I think the rematch will be even more convincing. Hopefully Cecil Peoples won't be a judge.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

We'll see another 5-round battle from these two. Machida will win again probably especially if he's 100% and without any injuries like the last time.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

I have no ideea how the rematch will look like.
All i hope is, it's gonna be a good, clean fight.
it coud end up very tachtical at the beggining of the fight, because now, they know each other better and they respect each other more than in the first fight.

I could see Shogun using his leg kicks in this fight like he did in the first fight, but trying to use more kick-punch combination. As for Machida, he should be more agressive.

One thing tho. I would love to see some ground action. It would be interesting. In the first fight Machida didn't seem to eager on wanting the fight on the ground.


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

limba said:


> I have no ideea how the rematch will look like.
> All i hope is, it's gonna be a good, clean fight.
> it coud end up very tachtical at the beggining of the fight, because now, they know each other better and they respect each other more than in the first fight.
> 
> ...


Well I am already pulling for shogun, but if this fight goes to the ground I am giving this fight to Shogun forsure. He is too much on the ground for Machida to handle.


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## SSD (Aug 8, 2009)

The only way Shogun wins is via decision. That gameplan of his was good but then again, too cautious to finish the fight. Machida, on the other hand, will probably come in to neutralize Shogun's leg kicks, which seemed to be the only significant weapon of Shogun's that Machida couldn't provide an answer for. 

As far as the match itself, I am stoked since its in Montreal and although I hope it will tear the house down, I see it being a bore-fest with a victory either by decision or in the last round. Shogun is probably going to be too cautious once again and Machida lack the KO power or strike combination to put Shogun to sleep.



limba said:


> One thing tho. I would love to see some ground action. It would be interesting. In the first fight Machida didn't seem to eager on wanting the fight on the ground.


I agree about Machida again wanting to keep the fight standing next time but I doubt the fight will go to the ground. The first time, Machida showed textbook TDD and Shogun really lacked the wrestling ability. That's the thing Shogun needs to work on--hell, that what every Chute Boxe alumni needs to work on.


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## Cptmats (Dec 27, 2009)

BrianRClover said:


> I welcome anyone to quote me on this one. This fight will end the way most people thought the first one was going to. It's going to be a rough night for Shogun.


Agreed :thumbsup:



jmacjer said:


> It was one of the most anticipated matches of 09 for sure. I'm a big fan of both but part of me wants Shogun to pull through just so we can see Anderson fight for the belt.


I wouldnt give him much of a chance Against Silva, he's been out struck by lesser strikers and i doubt his ground game is any better !



SM33 said:


> If I remember right Machida didn't punch Silva to the ground, it was a judo throw. Span him round and pushed him to the ground. Not sure though. And I'm quite sure Rua did say Lyoto's punches didn't do much damage.


When the fight ended it was a foot sweep that put him down and a punch that put him out, but Machida did drop him earlier in the round.



khoveraki said:


> I'm going to just assume you were drunk when you said this...:confused05:
> 
> Anderson Silva has never faced a top-tier striker. However, Shogun has outboxed Lil Nog, out-struck Overeem (twice), WALKED THROUGH Rampage on the feet, KO'd Chuck Liddell, and outstruck Lyoto Machida 2-1.
> 
> ...


Not drunk
Actually Little Nog took him apart standing, all shogun could do was take him down.Shogun took mass punches in this fight and landed very little. And as far as Arona They never made it to the ground !


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Avoid double or triple posting, edit your post instead. Thanks.


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## T.Bone (Oct 15, 2008)

Definately backing Shogun this time round, although I think Machida will win more convincingly this time.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Intermission said:


> Agreed. I think the rematch will be even more convincing. Hopefully Cecil Peoples won't be a judge.


Lets remember that it was Hammilton who awarded Machida round 4, which was by far the most dodgy decision by any of the judges that night. Peoples gave Lyoto the first 3 rounds, which I found far more agreeable.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Cptmats said:


> Agreed :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldnt give him much of a chance Against Silva, he's been out struck by lesser strikers and i doubt his ground game is any better !


I'm going to just assume you were drunk when you said this...:confused05:

Anderson Silva has never faced a top-tier striker. However, Shogun has outboxed Lil Nog, out-struck Overeem (twice), WALKED THROUGH Rampage on the feet, KO'd Chuck Liddell, and outstruck Lyoto Machida 2-1.

When Silva was losing at 170, Shogun was clearing house at 205. Silva faces his first prime striker in Vitor at UFC 112, so we'll see what happens then. But I'd still give Lil Nog the striking edge over Vitor and Shogun dropped him standing.

As far as ground game, this is a dude who manhandled Ricardo Arona, he's a BJJ world champion.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> I'm going to just assume you were drunk when you said this...:confused05:
> 
> Anderson Silva has never faced a top-tier striker. However, Shogun has outboxed Lil Nog, out-struck Overeem (twice), WALKED THROUGH Rampage on the feet, KO'd Chuck Liddell, and outstruck Lyoto Machida 2-1.
> 
> ...


Lil Nog dropped him too :thumb02:


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Xerxes said:


> Lil Nog dropped him too :thumb02:


True dat!

Lil Nog vs Shogun def should have made top 25 fights to show a new fan.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Definitely yeah.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> I'm going to just assume you were drunk when you said this...:confused05:
> 
> Anderson Silva has never faced a top-tier striker. However, Shogun has outboxed Lil Nog, out-struck Overeem (twice), WALKED THROUGH Rampage on the feet, KO'd Chuck Liddell, and outstruck Lyoto Machida 2-1.
> 
> ...


 
Do you mean 185??? Plus I def think Anderson could stand with Shogun and i would be shocked the if the heavens fell and hell flamed up and Shogun actually beats Machida for once, then Anderson possibly may be interested in fighting Shogun, i mean at the en of the day we talked about Lyoto and Anderson....what has Anderson been jumping between weights for???? I think he would love a shot at Rua under those circumstaces....

It will never happen....Machida wins...again....:thumbsup:


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

This fight will end in a KO. But I'm not sure from who. But it will definitely end with someone going to sleep


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Terror Kovenant said:


> This fight will end in a KO. But I'm not sure from who. But it will definitely end with someone going to sleep


 
I'll bet you 20105 credits it doent.....


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Do you mean 185??? Plus I def think Anderson could stand with Shogun and i would be shocked the if the heavens fell and hell flamed up and Shogun actually beats Machida for once, then Anderson possibly may be interested in fighting Shogun, i mean at the en of the day we talked about Lyoto and Anderson....what has Anderson been jumping between weights for???? I think he would love a shot at Rua under those circumstaces....
> 
> It will never happen....Machida wins...again....:thumbsup:


IMO he'll dodge and duck Rua and most of the other great strikers at 205 are his friends. I'd bet my house he never tries to get a fight with him, why risk his legacy by fighting the best striker he will have faced in his career... at the end of his career especially. 

And nah I meant 170, back when Silva fought Chonnen it was at 170 wasn't it?


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## PunchUintheFace (Jan 1, 2010)

Wow it's amazing how some still think Machida will win decisely. I wouldn't go so far to say that someone walking out of the octagon with a limp won decisely the last time. Let's face it as much as a Machida fan I was, Shogun literally picked him apart in their last fight. I thoguht it could go either way the last time, now Im leaning more towards Shogun. Due to one thing : their mentality going into this fight. Shogun is going to come in confident as ever along with a clear mind of determination this time to seal the deal with anger even because he felt he got robbed. Machida I think will have the weaker mind set. For one, he was repeatedly hit at will in their last fight, that's going to be bothering him the whole fight as how to aviod being hit & doing something new to counter or change that in hopes that it'll work. That I just can't see happening over night as his bread & butter is evading & countering. I truely don't think any good fighter would want to abandon their comfort zone and try new thing. For example like a toe to toe in your face fight with Shogun? I don't think you'd wanna get "chute boxe" with Shogun. And of course second, he is the champ he has to do good & look good to stay revelant as a true champ as practically the whole mma world already wrote him off as a paper champ after the last fight. The pressure's more on him. Take for example Rampage beating Chuck at his prime 9 out of 10 times. It was all confidence coming from Rampage. He whoop chuck's ass pretty bad in Pride, knowing he'd do the same in UFC again & again.


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## Jord -Jitsu (Nov 3, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> IMO he'll dodge and duck Rua and most of the other great strikers at 205 are his friends. I'd bet my house he never tries to get a fight with him, why risk his legacy by fighting the best striker he will have faced in his career... at the end of his career especially.
> 
> And nah I meant 170, back when Silva fought Chonnen it was at 170 wasn't it?


I don't think Anderson would try ans dodge Rua and personally I think Anderson is a better striker, jmo. However you do raise a good point about him not having fought a top tier striker, I hadn't noticed this before.

I would love to see this fight and I hope it does happen for everyone's sake.


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## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

As much as I would love to say this fight will end in a spectacular KO/TKO, I seriously doubt it.

I betted against Shogun in their first fight due to the reasons that Machida might prove too elusive at times. Sure, I was wrong in alot of aspects. I still have Shogun winning the fight. But it's mainly because Machida didn't adjust at all to any of Shogun's attacks. As much as I want Shogun to get the belt he deserves, I have a gut feeling that Machida will win(Simply because he has all the tools to beat Shogun).

It might be a shock to everyone but Shogun's techniques isn't cut out to beat Machida. He will never be able to take Machida to the ground. I wouldn't be surprised if the fight ends up almost identical to the last fight with Machida again winning on points in the judges' eyes.

Shogun's only weapon is striking in this fight. Alot of people might say "If he was only aggressive enough" but here's the facts. He would have gotten brutally beaten if he was to charge in against Machida(Thiago Silva for example). His only gameplan is what he did in their first fight, which is to patiently strike and not get too aggressive. This is why I believe it'll end up the same way. Shogun won the fight in my eyes but it'll always be scored towards Machida. Sorry..

I hope I am proven wrong by this as alot of people seem to act like Machida is god-like. Also I'd like to add that I'd very much like to see Anderson Silva vs Shogun for the LHW title since we won't see Machida vs Silva anytime soon.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

I think Machida will be much better prepared for this fight than he was the last, last time round Machida look sluggish and un-properly prepared, he did not have that usual bounce in his step and speed of reaction that he showed in his run to become champion, and after just one bad fight I am surprised how much credibility he lost after what I agree was a bad decision by the judges.

Some say he lost his step due to leg kicks given by Rua, but even then you would expect an in form Machida to of checked those kicks, but my initial thought was that maybe he was not committed to his training leading up to the fight, I felt that maybe since winning the belt that in his mind he had accomplished what he set out to do and as a result his motivation to prepare for the fight had been effected on top of dealing with the celebrity status he earned when he beat Evans I feel these factors combined effected his commitment to training and that this showed when he entered the ring.

Having said that I think that his last fight would of opened his eyes to this situation, and after the let off he was gifted by the judges he will learn from this and not make the same mistake again.

All this been considered I think we will next time see the Machida that made him champion and if we see that I can't see Rua been able to stop him.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Some say he lost his step due to leg kicks given by Rua, but even then you would expect an in form Machida to of checked those kicks,


I don't think we've ever seen Machida check a kick before, that's certainly no indication that he was unhealthy. And if you saw all the pre-fight and the interviews, both Machida and Shogun were pretty much as healthy as you can get going into the fight.

Machida's stance makes it harder to check kicks I'd think as the angles are all wrong for it, and even if it wasn't Shogun has probably the fastest, hardest kicks since Bas Rutten.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I can't wait for this fight, hope Machida takes it.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

PunchUintheFace said:


> Wow it's amazing how some still think Machida will win decisely. I wouldn't go so far to say that someone walking out of the octagon with a limp won decisely the last time. Let's face it as much as a Machida fan I was, Shogun literally picked him apart in their last fight. I thoguht it could go either way the last time, now Im leaning more towards Shogun. Due to one thing : their mentality going into this fight. Shogun is going to come in confident as ever along with a clear mind of determination this time to seal the deal with anger even because he felt he got robbed. Machida I think will have the weaker mind set. For one, he was repeatedly hit at will in their last fight, that's going to be bothering him the whole fight as how to aviod being hit & doing something new to counter or change that in hopes that it'll work. That I just can't see happening over night as his bread & butter is evading & countering. I truely don't think any good fighter would want to abandon their comfort zone and try new thing. For example like a toe to toe in your face fight with Shogun? I don't think you'd wanna get "chute boxe" with Shogun. And of course second, he is the champ he has to do good & look good to stay revelant as a true champ as practically the whole mma world already wrote him off as a paper champ after the last fight. The pressure's more on him. Take for example Rampage beating Chuck at his prime 9 out of 10 times. It was all confidence coming from Rampage. He whoop chuck's ass pretty bad in Pride, knowing he'd do the same in UFC again & again.





Notoriousxpinoy said:


> As much as I would love to say this fight will end in a spectacular KO/TKO, I seriously doubt it.
> 
> I betted against Shogun in their first fight due to the reasons that Machida might prove too elusive at times. Sure, I was wrong in alot of aspects. I still have Shogun winning the fight. But it's mainly because Machida didn't adjust at all to any of Shogun's attacks. As much as I want Shogun to get the belt he deserves, I have a gut feeling that Machida will win(Simply because he has all the tools to beat Shogun).
> 
> ...





KillerShark1985 said:


> I think Machida will be much better prepared for this fight than he was the last, last time round Machida look sluggish and un-properly prepared, he did not have that usual bounce in his step and speed of reaction that he showed in his run to become champion, and after just one bad fight I am surprised how much credibility he lost after what I agree was a bad decision by the judges.
> 
> Some say he lost his step due to leg kicks given by Rua, but even then you would expect an in form Machida to of checked those kicks, but my initial thought was that maybe he was not committed to his training leading up to the fight, I felt that maybe since winning the belt that in his mind he had accomplished what he set out to do and as a result his motivation to prepare for the fight had been effected on top of dealing with the celebrity status he earned when he beat Evans I feel these factors combined effected his commitment to training and that this showed when he entered the ring.
> 
> ...


 

IMO...Machida will be more ready and have even more to prove. I guess it comes down to your perception of the fighter. Bottom line is Lyoto won that fight....Period, no one said decisively, but he won it.....Will he totally change his style no, i agree with you there, but he will be more aggressive....lets not forget that he stood there and took those leg kicks by choice, if you think he couldnt have been alot more elusive and avoided them(boring fight) then your wrong, he chose to to enable him to counter.....with the broken hand.....throw in the fact that he broke his hand five days before the fight and still fought makes me further believe people are counting out the champ...


Im sure the haters and the hype surronding the last fight isnt motivation for Lyoto to solidify his crown and make people know he is the best 205er....

Also, I think Shogun obviously will adapt as well, however Lyoto knows what Rua has and Rua hasnt felt all lyoto's power, not saying he has 1 shot K/O power but he will knock you out if its there....I know rashad he hit alot, well Thiago he dropped multiple times and he was basically flat when he dropped him then K/O'd him on the mat....

Lyoto via decision.....


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Well I think I speak for a lot of people when I say I prefer a champ who (or at least tries to)annihilate all his competion until he himself is annihilated, rather than a champ who masters the art of eeking out a decision. Just doesn't seem belt-worthy. Either way, he won the belt decisively and for now is the champ.

On the subject of A.Silva/Rua/Lyoto, I think it does take the piss a bit that Lyoto and Silva won't fight. If I had the belt and one of my long-time training partners was a top 5 contender, I'd say bring it on let's see who's better and who deserves the belt. Doesn't mean you can't be friends anymore, it's just a competitive bout in the sport you both compete in. To me when I see the respect Lyoto has for Silva, it's the type of respect that say's "He'd beat me". I bet Shogun and Wanderlai would fight.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

many of the same ppl that said machida would walk thru shogun the 1st time around and it wouldnt even be competitive are now predicting a competitive fight just one machida wins again?? Prepare to be wrong and disappointed again  Machida will still eat the leg kicks but i bet Shogun is gonna throw alot of fakes and body/head shots aswell this time around. Machida didnt just "Choose" to eat those leg kicks, they come fast, quick and with little telegraph, he ate them cuz his stance forces him to. Shogun has some of the best leg kicks in the biz and he isnt just gonna suddenly neutralize it. He is better off countering. 

Only difference i see is Shogun wont let Machida off the hook in the championship rounds this time around, he will push the pace late and his cardio looked pretty damn impressive last fight. Machida is the one that needs to adjust, something he really hasnt proven he can do, we all know Shogun can be much more aggressive to the point of Wanderlei aggression.

Everybody fights Machidas fight, i mean EVERYBODY, Shogun is gonna change that a bit if he has Machida doing anything different then usual i consider it a good thing, he is gonna get him out of his comfort zone (again) and i think the mind games lean towards Shogun atm, he feels he won anyways he is just too classy to make a big stink about it, he is gonna go prove it now. Machida has to be feeling vulnerable like never before after that 1st fight, he had little to nothing left in the 4th and 5th and was very lucky Shogun and his ppl thought he was ahead enough to coast (a mistake no doubt). He left that fight a bit hurt and humbled, the mystique didnt work for him in that fight, somebody found a way to take the fight to him and he seemed to have no answer so now i would assume he is searching for answers which may be his downfall.

JMO of course, what do i know anyways, i thought Shogun won the 1st fight decisively


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## Ruckus (Oct 2, 2009)

IMO the thing that makes this rematch so good is that the first fight went either way, depending on how you saw the fight. I am COMPLETELY ready for the rematch already and we will still have four months to discuss this fight. 

I think Machida's game plan in the first fight was to eat those leg kicks, NOT check, and counter punch. Problem with that is Rua's chin, let alone the damage taken from said leg kicks. I am fairly certain that his gameplan will change, not so much his style, just adapting his style to counter that of Rua. 

I could also see Rua being more aggressive this time around. JMO, but I really haven't seen the kind of aggression unleashed by Rua like he did in Pride. In order for him to beat Machida I think he needs to unleash hell, which he is more than capable of doing. 

In the end however I foresee a great stand up battle which will be won by the fighter who does the most damage. That fighter will be Machida.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Well I can't see Machida doing more damage, but he does land more shots. In the few exchanges in the first fight, for every 2 or 3 shots Machida landed, Shogun landed a very hard counter. I'm not sure Machida has ever properly done someone over, whereas Shogun has really kicked the shit out of people. I'm not sure in numbers of who landed the most shots last time (punches), but Machida was a lot more beaten up. So if it does come down to a less technical slugfest with the winner being whoever deals the most damage, again I would back Rua. For every counter-combination that Machida put on Rua, he recieved one or two shots which really rocked him, and Rua wasn't being rocked by the combinations.


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## Ruckus (Oct 2, 2009)

SM33 said:


> Well I can't see Machida doing more damage, but he does land more shots. In the few exchanges in the first fight, for every 2 or 3 shots Machida landed, Shogun landed a very hard counter. I'm not sure Machida has ever properly done someone over, whereas Shogun has really kicked the shit out of people. *I'm not sure in numbers of who landed the most shots last time (punches), but Machida was a lot more beaten up.* So if it does come down to a less technical slugfest with the winner being whoever deals the most damage, again I would back Rua. For every counter-combination that Machida put on Rua, he recieved one or two shots which really rocked him, and Rua wasn't being rocked by the combinations.


Rua landed more shots, (legs and punches) therefore he did more damage, in the first fight. Rua landed slightly more head punches while Machida landed a majority in body blows. One cannot discount the damage done by body blows. Also if my memory serves me correctly, the commentators made a big deal about the "reddness" in Machida's midsection. This was undeniable however Rua too had 'reddness' in his mid section. 

I don't see a slug fest, although it should be a stand up war. If Machida nullifies the leg kicks, which I think he does, he will land more strikes, therefore doing more damage.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Yeah what I meant was I think Rua hits quite a bit harder in general, so would probably do more damage even if he landed less shots. 

How do you think Lyoto will deal with the kicks? Rua will almost certainly use them knowing how effective they were last time. I think Lyoto's stance makes it hard to check kicks and keep balance, so checking a kick and countering straight away is pretty unlikely unless he adapts his stance. His defence last time was to pivot away from the kick but most of them landed.

And yes Rua took some good knees to the body, both fighters were pretty raw by the 3rd.


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## Ruckus (Oct 2, 2009)

SM33 said:


> Yeah what I meant was I think Rua hits quite a bit harder in general, so would probably do more damage even if he landed less shots.
> 
> How do you think Lyoto will deal with the kicks? Rua will almost certainly use them knowing how effective they were last time. I think Lyoto's stance makes it hard to check kicks and keep balance, so checking a kick and countering straight away is pretty unlikely unless he adapts his stance. His defence last time was to pivot away from the kick but most of them landed.
> 
> And yes Rua took some good knees to the body, both fighters were pretty raw by the 3rd.


I don't think Machida changes his style at all. He just uses his skill set a little more effectively and doesn't choose to eat all those leg kicks (they are simply nasty, a lesser man would be cripple after all that punishment). I see a more effective circle and pivot to avoid them, as well as a more aggressive version of his style. The only other counter I can think of is to utilize his own leg kicks. Rua will obviously have a new game plan as well, yet early on in the fight I see him using the leg kicks because it was so effective in the first fight. I just don't think he is going to be as effective with them this time around and will have to come in and be more aggressive, which falls into Machida's strength and allows him to inflict more damage.


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## rushStPierre (Nov 22, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> "Thank God I could annul his game, but unfortunately I could not win the belt."
> 
> This line says it all. Shogun was thankful he could close down Lyotos game, but couldn't do anything to actually hurt him. Pure respect to Shugun for the respect shown to the champion.


couldnt do anything to actually hurt him? 

what tainted hash is down this guys pipe


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Unbelievably stoked. Even more so because I'll likely be attending the event. So many questions. What will Lyoto's new game-plan be? What new tricks will Shogun throw at Machida so as to keep him guessing? Will Machida be more aggressive with his attacks? And for that matter, will Shogun, who no doubt wants to avoid a decision? I'll be rooting for Shogun, despite also being a fan of Machida. Purely because I want to witness the insane numbers that a Silva vs. Rua super-fight will pull if and when the bout is arranged. And for that to happen, Shogun must win.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Machida doesn't posses a lot of KO power. I think Shogun's game plan will be to out-point and tire him until round 5. Then in round 5 Machida will be more tired (his style uses more energy) and will posses even less KO power, so Rua will be free to be aggressive and finish him without risking the flash KO.


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## UFC on VHS (Dec 16, 2008)

KryOnicle said:


> Will be a totally different fight this time around. Some one completely destroys the other. I honoustly can't call which. All I know is this fight will give a lot of answers.
> 
> Both will be alot more aggressive this time.


I also think this I don't think the rematch will go to a decision.

It's going to end, and it's going to be epic.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

rushStPierre said:


> couldnt do anything to actually hurt him?
> 
> what tainted hash is down this guys pipe


 
Machida was not able to walk in the 4th and 5th but Shogun didn't finish him, thats what he means....

This fight will not be the same and Lyoto wont have a broken hand going in and I assure you those leg kicks are not something he's just gonna fight Rua again and not be prepped for....


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## swmnbjjATT (Jan 6, 2010)

Shogun is going to have a better game plan. He now knows what the judges are looking for as far as for points but i think shogun will KO him this time. He was to much for machida last time and the same with happen again.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> Shogun is going to have a better game plan. He now knows what the judges are looking for as far as for points but i think shogun will KO him this time. He was to much for machida last time and the same with happen again.


I don't know, rematches are not always identical and sometimes are even absolutely different.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

If I was Shogun I'd repeat the first 2 or 3 rounds from the first fight and wear him down a bit, Machida will be thinking 'Yes I can definitely ride this out again', throw a fake leg kick and then BAM go into beserker mode, give him a hard 1-2 and take him to the ground where I overwhelm him, and my strength would be a good enough defense. Or even wait for Machida to go on the offense, cus in the first bout Shogun was finding holes in Machida's attacks and was landing in them. When it's close quarters, get the Muay Thai clinch and it's murder time. Either way I expect this to happen:


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

SM33 said:


> If I was Shogun I'd repeat the first 2 or 3 rounds from the first fight and wear him down a bit, Machida will be thinking 'Yes I can definitely ride this out again', throw a fake leg kick and then BAM go into beserker mode, give him a hard 1-2 and take him to the ground where I overwhelm him, and my strength would be a good enough defense. Or even wait for Machida to go on the offense, cus in the first bout Shogun was finding holes in Machida's attacks and was landing in them. When it's close quarters, get the Muay Thai clinch and it's murder time. Either way I expect this to happen:


 
LOL then you would lose again.....cuz he lost those rounds....Im at my office for a bit when i get home Im gonna post a few pics for myself as this is now geting silly....I'll show u machida in action against Shogun and all the shots he didnt land:confused05:


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Machida had been the same fighter for several fights before Shogun. Nobody could beat his style so he stuck with it. Shogun figured it out by watching those old fights. His gameplan was solid.

However...

If Machida has made changes to his style, there will be no evidence of this until fight night. All Shogun and Machida can do is try and predict what the other is going to do = impossible. Shogun must know that Machida will be ready for the kicks. Machida knows that Shogun knows this... and on we go.

In a nutshell, a gameplan for the second fight based on speculation is dangerous. Shoguns last gameplan was based on evidence from Machidas previous fights. If either fighter comes in assuming the opponent will be the same dude, they will lose.

My moneys on Machida coming out on top again.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

LMAO There's a lot more pics of Shogun hitting Machida than t'other way round :confused03: It gets silly but you love it :sarcastic12:

Soojooko is right, it's an endless game of prediction, I wouldn't mind seeing a ground-based battle and see how Machida fares there, I'm sure Shogun would finish what Ortiz started.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)




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## Cptmats (Dec 27, 2009)

awsome pics ! shogun may have solved the machida riddel but did nothing even close enough to warrent taking a champions belt, machida gave as well as he took !


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Those were some great pictures.

IDK if it's freckles or what, but Shogun looks very broken out.


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## ScouseMMAfan (Jan 7, 2010)

I think Rua takes it heres why, I believe machida does not have the power in his hands to knock out rua it shows in the first fight were i think it was second round machida pushed for a part similiar to the rashad fight he fought he had rua hurt but rua ate the punches and threw a right of his own which machida felt causing him to clinch.

Ok i see as this unless machida lands a perfectly timed kick to rua's head and has him hurt or koed i believe there is no other way for machida to finish it although i could see him grinding out another decision like the first fight but i see the chances will be very slim as both fighters wouldnt want another decision.

Rua tko Rnd 3


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

ScouseMMAfan said:


> I think Rua takes it heres why, I believe machida does not have the power in his hands to knock out rua it shows in the first fight were i think it was second round machida pushed for a part similiar to the rashad fight he fought he had rua hurt but rua ate the punches and threw a right of his own which machida felt causing him to clinch.
> 
> Ok i see as this unless machida lands a perfectly timed kick to rua's head and has him hurt or koed i believe there is no other way for machida to finish it although i could see him grinding out another decision like the first fight but i see the chances will be very slim as both fighters wouldnt want another decision.
> 
> Rua tko Rnd 3


He def isn't gonna knock Lyoto out, the fight will have a ton of movement, can say how it will go round by round but expect Machida to be able to address the leg kicks only an idiot wouldn't adjust for them, also expect Shogun to have a different game i believe it will start slow then get really good, but i see a decision....for my boy, his legs are going to be working all 5 rounds this time and his hand isn't gonna be broken going into the fight....that right there will make a major difference....:thumbsup:


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Shogun will win the rematch. Look for him to push the pace more and catch Lyoto. I see this fight ending in the 3rd or 4th round via KO (TKO) for Shogun. Everyone knows that Machida is a slow paced fighter, and he loves to capitalize on people being agressive but I think that Shogun can be agressive and push the pace without Machida catching him. That's just my opinion, and NO COLDCALL, just because Machida is getting leg kicked by Andy every day at Black House does not mean he will be ready for Shoguns! :laugh:


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Stokes said:


> Shogun will win the rematch. Look for him to push the pace more and catch Lyoto. I see this fight ending in the 3rd or 4th round via KO (TKO) for Shogun. Everyone knows that Machida is a slow paced fighter, and he loves to capitalize on people being agressive but I think that Shogun can be agressive and push the pace without Machida catching him. That's just my opinion, and NO COLDCALL, just because Machida is getting leg kicked by Andy every day at Black House does not mean he will be ready for Shoguns! :laugh:


 

Dont think that Rua will only come with those leg kicks also dont assume Machida's game will be the same as before, it wont.....he will have an answer for the leg kicks, he wins again...just ask your doll.... Now that shit is funny....


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

LMAO dude, Machida has had the same gameplan for every one of his fights. He comes out with the same pace every time, I would pay top dollar to see him come out with an aggressive gameplan and push the pace in a fight. If he fought like Rampage, he would suck because his punches are weak and he isn't really that fast he relies on his kicks too much and Shogun is more well rounded, and this time around he will f him up. Admit it. 

P.S. Only 24 more days of this rediculous avatar.


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## Cptmats (Dec 27, 2009)

Stokes said:


> LMAO dude, Machida has had the same gameplan for every one of his fights. He comes out with the same pace every time, I would pay top dollar to see him come out with an aggressive gameplan and push the pace in a fight. If he fought like Rampage, he would suck because his punches are weak and he isn't really that fast he relies on his kicks too much and Shogun is more well rounded, and this time around he will f him up. Admit it.
> 
> P.S. Only 24 more days of this rediculous avatar.


lol. some of this may be true if someone had ever actually beaten machida...but it hasnt happen .shogun matched him, thats as close as any one has ever come and I dont see it happening twice !machida dosnt have shoguns power but he still rocked him with clean punches........machida , stoppage, strikes !


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

Those pictures are freakin awesome! Good post CC!


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Huge LOL at the suggestion that either of these two will knock the other out. Did you watch the first fight? Both these feckers got hit with some serious blows and barely wobbled. 

I'm completely with CC420 : Machida is going to use his legs A LOT. He had some awesome success taking out Shoguns knees in round 3 of the last fight, but as stated before, he couldn't walk in rounds 4 and 5 for all the damage Shogun had already caused to his legs. I see Machida coming out and feeling his way a bit more rather than getting caught so often. His gameplan was so solid for the previous 5 fights that it took him a while to accept it wasn't working. By the time he changed his game to hurt Shogun the damage was already done and he had no spring left. The last two rounds were more about damage limitation from Lyoto.

There is no way hes going to eat those kicks again. Theres no way Shogun will think that either. Its going to be a long and great fight. For the record, I thought the first fight was fight of the year. I enjoyed it a bunch.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

You do realise that in half those pics, they're not clean shots. Look at poor Lyoto's squashed up face in my pic, that's a clean shot. Your second pic catches the moment just before Shogun lands the hardest kick in the fight, nice photo.

The fact that Rua 'only matched him' is to his advantage now, he knows how to beat him and knows what risks he can/can't take. 

CC no offense mate but are you completely deluded? Machida did not go into that fight with a broken hand, he reckons he injured it DURING the fight. And the fact that a Machida interview posted here a few days ago showed him with a full arm brace is such a sympathy seek it's unreal - a broken arm only needs 4-6 weeks in a cast.

I don't know who is going to win the rematch or how it's going to end, but you are in serious denial if you think Machida hurt Rua in the first fight. I agree Soojooko, it was one of the best fights of the year no matter how controversial and I don't think a KO is likely in the second either, but if the fight was not timed and had to end in a KO, I would pick Shogun for the win.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Machida Karate said:


> All i know is that Shogun came in the last fight like a hidden assassin with those leg kicks, he knew that Machida's style is a counter aggressive if you watch his Machida Karate DVD's He has one leg out forward because he is able to set up the leg kicks to the head and body easily and he can go in and out of the pocket a lot faster, so that would mean he is able to back up faster when attacked and then go in for the counter, and pick apart openings quicker. But Shogun and his training team saw how Machida would always keep that leg there and pop in and out of the pocket picking apart every fighter with Knees to the Body or a black belt Judo throw or takedown, or just clean shots and leg kicks like there gabs. So Shogun knowing this if you watch the fight a million times like i have. Machida would act like he was going to move forward and Shogun would throw everything he had to the body or leg, and 40% of the time Machida did attack and took a leg/body shot EVERYTIME, and Shogun wasn't going to get tired of throwing those leg kicks seeing the damage is was doing, so everytime he thought Machida was coming in his pocket he would instinctively just throw a leg kick with everything he got, smart Judo, and after that third round is when i saw Machida's whole style change. Because the damage at that point was to much, he was like limping and lost all movement and kicks... Machida without kicks is like Frank Mir without his submissions, and after that 3rd round Shogun did what no other before him could, beating Machida 2 rounds in a row after never losing a round.... This rematch is going to be the fruits of Machida's Labor and it will a completely differnt fight with Machida as the Champ! Its like Anderson Silva said after these next few months Machida is going to have the best leg kick defence in all MMA, not that Shogun is going to be stupid enough to just do the same thing obviously but at the same time those kicks is ALL he really landed the whole fight........


Holy runaway paragraph batman... I doubt anyone has the attention span to read more than 10 words of that.


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## Stonewall44 (Oct 19, 2006)

What cracks me up in this thread is how matter of factly some people are with what's definitely gonna happen and what definitely isn't.
Regardless of who you are rooting for, at least come to terms with the fact that the pics posted of Shogun landing on Machida, completely blow Machida's pics landing on Shogun way out of the water.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

This is the most unpredictable fight ever.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

SM33 said:


> This is the most unpredictable fight ever.


Is that your prediction?


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> Huge LOL at the suggestion that either of these two will knock the other out. Did you watch the first fight? Both these feckers got hit with some serious blows and barely wobbled.
> 
> I'm completely with CC420 : Machida is going to use his legs A LOT. He had some awesome success taking out Shoguns knees in round 3 of the last fight, but as stated before, he couldn't walk in rounds 4 and 5 for all the damage Shogun had already caused to his legs. I see Machida coming out and feeling his way a bit more rather than getting caught so often. His gameplan was so solid for the previous 5 fights that it took him a while to accept it wasn't working. By the time he changed his game to hurt Shogun the damage was already done and he had no spring left. The last two rounds were more about damage limitation from Lyoto.
> 
> There is no way hes going to eat those kicks again. Theres no way Shogun will think that either. Its going to be a long and great fight. For the record, I thought the first fight was fight of the year. I enjoyed it a bunch.


 i dont see how its ridiculous to think Shogun may KO Machida, you have a guy wioth 18 wins, 15 via (t)ko and a guy who really has never had his chin tested in a big way. We all watched that fight and even tho i think Shogun won he never really caught Machida with KO type punches or power in his head. He could have really pressed the last couple rounds when Machida was less mobile but his corner had him thinking it was in the bag. I think this time he will go for a finish and i see no reason to think Machida cant be knocked out. You saying that is like the many ppl that laughed at the idea of Shogun even challenging Machida...... not so funny now. Or the ppl that laughed when some Machida fans said he would KO Rashad. Machida KOd an undefeated fighter who had never been rocked and Machida isnt known for his power. I dont see how a guy with one of the highest KO percentages in MMA has no chance to KO him.


IMO it is Machida that has little to no chance of winning by (t)ko, Shogun has taken bigger shots from more powerful guys many times and he has never been knocked out, unless he wastes too much energy and leaves himself open to 10 unanswered shots ala Rashad i really dont see a way that happens. If Machida wins, guaranteed it will be a decision.

Machida doesnt have an iron chin, he just never gets hit in the face. That might change in May. The one big shot he took after he flurried in on Shogun (he took a big counter right hand if ppl remember) backed him off and had him moving back for awhile, he def felt the power and wanted none of trading shot for shot in the head with Shogun.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

@Alizio
That shot Machida ate after his flurry was magnificent. I would say both the punch and Machidas reaction highlights just how elite these two are. That punch was the strike of the fight and packed enough power to drop a donkey. The photo with Lyotos putty face also shows some serious power. Just because Machida ate them, you cant then downplay them as not "KO type punches or power in his head". Obviously they are not KO power... they didn't knock him out. Would have knocked the fook outta many others I'm sure.

All I ever wanted out of the first fight was for it to be competitive. In that sense, it was a truly awesome fight. All I want is for it to be competitive again. That would rock regardless of outcome.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> @Alizio
> That shot Machida ate after his flurry was magnificent. I would say both the punch and Machidas reaction highlights just how elite these two are. That punch was the strike of the fight and packed enough power to drop a donkey. The photo with Lyotos putty face also shows some serious power. Just because Machida ate them, you cant then downplay them as not "KO type punches or power in his head". Obviously they are not KO power... they didn't knock him out. Would have knocked the fook outta many others I'm sure.
> 
> All I ever wanted out of the first fight was for it to be competitive. In that sense, it was a truly awesome fight. All I want is for it to be competitive again. That would rock regardless of outcome.


 i agree with that and i expect it to be competitive.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Ha ha that is my prediction Soojooko and I stick by it and I am right! I predict this fight is too unpredictable to predict.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

SM33 said:


> You do realise that in half those pics, they're not clean shots. Look at poor Lyoto's squashed up face in my pic, that's a clean shot. Your second pic catches the moment just before Shogun lands the hardest kick in the fight, nice photo.
> 
> The fact that Rua 'only matched him' is to his advantage now, he knows how to beat him and knows what risks he can/can't take.
> 
> ...


 

Here SM33 this is from my deluded ass:

http://www.fiveknuckles.com/mma-new...-on-Rua-fight-starts-training-in-January.html




> However, he was forced to settle for a May rematch instead after Machida revealed that he had undergone surgery days after the fight to repair an injured hand he suffered in training. Apparently, Machida had admirably fought with the injury rather than call off the match up.


 
Yeah man Im totally deluded, why dont you start posting some sources before you label people especially whan you have no clue what your talking about in reality, read some of Sookoo posts and learn.....One squashed up face terrific great pic, mine state the cae simply.....
Machida def hurt Rua in the first fight Rua stated he felt his power...Im not goingf to waste my time posting pics of Shoguns messed up face, it has already been done on countless threads....now digest my delusion....:thumbsdown:


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

> There were rumblings of adding Machida vs. Rua 2 to the main card of UFC 108 on January 2; however, Yahoo Sports is now reporting that Machida will require surgery on his hand to repair damaged sustained in the five round battle against Rua.


http://www.mmamania.com/2009/10/31/...-postpone-ufc-104-rematch-against-shogun-rua/



> “It’s time to celebrate the win and relax from the hard training routine,” he said. “After that I will check what happened to my hand (it’s hurt), if it needs some surgery, then analyze my mistakes in this fight carefully with my family to restart my training routine


 - ***FROM THE MAN HIMSELF***

http://www.mmaconvert.com/2009/10/27/machida-thought-he-won-four-rounds-injured-his-hand/

IS THAT ENOUGH PROOF? 
THERE'S SOME RESOURCES FOR YOU, DOES THAT MEAN I CAN LABEL YOU NOW?
SHOGUN'S FACE WASN'T MESSED UP WHAT THE HELL PLANET ARE YOU ON AND WHY ARE YOU A MODERATOR?
I DIDN'T CALL YOU DELUDED, I ASKED IF YOU ARE OR NOT, BECAUSE YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE TROUBLE DECIPHERING FACT FROM FICTION YOU ABSOLUTE CLOT.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

SM33 said:


> http://www.mmamania.com/2009/10/31/...-postpone-ufc-104-rematch-against-shogun-rua/
> 
> - ***FROM THE MAN HIMSELF***
> 
> ...


 

He said later that he had in fact injured the hand before the fight but did not wantr to make ecuses nor not show up and fight ....thats out of Honor and he def stated it, thats why these articles i am posting simply confirm that...Thats all I have been trying to tell you....

That the same article I quoted dude and in there he isnt certain what is wrong with his hand, its stated that whatever hurt his hand happened in training.......HELLO....


ONE MORE TIME:



> However, he was forced to settle for a May rematch instead after Machida revealed that he had undergone surgery days after the fight to repair an injured hand he suffered in training. Apparently, Machida had admirably fought with the injury rather than call off the match up.


 
HERE'S HIM SAYING BASICALLY HE DID IT PRIOR TO THE FIGHT BUT BECAUSE THE BOUT WAS AGREED UPON HE WAS NOT GOING TO PULL OUT.......



> "The fight has been verbally agreed upon, but for now, we don't have a written contract," Machida said. "But the fight was promised and it will happen. I think we learned a lot from this fight, both he and I. Maybe I needed to get in a bit of trouble to help me evolve. But for now, I have not stopped to analyze the changes that need to take place before our next fight. I'll do that after I start training again in January. Right now I'm enjoying this time to recover mentally and physically."


Go waste someone elses time there are threads on this already........your ignorance is painful....you def called me deluded I quoted the post you did it in we can discuss any mmatter bring my staff status into question again and I will give you a reason to, so far i am simply owning someone in discussion.....lol, shoguns face wasnt messed up...runing I.P check on you now....


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

haha your reputation relies on you 'owning' people, and when someone proves you wrong or disagrees with you, you threaten them with your staff status and I.P checks - WTF IS THAT ANYWAY?!?

I'll quote myself -


> CC no offense mate but are you completely deluded?


a) The sentence quoted above is a question, not name-calling, hence the question mark.

b) I said "no offense", meaning don't take this the wrong way. You obviously have taken it the wrong way and harhar I have just 'owned you in discussion', so I stand by what I say in that you are a deluded, big headed, keyboard warrior clot. :sarcastic12: See ya.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

SM33 said:


> haha your reputation relies on you 'owning' people, and when someone proves you wrong or disagrees with you, you threaten them with your staff status and I.P checks - WTF IS THAT ANYWAY?!?
> 
> I'll quote myself -
> 
> ...


 
Clearly your an argumentative troll when documented evidence is in front of you it is ignored, where has the broken hand during the fight issue disapeared to? I am no keyboard warrior the respect I have earned here i have just that...earned, you have 33 posts and clearly a lack of ability to understand what was quoted from someones mouth in an article....

As far as the I.P. check, people that come here just to nag usualy are returning trolls, you so closely meet that profile an I.P. check is in order...

LOL...yeah god knows how I got on staff dude and TBH, why you want to bring it up but I will tell you that its irrelivant to the fact that you are incorrect and if I appear short in my posts its because Im managing my business and answering to people that cant read, as opposed to simply putting them on ignore and letting the other members weed you out....

Im done with this enjoy yourself on the forum man and enjoy getting to know everyone....we'll speak again after the rematch when Lyoto wins again....

I didnt really take offense to your post but the simple fact that I have to explain what has already been quoted, plus this topic has totally been addressed on another thread, so your in effect arguing a point that was established weeks ago on this very forum....hope that makes things more clear...deluded delusional whatever thats not gonna bother me....ARGUING the same thing when your incorrect does.....

Be well...


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

SM33 said:


> haha your reputation relies on you 'owning' people, and when someone proves you wrong or disagrees with you, you threaten them with your staff status and I.P checks - WTF IS THAT ANYWAY?!?
> 
> I'll quote myself -
> 
> ...


Nobody is threatening you with their mod status. However it's just a statement of fact when I say that insulting staff violates forum rules, and any staff member is free to proceed accordingly.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Yep sorry I shouldn't have called you names, but regardless of what's been said in this thread I do find coldcall420 to be consistantly patronising and hypocritical in general.

Proceed how you like, I really like this forum I just think you could have a more neutral attitude considering your role as a moderator. Even now you're still persistant about who is definitively right or wrong in this argument, but of course you're allowed to be and I'm not.

I'm not a troll, trolling is one pasttime I could never understand, and in future I'll make sure not to debate with coldcall420 and will make sure to advise others not to either, based on my experiences. Nice touch with the negative rep, happy forumming.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

SM33 said:


> Yep sorry I shouldn't have called you names, but regardless of what's been said in this thread I do find coldcall420 to be consistantly patronising and hypocritical in general.
> 
> Proceed how you like, I really like this forum I just think you could have a more neutral attitude considering your role as a moderator. Even now you're still persistant about who is definitively right or wrong in this argument, but of course you're allowed to be and I'm not.
> 
> I'm not a troll, trolling is one pasttime I could never understand, and in future I'll make sure not to debate with coldcall420 and will make sure to advise others not to either, based on my experiences. Nice touch with the negative rep, happy forumming.


LOL advise all the others you want, Im sure someone with 33 posts will convince people I have posted on this forum along side those "others" you are referring so good luck with that, especially from someone with 33 posts.........you have 33 posts moderators can debate and have an opinion, we are members too, my role as a mod kicks in if you start attacking people or baiting them. Yeah i did touch you with rep, the 1st i have given in quite a while....

Your a Shogun fan im a Machida fan, so were not gonna agree Im smart enough to know that so I correct you by linking a source to the article stating he suffered it in training....read the entire thing and you will see Lyoto say there was an agreed upon bout.....meaning he wasnt gonna pull out.

That was all the post was intended for to correct you saying he injured it in the fight......when in fact he did prior....good luck with the telling others...LOL

Look at the accolades below in my sig dude, they must have come from no where....:confused03:

Be well man see you on the boards....


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

We've both got our sources, this is the internet you could probably find some sort of source for anything. Honestly your little awards mean nothing to me, simply implies to me even more that if you were to go out in public and try talking to people the way you do on here, you'd probably get knocked out every day. I could imagine you saying "Hey officer you can't give me a parking ticket, I've driven more miles than you!' It's not about how many posts you've got, it's what you say in the posts.

I don't attack or bait anyone and I understand that being a moderator doesn't stop you from posting like everyone else. I don't feel like I've done anything wrong, but as long as you're so sarcastic to me and everyone with less posts than you because it's all about the post count, I'll feel that you are always wrong.

That's more than a touch of neg rep isn't it, I'm sure you're very happy now you've stained my all important forum reputation forever, simple things for simple minds, happy forumming.


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## OliverTwist (Oct 25, 2009)

All I'm hoping is that this next fight is decisive so it cuts the debates..... but even if someone dominates for 4 rounds and then ends it with a KO, I wouldn't be surprised if people some how argue over the fight


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Yeah I'm sure if Lyoto got KO'd he'd still be the most elusive, dangerous and untouchable dude on the planet. If he knocks out Rua but then won't fight Silva, it'll be the most pointless affair in MMA history,


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## Nikkolai (Jan 7, 2008)

It irritates me how fighters say that they were injured going into the fight. That is their own choice but I do not see the need to state it. All that does is create an excuse or other people creating excuses for the fighter. Win or lose, go to the hospital to take care of the problem and that is that.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

SM33 said:


> We've both got our sources, this is the internet you could probably find some sort of source for anything. Honestly your little awards mean nothing to me, simply implies to me even more that if you were to go out in public and try talking to people the way you do on here, you'd probably get knocked out every day. I could imagine you saying "Hey officer you can't give me a parking ticket, I've driven more miles than you!' It's not about how many posts you've got, it's what you say in the posts.
> 
> I don't attack or bait anyone and I understand that being a moderator doesn't stop you from posting like everyone else. I don't feel like I've done anything wrong, but as long as you're so sarcastic to me and everyone with less posts than you because it's all about the post count, I'll feel that you are always wrong.
> 
> That's more than a touch of neg rep isn't it, I'm sure you're very happy now you've stained my all important forum reputation forever, simple things for simple minds, happy forumming.


 
:sad02:.....Simple minds....my I.Q. is 126...tested...learn to read, your sources are wrong, your rep returns when you post and people rep you, sorry I neg repped you once, the more post that make sense that people agree with will get you pos reps, acting in a different fashion may get you a neg rep...its based off points, more you have the more rep power, but you know this as its explained in the terms and conditions you clicked "I agree" too......I dont normally neg anyone but....

My awards are voted on by members of this forum and someone with your attitude and approach probably wont ever get any, more importantly probably will have a tuf time fitting in....Also if you had 2 dots of redr rep and i pos repped you there would be a full bar of green dots....thats why I dont normally rep people....


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

SM33 said:


> We've both got our sources, this is the internet you could probably find some sort of source for anything. Honestly your little awards mean nothing to me, simply implies to me even more that if you were to go out in public and try talking to people the way you do on here, you'd probably get knocked out every day. I could imagine you saying "Hey officer you can't give me a parking ticket, I've driven more miles than you!' It's not about how many posts you've got, it's what you say in the posts.
> 
> I don't attack or bait anyone and I understand that being a moderator doesn't stop you from posting like everyone else. I don't feel like I've done anything wrong, but as long as you're so sarcastic to me and everyone with less posts than you because it's all about the post count, I'll feel that you are always wrong.
> 
> That's more than a touch of neg rep isn't it, I'm sure you're very happy now you've stained my all important forum reputation forever, simple things for simple minds, happy forumming.


It's hardly all about the post count. It's about the content of said posts.

You are still baiting. Please discontinue doing so. It's probably better if you leave the thread and cool off for a little while.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

I actually said -


> It's not about how many posts you've got, it's what you say in the posts.


 - which is exactly what you've just told me. You're trying to tell me something which I've just told someone else, are you even reading the posts?

I know it's not about post count, I was commenting on coldcall's comments about post count, you're obviously not reading his posts and are therefore biased.

I did leave the thread, I said 'see ya.', but coldcall persists, so I'm not the one baiting, he is. Why don't you check his I.P or advise that he leaves and cools off. 

I don't need to cool off. This is hilarious. I'm arguing with people who I can get a pretty good idea about what they're like in real life, and I am still a faceless character you know nothing about.

coldcall420, no normal person could fit in with a forum full of people like you, by the way you missed out the decimal point between the 2 and 6.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Feel bad for shogun he is going get excited for nothing as machida will ko him. Reason being machida will liekly fix all his mistakes. Also common sports sicology shogun will likely come into this fight over confident where as machida want to win more since he was exposed.


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## Ruckus (Oct 2, 2009)

SM33 said:


> Yeah I'm sure if Lyoto got KO'd he'd still be the most elusiev, dangerous and untouchable dude on the planet. If he knocks out Rua but then won't fight Silva, it'll be the most pointless affair in MMA history,


Let's just say Machida does knock out Rua, him not fighting Silva in know way makes this fight the most pointless affair in MMA history. IMO a Silva-Machida fight is irrelevant. They have both repeatedly stated this fight would not happen so it is pointless to continue to speculate. Further more, the LHW is arguably the most stacked division in the UFC. The winner is going to have hand fulls of contenders to deal with; Evans, Jackson, Lil Nog, Cane at the top of that list as well as Jones, Forrest, Bader, Matyushenko. That's without the possibility of Belfort fighting at LHW or Mousasi in some sort of co-promoting deal. I'd say whoever has the belt is going to have their hands full for quite some time.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

SM33 said:


> I actually said - - which is exactly what you've just told me. You're trying to tell me something which I've just told someone else, are you even reading the posts?
> 
> I know it's not about post count, I was commenting on coldcall's comments about post count, you're obviously not reading his posts and are therefore biased.
> 
> ...


Dudes, relax. This is the internet. Where we are all God and opinions are nuclear warheads. Of course 420 is opinionated. Massively so. His sig is more like a god damn continent! So what? Is the debate ridiculous at times? Who cares. Think of it like a good movie : full of characters you love and hate. Would you chop out the bits with the peeps you dislike? Course you wouldn't. You love it really. I love it. We all love it.

Stick around. Its a good forum... well, I think so anyway. Gets on my nerves, makes me laugh and seriously educates me in equal measure.

* group hug *

Anyway, Machida hurt Shogun plenty in the fight. My opinion is... that the reason Rua dint go in for the kill the last two rounds, is because of damage he took from Lyoto, rather than advice from the corner. There were things Machida started to do to counter Ruas tactics which I think caused Rua to back off. All been discussed before so old rope. Just my opinion.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

I'm with you Soojooko. I will stick around this is a great forum, I don't post much anyway.

Yeah I know Ruckus, just saying that when Anderson fights at LHW next, he'll be a top contender but can't go for the title (if Lyoto remains champ), so if Lyoto wins, Silva may as well stay at MW. It's a pointless affair from Silva's perspective if he would want to fight at LHW. There are plenty of great fighters in the division but Silva may as well sit on top at MW until there's a different LHW champ.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

SM33 said:


> I actually said - - which is exactly what you've just told me. You're trying to tell me something which I've just told someone else, are you even reading the posts?
> 
> I know it's not about post count, I was commenting on coldcall's comments about post count, you're obviously not reading his posts and are therefore biased.
> 
> ...


Funny how thousands of "normal" people manage to get along with CC just fine.

You may have left the thread in theory, but not in practice. You don't know any more about us than we do about you.

Some of your previous statements clearly fit the forum designation of baiting.


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## Jord -Jitsu (Nov 3, 2008)

Cant we all just get along? 

Seriously guys this has turned into a personal argument now. SM33 relax man, take it easy. CC you haven't got anything to prove brother so can't we just drop this now and get back to more pressing issues.

Who takes the re-match? Im going with Machida


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Normally, we do.


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## Cptmats (Dec 27, 2009)

alizio said:


> I dont see it that way, Machida just isnt as far ahead as alot of ppl thought, he didnt fight any experienced longtime top fighter like Shogun was all, just new guys like Rashad and Thiago.


Machida had wins over high ranking fighters long before he came to ufc ! First man to beat Frankiln, beat BJ Penn in japan as well. ....shogun where do i start...imo most over rated fighter of all time.....right up untill his last fight, he looked excellent and fially lived up to the hype...unfortunatly in doing so he mearly mached his aponent,....i can see Shogun have a bit of trouble getting his head around that while Machida corrects his mistakes..............Machida, stoppage, Strikes :fight02: ray01:


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## Nikkolai (Jan 7, 2008)

Cptmats said:


> Machida had wins over high ranking fighters long before he came to ufc ! First man to beat Frankiln, beat BJ Penn in japan as well. ....shogun where do i start...imo most over rated fighter of all time.....right up untill his last fight, he looked excellent and fially lived up to the hype...unfortunatly in doing so he mearly mached his aponent,....i can see Shogun have a bit of trouble getting his head around that while Machida corrects his mistakes..............Machida, stoppage, Strikes :fight02: ray01:


Both of whom are not in the same weight class. I do not see how Shogun is overrated. He has fought the best light heavy weights in the world at the time. He was relatively unknown and steam rolled his way into the 2005 Middle Weight Gran Prix. Their resumes do not even compare.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Let's all make sure to keep the discussion on topic.


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## Cptmats (Dec 27, 2009)

Nikkolai said:


> Both of whom are not in the same weight class. I do not see how Shogun is overrated. He has fought the best light heavy weights in the world at the time. He was relatively unknown and steam rolled his way into the 2005 Middle Weight Gran Prix. Their resumes do not even compare.


lol, he has look ok since being in the ufc, not great ! but ok, tell me what he did that was so great in pride ? beat arona in the grand prix final? he has always been a good fight but never the top 205 or even #2 for that matter....hype hype hype....and BTW Franklin is in his weight class and was undefeated till he fought machida....he was 205 before ufc and is back there again !


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## Nikkolai (Jan 7, 2008)

Cptmats said:


> lol, he has look ok since being in the ufc, not great ! but ok, tell me what he did that was so great in pride ? beat arona in the grand prix final? he has always been a good fight but never the top 205 or even #2 for that matter....hype hype hype....and BTW Franklin is in his weight class and was undefeated till he fought machida....he was 205 before ufc and is back there again !


He had major injuries coming into the UFC. He was regarded as the #1 light heavy weight in the world back then. I do not get what you are asking. Looking at the fighters he fought during that time period leaves no question as who was on top. I was not discussing his time in the UFC. I did forget that Franklin started off as a light heavy weight. To be technical, he is not back there again as he was only fought catch weight so far.


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## Cptmats (Dec 27, 2009)

Nikkolai said:


> To be technical, he is not back there again as he was only fought catch weight so far.


did franklin not fight wand at 205? what im saying about shogun is what was so impressive about what he did in pride ? beating Arona ? Randleman ? Jackson was his biggest win but it was kind of a hollow victory when he barly fought back....Rampage lost his taste for fighting after the second ko loss to wand, he stated after the fight he shows up and fights because has too, its his job. im not saying hes not a great fighter but imo beating two guys that others many have beat and a guy who didnt even wanna fight to win a tourney dosnt make you the best in the world....i think silva would be top 205, a focused rampage #2 shogun and machida are a toss up for #3 and #4


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Cptmats said:


> did franklin not fight wand at 205? what im saying about shogun is what was so impressive about what he did in pride ? beating Arona ? Randleman ? Jackson was his biggest win but it was kind of a hollow victory when he barly fought back....Rampage lost his taste for fighting after the second ko loss to wand, he stated after the fight he shows up and fights because has too, its his job. im not saying hes not a great fighter but imo beating two guys that others many have beat and a guy who didnt even wanna fight to win a tourney dosnt make you the best in the world....i think silva would be top 205, a focused rampage #2 shogun and machida are a toss up for #3 and #4



He beat Arona, Rampage, Overeem twice, Lil Nog, Gono (the guy who beat Hector Lombard and Gegard Mousasi), Randleman... these were all HUGE wins in Pride. He went 12-1 in the most stacked division, in the most stacked organization, in MMA history. His only loss being a freak loss to HW Mark Coleman.


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## Cptmats (Dec 27, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> He beat Arona, Rampage, Overeem twice, Lil Nog, Gono (the guy who beat Hector Lombard and Gegard Mousasi), Randleman... these were all HUGE wins in Pride. He went 12-1 in the most stacked division, in the most stacked organization, in MMA history. His only loss being a freak loss to HW Mark Coleman.


your making my point for me,lots of people,have wins over Overoid, Arona and Randleman, Lil Nog Clearly out struck him. Rampage is irelivent. He has big wins over mediocer fighters !...add Machida or a Silva to this list and i will see your point. :confused02:


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Cptmats said:


> your making my point for me,lots of people,have wins over Overoid, Arona and Randleman, Lil Nog Clearly out struck him. Rampage is irelivent. He has big wins over mediocer fighters !...add Machida or a Silva to this list and i will see your point. :confused02:


Your argument is quite absurd. Here's my Cptmats impression as a Machida hater instead:
*
your making my point for me,lots of people,have wins over Sokoudjoid, Heath, Nakamura, Hoger and Thiago Silva, Shogun Clearly out struck him. Rashad is irelivent. He has big wins over mediocer fighters !...add Rampage or a Silva to this list and i will see your point. :confused02:*

How exactly is Rampage irrelevant? The dude is a monster, his only UFC loss being a close controversial decision. That fact that those other guys you mentioned have losses doesn't mean much, most of them have only lost to other top 10 fighters of their time. They're still better than most of the B-levels on Machida's list.

Now I'm actually a big Machida fan and have been on his bandwagon for a while ... I think he's the better fighter and will tool Shogun in the rematch. Basically I think he let the belt go to his head and got complacent, and Shogun came in with a great gameplan the last fight.

At the same time, Shogun did win my respect as a fan in that last fight. He made Machida look very human, which was no easy feat until now. And his record is very much impressive as well, apart from his mysterious little-girl-cardio period on initial entry into the UFC. To discount his achievements and his potential is silly as well ... this should be a great fight.


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## Cptmats (Dec 27, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> Your argument is quite absurd. Here's my Cptmats impression as a Machida hater instead:
> *
> your making my point for me,lots of people,have wins over Sokoudjoid, Heath, Nakamura, Hoger and Thiago Silva, Shogun Clearly out struck him. Rashad is irelivent. He has big wins over mediocer fighters !...add Rampage or a Silva to this list and i will see your point. :confused02:*
> 
> ...


Rampage was diheartend after the second wand loss,He state he had lost his desire to fight but had a contract obligation....thats what im saying..jackson barly fought !
I have been a fan of Machida since long before he came to the UFC and Shogun won my respect as well. Im not discountng his potential, i think he has all the potential in the world, i just dont believe he lives up to it all the time, looked great against Machida....but people have been calling him the top 205 for i long time and i just dont see it that way , im not A shogun Hater, i think hes a great fighter....just not what he been built up to !


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## Stonewall44 (Oct 19, 2006)

Rampage barely fought because Shogun broke his ribs in the fight...
Rampage also said that Shogun Rua is the best fighter he's ever faced.


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## Cptmats (Dec 27, 2009)

Stonewall44 said:


> Rampage barely fought because Shogun broke his ribs in the fight...
> Rampage also said that Shogun Rua is the best fighter he's ever faced.


Rampage had a cracked rib before the fight, Shogun never touched his body......just watched it 2 seconds ago for about the 30th..lol


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

> Rampage had a cracked rib before the fight, Shogun never touched his body......just watched it 2 seconds ago for about the 30th..lol


Didn't he bust a rib or two with knees early in the fight? Never heard that Rampage was hurt going in.


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## Cptmats (Dec 27, 2009)

SM33 said:


> Didn't he bust a rib or two with knees early in the fight? Never heard that Rampage was hurt going in.


Neither did i, trigg spoke about it during an pride fc show on fox, may not be accurate but it makes sense when you watch the fight


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

It does makes sense in the context of the fight - Rampage may as well have had his hands tied behind his back, Shogun kicked ten shades of shit out of him.

But Rampage did say Rua was the toughest guy he ever fought, I guess you wouldn't say that if you were injured going in, cus you knew they'd have the advantage.

Another mystery in the fight world...


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

lol.. Rampage and his 1000000s of excuses.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Shogun steamrolled Rampage because of the controversial decision that Ninja Rua lost against him prior. It was a revenge thing, I haven't seen any credible sources say Rampage was injured.


But like everyone else said it doesn't matter how Rampage showed up, he got destroyed in that fight! :thumb02:


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

why would you want bloodlust revenge for a fight that Rampage got a bogus decision in and admitted he lost and handed Ninja a trophy??

I dont think it was revenge, it was a fight, like any other just hyped up as revenge. Rampage may make excuses but he made none vs ninja and manned up in a way 99% of fighters wouldnt.

Shogun owned PRIDE Rampage. So did Wandy. Doesnt mean he will own him as badly now. Obv the toughest guy Rampage faced because he is the true best lhw atm and was when Pride shutdown aswell. He may very well destroy Page again but that's not guaranteed.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

BrianRClover said:


> I welcome anyone to quote me on this one. This fight will end the way most people thought the first one was going to. It's going to be a rough night for Shogun.














coldcall420 said:


> IMO...Machida will be more ready and have even more to prove. I guess it comes down to your perception of the fighter. Bottom line is Lyoto won that fight....Period, no one said decisively, but he won it.....Will he totally change his style no, i agree with you there, but he will be more aggressive....l*ets not forget that he stood there and took those leg kicks by choice, if you think he couldnt have been alot more elusive and avoided them(boring fight) then your wrong*, he chose to to enable him to counter.....with the broken hand.....throw in the fact that he broke his hand five days before the fight and still fought makes me further believe people are counting out the champ...
> 
> 
> Im sure the haters and the hype surronding the last fight isnt motivation for Lyoto to solidify his crown and make people know he is the best 205er....
> ...


BWAHAHAHAA:laugh:

more evidence that lyoto fans are delirious


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)




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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)




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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)




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