# Can this man beat Anderson Silva?



## brownpimp88 (Jun 22, 2006)

22-4-1. "Marvelous" Melvin Manhoef. 

"No Mercy" is an elite MMA striker and has competed in K-1 Kickboxing. 21 of his 22 wins come way by T(KO). He is currently fighting with DREAM in Japan, and he is a semi-finalist in their Middleweight Grand Prix. He will (potentially) fight two fights in one night, with Zelg Galesic, "Jacare" Souza and Gegard Moussasi being his potential opponents. His most recent fight was a 90 second KO over Japanese Icon Kazushi Sakuraba. 

Manhoef has a very explosive, yet technical style and has awesome KO power. He has probably P4P amongst the most heavy handed strikers in all of MMA. However, his glaring weakness if his ground game. Aside from losses early in his career against much bigger opponents(one of which he avenged), Manhoef has only lost to elite grapplers Dong Sik Yoon and Yoshihiro Akiyama via submissions.

Now, how would Manhoef possibly beat Anderson Silva, a top tier grappler and explosive striker?

Well, if Anderson Silva tries to strike with Manhoef, it can be dangerous. I believe that Manhoef has what it takes to get the job done with Anderson on the feet. Manhoef's style may be a little too reckless, but I think if he had a proper training camp and someone to mentor him, he could put all his potential into beating Silva on the feet. I can't really see Anderson shooting in on Manhoef(he would if he is smart though). 

Now, the likely hood of this fight is very minuscule. But hypothetically, do you think Manhoef would be able to beat Anderson on the feet? 

I am merely trying to spark conversation. I am a proven Anderson fan, so think twice before you say "uh, Idiot, Andy p4p, mkay?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp-lA3gfHKI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12eCVvKhkkA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6Wabm5js-A&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNttRJ40QZE&feature=related (His loss to Yoshi. He should have just stood up with him, and not tried to take him down near the end.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om3sZo9KIxI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1yUNmN7ftk&feature=related


----------



## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

Standing? Yes, maybe, he's no doubt one of the best strikers at 170-205. He's very explosive and has insane power. But someone with reach can pick him apart (I.E. Bonjasky)

On the ground? Definitely not, he has a pretty weak ground game because he's a proud MT fighter who doesn't care too much about the ground game - but - he IS beginning to work on it.

So, I think he'd give him a hell of a time, and it would be a spectacular fight, but in the end, I think Silva is the smarter fighter and would probably end it with a sub, because standing, they're almost even.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 23, 2007)

Maybe he could stand well with Silva but would he pass the piss test?


----------



## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

i think melvin would do well standing against anderson...he'd certainly do better than henderson, franklin, marquart, and leben did....

melvin also has a pretty solid chin which is needed against silva...

melvin would need to come out and blast anderson right out of the gate before anderson finds his range....fast, technical, and aggressive strikes could catch anderson off guard....but unlikely...since anderson is smart and would probably see it coming...whether the storm, and kill manhoef in the second round, after he gasses


----------



## 70seven (Mar 5, 2007)

Fighters in Japan > UFC



What is this, 3 years ago? 




I think he may have a chance a beating Anderson Silva.


----------



## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

Theres only one way to find out signem up.

Lets get ready to RUMBLE.....


----------



## mmawrestler (May 18, 2008)

whoa thats weird i was just looking at his stats and videos a minute ago.
I dont think he could beat anderson silva but I think he would de pretty good. i wanna see him vs mousasi as the final match for DREAM

he reminds me of a consistant soukadjui


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

I hadn't even thought of Melvin as an opponent for him. I think Melvin could pose some problems standing for Anderson but if Anderson takes it to the ground then Melvin won't stand a chance.


----------



## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

I agree with pretty much everybody else, he would hang with Silva standing but when Silva takes it to the ground it is over.


----------



## ThaFranchise (Dec 24, 2007)

I love Melvin, but Andersons reach and precision would prob destroy him.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

This fight should have happened years ago in Cage Rage, unfortunately both guys were with that organization during separate periods and Melvin was fighting at 205.

Personally I'd love to see that fight though, but I think Anderson's accuracy is what would be Melvin's bane.


----------



## ean6789 (Nov 19, 2006)

Whats the reach comparison to him and Silva numbers wise? This wouldnt be too bad a matchup cuz i mean if Patrick Cote has quote "heavy hands" then wtf does Manhoef have seing as how hes much scarier on the feet then Cote


----------



## brownpimp88 (Jun 22, 2006)

ThaFranchise said:


> I love Melvin, but Andersons reach and precision would prob destroy him.


Anderson's reach would definitely be his biggest advantage.


----------



## Suvaco (Mar 31, 2007)

Melvin would probably be his toughest matchup, but I see Anderson using kicks and utilizing his reach advantage, eventually leading to a late TKO, because Anderson doesn't do decisions.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

Melvin can definitely be dangerous to Anderson at the start. But Anderson is way, way too calculating and smart of a fighter to get caught in Melvins gameplan. He'd avoid taking big shots, and eventually either submit or KO him by using his reach (the reach advantage is quite good for Andy), and his precision strikes.

But yeah, that would be a good fight.


----------



## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

Let me brake down Melvin Manhoef's chances. Take a snowball. Then take said snowball and place in hell. There's his chances. Seriously the guy doesn't even deserve a top 10 at MW ranking, and we're talking about beating the best pfp fighter in the world. This discussion is fridiculous.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

rockybalboa25 said:


> Let me brake down Melvin Manhoef's chances. Take a snowball. Then take said snowball and place in hell. There's his chances. Seriously the guy doesn't even deserve a top 10 at MW ranking, and we're talking about beating the best pfp fighter in the world. This discussion is fridiculous.


I swear to God you made this exact same post in an Anderson Silva/Patrick Cote thread :laugh:


----------



## A Rich Ace (May 1, 2008)

Anderson has a bad tendency of deafeating his opponents with what they do best. 

I.E. Rich Franklin by TKO twice.
Travis Lutter by Triangle. 

Maybe Silva would be too prideful to step into the ring and put this guy in an arm bar. Judging by Melvin's striking ability....Silva's face would be hamburger. We'll probably never know.


----------



## jeremy202 (Feb 3, 2008)

That melvin fights like he's having a roid rage.He just goes crazy.Silva could definitely beat this guy.


----------



## ThaFranchise (Dec 24, 2007)

A Rich Ace said:


> Anderson has a bad tendency of deafeating his opponents with what they do best.
> 
> I.E. Rich Franklin by TKO twice.
> Travis Lutter by Triangle.
> ...


Huh? Anderson is far and away a better striker than Rich so it played into his hand to destroy him standing. As for the Lutter fight, it jus happened to go to the ground and he was able to sink in a triangle and open up on him. I highly doubt Anderson went into the Lutter fight thinking he was only gonna try to submit him.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

ThaFranchise said:


> Huh? Anderson is far and away a better striker than Rich so it played into his hand to destroy him standing. As for the Lutter fight, it jus happened to go to the ground and he was able to sink in a triangle and open up on him. I highly doubt Anderson went into the Lutter fight thinking he was only gonna try to submit him.


Actually he really did want to submit Lutter.


----------



## ThaFranchise (Dec 24, 2007)

Well even if he did state it (I dont recall), he did the best possible thing he could have done in the situation he was in at the time, so how is that a "bad tendancy".


----------



## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

Explosive, fast and relentless but his height and wild style would allow Anderson to use his foot work (best in MMA) to elude and counter and I think pick this guy apart.

Remember Anderson has PRECISE strikes, leave yourself open at your peril.

Inside you get clinched and kneed to death, stay outside you eat laser aimed power shots.

This guy looks scary but I think Anderson would take it without any major problems.


----------



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Everyone is saying when Silva gets it to the ground its over. But when was the last time you saw Silva take anyone down?? He has very weak wrestling and fighting a physical specimen like Melvin, he would have a very tough time getting the takedown. This fight would be great, Id give Silva the edge but wouldnt be surprised if Manhoef took Anderson out.


----------



## Nikkolai (Jan 7, 2008)

Man, Melvin's wins were all tko/ko except one. He has been ko'ed once and had been submitted twice by arm bar according to fight finder. I have not seen his fights but only looked at the highlights. I guess if they were standing, it just depends on who gets a good clean hit first. On the ground, I think I would give it to Silva(if it gets to the ground).


----------



## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Everyone is saying when Silva gets it to the ground its over. But when was the last time you saw Silva take anyone down?? He has very weak wrestling and fighting a physical specimen like Melvin, he would have a very tough time getting the takedown. This fight would be great, Id give Silva the edge but wouldnt be surprised if Manhoef took Anderson out.


I recognized this as I called Silva for the ground, he does indeed have some poor wrestling, so I just kinda felt that IF the fight DOES go to the ground, it would be Silva's.

But, you have to take Cardio into consideration. I mean, we haven't seen Silva hit the 3rd round since 04', and we know that Melvin does gas after a couple minutes of insane, nearly blew your head off striking.


----------



## Redrum (Jan 30, 2008)

take downs are not the only way to put your opponent on the ground. lyoto grounded tito with a knee to the liver, and fedor grounded sylvia with strikes, rendering tim's impressive sprawl irrelevant, then he submitted him. andersen silva grounded james irvin with a single strike.


----------



## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> I swear to God you made this exact same post in an Anderson Silva/Patrick Cote thread :laugh:


I swear to God the fact that you remember that is a little pathetic. I swear to God that neither of them have any chance at all of winning.


----------



## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

Are people continue to take every PoS fighter out there saying that they have a chance of beating Anderson Silva?
No chance in hell. Not even a Serra's chance, Anderson Silva is no stupid and is not a brawler. He's the best fighter in the world, and the best striker in MMA. Deal with it.


----------



## pauly_j (Nov 28, 2006)

He's way too sloppy. He's nothing more than a technical brawler with good power. Anderson would A) Pick him appart with his reach, or B) Clinch up and destroy him.


----------



## ean6789 (Nov 19, 2006)

valrond said:


> Are people continue to take every PoS fighter out there saying that they have a chance of beating Anderson Silva?
> No chance in hell. Not even a Serra's chance, Anderson Silva is no stupid and is not a brawler. He's the best fighter in the world, and the best striker in MMA. Deal with it.


Since when was Manhoef a PoS fighter? Have you seen him fight at all or aare you just making a blanket statement about (insert name here)? Melvin has quality k-1 standup and as said Andersons wrestling is piss poor so why does this matchup infuriate you so much. Not only that but the guy is a fuckin beast that fought at heavyweight in k-1 and at the imo would put up a better fight then Cote will. Try not to hug dem nuts so much and actually make an informed post.


----------



## eric2004bc (Apr 27, 2008)

his style is just to reckless anderson would just duck and counter and beat him, but if melvin caught anderson it could be dangerous for the spider


----------



## B-Real (Oct 1, 2006)

Anybody with a white belt in BJJ could beat Melvin. Anderson is a much better technical striker. It could be an exciting fight though. I like Melvin, but not against Anderson.


----------



## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

B-Real said:


> Anybody with a white belt in BJJ could beat Melvin. Anderson is a much better technical striker. It could be an exciting fight though. I like Melvin, but not against Anderson.



You mean a yellow belt, a white belt has no knowledge, you get it for free.


----------



## pauly_j (Nov 28, 2006)

I'm pretty sure that's not the case in bjj. In other martial arts it is but in bjj you have to be pretty good to get a white belt. I have no idea though, I do nogi.

Edit: There is also no yellow belt.


----------



## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Normally I don't get into the Anderson vs. this fighter threads but a few months ago I was researching the fighters for the DREAM grand prix and I loved watching Melvin fight- just freaky nasty power and aggressive as hell. Groundgame aside- Silva's reach and robotic(I'm talking insane accuracy percentage not style-wise) crazy accuracy would be Melvin's undoing if they fought IMO.




brownpimp88 said:


> Manhoef's style may be a little too reckless, but I think if he had a proper training camp and someone to mentor him, he could put all his potential into beating Silva on the feet.


I think that would be the key for Melvin to have a chance to win this- if he could control himself and pace a little bit better he could have a decent chance standing up and I would absolutely love to see that battle.:thumbsup: 




brownpimp88 said:


> I am merely trying to spark conversation. I am a proven Anderson fan, so think twice before you say "uh, Idiot, Andy p4p, mkay?"



This I completely agree with- Anderson right now is at the top of his game and just mowing through people but last I checked he still belonged to the human race which makes him fallible and imperfect. There will be a day when Anderson loses and despite what a lot of people believe the day after that happens- *gasp* the sun will still rise.

I'm getting sick of the responses like "OMG No way Anderson loses to Jesus Christ, are you kidding?!?!? He's got the reach on Jesus and would KTFO him in like 12 seconds!!!"


----------



## brownpimp88 (Jun 22, 2006)

pauly_j said:


> He's way too sloppy. He's nothing more than a technical brawler with good power. Anderson would A) Pick him appart with his reach, or B) Clinch up and destroy him.


I'd like to see Anderson clinch Manhoef. If Anderson were smart(which he is), he's use option A. Unless he were using the clinch to work a sweep or something, trying to clinch Manhoef would and get in close would play right into Manhoef's style and lead to some devastating shots.



valrond said:


> Are people continue to take every PoS fighter out there saying that they have a chance of beating Anderson Silva?
> No chance in hell. Not even a Serra's chance, Anderson Silva is no stupid and is not a brawler. He's the best fighter in the world, and the best striker in MMA. Deal with it.


Come on man. At least read the thread. We are talking about Anderson fighting Manhoef on the feet. We know Manhoef is reckless, but let's say he went into this fight with a proper training camp and guidance and a treadmill, he could be really dangerous standing against Anderson. 



Walker said:


> Normally I don't get into the Anderson vs. this fighter threads but a few months ago I was researching the fighters for the DREAM grand prix and I loved watching Melvin fight- just freaky nasty power and aggressive as hell. Groundgame aside- Silva's reach and robotic(I'm talking insane accuracy percentage not style-wise) crazy accuracy would be Melvin's undoing if they fought IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is exactly what I am talking about. I love Anderson and all, but he is definitely beatable. Will Manhoef beat him? Probably not. But it is worth discussing and analyzing the potential fight.


----------



## SILVA>ALL (Jul 22, 2008)

bbjd7 said:


> If Anderson fought smart he would walk through Manhoef.
> 
> However if his pride gets in the way and he tried to prove he is the best striker in MMA I think this would be one hell of a fight and Anderson IMO might lose.
> 
> Manhoef is a monster the guy is powerful and fast and everything you could want in a striker.


You guys do realise that Manhoef is only 5 ft 8 and that Anderson Silva is 6 ft 2, right? On top of that, Anderson isn't a one-punch-knock-out fighter by his own design...he picks his spots, softens you with each opening and then finally puts you to sleep. And Manhoef, like Irvin, offers many openings especially when fighting someone as methodical as Silva. 

He's just too short and too reckless against a striker of Silva's caliber.

Sure, he throws thunder bolts, but he's gotta hit something to knock it out first...and Anderson has some of the best foot movement in combat sports -- plus the reach advantage.

In the unlikely event that they fight, Manhouef would wear down swinging himself out of air and hitting nothing. The only person getting hit would likely be manhoef with several, well spotted crispy jabs right before his pillow time.

Manhoef = Power punches.
Silva = Reach Advantage, Foot Movement, Precision, Dynamic Strikes and Highly Methodical.

It's a no-brainer. I know who I'd put my money on.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Manhoef fought in K-1 at HW how is Anderson's is 6'2 that's tall but he has faced taller guys.

And did you just compare Irvin to Manhoef? That shows me you have no clue the kind of striker Melvin is.

BTW Acoustic to think Melvin wouldn't be able to hit Anderson is just stupid the guy fought in K-1 with pure strikers and has been able to compete.


----------



## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

I don't know if he'd beat him, but I am damn sure that I want to see it.


----------



## SILVA>ALL (Jul 22, 2008)

bbjd7 said:


> Manhoef fought in K-1 at HW how is Anderson's is 6'2 that's tall but he has faced taller guys.
> 
> And did you just compare Irvin to Manhoef? That shows me you have no clue the kind of striker Melvin is.


I'm flattered that you remember my old username.

The comparison between Irvin and Manhoef was legit -- it was about the power they pack in each punch, and the sometimes wild and erratic swing at their opponents.



> BTW Acoustic to think Melvin wouldn't be able to hit Anderson is just stupid the guy fought in K-1 with pure strikers and has been able to compete


Of course he could hit Anderson, but physics dictates that Manouef will get hit first.

Anderson Silva is very unique in his obsession with technical precision when it comes to his stand up in MMA. The idea that Manhouef is automatically guaranteed to hang with Anderson, just because he fought in K1 would be akin to saying Nate Marquardt would out-wrestle Silva just cause he was an Abu Dabi veteran. Well, you saw what happened to Nate, despite where he'd fought before.

I judge purely on technique, not simply where a guy once fought.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Manhoef has techincal skill unlike Irvin who is a brawler.

They are very different fighters Melvin is a top striker in the world and would give Anderson a tough time.


----------



## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

SILVA>ALL said:


> Anderson Silva is very unique in his obsession with technical precision when it comes to his stand up in MMA. The idea that Manhouef is automatically guaranteed to hang with Anderson, just because he fought in K1 would be akin to saying Nate Marquardt would out-wrestle Silva just cause he was an Abu Dabi veteran. Well, you saw what happened to Nate, despite where he'd fought before.
> 
> I judge purely on technique, not simply where a guy once fought.


Melvin has hung in there with better striker(s) than Silva that are also bigger than Melvin as well. If you think comparing Irvin and Melvin's striking is a good comparision, well your wrong.


----------



## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

pauly_j said:


> I'm pretty sure that's not the case in bjj. In other martial arts it is but in bjj you have to be pretty good to get a white belt. I have no idea though, I do nogi.
> 
> Edit: There is also no yellow belt.


there is a yellow belt for children 

I believe the color he was looking for was blue.

but realistically purple is the level I'd say wouldn't have much trouble with him.


----------



## Uchaaa (Apr 22, 2007)

Its not like silva is undefeatable in striking, he just hasnt faced a very good striker yet.


----------



## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

They guy is just 5'8'' ?. LOL. He probably will have a 70" reach or less (for reference, Hendo is 6'1'' and has 73" reach, and Tim Sylvia is 6'8'' and has 76" reach, while Anderson Silva has 77.5" reach). Than means at least SEVEN inch reach advantage. As I said, no chance in hell, this is MMA, not K-1.

And yes, I read the thread, and I can't believe how people is so, well, stupid for saying an unranked, unknown, undersized striker can beat the number 1 P4P fighter in the world, and Silva has no chance whatsoever vs Fedor.

I can't believe how much hate there is for Silva and how much love for Fedor.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

The guy has competed at the top levels of striking something Anderson hasn't valrond.

Anderson is a much better MMA fighter but in the striking department Manhoef would defiantly give him some trouble.


----------



## SILVA>ALL (Jul 22, 2008)

bbjd7 said:


> Manhoef has techincal skill unlike Irvin who is a brawler.
> 
> They are very different fighters Melvin is a top striker in the world and would give Anderson a tough time.


I don't doubt that Melvin is a better overall striker than Irvin -- however the argument about his quest for a one-punch-knockout leaving him open, as with Irvin, still stands.

Anderson is, without a doubt, one of the most cerebral fighters in MMA and you don't need to leave yourself open more than once before you get knocked out by that type of fighter.

Silva's greatest strength, to me, has always been his concentration and quick and precise, opportunistic responses to every mistake his opponents make. That's not merely about MMA, it's just an incredible mind-body coordination -- something you could easily see in a sniper or some kid with exceptional video game skills. Fedor has the same mental reflexes. 

That part of Anderson's game is what presents most problems for his opponents. It's not merely a question of athleticism, power or speed.

Manhouef's "power-swing" style is like a salad of opportunities for Anderson Silva's calculating style. Especially considering his lack of reach.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Manhoef has fought at top levels in the past and I doubt that his power punching will get him knocked out since he has been doing it his whole career.


----------



## GodlyMoose (May 20, 2007)

rockybalboa25 said:


> I swear to God the fact that you remember that is a little pathetic. I swear to God that neither of them have any chance at all of winning.


Cool story bro.


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

valrond said:


> They guy is just 5'8'' ?. LOL. He probably will have a 70" reach or less (for reference, Hendo is 6'1'' and has 73" reach, and Tim Sylvia is 6'8'' and has 76" reach, while Anderson Silva has 77.5" reach). Than means at least SEVEN inch reach advantage. As I said, no chance in hell, this is MMA, not K-1.
> 
> And yes, I read the thread, and I can't believe how people is so, well, stupid for saying an unranked, unknown, undersized striker can beat the number 1 P4P fighter in the world, and Silva has no chance whatsoever vs Fedor.
> 
> I can't believe how much hate there is for Silva and how much love for Fedor.


Melvin is far from an unknown, undersized striker. He is a top level K-1 fighter (K-1 striking is a much higher skill level then MMA striking) and has fought some of the best HW K-1 strikers in the world. IF you don't know anything about it that's ok but don't say things you have no idea about.


----------



## 6sidedlie (Nov 19, 2006)

70seven said:


> Fighters in Japan > UFC
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is a joke right?

Outside of like 3 LWs, all the elite fighters are in the States.

Silva murders Manhoef. Plain and simple, submission first round. Peace.


----------



## name goes here (Aug 15, 2007)

Hate for Silva? I've never seen any.
I like Melvin, I don't think he could beat A.Silva, but it would be close.


----------



## r00kie (Jul 8, 2008)

Silvas superior striking would make quick work of this guy.. Honestly he opens up way to much with his capoeira style.. Silva would take the openings and tear him apart


----------



## SILVA>ALL (Jul 22, 2008)

bbjd7 said:


> Manhoef has fought at top levels in the past and I doubt that his power punching will get him knocked out since he has been doing it his whole career.


Perhaps you're right, heck, he might even catch Anderson and knock him out within 10 seconds.

However, I'd put my money on Anderson's reflexes catching him first.

Reflexively, Silva reacts like he's running on some piece of software that counts his opponents' moves ahead of time.

Just for kicks, pick one of his fights and observe his reaction time in slow motion. I think THAT, not merely his Jiu Jitsu or Muay Tai, has been his greatest asset.


----------



## KyleB (May 30, 2007)

Hell no. His un-accurate wild throwing strikes wouldn't make it past 30 seconds with Silva.


----------



## brownpimp88 (Jun 22, 2006)

6sidedlie said:


> This is a joke right?
> 
> Outside of like 3 LWs, all the elite fighters are in the States.
> 
> *Silva murders Manhoef. Plain and simple, submission first round. Peace.*


The question is in the stand up 6. 

I know it is hard to see anyone beating Anderson guys, but Manhoef is the only striker at 185 that can touch Anderson. I'm not saying he'd win, but he'd do a lot better(with proper training, mind set, cardio) then a lot of people give him credit for. Just because UFC commercials aren't telling you he is great, doesn't mean he is terrible.


----------



## wallysworld191 (Mar 28, 2007)

brownpimp88 said:


> 22-4-1. "Marvelous" Melvin Manhoef.
> 
> "No Mercy" is an elite MMA striker and has competed in K-1 Kickboxing. 21 of his 22 wins come way by T(KO). He is currently fighting with DREAM in Japan, and he is a semi-finalist in their Middleweight Grand Prix. He will (potentially) fight two fights in one night, with Zelg Galesic, "Jacare" Souza and Gegard Moussasi being his potential opponents. His most recent fight was a 90 second KO over Japanese Icon Kazushi Sakuraba.
> 
> ...


first off middleweight in japan means 205....which is what he typically fights at. 

i still think anderson has him beat all the way around too though.


----------



## BloodJunkie (Jun 18, 2007)

Manhoef would be the most dangerous striker that Silva has ever fought so it brings an element of danger to Andy that he hasn't seen before standing. That said, Andy will take him down and sub Melvin because his ground game is garbage. Silva is in the business of winning so he will do what is easiest to assure a win, take him down and sub him.

On the feet, people keep saying that Silva is the superior striker but he's really not. Nobody has ever seen Silva against a world class striker so this is a totally different ball game than we've seen. Silva is a world class striker himself and I could see him doing quite well against most K-1 guys but it won't look like his fights in MMA, that is a certainty. 

The relatively low level striking of the opponents Silva has faced in his MMA career cannot be used to to measure the way he would fare against a top level striker of K-1 caliber. Silva's advantage in this fight is the ground like I stated previously, why would Silva not use that advantage to virtually guarantee a win? IMO Silva wouldn't even stand with Manhoef because he doesn't have too.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

wallysworld191 said:


> first off middleweight in japan means 205....which is what he typically fights at.
> 
> i still think anderson has him beat all the way around too though.


Dream MW divison is 185 do some research.


----------



## brownpimp88 (Jun 22, 2006)

wallysworld191 said:


> first off middleweight in japan means 205....which is what he typically fights at.
> 
> i still think anderson has him beat all the way around too though.


Um, middleweight meant 205 in Pride. In DREAM, it means 183/185(can't remember). Manhoef is actively competing at 183/185, considering he is in a 185 tournament. Manhoef competes all over the place. He actively competes at HW.


----------



## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

mjbish23 said:


> Melvin is far from an unknown, undersized striker. He is a top level K-1 fighter (K-1 striking is a much higher skill level then MMA striking) and has fought some of the best HW K-1 strikers in the world. IF you don't know anything about it that's ok but don't say things you have no idea about.


It is unknown to the general public, it is unranked despite being in MMA for a long time (27 fights, plus 38 K-1), and has never fought in one of the two big promotions. All of his MMA fights have been vs other virtual unknown fighters (I don't know any of them). 

And, for a middleweight striker, 5'8'' is undersized. It's the usual height for LW and some WW. I just checked the ufc MW roster Only one out of 41 fighters are 5'8'': Palhares. None is shorter than that. And only 3 are shorter than 5'11''. 

If you take into account the huge reach Silva has, and how well he uses it, I don't think he wouldn't stand much of a chance even if the fight didn't go to the ground.

However, you got me interested in the guy. I'll dl a couple of fights and see him, his fights are usually fast, win or lose, just decision in 27 fights.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

valrond you don't know who Sakuraba is? How about Ian Freeman?

Come on now.


----------



## brownpimp88 (Jun 22, 2006)

I'm telling you guys. Manhoef's potential is crazy. Get this guy in good cardio shape and get someone like Bas to coach and guide him and this guy is a stud.


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

valrond said:


> It is unknown to the general public, it is unranked despite being in MMA for a long time (27 fights, plus 38 K-1), and has never fought in one of the two big promotions. All of his MMA fights have been vs other virtual unknown fighters (I don't know any of them).


Almost all the fighters not fighting in the UFC are unknown to the general public so that really means nothing. Just because he didn't fight in the UFC or Pride doesnt mean he sucks or is nothing, he fought in Cage Rage, K-1 Heros, and is now fighting in DREAM which some consider the new Pride. All of which are decent to good orgs. Remember Anderson Silva used to fight in Cage Rage so it's not total garbage. Also you don't recognize who Sakuraba is? Melvin just demolished him in his last DREAM fight.



> And, for a middleweight striker, 5'8'' is undersized. It's the usual height for LW and some WW. I just checked the ufc MW roster Only one out of 41 fighters are 5'8'': Palhares. None is shorter than that. And only 3 are shorter than 5'11''.


Height isn't everything when talking about size. Melvin is incredibly strong just look at the picture of him. He is solid muscle.



> If you take into account the huge reach Silva has, and how well he uses it, I don't think he wouldn't stand much of a chance even if the fight didn't go to the ground.


I already said that Melvin has problems with fighters that have good reach but he is also very aggressive and could get in close to Anderson negating the reach advantage. If Anderson tried to clinch with him like he loves to do it would play into Melvin's advantages perfectly. I'm not saying Melvin is going to beat him but he stands a better chance than anyone else Silva has fought recently seeing as Melvin has K-1 level striking which is far above the striking level of anyone Anderson has ever faced.



> However, you got me interested in the guy. I'll dl a couple of fights and see him, his fights are usually fast, win or lose, just decision in 27 fights.


I'm glad you're gonna watch some of his fights. Melvin is a decent fighter with heavy hands and good striking.


----------



## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> valrond you don't know who Sakuraba is? How about Ian Freeman?
> 
> Come on now.


Yes, I remember Ian Freeman beating the hell out of Frank Mir, was it UFC 38?. I have heard of Sakuraba, but haven't seen him fight.

Well, the guy is a good striker, 21 out of 22 wins by KO, he must have some serious power.


----------



## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

mjbish23 said:


> Melvin is far from an unknown, undersized striker. He is a top level K-1 fighter (K-1 striking is a much higher skill level then MMA striking) and has fought some of the best HW K-1 strikers in the world. IF you don't know anything about it that's ok but don't say things you have no idea about.


Yeah he has fought some of the best K-1 fighters in the world but he has yet to win any belts or championships except in cage rage.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Because his ground game sucks yort.

No one is questioning that.

However on the feet he would defiantly give Anderson a hell of a time.


----------



## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> The guy has competed at the top levels of striking something Anderson hasn't valrond.
> 
> Anderson is a much better MMA fighter but in the striking department Manhoef would defiantly give him some trouble.


Silva is 40-1 in Muay Thai, only loss was to Pele. I know it isn't K-1 but it is still against top level Thai boxing fighters.


----------



## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

It's a very high probability but the reach is his only and possibly biggest disadvantage, not to mention the fact that the fight would probably never happen


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Manhoef is a monster striking, Anderson is as well so I defiantly think he can give them trouble.


----------



## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Because his ground game sucks yort.
> 
> No one is questioning that.
> 
> However on the feet he would defiantly give Anderson a hell of a time.


After seeing his fights he is more of an offensive fighter where as silva is more defensive and counters a lot. He waits for the other person to make a mistake then capitalizes on it. Plus with having much more length on Melvin, silva shouldn't have to much problem standing.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Everyone is saying when Silva gets it to the ground its over. But when was the last time you saw Silva take anyone down?? He has very weak wrestling and fighting a physical specimen like Melvin, he would have a very tough time getting the takedown. This fight would be great, Id give Silva the edge but wouldnt be surprised if Manhoef took Anderson out.


He took Jorge Rivera (a very strong middleweight) down effortlessly, and he hit a switch to take Marquardt down. The reason people say if the fight hits the ground "it's over" because Anderson's ground game is WAY more developed than Melvin's, even if he pulled guard Melvin would be at a severe disadvantage.



rockybalboa25 said:


> I swear to God the fact that you remember that is a little pathetic. I swear to God that neither of them have any chance at all of winning.


I remember reading the same thing word for word if I see it twice---as can most people with active brains, retard.


----------



## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

Long thread made short.

He beat Sakuraba. Would he beat Sakuraba in his prime before his knees were trashed? Who knows?

Could be beat Anderson Silva. Anyone has a puncher's chance...






(But it would help if it was dark, he had a lead pipe, and the spider was sleeping soundly after a 205lb meal.)


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

yorT said:


> After seeing his fights he is more of an offensive fighter where as silva is more defensive and counters a lot. He waits for the other person to make a mistake then capitalizes on it. Plus with having much more length on Melvin, silva shouldn't have to much problem standing.


Silva might have an advantage size wise but Manhoef has fought a ton of K-1 level strikers bigger than Anderson so it's not like Anderson will give him problems he's never seen before.


----------



## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Silva might have an advantage size wise but Manhoef has fought a ton of K-1 level strikers bigger than Anderson so it's not like Anderson will give him problems he's never seen before.


Yes he has fought bigger strikers than silva but I am saying Melvin is a offensive fighter that overwelms his opponent. Silva is a counter striker and picks his shots carefully in which melvin would play right into silva's game.


----------



## The Dude Abides (Jul 8, 2008)

He can certainly swing those fists. Like you said, looks like he'd need considerable coaching to have a chance against Anderson. Just watching those clips and i can easily picture Anderson just picking him to pieces.

Nice read though, and you've turned me on to a fighter i knew nothing about. Nice one. :thumb02:


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

yorT said:


> Yes he has fought bigger strikers than silva but I am saying Melvin is a offensive fighter that overwelms his opponent. Silva is a counter striker and picks his shots carefully in which melvin would play right into silva's game.


A lot of the top K-1 guys are counter strikers.
Anderson is a very good striker one of the best in MMA history however he doesn't really do anything that the top guys of K-1 don't.


----------



## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> A lot of the top K-1 guys are counter strikers.
> Anderson is a very good striker one of the best in MMA history however he doesn't really do anything that the top guys of K-1 don't.


Yeah but silva also has 40-1 Thai boxing record with his only loss coming to pele. Granted this was some time ago he has still fought top people in a pure striking match as well. 

The only way we would know is if they fight.


----------



## BloodJunkie (Jun 18, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Silva might have an advantage size wise but Manhoef has fought a ton of K-1 level strikers bigger than Anderson so it's not like Anderson will give him problems he's never seen before.


Exactly, the size differences coupled with the superior striking level of the big boys he has faced in K-1 make the size difference in Silva far less dramatic than people are making it out to be.

He took his first fight with Remy Bonjasky the distance and his second fight with him into the 3rd round, Remy is larger than Silva and is a superior striker as well. Melvin KO'd Ruslan Kareav who is Silva's size and is an equal striker IMO. I don't see how people can say that Melvin would be handled on the feet. What world class strikers has Silva fought that prove he would run through Manhoef on the feet?


----------



## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

BloodJunkie said:


> What world class strikers has Silva fought that prove he would run through Manhoef on the feet?


Silva has beaten Pele in a Thai boxing match and pele was def a world class striker at the time. I am not saying he would run through Manhoef but the style of fighter Manhoef is plays into silva's game.


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

yorT said:


> Yeah but silva also has 40-1 Thai boxing record with his only loss coming to pele. Granted this was some time ago he has still fought top people in a pure striking match as well.
> 
> The only way we would know is if they fight.


Who are these world class Thai fighters Anderson has fought? I've never seen his MT record so i'm curious.


----------



## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

mjbish23 said:


> Who are these world class Thai fighters Anderson has fought? I've never seen his MT record so i'm curious.


Here is what i could find on his pro Thai Boxing career:


> Anderson Silva’s childhood dream was to grow up to be a policeman like his stepfather but, once he tried his hands and feet at martial arts, his life took a different path. His first venture into the combative disciplines was studying Tae Kwon Do as a teenager before he joined the Nogushi Muay Thai Team. Under Nogushi’s guidance, Silva had his first taste of professional combat, competing in roughly 40 Muay Thai fights, including two against his future training partner Jose “Pele” Landi-Jons.
> 
> According to Silva, they won one match apiece and he has said he only lost one of his Thai Boxing matches, suggesting that Landi-Jons was the only person to beat Silva under Thai rules.


http://www.fightingspiritmagazine.co.uk/article.asp?IntID=52

Wish i could find a legit thai boxing site that shows records.


----------



## kgilstrap (Dec 3, 2006)

Who cares if he fights Anderson, I want him to fight Wandy, talk about an exciting fight!

Honestly I don't think he can beat Anderson though..Anderson will keep distance, his foot work is insane and this guy is too wreckless for a guy like Anderson.


----------



## GodlyMoose (May 20, 2007)

yorT said:


> Silva is 40-1 in Muay Thai, only loss was to Pele. I know it isn't K-1 but it is still against top level Thai boxing fighters.


Can you please tell me where you got that record from? Because I haven't found anything on his Muay Thai record. 

The only Muay Thai fights I know that Silva have been in are from the two Muay Thai tournaments from a gym in Curitiba that he fought in. He went to the finals in both tournaments. Each time, Pele knocked Anderson out.

There also has been people saying(Not you, and anyone in particular) that he was a Brazilian Muay Thai champion which is false, wikipedia at one time had this, but was obviously removed due to it's falseness. Not to mention the people who think Anderson can be a K-1 champion, or could beat the upper echelon level K-1 fighters. Anderson has very, very good MMA striking, and most definitely is the best striker in MMA(I'm not going to count people Semmy, JLB, etc who have fought MMA before). But he would probably be a B-level fighter in K-1. He could maybe have moderate success, but would probably get tooled against K-1 elite.

Most MMA fighters for the most part when attempting to fight in K-1 get worked.

Also, Pele used to knock-out everybody in Chute Boxe during hard core sparring sessions (no protection and pulling no punches). All acknowledged by Wanderlei, Ninja, Anderson, Assuerio and Rodrigo Vidal.


----------



## BloodJunkie (Jun 18, 2007)

yorT said:


> Silva has beaten Pele in a Thai boxing match and pele was def a world class striker at the time. I am not saying he would run through Manhoef but the style of fighter Manhoef is plays into silva's game.


Pele is good but no where near K-1 level. Pele would have gotten the snot beat out of him in K-1.


----------



## Arlovski_Fan (Apr 25, 2007)

The Legend said:


> I agree with pretty much everybody else, he would hang with Silva standing but when Silva takes it to the ground it is over.


This.
I'd like to see this fight actually, but it will never happen. Anderson is Dana's boy and Manhoef fights for K-1 and will probably stick with dream for his MMA needs.


----------



## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

Remy is 6-4 230-240 and Melvin didn't have much problems getting to him and in their second fight he was injured going in and got hurt during the fight and had to have surgery and then two weeks later fought in Dream.


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

yorT said:


> Here is what i could find on his pro Thai Boxing career:
> 
> http://www.fightingspiritmagazine.co.uk/article.asp?IntID=52
> 
> Wish i could find a legit thai boxing site that shows records.


Well since we can't find a legit source on his record and it's just hearsay and rumors that he is 40-1 that's no longer a valid argument to use against how he would do against Manhoef.


----------



## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

If we are assuming that Silva will stand and try and win that way to prove a point I would put Tyrone Spong in there and I am pretty confident in saying he would beat Silva. Of course if Anderson took it to the ground he would win but he would most likely lose the standup.


----------



## BloodJunkie (Jun 18, 2007)

MLS said:


> If we are assuming that Silva will stand and try and win that way to prove a point I would put Tyrone Spong in there and I am pretty confident in saying he would beat Silva. Of course if Anderson took it to the ground he would win but he would most likely lose the standup.


Yes, that is all I have to say.


----------



## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

mjbish23 said:


> Well since we can't find a legit source on his record and it's just hearsay and rumors that he is 40-1 that's no longer a valid argument to use against how he would do against Manhoef.


Well we do know he beat Tadeu San Martino in a Thai Boxing match:
http://mefeedia.com/entry/anderson-silva-vs-tadeu-sam-marino/8213127/

And Tadeu has had 30 fights with 27 wins 23 of them by KO:
http://www.fight-vids.co.uk/videos/muay-thai-highlights-tadeu-san-martino-200.html



MLS said:


> If we are assuming that Silva will stand and try and win that way to prove a point I would put Tyrone Spong in there and I am pretty confident in saying he would beat Silva. Of course if Anderson took it to the ground he would win but he would most likely lose the standup.


Just because they fought in k-1 doesn't mean they are better than someone that hasn't. Point in case Rampage's ko over Cyril Abidi and Abidi is more accomplished in K-1 than Melvin. Ramapage at the time wasn't known for his steller striking either.


----------



## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

Or you know Spong is 79-3 and has the tools to beat Anderson. By the way he has only fought in K-1 once and it was a superfight not even a tournament fight. Did I mention he is only 22.


----------



## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

MLS said:


> Or you know Spong is 79-3 and has the tools to beat Anderson. By the way he has only fought in K-1 once and it was a superfight not even a tournament fight. Did I mention he is only 22.


I'm not doubting Spong has the tools to beat silva, there are a lot of people that have the tool to beat him. Its just a matter of putting them together correctly and not make any mistakes doing it. The person that makes the least mistakes wins.


----------



## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

No but you questioned my reason for stating that Spong could beat him. As I stated if Anderson kept it on the feet he would most likely lose to Spong because Spong is the superior striker and can put it all together against Anderson. Just some records that Spong has:

2008 WFCA Cruiserweight Muay Thai World champion 
2008 KO World Series Oceania Champion
2005 A-1 Combat Cup Tournament Champion
2005 WPKL European Champion
2004 WKN European Champion
MTBN Junior Class Dutch Muay Thai Champion


----------



## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

Who can beat Anderson Silva at 185? The answer is simply no one. That's why anderson should fight a live cougar. Although I think he would catch the cougar in the later rounds in a triangle.


----------



## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

MLS said:


> No but you questioned my reason for stating that Spong could beat him. As I stated if Anderson kept it on the feet he would most likely lose to Spong because Spong is the superior striker and can put it all together against Anderson. Just some records that Spong has:
> 
> 2008 WFCA Cruiserweight Muay Thai World champion
> 2008 KO World Series Oceania Champion
> ...


Well yeah last time silva has fought a pure striking match using both hands and feet was almost 10 years ago. No doubt spong would prob win beings that striking is the only thing spong trains.


----------



## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

The problem for all those K-1 fighters is that this is MMA, not K-1. As soon as the fight hits the ground (and it will), the chances of the striker to win are ZERO. We've seen it since UFC 1. Anderson Silva is up there with the best K-1 fighters in striking not my saying, but IronMan's. And he has world class Ju-Jitsu too. So all those K-1 fighters would have a good chance at beating him if the fight was only striking, but MMA is a lot more than that.

Oh, and just a Q, how many K-1 champs have been UFC or Pride champs?


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

valrond said:


> The problem for all those K-1 fighters is that this is MMA, not K-1. As soon as the fight hits the ground (and it will), the chances of the striker to win are ZERO. We've seen it since UFC 1. Anderson Silva is up there with the best K-1 fighters in striking not my saying, but IronMan's. And he has world class Ju-Jitsu too. So all those K-1 fighters would have a good chance at beating him if the fight was only striking, but MMA is a lot more than that.
> 
> Oh, and just a Q, how many K-1 champs have been UFC or Pride champs?


Cro Cop maybe one or 2 others i'm not sure about. MLS or Bloodjunkie will be able to tell you for sure.


----------



## loxly (Apr 10, 2007)

this is close to a replay what what would happen to Melvin against Anderson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxI0eQlI5zQ


----------



## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

mjbish23 said:


> Cro Cop maybe one or 2 others i'm not sure about. MLS or Bloodjunkie will be able to tell you for sure.


When did Cro Cop get the HW title of Pride?. I don't remember him beating Fedor. He won the GP, but he wasn't the HW champion.

Pedro Rizzo was really close to being UFC champion (I think he won the first fight vs Randy), other than that, I know of no one, but again, my knowledge of MMA is quite limited.


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

I didn't mean that Cro Cop was HW champ, I meant he was the GP champ.

Edit:

Also just because no K-1 fighter has ever been champ in MMA doesn't mean that K-1 has some of the most elite strikers in the world.


----------



## BloodJunkie (Jun 18, 2007)

valrond said:


> The problem for all those K-1 fighters is that this is MMA, not K-1. As soon as the fight hits the ground (and it will), the chances of the striker to win are ZERO. We've seen it since UFC 1. Anderson Silva is up there with the best K-1 fighters in striking not my saying, but IronMan's. And he has world class Ju-Jitsu too. So all those K-1 fighters would have a good chance at beating him if the fight was only striking, but MMA is a lot more than that.
> 
> Oh, and just a Q, how many K-1 champs have been UFC or Pride champs?


The problem is that people have been saying that Manhoef would not be able to stand with Silva. Nobody has argued that Manhoef would win on the ground. 

As a matter of fact I have stated that Silva would guarantee himself the victory by taking the fight down and subbing Manhoef instead of standing with him. Silva is a smart guy and would know how to assure a victory, that being said I don't beleive that Silva would even take the chance of standing with Melvin becasue he knows that it would be dangerous for him. The conversation turned to a discussion about K-1 striking and MMA striking when members began saying that Melvin would be outclassed on the feet.

As for your question, The second UFC Heavyweight Champion was an establish kickboxer and K-1 veteran. His name is Maurice Smith and he took the title from Mark Coleman.

Cro Cop was never a title holder in MMA but there is no denying his former status as one of the best in MMA.

Can you name an MMA champ that has won a K-1 title?

* Edit* 

I am not trying to say that most K-1 fighters would dominate an MMA fighter under MMA rules but they would school 99% of all MMA fighters in striking. Silva is one of only a few MMA fighters with top level striking when compared to elite K-1 strikers.

K-1 fighters would school most MMA fighters in striking as badly as an MMA fighter would school a K-1 Fighter on the ground.


----------



## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

BloodJunkie said:


> The problem is that people have been saying that Manhoef would not be able to stand with Silva. Nobody has argued that Manhoef would win on the ground.
> 
> As a matter of fact I have stated that Silva would guarantee himself the victory by taking the fight down and subbing Manhoef instead of standing with him. Silva is a smart guy and would know how to assure a victory, that being said I don't beleive that Silva would even take the chance of standing with Melvin becasue he knows that it would be dangerous for him. The conversation turned to a discussion about K-1 striking and MMA striking when members began saying that Melvin would be outclassed on the feet.
> 
> ...


I forgot about Mo Smith, yeah, he was "champ" in the very early days. But champion nonetheless.

And we're not talking about K-1 here. This is MMA, this is K-1 fighters coming to MMA, not the other way around. This is K-1 strikers fighting MMA, not fighting only on their feet.

So that Melvin guy could stand vs Silva?. Yes, but he'll end like the video linked before. However, Melvin would have a chance standing, and like 0 chance on their feet. Anderson Silva is no fool, he'd take the fight to the ground. So the answer to the original question is NO. He can't beat Anderson Silva (Do I have to specify at MMA, 185 lbs division?)


----------



## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

So I watched those videos that were posted and was wondering how he would defeat Anderson. He stumbles and grabs the ropes after like every punch he throws, Anderson would just back pedal and tear this guy to pieces, he has no where near the finese and gracefullness he'd need to beat him.


----------



## BloodJunkie (Jun 18, 2007)

valrond said:


> I forgot about Mo Smith, yeah, he was "champ" in the very early days. But champion nonetheless.
> 
> And we're not talking about K-1 here. This is MMA, this is K-1 fighters coming to MMA, not the other way around. This is K-1 strikers fighting MMA, not fighting only on their feet.
> 
> So that Melvin guy could stand vs Silva?. Yes, but he'll end like the video linked before. However, Melvin would have a chance standing, and like 0 chance on their feet. Anderson Silva is no fool, he'd take the fight to the ground. So the answer to the original question is NO. He can't beat Anderson Silva (Do I have to specify at MMA, 185 lbs division?)


Yet, people were saying that Silva would dominate the stand up earlier in this discussion. That is when people with actual knowledge of world class striking stepped in with the K-1 comparisons.

Fact: Melvin Manhoef is an elite K-1 level striker.

Fact: Silva is a top level striker in MMA.

Question: Why would people assume that because it is an MMA fight, Silva would automatically dominate the striking?

Question: Is a world class K-1 striker not capable of outstriking an MMA fighter because the fight is simply an MMA fight? What if it stays on the feet?

I'm not calling you out, just explaining that some other members have said that Silva would dominate the STRIKING. That is what led to some of us bringing up Melvin's K-1 backround. the K-1 comparisons were relevent to the discussion about Siva outstriking Manhoef.


----------



## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

valrond said:


> Anderson Silva is no fool, he'd take the fight to the ground. So the answer to the original question is NO. He can't beat Anderson Silva (Do I have to specify at MMA, 185 lbs division?)


Anderson likes to beat people where they are at their best, Melvin is at his best on his feet. Anderson stood with Lee Murray for most of the fight why didn't he try and keep it on the ground the whole time?


----------



## mma17 (Jun 4, 2007)

Like Plazz said, anyone with the explosiveness of Melvin Manhoeff has a chance to win at any single moment, but I think his only chance would be to just explode early on.


----------



## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

mma17 said:


> Like Plazz said, anyone with the explosiveness of Melvin Manhoeff has a chance to win at any single moment, but I think his only chance would be to just explode early on.


I think I heard this one before. This fighter has the explosive one punch power to knock Silva out early. Who were they talking about: James Irvin. He didn't even last two minutes, and he was a LHW.


----------



## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

rockybalboa25 said:


> I think I heard this one before. This fighter has the explosive one punch power to knock Silva out early. Who were they talking about: James Irvin. He didn't even last two minutes, and he was a LHW.


Again this has been stated, if you think that Irvin and Melvin is a good comparison, you are wrong.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

I think Melvin can and would beat him. The same way everyone before has beaten Anderson. Constant pressure and aggressiveness. Manhoef has the ability not to make the huge mistake that gets him KO'd and also the ability to end the fight with more then just one hand (ie Leben and Hendo). There are only two fighter that I would say that about. Manhoef and Lindland, though the thought of Lindland beating Silva is slowly disappearing in my head.


----------



## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

Unfortunately for your logic, Manhoef isn't a one trick puncher, he's actually a kickboxer (unlike Irvin) and he utilizes all parts of the stand up and strikes for a living, not as another aspect of his game.

Also, K-1 is an organization, not a martial art, don't get them mixed up. So saying "No K-1 fighter has ever been champ in MMA" is irrelevant.

Paul Daley is a MT fighter, he has 3 belts in MMA. 

Crocop won the OWGP, Semmy Schilt has been king of Pancrase many times. 

Manhoef is the CR LHW champ.

Mark Hunt has fought for the PRIDE HW title. As has CC.

Anderson Silva started out in MT.


----------



## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

plazzman said:


> Unfortunately for your logic, Manhoef isn't a one trick puncher, he's actually a kickboxer (unlike Irvin) and he utilizes all parts of the stand up and strikes for a living, not as another aspect of his game.
> 
> Also, K-1 is an organization, not a martial art, don't get them mixed up. So saying "No K-1 fighter has ever been champ in MMA" is irrelevant.
> 
> ...


First of all Muay Thai and kickboxing are very different. Calling Daley and Manhoef real champions is ridiculous. It's like saying you have the best baseball team in the world after winning the AA minor league championship. Mark Hunt has only ever beaten another kickboxer in mma that can be considered a quality opponent (Crocop). Shlit lost to every top Heavyweight he ever faced in pride. CroCop is really you're only example here, and he couldn't fight in the cage. He was destroyed by Gonzaga and Kongo!


----------



## SILVA>ALL (Jul 22, 2008)

The bottomline is that Anderson Silva broke a lot of people's delusions about what a real fighter was and they're still trying to grapple with the fact that fighting prowess is beyond their stereotypes.

That's why there's an obsession with finding Silva's conqueror (the great redeemer/hope) even though hardly anyone is looking for Fedor's conqueror.

It's, in truth, less about Anderson Silva and his rightful place in MMA than it is about age old insecurities. 

On one hand, there are the Anderson "underminers" and back-handed complimenters(the names never change) then there are fair-minded guys like Fedor>ALL who will equally call out both the fact-deprived Anderson haters and Anderson fanatics.


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

> I forgot about Mo Smith, yeah, he was "champ" in the very early days. But champion nonetheless.


"champ"? What the hell does that mean? Mo Smith actually beat a seriously tough fighter to get that title belt and even defended it.


----------



## BloodJunkie (Jun 18, 2007)

rockybalboa25 said:


> First of all Muay Thai and kickboxing are very different.


What is your point here? Muay Thai and Kickboxing are both dominant forms of stand up. Hence why plazzman pointed out that K-1 is not a martial art its an organization. K-1 showcases the best strikers from many disciplines including Karate, TKD, Muay Thai and Kickboxing. 

As for your other point about minor leagues. That works the other way around too. Being the best striker in MMA is like being the best batter in the minor leagues because the best strikers in the world generally fight in K-1 so I guess K-1 is the big leagues of striking.


----------



## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

rockybalboa25 said:


> First of all Muay Thai and kickboxing are very different. Calling Daley and Manhoef real champions is ridiculous. It's like saying you have the best baseball team in the world after winning the AA minor league championship. Mark Hunt has only ever beaten another kickboxer in mma that can be considered a quality opponent (Crocop). Shlit lost to every top Heavyweight he ever faced in pride. CroCop is really you're only example here, and he couldn't fight in the cage. He was destroyed by Gonzaga and Kongo!


What are you trying to say? That if you're not in the UFC then you're not the best? Your opinion is only a matter of opinion and not fact, so it's pretty irrelevant.

No matter the organization, these fighters are champions, in MMA.

Actually, BloodJunkie said it better.


----------



## CopperShark (May 13, 2006)

uh, Idiot, Andy p4p, mkay?


----------



## chilo (May 27, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om4jeyzgCkM&feature=related

...nah.:thumbsdown:


----------



## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

Damone said:


> "champ"? What the hell does that mean? Mo Smith actually beat a seriously tough fighter to get that title belt and even defended it.


I mean that MMA was in its infancy then. And he didn't look very impressive after winning the title, getting dominated by almost every fighter after that. Pedro Rizzo wasn't champ but was a lot better than Maurice, both in Kickboxing and MMA.

But now, can that Melvin beat Anderson Silva?

Hell, no. He has lost 4 times already in MMA to unknown fighters, and he's been KOed, Silva has fought tougher MMA opponents and hasn't even been rocked. Silva would beat him with ease.


----------



## cabby (Sep 15, 2006)

70seven said:


> Fighters in Japan > UFC
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hahahah


----------



## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Good proposal, but I think Anderson would tag Manhoef something serious when he rushes in. Melvin isn't an elite K1 fighter, but he's a specimen and freak of nature physically (well besides the ol gas tank).


----------



## brownpimp88 (Jun 22, 2006)

The ignorance in this thread is crazy.

Manhoef is not just a "brawler" or "one punch KO fighter" like a lot of you guys think. If you had a clue, you'd know that he is a really talented kickboxer, with an agressive and often reckless style in MMA. It seems to be working for him too, as that 22-4-1 record I was talking about, it's in MMA, not K-1. Anderson Silva does have high level striking, but it has never been tested by someone at the elite level. Rich Franklin may be a top tier MMA striker, that's it. 

As for how the matchup would go, it would be simple. Anderson would be trying to use his reach to his advantage and keep Melvin at bay, and then try to explode when he sees openings. The ideal fight for Melvin would be to take the center of the cage and work his way in and out, landing power shots, set up by his awesome(rarely used) leg kicks. If Anderson tries to clinch, I think that would speak big trouble for him. That is how the fight would work out on the feet.

Some of you guys don't even know Anderson's style, history etc. etc., but you guys will just go "Anderson P4P! ULTIMATE CAGE FIGHTING! YEAH!".

Finally, a main point in my argument is that Manhoef needs some changes to his training. He needs a good mentor to teach him the art of Jui-Jitsu and take down defense, as well as how to use his amazing talents on the feet effectively. His potential is crazy, he just needs some guidance. If someone like Randy, Bas or someone were to handle this guy; holy crap.


----------



## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Mevlin is a sick kickboxer, but I wouldn't put him in the same league as Bonjasky, JLB, Hari, and all the same dudes for the past 10 years in k1. He's always undersized though. 

I would like to see how Anderson would handle his onslaught.


----------



## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

brownpimp88 said:


> The ignorance in this thread is crazy.
> 
> Manhoef is not just a "brawler" or "one punch KO fighter" like a lot of you guys think. If you had a clue, you'd know that he is a really talented kickboxer, with an agressive and often reckless style in MMA.



Wow, it seems that it is you that don't know Anderson Silva. The Spider eats those reckless guys for breakfast. It just takes a tiny mistake vs Anderson and you're done. If the guy is reckless, he's as good as dead.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

I agree brownpimp, it seems as though people are denying Melvin's chances based on the fact Anderson Silva is mentioned in the topic. Melvin is more explosive than anyone Silva's faced, and his kickboxing technique is phenomenal.


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

This thread is the reason i've stopped liking Anderson. Way too many nuthuggers who blindly think Anderson is the greatest and no one will ever be able to beat him.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

mjbish23 said:


> This thread is the reason i've stopped liking Anderson. Way too many nuthuggers who blindly think Anderson is the greatest and no one will ever be able to beat him.


Anderson's a great fighter, and I still like him, but so many of the people that support him around here have bought into the Dana White hype. Anderson's an amazing specimen, but no one should ever be written-off in a fight with him, especially a guy like Manhoef who is a beast on the feet.


----------



## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

Of course he has a chance, every fighter in every fight has a chance of winning. Its just that from what you're saying BP, he isn't a perfect consistent striker and weak ground game, means the fight leans more towards Anderson. I also think if he needs training on his ground game then his chances go down more. Finally, we saw what can happen in the Irvin fight if you try and use leg kicks to set up power shots, you get KOed.


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> Anderson's a great fighter, and I still like him, but so many of the people that support him around here have bought into the Dana White hype. Anderson's an amazing specimen, but no one should ever be written-off in a fight with him, especially a guy like Manhoef who is a beast on the feet.


That's how I feel. Obviously he is a great fighter and I respect his skills and him as a fighter but I no longer root for him. Like you said too many people have bought into the Dana White hype machine and think that Anderson is the next coming of Christ and he will never be beaten.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

mjbish23 said:


> That's how I feel. Obviously he is a great fighter and I respect his skills and him as a fighter but I no longer root for him. Like you said too many people have bought into the Dana White hype machine and think that Anderson is the next coming of Christ and he will never be beaten.


I know what you mean man, that's why I just ignore the PR/marketing and laugh. Anderson's a great fighter, who has cleaned out a rather empty division and beaten a very average/inconsistent LHW. There are still plenty of fights for him in both weight-classes, ones he could potentially lose.. I just believe that the hype is out of control. I love watching him, but I hate reading the posts of his bandwagon/nuthugger fans.


----------



## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

I mean I'm an Anderson fan but to think that Melvin couldn't hang with Silva on the feet is ridiculous.


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> I know what you mean man, that's why I just ignore the PR/marketing and laugh. Anderson's a great fighter, who has cleaned out a rather empty division and beaten a very average/inconsistent LHW. There are still plenty of fights for him in both weight-classes, ones he could potentially lose.. I just believe that the hype is out of control. I love watching him, but I hate reading the posts of his bandwagon/nuthugger fans.


I couldn't have said it better myself.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I'm glad you guys wrote that an not me. If I put that their were fighters in MMA that could beat Anderson I would be hating on him and wishing he would lose.

I agree 100% with you two. I'm still not sure why people even care that he beat Irvin except for the fact the UFC said we should care.


----------



## SILVA>ALL (Jul 22, 2008)

chilo said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om4jeyzgCkM&feature=related
> 
> ...nah.:thumbsdown:


Wow, Yoon made that look too easy.

Bottom line for me is: two great stand up fighters, one is 5 ft 8 and throws hurricanes, the other is 6 ft 2 and is as calculated, meticulous and as controlled as a serial killer.

I'll bet on the latter everytime. Mentally and psychologically, I don't think Manhouef is up to task. 

Unless he completely overhauls his rushed approach for a match against Silva, he's taking a nap. 

This has nothing to do with Dana's hype. Contrary to the opinions of a lot of people bothered by Silva's "too much fame", not every Silva fan believes he's undefeatable, that's a Fedor fan dispostion. In fact, personally, I believe that when Anderson fights Rousimar, he's having the toughest fight of his life and should thank his lucky stars should he eke out a victory.

But Manhouef just doesn't make much sense. He seems like the perfect fodder for Anderson style -- a stout guy with poor reach that generally hacks his way through a fight (albeit with a respectable degree of skill). 

His style and physical shortcomings are just too perfect for Anderson's precision guided bombs.


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

chilo said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om4jeyzgCkM&feature=related
> 
> ...nah.:thumbsdown:


You forget to mention that Dong's a world class judoka. Silva wishes he could have judo skills like the Donger.

Why this would be an interesting match-up: Both guys are great strikers. For once, Anderson would face a great striker in the UFC.


----------



## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

SILVA>ALL said:


> I'll bet on the latter everytime. Mentally and psychologically, I don't think Manhouef is up to task.


So Manhoef has faced better striker(s) then Anderson yet he isn't "mentally and psycologically up to the task"?


----------



## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

I just love how it use to be a great wrestler like Henderson was his kryptonite and now its a great striker. I agree Franklin isn't a great striker or even decent boxer. My question is this: Who are five strikers that could be Anderson in mma? Also, I thought Silva came over from K-1 to MMA or am I wrong?


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

IcemanCometh said:


> I just love how it use to be a great wrestler like Henderson was his kryptonite and now its a great striker. I agree Franklin isn't a great striker or even decent boxer. My question is this: Who are five strikers that could be Anderson in mma? Also, I thought Silva came over from K-1 to MMA or am I wrong?


I'm pretty sure Silva never fought in K-1. Supposedly he has 41 Muay Thai fights but no one can find a record of these.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

IMC I'm not sure if anyone is saying that Manhoef would beat Anderson i think the point is Manhoef would give Anderson trouble standing.

And just for the record I saw nothing in Henderson vs Anderson that made me change my opinion that a great wrestler with great top control would give Anderson fits.


----------



## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> IMC I'm not sure if anyone is saying that Manhoef would beat Anderson i think the point is Manhoef would give Anderson trouble standing.
> 
> And just for the record I saw nothing in Henderson vs Anderson that made me change my opinion that a great wrestler with great top control would give Anderson fits.


The problem with this is that you have to get Anderson down and in his fights with Franklin, Marquadt, and Henderson he showed good TDD IMO. I also think he has a great ground game. 

The more I think about the K-1 thing, I think in his fight with Leben Rogan said he had K-1 like striking not that he had fought there.


----------



## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

I think people are confusing the terms can and would.


----------



## SILVA>ALL (Jul 22, 2008)

IcemanCometh said:


> I just love how it use to be a great wrestler like Henderson was his kryptonite and now its a great striker.


IcemanCometh, good on you for pointing out the shifty standard.

He squeezed Hendo's neck until his bloodshot eyes were nearly popping out of his head, out-wrestled a so called Abu-Dhabi veteran to the ground before hammering him to sleep and made Lutter smell his salty balls as his head turned blue in a triangle choke -- THAT'S WHY THE STANDARD IS SHIFTING. 

Anything to undermine the dude.

Anderson Silva, as he put it before, has been doing Muay Tai since he was a boy, and it shows. No K1 resume is enough to dismiss his extraordinary stand-up, no more than Marquardt's Abu Dhabi success dismissed Anderson's wrestling acumen.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

IcemanCometh said:


> The problem with this is that you have to get Anderson down and in his fights with Franklin, Marquadt, and Henderson he showed good TDD IMO. I also think he has a great ground game.
> 
> The more I think about the K-1 thing, I think in his fight with Leben Rogan said he had K-1 like striking not that he had fought there.


Anderson does have a great ground game not top notch but it is great and his TDD is solid.

However what I saw in the first round of Henderson vs Silva made me think a wrestler with good top control would beat Anderson.

Not because Henderson did any damage but because get him down and lie on him for 5 rounds because Anderson isn't that dangerous off his back.

And spare me the talk about subbing Lutter the guy is a fatass who gassed and got upkicked.

It's not like Anderson caught Lutter when he was in his guard.


----------



## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

If I'm listening to anyone on this matchup it's Mike Passenier, you know Melvin's trainer (who also trains Badr Hari)



> How do you think a matchup between Melvin and Anderson Silva would work out?
> 
> Well, Anderson Silva is a very good fighter. He's good both on the ground and standing up. He makes excellent counters. This fight was supposed to happen a couple of years ago in Cage Rage. So we studied him a bit, but I think Melvin is sharp and very quick. He's also very strong. Anderson has good knees and good reflexes, but Melvin is very quick.
> 
> ...


----------



## SILVA>ALL (Jul 22, 2008)

bbjd7 said:


> Not because Henderson did any damage but because get him down and lie on him for 5 rounds because Anderson isn't that dangerous off his back.


And the ref won't stnd you up, right? You have, debateably, the most exciting stand-up MMA fighter in the world today and you think the ref will just let some wrestler pull a Rashad against him for 5 rounds? Eh, somehow I doubt that they're _that_ impartial.



> And spare me the talk about subbing Lutter the guy is a fatass who gassed and got upkicked.
> 
> It's not like Anderson caught Lutter when he was in his guard.


Of course, he's merely a "fatass"...a fatass who probably is so fat that his BJJ black belt doesn't fit anymore. You can only be a talented bjj black belt if the belt still fits, right?

Soon, you'll be bemoaning the "fatness" and thus, presumably, inadequateness of every MW fighter in the world - particularly if Anderson's streak continues to his retirement.


----------



## brownpimp88 (Jun 22, 2006)

MLS, what you quoted is very similar to what I suggested in my earlier post. I guess his trainer and I share similar views for how to beat Anderson.



valrond said:


> Wow, it seems that it is you that don't know Anderson Silva. The Spider eats those reckless guys for breakfast. It just takes a tiny mistake vs Anderson and you're done. If the guy is reckless, he's as good as dead.


Haha, did you even read my entire post before making dumb statements?

If you read the post, I clearly stated how Manhoef would be able to beat Anderson, and it wasn't by being reckless.

Read son.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

SILVA>ALL said:


> And the ref won't stnd you up, right? You have, debateably, the most exciting stand-up MMA fighter in the world today and you think the ref will just let some wrestler pull a Rashad against him for 5 rounds? Eh, somehow I doubt that they're _that_ impartial.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


#1 Henderson lied on him for a round and didn't get stood up. As long as you stay active you can keep it on the ground something like what Frankie Edgar did to Franca and Fisher.

#2 No one said he's not skilled but tapping him doesn't mean Anderson is a great grappler off his back. He doesn't just catch guys in submissions.


----------



## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

brownpimp88 said:


> MLS, what you quoted is very similar to what I suggested in my earlier post. I guess his trainer and I share similar views for how to beat Anderson.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Of course I read it, and if the outcome is a dumb statement, it's because of what you wrote. You said the guy is aggresive and sometimes reckless. Silva is an excellent counterpuncher, or is he not?. Melvin overcommits, as he's aggresive, reckless, short, and without reach, and Silva makes one of his showcase pinpoint accurate combinations and the guy is out.


Look, there is a reason why that Melvin whatever is fighting and dream, and not winning. He can't beat Silva, he doesn't even deserve to fight Anderson Silva, he would have to work his way up before he gets a shot.

A fighter whose bigger win is Ian Freeman can't even dream of beating Anderson Silva.

And they call Anderson Silva fans nuthuggers when we say that. Ok, now if I say something stupid like that Klitschko, the boxing HW champ would stand a chance of beating Fedor standing, what would you say?


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> However what I saw in the first round of Henderson vs Silva made me think a wrestler with good top control would beat Anderson.


I think it takes someone with not only great wrestling but a great passing game who will offer the most problems. I thought before that Dan was a really bad match-up, but during the fight, I realized how wrong I was because Henderson's BJJ is no threat to an opponent when they're on their back.

Stylistically, I'd say a takedown-artist with a great passing coupled with stellar top control would offer Anderson the biggest challenge. A guy like Filho, or to a lesser extent Palhares.




valrond said:


> Look, there is a reason why that Melvin whatever is fighting and dream, and not winning. He can't beat Silva, he doesn't even deserve to fight Anderson Silva, he would have to work his way up before he gets a shot.


What does him fighting in DREAM have to do with anything? And he *has* been winning fights, having lost to only two amazing judokas---Dong Sik Yoon and Akiyama---since 2004. 

I know you're a Silva fan, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But you need to recognize that Melvin presents technical abilities in the standing position that Anderson has not, and will not face in the UFC MW division at this time.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Fedor>ALL Henderson is just really overrated IMO. He's not that good at 185.

Now I think guys like Filho would give him problems as well but I think all it'll take is good top control and good wrstling.

I Henderson has all those things but he's also stupid so he couldn't follow a simple gameplan.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> Fedor>ALL Henderson is just really overrated IMO. He's not that good at 185.
> 
> Now I think guys like Filho would give him problems as well but I think all it'll take is good top control and good wrstling.
> 
> I Henderson has all those things but he's also stupid so he couldn't follow a simple gameplan.


I agree that Dan Henderson's over-rated, his career defining moment is certainly his victory over Wanderlei. Like you said, Dan had the skill to bring the fight to the ground, but he lacked the skill to do absolutely anything from that position. I want to see someone take Silva down, then work for passes right away. 

Hell, I think even guys with judo backgrounds could present problems to Silva, because a lot of hip throws and trips can shy Silva away from the clinch game---like Miura's judo took away Condit's knees. If Anderson is sent to the mat by a trip or throw, the opponent will most likely not fall into his guard, instead they'd most likely fall into side control/half-guard where they could proceed to work ground and pound and/or potential submissions.

There's definitely a bad match-up for Silva out there, he just needs to make his name known in the UFC.


----------



## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> I agree that Dan Henderson's over-rated, his career defining moment is certainly his victory over Wanderlei. Like you said, Dan had the skill to bring the fight to the ground, but he lacked the skill to do absolutely anything from that position. I want to see someone take Silva down, then work for passes right away.
> 
> Hell, I think even guys with judo backgrounds could present problems to Silva, because a lot of hip throws and trips can shy Silva away from the clinch game---like Miura's judo took away Condit's knees. If Anderson is sent to the mat by a trip or throw, the opponent will most likely not fall into his guard, instead they'd most likely fall into side control/half-guard where they could proceed to work ground and pound and/or potential submissions.
> 
> There's definitely a bad match-up for Silva out there, he just needs to make his name known in the UFC.


Yes, he's a bad match up for Silva. Oh, wait, haven't I read that before?. About every time Silva stepped into the octagon, the other guy was a bad matchup, just until he got murdered.

Why don't we make a thread about unknowns that can beat Fedor?.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

valrond said:


> Yes, he's a bad match up for Silva. Oh, wait, haven't I read that before?. About every time Silva stepped into the octagon, the other guy was a bad matchup, just until he got murdered.


The only time anyone has been ever considered a "bad match-up" for Anderson is Dan Henderson, there's really no need to exaggerate your point. Henderson showed that Anderson can be controlled on the ground, but Henderson lacks the ground game to make a substantial threat to Silva on the ground---as Silva's guard is very good thanks to his length.



valrond said:


> Why don't we make a thread about unknowns that can beat Fedor?.


Why don't we just talk about Barnett who offers that very possibility? Have we seen Anderson Silva face anyone with excellent takedowns, top control/passing abilities? Not yet. But we've seen Fedor in all sorts of terrible positions---such as being underneath Nogueira and managing to reverse him with ease. Anderson's completely dominated no doubt, but there are aspects of his game that still generate questions, questions that shall eventually be answered.


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

> A fighter whose bigger win is Ian Freeman can't even dream of beating Anderson Silva.


These kind of comments sort of annoy me. It's about styles, not wins. 

I really want to see Palhares vs Silva. Maybe we will once Palhares rips Henderson's limbs off and Silva punches Patrick Cote in the face a lot. I also think that it'll take a strong sub fighter with unlimited cardio to beat Anderson.


----------



## SILVA>ALL (Jul 22, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> There's definitely a bad match-up for Silva out there, he just needs to make his name known in the UFC.


How about for Fedor?

Is there "a bad match-up" for him out there or is he, unlike mortals like Anderson Silva, indomitable?


----------



## BloodJunkie (Jun 18, 2007)

valrond said:


> Ok, now if I say something stupid like that Klitschko, the boxing HW champ would stand a chance of beating Fedor *standing*, what would you say?


Actually that wouldn't be that stupid of a statement if the question was if Klitschko had a chance *STANDING*. Klitschko would have a chance standing. While Klitschko is not overly impressive IMO he is still a world class boxer. 

The biggest flaw that I see in this comparison with the discussion about Manhoef and Silva is the fact that Klitschko is a strict boxer and not a KICKBOXER/MUAY THAI fighter. Obviously having a strict boxing backround leaves a disadvantage when facing Kickboxers because they don't have the kicks and experience checking kicks and defending kicks like kickboxers do.


----------



## SILVA>ALL (Jul 22, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> But we've seen Fedor in all sorts of terrible positions---such as being underneath Nogueira and managing to reverse him with ease.


Fedor>all, do you have an equal zeal to elaborate on who could beat Fedor and how, or do you really believe that Fedor was given superpowers by Jehovah and no one lives who can beat him? LOL!

We seem eager to disprove that Anderson can beat all, rightfully labelling it a silly notion, but we're tentative about shattering our own delusions.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

SILVA>ALL said:


> How about for Fedor?
> 
> Is there "a bad match-up" for him out there or is he, unlike mortals like Anderson Silva, indomitable?


IMO A strong grappler with takedowns who can put Fedor on his back is a bad match up for him which is why if Werdum or Barnett could put Fedor on the back I think they would give him a hell of a time.


----------



## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

valrond said:


> Ok, now if I say something stupid like that Klitschko, the boxing HW champ would stand a chance of beating Fedor standing, what would you say?


Try another comparision because that one sucks. Also he is a HW boxing champ, not the HW boxing champ.


----------



## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

Too bad it will never happen. Let say the guy gets signed to the UFC, he won't get a title shot right away. So he fight a guy like Marquat, Henderson, Okami, or Swick first. All these guys easily ground and pound him easily. Maybe he will get to tap out to a guy like Leites. Look he's a mid level fighter at best who doesn't even deserve a shot at Silva.


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

SILVA>ALL said:


> How about for Fedor?
> 
> Is there "a bad match-up" for him out there or is he, unlike mortals like Anderson Silva, indomitable?





SILVA>ALL said:


> Fedor>all, do you have an equal zeal to elaborate on who could beat Fedor and how, or do you really believe that Fedor was given superpowers by Jehovah and no one lives who can beat him? LOL!
> 
> We seem eager to disprove that Anderson can beat all, rightfully labelling it a silly notion, but we're tentative about shattering our own delusions.


Try a little searching. He already said in I believe this thread and prolly a few others that Barnett would stand a good chance of beating Fedor.


----------



## brownpimp88 (Jun 22, 2006)

valrond said:


> Of course I read it, and if the outcome is a dumb statement, it's because of what you wrote. You said the guy is aggresive and sometimes reckless. Silva is an excellent counterpuncher, or is he not?. Melvin overcommits, as he's aggresive, reckless, short, and without reach, and Silva makes one of his showcase pinpoint accurate combinations and the guy is out.
> 
> 
> Look, there is a reason why that Melvin whatever is fighting and dream, and not winning. He can't beat Silva, he doesn't even deserve to fight Anderson Silva, he would have to work his way up before he gets a shot.
> ...


Wow, you are really ignorant. 

This is what I said:


> Manhoef is not just a "brawler" or "one punch KO fighter" like a lot of you guys think. If you had a clue, you'd know that he is a really talented kickboxer, with an agressive and often reckless style in MMA. It seems to be working for him too, as that 22-4-1 record I was talking about, it's in MMA, not K-1. Anderson Silva does have high level striking, but it has never been tested by someone at the elite level. Rich Franklin may be a top tier MMA striker, that's it.
> 
> As for how the matchup would go, it would be simple. Anderson would be trying to use his reach to his advantage and keep Melvin at bay, and then try to explode when he sees openings. The ideal fight for Melvin would be to take the center of the cage and work his way in and out, landing power shots, set up by his awesome(rarely used) leg kicks. If Anderson tries to clinch, I think that would speak big trouble for him. That is how the fight would work out on the feet.
> 
> ...


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

SILVA>ALL said:


> How about for Fedor?
> 
> Is there "a bad match-up" for him out there or is he, unlike mortals like Anderson Silva, indomitable?





SILVA>ALL said:


> Fedor>all, do you have an equal zeal to elaborate on who could beat Fedor and how, or do you really believe that Fedor was given superpowers by Jehovah and no one lives who can beat him? LOL!
> 
> We seem eager to disprove that Anderson can beat all, rightfully labelling it a silly notion, but we're tentative about shattering our own delusions.


How about reading my full posts, jackass?:

*valrond:*



> Why don't we make a thread about unknowns that can beat Fedor?.


*Me:*


> Why don't we just talk about Barnett who offers that very possibility? Have we seen Anderson Silva face anyone with excellent takedowns, top control/passing abilities? Not yet. But we've seen Fedor in all sorts of terrible positions---such as being underneath Nogueira and managing to reverse him with ease. Anderson's completely dominated no doubt, but there are aspects of his game that still generate questions, questions that shall eventually be answered.


Maybe adjusting Anderson's nutsack from over your eyes would help you read posts better?


----------



## Where'stheCrow? (Nov 28, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> How about reading my full posts, jackass?:
> 
> Maybe adjusting Anderson's nutsack from over your eyes would help you read posts better?


You guys take this shit too personal.


----------



## SILVA>ALL (Jul 22, 2008)

Where'stheCrow? said:


> You guys take this shit too personal.


Where'stheCrow?, well put.

I was going to foolishly respond in kind then I thought the wiser.

I only permit myself a very tiny quota of things to get mad about within a year...online squabbles about professional fighters that are neither family nor friend is not one of them.

In questioning the MMA divinity of Fedor, I've often received angry diatribes and negative reps for a wage and even worse for my praise of Anderson Silva's merits.

If not bowing down to Fedor, the Allah or Mohammed of MMA ---since he evokes such irrational and angry tirades, it's irreverant blasphemy to Fedophiles.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

SILVA>ALL said:


> Where'stheCrow?, well put.
> 
> I was going to foolishly respond in kind then I thought the wiser.
> 
> ...


I simply pointed out that perhaps you should actually read what I say, before making assumptions about my posts. It's sad that you can't admit fault, seeing as you're the one who called me out for blindly following Fedor when I pointed out a clear threat to him. 

Also, it's pretty evident that you care about bickering with people online regarding fighters, judging by your relentless defense of Silva. No one has attacked him here, we've just theorized potential match-ups that could pose threats to him, only to receive unrelated retorts (ex: Your flimsical and clearly delusional argument with Fedor) and quick denunciations of said fighters that could challenge Silva.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Fedor>ALL this has gone to far.

I can deal with you and I agreeing on things but when you start to get into fights with my trolls I draw the line.

Come On Fedor>All you and I can get along but this is going to far I mean getting into arguments with Acoustic that's my troll get your own.


----------



## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

:sarcastic02:


----------



## SILVA>ALL (Jul 22, 2008)

bbjd7 said:


> Fedor>ALL this has gone to far.
> 
> I can deal with you and I agreeing on things but when you start to get into fights with my trolls I draw the line.
> 
> Come On Fedor>All you and I can get along but this is going to far I mean getting into arguments with Acoustic that's my troll get your own.


Yeah, brand me a troll in the hopes that you'd dissuade me from debating your obsessive efforts against Andesron Silva.

I'm not so fickle minded, bud.

Anderson Silva is not immortal. Unless he retires before the time, he's bound to lose in the future, just as will Fedor.

You're just too obsessively impatient and eager about seeing it happen because Silva disrupts your cozy preconceptions about what an elite fighter is.

This debate is never a matter of fact, but opinion. Your opinion is that I obsess over defending Anderson Silva, mine is that Silva's success haunts you insane...*for some peculiar reason*. It's become your strange disposition.

Negative rep me, brand me stupid and ill informed or call me a troll...by the rights we are guaranteed living in the free world, you have licence. *But the fact remains, no one is more obsessed with Anderson Silva than YOU. BBJD7...not even Anderson's most ardent fans.*


----------



## brownpimp88 (Jun 22, 2006)

Someone named Silva>all is saying others are obsessed with Anderson? I mean I like the guy as a fighter and I think he is one of the greatest fighters right now, but come on, I wouldn't name myself after the guy.

Really, this thread was intended to be less about Anderson Silva's nuts, and more about whether Manhoef could hang with him on the feet.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> Fedor>ALL this has gone to far.
> 
> I can deal with you and I agreeing on things but when you start to get into fights with my trolls I draw the line.
> 
> Come On Fedor>All you and I can get along but this is going to far I mean getting into arguments with Acoustic that's my troll get your own.


lol, sorry, I didn't mean to impede on your turf bro. :laugh:



SILVA>ALL said:


> Yeah, brand me a troll in the hopes that you'd dissuade me from debating your obsessive efforts against Andesron Silva.
> 
> I'm not so fickle minded, bud.
> 
> ...


How haven't you acted like a troll though? As soon as you thought I was being a hypocrite you basically called me delusional. When I pointed out that you didn't read my post, you failed to see you were the one in the wrong. I read your posts before I respond to them, at least return the favor before you call me out on it. :dunno:

PS: I don't negative rep people, I respect your opinion---like everyone else's---as you're entitled to it. I enjoy reading every user's posts around here because it offers me a broader perspective on topics and I feel like I gain something from it, so why should I neg rep someone for offering me further insight? It really doesn't make sense.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

You caught me I stay up all night dreaming about ways for Anderson to lose.

All my 6,000+ posts are focused on Anderson losing.


----------



## brownpimp88 (Jun 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> You caught me I stay up all night dreaming about ways for Anderson to lose.
> 
> All my 6,000+ posts are focused on Anderson losing.


Holy crap, you have 6000+ posts, but you still haven't explained what bbjd stands for.

Anyways, can we please get this conversation back to Anderson Silva vs. Melvin Manhoef in the stand up realm. Or I may have to use my super powers. You've been warned.


----------



## SILVA>ALL (Jul 22, 2008)

bbjd7 said:


> You caught me I stay up all night dreaming about ways for Anderson to lose.
> 
> All my 6,000+ posts are focused on Anderson losing.


Just about...yeah. :wink01:

Back to the bias-stuffed opinions as per the moderator's request, though.


----------



## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

I tend to agree with a professional who thinks that Melvin can hang with Anderson on the feet.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

McCain said:


> I dont see anyone beating silva right now, especially that nobody.
> 
> If fedor dropped to around 230 and he fought silva at 205, silva would destroy fedor.


Fedor walks around at 230, please don't make stupid comments because you're ignorant to the facts. 

:thumbsdown:


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

BP haha well I actually was thinking about what you were putting and yea I defiantly thinking he would benfit from being at a top gym.

However I think he should at least go train with Overeem.


----------



## SILVA>ALL (Jul 22, 2008)

McCain said:


> I dont see anyone beating silva right now, especially that nobody.
> 
> If fedor dropped to around 230 and he fought silva at 205, silva would destroy fedor.


I don't know if I agree that Siva would "destroy" Fedor at 205, Fedor's a man-beast.

But I don't know if I'd agree that Fedor would maul Silva at 205 as though Silva was as light-witted as Tim Sylvia either.

The thing to me that separates a Fedor, St Pierre or Silva form a Manhoeuf is the deliberation of every strike, the calculation of every motion. I think Manhoeuf is talented, physically, but he seems a dice-roller to me, not a poker player.


----------



## The Dude Abides (Jul 8, 2008)

Are the UFC looking at these guys? Sprong and Manhoef for example. They look sick on the feet and you'd imagine exactly the type of fighters the UFC would want? I'm completely ignorant to the whole K-1 thing tbh. So apologies if seems i'm making out that K-1 is unimportant and that the UFC is the only place to be. Not my intention.


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

No the UFC isn't looking at them as far as we know. Manhoef is fighting in the DREAM MWGP right now and Spong is either fighting in K-1 or other Muay Thai fights.


----------



## The Dude Abides (Jul 8, 2008)

mjbish23 said:


> No the UFC isn't looking at them as far as we know. Manhoef is fighting in the DREAM MWGP right now and Spong is either fighting in K-1 or other Muay Thai fights.


And how do these guys look at MMA and the UFC? Would they view it as a step-up and would it be their ultimate goal? Stuff like that. No suggesting you know their personal thoughts, but how do you think they view it?


----------



## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

You know, I'm the kind of guy who hates making opinions without having knowledge of something. Up until an hour or so, the only knowledge I had from this Melvin Mahoef came from what others said in this forum, and what I read in the Wikipedia. From those sources, I thought the guy to be some kind of power freak with reckless attacks (21 out of 22 wins by KO), the kind of guy that Anderson eats for breakfast.

So about an hour ago I went to youtube and watch a few fights. I couldn't find two of the most recent ones: vs Dae Won Kim and vs Nishijima. But I watched all the other recent ones: vs Sakuraba, Silva, Ackah, Dong Sik Yoon (his last loss), Takahashi, Akiyana, oyama, and a few older ones, vs Freeman, Schrijber and Ilmen.

That's one of the good things of watching a KO artist: the fights go out very fast.

From what I saw, the guy is pretty good (vs that competition that is). He's not reckless or overly aggresive. He takes his time to attack, picks his shots, and doesn't commit if he cant't hit. He's a smart striker, and very, very fast. And, of course, he has KO power, 1 punch KO power like Irvin (and that's where the comparison ends). So he is very dangerous.

However, not everything is good. As I said before in other posts, his short reach plays against him, specially if we pit him vs something like Silva. He will need a lot of speed to get in range and attack before Silva hits him. Silva can outreach him and play with him like BJ did with Sherk. But still, the danger is there.

In the fight vs Takahashi he showed a good TD defense, but I don't know how good the TD ability of Takahashi is, so I'll take that with a grain of salt. In his to submission losses, he didn't have a good ground game. In both of them he was quickly mounted and subsequently the judokas performed the Juji gatame (armbar).

As a summary, he's an exciting fighter, very good striker, quick, smart, taking his time to attack, decent TDD and suspect ground game. The UFC should sign him, he'll help selling tickets and PPVs.

I still think he wouldn't beat Silva, neither standing, or the clinch, or on the ground, but he'd have a chance of beating him standing, at least a real one, not like Patrick Cote.

Oh, and while watching those fights, I found Godzilla vs King Kong (Hong Man Choi vs Bob Sapp, K-1 fight). And Bruce Buffer was the announcer!. I didn't like it at all, Bob Sapp striking is sloppier than Lesnar's, he gasses after the first round, and the fight is constanly stopped by the ref to make room between the fighters to continue.


I want to thank the people of this forum, specially the ones with a deep MMA knowledge, Like Fedor>All, mjbish23, the mods, and others, for their time and opinions, I always learn something reading this forum, and for making me know more exciting fighters.

About Fedor>All, despite the nickname, he's not a Fedor nuthugger, he's a Fedor fan, which is quite different, and I have a profound respect for his opinions, sharing many of them.

As for the Fedor-Silva, well, it is not a matter of this thread, but I think Fedor would take it, but Silva would have a pretty good chance of beating Fedor. Emelianenko is the best and most complete fighter in the world. Silva is the only one that comes close.

Cheers from Spain.


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

The Dude Abides said:


> And how do these guys look at MMA and the UFC? Would they view it as a step-up and would it be their ultimate goal? Stuff like that. No suggesting you know their personal thoughts, but how do you think they view it?


Many K-1 fighters have fought in MMA before. Manhoef is fighting in DREAM, Semmy Schilt has fought in Pride, Mo Smith fought in Pride and the UFC, there's a ton of other ones I just can't remember everyone that from K-1 that has fought in MMA. I don't know if they look at it as a step up since it the level of striking is a step down.

Edit: Valrond if you liked his MMA fights check out some of his K-1 fights. K-1 is so much more exciting then MMA I think you'll like it.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

valrond said:


> You know, I'm the kind of guy who hates making opinions without having knowledge of something. Up until an hour or so, the only knowledge I had from this Melvin Mahoef came from what others said in this forum, and what I read in the Wikipedia. From those sources, I thought the guy to be some kind of power freak with reckless attacks (21 out of 22 wins by KO), the kind of guy that Anderson eats for breakfast.
> 
> So about an hour ago I went to youtube and watch a few fights. I couldn't find two of the most recent ones: vs Dae Won Kim and vs Nishijima. But I watched all the other recent ones: vs Sakuraba, Silva, Ackah, Dong Sik Yoon (his last loss), Takahashi, Akiyana, oyama, and a few older ones, vs Freeman, Schrijber and Ilmen.
> 
> ...


No, thank you for being open minded. I've always held your opinion in high regard, and even moreso now that you went to the effort to check out Melvin based on what the others and I have said. I greatly respect the fact that you're willing to continually expand your knowledge, that's really an admirable quality and it makes your posts a treat to read. Thanks for defending my username lol, I love MMA and Fedor just happens to be someone I greatly admire, and forms a strong inspiration for me through my own training.

Thanks again man, rep to you. :thumb02:




mjbish23 said:


> Many K-1 fighters have fought in MMA before. Manhoef is fighting in DREAM, Semmy Schilt has fought in Pride, Mo Smith fought in Pride and the UFC, there's a ton of other ones I just can't remember everyone that from K-1 that has fought in MMA. I don't know if they look at it as a step up since it the level of striking is a step down.
> 
> Edit: Valrond if you liked his MMA fights check out some of his K-1 fights. *K-1 is so much more exciting then MMA I think you'll like it.*



O NO U DI'NT.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Valrond I really respect the fact you did some research and was willing to dmit you changed your opinion once you gained more knowledge.


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> O NO U DI'NT.


I know it's blasphemy but it's so much more fast paced in K-1. MMA can be a little slow at times. Don't get me wrong I still love me some MMA tho.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

mjbish23 said:


> I know it's blasphemy but it's so much more fast paced in K-1. MMA can be a little slow at times. Don't get me wrong I still love me some MMA tho.


I think it's a different kind of excitement though, because it's sort of limited by comparison. It's like an exciting version of boxing, MMA still holds my heart in it's manly hands. :laugh:


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> I think it's a different kind of excitement though, because it's sort of limited by comparison. It's like an exciting version of boxing, MMA still holds my heart in it's manly hands. :laugh:


Yeah I see what you're saying. K-1 is like watching MMA standup on steroids. It is like an exciting version of boxing.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

mjbish23 said:


> Yeah I see what you're saying. K-1 is like watching MMA standup on steroids. It is like an exciting version of boxing.


Yeah exactly! It's really exciting to theorize the prospects of certain MMA fighters mixing it up with k-1 strikers in pure stand-up affairs. The UFC MW division really doesn't have any strikers that pose any threats to Silva standing. :thumbsdown:


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> Yeah exactly! It's really exciting to theorize the prospects of certain MMA fighters mixing it up with k-1 strikers in pure stand-up affairs. The UFC MW division really doesn't have any strikers that pose any threats to Silva standing. :thumbsdown:


I think it would be awesome to see a Muay Thai match against like Anderson and Andy Souwer or Anderson and Buakaw. I guarantee it would be one of the most exciting stand up battles ever. Chuck wouldn't be that bad in K-1 either but he might not be aggressive enough. I wish that they could do cross promotional things like that where K-1 sends over some of their fighters that have trained on the ground to fight MMA fights and the UFC or other MMA orgs could send over their best stand up fighters to fight in K-1. It would be so fun to watch.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

mjbish23 said:


> I think it would be awesome to see a Muay Thai match against like Anderson and Andy Souwer or Anderson and Buakaw. I guarantee it would be one of the most exciting stand up battles ever. Chuck wouldn't be that bad in K-1 either but he might not be aggressive enough. I wish that they could do cross promotional things like that where K-1 sends over some of their fighters that have trained on the ground to fight MMA fights and the UFC or other MMA orgs could send over their best stand up fighters to fight in K-1. It would be so fun to watch.


Couldn't agree more, I loved when Rampage fought Abidi in k1 and whooped him twice! Although more competitive match-ups would certainly be more appreciated! :laugh:


----------

