# Why is everyone treating tis like a domination



## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Ok first I will say hats off to silva congradulations on a good win. 

Now that being said lots of silva fans are going on and on about how great silva is and how much better he is but I don't see this at all. I mean seriously I am much more impressed by his victory in the first fight than the second one. I look at the fight and Chael was doing good and on his way to giving silva a run for his money the he through a bs spinning back fist tripped and landed on his ass and silva capitalized. It doest take a whole lot of talent to knee a guy who is sitting on the ground with his back to the cage. 

Pulling off that triangle in their first fight was very impressive I thought however keeing sonnen sitting on his butt after he tripped is not that big a deal. Had sonnet nit tripped this could have gone completely different. Maybe silva would have knoced him out latter putting together some combos or maybe Chael would have grinder out the UD we will never know. However that fight I see was nothing other than capitalizing on a stupid mistak which I think many fighters on the UFC roster could have done not out classing and dominating the opponet. 


I would love to see the fight one more time when they are both at their best and nither of them make a screw up like that and ruins the fight.


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## Sevman (Jun 14, 2008)

"It doest take a whole lot of talent to knee a guy who is sitting on the ground with his back to the cage."

It doesn't take a whole lot of talent to damage someone in full mount.

Sonnen COULD NOT capitalize on Anderson's mistake of running out to throw fists and getting taken down - AS DID capitalize on the mistake by Sonnen.

Every sport/championship is about capitalizing on mistakes (turnovers, errors, bad game plans, etc.).

CHAMPIONS know how to do this better than the rest.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

I know what you mean. Chael lost more so because he made a mistake than because Silva implemented his gameplan. Not to take any credit away from Silva. He captitilized on Chael's mistake and got a win because of it. I just feel like this fight leaves a lot of questions unanswered. 

As much as I would love to see them fight again, it'll never happen. It's really hard to sell a third fight between the same guys nevermind the fact Silva finished him twice.


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## Sevman (Jun 14, 2008)

Plus that one mistake wasn't what cost him the fight.

Let's not forget that Sonnen GOT BACK UP after the slip-knee to chest. Sonnen tried to swing when he got up???? <poor choice> then before he could grapple, Silva held him back with one arm and punched with his right - and knocked him down <impressive>.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Anderson finished the fight with the first real opportunity he had. Infact, it wasn't even a real opportunity to finish the fight. I can't think of any other fighter that would have finished so quickly in that situation. That's why he's the greatest, you screw up for one second and he will end you. 

Anderson at 225lbs vs JDS at 238lbs is very interesting to me. Andy wins IMO.


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## Zafersan (Nov 18, 2008)

Silva is so good that he makes his opponents do mistakes.


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## Ludinator (Mar 15, 2012)

Silva's gameplan worked well in the second round when Sonnen couldn't take him down. Why the excuses?.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

What mistake did Chael make? That spinning back fist is a move he practices do a youtube search on his hook kick back fist combo. Silva ducked it and he fell, there is no mistake it just got counter well. How many fighters not named ANderson Silva would have timed that and ducked it?

Why was it domination? Chael got stuff on 3 take down attempts, and got finished. SIlva dropped him with a right hand, and GNP him. The only difference is Chael was attacking when past opponents would freeze up. Name me one time where Chael has been TKO?

Look at the so call mistake? Is it a mistake on Chael's part or attribution to Silva's skills? Realistically Chael saw a man with his hands down and tried to hit him, but SIlva used his legendary head movement and got him like okami,forrest,franklin,etc.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

Well TBH, Silva did stop ALL of Chaels takedown-attempts in the second, he then proceeds to duck away from a spinning elbow, classic Silva matrix style making Sonnen drop on his ass, only to finish him with GNP, I don't see how u can take that credit away from Silva.

Saying it doesn't take much talent to knee someone sitting down is like saying it doesn't take much talent to win a fight by wrestling, you just hold a guy down and punch him in the face, that's not so hard right?


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## rul3z (Jun 27, 2010)

americanfighter said:


> It doest take a whole lot of talent to knee a guy who is sitting on the ground with his back to the cage.


And did Silva say: hey sonnen, stay on your butt for me to knee you?

LooooL, even the challenger said I have no excuses! But it seems that the fans have.

Guys, AS is the best MMA fighter in History (PERIOD).


Just look at this:









Is this a fight or a Van Damn Hollywood movie? Even in movies you don't see stuff like that a lot


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

It takes AMAZING talent to pinpoint a knee to the body like that without so much as touching the head and right through his arms raised to block, and break a guy's will from a single strike to the body. When have you EVER seen a guy curl up from something like that while on the ground? 

It takes AMAZING talent to just completely time, dodge and duck under a spinning attack like that and make the guy go flying from his own momentum. Chael didn't screw up, Anderson dodged his strike completely and MADE him whiff.

Chael fans are really grasping for straws now aren't they? Fact is silva did exactly what he said he would, and Chael did the exact opposite and got DOMINATED like we expected the cheating coward to.

You will not get to see another fight because this guy got finished twice and got destroyed the second time. There is no rubber match for 2-time losers. It's the end of the road for chael.


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## rul3z (Jun 27, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> You will not get to see another fight because this guy got finished twice and got destroyed the second time. There is no rubber match for 2-time losers. It's the end of the road for chael.


Rubber match for a guy who got:
1st submitted!
2nd TKO fu***ed up!!!

I liked your quote, the Chael fans need to realize FACTS not HOPES !!!

Anderson is the best.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Yeah, this idea that Chael lost the fight rather than Silva winning is utter nonsense.

Silva came in smarter in the second round and simply waited for the takedown instead of rushing in. After he knew he could stuff Chael, and, probably after Chael knew he couldn't take Silva down anymore, the game was up. No one stands with Silva and doesn't get dominated (I concede their are spare exceptions). Silva was landing again with his patented precision, when that happens, it doesn't usually last long, and it didn't

On the spinning backfist: Sure,don't give credit to Silva for ducking it at all, because we've seen that how many times in MMA?

On the knee: Again, where have you seen someone use a knee to damage their opponent on the ground from that position AND use it to gain position and pin his opponent down for GNP. Where have seen anybody knee a grounded opponent to the front of their chest? 

People, it isn't actually that easy, Silva just makes it look that way.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

To the OP.











To the admins:
Can i have this gif as sig just for a week? 
Please, please, please, please!!! ray02:ray02:ray02:ray02:ray02:


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> I look at the fight and Chael was doing good and on his way to giving silva a run for his money the he through a bs spinning back fist tripped and landed on his ass and silva capitalized. It doest take a whole lot of talent to knee a guy who is sitting on the ground with his back to the cage.
> 
> I would love to see the fight one more time when they are both at their best and nither of them make a screw up like that and ruins the fight.


It doesn't take a whole bunch of talent to fall on your ass either. :confused02: Silva nicely ducked that punch and got on top, immideately finishing the fight where's Sonnen got full mount on RD1 without doing anything. On the feet, Silva showed his dominance and showed Sonnen how it's done.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

AmdM said:


> To the OP.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you can have it as your avy for as long as you like, just resize it like Budhi's.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Gifs aren't allowed in sigs.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Having gif's as sig is against the rules if i'm not in mistake.
Budhu has a pass cause he's a staff member, i guess.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Because Sonnen did nothing. He did nothing much last fight. And this fight he got a TD and did NOTHING with it. How does a guy get FULL MOUNT and the best he could dish from there were a few ear slaps? It is pathetic how inept Chael is at hurting his opponent.

Silva ran right into that TD. 2nd round he stuffed basically every TD attempt and made Chael look like a fool. Chael was so desperate once his TDs were stuffed that he threw a spinning falling down backfist.

A sub victory and a TKO in the 2nd. Can't do much more than that in 2 fights. 

Once Silva stuffed a TD it was all over. You could see it in his eyes.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

AmdM said:


> Having gif's as sig is against the rules if i'm not in mistake.
> Budhu has a pass cause he's a staff member, i guess.


Apologies for the misinformation


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

AlphaDawg said:


> I know what you mean. Chael lost more so because he made a mistake than because Silva implemented his gameplan. Not to take any credit away from Silva. He captitilized on Chael's mistake and got a win because of it. I just feel like this fight leaves a lot of questions unanswered.
> 
> As much as I would love to see them fight again, it'll never happen. It's really hard to sell a third fight between the same guys nevermind the fact Silva finished him twice.


People like you seem to forget that before Chael fell down like a goofball that Silva was stuffing his TDs with ease in the 2nd. What exactly was Sonnen going to do if he couldn't lay on Silva for a whole round?

Then because he couldn't complete a TD he threw some spinning crap because he was desperate as hell.

Fact is, Silva won that fight with TDD. From there he has superior skills everywhere including cardio and composure. 

Silva didn't win because he a guy fell down. He made Chael look like a clown the whole 2nd round.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Man, Osmium was spot on about Chaels ability to take a punch. He doesn't react well at all to getting hit hard.

That reaction to Silvas strikes was on par with Brock Lesnars and Bob Sapps classic moments.

I predicted Silva to win and Chael to jump ships to WWE. I stand by it.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Not really. 

No one has taken Silva's strikes well sans Cote..briefly. Even Dan Henderson was resorted to a flailing and falling down mook.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Roflcopter said:


> Not really.
> 
> No one has taken Silva's strikes well sans Cote..briefly. Even Dan Henderson was resorted to a flailing and falling down mook.


It was more so the look of defeat and actual fear on Chaels face which I was referring to. No doubt that knee must have really hurt, but I think he mentally broke more than any thing.

Hendo was swinging until the end, he didn't look scared. Chael literally looked terrified when he fell over and silva came crashing down with that knee.

Reminded me of Velasquez/Lesnar so much.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

AmdM said:


> Having gif's as sig is against the rules if i'm not in mistake.
> Budhu has a pass cause he's a staff member, i guess.


Nope. Budhisten (and myself) have gif avatars, which are allowed as long as they're short and low in size. Only supermods/admins can add them in however and they need to be in the correct dimensions (144px width by 168px length max for a premium member for example).

Gif sigs are not allowed. They're normally far too large and ruin page loading for people without super internet.


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## TOP (Apr 21, 2012)

MRBRESK said:


> Anderson at 225lbs vs JDS at 238lbs is very interesting to me. Andy wins IMO.



JDS would lay waste to him imo.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

So we're going to ignore all of the damage that Sonnen has taken and walked through his entire career because he didn't react well to being swarmed by Anderson? Do you people honestly not think your posts through? Sonnen can take a punch. It's as simple as going back and watching his previous fights. Eating shots to the face from Anderson Silva has turned many men into 'cowards'. Good Lord, the lack of thought some of you put into your posts is astounding, if not depressing. If you can't give Chael the credit he deserves, then as I said in another thread, you diminish Silva's victory. I see this so often from Silva fans (discrediting his opponents) that it's hard to take the 'Silva is the GOAT' talk seriously. If I were to believe you, he only beats mentally weak bums and overrated wrestlers. 

I'd not call the fight a 'domination' myself. You can all delude yourselves into believing otherwise, but the fact is, Silva lost the first round. Silva managed to defend well, but he wasn't able to get up off of his back. You can't simply ignore that failure to suit your own devices. The second round was domination, and only after Sonnen slipped and the knee was landed. Up until that point, Chael had cage control. You call it successful take down defence, and as do I, but Anderson was still defending. And 9 times out of 10, if you're defending, you're losing. We see wrestlers do nothing with cage control often and get the win. You know this. 

Dominating finish. But hardly a dominating fight. It would be the Silva fans who are reaching in that regard. Full credit to Anderson from me. Unlike many of you, I don't take away from these fighters to make myself feel good. Anderson finished Chael by TKO, starting with one of the nastier knees I've seen to the body. He won the fight. He's defeated Sonnen twice. That's the story here. 

And Sonnen finally did what most every man has done against Silva. He folded. If he'd stuck to putting on pressure against the cage and not giving up on his base, like he did with Bisping, things might have turned out differently. He wasn't able to land a couple of take-downs... I don't see that as a reason to give up entirely, especially when you landed one in the first and won the round. But then, most men abandon their strongpoints when fighting Anderson. The ability to frustrate his competition is another feat I often credit him with. He's a wizard in that area.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> Chael fans are really grasping for straws now aren't they? Fact is silva did exactly what he said he would, and Chael did the exact opposite and got DOMINATED like we expected the cheating coward to.
> 
> You will not get to see another fight because this guy got finished twice and got destroyed the second time. There is no rubber match for 2-time losers. It's the end of the road for chael.


Silva didn't do anything he said he would. He didn't finish in the first round, he didn't hurt Sonnen, he didn't brutalize him. None of the such. He absolutely did NOT dominate anyone. 

And wrong again. Rampage got a third fight after actually being dominated twice. Ken Shamrock got a third fight after being finished twice. Tito got a third fight with Chuck after being finished twice. These things do happen


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

TOP said:


> JDS would lay waste to him imo.


Can't lay to waste what you can't hit


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Silva didn't do anything he said he would. He didn't finish in the first round, *he didn't hurt Sonnen*, he didn't brutalize him. None of the such. He absolutely did NOT dominate anyone.
> 
> And wrong again. Rampage got a third fight after actually being dominated twice. Ken Shamrock got a third fight after being finished twice. Tito got a third fight with Chuck after being finished twice. These things do happen


I guess you missed the knee and fetal position part of the fight.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Canadian Psycho said:


> So we're going to ignore all of the damage that Sonnen has taken and walked through his entire career because he didn't react well to being swarmed by Anderson? Do you people honestly not think your posts through? Sonnen can take a punch. It's as simple as going back and watching his previous fights. Eating shots to the face from Anderson Silva has turned many men into 'cowards'. Good Lord, the lack of thought some of you put into your posts is astounding, if not depressing. If you can't give Chael the credit he deserves, then as I said in another thread, you diminish Silva's victory. I see this so often from Silva fans (discrediting his opponents) that it's hard to take the 'Silva is the GOAT' talk seriously. If I were to believe you, he only beats mentally weak bums and overrated wrestlers.
> 
> I'd not call the fight a 'domination' myself. You can all delude yourselves into believing otherwise, but the fact is, Silva lost the first round. Silva managed to defend well, but he wasn't able to get up off of his back. You can't simply ignore that failure to suit your own devices. The second round was domination, and only after Sonnen slipped and the knee was landed. Up until that point, Chael had cage control. You call it successful take down defence, and as do I, but Anderson was still defending. And 9 times out of 10, if you're defending, you're losing. We see wrestlers do nothing with cage control often and get the win. You know this.
> 
> ...


No one is ignoring any thing. Chael didn't react well to getting hit on the ground when he was in Andersons guard in the first fight, that was evident. There are also flashes of this awkwardness in the Michael Bisping fight. Bisping hits him, and Chael has this look of fear on his face. Go and re-watch the fight.

I wasn't having a huge dig at Chael, and there is absolutely no shame in mentally breaking to Anderson Silva in a cage. 90 percent of Andersons opponents break before they have even set foot in there.

I was just pointing out an interesting point made about Chaels ability to take a punch and his threshold for pain. Osmium summed it up perfectly in another thread, I'm hoping he joins this one to clarify.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Chael has one of the higher thresholds when it comes to pain. Once again, it doesn't take anymore than going out and watching a few of his past fights. Sonnen has always been regarded as one to take and walk through punches. I can agree with you in that it doesn't look as though he enjoys getting hit in the face, but then... neither do I. And I don't know many that do.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Silva didn't do anything he said he would. He didn't finish in the first round, he didn't hurt Sonnen, he didn't brutalize him. None of the such. He absolutely did NOT dominate anyone.
> 
> And wrong again. Rampage got a third fight after actually being dominated twice. Ken Shamrock got a third fight after being finished twice.* Tito got a third fight with Chuck after being finished twice. These things do happen*


Not in that case they don't. Chuck didn't fight Ortiz three times.

Chael got stuffed repeatedly, panicked and threw himself on the floor, then turtled up while getting pounded on. He offered no offence on the ground in the first round as well. Pretty one sided fight really.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Chael has one of the higher thresholds when it comes to pain. Once again, it doesn't take anymore than going out and watching a few of his past fights. Sonnen has always been regarded as one to take and walk through punches. I can agree with you in that it doesn't look as though he enjoys getting hit in the face, but then... neither do I. And I don't know many that do.












There's a gif from one of his past fights. Osmium also pointed out that Anderson hadn't fully sunk in the submission in the first fight and Chael had defended well, but still tapped out due to the pain.

I think it's quite clear that Chael doesn't react very well to pain at all.


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## Howeman89 (Jul 26, 2011)

I wasn't overly impressed with Silva tbh I think it was just a costly mistake which Silva took advantage of, Silva also partly cheated in the grabbing of the shorts to prevent Sonnen getting closer to attempt a take-down, Sonnen won't offer any excuses unlike Silva did in the 1st fight, I think Sonnen dominating the ground game in the 1st round showed that it had nothing to do with Silva's apparent rib injury as to why he controlled him. For Silva to be dubbed the "Greatest of all time" is abit dubious he won't fight Jon Jones or GSP, he's the best Middleweight than that's about it in my opinion


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

K R Y said:


> Not in that case they don't. Chuck didn't fight Ortiz three times.
> 
> Chael got stuffed repeatedly, panicked and threw himself on the floor, then turtled up while getting pounded on. He offered no offence on the ground in the first round as well. Pretty one sided fight really.


The fight was scheduled and going to happen. Tito pulled out due to injury and Franklin replaced. Still means he was granted a third fight.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

GrappleRetarded said:


> There's a gif from one of his past fights. Osmium also pointed out that Anderson hadn't fully sunk in the submission in the first fight and Chael had defended well, but still tapped out due to the pain.
> 
> I think it's quite clear that Chael doesn't react very well to pain at all.


He reacts well in that he's able to walk through it. Nate Marquardt hit him with some powerful shots, and Sonnen went into wrestling mode. Silva hit him with some powerful shots in their first bout, and Sonnen went into wrestling mode. Bisping hit him with some solid shots, and once again, Sonnen went into wrestling mode. I say react well in the sense that he can walk through quite a bit. Last night was one of the first times I've seen him get beat down via striking, but then, that's Anderson Silva for you.

The primary difference between Sonnen and Lesnar is that striking sends Lesnar flying backwards. Whereas Sonnen keeps pushing forward. I won't even insult the man by acknowledging your comparison to Bob Sapp. That's plain old ridiculous, that one.


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## kney (Jan 16, 2012)

Liddellianenko said:


> It takes AMAZING talent to pinpoint a knee to the body like that without so much as touching the head and right through his arms raised to block, and break a guy's will from a single strike to the body. When have you EVER seen a guy curl up from something like that while on the ground?
> 
> It takes AMAZING talent to just completely time, dodge and duck under a spinning attack like that and make the guy go flying from his own momentum. Chael didn't screw up, Anderson dodged his strike completely and MADE him whiff.
> 
> ...


It’s probably best to highlight a few FACTs because people seem to be struggling to comprehend what their eyes saw.

1) A greasing agent was removed from Silva at the beginning of the fight;
2) At around 1 minute into the second round, Silva defended a takedown attempt by holding onto Sonnen’s shorts for a period of 10-15 seconds;
3) Following this, Silva landed the first three of his substantial strikes whilst holding Sonnen’s shorts: &
4) Silva landed a knee very probably missed Sonnen’s head, but a part of Silva’s leg made contact with Sonnen’s head.

Observations

Fact 1

Rogan Immediately pointed out that Silva removed Vaseline from his face and rubbed it onto his arms and body. Does the fact that the ref removed it change the fact that it was applied in the first place with the intention of making himself slippery? No, it does not. Clear intention to cheat from the very outset in my book.

Fact 2

He clearly and intentionally holds onto the shorts in order to prevent another takedown and what would have been the end of round 2 for Silva. He doesn’t just temporarily grab them (split second), but holds onto them for an extended period of time (more like 20 seconds), all out of the view of the ref. He used this to gain an added advantage in defending the takedown. I would argue this is the only reason Chael was unsuccessful at getting the fight to the ground in the 2nd round.

Fact 3

Silva landed pretty much nothing up until this point.

Fact 4

The knee isn't the most controversial issue, but i love how everyone is fixated on it...Simply for the fact that it is the most easily disproven. It brings into question all sorts of things (how on earth people can be adamant that Silva made no contact with Sonnen’s head isn’t one of them). The only evidence besides the fight itself is ZP’s .gif which suggests that although Silva knee missed Sonnen’s head, his thigh very likely connected. Goldie’s initial reaction also suggested it was illegal. This constitutes an illegality as far as the unified rules are concerned. (I will even do him the justice of ignoring the fact he grabbed the cage)

There are four potential rule breaking incidents and three of those are undisputable.

Conclusion

The reaction from the fans is one that was expected, we all know the trolls come out the night of the fight and decide to stir things up because they have nothing better to do nor nothing to add to the debate. And that is the point, any sane minded mma fan (a majority of you) who saw that fight saw various breaches of the rules. The most logical responses have come from neutrals who said they weren’t happy with the short grabbing.

And with regards to the claims of nutthuggery that will no doubt follow this post, I’m not a huge Chael fan...The dude is simply entertaining as hell and backs up 99% of what he says.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Howeman89 said:


> I wasn't overly impressed with Silva tbh I think it was just a costly mistake which Silva took advantage of, Silva also partly cheated in the grabbing of the shorts to prevent Sonnen getting closer to attempt a take-down, Sonnen won't offer any excuses unlike Silva did in the 1st fight, I think Sonnen dominating the ground game in the 1st round showed that it had nothing to do with Silva's apparent rib injury as to why he controlled him. *For Silva to be dubbed the "Greatest of all time" is abit dubious he won't fight Jon Jones or GSP, he's the best Middleweight than that's about it in my opinion*


Perhaps you should follow the sport better. He even said he would try to go all the way down to 170 to fight GSP.

But perhaps you are just a Silva hater who is bitter this morning. You aren't alone. There are many out there.


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## above (Jun 20, 2012)

Liddellianenko said:


> It takes AMAZING talent to pinpoint a knee to the body like that without so much as touching the head and right through his arms raised to block, and break a guy's will from a single strike to the body. When have you EVER seen a guy curl up from something like that while on the ground?
> 
> It takes AMAZING talent to just completely time, dodge and duck under a spinning attack like that and make the guy go flying from his own momentum. Chael didn't screw up, Anderson dodged his strike completely and MADE him whiff.
> 
> ...


Spot on, mate!


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

If this isnt domination then ionno what is.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

kney said:


> I’m not a huge Chael fan...The dude is simply entertaining as hell and backs up 99% of what he says.


Hahahaha what? Chael backs up almost NOTHING that he says. He's a media troll and you can't take any of his words at face value.


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## above (Jun 20, 2012)

kney said:


> The dude is simply entertaining as hell and backs up 99% of what he says.


Like he did last night? 

As far as the rest of your post is concerned, it's just a bunch of attempts at a straw man.Even if none of those things happened, chael would still get wrecked. Now get over it.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Howeman89 said:


> I wasn't overly impressed with Silva tbh I think it was just a costly mistake which Silva took advantage of, Silva also partly cheated in the grabbing of the shorts to prevent Sonnen getting closer to attempt a take-down, Sonnen won't offer any excuses unlike Silva did in the 1st fight, I think Sonnen dominating the ground game in the 1st round showed that it had nothing to do with Silva's apparent rib injury as to why he controlled him. For Silva to be dubbed the "Greatest of all time" is abit dubious he won't fight Jon Jones or GSP, he's the best Middleweight than that's about it in my opinion


GSP doesn't want to fight him.

Silva doesn't want to fight Jones.

It's a vicious circle.


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## above (Jun 20, 2012)

xRoxaz said:


> If this isnt domination then ionno what is.


The best part about that picture is the phrase Assassin's Creed on the edge of the cage. Couldn't be any more perfect even if it was staged!


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

MRBRESK said:


> Anderson finished the fight with the first real opportunity he had. Infact, it wasn't even a real opportunity to finish the fight. I can't think of any other fighter that would have finished so quickly in that situation. That's why he's the greatest, you screw up for one second and he will end you.
> 
> Anderson at 225lbs vs JDS at 238lbs is very interesting to me. Andy wins IMO.


Not a chance it happens or that he wins. 

Even if JDS is losing the standup, he can take down guys like Carwin. He could definitely pull a Chael on Silva. 


I think Silva drops and TKOs Jon Jones though.


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## Howeman89 (Jul 26, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Perhaps you should follow the sport better. He even said he would try to go all the way down to 170 to fight GSP.
> 
> But perhaps you are just a Silva hater who is bitter this morning. You aren't alone. There are many out there.


I follow the sport religiously, and saying and doing is a different thing he's made no attempt to do so, so to me it looks like he has no intentions of doing so, and I'm far from bitter I called the fight how I saw it, Silva cheated to prevent the takedown, and took advantage of a costly mistake simple as that, I also don't buy into him being the "Greatest of all Time" so cheaply, he's not fought the best in other weight classes to be dubbed that in my opinion someone like a Manny Pacquiao could be considered the greatest of all time cause he's fought some of the best in loads of different weight classes and won, Silva's only fought James Irvin and Forrest Griffin who are by no standards the best in their weight divisions


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Dos Santos has a decent chin. Anderson is going to have a bit of trouble hurting a guy who is 35lbs heavier than him.


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## DonGambino (Aug 17, 2011)

Im gettin tired of all these Sonnen Stans and there excuses. Isnt it time for you guys to climb under a rock yet? Guess you stans hero wasnt roided up for this fight lol. Lmao at how he looked like he was gonna cry after the fight.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Howeman89 said:


> I follow the sport religiously, and saying and doing is a different thing he's made no attempt to do so, so to me it looks like he has no intentions of doing so, and I'm far from bitter I called the fight how I saw it, Silva cheated to prevent the takedown, and took advantage of a costly mistake simple as that, I also don't buy into him being the "Greatest of all Time" so cheaply, he's not fought the best in other weight classes to be dubbed that in my opinion someone like a Manny Pacquiao could be considered the greatest of all time cause he's fought some of the best in loads of different weight classes and won, Silva's only fought James Irvin and Forrest Griffin who are by no standards the best in their weight divisions


So not only is Manny Pacquiao an MMA fighter, he's apparently better than Sugar Ray Robinson, Ali, etc.

Cool story bro.

You should have a blog with all your awesome opinions.


Not to mention that Silva can't fight GSP because Dana won't let him...even at 170. He's literally publicly stated this.


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## ArcherCC (Dec 12, 2010)

Tonight Silva proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Chael has nothing what so ever for him. Yes Chael took him down in the first, and did nothing to him,I mean come on, slapping him in the side of the head (I call BS to anyone who says it was a palm strike, he was open hand slapping him). Then failed miserably in the second round to take Anderson down, realized that Anderson had allowed him the TD in the first and freaked, threw a Spinning back fist and was finished. He has neither the tools nor the mindset to ever challenge Anderson. Period. Dot. The. End.


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## above (Jun 20, 2012)

Roflcopter said:


> Not to mention that Silva can't fight GSP because Dana won't let him...even at 170. He's literally publicly stated this.


Why won't he let him?


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## Old school fan (Aug 24, 2011)

IMO what led Chael to commit that mistake is that he panicked after Silva defended all his TD attempts.

Chael was right, this fight was myth x legend indeed :laugh:


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Silva allowed Sonnen the takedown the same way he allowed Sonnen to dominate him for 23 minutes in their first fight. Pure lol at some of you. 

My God... I'm sitting here, trying to give Anderson all of the credit in the world for a beautiful finish. But some of you are making it difficult. Silva was taken down because Chael wanted to take him down. Silva was able to figure things out, get his timing and defence down quickly, and the rest is history. He isn't stupid enough to hand a man like Sonnen anything in a fight. Get over it, and let's all of us move on from this ridiculous talk.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

above said:


> Why won't he let him?


Probably because of money and the fact that he doesn't think GSP will win. GSP doesn't want the fight either...

I don't particularly care either way....if dudes want to fight outside of their weight class, it would be nice but if it doesn't...it does.

Silva doesn't want the Jones fight for similar reasons(he doesnt think he will win)


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## Howeman89 (Jul 26, 2011)

Roflcopter said:


> So not only is Manny Pacquiao an MMA fighter, he's apparently better than Sugar Ray Robinson, Ali, etc.
> 
> Cool story bro.
> 
> ...


I used Pacquaio as an example of what I meant by a person that could be considered "Greatest of all time" in their respective sport, no one has won more belts in different weight divisions other than him IMO he is one of the greatest in Boxing, n it's not a case of he can't Pre 2003 Silva fought at 170lbs, it's Dana trying to protect a suppose legacy that's been built up around Silva, apart from Franklin & Henderson I don't think he's beaten that many great opponents, Sonnen has been the only one to present a blueprint of what a fighter needs to do to beat Silva without the mistakes, I think given another chance Henderson would beat him


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

So wait, there's this other guy who has fought champions at three different weight classes while simultaneously dominating?


Damn, me in my MMA noobdom must have missed it.

Also, he fought at 168. Nice try bro.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Terror Kovenant said:


> The fight was scheduled and going to happen. Tito pulled out due to injury and Franklin replaced. Still means he was granted a third fight.


Apologies! I completely forgot Tito was even part of the that TUF season and that the third fight had even been scheduled. My bad!


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Howeman89 said:


> I follow the sport religiously, and saying and doing is a different thing he's made no attempt to do so, so to me it looks like he has no intentions of doing so, and I'm far from bitter I called the fight how I saw it, Silva cheated to prevent the takedown, and took advantage of a costly mistake simple as that, I also don't buy into him being the "Greatest of all Time" so cheaply, he's not fought the best in other weight classes to be dubbed that in my opinion someone like a Manny Pacquiao could be considered the greatest of all time cause he's fought some of the best in loads of different weight classes and won, Silva's only fought James Irvin and Forrest Griffin who are by no standards the best in their weight divisions


Do you even know that Silva started at 170? And has went to 185 and even 205. 35 lbs difference? Where has GSP ever went? Started and stayed at 170. 35lbs is more weight than Manny has moved. 

And this isn't boxing with 30 weight classes so the comparison makes no sense anyway.

So you tell me who the best MMA fighter ever is. He must be a guy who moved weight and fought great fighters. Hendo is the only guy that can even be considered.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Howeman89 said:


> apart from Franklin & Henderson I don't think he's beaten that many great opponents,


lol wut?


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## Howeman89 (Jul 26, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Do you even know that Silva started at 170? And has went to 185 and even 205. 35 lbs difference? Where has GSP ever went? Started and stayed at 170. 35lbs is more weight than Manny has moved.
> 
> And this isn't boxing with 30 weight classes so the comparison makes no sense anyway.
> 
> So you tell me who the best MMA fighter ever is. He must be a guy who moved weight and fought great fighters. Hendo is the only guy that can even be considered.


GSP is one of the best Welterweights of all time that's that, Pacquaios fought from 112lbs to 154lbs that's 42 lbs to be precise, more than Silva, and I'd consider the greatest MMA fighter of all time either Henderson, Couture or BJ Penn


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Howeman89 said:


> GSP is one of the best Welterweights of all time that's that, Pacquaios fought from 112lbs to 154lbs that's 42 lbs to be precise, more than Silva, and I'd consider the greatest MMA fighter of all time either Henderson, Couture or BJ Penn


Hendo definitely is not the greatest MMA fighter of all time, and Randy, while having some impressive wins, also got a lot of expedited title shots due to marketing, and has a fairly poor record in terms of win/loss. Penn is a great fighter as well, but also has a lot of losses. 

I don't know how you could say that any of them has proven themselves like Silva.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

HexRei said:


> Hahahaha what? Chael backs up almost NOTHING that he says. He's a media troll and you can't take any of his words at face value.


Not true. He's a damn good fighter, which is often what he claims, and often what he shows inside of the cage. The fact that Anderson Silva is simply better doesn't mean Chael doesn't back up his words. 

A lot of people have laid claim to having what it takes to defeat the Spider over the years. Some are still doing just that. I don't see being beaten by one of the greatest fighters alive as 'not backing up your mouth'.

Chael Sonnen. Heralded number two MW. I can live with that. You should be proud of your fellow statesman


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Not true. He's a damn good fighter, which is often what he claims, and often what he shows inside of the cage. The fact that Anderson Silva is simply better doesn't mean Chael doesn't back up his words.
> 
> A lot of people have laid claim to having what it takes to defeat the Spider over the years. Some are still doing just that. I don't see being beaten by one of the greatest fighters alive as 'not backing up your mouth'.
> 
> Chael Sonnen. Heralded number two MW. I can live with that. You should be proud of your fellow statesman


I'm not saying he's not a talented wrestler but almost everything he says publicly is marketing-oriented nonsense. Sometimes there's some truth to it and other times its outright lies, but he doesn't mean the stuff he says in public.


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## Howeman89 (Jul 26, 2011)

HexRei said:


> Hendo definitely is not the greatest MMA fighter of all time, and Randy, while having some impressive wins, also got a lot of expedited title shots due to marketing, and has a fairly poor record in terms of win/loss. Penn is a great fighter as well, but also has a lot of losses.
> 
> I don't know how you could say that any of them has proven themselves like Silva.


They've not just stayed in one weight class, BJ Penn, Henderson & Couture have moved up and down and won belts to me thats better than staying in one weight class and just beating everybody in one division, Dana White prefers fighters to clear out a division than to move up n down and to cement their legacy in a single weight class, but I can't see how that makes a fighter "Greatest of all time"


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

HexRei said:


> I'm not saying he's not a talented wrestler but almost everything he says publicly is marketing-oriented nonsense.


I'll give you that. I do believe we won't be seeing much more of that from him. I think it's always been strictly limited to Anderson Silva, and sufficed to say, that chapter is closed for the foreseeable future.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Anderson beat Hayato Sakurai and won the Shooto WW title when Sakurai was considered the best WW fighter in the world.


What exactly is your point other than your absurd credence given to fighters fighting in more than one weight class no matter how marginal their accomplishments(in Penn's case) or terrible their competition was(in Couture's case)


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## joh2141 (Jul 5, 2012)

Howeman89 said:


> I follow the sport religiously, and saying and doing is a different thing he's made no attempt to do so, so to me it looks like he has no intentions of doing so, and I'm far from bitter I called the fight how I saw it, Silva cheated to prevent the takedown, and took advantage of a costly mistake simple as that, I also don't buy into him being the "Greatest of all Time" so cheaply, he's not fought the best in other weight classes to be dubbed that in my opinion someone like a Manny Pacquiao could be considered the greatest of all time cause he's fought some of the best in loads of different weight classes and won, Silva's only fought James Irvin and Forrest Griffin who are by no standards the best in their weight divisions


First, let me mention I used to LOVE boxing before it started to die (and by die I mean the stars never seem to fight each other, judges are garbage, promoters BS around, the only notable HW is Klitchsko which I give credit but he's fighting scrubs. A combat sport with no HW is a "dead period" for the sport. Like imagine all teh super stars in NBA or NFL gone). Using your own point against you, Manny Pacquiao has yet to face Floyd Mayweather so he can't be dubbed the greatest of all time. I love boxing but Pacman fans sometimes gets a little too ahead of themselves. As much arrogance as I think Mayweather has, there's absolutely no chance Pacquiao can defeat Mayweather. Also, why are you trying to compare boxing to MMA? There's not like 50 weight classes between 50 lbs like in boxing. Several weight classes amount to one weight class in MMA. Also, it's stupid to compare boxing to MMA. Not to mention all the stupidity boxing judges bring to MMA decision making because a lot of times they don't know what the hell they are talking about.
---
What mistake are you all talking about? ANY MMA fighter should know a spinning back fist is RISKY!!! VERY RISKY!. First of all, if you don't have perfect balance, you will fall prey to a fighter like Silva. Silva ducked and dodged that backhand EASILY, which made Sonnen fall. That is not a mistake on Sonnen's part, that was a greatly timed counter. Also, Sonnen should have gotten on his back IMMEDIATELY and put his legs up. He just sat there like a baby, looking up at Silva. The knee in the chest like that could be deadly. He wasn't fully prepared as that spinning fist got him off balance. Just because Jon Bones Jones does it doesn't mean every fighter should go for a spinning fist or elbow. 

I wouldn't say Ssilva is the best of all times... But I would definitely say with confidence Silva is one of the best. I don't see how ANYONE can argue that, even for die-hard Chael Sonnen fans. I am a die hard Korean Zombie fan. If he lost to Aldo (which is highly possible), I would still give Aldo credit without any biased POV's. Learn to be objective.


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Not true. He's a damn good fighter, which is often what he claims, and often what he shows inside of the cage. The fact that Anderson Silva is simply better doesn't mean Chael doesn't back up his words.
> 
> A lot of people have laid claim to having what it takes to defeat the Spider over the years. Some are still doing just that. I don't see being beaten by one of the greatest fighters alive as 'not backing up your mouth'.
> 
> *Chael Sonnen. Heralded number two MW*. I can live with that. You should be proud of your fellow statesman



lol good joke, Vitor would crush Sonnen worse then Silva did.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Howeman89 said:


> They've not just stayed in one weight class, BJ Penn, Henderson & Couture have moved up and down and won belts to me thats better than staying in one weight class and just beating everybody in one division, Dana White prefers fighters to clear out a division than to move up n down and to cement their legacy in a single weight class, but I can't see how that makes a fighter "Greatest of all time"


You are entitled to an opinion. I just think you are way wrong. 

You are basically saying if you move in weight that you are one of the best.

So is Vitor up there for you? He was the HW champ at one point.

Anderson has won a title at 170lbs. At 185lbs he easily has the record of most consecutive UFC wins and title defenses....a record that is only growing. And then say what you will...but he went up to 205 and made a former 205 champ look like a fool. Am I saying Forrest is great? No. But Rampage and Shogun 1 didn't seem to make him look like a fool at all. 

So BJ Penn is better than Silva because he fought as a fat guy a few times and was crushed in most of his WW fights? How does that make sense?

Randy is better because he got gift title shots in 2 weight classes? Shots where he didn't even need to win a fight first. That makes him better? Because he was a tweener with no real weigh class?

Ok. Honestly, I don't think you understand or know the history of the sport. 

And for the record I WOULD put Hendo right up there with him. Who else has held titles at 185 and 205? Who has beat great HWs like Nog and Fedor? Along with 2 of the greatest 205ers in Wandy and Shogun? Not many. In my opinion Hendo's career is just as impressive as Silva's. Hendo had a REAL career....while Couture and Penn moved weight they didn't do it liek Hendo....who has basically fought everyone from pride and the ufc.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

xRoxaz said:


> lol good joke, Vitor would crush Sonnen worse then Silva did.


Ehhh... I dunno. Vitor was easily outwrestled by Hendo. Chael is probably a better wrestler than Hendo. Then again Vitor tends to be a very on/off fighter.


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

The only reason Silva was able to capitalize on the mistake is because Silva saw the spinning backfist/elbow coming and got out of the way. I love how people are saying Sonnen made a mistake! Ridiculous!

It's not like Sonnen was off target...that back fist was headed right for Anderson's head, Andy's spider senses kicked in, he used his head movement to avoid it and Chael fell on his ass. End of story.


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## Howeman89 (Jul 26, 2011)

How anyone is able to consider someone the greatest of all time when they don't/won't fight the fighters around them who are considered the best in their respective weight classes, someone like Jon Jones might never lose so does he all of a sudden over-take Anderson Silva as the greatest of all time? I respect Boxing but I hate the judging system and it's the most corrupt sport on the planet, yet the only thing I think is done better is having the Super-fights where we can judge who is the best or who could be considered the greatest, as for Mayweather being better than Pac-Man depends who you ask, until they fight no one will know


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## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

Howeman89 said:


> How anyone is able to consider someone the greatest of all time when they don't/won't fight the fighters around them who are considered the best in their respective weight classes, someone like Jon Jones might never lose so does he all of a sudden over-take Anderson Silva as the greatest of all time? I respect Boxing but I hate the judging system and it's the most corrupt sport on the planet, yet the only thing I think is done better is having the Super-fights where we can judge who is the best or who could be considered the greatest, as for Mayweather being better than Pac-Man depends who you ask, until they fight no one will know


We get it, you don't like Anderson and you will say anything that makes sense to you to try and justify it. Give it a rest. All this "best fighter ever" talk is pure opinion anyway.The argument for why Anderson can be considered that good is much better then your whole "he hasn't fought GSP (who doesn't want to fight Anderson at his current size) or Jon Jones (who is 24 years old and only has defended his belt 3 times). Forrest was still a very relevant LHW when Anderson made him look silly. Maybe Anderson should have fought more LHWs, but if he does that he wouldn't have had the time to defend his title 10 consecutive times in a row, making him the most dominant champion the sport has ever seen.

Oh and a side note,Pacquaio wouldn't beat Floyd on his best day. He's not in Floyd's league.


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

Why do people keep bringing up JDS vs Anderson when they both train with Nogueira's besides its a HW vs a MW...terrible idea


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

kc1983 said:


> The only reason Silva was able to capitalize on the mistake is because Silva saw the spinning backfist/elbow coming and got out of the way. I love how people are saying Sonnen made a mistake! Ridiculous!
> 
> It's not like Sonnen was off target...that back fist was headed right for Anderson's head, Andy's spider senses kicked in, he used his head movement to avoid it and Chael fell on his ass. End of story.


..True. Sonnen just got over-aggressive and made a crucial mistake. Even a tiny mistake against the most accurate striker ever can cost you. That knee to Chael's sternum was brutal and perfectly timed. Like Goldie keeps saying "To be the champion, you have to beat the champion"...


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## Abrissbirne (Jul 4, 2010)

In all honesty Silva was lucky to get the W this way. Anyone saying it differently is plain wrong and just a Silva nuthugger. Even if Silva didnt try to cheat with the knee, it was a nice way to finish him. He was lucky tho that Sonnen sliped before. He got dominated the first round.


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## joh2141 (Jul 5, 2012)

BrutalKO said:


> ..True. Sonnen just got over-aggressive and made a crucial mistake. Even a tiny mistake against the most accurate striker ever can cost you. That knee to Chael's sternum was brutal and perfectly timed. Like Goldie keeps saying "To be the champion, you have to beat the champion"...


Well the guy you quoted is pretty much saying is that Sonnen's spinning back fist became a mistake BECAUSE Silva dodged it. And that is completely 100% true. It wouldn't have been a mistake if Silva didn't dodge it and hit him straight in the face... But Silva DID dodge it, and BECAUSE he dodged it it became a mistake. I said this like 5 times already but people are still saying how cheap the knee was or how Silva got lucky. And even if Silva got lucky, luck is a huge part of your own skill... because once you get lucky, you still need to utilize your skills to capitalize on that luck.

---



Abrissbirne said:


> In all honesty Silva was lucky to get the W this way. Anyone saying it differently is plain wrong and just a Silva nuthugger. Even if Silva didnt try to cheat with the knee, it was a nice way to finish him. He was lucky tho that Sonnen sliped before. He got dominated the first round.


No... just... no... Please stop. It was ONLY a mistake BECAUSE Silva dodged it. We've seen spinning back fists in MMA before and it has proven to be a powerful strike when it lands. Read my post above this quote. Don't be delusional. And JUST BECAUSE you get dominated in the first round, or the entire fight for that matter, does not mean they definitely won. Fedor Emelianenko, one of the best of all times, have been rocked by Fujita and countless others. Do you say Fedor got lucky for the comebacks he made? By your standards, every win in MMA then MUST be due to luck and not by skills.


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## Howeman89 (Jul 26, 2011)

I might as well talk to a brick wall, I'm not an Anderson Silva hater I respect Silva, he's the best striker in UFC history by far but I dispute the "Greatest of all time" tag, as for Mayweather beating Pacquiao, I don't think Mayweathers ever fought a fighter that poccesses the hand speed and the power that Pac-Man has, all it takes is one-punch or a combination to cripple an opponent and Manny has it


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

I'm struggling to see the debate here.

Best MMA fighter we have ever seen gets a huge moral victory by defeating the guy who came closest to beating him in the UFC. He dropped the first round in all too familiar fashion, then stopped Chael with strikes in the second round after defending multiple takedown attempts.

What's not to like? The fight wasn't pure domination on one man's part from beginning to end, but it maintains Silva's status as the most dominant fighter on the planet right now. It's a privilege to witness.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

mmaswe82 said:


> Well TBH, Silva did stop ALL of Chaels takedown-attempts in the second, he then proceeds to duck away from a spinning elbow, classic Silva matrix style making Sonnen drop on his ass, only to finish him with GNP, I don't see how u can take that credit away from Silva.
> 
> Saying it doesn't take much talent to knee someone sitting down is like saying it doesn't take much talent to win a fight by wrestling, you just hold a guy down and punch him in the face, that's not so hard right?





rul3z said:


> And did Silva say: hey sonnen, stay on your butt for me to knee you?
> 
> LooooL, even the challenger said I have no excuses! But it seems that the fans have.
> 
> ...



Funny thing is that Anderson was dodging the jab that Chael threw. He was already in the process of moving and it was then that Chael threw the spinning back fist. He didnt see the spinning backfist and then matrix out of it lol.
And even if a backfist doesnt land the guy isnt supposed to fall down. Not sure where that idea came from. Chael tripped of his own stupidity and his own mistake.

Then Anderson did what makes Anderson AMAZING. He found a way to finish the fight in the first mistake Chael made. Thats why Chael will NEVER be as great as Anderson. He cant find ways to win. All he can do is force his will and hope the other guy folds. You will never see Chael win a fight from behind.


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## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

The entire problem is no one is ever satisfied with what Anderson does minus the Griffin fight. In the Belfort fight, it was Vitor "playing right in to Silva's game", in the first Chael fight it was domination from his opponent with a lucky submission at the end. It just seems like people will sit here and trash the guy regardless of how he wins his fights simply because they don't like him outside of the cage. It's perfectly acceptable to not like the guy, but to continue these ongoing excuses after every he continues FINISHING all these guys who are "the one to finally beat him" is what pisses us (his fans) off. Then some will even downplay by saying "Oh, I respect Anderson and he did a good job, but he may not have won theoretically if the sequence was altered slightly". Well no sh*t. You can't sit there and predict a totally different outcome over something that never happened. The bottom line is the fight went down the way it did because Anderson takes advantage of each and every opening his opponents give him. He isn't gifted victories by his opponents error, he seizes it when he has the moment to do it.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Sterl said:


> The entire problem is no one is ever satisfied with what Anderson does minus the Griffin fight. In the Belfort fight, it was Vitor "playing right in to Silva's game", in the first Chael fight it was domination from his opponent with a lucky submission at the end. It just seems like people will sit here and trash the guy regardless of how he wins his fights simply because they don't like him outside of the cage. It's perfectly acceptable to not like the guy, but to continue these ongoing excuses after every he continues FINISHING all these guys who are "the one to finally beat him" is what pisses us (his fans) off. Then some will even downplay by saying "Oh, I respect Anderson and he did a good job, but he may not have won theoretically if the sequence was altered slightly". Well no sh*t. You can't sit there and predict a totally different outcome over something that never happened. The bottom line is the fight went down the way it did because Anderson takes advantage of each and every opening his opponents give him. He isn't gifted victories by his opponents error, he seizes it when he has the moment to do it.



Everyone is satisfied with what he did and everyone admits Anderson is great infact probably the best. But at the same time people cant lie to themselves just because its Anderson. There is nothing wrong with people breaking down what happened in a real and honest way.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

That knee took more skill than a lot of strikes do. He had to thread the needle below his chin for a clean hit and not get DQ'd.


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## StandThemUp (May 30, 2008)

I think it just shows how one dimensional Sonnen is. Even with being on top the whole first round, he did absolutely nothing, other than being on top. Which in my mind is pretty meaningless for anything outside of the judges score cards, but meaningless as a real fight tactic.

Anderson showed that even if Chael could take him down and hold him there, he would take no damage, keep his cool, bide his time and either take a submission or wait for the next round. Just like he did in the first fight. He prevented Sonnen from doing anything, every round starts off standing, Chael couldn't use the "I'm a blanket" tactic in the second round and got exposed.

I think what it clearly shows, is if Anderson wasn't injured going into the first fight, he would have found a way to end that one much sooner than he did. Even in the fight, even being on the bottom for each round, he still dealt out more damage than Sonnen did. Silva busted him up cut him open and made him bleed. Chael got a handful of good shots in, but the rest were just for the judges.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Funny thing is that Anderson was dodging the jab that Chael threw. He was already in the process of moving and it was then that Chael threw the spinning back fist. He didnt see the spinning backfist and then matrix out of it lol.
> And even if a backfist doesnt land the guy isnt supposed to fall down. Not sure where that idea came from. Chael tripped of his own stupidity and his own mistake.
> 
> Then Anderson did what makes Anderson AMAZING. He found a way to finish the fight in the first mistake Chael made. Thats why Chael will NEVER be as great as Anderson. He cant find ways to win. All he can do is force his will and hope the other guy folds. You will never see Chael win a fight from behind.


Ok fair enough, he dodged a jab & ended up matrixing a spinning attack, it was still awsome.

Although I must say it almost looks like he knew more was coming & dodged longer than he would have for just a jab and who knows, it's Anderson Silva, maybe he knew. I mean the guy seems like an alien at times.
It almost looks to me like he dodges, feels more coming and dodges some more, but that migh just be my imagination.

My point was more the fact that not giving Silva credit for this performance is stupid. Sure maybe it was stupid of Chael to try a spinning attack against Silva. But he didn't really have much to do after his TD was stopped, no matter what he would throw at Anderson, the outcome would probably have been the same = dodged and countered, so why not try something crazy?

Had it landed & knocked Silva out, alot of Sonnen-fans would say "Sonnen P4P best striker in MMA" now it missed and he fell on his ass, some of his fans uses that as an excuse to discretit Silva.


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

I would've liked to have seen how the fight would've played out without the spinning backfist whiff and the knee to the chest - that was a game changer. 
That said, Sonnen spent the entire first round (and four rounds in their last fight), in top position and could not hurt Silva, so I think the outcome would've been the same.


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## above (Jun 20, 2012)

Roflcopter said:


> Silva doesn't want the Jones fight for similar reasons(he doesnt think he will win)


This may be quite unorthodox of course, but why not split the difference? Fight at 195?


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

StandThemUp said:


> I think it just shows how one dimensional Sonnen is. Even with being on top the whole first round, he did absolutely nothing, other than being on top. Which in my mind is pretty meaningless for anything outside of the judges score cards, but meaningless as a real fight tactic.
> 
> Anderson showed that even if Chael could take him down and hold him there, he would take no damage, keep his cool, bide his time and either take a submission or wait for the next round. Just like he did in the first fight. He prevented Sonnen from doing anything, every round starts off standing, Chael couldn't use the "I'm a blanket" tactic in the second round and got exposed.
> 
> I think what it clearly shows, is if Anderson wasn't injured going into the first fight, he would have found a way to end that one much sooner than he did. Even in the fight, even being on the bottom for each round, he still dealt out more damage than Sonnen did. Silva busted him up cut him open and made him bleed. Chael got a handful of good shots in, but the rest were just for the judges.


Agree - Chael is a takedown machine but just doesn't do damage from top position. Plus Silva is just wicked good at surviving on his back - Lutter and Hendo had him in bad shape but couldn't hurt him either.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

mmaswe82 said:


> Ok fair enough, he dodged a jab & ended up matrixing a spinning attack, it was still awsome.
> 
> Although I must say it almost looks like he knew more was coming & dodged longer than he would have for just a jab and who knows, it's Anderson Silva, maybe he knew. I mean the guy seems like an alien at times.
> It almost looks to me like he dodges, feels more coming and dodges some more, but that migh just be my imagination.
> ...



What you are seeing im pretty sure is Anderson dodging and moving off the fence. He was backed up against the fence and when Chael moved forward with his jab he saw an opportunity to dodge and slip off the fence. Hence it looks like he moves further then he should have were he trying to just dodge a jab.

Well people can say what they want but that Knee he threw was pretty damn amazing. You trying generating enough power with your knee in such a low spot. Much less he made his knee resemble a sharp a cannon ball going to the center of Chaels chest. Its ALL impressive to me.

But what Chael could have done after his failed takedown is yet ANOTHER takedown. Thats what Chael does and he does it until he gets the fight to the ground.


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## Don$ukh (Jan 2, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Perhaps you should follow the sport better. He even said he would try to go all the way down to 170 to fight GSP.
> 
> But perhaps you are just a Silva hater who is bitter this morning. You aren't alone. There are many out there.


The other guy has a point and Silva is arguably the greatest p4p fighter in history currently but GSP is not far behind him. Silva is by far the greatest MW in MMA history but we cannot cement his p4p greatest fighter yet, because of GSP.

If Silva defeated GSP at MW then he fully deserves the greatest title because he currently holds no1.
If GSP defeated Silva at WW then GSP would creep ahead of Silva for the greatest title.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Anderson has declined the idea that he would be willing to go down to 170. He changed his mind a good time ago and said he probably wouldnt have been able to make 170. He WANTS to stay at 185.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Don$ukh said:


> The other guy has a point and Silva is arguably the greatest p4p fighter in history currently but GSP is not far behind him. Silva is by far the greatest MW in MMA history but we cannot cement his p4p greatest fighter yet, because of GSP.
> 
> If Silva defeated GSP at MW then he fully deserves the greatest title because he currently holds no1.
> If GSP defeated Silva at WW then GSP would creep ahead of Silva for the greatest title.




The difference between GSP and Silva is like this, both are great, but one is superior and more dominate. GSP can't finish people its a fact, people get pissed when SIlva does not do it because they know he's that good. Silva will go down as the Goat, however i see Jon Jones being a bigger threat to goat debate than GSP. Trust me within two years you guys will be debating who's better GSP or Rory Mcdonald.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> What you are seeing im pretty sure is Anderson dodging and moving off the fence. He was backed up against the fence and when Chael moved forward with his jab he saw an opportunity to dodge and slip off the fence. Hence it looks like he moves further then he should have were he trying to just dodge a jab.
> 
> Well people can say what they want but that Knee he threw was pretty damn amazing. You trying generating enough power with your knee in such a low spot. Much less he made his knee resemble a sharp a cannon ball going to the center of Chaels chest. Its ALL impressive to me.
> 
> *But what Chael could have done after his failed takedown is yet ANOTHER takedown*. Thats what Chael does and he does it until he gets the fight to the ground.


Yea I was surprised that he chose to abandon his wrestling as well, I guess only Sonnen himself knows why. 

I guess he got tired of trying to force his wrestling and getting stuffed, so he realized he had to set it up somehow. Why he would chose a spinning attack to do it has me a bit baffled as well.


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## Don$ukh (Jan 2, 2007)

marcthegame said:


> The difference between GSP and Silva is like this, both are great, but one is superior and more dominate. GSP can't finish people its a fact, people get pissed when SIlva does not do it because they know he's that good. Silva will go down as the Goat, however i see Jon Jones being a bigger threat to goat debate than GSP. Trust me within two years you guys will be debating who's better GSP or Rory Mcdonald.


Can see Jones being discussed in the future for p4p greatest. Rory is showing all the signs of being a future p4p great but needs a few more tests.

P4p greatest for me is about dominance. Silva has been outclassed and won fights which shows flair not dominance. He puts GSP to shame on finishes and beats GSP in this area.
GSP doesnt have these amazing fight finishes but has never been outclassed against opposition in his title reign except Serra. 
I mean the guy won 30+ rounds in a row without ever losing a round in his title reign. Thats dominance for me and displaying superior skills.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Rory isn't ever going to be close to as good as GSP and won't hold a belt in the UFC. GSP won't survive his next couple defenses unless he somehow managed to avoid fighting Kampmann, Ellenberger, and Hendricks.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

osmium said:


> Rory isn't ever going to be close to as good as GSP and won't hold a belt in the UFC. GSP won't survive his next couple defenses unless he somehow managed to avoid fighting Kampmann, Ellenberger, and Hendricks.


This man speaks the truth about Rory.

However GSP will win those fights.


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## Old school fan (Aug 24, 2011)

I don't see how many questions can be raised, really


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Old school fan said:


> I don't see how many questions can be raised, really


He crumpled into a ball. It was all worth it though because he looked so happy when anderson invited him over to his house afterward.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

It was clearly a good stoppage. The worst bit of it was Anderson's shots were not Carwin-esque flailing into forearms....they were accurate daggers that were clearly hitting Chael flush while he turned his head and balled up.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> It was clearly a good stoppage. The worst bit of it was Anderson's shots were not Carwin-esque flailing into forearms....they were accurate daggers that were clearly hitting Chael flush while he turned his head and balled up.


Yeah if you watch the Nate, Forrest, and Okami fights he has always been absurdly accurate and deadly with his GNP. Wrestlers should study how Anderson does it so they can finish better. You don't have to lay on top of guys to use your wrestling as an offensive weapon. You can partially control them while drilling your fist into their skull. Even if they get up they will be right by you and either have their hands protecting their face and be wide open for another takedown or have them low to guard the takedown and you can punch them in the head some more. It takes more energy to fight like that but a guy like Cruz could definitely exploit that strategy instead of just laying on people.


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## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

I don't see how anyone can say that stoppage was early. Chael was curled up with his hands over his head while Silva was throwing down punches to his head. Brock continued to move from the bottom while Carwin was hitting while Chael failed to advance his position while take shots to the head. If Lavigne lets the fight go any longer, I can't say for sure obviously but your most likely going to just see 10-15 more punches in that position before he finally decided enough is enough.


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

HexRei said:


> Ehhh... I dunno. Vitor was easily outwrestled by Hendo. Chael is probably a better wrestler than Hendo. Then again Vitor tends to be a very on/off fighter.


I think Vitor is the rightful #2 MW and I think he was correct when he said if Anderson didnt KO him he wud have Koed him, as funny as it sounds lol.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

mmaswe82 said:


> Yea I was surprised that he chose to abandon his wrestling as well, I guess only Sonnen himself knows why.
> 
> I guess he got tired of trying to force his wrestling and getting stuffed, so he realized he had to set it up somehow. Why he would chose a spinning attack to do it has me a bit baffled as well.


Yeah he was definitely just trying to set his takedown better BUT why use a spinning back fist on Anderson out of all people is something i certainly cant wrap my head around. You dont take a chance like that when Anderson Silva is the guy that capitalizes on peoples minor mistakes (And there is many more reasons why it was stupid). He probably threw it and half way through it he thought "Oh wtf am i doing throwing a spinning backfist" which caused him to stumble and fall on his ass haha.


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## Don$ukh (Jan 2, 2007)

xRoxaz said:


> I think Vitor is the rightful #2 MW and I think he was correct when he said if Anderson didnt KO him he wud have Koed him, as funny as it sounds lol.


Well Vitor got beaten by KO from a front leg kick that exposed his boxing defense. Vitor saying he would of got a KO barring the kick is just talk, he cannot say anything.

I do however think in the current UFC MW roster, Vitor is the only guy who has a decent chance of beating Silva. Anderson is a better striker, Vitor is a better boxer. Vitor has to use his hand speed to setup a combination while Silva is trying to gauge the range. I can see Silva having problems trying to counter and Vitor can turn the fight into a boxing match especially coming forward cutting off angles!!

Sonnen style wise is Silvas worst matchup but still cant win, Silva is special like this. 
Vitor with a good gameplan can fight fire with fire and definetly give Silva a fierce fight.


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## Stockton902 (Jul 7, 2012)

*Saw it from a mile away, gotta love that knee! Sonnen was done after that hit him in the solarplexis.*


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

The stoppage was fine. The fight did leave a lot of un answered questions still. Anderson still has a wrestling weakness. The right guy will beat him.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> The stoppage was fine. The fight did leave a lot of un answered questions still. Anderson still has a wrestling weakness. The right guy will beat him.


Whos the right guy though? Chael was touted as being the best MMA wrestler in MMA. Yes, there were people saying he had better wrestling then gsp.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> The stoppage was fine. The fight did leave a lot of un answered questions still. Anderson still has a wrestling weakness. The right guy will beat him.


I don't think his wrestling weakness is as bad as people make it out. Combine in two fights he's 4/10 vs Chael Sonnen in the takedown department. Stopped everything in the 4th and 5th rounds of their last fight, and the 2nd in this fight. With Silva and BJJ guys in general you would want to be taken down. 

Someone will beat him, but I don't think there will be a wrestler as mentally strong as Chael. Remember never mind what Anderson did, Chael came to fight and took shots to get rewarded. The more i re watch the fight I think Chael mentally broke in the second round, when Silva stopped his take down for the 2nd time it broke him. Silva then walked away from Sonnen, in all my time watching SOnnen he has never taken the foot off the gas petal like he did there.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> Whos the right guy though? Chael was touted as being the best MMA wrestler in MMA. Yes, there were people saying he had better wrestling then gsp.


Chael's wrestling wasn't the problem in that fight. It was one over zealous strike that left him in a terrible position. You can't do that against a guy like Anderson. He'll capitalize every time.

I really think someone like Rashad or GSP could win a decision against Anderson. Their both good strikers with great wrestling and sub defense. 

I wouldn't be saying this if Anderson stopped the TD in the first round and tko'd Sonnen then. But he didn't. He got easily taken down and controlled yet again. That was Chael's fight to lose, and he lost it.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Chael's wrestling wasn't the problem in that fight. It was one over zealous strike that left him in a terrible position. You can't do that against a guy like Anderson. He'll capitalize every time.
> 
> I really think someone like Rashad or GSP could win a decision against Anderson. Their both good strikers with great wrestling and sub defense.
> 
> I wouldn't be saying this if Anderson stopped the TD in the first round and tko'd Sonnen then. But he didn't. He got easily taken down and controlled yet again. That was Chael's fight to lose, and he lost it.


So what happens When Silva starts matrixing Evan and Gsp's strikes? With Chael, SIlva saw the Jab which then turned into a spinning back fist and ducked it.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> So what happens When Silva starts matrixing Evan and Gsp's strikes? With Chael, SIlva saw the Jab which then turned into a spinning back fist and ducked it.


Then he gets taken down. A high level wrestler will just hit a TD instead of still trying to hit him.

Silva was near the cage when Chael threw that. Had he just went for a TD, he probably would have gotten it and not ended up on his ass.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Chael's wrestling wasn't the problem in that fight. It was one over zealous strike that left him in a terrible position. You can't do that against a guy like Anderson. He'll capitalize every time.


I honestly think you are trivializing what happened there. Chael didn't just have one over-zealous strike. He threw wildly, fell down and then sat there on his butt, and it was following his disheartening inability to take silva down at the beginning of the second.

Sonnen's mind fell apart there, before he even threw that backfist. I think he was already beaten mentally and it was just a matter of when Silva would capitalize on it.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Then he gets taken down. A high level wrestler will just hit a TD instead of still trying to hit him.
> 
> Silva was near the cage when Chael threw that. Had he just went for a TD, he probably would have gotten it and not ended up on his ass.


Are GSP or Evans mentally strong enough to go in there and only try to wrestle SIlva? GSP hates being hit, as for Evans is ego is to damn big for him to stick to a Chael Sonnen plan for five rounds.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Chael's wrestling wasn't the problem in that fight. It was one over zealous strike that left him in a terrible position. You can't do that against a guy like Anderson. He'll capitalize every time.
> 
> I really think someone like Rashad or GSP could win a decision against Anderson. Their both good strikers with great wrestling and sub defense.
> 
> I wouldn't be saying this if Anderson stopped the TD in the first round and tko'd Sonnen then. But he didn't. He got easily taken down and controlled yet again. That was Chael's fight to lose, and he lost it.


I don't see how the one in the first has anything to do with his takedown defense. He clearly just tried to bull rush him and made no attempt to keep his hips away or defend. If Brock Lesnar did that Sonnen could probably take him down. He has proven in both fights that he can stop Sonnen's shot a lot of the time when he fights in a way to prevent it.


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## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

This illusion that Anderson can be easily beaten by a wrestler is asinine. The fact is you need to fight a near perfect fight against Anderson because of how well he capitalizes on mistakes. 25 minutes is a long time to simply outwrestle Anderson, especially with how well he strikes from his back and prevents takedowns when he isn't throwing wild punches when the shot comes in on him.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Sterl said:


> This illusion that Anderson can be easily beaten by a wrestler is asinine. The fact is you need to fight a near perfect fight against Anderson because of how well he capitalizes on mistakes. 25 minutes is a long time to simply outwrestle Anderson, especially with how well he strikes from his back and prevents takedowns when he isn't throwing wild punches when the shot comes in on him.


Or flying knees which accounted for basically every takedown Nate and Lutter got on him aside from when he pulled guard on Nate to attack with a guillotine.


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## WarCraved (Jul 9, 2012)

It was a big event. I think no matter what, people would've said it was domination regardless of who won. Controversy can cause this. 

I personally think Chael would've won if he didn't try that Spinning Backfist, but that's just me. Grats to Silva.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

WarCraved said:


> It was a big event. I think no matter what, people would've said it was domination regardless of who won. Controversy can cause this.
> 
> I personally think Chael would've won if he didn't try that Spinning Backfist, but that's just me. Grats to Silva.


*facepalm*

That one strike did not seal his fate. It was not even the turning point of the fight. The turning point was Anderson stuffing Chael multiple times in a row and then forcing him to retreat with strikes. That's when Chael broke. Once that happened the fight was over. He wasn't going to win from that point on.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> Are GSP or Evans mentally strong enough to go in there and only try to wrestle SIlva? GSP hates being hit, as for Evans is ego is to damn big for him to stick to a Chael Sonnen plan for five rounds.


Evan's is too cocky with his striking. Just like he was against Jones. I mean we saw what machida did to rashad... Rashad and Chael are on 2 different levels of wrestling also.. Chael is a tier above him. 

Chael punches his way into a takedown, where as rashad likes to counter with takedowns. Chael is the PERFECT wrestler to beat a guy like silva because he doesnt allow him to set up, to get his range.. Rashad is the exact opposite. Not to mention chael also had better boxing then rashad. I think we need to see Chael vs Rashad @ 205. If rashad wins he can get a shot at andy at 185, and before everyone starts whining that he should have a fight at 185 first.. Vitor didnt. I think its common knowledge that rashad could make 185, but with it seeming like chael is moving up, him beating rashad at 185 does nothing for him.


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## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> *facepalm*
> 
> That one strike did not seal his fate. It was not even the turning point of the fight. The turning point was Anderson stuffing Chael multiple times in a row and then forcing him to retreat with strikes. That's when Chael broke. Once that happened the fight was over. He wasn't going to win from that point on.


Chael went for a hip throw against the cage, and Anderson was strong enough to hold it off and then the backfist came directly after. That's when Sonnen cracked. He even said in interviews how he expected more resistance the first time. When this came from Silva in the 2nd round, he was already beat in his head.


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## WarCraved (Jul 9, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> *facepalm*
> 
> That one strike did not seal his fate. It was not even the turning point of the fight. The turning point was Anderson stuffing Chael multiple times in a row and then forcing him to retreat with strikes. That's when Chael broke. Once that happened the fight was over. He wasn't going to win from that point on.


It was just the fact that he was in a bad position. I think he really could've done it, if not for that dangerous place that Chael was in, it's fair to say this, don't you think?

I think this is a fair assumption.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Not really, Warcraved. I have laid out the reasoning for it a number of threads since the fight so I'm not going to repeat it here. But once Chael couldn't hit those takedowns at will the fight was not going to go his way and he knew it.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

I disagree with you deadman. I think what happened is what I talked about before the fight. Chael is not afraid to do things that could get him hit but doesn't deal with pain well. The spinning back elbow wasn't desperation either it has been documented that it was part of his gameplan.


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## WarCraved (Jul 9, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> Not really, Warcraved. I have laid out the reasoning for it a number of threads since the fight so I'm not going to repeat it here. But once Chael couldn't hit those takedowns at will the fight was not going to go his way and he knew it.


I think Chael could've gotten Silva down in that 2nd round, if Silva didn't grab his shorts. I'm not trying to start anything with that (I don't wanna be "that guy" lol) but it wasn't 100% defended by Silva legally. He did nothing wrong though, the referee didn't warn him, so no harm done. I can understand your reasoning though.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

I couldn't see Silva grabbing shorts, he was holding Chael's thigh. And the referee did warn him.


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## WarCraved (Jul 9, 2012)

Kind of a sloppy gif, but here it is.










Silva is holding the shorts right there it looks like.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

WarCraved said:


> Kind of a sloppy gif, but here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He is certainly going to town on those shorts. People that dont know much about wrestling should know that its the reason Chael wasnt able to get him down. On that occasion atleast.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> He is certainly going to town on those shorts. People that dont know much about wrestling should know that its the reason Chael wasnt able to get him down. On that occasion atleast.


Well the reason was he couldn't connect his hands or wrap his legs. That certainly helped prevent it but he was in the arm position to get double underhooks and achieve the same result so what you are saying isn't entirely true. Either way he shouldn't have done that.


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## 39flat (Feb 6, 2009)

Here's the deal, Chael needs to exert his game plan for 25 minutes to win, as demonstrated, Anderson only needed 1 min.
I was one of a handful of people who cheered when Sonnen got the mount in the first round, as opposed to the deafening roar when Silva finished him.
Sonnen maybe just be Bi-Polar, or maybe he needed to strengthen his self belief, when you read his book you get hints that this Achilles heel is mental, which is understandable against a destroyer of men such as Silva, I'm sure AS works hard, but I bet Chael works harder, insane talent won out against hard work on Sat night.
I secretly wanted the tall poppy to get cut down, but anyone who doesn't realize that Silva is P4P best ever needs to wake the f#%k up!


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> Well the reason was he couldn't connect his hands or wrap his legs. That certainly helped prevent it but he was in the arm position to get double underhooks and achieve the same result so what you are saying isn't entirely true. Either way he shouldn't have done that.


Chaels shoulder were really low compared to Andersons arms. Underhooks dont matter if you dont have the leverage to use them to keep the opponent away. The reason Anderson was holding to Chaels shorts was to keep Chaels Shoulders from getting closer. Which would have happened if Anderson wasnt holding the shorts. Those arnt full underhooks and in no way powerfull enough to hold Chael at bay from getting a better hold of the leg UNLESS he can hold on Chaels shorts and use that to create the distance.

So sorry but what im saying is 100% correct. There is a reason he was holding on to them. This isnt something that anyone can argue against, because its fact. He didnt hold on to them for shits and giggles. Go to your gym tomorrow and have someone try to take you down against the fence while holding on to his shorts preventing him from grasping your leg. It creates a barrier and makes it very hard for the person to lower himself and grasp the leg with a good grip. Unless ofcourse he can break the grip between the hands and shorts.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Chaels shoulder were really low compared to Andersons arms. Underhooks dont matter if you dont have the leverage to use them to keep the opponent away. The reason Anderson was holding to Chaels shorts was to keep Chaels Shoulders from getting closer. Which would have happened if Anderson wasnt holding the shorts. Those arnt full underhooks and in no way powerfull enough to hold Chael at bay from getting a better hold of the leg UNLESS he can hold on Chaels shorts and use that to create the distance.
> 
> So sorry but what im saying is 100% correct. There is a reason he was holding on to them. This isnt something that anyone can argue against because its fact. He didnt hold on to them for shits and giggles.


I have see that work plenty of times if you widen their arms with partial double underhooks and your stance you can prevent them from gaining the hold they need to pull your legs out. Chael should have switched to a single and tried to pull and turn him off the cage and tripped his outside leg.

He was holding onto him before Chael attempted that technique. He pushed his hips away on the initial attempt and grabbed with his left while clinched and then Chael tried that.


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## 39flat (Feb 6, 2009)

Oh, and also, Anderson did not look confident coming into the cage, rubbing the vas from his face to his arms was super obvious, (nowhere near the quantity as GSP), when he got the chance to let his weapons go, he did so with urgency, because he had to make the most of the
Opportunity, as opposed to Damien & Thales, where he new he had the advantage all day.
Props to Chael for being a challenger ( by definition)


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> I have see that work plenty of times if you widen their arms with partial double underhooks and your stance you can prevent them from gaining the hold they need to pull your legs out. Chael should have switched to a single and tried to pull and turn him off the cage and tripped his outside leg.


Chaels full body and legs is alot more powerful then Andersons arms. He would have pushed the arms back easily. Anderson was in no position to use his own arm strength to keep Chael back, he just didnt have the leverage. Its WHY he was holding on to the shorts.


Look at Chaels right arm. The only thing keeping it from going around Anderson leg and tossing him to the left like he tried was the grip Anderson had on chaels Shorts. It couldnt be more obvious tbh.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> Chaels full body and legs is alot more powerful then Andersons arms. He would have pushed the arms back easily. Anderson was in no position to use his own arm strength to keep Chael back, he just didnt have the leverage. Its WHY he was holding on to the shorts.
> 
> 
> Look at Chaels right arm. The only thing keeping it from going around Anderson leg and tossing him to the left like he tried was the grip Anderson had on chaels Shorts.


sideways is right here guys the grabbing of a the shorts played a significant roll in stopping the take down and may very well have won him the fight because had he not done that if would have been another round full of g&p by chael and who knows what would have happened in the following rounds.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Chaels full body and legs is alot more powerful then Andersons arms. He would have pushed the arms back easily. Anderson was in no position to use his own arm strength to keep Chael back, he just didnt have the leverage. Its WHY he was holding on to the shorts.
> 
> 
> Look at Chaels right arm. The only thing keeping it from going around Anderson leg and tossing him to the left like he tried was the grip Anderson had on chaels Shorts. It couldnt be more obvious tbh.


You don't need to stop his full body you need to spread his arms enough so that he can't wrap his hands behind your legs.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> You don't need to stop his full body you need to spread his arms enough so that he can't wrap his hands behind your legs.


Which you cant do if his shoulder is pushing your arms back. At that point all he had to do was keep his grip strength on the shorts going and Chael cant get his arm around Andersons leg. Seeing as how Chael needs to keep his legs back to create levreage, it also creates space between the shorts and Anderson. As long as Anderson is holding on to the shorts he keeps Chael away.

Like i said... there is a reason he is holding the shorts. Its not because he wants a feel.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Which you cant do if his shoulder is pushing your arms back. At that point all he had to do was keep his grip strength on the shorts going and Chael cant get his arm around Andersons leg.
> 
> Like i said... there is a reason he is holding the shorts. Its not because he wants a feel.


You need to get the underhooks at the elbow it changes the amount you can close your arms to wrap while you are further extending them by spreading your legs. You aren't trying to pull him up in that situation. You want to prevent the wrap and force him to change techniques or change to pressing down the head if he gets a little to low trying to dig for the double and then you can try to go for a switch or lean over his body and bodylock his waste.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> You need to get the underhooks at the elbow it changes the amount you can close your arms to wrap while you are further extending them by spreading your legs.


Which he was able to keep because he is holding on to the shorts. Im not quiet sure why you cant figure this out. Anderson wasnt low enough to raise Chaels body up with his underhooks. So holding on to the shorts makes it impossible for Chael to close the distance any further. It was why Anderson did it and he accomplished what he wanted to do.

Your completely avoiding the part where im telling you Anderson held on to them for a reason and not shits and giggles. You think he was doing it because he liked the material of the shorts?


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Which he was able to keep because he is holding on to the shorts. Im not quiet sure why you cant figure this out. Anderson wasnt low enough to raise Chaels body up with his underhooks. So holding on to the shorts makes it impossible for Chael to close the distance any further. It was why Anderson did it and he accomplished what he wanted to do.
> 
> Your completely avoiding the part where im telling you Anderson held on to them for a reason and not shits and giggles. You think he was doing it because he liked the material of the shorts?


I already agreed that it helps prevent that so why would I go back to it. I am arguing your false statement that it is impossible to stop the takedown from that position without doing it.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> I already agreed that it helps prevent that so why would I go back to it. I am arguing your false statement that it is impossible to stop the takedown from that position without doing it.


In that position its not impossible. There are slight differences between each position that could change the result of the same position at different instances. Its a game of inches. Iv wrestled for 5 years so i have a little bit of experience to talk on the manner.

But in the Anderson/Chael instance it was very clearly what stopped the takedown. And thats what i ment. Anderson defended the takedown due to holding of the shorts.
Anderson was in no position to stop it had he not held on to the shorts. Which is why he did hold on to them.

And another benefit holding of the shorts gave him was it gave him time to work and position himself better. Had he not held the shorts the takedown would have happened alot faster.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> In that position its not impossible. There are slight differences between each position that could change the result of the same position at different instances. Its a game of inches. Iv wrestled for 5 years so i have a little bit of experience to talk on the manner.
> 
> But in the Anderson/Chael instance it was very clearly what stopped the takedown. And thats what i ment. Anderson defended the takedown due to holding of the shorts.
> Anderson was in no position to stop it had he not held on to the shorts. Which is why he did hold on to them.
> ...


I disagree that he wasn't in the position to be able to stop it whether or not he could is a different matter.


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## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

The shorts surely helped, but Anderson was showing he could be sucessful when he kept distance. He was starting to get very comfortable before that whole sequence transpired, and he fought off a very good attempt at throw from Chael. I will admit Silva got away with holding the shorts, but the fights momentum was really start to change in my opinion.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

The reaction to this fight from the MMA community in general is disappointing.

Silva fans giving Chael no credit. Chael fans calling Silva a cheat.

And the little 5% or so left over who are sensible and adult about it? :hug:


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Sterl said:


> The shorts surely helped, but Anderson was showing he could be sucessful when he kept distance. He was starting to get very comfortable before that whole sequence transpired, and he fought off a very good attempt at throw from Chael. I will admit Silva got away with holding the short, but the fights momentum was really start to change in my opinion.


yes but would the momentum switch back in chael's favor if he would have completed the takedown?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Sterl said:


> The shorts surely helped, but Anderson was showing he could be sucessful when he kept distance. He was starting to get very comfortable before that whole sequence transpired, and he fought off a very good attempt at throw from Chael. I will admit Silva got away with holding the shorts, but the fights momentum was really start to change in my opinion.


Yea i mean im not trying to argue any of that. Anderson won and thats all that matters. Im just talking about that very moment because thats something i can talk about. Predicting a fight had events went differently is out of my league.




osmium said:


> I disagree that he wasn't in the position to be able to stop it whether or not he could is a different matter.


Well if he could have stopped the takedown without it then he would have. He knew he needed the extra leverage of the shorts grabbing and so he went for it. He did what he had to do. 

But what i dont recall was he warned about the shorts grabbing before hand??? Or did the ref at that point not say anything. You can see the ref not having a view of what Anderson was doing. Do you remember?

I am a firm believer in if you get warned for something and you still do it after the warning then next time it should be a point. Im sick of fighters grabbing the fence or whatever else and then when they get warned they stop then 10 seconds later they are doing it again and then get warned and stop and so on and so on. At some point you have to put your foot down and make them realize following ALL the rules is important.
Matt Lindland vs Fedor is one i always have a thing about. When lindland went for a takedown and had Fedor in the air and then Fedor grabbed the rope and reversed it.... are you kidding me -_-


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## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> yes but would the momentum switch back in chael's favor if he would have completed the takedown?


He wasn't going to do anything on the ground against Anderson if Anderson was still able to defend the way he was in round one. He was down for 4:56 of round 1, and did a great job of defending.

Its a fair and arguable point though. I just didn't expect Anderson to lose after he stopped respecting any punch Chael threw standing. His hands were always down on the feet and was starting to dodge shots. Everytime Anderson starts to get that comfortable he finishes the guy impressively. Just my thought.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Yea i mean im not trying to argue any of that. Anderson won and thats all that matters. Im just talking about that very moment because thats something i can talk about. Predicting a fight had events went differently is out of my league.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As I said before he was already holding onto them before that attempt. So what are we talking about here? Whether he could let go of the shorts and then defend after the shot or whether he could have defended had he not been holding onto the shorts in the first place. I would say the former is less likely than the latter but not impossible.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Sterl said:


> He wasn't going to do anything on the ground against Anderson if Anderson was still able to defend the way he was in round one. He was down for 4:56 of round 1, and did a great job of defending.
> 
> Its a fair and arguable point though. I just didn't expect Anderson to lose after he stopped respecting any punch Chael threw standing. His hands were always down on the feet and was starting to dodge shots. Everytime Anderson starts to get that comfortable he finishes the guy impressively. Just my thought.


yeah its just all about confidence and how would have silva felt after getting taken down again despite his best efforts and controlled for the second round and how would chael's confidence have boosted after completing the takedown.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> As I said before he was already holding onto them before that attempt. So what are we talking about here? Whether he could let go of the shorts and then defend after the shot or whether he could have defended had he not been holding onto the shorts in the first place. I would say the former is less likely than the latter but not impossible.


Had he defended the takedown had he not held on to the shorts in the first place. 

I was just looking closely at the Gif and it seemed pretty damn obvious to me that when Chael seperated and dropped down for the takedown the only thing that stopped Chael from getting a double leg right there is the fact that Anderson held on to the shorts which basically simulates full underhooks.
Anderson really did plan the shorts holding well. Good for him i guess.

BUT i was also asking something else.

Was Anderson warned before that moment or after it??? You can reread the bottom half of my post for more details.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Had he defended the takedown had he not held on to the shorts in the first place.
> 
> I was just looking closely at the Gif and it seemed pretty damn obvious to me that when Chael seperated and dropped down for the takedown the only thing that stopped Chael from getting a double leg right there is the fact that Anderson held on to the shorts which basically simulates full underhooks.
> Anderson really did plan the shorts holding well.
> ...


Well if he goes for both underhooks immediately he would still have the opportunity to do what I laid out earlier(and a couple other things like attempting to grab one of his wrists and push it down and control it) in the thread if he did it right. Those aren't high percentage defenses by any means so I would say maybe 70%-80% for chael getting the takedown at that point. 

He was warned not to earlier than that at a different point of the fight while he wasn't actually grabbing the shorts and then he was warned after that while he was still holding onto them and punching Chael.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> Well if he goes for both underhooks immediately he would still have the opportunity to do what I laid out earlier(and a couple other things like attempting to grab one of his wrists and push it down and control it) in the thread if he did it right. Those aren't high percentage defenses by any means so I would say maybe 70%-80% for chael getting the takedown at that point.
> 
> He was warned not to earlier than that at a different point of the fight while he wasn't actually grabbing the shorts and then he was warned after that while he was still holding onto them and punching Chael.


Chael was too low and Anderson was too high to make his underhooks effective. I know exactly what you are saying but i think your just not fully aware how underhooks work and when they stop being effective. More towards the second part since you do have a good idea how they work.

See thats what i dont like. When people get warned they should stop and if they dont they should be deducted a point. I just cant stand seeing refs constantly sending out warnings for the same thing. If anything sending out constant warnings does the exact opposite of what its intended to do. They need to start deducting points more often.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Chael was too low and Anderson was too high to make his underhooks effective. I know exactly what you are saying but i think your just not fully aware how underhooks work and when they stop being effective.
> 
> See thats what i dont like. When people get warned they should stop and if they dont they should be deducted a point. I just cant stand seeing refs constantly sending out warnings for the same thing. If anything sending out constant warnings does the exact opposite of what its intended to do. They need to start deducting points more often.


Well I mean it was a phantom foul I don't know whether he thought he was going to and said it as in "don't try to grab the shorts" or if he thought he did grab them. What happened was basically Anderson was giving Chael a cup check I believe positioning his hands to attempt a single he didn't actually grab hold of his shorts. 

Basically this would be comparable to not actually grabbing the fence but having your fingers go through it and being warned not to grab. Should the first time you actually grab be a point deduction in this situation. I think the penalty it should depend on severity and what results. Like if you gain top position because you held onto the fence you should have that position taken away.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

Tito Ortiz retires as a legend. Anderson Silva grabs his opponents shorts and is treated like a cheater.

Tito Ortiz has grabbed the cage more times than Ken Shamrock's legs.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> Well I mean it was a phantom foul I don't know whether he thought he was going to and said it as in "don't try to grab the shorts" or if he thought he did grab them. What happened was *basically Anderson was giving Chael a cup check* I believe positioning his hands to attempt a single he didn't actually grab hold of his shorts.
> 
> Basically this would be comparable to not actually grabbing the fence but having your fingers go through it and being warned not to grab. Should the first time you actually grab be a point deduction in this situation. I think the penalty it should depend on severity and what results. Like if you gain top position because you held onto the fence you should have that position taken away.


haha i must be really immature cuz i laughed out loud reading that part. 

I mean i feel like if i was a ref i could notice shorts grabbing pretty clearly. And i think the second split calls they have to make is very difficult and mistakes are bound to happen.

Anyway it really doesnt matter at this point. We cant know what the difference it would have made other then in that exact moment. So i think we got all we could out of the discussion.



funkasaurus said:


> Tito Ortiz retires as a legend. Anderson Silva grabs his opponents shorts and is treated like a cheater.
> 
> Tito Ortiz has grabbed the cage more times than Ken Shamrock's legs.


What forum do you post on??? Tito Ortiz retired as a legend and Anderson a cheater??

Just cause someone points out something that HAPPENED doesnt mean they think Anderson is a cheater. I think Anderson is amazing and won in impressive fashion. P4P best.

And i think Tito Ortiz would be a legend if he could shut his ******* mouth about excuses and how he fought his heart body and soul each fight. And how he is so bad ass for having surgeries that cripple other athletes but he persevered every chance he gets.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> haha i must be really immature cuz i laughed out loud reading that part.
> 
> I mean i feel like if i was a ref i could notice shorts grabbing pretty clearly. And i think the second split calls they have to make is very difficult and mistakes are bound to happen.


It depends on positioning he was blocked from the one he used to stop the takedown.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> haha i must be really immature cuz i laughed out loud reading that part.
> 
> I mean i feel like if i was a ref i could notice shorts grabbing pretty clearly. And i think the second split calls they have to make is very difficult and mistakes are bound to happen.


The ref was SO close to warning or even DQing Anderson for the knee.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

funkasaurus said:


> The ref was SO close to warning or even DQing Anderson for the knee.


Yeah it looked that way. Either he was blocked and couldn't see where it landed or he saw at the last moment the knee positioning. He had the same OH SHIT IS HE THROWING A KNEE TO THE HEAD?!?!?! reaction that the rest of us did.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

osmium said:


> Yeah it looked that way. Either he was blocked and couldn't see where it landed or he saw at the last moment the knee positioning. He had the same OH SHIT IS HE THROWING A KNEE TO THE HEAD?!?!?! reaction that the rest of us did.


Yeah I mean Anderson might have grabbed his shorts but that stuff happens. Are Sonnen fans/Anderson non-fans really acting like he should be DQed? The fight was standing up for like 30 seconds, it's not like Silva was holding them the entire fight.

One thing that's underrated is Silva's ground game. The second he hits someone, they are in BIG trouble. I mean we all respect his stand up but he finishes almost everyone when he takes them to the ground. Does he get tested for steroids or anything? Because the guy is a complete ANIMAL.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> It depends on positioning he was blocked from the one he used to stop the takedown.


Yeah thats true. He certainly couldnt see the one in the Gif.




funkasaurus said:


> The ref was SO close to warning or even DQing Anderson for the knee.


But that doesnt make Anderson a cheater. That just means the ref didnt see clearly what happened. Even though to me it was clear it landed to the body.




funkasaurus said:


> Yeah I mean Anderson might have grabbed his shorts but that stuff happens. *Are Sonnen fans/Anderson non-fans really acting like he should be DQed?* The fight was standing up for like 30 seconds, it's not like Silva was holding them the entire fight.
> 
> One thing that's underrated is Silva's ground game. The second he hits someone, they are in BIG trouble. I mean we all respect his stand up but he finishes almost everyone when he takes them to the ground. Does he get tested for steroids or anything? Because the guy is a complete ANIMAL.


Who is saying Anderson should be DQed??? Most iv seen is people claiming that they want to see the fight again but this time without that stuff. Which is a reasonable statement to make. Id like a third fight myself. But more because i want to see the fight play out without Chaels dumbass spinning back fist haha.

Yeah when Anderson putting one hand on someone and uses the other one to timely pick his shots, i know the fight is over. I knew it was over as soon as the knee landed. I went from being excited to sitting down thinking "Fuc its over" and 10 seconds later it surely was.


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## Anteries (Oct 22, 2010)

I enjoyed this thread, but have not read all of it. Just want to chip in my two cents. well done Cheal for the first round you had us Anderson fans going for a while. 

The way I see it, in round two Chael blew his gas tank with some epic takedown attempts. But more significantly before the spinning backfist, Anderson punched Chael in the face, a real nasty fast sort of jab. It didn't look much but I think it put Chael in queer Street and led to the ludicrous spinning backfist. and then him sitting on his ass with a comical look on his face.

I love Anderson's knee it was like stabbing the beast though the heart to kill it.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> Yeah thats true. He certainly couldnt see the one in the Gif.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The guy I quoted mentioned not holding referees to split decision calls. I referenced one.

The fact of the matter is, Anderson has finished Chael twice. Just because he slightly grabbed his shorts doesn't warrent a rematch. I'm not as interested in a rematch because 1. Theres no point and 2. Anderson has nothing to gain.

Yeah he is so strong and precise with his ground and pound. I didn't think it was over because I felt that Chael would be able to grab a limb and make my heart sink haha, but Anderson put him away.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

Anteries said:


> I enjoyed this thread, but have not read all of it. Just want to chip in my two cents. well done Cheal for the first round you had us Anderson fans going for a while.
> 
> The way I see it, in round two Chael blew his gas tank with some epic takedown attempts. But more significantly before the spinning backfist, Anderson punched Chael in the face, a real nasty fast sort of jab. It didn't look much but I think it put Chael in queer Street and led to the ludicrous spinning backfist. and then him sitting on his ass with a comical look on his face.
> 
> I love Anderson's knee it was like stabbing the beast though the heart to kill it.


Chael always gasses but his entire style is written around that not making a difference.

Silva had him hurt but I don't think that's why Chael fell. He's not a great striker and at times can land a lunging hook...not a spinning back fist.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Iuanes said:


> On the knee: Again, where have you seen someone use a knee to damage their opponent on the ground from that position AND use it to gain position and pin his opponent down for GNP. Where have seen anybody knee a grounded opponent to the front of their chest?
> 
> People, it isn't actually that easy, Silva just makes it look that way.


Rashad did something very similar against Tito and got the TKO as a result as well  And I want to see Silva face Rashad next, would be an awesome match - also because Rashad present a lot of the dilemmas to Silva that Sonnen did. Rashad throws heavier punches as well.

I love Silva, but I love him even more when he's in fights that challenge him. So I'd like to see him face either Rashad or Munoz next 



AmdM said:


> Having gif's as sig is against the rules if i'm not in mistake.
> Budhu has a pass cause he's a staff member, i guess.


I don't have a .gif in my sig mate?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

funkasaurus said:


> *The guy I quoted mentioned not holding referees to split decision calls. I referenced one.*
> 
> The fact of the matter is, Anderson has finished Chael twice. Just because he slightly grabbed his shorts doesn't warrent a rematch. I'm not as interested in a rematch because 1. Theres no point and 2. Anderson has nothing to gain.
> 
> Yeah he is so strong and precise with his ground and pound. I didn't think it was over because I felt that Chael would be able to grab a limb and make my heart sink haha, but Anderson put him away.


That was me you quoted. And i get it now. I thought you were using that as a way to back up your "Anderson wins but is a cheater" statement. So i was a bit confused.

But yeah i know what your saying. He did look like "Wtf do i stop this" but he let it go and that was obviously the right call. But they do have to make those calls and it isnt easy. Had the knee landed to the face and then Anderson got a tko victory then the ref would be at fault. And obviously that goes the other way too.


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