# UFC discussion from the past 6



## xeberus

Great fighter or Greatest fighter?

lol, but srsly. he was good back in the day and helped raise the sport to the level it is now. so how do you feel about ken shamrock? and does anyone know who/if he plans to fight?


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## masthrrck

he is one of the greatest legends ever just from his impact of helping the sport hes the only pioneer to have been here from the start


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## Wise

Ive never really liked Ken but I still think hes done alot to help make the sport more popular. His feud with Tito I would say probably brought in more fans to the UFC then any other rivalry ever. I really hope he doesnt come back to fight though. I understand the warrior spirit but his knees are terrible now and I dont want to see another legend like Sakuraba running around only able to beat scrubs and just getting stomped by any young talent. Say it with me 3 times Ken, I am not Randy Couture, I am not Randy Couture, I am not Randy Couture.


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## NikosCC

He started this Sport as well so hes Considered one of the Greatest Fighters.


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## kaiser1041

hes done a lot for the sport but his best days are behind him hes back in talks with the ufc


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## Maximus

One of the greatest - I mean he's in the UFC Hall of Fame. But, I seriously want him to sit in the audience instead of stand in the Octagon. He's seriously diminishing his legacy coming off of all those brutal losses, and he's well beyond his prime. It would be different if he was fighting guys his own age, but then again he lost to Don Frye a while back. Unless his next fight is against Frank Shamrock, I wish that he would retire and continue to train others to be good fighters.


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## ufcelite112

I give Ken the up most respect. Without Ken, who knows, maybe the UFC would not be what it is today, or maybe there would be no UFC. Ken has transcended a sport into the mainstream, and for that I commend him.

His first bout against Tito was the start of a revolution. GO KENNNY!


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## Asian Sensation

he definatelty helped alot with the development of the sport but as far as being a fighter goes i'd say he was good but not great


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## TKOSPIKE

Maximus said:


> It would be different if he was fighting guys his own age, but then again he lost to Don Frye a while back.


well imo that fight could have gone either way. it was a split decision. imo i think ken won that fight,but thats just me.


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## Alula

OH SHI-

Channers in my mmaforum?

He could never beat Royce, even when he had a 50+lbs advantage.


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## Damone

Was a good fighter who helped the sport grow. Definitely an influential fighter, who had one of the all time best training camps (Lions Den). He had swank sideburns, too. I mean, sure, he has been in 3 of the worst fights ever, but that doesn't mean he can't be entertaining. I dug the hell out of his fights with Kimo (Ken going all leglocky on Kimo ruled. Sure, it's Kimo, but that shit still rules), Frye (Epic fight, and Ken pulled off a flyin' heel hook), and Severn (Their first fight, of course).

So, yeah, I like Ken.


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## Terry77

Ken went from ufc 1 to 61, that alone is a great accomplishment and compliment to his ability and/or drawing power. Shamrock also had the coolest leg locks ever, I mean his heel hook on Pat Smith and spinning knee bar on Bas Rutten are utterly awesome. And the flying heel hook on Don Frye. 

Shamrock pretty much put the ufc to a new level. Shamrock vs Ortiz was the first really good card Zuffa had produced (debateable). First one to have betting lines mainstream and most buys. Tito = star. Tito loses to Couture = star. Liddell beats Tito. Liddell = star. Liddell and Couture have the first TUF which captures a whole new core of fans.


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## Negative1

Ken is my favorite fighter and always will be despite the losses last year in under 3 minutes, hes still a legend to me and it would be an honor to shake hands with him.

Also, I'm glad to finally see a thread about Shamrock where more then 95% of it is positive :thumbsup: Reading these threads lately with all these terrible comments about Ken honestly, it makes my stomache sick. I have soo much respect for that man you guys have no idea, and to hear some good news about him and the UFC is good to know and I have to see these disrespectful comments about the same thing. 

Ken's transition into pro wrestling defenatly was a good thing for both the sport and for himself, he got his name out there and made a ton of loop and also got the word around about the UFC, heck, him and Owen Hart also had a Lion's Den match and another in Stu Harts Dungeon, all in honor of MMA.

The Randy Couture thing is getting old too, 'Ken is not Randy' ... it should be the other way around, Randy is not Ken.


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## Terry77

Ken was a pro wrestler before an mma fighter. He made the cross back for the money, I can't blame him. He finished his contract got some offers and went back to what he loves doing. Sure Ken was broken down and past his athletic prime but hell he put on some great fights. I mean Fujita, Frye and Tito one and all huge, epic and fun fights.


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## Damone

> I mean his heel hook on Pat Smith and spinning knee bar on Bas Rutten are utterly awesome. And the flying heel hook on Don Frye.


I can only agree on 2 of those 3 things.

Ken vs Fujita did indeed rule. I can't believe I didn't mention that. Also, I liked his fight with Otsuka a lot. Granted, it's Otsuka, but Ken did look really good in that fight.


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## Terry77

Yeah it's Ostuka so it kind of took away from the big fight feel. The Lion's Den was also the first offical mma team/camp. So once again Ken is an influence.


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## TKOSPIKE

lol oh hell yeah, pat smith, both bas fights, severn 1, both kimo fights, otsuka, fujita, frye, first tito fight, all gooddd


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## XCopyCatX

One of my favorite fighters forever...The man has integrity, and I believe that every fighter should thank him for his contribution to the sport...That being said, I have to agree with Maximus. I would rather see him coaching some new talent than getting kicked around the octagon. He doesn't really have anything left to prove...


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## xeberus

yea, hes great, and hes done so much for the sport. his feud with tito brought alot of people into the sport. but damn i just wish he could put up a better fight rather than getting beat down horribly 3 times in a row.


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## xeberus

*Does Arlovski deserve a title shot?*

I read in afew other threads that AA deserves a title shot? What do you guys think of AA? Does he deserve a title shot? And how do you think he would perform against other heavy weights coming over from pride, or/and tim "crapzilla" silvia should they fight again.


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## Josh3239

This is coming from a huge Arlovski fan first off.

I don't think he really deserves one but I cannot right now off the top of my head think that anyone else is in line ahead of him. I suppose he could fight Nogeira (if he wins) or Cheik Kongo (if he wins) for the #1 contender.


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## xeberus

Josh3239 said:


> This is coming from a huge Arlovski fan first off.
> 
> I don't think he really deserves one but I cannot right now off the top of my head think that anyone else is in line ahead of him. I suppose he could fight Nogeira (if he wins) or Cheik Kongo (if he wins) for the #1 contender.


Yea, but do you see him beating CC, shogun, couture?


SHOGUN IS 205!!!! I KNOW, YOU KNOW, WE ALL KNOW!!! its a dream fight, i want to see it happen, prob not going to happen like fedor v couture.


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## cdtcpl

I don't think he deserves the title. His last fight wasn't the fight of someone who wanted a championship belt around his waist, it was the fight of someone afraid to lose again and lose his contract. He must show that old warrior spirit that made him the champ to begin with. He has heavy hands and a really awesome ground game, he should use them and make oponents realize there is no where to hide from him. Right now his weakness is his fear of being let go by the UFC with all this new talent they are brining in.


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## bbjd7

I think AA needs to beat a top contender to earn a spot and he also has to wait behind Sylvia who is ahead of him. I like AA but he needs to get agressive again he's been pretty boring since Sylvia beat him the first time. 

AA IMO would do ok against the current HW divison

AA vs Couture Win idk I think AA takes it but it'll be tough

AA vs Sylvia 4 Win I don't care because I won't watch this fight if it happens

AA vs Big Nog Loss Big Nog has faced better strikers then AA and beaten them.

AA vs Cro Cop Loss I think Cro Cop would sit back and catch him with a kick

AA vs Gonzaga Win Until I see more of Gonzaga's stand up I think AA is a good match up for him

AA vs Fedor Loss AA worst match up in MMA is Fedor a guy who is better in stand up and will destroy him on the ground.


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## liveson777

He deservres a shot just becoz i cant think of any other heavyweight who shoyuld get it before him... lol everyone else is coming off a loss eheheh


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## bbjd7

xeberus said:


> Yea, but do you see him beating CC, shogun, couture?


Shogun isn't a HW but if they did fight........
I don't know because Andre stand up reminds me of Overeem a lot and Overeem trashed Shogun standing the 2nd fight. But i'd be curios to see If Shogun could clinch AA and knee him. If Shogun gets AA down AA is done because Shogun's GNP is vicous


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## OV Pimp

I like AA. I do not, however, think he deserves a title shot until he beats a contender though. Personally, I think him vs. Cro Cop would be an awesome stand-up battle and if he won that, then we could talk about whether or not he deserves a title shot. Until then, I'm gonna have to say no.


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## Josh3239

xeberus said:


> Yea, but do you see him beating CC, shogun, couture?


That's not the point. The question was, does Arlovski deserve a title shot. Do you know of anybody a head of him?

Cro Cop is coming off a loss, he is not the #1 contender and doesn't deserve a title shot.

Shogun I thought was in a different weight class the LHWs, not the HWs so I don't see what that has to do with anything.

Couture is the champ so I'd say that him deserving a title shot was 4 months ago.


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## bbjd7

Josh3239 said:


> That's not the point. The question was, does Arlovski deserve a title shot. Do you know of anybody a head of him?
> 
> Cro Cop is coming off a loss, he is not the #1 contender and doesn't deserve a title shot.
> 
> Shogun I thought was in a different weight class the LHWs, not the HWs so I don't see what that has to do with anything.
> 
> Couture is the champ so I'd say that him deserving a title shot was 4 months ago.


First Couture didnl't earn his shot.
2nd It was part of the OP that's why he asked you not to see if you thought those 3 deserved title shots.
3rd Sylvia is ahead of AA he lost a decison with a bad back injury and without getting really tagged after the 1st round so he defiantly has earned another shot if AA got one right after his loss.


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## xeberus

bbjd7 said:


> Shogun isn't a HW but if they did fight........
> I don't know because Andre stand up reminds me of Overeem a lot and Overeem trashed Shogun standing the 2nd fight. But i'd be curios to see If Shogun could clinch AA and knee him. If Shogun gets AA down AA is done because Shogun's GNP is vicous



sigh*

yes i know shogun isnt a HW, he fights at LHW mmaweekly has him at the #1 205er. him fighting is like a dream fight, oh this is off subject but did u see the fight /w shogun and rampage in 2005? if i had only 2 words to descibe rampage during the fight they would be "bitch owned"


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## liveson777

bbjd7 said:


> First Couture didnl't earn his shot.
> 2nd It was part of the OP that's why he asked you not to see if you thought those 3 deserved title shots.
> 3rd Sylvia is ahead of AA he lost a decison with a bad back injury and without getting really tagged after the 1st round so he defiantly has earned another shot if AA got one right after his loss.


sylvia is not ahead of AA syliva has to win a fight ... hes still got some more fights to win....

right now the only one who deserves the shot is AA... but i could care less if he gets it im not a fan.... but if anyone deserves it its AA


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## liveson777

xeberus said:


> sigh*
> 
> yes i know shogun isnt a HW, he fights at LHW mmaweekly has him at the #1 205er. him fighting is like a dream fight, oh this is off subject but did u see the fight /w shogun and rampage in 2005? if i had only 2 words to descibe rampage during the fight they would be "bitch owned"




lol ya a bit off topic ... has aboslutely nothing to do with this thread hehehehe


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## xeberus

liveson777 said:


> lol ya a bit off topic ... has aboslutely nothing to do with this thread hehehehe


Its the ADD man >_<

I think if AA gets his "mojo" back, like he had the first arlovski v tim fight he could possibly beat couture (if couture beats gonzaga) and if he got the title, potentially he could fight fedor...  wishing thinking maybe


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## bbjd7

liveson777 said:


> sylvia is not ahead of AA syliva has to win a fight ... hes still got some more fights to win....
> 
> right now the only one who deserves the shot is AA... but i could care less if he gets it im not a fan.... but if anyone deserves it its AA


two of the last 3 guys to get title shots Couture and AA didn't win there last fight before their title shot. I can't really stand Sylvia but I think he by fighting injured deserves a title shot before the guy he beat twice.


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## Josh3239

bbjd7 said:


> First Couture didnl't earn his shot.


No, no no. Couture has nothing to do with deserving a title shot. It doesn't matter if he earned it or not he is the champion.



bbjd7 said:


> Sylvia is ahead of AA he lost a decison with a bad back injury and without getting really tagged after the 1st round so he defiantly has earned another shot if AA got one right after his loss.


That is fine if you want to believe that, doesn't bother me. However I look at like this: Arlovski won his last 2 fights and Sylvia lost his last fight which was a title match. I don't believe a guy who lost the title should get an immediate rematch. Now if you compare the 2: guy coming off a lose in a title fight versus a guy who won his last two fights, I personnaly would get the title shot to the second guy.

But you can believe w/e you want, I won't lose sleep over it :laugh:

I am most definetly not saying Arlovski deserves it, what I am saying is; what are the alternatives?


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## Hett

AA is at least one, maybe 2, fights away before a deserves a title shot.


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## steveo412

So was Datsik really retarded? It was funny when he KOd Arlovski


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## bbjd7

Josh3239 said:


> No, no no. Couture has nothing to do with deserving a title shot. It doesn't matter if he earned it or not he is the champion.
> 
> 
> 
> That is fine if you want to believe that, doesn't bother me. However I look at like this: Arlovski won his last 2 fights and Sylvia lost his last fight which was a title match. I don't believe a guy who lost the title should get an immediate rematch. Now if you compare the 2: guy coming off a lose in a title fight versus a guy who won his last two fights, I personnaly would get the title shot to the second guy.
> 
> But you can believe w/e you want, I won't lose sleep over it :laugh:
> 
> I am most definetly not saying Arlovski deserves it, what I am saying is; what are the alternatives?


O I just put the part in about Couture because the fact that he got a title shot always kinda got under my skin it wasn't really directed toward you.

I don't think Sylvia should get a title shot in his next fight but I do feel that He should get one if he wins his fight in October. and Since Arlovski is probably fighting in September I don't think even if Arlovski wins that he should get a shot in front of Sylvia who would be 7-1 since he lost to Arlovski instead of Arlovski who would be 4-2 since he beat Sylvia. 
My guess would be that either Big Nog or Fedor is getting the next shot since Dana said as soon as Fedor signs he gets a title match and they put Big Nog on the card with the title match so it would be an equal amount of time between fights for the champ and Big Nog. 

My only thing is that if Guy A beats Guy B twice then they both win their next fight. Then Guy A loses and Guy B wins. I still put Guy A ahead of Guy B but thats just me W/E


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## Judoka

I there should be a small heavyweight tournament to determine the next title shot.


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## xeberus

steveo412 said:


> So was Datsik really retarded? It was funny when he KOd Arlovski


well i say mentally challenged is the term, and he isnt limitations are minimal compared to some other retarded persons. but hes a *********.


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## xeberus

Hett said:


> AA is at least one, maybe 2, fights away before a deserves a title shot.


I think if AA can beat gonzaga/couture (loser of the couture/gonzaga fight) or big nog or jesu.. i mean fedor he deserves a shot.


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## gwabblesore

AA deserves no title shot til he looks like a werewolf again..seriously somebody send him the memo


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## hvylthr34

No way he deserves a title shot anytime soon, he hasent even shown that he can be a top contender, he was lack luster in his last fight and he couldent even beat sylvia the past two times, I think he has the possiblity to be a top contender as long as he starts kicking some ass at the top of that division otherwise no way.


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## Fedor>all

Arlovski deserves a title shot more than anyone else in the division at this point (after Gonzaga of course). Nogueira needs some warm-up fights to let casual fans know who he is and Cro Cop needs to redeem himself by going on a tear.

Arlovski has won his last 2 UFC fights, whether they were entertaining or not. That puts him infront of the other guys by default IMO.


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## Slamnbam88

vera
vera
vera
vera
vera
vera
vera
vera


vera should get the next shot...he was supposed to anyways
AA has lost against tim (i really doubt vera would, but i love AA) Vera Vs. AA = #1 contender...loser should fight fedor if he comes in


im sick of vera not fighting and his management fuckign up his title shot.


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## BradNeverSubmit

No, Arlovski needs to prove that he wants it back first, not to mention he did a lowsey job of protecting it. with the great new talent now signed and signing possibly in the future. Arlovski doesnt interest me much in that devision anymore. If you look at his history you can see that he has never fought an opponent that matches up with fighters such as Nogueira, Gonzaga, Cro-cop, and the soon Fedor. Tim Silva has beat him twice, can you see silva even competeting with these guys, i cant. This is all my opinion and im not trying to upset any Arlovski fans but i dont think i can see him on top again


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## Arlovski_Fan

BradNeverSubmit said:


> No, Arlovski needs to prove that he wants it back first, not to mention he did a lowsey job of protecting it. with the great new talent now signed and signing possibly in the future. Arlovski doesnt interest me much in that devision anymore. If you look at his history you can *see that he has never fought an opponent that matches up with fighters such as* Nogueira, *Gonzaga*, Cro-cop, and the soon Fedor. Tim Silva has beat him twice, can you see silva even competeting with these guys, i cant. This is all my opinion and im not trying to upset any Arlovski fans but i dont think i can see him on top again


hahahahahahahahahahahah


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## Judoka

I like Arlovski but with the new signing i don't think he will touch the belt again but will be a good competitor nonetheless.


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## Toxie

AA lost his hunger. He is not entertaining anymore and it sucks because i used to like watching him. Right now, he has to show that he still has talent so no, he shouldnt get a title shot just yet.


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## Chrisl972

I think that the best thing for AA was them signing all the new guys. I think that a game AA can give any of them a match and has a good chance of beating them as well. The signings will give him a chance to make up the respect he has lost.

If AA can learn to keep his gameplan, but turn up the pace, the man will crush some of the top guys. His Overhand Right is explosive and deadly. He has plenty enough skill on the ground to keep from getting subbed and his strength is world class, so that gives guys a HUGE problem in the clinch.

The only thing that is lacking in his game right now is the mental side of that, and I feel that the problem is he's trying to hard to reel it in. He should let it go, feel the hate and unleash his fury!!! OK I got a little dramatic there, but you get my drift.


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## TheNegation

I wanna see AA andRandleman fight, if Randleman could get his license to fight back.
I just think that would be a great match up of their styles.


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## ufcrules

nooooo


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## Adrnalnrsh

xeberus said:


> well i say mentally challenged is the term, and he isnt limitations are minimal compared to some other retarded persons. but hes a *********.



Don't mean to be a pest, but incorrect use of the word "*********". 


Definitions of ********* on the Web:

* (see also: race) A genetically and physiologically identifiable race of the human species. Includes people of north and east Asia, Malaysians, and American Indians. Orientals are part of this race.
Glossary

* characteristic of or resembling a Mongol; "the ********* epicanthic fold"
* a member of the ********* race
* of or pertaining to or characteristic of one of the traditional racial division of humankind including especially peoples of central and eastern Asia

* The term ********* (or less often, and incorrectly Sinoid) describes a proposed -but, relatively easy to identify- race of humans, most of whom live in North Asia, Central Asia, East Asia, Oceania or the Americas as natives.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/*********


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## Okami-Fan

i am a HUGE HUGE HUGE Fan of Arlovski and i think he should get the title shot not b/c of his preformce in his last 2 fights but b/c no one else has one there last fight.Also i agree with Chrisl972 Andrei needs to get his mental game back and start killing ppl again. but ithink were the new fighters are getting signed it will make him try harder to prove he's still one of the top 5 best heavyweights in the world.


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## Okami-Fan

by the way why did randleman lose his licences


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## TheNegation

Cro_Cop said:


> by the way why did randleman lose his licences


Submitted a fake urine sample, same as being caught on roids.
Still my favourite ***** amigo in MMA though


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## jdun11

He beat 2 one dimensional fighters big deal. I want to see him fight Nogueira with the winner getting a title shot.


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## Chrisl972

jdun11 said:


> He beat 2 one dimensional fighters big deal. I want to see him fight Nogueira with the winner getting a title shot.


I would agree with this. If he were to beat Big Nog, even by UD, you have to admit that he deserves a title shot.


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## wafb

Adrnalnrsh said:


> Don't mean to be a pest, but incorrect use of the word "*********".
> 
> 
> Definitions of ********* on the Web:
> 
> * (see also: race) A genetically and physiologically identifiable race of the human species. Includes people of north and east Asia, Malaysians, and American Indians. Orientals are part of this race.
> Glossary
> 
> * characteristic of or resembling a Mongol; "the ********* epicanthic fold"
> * a member of the ********* race
> * of or pertaining to or characteristic of one of the traditional racial division of humankind including especially peoples of central and eastern Asia
> 
> * The term ********* (or less often, and incorrectly Sinoid) describes a proposed -but, relatively easy to identify- race of humans, most of whom live in North Asia, Central Asia, East Asia, Oceania or the Americas as natives.
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/*********


You believe everything you read on wiki?


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## bbjd7

Chrisl972 said:


> I would agree with this. If he were to beat Big Nog, even by UD, you have to admit that he deserves a title shot.


If he beats Big Nog he defiantly has earned himself a title shot.


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## MagiK11

i voted no. He needs to fight one more top contender and beat him without holding back and having a really boring ass fight.


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## xeberus

*Your Favorite Fights*

This thread is for people to state their favorite fights of all time ufc/pride/k-1, and if possible please provide a link.

this is a great place to highlight fights that perhaps people have missed or never heard about.


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## Lotus

don frye vs takayama was a slug fest beyond all slug fests at pride 21


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## xeberus

Lotus669 said:


> don frye vs takayama was a slug fest beyond all slug fests at pride 21


oh god, ive seen that it was amazing, so many punches thrown and landed.


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## Lotus

Oh i know I mean you watch fights where a fighter throws a stiff hook and the guy goes down...out cold, these two were throwing straights, hooks, and haymakers all of em landing. It's just sick that it was stopped by the ref and not by a knockout incredible endurance


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## Simon Phoenix

Check the Avatar


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## Lotus

WOW quite the avatar.... oh wait there is no avatar care to explain a little further?


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## ID06

Robbie Lawler vs. Chris Lytle
Robbie Lawler vs. Nick Diaz
Robbie Lawler vs. Aaron Riley
Spencer Fisher vs. Sam Stout I & II
Matt Hughes vs. Frank Trigg II
Joe Riggs vs. Nick Diaz has also really grown on me
Frye vs. Takayama
Nick Diaz vs. Gomi


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## americanfighter

Randy vs tim


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## OV Pimp

*UFC* - Forrest Griffin vs. Stephan Bonnar (1)

*Pride* - Takanori Gomi vs. Nick Diaz


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## capt_america

randy vs belfort 1
randy vs tito
CC vs Wandy
Diaz vs Alessio


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## hvylthr34

Randy vs. Tim
Crocop vs. Fedor
Griffin vs. Bonnar 1
Fedor vs. Hunt


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## Couddell

Kent Shamorock VS Tito Ortiz


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## esv

diego sanchez vs karo parisyan


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## Foon

I'll stay away from my usual Karo Parisyan and Nick Diaz fight loving. I've got a huge list here, but I like all these fights:

Stephan Bonnar vs. Keith Jardine
Stephan Bonnar vs. Rashad Evans
Stephan Bonnar vs. Sam Hogar

Any Forrest Griffin fight

Ed Herman vs. Jason Macdonald

Kenny Florian vs. Dokonjonosuke Mishima
Kenny Florian vs. Alex Karalexis
Kenny Florian vs. Kit Cope
Kenny Florian vs. Sam Stout
Kenny Florian vs. Sean Sherk

Jason Von Flue vs. Luke Cummo
Jason Von Flue vs. Alex Karalexis

Luke Cummo vs. Josh Haynes
Luke Cummo vs. Joe Stevenson

Joe Stevenson vs Josh Neer

Rory Singer vs. Josh Haynes

Sam Stout vs Spencer Fisher
Sam Stout vs Spencer Fisher Rematch

Roger Huerta vs Jason Dent 

Jon Fitch vs Jeff Joslin (Freedom Fight 2005)

Kazushi Sakuraba vs Carlos Newton (PRIDE 3)


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## ZZtigerZZ81

Guida vs. Griffin (UFC)

F. Shamrock vs. Baroni (Finally Baroni exposed as the awful puncher he really is....so overrated)

F. Shamrock vs. Rutten and Ortiz

Penn vs. Hughes (I and II even though the second outcome sucked)


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## Don$ukh

Straying from UFC Sakuraba vs Smirnovas was one of the best comebacks I have seen. The punishment both fighter took was amazing. Saku has a heart of a lion!!
Video K1 HEROS Sakuraba vs Smirnovas - K1, HEROS, Kazushi, The, MMA - Dailymotion Share Your Videos


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## JDub618

Nogueira vs. Shogun & Hughes vs. Trigg


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## Pirdefan

Pride:Fedor vs Cro Cop

Ufc:Randy Couture vs Sylvia!


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## Pirdefan

Couddell said:


> Kent Shamorock VS Tito Ortiz


You obvisouly havent seen the fight cause you cant even spell KEN shamrocks name.


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## jamlena

Too many to mention but I just finished watching Fedor against Mark Hunt and man that was a great fight. Hunt almost had Fedor with the Kimura like 2 or 3 times but Fedor always got out and eventually Fedor won with the freakin' Kimura...f'n awesome :thumbsup:


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## bbjd7

#5 Frank Shamrock vs Igor Zinozev - greatest slam in MMA history
YouTube - Frank Shamrock VS Igor Zinoviev
#4 Wanderlei Silva vs Guy Mezger - outstanding fight.
YouTube - Frank Shamrock VS Igor Zinoviev
#3 Shogun Rua vs Ricardo Arona - possibly the worst beating I've ever seen a top fighter take
Video Ricardo Arona vs Mauricio "Shogun" Rua - GP, FINAL - Dailymotion Share Your Videos
#2 Frank Shamrock vs Phil Baroni - Great fight and it proved my boy Frank isn't over the hill yet
( i would put the link but it's not online anymore)
#1 Shogun Rua vs Antonio Rogerio Nogueria - Without a doubt the best fight in MMA history it had everything great ground work and fun to watch stand up I've never enjoyed a fight so much.
Video Shogun Rua vs Rogerio Nogueira Part 1 - Shogun, Rua, Rogerio, Nogueira - Dailymotion Share Your Videos
Video Shogun Rua vs Rogerio Nogueira Part 2 - Shogun, Rua, Rogerio, Nogueira - Dailymotion Share Your Videos


----------



## screenamesuck

As far as full on wars goes...

Diego Sanchez/Karo Parisyan
Diego Sanchez/Nick Diaz
Karo Parisyan/Nick Diaz
Nick Diaz/Gomi
Tyson Griffin/Clay Guida
Forrest Griffin/Stephen Bonnar 1
Roger Huerta/Garcia


More one sided fights that I love watching....

Diego Sanchez/Joe Riggs
Matt Hughes/BJ Penn 1
Matt Hughes/BJ Penn 2 (the first 2 rounds lol)
Matt Hughes/GSP 2

I just love watching Matt Hughes get owned.


----------



## Damone

Frank Shamrock vs Tito Ortiz (UFC 22).

I'm sort of disappointed by the lack of love for this fight. I mean, it's the best fight ever, so it should be on everybodies list.

Mark Coleman vs Maurice Smith.

Again, lack of love. This is the second greatest UFC fight ever, and one of the best performances in MMA.

Some non-UFC fight love, because I get to post links.

YouTube - Caol Uno vs. Rumina Sato 1 - Part One

Uno vs Sato 1 part 1.

YouTube - Caol Uno vs. Rumina Sato 1 - Part Two

Part 2.

Video Bas Rutten vs Masakatsu Funaki - Bas Rutten, Masakatsu Funaki - Dailymotion Share Your Videos

Bas Rutten vs Masakatsu Funaki (09/07/96).

My favorite Bas Rutten fight ever.


----------



## Damone

I love Rumina Sato.


----------



## TKOSPIKE

Damone said:



> Frank Shamrock vs Tito Ortiz (UFC 22).
> 
> I'm sort of disappointed by the lack of love for this fight. I mean, it's the best fight ever, so it should be on everybodies list.


agree:thumbsup:


----------



## The Legend

I am going to do this a little different I am going to say my favorite DEC victory then my favorite KO/SUB vicotory.

UFC- DEC: Tito Ortiz vs. Vitor Belfort UFC 51: Super Saturday. KO/SUB: Nick Daiz vs. Robbie Lawler UFC 47: It's On 
Overall Favorite UFC Fight: Tito Ortiz vs. Vitor Belfort UFC 51: Super Saturday

Pride- DEC: Don Frye vs. Ken Shamrock Pride 19: Bad Blood
KO/SUB: Ricardo Arona vs. Quinton Jackson Pride: Critical Countdown 2004
Overall Favorite Pride Fight: Ricardo Arona vs. Quinton Jackson Pride: Critical Countdown 2004

Overall Favorite Fight: Tito Ortiz vs. Vitor Belfort UFC 51: Super Saturday


----------



## bbjd7

Damone said:


> Frank Shamrock vs Tito Ortiz (UFC 22).
> 
> I'm sort of disappointed by the lack of love for this fight. I mean, it's the best fight ever, so it should be on everybodies list.
> [/url]


Wow i completly forgot about Shamrock Ortiz i mean wow. I would probably put that fight 2nd behind Shogun vs Nogueira and replace Shamrock vs Baroni. I mean I really can't believe I forgot Frank's most impressive fight of his career. I would say that it's my favorite fight but i prefer the ground work in Nog vs Shogun. But I mean damn I forgot Shamrock vs Tito that is one of my favorite fights. Just WOW


----------



## Godzuki

GSP v Hughes 2, because it was my favourite fighter winning the title in such a great way. Guida v Griffin, such a brilliant, high-tempo, technical fight. Bonnar v Griffin 1, watching two guys with huge hearts and heavy hands, smack the bejeezus out of each other, brilliant. Barnett v Rizzo, Pedro keeps smacking Josh in the nose, but he keeps on coming, great fight with a great KO. Hughes v Trigg 2, I love fights where one guy is getting badly beaten, but finds it within himself to overcome his opponent. That is IMO the mark of a truly great fighter.


----------



## TKOSPIKE

bbjd7 said:


> Wow i completly forgot about Shamrock Ortiz i mean wow. I would probably put that fight 2nd behind Shogun vs Nogueira and replace Shamrock vs Baroni. I mean I really can't believe I forgot Frank's most impressive fight of his career. I would say that it's my favorite fight but i prefer the ground work in Nog vs Shogun. But I mean damn I forgot Shamrock vs Tito that is one of my favorite fights. Just WOW


dont forget frank/horn :thumb02:


----------



## wafb

UFC- Hughes vs St.Pierre part 2 part 3 coming soon I hope.

Pride- Cro cop Vs. Fedor.


----------



## xeberus

*Ortiz Vs Griffin 2*

The first fight between these two fighters went the distance with tito winning via decision. ive heard and also thought to myself what would happen should they fight again, alot of people say it was a very close fight. 

Ortiz was offered a rematch with griffin, but said he was above him and another fight (when he was in good health) with griffin would end with the same result as the first.

so who would win? would the outcome be different?


----------



## the real hitman

xeberus said:


> The first fight between these two fighters went the distance with tito winning via decision. ive heard and also thought to myself what would happen should they fight again, alot of people say it was a very close fight.
> 
> Ortiz was offered a rematch with griffin, but said he was above him and another fight (when he was in good health) with griffin would end with the same result as the first.
> 
> so who would win? would the outcome be different?


I bet Tito might lose


----------



## Penn_FTW

I think tito would win, however it might be a good fight. especially if it goes the distance again.


----------



## Flak

Could go either way, but ill say Tito via GnP. Im still impressed that Forrest survived that first round and came back to (in my opinion) win.

I think if it happened again Tito would get another take down in rnd 2 and gets the decision.


----------



## OV Pimp

Tito would not win if they fought again. Forrest has more experience now, plus he's already fought Tito and know's exactly how he fights. I would say the same for Tito about Griffin, but Forrest Griffin never fights the same way, one fight he'll stand up the next fight he'll take you down and submit you. You just never know with the guy. If they fought again I'd go with Forrest by UD.


----------



## Blakey

Tito like he won the 1st fight, while injured im sick of stupid threads like this, he won the 1st round 10-8 therefore gaining VICTORY!


----------



## jamlena

i think Griffen takes the win on the re-match.


----------



## xeberus

Blakey said:


> Tito like he won the 1st fight, while injured im sick of stupid threads like this, he won the 1st round 10-8 therefore gaining VICTORY!


Alot of people on this thread think Griffin would win should they fight again.


----------



## xeberus

jamlena said:


> i think Griffen takes the win on the re-match.


care to elaborate as to how/why


----------



## jamlena

xeberus said:


> care to elaborate as to how/why


I just think that even though Griffen lost to Jardine, he is still improving and getting better where as I feel Ortiz has peaked already, Tito Ortiz is Tito...he's no push-over but I think Griffen has learned and would be ready for Tito, oh well that's my .02 anyway.


----------



## bbjd7

TKOSPIKE said:


> dont forget frank/horn :thumb02:


With Frank every fight is a classic and they are all classic for a diffrent reason.


----------



## OV Pimp

Haha good ole' Frank. I wish he'd come back to the UFC...


----------



## J Stokes420

*i have a lot of favorite fights lol....

liddell vs. ortiz (1)

griffin vs. bonnar (1)

franklin vs. quarry (sick KO)

diaz vs. lawler 

cummo vs. stevenson

griffin vs. ortiz

penn vs. pulver (2)*


----------



## The Legend

^ Franklin vs. Quarry was one of the most underrated KO's ever I never here about that KO.


----------



## Damone

Franklin vs Quarry gets talked about constantly.


----------



## loxly

two favorites

Chonan Vs. Anderson Silva

and first Rampage Vs. Liddell


----------



## TKOSPIKE

bbjd7 said:


> With Frank every fight is a classic and they are all classic for a diffrent reason.


lol well yeah thats true


----------



## Damone

Frank Shamrock vs Jeremy Horn was pretty damn great, and one of the best, most underrated UFC fights ever. Dana needs to start releasing some of this stuff on DVD.


----------



## TKOSPIKE

Damone said:


> Frank Shamrock vs Jeremy Horn was pretty damn great, and one of the best, most underrated UFC fights ever. Dana needs to start releasing some of this stuff on DVD.


yeah i know right:thumbsup:


----------



## Godzuki

Damn, I almost forgot, Diaz v Gomi. I've not seen a massive number of Pride fights, but of those I have seen this is my favourite so far. Gomi had an interesting defensive style, (basically hands down by his side!) which made it pretty exciting and that was a brilliant sub by Diaz. Just a shame it wasn't for the title.


----------



## The Legend

Damone said:


> Franklin vs Quarry gets talked about constantly.


Then I am never around when they talk about it.


----------



## NSaNe PuNk

i like any fights that have had sick KO's or just really good endings...lol

liddell vs. ortiz 

franklin vs. quarry

mcfedries vs. radev

loisaeu vs. tanner

lawler vs. diaz

thats just a few...


----------



## americanfighter

Greatest fighter!! i mean fedor had troubble with fugita but ken domitated him untill he had heart problems at the end.


----------



## Wise

Fedor got caught by Fujita and then he came to ruin him the rest of the fight. Thats some horrible MMA math right there.


----------



## Damone

americanfighter said:


> Greatest fighter!! i mean fedor had troubble with fugita but ken domitated him untill he had heart problems at the end.


Some Ken fans are odd. Like, really, really odd. I like the guy, but what?


----------



## Duffman

hall of fame----enough said


----------



## NikosCC

Hes one of the greatest Legends but IMO i don't think he was ever that good..


----------



## xeberus

NikosCroCop said:


> Hes one of the greatest Legends but IMO i don't think he was ever that good..



I think in the mid-90s it would be a better fight.


----------



## the real hitman

I liked watching Ken wrestler more than I did watching him fight...
vs Christioph Lenniger=very boring
vs Gracie2=boring
vs Taktarov=boring
vssevern 2=very boring
vs Frye= worse than I expected

Him wrestloing was fun as hell to wastch


----------



## xeberus

*If Fedor went LHW*

how do you guys think he would fair in the UFC?


----------



## BazDaManUk

even more powerful and unbeatable compared to the oponents he would be facing i.e. he would be bigger than most where as at heavweight he will face fighters bigger than him


----------



## e-thug

There is no way on this god green earth that Fedor could make 205.

I just cant see it.

If by some miracle he did, then have mercy on the LHW division.


----------



## hollando

BazDaManUk said:


> even more powerful and unbeatable compared to the oponents he would be facing i.e. he would be bigger than most where as at heavweight he will face fighters bigger than him


i bigger what do you mean

like size/girth 

or height and reach?


----------



## Split

if Fedor went LHW, Wanderlei, Rampage, Shogun, Chuck and Tito would go HW :thumb02: 

The worse is, im barely joking.


----------



## headxsmasher

worst thread ever


----------



## FuTuReLeGenD

Split said:


> if Fedor went LHW, Wanderlei, Rampage, Shogun, Chuck and Tito would go HW :thumb02:
> 
> The worse is, im barely joking.


 thats like telling Kobe to go play street ball. jus not fair


----------



## Calibretto9

Fedor could make LHW in my opinion. Guys like Tito, Rampage and Forrest cut down from around 220, and Fedor is listed as weighing 227 (And weighed in at 230 in his last fight). All that means is Fedor has to drop 10 pounds, and then can drop the rest of the weight in the sauna before the match. Against Ramirez, Forrest reported he weighed 225 pounds in the actual fight (eating and drinking after weigh-ins), so Fedor could still fight around 220+. 

This would be an easy feat for a guy like Fedor, who's in incredible shape but does carry around a few extra pounds. You can take a look at his physique and tell he could comfortably drop 10 pounds if he ever needed to. 

Basically, what we would see is a nearly identical Fedor fighting the guys in the LHW division. Can you say ****? He would chew up and spit out every one they put in front of him. The guy is used to fighting dudes who are much taller and/or heavier than him. It would be a vacation for him.


----------



## Split

on the other hand, Fedor has never faced Muay Thai strikers. Usually HW are strong strikers, not great strikers, Mirko being an exception. 

Shogun vs Fedor, id like to see that.


----------



## brownpimp88

Wow, WTF? I thought "cutting down" was what you people suggested for fighters that are losing. Now Fedor too? Wow, you people never cease to amaze me.


----------



## e-thug

Split said:


> on the other hand, Fedor has never faced Muay Thai strikers. Usually HW are strong strikers, not great strikers, Mirko being an exception.
> 
> Shogun vs Fedor, id like to see that.



Yeah Id like to see it too. It would have to be at HW though, there is no way Fedor could get down to the 205 mark.


----------



## Calibretto9

Split said:


> on the other hand, Fedor has never faced Muay Thai strikers. Usually HW are strong strikers, not great strikers, Mirko being an exception.
> 
> Shogun vs Fedor, id like to see that.


LOL, I'm forced to ask, have you ever seen Fedor fight? It's a rhetorical question, but it seems like Muay Thai would play in directly what he tries to do. Fedor throws massive shots that his whole body and shoulders get into, making it terribly hard to clinch with him, but the clinch is what he's going for. He's not going to sit there and try to back out, fire knees back, or block - He's going to brings his hips in and drop the other dude on his head. I see Muay Thai being the WORST standup strategy to fight him with. Getting on one foot versus Fedor = a no no.


----------



## Calibretto9

brownpimp88 said:


> Wow, WTF? I thought "cutting down" was what you people suggested for fighters that are losing. Now Fedor too? Wow, you people never cease to amaze me.


I don't think this one is something the OP actually wants to see, so much as a hypothetical "what if." I usually hate talk about fighters dropping, but in this instance (As I think Fedor could EASILY drop) it's kind of fun to mull over for a bit.


----------



## PrideFan123

Fedor would violently tear threw any LHW fighter.


----------



## JWP

Calibretto9 said:


> LOL, I'm forced to ask, have you ever seen Fedor fight? It's a rhetorical question, but it seems like Muay Thai would play in directly what he tries to do. Fedor throws massive shots that his whole body and shoulders get into, making it terribly hard to clinch with him, but the clinch is what he's going for. He's not going to sit there and try to back out, fire knees back, or block - He's going to brings his hips in and drop the other dude on his head. I see Muay Thai being the WORST standup strategy to fight him with. Getting on one foot versus Fedor = a no no.


100% agree

I think people enjoy trying to find a weakness or a way he could lose. I just dont see it. From what ive seen it would have to be an accident! 

Apart from his strength and all-round skill, for me his mentality may prevent him from ever losing. And LHW... cmon now.


----------



## bbjd7

Fedor at LHW would be very dominate but I would say that I think it wouldn't look much different than what he's doing to the HW it would be about the same. Fedor would have no problem with basically every LHW. I think Wanderlei if he is allowed to throw Elbows would give Fedor trouble just due to cuts but beside that none of the LHW are strong/fast enough to fight with him. Rampage Fedor seems like a fun fight in my head and does Fedor Wanderlei or Fedor Shogun they all seem action packed.


----------



## headxsmasher

let me ask you homosexuals a question that are buying into this. 

Why would fedor go LHW when he can destroy at HW? He hasnt even facking came to the UFC yet no one knows if he ever will. Whens the last time he's fought? oh thats right not for a while. Quit being ****'s and look at facts not fiction


----------



## jdun11

I was watching his fight with Crocop last night on Fox and I was thinking Feodr could def make LHW. In his fight his 2nd fight with Coleman he weighed 224. And he could have easily dropped 20 pounds. But why would he do it?? There is no point really. Unless he wanted to hold numerous belts or if he wanted to fight the current LHW champ.


----------



## Judoka

Fedor couldn't make 205.


----------



## Duffman

hell why not drop 45 lbs and fight anderson or 60 and fight gsp while were on the subject


----------



## Calibretto9

For people claiming he couldn't make 205, you do realize most Light Heavyweight's aren't legitimately 205 pounds, right? For those who have competed in wrestling events or other similar sporting events, fighters will often spend a few days before the fight eating less, drinking less, and spending hours in the sauna to shed water weight. As I mentioned, Forrest Griffin came to UFC 72 weighing 226 pounds, but for about 4 days he ate less, drank less, and hit the sauna. He weighed in, made weight, than drank up to regain his water weight. That night, he was 205, but the very next day he weighed back in at 225. You guys understand the concept of cutting weight, yes?

If almost all the big name LHW's can cut down from 220+ (Rampage, Tito, Liddell, Forrest, Jardine, and pretty much all the "bigger" guys), Fedor would have absolutely no problem. As jdun mentioned, Fedor has weighed in before at 224, is currently billed at 227, and in his last fight was only 230. Not only could he make weight, but making weight would be incredibly easy for a guy his size.


----------



## Judoka

Calibretto9 said:


> For people claiming he couldn't make 205, you do realize most Light Heavyweight's aren't legitimately 205 pounds, right? For those who have competed in wrestling events or other similar sporting events, fighters will often spend a few days before the fight eating less, drinking less, and spending hours in the sauna to shed water weight. As I mentioned, Forrest Griffin came to UFC 72 weighing 226 pounds, but for about 4 days he ate less, drank less, and hit the sauna. He weighed in, made weight, than drank up to regain his water weight. That night, he was 205, but the very next day he weighed back in at 225. You guys understand the concept of cutting weight, yes?
> 
> If almost all the big name LHW's can cut down from 220+ (Rampage, Tito, Liddell, Forrest, Jardine, and pretty much all the "bigger" guys), Fedor would have absolutely no problem. As jdun mentioned, Fedor has weighed in before at 224, is currently billed at 227, and in his last fight was only 230. Not only could he make weight, but making weight would be incredibly easy for a guy his size.


Fedor cuts weight to, you said in his last fight he weighed 230...that is more then Forrest Griffin weighs before he cuts and Fedor had cut weight to be at 230.

I understand LHW's cut weight but so do HW they just don't have as much pressure on them to make weight but they have to be in good shape.

Also, Forrest would not have been back to his normal weight the day of the event...he did after all lose some weight as well as cut weight.


----------



## Calibretto9

Judokas said:


> Fedor cuts weight to, you said in his last fight he weighed 230...that is more then Forrest Griffin weighs before he cuts and Fedor had cut weight to be at 230.
> 
> I understand LHW's cut weight but so do HW they just don't have as much pressure on them to make weight but they have to be in good shape.
> 
> Also, Forrest would not have been back to his normal weight the day of the event...he did after all lose some weight as well as cut weight.


Wrong, wrong, annddddd wrong.

First, Fedor does not cut weight. Heavyweights don't have to cut weight unless somehow, in the UFC, they're weighing in at over 265 pounds. In the division that Fedor fights in, Pride, I don't even think there is a cap to the Heavyweight division. Ever watched a weigh in? Ever wonder why all the divisions strip down to make weight, but the HW's will weigh in in their jeans and shoes? Because it doesn't matter, they don't have to cut weight. There is no way Fedor is going to be pushing the limit. Everyone realizes the guy is only 6 feet tall, right? 

Also, I think you're misunderstanding the term "cutting weight." We're not talking about slimming down to be in shape. We're talking about cheating the system, by being heavier in your fight than the actual limit to have an advantage. You hit the sauna and melt water weight, not to actually get into shape, but to weight less the night of weigh ins. Often times this will go wrong with inexperienced fighters and then they're screwed, much like Travis Lutter, Joe Riggs, or even Thiago Alves (Who was forced to take illegal supplements to shed the weight). 

And to your final point about Forrest's weight, yes, he was indeed 225 pounds in his fight with Ramirez, nearly the same weight as when he entered. Not only did Forrest marvel at this fact in a recent interview, but Joe Rogan discussed it during the fight and Randy was the guy to weigh him in for fun the night of. This is all documented stuff.

*Edit: This post came off a bit more harsh than I intended. No offense was intended and my tone when writing it was just friendly teasing, not trying to be an asshat.


----------



## Judoka

Calibretto9 said:


> Wrong, wrong, annddddd wrong.
> 
> First, Fedor does not cut weight. Heavyweights don't have to cut weight unless somehow, in the UFC, they're weighing in at over 265 pounds. In the division that Fedor fights in, Pride, I don't even think there is a cap to the Heavyweight division. Ever watched a weigh in? Ever wonder why all the divisions strip down to make weight, but the HW's will weigh in in their jeans and shoes? Because it doesn't matter, they don't have to cut weight. There is no way Fedor is going to be pushing the limit. Everyone realizes the guy is only 6 feet tall, right?


I train with heavyweight fighters and they don't like to fight out of shape and they cut weight...not to much but still cut weight to get into shape.




Calibretto9 said:


> Also, I think you're misunderstanding the term "cutting weight." We're not talking about slimming down to be in shape. We're talking about cheating the system, by being heavier in your fight than the actual limit to have an advantage. You hit the sauna and melt water weight, not to actually get into shape, but to weight less the night of weigh ins. Often times this will go wrong with inexperienced fighters and then they're screwed, much like Travis Lutter, Joe Riggs, or even Thiago Alves (Who was forced to take illegal supplements to shed the weight).


I know what cutting weight is, i do it...start reading posts and understand them before you make comments.

If you eat as little as possible which is a weight cutting technique and you even stated that then you will lose weight.





Calibretto9 said:


> And to your final point about Forrest's weight, yes, he was indeed 225 pounds in his fight with Ramirez, nearly the same weight as when he entered. Not only did Forrest marvel at this fact in a recent interview, but Joe Rogan discussed it during the fight and Randy was the guy to weigh him in for fun the night of. This is all documented stuff.


He cuts and losses weight...he will not weight 205 or 226 he will weight somewhere between(approx) 214-219.


----------



## CopperShark

Calibretto9 said:


> Wrong, wrong, annddddd wrong.
> 
> First, Fedor does not cut weight. Heavyweights don't have to cut weight unless somehow, in the UFC, they're weighing in at over 265 pounds. In the division that Fedor fights in, Pride, I don't even think there is a cap to the Heavyweight division. Ever watched a weigh in? Ever wonder why all the divisions strip down to make weight, but the HW's will weigh in in their jeans and shoes? Because it doesn't matter, they don't have to cut weight. There is no way Fedor is going to be pushing the limit. Everyone realizes the guy is only 6 feet tall, right?
> 
> Also, I think you're misunderstanding the term "cutting weight." We're not talking about slimming down to be in shape. We're talking about cheating the system, by being heavier in your fight than the actual limit to have an advantage. You hit the sauna and melt water weight, not to actually get into shape, but to weight less the night of weigh ins. Often times this will go wrong with inexperienced fighters and then they're screwed, much like Travis Lutter, Joe Riggs, or even Thiago Alves (Who was forced to take illegal supplements to shed the weight).
> 
> And to your final point about Forrest's weight, yes, he was indeed 225 pounds in his fight with Ramirez, nearly the same weight as when he entered. Not only did Forrest marvel at this fact in a recent interview, but Joe Rogan discussed it during the fight and Randy was the guy to weigh him in for fun the night of. This is all documented stuff.
> 
> *Edit: This post came off a bit more harsh than I intended. No offense was intended and my tone when writing it was just friendly teasing, not trying to be an asshat.




Haha, these are all true points. Fedor could easssssilllyy come down. I don't see why he wouldn't. Other then the fact that he isn't really fighting right now.


----------



## Calibretto9

Judokas said:


> I train with heavyweight fighters and they don't like to fight out of shape and they cut weight...not to much but still cut weight to get into shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know what cutting weight is, i do it...start reading posts and understand them before you make comments.
> 
> If you eat as little as possible which is a weight cutting technique and you even stated that then you will lose weight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He cuts and losses weight...he will not weight 205 or 226 he will weight somewhere between(approx) 214-219.


I get the distinct feeling, as often is the case between our posts, that you and I are on two entirely different pages. You're not understanding what I'm saying, and trying to understand what the hell you just posted is giving me fits.


----------



## Calibretto9

CopperShark said:


> Haha, these are all true points. Fedor could easssssilllyy come down. I don't see why he wouldn't. Other then the fact that he isn't really fighting right now.


Thank God for you CopperShark. I was thinking that I was writing in another language for a second there. People can agree or disagree with me, that's fine, but I at least want them to understand what I'm saying! =)


----------



## Judoka

Calibretto9 said:


> I get the distinct feeling, as often is the case between our posts, that you and I are on two entirely different pages. You're not understanding what I'm saying, and trying to understand what the hell you just posted is giving me fits.


I train with fighters, including Heavyweights, do you?

I cut weight, do you?

Heavyweights do not want to fight out of shape, they do get into shape which includes getting rid of unnecessary fat on the fighters body.


----------



## Calibretto9

Judokas said:


> I train with fighters, including Heavyweights, do you?
> 
> I cut weight, do you?
> 
> Heavyweights do not want to fight out of shape, they do get into shape which includes getting rid of unnecessary fat on the fighters body.


Err, yes to both of your questions. I was a National Olympic Tae Kwon Doe competitor in the states, and have continued to expand my MMA knowledge since then. I have trained in gyms, spent time with, and been friends with plenty of competitors in multiple sports and multiple weights. Heck, I go to the University of Florida: We're one of the most competitive sports colleges in the states. Everyone here is an athlete of some form. =P

That being said, I could be Fedor himself and I still don't think you'd comprehend what I'm saying. I'm not talking about getting into shape, and I'm not talking about cutting down fat to be healthy for your fight. You're right, everyone, even HW's, have to cut fat off to get into shape for their fights. That's well and good, but that IS NOT what I'm talking about. Once the fighter has gotten into good physical shape, around 220 pounds, you can safely drop 15 pounds in a very small amount of time. 

What I'm saying is that Fedor, in fighting shape, could still lose 4-8 pounds, making him 220 pounds. Then, like many LHW fighters, he could shed water weight to make the 206 pound weigh in. Hopefully you're seeing where I'm going with this now.


----------



## Judoka

Calibretto9 said:


> Err, yes to both of your questions. I was a National Olympic Tae Kwon Doe competitor in the states, and have continued to expand my MMA knowledge since then. I have trained in gyms, spent time with, and been friends with plenty of competitors in multiple sports and multiple weights. Heck, I go to the University of Florida: We're one of the most competitive sports colleges in the states. Everyone here is an athlete of some form. =P
> 
> That being said, I could be Fedor himself and I still don't think you'd comprehend what I'm saying. I'm not talking about getting into shape, and I'm not talking about cutting down fat to be healthy for your fight. You're right, everyone, even HW's, have to cut fat off to get into shape for their fights. That's well and good, but that IS NOT what I'm talking about. Once the fighter has gotten into good physical shape, around 220 pounds, you can safely drop 15 pounds in a very small amount of time.
> 
> What I'm saying is that Fedor, in fighting shape, could still lose 4-8 pounds, making him 220 pounds. Then, like many LHW fighters, he could shed water weight to make the 206 pound weigh in. Hopefully you're seeing where I'm going with this now.


I still don't think Fedor could make it.

I was talking to Elvis Sinosic who is a LHW and has weighed in at 202 before and i asked him if he could cut to Middleweight and he said "No, i think it would near kill me" which would be the same with Fedor.

But lets stop the argument, we will agree to disagree.


----------



## Calibretto9

Judokas said:


> I still don't think Fedor could make it.
> 
> I was talking to Elvis Sinosic who is a LHW and has weighed in at 202 before and i asked him if he could cut to Middleweight and he said "No, i think it would near kill me" which would be the same with Fedor.
> 
> But lets stop the argument, we will agree to disagree.


Hey man, I really respect that kind of post. I have nothing but respect for a guy who will say, "Hey, this is just what I _think_, but you might think differently. No biggie." I agree, and enjoyed this conversation. +Rep.


----------



## wukkadb

Fedor could definitely make 205, why are people even questoning that? Fedor has no diet, and has no worries about his weight right now. 2 months of focusing on diet and Fedor could be walking around at 215 and lower body fat. 












Judokas said:


> I train with fighters, including Heavyweights, do you?
> 
> I cut weight, do you?
> 
> Heavyweights do not want to fight out of shape, they do get into shape which includes getting rid of unnecessary fat on the fighters body.


Why would cutting weight get you in better shape? The weight your walk around at is definitely the best and most comfortable shape to fight in.


----------



## Robopencil

I get what you're saying. Heavyweight fighters stay in shape, period. But they don't need to cut water weight to actually make weight and be allowed to fight. Other fighters are in shape as well, but because they are in different divisions with stricter weight limits, they need to cut water weight to actually make weight. I'm sure some fighters couldn't physically remain in their division if they had actually walk around at their fighting weight. It's something they do to get an extra leg up on the competition. And what you're saying is that Fedor could lose a few pounds, and then cut water weight before the fight, then re-hydrate and re-feed himself. Gotcha :thumb02: .

Now could he do it? I think so, though different people have different abilities when it comes to how easy it is to cut weight.

What would happen if he fought at LHW? Ugh, I shudder to think. Paramedics would be on hand with mass quantities of duct-tape. :confused05:


----------



## Judoka

Robopencil said:


> I get what you're saying. Heavyweight fighters stay in shape, period. But they don't need to cut water weight to actually make weight and be allowed to fight. Other fighters are in shape as well, but because they are in different divisions with stricter weight limits, they need to cut water weight to actually make weight. I'm sure some fighters couldn't physically remain in their division if they had actually walk around at their fighting weight. It's something they do to get an extra leg up on the competition. And what you're saying is that Fedor could lose a few pounds, and then cut water weight before the fight, then re-hydrate and re-feed himself. Gotcha :thumb02: .
> 
> Now could he do it? I think so, though different people have different abilities when it comes to how easy it is to cut weight.
> 
> What would happen if he fought at LHW? Ugh, I shudder to think. Paramedics would be on hand with mass quantities of duct-tape. :confused05:


Yeah, by cutting i meant losing. I am very tired at the moment as i have been awake working for a long while.

Although i still don't think Fedor could make it.


----------



## cdtcpl

While I won't doubt Fedor's ability, on of the things that helps him stand out so much is how shallow the HW division is. It has gotten a little deeper as of late, but if he dropped to LHW there are so many other fighters that he could lose the God-like status we have all assigned him. Do I think he would dominate? Yes. But somehow I think his status would be lessened in all the talks about the other LHW. I mean everytime we talk about HW's somehow he gets mentioned. When we talk about LHW we don't always mention Liddell or Rampage.


----------



## Robopencil

Judokas said:


> Yeah, by cutting i meant losing. I am very tired at the moment as i have been awake working for a long while.
> 
> Although i still don't think Fedor could make it.


No worries, I have no personal experience with cutting weight, so I can't really say what it's like. It looks like some people have it easier than others though.


----------



## sunley213

Do you not think that cutting down to 205 would take away a bit from Fedor's game? (Why fix what is not broke)

I'm of a similar age and find losing weight harder than it use to be.


----------



## LivingDedMan

Fedor could lose some fat and be able to make 205 if he wanted to, but why would he want to? 

He's way more comfortable at heavy and he might not be better at LHW. Maybe he'd gas like Tito (who cuts a lot of weight) if he had to cut weight.


----------



## GMW

cdtcpl said:


> While I won't doubt Fedor's ability, on of the things that helps him stand out so much is how shallow the HW division is. It has gotten a little deeper as of late, but if he dropped to LHW there are so many other fighters that he could lose the God-like status we have all assigned him. Do I think he would dominate? Yes. But somehow I think his status would be lessened in all the talks about the other LHW. I mean everytime we talk about HW's somehow he gets mentioned. When we talk about LHW we don't always mention Liddell or Rampage.


Wasn't Pride heavy weight division the best division in... everything?


----------



## NikosCC

When i look at fedor i see and this is just My Opinion.. lol 

He seems like and this is just his apperence..Hes like The Irish Drunk who hang around the bars from opening to close he just seems like a Drunk who likes to fight hahaha


Ok down to business as him going to LHW i believe he would would do very well at LHW but i believe Shogun would give him some really extreme Compitition.. Rampage might even be able to Slam him into a grave..These are just some Ideas of what could happen but i think Fedor would Be champion for a while..


----------



## bbjd7

GMW said:


> Wasn't Pride heavy weight division the best division in... everything?


yes but the new LHW divison might be better than the old Pride HW divison with Shogun, Wanderlei, Rampage, Liddell, Rashad, Tito, and then there are still all of the Pride guys who are FA like Arona, Lil Nog, and Sokky

I think the speed of some of the guys Shogun and Wanderlei and Sokky and the Strength of others like Rampage who could possibly go Randleman on him would give Fedor trouble he would still win but it wouldn't be a walk in the park at 205


----------



## Davisty69

I don't see any reason why he would ever do it, but I'm sure he would do well. He's so dominant against guys that are the same size as him, if not bigger, he would destroy guys that are smaller than him.


----------



## xeberus

*Shogun Vs Chuck Liddell*

who wins? I feel this is a very bad match-up for shogun if chuck can show up ready to fight. 

so who do you think would win and why?


----------



## AtomDanger

xeberus said:


> who wins? I feel this is a very bad match-up for shogun if chuck can show up ready to fight.
> 
> so who do you think would win and why?



What makes you feel this is a bad match up for Shogun?

Is it the fact that his striking is more precise and twice as good as chucks? Or is it the fact that he has beaten the man chuck cannot seam to beat?
maybe its the fact that he is going to be the future LHW champion


----------



## xeberus

AtomDanger said:


> What makes you feel this is a bad match up for Shogun?
> 
> Is it the fact that his striking is more precise and twice as good as chucks? Or is it the fact that he has beaten the man chuck cannot seam to beat?
> maybe its the fact that he is going to be the future LHW champion


I dont think shogun could take him down. If rua's striking was twice as good as chucks no one in mma could stand with him, which is completely ridiculous. 

so what hes beaten rampage? chuck beat babalu and guess who beat shogun? makes no difference at all, this isnt some exact numbers game, this is fighting, welcome to MMA.


----------



## AtomDanger

xeberus said:


> I dont think shogun could take him down. If rua's striking was twice as good as chucks no one in mma could stand with him, which is completely ridiculous.
> 
> so what hes beaten rampage? chuck beat babalu and guess who beat shogun? makes no difference at all, this isnt some exact numbers game, this is fighting, welcome to MMA.



Ok... for the idiots I will break it down.
(I am an mma fighter, so don't give me the welcome to mma)

Babalu beat shogun when?
in 2003 in his 5th fight ever.

Shogun beat Rampage when?
in 2005 AFTER Rampage had beaten Chuck.

See the relevance?
Oh, and are you kidding? 100 fighters in mma could stand with chuck no problem. He gets spoon fed ground fighters.
LOOK AT HIS RECORD.
So shoguns striking being twice and good doesn't mean no one in mma could stand with him.

Rampage can stand with chuck, obviously, Wandy can and I hope will stand with chuck and win, Henderson can and will stand with chuck and win, Shogun can and will stand with Chuck and win.
Chuck is an overrated sloppy stand up fighter with SOLID hands and a padded record


----------



## MoopsiePuffs

chuck by sub??  just kidding, Shogun by (T)KO


----------



## Robopencil

I see Shogun by KO or TKO as the likeliest end to this fight. There's a small chance of a sub by Shogun if it goes to the ground but even then I could see a gnp win. And you never truly know, but I don't think it would go to decision.


----------



## leew11k

i really like liddell but shogun is a bad matchup for chuck, to many fighters in ufc are put off there own game cause chuck is in there head,but fighters like shogun wont give chuck a second to breath and would be too relentess and too much for him.


----------



## SuzukS

I'll predict either a Shogun win by Submission or (T)KO or a Liddell win by (lucky) KO.


----------



## CopperShark

Chuck by big KO. Shogun is too agressive, and Chuck's counter punches would clip the Chute Boxer. I have a feeling Shogun will fall apart in the UFC, due to differant rules, and everyone will be gunning for him. I have no doubt that he could beat anyone, on any given day in Pride. But the UFC is a whole new world. :dunno:


----------



## TheNegation

CopperShark said:


> Chuck by big KO. Shogun is too agressive, and Chuck's counter punches would clip the Chute Boxer. I have a feeling Shogun will fall apart in the UFC, due to differant rules, and everyone will be gunning for him. I have no doubt that he could beat anyone, on any given day in Pride. But the UFC is a whole new world. :dunno:


I can't help but laugh at people like you.

Shogun by fatality.


----------



## Ramzee

Shogun by Tko EASILY

Also ^ Shogun by fatality? repped for that lmao...


----------



## Davisty69

I know it's blasphemy, but I picture Chuck winning this. I see Shogun coming in aggressive and Chuck catching him with a solid overhand counterpunch. Just my humble opinion though...


----------



## J Stokes

Love shogun...but chuck would win


----------



## J Stokes

TheNegation said:


> I can't help but laugh at people like you.
> 
> Shogun by fatality.


MORTAL COMBAT!!!! *plays MK theme* 

:laugh:


----------



## southpaw447

I don't think any fighter is a bad match-up for Shogun. Shogun is a fighter who has an answer for everything. If he's being out struck he will take it to the ground and vice versa. Shogun can also take pretty good punch, I remeber Noguiera knocked him down moentarily but he got right back up so clearly he has a lot of heart.

I don't think Chuck has matched-up with any true wolrd class strikers for a long time. Even though he was Knocked out by Rampage, he is primarily a wrestler. I think that Shogun would get a hold of his neck and land some hard knees. I think also even though Chuck has great Takedown Defense, I feel that Shogun could take him down pretty easily and likely keep him there and submit him.

I also have noticed that Chuck appears to tire pretty quickly but that's just what I've seen. I think after 3 rounds of throwing power punches and trying to put Shogun away he will tire and Shogun would finish him. Shogun has an Incredible Gastank and thats a lot for any fighter to handle.


----------



## jesse danger

shogun vs chuck why are we talking about this shogun has 10X
more stand up then chuck and shogun would beat him as bad as he did rampage.

We should be taking about henderson vs shogun


----------



## jdun11

Im not sure how Shogun would win this fight but Im almost positive he wins this fight. Too well rounded, too athletic, too much cardio, too much SHOGUN!!


----------



## Shogun_Is_Champ

For those that think that Shogun's standup is loopy and not precise, check out his fight against Erik Wanderlei on dailymotion.com. This was when he was just starting to fight MMA also. You can see how his strikes were really precise.


----------



## Machiavelli_08

As much as I would enjoy seeing Shogun win it by a KO for some reason I think Chuck will be too prepared...but I think has a point to prove so he'll come in looking for a KO get to aggressive and then get taken down...when that happens he'll run out of steam, get sloppy and get submitted...


----------



## Ramzee

But still I think Chuck wouldn't stand a real chance. Shogun took apart rampage and even rampage admits it was his hardest fight. He also thinks forrest is in a lot of trouble as well hehe, heard it on an mp3 interview. 

And how many times did jackson destroy chuck? 2 times

Now I know this isn't a very strong arguemnt considering the strengths of each fighter is different and depending on who they are put up againt different match ups can shock some, but I overall think rampage is a better fighter then chuck, but shogun is a better fighter then rampage. 

Shogun has faced the best of the best, you must also take this into consideration aswell

Just my 2 cents :thumbsup:


----------



## gwabblesore

AtomDanger said:


> What makes you feel this is a bad match up for Shogun?
> 
> *Is it the fact that his striking is more precise and twice as good as chucks? *Or is it the fact that he has beaten the man chuck cannot seam to beat?
> maybe its the fact that he is going to be the future LHW champion


Whoa there..if Shogun stands and tries to strike with Chuck he WILL get KOd, I promise.


----------



## Ramzee

gwabblesore said:


> Whoa there..if Shogun stands and tries to strike with Chuck he WILL get KOd, I promise.


Dont promise nonsense like that, I for one agree with him...promise pshh


----------



## southpaw447

gwabblesore said:


> Whoa there..if Shogun stands and tries to strike with Chuck he WILL get KOd, I promise.


I wouldn't go so far as to say that. Shogun may not be a power puncher or that technical but it is very unpredictable and if Shogun gets that clinch its all over for chuck


----------



## gwabblesore

Ramzee said:


> Dont promise nonsense like that, I for one agree with him...promise pshh


That Shogun's striking is stronger than Chuck's? You honestly think if these guys stand and strike through the fight that Shogun will win?!?! :confused03:


----------



## gwabblesore

southpaw447 said:


> I wouldn't go so far as to say that. Shogun may not be a power puncher or that technical but it is very unpredictable and if Shogun gets that clinch its all over for chuck


That's why I said "stands and strikes", I didn't mean to include the clinch when i said that.

edit: and all this in response to the dude saying Shogun's striking is way better than Chuck's. Again I dont consider the clinch "striking".


----------



## Ramzee

gwabblesore said:


> That Shogun's striking is stronger than Chuck's? You honestly think if these guys stand and strike through the fight that Shogun will win?!?! :confused03:


ummm yes? :confused03:


----------



## Shogun_Is_Champ

gwabblesore said:


> That's why I said "stands and strikes", I didn't mean to include the clinch when i said that.
> 
> edit: and all this in response to the dude saying Shogun's striking is way better than Chuck's. Again I dont consider the clinch "striking".


Rampage stood with Chuck and KO'd him, and Rampage isn't even a striker.


----------



## sk double i

Chuck likes distance in his fights. The reason why he lost to Rampage was bc Page can eat a few punches or two (even the ever so powerful chuck lidell punches), close the distance and counter. The reason why Rampage was so unsuccesful against chute boxe fighters was bc when he tried to close the distance, it left him open to a clinch and eventually, knees that can make any man's chest cave in.

I think Shogun has the edge both in the stand up and the ground agains Lidell. Chuck does not face aggressive strikers. Shogun is an animal. Dont get me wrong, he could easily get caught with his wild loopy punches, but once he closed the distance, I can see him getting submitting chuck. The rounds are too short for chuck to get tired, he recovers well. Either shogun submits, or he gets knocked out.


----------



## Stapler

Shogun fanboys are the reason I could never be a fan of his no matter how good he seems to be. Just look at these posts..

If you think Shogun has better hands than Chuck you are sadly mistakened. if he trades punch for punch it will be a short night for Shogun whether you can see passed your blind biasm or not.

Now I know you are gonna say "coming from a guy who has his favorite fighter listed as Chuck.. Contradiction anyone?"

Not at all, I'm just looking at this logically. Also, if you think Shoguns gonna take Chuck down with ease thats just ridiculous, guys with better takedowns have trouble taking Chuck down, and I know Shogun usually gets his takedowns off the clinch but so does Couture and he had trouble taking Chuck down, now if you think Shogun has better takedowns than Randy im just gonna laugh right here.

Shogun MAY win but he wont dominate Chuck like you all seem to think if he does happen to win. I'm putting my biased opinions away and I'm gonna say I wouldn't be surprised if either fighter won, they both have the tools to afterall.

Now I'm preparing for negative reps.. :thumb02:


----------



## Robopencil

I'm not comparing just their hands. But I think Shogun is a better striker. Punches, kicks, great clinch, knees, elbows I'm venturing to guess.


----------



## Shogun_Is_Champ

Nick_V03 said:


> Shogun fanboys are the reason I could never be a fan of his no matter how good he seems to be. Just look at these posts..
> 
> If you think Shogun has better hands than Chuck you are sadly mistakened. if he trades punch for punch it will be a short night for Shogun whether you can see passed your blind biasm or not.
> 
> Now I know you are gonna say "coming from a guy who has his favorite fighter listed as Chuck.. Contradiction anyone?"
> 
> Not at all, I'm just looking at this logically. Also, if you think Shoguns gonna take Chuck down with ease thats just ridiculous, guys with better takedowns have trouble taking Chuck down, and I know Shogun usually gets his takedowns off the clinch but so does Couture and he had trouble taking Chuck down, now if you think Shogun has better takedowns than Randy im just gonna laugh right here.
> 
> Shogun MAY win but he wont dominate Chuck like you all seem to think if he does happen to win. I'm putting my biased opinions away and I'm gonna say I wouldn't be surprised if either fighter won, they both have the tools to afterall.
> 
> Now I'm preparing for negative reps.. :thumb02:


Rampage outstruck Chuck. And Rampage isn't a striker. I know MMA math doesn't work but Shogun DECIMATED Rampage.


----------



## Stapler

How did Rampage outstrike Chuck? In their second fight he just caught him.. Chuck made the mistake of throwing a body punch from the outside and Rampage countered. Shoguns very aggressive. He probably won't be looking to counter ..and he only decimated Rampage standing because he injured him in the clinch, which i obviously agree that Shogun has a better clinch game than Chuck. Chuck obviously has a better clinch defense than Rampage though.

and Unholy..I know theres more to striking than hands. I liked how you labeled me as an "Iceman fan" though. That supposed to mean we lack your MMA knowledge? Just curious...


----------



## Shogun_Is_Champ

He caught Chuck? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what Chuck always does?


----------



## Emericanaddict

Personally I feel that if they stand and trae Chuck is gonna KO or TKO Shogun. People keep saying that if things dont go his way in the stand up that he will jsut take Chuck down. the problem si that when your against Chuck and "things dont go your way" You dont usualy have time to change your mind and go for the take down. just ask Randy and Tito. Even if Shogun does try to take him down Chuck will sprawll and stuff it as usual. I thinki Shogun could definitly submit him IF he got him down but as has been said people with better ground games have tried and it doesnt usualy happen (with acception to Jeremy Horn) 

Shogun will be most effective in the clinch but the probelm i see there is that Chuck has wrestling and if he gets caught in the clich i see him grabbibg a single leg and putting Shogun on his back. Ive seen him do it before and I believe with his wrestling skills that he could do it again even if it is highly unlikely. The only thing im worried about is if Chuck gasses because that seems to be his big weakness. Its a tough call but I am slightly leaning towards Chuck jsut ebcause he seems to have a Counter to what Shogun can dish out but this is MMA and im not gonna declare Chuck as winner already. Just that im favoring him in this fight.


----------



## Stapler

Yes, consistently though. After a while can you really say he just "caught" his opponent? Chuck made an idiotic move and threw a body punch from the outside leaving his chin exposed and Rampage countered with a clean shot to the chin. but ill go as far to agree Rampage outstruck him THAT FIGHT. but it wasnt like he completely dominated the standup.

Chuck wouldn't make that mistake again I'm sure. At least I'd hope..he needs to start respecting his opponents standup. =/


----------



## Emericanaddict

Shogun_is_Champ said:


> He caught Chuck? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what Chuck always does?


Your wrong Chuck doesnt always throw body shots. He threw three in a row against Tito once but lets face it he knew he was disgracing Tito and didnt have much to worry about it. It was a huge mistake with Rampage though and was Chucks own fault. 

But you are wrong because his Coach and trainer constantly tells him not to throw body shots cause they leave you open. Chuck thought he had rampage off balance and got caught on the way back up from the body strike. Im not taking anything away from Rampage cause it was a nice catch but im jsut saying that you are wrong there. no offense and im not trying to be an ass.


----------



## pt447

i'd have voted Shogun by KO if able, but unless chuck landed on e of his patented lucky lobbs over his shoulder clean on shogun's chin, shogun would win by sub or KO. a decision would be hard to imagine in that fight. both guys love to win, not too cautious in terms of "boring".


----------



## pt447

AtomDanger said:


> Ok... for the idiots I will break it down.
> (I am an mma fighter, so don't give me the welcome to mma)
> 
> Babalu beat shogun when?
> in 2003 in his 5th fight ever.
> 
> Shogun beat Rampage when?
> in 2005 AFTER Rampage had beaten Chuck.
> 
> See the relevance?
> Oh, and are you kidding? 100 fighters in mma could stand with chuck no problem. He gets spoon fed ground fighters.
> LOOK AT HIS RECORD.
> So shoguns striking being twice and good doesn't mean no one in mma could stand with him.
> 
> Rampage can stand with chuck, obviously, Wandy can and I hope will stand with chuck and win, Henderson can and will stand with chuck and win, Shogun can and will stand with Chuck and win.
> Chuck is an overrated sloppy stand up fighter with SOLID hands and a padded record


that was one of the best "shut down" responses i've ever seen. totally used his argument against him. lol!!! rep


----------



## gwabblesore

pt447 said:


> i'd have voted Shogun by KO if able, but unless chuck landed on e of his patented lucky lobbs over his shoulder clean on shogun's chin, shogun would win by sub or KO. a decision would be hard to imagine in that fight. both guys love to win, not too cautious in terms of "boring".


Yeah Chuck's landed quite a few of those patented lucky lobs huh? I think he straps a four leaf clover to his ass before every fight, which is just as bad as steroids if you ask me. Totally unfair.


----------



## pt447

gwabblesore said:


> Yeah Chuck's landed quite a few of those patented lucky lobs huh? I think he straps a four leaf clover to his ass before every fight, which is just as bad as steroids if you ask me. Totally unfair.


i'm actually not sure how to take this... lol:confused05:


----------



## Stapler

He has a point though, its not like Chuck stands like Hermes Franca and throws his bombs with his eyes closed. He's very accurate, and accuracy along with power is always a good combination. hardly a lucky lob. =/


----------



## B-Real

Chuck by Knock out, baby! Well, I certainly hope so.


----------



## bbjd7

My fellow Shogun fans stop saying Shogun has better punches than Chuck because it isn't true. Now will Shogun beat Chuck IMO yes but mostly because he'll wear Chuck down with movement and clinch and if Chuck takes Shogun down then Shogun has a good shot at tapping Chuck He almost put Arona in a omoplata when Arona was in his guard and Arona is better on the ground then Chuck.

Chuck can KO Shogun but It'll take a lot and thats where I think Chuck will have a problem since even if he rocks Shogun. Shogun seems to recover in 5 secs and if Chuck rushes him he might get stuck on the ground with Shogun.

Chuck's advantage in this fight is also the reason I don't think he'll win. Chuck has great stand up which is better than Shogun but I don't think he can KO Shogun and unless Chuck tries to decison Shogun which i don't think would work since Shogun would wear him down and clinch I don't think Chuck can win. Even if he rocks Shogun I don't think he can finish him.


----------



## Machiavelli_08

Chuck is a talented and skilled fighter but I just think he will run out of steam against Shogun...he will try to go all out with a point to prove and he will get caught, taken down and then TKO'd or in my opinion submitted...I do think Chuck in stand-up only competition has a good chance of winning but Shogun is a smart fighter and will take him down...eventually...and then it'll be over.


----------



## pt447

Nick_V03 said:


> He has a point though, its not like Chuck stands like Hermes Franca and throws his bombs with his eyes closed. He's very accurate, and accuracy along with power is always a good combination. hardly a lucky lob. =/


i meant that only those particular lobbing punches are lucky. i wasn't implying that all of chuck's striking is luck. but he sure isn't a chute box striker.


----------



## chilo

AtomDanger said:


> Ok... for the idiots I will break it down.
> (I am an mma fighter, so don't give me the welcome to mma)
> 
> Babalu beat shogun when?
> in 2003 in his 5th fight ever.
> 
> Shogun beat Rampage when?
> in 2005 AFTER Rampage had beaten Chuck.
> 
> See the relevance?
> Oh, and are you kidding? 100 fighters in mma could stand with chuck no problem. He gets spoon fed ground fighters.
> LOOK AT HIS RECORD.
> So shoguns striking being twice and good doesn't mean no one in mma could stand with him.
> 
> Rampage can stand with chuck, obviously, Wandy can and I hope will stand with chuck and win, Henderson can and will stand with chuck and win, Shogun can and will stand with Chuck and win.
> Chuck is an overrated sloppy stand up fighter with SOLID hands and a padded record


/golfClap 
thank you for that:thumb02:


----------



## TheNegation

I just can't wait until they actually fight, if they do. I'm gonna come back to this thread and be like ''YEAH BITCH! IN YOUR ******* FACE!!!!!''

Seriously though. Shogun would not only win this fight, he would embarass Chuck badly, like he did to Rampage. Chuck will lose, fast and painfully. I'd be willing to bet my life on it.


----------



## sk double i

TheNegation said:


> I just can't wait until they actually fight, if they do. I'm gonna come back to this thread and be like ''YEAH BITCH! IN YOUR ******* FACE!!!!!''
> 
> Seriously though. Shogun would not only win this fight, he would embarass Chuck badly, like he did to Rampage. Chuck will lose, fast and painfully. I'd be willing to bet my life on it.



pfffff you are one confident person.

:thumbsup:


----------



## TheNegation

sk double i said:


> pfffff you are one confident person.
> 
> :thumbsup:


I have watched almost every single fight of each fighter. Chuck is not in the same league as Shogun at all.


----------



## esv

I think shogun would win


----------



## hollando

AtomDanger said:


> What makes you feel this is a bad match up for Shogun?
> 
> Is it the fact that his striking is more precise and twice as good as chucks? Or is it the fact that he has beaten the man chuck cannot seam to beat?
> maybe its the fact that he is going to be the future LHW champion


yah but by that definition

shogun loss to babalu

but chuck fucked up babalu


----------



## TheNegation

hollando said:


> yah but by that definition
> 
> shogun loss to babalu
> 
> but chuck fucked up babalu


Chuck and babalu fought recently. So did Shogun and Rampage.
The Babalu and shogun fight was years ago, Shogun was young and inexperienced.


----------



## Stapler

I think its funny when people do that. The fighter they were arguing would win does win and they go crazy like "I TOLD YOU SO! OH YEAH!" Bad sportsmanship? :confused03:

I believe Chuck will win though, and then I will just simply say if he does..maybe Chuck isn't the overrated fighter you Shogun fanboys think? :thumb02:


----------



## hollando

TheNegation said:


> Chuck and babalu fought recently. So did Shogun and Rampage.
> The Babalu and shogun fight was years ago, Shogun was young and inexperienced.


come on now lets not make excuses here

a loss is a loss

not mention the shogun rampage fight was a while ago....as well like over two years i think....and the babalu fight was what almost 4 years

my point was you cant let fight records be the determining factor in deciding the outcome of a fight you know wut i mean homie


----------



## NikosCC

Shogun is an awesome fighter but i think that chuck would catch him and end the fight..Chuck didnt look to good against Rampage because thats his Kryptonite..But chuck is still in great shape and he will KILL Jardine and look for a title shot..

Lots of fighters have that one fighter they just can't seem to beat..

Chuck-Rampage
Matt Hughes-Dennis Hallman
Frank Trigg-Anyone with a RNC
Rich Franklin will be anderson Silva
Herring-Big Nog
Rampage-Wandy
tito- Chuck


----------



## Freiermuth

AtomDanger said:


> Ok... for the idiots I will break it down.
> (I am an mma fighter, so don't give me the welcome to mma)
> 
> Babalu beat shogun when?
> in 2003 in his 5th fight ever.
> 
> Shogun beat Rampage when?
> in 2005 AFTER Rampage had beaten Chuck.
> 
> See the relevance?
> Oh, and are you kidding? 100 fighters in mma could stand with chuck no problem. He gets spoon fed ground fighters.
> LOOK AT HIS RECORD.
> So shoguns striking being twice and good doesn't mean no one in mma could stand with him.
> 
> Rampage can stand with chuck, obviously, Wandy can and I hope will stand with chuck and win, Henderson can and will stand with chuck and win, Shogun can and will stand with Chuck and win.
> Chuck is an overrated sloppy stand up fighter with SOLID hands and a padded record


They have also both fought and beat Overeem who is a striker , but guess who got a TKO while keeping it on their feet?

Anyway, Shogun would probably end up taking this fight.


----------



## TheNegation

hollando said:


> come on now lets not make excuses here
> 
> a loss is a loss
> 
> not mention the shogun rampage fight was a while ago....as well like over two years i think....and the babalu fight was what almost 4 years
> 
> my point was you cant let fight records be the determining factor in deciding the outcome of a fight you know wut i mean homie


I am not making excuses. You can't argue that 4 years isn't a long time when you are like 26 years old. Babalu was the first great fighter Shogun ever fought, arguably it was the peak of Babalus career at that time.

My point is simply that Shogun beating the living shit out of Ramapage is a lot more more relevant that Chucks wins on a man who beat Shogun when he did. I am not leting it be the determining factor.


----------



## xeberus

*All Time Fantasy Match-ups*

Who would you like to have seen fight when both fighters were in their Prime? Take your pick and If its not listed post who and why, and who you think would have won.


----------



## Chonies69

I picked fedor vs. couture, but i would also like to see silva vs. chuck. I think chuck would ko silva in second round.


----------



## xeberus

Chonies69 said:


> I picked fedor vs. couture, but i would also like to see silva vs. chuck. I think chuck would ko silva in second round.


Nice. I totally forgot about that. I would also love to see this fight and I think it will likely happen within the next year because Silva is now in the UFC.


----------



## Judoka

Mirko Cro Cop Vs Andrei Arlovski(old style)
Chuck Liddell Vs Wandy

Those are actually some pretty good match ups but Ken Vs Tito again? id kill myself if that happened.

Also i think Fedor with a fight against Nogueira, Cro Cop or Barnett would be better then a match against Couture.


----------



## xeberus

Judokas said:


> Mirko Cro Cop Vs Andrei Arlovski(old style)
> Chuck Liddell Vs Wandy
> 
> Those are actually some pretty good match ups but Ken Vs Tito again? id kill myself if that happened.
> 
> Also i think Fedor with a fight against Nogueira, Cro Cop or Barnett would be better then a match against Couture.


lol i didnt mean the old man ken i meant ken in his prime vs tito now.


----------



## Judoka

xeberus said:


> lol i didnt mean the old man ken i meant ken in his prime vs tito now.


I was gonna say...Ken would come in and try to hit Tito with his walking stick and then Tito would grab the fence and the fight would be called a draw.


----------



## looney liam

*vanderlei silva vs chuck liddell *- both have great standups and i think this fight would be a war. either man could win, but i think chucks only chance is if he knocks vanderlei out, and thats a pretty good chance!

*tim sylvia vs fedor* - i didnt pick this because i think tim's one of the best, i just wanna see tim's supreme cockyness get taken away when fedor breaks his arm.

*cro cop vs andrei arlovski* - ok, its not a dream fight per say, but i really want to see this happen. both guys are strong and have good standups. i think cro cop will take this one, but it will be a great fight.

*anderson silva vs dan henderson* - henderson is the pride middleweight champion, so this could make for a great matchup. middleweight is henderson's natural weight class as well, i think most light heavyweight's will be too big for him. this would be a great fight and could go either way, i could actually see dan taking this fight.


----------



## Boxing>MMA

Brock Lesnar vs. Fedor

Frank Shamrock or Murilo Rua or Dan Henderson vs. Paulo Filho or Murilo Rua or Dan Henderson 

Maybe to prove everybody that Paulo Filho and everybody fighting above would beat Anderson Silva; Filho vs. Silva; Shamrock vs. Silva; Murilo Rua vs. Anderson Silva
*We all know Henderson is better than Silva*

Gabe Ruediger vs. BJ Penn or Nate Diaz 

Sokoudjou vs. Rampage Jackson

Antonio Rogerio Nogueira vs. Rampage Jackson for a fourth time.

Age 35 World Champ Boxer with experience in BJJ and MMA fighting vs. A world champion in MMA

Prime Royce Gracie vs. all the top 7 WWs tournament style


Filho would have to lose weight.
Paulo Filho vs. Josh Koscheck or Matt Hughes or GSP or Matt Serra or BJ Penn


----------



## M_D

I picked Shamrock vs Tito it would have been nice to of seen shamrock beat the crap ou t of tito in his prime. 

Penn vs Gracie would be great to see that chess match


----------



## NaChOmAmA

Here are song fights I wish I could see

Ken Shamrock vs Royce Gracie - today
Wandy vs Chuck
Soko vs Shogun
Fedor vs Barnett
GSP vs Penn 2
GSP vs Hughes 3
GSP vs Serra 2
Hughes vs Koscheck (rasslin)
Anderson silva vs Matt Linland
Ortiz vs Wandy 2
Ortiz vs Rampage
Ortiz vs Sobral


----------



## sirdilznik

[x] Saku vs. Rickson - self-explanatory


----------



## Craig88

Wandy and Chuck, we've all waited for thais fight for yrs so i would hate to never see it, I wouldn't like Randy vs Fedor i raelly like them both and would feel so shitty watching randy get his ass whooped


----------



## LiverShot

sirdilznik said:


> [x] Saku vs. Rickson - self-explanatory


Yep, that's been on my mind for a while.

Also, Bas Rutten vs. Rickson Gracie, because Bas challenged him to a fight a number of times and I would have loved to see what would have happened.


----------



## Cochise

Wandy vs Chuck, for the reason Evil Ash said in another thread. Also, because it would be a good stand up fight.


----------



## Godzuki

I'd like to see Bas v Randy. I think it would have been a great fight between two legends.


----------



## JT42

A Prime Don Frye vs. Old Style Arlovski

Two of my favs with the winner fighting CroCop!


----------



## Terry77

sirdilznik said:


> [x] Saku vs. Rickson - self-explanatory


True story. 

I don't know how big the fight would be, but BJ Penn vs Norifumi Yamamoto has always been a dream fight of mine. I have too many Frank Shamrock (after Tito fight) dreams that will never happen. I mean Frank/Saku, Frank/Wanderlei, Frank/Henderson, list goes on.


----------



## Davisty69

What's funny is you have Ken v. Tito. Tito was out of his prime and he manhandled Ken. I think tito in his prime, no matter what shape Ken was in, would demolish Ken. 

Also, Matt Hughes was in his prime when he beat the roids out of Royce 

I think Penn in his prime would demolish Royce as well. In fact, I think any modern MMA fighter in their prime would demolish Royce because he was simply too one dimensional. Not to bag on him, just true of the times. 

Also, I don't think we would be too far off to say that if Randy and Fedor were to fight tomorrow, they would both relatively be in their primes, Randy being the only Iffy one. He has been a monster for a while now, but has shown diffinitively that he has not slowed down. You could also argue that by improving his game strategy wise, he's a better fighter now than he used to be when he was simply a naturally gifted fighter.


----------



## Davisty69

Terry77 said:


> True story.
> 
> I don't know how big the fight would be, but BJ Penn vs Norifumi Yamamoto has always been a dream fight of mine. I have too many Frank Shamrock (after Tito fight) dreams that will never happen. I mean Frank/Saku, Frank/Wanderlei, Frank/Henderson, list goes on.


So you pretty much want to see frank fight everyone in their primes and see who he could have beaten..... :thumb02: I'm down for that.:thumb02:


----------



## Terry77

Frank retiring was so weird. I mean he climbed the top of the mountain, and was at his peek. Sakuraba was at the same point until the Wanderlei fights. There were just so many fights out there for Frank Shamrock. It just pains me to see him turn a complete 180 and picking opponents for money.


----------



## Judoka

I thought about some and here they are,

Andrei Arlovski Vs Mirko Cro Cop
Chuck Liddell Vs Wanderlei Silva
Anderson Silva Vs Dan Henderson
Georges St Pierre Vs Hayato Sakurai
Keith Jardine Vs Kazuhiro Nakamura
Forrest Griffin Vs Lyoto Machida
Elvis Sinosic Vs Stephan Bonnar


----------



## AmRiT

I picked Fedor vs Couture, the others werent that great IMO

I'd also like to see:

BJ vs Sherk
Joe Lauzon vs Nate Diaz
GSP vs BJ
GSP vs Hughes 3
BJ vs Hughes 3
Anderson Silva vs Dan Henderson
Diego Sanchez vs Matt Hughes
Diego Sanchez vs Kos (rematch, i think Diego would take this)
BJ vs Gomi, Aoki, Melendez or Sakurai
Rampage vs Couture
GG vs Fedor
Arlovski vs Fedor
Arlovski vs CC


----------



## xeberus

*Am I the only one with money on Rich Franklin at UFC 77?*

So does anyone else out there think that rich franklin has a chance against anderson at UFC 77? Or will frank let the spider knee him in the face til he get KTFO?

Discuss


----------



## jamlena

xeberus said:


> So does anyone else out there think that rich franklin has a chance against anderson at UFC 77? Or will frank let the spider knee him in the face til he get KTFO?


I'm with you, I predicted Franklin taking the second fight months ago and I will go on record saying it again, Rich Franklin is going to win the title back.


----------



## royalking87

um ur probably one of the only few betting on rich anderson is jut a monster


----------



## MAVERIK

Hmmmm, I think it could be a close fight with Franklin perhaps ending up on top on the ground a few times. However I think Silva's standup and wirey ground game will lead him to a round 2-3 TKO. Though I think if Franklin is very cautious standing up he could get a decision via lay and pray. My money is on Spider though


----------



## jehu pitchfork

i know spider destroyed franklin, but my money is on franklin this time. im hoping there was a HUGE fire lit under his a**.


----------



## Uchaaa

Why do you think rich will win? He was the champion and he was a good one until silva kicked his ass. It doesnt matter how hard he trains, he will always lose to silva(my opinion).
Didnt you see the look at his face at ufc 73? He was so scared of silva, everytime when he trains he will think: shit i have to fight silva again. And he will kick my ass again.


----------



## brief

Silva by a nose.


----------



## Judoka

Franklin has been training hard and said his trainers taught him block methods other then blocking a knee with his nose.

It will be a tough fight, much longer then the first and more even but i am going with Anderson Silva.


----------



## ID06

He was trading pretty well with Silva until he got caught in a clinch, I think they will have a boring fight with Franklin taking the UD


----------



## Gluteal Cleft

brief said:


> Silva by a nose.


 Ha! Terrific!

Repped.


----------



## DangerMouse666

As much as I like Rich. He's gonna lose again. It would Rock if he didn't but....:fight02:


----------



## wukkadb

Why do you think Rich will win? I think he has a chance if he puts Silva on his back, but Silva's bjj is wayy better than Franklin's, so even from his back I think he can win the fight.


----------



## DrederickTatum

Two talented strikers going at each other...sure Silva is more precise but anyone that thinks that Franklin only has a puncher's chance has it wrong imo.


----------



## keno5366

DangerMouse666 said:


> As much as I like Rich. He's gonna lose again. It would Rock if he didn't but....:fight02:



My thoughts exactly.


----------



## bbjd7

I think Franklin is a good striker and if Anderson doesn't come prepared Rich will KO him but otherwise I think Anderson's striking is to precise for Franklin and I think Anderson (who's striking has gotten better since there last fight IMO) Will pick him apart standing and if Franklin tries to take him down he might get caught in the clinch and then it's game over so My money is on Anderson.


----------



## ozz525

xeberus said:


> So does anyone else out there think that rich franklin has a chance against anderson at UFC 77? Or will frank let the spider knee him in the face til he get KTFO?
> 
> Discuss


He is getting KO'ed and you are lossing your money


----------



## southpaw447

I don't know about anyone else but that first fight was no fluke. Anderson would have won even if it hadn't ended up in the clinch.

I don't think anyone at this point can stop anderson.

Besides Franklin's size advantage he is at a disadvantage almost everywhere else compared to Silva. Franklins striking looks good but Anderson is just head and shoulders better in every aspect. 

The look on Franklins face after the Marquardt fight was priceless. Rich is scared


----------



## js9234

I'll be putting my money on Franklin. He has awesome BJJ but never needs to use it. Haven't seen too many people pull out of a submission attempt like Okami had tried on him and his standup is top notch. Very unorthodox though. He's a righty but taught himself to fight southpaw to get better angles and he throws looping punches, even his jabs. I don't think Rich has a disadvantage in any apect at all. I like Silva and think he's a great champ but I'm rooting for Rich on he rematch...


----------



## Biowza

Franklin will not win. Anderson easily imo, don't think anyone can beat him until Henderson drops down (if he will)


----------



## southpaw447

Who ever neg repped me for saying rich didn't look scared after Silva laid waste to Nate is an idiot. And next time leave your name and grow some hair on your cojones


----------



## M_D

I will go on the record and say I would like Franklin to win but that is all I will say for i think the fight could go either way


----------



## dutch sauce

im in the middle on this fight. im slightly leaning towards franklin. i cant see him loosin twice in a row,


----------



## Biowza

Biowza said:


> Franklin will not win. Anderson easily imo, don't think anyone can beat him until Henderson drops down (if he will)


OK! lets neg rep me for this. I didn't insult anyone, I made no out of line comments. I just stated my opinion. Don't see how that constitues a neg rep. Oh and if you are going to do it, at least have the balls to leave your name or at the VERY VERY least, leave a comment that explains why you neg repped me, instead of just saying "dumbass"


----------



## JT42

Anderson is amazing but I actually think and hope Rich will win this. I only hope this happens because it will keep the MW division competitive. I honestly think that if Rich cant beat Silva, no one currently in the MW division can. I hate to say it but I think it will be somewhat of a lay and pray victory for Rich. I think he knows Anderson is much better on his feet and in the clinch so he will go for the takedown and do just enough to keep control and avoid submissions and pull out the victory.


----------



## Flak

I think if Rich takes it to the later rounds which is completely uncharted territory for Anderson - he'll win.

If it's an all out, balls to the wall brawl, Rich will win.

If it's a slower tactical fight and Rich makes even the smallest mistake, Anderson will win.


----------



## NaChOmAmA

Who ever said that Richs striking is on par with Andersons no problem doesnt realize that credentials behind Anderson compared to the "freestyle" fighting technique that Rich uses...Muay Thai and BJJ Black belt from the Nog bros imo makes a pretty rediculous combination. Plus he comes from a Vale Tudo background which has toughend him up and the gloves feel nice now  haha!

The only people in the MMA world that Dana could bring in compete and possibly win would be:

Matt Linland
Dan Henderson
Filo Paulo (sp)
uhhh...a few more I cant think of maybe


Rich just cant cut the mustard anymore...and its because the INTERNATIONAL doors opened in the UFC and hes just the american champion...he was the best until the big boys came around. If Okami would have pushed himself he could have taken Rich - but he hesitated and lost - Yes I think rich is a decent figther - one of hte best the UFC has - but Dan Henderson would RIP him apart, Filo would do the same - matt would just destroy him, and weve all seen and will see once again what Anderson did to him...hes just not on the same level.

Its nothing to be ashamed of, hes just outclassed.

NaChOmAmA


----------



## MMAmatt

i think it will be a much closer fight, at least i think that this fight will potentially go a lot longer, but then again Silva could just walk through him again..

either way i dont see franklin winning.


----------



## Calibretto9

Can anyone post a link to the Silva/Franklin fight video? When that thing was new, you couldn't go on a video site without finding a hundred, but now they're hard to come by. I'd like to watch it a few more times before making a second fight prediction.


----------



## ozz525

Calibretto9 said:


> Can anyone post a link to the Silva/Franklin fight video? When that thing was new, you couldn't go on a video site without finding a hundred, but now they're hard to come by. I'd like to watch it a few more times before making a second fight prediction.


Anderson Silva vs Rich Franklin


----------



## Terry77

Calibretto9 said:


> Can anyone post a link to the Silva/Franklin fight video? When that thing was new, you couldn't go on a video site without finding a hundred, but now they're hard to come by. I'd like to watch it a few more times before making a second fight prediction.


http://www.mmaforum.com/mma-videos-downloads/4626-my-whole-mma-collection-permanent-links.html

It's in this thread here, props to the mma miracle. Franklin can ko Silva, I'm going to say it now, problem is he seems hell bent to take this to the ground. Which will not be out of the woods for Franklin. Rich just needs to avoid the clinch and not close in too far on Silva. I'm still predicting Anderson by tko possibly 3rd round. He's on a serious role now and Franklin has to avoid the Thai clinch at all costs, pepper him from the outside if possible. Silva's reach will also kill those hopes in my eyes.


----------



## Calibretto9

Thanks for the links to the vids guys.

After watching it again, I was reminded of how much Franklin didn't look himself. Walking up, in fight, post fight - The guy just looks sick. While I don't know if it would have changed the initial outcome, Franklin just didn't look himself that night.

But, as for their next fight, everything has changed. Anderson is riding a winning streak, now he has the belt, and he has all the confidence that comes with absolutely destroying an opponent. Rich, on the flipside of that, has lost his belt, and going to have to go back in and fight the guy who rearranged his face. It's going to be for Franklin to step into the octagon, let alone fight like himself.

I think Franklin has the tools to win, but I don't think he will. I would be pleasantly surprised to see Rich win, but like I said, I'd be surprised.


----------



## Natural Ice

I thought in the first fight, despite Franklin looking out of character, he did pretty well against Silva until he got caught in the clinch and just couldn't go anywhere. Obviously staying out of the clinch will be important because if Silva grabs him again, it could be another short fight.

If Franklin can trade with Silva, I give him a punchers chance. Obviously Silva is a better striker but Franklin has KO power. I also think Franklin may take the fight to the ground and just work some GnP and avoiding any up kicks. I also think Franklin will test the cardio of Silva as I don't believe he's gone the distance while Franklin has. 

I still think Silva takes it though.


----------



## LightweightFighter

I think Rich will take Randy's advice in that BJJ guys are too comfortable with pulling guard and Rich can exploit that and stay on top of Anderson for the whole fight and might possibly win via GnP. 

But wouldn't it be ironic if Rich trained for the clinch so much that he can put out Anderson using his own clinch like the way Evan Tanner utilizes the clinch.

I predict the first to happen though.


----------



## Fedor>all

I've always liked Rich Franklin, but in the past few fights Anderson Silva has really become one of my favourites. Like Joe Rogan said, his striking is like a beautiful ballet of violence, really something to be in awe of.

I've gone on record saying this many many many times over the last few months, but I think Rich Franklin can pull off the victory against Silva. Anderson while being well-rounded has never truly been tested and grounded out to the later rounds, whereas Franklin's cardio is quite good and we know he can go the distance. 

Not to forget Silva sometimes gets overzealous with his striking.. look at his last fight against Marquardt, Silva tried a flying knee that missed and he was taken down as a result. 

I think once Anderson starts losing that snap to his striking in round 4 or 5 Franklin could definitely take the fight.

All Rich needs to do is avoid the clinch! But I think if he wins it will be via decision.:dunno:


----------



## 6sidedlie

Franklin has the skill and size to beat Silva IMO, but can he put it all together and catch Silva? I doubt it, I'd bet on Silva just because if Franklin does manage to get this to the ground Silva can potentially sub him there. Standing, I don't know. I'll take Silvas' prececision over Franklins power I suppose. 

Franklin has got to avoid the clinch, a slow tactical battle, and he needs to THROW DOWN!

He makes one mistake though, she's all over.


----------



## Grotty

There is no definite winner in this match, Franklin will keep it standing i have no doubt on that, Silva is not invincible- watch his fight against Lee Murray - ok Murray Lost but was only beaten on points.
Mind you maybe Franklin has a point to prove he may take Silva to the Ground :dunno: and try and pound out a win.
I honestly think Tanner would do better in the clinch game even now but its Franklin fighting and he will be the underdog due to Silvas winning streak.


----------



## JT42

Has anyone seen Silva on the ground? I have only seen a few of his Pride fights and the ones in the UFC but Silva does not seem to be able to defend GNP all that well. Carlos Newton got some great hits on Silva while in his guard and only lost because he took it back to the feet. Lutter also was getting some great hits on Silva when in his guard. I think Rich needs to take it to the ground as soon as he can and pound him out.


----------



## 6sidedlie

Franklin might be a little hesitate in bring a black belt in BJJ to the ground.

But I'll agree, it's probably his best option.


----------



## IcemanCometh

*Silva all the way...*

This is simply put Anderson Silva has fought tougher, better competition and come out top time and time again. Five of his wins have gone to UD so I don't see him gassing. His stand up is far superior to Mr. Franklin's who throws wide looping punches while Silva can throw straight down the pipe and awesome uppercuts since he works out with Big Nog. Anyone else remember this gem:
YouTube - Anderson Silva Sparring with Minotauro - MMA Fever!

Among boxing Silva also trains BJJ with Big Nog and has a black belt from the man in 2005, so please don't bring up the flying heel hook crap. He took out Lutter a great BJJ guy, possibly better than Franklin.

Add to all that he is a former memeber of Chute Boxe Academy which means he has mean mauy thai and the mind set to win fights. Does anyone know if he lost his Cage Rage MW title or was forced to drop it, he held that title for a long time.

When you put that all together it spells disaster for Franklin's limbs, face, nose. I also thought I heard Franklin cannot watch the first fight b/c it fucks with him, is that still true? I think his face after Nate/Anserson was great and proves he isn't ready for The Spider. Anderson late first rd stoppage or early 2nd rd. KO.


----------



## Halebop

If someone told me that Rich Franklin had to win that fight or I would be killed.......I would be lining up a casket and pallbearers.


----------



## JT42

6sidedlie said:


> Franklin might be a little hesitate in bring a black belt in BJJ to the ground.
> 
> But I'll agree, it's probably his best option.


I am not saying Anderson doesnt have a good ground game but I think that just because someone is a "black belt" doesnt mean you should be afraid to take them to the ground. I have seen a lot of "black belts" in the UFC and Pride suck on the ground. I am just saying that the times I have seen Anderson on the ground with an aggressive puncher on top, he hasnt looked very good at all. Definitely the best thing for Rich to do.


----------



## Natural Ice

Franklin should probably start the fight from his knees. That's an easy way to avoid the clinch.


----------



## IcemanCometh

jtaylor42 said:


> I am not saying Anderson doesnt have a good ground game but I think that just because someone is a "black belt" doesnt mean you should be afraid to take them to the ground. I have seen a lot of "black belts" in the UFC and Pride suck on the ground. I am just saying that the times I have seen Anderson on the ground with an aggressive puncher on top, he hasnt looked very good at all. Definitely the best thing for Rich to do.


Right and not every black belt got their belt from Minaturo and train regulary with Paulo Filho.:thumb02: 

I think those days are long past Silva. I also feel if you watch the Nate The Great fight he controls Nate on the ground till the stand up and then avoids a TD for the switch and takes Nate down for the win.


----------



## JT42

IcemanCometh said:


> Right and not every black belt got their belt from Minaturo and train regulary with Paulo Filho.:thumb02:
> 
> I think those days are long past Silva. I also feel if you watch the Nate The Great fight he controls Nate on the ground till the stand up and then avoids a TD for the switch and takes Nate down for the win.


Very good point. You earn a black belt from the Nogueira brothers and you are no slouch. Unfortunately I didnt see the fight with Marquardt so I cant speak on that. It just seems that the only times I have ever seen Anderson in trouble in any of his fights, he was on the bottom getting pounded out. We will see, should be interesting.


----------



## IcemanCometh

jtaylor42 said:


> Very good point. You earn a black belt from the Nogueira brothers and you are no slouch. Unfortunately I didnt see the fight with Marquardt so I cant speak on that. It just seems that the only times I have ever seen Anderson in trouble in any of his fights, he was on the bottom getting pounded out. We will see, should be interesting.



Here is the fight, I say watch this fight and tell me what Franklin will do differently on the ground than Nate "the great"? I love the switch at around 30 seconds, also notice how Silva is looking for subs, hold Nate down its awesome. 
MySpaceTV: Anderson Silva Vs Nate Marquardt by Fred


----------



## wukkadb

jtaylor42 said:


> I am not saying Anderson doesnt have a good ground game but I think that just because someone is a "black belt" doesnt mean you should be afraid to take them to the ground. I have seen a lot of "black belts" in the UFC and Pride suck on the ground. I am just saying that the times I have seen Anderson on the ground with an aggressive puncher on top, he hasnt looked very good at all. Definitely the best thing for Rich to do.


Meh, gonna have to disagree with you there. I think Silva has one of the best and most active guards in MMA.


----------



## Judoka

*BJJ Blackbelt point*

Although you may get a black belt from someone really good like Minotauro or someone but the ground games of some "BJJ Black Belts" prove that Proi MMA Fighters get Black Belts alot easier but thats some and how good they are on the ground varies but a few pro MMA Fighters don't deserve a BJJ Black Belt.

I have not seen enough of Anderson Silva's ground game to call whether he deserves a BJJ Black Belt.


----------



## J Stokes

Halebop said:


> If someone told me that Rich Franklin had to win that fight or I would be killed.......I would be lining up a casket and pallbearers.


:laugh: That is priceless...


----------



## wukkadb

Judoka said:


> *BJJ Blackbelt point*
> 
> Although you may get a black belt from someone really good like Minotauro or someone but the ground games of some "BJJ Black Belts" prove that Proi MMA Fighters get Black Belts alot easier but thats some and how good they are on the ground varies but a few pro MMA Fighters don't deserve a BJJ Black Belt.
> 
> I have not seen enough of Anderson Silva's ground game to call whether he deserves a BJJ Black Belt.


Name one example of a pro MMA fighter who has a black belt in bjj and doesn't deserve it..


----------



## TheNegation

Judoka said:


> *BJJ Blackbelt point*
> 
> 
> 
> I have not seen enough of Anderson Silva's ground game to call whether he deserves a BJJ Black Belt.


Anderson silva deserves a BJJ blackbelt.

Andy ''Warrior'' Wang is JJ, not BJJ right?


----------



## royalking87

anderson is a excellent bjj practicioner he deserves the blackbelt he submitted lutter pretty easily


----------



## IcemanCometh

Andy Wang is BJJ I believe, that is why Penn told him to take the fight to the ground.


----------



## J Stokes

IcemanCometh said:


> Andy Wang is BJJ I believe, that is why Penn told him to take the fight to the ground.


Yeah, he's BJJ. That's why I don't understand that he always wants to stand up and fight, not take it to the ground. I think he could be a much better fighter if he did what he was best at. He's a moron for trying to stand with good strikers like Cole Miller and Brandon Melendez. :confused03:


----------



## Aaronyman

jamlena said:


> I'm with you, I predicted Franklin taking the second fight months ago and I will go on record saying it again, Rich Franklin is going to win the title back.


hehe, your avatar and sig made me think you'd say it :thumb02: 
glad your sticking to your boy.

I'd predict a very competitve fight this time. I think Rich has a better understanding of Silva now that he's fought a few more times in the octagon.

I'll make a final prediction closer to the fight, but as it stands now, I see no reason why Silva won't beat rich.


----------



## TheNegation

IcemanCometh said:


> Andy Wang is BJJ I believe, that is why Penn told him to take the fight to the ground.


Well, there ya go wukkadb!


----------



## wafb

I think that with his heart, hard work and determination Franklin will win his belt back. I will take a sig bet on that.


----------



## wukkadb

TheNegation said:


> Well, there ya go wukkadb!


Ya, but being a shitty MMA fighter doesn't mean you don't deserve a black belt in BJJ. Look at Dean Lister, he has a terrible time adjusting to MMA but he's one of the better bjj practicioners out there.


----------



## raymardo

jamlena said:


> I'm with you, I predicted Franklin taking the second fight months ago and I will go on record saying it again, Rich Franklin is going to win the title back.


Obviously you're a Franklin fan (with a very cool avatar :thumbsup, but other than that; why do you think he will beat Silva?

The first fight was pretty convincing and lopsided. I'm curious to hear a good reason other tha just hope. Silva seems like a bad match up for Rich, who is a good fighter - very good. It just seems like Silva may have his number.


----------



## Calibretto9

raymardo said:


> Obviously you're a Franklin fan (with a very cool avatar :thumbsup, but other than that; why do you think he will beat Silva?
> 
> The first fight was pretty convincing and lopsided. I'm curious to hear a good reason other tha just hope. Silva seems like a bad match up for Rich, who is a good fighter - very good. It just seems like Silva may have his number.


It's really hard to convince me that Silva has Franklin's number when Franklin came into their last fight looking sick as a dog. Heck, Franklin's wife was crying before the fight even started. Silva may be the better fighter, but I don't know that he particularly has Franklin's number. Do I think Silva will win? Yes. Do I think his style is particularly bad for Franklin? Not really, and in fact, I think even if Silva wins, Franklin will make it into the later rounds. If Rich gets owned again, I'll eat my words, but last time he wasn't himself and that makes it hard to imagine the rematch.


----------



## Aaronyman

Calibretto9 said:


> It's really hard to convince me that Silva has Franklin's number when Franklin came into their last fight looking sick as a dog. Heck, Franklin's wife was crying before the fight even started. Silva may be the better fighter, but I don't know that he particularly has Franklin's number. Do I think Silva will win? Yes. Do I think his style is particularly bad for Franklin? Not really, and in fact, I think even if Silva wins, Franklin will make it into the later rounds. If Rich gets owned again, I'll eat my words, but last time he wasn't himself and that makes it hard to imagine the rematch.


i knew rich had taken the fight quite soon after surgery, but was he sick for the fight? i never knew that.

i liked when i saw hughes comforting franklin's wife after the fight. one of hughes better out of octagon moments :thumbsup:


----------



## ozz525

I want one guy here to make a good point on how Rich will beat Silva. Please someone help me see your side, because I see this ending in the 2nd Via TKO after Silva lays a beating on rich.


----------



## Halebop

ozz525 said:


> I want one guy here to make a good point on how Rich will beat Silva. Please someone help me see your side, because I see this ending in the 2nd Via TKO after Silva lays a beating on rich.


Well okay, how bout the fact that Rich is a really nice guy? All kidding aside, I agree with your point completely. The fact is that two fighters I have tremendous respect for are going to face off and one of them has to lose. IMO Nate Marquardt v. Rich would be more evenly matched. Anderson is on another level.


----------



## gwabblesore

Silva's becoming the new GSP, damn good fighter but not THAT good jesus. You guys not giving Rich a shot have lost your minds. If Matt Lindland came in I think the Silva worship would get a harsh reality check from the ugly smelly one.

Silva by TKO but I'll be rooting for Rich and I _know_ he's not gonna go down as easy as last time.


----------



## Fedor>all

The fight between Silva and Franklin wasn't lop-sided until Franklin was caught in the clinch and simply looked like a deer in headlights. To my recollection, Franklin hasn't fought anyone that uses the muay thai as actively as Anderson Silva.

Before he was caught however, Rich was actually being the more active striker, as you can see he wasn't being stalked by Anderson, he WAS the stalker.

I think Rich really stands a puncher's chance. Anderson is an excellent technical striker, but Matt Serra proved that being the better striker on paper, doesn't make you a dominant striker.


----------



## gwabblesore

Fedor>all said:


> The fight between Silva and Franklin wasn't lop-sided until Franklin was caught in the clinch and simply looked like a deer in headlights. To my recollection, Franklin hasn't fought anyone that uses the muay thai as actively as Anderson Silva.
> 
> Before he was caught however, Rich was actually being the more active striker, as you can see he wasn't being stalked by Anderson, he WAS the stalker.
> 
> I think Rich really stands a puncher's chance. Anderson is an excellent technical striker, but Matt Serra proved that being the better striker on paper, doesn't make you a dominant striker.


Ugh dont compare this to Serra GSP, Rich v. Silva is a much more even fight. Id consider it a slight upset if Rich won but that's all. Rich stands much more than a puncher's chance.


----------



## Fedor>all

gwabblesore said:


> Ugh dont compare this to Serra GSP, Rich v. Silva is a much more even fight. Id consider it a slight upset if Rich won but that's all. Rich stands much more than a puncher's chance.


I'm not comparing Serra to Rich, I'm making the statement that no matter who you are, what it says on paper is absolutely irrelevant in the octagon. On paper GSP was a better striker than Matt Serra, yet Matt Serra caught GSP. I'm not saying Rich is on Serra's level, at all. But thanks for entirely missing my point :thumbsdown:


----------



## Terry77

Rich's punches are very unorthodox, he has a better chance than most of catching Silva.


----------



## gwabblesore

Fedor>all said:


> I'm not comparing Serra to Rich, I'm making the statement that no matter who you are, *what it says on paper is absolutely irrelevant in the octagon*. On paper GSP was a better striker than Matt Serra, yet Matt Serra caught GSP. I'm not saying Rich is on Serra's level, at all. But thanks for entirely missing my point :thumbsdown:


Only by having such an irrational point could you use such an irrational comparison (Franklin to Serra).

If whats on paper didn't matter all odds can go out the window every fight's 50 50.

Serra v. Gsp II = GSP wins decisively 98% chance

Franklin v. Silva II = close fight  I'll give it to Silva by a hair though.


----------



## Boxing>MMA

> Originally Posted by: Deaner
> held the title for 3 years


Might wanna check out the facts.

I have faith that Rich Franklin will win and honestly that is really all I have.


----------



## Halebop

Boxing>MMA said:


> I have faith that Rich Franklin will win.


Have you alerted the odds-makers in Vegas? I wasn't a big believer in the role of my faith in a fighters ability to win until my man Diego totally destroyed Kos (I had faith in Diego in that fight)....thats what happened right?

PS. I tend to block out traumatic memories.


----------



## Don$ukh

I dont know why everyone keeps saying Franklin is scared. Come on he is going to come into the fight over 200lbs. He is going to be bigger then silva. When he walks into the octagon his adrenaline is going to be flowing and he has the chance to take his belt back. Iv been scared fighting in savate tournaments but man adrenaline gets you going. We all have seen what Franklin has done to his oppenents and remember it could only take one clean punch to take silva out. I think silva got shivers from watching that franklin left straight knock out quarry.


----------



## royalking87

hes gonna come in over 200 his adrenaline then wake up saying wat happened


----------



## ozz525

Don$ukh said:


> I dont know why everyone keeps saying Franklin is scared. Come on he is going to come into the fight over 200lbs. He is going to be bigger then silva. When he walks into the octagon his adrenaline is going to be flowing and he has the chance to take his belt back. Iv been scared fighting in savate tournaments but man adrenaline gets you going. We all have seen what Franklin has done to his oppenents and remember it could only take one clean punch to take silva out. I think silva got shivers from watching that franklin left straight knock out quarry.


None of that helped him in there first fight right? Rich shakes when he see's pics of his nose before and after.


----------



## Fedor>all

gwabblesore said:


> Only by having such an irrational point could you use such an irrational comparison (Franklin to Serra).
> 
> If whats on paper didn't matter all odds can go out the window every fight's 50 50.
> 
> Serra v. Gsp II = GSP wins decisively 98% chance
> 
> Franklin v. Silva II = close fight  I'll give it to Silva by a hair though.


How is my comparison irrational in the least? Like I said, what's on paper doesn't dictate a fight. Gameplans and execution of said gameplans wins fights, end of story.


----------



## gwabblesore

Deaner said:


> Maybe it wasn't _quite_ that long but it was a ridiculously long time for a fighter of his skill level and it was complete bullshit.
> 
> And if you have so much faith lets make it interesting with a sig bet. If Franklin even survives through the first round you win.


I'll take you on that, though I dont know if I should given how few posts you've made, you gonna stick around?


----------



## gwabblesore

Fedor>all said:


> How is my comparison irrational in the least? Like I said, what's on paper doesn't dictate a fight. Gameplans and execution of said gameplans wins fights, end of story.


We agree on the fight at hand, no reason for us to even be arguing


----------



## Demigorgon

brief said:


> Silva by a nose.


LMAO!


----------



## Fedor>all

gwabblesore said:


> We agree on the fight at hand, no reason for us to even be arguing


Haha I know I know 

WAR FRANKLIN!!!


----------



## Cowmilker

Although I will be rooting for Rich Franklin, I have a strong feeling that Anderson Silva will win. He is just too fast for Franklin to keep up with. The only way Rich could pull it off IMO is if he stretches the fight out and takes Silva all 5 rounds, because The Spider hasn't ever went to a decision and got the win.


----------



## WestCoastPoutin

My hearts with him, but my money's staying in my pocket.


----------



## Z-man-mma-fan

Cowmilker said:


> Although I will be rooting for Rich Franklin, I have a strong feeling that Anderson Silva will win. He is just too fast for Franklin to keep up with. The only way Rich could pull it off IMO is if he stretches the fight out and takes Silva all 5 rounds, because The Spider hasn't ever went to a decision and got the win.


actually he has taken something like 5 of his wins to a decision. franklin fans are running of holes to try to show in silvas game, first they said it was a lucky fight, then they said silvas ground game was crap, and now they are trying to pick at his cardio.

belive me, he has been fighting muay thai for almost 15 years. he is in phenominal condition. he also is more lean than franklin and probably has BETTER conditioning.


----------



## SuzukS

If Franklin is careful and avoide the clinch and just jabs from far using his reach advantage (i'm sure he has it over silva) he could get a UD victory. Either that or he could get a lucky shot. I think if Franklin just avoide the clinch he has a fair chance.


----------



## js9234

Deaner said:


> Franklin is a joke...he's a relic from the days when the UFC protected certain fighters because they attracted the right demographic. The dumb, white, coors drinking, american male, aged 18 to 30. They needed a good old all american posterboy to hold the title so that dumb ass ex pro-wresling fans could slap each other on the backs and say "Dang gummit us americans have the best fighters in the world! Yee haw!" when it couldn't be further from the truth. In reality Pride had far superior talent and the UFC fighters were second rate at best.
> 
> 
> Anyone with an ounce of intelligence or mma knowledge knows that what I'm saying is 100% true


I'm starting to think you are the only UNintelligent guy in this thread. Pride did not have far superior talent and UFC didn't protect him you moron. I like how you stereotype MMA fans. Show's how stupid you really are.
As for the other nontrolls on here, I think Franklin definitely has the tools to beat Silva but Silva is an awesome fighter. I won't be disappointed with whoever wins.


----------



## xeberus

*What Happened to Sean Sherk?*

Anyone have any Info? Did he get the extension or did he go before the counsel or what? Ill rep whoever gives me info.


----------



## jasvll

The extension was granted.


----------



## xeberus

jasvll said:


> The extension was granted.


Thank you kind sir. repped


----------



## Game Over

The only thing I'm going to say is I saw an interview awhile ago with Rich Franklin saying that in the first fight he planned on clinching because he thought he would be able to overpower Silva. This fight he said he'll be much more aware of Silva's excellent clinch. I believe the first fight he was a little overconfident and didn't realize how skilled Silva was. If he fights a smart fight, he could easily win with the skill set he has.


----------



## Cowmilker

Z-man-mma-fan said:


> actually he has taken something like 5 of his wins to a decision. franklin fans are running of holes to try to show in silvas game, first they said it was a lucky fight, then they said silvas ground game was crap, and now they are trying to pick at his cardio.
> 
> belive me, he has been fighting muay thai for almost 15 years. he is in phenominal condition. he also is more lean than franklin and probably has BETTER conditioning.


Uh, dude. I never said that Franklin had better conditioning, and that wasn't what I was trying to get at about the taking fights to a decision comment. I was more talking about how that is not his element and style of fighting, so if someone could find a way to get him going 5 rounds, he wouldn't be in his element and they could catch him. That's what I was trying to say. Sorry for the mix-up.


----------



## gwabblesore

Deaner said:


> Franklin is a joke...he's a relic from the days when the UFC protected certain fighters because they attracted the right demographic. The dumb, white, coors drinking, american male, aged 18 to 30. They needed a good old all american posterboy to hold the title so that dumb ass ex pro-wresling fans could slap each other on the backs and say "Dang gummit us americans have the best fighters in the world! Yee haw!" when it couldn't be further from the truth. In reality Pride had far superior talent and the UFC fighters were second rate at best.
> 
> 
> Anyone with an ounce of intelligence or mma knowledge knows that what I'm saying is 100% true


Okay rack up the Crocop excuses, how about Gomi? Whatever dude 100% true my cock.


----------



## Fedor>all

SuzukS said:


> If Franklin is careful and avoide the clinch and just jabs from far using his reach advantage (i'm sure he has it over silva) he could get a UD victory. Either that or he could get a lucky shot. I think if Franklin just avoide the clinch he has a fair chance.


In the tale of the tape, Silva actually has the half-inch reach advantage. 

Most of Silva's fights have come against fighters that make use of a regular stand-up stance. Rich Franklin is a southpaw that throws VERY awkward punches with his arms instead of his shoulders and if you watch their first fight closely, you can see that Silva is a little tentative in the beginning because of this. Rich has devastating KO power and he's not afraid to throw.

Technically Silva's striking is MUCH better, but people don't get KO'd based on technique, they get KO'd because of extreme force on the right button. All it takes is one clean shot from Franklin and we could see the belt change hands again.

It's unlikely that Rich will win, but I do believe he has a puncher's chance.


----------



## jamlena

Fedor>all said:


> In the tale of the tape, Silva actually has the half-inch reach advantage.
> 
> Most of Silva's fights have come against fighters that make use of a regular stand-up stance. Rich Franklin is a southpaw that throws VERY awkward punches with his arms instead of his shoulders and if you watch their first fight closely, you can see that Silva is a little tentative in the beginning because of this. Rich has devastating KO power and he's not afraid to throw.
> 
> Technically Silva's striking is MUCH better, but people don't get KO'd based on technique, they get KO'd because of extreme force on the right button. All it takes is one clean shot from Franklin and we could see the belt change hands again.
> 
> It's unlikely that Rich will win, but I do believe he has a puncher's chance.


I can't argue with most of what you said but I do think Franklin has more than just a punchers chance, I really think Franklin is going to pull out this victory and be champ once again. Repped for an excellent post :thumbsup:


----------



## e-thug

Cant see Franklin pullin off the victory hear. I do see him doin better than last time (Cant do much worse)

I just think that Silva has Franklins #, his strikin is pinpoint and his clinch is devastating.


----------



## Fedor>all

Thanks jam, rep is coming right back at you.

Rich certainly does have more than a puncher's chance, I just think that his devastating KO power happens to be his best one.

People are jumping all over Rich forgetting that the man always presses the action and puts on a show, only having lost 2 times in his career against TOUGH opponents. 

He remains one of my favourite UFC fights, just because of the fact he brings it each and EVERY time.


----------



## Harbinger

Deaner said:


> Franklin is a joke...he's a relic from the days when the UFC protected certain fighters because they attracted the right demographic. The dumb, white, coors drinking, american male, aged 18 to 30. They needed a good old all american posterboy to hold the title so that dumb ass ex pro-wresling fans could slap each other on the backs and say "Dang gummit us americans have the best fighters in the world! Yee haw!" when it couldn't be further from the truth. In reality Pride had far superior talent and the UFC fighters were second rate at best.
> 
> 
> Anyone with an ounce of intelligence or mma knowledge knows that what I'm saying is 100% true


Everyone is entitled to thier own opinion. We now know that you are not a Franklin fan, it's obvious so you've stated your opinion. :sarcastic07: Now here's mine. Quit talking out of your ass you troll! A relic? :confused03: It's not exactly an opinion but I just wanted to say that.


----------



## Halebop

Deaner said:


> I'm sorry js9234 but I'm going to have to neg rep you for name calling. Personal attacks are actually against the rules on this forum.


Yeah, seriously personal attacks are uncalled for and really indicative of a lack of class. 

In other news,

Hey, can a Mod ban this **** "Deaner"? There are good topics all over the forum with good posts and then this hot cup of shit will add a dumb post that may or may not be his real opinion but that is besides his point. His point is to piss people off, it does and then the thread goes to absolute shit. Thank you.


----------



## payableondeath

Halebop said:


> Yeah, seriously personal attacks are uncalled for and really indicative of a lack of class.
> 
> In other news,
> 
> Hey, can a Mod ban this **** "Deaner"? There are good topics all over the forum with good posts and then this hot cup of shit will add a dumb post that may or may not be his real opinion but that is besides his point. His point is to piss people off, it does and then the thread goes to absolute shit. Thank you.


:laugh: Priceless.


----------



## js9234

Halebop said:


> Yeah, seriously personal attacks are uncalled for and really indicative of a lack of class.
> 
> In other news,
> 
> Hey, can a Mod ban this **** "Deaner"? There are good topics all over the forum with good posts and then this hot cup of shit will add a dumb post that may or may not be his real opinion but that is besides his point. His point is to piss people off, it does and then the thread goes to absolute shit. Thank you.


You are showing you're lack of class by calling that **** a **** :thumb02:


----------



## gleaminx

ext for october 8th if irc.


----------



## WestCoastPoutin

gleaminx said:


> ext for october 8th if irc.



I apologize for being an idiot in advance.

I know what happened but

Whats an extention?

Whats irc?

thanks.


----------



## Negative1

The extension for his appeal to the NSCA

I Remember Correctly


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

DrederickTatum said:


> Two talented strikers going at each other...sure Silva is more precise but anyone that thinks that Franklin only has a puncher's chance has it wrong imo.


Difference is Rich is a great striker, Anderson is a pheonominal striker.


----------



## ozz525

Rich has way to many nuthugers


----------



## Halebop

ozz525 said:


> Rich has way to many nuthugers


He has alot no doubt but I don't mind that with him. He is a class act and a good role model. Granted, I am 27 and in Law School so I could give a shit about a role model but hey, I care about kids....so much so that Chris Hansen from Dateline NBC actually rolled his eyes the last time he walked out from behind the curtain and saw me eating the plate of cookies. I was all: "CMon Chris, last time we met I told you I was sick of cookies. Who's a guy gotta blow around here to get a ******* Slim Jim???"


----------



## TheGreg

Silva will continue his path of destruction. He is just a machine...like he said, he will be champion for many years to come.


----------



## raymardo

Calibretto9 said:


> It's really hard to convince me that Silva has Franklin's number when Franklin came into their last fight looking sick as a dog. Heck, Franklin's wife was crying before the fight even started. Silva may be the better fighter, but I don't know that he particularly has Franklin's number. Do I think Silva will win? Yes. Do I think his style is particularly bad for Franklin? Not really, and in fact, I think even if Silva wins, Franklin will make it into the later rounds. If Rich gets owned again, I'll eat my words, but last time he wasn't himself and that makes it hard to imagine the rematch.


Either way, we're in for an interesting fight. :thumbsup:


----------



## CommanderCrunk

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Difference is Rich is a great striker, Anderson is a pheonominal striker.



diff is anderson outclasses rich on the feet everywhere.

he's got better hands, better feet, elbows and knee's 



thats being said andersons td defence has never impressed me, rich has great gnp and bjj and weve never seen him in a situation like this where he will needs too take his opponent down!

If rich brings his a game and some wrestling he could win.


----------



## IcemanCometh

CommanderCrunk said:


> diff is anderson outclasses rich on the feet everywhere.
> 
> he's got better hands, better feet, elbows and knee's
> 
> 
> 
> thats being said andersons td defence has never impressed me, rich has great gnp and bjj and weve never seen him in a situation like this where he will needs too take his opponent down!
> 
> If rich brings his a game and some wrestling he could win.


Again I really doubt that Nate the Great didn't do anything to Anderson on the ground and in the Chonan fight Anderson was outclassing the guy in stand up and stale mating him on the ground.


----------



## Cowmilker

ozz525 said:


> Rich has way to many nuthugers


Your right, Rich does have a lot of fans, but he deserves it. He gave a lot to the UFC and is a good role-model and fighter. I hope he beats Silva, but I just don't see it happening.


----------



## xeberus

*Ken Shamrock’s Son Makes MMA Debut Aug. 25*

Ryan Shamrock, the 18-year-old son of UFC Hall of Famer Ken Shamrock, will make his MMA debut at an Aug. 25 show promoted by Ken Shamrock Promotions.

The event takes place at the Feather Falls Casino in Oroville, Calif., which played host to an earlier “Fight at the Falls” event that was promoted by Shamrock’s production company back in March.

Ryan, who trains with his father’s Lion’s Den team, is one of three sons that Ken had with his first wife, Tina. None of the major databases have an amateur record listed for the teenager.

From 1998-1999, a fictitious World Wrestling Federation character named Ryan Shamrock played Ken Shamrock’s on-screen sister. Obviously, this is not the same Ryan who will be making his MMA debut next weekend. (In fact, the fake Ryan dated Ken for a time in 2003.)

Next week’s event takes place at 6 p.m., and doors open at 5 p.m. Tickets range from $5 to $65. For more information, call the casino at (877) 652-4646 ext. 510.

The elder Shamrock has been fighting professionally for nearly 14 years and competed in the very first UFC event. The submission specialist left the UFC for six years but ultimately returned to fight Tito Ortiz and then to coach a team on “The Ultimate Fighter 3” last year opposite Ortiz. In June, UFC president Dana White told told Yahoo! Sports he is not “planning to use” Shamrock for any upcoming fights.

from "http://ufcjunkie.com/2007/08/15/ken-shamrocks-son-makes-mma-debut-aug-25/"

Imagine this, Ryan Shamrock grows into a great fighter joins the UFC down the road and beats the shit out of an aging Tito Ortiz... Poetic justice :thumb02: 

Discuss!


----------



## jasvll

http://www.mmaforum.com/mmaforum-ge...-shamrock-s-son-makes-mma-debut-aug-25-a.html


----------



## xeberus

jasvll said:


> http://www.mmaforum.com/mmaforum-ge...-shamrock-s-son-makes-mma-debut-aug-25-a.html


damn.

missed that one, i was just reading it on ufcjunkie >_<

my bad, no one else post here so the thread will die.


----------



## Bonnar426

I hope he does well!:thumbsup:


----------



## xeberus

*Matt Serra video*

YouTube - long live THE TERROR!!!!!!!!

I just watched this and it gave me a laugh.

does serra have a chance against hughes? 

Discuss.


----------



## Negative1

hahhahahahhaha!


----------



## LivingDedMan

America!...F'ya! lol. The theme song from Team America: World Police by Trey Parker and Matt Stone for those that don't know where that tune is from.


----------



## southpaw447

To be honest I think his win over GSP was a huge confidence booster. I thionk Serra may have a ligit chance at beating Hughes. As far as BJJ and submissions I feel he's techinically better than hughes, power wise maybe not. Also I think his stand-up is a little better than Hughes'. 

I don't know. I think this is going to be a good fight but nonetheless I'm going to be pulling for Serra, not only bacause I don't like hughes, but because I want to see GSP redeem himself against Serra again once he's beat Koscheck this weekend


----------



## xeberus

*would you watch Babalu fight again?*

After seeing his unsportsmanlike conduct and risking great harm to an opponent just because he cannot control himself, would you watch him again? I have about 30ish guys i work with and all of them have said they would not watch him fight again.


----------



## SnakePit

strong hearsay stat. 

I'd watch him anyday.


----------



## WestCoastPoutin

What? You'll just turn the channel? Stare at your beer?

Watching the man fight doesnt mean I approve of what he did but I despise other fighters but still watch them fight. 

If you're asking if Ill go OUT OF MY WAY to see him fight, then no, I wont, but I wouldnt have before this incident anyways. If he's on a PPV I purchased or if Im at the bar to see the event, I will watch him.


----------



## green teabagger

overcourse, its not likes hes the first and he certainly wont be the last.


----------



## silvawand

Oh come on, of course I'll watch him again. He made a mistake, we all do, I just hope he realizes what he did was wrong and apologizes for it.

But if he doesn't, well I'll like him less as a person, but he's still one of my favourite fighters to watch, and I'll continue to watch him.


----------



## Adrnalnrsh

I will too


----------



## SnakePit

16-1 in favor of Babalu. 

Keep the common sense coming guys!


----------



## chilo

i think ill change my channel during his next fight and watch desperate housewives!... pfft yea right.


----------



## esv

Lol of course i would watch him again, LMAO the guy holds a choke for a few seconds longer than he should and now we can never watch him again. Lol give me a break


----------



## Calibretto9

In a heartbeat. Babalu is a great fighter who put on a great fight with Heath. That bout was gruesome and fun, and I'll be honest, while it wasn't very honorable behavior, after Heath's trash talking I couldn't help but laugh. Yeah, he shouldn't have done it, but I bet Heath won't be talking smack anytime soon. It sucks that Sobral did it, but he's getting fined, so let that be that. Do you watch Anderson Silva? Takanori Gomi? BJ Penn? Those are just a few fighters who have gone on after the ref tried to stop them, getting caught up in the heat of the moment. It happens in rough sports.


----------



## maxxb0y

ok, yes I would watch him. BJ did it to jens and no one is saying this ... come on let it go


----------



## Damone

Yeah, yeah I would. What he did was classless, but hey, it happens, unfortunately. It doesn't prevent me from watching Frank Shamrock, Gomi, and others. Not everyone can be Guy Mezger.


----------



## Adrnalnrsh

Damone said:


> Yeah, yeah I would. What he did was classless, but hey, it happens, unfortunately. It doesn't prevent me from watching Frank Shamrock, Gomi, and others. Not everyone can be Guy Mezger.



Was it classless? According to Babalu it was Heath's classlessness as to why he did it.


----------



## Damone

Both were, as far as I'm concerned. However, Babalu should've just let go after the tap, and soaked in the win. What Heath did was pretty lame, but Babalu should've had more sense.


----------



## SnakePit

30 to 2!!! 

Common sense is steam rollin'. yeah baby


----------



## chilo

Calibretto9 said:


> In a heartbeat. Babalu is a great fighter who put on a great fight with Heath. That bout was gruesome and fun, and I'll be honest, while it wasn't very honorable behavior, after Heath's trash talking I couldn't help but laugh. Yeah, he shouldn't have done it, but I bet Heath won't be talking smack anytime soon. It sucks that Sobral did it, but he's getting fined, so let that be that. Do you watch Anderson Silva? Takanori Gomi? BJ Penn? Those are just a few fighters who have gone on after the ref tried to stop them, getting caught up in the heat of the moment. It happens in rough sports.


gomi actually shoved the ref outta the way just to get in more shots haha!


----------



## WestCoastPoutin

CAn someone tell me what Heath said/did before the fight??

sorry if Im getting off track. I already answered the poll. I would watch him.


----------



## Fedor>all

Of course I'd keep watching Sobral. The audience loves to hate him, he's pretty much 100x the badass Phil Baroni thinks he is.


----------



## Damone

He actually looks like a badass, too; something Baroni has failed to do.

Still, Baroni's promo's are 100 times better. Maybe they can dub in Baroni's voice during Babalu's pre-fight promo's.


----------



## MetalMunkey

Fedor>all said:


> Of course I'd keep watching Sobral. The audience loves to hate him, he's pretty much 100x the badass Phil Baroni thinks he is.


HAHA, nice. And yeah I'd watch him, I just hope he doesn't get villainized into a long lay off.


----------



## SnakePit

Damone said:


> He actually looks like a badass, too; something Baroni has failed to do.
> 
> Still, Baroni's promo's are 100 times better. Maybe they can dub Baroni's voice in Babalu's pre-fight promo's.


Yeah, thatd be an epic combo. 

Speaking of Baroni, why is no one complaining about Frank holding him in a choke longer?


----------



## Wayneraltman

*Heath Got what he deserved*

Babalu was justified in choking him the F out. These guys take the trash talk way too far. Someone cusses me like that for no reason, and I will do what I can to slip him into unconsiousness. 
I cannot believe they are charging him 25k to do it either. Why not charge Heath 25 for provoking him? I am sick and tired of people being allowed to say whatever they want with no repercussion. If more people had the balls that Babalu has this world we be a BETTER place.


----------



## physioman

OK, Heath is no gentleman but Babalu went too far - the choke hold was intentional, he was repeatedly taped by the referee to stop the hold and still put Heath to sleep. Its dangerous and certainly not the image the UFC wants to have its fighters deliver. 

Having said all this, change the channel during a fight? What are you crazy?


----------



## Robopencil

Deffinitely would watch him again. Holding a choke for too long makes you look like a jerk. But I've seen other fighters hold chokes for just as long. He held it for 3 seconds after the tap.


----------



## capt_america

i love to watch him fight anytime..


----------



## moldy

Wayneraltman said:


> Babalu was justified in choking him the F out. These guys take the trash talk way too far. Someone cusses me like that for no reason, and I will do what I can to slip him into unconsiousness.
> I cannot believe they are charging him 25k to do it either. Why not charge Heath 25 for provoking him? I am sick and tired of people being allowed to say whatever they want with no repercussion. If more people had the balls that Babalu has this world we be a BETTER place.


I agree 100 percent this has probally been posted but this is a direct quote from babalu 
“I just thought that I needed to teach him respect after he showed me so much disrespect,” said Sobral, who engaged in a heated weigh-in staredown with Heath on Friday and claimed the Oklahoma native had previously shouted an obscenity at him. “I think that you can be fearless and tough and still maintain sportsmanship. He needed to be taught a lesson.”

Uttering obsenities is just as bad i'd say. They say be respectful and show sportmenship. Well don't cuss and insult someone. That is just as bad. And as far as saying david tapped. Never let go cause someone taps. Wait and make sure the ref sees it. We dont need contraversy like the yoshida royce fight. He did hold it a little long but not like he tore his head off.


----------



## SuzukS

As if I wouldn't watch Babalu fight just because of this! What kind of question is that? Seriously..


----------



## Couchwarrior

WestCoastPoutin said:


> CAn someone tell me what Heath said/did before the fight??


Second that.


----------



## sunley213

He's a great fighter one of the top light heavyweights in the UFC who would not want to see him fight?


----------



## WouldLuv2FightU

Hell yes I will watch him...I hope he fights like that all the time (not holding on to things long but how relentless he was). That fight was amazing, Babalu looked great and I think the choke made that fight insanely awesome. Babalu PUNISHED him horribly bad on purpose! How often do we get to see fights THAT incredibly violent? Usually only when Fedor fights. I hope the media and Dana don't get carried away with this. It's not as big of a deal as some of you are making it out to be. You all act like you are personally offended at this.


----------



## SuzukS

Yeah I just watched that fight on DM now, and wow that was awesome. Babalu just outclassed Heath and completely battered and bloodied him up before applying a deep anaconda choke and putting Heath to sleep. Shame that didn't make the main card..

And for those wondering, Heath wore a shirt that had a picture of Babalu's mug shot on the front. That's what Babalu meant about being disrespected.


----------



## Wayneraltman

He ALSO MFed him at the weigh in. Now Heath knows how smart both of those actions were. I guess he did not quite get into Babalu's head the way he intended.. 
Babalu did not hold the choke 25,000 dollars worth I can tell you that for sure. 
I feel like taking up a collection for Sobral, beats sending it to Katrina victims.


----------



## RHYNO2K

Wow.. that fight just... AMAZING, Babalu simply destroyed Heath, it was such a great fight, I hope he fights as soon as possible.


----------



## LivingDedMan

I think if he loses half his purse that'll be punishment enough. He put him to sleep and it was unsportsmanlike, but being put to sleep doesn't do any permanent damage (does it?), so it wasn't that horrible of a thing to do. Just don't do it again.


----------



## WouldLuv2FightU

LivingDedMan said:


> I think if he loses half his purse that'll be punishment enough. He put him to sleep and it was unsportsmanlike, but being put to sleep doesn't do any permanent damage (does it?), so it wasn't that horrible of a thing to do. Just don't do it again.


Well people act like you are more prone to die if the guy does it on purpose rather than the ref not seeing it in time. People get put to sleep almost every event. I don't understand this uproar. Yea Babalu was unsportsman like for not letting go, boo hoo. That's as far as it goes though. People need to stop bringing up death and brain damage and all that other stupid shit. People get KTFOed and put to sleep every single event. David Heath is no different.


----------



## moldy

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> Well people act like you are more prone to die if the guy does it on purpose rather than the ref not seeing it in time. People get put to sleep almost every event. I don't understand this uproar. Yea Babalu was unsportsman like for not letting go, boo hoo. That's as far as it goes though. People need to stop bringing up death and brain damage and all that other stupid shit. People get KTFOed and put to sleep every single event. David Heath is no different.


He wasn't that bad and he didn't hold on for half an hour it was like 3 secs. I gree 100 percent.


----------



## Kirkardo

This is retarded. Of course I would watch him fight again and I am betting I am speaking on 95 percent of everyone here. He will be fighting someone good next time like A.A or Werdum. 
Why wouldnt I watch. 
A.A suckered cruz and we watched him
How about heath Hearing sucking the chinese guy after the kiss. We watched him didnt we


----------



## Wayneraltman

VERY good point. I LOVED watching Hering pop Nakao for kissing him. They should have fined NAKAO for assault for the kiss. (I always thought that you kissed someone to wake them up NOT get put to sleep!!) Damn that was one of my favorite reactions. Crazy Horse is one of my favorite fighters because he did that. 
So Babalu gives up 25k because he put that jackass to sleep instead of letting him tap. I bet he makes twice that for the next fight he has because of all the hoopla. 
ATTN DANA WHITE: I will pay double for BABA's next fight if he gets twice as much to fight.


----------



## Davisty69

I would watch him again but I would want him to get his ass whooped. I understand that this kind of stuff can happen in an adrenaline and testosterone filled sport such as the UFC. I was pissed off at the way he admitted it without hesitation. That made him look like a prick.


----------



## asskicker

Wow 82-5 in favor of watching him here and 30-0 in favor of not watching him at your work. What are the odds of that?

Of course I would watch Babalu again. Hes one of my favorites. What he did wasnt even that big of a deal. It happens alot.


----------



## Wise

Though I think he deserved to be punished I would watch him again. He gets his fine, serves whatever other punishments that might be handed to him and then we move on. Cant black list a guy his whole life for a single brain fart in the cage.


----------



## Davisty69

Wise said:


> Though I think he deserved to be punished I would watch him again. He gets his fine, serves whatever other punishments that might be handed to him and then we move on. Cant black list a guy his whole life for a single brain fart in the cage.


I agree with you there. Plus, Babalu doesn't look like the brightest bulb in the box. I'm sure he doesn't think before he acts.


----------



## Arlovski_Fan

Babalu always brings it, and probably always will. Not sure how many of you saw the fight, but it was VERY entertaining, I would actually say imo it was a little more entertaining than GSP vs Kos (GG vs Couture ftw though, so good).


----------



## BloodJunkie

I would watch Babalu anytime!!! I guess that Heath will shut his mouth next time!!!! Maybe now he can find time to work out.......FAT DOUCHE


----------



## Wayneraltman

*May not get his chance*

I cannot believe that the UFC released him from his contract and Dana says he will never fight again for UFC.

“Renato “Babalu” Sobral was released from his contract due to the incidents that happened during his UFC 74 bout against David Heath. Dana White again talked about how it would of been worse had Babalu had an arm, leg or ankle. Still, Dana feels the fans turned on him and said he is out of his contract and out of the company due to his actions.” 

Dana White needs to calm down and read the forums, WE still support you BABALU!!!


----------



## bigaza

id still watch him fight, the guy is still a pretty good fighter


----------



## SnakePit

I have a feeling he'll go to elitexC or Bodog. It'd be great to see him in EliteXC. I mean, what kinda LHWs do they have? lol


----------



## TheNegation

Yup, that fight was one of the best beatdowns I have seen in ages. Excellent GnP and control by babalu and he finished him with an excellent submission.
If you don't wanna watch him, then no Gomi, Yamamoto, Andeerson Silva, BJ penn for you aswell.


----------



## SuzukS

That's crap that he was fired. He was a very entertaining fighter. His fight at UFC 74 was probably the most exciting after Couture/Gonzaga.


----------



## The Legend

I don't know if the UFC is too worried about it because they just had it as there top fight in UFC on demand but on topic I would watch him because I think he has some good fights out there left for him.


----------



## Wayneraltman

*Have NO Fear*

There is little doubt that Dana White will NOT be letting him fight somewhere else. His suspension will last for a few months, and Dana will bring him right back.

Just think of the PPV for the return of BABALU!!!! What will he do next? He is a warrior and anything is possible. 

By the way anyone that thinks this is a blackmark on MMA is going overboard. This stuff happens, and his next fight WILL NOT have the smack talking that this one had. :thumb02:


----------



## Biowza

Well it was rumored that he would be fighting Big Tim for being a 'bully' but that plan seems to have fallen through. He is coming off an impressive win over Mirko, and I personally would like to see him get tested against someone good. So, does anyone have any news on who Cheick Kongo is fighting next? If not, who would you want him to fight next?

Personally, I think they should put him in with Arlovski, maybe Heath Herring. I wouldn't want to see him go backwards in fights, as I think he has the potential to go pretty far in the HW division. He has been training at Big Bear with Juanito and Rampage and he seemed to have really been working on his ground game there. He has showed improvement in that department and I would love to see him fight again. Anyone have news?


----------



## kds13

I'd like to see him vs. anyone with a ground game. He says he has wrestling and a ground game, but I've never seen it. Time for Kongo to prove it or beat it back to the bottom of the ladder. 

He's a great striker, but he's not gonna be a top UFC HW if he isn't well rounded.


----------



## Aaronyman

I'd like to see him fight someone good w/o throwing intentional groin shots


----------



## Biowza

Aaronyman said:


> I'd like to see him fight someone good w/o throwing intentional groin shots


Wait, are you serious or not?


----------



## Damone

For some unexplained reason, I want to see a Kongo vs Herring fight. I may be going mad, but dammit, that shit sounds sort of interesting.


----------



## kds13

Damone said:


> For some unexplained reason, I want to see a Kongo vs Herring fight. I may be going mad, but dammit, that shit sounds sort of interesting.


When does Heath not go all out and try to be exciting, well, almost all the time? Hell, even Kerr's goofy ass couldn't make him boring for more than 5-6 minutes.


----------



## Damone

That's true, and him knee'ing Kerr to death was sort of a passing of the guard. From boring and roided up to pudgy and exciting. 

Herring's fight with Tom Erikson was really great, and easily my favorite Heath fight. I've pimped this before, and will forever pimp it.


----------



## Couchwarrior

Like I've said since the Cro Cop fight, I want Kongo against Herring.


----------



## CopperShark

I'd like Kongo vs Herring. I need the points in the Fantasy League. Lol.


----------



## Fedor>all

Damone said:


> For some unexplained reason, I want to see a Kongo vs Herring fight. I may be going mad, but dammit, that shit sounds sort of interesting.


I think Herring could whomp Kongo, personally.


----------



## Aaronyman

kongo would destroy heath herring....the fact that heath is still a top 30 ranked HW is just a testament to far mma still has to go.....


----------



## DCDIME

I like the idea of a Kongo-Herring fight...but what about Kongo-Gonzaga fight? There's a guy with ground game. I know it's too late but a Kongo-Monson fight would have been interesting as well.


----------



## kds13

Kongo, by having no real ground game, would get taken down by any competent HW. Cro Cop had relied on his left leg for too long. Herring would take him down and either submit him or finish him.


----------



## wukkadb

Aaronyman said:


> kongo would destroy heath herring....the fact that heath is still a top 30 ranked HW is just a testament to far mma still has to go.....


I totally disagree. I also think Gabriel Gonzaga would _destroy_ Kongo. Kongo is still vastly overrated IMO.


----------



## Biowza

wukkadb said:


> I totally disagree. I also think Gabriel Gonzaga would _destroy_ Kongo. Kongo is still vastly overrated IMO.


overrated??? by who? this is the only thread that I have seen made on him.


----------



## wukkadb

Biowza said:


> overrated??? by who? this is the only thread that I have seen made on him.


There were more threads on him right after beating CC, but what I really meant to say was, I still think Kongo is very one-dimensional. Heath Herring and Gonzaga would both take him down and either submit or GnP to victory.


----------



## Biowza

wukkadb said:


> There were more threads on him right after beating CC, but what I really meant to say was, I still think Kongo is very one-dimensional. Heath Herring and Gonzaga would both take him down and either submit or GnP to victory.


True, he is one-dimensional but it looks like he is working on it up at Big Bear. Luckily he is strong enough to power his way through most ground situations. I mean he took Mirko down a few times I think and he passed to side control (I think, haven't watched the fight in a while). So he has been improving quite a bit, he isn't very technically sound on the ground but he does enough to get back up 80% of the time. I think it will be interesting to see how much he has improved on the ground at his next fight.


----------



## Damone

Fedor>all said:


> I think Herring could whomp Kongo, personally.


If Heath uses his head, then I can see him beating Kongo. Herring likes to stand and trade, and to do so with Kongo, is sort of stupid.


----------



## iSHACKABUKU

Kongo Vs Gonzaga im gonna do something i rarely do and say 100% Gonzaga.


----------



## Damone

Gonzaga would sub Kongo with the quickness. That'd be an easy win for Gabe.

I'd actually like to see that tooling.


----------



## Cartheron

Chalk another one up for Herring Vs Kongo. That sounds mighty fun. Could go either way and it's probably down to Herring as to which way. If he stands and trades my guess is he'll get picked apart and lose a decision if he takes it down he _might_ get a TKO (would be a definate if knees to the head were allowed), maybe a sub with a figure four/hammerlock. 

Would be a good fight imo. Especially as both have had time off and should be in a good spot to get a nice training camp going. :thumbsup:


----------



## rufio.e0

I don't see Kongo getting much higher on the ladder. I'm sure they'll give him the winner of either Gonzaga vs Werdum or Mir vs Lesnar. I can't imagine Kongo beating any of those guys... If Carmelo Marrero (a LHW) can give him problems, any of the top heavyweights will. The only heavyweights he has a chance against are Vera, Sylvia, or Arlovski (if he ever gets his last fight on the contract)... and that's just because they're the only three that I think are likely to stand and trade with him. And none of those are easy fights for Kongo either.


----------



## streetpunk08

I agree with whoever said Kongo is overrated. I saw all the threads praising him and all my buddies are raving about him. He has no groundgame and no TD defense to keep it standing. And standing he hasn't showed the stopping power to make him all that dangerous on the feet. I would like to see him fight AA just to see Arlovski fight again he hasn't fought since April. Cheick and Heath would be a good matchup


----------



## yorT

Think Kongo vs Herring would be a good fight, but its not like Kongo is going to have the same ground game we have seen in his earlier fights. I am pretty sure he is training his grond game a lot now because of the lack of one. So to say he will get tooled on the ground is to assume he isn't training his ground game and i don't think he is that stupid.

I'd pick Kongo to win if they did fight.


----------



## Aaronyman

fedor is kind of in the same boat as jardine..both just came off huge victories against great opponents..yet neither has been mentioned as far next opponents...


----------



## rufio.e0

yorT said:


> Think Kongo vs Herring would be a good fight, but its not like Kongo is going to have the same ground game we have seen in his earlier fights. I am pretty sure he is training his grond game a lot now because of the lack of one. So to say he will get tooled on the ground is to assume he isn't training his ground game and i don't think he is that stupid.
> 
> I'd pick Kongo to win if they did fight.


I dunno a lot of stand-up fighters don't want to practice their ground game because they're uncomfortable there. Sounds like jumping to conclusions to bet on someone based on what little skill they've shown in an area and assume they'll have worked on it.


----------



## yorT

rufio.e0 said:


> I dunno a lot of stand-up fighters don't want to practice their ground game because they're uncomfortable there. Sounds like jumping to conclusions to bet on someone based on what little skill they've shown in an area and assume they'll have worked on it.


and it is jumping to conclusions to think that he won't work on his ground game. Why don't you think he wouldn't work on his ground game? That just sounds really stupid, to think he won't work the ground game cause he doesn't feel comfortable?


----------



## Biowza

yorT said:


> and it is jumping to conclusions to think that he won't work on his ground game. Why don't you think he wouldn't work on his ground game? That just sounds really stupid, to think he won't work the ground game cause he doesn't feel comfortable?


Yeah not to mention that he is training at Big Bear with Juanito Ibarra and Rampage, that seems to be a great camp so I am pretty sure he would have improved quite a lot since UFC 75 (Early September). I personally think Kongo is underrated, he has never been submitted or pounded out on the ground and 80% of the time he gets back to his feet. It's not like he is ever held down for a long period of time, the guy is strong, and uses it well.


----------



## yorT

Biowza said:


> Yeah not to mention that he is training at Big Bear with Juanito Ibarra and Rampage, that seems to be a great camp so I am pretty sure he would have improved quite a lot since UFC 75 (Early September). I personally think Kongo is underrated, he has never been submitted or pounded out on the ground and 80% of the time he gets back to his feet. It's not like he is ever held down for a long period of time, the guy is strong, and uses it well.


Good point, i never knew he never been finished on the ground. For someone with NO ground game that seems pretty good. I also think he is very underrated, after that silva fight he had thats when i noticed he was very talented at striking.


----------



## davidm724

Biowza said:


> Well it was rumored that he would be fighting Big Tim for being a 'bully' but that plan seems to have fallen through. He is coming off an impressive win over Mirko, and I personally would like to see him get tested against someone good. So, does anyone have any news on who Cheick Kongo is fighting next? If not, who would you want him to fight next?
> 
> Personally, I think they should put him in with Arlovski, maybe Heath Herring. I wouldn't want to see him go backwards in fights, as I think he has the potential to go pretty far in the HW division. He has been training at Big Bear with Juanito and Rampage and he seemed to have really been working on his ground game there. He has showed improvement in that department and I would love to see him fight again. Anyone have news?


He's adopting the nickname, "Cheik-ovsky's Nutcracker" Kongo.


----------



## MMAmatt

lol.

i think kongo would have his hands full with gonzaga but honestly i dont think gonzaga would last a round standing.


----------



## Ares

I don't think so either, because GG would take it to the ground and sub him.


----------



## Couchwarrior

I agree that Kongo vs Gonzaga would be too one sided. Gonzaga would just take him down, smash his face in with elbows and then submit him, I think. That's why I would prefer Kongo vs Herring, because Herring would probably stand with him and it would be a good war.


----------



## yorT

Ares said:


> I don't think so either, because GG would take it to the ground and sub him.


Why didn't gg just take cro cop to the ground and sub him. I see where your coming from but it looks like gonzaga trust his stand up so i think he might stand with kongo.


----------



## Couchwarrior

yorT said:


> Why didn't gg just take cro cop to the ground and sub him.


He took him to the ground at the first opportunity, but Herb Dean stood them up for reasons that nobody else understood.


----------



## swpthleg

i'd watch kongo v gonzaga if gonzaga takes him down right away the ref will just stand them back up:confused02:


----------



## joppp

Damone said:


> That's true, and him knee'ing Kerr to death was sort of a passing of the guard. From boring and roided up to pudgy and exciting.
> 
> Herring's fight with Tom Erikson was really great, and easily my favorite Heath fight. I've pimped this before, and will forever pimp it.


I LOVE it when Herring go crazy after too much lay and pray and start screaming (in the Tom Erkson fight) and bashing his chest. That's how a fighter should feel about geting layn'prayed....


----------



## 941Fighter

Damone said:


> For some unexplained reason, I want to see a Kongo vs Herring fight. I may be going mad, but dammit, that shit sounds sort of interesting.


i agree cheick is boy and would love to see 2 explosive fighter go at it


----------



## joey__stalin

Impressive win over Mirko? He kneed him in the groin at least 3 times... and some possible intention in them as well... hardly impressive...


----------



## Biowza

joey__stalin said:


> Impressive win over Mirko? He kneed him in the groin at least 3 times... and some possible intention in them as well... hardly impressive...


Sigh, I don't know where to begin with this. First off, it was an accidental knee due to his height and the difficulty he had to reach the lower parts of Mirko's body. Don't just assume he did it on purpose because there is absolutely no evidence to support that. Secondly, Mirko obviously wasn't hurt at all from those knees because Big John gave him as much time as possible to feel better, of which Mirko barely used a minute of, to me that means that he was fine. Kongo dominated the second and third rounds of that fight, neutralising effectivly Mirko's only weapons (LHK, ability to stalk). He took Crocop down, pounded him, and came out with an impressive win. 

-repped


----------



## Aaronyman

Biowza said:


> Sigh, I don't know where to begin with this. First off, it was an accidental knee due to his height and the difficulty he had to reach the lower parts of Mirko's body. Don't just assume he did it on purpose because there is absolutely no evidence to support that. Secondly, Mirko obviously wasn't hurt at all from those knees because Big John gave him as much time as possible to feel better, of which Mirko barely used a minute of, to me that means that he was fine. Kongo dominated the second and third rounds of that fight, neutralising effectivly Mirko's only weapons (LHK, ability to stalk). He took Crocop down, pounded him, and came out with an impressive win.
> 
> -repped


while I agree w/ you that the knee's to the balls probably didn't affect the outcome...

their were a total of 5 groin shots in the fight....2 in the 2nd round and 3 in the 3rd round...and all were in succession ...i'm sorry but when you knee someone in the balls, you know you did, and I find it hard to believe in the 3rd round, all 3 of those that were done in sequence (one after big john said STOP), that their wasn't some intent.


----------



## Biowza

I don't think there were that many groin shots, Mirko reacted to about two instances.


----------



## Aaronyman

Biowza said:


> I don't think there were that many groin shots, Mirko reacted to about two instances.


well you can either take my word for it, or you can rewatch the fight to find it out....

kongo nailed him twice in round two, and Goldie mentioned that in the commentary, and you can clearly see Mirko's face after them was disgruntled...

in the third round, their was 3 in the flurry that led to the stoppage by big john....


----------



## yorT

Aaronyman said:


> while I agree w/ you that the knee's to the balls probably didn't affect the outcome...
> 
> their were a total of 5 groin shots in the fight....2 in the 2nd round and 3 in the 3rd round...and all were in succession ...i'm sorry but when you knee someone in the balls, you know you did, and I find it hard to believe in the 3rd round, all 3 of those that were done in sequence (one after big john said STOP), that their wasn't some intent.


if there were that many kongo would have been deducted points. He wasn't deducted points and quit taking away from kongo's impressive win, cro cop had nothing for him.


----------



## 941Fighter

Aaronyman said:


> well you can either take my word for it, or you can rewatch the fight to find it out....
> 
> kongo nailed him twice in round two, and Goldie mentioned that in the commentary, and you can clearly see Mirko's face after them was disgruntled...
> 
> in the third round, their was 3 in the flurry that led to the stoppage by big john....



though i completely understand where your coming from the dude has no prior history of him doing something like that so i doubt he'll start now. i've watched the fight a number of times and i've only seen 3 non where intention. the reason why you may think there was a lot is maybe because kongo was aiming and hitting a pressure point in that general area and when hit can cause a lot of pain!


----------



## Biowza

The knees are a non issue though, Mirko was given as much time as he needed and he said that he was ready in like one minute.


----------



## Biowza

*2008 = best year for UFC?*

Anyone else feeling this? I mean, the first two PPV's the UFC have put out have been AWESOME. UFC 80, and 81 have been really, really good shows. And no dull shows look to be looming in on the horizon.

UFC 82
Henderson vs Silva <--dream match
Kongo vs Herring 
Tanner vs Okami
Arlovski vs Obrien
Leben vs Sakara ...etc

UFC 83
Serra vs GSP
Franklin vs Lutter
Mark Bocek vs Mac Danzig
J-Mac vs Doerkson ...etc

DAMN, along with this we've got an awesome season of TUF with great coaches which will no doubt be hilarious (along with getting a boost of new fighters @ 185), an awesome title fight in Jackson vs Griffin, and a new HW champion in Nogueira.

This year is shaping up to be one of (if not the) best in UFC history.

Agree?


----------



## MalkyBoy

Indeed it has been a good one so far altho the UFN was horrid, however UFC 80 was brilliant, 81 not as good as 80 but still really good. The LW, HW, MW and WW titles have been or will be up for grabs within the first four months which is a really good thing too. 

This could be the UFC's biggest year to date no doubt I await with bated breath for more events.


----------



## ToeZup

I agree. I think this year was a great year in the UFC.
Great lightweight division action, the addition of Pride fighters and a lot of tough competition made for some great moments this year.
08' should be one heck of a year for the UFC and MMA in general.


----------



## e-thug

I would bet money that MMA in 08' could be considered the best year in MMA ever. The LW division is finally moving along hear, the WW and LHW division is as deep as ever...we have a dream MW matchup and Nog is the HW champ. 

We also have WEC looking very promising aswell.


----------



## LeeM

I agree, I think it will be a great year. Shame i'll have to start paying for PPVs from summer time...damn Setanta!


----------



## MalkyBoy

LeeM said:


> I agree, I think it will be a great year. Shame i'll have to start paying for PPVs from summer time...damn Setanta!


I reckon they will be free apart from the whole monthly subscription thing.


----------



## Biowza

*Cheick Kongo denies Crocop statement*

I found this while browsing through his myspace page. Now, its in French and I guess I could translate the whole thing word for word if you want. Here is my rough transation of each paragraph.

-I deny totally what I said in relation to CC leaving

-I was never really involved in the source that posted what I alledgedly "said" although I did an interview for them in jan 2008 through my myspace account.

-I have always been against steroid useage and maintain that there should be extensive testing.

-I have never made these sorts of public statements and I have a profound respect for Mirko Crocop.

-After my victory at UFC 75, I was attacked by a lot of internet users who were his [Mirko] fans. My myspace page was hacked and later a second time it worked. They began to lie and make unfounded claims, which I am sad for since I have always kept my moral integrity.

-I am now in Las Vegas, away from the rumours so I can concentrate on my fight with Heath Herring.

-I'd like to thank my family...etc

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=156439878&blogID=358690390

Thats the link for anyone who speaks french and would want to correct me on my rough translation.

Discuss...


----------



## El_Padre

No need to correct your translation, it's OK :thumbsup:

Well, on one hand, (and I'm not defending Kongo because we're both French), It MIGHT be possible that someone hacked his Myspace (it's been done before). So I give him credit for the explaination.

On the other hand, if he really said that, maybe he found out that it went totally out of control and tried to find a way to apologize.

I do believe him when he says that he respects CC but still, trash talking has always been part of the game. Even if I don't like that too much, it will eventually cool off and we'll all forget about that someday.

The best thing, IMO is to let the fists, elbows, knees, etc do the talking in the cage, the rest is not so important


----------



## Biowza

Well yeah on the face of it it is sort of hard to believe. But people hacking myspace accounts is certainly not unheard of, let alone relativly high profile accounts. He does seem pretty sincere with this blog entry, but it is true that it is a possibility that he actually did say it then felt bad that he did. But I don't really see him going to the trouble of getting caught in a web of lies for something rather trivial. 

Either way, this brings doubt into what he said which I guess is a good thing.


----------



## AmRiT

I didn't think he said it either, he seems like a guy that doesn't talk trash


----------



## All_In

I wouldn't think he would say that either. Condsidering it doesn't look like "meat and potatoes" got him to where he is either. Just sayin, the dude is as shredded as they come. It's just an odd thing a hacker would choose to say had they broken into his myspace account...


----------



## bigdog89

OMG I was the one who pointed out that interview to him sweet ....i know i sound like a geek right now but he said that he had no idea about any statements about cro cop about the whole cro cop leaving for DREAM and how he had the utmost respect for cro cop...now i wish id saved that convo...shit...


----------



## bigdog89

All_In_GSP said:


> I wouldn't think he would say that either. Condsidering it doesn't look like "meat and potatoes" got him to where he is either. Just sayin, the dude is as shredded as they come. It's just an odd thing a hacker would choose to say had they broken into his myspace account...


He might have started out using but its possible he has some really good genes I mean i know guys that dont even lift and have almost an 8 pack


----------



## Green Scape

I actually think he said it, just didn't mean it _that _much. Enough for internet users to cause him so much turmoil. He's a star now, I'm sure now he'll realize even the slightest statement can be taken out of context or taken overly seriously by fans.

Ever tell a racist joke that offended someone? You didn't mean to, didn't think much about it other than having the intention of getting a few laughs. I think that's the case here.


----------



## bigdog89

Green Scape said:


> I actually think he said it, just didn't mean it _that _much. Enough for internet users to cause him so much turmoil. He's a star now, I'm sure now he'll realize even the slightest statement can be taken out of context or taken overly seriously by fans.
> 
> Ever tell a racist joke that offended someone? You didn't mean to, didn't think much about it other than having the intention of getting a few laughs. I think that's the case here.


He said he hadnt even heard of those statements until i asked him about them...Like totally clueless about them kidna thing


----------



## ToeZup

Thanks for that info man. I didn't think he would say that. He seems like a classy guy. +rep for saving his rep.


----------



## coldcall420

they both look like they have done their fair share of juice and either way i really dont see kongo creating another lie so he gets wrapped up in more drama, i agree with the other dude who said that. Both look like juice heads though....:confused02:


----------



## bigdog89

ToeZup said:


> Thanks for that info man. I didn't think he would say that. He seems like a classy guy. +rep for saving his rep.


No prob to be totally serious i wrote him telling him id lost respect for him saying that and yea...


i dont get the +rep thing or points thing on here...


----------



## bigdog89

coldcall420 said:


> they both look like they have done their fair share of juice and either way i really dont see kongo creating another lie so he gets wrapped up in more drama, i agree with the other dude who said that. Both look like juice heads though....:confused02:


How are you going to say that cro cop looks like a juice head his physique is even less impressive than coutures but noone calls him one so why dont you shut it with that shit


----------



## JIKI

City: Paris - Miami
State: California

lol


----------



## coldcall420

yo big dog dont get bit......u got an opinion post it, at diff times in their careers they looked like they were on juice, plus you appear new to the forum get your fuckin facts straight. there was a thread comparing old pics of cro cop to him latley and the overwhelming opinion on the forum was that he was on juice. Get you facts together before you embarress yourself again. UNDERSTANDING: is what allows people like me to tolerate idiots like you big dog....woof woof:thumb02: forum beware we got a cro cop nuthugger, by the way if he juices or not Im a fan


----------



## ToeZup

bigdog89 said:


> ..i dont get the +rep thing or points thing on here...


Rep is given by other members. You get positive rep when you help people or just show a great attitude toward things, stuff like that. If you just come here saying CroCop sucks he looked like shit last night or something like that, people will give you negative rep. Your reputation bar pretty much gives other users an idea of what your reputation is around here.

Points are for betting. It's like fake money.
Just go to the vBookie section of this forum and place bets on fights.


----------



## bigdog89

coldcall420 said:


> yo big dog dont get bit......u got an opinion post it, at diff times in their careers they looked like they were on juice, plus you appear new to the forum get your fuckin facts straight. there was a thread comparing old pics of cro cop to him latley and the overwhelming opinion on the forum was that he was on juice. Get you facts together before you embarress yourself again. UNDERSTANDING: is what allows people like me to tolerate idiots like you big dog....woof woof:thumb02: forum beware we got a cro cop nuthugger, by the way if he juices or not Im a fan


Idiots ? first off all i was saying is dont accuse someone who you have no proof thats what he did.
Kongo im not going to deny looks like he just might but the fact is its possible to be ripped and still not be juicing .Hell barnett doesnt even come close to being ripped and he got his UFC HW title taken away cus he was busted for it..Now this might be me but why dont you try and think about this looks dont mean someones juicing hence why i was using couture as an example.Hes ripped at 45 and still has never juiced.All im saying is dont judge by looks


----------



## bigdog89

ToeZup said:


> Rep is given by other members. You get positive rep when you help people or just show a great attitude toward things, stuff like that. If you just come here saying CroCop sucks he looked like shit last night or something like that, people will give you negative rep. Your reputation bar pretty much gives other users an idea of what your reputation is around here.
> 
> Points are for betting. It's like fake money.
> Just go to the vBookie section of this forum and place bets on fights.


thanks man im new to the forum but ive been into mma before tuf so yea


----------



## BrFighter07

i dont really know whether to believe this or not but i do believe he is a classy guy and i happy to hear that he did not do something like that


----------



## coldcall420

no worries BigDog, if you go back to right about Crocop losin to Kongo there a ton of threads and they show a distinct difference between crocop of the past and the present.....point being that opinion of them both lookin like they juiced came from there. you are right with your logic as appled to randy and would agree with that statement lookin at crocop now but if you saw this thread and it contained side by side pics of crocop and im tellin you, he def looked like he was on the sauce....either way im tossin you some rep points...peace:thumbsup:


----------



## yorT

So where are all these people that wanted kongo crucified for a statement that wasn't true?


----------



## jasvll

coldcall420 said:


> no worries BigDog, if you go back to right about Crocop losin to Kongo there a ton of threads and they show a distinct difference between crocop of the past and the present.....point being that opinion of them both lookin like they juiced came from there. you are right with your logic as appled to randy and would agree with that statement lookin at crocop now but if you saw this thread and it contained side by side pics of crocop and im tellin you, he def looked like he was on the sauce....either way im tossin you some rep points...peace:thumbsup:


 Did any of these people consider the possibility that the cause for a size difference could simply be lack of training brought on by a loss of motivation and mental focus?

Seriously, a body change doesn't imply steroid usage, regardless of how many people in your thread jumped to that conclusion.


----------



## bigdog89

jasvll said:


> Did any of these people consider the possibility that the cause for a size difference could simply be lack of training brought on by a loss of motivation and mental focus?
> 
> Seriously, a body change doesn't imply steroid usage, regardless of how many people in your thread jumped to that conclusion.


Im glad someone else thinks that besides me
+rep


----------



## NOLA_JACK

I'm a bit cloudy on this whole thing, when did he allegedly say all of this to CC? I've heard the bit about roids, meat and potatoes, etc. but I never actually read WHERE he said it.


----------



## bigdog89

NOLA_JACK said:


> I'm a bit cloudy on this whole thing, when did he allegedly say all of this to CC? I've heard the bit about roids, meat and potatoes, etc. but I never actually read WHERE he said it.


mmaontap.com interview.


----------



## Biowza

yorT said:


> So where are all these people that wanted kongo crucified for a statement that wasn't true?


I was thinking exactly the same thing...


----------



## BongHitz420

"+rep for saving his rep"

thanks to the poster for the info


----------



## SideWays40

coldcall420 said:


> yo big dog dont get bit......u got an opinion post it, at diff times in their careers they looked like they were on juice, plus you appear new to the forum get your fuckin facts straight. there was a thread comparing old pics of cro cop to him latley and the overwhelming opinion on the forum was that he was on juice. Get you facts together before you embarress yourself again. UNDERSTANDING: is what allows people like me to tolerate idiots like you big dog....woof woof:thumb02: forum beware we got a cro cop nuthugger, by the way if he juices or not Im a fan





Are we talking about the thread that had CroCop in 2 totally different positions?? if thats the case (and thats if) you my sir are not 2 bright.


----------



## Freelancer

yorT said:


> So where are all these people that wanted kongo crucified for a statement that wasn't true?


I didn't want him crucified, although I didn't like his statement. He seemed somewhat arrogant in his interviews so, for me, it was easily to belive he has said that. And all of this could be a trick, maybe he did say it, maybe he didn't. I'm thinkin whether someone should give this info to cro cop.


----------



## Biowza

*What happens if Machida loses?*

I was reading an old thread about Machida/Ortiz and someone brought up a good point. What happens if Machida loses to Ortiz at UFC 84? Now, this thread isn't for me to talk about Machida's overratedness on this forum, nor is it a thread for people to say "HUR, but Machida won't lose, HUR". I'm just interested in people's opinions on what would happen to him if he were to lose to Ortiz. Also, what do you think would happen to Ortiz if he were to beat Machida at UFC 84? 

Let me clarify, I don't want people to say "But he won't lose" or "Won't happen" or any such thing. It is discussing a hypothetical situation whereby Machida loses to Ortiz. If Machida loses, and loses badly I see him dropping off the radar a bit and fighting on an undercard or two. However if he loses a close decision he'll probably stay on the main card and fight similar competition to Nakamura/Sokky (not those specific fighters, but people on the same level). 

So what do you guys think would happen if he loses?


----------



## TheNegation

If tito wins I still don't see him staying.
Machida would probably fight like the loser of Rashad-Chuck, or maybe Shogun when he returns, Boetsch or Hammil. I really have no idea, but I doubt he get relegated to the pre-lims or anything.


----------



## Stapler

The guys undefeated in the UFC with solid wins, a loss to Tito wouldn't send him that far back. A fight with Shogun would be cool though, both would be coming off losses if this scenario occured.

Now Tito, a win over Machida would help him out, Machidas getting alot of hype and being the first man to beat him would make his cash benefits go up and possibly put him into title contention. I actually would see him staying with the UFC if that happened. Well, actually it depends how he beat him.


----------



## Negative1

If Tito really layed a hurtin on Machida, I wouldn't see Machida drop too far off the radar, I mean the guy is a good fighter with a solid record, he's not the most exciting but fans would still appreciate seeing his face.

I think he would fight a non ranked 205er like Hammil or Boetsch like TheNeg suggested.


----------



## ROCKBASS03

Simple......They will put a 1 in the L column. He will fight again against someone that was mentioned by others. It will put him back to needing to get another 3 victories in a row or so for a title show instead of 1 or 2 more wins.

For Tito? Well, it would at least show he still has something left. Tito would use that as a bargaining chip for his new contract thinking he deserves a lot more. If Tito loses....he will go to a lesser organization and be top dog since he can't hack it in the UFC any more:dunno:


----------



## IronMan

You can stick a fork in Tito Ortiz. He's done.

I'm sad to say that I expect him to go the way of the dodo (or at least the way of Ken Shamrock) and fight in smaller shows (though probably for more money).

I think that's what will happen even if Tito destroys Machida the way he did Evan Tanner. That said, I don't think it will happen.

However, if Machida does lose, I think that Thiago Silva will be very happy, and he should be. After all, then he's the only really streaking LHW. While he knows he probably won't get the title shot right away, I can't help but feel that without Machida, he's a much more legitimate contender (because Machida has remained undefeated despite fighting Sokoudjou, who many thought was the future of MMA).


----------



## DropKick

I would kind of like to see Tito win this fight because I think it would increase the likeliness that he would stay in the UFC. I think there are some interesting fights for him still like Tito vs. Shogun, Tito vs. Silva 2 or Tito vs. Jardine.

A win over Machida would probably put Tito right back into the contender mix. As for Machida, I don't think a loss to Tito would set him back that far. Unless Tito really dominated him and finished him in the first or second round. I don't think that will happen though. I could see Tito grinding out a decision however.


----------



## Uchaaa

Then the myth around machida will be broken. I hope this will not happen.


----------



## FlawlessFighter

what is the myth around Machida?

If Machida loses he will have to win 8 str8 to get a title shot.

If Tito wins or loses he still gone from the UFC


----------



## BCooper

We will be stuck with Tito Ortiz longer instead of just having him sink into oblivion. Then the plagues and natural disasters will happen and armageddon will begin. Before you go to sleep, pray to your god that Machida wins.

The funny thing is, Dana is really banking on Machida to destroy Ortiz so he won't look like such a dick for the adversity. And I think Ortiz is lame enough to actually come out and win just for that reason.


----------



## Robb2140

If Machida loses then he will probably have to work his way back up the ladder like anybody else that loses, He is 4-0 in the UFC and 12-0 overall, so he would still have a 750% win percentage in the UFC, which is better than alot of guys who are in contention ATM. You would also have to factor in what the other LHW contenders do in thier upcoming fights to see where he stands. An immediate Title shot would definetly be out of the question, but with a couple of wins and some other guys losing then he would probably be back in the Title picture.

It's not like Tito is a can or some no-name fighter, he is a former champ with a win over the current #1 contender as well as a draw with Rashad who is also a top contender.

If Tito wins, what happens to him will be up to him. He isn't getting a title shot unless he signs a contract, but if he beats Machida and signs a multi-fight deal than he will definetly be on the short list of Title Contenders. Even though Dana doesn't like Tito, Zuffa knows that Tito fighting for a belt = big PPV buys, so he might have to win one more or they would give him an immediate shot, this also depends on what happens to other fighters.


----------



## wukkadb

Machida won't lose. /thread


----------



## Damone

If Machida loses, then he faces the loser of Liddell vs Evans.


----------



## The Legend

BCooper said:


> The funny thing is, Dana is really banking on Machida to destroy Ortiz so he won't look like such a dick for the adversity. And I think Ortiz is lame enough to actually come out and win just for that reason.


Ok I don't understand this you think Tito wants to win just to get to Dana? Don't you think Tito would want to win to make more $$ and possibly get into title contention if he were to stay with the UFC?

P.S. I do agree Dana is a motivator for him but it isn't the only reason why he would want to win the fight.


----------



## PrideFan123

If Machida losses, he'll have to make his way back up the ladder like everyone else. Isn't this Tito's last fight? Tito by unanimous decision.


----------



## Manx

I think if Machida loses, he still doesn't fall far. The UFC's LHW divsion is quite stacked and he'll still be pitted against another top contender even with a loss...

If Ortiz wins, I think he still won't stay. His head and heart seems to be too involved in business ventures outside of the cage and White has treated him like shit...
I can imagine Ortiz taking the mic away from Joe Rogan and becoming all emotional as he tells the fans he loves them and that the octagon will always be his house...After which he gives Dana White a double flip-off and retires...


----------



## looney liam

if machida loses the way i expect he will (to lay n pray tactics), then there will be a barrage of 'machida is overrated' topics on the front page. it won't affect him too much in the title hunt though, the lhw division is pretty messed up in terms of title contenders. (pretty much everyone has lost recently, or not fought big enough names)


tito will leave the ufc with his biggest win in years, he may even breach the top 10. i doubt he'll stay in the ufc as he's clearly stated that this is his last fight with them. he'll probably move on to other organisations and fight when he's a little low on cash.


----------



## Arlovski_Fan

If Tito wins very well, I see him signing back with the UFC. He would probably get more money, assuming its an entertaining fight/beat down. 
For Machida, I honestly think Dana wants him to lose due to Machida not being a draw. This would be an excuse to have him fight on undercards again, and its probably what Dana is somewhat hoping for. Personally thats fine by me as I would much rather see other people (i.e. Thiago Silva).


----------



## GodlyMoose

wukkadb said:


> Machida won't lose. /thread


This.


----------



## kamikaze145

I think even if he does lose that he wont drop too far, he will definately still be on the main card until he loses at least one more. The UFC will just have to find someone else to fight the winner of Forrest/Quinton and Machida will probably end up with the either Rashad or Chuck.


----------



## ZeroPRIDE

wukkadb said:


> Machida won't lose. /thread


i agree here Machida wont lose, Case closed. Machida is the God of the MMA world everyone knows that


----------



## Cowmilker

I like Tito Ortiz so if he wins I would be happy. He would leave with a win and over a really good fighter. I think the odds are against him to win, but he could. Machida is a good fighter, but Tito has a lot of experience. If Lyoto loses it will set him back a little but probably not too much. It's not like he will be getting a title shot soon anyway, the next season of TUF has to go through before we even see Rampage vs. Forrest.


----------



## capt_america

If machida loses it will be his 1st loss in the UFC and also hes 1st loss in his career.. i think that will really hurt him.. losing to a former champ is not that bad.


----------



## xeberus

We would welcome back tito to the top 10 205lbs in the world. He would likely sign another contract with the UFC, basically he would become hot shit, and be on the list "due for a title shot". While we're talking "what ifs" what if forrest beats rampage? Forrest would for sure be looking to avenge his close controversial loss to tito.. I see tito being back in business if he beats machida and maybe someone else after.


----------



## cdtcpl

2 big things would change is Machida loses. 
1) Machida may get under-carded until he gets a win or 2. The shows are so big now that unless you seem to be on a win streak or have a fued it is hard to get on the main card. Machida is an awesome fighter and I would hate to see this happen to him.
2) Everyone else would have a playbook on how to beat Machida. This is assuming that it isn't a 1 punch KO, which I am not really expecting from Tito, but hey it could happen.

But lets take the most likely way for Tito to win, a round 1 take down and quick GnP session, a la Forrest vs Tito. No one is going to take anything away from Machida for losing this way. Tito has finished much bigger names this way (none current, but you get the point). When Tito is good and comes hard all you can really try to do is like Forrest and survive, no one will blame him if he gets overwhelmend by a man who has been doing this for years. At the end of the day Machida gets a loss, goes back to training, and comes out and beats the next guy so hard Tito thanks the stars that he got the win instead of the beating.

And this is coming from a Tito fan.


----------



## Liddellianenko

HUR, but Machida won't lose, HUR


----------



## tasshal

Not that Tito is weak, but his mind isn't in competitive mma anymore, so he will show up undertrained imo. If Lyoto doesn't underestimate him , I see a first round KO and a titleshot for Machida


----------



## e-thug

Well if Machida loses....which again I find very hard to believe.....then he still wont fall off the radar. Losing to Ortiz is still considered acceptable, and wit the LHW division not having many fighters on winning streaks (accept Thiago Silva) its not hard to get back in the mix with a win.

It would be real great for Ortiz as he could use that wit contract negotiations with other organizations...fights wit Babalu and Kimbo would be huge pay days for Mr. Ortiz.


----------



## Rubiness

He seems like one of those guys that has everything to lose and nothing to gain. I mean he keeps winning but they won't give him a shot. But if he loses it seems like he has so much to lose and they'll make him work his way up for a long time again.


----------



## Tommy08

They will most likely try to give Machida some wins so they can give him a title shot. New faces fighting the champ is always good, but the LHW is moving very slow right now, so there is room here to juggle different matches. 

If they are not so much banking on Machida, or another fighter comes along, they'll match Machida with Jardine.


----------



## Biowza

*UFC Production changes*

I was thinking about this for a while and thought it may be interesting enough to ask. What would you change, production wise, in the UFC? 

Personally, I would like to see:

-More of an effort into the enterances, not neccesarily a ramp, but maybe something like improved lighting, or lasers or something. Something to make huge fights even bigger. I'm still undecided about the concept of a stage, at first I liked the idea, but now I'm starting to like the 'tunnel enterance' that they currently use.

-A third commentator. I think the UFC needs to do what they use to do with Randy, except do it with every fight. Get a third guy in there, get a fighter like Kenny Florian or Frank Mir. At the moment, Joe is carrying pretty much all of the actual knowledge and I think it would be interesting to see a different perspective on things.

-Metric system. This isn't really a big deal, but I'd like to see the UFC put the weight and height in SI units, I understand that its mostly an American audience, but it can't hhurt to just put these things in brackets.

So anyway, what do you want to see the UFC improve on production wise?


----------



## MalkyBoy

I like the third commentator option with a guy who is well versed in striking cos Joe knows all the jitz.


----------



## Xerxes

Fire Goldberg.


----------



## XitUp

Get rid of the gladiator.


----------



## Warchild

Make the ring girls stop blowing kisses every time there's a camera in their vicinity. Secondly, I don't know how keen I am to the whole stage and lights but I do think perhaps a big screen that shows their highlights would be cool to have while they are making their entrance.


----------



## TheNegation

******* Proper Pro-wrestling style entrances, seriously. What they have now sucks ass.

Get rid of the Gladiator intro.

More Goldberg, more oten.


----------



## kilik

I would like to see a third commentator. FLorian or Mir would be great as they both have decent experience.


----------



## pauly_j

Goldberg, Mauro and Quadros as commentators.
Trap doors that release a tiger 10 seconds before the end of each round.
More cowbell?


----------



## Warchild

pauly_j said:


> More cowbell?


That's a given..... I got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell.


----------



## 69nites

TheNegation said:


> ******* Proper Pro-wrestling style entrances, seriously. What they have now sucks ass.
> 
> Get rid of the Gladiator intro.
> 
> More Goldberg, more oten.


I think I see what you did here


----------



## MJB23

I'd like to see the entrances done like Pride did them.


----------



## 69nites

I like my jesus to have eagles wings and singing lead vocals for lynard skynard and I'm in the front row just hammered drunk.

but in all seriousness the entrances are good how they are now.


----------



## z-iron

First and foremost, no gladiator theme. 

Fire Goldberg or get another announcer in there.

Bigger entrances - they don't have to be the size of PRIDE's, but something along the lines of UFC 40: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6KL1kV7yp4
Fast forward to 1:55. Look at that camera angle... does that not get you pumped up for the fight? 

Change the font and colour scheme for the UFC round times. 

Change the colour of the canvas. It just doesn't look right.


----------



## Meshuggeth

Bas and Mauro. 

edit: Bas is doing great with DREAM


----------



## elardo

I agree with ditching the gladiator and the lame meathead sounding psuedo metal song. I would like a 3rd commentator, but I think it would be interesting to change him up every event. Florian was great, have him come back and change it up with others. I'd like to hear the likes of Dan Henderson and other mma veterans give their view of the fights. That was always interesting to me when they had guest commentators in Pride. Big flashy entrances are bad, remember Chuck Liddell's when he fought Couture the first time? That was embarassing. Some idiotic juggalo themed clown and Vanilla Ice...gross.


----------



## ean6789

Kinda got some of the same thoughts as you guys but ill put it all together

Entrances- Just cap the time and let the guys throw a lil theatrics out there Genki Sudo style

Camera-Stop cutting to the fuckin ring girls. I dont need to see dead behind the eyes Arianny and Edith blow a kiss and then stare into the camera for 30 seconds 5 times a night every event

3rd Commentator- Not a permanent one, have a couple ppl rotate filling this position to mix it up a bit and get an intelligent convo going on between him and Rogan

No Statistics- They just started doing this and i really don't like it during the commentary. It gets in the way of the actual fight and tracks things that we can already interpret just by watching it. Its too subjective of a thing to track like trying to calculate damage.


----------



## Suvaco

The only thing I think they should fix is the entrances. Other than that the UFC's production value is top notch. I mean, watching Affliction's attempt was sickening. The fights made up for it, but still.


----------



## swpthleg

ean6789 said:


> Kinda got some of the same thoughts as you guys but ill put it all together
> 
> Entrances- Just cap the time and let the guys throw a lil theatrics out there Genki Sudo style
> 
> Camera-Stop cutting to the fuckin ring girls. I dont need to see dead behind the eyes Arianny and Edith blow a kiss and then stare into the camera for 30 seconds 5 times a night every event
> 
> 3rd Commentator- Not a permanent one, have a couple ppl rotate filling this position to mix it up a bit and get an intelligent convo going on between him and Rogan
> 
> No Statistics- They just started doing this and i really don't like it during the commentary. It gets in the way of the actual fight and tracks things that we can already interpret just by watching it. Its too subjective of a thing to track like trying to calculate damage.



Have you guys noticed that the camera usually only cuts to Arianny and Edith is riding the bench lmao.


----------



## Bonnar426

Get rid of the Gladiator. 

I really don't care to see lasers, moving ramps, pyro technics, and fireworks just because the fighter is entering the octagon.  My philosphy is get them in as quickly as possible so the damn match will start. 

Although I do think they should have a giant screen like PRIDE did back in the day. 

Also, I would make Kenny Florian a commentator along with Joe Rogan and Mike Goldberg.


----------



## Sinister

Better graphics for when the display the Tale of the Tape and things like that, what they have now is decent but I feel they could do a lot better. Taking some lessons from the WWE production team would be a great idea, not to make it more like the WWE, but the WWE has the greatest production value out of any sporting organization.

I like the tunnel entrance, it's not overdoing it, looks classy, and makes the fighters come off as regular guys rather than over the top superstars.

New entrance tunes for each event. I have a feeling when the UFC was in the dark ages, they signed a 20 year deal for the song in the opening 

I would love to see a third commentator, but not a current fighter within the UFC or WEC. Arorus or whatever from EXC would fit in very well with these guys.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

MalkyBoy said:


> I like the third commentator option with a guy who is well versed in striking cos Joe knows all the jitz.





> Joe began practicing martial arts at the age of 13. Within two years, the Boston native earned a black belt and soon became the Massachusetts full contact Tae Kwon Do champion for four consecutive years. By the age of 19, Rogan won the US Open Tae Kwon Do Championship, and in true Joe Rogan fashion, the lightweight champion went on to beat both the middle and heavyweight title-holders to obtain the Grand Championship. Joe credits Tae Kwon Do for his discipline and focus, two characteristics which have enabled him to accomplish many things.


http://realitytv.about.com/od/realitytvjudges/a/JoeRogan.htm


swpthleg said:


> Have you guys noticed that the camera usually only cuts to Arianny and Edith is riding the bench lmao.


Is that the other girl's name? I never even knew it.


----------



## swpthleg

Yes folks, there is such a thing as full contact TKD. No flippy kicks and you better have your heavy fight gear on.


----------



## Bebop

- The idea of a 3rd commentator rotating in for random matches is great. They can give personal insight, if they fought before. It also brings a change of pace. 

- The UFC needs more theatrical entrances. What they're doing right now is lame and and boring. There's nothing wrong with hyping up a fight with a big entrance. We've done polls on here before. Some people don't want the big entrance, but the majority does, and that's among the hardcore fans, think about the casual fan.


----------



## mmawrestler

ive always wanted them to do more with the production

I really want them to switch from that name nu-metal theme 
to dramatic ocestra, that would be pretty awsome

It would also be cool to see a white canvas

i also like the metric system idea


----------



## Guy

- Having pyro and great lighting for the main event would be very...appealing to watch and would give it that big time atmosphere. 

- A super slow-mo action replay would do wonders for knockouts including stars like Anderson Silva and others.

- 3rd announcer. This should almost be in the unified MMA rules that there shall be a 3rd announcer in the UFC to cover up for Goldberg's stupid comments. I'd say someone like Mir or Henderson. Maybe even someone like Wanderlei

Goldberg: Anderson Silva looking to finish Cote!!
Wanderlei: Yes I mean after all Silva iz Brazilian like me and Brazilians like to fight ze peoples
Rogan: *rolls eyes*


----------



## Vikingpride

I like the idea of adding a third announcer someone who maybe is very familiar with one of the fighters in the main event (they have fought them or maybe they fight out of the same camp). That would add some extra insight and maybe they could help explain what exactly the fighter is probably looking for.

I'm kind of torn on the big entrances. I mean i'm a fan of the wwe as well, but i like the fact that the UFC is so diffrent is every way. I dont really want to see the UFC go down that road of trying to add all this extra kind of flair to such a pure sport as MMA. I mean maybe it starts out with big entrances then it goes to the UFC trying to create big rivalries between fighters (which it has done a little bit). Then it goes to The ufc telling some of their fighters to be heels (bad guys) so they can build more hype when they go against fan favorites. I just really dont want to see MMA change a lot. It should be about going out their, competing, giving everything you got and trying to prove that you are a better fighter then the man across the ring or octagon.

Having said that i'm not totally against a big screen showing highlights of your fights or something as you come out. I just don't want guys being carried down to the cage on a platform with several guys holding it up and a crowd of dancers doing the superman dance around you as fireworks go off.


----------



## McIceman

Would love to see Bas as a 3rd commentator, cue Goldie making a dumbass comment and Bas taking the p*ss out of him for doing so... but Ken Flo did make a good job of commentating when he had a turn so could be a realistic option...

Its impossible not to get worked up to better entrances, Wandy's in Pride when he would be elevated to the stage with Darude - Sandstorm playing and then him bursting down to the ring... it was a better build up!

Id also get rid of the gladiator theme at start, im sure they could put together better montages and ideas for each event... 

The production of watching it on tv and the events themselves dont seem transitionless either... things could maybe be better timed??


----------



## sk double i

they need to stop spending so much money overseas and build a better show here in the US.

I don't want to compare the UFC to other organizations but I think if it was a better show, they could make a lot more by selling out stadiums like pride did. 40 50 60 thousand people coming out to each event.

I dont want to see 12 major events per year with 3 or 4 of them being in the UK or somewhere else. That just means the likelyhood that the UFC coming to my area decreases to maybe once a year.


----------



## Wanna-be

Why get rid of the gladiator in the intro..?




I understand it may give wrong impressions, but the UFC without it - isn't the UFC. It gets me pumped, every single time.


----------



## 69nites

Bebop said:


> - The idea of a 3rd commentator rotating in for random matches is great. They can give personal insight, if they fought before. It also brings a change of pace.
> 
> - The UFC needs more theatrical entrances. What they're doing right now is lame and and boring. There's nothing wrong with hyping up a fight with a big entrance. We've done polls on here before. Some people don't want the big entrance, but the majority does, and that's among the hardcore fans, think about the casual fan.


As a fighter I HATE when they want some entrance BS. Before the fight I'm trying to be focused and run through my gameplan not dance around for the casual fans.

The real fans are there to be entertained by what's happening in the cage/ring not some entrance stage.


----------



## XitUp

sk double i said:


> they need to stop spending so much money overseas and build a better show here in the US.
> 
> I don't want to compare the UFC to other organizations but I think if it was a better show, they could make a lot more by selling out stadiums like pride did. 40 50 60 thousand people coming out to each event.
> 
> I dont want to see 12 major events per year with 3 or 4 of them being in the UK or somewhere else. That just means the likelyhood that the UFC coming to my area decreases to maybe once a year.


**** that, why should America get all the shows?
And it won't fill arenas like Pride did for a long time, it's not big enough in the west yet for that.



Wanna-be said:


> Why get rid of the gladiator in the intro..?
> 
> I understand it may give wrong impressions, but the UFC without it - isn't the UFC. It gets me pumped, every single time.


It's the most **** thing I've ever seen. And I'm a gay porn star.


----------



## Wanna-be

Well, I'm certainly not gay, and I still enjoy watching hot - men bodies. The actually fights are more gay to be honest, some of the positions, anyways ;-P. 

Totally off topic, but you're saying gladiators were gay?


----------



## 69nites

Wanna-be said:


> Well, I'm certainly not gay, and I still enjoy watching hot - men bodies. The actually fights are more gay to be honest, some of the positions, anyways ;-P.
> 
> Totally off topic, but you're saying gladiators were gay?


that's what my ex-wife said about the north-south position.

she was a big fan of the north-south. thus the divorce.


----------



## TheNegation

Wanna-be said:


> I enjoy watching hot - men bodies.


The gayest thing I have ever read.


----------



## xeberus

*What about inducting the "yellow card" to UFC*

I don't remember exactly how it worked in pride.

But I think there should be a system to where if a fighter or one fighter is stalling, avoiding action or running they can receive a yellow card. 

1st card -10% purse

2nd card -25% purse and -1 point

3rd card -50% purse and -2 points

Or something along these lines


----------



## GMW

I don't like the system. 

Theres to many opinions on what qualifies, not fighting, lack of action, stalling, or any other of a half dozen terms. 

For example, would some people use it on Machida?


----------



## _Destruction_

xeberus said:


> I don't remember exactly how it worked in pride.
> 
> But I think there should be a system to where if a fighter or one fighter is stalling, avoiding action or running they can receive a yellow card.
> 
> 1st card -10% purse
> 
> 2nd card -25% purse and -1 point
> 
> 3rd card -50% purse and -2 points
> 
> Or something along these lines


I like the idea, it would force fighters like bisping or machida to actually fight instead of backpedaling and strafing the whole fight.No, I do not only want to see a brawl.Fighters like anderson silva, franklin, or rampage are all technical but they also bring the fight instead of running around the cage


----------



## Toxic

Never happen because the athletic commision would never allow it could prevent a fighter from performing to the full extent of their skill and ability and I think is similiar to Elite XC's suspect actions regarding their awarding of knock out bonus's.


----------



## GMW

_Destruction_ said:


> I like the idea, it would force fighters like bisping or machida to actually fight instead of backpedaling and strafing the whole fight.No, I do not only want to see a brawl.Fighters like anderson silva, franklin, or rampage are all technical but they also bring the fight instead of running around the cage


This guy is the reason we shouldn't have it imo.


----------



## Diokhan

Not on Machida. Even though his style is very defensive and boring he stays within range dealing damage with pretty impressive technique of his while backing away. Same for Bisping's tactic vs. Leben really; kinda boring tactic, but effective and it does deal damage instead of just avoiding it.

I don't like -% to purses either, and point reductions will be seen on judge score cards anyway. If you run away (Starnes) you wont be winning by decision. 

I think they should encourage less defensive game plans though with a system that increases the purses though. There already is Fight of the night, KO of the night and sub of the night -bonuses, but I think they should also toss in small bonus multipliers on purses based on the entertainment value of the fights. So instead of punishing people for boring and defensive game plans they would reward entertaining fighters.


----------



## _Destruction_

Diokhan said:


> Not on Machida. Even though his style is very defensive and boring he stays within range dealing damage with pretty impressive technique of his while backing away. Same for Bisping's tactic vs. Leben really; kinda boring tactic, but effective and it does deal damage instead of just avoiding it.
> 
> I don't like -% to purses either, and point reductions will be seen on judge score cards anyway. If you run away (Starnes) you wont be winning by decision.
> 
> I think they should encourage less defensive game plans though with a system that increases the purses though. There already is Fight of the night, KO of the night and sub of the night -bonuses, but I think they should also toss in small bonus multipliers on purses based on the entertainment value of the fights. So instead of punishing people for boring and defensive game plans they would reward entertaining fighters.


Hell, I like your idea even better


----------



## Toxic

Do people not understand that Elite XC is under investigation for trying to award bonuses that change a fighters gameplan in order to try to obtain a monetary gain, basically this in lamemens terms is fixing a fight, your trying to change the outcome and its very illegal.


----------



## CornbreadBB

How are Bisping and Machida not fighting? Just because the game plan is not to get hurt and to do as much damage as possible doesn't mean they aren't fighting.


----------



## _Destruction_

CornbreadBB said:


> How are Bisping and Machida not fighting? Just because the game plan is not to get hurt and to *do as much damage as possible* doesn't mean they aren't fighting.


bolded part made me LOL.No way are they trying to do damage, they run the whole fight and counter with weak arm jabs when the opponant brings the fight.At least machida gets explosive towards the end though, bisping didnt do shit except run.btw, its easy to open scar tissue with weak, glancing jabs.Thats why lebens face was bloody.No way was he even close to being hurt


----------



## CornbreadBB

It's pretty easy to respond to half of what someone says, but you can't deny that Bisping had a better game plan and tried to do damage whenever it was possible.


----------



## yynnaot

I respectfully think this is the worst idea ever. By implementing this, it will give judges way too much power over the fight. Think about all the questionable calls it could create. The first thing i think of is the lesnar mir fight when they stood them up. No matter if that was the right or wrong call, by giving more power to the judges, it can create more and more of these situations to occur. It will become like football where everyone blames the refs. I already hate it when it has to go to decision, I don't want another factor that can decide the outcome of the fight.


----------



## xeberus

yynnaot said:


> I respectfully think this is the worst idea ever. By implementing this, it will give judges way too much power over the fight. Think about all the questionable calls it could create. The first thing i think of is the lesnar mir fight when they stood them up. No matter if that was the right or wrong call, by giving more power to the judges, it can create more and more of these situations to occur. It will become like football where everyone blames the refs. I already hate it when it has to go to decision, I don't want another factor that can decide the outcome of the fight.


Well the power would actually be to the ref. And a big part of this new thing would stop a lot of the fights that go to decision, and force them to conclude. Or more or less cause less decisions.

The point of this is to keep it out of the judges hands.


----------



## yynnaot

xeberus said:


> Well the power would actually be to the ref. And a big part of this new thing would stop a lot of the fights that go to decision, and force them to conclude. Or more or less cause less decisions.
> 
> The point of this is to keep it out of the judges hands.


sorry i think i mistakenly used ref's and judges by accident, i meant it would give the refs more power. 

By your logic, it seems that it will simply transfer the power from the judges to the refs. 

My belief is that the fights should be decided by the fighters not by the refs nor the judges. I worry that this system will give too much power to the refs so that many outcomes will be affected (not necessarily caused) by the refs. 

IMO The addition of this rule creates more gray areas to the game that must be decided by a single ref. I also question the effectiveness of this rule in preventing "boring" fights.


----------



## AmRiT

_Destruction_ said:


> bolded part made me LOL.No way are they trying to do damage, they run the whole fight and counter with weak arm jabs when the opponant brings the fight.At least machida gets explosive towards the end though, bisping didnt do shit except run.btw, its easy to open scar tissue with weak, glancing jabs.Thats why lebens face was bloody.No way was he even close to being hurt


You sir are an idiot, Bisping destroyed Leben, when Leben came to him he backed up and damaged him, there were allot of times where Leben wasn't coming to Bisping, and he came in with great combo's, it's not Bisping's fault that his power wasn't enough to Knock Leben out, you cannot teach someone punching power, like Leben said


----------



## Scarecrow

Giving refs that much power is irresponsible. Much of the refs actions in the ring are based off of personal opinion...so one ref might issue a card for Bisping/Machida type fighting whereas another wouldn't. It would be too hard to set up a standard and to keep to it in each and every fight. The idea of adding bonus' for exciting performances is probably the best option stated so far in this thread.


----------



## xeberus

*Might be old, but Okami granted title shot after Thales Leites*

So when... *cough* if Leites doesn't beat silva, Okami gets the next shot for sure.

is this old?


----------



## Xerxes

yep, old news.


----------



## kamikaze145

I would much rather see Okami give it a go than Thales Leites.


----------



## xeberus

Xerxes said:


> yep, old news.


sigh*

i never saw it x_X

mods close this puppy pls


----------



## Bonnar426

I still can't believe they made Leites the No.1 contender! Its because of shitty matchmaking like this is the reason Anderson is retiring. Where the hell is the motivation to stay when no one can challenge you?


----------



## Villian

I have no idea why anyone is eager to see this fight, Okami is clearly going to lose. I cant even think of anything worthy he's done since being in the UFC.


----------



## Jimdon

^^ ditto, both of these guys must have hit the right square on MMA Monopoly... 

Do not pass go, do not fight any top competition, proceed directly to title shot.


----------



## Walker

Yeah it's old but I encourage all things Okami so please discuss.

I've been dying to see this fight for a long time so I very much hope that after the Leites fight Okami gets his rightful shot. It's old hat to say A. Silva will kill anyone he faces and could only lose to Superman and Jesus Christ in a tag-team match but I honestly think Okami has a good to decent chance to be the one to dethrone Anderson.


----------



## Jimdon

Could someone please explain why everyone thinks that Okami is the one that has the best chance to beat Silva? 

I'm not trying to be a smartass here, but i've seen Okami fights, he's good, but he's never really impressed me in any particular area. I hope this isn't another case of: "He was really good in Pride", because achievements in Pride are looking less and less impressive every time one of the former fighters fails to impress in the octagon.


----------



## randyspankstito

Blah. There isn't really anybody in the mw division that I'd be excited to see anderson face. Which is horrible, because anderson is such an awesome, exciting fighter. 

I won't stop complaining until he goes to lhw.


----------



## looney liam

hmm i've not heard of this before. don't be discouraged if you post old news, theres always the chance that someone out there hasnt heard about it. i was thinking that the winner of bisping/hendo would be next in line after leites.

this is one fight i'd like to see. silva can avenge the dq loss with a good victory over okami. okami is a good fighter, but i don't think he can finish silva, and sooner or later silva will land a solid combination and get the tko.


----------



## Okami-Fan

Well Personally I think Okami should be the Number 1 contender. But I also think that Leites should fight Okami. So Okami can beat him then fight Silva and most likely get his ass handed to him but never count Okami out and if the fight ever happens i will bet all my points on him


----------



## cezwan

Okami-Fan said:


> Well Personally I think Okami should be the Number 1 contender. But I also think that Leites should fight Okami. So Okami can beat him then fight Silva and most likely get his ass handed to him but never count Okami out and if the fight ever happens i will bet all my points on him


unfortunately for you, betting all your point in this fight will result in you losing all your points..


----------



## Okami-Fan

yeah I'd lose my points but I don't care hahaha I believe in Okami


----------



## Liddellianenko

Screw Leites and Okami, I wanna see him fight Bisping and Maia. These are the only guys that have any shred of a chance against Anderson.


----------



## Okami-Fan

pfft Okami would hand Bisping his ass. The only way Bisping would win is if the fight was fixed


----------



## Biowza

*Guida vs Diaz as FOTN?*

Really? Does anyone here really think that this fight deserved to be FOTN? All it was, was Guida holding onto the back of Diaz for 15 minutes, throwing rabbit punches that did no damage and never came close to finishing. 

I am starting to get annoyed with Guida, whenever he faces anyone half-decent all he does it grab onto them and throw weak punches. He pushes people against the cage or takes them to the ground and does nothing. 

Who thought this fight deserved to be FOTN?


----------



## geoff0011

At first, I didn't. I thought Lyoto/Silva and GSP/Penn for sure. But then I though about it, and if you get FoTN, both people get the bonus. Well, both of those fights were so one sided, how do you justify paying Silva and/or Penn anything extra for getting beat up. 

If the third rounds weren't so stale in both the Jones/Bonnar and Karo/Kim fights, I would have put them into contention for FoTN over Guida/Diaz. LOL, but same type of deal, thinking about it, Jones was pretty one sided as well.


----------



## plazzman

I would have given it to Jones/Bonnar. Jones put on a clinic, and Bonnar showed mad heart, and some tenacity in the 3rd round. 

The Diaz/Guida fight just killed me.


----------



## Ultrashock

geoff0011 said:


> At first, I didn't. I thought Lyoto/Silva and GSP/Penn for sure. But then I though about it, and if you get FoTN, both people get the bonus. Well, both of those fights were so one sided, how do you justify paying Silva and/or Penn anything extra for getting beat up.
> 
> If the third rounds weren't so stale in both the Jones/Bonnar and Karo/Kim fights, I would have put them into contention for FoTN over Guida/Diaz. LOL, but same type of deal, thinking about it, Jones was pretty one sided as well.


I agree with you on that. I love watching Clay fight, he did what he needed to do to win...he obviously was going to die from the reach disadvantage on the feet. Diaz did well, despite raising his arms after every round...I swear this dude is half retarded lol.


----------



## Ares Caesar

Hell no. That fight was pretty crappy. As its been said already, Guida just hugged Diaz for 3 rounds with Diaz continually trying the same BS to get out of it with no success. Was a relatively uneventful fight, with an outcome that really didnt answer "who would have won the fight if it had gone on forever?" 

To me it was the Jones vs Bonnar fight. I dont care if Bonnar clearly lost, the fact is he was actively fighting for 3 full rounds while Jones was throwing a lot of crazy stuff, with some excellent takedowns. This was probably the ONLY fight I'd have wanted a non MMA fan to watch, and think they'd like it. 

Definitely liked the Machida vs Silva fight, but that was too quick and way one sided, where as the Jones vs Bonnar fight at least had him actively hanging in for 3 full rounds.


----------



## silent_nick

yeah, that was on par with Shogun/Coleman being FOTN


----------



## M.C

People are too hard on this fight. There was some good wrestling, good throws, some decent clinch work, dirty boxing, etc, etc. I would think the Jones fight should get FOTN as it had a lot of the same, only more exciting.


----------



## Chileandude

I loved this fight, but i thought the Jones one was a little better.


----------



## LizaG

*Grove vs Gouveia at UFC 101?*

http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content4486.html

Speculation at the mo, but Grove seemed to have mentioned it himself in an interview...the source seems okay though, other sources have stated it to in line for UFC101

What would you guys think if this does take place?


----------



## MalkyBoy

LizaG said:


> http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content4486.html
> 
> Speculation at the mo, but Grove seemed to have mentioned it himself in an interview...the source seems okay though, other sources have stated it to in line for UFC101
> 
> What would you guys think if this does take place?


meh, it would probably be an entertaining fight but these guys are in limbo right now, I would not be surprised if this was on the undercard


----------



## Shamrock-Ortiz

Against Gouveia, you definitely don't want to be chinny. Gouveia has big power, and also a good ground game. I think this is a very tough fight for Kendall.


----------



## PirateNinja415

this would be grove's toughest fight to date for sure. he does have significant reach and cardio advantage though, so i do think it is possible for him to win this fight. if he can take this fight to the late 2nd, 3rd round, he can win this fight


----------



## pliff

I think Grove would have to play the reach and cardio cards in this fight. He would have to pick his shots, move in and out before feeling the power of Wilson.

He could take him to the ground and play a ground battle with the BJJ BlackBelt, he wouldnt gt knocked out that way and Kendall has a pretty decent ground game. 


I would pick Wilson in this fight, but if Grove can avoid the power shots, he definatly has a god shot at winning this fight.


My pick would still be Wilson RND 1 TKO though. Might be because I dont like grove that much though.


----------



## Ryan1522

Shamrock-Ortiz said:


> Against Gouveia, you definitely don't want to be chinny. Gouveia has big power, and also a good ground game. I think this is a very tough fight for Kendall.


I think you said it best.... Wilson has too much power. I see him putting him against the fence, tripping him for the takedown and submitting him. Preferrably a RNC, but a head and arm triangle would suffice. 

Anything to see Grove grimace before he has to tap.


----------



## PirateNinja415

Ryan1522 said:


> I think you said it best.... Wilson has too much power. I see him putting him against the fence, tripping him for the takedown and submitting him. Preferrably a RNC, but a head and arm triangle would suffice.
> 
> Anything to see Grove grimace before he has to tap.


i think grove has more to worry about gouveia's gnp than his submission game. those elbows he landed on jmac were nasty, kendall will not want to be put on his back or against the cage by wilson.


----------



## CopperShark

Shamrock-Ortiz said:


> Against Gouveia, you definitely don't want to be chinny. Gouveia has big power, and also a good ground game. I think this is a very tough fight for Kendall.


I think every MW fight right now is a tough fight for Kendall.


----------



## cdnbaron

CopperShark said:


> I think every MW fight right now is a tough fight for Kendall.


Yeah, unless Kendall's skills are just overwhelming compared to the guy he's fighting, I honestly can't pick him in a fight with his chin.

Gouveia has better skills anyways. Even if Kendall had a chin, I'd still take Wilson.


----------



## LizaG

*Dana's role on TUF*

Hi Guys,

With the latest controversy surrounding Dana White, and his decision to back off from the media and his public role, how do you think this will effect his role on The Ultimate Fighter?

Do you think he will still come out F-bombs in hand? Or could we be seeing a new way that the UFC will present the TUF format?

Discussion in order?


----------



## Darkwraith

I don't think it would be the same without Dana on TUF. I think he fits well with all the idiots they bring on the show. I think he will stay visible on that, maybe backoff on other things related to the public with the UFC. We will see if they really can or want to do this...or maybe they are waiting until the wholething blows over to get back to normal. :dunno:


----------



## LizaG

I hope so, he may back off the language a bit, and calling guys like Junie "retards". It wouldn't be the same show without him.

I hope it all blows over.


----------



## coldcall420

well in this UK vs. US his role will be the same cuz its been fimed already. But in the newer seasons i doubt it. i dunno it was his decision to scale himself back i seem to remember that Lorenzo kinda made that call......:dunno:


----------



## LizaG

I can imagine those Fertitta guys phoning up Dana yelling "What the hell did you just do!" lol

TUF wouldn't be the same without Dana swearing, yelling at people and generally voicing his opinions on fighters and fights in general. Hopefully they keep him on their...this whole thing may have blown over by the time TUF10 comes about.


----------



## D.P.

Yeah, I don't think it was his call to back off, more like his staff's advice. But idk if this would affect the next seasons to come.


----------



## LizaG

TUF was the UFC's baby and I think Dana should have a role on it...even if it is like on the first season where he gets more hands-on with tough calls and issues with fighters.

I think this would let the UFC insert more footage of the actual fight prep and training and just let the coaches have more exposure with their narration.

I don't want to see Dana disappear totally because that dude has a vibe


----------



## Simmi

I think Spike quite like the brashness of Dana. I cant quite remember but I think on one of his blogs there was some Spike thing where they had Dana come out to speak and had a montage of all his F-Bombs. Obviously he cant call anyone a retard or a *** but apart from that it should be ok. And obviously they have stricter editing unlike the misguided vlog. It wouldn't be the same without him.


----------



## Darkwraith

LizaG said:


> TUF was the UFC's baby and I think Dana should have a role on it...even if it is like on the first season where he gets more hands-on with tough calls and issues with fighters.
> 
> I think this would let the UFC insert more footage of the actual fight prep and training and just let the coaches have more exposure with their narration.
> 
> I don't want to see Dana disappear totally because that dude has a vibe


I think he fits in well with that show. His whole image that he has going on goes nicely with all the stupid and bad behavior that goes on with that show so I don't really think he will get scaled back in that sense...


----------



## coldcall420

Dana needs to stop being iresponsible.....Put it that way...we all know what that means just tone it down at certain times....guys that are the president of a mojor company dont wear suits hold confrences on why its not barbaric and that its a sport while dropping 25 F-Bombs....


he needs to grow up a little in that sense......:thumb02:

I love dna though and wouldnt want to not see him on TUF...it is his baby.....


----------



## D.P.

I agree with Coldcall...he has to tone it down a bit. He's the front for a company that is growing ever popular and he needs to realize that acting like he's 15 is going to start working against him.


----------



## LizaG

He just needs his own PC-filter between his brain and mouth I guess...his F-bombs are fine in small doses, but the un-PC shit he comes out with sometimes will need to go.

Or TUF may be the next casualty of this media backlash.


----------



## 70seven

TUF 9 was recorded a long time ago, won't change the season.


----------



## LizaG

I wasn't suggesting season9, I just meant TUF in general in the future.


----------



## coldcall420

I would imagine it will have some effect on the future productions but it never really has been on TUF that he has been a total tool like using a slur like "******" which people still use all the time(doesnt make it right)....but he does represent the face of the company and prob will tighten his shit up a little......what its not like lorenzo will be the host now.........:thumb02:


----------



## pelpa666

yeah the show wont be the same without Dana 
but he sure is getting more silly as time passes


----------



## LizaG

*Chris Wilson robbed at gunpoint*

Courtesy of BloodyElbow



> Chris Wilson has been training for his UFC 98 fight against Brock Larson in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. He has lived there for most of his life and everything has been going on without a hitch, until last Wednesday. According to the Canadian Press, a group of men held him up at gun point:
> 
> "As I came into the apartment complex, a guy held me up at gunpoint and then he called his friends. And then a total of five people came up to the apartment. They were armed and my family was in the bathroom - I've got two kids - so it was just a terrible situation.
> They were after small stuff, but they took our TV and my laptop, and jewelry. And they took some of the kids' clothing and Nike tennis shoes... Then they put everything in my car, made me take them somewhere. It was just terrible. Wasn't sure if I was coming back from that one. But it all worked out."
> 
> This situation really reminds me of the Brandon Vera and Lloyd Irvin incident, but this time, the robbers got what they wanted. However, I can't blame Chris Wilson for doing the smart thing by not risking the lives of his wife and two kids.
> 
> The fight will still go on as planned. One could just hope that he and his family isn't too shaken up about the whole ordeal.
> 
> "I've been training, I'm ready to fight. It's just that kind of thing is a little bit heavy on your shoulders."


This is not want you want going into a tough fight...I hope Chris and his Family are not too shaken by what happened. But he was right to co-operate with the robbers.


----------



## Emericanaddict

Wilson is a smart dude for sure but as you said I hope this doesn't affect his mentality going into the fight unless it's going to make him fight even harder that is hahaha.


----------



## CornbreadBB

Shit, they stole his Nike's!? That's low.


----------



## pipe

This is why I would never move to South America, they either steel you're shit or kidnap you're family.


----------



## Emericanaddict

Im pretty sure this kinda shit happens everywhere buddy not just South America lol. Every country has places with high crime rates and this can still happen even in the areas which have very low crime rates aswell.

It's just bad luck my friend. perhaps they think the same about moving to england because they don't want to get stabbed hahah just kidding but you know what I mean.


----------



## Bradysupafan

Lucky that he is a UFC fighter so he doesnt have that much money


----------



## pipe

^ and ^^ lol


----------



## LizaG

*McCrory cut by UFC*

http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2009/08/12/tamdan-mccrory-released-by-the-ufc/


> Tamdan McCrory has been let go by the UFC following a split decision defeat at the hands of John Howard at UFC 101.
> 
> Apparently a representative of “The Barn Cat” was notified of the release by UFC matchmaker Joe Silva sometime Monday evening according to a recent report on the Underground News.
> 
> McCrory earned a reputation as a tougher than nails, well rounded mixed martial artist during his time with the UFC where he put together a respectable record of 3-3 while compiling wins over the likes of Pete Spratt and Luke Cummo, and dropping bouts to Akihiro Gono and Dustin Hazelett.
> 
> With an overall record of 11-3 and a fighting style that refuses to disappoint, Tamdan would make a fantastic addition to the Strikeforce welterweight roster that is currently hungry for talent.


If this is true then I am truly gutted, he always put on a good fight and gave it 100%, hope he can get a few wins and get back in the UFC asap, maybe even at MW like he suggested.


----------



## Biowza

Nefilim777 said:


> Tamdan McCrory!


From the other thread...lol

Sad news though, McCrory was pretty fun.


----------



## LizaG

You mean the thread where people worried he was going to get cut? lol....I think he suffered too much in the fight from a bad weight cut.


----------



## steveo412

Yup the fight game is a tough business. you gotta win fights to stay in such a stacked division going 500 just isnt good enough anymore. he is young and shows skill. I think he will be back.


----------



## dudeabides

This is a bummer, I enjoyed his fights especially when he fought Cummo and Hazelett. Hope the best for him wherever he ends up going.


----------



## Biowza

LizaG said:


> You mean the thread where people worried he was going to get cut? lol....I think he suffered too much in the fight from a bad weight cut.


Yeah that's the one. I remember seeing that then coming over here.

"I hope McCrory doesn't get cut..."

"McCrory has been cut"

lol


----------



## LizaG

I'm sure he'll either string some wins together and be back for another shot...or Strikeforce will snap him up. He's too good.


----------



## D.P.

Wow...

That really sucks.


----------



## Toxie

awwhhh i enjoyed watching him fight.. sad to see him go


----------



## pipe

Unfortunatly being an entertaining fighter isnt enough for some of the current roster. They should have kept him around for at least one more fight, I thought you had to lose 2 on the bounce to be cut?

I rather watch a young up and coming exiting fighter than a boring ass wrestler like Howard any day of the week.


----------



## Nefilim777

Biowza said:


> From the other thread...lol
> 
> Sad news though, McCrory was pretty fun.


Goddamn! I hate being psychic... I'll miss the barncat..


----------



## mattandbenny

Shame, i liked McCrory he had potential. Hopefully he'll be back in the future, he's still a young guy.


----------



## Charles Lee Ray

This is a bit of a surprise considering he won his fight before this loss and looked really good in it. He deffinitly deserved another fight. Yet some one like Ryan Jensen (who I have nothing against) gets another chance even though he is 0-3. There really is sense in the way the UFC makes these cuts.


----------



## Simmi

Charles Lee Ray said:


> This is a bit of a surprise considering he won his fight before this loss and looked really good in it. He deffinitly deserved another fight. Yet some one like Ryan Jensen (who I have nothing against) gets another chance even though he is 0-3. There really is sense in the way the UFC makes these cuts.


It surprised me too. But it wouldn't surprise me if they are about to do another round of cuts like they did a while back to thin out the roster a little. 

There will definately be a few guys looking over their shoulders now after hearing this news.


----------



## hvendlor

This cut seems really harsh to me. He's 3-3 and has a win/loss record. He just lost to a guy who's on a 5 fight win streak via split decision and he gets cut...

harsh


----------



## K R Y

Very harsh, Tamdan is a great fighter that's always fun to watch. Hope to see him back in the UFC at a later date.


----------



## Alexcny

From what I have heard from people in Tamdans camp he had a really tough time making the weight cut. I heard he was experience fatigure and kidney pain before the fight even started. I think that will probably be the end of his career as a 170lb. fighter.

Regardless the decision was split and super close. He could easily be 4-2 right now. 

As much as I'll miss seeing him fight in the UFC I think it might be a blessing in disguise. He is only ~22 and is only getting better. Hopefully he will be back in the ufc in a few years as a top contender at 185


----------



## Halebop

BOOOOOO! I had a bad feeling as I am sure others did when I read a pre fight article about McCrory being ready to take on competition at 185....probably not a good story to come out a few days before your bout at 170. I should have listened to intuition that told me this story wouldn't come out if his weight cut was a breeze. 

Im a fan of McCrory. My guess is the UFC told him to go out into smaller shows and figure out if he is a WW or a MW before coming back to the big stage. If he stayed in the UFC he could very well end up 3-4 then 3-5 in the octagon. There is no reason the UFC would cut ties with a fighter with such potential but I understand if they told him to work out the kinks and find direction on a smaller stage.


----------



## Sekou

bye bye Barncat, lol


I told yall...everybody was doubting John Howard, lol


----------



## osmium

I liked the guy but he is good enough that I am sure he will land somewhere that we can watch his fights so I'm not worried about it he needs a few years to really compete with the UFC's talent level.


----------



## JoshKnows46

This is absoult stupid, how can they cut him?

he's one of the most exciting fighters the ufc had, i don't understand this.

**** you dana white.


----------



## Evil Ira

JoshKnows46 said:


> This is absoulty fuckin stupid, how can they cut him?
> 
> he's one of the most exciting fighters the ufc had, i don't understand this.
> 
> **** you dana white, you fat bald bitch.


Yeah! **** Dana White! Even though he's not the one who fired McCrory It's not like he has ever done anything for the sport of Mixed Martial Arts...

Anyway, I don't really mind this at all. Strikeforce will most likely sign him, and put him in some great fights.

War McCrory!


----------



## JoshKnows46

Evil Ira said:


> Yeah! **** Dana White! Even though he's not the one who fired McCrory It's not like he has ever done anything for the sport of Mixed Martial Arts...
> 
> Anyway, I don't really mind this at all. Strikeforce will most likely sign him, and put him in some great fights.
> 
> War McCrory!


where will he go when the ufc burys strikeforce?

nick diaz vs tandam would be fun


----------



## Davisty69

That sucks... I like his fighting style.


----------



## Fieos

I loves me some barncat!


----------



## Breath

Yeah me too. I really liked the way he twisted his body and stretched out his arm against Gono :thumb02:


----------



## Biowza

*Dana White Reacts to Rampage's comments*



> Shortly after Rampage Jackson wrote on his web site that he was retiring from mixed martial arts to pursue a career in acting, UFC President Dana White said he was disappointed in Jackson for "acting like a baby" -- but he added that he understands Jackson can do whatever he wants with his life.
> 
> "Rampage is a grown man," White told Carmichael Dave on the radio station KHTK (audio here). "He's acting like a baby right now, but he's a grown man. If he wants to be in the movie business, Rampage, good luck to you, man. I hope he makes it big, and I'm not being sarcastic. ... I hope the movie thing works out for him. If that's what he truly wants to do, and that's what he feels and that's what he thinks his career is, I wish him all the luck in the world."
> 
> White said he didn't get any advance warning from Jackson about the surprise retirement announcement and that he still likes Jackson personally, but that if Jackson wants to leave the UFC, White can't stop him.
> 
> "I just found out, too," White said. "Rampage has been a friend of ours. We really like Rampage. I'm not going to get into the battle of who's done what for who and all that stuff. We've done a lot for him and yes, he's been there and fought. The guys who come in here, they're fighters. That's what they do. We give them fights and they fight. And they make money and we make money. That's the way it works."
> 
> White also said he understands that Jackson was upset with him for belittling his decision to turn down a fight with Rashad Evans and instead join the cast of the upcoming A-Team movie -- but White doesn't regret speaking candidly about his thoughts on Jackson's career decision.
> 
> "I got so pissed off," White said. "I'm speaking my mind, he thinks I'm trying to ruin his movie career."
> 
> White disputed Jackson's claims that he was pressured into fighting Evans instead of UFC light heavyweight champion Lyoto Machida, but other than that he didn't take issue with anything Jackson has said. As far as White is concerned, it's Jackson's decision to make.
> 
> "He's a grown man," White said. "He can do whatever he wants to do."


http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/09/23/dana-white-rampage-jackson-acting-like-a-baby-but-can-do-what/


----------



## Simmi

I had a feeling Dana would try and take the moral high ground. No point in pouring more fuel on the fire.

I'm sure he knows Rampage's movie career isn't going any further than a few terrible action movies.


----------



## Servatose

Simmi said:


> I had a feeling Dana would try and take the moral high ground. No point in pouring more fuel on the fire.
> 
> I'm sure he knows Rampage's movie career isn't going any further than a few terrible action movies.


And doing so was the correct business decision, in my opinion. Showing support for Rampage's choice does a couple of things, all which have a common theme; the possibility of him returning to the UFC.


----------



## mohod1982

Thats not the reaction I anticipated.....


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

Dana is taking the high road here for one of two reasons: 

1) he understands that this is time to be diplomatic if he wants Quinten Rampage Jackson back in the octagon at a future time after a failed movie career; or, 

2) Dana is so taken aback by Quinten Rampage Jackson's decision that he hasn't had time to fully process what has happened and is reviewing whether he could have done anything differently. 

I think this is more #2. But expect Dana to unleash a fury when he realizes that there was nothing he could have done to prevent Rampage's decision. Really, I think this was Rampage's decision all along, and he was just biding his time before cutting ties with the UFC... he just needed one large marketing opportunity to help propel him, and that was TUF with Kimbo. 

Well played Quittin Rampage Jackson... Well played.


----------



## N1™

the audio http://www.sports1140.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=4039422


----------



## Curly

Doesn't Dana have a contract on Rampage? I though he was signed for two more fights... :confused02:


----------



## The Horticulturist

He got his free SUV (or car, I don't know what they gave them for TUF this year.) and took off just in time  It really doesn't matter to me, I just feel sad for the Rashad fans. They wanted their boy to prove he could really beat Rampage, and now he doesn't get his opportunity.

Rashad might as well have taken the Couture fight 

I'm glad Dana isn't being outspoken about it right now, at least not while TUF is still on.


----------



## Kreed

N1™ said:


> the audio http://www.sports1140.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=4039422


:thumbsup:


----------



## dario03

Curly said:


> Doesn't Dana have a contract on Rampage? I though he was signed for two more fights... :confused02:


I would guess that prevents him from fighting in other organizations but not from retiring.


----------



## 6toes

dario03 said:


> I would guess that prevents him from fighting in other organizations but not from retiring.


Yeah, isn't that the same thing Randy did at one point?

This really is a shame but whatever Rampage wants to do I guess. At least Dana is responding respectfully at the moment, other than the 'baby' remark :thumb02:.


----------



## Toxie

I personally really dislike the way Dana handles business. He allows too much personal emotion to get in the way, whether he gets mad, or takes the moral high ground. He was also only talking about the money and not what Rampage's retirement means to MMA. SMH


----------



## Curly

6toes said:


> At least Dana is responding respectfully at the moment, other than the 'baby' remark :thumb02:.


I think Dana is trying to play his cards right so as to get the ex-champ back in the ring. If Dana sees that Page is serious about this "retirement" he will probably turn on the hate. 

If I were a betting man I'd guess Rampage will be back in the ring by the end of 2010. Dana has a way of making these guys his bitches. 
:mistress01:


----------



## joshua7789

As a fan, i dont really have to much ill will towards rampage for this other then the fact that i like to watch him fight and will miss that. But, if you look at it from Dana White and the UFC's point of view, they have every right to be very pissed off at rampage. How is it that rampage even got considered for this role? Oh thats right, the UFC marketed the shit out of him, put him on two seasons of TUF and built him into a big name. He took the fame that they gave him and headed for what he believes to be greener pastures. From a business stand point, thats pretty cold. From a fans stand point, it sucks but its not a reason to hate the guy.


----------



## DropKick

Toxie said:


> I personally really dislike the way Dana handles business. He allows too much personal emotion to get in the way, whether he gets mad, or takes the moral high ground. He was also only talking about the money and not what Rampage's retirement means to MMA. SMH


But really, what's he supposed to say? "I can't believe it MMA will never be the same, Rampage is so great blah blah blah". The UFC did a lot for Rampage's career. It gave him the type of exposure he needed to land movie deals and such. Also, MMA and the UFC is way bigger than any 1 fighter. Fighters will come and go but the fights will continue and new stars will emerge. Dana's job isn't to be worried about the feelings of 1 particular person it's his job to worry about the future of the UFC and MMA in general.


----------



## GMK13

imo i thind dana expects rampage will come back after the movie is over. i def believe that.


----------



## Wookie

Yeah Dana is being diplomatic at this point. I think he will wait to see how things pan out before he starts hating. With that said it's probably the best plan because unless Rampage is somehow really good at acting, he'll be back soon enough when the money runs dry. I just hope he doesn't take to long off.


----------



## marcthegame

This is y the ufc needs to pay these guys more. The rampage situation reminds me of the rock and the wwe. Say what u want about rampage's acting career but he'll make more money being a crappy actor than he would have training and being a top ufc fighter. If Keanu Reevves can make millions making crappy movies, rampage can make a fraction of that.


----------



## coldcall420

I think Dana knows rampage doesn't have "real" movie career.....Sure he can be BA on the A-Team, but then what.....

At the end of the day if he leaves and wants to come back your gonna hear Dana start talking about contracts.....

Sounds like they had a fight Dana and Rampage about the movie and Page is pissed that Dana disrespected him and the movies importance in terms of watching with his family......

Rampage could be off his meds as well....who knows but I think he'll be back..

CC420:thumbsup:


----------



## Toxie

DropKick said:


> But really, what's he supposed to say? "I can't believe it MMA will never be the same, Rampage is so great blah blah blah". The UFC did a lot for Rampage's career. It gave him the type of exposure he needed to land movie deals and such. Also, MMA and the UFC is way bigger than any 1 fighter. Fighters will come and go but the fights will continue and new stars will emerge. Dana's job isn't to be worried about the feelings of 1 particular person it's his job to worry about the future of the UFC and MMA in general.


It's not about Rampage being so great, but about Rampage being high up in the UFC rankings and what that will do to the LHW division. His retirement affects the sport, even if not as much as it affects the fans. I'd much rather have heard about that from Dana, than about the money or Dana's personal feelings on the issue. I'm not saying Rampage is right or wrong about what he's been claiming or that the UFC hasn't done a lot for Rampage, just that personally, I don't like how Dana verbalized his opinion about this piece of news.


----------



## MagiK11

If Ice cube can make movies and get paid Rampage has a better chance to make more money than being a fighter. A lot of you are down playing that fact, plus Rampage is charismatic and I can see him getting various roles in movies. Sure he won't be an A list actor but he can make several movies for sure and laugh/howl straight to the bank.


----------



## LCRaiders

We all have to respect Rampage for his decision even though we disagree with it. Everyone has a right to do what ever it is that they want..


----------



## eric2004bc

id liek to see the rampage V rashad fight before his retirement, so he can retire proerly and in the octagon


----------



## coldcall420

MagiK11 said:


> If Ice cube can make movies and get paid Rampage has a better chance to make more money than being a fighter. A lot of you are down playing that fact, plus Rampage is charismatic and I can see him getting various roles in movies. Sure he won't be an A list actor but he can make several movies for sure and laugh/howl straight to the bank.


 
LOL....He can def do whatever he wants and I aint mad at him, I think he will be back, but what drama's do you see him doing since you can see him in various roles....????:confused02:

CC420


----------



## MagiK11

coldcall420 said:


> LOL....He can def do whatever he wants and I aint mad at him, I think he will be back, but what drama's do you see him doing since you can see him in various roles....????:confused02:
> 
> CC420


lmao! I guess I should have said various parts in movies, because I really don't see him doing a drama. But I'm sure he'll do some shoot em up type of movie, or be a dealer in another. So I see him probably making several movies, but as far as roles are concerned it'll be slim pickings. 

But the more I think about it, I'm pretty sure he could get away with doing a comedy or two. I could have totally seen him in the Big Labowsky.


----------



## coldcall420

MagiK11 said:


> lmao! I guess I should have said various parts in movies, because I really don't see him doing a drama. But I'm sure he'll do some shoot em up type of movie, or be a dealer in another. So I see him probably making several movies, but as far as roles are concerned it'll be slim pickings.
> 
> But the more I think about it, I'm pretty sure he could get away with doing a comedy or two. I could have totally seen him in the Big Labowsky.


 
I think your right, I just think those aren't large paying roles and when he realizes that he will be back....your right on though with the type of movies......imo...

CC420

Randy Couture....


----------



## albsd23

DANA WHITE is a true P***Y and is killing MMA and turning it into a real life "WWF" One man should not have that much power they go on power trips first Tito,Coture, Now Page I swear what is next for this dude Dana because to be honest all this dude really cares about at the end of the day is MONEY!!


----------



## swpthleg

coldcall420 said:


> LOL....He can def do whatever he wants and I aint mad at him, I think he will be back, but what drama's do you see him doing since you can see him in various roles....????:confused02:
> 
> CC420


Actually, I was thinking sitcom. He done good on King of Queens, didn't he?

He and Bas run a gym together, or something, and wackiness ensues.


----------



## coldcall420

albsd23 said:


> DANA WHITE is a true P***Y and is killing MMA and turning it into a real life "WWF" One man should not have that much power they go on power trips first Tito,Coture, Now Page I swear what is next for this dude Dana because to be honest all this dude really cares about at the end of the day is MONEY!!


 
What Dana does has nothing to do with the WWE.....money yes....:thumbsdown:

CC420


----------



## HexRei

swpthleg said:


> Actually, I was thinking sitcom. He done good on King of Queens, didn't he?
> 
> He and Bas run a gym together, or something, and wackiness ensues.


oh man, they could have an episode where a crazy scientists switches their personalities, and they have to live each other's lives for a day! imagine the hijinks!



albsd23 said:


> DANA WHITE is a true P***Y and is killing MMA and turning it into a real life "WWF" One man should not have that much power they go on power trips first Tito,Coture, Now Page I swear what is next for this dude Dana because to be honest all this dude really cares about at the end of the day is MONEY!!


Seriously. Every day, it seems like the UFC is becoming more like the World Wildlife Fund. Enough of this conservation nonsense Dana!


----------



## Couchwarrior

Dana knows that Rampage is going to come back with his tail between his legs in a year or so.


----------



## Finnsidious

I have to admit this surprises me a little. To predict behavior you look at what people do in the past, and Dana White does not have a long proud history of seizing the moral high ground, he has a long history of rushing over to someone who is down and kicking them a lot...and then sueing them.

I can only assume he anticipates Rampages return, and doesn't want to poison their relationship, but if thats the case, it's a kind of foresight which Dana has never demonstrated in the past.


----------



## vinIMMORTAL

I personally feel Dana acted in a respectful way (sort of), but hey, at the end of the day it is Rampage's Choice. It sucks that he's leaving the sport, he's a great fighter and I'm a huge fan. I do think this news is legitimate, however after the movie and other things rampage feels he needs to get out of his system, if the UFC throws enough money his way, he'll be back in no-time. Hopefully. Anyway, everyone can continue giving their input and thoughts however we just need to wait and see how this plays out. COME BACK RAMPAGE!!!!


----------



## coldcall420

> Without question the most intriguing fighter to enter the UFC in years, Lyoto ‘The Dragon’ Machida has built his unbeaten record the hard way by taking out some of the biggest names
> 
> 
> in the sport. next on his list is Mauricio ‘Shogun’ Rua, but before the two meet at UFC 104 on October 24th, it’s time to look at Machida’s seven defining moments.
> *Rich Franklin - December 31, 2003 - Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye 2003*
> *Result – Machida TKO2*
> Future UFC middleweight champ Rich Franklin, fresh off two UFC wins, took a gamble by going to Japan to face the relatively unknown Machida, just 2-0 as a pro – he lost that gamble, getting stopped in the second round. And from the opening bell, you got the impression that Franklin was in for a long night, especially when he fired off his first leg kick and got a straight left flush in the face for his trouble. Later in the opening round, he was knocked down by Machida, with perhaps only the ropes keeping him from being stopped, and he was just one step slower than the Brazilian, who finished in the second what he started in the first with a left punch followed by a right knee that spelled the end for Franklin. At the time, it was a stunning result to many, but talking about that fight earlier this year, Franklin isn’t surprised by the success Machida has gone on to enjoy. “I’m not really surprised by Machida,” said Franklin. “I fought Machida back at the end of ’03, and to be honest, at the time, he was the sleeper. We didn’t know who he was. He was a lot better than I thought then, and to see what’s going on with him doesn’t really surprise me.”
> *BJ Penn – March 26, 2005 – K-1 Hero’s 1*
> *Result – Machida W3*
> Always fearless, BJ Penn had shocked the world once by jumping from the lightweight to welterweight division to dethrone Matt Hughes in 2004. In 2005, following his departure from the UFC and wins over Duane Ludwig and Rodrigo Gracie, ‘The Prodigy’ decided to test himself against the even bigger and stronger Machida. For Penn, it was just another way of testing the philosophies of his first love, jiu-jitsu. “Jiu-jitsu was created where the small man can beat the big man, and I’ve been doing jiu-jitsu since I was 17 years old, and that has always stuck in my head throughout all the time and all the way until now,” said Penn. “It’s ingrained in me that I believe I have a chance. I know that something’s gonna happen, the guy’s gonna make a mistake and I’m gonna get that armlock or get that choke.” It didn’t happen though, as Machida, then 5-0, added another high-profile notch to his belt by pounding out a three round decision win. Now the world really wanted to see what this mysterious Brazilian was all about.
> *Sam Hoger – February 3, 2007 – UFC 67*
> *Result – Machida W3*
> Following Machida’s wins over big names like Franklin, Penn, Stephan Bonnar, and Michael McDonald, he entered the WFA organization and defeated Vernon White in July of 2006. Soon after, the UFC purchased select assets of the organization, including the contract of one Lyoto Machida. At UFC 67, Machida was introduced to UFC fans with a three round win over Sam Hoger that let observers know that this was no ordinary light heavyweight. “The difficult style of fighting I have was achieved by all the karate training I have done through my whole life, and for all that my father has taught me,” said Machida, whose style was unlike anything seen in the Octagon.
> *David Heath – April 21, 2007 – UFC 70*
> *Result – Machida W3*
> Not a particularly memorable fight, Machida’s three round decision win over David Heath sticks out in my mind nonetheless because it pointed out the difficulties opponents had to face when taking on ‘The Dragon.’ As Heath told me before the fight, “Machida has a really complex style and that’s gonna take a lot of work to get past some of the stuff that he does and make it the type of fight that I want it to be.” Heath wasn’t able to solve the riddle of Machida though, and even though fans booed that night, Machida stuck to his gameplan, frustrating Heath into mistakes that could have cost him the bout. “I’ve caught a lot of flack from some of the fans who say that there are two fighters in there, and if it’s a boring fight it’s the fault of both of them,” said Heath. “But I don’t think that’s a guy saying that who has gone, ‘well, if I want to do better here I’ve got to get completely out of my style and gameplan and just go rushing facefirst into a guy who wants me to do that.’ I think some people really respect that style and fault me for making it boring, but like I said, I don’t think that’s someone who’s faced the working end of a really dangerous fighter’s tools.”
> *Tito Ortiz – May 24, 2008 – UFC 84*
> *Result – Machida W3*
> Though you couldn’t tell from looking at his usual poker face, Machida felt the heat leading up to his UFC 84 showdown with Tito Ortiz, who was in the last fight of his contract and in the midst of a heated feud with UFC President Dana White. Machida was ‘The Huntington Beach Bad Boy’s going away present, and the whole world knew it. “There was a lot more pressure,” said Machida. “That was the hardest part. There was a fight going on between Dana and Tito, and I didn’t want to get involved, but at the same time, I was in the middle of it. Either way I was able to stay relaxed.” And for 14 minutes and 25 seconds, Machida dominated every aspect of the fight, but then Ortiz pulled a triangle choke out of his bag of tricks and the entire fight world held its breath. “I did get concerned because the triangle was locked on,” said Machida. “I didn’t expect him to do that. I had trained a lot of ground work so I was prepared, but it surprised me.” After a few dicey moments, Machida pulled loose and went on to score a lopsided three round decision. It was the win that propelled ‘The Dragon’ into the world title picture and made mainstream fans start to take notice.
> *Thiago Silva – January 31, 2009 – UFC 94*
> *Result – Machida KO1*
> Despite five straight UFC wins without a loss, Machida still took heat from fans for only finishing off Rameau Sokoudjou and not being Wanderlei Silva in the Octagon. Machida stuck to his guns though, having the uncanny ability to make opponents fight his fight. And if they engaged or got overaggressive, he would make them pay. Fellow unbeaten countryman Thiago Silva did both, and Machida sent him packing with a crushing first round knockout. It was Machida’s biggest UFC win to date, and one that got him a shot at the light heavyweight title owned by Rashad Evans. More importantly, the fans started coming around for Machida. “I have been working hard to satisfy my fans and I feel that my hard work paid off in that fight,” said Machida.
> *Rashad Evans – May 23, 2009 – UFC 98 *
> *Result – Machida KO2*
> “Karate’s back,” said Machida seconds after winning the UFC light heavyweight title from Rashad Evans, and no one was arguing with him after another technically flawless performance that was capped off by a final sequence that was certainly – to use the Joe Rogan phrase – a ballet of violence. In 19 previous pro bouts, no one had ever seen Evans hurt and taken out like this, but Machida, MMA’s most complex puzzle, did it with his usual cool and precision. It was a master class from the new champion, and as he approaches his first title defense on October 24th, it’s clear that he won’t rest on his laurels. “This is my first title defense and I hope I’ll win,” said Machida. “My opponent is tough, a great person, very good on the ground and (in his) striking, but I know one thing – I’ll keep doing my homework."


 
Im going with Machida......:confused05:

CC420


----------



## coldcall420

ryde said:


> Lyoto Machida vs BJ Penn
> 
> Part 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Part 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Part 3


 
Im so glad you posted the BJ fight, so many people dont realize Lyoto has only as of late gained confidence in his Karate enough to incorportae into his MMA Career....

This is evidence of some of is other skills......


CC420:thumbsup:


----------



## swpthleg

f*cking right, karate's back.

Great read, great clips.


----------



## YOURMOMWASHERE

When I think of shogun, I think of him getting beat up by fottest


----------



## T-Pain

When I think of forrest..i think of Usain Bolt


----------



## swpthleg

What the hell are you talking about?

Go shake yourself and eat something.


----------



## Xerxes

If it was up to me, I'd replace the Heath fight with the Sokky fight. 

Yes, we realized afterwards that Sokky was madly over-rated but we couldn't know at the time of the fight. I that remember many were impressed with this 2nd round submission (Machida's 1st finish in the UFC which makes it even more of a defining moment in my eyes) over a top 10 LHW who was highly touted coming off the destruction of Lil Nog and Arona.

Simply put: win over Sokky> win over Heath (imo).

Also another defining moment to me would be: "Nowww... The Drago... is the Shampiooooooooooooo" 

:thumb02:


----------



## Damone

Stick the Nakamura fight in there. The Penn fight was embarrassing considering it's a LW fighting a LHW. Machida did not look good in that fight. Pudgy and got pwned for 1 round.


----------



## DropKicker

And the point of this thread is...??? As if there weren't already enough Machida nut hugging in many other threads...


----------



## coldcall420

DropKicker said:


> And the point of this thread is...??? As if there weren't already enough Machida nut hugging in many other threads...


Pretty Simply....if you scroll to the top of every page your on you will see the title at the top.....The title for this thread is "Lyoto Machida 7 Defining Moments" its right up there if you scroll *wait while you scroll* so that title would indicate what your about to read, therefore if your not interested in seeing it dont......:thumbsup:



Xerxes said:


> If it was up to me, I'd replace the Heath fight with the Sokky fight.
> 
> Yes, we realized afterwards that Sokky was madly over-rated but we couldn't know at the time of the fight. I that remember many were impressed with this 2nd round submission (Machida's 1st finish in the UFC which makes it even more of a defining moment in my eyes) over a top 10 LHW who was highly touted coming off the destruction of Lil Nog and Arona.
> 
> Simply put: win over Sokky> win over Heath (imo).
> 
> Also another defining moment to me would be: "Nowww... The Drago... is the Shampiooooooooooooo"
> 
> :thumb02:


 
This is a great point and over looked by many, however as you poited out at this point with the siccuess Sokky has had as of late people will knock the win......


The BJ fight was ugly, but hey it was still an opportunity to fight a great opponent and develop his skills...

CC420


----------



## mohod1982

You guys dont think its a bit too early for this crap? how about letting the man defend his belt successfully......


----------



## DropKicker

coldcall420 said:


> Pretty Simply....if you scroll to the top of every page your on you will see the title at the top.....The title for this thread is "Lyoto Machida 7 Defining Moments" its right up there if you scroll *wait while you scroll* so that title would indicate what your about to read, therefore if your not interested in seeing it dont......:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CC420



How about this one..."Why I'm squeezing Machida's nutts so tight".... dude, we know your intention here is praising the man... and that's your opinion... but if there were a thread for everyone's favorite fighter also... don't you think we'd have a trolling problem here... do the math kid... Im done with you... I hope Machida doesn't lose his next fight... people may cry & commit suicide it seems:thumbsdown: kids these days....:confused02:



:sarcastic12::cheeky4:


----------



## coldcall420

DropKicker said:


> How about this one..."Why I'm squeezing Machida's nutts so tight".... *dude, we know your intention here is praising the man*... and that's your opinion... but if there were a thread for everyone's favorite fighter also... don't you think we'd have *a trolling problem* here... do the math kid... Im done with you... I hope Machida doesn't lose his next fight... people may cry & commit suicide it seems:thumbsdown: *kids these days*....:confused02:
> 
> 
> 
> :sarcastic12::cheeky4:


Just so you understand My intention......we do a seven defining moments post for all up comming fights. because the O.P. happen to be a Machida fan is irrelevant. I was about to put the Shoguns seven defining moments however i was beaten to it, rather than delete that post and start a new thread with shoguns I left it....

I know you only have 135 posts so your still learning the way we do things around here but understand this......Seven defining moments come from the UFC always before big fights....thats why they were posted.....


*LOUD AND CLEAR....DropKicker*

Your subtle attempts to bait will not be tolerated, consider this a warning and understand we strive to bring the best info to our memnbers we can, regardless of whether were fans or not....


We def may have a troll.......but I think he's located in this thread....

LOL..."Kids these days"......I'm a 30 yr old that runs an investment banking firm dude......

If you are not going to post anything constructive please dont post.....again this is to be taken as a warning.

CC420


----------



## SUR1109

coldcall420 said:


> Im going with Machida......:confused05:
> 
> CC420


nice read i think it will be a great fight


----------



## DropKicker

coldcall420 said:


> Just so you understand My intention......we do a seven defining moments post for all up comming fights. because the O.P. happen to be a Machida fan is irrelevant. I was about to put the Shoguns seven defining moments however i was beaten to it, rather than delete that post and start a new thread with shoguns I left it....
> 
> I know you only have 135 posts so your still learning the way we do things around here but understand this......Seven defining moments come from the UFC always before big fights....thats why they were posted.....
> 
> 
> *LOUD AND CLEAR....DropKicker*
> 
> Your subtle attempts to bait will not be tolerated, consider this a warning and understand we strive to bring the best info to our memnbers we can, regardless of whether were fans or not....
> 
> 
> We def may have a troll.......but I think he's located in this thread....
> 
> LOL..."Kids these days"......I'm a 30 yr old that runs an investment banking firm dude......
> 
> If you are not going to post anything constructive please dont post.....again this is to be taken as a warning.
> 
> CC420


Read all my posts not only in this thread but also other threads...and you'll understand that I don't BS around here.. I just give factual & informative detailed opinions... if you don't like it you shouldn't read it. It's funny that I get neg rep for every Machida thread without even talking bad about Machida the fighter... HA!...


----------



## coldcall420

DropKicker said:


> And the point of this thread is...??? As if there weren't already enough Machida nut hugging in many other threads...





DropKicker said:


> How about this one..."Why I'm squeezing Machida's nutts so tight".... dude, we know your intention here is praising the man... and that's your opinion... but if there were a thread for everyone's favorite fighter also... don't you think we'd have a trolling problem here... do the math kid... Im done with you... I hope Machida doesn't lose his next fight... people may cry & commit suicide it seems:thumbsdown: kids these days....:confused02:
> 
> 
> 
> :sarcastic12::cheeky4:





DropKicker said:


> Read all my posts not only in this thread but also other threads...and you'll understand that I don't BS around here..* I just give factual & informative detailed opinions*... if you don't like it you shouldn't read it. It's funny that I get neg rep for every Machida thread without even talking bad about Machida the fighter... HA!...


 
I do read all your posts you state you dont BS around here....look above this statement......The bold part is the best...."factual opinions"

You prob get neg repped cuz you antagonize people and its referred to as "baiting"

You were just warned, then infracted as you didnt heed the warning.....

If you have any further need, please PM as not to disturb the thread any further...

CC420


----------



## dafunguru

lol @ Penn vs. Machida, Penn looks so chubby!!!


----------



## FredFish1

Even with Penn's new strength and conditioning, he still looks pudgy  lethal though...


----------



## coldcall420

dafunguru said:


> lol @ Penn vs. Machida, Penn looks so chubby!!!


 
LOL....So is Machida.....:thumbsup:


CC420


----------



## Biowza

*Do you care about Couture vs Vera?*

Well, UFC 105 is not too far away now and I can't help but notice the total lack of discussion/acknowledgement of this fight. So I was just wondering people's thoughts on this whole situation. 

I for one thought that this fight is so damn stupid and really couldn't care less about it. Lately Vera has been boring as all hell and I just refuse to care about any fights he's in. And Couture? I get it he's "challenging himself" but if you're doing that, do it against someone who is actually a challenge. All he's going to do is his "masterful gameplan" of bullying a Vera against the cage for 15 minutes. 

I mean, I'll watch the fight anyway but I just feel there are so many better fights they could have put on.


----------



## xeberus

Can't say im very excited for it, but I would watch couture fight diabetes so I'll take a look but meh


----------



## wakeboy

Yes i love watching vera fight. I hope he knocks randy out so he gains a bigger fan base an moves up in the lhw ranks.


----------



## joshua7789

Biowza said:


> Well, UFC 105 is not too far away now and I can't help but notice the total lack of discussion/acknowledgement of this fight. So I was just wondering people's thoughts on this whole situation.
> 
> I for one thought that this fight is so damn stupid and really couldn't care less about it. Lately Vera has been boring as all hell and I just refuse to care about any fights he's in. And Couture? I get it he's "challenging himself" but if you're doing that, do it against someone who is actually a challenge. All he's going to do is his "masterful gameplan" of bullying a Vera against the cage for 15 minutes.
> 
> I mean, I'll watch the fight anyway but I just feel there are so many better fights they could have put on.


I care about this fight. Also, I think Vera is a terrible match up for Couture. Couture uses his clinch game to bully people around, he wont be able to do that with Vera. Coutures wrestling adavantage inst that large in this fight, Vera is much faster then Couture, and Vera is a lot harder to hit then anyone Couture has fought in recent history. Vera is a very patient fighter who wont get sucked into Coutures game. To sum it all up, I care about this fight because it is the start of Vera becoming a title contender and the beginning of the end for Randy Couture.


----------



## Xerxes

Meh... 

This was really a last minute ME they put together. Guess it's ok for a free card. 

Im more looking forward to Hardy/Swick than Randy/Vera.


----------



## cdtcpl

I am, it will tell us who is really here. The Vera that first showed up in the UFC should be able to easily handle Couture. The Couture of old should be able to destroy any non-top tier fighter. This will tell us if either of them is back, or if both of them are done. For me it is exciting not for the match up, but what we can potentially learn about each fighter.


----------



## Halebop

Yes. It almost happened once if Vera had beaten Sylvia but I will be happy to see it at 205. I still like Vera and I like Couture as well. Seems like a fantastic fight to me.


----------



## Walker

joshua7789 said:


> I care about this fight. Also, I think Vera is a terrible match up for Couture. Couture uses his clinch game to bully people around, he wont be able to do that with Vera. Coutures wrestling adavantage inst that large in this fight, Vera is much faster then Couture, and Vera is a lot harder to hit then anyone Couture has fought in recent history. Vera is a very patient fighter who wont get sucked into Coutures game. To sum it all up, I care about this fight because it is the start of Vera becoming a title contender and the beginning of the end for Randy Couture.



I agree. :thumbsup:

Vera was down for awhile after his long layoff but now I think he has come back to the potential he showed early on, at the right weight class, and Randy may not be completely done but I think the clock is ticking(though I'm not happy about it).


----------



## wukkadb

Yes, I'm excited for this fight.


----------



## CornbreadBB

Not even slightly interested....if this wasn't free, no way I'd buy this card. Randy is going to lay on Vera for 15 minutes.


----------



## wukkadb

CornbreadBB said:


> Not even slightly interested....if this wasn't free, no way I'd buy this card. Randy is going to lay on Vera for 15 minutes.


This is true, except Vera will look really good in this fight and do cool muay thai kicks and knees... watch!


----------



## flexor

joshua7789 said:


> I care about this fight. Also, I think Vera is a terrible match up for Couture. Couture uses his clinch game to bully people around, he wont be able to do that with Vera. Coutures wrestling adavantage inst that large in this fight, Vera is much faster then Couture, and Vera is a lot harder to hit then anyone Couture has fought in recent history. Vera is a very patient fighter who wont get sucked into Coutures game. To sum it all up, I care about this fight because it is the start of Vera becoming a title contender and the beginning of the end for Randy Couture.


I'm still not convinced Vera is there at 205.

And I also think that had Machida Won more convincingly, the winner of this fight would have gone to the front of the line for the 205 strap. Maybe not so much now.


----------



## WouldLuv2FightU

Biowza said:


> Well, UFC 105 is not too far away now and I can't help but notice the total lack of discussion/acknowledgement of this fight. So I was just wondering people's thoughts on this whole situation.
> 
> I for one thought that this fight is so damn stupid and really couldn't care less about it. Lately Vera has been boring as all hell and I just refuse to care about any fights he's in. And Couture? I get it he's "challenging himself" but if you're doing that, do it against someone who is actually a challenge. All he's going to do is his "masterful gameplan" of bullying a Vera against the cage for 15 minutes.
> 
> I mean, I'll watch the fight anyway but I just feel there are so many better fights they could have put on.


I agree 100%. This matchup is weak.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Free = me being interested.


----------



## khoveraki

If I'm home and it's on and I remember I'll definitely watch it. I certainly wont skip college and turn off the phone like I am for the Strikeforce card though. If I forget to watch Couture vs Vera it definitely wont be a big deal though.


----------



## faustus34

zero interest


----------



## streetpunk08

lol I love the thread title and no I dont care about Couture vs Vera, Couture is done imo, and Vera hasn't looked good since before the Sylvia loss. I'll watch it because it's free but if it wasn't I definitely wouldn't and I honestly wouldn't even look the results up, this match up is mad weak and the worst part is even though Randy got wrecked in his last 2 fights he'll probly be in contention if he wins.


----------



## Hammerlock2.0

Canadian Psycho said:


> Free = me being interested.


Bingo!


----------



## starbug

I'm always interested when Randy fights. More looking forward to the hardy v swick fight though, should be banging.


----------



## M.C

It's interesting. I like both guys and it's not as if we're watching Leben vs. Silva II or something, it should be a somewhat competitive, interesting, fun fight. I don't complain about fights often, a fight is a fight, and if you have Randy in it then it's definitely worth the watch in general.


----------



## mattreis324

Randy is a legend who might not have too many fights left. I'm interested in him fighting anyone.


----------



## TERMINATOR

It will be a good fight but honestly doesnt interest me much


----------



## Samborules

I actually like this card better than UFC 106 now, LOL.

Randy continues to be must see TV, his record is not super impressive but has her ever faced a gimme opponent? All his fights are tough ones and the lanky and athletic Vera fits that profile. I still think Randy wins. Kang vs. Bisping is a solid fight as well, same for Swick/Hardy. 

Plus we get to see Wilks, someone I am sure UFC eventually hopes to rise up and maybe challenge GSP?

Not great but better than 106!


----------



## Soojooko

It's a fight. I'll watch!

Yea, on paper not the hottest line up, but do you guys have short memories? How many meh looking matchups turn out to be corkers? I've been surprised so many times that I'll watch every fight I can.:thumb02:

Swick vs Hardy is the one that gets my nuts warm though.


----------



## NikosCC

I love to see Randy kick azz.. but im not really excited about this fight.


----------



## Phailbot

I am VERY interested in this card...

1) It's free, and you can't beat free! 
2) It gives me an excuse to have people over the house to drink alcohol and eat pizza.


----------



## DrHouse

This fight interests me enough. It's got 2 fighters looking to prove themselves in this division, it's in the UK so I wont have to stay up until 6 AM to catch the main event, it has Randy Couture who is one of my favourite fighters and to be honest this will be one of the last times we get to see him in the octagon, especially if he loses, so I think we should take this opportunity. It might just be Couture laying on Vera for 15 minutes, but it's still all of those things I said above.


----------



## TraMaI

Not really. I'm pretty sure Randy is going to win, but I could really care less about the winner TBH. But it's free and it should be good, so meh. Much more excited about Swick/Hardy


----------



## locnott

I will watch, I admire Randy and what he has done in the UFC..The fact that it will be free kinda makes it an easy choice for me..


----------



## Davisty69

I'm a fan of any fight with either Randy or Cro Cop in. Plus, it is free, so done and done.


----------



## enceledus

good main event for a freebie... definitely not interesting enough to pay for. Couture is going to push Vera against the cage for 3 rounds..... exciting :sarcastic12:


----------



## The Don

I think the general sentiment is that if this were not free.. this would cost the UFC money.. being Free were all going to tune in..


----------



## DrHouse

I think a few people (including myself) aren't grasping exactly what the TS is asking. The TS is asking about this particular fight and people are talking about the event as a whole, I did it so I'm not criticising, just looking to clear things up. But yes this fight and the whole card interests more a couple of reasons other than just the quality of the fights.


----------



## CornbreadBB

wukkadb said:


> This is true, except Vera will look really good in this fight and do cool muay thai kicks and knees... watch!


I sees it like this, Vera will throw a badly timed knee or leg and Randy will catch it and commence with buttsecks. Only thing good about the event besides being free is that I can get drunk as bollocks and not care if I black out or not.


----------



## Emericanaddict

I have to be excited im going to the event and it's gonna be awesome to be under the same roof as Captain America. Hoping to god i can score an autograph at some point. I imagine outside of the UFC brass and employees ill be one of the few Americans there.


----------



## ufcrules

no no no


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

Yes, it's easy $ on Couture.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

I'm excited for it, because its a solid fight. Not every fight has to be for a title or between the two top names every damn time. I just like seeing two athletes trying to best eachother. Vera is terribly boring and massively overrated, but Randy has a way of making every fight entertaining. Hopefully he smashes the arrogance out of that punk.


----------



## alizio

hell, i barely cared enough to open this thread til now.... hopefully Randy getting a title shot will be snubbed, beating Vera is hardly proof of deserving anything more then staying in the UFC.


----------



## Samborules

alizio said:


> hell, i barely cared enough to open this thread til now.... hopefully Randy getting a title shot will be snubbed, beating Vera is hardly proof of deserving anything more then staying in the UFC.


Coutoure has a big following, if he wins, thats more money for him and for the UFC. I liked his bout vs. Nog, very entertaining and Coutoure is a warrior if nothing else.


----------



## alizio

i agree, he is popular and at times invovled in some exciting fights... but he has budded to the front of the line enough times now, hasnt he??

UFC wants a big draw and an exciting fight?? If/when he beats Vera, sacrifice him at the altar of one Anderson Silva. He could be Machida's LHW bodyguard. Get thru him, you get Machida... blah, nvm, we will never see the belt defended that way


----------



## Samborules

LOL

Its funny, the fact that he is 47 and still competing is so impressive though.


----------



## kano666

Soojooko said:


> It's a fight. I'll watch!
> 
> Yea, on paper not the hottest line up, but do you guys have short memories? How many meh looking matchups turn out to be corkers? I've been surprised so many times that I'll watch every fight I can.:thumb02:
> 
> Swick vs Hardy is the one that gets my nuts warm though.


I agree, lots of the best fights don't seem that awesome beforehand. I'm looking forward to Swick vs Hardy, but even more to Bisping vs Kang. 

War Kang!


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## Seperator88

are you kidding, i would probably pay 50 bucks just to see Randy whoop Verra for 3 rounds straight, but honestly, i think you guys are writing this fight off a little early, don't be suprised to see it closer than you think. Verra is gonna come into this ready, and after the last couple fights, im kind of questioning Randy's chin, im his biggest fan but that Nog fight had me on the edge of my seat gripping the arm rest praying he didn't get knocked out.


And come on, it's always fun to watch him fight


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## Guymay

iCare


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## Scorch

I am very excited about this fight. I think its a really good one. It will tell us a lot of stuff. Like: Does Randy still have it? Can he still hang with the younger guys? Can Vera take on and beat a Legend? What will be next for the winner?


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## Wookie

I'm not all that excited for it. The fact it is free will be the best part because I don't think I would have ordered it or wasted money at the bar on it. It will be interesting to see what happens after the fight though because I get the feeling if Vera loses he might have to find a new job.


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## Seperator88

Wookie said:


> I'm not all that excited for it. The fact it is free will be the best part because I don't think I would have ordered it or wasted money at the bar on it. It will be interesting to see what happens after the fight though because I get the feeling if Vera loses he might have to find a new job.



but more importantly if Randy loses he will almost definetely have to find a new job, if he can't beat a LHW that isn't even ranked in the top 10, what then? keep him around as a gate guardian?


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## JWP

mattreis324 said:


> Randy is a legend who might not have too many fights left. I'm interested in him fighting anyone.


This, and also ill be there to watch!

I was originally trying to get motivated to see lil nog v hendo, whoch wouldve been ok, but was thrilled to hear Randy was in. Been watchin him for years and my first live event so cheeerin. I dont think it would really matter who he was fighting, unless it was another 'legend'

I expect him to do a gonzaga on vera

and there are a few UK dudes who are knocking on the door and it will be interesting to see who comes to the party.

not many big names but i think some decent fights will be had!


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## hvendlor

Apart from the main event I think there's more fights I wanna see on this card than there was at UFC 104.

Wilkes vs Brown, Bisping vs Kang and Swick vs Hardy are 3 great fights.The headliner is meh but should be a great night.


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## Carlitoz3

Can't really complain about this fight since it is free on Spike


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## N1™

i would rather watch 5 everybody loves raymond episodes than paying for this event


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## DJ Syko

of course il watch it, buts it doesnt really interest me.


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## the1nicko

UFC 105 isnt going to be pay per view? I actually very interested in the fight but I wouldnt pay for it. I am just interested in seeing who wins. I am a big fan of Vera so I hope he wins. I really want to see Dan Hardy fight. But if its free I will definitely watch it.

I agree with andrewp I think its time for Couture to really retire, same with Chuck Liddell.


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## nima24

im going to it so i care lol, im just excited to be seeing Randy fight live, but the Hardy fight is the fight i care about the most, should be a good fight


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## Biowza

*Why do fighters do it?*

We saw it in fights like Winner/Delgado, Henderson/Bisping, Rampage/Wanderlei 3, Gonzaga/Crocop, the list goes on and on. 

Why do fighters throw those unnessecary punches or strikes once their opponent is already out cold? I don't buy that "heat of the moment" argument, because it is clear to everyone watching the fight (and I would think especially the fighter's opponent) that one fighter is out cold and any further strikes are simply not needed. 

I think, that if there were to be a serious injury in the UFC it would come by way of an unnessecary strike once the opponent is out. I don't think the refs are to blame because these KO's happen fast and they cant always get there in time. The problem I think lies with the fighter, they need to understand that if their opponent is out, you don't *need* to risk serious damage by a flurry of power punches against a lifeless opponent.

Also, I'm certainly not against finishing a fight, but there is a huge difference between winning a fight by TKO and throwing stupid strikes against an already KO'd opponent.


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## NZL

I am going to go out on a limb and say you aren't someone who earns a paycheck or can advance your career by winning fights? 

The fight isn't won until a the ref steps in, I am sure you know that.
There is so much riding on these fights for these guys. I think every single one of them would rather punch someone when they didnt need to, than let a victory slip away because they thought someone was out cold, when they aren't.

This isn't ballet. Why do people constantly bring this topic up? They are paid to win fights.

And win fights they do. I think you are a fan of the wrong sport if you find this a problem.


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## 420atalon

I understand that you have to keep going if there is a chance your opponent may get back up but in fights like the Winner Delgado and Henderson Bisping it is pretty obvious the opponent was completely out of it and absolutely no reason for the brutal punches afterwards.


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## khoveraki

Meh, Mousasi has the class enough to stop when he KNOWS someone is out. But at the same time, where do you draw the line? When he KO'd Jacare by upkick he punched him a few times after he dropped, would you penalize him for that?

Or how do you judge when to punish a fighter? Not all cases will be obvious like Rampage vs Wanderlei III.






So what... should he get his pay docked? Or have the fight ruled a no contest? Or no penalty at all? 

Who gets to choose when it's wrong or right? 


It's up to the ref to step in, and I doubt there's ever going to be a case of a serious injury after the fighter was unconcious. Usually the KO punch does the most damage.


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## cdtcpl

I think until the ref jumps in it is all fair. Now when Rampage was fighting the ref to continue punching there clearly needs to be some form of penalty or suspension, as the refs are there to protect the fighters and you are stopping them from doing their job.


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## joshua7789

It depends on who is layed out on the mat. If it is an asshole like Sokoudjou who fought with the ref to continue when he beat Jan Norte and Bob Sapp, let his silly ass take as many extra shots as possible. Honestly though, there is to much gray area to make a firm rule on this, it would have to be on a completely case by case basis which would leave to much room for arguement. Keep it like it is now, its fair game until the ref stops it.


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## diablo5597

One solution can be that they are not allowed to, or are less likely to get KO of the night if whoever picks the winner of that decides there were unnecessary shots after they were KO'd. That way they can still keep destroying the guy if they want with no worry about getting in any trouble, but they won't if they want a sweet win bonus. That should prevent them from throwing extra shots when they KNOW that they are out.


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## CornbreadBB

This horse has already been made into glue, but since this is a thread you made and it is suprisingly not inflammatory, I can has answer.

I imagine the it's much harder from the fighter's perspective to know that the person it out. Also, what if the person is not out and the one that through the kick or punch let's off and ends up losing the fight?

Not a great angle, but what if while Hansen while celebrating, (because he thought he was out) Imanari got him in a knee bar that that Hansen couldn't spin out off? That shit would have about 12,000 threads on here saying how stupid he was. 






As I said before, fighter's job is to fight, ref's job is to ref...seems simple enough.


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## out 4 the count

It is a bit unsporting, and most people would rather cheer for a guy with honour. Then again at the same time, Hendo earned lots of respect for that punch on Bisping, I guess it works both ways. 

Ultimately though, both fighters know the risks and fight willingly. You fight until it the bell or the ref stops it. It is one of the most violent sports in the world - the very idea of it is to inflict injury onto your opponent to stop him.

Anybody who has been in a real fight can tell you that when your adrenaline is pumping, especially if you have bad blood with your victim, primal instinct will usually take over.


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## Icculus

Biowza said:


> We saw it in fights like Winner/Delgado, Henderson/Bisping, Rampage/Wanderlei 3, Gonzaga/Crocop, the list goes on and on.
> 
> Why do fighters throw those unnessecary punches or strikes once their opponent is already out cold? I don't buy that "heat of the moment" argument, because it is clear to everyone watching the fight (and I would think especially the fighter's opponent) that one fighter is out cold and any further strikes are simply not needed.
> 
> I think, that if there were to be a serious injury in the UFC it would come by way of an unnessecary strike once the opponent is out. I don't think the refs are to blame because these KO's happen fast and they cant always get there in time. The problem I think lies with the fighter, they need to understand that if their opponent is out, you don't *need* to risk serious damage by a flurry of power punches against a lifeless opponent.
> 
> Also, I'm certainly not against finishing a fight, but there is a huge difference between winning a fight by TKO and throwing stupid strikes against an already KO'd opponent.


What if you're fighting a guy like Randy who can take shots like that but snap back into it by the time they hit the ground? 
IMHO it is fully on the ref to jump in and grab the other fighter.

But I do agree that those shots on a defenseless opponent can be extremely dangerous, I just think its a matter of the refs acting quicker.


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## name goes here

out 4 the count said:


> Then again at the same time, Hendo earned lots of respect for that punch on Bisping,


Earned respect / loved by angry sadists, slight difference 

I agree with the idea of with holding the fight/ ko of the night bonus.


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## Chileandude

It's all about the ref jumping in time, my problem is when guys keep trying to fight when the ref is trying to stop it.

Like that Sokky fight or Wand/Page 3


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## wukkadb

I say you don't stop fighting until the ref stops you. However, there are *some* cases where it's obvious the fighter is done, so you should not follow up with strikes. 

On the other hand, sometimes people play it off like the fights over which is even worse IMO. A good example is Thiago vs Koscheck... although I think the stoppage was good, I bet it would have lasted longer if Thiago went to the ground with him instead of just doing nothing and acting like he already won.


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## Brutus

its simple, always remember to double-tap


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## Biowza

I think I should make it clear that I am talking about punching or striking an already KNOCKED OUT opponent. As in, his body is lifeless. The examples I gave were good examples of that.

Imagine the ref is really slow to stop it. How many more hits do you think Delgado or Bisping would have taken before it got ridiculous? Fighter's aren't caged animals incapable of rational thought, if a fighter is out...clearly out...you don't hit them any more, simple as that.


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## truebluefan

A collection of threads restored


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