# Thiago Alves vs GSP



## Tilen (Jun 20, 2007)

so after tonight's performance who do you think take this one?


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## SuzukS (Nov 11, 2006)

I think GSP can and will take Alves down and basically out-point him, if not TKO him from the top. Koscheck's wrestling looked off-point tonight, which is likely from not training his wrestling recently, but GSP's wrestling is superior and he most likely will be able to get Alves down. If this fight stays standing however, Alves should have an advantage - which is why GSP won't look to keep it there for long.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I'll take GSP. If KOS gets a rematch I'd take him as well with a full training camp for thiago.


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## Joni (Oct 20, 2008)

Awesome match-up! Can't wait for it to happen so please UFC make it happen.

It should be a close fight.. Alves has super dangerous stand-up so if the fight stays on the feet I give Alves the upper hand. If GSP manages to wrestle Alves to the ground he should be the better man though.

I think the match would be very close, don't see either one dominating the other.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

I think Alves will have the slight advantage standing up, but I think GSP will be able to take him down.

Can't really call this fight right now, but I'll have a better thinking on this fight in a few weeks or so.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

GSP will "Jon Fitch" Thiago Alves, eat him raw.


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## bileye (Feb 7, 2008)

I'm leaning towards GSP. But I think it'll be a very tough fight no matter what!


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

after last nights performance and displayed tdd...I'm going with Thiago Alves


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## Bazza89 (Dec 31, 2006)

I took GSP but I think Alves is his most dangerous opponent and can make a real fight out of it. Unlike Fitch he has an advantage in one area (standup) albeit a slight one IMO. 

I'd still like to see him make 170 first though, I know its only a pound but him coming in a 171 all the time doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.


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## The Finisher (Mar 23, 2008)

Give me Thiago. GSP's chin is suspect, Thiago will test it out. And I don't think he will be able to get Thiago down at will as well.

Forget GSP vs Anderson, I want to see this first.


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

honestly i pick thiago. his tdd is incredible and his striking is better than gsp


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

The Finisher said:


> Give me Thiago. GSP's chin is suspect, Thiago will test it out. And I don't think he will be able to get Thiago down at will as well.
> 
> Forget GSP vs Anderson, I want to see this first.


I doubt GSP's chin is "suspect"- Serra's punch was behind the ear that wobbled him and led to the TKO.

I thought Alves looked great vs. Koscheck- but Kos was coming in off a 2 week notice- which definitely showed last night.

GSP is a different animal completely than Kos and has waaaaay more tools to utilize against Alves.

I do think this fight would be an epic match-up and it sucks that it will be delayed for so long but when it goes down I'll be pumped to see.

I gots GSP winning this but it will be super tough.​


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

i see it going to decision, gsp needs to fight thiago not ******* BJ!


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## VoiceOfThunder (Apr 23, 2007)

Isn't gsp fighting BJ? If BJ wins, then he would have to fight Alves, right?


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

VoiceOfThunder said:


> Isn't gsp fighting BJ? If BJ wins, then he would have to fight Alves, right?


BJ and GSP are fighting in at the end of Jan. on the Super Bowl card, but no worries GSP ain't losing to him. :thumbsup:

And with that long of a layoff I dunno if Alves will want to fight again before that match-up.​


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## gm2685 (Aug 27, 2006)

Thiago would be his toughest opponent yet, if he beats Penn.Those leg kicks are brutal. It should be noted though that GSP would have a 6 inch reach advantage against Thiago. I don't think GSP will be able to get him down all the time successfully. Alves is just too strong.


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## bileye (Feb 7, 2008)

I really think Thiago should get another fight in before the possibility of GSP, especially considering it could be a while yet!


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## Racerboy44 (Jun 24, 2007)

I think GSP will take him down and GNP him out.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

bileye said:


> I really think Thiago should get another fight in before the possibility of GSP, especially considering it could be a while yet!


he probably will have to. Simply because BJ is ****ing up 2 divisions with his massive ego.

He deserved the shot BJ is getting IMO. But hey I've only been saying that for months .


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

YEa but with who?


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## Tripod87 (Dec 30, 2007)

This fight is so interesting. I don't think Alves has a slight edge in the standup, I'm going to go ahead and say he has a pretty significant edge in the stand up. If he can mask those leg kicks with jabs and combos like he did in his fight with Koscheck, he can really beat GSP. Walker, you said Koscheck's wrestling looked off, and yes some of it may be due to to the 2 weeks notice, but I promise you most of it was due to those vicious leg kicks. You just can't plant and drive well after taking that kind of punishment.

Alves's TDD looked great and has looked great, and although I think GSP will eventually take him down, I feel he will take quite a bit of damage before doing so. I'm pretty intrigued with this eventual matchup.


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## JWP (Jun 4, 2007)

dontazo said:


> YEa but with who?


How about Fitch?


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## SlammedSL1 (Jul 22, 2006)

Alves is going to get manhandled just like Fitch did. Standup or on the ground. GSP is too quick, I hope I remember I posted this so I can bust the quote out after that fight is over (win or lose lol) I try not to sound like a GSP nuthugger, but people constantly underrate his striking, and apparently, his takedowns now too? No one can stop GSP from throwing them around like a ragdoll. It makes for an interesting fight, probably quite exciting, but not much different then the Fitch fight imo.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

SlammedSL1 said:


> Alves is going to get manhandled just like Fitch did. Standup or on the ground. GSP is too quick, I hope I remember I posted this so I can bust the quote out after that fight is over (win or lose lol) I try not to sound like a GSP nuthugger, but people constantly underrate his striking, and apparently, his takedowns now too? No one can stop GSP from throwing them around like a ragdoll. It makes for an interesting fight, probably quite exciting, but not much different then the Fitch fight imo.


GSP hasn't fought anyone like Thiago. In size or style. You can't shoot on a guy like Thiago. he's a wrestler's nightmare.

I wouldn't say that Thiago is some shoe in for the win or something but I do firmly believe that he has a better chance of beating GSP than anyone GSP has fought or will fight in the near future.


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## Tilen (Jun 20, 2007)

the deciding question is: could GSP take Alves down :dunno:


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

I am still going with GSP but I definetly see the big chance ALves has to beat him expecially after last nights fight.

I think GSP is going to lose to BJ anyway though.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

I'd pick GSP.

Josh Koscheck's striking has improved but he's still too wild. Georges has much better technique and he has got way better movement. I think Georges would be able to get Alves down to the mat easier too, simply because he would set up his shots a lot better than Josh did against Thiago.

Thiago looked good last night, but I still think Georges would be able to push a pace he couldn't handle.


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## ShadyNismo (Jun 18, 2007)

Gsp will win, but it will be an amazing fight. :thumb02:


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## Meshuggeth (May 26, 2008)

GSP for sure. If anything, BJ has a better chance.


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## zarny (Mar 4, 2007)

Of course Alves has a shot; but GSP is the superior and more well-rounded fighter.

GSP and Greg Jackson will develop a game plan that neutralizes Thiago's leg kicks. As good as Thiago's takedown defense looked last night I don't think he'll stop GSP from taking him down.

Thiago won't take GSP down so the only place he can win the fight is standing up. GSP can potentially win standing up or on the ground.

I think GSP wins this fight but it should be good.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

zarny said:


> Of course Alves has a shot; but *GSP is the superior and more well-rounded fighter.
> *
> GSP and Greg Jackson will develop a game plan that neutralizes Thiago's leg kicks. As good as Thiago's takedown defense looked last night I don't think he'll stop GSP from taking him down.
> 
> ...


i think Alves has nullified that argument....Alves is a bjj blackbelt who is very strong. he's got better standup than gsp and he's got a more proven chin that gsp. kos even took gsp down in round 1.....kos couldn't get alves down once despite alot more attempts than when he fought gsp


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Aaronyman said:


> i think Alves has nullified that argument....Alves is a bjj blackbelt who is very strong. he's got better standup than gsp and he's got a more proven chin that gsp. kos even took gsp down in round 1.....kos couldn't get alves down once despite alot more attempts than when he fought gsp


If it goes to the ground Alves's blackbelt keeps him safe. He's kinda like chuck liddell in that sense. He avoids the ground because his standup is so good but don't think for a second he's just some pushover on the ground. He can handle himself.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

69nites said:


> If it goes to the ground Alves's blackbelt keeps him safe. He's kinda like chuck liddell in that sense. He avoids the ground because his standup is so good but don't think for a second he's just some pushover on the ground. He can handle himself.


i'm also realizing that physical strength really comes into play when fighting gsp on the ground too.....serra is a blackbelt but was at such a strength disadvantage gsp walked all over him on the ground.....fitch was alot stronger and did alot better on the ground ...defensively that is


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> i think Alves has nullified that argument....Alves is a bjj blackbelt who is very strong. he's got better standup than gsp and he's got a more proven chin that gsp. kos even took gsp down in round 1.....kos couldn't get alves down once despite alot more attempts than when he fought gsp


Because you know, black belts can't be outgrappled by other black belts? :dunno:

For stand-up, Alves has better kicks and knees than GSP, but GSP has better boxing and mixes up his strikes better. Chin-wise I'd say they're pretty even, considering they've both been tagged and only been TKO'd once a piece. Both guys have power, but I'd give Alves the edge, although I'd say GSP pushes a much faster pace.

Koscheck had a full training camp specifically for GSP, and he set-up his shots a lot better than he did against Alves, so I think a comparison there is kind of a stretch.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> Because you know, black belts can't be outgrappled by other black belts? :dunno:
> 
> For stand-up, Alves has better kicks and knees than GSP, but GSP has better boxing and mixes up his strikes better. Chin-wise I'd say they're pretty even, considering they've both been tagged and only been TKO'd once a piece. Both guys have power, but I'd give Alves the edge, although I'd say GSP pushes a much faster pace.
> 
> Koscheck had a full training camp specifically for GSP, and he set-up his shots a lot better than he did against Alves, so I think a comparison there is kind of a stretch.


but according to the countdown, kos trained no wrestling for gsp at all....so i don't think it's a big stretch...and gsp's boxing is not better than alves...especially in terms of striking defense....gsp gets tagged alot...and I'm not really sure how you can say he mixes things up better...until the Fitch fight he threw almost nothing but superman punches, jabs and leg kicks....alves has a much more diverse striking repertoire w/ more high kicks, inside and outside leg kicks, crosses and leg hooks (which dropped both fitch and kos in the first seconds of both fights...thought that was weird)


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> but according to the countdown, kos trained no wrestling for gsp at all....so i don't think it's a big stretch...


I don't remember Koscheck saying he trained no wrestling? Either way, you don't train 2 weeks for someone like Thiago Alves. 



Aaronyman said:


> and gsp's boxing is not better than alves...especially in terms of striking defense....gsp gets tagged alot...


GSP gets tagged a lot, but I'd say his hands are faster and he throws/lands more than Alves does.



Aaronyman said:


> and I'm not really sure how you can say he mixes things up better...until the Fitch fight he threw almost nothing but superman punches, jabs and leg kicks....alves has a much more diverse striking repertoire w/ more high kicks, inside and outside leg kicks, crosses and leg hooks (which dropped both fitch and kos in the first seconds of both fights...thought that was weird)


I find it strange that you completely ignore GSP's use of leg kicks, high kicks, spinning back kicks, superman punches, jabs (which he crushed Fitch with) and right crosses. GSP's just less predictable with his strikes, you could see Alves setting up his kicks, you never see him throw a fake then a leg kick, and he always follows the leg kick with a jab. GSP has probably got the most diverse skillset in MMA, I find it very hard to deny that.

Throughout his fight with Koscheck his patterns became quite clear, and Josh couldn't figure them out. GSP's a much smarter striker than Koscheck, and I think he mixes his strikes and takedowns a lot better, which is something Thiago would have to look out for more.

Thiago looked good, but I didn't see the complete mixed martial artist. I saw a guy with excellent takedown defense picking apart someone who thought they could prepare for him in 2 weeks, which is borderline crazy.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> I find it strange that you completely ignore GSP's use of leg kicks, high kicks, spinning back kicks, superman punches, jabs (which he crushed Fitch with) and right crosses. GSP's just less predictable with his strikes, you could see Alves setting up his kicks, you never see him throw a fake then a leg kick, and he always follows the leg kick with a jab. GSP has probably got the most diverse skillset in MMA, I find it very hard to deny that.
> 
> Throughout his fight with Koscheck his patterns became quite clear, and Josh couldn't figure them out. GSP's a much smarter striker than Koscheck, and I think he mixes his strikes and takedowns a lot better, which is something Thiago would have to look out for more.
> 
> Thiago looked good, but I didn't see the complete mixed martial artist. I saw a guy with excellent takedown defense picking apart someone who thought they could prepare for him in 2 weeks, which is borderline crazy.


i guess we're going to have to agree to disagree...i mean, I admit he opened up more in the Fitch fight, but look at the 2nd Serra fight or the Koscheck fight....very very bland striking....jab jab, leg kick, superman punch rinse and repeat....i would say alves has consistently been more diverse standing

and personally, i don't think you can say alves gets predictable b/c there is a long long list of fighters who haven't been able to figure alves movement out and while it may seem to the viewer that he gets predictable, i think if he was predictable he would have gotten figured out by someone by now


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

I dont think that the two week noticed really mattered. Koscheck said he had been training the whole time since his last fight and he was already trainging for Yoshida.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> i guess we're going to have to agree to disagree...i mean, I admit he opened up more in the Fitch fight, but look at the 2nd Serra fight or the Koscheck fight....very very bland striking....jab jab, leg kick, superman punch rinse and repeat....i would say alves has consistently been more diverse standing



I wouldn't say throwing a fake superman punch and following it up with a leg kick is bland, or throwing a punch and following it directly with a takedown is either. GSP used his striking in those fights to set-up taking the fight to the ground, which I think he does a hell of a lot better than anyone in MMA (except Fedor). 



Aaronyman said:


> and personally, i don't think you can say alves gets predictable b/c there is a long long list of fighters who haven't been able to figure alves movement out and while it may seem to the viewer that he gets predictable, i think if he was predictable he would have gotten figured out by someone by now


That's because Thiago hasn't faced anyone that strikes as well as GSP. The closest he's come is maybe Chris Lytle or Jon Fitch. Neither of those guys have a diversity to their offense that GSP has, especially standing.. which was quite visible in the Fitch/St.Pierre fight.

GSP will be the first real standing test for Thiago, and he will test Thiago as a mixed martial artist, not just as a stand-up fighter.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> I don't remember Koscheck saying he trained no wrestling? Either way, you don't train 2 weeks for someone like Thiago Alves.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Kos was already training for another fight.

He actually went and did a fitness test to see if he could be fighting at 100% in time for the fight before telling Dana he'd take it.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

steveo412 said:


> I dont think that the two week noticed really mattered. Koscheck said he had been training the whole time since his last fight and he was already trainging for Yoshida.


There's a difference between training and training for a specific fight. Yoshiyuki Yoshida and Thiago Alves are VERY different stylistically. It's stupid for anyone to think that they can just walk in and face a guy as dangerous as Thiago in 2 weeks when they've been training for someone who couldn't fight more differently.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> I wouldn't say throwing a fake superman punch and following it up with a leg kick is bland, or throwing a punch and following it directly with a takedown is either. GSP used his striking in those fights to set-up taking the fight to the ground, which I think he does a hell of a lot better than anyone in MMA (except Fedor).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thiago's striking test probably came when he became a Brazilian Muay Thai champion .


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

thiagos striking is better than gsp's imho . and he has an incredible tdd


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## putmeonhold (Jul 10, 2006)

*Gsp*

I disagree with the notion that Alves would have an advantage on GSP in any area. I give both strikingand ground game to GSP. I also give GSP the edge when it comes to experience, intelligence, and game plan, and game plan execution. Please do not misunderstand my sediments --> I do believe this would be an incredible fight and Alves has definatley erned the shot. I just think St. Pierre would pick Alves apart --> TKO 3rd round for GSP


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

GSP would take this IMO. Thiago's hands aren't anything special and I think GSP's are better. I also think GSP would be able to set up his shots better then Koscheck did.

Thiago better hope BJ doesn't win though IMO. Because I think BJ would KO Thiago standing because his hands are way better then Thiago's.


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## Future_Fighter (Feb 6, 2008)

Think ill go for thiago... But what if bj beats gsp? will we see thiago vs bj? If so thiago would also win imo...


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

Fedor>all said:


> There's a difference between training and training for a specific fight. Yoshiyuki Yoshida and Thiago Alves are VERY different stylistically. It's stupid for anyone to think that they can just walk in and face a guy as dangerous as Thiago in 2 weeks when they've been training for someone who couldn't fight more differently.


So what. It works the same way for Thiago, Diego and Koscheck are also totally different fighters, he had to change just as much as koscheck did in the same amount of time so the change really affected there training equally because they were originally both training for someone else.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Koscheck and Diego are very similar except Koscheck has better takedowns and Diego is more dangerous on the ground.

They both have very good boxing.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

There striking is totally different, Diegos pace is a lot more intense and his ground game is a lot different also. He is not as good of a wrestler as Kos but way more dangerous with subs.

In a fight with Diego he would have to train more JJ and with Kos he would have to strengthen his TDD intensly


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

thiago has a better chance beating bj imho


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> GSP would take this IMO. Thiago's hands aren't anything special and I think GSP's are better. I also think GSP would be able to set up his shots better then Koscheck did.
> 
> Thiago better hope BJ doesn't win though IMO. Because I think BJ would KO Thiago standing because his hands are way better then Thiago's.


uh....i would strongly disagree...i think alves has much better chance of beating bj than gsp does actually....alves is way bigger, stronger, enough tdd to keep it standing and has a pretty significant adv. standing ...he's got the best standup of anyone 170 and lower


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

Thiago does have excellent standup but I would never underestimate BJs hands. I have never seen anyone beat BJ on the feet.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

bbjd7 said:


> GSP would take this IMO. Thiago's hands aren't anything special and I think GSP's are better. I also think GSP would be able to set up his shots better then Koscheck did.
> 
> Thiago better hope BJ doesn't win though IMO. Because I think BJ would KO Thiago standing because his hands are way better then Thiago's.


with the size of BJ's legs he better hope he doesn't beat GSP because Alves's leg kicks will straight break his legs.  You're also talking about a 50 LBS difference in muscle mass. not to mention the reach advantage.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> uh....i would strongly disagree...i think alves has much better chance of beating bj than gsp does actually....alves is way bigger, stronger, enough tdd to keep it standing and has a pretty significant adv. standing ...he's got the best standup of anyone 170 and lower


I'm sure most people don't agree with me but I think BJ's hands are much better then Thiago and if Thiago kicks too much and gets put on his back BJ will destroy Thiago on his back.

I disagree with the fact he has the best stand up under 170 maybe the most power but his hands aren't anthing special at all.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

steveo412 said:


> Thiago does have excellent standup but I would never underestimate BJs hands. I have never seen anyone beat BJ on the feet.


well i refuse to acknowledge the gsp/bj fight as evidence as gsp was basically blind for the whole first round

matt hughes was picking bj apart in the 3rd round of their 2nd fight, albeit an injury apparently occured to bj's ribs

lyoto machida beat him standing but that was at a much higher weight class

and the first jens pulver fight..but that was too long ago to really consider


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I don't know I just think BJ's hands are way better then Thiago's.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> I'm sure most people don't agree with me but I think BJ's hands are much better then Thiago and if Thiago kicks too much and gets put on his back BJ will destroy Thiago on his back.
> 
> I disagree with the fact he has the best stand up under 170 maybe the most power but his hands aren't anthing special at all.


but he's proven time and time again he can take guys who primarily use their hands....alessio, kos, karo....alves hands aren't special but their still pretty good and bj has shown vulnerability to leg kicks in the past



> I don't know I just think BJ's hands are way better then Thiago's.


okay then...bj wins a boxing match against thiago...maybe....thiago should win the standup in mma tho


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

That's true I think BJ has much better hands then Kos, Alessio, or Karo.

BJ's hands are very good.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

bbjd7 said:


> I don't know I just think BJ's hands are way better then Thiago's.


why do you restict your views of fighters to things so specific.

overall striking is what matters. I could sit here and talk about how BJ legs pose the same amount of danger as a mosquito but that would be retarded. He's got hands, alves has kicks and knees. 

BJ is at a signifigant reach disadvantage and coming to the inside puts you at serious danger to get clinched and get your brain knee'd to mush.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> That's true I think BJ has much better hands then Kos, Alessio, or Karo.
> 
> BJ's hands are very good.


haha okay, but to be fair, you said kos had the better hands b/w him and alves...and alves hit kos so hard w/ a left hook he didn't know what strike hit (post fight conference)....


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> well i refuse to acknowledge the gsp/bj fight as evidence as gsp was basically blind for the whole first round
> 
> matt hughes was picking bj apart in the 3rd round of their 2nd fight, albeit an injury apparently occured to bj's ribs
> 
> ...


BJ vs hughes 2 and vs GSP was not the real BJ penn. he trained by seeing how many donuts he could eat in an hour and still won the standup in both those fights IMO. Hughes won the third while BJ was extremely gassed. and BJ controlled the standup vs GSP.

The lyoto fight even though he had a large size disadvantage I really didnt see anything that LYoto did to make him win that fight. Not saying BJ won either but I could see a draw there.

Jens did fight the fight of his life there no excuses but I would never consider him better than BJ, although his standup used to be awesome.

But who cares about those fights anyway, they were years ago. Everyone should be looking at how good BJs hands have looked as of late.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> haha okay, but to be fair, you said kos had the better hands b/w him and alves...and alves hit kos so hard w/ a left hook he didn't know what strike hit (post fight conference)....


That's true but during the whole fight Koscheck and Alves where pretty even in landing punches.

Now I will say Thiago has great kicks but if BJ catches one and takes him down I don't see him lasting long at all.

Thiago has amazing power but his hands really aren't that good I mean Koscheck tagged him a ton of times.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Thiago has amazing power but his hands really aren't that good I mean Koscheck *tagged him a ton of times.*


c'mon now....lol


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I'm serious Thiago ripped him apart with leg kicks but honestly they where pretty close when trading blows with their hands.

Thiago's hands really aren't anything special besides his huge power.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

Both of his big recent KOs have been from kness


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## Johnathanrs (Oct 8, 2008)

*My thoughts*

Seriously, GSP is one of my favorite fighter’s if not my favorite. But, I can’t believe how much people are over estimating him. GSP is well diverse in all areas including mentally/intelligence. Anyone who thinks GSP is stronger in his standup against Alves is a fool. I still give the fight to GSP, for one reason cardio/bursts. But, I think this fight will be even tougher for GSP then a fight with Silva, simply due to the TDD Alves has displayed. Also, anyone who states Koschek’s takedowns weren’t on par simply put you are wrong. His takedowns were extremely quick, and he shot in at good angles. He also faked a lot of those take downs, the only thing is Alves TDD was unbelievable. The reason is he is so compact, and is so strong that he powers his way through it. GSP beat Koschek by taking him down, and keeping him on his back. Koschek doesn’t have the best TDD defense, but his takedown with his wrestling style is second to none. This guy is a national champ wrestler, please don’t forget that. But, I believe Dana will force him to fight one more. Simply put, he is a popular fighter. 

I give the fight to GSP, but Alves can still win extremely close fight. The question is like someone stated can GSP take him down. 

Slight advantage to Alves on stand up.

Can GSP take Alves down? 

Slight advantage to GSP on the ground. 

Everything leads to Alves winning the fight in my opinion. The only reason I give it to GSP is the five rounds. Advantage to GSP on cardio, which I believe will dictate the fight due to it being 5 rounds. GSP should set a pace, Alves will struggle staying with. As he gets tired, I believe GSP should take him down and win by points. Both fighters can get knocked out standing, and I don’t believe either fighter will get submitted by the other.

Also, one more thing I forgot to mention; The fight is a long way from happening. By the time the fight finally comes it’s easily enough time for a fighter to greatly improve in an area. If Alves ups his cardio another level, we just might have a new champion in my opinion. The fight with BJ will answer a lot of questions in my eyes. Also, if Alves fight’s again while waiting for his title shot, which I don’t believe will happen in fears of losing his number 1 contender status. The thing is knowing Dana he will force Alves to fight again, especially the rising popularity of him as a fighter.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

69nites said:


> Thiago's striking test probably came when he became a Brazilian Muay Thai champion .


Yeah, but did he have to worry about being taken down by world class MMA wrestlers then? No. There are way more variables in MMA striking than straight up Muay Thai, so let's not make irrational comparisons. I'm not denying Thiago's MT skills, I'm stating that he hasn't fought a fighter in the UFC with stand-up as diverse or good as GSP's yet.




steveo412 said:


> So what. It works the same way for Thiago, Diego and Koscheck are also totally different fighters, he had to change just as much as koscheck did in the same amount of time so the change really affected there training equally because they were originally both training for someone else.


Yes, but Thiago is a terrible style match-up for Koscheck. He has excellent takedown defense and nasty knees/strikes. It's like the Coleman/Cro Cop match-up (although Koscheck is a better striker than Coleman). Thiago had the advantage standing, and once Koscheck realized he couldn't get the fight to the ground it was Thiago's match.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> Yes, *but Thiago is a terrible style match-up for Koscheck*. He has excellent takedown defense and nasty knees/strikes. It's like the Coleman/Cro Cop match-up (although Koscheck is a better striker than Coleman). Thiago had the advantage standing, and once Koscheck realized he couldn't get the fight to the ground it was Thiago's match.


yet another thing people say after a fight

EVERYONE was using the reference, "Kos will Jon Fitch his ass" "Kos will beat him worse than Fitch did"....Kos is arguably the best wrestler in mma and if he got him down, Alves was supposed to be helpless....

it's amazing, cuz even w/ taking this fight on short notice, Alves was still a betting underdog

Koscheck was tailor made to beat Alves...and couldn't....


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> Yeah, but did he have to worry about being taken down by world class MMA wrestlers then? No. There are way more variables in MMA striking than straight up Muay Thai, so let's not make irrational comparisons. I'm not denying Thiago's MT skills, I'm stating that he hasn't fought a fighter in the UFC with stand-up as diverse or good as GSP's yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


takedowns score points in Muay Thai too . Guys don't shoot like wrestlers for the same reason Kos didn't shoot on alves. They'll get KTFO.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

69nites said:


> takedowns score points in Muay Thai too . Guys don't shoot like wrestlers for the same reason Kos didn't shoot on alves. They'll get KTFO.


but he did shoot on alves....2nd round he takes a clean shot from the outside that only gsp has been able to defend...and alves stuffs it pretty easily


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

Fedor>all said:


> Yes, but Thiago is a terrible style match-up for Koscheck. He has excellent takedown defense and nasty knees/strikes. It's like the Coleman/Cro Cop match-up (although Koscheck is a better striker than Coleman). Thiago had the advantage standing, and once Koscheck realized he couldn't get the fight to the ground it was Thiago's match.


Thats koschecks own fault for taking the fight then. All I was saying is that nobody can use the excuse that he only had 2 weeks to train because he was training since his last fight awhile ago and that they both had to adjust to new opponents. The training was not unfair to Koscheck was the point I was making.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

steveo412 said:


> BJ vs hughes 2 and vs GSP was not the real BJ penn. he trained by seeing how many donuts he could eat in an hour and still won the standup in both those fights IMO. Hughes won the third while BJ was extremely gassed. and BJ controlled the standup vs GSP.
> 
> The lyoto fight even though he had a large size disadvantage I really didnt see anything that LYoto did to make him win that fight. Not saying BJ won either but I could see a draw there.
> 
> ...


Oh, come on, Hughes finished a guy who is nearly impossible to finish. Penn looked really good in the second Hughes fight (Until the third), so saying that it wasn't the real BJ is unfair. Sure, Penn wasn't training hard, but he showed up and was game. 

BJ won the first round in the Machida fight. Lyoto won due to landing some solid strikes and basically outworking Penn. The double stomp pretty much sealed the deal. Still, not a good performance from Machida. I ended up digging Penn much more than Lyoto in that fight. Clinch fest city.

Jens looked solid against Penn, no doubt, but that was a while back.

I agree that those losses don't mean much nowadays. People lose, it happens. Penn's been looking great lately.

I picked Kos to beat Alves, but man, Thiago looked really good and shut Kos the Boss down. Alves vs GSP would be a blast.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Aaronyman said:


> but he did shoot on alves....2nd round he takes a clean shot from the outside that only gsp has been able to defend...and alves stuffs it pretty easily


he shot once or twice in the whole fight. Why do you think the guy with the best takedowns in the divisions wasn't shooting more?


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

Damone said:


> Oh, come on, Hughes finished a guy who is nearly impossible to finish. Penn looked really good in the second Hughes fight (Until the third), so saying that it wasn't the real BJ is unfair. Sure, Penn wasn't training hard, but he showed up and was game.
> QUOTE]
> 
> K how about that wasnt the new better conditioned, better trained Penn. Skillwise he was there but so were the donuts


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Were the donuts there for Penn's first fight against Hughes?


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> yet another thing people say after a fight
> 
> *EVERYONE was using the reference, "Kos will Jon Fitch his ass" "Kos will beat him worse than Fitch did"....Kos is arguably the best wrestler in mma and if he got him down, Alves was supposed to be helpless....
> 
> ...



First of all, just because "Everyone is saying it", doesn't mean _I_ was saying it. In fact, I was undecided about the fight until probably an hour before I had to finalize my picks. I saw Alves as a bad match-up for Koscheck, and I underestimated his TDD. You can look at any of my posts, I was not saying Koscheck is a bad match-up for Alves and that he'd "Fitch" him.




steveo412 said:


> Thats koschecks own fault for taking the fight then. All I was saying is that nobody can use the excuse that he only had 2 weeks to train because he was training since his last fight awhile ago and that they both had to adjust to new opponents. The training was not unfair to Koscheck was the point I was making.


It is his fault. They both had to adjust to new opponents, but stylistically Thiago is a terrible match-up for Koscheck, moreso than Koscheck was for Alves. That was my point man.




69nites said:


> takedowns score points in Muay Thai too . Guys don't shoot like wrestlers for the same reason Kos didn't shoot on alves. They'll get KTFO.


lol, takedowns aren't anywhere near the same in Muay Thai. You have to let your opponent back to the feet in Muay Thai, whereas in MMA you have to work to get back there, which can be tough when a big strong BJJ blackbelt is on you like a rash.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> First of all, just because "Everyone is saying it", doesn't mean _I_ was saying it. In fact, I was undecided about the fight until probably an hour before I had to finalize my picks. I saw Alves as a bad match-up for Koscheck, and I underestimated his TDD. You can look at any of my posts, I was not saying Koscheck is a bad match-up for Alves and that he'd "Fitch" him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Alves has a reputable blackbelt himself . And walks about 10 lbs heavier than GSP 

Yes I have something in my eye.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

69nites said:


> Alves has a reputable blackbelt himself . And walks about 10 lbs heavier than GSP
> 
> Yes I have something in my eye.


I'm aware Alves has a blackbelt, I'm just stating the obvious; that there's a lot more to MMA striking than Muay Thai. If you screw up once, you can be on your back eating elbows for a round. Alves ground game hasn't really been tested, because he's been using the cage to get back to his feet when he's down there, how will he fare with a guy like GSP who has incredible top control/passing skills? That's what makes the match-up so interesting to me.

Both guys offer substantial threat to one another, I never saw Koscheck finishing Alves, I picked him to win a decision.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> I'm aware Alves has a blackbelt, I'm just stating the obvious; that there's a lot more to MMA striking than Muay Thai. If you screw up once, you can be on your back eating elbows for a round. Alves ground game hasn't really been tested, because he's been using the cage to get back to his feet when he's down there, how will he fare with a guy like GSP who has incredible top control/passing skills? That's what makes the match-up so interesting to me.
> 
> Both guys offer substantial threat to one another, I never saw Koscheck finishing Alves, I picked him to win a decision.


I do give GSP an edge on the ground and Alves an edge standing.

Using the cage to get back up is part of having a good ground game btw.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

Damone said:


> Were the donuts there for Penn's first fight against Hughes?



Ha didnt last long enough to tell, but by the look of his body compared to the way it looked against hughes the second time or the gsp fight I would say he was in better shape. He looked in good shape in the first pulver fight also


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

69nites said:


> I do give GSP an edge on the ground and Alves an edge standing.
> 
> Using the cage to get back up is part of having a good ground game btw.


I know, but how good is his ground game when he's taken down in the center of the octagon? That's something we don't know.


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## Entity (Aug 18, 2008)

I don't know why people think GSP has a suspect chin because of the Serra fight...

He took about 20 shots to the head, and was still awake, that's a pretty damn good chin if you ask me.


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## _Destruction_ (Oct 7, 2008)

GSP by ass kicking


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> I know, but how good is his ground game when he's taken down in the center of the octagon? That's something we don't know.


that's because whenever someone tries to take him down he makes a mad dash to the cage.


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

GSP's jab will end Alves in the 4th


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Entity said:


> I don't know why people think GSP has a suspect chin because of the Serra fight...
> 
> He took about 20 shots to the head, and was still awake, that's a pretty damn good chin if you ask me.


He has a good chin, but so does Karo, and well, we all know what happened to him when he faced Alves.

GSP would need to take Alves down, as Alves has better stand-up. I can see GSP taking Alves down repeatedly and feed him elbows.


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

he has an OK chin but no were near cote or leben


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## DiamondDash2k (Mar 4, 2007)

remember when everyone said gsp couldn't take down koscheck and he did and even out wrestled him..? GSP trains with Rashad Evans... a wrestler who is fighting in light heavyweight, tdd is great from alves and i am always a fan but everyone seems to think Alves is able to get in there to kill gsp.. GSP has a huge reach advantage -- superman punch and back kicks anyone?


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

DiamondDash2k said:


> remember when everyone said gsp couldn't take down koscheck and he did and even out wrestled him..? GSP trains with Rashad Evans... a wrestler who is fighting in light heavyweight, tdd is great from alves and i am always a fan but everyone seems to think Alves is able to get in there to kill gsp.. GSP has a huge reach advantage -- superman punch and back kicks anyone?


the reach advantage is a less signifigant advantage as your legs are longer than your arms and Alves primarily throws kicks.


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

Koscheck was foolish to try and stand with Alves. His wrestling also look pretty bad, he did not set them up nor did they have their usual explosiveness.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

GSP Alves could definetly be a pretty close fight, but it also could be another GSP domination fight. GSPs wrestling is second to none in the ww division, but Alves has great TDD. Striking lots of people are giving the advantage to Alves but really I think its pretty even. GSP has awesome kicks, whether they are leg kicks, head kicks or spin kicks. Alves also has good kicks. They both hit hard with there fists and show good all around striking. On the ground I give the advantage to GSP purely on what I have seen from him in the past, but havent seen much of alves down there but I have seen him get subbed. I am giving this fight to GSP but I wouldnt be super surprised if Alves got the upset.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

GSP because he's unstoppable lately, imho.


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

so is thiago


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## wafb (May 8, 2007)

I'm picking GSP just because we see a different GSP everytime. Besides, when Thiago fights GSP it won't be for the belt since Alves won't make weight.


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## Meshuggeth (May 26, 2008)

Maybe so, but I believe GSP is on another level.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Anything can happen between these two.

I beleive this would be an incredible fight. FOTN easy.


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## Pound&Mound (Dec 10, 2007)

I'll take GSP, he has a very nice reach advantage.

Striking is pretty even, Alves of course with the power strikes advantage.

I am mad impressed with Alves dominating the stand up with Kos though.

Kos made a mistake standing there absorbing those vicious leg kicks. He needed to work more on his wrestling which he failed to do, but his stand up looks great and he has a monster chin and recovery time.

I see GSP outpointing Alves in the stand up with jabs, and transitioning to a take-down very smoothly.

GSP via TKO top position Round 3-4.


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## bcbigdawg (Oct 15, 2006)

I like the Alves Gsp matchup...but I want to see Alves-Fitch 2 first....Stay with Penn fighting GSP The winner will wait for a 4 man tourney involving

Alves-Fitch 2

taking on the winner of

Leites-Sanchez


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## Meshuggeth (May 26, 2008)

Leites is a MW.


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

Leites-Sanchez /epic fail 
j/k if i was thiago i would ev waited for title shot


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## lpbigd4444 (Oct 1, 2008)

I know mma math doesn always work and Thiago is a better fighter now but Fitch beat him and GSP dominateds Fitch. I think GSPs standup is equal with Thiago and he will almost defenitely be able to take Alves down to ground and pound him or submit him. So assuming GSP beats Penn (i think he will)I think he will also beat Thiago. GSP imo is almost as dominant a welterweight as Silva is at Middleweight.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Standing, i think the advantage is clearly in Alves favour. Even if you think the skills on the feet are the same, Alves has power that George just doesn't. Frankly, i see it being fun as hell as a standup fight, with GSP being at bigger risk because of Alves potentially landing something really powerful.

But, we all know that's not how the fight plays out. GSP keeps Alves guessing on the feet until he gets him down, and like Damone said, feeds him elbows until Alves gives up a submission, crumbles under the pressure, or the clock runs out. Blackbelt or not, GSP is one too, only he has the best top control in the division, and the best takedowns in the sport.


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

If WW Thiago Alves shows up GSP will crush him, if the usual Alves shows up it's a toss up. Alves is probably the most underrated MW in the UFC...


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## bcbigdawg (Oct 15, 2006)

dontazo said:


> Leites-Sanchez /epic fail
> j/k if i was thiago i would ev waited for title shot


My bad dude....I was re-watching the leites fight and it got in my mind....I would like to see the Yoshida-Sanchez dual


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

cplmac said:


> If WW Thiago Alves shows up GSP will crush him, if the usual Alves shows up it's a toss up. Alves is probably the most underrated MW in the UFC...


these "alves is a not a ww" comments are getting really old


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> these "alves is a not a ww" comments are getting really old


Understood, but they are still accurate. There are a good half a dozen guys in the UFC fighting in the wrong weight class and he's one of them. It grates on the nerves for some of us that a guy gaming the system is being considered a top level fighter in a division he has no business fighting in, the same could be said for Anthony Johnson and Tavares as well. If you have to cut 20+ pounds to make weight you are fighting in the wrong division.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

cplmac said:


> Understood, but they are still accurate. There are a good half a dozen guys in the UFC fighting in the wrong weight class and he's one of them. It grates on the nerves for some of us that a guy gaming the system is being considered a top level fighter in a division he has no business fighting in, the same could be said for Anthony Johnson and Tavares as well. If you have to cut 20+ pounds to make weight you are fighting in the wrong division.


you're aware that he walks less than 10 lbs heavier than Kos right?

the second you hear wrestling background think big cut.

Alves is a big WW but would be a tiny MW.

also in reality your height determines what weight class you should be fighting in not so much your natural weight.

also consider 5-7 lbs are free. Colon evacuation clears that up. if you're fighting and don't cut 10+ lbs you're a fool. a 20 lbs cut would be about average. almost everyone cuts that much weight.


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## gm2685 (Aug 27, 2006)

69nites said:


> also consider 5-7 lbs are free. Colon evacuation clears that up. if you're fighting and don't cut 10+ lbs you're a fool. a *20 lbs cut would be about average. almost everyone cuts that much weight*.


Exactly..And you do know that Alves cuts about 35 pounds right? He walks around at 205.... So by your calculations, *205 lb - 20 lb avg =185 lb division!*


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

LOL! @ Koscheck walks around 10lbs heavier than Alves.

COMIC GOLD


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## leviticus (May 27, 2007)

GSP vs. Alves? Aren't we putting the cart before the horse? As a GSP nut hugger, he still has the Penn fight before this becomes a reality. Thiago looked solid against KOS, wether it was a short notice fight or not. Thiago has game and will definitely challenge GSP. However, I want to see how the Penn fight plays out before I start counting my chickens...


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## Pound&Mound (Dec 10, 2007)

leviticus said:


> GSP vs. Alves? Aren't we putting the cart before the horse? As a GSP nut hugger, he still has the Penn fight before this becomes a reality. Thiago looked solid against KOS, wether it was a short notice fight or not. Thiago has game and will definitely challenge GSP. However, I want to see how the Penn fight plays out before I start counting my chickens...


As a GSP nuthugger, you should know that he will literally RUN THROUGH PENN and TKO him pretty damn easily with Ground and Pound.


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## Grotty (Jul 21, 2006)

I cant see GSP wanting to trade unless he steps his muai thai, GSP isnt as strong as Alvez, Koscheck struggled to get Alvez down so i dont think GSP will find it much easier.
GSP will have a much better sub game so this is where i see the big threat fom him, saying all this GSP amazes me every fight and seems to develop himself in his opponents strong areas to take them on at their own game.
Alvez is dangerous, he is young, strong, cocky and because of that he wont over complicate his game plan should they meet, remember what Hughes said ? Hughes basically said it gets to a point you learn so much you forget the basics and find more reasons to lose.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

If we saw anything from his fight with KOS, GSP is far more adept at getting guys down. So KOS having difficulty really doesn't mean much.


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## SlammedSL1 (Jul 22, 2006)

Grotty said:


> GSP isnt as strong as Alvez.


lol wut?

I am really trying to give some of you guys the benefit of the doubt here, I'm assuming you haven't been watching MMA as much as some guys here. Just because Alves WALKS AROUND at 190, doesn't make him stronger than GSP. Functional strength is something you work for, and not just given to you because you look jacked. Don't miscontrue this as nuthugging on GSP because I know full well Alves will be one of GSP's biggest tests to date, but that doesn't change the fact that he will walk through Alves like he has everyone else lately.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

SlammedSL1 said:


> lol wut?
> 
> I am really trying to give some of you guys the benefit of the doubt here, I'm assuming you haven't been watching MMA as much as some guys here. Just because Alves WALKS AROUND at 190, doesn't make him stronger than GSP. Functional strength is something you work for, and not just given to you because you look jacked. Don't miscontrue this as nuthugging on GSP because I know full well Alves will be one of GSP's biggest tests to date, but that doesn't change the fact that he will walk through Alves like he has everyone else lately.


alves doesn't walk around 190. GSP walks around 190.

Alves walks around 205.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

gm2685 said:


> Exactly..And you do know that Alves cuts about 35 pounds right? He walks around at 205.... So by your calculations, *205 lb - 20 lb avg =185 lb division!*


I'm very aware of his cut. I personally cut from 215 to 185.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> LOL! @ Koscheck walks around 10lbs heavier than Alves.
> 
> COMIC GOLD


who said that? I said Alves walks about 10 lbs heavier than kos who cuts pretty big himself .


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

SlammedSL1 said:


> lol wut?
> 
> I am really trying to give some of you guys the benefit of the doubt here, I'm assuming you haven't been watching MMA as much as some guys here. Just because Alves WALKS AROUND at 190, doesn't make him stronger than GSP. Functional strength is something you work for, and not just given to you because you look jacked. Don't miscontrue this as nuthugging on GSP because I know full well Alves will be one of GSP's biggest tests to date, but that doesn't change the fact that he will walk through Alves like he has everyone else lately.


i am really trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here, it's clear you haven't been watching MMA as much as ...well me.

Alves walks around at over 200lbs+. And I love when fans say stuff like "he'll walk through".....no...no he will not. Alves actually has skills in areas of mma that are better than GSP...unlike Fitch or maybe even Kos. Alves has also proven himself alot more against top competition compared to Fitch.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

As a self professed gsp nuthugger I think that Alves stands a great chance vs gsp.

The problem is that GSP hasnt faced alot of pure strikers in a while.

GSP clearly had the upper hand in the striking department against his competition in the past... 

... but Alves is a different beast, he wont want to take GSP down (like Hughes/Kos/Sherk/Fitch) ... Alves will want to stand and trade.

Can GSP take Alves down? yes.

But it wouldnt be easy and it will put GSP at risk of getting caught.

Its not like he just has to pass the sprawl like with his past competition, its the knees he might eat on the way in.

I was actually hoping Alves wouldnt make weight... just cause I think he stands to be really tough competition for GSP.


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## r00kie (Jul 8, 2008)

I went with GSP.. 

Alves is really a beast, but I think that GSP will have a little edge on the reach on standup and superior ground game.

Plus carrying that much muscles.. I'd say that GSP cardio will be too much for Alves.


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## Grotty (Jul 21, 2006)

SlammedSL1 said:


> lol wut?
> 
> I am really trying to give some of you guys the benefit of the doubt here, I'm assuming you haven't been watching MMA as much as some guys here. Just because Alves WALKS AROUND at 190, doesn't make him stronger than GSP. Functional strength is something you work for, and not just given to you because you look jacked. Don't miscontrue this as nuthugging on GSP because I know full well Alves will be one of GSP's biggest tests to date, but that doesn't change the fact that he will walk through Alves like he has everyone else lately.


No doubt you are an expert but i stil think Alvez is stronger than GSP, Alvez could easily make MW right now, GSP couldnt really stun Koscheck in their fight yet Alvez did repeatedly so i would say i stick to my earlier statement.
Oh i have wached a little MMA , K1 etc on a superb electrical device which displays wonderful moving images with sound , we even have a deeeeeeeveeeeeeeeeeedeee for watching Discs on or even on the computer on whats called the world wide spiderweb.:sarcastic12:


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## SlammedSL1 (Jul 22, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> i am really trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here, it's clear you haven't been watching MMA as much as ...well me.
> 
> Alves walks around at over 200lbs+. And I love when fans say stuff like "he'll walk through".....no...no he will not. Alves actually has skills in areas of mma that are better than GSP...unlike Fitch or maybe even Kos. Alves has also proven himself alot more against top competition compared to Fitch.


I'm not going to list off everyone's opinion who I respect, but I bet you do know a bit more than me. What you don't know about is that just because someone WEIGHS alot, doesn't make them STRONGER. I can bully alot of people who are 10-20 pounds heavier than me, because I lift heavy weight, and I'm athletic. So, the person I quoted said that Alves is stronger than GSP. I don't believe that to be the case at all.

I think Alves will put on a great show with GSP, but I don't think he's anywhere near the level GSP is. I'm changing my sig to reflect this opinion, I stand by it, and if/when I'm right, it will be sweet haha If not, I'll gladly give Alves the respect he deserves (which I think I already do, Alves is going to be GSP's toughest fight, I already said that!!!)


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## SlammedSL1 (Jul 22, 2006)

Grotty said:


> No doubt you are an expert but i stil think Alvez is stronger than GSP, Alvez could easily make MW right now, GSP couldnt really stun Koscheck in their fight yet Alvez did repeatedly so i would say i stick to my earlier statement.
> Oh i have wached a little MMA , K1 etc on a superb electrical device which displays wonderful moving images with sound , we even have a deeeeeeeveeeeeeeeeeedeee for watching Discs on or even on the computer on whats called the world wide spiderweb.:sarcastic12:


I always have an excuse for every fighter, so believe me when I say any fighter coming off a devasting KO never looks the same. IE : GSP wasn't as dominant against Kos, maybe a bit gunshy etc.. 

Once again, BEING HEAVIER DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE STRONGER.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

Although Alves might throw serious bombs, I would hope that GSP could stay on the outside and utilize his longer reach.

Alves' reach is 70" ... while GSP is 76" (sometimes its been stated at 74" at its shortest and 78" at its longest).

So Alves would have to get past the long reach and close the distance... which would open himself to getting taken down... othwerwise, GSP can use lateral movement to keep his distance.

Alves squares up and moves forward straight... so that he can land his jab + leg kick combo.

Still close though.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

attention said:


> Although Alves might throw serious bombs, I would hope that GSP could stay on the outside and utilize his longer reach.
> 
> Alves' reach is 70" ... while GSP is 76" (sometimes its been stated at 74" at its shortest and 78" at its longest).
> 
> ...


staying on the outside and jabing is what Alves would hope GSP tries to do. Jabs open you up for leg kicks.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

69nites said:


> staying on the outside and jabing is what Alves would hope GSP tries to do. Jabs open you up for leg kicks.


what he said


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

69nites said:


> staying on the outside and jabing is what Alves would hope GSP tries to do. Jabs open you up for leg kicks.


For both... If I recall correctly, I think GSP serves up leg kicks too... kicks to the mid section... all from the outside... could be wrong, but I think GSP's got the reach in the leg catagory too


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

attention said:


> For both... If I recall correctly, I think GSP serves up leg kicks too... kicks to the mid section... all from the outside... could be wrong, but I think GSP's got the reach in the leg catagory too


the difference is alves doesn't jab constantly to find range/score points . + GSP doesn't check legs kicks and keeps his weight on his front foot a lot whereas Alves has a Muay Thai stance with most of his weight on the back leg keeping the front one mobile to check.

GSP throws a lot of switch kicks which throws a lot of guys off. I'm confident Alves will use those as an opportunity for destruction.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

69nites said:


> the difference is alves doesn't jab constantly to find range/score points . + GSP doesn't check legs kicks and keeps his weight on his front foot a lot whereas Alves has a Muay Thai stance with most of his weight on the back leg keeping the front one mobile to check.
> 
> GSP throws a lot of switch kicks which throws a lot of guys off. I'm confident Alves will use those as an opportunity for destruction.


I actually think the opposite... 

GSP would just keep up lateral movement, forcing Alves to circle to chase him down to try to land a power shot.

Alves wouldnt shoot, so GSP doesnt have to worry about the sprawl, so he could throw more from the outside without worry.

As Alves pushes forward, GSP just needs to time it right to bring him to the mat... then its all GSP.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

attention said:


> I actually think the opposite...
> 
> GSP would just keep up lateral movement, forcing Alves to circle to chase him down to try to land a power shot.
> 
> ...


alves doesn't chase looking for a power shot.

He throws leg kicks at range to force his opponents to get close then throws devastating knees. I think the battle would be epic and the best fight at WW in years.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

69nites said:


> alves doesn't chase looking for a power shot.
> 
> He throws leg kicks at range to force his opponents to get close then throws devastating knees.


Sorta gotta be square in front of him to do that.
Which is what Kos kept doing.
Hughes was too busy trying to setup a shot, so he too was squaring up with him.

GSP is the champ, he can sit back and dance for 5 rounds for all he cares... Alves has to come to him.


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## Grotty (Jul 21, 2006)

SlammedSL1 said:


> I always have an excuse for every fighter, so believe me when I say any fighter coming off a devasting KO never looks the same. IE : GSP wasn't as dominant against Kos, maybe a bit gunshy etc..
> 
> Once again, BEING HEAVIER DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE STRONGER.


its not about weight its aboutmuscle mass and Alvez has more its simple as that, im not saying he would beat GSP im saying Alvez as the upper hand with upper body strength, can he translate this power into strikes ..? well i bet he learns to use it all eventually,


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

attention said:


> Sorta gotta be square in front of him to do that.
> Which is what Kos kept doing.
> Hughes was too busy trying to setup a shot, so he too was squaring up with him.
> 
> GSP is the champ, he can sit back and dance for 5 rounds for all he cares... Alves has to come to him.


it's possible but I don't see it as likely. Not really GSP's style.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

69nites said:


> staying on the outside and jabing is what Alves would hope GSP tries to do. Jabs open you up for leg kicks.





Aaronyman said:


> what he said


Leg kicks open you up for takedowns and 76" reach staight punches.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Flak said:


> Leg kicks open you up for takedowns and 76" reach staight punches.


have you seen Alves throw a leg kick? You swing your upper body back and your leg forward. His head is farther away throwing the leg kick than standing upright.

it does open him up for take downs but hasn't caused much of an issue yet. he's pretty good at scrambling to the cage.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Never seen a leg kick in my life. Why not just call it a kick? Isn't the leg part implied by definition?


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Flak said:


> Never seen a leg kick in my life. Why not just call it a kick? Isn't the leg part implied by definition?


funny you actually posted a poorly executed body kick as your example.

and in case you couldn't tell irvin was out of range until Silva caught the BODY kick.

leaning down to grab a leg kick is a no no in most martial arts because it opens your face to knee strikes .


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

My point was never the distance, its the fact that you're commited and standing on one leg that leaves you vunerable. Cmon man, everyone on this forum has seen a punch come over the top of a leg kick countless times. I won't even get into it with you about those hard digging leg kicks that have you coming forward after the impact as opposed to the weak fade-away leg kicks we often see.

Alves has great leg kicks for sure. But to say it doesn't leave him more open to a straight punch is just silly. It's like saying the sky isn't blue.


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## All_In (Aug 23, 2007)

69nites said:


> it does open him up for take downs but hasn't caused much of an issue yet. he's pretty good at scrambling to the cage.


Arguably the best wrestler in mma would be able to control Alves on the ground.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Flak said:


> My point was never the distance, its the fact that you're commited and standing on one leg that leaves you vunerable. Cmon man, everyone on this forum has seen a punch come over the top of a leg kick countless times. I won't even get into it with you about those hard digging leg kicks that have you coming forward after the impact as opposed to the weak fade-away leg kicks we often see.
> 
> Alves has great leg kicks for sure. But to say it doesn't leave him more open to a straight punch is just silly. It's like saying the sky isn't blue.


that's because most people load their leg kicks. this gives you the chance to be faster on the draw.

Alves litterally has perfect form throwing the kicks from his hip. Very fast and nearly impossible to spot.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

You're right, GSP is way too slow. Alves will chop him down without consequence.

I never do this, but....sig bet?


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Flak said:


> You're right, GSP is way too slow. Alves will chop him down without consequence.
> 
> I never do this, but....sig bet?


I would never sig bet on something I consider to be a coin flip with a slight advantage to GSP.

it's your gameplan I have issue with.

GSP will push the pace for 5 rounds hoping Thiago's untested cardio won't last. That's most likely the best way to beat thiago.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

I just think he will take him down and it will look like either GSP vs Hughes II, or GSP vs Fitch.

But hey, no question that Alves is a very dangerous opponent. Probably the most dangerous yet considering he's one of the few guys GSP has fought that does something better than him.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

69nites said:


> I would never sig bet on something I consider to be a coin flip with a slight advantage to GSP.
> 
> it's your gameplan I have issue with.
> 
> GSP will push the pace for 5 rounds hoping Thiago's untested cardio won't last. That's most likely the best way to beat thiago.


I would think putting Alves on his back would do it.

but I also think that Alves can catch GSP too

...too close for me to call thats for sure.


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## All_In (Aug 23, 2007)

attention said:


> I would think putting Alves on his back would do it.
> 
> but I also think that Alves can catch GSP too
> 
> ...too close for me to call thats for sure.


I agree with you here for sure. I just think the probability of the former is much greater than the latter.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

certainly. even if he doesn't get Alves down defending takedowns eats a lot of cardio and Alves has not been tested for 5 rounds nor does he look great and ready for 2 more after his decision victories.


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## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

gsp for sure


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

how is thiago's cardio untested? he's went 3 rounds a few times and looked great and explosive all the way through.....

gsp was pretty gassed after 1 round w/ fitch frankly


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Aaronyman said:


> how is thiago's cardio untested? he's went 3 rounds a few times and looked great and explosive all the way through.....
> 
> gsp was pretty gassed after 1 round w/ fitch frankly


Thiago doesn't look fresh after 3 and has never done 5. Thus he's not tested for 5 rounds.

I am THE thiago alves nughugger around here btw in case you didn't notice .


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Mark my POST.............GSP will schol this guy in every aspect of his game.....he will outwrestle him, out strike him, etc........


I think Alves is a great talent.....but only every now and again does walking talent like GSP come along, the dude love his sport trains with everyone he can and shows the same respect for his art as Anderson Silva......... of course imho....


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

I'd take GSP any day of the week. I am not discrediting Alves here but I think be is the better athlete. I'd like to see how Alves handles the later rounds. 

In Alves' fight with Koscheck I don't know what was wrong with Kos, but I could have counted his take down attempts on one hand. Obviously had a respect for Alves' stand-up, but I do think he could have tried harder to get it to the ground. 

But GSP is not Koscheck. GSP's wrestling has proven to be much much better. And I believe GSP's striking ability is much better than Koscheck's. I'd say Alves' could be on par with GSP striking wise, Alves could be a bit stronger than him though. But I think GSP is faster. And I personally couldn't think of why someone would suspect GSP's chin, unless the back of his head counts 

Oh, not to mention GSP has the Greg Jackson factor on his side.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

joey__stalin said:


> I'd take GSP any day of the week. I am not discrediting Alves here but I think be is the better athlete. I'd like to see how Alves handles the later rounds.
> 
> In Alves' fight with Koscheck I don't know what was wrong with Kos, but I could have counted his take down attempts on one hand. Obviously had a respect for Alves' stand-up, but I do think he could have tried harder to get it to the ground.
> 
> But GSP is not Koscheck. GSP's wrestling has proven to be much much better. And I believe GSP's striking ability is much better than Koscheck's. I'd say Alves' could be on par with GSP striking wise, Alves could be a bit stronger than him though. But I think GSP is faster. And I personally couldn't think of why someone would suspect GSP's chin, unless the back of his head counts


he was scared of eating knees going in for a shot. Every time Alves really opened himself up for a takedown Koscheck tried. He was just playing it safe.

there's no doubt GSP has a strong chin but anyone can be knocked out. Especially TKO'd.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

joey__stalin said:


> I'd take GSP any day of the week. I am not discrediting Alves here but I think be is the better athlete. I'd like to see how Alves handles the later rounds.
> 
> In Alves' fight with Koscheck I don't know what was wrong with Kos, but I could have counted his take down attempts on one hand. Obviously had a respect for Alves' stand-up, but I do think he could have tried harder to get it to the ground.
> 
> ...


yeh but alves has a better camp overall...he's got bjj guys left and right, and apparently he rolls w/ garcia all the time


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> yeh but alves has a better camp overall...he's got bjj guys left and right, and apparently he rolls w/ garcia all the time


You say that as if GSP is a slouch when it comes to brazilian jiu jitsu.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

joey__stalin said:


> You say that as if GSP is a slouch when it comes to brazilian jiu jitsu.


he's not a slouch at all. Guy's good.

but Alves is coming from one of the best BJJ camps in the world.


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## Brydon (Jan 13, 2007)

Thiago definitly poses the most problems for GSP at 170, a lot more than BJ Penn, a lot more than Diego Sanchez, a lot more than anybody.

I think it's a very dangerous fight for GSP, Thiago is an extremely powerful, extremely aggressive, extremly effective striker. GSP's trademark double leg takedown early in the first round is extremly risky as he could easily eat a huge knee from Alves. Even if he manages to avoid the knee can he take Alves down? Kos did'nt even come close to it, however Kos's wrestling is quite one dimensional, he almost always goes for the single leg to double leg transition. Alves clearly prepared well to defend this as he will work to defend GSP's double leg attempts. However the sheer speed, power and timing of GSP's double leg shots lead me to believe he can take Alves down if......

GSP will have to really pose a threat to Alves striking, let him settle in to his striking game, counter punch and then get out of the exchanges, Alves will turn up the aggression as he gets more and more frustrated and when the moments right GSP will shoot for the double and put Alves on his back. I don't expect GSP to do much damage to Alves but he can certainly do enough to win the round.

If GSP can't take Alves down he will have to adopt a very different strategy. Alves is very comfortable coming forward aggresivly however he is susceptable to a good jab (see the karo fight). GSP needs to come at Thiago, not let him set the pace and be the aggressor, throw loads of jabs and look for a straight right hand, thats GSP's most powerful punch and his best shot at hurting thiago standing. From there he should either go for the takedown once thiago's hurt or look to finish with a KO/TKO standing.

I believe GSP has the tools to win this fight but Thiago could easily catch him on the chin, wobble him and TKO him in vicious style.

I'm going for GSP by UD.


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

yep imho


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## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

I think this is a great match-up. Something my friend and I talked about a little bit was that we believe GSP has the striking Koscheck lacked to thoroughly setup his take-downs. I think that's what makes GSP such a dangerous opponent, he demands you take his striking seriously, and once you have he can easily take you down and either GnP you or submit you. I think the fact that Thiago clearly avoids the ground makes him a limited fighter, and I believe GSP is more dynamic and ultimately as the ability to win soundly.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> yeh but alves has a better camp overall...he's got bjj guys left and right, and apparently he rolls w/ garcia all the time


 
he rolls over here at American Top Team in cocnut creek...........I would have to say thats the area that he has the advantage but.......GSP was trainning his jitz down in Brazil the dude seems to always be tryin to better his game.....we'll see I guess:thumb02:


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Forget about all these technical, BJJ, wrestling skills analysis etc. The only reason why GSP is so dominant @ 170 is the NIPPLE TWEAK. Look at what happened to Fitch, Chuck and Vera recently. This is fact, end of story. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiV834_MbF0


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Xerxes said:


> Forget about all these technical, BJJ, wrestling skills analysis etc. The only reason why GSP is so dominant @ 170 is the NIPPLE TWEAK. Look at what happened to Fitch, Chuck and Vera recently. This is fact, end of story.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiV834_MbF0


 
Xerxes for president.....how could we all forget the nipple twist........repped:thumb02:


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Xerxes said:


> Forget about all these technical, BJJ, wrestling skills analysis etc. The only reason why GSP is so dominant @ 170 is the NIPPLE TWEAK. Look at what happened to Fitch, Chuck and Vera recently. This is fact, end of story.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiV834_MbF0


Alves is for sure going to have to get on that.


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