# Why Velasquez won't beat Brock.



## MMARichie892 (Oct 17, 2010)

Brock has took a round of being beaten up by Carwin, a Much heavier hitter than Velasquez, he came out in round 2, took him down and tapped him out.
Frank Mir - Took down, beaten up.

Brock's takedowns are too strong, velasquez isn't strong enough to stop them. Brock won't stand with velasquez or that would be stupid, he tried to take carwin down but carwin stopped it , and carwin is a whole lot stronger than Cain.
Brock will take Velasquez down and beat him up, maybe Submission or maybe TKO, either way velasquez won't win.

What you think?


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## Coosh (Sep 25, 2009)

I agree with the outcome you have presented but I also think your analysis is uneducated to a certain extent. Cain is quick and is used to wrestling big guys and Brock is not going to be successful if he employs the same strategy that he did with Carwin with telegraphed shots from a great distance.

Brock needs to smother Cain on the feet in the clinch, bully him, and then take him down against the cage.


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## neoseeker (Jun 16, 2007)

I also think Bock need to show up a little lighter for this fight in order to keep up with Cain's speed and cardio.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Writing off Velasquez because Brock is bigger is just wrong. Cain can go at his steady (fast) pace for 5 rounds straight. His wrestling will help him defend many takedowns if/when they come, though he'll probably not be able to stuff them all...

Saying he can survive against Cain because Carwin was a much heavier hitter is also wrong, because Carwin brought it for 1 round, that's it - Cain will bring it for as many rounds as it takes...

That being said, *I still see Brock taking this* - I'm just not as sure as you because you're pretty basic in your analasys of this fight, there's just so much more to it mate  ie. Cain's cardio and wrestling (which will be used to keep the fight standing), plus Brock is much leaner than we've seen him before, so he will be bigger, but not by as much as people think


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Cain's wrestling credentials are great but when Brock has 50lbs on Cain come fight night it may make all the difference.


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## Guymay (Jul 6, 2009)

I think Brock will have hard time taking cain down . 
Cain will use his speed and boxing to keep brock away and pick him apart at the final rounds . Even if Cain gets taken down he will find a way up - Daniel Cormier stated that it's very hard to keep cain down .


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## MMARichie892 (Oct 17, 2010)

Coosh said:


> I agree with the outcome you have presented but I also think your analysis is uneducated to a certain extent. Cain is quick and is used to wrestling big guys and Brock is not going to be successful if he employs the same strategy that he did with Carwin with telegraphed shots from a great distance.
> 
> Brock needs to smother Cain on the feet in the clinch, bully him, and then take him down against the cage.


It was a rushed bit of writing haha! I agree with everything you say to be completely honest, smothering him up against the cage and wearing him down. 


neoseeker said:


> I also think Bock need to show up a little lighter for this fight in order to keep up with Cain's speed and cardio.


Brock's cardio is underrated in my opinion!


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## Coosh (Sep 25, 2009)

Guymay said:


> I think Brock will have hard time taking cain down .
> Cain will use his speed and boxing to keep brock away and pick him apart at the final rounds . Even if Cain gets taken down he will find a way up - Daniel Cormier stated that it's very hard to keep cain down .


Cain is only hard to take down when he's in his element and can rely on his speed and mobility in the center of the cage. 

Push Cain up against the cage, and all of a sudden he's just a much smaller HW and vulnerable to be taken down. I saw Kongo who has little to no wrestling take down Kongo in this scenario so I'm quite confident that Brock can.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, both guys have advantages to them. Because Cain is smaller he is faster in his boxing and his overall speed. Brock's larger mass gives him more punching power and strength, but he sacrifices enough speed to make a difference!:thumbsup:


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## RossCrispin (Aug 4, 2010)

Since last night, I refuse to say 'he won't beat him'. 
Velasquez has a very good chance of winning, and I'm not routing anyone.

I think they're both awesome, and this gonna be an epic fight.


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## Guymay (Jul 6, 2009)

Coosh said:


> Cain is only hard to take down when he's in his element and can rely on his speed and mobility in the center of the cage.
> 
> Push Cain up against the cage, and all of a sudden he's just a much smaller HW and vulnerable to be taken down. I saw Kongo who has little to no wrestling take down Kongo in this scenario so I'm quite confident that Brock can.


Getting cain against the cage won't be easy .
I have no doubt Brock will take Cain down using his sheer power . but i don't think he will be able to hold him there .


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## MMARichie892 (Oct 17, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Yeah, both guys have advantages to them. Because Cain is smaller he is faster in his boxing and his overall speed. Brock's larger mass gives him more punching power and strength, but he sacrifices enough speed to make a difference!:thumbsup:


Brock is ridiculously quick for his size bro !


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Cain was taken down by Kongo once, a guy with mediocre wrestling ability. I give Cain credit because he got right back up, but if Kongo can manage to take him down, it would be fair to say that Lesnar can too. Lesnar also has slightly better wrestling credentials than Velasquez. Cain should not want to turn this into a grappling match in my opinion. Lesnar should clinch and press him up against the cage and not create much space. That is if he struggles to take Velasquez down consistently or struggles to keep him on his back. He can't allow Velasquez to keep his distance and utilize his speed and footwork.

Either way, I expect this to be a competitive fight that we should find entertaining. They both have useful tools that should benefit them.


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## MMARichie892 (Oct 17, 2010)

Nick_V03 said:


> Cain was taken down by Kongo once, a guy with mediocre wrestling ability. I give Cain credit because he got right back up, but if Kongo can manage to take him down, it would be fair to say that Lesnar can too. Lesnar also has slightly better wrestling credentials than Velasquez. Cain should not want to turn this into a grappling match in my opinion. Lesnar should clinch and press him up against the cage and not create much space. That is if he struggles to take Velasquez down consistently or struggles to keep him on his back. He can't allow Velasquez to keep his distance and utilize his speed and footwork.
> 
> Either way, I expect this to be a competitive fight that we should find entertaining. They both have useful tools that should benefit them.


I had that in my head, you turned it to words !


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## Johnni G (Dec 2, 2009)

I agree


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

MMARichie892 said:


> Brock has took a round of being beaten up by Carwin, a Much heavier hitter than Velasquez, he came out in round 2, took him down and tapped him out.
> Frank Mir - Took down, beaten up.
> 
> Brock's takedowns are too strong, velasquez isn't strong enough to stop them. Brock won't stand with velasquez or that would be stupid, he tried to take carwin down but carwin stopped it , and carwin is a whole lot stronger than Cain.
> ...


If Brock's gameplan is simply take him down, it's going to be a long night. There aren't going to be any straight TDs like that. If Brock can't put some decent strikes together, he will lose.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Blah blah blah, your gonna here 9999 times about Cain's cardio. Lesnar is a huge beast he doesn't have to for 5 rounds because Cain won't be able to lay on his back and eat shots for 3 so there rest of the time limit is irrelevant.


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## AceCombat (Mar 6, 2007)

Dude, Cain's not going to gas out in rd 1 like Carwin did.

Cain's only issues coming into this fight are reach and weight.

He literally trumps lesnar in every other facet of mixed martial arts aside from maybe top control.

Cain's faster, much more fluid with his strikes, a better technical wrestler at the moment, and he practically quadruples Brock in Cardio.

Brock's going to have to take Cain down every round, without gassing, or catch him on the feet with a big shot in order to win this fight.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

After watching both countdowns gonna have to say I give the edge to Brock still. We've already seen what the worst possible positions are for Brock when he gets rocked and when he's on the ground (curls up, but is able to absorb power shots.) We've seen him go against a Black Belt BJJx2, go against another decorated wrestler in Randy Couture. His gorilla skull and size nullified everything. 

Cain offers a wide array of technical striking, but in order for him to get within landing range he places himself in danger of a bull rush takedown. Everything else is a formality. All that muscle, power, weight, momentum pressed up against him with his agility to move around and pound you at the same time makes me believe that Brock should take it. If both Cain and JDS loses it's definitely only Carwin who stands a chance. 

I think Cain will get bloodied up pretty badly, but he won't give up giving all the Latinos something to be proud of. I see a GSP vs Fitch type of match up. 

Brock remains as the undisputed champion...interestingly enough with such a nascent career in MMA...lolz!


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Brock has advantages other than strength and reach. On paper, he has slightly better wrestling credentials. The issue on who has better MMA wrestling is debatable. Cain has been out wrestling less than mediocre wrestlers. Just because he is able to dominate guys like Rothwell and Kongo on the ground, that doesn't mean his wrestling is unstoppable. Let's not forget that Kongo did manage to take him down for a few seconds, and it's not like he didn't struggle to take Rothwell down at all.

Regardless of that, Brock has better wrestling credentials while the better MMA wrestling is still a question mark. Given the fact that Brock is bigger and stronger, it's very reasonable to give Lesnar the grappling advantage.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Just out of interest anyone know how much Brock weighs on fight night? Is it around 280-290? Cos Cain is always around 240, i know size isn't everything but a 50lb + advantage is A LOT!!


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

edlavis88 said:


> Cain's wrestling credentials are great but when Brock has 50lbs on Cain come fight night it may make all the difference.


Totally agree. Great 285lb wrestler beats great 240lb great wrestler every time. If this fight is spent on the mat, Cain is in for a long night. He's no submission guy, so his only chance imo is if he catches Brock with a punch, which is also very possible, imo, because Cain will keep his eyes open when the punches start flying--can't say the same about Brock.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

AceCombat said:


> Dude, Cain's not going to gas out in rd 1 like Carwin did.
> 
> Cain's only issues coming into this fight are reach and weight.
> 
> ...


Why does he have to take Cain down every round? He didn't have to take Mir down every round, he didn't have to take Carwin down every round. You know there is nothing in the rules that says Lesnar has to fight for 5 rounds just because its a 5 round fight. He is allowed to do damage and finish the fight. I know that when Cain takes somebody down he doesn't like to hurt them but Lesnar will.


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

edlavis88 said:


> Just out of interest anyone know how much Brock weighs on fight night? Is it around 280-290? Cos Cain is always around 240, i know size isn't everything but a 50lb + advantage is A LOT!!


On the primetime it said Brock no longer cuts to make 265, from that we can assume he's at the very MOST 265 lbs come fight night. 

Brock takes this fight. Carwin was a much bigger test than Cain. Brock had just gotten off an illness and stepped up to the plate like a champ. After this fight, Brock is going to solidify himself as the champ for many years to come. We're going to see a Brock like no other; that's if he comes with the viking beard...if not I'm cheering for Cain.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

AceCombat said:


> Dude, Cain's not going to gas out in rd 1 like Carwin did.
> 
> Cain's only issues coming into this fight are reach and weight.
> 
> ...


This whole post is just hilarious. Brock wont have to take Cain down EACH round like you said, he just needs to take him down 1-2 times, which by then, he will win.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

ptw said:


> On the primetime it said Brock no longer cuts to make 265, from that we can assume he's at the very MOST 265 lbs come fight night.
> 
> Brock takes this fight. Carwin was a much bigger test than Cain. Brock had just gotten off an illness and stepped up to the plate like a champ. After this fight, Brock is going to solidify himself as the champ for many years to come. We're going to see a Brock like no other; that's if he comes with the viking beard...if not I'm cheering for Cain.


Actually they said he didn't for the Carwin fight but they also said Brock has been putting back on the 20lbs of muscle he lost when he was sick and Tucsherer referred to Brock as being 280.


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Actually they said he didn't for the Carwin fight but they also said Brock has been putting back on the 20lbs of muscle he lost when he was sick and Tucsherer referred to Brock as being 280.


Oh, thanks for correcting me and clearing it up.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

He's definitely a lot leaner. It's gonna be a good fight!


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

I think Cain CAN win this fight if he plays his cards right and fights really smart. If he can avoid getting taken down I think he can outwork Lesnar on the feet, turn it into a boxing match and win a decision. 

Obviously a lot easier said than done against a guy like Lesnar. 

One thing we don't know about Cain is how composed he will stay if/when he gets put on his back and starts eating shots from Brock. The only time we ever really saw Cain in trouble was when Kongo connected with a few good shots but he bounced right back. Never have we seen Cain in trouble on the ground. 

Now, Lesnar on the other hand has proven that he can overcome adversity and turn the fight around. He was getting the everlasting dog shit beat out of him by Carwin. Shane dropped him and had him up against the cage and threw everything he had at Lesnar but Brock wouldn't go down. 

This is why it is SO crucial for Cain to avoid the takedowns and Ground n Pound. If Velasquez can keep it on the feet I think he can outwork Lesnar, go the distance and win a decision.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

MMARichie892 said:


> Brock is ridiculously quick for his size bro !


I think he was talking about hand speed, Brock's shot is fast, yes but it is also telegraphed. He can get away with this against bad wrestlers like Herring and Mir but he had more difficulty taking down Randy and Carwin. Cain is probably a better wrestler than both of them and is a little bit heavier than Randy. 

Cain also has a very low centre of gravity, making it harder to take him down. I believe that with these facts, and his wrestling credentials that he will be able to nullify Lesnar's takedowns and keep distance outworking Lesnar on the feet.

It wouldn't be a bad idea for Cain to fight like Frankie Edgar during this fight and begin to try to take Brock down in later rounds as Brock begins to tire (if he does tire).

Either way this will be a great fight but i am definitely pulling for Velasquez.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Cain might hurt lesnar but I don't see him winnig. I would be shock if cain won this fight. If Cain wins I can 110% say fedor is the greatest fighter in the world. Lesnar has to much size for cain to handle.


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## Bruce Banner (Oct 23, 2008)

First, when did we ever see Brock gas? I mean, if Brock has 5 rounds of gas in the tank and Cain has 10 rounds of gas, then BFD. 

Second, all this talk about Cain being a better wrestler is just silly. In NCAA, Brock took 1st and 2nd, while Cain took 4th and 5th. I'd also wager that Brock faced a few guys just like Cain while Cain has probably never fought anyone even nearly like Brock. I don't know where all this Cain wrestling garbage is coming from - he's just not that special.

People want Brock to lose so badly that they will convince themselves of how great the opponent is, regardless of the opponent. Couture was going to school him. Then Carwin was going to blast him back to the WWE. Now, I'm not even sure what people think Velazquez will do but everyone seems to be nuthugging this dude. Your heart might say Cain but your brain HAS to say Brock - or else you're retarded.

I don't really think knocking out Big Nog is quite the same feat as it used to be, either. How well did Mir's "improved technical striking" serve him against Brock?


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Bruce Banner said:


> I don't really think knocking out Big Nog is quite the same feat as it used to be, either. How well did Mir's "improved technical striking" serve him against Brock?


I don't doubt Mir would be left in the fetal position within 3 minutes with Cain.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Bruce Banner said:


> First, when did we ever see Brock gas?


I realize Cain has cardio for days, but I think people are underestimating Brock's gastank. Lesnar isn't the type to allow himself to be limited in any area I guarantee cardio is something he works on consistently. 

I've never seen him tired but people seem to think he was gassed against Herring not knowing he was very new to MMA and didn't know what the hell to do on top. 

The fight will be epic with each fighter having strengths and weaknesses, but I don't see Brock's cardio being much of an issue.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

rygu said:


> I realize Cain has cardio for days, but I think people are underestimating Brock's gastank. Lesnar isn't the type to allow himself to be limited in any area I guarantee cardio is something he works on consistently.
> 
> I've never seen him tired but people seem to think he was gassed against Herring not knowing he was very new to MMA and didn't know what the hell to do on top.
> 
> The fight will be epic with each fighter having strengths and weaknesses, but I don't see Brock's cardio being much of an issue.



It's not that Brock doesn't have great cardio, it's whether he can maintain the same pace that Cain can over 5 rounds.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

MMARichie892 said:


> Brock has took a round of being beaten up by Carwin, a Much heavier hitter than Velasquez, he came out in round 2, took him down and tapped him out.
> Frank Mir - Took down, beaten up.
> 
> Brock's takedowns are too strong, velasquez isn't strong enough to stop them. Brock won't stand with velasquez or that would be stupid, he tried to take carwin down but carwin stopped it , and carwin is a whole lot stronger than Cain.
> ...


Both men don't have half the wrestling of Cain. Also, Carwin stuffed the shit out of Brocks takedowns in round one, it was only after Carwin gassed himself our futilely trying to punch Brocks face through the floor. 

Cain will not gas. He is a Div I national champion in wrestling (Carwin was Div II, there is a HUGE difference) and, as I said, Carwin stuffed Brock with relative ease early.

As far as Mir? He openly admits his wrestling is utter shite. He's one of my favorite fighters, but it's true. His wrestling is horrid. 

Cain will be fast and more explosive than both men. He has better striking than both men. While he may n ot have "Carwin Power," he definitely has some serious power. I don't think he NEEDS Carwin sized power to KTFO Brock either. Had Carwin not jumped the gun and pounded Brocks face instead of hitting his arms for 2 minutes, he would've won that fight. Cain won't make a mistake like that. Carwin got his title shot because of his brutal KO power, not because of his skill. Cain is getting his shot because he's one of the most skilled heavy weights in the world AND he has the power to back it up. Cain WILL win this fight. I'm thinking by TKO in the late second or early third.

EDIT:

Marcthegame: His fight with Randy he was noticeably slower in the second round. His fight with Carwin he wasn't as explosive in the second either. He may not totally gas, but he WILL slow down.



Bruce Banner said:


> First, when did we ever see Brock gas? I mean, if Brock has 5 rounds of gas in the tank and Cain has 10 rounds of gas, then BFD.


Thing is, Brock doesn't. He's shown he slows in the second, let alone the third or championship rounds. As I said, he may not totally gas, but he slows down and losses quite a bit of his explosiveness and speed rather quick. 



> Second, all this talk about Cain being a better wrestler is just silly. In NCAA, Brock took 1st and 2nd, while Cain took 4th and 5th. I'd also wager that Brock faced a few guys just like Cain while Cain has probably never fought anyone even nearly like Brock. I don't know where all this Cain wrestling garbage is coming from - he's just not that special.


Brock has also had his takedown stuffed by a division II wrestler. This is NOT a wrestling match either. Brock will get punched in the mouth and THEN taken down. Or he will get sprawled on and THEN punched in the mouth. He showed with Carwin that he doesn't deal with that the best. Lesnar may have been the better wrestler in college, but he's far, far removed from those years of his wrestling. His last college championship was *ten years ago*. Since then he's been a professional wrestler, a football player and now a MMArtist. There's a lot of time there for his wrestling skills to degrade, hence why he was outwrestled by Carwin. Cain, on the other hand, competed in amateur college wrestling in 2006. Thats 4 years.And he was doing MMA BEFORE THAT. So Cain's skills in wrestling have probably gone next to nowhere, if not UP being that he's training with guys like Fitch and Kos. So yes, on the college level, Lesnar WAS better. That surely does not mean he is now especially when you take it in the context of his life.



> People want Brock to lose so badly that they will convince themselves of how great the opponent is, regardless of the opponent. Couture was going to school him. Then Carwin was going to blast him back to the WWE. Now, I'm not even sure what people think Velazquez will do but everyone seems to be nuthugging this dude. Your heart might say Cain but your brain HAS to say Brock - or else you're retarded.


Couture was never going to school him. He's half his size and 15 years his elder. Carwin, on the other hand, damn near DID blast him back to the WWE. If you watched that first round at all you'd know that Carwin handed him his ass. Yes, Carwin got beat because he got over excited and punched brock in the arms until he gassed and then got subbed. But should Carwin get a rematch, that fight will most likely go the other way.



> I don't really think knocking out Big Nog is quite the same feat as it used to be, either. How well did Mir's "improved technical striking" serve him against Brock?


It didn't because, as I said, Mir has shit wrestling. He DID rock Brock with that knee though. Also, Mir's striking is nowhere near as fast or as crisp as Cain's. Should Cain and Mir ever fight, Cain would absolutely demolish him... this is coming from a huge Mir fan.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

I think Cain can and will win this. He's a D1 wrestler like Lesnar but with superior striking, excellent cardio and a relentless pace. He literally attacks from every angle.

I'm going with Velasquez to take the strap.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> Both men don't have half the wrestling of Cain. Also, Carwin stuffed the shit out of Brocks takedowns in round one, it was only after Carwin gassed himself our futilely trying to punch Brocks face through the floor.
> 
> Cain will not gas. He is a Div I national champion in wrestling (Carwin was Div II, there is a HUGE difference) and, as I said, Carwin stuffed Brock with relative ease early.
> 
> ...


Carwin is a truck so is lesnar. Cain is a suv he might be better all around than lesnar. But Lesnar size and competitive nature will win him this fight. A cain win however will put a hole into Dana's pride cause Cain as the ufc champ will lose to fedor easily.


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## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

Only a mentally ill person would give Cain even half a chance!


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

marcthegame said:


> Carwin is a truck so is lesnar. Cain is a suv he might be better all around than lesnar. But Lesnar size and competitive nature will win him this fight. A cain win however will put a hole into Dana's pride cause Cain as the ufc champ will lose to fedor easily.


Cain is a better wrestler than both of them though. Like I pointed out up there, Lesnar is NOT that good of a wrestler. He has a powerful double and that's it. Cain has many, many more tools at his disposal and is also far less removed from his wrestling career than Lesnar. 

Also, saying "Lesnar is a truck and Cain is an SUV" is completely inaccurate. Cain is only outweighed by Lesnar by 27lbs. That's really not that much weight considering Lesnar is 6'3''. This fight will probably be proportionate to how much GSP outweighs most of his opponents on fight night. When you get to guys this size who are this strong, lbs mean less and less relatively.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

footodors said:


> Only a mentally ill person would give Cain even half a chance!


I saying lesnar but MMA is odd as hell anything can happen. I'm not saying its going to be a walk through the park for lesnar but I can't see him losing.


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> Both men don't have half the wrestling of Cain. Also, Carwin stuffed the shit out of Brocks takedowns in round one, it was only after Carwin gassed himself our futilely trying to punch Brocks face through the floor.



Yes but it was early and Carwin is just as big and strong as Lesner. Also it was not that many attempts, because for most of the round Lesner was on his back getting the crap beat out of him. I think Carwin has the best chance of beating Lesner, if/when he gets his rematch I think he can take it. Although Lesner is improving and Carwin may have lost his best chance to be champ.

I don't know if Cain can handle the size and strength of Lesner. I am interested to find out though.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

footodors said:


> Only a mentally ill person would give Cain even half a chance!


this will be going in my sig after cain wins.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

I don't think the strength is going to be in favor of Brock enough to outweigh Cain's technique though, is what I'm saying. The first, round, MAYBE 50/50 on takedowns between the two. But from the second on I don't see Lesnar being able to take Cain down at all. Like I said, he loses a lot of pep after the first round. Against Randy he looked damn near gassed and against Carwin he just kind of blankted take down'd him. He just kind draped himself on Shane and moved forward until Carwin fell down. I mean, he was getting the shit kicked out of him most of the previous round, but I think Cain is going to bring the fight to him and make him work hard the first round and he'll slow in the second. I think Lesnar is going to need every ounce of that strength to take Cain down, too, so once it starts going down a bit I don't see him getting this fight to the floor. Standing in this fight is a seriously lopsided advantage for Cain. He's faster, crisper, has all around better movement and angles AND he has the power to KO you to boot. Lesnar MAY have that power (the only person he's rocked is Randy), but we aren't sure yet. His hands are most definitely not as fast as Cain's, even when fresh, and his technique is below par.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> Cain is a better wrestler than both of them though. Like I pointed out up there, Lesnar is NOT that good of a wrestler. He has a powerful double and that's it. Cain has many, many more tools at his disposal and is also far less removed from his wrestling career than Lesnar.
> 
> Also, saying "Lesnar is a truck and Cain is an SUV" is completely inaccurate. Cain is only outweighed by Lesnar by 27lbs. That's really not that much weight considering Lesnar is 6'3''. This fight will probably be proportionate to how much GSP outweighs most of his opponents on fight night. When you get to guys this size who are this strong, lbs mean less and less relatively.


Who did GSP outweigh by 27lbs besides Penn? Fitch is much larger, Alves is bigger, Hardy was about the same size as GSP. The only guys that GSP fought were he had a big size advantage was Serra and Penn because both were bloated LW's.


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## Bruce Banner (Oct 23, 2008)

TraMaI said:


> Cain will not gas. He is a Div I national champion in wrestling (Carwin was Div II, there is a HUGE difference) and, as I said, Carwin stuffed Brock with relative ease early.


FALSE. You have proven your nuthuggerness. Cain never placed better than 4th in college, as I correctly stated in my post that you've completely failed to debunk.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Who did GSP outweigh by 27lbs besides Penn? Fitch is much larger, Alves is bigger, Hardy was about the same size as GSP. The only guys that GSP fought were he had a big size advantage was Serra and Penn because both were bloated LW's.


I said relatively. When you add another 100 lbs to the mix, that's a 64% increase in weight. SO GSP would only have to outweigh someone by 17 on fight night to have the same effect. which isn't that huge of a margin considering GSP said he comes in ~190 and probably pretty close to 200 on fight night.



Bruce Banner said:


> FALSE. You have proven your nuthuggerness. Cain never placed better than 4th in college, as I correctly stated in my post that you've completely failed to debunk.


The fact that I stated he's a champion does nothing to defer the point of my post. No, he wasn't a national champion, but Brock was also only champion ONCE in the NCAA.Cain was, however, a two time all-american at ASU, the same as Lesnar. He was also a national Champ in the NJCAA, just like Lesnar. I'm not inclined to think those 3 spots between Lesnar and Cain mean very much. It also doesn't do much to help defend the fact that Lesnar got stuffed by a Div II wrestler.


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## Bruce Banner (Oct 23, 2008)

TraMaI said:


> Lesnar MAY have that power (the only person he's rocked is Randy), but we aren't sure yet. His hands are most definitely not as fast as Cain's, even when fresh, and his technique is below par.


Maybe you were taking a piss during the first ten seconds of the Heath Herring fight. He broke his orbital socket, completely bowled him over and Herring hasn't fought in the intervening 2+ years. 

He rocked Mir, too, BTW.

You're pretty liberal telling people they don't know what they're talking about when you don't seem to really know what you're talking about. Maybe your bias comes from only having ever watched fights that Cain was in.


----------



## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Herring is a can. That fight proves nothing ot me. Yeah, he broke his orbital BUT HE DIDN'T KO HIM. I'm talking about KO power. He also DECISIONED Herring. I'm not saying he doesn't have "Punches in bunches" KO power, but people seem to think that just because of Brock's size he'll KO you in a single shot like Carwin, which is obviously not the case. He can rock people, yes, but also the only people who he has rocked are people who don't exactly have solid chins.

ALL of Mir's losses come by (T)KO. One of those being by a natural LHW.

Randy is a natural LHW and has 6 (T)KO Losses.

Herring is the only person who actually has a pretty decent chin among them and Lesnar didn't rock him all that hard. If you actually WATCH that, Herring flips back on purpose after he falls back to avoid the incoming bull rush that Lesnar is doing. And again, he decisioned Herring.

You're also pretty liberal about calling people nutthuggers when you seem to have Brock's nuts in a death grip.


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## kay_o_ken (Jan 26, 2009)

i keep changing my mind about this fight, sometimes i think cains gonna win and sometimes i think brock will, i like bother fighters though so im fine either way, all i know is im so facking excited for this card!!


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## Hail the Potato (Jul 29, 2010)

Toxic said:


> I know that when Cain takes somebody down he doesn't like to hurt them but Lesnar will.


I'm betting on Cain but I LOLed at this^


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

People are thinking too much into Brock being unable to take Carwin down in the 1st round. This was Brock Lesnar's first fight in a year, after a life threatening illness, he was not 100% going into that fight. He was definitely feeling the effects of cage rust, was still adjusting to his new nutrition and had only been back training for a few months. The Brock Lesnar we'll see against Cain Velasquez is going to be the real Brock Lesnar, and the best Brock Lesnar we've ever seen. I don't see Cain having the scary power Carwin possesses, so the chances of Cain getting Brock in huge trouble in the 1st are slim. I believe Cain needs this fight to go 5 rounds if he's going to win, if it ends with a finish, you can be sure that it'll be Brock Lesnar coming out victorious, probably via TKO, and there-in lies my prediction.


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## Thunder1 (Aug 16, 2008)

"after a life threatening illness"
That piece is so over played. I've dealt with the same "life threatening" illness for 10 years. 

Nevertheless, I think Brock will win. VIA take down, smother and control, and a million hammer fists. I think Cain has the potential to put up a good fight, however, the size and strength of Brock will win.


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## Thunder1 (Aug 16, 2008)

"Cain is probably a better wrestler than both of them and is a little bit heavier than Randy."

Lots of people say that, I don't see it. Cain doesn't have as good a wrestling pedigree. Brock Div 1 champ, Carwin Div 2 champ. Randy's wrestling resume is longer than all of the heavyweights. Cain was a Junior College National Champ. Cain finished 4th and 5th at the NCAA Div 1 Collegiate Championships. 
Go to the wrestling hall of fame for more details if you like.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Thunder1 said:


> "Cain is probably a better wrestler than both of them and is a little bit heavier than Randy."
> 
> Lots of people say that, I don't see it. Cain doesn't have as good a wrestling pedigree. Brock Div 1 champ, Carwin Div 2 champ. Randy's wrestling resume is longer than all of the heavyweights. Cain was a Junior College National Champ. Cain finished 4th and 5th at the NCAA Div 1 Collegiate Championships.
> Go to the wrestling hall of fame for more details if you like.


you also missed the part where he is 1-1 with cole konrad, who is a far better wrestler then brock and hasn't had a 8 year layoff from real wrestling, unlike brock.

seriously, the way people go on about brock is like he is fresh out of college or something.


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## Thunder1 (Aug 16, 2008)

guy incognito, your not going to take away Brock's WWE days from his pedigree are you? If he finds a metal chair cage side or desides to fly from the top of the cage the fights over.

Cole Konrad is very imposing. 6'6" 265lb. Lets get him in the UFC. I don't think he has the same athleticism and explosiveness as Brock, though.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Thunder1 said:


> guy incognito, your not going to take away Brock's WWE days from his pedigree are you? If he finds a metal chair cage side or desides to fly from the top of the cage the fights over.
> 
> Cole Konrad is very imposing. 6'6" 265lb. Lets get him in the UFC. I don't think he has the same athleticism and explosiveness as Brock, though.


brocks still a very good wrestler but the time away from it makes a difference.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

MMARichie892 said:


> I had that in my head, you turned it to words !


No, you didn't. You agree with every argument where Lesnar wins or Cain is attacked.



I think y'all underrate Cain's wrestling. I see him stuffing most TD attempts.


I hope Cain wins, he has the tools and the heart.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Danm2501 said:


> People are thinking too much into Brock being unable to take Carwin down in the 1st round. This was Brock Lesnar's first fight in a year, after a life threatening illness, he was not 100% going into that fight. He was definitely feeling the effects of cage rust, was still adjusting to his new nutrition and had only been back training for a few months. The Brock Lesnar we'll see against Cain Velasquez is going to be the real Brock Lesnar, and the best Brock Lesnar we've ever seen. I don't see Cain having the scary power Carwin possesses, so the chances of Cain getting Brock in huge trouble in the 1st are slim. I believe Cain needs this fight to go 5 rounds if he's going to win, if it ends with a finish, you can be sure that it'll be Brock Lesnar coming out victorious, probably via TKO, and there-in lies my prediction.


That might be true Danm.. but you do know that Cain is twice the Wrestler Carwin is, right?



Toxic said:


> Why does he have to take Cain down every round? He didn't have to take Mir down every round, he didn't have to take Carwin down every round. You know there is nothing in the rules that says Lesnar has to fight for 5 rounds just because its a 5 round fight. He is allowed to do damage and finish the fight. *I know that when Cain takes somebody down he doesn't like to hurt them but Lesnar will.*


But Cain is no Frank Mir and no Carwin either, Toxic. I don't see how Lesnar will be able to do much damage, even if he get's Cain to the floor. He won't be able to keep him down there for so long.


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## R1WARRIOR (Sep 21, 2010)

Brock only advantage is his size, but he just admit that he's down to a natural 265 pounds, and that he doesn't need to cut at all, it's good for the gas tank......but he's now just 20 pounds over Cain...

The only way Brock can win is by wrestling (avoiding the fight) and hugging Cain and get a decision.....Because he knows that he if try to fight Cain he has no chance and will end up crying for his mother like he had to do against Carwin.

Still it's a hard call, but i'm going for Cain.


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## Thunder1 (Aug 16, 2008)

"but you do know that Cain is twice the Wrestler Carwin is, right?"
Based on what?


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

TraMaI said:


> Herring is a can. That fight proves nothing ot me. Yeah, he broke his orbital BUT HE DIDN'T KO HIM. I'm talking about KO power. He also DECISIONED Herring. I'm not saying he doesn't have "Punches in bunches" KO power, but people seem to think that just because of Brock's size he'll KO you in a single shot like Carwin, which is obviously not the case. He can rock people, yes, but also the only people who he has rocked are people who don't exactly have solid chins.
> 
> ALL of Mir's losses come by (T)KO. One of those being by a natural LHW.
> 
> ...


Lesnar has amazing power... What he lacks is accuracy...

He hasn't caught anyone straight on the button, they are always glancing blows or more often straight to the face or skull and yet they still rock their opponents. If he lands a shot on the button it will be nighty night for Velasquez, I guarantee it.

Herring isn't a can either. He isn't a top fighter but he has a ton of knowledge and has fought the best there is in the world. Very few have dominated him like Lesnar did.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Thunder1 said:


> "but you do know that Cain is twice the Wrestler Carwin is, right?"
> Based on what?


Based on his Wrestling and MMA Wrestling resume!


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

BobbyCooper said:


> But Cain is no Frank Mir and no Carwin either, Toxic. I don't see how Lesnar will be able to do much damage, even if he get's Cain to the floor. He won't be able to keep him down there for so long.


Cain is some BJJ god now? I haven't seen anything of his bottom game to make me think that he will be able to get out from under Lesnar who has one of the best top games in the UFC. Very very few people could take a ground fighter the caliber of Mir and absolutely neutralize him on the ground with 1 arm and then beat the crap out of him like Lesnar did... 

Lesnar is as quick as Velasquez is in a scramble and much stronger, if he gets on top of Velasquez he is going to be there for most of the round.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

This in my opinion is a more realistic thread than the "why Cain will beat Brock Thread"....



I'm takin side bets on this fight all day if anyone wants to step, besides those who have....



Bobby Cooper
PheelgoodInc
Mckeever


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

I'll go with Lesnar reluctantly, but put it this way: if the same Lesnar that fought Carwin shows up against the same Cain that fought Nog, Cain will roll over him. I think Lesnar's illness was a huge drain on him. Just the layoff alone is a detriment, and the illness on top of it had to have taken him down an additional notch (perhaps 5 or 6). In fact, I wonder if he's completely over it. 

But my sense is, Lesnar has crawled back to health and will be the best version we've seen. Problem for him is, Cain is also ever evolving. When you look at the leaps he's making every fight, the best Lesnar ever may not be enough. 

Cannot wait for this fight.


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## Thunder1 (Aug 16, 2008)

"Based on his Wrestling and MMA Wrestling resume!"

He has a JUCO National Championship. Then finished 4th and 5th at the Div 1 National Championship. Carwin is Div 2 National Champion.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

420atalon said:


> Cain is some BJJ god now? I haven't seen anything of his bottom game to make me think that he will be able to get out from under Lesnar who has one of the best top games in the UFC. Very very few people could take a ground fighter the caliber of Mir and absolutely neutralize him on the ground with 1 arm and then beat the crap out of him like Lesnar did...
> 
> Lesnar is as quick as Velasquez is in a scramble and much stronger, if he gets on top of Velasquez he is going to be there for most of the round.


Frank Mir? Now take a serious look at Frank Mir. Frank Mir is one of the worst athlets in MMA. They guy moves like a slug and his BJJ is as overrated as Nick Diaz's. 

Cain is quick, flexible, explosive, young and strong! Frank Mir is none of those! 

Cain is a very legit Purple Belt in BJJ! But it won't be his BJJ wich will allow him to stand back up 420. It is going to be his athletism and Wrestling!

If Brock was unable to keep Randy and Carwin (Carwin with gas) down, he will struggle even harder with Cain



coldcall420 said:


> This in my opinion is a more realistic thread than the "why Cain will beat Brock Thread"....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't wait to finally win a bet against ya my friend 

It's time don't you think so? Noons and CroCop.. well^^ I take risks and give you even odds for them too ;D


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Thunder1 said:


> "Based on his Wrestling and MMA Wrestling resume!"
> 
> He has a JUCO National Championship. Then finished 4th and 5th at the Div 1 National Championship. Carwin is Div 2 National Champion.


It would be very interesting to see how Carwin would have done against Div. 1 wrestlers. My guess is, he wouldn't have placed as high as 4th or 5th in the national championship.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Thunder1 said:


> "Based on his Wrestling and MMA Wrestling resume!"
> 
> He has a JUCO National Championship. Then finished 4th and 5th at the Div 1 National Championship. Carwin is Div 2 National Champion.


Exactly, Divisional *2*

Plus Cain won a Blue Belt BJJ tournament too!


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## Thunder1 (Aug 16, 2008)

Div 2 CHAMPION. Cain was a JUCO Champion.
Not trying to say Cain can't wrestle, he's a very good wrestler. I often hear the Cain vs Carwin wrestling comments, and I think it's splitting hairs to say one is better over the other. We've yet to see Carwin display any wrestling in the UFC.

"Plus Cain won a Blue Belt BJJ tournament too!"
That doesn't impress me. 

Cain is an outstanding fighter and this will be a good, fun fight to watch. I think Brock will come out the victor.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

BobbyCooper said:


> Frank Mir? Now take a serious look at Frank Mir. Frank Mir is one of the worst athlets in MMA. They guy moves like a slug and his BJJ is as overrated as Nick Diaz's.
> 
> Cain is quick, flexible, explosive, young and strong! Frank Mir is none of those!
> 
> ...


Yeah, Mir is slow, overrated and yet he knocked out Nog in nearly as impressive fashion as Velasquez did(the fight that hyped Velasquez as having amazing stand up...). I agree that Mir used to be overrated but he still has skills and Lesnar bullied him, made him look like a 5 year old kid wrestling with his dad.

Cain will have to use more then just his athleticism to get up from under Lesnar. He gives up ~ 30 lbs and a lot of strength. He might be able to escape scrambles but if Lesnar gets on top of him in guard Cain is going to have a tough time getting out without some amazing sweeps. Cain is not a better wrestler then Lesnar or the guys he has trained with. Lesnar was a NCAA division 1 champion and runner up. Velasquez at best finished 4th. Cole Konrad is a better wrestler as well. Carwin was a Div II champ which is pretty much as good and he is stronger then Cain.

The only way that Velasquez wins this fight is by using his overrated stand up to beat Lesnar while avoiding takedowns or to just survive and then use his cardio to win the fight in late rounds. It is possible but I believe Lesnar's standup will surprise in this match.


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## Thunder1 (Aug 16, 2008)

Cain needs to stay outside, stuff any takedowns, and continue to blast Brock in the face with speed and all the power he has. If he ends up on his back, use his cardio and speed to get immediately to his feet. 

Brock needs to eat some punches and wrap him up. Bully him to the ground and smother him. Brock, close your eyes and rush him when he starts hitting you in the face. Don't turn your head and body away.

hehe, this is gonna be fun.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

420atalon said:


> Yeah, Mir is slow, overrated and yet he knocked out Nog in nearly as impressive fashion as Velasquez did(the fight that hyped Velasquez as having amazing stand up...). I agree that Mir used to be overrated* but he still has skills and Lesnar bullied him, made him look like a 5 year old kid wrestling with his dad.*
> 
> Cain will have to use more then just his athleticism to get up from under Lesnar. He gives up ~ 30 lbs and a lot of strength. He might be able to escape scrambles but if Lesnar gets on top of him in guard Cain is going to have a tough time getting out without some amazing sweeps. Cain is not a better wrestler then Lesnar or the guys he has trained with. Lesnar was a NCAA division 1 champion and runner up. Velasquez at best finished 4th. Cole Konrad is a better wrestler as well. Carwin was a Div II champ which is pretty much as good and he is stronger then Cain.
> 
> The only way that Velasquez wins this fight is by using his overrated stand up to beat Lesnar while avoiding takedowns or to just survive and then use his cardio to win the fight in late rounds. It is possible but I believe Lesnar's standup will surprise in this match.


And you don't know why that is?? It's the perfect matchup for a guy like Lesnar to face somebody as Frank Mir, who has zero Wrestling experience. Of course Lesnar looks amazing against those types. But even when he faces a Greco Roman Wrestler in Randy, who is about to turn 50 years old, he struggles hard.

It's all about matchups 420.. and Frank Mir was the best possible matchup in the entire HW devision for a guy like Brock, who just needed to adapt very little submission defense, to defend against Frank Mir's overrated BJJ!

Cain is a totally different story! The guy can Wrestler too. I say very confident, that Cain is the superior Wrestler right now, cause Brock's Wrestling credentials are from over a decade ago. Cain still Wrestled only a couple of years back and started immediately with MMA unlike Brock, who went into the Entertainment Buesniss. Cain has more then just an advanatge here in my eyes. 

Cain adapted his All-American Wrestling right into MMA 420.. not like Brock who was busy learning Finishing Moves in the WWE..


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> And you don't know why that is?? It's the perfect matchup for a guy like Lesnar to face somebody as Frank Mir, who has zero Wrestling experience. Of course Lesnar looks amazing against those types. But even when he faces a Greco Roman Wrestler in Randy, who is about to turn 50 years old, he struggles hard.
> 
> It's all about matchups 420.. and Frank Mir was the best possible matchup in the entire HW devision for a guy like Brock, who just needed to adapt very little submission defense, to defend against Frank Mir's overrated BJJ!
> 
> ...


Good points. Anyone who disses Cain's wrestling is making a huge mistake. This is going to be fairly even in the wrestling dept. The only thing I disagree with is that Lesnar struggled with Randy. I just didn't see it. He took Randy down several times and did well int he clinch which is Randy's specialty. Lesnar doesn't have any Greco-Roman experience that I know of. Lesnar landed good knees throughout the bout in the clinch, and barely took any damage the entire fight. And he did something few have done against Randy stopping him via strikes. I'd say it was a one-sided impressive win.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

BobbyCooper said:


> And you don't know why that is?? It's the perfect matchup for a guy like Lesnar to face somebody as Frank Mir, who has zero Wrestling experience. Of course Lesnar looks amazing against those types. But even when he faces a Greco Roman Wrestler in Randy, who is about to turn 50 years old, he struggles hard.


I didn't see Lesnar "struggle hard" against Randy...

I saw Lesnar outstrike Randy and outwrestle him. He was winning the fight in every regard. 

He showed Couture a lot of respect in that fight, probably too much. He just kind of let Randy lean against him and try and take him down. When Randy actually got close the one time Lesnar just threw him off like a fly... He also took him down at will a couple times. 

Lesnar was also still raw in that fight and learning how to use his wrestling effectively in MMA. He has without a doubt improved since then.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

IMHO, the Carwin fight revealed alot about how Brock reacts to getting clocked. The same goes for when Cain met up with Congo. Both of these guys ate some big shots... but it was Cain who was able to recover faster. 
Thats what it comes down to for me... both have good ground games, both have good striking... but I can see Brock being a little more reluctant to eat another big strike again... maybe make him a bit hesitant to step in to the pocket... possibly even a little reluctant to be the aggressor... which leaves Cain to 'get off first' which would be really bad for Brock... just my arm chair assessment


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

420atalon said:


> I didn't see Lesnar "struggle hard" against Randy...
> 
> I saw Lesnar outstrike Randy and outwrestle him. He was winning the fight in every regard.
> 
> ...


So you only quote this part, cause you agree with the other one 

You guys have fair points about the Randy fight. But the thing I was trying to say, is that Lesnar indeed got Randy down a couple of times. But the major thing is and thats what I was trying to tell you guys, is that Randy was able to stand back up!!!

And thats the important thing here. Cain has all those tools as well, to get back up underneath Brock and make him fight on his feet. The majority of time, Cain will stuff Lesnars takedowns, but even IF he get's him down ones or twice, Cain will be able to stand back up. And thats so important here, cause he is not Frank Mir and not 50 years old and slow. He is young, can take a punch and is extremely explosive. All those attitudes are missing in the Randy and Frank Mir fights.



Calminian said:


> Good points. Anyone who disses Cain's wrestling is making a huge mistake. This is going to be fairly even in the wrestling dept. The only thing I disagree with is that Lesnar struggled with Randy. I just didn't see it. He took Randy down several times and did well int he clinch which is Randy's specialty. Lesnar doesn't have any Greco-Roman experience that I know of. Lesnar landed good knees throughout the bout in the clinch, and barely took any damage the entire fight. And he did something few have done against Randy stopping him via strikes. I'd say it was a one-sided impressive win.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> So you only quote this part, cause you agree with the other one
> 
> You guys have fair points about the Randy fight. But the thing I was trying to say, is that Lesnar indeed got Randy down a couple of times. But the major thing is and thats what I was trying to tell you guys, is that Randy was able to stand back up!!!
> 
> And thats the important thing here. Cain has all those tools as well, to get back up underneath Brock and make him fight on his feet. The majority of time, Cain will stuff Lesnars takedowns, but even IF he get's him down ones or twice, Cain will be able to stand back up. And thats so important here, cause he is not Frank Mir and not 50 years old and slow. He is young, can take a punch and is extremely explosive. All those attitudes are missing in the Randy and Frank Mir fights.


Agree with that, actually. I'm still leaning Lesnar, but Cain is a beast and I don't see Lesnar shooting right off the bat taking him down. However, I think Lesnar will strike better against Cain than against Carwin, mainly due to height and reach differences. I think Lesnar will actually land some shots. I also see him pressing Cain against the cage and landing some knees. 

But I'm not going to be shocked if Cain hurts him on the feet and finishes. I wouldn't even be shocked if Cain shot and took Lesnar down. I can see several outcomes.


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## hatedcellphones (Dec 7, 2009)

Okay, so I read the first few pages of this thread and sort of skimmed the rest, so I may be behind the flow of this discussion, but I noticed everyone seems to point out that Kongo took Cain down in their fight. Considering that Cain can already outstrike Lesnar without much trouble and that Brock's strategy is heavily takedown based, don't you think they would work on Cain't TDD a LOT prior to this fight?

Jussayin...


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

I really don't think Cain will outwrestle Lesnar at least not in the first couple rounds. He had trouble getting Rothwell down until he gassed(which happened to be like 2 minutes into the fight...) and Lesnar has a much better base, more strength and a lot more cardiovascular endurance.

Anyone can take Kongo down... But Kongo also took Cain down... Both Kongo and Rothwell got up fairly easily from under Cain. To think that Velasquez can take down and hold Lesnar down is crazy imo.

This fight really comes down to striking imo and I don't think Velasquez's striking is as good as the UFC is hyping it up to be. Kongo rocked him multiple times, he couldn't really finished a wet noodle in Rothwell and everyone punches Nogueria in the face.

Lesnar would destroy Kongo, Rothwell and Nogueria in jsut as devestating a fashion as what Velasquez does. Could Velasquez do the same to Herring, Couture and Mir, could he survive against Carwin(I don't think so)? Lesnar has fought tougher opponents by far and defeated most of them with relative ease(Carwin being his only real challenge).


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

hatedcellphones said:


> Okay, so I read the first few pages of this thread and sort of skimmed the rest, so I may be behind the flow of this discussion, but I noticed everyone seems to point out that Kongo took Cain down in their fight. Considering that Cain can already outstrike Lesnar without much trouble and that Brock's strategy is heavily takedown based, don't you think they would work on Cain't TDD a LOT prior to this fight?
> 
> Jussayin...


Of course and I think this will be the key for both fighters, to surprise the other with skills they didn't expect. If Lesnar can land some strikes, that's going to be quite the shock to Cain and completely throw off his gameplan. If Cain and bully Lesnar, by not only stuffing TD's but maybe even shoot take him down, that's going to seriously deflate his sales. That's why this fight is so intriguing to me. I think both guys can pull some big surprises.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

420atalon said:


> I really don't think Cain will outwrestle Lesnar at least not in the first couple rounds. He had trouble getting Rothwell down until he gassed(which happened to be like 2 minutes into the fight...) and Lesnar has a much better base, more strength and a lot more cardiovascular endurance.
> 
> Anyone can take Kongo down... But Kongo also took Cain down... Both Kongo and Rothwell got up fairly easily from under Cain. To think that Velasquez can take down and hold Lesnar down is crazy imo.
> 
> ...


absolutely horrible post.


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## Flyingknee82 (Oct 18, 2010)

Got nothing against Lesnar but he shouldnt have the belt. He is a silver spoon fighter. Cain is a miniature mexican version of Carwin with better cardio and better hair. Lesnar will retain the title though since White showed in Lesnars fight against Carwin that he will not let the fight be called against the current champion even if he's having his ass handed to him. But how quick they stopped the Couture/Lesnar fight?


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

Flyingknee82 said:


> Got nothing against Lesnar but he shouldnt have the belt. He is a silver spoon fighter. Cain is a miniature mexican version of Carwin with better cardio and better hair. Lesnar will retain the title though since White showed in Lesnars fight against Carwin that he will not let the fight be called against the current champion even if he's having his ass handed to him. But how quick they stopped the Couture/Lesnar fight?


Yoikes dude!

I complete hate Lesnar... but I DO believe he should have the belt.

How can he be a silver spoon fighter? what does that make Mir and Carwin? Brock managed to defend his title TWICE...gmafb. 

I was cheering for Carwin... and there was NO WAY that it shoulda been stopped in round 1 ... Carwin simply could not close the deal.

I think Brock is a massive tool, but I respect the fact that he managed to get a title shot because of his 'draw' and WIN + DEFEND TWICE the title. If he sucked that much, he shouldnt have been able to win it ... Randy shoulda put on a clinic... but Randy couldnt... so give Brock props for that.

People complain that he just uses his 'size' to smother his opponent... uh... YEAH... duh! its not as if its a surprise to any of his opponents what he's bringing to the table... but so far they havent been able to counter it.

Dont hate the playa, hate the game


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## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

Flyingknee82 said:


> Got nothing against Lesnar but he shouldnt have the belt. He is a silver spoon fighter. Cain is a miniature mexican version of Carwin with better cardio and *better hair*. Lesnar will retain the title though since White showed in Lesnars fight against Carwin that he will not let the fight be called against the current champion even if he's having his ass handed to him. But how quick they stopped the Couture/Lesnar fight?


This man knows his win.


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## Can.Opener (Apr 8, 2009)

There's nothing left to say that hasn't been said, so...

Brock is going to beat the shit out of Velasquez in the first round. He's too big, too strong and too much beard.

RAWR


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## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

420atalon said:


> I really don't think Cain will outwrestle Lesnar at least not in the first couple rounds. He had trouble getting Rothwell down until he gassed(which happened to be like 2 minutes into the fight...) and Lesnar has a much better base, more strength and a lot more cardiovascular endurance.
> 
> Anyone can take Kongo down... But Kongo also took Cain down... Both Kongo and Rothwell got up fairly easily from under Cain. To think that Velasquez can take down and hold Lesnar down is crazy imo.
> 
> ...


Absolutely wonderful (opposite of horrible) post!


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

Flyingknee82 said:


> Got nothing against Lesnar but he shouldnt have the belt. He is a silver spoon fighter. Cain is a miniature mexican version of Carwin with better cardio and better hair. Lesnar will retain the title though since White showed in Lesnars fight against Carwin that he will not let the fight be called against the current champion even if he's having his ass handed to him. But how quick they stopped the Couture/Lesnar fight?


I just re-watched the Lesner Couture fight today and they didn't stop it that quick. Also Lesner was hitting Randy's head with almost every shot, when Randy went down. Carwin was getting mostly Brock's arms. He also made Randy do the chicken dance a couple of times in that fight. When randy got hit with that last shot he went down like a stone. Brock was hurt but he at least had enough left in him to run away. Even if you felt it was stopped quick Randy wasn't lasting much longer.

I felt they gave him his title shot too quick, but he won. Now it's up to someone to take it away. I think he deserves it.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

guy incognito said:


> absolutely horrible post.


Yet still far, far, superior to any of the 1,511 posts we've been unfortunate enough to be cursed with by yourself on mmaforum.

How are you even in the green? You are undoubtedly the most delusional, bias, and immature poster on these forums. 

Hopefully after Cain loses, you leave.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Wow, I'm glad that distinction wasn't bestowed upon me. However, I won't leave it Cain looses but and I hope he wins. Another thing it with Spike doing Brocktober, if Cain wins I'm going to laugh so hard I might die!:thumb02:


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

rygu said:


> Yet still far, far, superior to any of the 1,511 posts we've been unfortunate enough to be cursed with by yourself on mmaforum.
> 
> How are you even in the green? You are undoubtedly the most delusional, bias, and immature poster on these forums.
> 
> Hopefully after Cain loses, you leave.


yep my posts are so biased and bad that i am right the majority of the time.


absolutely horrible post.


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## Flyingknee82 (Oct 18, 2010)

Lesnar is a decent fighter with plenty of flaws to still be exposed. He is not, however, the future of heavyweight fighters in MMA. In my opinion, strictly my opinion, he's one HBO special away from being Mark Kerr.


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## RudeBoySes (Aug 9, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Yeah, both guys have advantages to them. Because Cain is smaller he is faster in his boxing and his overall speed. Brock's larger mass gives him more punching power and strength, but he sacrifices enough speed to make a difference!:thumbsup:


i disagree, Brock is as fast if not faster. People see his massive build and automatically assume he's slow. He is EXTREMELY fast for a big man. Cain's saving grace is his MMA is slightly more advanced but the edge is ever so thin.. Brock has truly been getting better and better every time i see him.. 

This fight will not be easy for either man... 

But i hope Cain pulls this off so i don't have to see Brock's steroid-typical body and mouth.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

cain is gonna be doing this all night bitches.










































and here is how good of a wrestler you have to be to stuff brocks takedowns.



















Damn carwins a fantastic wrestler


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

Couture got picked up and taken down a good number of times, he was just quick and got back up. His one takedown on Brock ended up in Couture getting GnPed for a bit, shortly after he getting up and KNFO.

If it's going to be a wrestling match, niether will take either down early. Brock can bull rush him and clinch him up perhaps. 

If one guy gasses before the other, that guy is going to be the better wrestler. But Brock has shown more resiliency in his ability to recover from damage and hasn't really gassed yet in a fight. Cain's best wrestling feat is holding down Kongo as they were both gassed and throwing G-n-smacks, as he coasted his way to a decision with ground control.

For Cain this fight has to be won with connecting with Brock's chin, being a sharp boxer and landing shots that'll make Brock see the flash BAM!. As far wrestling, especially in the cage, Brock clearly has the edge. 

YES size does matter, if you're a slow, unathletic wrestler, then it doesn't matter. Brock is obviously not a big slow, unathletic oaf. As far as credentials, Brock's 96% win record beats Cain's 84% win record. It's a matter of Cain imposing his will on stand-up early and trying to finish it early, if not, he's in trouble.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

MrObjective said:


> Couture got picked up and taken down a good number of times, he was just quick and got back up. His one takedown on Brock ended up in Couture getting GnPed for a bit, shortly after he getting up and KNFO.
> 
> If it's going to be a wrestling match, niether will take either down early. Brock can bull rush him and clinch him up perhaps.
> 
> If one guy gasses before the other, that guy is going to be the better wrestler. *But Brock has shown more resiliency in his ability to recover from damage* and hasn't really gassed yet in a fight. *Cain's best wrestling feat is holding down Kongo as they were both gassed and throwing G-n-smacks, as he coasted his way to a decision with ground control.*


1.no cain has, apart from an elbow and a punch on the ground none of carwins punches landed flush, they were hitting brocks arms while cain was hit flush on the chin twice consecutively by kongo and immediately got the TD and recovered. 

2.cain never gassed at all.


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## Flyingknee82 (Oct 18, 2010)

Don't really care who wins either way. Neither man has what it takes to issue in a GSP/Spider type era as the hw champion. And Broctober? WTF man? Just a tad bit biased. And just for the record, how is the world ever gonna be racially equal if we as a people keep pointing out when someone may be the first of their ethnicity to accomplish something? And how much are those big ufc hands I saw people wearing at ufc 120? Keep up folks, this is the good shit.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Flyingknee82 said:


> Don't really care who wins either way. Neither man has what it takes to issue in a GSP/Spider type era as the hw champion. And Broctober? WTF man? Just a tad bit biased. And just for the record, *how is the world ever gonna be racially equal if we as a people keep pointing out when someone may be the first of their ethnicity to accomplish something?* And how much are those big ufc hands I saw people wearing at ufc 120? Keep up folks, this is the good shit.


settle down president of politically correctness


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

Flyingknee82 said:


> Don't really care who wins either way. Neither man has what it takes to issue in a GSP/Spider type era as the hw champion. And Broctober? WTF man? Just a tad bit biased. And just for the record, how is the world ever gonna be racially equal if we as a people keep pointing out when someone may be the first of their ethnicity to accomplish something? And how much are those big ufc hands I saw people wearing at ufc 120? Keep up folks, this is the good shit.


I don't think Cain's focusing on t-shirts and logos.

Brock will sell a $hitload of fights and they are marketing him as such. Same as Tito being on this card. As well as introducing UFC fanbase to Jake Shields. Fake wrestling may be a failing company, but people watched it and they still watch it. Many people continue to watch it in to adolescence and beyond. Not just hicks from the U.S. - Think just about all of Asia (countries like India and China with middle classes larger than the US population, also the 3rd largest economy in the world Japan) - many people know who Brock Lesnar is. Fake wrestling's (and boxing's) biggest competition is MMA. MMA is winning, that's how they're playing it.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

guy incognito said:


> 1.no cain has, apart from an elbow and a punch on the ground none of carwins punches landed flush, they were hitting brocks arms while cain was hit flush on the chin twice consecutively by kongo and immediately got the TD and recovered.
> 
> 2.cain never gassed at all.


 
Your leaving the forum when Cain loses right??? Thought I remembered you making that claim.....just checking so I have yet even more to be excited about...


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

coldcall420 said:


> Your leaving the forum when Cain loses right??? Thought I remembered you making that claim.....just checking so I have yet even more to be excited about...


mentioned that in my gold thread yesterday, we are all very excited


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## Thunder1 (Aug 16, 2008)

Brocks going to eat a burrito and drink a corona for cain's "dam" heritage when he wins. That was funny.


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## RudeBoySes (Aug 9, 2010)

Thunder1 said:


> Brocks going to eat a burrito and drink a corona for cain's "dam" heritage when he wins. That was funny.


mmmm... i love bean burritos!

i would open it up, empty a few packets of hot sauce, mix it up thoroughly with a spoon, wrap it back up, and finally [email protected] it up!

cheap, filling, tasty, and healthy lunch


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

What happened to this thread? :confused02:


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Your leaving the forum when Cain loses right??? Thought I remembered you making that claim.....just checking so I have yet even more to be excited about...


Tehehe


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

MMARichie892 said:


> Brock has took a round of being beaten up by Carwin, a Much heavier hitter than Velasquez, he came out in round 2, took him down and tapped him out.
> Frank Mir - Took down, beaten up.
> 
> Brock's takedowns are too strong, velasquez isn't strong enough to stop them. Brock won't stand with velasquez or that would be stupid, he tried to take carwin down but carwin stopped it , and carwin is a whole lot stronger than Cain.
> ...


We've heard all this before, Lesnar took a 5min beating by Carwin and survived blah blah ... Velasquez will give him a 25min beating.

Lesnar's too strong for Velasquez? Yes.
Lesnar's shots are too strong? Yes.
Can Velasquez stop them? Yes - it's called technique, and that's the attribute where Cain absolutely wrecks Lesnar.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Indestructibl3 said:


> We've heard all this before, Lesnar took a 5min beating by Carwin and survived blah blah ... Velasquez will give him a 25min beating.
> 
> Lesnar's too strong for Velasquez? Yes.
> Lesnar's shots are too strong? Yes.
> Can Velasquez stop them? Yes - it's called technique, and that's the attribute where Cain absolutely wrecks Lesnar.


Let's not forget, though, this is a leaner meaner tofu eating Brock.


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## skinnyBIGGS (Jul 2, 2010)

Brocks punching power isnt really anything to boast as the people he knocked down have terrible standup defense Health herring , Brocks power is his weak ground n pound the whole weight system is flawed for Brock to have a advantage in size every fight (50lbs or more is fawked). Cain 1rnd KO sure Carwin s power is this and that but Cains boxing is very crisp and his shots will land cleaner then the slugger Carwin


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## skinnyBIGGS (Jul 2, 2010)

Calminian said:


> Let's not forget, though, this is a leaner meaner tofu eating Brock.


size never trumps skill , Lesnar could be the shape as the 80s Arnold lol wont make a diff cause no matter what there is a stand up exchange regardless of skill set and Lesnar wont be as effective as his size leads u to believe Carwin LOST that fight plain n simple , if cardio was there Lesnar would be irrelevant at the moment


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

skinnyBIGGS said:


> size never trumps skill , Lesnar could be the shape as the 80s Arnold lol wont make a diff cause no matter what there is a stand up exchange regardless of skill set and Lesnar wont be as effective as his size leads u to believe Carwin LOST that fight plain n simple , if cardio was there Lesnar would be irrelevant at the moment


What the heck did you just say? :confused02: Can someone translate??


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## Flyingknee82 (Oct 18, 2010)

Calminian said:


> What the heck did you just say? :confused02: Can someone translate??


He's saying that Lesnar came back from the future to kill john connor but carwin got in the way and was "terminated".


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

So who is Cain supposed to be in the Terminator mythology?


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> So who is Cain supposed to be in the Terminator mythology?


I would assume the T1000 - liquid metal!


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Ok, who is John Connor in all of this?


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## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

kantowrestler said:


> Ok, who is John Connor in all of this?


The fans.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

dario03 said:


> The fans.


That's what I was thinking. Lesnar is the evil terminator turned good to protect MMA fans from the futuristic smaller yet more technically superior liquid metal terminator.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, but the only reason the good terminator beat the liquid terminator is because he got a lucky shot in with a grenade launcher. Otherwise the T-1000 would've won. So you are pretty much saying Cain is likely to win!:thumbsup:


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> Yeah, but the only reason the good terminator beat the liquid terminator is because he got a lucky shot in with a grenade launcher. Otherwise the T-1000 would've won. So you are pretty much saying Cain is likely to win!:thumbsup:


Good will always find a way to triumph over evil.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well a T-1000 was a good guy in the Sarah Connor Chronicles, so who is to say Cain isn't the good guy?:thumb02:


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> Well a T-1000 was a good guy in the Sarah Connor Chronicles, so who is to say Cain isn't the good guy?:thumb02:


The t1000 was a chick in that and was evil.


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## Flyingknee82 (Oct 18, 2010)

Ok, let me break it down for you. Lesnar is the original Terminator as portrayed by Ahnold. Carwin was the biker which Lesnar killed, stripped and violated.(Don't remember that scene? Clearly you need to purchase the Come with me if you want to be back edition of this classic film.) John Connor is........MMA! Cain Velesquez plays the part of Sam Worthington, the bad boy terminator with a heart of gold. Dana White is skynet.


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## Abrissbirne (Jul 4, 2010)

Just rewatched Cain vs Kongo and if Cain fights like that he will get murdered.
1) If Cain gets hit like that from Brock its lights out.
He got rocked 4 times.
2) Kongo was able to take him down in the third, brock will do this easily.
3) He couldn´t finish Kongo, no way he is finishing Brock.

Cain just hasn´t faced anyone relevant, Nog is way past his prime and i don´t think Cain would have stand a chance against prime Nog.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Abrissbirne said:


> Just rewatched Cain vs Kongo and if Cain fights like that he will get murdered.
> 1) If Cain gets hit like that from Brock its lights out.
> He got rocked 4 times.
> 2) Kongo was able to take him down in the third, brock will do this easily.
> ...


The Cain that fought Kongo and the Lesnar that fought Carwin are long gone. The Cain that KO'd Nog is brutal. Nog's past prime but that that far. Not sure what Lesnar 2.0 looks like, but to be sure, these guys are rapidly improving.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Abrissbirne said:


> Just rewatched Cain vs Kongo and if Cain fights like that he will get murdered.
> 1) If Cain gets hit like that from Brock its lights out.
> He got rocked 4 times.
> 2) Kongo was able to take him down in the third, brock will do this easily.
> ...


cain would have molested prime nog, there is no difference between nog now and nog then, apart from his chin.

kongo has only been finished twice in his career, you might as well say brock couldn't finish herring so there is no way he is finishing cain. brock also hit herring flush and still couldn't put him out.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

Abrissbirne said:


> Just rewatched Cain vs Kongo and if Cain fights like that he will get murdered.
> 1) If Cain gets hit like that from Brock its lights out.
> He got rocked 4 times.
> 2) Kongo was able to take him down in the third, brock will do this easily.
> ...


Completely disagree.
I rewatched Cain vs Kongo as well...

1) If Cain gets clocked by Brock, odds are that he will be able to recover pretty quickly

2) Cain's tank seems limitless.

3) Kongo's shots to the back of the head seemed to not phase Cain too much


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

attention said:


> Completely disagree.
> I rewatched Cain vs Kongo as well...
> 
> 1) If Cain gets clocked by Brock, odds are that he will be able to recover pretty quickly
> ...


:confused02: I don't know about this analysis. If Lesnar lands the way Kongo did, it's going to be a long night for Cain. Surviving with Kongo on top is a lot different than surviving with Lesnar on top. Cain's main hope is that he'll dominate in the striking game. Lesnar landing to any degree tilts the odds in his favor.


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

Abrissbirne said:


> Just rewatched Cain vs Kongo and if Cain fights like that he will get murdered.
> 1) If Cain gets hit like that from Brock its lights out.
> He got rocked 4 times.
> 2) Kongo was able to take him down in the third, brock will do this easily.
> ...


After watching Cain sparring and training his boxing, it's clear that he knows how to put tight, precise powerful punches together, ie he looks like a boxer. Brock doens't.
If this stays standing for any length of time, I think Cain will get the KO.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, Cain has improved so much since his fight with Kongo. His wrestling is still very good. Also I'm sure his BJJ will come out in this match as well!:thumbsup:


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

No offense Kanto, but you are a retard.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

Calminian said:


> :confused02: I don't know about this analysis. If Lesnar lands the way Kongo did, it's going to be a long night for Cain. Surviving with Kongo on top is a lot different than surviving with Lesnar on top. Cain's main hope is that he'll dominate in the striking game. Lesnar landing to any degree tilts the odds in his favor.


If Lesnar lands like Kongo did, it wont matter because, although it dropped Cain like a sack of potatoes, Cain recovered almost instantly... Cain got clocked TWICE right on the button and you can tell for an instant that he had his bell RUNG... but did Cain run? or cover up? HELL NO... Cain was STILL the one in control. 

I dont believe the same can be said for Brock... *when Brock gets tagged, he hides/fades.*

Dont get me wrong, when Brock gets the upper hand anything can happen... but to base the Kongo fight as an example as why Cain will lose is just plain wrong IMHO.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, it shows how much of a fighter Cain is that he recovered so quickly. Brock probably never got hit that hard to he was probably a little shocked. The question is whether he can learn to take shots like that or try to avoid shots altogether, which could backfire!:thumbsup:


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

attention said:


> If Lesnar lands like Kongo did, it wont matter because, although it dropped Cain like a sack of potatoes, Cain recovered almost instantly... Cain got clocked TWICE right on the button and you can tell for an instant that he had his bell RUNG... but did Cain run? or cover up? HELL NO... Cain was STILL the one in control.
> 
> I dont believe the same can be said for Brock... *when Brock gets tagged, he hides/fades.*
> 
> Dont get me wrong, when Brock gets the upper hand anything can happen... but to base the Kongo fight as an example as why Cain will lose is just plain wrong IMHO.


gonna quote myself here


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Rusty sad


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

attention said:


> gonna quote myself here


I don't think Lesnar was even tagged when he faded though, that is what kind of surprised me about tonight. He just hit some adversity with not being able to hold Velasquez down and then just kind of gave up. Like his thinking is if I can't finish the first time I don't have a chance.

Didn't really think that Lesnar was really rocked at any time except maybe late when Cain was picking him apart.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

420atalon said:


> I don't think Lesnar was even tagged when he faded though, that is what kind of surprised me about tonight. He just hit some adversity with not being able to hold Velasquez down and then just kind of gave up. Like his thinking is if I can't finish the first time I don't have a chance.
> 
> Didn't really think that Lesnar was really rocked at any time except maybe late when Cain was picking him apart.


Actually, I thought Cain landed some really tight shots (not big, fence swinging ones)... which shook Brock up... and when he got tagged, he freaked and started to cover up


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Sometimes you gotta say HA HA


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## Flyingknee82 (Oct 18, 2010)

And the title changes hands. I dont feel Cain will be the one to reign over the HW division. Up next Dos Santos baby!


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

Flyingknee82 said:


> And the title changes hands. I dont feel Cain will be the one to reign over the HW division. Up next Dos Santos baby!


until he fights jds and carwin and gets caught slippin.


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## SOCALBEAST (Nov 2, 2009)

Good call..........................


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

wow 3 posts and your already calling the whole a bunch of morons, im sure you fit right in mate


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## Carlitoz3 (Oct 9, 2009)

MMARichie892 said:


> Brock has took a round of being beaten up by Carwin, a Much heavier hitter than Velasquez, he came out in round 2, took him down and tapped him out.
> Frank Mir - Took down, beaten up.
> 
> Brock's takedowns are too strong, velasquez isn't strong enough to stop them. Brock won't stand with velasquez or that would be stupid, he tried to take carwin down but carwin stopped it , and carwin is a whole lot stronger than Cain.
> ...


LMAO!!!! :angry02::angry02:


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

oh oh i know! i know!! is it cause brocks too big and a better wrester and too big for cain?!!!!
...... 

wait, wut?


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## starbug (Sep 9, 2007)

MMARichie892 said:


> Brock has took a round of being beaten up by Carwin, a Much heavier hitter than Velasquez, he came out in round 2, took him down and tapped him out.
> Frank Mir - Took down, beaten up.
> 
> Brock's takedowns are too strong, velasquez isn't strong enough to stop them. Brock won't stand with velasquez or that would be stupid, he tried to take carwin down but carwin stopped it , and carwin is a whole lot stronger than Cain.
> ...


Nah i think Cain takes it via TKO in the first


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