# ***OFFICIAL*** Kimbo Slice vs. Ken Shamrock Thread



## HitOrGetHit

*Main Event*

*Heavyweight bout: 265 pound Limit*


----------



## prospect

This might be a freak show but at least it got me more excited than hendo/tim did. i want kimbo to win but i think ken is taking this fight to the ground.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

prospect said:


> This might be a freak show but at least it got me more excited than hendo/tim did. i want kimbo to win but i think ken is taking this fight to the ground.


I just think it is dumb that it main events over a title fight.


----------



## Joabbuac

ken's gonna get hurt here...


----------



## hixxy

A fight were neither fighter has fought for over 4 years headlining over a title fight is not right. Obviously Bellator think the draw of the two names in question is worth it.

Ken Shamrock in my opinion should win this aslong as he avoids Kimbos hands in the first couple of minutes, then Kimbo will be done..


----------



## Joabbuac

hixxy said:


> A fight were neither fighter has fought for over 4 years headlining over a title fight is not right. Obviously Bellator think the draw of the two names in question is worth it.



They know what they are doing, as much as the hardcores will bitch and moan... Shamrock-Kimbo is way more marketable than that title fight.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Joabbuac said:


> They know what they are doing, as much as the hardcores will bitch and moan... Shamrock-Kimbo is way more marketable than that title fight.


It's not that we don't know what they are doing marketing wise with this. It's that the exposure is going to the wrong fighters. Sure people will probably watch Pittbull's fight before Kimbo's, but this card is all about slice/shamrock. Nobody hears anything about Pitbull or Chandler, 2 fighters that are infinitely more talented than the headlining fighters.


----------



## Warning

Joabbuac said:


> They know what they are doing, as much as the hardcores will bitch and moan




"hardcores" Like myself are looking forward to this fight. That and every other fight on the card. It really does not matter there names. I just like cage fighting. That is hardcore. Biching, complaining, and being cynical about mach ups is not hardcore. Just fair-weather fans


----------



## LizaG

Ken's knees won't allow him to take the fight to the ground. Kimbo via KO.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue

I'm with the rest of you in that it's complete bullshit that this is main eventing, but I'm still interested in the fight none the less. Why not? It's like when Glen McCrory wanted to fight Roy Jones Jr a few years ago. None of them are youngsters. Why not give it a shot?


----------



## HitOrGetHit

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I'm with the rest of you in that it's complete bullshit that this is main eventing, but I'm still interested in the fight none the less. Why not? It's like when Glen McCrory wanted to fight Roy Jones Jr a few years ago. None of them are youngsters. Why not give it a shot?


RJJ>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kimbo and Ken Shamrock combined.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue

Well I'm pretty sure this was in 2010 or 2011 when I think RJJ was on a losing streak. I remember seeing his record after a KO git Bloody Eblow a few months ago and was like "Wait, RJJ's won his last 6?" lol.


----------



## Joabbuac

He has been winning, but against some truly awful fighters. If he wins enough, i am sure they will call him up to get slaughtered against a top fighter.


----------



## oldfan

I'm just tickled that these two get their own "OFFICIAL" thread.:thumb02:

I usually like to cheer for the old guys and ken is damn near old as me but..... I can never get over the fact that Ken's best ever performance of his career was the time he threw in the towel against Fujita. that whole "heart of a lion" thing.... pure myth.

If ken can't finish it in the first round someone will have to throw in the towel ...again


----------



## Joabbuac

It surprises me when people say Kimbo will have to finish it quick or he will be done.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

oldfan said:


> I'm just tickled that these two get their own "OFFICIAL" thread.:thumb02:


Psh this fight is official.


----------



## King Daisuke

CupCake said:


> Ken's knees won't allow him to take the fight to the ground. Kimbo via KO.


Kimbo's fists will. Then Shamrock will submit him with the ankle lock.



Joabbuac said:


> It surprises me when people say Kimbo will have to finish it quick or he will be done.


----------



## Joabbuac

That does not change my opinion... Won't find out either way, Shamrock will throw this fight as soon as Kimbo throws a jab.


----------



## LizaG

Oh Ken, please tell me that is natural...


----------



## LizaG

*Ken Shamrock passes drug test*

http://www.mmamania.com/2015/6/10/8761597/bellator-138-ken-shamrock-passes-drug-test-insists-physique-hard-work-genetics-mma



> Bellator MMA held a special media conference call earlier today (Weds., June 10, 2015) to promote the upcoming Bellator 138: "Unfinished Business" fight card on June 19 in St. Louis, Missouri.
> 
> Front and center were Spike TV headliners Ken Shamrock and Kevin "Kimbo Slice" Ferguson.
> 
> Moments before MMAmania.com joined the line for today's call, Bellator President Scott Coker announced that both Shamrock and Ferguson passed their pre-fight drug tests. That was a concern for many fans, given Shamrock's amazing physique heading into next week's showdown.
> 
> So, how did "The World's Most Dangerous Man" get ripped so quickly?
> 
> "Hard work, and genetics. I think if you've watched me throughout my career, when I try to go and pack on weight, I'm not as lean. When I don't worry about packing the weight on, and I just worry about my cardio and speed, then I get leaner. That's just how I've been throughout my career. What you're seeing now is I'm putting in harder work."
> 
> It's possible Ken didn't understand what was meant when it was presented to him as an "amazing physical transformation," because "lean" doesn't quite describe his bulging biceps.
> 
> Shamrock elaborates:
> 
> "The reason why I'm putting (in) harder work is because I don't have the reaction time I used to have when I was younger, so that has slowed down a bit. So now I have to work harder to get to the area I want to get to to be able to successfully finish a combination or a single leg. So my work in the gym, I've never put this kind of work into my training for a fight, where I have been pretty much fighting for my life."
> 
> Ken was also asked what motivates him to continue fighting after a nearly five-year layoff from competing in MMA.
> 
> "I'm not looking to gain anything. I'm looking to live my life to its fullest. I really enjoy what I do, and I'm trying to put myself on the opposite side of the question when people ask me 'Well, why are you doing this?' I keep getting the same question over and over again."
> 
> The question is asked repeatedly because most 51-year-old men don't do what Shamrock will do on June 19th.
> 
> "I think it's probably very difficult for someone to understand or embrace the fact that I enjoy sparring, I enjoy preparing, I enjoy game planning and setting strategies, working with a group of people to accomplish a goal. To have a group of people who set out on a journey and they accomplish the goal that they set out on together, with all the plans working the way you want to, and standing there at the end and getting your hand raised... it's just a great feeling."
> 
> #TeamShamrock is what motivates Ken. Well, that and the chance to impose his will on Kimbo Slice.
> 
> "Listen, I don't think it's a secret that Kimbo Slice brings the fight. When he gets in the ring he's gonna bring it. So I don't think there's a question about what kind of fight this is gonna be. And so with two guys that like to bring it, there's going to be a strategy on my part, and a strategy on his part, and we're going to see which guy is going to be able to implement their strategy best."


----------



## King Daisuke

At least Ken had the decency to wear shorts instead of showing off his package like Cung Le did.


----------



## oldfan

> I just hope that he f--king pads his hands up so he can’t cut himself, and they keep all the sharp objects away from him,” Slice said during a conference call on Wednesday. “What is he gonna do next time: Shoot himself in the foot? I don’t know what Ken’s gonna do. I just hope he fights and takes this fight. Who cuts themselves? You do shit like that when you’re scared, when you’re afraid. I hope he fights. I hope he don’t p---y out. If he does, I’m going into the dressing room and we’re going to do an old fashioned bare knuckle right there. Right then and there in St. Louis. F--k it.”


can't blame kimbo for strong feelings about ken. just imagine how different kimbo's career and the whole MMA landscape *might* have been if ken had showed up and Kimbo won that night. Sure, maybe Elite was doomed anyway....but maybe not


----------



## DonRifle

Surely its an ankle lock finish for Ken. Get an underhook, push him to the fence, get the single leg, work position, snap on an ankle lock. Kimbo is no Alan Belcher and wont get out of it. The question for me is can Kimbo can rock him on the way in?

Kens been living in a trailer outside the gym for 3 months only eating sleeping and training. I reckon he gets that single leg


----------



## oldfan

I was sorta kinda looking forward to this fight, then this 30 second video killed that anticipation and probably shortened my expected life span.


----------



## LizaG

It's 2015 and we're talking of a big Ken Shamrock fight like it's 2004...life is good :thumbsup:


----------



## Joabbuac

DonRifle said:


> Surely its an ankle lock finish for Ken. Get an underhook, push him to the fence, get the single leg, work position, snap on an ankle lock. Kimbo is no Alan Belcher and wont get out of it. The question for me is can Kimbo can rock him on the way in?
> 
> Kens been living in a trailer outside the gym for 3 months only eating sleeping and training. I reckon he gets that single leg


Ken will get knocked out by Kimbo breathing on him....


----------



## K R Y

Old man Loga...Ken is going to take Slicey down and tap him quick.


----------



## LizaG

Weigh In Results:



> *Main card (Spike at 9 p.m. ET)*
> 
> Kimbo Slice (232) vs. *Ken Shamrock (204.4)*
> Patricio Freire (144.9*) vs. Daniel Weichel (144.5) - Freire was 145.2 on his first attempt
> Bobby Lashley (239) vs. Dan Charles (228)
> Daniel Straus (144.4) vs. Henry Corrales (144.9)
> Michael Chandler (155.6) vs. Derek Campos (152.5)
> 
> *Preliminary card (Bloody Elbow at 6:45 p.m. ET)*
> 
> Miles McDonald (115.3) vs. Dan O'Connor (115.3)
> Justin Lawrence (145.7) vs. Sean Wilson (145.8)
> Eric Irvin (155.6) vs. Hugh Pulley (155.2)
> Rashard Lovelace (160.6) vs. Matt Helm (164.8)
> Kain Royer (184.6) vs. Enrique Watson (185.8)
> A.J. Siscoe (135.5) vs. Garrett Mueller (135.6)
> Adam Cella (170.3) vs. Kyle Kurtz (171)
> Justin Guthrie (170.3) vs. Steven Mann (169.8)
> Garrett Gross (155.2) vs. Chris Heatherly (160*) - Heatherly will be subject to a fine


Ken is coming in at LHW for the fight it seems...


----------



## M.C

I am oddly interested in this fight.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## oldfan

Can we get a vbookie thread on this? although I still don't know who I'll bet on.

It's hard for me to imagine Ken winning any fight but Kimbo looked so bad at the weigh in that i started imagining it anyway.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

oldfan said:


> Can we get a vbookie thread on this? although I still don't know who I'll bet on.
> 
> It's hard for me to imagine Ken winning any fight but Kimbo looked so bad at the weigh in that i started imagining it anyway.


vBookie is up.

http://www.mmaforum.com/bellator-fc...bellator-138-kimbo-slice-vs-ken-shamrock.html

You all have until 9pm EST to get your bets in.


----------



## Leed

I know fighters say they feel the best ever, 10 years younger etc. and Ken did say something like he's feeling 10+ years younger, but damn, I just saw the weighins, 51 my ass, he looks like in his WWF days, which is weird, because a while back he looked like an old fart.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue

Gutted to see this isn't on SpikeUK.


----------



## SM33

This is horrific.

Ken is roided to fk, Kimbo is letting the belly slide, neither are real fighters nowadays, they're both getting main event, trailer trash are happy.

Gun to my head I pick Kimbo, I'm all for natural.


----------



## TestMonkeY

Anyway to watch this in UK? TV or Streaming off a website?


----------



## Joabbuac

TestMonkeY said:


> Anyway to watch this in UK? TV or Streaming off a website?


I normally torrent the stuff i can't get on the TV... try a KickassTorrents proxy.


----------



## LizaG

The time has come :thumb02:


----------



## Life B Ez

This is going to be awesomely amazingly bad.


----------



## boatoar

This is finally happening. It's a shitshow, but like everyone else has said I'm going to be watching. I used to be the biggest Kimbo fanboy back in the day as he was just hilarious to me. A man 30 lbs heavier , 10 years younger with far less fighting skill, but decent ko power should still win. Regardless, a Ken sub wouldn't shock me. I hope he doesn't throw the fight.


----------



## Life B Ez

This is literally the best thing Bellator ever could have asked for. They got a ton of casuals to watch Kimbo and all the fights were exciting.

Bellator is looking more and nd more like good old fun fun as **** strikeforce where there were no decisions because either someone was getting subbed or KOd because they only put huge mismatch skillsets together.

Wait is this the WWF?

Edit: LMFAO @ them using Kimbo's street fights in his entrance hype video hahahaha

This fight is fixed as ****. Ken just needed to show he could put up a fight. Full RNC by a guy who's been grappling his whole life and Kimbo does nothing and Ken let's him out only to stand right up and get knocked out. FIXED AS ****. Hahaha full Japan Bellator full Japan.


----------



## Rygu

There are no words as to how terrible that was.


----------



## Life B Ez

Rygu said:


> There are no words as to how terrible that was.


It was amazing. Fixed. But amazingm


----------



## HitOrGetHit

LOL at Kimbo thinking he evolved. His takedown defense is James Toney level and any fighter under the age of 112 years old finishes that choke.


----------



## LizaG

lol at Ken not getting that choke! WTF was that?


----------



## Life B Ez

CupCake said:


> lol at Ken not getting that choke! WTF was that?


That was Ken cashing a paycheck and not wanting his kneecaps broken.

Hahahahahahahah Kimbo "I been in that position before" lmao like that was some unique spot hahaha.


----------



## LizaG

lol Ken does get paid to make terrible people look better.


----------



## boatoar

roflmfao - oh boy. I hate using those acronyms, but that took the cake. 

Kimboooo!

Hahaha. I mean, part of me wants to believe a 51 year old shamrock just couldn't finish the choke against that iron neck of thug Slice, but the logical part of me feels like that choke could be finished in his sleep 1000000 times out of 1000000 

Dat gash though. haha


----------



## Andrus

I was scared once the choke was in that it was gonna be over. Thank god it wasn't. Kimbo is back!


----------



## M.C

Kimbo looked very impressive. It's extremely difficult to get out of a Sham choke like that, the acting skill it requires to make it look even remotely real is pretty high.

Seriously though, that fight was atrocious and embarrassing.


----------



## No_Mercy

sigh...lolz


----------



## Atilak

That fight was amazing! Kimbo is in great shape. He will be in UFC soon and getting that strap! What a fighter.













Roided Ken, Kimbo going to be Big country Kimbo, fixed as ****. This was kinda disgrace to mma.


----------



## oldfan

Ken should be embarrassed but I don't think he feels any shame.

.....Me, on the other hand, I bet on him ....:shame02::shame01: ...double bag please


----------



## UrbanBounca

oldfan said:


> Ken should be embarrassed but I don't think he feels any shame.
> 
> .....Me, on the other hand, I bet on him ....:shame02::shame01: ...double bag please


He won't feel any shame simply because he's too old to care anymore. He'll take an easy check, and throw a fight. It's a shame that's the direction MMA has taken, which is also the reason I quit watching consistently more than a year ago.

The UFC and Bellator are the only big boys left in town, correct? Bellator just threw all their credibility out after watching a street thug beat a man with 30+ years legitimate experience. Not only that, but it was the way it went down. Ken Shamrock has a RNC, locked, and Kimbo Slice manages to flop out of it? You'll never see me watch another Bellator fight, I can assure you of that.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

UrbanBounca said:


> He won't feel any shame simply because he's too old to care anymore. He'll take an easy check, and throw a fight. It's a shame that's the direction MMA has taken, which is also the reason I quit watching consistently more than a year ago.
> 
> The UFC and Bellator are the only big boys left in town, correct? Bellator just threw all their credibility out after watching a street thug beat a man with 30+ years legitimate experience. Not only that, but it was the way it went down. Ken Shamrock has a RNC, locked, and Kimbo Slice manages to flop out of it? You'll never see me watch another Bellator fight, I can assure you of that.


Bellator still has some really good talent, they just get overshadowed with weird fights like this.

Pitbull, Chandler, Curran, Lima, Brooks, Dantas, Warren, Straus, Daley, MVP, Schlemenko, Manhoef, Phil Davis off the top of my head.

Top to bottom there divisions are a little weak but there is some serious talent lurking around in Bellator.


----------



## DonRifle

oldfan said:


> Ken should be embarrassed but I don't think he feels any shame.
> 
> .....Me, on the other hand, I bet on him ....:shame02::shame01: ...double bag please


He's a man in his 50's, dont think he should be embarrassed about anything there. He put up a great effort and was within an inch of finishing him. Can't expect and guy that old bein through so many wars to be able to take a punch or scramble fast!
Credit Kimbo for that no quit attitude though. Didnt think he had it in him!


----------



## oldfan

DonRifle said:


> He's a man in his 50's, dont think he should be embarrassed about anything there. He put up a great effort and was within an inch of finishing him. Can't expect and guy that old bein through so many wars to be able to take a punch or scramble fast!
> Credit Kimbo for that no quit attitude though. Didnt think he had it in him!


I'm older than ken and I think that I could have finished that choke. when you call yourself a submission expert and a kimbo gives you his back.... yes you should feel shame. helio Gracie could have finished that choke when he was 80


----------



## DonRifle

oldfan said:


> I'm older than ken and I think that I could have finished that choke. when you call yourself a submission expert and a kimbo gives you his back.... yes you should feel shame. helio Gracie could have finished that choke when he was 80


Would have to disagree with you old buddy. What do you think Kimbo has been training solid the last few months? Submission defence! At ATT no less. As he said after the fight, you remove the decision to tap from the equation. He fought out of it with grit determination and good technique, which happens on every fight card in the UFC as well, and it happens a hell of a lot more these days. I remember Fitch getting out of a locked in Eric Silva choke. 
Belcher proved in the Palhares fight if you train defending something enough eventually they cant get you with it. He said for the first month of that he spent it getting tapped out to knee bars and heel hooks, eventually he got comfortable in the positions and was able to fight out of them easily. Kimbo just did the same thing!
Im pretty sure no man can take those kimbo punches, let alone a 50 year old giving up 30 pounds or whatever. 
No shame in it for my money!


----------



## HitOrGetHit

DonRifle said:


> good technique


Lol...


----------



## DonRifle

HitOrGetHit said:


> Lol...


What so fighting the hands and the grip to get out of a choke is bad technique?


----------



## HitOrGetHit

DonRifle said:


> What so fighting the hands and the grip to get out of a choke is bad technique?


He got out of it because it was Ken Shamrock in an awful fight. Any legit fighter of today would have finished that choke every time.


----------



## DonRifle

HitOrGetHit said:


> He got out of it because it was Ken Shamrock in an awful fight. Any legit fighter of today would have finished that choke every time.


He's a beat up an old guy in his 50's! wtf are you expecting? I mean if you think its a freak show why be interested in watching it in the first place. Gotta take it for what it was, an old legend on his last legs that nearly got one more victory on that record vs a street brawler turned MMA fighter. 
'Any legit' fighter, wtf man. Obviously neither of them are world class fighters, we know that already. 

As far as im concerned he had that choke on tight and most guys would have tapped to it. Sure Ken made positional mistake after a few seconds, but nobody is giving Kimbo any credit at all like he hasnt been defending chokes for the last few months and is just sitting on the porch eating fried chicken.
3 Times he went to sleep during training, that tells me he was never going to tap ever. He'd been there before. He was either going to sleep or fighting out of it, and he did the latter.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

DonRifle said:


> He's a beat up an old guy in his 50's! wtf are you expecting? I mean if you think its a freak show why be interested in watching it in the first place. Gotta take it for what it was, an old legend on his last legs that nearly got one more victory on that record vs a street brawler turned MMA fighter.
> 'Any legit' fighter, wtf man. Obviously neither of them are world class fighters, we know that already.


Right so the point being it wasn't that Kimbo has this great technique or has really evolved like he thinks he has. Ken is just old and basically gave up. Pulling the hand down on a choke is about the most basic defensive technique there is.



> As far as im concerned he had that choke on tight and most guys would have tapped to it.


Yeah most people would have tapped. Kimbo is just so good. :confused02:

Most people would never had been in that position to start with. Did you see those sorry ass takedowns Kimbo got caught with?



> Sure Ken made positional mistake after a few seconds, but nobody is giving Kimbo any credit at all like he hasnt been defending chokes for the last few months and is just sitting on the porch eating fried chicken.
> 3 Times he went to sleep during training, that tells me he was never going to tap ever. He'd been there before. He was either going to sleep or fighting out of it, and he did the latter.


Right and anyone outside of Ken Shamrock does put him to sleep. Im saying that choke was Ken's fault it didn't happen and less about Kimbo's grappling technique.


----------



## systemdnb

Kimbo should've been working on his take down defense but that's another story. Hasn't he said a billion times his knees are bone on bone. That's most likely what keeps him in boxing. He only did this fight cause it was supposed to happen along time ago and big $$$. I doubt they get him to come back and get spanked by someone his own weight and age. 

Secondly, I do think Kimbo has improved a lot. 5 years ago he would've tapped out. So big up Kimbo for learning what little he did in that time to save his ass in the fight last night. 

I predicted Kimbo first round KO, obviously, but I really though Kimbo was gonna go out. I think Ken just gassed out his arms on a dude much larger than him.


----------



## DonRifle

HitOrGetHit said:


> Right so the point being it wasn't that Kimbo has this great technique or has really evolved like he thinks he has. Ken is just old and basically gave up. Pulling the hand down on a choke is about the most basic defensive technique there is.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah most people would have tapped. Kimbo is just so good. :confused02:
> 
> Most people would never had been in that position to start with. Did you see those sorry ass takedowns Kimbo got caught with?
> 
> 
> 
> Right and anyone outside of Ken Shamrock does put him to sleep. Im saying that choke was Ken's fault it didn't happen and less about Kimbo's grappling technique.


Not sure why you were even interested to watch the fight bro. You just want to rag on the fighters. 
I just watched the choke again, he locked it in hard and gave it everything for about 10s. Kimbo didnt tap, showed huge heart not to do so. Watch it again and you tell me 9 out of 10 fighters would not have tapped right there. 
Ken then lost position slightly and Kimbo got the chance to fight the hands and got out of the choke and scramble. 
Ragging on a 50 year old guy because he cant finish a choke, down to the pure heart and training of his opponent and his own naturral physical decline, again I ask you why the **** are you watching or even slightly interested in a fight like that? 
Its like people coming out after Tito fought Bonnar. "An embarrasment to MMA', crap like that. If you've already decided both fighters are shit, and shouldnt be fighting anymore, whats the point watching it and getting high and mighty that a legit fighter would have done this or that. Watch legit fighters in their prime if thats what you wana see!


----------



## HitOrGetHit

DonRifle said:


> Not sure why you were even interested to watch the fight bro. You just want to rag on the fighters.


Well there were actual real fights featuring relevant fighters on the card. I find it hilarious that I am getting crap for ragging on a freaking Kimbo/Ken Shamrock fight in 2015 that headlined over a title fight. Then the fight itself turned out awful. 

I mean it was a 235ish poung Kimbo against a 205 51 year old Ken Shamrock. That is laughable enough.



> I just watched the choke again, he locked it in hard and gave it everything for about 10s. Kimbo didnt tap, showed huge heart not to do so. Watch it again and you tell me 9 out of 10 fighters would not have tapped right there.


I already answered this question.



> Ken then lost position slightly and Kimbo got the chance to fight the hands and got out of the choke and scramble.
> Ragging on a 50 year old guy because he cant finish a choke, down to the pure heart and training of his opponent and his own naturral physical decline, again I ask you why the **** are you watching or even slightly interested in a fight like that?


See above answer.



> Its like people coming out after Tito fought Bonnar. "An embarrasment to MMA', crap like that. If you've already decided both fighters are shit, and shouldnt be fighting anymore, whats the point watching it and getting high and mighty that a legit fighter would have done this or that. Watch legit fighters in their prime if thats what you wana see!


This is getting repetitive.


----------



## DonRifle

HitOrGetHit said:


> Well there were actual real fights featuring relevant fighters on the card. I find it hilarious that I am getting crap for ragging on a freaking Kimbo/Ken Shamrock fight in 2015 that headlined over a title fight. Then the fight itself turned out awful.
> 
> I mean it was a 235ish poung Kimbo against a 205 51 year old Ken Shamrock. That is laughable enough.
> 
> 
> 
> .


Yes Im sending you a whole dump truck of manure! 

Headlining, weight difference are other debates. D fight is D fight. In my eyes it was an old beat up warrior going into the ring for one last hurrah. He gave it his best shot and he failed. The body can only do so much. He has my respect for going through the training for that and getting as close as he did to winning. I expected him to be slow, I expected Kimbo to have poor takedown defence. Respect to Kimbo for not tapping out. Respect to Ken get in the ring at that age willing to get hit in the head from one of the hardest punchers ever.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

DonRifle said:


> Yes Im sending you a whole dump truck of manure!
> 
> Headlining, weight difference are other debates. D fight is D fight. In my eyes it was an old beat up warrior going into the ring for one last hurrah. He gave it his best shot and he failed. The body can only do so much. He has my respect for going through the training for that and getting as close as he did to winning. I expected him to be slow, I expected Kimbo to have poor takedown defence. Respect to Kimbo for not tapping out. Respect to Ken get in the ring at that age willing to get hit in the head from one of the hardest punchers ever.


I'm not saying I don't respect them and I won't say I wasn't somewhat curious about the fight. 

I am just arguing that I don't think Kimbo has evolved like he and others think he has. I think his mentality allowed him to sit in the choke, but I don't think his technique is much above a basic level still.


----------



## Voiceless

DonRifle said:


> Would have to disagree with you old buddy. What do you think Kimbo has been training solid the last few months? Submission defence! At ATT no less. As he said after the fight, you remove the decision to tap from the equation. He fought out of it with grit determination and good technique, which happens on every fight card in the UFC as well, and it happens a hell of a lot more these days. I remember Fitch getting out of a locked in Eric Silva choke.
> Belcher proved in the Palhares fight if you train defending something enough eventually they cant get you with it. He said for the first month of that he spent it getting tapped out to knee bars and heel hooks, eventually he got comfortable in the positions and was able to fight out of them easily. Kimbo just did the same thing!
> Im pretty sure no man can take those kimbo punches, let alone a 50 year old giving up 30 pounds or whatever.
> No shame in it for my money!


No, oldfan is right, Helio Gracie probably would have had success with that choke, because he wouldn't have made all those complete rookie mistakes Shamrock did. I give Shamrock his age and weight disadvantage, so in principal no shame at all to lose that fight against a younger and stronger opponent, BUT he was given the choke opportunity on a silver platter and executed it like a teenager who has never stepped on the mat of a grappling gym in his whole life, but only tried to simulate the stuff he has seen on TV without explanation.






Feet crossed, head pushing against Slice's head BEFORE hiding his locking arm behind his head, so of course he couldn't really lock that choke completely up. The only thing he does is burning his arms out. That was embarassing for someone who supposedly has 40 years of grappling experience.


----------



## LizaG

Watched this back a second time, at least Ken made it mildly competitive. Kudos on that for a 50+ guy. I thought he'd never attempt the TD as his knees were shot for years, they weren't great TD's by any means but he gave it all he had. Ken's chin has gone, but not his grappling.

Bless that old bugger!


----------



## Joabbuac

I said going in to this i though it could be a fix... still kind of thinking that. 

The fact Ken had the choke, kimbo acting like he was in serious danger... Kens dramatic fall at the end. This was a work.


----------



## LizaG

Anything said on what these guys are making for this fight? I'd be very interested to find that out.

Especially in comparison to others on the card beneath them.


----------



## oldfan

I want a gracie breakdown on kimbo's hands free choke escape.

That's some advanced shit.


----------



## Warning

Great fights all night. Much love to Ken for trying his best against a giant man.


----------



## systemdnb

I don't think this fight was a fix at all but I know there's only one way to settle it...A rematch


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue

I haven't read anything before this page on the card but I hope "fix" is bullshit. Man, I wanted Ken to take it but Kimbo has balls. He was INNNN that choke but he stayed in. I REALLY dont want Ken to retire cause there's a couple of guys he can beat and I'd like to see those fights happen.


----------



## Joabbuac

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I haven't read anything before this page on the card but I hope "fix" is bullshit. Man, I wanted Ken to take it but Kimbo has balls. He was INNNN that choke but he stayed in. I REALLY dont want Ken to retire cause there's a couple of guys he can beat and I'd like to see those fights happen.


Well... the reason i called fix on this before the fight even happened is because Ken has thrown fights before...


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue

Joabbuac said:


> Well... the reason i called fix on this before the fight even happened is because Ken has thrown fights before...


He probably shouldn't have very clearly attempted to choke Kimbo out then.


----------



## Joabbuac

ClydebankBlitz said:


> He probably shouldn't have very clearly attempted to choke Kimbo out then.


That was not and experienced grappler trying to choke someone out.... did you see that shit? Looked more like a guy trying to make it look like he was trying to choke him out.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue

You're right. Now that I think of it, Anderson Silva didn't look that experienced when Weidman knocked him out. I think that was a fix as well.

Anderson Silva is still the champ!!!!!!


----------



## UKMMAGURU

I have no clue how he didn't finish that choke.


----------



## LizaG

It was a sad Main Event that should never be spoken of again...

Bellator 139 next!!! :thumb02:


----------



## oldfan

maybe joe's crazy, maybe he's just talking **** about the competition .....maybe not.






That just aint the way a "submission expert" chokes somebody.


----------



## Joabbuac

ClydebankBlitz said:


> You're right. Now that I think of it, Anderson Silva didn't look that experienced when Weidman knocked him out. I think that was a fix as well.
> 
> Anderson Silva is still the champ!!!!!!


Because that is such a great comparison. Not sure what stake you have in this though... why are you denying how bullshit it looked? You have been watching mma long enough to know when something looks off.


----------



## Life B Ez

ClydebankBlitz said:


> You're right. Now that I think of it, Anderson Silva didn't look that experienced when Weidman knocked him out. I think that was a fix as well.
> 
> Anderson Silva is still the champ!!!!!!


What? For that to even be close to the same thing Silva would have had to knock Chris down and then refused to throw another punch and just allowed Chris to mount him when he moved in to follow up.


----------



## oldfan

> Ken Shamrock is not taking too kind to the fact that some people seem to think the “fix” was in for his bout with Kimbo Slice. Joe Rogan recently questioned the validity of Slice’s victory on his podcast, and some fans thought it was fishy the moment it happened.
> 
> Shamrock had a rear naked choke locked in minutes into the first round and it seemed like it was over. Slice was flattened out and the hold was tight, but he somehow managed to escape after it looked like Shamrock simply let go of the hold. The fight went to the feet shortly thereafter where Slice blasted Shamrock with a vicious set of punches, leading to the end of the fight.
> 
> Shamrock recently took to Facebook to lay rest to people’s claims of the fight being staged and explained what took place in the cage.
> 
> “Are you kidding me some people just can’t stand the truth it seems like what ever I do there has to be some of you that got to have a reason why things don’t go the way they should it happens &I am very discouraged myself I had the choke very deep & I made a rookie mistake I tried to reset it after I saw him tap & that’s when I lost position my fault
> & To set the record straight on the tap John McCarthy made it clear in the rules meeting do not look to the referee for help you do your job & I will do mine when kimbo taped it was not my job to make that call I should have continued putting that choke on till John stepped in I did not which was my fault &on top of it it was very week tap I believe he started to go out but I started to move in tighter on the choke instead of letting the choke work itself tighter as kimbo moved
> 
> I wanted to win this fight very bad it did not happen that’s it plain & simple
> I.love what I do I have been away from any activities for 7 yrs. I came into this fight very rusty that was to be expected but really believed I would still win even being rusty & giving up 30lbs &being 51 with all that said I missed finishing him by a mistake one that would not have happened if I had not taken so much time out of the cage


kimbo tapped :thumb02:


----------



## DonRifle

oldfan said:


> kimbo tapped :thumb02:


Just watched it again, he actually taps both hands once on the ground! @3.25. What Kens saying makes sense. Big John did Kimbo a favour.


----------



## marky420

ClydebankBlitz said:


> You're right. Now that I think of it, Anderson Silva didn't look that experienced when Weidman knocked him out. I think that was a fix as well.
> 
> Anderson Silva is still the champ!!!!!!


Actually, the first fight was a fix.

Boys and girls, we have found CM Punk's perfect opponent! Dana should pirate Shamrock's ass like Rampage, and set it up at a 205 catchweight early 2016. 

Ideal situation for the UFC. He's in his 30s being pushed by Roufus' cats everyday with a huge chip on his shoulder. He beats Shamrock, becomes an instant contender, then Ken heads back to Bellator for a rematch with Kimbo. 

Life is good.


----------



## LizaG

DonRifle said:


> Just watched it again, he actually taps both hands once on the ground! @3.25. What Kens saying makes sense. Big John did Kimbo a favour.


----------



## M.C

Ken seems to be holding onto it after he did his tap thing. So... a UFC Hall of Famer who has like 30 years of MMA experience is going to reset his choke after seeing a guy barely tap and seeing the ref do absolutely nothing about it. 

Either it is fixed, or Ken has learned very little about competing in MMA over the course of these 30 years. I'm willing to believe the latter to be honest.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue

Did Ken ever use GnP, let alone being 50? How is Ken even a submission master? Royce Gracie wouldn't stand a chance of getting a WW to the floor these days. Kimbo might be one dimensional too but Ken was hardly indestructible during his UFC run anyways.


----------



## Life B Ez

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Did Ken ever use GnP, let alone being 50? How is Ken even a submission master? Royce Gracie wouldn't stand a chance of getting a WW to the floor these days. Kimbo might be one dimensional too but Ken was hardly indestructible during his UFC run anyways.


I think it's more a guy who has been grappling for 30 plus years should be able to finish a full RNC rather quickly regardless of if he's 51 or not. Especially when there is literally zero defense being put forth.


----------



## Joabbuac

It looked very much like a WWE choke hold.


----------



## LizaG

Ken had no problem choking Bas Rutten into submission...how he couldn't to Kimbo is beyond me!


----------



## M.C

Life B Ez said:


> I think it's more a guy who has been grappling for 30 plus years should be able to finish a full RNC rather quickly regardless of if he's 51 or not. Especially when there is literally zero defense being put forth.



Not to mention that for 50 Ken is in great shape and Kimbo is in his 40s, its not as if Ken is fighting some young lion, he is fighting another old man (in mma years). 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## hadoq

the whole fight looked fishy to me, and I'm not surprised that people (including myself) believe it may have been fixed.

but then again, that's what you get when you try to cash in on name value alone. Those two should be long retired.

I wouldn't mind having this as some prelims main event or main card 1st fight, but Kimbo Slice vs Ken Shamrock as a main event?

it doesn't make any sense, unless you make it so people are excited and talk about this fight (like an ongoing feud/story, and a comback during the fight, you know, stuff like that)

how kimbo (remember, kimbo slice, we're not talking about some crazy BJJ mastermind here) gets out of that choke is beyond me, the fishy clinch without much punches or knees or much of anything really. 

But even if it wasn't fixed, honestly, I don't know, nobody here knows for sure. 

but the fact that there is a doubt, it's not good for Bellator. But then again, Kimbo vs Shamrock as main event? the thing sounds like a joke to begin with. now rumours of the fight being fixed...


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue

Life B Ez said:


> I think it's more a guy who has been grappling for 30 plus years should be able to finish a full RNC rather quickly regardless of if he's 51 or not. Especially when there is literally zero defense being put forth.


But his last RNC finish was 21 years ago over a guy who retired with a record of 16-28. 

Kimbo Slice is probably more knowledgeable about MMA than half the guys Ken fought.

And how was it a WWE choke? Ken couldn't get the arm in behind the neck so he was going palm to palm. Kimbo was pealing it off, something Jon Fitch did several times in fights. Ken was struggling to get the finish so he was adjusting but Kimbo eventually got out. I don't see how this fight could be a fix at all.


----------



## Killz

Ken should have went mad and slapped on the ankle lock. Everyone taps to that! 


Fishy. As. ****!


----------



## Voiceless

ClydebankBlitz said:


> But his last RNC finish was 21 years ago over a guy who retired with a record of 16-28.
> 
> Kimbo Slice is probably more knowledgeable about MMA than half the guys Ken fought.
> 
> And how was it a WWE choke? *Ken couldn't get the arm in behind the neck so he was going palm to palm.* Kimbo was pealing it off, something Jon Fitch did several times in fights. Ken was struggling to get the finish so he was adjusting but Kimbo eventually got out. I don't see how this fight could be a fix at all.


He couldn't get his arm behind Slice's head, because he blocked the way for his arm with his head pressing against Slice's head. Amateurish. Maybe he was too nervous and tensed up and that's why he f*cked it up, but man, bringing your hand behind your opponent's head before locking it up with your head should be an automatism.


----------



## DonRifle

Given Kimbo actually tapped, technically Ken finished the choke. When he tapped, he adjusted and lost position. Probably he thought the fight was done. 

I really dont know what planet people are on calling it a fixed fight. Its Ridiculous. (with a capital R)


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue

Voiceless said:


> He couldn't get his arm behind Slice's head, because he blocked the way for his arm with his head pressing against Slice's head. Amateurish. Maybe he was too nervous and tensed up and that's why he f*cked it up, but man, bringing your hand behind your opponent's head before locking it up with your head should be an automatism.


I've seen finishes like that loads of times in the WWE from active athletes. Ken Shamrock in his prime would probably be top 5 worst MMA fighters in the UFC roster today. Are you guys assuming he's some jiu jitsu wizard? Ken Shamrock's submission game is on par with Royce Gracie's wrestling game. It worked when guys were clueless.


----------



## Voiceless

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I've seen finishes like that loads of times in the *WWE* from active athletes. Ken Shamrock in his prime would probably be top 5 worst MMA fighters in the UFC roster today. Are you guys assuming he's some jiu jitsu wizard? Ken Shamrock's submission game is on par with Royce Gracie's wrestling game. It worked when guys were clueless.


Typo¿

He doesn't need to be a Jiu Jitsu wizard. We're not talking about the chess aspect of BJJ and planing how to prepare the technique with three transitions in advance. We are talking about a basic technique you learn in your 2nd or 3rd year of kids Judo applied by a professional fighter who doesn't just go two times a week to a primary school kids gym.

Can you choke out someone with non-perfect technique¿ Yes, you can, i.e. by pure force, but it's so much easier to escape than when applied correctly. It's just sad that a professional fighter with so many years of experience does basically EVERYTHING wrong what you can do wrong with this basic technique. From crossing the feet to not correctly placing his locking hand.


----------



## oldfan

Voiceless said:


> Typo¿
> 
> He doesn't need to be a Jiu Jitsu wizard. We're not talking about the chess aspect of BJJ and planing how to prepare the technique with three transitions in advance. We are talking about a basic technique you learn in your 2nd or 3rd year of kids Judo applied by a professional fighter who doesn't just go two times a week to a primary school kids gym.
> 
> Can you choke out someone with non-perfect technique¿ Yes, you can, i.e. by pure force, but it's so much easier to escape than when applied correctly. It's just sad that a professional fighter with so many years of experience does basically EVERYTHING wrong what you can do wrong with this basic technique. From crossing the feet to not correctly placing his locking hand.



...yeah well clyde has seen it work loads of times in the WWE... so there! :laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue

Obvious typo is obvious, although Samoa Joe has a pretty nasty Coquina Clutch 

Nah I mean, the way Ken tried to use the choke, you see a lot of times people don't go behind the head. You see a lot of times people apparently having it sunk in and not be able to finish. You see a lot of times that people can peel the hands off.

I don't see what's so bizarre about this. Ken Shamrock isn't anywhere close to the submission or grappling ability of half the UFC roster and if you see fighters unable to get their hand behind the head in there, why's it so strange that he couldn't get it here?


----------



## oldfan

> Strikeforce was most known for putting on some of the most bizarre fights in mixed martial arts. After PRIDE closed their doors, Strikeforce was one of the last major organizations to give fighters who would usually have to start out on bottom a major stage to showcase their skills.
> 
> Former NCAA Heisman Trophy winner and NFL football player Herschel Walker made his professional fighting debut at Strikeforce in 2010 against Greg Nagy. Nagy was finished in the third round and Walker’s stock skyrocketed in his first fight!
> 
> Now, Walker is eyeing a comeback to the cage and Bellator could be his new phone.
> 
> “Scott is like family to me. Scott gave me an opportunity to fight and it wasn’t JUST an opportunity. He told me to go get a good training camp in. A mistake is that people think you can just walk off the football field and get right into the cage to fight. Well you can’t do it. I’m living proof that you can’t do it. I had to go to a training camp for nine months before I got my first fight.”
> 
> When asked if he could make a comeback to the cage, Walker told MMAFighting, “I’d still fight because I still train, I’d step back in the cage and fight a little bit.”


 I've been a fan of Herschel's since we were both kids. he's 2 years older than ken, had 1 or two fights, never been known as a "submission expert" and I guarantee when he gets that position, Kimbo's going to sleep. 

Book it Scott PLEASE.


----------



## Term

Hershel has a few more years of fighting then he wants to go back and play pro football again. :smoke02:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-herschel-walker-nfl-20150618-story.html



> "I've thought about it," Walker said on the "Boomer & Carton" radio show, "but I'm still fighting. I've got to get out of the fighting first. Once I get out of the MMA stuff, then I may go back and play. I want to be the George Foreman of football."


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue

oldfan said:


> I've been a fan of Herschel's since we were both kids. he's 2 years older than ken, had 1 or two fights, never been known as a "submission expert" and I guarantee when he gets that position, Kimbo's going to sleep.
> 
> Book it Scott PLEASE.


Because Herschel Walker is about 30 times the MMA fighter that Ken Shamrock was in his prime. Strikeforce Miami is one of the cards that made me a huge fan of MMA and Walker at 50 something or whatever looked like he could really make an impact on MMA with a few years. Absolutely incredible athlete. 

Hershel Walker beats Ken easily. Has about a 60% chance of beating Kimbo, probably 50/50 with Bobby.


----------

