# If JDS was to fight overeem...



## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

Well not really just JDS, but any top level HW striker in the UFC, i think the reem would get crushed. I just got done watching plenty overeem videos and this is what ive noticed : He has alot of power. Hes technical. And thats it, he doesnt have great footwork, his head movement is pretty good but he only uses when he sees the punch coming (as in hes not always moving his head. I believe head movement is continual, not situational). I can see jds completely outstriking reem with relative ease, just staying on the outside, using the jab, using his footwork, and hardly getting scratched. I think it would look alot like the carwin fight but not as bad of a beat down. You guys will probably rage at me for this but i dont think hes as good of a strike as acclaimed to be, or anywhere near. Hes very stiff but he does use kicks and knees its just hes not on the balls of his feet, hes on his heels. Which wouldve work a few years ago but i believe the power punching, stiff, HW strategy is almost out the window now. People like jds and cain are constantly moving and are alot harder to hit because of it. They also land more punches because of it. The war is on mmaforum. Top level UFC hw strikers > reem



Heres a video of the brett rodgers fight :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJnsyjI2S0U


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## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> Well not really just JDS, but any top level HW striker in the UFC, i think the reem would get crushed. I just got done watching plenty overeem videos and this is what ive noticed : He has alot of power. Hes technical. And thats it, he doesnt have great footwork, his head movement is pretty good but he only uses when he sees the punch coming (as in hes not always moving his head. I believe head movement is continual, not situational). I can see jds completely outstriking reem with relative ease, just staying on the outside, using the jab, using his footwork, and hardly getting scratched. I think it would look alot like the carwin fight but not as bad of a beat down. You guys will probably rage at me for this but i dont think hes as good of a strike as acclaimed to be, or anywhere near. Hes very stiff but he does use kicks and knees its just hes not on the balls of his feet, hes on his heels. Which wouldve work a few years ago but i believe the power punching, stiff, HW strategy is almost out the window now. People like jds and cain are constantly moving and are alot harder to hit because of it. They also land more punches because of it. The war is on mmaforum. Top level UFC hw strikers > reem
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL at Cain being hard to hit. That guy gets puched in the face quite a bit. But because he has a ton of heart and cardio he just walks through them usually.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

JDS has better boxing than Overeem it would seem, but Overeem has kicks and more notably a great clinch game. If JDS tries to work from the outside Overeem will move forward until it turns into a proper fight. He's good enough of a striker to cut JDS off and force him into it, and that's where Overeem will be dangerous.

They are very well matched. JDS is a great boxer with good footwork and Overeem is a great kick boxer with a good clinch game.

:fight02:


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

leifdawg said:


> LOL at Cain being hard to hit. That guy gets puched in the face quite a bit. But because he has a ton of heart and cardio he just walks through them usually.


Most of the punches he takes are glancing blows. (atleast recently, he improved alot since kongo)



Hiro said:


> JDS has better boxing than Overeem it would seem, but Overeem has kicks and more notably a great clinch game. If JDS tries to work from the outside Overeem will move forward until it turns into a proper fight. He's good enough of a striker to cut JDS off and force him into it, and that's where Overeem will be dangerous.
> 
> They are very well matched. JDS is a great boxer with good footwork and Overeem is a great kick boxer with a good clinch game.
> 
> :fight02:


Its hard to utilize a clinch game vs guys like jds. Just took quick and slippery to get a hold of. Yes his kick boxing is good, but jds is a counter striker. Every time he sees the leg kick coming, hell jab. and sooner or later reem will stop kicking. Great fight, but i see it being one sided.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

Overeem's only weakness on the feet is that his hands are not the most technical. However he does have the flexability of using his kicks which is a weapon JDS rarely uses and hasn't encountered too often in his UFC career. At least at the level of Overeem. IN K-1 Overeem will get outpointed on a regular basis, only to KO his opponent with his friggin insane power. 

JDS has never (to my knowledge) fought an opponent with the power (and technique to back it up) of Overeem. But in every case hwere its been said "he's never faced a guy like -insert adjective-" he's won so... I would never count him out in any situation. 

I see Overeem throwing tons of kicks, and looking for the KO bomb. But I see JDS countering off that kick attempt and landing jabs in the early goings and in the latter goings, power punches behind it. 

I think Overeem's chin is solid and it would take a serious flurry after a flush power punch to finish him. I can see JDS taking this one by UD. But if this one is finished, I'd say Overeem takes it by probability.


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

We've seen Overeem give up and crumble before aswell, admittedly JDS hasn't been put into that predicament yet but i'd fancy JDS in this fight.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Money Mayweather says you don't know what the **** you are talking about. Constant head movement isn't real head movement and isn't good defense. The Reem implements an excellent high guard, uses the duck under to counter punch in the pocket, and moves his head every time he throws and is thrown at. That is proper boxing/kickboxing defense. Cain would get his head knocked off in under a minute if he decided to stand with Overeem he has terrible defense. JDS would get battered with kicks if he tried to fight Overeem the way he fought Carwin.


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## fjurado (Oct 23, 2008)

JDS did look Human when he fought Big Country!


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

The speed difference in JDS vs. Overeem would be like the speed difference of Frankie Edgar vs. Butterbean. Overeem is in slow motion at his new weight and JDS is the fastest guy above 220lbs.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

JDS has faster hands than overeem. 

That being said overeem would stalk JDS where he would KO JDS after cutting him off or JDS would get on a bike and try to use the jab until overeem clipped him cut off his legs and knocked him out. I see JDS taking some big shots and getting brutalized the entire fight, if he can mix in a few takedowns or keep the range and survive he could beat overeem by UD with any luck. 

Overeem is the best heavyweight striker in mma, but I don't think he'll ever be champ unless JDS manages to beat cain.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Where exactly are these amazing leg kicks coming from? Overeem is the guy who gets legkicked not the guy who leg kicks. Show me one fight where his leg kick were a factor?


The funny part here is, even though I'm confident JDS would be the one stalking Overeem and being way quicker to the punch, JDS could also take Overeem down at will if the fight was going differently. But there's no way Overeem comes close to taking Cigano down.


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## METALLICA_RULES (Feb 12, 2011)

I reckon JDS would knock Reem out.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

Err... let me get this straight...

Reem is a professional Kickboxer... ie. professional striker.
Not only did he compete in K1, but he won the grand prix...

...and yet JDS is the better striker :confused02:

Reem has fought the best pure strikers in the world... and yet JDS is the better striker of the two (!?!?)

yeah, I simply cannot agree


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

attention said:


> Err... let me get this straight...
> 
> Reem is a professional Kickboxer... ie. professional striker.
> Not only did he compete in K1, but he won the grand prix...
> ...


Alot of the guys Overeem beat in K-1 were also better strikers, Overeem does good because he hits and people go down. The Reem is a great striker by mma standards but in K-1? He is kinda like the Brock Lesnar of kickboxing.

Its really hard to gauge JDS/Overeem as a stand up fight because we are fully aware that while beatable The Reem can stand with somebody of JDS's caliber but we have not seen JDS fight anyone with the caliber of stand up that Overeem has.


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## FixedPartialArt (Jun 14, 2011)

I'm just lol'ing at the statement that K1 Grand Prix winner Allistair Overeem wouldn't be up to snuff in the striking department against the UFC's best.

The high level strikers in the UFC include JDS, and then.....

Dave Herman? Hell of a talent, but he uses his face to block punches, which would be a really good strategy against Ubereem. 

Pat Barry? Ubereem is much more physically gifted and had the much more impressive wins in kickboxing.

Cain is a strong striker, for a wrestler. He wins more because he's a mixed martial artist in the truest sense. Of course he was going to look like a striking wizard against Brock and Minotauro. Brock's not very fluid or technical, while Minotauro never was a good striker and is over the hill now.

There isn't much to speak of for high level strikers in the UFC's heavyweight division. It's a wrestler heavy roster. That's why JDS has been undefeated so far with plus striking in conjunction w/ TDD. It's the same formula that Arlovski used to win his last 5 in the UFC and/or against current members of their roster, and BTW he beat the same and a little tougher comp in that span than JDS has during his streak. Then Arlovski immediately subsequent went on to lose four straight to members of the Strikeforce HW tournament. The striking and overall level is just higher in Strikeforce, and if Reem ends up faring well there, certainly he would in the UFC. The question is will Dana wait until Reem and the other Strikeforce guys have been through the wars and are well in their 30's so the UFC members can make their names off them ala Cro Cop and Nog.


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

Striking-wise, the guy is the best in MMA. On the feet, I don't see anyone having much luck against him if they weren't to threaten him with TDs (ala Cain Velasquez's stand-up style).



leifdawg said:


> LOL at Cain being hard to hit. That guy gets puched in the face quite a bit. But because he has a ton of heart and cardio he just walks through them usually.


... really? I know you're referring to Kongo, but he's improved tenfold since then. His standup against Nog was flawless, as well as his destruction of Brock. Looking forward to see how he does against another high-level striker in JDS.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

attention said:


> Err... let me get this straight...
> 
> Reem is a professional Kickboxer... ie. professional striker.
> Not only did he compete in K1, but he won the grand prix...
> ...


JDS is the Brazilian professional heavyweight kickboxing champion, undefeated. 

He also knocked Yvel out in two minutes - Remy Bonjasky's key sparring partner. 



Mousasi also beat the K-1 HW champion, I guess he would beat JDS too.


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## FixedPartialArt (Jun 14, 2011)

khoveraki said:


> JDS is the Brazilian professional heavyweight kickboxing champion, undefeated.


Obviously the competition doesn't near compare to who Overeem has beaten in kickboxing (and to a lesser extent MMA).

That doesn't mean JDS wouldn't wind up proving to be the better striker/mixed martial artist, because you can only beat who you face, but I'll go with the guy who has already shown his abilities against higher level competition. Also, the guy who possesses a 4-5 inch reach advantage. Having a long reach among your attributes is vital to being the top fighter in your division across MMA. GSP, JBJ, Anderson, Aldo, Cruz, and Edgar all have significantly above average reaches for their respective divisions.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> Where exactly are these amazing leg kicks coming from? Overeem is the guy who gets legkicked not the guy who leg kicks. Show me one fight where his leg kick were a factor?
> 
> 
> The funny part here is, even though I'm confident JDS would be the one stalking Overeem and being way quicker to the punch, JDS could also take Overeem down at will if the fight was going differently. But there's no way Overeem comes close to taking Cigano down.


Yeah, The Reem has never thrown a kick in his life apparently. Carwin landed leg kicks on JDS shut up about how he is so fast no one can hit him fat slow gassed Roy Nelson landed on him a bunch of times. He is quick for a HW Badr Hari is about 50 times faster and more skilled than JDS and Overeem landed on him. 

I love how people in this thread are acting like Overeem is Carwin. Overeem has high level technique as well as power. He went to decision in a close match with Remy and a lot of people thought he won. You don't do that with poor skills. He isn't just some KO artist he picked Aerts apart and nearly beat him to death in the ring twice. JDS is not a better striker than him he is a more technical offensive boxer and the gap in boxing isn't nearly as large as the advantage Overeem has in MT. 

This isn't a biased evaluation either JDS is my favorite HW fighter not Overeem. You people just need to snap back to reality. I think the fight would be a toss up between the two and really only because Overeem has shown that he can be put away several times and JDS hasn't.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

FixedPartialArt said:


> Obviously the competition doesn't near compare to who Overeem has beaten in kickboxing (and to a lesser extent MMA).
> 
> That doesn't mean JDS wouldn't wind up proving to be the better striker/mixed martial artist, because you can only beat who you face, but I'll go with the guy who has already shown his abilities against higher level competition. Also, the guy who possesses a 4-5 inch reach advantage. Having a long reach among your attributes is vital to being the top fighter in your division across MMA. GSP, JBJ, Anderson, Aldo, Cruz, and Edgar all have significantly above average reaches for their respective divisions.



If you're gonna play the competition card that opens up a big can of worms regarding Overeem when his best wins of recent are Todd Duffee and Brett Rogers. Hell Overeem's toughest and biggest fight in years is against a guy JDS knocked out in seconds.


The reach thing is silly too. Edgar has a tiny reach even for his division. Aldo's reach is totally average, so is Cruz. JDS' reach was a lot less than Carwin's and he still easily beat him to the punch and outjabbed him.


edit: Carwin lands one kick to JDS' ass and one kick to his leg and that's why Overeem would beat him? That's absurd. Who has Overeem outstruck at heavyweight IN THE SPORT WE'RE DISCUSSING? 


Again, Mousasi beat the K1 heavyweight champ. And Kongo is a world muay thai champion but look how Mir dropped him. And if you want to talk about Overeem in K1, watch Saki light Overeem up and tool him with ONE ARM before the ref stopped it due to his injury.



How about we put this topic on hold until tomorrow when Overeem finally fights some real competition worth discussing.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Carwin is a job at Sam's Club away from being Brett Rogers.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> Where exactly are these amazing leg kicks coming from? Overeem is the guy who gets legkicked not the guy who leg kicks. Show me one fight where his leg kick were a factor?
> 
> 
> The funny part here is, even though I'm confident JDS would be the one stalking Overeem and being way quicker to the punch, JDS could also take Overeem down at will if the fight was going differently. But there's no way Overeem comes close to taking Cigano down.


JDS stalking Overeem?? I seriously doubt that. Overeem would take that as a chance to swing power punches and i guarantee its JDS that would drop. JDS didnt even do a great job stalking a beaten Carwin and Carwin is 1/10th the striker overeem is. Also JDS has better wrestling but Overeem is much stronger. He might get Overeem down but its going to be anything but at will. 

I find Overeem to be alot more awkward on his feet BUT he finds success. Im giving Overeem the nodge with taking the W on 2 out of 3 fights.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

osmium said:


> Carwin is a job at Sam's Club away from being Brett Rogers.



Maybe if Rogers had KO'd Bigfoot, nearly murdered Werdum in rd 1, and then put a beating on the defending champion for the first time in his career, sure.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> Maybe if Rogers had KO'd Bigfoot, nearly murdered Werdum in rd 1, and then put a beating on the defending champion for the first time in his career, sure.


So does everything you read just end up looking like Junior Dos Santos?

Carwin and Rogers both have 1 big win against guys with a history of having weak chins and a bunch of KO wins over cans. Rogers fight with Fedor was as impressive as Carwin punching Brock in the arms a bunch of times.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

khoveraki said:


> JDS is the Brazilian professional heavyweight kickboxing champion, undefeated.


But being a Brazillian hw champ is a far cry from being a K1 grand prix champ.



khoveraki said:


> He also knocked Yvel out in two minutes - Remy Bonjasky's key sparring partner.


Seriously going to try to use a 'sparring partner' as an equivalent? geeze, you gotta do better than that.



khoveraki said:


> Mousasi also beat the K-1 HW champion, I guess he would beat JDS too.


LOL, Mousasi fought a past prime Musashi... not the same thing as a full tourney of pro hw kickboxers.

Im not saying JDS is a push over in the striking department...but I dont think he would be as dominant vs Reem as people are making him out to be in this thread

EDIT: I think Reems fight vs Werdum will shed some light on his striking ability


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> He also knocked Yvel out in two minutes - Remy Bonjasky's key sparring partner.


Sir! Nay!

To even mention Gilbert Yvel in the same sentence. Even separated by a "-" is to besmirch Remy Bonjasky's good name and fighting abilities. Yvel is a wild brawler who would be lucky and grateful to hand wash Bonjasky's sweaty nut guard. 

Yvel is a little bitch and Bonjasky is a god! Good day sir! I said good day!

(JDS is a good striker and the better mixed martial artist, if it comes down to it we should bet on it  also don't forget we have a bet on kongo/barry  )


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

xeberus said:


> Sir! Nay!
> 
> To even mention Gilbert Yvel in the same sentence. Even separated by a "-" is to besmirch Remy Bonjasky's good name and fighting abilities. Yvel is a wild brawler who would be lucky and grateful to hand wash Bonjasky's sweaty nut guard.
> 
> ...


Gilbert Yvel is a skilled kickboxer to call him a wild brawler is nothing short of ludicrous.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

osmium said:


> Carwin is a job at Sam's Club away from being Brett Rogers.


Rogers wouldn't last 2 minutes with Carwin. I'm pretty sure you know this.


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## EagleClaw29 (Oct 24, 2010)

FixedPartialArt said:


> Obviously the competition doesn't near compare to who Overeem has beaten in kickboxing (and to a lesser extent MMA).
> 
> That doesn't mean JDS wouldn't wind up proving to be the better striker/mixed martial artist, because you can only beat who you face, but I'll go with the guy who has already shown his abilities against higher level competition. Also, the guy who possesses a 4-5 inch reach advantage. Having a long reach among your attributes is vital to being the top fighter in your division across MMA. GSP, JBJ, Anderson, Aldo, Cruz, and Edgar all have significantly above average reaches for their respective divisions.


I was reading your post about guys having 4-5 reach advantages in their divisions. And I had recently watched a rerun of the Edgar vs. Maynard fight & it didn't look to me like Edgar had a big reach advantage at all.

So I did a little research on many of the top fighters in Edgars division. Here are the results.

FIGHTER & REACH

Edgar 72"
Miller 71"
Roller 72"
Pettis 72"
Sotiropoulos 72"
Henderson 70"
Guillard 71"
Castillo 71"
Edwards 73"
Cerrone 73"
Dunham 70"
Maynard 70"
Guida 69"
Stout 70"
Palaszewski 70"
Pearson 69"

I think this is a fair representation of most of the good fighters in the UFC lightweight division & Edgar doesn't have a 4-5 inch reach advantage over any of them. But I didn't include Sean Sherk who has a 65" reach....making all these guys have at least 4" on him.

I'm sure if I reasearched every fighter in the division....there would probably be a couple of others that Edgar may have a big reach advantage on...but so would most of the other guys on the list.

I'm no MMA expert & like I said....I just checked out this division because it looked to me in the fight that I recently saw a rerun of between Maynard & Edgar that Maynard had the reach advantage...& I was wrong about that.

And I'll bet your probably right on all the other fighters you mentioned having a significant reach advantage over many or most of the other guys in their respective divisions. And I also agree with you that a big reach is usually a very good advantage to have. Unless you are Antonio Margarito (73 inch reach) vs. Manny Pacquiao (67 inch reach).

And by the way......as I'm sure the folks here know....the 1st round of that Edgar vs. Maynard fight was unreal....the fact that Edgar made it out of the round taking the beating that he did.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Dos Santos wouldn't last 2 rounds in the octagon with Overeem. 

Alistair Overeems MT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>JDS' boxing. I think even Overeems boxing is actually better than JDS' too. The way he slipped and countered Duffee was beautiful.

I think Overeem would quite easily cut off the cage from JDS and brutalise him up close with power punches, elbows and uberknees. 

I do have concerns about Overeem's chin, but I don't think it's enough of a factor to sway my outlook on the fight.

Overeem via KO round 2.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

I don't think there's a single HW on the planet who can beat Overeem in a standup war. Overeem's nightmare matchup in my opinion is a strong wrestler with knockout power on the feet so he has to think about the takedown and the big overhand punch all the time.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

I love the ufc HWS, but Overeem is to much of a monster to lose. I think most people remember overeem as a lhw however from that time he has changed. At hw he has walk through everybody. A man as big as lesnar with striking is hard to beat. His striking is good enough to beat JDS and Cain, unlike both fighters he has vicious leg kicks with power hands. Even if cain manages to take reem down, would he be able to keep him down?


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## "El Guapo" (Jun 25, 2010)

Overeem would crumble in the 2nd. JDS TKO.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> Well not really just JDS, but any top level HW striker in the UFC, i think the reem would get crushed. I just got done watching plenty overeem videos and this is what ive noticed : He has alot of power. Hes technical. And thats it, he doesnt have great footwork, his head movement is pretty good but he only uses when he sees the punch coming (as in hes not always moving his head. I believe head movement is continual, not situational). I can see jds completely outstriking reem with relative ease, just staying on the outside, using the jab, using his footwork, and hardly getting scratched. I think it would look alot like the carwin fight but not as bad of a beat down. You guys will probably rage at me for this but i dont think hes as good of a strike as acclaimed to be, or anywhere near. Hes very stiff but he does use kicks and knees its just hes not on the balls of his feet, hes on his heels. Which wouldve work a few years ago but i believe the power punching, stiff, HW strategy is almost out the window now. People like jds and cain are constantly moving and are alot harder to hit because of it. They also land more punches because of it. The war is on mmaforum. Top level UFC hw strikers > reem
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Since we're discussing striking, you do know that the guy is K1 winner? 'No-head-movement-guy that knocked out Badr Hari?


Lmao


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

attention said:


> But being a Brazillian hw champ is a far cry from being a K1 grand prix champ.


To be fair, he became the grand prix champ when it was at it's weakest. He'd never have won if all of the top guys participated.



Rusko said:


> Since we're discussing striking, you do know that the guy is K1 winner? 'No-head-movement-guy that knocked out Badr Hari?
> 
> 
> Lmao


Yea, that was already proven to be a fluke. Hari destroyed him in the rematch. You guys act like Overeem is some monster K-1 kickboxer when he's mediocre at best.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

I'm sure we'll see this fight at some point, but for now you just have to look at their competition. Reem intends to win this tournament then go to UFC and some people are thinking he is going to do it all with ease, I personally think he is a rung above all the other guys in the tournament, but it's a dangerous task and a LOT to do just to get to the stage where the 'top' HW's reside.

What I'm saying is, he could destroy this tournament and have not a scratch on him, and many people would still take Cain and JDS to beat him. I think JDS has a great chance purely because he won't be intimidated by Reem's K-1 accomplishments, and always believes in his hands. Reem has been known to wilt, and JDS can play a safe game in the 1st with jabs and movement, then really take it to him later if he gets frustrated.

Be interesting to see how Reem deals with JDS being quicker and lighter on his feet, patiently jabbing and setting things up, rather than dealing with a Duffy-type approach, which he is good at countering.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Im pretty sure JDS could KO Overeem in a pure striking match but if Overeem uses his size he will undoubtedly win.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

attention said:


> LOL, Mousasi fought a past prime Musashi... not the same thing as a full tourney of pro hw kickboxers.
> 
> Im not saying JDS is a push over in the striking department...but I dont think he would be as dominant vs Reem as people are making him out to be in this thread
> 
> EDIT: I think Reems fight vs Werdum will shed some light on his striking ability


Mousasi beat Kyotaro, the current K1 HW champ. He walked through Musashi but nobody is talking about that.


And I agree, we will see how Overeem vs. Werdum goes.



xeberus said:


> (JDS is a good striker and the better mixed martial artist, if it comes down to it we should bet on it  also don't forget we have a bet on kongo/barry  )



Who are you pulling for in that fight? I say Kongo via wrestlefuk but I don't know if he'll stop Barry.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

JDS would lose badly!!

The guy is just a Boxer.. Overeem is a complete K-1 Level Beast.

Is stronger a better Wrestler and better BJJ player. So he can take the fight whereever he wants it.

Thai Clinch probably.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> JDS would lose badly!!
> 
> The guy is just a Boxer.. Overeem is a complete K-1 Level Beast.
> 
> ...


I REALLY doubt reem would take this fight to the ground. He believes hes the baddest man alive standing so i see no reason why he would be scared. I just dont think he would be fast enough to utilize the clinch vs a guy like jds that is very slippery and always improving. I mean jds would be training with AS and machida for this fight, i cant see the reem getting ahold of him if he implements what he would train with those 2.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> I REALLY doubt reem would take this fight to the ground. He believes hes the baddest man alive standing so i see no reason why he would be scared. I just dont think he would be fast enough to utilize the clinch vs a guy like jds that is very slippery and always improving. I mean jds would be training with AS and machida for this fight, i cant see the reem getting ahold of him if he implements what he would train with those 2.


I am one of the few poeple on here who think that JDS's striking is highly overrated and that his defense really lacks. Overeem is the best striker we have in the HW devision. I just don't see JDS even being able to compete against him there not to mention win.

Overeem is better everywhere has much more experience too..

I truly believe that Cain is able to compete with Junior standing and most likely outstrike him or KO him.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> I am one of the few poeple on here who think that JDS's striking is highly overrated and that his defense really lacks. Overeem is the best striker we have in the HW devision. I just don't see JDS even being able to compete against him there not to mention win.
> 
> Overeem is better everywhere has much more experience too..
> 
> I truly believe that Cain is able to compete with Junior standing and most likely outstrike him or KO him.


everythings possible. I believe these 3 plus brock are the echelon of the HW division and each one has an interesting match up with each other. I dont think any of them have an easy matchup against each other despite cain/brocks last fight.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Gilbert Yvel is a skilled kickboxer to call him a wild brawler is nothing short of ludicrous.


Nah he's a wild brawler. The guy is 1-1 in kickboxing fights and I can't think of a single good striker he has ever beaten.. oh right he beat semmy when I was 11 years old. But he's fought a lot of decent strikers, and they all beat him. But thats not why he's a wild brawler, I mean its probably why he's lost to the people he has and has beaten so many people by ko/tko but its because he's reckless comes forward almost all the time swings wildly and gets hit a lot. He is a skilled kickboxer, im a skilled kickboxer, but compared to the kind of guys we're talking to he's a lot of notches down.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Overeem is putting strikers away with 16 oz gloves, JDS couldn't put a fat, tired BJJ specialist in Roy Nelson away with 4 oz gloves.. Just saying.


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## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> I REALLY doubt reem would take this fight to the ground. He believes hes the baddest man alive standing so i see no reason why he would be scared. I just dont think he would be fast enough to utilize the clinch vs a guy like jds that is very slippery and always improving. I mean jds would be training with AS and machida for this fight, i cant see the reem getting ahold of him if he implements what he would train with those 2.


Overeem has a really good ground game. ADCC euro trails winner, nasty guillotine, and good kimura. His well roundness is very underrated. Oh, and all he seems to do in the clinch is break peoples ribs and faces with knees.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

xeberus said:


> Sir! Nay!
> 
> To even mention Gilbert Yvel in the same sentence. Even separated by a "-" is to besmirch Remy Bonjasky's good name and fighting abilities. Yvel is a wild brawler who would be lucky and grateful to hand wash Bonjasky's sweaty nut guard.
> 
> ...


Remy is the most overrated striker to have success in K1, his record has more padding than Fedors and IMO people overvalue k1 striking when they try to relate it to MMA.

Overeem's striking is not poor but he's not as technical as JDS's.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

spaulding91 said:


> Overeem has a really good ground game. ADCC euro trails winner, nasty guillotine, and good kimura. His well roundness is very underrated. Oh, and all he seems to do in the clinch is break peoples ribs and faces with knees.


wasnt saying he doesnt.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

slapshot said:


> Remy is the most overrated striker to have success in K1, his record has more padding than Fedors and IMO people overvalue k1 striking when they try to relate it to MMA.
> 
> Overeem's striking is not poor *but he's not as technical as JDS's.*


lol made me :laugh: Sorry.

JDS is not even a complete Striker! Far from it actually..


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

slapshot said:


> Remy is the most overrated striker to have success in K1, his record has more padding than Fedors and IMO people overvalue k1 striking when they try to relate it to MMA.
> 
> Overeem's striking is not poor but he's not as technical as JDS's.


You'll see some high tech ass whooping tonight.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

spaulding91 said:


> Overeem has a really good ground game. ADCC euro trails winner, nasty guillotine, and good kimura. His well roundness is very underrated. Oh, and all he seems to do in the clinch is break peoples ribs and faces with knees.


He's great when he's on top but I dont think anyone wants to be on bottom. In this fight being on bottom means your going to take some bombs IMO.

I dont see either fighter being sub'd, that makes top position important.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

slapshot said:


> Remy is the most overrated striker to have success in K1, his record has more padding than Fedors and IMO *people overvalue k1 striking* when they try to relate it to MMA.
> 
> Overeem's striking is not poor but he's not as technical as JDS's.


This. 

3 minute rounds instead of 5.
Larger gloves.
Not being afraid of being taken down.

This leads to fighters throwing more power punches and being less afraid of getting hit. They stand and trade back and forth instead of trying to pick their opponents apart.

JDS would destroy Overeem with superior movement and striking not to mention a far better gas tank.

K1 is to MMA striking as BJJ is to MMA grappling. There are some similarities but you have to modify the way you use them in order to be effective.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

slapshot said:


> Remy is the most overrated striker to have success in K1, his record has more padding than Fedors and IMO people overvalue k1 striking when they try to relate it to MMA.


If you were a woman I'd slug you.




slapshot said:


> Overeem's striking is not poor but he's not as technical as JDS's.


I grinned


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> lol made me :laugh: Sorry.
> 
> JDS is not even a complete Striker! Far from it actually..


LOL right back at you, if you compare the striking JDS's hands are better, the rest is debatable I guess.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

slapshot said:


> LOL right back at you, if you compare the striking JDS's hands are better, the rest is debatable I guess.


JDS' hands may or may not be better but when you put a boxer against a kickboxer then a kickboxer wins 9/10.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Rauno said:


> JDS' hands may or may not be better but when you put a boxer against a kickboxer then a kickboxer wins 9/10.


There was a very publicized fight in the hay day of boxing that turned out must have been that 1 time, shrug.

he's not a boxer and reems not the second coming of crocop with his kicks either, this would be a close fight.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Rauno said:


> JDS' hands may or may not be better but when you put a boxer against a kickboxer then a kickboxer wins 9/10.


What Rauno said.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

OP, why would you use the Rogers fight to make an argument about Overeem's striking? He spends hardly any time on his feet attempting to strike. Once he tosses Rogers down like a rag doll he is content to keep it on the ground and GnP. Why not link some of his recent K-1 bouts if you wanna dissect his striking ability.

I am confident should JDS or Cain ever find themselves in a striking war with Overeem they will both crumble. Overeem's power and technique are far superior than both. JDS has some boxing prowess, I give him that, but I still think Overeem would stalk him with kicks and just work him over. Too much power, even though both are technical. 

Cain on the other, if we aren't talking strictly striking, poses a much bigger danger in my opinion. If Cain can get Overeem down it could be a different story. I honestly would see Cain getting a few takedowns in this fight but be unable to hold Overeem there.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

MikeHawk said:


> To be fair, he became the grand prix champ when it was at it's weakest. He'd never have won if all of the top guys participated.
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, that was already proven to be a fluke. Hari destroyed him in the rematch. You guys act like Overeem is some monster K-1 kickboxer when he's mediocre at best.


That is some revisionist history. Are you forgetting 93, 94, 2003, and 2004 those fields all ended up being weaker. In 2001 Mark Hunt basically lucked his way to a GP title and in 2009 Semmy essentially had to fight once since JLB and Remy just gave up like 15 seconds into those fights. Historically Overeem probably ranks sixth as far as GP winners go. After Hug died and Hoost and Aerts were past their prime K1 had some pretty down years talent wise until Semmy and Badr put it together. Todays Overeem would have been a top 5 kickboxer basically any time from 2001 to today.

It wasn't a fluke win Badr has to completely change how he normally fights to beat Overeem. How often do you see Badr fight composed like that? Badr would lose every time against Overeem if he fought the way he usually does and if they fight 10 times Overeem probably wins 3 to 5 times because Badr is a lunatic who can't always control himself. You are also talking about the most gifted kickboxer of the modern era losing to him doesn't make you mediocre.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

Ape City said:


> OP, why would you use the Rogers fight to make an argument about Overeem's striking? He spends hardly any time on his feet attempting to strike. Once he tosses Rogers down like a rag doll he is content to keep it on the ground and GnP. Why not link some of his recent K-1 bouts if you wanna dissect his striking ability.
> 
> I am confident should JDS or Cain ever find themselves in a striking war with Overeem they will both crumble. Overeem's power and technique are far superior than both. JDS has some boxing prowess, I give him that, but I still think Overeem would stalk him with kicks and just work him over. Too much power, even though both are technical.
> 
> Cain on the other, if we aren't talking strictly striking, poses a much bigger danger in my opinion. If Cain can get Overeem down it could be a different story. I honestly would see Cain getting a few takedowns in this fight but be unable to hold Overeem there.


\

Because rodgers is his most recent MMA fight. K-1 is not mma. Watch the fight, reems movement is the stalky without much footwork and that isnt always the best approach vs someone else with great stand up. stand still and get picked apart, simple as that.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> \
> 
> Because rodgers is his most recent MMA fight. K-1 is not mma. Watch the fight, reems movement is the stalky without much footwork and that isnt always the best approach vs someone else with great stand up. stand still and get picked apart, simple as that.


Overeem's striking is much more suited for MMA. He can actually use his Clinch here and pull full force in those fight ending knees. Duffee fight remember?


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> \
> 
> Because rodgers is his most recent MMA fight. K-1 is not mma. Watch the fight, reems movement is the stalky without much footwork and that isnt always the best approach vs someone else with great stand up. stand still and get picked apart, simple as that.


Duffee is his most recent MMA fight.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> Overeem's striking is much more suited for MMA. He can actually use his Clinch here and pull full force in those fight ending knees. Duffee fight remember?


yes i do remember. But knocking out a unproven fighter can only be impressive to a certain level.



osmium said:


> Duffee is his most recent MMA fight.


alright, i watched the video on youtube and thought it was a k-1 fight, the video quality was really bad so i was just focusing on them 2


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> yes i do remember. But knocking out a unproven fighter can only be impressive to a certain level.


I mentioned him only because of how Overeem ended this fight. In K-1 he can not put his hands around somebody like that.. it's all suited to limit almost every action of the Muay Thai fighter because of all the Japanese losing to them.

K-1 Overeem = B-

MMA Overeem = A


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

I don't think this fight would be one sided, but I am starting to wonder how Overeem is going to deal with being in a cage and not ring, against someone who has good footwork and the ability to move around and avoid the clinch while throwing technically sound punches.

I'm just watching some of Overeem's K-1 fights and that type of striking is sooooo much different than in MMA, and he's only really effective when in close. JDS seems tailor made to beat him standing up.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Overeem does tonight, but I think Werdum might put an end to the hype.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Saki is probably by far the most technical fighter in K-1 Hiro.

His kicks gave him trouble, JDS is just a bad defensive Boxer.



One kicks by the Reem and Saki almost falls down. 1.45

Saki = Future K-1 Champion!!


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> \
> 
> Because rodgers is his most recent MMA fight. K-1 is not mma. Watch the fight, reems movement is the stalky without much footwork and that isnt always the best approach vs someone else with great stand up. stand still and get picked apart, simple as that.


I did watch the fight when you posted it. Also seen it a few times before that since Overeem is one of my favorite fighters.

Anyways the fact is you decided to discuss striking, not mma. So my suggestion that you use K-1 to judge Overeem and not a fight in which he spent the majority of the time on the ground, and did the majority of damage on the ground, is perfectly legitimate. 

Another reason the Rogers - Overeem fight is a terrible fight to judge Overeem's stand-up is that Overeem knew he completely outclassed Rogers. Overeem was confident stalking him and usung minor head movement. Why would he waste energy when Rogers was just getting backed up anyways.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

After watching Werdum/Overeem. I think its fairly obvious that Overeem is undeserving of the hype. 

I adjust my opinion to: JDS via being a better fighter.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

JDS would kill the Overeem who fought tonight.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

After watching Reems performance, I will concur.

I was wrong (as per earlier in this thread)... Reem doesnt seem to know UFC rules mma very well ... no elbows at all!

JDS is much more well rounded than Reem... much more well rounded indeed


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Overeem will KO JDS in two. Unless of course, JDS pulls a Werdum.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

After watching reem tonight i sitll say he would kick JDS ass. Lets not forget he was worried about take downs and submission. When u have two strikers in there i would take reem everytime. However cain was reem is interesting...would cain beable to neutralize that power? reem threw werdum away like a rag doll several times during that fight.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

attention said:


> After watching Reems performance, I will concur.
> 
> I was wrong (as per earlier in this thread)... Reem doesnt seem to know UFC rules mma very well ... no elbows at all!
> 
> *JDS is much more well rounded than Reem... much more well rounded indeed*


What makes you think so?


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

marcthegame said:


> After watching reem tonight i sitll say he would kick JDS ass. Lets not forget he was worried about take downs and submission. When u have two strikers in there i would take reem everytime. However cain was reem is interesting...would cain beable to neutralize that power? reem threw werdum away like a rag doll several times during that fight.





Mckeever said:


> Overeem will KO JDS in two. Unless of course, JDS pulls a Werdum.


But thats the problem for Reem, this isnt K1.

Reem behaved like he was in K1 even though it was mma... he covered up, he waited to counter... do that with a fighter that has any wrestling skills like Cain or JDS and he will end up on his back.

Reem knew that Werdum had nothing, he was sitting back waiting to throw a big power punch to get the highlight KO... bad bad bad IMHO.

I was waiting to see some elbows... something that showed he had evolved... didnt see it...at least not in this (poor excuse of a ) fight.

Werdum looked sooo damn outta shape...it was pathetic.

I think JDS has displayed enough 'well-rounded-ness' to cause Reem to hesitate... If they were to have a pure k1 style fight, I would lean to Reem...but a mma bout, Im picking JDS.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

attention said:


> But thats the problem for Reem, this isnt K1.
> 
> Reem behaved like he was in K1 even though it was mma... he covered up, he waited to counter... do that with a fighter that has any wrestling skills like Cain or JDS and he will end up on his back.
> 
> ...


I don't see JDS going mma on reem, plus JDS is not wedum, Reem BBj is just as good or even better than JDS. Reem is a big boy for JDS to try to toss around.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Overeem will KO JDS in two. Unless of course, JDS pulls a Werdum.


This. Overeem will not be anywhere near as cautious about being taken down against JDS. They will most likely strike it out and Overeem will finish him. 

Overeems stance was incredibly defensive for all three rounds, he definitely wanted to avoid the ground as much s possible.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

Rauno said:


> What makes you think so?


I was surprised to see JDS go for takedowns in his last fight... IMHO, it means hes comfortable on the ground.

OTOH, Reem was completely unwilling to fight a tight conservative battle on the ground... mind you, I understand that its always a risk to play into your opponents strength... but even in the dying 30 seconds of each round, Reem didnt feel confident enough to be busy on the ground.
Heck, even GSP will shoot for a leg lock knowing that it might fail...but who cares, the round is about to end.

I know, Im reading ALOT into that last fight...but MAN was it disappointing... ugh!


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

attention said:


> But thats the problem for Reem, this isnt K1.
> 
> Reem behaved like he was in K1 even though it was mma... he covered up, he waited to counter... do that with a fighter that has any wrestling skills like Cain or JDS and he will end up on his back.
> 
> ...


I may not agree but I like your logic.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

marcthegame said:


> I don't see JDS going mma on reem, plus JDS is not wedum, Reem BBj is just as good or even better than JDS. Reem is a big boy for JDS to try to toss around.


But thats the thing...he seems to rely too much on his size... he seemed really gassed at the end of this 3 rounder.... the bulk of which he was walking around the cage 

Werdum's strikes were ugly and telegraphed... the knees Werdum would throw you could see coming a mile away... yet they landed! ineffective... but landed nonetheless.
I wasnt a stellar performance for either guy... the matchup was ugly... but geeze... I think Werdum made them BOTH look really bad in the end.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

attention said:


> But thats the thing...he seems to rely too much on his size... he seemed really gassed at the end of this 3 rounder.... the bulk of which he was walking around the cage
> 
> Werdum's strikes were ugly and telegraphed... the knees Werdum would throw you could see coming a mile away... yet they landed! ineffective... but landed nonetheless.
> I wasnt a stellar performance for either guy... the matchup was ugly... but geeze... I think Werdum made them BOTH look really bad in the end.


I'm going to give reem the benefit of the doubt, i think it was cage rust as he has not been in there for just over a year. His size has been smashing people so i think this just would make him see where he needs improvement. This was the first fight in almost five years where it went past 10 mins for him.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

attention said:


> But thats the problem for Reem, this isnt K1.
> 
> Reem behaved like he was in K1 even though it was mma... he covered up, he waited to counter... do that with a fighter that has any wrestling skills like Cain or JDS and he will end up on his back.
> 
> ...


huge lol @ jds being "well rounded". Reem has displayed much more well roundidness in his career. And lol @ jds being some sort of outstanding wrestler because he took Shane Carwin (AKA the white Brett Rogers, AKA Butterbean) down a couple of times.

What makes you think Alistair won't attempt a few take downs on JDS to catch him off guard?

The most likely scenario for that fight is that both fighter's stand and trade and strike for 85 percent of the fight and I promise you if that happens, JDS will get knocked out.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> huge lol @ jds being "well rounded". Reem has displayed much more well roundidness in his career. And lol @ jds being some sort of outstanding wrestler because he took Shane Carwin (AKA the white Brett Rogers, AKA Butterbean) down a couple of times.
> 
> What makes you think Alistair won't attempt a few take downs on JDS to catch him off guard?
> 
> The most likely scenario for that fight is that both fighter's stand and trade and strike for 85 percent of the fight and I promise you if that happens, JDS will get knocked out.


HEH, note that I stated 
"JDS has displayed *enough *'well-rounded-ness' "

I didnt say he was a completely well rounded mma fighter... I said that he displayed 'enuf' to get Reem to hesitate.

and I shall LOL @ Reem attempting a takedown 
If that happens...OMG, I better check my lottery tickets 

But I agree with you... odds are the bulk of the fight would be stand up... but after seeing Reem's performance tonight, Im not picking one of my fav fighters.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

attention said:


> HEH, note that I stated
> "JDS has displayed *enough *'well-rounded-ness' "
> 
> I didnt say he was a completely well rounded mma fighter... I said that he displayed 'enuf' to get Reem to hesitate.
> ...


Why would you lol @ Reem attempting a take down when he has more submission wins on the ground than he does KO's in MMA?

Three fights ago against Brett Rogers he tossed him to the ground like a rag doll and brutalised him with ground and pound.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Lol i'm just gonna ignore all logic and say reem is the best hw in the world until he loses.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> Why would you lol @ Reem attempting a take down when he has more submission wins on the ground than he does KO's in MMA?
> 
> Three fights ago against Brett Rogers he tossed him to the ground like a rag doll and brutalised him with ground and pound.


Heh... attempting a takedown... ie. shooting in 
thats one thing... for that I would LOL.

He tossed Rogers to the ground and molested him... yeah, I dont call that 'an attempt at a takedown'... I call it mma ****.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I would feel confident after tonight calling JDS to KO Overeem. Overeem is more of a power puncher not Shane Carwin but somewhere between Carwin and JDS. Thing is JDS showed against Carwin he has one hell of a chin to boot.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Toxic said:


> I would feel confident after tonight calling JDS to KO Overeem. Overeem is more of a power puncher not Shane Carwin but somewhere between Carwin and JDS. Thing is JDS showed against Carwin he has one hell of a chin to boot.


What is ur take on Barnett?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

marcthegame said:


> What is ur take on Barnett?


Its really hard to take much from that fight considering how awful Rogers looked.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Its really hard to take much from that fight considering how awful Rogers looked.


like overall from everything u have seen from Barnett, if he a top level guy. This is the first fight i have seen of him live. I knew he was good but i figure a lot more poster would have a better idea of how good he really is.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

I don't understand why Overeem was just covering up and letting Werdum land knees? Why wasn't he actively striking? It's not like Werdum's takedowns were anything to worry about, Reem was throwing the guy down like he was 155 pounds.

I don't see how he can beat JDS after that performance.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Overeem will KO JDS in two. Unless of course, JDS pulls a Werdum.


So if JDS controls the pace, applies constant pressure, makes Overeem cover up, and shoots for a takedown he'll win? Funny how that's exactly what he's done to every single opponent he's fought recently...:sarcastic12:



Hiro said:


> I don't understand why Overeem was just covering up and letting Werdum land knees? Why wasn't he actively striking? It's not like Werdum's takedowns were anything to worry about, Reem was throwing the guy down like he was 155 pounds.
> 
> *I don't see how he can beat JDS after that performance*.


I concur. I thought Overeem would take this on pure tenacity. But against Werdum he showed he'd rather cover up and wait for the magic death punch opening, rather than using better stand up (which he has) to set up the finisher. 

The Overeem who fought Werdum has nothing for JDS. Ironically, by winning, Overeem derailed his own hype machine...


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

its funny how in 1 night 90% of the hate stops. Rofl. 

Reem looked terrrrrible. So terrible. Jds would not get knocked out by this guerilla, or even close to it. 2 rounds of picking reem apart, tko in the 3rd when reem gases. Reem shouldnt be above rank 4 on the rankings. I dont see him with the gas tank to be cain, brock, or jds. I mean he has a chance against brock but brock would be his hardest fight by far and the most interesting. Brock would be the first guy reem couldnt just toss around


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Overeem by being the far more technical striker.

How can anybody take the Werdum fight as an indication on his striking?

All Overeem did was trying to put him away for the 2 sec Werdum stood up. Just one goal KO!!


Against a striker we will see him strike. Like against Bigfoot for example..


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> Overeem by being the far more technical striker.
> 
> How can anybody take the Werdum fight as an indication on his striking?
> 
> ...


Because we dont judge fighters off of fantasy? Its not like we've never seen him strike before and the fact is he's never been as good as his fans wish he was. 

Asinine statement after watching how technical he's not, thats not saying he has no skill but his striking is overrated and if he fought like he did last night against JDS or even Cain they would have knocked him out in the first. He was Loosing that fight standing BTW the only reason I think thay gave Overeem the win was was the mind numblingly stupid strategy Werdum employed.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

slapshot said:


> Because we dont judge fighters off of fantasy? Its not like we've never seen him strike before and the fact is he's never been as good as his fans wish he was.
> 
> Asinine statement after watching how technical he's not, thats not saying he has no skill but his striking is overrated and if he fought like he did last night against JDS or even Cain they would have knocked him out in the first. He was Loosing that fight standing BTW the only reason I think thay gave Overeem the win was was the mind numblingly stupid strategy Werdum employed.


I know he was losing standing, but only because he went for the Knock Out blow and knee.

We will see how he approches his MMA strking in the future. If poeple want to engange with him standing in an MMA bout, it won't look much different then the brutal Duffee fight.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> I know he was losing standing, but only because he went for the Knock Out blow and knee.
> 
> We will see how he approches his MMA strking in the future. If poeple want to engange with him standing in an MMA bout, it won't look much different then the brutal Duffee fight.


Bobby, we're usually on the same side of the coin, but in this one we're exact opposites. 

Overeem has always looked the same standing, in MMA, and in K-1. He fights the same way. He ALWAYS gets out pointed by his opponents. He's just got insane power so when he has landed, he's finished it with that one punch/knee/kick or with a short flurry afterwards. 

The thing is, he kneed, and punched Werdum on the chin and he didn't get the KO, not even close. Every time he hit Werdum, it was used as a takedown attempt, or Werdum shook it off. It looked to me like Overeem didn't know what to do when he couldn't put Werdum away. That's probably because he's used to fighting opponent's below his skill level in MMA. 

And he was gassed, bad. He sounded like an asthmatic basement dweller in the post fight interview in a slow paced fight. It was absolutely rediculous. 

Against someone who isn't a comparative can, he looked remarkably bad. The K-1 GP champion was outstruck by the JJ specialist. What does that say about his skills?


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Bobby, we're usually on the same side of the coin, but in this one we're exact opposites.
> 
> Overeem has always looked the same standing, in MMA, and in K-1. He fights the same way. He ALWAYS gets out pointed by his opponents. He's just got insane power so when he has landed, he's finished it with that one punch/knee/kick or with a short flurry afterwards.
> 
> ...


Oh I agree with you on most parts Squirrel. 

Especially on his performance. It was awful!!!


But people highly underestimate Werdum in the standup. The guy knows what he's doing there.

The thing with Overeem is, he normally blocks many shots and then comes back like you said. But against Werdum he had to watch the Takedown all the time insetad of concentrating on the shots. 

I also always said, that a fight with him against Cain would be really close and I couldn't call that one. With this gas tank Cain will overpower him in the CC Rounds.

But against a striker like JDS or any other HW out there.. Reem is a huge favourite. Against JDS he can play his game and strike. Yes, he is a Powerpuncher, but a damn technical one and JDS is nothing but a bad defensive Boxer who also got caught several times by BJJ guy Nelson.

The Reem couldn't even use his lethal kicks in this fight either Squirrel. Imagine he starts covering up and puts a Muay Thai clinic on JDS!!


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Oh I agree with you on most parts Squirrel.
> 
> Especially on his performance. It was awful!!!
> 
> ...


Cain would absolutely dominate Overeem. Cain would use overwhelming pressure, has a great chin, and has the wrestling out easily outgrapple Overeem. Overeem would get put on his back and wilt. 

JDS has far superior takedowns to Werdum. He's shown that against Nelson and Carwin. The unpredicatability of his stand up (body, head, angles, rotational/straight) combined with his developing wrestling abilities and his JJ makes him a far more complete and dangerous opponent than Werdum. 

Nelson a BJJ guy? More than half of his wins are KOs (8/15). He hasn't finished with a submission since 2006. Nor can I remember him threatening with one since he started KOing people. Having a black belt doesn't make someone a JJ Guy.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Nelson is a JJ fighter, believe that.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

slapshot said:


> Nelson is a JJ fighter, believe that.


he is if he can get the fight to the ground. And he hasnt been able to do that against guys in the ufc. he has good top control because of his bjj (see him on TUF) but his td's arent good enough to make his bjj effective in the ufc.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> he is if he can get the fight to the ground. And he hasnt been able to do that against guys in the ufc. he has good top control because of his bjj (see him on TUF) but his td's arent good enough to make his bjj effective in the ufc.


Typical BJJ guy isn't he?


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## astrallite (Mar 14, 2010)

If JDS has the chin, he could outpoint Overeem. The Demo Man's strategy is to soak up shots and then counter with a big overhand shot. If you are going to strike with Overeem you have to have an epic Fedor-like chin.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

JDS would have murdered Reem last night, I expected a lot more from The Demolition Man.

He completely nullified Werdum's gameplan and kept the fight in his element, yet managed to get beaten in his own element. Yes Reem did more damage, but at the end of the day, he took the most shots and didn't finish the fight = outstruck.

Reem showed great TDD and awesome strength, but was just looking for the big one-shot KO while eating combinations to the face, JDS would have made him look silly.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

SM33 said:


> JDS would have murdered Reem last night, I expected a lot more from The Demolition Man.
> 
> He completely nullified Werdum's gameplan and kept the fight in his element, yet managed to get beaten in his own element. Yes Reem did more damage, but at the end of the day, he took the most shots and didn't finish the fight = outstruck.
> 
> Reem showed great TDD and awesome strength, but was just looking for the big one-shot KO while eating combinations to the face, JDS would have made him look silly.


Reems tdd wasnt on display last night. I dont see anyone could honestly believe that. Werdums non existant TD game was exposed and his baiting tactic wasnt effective. Reem will easily get taken down by a good wrestler, i wouldnt be surprised to see barnet win this whole thing.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> Reems tdd wasnt on display last night. I dont see anyone could honestly believe that. Werdums non existant TD game was exposed and his baiting tactic wasnt effective. Reem will easily get taken down by a good wrestler, i wouldnt be surprised to see barnet win this whole thing.


He had some quick sprawls, they would probably be defeated by a good wrestler but in the context of just that fight, his ability to keep it standing was one of the better things on display, even though Werdum wasn't attempting takedowns so much as asking Reem to fall to the ground for him.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

SM33 said:


> He had some quick sprawls, they would probably be defeated by a good wrestler but in the context of just that fight, his ability to keep it standing was one of the better things on display, even though Werdum wasn't attempting takedowns so much as asking Reem to fall to the ground for him.


its easy to sprawl when your opponent doesnt set it up at all and completely telegraphs it. At one point werdum actually shot in, got thrown off, then tried again. It was pitiful.


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