# What would have happened if JBJ killed Machida?



## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

just curious... do they sign some sort of consent form for this? would the judge get in more trouble than the fighter? what kind of criminal charges would be filed?


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Kill him how? Getting choked unconscious isn't as bad as it seems.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Jon Jones would probably be thrown in jail for manslaughter.
Machida would have to be buried.
I would probably cry and then off myself to join him.
The UFC would probably face some serious criticism.
FOX would probably drop it, it'd probably be banned in numerous states and it'd probably be in serious jeopardy of dying, it just depends on how well they could argue the fact Machida had the option to tap.

The fall out wouldn't be good though, that's the only thing for sure.


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

i realize it wasn't even close, but assuming there were complications along with maybe the ref letting jones hold the choke a bit longer. if somehow they weren't able to revive or wake him up, i have a hard time believing jones would actually go to jail for this... 

what happens when people die in boxing? i know it has happened before.

i feel like more blame would/should go to the refs and whoever appointed that ref rather than the UFC itself.. but i think if the athletic commission got sued it would be worse for the UFC than if the UFC got sued...


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

dsmjrv said:


> i realize it wasn't even close, but assuming there were complications along with maybe the ref letting jones hold the choke a bit longer. if somehow they weren't able to revive or wake him up, i have a hard time believing jones would actually go to jail for this...
> 
> what happens when people die in boxing? i know it has happened before.
> 
> i feel like more blame would/should go to the refs and whoever appointed that ref rather than the UFC itself.. but i think if the athletic commission got sued it would be worse for the UFC than if the UFC got sued...


Nothing happens unless genuine neglect is determined. Like if the fighter were to intentionally throw blows to the spine, neck, and he actually killed the other guy. He would probably be charged with involuntary manslaughter and even then I'm sure he could get out of it.

People really only die when they have hematomas they don't know about and even then it's usually a couple days after the fight.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Be a Pall-Bearer... make some fans.


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## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

> make some fans.


 :laugh:


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Some of you guys are out of your mind. They both signed up for an athletic competition and nothing short of a shank or attack after the bell influencing his death would be cause for arrest.

Why are so many people armed and ready to point the finger if something bad happens? Google boxing deaths if you are wanting someone in jail for manslaughter.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

That choke wasn't held that long compared to other late stoppages. The worst that comes to mind is Davis vs Diaz. Lawlor vs Weidman was pretty bad too if I remember right.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

AlphaDawg said:


> That choke wasn't held that long compared to other late stoppages. The worst that comes to mind is Davis vs Diaz. Lawlor vs Weidman was pretty bad too if I remember right.


Lawlor/Weidman was terrible, Weidman tried to tell the ref Lawlor was out and everything and Dana took that ref to task at the post fight press conference.

The thing that made Jones/Machida so bad was Machida literally face planted into the canvas while he was unconcious. As soon as Big John saw the arm go down he stopped it and Jones just let him drop.


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Machida would have to be buried.


Actually I'd go with cremated, according to how Japanese do it, Machida may be Brazilian, but his heritage is Japanese (even his full first + last name are, only with a "typo" which was done for pronunciation as in "Lyoto" instead of "Ryoto")


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## Black_S15 (Jul 14, 2010)

we are talking about the fighter holding the submission or the refs possibly being in the wrong.. on the flip side has anyone ever thought that maybe the fighter not tapping should be diciplined ?? not saying i agree with this but guys like Big Nog and Machida are really stupid when they refuse to tap due to pride


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## systemdnb (Dec 7, 2008)

MikeHawk said:


> Kill him how? Getting choked unconscious isn't as bad as it seems.


Maybe not by a pro but some 24 year old just died from his 14 yr old cousin putting him in a rear naked choke to long. It was pretty easy for him to stop breathing.

Edit: Let someone get a broke limb. Chokes are WAY different.


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## DanTheJu (Mar 3, 2007)

It would take 3-4 minutes of cutting the blood off to the brain for it to kill somebody. Most people go unconscious mere seconds after a choke is tight.

As long as the HYPOTHETICAL death happened in the cage during the fight, and with no ill will from the opponent, there would be nothing to charge anybody with. 



systemdnb said:


> Maybe not by a pro but some 24 year old just died from his 14 yr old cousin putting him in a rear naked choke to long. It was pretty easy for him to stop breathing.


This is a case of an idiotic teen making a tragic mistake while being hyped up after watching wrestlemainia. 

Reading the police report, it does not sound like the used a rear naked choke, but a poorly preformed rear choke (fake wrestling move), he most likely crushed the victims wind pipe, not something a rear naked choke would do, as it is not a wind choke, its a blood choke.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

There's a lot of Sherdog-type 'What if...?' threads around here lately and they serve absolutely no purpose to the UFC section, take it to General Discussion or whatever.


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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

SM33 said:


> There's a lot of Sherdog-type 'What if...?' threads around here lately and they serve absolutely no purpose to the UFC section, take it to General Discussion or whatever.


^^^

This is an unrealistic question tbh.


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

The only possible way there could be any legal repercussion for a fighter would be if he held a choke too long, and on top of that you would have to prove he knowingly held it too long, ie, that Babalu Sobral fight that got him kicked out of the UFC.

If the opponent there had died, Sobral might have faced some kind of charge, but there is no way otherwise. Any sport involving violence of any kind, or even just a high level sport, assumes a specific kind of legal risk when you participate.


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## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

SM33 said:


> There's a lot of Sherdog-type 'What if...?' threads around here lately and they serve absolutely no purpose to the UFC section, take it to General Discussion or whatever.


Yeah I agree in a sense. I think that this thread could of been titled more thoughtfully though. Maybe 'How would a death in the UFC affect the sport?' would be a more suitable title.

On the flip side, I wouldn't want this place to become a ghost town so I wouldn't want people to stop posting threads if they have an idea or thought that doesn't totally fit into someone elses ideal.


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## rebonecrusher (Nov 21, 2011)

I'm sure certain people would put the sport under question but really it wouldn't mean shit. People die in others sports like boxing, skiing, nascar etc. so theres no reason why if someone dies in MMA that it should be put under serious scrutiny.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

SM33 said:


> There's a lot of Sherdog-type 'What if...?' threads around here lately and they serve absolutely no purpose to the UFC section, take it to General Discussion or whatever.





Tyson Fury said:


> Yeah I agree in a sense. I think that this thread could of been titled more thoughtfully though. Maybe 'How would a death in the UFC affect the sport?' would be a more suitable title.


Definitely agree. I've moved these 'what if' threads to General MMA for now. I'm all for hypothetical debates but this and the 'What if Silva/Sonnen is a flash KO' thread are a bit...yeah.

A 'How would a death in the UFC affect the sport?' thread would/could be a great discussion actually.


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## systemdnb (Dec 7, 2008)

DanTheJu said:


> It would take 3-4 minutes of cutting the blood off to the brain for it to kill somebody. Most people go unconscious mere seconds after a choke is tight.
> 
> As long as the HYPOTHETICAL death happened in the cage during the fight, and with no ill will from the opponent, there would be nothing to charge anybody with.
> 
> ...


Say what you want. I was just responding to "a choke isn't as dangerous as it seems." Why have refs then? F*** it right?


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

I don't want to talk about Machida vs Jones inparticular, but about deaths in MMA.

I tell my friends that there could be a death ANY night in the UFC. 

Several people have died already as direct results of MMA, and there is no imaginary safety net that leads me to believe the UFC won't have to deal with that type of situation at some point.

I'd hate to see it happen, but I wouldn't be that surprised to see a guy like George Roop, or any other Joe Shmo 6'3" 145er shut off permanently one of these nights. 


The bar is only getting higher these days when it comes to skill level in the UFC. One mismatch, one headkick, one late stoppage, and someone can DIE. 

If you think it will NEVER happen, you're much more optimistic than me. With the number of fights we get to see these days, barring a miracle it's going to happen sooner or later.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

dsmjrv said:


> i realize it wasn't even close, but assuming there were complications along with maybe the ref letting *jones hold the choke a bit longer.* if somehow they weren't able to revive or wake him up, i have a hard time believing jones would actually go to jail for this...
> 
> what happens when people die in boxing? i know it has happened before.
> 
> i feel like more blame would/should go to the refs and whoever appointed that ref rather than the UFC itself.. but i think if the athletic commission got sued it would be worse for the UFC than if the UFC got sued...


It would have had to have been MUCH longer, the brain needs to go several minutes without oxygen before damage is done. So in theory the round would have ended before Machida would have been in serious danger. Now had Jones just held the choke after that then I think things would be a little different.


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## DanTheJu (Mar 3, 2007)

systemdnb said:


> Say what you want. I was just responding to "a choke isn't as dangerous as it seems." Why have refs then? F*** it right?


A blood choke is not that dangerous at all. When done right, the only danger is if the choker holds it for 3+ minutes...

So why have refs? I am not going to waste time with this one!


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Soojooko said:


> Be a Pall-Bearer... make some fans.


I laughed so hard at this IRL :laugh:

+rep coming as soon as I get home :thumb02:


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