# Jon Jones wants no part of renewed Lyoto Machida with a source!



## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

> UFC light heavyweight champion Jon Jones told ESPN.com on Friday that he does not want to have a rematch with Lyoto Machida.
> 
> Jones is scheduled to make the fourth defense of his title on Sept. 1 against Dan Henderson at UFC 151 in Las Vegas. He is favored to win the fight against Henderson.
> 
> ...


http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/8...jon-jones-does-not-want-rematch-lyoto-machida

I like you and all Jon but let's not turn into Anderson now. I think everyone wants to see you fight Lyoto a hell of a lot more than they want to see you fight Shogun or Rampage again.


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## endersshadow (Mar 10, 2010)

This may be a good thing. Perhaps Jones will make so little money at LHW, he'll be forced to move to heavy weight - where the odds are more even and his purse will be more happy.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Seriously...Wtf....first the "i won't fight Anderson because I would lose money from sponsors if I lost" and now this. No matter how much I try to like this guy he keeps saying things like this.

Also pretty much all of Jones PPV buyrates have been around the 450-500 range. Only rashad was more.

Sent from my Desire HD using VerticalSports.Com App


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

problem is that main events alone dont draw in huge ppv numbers.. i buy like 3 or 4 ppv a year and look for an awesome main card more so than just a hyped main event.. most of my friends that come watch dont even know but 10 fighters in the ufc total, so when i buy an event i want them to see several good and exciting fights and not just one fight that means a lot to true MMA fans and nothing to a casual viewer..


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

.........Seriously? You are considering turning down Lyoto's rematch? The only guy who remotely challenged you so far. 

Uncle Dana won't like that.


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## BigPont (Nov 19, 2007)

MRBRESK said:


> .........Seriously? You are considering turning down Lyoto's rematch? The only guy who remotely challenged you so far.
> 
> Uncle Dana won't like that.


I wouldn't call getting choked unconscious putting up a challenge. I don't want to see a rematch either, but I don't get paid millions to fight. I like Jones, but sometimes he talks too much.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

BigPont said:


> I wouldn't call getting choked unconscious putting up a challenge. I don't want to see a rematch either, but I don't get paid millions to fight. I like Jones, but sometimes he talks too much.


Oh so you didn't watch the first round?


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## BigPont (Nov 19, 2007)

MRBRESK said:


> Oh so you didn't watch the first round?


So surviving one round is putting up a challenge? I still had Jones winning the round just like two out of the three judges.


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## Crester (Apr 5, 2009)

Sounds like we finally found someone who Bones Jones is worried about in the LHW division. lol. Machida was the only person to really challenge JBJ and it looks like he knows that!


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## rul3z (Jun 27, 2010)

BigPont said:


> I wouldn't call getting choked unconscious putting up a challenge. I don't want to see a rematch either, but I don't get paid millions to fight. I like Jones, but sometimes he talks too much.


Please check the fight again. If it wasn't for Loyoto going into Jones, plus the height diff. ? Jones wouldn't of submitted Loyoto like that.

I really wish to see the rematch happen. He is truly a HUGE threat to Jones, and lots will buy this card because of THAT.


*[email protected]* he did not just survive that round (as you say) he won it, and he's the only fighter to EVER WIN A ROUND AGAINST JONES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## RWCNT (Dec 16, 2010)

MRBRESK said:


> Oh so you didn't watch the first round?


Word - and by the same logic -

SONNEN VS SILVA III - Make it happen, Dana! :thumb02:

Just kidding.

I sort of appreciate how honest Jones is being while simultaneously being annoyed at what a shameless money-grubber he's being.

"I won't make money on it" - I bet Jon made more money from the Lyoto fight than the vast majority of his fans make in a few years of punching the clock in a regular job.


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## StandThemUp (May 30, 2008)

MRBRESK said:


> Oh so you didn't watch the first round?


I watched the first round. Machida did win it, but it was hardly some kind of one sided extremely dominant round that left people nervous or even remotely concerned. It just looked like Bones spent the round figuring out Machida's timing and awkwardness. Which he did, and then came out in the second round and dropped Machida like a sack of potatos.

So while LM may have given Jones his biggest challenge to date, that's all relative. It may have been the biggest he has had compared to how completely unchallenged he has been. That doesn't mean it was much of a challenge. 

That being said. If LM doesn't fight this guy, who is the guy that should? He has already walked through everyone else.

Personally, I think all of this talk about Jones facing Machida is what is going to lead to Henderson beating him. Everyone is treating the Hendo fight as a foregone conclusion. Anytime you do that in sports, it always comes up and bites you.
Does anyone remember the 18-1 New England Patriots?


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## BigPont (Nov 19, 2007)

rul3z said:


> Please check the fight again. If it wasn't for Loyoto going into Jones, plus the height diff. ? Jones wouldn't of submitted Loyoto like that.
> 
> I really wish to see the rematch happen. He is truly a HUGE threat to Jones, and lots will buy this card because of THAT.
> 
> ...


You're giving Machida too much credit. It had nothing to do with what HE did. Jones rocked him then put him to sleep. And just because one judge gave him the round and Joe Rogan repeated it a few times isn't going to trick my eyes from what I've already seen. Jones won the round and the fight. It's kinda sad that so many people are putting so much stock into what happened in one round. I guess it attests to Jones' dominance.


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## boatoar (May 14, 2010)

I would like to see the rematch. But a lot of us "hardcores" would, and don't represent the general populace in the slightest. My feeling is if he beats Hendo he may push for a move to Heavyweight where Lyoto will be left fighting someone (winner of shogun/gustaf) to take over the LHW crown. 

I'd still like a gustaf/jones battle before he moves up, but am uncertain what will happen. 

For now, I'd be happy to watch JBJ Dragon 2, just to see if anything changes. I don't expect it too, but the 'what if' and being a pretty big LM fan makes me want it.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Tough shit, he's the champion and he fights whoever earns a shot or whomever the UFC wants him to fight.

Pathetic on Jones part.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

It clearly paints a vivid picture of his character. He's highly ambitious, self centered, and calculating. 

He went into GJ's camp playing the position game. Plant the seed, move up the ladder, and purge the competition (friend or foe) along the way to achieve his end goal. 

Now I don't even like Rashad, but damn he got the short end of the stick. Lost his friends, trainer, broke up with his fiance, and moved to Florida with nothing. Talk about a spiritual journey. 

Don't get me wrong I deal with people like him in business all the time. A formidable adversary, but certainly not one I'd call a friend nor respect as an individual. I don't blame em. At least he's up front. It's obvious he wants MONEY...and the perks and fame that goes along with it.

Those who consider yourselves fans. Somewhere down the line you might meet someone with his characteristics and have a change of heart. There's no doubting he's an extremely talented fighter, but classic narcissist. He's no Michael Jordan that's for sure. He inspires and involves his team mates. Jon fights for himself and that's it figuratively and literally. It might be tough to digest, but I'm laying out facts that he's stating himself. 

"You won't catch me with a dui." 

"Hendo is a one trick pony."

"My job is to be prepared to face the best in the world. I'd rather not deal with Anderson, but if I have to fight him, I will focus on my confidence and on my technique." - He wants this fight deep down inside for his ego really.

"I spoke with Dana White about making a heavyweight fight in 2012 but he said he didn't consider it a good idea right now. But after beating *Dan Henderson,* Rashad Evans and maybe Alexander Gustafsson* in 2012, I don't see what to do in this division, not wanting to disrespect anybody."
- he's already assumed it. No champions ever assume they'll beat anyone that far in advance. 

“We fought each other in practice. A finish has been possible several times and it has always been me finishing him. I never did it out of respect that he was the elder of the school. It’s against protocol in a way. Some people would do it but I believe in tradition. He has a lot to study. I have a lot to study, but I get to study more in-depth. He gets to study and gets a headache.” - breaking the gym code at GJ camp talking about him vs Rashad

With this type of ego he sets in motion a lot of negative energy that will eventually rebound back. I think if he just kept quiet and obliterated his opponents Fedor style then all would be forgotten. But the shiet that he spews is uneasy on the ears.*


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

rul3z said:


> *[email protected]* he did not just survive that round (as you say) he won it, and he's the only fighter to EVER WIN A ROUND AGAINST JONES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



LHW Championship bout: Jon Jones (c) vs. Rashad Evans

Jones defeated Evans via unanimous decision (*49-46, 49-46, *50-45) to retain the UFC Light Heavyweight Championship. 

LHW bout: Jon Jones vs Stephan Bonnar

Jones defeated Bonnar by unanimous decision *(29-28, 29-28, 30-27).*

Yes he's the only guy aside from those other two guys.



M.C said:


> Tough shit, he's the champion and he fights whoever earns a shot or whomever the UFC wants him to fight.
> 
> Pathetic on Jones part.


Really Lyoto Machida and his one win earns him a title shot. The champion already gave him a shot after one win and it's pathetic that he doesn't do it again? If this was Brock Lesnar everyone would be up in arms...actually I believe they were up in arms but Machida it's different? Look I like Lyoto Machida his last few fights have been amazing but I think he should have to win one or two more fights before he challenges for the title.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

StandThemUp said:


> I watched the first round. Machida did win it, but it was hardly some kind of one sided extremely dominant round that left people nervous or even remotely concerned. It just looked like Bones spent the round figuring out Machida's timing and awkwardness. Which he did, and then came out in the second round and dropped Machida like a sack of potatos.


I didn't say it was an extremely one sided dominant round for Machida. I simply said he's the only fighter to remotely challenge Bones so far. Which is true, losing a round = a remote challenge IMO.



BigPont said:


> So surviving one round is putting up a challenge? I still had Jones winning the round just like two out of the three judges.


Surviving one round isn't putting up a challenge, winning the round is. My opinion doesn't always align with the judges on this one, but I go with logic and they seem to fall off that path occasionally. 

Lyoto clearly is a hard guy for Bones to stand with, even with the reach advantage. It seems that if Lyoto adjusts his gameplan for the second fight then he would have a better chance at winning more than one round this time. If he can keep Bones off his neck for 5 rounds then he probably wins the rematch.


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## HaVoK (Dec 31, 2006)

Translation: My new sponsor wont get as many views.

I don't think I am liking the direction this could end up heading.

I rarely favorite a fighter or wish one to lose, I just like watching exciting fights. But, I am almost starting to wish one of those H-Bombs lands on Jones's chin. Put some things into perspective if you will. But, I hate to wish ill will on someone for being successful and living a good life.

Conflicted...


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

John8204 said:


> LHW Championship bout: Jon Jones (c) vs. Rashad Evans
> 
> Jones defeated Evans via unanimous decision (*49-46, 49-46, *50-45) to retain the UFC Light Heavyweight Championship.
> 
> ...


Fans can complain all they want, the champion doesn't get the right to. He fights whoever the UFC tells him to fight, and be glad they are offering him it.

It has been decided that Machida gets the winner of Jones vs. Hendo, Jones need to accept that and not cry about pay and how risky it is fighting Machida.

Machida is next, tough shit for Jones, he will have to deal with it.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Do you guys seriously believe Jones is worried or scared of Machida because of these comments???

Your kidding me right???

Machida is likely the next challenger to Jones belt if Jones gets passed Henderson. This is a good way for Jones to secure a bigger salary when he rematches Machida. Its just smart business on his part. Jon Jones is a company man and thats what he wants to be (He publicly stated so). He wont turn down a fight that Dana or the Fertitas ask him to take. He will just negotiate a bigger bonus before he accepts the fight.


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## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

M.C said:


> Tough shit, he's the champion and he fights whoever earns a shot or whomever the UFC wants him to fight.
> 
> Pathetic on Jones part.


I agree. How the hell can the champion sit there and say what he's saying.

How would he have felt if Shogun had said, "Ahhh, Jones is too high of a risk, I don't think I can accept that fight."

I have never been a fan of Jones, but before I was indifferent to him, now I'm starting to actually not like the dude. BS comments, but hopefully Dan Ko's his ass so we can see Lyoto fight a true Champ who doesn't turn down fights for sponsorship deals, ppv buy's and all the lame excuses Jones is conjuring up.

EDIT:
SideWays222 I'm positive Jones is saying this to get some heat so he can possibly generate more positive and negative attention which translates into more money at the end of the day. I also don't think he's scared of Lyoto, but IF he is in fact serious, I'd be very very disappointed in him as a champ.


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## WarCraved (Jul 9, 2012)

This is what happens when you hype up a young, and talented fighter at a very, VERY early point in his career. Sure, he's in P4P talks, but he can't pick his fights. Only Silva can do that.


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## Ludinator (Mar 15, 2012)

People talk like Machida destroyed Jones, it was 1 close round . Jones canes out second round and hurt machida before choking him out cold.


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

What a moron Jones is for saying this...Shogun vs Jones sold about 490k, Machida vs Jones sold about 485k, Rampage vs Jones sold about 520k...his biggest draw was the Rashad fight which sold around 700k, how's he even get off making such stupid comparisons? Especially considering UFC's gate sales for the Machida vs Jones fight was the highest by over a 1,000,000(yes, 1 million) out of all his championship fights...

Jones needs to recheck his numbers; this might be just Jones's way of telling people, "hey, I get a cut of ppv money."


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MagiK11 said:


> EDIT:
> SideWays222 I'm positive Jones is saying this to get some heat so he can possibly generate more positive and negative attention which translates into more money at the end of the day. I also don't think he's scared of Lyoto, but IF he is in fact serious, I'd be very very disappointed in him as a champ.


Yeah if he is being serious then i would be like "W.T.F". The UFC has the sissiest most raw talent champion in UFC history. He should be ashamed being in the locker room with other fighters if he is being serious.

BUT

Im sure he is saying this so Dana White goes "Well would you accept the fight if i gave you +$$$$$$+". Then Jones would be like "Alright il need that guaranteed money because i wont get much from the PPV cut if i fight him."


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

If Jon Jones does not want to fight Anderson and Machida because of the financial risk, what does he want? There is no one left after Henderson. There is no other big names that would sell unless he fights SIlva or moves to HW.


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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

This fight is GOING to happen. Uncle Dana will make sure of it.


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## joey.jupiter (Apr 7, 2010)

ah yes Lyoto Machida puts up a half decent fight in the first round (where he does very little damage) and this makes him a big threat to Jones? Of course Jones is scared of him as well, just like Anderson Silva is scared of all his challengers.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

joey.jupiter said:


> ah yes Lyoto Machida puts up a half decent fight in the first round (where he does very little damage) and this makes him a big threat to Jones? Of course Jones is scared of him as well, just like Anderson Silva is scared of all his challengers.


Considering Machida is a very intelligent fighter you should give him more credit. A rematch would be very interesting as Machida has an idea and a blue print to work with from the first fight. Machida s a strategic fighter, and right now he is motivated and confident in his abilities. Right now Machida is at his peak. I am not sure how a rematch will go, but I'm leaning towards Jones winning. However in a rematch Machida will be better than he was in the first fight.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Wow that's a silly thing to say. Lyoto Machida is not a draw, I assume I won't get as much money as I want for fighting him, and he is dangerous so I'd rather not fight him.

Jones just managed to piss many people off in one go, again.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Wait. Am I reading this right? In a nutshell, Jones wants to fight somebody who's low risk - high reward?

Astonishing arrogance from Jones. Good thing he can fight like Zeus. Otherwise his only fan would be his mother.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Yeah I don't get why people are defending Bones here. It's almost like the situation where Shogun didn't want Teixeira cos he was a high risk low reward type fight. It makes it worse because Bones is the champion and should never say something like this. Dude could retire tomorrow and he'd already have earned more in his career in MMA than he would have doing whatever it was he studied in college (oh that's right, he dropped out didn't he?). Why is he worrying about money?


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Y'know when some people say things like "I dont get all this hate for Bones"? Well its things like this that get him it.

As a champion you should have 0% say in who you fight.


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## rul3z (Jun 27, 2010)

No_Mercy said:


> It clearly paints a vivid picture of his character. He's highly ambitious, self centered, and calculating.
> 
> He went into GJ's camp playing the position game. Plant the seed, move up the ladder, and purge the competition (friend or foe) along the way to achieve his end goal.
> 
> ...


*

Unfortunately most of what you said is true!*


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## the_widowmaker (Aug 31, 2009)

El Bresko said:


> Yeah I don't get why people are defending Bones here. It's almost like the situation where Shogun didn't want Teixeira cos he was a high risk low reward type fight. It makes it worse because Bones is the champion and should never say something like this. Dude could retire tomorrow and he'd already have earned more in his career in MMA than he would have doing whatever it was he studied in college (oh that's right, he dropped out didn't he?). Why is he worrying about money?


In addition, I'm assuming Shogun declined the Teixeira fight because it doesn't have title implications and possibly to preserve his career a little longer. But with Jones, he blatantly admitted that avoiding a fight with Machida has financial motivations. Not that it's wrong to wish you had more money, but dayum...


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

What a stupid thing to say.

It's a good job it's Dana White who makes the decisions and not Jones.

And stating Machida was his lowest PPV in 2011, but put that into context with the the events he actually headlined and it doesn't really mean anything:

UFC 128 - vs. Shogun
UFC 135 - vs. Rampage

Yea, exactly, doesn't say much about Lyoto more about the obvious star power of Shogun and Rampage which we know anyway. 

Jones doesn't want to get punched in the face again by Machida and after seeing Bader get ironed out flat he knows there's legit KO power there. DON'T BE SCARED HOMIE.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Hiro said:


> DON'T BE SCARED HOMIE.


:laugh:

I totally agree. All I'm taking from this is that Machida punched Bones in the face far harder then all the other guys.

Lets not be too hard on Bones though. Yes, he fecks up and says some silly nonsense. But remember... Hes hot property in the MMA world right now. He must do hours worth of interviews every week. 80% of what he says during these interviews is cut. It's hard to never say a single dumb thing when you're under that kind of scrutiny.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I really don't like this picking and choosing and especially when people like this bitch about money. I only made hundreds of thousands of dollard. Boo..... *******..... Hoo.....

Go fight Machida and stop crying. You know, I was really really trying to be a fan of his and kept saying I was done hating on him. But damn he makes it near impossible for me everytime he opens his mouth.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

While I always thought the champ doesn't really get to pick his fights and has to fight whoever the UFC says is the top contender, I agree that this rematch is premature and won't sell. 

Machida is just one fight away from being choked unconscious, I don't see how he deserves this rematch so soon when Gustaf and Phil Davis are still waiting with 6-1 and 5-1 UFC records. 

For those who think Machida was Bones' toughest fight, no, that was clearly Rashad who landed much harder and solid strikes than Machida did, and actually went the distance.

Still, PPV sales seems like a cheap reason for a champ to turn down a fight, I think the "he doesn't deserve it so soon" argument is better.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> While I always thought the champ doesn't really get to pick his fights and has to fight whoever the UFC says is the top contender, I agree that this rematch is premature and won't sell.
> 
> Machida is just one fight away from being choked unconscious, I don't see how he deserves this rematch so soon when Gustaf and Phil Davis are still waiting with 6-1 and 5-1 UFC records.
> 
> ...


Gustaf is scheduled to fight Shogun and Davis is coming off a loss and no contest, scheduled to face Wagner Prado again.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

This kid is so adorable. He thinks he's a superstar.

The dude has never even eclipsed the 3 quarters of a million PPV buyrate.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

It's amazing what money does to some fighters. This is why you have to appreciate the likes of JDS and GSP. Fight who the fans and the brass want you to fight. At the end of the day, they're paying your salary. 

I can see why Anderson Silva is more choosey. He's coming up to the end of a storied career, and I can appreciate his wanting to fight new/big names, even if I do disagree with his approach. Jon Jones, however, is young and could have two decades left in his career. Getting picky with who you fight at this stage of your career is just silly, especially when you're making bank regardless.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

I could understand if he was saying 'I've choked him unconscious already, He hasn't done enough since then to fight for the belt again' but this is just ridiculous. 

Main event title fight + PPV cut + Nike sponsor = Not enough money.

Okay.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

If Jones won't, Hendo will.


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## Gustafsson Fan (Apr 3, 2012)

Machida has a size disadvantage vs Jones because he could fight at 185 and Jones couldn't. Machida do not fight at 185 because his friend is Anderson Silva and he fights giving opponents like Jones a distinct advantage. 

Machida is on the same level as Jones, Anderson Silva, GSP, JDS.

Jones is right in that Machida IS high risk but Jones shouldn't complain being given that size advantage!


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Not because "i'm on Jones' nuts"...but the guy is right, in many ways.

Imagine this: if you think about a title fight, it's just 2 guys entering the cage and fighting for the belt. The moment the fight starts, there is no champion: there are just 2 guys who previously fought other guys in order to get there and have the chance to become champion.

And in this case, it's kinda BS. 

I have nothing against Machida. He's a good guy and a great MMA fighter, but comm'on. The UFC is treating him like a "baby". 
He lost 2 fights: Shogun 2 + Jackson. Then he beats a 46 year old Couture and gets a title shot. So, a 1 fight winning streak got him a title shot.

He gets chocked out, pretty brutally. Takes 8 months off. Knocks out a mid-tier fighter (Bader)...and gets another title shot.

In the meantime, Jones has fought (and has to fight) 2 more times...and against much tougher competition, to get in the same position Machida is at this moment: fight for the title again....(if you know what i mean from the previous paragraph...)

Ok...there is the matter of beating Henderson...the fight isn't won just by reading the names. He has to actually fight, i hope he realizes that. I hope he doesn't get distracted by this talks about his next opponent...

I know there is that problem with the competition in the LHW division, but the UFC is making it look like they're not trying "to solve this situation". It feels like they're trying to "reheat a cold dish" and sell it to the clients (the fans) with the lebel: "fresh food".

Yes Machida came up with some interesting questions for Jones in the first 5 minutes, but what happened after that was nothing short from utter dominance. 

You cannot blame a fighter for raising a problem like this one.

Imagine what it would be like if Aldo would have to fight Mendes again in his next fight. \because Mendes just beat his next opponent in very impressive fashion and Aldo doesn't have a lot of competitors in his division atm.

It's a similar situation with the one in the HW division, with JDS and Cain, the difference being the LHW div doesn't have an Alistair Overeem case.


For the good of the LHW division, i wish Jones would beat beat Henderson and then announce he's vacating the title and moving to HW, because he doeesn't want to rematch Machida.

It would sound like a "douchy move" at first glance, but i belive he would get a lot of approvals from fans around the world: "boners" and "anti-boners" at the same time.

It would take the HW division by surprise and it would create and interesting scenario all of a sudden, for both divisions.


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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

In the midst of all the Jon Jones hate train, I'm one of the few people that back him. But even I'M upset by this. The hell his he worried about ppv draws for? Its a fight. Beat his ass, and move on.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Right now I am contemplating the karmic perfection of a gif of Dan Henderson dive bombing an unconscious Jones to deliver that final unnecessary blow.



it feels right.:hug:


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## otronegro (Aug 23, 2011)

limba said:


> Not because "i'm on Jones' nuts"...but the guy is right, in many ways.
> 
> Imagine this: if you think about a title fight, it's just 2 guys entering the cage and fighting for the belt. The moment the fight starts, there is no champion: there are just 2 guys who previously fought other guys in order to get there and have the chance to become champion.
> 
> ...




Damn right he needs to move to HW if he thinks like that, he wants money and that's the excuse he uses to not fight Machida again but in reality we know and he knows that Gustaf, Teixeira or even Chael won't draw enough ppv to increase his numbers. so in the end he's just bitching....


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

otronegro said:


> Damn right he needs to move to HW if he thinks like that, he wants money and that's the excuse he uses to not fight Machida again but in reality we know and he knows that Gustaf, Teixeira or even Chael won't draw enough ppv to increase his numbers. so in the end he's just bitching....


Dude...think about this for a second. \These are professional fighters. This is how they make their money. Of course it's all about the money. And the fame and all that. And of course every fighter will say he is in this for the challenges, because he loves the sport and all that.

I am not saying a fighter should be in the position to pick his fights, but he can express his opinion about his fights: "bring it on" or "meh...".

The problem i have with a "possible" rematch between Jones and Machida is this one: it wasn't that competitive, the finish was pretty brutal and it comes way too soon after the first fight, with the lose of the fight being too inactive in the meantime.

Also: let's imagine this scenario: you are part of the UFC team promoting this fight. 

I will kindly ask you to do one thing: please "sell me" this fight. Make me "believe" in this rematch. Make me wanna buy this fight, Make me wanna watch this fight.

ANd don't think about me as a Jon Jones fan. Think about me as a regular fan.

I trully believe one of the biggest reasons people would buy this fight is, the chance to watch Jones lose and say: "haaaaaaaa m***ther f**cker....you lost"

_PS: assuming he beats Henderson, of course _


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## usernamewoman (Sep 24, 2007)

wait for those that dont remember jones had to take machida to beat him, jones never really hit machida and when he went to his corner in the first, jackson told him to take him down. even in his post fight machida made a statement that after that elbow he was out of that fight


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

usernamewoman said:


> wait for those that dont remember jones had to take machida to beat him, jones never really hit machida and when he went to his corner in the first, jackson told him to take him down. even in his post fight machida made a statement that after that elbow he was out of that fight


Ok, whether that is true or not, Jones choked Machida UNCONCIOUS in under 2 rounds.

this wasn't some close decision that went back and forth, that could have gone either way. Machida was beaten, and beaten in devastating fashion.

I for one give Machida no chance in a rematch this soon after the last loss. Machida has had his go, now let somebody else have a turn while he works his way back to a shot. Knocking out Ryan Bader does not constitute working your way back to a title shot in my book.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

It doesn't matter if Lyoto doesn't really deserve the shot, he has been given it and Jones will just have to fight him. This thing about PPV numbers is BS.

Besides, Bader was coming off a win over Jackson who had fought for the title in his last fight, so Machida knocking him out like he did is quite a high profile win. Highest in the division after Hendo's win over Shogun, which earned him a title shot.

I believe Machida should need another win to secure a title shot, but Dana went all out on the FOX 4 fights saying one of them would get a shot, so it is what it is. The winner of Shogun vs Gustaf will be thoroughly deserving, that's the true No.1 Contender fight in the division right now.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm a JBJ fan but I really don't understand the logic behind not fighting Machida. He can't be having rematches with people who will give him higher PPV buys, because then he would fight Rampage again. And there really is no one at LHW for him to fight to get this big PPV draw. Only option for him is to move up to HW and fight Cain/Overeem/JDS for big PPV numbers. 

Look at GSP for example, he hasn't really faced a lot of top drawing fighters, but he carries the whole PPV card, no matter how bad it really is, and still ends up getting between 700-1000k draws. 

I think JBJ started fighting too often, sure as a hardcore fan I loved seeing him fight 4 times a year, but from a JBJ business side, it makes more sense to go the GSP route and fight 1-2 times a year, and get these massive PPV numbers if thats all he cares about.


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## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

Seems a bit of a conspiracy to me.. Jones saying he doesn't want to rematch Lyoto, Lyoto saying he would take another fight before fighting for the title.. Now we have the Jones/Sonnen twitter spat.. Are we heading towards Jones v Sonnen instead? (If Jones beats Hendo of course..)


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

hixxy said:


> Seems a bit of a conspiracy to me.. Jones saying he doesn't want to rematch Lyoto, Lyoto saying he would take another fight before fighting for the title.. Now we have the Jones/Sonnen twitter spat.. Are we heading towards Jones v Sonnen instead? (If Jones beats Hendo of course..)


Oh god I hope not...


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

SM33 said:


> *I believe Machida should need another win to secure a title shot,* but Dana went all out on the FOX 4 fights saying one of them would get a shot, so it is what it is. *The winner of Shogun vs Gustaf will be thoroughly deserving, that's the true No.1 Contender fight* in the division right now.


Correct on the bolded part.

The thing is: this title shot plus the previous are a result of a one fight winning streak. And the second shot is supposed to be a rematch, if Jones wins.
Plus: both wins that earned Machida his shot weren't against other contenders. Couture is a legend, but that was his retirement fight. And Bader is a good fighter, but he will never be considered a top contender.

Also, it's not like Machida showcased something out of this world against Bader: he dominated, but in his own way: ellusive, ultra fast and lethal + precise counterstriking. We didn't get to see if his TD defense has improved. We didn't get to see if he is able to get up after being taken down by a strong wrestler. We didn't get to see if his BJJ has evolved. List goes on.

We saw a vintage Machida, taking care of business, against a guy he was supposed to beat easily; a sub-mediocre striker, whose style would suit perfectly Machida's style.

Basically, if Jones beats Henderson, he will go into the Machida fight exactly like he went into the first Machida fight. And all the questions surrounding the fight would be the same: can Machida hit Jones from the outside? can he get in and out fast enough, while tagging Jones? can Machida avoid the TD? can he survive on the bottom with Jones on top?

But, even with all these being said, Machida sounds like the best option for the fight, considering Gustafsson got injured. If not for that injury, he would have already been in a title eliminator, maybe against Machida and that fight would have made much more sense, in determining a clear No. 1 contender.

_I also believe, the outcome of Gustafsson vs Rua will have a big impact on Jones's future and the future of the LHW and HW division.
If Jones takes care of business and beats both Henderson and Machida he will wait for the next contender.

If that guy is Gustafsson, it's gonna be interesting and something the UFC could sell, and the fans could buy it.

But if Rua wins, it will be hard for the UFC to sell a second rematch in a row involving Jon Jones.

And that might be the spark that could/will send Jones to the HW division.
_

Just sayin'...


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

limba said:


> Also, it's not like Machida showcased something out of this world against Bader: he dominated, but in his own way: ellusive, ultra fast and lethal + precise counterstriking. We didn't get to see if his TD defense has improved. We didn't get to see if he is able to get up after being taken down by a strong wrestler. We didn't get to see if his BJJ has evolved. List goes on.


Jones beats bader, gets title shot, legend in the making

Machida beats bader, gets title shot, BLASPHEMY!!!!!

you do realize the hypocrisy of condoning a guy getting a title shot for beating Bader when that's exactly what your boy did, am I taking crazy pills here?


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

rabakill said:


> Jones beats bader, gets title shot, legend in the making
> 
> Machida beats bader, gets title shot, BLASPHEMY!!!!!
> 
> you do realize the hypocrisy of condoning a guy getting a title shot for beating Bader when that's exactly what your boy did, am I taking crazy pills here?


Not really a Jones fan but come on...Jones took the title fight on short notice after walking through literally everyone that had been put in front of him at that point. Machida lost to Jones then beat Bader and is getting a shot. Clearly very different situations.

Sent from my Desire HD using VerticalSports.Com App


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

rabakill said:


> Jones beats bader, gets title shot, legend in the making
> 
> Machida beats bader, gets title shot, BLASPHEMY!!!!!
> 
> you do realize the hypocrisy of condoning a guy getting a title shot for beating Bader when that's exactly what your boy did, am I taking crazy pills here?





Life B Ez said:


> Not really a Jones fan but come on...Jones took the title fight on short notice after walking through literally everyone that had been put in front of him at that point. Machida lost to Jones then beat Bader and is getting a shot. Clearly very different situations.
> 
> Sent from my Desire HD using VerticalSports.Com App


What B EZ said.

+ Jones wasn't supposed to fight Rua in the first place.

It was all about Rua vs Evans, but Evans got injured and they needed a replacement on 6 weeks notice...remember?


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Also, wasnt Bader undefeated when he fought Bones?

EDIT: YEs, Yes he was: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Bader


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

limba said:


> What B EZ said.
> 
> + Jones wasn't supposed to fight Rua in the first place.
> 
> It was all about Rua vs Evans, but Evans got injured and they needed a replacement on 6 weeks notice...remember?


oh I remember. Hypocrisy reigns supreme on mmaforum


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

I'm suprised jones is being this candid about wanting the most money. He should have kept that between him and his management.

As for machida the rematch is too soon. I don't blame jones for not wanting it. I'm just a fan and I don't want it either.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

vilify said:


> I'm suprised jones is being this candid about wanting the most money. He should have kept that between him and his management.
> 
> As for machida the rematch is too soon. I don't blame jones for not wanting it. I'm just a fan and I don't want it either.


In the end, its all about money. 

Anderson Silva complained about PPV buys and not getting as much money being the P4P fighter. 

Dan Henderson left the UFC for money reasons...

As much as fighters say they they do it for the love on the sport, the #1 reason they are what they are is because they are trying to make money for themselves and their family. In the end, they all want to be in the UFC for the most part because they have the best chance as making more money in the UFC than anywhere else.

I really don't have a problem with fighters or athletes in other sports saying money comes first. Look at the NFL and certain positions, more holdouts happen for certain positions and because of money. Why risk your body and health playing for 1 million when you can be making 4 million. Sure we can all say that we would all do that for a million and all this and that, but thats very easy sitting in front of a desk and not making anywhere near that amount.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Few people get into fighting primarily for money, the money becomes more important as fighters have less to achieve or pass their physical peak.

Until that point it is about being the best at what you do, the primal need to be better than whoever is put in front of you. Jones should be in this mindset, just wanting to fight and continue his dominance, which I'm sure he does, but he hasn't earned the right to turn down fights based on money.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

SM33 said:


> Few people get into fighting primarily for money, the money becomes more important as fighters have less to achieve or pass their physical peak.
> 
> Until that point it is about being the best at what you do, the primal need to be better than whoever is put in front of you. Jones should be in this mindset, just wanting to fight and continue his dominance, which I'm sure he does, but he hasn't earned the right to turn down fights based on money.


Well to your point, I'd say he has the right to turn down a fight who he has beaten and knows he got the better of Machida already. 

Not that I particularly agree that he should turn it down, just going off your point. 

Sure fighters don't necessarily get into this sport to make a quick buck, but I'm sure a lot of the fighters wouldn't be doing it if they couldn't make a living off of it. Not saying every fighter makes a living off fighting, a lot of these lower card fighters have to work a full time job on the side, but the goal is to make MMA their full time job, like everyone else, sometimes their goals don't exactly come to form. 

How many of the top fighters today would turn down the $4000 these up and coming fighters get now? I guarantee most if not all of them do. Didn't BJ Penn leave the UFC for money back then? 

Once you establish yourself in a company, in the end it all comes back to money.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

limba said:


> We didn't get to see if his TD defense has improved. We didn't get to see if he is able to get up after being taken down by a strong wrestler. We didn't get to see if his BJJ has evolved. List goes on.


Tito Ortiz is a very big powerful wrestler and he was toyed by Lyoto who actually took Tito down later on the fight. So far I don´t see anything to question Lyoto's TD defense, BJJ or ability to stay standing. 

I believe Gustafsson should come in line before Lyoto and I understand the frustration of Jones on having to do the job again against Machida. The way Jones highlighted the money part was just tasteless.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

JDS doesn't moan about facing Cain when he knocked him out less than a year ago. He is the type of Champion that deserves to be getting a big slice of PPV money, kid deserves everything he gets.

Jones just got a Nike deal and is now declining a fight with the assumption that it won't make him as much money as he wants. It's his fault he wrapped his very expensive new car around a telephone pole, he'll have to save up for another one.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Jones is a pansy


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

SM33 said:


> ...it is about being the best at what you do, *the primal need to be better than whoever is put in front of you.*


I think this might be something that bothers him tbh, because, like we all know, he was better than the guy they put in front of him. He got into the mindset you talked about, and he put on one of his best performances. 

And now he should start all over again, if he beats Henderson.

I don't know if this frustrates him or not, but i think he might feel the UFC are pushing Machida into this fight and backing him up in a possible second fight, considering Lyoto's previous title shot came a bit out of the blue also.

The situation at LHW looks almost like the situation at HW, but the difference being JDS didn't get to fight Overeem because of the TRT ban and he rematches Cain because of this.
Personally i don't think Cain deserves a rematch so soon.
But the first fight has a weird tale: lasted 1 minute so there are a lot of questions on how it "could have", "should have", "would have"...if not for that fast KO.

I believe fast rematches should only take place in a situation like Edgar-Maynard 2, where a fight is a draw or it is extremely close or controversial.

But, maybe there is much more to it; stuff that we don't know: sponsorships or other things, that make it hard to accept a certain fight.

Who knows?



Spec0688 said:


> Well to your point, I'd say he has the right to turn down a fight who he has beaten and knows he got the better of Machida already.


I don't think he has the right to turn down a fight...afterall he's the champion. He would be stripped of the belt i guess.

& i don't think he will turn down any fight, involving a belt.

I do believe though, that he has the right to express his thoughts about the division and the competition, without insulting the others. 




MMA-Sportsman said:


> Tito Ortiz is a very big powerful wrestler and he was toyed by Lyoto who actually took Tito down later on the fight. So far I don´t see anything to question Lyoto's TD defense, BJJ or ability to stay standing.


With all the due respect, but Tito's career was already on a dive when he fought Machida.

You can't compare Jones' wrestling to Tito's. 
Different wrestling styles alltogether + different fighters alltogheter.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

SM33 said:


> JDS doesn't moan about facing Cain when he knocked him out less than a year ago. He is the type of Champion that deserves to be getting a big slice of PPV money, kid deserves everything he gets.
> 
> Jones just got a Nike deal and is now declining a fight with the assumption that it won't make him as much money as he wants. It's his fault he wrapped his very expensive new car around a telephone pole, he'll have to save up for another one.


exactly, JDS is the fcking man. Jones and JDS are polar opposites. How anyone can support and defend a narcissist like Jones is beyond me. Sure Jones earned what he has and he is as good as everyone says, but he's not a role model, he's a self-centered hypocrite which is fine, mma needs bad guys.

JDS is the man because he never fakes it, he's just a good guy at heart and he helps people out whenever he can. Jones has one person on his list of priorities and one person only. When Cigano hits an obstacle in life people everywhere will help support him, when Jones has troubles in life he'll have nobody to fall back on because he only helps himself. Here's Junior fighting whomever the UFC puts in front of him while Jones is squabbling about his paycheque, publicly. He'd be so much better off just saying nothing, that way he could wreck cars and try to avoid low ppv fights and he wouldn't look so bad.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Tito Ortiz is a very big powerful wrestler and he was toyed by Lyoto who actually took Tito down later on the fight. So far I don´t see anything to question Lyoto's TD defense, BJJ or ability to stay standing.


:laugh:


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

rabakill said:


> ...when Jones has troubles in life he'll have nobody to fall back on...


............enter --->
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ME!


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

rabakill said:


> exactly, JDS is the fcking man. Jones and JDS are polar opposites. *How anyone can support and defend a narcissist like Jones is beyond me.* Sure Jones earned what he has and he is as good as everyone says, but he's not a role model, he's a self-centered hypocrite which is fine, mma needs bad guys.
> 
> JDS is the man because he never fakes it, he's just a good guy at heart and he helps people out whenever he can. Jones has one person on his list of priorities and one person only. When Cigano hits an obstacle in life people everywhere will help support him, when Jones has troubles in life he'll have nobody to fall back on because he only helps himself. Here's Junior fighting whomever the UFC puts in front of him while Jones is squabbling about his paycheque, publicly. He'd be so much better off just saying nothing, that way he could wreck cars and try to avoid low ppv fights and he wouldn't look so bad.


Probably because the majority of his fans don't give a shit about him being an arrogant prick, I'm obviously a much bigger fan of Lyoto but I love watching Jon fight, after all this isn't a beauty pageant, I don't give a shit what Jones does outside of the cage, he's a violent son of a bitch inside the cage and that's what it's all about.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Probably because the majority of his fans don't give a shit about him being an arrogant prick, I'm obviously a much bigger fan of Lyoto but I love watching Jon fight, after all this isn't a beauty pageant, I don't give a shit what Jones does outside of the cage, he's a violent son of a bitch inside the cage and that's what it's all about.


Yeah he's generally an entertaining fighter, he makes it so easy to root against him though. 

I used to really dislike Rashad, in the buildup for their fight I became a Rashad fan.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

haha, damn limba. Credit to you for being lighthearted


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)




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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

rabakill said:


> haha, damn limba. Credit to you for being lighthearted


No worries... 

I'm a fan of Jones' "violence".


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm a fan of JBJ but I also don't care what fighters say outside the ring for the most part. I'm a fan because of what they do inside the cage. So far he only made one mistake with the DUI and I'm sure he learned a big lesson from that, but other than that, he hasn't really caused any problems outside of the fighting game. 

I'm also a fan of Diaz who can't speak for shit in front of the camera. Again, he is exciting to watch and thats all I care about for the most part.

The only thing I ever cared about a fighter saying was Mir hoping Brock would die in the ring, that has no place in MMA and was nothing but ill will towards another opponent. Do I hate Mir for it now? no. I'm not one to hold grudges against fighters who I haven't even met in real life, talked to them or know what they are really like behind the cameras. 

I find it funny how so many people can be wrapped up in hating fighters so passionately as some when in fact, they don't have anything to go by other then whats in the media, and that is a very small percentage of their life.


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## the ultimate (Mar 5, 2007)

I wouldn't mind seeing him fight Machida again but I can see his point. I hate the point that Lyoto won a round against him so that means he's deserving of a rematch. So what? He got choked unconscious and dropped to the canvas right after that.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

It doesn't mean he deserves a rematch. 

It's just a little suspicious that Bones doesn't want to fight him again, it's not like he's saying "Oh Lyoto needs another good win or two before he deserves a rematch", he's saying "Lyoto is a high risk, low reward fight" and he also said that he doesn't know what he'd do if he was given the fight. 

Not a champions mentality IMO. Why doesn't Bones ever mention Gustafsson's name?


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

El Bresko said:


> It doesn't mean he deserves a rematch.
> 
> It's just a little suspicious that Bones doesn't want to fight him again, it's not like he's saying "Oh Lyoto needs another good win or two before he deserves a rematch", he's saying "Lyoto is a high risk, low reward fight" and he also said that he doesn't know what he'd do if he was given the fight.
> 
> Not a champions mentality IMO. Why doesn't Bones ever mention Gustafsson's name?


Probably the same reason he doesn't mention Davis' name, neither guy really has a significant win. Although I do think Gus is gonna cream Shogun in December.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Probably the same reason he doesn't mention Davis' name, neither guy really has a significant win. Although I do think Gus is gonna cream Shogun in December.


Phil has a recent loss to Rashad though which places him back down the rankings a bit. Gus did lose to Phil but that was a couple years ago and he's had a nice little streak in the meantime even beating a couple guys that Bones beat on his way to the title.

Shogun is his first test with the big boys and I agree, he'll perform swimmingly. After Shogun he'll be on a 6 fight winning streak and easily the no.1 contender. 1 million credits says so


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

limba said:


> With all the due respect, but Tito's career was already on a dive when he fought Machida.
> 
> You can't compare Jones' wrestling to Tito's.
> Different wrestling styles alltogether + different fighters alltogheter.


No doubt about it. I totally agree. I just used Tito for the size comparison you mentioned before, but anyway, even down hill, TD is his specialty and after that Lyoto fought Coulture also in his way out but still counting with the ability to take anybody down. Let´s not forget Rashad is a strong wrestler and Bader as well and Lyoto lost to Jones because Jones was a better fighter overall, not only a better wrestler. Got to respect Lyoto´s Sumo base, one of his best qualities.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

El Bresko said:


> Phil has a recent loss to Rashad though which places him back down the rankings a bit. Gus did lose to Phil but that was a couple years ago and he's had a nice little streak in the meantime even beating a couple guys that Bones beat on his way to the title.
> 
> Shogun is his first test with the big boys and I agree, he'll perform swimmingly. After Shogun he'll be on a 6 fight winning streak and easily the no.1 contender. 1 million credits says so


Dang...you got the Mauler ay! He's dope for sure, but I'm going with Shogun. Problem is I want Gustaf to fight against JBJ. They should have fed Gustaf someone like Griffin or even Bader not Shogun of all people.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> No doubt about it. I totally agree. I just used Tito for the size comparison you mentioned before, but anyway, even down hill, TD is his specialty and after that Lyoto fought Coulture also in his way out but still counting with the ability to take anybody down. Let´s not forget Rashad is a strong wrestler and Bader as well and Lyoto lost to Jones because Jones was a better fighter overall, not only a better wrestler. Got to respect Lyoto´s Sumo base, one of his best qualities.


Rashad never even shot for a TD against Lyoto. But yeah Lyoto does have good TDD, I dunno if he can stuff Bones for 5 rounds but his distancing is really interesting and makes it harder to get TDs. Bones is primarily a Greco Roman wrestler meaning he relies on TDs from the clinch, Lyoto aims to keep distance and lunge in with quick strikes. Bones timed him well in the 2nd round of last fight but I think Lyoto can adjust and prevent himself from getting caught this time.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Everybody play nice. Jebus tapdancing Christ.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

I see valid points in this thread... 

In no way am I questioning Jon's skills, they really speak for themselves.

Comments like what he just made make even fans of his cringe. Jones should never say some of the shit he has, there's no excuse for it. If he was an honest, down to earth guy, he'd never have to worry about slipping up and saying something bad.

You don't get to pick your opponents, the UFC does. He thinks all this money will last and he's untouchable... guess what it can all disappear in a blink of an eye. 

Next thing we'll hear is Jones involved in some domestic dispute... geez :thumbsdown:


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Probably because the majority of his fans don't give a shit about him being an arrogant prick, I'm obviously a much bigger fan of Lyoto but I love watching Jon fight, after all this isn't a beauty pageant, I don't give a shit what Jones does outside of the cage, he's a violent son of a bitch inside the cage and that's what it's all about.


My sentiments exactly.

As long as he fights like he does, I will always look forward to a Bones fight. He's gone a little bit Greg Jackson of late. Less flamboyant. Less risks... but so effective that I am still in awe. How many times has he been punched cleanly in the face since becoming champion? And when he does get hit it seems to do nothing at all.

The good thing about fighters I enjoy watching also being huge twats, is that when they inevitably lose, then that's fecking awesome as well. Watching Jon Jones is pure win.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

I just don't want to see Jon become a Tim Sylvia. Being the champion meaning more to him than being a fighter. I don't see Jon doing that and I hope he continues to bring fun and exciting fights/dominations to the cage. I see him wanting to be an Anderson Silva style champion and not a GSP style champion. I'm good with that as well.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

I just think it is funny how he brings up PPV numbers and how low Machida's fight was. Yet Shogun fight was 5,000 more. Rampage who is a big draw was hardly much more. He makes no sense when he talks numbers. Who else at 205 does he think will give him big number PPV. Chael maybe? Gustaf? No. Bader 2? No. Evans 2? No. Shogun 2? No more than a Machida 2. So he really is just talking out of his ass when he is talking PPVs.

He seems scared. This is the REAL Jon Jones. A guy who seems greedy as fock, a guy who is saying he doesn't want to rematch a guy that the UFC wants next, bring up fake excuses like PPV numbers that are actually irrelevant because the Machida fight didn't do that many less than his other cards. 

Rashad was right. There are 2 Jon Jones'. He is a great fighter but he is fake as all hell. He isn't the guy that the UFC or he wants to portray in countdowns or dumb commercials. He's a greedy fake who is so in love with himself as champion.


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

Who knows what the actual buy rates are? I think his bank account knows better than Dave Meltzer predictions. And I find it funny people think Bones is afraid of Machida. Yes, Machida's style gives him a pretty good chance, but Bones still left him laying in the second round.

(Also keep in mind Bones/Machida card had Mir/Nog and Tito/Lil Nog while the Rampage, Shogun, and Evans fights had nothing else)


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Fieos said:


> I just don't want to see Jon become a Tim Sylvia. Being the champion meaning more to him than being a fighter. I don't see Jon doing that and I hope he continues to bring fun and exciting fights/dominations to the cage. *I see him wanting to be an Anderson Silva style champion* and not a GSP style champion. I'm good with that as well.


Looks like he's headed there with the money issue.

I think EVERY fighter should shut up and fight whoever the UFC tells them to, this political non-sense is gonna ruin MMA.


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## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

I don't agree with any fighter dictating their next fight regardless who it is. If the UFC says Lyoto is number 1 and he doesn't fight him then move up in weight class and/or give up your belt. This isn't boxing where people pick and chose their fights. Anyways his ego needs to be realligned in a big way apparently, hopefully Hendo can give him a reality check.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

I think Jones blames Machida(and Griffin) for the low buyrate 141 was a super card with six main eventers and they didn't bring in the money so Jones wants someone who is a draw (Shogun). Their's a reason why Jay Hieron, Che Mills, and Eddie Wineland all fight on co-main events for Jones title fights and it's because they don't take away from his cut of the PPV.

Also...I don't blame Jones for this because it was these big PPV stars at 205 that refused to fight him relegated him to TV that has clearly embittered him.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I have yet to see a statement where Jones has said he will not fight Lyoto in a rematch, rather he would fight someone that will bring in more PPV draws. I see no problem with this statement. Someone wake me when he actual refuses to go into the cage with any fighter.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

The Best Around said:


> Who knows what the actual buy rates are? I think his bank account knows better than Dave Meltzer predictions. And I find it funny people think Bones is afraid of Machida. Yes, Machida's style gives him a pretty good chance, but Bones still left him laying in the second round.
> 
> (Also keep in mind Bones/Machida card had Mir/Nog and Tito/Lil Nog while the Rampage, Shogun, and Evans fights had nothing else)


Although these are facts, I feel you being quite biased towards Jones. Sure, the buyrates might not have been great, but is that to say that Machida and Tito aren't some of the most well known characters of all time? Machida is by far the most interesting and watchable fight for Jones at LHW. You know it too, so just because one of your favourite fighters say something, doesn't mean you need to agree with it.

Jones mentioning buyrates made me lose respect for him a bit here. Fighters should be fighters, not businessmen. You get guys like Chris Lytle who lived off of post-match bonuses, so even though he wasn't earning anywhere near JBJ money, he was demanding that he got more through his fight performance. Jones is acting like Machida isn't marketable. People were literally thinking that Machida was unbeatable for a while. He was a superstar. A few bad performances doesn't give Jones the right to claim someone doesn't deserve to fight him.

Jones Vs Machida, then moves up. If Jones has said he wanted someone else or wanted to move up BEFORE the fight was announced, I'd be with him. But not after.

**** it, why even talk about this? I'm just holding out until I get to see Machida Vs Hendo for the LHW title.


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## killua (Mar 4, 2012)

Someone should mention to Jones that he will still make a shit load of money fighting Machida while a 'legitimate' #1 contender is sorted out. Sitting and waiting for a better fight won't.


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## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

Jones is talking like he's an agent. He's likely being coached by that little rat of a human Malki Kawa to hold out for "big money" because he'll make more money off of Jones in the process. Anyways just fight whoever the number 1 contender is and keep your mouth shut.


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## evilappendix (Jan 4, 2007)

I don't see the problem here, seeing as Hendo will be fighting Machida...


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## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

It's very different when the champ turn down fights. He is the one at the top and carrying the belt's credibility. Sure he should only fight deserving challengers but there's no way Machida isn't within the deserving range (as the division is looking as of now). Bones didn't even mean he was unworthy but the opposite - too high of a risk. 

It's serious even if there's only speculations that a champ is ducking and turning down opponents, but here Bones is openly turning down a high risk opponent. :thumbsdown:

I can't see that Dana is going to let him get away with it fortunately. But it shows the mindset of the champ. (But of course I think he is an awesome fighter.)

#Moved to the right thread.


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

Jones really did something amazing... when he turned me into a Rashad fan!

Lyoto definitely got good results in his 1st round then he got caught, but out of all the jones fights, Lyoto was one where he really got tested, he does not want to take that chance anymore and he's trying to hide behind this "businessman" persona.

Dana & the fertittas are businessmen there, the fighters have no say on what's going to make a good PPV or not. 

Machida earned his shot fair and square and I find Jones extremely disrespectful towards machida here, Machida is of Japanese descent and Japanese culture, and there's nothing worse for a japanese to be disrespected and dishonored.


plus it's also disrespectful to hendo, Jones is clearly looking past him, also denying all the legitimacy that hendo has and jones has yet to achieve in the sport.

one of them is going to teach jones a lesson

until then he should keep his mouth shut. I hope Dana also puts him back in his place.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Machida took out Randy in Toronto. In this rematch I do believe Machida will prevail. I put money down on him in the first fight and I'll do it again. Sure it's based on some favoritism, but as I said Machida along with Gustaff has the best chance in dethroning the current LHW belt holder. 

It'll end within two rounds one way or another. Only a month away.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

So....

Who all's gonna be on Team Machida come the 22nd?


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

No_Mercy said:


> Machida took out Randy in Toronto.


Jones also choked him out cold and dropped him on his face in Toronto.






TheLyotoLegion said:


> So....
> 
> Who all's gonna be on Team Machida come the 22nd?


I was neutral last time, and was leaning towards joining Jones' team, not after this shit.

Sent from my Desire HD using VerticalSports.Com App


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## djripz (Feb 3, 2008)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> So....
> 
> Who all's gonna be on Team Machida come the 22nd?


I think everybody will be huge chanting (especially in Toronto) for Machida to win as Jones just screwed all his fans, supporters and so on.

Fans in Toronto are knowledgeable about these type of information. It will be loud.

Its not for us liking Machida or so on but I don't think any fighter would just screwed everybody for their own interest. Plus say he would destroy his opponent then back out for his own interest because of 8 days notices.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> So....
> 
> Who all's gonna be on Team Machida come the 22nd?


Still going to root for the inevitable winner, Jon Bones Jones.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Life B Ez said:


> Jones also choked him out cold and dropped him on his face in Toronto.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll disregard the first part of the quote...haha. But it looks like you're on the Machida train now...choo choo!!!


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

he should have take the fight with Chael then


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

americanfighter said:


> he should have take the fight with Chael then


What fight? Chael hasn't earned anything.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

El Bresko said:


> What fight? Chael hasn't earned anything.


Well then it should have been an easy win for him. 

He had a choice fight Chael in 8 days or fight machida in the next event. 

If he doesnt want any part of machida as the thread says then he should hive picked to fight Chael.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Jones is a bitch who can fight.

******* sucks... i wish he gets punked in the octagon.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

americanfighter said:


> Well then it should have been an easy win for him.
> 
> He had a choice fight Chael in 8 days or fight machida in the next event.
> 
> If he doesnt want any part of machida as the thread says then he should hive picked to fight Chael.


Just like Varner was an easy win for Barboza, Ebersole was an easy win for Chris Lytle, and Brennen was an easy win for Rick Story. All those guys were close to title shots and now one is fighting for his career, one retired, and one is "all hype". Anything can happen when a guys steps in at the last second, Tito Ortiz was this close to a title shot.

We'll also put aside the fact that we don't even know if Chael is clean. Best thing to ever happen to the sport is this event being cancelled. Jones is the super heel everyone wanted hooray!


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

John8204 said:


> Just like Varner was an easy win for Barboza, Ebersole was an easy win for Chris Lytle, and Brennen was an easy win for Rick Story. All those guys were close to title shots and now one is fighting for his career, one retired, and one is "all hype". Anything can happen when a guys steps in at the last second, Tito Ortiz was this close to a title shot.
> 
> We'll also put aside the fact that we don't even know if Chael is clean. Best thing to ever happen to the sport is this event being cancelled. Jones is the super heel everyone wanted hooray!


Jones isnt stepping in on short notice. Chael Sonnen is.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Jones is EASILY my most hated fighter now, **** him, seriously. I like every single fighter better than him now, Bisping, Tito, doesn't matter, he's easily the worst person in MMA, easily, without question.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Jones isnt stepping in on short notice. Chael Sonnen is.


Are you serious with this?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

John8204 said:


> Are you serious with this?


Jones knew he had a fight on September 1st. It shouldnt matter who he is fighting against aslong as the person makes weight. Jones has been training his fighting skills for a match on September 1st. Skills that he can use against any person alive and not just Henderson. 

When you train Boxing that Boxing doesnt only work against 1 person. When you train Kickboxing that Kickboxing isnt only use-able against 1 person. When you train wrestling that wrestling can be used against anyone and not just 1 person. Same with JJ and any other forms of Martial Arts. Even being in shape isnt something thats effective only for 1 person but can be used when fighting ANYONE.

It also doesnt take long to come up with a new strategy. 

Chael Sonnen on the other hand has not been training nearly enough to be in fight shape. He wasnt planning on fighting until December 29th. He isnt anywhere near in peak form. He is underweight. His timing,reflexes are going to be off. His cardio wont be up to par in a 5 round fight especially with his style of fighting.

As i said

Chael Sonnen is taking the fight on late notice and not Jon Jones. Jon jones knew he had to fight on September 1st, change of opponents doesnt change his skills or form.

This is obvious.


*Jon Jones is a selfish coward who can fight.*


If anyone wants to argue that Jon Jones is at a disadvantage due to Henderson pulling out then you are simply a idiot. Jon Jones couldnt have been given a bigger advantageous scenario to win his September 1st fight if he set it up himself.

He has been given a shot to fight a 185er who is out of shape and cant go 5 hard rounds and has 1% finishing ability.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Jones knew he had a fight on September 1st. It shouldnt matter who he is fighting against aslong as the person makes weight. Jones has been training his fighting skills for a match on September 1st. Skills that he can use against any person alive and not just Henderson.
> 
> When you train Boxing that Boxing doesnt only work against 1 person. When you train Kickboxing that Kickboxing isnt only use-able against 1 person. When you train wrestling that wrestling can be used against anyone and not just 1 person. Same with JJ and any other forms of Martial Arts. Even being in shape isnt something thats effective only for 1 person but can be used when fighting ANYONE.
> 
> ...



Boy you've given me so much to address here....

I'm going to set the ground rules, I'm not calling you stupid thinking people are dumber than you that's your bag.



SideWays222 said:


> He has been given a shot to fight a 185er who is out of shape and cant go 5 hard rounds and has 1% finishing ability.


Yeah Jon Jones is not granting a title shot to a 185lber that cheats and hasn't beaten anyone of note at 205. His shape and fighting condition, you do not know he could come flying on PCP, steroids, and coke and try and eat Jones face off. This wasn't Jones opportunity he was ready to fight Henderson and Kosheck pulled out and the UFC decided to breach the contracts of the fighters, advertisers, and networks.



SideWays222 said:


> If anyone wants to argue that Jon Jones is at a disadvantage due to Henderson pulling out then you are simply a idiot. Jon Jones couldnt have been given a bigger advantageous scenario to win his September 1st fight if he set it up himself.


Anecdotal evidence points in the other direction. Fighters who make decisions like this pay for it many examples. Jens Pulver and Kimbo Slice's careers where never the same when they accepted the Lauzon and Petruzelli fights. Your gut may tell you that everyone is stupid and history is wrong but you aren't actually involved you're just a poster on a message board.



SideWays222 said:


> Jones knew he had a fight on September 1st. It shouldnt matter who he is fighting against aslong as the person makes weight. Jones has been training his fighting skills for a match on September 1st. Skills that he can use against any person alive and not just Henderson.


Jon Jones will now fight three weeks later he will take a fight on short notice against a top ten 205er in Lyoto Machida. He will have three weeks of press and promotion that will rile up people like you to spend money on this card. He has never broken 1,000,000 buys, he likely wouldn't have done it in 8 days he'll likely do it now. 

This is a very good business move for Jon Jones, this will be great for the sport of MMA, this sets up two more 205 fights for the title that we didn't have yesterday with Sonnen and Henderson.

*I'm calling it now this is the best thing to happen to MMA this year. And the finances and history will prove me right.*


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

John8204 said:


> Boy you've given me so much to address here....
> 
> I'm going to set the ground rules, I'm not calling you stupid thinking people are dumber than you that's your bag.
> 
> ...


This is the most ridiculous post i have seen on this subject. It makes no sense whatsoever. Im not sure what planet you live in but it isnt earth.

Flying in on PCP,COKE and Steroids.

Jesus crist you are reaching.

You realize he will be tested before the fight and after the fight?

Just go ahead and ignore logic and keep making these silly posts.

how do we know that Jones wasnt planning on getting drunk and then running Chael over with his car before he enters the building.

OR!!!

How do we know what Greg didnt bribe one of Chaels corner-man and have them poison Chaels water. 

So many unknowns!!!


OH and BTW

You do realize people lose fights even when there isnt an opponent change??? Thats just the name of the game. If there wasnt a chance for Jones to lose to Chael then this wouldnt be MMA and no one would watch the fights. But Jones on paper certainly had a better chance to lose against a in shape Henderson then an out of shape 185er who rarely finishes fights in Chael.


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## BOMDC (Feb 13, 2011)

Yeah... gonna have to side with sideways..

Just can't see the context where disgusting (not disappointing) your fans, employer, and colleagues is a good business decision. A fighters brand is really all they have besides a record and is arguably more important. Most people who are fans of fighters will pay to see just that, their favorites. Take the Guida Maynard fight, I guarantee Guida would have a lot more fans and potential future audiences if he would have lost by a vicious first round KO rather than not fight like he did.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

> hyperbole
> Example Sentences Origin
> hy·per·bo·le
> [hahy-pur-buh-lee] Show IPA
> ...


I don't believe I've ever seen a person fail to grasp a concept and then execute said concept quite so well.

Bravo.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

Jon Jones doesn't want part of anybody these days apparently.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

John8204 said:


> I don't believe I've ever seen a person fail to grasp a concept and then execute said concept quite so well.
> 
> Bravo.





SideWays222 said:


> This is the most ridiculous post i have seen on this subject. It makes no sense whatsoever. Im not sure what planet you live in but it isnt earth.
> 
> Flying in on PCP,COKE and Steroids.
> 
> ...




Obviously you were exaggerating. But to make that statement to prove a point is ridiculous. No one failed to understand anything.

And i responded with 2 exaggerating scenarios myself which should be enough of a hint that i knew you were exaggerating.

Seems to me you failed to grasp the concept.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> OH and BTW
> 
> You do realize people lose fights even when there isnt an opponent change???


You realize their is a loser in every fight. 



SideWays222 said:


> Thats just the name of the game. If there wasnt a chance for Jones to lose to Chael then this wouldnt be MMA and no one would watch the fights.


Wanna make a cred bet? If this is Jones lowest selling PPV I will quadruple your creds. But if this is his highest selling PPV I get to set your user title for a week.





BOMDC said:


> Yeah... gonna have to side with sideways..
> 
> Just can't see the context where disgusting (not disappointing) your fans, employer, and colleagues is a good business decision. A fighters brand is really all they have besides a record and is arguably more important. Most people who are fans of fighters will pay to see just that, their favorites. Take the Guida Maynard fight, I guarantee Guida would have a lot more fans and potential future audiences if he would have lost by a vicious first round KO rather than not fight like he did.


The context is this is the fight business and bad guys sell more than good guys. Also the UFC is not the employer it's the promoter of the sport they are the ones who defaulted on these contracts.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

It's sad for so many people. The fans who planned trip around it , the fighters on the card and every up and coming fighter at Jackson's cause they just made getting that first call a whole lot harder. Jones screwed a lot of people. 

I just don't understand why Chael would take the fight that was incredibly foolish. Even with a full camp I think sonnen loses. But he would have likely gotten smashed on 8 days prep minus promtional time and where would that have left sonnen. Likely never able to work his way back to a title fight in either division. It was virtually suicide to any title aspirations Chael has 


Sent from my iPhone using VS Free


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## BOMDC (Feb 13, 2011)

But the perception is that Jones selfishly ruined it and that's the reality he will be dealing with. I agree with your "bad guy" fan appeal but that isn't Jones. He's a guy desperately trying to be a role model and an inspiration but is transparent in his motives and generally perceived as a douche. Different than a Lesnar or Koschek/Leben type.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

BOMDC said:


> But the perception is that Jones selfishly ruined it and that's the reality he will be dealing with. I agree with your "bad guy" fan appeal but that isn't Jones. He's a guy desperately trying to be a role model and an inspiration but is transparent in his motives and generally perceived as a douche. Different than a Lesnar or Koschek/Leben type.


As you say yourself he was desperate, now he doesn't have to do that anymore and he gets to make a lot of money. Fans helped turn him into a bad guy and now he's doing bad things.

Kharma, just not the sort certain people are hoping for.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

John8204 said:


> You realize their is a loser in every fight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jesus man... why are you talking about his next buyrate?? Will that change the fact that he as champion ruined an event? Will that change the fact that Chael was willing to step up on 8 days notice while not being anywhere near a training camp. And Jones finished a full training camp and turned down a fight with a 185er??? Will that change the fact that other 16 fighters are out of a pay check right now and wont get a chance to fight???

If Jones wants to be hated then there are many better ways to go about it.

:serious01:

But just for pure pointless entertainment il take the bet.


And yeah there is a loser in every fight. Which is why your defense about Jones being able to lose to Chael even if Chael took the fight on short notice is retarded.

And now Jon Jones has set himself up for a HUGE fall. If he somehow loses his fight to Machida... holy sh!t. I would hate to be him. The UFC wont be backing him up anymore thats for sure.

And i will say

Having the company you work for dislike you is never a good thing.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Jesus man... why are you talking about his next buyrate??


Because that's when Jon Jones is fighting. He signed a short notice fight to take on Lyoto Machida. Might be an important part of the story.



SideWays222 said:


> Will that change the fact that he as champion ruined an event?


He didn't pull out, Josh, Dana, and Dan did.



SideWays222 said:


> Will that change the fact that Chael was willing to step up on 8 days notice while not being anywhere near a training camp. And Jones finished a full training camp and turned down a fight with a 185er???


He said he wasn't going to fight Chael till he earned a title shot, the UFC really shouldn't have even offered it to Chael. But hey now while one event goes down, three more pop up in it's place Jones/Henderson, Jones/Machida, and Jones/Sonnen. Also why is a 185er fighting for the 205 title, shouldn't the organization that runs the sport find someone in the division to fight for the title. Doesn't every division have many fighters in waiting for a title shot. Would you like a list?



SideWays222 said:


> Will that change the fact that other 16 fighters are out of a pay check right now and wont get a chance to fight???


OMG the 16 other fighters aren't going to fight ever again this is the worst thing (this is hyperbole don't wet yourself) to ever happen. They are going to fight at a later date because their promoter defaulted on their contracts.




SideWays222 said:


> If Jones wants to be hated then there are many better ways to go about it.


He was hated before, this is just a new way.



SideWays222 said:


> But just for pure pointless entertainment il take the bet.


I'm giving you 4-1 with only a mild repercussions you should be thrilled.



SideWays222 said:


> And yeah there is a loser in every fight. Which is why your defense about Jones being able to lose to Chael even if Chael took the fight on short notice is retarded.


It's not a defense of Jone it's a fact. You think one camp is just like the other and it doesn't matter who a person fights. The last five years have proven otherwise. Also reminding you he's taking a fight on short notice to someone in the division.



SideWays222 said:


> And now Jon Jones has set himself up for a HUGE fall. If he somehow loses his fight to Machida... holy sh!t. I would hate to be him. The UFC wont be backing him up anymore thats for sure.


We've been hearing this for a while now, he's also getting three big fights for the next year.



SideWays222 said:


> And i will say
> 
> Having the company you work for dislike you is never a good thing.


Dana hates a lot of people even wanted to fist fight Tito he still resigned him and put him in main events. The UFC may not like Jon Jones, but this might make him the number one draw in the sport. Dana doesn't "own" these fighters he has the right to exclusively fight for his promotion. If he wants to be the NFL he can own the fighters won't have to make contract for each individual event. But this is not how MMA works. I know it's hard for people to accept but in this one case the UFC has to do what Jon Jones says.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

John8204 said:


> Because that's when Jon Jones is fighting. He signed a short notice fight to take on Lyoto Machida. Might be an important part of the story.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol what. You must have really forgot what we were talking about. Why dont you go back in the thread and see how this discussion started. 

You focus on stuff that has nothing to do with what took place.

And again you say its Jon Jones who is fighting Machida on short notice. Jon Jones is such a hero for stepping up and taking the fight with machida after Jon just went through a full training camp. What a hero and warrior!! 

Lol

jesus man.. you are just not going to get it.

Keep defending Jones and his awesome decision.

Yeah the UFC should have scrapped the title fight all together and just kept the event going. That would have been giving the fans what they paid for.!!

*Facepalm*

*Chael Sonnen saved this event from being a disaster and Jon Jones was too much of a bitch to fight a different opponent and he pulled out.*


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> *Chael Sonnen saved this event from being a disaster and Jon Jones was too much of a bitch to fight a different opponent and he pulled out.*


Yeah, that's pretty much the essence of what happened.


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