# Best Stand Up Martial Art



## grkted55 (Dec 13, 2009)

This should make for an interesting debate. I truly believe it is boxing. Muay thai is good, karate, wing chun, kickboxing, etc. Boxing on the other hand is greater because of the simplicity and because the "fastest way to hurt someone is to punch them in the brain" Frank Shamrock
What is your opinion? I am not downing any martial art here I just believe boxing is better than any other stand up art. In mma or the street good hands prevail.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

Kickboxing>Boxing.


Boxers wouldn't stand a chance after they got leg kicked twice.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

Well, its all about application. But, from a purely technical, all fighters being equal, point of view:

Kickboxing (American) outclasses Boxing for one reason: Body kicks. A front kick to the body/roundhouse kicks to the body control range and cause damage at a range a boxer cannot compete with. He'd be chewed up and probably KOed by a head kick. 

Muay Thai Kickboxing/All non-American Kickboxing(s) vs Boxing/American Kickboxing. This one goes to Muay Thai and foreign (i.e. Dutch, French, etc) Kickboxing. In Boxing as well as American Kickboxing there are no leg kicks, so, the presence of leg kicks/knees and elbows gives the advantage here to Muay Thai and foreign kickboxing, but against any kickboxer the threat of the headkick is there. Against a boxer, again, he'd be chewed up and possibly KOed. 

On the subject of Karate, Wing Chun, TKD, as well as any other less than sport oriented Martial Art, its not worth my time. Its not that I don't believe in them, I very mch do, I'm just so f*cking tired of arguing with ignorant haters about their application.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

imo Kickboxing is the most effective form of striking in MMA, I think if your good on the ground and only have kickboxing you would be a lot better off then anyone with the same ground skills and had the same stand up skill but only knew Boxing or Muay Thai or Karate, i dont think they would have the same or more success


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## Emre (May 4, 2011)

I don't believe that any one style of martial art is superior to the other. In the words of Bruce Lee: "as long as you are using your body to it's fullest extent, it doesn't matter what martial art you use."

On the subject of my own philosophy; I believe that in mixed martial arts there is no superior base, including striking. You have to discipline yourself within an art and hack away the unessential, when a sculpture sculpts, does he add on more? No, he keeps hacking away until the true nature of the sculpture is revealed. 

There is no one superior style, if a boxer went up a kick-boxer, theoretically a boxer with better skill and athleticism than the kick-boxer would win, however, if you reverse the scenario so it's the kick-boxer with the athleticism and skill it would be the kick-boxer winning. Of course I am dumbing this down a lot and haven't even touched on the mental aspect. 

I have a base in Wing Chun Kung Fu, so I am extremley good at counter-striking, however, I am a natural at wrestling, so my years of experience in Wing Chun are nearly nothing next to my two years of experience in Wrestling. All adding to the point that there is no one superior style. 

If anyone has a difference of opinion, feel free to share.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

grkted55 said:


> This should make for an interesting debate. I truly believe it is boxing. Muay thai is good, karate, wing chun, kickboxing, etc. Boxing on the other hand is greater because of the simplicity and because the "fastest way to hurt someone is to punch them in the brain" Frank Shamrock
> What is your opinion? I am not downing any martial art here I just believe boxing is better than any other stand up art. In mma or the street good hands prevail.


They all have strengths and weakness's and which is the best greatly changes depending on what other attributes the fighter possess. BJ Penn is a great example of a phenomenal boxer in MMA and its not a coincidence that he also has great TD defense. It has nothing to do with stance but the fact BJ in general keeps both feet on the mat and rarely kicks helps him stay upright as long as he desires.

Kickboxing is more versatile while also helping to maintain distance which helps fighters who are weaker in the clinch and wrestling situations. 

MuayThai has proven to be extremely effective but in order to utilize the full arsenal the fighter needs to be afraid of being on the back since both kicks and clinching make you more vulnerable to being taken down.

Karate is also somewhat effective but its a very mobility based system that is not effectively implemented by bigger slower fighters.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

The good answer: whatever style your athleticism and personal style can utilize best.



the real answer: dutch-style kickboxing.


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

grkted55 said:


> This should make for an interesting debate. I truly believe it is boxing. Muay thai is good, karate, wing chun, kickboxing, etc. Boxing on the other hand is greater because of the simplicity and because the "fastest way to hurt someone is to punch them in the brain" Frank Shamrock
> What is your opinion? I am not downing any martial art here I just believe boxing is better than any other stand up art. In mma or the street good hands prevail.


I personally think rigid, strictly defined martial arts are going the way of the dinosaur, primarily because of modern MMA. Boxing, kickboxing, Muay Thai, TKD, Karate - they all have something to offer, but because they all impose rules of whats legal and what's not, they all have weaknesses and strengths. It's all melting together - What works, works, period. Modern MMA is proving that.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

mastodon2222 said:


> I personally think rigid, strictly defined martial arts are going the way of the dinosaur, primarily because of modern MMA. Boxing, kickboxing, Muay Thai, TKD, Karate - they all have something to offer, but because they all impose rules of whats legal and what's not, they all have weaknesses and strengths. It's all melting together - What works, works, period. Modern MMA is proving that.


Its nice in theory to think that we are there but the top trainers in sports like kickboxing and boxing are vastly more refined due to the years of work put in before them. MMA is not at that level which is why guys like GSP still seek out the likes of Freddie Roach. It will be a long time before MMA is at the level many fans would like to believe the sport has reached. The other problem lies in that different physical traits and abilities as well as the other skills they possess as a fighter. Brock Lesnar is never gonna be throwing head kicks, his body type is better suited to traditional boxing. We will see mma striking develop in its own right but they will always remain ties to the traditional arts and they will use those to refine and perfect them on a fighter by fighter level.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> The good answer: whatever style your athleticism and personal style can utilize best.
> 
> 
> 
> the real answer: dutch-style kickboxing.




Lol love the ending of this post 

But i totally agree bro, its whatever fits your style... As long and it teaches your kicks and punches and your good at it then thats the best for you...

Whatever fits your style and covers more then just hands or just feet


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## Relavate (Dec 21, 2010)

Muai thai hands down. Its kickboxing on steriods


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Relavate said:


> Muai thai hands down. Its kickboxing on steriods



Muay Thai isn't the best. It's way too legs-orientated. It's because Muay Thai matches are judged much heavier on kicks, they don't spent enough time boxing to be able to defend against boxing.


I came to this realization just under a year ago, after studying and practicing muay thai like a religion for 3+ years. It was sort of a hard pill to swallow but dutch/holland style kickboxing is simply the more effective style in a limited rules environment.


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## Relavate (Dec 21, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> Muay Thai isn't the best. It's way too legs-orientated. It's because Muay Thai matches are judged much heavier on kicks, they don't spent enough time boxing to be able to defend against boxing.
> 
> 
> I came to this realization just under a year ago, after studying and practicing muay thai like a religion for 3+ years. It was sort of a hard pill to swallow but dutch/holland style kickboxing is simply the more effective style in a limited rules environment.


Agreed mostly. Alot depends on who you train under also.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Without takedowns, kickboxing.

With takedowns, boxing.

Weird way to put it but the context isn't given in terms of rules.


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## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Its nice in theory to think that we are there but the top trainers in sports like kickboxing and boxing are vastly more refined due to the years of work put in before them. MMA is not at that level which is why guys like GSP still seek out the likes of Freddie Roach. It will be a long time before MMA is at the level many fans would like to believe the sport has reached. The other problem lies in that different physical traits and abilities as well as the other skills they possess as a fighter. Brock Lesnar is never gonna be throwing head kicks, his body type is better suited to traditional boxing. We will see mma striking develop in its own right but they will always remain ties to the traditional arts and they will use those to refine and perfect them on a fighter by fighter level.


Yep.

As for the best, I would say you need a combination of boxing technique for your hands, Muay Thai leg kicks and the Muay Thai clinch would be the ultimate if you could combine all 3, which Anderson Silva has to some extent.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> The good answer: whatever style your athleticism and personal style can utilize best.
> 
> 
> 
> the real answer: dutch-style kickboxing.


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## grkted55 (Dec 13, 2009)

I know what you guys are saying but if you had to pick one art out of all the others what would it be? Think about it the thais first started losing when good boxers fought them than they adopted the western boxing techniques and methods.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

grkted55 said:


> I know what you guys are saying but if you had to pick one art out of all the others what would it be? Think about it the thais first started losing when good boxers fought them than they adopted the western boxing techniques and methods.


If I was only allowed to know one Martial Art out of all of the Arts in the entire world. I would have to go with Dutch Kickboxing. 

Its incorporated the aspects of footwork and head movement MT lacks and boxing thrives on, while its incorporated the leg kicks, which are non existent in American Kickboxing, and are the achilles heel of pure Boxing.

Again, this is more just playing the devils advocate by saying if all things were equal and all fighter skill was exactly the same.


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## kimantongboi (May 1, 2011)

for me best the style is a mix of boxing with quick feet and muay thai.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Emre said:


> You have to discipline yourself within an art and hack away the unessential, when a sculpture sculpts, does he add on more? No, he keeps hacking away until the true nature of the sculpture is revealed.


That sounds logic at first glance, but in reality it isn't. By hacking away everything unessential in martial arts you will also lose the expectation of the unessential from your opponent and thereby can easier be surprised by any non-standard attack. And you give up any surprising attacks yourself. If you know the essentials and your opponent knows the essentials you equalize each other, but if one of you knows some unessentials stuff in addition, he's going to have the edge.

The problem with most so called "traditional martial arts" or better said with a lot of their practitioners is that they are too much in love with the unessentials (i.e. flashy moves) and have too much of a focus on that in their training.

The "art" for good training is to find the right balance. Yes, you should have the focus on the essentials and use the majority of your training on these, BUT you should not get a tunnel vision and only train the essentials, but always use a small amount of time to look beyond the essentials so you will be prepared for what could come else and also to have a "surprise" attack in your own arsenal.



Toxic said:


> Its nice in theory to think that we are there but the top trainers in sports like kickboxing and boxing are vastly more refined due to the years of work put in before them. MMA is not at that level which is why guys like GSP still seek out the likes of Freddie Roach. *It will be a long time before MMA is at the level many fans would like to believe the sport has reached.*


I would go even further and say it will never reach that "final" level. I think fighting and MMA is too complex for fighters to really master all aspects of it. So there will always be an evolution or at least a change of focus.



Toxic said:


> The other problem lies in that different physical traits and abilities as well as the other skills they possess as a fighter. Brock Lesnar is never gonna be throwing head kicks, his body type is better suited to traditional boxing. We will see mma striking develop in its own right but they will always remain ties to the traditional arts and they will use those to refine and perfect them on a fighter by fighter level.


That is very true also.


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## mmasouthfla (Jan 18, 2012)

Of course like others said there would be many variables and things like competion use,street use,etc. But say I could only train one I would pick Muay Thai. I think thai legs kicks are way under rated.


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## MMAnWEED (Aug 8, 2010)

If you have heavy hands there is no reason to waste your time learning anything but straight boxing. 4 oz gloves....Use the saved time to develop a better ground game. 

If you weren't blessed with one punch KO power like the majority of fighters, I'd have to go with Muay Thai. the clinch is enormously helpful in MMA. However under K-1 rules, dutch style kickboxing is the obvious pick by a mile. Case in point: Masato vs Buakaw. In an MMA stand up match, Buakaw smashes Masato but under K-1 rules, Masato outpointed Buakaw.


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