# Greatest Fighters ever



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Who are the greatest fighters in their prime in each weight class
my personal picks

HW 206 and up: Fedor No even looks like they can beat him
LHW 186-205: Wanderlei Silva No one has ever dominated for 5 years like him.
MW 171-185: Sakauraba when on his game and not getting hurt was unstoppable
WW 156-170: Matt Hughes I hate him So much but he was so dominate against top guys
LW 140-155:Gomi idk i guess he's the best i couldn't think of anyone else


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## leew11k (Nov 19, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> Who are the greatest fighters in their prime in each weight class
> my personal picks
> 
> HW 206 and up: Fedor No even looks like they can beat him
> ...


pretty much agree with all of them and like u said about hughes i hate him aswell but id go for bj instead of gomi.


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## FreeFighter18 (May 5, 2007)

Royce Gracie is the best fighter period!


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## DropKick (Apr 19, 2007)

FreeFighter18 said:


> Royce Gracie is the best fighter period!



I don't know if he is the greatest fighter ever, but I don't think anyone would be able to duplicate what he did in the early days of the UFC. He was dominant in an era of open wieght tournaments where he had to fight like 3 times a night.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

FreeFighter18 said:


> Royce Gracie is the best fighter period!


Royce was great in the time he fought when every one was one dimensional but Sakuraba was better and much more well rounded Royce has horrid takedowns and standup. So in his prime against other fighters in thier primes he would get owned


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Well, Fedor will probably go down as the greatest fighter ever, and rightfully so. Still, my Bas Rutten nuthuggery will cause me to pick him as the P4P greatest fighter ever. I don't give a shit that most of his wins were in Pancrase, because I'm a huge Bas fanboy.


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

You know, Im getting sick of agreeing with Damone, but I guess that will have to wait another day. Bas is the greatest.

The Royce part though, I mean the way I see it is he was the best fighter at that time,, and at that time not everyone was that good in MMA, and it just so happened Royce had the style fit for the other people. For those who are into soccer. Pele was great and all, but he didnt have too much competition, I guess its the times that make the player.


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## snook_crook (Jan 24, 2007)

Chuck ''the iceman'' Liddell. I honestly think GSP is the best fighter in all of mma right now, matt serras lucky punch dont change that.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

plazzman said:


> You know, Im getting sick of agreeing with Damone, but I guess that will have to wait another day. Bas is the greatest.


We are two wild and crazy BAS FANBOYS! Bas was way ahead of his time, and is a blueprint for current well-rounded fighters. Bas was a guy who would learn from his losses. He gets kneebarred, he goes on to work on his submission work. Seriously, Rutten's only flaw was his TD defense, and even Bas himself has said that he needed to work on it. Hell, he makes fun of his takedown defense during Nogueira vs Kharitonov.

Sakuraba is another guy I'd consider one of the greatest. Beating the Gracie family might not be huge today, but it was freakin' groundbreaking during it's time (At least in MMA). Another blueprint for current fighters. He was the cream-of-the-crop in his prime.


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

thats true, I remember when the Gracie hunt started, a couple of my friends, and I think the only MMA fans within the same area code at the time were just livin, you have to take in consideration that theres alot to a fighter outside the ring, and Saku and Bas had just that, they were just as amazing outside the ring as inside.

I think PRIDE owes a shit load of its worth to Saku and Bas


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Bas is probably the most gracious fighter to his fans. Seriously, I've heard so many awesome Bas stories that it's not even funny.

Someone once posted on another board that he bought some of stuff from BasRutten.tv and Bas ended up giving him a ton of free shirts and an autograph picture. Oh, and shipping was free. Bas is awesome.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Bas was a beast but personally i think if Fedor and Bas both fought at the their best Fedor would win by armbar


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## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

Bas was an all time great and I love him but I just udont think theres anyway he could be considered better than Fedor realisticlly. But seeing people rate Bas as number one I can understand but GSP? Thats plain ridiculous. About as freakin ridiculous as it gets.

Fedor is the greatest ever hands down IMO. People in the top 10 would include, Bas, Wandy, Royce, Big Nog, Frank Shamrock, Sakuraba, Hughes, Chuck, and Randy.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Hughes is in my top 10, maybe top 5.

Fedor would beat Bas, but damn it, my Bas nuthuggery wants me to believe that prime Rutten would beat him.


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

good list, I agree with the GSP, WAY too early.

you know what, even if Bas lost that fight, hed still be the greater man about. and the stuff hes done for MMA in and out has been phenominal, hes definitly gotta be the most intelligent.

I think I should make a Bas profile on this forum and just rep it everyother day.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Have you seen Rutten's last fight with Funaki, plazzman? Seriously, that is my favorite Bas fight, and the ending is freakin' epic.


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## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Who are the greatest fighters in their prime in each weight class
> my personal picks
> 
> HW 206 and up: Fedor No even looks like they can beat him
> ...


Wasn't Wandy's reign 7 years?:dunno:


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Damone said:


> Hughes is in my top 10, maybe top 5.


Hughes is top 5 pnd for pnd dominace wise but i like Frank, Fedor, Wandy, Shogun, Bas, Chuck, and Randy as pnd for pnd better fighters at the very top of their games 

And before everyone gets mad for Shogun being on the list his 2005 MWGP form might be the best i've ever seen a fighter.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

> Wasn't Wandy's reign 7 years?


I think he meant reign of dominance, and it ended after the first Arona fight.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

southpaw447 said:


> Wasn't Wandy's reign 7 years?:dunno:


yea it was but he went undefeated in pride for 5 years


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

actually Damone it was kinda fuzzy to me so I just watched it, and damnit son that is awesome. the guy literaly puts on a lesson during the fight, amazing commentary, just tools with the guy. he so freakin smart.

if I ever go back to the states im finding his Dojo

he gives me even more things to love about Holland


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## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

plazzman said:


> actually Damone it was kinda fuzzy to me so I just watched it, and damnit son that is awesome. the guy literaly puts on a lesson during the fight, amazing commentary, just tools with the guy. he so freakin smart.
> 
> if I ever go back to the states im finding his Dojo
> 
> he gives me even more things to love about Holland


Bas is the man*.*


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## CroCopPride (Jan 13, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Who are the greatest fighters in their prime in each weight class
> my personal picks
> 
> HW 206 and up: Fedor No even looks like they can beat him
> ...


ilike ur picks 
but its like a no brainer


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## snook_crook (Jan 24, 2007)

Top by weight class.
Heavyweight: Randy Couture
LightHeavyWeight: Chuck Liddell
Middleweight: Dan Henderson
Welterweight: GSP, yes he is better than matt hughes
lightweight: Yves Edwards
The best of all time is Royce Gracie, but i say Chuck Liddell will supass him once he retires.


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## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

snook_crook said:


> Top by weight class.
> Heavyweight: Randy Couture
> LightHeavyWeight: Chuck Liddell
> Middleweight: Dan Henderson
> ...


Randy better than Fedor, whose faced tougher competiton than Randy and is undefeated while Couture has alot of losses? And GSP better than Hughes? Theyre 1-1 against eacher and Hughes has accomplished about 10x as much. Whoopty doo GSP won the title and he never even defended it while Hughes defended it 7x. Fedor and Hughes are the 2 biggest no brainers of any weight class.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

snook_crook said:


> Top by weight class.
> Heavyweight: Randy Couture
> LightHeavyWeight: Chuck Liddell
> Middleweight: Dan Henderson
> ...


I'm a big Randy fan but he doesn't stand a chance against Fedor.
I understand Chuck but Wanderlei at the top of that 5 year streak no one could beat him no one could even get close if Chuck keeps going for about 2 more years and beats some top lhw then i understand
Dan Henderson over Sakauraba are u fukin kidding me Henderson doesn't even defend the title Sakauraba is a legend
GSP as much as i wish this was true it's not on Matt Hughes top day he was unstoppable
i think u r wrong on Yves but since i dont relle think their r any great lw ill let u have it


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Yves is good (Used to be really good), but I'd put Rumina Sato over him. That is, if we're talking about past accomplishments and relevance.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Damone said:


> Yves is good (Used to be really good), but I'd put Rumina Sato over him. That is, if we're talking about past accomplishments and relevance.


We're talking who is the best fighter when on the very top of their game.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Yes, and I'd still put Sato on the list, because he was pretty damn great in his prime. Not many LW's you can choose because some haven't been around long enough to warrant being on the list, but Rumina freakin' Sato belongs on the list. I mean, Aoki's a stud, but it's too early.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Damone said:


> Yes, and I'd still put Sato on the list, because he was pretty damn great in his prime. Not many LW's you can choose because some haven't been around long enough to warrant being on the list, but Rumina freakin' Sato belongs on the list. I mean, Aoki's a stud, but it's too early.


Damn i didn't know really anything about Sato i just checked out some videos of him and he is crazy. Plus he fought Yves Edwards and beat him in about 10 secs so he's taking over as my #1 LW


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## DropKick (Apr 19, 2007)

asskicker said:


> Randy better than Fedor, whose faced tougher competiton than Randy and is undefeated while Couture has alot of losses? And GSP better than Hughes? Theyre 1-1 against eacher and Hughes has accomplished about 10x as much. Whoopty doo GSP won the title and he never even defended it while Hughes defended it 7x. Fedor and Hughes are the 2 biggest no brainers of any weight class.



True story, repped. :thumbsup:


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> Damn i didn't know really anything about Sato i just checked out some videos of him and he is crazy. Plus he fought Yves Edwards and beat him in about 10 secs so he's taking over as my #1 LW


Oh, I know, Rumina was awesome. I'd freakin' kill for a Rumina Sato career DVD. Well, not kill, but I want a Rumina DVD!

Frank Shamrock is a good pick, but man, anything he has done post-2000 has been horrendous. Well, he hasn't really done much except run his mouth, but still. Frank was awesome in his prime, and I think prime Frank could hang with any MW. Maybe not beat the top MW's, but definitely hold his own. Yes, I'm putting Frank in the MW division as opposed to the LHW division, because Frank was a tiny LHW.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Damone said:


> Oh, I know, Rumina was awesome. I'd freakin' kill for a Rumina Sato career DVD. Well, not kill, but I want a Rumina DVD!
> 
> Frank Shamrock is a good pick, but man, anything he has done post-2000 has been horrendous. Well, he hasn't really done much except run his mouth, but still. Frank was awesome in his prime, and I think prime Frank could hang with any MW. Maybe not beat the top MW's, but definitely hold his own. Yes, I'm putting Frank in the MW division as opposed to the LHW division, because Frank was a tiny LHW.


If you put frank in MW which i personally don't cause he was fighting at LHW when he was good but i completely understand why u would since Sakuraba fought against 205 fighters his whole career and i count him as a 185 so it makes sense Then him vs Sakauraba at their best would be very intersting I think i might pick Shamrock but that would be a great fight.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Shamrock, Royce Gracie, and Sakauraba all get bonus points in my book because they spent their whole careers fighting guys much heavier then them.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Frank vs Sakuraba is a dream fight of mine. That so would've ruled in 2000.


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## snook_crook (Jan 24, 2007)

im talking about the grestest fighters in the world right now not the greatest of all time. Gsp is a better than matt hughes so is it fair to say he is the greatest of all time. oh and fedor has not faught tuffer apponents than randy, pride is 0-4 in against the ufc in the heavyweight division. The only other good guy pride has in the heavyweight division is Cro Cop and he got knocked out in ufc. So think before you speak.


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## DropKick (Apr 19, 2007)

snook_crook said:


> pride is 0-4 in against the ufc in the heavyweight division.QUOTE]
> 
> Not true, CroCop beat Sanchez and a roided up Barnett beat Couture.


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## Pogo the Clown (Sep 21, 2006)

That Barnett win doesn't count since he hadn't even set foot in Pride when they fought.



Pogo


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## DropKick (Apr 19, 2007)

Pogo the Clown said:


> That Barnett win doesn't count since he hadn't even set foot in Pride when they fought.
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo



True, but I would consider Barnett to be more of a Pride fighter than a UFC fighter.


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## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

snook_crook said:


> im talking about the grestest fighters in the world right now not the greatest of all time. Gsp is a better than matt hughes so is it fair to say he is the greatest of all time. oh and fedor has not faught tuffer apponents than randy, pride is 0-4 in against the ufc in the heavyweight division. The only other good guy pride has in the heavyweight division is Cro Cop and he got knocked out in ufc. So think before you speak.


Where the hell do you get 0-4? And dont tell me to think before I speak because Im the one who knows what hes talking about. No one who knows mma would truly think prime Randy would be prime Fedor. Your either being biased or ignorant.

Nothing against Randy, Im not saying he COULDNT beat Fedor in his prime theres just absolutly no reason at all to rank him ahead of Fedor.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

snook_crook said:


> im talking about the grestest fighters in the world right now not the greatest of all time. Gsp is a better than matt hughes so is it fair to say he is the greatest of all time. oh and fedor has not faught tuffer apponents than randy, pride is 0-4 in against the ufc in the heavyweight division. The only other good guy pride has in the heavyweight division is Cro Cop and he got knocked out in ufc. So think before you speak.


Sorry man but at what point in Couture's Career was he better than Fedor i don't think he has ever had a fight that made me think he could beat Fedor. and i'm Picking Fedor's 2003-2005 form from when he beat Herring to right before he fought Cro Cop
I hate to tell you but Couture was never that good


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

O and Hughes in his prime would trash GSP every time i hate to say it but it's the truth.


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## wallysworld191 (Mar 28, 2007)

Bruce lee
ryu form street fighter (maybe blanka too, and cung li)
charlamagne
cesar had a good beat down
the greek pankration guys
moses was nasty with a stick
the buddist monk that start the shaolin temple
ares/mars
hamurabi was mean with a tablet
Randy couture
muhammad ali
muhammed
david
chuck liddell
sakuraba
fedor
Royce gracie
Kimura
yoda
i think the devil has a killer tail whip too
anyway...i think thats enough


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Charlemagne padded his record with cans.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

asskicker said:


> Nothing against Randy, Im not saying he COULDNT beat Fedor in his prime theres just absolutly no reason at all to rank him ahead of Fedor.


"Never doubt captain America":laugh: Nobody really stands a chance against Fedor right now, but I like Randy's as good if not better than anybody else. I always liked Fedor but seeing him escape Nog's submissions one after the other while pounding his face was unreal, I don't think anybody could have done that. Don't forget though, Randy started mma at a really late age. Imagine if he started cross training with wrestling at say 20-24 

I hate making lists but here it goes.

10.)Frank Shamrock
9.)Royce (started it all and was the fighter of his time period)
8.)Bas Rutten
7.)Kazushi Sakuraba
6.)Chuck Lidell
5.)Matt Hughes
4.)Wanderlei Silva 
3.)Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera (best submission skills, best combacks, and who else on earth besides Hunt could have lasted through those shots.)
2.)Randy Couture 
1.) FEDOR


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

LHW Ken Shamrock He was a monser
WW Matt hughes 
no weight class Dan Severn 
HW Randy Has he even peaked yet?
MW Rich Franklin


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

americanfighter said:


> LHW Ken Shamrock He was a monser
> WW Matt hughes
> no weight class Dan Severn
> HW Randy Has he even peaked yet?
> MW Rich Franklin


Again with the Randy thing he wouldn't be able to beat Fedor and im a Randy fan. 

I agree on Hughes

Severn was a great fighter but their r alot of guy who could beat him on his best day Wandy, Frank, Bas, even Ken

On rich franklin now that i think about it it makes some sense from the Shamrock fight to the Quarry fight he looked real good but i would take 2000 Frank Shamrock and Sakauraba over him

Now to the dumbest thing i've ever read there is no way in hell that Ken Shamrock on his best day would beat Wandy,Liddell,Shogun,Frank Shamrock or i hate to say it even Tito. truthfully if you take the worst performances of Shogun'S Career it was good enough to beat Ken on his best day Ken shamrock as the greatest ever you have to be joking


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I'd put Guy Mezger ahead of Ken Shamrock, personally.


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## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

LMAO at Dan Severn. The only all time list hes gettin on is worst striking.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Severn still choking cans in his 50's:laugh:


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Dan Severn vs Kimo (Pride 1) is a fight that truly display's how awful Severn's striking is. Either Severn thought he could stand with Kimo (Who also sucks at striking), or he's the best comedian in the world. Either way, I wasn't laughing, I was just bored. Well, I sort of laughed when Bas got frustrated on commentary.

Dan Severn is a guy who you remember as being a complete badass, but then you actually watch his fights, and realize he's the total opposite. UFC 5 was his shining moment.


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## DropKick (Apr 19, 2007)

Damone said:


> Dan Severn is a guy who you remember as being a complete badass, but then you actually watch his fights, and realize he's the total opposite. UFC 5 was his shining moment.


Dan Severn suplexing that guy repeatedly is still one of the best MMA moments ever. Also, he trained Don Frye who we all know is a bad ass.:thumbsup:


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Meh, Frye got cooler when he got away from Severn.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Severn fears Frye's mustache.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Damone's top 10.

1. Bas Rutten.
2. Fedor.
3. Kazushi Sakuraba.
4. Frank Shamrock.
5. Matt Hughes.
6. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira.
7. Randy Couture.
8. Igor Vovchanchyn.
9. Don Frye's moustache.
10. Maurice Smith.

This list is totally biased. Really, really biased.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

I was expecting Ken's burns and BJ Penn...ah well. Igor ruled too. He was hela fun to watch and Maurice Smith/Coleman is one of the my favourites. Mo is like the first striker that stuffed the takedown, well that my noobish mind can remember.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Coleman vs Smith is the quintessential "Striker vs grappler" fight. Really, that's one of my all time favorites. I forgot about Frye's 'stache, Ken's 'burns, and BJ Penn. I should never forget these 3. In fact, I'm going to replace Wanderlei with Frye's mustache. I know, I know, it's a little low on the list.


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## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

FreeFighter18 said:


> Royce Gracie is the best fighter period!


lol good one. You were joking right?


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## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

kamikaze145 said:


> lol good one. You were joking right?


For his time you could make the arguement he was. But in no way was he the best *PERIOD*.


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## anton (Oct 15, 2006)




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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I thought this was about the "Greatest fighters ever?" Now, if we were to do a "Most disappointing fighters ever," then Vitor would definitely be at the top of that list.


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## anton (Oct 15, 2006)

the sole fact that he continued fighting during and after the kidnapping and murder of his sister makes him a great 'fighter' in my eyes.

just throwing another name out there...


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Damone said:


> I thought this was about the "Greatest fighters ever?" Now, if we were to do a "Most disappointing fighters ever," then Vitor would definitely be at the top of that list.


The sad thing is you could make an arguement that when Vitor was at the top of his game he was a great fighter but he just never put it all together truthfully he had everything you need to be a top fighter but he never showed up against good fighters beside his win over Silva.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Belfort was just way too inconsistent. That, and the fact that he had all the talent in the world, but hardly put it together, keeps him off the list. To be considered one of the greats, you have to fight with all your talents given to you, and you must accomplish something. Belfort did none of these, and him winning the LHW title (Something he didn't even deserve) doesn't cut it, since it should've been a NC. Belfort was a mental midget, and a total "What if he fought to all of his abilities?" fighter. He has choked way too many times.


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## JawShattera (Nov 1, 2006)

anton said:


> the sole fact that he continued fighting during and after the kidnapping and murder of his sister makes him a great 'fighter' in my eyes.
> 
> just throwing another name out there...


not really you have to take what life dishes out sometimes even if thats the loss of a loved one


i know of fighters with bad arthritis, diseases, guys that lost loved ones and that doesent make them great fighters


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## aGenius (Feb 5, 2007)

anton said:


> the sole fact that he continued fighting during and after the kidnapping and murder of his sister makes him a great 'fighter' in my eyes.
> 
> just throwing another name out there...


i could understand him taking some time away from mma after something like this, a la Michael Jordan. but Jordan is a true warrior and competitor, Vitor is not. maybe he's just too emotional, shit happens.


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## anton (Oct 15, 2006)

aGenius said:


> i could understand him taking some time away from mma after something like this, a la Michael Jordan. but Jordan is a true warrior and competitor, Vitor is not. maybe he's just too emotional, shit happens.


you have no idea what you're talking about...

vitor continued while his sis was kidnapped and after he knew she was dead. he didn't stop...

i have a feeling this is the first time you've ever heard of this incident or vitor belfort for that matter rofl.


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## aGenius (Feb 5, 2007)

anton said:


> you have no idea what you're talking about...
> 
> vitor continued while his sis was kidnapped and after he knew she was dead. he didn't stop...
> 
> i have a feeling this is the first time you've ever heard of this incident or vitor belfort for that matter rofl.


i thought u wern't going to be a prick anymore. rofl!


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## anton (Oct 15, 2006)

aGenius said:


> i thought u wern't going to be a prick anymore. rofl!


first of all, what are you talking about?

secondly, you come here acting like you have the slightest clue what you're talking about, which obviously you do not, and i called you out on it.

how does that make me a prick?


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## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

asskicker said:


> For his time you could make the arguement he was. But in no way was he the best *PERIOD*.


My bad, I though it was asking about who the greatest fighter ever was, like if all the greats fought in a tournament who would win. 
To answer the question though i would say you can't go against fedor. Here are my top guys overall
1. Fedor
2. Chuck
3. Wandy
4. Randy
5. Hughes
and i can definately see how you could make an argument for Bas also. By the way, i noticed on shamrock's record he beat bas, i believe twice. How the heck did that happen? Does anyone have a link to those fights because i cannot imagine Bas losing to Ken Shamrock. I like shamrock and he was great in his prime, i just cant see him beating Bas


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## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

Damone said:


> Belfort was just way too inconsistent. That, and the fact that he had all the talent in the world, but hardly put it together, keeps him off the list. To be considered one of the greats, you have to fight with all your talents given to you, and you must accomplish something. Belfort did none of these, and him winning the LHW title (Something he didn't even deserve) doesn't cut it, since it should've been a NC. Belfort was a mental midget, and a total "What if he fought to all of his abilities?" fighter. He has choked way too many times.


I agree completely, Vitor is fun to watch and has shown some flashes of brilliance, but that is all. For him to even be mentioned as one of the greatest is absurd. First off, besides the BS Randy eye cut thing, he is not a champion. Also, you have to consistently beat the other top fighters in the world to be great and he has never done that. Is Vitor done? I do not think so but i do not think he will ever reach his potential and as of right now should not be in the running for greatest fighter ever. He is not even top 5 ever in the 205 pound weight class IMO


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## valheruking (May 13, 2007)

lol how can people say Royce is the best ever or rank Randy above fedor in the HW division,i know its your opinion but, i dont know, seems unfounded.
I believe Bas lost to Ken twice as he hadn't developed his ground game enough at that point.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Even though I hate watching the Ken fights, they did make Bas a much better fighter. He learned from his mistakes, and he was never subbed again. Still, my Bas fanboy-ism causes me to avoid those 2 fights like the plague.



> He is not even top 5 ever in the 205 pound weight class IMO


He's not even top 10 in his weight class. I gave up on Vitor because he has disappointed me so many times.


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## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

Damone said:


> Even though I hate watching the Ken fights, they did make Bas a much better fighter. He learned from his mistakes, and he was never subbed again. Still, my Bas fanboy-ism causes me to avoid those 2 fights like the plague.
> 
> 
> 
> He's not even top 10 in his weight class. I gave up on Vitor because he has disappointed me so many times.


No shit Bas, Chuck, Wand, Frank, Tito, Sakuraba, Rampage, Shogun, the list goes on theres alot of 205 pounders alone who are and were overall better than Vitor.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

asskicker said:


> No shit Bas, Chuck, Wand, Frank, Tito, Sakuraba, Rampage, Shogun, the list goes on theres alot of 205 pounders alone who are and were overall better than Vitor.


The sad thing is almost none of those guys are more talented then Vitor. everytime i talk about Vitor i get depressed because he could have really been a top fighter of this generation and he never put it together he's a mental midget.


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

you cant rate a fighter based on woulda, coulda's, and shoulda's. It's what the guy has done and is still capable to do when needed.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

In his prime ken was the best. I mean look at what he did to bas. 
YouTube - Ken Shamrock vs Bas Rutten

An he destroyed Royce the second time they fought.

Hell he even beat Dan

Like him or not you have to admit he was the best in his prime. he had so much strength and could mussel guys around plus he had an Iron chin.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

plazzman said:


> you cant rate a fighter based on woulda, coulda's, and shoulda's. It's what the guy has done and is still capable to do when needed.


we are talking about fighters in their prime not today


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## NikosCC (May 16, 2007)

Rickson Gracie
Royce Gracie
Bas Rutten
Ken Slamcock
Randy Couture
Matt Hughes
Cro cop
Fedor Emelianenko


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

americanfighter said:


> In his prime ken was the best. I mean look at what he did to bas.
> YouTube - Ken Shamrock vs Bas Rutten
> 
> An he destroyed Royce the second time they fought.
> ...


One he is not even the best fighter in his family i know Frank is adopted but im making a point. Then Wanderlei Silva was much better than Ken. As was Sakuraba. and Shogun and Liddell right now are better then Ken ever was as is Fedor so no Ken wasn't the best even on top of his game


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

americanfighter said:


> In his prime ken was the best. I mean look at what he did to bas.
> YouTube - Ken Shamrock vs Bas Rutten


I hate you for posting that.

Yeah, Frank was worlds better than Ken.


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## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

americanfighter said:


> In his prime ken was the best. I mean look at what he did to bas.
> YouTube - Ken Shamrock vs Bas Rutten
> 
> An he destroyed Royce the second time they fought.
> ...


Ken was like maybe top 15 in his prime.


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

asskicker said:


> Ken was like maybe top 15 in his prime.


Id say his prime was Pancrase and early UFC, so, id say the dude was muuuch higher then 15th, prob top 5 at the time.

King of Pancrase
Ufc Superfight champ

those are pretty good for a top 15er


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## prockz (May 15, 2007)

p4p UFC: TBA
p4p Boxing: Sugar Ray Robinson.


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## frankinaug (Jul 12, 2006)

Bas Rutten, Royce Gracie both changed the way the sport is fought. I also agree with the Ken Shamrock from his peak condition was amazing, but after he got out of shape and older it just got sad.


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