# Anderson Silva doesn’t think he lost to Chris Weidman



## BlueLander (Apr 11, 2010)

> Anderson Silva suffered a gruesome injury in his rematch with Chris Weidman at UFC 168, but he doesn’t consider his last fight a loss.
> 
> The former UFC middleweight champion broke his left leg when kicking Chris Weidman on Dec. 28 in Las Vegas, Nev., but is confident he will be able to fight again one day. And when he does, he won’t enter the Octagon feeling he’s coming off back-to-back losses to Weidman.
> 
> ...


Source: http://www.mmafighting.com/2014/1/12/5302580/anderson-silva-doesnt-think-he-lost-to-chris-weidman


On an unrelated note, glad to be back on the best MMA forum around! :thumb01:


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Welcome back BlueLander  great to see you around here again!


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Yeah ok anderson, face it weidman beat you twice he's better than you and checking kicks isn't an underground technique it's muay thai 101 and one of the first things you learn.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

And the fall from grace begins....

Not so easy to laugh and giggle and joke around all the time when you just lost the belt, got KTFO got dominated on the ground twice got legit dropped and then break your leg all fighting the same guy.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

*Insert pic of Vin Diesel from The Fast and The Furious winning is winning*

But really I would be perfectly fine with a third fight.


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

That's kind of sad really.


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## Swp (Jan 2, 2010)

Its someone here that its not american or brazilian and disagree with what Silva said in this interview ?


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

From his perspective I'm sure he doesn't feel like he really "lost", cause his leg snapped. It would be a hard pill to swallow, even if it is reality.

I do wonder though, what was his thoughts after the Cote fight? Did he say that he didn't think Cote lost? Does anyone have an interview of him after the fight commenting on this?


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Well maybe they thought he was being carried out on a float.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Geezuz Bluelander...you've been gone too long.

I like his mindset. Shows he's still mentally there. I mean he could go the other way which he did after the first fight. 

It's too bad GSP didn't want to fight so then he was obligated to defend the belt.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

M.C said:


> From his perspective I'm sure he doesn't feel like he really "lost", cause his leg snapped. It would be a hard pill to swallow, even if it is reality.
> 
> I do wonder though, what was his thoughts after the Cote fight? Did he say that he didn't think Cote lost? Does anyone have an interview of him after the fight commenting on this?


http://www.mmasportsmag.com/interview_anderson_silva2.htm

Only thing I could find. IMO you can tell he was disappointed with the outcome. He never says "he lost" or "I beat him".


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Regardless of how the fight went, i wouldn't call winning via injury really losing either. The fight ended because he got injured, was unable to continue not that the other guy bested him. From his perspective, you can't blame him for thinking like this. 

Can't wait to see Weidman the champ against a different opponent finally tbh.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Im willing to say Silva didn't lose as long as I can say Weidman won.


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## JWP (Jun 4, 2007)

war anderson


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

The way i see it Anderson Lost and Weidman won.

But Weidman didnt Beat Silva. Not in their second fight anyway.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Oh dear... who wants to bet Anderson never gets the title shot after losing to a contender upon his return?


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## Swp (Jan 2, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> The way i see it Anderson Lost and Weidman won.
> 
> But Weidman didnt Beat Silva. Not in their second fight anyway.


Goddamned , I was saying the same thing in other threads , and people acted like I was insane for saying this ...



Killz said:


> Oh dear... who wants to bet Anderson never gets the title shot after losing to a contender upon his return?



He will but by that time Machida will be champ )


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## King Daisuke (Mar 25, 2013)

Swp said:


> Its someone here that its not american or brazilian and disagree with what Silva said in this interview ?


I'm neither and I think Anderson is full of shit. He hasn't been able to do absolutely anything to put Weidman in any danger, so no, he wasn't going to win that fight either.

Go home Anderson, you're drunk.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

As much as I feel Anserson lost both fights legitimately, Im glad this is how Silva feels about it. This is exactly how he needs to be thinking if hes serious about coming back. 

Good luck, Anderson. :hug:


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Here's another interpretation of the interview - courtesy of reddit  Just adds a few details and has a different perspective. Translation can be a tricky thing.



> Anderson is still in A LOT OF PAIN, says he can't even have a full night of sleep. He avoids taking a lot of painkillers because he doesn't want to get addicted to them.
> He says this is the worst moment of his career, that he never came back to his home injured, not even with a scratch and that it is sad (some tear drops fall from his eyes here) to see his kids watching him recover without being able to do much.
> 
> They show the kicking moment and Anderson admits his mistake of kicking without setting it up with punches to distract Weidman. Says that Weidman was protecting his body/head waiting for a higher kick and lifted his leg to defend the leg kick out of pure instinct. Says that the kick was so strong that Weidman gets completely out of balance even after checking it. Says that he heard the sound of the cracking bone and then started feeling the unbearable pain, that he wasn't sure if the fracture was open and that he just kept saying to the guy that was near him on the floor to "put it in place". From the octagon to the hospital, Anderson says that he was really scared that he wouldn't be able to walk anymore or something like that, lot of things going through his mind.
> ...


*Source: Reddit*


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## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

I think the leg break was a fluke (since it rarely happens) but Weidman won both of those fights. The main thing I disagree with here is Anderson saying the check was instinctive and not something he trained. 

That's like him saying his front kick to Vitors chin was instinctive, not something he learned from training. Load of crap.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

MagiK11 said:


> I think the leg break was a fluke (since it rarely happens) but Weidman won both of those fights. The main thing I disagree with here is Anderson saying the check was instinctive and not something he trained.
> 
> That's like him saying his front kick to Vitors chin was instinctive, not something he learned from training. Load of crap.


Yah I was kinda thinking the same, but then I thought you know as a fighter he may not have known that they were training for that leg check specifically. So from his perspective at the time that's what he may have felt. Sour grapes. Could be. But who hasn't lost to that "someone" in sports or video games where you just can't give credit to because of your ultra competitive nature...hehe. On the flip side he could say he lost fair and square with a defeatist mentality. If that's the case I don't think he'd come back as mentally strong. What makes a champion is his mental DNA. Same with Weidman. He felt that Anderson could not hurt em and that translated into two shocking wins. Anderson must have felt the same way over the years because contrary to what Chael said I've never seen Anderson look defeated. Same with Fedor up until the Werdum and BF loss. 

I've come to accept that Weidman is the current champion. I will now commence with voodoo dolls. 

Lolz!


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

All I know is this, all your dirty heathens get on your knees and worship the new era and the greats known as chris weidman and johnny "jesus" hendricks


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

Budhisten said:


> Here's another interpretation of the interview - courtesy of reddit  Just adds a few details and has a different perspective. Translation can be a tricky thing.
> 
> 
> 
> *Source: Reddit*


It's crazy how the difference in interpretation can completely change the tone of the interview. 

The reddit version seems more plausible... almost like the MMA fighting one was half the store and the reddit version filled in the blanks to make it actually make sense.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

If Lawler KOs Hendricks, I may die laughing. Either way, it was rather grand of GSP to hand over the throne to a man who will never truly be able to call himself THE King. But regardless, Hendricks will serve just fine as a paper WW champion. 

Back on topic, I've never felt that losing via injury was a loss in the traditional sense of the word. And I'm not inclined to think that now simply because we're talking about Anderson Silva. But whether it was a freak injury or not, Weidman deserves his share of credit for skillfully checking leg kicks in a time where many, many fighters simply eat them, usually en route to losing the fight.

Regardless of how each outcome came about, I think it safe to say that Weidman, over the course of two fights, has demonstrated that he has Anderson's number.


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

John8204 said:


> Well maybe they thought he was being carried out on a float.


That's cold, but kind of funny.


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## MCMAP Wizzard (Feb 5, 2012)

Canadian Psycho said:


> If Lawler KOs Hendricks, I may die laughing. Either way, it was rather grand of GSP to hand over the throne to a man who will never truly be able to call himself THE King. But regardless, Hendricks will serve just fine as a paper WW champion.


GSP has enough honor to realize that he lost the fight, was completely decimated in fact, and stepped aside like a man. Gonna be redeeming watching Hendricks claim what is rightfully his.

On the topic, obviously Anderson is super competitive and has trouble saying he was outclassed. Can't blame him for that, all fighters have an ego and it really sucks to get beat. And we need to consider that Anderson's position not only as champion but as one of the top P4P fighters ever made his fall hurt exponentially worse. Hopefully he recovers well and we get to see him back in action.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

I really hope we get to see a 3rd fight between these guys. Just like Silva I won't be happy until we do.

Can we drop the trained for deadly leg kick bs though... He saw a telegraphed kick coming and checked it, any fighter not name Rampage would have done the same thing...


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

No. If GSP was "decimated", there would be no question who lost/won. He'd have either lost 4-5 rounds to none or been finished. That would be decimation, and no amount of hyperbole on your end is going to change that fact. 

If you want to see decimation and destruction, watch Bader vs. Perosh, or Penn vs. Sanchez, or... the list goes on. Fighters who get "destroyed" don't win fights, even with the most ignorant of judges at the helm.


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

He can think that all he wants. But in my opinion Anderson going down the way he did actually helped him in terms of saving face. Because Weidman beat him decisively the first go around, and this was looking no different as Weidman took Silva down easily and also rocked him. But since the fight ended the way it did, there are people who don't think of it as a loss, as opposed to if Anderson had got KO'd again.


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

I'm glad to see Anderson thinking positively... I just hope we get a true representation of the greatest of all time when he comes back, and not a broken down version that up and comers build a name after.

He's going to be gone long enough for the at least three if not four or five middle weight title fights to take place. Hell, his return fight may very well be against Weidman, and it may not be for a title at that point in time. The middle weight division is mean right now... I personally think Lyoto is well on his way to capturing his second UFC title.


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## MMATycoon (Aug 15, 2011)

I really want to see Silva fight again, he can still rock.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

MMATycoon said:


> I really want to see Silva fight again, he can still rock.


No, he is done... chin and confidence have both gone. It was pretty obvious from watching the fight.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Lol... You guys crack me up.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Why are people acting like Anderson said something wrong here? Weidman checked a kick, and Anderson's leg broke. It's unfortunate, and it WAS a mistake. He thinks he would have won...he is also the greatest MMA fighter of all time who submitted a guy with 30 seconds left to go. Of course he is confident that he can pull something out the bag.

I do want Anderson to retire though. Him getting dropped at such a standard and unimpressive punch in the second fight was it for me.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Agree with Clyde, Andy said nothing wrong. He didn't claim to have beaten Chris just that he didn't feel beaten. Freak accident leg break will do that. It isn't decisive and he isn't disputing the first fight or the first round of the 2nd fight.

Chris to me looked like the better fighter in both, but I still feel we lack closure.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Anderson lost the fight so badly it's like a mass delusion going on here. He was winging his punches so slowly, so inaccurately and with such little chance of hurting Weidman that I was shocked. If people think Anderson wasn't losing the fight or anything other than him getting dominated they need to rewatch the fight, Anderson looked like an amateur. 

I'm not saying Anderson is no good or anything like that, Weidman just has his number and made Anderson look like a fool. Chris had the range down so well that even had Anderson's strikes landed clean they would have done nothing, there is no world in which Anderson was ever going to win either of the 2 fights, he got beat so embarrassingly badly I hope someone in his camp tells him he needs to change his style if he ever fights Weidman again. I'm a huge Silva fan too, big fan of unorthodox fighters but there is some serious denial going on here, Anderson didn't just get beat he got schooled twice. The fact that he won't even admit he was losing is troublesome, that's a huge character flaw, not an advantage. I mean he almost got finished in the first round. The minute you stop analyzing yourself and start believing you are unbeatable is when you start to slip.


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## MCMAP Wizzard (Feb 5, 2012)

rabakill said:


> Anderson lost the fight so badly it's like a mass delusion going on here. He was winging his punches so slowly, so inaccurately and with such little chance of hurting Weidman that I was shocked. If people think Anderson wasn't losing the fight or anything other than him getting dominated they need to rewatch the fight, Anderson looked like an amateur.
> 
> I'm not saying Anderson is no good or anything like that, Weidman just has his number and made Anderson look like a fool. Chris had the range down so well that even had Anderson's strikes landed clean they would have done nothing, there is no world in which Anderson was ever going to win either of the 2 fights, he got beat so embarrassingly badly I hope someone in his camp tells him he needs to change his style if he ever fights Weidman again. I'm a huge Silva fan too, big fan of unorthodox fighters but there is some serious denial going on here, Anderson didn't just get beat he got schooled twice. The fact that he won't even admit he was losing is troublesome, that's a huge character flaw, not an advantage. I mean he almost got finished in the first round. The minute you stop analyzing yourself and start believing you are unbeatable is when you start to slip.


^^^:thumbsup: precisely


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

If he comes back he should fight Cote then. haha

Perfect post rabakill ^^


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

No one is disputing that Weidman was winning the second fight. It wouldn't matter if Silva was dominating the second fight. The leg break was just an extremely unsatisfying way for the fight to end. We all just want to know what would have happened if a random freak accident, that has only happened once before, had not occurred.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

No_Mercy said:


> Yah I was kinda thinking the same, but then I thought you know as a fighter he may not have known that they were training for that leg check specifically. So from his perspective at the time that's what he may have felt. Sour grapes. Could be. But who hasn't lost to that "someone" in sports or video games where you just can't give credit to because of your ultra competitive nature...hehe. On the flip side he could say he lost fair and square with a defeatist mentality. If that's the case I don't think he'd come back as mentally strong. What makes a champion is his mental DNA. Same with Weidman. He felt that Anderson could not hurt em and that translated into two shocking wins. Anderson must have felt the same way over the years because contrary to what Chael said I've never seen Anderson look defeated. Same with Fedor up until the Werdum and BF loss.
> 
> I've come to accept that Weidman is the current champion. I will now commence with voodoo dolls.
> 
> Lolz!


The gripping hand is this: Weidman was the one who was able to learn from the first fight and make the adjustment to stifle the one form offense Anderson had limited success with. Anderson was unable to make adjustments or come up with a new gameplan despite being the one who lost the first fight, and was the on whom the onus of taking the initiative was left. He can have all the confidence in the world, but if he has lost the ability to adapt (which, lets face it, he hasn't really needed in quite a while) he has nothing more to offer Chris Weidman.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

rabakill said:


> Anderson lost the fight so badly it's like a mass delusion going on here. He was winging his punches so slowly, so inaccurately and with such little chance of hurting Weidman that I was shocked. If people think Anderson wasn't losing the fight or anything other than him getting dominated they need to rewatch the fight, Anderson looked like an amateur.
> 
> I'm not saying Anderson is no good or anything like that, Weidman just has his number and made Anderson look like a fool. Chris had the range down so well that even had Anderson's strikes landed clean they would have done nothing, there is no world in which Anderson was ever going to win either of the 2 fights, he got beat so embarrassingly badly I hope someone in his camp tells him he needs to change his style if he ever fights Weidman again. I'm a huge Silva fan too, big fan of unorthodox fighters but there is some serious denial going on here, Anderson didn't just get beat he got schooled twice. The fact that he won't even admit he was losing is troublesome, that's a huge character flaw, not an advantage. I mean he almost got finished in the first round. The minute you stop analyzing yourself and start believing you are unbeatable is when you start to slip.


It's funny. I've seen people get dropped and beat up on the ground A LOT, and most of the time I don't even remember it, let alone consider them getting beat "so badly". 

And there was NO way? This is MMA mate. I actually believe Anderson has HUGE opportunities to front kick down the middle, as Weidman was getting out of striking range with his hands down a bit. One of them lands, you never know.

I also don't feel like he got beat "so embarrassingly". I feel that Chael Sonnen was better than Weidman on the feet Vs Anderson (Sonnen first fight), although of course not the better fighter on the feet. Weidman was landing some okay shots in the first fight, but also getting hard leg kicks dug in. He then was missing quite a bit, and Anderson forced him to stay standing by clowning him, exposing Weidman's mentality slightly. Weidman then KOed him. Flash KO, big shot, fair enough. I wouldn't say getting flash KOed for the first time in 16 fights is "embarrassing", although perhaps how Anderson allowed it to happen. Anderson them managed to thai clinch Weidman in the second fight, again exposing Weidman's lack of getting out of his opponent's strengths and having "something to prove". The real embarrassing thing was getting hurt so badly by the punch he did.

Outside of that, Weidman was clearly the most impressive in both fights. I feel Anderson has two aspects of his game to be embarrassed about from them; his over confidence and his chin. Besides that, I feel he fought extremely intelligently.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Sports_Nerd said:


> The gripping hand is this: Weidman was the one who was able to learn from the first fight and make the adjustment to stifle the one form offense Anderson had limited success with. Anderson was unable to make adjustments or come up with a new gameplan despite being the one who lost the first fight, and was the on whom the onus of taking the initiative was left. He can have all the confidence in the world, but if he has lost the ability to adapt (which, lets face it, he hasn't really needed in quite a while) he has nothing more to offer Chris Weidman.


So going back to, and securing, the thai clinch for the first time since he took on Franklin wasn't an adjustment? He got dropped by a pretty bad punch, but none the less he made a huge adjustment and went back to his roots, securing it almost immediately.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Ape City said:


> No one is disputing that Weidman was winning the second fight. It wouldn't matter if Silva was dominating the second fight. The leg break was just an extremely unsatisfying way for the fight to end. We all just want to know what would have happened if a random freak accident, that has only happened once before, had not occurred.


Exactly.

I have no doubts Weidman WOULD have one, but it would have been nice to see it conclusive. Any fight that ends like that just feels anticlimactic to me.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

I have never thought Anderson as a guy with a weak chin... I'm wondering if Chuck Liddell syndrome is starting to set in?


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

amoosenamedhank said:


> I have never thought Anderson as a guy with a weak chin... I'm wondering if Chuck Liddell syndrome is starting to set in?


Anderson was just a master of rolling with the punches. Even watch the Weidman KO combo. Those punches landed, but rubbed right off his chin. The punch was just clean as shit, and the GnP finish is what ended it really.

But in the second fight, I was just so disappointed that a little knock behind the ear put the great one down. It can happen, Gillard Vs Cerrone comes to mind, but for Anderson to be in that deep water from a small shot, I hated it.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

" The kick was so strong he lost balance."

This needs to be changed to

"The kick was so strong I broke my leg"

Shut up Silva you lost twice and never once in 4 rounds did you ever have Chris in danger at least honorable in defeat.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

americanfighter said:


> Shut up Silva you lost twice and never once in 4 rounds did you ever have Chris in danger at least honorable in defeat.


2.5 rounds.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> But in the second fight, I was just so disappointed that a little knock behind the ear put the great one down. It can happen, Gillard Vs Cerrone comes to mind, but for Anderson to be in that deep water from a small shot, I hated it.


Actually, that kind of shot behind the ear would drop almost everyone as that's where you strike the equilibrium. How it was placed, Silva couldn't roll with it (it was different to the Rivera fight, where Rivera aimed at Silva's jaw which gave Silva the opportunity to roll with the punches). That was quite an accomplishment by Weidman and it could even be that he aimed on purpose at that spot as he already did (with less success) in the first fight during his GnP.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> So going back to, and securing, the thai clinch for the first time since he took on Franklin wasn't an adjustment? He got dropped by a pretty bad punch, but none the less he made a huge adjustment and went back to his roots, securing it almost immediately.


No, it wasn't an adjustment. Not against a wrestler of Weidman's caliber. It was regression, not advancement.


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## Ludinator (Mar 15, 2012)

Some of you guys make me laugh.

Is Weidman the champion?, yes. 

Did he beat Anderson twice?, No.

That second fight ended by injury. I don't give a flying sh** if Weidman was beating him for 2 rounds one fight, and 2 rounds in the first fight.... Which is pretty stupid for people to be even posting. To say Weidman was gonna win is unreal, this is Anderon Silva were talking about. The greatest mma fighter to ender the cage. It's good to see him talk like this, it's shows he still has fire, shows he wants back in there.

Would you people consider Sonnen the champion, if the Jones fight got stopped?.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

good and he can get crushed by weidman again and then more excuses and the fight him again and then more excuses and the process can be done over and over and over until you people are too stumped to use anymore excuses.


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## Ludinator (Mar 15, 2012)

UFC_OWNS said:


> good and he can get crushed by weidman again and then more excuses and the fight him again and then more excuses and the process can be done over and over and over until you people are too stumped to use anymore excuses.


Another Silva hater.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Ludinator said:


> Some of you guys make me laugh.
> 
> Is Weidman the champion?, yes.
> 
> ...


If he was tooling/dominating Jones and rocks him in the first round and then in round two he goes for a takedown and Jones toe breaks... yes i would consider Sonnen champion. 

Not to mention Weidman was going into the fight as champ not challenger. So for it to be the same scenario there would have to have been a fight between Jones/Sonnen prior were Sonnen knocks Jones out and takes his title.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Ludinator said:


> Some of you guys make me laugh.
> 
> Is Weidman the champion?, yes.
> 
> ...


thanks for letting us know you don't know anything about fighting.


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

First of all I'm not a MMA fighter. But if I was I don't care how bad I lost 1/5 of a fight just to have my leg break for only the second time in UFC history on a leg kick. Their is no way you could tell I lost that fight in mind.

Anyone who has served in any-kind of combat would have this mind set.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Sounds like Anderson hasn't learned a single thing from those back to back losses, evident by his final quote in that article "Why has this happened to me". It was supposed to humble and ground you Anderson and to deflate your ego to make you become a better fighter and a better person.

The way I see both fights is Anderson getting absolutely demolished in both of them. He cracked his shin with the first kick and then snapped it almost in half with the second, no fluke there mate. He literally got destroyed in both outings but his ego won't allow him to accept it. Sad really. As long as he keeps the same mindset, he'll lose to Chris Weidman again, and again in brutal fashion.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

I don't think Hendo lost to Anderson so I know exactly what he means here.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Voiceless said:


> Actually, that kind of shot behind the ear would drop almost everyone as that's where you strike the equilibrium. How it was placed, Silva couldn't roll with it (it was different to the Rivera fight, where Rivera aimed at Silva's jaw which gave Silva the opportunity to roll with the punches). That was quite an accomplishment by Weidman and it could even be that he aimed on purpose at that spot as he already did (with less success) in the first fight during his GnP.


It barley hit him though, and it wasn't thrown hard. Barley anyone drops someone by throwing over hands from the defensive thai clinch position. Weidman did what people always do, and Anderson was nearly out from it. Also, don't give Weidman credit for "where it was placed". He didn't have some master plan to punch Anderson behind the ears.



Sports_Nerd said:


> No, it wasn't an adjustment. Not against a wrestler of Weidman's caliber. It was regression, not advancement.


What calibre is that? Because Anderson managed to shoot right back up when he was taken down, and was able to defend the takedowns in the first fight (second round). Don't get me wrong, Weidman is a solid wrestler, but he didn't pose half the wrestling threat that Sonnen did. Anderson was confident he would be able to get his knees off without them being caught, and you don't know, maybe he would have.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

TheNinja said:


> First of all I'm not a MMA fighter. But if I was I don't care how bad I lost 1/5 of a fight just to have my leg break for only the second time in UFC history on a leg kick. Their is no way you could tell I lost that fight in mind.
> 
> Anyone who has served in any-kind of combat would have this mind set.


No, they wouldn't. A smart fighter would realize he made 3 huge mistakes in 2 fights. 

1. hands down taunting without moving his feet
2. tries to kick the leg full speed without any setup whatsoever and cracks the bone
3. tries to kick the leg full speed again without any setup again and breaks the bone

I guarantee the large majority of fighters north of the Brazilian border realize Anderson lost 2 fights because of mistakes he made that were exploited, not by any fluke or stroke of luck. Kicking someone's leg when they see it coming a mile away is like trying to go for a takedown without any setup, it doesn't work and it's easily countered. These weren't small mistakes, they were huge mistakes an amateur makes or someone with an ego so big he thinks regular mma logic doesn't apply to him.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Ludinator said:


> Would you people consider Sonnen the champion, if the Jones fight got stopped?.


That's actually a very good comparison, because gnawing Jon's big toe off was the perfect counter for him putting his foot that far up Chael's ass.



ClydebankBlitz said:


> It barley hit him though, and it wasn't thrown hard. Barley anyone drops someone by throwing over hands from the defensive thai clinch position. Weidman did what people always do, and Anderson was nearly out from it. Also, don't give Weidman credit for "where it was placed". He didn't have some master plan to punch Anderson behind the ears.
> 
> 
> 
> What calibre is that? Because Anderson managed to shoot right back up when he was taken down, and was able to defend the takedowns in the first fight (second round). Don't get me wrong, Weidman is a solid wrestler, but he didn't pose half the wrestling threat that Sonnen did. Anderson was confident he would be able to get his knees off without them being caught, and you don't know, maybe he would have.


You are hopeless. Yes, I will give Weidman credit for throwing a punch and landing it where it has the greatest effect, you ridiculous dude.

And Anderson was able to "pop back up" when Weidman gave up position to try for the leglock finish. and was able to stuff one more takedown attempt in the first fight before Weidman knocked him out.

And he never posed any real threat with the Thai clinch, because seconds later he was on the ground. It's a bad strategy against a good wrestler, which Silva knows. When someone reverts back to their bread and butter when it plays into their opponents' strengths they're not strategizing, they're desperate.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

http://mmajunkie.com/2014/01/chris-...minishing-ufc-legacy-with-post-fight-excuses/


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## Swp (Jan 2, 2010)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Sounds like Anderson hasn't learned a single thing from those back to back losses, evident by his final quote in that article "Why has this happened to me". It was supposed to humble and ground you Anderson and to deflate your ego to make you become a better fighter and a better person.
> 
> The way I see both fights is Anderson getting absolutely demolished in both of them. He cracked his shin with the first kick and then snapped it almost in half with the second, no fluke there mate. He literally got destroyed in both outings but his ego won't allow him to accept it. Sad really. As long as he keeps the same mindset, he'll lose to Chris Weidman again, and again in brutal fashion.


 Hasnt learned anything ??? srsly dude ??? did you saw him toy around like an idiot in the 2nd fighhtlike did in the first ??
And what the **** he should learn by getting injured ??? Don't throw leg kicks ??

You call what happend in both fights a demolish ??? how many mma fights have you seen ??? 1- 2?


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

jesus christ, you guys sound like 10 year old pansies fighting over who's daddy's the strongest.

agree to disagree and move on.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

hellholming said:


> jesus christ, you guys sound like 10 year old pansies fighting over who's daddy's the strongest.
> 
> agree to disagree and move on.


Feels more like arguing with the kid who thinks the Road Runner is faster than Karl Lewis - True story.

Of course, back then we didn't know Karl was a juicer.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Sports_Nerd said:


> Feels more like arguing with the kid who thinks the Road Runner is faster than Karl Lewis - True story.
> 
> Of course, back then we didn't know Karl was a juicer.


Plus Road Runner was always faster, juice or no juice. Can you imagine Road Runner on the juice? The real question is who is faster between Road Runner and Speedy Gonzales.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Plus Road Runner was always faster, juice or no juice. Can you imagine Road Runner on the juice? The real question is who is faster between Road Runner and Speedy Gonzales.


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## Scarecrow (Mar 20, 2008)

Sounds like Anderson hired Chael as his new PR rep.


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## GDPofDRB (Apr 18, 2013)

Anderson is telling himself stories, maybe as delusion by design for motivation, maybe just pure delusion. He was not the victor. Both of Weidman's victories come with obvious and undeniable caveats which have generated a certain level of victory for him, but they are losses for Silva none the less regardless of what level of impact his own actions or Chris's played in he matter.


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## sucrets (Jul 8, 2007)

It seems like a great number of fellas around this side of the woods have drunk the weidman cool aid.

A win by injury is not a win. Had Sonnen managed to finish that round and the ref seen Jone's toes, itwould have been no less a fluke as Silva breaking his leg.

When weidman took him down in both fights he was very ineffective. He hardly did any damage an in the second fight stood up with his face bleeding. If you are receiving more damage than inflicting while being on top, then you have issues... Like chris did in the second fight.

All the best to Silva in getting better. Would hate to see him retire... Unless of course some new spectacular fighter shows up to entertain me in his stead.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I hate what's become of this now. Weidman fans are defending him. I get it. He defeated Anderson twice and the question marks even though he was winning both fights, and it gets to you. I understand. But people are now actually DOUBTING Anderson Silva? Someone posted a list of the mistakes Anderson made. Really? Anderson, who has never done things by the book, and you're able to just sit there and comment that his strategy didn't work? The fact is, Anderson did what he did and always has. To doubt the technical ability, and most importantly the finishing ability, of the greatest of all time based on two fights is ridiculously fickle. It's like someone posting a thread "exposing" Fedor cause Werdum caught him. Anderson has proven that he is unpredictable. We don't know what he's going to do, or how he plans on doing it. You can expect that Weidman would have won, but giving Anderson no chance is simply not understanding MMA.

@sucrets, I think perhaps you are part of the reason for the Weidman defenders. Chris barely did any damage? He completely wrecked Anderson after dropping him, so much so that I expected a referee stoppage. Having a bloody nose means absolutely nothing. Coming into the second round, you could tell that Weidman has taken some of Anderson's confidence.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

sucrets said:


> It seems like a great number of fellas around this side of the woods have drunk the weidman cool aid.


It's not nearly as addictive as the Silva kool aid though. Silva kool aid is like crack, or Heisenberg blue meth. You never go back - it's full retard from there on out.

:wink01:


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Woodenhead said:


> It's not nearly as addictive as the Silva kool aid though. Silva kool aid is like crack, or Heisenberg blue meth. You never go back - it's full retard from there on out.
> 
> :wink01:


To not be in awe of the skills that Anderson Silva possesses, is to not know about martial arts.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> To not be in awe of the skills that Anderson Silva possesses, is to not know about martial arts.


Being in awe of some of the shit Anderson pulls off does not mean that he is exempt from making technical mistakes.

He made technical striking mistakes in the first fight and he made some in the second fight, these are facts. The question is why he made those mistakes. Did he make them because he's not that well versed in striking? Nope. Did he make them because he started to believe his own bull shit "I want to fight my clone, blah blah blah" and believed he was too arrogant to throw techniques with proper set up without getting punished? Most likely.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

I don't think Chuck lost to Jardine, Shogun, Ace or Rashad. I count those all as wins over Tito.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Being in awe of some of the shit Anderson pulls off does not mean that he is exempt from making technical mistakes.
> 
> He made technical striking mistakes in the first fight and he made some in the second fight, these are facts. The question is why he made those mistakes. Did he make them because he's not that well versed in striking? Nope. Did he make them because he started to believe his own bull shit "I want to fight my clone, blah blah blah" and believed he was too arrogant to throw techniques with proper set up without getting punished? Most likely.


He makes technical mistakes in every fight.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

_To not be in awe of the skills that Anderson Silva possesses, is to not know about martial arts._

Actually, it's the opposite. To be knowledgeable means you _wouldn't_ be in awe, since you already know the techniques etc. - nothing is surprising. To be in awe would be to have drank the kool aid.


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## Swp (Jan 2, 2010)

Woodenhead said:


> _To not be in awe of the skills that Anderson Silva possesses, is to not know about martial arts._
> 
> Actually, it's the opposite. To be knowledgeable means you _wouldn't_ be in awe, since you already know the techniques etc. - nothing is surprising. To be in awe would be to have drank the kool aid.


Yea , you know every techniq now , he's very predictable and a easy opponent !


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I agree. Anderson is lucky that Leben got stopped by Hall, otherwise the Crippler would be putting him in a box.


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## MCMAP Wizzard (Feb 5, 2012)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> @sucrets, I think perhaps you are part of the reason for the Weidman defenders. Chris barely did any damage? He completely wrecked Anderson after dropping him, so much so that I expected a referee stoppage. Having a bloody nose means absolutely nothing. Coming into the second round, you could tell that Weidman has taken some of Anderson's confidence.


It's becoming clear to me that sucrets is a Weidman fan who has come here pretending to be a Silva fan in order to make all Silva fans seem delusional. No logic in most of the thought processes, seems like a classic switcharoo.


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## Thermopyle (Jul 1, 2010)

Even the most talented and skilled athletes can lose their amazing talents and skills in surprisingly rapid fashion.

It's no surprise that it may have happened to a guy who is very close to thirty nine years old.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

OU said:


> I don't think Chuck lost to Jardine, Shogun, Ace or Rashad. I count those all as wins over Tito.


What in the world...

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

<3


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## sucrets (Jul 8, 2007)

Woodenhead said:


> _To not be in awe of the skills that Anderson Silva possesses, is to not know about martial arts._
> 
> Actually, it's the opposite. To be knowledgeable means you _wouldn't_ be in awe, since you already know the techniques etc. - nothing is surprising. To be in awe would be to have drank the kool aid.


Knowledge does not negate awe. It magnifies it.

Whatever it is you're drinking. Stop.



MCMAP Wizzard said:


> It's becoming clear to me that sucrets is a Weidman fan who has come here pretending to be a Silva fan in order to make all Silva fans seem delusional. No logic in most of the thought processes, seems like a classic switcharoo.


Logic has nothing to do with MMA. Don't use words you know nothing about.

If you want to contest what I said, go ahead with your weidman cool aid in hand. I can't wait to hear the usual nonsense for the 100th time.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I hate what's become of this now. Weidman fans are defending him. I get it. He defeated Anderson twice and the question marks even though he was winning both fights, and it gets to you. I understand. But people are now actually DOUBTING Anderson Silva? Someone posted a list of the mistakes Anderson made. Really? Anderson, who has never done things by the book, and you're able to just sit there and comment that his strategy didn't work? The fact is, Anderson did what he did and always has. To doubt the technical ability, and most importantly the finishing ability, of the greatest of all time based on two fights is ridiculously fickle. It's like someone posting a thread "exposing" Fedor cause Werdum caught him. Anderson has proven that he is unpredictable. We don't know what he's going to do, or how he plans on doing it. You can expect that Weidman would have won, but giving Anderson no chance is simply not understanding MMA.
> 
> @sucrets, I think perhaps you are part of the reason for the Weidman defenders. Chris barely did any damage? He completely wrecked Anderson after dropping him, so much so that I expected a referee stoppage. Having a bloody nose means absolutely nothing. Coming into the second round, you could tell that Weidman has taken some of Anderson's confidence.


this is simply wrong, there are no question marks. Chris Weidman in his prime beats Anderson Silva way past his prime. Anderson made mistakes plain and simple, otherwise he wouldn't have lost twice. Nobody's saying Silva was exposed or any nonsense like that, he's widely regarded as the GOAT so take this dribble elsewhere. Missing punches badly and doing no damage does not mean Anderson was going to pull off a win, if anything the fight indicated everything to the contrary. There is no world in which Anderson was winning the second fight, he lost and was made to look an amateur via a few awful mistakes. You can't just say he's this mystical creature so things aren't the same, dude lost twice and simply can not much up with Weidman at his age. Anderson made fewer mistakes when he was younger and probably would win in his prime and obviously lost a significant step in his game if you can't see that you are blind. It was bound to happen eventually, he's only human.


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## sucrets (Jul 8, 2007)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> @sucrets, I think perhaps you are part of the reason for the Weidman defenders. Chris barely did any damage? He completely wrecked Anderson after dropping him, so much so that I expected a referee stoppage. Having a bloody nose means absolutely nothing. Coming into the second round, you could tell that Weidman has taken some of Anderson's confidence.


Stoppage? Are you kidding me? On no way was there any moment that warranted a stoppage. He did drop him, which came as a surprise to me at least, but nothing came out of it. He did not capitalize. While on his back Silva did a lot of damage. Chris' face was swollen by the end of the round. Another thing that surprised me.

I did not see any lack of confidence from Anderson. I did see a terrible error, in the kick that he threw. I mentioned it in another thread. Why on earth would he throw that kind of kick at that speed from such distance? To me it seems like he didn't gauge his effective range well. Another error on his part. Again surprised.

So in sum, while I recognize Silva's mistakes I maintain that the "win" was not warranted based on the fact that it was a result of injury.

The weidman parade on the other hand is in lala land. Saying that he destroyed Anderson? That he is the superior fighter? LOL please...



rabakill said:


> this is simply wrong, there are no question marks. Chris Weidman in his prime beats Anderson Silva way past his prime. Anderson made mistakes plain and simple, otherwise he wouldn't have lost twice. Nobody's saying Silva was exposed or any nonsense like that, he's widely regarded as the GOAT so take this dribble elsewhere. Missing punches badly and doing no damage does not mean Anderson was going to pull off a win, if anything the fight indicated everything to the contrary. *There is no world in which Anderson was winning the second fight, he lost and was made to look an amateur* via a few awful mistakes. You can't just say he's this mystical creature so things aren't the same, dude lost twice and simply can not much up with Weidman at his age. Anderson made fewer mistakes when he was younger and probably would win in his prime and obviously lost a significant step in his game if you can't see that you are blind. It was bound to happen eventually, he's only human.


Case in point of mindless wiedman drone. I rest my case.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Start using the edit button secrets, I had to merge multiple groups of posts from you.

As for Anderson, I'm sure it's tough being so dominant for so many years then getting whipped twice in a row by a guy who has less than 10 fights (well, in the first fight anyways). Anderson is human, it's going to take a while for him to process the losses properly. 

As for the injury, nobody wanted it to end that way but it did and Anderson lost. Anderson lost the first round again quite easily, and didn't show any sign that he was going to beat Weidman in the second. At that level anybody can beat anybody, but after two fights I've seen Weidman win 4/4 rounds (first two rounds on points, the two last rounds via finishes), and I have no desire to see a third fight when Anderson recovers.

I wish the best for Anderson, I hope he comes back strong and works his way back up the ladder and maybe by that time a third fight will be interesting (assuming Weidman is still the champion), but right now.. I've seen Weidman beat Anderson twice without ever once being in any sort of danger, I don't need to see it a third time.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

rabakill said:


> this is simply wrong, there are no question marks. Chris Weidman in his prime beats Anderson Silva way past his prime. Anderson made mistakes plain and simple, otherwise he wouldn't have lost twice. Nobody's saying Silva was exposed or any nonsense like that, he's widely regarded as the GOAT so take this dribble elsewhere. Missing punches badly and doing no damage does not mean Anderson was going to pull off a win, if anything the fight indicated everything to the contrary. There is no world in which Anderson was winning the second fight, he lost and was made to look an amateur via a few awful mistakes. You can't just say he's this mystical creature so things aren't the same, dude lost twice and simply can not much up with Weidman at his age. Anderson made fewer mistakes when he was younger and probably would win in his prime and obviously lost a significant step in his game if you can't see that you are blind. It was bound to happen eventually, he's only human.





sucrets said:


> Stoppage? Are you kidding me? On no way was there any moment that warranted a stoppage. He did drop him, which came as a surprise to me at least, but nothing came out of it. He did not capitalize. While on his back Silva did a lot of damage. Chris' face was swollen by the end of the round. Another thing that surprised me.
> 
> I did not see any lack of confidence from Anderson. I did see a terrible error, in the kick that he threw. I mentioned it in another thread. Why on earth would he throw that kind of kick at that speed from such distance? To me it seems like he didn't gauge his effective range well. Another error on his part. Again surprised.
> 
> ...


You know what, I'm not replying, because literally I'd be arguing two completely different points if I did lmao.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

sucrets said:


> Knowledge does not negate awe. It magnifies it.
> 
> Whatever it is you're drinking. Stop.


Nope, wrong again. Have some more kool aid.



M.C. said:


> As for Anderson, I'm sure it's tough being so dominant for so many years then getting whipped twice in a row by a guy who has less than 10 fights (well, in the first fight anyways). Anderson is human, it's going to take a while for him to process the losses properly.
> 
> As for the injury, nobody wanted it to end that way but it did and Anderson lost. Anderson lost the first round again quite easily, and didn't show any sign that he was going to beat Weidman in the second. At that level anybody can beat anybody, but after two fights I've seen Weidman win 4/4 rounds (first two rounds on points, the two last rounds via finishes), and I have no desire to see a third fight when Anderson recovers.
> 
> I wish the best for Anderson, I hope he comes back strong and works his way back up the ladder and maybe by that time a third fight will be interesting (assuming Weidman is still the champion), but right now.. I've seen Weidman beat Anderson twice without ever once being in any sort of danger, I don't need to see it a third time.


That's pretty much how I feel. I honestly don't care what Silva says right now - I'm more interested in where his head will be at a few months down the road. He's at a place right now where he's never been before. He has a lot of time now to absorb & mull over everything.


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## MCMAP Wizzard (Feb 5, 2012)

sucrets said:


> Stoppage? Are you kidding me? *On no way was there any moment that warranted a stoppage.* He did drop him, which came as a surprise to me at least, but nothing came out of it.


You are certainly in the minority with that opinion. Or perhaps you were up getting a drink when Weidman put his barrage of punches and elbows on Silva on the ground. 

The act is becoming a little too obvious, please stop before you tip off the Silva fans to the fact you're just trying to make them sound ridiculous.


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## Zafersan (Nov 18, 2008)

Weidman has got to be the luckiest fighter ever. First he gets a lucky KO on silva when silva was trolling like no one ever trolled before (in an mma match). Then the guy has the GOAT break his leg on him. Weidman, hmmm, we should call him Chris "fluke" Weidman.

I totally believe silva would have won either fight if Weidman didn't get lucky. I can't wait till he loses his next fight. Then Weidman will be exposed and a bum.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Zafersan said:


> Weidman has got to be the luckiest fighter ever. First he gets a lucky KO on silva when silva was trolling like no one ever trolled before (in an mma match). Then the guy has the GOAT break his leg on him. Weidman, hmmm, we should call him Chris "fluke" Weidman.
> 
> I totally believe silva would have won either fight if Weidman didn't get lucky. I can't wait till he loses his next fight. Then Weidman will be exposed and a bum.


Let me be the first to inform you that no one is going to fall for this. I will also not reply to your desperate attempt to keep the conversation gone after this post. Next time, be a little bit more covert and less blatant with your attempts. Good day.



MCMAP Wizard said:


> You are certainly in the minority with that opinion. Or perhaps you were up getting a drink when Weidman put his barrage of punches and elbows on Silva on the ground.
> 
> The act is becoming a little too obvious, please stop before you tip off the Silva fans to the fact you're just trying to make them sound ridiculous.


To be fair to him, I haven't seen a lot of people saying it was close. I just felt that in the moment, as the referee might, that Anderson was taking punches (for no reason) and not really trying too hard to tie up. He had a good few unanswered ones that I felt could have had a lesser referee step in.

And to the guy ruining the image of Anderson fans, because Weidman had a bloody nose, he didn't land harder strikes? I haven't seen fight rules like that since school, when one kid got his ass kicked but the other had the swollen eye, so ass kicked guy wins.


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## Greg (UK) (Apr 23, 2007)

Whilst I believe that time has caught up with Anderson and he can't take a shot as well as he used to be able to (see him smiling at Jorge Rivera repeatedly punching him in the face from the clinch in his cage rage days)I would never count him out of a fight.

Weidman was definitely bossing the second fight but Sonnen destroyed Anderson in their first fight dropping him twice and punishing him on the ground and Silva still managed to find a way to win.

It appeared like Weidman was gonna take the fight again but because it ended due to a rare injury its always gonna be a win with an * mark

I do think Silva needs to earn a title shot though if he were to come back, Weidman has definitely done enough to leave him behind for now.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

The way Anderson threw that kick was so vicious I got impressed. Certainly something would get destroyed. If you rewatch his facial expression, there were pure rage, something we are not used to see in him since his Chute Boxe era. He was kicking with bad intentions this time and not recreationally like in their first encounter.

When he comes back and decides to land that kick again, check or no check, just remember he now has an Adamantium tube running through the core of his shinbone.

Lots of ppl "missing" Anderson's point on purpose. Big news.
He is 0-2 against Weidman, so he has lost back to back. When he got tagged in the first, he was the first to state Weidman earned his victory and was the best. This time, fight ended due to a freaking injury. There were technical mistakes. He ackowledges them, but fight ended due to a freaking injury.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> The way Anderson threw that kick was so vicious I got impressed. Certainly something would get destroyed. If you rewatch his facial expression, there were pure rage, something we are not used to see in him since his Chute Boxe era. He was kicking with bad intentions this time and not recreationally like in their first encounter.
> 
> When he comes back and decides to land that kick again, check or no check, just remember he now has an Adamantium tube running through the core of his shinbone.
> 
> ...


^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> The way Anderson threw that kick was so vicious I got impressed. Certainly something would get destroyed. If you rewatch his facial expression, there were pure rage, something we are not used to see in him since his Chute Boxe era. He was kicking with bad intentions this time and not recreationally like in their first encounter.
> 
> When he comes back and decides to land that kick again, check or no check, just remember he now has an Adamantium tube running through the core of his shinbone.
> 
> ...


The bolded part is obvious if you're not a hater!


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## randomstuff (Feb 3, 2008)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Lots of ppl "missing" Anderson's point on purpose. Big news.
> He is 0-2 against Weidman, so he has lost back to back. When he got tagged in the first, he was the first to state Weidman earned his victory and was the best. This time, fight ended due to a freaking injury. There were technical mistakes. He ackowledges them, but fight ended due to a freaking injury.


I love Anderson Silva; he arrived just as my interest in MMA was starting to wane and sucked me right back in. It's hard to imagine that we will ever see a fighter again who is so much better than all of his peers and for so long. But having said all of that, Weidman won the 2nd fight. There is no asterisk next to the win and it's as moot a point to speculate on what Silva might have been able to do had Weidman not checked that leg kick as it is to speculate what Belfort might have done if Anderson hadn't landed the front kick to the head.

The people who are trying to denigrate the win by throwing around the word 'injury' and comparing it to other injury stoppages in other circumstances are missing the point that, in this case, the injury was the result of a legal maneuver performed by Chris Weidman. Imagine that someone refused to tap to an arm bar and had his arm broken. When the ref stopped that fight, would anyone think that their should be an asterisk next to the TKO? They are the same exact scenario. It's true, of course, that it's a rare occurrence for a leg check to break a leg, but that's neither here nor there.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

randomstuff said:


> I love Anderson Silva; he arrived just as my interest in MMA was starting to wane and sucked me right back in. It's hard to imagine that we will ever see a fighter again who is so much better than all of his peers and for so long. But having said all of that, Weidman won the 2nd fight. There is no asterisk next to the win and it's as moot a point to speculate on what Silva might have been able to do had Weidman not checked that leg kick as it is to speculate what Belfort might have done if Anderson hadn't landed the front kick to the head.
> 
> The people who are trying to denigrate the win by throwing around the word 'injury' and comparing it to other injury stoppages in other circumstances are missing the point that, in this case, the injury was the result of a legal maneuver performed by Chris Weidman. Imagine that someone refused to tap to an arm bar and had his arm broken. When the ref stopped that fight, would anyone think that their should be an asterisk next to the TKO? They are the same exact scenario. It's true, of course, that it's a rare occurrence for a leg check to break a leg, but that's neither here nor there.


There's some logic to be had here. I don't necessarily 100% agree, but I see your point.

Anderson's break was a direct result of Weidman checking his kick. It's a defensive action one might say, but at the same time it's an action that is used to not just block a kick, but to inflict pain on the attacker. It's a way to get the attacker to say "ouch, I should probably not do that again". The fact that it stopped the fight, although rare, is what it is.. it's an action Weidman used that causes pain that stopped the fight. Defensive yes, but its purpose other than protecting yourself is to hurt the guy kicking, and it hurt Anderson to the point of stopping the fight.

Either way, I'm overall satisfied with the two fights on a whole and am ready to move on. Weidman is 2-0 with Silva, and if Lord Zeus' will demands it (or the fates, whatever), we'll see Silva vs. Weidman 3 when Silva has worked his way back up, but not now or anytime soon.


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## randomstuff (Feb 3, 2008)

M.C said:


> Anderson's break was a direct result of Weidman checking his kick. It's a defensive action one might say, but at the same time it's an action that is used to not just block a kick, but to inflict pain on the attacker. It's a way to get the attacker to say "ouch, I should probably not do that again". The fact that it stopped the fight, although rare, is what it is.. it's an action Weidman used that causes pain that stopped the fight. Defensive yes, but its purpose other than protecting yourself is to hurt the guy kicking, and it hurt Anderson to the point of stopping the fight.


Exactly. UFC rules (and common sense) recognize two kinds of injury stoppages* - those resulting from legal maneuvers and those resulting from fouls. When the injury results from a legal maneuver the only reasonable thing to do is to award a TKO, because, well injuring your opponent is the point of the whole game! As a fan, the only scenario in this classification that bothers me a little is when the ref stops the fight while the fighter wants to continue. This happens with cuts pretty frequently and can be somewhat unsatisfying. But I'm pretty sure that Anderson Silva didn't want to keep fighting and I can't imagine that even sucrets thinks that he would have won if the fight hadn't been stopped.

* actually the rules recognize eight or nine injury stoppage situations but all of them but one, deal with fouls, so nothing is lost here by pretending that there are only two.



M.C said:


> Either way, I'm overall satisfied with the two fights on a whole and am ready to move on. Weidman is 2-0 with Silva, and if Lord Zeus' will demands it (or the fates, whatever), we'll see Silva vs. Weidman 3 when Silva has worked his way back up, but not now or anytime soon.


I have really mixed feeling about a Silva comeback. If he comes back and he's nearly as good as before, then that's an awesome story. But my gut tells me that a 40 year old Anderson Silva with a year and a half of ring rust isn't going to be amongst the very best of the middleweights.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

randomstuff said:


> Exactly. UFC rules (and common sense) recognize two kinds of injury stoppages* - those resulting from legal maneuvers and those resulting from fouls. When the injury results from a legal maneuver the only reasonable thing to do is to award a TKO, because, well injuring your opponent is the point of the whole game! As a fan, the only scenario in this classification that bothers me a little is when the ref stops the fight while the fighter wants to continue. This happens with cuts pretty frequently and can be somewhat unsatisfying. But I'm pretty sure that Anderson Silva didn't want to keep fighting and I can't imagine that even sucrets thinks that he would have won if the fight hadn't been stopped.
> 
> * actually the rules recognize eight or nine injury stoppage situations but all of them but one, deal with fouls, so nothing is lost here by pretending that there are only two.
> 
> ...


No one really considers Cote as one of Anderson's beaten opponents outside of a number.


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

randomstuff said:


> The people who are trying to denigrate the win by *throwing around the word 'injury'... *


God damn you, Bruce Buffer. You are the troll who started all this...


----------



## randomstuff (Feb 3, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> No one really considers Cote as one of Anderson's beaten opponents outside of a number.


The Cote win was not very satisfying for sure, but the situations really aren't similar for at least the following reasons:

(1) The final injury wasn't the direct result of a Silva maneuver. If Silva had torn Cote's ACL with a kick, no one would begrudge him the win, regardless of how low probability an event that is.

(2) This was just a reaggravation of an injury Cote initially suffered in the run up to the fight. Really, he shouldn't have even been in the Octagon that night.

(3) Cote wanted to keep fighting and Dean stopped the fight against his objections. (well, I'm pretty sure that he didn't *really* want to keep fighting, but he at least made the pretense)

Mostly it's all about (1) though.


----------



## sucrets (Jul 8, 2007)

Woodenhead said:


> Nope, wrong again. Have some more kool aid.


Saying it's wrong doesn't make it so. Just like saying 2+2=5 doesn't make it so. Now give it a rest.



MCMAP Wizzard said:


> You are certainly in the minority with that opinion. Or perhaps you were up getting a drink when Weidman put his barrage of punches and elbows on Silva on the ground.
> 
> The act is becoming a little too obvious, please stop before you tip off the Silva fans to the fact you're just trying to make them sound ridiculous.


Argumentum ad populum fallacy. Such a new and refreshing retort... /eyeroll

Post a video. Show me where the stoppage should have been enforced if you think I missed it.



randomstuff said:


> The people who are trying to denigrate the win by throwing around the word 'injury' and comparing it to other injury stoppages in other circumstances are missing the point that, in this case, the injury was the result of a legal maneuver performed by Chris Weidman. Imagine that someone refused to tap to an arm bar and had his arm broken. When the ref stopped that fight, would anyone think that their should be an asterisk next to the TKO? They are the same exact scenario. It's true, of course, that it's a rare occurrence for a leg check to break a leg, but that's neither here nor there.


There is a big difference between a submission resulting in an injury and the type of injury Silva suffered. In the case of submissions, there is an intention to engage the limb in such a way as so to lock/break it. In the case of the kick check there was absolutely no intention of breaking the leg. Furthermore, The chances of breaking an arm while in an armbar for example is extremely high. The chances of breaking a shin using a kick check is minute.

In sum? It was good fortune on chris' part that ended the fight. Not fighting superiority.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

randomstuff said:


> The Cote win was not very satisfying for sure, but the situations really aren't similar for at least the following reasons:
> 
> (1) The final injury wasn't the direct result of a Silva maneuver. If Silva had torn Cote's ACL with a kick, no one would begrudge him the win, regardless of how low probability an event that is.
> 
> ...


1) If Weidman has broken Anderson's leg with a kick, I'd agree with this. It's like saying Cote injured himself because of the distance Anderson used.

2) So? He was.

3) Again, so? Do you think Anderson should have wanted to keep fighting or something?


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## randomstuff (Feb 3, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> 1) If Weidman has broken Anderson's leg with a kick, I'd agree with this. It's like saying Cote injured himself because of the distance Anderson used.
> keep fighting or something?


Ugh. It's obviously not even remotely like saying that at all. Anderson Silva's leg didn't just magically split in half while it was just kind of floating out there minding it's own business. It split in half against the force of Chris Weidman's leg check. Good grief.



ClydebankBlitz said:


> 3) Again, so? Do you think Anderson should have wanted to keep fighting or something?


No, of course I don't think that he should have. The point of this whole thread though (as I understand it) was that there was something somehow unsatisfying about Chris Weidman's victory. As I mentioned earlier, the only time I find injury stoppages unsatisfying is when the injured participant wants to keep fighting. In those circumstances, it really does make sense to wonder what would have happened if the ref hadn't stopped the fight. But this wasn't that kind of situation; obvsiouly Silva had no desire to continue.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

randomstuff said:


> Ugh. It's obviously not even remotely like saying that at all. Anderson Silva's leg didn't just magically split in half while it was just kind of floating out there minding it's own business. It split in half against the force of Chris Weidman's leg check. Good grief.
> 
> *Moving out of distance, to force your opponent to overstretch, could be considered as much of a tactic as breaking someones leg deliberately with a kick check. Weidman checked a kid, Anderson's leg broke. It's like breaking your hand punching an opponent while his arms are up.*
> 
> ...



^^^^^


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## randomstuff (Feb 3, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Moving out of distance, to force your opponent to overstretch, could be considered as much of a tactic as breaking someones leg deliberately with a kick check.


Yeah, not by any reasonable person it couldn't. The leg check was intended to hurt Silva in order to dissuade him from further kicks. The fact that it broke his leg only means that it worked better than Weidman had any right to expect that it would. That it worked so well was a low probability event, but that's neither here nor there.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

randomstuff said:


> Yeah, not by any reasonable person it couldn't. The leg check was intended to hurt Silva in order to dissuade him from further kicks. * The fact that it broke his leg only means that it worked better than Weidman had any right to expect that it would.* That it worked so well was a low probability event, but that's neither here nor there.


"Ouch, that hurt" = Leg check expected result.

Lower leg broken in half = unexpected leg check result = improbable = unlikely = *ACCIDENTAL* => The fracture was accidental, not the leg check, which was a proper defense technique.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Yeah ok anderson, face it weidman beat you twice he's better than you and checking kicks isn't an underground technique it's muay thai 101 and one of the first things you learn.


Not for that purpose. It was a happenstance, Weidman wasn't even trying to be on offensive with that check. Claiming that it was all part of the plan is like saying Rob Emerson planned to KO Gray Maynard as he rolled with that slam.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

HexRei said:


> Not for that purpose. It was a happenstance, Weidman wasn't even trying to be on offensive with that check. Claiming that it was all part of the plan is like saying *Rob Emerson planned to KO Gray Maynard as he rolled with that slam.*


Or saying Cain planned to KO JDS while rolling away from that lock attempt. :wink03:


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## randomstuff (Feb 3, 2008)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> "Ouch, that hurt" = Leg check expected result.
> 
> Lower leg broken in half = unexpected leg check result = improbable = unlikely = *ACCIDENTAL* => The fracture was accidental, not the leg check, which was a proper defense technique.


If a golfer hits a hole in one, is that an 'accident'? If he wins a tournament by hitting a hole in one on the last hole, would you consider that win somehow illegitimate?


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

I think a better metaphor is golfer a. wins because golferb. breaks his only driver.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Ape City said:


> I think a better metaphor is golfer a. wins because golferb. breaks his only driver.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


But in this case golfer A performed an action that directly broke golfer B's club. 

Had Anderson broke his leg kicking Weidman in the stomach flesh without resistance, it would be another story. Weidman specifically put his leg up so that Anderson would feel pain, so that he would hit his bone and rethink throwing that kick anymore. 

There's no doubt it is a rare occurrence, but it was still a direct result of Weidman's gameplan to check his kicks and make him pay with pain for throwing them. It just so happens the pain this time came from his leg snapping and he couldn't fight on.

Personally, I can see how both sides could think they are right and wouldn't really disagree either way. It's not a black and white situation.


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## Gustafsson Fan (Apr 3, 2012)

randomstuff said:


> If a golfer hits a hole in one, is that an 'accident'? If he wins a tournament by hitting a hole in one on the last hole, would you consider that win somehow illegitimate?


Furthermore, if a golfer is behind (Silva) a few shots and decides to go high risk over water but end up in the water would you say he was just unlucky ?

Another example, 2 guys in match play have one hole to go for who wins the match. Guy #1 lands on green far away from the hole with small chances or birdie. Guy #2 make a hole in one and wins the match. Even if guy #2 didn't make hole in one his shot was great and would most likely have made birdie and won. No one would have said it was luck if it was very close to the hole.

Furthermore, had Silva landed that all-in kicks and Weidman had limped and losing by T.K.O would the same people claim Silva was lucky landing a kick ?


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

I train MT and we don't actually plan for leg breaks when we check, it's a defensive maneuveur, designed to protect ourselves. That's what I mean. I don't think Weidman meant anything else either. Maybe you could chalk it up aging and related bone density... But Andy's thrown that kick dozens of times.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

HexRei said:


> Claiming that it was all part of the plan is like saying Rob Emerson planned to KO Gray Maynard as he rolled with that slam.


Best analogy I've seen yet. 

Emerson grabbed Maynard's neck. It was a defensive move which he used to avoid being slammed, or to guillotine. Had he not grabbed the neck, Maynard wouldn't have been KOed.

Weidman checked Anderson's kick. It was a defensive move which he used to avoid being kicked, or to hurt his opponent. Had he not checked the kick, Anderson wouldn't have had his leg broken.

Yet these two are in different categories? No one is trying to take anything away from Weidman, but we just don't give him credit for shit he didn't do.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

M.C said:


> But in this case golfer A performed an action that directly broke golfer B's club.
> 
> Had Anderson broke his leg kicking Weidman in the stomach flesh without resistance, it would be another story. Weidman specifically put his leg up so that Anderson would feel pain, so that he would hit his bone and rethink throwing that kick anymore.
> 
> ...


Definitely not black and white. The way I look at it Weidman was doing the exact thing he trained to do. The exact thing that would neutralize Anderson's leg kicks and perhaps help propel him to another tko over Anderson. But to have Andy's leg break in half? That was like winning a terrible lottery. 

I say terrible lottery because honestly it would have been better for Weidman if he had just done the same thing he did in the first fight. I'm sure Weidman feels the exact same way. The leg break causes doubt, and leaves the fight feeling unfinished. 

If I were Weidman I would be furious that my chance to prove the first fight wasn't just Andy clowning was stolen from me by a fluke like that.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

randomstuff said:


> If a golfer hits a hole in one, is that an 'accident'? If he wins a tournament by hitting a hole in one on the last hole, would you consider that win somehow illegitimate?


You realize that, even being hard task, to hit the hole in one is the *primary goal* of the golfer, right? While breaking your opponent's leg by checking a kick...not so much, so there goes your analogy through the window.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Ape City said:


> Definitely not black and white. The way I look at it Weidman was doing the exact thing he trained to do. The exact thing that would neutralize Anderson's leg kicks and perhaps help propel him to another tko over Anderson. But to have Andy's leg break in half? That was like winning a terrible lottery.
> 
> I say terrible lottery because honestly it would have been better for Weidman if he had just done the same thing he did in the first fight. I'm sure Weidman feels the exact same way. The leg break causes doubt, and leaves the fight feeling unfinished.
> 
> If I were Weidman I would be furious that my chance to prove the first fight wasn't just Andy clowning was stolen from me by a fluke like that.


I didn't really think of it this way. Weidman might well fell that he got robbed of a convincing knockout victory. The PPV tagline was "leave no doubt", and watching the fight, Weidman had just dropped Anderson, smashed him up on the ground a bit, and was able to start checking Anderson's kicks. He would have felt 100% able to win the fight, and now he'd covered with a huge question mark.

This kind of reminds me of Groves/Froch. I believed that Froch would come back and earn a stoppage, thus giving him the greatest moment of his entire career. An early stoppage later means he was lucky to win the fight and everyone thinks his opponent was better. Poor guy went from potentially the greatest moment to being a complete fluke, kind of a bit like Weidman.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Well my gripe is that its not black and white but everyone is acting like its simple.

On one hand you have Anderson Silva, KO power in both hands, kicks, knees, its hard for me to say he couldn't have dropped Weidman at some point. Even hurt or gassed I still cant see him as a fighter that couldn't put Weidman away. 

On the other hand Weidman was kicking Silva's ass, again. 

I think its safe to say you can chalk it up to one big Silva loss and move on but its not the way fans wanted to see Silva go out.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Andersons bone breaking was definitely an accident. NO ONE including Weidman thought "If i check his kick properly his leg should break" because that isnt supposed to happen even with a 100% perfectly timed check. When something like that happens it is an accident. The fact that he checked the kick is not an accident but the fact that Andersons leg broke was an accident. That isnt something Weidman was trying to do. 

But if someone hits a hole in 1 that is completely different as that is something they are trying to do.


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## JWP (Jun 4, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Andersons bone breaking was definitely an accident. NO ONE including Weidman thought "If i check his kick properly his leg should break" because that isnt supposed to happen even with a 100% perfectly timed check. When something like that happens it is an accident. The fact that he checked the kick is not an accident but the fact that Andersons leg broke was an accident. That isnt something Weidman was trying to do.
> 
> But if someone hits a hole in 1 that is completely different as that is something they are trying to do.


well said


one thing i would like to say on the subject of dominance or silva having his ass kicked until the injury is that if silva was getting his ass kicked what was happening to chris leben in their fight?

winning yes, ass kicking - not imo


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

sucrets said:


> Saying it's wrong doesn't make it so. Just like saying 2+2=5 doesn't make it so. Now give it a rest.


You really should take your own advice.


Unfortunately, this whole debate over Silva's last 2 fights won't ever be put to rest. We'll be hearing the same arguments for a long time yet. Should buy stock in the popcorn industry.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

I guess if you're a warrior then you'd want to avenge any loss.

No matter what any fighter, trainer, promoter, fan-boy on an MMA forum says about that matter, nothing will convince Anderson he's lost until it happens definitively...and he believes he's been beaten.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

*sigh*

If you throw a check with the intention of hurting your opponent to stop him kicking you - and it breaks his leg - its not an accident. Sure, It worked better then you could have possibly hoped or planned for. But to suggest a move which is designed to protect you and hurt your opponent is a fluke, when it actually hurts him badly?... well, I seriously dont follow the logic here at all.

What exactly is being debated here? That Chris Weidman had no intention of breaking Silva leg? I think we can all mostly agree that he wasnt aiming for a break. But he *was* trying to hurt him.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

CupCake said:


> I guess if you're a warrior then you'd want to avenge any loss.
> 
> No matter what any fighter, trainer, promoter, fan-boy on an MMA forum says about that matter, nothing will convince Anderson he's lost until it happens definitively...and he believes he's been beaten.


He lost definitively in the first fight. He got handled for an entire round and then got brutally KO'd in the second round. About as definitive as you can get.

In the second fight Weidman nearly KO'd him in the first round, handled him the entire round and then Silva tried kicking him and ended up snapping his leg in half around Weidmans shin. Lets also not forget the fact that Weidman cracked Silvas shin with the first kick he threw.

It doesn't get much more humiliating when you look at it objectively. Anderson got completely destroyed in both fights which ever way you look at it. In the first fight he got knocked out cold, in the second, a defensive/aggressive manoeuvre left Anderson lying on the floor screaming in pain.

I don't see how much more definitive you can get.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> He lost definitively in the first fight. He got handled for an entire round and then got brutally KO'd in the second round. About as definitive as you can get.
> 
> In the second fight Weidman nearly KO'd him in the first round, handled him the entire round and then Silva tried kicking him and ended up snapping his leg in half around Weidmans shin. Lets also not forget the fact that Weidman cracked Silvas shin with the first kick he threw.
> 
> ...


How is getting beat by an undefeated current world champion humiliating?


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

CupCake said:


> I guess if you're a warrior then you'd want to avenge any loss.
> 
> No matter what any fighter, trainer, promoter, fan-boy on an MMA forum says about that matter, *nothing will convince Anderson he's lost until it happens definitively...and he believes he's been beaten.*


Oh, Anderson was pretty much convinced he lost the first fight.






And because his leg snapped, he was unable to avenge his loss in UFC 162.

Believe me Anderson is as frustrated as Chris Weidman for the way this fight ended.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> He lost definitively in the first fight. He got handled for an entire round and then got brutally KO'd in the second round. About as definitive as you can get.


Your hate for Silva's antics clearly cloud your judgement. Silva didn't get handled for an entire round. Weidman was winning the short period of ground fighting, but obviously he didn't feel comfortably enough to continue the GnP and switched to submission grappling which gave Silva the opening to get up again. There was still plenty of time left in the first round and until the KO Weidman wasn't successful with any of his offensive actions.



> In the second fight Weidman nearly KO'd him in the first round, handled him the entire round and then Silva tried kicking him and ended up snapping his leg in half around Weidmans shin. Lets also not forget the fact that Weidman cracked Silvas shin with the first kick he threw.


Ok, so now it's Weidman who purposely cracked Silva's shin...



> It doesn't get much more humiliating when you look at it objectively.


As has aleady been said. How is it humiliating when you get beat by an undefeated current world champion¿ It's not like Weidman toyed around with Silva. Weidman was just not afraid of Silva and won with good standard techniques/injury. Nothing humilating there, just a normal way of winning a fight, that happens all the time.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> He lost definitively in the first fight. He got handled for an entire round and then got brutally KO'd in the second round. About as definitive as you can get.
> 
> In the second fight Weidman nearly KO'd him in the first round, handled him the entire round and then Silva tried kicking him and ended up snapping his leg in half around Weidmans shin. Lets also not forget the fact that Weidman cracked Silvas shin with the first kick he threw.
> 
> ...


Hey I'm not saying that isn't true, I'm saying how Anderson *could* be seeing the whole thing after the second fight.

Tell it to Anderson, he's the one saying he doesn't think he lost Weidman.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Voiceless said:


> Your hate for Silva's antics clearly cloud your judgement. Silva didn't get handled for an entire round. Weidman was winning the short period of ground fighting, but obviously he didn't feel comfortably enough to continue the GnP and switched to submission grappling which gave Silva the opening to get up again. There was still plenty of time left in the first round and until the KO Weidman wasn't successful with any of his offensive actions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No hate at all, I love watching Anderson Silva fight, always have done. I'm not an Anderson Silva fan, I don't get emotionally invested into his fights because of his fake humble persona, but when it comes to what he does in the octagon, I'm always pumped up to see him perform in the octagon. So no, absolutely no hate from me what so ever.

Didn't feel comfortable with his ground and pound? Latching onto a submission doesn't mean that you don't feel comfortable with your ground and pound, it just means that Weidman saw an opportunity for a submission and decided to take it. Looked to me like he felt perfectly comfortable ground and pounding Anderson on the ground and by actively diving on an aggressive submission shown that he's not just content on "Chael Sonnening" him, but is also looking to end the fight at any given moment with a submission. Chris Weidman is also a submission based fighter, so him jumping for a sub on Andy so early on is no surprise, given that's the nature of how he fights. It doesn't mean he wasn't "comfortable" gnp'ing Anderson.

I brought up the cracked shin for people claiming Weidman got lucky in the second fight with the leg break. Quite clearly there was no luck involved. Weidman cracked Andersons shin with his first attempted kick and then snapped it in half with the second. Quite clearly he had been drilling and drilling those leg checks in training and it payed off in a big way during fight night. No luck involved.

People were giving Weidman no chance before the first fight and then even after that, most were claiming he got lucky and Anderson was going to school him in the rematch. It isn't the fact that he lost to an undefeated grapple heavy fighter, its HOW he lost the fights. He got KO'd by a grappler in the first fight and was then left screaming in agony on the floor, having to be stretchered off as his leg snapped in half from kicking Weidmans shin. I'd say both losses were fairly humiliating for a man that has repeatedly said that a "a clone" of himself is his only challenge in the octagon. No doubt Anderson is humiliated by those back to back losses after believing he was actully invincible for so long.


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## randomstuff (Feb 3, 2008)

Soojooko said:


> *sigh*
> 
> If you throw a check with the intention of hurting your opponent to stop him kicking you - and it breaks his leg - its not an accident. Sure, It worked better then you could have possibly hoped or planned for. But to suggest a move which is designed to protect you and hurt your opponent is a fluke, when it actually hurts him badly?... well, I seriously dont follow the logic here at all.
> 
> What exactly is being debated here? That Chris Weidman had no intention of breaking Silva leg? I think we can all mostly agree that he wasnt aiming for a break. But he *was* trying to hurt him.


This. Honestly, this whole debate is kind of bizarre to me and I *am* an Anderson Silva fanboy. The fight ended with Anderson Silva defenseless, writhing in pain as a result of a Chris Weidman technique. When that happens and no one cheeated, the guy writhing in pain, he lost that fight.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

The reason why it wasn't a fluke or lucky is because Anderson made the same mistake multiple times in two different fights and it was exploited plain and simple. Throwing full speed leg kicks with no setup over and over is such a massive mistake that it can end the legacy of the GOAT. 

Remember the Matt Serra vs. GSP first fight? GSP got clipped and made the mistake of getting mad and immediately engaged Serra while he was hurt and got tkoed. While this outcome was unlikely it doesn't make it lucky, one fighter made a mistake that the other exploited. Had GSP backed off and recovered he probably would have won the fight. That's how most fights go, one guy makes an error and loses because of it. Had Anderson set up combos and lured Weidman into throwing first and getting off balance he probably would have won but he believed so much that he was dangerous that he started fighting with his ego and not his skillset. 

It wasn't a matter of Anderson biding his time, feeling it out, he just fought horribly and made numerous mistakes. In the past Anderson would keep his distance and not do much the first round and get the range and timing of his opponent down, but not against Weidman. He went out thinking every punch was a knockout punch and that his chin was invincible and that he could finish it whenever he wants, that's such a horrendously bad mindset and shows in the outcome of the fights. Weidman was such an unknown quantity at the time, Anderson was on the highest of highs probably being told over his shoulder how good he is that it changed how he fights. Weidman was such a nothing that Silva was looking past him to Jon Jones, it was quite a recipe for failure.

You can call it luck when a fight ends not by a mistake but by something completely unpredictable that can not be foreseen by either fighter. Say Jon Jones were to have gotten hit by that one big punch by Rampage, it wouldn't have been luck, it would have been a mistake by Jones staying in the KO range of the punches. Unlikely =/= unlucky.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

rabakill said:


> Remember the Matt Serra vs. GSP first fight? GSP got clipped and made the mistake of getting mad and immediately engaged Serra while he was hurt and got tkoed. While this outcome was unlikely it doesn't make it lucky, one fighter made a mistake that the other exploited. Had GSP backed off and recovered he probably would have won the fight.


Actually there was a degree of luck there. I've watched that fight over and over and GSP ducked Serra's punch at exactly the wrong moment resulting in him being clipped pretty much in the back of the head. That's why Serra was able to capitalize. Serra is heavy handed, but he wasn't trying to do what happened.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

It most definitely was not lucky, GSP could have gotten out of it by not making a mistake but he didn't. He was still cognizant enough to control his actions and he chose to engage while having distorted senses and lack of equilibrium, that's why he lost. You can't say it's luck when one guy makes a mistake that directly results in his loss. 

Of course he was trying to knock out GSP, why else would he throw looping punches like that? To invite his mother over for dinner? 

Same kind of thing with Lesnar vs. Carwin, it wasn't luck that Lesnar won. Carwin punched himself out and Lesnar exploited it. This kind of thing happens in almost every fight that gets finished, someone makes a mistake.


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## King Daisuke (Mar 25, 2013)

In the end it doesn't matter what Anderson is telling himself and his fans. Weidman beat him twice.

Chris da bes now, das it.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

rabakill said:


> It most definitely was not lucky, GSP could have gotten out of it by not making a mistake but he didn't. He was still cognizant enough to control his actions and he chose to engage while having distorted senses and lack of equilibrium, that's why he lost. You can't say it's luck when one guy makes a mistake that directly results in his loss.
> 
> Of course he was trying to knock out GSP, why else would he throw looping punches like that? To invite his mother over for dinner?
> 
> Same kind of thing with Lesnar vs. Carwin, it wasn't luck that Lesnar won. Carwin punched himself out and Lesnar exploited it. This kind of thing happens in almost every fight that gets finished, someone makes a mistake.


Serra was throwing, but he wasn't trying to throw the random lucky strike that landed where it did, unless you think he slings for the back of the head intentionally. 

Ergo, luck.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

King Daisuke said:


> In the end it doesn't matter what Anderson is telling himself and his fans. Weidman beat him twice.
> 
> Chris da bes now, das it.


Maybe at MW, but he's probably the weakest current champion.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Maybe at MW, but he's probably the weakest current champion.


he is? funny how he's the only undefeated one though. 

yes, yes, matchups... but when Weidman is still undefeated in two years, we can come back to this thread.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

hellholming said:


> *he is? funny how he's the only undefeated one though.
> *
> yes, yes, matchups... but when Weidman is still undefeated in two years, we can come back to this thread.


Pretty sure Demian Maia would argue against that.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Maybe at MW, but he's probably the weakest current champion.


Which champ had a more impressive first 10 fights in MMA? Cain is the only one comparable in my opinion.


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## randomstuff (Feb 3, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Maybe at MW, but he's probably the weakest current champion.


Since the guy is undefeated, what do you base this on? Don't get me wrong, I think that the jury is still out on just how good Weidman is and we won't really know until he's fought a few more top competitors with different styles. But the dude has never lost an MMA match. In fact, he's only had one fight this was even competitive and he took it on 11 days notice and cut 30 pounds. The dude's body was absolutely shot for that fight. And he still beat a top 10 fighter. So, what data are you possibly using to judge him as probably the weakest champion?


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

^Jones had a pretty impressive rise to the top, Aldo as well. 



HexRei said:


> Serra was throwing, but he wasn't trying to throw the random lucky strike that landed where it did, unless you think he slings for the back of the head intentionally.
> 
> Ergo, luck.


Absolute nonsense, straight punches are generally thrown to keep distance, hooks and looping punches are generally thrown to hurt. What you're saying is just plain ridiculous, no he didn't throw to hit behind the ear but he threw to hurt. Add on to the fact you're arguing a non sequitur, ergo it has nothing to do with anything relevant. Just being a contrarian for no reason at all.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

King Daisuke said:


> In the end *it doesn't matter what Anderson is telling himself* and his fans. Weidman beat him twice.


Since Weidman is, in fact, 2-0 against Anderson, what the former Champ is telling himself *is, in fact, the most important thing*. 

Lets just see how many fighters would be displaying his will to come back after a horrific injury +40 years old and face Weidman again and probably someone else in his way up. He is preparing his mindset, keeping it focused and setting a goal. He and myself want to see a real regular UFC battle, where both will put their skills to the limit and a good old fashion beat up will occur. It doesn't matter who's gonna be the winner, but a regular fight, without 1/1.000.000 occurrences that will make people pretend are normal.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

I am a huge fan of Weidman, and I kinda dislike Anderson on a personal level... But I love watching him fight, and I would like to see him come back strong, preferably against Rockhold.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Soojooko said:


> Which champ had a more impressive first 10 fights in MMA? Cain is the only one comparable in my opinion.





randomstuff said:


> Since the guy is undefeated, what do you base this on? Don't get me wrong, I think that the jury is still out on just how good Weidman is and we won't really know until he's fought a few more top competitors with different styles. But the dude has never lost an MMA match. In fact, he's only had one fight this was even competitive and he took it on 11 days notice and cut 30 pounds. The dude's body was absolutely shot for that fight. And he still beat a top 10 fighter. So, what data are you possibly using to judge him as probably the weakest champion?


Why are you guys throwing records at me? People think Jacare, Machida, Belfort etc. all give him a great fight. No other champ really has THREE guys considered highly dangerous opponents. Jones has Gus/Cormier, Cain has no one. 

Who is a weaker champion?


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

You can't blame their competition for sucking, HW is the weaker division. Who is the weaker champion? That's an oxymoron.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

rabakill said:


> You can't blame their competition for sucking, HW is the weaker division. Who is the weaker champion? That's an oxymoron.


Junior Dos Santos looked more unbeatable than anyone currently in MW...before Cain.

Cain is undoutably a stronger champion than Chris Weidman.


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## randomstuff (Feb 3, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Why are you guys throwing records at me? People think Jacare, Machida, Belfort etc. all give him a great fight. No other champ really has THREE guys considered highly dangerous opponents. Jones has Gus/Cormier, Cain has no one.
> 
> Who is a weaker champion?


The MW division is definitely stacked, even without Anderson Silva. If that's the point you were trying to make, I don't think that most people would argue with that. Of course, if that's the point you were trying to make, you also expressed it pretty poorly.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

randomstuff said:


> The MW division is definitely stacked, even without Anderson Silva. If that's the point you were trying to make, I don't think that most people would argue with that. Of course, if that's the point you were trying to make, you also expressed it pretty poorly.


It's the most stacked division, but Anderson always stood above dominant, and barley anyone saw an opponent who could conquer him. Thats why Anderson wouldn't have been the weakest.

Now, people like me think Machida beats him. A lot of people think Vitor, Jacare and maybe even Rockhold could give him a lot of trouble. It's not just how stacked the division is, proved as people wouldn't predict that most of these guys would have beaten Anderson.

Weidman MIGHT become the strongest, but right now, the MWs have more chance of beating him than other division fighters have of beating their champ.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Now, people like me think Machida beats him. A lot of people think Vitor, Jacare and maybe even Rockhold could give him a lot of trouble.


but when Anderson first became the champ, people had guys beating him as well before he "legitimized" himself. Give Weidman a chance to prove himself before writing him off.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

rabakill said:


> Absolute nonsense, straight punches are generally thrown to keep distance, hooks and looping punches are generally thrown to hurt. What you're saying is just plain ridiculous, no he didn't throw to hit behind the ear but he threw to hurt. Add on to the fact you're arguing a non sequitur, ergo it has nothing to do with anything relevant. Just being a contrarian for no reason at all.


Wow, I had no idea you were so invested in the topic. I thought we were just having a discussion.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

hellholming said:


> but when Anderson first became the champ, people had guys beating him as well before he "legitimized" himself. Give Weidman a chance to prove himself before writing him off.


I haven't wrote him off. If he can prove himself against the other wolves at his door, then things change, he's no longer the weakest champ. He hasn't shown everything he has, so we don't know a lot about what he can do. I'm just saying that right now, you would fancy Weidman's opponents to beat him over anyone else's opponents.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

I think the point is, a lot of use are still a bit shocked at the outcome of the 2 Silva fights and are very interested to see how Chris' skill set matches up with some other very dangerous fighters.

I tend to believe some fighters just have their opponents number. 

Some quick examples would be Pettis and Henderson... Edgar and Penn... Rousey and Tate or even Cain and JDS. 

From the fights we have watched between these competitors, not only have these fighters won their fights... they seem to have stolen something from the other. It's like no matter what happens, they will always have the advantage over that other fighter.


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## MCMAP Wizzard (Feb 5, 2012)

LOL @ "weakest champion", lots of haterade being passed around here. He's coming off back-to-back obliterations of one of the best MMA fighters to date, let's be serious with ourselves here.


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

You can't fight father time...... Unless you cheat


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