# UFC discussion from the past 2



## ZZtigerZZ81

These guys are incredible. There is at least one judge at every UFC event that just pisses me off. The one that scored the Karo v. Diego fight (30 to 26) How can you give every round to Diego. The first Karo had more takedowns and standup was even. Round to Karo. The third is questionable to whether or not it was a 10-8 but Diego certainly did not win every round. 
My main beef is with the Nevada State Fight Commission. THey either need to start sending judges that know what they are doing or UFC needs to give them an ultimatum. This is getting out of hand. Let me know what you think and give more examples of questionable decisions, near or far past.


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## Spit206Fire

Ya the Rashad Evans fight was the same way, was ****ing embaricing to be a fan.

But hey, if u don't want the judges to decide your fight, don't let them.


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## Rush

Rashad won all three rounds but one judge said "draw". These judges are idiots but there are bad judges all around. Some judges for olympics cheat and give the gold to a country that did not win at all. In boxing same thing. In PRIDE it happens to, a lot thought Wanderlei beat Hunt but they gave it to Hunt. They should have no judges and just make a person win the fight in some way by adding unlimited rounds or so.


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## Bonnar426

I think the judges are bad on purpose. Its a way of punishing the fighters for not finishing the fight. They make the bull crap decision and the fighter who lost will be motivated to finish the fight next time. At least thats my theory.


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## CTFlyingKnee

finally someone who agrees with me!!!!!


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## theboz19

Bonnar426 said:


> I think the judges are bad on purpose. Its a way of punishing the fighters for not finishing the fight. They make the bull crap decision and the fighter who lost will be motivated to finish the fight next time. At least thats my theory.


I agree. The fighters should get it through their head that they need to finish the opponent off or they could potentially be screwed. They only have to go 3 rounds. It's not like they are saving themselves for a 12 rounder.


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## Rush

True. They should always bring their A game. If you don't, don't try to bring up excuses for losing such as the judges or whatever else.


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## Kameleon

*They should just make the 1st round 10 minutes, then the 2nd round 5 and the 3rd round 5 also, like in Pride. Let endurance and stamina play a roll in the fights. Make them work for that win. I agree about the theory of punishing fighters for not finishing the fight. Some of the judges are idiots and then sometimes they make the right calls.*


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## WouldLuv2FightU

I hope the punishing theory is right because that's the only good excuse for giving some of the scores they do. Tito Ortiz vs. Forrest Griffin is a good example (one judge 30-27 for Ortiz), Stephan Bonnar vs. Keith Jardine also comes to mind, most of you probably won't agree but Rashad Evans vs. Stephan Bonnar was bullshit but to the untrained eye Rashad did win just like Diego won against Karo. Bas Rutten vs. Kevin Randleman was a controversial call to me but I can see either fighter being the winner, but not a unanimous decision (if it was, I can't remember).

Edit: Kendal Grove vs. Ed Herman was one of the worst calls ever and it just shows you that judges show favoritism towards fighters. Kendal was the most likable and probably the most popular fighter on the show amongst the TUF-Luvers and I think that's why he won because Ed clearly won that fight hands down. And Kendal tapped also so their ya go.


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## Rush

Kevin Randleman beat Bas Rutten with his stupid lay and pray techniques, the judges didn't want to give Randleman the decision though because they probably saw Bas' street fighting tactic video.


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## WouldLuv2FightU

Rush said:


> Kevin Randleman beat Bas Rutten with his stupid lay and pray techniques, the judges didn't want to give Randleman the decision though because they probably saw Bas' street fighting tactic video.



yea haha, also because it was supposed to be his last MMA fight of his career so the judges would feel bad giving him a loss as a final fight.


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## Rush

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> yea haha, also because it was supposed to be his last MMA fight of his career so the judges would feel bad giving him a loss as a final fight.


That was a terrible match watching that. I am a huge Bas fan myself and thought Bas put up a poor performance. He just layed their on the ground with Randleman on top punching him and giving him elbows. Bas sucked in the UFC, really. He was owned by Randleman IMO I don't know how he got the decision I guess because it was his last fight. In that match with Kohsaka he was being owned as well until the over time of the fight he started to realize how bad he was doing that night. I think Bas belongs in PRIDE/Pancrase not inside an octagon and cage because his performances in the UFC were not my favourite. Well that match versus Kohsaka was a great match but he didn't try until the over time of the fight.


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## WouldLuv2FightU

Rush said:


> That was a terrible match watching that. I am a huge Bas fan myself and thought Bas put up a poor performance. He just layed their on the ground with Randleman on top punching him and giving him elbows. Bas sucked in the UFC, really. He was owned by Randleman IMO I don't know how he got the decision I guess because it was his last fight. In that match with Kohsaka he was being owned as well until the over time of the fight he started to realize how bad he was doing that night. I think Bas belongs in PRIDE/Pancrase not inside an octagon and cage because his performances in the UFC were not my favourite. Well that match versus Kohsaka was a great match but he didn't try until the over time of the fight.



Yea that's what Bas is known for in the UFC- being a clutch fighter. He kind of did that for the Randleman fight cuz in the third round he was landing some VICIOUS elbows on the top of Randleman's head for a good amount of time. After than Randleman's hair went from white to red REAL quick haha.


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## kobra ki

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> I hope the punishing theory is right because that's the only good excuse for giving some of the scores they do. Tito Ortiz vs. Forrest Griffin is a good example (one judge 30-27 for Ortiz), Stephan Bonnar vs. Keith Jardine also comes to mind, most of you probably won't agree but Rashad Evans vs. Stephan Bonnar was bullshit but to the untrained eye Rashad did win just like Diego won against Karo. Bas Rutten vs. Kevin Randleman was a controversial call to me but I can see either fighter being the winner, but not a unanimous decision (if it was, I can't remember).
> 
> Edit: Kendal Grove vs. Ed Herman was one of the worst calls ever and it just shows you that judges show favoritism towards fighters. Kendal was the most likable and probably the most popular fighter on the show amongst the TUF-Luvers and I think that's why he won because Ed clearly won that fight hands down. And Kendal tapped also so their ya go.



WouldLuv gets it. Bonnar and Grove were handed victories and Diego Dirty was handed rounds. Forrest Griffin pushed the 2nd and 3rd rounds but showed that he can't land punches other than haymakers. It would be at least honorable if the commentators (like Joe Rogan) started verbalizing doubts in the scorecards.

I've said it on this forum before, some of the judging is not accurate and tends to favor the rising stars.


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## Bonnar426

kobra ki said:


> WouldLuv gets it. Bonnar and Grove were handed victories and Diego Dirty was handed rounds. Forrest Griffin pushed the 2nd and 3rd rounds but showed that he can't land punches other than haymakers. It would be at least honorable if the commentators (like Joe Rogan) started verbalizing doubts in the scorecards.
> 
> I've said it on this forum before, some of the judging is not accurate and tends to favor the rising stars.


I think Rogan started doing it at UFN 5. It was the end of Goulet/Cummo and the commantators brought up the scoring for the Evans/Bonnar fight. Rogan made the comment that the judge who scored that fight 29-29 should be shot. Ironically enough, one of the judges(probably the same one) scoring the Cummo/Goulet bout thought the fight was a 29-29.


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## WouldLuv2FightU

Bonnar426 said:


> I think Rogan started doing it at UFN 5. It was the end of Goulet/Cummo and the commantators brought up the scoring for the Evans/Bonnar fight. Rogan made the comment that the judge who scored that fight 29-29 should be shot. Ironically enough, one of the judges(probably the same one) scoring the Cummo/Goulet bout thought the fight was a 29-29.



HAHAHA Yea I remember when he said that. LOL isn't that kind of illegal? I noticed he wasn't at the next UFC event he was "on assignment". Possibly suspended? Do they do that to commentators?


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## Rush

Lol they should have fired him instead hes annoying and tries to act so smart. Randy Couture is a lot better than an annoying guy who does a reality TV show.


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## Bonnar426

Rush said:


> Lol they should have fired him instead hes annoying and tries to act so smart. Randy Couture is a lot better than an annoying guy who does a reality TV show.


Are you saying they should fire Joe Rogan as commentator and replace him with Randy Couture?


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## WouldLuv2FightU

Yea Rogan tends to repeat himself....

"Chris Leben has an iron chin","Chris Leben has an iron chin","Chris Leben has an iron chin","Chris Leben has an iron chin","Chris Leben has an iron chin","Chris Leben has an iron chin", as quoted from Chris Leben vs. Patrick Cote

"Ken Shamrock has the heart of a lion","Ken Shamrock has the heart of a lion","Ken Shamrock has the heart of a lion","Ken Shamrock has the heart of a lion" as quoted from Ken Shamrock vs. Tito Ortiz 1

And Goldberg just says the goofiest shit. I would love to hang out with Mike Goldberg one day just to see how he really talks and acts. He has hosted The Best Damn Sports Show Period a few times and was really hyper and outspoken.

It's funny at the beginning of each event when you see them both in front of the camera discussing the upcoming fights for the night and Goldberg is like right in Joe's face talking and Joe looks so uncomfortable and looks like he is about to bust out laughing every event. It cracks me up everytime. It looks so awkward for Joe. Goldberg always has his head cocked down talking in that voice and using way too many big words and extra adjectives and other smaller unneeded words.:laugh:


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## Rush

Bonnar426 said:


> Are you saying they should fire Joe Rogan as commentator and replace him with Randy Couture?


Yes thats exactly what I'm saying. Heck Randy Couture is better at commentator then Bas Rutten.


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## Bonnar426

I'm all for it then! Wouldluv2fight is right when he says Rogan is redandant.


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## ZZtigerZZ81

*Why do people hate fighters?*

This thread was started in response to the thread regarding Matt Hughes. 

What is so great about BJ Penn?
First, there is the fact that he has beaten no one. Especially if you take into consideration "Matt Hughes isn't great." He beat Caol Uno in 2001 and the last time they fought it was a draw. He lost to Jens Pulver, Georges, St. Pierre, and Ryoto "Lyoto" Machida. He beat Serra (wow who hasn't), Din Thomas (another great accomplishment), Takanori Gomi (a legit win) and Renzo Gracie (not even a good Gracie).

BJ is a terrible fighter after round 1. He will be beaten by even mediocre fighters if it goes the distance because he does not have the discipline to train hard or the heart to give it his all. 

Then there is his rediculous nickname. The Prodigy, his prophetic or marvelous significance came when he won the World Jiu-Jitsu Championship and became the first American. That is a great accomplishment and I give him all the props in the world for that. But he is not the best thing to happen to the MMA world. 

Let it be known that I do not dislike BJ Penn...I am just tired of the lovefest that people have with this guy. I have been a fan of the UFC and MMA since 1995 when I saw my first fight with my father. I have never competed, but have taken martial arts classes. I think of myself as a knowledgable person on this sport and love where it has gone in the past five years. I do not like people hating a fighter for the hell of it. Every fighter thinks he is the best in the world, it is a prerequisite. But every fighter will be beaten. To be a true champion you must know how to lose. And Hughes has proven his worth as a champion because day in and day out this guy works his arse off to be where he is. He fights his hardest every fight and will fight anyone they put in front of him. He can only fight who Dana lets him fight and if they are nobodys then so be it. That makes it harder for him to wake up every morning and go the gym and train to fight someone that you know you are better than. 

BJ can't even go to the gym or dojo to train to fight GSP for the chance to fight HUghes. 

Champions are measured also by what they do out of the ring (octagon) and Hughes has been a champion. BJ will need to step up his training to take that away from him. I hope Hughes wins this fight so they get another fight.

Let it be known that I am not a Matt Hughes fan...I am an objective 3rd party and think this fight will be a great one. Classic matchup. Death to these haters...no matter who they hate unless it is Nick Diaz. (J/K) Though I do like seeing him get beat.


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## Evil

Get ready to meet some future friends after that post. Freedom of speach is in effect. :thumbsup:


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## ZZtigerZZ81

This wasn't a post to rebutt anything that was said. The title read why do people hate fighters (reread if necessary). BJ and Matt both have flaws. If BJ is so great why did he let those fights go to decsions. He should have beat them. Your opinion is the descenting opinion and doesn't even matter whe it comes to judges. Judges don't usually get every fight wrong. I was not stating that Hughes is the best fighter in the world or that BJ is the worst. I was simply stating BJ is not the best and Hughes has earned everyhting he has gotten. If BJ wnats it he gets his chance in a few weeks. Hope he is ready because if this fight goes more than one round he will need to be. Hughes doesn't quit. 

It should also be know that Penn was the fastes AMERICAN to reach black belt in Jiu-Jitsu ever not the fastest ever.


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## WouldLuv2FightU

Well I'm not gonna yell at you ZZtiger BUT I will share my opinion about what you said about BJ. For one, BJ's losses and 1 draw were all completely biased decisions. He lost to Lyoto Machida, but guess what, Lyoto is a light heavyweight, BJ is a Lightweight/Welterweight and for him to go the distance and "lose" a decision with a light heavyweight who beat Rich Franklin in just a few minutes, does not deserve to get put down for the loss. He beat Jens, although I like Jens, that was a bad decision, and as much as I also like GSP, BJ clearly won that fight. I was waiting for someone to start talkin about BJ since I made that Hughes thread. Also I don't know how many different times I need to repeat this but I don't hate Matt Hughes for one. And two, I know Dana is the one who controls his fights, that was my whole arguement to begin with is that Dana and Zuffa pick and choose their champions by matching them up with worse opponents. 

Another thing ZZtiger is I have a hard time believing you know ANYTHING about Matt Hughes outside the Octagon so you can't really use that argument cuz you're just going by what SpikeTV is showing you. 

And the thing about his "rediculous nickname"...I don't understand what you're talking about. He got the nickname Prodigy because he won so many tournaments and got his black belt in BJJ so much faster than most other BJJ students. All "Prodigy" means by defintion is an extraordinary talent or ability. It doesn't mean "the best thing to happen to MMA" like you stated.

BJ Penn's wins are all against much tougher opponents and his losses were bullshit. Matt has not beaten any top contender the way BJ has. BJ beat Takanori Gomi and Hughes with an RNC so that right there tells me BJ is better than Matt. Matt has a lot of wins on his record, but I guarantee if you filter out all the people who you've never heard of or just plain suck, he would have the same kind of record BJ has.


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## WouldLuv2FightU

Oh and BTW ZZtiger, the next time you say "death to these haters" will be your last. I do not appreciate a subtle death threat in any way.


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## ZZtigerZZ81

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> Well I'm not gonna yell at you ZZtiger BUT I will share my opinion about what you said about BJ. For one, BJ's losses and 1 draw were all completely biased decisions. He lost to Lyoto Machida, but guess what, Lyoto is a light heavyweight, BJ is a Lightweight/Welterweight and for him to go the distance and "lose" a decision with a light heavyweight who beat Rich Franklin in just a few minutes, does not deserve to get put down for the loss. He beat Jens, although I like Jens, that was a bad decision, and as much as I also like GSP, BJ clearly won that fight. I was waiting for someone to start talkin about BJ since I made that Hughes thread. Also I don't know how many different times I need to repeat this but I don't hate Matt Hughes for one. And two, I know Dana is the one who controls his fights, that was my whole arguement to begin with is that Dana and Zuffa pick and choose their champions by matching them up with worse opponents.
> 
> Another thing ZZtiger is I have a hard time believing you know ANYTHING about Matt Hughes outside the Octagon so you can't really use that argument cuz you're just going by what SpikeTV is showing you.
> 
> And the thing about his "rediculous nickname"...I don't understand what you're talking about. He got the nickname Prodigy because he won so many tournaments and got his black belt in BJJ so much faster than most other BJJ students. All "Prodigy" means by defintion is an extraordinary talent or ability. It doesn't mean "the best thing to happen to MMA" like you stated.
> 
> BJ Penn's wins are all against much tougher opponents and his losses were bullshit. Matt has not beaten any top contender the way BJ has. BJ beat Takanori Gomi and Hughes with an RNC so that right there tells me BJ is better than Matt. Matt has a lot of wins on his record, but I guarantee if you filter out all the people who you've never heard of or just plain suck, he would have the same kind of record BJ has.


I know how hard he trains because of what I have read on the internet and in magazines. I also know what prodigy means as evidenced by my line stating BJ has reached his peak when he became the youngest JJ black belt. 

Is reading comprehension that bad on this site. PEOPLE READ AND THEN REREAD IF NECESSARY. LET THE INFORMATION SINK IN AND THEN FORM YOUR WRITTEN ATTACKS AGAINST THE GUY WHO KNOWS NOTHING. Apparently that is me. To say BJ won that fight against St. Pierre is clearly a biased argument and nearly nulllifies any other point you made in your post. He beat St. Pierre in the first round and that is it. St. Pierre then began to strategically take apart "the Prodigy". As for the Machida fight I never once stated that Penn was any worse of a fighter because he lost to Machida. That guy is a fantastic LHW and would have his way with many UFC LHW. I simply listed in his loss column. The fact is that it took him only seconds to dispose of Franklin (who is actually my favorite fighter) not minutes as you suggested. 

Okay, BJ lost to GSP and even if he didn't he didn't submit him as Hughes did. So the like opponent they had Hughes wins that battle. Now you say BJ beat Hughes. So we are back and forth. I am again not stating that BJ is a terrible or even bad fighter. Only an idiot would suggest that. I am also not stating that Hughes is a great or even good fighter. I am simply stating that Hughes is the WW champion and has done everything he needed to do to get that title. It wasn't his fight BJ left the UFC. Now they get a chance to settle the score. Truth is I rarely watch anything spike TV has on. I am glad that the UFC has made it where it has because there are a lot more fights to watch. I am unable to see the pride replays because Florida does not offer FSN on cable. So I have to settle for what I can get. I buy every Pride pay-per-view, every K-1 pay-per-view, every MMA pay-per-view. So to make personal attakcs regarding my knowledge when you know nothing about me is just childish and goes to show your level of character. I am sorry if you perceived anyhting I saod as a threat in previous post. I assure that I threatened no one and unless you are no one you shouldn't feel threatened. 

He lost to Jens Pulver, he did not beat him. He has lost two of his last three. ANY GREAT FIGHTER WOULD NOT ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN no matter who his opponents are. 

THE POST WAS NOT AN ATACK ON BJ OR STATE THAT HUGHES WAS ANY BETTER THAN HIM. IT ASKS WHY DO PEOPLE HATE FIGHTERS? THEN GOES ON TO ASK WHAT IS SO GREAT ABOUT BJ? THEN GOES ON TO STATE MY OPINION THAT HUGHES HAS EARNED WHAT HE HAS GOTTEN. THEN QUESTIONS BJ'S WORK ETHIC. OPINIONS ARE SCATTERED THROUGHOUT. BUT NONE STATE THAT HUGHES IS ANY BETTER THAN BJ OR VICE VERSA.


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## ZZtigerZZ81

MMA freak said:


> Just because someone dislikes Matt Hughes (and gives out good points that should be acknowledged) doesn't mean you have to go on saying BJ sucks in these weird ways saying he drawed with Caol Uno and then issuing a death threat. Not to mention BJ humiliated Hughes in 4 minutes!


PLEASE REFER TO THE POST AGAIN BECAUSE I DID NOT STATE THAT BJ SUCKS.


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## ZZtigerZZ81

YOU BASICALLY HAVE NO READING COMPREHENSION. I never said or implied such. You just interpreted it that way. I apologize for misleading you. I do not think BJ sux. Only a fool would. I simply do not think he is the best fighter in the world. 

It is sad that all of us old true fans of the UFC think TUF is the worst thing to happen to this sport. Sure most of the guys on the show suck compared to many other fighters but it is sad that new fans hate the old fighters and old fans hate the new fighters. I form my opinions by what takes place in the ring and what has been said by each fighter before and after the fight. I do not hate any fighters (close to hating Nick Diaz though). A lot of fighters suck but neither Hughes nor Penn will ever fall into that category.


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## Keithpas

I'm a BJ Penn fan and I think he has a good chance of winning against Hughes but I did'nt take ZZTigers posts as hating on BJ any more than the "Whats so Great about Matt Hughes " thread was hating on Hughes. The great thing about fights are that eventually all of the speculation will end in Octagon (or the ring, if we're talking Pride FC). When BJ fought GSP I was a little suprised that BJ did'nt press the action more in Rnds 2/3. BJ clearly had the advantage standing (GSP's face was the evidence for this) and I know he is a phenomenal BJJ fighter. I could'nt understand why he kept letting GSP crowd him into the cage. I like to think that BJ lost that fight more than GSP won it but I think the decision was legit. GSP kept getting points for all those takedowns. I am not familiar enough with BJ's other losses by decision to have an opinion.


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## WouldLuv2FightU

OK first off lemme say I know Jens beat BJ, I meant I thought BJ should have won that fight just like the St. Pierre fight. And you are the one saying I hated Hughes when I don't so don't get upset when everyone thinks you hate BJ cuz of this thread, I know how it feels just like I don't hate Matt. I also don't recall saying you don't know anything about MMA . All I'm doing is disagreeing with you're thought about BJ as many have disagreed with my thoughts on Matt. The truth is they're both great fighters. Matt is good but BJ is better *or he as at least proved it against tougher opponents*.

And as to you saying all that stuff about people not being able to comprehend is dumb because: 
1.) I never said I hated Hughes, in fact I said I didn't hate him in 2 posts
2.) I never said you didn't know anything about MMA
3.) I never said that you claimed BJ was a horrible fighter just for losing to Machida

Oh and also if you don't want people to think you hate BJ then there's absolutely no reason to use that decent arguement and then throw in some stupid pointless comment about his nickname.

And one more thing for the record you're quote "To say BJ won that fight against St. Pierre is clearly a biased argument and nearly nulllifies any other point you made in your post." is THE most moronic and contradicting statement you could have made. I think BJ won that fight, you think GSP won that fight, either way it's a fu.ckin opinion so really that little rule of yours about my opinion nullifying the facts should also go for you to! What makes your opinion any different from mine asshole!? When you say GSP won it too is a biased arguement so screw you smart guy.


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## ZZtigerZZ81

Great post Keithpas. I agree completely.

I made this thread in response to the thread "Top 5 fighters you hate in the UFC". Not the Matt Hughes thread. Though I admit that (in retrospect) did unknowingly influence a lot of what was said in the beginning.


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## ZZtigerZZ81

My opinion is different from your on that fight because it is objective. BJ was not my favorite fighter nor was GSP. Just because some guy bleeds doesn't mean he lost. Look at the way to get points. GSP did a lot more to win the fight in rounds 2 and 3. That is why it nullifies any points you made because you can't put aside your love of BJ to realize and admit that he lost. Everyone knows it. Even Hughes said it to Dana after the decision was announced. And you know Hughes wanted to fight BJ.


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## WouldLuv2FightU

Well I know a lot of people who think BJ won that fight, it's not just me. I actually think the best decision would have been a draw. GSP did get some takedowns but BJ also should get a shitload of credit for getting up right away and neutralizing the ground and pound. Just cuz you take someone down doesn't mean you're the better fighter, it just means you're stronger. Just like Rashad Evans he didn't ground and pound his opponent. Bas Rutten won a decision while being on his back the whole fight so why is it so hard for you to believe BJ won that fight event though he was only on his back for a total of a few minutes. If you get back up from a takedown without getting hit on the ground, then that takedown should be disregarded. Just because GSP is physically stronger doesn't mean he's a better fighter. BJ was the better fighter in that particular fight. Also GSP is one of my favorites too so that "nullifies your blah blah blah".



ZZtigerzz81 said:


> I made this thread in response to the thread "Top 5 fighters you hate in the UFC". Not the Matt Hughes thread.


Dude that is so wrong it's funny^:laugh: 

The very first sentence in your very first post said "I made this thread in response to the Matt Hughes thread"

You're not fooling anyone you *did* make this thread because I made the Hughes thread so stop trying to justify something by lying when it doesn't need justified to begin with. You're entitled to your opinion so you're not wrong, but my opinion is that you are wrong, but that's my opinion and your opinion is that my opinion about your opinion being wrong is wrong, in my opinion of course. Get it?


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## TheJame

Damn, you guys make these forums FUN. 

STFU.


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## Evil

Nice line at the end there WouldLuv2FightU. had to read it 3 times to get it, its in the middle of the night over here so my eyes are abit blurry


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## Steve-d

MMA freak said:


> What the heck tigerZZ first you say you don't hate BJ then you say "this thread is a response to the top 5 fighters you hate in the UFC". And you also mentioned at the beginning "This is a response to the Matt Hughes thread". Make up your mind and stop covering things up, its ridicolous.


hahah thats funny.

Personall i hav nothing against ZZTiger and i dont me and him to get into some stupid argument but i think its funny how you tried to justify your MMA knowledge because you order every k-1, pride and mma event.


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## moldy

There was to much trash talking going on for me to read every post. I got a headache. Basically everyone should keep there lips shut about the BJ, GSP, and hughes until we see what happens. It's way to close to be able to honestly tell. It really is. BJ and GSP had a great fight gsp won but won't face hughes. If bj wins that doesn't mean GSP would have. They will all fight eachother and the fighting will cease and being a moderator will get less stressful. (as soon as wand and chuck fight 2)


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## Grey

Guys how about I end the discussion here the bottom line is people hate on other fighters because it makes watching and following mma more fun. Also BJ did lose to st. pierre in a fair decision. I honestly wanted BJ to win so the title shot with Hughes would be more exciting. But he won round 1 and lost 2 and 3 period. Also when you talk about people being robbed in decisions thats just part of the sport deal with it. A loss is a loss. As far as who is better right now Matt is better He is the champ. Right now the Steelers are the best team in the NFL the won the Super Bowl last year. Until the season starts they are the champs. Thats how I look at it. Until BJ takes the title he isnt better. Im stoked to see the rematch.


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## WouldLuv2FightU

Grey said:


> Right now the Steelers are the best team in the NFL the won the Super Bowl last year. Until the season starts they are the champs. Thats how I look at it. Until BJ takes the title he isnt better. Im stoked to see the rematch.


Yes but the Steelers also get too much credit, the refs won the SuperBowl last year so they deserve the credit :laugh: Sorry had to throw that in there since I'm a Bengals fan, it was just for fun though I'm not trying to get under your skin...

But what was the purpose of this thread anyway ZZtigerZZ81? Are you supposed to be trying to figure out why people hate fighters? Why does it matter? Even though I never said I hated Matt Hughes and I don't hate him, what's wrong with disliking a fighter? Sounds like a pointless question really since you say you don't really like Nick Diaz...I dislike fighters because of different reasons. You can dislike a fighter for their attitude, their abilities, their styles, anything at all. Why do you dislike Diaz? You act like it's a surprise that a competitor is disliked in a competitive sport. People dislike competitors in every sport, it's natural and instinctive probably cuz everyone has at least one athlete or even a whole team of athletes they dislike and this has been going on forever. That being said, I don't think you would be dumb enough to actually ask such an obvious and pointless question which tells me you were trying to start an arguement. More evidence of this shows in your pointless and childish comment about BJ Penn's nickname. Yea his nickname is a great arguement as to why people hate fighters. Makes perfect sense.:thumbsdown:


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## CTFlyingKnee

The Steelers arent going to do as well this year as they did last year, look for a suprise team to coe out of the woodwork, such as the Miami Dolphins.....they are going to make a BIG impact and win the AFC East........anyway

I hate on some fighters because I dont like their attitude towards fighting, the fans, the media, everything. Some guys are just too cocky to realize it themselves. Some are just complete assholes in front of the camera because they think it looks cool. Yes, its ok to trash talk your opponent, to an extent, but when you're Josh Koscheck, and you start making hand motions around your waist that you want the belt, come on guy, be serious. I dont mind arrogance, and cockiness to an extent, its natural, but some dudes just take it too far. I also dont like guys who cheat their way to the top (Sylvia, Barnett, Tanner (vs. Baroni) )


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## ZZtigerZZ81

Okay, wouldluv2fightu, I admit that I went back on what was originally posted. I began writing the first post after reading your thread about Hughes. I wrote and rewrote that thread a few times so i do not remember everything that actually made it to the final cut. I do know what I was thinking when I wrote every single post and it is by all means possible to have influence from more than one thread. That may be out of your realm of thinking though. 

I never justifed my knowledge of MMA by saying I order K-1, pride, and ufc pay-per-views, I said that in response to someone assuming I only get my info from what spike TV shows. 

This thread was in fact, started with those two previously mentioned threads in mind. The word hate came from the top 5 thread and that is where the question came from. It was never once taken from the Hughes thread. I am sorry for letting you think I got it from there. 

I have the utmost respect for your opinion that disagrees with my opinion. Yes, I got what you said. Your opinion is valued and that is why I started this thread. No one ever knows enough about MMA and the only way to gain more knowledge is to ask questions. 

I never competed because I don't have what it takes to go into a ring, octagon, or anywhere else and fight someone that I do not know. 

Thank you to the one person that actually answered the question at hand, which was WHY DO PEOPLE HATE FIGHTERS? To everyone else that missed the point of this thread though maybe you will repost your opinion regarding the question. 

MMA freak and wouldluv2fightu, I again apologize for the confusion that I caused you throughout this thread. I simply stated my opinion about BJ, threw in some comic relief about his nickname, and asked a question about hatred towards fighters. I wonder if this hatred is for real. Like if you guys saw them on the street you wouldn't go up to them and ask for an autograph or training questions. Or would you make fun of them or not even go up to them. 

I agree about the point that BJ did a great job defending takedowns and preventing any offense from GSP. Unfortunately, the rules in the UFC do not give points to someone for that. So just because your opinion is that it should be that way so therefore you are right and Bj did win, does not make any sense. He knew the rules and the point system going into the bout and if he didn't then that is his fault and he can go train with the other fighters that don't like Nick Diaz (Nick said that after his latest win). But just because you think that should nullify points for the other fighter or give points to that fighter is a moot point.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

*What will they do for Ace*

After Franklin beats Silva and Loiseau beats Swick then what will they do for Franklin. Let him fight Leben or The Crow again. The middleweight division looked promising for a while now it looks to be a complete disaster. The heavyweights have more legit contenders. Because anyone is a contender against Sylvia if they can get it to the mat.

Let me know what you guys think.


----------



## FunkDoctor

1) The winner of this season's TUF will fight Rich next

2) Don't count out Swick so soon....DL is a tough guy but Mike looks legit.

3) It seems everyone has clearly forgotten about Marquardt who was supposed to be in there before any of the other names mentioned.

4) After all these 3 things have happened you don't know what talent may have developed or if Rich even kept his belt. You never know who the UFC signs between now and then, plus you have no idea if there is a talent in the looming. 

5) Although this would probably be the least likely scenario, don't forget Babalu has fought @ 185pds.

There is plenty of talent for Rich to fight @ 185, don't worry.


----------



## TheJame

I'd like to see Jeremy Horn fight Franklin at 185. That could be a pretty damn good fight.


----------



## jdun11

TheJame said:


> I'd like to see Jeremy Horn fight Franklin at 185. That could be a pretty damn good fight.


would never happen..they are very close friends...thats one of the reasons horn left the ufc..the middleweight division.is a joke, if silva doesnt beat rich..he is gonna be champ for a long time


----------



## pt447

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> After Franklin beats Silva and Loiseau beats Swick then what will they do for Franklin. Let him fight Leben or The Crow again. The middleweight division looked promising for a while now it looks to be a complete disaster. The heavyweights have more legit contenders. Because anyone is a contender against Sylvia if they can get it to the mat.
> 
> Let me know what you guys think.


well, its hard to tell, since Franklin beating Silva is a big assumption. i'm not basing my opinion on anderson's **** of Leben, but on his past fights. sure he's not the greatest fighter in the word, but out of anyone to face franklin in a long time, Silva's got the biggest chance. the guy is legitimately mean and has a very good natural fight style. what i mean by that is that where Franklins is an example of perfect, crips technique, and that is what wins his fights, Silva just has a great set of reactions and prowess in the ring. 

either way, the fight will be the best on its card and prolly of the whole UFC's of the year!


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

Yeah you are right about the win b/w Franklin and Silva being an assumption. I know about Marquardt and I thought I mentioned him but I guess that was a different post. He is a good fighter and would be another of the better match-ups against Ace but he is boring and that is probably why he qon't get a shot soon. 

I am familiar with Silva's fight history and he is the #1 contender in my eyes. Swick is not on their level yet and probably wouldn't even win the current UF (Comeback) show. Loiseau will most likely beat him with his nasty elbows. 

Silva certainly has a chance and I never counted himm out. Hell, DL almost KO'ed Ace. I just think that because lots of fighters will get a shot at the title doesn't mean the division doesn't suck. 

It is extremely top heavy; kind of like the Pac-10 (USC is only good team).


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

What is stopping Ace from moving back up to 205 and taking the belt there? I think he would have a good shot. he destroyed the World's Most Dangerous Man.


----------



## Steve-d

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> I buy every Pride pay-per-view, every K-1 pay-per-view, every MMA pay-per-view. So to make personal attakcs regarding my knowledge when you know nothing about me is just childish and goes to show your level of character.


thats all i have to say to ZZtiger.

MMA Freak, stop being so paranoid of coarse my response was directed toward the thread starter not you, you dont need to call me out on this thread or send me private messages.

I dont thin you read things allt he way threw, since you missed zztiger saying that stuff about ordering paperviews and then you missed in my thread where i specifically said i dont want to start a fight with zztiger but..........

So how on earth could it be directed toward you when i specifically said i was not trying to start with ZZ?


----------



## CTFlyingKnee

ConorM said:


> im a big fan of franklin, the best contender to beating chuck liddell right now is rich at 205.


shut up

......................anyway, after swick (hopefully) beats The Crow, he should be in line for the title shot...well after the TUF guy fights Ace........as much as I like Leben, his name shouldnt even be mentioned with some of these studs yet


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

I hope Swick does win against Loiseau but I don't see it happening.


----------



## Python

how can you not see swick winning. he is fast enough that if he gets a couple of good jabs in to stun then bring the rain. still should be a good fight. 
Rich is going to be champ for a while, i cant see anyone at this time with enough heart and skill to take it.


----------



## moldy

I want to see evan tanner take another run. he looked good in his last fight and i think he could put together a decent game plan and maybe take rich down if silva doesn't.


----------



## Spit206Fire

Ya i was just going to say that.

Tanners an excellent fighter and most of all a gammer, he doesn't quit and has a ton of heart.

Personally i think TUF 4 would be a REALLY badass show if they had guys like Tanner, Beroni, Nick Diaz, Robbie Lawler, Mayhem Miller, and others like that. others that have good records and hold legit good wins.

But w/e aparently guys like Shonie Carter can hold there own against BJ Penn or Matt Hughes lol, when they get murder'd its going to be very embarissing for Dana White lol.


----------



## moldy

Shonie carter isn't horrible. His last fight in the UFC he was drunk and hi. He had a problem and hopefully he's worked it out.


----------



## TheJame

What a coincidence, I was drunk and high in my last fight too!


----------



## Conor M

CTFlyingKnee said:


> shut up
> 
> ......................anyway, after swick (hopefully) beats The Crow, he should be in line for the title shot...well after the TUF guy fights Ace........as much as I like Leben, his name shouldnt even be mentioned with some of these studs yet


just so you know rich used to fight at 205 before he came down to middleweight there fuc.kface...theres no reason why dana wouldnt bring him up to 205 to challenge chuck after liddell he beats the fuc.k outa tito ortiz


----------



## Punishment 101

Conor M said:


> just so you know rich used to fight at 205 before he came down to middleweight there fuc.kface...theres no reason why dana wouldnt bring him up to 205 to challenge chuck after liddell he beats the fuc.k outa tito ortiz


dude the guy your callling a '****face' (prettty mature of you btw) is 10x more knowledgable in the sport of mma then you , show some god damn respect you clown


----------



## Conor M

shut the **** up dude i dont need to respect anybody on this site, no one here actually fights, u guys are all ****in nerds that sit at home and post forums all day.......hopefully one day i can quit my job move into my moms basement and call ppl "noobs" on the internet like everyone here

rich franklin at 205 has a better chance of beating liddell than tito, in the future dana will bring him up to LH to challenge liddell cus no one in that weight class right now is gonna beat chuck


----------



## Punishment 101

MMA freak said:


> ConorM why do you keep coming back, your only temporarily banned so you don't need to get yourself permanently banned by creating more accounts. But I must agree your smarter than Punishment 101 who is a FightQ reject, the worst MMA site on the web home of the kids.



hahaah coming from a kid who had to make 2 acccounts to TRY and be more liked hhahahah bro stfu you're too dumb to deal with

http://www.mmaforum.com/introductions-greets/2281-confession.html#post21264


----------



## Punishment 101

just check out wouldlove2fightU's classsic sig



> Originally Posted by MMA freak
> Why does everyone keep calling me Rush, that guy sounds like a retard at least I have class and manners


you got issssues bud :dunno:


----------



## CTFlyingKnee

soooo how bout that Rich Franklin?


----------



## Conor M

yea punishment 101 is a fuc.kin ***...so are u MMA Freak


----------



## Conor M

i think im gonna stop posting on tis site cus after awhile reading people's posts I've begin to notice that everyone here on this site is a fuc.kin loser and you guys all pretend to be fighters but you are all like 13 year old nerds that get picked on att school or 36 year old virgins that just sit on the computer and and post all day. u guys are all fuc.kin **** get job and stop pretending that u guys fight MMA...stop using the word "noob" too it blows your cover u fuc.kin geeks (punishmetn 101 and MMA Freak)


----------



## Conor M

Pride Fc sucks


----------



## Conor M

u guys have small pen.ises


----------



## Conor M

A confession 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello all people. I've come to confess on this forum that I MMAfreak am the old and now retired user known as Rush.

The reason why I created a new account was to do some soul searching, begin a new path, be a lot nicer and knowledgeable therefore be more respected then the joke called Rush.

But everyone was smart enough to figure it out. For now on you can call me my new name and moderator MMA freak instead of that joke called Rush. Thank you everyone and I apoligize if I lied to anyone because my main objective was to make people not find out I was Rush.





kill yourself


----------



## Punishment 101

are you done crying yet noob ? :cheeky4:


----------



## Conor M

are you done crying yet noob ? 


hahaha


----------



## Bonnar426

If the crow beats Swick, he will probably get a rematch with Ace!


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

*Thoughts about cockiness..*

I see a lot of people criticizing fighters for being cocky.

My thoughts are this: If you are the best at what you do you have a right to be cocky. So long as when your a$$ gets handed to you (and it will), you own up to it. 

The people who are the best at what they do are always cocky. Hell, back in college when I worked at a restaurant, I was the best server there and I got a little full of myself. Pulled some good leg too. Being cocky pays off if you ask me.:cheeky4: :cheeky4:


----------



## americanfighter

I dont like cocky people. there should be respect between fighters but you dont have respect for other fighters when your that cocky. It also makes you blind see what happened to Royce talking about bjj was the best style this my house .when he fought Matt got his bjj ass whiped thats what happened. and when you put cockyness into the picture it turns into a drama. If people like tito ortiz keep coming this will endup being profetional wrestling. Like ken said you can't spawn that kind of charecter in the ufc. Then it becomes about the drama insted of the fights. That is why I want Samrock to beat titos face in. This is the ufc not a soap opera.


----------



## jtsblacksrt4

I agree, I can't stand cockiness. If you watched the next Octagon Girl show I liked Kendall Groves answer when the chick asked about trash talking. Kendall just said I stay humble and let the fists do the talking. I gain a lot of respect for people like that.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

I agree with you to an extent. I am saying that people at the top (Hughs, Franklin, Liddell, etc.) have a right to be cocky. I think it will sell more fights than those with no build-up of people talking smack. 

But there is certainly a fine line. Tito gets a bad rep for his cockiness. People defend Hughes for his but insult Tito at the same time. Tito talks just as much smack as anyone else. Especially the fighters he is noted for. Metzger called him a boy in a man's game. Tito just responded. But when Tito got his a$$ handed to him he owned up to it. He didn't make excuses. He knows what happened.

As far as the drama part, it is good for the UFC to fil time but I would rather be watching the other fights instead of a bunch a dudes talking about what they have been doing to prepare or how they will win or how they think the other fighter is terrible. Because nowadays it is always just about the exact same thing being said over and over.

Tito is at the very least the most creative smack talker.


----------



## Damone

Nothing wrong with a little confidence.

Now, Egan Inoue parading around, and acting like he belongs in the same ring as Guy Mezger is annoying. Mezger quickly dismantled him, which proves that if you're going to be cocky, then atleast show some skill.


----------



## pt447

i think there's a difference between being cocky, when it is mild, yet still effective, and someone like Diego... that guy's gotta stop listening to his God!


----------



## Bonnar426

I think Matt Hughes cockiness is what turns me off about him! Even though he deserves to be cocky it still annoys the hell out of me! That's why I hope everytime he gets into the octagon that his opponent will kick his head and knock him out cold! 

It's also one of many reasons why I can't stand Tim Sylvia! Unlike Matt Hughes, Tim Syliva doesn't deserve to be cocky at all! He's a C- fighter that uses his reach as an advantage!


----------



## Bonnar426

americanfighter said:


> I dont like cocky people. there should be respect between fighters but you dont have respect for other fighters when your that cocky. It also makes you blind see what happened to Royce talking about bjj was the best style this my house .when he fought Matt got his bjj ass whiped thats what happened. and when you put cockyness into the picture it turns into a drama. If people like tito ortiz keep coming this will endup being profetional wrestling. Like ken said you can't spawn that kind of charecter in the ufc. Then it becomes about the drama insted of the fights. That is why I want Samrock to beat titos face in. This is the ufc not a soap opera.


Ken Shamrock creates the same amount of drama as Tito, if not more!


----------



## Esotera

They really don't air too much trash talking. It is only filler for the main events while theyre setting up live events (or commercials). Until UFC becomes a free weekly thing (which won't happen), the trash talking will be minimal for the events you pay for.


----------



## *IceMAn*

A fighter is a fighter. when you are in a sport as intense as mma you need to be aggressive but you can not over do it. If you feel that you can defeat the oppenent in front of you say so or do it but don't start verbally attacking him and trying to run him down. Those who are cocky, I think are just trying to mask their own fears.


----------



## asskicker

Bonnar426 said:


> Ken Shamrock creates the same amount of drama as Tito, if not more!


Ken does cause more drama than Tito. He caused it all on TUF 3 and hes the one that kicked the chair when Tito laughed at his ridiculous comment. Im sure theres more but I cant think of any right now


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

*Fitch vs. Diego*

Let's face it, it is going to be a ong time before Diego can get a title shot. GSP, then TUF 4 guy, then if GSP wins Hughes wil get a rubber match. So I say they keep Diego interested and put him against Fitch. That would be a good fight. Fitch just keeps building his resume and getting better and better. Not any near ready for a title shot but getting there.

How do you guys think it would go?


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

*Where is Bisping?*

When is he going to fight next? I hope they put this guy in there soon. I love him. I would love to see him fight Forrest. Probably the two most likable guys in the UFC. They just so happen to be in the same weight class too. It can't be easier to set up matches then that, Dana. Come on.

What do you guys think about it?


----------



## Spit206Fire

I was listening to Sherdog radio, i heard he's fighting in Nov UFN on main card, they didn say who he was fighting though.


----------



## MMA1990

Spit206Fire said:


> I was listening to Sherdog radio, i heard he's fighting in Nov UFN on main card, they didn say who he was fighting though.


I hear he's fighting Eric Shafer.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

sweet, I can't wait to see how he compares to someone who should be in the UFC, if they put him against someone like that at least.


----------



## libertywrestler

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> When is he going to fight next? I hope they put this guy in there soon. I love him. I would love to see him fight Forrest. Probably the two most likable guys in the UFC. They just so happen to be in the same weight class too. It can't be easier to set up matches then that, Dana. Come on.
> 
> What do you guys think about it?


awesome idea bisbing with the tko 1st or 2nd round forrest is overrated sorry


----------



## thepin420ufc

bisping vs forrest would be great i think it woulld be action packed with bisping wining a close decision


----------



## MMA1990

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Let's face it, it is going to be a ong time before Diego can get a title shot. GSP, then TUF 4 guy, then if GSP wins Hughes wil get a rubber match. So I say they keep Diego interested and put him against Fitch. That would be a good fight. Fitch just keeps building his resume and getting better and better. Not any near ready for a title shot but getting there.
> 
> How do you guys think it would go?


This would be an exciting fight but I hear Diego has to demolish Riggs first but I can certainly see this fight happening.


----------



## Choke_Wire

great match up. too fighters at the top of there game and a good way of setting up a shot at the belt


----------



## WouldLuv2FightU

It would be a good fight but I think Diego is a little too aggressive for Fitch to handle. Fitch looked fantastic tonight though so it would definately be an interesting fight.


----------



## JWangSDC

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> It would be a good fight but I think Diego is a little too aggressive for Fitch to handle. Fitch looked fantastic tonight though so it would definately be an interesting fight.



Agree with everything you siad. Plus I think Diego is alreay ahead of the line as far as title shots go. Fitch may have to fight hughes or Penn in teh near future; and that's not going to end well for him.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

I don't understand how Dana is going to keep his fighters happy if he keeps setting up bogus title matches. Who on TUF 4 could beat Hughes (maybe St. Pierre) or Franklin (now Silva)? I mean seriously. Terrible decision Dana. And this Sylvia and Monson match-up some on. IS that like a 13" reach advantage. Sylvia has the reach of an orangutang. Monson has the reach proportional to a T-rex. 

I think Diego's constant pressure would help him. I assure you there would not be any shortage of action in this one. These guys love to pursue. If Fitch could keep it standing, and I don't see why he wouldn't be able too. I think he could win by KO. Especially if he keeps improving ant the same rate. The guy is apparently a sponge because he is learning fast. I also amm going to go out on a limb and say he is a better wrestler than Diego. Division 1 captain at Purdue and it shows.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

*What is going to happen in the LW division?*

Since SHerk won I haven't heard anything about who will fight next in this division. Anyone know what is going to happen or heard any rumors?


----------



## untaken_moniker

Well, it's only been a week since Sherk became champ  
Spencer Fisher and Melvin Guilard are on their way up though. Possible that they may fight to determine who gets a shot at Sherk in the future


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

I would love to see that. I think Melvin Guillard could give Fisher the a$$whoopin he deserves.


----------



## thetotalpackage

naw, fisher is too technical for melvin, melvin is straight brawler....would be amazing to see


----------



## jaymackz

I wish Yves Edwards was still in the UFC....he's one explosive fighter.... =/..


----------



## AtomDanger

I thought they were giving Jens Pulver a shot at the title from Sherk???


----------



## flourhead

AtomDanger said:


> I thought they were giving Jens Pulver a shot at the title from Sherk???


he doesnt deserve a title shot


----------



## AtomDanger

flourhead said:


> he doesnt deserve a title shot



Umm, how so? Because he caught a loss????

He was still the last LW champion, and never lost it...


----------



## untaken_moniker

Jens Pulver doesn't deserve a shot at the title at this point. He needs at least 1 win over a significant contender like Fisher or Guillard. Pulver, Fisher, Guillard... any 2 of these fighters in the cage would make an awesome fight. OR Dana could just put the 3 of them in there and the last man standing gets a shot at Sherk :cheeky4: Now that's excitment!


----------



## jaymackz

Jens would get raped by guillards stomach punch -_-


----------



## AtomDanger

jaymackz said:


> Jens would get raped by guillards stomach punch -_-



No ones going to **** Jens Pulver. lol


----------



## jaymackz

hmm joe lauzon did :laugh:


----------



## AtomDanger

oh come on, now i know youre lying lol.

Getting lucky doesnt count as ****, randy couture spanking tito ortiz was raping lol... That kid even admitted in his post fight interview that his hook was just to get out of the combo and it caught him


----------



## Bonnar426

AtomDanger said:


> Umm, how so? Because he caught a loss????
> 
> He was still the last LW champion, and never lost it...


Regardless, he still lost! It wasn't even a close fight either! Lauzon knocked him out within the first minute! If he couldn't fight Lauzon within the first five minutes how will he survive Sean Sherk. He's not ready for a title shot yet!


----------



## jaymackz

Still man....getting KO'd by a new comer..makin his first debut and him being a former LW ufc champ what does that make you think? don't tell me that you don't think thats pure ownage.....I just see Jens getting dominated by the guys in the LW division -_-


----------



## AtomDanger

Bonnar426 said:


> Regardless, he still lost! It wasn't even a close fight either! Lauzon knocked him out within the first minute! If he couldn't fight Lauzon within the first five minutes how will he survive Sean Sherk. He's not ready for a title shot yet!



not ready? lol....

He took it easy because he wanted a title shot, no point in getting injured fighting some kid when you are going to get a title shot soon anyway


----------



## AtomDanger

jaymackz said:


> Still man....getting KO'd by a new comer..makin his first debut and him being a former LW ufc champ what does that make you think? don't tell me that you don't think thats pure ownage.....I just see Jens getting dominated by the guys in the LW division -_-



I dont think so at all.. Did you ever see any of his fights? 

I think he took it easy with that kid so that he didn't get hurt or something stupid in a fight that didn't matter... Or he underestimated, either way you cant say that that one fight was a fair show of his talent


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

Yeah Lauzon pretty much took care of that. He is now a registered sex offender because that surely was a ****. 

Guillard is certainly headed in the right direction under Tito's tutelage. Tito took care of a lot of his mistakes in the small amount of time between his last two fights. Tito really does have a great ability to teach. Like him or not.

I think Guillard is one of the most talented fighters in the UFC. His ability and athleticism are nearly endless. Once his knowledge and execution are even close to equal then he will be unstoppable.


----------



## Bonnar426

AtomDanger said:


> not ready? lol....
> 
> He took it easy because he wanted a title shot, no point in getting injured fighting some kid when you are going to get a title shot soon anyway


That's not much of an arguement for Pulver to get a title shot! Taking it easy are for pussies especially in this sport!


----------



## jaymackz

Well then, there are a lot of idiot UFC smartasses that take their opponent to lightly. Take Ed Herman for example, he took Jason mcdonald wayyyyy to lightly....same goes with Jens pulver, I see no reason as to why they would even dare to underestimate a fighter with unknown skill/talent...thus, I do believe it was a fair fight. Jens being the more experienced fighter..(former champion) and Joe lauzon who just showed up to prove he was UFC worthy. and as bonnar mentioned..theres no "taking it easy" in UCF or MMA. Theres no taking your opponent lightly because you're conceited and once was the former UFC LW champ. He got beat fair & square.


----------



## AtomDanger

Bonnar426 said:


> That's not much of an arguement for Pulver to get a title shot! Taking it easy are for pussies especially in this sport!



Thats your opinion... but it happens. I dont know for sure thats what happened, but i can guess. Im sure it happens with other fighters too


----------



## Bonnar426

AtomDanger said:


> Thats your opinion... but it happens. I dont know for sure thats what happened, but i can guess. Im sure it happens with other fighters too


All I am saying is I rather have a fighter who gives it everything they have got! That shows they deserve a title shot! If Pulver took it easy and lost the fight because of it, he does not deserve a shot! He needs to work his way back up!


----------



## AtomDanger

Bonnar426 said:


> All I am saying is I rather have a fighter who gives it everything they have got! That shows they deserve a title shot! If Pulver took it easy and lost the fight because of it, he does not deserve a shot! He needs to work his way back up!



Yeah, I think you're right.. I think that it is a sissy thing to do. But I think it happens sometimes.

I think Pulver should fight Girard (spelling? lol)


----------



## Bonnar426

AtomDanger said:


> Yeah, I think you're right.. I think that it is a sissy thing to do. But I think it happens sometimes.
> 
> I think Pulver should fight Girard (spelling? lol)


Yeah, Guillard will be a good match!


----------



## jaymackz

Jens would have a tough time with guillard, i'm tellin yah...guillard is like one of the biggest LW's in the UFC...like sean sherk. Guillard KO jens 2nd round


----------



## AtomDanger

Bonnar426 said:


> Yeah, Guillard will be a good match!



Yeah it would be, I'm actually happy they are getting the LW's going


----------



## AtomDanger

jaymackz said:


> Jens would have a tough time with guillard, i'm tellin yah...guillard is like one of the biggest LW's in the UFC...like sean sherk. Guillard KO jens 2nd round



Tough fight or not, I still wouldn't mind seeing it


----------



## TheJame

Anyone ever notice that Atom Danger posts way too much? Dude, go outside and get some fresh air or something. Get away from the computer for a bit, it will rot your brains.

Although Fisher sees to be considered overrated on these forums, for whatever reason, I think he'd have a hell of a fight with Guillard, but would submit him quite easily if it went to the ground, possibly in the first or second round. Either way, that would be a great fight to see.


----------



## asskicker

I think it would be extremly unfair to Joe Stevenson if Guillard got a chance for a title shot before him. Stevenson only has one loss to Josh Neer who beat Guillard as well, and Stevenson who won TUF that Guillard was in. How can you justify giving Melvin a shot before Joe? Unless Joe loses.


----------



## untaken_moniker

Regardless of whether or not Matt Serra wins TUF4, I would think that him making it to the finals gives the UFC reason enough to lock him down for a few fights. If he does win TUF, I don't think he would stand a chance at taking the title from either Hughes OR St. Pierre. If I were Dana, I would present Serra with the option of maybe going down to 155 (after his title fight if he wins TUF, or right away if he loses in the finals). Serra is big at 155 and adding him in the LW division only makes sense since the division needs to be beefed up. Just a thought...


----------



## AtomDanger

TheJame said:


> Anyone ever notice that Atom Danger posts way too much? Dude, go outside and get some fresh air or something. Get away from the computer for a bit, it will rot your brains.
> 
> Although Fisher sees to be considered overrated on these forums, for whatever reason, I think he'd have a hell of a fight with Guillard, but would submit him quite easily if it went to the ground, possibly in the first or second round. Either way, that would be a great fight to see.



Dude, I had this week off, and wanted to sit around and do nothing all week.
not that how i spend my time is any of your concern.


----------



## Wombatsu

untaken_moniker said:


> Regardless of whether or not Matt Serra wins TUF4, I would think that him making it to the finals gives the UFC reason enough to lock him down for a few fights. If he does win TUF, I don't think he would stand a chance at taking the title from either Hughes OR St. Pierre. If I were Dana, I would present Serra with the option of maybe going down to 155 (after his title fight if he wins TUF, or right away if he loses in the finals). Serra is big at 155 and adding him in the LW division only makes sense since the division needs to be beefed up. Just a thought...


Thats a fair call, Serra is still a beast at 170 but 155 should be his home, he would be better there. He and Chris 'Lights out' deserve a few UFC PPv fights - they are both very good fighters. Also bring back Cote, Dewees etc also - they are very good also. I mean if Danny Abbadi gets a PPv i think these guys should also, they worked hard for some time to shine.


----------



## MMA1990

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Yeah Lauzon pretty much took care of that. He is now a registered sex offender because that surely was a ****.
> 
> Guillard is certainly headed in the right direction under Tito's tutelage. Tito took care of a lot of his mistakes in the small amount of time between his last two fights. Tito really does have a great ability to teach. Like him or not.
> 
> I think Guillard is one of the most talented fighters in the UFC. His ability and athleticism are nearly endless. Once his knowledge and execution are even close to equal then he will be unstoppable.



I agree. Guillard will beat fisher and than take the belt from sherk. Guillard is the next big thing in the UFC and now that he's training with Ortiz he's only gonna get better.


----------



## MMA1990

AtomDanger said:


> Dude, I had this week off, and wanted to sit around and do nothing all week.
> not that how i spend my time is any of your concern.


29.68 posts a day man. Thats crazy ive been hear two months longer than you and dont have that much.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

*What was said about UFC?*

So I went out last night and didn't watch the PPV live. I saw most of the fights at dailymotion.com this morning, and read the results thread for the rest of them. I heard that Pride was calling out UFC and its fighters. 

Does anyone have any info on what exactly was said?
Any post-fight interviews worthy to talk about?

Thanks for your help.


----------



## Organik

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> So I went out last night and didn't watch the PPV live. I saw most of the fights at dailymotion.com this morning, and read the results thread for the rest of them. I heard that Pride was calling out UFC and its fighters.
> 
> Does anyone have any info on what exactly was said?
> Any post-fight interviews worthy to talk about?
> 
> Thanks for your help.



Wanderlei basically told chuck.. he talks to much and if he wants to fight.. to come to pride and fight or stop talking....


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

That's it...man people exaggerate too much.


----------



## Organik

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> That's it...man people exaggerate too much.


yea there was definitely no UFC bashing involved in it


----------



## bob

yup, wanderlei cmae out and said something in the lines off "Chuck stop avoiding the fight, we were supposed to fight, what's the problem?"

other than that, nothing really. the commentators said that pride was a great organization and had the best fighters, but then again, which organization doesn't do that.....


----------



## scat

Why would Chuck goto Pride? We all know how that worked out last time. If Wanderlei wants to fight so bad, then work it out! He is the one talking the trash it appears. Chuck has nothing to gain from fighting him.


----------



## j.farrell

he told chuck to stop running, and that he would be in vegas in february. lorenzo fertita was ringside. i was surprised they didnt get a reaction shot from him


----------



## Shogun

There wasn't a pissing content with the UFC if that's what you are asking, in fact they were respectful of UFC during the broadcast and didn't ignore the history some of their fighters had with UFC. I like how they even showed a close up of Rampage Jackson in the crowd, so Pride isn't shy about mentioning other leagues. That isn't usually done in the UFC, I don't think they are even allowed to mention the name Pride now.

Wand did call out Chuck but it was all in good fun. Too bad we'll never see that.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

***REQ** - Hughes vs. St. Pierre II*

Anyone know where to get it??


----------



## T.B.

*Moved To Correct Section.*


----------



## slamjam

its there man. go to the right section


----------



## Judoyourass

....not funny.......


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

*Liddell vs. Somebody...*

If Liddell beats Rampage (which I hope he doesn't), how long before he fights someone like Shogun, Hendo, or Silva? Now that the UFC owns the rights to Pride and its fighters, why aren't we seeing these types of super PPV's? What is wrong? Instead we get more cards with okay main events and terrible undercards. The next two PPV's are probably going to be the least exciting ones since 2005.
What do you guys think?


----------



## MetalMunkey

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> If Liddell beats Rampage (which I hope he doesn't), how long before he fights someone like Shogun, Hendo, or Silva?


Not until the big super ppv next year or the UFC signs one of them.


> Now that the UFC owns the rights to Pride and its fighters, why aren't we seeing these types of super PPV's?


UFC doesnt own rights to pride, fertitas and pride worldwide do. and we will only see these super ppvs yearly starting next year (assuming things go according to plan)


> What is wrong?


I didn't get enough sleep last night


> Instead we get more cards with okay main events and terrible undercards. The next two PPV's are probably going to be the least exciting ones since 2005.
> What do you guys think?


UFC 73 looks 'Stacked'.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

I had never heard the "once a year super PPV plan". But we'll see how that goes. Thanks. And yeah UFC 73 looks good but I just want someone to beat Chuck. I just don't like the guy. Everyone says he really a good guy and all that but I don't think he is the best LHW and can't wait til he is exposed.


----------



## Terry77

I remember the rumor of Shogun and Arona having two way contracts, don't know how much validity that carries today. They own Pride contracts, and Pride fighters have to fight in Pride. There are alot of names from TUF but these guys aren't there yet and Lidell isn't getting any younger. Hendo, Wandy, Shogun, Soku, Little Nog all have to be considered.


----------



## SlaveTrade

I think Machida will be able to beat Chuck in the future..

till then..

Shogun, Rampage, Silva, Hendo are able to beat Chuck I think..


----------



## Kreed

The feritas don't even own pride yet the deal supposedly fell through


----------



## rbunnell

Well, I would not mind if Rampage were to win, but I have a feeling that Liddell is going to knock Rampage out like he does everyone. All it takes is Rampage to come in with a series of punches, Chuck violently starts swinging and connects with Rampage and he gets knocked out. Honestly, if Tito could not take Chuck down, do you guys really think Rampage will. I like them both, so I am not really going for one or the other.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

*Sokoudjou????*

Has anyone heard anything about him getting signed to the UFC? Nobody has really been talking about him. I for one want to see more of him. Let me know.


----------



## Suvaco

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Has anyone heard anything about him getting signed to the UFC? Nobody has really been talking about him. I for one want to see more of him. Let me know.


He signed with EliteXC for 4 fights I think. I know it sucks but what can you do.


----------



## Wise

I dont think it really sucks. Elite is adding some good fighters to its stable. Competition is always a good thing for business.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

i just want to see more of him. I don't really care where. Like to see him in the UFC in the future but maybe not yet. Especially since i think Hendo will be champ soon, but who knows.BTW thanks for the info


----------



## Boxing>MMA

> Competition is always a good thing for business.


What a load of shit that saying is. Competition is only good for the general public.


----------



## vandalian

Boxing>MMA said:


> What a load of shit that saying is. Competition is only good for the general public.


Competition _is_ good for business if the people running that business are compelled to put out a good product and stay on top. I know you like wrestling, so here's a wrestling analogy...WWF/WWE put out some of its best programming when WCW forced them to. They won the ratings war and made more money than ever. Then theiy bought their competition, secured a monopoly, and proceeded to blow really hard. I can't even watch that crap anymore, it's so bad.
Maybe some North American competition will be good for UFC, too. We'll see.


----------



## vandalian

hylans said:


> i ******* hate brazilian fighters and was happy to see sokoudjou absolutely destroy nogueira and arona


I'd have thought he'd be a little too "affirmative action" for you.


----------



## southpaw447

Boxing>MMA said:


> What a load of shit that saying is. Competition is only good for the general public.


No that's not true at all. I would go into why it's good for business but i'd probably waste my breath trying to explain it to an idiot like you. I've taken so many business and entrepreneurship, and marketing classes it's not even funny


----------



## Robb2140

southpaw447 said:


> No that's not true at all. I would go into why it's good for business but i'd probably waste my breath trying to explain it to an idiot like you. I've taken so many business and entrepreneurship, and marketing classes it's not even funny


taking classes does not make you an expert on the subject.


Yes it's true that competition keeps everybody honest and will usually result in a better product or service. But if the competition gets too big and too strong then it is not a good thing if your the little guy.

Talk to a guy who owned a nieghborhood hardware store or video store 15 years ago. thier competition, (Home depot) and (Blockbuster), put alot of entreprenuers out of business. 

Microsoft got so big and then simply bought out thier competition and actually had a Monopoly for a period in the 90's. They did damn good swallowing up the competition and then fought tooth and nail with the government when they were declared a "Monopoly". 

It's bad for the consumer that's for sure, it just depends on who you talk too.


----------



## Robb2140

vandalian said:


> Competition _is_ good for business if the people running that business are compelled to put out a good product and stay on top. I know you like wrestling, so here's a wrestling analogy...WWF/WWE put out some of its best programming when WCW forced them to. They won the ratings war and made more money than ever. Then theiy bought their competition, secured a monopoly, and proceeded to blow really hard. I can't even watch that crap anymore, it's so bad.
> Maybe some North American competition will be good for UFC, too. We'll see.


And yet the WWE went public since that has happened and the company is making more $$$$ then ever. 

Good for Vince McMahon and the Shareholders? Yes

Good for Wrestling fans? No

I could care less because i am not a fan of wrestling post 1995.

*War Brutus "The Barber" Beefcake!!!!!!!*


----------



## gwabblesore

southpaw447 said:


> No that's not true at all. I would go into why it's good for business but i'd probably waste my breath trying to explain it to an idiot like you. I've taken so many business and entrepreneurship, and marketing classes it's not even funny


I think you guys are kind of arguing different points. If youre in a business you want to be the guy to sell your product to ALL potential consumers, that's a monopoly, that's what's gonna keep you afloat, that's ideal for your wallet. Competition adversely pushes some businesses under keeps all businesses working hard and is good for all the potential consumers.

I dont know, the saying (competition is good for business) is wrong but maybe it's not meant to be taken so literally. Competition is good for the business's product.


----------



## Robb2140

gwabblesore said:


> I think you guys are kind of arguing different points. If youre in a business you want to be the guy to sell your product to ALL potential consumers, that's a monopoly, that's what's gonna keep you afloat, that's ideal for your wallet. Competition adversely pushes some businesses under keeps all businesses working hard and is good for all the potential consumers.
> 
> I dont know, the saying (competition is good for business) is wrong but maybe it's not meant to be taken so literally. Competition is good for the business's product.


yes, you are correct.

"Competition is good for business" is what execs say in a board meeting, when they are trying to act like the new guy in town is'nt a threat to thier bottom line. When in reality, they are all shitting thier pants, preparing to sell thier stock and run for the hills.


----------



## vandalian

robb2140 said:


> And yet the WWE went public since that has happened and the company is making more $$$$ then ever.
> 
> Good for Vince McMahon and the Shareholders? Yes
> 
> Good for Wrestling fans? No
> 
> I could care less because i am not a fan of wrestling post 1995.
> 
> *War Brutus "The Barber" Beefcake!!!!!!!*


Compared to the Attitude boom period, WWE hasn't enjoyed the same earnings or mainstream popularity. Although I suppose UFC has seomthing to do with that, since they've been taking away PPV dollars.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

*Who is the best striker at 170?*

Let me know what you guys think.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

That is what I was thinking, but the only times he looked dominant were against Matt Hughes. I think that I could outstrike Hughes. (not really)


----------



## bbjd7

Mike Swick


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

Swick would get owned by GSP.


----------



## ShadyNismo

Unholy FD3S said:


> GSP
> :thumbsup:


thats rite :thumb02:


----------



## capt_america

even though he hasnt fight in 170 i think its Mike Swick..
i dont think GSP's srtiking is better than him.. the only way GSp can beat him is on the ground..


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> That is what I was thinking, but the only times he looked dominant were against Matt Hughes. I think that I could outstrike Hughes. (not really)


He beat the hell of Mayhem Miller, Sean Sherk, and Frank Trigg when they were stood up, and dominated Matt Hughes.

GSP for sure.


----------



## Calibretto9

You know, this is the one thing that has cracked me up about the UFC's Welterweight division for years: There are next to no pure strikers. I'd have to give it to GSP, even over Swick, but honestly, outside of GSP, Swick, and perhaps Marcus Davis, there's really no one else. The UFC's Welterweight division is amazing, and I've long thought of it as the most dominant division in MMA pound for pound, is made up almost entirely of grapplers. Now, most of these grapplers CAN strike, because they're excellent athletes, but none of them are knockout artists, Muay Thai experts, or even straight out brawlers. You've got guys like Matt Hughes, Matt Serra, Diego Sanchez, Josh Koscheck, John Fitch, Karo Parisyan, and Nick Diaz: All of these guys are top notch, but all of them are based in grappling, be it BJJ, wrestling, Judo, or something else. 

Even GSP, for all his quickness, falls back on his strong wrestling and grappling skills more often than not. Most people get hung up on his second fight with Matt Hughes, but on average GSP takes fights to the ground. And, when you think about it, in one of his few fights where he did stay standing, he got KTFO. Swick's striking is good, but not nearly as great as some make it out to be. He blew threw a few D+ level fighters with wild punches and aggression, but as soon as he got up to some talent, he slowed down real fast. Look at his fight with David Loiseau. Loiseau clammed up for nearly the entire fight and Swick was able to do very little to him, and Okami gave Swick fits fighting with practically only his right jab. I have, and probably always will, classify Swick as a B level striker.

Now, that doesn't mean I'm knocking on the UFC's Welterweight division, because as I said I think it's the best. It just so happens that there really aren't a lot of pure strikers, and if there are they really haven't risen up with all of these grapplers. It seems like every other division is evenly divided up among strikers and grapplers, but the WW division is about the only one where the number of grapplers dwarves the strikers.


----------



## dutch sauce

gsp E.Z.


----------



## 6sidedlie

Is it even a question?

George St Pierre

and I don't care that he got caught by Serra, kudos to him, but nine times out of ten I have GSP winning that stand up.


----------



## vancitypimp

GSP, he's one of the very few fighters that can use leg kicks effectivily in a fight and he has the ability to keep fighters back off him with his reach and forces opponents to go for the takedown from far out which GSP can sprawl out petty easily out of.


----------



## ID06

Jeff Joslin


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

Iron Daisy06 said:


> Jeff Joslin


He's definitely up there.


----------



## MMAmatt

gsp man.

:thumbsup:


----------



## southpaw447

GSP or Thiago Alves


----------



## DCDIME

I know not too many people are going to side with me on at this one. Someone to watch for is Jeff Joslin (if he ever isn't injured). He was taking Kos to school in the stand up. So much so, Kos went back to wrestler mode. He's quick like GSP and has that speed and snap that can do damage. Not the best maybe...but an up and comer to watch.


----------



## 6sidedlie

What has happened to the great Joslin. He won the title fight up here in Canada, went to the UFC lost to KOS in a decision and was scheduled to fight someone (I forget this one, someone help) but had to pull out do to injury.

When is this man coming back. He's one of the most entertaining fighters to me and is one of those guys I would like to follow more being a Canadian.


----------



## DCDIME

6sidedlie said:


> What has happened to the great Joslin. He won the title fight up here in Canada, went to the UFC lost to KOS in a decision and was scheduled to fight someone (I forget this one, someone help) but had to pull out do to injury.
> 
> When is this man coming back. He's one of the most entertaining fighters to me and is one of those guys I would like to follow more being a Canadian.


it was Chris Lytle...and he got hurt...rumour has it he's coming back soon...


----------



## bbjd7

Unholy FD3S said:


> u kidding right
> 
> he hasnt even fought at 170 yet lol


He has a scheduled fight against Goulet who he will KO. and no im not kidding.
Swick has better stand up than any one in the WW divison I would usually say GSP but when Serra charged right at him he had a lot of trouble and that is exactly what Mike Swick would probably do Charge at GSP with combos and Swick is a far better striker than Serra so that's why I went with Swick.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

So he KO's Goulet and that solidifies his spot as the best striker in the WW division. That is borderline laughable. 

I mean GSP stood with BJ Penn, Matt Hughes, Sean Sherk, Frank Trigg. I think those guys would beat most of the MW's that Swick has beaten. Swick is an average fighter and really an overrated striker. Quick hands do not make a great striker they make a guy with quick hands. Was Belfort the best striker in the world because he threw a crapload of punches in a small amount of time. You see what strategy and technique from an experienced and smart striker like Couture did to him. And Gsp, for the most part, is more strategic than most WW's. I think that if GSP. Look at what Kos did to Diego, all of the sudden he is a good striker too. These TUF guys seem to still be a step behind everyone else. I don't know what it is but they just aren't as good.


----------



## gwabblesore

Iron Daisy06 said:


> Jeff Joslin


Good call, he was picking Kos apart standing.

Joe Riggs and Nick Diaz are both pretty good strikers who will hopefully make their way back to the UFC welterweight.


----------



## Fedor>all

GSP, he's a good striker, but the only reason he looks incredible standing is because he fights guys that can't.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

*Din Thomas?*

Anyone know anything about his next fight? I have liked him for a while and ever since his last fight I really can't wait to see him fight again. I guess it is because he called out the boxers, or maybe just because he goes for it and doesn't leave anything out.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

That is kind of what i was getting at earlier, I guess i never said it though. He just takes the fight somewhere else when he feels like the other fighter is better than him at the standup. So I guess this is a toss up. No one really has anything. Maybe Robbie Lawler but He got ko'd by Diaz. Scott Smith maybe. I don't know though.


----------



## Fedor>all

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Anyone know anything about his next fight? I have liked him for a while and ever since his last fight I really can't wait to see him fight again. I guess it is because he called out the boxers, or maybe just because he goes for it and doesn't leave anything out.


He's in the main event fight on UFN11 against Spencer Fisher from what I've heard.:thumbsup:


----------



## IronMan

An in depth look at all of the guys that have been mentioned so far:

*Georges St. Pierre*

Definitely has my vote. After all, the UFC's former 170 champion (and he will be again, trust me) has dominated alot of good strikers standing and even though he's well rounded, it's fair to say, at least in my opinion, that there hasn't been anyone who has shown the ability to strike with him yet. Maybe BJ Penn, but even Penn looked technically unsound standing up compared to GSP.

*Mike Swick*

While very impressive at 185, we haven't seen him fight at 170 after cuttiong all of that weight. He would definitely have an impressive reach advantage, but I don't think it would make him the best. After his performance against Loiseau, I don't he's quite as dangerous standing against top notch comptetion, even after cutting the weight. I think he'll also find it much harder to adjust to trying to hit smaller, quicker opponents. I just have a hard time giving it to Swick since we haven't see his cardio or his accuracy at 170 pounds yet and his last few performances weren't as full of fireworks as we've come to expect from him.

*Jeff Joslin*

While I like Joslin and I think his striking is interesting and, technically, really really good, I don't think he's the best. He didn't display serious power or a particularly impressive chin (or a will to display his chin for that matter). He wasn't about finishing that fight, whether because he was afraid of the takedown or not, it's something that a striker shouldn't do. A great striker will risk being put on his back if he has the opportunity to land that big shot. I didn't see that from Joslin.

*Jonathan Goulet*

Goulet stopped Jay Hieron. That's it. While Jay is a great fighter, I don't think we can give Goulet the honor of being the best striker at 170 with 1 TKO, especially after being stopped by Duane Ludwig.

My other nominees:

*BJ Penn*

While his standup has been proven most dangerous at 155, where he has more power, he is a very dangerous fighter at 170 too. While he doesn't have the 1 punch KO power, he does have the technique and the chin to compete with guys like GSP. Hell, he's even stood and traded with Lyoto Machida.

*Diego Sanchez*

He stopped Joe Riggs in his tracks with an impressive knee and he's been working with De La Hoya on his boxing. I don't like De La Hoya, but that can't be hurting Diego's standup. Despite Sanchez's recent loss, he has proven impressive. I don't really think he has displayed enough to be called the best, but that doesn't mean he's not up there.


----------



## MagiK11

I like Din as well, and hope he fights a top contender at 155 so he can have a chance to become a contender for the belt himself. I think he's good enough and fought enough UFC fights and deserves to have the chance to prove he can fight for the belt. I hate seeing fighters like him fight no name fighters, when they should be promoting him and giving them a shot. Also not saying all his recent fights were with no name fighters but most of them were. He deserves more.



Fedor>all said:


> He's in the main event fight on UFN11 against Spencer Fisher from what I've heard.:thumbsup:



IF that's true, than he's finally getting what I think he should be getting. Wish him the best.


----------



## Fedor>all

MagiK11 said:


> IF that's true, than he's finally getting what I think he should be getting. Wish him the best.


UFC News - Din Thomas vs Spencer Fisher at UFC Fight Night, Fighter Hospitalized, More

_
TheFightNetwork.com is reporting that Din Thomas has, verbally, agreed to face Spencer Fisher at the next UFC Fight Night, which airs on SpikeTV on September 20th at the Palms Hotel & Casino in Las Vegas, Nevada. The UFC Fight Night will be the lead-in for the debut of The Ultimate Fighter 6. _


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

Good I hope he beats Fisher. I never have liked Miletich guys.


----------



## js9234

Spencer seems to be a cool guy though. I like Din too. I think it is gonna be a great fight. Both are great strikers and good on the ground.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

We can't put Diego in there because he just got controlled by Kos. That would put Kos ahead of him automatically. 
Penn in the talk for sure though.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

Yeah after Fisher's last win against Stout. I was thinking damn that was a cool thing to say, maybe he's not to bad. 

That aside, I would call Guida a no name anymore. In January when Din and him fought he was but not now. Not after what he did to Tyson Griffin. That was a great fight. Looking for a fight like that again at UFN 11.


----------



## gwabblesore

IronMan said:


> An in depth look at all of the guys that have been mentioned so far:
> 
> *Georges St. Pierre*
> 
> Definitely has my vote. After all, the UFC's former 170 champion (and he will be again, trust me) has dominated alot of good strikers standing and even though he's well rounded, it's fair to say, at least in my opinion, that there hasn't been anyone who has shown the ability to strike with him yet. Maybe BJ Penn, but even Penn looked technically unsound standing up compared to GSP.
> 
> *Mike Swick*
> 
> While very impressive at 185, we haven't seen him fight at 170 after cuttiong all of that weight. He would definitely have an impressive reach advantage, but I don't think it would make him the best. After his performance against Loiseau, I don't he's quite as dangerous standing against top notch comptetion, even after cutting the weight. I think he'll also find it much harder to adjust to trying to hit smaller, quicker opponents. I just have a hard time giving it to Swick since we haven't see his cardio or his accuracy at 170 pounds yet and his last few performances weren't as full of fireworks as we've come to expect from him.
> 
> *Jeff Joslin*
> 
> While I like Joslin and I think his striking is interesting and, technically, really really good, I don't think he's the best. He didn't display serious power or a particularly impressive chin (or a will to display his chin for that matter). He wasn't about finishing that fight, whether because he was afraid of the takedown or not, it's something that a striker shouldn't do. A great striker will risk being put on his back if he has the opportunity to land that big shot. I didn't see that from Joslin.
> 
> *Jonathan Goulet*
> 
> Goulet stopped Jay Hieron. That's it. While Jay is a great fighter, I don't think we can give Goulet the honor of being the best striker at 170 with 1 TKO, especially after being stopped by Duane Ludwig.
> 
> My other nominees:
> 
> *BJ Penn*
> 
> While his standup has been proven most dangerous at 155, where he has more power, he is a very dangerous fighter at 170 too. While he doesn't have the 1 punch KO power, he does have the technique and the chin to compete with guys like GSP. Hell, he's even stood and traded with Lyoto Machida.
> 
> *Diego Sanchez*
> 
> He stopped Joe Riggs in his tracks with an impressive knee and he's been working with De La Hoya on his boxing. I don't like De La Hoya, but that can't be hurting Diego's standup. Despite Sanchez's recent loss, he has proven impressive. I don't really think he has displayed enough to be called the best, but that doesn't mean he's not up there.



Good post, I agree with most of it. 

Only ones Id disagree with you about are Joslin and Sanchez.

Joslin was really dominating Kos standing. The fact that he was facing the guy with possibly the best takedowns in MMA was sure to make him keep his distance rather than get all in there and swing for the fences. Point being I dont think he's proven yet that he doesn't have KO power, but he _has_ proven that he can win standup wars. So basically we gotta see some more of him before we can draw the final conclusion. 

And with Sanchez you cited his knee on Joe Riggs. Let's face it, Joe begged for that one and it wasn't exactly great standup on Diego's part to just run at Riggs and knee his already knee height face. I dont see Diego ever getting to use that move successfully again, unless maybe the downed opponent rule is changed. Also his fight with Koscheck was impressively unimpressive. I mean this is the same Kos that would not dare to stay standing with Jeff Joslin. Sure he's improved some but still, if Diego had good standup that would have been a better fight.


----------



## slapshot

Swick


----------



## wukkadb

Mike Swick's stand up isn't that impressive in my opinion. He's not as good at striking/defending TD's as many others are. I think he will be better at 170 than 185 though. GSP definitely has the best striking at 170, and like stated before, 170 isn't much of a "strikers" division.


----------



## GeGGosbg

I would love to see a boxing match between matt hughes and josh koscheck it would be a real sluggerfest.

And at the best I would say GSP has the ability to strike quiet good, but Diego Sanchez will become the best striker in the WW, he will be the allround best WW who ever come to the UFC! Just wait and see!


----------



## AmRiT

GSP, but who knows how good Swick will be


----------



## royalking87

gsp is a good striker but like everyones sayin sherk and hughes they are both wrestlers who like going to the ground so i would put gsp up there but joslin or swick


----------



## libertywrestler

BJ Penn is probably the best striker. He was giving GSP problems in the standup so GSP took him down and won a split decision but BJ messed GSP's face up when they stood.


----------



## FuTuReLeGenD

GSP is a good fighter all around, and yes a good striker but in my opinion i think "Ruthless" Robbie Lawler is an elite striker when her fights 170.


----------



## Kirkardo

Georges St. Pierre


----------



## DCDIME

gwabblesore said:


> Good post, I agree with most of it.
> 
> Only ones Id disagree with you about are Joslin and Sanchez.
> 
> Joslin was really dominating Kos standing. The fact that he was facing the guy with possibly the best takedowns in MMA was sure to make him keep his distance rather than get all in there and swing for the fences. Point being I dont think he's proven yet that he doesn't have KO power, but he _has_ proven that he can win standup wars. So basically we gotta see some more of him before we can draw the final conclusion. .


That's what i was saying. Joslin did what he had to do to deal with Kos' takedowns. If your winning a fight in your element you don't want to go into his. Even when it went to the ground, kos was mostly neutralized. While Joslin isn't the best right now, there is potential for him to be in the future.


----------



## Damone

If he can stay healthy, Jeff Joslin.


----------



## wafb

GSP is well rounded.


----------



## jdun11

Watch GSP vs BJ and than tell me that GSP is the best striker at 170...lol GSP got Owned standing in that fight. He had to resort to lay and pray tactics to win. He is the most overrated striker in MMA. Oh and did I mention Matt Serra knocked his ass out :laugh: He got schooled striking with bjj guys. He is striking is so overrated its nauseating. And if he tried to stand with Swick he would get KTFO.


----------



## Fedor>all

jdun11 said:


> Watch GSP vs BJ and than tell me that GSP is the best striker at 170...lol GSP got Owned standing in that fight. He had to resort to lay and pray tactics to win. He is the most overrated striker in MMA. Oh and did I mention Matt Serra knocked his ass out :laugh: He got schooled striking with bjj guys. He is striking is so overrated its nauseating. And if he tried to stand with Swick he would get KTFO.


Anyone can get knocked out if they're hit in the right spot. Rampage KO'd Chuck Liddell, Sokky KO'd Lil' Nogueira, Cro Cop got KO'd by Gonzaga. It doesn't mean their striking is over-rated, it just means they got caught, which can happen to anyone.

I've said this a million times before, but it looks like I'll be saying it again. Matt Serra doesn't have good striking, he has good power. Only 2 of the 200+ wild punches he threw at GSP actually connected and put him down. GSP is still the better striker, Matt Serra just simply knew that his best chance at winning was catching GSP in a brawl situation. 

Stupidly enough, GSP committed to Serra's gameplan and got caught.


----------



## steveo412

jdun11 said:


> Watch GSP vs BJ and than tell me that GSP is the best striker at 170...lol GSP got Owned standing in that fight. He had to resort to lay and pray tactics to win. He is the most overrated striker in MMA. Oh and did I mention Matt Serra knocked his ass out :laugh: He got schooled striking with bjj guys. He is striking is so overrated its nauseating. And if he tried to stand with Swick he would get KTFO.


BJ is a BJJ guy, but not even close to just a BJJ guy. His striking is top notch. Saying that GSP lost the standup to a BJJ guy thats BJ penn is pretty dumb cause he is in no way just a BJJ guy. Matt Serra caught him, its true that does happen. Hes got Heavy hands for a BJJ guy. But come on you dont really think that Swick would KO GSP. OH WOW he KO'd 2 guys in like 20 seconds. Pretty Impressive, oh wait it was Gideon ray and Alex Shoenower. Those guys are pretty much nobodys for fighters with limited skils. Since then he did choke out Riggs and his fight with Louisea was pretty pathetic and if David actually would have tried in the first 2 rounds Swick would have been finished for sure but he fought like Sh-t. In the third he showed how not good Mike Swick really is, to bad it was too late. And Okami pretty much just handed swick his ass.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

What is it with this sudden love for Mike Swick? He's basically Chris Leben part 2 with a little more crisp striking. He would get wrecked against GSP on the feet.


----------



## wukkadb

Alex_DeLarge said:


> What is it with this sudden love for Mike Swick?


I was wondering the same thing. Didn't he just lose?


----------



## Calibretto9

Alex_DeLarge said:


> What is it with this sudden love for Mike Swick? He's basically Chris Leben part 2 with a little more crisp striking. He would get wrecked against GSP on the feet.


Thank you! I mentioned this in my original post but no one really countered anything I said. Comparing him to Leben is actually a good call, as he does sort of fall into the brawler category with a bit more speed and crispness and a bit less power. The funny thing is, Swick's record says it all. Versus Leben, he got KTFO. Versus Loiseau, he pulled out a decision. Versus Okami, he got whooped. That doesn't really throw a guy into "great striker" territory. Sure, he knocked two D level fighters out, but honestly, anybody is going to tee off against a guy they outclass as bad as that.


----------



## bbjd7

Calibretto9 said:


> Thank you! I mentioned this in my original post but no one really countered anything I said. Comparing him to Leben is actually a good call, as he does sort of fall into the brawler category with a bit more speed and crispness and a bit less power. The funny thing is, Swick's record says it all. Versus Leben, he got KTFO. Versus Loiseau, he pulled out a decision. Versus Okami, he got whooped. That doesn't really throw a guy into "great striker" territory. Sure, he knocked two D level fighters out, but honestly, anybody is going to tee off against a guy they outclass as bad as that.


He might not be a great striker in your mind but He is a far better striker than everyone in the WW divison except possibly Joslin and GSP. 

Now the biggest differnce between Swick and Leben is one Swick is about 1000x better on the ground then Leben. and Two Swick has better striking accuracy wise. I have to say that people getting mad at Swick for not beating Loiseau impressivly need to consider that Loiseau is deadly dangerous with his elbows and rushing in like Swick usually does would be a pretty crappy idea. Also Okami was a horrible match up one because he sits back and counters and is so much stronger than Swick. 

Really I would like to know what makes GSP a great striker because He got trashed by BJ and Serra basically just charged at him and threw punches and GSP had no idea what to do. Swick who has more power than Serra and accuracy if he charged GSP would probably have trouble.

Joslin is a good fighter who has never beaten anyone.

Swick wasn't the best striker in the MW divison which has some real good ones in Silva and Franklin but He is the best in the WW.


----------



## MetalMunkey

This is kinda a tough question because they don't have any Elite strikers in the WW division. There's no Anderson Silvas or Cro Cops. Like it was said before the division is dominated by wrestlers/grapplers. I think right now it's GSP/BJ. I realize that many, as well as I, think BJ beat GSP on their feet but GSP is more well-rounded using kicks as well as punches. BJ has good boxing but doesn't utilize his legs much. He rarely throws a leg kick or use knees while in the clinch.


----------



## KO Power

I agree that BJ is a better striker than gsp. He was beating gsp in the stand up and also won the fight IMO as well. But gsp is a more rounded striker, but I think bj is a very underrated boxer/striker because he has shown that he can make a well rounded striker(gsp) look bad.


----------



## TICL

Thank you for saying that BJ whooped GSP ass in striking. Everytime GSP came in he would get countered. So he pulled a KOS on us all. He can do flashy things and is an excellent striker, but he is kind of like Chuck (I hate to say it), but chuck and GSP don't do great against other strikers.


----------



## WouldLuv2FightU

jdun11 said:


> Watch GSP vs BJ and than tell me that GSP is the best striker at 170...lol GSP got Owned standing in that fight. He had to resort to lay and pray tactics to win. He is the most overrated striker in MMA. Oh and did I mention Matt Serra knocked his ass out :laugh: He got schooled striking with bjj guys. He is striking is so overrated its nauseating. And if he tried to stand with Swick he would get KTFO.


Ahhh you beat me to it. I agree, his standup is pretty overrated, it looks good because it's karate and because he's very fluid and crisp and "pretty" when he fights on his feet, but it's not the best standup in the 170 division. I'd have to give it to Jeff Joslin and Marcus Davis, just by credentials alone. Look at how freakin huge GSP is and then tell me how many people he has knocked out. I mean really knocked out, not TKO.


----------



## Damone

I forgot about Davis. Lytle's pretty good, too.

GSP doesn't really change up his punches. Always straight, feeling out punches, and he paid for that against Serra. I mean, GSP's good at putting all of it together, but he doesn't have the best striking in the WW division, not even close.


----------



## Calibretto9

Damone said:


> I forgot about Davis. Lytle's pretty good, too.
> 
> GSP doesn't really change up his punches. Always straight, feeling out punches, and he paid for that against Serra. I mean, GSP's good at putting all of it together, but he doesn't have the best striking in the WW division, not even close.


Yeah, I mentioned Marcus Davis too in my original post, but the only thing with him is he's still relatively new on the scene. It's hard to call a guy a great striker until he starts facing higher levels of competiton. As I mentioned when talking about Swick, it's easy to tee off on a guy who you outclass. I feel like I'm the only one who considers BJ a LW, but yeah, if he's a WW I consider BJ one of the top strikers in the division, But, like I keep saying, it's a division nearly devoid of pure strikers.


----------



## Damone

Glad to see that Marcus Davis is gettin' some love, but yeah, I agree, he needs to take that next step and I think he's ready for it. I mean, hell, give him someone like Alves or Hironaka, hell, Chris Lytle. Someone, anyone, I want my Marcus Davis fix.

Joslin is pretty much the only guy who I'd consider the purest striker in the WW division. It's odd, because there's some good all around fighters, but no one who has the striking game down to a science...except Joslin.


----------



## G_man87

Im going to say one out the blue here pete spratt yes i know he aint the best mma fighter ever infact not nearly close but he does have good striking and brutal leg kicks.
but i would say 2nd is marcus davis


----------



## Calibretto9

Damone said:


> Glad to see that Marcus Davis is gettin' some love, but yeah, I agree, he needs to take that next step and I think he's ready for it. I mean, hell, give him someone like Alves or Hironaka, hell, Chris Lytle. Someone, anyone, I want my Marcus Davis fix.
> 
> Joslin is pretty much the only guy who I'd consider the purest striker in the WW division. It's odd, because there's some good all around fighters, but no one who has the striking game down to a science...except Joslin.


Yeah, Joslin would be a lot more impressive if he wasn't in the UFC's WW division. He's got very crisp standup, but how are you going to use it with some of the best grapplers in the world slamming into you and working you on the ground? 

But, I have to say, one of the funniest things about the top tier WW fighters is that because they're all grapplers, you get a lot of standup wars. They're all so good on the ground that often fans get to see two decent (But not great) strikers slugging it out. For examples, see Diego/KOS, Karo/Burkman, GSP/Hughes... The list goes on and on. It's like, "Damn, I'm really good on the ground, but so are you. Want to just slug it out?" "Sure!"
It's great, and makes me love the WW division that much more.


----------



## Calibretto9

G_man87 said:


> Im going to say one out the blue here pete spratt yes i know he aint the best mma fighter ever infact not nearly close but he does have good striking and brutal leg kicks.
> but i would say 2nd is marcus davis


I'm not sure if what I watched was the IFL or the WCL, but I flick on the Versus channel every now and then and watch kickboxing, and twice I've seen Pete Spratt get his ass absolutely handed to him in kickboxing matches. Spratt sucks, period.


----------



## southpaw447

Anthony Johnson Impressed the hell out of me.


----------



## jamlena

To answer the question honestly of who is the best *striker* (not best fighter) at 170 I'd have to put Joslin, Riggs and Lytle up there as far as strikers go...GSP is one of the better strikers at 170 but I would not say he's the best.


----------



## FuTuReLeGenD

jamlena said:


> To answer the question honestly of who is the best *striker* (not best fighter) at 170 I'd have to put Joslin, Riggs and Lytle up there as far as strikers go...GSP is one of the better strikers at 170 but I would not say he's the best.


So nobody puts Robbie Lawler up there with ne of the strikers? i mean cmon he dropped his hand once against Nick Diaz and Diaz got lucky. but if u watch the fight Robbie Lawler was controlling the standup.


----------



## Damone

Yeah, it's too bad that Lawler's a MW right now.

Also, Robbie was controlling the Diaz fight? What fight were you watching? Diaz was giving Robbie shitfits, and dictated the entire pace of the fight. This threw Lawler off big time.


----------



## AnMMAFan

Calibretto9 said:


> You know, this is the one thing that has cracked me up about the UFC's Welterweight division for years: There are next to no pure strikers. I'd have to give it to GSP, even over Swick, but honestly, outside of GSP, Swick, and perhaps Marcus Davis, there's really no one else. The UFC's Welterweight division is amazing, and I've long thought of it as the most dominant division in MMA pound for pound, is made up almost entirely of grapplers. Now, most of these grapplers CAN strike, because they're excellent athletes, but none of them are knockout artists, Muay Thai experts, or even straight out brawlers. You've got guys like Matt Hughes, Matt Serra, Diego Sanchez, Josh Koscheck, John Fitch, Karo Parisyan, and Nick Diaz: All of these guys are top notch, but all of them are based in grappling, be it BJJ, wrestling, Judo, or something else.
> 
> Even GSP, for all his quickness, falls back on his strong wrestling and grappling skills more often than not. Most people get hung up on his second fight with Matt Hughes, but on average GSP takes fights to the ground. And, when you think about it, in one of his few fights where he did stay standing, he got KTFO. Swick's striking is good, but not nearly as great as some make it out to be. He blew threw a few D+ level fighters with wild punches and aggression, but as soon as he got up to some talent, he slowed down real fast. Look at his fight with David Loiseau. Loiseau clammed up for nearly the entire fight and Swick was able to do very little to him, and Okami gave Swick fits fighting with practically only his right jab. I have, and probably always will, classify Swick as a B level striker.
> 
> Now, that doesn't mean I'm knocking on the UFC's Welterweight division, because as I said I think it's the best. It just so happens that there really aren't a lot of pure strikers, and if there are they really haven't risen up with all of these grapplers. It seems like every other division is evenly divided up among strikers and grapplers, but the WW division is about the only one where the number of grapplers dwarves the strikers.


Great analysis. Penn at 170 can hang on his feet too. :thumb02:


----------



## FuTuReLeGenD

Yea he moved up to middle weight and i saw him win in the IFL like a month or two ago (prolly longer) against Jay Heiron i think, but dont quote me on that. And i kno he beat Frank Trigg in April. But no if u look back Diaz looks like he his hurting until he catches Robbie with his hands down.


----------



## Robb2140

Damone said:


> Yeah, it's too bad that Lawler's a MW right now.
> 
> Also, Robbie was controlling the Diaz fight? What fight were you watching? Diaz was giving Robbie shitfits, and dictated the entire pace of the fight. This threw Lawler off big time.


haha Diaz was mocking him the whole fight, putting his arms up in the air and talking trash the whole time.


I can't wait for this EliteXC show, because I need my Nick Diaz fix!!


----------



## Damone

He's been at MW for a while now. I believe his last WW fight was the Diaz fight, though I could be wrong. Iron Daisy is a huge Lawler fan, so maybe he can correct me here.

He fought Pamplona in the IFL.

I, too, can't wait for the next EliteXC show, robb. Hopefully, Frank vs Renzo goes down so I can get my Frank Shamrock fix. Diaz always brings the fun, so I'm always lookin' forward to see him scrap.


----------



## AxleZTTic

im glad to see more people throwing lytle's name out there. his standup seems to be extremely underrated. and as for lawler, no, maybe 4 years ago he was near the top but his time has come and gone. he'd get crushed by any of the top ww in the ufc. if you think lawler's good you probably think frank shamrock is still good too, and well, that explains it all.


----------



## Robb2140

FuTuReLeGenD said:


> Yea he moved up to middle weight and i saw him win in the IFL like a month or two ago (prolly longer) against Jay Heiron i think, but dont quote me on that. And i kno he beat Frank Trigg in April. *But no if u look back Diaz looks like he his hurting until he catches Robbie with his hands down*.


Diaz Googaplata'd(sp) Gomi with a broken orbital bone after controlling the standup for the latter half of that fight. Bieng hurt doesn't seem to bother him. Nick Diaz can take seriouse punishment.


----------



## Damone

Whoa there, keep the Frankie hate to a minimum. The guy is still a good fighter when he wants to be one.


----------



## ID06

Damone said:


> He's been at MW for a while now. I believe his last WW fight was the Diaz fight, though I could be wrong. Iron Daisy is a huge Lawler fan, so maybe he can correct me here.
> 
> He fought Pamplona in the IFL.


He moved up to avoid fighting Matt, Dana said if either of them wanted to be close to the title again they would have to fight eachother.


----------



## xeberus

GSP for sure right now.

swick goes 170 ill have to see what he gots but hes up there.


----------



## Damone

Swick throws some decent looking kicks, but he still swings wildly. I'm not getting all the Swick posts here, I mean, I like the guy, but his striking isn't that crisp.


----------



## FuTuReLeGenD

AxleZTTic said:


> im glad to see more people throwing lytle's name out there. his standup seems to be extremely underrated. and as for lawler, no, maybe 4 years ago he was near the top but his time has come and gone. he'd get crushed by any of the top ww in the ufc. if you think lawler's good you probably think frank shamrock is still good too, and well, that explains it all.


*Ninja to Face Robbie Lawler 

After claiming the vacant EliteXC Middleweight title, Murilo Rua will probably make the first defense of his belt against Miletich fighter Robbie Lawler on September 15th in Hawaii. "I know that Lawler has an excellent stand up game, and I am prepared to face him in a stand up game or a ground game," stated Rua. 

Just like Wanderlei Silva, "Ninja" will make the move to the U.S by the end of the year. "I want to move to U.S and open a Chute Boxe camp and it will happen this year".*

Since we r semi on the topic I got robbie for this one, but thats jus cause im on his nuts. But this will put Robbie to the test. And he'll show u doubters


----------



## bbjd7

Damone said:


> Swick throws some decent looking kicks, but he still swings wildly. I'm not getting all the Swick posts here, I mean, I like the guy, but his striking isn't that crisp.


But in the WW divison his striking is a lot better than most.


----------



## bbjd7

FuTuReLeGenD said:


> *Ninja to Face Robbie Lawler
> 
> After claiming the vacant EliteXC Middleweight title, Murilo Rua will probably make the first defense of his belt against Miletich fighter Robbie Lawler on September 15th in Hawaii. "I know that Lawler has an excellent stand up game, and I am prepared to face him in a stand up game or a ground game," stated Rua.
> 
> Just like Wanderlei Silva, "Ninja" will make the move to the U.S by the end of the year. "I want to move to U.S and open a Chute Boxe camp and it will happen this year".*
> 
> I got robbie for this one, but thats jus cause im on his nuts. But this will put Robbie to the test.


Ninja vs Lawler is going to be huge and I can't wait for it.

I wonder if Ninja is going to train some at Extreme Couture with Wanderlei.


----------



## Damone

I'm picking Lawler to win against Ninja, possibly by KO. Ninja's on a downslope, while Robbie has been on a nice little tear. Should be fun, though.



> But in the WW divison his striking is a lot better than most.


Well, yeah, but Davis, Lytle, & Joslin are all better.


----------



## FuTuReLeGenD

:dunno: ayt im jus throwin this out there but what about Mr. International Shonie Carter:confused02:


----------



## WouldLuv2FightU

I can't wait for Rua vs Lawler...that's gonna be a good one for sure.

Am I the only one who thinks Swick's KO on Alex Schoenhouer or however you spell his name was kinda weak? I swear to god I've seen that fight dozens of times and everytime I see it, it looks like Alex just pretends to get KOed. None of those hits looked to be hard enough to be KO power hits AT ALL, and a lot didn't even connect, then Alex just all the sudden falls slowly down. :dunno:


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

*Fedor status*

This is from an espn.com article. Hope it hasn't been posted i ran a search. Just the parts about fedor were cut and paste:

"Sherdog.com: As Fedor's manager, can you please fill us in on the current state of his contract negotiations.

VF: At the moment we are in negotiations with a number of organizations who have put offers on the table. I'll be blunt in saying that the UFC offer is the most financially attractive one. However they are very harsh in their terms and are not very flexible in actually negotiating them.

Fedor has now been the PRIDE heavyweight champion for four years and I think we have earned the right to negotiate a contract that suits both parties. Instead we are faced with a blunt "you are either in or you're out." This does not really suit us. If the negotiations continue in a similar manner, we'll prefer to fight for less money but with an organization which is more flexible.

The problem is that Fedor is the face of Combat ***** in Russia. His popularity is at a level where he is acquainted with president Putin himself, in part because he is so successful and well known for Combat ***** here.

Combat ***** is a Russian sport that's not at a level of difficulty of MMA, but is hugely popular with our public. Fedor must represent Russia in Combat ***** and at world championships, specifically the ones coming up in September. All we want him to do is compete something like once a year in Combat *****. But the UFC is not happy with that.

Their proposal has all kinds of clauses, all kinds of fines etc. that do not suit us. The UFC is not really that eager to communicate and negotiate. The negotiations are still continuing, and we will try very hard to get our demands met, if not Fedor will simply not compete in the UFC, even though that will be unfortunate as they currently have one of the, if not the, strongest, heavyweight divisions in the world.

Sherdog.com: What do you think of the way the UFC markets itself? I am asking specifically about an interview Dana White gave recently where he mentioned that the negotiations [for getting Fedor into the UFC] were continuing, but that he was dealing with "crazy Russians," and he wasn't sure what they were going to do next.

VF: I think that first thing is that the UFC politics are that they probably want an American champion. I think it's safe to say that in America this is the case.

But in theory, if the organization is honorable, take the Japanese for example, for them the sport and integrity of the success of the fighters was most important. Their philosophy was that once at a high level the fighters were going to be matched with only the top level of the competition, and we know that eventually if you only face the best, eventually you will lose.

The UFC is slightly different. They have their own ways of doing things. For example, I suggested that they have a UFC event in Russia, which I would organize for them, including financial assistance. They said that didn't suit their current development plans.

I requested the right to show UFC content during the television slot we have with the state broadcaster in Russia. They declined and said that they had their own people who would organize this here. And today those people came to me to ask me to place the UFC content into our slot. I was fine with this, it's going ahead. I'm not a spiteful person. What matters is the exposure of the sport in Russia, UFC, or other organizations, it doesn't matter. What's important to me is my fighters getting recognition and the sport gaining popularity here.

Of course I prefer that they came to me for help in Russia, in organizing an event for them here in St. Petersburg, or in Moscow, no on else could do what I can. There is no one in Russia that can even get close to us with MMA promotion.

Sherdog.com: As Fedor's manager, how long would you like to see his career progress for, and also who would you like to see him fight before he retires?

VF: He's only 30, there is lot's of time left to fight still. The UFC is of course fighting in the cage, not in the ring. And we'd prefer that he would not fight the very strongest opponent straight away. Of course we want to fight strong fighters, but would like an opportunity to grow, get a little used to the new format.

I have absolutely no doubt that right now Fedor is the strongest heavyweight in the world, and could beat anyone they throw at him, but we would nevertheless like an opportunity to develop a little, get used to the new surroundings. There are elbows now, etc.

Of course we want to fight with them. Though there are other opportunities, other organizations. There is the offer from K-1, a good offer, though a little less in terms of finances, mostly as they do not have the kind of revenue streams that the UFC currently has today, due to PPV.

But there are other factors. The UFC is only interested in Fedor; they are not considering other Red Devil fighters. K-1 is prepared to take our boys and provide other assistance as well, in developing the team. But we're not in a huge hurry. If Fedor is not signed for a while, I will organize a match here for him.

We have the resources and audience and television rights to make a good go of it here. The first large overseas organization that properly enters into Russia will do very well. But the UFC is not interested. They are only interested in North America and a few European shows.

I've tried to explain this to Dana White, I suggested working together as I believe there is a lot of potential in this part of the world for joint ventures to be hugely successful. Apart from Russia there are other former republics of the Soviet Union which will be good sources of revenue in the future also, as there is growing interest in the sport which will only increase over time."


----------



## vandalian

I have read it, but thanks for the article anyway. I hope he and the UFC can bridge the rest of the gaps between them, if any remain right now.
A lot of people expected Zuffa to lowball Fedor, but obviously they haven't. I wonder just how much they put on the table?


----------



## Aaronyman

i can understand the UFC's reasoning for not having Fedor compete in other MMA organizations...but not letting him compete in Combat *****, where he's only competing once a year, I think that's something they can afford to give up.

I'd love to see Fedor in the octagon, and I think that would almost seel the deal as far as having the best HW talent in the world (they already do, but not having Fedor would suck)


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

Yeah, I think right now that UFC needs to realize that maybe they need to give up something for the most respected MMA in the world. Sign him to a 1-fight deal and see if he is worth it. If so, give up that clause. (big) If not, then don't re-sign him.

Just another example of Dana White and his holier-than-thou approach to business relations with fighters.


----------



## vandalian

Aaronyman said:


> I'd love to see Fedor in the octagon, and I think that would almost seel the deal as far as having the best HW talent in the world (they already do, but not having Fedor would suck)


It would suck indeed. No UFC "world heavyweight champion" will ever be fully credible unless he's had the chance to beat Fedor.


----------



## Aaronyman

vandalian said:


> It would suck indeed. No UFC "world heavyweight champion" will ever be fully credible unless he's had the chance to beat Fedor.


i respect Fedor alot and he is the best in the world. But i want to see him in action against the best in the world to prove his greatness moreso, cuz frankly, if there's one thing I hate, it's Fedor worship and people thinking he's got some divine purpose.


----------



## vandalian

Aaronyman said:


> i respect Fedor alot and he is the best in the world. But i want to see him in action against the best in the world to prove his greatness moreso, cuz frankly, if there's one thing I hate, it's Fedor worship and people thinking he's got some divine purpose.


And I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he did get beaten in UFC at some point. Everyone loses eventually, if they're fighting credible opponents. 
But like you said, to be the best, you have to beat the best. Right now, Fedor is by most estimations the very best. So a UFC champ can't be the best if they haven't beaten him.


----------



## BrAinDeaD

It's only a matter of time before it happens and Fedor joins the UFC. I just wished they would hurry it up and reach an agreement.


----------



## Z-man-mma-fan

LOL anyone saying fedor has something to prove hasnt been watching much outside the UFC. hes already beaten the best in the world and in many different ways. he beat crocop in the standup. he beat noguiera on the ground. and thats not counting the fact that at it's prime, Pride ran out of guys to throw at Fedor. he has already sealed his place as the best heavyweight fighter in the world so far (and maybe ever). whos left in UFC to fight that he hasnt beaten? a broken and inconfident arlovski, a 44 year old man and a guy who got 1 good shot against a great opponent who was on a VERY terrible day. theres noone of high calibur left for him to fight IMO.


----------



## scepticILL

Isn't K1 just kickboxing? It wouldn't be good for Fedor to go there and give up all the other aspects of his game.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

No K-1 has a hero's division that is MMA. Signing many good fighters there too.


----------



## Toxie

Reading this got me mad. I have a feeling that Dana doesn't really want Fedor in the UFC and it's very bad for the sport. I mean, they are dealing with the best fighter there is and they should be alot more flexible on it. It would be a huge shame if Fedor didn't come to the UFC. :angry01:


----------



## GKY

Toxie said:


> Reading this got me mad. I have a feeling that Dana doesn't really want Fedor in the UFC and it's very bad for the sport. I mean, they are dealing with the best fighter there is and they should be alot more flexible on it. It would be a huge shame if Fedor didn't come to the UFC. :angry01:


I agree and disagree. 

I believe that Dana wants Fedor so he can without a shadow of a doubt say he has the best fighters in the world. On top of that, Fedor can easily become a bigger name then Cro Cop, who is a GIANT name already in Canada and possibly the USA. Fedor will no doubt bring in buy rates and international fans, and because of this he really wants him.

But at the same time Dana is scared of Fedor. I think he is truly worried that Fedor will do to the UFC what he did to pride and run through all the competition..multiple times. Fedor would become like Anderson Silva, just no real competition, even though its UFC's second biggest divison next to their LHW. And the Combat ***** problem comes, he want to own Fedor kind of like he owns Chuck. Fedor would have to become the face of the UFC HW division because noone can beat him. And Dana would hate for the face of his company to not only compete in other sports that aren't North American, but wouldn't even get royalties for it. 

Well thats my stance on it at least.


----------



## Davisty69

I don't think Dana gives a shit if Fedor were to come over and run through the UFC's HWs. I think it would make him a lot of money to try and find someone to take him down.

I do think that Fedor's open contract is relatively bad for business. He has the potentiality of getting hurt while doing the ***** tourny and then still being in a huge contract with the UFC. I think you all are giving Fedor way too much influence in this deal. He's just a fighter. Dana will offer him a deal worthy of his talents. If he doesn't think it's suitable, he'll walk.


----------



## hollando

Davisty69 said:


> I don't think Dana gives a shit if Fedor were to come over and run through the UFC's HWs. I think it would make him a lot of money to try and find someone to take him down.
> 
> I do think that Fedor's open contract is relatively bad for business. He has the potentiality of getting hurt while doing the ***** tourny and then still being in a huge contract with the UFC. I think you all are giving Fedor way too much influence in this deal. He's just a fighter. Dana will offer him a deal worthy of his talents. If he doesn't think it's suitable, he'll walk.


agreed

to bad dana cant just include a clause in there
if fedor becomes injured in any org outside the ufc and cannot fight

contract null and void


----------



## Davisty69

Looks like you just solved the problem


----------



## NaChOmAmA

The blatent ignorance on this board sometime just makes my jaw drop.

Fedor SHOULD be able to have an open contract. He wants to fight in his home country - so let him! Its only once a year and just make sure you NEVER schedule a fight around that competition. Its simple - Fedor would become the UFC champ and would fight what - 2 times a year at max. So say the competition is in Aug - have a fight in the UFC Dec - Jan and June (Im sure he wouldnt mind having less time to train for the ***** tourny if the UFC was willing to let it happen.

Dana like others have said, just likes to own everything because then he makes more money. 
Its all about money!
Stop kidding yourself


----------



## vandalian

NaChOmAmA said:


> The blatent ignorance on this board sometime just makes my jaw drop.
> 
> Fedor SHOULD be able to have an open contract. He wants to fight in his home country - so let him! Its only once a year and just make sure you NEVER schedule a fight around that competition. Its simple - Fedor would become the UFC champ and would fight what - 2 times a year at max. So say the competition is in Aug - have a fight in the UFC Dec - Jan and June (Im sure he wouldnt mind having less time to train for the ***** tourny if the UFC was willing to let it happen.
> Dana like others have said, just likes to own everything because then he makes more money.
> Its all about money!
> Stop kidding yourself


Put yourself in Dana's place, though. What if he gives Fedor what he wants and makes all these exceptions for him on top of the big cheque he's going to get and then Fedor comes over and pulls a Heath Herring (hey, _anything_ is possible). What the hell does UFC do then?
Of course it's all about the money. What else would it be about.
Does UFC, if they want the greatest, need Fedor? Absolutely. But to prove he really is the greatest, Fedor needs UFC, too.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

*Carlos Condit*

I have been watching the WEC recently and in the past. More recently though due to the large gap in between the two UFC's. There are a couple of guys that I think would do well in the UFC and Condit is one of them. His striking is good and subs are on par with most of the guys currently in that division. Now that BJ is lightweight. I would love to see this guy come over and fight some good talent. Faber is the other, but only as featherweight and since that probably won't be a division anytime soon that is out. I think Condit should come in and fight Karo, lytle, or Riggs as his first fight. His frame and height and style is a bad match-up for alot of the current WW's. Am I buying into this guy because he hasn't fought anybody or is this guy good? let me know.


----------



## +Shogun+

Agreed. Condit is an extremely exciting fighter and very well rounded. I think he would fair amazingly well in the UFC, but he is very young and has alot to learn.


----------



## Damone

Condit has wins over Charuto, Larson, Alessio, and Trigg; he's ready to do big things in the WW division. He'd do well in the UFC WW division, but he likes being in the WEC, and that's cool.


----------



## Calibretto9

I like Carlos too, and I think he could do well in the UFC, but personally I'd like to see him get at least 2-3 more title defenses in at the WEC before coming over. Condit has 4 losses, and 3 of those have come by way of submission. I'd like to see him develop all of his game, but especially his grappling, before jumping in with the den of grappling monsters that is the UFC's WW division. But, I most definitely do want to see him eventually over in the UFC. He's well rounded and exciting, but I want him to get as much experience as he can (He's still very young).


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

Thanks for the feedback guys...I didn't know most of his losses were via sub. That is interesting...his flexibility and transitions seemed pretty good to me in the fights I have seen. But thanks for the feedback. 

The reason this was brought up is because he was interviewed recently and thinks pretty highly of himself (as all fighters should). He was asked about the UFC and how well he thinks he would do. His response was that he would train hard and compete against anyone and looks forward to a unification bout with the WW title holder. i thought that was a little much. I mean just because there aren't too many 170 lb divisions out there doesn't mean he should compete with the champ of the UFC WW division right off the bat. I think the interview was on sherdog or espn. Don't really remember. But the above is a paraphrase and not direct at all. Just thought it was interesting. 

You guys are right he is young and still has a lot of learning to do. Would be great to see him develop in the UFC though.


----------



## bbjd7

Condit should really work on his wrestling because almost every fight I've seen of his which isn't many but he seems to get takendown and while he pulls guard against good BJJ guys like Shields who beat him he can't tap them like he did to Larson and Trigg.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

Actually I don't think Larson tapped. i think he was pretty upset it got stopped, because he didn't tap. But I don't know.


----------



## bbjd7

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Actually I don't think Larson tapped. i think he was pretty upset it got stopped, because he didn't tap. But I don't know.


No if you watch the replay I defiantly saw a tap


----------



## cdtcpl

I think Condit has done an extremely good job developing himself in WEC and I say let him have a year more of title defenses and then he should move up. Once he hits the UFC he will feel like a small fish in a big pond again.


----------



## cdtcpl

bbjd7 said:


> No if you watch the replay I defiantly saw a tap


No I don't think he tapped. I think the ref saw his arm starting to bend wierd ways and stopped it. Although I think he was just rolling his arm to keep it from getting broken I think the ref thought it was about to snap and stopped it before another Sylvia happened.


----------



## Calibretto9

bbjd7 said:


> Condit should really work on his wrestling because almost every fight I've seen of his which isn't many but he seems to get takendown and while he pulls guard against good BJJ guys like Shields who beat him he can't tap them like he did to Larson and Trigg.


This is actually what I was referencing above. Condit seems to fight in a very "Anderson Silva"-esque style, in that he doesn't seem to be terribly worried about being taken down, and gets taken down quite easily. The only problem with that is that he's not as experienced nor strong as the majority of the UFC's grapplers, and he's going to get taken down, hit and attacked with subs, and he's going to have a heck of a time. I'm not saying he couldn't pull another Larson win out of his hat, but it's going to be hard to do versus guys like GSP, KOS, Serra, Diego, Karo, Diaz, Hughes, Fitch, Sakurai, and possibly Penn (If he moves back up). Condit does not want grapplers of that caliber doing what Shields did to him.

Now, as I said, I think Condit has the potential to be a star even in the UFC, but he has to continue to develop his game. And, as bbjd7 mentioned, his wrestling is in dire need of strengthening. If he can learn to start stuffing takedowns while still keeping his standup active, he'd be one of the toughest competitors in the 170 division, period.


----------



## bbjd7

Condit has the stand up to fight with anyone in the WW divison and His ground game is on the small level as the great ground games in the UFC WW divison. But like I said before and Calibratto expanded on His wrestling will be his downfall. Shields isn't even the best grappler in the WW divison but when a guy is on top the whole fight and is good enough against submissions that you can't catch him in anything Condit needs to learn to stuff takedowns and stand and bang with people because except Joslin, Davis, Swick, and GSP I think Condit would dominate anyone else in the WW divison standing. and if Condit took someone down I'm sure he has submissions from the top.


----------



## DangerMouse666

He would def. be a good add. to UFC, I'm sure it will prob.be atleast another year, year and a half.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

*Rampage to be on ESPN First Take tomorrow morning.*

I think it starts at 10 am ET


----------



## royalking87

nice to bad i wont be able to watch it


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

you will probably be able to find it on this forum or some other, but if not you will be able to on espn.com somewhere for sure.


----------



## royalking87

true ill probably just watch it when i get home from work


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

*MMA Pound-4-Pound Rankings*

Saw this and thought I would let you guys argue about it for a while.

ESPN - August pound-for-pound rankings - MMA

Post my opinion later


----------



## DAMURDOC

sean sherk... lol


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

That is what I thought, where is GSP you know the guy that made him run to LW.


----------



## TheSuplexor

hmmm didnt know sherk would be on it and not gsp or bj penn.
I haven't seen much of milendez, aoki, or yamamoto so i dont know about them, but i would expect bj penn and gsp top ten.


----------



## Liddellianenko

Yeah, hey have that bi-tch Gomi at #7 but not the guy who owned him like a little girl in his own weight class: BJ Penn. BS. The only original UFC guy they mention is Sherk, who is another that I don't think deserves to be on the list. Bunch of PRIDE nuthuggers .. no mention of the obvious: GSP, BJ, maybe Liddell. I'd say as good as Gomi, Aoki and Sherk are, GSP, BJ and Liddell are WAAYY above them in skill, just inconsistent of late.


----------



## Davisty69

I agree, Sherk shouldn't be there and either GSP or BJ Penn should be. Though, BJ hasn't fought and beat enough top guys lately to be considered top p4p right now. IMO.


----------



## DropKick

As much as I like Rampage, he doesn't belong on a top ten pound for pound fighters list. I agree BJ and GSP should probably be on the list. Also W. Silva should probably be included as well as he has fought many HW's in his career and done well against them.


----------



## sirdilznik

I like "El Nino" as much as the next guy, I really do, but #3 P4P? Are these people insane? Meanwhile no GSP, Hughes, or BJ Penn? That list is correct at #1... arguably at #2 also. After that it's just way off.


----------



## Davisty69

wow, I can't believe I forgot Hughes. He's such a dominant Monster he definately deserves to be on the list over Sherk.


----------



## dutch sauce

im samre as everyone else gsp and bj gotta be there


----------



## keylocke

Matt Hughes dominated for how long before his last loss? And same with Lidell. I also thought BJ and GSP were sadly missing.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

*Favorite UFC knock out?*

Alright this should bring back some beautiful memories....mine though not spectacular or anything happened recently. Arlovski vs. Marcio Cruz. It was a weird KO. They were on the ground and coming out of a ref timeout or something and Arlovski looked at Cruz like I could so unch you in the face right now. Then he did and Cruz was completely rocked. It was funny as shit. It looked like it was happening in slow motion.

Let's hear yours and why.


----------



## Judoka

That KO is hilarious.

"Ready, Go!"..*Smack*


My favorite UFC KO is Rich Franklin Vs Nate Quarry at UFC 56, He hits him so clean.

A fair few of the older UFC's have awesome KO's.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

Yeah, that is definitely a highlight reel KO


----------



## NCK

I enjoy watching Slyvia/Arlovski as there is basically two knockouts.


----------



## CTFlyingKnee

James Irvin KO Terry Martin


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

CTFlyingKnee said:


> James Irvin KO Terry Martin


Love Rogan's commentary onn that one. And the Sandman puts Martin to sleep or something. Just classic Rogan.


----------



## Organik

BJ vs Cao was crazy


----------



## z-iron

Phil Baroni vs ? 
I don't remember the name but he took about 6 punches to the head while standing and was KO'ed on his feet.


----------



## Suvaco




----------



## Biowza

z-iron said:


> Phil Baroni vs ?
> I don't remember the name but he took about 6 punches to the head while standing and was KO'ed on his feet.


Thats David Menne, he got owned.

Curse you Wawaweewa, I was going to post that gif


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

That one against Crocop was nasty....his leg looked like it was trashed


----------



## kds13

My personal favorite used to be my avatar: 
Rashad Evans vs. Sean Salmon









And just for fun (not UFC):
Shogun vs. Overeem


----------



## Terry77

z-iron said:


> Phil Baroni vs ?
> I don't remember the name but he took about 6 punches to the head while standing and was KO'ed on his feet.


Dave Mene.


----------



## crazyeyezkilla

*favorite ko*

Pedro Rizzo knocking out Josh Barnett


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

kds13 said:


> My personal favorite used to be my avatar:
> Rashad Evans vs. Sean Salmon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another good clean shot.
> And just for fun (not UFC):
> Shogun vs. Overeem


Just Shogun being Shogun


crazyeyezkilla said:


> Pedro Rizzo knocking out Josh Barnett


Taking back to old school now. Wow I forgot all about that.


----------



## Fedor>all

Scott Smith/Pete Sell is one of my favourites that springs to mind.


----------



## MalkyBoy

Fedor>all said:


> Scott Smith/Pete Sell is one of my favourites that springs to mind.


that one rocked but i have a lot of love for Spencer Fisher vs Matt Wiman, with the devasting flying knee from the edge of nowhere. Awesome stuff


----------



## kds13

MalkyBoy said:


> that one rocked but i have a lot of love for Spencer Fisher vs Matt Wiman, with the devasting flying knee from the edge of nowhere. Awesome stuff


Yeah that was awesome...teaches you to never worry about what the crowd thinks...keep your eyes on your opponent. Wiman really wasn't doing too bad up until that point either.


----------



## Fedor>all

MalkyBoy said:


> that one rocked but i have a lot of love for Spencer Fisher vs Matt Wiman, with the devasting flying knee from the edge of nowhere. Awesome stuff


Man, have you seen Marius Zaromskis vs Ross Mason in Cage Rage? It ends very similarly (amazing fight that should be watched anyway):

http://mmafightvideos.blogspot.com/2008/01/marius-zaromskis-vs-ross-mason-amazing.html


----------



## kds13

Fedor>all said:


> Man, have you seen Marius Zaromskis vs Ross Mason in Cage Rage? It ends very similarly (amazing fight that should be watched anyway):
> 
> http://mmafightvideos.blogspot.com/2008/01/marius-zaromskis-vs-ross-mason-amazing.html


I'm glad you reminded me about that fight awhile back in the Pick Your Prospect Draft...I had forgotten about how incredible that KO was. :thumbsup:


----------



## mercom

vitor belfort vs wanderlei


----------



## Fedor>all

kds13 said:


> I'm glad you reminded me about that fight awhile back in the Pick Your Prospect Draft...I had forgotten about how incredible that KO was. :thumbsup:


Yeah that was an absolute stand-up clinic, his leg kicks are so swift and that knee couldn't have connected better. I can't wait to see Marios fight again, I'd really like to see a rematch between him and Ross Pointon.. I hate watching fights end because of cuts.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

Fedor>all said:


> Yeah that was an absolute stand-up clinic, his leg kicks are so swift and that knee couldn't have connected better. I can't wait to see Marios fight again, I'd really like to see a rematch between him and Ross Pointon.. I hate watching fights end because of cuts.


Not a negative comment at all....but that is funny coming from a Fedor fan. His only "loss" from a cut. Just irony at its best.

Thanks for the fight too. That was a good one that I never saw.


----------



## Fedor>all

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Not a negative comment at all....but that is funny coming from a Fedor fan. His only "loss" from a cut. Just irony at its best.
> 
> Thanks for the fight too. That was a good one that I never saw.


No problem. lol I sure know how to pick'em, eh? :laugh:

Another amazing performance by Marios can be seen here.. I really want a .gif of that spinning kick he pulled off, that was nuts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4e5x-yycro


----------



## capt_america

nick diaz vs robbie lawler :thumb02:


----------



## TraMaI

Not sure who it was, but some guy got rocked standing and the other guy side stepped asnd hit him in the temple like he was fuckign playing tee-ball or something.


----------



## wukkadb

z-iron said:


> Phil Baroni vs ?
> I don't remember the name but he took about 6 punches to the head while standing and was KO'ed on his feet.


I believe it was vs Dave Menne.

My favorite KO is Frank Shamrock vs Igor Zinoviev. He ended Igor's career with that slam


----------



## BrAinDeaD

Yves Edwards' headkick to Josh Thomson


----------



## capt_america

matt linland knocking out himself was odd too..


----------



## ean6789

Wawaweewa said:


>


why u gotta bring up bad memories lol

oh and of course the funny gray maynard self ko haha


----------



## mamfi

Gary Goodridge vs Paul Herrera. Early UFC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iBGEIkzL_8&feature=related


----------



## Greg (UK)

Gotta mention Scott Smith and Pete Sell for the crazy Rocky ending to their fight. David Loiseau's spinning kick to Charles McCarthy was awesome as well.


----------



## iSHACKABUKU

All of Andersons Silva's knock outs, thats the only way he wins you know


----------



## looney liam

i'm gonna go with chuck liddell vs tito 1. the quick flurry of punches was amazing, and seeing tito dazed on the floor not knowing where the hell he was, was even better.

if we were to go outside the ufc for best ko it would have to be anderson silva's elbow on tony frykland. i think thats the only standing elbow ko i've ever seen, it was truely amazing. 

heres the vid for whoever hasn't seen it

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JnpUkneMSWE


----------



## musdy

Pete Williams vs. Mark Coleman


----------



## Cartheron

Yet to see a cleaner one than this:-

Brad Kohler Vs Steve Judson

Jeff Blatnick working the commentary.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

*LHW title picture?*

I know Forrest and Rampage are suppose to fight...but what is going on after that is over? Where do Machida, Shogun, and Sokky stack up. Not to mention Thiago Silva and Liddell. 

I am in favor of Machida getting a shot, he has proven himself to me. Then maybe on that card having Shogun fight Sokky for #1 contender. 

Thoughts?


----------



## Fedor>all

I'd say Lyoto Machida should face Keith Jardine for the next shot.

Followed by Rashad Evans/Thiago Silva.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

Fedor>all said:


> I'd say Lyoto Machida should face Keith Jardine for the next shot.
> 
> Followed by Rashad Evans/Thiago Silva.


I think this would be the match that really exposes Rashad for the average talent he is. I agree with that scenario too. Just get these top guys in the ring and let them fight each other.


----------



## Fedor>all

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> I think this would be the match that really exposes Rashad for the average talent he is. I agree with that scenario too. Just get these top guys in the ring and let them fight each other.


To be honest, I think Rashad would beat Thiago via Lay'n'Pray. I'm really frustrated that TUF has to hold the divisions back from title matches for months :thumbsdown: Oh well, I suppose the LHW division needs time to work itself out before the true contenders can emerge.


----------



## toddums

Machida is next in line I hope.


Sokky is not even close to being a contender.


----------



## Fedor>all

toddums said:


> Machida is next in line I hope.
> 
> 
> Sokky is not even close to being a contender.


I agree! Personally, I think Lyoto's ready for a title shot right now. He's the most consistent guy in an extremely inconsistent division. Hell, he should really be getting a shot at Rampage before Forrest Griffin does, tbqh.


----------



## 2-D

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> I know Forrest and Rampage are suppose to fight...but what is going on after that is over? Where do Machida, Shogun, and Sokky stack up. Not to mention Thiago Silva and Liddell.
> 
> I am in favor of Machida getting a shot, he has proven himself to me. Then maybe on that card having Shogun fight Sokky for #1 contender.
> 
> Thoughts?


i think machida is fighting tito next. 

also shogun and sokoudjou haven't earned a shot yet. i think jardine should be next in line for a shot. sokoudjou or shogun needs to fight rashad or liddell. there's also wandy which i don't know who he could fight.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

2-D said:


> i think machida is fighting tito next.
> 
> also shogun and sokoudjou haven't earned a shot yet. i think jardine should be next in line for a shot. sokoudjou or shogun needs to fight rashad or liddell. there's also wandy which i don't know who he could fight.


I agree that they haven't earned a shot either, but before they came over you had a division of people that had either lost their shot or didn't deserve a shot. Then you bring over these world ranked guys. They haven't "earned" a shot yet. What are we to do? Just say, "Hey, Page, just sit there for like 2 yrs while we see who is worthy for the title shot." 

Sometimes I feel like the UFC has absolutely no plan for things. It is baffling sometimes.


----------



## looney liam

heres my rankings as of right now

1. lyoto machida - undefeated and coming off a decisive victory over sokoudju, who overrated or not was still a top 10 fighter at the time. his next fight is tito ortiz, and a win over tito will almost gaurantee that he is next in line for a title shot.

2. rashad evans - also undefeated, looked very talented coming off his tuf 2 win, but recently he's been a bit lackluster. if he pulled off exciting matchups against ortiz and bisping, he could have been ahead of machida.

3. keith jardine - he ko'd the current no1 contender and is coming off a win over the iceman chuck liddell. the only thing stopping him from being top of the list was that little hiccup against houstan alexander. i don't care what excuse you give for that fight, jardine got brutally ko'd by a newcomer, that's going to knock you back a few steps.

4. shogun - before the shocking loss to forrest griffin he was who many considered the no1 light heavy weight in the world. coming off a loss puts him low on the list, but after a few wins, and if rampage stays as champion i can see him boosted into a title fight simply because he's beaten rampage before. 

5. chuck liddell/thiago silva - i rank these guys around the same right now. thiago may be undefeated but he's not really been tested so far. chuck on the other hand has just coming off a 3 round war with wanderlei silva, and if he can redeem that loss to jardine he'll shoot up the ladder once again.


----------



## Couchwarrior

It probably be Jardine vs Machida for the title shot, but if there's truth to the rumors that Liddell is getting an instant rematch against Jardine, and since it's going to be a long time before the next title fight after Griffin vs Jackson anyway, I guess it's fair that Liddell would take Jardine's place if he manages to beat him the second time around. (Otherwise that rematch would make even less sense.)

And since there's plenty of time left, Machida might have another fight before he takes on Jardine/Liddell.


----------



## fenderman80

toddums said:


> Machida is next in line I hope.
> 
> 
> *Sokky is not even close to being a contender.*




Well said. Based on their last performances, I would give Wandy a shot at the title before Sokky.


----------



## Rubiness

Fedor>all said:


> I'd say Lyoto Machida should face Keith Jardine for the next shot.
> 
> Followed by Rashad Evans/Thiago Silva.


I think Machida deserves it already. Guy has proven himself for sure.


----------



## Fedor>all

Rubiness said:


> I think Machida deserves it already. Guy has proven himself for sure.


Yeah I agree with you, see my second post on the first page :thumb02:


----------



## 2-D

2-D said:


> i think machida is fighting tito next.
> 
> also shogun and sokoudjou haven't earned a shot yet. i think jardine should be next in line for a shot. sokoudjou or shogun needs to fight rashad or liddell. there's also wandy which i don't know who he could fight.


seeing how TUF is filming it give two fights for them to figure out everything. put jardine with wandy and if jardine wins he gets the next shot. if he loses and machida beats tito machida gets the shot. while this is going on have shogun fight liddell and rashad fight thiago


----------



## Robb2140

I would match Machida vs Jardine and T Silva vs Rashad. The winner of Lyoto/Jardine should get the #1 contender spot and The winner of Silva/Rashad should have to win one more to get thier chance.

Shogun is 0-1, Sokky is 0-1 and Wandy is 0-1 So they need to win 2-3 fights and beat a contender before they deserve a title shot. Chuck is 1-2 in his last 3 and has lost to Page twice now, IMO he has to work his way up the ladder and hope Rampage gets dethroned.

TBH I feel Machida should have gotten the shot over Griffin, but you can make a case for Forrest deserving his shot after beating Shogun. Also, Forrest is a fan favorite and I'm sure that had alot to do with him getting the Title shot.


----------



## Fedor>all

robb2140 said:


> I would match Machida vs Jardine and T Silva vs Rashad. The winner of Lyoto/Jardine should get the #1 contender spot and The winner of Silva/Rashad should have to win one more to get thier chance.
> 
> Shogun is 0-1, Sokky is 0-1 and Wandy is 0-1 So they need to win 2-3 fights and beat a contender before they deserve a title shot. Chuck is 1-2 in his last 3 and has lost to Page twice now, IMO he has to work his way up the ladder and hope Rampage gets dethroned.
> 
> TBH I feel Machida should have gotten the shot over Griffin, but you can make a case for Forrest deserving his shot after beating Shogun. Also, Forrest is a fan favorite and I'm sure that had alot to do with him getting the Title shot.


Exactly, not to mention Forrest would be more recognizable to casual fans than Machida on the next season of TUF. It really bothers me how that show freezes divisions for what feels like the longest time.


----------



## Damone

Sokky, Shogun and Wanderlei are all in the same boat. Each guy lost their UFC (In Wandy's case, his Zuffa-era debut) debut, so each guy, as stated, is 0-1. I wouldn't mind a Sokky vs Shogun fight, actually, since each guy needs a win in the UFC.

Machida, however, should be about one fight away from getting a title shot. Dude is too good, and has schooled some solid opponents in the UFC.

I'd rank Gouveia ahead of Wanderlei, Chuck, Sokky, and Shogun. Where are his props?


----------



## Shamrock-Ortiz

Damone said:


> I'd rank Gouveia ahead of Wanderlei, Chuck, Sokky, and Shogun. Where are his props?


Hmmmm..

Gouveia may have 4 wins in a row, but i think Chucks one recent win over Wanderlei puts him above Gouveia.

Gouveia beat Wes Combs, Seth Petruzelli and Carmelo Marrero which in no way would make you close to being a contender you have to beat decent fighters, im not downing those opponents but the light heavyweight division as it is you gotta beat better dudes then that, Gouveia was very unimpressive against Lambert and caught him.. That performance alone ignoring his other fights which only puts him above those guys, is not enough to put him above guys like Chuck, Wanderlei, Shogun.. He has to beat guys like that to move above them, i think so anyway. Those guys have already proven themselves. All Gouveia proved in his last fight is that he is not as good as Jason Lambert and is capable of catching someone with a shot.

With regards to the thread, Machida should be next in line and Forrest vs. Jardine 2 for No 1 Contender. But how it is at the moment, Machida vs. Jardine for no 1 contender but thats not happening so w/e. Don't have a clue what there planning.


----------



## Robb2140

Fedor>all said:


> Exactly, not to mention Forrest would be more recognizable to casual fans than Machida on the next season of TUF. It really bothers me how that show freezes divisions for what feels like the longest time.


I don't get it either:dunno:

Maybe Zuffa knows something that we don't, but holding up a belt for up to 6 months is just stupid. I think it's a little overkill on the hype. Forrest Griffin fighting for the title against the guy who beat Lidell 2X, should sell enough PPV's that a TUF lead up would almost be unecassary.

In the case of Serra/Hughes, there was bad blood between the coaches, that made a little bit more sense, but do Page and Griffin hate eachother? I don't think these guys hate anybody.


----------



## All_In

robb2140 said:


> In the case of Serra/Hughes, there was bad blood between the coaches, that made a little bit more sense, but do Page and Griffin hate eachother? I don't think these guys hate anybody.



Maybe the lack of bad blood might be their (Zuffa's) perceived problem. And by pitting them head-to-head in such close proximity for a lengthy time, maybe they're hoping to brew up some bad blood.

And the 6 month delay does suck. How long does it feel like since you saw Serra defend that belt? 69?! Anderson has decapitated like 9 dudes since then.


----------



## burton_o6

I just can't wait for this season to start. Forrest and Page as coaches is going to be hilarious.


----------



## wallysworld191

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> I know Forrest and Rampage are suppose to fight...but what is going on after that is over? Where do Machida, Shogun, and Sokky stack up. Not to mention Thiago Silva and Liddell.
> 
> I am in favor of Machida getting a shot, he has proven himself to me. Then maybe on that card having Shogun fight Sokky for #1 contender.
> 
> Thoughts?


Im just ganna throw this out there...2 out of 3 guys you mentioned just lost....so they wont be fighting for the title...obviously.


----------



## Damone

Shamrock-Ortiz said:


> Hmmmm..
> 
> Gouveia may have 4 wins in a row, but i think Chucks one recent win over Wanderlei puts him above Gouveia.
> 
> Gouveia beat Wes Combs, Seth Petruzelli and Carmelo Marrero which in no way would make you close to being a contender you have to beat decent fighters, im not downing those opponents but the light heavyweight division as it is you gotta beat better dudes then that, Gouveia was very unimpressive against Lambert and caught him.. That performance alone ignoring his other fights which only puts him above those guys, is not enough to put him above guys like Chuck, Wanderlei, Shogun.. He has to beat guys like that to move above them, i think so anyway. Those guys have already proven themselves. All Gouveia proved in his last fight is that he is not as good as Jason Lambert and is capable of catching someone with a shot.
> 
> With regards to the thread, Machida should be next in line and Forrest vs. Jardine 2 for No 1 Contender. But how it is at the moment, Machida vs. Jardine for no 1 contender but thats not happening so w/e. Don't have a clue what there planning.


He beat Lambert, so that counts as a solid win, especially since Lambert just beat Babalu.

Also, going on a win streak > Losing twice in a row and then beating another guy who lost twice in a row.


----------



## wallysworld191

Damone, why do you have such a hard on for Gouveia?

i dont really know enough about him to care, but you seem to really like the guy. i dont see it, what am i missing?

he was getting pretty worked by lambert, and threw straighter punches to get a flash knock out when they were brawling (not the biggest deal)


----------



## Damone

wallysworld191 said:


> Damone, why do you have such a hard on for Gouveia?
> 
> i dont really know enough about him to care, but you seem to really like the guy. i dont see it, what am i missing?
> 
> he was getting pretty worked by lambert, and threw straighter punches to get a flash knock out when they were brawling (not the biggest deal)


I think he's extremely well-rounded, wallysworld191. He's only lost once in the UFC, and that was against Jardine, in a fight that I scored in favor of Wilson Gouveia. Solid BJJ, solid striking, improved cardio, great camp, etc. All of these things make me believe that Wilson can be a serious contender.


----------



## wallysworld191

Damone said:


> I think he's extremely well-rounded, wallysworld191. He's only lost once in the UFC, and that was against Jardine, in a fight that I scored in favor of Wilson Gouveia. Solid BJJ, solid striking, improved cardio, great camp, etc. All of these things make me believe that Wilson can be a serious contender.


fair enough.

i think he needs more experience though before he can be really a leading guy. a few years from now he could be really good. i dont think hes ready yet though. 

sorry if it sounded like i was criticizing you, i was just curious.

hey btw theres going to be a grappling tournament here in spring field some time soon, ill be in it, if you wanna check it out.


----------



## Damone

It's all good, wallysworld191, I knew you weren't criticizing me. It's actually a good question.

I might have to check out that grappling tournament. I remember you PM'ing me about your school going all catch wrestling, which rules.


----------



## wallysworld191

yeah. kds is subposed to come roll with us sometime too. i think he'll be filming some of our stuff as well.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

*Which would more positively affect the UFC?*

Easy question just answer the poll and give a reason why.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

I say fighters' union would because it would not matter who commissioned, headed, or officed the UFC. The power would be spread out among many people withiin the organization and also among the players. It would be similar to other sports. I am currently a member of a union and it is a self sufficient system when ran properly. It takes into account raises over a certain perios of time, changes within the economy, and so forth. However, everyhting and I do mean EVERYTHING has to be negotiated.


----------



## shake&bake

agreed. a committee is needed to determine if we need a new committee. but that being said a union works well within a sports envirment as is evident with all major sports. a good idea for sure


----------



## cdtcpl

I dislike unions, and personally I don't believe either would have a positive affect on the UFC.

There is a time when Dana White will need to move on because he is no longer good for the UFC. I, personally, do not believe that time has come yet. He did well to bring it into the light, now they need someone like him to keep them above all the competition that has naturally risen because of this. 5 years, maybe 10 years, it will be time to step down, but for right now my personal feelings is he is the best man for the job.


----------



## ToeZup

Unions are just bad news. There is no way a fighter's union would help anything.
A union is formed because of some kind of contraversy. So forming a union brings instant controversy when things should be worked out between employer and employee.
It's bad for both. The employer looses money and the fighters do as well.

A new CEO would freshen things up and give the fighters the new hope they need to not form a union. This new CEO would have to listen to the fighters and everyone needs to work out an agreement. If the new CEO doesn't want to work with the fighters then the UFC would be asking for a union to form and that's bad.

So in the end I would say new CEO. A good CEO. That would help.


----------



## sicc

I said a union. I think Dana is really good at what he does...so good in fact that this question has even been raised. He is good at promoting fights yet he also has the fighters out there fighting for peanuts, so you need a union to balance him out.


----------



## All_In

I would say neither would be a good idea. 

The sport is young. Fighters can't be expected to take upon such role of power until the sport has established itself and the fan base is there to stay (to stay being the key aspect of that sentence). Just like any other sport, the pay increase will come with time (staying power, advertising deals, etc). With the business model they have in place - as opposed to boxing - they seem more concerned with making MMA a mainstay instead of a short-term profit churner. I don't see many advantages of a Fighter's Union, and the negative effect on the sport could be detrimental to the "unproven" staying power of MMA.

As for a new CEO - Dana is President, not CEO, correct? And if the question is regarding getting rid of either the CEO or President, I don't know where there is much argument. Much like most of the world, MMA is a results business. And one can't argue with what Dana and Zuffa have done for MMA. You can't make a basis for this on what you think he _should _ do or how you think his actions will affect the future - because you don't know the consequences. All you can say is this guy and the organization have done one hell of a job with what they had.


----------



## TraMaI

Couple things I wanted to say about these two fights. First off, we watched the PPV at my house and before it started they were showing the entire GSP/Serra 1 fight. I remember a while back people were saying that GSP got totally out-boxed in their first fight. I think this was coming from a Serra fan thinking he would win again or something to that extent. Well, watching the fight again, GSP was totally dominating Serra before he caught that hook, and while he was rocked he got out boxed, not during the whole fight.


Second I wanted to say that my respect level for Serra went WAY up after the second fight. Him carrying GSP around and congratulating him was an awesome show of class and respect. That's why I love MMA is because of fights ending like that. I hated Serra before this fight because I thought he was totally loud mouthed and arrogant. Now though, I'll be pulling for him in a lot more fights.


----------



## RushFan

Rushfan said:


> Time for some Objective Analysis
> Ok. I've had enough. It's time for some logical analysis of the Serra vs St Pierre rematch. I will anlayse the strengths and weaknesses of each man based on their last 3 fights in the UFC and TUF series.
> SERRA:
> vs Shonie Carter - battled hard for a decision victory due to slightly superior grappling. However, Serra's submission attempts were flimsy and he was rocked standing up ( spinning back fist ) and was slammed hard also.
> vs Chris Lytle - Serra eked out a win due to the most disgraceful judging display I have ever seen. All judges scored it 30 - 27, for a split decision . Serra's offensive arsenal consisted of feeble takedown attempts that led to a foot stomp fest against the cage. Serra did not dominate standing or on the ground.
> Vs St Pierre - Serra won by TKO. Perfect fight by Serra, landed a strike which rocked his opponent and kept landing haymaker right hands until he mounted and ended the fight.
> 
> St Pierre:
> vs Serra - Lost by TKO. See above. St Pierre claimed personal issues disrupted his preparation for the fight.
> vs Koscheck - Win by UD. Completely dominated the fight. Out wrestled one of the most decorated college wrestlers in the UFC.
> vs Hughes - Win by Sub. Another completely dominant performance against a legend of the sport. St Pierre displayed a truly lethal and complete MMA skill set.
> 
> Now, can we all agree that GSP > Lytle and Carter? OK.
> 
> Given these facts it now follows that :
> 1. GSP has an advantage in takedowns and takedown defence.
> 2. GSP has an advantage in grappling .
> 3. It is unlikely that Serra can catch GSP in a submission.
> 4. GSP has more developed stand up striking.
> 5. GSP has superior GnP
> 
> Im not saying Serra can't win, I'm just saying that the ONLY way Serra can win is to replicate what happened in their first fight. However, this will require a great deal of cooperation from Georges. Is GSP going to just walk onto five right hand haymakers? Probably not given that he is "not the kind of person to make the same mistake twice."


I get tired of being right.:thumb01:


----------



## TraMaI

*Fitch confirmed for UFC 94*

His website (www.fitchfighter.com) says that Jon will be fighting Akihiro Gono at UFC 94. It's not yet up on the UFC site though. Either way WAR FITCH!


EDIT: Im tired... wrong forum lol sorry


----------



## TraMaI

*Fitch confirmed for UFC 94*

Jon Fitch's website, www.fitchfighter.com, says that he has been confirmed to figh Akihiro Gono at UFC 94. 






WAR FITCH!!!


----------



## DiamondDash2k

will gono come out with his wig and do a little performance like in pride? i hope so. Either way, FTW Jon Fitch.


----------



## TraMaI

*TraMaI's UFC 92 Picks!*

This is my UFC fantasy pick list. Doing this because who doesn't want to see me stick my foot in my mouth 












Also I noticed looking at the site Mike Wessel is from Celina, Oh. Thats like 20 minutes from my place  thats why I picked him lol


----------



## CornbreadBB

TraMaI said:


> This is my UFC fantasy pick list. Doing this because who doesn't want to see me stick my foot in my mouth
> 
> 
> UFC® 92 THE ULTIMATE 2008
> 
> 
> 
> Wanderlei Silva v. Quinton Jackson
> Winner: Wanderlei Silva Technical Knock Out 2 2
> Cheick Kongo v. Mostapha Al Turk
> Winner: Mostapha Al Turk Submission (Arm Lock) 1 4
> 
> Winner: Mike Wessel Technical Knock Out 1 2
> Matt Hamill v. Reese Andy
> Winner: Matt Hamill Unanimous Decision 3 5
> Ryo Chonan v. Brad Blackburn
> Winner: Ryo Chonan Submission (Choke) 1 2
> Dan Evensen v. Pat Barry
> Winner: Pat Barry Technical Knock Out 1 3


Hold on, I'm drunk and agree with most of your picks. I'm not so sure what pissed me off. LOL


----------



## screenamesuck

You mean Nog, not Gonzaga, but there is a chance he can win by decision, but thats the only way I see him winning. I have Nog by decision though


----------



## Fedor>all

CornbreadBB said:


> Hold on, I'm drunk and agree with most of your picks. I'm not so sure what pissed me off. LOL


Mir won't beat Gonzaga because he's not fighting him. Also LOL @ Mir winning a 5 ROUND decision over Nogueira.. really? REALLY?


----------



## TraMaI

I really feel like Mir's going to pull it out and that's the only real way I see it happening. That or by cut


----------



## screenamesuck

Unless I decide to change my picks at the last minute, which I do sometimes (and regret) these are my picks...

Griffin- Unanimous Decision
Nog- Unanimous Decision
Silva- 1st rnd TKO
Kongo- 2nd rnd TKO
Okami- Unanimous Decision
Chonan- Unanimous Decision
Hamill- Unanimous Decision
Barry- 1st rnd TKO
Hardonk- 1st rnd TKO
Massenzio- 1st rnd Submission



Fedor>all said:


> Mir won't beat Gonzaga because he's not fighting him. Also LOL @ Mir winning a 5 ROUND decision over Nogueira.. really? REALLY?



Hey its totally possible and you should know that with the way things go nowadays lol. Mir knows enough on the ground to be able to keep Nog there and control him without getting caught. Nog is the better fighter all around standing and on the ground, but I think Mir is good enough not to get caught with a submission. I don't think either fighter will sub the other. I think the only way Mir can win is to grind out a decision, but Nog can win this standing if needed. I see Mir getting tired by the end of round 2 and Nog will just do his thing until the end of the 5th


----------



## Fedor>all

screenamesuck said:


> Hey its totally possible and you should know that with the way things go nowadays lol. Mir knows enough on the ground to be able to keep Nog there and control him without getting caught. Nog is the better fighter all around standing and on the ground, but I think Mir is good enough not to get caught with a submission. I don't think either fighter will sub the other. I think the only way Mir can win is to grind out a decision, but Nog can win this standing if needed. I see Mir getting tired by the end of round 2 and Nog will just do his thing until the end of the 5th


Yeah, I know anything can happen nowadays, but still. I'd consider Serra beating GSP in the first fight more likely than Frank Mir going 5 full rounds.

Nogueira is going to batter Frank on the feet for three rounds, then I think he'll either TKO or sub him in the fourth when he's spent.


----------



## Xerxes

Wow, I can't believe so many people see Mostafa "photo coming soon, height and weight n/a" Al-Turk winning tomorrow.
So Kongo 12-4 in his career and 5-2 in the Octagon is the underdog against Al-Turk 6-3 in his career...


----------



## TraMaI

lol do research kiddo. Just because UFC doesnt have his info up doesnt mean his info isnt somewhere


----------



## Xerxes

That wasn't really the point. Just how can he be the underdog (on this forum) against a guy that most of the people didn't see fight before and don't know much about?


----------



## CornbreadBB

Honestly, your predictions about Nog and Okami are so off. Let's sig bet this shit!. There is no way Mir will win same with Lister winning.


----------



## Judoka

Good picks, except Nogueira Vs Mir.

I don't think Mir will win this one, let alone by decision. I think Okami will win too.


----------



## NATAS

> Unless I decide to change my picks at the last minute, which I do sometimes (and regret) these are my picks...
> 
> Griffin- Unanimous Decision
> Nog- Unanimous Decision
> Silva- 1st rnd TKO
> Kongo- 2nd rnd TKO
> Okami- Unanimous Decision
> Chonan- Unanimous Decision
> Hamill- Unanimous Decision
> Barry- 1st rnd TKO
> Hardonk- 1st rnd TKO
> Massenzio- 1st rnd Submission



Thank you for posting all the picks i like, you must be a smart man like myself! lol

Although i dont see Nog, NOT finishing him. Seriously. He finished Big Tim which Arlovski couldnt do! and Mir is no Arlovski.


----------



## unclehulka13

I really like Mir, but there aren't many ways he can win this. Hopefully he pulls something out, I'll be upset if he doesn't.


----------



## JT42

Evans - UD
Nog - TKO
Wandy - UD
CB - UD
Kongo - TKO
Okami - UD
Hardonk - TKO
Hamill - UD
Chonan - UD
Barry - TKO

I predict lots of decisions apparently!


----------



## Judoka

JT42 said:


> Evans - UD
> Nog - TKO
> Wandy - UD
> CB - UD
> Kongo - TKO
> Okami - UD
> Hardonk - TKO
> Hamill - UD
> Chonan - UD
> Barry - TKO
> 
> I predict lots of decisions apparently!


Change Rashad to Forrest and Dalloway's fight and that is my predictions.


----------



## screenamesuck

I'm going back and forth on Rampage/Silva and Evans/Griffin, ugh decisions decisions


----------



## LoganDaBoxer

I agree with all except for the Nog vs. Mir fight. Nog wins by submission.


----------



## TraMaI

NATAS said:


> Thank you for posting all the picks i like, you must be a smart man like myself! lol
> 
> Although i dont see Nog, NOT finishing him. Seriously. He finished Big Tim which Arlovski couldnt do! and Mir is no Arlovski.


Mir finished TIm too....


----------



## Fedor>all

NATAS said:


> Thank you for posting all the picks i like, you must be a smart man like myself! lol
> 
> Although i dont see Nog, NOT finishing him. Seriously. He finished Big Tim which Arlovski couldnt do! and Mir is no Arlovski.


I'm guessing you never watched the first fight between Arlovski and Sylvia. :confused02:


----------



## D.P.

My picks for the main events:

Evans- By UD
Mir- By miracle
Rampage- By UD


----------



## Xerxes

For the main card:

Evans via (T)KO (or DEC.)
Nog via DEC.
Wandy via (T)KO
CB via SUB
Kongo via (T)KO


----------



## A1yola06

*Picks*

RASHAD by decision 
NOG by submission
WAND by TKO


----------



## TraMaI

WEll then, my picks went to hell. Mir won though! That's the one i was confident in!


----------



## D.P.

I picked the winners correctly, just not the how..what a night.


----------



## Fedor>all

TraMaI said:


> WEll then, my picks went to hell. Mir won though! That's the one i was confident in!


Tough card to pick, I was 1/3 with the big fights. Rep to you for the Mir prediction though, I'm still in awe.


----------



## Xerxes

Props to everybody predicting Rampage's win, I really didn't expect this. 
I'm so happy for Rashad though, that only made my night.


----------



## TraMaI

*Winner of GSP/Penn*

Needs to fight A. Silva. Then we can have the #1 p4p best in the ufc on the line (maybe they could make a new belt for that?). What do you guys think about that? UFC 100 would be awesome to have this at.


----------



## Walker

Dana has already stated that the winner, regardless of who it is, will fight Thiago Alves for the WW title.

Honestly I'm not in a super rush to see two divisions get put on hold for another super-fight so quickly after this one.


----------



## TraMaI

Yeah I guess thats true too. But sometime in the near future, like the end of the year maybe? For their 2009 new years card?


----------



## Bebop

Dana has also said that "Even if BJ wins.. he'll never fight Silva". Just too big of a weight difference.

That said. If St Pierre and Anderson fought, and Silva won. With the weight difference, does that really make Silva the better P4P fighter..? :confused02:


----------



## Brydon

GSP vs Silva I would love to see if he beats BJ and Thiago. BJ vs Anderson at 185 not so much, I believe BJ thinks he can win that fight but I feel Anderson would brutally KO him early.


----------



## TraMaI

mkae it at a catchweight. like 177, midway between WW top and MW top. kind of like hughes/gracie


----------



## Walker

TraMaI said:


> Yeah I guess thats true too. But sometime in the near future, like the end of the year maybe? For their 2009 new years card?


If Silva is truly going to retire after this year- I'd be down for them to match him up with GSP before that just to see that fight. If he does go into retirement and they were both on their current win-streak it would be a shame not to see that fight.


----------



## cdtcpl

TraMaI said:


> mkae it at a catchweight. like 177, midway between WW top and MW top. kind of like hughes/gracie


If A.Silva could make the weight it would serious hurt his performance. That is the big problem with these fights, they tend to have to be at the heavier persons weight class. Like GSP could never make it to 155 without seriously affecting his health and performance.


----------



## TERMINATOR

This better not happen i know i said it before but Penn vs Gsp will be awesome i just wish BJ wasnt ther current lw champ because its such bs to have the lws weight on almighty Penn to return


----------



## CornbreadBB

Yeah, we should just do away with weight classes altogether. I want to see Nate Diaz vs Big Nog. :confused02:


----------



## Xerxes

Winner will get Alves first. 

Dana said he'll never let BJ fight A. Silva but I think if (big if) BJ beats of GSP, Alves and then Florian, the fans will start claiming A.Silva/Penn for best P4P fighter crown and Dana won't have any other choice than making the fight happen.


----------



## Where'stheCrow?

Xerxes said:


> Winner will get Alves first.
> 
> Dana said he'll never let BJ fight A. Silva but I think if (big if) BJ beats of GSP, Alves and then Florian, the fans will start claiming A.Silva/Penn for best P4P fighter crown and Dana won't have any other choice than making the fight happen.


I think he would have to be dominant.


----------



## Xerxes

Not necessarily. If he wins these 3 fights what will be left for him? Koscheck or Fitch at 170? Sherk or Stevenson rematch at 155? Maybe Diego Sanchez but that's too early to tell. 

The fans will only want to see Penn/Anderson and the UFC is here to deliver fights that the fans want to see the most.


----------



## adobostreak

CornbreadBB said:


> Yeah, we should just do away with weight classes altogether. I want to see Nate Diaz vs Big Nog. :confused02:


or sherk vs lesnar


----------



## Vikingpride

If GSP beats Bj then i would love to see him fight Silva, but not until after he at least fought Alves. Alves is the clear #1 contender at 170 and it would be a travesty if they just pass him over.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81

i think the whole idea of a fight to decide p4p champion is really counterintuitive isn't it?


----------



## looney liam

if gsp gets through penn and alves then i'd be all for him moving up, theres really noone left for him at ww after alves. i'd still like to see him get a no1 contenders match at mw before challanging for the title though.

i wouldn't be interested in penn moving up at all. to move up a weight and challange for the title you really need to wipe out the division your in first. penn hasn't even wiped out the lw division yet, sure penn beat sherk, but theres still quite a few guys for him to fight.


----------



## zarny

IF GSP beats both BJ and Alves I'll be shocked if GSP/Silva isn't the next fight. It makes sense on too many levels for the UFC not to do it.

First I think you can argue GSP will have at least temporarily cleaned out the division. 

Maybe Sanchez and Swick would disagree, but with Fitch and Alves getting their title shots I don't see any other ww that has separated himself from the pack. No one will be forced to wait if they slide in another superfight for GSP imo.

It's a huge money maker. Nuff said and probably the biggest factor.

There is only so long that fight is huge. Things don't always go as planned. Either GSP or Silva loses and their fight loses its appeal. They won't want to sit on a fight that big for too long.

If BJ beats GSP and then Alves I don't think he'll fight Silva. Unless he vacates the 155 title he's going to have to defend that strap first. I also think the UFC would do GSP/Penn III before allowing BJ to fight Silva. Dana is also not a fan of the idea either and he does get final say.


----------



## Where'stheCrow?

Xerxes said:


> Not necessarily. If he wins these 3 fights what will be left for him? Koscheck or Fitch at 170? Sherk or Stevenson rematch at 155? Maybe Diego Sanchez but that's too early to tell.
> 
> The fans will only want to see Penn/Anderson and the UFC is here to deliver fights that the fans want to see the most.


Yeah, you're right. I meant from my perspective BJ would have to be dominant to move up (if I were making the match).


----------



## BazDaManUk

winner needs to fight Alves

I heard that if GSP wins those two he could meet Silva at catchweight, I don't see the point in that tbh.

Also Silva would really k.o either of the fighters, he just has too much for them, he's too big and too powerful. If its a 3 round fight they have a chance but a 5 rounder, it's too long for Silva not to catch them and I can't them troubling him too much, apart from maybe GSP's takedowns but he won't be strong enough to hold him down every round.


----------



## TraMaI

*TraMaI's UFC 94 Picks (and why!)*










Okay as is becoming habit with me, I'm submitting my predictions to the forum for the upcoming UFC card. Also since I havent really done my own breakdown for this fight I'm going ot include that too! HERE WE GO!


*GSP v BJ*

This is the fight that everyone is wigging out about, and for good reason. The two fighters are some of the best in the game and they are exact opposites of one another in almost every way. What one fighter lacks, the other fighter excells at. GSP has wrestling, Athleticism and Cardio on his side, while BJ has Boxing and BJJ on his side. Now neither of them are slouches in any area, they just aren't as strong in that area as others. Now here's where I disagree with a lot of people here. BJ does not have better striking than GSP. BJ DOES have much better boxing though, but GSP has far better kicks and GnP. Therefore I see it being almost a stalemate on the feet with GSP hammering legkicks in the first round, then then sticking with it in the second until they are nice and sweaty and then taking BJ down and pounding on him until BJ tries to improve his position and then standing back up. Rinse and repeat. I think this tactic will gas BJ fairly quick with the pace GSP tends to keep up. "But wait TraMaI, Bj's cadio is much improved! He didnt gas in his last fights!", you say. Well sure, he didn't, but I dont think Sherk or Joe Daddy put up the kind of fight or pace that GSP is going to give BJ. Joe was tenative at best and just got owned on the ground. Sherk has T-Rex arms and threw nothing but hooks and loopy uppercuts the whole fight. GSP is not going to stand there and get hit like Joe and he's not going to throw hooks and not shoot like Sherk. He's going to be all over the place on BJ I think, and I think it will gas BJ. I see it happening by the late third, early fourth and GSP will take him down and pound him out.

*Machida v T.Silva*

Great fight in my mind. Thiago has great striking but Machida is really evasive and will find the openings in his game. Silva's best bet would be to get this to the ground and try to pound Machida out, but I dont think that will happen. Thiago has a good chin and strong sub defense so I see machida winning by doing what he does best, making Silva miss and hurting him when he does

* Bonner v jon jones*

To Be completely honest, I've never seen Jones fight haha. However, seeing as how he's only fought once in the UFC, and Bonner is a very well rounded fighter I see him taking it. Hopefull Bonner's movie hasnt interfered with his training.

*Manny vs Tavares*

I think manny still has a chance in this fight. He's got really heavy hands and good submissions so he could still take it. I wouldnt be surprised. However, Tavares is the more experienced fighter and I think he'll be all over manny and grind out a UD.

*Fitch vs Gono!!!*

Anyone who knows me here knows I'm a Fitch fanboy. However, it's not just because of that I see Fitch winning this. Fitch is a really strong wrestler and I think he'll do his thing and grind Gono down. Fitch is also a brown belt last time I checked in BJJ, so I think he has the skillset to submit him after he grinds him down. Gono has some good subs, but as we saw with his fight against Diego, Fitch has borderline amazing submission defense and we all know the guy will never be choked out, its like he has a steel implant over his neck haha.

*Diaz vs Guida*
Okay, so this one is more of an emotionally biased pick. I hate Nate diaz. Just don't like him. He's got poor sportmanship and just acts like a jackass. I really like Clay on the other hand. I think Clay will come out blazing like he always does, brush off Nates punches, take him down adn pound him out, or I hope so. I'd be happy if Guida just laid on him and beat him TBH haha.

*Karo vs kim*

Another great match up. Two really good Judo players. I think the deal breaker in this fight is pace, and Karo has one hell of a pace. I see him taking the fight standing, then getting to the ground somehow and grinding Kim down for three rounds like he does so much. Looking forward to see this though.


AND THERE IT IS! As you'll notice, i didn't include some of the undercard fights. My browser crashed midway through this write-up and I really didn't feel like re-typing them haha. Tell me what you think! :thumb02:


----------



## Emericanaddict

Good picks but ive got Aroyyo over Cramer and Manny subbing Tavares in the 3rd after some hardcore human blanketing. (He did it to J-Lau(minus the sub) he can do it to Thiago.)


----------



## TraMaI

Like I said, wouldnt surprise me at all


----------



## bail3yz

I think Clay will win, but he wont be able to finish Nate..
Clay is the superior wrestler so he can pick where the fight goes.. hes gonna UD it.

Manny will Lay N Pray a decision.
Same goes with Jake O Brien.


----------



## Suizida

Chris Wilson v the former Aus priminister 
Chris Wilson is probably the most underrated fighter in the WW division....maybe the UFC


----------



## TeamNogpwns

Ive got Nate winning by Sub off his back, something like a triangle transitioned into an armbar. I like both these guys alot and it's going to be a very good fight. I don't see Clay finishing Nate so there will be alot of chances for him to get caught.


----------



## SpecC

I'd like to see a Chris Wilson KO so he can get on some main cards.


----------



## Aaronyman

lol at guida finishing nate diaz....c'mon man...that ain't happening...i bet on him too, but there is no way he finishes diaz


----------



## TraMaI

haha well like I said, emotional bias on that one. I really hope he does finish him somehow though.


----------



## Damone

What is up with Kramer tapping Arroyo?


----------



## TraMaI

oh man, good night. Everyone but three  Almost called GSP exactl but I went rnd 4 2 minutes in the end lol


----------



## TraMaI

*Jon Fitch: Back and Better*

So being the Fitch fan that I am, I had to go find his fight with gono to see how it went. I was very happy I did. Watching the fight from the begining Jon seems to have a new confidence on his feet. His boxing looks more crisp (he isn't throwing those damn loose jabs anymore!), his Thai is improving greatly and he even stepped away from him usual game plan of "stick them to teh mat and beat the crap out of their face for 15 minutes" to stand and trade and he even fired a few subs at Gono. I had the fight called with Jon winning by Armbar in the second, and wouldn't you know that's when he decides to throw an armbar. It missed, but it shows marked improvement in my eyes. Fitch is now trying to FINISH his fights instead of grinding them out. With the way Dana likes to shove the same people into title shots, I could see fitch getting one after he wins another fight or two. Hopefully by that time his experience grows even more and he can challenge GSP. I havent seen a thread about his fight any where on here, so what do you guys think?

(if you need to, the fight is on MMATKO.com)


----------



## towwffc

Fitch looked very good in this fight and completly outworked and wore down Gono. That being said I agree with something Joe Rogan said during this fight about how Fitch should show off more of his jui jitsu skills by trying to pass and perhaps get to a mount rather than staying in gaurd and trying to inflict damage from there. But i'm not taking anything away from Fitch he handled Gono for 3 rounds and even nearly pulled off an armbar. I see him working his way back up to the top and if he gets a loss it will only be to top notch competition. Kinda sucks that we'll never get to see him fight Koscheck or Swick though because those fights would be awesome.


----------



## Xerxes

Wrong section, this section is dedicated to back greasing issues. Please post this on the UFC forum.

Jokes apart, yeah he did improve his myu thai but too bad he didn't get to finish it. I'd love to see him fight Alves for a second time. Anyone knows how much Fitch walks at?


----------



## Fedor>all

I've become a much bigger Fitch fan since he started to come out of his shell in interviews, I would like to see him hold the belt some day. That said, I really don't think he looked as good as he usually does in his fight with Gono, aside from the slick transition to an armbar at the end of the second.


----------



## Darkgecko

I expected a finish by Fitch, but Gono didn't make that easy. As I said in another thread, Gono kept giving up his back, and Fitch wasn't able to do much from there, except attempt that amazing armbar at the end of the round.


----------



## TraMaI

Yeah, well i attribute Fitch not being able to finish him to Gono's experience level. HE has like 50+ fights so he's seen a lot. Gono also has some good grappling, would've been sick to see fitch pull it out though. I have a feeling that if he works on his Thai an dmakes his BJJ more offense based before his next fight he's going to finish it easily.

Also, I dont mind not seeing him pass guard. the majority ofthat fight he sat in half guard (or on gono's back lol) and sat on his leg, ala Randy. I rather like that technique.


----------



## NATAS

The only thing that ever has impressed me by Fitch was his ability to take a beating against GSP, that was just raw.


----------



## Darkgecko

TraMaI said:


> Also, I dont mind not seeing him pass guard. the majority ofthat fight he sat in half guard (or on gono's back lol) and sat on his leg, ala Randy. I rather like that technique.


Yes, and he has great control. But if he wants to make another run for the belt, he's going to have to improve his striking, and become more dangerous on the ground. His jitz is solid, but not dangerous. It's possible that he is just not taking risks, but if he wants off of the undercard, he's going to have to start finishing fights.

Still remains my favorite fighter, and I wasn't expecting to see the best Fitch considering how much damage he took in the GSP fight. Fitch has more heart than anyone else in his division, and he is at a great camp.

The future is bright. Unfortunately, I don't see him beating Alves or GSP yet. And he's going to have to wait for Kos and Swick to take their shot at those guys.

I would love to see Fitch fight Hazelett, who has some very dangerous BJJ.


----------



## TheNinja

Darkgecko said:


> Yes, and he has great control. But if he wants to make another run for the belt, he's going to have to improve his striking, and become more dangerous on the ground. His jitz is solid, but not dangerous. It's possible that he is just not taking risks, but if he wants off of the undercard, he's going to have to start finishing fights.
> 
> Still remains my favorite fighter, and I wasn't expecting to see the best Fitch considering how much damage he took in the GSP fight. Fitch has more heart than anyone else in his division, and he is at a great camp.
> 
> The future is bright. Unfortunately, I don't see him beating Alves or GSP yet. And he's going to have to wait for Kos and Swick to take their shot at those guys.
> 
> I would love to see Fitch fight Hazelett, who has some very dangerous BJJ.


Well-Said...I would love to see Fitch learn Muay thai..Graet Muay Thai...He has long Legs and sharp elbows..He could throw some killer knees, kicks, elbows and his clinch would be sick with his wrestling background...This is what he needs to rise up :thumb01:


----------



## Hellboy

NATAS said:


> The only thing that ever has impressed me by Fitch was his ability to take a beating against GSP, that was just raw.


:thumbsdown:

Winning 8 fights in a row didn't impress you ?


----------



## Wise

With all the crap that he went through with the UFC its good to see him get this win. Sucks it had to come at the probable cost of Gono's UFC spot but dems the bricks. 

Fitch is still the number two guy in the division in my eyes and I think if he fought Thiago again he would win it.


----------



## TraMaI

*TraMaI's UFN Lauzon vs Stephens Predictions! (and why)*











So once again, I'll be breaking down the fights of the weekend in the UFC. The Ultimate Fight Night thing is a bit forgein to me. Usually you have a bit to go on, but with UFNs they showcase fighters that aren't all that well known. It took quite a bit of effort to dig up tape on some of these dude, and some didn't even have any (Matt Veach >:[ ). So predicting a UFN is going to be a test of my skill at this. HERE WE GO!

*Lauzon VS Stevens*
This is going to be a good fight. Stevens is a little pitbull and I have a feeling is going to be agressive in this one too. Coming off that sweet KO victory, He's going to be confident. Lauzon has some quality jitz for sure, but I think Jeremy has the TDD to keep it standing. I'm giving this fight to Stevens because I don't think Lauzon is going to fare well against a solid, agressive kickboxer.


*Grace V Veach:*
Like I said, couldnt find anything on Veach. "Well why'd you give it to him then!?" STFU, I'm getting there ok? Two reasons I gave it to Veach. One: They're both solid wrestlers so I cant go with Aaron's plan of "Pick the better wrestler," Thanks a lot Aaron! Two: Grice has been submitted, Veach is undefeated. RNC is one of the easiest and most common subs in the UFC, and Grice has been subbed via Guillotine. Giving it to Veach via RNC.

*Catone v Downey:*
Two m ore dudes that it's somewhat hard to find stuff, but I found a few HL of them. Catone is a beastly wrestler and seems to control people pretty well. However, Catone has some subpar (read sloppy) striking. Downey is an OK striker from what I saw, not great but a bit more solid than Catone. Another thing is that Downey has some really good jitz. So while Catone's only option is take Downey down and grind out a victory (or possible TKO) Downey can take the fight standing or try to sub him. Downey via Kimura.

*Danzig v Neer*
Wow. Hard one to call too. Both men are pretty well rounded. Neer has some excellent Striking and Danzig has a stellar ground game. Both men are coming off decision losses so I think they are going to be hungry to make this one decisive. While Neer has some good GnP and some good striking, I think Danzig take this because of his chin. I think at 155 danzigs chin will hold up well. Danzig via Sweep Kimura from against the cage.

*Tibau v Clementi*
Tibau is obviously one of the biggest mofuckin' 155ers on the planet. He's got solid wrestling and he's really explosive. I see him really dictating where this fight goes. Glieson, GnP TKO

*Velasquez vs Stojnic*
This fight has bad news written all over it for Denis. Valesquez is solid power, awesome wrestling and great top control. Watching some tape of Denis, he's really a very sloppy fighter. Drops his hands and throws punches like they're slaps. I hope he's worked on it. Denis has some wrestling but not what it take sto beat Cain IMO. Cain via MAC Truck (Gnp TKO)

*Pellegrino v Emerson*
Rob Emerson by 1st rd KO at 1 second. 

In all seriousness, they're both really class fighters. Emerson has come to his own recently and started throwing more than just leg kicks (like that fireball that hit manny in the mouth) and is becoming a fairly solid fighter. Kurt has some really solid BJJ so Rob is going to have to look out, but I think he can take this one by decision if he keeps it standing and outboxes Kurt.

*Luigi v Anthony Johnson*
Anthony Johnson is just too fast and too explosive for Luigi to have much of a chance. Johnson has looked like a knockout machine so far, but I'm only giving him a TKO.

*miller vs rosholt*
That's supposed to say Rosholt up there haha. Check Aaronyman's LOCKDOWN thread, I completely agree with him. Rosholt is the better wrestler. Give him the UD.

*Bruno vs Riddle*
So, I'm taking Riddle on this. Bruno didnt loko that good on tape. Slow striker and I think Riddle's speed will kill him.




So now, shut up about GSP greasing and BJ retiring and tell me what you think.:thumbsup:


----------



## Shamrock-Ortiz

Nice post 

I have Miller, Bruno (though close), Neer (though close), Catone, Lauzon (close) by decision.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

I agree with Emerson/Pellegrino. People still don't buy the Emerson hype even after the destruction of Manny. The same Manny that took Thiago Tavares to a decision. Therefore, Emerson is going to punish Pellegrino for 3 straight rounds, to make a statement.

Now that that's taken care of, I agree with about half of those. I hope Stephens knocks Lauzon out, I can't stand that prick.


----------



## Rated

I think Joe is going to win simply because he'll get Jeremy to the ground (eventually) and TKO/submit him. But the fight is pretty damn close to have a solid favorite.


----------



## Xerxes

Lauzon is taking this IMO. Stephens has a helluva KO power but he took it on short notice and I don't think he'll have the cardio to defend Lauzon's TDs for too long. Lauzon via sub in the 1st or 2nd round.

I also disagree on Pellegrino/Emerson but agree on your Danzig, Riddle and Tibau picks. 

Just for the record I bet a small wager on Denis because the odds were good. I doubt he's going to win but he's a ***** guy, his strong and I could see him TD'ing Cain and finish it there or pull a decision. Small chance but the odds are worth the risk IMO.


----------



## Aaronyman

Xerxes said:


> Lauzon is taking this IMO. Stephens has a helluva KO power but he took it on short notice and I don't think he'll have the cardio to defend Lauzon's TDs for too long. Lauzon via sub in the 1st or 2nd round.
> 
> I also disagree on Pellegrino/Emerson but agree on your Danzig, Riddle and Tibau picks.
> 
> Just for the record I bet a small wager on Denis because the odds were good. I doubt he's going to win but he's a ***** guy, his strong and I could see him TD'ing Cain and finish it there or pull a decision. Small chance but the odds are worth the risk IMO.


i also agree that the odds are worth it w/ denis....but i'm not touching it anyways....

at this point i've got 40 on tibau, 20 on rosholt, and 25 on riddle...

pretty happy w/ those


----------



## Shamrock-Ortiz

Xerxes said:


> Just for the record I bet a small wager on Denis because the odds were good. I doubt he's going to win but he's a ***** guy, his strong and I could see him TD'ing Cain and finish it there or pull a decision. Small chance but the odds are worth the risk IMO.


That's a very bold bet, kudos if it pulls off.

However, Denis taking down Cain just seems impossible for me to imagine. Cain's wrestling is the best in the division. I think you're going to have to hope for a flash knockout in this one.

Good luck anyway.


----------



## TraMaI

Didn't Jeremy take his last fight on short notice too Xerxes?


----------



## Fedor>all

Jeremy Stephens VS *Joe Lauzon *
*Josh Neer* VS Mac Danzig 
Denis Stojnic VS *Cain Velasquez *
*Anthony Johnson* VS Luigi Fioravanti 

Rob Emerson VS *Kurt Pellegrino* (sorry MMAForum)
*Nick Catone* VS Derek Downey
*Matt Grice* VS Matt Veach 
Rich Clementi VS *Gleison Tibau* 
*Jake Rosholt* VS Dan Miller 
*Matt Riddle* VS Steve Bruno 


I've picked the highlighted fighters to win.


----------



## Wise

Neer > Danzig
Pellegrino > Emerson
Tibau > Clementi
Valasquez > Stojnioc
Fiorvanti > Johnson
Bruno > Riddle
Miller > Rosholt
Lauzon > Stephens
Veach > Grice
Catone > Downey

Im feeling upset happy.


----------



## Xerxes

Aaronyman said:


> i also agree that the odds are worth it w/ denis....but i'm not touching it anyways....
> 
> at this point i've got 40 on tibau, 20 on rosholt, and 25 on riddle...
> 
> pretty happy w/ those


Roshold makes sense with these odds but TBH I wouldn't bet so much on him. Then it depends on your bankroll I guess. I usually bet from 5 to 40 dollars per fight and I'd put 10 on Rosholt if I had to. 

This fight could very well go to decision and should it be close, it could go either way on the scorecards. That's why I'm not touching it. I already got screwed with Franklin/Hendo and still not over it :laugh:



Shamrock-Ortiz said:


> That's a very bold bet, kudos if it pulls off.
> 
> However, Denis taking down Cain just seems impossible for me to imagine. Cain's wrestling is the best in the division. I think you're going to have to hope for a flash knockout in this one.
> 
> Good luck anyway.


Yeah it's bold but I've seen a couple of his fights and he's very aggressive and strong, sloppy but powerful strikes and his TDs are really good. I'm usually 1/2, 1/3 at predicting upsets. I predicted Dos Santos, Belcher (and Rashad) right and decided not to bet on Nog after seeing how he looked at the weigh ins. On the other side, I had Josh Hendricks, Yvel, Perez (and Wandy) wrong...

I'm cheering for Cain though so I'll be happy in both cases lol.



TraMaI said:


> Didn't Jeremy take his last fight on short notice too Xerxes?


TBH I can't remember but he was losing the fight until that crazy KO. Dos Anjos is not scrub on the ground but if he hangs on the ground so much against Lauzon, I think he'll get submitted or lose a decision.


----------



## The Legend

Shamrock-Ortiz said:


> That's a very bold bet, kudos if it pulls off.
> 
> However, Denis taking down Cain just seems impossible for me to imagine. Cain's wrestling is the best in the division. I think you're going to have to hope for a flash knockout in this one.
> 
> Good luck anyway.


Wait a second I thought Brock Lesnar had the best wrestling because of what he did earlier this decade:laughs:


----------



## plazzman

I'm still not sold on Rosholt. Plus, Miller is a serious dude.


----------



## TraMaI

*TraMaI's UFC100 Picks and Analysis*










Coleman/Bonnar: Stephan has some clean crisp boxing (golden gloves after all) and will enjoy a bit of reach on Coleman. Coleman showed us in his last fight that his chin isnt exactly the stablest on the planet. I don't think Stephan has a whole lot of one punch KO power, but he can and will throw punches in bunches and KO colemand. I say Mid first because he wont be messing around with him like Shogun was. Stephan is a hungry dude at this point and I think he'll go in for the kill.

Sexyama/Belcher: Dont get me wrong, Akiyama is a fantastic fighter, but Alan has done nothing but improve over his last fights. I'm really excited for this fight though, going to be fireworks I'm sure. Wouldnt surprise me at all if I'm wrong.

Hendo/Bisping: Bisping has some great hands, but Hendo has a chin of titanium. He's fought dudes with much more power than Bisping. Hendo also has a stellar clinch/wrestling game and I think he'll score takedown after takedown and win this with control. If Bisping couldnt finish Leben I don't see him finishing Hendo at all.

Fitch/Paulo: Fitch is my man, so I have to be rooting for him, but thats not the only reason I have him picked to win this. Also all of Paulo's wins have come by submission aside from his fight with Kos (who's chin isn't amazing) and another one where the guy dislocated his knee. Fitch cannot be subbed, it just doesnt happen. He gets submissions throw at him all the time and just bounces out of them, he's been put in really right chokes and somehow gets out of them, paulo isnt going to be able to submit the bigger, stronger Fitch. Also, Fitch has very traditional boxing but he also has an odd way of throwing punches that makes it hard for people to block. Paulo obviously has some power, but GSP couldnt finish Jon and I dont think Paulo will either. Plus Jon will enjoy at least a small reach/height advantage here.

GSP/Alves: Extremely tough fight to call and one that I've been looking forward to since before BJ/GSP. The main question here is "Can Thiago stop the GSP takedown." If the answer is yes, he WILL KO GSP. He's got really heavy hands and great MT. He's really accurate with his shots and he's got a solid chin. However it's going to be really hard for Thiago to get in close with GSP if he cant get past the range because he's at an EIGHT INCH REACH DISADVANTAGE. That's friggin HUGE. It's 3 more inches than he lost against Hughes and Kos. But I think Alves is big and strong enough to bully his way inside with leg kicks and body shots and to TKO/KO GSP. GSP was KO'd by Serra, and I think Thiago has a bit more power in his hands and feet.

MIR/LESNAR: This fight is also insanely hard to call. Brock ahs done nothing but get better, and Mir has done the same thing right along with him. We now know Mir has the power to KO someone (even if Nog was sick its still one hell of an accomplishment) and I dont think brock has the most spectacular stand up defense either. Brock throws huge bombs but his hands aren't crisp and smooth (thought Mir's arent that much better). One thing Mir does do better than Brock stnading is not telegraphing his strikes as much. Mir does telegraph quite a bit sometimes but Brock does ALL the time. Frank also beats him in the speed department I think (not by much) but all it takes from Brock is a good shot and Mir will go down. But here's why I think Mir wins: When you punch brock in the face with any sort of power his plan goes right back to wrestling. We saw this with Randy. He wanted to stand with randy most of the fight until he got hit a few good times, and Mir has more power than Randy IMO. Once the fight goes down it's going to get Chaotic and ugly, but I think Mir wins by some sort of sub, not necisarilly by a choke but I think an RNC is most likely.


TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK!:thumb02:


----------



## joshua7789

Agree with all cept belcher/akiyama and gsp/alves. I think akiyama subs belcher round one. He has faced better strikers then belcher in kang and manhoef and kang and beaten them, kang wont offer him anything he hasnt seen before. I think GSP will do what he always does and wear alves out until he takes a ground n pound stoppage in the fourth.


----------



## diablo5597

When will people realize that GSP will not lose another fight again for a long long time. GSP will win when and how he wants to.


----------



## DragonStriker

Yeah I think GSP is going to win and I still kinda think Brock Lesnar will win that guy is insane and if Mir gets caught he is done. Also, Sexyama all the way.


----------



## TraMaI

Like I said with the GSP thing, its IF alves can stop the takedown. I think he can stop it long enough to catch GSP


----------



## M.C

Thiago vs. Georges can go either way, so long as Thiago can defend the takedown long enough to put him down.

Will he? Probably not, but there is a chance. 

I see GSP taking it via decision or TKO(from top position) in the later rounds.


----------



## TraMaI

If GSP wins I see it being by decision. I think Thiago is strong enough to stop him early though. Lets hope not eh.


----------



## D.P.

joshua7789 said:


> Agree with all cept belcher/akiyama and gsp/alves. I think akiyama subs belcher round one. He has faced better strikers then belcher in kang and manhoef and kang and beaten them, kang wont offer him anything he hasnt seen before. I think GSP will do what he always does and wear alves out until he takes a ground n pound stoppage in the fourth.


This is pretty much what I was going to say.


----------



## The Dark Knight

What about your predictions for the CB Dollaway vs Tom Lawlor fight and Jon Jones vs Jake O'Brien?? I would be interested to read your predictions on those fights as there are enough UFC 100 predictions for the main card already.


----------



## The Horticulturist

*"I'm probably going to get hurt, if not die.. "- Forrest Griffin*

"I'm probably going to get hurt, if not die. This guy knows how to fight. The good news is, if I die, this book will sell a lot more copies and be worth more. "


Full Article:
http://www.fresnobee.com/sports/story/1500510.html

As always, sorry if this was posted.


----------



## K R Y

Read this earlier at ...

http://mmamania.com/2009/06/27/anderson-silva-might-kill-forrest-griffin-at-ufc-101/

Forrest cracks me up, I think he'll have a good shot if he stays on the outside and picks his shots wisely. If he goes in Forrest brawling for even a second he'll pay for it.


----------



## Darkwraith

This should be a very interesting fight. I really hope Forrest pulls this one off...But you are right, if he goes in for a brawl like usual, Silva will put it away quick.


----------



## name goes here

Hehehhe

I hope he can defend on the ground better than v Rashad.
Leg kicks, leg kicks, leg kicks


----------



## Finnsidious

Much as I love the guy, he has basically no shot. What area of MMA does he have an advantage in? Zip. He's big, and he's game, but he's got no chance, provided Silva takes the fight seriously. Considering that Silva has taken so much flack for his last couple fights, I think he knows he has to come out and crush someone now, and Forrest is in the way.

I'll be rooting for you Forrest, but I'm sorry to say I won't be betting on you.


----------



## MADDSNIPER

name goes here said:


> Hehehhe
> 
> I hope he can defend on the ground better than v Rashad.
> Leg kicks, leg kicks, leg kicks


his hand was broken, thats why he couldnt get wrist control on rashad and ended up getting TKOed


----------



## Toxic

Forrest didnt get into a brawl with Rampage and in 5 rounds didnt get knocked out, honestly I think Forrest has a very good chance of winning this and is one of the toughtest match ups at LHW they could have given Silva as Forrest's size will be a very important aspect of this fight, Anderson is a huge MW and isnt small by LHW standards but Forrest is a big 205 and lanky so that is important.


----------



## Freelancer

I'm just happy Silva is finally fighting someone bigger than him.


----------



## The Horticulturist

If Forrest wins, he is Rocky.


----------



## SpoKen

I think if Forrest can avoid getting KO'd by Rampage, He COULD avoid getting KO'd by Silva. Forrest has a pretty good chin and Anderson never really knocks people out out. If he works from the outside and fights smart, he could pull off the upset with a boring victory. He won't brawl with Andy, so unless Andy gets aggresive, I see Forrest winning a boring stand up fight for the UD.


----------



## Drogo

Finnsidious said:


> Much as I love the guy, he has basically no shot. What area of MMA does he have an advantage in? Zip. He's big, and he's game, but he's got no chance, provided Silva takes the fight seriously. Considering that Silva has taken so much flack for his last couple fights, I think he knows he has to come out and crush someone now, and Forrest is in the way.
> 
> I'll be rooting for you Forrest, but I'm sorry to say I won't be betting on you.


I wouldn't say no shot. Forrest loves to be self deprecating but the guy has decent stand up and a solid ground game. He is only better at Silva in one area - size and strength, but that does matter. He also isn't SO much worse at stand up and the ground that I would call Silva a lock here. I make Silva a favourite here but this isn't going to be a James Irvin type mauling. Forrest will make a fight out of this and a win from him wouldn't be that much of an upset to me.


----------



## 6toes

I don't give Forrest much chance in this fight but the dude's funny. Here's to hoping for a good fight.


----------



## Darkwraith

I think some of you guys are underestimating Forrest. This is the one time I am betting my credits against Silva. Never have before, but I am looking for the upset. :thumbsup:


----------



## box

This is probably one of the fights im most looking forward to. Forest is gonna make him fight, and its up in the air where the fight will go.


----------



## swpthleg

I have to root for the underdog.

LMAO at "sold into sex slavery."


----------



## No_Mercy

Spoken812 said:


> I think if Forrest can avoid getting KO'd by Rampage, He COULD avoid getting KO'd by Silva. Forrest has a pretty good chin and Anderson never really knocks people out out. If he works from the outside and fights smart, he could pull off the upset with a boring victory. He won't brawl with Andy, so unless Andy gets aggresive, I see Forrest winning a boring stand up fight for the UD.


Had a good chuckle reading this article. 

Good point, but he also never checked his leg kicks which proved to be fatal down the later rounds hurting his mobility and torque in his power shots. Rashad caught the leg and took him out. We've all seen The Spider vs The Sandman. I think Forest may try to take him down and GNP him. 

I really wonder what kind of a plan Griffen has in store. I hope he says F*** it and just goes buck wild. It would make for potential FON or KO of the night. Either way we'll be entertained!


----------



## swpthleg

Going buckwild is an excellent idea for Forrest, if it helps him channel his unbelievable amount of heart.


----------



## joshua7789

I wouldnt go putting my money on Forrest, but i wouldnt bet against him either. I thought that shogun was gonna hand him his ass in about thirty seconds, didnt happen like that at all. I thought Rampage was going to do the same. Forrest is like Randy Couture in that even if he isnt the favorite, its still not a good idea to bet against him. This should be a great fight and i see Forrest being able to push Silva around the cage and hold him down and pound on him. If distance is maintained for any period of time by Silva, then this could be a short night for Forrest. Cant wait for this!!


----------



## The Dark Knight

I want Forrest to win this one. I'm getting a bit pissed off with Anderson Silva. I mean, I don't really blame him for the Thales Leites fight, but I, meh, I dunno. I've kinda grown to dislike him. He has been getting a bit too big for his boots. Plus I don't really like his association with Lyoto Machida. They both appear sly in their arrogance. I dunno, maybe it's just me. 

Anyways, Forrest Griffin is a wicked competitor and for once, it won't be an easy task for Anderson Silva. Griffin h as a great chin AND is well rounded. Obviously Silva has the edge in the striking, but Forrest usually has good game plans. I don't know how he will beat Silva but I really want him to pick up the win here.


----------



## michelangelo

Forrest wouldn't be stepping into the octagon if he thought he had no shot. He's simply putting himself into the mindset of being the ultimate underdog. This role served him well when squaring off against both Shogun and Rampage. No one gave Forrest a chance against Rampage and he wound up picking him apart kick by kick, strike by strike. 

Forrest will keep his distance and try to pick apart Silva with jabs and leg kicks for a very narrow decision victory. He's not silly enough to go in all guns blazing; he's too savvy of an Octagon veteran at this point.


----------



## name goes here

I actually think Forest will win. A.Sil in his last two fights was just dancing and jabbing. Forest has the reach, and doesn't get scared much. If the same Sila turns up as his last two fights, all Forest has to do is jab a lot, and he is good at that.


----------



## Davisty69

Good read... Probably my favorite fighter to watch in an interview. 

He has a shot. If you don't think he does, ask Rampage. This is definitely a don't miss.


----------



## rabakill

If he can avoid the clinch, I see him winning this one. If the odds are against forrest on this one, I might bet on him.


----------



## AlaRave

I'm picking Forrest for the fight. He can take a punch and certainly give one back.


----------



## Danm2501

Forrest is quickly turning into my favourite fighter. His video interview the other day was hilarious, and this is another brilliant quote from him. He's very funny. May have to invest in his book.


----------



## CornbreadBB

I is the only one getting tired of this (what I think) is fake modesty? I may be wrong, but this is starting to piss me off. He won't win, but he definitely will give Andy a bit of a hard time.


----------



## The_Senator

Anderson Silva is far superior than 76's version of Shogun and 86's version of Rampage. The first one had some serious knee problems which worsened his performance drastically (which was enough to make Forrest's face look like a mess), the second one was too stubborn and overconfident, he probably expected to beat Forrest with ease, so he kept standing right in front of Griffin all 25 minutes and did nothing in order to avoid vicious leg kicks constantly coming from Forrest, so basically he had no respect coming into the fight (but still was able to knock Forrest down and do some damage).
Anderson Silva won't have problems with his stamina, he won't be standing in front of Forrest all the time eating his leg kicks and he certainly will hit Forrest because all the others could. If you compare their matches, you'll see that Anderson always looks pretty undamaged in the end whereas Forrest doesn't.


----------



## M.C

Forrest can win it standing if he uses that reach and size, but I see Anderson closing the gap if he starts losing, and going for the finish. So, if I can see this, I know Forrest can see it. I think Forrest will take this fight to the ground the first chance he gets, and use his size and underrated ground game to control Silva from the top. I think he can frustrate Silva, I think he can keep top position on the ground for a lot of the fight, and when it does stand, I can see him using his length and size to at least avoid some damage and land a few shots of his own.

I see this fight being slow at the start until the first takedown, from there, Silva will start to push a bit more of a pace, which will result in him coming forward and possibly being taken down again.

For some strange reason, I don't see Anderson finsihing Forrest, yet I see Forrest being able to take the fight to the ground if that is in his plan, as well as do some decent damage standing.

I have Forrest via decision.


----------



## swpthleg

CornbreadBB said:


> I is the only one getting tired of this (what I think) is fake modesty? I may be wrong, but this is starting to piss me off. He won't win, but he definitely will give Andy a bit of a hard time.


That's all I want, really, is to see Anderson have to work to get through Forrest. I'll still be rooting for Forrest, because I have fallen for his goofy charm like a f*cking idiot, but if he loses after a proper war, I won't cry for too long.


----------



## dudeabides

Real modesty and he's fighting the guy at the top of the 'official' pound for pound lists, so it's not that hard to believe he's being funny about his modesty.


----------



## crispsteez

The Dark Knight said:


> I want Forrest to win this one. I'm getting a bit pissed off with Anderson Silva. I mean, I don't really blame him for the Thales Leites fight, but I, meh, I dunno. I've kinda grown to dislike him. He has been getting a bit too big for his boots. Plus I don't really like his association with Lyoto Machida. They both appear sly in their arrogance. I dunno, maybe it's just me.


I sense the arrogance from Silva, but Machida, not so much. 



CornbreadBB said:


> I is the only one getting tired of this (what I think) is fake modesty? I may be wrong, but this is starting to piss me off. He won't win, but he definitely will give Andy a bit of a hard time.


His modesty may be a bit exaggerated, but I wouldn't go as far to say its completely fake. He strikes me as a humble guy who just plays himself down, probably, to get his head where it needs to be come fight time. People are different. Not everyone needs to come out saying 'i'm gonna go in there to kill you" or "i'm gonna fight to the death' to pump them self up for a fight.


----------



## Darkwraith

All I have left to say is WAR FORREST! :thumbsup:


----------



## phizeke

I hope Forrest takes this one......as long as he comes into the fight fighting smart like what he did against Rampage and Shogun....we might see Forrest pull another upset....cause I know that hes coming in there as a underdog...


----------



## name goes here

Yeah the false modesty thing is tedious.


----------



## Liddellianenko

Forrest is really starting to grow on me with his last few fights and hilarious interviews. I've always thought he was kind of an overrated brawler that got the easy path up because of TUF. But his win over Rampage really had me thinking, even more so than the Shogun fight (who I thought was just out of form). I still don't think he's got much of a chance against guys like Anderson and Machida, but like many others, I wouldn't bet against him anymore. Definitely starting to look forward to this one.


----------



## looney liam

forrest can definately beat silva. he ain't going to do it with leg kicks though. silva is a completely different striker to rampage, you kick him and he'll block it or counter. i mean look what happened to irvin, he tried a kick and got KO'd for his troubles. he'll have to pick his strikes carefully and take the fight down if and when he can.

now silva's last couple of performances have been less than stellar. you could say he was toying with them, or playing it safe to make it in the record books. either way he's going to have to go back to his ruthless ways to beat forrest. i can see this fight going one of 2 ways, a decision for griffin or a tko stoppage for silva.


----------



## Evil Ira

Haha, Forrest is a really funny, modest guy. I don't think it's fake, he's going up against Anderson Silva! Anyways, all the best to Forrest, I hope he makes my formerly favourite fighter (Spider) stop underestimating people, and calling out Fedor etc, and become shocked by Forrest's actual skills in the octagon.


----------



## The Horticulturist

*Big Nog's thought's on Randy, Mir fight, etc.*

source:
http://www.mmanews.com/ufc/Nogueira:-I-Want-To-Return-To-My-Best-And-Take-Title-Back.html

*“Facing a top guy like Randy is just like facing Fedor, Cro Cop. Definitely he is a legend of our sport, and we will make a great fight. I will fight in the same weight that I fought in Pride. I will lose about 10 pounds. Lighter, I can move faster, have more gas and can work my game better, have quicker jiu-jitsu … In this fight against Mir, I had a serious staphylococcus infection on my elbow 10 days before the fight and stayed almost five days in the hospital taking antibiotics. Definitely I was not in good condition, but I don’t want to take anything from Mir … I lost the UFC belt being far from my best, and now I want to return in my best shape and get this title back. Brazil already has two UFC belts, and I want to recover Brazilian dominance in MMA by bringing the third belt to Brazil.”
*

Sorry if this was posted before. I knew he was looking bad from staph in the Mir fight, but I actually didn't know he was in the hospital for 5 days taking antibiotics. What a tough guy, I hope he fairs well against an awesome Couture.


----------



## King Koopa

i think mir would have won the fight even if he didnt have staph.

i think nog will take randy though.was he saying fighting randy now is like fighting fedor, or randy when he was younger?


----------



## Uchaaa

I hope nog gets lesnar after the win. I just want to see nog vs lesnar, I like nog vs monster matchups.


----------



## Diokhan

I don't see a way Nog can beat Randy. Randy is too experienced and talented wrestler to get subbed/sweeped from guard if he even ends up there. When it comes to stand up Nog has always been a technical boxer who uses the boxing to set up the takedowns or just to score some points, he has maybe 3 (T)KO wins total while Randy actually drops people (like Sylvia) with his punches. 

I have a feeling this fight will look alot like Randy vs. Gonzaga fight with Randy controlling Nog at fence with his wrestling & dirty boxing. If fight goes to ground it will go there because Randy wants it to, and if Randy wants it to go there it'll be to finish bloodied up Nog off. *Randy by TKO in 2nd*, still <3 Nog though but Randy has him beat on this match up!


----------



## Villian

If they both come in @ 100% Nog takes this fight.


----------



## illmatic

War NOG.

I got a 4+ hour BJJ seminar with him this weekend. Looking forward to that!


----------



## AceofSpades187

cant wait for this fight Go Nog


----------



## BazDaManUk

once your punch resistance and recovery goes you cant get it back. mir wasn't even swinging and was putting nog down, it was really sad to see


----------



## Damone

illmatic said:


> War NOG.
> 
> I got a 4+ hour BJJ seminar with him this weekend. Looking forward to that!


You are one lucky dude.

Nogueira is the man. A true legend in the sport, which is odd, considering that he's still young. A class act, who would rather die than quit. I love that man.


----------



## steveo412

If Nog shows up 100% he takes this fight, if he shows up like he did in the Mir fight I dont think he will win. Either way it should be a good fight.


----------



## LCRaiders

Nogueira is a world class fighter. I hope he beats Randy and continues to fight..

Nogueira the legend never dies!


----------



## iSHACKABUKU

> Nogueira is a world class fighter. I hope he beats Randy and continues to fight..
> 
> Nogueira the legend never dies!


WARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## No_Mercy

Nog does seem like he's really a battle worn fighter in his movement. Looks like he has arthritis. Anyways if it was the old Nog in Pride he would have taken out Mir easily. He kept getting clocked with the same uppercut. His movement was really bogged down. It'll be two veterans going at it. Jiu jitsu usually overtakes wrestlers. I think he'll win by armbar against Randy or it can be a war of attrition going all three rounds.


----------



## M.C

It'll be interesting to see which Nog shows up in this fight. Nog hasn't really looked too good since he came to the UFC. The Herring fight was ok, he almost got finished but for the rest of the fight he did really well, He was losing the Sylvia fight up until the sub, and he got destroyed by Mir, which he and everyone else claims that he had an injury going into the fight.

I really, REALLY hope Nog shows up and proves he is still fully game, as I'd hate to see another great fighter start his trail down.

On a side note, if they were both fully ready 100%, I have Randy in this fight, as I see him having good enough sub defense to avoid submissions and good enough top control to win a decision.


----------



## Davisty69

They are both two of my favorite fighters, though Randy is admittedly my #1, so this fight saddens me in a way  

I have $20 riding on Randy with a friend of mine. I can't wait.


----------



## TraMaI

*Brock Lesnar: Give/Take [Spoilers]*

Okay so I've been ragging on Lesnar since he came into the UFC and saying that he isn't going to do anything/he's fake/etc. Now given that i was more than willing to say that I'd respect him if he beat Mir without just being a behemoth, which he did. Lesnar came out with a solid gameplan (don't let Mir move) and executed it very well. He really started to show some evolution for the fight and I gained a whole lot of respect for him. 

Then the post fight happens.

He seriously got in Mir's face and everything and then did nothing but talk crap during his interview and act like a 10 year old bully who just won a school yard fight. The dude is a solid douchebag. I was so pissed off because most of the time the prefight hype is just that, hype. But Lesnar had no respect for anyone or the sport after that shit. Anyone else feel the same way?


----------



## Fozzy Fiend

He shoulda kept his cool after the fight, but I would have done the same thing. Look how much crap Mir talked the past how many months. Lesnar was just putting him in his place and getting the last laugh. It is a WWE thing to do, but I was fine with it.


----------



## GMK13

see if mir would have won and then got in lesnars face everyone would be lauging about it like henderson knocking the lights out of bisping.


----------



## vaj3000

lesnar is a repulsive human being....ive been watching mma and the UFC from the early days and have to say ive never hated a fighter untill now. I wasnt fond of ppl like tito etc but i never hated them this guy is on a different level.


----------



## AceCombat

But when people hate a fighter this much, it's money. I found Lesnar's lack of respect and boyish behavior surprisingly refreshing.


----------



## TraMaI

Fozzy Fiend said:


> He shoulda kept his cool after the fight, but I would have done the same thing. Look how much crap Mir talked the past how many months. Lesnar was just putting him in his place and getting the last laugh. It is a WWE thing to do, but I was fine with it.


I dont think Mir would've been like that though. Mir is pretty respectful most of the time and I'm pretty sure it was prefight hype. Brock's brain just must not be able to grasp that concept yet.


----------



## hellholming

AceCombat said:


> But when people hate a fighter this much, it's money.



exactly. Now people will be buying PPVs in hopes to see him get beat up. It's the same strategy as in WWE having a heel (a "bad guy") as the title holder.


----------



## 420atalon

TraMaI said:


> I dont think Mir would've been like that though. Mir is pretty respectful most of the time and I'm pretty sure it was prefight hype. Brock's brain just must not be able to grasp that concept yet.


Mir would have been respectful in the ring but I almost guarantee that he would take shots at Lesnar later like he has done since their first fight. 

With Lesnar, I bet we will hear very little trash talk towards Mir if any. It is just the way he is, he didn't get into all the crap talk like Mir did and he went in there and shut him up.


----------



## TraMaI

420atalon said:


> Mir would have been respectful in the ring but I almost guarantee that he would take shots at Lesnar later like he has done since their first fight.
> 
> With Lesnar, I bet we will hear very little trash talk towards Mir if any. It is just the way he is, he didn't get into all the crap talk like Mir did and he went in there and shut him up.


as of right now I'm highly doubting that. I'm really seeing a lot of comments from Lesnar on how he "absolutely destroyed Frank Mir" etc.

But also guys, this isn't just about his disrespect for Mir, it's about his disrespect to the entire sport.


----------



## GMK13

i dont think there will be anymore trash talk between those two, brock has apologized. Brock admitted dana "whipped the dog" so you probably wont see brock yelling at some one after he beat them again.


----------



## Fozzy Fiend

I guess we will never know how Mir would have acted if he won. Although Im pretty sure he wouldnt have went up to Lesnar and rubbed it in like that, but I dont think he would have been buddy buddy. Mir did offer to pound fists when Herb said to, and Lesnar did nothing besides go back to his corner.

Lesnar did apologize at the post fight conference. Dana chewed him out for the Bud Light comments. I wonder how much Bud pays for their logo in the middle of the Octagon?





> "First and foremost I want to apologize," Lesnar said. "I acted very unprofessionally after the fight. I'm a sore loser and I don't like to get beat. I believe that Frank and I's first fight, I gave that fight to him. So there was a lot of emotion in that fight for me. I love this company. I wanna be a fighter. I've wanted to be a fighter since I was a little kid okay - you guys want to get to know me a little bit right now - I've been a fighter my whole life. Wrestling was my way out. I wasn't the smartest kid on the block. I didn't like school. I like to get in one-on-one with my opponent and that's where I handled my business. I went in the entertainment business for a while and I guess... people ask all the time if there's anything I can drag over from the WWE, and I guess you saw a little bit of that tonight."
> 
> Lesnar's disrespect toward Bud Light, one of the UFC's biggest sponsors, was surprising considering the sponsor pays a hefty fee to slap its logo all over the octagon. These fees allow the UFC to pay big time purses to fighters of Lesnar's caliber, a point likely made clear to Lesnar when UFC President Dana White went backstage to administer a "whip-the-dog session".
> 
> "I apologize to Bud Light," Lesnar said. "I'm not biased; I drink any beer, but tonight I'm drinking Bud Light all night. So, you know, man I was so jacked up. I'm used to selling PPV tickets. I come from a business that is purely entertainment... Dana (White) came back and we had a whip-the-dog session and I screwed up and I apologize.
> 
> Lesnar also elaborated on the disrespect he levied at the clearly defeated Mir after the fight had already ended.
> 
> "I have nothing against Frank (Mir)," Lesnar said. "The only thing I had against Frank was that he beat me. We both talked a lot of crap and in the end I was just jacked up."


http://www.fiveknuckles.com/mma-new...Bud-Light-White-promises-Lesnar-vs-Fedor.html


----------



## nvr8nf

I agree lack of respect for the whole sport. Remember when he pointed and laughed at Herring after beating him? WTF?

I think it's great when fighters are professional and show respect, win or lose.


----------



## Finnsidious

Fozzy Fiend said:


> I guess we will never know how Mir would have acted if he won. Although Im pretty sure he wouldnt have went up to Lesnar and rubbed it in like that, but I dont think he would have been buddy buddy. Mir did offer to pound fists when Herb said to, and Lesnar did nothing besides go back to his corner.
> 
> Lesnar did apologize at the post fight conference. Dana chewed him out for the Bud Light comments. I wonder how much Bud pays for their logo in the middle of the Octagon?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.fiveknuckles.com/mma-new...Bud-Light-White-promises-Lesnar-vs-Fedor.html


 I didn't think I had any respect for Lesnar left to lose, but he always finds a way.

I actually have less respect for him after the apology than before. He bashes Mir and the UFC sponsers!!! and then doesn't even have the guts to stand up for himself when Dana tears a strip off him. I'd have liked him better if he just said, yeah I don't like Mir or Bud Light, so what?

Basically, Lesnar came right out and said, 'Yes, I am a hypocrite. You can never believe or trust anything I ever say or do. I will act soley for my material gain, with no regard for any personal, ethical or spiritual standard.'

You're a class act Brock.


----------



## TraMaI

HOly agreeance batman!

That and the fact that I have a feeling brock never wouldve apologized had Dana not laid into him.


----------



## Joessups

he's definately not what we would call the "people's" champ


----------



## hellholming

Joessups said:


> he's definately not what we would call the "people's" champ


there's only one People's Champ:










:thumb02:


haha... sorry for that. I used to be a wrestling geek.


----------



## hvendlor

I actually like Brock. Watch his interview with ESPN afterwards. He seemed genuinely sorry for his antics after the fight.....

Also bare in mind he had the whole arena against him which could make his act like more of a tool.


----------



## jamlena

vaj3000 said:


> lesnar is a repulsive human being....ive been watching mma and the UFC from the early days and have to say ive never hated a fighter untill now. I wasnt fond of ppl like tito etc but i never hated them this guy is on a different level.


C'mon, man where were you when Tank Abbott was acting like an ass and Tito acting like a f'n jerk and there are a few other azz-wipes if you really start to look back, please there has always been jerks in this sport as like in other sports, Brock is being piled on because he did the WWE first and made a boat load of money. Shamrock left to go work for ther WWE and returned but yet no one ever talks this kind of crap about Shamrock, speaking of which (and I like Ken) he's another jerk that many times displayed no respect or class for other fighters.


----------



## hvendlor

It's worth pointing out that Brock didn't act like a prick when he beat Randy. But then Randy didn't talk any trash, Mir sure did. He basically said Brock punches like a little girl and Brock doesn't take kinda to that.


----------



## vaj3000

hellholming said:


> there's only one People's Champ:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :thumb02:
> 
> 
> haha... sorry for that. I used to be a wrestling geek.


Lol im reppin u for that. The great one would whip lesnars stuypid ass


----------



## vaj3000

jamlena said:


> C'mon, man where were you when Tank Abbott was acting like an ass and Tito acting like a f'n jerk and there are a few other azz-wipes if you really start to look back, please there has always been jerks in this sport as like in other sports, Brock is being piled on because he did the WWE first and made a boat load of money. Shamrock left to go work for ther WWE and returned but yet no one ever talks this kind of crap about Shamrock, speaking of which (and I like Ken) he's another jerk that many times displayed no respect or class for other fighters.


Comeone dude lesnars taken it to a new low. I know its sad but i like to think that these fighters live by a warriors code (yeah im sad i know).

PS

Does lesnar remind anyone of lang from rocky 3 or the eveil dude from highlander one?


----------



## Fozzy Fiend

I used to be a wrestling fan too, so I can totally understand where Brock is coming from when he says that he is used to selling ppv's and hyping it up. There being a bad guy and a good guy. Ive read interviews with guys who say its in your blood once youve done it, so maybe theres just a part of Brock that likes hearing boos?

I cant wait to see what the buyrate was though!


----------



## elessarcif

Isnt this sport all about finding the greatest fighter in the world? I would say Brock would disrespect the sport if he was not working hard to get better. How did he disrespect the sport? I would say he disrespected some fans but those fans just did it to him so there is a bit of give and take there. He did disrespect the business side of things with the bud light comment but that isnt disrespecting the sport.

Early days of the sport had brawlers all over the place. Anyone remember Tank Abbott? He is much more skilled than that guy and that is the only reason he wins. True Brawlers dont win this sport anymore.


----------



## TraMaI

*UFC Fan Expo Grappling Videos*

http://mmamania.com/2009/07/15/ufc-fan-expo-super-fights-videos-from-grapplers-quest-2009/

Pretty sweet to see these


----------



## TraMaI

*BJ Looking to beat KenFlo via Frog Jump!*

http://mmamania.com/2009/07/17/ribb...world-to-jump-three-feet-out-of-a-pool-video/






Pretty impressive?


----------



## DragonStriker

Wow that is very impressive, didnt even think that was possible.


----------



## MagiK11

To be honest that is pretty impressive and he looks really lean and in great shape. When BJ fights at 155 he's always in excellent shape and to be perfectly honest, I think Florian is in really "deep water" so to speak already lol.


----------



## The Horticulturist

That was awesome. I'm going to go try that right now.


----------



## TraMaI

SuicideJohnson said:


> That was awesome. I'm going to go try that right now.


Dude dont fall and jack your face on the concrete :3


----------



## osmium

You really should be able to do that if you are a top level athlete I have seen several videos of college athletes doing that and I'd bet the majority of non power forwards and centers in the NBA could because I'd consider that to be the most overall athletically gifted league. But yeah I have been saying for months Kenny is going to be destroyed this doesn't alter that as stated earlier in the thread BJ is forced to be in great shape to make the cut so there was never any chance of him showing up fat as hell like a lot of people here were hoping. BJ via beheading.


----------



## TraMaI

Kenny via Elbows from the top. I think Half Guard 

Late third early 4th.


----------



## shatterproof

BJ has really pissed me off as a fan these past few years... but that was legitimately awesome.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

TraMaI said:


> Kenny via Elbows from the top. I think Half Guard
> 
> Late third early 4th.


You mean cut, the elbow doesn't stop the fight.


----------



## GMK13

thats impressing. he will dominate ken flo.


----------



## khoveraki

I dunno, this just looks to me like another gimmicky thing BJ does for "practice." Sort of like the running under water holding a rock thing.

I hope BJ and Florian get their asses kicked during this fight.


----------



## dudeabides

Some call it luck!


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

If there were to be a double KO in this, I'd consider it the best UFC moment in history.


----------



## Fieos

Regardless of my opinion of BJ Penn, that was very impressive.


----------



## The Lone Wolf

Alex_DeLarge said:


> You mean cut, the elbow doesn't stop the fight.


The ref could call the fight from elbow strikes, without a cut :thumb02:

That wont happen though, BJ will destroy Ben Stiller. . . I mean Kenny Florian. . . or is it Ben Stiller?! :confused02:


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

The Lone Wolf said:


> The ref could call the fight from elbow strikes, without a cut :thumb02:
> 
> That wont happen though, BJ will destroy Ben Stiller. . . I mean Kenny Florian. . . or is it Ben Stiller?! :confused02:


Right, except one thing. Kenny doesn't throw elbows to do actual damage. He throws elbows to create cuts.


----------



## The Lone Wolf

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Right, except one thing. Kenny doesn't throw elbows to do actual damage. He throws elbows to create cuts.


And if he throws enough of them when BJ is in a bad spot, the fight could get called


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

But he won't, because he won't throw elbows when BJ is in a bad spot. He only throws elbows when he has the proper angle and position to open a cut. If BJ is already in a bad spot, he'll just reign punches. If BJ is on top of Florian, controlling the fight and outgrappling Florian, then he'll throw his elbow.

Haha, Florian throwing elbows if BJ is a bad position and not to open up cuts. That's a good one. I'll never question your sense of humor that's for sure.


----------



## Brydon

This video is quite deceptive. BJ is crouching when he is in the water, making the jump appear a lot more difficult than it actually is. Even taking this into consideration, the drag created by the water would be difficult to overcome.


----------



## The Lone Wolf

Alex_DeLarge said:


> But he won't, because he won't throw elbows when BJ is in a bad spot. He only throws elbows when he has the proper angle and position to open a cut. If BJ is already in a bad spot, he'll just reign punches. If BJ is on top of Florian, controlling the fight and outgrappling Florian, then he'll throw his elbow.
> 
> Haha, Florian throwing elbows if BJ is a bad position and not to open up cuts. That's a good one. I'll never question your sense of humor that's for sure.


Just because he's throwing them to open cuts, doesnt mean he WILL cut him. . .

Next you'll be telling me Matt Hughes wont KO anyone from a slam because he only slams people to take them down. . .


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

Matt Hughes won't KO anyone.


----------



## The Lone Wolf

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Matt Hughes won't KO anyone.


Haha, are you kidding me?


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

Hmm, he's done it twice in his career out of 50 fights. One to a guy named Scott Johnson and the other against Carlos Newton.

I think the odds are...hmm, no, he won't KO anyone, especially today.


----------



## The Lone Wolf

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Hmm, he's done it twice in his career out of 50 fights. One to a guy named Scott Johnson and the other against Carlos Newton.
> 
> I think the odds are...hmm, no, he won't KO anyone, especially today.


And he KO'd Carlos Newton with a "slam". Even though he was out, its still technically a slam.

If Hughes can KO someone with a slam, Florian can stop someone with elbow strikes. End Game

FYI


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

But, you see, Florian won't end the fight with elbow strikes. Because if Florian is going to use elbow strikes, it's going to be to open up a cut Mr. Broken Record.


----------



## The Lone Wolf

Alex_DeLarge said:


> But, you see, Florian won't end the fight with elbow strikes. Because if Florian is going to use elbow strikes, it's going to be to open up a cut Mr. Broken Record.


When youre done with your crystal ball, may i have a turn?



Alex_DeLarge said:


> You mean cut, the elbow doesn't stop the fight.


yes it does. many a fight has been stopped by an elbow. notably Anderson Silva's backwards uppercut elbow.

Edit: next time you want to be pedantic with someone, try and ensure you think about it first. it saves digging yourself out of a hole


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

And if you could figure out things for yourself and not need me to explain things to you more in depth, when I said "the elbow doesn't stop the fight" I was refering strictly to Kenny Florian...since, lawl, this is who this thread is about and one other fighter. 

Oh noez, will you help me out of my hole? Not before you SPARE YOURSELF THO!!11 Lololll.


----------



## The Lone Wolf

Alex_DeLarge said:


> And if you could figure out things for yourself and not need me to explain things to you more in depth, *when I said "the elbow doesn't stop the fight" I was refering strictly to Kenny Florian*...since, lawl, this is who this thread is about and one other fighter.
> 
> Oh noez, will you help me out of my hole? Not before you SPARE YOURSELF THO!!11 Lololll.


refer to previous post re: crystal ball :thumb02:

anyway i've made my point and hijacked this thread enough.

frog jumps. awesome


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

*YAWNZEZ* still not picking up the exaggerating sarcasm?

And if my crystal ball you mean a, gasp, prediction, fair enough.


----------



## The Lone Wolf

Alex_DeLarge said:


> *YAWNZEZ* still not picking up the exaggerating sarcasm?
> 
> And if my crystal ball you mean a, gasp, prediction, fair enough.


Holy jockstraps batman! are you deliberately being ignorant?

I dont frankly care about your prediction, its your correction of someone elses prediction that i'm labouring on about. . . 




TraMaI said:


> Kenny via Elbows from the top. I think Half Guard
> 
> Late third early 4th.





Alex_DeLarge said:


> You mean cut, the elbow doesn't stop the fight.


Hence the crystal ball reference.

Now if thats not clear enough, i dont quite know what else to do except sigh.

Now i'm REALLY not posting off topic here anymore.


----------



## leifdawg

osmium said:


> You really should be able to do that if you are a top level athlete


I don't consider most MMA fighters to be top athletes. Well conditioned? Yes. Dedicated, hard workers? Yes. Highly skilled. Yes.


Just think of it this way if you put say Kenny Florian into a series of athletic competitions with your average NBA player who do you think would win?


----------



## TERMINATOR

Damn looks easy but is probably harder than shitola


----------



## khoveraki

leifdawg said:


> I don't consider most MMA fighters to be top athletes. Well conditioned? Yes. Dedicated, hard workers? Yes. Highly skilled. Yes.
> 
> 
> Just think of it this way if you put say Kenny Florian into a series of athletic competitions with your average NBA player who do you think would win?


Uh, I dunno what you're talking about man. I can play hard competite basketball for a lot longer than I can spar or roll. 

And as far as strength, MMA athletes have a way higher need for it than NBA, NFL etc athletes.

I think it's pretty safe to say it's one of the more demanding sports. Soccer is maybe more demanding cardio wise, if you're a center or something. 

Keep in mind there's quite a few Olympian-level Athletes in MMA


I guess we can just wait and ask Shaq?


----------



## TraMaI

leifdawg said:


> I don't consider most MMA fighters to be top athletes. Well conditioned? Yes. Dedicated, hard workers? Yes. Highly skilled. Yes.
> 
> 
> Just think of it this way if you put say Kenny Florian into a series of athletic competitions with your average NBA player who do you think would win?


Define athletic, because if we're talking about sprinting/running/lifting etc then they'd be right up there. If you're talking playing basketball/football then probably not, but you have to think the basketball players would get handled in a match against any MMA fighter in the UFC.


----------



## M.C

That's awesome.


----------



## Toxic

That is damn impressive, I wouldnt have though BJ would be explosive enough to do that. Damn Kenny run while you got the chance, BJ is in shape, motivated and pissed, your a dead man.


----------



## leifdawg

khoveraki said:


> Uh, I dunno what you're talking about man. I can play hard competite basketball for a lot longer than I can spar or roll.
> 
> And as far as strength, MMA athletes have a way higher need for it than NBA, NFL etc athletes.
> 
> I think it's pretty safe to say it's one of the more demanding sports. Soccer is maybe more demanding cardio wise, if you're a center or something.
> 
> Keep in mind there's quite a few Olympian-level Athletes in MMA
> 
> 
> I guess we can just wait and ask Shaq?





TraMaI said:


> Define athletic, because if we're talking about sprinting/running/lifting etc then they'd be right up there. If you're talking playing basketball/football then probably not, but you have to think the basketball players would get handled in a match against any MMA fighter in the UFC.



I'm speaking of measureable god given talents. 40 times, vertical leap, etc.

Why do you think guys like GSP and Brock stand out so much, because they are true world-class athletes. Right now the majority of the best athletes go to other sports.

Also most if not all of the Olympians in the UFC are past their prime. And past Olympians aren't the norm anyway.

Who do you think would win a decathalon between Anderson Silva and Kobe Bryant?


----------



## The Horticulturist

Leifdawg is right. Whether the non-mma athletes have as many skills that are applicable in the real world however, is a different story. That is the reason I admire MMA more than any other sport, the usefulness of the skills learned. I've gotten to the point where I can't even enjoy pro-sports like I did before just because I feel it isn't nearly as important to be good at. 
The next 5 years are going to be wild, I'd bet a ton of young guys will make the crossover from team sports to MMA, and we will have nothing but GSP's and Jon Jones'. There will definitely be a high genetic standard that you'll need, if you want to be in the UFC


----------



## Toxic

Athletes in MMA are just as athletic but the competitions proximity to the sport they train in will always dictate who wins, I mean A basketball player will have a higher vertical leap then a MMA fighter but also more than a NFL player. I would bet a million though that your average MMA fighter will out bench press a NBA player of comparable size. Its just a matter of whats important, I mean NBA player dont require as much muscle mass, baseball players dont require the cardio, its all perspective.


----------



## khoveraki

I would definitely have to say however, that a top-tier competitor in MMA would do better in another sport, than another sport's top-tier would do against them in MMA.

Anderson Silva would be better 1v1 in basketball, than Kobe Bryant would do in a 1v1 cage match with Silva.

I also think the cardio of an MMA fighter on average is higher than any other sport. 


And if this an argument of athleticism, we certainly shouldn't be talking about baseball. ;P


----------



## Indestructibl3

o0o finally a motivated and hungry BJ Penn - this is gonna be a great fight. Kenny's gonna be in for a tough night but i still hope he can pull it out


----------



## FighterRepublic

SuicideJohnson said:


> That was awesome. I'm going to go try that right now.


lmao You have to show us a picture of you're jacked up face when you try that :angry04:

BJ via submission/rear-naked choke. He hasent submitted anyone since he fought Joe Stevenson in UFC 80.


----------



## TERMINATOR

If the fight thing doesnt work out for bj im sure he could be unstoppable in a game of hop scotch


----------



## phizeke

This will be a good fight period.


----------



## leifdawg

khoveraki said:


> I would definitely have to say however, that a top-tier competitor in MMA would do better in another sport, than another sport's top-tier would do against them in MMA.
> 
> Anderson Silva would be better 1v1 in basketball, than Kobe Bryant would do in a 1v1 cage match with Silva.
> 
> I also think the cardio of an MMA fighter on average is higher than any other sport.
> 
> 
> And if this an argument of athleticism, we certainly shouldn't be talking about baseball. ;P


It not about how they would do in eachother's sports it's about how they would do against eachother in a a completely different sport. John Fitch is a great fighter, but he isn't any more athletic than the average guy I play pickup basketball with .


----------



## Celtic16

Alex_DeLarge said:


> You mean cut, the elbow doesn't stop the fight.












Don't be too sure about that mate  LMAO! (he hit me 1st)


----------



## imrik32

You guys realize this was the shallow end where the steps lead into the pool? Like 2.5 feet deep max.


----------



## Celtic16

imrik32 said:


> You guys realize this was the shallow end where the steps lead into the pool? Like 2.5 feet deep max.


you try jumping 3 feet....now try going into 3 feet of water and jumping 3 feet.. there's a huge difference...


----------



## Liddellianenko

leifdawg said:


> I don't consider most MMA fighters to be top athletes. Well conditioned? Yes. Dedicated, hard workers? Yes. Highly skilled. Yes.
> 
> 
> Just think of it this way if you put say Kenny Florian into a series of athletic competitions with your average NBA player who do you think would win?


Are you kidding me? These aren't the days of Dan Severn and Tank Abbott anymore. I don't doubt that technical MMA fighters like KenFlo would get schooled by the average NBA athlete in athletic competitions. But elite MMA athletes like GSP, Rashad, Couture in his prime, or even Lesnar (competing against guys his size) would school most athletes from popular sports like basketball, baseball, soccer and even some from football (though that would be the hardest). 

If you compare the physicality and endurance training of MMA (and Boxing) fighters with other sports training like basketball, it makes it look like a cakewalk. The limits some of these guys push themselves to borders on mental torture.

They just probably couldn't compete with the track and field guys, because they're pure athletes and not as much technique so that's their forte, but then no athletes from technical sports can compete against pure athletes like that.

But I digress, back to the main post, that frog jump is freaking awesome I really didn't know that was possible.. the drag from the water always seemed way too high for that kinda thing.


----------



## leifdawg

Did you even read my whole post, I said MMA fighters are highly skilled and well conditioned. I'm speaking merely of god given gifts. And in this case guys like Brock, GSP, and Jon Jones are the still the exceptions rather than the norm. As MMA continue to increase in popularity and fighter pay increases, this will eventually begin to level out. But as of right now a guy like Andre Igudola would school someone like John Fitch in most athletic competitions.


----------



## TraMaI

*GSP will not need surgery!*



> UFC Welterweight Champion Georges St. Pierre will not require surgery for the groin injury that he suffered during his successful five-round title defense against Thiago Alves at UFC 100 on July 11, according to Sherdog.com.
> 
> The report indicates that “Rush” will be back training “within a few weeks after a brief rehabilitation.”


http://mmamania.com/2009/07/19/georges-st-pierre-groin-injury-will-not-require-surgery/



Good news  Glad he isn't severely hurt.


----------



## Blitzdog

WOOOHOOO :thumb01:


----------



## dudeabides

Man he was tough fighting like that with the problem, and glad he's gonna get right back to work!


----------



## Hammerlock2.0

I guess that means we will see another GSP fight this year?


----------



## coldcall420

Now I need someone to restart my heart......:thumbsup:


----------



## TERMINATOR

Thats good to hear


----------



## phizeke

GSP is a beast. To think he went 5 Rounds with a groin injury like that. Probably was a minor groin injury then if he doesn't need the surgery.


----------



## capjo

I wonder how they feel about reinjury in the future? Muscle pulls can be a bitch to fully heal, especially in a tender area like that.


----------



## dudeabides

Kenny, what do you think about the frog jump?



> "That's good that he can do that. That's cool. He needs to be able to apply that with a sustained effort throughout the fight for it to be impressive. It's not really fight related stuff. If we fight in the pool and the game plan is to try to jump out of the pool without using your hands then maybe he has an edge. I haven't tried that before. We'll see if it's really applicable to this fight. I think I've been the underdog once or twice in my career so it's nothing new. That just puts more pressure on BJ, I think. For me, I just see it as a wonderful opportunity to test my skills. I'm confident I can get the job done. I think this is by far the biggest challenge of my career. It's going to be an honor to go out there and test myself against someone with the skill of a BJ Penn. I believe I've done all the work. Not just for this fight. Everything I've put in since I was a kid has been for this fight. I'm looking forward to it... People see me as this regular guy who doesn't really look like a fighter. They don't really take me seriously, which I think is great. I think the assassin that you don't take seriously is the most dangerous one. I've never been a big talker so people maybe don't take me seriously or think I'm dangerous. Then if I do say I'm confident going in that I'm going to win a fight then they say that I'm cocky. People don't believe in me but that's fine. The main thing is that it starts with me. You have to believe you can do it. Hopefully I can turn some more people around. I know I have in the past. For me, I'm just focusing on what I need to do to win this fight. I'm sure there will still be doubters even if I beat BJ Penn. I can't change everybody's mind. I just need to go out there and focus on what I need to do to become a better fighter... I don't know how I'm going to get it done but I'm predicting a win. Obviously I go into every fight expecting to win. I sacrifice too much to let anybody else win. I won't allow it. I train too hard for it. Regardless, I think it's going to be a highly technical fight. It's going to be a very tough fight. I expect from every second of every round I'm going to have to work for it against BJ Penn. He's as good as it gets. I have my work cut out for me but I'm confident I'll come away on August 8 the champ. I'm not sure but I know I've been doing five rounds for the last two months now. I'm confident I can go five ridiculously hard rounds. I'm ready for that. Whatever it may be. I'm ready for a first round win or five hard rounds."


http://www.fiveknuckles.com/mma-new...e-if-its-really-applicable-to-this-fight.html


----------



## TraMaI

*ESPN Radio: Dana Furious Over Fedor Deal*

http://www.mmatko.com/dana-white-explodes-over-fedor-negotiations/

Cant embed the video sorry.

Basically Dana is saying that Fedor doesn't want to fight the best in the world etc, etc. I for one agree with him.


----------



## D.P.

I'd be furious too. But if I was Dana, I'd just let it go, forget Fedor, and focus on getting other fighters.


----------



## flourhead

i for one don't agree with that anymore. fedor is under contract to another organization and as someone mentioned in another thread, if gsp tried to leave under contract for M-1 or strikeforce, dana would shit a cow


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

flourhead said:


> i for one don't agree with that anymore. fedor is under contract to another organization and as someone mentioned in another thread, if gsp tried to leave under contract for M-1 or strikeforce, dana would shit a cow


The comparison of the UFC to M-1 is flawed. There is a difference between the UFC and M-1. 

The UFC is a fight organization. Its contracts are to promote the brand, and to an extent, the fighter. But the UFC's priority is the organization. 

M-1 represents the fighter [oh, whatever. Let's just call the cow a cow. M-1 only has Fedor]. It does not have an organization. It's purpose is to set up Fedor for fights within an organization.

The prior analogy would be more akin to Drew Rosenhaus v. the NFL.


----------



## The505Butcher

Dude i would hate to have dana pissed at me if i was a fighter. He has some serious power. And he is smart as hell. I mean usually he looks at things from a business stand point and i am sure he is doing that here, but it sounds like he is really looking to set up the best fights here and he is getting pissed that its not happening.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

Dana knows that his money comes from the fans, and he bends over backwards to make the fans happy. He is upset only because we can't see the matchup. Dana has said before he thinks Fedor isn't as good as the fans believe, yet he still put it all out there to try to get him.


----------



## Sterl

Everything he said is true, the deal that was offered to fedor was the best deal anyone can give.


----------



## 70seven

Yeah, forget Fedor, with the recent singings this week is looks like the UFC has everyone else but Fedor.


----------



## Guy

http://mmajunkie.com/news/3043/its-official-fedor-emelianenko-signs-with-m-1-global.mma



> Top free-agent fighter Fedor Emelianenko, the heavyweight champion of the now-defunct PRIDE Fighting Championships, has signed a new six-fight, two-year deal with M-1 Global.
> 
> The signing was announced this evening at a press conference in New York City.
> 
> M-1 Global was previously known as M-1 Mix-Fight Championship. The Russian-based organization had been owned by Emelianenko's manager, Vadim Finkelstein. However, Sibling Sports LLC today announced it had purchased the organization with the intention of making it a true international promotion.
> 
> Once the organization signs a television deal -- something executives expect to happen soon -- the organization's first event will be announced. It's expected to take place in February, and while Emelianenko will be on the card, his opponent is not yet known.
> 
> "We're looking for the best opponents available (for Emelianenko)," said Monte Cox, one of MMA's top fighter agents who today was named chief executive officer of M-1 Global. "There's a couple guys who we heard became free. I don't know. It's just a rumor."
> 
> The tongue-in-cheek comment was likely in reference to Randy Couture, the UFC heavyweight champion who abruptly resigned from the organization earlier this month. UFC President Dana White continues to label it a retirement, though Couture says he will fight again. During media events this past weekend at UFC 77, White said he will not release Couture from his contract. Couture has two fights remaining on the deal, and White hinted that the matter will likely have to be settled by the courts.
> 
> When asked about Couture at today's press conference, Emelianenko admitted that he'd like to fight the 44-year-old UFC hall-of-famer.
> 
> "These days, he's the strongest fighter," Emelianenko said through a translator. "It would be an honor for me to fight him... whether it's in cooperation with the UFC or not."
> 
> As part of his new deal, Emelianenko will be allowed to fight outside the organization. Additionally, he requested -- and received -- a special clause in his contract that requires M-1 Global to offer the UFC heavyweight champion $1 million more than what the UFC offers for a fight with Emelianenko.
> 
> Emelianenko specifically mentioned that clause when a reporter asked him about rumors he was unwilling to fight certain opponents, such as Tim Sylvia, if he were to sign with the UFC.
> 
> "I hope (that clause) demonstrates how I am not afraid to fight anyone," Emelianenko said.
> 
> Cox said the organization will announce the signings of additional fighters in the next 7-10 days. He also predicted that fighters from other organizations, such as the UFC, will look to M-1 Global when their contracts expire.
> 
> One reoccurring theme mentioned in today's press conference by M-1 Global executives was that the organization will be a true international organization that will recruit international talent while hosting shows throughout the world. Emelianenko specifically mentioned Japan, where PRIDE used to do business. The PRIDE 2004 Grand Prix winner said he hopes M-1 Global can fill the void left by PRIDE's demise.
> 
> The owners of Zuffa LLC (the UFC's parent company) purchased PRIDE back in March but recently shut down the organization.
> 
> As for the immediate future of M-1 Global, Cox said that additional news about the organization will be announced in the next few weeks. This evening's press conference, he said, was intended to highlight one fighter who he thinks will initially carry the organization.
> 
> "Today is all about Fedor Emelianenko," he said.


2 year, 6 fight deal? The deal being signed in October 22, 2007. Since signing that deal he has fought Hong Man Choi, Sylvia, and Arlovski which means he still has 3 more fights til his contract is over. If he would sign with the UFC that means he would be sued due to a breach of contract.

Get your facts straight people.


----------



## rabakill

flourhead said:


> i for one don't agree with that anymore. fedor is under contract to another organization and as someone mentioned in another thread, if gsp tried to leave under contract for M-1 or strikeforce, dana would shit a cow


he said Fedor could have everything, even non-exclusivity. Everything he wanted he was getting, except for the absolutely retarded co-promotion. I say to hell with Fedor and his management, if they want to behave like children so be it. Business is about compromise and they were willing to do none of it, so ****'em.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

Guy said:


> http://mmajunkie.com/news/3043/its-official-fedor-emelianenko-signs-with-m-1-global.mma
> 
> 
> 
> 2 year, 6 fight deal? The deal being signed in October 22, 2007. Since signing that deal he has fought Hong Man Choi, Sylvia, and Arlovski which means he still has 3 more fights til his contract is over. If he would sign with the UFC that means he would be sued due to a breach of contract.
> 
> Get your facts straight people.


It was widely publicized that Barnett was the last fight on his contract. The only reason he didn't sing the with UFC was because he was blindly following his piece of shit manager. YOU get your facts straight.


----------



## The505Butcher

He can at least say something when in the call about his future? can he not? or is his opinions controlled by M-1 too?


----------



## Guy

PheelGoodInc said:


> It was widely publicized that Barnett was the last fight on his contract. The only reason he didn't sing the with UFC was because he was blindly following his piece of shit manager. YOU get your facts straight.


That was his Affliction contract bud not his M1 contract. You seem to caught me off guard and I am in a good mood tonight so I'll give you positive rep for trying to make me look stupid :thumbsup:


----------



## PheelGoodInc

Guy said:


> That was his Affliction contract bud not his M1 contract. You seem to caught me off guard and I am in a good mood tonight so I'll give you positive rep for trying to make me look stupid :thumbsup:


Sweet. Thanks.


----------



## Kameleon

TraMaI said:


> http://www.mmatko.com/dana-white-explodes-over-fedor-negotiations/
> 
> Cant embed the video sorry.
> 
> Basically Dana is saying that Fedor doesn't want to fight the best in the world etc, etc. I for one agree with him.


*Who is considered the "best in the world" within the UFC? Brock Lesnar?

Honestly, Fedor doesn't have anything to prove by fighting in the UFC and the UFC shouldn't be focus on getting Fedor. There are several fighters in the HW division, outside of the UFC, that Dana White and company could be persuing. The UFC is wasting their time by trying to sign Fedor. Fedor is wasting his time by not signing with the UFC and bullshiting around.*


----------



## marso_thehed

fedor is scared of the cage. i like him but i think he knows the big hw in ufc will pin him to the cage i think most of his fights have been in a ring. dana white you really annoy me with the way you carry yourself swearing and sooking like a child who doesnt get what you want. you are great for the business but your attitude is terrible.


----------



## D.P.

Kameleon said:


> *Who is considered the "best in the world" within the UFC? Brock Lesnar?
> 
> Honestly, Fedor doesn't have anything to prove by fighting in the UFC and the UFC shouldn't be focus on getting Fedor. There are several fighters in the HW division, outside of the UFC, that Dana White and company could be persuing. The UFC is wasting their time by trying to sign Fedor. Fedor is wasting his time by not signing with the UFC and bullshiting around.*


Exactly. A big waste of time for everyone.


----------



## The505Butcher

His attitude is not terrible. He feels like he is going way overboard to get a fighter that he has said on numerous occasions would not do that good in the UFC (do not get mad and put this in the forum, its in too many others and this is Dana's opinion, and gives sway to how he might feel about it.) He is caught between getting him in here for his fans and making his company better. He went with doing everything he should do and more and is getting tossed around like he has nothing to offer fedor. I understand how he would be feeling right now.


----------



## Pr0d1gy

White's attitude IS awful, and he is not good for the sport in the grand scheme (I followed the sport before TUF and Dana came along). He should have made a bigger push for Fedor when he was available instead of crying like a bitch about not being able to get him 3-4 years after he could, and SHOULD, have done so.

He has, on multiple occasions, launched smear campaigns against fighters who have given their blood and sweat to grow this business (see Ortiz & Randy). I have tried and tried to give Dana the benefit of the doubt, but it is clear that he is little more than a petulant child who was handed the keys to the kingdom. :thumbsdown:


----------



## TraMaI

As far as I'm concerned, if Fedor isn't fighting top 5 competition he doesn't exist to me any more. I'm hereby boycotting his fights >:[


----------



## The505Butcher

Dude Dana is not good for MMA? He has the biggest MMA set up there is? He brought it from small network to big time. How is he bad for it?


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

Guy said:


> http://mmajunkie.com/news/3043/its-official-fedor-emelianenko-signs-with-m-1-global.mma
> 
> 
> 
> 2 year, 6 fight deal? The deal being signed in October 22, 2007. Since signing that deal he has fought Hong Man Choi, Sylvia, and Arlovski which means he still has 3 more fights til his contract is over. If he would sign with the UFC that means he would be sued due to a breach of contract.
> 
> Get your facts straight people.


Name an M-1 event not "co-promoted."


----------



## Buckingham

Sicilian_Esq said:


> Name an M-1 event not "co-promoted."


Apparently they have tournaments in mma and other sports.


----------



## Pr0d1gy

The505Butcher said:


> Dude Dana is not good for MMA? He has the biggest MMA set up there is? He brought it from small network to big time. How is he bad for it?


He attacks former champions for childish reasons, even pursuing legal action against them. He throws tantrums when he doesn't get his way with fighters outside the UFC, as you see here. His only real contribution was to follow the lead of every other TV market in the world and bring in a reality show, which was huge of course because there were already so many fans of MMA clamoring for free content. 

Tell me one innovated thing he really did to make the UFC "big time"? If anyone should get that credit it should be Forrest Griffin and Stephan Bonner, honestly.


----------



## TraMaI

Maybe you should do a bit of research? Sure there was bad blood between him adn Tito but I think Tito spurred that on. Also, he had EVERY RIGHT to go after Randy legally. The dude said "Okay Ill come and fight for you" and then won the title and left, while still under contract, saying eh was retiring. Then he was trying to fight in another organization. o.0


And since when were there "so many mma fans clamoring for free content?" Seriously? UFC wasn't even minutely mainstream until the FINALE of TUF1. 

He may not have done anything truely innovative, but he has done a lot of things RIGHT. Getting MMA to the right places, signing the right fighter and getting the right sponsorships. 

Or how about THE WHOLE GOD DAMN THING? The UFC was dead in teh water before Dana became president! It was a failing business hemorrhaging money and being outlawed in numerous states, and for a time, banned from Cable and PPV sales.

Dana has helped this sport be what it is today, and if it was anyone BUT Dana who was attempting it the organization would've failed years ago. He may be cocky, foul mouthed and out spoken but he is in NO way bad for the sport.


----------



## mmawrestler

F*ck Fedor! 
yeah i said it, aww let the neg reps come:thumb02:


----------



## TraMaI

^^ That.

I just don't get why he's doing what he's doing -.-


----------



## DKent

At this point I place the blame SQUARELY on Fedor. C'mon Co-promote really?? There are so many good analogies up here that im TOTALLY convinced its pointless. I'm picturing the NBA letting the CBA co-promote because they want ONE of their players....PFFF get real. The show will go on and Fedor's not a young guy VERY soon he will be irrelevant.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

I'm starting to think the only reason why the talks and offers began was to hype up Fedor and M1 more. They knew the UFC wouldn't take an offer like that, and now look at how much publicity (even if negative) it gave them.


----------



## khoveraki

TraMaI said:


> As far as I'm concerned, if Fedor isn't fighting top 5 competition he doesn't exist to me any more. I'm hereby boycotting his fights >:[


Aw c'mon, he's got three more fights wherein I'm sure he'll fight top ten HWs (Barnett being a top 2 and Overeem being at least top 10). 

You'd think the years and years of being a HW champ of every organization he touches would give him a little leeway. Three more fights, then UFC. Quote me on that.


----------



## Toxic

Guy said:


> http://mmajunkie.com/news/3043/its-official-fedor-emelianenko-signs-with-m-1-global.mma
> 
> 
> 
> 2 year, 6 fight deal? The deal being signed in October 22, 2007. Since signing that deal he has fought Hong Man Choi, Sylvia, and Arlovski which means he still has 3 more fights til his contract is over. If he would sign with the UFC that means he would be sued due to a breach of contract.
> 
> Get your facts straight people.


I would seriously question the validity of this contract and guarantee it would never be enforced by law as it was a contract offered by M-1 Global during a time when they and Addrenaline MMA were one in the same, oddly enough this conglomerate was also the same one both Tim Sylvia and Ben Rothwell were signed to, during the split Sylvia and Rothwells contracts were transfered to Addrenaline and Big Ben has obviously gotten out of his.


----------



## HexRei

TraMaI said:


> http://www.mmatko.com/dana-white-explodes-over-fedor-negotiations/
> 
> Cant embed the video sorry.
> 
> Basically Dana is saying that Fedor doesn't want to fight the best in the world etc, etc. I for one agree with him.


I'd say the UFC is the one afraid of competition, not Fedor. Dana doesn't want to assist another MMA org in any way, ever again. He cares about UFC, not MMA. IMHO.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

HexRei said:


> I'd say the UFC is the one afraid of competition, not Fedor. Dana doesn't want to assist another MMA org in any way, ever again. He cares about UFC, not MMA. IMHO.


Dana has done more for MMA than any single person since UFC 1.

Business 101. Until Dana's job is to promote MMA I don't expect him to help second rate competitors. He is the UFC president, not the MMA president.


----------



## BWoods

HexRei said:


> I'd say the UFC is the one afraid of competition, not Fedor. Dana doesn't want to assist another MMA org in any way, ever again. He cares about UFC, not MMA. IMHO.


Dana's whole stance on co-promoting has been "nobody wanted to help us when we started off, so we aren't going to help anyone else." He has a certain pride about sticking and developing modern-day MMA and taking a risk where nobody else would step in. He takes offense to the fact that so many places have popped up after seeing what HE created became popular.

If I were White I would act the same way, especially with M-1 and their sticking point of cross promoting. M-1 has yet to put on a show on their own (from what I know of) and they continually tout themselves as a company that is putting on the biggest shows around the world and are growing the sport. They have one fighter under contract worth having and they dangle him around over everyone's heads. 

Think about it like this. M-1 wants to co-promote and spend half the money putting on a show than they normally would. If the show fails, that's alright, they didn't put that much into it. If the show succeeds (and this is a guarantee since it has the UFC's brand name and other contracted fighters driving PPV buys) then they will stand to make not only the money they are getting from the deal Fedor got, but also revenue from the show itself. On top of that they also get to stick their name alongside the UFC, giving them a mainstream exposure. 

This deal with M-1 co-promoting with the UFC stands to let them to take much more out of the deal than the UFC. The UFC will be successful without M-1's help regardless. Dana White isn't about to let these guys come in and leech off the UFC's name.

That's how I would have looked at it.


----------



## DragonStriker

Wow he offered him ***** that is insane and he still didn't take it.


----------



## HexRei

PheelGoodInc said:


> Dana has done more for MMA than any single person since UFC 1.
> 
> Business 101. Until Dana's job is to promote MMA I don't expect him to help second rate competitors. He is the UFC president, not the MMA president.


That's the problem. He only cares about MMA insofar as it counts for the success of the UFC. Zuffa and Dana have actually done things that were detrimental to MMA as a whole, IMHO, such as purchasing and shutting down Pride and engaging in personal feuds with fighters.

Just as one example, the NFL doesn't have these kinds of problems, but then again, they aren't a for-profit corporation. They are an organization that exists simply to further the sport.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

HexRei said:


> That's the problem. He only cares about MMA insofar as it counts for the success of the UFC. Zuffa and Dana have actually done things that were detrimental to MMA as a whole, IMHO, such as purchasing and shutting down Pride and engaging in personal feuds with fighters.


Yeah they may have done some bad things, but no ones perfect. The good Dana has done by FAR outweighs the bad. If it wasn't for Dana White and Zuffa, this forum probably wouldn't even exist. 



> Just as one example, the NFL doesn't have these kinds of problems, but then again, they aren't a for-profit corporation. They are an organization that exists simply to further the sport.


Dana's goal is to make this the biggest sport in the world. He wants to further MMA more than anything. Part of that may be because he knows the UFC is dominating MMA. Regardless, he is doing wonders for MMA.


----------



## Toxic

To all those making the NFL comparison, I must ask has the NFL ever offered to have the Super Bowl Champs face off against the CFL Grey Cup champions? Did they offer to have the champions face the winners of the first (only) season of the XFL in order to help them? It may have been beneficial to the sport of football but Im quite sure those with money in the NFL wouldnt have appreciated it very much.


----------



## MenorcanMadman

HexRei said:


> That's the problem. He only cares about MMA insofar as it counts for the success of the UFC. Zuffa and Dana have actually done things that were detrimental to MMA as a whole, IMHO, such as purchasing and shutting down Pride and engaging in personal feuds with fighters.
> 
> Just as one example, the NFL doesn't have these kinds of problems, but then again, they aren't a for-profit corporation. They are an organization that exists simply to further the sport.


Exactly, the sport is bigger than Dana and bigger than the UFC. But not to Dana. I hate how he badmouths everything not UFC that has to do with MMA. To him if a fighter isnt in the UFC, he is ducking major competition, and it really irritates me sometimes as a fan of the sport and not just the UFC. I mean, I dont hate Dana, he just has some stuff he does that I like and some stuff he does that I hate, and thats one of them I hate. He honestly comes off like a baby sometimes.


----------



## NYYfootball

Toxic said:


> To all those making the NFL comparison, I must ask has the NFL ever offered to have the Super Bowl Champs face off against the CFL Grey Cup champions? Did they offer to have the champions face the winners of the first (only) season of the XFL in order to help them? It may have been beneficial to the sport of football but Im quite sure those with money in the NFL wouldnt have appreciated it very much.


The NFL used to play the CFL alot in the 50's and 60's. The NFL kept winning. In the 60's the AFL played the CFL and lost badly. Since the NFL hasnt touched the CFL. The NFL never challenged the XFL because the XFL was a cheap minor league with no money. Fedor has money and talent. I think Fedor should fight Dana White and maybe knock some sense into that little empty hollow noggin of his. Dana's bad for MMA>


----------



## Toxic

I would say M-1 is a cheap minor league with no money :dunno:


----------



## JoshKnows46

Dana is the fuckin man, he tryed his best.

fedor can go **** himself, he ain't nothin but a fat pus.sy....he even allowed him to do *****, he's just scared, plain and simple...i'd a loved to see brock smash his face.

i don't even give a shit about fedor anymore, he's died to me...go fight some cans.


----------



## HexRei

Toxic said:


> I would say M-1 is a cheap minor league with no money :dunno:


If the UFC wasn't so totally about lining the Fertittas' (and Dana's) pockets I'd agree with you.


----------



## JoshKnows46

HexRei said:


> so, **** the sport, its about money?


no ones watching M-1. how are they gonna expand on the sport and make it better?...no ones tunning in.

they don't have two nfl's, they don't have two mlb's....why do we need more than one mma organization to expand the sport?, i don't understand that logic.


----------



## HexRei

JoshKnows46 said:


> no ones watching M-1. how are they gonna expand on the sport and make it better?...no ones tunning in.
> 
> they don't have two nfl's, they don't have two mlb's....why do we need more than one mma organization to expand the sport?, i don't understand that logic.


You missed the point. The NFL wouldn't act like the UFC. The UFC is about making the Fertittas and the Dana $$$$$, it is a privately-owned, for-profit corporation. The NFL is a non-profit organization run by its own members. If you don't get the difference, google the terms and then think about it.


----------



## JoshKnows46

You say the nfl is a non-profit organization, i don't know if i believe that...i'm sure their not losing money.

The UFC isn't the nfl, the ufc is a team inside mma....you don't think the ne england patriots are gonna try to help out the shitty ass detroit lions...NO, the new england patriots gonna try to make the most money they can, and win the superbowl.

I don't think the ferrette and dana white put all their time and money into this sport, to lose money, so of course they are tryin to make money, but that doesn't mean they aren't doing right by the sport....and they didn't put all their time and money into this sport to help out the detriot lions of mma win a playoff game.


----------



## SonofJor-El

HexRei said:


> I'd say the UFC is the one afraid of competition, not Fedor. Dana doesn't want to assist another MMA org in any way, ever again. He cares about UFC, not MMA. IMHO.


Two points:

1) Competition? What competition? EliteXC folded on its own! Pride folded on its own! Affliction folded on it own! M-1 sucks on its own! If you think the UFC is "afraid" of any other promotion out there, you're dreaming.

2) Why in the blue frickin hell SHOULD the UFC assist any other org out there?! The other promotions out there are COMPETITORS to the UFC. You show me a businessman who helps out his direct competition and I'll show you an idiot who will soon be out of business! Do you think if Dell was in trouble and about to go under that Gateway would come in to save them? HA! Keep dreaming!

I just love how Dana and the Fertittas create a successful business model that worked (after YEARS of hard work!) and they're the bad guys because their competitors are inept. :confused03:

I thought America was about creating wealth and success. But I guess the message has changed to: If you're successful you need to stop and slow down so everyone else can catch up. It's not fair if you're successful and others aren't. You're not allowed to dominate because that's no good for the community. 

I thought that's the way communism worked. Oh wait! Fedor and his agent are from communist Russia aren't they? Now I get it!


----------



## The505Butcher

Good point to. While watching InsideMMA i heard that UFC used to co promote with other agencies but they got messed over everytime because they would send their fighters but not get any in return. i don't really know when that was or if it was really true. if it is then i can understand even more why dana won't copromote, if not then just ignore this.


----------



## SonofJor-El

The505Butcher said:


> Good point to. While watching InsideMMA i heard that UFC used to co promote with other agencies but they got messed over everytime because they would send their fighters but not get any in return. i don't really know when that was or if it was really true. if it is then i can understand even more why dana won't copromote, if not then just ignore this.


I could be wrong but didn't the UFC try to set up Chuck/Wanderlei when Pride was still active and then Pride screwed them?


----------



## The505Butcher

SonofJor-El said:


> I could be wrong but didn't the UFC try to set up Chuck/Wanderlei when Pride was still active and then Pride screwed them?


Yeah i do not know. I am pretty sure it was pride that did it though.


----------



## Maaz

well said Dana


----------



## Bob Pataki

D.P. said:


> I'd be furious too. But if I was Dana, I'd just let it go, forget Fedor, and focus on getting other fighters.


Easy to say that but he gets asked about it every day.


----------



## drey2k

We can only see Dana's side of this story...


----------



## Biowza

Well said Dana. From what I've gathered, Fedor got offered the best deal in MMA history. All the points he wanted were addressed, *****, the money, stability, everything. He still turned it down...I don't know what to say.


----------



## Deftsound

I think Fedor has got his balls in a vice by his managers


----------



## Toxic

HexRei said:


> You missed the point. The NFL wouldn't act like the UFC. The UFC is about making the Fertittas and the Dana $$$$$, it is a privately-owned, for-profit corporation. The NFL is a non-profit organization run by its own members. If you don't get the difference, google the terms and then think about it.


With all do respect Hex, bullshit, if you think the NFL is a non provit organization your crazy, every body in charge is making huge money and in order to keep those jobs they have a obligation to make decisions based on the best financial interests of the team owners. The NFL isnt selfless, you want selfless go to the olympic team from Paraguay, big sports are about big money.


----------



## Nomale

This has probably been posted before but anyway. In this interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU6Oip-7Nk8 with Sherdog Fedor says that he's under a contract with M-1 for three more fights. This should mean that if M-1 doesn't want to give him away it's not really much he can do about it. And from the viewpoint of M-1 is it so strange really that they don't want to give him up? It's their biggest asset by far. It's no different than when UFC didn't want to let Randy go to fight Fedor in another promotion. 

Of course it's bad from a fan's point of view, since we all want to see Fedor fight all the top guys, but M-1 is a company just like the UFC. Sure they're much smaller and a copromotion seems strange, but can one really blame them for making such a demand? And even if they're much smaller they do have the best heavyweight in the world which could give them a lot of leverage. On a sidenote, look how much exposure they've been given because of these events. I'm not surprised if this generates a bigger interest in mma in Russia which in the end leads to a bigger base of fighters for M-1 to sign.

Man, this shit is getting to me.. I actually had a bad dream the other day in which Fedor was KOed by Gary Goodridge in 10 seconds... *Shiver*


----------



## locnott

Deftsound said:


> I think Fedor has got his balls in a vice by his managers


I think that is the bottom line.
I wonder how much debt M-1/Sibling sports is in since the Affliction co-promotion was bust since day one?


----------



## Freiermuth

I do like Dana, but he did go overboard with implying Fedor is scared....so Fedor has some crazy contract/management issues and he seems to stick to his word (signed contracts), big deal. Hopefully we will see him in the UFC since that is the organization with the staying power, but please get off Fedors back about being a chicken.


----------



## TraMaI

PheelGoodInc said:


> Dana has done more for MMA than any single person since UFC 1.
> 
> Business 101. Until Dana's job is to promote MMA I don't expect him to help second rate competitors. He is the UFC president, not the MMA president.


I can agree with this actually, but Dana is a businessman before anything because it's his JOB. Fedor is a fighter, #1 HW in the world at that, and should do his job accordingly IMO. 

Dana co-promoting doesnt help his career, it hurts it.

Fedor signing a massive multimillion dollar contract and solidifying his #1 spot helps his career a lot.


----------



## The Don

See the major problem is that Fedor's manager is also the owner of M-1... His manager is using Fedor to line his own pockets and pbviously cares nothing for his fighter.. Fedor is under contract for 3 more m-1 fights as stated elsewhere. If that contract expires and The UFC makes the same offer to Fedor when he is a free agent and Fedor turns it down then the anti Fedor statements MAY be justified. The problem is Fedor's management has a conflict of Interest. his manager is also the owner of M-1. So even when Fedor is out of his M-1 contract he still has to deal with his same manager.. and does anyone know what is in his management contract???


----------



## GMK13

dana isnt doing this for him he's doing it because fans wanted it.yes he will make a pretty penny if he got him but whatever its one dude.i really dont care anymore.


----------



## undertow503

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=ki-fedorufc073109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

"Finkelchtein clearly botched the negotiations, but he’s not to blame.

If Emelianenko really wanted to be in the UFC and fight the best competition in the world, he would have made certain Finkelchtein got it done.

If you want to blame someone in this fiasco, blame Emelianenko.

It’s 100 percent his fault."


----------



## Nomale

undertow503 said:


> http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=ki-fedorufc073109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
> 
> "Finkelchtein clearly botched the negotiations, but he’s not to blame.
> 
> If Emelianenko really wanted to be in the UFC and fight the best competition in the world, he would have made certain Finkelchtein got it done.
> 
> If you want to blame someone in this fiasco, blame Emelianenko.
> 
> It’s 100 percent his fault."


Oh yeah, that kind of weird piece. How the heck does this Iole guy thinks he knows that..?


----------



## ZENKI1

Sicilian_Esq said:


> Name an M-1 event not "co-promoted."


m-1 challenge :confused02:



TraMaI said:


> Maybe you should do a bit of research? Sure there was bad blood between him adn Tito but I think Tito spurred that on. Also, he had EVERY RIGHT to go after Randy legally. The dude said "Okay Ill come and fight for you" and then won the title and left, while still under contract, saying eh was retiring. Then he was trying to fight in another organization. o.0
> 
> 
> And since when were there "so many mma fans clamoring for free content?" Seriously? UFC wasn't even minutely mainstream until the FINALE of TUF1.
> 
> He may not have done anything truely innovative, but he has done a lot of things RIGHT. Getting MMA to the right places, signing the right fighter and getting the right sponsorships.
> 
> Or how about THE WHOLE GOD DAMN THING? The UFC was dead in teh water before Dana became president! It was a failing business hemorrhaging money and being outlawed in numerous states, and for a time, banned from Cable and PPV sales.
> 
> Dana has helped this sport be what it is today, and if it was anyone BUT Dana who was attempting it the organization would've failed years ago. He may be cocky, foul mouthed and out spoken but he is in NO way bad for the sport.


Dude u never cease to amaze me.. Your Fedor hate rants and your bow down mouth open wide and round like a doughnut for dana is unbelievable.. On top of that your whole agruement is flawed once again and a joke. YOU HAVE FITCH AS YOUR SIG!!!!! HELLO wtf did he do to Dana to get shitted on? Ignorance is jus bliss for you isnt it..


----------



## swpthleg

D.P. said:


> I'd be furious too. But if I was Dana, I'd just let it go, forget Fedor, and focus on getting other fighters.


YES!!! I'd like to see the HW division become as stacked as LHW.


----------



## ZENKI1

There is so much misinformed info floating in this thread its crazy.... 

FIRST OFF DANA SUCKS FOR THE SPORT OF MMA . You shallow minded ufc nut huggers need to realize Dana DID NOT CREATE MMA. HE DID NOT SAVE THE SPORT OF MMA. There have been mma orgs since the 70's and before that you had shit like Vale tudo. When the ufc was near closing its doors it was because of it being banned all over the states and strong comp over seas. Dana and kroonies stepped in and lobbyed . Modified the exsisting rules to be accpeted and not outlawed .

Dana ,Zuffa ,the bros did nothing on there own they simply followed what was occuring over seas. There in the casino biz what bigger way to make money then to create your own new product of fighting like jumping into mma.. Boxing was once the major draw for Vegas so why couldnt mma . Dana and the boys saw Pride over seas setting records and selling out arenas and the TOKYO DOME 70,000 strong in person. SO they jumped on the bangwagon the same way other orgs try to now days. They bought out comp . ***** fighters jus like Pride use to against the UFC AND RINGS. 

THE ONLY THING DANA HAS DONE IS. Blind the sport as a whole from the public in faovr of his brand. With him branding the ufc as the sport of mma. So many ******* reality shows already out there it was real hard for him to come up with that idea to coax ignarant ass people into the sport with his company being the face with another real world. HE BUILT A BRAND IN THE STATES NOT A SPORT! :sarcastic12:

I personally am a FAN OF MMA. I can watch mma on any level from any org from any country and love it or hate it.. Posts by many of you show that isnt the case and you are posers.. Your in love with a brand and not a sport because you to would be able to accept and enjoy any level any show and so on.. But u cant ur ufc or die.. Thats a fuckin JOKE... Ill watch Fedor where ever he goes along with any other fighter it doesnt really matter to me as long as I see good BOUTS!


----------



## RushFan

ZENKI1 said:


> There is so much misinformed info floating in this thread its crazy....
> 
> Long rant!


Why didn't Fedor sign with the UFC? Who else can offer him as good of a deal?


----------



## Nomale

The Don said:


> See the major problem is that Fedor's manager is also the owner of M-1... His manager is using Fedor to line his own pockets and pbviously cares nothing for his fighter.. Fedor is under contract for 3 more m-1 fights as stated elsewhere. If that contract expires and The UFC makes the same offer to Fedor when he is a free agent and Fedor turns it down then the anti Fedor statements MAY be justified. The problem is Fedor's management has a conflict of Interest. his manager is also the owner of M-1. So even when Fedor is out of his M-1 contract he still has to deal with his same manager.. and does anyone know what is in his management contract???


Good points. Without any legaly binding contracts against signing with another promotion like Fedor probably has now, there shouldn't be a problem. If he _wants _to join the UFC that is. It would sound almost like a gladiator/emperor kind of thing if also the management contract would tie him to a specific promotion though.


----------



## Toxic

ZENKI1 said:


> There is so much misinformed info floating in this thread its crazy....
> 
> FIRST OFF DANA SUCKS FOR THE SPORT OF MMA . You shallow minded ufc nut huggers need to realize Dana DID NOT CREATE MMA. HE DID NOT SAVE THE SPORT OF MMA. There have been mma orgs since the 70's and before that you had shit like Vale tudo. When the ufc was near closing its doors it was because of it being banned all over the states and strong comp over seas. Dana and kroonies stepped in and lobbyed . Modified the exsisting rules to be accpeted and not outlawed .
> 
> Dana ,Zuffa ,the bros did nothing on there own they simply followed what was occuring over seas. There in the casino biz what bigger way to make money then to create your own new product of fighting like jumping into mma.. Boxing was once the major draw for Vegas so why couldnt mma . Dana and the boys saw Pride over seas setting records and selling out arenas and the TOKYO DOME 70,000 strong in person. SO they jumped on the bangwagon the same way other orgs try to now days. They bought out comp . ***** fighters jus like Pride use to against the UFC AND RINGS.
> 
> THE ONLY THING DANA HAS DONE IS. Blind the sport as a whole from the public in faovr of his brand. With him branding the ufc as the sport of mma. So many ******* reality shows already out there it was real hard for him to come up with that idea to coax ignarant ass people into the sport with his company being the face with another real world. HE BUILT A BRAND IN THE STATES NOT A SPORT! :sarcastic12:
> 
> I personally am a FAN OF MMA. I can watch mma on any level from any org from any country and love it or hate it.. Posts by many of you show that isnt the case and you are posers.. Your in love with a brand and not a sport because you to would be able to accept and enjoy any level any show and so on.. But u cant ur ufc or die.. Thats a fuckin JOKE... Ill watch Fedor where ever he goes along with any other fighter it doesnt really matter to me as long as I see good BOUTS!


 Umh Id say helping push towards legistlation signing stars, promoting cards and fights that people want to see and making MMA popular all over North America is doing alot for the sport, all these other brands that we get to watch like Strikeforce and XMMA (Canadian) would have never came to be and neither would failed companies like Bodog Fight, IFL, Elite XC or Affliction. Im not blind to anything but to say Dana has destroyerd the sport is ridiclous because when he started it barely existed in north america, Dana didnt invent it he made it matter.


Thanks for the Neg Rep to man,


----------



## All_In

ZENKI1 said:


> There is so much misinformed info floating in this thread its crazy....
> 
> FIRST OFF DANA SUCKS FOR THE SPORT OF MMA . You shallow minded ufc nut huggers need to realize Dana DID NOT CREATE MMA. HE DID NOT SAVE THE SPORT OF MMA. There have been mma orgs since the 70's and before that you had shit like Vale tudo. When the ufc was near closing its doors it was because of it being banned all over the states and strong comp over seas. Dana and kroonies stepped in and lobbyed . Modified the exsisting rules to be accpeted and not outlawed .
> 
> Dana ,Zuffa ,the bros did nothing on there own they simply followed what was occuring over seas. There in the casino biz what bigger way to make money then to create your own new product of fighting like jumping into mma.. Boxing was once the major draw for Vegas so why couldnt mma . Dana and the boys saw Pride over seas setting records and selling out arenas and the TOKYO DOME 70,000 strong in person. SO they jumped on the bangwagon the same way other orgs try to now days. They bought out comp . ***** fighters jus like Pride use to against the UFC AND RINGS.
> 
> THE ONLY THING DANA HAS DONE IS. Blind the sport as a whole from the public in faovr of his brand. With him branding the ufc as the sport of mma. So many ******* reality shows already out there it was real hard for him to come up with that idea to coax ignarant ass people into the sport with his company being the face with another real world. HE BUILT A BRAND IN THE STATES NOT A SPORT! :sarcastic12:
> 
> I personally am a FAN OF MMA. I can watch mma on any level from any org from any country and love it or hate it.. Posts by many of you show that isnt the case and you are posers.. Your in love with a brand and not a sport because you to would be able to accept and enjoy any level any show and so on.. But u cant ur ufc or die.. Thats a fuckin JOKE... Ill watch Fedor where ever he goes along with any other fighter *it doesnt really matter to me as long as I see good BOUTS!*


Really? After that extended rant that was nothing short of ignorant, you end with this hypocricy? You want the best bouts!? 

You're right though, Dana doesn't want anything good for the sport. Bringing MMA from the brink of elimination to the forefront of popular culture was bad for MMA and was only trying to line Dana's pockets. It's hilarious how simplistic you see this situation. Everyone that is tired of Fedor and M-1's ridiculous demands is simply a UFC nut-hugger. UFC is the only MMA brand that has a snowball's chance in hell of claiming that they are responsible for the MMA explosion. Your claim that MMA would have exploded anyway lacks a base. You don't know that. You don't know that 40+ million dollars would have found its way into the business structure of another MMA organization from some wealthy investor willing to take a risk on a sport that had already failed. 

The only negative you have here is that the success of the UFC is essentially the reason you don't get to see Fedor fight some of the top guys the UFC has to offer. Blame Finklechtein and Fedor for trying to "line their pockets" by making such a profit off of MMA. Fedor has a 20% stake in M-1 and Finkelchtein is the owner. You don't think the sole reason Fedor turned down this contract to fight the top guys is because he wants to see that 20% interest make him rich? The UFC was bought for 2 million bucks. It now has a net worth of close to $1.3 billion. Do the math. Fedor's 20% stake originally worth 400k would be worth upwards of 260 million. You're telling me this isn't what M-1 is trying to do? Or does M-1 just want what's best for MMA by trying to create healthy competition for the UFC?  Ok, so now the UFC should sacrifice their market share in MMA so that MMA can do this? Give me break.


----------



## TraMaI

ZENKI1 said:


> There is so much misinformed info floating in this thread its crazy....


Keep this in mind you're going to need it.


> FIRST OFF DANA SUCKS FOR THE SPORT OF MMA . You shallow minded ufc nut huggers need to realize Dana DID NOT CREATE MMA. HE DID NOT SAVE THE SPORT OF MMA. There have been mma orgs since the 70's and before that you had shit like Vale tudo. When the ufc was near closing its doors it was because of it being banned all over the states and strong comp over seas. Dana and kroonies stepped in and lobbyed . Modified the exsisting rules to be accpeted and not outlawed .


Well then lets break this down.

1) Mainstream MMA would not be around if it weren't for the UFC. It is by and large the fastest growing organaztion in MMA and is doing by far the best of all of them. Probably better than all of them combined.

2) Dana and his "kroonies" (I'm assuming that you meant cronies) weren't part of the UFC when it was banned and failing. They bought it out. Dana and the Fertitta bros did not START the UFC, but they did save it from completely tanking. 

3) Modifying the rules was exactly what was needed to nto have the sport outlawed. Not exactly sure what point you're trying to make here because the sentence goes against your entire argument of Dana being bad for the sport.



> Dana ,Zuffa ,the bros did nothing on there own they simply followed what was occuring over seas. There in the casino biz what bigger way to make money then to create your own new product of fighting like jumping into mma.. Boxing was once the major draw for Vegas so why couldnt mma . Dana and the boys saw Pride over seas setting records and selling out arenas and the TOKYO DOME 70,000 strong in person. SO they jumped on the bangwagon the same way other orgs try to now days. They bought out comp . ***** fighters jus like Pride use to against the UFC AND RINGS.


1) Quick question, what year was PRIDE founded? Don't know? Didn't think so. Try not sputtering off utter trash and then calling it fact. PRIDE was founded FOUR YEARS after the UFC. You could say that RINGS they ripped off, but its not like they were exactly a huge organization selling out arenas. And who cares if they got into the business for money? It's a business and I could care less if they're doing it for money because they still cater to the fans in order to make that money. Entire argument is completely invalid.



> THE ONLY THING DANA HAS DONE IS. Blind the sport as a whole from the public in faovr of his brand. With him branding the ufc as the sport of mma. So many ******* reality shows already out there it was real hard for him to come up with that idea to coax ignarant ass people into the sport with his company being the face with another real world. HE BUILT A BRAND IN THE STATES NOT A SPORT! :sarcastic12:


No he pretty much built the sport. MMA Before hand was all like Vale Tudo. Bare fists and brawling fights. Now that they have rules it's a sport. UFC is not a sport, it's a brand, but you don't hear people around the UFC referring to fighters as "Incredible UFCers." What you do hear is the term "Mixed Martial Artists" a lot. What Dana has done is make the name of his organization synonymous with the sport, not swallow it whole and try to start calling the sport UFC.




> I personally am a FAN OF MMA. I can watch mma on any level from any org from any country and love it or hate it.. Posts by many of you show that isnt the case and you are posers.. Your in love with a brand and not a sport because you to would be able to accept and enjoy any level any show and so on.. But u cant ur ufc or die.. Thats a fuckin JOKE... Ill watch Fedor where ever he goes along with any other fighter it doesnt really matter to me as long as I see good BOUTS!


Hey, look at the top of the page really quick. You see what board this is? yeah? ITS THE UFC BOARD! No wonder every one here is talking about the UFC. Most of the people here watch all sorts of MMA. Like I said earlier, I've SEEN every PRIDE event there is. I've seen most of the UFCs. I've seen a lot of EXC, bodog, IFL and the like. Me not wanting to watch Fedor is on the entire principal of what HE is doing being bad for the sport. He is the top HW in the world and should be fighting top competition. Regardless of what you may think of as biased, the UFC has 5 of the top 6 HWs in the WORLD, the other one is Fedor himself. It's not bias, it's fact. You want to see Fedor fight the best bouts he can, then he needs to fight in the UFC.

Next time you feel like neg repping the whole board, try and come up with a feasible argument that won't be that easily dissected.


----------



## Pr0d1gy

Toxic said:


> Thanks for the Neg Rep to man,


Shit, try getting 8 of them everytime you post. It's a joke. Oh well, at least my posts are easy to find with that big red bar under my name. Sorry I have an opinion boys, and I say boys because that is obviously mostly who trolls this forum these days.

Dana is a tool, deal with it. Oh, and for the moron who neg'd me and put TUF? in his comment, TUF is The Ultimate Fighter. God, stupidity knows no limits. :confused03:


----------



## TraMaI

*TraMaI Breaks Down UFC 101: Declaration*

Okay so I usually do this just for fun. I enjoy analyzing fights and trying to be unbiased in my breakdowns (Sometimes it's hard, see Mir/Lesnar  ). But here it is once again, tell me if my opinion sucks, tell me if it rocks. 

*Neer vs Pellegrino*
I see this fight being totally awesome in the first place. Both guys like to stand and trade and they're both tough as all get out. Kurt said in a recent interview that he's basically fighting a brick wall in Josh Neer, which is only half true because he punches back. Josh is an extremely well rounded fighter. He's got Strong striking, wrestling and submissions. Not to mention the kid is a tank. Kurt has a great submission game but his strikes can get a bit sloppy. Good thing he has a big chin too  First round or two I see nothing but fireworks from these two testing each others chins. Possibly a little bit of ground work and clinch work too. Josh will probably win the clinch and Kurt will edge him on the ground. If Kurt doesnt lock a submission early, I see him winning by UD. 

*Grove vs Almeida*
I hope this is a great fight as I'm looking forward to it a lot. Kendall has a big reach advantage (as usual) in this fight, but he doesnt seem to have much else than that. As long as he keeps moving Almeida should win this as Ricardo definitely wins this in the strength department. And chin. And on the ground. And in Take Downs vs. TDD. Ricardo by submission (hoping for a triangle) rd 1 3 minutes.

*Amir Sadollah Vs. Johny Hendricks*
This fight I'm not so pumped about, but they need to build up their golden boys huh? Both of these men are fairly inexperienced in the game and I don't see why the fight is even on the main card other than Amir won TUF. Hendricks is a fairly exciting fighter though, so we might be able to see Amir's chin tested and maybe see a bit more of his striking game. I think Amir's striking game is pretty underrated because of the sub wins he's gotten. IIRC he's a champ kick boxer or something >.> Anywho, Hendricks is a very strong wrestler coming out of OSU (Ok state not Ohio ). I think with what we've seen from Amir and wrestlers (CB lol) I think Amir subs him in the middle of the second. 

*Anderson Silva Vs. Forrest Griffin*
Oh man, this is by far my favorite fight on this card. Awesome match-up. You have Silva, the unbeatable MW with laser targeting on his strikes and a vicious ground game. Then you have Forrest, a man with more heart than an organ donation repository and is arguably one of the most well rounded fighters in the UFC. Forrest showed with Rampage that he has some of the best game planning in the business, after all, he is the protoge of Randy. He also showed in that fight that he can be an extremely effective counter-striker. I Expect Forrest to come out and try to expose one Silva's only minor holes, his takedown defense. It's not like Silva has absolutely horrid takedown defense, but it's by far his biggest lacking of skill in his game. I think Forrest has an under appreciated ground game as well. He's got great sub defense and an above average sub game. His guard is extremely active and he's always looking for something so if he's put on his back he isn't in dire trouble. Another thing effecting this fight is Silva's loss of reach advantage. He has about one inch to work with while in his last 3 fights it's never been less than 4. I think that's a huge adjustment for Silva to have to make. The best way I see for Silva winning the fight is to either out point Forrest using his speed and and striking or clinch him and try for a TKO. But to be honest, I see Forrest taking this one by UD.

*BJ Penn Vs. Kenny Florian*
This fight is really hard for me to be unbiased on. I absolutely hate BJ Penn and I'm a fan of Ken Flo, but I'm trying. People may have seen me saying "kenFlo by TKO 3rd round" around here, and I honestly want that to happen, but I don't think the fight will go that way. BJ has some great boxing so he's definitely no slouch standing, but I still dont think he'll win the fight standing up. I think Kenny will out point BJ standing because he's more dynamic on his feet. He uses great angles and has very good footwork. On the ground is a whole different story. I think BJ will be able to dictate where this fight takes place fairly easily. BJ has astounding TDD and some good takedowns. Kenny's TDD is pretty lack luster and I doubt he's going to want to go to the floor with BJ. On the ground I see BJ dominating this fight unless he makes a couple huge mistakes that Kenny can capitalize on, which isnt likely. I see BJ winning this by RNC in the second. Unless of course GSP really did steal his soul 

Discuss.


----------



## AceCombat

Kenny is more dynamic on the feet, but he will still get hurt standing up with Penn -- Penn`s left jab will be dramatic. BJ`s hands are too quick and accurate and his timing is simply AMAZING. Kenny could score early with leg kicks but I don`t see him dictating the stand-up at all. BJ is kind of a small man, but Kenny`s _no_ 5`10" either -- GSP`s 5`10" and he has at least an inch (being generous) on Kenny.

If Kenny wins this, it will probably be by subbing a cut, gassed, mentally broken Penn by using his overrated yet underrated BJJ.

For the record, I think his (overall) grappling is overrated, but his functional BJJ is underrated (hard to explain, but may get my point).

Even if you`re not a betting person, do you really see Forrest taking this, I mean it`s possible, but would you bet big on it?


----------



## Davisty69

I agree with your analysis pretty much across the board. Well played sir.


----------



## Pound&Mound

Not really an analysis from me, but I think Kenny is gonna get tagged circling away from BJ against the fence and go down. As much as I want Kenny to outclass BJ, I just don't see it at all. 

BJ by TKO round 2.


----------



## Toxic

AceCombat said:


> Kenny is more dynamic on the feet, but he will still get hurt standing up with Penn. BJ`s hands are too quick and accurate and his timing is simply AMAZING. Kenny could score early with leg kicks but I don`t see him dictating the stand-up at all. BJ is kind of a small man, but Kenny`s _no_ 5`10`` either -- GSP`s 5`10`` and he has at least an inch (being generous) on Kenny.
> 
> If Kenny wins this, it will probably be by subbing a cut, gassed, mentally broken Penn by using his overrated yet underrated BJJ.
> 
> For the record, I think his (overall) grappling is overrated, but his functional BJJ is underrated (hard to explain, but may get my point).
> 
> Even if you`re not a betting person, do you really see Forrest taking this, I mean it`s possible, but would you bet big on it?



BJ is a BJJ world champion, aint no way Kenny is ever gonna submit him, no way no how. Kenny's grappling is in no way underated, people are hyping the shit out of a guy with crappy take downs and who grabs the cage to avoid getting taken down cause he cant even spell sprawl much less perform one. Kenny's BJJ is also so horribly overated its not even funny, Florian has decent BJJ, nothing to laugh at, nothing to rave about its a regular BJJ blackbelt and pretty much on par with most of the LW division or in other words miles behind BJ's. Penn is gonna destroy Florian and then everyone could move onto over hyping BJ's next "big" threat.


----------



## AceCombat

> Kenny's grappling is in no way underated


That`s exactly what I am saying, I don`t see Florian taking Penn down and struggling to avoid takedowns if Penn even bothers to go for them. 

Penn is his own worst enemy, what I mean is that whoever wins this fight will be determined by BJ Penn. I don`t think Florian has anything on Penn, but if Penn gasses or is broken mentally, then anything can happen -- I just don`t see Florian (T)KOing Penn so i figured maybe if Penn`s broken and gassed he could give up a greasy armbar or something, unlikely.


----------



## AdRath

I agree that the Forest/A.Silva will be the fight I am most looking forward to. 

I also can't stand BJ but alas must give him the edge also. 
Can't wait to see Diego/BJ match. Although I can't stand either so I guess a big bloody standup war would make me smile?


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

Man I'm pulling for Almeida but I don't see it happening. Grove needs his smash faced in again. Those were the good old days. Unfortunately Almeida isn't the guy to do it. I pick Grove to win that one simply cause of his size and if Almeida couldn't get Cote down (except once in the fist round) then he won't get Grove down. I easily see Grove just jabbing and picking apart Almeida on the feet.

Hendricks gets too aggressive with Amir I believe. Amir by sub.

Neer/Pellegrino is a pretty good fight. Either Neer by sub or Pellegrino by U. Decision.

Silva is all around better then Forrest. Silva by TKO.

Could care less about Penn/Florian, hate both guys. One of those instances where I know it'll be a great fight and that's that. No predictions, simply because I don't want to see either guy win, ever. One minute I feel like I'm going to root for Florian because I hear some stupid BJ says. Then the other minute I hear Kenny Florian's obnoxious lame shit voice ranting about and I pull for Penn. It's just too much for me to handle.


----------



## The505Butcher

I agree with most of this. I do not think that the Silva/Griffin will go to decision though. It will end in the second or third round IMO. It is hard to say why. i just think that both of these fighters are looking to finish this, and Silva needs to lose. I love his fighting but i think this a weight class above his normal dominance, and i would hate to have a #1 205 pound fighter that will not fight the champ.


----------



## TraMaI

AceCombat said:


> Kenny is more dynamic on the feet, but he will still get hurt standing up with Penn -- Penn`s left jab will be dramatic. BJ`s hands are too quick and accurate and his timing is simply AMAZING. Kenny could score early with leg kicks but I don`t see him dictating the stand-up at all. BJ is kind of a small man, but Kenny`s _no_ 5`10" either -- GSP`s 5`10" and he has at least an inch (being generous) on Kenny.


An inch or two wont matter really. And their height =/= reach. You height is approximate to your reach, not exact. Kenny is actually coming into this fight with a four inch reach advantage which is pretty huge IMO, especially since BJ has a boxing style, kenny can use his jab to keep BJ at bay but it will be much harder for BJ to do so since he'll be inside Kenny's range. I think Kenny will score with Leg kicks the whole fight and he'll tire BJ with body kicks. While BJ is amazingly accurate and precise with his striking, Kenny isn't exactly Dan Henderson when it comes to throwing huge, telegraphed looping punches. 



> If Kenny wins this, it will probably be by subbing a cut, gassed, mentally broken Penn by using his overrated yet underrated BJJ.


Completely agree with you and I think that should BE kenny's game plan to do so.



> Even if you`re not a betting person, do you really see Forrest taking this, I mean it`s possible, but would you bet big on it?


Yes, yes I would. Silva may be a better fighter (even then I don't give it to him by an astounding amount), Forrest is the king of upsets. Like I said before, Forrest is becoming the new Randy Couture. If he's the underdog he fights like a genius. He's got some of the best game planning and mentality in the sport and I think half of what Silva's opponents are doing is psyching themselves out before they even enter the cage. Forrest is too laid back to do that and I think that's a huge advantage from his point. He is one of maybe 3 fighters in the UFC I would pick to beat Silva (Nate, Machida and Forrest, and Nate is pushing it) because he's so dynamic. The dude adapts to anything the game throws at him and not a lot of fighters who have fought Silva have been able to do that. What Silva does is take people out of their saftey zone in fights and breaks them there. With Cote he wasn't being agressive, so Cote didn't do anything. With Leites he wouldnt go to the ground so he totally nullified anything he could do. Forrest only has one amazing talent in his game, and that's being good any where his opponent takes the fight.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

It's good you admit you're picking Forrest on the simple fact he can pull off upsets. That's the only reason why people should predict him.


----------



## SonofJor-El

ZENKI1 said:


> There is so much misinformed info floating in this thread its crazy....
> 
> FIRST OFF DANA SUCKS FOR THE SPORT OF MMA . You shallow minded ufc nut huggers need to realize Dana DID NOT CREATE MMA. *HE DID NOT SAVE THE SPORT OF MMA*. There have been mma orgs since the 70's and before that you had shit like Vale tudo. When the ufc was near closing its doors it was because of it being banned all over the states and strong comp over seas. *Dana and kroonies stepped in and lobbyed . Modified the exsisting rules to be accpeted and not outlawed* .


Dude, I don't know if you read what you write but you said that "he (Dana White) did not save the sport of MMA" and later in the same paragraph admitted that Dana was the reason it was "accepted and not outlawed". In my book that's "saving the sport" but then again I am legally insane. :thumb02:

You see folks! This is why arguing with hypocrites is SO MUCH FUN! It requires no effort. Just let them run their mouth and they will eventually contradict themselves and then all you need to do is quote them back to themselves and watch them get even more angry. I swear, these boards are more fun than anything on TV! HAHAHAHA!


----------



## Hammerlock2.0

Seriously, I'm with Fedor on this one. Strikeforce means more money and I know that's where I would go. Can't really dislike him for that.


----------



## Godzuki

All_In_GSP said:


> Fedor has a 20% stake in M-1 and Finkelchtein is the owner.


Ahh, I was going to ask if Fedor had a financial interest in M-1. Now it all makes perfect sense, I think you've hit the nail firmly on the head. :thumbsup:


----------



## The Don

I can argue both sides of this.. Dana DID and DID NOT Save MMA.. He Saved an MMA company and was critical in over turning laws allowing MMA to become more mainstream IN THE US ONLY!.. Outside the US MMA was and is relatively fine. In the US would it be as popular if not for Dana? I will admit it would not most likely.. would it still exist? would there be people training and competing? Yes albeit the shows might be smaller and fewer it would he harder to find good quality training and most states would still have it outlawed. It would be slower going.. But there were guys training and competing before the UFC, especially over seas.. So the correct answer is YES and NO.. 

As for the deal. Idiots who out right blame Fedor or Dana for this deal falling through I think are both wrong. I would be will to bet that if Fedor's contract with The Fink could be gotten and read you will see Fedor has no say in anything other then not getting his ass kicked. I think after this deal.. Dana is blameless for not signing Fedor. and I think Fedor had no say in the matter


----------



## ZENKI1

Toxic said:


> Umh Id say helping push towards legistlation signing stars, promoting cards and fights that people want to see and making MMA popular all over North America is doing alot for the sport, all these other brands that we get to watch like Strikeforce and XMMA (Canadian) would have never came to be and neither would failed companies like Bodog Fight, IFL, Elite XC or Affliction. Im not blind to anything but to say Dana has destroyerd the sport is ridiclous because when he started it barely existed in north america, Dana didnt invent it he made it matter.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the Neg Rep to man,


Dana gets most if not all the credit by most for the legistlation kick because of his postion. Which isnt fair to grass roots level guys putting in the work locally and its not fair to guys like Matt Linland who I feel get no credit. Signing stars , promoting fights and putting on bouts is all apart of the game tho.. Its not saving mma.. .. Im not sure why I neg repped u .. I was in a neg repping jihadis state..Where even now ???:thumb02:



RushFan said:


> Why didn't Fedor sign with the UFC? Who else can offer him as good of a deal?


Thats the REAL KICKER THERE that fuels this thread. So many on here take Dana's word as gold and Fedor and M-1 as shit. No one knows the truth unless u where there. Dana probally was willing to sign a nice payout but for a good cost. He probally wanted some rights to Fedor that M-1 wasnt willing to hand over without a co-promoting cost. So with out copromoting its gonna ruin any career plans Fedor may have with his marketing rights in the us.. But who the hell knows.. Im jus not gonna shit on Fedor for not signing.



All_In_GSP said:


> Really? After that extended rant that was nothing short of ignorant, you end with this hypocricy? You want the best bouts!? .


Right fool.. I want the best bouts and performance that Fedor can put on. In case you missed the past 1 billion posts. I personally dont think it has to be in the ufc.



All_In_GSP said:


> You're right though, Dana doesn't want anything good for the sport. Bringing MMA from the brink of elimination to the forefront of popular culture was bad for MMA and was only trying to line Dana's pockets. It's hilarious how simplistic you see this situation. Everyone that is tired of Fedor and M-1's ridiculous demands is simply a UFC nut-hugger. UFC is the only MMA brand that has a snowball's chance in hell of claiming that they are responsible for the MMA explosion. Your claim that MMA would have exploded anyway lacks a base. You don't know that. You don't know that 40+ million dollars would have found its way into the business structure of another MMA organization from some wealthy investor willing to take a risk on a sport that had already failed.
> 
> The only negative you have here is that the success of the UFC is essentially the reason you don't get to see Fedor fight some of the top guys the UFC has to offer. Blame Finklechtein and Fedor for trying to "line their pockets" by making such a profit off of MMA. Fedor has a 20% stake in M-1 and Finkelchtein is the owner. You don't think the sole reason Fedor turned down this contract to fight the top guys is because he wants to see that 20% interest make him rich? The UFC was bought for 2 million bucks. It now has a net worth of close to $1.3 billion. Do the math. Fedor's 20% stake originally worth 400k would be worth upwards of 260 million. You're telling me this isn't what M-1 is trying to do? Or does M-1 just want what's best for MMA by trying to create healthy competition for the UFC?  Ok, so now the UFC should sacrifice their market share in MMA so that MMA can do this? Give me break.


You to are also flawed. Your arguement to me is how do I know it could have gone any differnt then if Dana wasnt invovled.? That without the money from Zuffa and Dana's crude bizness tacts there wouldnt have been any mma in the states? Dana is the key reason why I should be happy that at the local pub I can walk in and see it flooded with frat boys wearing ufc shirts , full contact fighter and tapout and I should love it. I get to listen to retreads talk out there ass about Kimbo already having lost in the ufc and arguing about it because they saw him fight in a cage for strikeforce and they dont know there is a difference and Im suppose to embrace this?

It was cool for the UFC to wanna co-promote with Pride when they where the kings so that if and when they crossed the sea it would have been with the ufc and not against them. But for m-1 to wanna do the same its a bad thing? I dont agree with the UFC's current nazi tactic of no inter-org bouts and there restrictions they have on fighters. I feel it holds the sport back into a brand more then it allows it to grow into a univeral sport. Which falls back down to the almighty dollar. Orgs like strikeforce and mfc have been around a long long time. Have been birth place to many mma current stars but get no love as helping the sport grow. Who is to say they couldnt have done what the ufc did had the ufc not exsisted? No one .. U dont know.. U dont know that Hero's could have been the North American mma explosion or Pride could have came and conquered.. What you fail to realize is with out all these other shows UFC would not be what it is in the US today. MMA could not be as big as it is here now.


----------



## ZENKI1

SonofJor-El said:


> Dude, I don't know if you read what you write but you said that "he (Dana White) did not save the sport of MMA" and later in the same paragraph admitted that Dana was the reason it was "accepted and not outlawed". In my book that's "saving the sport" but then again I am legally insane. :thumb02:


TOUCHE Next time I'll be sure to reread my most to make sure my message is clear and not distorted. But from the whole "accepted and not outlawed " I meant as in the ufc . I remember when they where :bye02: because of the shows lack of rules and was the talk human cock fighting. I don't consider them "saving mma" then but saving there product. Orgs over seas had differnt rules at the time and was also considered mma and I dont recall them being singled out and being told they could not ever come here..


----------



## All_In

ZENKI1 said:


> You to are also flawed. Your arguement to me is how do I know it could have gone any differnt then if Dana wasnt invovled.?


This part is right. You would want to address this in the rest of your post.



ZENKI1 said:


> That without the money from Zuffa and Dana's crude bizness tacts there wouldnt have been any mma in the states? Dana is the key reason why I should be happy that at the local pub I can walk in and see it flooded with frat boys wearing ufc shirts , full contact fighter and tapout and I should love it.


You're starting to move further and further from the original thesis.



ZENKI1 said:


> I get to listen to retreads talk out there ass about Kimbo already having lost in the ufc and arguing about it because they saw him fight in a cage for strikeforce and they dont know there is a difference and Im suppose to embrace this?


First of all, Kimbo fought in Elite XC, not Strikeforce. Secondly, dealing with noob fans is a common, although annoying, occurrence that comes with a new sport with rapidly growing fan bases. 

In your mind, is it too much to ask that you either kindly explain to the noobs why Kimbo is not a threat for the HW crown for x number of reasons or just ignore the noob comments? Is hearing these comments pain enough for you to wish that MMA never was brought to the mainstream? That watching MMA on different broadcasts like Spike or CBS casually and monthly PPV events is not enough to have to put up with noobs singing the praise of Kimbo? C'mon man, that's hardly something to get so worked up about. 

Furthermore, it wasn't even what we had talked about in the first place. First, it's Dana isn't responsible for MMA going mainstream, and that he didn't do anything original or anything that someone else could not have done the same. Now, it's, "f&*k Dana for creating x amount of things about mainsteam MMA that I hate." 



ZENKI1 said:


> Orgs like strikeforce and mfc have been around a long long time. Have been birth place to many mma current stars but get no love as helping the sport grow.


Strikeforce HAS done a lot for MMA. Nobody is really saying they haven't. There's no question though that the UFC has done more. That's all. They are not required to help out other MMA organizations to help grow the sport. They do enough on their own to; why risk your bottom line for the sake of other organizations that compete for your market share? This isn't even taking into account the precedent you set by giving in to the demands of ONE fighter/part promotion owner.



ZENKI1 said:


> Who is to say they couldnt have done what the ufc did had the ufc not exsisted? No one .. U dont know.. U dont know that Hero's could have been the North American mma explosion or Pride could have came and conquered...


No, but what we do know is that the UFC does exist, have made the decisions they've made to get to their current position, and no other company did.



ZENKI1 said:


> What you fail to realize is with out all these other shows UFC would not be what it is in the US today. MMA could not be as big as it is here now.


:dunno: I guess I do fail to realize that...


----------



## ZENKI1

You are the biggest bandwagonner I have ever meet on any forum.. You posted about how u felt Dana was god and how fair and jus he is but then failed to reply on how thats all joke while your rocking a Fitch Sig . After the fact that Fitch has been shitted on by Dana.. SO then u try to jump on this post lol.. Trying to point out obvious stuff like its not already known.. 



TraMaI said:


> Keep this in mind you're going to need it.
> 
> Well then lets break this down.
> 
> 1) Mainstream MMA would not be around if it weren't for the UFC. It is by and large the fastest growing organaztion in MMA and is doing by far the best of all of them. Probably better than all of them combined.
> 
> 2) Dana and his "kroonies" (I'm assuming that you meant cronies) weren't part of the UFC when it was banned and failing. They bought it out. Dana and the Fertitta bros did not START the UFC, but they did save it from completely tanking.
> 
> 3) Modifying the rules was exactly what was needed to nto have the sport outlawed. Not exactly sure what point you're trying to make here because the sentence goes against your entire argument of Dana being bad for the sport.
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Quick question, what year was PRIDE founded? Don't know? Didn't think so. Try not sputtering off utter trash and then calling it fact. PRIDE was founded FOUR YEARS after the UFC. You could say that RINGS they ripped off, but its not like they were exactly a huge organization selling out arenas. And who cares if they got into the business for money? It's a business and I could care less if they're doing it for money because they still cater to the fans in order to make that money. Entire argument is completely invalid.
> 
> 
> 
> No he pretty much built the sport. MMA Before hand was all like Vale Tudo. Bare fists and brawling fights. Now that they have rules it's a sport. UFC is not a sport, it's a brand, but you don't hear people around the UFC referring to fighters as "Incredible UFCers." What you do hear is the term "Mixed Martial Artists" a lot. What Dana has done is make the name of his organization synonymous with the sport, not swallow it whole and try to start calling the sport UFC.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, look at the top of the page really quick. You see what board this is? yeah? ITS THE UFC BOARD! No wonder every one here is talking about the UFC. Most of the people here watch all sorts of MMA. Like I said earlier, I've SEEN every PRIDE event there is. I've seen most of the UFCs. I've seen a lot of EXC, bodog, IFL and the like. Me not wanting to watch Fedor is on the entire principal of what HE is doing being bad for the sport. He is the top HW in the world and should be fighting top competition. Regardless of what you may think of as biased, the UFC has 5 of the top 6 HWs in the WORLD, the other one is Fedor himself. It's not bias, it's fact. You want to see Fedor fight the best bouts he can, then he needs to fight in the UFC.
> 
> Next time you feel like neg repping the whole board, try and come up with a feasible argument that won't be that easily dissected.


No shit ?? Dana didnt create the ufc.. :confused02: lol.. They modified the rules for the sport to be accepted? :confused02: Um no .. They modified the rules so the product they purchased could be legal in the states. 
Im not gonna pick through the rest of your dumbass post.. It boils down to your last para.. You feel that since Fedor is the #1 hw in the world he has to sellout to the UFC in order to be worth watching because you feel that is where the top talent is and there isnt any outside the ufc. Im gonna disagree with that.. There is probally 2 bouts worth fighting in the ufc.. There is probally 2 bouts worth fighting outside the ufc.. Ill watch Fedor where ever he goes . CAPISHE?


----------



## ZENKI1

All_In_GSP said:


> First of all, Kimbo fought in Elite XC, not Strikeforce. Secondly, dealing with noob fans is a common, although annoying, occurrence that comes with a new sport with rapidly growing fan bases.


Brain fart yes Elite not what ever I said my bad.. Yes I realize dealing with noob fans is common.. It jus doesnt help when there misinformed from there main show.. The point was UFC protrays themselves as mma does not acknowledge other shows or the sport as a whole but jus them being the sport.. But whatever..


----------



## Pr0d1gy

I'm going to throw this out there now, because it needs to be said. Fedor does not need the UFC in any way, shape, or form. The only thing he stands to gain from the UFC is a huge financial windfall, which is what the UFC isn't willing to give anyone...even Fedor. Fedor should make at least 2-3 million per fight in the UFC as a base pay, and possibly make another 1-2 million per fight based on performance. There is no reason why the UFC couldn't pay that kind of money with the amount of PPV buys and in-house fans they have at each PPV. 

The problem here isn't Fedor, it is the cheap asses that run the UFC. I can guarantee you that Dana is worth 10 times more money than guys like Tito and Randy, who made the UFC what it is. The injustice of that fact should not be lost on any of you. It's like you going into work for 10 years and almost single-handedly keeping the company alive and your boss is making 10, 20, hell maybe 100 times as much money as you....and all he did was schedule your appointments and open A new branch (TUF).


----------



## All_In

Pr0d1gy said:


> I'm going to throw this out there now, because it needs to be said. Fedor does not need the UFC in any way, shape, or form. The only thing he stands to gain from the UFC is a huge financial windfall, which is what the UFC isn't willing to give anyone...even Fedor. Fedor should make at least 2-3 million per fight in the UFC as a base pay, and possibly make another 1-2 million per fight based on performance. There is no reason why the UFC couldn't pay that kind of money with the amount of PPV buys and in-house fans they have at each PPV.
> 
> The problem here isn't Fedor, it is the cheap asses that run the UFC. I can guarantee you that Dana is worth 10 times more money than guys like Tito and Randy, who made the UFC what it is. The injustice of that fact should not be lost on any of you. It's like you going into work for 10 years and almost single-handedly keeping the company alive and your boss is making 10, 20, hell maybe 100 times as much money as you....and all he did was schedule your appointments and open A new branch (TUF).









> I'm not talkin about rich, I'm talkin bout wealth. Well people say, "what's the difference?" Shaq is rich! The white man that signs his check is wealthy!


Go to :45 seconds for the point. Complaining about Dana being worth more than Tito or Liddell is like complaining about Bill Gates' wealth because it's all of his computer nerds that develop the software that make Microsoft what it is. To simplify it, it's like complaining that Mark Cuban is worth more than Dirk Nowitzki. It's like saying it's a travesty that any owner of a professional sports team is worth more than the star players that make the team entertaining to watch. It's failing to grasp how any capitalist system works.


----------



## TraMaI

Did you even read anything I posted? In no way did I say the only reason I'm predicting Forrest is because he can pull off upsets. I said he fights better when he's an underdog, but I also said he has superior game planning and is extremely well rounded as a fighter. I also said that he nullifies Anderson's reach/weight/height advantages tthat he holds over so many other middle weights. There are so many other reasons I stated in that post that have nothing to do with Forrest winning because he can pull off upsets. If Forrest wins this fight, it won't be because "he can pull off upsets" it will be because he's a great tactician and fantastically well rounded.


----------



## ramram22

Neer over kurt: Neer is better striker, and can handle wreslters with his BJJ

Almedia over Grover: can control the fight, plus Grove has good standup but nothing to aw at.

Amir over Johnny: I could also see Johnny control the fight with his wrestling to though, 50/50, fight probaly shouldnt be on the main card.

Griffin over Silva: Silva will not be able to control Forrest in the clinch, infact Forrest will have the advantage with Randy's dirty boxing. Griffin has a long enough reach and is a good enough striker where Silva will not be able to pick him apart. Silva won't be able to take him down and both ground games will be held in check. Griffin wins a UD for being more active

Kenny over BJ: I dont see Kenny being stopped in the early rounds, and kenny will take advantage of his superior muay tai as time progresses. BJ has good stand up but idk if he has a clear advantage. I don't see BJ being able to use his superior BJJ. Kenny will win in rounds 4 or 5.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

Griffin doesn't have a better clinch then Silva. No one does in the UFC at any weight class.

Kenny over BJ is silly.


----------



## khoveraki

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Griffin doesn't have a better clinch then Silva. No one does in the UFC at any weight class.
> 
> Kenny over BJ is silly.


Agreed on all points. The only thing I want to add is that Silva hasn't clinched successfully with a guy as big as Forrest in his career. Forrest has identical reach and an inch of height, and I don't think he could cut to 185.


I can't WAIT for this card. BJ Penn will come out angry and violent because of his losses at 170 and Florian will be overwhelmed in the stand-up. 

I also love that Thalas is being punished by being put on the pre-lim. I can't believe he even has another fight so soon though.


----------



## ramram22

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Griffin doesn't have a better clinch then Silva. No one does in the UFC at any weight class.
> 
> Kenny over BJ is silly.


Griffin doesn't have better, but he is skilled and strong enough to neutralize Anderson's


----------



## Pr0d1gy

All_In_GSP said:


> Go to :45 seconds for the point. Complaining about Dana being worth more than Tito or Liddell is like complaining about Bill Gates' wealth because it's all of his computer nerds that develop the software that make Microsoft what it is. To simplify it, it's like complaining that Mark Cuban is worth more than Dirk Nowitzki. It's like saying it's a travesty that any owner of a professional sports team is worth more than the star players that make the team entertaining to watch. It's failing to grasp how any capitalist system works.



Bill Gates stole Windows from Apple or IBM (I forget which) and most owners made their money outside of the sports arena (Arthur Blank made Home Depot for example). What has Dana done other than get filthy rich off his underpaid fighters? I don't fail to grasp anything, I just fail to understand how your argument is supposed to persuade anyone. Dirk may not be owner wealthy, but he is damn sure making more than a few hundred thousand a year.....unlike UFC champions....which is why Fedor told Dana to shove it up his fully shaved ass. All raise01:raise01:raise01: Fedor. He is a fighter-activist.


----------



## TraMaI

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Griffin doesn't have a better clinch then Silva. No one does in the UFC at any weight class.
> 
> Kenny over BJ is silly.


He doesn't, but I dont think anyone said he does. Griffin will probably have a good strength advantage over Silva. He's also taller which is going to make it harder for Silva to clinch him over shorter opponents at 185.


Kenny over BJ really isnt silly at all. Try and look at fights more objectively and without bias. You'll see more and more that Kenny has a solid shot to beat BJ.



> I also love that Thalas is being punished by being put on the pre-lim. I can't believe he even has another fight so soon though.


I can't believe he has another fight PERIOD.


----------



## TraMaI

ZENKI1 said:


> No shit ?? Dana didnt create the ufc.. :confused02: lol.. They modified the rules for the sport to be accepted? :confused02: Um no .. They modified the rules so the product they purchased could be legal in the states.
> Im not gonna pick through the rest of your dumbass post.. It boils down to your last para.. You feel that since Fedor is the #1 hw in the world he has to sellout to the UFC in order to be worth watching because you feel that is where the top talent is and there isnt any outside the ufc. Im gonna disagree with that.. There is probally 2 bouts worth fighting in the ufc.. There is probally 2 bouts worth fighting outside the ufc.. Ill watch Fedor where ever he goes . CAPISHE?


Art Davie founded the UFC with help from Rorion Gracie. Dana had nothing to do with it. And how does it make a difference between "widely accepted" and "able to be purchased by the public?" You don't even have an arguement there. Without the ability to be purchased legally in the USA the UFC and MMA in general never would've gotten NEARLY as big as it is today and to say so is complete ignorance. 

I never EVER said that Fedor needs to be fighting in the UFC specifically because he's the #1 HW, I said he needs to be fighting TOP FIVE competition. There are no currently ranked top 5 heavyweights outside of the UFC. Fedor needs to be fighting in the UFC becuase that is, in fact, where the top competition is right now and if he wishes to be considered the top heavy weight for the next few years while he's still retiring he needs to fight the top 5 consistently. To push this through that thick skull, this is like the HW champion of a given organization defending his belt against the #7 hw in that organization. Do you call that a true champion? I sure as hell wouldnt. There are two bouts in Strike Force (as in Rogers and Overeem I'm guessing?). I have no interest in seeing him fight Rogers. Overeem I admit may give him a fight. In the UFC he has Mir, Randy, Lesnar, Carwin and possibly Cain as he evolves. That's 5 inside the UFC right now. 2 is a joke. You can be as ignorant as you want about the subject, but you're wrong regardless.


----------



## RushFan

Anyone notice Dana's guns are looking huge these days. I think he is secretly training to challenge Fedor! You heard it here first. You don't believe me?










It happens!


----------



## The Don

TraMaI said:


> There are two bouts in Strike Force (as in Rogers and Overeem I'm guessing?). I have no interest in seeing him fight Rogers. Overeem I admit may give him a fight. In the UFC he has Mir, Randy, Lesnar, Carwin and possibly Cain as he evolves. That's 5 inside the UFC right now. 2 is a joke. You can be as ignorant as you want about the subject, but you're wrong regardless.


I have to disagree a bit here.. I agree withtteh strikeforce.. I'd like to the the fight with Rodgers.. it would be fun I think.. with Overeem it makes me thing of the CC fight with FEdor.. a great striker.. 

In the UFC.. Mir as much as I like him I think is no challenge.. neither is Randy. Lesnar carwin and Cain are all big strong and powerful. but still are raw in a lot of ways as in experience.. and we all know how Fedor handles big strong guys.. Not saying they could be no problems but I think Overeem might be the biggest challenge in the HW world at the moment.. Give the later 3 another year or two training hard and improving their skills another fight or 3 under their belts that tune may change.. 

To go back to Mir.. He is great in man aspect.. but has nothing Fedor has not seen... he does not have crazy KO power, nor the ability to take you down at will.. Great jits true.. but nothing if he can't get it to the ground. If he comes in with a solid game plan and can stick to it 100% there is always a chancealot said he could not beat Nog.. I had him picked to win that fight. I just don't think he has it just right for Fedor.. Keep his skills gains some size and power possibly improves his quickness.. then again his chances go up. 
Randy.. he just has a punchers chance I think.. really has nothing Fedor has to worry about.


----------



## TraMaI

*Why Forrest Ran Out*

http://mmamania.com/2009/08/09/forrest-griffin-suffers-jaw-injury-at-ufc-101/



> Silva and Griffin spent the first minute or so feeling each other out, but when Forrest turned up the heat, it was Silva who caught fire. The Brazilian started hulking up and toying with the former light heavyweight champ while continually dropping him with accurate and well timed bombs.
> 
> Yet it was a simple fade-away right hand that eventually felled the The Ultimate Fighter (TUF) 1 champ, leaving many fans in attendance and at home scratching their heads.
> 
> Griffin, who is known for his tremendous heart, seemed dazed and confused and basically flopped to the ground like a pro wrestler trying to “sell” his opponent.
> 
> Any chance that Griffin had to either criticize his performance or credit Silva’s was lost when he bolted from the cage and ran into the back — despite trying to be dissuaded by a UFC official.
> 
> It was the second such time Griffin walked out on his post-fight obligations.
> 
> 
> After suffering a devastating technical knockout loss to Keith Jardine at UFC 66, Griffin sprinted to the locker room in tears, unable to face the reality of being stopped in what was likely a pivotal fight in his still-young career.
> 
> While the emotional reaction to that loss was understandable, some fans were not so forgiving the second time around.
> 
> The Griffin camp confirmed earlier this morning his jaw was in fact dislocated and, from their standpoint, required immediate medical attention. Griffin was unable to hear out of one ear, according to the report.


I figured it was something other than just being KO'd like he was (which probably s till had something to do with it), hope he recovers well


----------



## bigbarstowski

Damage limitation.


----------



## box

Yea, he didn't look upset, he had more of a "wtf is wrong with my jaw" look, as he ran to the locker.


----------



## imrik32

I don't know why people are harping on "His heart" and being confused. Being KTFO has nothing to do with heart.


----------



## bigbarstowski

imrik32 said:


> I don't know why people are harping on "His heart" and being confused. Being KTFO has nothing to do with heart.


Who got knocked out? I saw someone get jabbed and then concede while on the ground.


----------



## BrianRClover

This has been widely regarded as rumer for the most part, I believed it was true. Can you attatch a source, it will help the cause.


----------



## HeelHooker

TraMaI said:


> http://mmamania.com/2009/08/09/forrest-griffin-suffers-jaw-injury-at-ufc-101/
> 
> 
> 
> I figured it was something other than just being KO'd like he was (which probably s till had something to do with it), hope he recovers well


Damn! Silva's sick.

He's broken a nose twice, lacerated Irvine's face, voodooed Cote's knee and now this, a dislocated jaw slash temporary deafness.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

box said:


> Yea, he didn't look upset, he had more of a "wtf is wrong with my jaw" look, as he ran to the locker.


This.

Go back and watch. Griffin was hardly in tears, nor did he look visibly upset. It was more a look of concern, than anything. And why people would say that this is an 'excuse' is beyond me. I doubt Griffin needs to make excuses. In the end, Silva is the one whom inflicted the damage, and no one is saying otherwise, so why Silva fans are so up in arms over this is quite puzzling.


----------



## Ground'N'Pound5

if its true i hope he feels better


----------



## olkeller

I dont by it just yet. I want to see an official report. I thought it was bad to say anything against Fedor but questioning Forrest is Blasphemy. 

I think he is a guy with a huge ego that trys to look humble but comes off as fake. Running out on the fight is a symptom of that but go ahead and neg rep me for guestioning Forrest.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

olkeller said:


> I think he is a guy with a huge ego that trys to look humble but comes off as fake. Running out on the fight is a symptom of that but go ahead and neg rep me for guestioning Forrest.


Oh, yeah, that's Forrest, alright. A completely arrogant prick.

And BJ Penn is the most humble man in MMA.


----------



## olkeller

I never said anything about BJ at least he is honest about who he is. Arrogant is a lttle differnt than huge ego. Ego is concerned more with what someone else thinks of you or your idea of what people think of you. I really dont care if you see it or not, maybe one day you will it really dont matter. I always liked Forrest or at least until the the Jardine fight after that. It was like my eyes were open I could see past his stupid jokes and attempts to look humble. A humble person doesnt try to convince you he is humble. 

One more the differnce between ego and self esteem is one of them takes an audiance.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

olkeller said:


> I never said anything about BJ at least he is honest about who he is. Arrogant is a lttle differnt than huge ego. Ego is concerned more with what someone else thinks of you or your idea of what people think of you. I really dont care if you see it or not, maybe one day you will it really dont matter. I always liked Forrest or at least until the the Jardine fight after that. It was like my eyes were open I could see past his stupid jokes and attempts to look humble. A humble person doesnt try to convince you he is humble.
> 
> One more the differnce between ego and self esteem is one of them takes an audiance.


Your posts hurt my head. 

It couldn't just be that Forrest is an emotional guy, or that he really was badly injured after the fight, to the point of requiring urgent medical attention. Oh, no... he must be an ego-maniac. Because anyone whom tries to come off as humble can't possibly be so. Flawless logic. Thank you for exposing men like Forrest and GSP here, today. 

By the way... is your mother also your sister?


----------



## swpthleg

bigbarstowski said:


> Damage limitation.


That's exactly what it was, ringside doctors or not.

I'm already very weary of ZOMG!! FORREST RAN OUT LIKE A BITCH!!! posts. Swing from Silva's nuts all you want, the man is a force of nature, but leave off the other bullshit.


----------



## Evil Ira

I hope Forrest recovers okay. Man, Anderson Silva is deadly! 

I also hope that Forrest will be able to bounce back from two consecutive losses with a win.


----------



## name goes here

I think if Forest could keep fighting he would of. Wether or not he has a good personality I don't care, he is undeniably pretty able in the octagon. 
I'm surprised A.Silva did so well against a top fighter in a weight class above. If he wont fight Lyoto, then maybe a smaller hw?


----------



## Canadian Psycho

I wouldn't mind Shogun vs. Silva, but it all depends. Knocking out an over-the-hill Chuck isn't enough to prove to me that Shogun is back in full form. That said, if he can a) defeat Lyoto, or b) put up one heck of a fight, to the point where we can safely say he's showing shades of his Pride days, then Shogun vs. Silva could prove very interesting. I'd also love to see Silva vs. Mousasi. God, I wish the UFC had landed Mousasi.


----------



## SonofJor-El

I'll give Forrest the benefit of the doubt on this one. His jaw did look off as he was leaving the cage.


----------



## dudeabides

Anderson was looking scary good, nonhuman, didn't blame Forrest for anything that was wrong with him.


----------



## Davisty69

That makes more sense. Him running out for any other reason just didnt seem to fit Forrest's usual character.


----------



## TALENT

I hate people seeing me when I am hurt. Forest could be the same way. If his jaw was all jacked up and he knew he couldn't talk right and would just be a mumbling fool at the interview then I can totally see him taking off. 

Also I am sure he just plain wasn't thinking right. The poor boy got rolled hard


----------



## TraMaI

swpthleg said:


> That's exactly what it was, ringside doctors or not.
> 
> I'm already very weary of ZOMG!! FORREST RAN OUT LIKE A BITCH!!! posts. Swing from Silva's nuts all you want, the man is a force of nature, but leave off the other bullshit.


This. I was rooting for Forrest that whole time and Anderson made him look like a 10 year old fighting on the play ground. Silva sh owed fantastic form that I thought he may have lost by underestimating his past opponents in Cote and Leites. He came and proved to everyone that he never left, his opponents just wanted nothing to do with him. Forrest put up a good fight but I don't think Forrest would've quit that fight unless he had to. If Forrest's jaw got popped with that first punch, then holy shit that man is crazy for taking two more.


----------



## cabby

anybody got pic of the jaw as he was leaving?


----------



## TraMaI

*Lytle Out of UFN 19*

CRAP!!!! I was really looking forward to this fight 



MMAMania said:


> UFC workhorse Chris Lytle has been forced to withdraw from his 170-pound showdown against Carlos Condit at UFC Fight Night 19 from the Cox Convention Center in Oklahoma City, Okla., on Sept. 16, after suffering a severe injury to his knee.
> 
> MMAmania.com confirmed the news with a source close to Lytle earlier today.
> 
> “Lights Out” was coming off a unanimous decision win over Kevin Burns at The Ultimate Fighter (TUF) Season 9 finale this past June in a stand-up war that saw Lytle earn his third “Fight of the Night” bonus in as many attempts.
> 
> With an anticipated return date of no earlier than 2010, this will mark the first time in his ten year career that the rugged striker did not fight at least three times per year.
> 
> The UFC is currently searching for an opponent for Condit, who will be making his sophomore effort inside the Octagon after a razor-thin split decision loss to Martin Kampmann at UFC Fight Night 18 back in April.
> 
> UFC Fight Night 19 will serve as the lead-in for the upcoming tenth season of TUF, which features Kevin “Kimbo Slice” Ferguson and a solid collection of 15 other heavyweight fighters competing in a tournament-style format to earn one “six-figure contract.”
> 
> The main event of the evening will see TUF 5 winner Nate Diaz get a chance to break out of an 0-2 slump when he tangles with Melvin “The Young Assassin” Guillard. Lightweight studs Roger “El Matador” Huerta and Gray “The Bully” Maynard are also expected to hook ‘em up.


 Lytle is always game and I would've loved to see him and Condit fight. Wonder who will replace him?


Best of luck to Chris though, here's to a speedy recovery!

http://mmamania.com/2009/08/11/knee...fc-fight-night-19-bout-against-carlos-condit/


----------



## vandalian

Dammit! I was just starting to go into Chris Lytle withdrawal. Now what am I supposed to do?


----------



## dudeabides

What's the severe injury? I'm hoping it's not a prolonged thing, and I'm also bummed about the loss to the fight night card.


----------



## TraMaI

Something in his knee, so it sounds bad


----------



## The505Butcher

That's unfortunate... I want to see Condit fight after Kampman fight. Hope he wins this time.


----------



## steveo412

I would like to see Condit fight Parysian. I dunno if he can fight yet though. Theres tones of guys in the division to step in though.


----------



## Charles Lee Ray

Lyttle can never seem to get any momemtum in his career. When ever he wins in the UFC he almost always loses his next fight. Now he loses that chance.


----------



## TraMaI

*Fitch vs Almeida set for 106*

http://mmamania.com/2009/08/12/ufc-106-jon-fitch-vs-ricardo-almeida-in-the-works-for-nov-21/



> Fresh off his unanimous decision victory over Kendall Grove at UFC 101, MMAmania.com has learned that Ricardo Almeida (11-3) will finally get to make his welterweight debut when he tangles with 170-pound stalwart Jon Fitch (19-3) at UFC 106 from the Mandalay Bay Events Center in Las Vegas, Nevada, on Nov. 21.
> 
> Since returning to the sport of mixed martial arts after a self-imposed three-year layoff to open the Ricardo Almeida Jiu-Jitsu Academy in Hamilton, N.J., “Cachorrao” has posted a 3-1 record, which includes wins over Grove, as well as the previously unbeaten Rob Yundt at UFC 81 and Matt Horwich at UFC Fight Night 18.
> 
> The lone loss came via split decision to the hard-hitting Patrick Cote at UFC 86 — a fight that earned “The Predator” a title shot against middleweight kingpin, Anderson Silva.
> 
> Almeida was expected to make the drop in weight prior to UFC 101; however, Joe Silva offered him a chance to fight in front of his hometown crowd if he remained at 185-pounds to mix it up with “Da Spyder” during the televised portion of the Philadelphia event.
> 
> It was an offer he couldn’t, and didn’t, refuse.
> 
> 
> With the hard-fought win behind him, Almeida can now set his sights on the welterweight division — against arguably one of the toughest competitors in the entire class.
> 
> Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
> 
> The former number one welterweight contender returned to the Octagon at UFC 100 to exact revenge against submission specialist Paulo Thiago, taking the contest via unanimous decision. The Brazilian stunned his good friend and American Kickboxing Academy training partner, Josh Koscheck, with a fight-ending first round uppercut at UFC 95: “Sanchez vs. Stevenson” earlier this year.
> 
> The Purdue University wrestler now boasts 10 victories for the promotion in 11 attempts. The lone blemish on his record is to welterweight deity Georges “Rush” St. Pierre in their championship match from UFC 87: “Seek and Destroy” in Aug. 2008.
> 
> And the competition isn’t getting any easier.
> 
> Stay tuned for more information on the developing UFC 106 fight card as it becomes available


Thoughts on the fight? I think Jon should be fighting a little higher ranks but meh, should be a good fight for Jon.


----------



## Emericanaddict

Fitch takes this via Unaminous Decision.

He has the wrestling skills to counterat anything Almeida can dish out on the ground and a more than solid stand up game that will frustrate the one dimensional brazillian all night long.


----------



## AceFranklin88

I think Fitch takes this one pretty easily. He has an edge in wrestling, Striking, cardio, etc. Fitch also has excellent sub defense. But decent fight for Fitch. I, too, would like to see him fight higher ranked guys, but oh well.


----------



## TraMaI

Hopefully he can finish Ricardo so he'll stop fighting better competition. I'd like to see Jon keep this fight standing TBH, because I think he wins the stand up easy.


----------



## mattandbenny

This one has snoozefest written all over it, its gonna be like cote-almeida all over again.


----------



## Arlovski_Fan

This is gonna be LnP central, awwwww yeaaaaah.


----------



## coldcall420

Kendall almost won that fight.....Fitch by a long shot.......


----------



## Charles Lee Ray

They are certainlly not giving Almeida an easy transitions to the WW division.


----------



## NATAS

this fight aint going to be worth watching! haha


----------



## coldcall420

Charles Lee Ray said:


> They are certainlly not giving Almeida an easy transitions to the WW division.


 

What do you mean he's gotta earn it, its not like the UFC would ever give someone that was 1-1 a title shot....:confused05:


----------



## TALENT

Fitch all the way.


----------



## looney liam

NATAS said:


> this fight aint going to be worth watching! haha


agreed, its going to be a grappling stalemate for the most part.

almeida's best tool is his submissions, but fitch cannot and will not tap. fitch should just keep this standing and show how much his muay thai has came along since the gsp fight. he's talked so much about how he went to thailand to work on his strikes, but he still goes to the ground each and every fight. if he's going to beat gsp he has to be winning those standup exchanges.

if fitch wins this surely he should be fighting for the title. i would've liked a ranked ww, but i suppose almeida will have to do.


----------



## AceCombat

Very interesting match-up, Fitch will probably be larger in this fight, better prepared, and in better shape. Regardless I think Fitch is the better fighter -- I don't see Almeida winning this fight anywhere, on the ground or on the feet.


----------



## The Horticulturist

I don't think Fitch is going to let this go to decision. He was pretty upset about the last fight getting there, and he had said before hand he was going to take it to Thiago early. I say TKO rd 1 or 2. But this is a long way away.


----------



## rsquared1769

Almeida will be outmatched in this fight. Fitch's wrestling will nullify Almeida's JJ and Fitch is better in all other area's so Fitch wins.


----------



## Toxic

Almedia has some very underated striking and actually appeared to have Grove hurt a couple times. I like Almeida as an underdog in this bout and think he has alot better chances of winning than people are giving him credit for.


----------



## ramram22

What is going on here? Almedia is a top knotch MMA fighter, he was a top 3 185er after he beat chonan, and took a hiatus. He dominated Marquardt back in the day.
Why so much Almeida hate here, do you not get why the UFC respects him so much?

In his return , he had that terrible fight against Cote, but is getting back to the evolved UFC. He's a great athlete with as good BJJ as there is in the UFC, with weak but improving standup. I mean Paulo Thiago almost submitted Fitch, why can't Almedia?

This is a 50/50 fight.


----------



## Toxic

I think the Cote/Amedia fight gets to much flack, stylistically it was a horrible match up but besides that you have to consider how much was on the line, they were one fight away from a title shot and for Cote he had been there before and lost that opportunity to a strong BJJ fighter in Lutter so Amedia was a major threat to him. I do think that fight really improved both fighters confidence though as Cote tried taking Anderson Silva down proving his confidence in his ability not to be submitted has grown and Almedia was much happier to engage against Grove than against Cote proving his confidence has grown. This happened because Cote proved to himself he can survive with a top BJJ fighter while Almedia proved he can survive against a fierce striker.


----------



## Stapler

I'm surprised that he will be taking on a welterweight that is among the top 5 in the world in his first fight as a welterweight. You'd think he would want to ease into the weight class with a fight against a B level opponent. Oh well, maybe he wants to become a contender as soon as possible, and with a win over Fitch, that would certainly put him up there.

Either way, this is a bad match up for Almeida. His submissions aren't that great against guys with an above average ground game and he usually goes for mostly control when fighting guys that know how to defend on the ground. I don't think he will be able to control a guy like Fitch and will be on the losing side of a decision here.

I don't see this being very exciting.


----------



## swpthleg

I can think of a lot of words to describe Fitch, but boring is not one of them.


----------



## coldcall420

Toxic said:


> I think the Cote/Amedia fight gets to much flack, stylistically it was a horrible match up but besides that you have to consider how much was on the line, they were one fight away from a title shot and for Cote he had been there before and lost that opportunity to a strong BJJ fighter in Lutter so Amedia was a major threat to him. I do think that fight really improved both fighters confidence though as Cote tried taking Anderson Silva down proving his confidence in his ability not to be submitted has grown and Almedia was much happier to engage against Grove than against Cote proving his confidence has grown. This happened because Cote proved to himself he can survive with a top BJJ fighter while Almedia proved he can survive against a fierce striker.


 

After what I saw from Anderson the other night and how he did against Forrest I do have a new respect for Cote'......


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

Fitch via UD. I'm happy he'll get another W, but throwing him against Almeida shows Dana & Co. aren't going to give him another crack at GSP any time soon.


----------



## swpthleg

That's what I *really* want to see, is a Fitch/GSP rematch. Battle of the pec kanji!


----------



## osmium

Fitch will make almeida gas then TKO him this one won't even be close.


----------



## Stapler

swpthleg said:


> I can think of a lot of words to describe Fitch, but boring is not one of them.


I can't tell who this was aimed at, but I wasn't calling Fitch boring. I just don't think this will be a very exciting fight because I think Almeida has the BJJ to neutralize Fitch from the bottom, but I think Fitch can avoid being submitted and defeat Almeida with control.

I hope this stays standing for a while.


----------



## Xerxes

Meh what a lame and uninteresting match-up. Hope this is on the undercard.


----------



## AK-Bronco

ramram22 said:


> I mean Paulo Thiago almost submitted Fitch, why can't Almedia?
> 
> This is a 50/50 fight.



Your right Almedia will probably almost submit Fitch. 
Almedia barley beat Kendall Grove, not a top 185er by any stretch. A first time cut to 170 + Fitch's pace = a long night for Almedia.


----------



## swpthleg

Nick_V03 said:


> I can't tell who this was aimed at, but I wasn't calling Fitch boring. I just don't think this will be a very exciting fight because I think Almeida has the BJJ to neutralize Fitch from the bottom, but I think Fitch can avoid being submitted and defeat Almeida with control.
> 
> I hope this stays standing for a while.


It wasn't directed at anyone in particular. When I see "50/50 fight" and know that there's a possibility that it will remain standing for awhile, I think, stand and bang, and that's awesome.


----------



## ramram22

AK-Bronco said:


> Your right Almedia will probably almost submit Fitch.
> Almedia barley beat Kendall Grove, not a top 185er by any stretch. A first time cut to 170 + Fitch's pace = a long night for Almedia.


Barely beat Grove? Almedia won atleast 2 rounds clearly, I thought he won all 3. Grove got a great arm bar, but Almedia is one of the only guys in the UFC to have the ability to get out of the UFC. Grove had a huge reach advantage, and knew what Almedia was going to do.

How is this an uninteresting matchup? Do you people forget how good Almedia was at middleweight, and has some of the best BJJ in the UFC.


----------



## NastyNinja

Almeida had to fight and get past a really big and decent skilled in BJJ guy....He attacked and attacked and attacked...the cardio he showed was pretty amazing, trying to take that guy down over and over burns ALOT and he still stood to throw shots....

His standing game is not as bad as some of you are making out to be and if you think on the floor Fitch will be "ok" then you seriously need to remember who Almeida is...

Sorry but Fitch is not going to roll on Almeida in any form of fighting, he has a advantage in the stand up but he is blowing hot air right now with the whole new thai thing, we have yet to see it and it is hard to do it when a guy is looking to yank you to the floor....It is also not easy to avoid when the guy is such a high BJJ student...

Big dog has a rough rough fight coming but It will be who has the best game plan and the will to force it in the cage...


----------



## TraMaI

ramram22 said:


> I mean Paulo Thiago almost submitted Fitch, why can't Almedia?
> 
> This is a 50/50 fight.


Because Fitch does NOT get subbed. Ever. He's been in a deep submissions in almost every one of his fights and he just lets the other fighter gas trying to get it and then pops out. This is more like an 80/20 fight IMO. Almeida's standing is underrated but so is Jons. Jon has mad reach on him too. Jon won't be subbed and his wrestling out classes Ricardo all over the ground.


----------



## TraMaI

*Demian looks much biggerr than I thought he'd be*










He looks a lot larger than I thought he was. I don't think Nate's size is that huge of an issue anymore. So hyped for this fight >.<


----------



## SlowGraffiti

Wow he's bigger than I expected. I always think of him as a small middleweight whenever he's brought up for some reason. Maybe because he's on the ground most of the time.


----------



## dudeabides

I'm looking forward to this fight like none other on that card, going to be interesting to see where it goes. And I want to see if the strength training with Rafael Alejarra at team Wand helps Maia.


----------



## Chileandude

TraMaI said:


>


Shirts off PLZ?

in a totally straight way off course....i think, damn this forum is the Ghey.


----------



## HexRei

wait, whaaaa? they're doing weighins two days beforehand? or is that just a hype shot?


----------



## TERMINATOR

surely just hype shot


----------



## Chileandude

HexRei said:


> wait, whaaaa? they're doing weighins two days beforehand? or is that just a hype shot?


Shirts on suggests press conference, or something like that.


----------



## HexRei

ok, that makes sense. had me worried.


----------



## Halebop

Yeah fellas I wanna see the pants off too! Maybe Dana can strip off his clothes too, huh? That'd be pretty cool. I coming from a strictly straight point of view here. Not interested in any homosexual nuances.


----------



## khoveraki

Wow Demian is definitely benefiting at W.Silva's gym. I can't wait to see his striking and see if it's better.


I don't honestly see how Nate wins this.


----------



## HexRei

Yeah, this pic does make me feel a little better about the 200k I put on Maia


----------



## SpecC

damn, i thought nate was a big MW


----------



## Biowza

Just remember that big =/= strong. I still think that Marquardt is much stronger than Maia.


----------



## HexRei

gomi was probably stronger than diaz  sometimes length can mean a lot for a guy with good BJJ


----------



## T-Pain

Shirts on..cant see nates roid induced frame.


----------



## Judoka

HexRei said:


> ok, that makes sense. had me worried.


I was too, i was thinking is the event tomorrow? I would have missed it.


----------



## Hellboy

Just because they look the similar size now doesn't mean it will be that way come fight night.


----------



## HexRei

Hellboy said:


> Just because they look the similar size now doesn't mean it will be that way come fight night.


yeah, i bet nate will rehydrate two or three inches of height.... LOL

Unless maybe you're suggesting that Maia was wearing thicker-soled shoes? I suppose that is quite possible.


----------



## Ground'N'Pound5

lol dana's eyes says he's ready for a threesome =3

lol well anderson silva is like 6'1 6'2 so yeah middleweights can be pretty big


----------



## Jamal

Man, such a tough fight to pick


----------



## Hellboy

HexRei said:


> yeah, i bet nate will rehydrate two or three inches of height.... LOL
> 
> Unless maybe you're suggesting that Maia was wearing thicker-soled shoes? I suppose that is quite possible.


Marquardt will look massive "physique wise" to Maia come fight night.


----------



## tyler90wm

So I just watched the 102 countdown and on it Marquardt said, "I could do a grappling match with him (Maia) right now and beat him" :confused03:


----------



## Biowza

tyler90wm said:


> So I just watched the 102 countdown and on it Marquardt said, "I could do a grappling match with him (Maia) right now and beat him" :confused03:


Well did he specify what SORT of grappling match? If its rasslin' I'd pick Marquardt over Maia lol


----------



## KryptoNITE^^

WOW! Maia is gonna tool him this weekend.

Get ready for a new MW Champ everyone... Once Marquardt is choked out it's The Spider's turn.


----------



## Davisty69

Yeah, Maia looks taller, but Marquardt has some large arms. He is a fairly muscular dude. 

This fight all comes down to whether or not Marquardt can keep off the ground with Maia. Once he's down there, I don't see him winning.

On a side note, I would definitely like to see the grappling match suggested by Marquardt in the Countdown. That would be fun as hell to watch, especially considering Marquardt's confidence.


----------



## Nefilim777

Man I saw Nate on this months Muscle and fitness and he looked ******* HUGE!!!


----------



## Josh Jones III

Since when does taller always equal bigger? Nate is still much thicker. GSP wasn't bigger than Thiago Alves, right? Alves was shorter but way bigger. With shirts off, Maia will be cut but definitely the smaller man.


----------



## HexRei

the thinner man.


----------



## Soojooko

Still... looking at the photo I would struggle to pick out the stronger man. I would have expected there to be a more obvious difference even considering they're clothed. I'm surprised and that little bit more confident that maybe Maia wont get blasted. It could be a great fight.


----------



## Biowza

HexRei said:


> the thinner man.


Have you seriously gone all this time thinking that when someone says 'The bigger man' they mean in terms of how tall they are?


----------



## limba

bigger doesn't necessarily mean stronger.
nate is realy strong. normaly i would say he could use his strength to take it to the ground, but not this time...
can't wait for this fight.:thumb02:


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Soojooko said:


> Still... looking at the photo I would struggle to pick out the stronger man. I would have expected there to be a more obvious difference even considering they're clothed. I'm surprised and that little bit more confident that maybe Maia wont get blasted. It could be a great fight.


With all due respect, I think it's clearly visible that Nate is the 'larger' fighter. How anyone could look at Nate's bicep and Maia's bicep and declare them as 'close' in comparison is beyond me. Not trying to be disrespectful. Just disagreeing. And I love some of these posts. People see that Demian is an inch taller than Nate, and suddenly, every little thing is going to be alright.


----------



## HexRei

Biowza said:


> Have you seriously gone all this time thinking that when someone says 'The bigger man' they mean in terms of how tall they are?


no, but I dont think its all about how wide they are, either. I think come fight day they'll probably be about the same in terms of total mass. Demian might be a pound or three lighter (although we won't know) and I guess that could make Marquartd the "bigger man".



Canadian Psycho said:


> With all due respect, I think it's clearly visible that Nate is the 'larger' fighter. How anyone could look at Nate's bicep and Maia's bicep and declare them as 'close' in comparison is beyond me. Not trying to be disrespectful. Just disagreeing. And I love some of these posts. People see that Demian is an inch taller than Nate, and suddenly, every little thing is going to be alright.


Fights really just come down to biceps, after all.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

HexRei said:


> Fights really just come down to biceps, after all.


And I said that in my post, did I? He said he was struggling to see the difference between the two. I asked him to look at the biceps of each fighter and tell me the same. But thanks for putting words into my mouth. Always nice when someone does that to make a point they can't make otherwise.


----------



## HexRei

i was being sarcastic, obviously.  you can't actually tell someone's size from their biceps imho. go to the gym and look at those dudes doing curls in the mirror with flabby pecs and belly. now, that's not marquartd, but i'm not about to award him the bigger fighter medal based on his biceps either.


----------



## Soojooko

Canadian Psycho said:


> With all due respect, I think it's clearly visible that Nate is the 'larger' fighter. How anyone could look at Nate's bicep and Maia's bicep and declare them as 'close' in comparison is beyond me. Not trying to be disrespectful. Just disagreeing. And I love some of these posts. People see that Demian is an inch taller than Nate, and suddenly, every little thing is going to be alright.


With all due respect, it's not clearly visible. I 'expected' it to be clearly visible but it isn't going by that pic. The fact that you wont even consider that it is 'close' ( again, going by the pic ) is blinkered.

I fully expected Nate to power through Maia even though I enjoy Maias skills. All I was saying is that the pic is surprising. Can't you at least admit that?


----------



## Canadian Psycho

HexRei said:


> i was being sarcastic, obviously.  you can't actually tell someone's size from their biceps imho. go to the gym and look at those dudes doing curls in the mirror with flabby pecs and belly. now, that's not marquartd, but i'm not about to award him the bigger fighter medal based on his biceps either.


Yes, you were, but it seemed like it was at my expense. 

I think that what we've seen in past fights will hold true this Saturday. Nate will be the bigger fighter, build wise. I have no doubts. I also don't equate this to an automatic win, either. I'm fully aware that Maia is an elite submission specialist, and that if Nate takes this to the ground even once, he could get caught. I could also see him pulling off a Nog like victory, having his ass handed to him for the bulk of the fight, yet finding that one, split opening in which to do his thing. That said, I could also see Nate being smart about things and avoiding the ground altogether, and I'm hard-pressed to believe that Maia could take him down. And I think Nate would pick Demian apart on the feet. 

So there's a variety of ways this could go, and I honestly have no clue as to who will prevail. I'm a fan of both guys, which is why, for me, this is just one of those 'wait and see' fights. Much like Nog vs. Randy. Both are so capable of pulling off the win in their respective territories, but it all depends on where the fight goes. And what version of each shows up. Too many variables for me to really come out and say 'such and such WILL win'.


----------



## HexRei

sorry if I came off that way. I can be a little prickly sometimes. I agree, this could go either way. I did put 200k on Maia but that wasn't that I was so sure he would win, but that the odds seemed to be favoring Marquartd just a little too much. Can't wait to see this fight, it's gonna be badass.


----------



## Soojooko

Canadian Psycho said:


> So there's a variety of ways this could go, and I honestly have no clue as to who will prevail. I'm a fan of both guys, which is why, for me, this is just one of those 'wait and see' fights. Much like Nog vs. Randy. Both are so capable of pulling off the win in their respective territories, but it all depends on where the fight goes. And what version of each shows up. Too many variables for me to really come out and say 'such and such WILL win'.


Certainly agree with this though.


----------



## T.Bone

khoveraki said:


> Wow Demian is definitely benefiting at W.Silva's gym. I can't wait to see his striking and see if it's better.
> 
> 
> I don't honestly see how Nate wins this.


What? You got all that from that picture? 

I honestly see Nate taking this fairly comfortably... I'm rooting for Maia though, I wanna se him in the upper tier of MW.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Soojooko said:


> With all due respect, it's not clearly visible. I 'expected' it to be clearly visible but it isn't going by that pic. The fact that you wont even consider that it is 'close' ( again, going by the pic ) is blinkered.
> 
> I fully expected Nate to power through Maia even though I enjoy Maias skills. All I was saying is that the pic is surprising. Can't you at least admit that?


In my eyes, it is clearly visible. The only thing I can give Maia on the basis of that picture is that he's a tad taller than Nate. Nothing about it, however, screams that Maia is *as big* as Nate. I said I was going to have to disagree, but that I was doing so with all due respect. No need to get all bothered. People do disagree on things. We'll see come fight day, and if Maia comes in looking like Tony Atlas, I owe you a Coke.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

By the by, I'm just playing Soojooko 

I stand by my opinion, but respect that you have yours. No worries.


----------



## TraMaI

to clarify, I wasn't saying Maia looks bigger than Nate. I was saying he looks a lot bigger than I thought he was. I always though eh was really small MW, like small enough to fight at WW. Nate will still definately have a strength advantage in this fight, but it won't be as large as I previously thought


----------



## Biowza

HexRei said:


> no, but I dont think its all about how wide they are, either. I think come fight day they'll probably be about the same in terms of total mass. Demian might be a pound or three lighter (although we won't know) and I guess that could make Marquartd the "bigger man".


You DO realise that we aren't actually talking about how big the guy is right? We're talking strength. Nate will be (and is) much stronger than Maia. I know they'll weigh about the same, and have similar height but in the same way that I weigh the same as GSP and he is MUCH stronger than me Marquardt will be much stronger than Maia even though they might weigh the same. 

By the way, I think the fight will eventually get to the ground and Maia will sub him in the 2nd or 3rd. 

Wait, I think Nate will keep it standing and beat Maia in round 1. 

Wait, maybe Nate will...

Or Maia could...

Bah, I honestly don't know lol, all I know is that I can't wait for this fight :thumbsup: I think I'll just sit back and enjoy it.


----------



## BrianRClover

This situation with Maia, Marquardt, Henderson... even Bisping, Quarry, Kang, and Okami... just goes to show you how much bullshit it is when people claim the UFC's MW division is weak... if you ask me anyway.


----------



## Soojooko

TraMaI said:


> to clarify, I wasn't saying Maia looks bigger than Nate. I was saying he looks a lot bigger than I thought he was. I always though eh was really small MW, like small enough to fight at WW. Nate will still definately have a strength advantage in this fight, but it won't be as large as I previously thought


Exactly. Even though I still believe Nate is stronger, I'm suprised how big a MW Maia is.

@Psycho
We 'could' argue, going by that pic, that Maias forearm is at least 4 pixels wider than Nates. What you got to say about that, hmm?


----------



## Biowza

By the way, what's the deal with Maia's jeans? They look like they are backwards, but aren't.


----------



## HexRei

Biowza said:


> You DO realise that we aren't actually talking about how big the guy is right? We're talking strength. Nate will be (and is) much stronger than Maia.


Actually... I didn't. Normally I use "big" in regard to size, and "strong" in regard to strength. Reading the FP of the thread I'm not sure its entirely clear that strength was the topic rather than size.




> I know they'll weigh about the same, and have similar height but in the same way that I weigh the same as GSP and he is MUCH stronger than me Marquardt will be much stronger than Maia even though they might weigh the same.
> 
> By the way, I think the fight will eventually get to the ground and Maia will sub him in the 2nd or 3rd.
> 
> Wait, I think Nate will keep it standing and beat Maia in round 1.
> 
> Wait, maybe Nate will...
> 
> Or Maia could...
> 
> Bah, I honestly don't know lol, all I know is that I can't wait for this fight :thumbsup: I think I'll just sit back and enjoy it.


Yeah, Nate probably will be stronger. I'll give you that.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Soojooko said:


> @Psycho
> We 'could' argue, going by that pic, that Maias forearm is at least 4 pixels wider than Nates. What you got to say about that, hmm?


My God, you're right! This changes things... 

Anyone else looking forward to this more than Jardine-Thiago? I can't understand why this fight didn't warrant 'co-main event' when it's clearly so detrimental to the shape of the current MW division. Whereas Thiago and Keith aren't exactly in line for a title shot, regardless of a win or a loss. I guess it doesn't really matter all that match. Just a minor gripe, given it's one of those mega fights that literally could go either way at any given moment.


----------



## TraMaI

HexRei said:


> Actually... I didn't. Normally I use "big" in regard to size, and "strong" in regard to strength. Reading the FP of the thread I'm not sure its entirely clear that strength was the topic rather than size.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, Nate probably will be stronger. I'll give you that.


I think it's a given and will known fact that Nate will be stronger, I was just surprised by Maia's size TBH.


I still can't pick a winner for this but I'm definately going for Maia. If Nate even touches the floor he'll get subbed. I know he's got a great BJJ game, but Demian is just on another ******* level man.


----------



## Biowza

HexRei said:


> Actually... I didn't. Normally I use "big" in regard to size, and "strong" in regard to strength. Reading the FP of the thread I'm not sure its entirely clear that strength was the topic rather than size.


Well I've personally always thought that size (bigness) is much less of an issue in an MMA bout than strength (strongness, not a word I know). But I suppose it doesn't really matter. 

We can agree that they'll be roughly the same size, but Marquardt will be stronger.



Canadian Psycho said:


> Anyone else looking forward to this more than Jardine-Thiago? I can't understand why this fight didn't warrant 'co-main event' when it's clearly so detrimental to the shape of the current MW division. Whereas Thiago and Keith aren't exactly in line for a title shot, regardless of a win or a loss. I guess it doesn't really matter all that match. Just a minor gripe, given it's one of those mega fights that literally could go either way at any given moment.


Totally agree, I personally couldn't really care less about Jardine vs Silva. Maia vs Marquardt on the other hand will have my full attention.


----------



## Soojooko

Right, that's it... I'm really bloody excited now. What a fight. This match-up represents everything excellent about MMA.


----------



## TraMaI

Indeed it does. It's going to be great when one of them fights Silva too. Finally some really great MW talent for him to fight. I really don't care to see him fight Hendo again since it seems so recent that they last fought (I know it was well over a year), but that will be a great fight as well. If Maia wins and Hendo loses, Nate/Hendo would be an AWESOME fight too.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

TraMaI said:


> Indeed it does. It's going to be great when one of them fights Silva too. Finally some really great MW talent for him to fight. I really don't care to see him fight Hendo again since it seems so recent that they last fought (I know it was well over a year), but that will be a great fight as well. If Maia wins and Hendo loses, Nate/Hendo would be an AWESOME fight too.


This. 

Maia vs. Silva would make for quite an interesting fight. A man whose strongest area is Anderson's perceived weakest area. A man who could well submit anyone he steps inside the Octagon with. Then you have Nate, whom really is a different fighter today than he was when he last fought Anderson. I liken his loss to Silva to that of GSP's loss to Serra, in that both really did bring about astronomical changes in each fighter. So much so that the GSP and Nate Marquardt of today would utterly dismantle their past selves, and neither was all that bad to begin with. Then you have Wanderlei dropping down, Vitor and Akiyama making their way over, and the always dangerous Dan Henderson making a splash of his own. I'll never understand why Anderson is just now choosing to abandon the middleweight division.


----------



## The Dark Knight

Different types of strength here. Maia is predominantly a Ju Jitsu grappler which mostly utilises a lot of 'pulling muscles'. If you notice, his lats, triceps and rare delts are fairly big compared to the rest of his body. So if it goes to the ground, Maia is likely to be just as if not physically stronger than Marquart. 

Marquart on the other hand has MASSIVE pecs, quads and other parts of the body that require pushing movements. So in terms of wrestling from a stand up position, he'll defintely have the edge over Maia. I also think that he is better standup wise. But if Marquardt does wrestle Maia, it'll be to take him down to the ground, the deep blue sea..and Maia's the big fuckin' white shark in that world.


----------



## HeelHooker

TraMaI said:


> He looks a lot larger than I thought he was. I don't think Nate's size is that huge of an issue anymore. So hyped for this fight >.<


More like Marquardt's much shorter than I thought. :thumb03:


----------



## Biowza

Any opinions on Maia's jeans? They're backwards, but not...


----------



## Soojooko

He's so flex-able that he can walk with his bum pointing forward. Proper jujitsu that.


----------



## Halebop

Im disappointed with Marquardts choice to go clean cut. The fro and full beard have grown on me.


----------



## chuck fan (russ)

Halebop said:


> Yeah fellas I wanna see the pants off too! Maybe Dana can strip off his clothes too, huh? That'd be pretty cool. I coming from a strictly straight point of view here. Not interested in any homosexual nuances.


I mean also they could be rubbing oils on each other, all im saying is how can we know whose the better fighter if Demian and Nate aren't well oiled. It wouldnt hurt for Dana to be oiled as well, I mean in a strictly hetrosexual way. Damn homosexuals taking our jobs... wait no, not that... Women!..oh wait no, not that either... erm.. our brothers? 

Oh ok, *Thread Direction* is essential here finish strong Demian is a big fella isn't he? hehe, purely hetro statement.

I like many imagined him being a small middleweight and always considered Nate to be a big middleweight but its hard to get a real idea to how tall somebody is when they use there groundwork as much as Demian.


----------



## Emericanaddict

Coudlnt agree more I miss dudes white man fro that thing was epic. The beard wasn't bad either.


----------



## Halebop

:innocent01:



















(LOL That blonde ring girl looks like she's really into Nate's personality)


----------



## Davisty69

Wow, Maia is soooo much bigger than Marquardt... HAHAHAHAHA.


----------



## SideWays222

Hahahahahhahaa Man Demian Maia Looks Hugeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## KryptoNITE^^

Halebop said:


> :innocent01:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (LOL That blonde ring girl looks like she's really into Nate's personality)


The blonde girl wants Nate the Great's cherry. 

LOL @ how 'huge' Maia is. Laughable.


----------



## Halebop

KryptoNITE^^ said:


> The blonde girl wants Nate the Great's cherry.
> 
> LOL @ how 'huge' Maia is. Laughable.


Seriously, Ive been trying to figure this shit out for 29 years. Starting tomorrow, Mr. Halebop is showing off alot more asshole cleavage!:thumb02:


----------



## HexRei

demian is also not he-man flexing in that pic. it's like how for those diet ads, they make the person look sad, slump their shoulders, etc in the "before" pic, then have them stand up straight and flex and look alert in the "after". maia just looks like he doesn't give a shit about showing off. 

of course, he is carrying more bodyfat than marquartd, and a little less muscle. that's fine, hope marquartds low BMI and weight training program makes up for the ground game disparity 

i dunno, i still feel like this will be an EASY 260k for me.


----------



## Biowza

lol....


----------



## HexRei

why doncha put your 73 credits where your mouth is, lolmaster?


----------



## Biowza

I actually am 51% certain that Maia will sub Marquardt thank you very much.


----------



## SimplyNate

Marquardt all the way!

I don't see Marquardt getting into a position where he will be subbed. Can Maia even take him down? I can't see that happening. Marquardt by TKO!


----------



## HexRei

SimplyNate said:


> Marquardt all the way!
> 
> I don't see Marquardt getting into a position where he will be subbed. Can Maia even take him down? I can't see that happening. Marquardt by TKO!


Well according to Nate, he would beat Maia in a grappling contest so maybe he'll try to test Demian on the ground


----------



## SimplyNate

I really hope he is kidding. Otherwise I'd have to change my vote. Maia is on another level as far as BJJ goes.


----------



## KryptoNITE^^

HexRei said:


> Well according to Nate, he would beat Maia in a grappling contest so *maybe he'll try to test Demian on the ground *


Possibly Greg Jackson's amazing gameplan for Nate tomorrow night.

To see more of his excellent strategies and coaching watch Rashad vs. Lyoto or Garcia vs. Brown.

He should be in the hall of fame.


----------



## TraMaI

Stop trolling Kryp. Jackson had a good plan for Lyoto, it was Rashads bullheadedness that lost him that fight. He decided it'd be the most badass thing ever to try and taunt Lyoto and got ******* wrecked for it


----------



## diablo5597

KryptoNITE^^ said:


> Possibly Greg Jackson's amazing gameplan for Nate tomorrow night.
> 
> To see more of his excellent strategies and coaching watch Rashad vs. Lyoto or Garcia vs. Brown.
> 
> He should be in the hall of fame.


 Omg I love your posts. They are so funny.


----------



## KryptoNITE^^

TraMaI said:


> Stop trolling Kryp. Jackson had a good plan for Lyoto, it was Rashads bullheadedness that lost him that fight. He decided it'd be the most badass thing ever to try and taunt Lyoto and got ******* wrecked for it


Standing with Lyoto as a gameplan is absurd. Even Rashad said he had no idea what the hell he was doing in there. 

If he mixed up his wrestling with some elusiveless MAYBE he could've won.

I was surprised Rashad didn't go for any td.


----------



## HexRei

i read an interview with Marquardt's trainers and they said that their gameplan was all standup. Nate made his comment about grappling at another time, it seems. It's probably just to throw silva off the trail.


----------



## SimplyNate

I see Nate picking him up and throwing him over the top of the octagon and fighting him in the stands. That way he can't get a point deduction for grabbing the fence.


----------



## hellholming

not hard to see who the stronger man is.

and Wandy just looks plain weird.


----------



## Soojooko

hellholming said:


> not hard to see who the stronger man is.
> 
> and Wandy just looks plain weird.


True. But I'm still surprised. I really thought Nate would dwarf Maia in terms of 'chunkyness' but it's actually a lot closer than that. Obviously, Maias previous opponents have been bigger than I thought.


----------



## hellholming

I know what you mean, I also was suprised how tall Maia is.


----------



## Halebop

I'm rooting for Marquardt because I always am and always will be and Ive had some fun about the size difference but I don't look at that and think "OH ITS IN THE BAG"

I am not looking past Maia tonight at all to be honest. The size matters most if you are thinking Nate can use it to pull out of submissions and honestly I don't even want to see him get in a position where he has to think about that coz he might be asleep before he knows it. 

Size aside, I hope Nates superior standup wins this.


----------



## ptownsnwbrdr

Soojooko said:


> True. But I'm still surprised. I really thought Nate would dwarf Maia in terms of 'chunkyness' but it's actually a lot closer than that. Obviously, Maias previous opponents have been bigger than I thought.


Well, in all fairness Nate has probably cut 10-15 lbs of water, most of which is stored in the muscles. After he is rehydrated, the size difference will be more pronounced.


----------



## khoveraki

I'm just worried about Nate doing something dirty that rocks Maia. Like a hard knee to the head when Maia's on the ground, or an eye poke when he goes for a RNC.

Marquardt's cockiness will probably kill him in this fight though. He said he'd win a straight-grappling match with Maia? That's like saying I would win a wrestling match with Lesnar. Maia's easily top 5 BJJ practitioner in the world. In a grappling match Maia vs BJ, Maia vs. Nog, Maia vs. anyone in the UFC, I'm pretty inclined to give it to Maia.


Although the sound of Maia vs. BJ is making me really excited all of a sudden. BJ weighed in at 191 vs Lyoto, and I don't think Maia cuts a lot of weight. Grappling match of the century.


----------



## box

Theres not that much of a difference, and with Demians sub skills, its gonna be a tough fight for Nate.


----------



## Halebop

box said:


> Theres not that much of a difference, and with Demians sub skills, its gonna be a tough fight for Nate.


LOL hell in that picture Dana looks bigger then both of them! There is a big difference in size in this fight, c'mon. Maia is still very dangerous, though.


----------



## Belfort

I don't think you can base a size difference by weigh-in video/photo you don't truely know how dehydrated each fighter is but i can tell you Nate is one of THE biggest 185'ers going around the guy is just plain ripped!
Will his size and strength advantage win him the fight? who know but i am pumped to see it!!


----------



## hellholming

Belfort said:


> I don't think you can base a size difference by weigh-in video/photo you don't truely know how dehydrated each fighter is


well, in any way Nate probably cuts more than Maia. And he still looked bigger, so....


----------



## Belfort

yeah i know but the thread title is "Demian looks much biggerr than I thought he'd be" which i tend to agree with but as i said come fight night i think the size difference will be alot more obvious...
so basically you're agreeing with what i'm saying? :confused02:


----------



## hellholming

yes...  I'm drunk so I didn't probably read well enough what you said.


----------



## DahStoryTella

want maia to win, but can't see him getting past marquartd's striking and can't see him taking him down.


----------



## KryptoNITE^^

So being bigger than your opponent = winning the fight?

Thanks Brock.


----------



## khoveraki

Every keeps saying they can't picture Marquardt being taken down. Keep in mind guys, Maia is a master at pulling guard within clinching-range. He doesn't need to take someone down in a conventional matter, although he is very good at that as well. 

I just wish he'd get over this "I want to end the fight without being hurt or hurting my opponents" thing. C'mon Maia, get in there and rock house and murder someone! 


Seriously though I see this ending by a blood choke specifically. Somewhere near the middle of round 2 when Marquardt is more tired and Maia pulls guard.


----------



## Xerxes

No personal attacks guys, stay on topic.


----------



## Pound&Mound

I see Maia knocking out Nate with a round house kick in round 1. :thumb02:


----------



## TraMaI

*The UFC should try and work out Cain/Carwin*

So with Lesnar out of 106 and Cain having taken very, very little damage (if any) in his fight against Rothwell at 104, I think the UFC should try and see if they can get this fight to go. I know it's really short notice for both of them, but up until probably three days ago Cain was training and in top physical condition, Carwin is still training, but for a different opponent. Think the UFC can make it happen?


----------



## amoosenamedhank

I wouldn't mind seeing it because to be honest with you... I think Cain is over rated and his house of cards will come crumbling down when he meets another wrestler

There really isn't any benefit for Carwin, the best case scenario, his situation doesn't change and stays where he is ... or worst case, he could loose his title shot just because he didn't want to wait a month or two.


----------



## jasvll

Seems a little short-sighted. There isn't a long line of contenders for the HW title. Why shorten it?


----------



## DrHouse

jasvll said:


> Seems a little short-sighted. There isn't a long line of contenders for the HW title. Why shorten it?


There's a longer line of HW contenders than in any other division.


----------



## xeberus

I think it would be a bad fight for cain. Carwin has been undoubtedly training to fight a big powerful wrestler, and as he himself is a wrestler I see him KOing cain in the 1st especially since cain is smaller and not as well prepared for such a fight.

I would love to see it however.


----------



## amoosenamedhank

xeberus said:


> I think it would be a bad fight for cain. Carwin has been undoubtedly training to fight a big powerful wrestler, and as he himself is a wrestler I see him KOing cain in the 1st especially since cain is smaller and not as well prepared for such a fight.
> 
> I would love to see it however.


My thought is Cain would get knocked out immediately... Cain damn near got knocked out 3 times by Congo... if Congo could even stop a take attempt of a 10 year old girl, that fight would have gone completely different.

Moral of the story... Cain doesn't have the stand up to compete here. He either gets caught right away or he starts to get rocked, tries to take the fight to the ground... get's blocked... then KTFO!


----------



## TraMaI

amoosenamedhank said:


> I wouldn't mind seeing it because to be honest with you... I think Cain is over rated and his house of cards will come crumbling down when he meets another wrestler
> 
> There really isn't any benefit for Carwin, the best case scenario, his situation doesn't change and stays where he is ... or worst case, he could loose his title shot just because he didn't want to wait a month or two.


Well, look at it this way, they could approach Carwin with the fight and ask him to see how he wants to do it because for Carwin, it's either don't fight and get no money, but retain your title shot or risk that shot and get paid. If he doesn't get another fight he's out of probably over 100k, so we might just get to see how confident Shane is if he's willing to risk it on such a game competitor.




> My thought is Cain would get knocked out immediately... Cain damn near got knocked out 3 times by Congo... if Congo could even stop a take attempt of a 10 year old girl, that fight would have gone completely different.


you forgot the part about Cain never hitting the ground after getting caught. Sure, it rocked him and buckled his knees, but he was recovered before he even had time to hit the floor. Also, Kongo probably hits harder than anyone in that division outside of Brock and is probably about the same power wise as Carwin, except that his hands are faster. Cain has a much better chin than people are giving him credit for, Kongo is a beast of a man and Cain took one dead on the button from him and didn't even hit the ground before getting his wits back enough to take him down.


----------



## Carlitoz3

Wouldn't really be fair for Cain.
Cain didn't get much out of his recent fight.
He needs to fight another guy to finally have a title shot?
The winner of Brock vs Shane would have been perfect for Cain. UFC needs a new main event.


----------



## amoosenamedhank

TraMaI said:


> Well, look at it this way, they could approach Carwin with the fight and ask him to see how he wants to do it because for Carwin, it's either don't fight and get no money, but retain your title shot or risk that shot and get paid. If he doesn't get another fight he's out of probably over 100k, so we might just get to see how confident Shane is if he's willing to risk it on such a game competitor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you forgot the part about Cain never hitting the ground after getting caught. Sure, it rocked him and buckled his knees, but he was recovered before he even had time to hit the floor. Also, Kongo probably hits harder than anyone in that division outside of Brock and is probably about the same power wise as Carwin, except that his hands are faster. Cain has a much better chin than people are giving him credit for, Kongo is a beast of a man and Cain took one dead on the button from him and didn't even hit the ground before getting his wits back enough to take him down.


Well I think that's the beauty for Carwin.. the money is nice but he's got a job... this is just a hobby for him.

Kongo (now that I'm spelling that right) does have amazing stand up and is no doubt a powerful guy but each time after he rocked Cain (although he didn't hit the mat) Cain just basically lunged at him (still rocked IMO) and Kongo just fell over. Which gave him plenty of time to recover. 

I'm not saying the guy has a glass jaw... I'm just saying his stand up doesn't appear to be on par with someone like Kongo.


----------



## Soojooko

Right now, Cain has the better record that's for sure.

I think I would rather see Cain vs Lesnar rather than Carwin. I will put all cards on the table right now and say Cain will beat Carwin. I'm convinced of it.


----------



## amoosenamedhank

Soojooko said:


> Right now, Cain has the better record that's for sure.
> 
> I think I would rather see Cain vs Lesnar rather than Carwin. I will put all cards on the table right now and say Cain will beat Carwin. I'm convinced of it.


I personally don't think Carwin is a good match up for Cain. For the Cain fights I have seen, he tries the stand up but always reverts to the takedown/GnP (especially if he's in trouble). 

Which is fine, but 2 points to consider. 

First, Carwin is a big damn dude with a solid wrestle background. Cain is not use to not being able to take people down at will, and further more just hold them there once he does take them down.

Second, Carwin is a big damn dude and he might not get the chance to even go for a take down if he gets caught with one of those lunch pales.


----------



## TraMaI

I think it's more than a hobby for him at this point, he was suppose dot fight for the belt. If he's still taking it as a side job then he's in for a long road and probably will never hold a belt for a long amount of time. And regardless of if he has a job or not, his job isn't going to net him $100,000 in a single day. 

As for the Kongo thing, I totally agree that Cain was still rocked, but my point stands that he was aware enough to come back for that takedown and not even hit the ground. Also, Carwin's stand up isn't on par with someone like Kongo either, he just hits like a damn truck. Remember, Gonzaga rocked him, too.


----------



## amoosenamedhank

TraMaI said:


> I think it's more than a hobby for him at this point, he was suppose dot fight for the belt. If he's still taking it as a side job then he's in for a long road and probably will never hold a belt for a long amount of time. And regardless of if he has a job or not, his job isn't going to net him $100,000 in a single day.
> 
> As for the Kongo thing, I totally agree that Cain was still rocked, but my point stands that he was aware enough to come back for that takedown and not even hit the ground. Also, Carwin's stand up isn't on par with someone like Kongo either, he just hits like a damn truck. Remember, Gonzaga rocked him, too.


Yeah, let's not lie to anyone, $100k would be sweet no matter who you are. But my thought process on this is; if he's doing it for a hobby, just because he likes the competition, as sickening as it is to the rest of us, the belt might mean more to him.


----------



## jasvll

DrHouse said:


> There's a longer line of HW contenders than in any other division.


 I disagree.


----------



## Soojooko

amoosenamedhank said:


> I personally don't think Carwin is a good match up for Cain. For the Cain fights I have seen, he tries the stand up but always reverts to the takedown/GnP (especially if he's in trouble).
> 
> Which is fine, but 2 points to consider.
> 
> First, Carwin is a big damn dude with a solid wrestle background. Cain is not use to not being able to take people down at will, and further more just hold them there once he does take them down.
> 
> Second, Carwin is a big damn dude and he might not get the chance to even go for a take down if he gets caught with one of those lunch pales.


There were comments on how much better Ben is on the ground comapred to Kongo and yet Cain made him look even worse! Rothwell is a big dude and Cain was throwing him around. Every leg got hold of resulted in a takedown of a much bigger man. 100% success. I was mighty impressed. This shows incredible strength and is one of the reasons I'm convinced. Yes, Carwin is strong and has the big Muscles but apart from a knock out punch, I've seen no evidence that he's stronger or faster or has better cardio than Cain. After saturday I'm convinced Cain will maul him.


----------



## Kang-War

ill prefer to see a Dos Santos Vs Cain


----------



## xeberus

TraMaI said:


> you forgot the part about Cain never hitting the ground after getting caught. Sure, it rocked him and buckled his knees, but he was recovered before he even had time to hit the floor. Also, *Kongo probably hits harder than anyone in that division outside of Brock* and is probably about the same power wise as Carwin, except that his hands are faster. Cain has a much better chin than people are giving him credit for, Kongo is a beast of a man and Cain took one dead on the button from him and didn't even hit the ground before getting his wits back enough to take him down.


I think not only does carwin have a harder punch than kongo but also lesnar, I think he is the hardest hitter in the UFC. Its the light punches he's hit guys with and KOed them like nothing, kongo on the other hand has never KOed anyone with a single punch while carwin has done this 3 times with straight short punches.


----------



## The505Butcher

Kongo is a good striker, Carwin is a good one hit KO Wrestler. Rothwell is not nearly as strong as Carwin and has pretty much no ground game compared to Carwin. Kongo is better against pure strikers than Carwin. But in MMA Carwin is better IMO. 

Cain v. Carwin would be entertaining but only if it had been before Carwin was offered a title fight. He is not going to back down to risk his fight for the belt unless they force him to which they won't. If it were to happen Carwin would probably keep it standing and eventually land a lunck box on the chin and it would be llights out. If Cain could get him to the ground i think he would tire out trying to keep him there because Gonzaga who is bigger and known for his BJJ top game could not even keep him down. If Cain won the fight yeah it would all be good but if Carwin won what does that mean? he is back right where he was before? There is no real victory for Carwin. Especially since he can fight Cain after he won the belt or if he does not get it and get back into contention.

I agree with an earlier post and would rather watch a Cain Dos Santos fight.


----------



## DrHouse

jasvll said:


> I disagree.


Explain, HW division has 4 fighters at the title shot or 1 win away (Velasquez, Nog, JDS and Carwin). At LHW unless Shogun wins the rematch or Rampage returns who's going to fight Machida next, the guy has already beaten Rashad and Thiago, winner of Cane/Nog might be a possibility. At MW is pretty much Belfort and Marquardt but Silva has already beaten Marquardt. At WW, you could say Koscheck but GSP already beat him and maybe Swick but if he loses to Hardy then that's gone. At LW, it's pretty much Diego Sanchez.


----------



## jasvll

DrHouse said:


> Explain,


 Needed you to first. 



> HW division has 4 fighters at the title shot or 1 win away (Velasquez, Nog, JDS and Carwin).


Dos Santos is a few more than 1 away, and you'll need to take away another one, if this fight happens, which was my concern. I'll give you Nogueira, even though he's only had 1 win since his last loss. This leaves us with 2 heavyweight title contenders as opposed to 3, which again, seems short-sighted.



> At LHW unless Shogun wins the rematch or Rampage returns who's going to fight Machida next, the guy has already beaten Rashad and Thiago, winner of Cane/Nog might be a possibility. At MW is pretty much Belfort and Marquardt but Silva has already beaten Marquardt. At WW, you could say Koscheck but GSP already beat him and maybe Swick but if he loses to Hardy then that's gone. At LW, it's pretty much Diego Sanchez.


 At best, the HW division is on par with the others, the key difference being that HW is the hardest of all weight classes to replenish. Again, it seems short-sighted to have the top guy, who already has his shot, face the next guy in line just because there's a short delay with the champion.


----------



## attention

xeberus said:


> I think not only does carwin have a harder punch than kongo but also lesnar, I think he is the hardest hitter in the UFC. Its the light punches he's hit guys with and KOed them like nothing, kongo on the other hand has never KOed anyone with a single punch while carwin has done this 3 times with straight short punches.


IMHO, I think they all have more than enuf power to get the KO with a single punch... but its whether or not they have the technique/skill/luck to land that shot in the right place to get it.

At the level of power these HW deal out, IMHO the difference is whether or not the punch lands in a critical location... so its not so much power as it is location, location, location... 

ie. a glancing blow on the chin might take an opponent out, while a flush blow landed to the forehead might not.


----------



## DrHouse

> Dos Santos is a few more than 1 away, and you'll need to take away another one, if this fight happens, which was my concern. I'll give you Nogueira, even though he's only had 1 win since his last loss. This leaves us with 2 heavyweight title contenders as opposed to 3, which again, seems short-sighted.


I'd like to think JDS is only one fight away, and I don't think he'd have to beat one of the others to get that shot, I think if he beat Gonzaga at 108 or whenever they are supposed to fight he gets a title shot. Look at Carwin, Gonzaga was his only notable win and he got the shot, so JDS with Werdum, Cro Cop, Gonzaga and to some extent Struve is deserved. When I name those HW's, those are the HW's that I think DW will give title shots to not necessarily the ones I believe deserve them, I mean Carwin got one for being really big.



> At best, the HW division is on par with the others, the key difference being that HW is the hardest of all weight classes to replenish. Again, it seems short-sighted to have the top guy, who already has his shot, face the next guy in line just because there's a short delay with the champion.


My problem is that in the other divisions the champions have pretty much gone through there divisions and have few challengers left. Anderson Silva has 3 fights left, I really don't want to see him fight Marquardt or Henderson for a second time.


----------



## jasvll

DrHouse said:


> I'd like to think JDS is only one fight away, and I don't think he'd have to beat one of the others to get that shot, I think if he beat Gonzaga at 108 or whenever they are supposed to fight he gets a title shot. Look at Carwin, Gonzaga was his only notable win and he got the shot, so JDS with Werdum, Cro Cop, Gonzaga and to some extent Struve is deserved. When I name those HW's, those are the HW's that I think DW will give title shots to not necessarily the ones I believe deserve them, I mean Carwin got one for being really big.


 Doesn't this make my point?



> My problem is that in the other divisions the champions have pretty much gone through there divisions and have few challengers left. Anderson Silva has 3 fights left, I really don't want to see him fight Marquardt or Henderson for a second time.


 I agree, but I don't think it's a problem that can be helped or solved by cannibalizing HW contenders. I'd rather wait a little bit and see more HW title fights than have an unnecessary contender fight now.


----------



## DrHouse

jasvll said:


> Doesn't this make my point?
> 
> I agree, but I don't think it's a problem that can be helped or solved by cannibalizing HW contenders. I'd rather wait a little bit and see more HW title fights than have an unnecessary contender fight now.


I'm not sure what point you mean.

But then who does the Champ fight?


----------



## streetpunk08

I would like to see the fight personally but I dunno if the UFC should make it happen yet, it all depends on how long Brock is gonna be sidelined. It wasn't a physical injury it was an illness so if the Carwin/Lesnar match only gets pushed back until say December obviously Carwin is gonna want that fight, not to mention the UFC has already marketed that fight. I do wanna see Cain v Carwin and I'm sure we will at some point.


----------



## jasvll

DrHouse said:


> I'm not sure what point you mean.


 Why do you think HW fighters go from newcomers to contenders so quickly and can stay in contention even after losing? 



> But then who does the Champ fight?


He can't fight right now. Isn't that inspiration for the thread? Maybe I just don't understand the question.


----------



## DrHouse

jasvll said:


> Why do you think HW fighters go from newcomers to contenders so quickly and can stay in contention even after losing?
> 
> 
> He can't fight right now. Isn't that inspiration for the thread? Maybe I just don't understand the question.


Because the HW division in terms of quality isn't THAT great, but since they're all around the same level it allows for more realistic title fights.

I don't mean champ as in just Brock, I mean in general. If there are just title eliminators all the time who is the champion going fight. The champions is probably going to fight 3 or 4 times a year, he has to fight someone.


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## Seperator88

No this doesn't make sense at all, you can't give a guy a title shot then take it away from him like that, unless his name is dan henderson, and no fighter fights twice in two months, not in the ufc at least. I doubt cain would accept, it would be a big deal to lose and he would blame it on not having time to prepare,

I would rather just see them postpone the whole fight


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## GMK13

i would like to see cain/carwin but im 99% sure dana is giving the winner of the carwin /lesnar fight to cain. it doesnt really matter to me though.


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## jasvll

DrHouse said:


> Because the HW division in terms of quality isn't THAT great, but since they're all around the same level it allows for more realistic title fights.


 Unless you have them fight each other instead of for the belt. Then you create problems for the division.



> I don't mean champ as in just Brock, I mean in general. If there are just title eliminators all the time who is the champion going fight. The champions is probably going to fight 3 or 4 times a year, he has to fight someone.


Then why do you want to see the two top contenders fight each other instead of each getting a title shot?


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## callme1

cmon man, carwin wil destroy cain..he too big and too strong


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## DrHouse

jasvll said:


> Unless you have them fight each other instead of for the belt. Then you create problems for the division.
> 
> 
> Then why do you want to see the two top contenders fight each other instead of each getting a title shot?


Because title fights bring in more viewers, from Dana's perspective that's what is important. But they are fighting eachother just not every single guy out there. Like Cain and Shane became contenders without ever fighting eachother, the winner of their fight was gonna fight Brock. I do feel they need to narrow it down a little . But if you were to say hold a tournament or something and have them all fight it just cancels out everyone. Like say they had a 4 fighter grand prix, JDS, Nog, Carwin and Cain, whoever wins and fights Brock say they lose then the other 3 have no right to a title shot for a while.

So what I'm saying is that, yeah they need to some extent fight other contenders out there but if they all fight eachother then the champ fights no one and you elminate so many contenders. I don't feel as though Shane deserved his shot yet and I do believe he got it because he matches up to Brock size-wise, he should have fought Cain first. But since he got the shot and was going to fight Brock at 106 bar the illness, I think it's unfair he should risk losing his title shot when he was already given it.


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## truebluefan

More discussion that is being restored.


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