# The one to beat Fedor might be...



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I know some might think I'm crazy... But... How would a Fedor vs Machida fight go? I mean, I personally believe Fedor is at the top in HW, and Machida will continue to be undefeated and roll through everyone at LHW.

Machida is fast, evasive, and very technical. Would Fedor be the one to figure out his style? I know Fedor is great and all, no questions on that, I just think it would be a very interesting matchup.


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## BrFighter07 (Jun 16, 2007)

to start off you are probably going to get flamed for this but ill just give you my opinion. It would be a good fight but fedor is a very smart fighter and I think if he couldnt win it on the feet he would take machida down easily and win


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I don't see why I would get flamed, It's a legitimate question. Both technical fighters, both smart, and no one has found any way to beat Machida. :dunno:


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## +Shogun+ (Aug 3, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> I know some might think I'm crazy... But... How would a Fedor vs Machida fight go? I mean, I personally believe Fedor is at the top in HW, and Machida will continue to be undefeated and roll through everyone at LHW.
> 
> Machida is fast, evasive, and very technical. Would Fedor be the one to figure out his style? I know Fedor is great and all, no questions on that, I just think it would be a very interesting matchup.


Machida doesn't "roll" through anyone, he lulls them to sleep. 

But in all seriousness, I think someone like Fedor, who is very aggressive and powerful, on top of being very well rounded and focused would "roll" through Machida.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Michael Carson said:


> I know some might think I'm crazy... But... How would a Fedor vs Machida fight go? I mean, I personally believe Fedor is at the top in HW, and Machida will continue to be undefeated and roll through everyone at LHW.
> 
> Machida is fast, evasive, and very technical. Would Fedor be the one to figure out his style? I know Fedor is great and all, no questions on that, I just think it would be a very interesting matchup.


No, it wouldn't be an interesting fight, and here's why:

Machida is not a world class kickboxer, and Fedor has torn apart two of the best kickboxers to come out of K-1 (CroCop and, in case you forgot, Semmy Schilt).

As evasive as Machida is, Fedor only needs to catch him with one shot, and Machida isn't big enough to do any serious damage to Fedor. I mean, Machida couldn't finish Tito, how can you expect him to finish the #1 heavyweight in the world?

Machida's jiu-jitsu is not nearly the best that Fedor's seen, and if he takes Lyoto down (which he very well could do) he'll smash him through the canvas.

Fedor is way too powerful for Lyoto, as good as Machida is. This would be a quick fight. Fedor knocked Sylvia on his ass and choked him out in under a minute. Lyoto isn't nearly as accomplished (or as much of an ogre) as Sylvia in terms of his standup.


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## vancitypimp (Apr 8, 2007)

Machida almost got submitted by Tito. When Fedor catches him he will either tap or have a ligament broked because Fedor doesnt **** around.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

It be very interesting to see! But if I were to guess what would happen then I would say Fedor by Knock Out or submission! Fedor is a very aggressive fighter. I don't see Lyoto shutting down Fedor's style and slowing him down to his pace.


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## +Shogun+ (Aug 3, 2007)

IronMan said:


> No, it wouldn't be an interesting fight, and here's why:
> 
> Machida is not a world class kickboxer, and Fedor has torn apart two of the best kickboxers to come out of K-1 (CroCop and, in case you forgot, Semmy Schilt).
> 
> ...


You do what I'm too lazy to do. :thumbsup:


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## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

I actually think Machida would have a chance with this. Fedor is a small HW and i'm sure this fight would take place at LHW. This would be better for Machida since he's used to fighting at 205 unlike Fedor.

As for the fight I think Fedor is too aggressive for Machida. Machida loves aggressive fighters because it makes it easier for him to counter their punches. If Fedor managed to get inside and take Machida down I think Machida could sweep him and either GnP or stand back up and continue to counter. I'd pick Machida by UD.


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## 70seven (Mar 5, 2007)

You know Fedor destroyed Tim Sylvia, a 6'8 268 lbs guy right? ok just checking.

MAchida is a talented fighter, but he out lasts his oponents, he's not a fight finisher. Machida executes a well thought out game plan and has a way to nullify his oponents style and game plan. 

Fedor destroys people, he seems untouchable and cant be hurt. Oh and he makes it all look easy. I find its an interesting thread, its not something that's been discussed before. But Fedor wins by a total f'kin domination.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Lyoto could cut to 185 he would get murdered by Fedor.

Fedor is bigger, stronger, and better on the ground.

On their feet I don't know who's better but it's close and Fedor isn't getting Knocked out by Lyoto.

To be honest at LHW Wanderlei would have a better chance than Lyoto since Wandy has power that if he lands a punch he can win Lyoto has no way IMO to beat Fedor.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

IronMan said:


> As evasive as Machida is, Fedor only needs to catch him with one shot, and Machida isn't big enough to do any serious damage to Fedor. I mean, Machida couldn't finish Tito, how can you expect him to finish the #1 heavyweight in the world?


You could say the same with Chuck or Rampage fighting Machida, yet many here believe Machida would beat both of them. Everyone has the "catch him with one shot" ability. As far as not finishing Fedor, he doesn't have to do serious damage and finish Fedor, the same way he didn't have to do serious damage and finish Tito. He can still win.

As far as Fedor being "way too powerful", read what I said about Chuck and 'Page again. I understand Fedor is somewhat fast, but is not totally known for his knockout power. Yes, he just knocked Sylvia down, but if you want to go by that, Randy knocked Tim down with 1 punch, Fedor needed what, 5-6? 

Can't believe how many people would ride Machida off, giving the fact that Fedor has faced the Arlovski, Couture, Nog, etc, type of fighters, and Machida would be a new test for him.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Fedor is stronger than anyone Machida has faced. And he's quick. I think that once Fedor gets his hands on Machida, it's done.


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## +Shogun+ (Aug 3, 2007)

mjbish23 said:


> I actually think Machida would have a chance with this. Fedor is a small HW and i'm sure this fight would take place at LHW. This would be better for Machida since he's used to fighting at 205 unlike Fedor.
> 
> As for the fight I think Fedor is too aggressive for Machida. Machida loves aggressive fighters because it makes it easier for him to counter their punches. If Fedor managed to get inside and take Machida down I think Machida could sweep him and either GnP or stand back up and continue to counter. I'd pick Machida by UD.


None of what you said makes any sense. First off, if the fight was to ever happen, it'd be at HW. Fedor said he'd never cut down, but it really wouldn't make a difference anyway I don't think. When have you ever seen Fedor swept and get GnP. Did you see Fedor's hands against Sylvia? There's no countering an onslaught like that. Also, what real aggressive fighter has Machida faced? I guess you could argue that Sokky is somewhat aggressive, but not as nearly brutal or talented as Fedor.

Fedor wins everything in this match-up. He's got better wrestling, submissions, striking, strength, speed in his hands.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

J.P. said:


> Fedor is stronger than anyone Machida has faced. And he's quick. I think that once Fedor gets his hands on Machida, it's done.


Yeah, I agree, Fedor is fast. Is he as fast as Machida? I don't think so. He's powerful, yes, but I can see Machida avoiding him, picking him apart from the outside. 

I don't see Machida finishing Fedor, but I can certainly see him pulling out a win through decision.

I hope everyone replying in this thread knows I am a fan of both, look at my favorite fighters list. I just don't see anyone beating either of these them, except maybe beating each other.


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## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

+Shogun+ said:


> None of what you said makes any sense. First off, if the fight was to ever happen, it'd be at HW. Fedor said he'd never cut down, but it really wouldn't make a difference anyway I don't think. When have you ever seen Fedor swept and get GnP. Did you see Fedor's hands against Sylvia? There's no countering an onslaught like that. Also, what real aggressive fighter has Machida faced? I guess you could argue that Sokky is somewhat aggressive, but not as nearly brutal or talented as Fedor.
> 
> Fedor wins everything in this match-up. He's got better wrestling, submissions, striking, strength, speed in his hands.


How do you know the fight would never happen at LHW. There is no way that Machida would be able to bulk up to HW. It would probably happen at a catchweight around 210 or 215 actually.

Ya Fedor was able to knock Tim down but Randy did that with one punch and other fighters have done it too. If you get hit just right on the button you're going down no matter what so it doesn't matter who hits you. Lyoto is so much faster then Tim that he would easily be able to avoid an onslaught like that. The onslaught wouldn't even happen though because Machida would never let Fedor get in close enough to hit him that many times.

Machida hasn't faced a really aggressive fighter yet but based on Machida's style an aggressive fighter would play right into his plans. I agree with you that Fedor has better wrestling, submissions, and strength but he is not a better striker and i'm not so sure that he has more speed in his hands either. Machida has to be a great striker and fast to be able to be so successful as a counter puncher. If they fought he would just stay on the outside and pick Fedor off, tiring him out and frustrating him. Fedor isn't the god everyone thinks he is. He is beatable.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Michael Carson said:


> You could say the same with Chuck or Rampage fighting Machida, yet many here believe Machida would beat both of them. Everyone has the "catch him with one shot" ability. As far as not finishing Fedor, he doesn't have to do serious damage and finish Fedor, the same way he didn't have to do serious damage and finish Tito. He can still win.
> 
> As far as Fedor being "way too powerful", read what I said about Chuck and 'Page again. I understand Fedor is somewhat fast, but is not totally known for his knockout power. Yes, he just knocked Sylvia down, but if you want to go by that, Randy knocked Tim down with 1 punch, Fedor needed what, 5-6?
> 
> Can't believe how many people would ride Machida off, giving the fact that Fedor has faced the Arlovski, Couture, Nog, etc, type of fighters, and Machida would be a new test for him.


You don't understand what I'm talking about.

Yes, it's the same thing that people say about Chuck and Rampage, but it's on a totally different level. You're minimizing how good Fedor is at this.

Chuck and Rampage are more powerful than Lyoto, but that power difference is trivial compared to Fedor. Rampage and Chuck are powerful fighters, but neither of them would have phased Tim Sylvia. Fedor put Big Tim, an accomplished, world class striker, in the fetal position.

I don't think that we saw Tim in his prime, but this Tim Sylvia almost beat Noguiera (dominated him for ten minutes before getting caught) and fended off Randy Couture from the finish. This Tim Sylvia would smash Lyoto sheerly on the basis of his size. The fact that Fedor could pack in a win like that the way that he did is beyond anything Lyoto is capable of.

This has already been pointed out, but Lyoto outlasts his opponents. He fights off of his back foot and he works around his opponents. Fedor is not a fighter you can do that to. Fedor will come forward forever, he will take the punishment and he will catch Machida, either with a punch or put him in the clinch and decimate him on the ground.


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## +Shogun+ (Aug 3, 2007)

mjbish23 said:


> How do you know the fight would never happen at LHW. There is no way that Machida would be able to bulk up to HW. It would probably happen at a catchweight around 210 or 215 actually.
> 
> Ya Fedor was able to knock Tim down but Randy did that with one punch and other fighters have done it too. If you get hit just right on the button you're going down no matter what so it doesn't matter who hits you. Lyoto is so much faster then Tim that he would easily be able to avoid an onslaught like that. The onslaught wouldn't even happen though because Machida would never let Fedor get in close enough to hit him that many times.
> 
> Machida hasn't faced a really aggressive fighter yet but based on Machida's style an aggressive fighter would play right into his plans. I agree with you that Fedor has better wrestling, submissions, and strength but he is not a better striker and i'm not so sure that he has more speed in his hands either. Machida has to be a great striker and fast to be able to be so successful as a counter puncher. If they fought he would just stay on the outside and pick Fedor off, tiring him out and frustrating him. Fedor isn't the god everyone thinks he is. He is beatable.


Machida really isn't THAT fast, I think you're overestimating his speed. He's just defensive most of the time and looks to dodge, dip, duck, dive and dodge. It's really hard to chase someone in a fight. You're not staying on the outside and picking Fedor apart, it doesn't happen, he's way to explosive. And when have you seen him gas OR get frustrated?

As for him being an unbeatable god, in the realm of MMA, he very well could be, cuts aside.

EDIT: I wish I could rep. you more IronMan.


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## Nikkolai (Jan 7, 2008)

So, this fight would be basically a sparring session if Lyoto were to just stay away from Fedor.


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## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

+Shogun+ said:


> Machida really isn't THAT fast, I think you're overestimating his speed. He's just defensive most of the time and looks to dodge, dip, duck, dive and dodge. It's really hard to chase someone in a fight. You're not staying on the outside and picking Fedor apart, it doesn't happen, he's way to explosive. And when have you seen him gas OR get frustrated?


Machida is pretty damn fast. He has great head and body movement. I think he really could avoid Fedor. Even if Fedor were to rush in, which he wouldnt do anyway because he doesnt just rush in, Machida would just side step him and counter. I think you're underestimating Lyoto's striking.



> As for him being an unbeatable god, in the realm of MMA, he very well could be, cuts aside.
> 
> EDIT: I wish I could rep. you more IronMan.


Fedor will lose eventually. I guarantee it. There is always someone better then you and Fedor will eventually meet that person.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Fedor will defiantly lose at some point but I highly doubt Machida is that guy.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

IronMan said:


> You don't understand what I'm talking about.
> 
> Yes, it's the same thing that people say about Chuck and Rampage, but it's on a totally different level. You're minimizing how good Fedor is at this.
> 
> ...


Who says Chuck or 'Page couldn't do that to Sylvia? Randy did with 1 punch. You are saying Randy hits harder than Chuck or 'Page? I understand Randy didn't knock Sylvia out with that punch, but he put Sylvia on the floor, which took Fedor more than 1 punch to do.

I agree that Machida would have major problems with a huge guy like Tim, but he's not fighting a huge guy like Tim, he's fighting a small HW in Fedor.

As far as Fedor coming forward forever, what says Machida won't avoid him and pick him apart from the outside forever? I see him being a little faster than Fedor, after all.


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## Cartheron (Sep 5, 2007)

This fight would not happen at catchweight. It wouldn't happen at all. The Fedor vs lower weights crap needs to stop. Fedor isn't moving down, ever. Why does Fedor need to fight people at lower weights? To prove himself? lol 

Look at his record. There is your proof. For whatever you want.


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## Robopencil (Feb 7, 2007)

Fedor could beat him on the ground, but I think he would finish it on the feet. I don't think Machida could withstand the pressure that Fedor would put on him. Fedor is so relentless, and hits so hard, eventually I think he would catch Machida.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Michael Carson said:


> Who says Chuck or 'Page couldn't do that to Sylvia? Randy did with 1 punch. You are saying Randy hits harder than Chuck or 'Page? I understand Randy didn't knock Sylvia out with that punch, but he put Sylvia on the floor, which took Fedor more than 1 punch to do.


Randy didn't debilitate Sylvia. He didn't put him out. He didn't finish him. These are basic facts.

I'm not going to deny that Randy has alot of power, and that landed a great right hand that put him down, but he didn't do to Sylvia what Fedor did. In fact, Sylvia acknowledged in a post fight interview that he has never been hit that hard *ever.*

Watch that fight with Sylvia again (I have the whole even recorded). Sylvia went fetal after that shot from Fedor. Randy hit him with a great shot, but it wasn't the same at all.



> I agree that Machida would have major problems with a huge guy like Tim, but he's not fighting a huge guy like Tim, he's fighting a small HW in Fedor.


You're missing the point here.

Fedor is used to fighting opponents who have 50 pounds on him, opponents like Sylvia.

Machida doesn't have the power to stop any of the guys that Fedor has fought. More importantly, though, Machida doesn't have the power to phase Fedor because CroCop and Schilt (the guys I originally pointed to) didn't have the power to phase Fedor, and they're better strikers than Lyoto.

The problem is not that Lyoto doesn't match up well with Sylvia. It's that he doesn't have the capacity to beat heavyweight strikers.



> As far as Fedor coming forward forever, what says Machida won't avoid him and pick him apart from the outside forever? I see him being a little faster than Fedor, after all.


You understand that people said the same things about CroCop. He was supposed to work around and damage Fedor with his powerful counter strikes as Fedor moved endlessly forward.

What's Machida going to do? Run away for three rounds

If he does, he may very well lose a boring fight on the judges scorecards. My point is that Machida doesn't have the power, and I've said this already in this post, to phase Fedor, and so he's got no way to win.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

mjbish23 said:


> Fedor will lose eventually. I guarantee it. There is always someone better then you and Fedor will eventually meet that person.


Okay, apart from the logical fallacy in this statement (you should have said "there is always someone who can beat you," which is the Tunney factor), this is the argument I hear all the time.

That fine. Fedor will eventually lose. Every top fighter does, and every fighter we see as invincible always does. (except for Rickson Gracie, but that's because he left the sport, and I don't think Fedor will)

The fact is, we're talking about names and matchups, so let's stick with the analysis, not sweeping statements.


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## +Shogun+ (Aug 3, 2007)

mjbish23 said:


> Machida is pretty damn fast. He has great head and body movement. I think he really could avoid Fedor. Even if Fedor were to rush in, which he wouldnt do anyway because he doesnt just rush in, Machida would just side step him and counter. I think you're underestimating Lyoto's striking.
> 
> 
> 
> Fedor will lose eventually. I guarantee it. There is always someone better then you and Fedor will eventually meet that person.


If they clone him and enhance his genetic makeup, humans begin reproducing a-sexually and Fedor trains his offspring at birth, the offspring has accelerated growth or Fedor has a twin that we don't know about, a Russian government secret that has been training like Ivan Drago of Rocky for years.

Kidding, but in seriousness, I think Machida has 25% or less chance of winning this fight. IMO Machida is tailor made to LOSE to Fedor.

Also, it's very possible to retire undefeated. Look at Rocky Marciano. Fedor could be the one in MMA to do what Marciano did in Boxing.


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## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

+Shogun+ said:


> If they clone him and enhance his genetic makeup, humans begin reproducing a-sexually and Fedor trains his offspring at birth or Fedor has a twin that we don't know about, a Russian government secret that has been training like Ivan Drago of Rocky for years.
> 
> Kidding, but in seriousness, I think Machida has 25% or less chance of winning this fight. IMO Machida is tailor made to LOSE to Fedor.


It's that 25% that matters though. You still are admitting that Machida has a chance. 

How is Machida tailor made to lose to Fedor? When I think of someone who is made to lose to Fedor I think more of someone like Brock Lesnar who has poor striking and is just looking for the takedown. The second the fight hits the ground Fedor would lock in an armbar. To me a wrestler would be the type of fighter tailor made to lose to Fedor because he would probably have better striking then them and would have better submissions so even if he got taken down it wouldn't matter.


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## +Shogun+ (Aug 3, 2007)

mjbish23 said:


> It's that 25% that matters though. You still are admitting that Machida has a chance.
> 
> How is Machida tailor made to lose to Fedor? When I think of someone who is made to lose to Fedor I think more of someone like Brock Lesnar who has poor striking and is just looking for the takedown. The second the fight hits the ground Fedor would lock in an armbar. To me a wrestler would be the type of fighter tailor made to lose to Fedor because he would probably have better striking then them and would have better submissions so even if he got taken down it wouldn't matter.


It's MMA, I have a chance. But that chance is really really small.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

IronMan said:


> Randy didn't debilitate Sylvia. He didn't put him out. He didn't finish him. These are basic facts.
> 
> I'm not going to deny that Randy has alot of power, and that landed a great right hand that put him down, but he didn't do to Sylvia what Fedor did. In fact, Sylvia acknowledged in a post fight interview that he has never been hit that hard *ever.*
> 
> ...


I don't see Machida having the POWER to defeat almost anyone. If I was sitting here talking about Machida knocking fedor out and finishing him, I would understand the reason that you keep saying this.

Cro Cop was moving back, waiting to get off his kicks, which he could not do because of his style. Machida's style is much different, his striking is much different, he can avoid and counter, that's what he does, that's what makes him "boring" to people, it works, and works well. Machida is also faster than Cro Cop, and has a style no one can seem to figure out.

I can definitely see Fedor having problems getting to Machida, being countered, and losing a decision.

Oh, And, as far as the facts that Randy didn't "put Tim out", neither did Fedor, Tim was still awake and was defending his back half way decently until Fedor got the choke in.


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## +Shogun+ (Aug 3, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> I don't see Machida having the POWER to defeat almost anyone. If I was sitting here talking about Machida knocking fedor out and finishing him, I would understand the reason that you keep saying this.
> 
> Cro Cop was moving back, waiting to get off his kicks, which he could not do because of his style. Machida's style is much different, his striking is much different, he can avoid and counter, that's what he does, that's what makes him "boring" to people, it works, and works well. Machida is also faster than Cro Cop, and has a style no one can seem to figure out.
> 
> I can definitely see Fedor having problems getting to Machida, being countered, and losing a decision.


I think one of IronMan's points is that Machida IS going to have to come in and try to hit Fedor, running around the octagon or ring for 15 minutes with no offense isn't going to earn him a "W". As soon as Machida moves in, hes screwed IMO. I think he's screwed either way for the most part, but w/e.

As for Fedor having problems getting to Machida, being countered, and losing a decision, I don't see it at all.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Fedor would win hands down. I have doubted fedor for long enough. I never believed he was the best fighter in the world until this past weekend. He absolutely decimated a striker that gave Nog one of his toughest fights, beat Arvloski twice, and KO'd countless others. He didn't do it by taking him down and armbarring him either. He just did it with pure power and ability. Machida's famous back pedal/strike attack would not be fast enough for Fedor and hitting Fedor on your way backwards is not the ideal way to beat him. In fact, I have no idea how to beat him. Fujita is like the only guy to rock him. He scrambles way too fast at HW for anyone to win with a sub or g'n'p. Machida does not have the skills necessary to win. 

Maybe a Cain Velasquez while he is peaking and Fedor is declining could beat him, but not Machida, Chuck, or Rampage. In fact, no LHW around right now would be a threat to Fedor, and I am not a Fedor fan (just a guy in awe of greatness).


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## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

I'm not looking for a big confrontation but no matter what anyone says Michael, you are going to be stubborn and lopsided towards Machida regardless any comment made.
I think Machida is a great fighter and very frustrating to fight but he wouldn't be very awkward for Fedor to fight at all.
Fedor would get inside Machida before he even knew it and would either punch him to the mat or he would take him down with ease. This one is a no-brainer to me, Fedor with a quick stoppage. Not really fair to compare because Fedor isn't cutting weight and Machida isn't a HW, so they aren't even in the same weight class.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

+Shogun+ said:


> I think one of IronMan's points is that Machida IS going to have to come in and try to hit Fedor, running around the octagon or ring for 15 minutes with no offense isn't going to earn him a "W". As soon as Machida moves in, hes screwed IMO. I think he's screwed either way for the most part, but w/e.
> 
> As for Fedor having problems getting to Machida, being countered, and losing a decision, I don't see it at all.


I disagree. If you have ever seen Machida fight, you know he Doesn't have to get close and hit Fedor, he can hit him from the outside. 

As far as "15 minutes with no offense", do you remember 15 minutes with "no offense" with Tito, and the "W" that came with it?

I agree that Fedor is better than Tito, I mean, come on, but that doesn't stop the fact that Machida can definitely use this same tactic of moving, countering, and staying on the outside with his "no offense".


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Michael Carson said:


> I don't see Machida having the POWER to defeat almost anyone. If I was sitting here talking about Machida knocking fedor out and finishing him, I would understand the reason that you keep saying this.


You're missing the point.

It's not even just finishing. Obviously Machida is not going to finish Fedor.

The fact is, if Machida fights off of his back foot for 3 rounds, but doesn't look like he's doing any damage, the judges are not going to give him the fight.



> Cro Cop was moving back, waiting to get off his kicks, which he could not do because of his style. Machida's style is much different, his striking is much different, he can avoid and counter, that's what he does, that's what makes him "boring" to people, it works, and works well. Machida is also faster than Cro Cop, and has a style no one can seem to figure out.


Machida moves back and throws his kicks.

You make it sound like he's dodging and countering and Mirko doesn't do that.

I don't think Machida is boring, but I don't think that his striking is as magical as everyone seems to think it is. He's a great striker, but he's not K-1 champ.



> I can definitely see Fedor having problems getting to Machida, being countered, and losing a decision.


Fine. I don't.

I see Machida having problems getting smashed by a physically more powerful fighter who hits harder, has far more grappling ability, the best chin Machida has ever been confronted with and complete fearlessness when it comes to his offensive.



> Oh, And, as far as the facts that Randy didn't "put Tim out", neither did Fedor, Tim was still awake and was defending his back half way decently until Fedor got the choke in.


Again, I'll point to Tim's post fight interview, where he said that this was the hardest he had ever been hit.

He was defending that choke until he wasn't. A conscious person can defend that choke well, and Sylvia can and does when he's awake. He did it to Randy for almost an entire round.

If you think that Fedor sunk in a choke in under 15 seconds on a totally conscious, self-aware Tim Sylvia, that's your delusion.


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## Nikkolai (Jan 7, 2008)

Michael Carson said:


> I disagree. If you have ever seen Machida fight, you know he Doesn't have to get close and hit Fedor, he can hit him from the outside.
> 
> As far as "15 minutes with no offense", do you remember 15 minutes with "no offense" with Tito, and the "W" that came with it?
> 
> I agree that Fedor is better than Tito, I mean, come on, but that doesn't stop the fact that Machida can definitely use this same tactic of moving, countering, and staying on the outside with his "no offense".


Tito got close in the clinch but he was out wrestled. Not happening with Fedor.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

demoman993 said:


> I'm not looking for a big confrontation but no matter what anyone says Michael, you are going to be stubborn and lopsided towards Machida regardless any comment made.
> I think Machida is a great fighter and very frustrating to fight but he wouldn't be very awkward for Fedor to fight at all.
> Fedor would get inside Machida before he even knew it and would either punch him to the mat or he would take him down with ease. This one is a no-brainer to me, Fedor with a quick stoppage. Not really fair to compare because Fedor isn't cutting weight and Machida isn't a HW, so they aren't even in the same weight class.


No actual confrontation needed, friend. I personally have no problem with anyone here, or their opinions. 

I am not lopsided about Machida, I actually have Fedor above Machida on my favorite fighter list. With that said, however, I believe the thought that Machida has such a bad chance(which is what was/is being stated in this thread) is completely ridiculous.


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## +Shogun+ (Aug 3, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> I disagree. If you have ever seen Machida fight, you know he Doesn't have to get close and hit Fedor, he can hit him from the outside.
> 
> As far as "15 minutes with no offense", do you remember 15 minutes with "no offense" with Tito, and the "W" that came with it?
> 
> I agree that Fedor is better than Tito, I mean, come on, but that doesn't stop the fact that Machida can definitely use this same tactic of moving, countering, and staying on the outside with his "no offense".


Remember some of the shots landed by Tito? If Fedor lands anything, Machida is in trouble, if Fedor is close enough to land a shot, he's close enough for a takedown, and Machida is in trouble. Remember when Tito almost submitted Machida? Fedor won't almost submit him, he WILL submit him.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

+Shogun+ said:


> It's MMA, I have a chance. But that chance is really really small.


No, no you don't. 
In MMA, most people can lose at any given moment. It's an exaggeration to say anyone can beat anyone at any given moment. As an extreme example, Machida could never one punch KO Mark Hunt.

That being said, Fedor would easily beat Machida. I don't think it would be much of a challenge, besides the fact Fedor is better, he does have a definite size advantage.


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## +Shogun+ (Aug 3, 2007)

GMW said:


> No, no you don't.
> In MMA, most people can lose at any given moment. It's an exaggeration to say anyone can beat anyone at any given moment. As an extreme example, Machida could never one punch KO Mark Hunt.
> 
> That being said, Fedor would easily beat Machida. I don't think it would be much of a challenge, besides the fact Fedor is better, he does have a definite size advantage.


By chance, I meant like .01/2%. Kevin Burns style accidental eyepoke TKO.


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## js9234 (Apr 8, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> I don't see why I would get flamed, It's a legitimate question. Both technical fighters, both smart, and no one has found any way to beat Machida. :dunno:


Well, you may think it is a legitimate question but there are these hypothetical, legitimate questions everyday. I think Bruce Lee MIGHT be the one or Anderson Silva might be the one. These questions are getting ridiculous.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I won't quote you right now, Ironman, I am very tired and about to go to sleep, don't have the energy to filter the quote. Sorry if this causes any confusion towards my response here.

Machida doesn't have to do any real damage to score a W, so long as he is throwing, and landing strikes.

Cro Cop does counter, but the way he counters is different. Machida does throw kicks, yes, but his style is completely different. His timing, the way he counters, his movement, all of it. That is why no one can figure him out.

Yes, Fedor is definitely bigger, stronger, has better grappling. I believe it was Tito who also was supposed to have all of these. Again, I understand Fedor is HW, and is better than Tito, that's why Machida had such little problems with Tito. He could do the same to Fedor, just might have a few more problems than with Tito, but the same outcome.

Tim did say Fedor hit him the hardest, but he was still awake and still defending. I do agree Sylvia was less aware than when Randy hit him, but he was still there and still defending. I think it is less of a matter that Tim was less aware, and more of the fact that Fedor is better than Randy is on the ground.


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## DropKick (Apr 19, 2007)

I'm going to say there is a 0% chance that Machida could beat Fedor even on Fedors worst day. Fedor will out strike him, out grapple him and out wrestle him. Machida doesn't have the power to hurt Fedor or the skill to sub him. Fedor doesn't lose decisions either as he always imposes his will on his opponents. Even if Machida backs up the whole time and doesn't get finished he won't win a decision. Fedor has beaten much better strikers and grapplers than Machida is not to mention guys that happen to much larger than Machida.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Michael Carson said:


> I won't quote you right now, Ironman, I am very tired and about to go to sleep, don't have the energy to filter the quote. Sorry if this causes any confusion towards my response here.
> 
> Machida doesn't have to do any real damage to score a W, so long as he is throwing, and landing strikes.
> 
> ...


The difference between Crocop and Machida is Karate and Kickboxing. 

As for the relating of Fedor to Tito.....:thumbsdown:. Bad choice of relations. Yes, Tito was/is bigger. But faster and stronger he is not. Better grappler he is not. Better striker he is not. There is absolutely no category that Machida matches up well against Fedor in and that is what IronMan is trying to say. To no end I must add.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

+Shogun+ said:


> By chance, I meant like .01/2%. Kevin Burns style accidental eyepoke TKO.


I wouldn't even give you, or myself for that matter, that chance.


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## DropKick (Apr 19, 2007)

Why don't we see Machida fight a guy like Chuck, Shogun, Wandy or Rampage and dominate them before people make threads about how he could beat Fedor. He hasn't even beat the best guys in his own division yet.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Fedor via overwhelming Lyoto.

He would come at him faster than Lyoto can back up. Lyoto has to rely on points, Fedor can end it at any moment.

Hell, Lyoto hasn't beaten a mainstay top ten guy yet....but we're picking him against the greatest heavyweight of all time?


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## Jewbacca (May 22, 2008)

DropKick said:


> I'm going to say there is a 0% chance that Machida could beat Fedor even on Fedors worst day. Fedor will out strike him, out grapple him and out wrestle him. Machida doesn't have the power to hurt Fedor or the skill to sub him. Fedor doesn't lose decisions either as he always imposes his will on his opponents. Even if Machida backs up the whole time and doesn't get finished he won't win a decision. Fedor has beaten much better strikers and grapplers than Machida is not to mention guys that happen to much larger than Machida.


Machida is stronger, quicker, a better striker, and a better grappler. 

How can Fedor win? He would have to be Jesus to beat Machida.


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## DropKick (Apr 19, 2007)

RVCA said:


> Machida is stronger, quicker, a better striker, and a better grappler.
> 
> How can Fedor win? He would have to be Jesus to beat Machida.



Your right, I don't know what I was thinking coming on MMA Forums and doubting Machida's ability. Thanks for setting me straight man.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

RVCA said:


> Machida is stronger, quicker, a better striker, and a better grappler.
> 
> How can Fedor win? He would have to be Jesus to beat Machida.


Machida spits on Jesus as he begs for pity.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Michael Carson said:


> I won't quote you right now, Ironman, I am very tired and about to go to sleep, don't have the energy to filter the quote. Sorry if this causes any confusion towards my response here.


Oh, well. It was fun while it lasted.



> Machida doesn't have to do any real damage to score a W, so long as he is throwing, and landing strikes.


How do you figure?

If he hadn't hurt Tito, do you think that judges would have given him the fight? Hell no. The fact that he does hurt the guys he fights at 205 (different than finishing, pointedly, but he does damage) is what leads the judges to give him those fights. He won't even hurt Fedor and the judges will not give a fight to a fighter who looks utterly incapable of doing damage, despite how good his forty meter dash time is.



> Cro Cop does counter, but the way he counters is different. Machida does throw kicks, yes, but his style is completely different. His timing, the way he counters, his movement, all of it. That is why no one can figure him out.


That's fine. Fedor didn't "figure out" Mirko. He didn't exploit any one strategic advantage in the standup. He overwhelmed him with his aggression. He'll do the same thing to Machida.



> Yes, Fedor is definitely bigger, stronger, has better grappling. I believe it was Tito who also was supposed to have all of these. Again, I understand Fedor is HW, and is better than Tito, that's why Machida had such little problems with Tito. He could do the same to Fedor, just might have a few more problems than with Tito, but the same outcome.


You're dealing with about, on a scale of 1-to-10, a 286 point difference in the level of skill and power.

When has Tito thrown around a 250 pound opponent the way that Fedor threw around Heath Herring? The answer you're looking for is never.

Fedor has power that Machida has never seen. He has seen Tito's power before (because, after all, we're not talking about the young Tito that fought Evan Tanner, we're talking about the old and decrepit Tito that's cardio comes from shagging Jenna Jameson and shining his forehead).



> Tim did say Fedor hit him the hardest, but he was still awake and still defending. I do agree Sylvia was less aware than when Randy hit him, but he was still there and still defending. I think it is less of a matter that Tim was less aware, and more of the fact that Fedor is better than Randy is on the ground.


Were we watching the same fight?

Tim went *fetal* before Fedor took his back and choked him out. He had given up on that fight long before he tapped.



ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> The difference between Crocop and Machida is Karate and Kickboxing.
> 
> As for the relating of Fedor to Tito.....:thumbsdown:. Bad choice of relations. Yes, Tito was/is bigger. But faster and stronger he is not. Better grappler he is not. Better striker he is not. There is absolutely no category that Machida matches up well against Fedor in and that is what IronMan is trying to say. To no end I must add.


The difference is well and good. Fedor didn't deal with CroCop's style of fighting. He overwhelmed him. See the first section of this post.

Yeah, you basically got the idea.



RVCA said:


> Machida is stronger, quicker, a better striker, and a better grappler.
> 
> How can Fedor win? He would have to be Jesus to beat Machida.


:laugh:


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I know there's another thread about this, but there can only be one. I'd put in "The Spider" and Fedor at Catch weight. The two undisputed champs in their respective weight classes. They're beyond any fighter out there at this point in time mentally and physically. Both are unassuming, humble, but tear shit up in the cage like there's no tomorrow!!!


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

And you know who else could beat Fedor? Faber, seriously. Dude might be small but has wicked strength and heart, he would stand a shot. Ohhh what a dream fight, they both have talent so it would make for a good fight!

Seriously, how about someone in his own goddamn weight class?


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> I don't see why I would get flamed, It's a legitimate question. Both technical fighters, both smart, and no one has found any way to beat Machida. :dunno:


well to be serious about this, fedor isn't very technical. he has wild strikes so they seem... but they are very accurate. all i see fedor doing is tying machida up and taking him down with brute force and GnP.


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## blanker (Jun 5, 2008)

fedor would beat machida the same way anyone could and thats to play him at his own game and not attack him, after 2 rounds of no fighting machida would over commit, as long as your not chasing machida he has no game and would have to attack which would leave him open for a knockout or more likely the take down and sub.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

chilo said:


> well to be serious about this, fedor isn't very technical. he has wild strikes so they seem... but they are very accurate. all i see fedor doing is tying machida up and taking him down with brute force and GnP.


There's a difference between technical and traditional. Fedor's standup is very technical, but it's not the typical boxing/muay thai style standup.

He throws from the hip, which is why he has way more power than anybody else, and his head movement is on another level.


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## msoric (Jun 22, 2008)

lol you people can't be serious... 
Alex_DeLarge is right... why are you even discussing this nonsense? i've seen shit like this long time ago even in WoW, it's a perfect example, in fighting 1v1 "oh he would do this, and as soon as you do that he would do this and that" and guess what, none of the duels went any way near anything people discussed about, if the fight happens, it happens, then you can discuss it

oh well, i still think fedor would whoop his ass


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## Shamrock-Ortiz (Sep 22, 2006)

mjbish23 said:


> Fedor will lose eventually. I guarantee it. There is always someone better then you and Fedor will eventually meet that person.


There is not ALWAYS someone better than you, 99.999999999999999999999% of the time there is, but Fedor is the best fighter in the world, which means there is nobody better than him....


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## Shamrock-Ortiz (Sep 22, 2006)

+Shogun+ said:


> It's MMA, I have a chance. But that chance is really really small.


4/1 is what you gave Machida, that's not a really really small chance, it's 1 in 4 times Machida would beat Fedor according to you.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

I think the more appropriate and accurate thread would be, "The One to Beat Machida WOULD Certainly be Fedor".


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## Arlovski_Fan (Apr 25, 2007)

Is this a joke? Machida has a bad habit of not finishing guys, which means thats more time for Fedor to finish him. I would bet everything on Fedor.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

I'm still waiting on the BJ Penn vs Fedor thread.


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## Guy (Feb 17, 2008)

Are you guys psycho? The real man to beat to beat Fedor has to be Spencer Fisher. I mean think about it...

Either him or Sam Stout.


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## Lotus (Jul 4, 2007)

the only thing to beat fedor is natural causes. If his body will let him die.


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## WarHERO (Dec 31, 2006)

WILL BE

*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Chuck Norris. Sorry folks just had to do it


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

WarHERO said:


> WILL BE
> 
> *
> *
> ...




A round house kick from Chuck would rip the skin off Fedors face.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

But he would recover and make Chuck Tap.


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## SOTAK (May 2, 2008)

J.P. said:


> A round house kick from Chuck would rip the skin off Fedors face.




ROFL!!:thumb02: No way JP norris will break off his foot on Fedors cyborg skull.


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## blanker (Jun 5, 2008)

J.P. said:


> A round house kick from Chuck would rip the skin off Fedors face.


skynet would just make him another one.


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## TKOSPIKE (Jul 7, 2006)

antonio silva


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

TKOSPIKE said:


> antonio silva


Not seeing that one either. Possible, but he needs to step it up a ton. He had all kinds of issues with Eilers. Issues he shouldn't have had at all.


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## Guy (Feb 17, 2008)

Phil Baroni because he is "the greatest evahhh!!!"


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## DropKick (Apr 19, 2007)

Rick Flair in his prime would be beat Fedor. He'd lock in that figure four before Fedor even realized what was happening.


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## Drizzt (Jul 22, 2008)

Sting too


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