# Should Tito be Kept in the UFC?



## KittenStrangler (Mar 26, 2010)

After Tito recently pulled out of his third fight with Chuck, I honestly don't see the need for him. He hasn't won a fight in 4 years, 106 didn't do too well buy-rate wise, he has caused the company problems and he's an overall bad role model of the sport(except when he's a coach.) Don't get me wrong, Tito had a major influence on the growth on our sport and deserves to be a hall of famer BUT he hasn't contributed anything positive in years and I don't see him doing well in the future either. I personally think he has no business in the UFC and if he were to be kept around, he shouldn't be at main event status. The fact he got paid 250,000 even after losing to Griffin is ridiculous. Thoughts?

EDIT: For anyone confused by "Can't Decide Yet," it means that it's too early in his UFC return to decide what he can offer. You'd have to base your answer off his future performances.


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## IllegalLegKick (Apr 13, 2010)

I kinda like watching him get beat up and then make those hilarious excuses so I voted yes.


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

we dont know the reason why he pulled out of his fight yet, but am guessing its something pretty serious that he did it during TUF. 

Tito is still a decent fighter IMO and whether good or bad i still think he is pretty entertaining.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

I find him to be entertaining in and out of the Octagon.
Great TUF coach.
Great trash talker.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

This is a bit early dont you think? You dont know anything about his situation or how bad it actually was and Tito is still a good fighter, Yes I said good... That means above the average level. 

Do you really think Tito would pull out of a TuF season and not fight Chuck when it could possibly be a big pay day? Sure Tito makes a bunch of excuses but hes never one to back off a fight.


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## Kodiac26170 (Jul 30, 2009)

Tito always brings it. He lost a close fight to Forrest just about subbed a Machida who ran most of the fight. He is definatly still in the game. Most people who say no only say no because of personal feelings and not actual quality of fighter.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

I think they should keep him for two reasons

1) he's a solid gatekeeper. Tito can beat pretty much all of the mid tier guys at LHW, but can't beat the top 10 guys. He's a good litmus test as to whether a fighter is ready for the top guys or not.

2) He is very popular with the common fan. Just having him on a card sells more PPV's. That is reason enough alone for DW to keep him.


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## SUR1109 (Mar 18, 2009)

i said no let him go to strikeforce


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

No he is a loser and bullshit excuse maker....plus he loses all the time. i cant stand Tito and IMO he has been irrelivant for yrs now....he's an asshole that talks shit otherwise he wouldnt have any fans.....:thumbsdown:


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## xbrokenshieldx (Mar 5, 2007)

Yea, we really don't know why he pulled out of the fight. It is waayyy too early to even judge this situation. A few weeks ago Jenna was tweeting something about Tito being in the hospital. It is possible that he caught something (like serious staph) that forced him out of the TUF gym. If he did something that forced him to actually get kicked off, then it is probably serious enough to remove him from the UFC.


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

DJ Syko said:


> we dont know the reason why he pulled out of his fight yet, but am guessing its something pretty serious that he did it during TUF.
> 
> Tito is still a decent fighter IMO and whether good or bad i still think he is pretty entertaining.


exactly what i was going to write :thumb02:


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

I remember thinking that when TUF coaches were announced that Tito wanted to get the TV time and not necessarily the fight. He's a Kimbo and his stock goes down every time he loses and he knows it.


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## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

Fieos said:


> I remember thinking that when TUF coaches were announced that Tito wanted to get the TV time and not necessarily the fight. He's a Kimbo and his stock goes down every time he loses and he knows it.


Good point,I think you have hit the nail on the HEAD.


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Tito is ALLWAYS going to be a big draw for one so yeah he should be kept around simply for that reason and the dude is still a solid fighter. Guy was out for a long ass time came back and held his own against Griffin who imo is a top LHW.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

Emericanaddict said:


> ...Griffin who imo is a top LHW.


LOL to that


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

I'm sure I read on a forum, maybe even this one that Jenna had pregancy problems. I don't know if she was preggers again but either way, it's probably best to wait for news before slating him for not fighting Chuck.

As for his worth in the UFC, it's just not the same being so arrogant when you're only average compared to the rest of the pack.

Tito's character and shit talk was worth something back in the day, but now he's just an average fighter his shit wont sell. I think the causal fans should be given some more credit, even though know Tito would get beat by all the top LHWs.


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## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

I voted no, but it may be a little early. I base it on the fact that Tito is fast becoming Ken Shamrock. He hasn't won a fight in over four years, he really isn't all that relevant in the division, and I am tired of hearing his B.S. excuses every time he loses. He makes to much money to be a gatekeeper, and would have to win to prove even that much worth. I would say let Strikeforce have him and see what they can do with him. I bet Dana will keep Tito until his contract is up though. If I were Dana I would be having a bit of buyer's remorse for having signed Tito's contract.


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## KittenStrangler (Mar 26, 2010)

The main reason I said no was not because of him quitting out of his fight with Chuck, it's because of everything else. And Tito is no longer a high draw. Tito vs Forrest II was a highly anticipated rematch and if that wasn't enough, it was Tito's big RETURN. Those two things alone should get a lot of buys. It didn't though. It only had a buyrate of 300,000. He will never EVER beat any of the top HWs. I honestly don't see him winning a single fight in his UFC return. I guess they could put him up against a mid-low tier fighter but then what's the point?


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Keep him around? Sure. But pay him the kind of money he makes? No.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Keep him around? Sure. But pay him the kind of money he makes? No.


Why is everyone so concerned about how much money he makes?

I trust Dana is not an idiot and pays him the kind of money he thinks is fair and sound business wise.


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## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

suniis said:


> Why is everyone so concerned about how much money he makes?
> 
> I trust Dana is not an idiot and pays him the kind of money he thinks is fair and sound business wise.


I cant tell if you are being sarcastic or serious.:confused02:


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

locnott said:


> I cant tell if you are being sarcastic or serious.:confused02:


LOL! I was actually being serious...

/Sarcasm off


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Davisty69 said:


> I think they should keep him for two reasons
> 
> 1) he's a solid gatekeeper. Tito can beat pretty much all of the mid tier guys at LHW, but can't beat the top 10 guys. He's a good litmus test as to whether a fighter is ready for the top guys or not.
> 
> 2) He is very popular with the common fan. Just having him on a card sells more PPV's. That is reason enough alone for DW to keep him.


This, and all the huge cranium-related lulz we love so much.


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## Inkdot (Jun 15, 2009)

I voted yes! So we can see him geat beaten again and again and make some dumb excuses and then watch his girlfriend give the finger to an old man who just lost a fight.

Too much drama to let go!


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

I cant decide yet I guess we will see how all this plays out


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

I voted No.

He used to be my favorite fighter and is the reason I started watching MMA, but recently he's been annoying me with him constantly talking shit he cant back up. His whole style is outdated and he should just go focus on his gym and clothing line or whatever else it is he does.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

KittenStrangler said:


> After Tito recently pulled out of his third fight with Chuck, I honestly don't see the need for him. He hasn't won a fight in 4 years, 106 didn't do too well buy-rate wise, he has caused the company problems and he's an overall bad role model of the sport(except when he's a coach.) Don't get me wrong, Tito had a major influence on the growth on our sport and *deserves to be a hall of famer* BUT he hasn't contributed anything positive in years and I don't see him doing well in the future either. I personally think he has no business in the UFC and if he were to be kept around, he shouldn't be at main event status. The fact he got paid 250,000 even after losing to Griffin is ridiculous. Thoughts?
> 
> EDIT: For anyone confused by "Can't Decide Yet," it means that it's too early in his UFC return to decide what he can offer. You'd have to base your answer off his future performances.


Hall of famer? really? we are talking about tito right?


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## KittenStrangler (Mar 26, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Hall of famer? really? we are talking about tito right?


Depends on the criteria. If they're just looking for someone who has been in the sport a long time and has contributed to it's growth, Tito deserves it. But if they're looking for that AND an overall positive role model who has been good to the company their entire career then god no. Tito is the worst possible role model for any aspiring MMA fighter.


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Hall of famer? really? we are talking about tito right?


oh i see him being in the HOF very easily, he was a champ for a while, been with the sport/company a very long time, helped the company grow like few other fighters have, he has done many side jobs for the ufc besides him just being in the rig, I am sure there is allot more but i only recently became a fan of his


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Hall of famer? really? we are talking about tito right?


How is Tito not a HOF'er ?? He has been with the UFC longer then Chuck has(i think) and has just as big as following as Randy and Chuck(maybe a little less but not much). He has held the belt for a while and helped the UFC grow when nobody would support it and watch it. 

Is Tito as loved as Chuck or Randy? Probably not but that doesnt mean he doesnt belong in the HOF. Fans want to watch him lose just as much as they want to watch him win, and his trash talking is actually well done and entertaining. You see a lot of fighters trying to trash talk now-a-days but Tito has done it better then all of them. 

bottom line, when your with the UFC for 10+years and sell as many PPV's as he does, and not to mention you have held the belt. You will be a HOF'er regardless of if people hate you or love you.

I may come off as some big Tito fan but I am not, I am only recognizing him for what he has done for the sport overall. I dont know how long you have been following the UFC/MMA, but any long time viewer would say Tito belongs in the HOF.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

He's going to the HOF no doubt. He had the belt longer than chuck and Randy at any given time. so i'm pretty sure he's going in.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

I want to see him get beat up a couple more times before he leaves. They should feed him to Bones that would be hilarious.


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## SUR1109 (Mar 18, 2009)

Davisty69 said:


> I think they should keep him for two reasons
> 
> 1) he's a solid gatekeeper. Tito can beat pretty much all of the mid tier guys at LHW, but can't beat the top 10 guys. He's a good litmus test as to whether a fighter is ready for the top guys or not.
> 
> 2) He is very popular with the common fan. Just having him on a card sells more PPV's. That is reason enough alone for DW to keep him.


:doh01: dam y didnt i think of this good point ...:thumbsup:


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## UFC on VHS (Dec 16, 2008)

I think he should still be in the UFC. The guy may not be the best ever but alot of people underrate him. Tito Ortiz is a good fighter regardless of what people may think.

Solid gatekeeper if anything. I would like to see him and Jardine or Bader go at it.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

It's quite amusing to think that Tito almost finished Machida :confused05:


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## zubesss (Jan 27, 2010)

UFC has no reason to release him. He could lose 15 more matches and it'd still be worth it for UFC to keep him rather than let some other organization snap him up. Strikeforce will snap him up in an instant and get attention.

And Tito is still a draw. I still find it amazing UFC 106 almost did 400,000 buys. If Tito wasn't there as a backup main event, the card would have been unsalvageable.


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## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

vilify said:


> He's going to the HOF no doubt. He had the belt longer than chuck and Randy at any given time. so i'm pretty sure he's going in.


Yeah Tito will be in the HOF, but Ken Shamrock is in there too. So it's not like it's that big of an accomplishment. Sh*t Mask Lewis is in there for some reason and he never coached or fought. So basically the UFC HOF is a big freaking joke.


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

Tito who???
Seriously though, I don't care about Tito anymore. He proved in his last fight that he is still good at making excuses for losing a fight and that's about it.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Hiro said:


> It's quite amusing to think that Tito almost finished Machida :confused05:


 
He didnt, he had him in a weak triangle for the last uh... like .28 secs of the fight, im pretty sure you or I could hang in that for 28 secs....:thumbsup: The real amusing part of that fight was watching the Karate man throw the wrestler around the cage for three rounds....30-27...accross the board...Tito is nothing....IMO


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## punchbag (Mar 1, 2010)

Davisty69 said:


> I think they should keep him for two reasons
> 
> 1) he's a solid gatekeeper. Tito can beat pretty much all of the mid tier guys at LHW, but can't beat the top 10 guys. He's a good litmus test as to whether a fighter is ready for the top guys or not.
> 
> 2) He is very popular with the common fan. Just having him on a card sells more PPV's. That is reason enough alone for DW to keep him.


From what i've seen of the guy talking, he's an asshole. But you can't deny his skill level, that he is a good gauge with which to judge a fighters abilities, as you said and great coach(yes, I said it).
He's entertaining in the fact he makes you want to watchpeople try to hit him, and some of his coments are actually quite funny.
I am just distraught Chuck isn't going to get the chance to punch that Fat head, but hopefully won't be too long before someone has the chance, if the injury or whatever isn't too bad.


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## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

He' like the semi ugly chick you used to keep around in high school, not so bad if she's the only one around at the time but your not going to make a special trip to see her.
A Tito fight is better than no fight, but he is not even on the big list muchless near the top..IMHO only


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## Jamal (Aug 20, 2009)

Love Tito, or hate Tito, hes still a very big draw and has some interesting matchups still imo, he just needs to get that gas tank refilled and refocus.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Tito can still have some interesting fights in the UFC, just not with top tier guys. So keep him around, just no in main events.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

I don't know what's wrong with his game at this point. His shots looks extremely predictable, and they're not coming as quickly or as frequently as they used to.

On top of that, the upper echelon of the LHW division has seemingly passed him years ago. The quality of striking among top contenders far surpasses anything Tito has to offer, and he was outgrappled by Machida to an embarrassing degree.

I'd say he's still a top ten guy, or a top twelve guy, but competitively speaking, he's almost an also-ran.


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## Jamal (Aug 20, 2009)

He's been around since day one, so him slowing down is totally normal. He's not exactly a spring chicken


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

michelangelo said:


> I don't know what's wrong with his game at this point. His shots looks extremely predictable, and they're not coming as quickly or as frequently as they used to.
> 
> On top of that, the upper echelon of the LHW division has seemingly passed him years ago. The quality of striking among top contenders far surpasses anything Tito has to offer, and he was outgrappled by Machida to an embarrassing degree.


You answered your own question about Tito's shot with the second part. It's not that he's gotten terrible, it's that he just hasn't evolved and has been passed by superior fighters.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Yeah, and I think he's tried too. He worked with Freddie Roach, but I didn't see any evidence of a polished striking game when he faced off against Forrest. 

He, like Chuck his arch nemesis, may be at a point in his game where he is unable to evolve and grow as a fighter the way that Rashad has, or Shogun has, or that Rampage has. 

It's too bad; I'd be amped to see a Tito Ortiz go at 10/10ths!


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

michelangelo said:


> Yeah, and I think he's tried too. He worked with Freddie Roach, but I didn't see any evidence of a polished striking game when he faced off against Forrest.
> 
> He, like Chuck his arch nemesis, may be at a point in his game where he is unable to evolve and grow as a fighter the way that Rashad has, or Shogun has, or that Rampage has.
> 
> It's too bad; I'd be amped to see a Tito Ortiz go at 10/10ths!


Tito and Chuck's fall was just a matter of the sport evolving. Chuck was fighting better strikers and better wrestlers and his sprawl and brawl style just wasn't as effective as it used to be. Tito's takedown and GnP doesn't work anymore for the same reason, guys are getting better all the time. You can no longer win at a top level only being good at one aspect of the game, you need to be as well rounded as possible and Tito is too old now to add a good enough striking game to compete.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

coldcall420 said:


> He didnt, he had him in a weak triangle for the last uh... like .28 secs of the fight, im pretty sure you or I could hang in that for 28 secs....:thumbsup: The real amusing part of that fight was watching the Karate man throw the wrestler around the cage for three rounds....30-27...accross the board...Tito is nothing....IMO


lol I agree, and maybe 'almost finished' was the wrong way to put it. But almost having atriangle locked on is just amusing to me.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not pro Tito, I laugh at him as much as anyone :thumb02:


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## Can.Opener (Apr 8, 2009)

I'd just like him to stick around to fight Chuck.. and subsequently tap out to strikes again.

After that he's free to retire.. I can see him ending up on the Surreal life or being an equally horrendous E grade Celebrity with his whore wife.

The guys a joke and irrelevant in MMA.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

Yes, definitely. Let see him fight again.


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## KittenStrangler (Mar 26, 2010)

For the people who do want him to stay, whose the highest ranked fighter he could possibly beat? Because there's no way in hell he's getting in the TOP 10.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

I think he can beat Forrest...
But again, Forrest is not even a high ranked LHW IMO


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

WhiteWolf said:


> I don't like Ortiz, but he's probobly one of the most hated fighters within the actual MMA community, aside from maybe Frank Trigg. The guy gets absolutely no respect from anyone, and probobly deservedly so, but there are worse than Tito out there. The fact that he doesn't get respect from Dana, and even guys like Randy, Chuck (who Dana holds in VERY high regard), and others will probobly keep him from getting a nod. You can't argue however, that Tito was a huge draw and was instrumental in helping the UFC grow.


 
Who"s worse than Tito????:confused02:


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

coldcall420 said:


> Who"s worse than Tito????:confused02:


Dan Henderson must be, I mean Dana had no interest in bringing him back, but he negotiated with Tito for how long?


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Personally I would not get excited to see another Tito fight, but then I am not excited about Chuck vs Franklin ether, I would put all 3 of these fighters in the showcase category these days, thats not to say I think they should be dropped from the UFC, I just dont like to see to many of these fight on one card and I dont like to see them been given the main event status, but I believe there is always room for 1 showcase fight on a single card so fighters like Tito, Chuck and Rich still have there place.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Personally I would not get excited to see another Tito fight, but then I am not excited about Chuck vs Franklin ether, I would put all 3 of these fighters in the showcase category these days, thats not to say I think they should be dropped from the UFC, I just dont like to see to many of these fight on one card and I dont like to see them been given the main event status, but I believe there is always room for 1 showcase fight on a single card so fighters like Tito, Chuck and Rich still have there place.


Maybe they should put Chuck, Franklin and Tito all in the cage together at once and the last guy to not tap or get KO'd wins?

Because I WOULD pay to see that, haha


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> Maybe they should put Chuck, Franklin and Tito all in the cage together at once and the last guy to not tap or get KO'd wins?
> 
> Because I WOULD pay to see that, haha


Throw Couture into the mix and they could do a elimination tournament like in K-1


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

Tito is trash. He's more pro-wrestling than mma. He's admitted before that it's all a 'show' to him; he doesn't respect the sport for what it is, and thinks you need to cheapen it by playing a character.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Throw Couture into the mix and they could do a elimination tournament like in K-1


That would be a nice tournament, I would actually order that if they had all three fights on the same night.

It would be all about who got the draw, I would see Chuck winning if he didn't draw Rich in the first fight, because I think Couture could beat Rich. It would be kind of interesting, I can see it now though,

UFC 119 Battle to Stay Out of Retirement

Or

UFC 119 War of Who Gives a F*ck


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## x_Rampage_x (Sep 5, 2009)

It would be an absolute joke to kick out Tito. He belongs in the UFC!


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

x_Rampage_x said:


> It would be an absolute joke to kick out Tito. He belongs in the UFC!


Talent belongs in the UFC, not names.


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## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

The UFC doesn't need an injury prone has-been who makes excuses for every loss. His day has come and gone.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

His entertaining, so he gets my vote. Yes.


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## Grotty (Jul 21, 2006)

How can anyone make a decision without facts?


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Grotty said:


> How can anyone make a decision without facts?


Yeah. Unless you know for sure what happened with Tito, doesn´t seem reasonable to judge the guy.

I agree that his better time is gone, but since the ufc gave him another chance i say let him show what hes (still) got.


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## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

His excuses are HOF worthy, put them in for sure. Tito, one of the best fighters in mma history, it dilutes the pool, but it depends on what kind of HOF you want - a WWF HOF or a MLB HOF? Personally Arianny has done more for the sport than Tito........


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

It's a travesty that this clown gets $250000 for losing after shitty performances, excuses, trash talk and pulling out of fights, while extremely talented fighters get shafted with $3000-8000 a fight. 

Someone explain to my how the UFC can't afford to pay a majority of it's fighters more than minimum wage for all their hours spent training, while it can blow millions on this has-been windbag? 

I say get rid of him and put the money to better use.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> It's a travesty that this clown gets $250000 for losing after shitty performances, excuses, trash talk and pulling out of fights, while extremely talented fighters get shafted with $3000-8000 a fight.
> 
> Someone explain to my how the UFC can't afford to pay a majority of it's fighters more than minimum wage for all their hours spent training, while it can blow millions on this has-been windbag?
> 
> I say get rid of him and put the money to better use.


The sad thing about the UFC is... Salaries are based on Popularity and not talent.

i personally think the Minimum pay shud be 20k to show and 10k to win. Thats about 90k a year if u win all 3 fights which still isnt a crazy amount but is fair.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> It's a travesty that this clown gets $250000 for losing after shitty performances, excuses, trash talk and pulling out of fights, while extremely talented fighters get shafted with $3000-8000 a fight.
> 
> Someone explain to my how the UFC can't afford to pay a majority of it's fighters more than minimum wage for all their hours spent training, while it can blow millions on this has-been windbag?
> 
> I say get rid of him and put the money to better use.


Dont know how long you have been watching or paying attention to the UFC, but salary is based on popularity and ability to sell PPVs. It is amazing how people talk shit about Tito and forget about reality, While I agree that the minimum pay is absurd and should be around 20k like the above poster said, You cant knock Tito for making what he does when he has built his reputation for the past 10+ years while these new better fighters are still rising.

You can say the same thing about any fighter thats on a decline, I dont see people complaining about Chuck Liddell's payscale when he is getting his head knocked off left and right recently.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Spec0688 said:


> Dont know how long you have been watching or paying attention to the UFC, but salary is based on popularity and ability to sell PPVs. It is amazing how people talk shit about Tito and forget about reality, While I agree that the minimum pay is absurd and should be around 20k like the above poster said, You cant knock Tito for making what he does when he has built his reputation for the past 10+ years while these new better fighters are still rising.
> 
> You can say the same thing about any fighter thats on a decline, I dont see people complaining about Chuck Liddell's payscale when he is getting his head knocked off left and right recently.


I've been watching the UFC for a long time and am quite aware of the popularity-pay scale thing. Except Tito is not that popular anymore ... UFC 106 had one of the lowest PPV buys in years, and even that much because of decent supporting fights. 

You're making the case that talent and popularity are unrelated, but that is only for a short "catch up" period before people start to realize the guys sucks and stop caring. In the long run, popularity is closely related to talent and wins. 

TUF can skew the equation for a short time, but in the end fighters that keep losing will never stay popular for long as far as actual events go, they will only be fondly remembered at best or turn into laughing stocks like Ken Shamrock (Tito's future) at worst. As far as PPVs go, no one cares that Ken was on of the greatest fighters of his time, he sucks now and no one would buy a card because of him ... same with Tito, it's just people who love reality TV "heel" type douchebags that can't get over him.

And there is a huge difference between Chuck and Tito, even though both are essentially has-beens now. Chuck doesn't bitch and whine about his broken back. Chuck doesn't turn down or back out of fights, ever. Chuck still brings it in every fight. Chuck held the gold far more recently than Ortiz did. And Chuck has at least had a couple of wins in the last 4 years, which is more than what Ortiz can say.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> And there is a huge difference between Chuck and Tito, even though both are essentially has-beens now. Chuck doesn't bitch and whine about his broken back. Chuck doesn't turn down or back out of fights, ever. Chuck still brings it in every fight. Chuck held the gold far more recently than Ortiz did. And Chuck has at least had a couple of wins in the last 4 years, which is more than what Ortiz can say.


When has Tito ever backed out of a fight? Are you suggesting that he didnt have reason to back out of TUF and UFC 115? You dont know what happened to him and its absurd to make a comment like that when you dont know anything about the situation.

You say chuck has more recent wins yet he is 1-4 since 2007, While Tito doesnt exactly have a better record in that time, he has been out for a year and a half or so. I am not saying we will see the old Tito since his back surgery or anything,just that your points arent exactly strong here.

You had some good points going on in your post till this part right here.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> When has Tito ever backed out of a fight? Are you suggesting that he didnt have reason to back out of TUF and UFC 115? You dont know what happened to him and its absurd to make a comment like that when you dont know anything about the situation.
> 
> You say chuck has more recent wins yet he is 1-4 since 2007, While Tito doesnt exactly have a better record in that time, he has been out for a year and a half or so. I am not saying we will see the old Tito since his back surgery or anything,just that your points arent exactly strong here.
> 
> You had some good points going on in your post till this part right here.


Disagree with you here man. He had some pretty good points and I agree with pretty much all of them.
Tito really has not been selling recently and the excuses are bad for the sport IMO. I don't know why he pulled out this time but it seems to me that if he can threaten every single person who has called him a p*ssy recently on his twitter, which is so unprofessional and foolish it is not even funny, he can at least man up and fight. You create this big hype for the fight and then don't show up and it is bad for the sport. And didn't he get the belt taken away from him for not fighting Chuck? so he does back out of fights and creates excuses. I don't think he should be kicked out, but he should be paid less and learn how to act like an athlete.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Spec0688 said:


> When has Tito ever backed out of a fight? Are you suggesting that he didnt have reason to back out of TUF and UFC 115? You dont know what happened to him and its absurd to make a comment like that when you dont know anything about the situation.
> 
> You say chuck has more recent wins yet he is 1-4 since 2007, While Tito doesnt exactly have a better record in that time, he has been out for a year and a half or so. I am not saying we will see the old Tito since his back surgery or anything,just that your points arent exactly strong here.
> 
> You had some good points going on in your post till this part right here.


Right, Butcher already mentioned the first Chuck fight, then there's also the old Dana boxing thing . His excuse was that he wanted to make money from it ... but if he had pride and confidence, he'd just shut Dana's mouth for free. 

Instead he was talking scared about how Dana "almost went pro" as a boxer and it wasn't a risk he wanted to take lol ... I mean this was a balding corporate boss that hasn't been inside a ring in over a decade, with no available footage or record of his amateur career, against a full blown ex-champ pro fighter in the peak of his youth with a size and fitness advantage to boot.

Then there's the aching back, the cracked skull, the hurt neck, the chipped nail, the stubbed pinky.... all coming to revelation after a fight, not before.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> Right, Butcher already mentioned the first Chuck fight, then there's also the old Dana boxing thing . His excuse was that he wanted to make money from it ... but if he had pride and confidence, he'd just shut Dana's mouth for free.
> 
> Instead he was talking scared about how Dana "almost went pro" as a boxer and it wasn't a risk he wanted to take lol ... I mean this was a balding corporate boss that hasn't been inside a ring in over a decade, with no available footage of his amateur career, against a full blown ex-champ pro fighter in the peak of his youth with a size and fitness advantage to boot.
> 
> Then there's the aching back, the cracked skull, the hurt neck, the chipped nail, the stubbed pinky.... all coming to revelation after a fight, not before.


dunno what this has to do with my post. I never said Tito wasnt a jackass or full of excuses. Everyone is just fast to blame Tito because of those things, I am just trying give credit to Tito where hes actually not been bad in. He draws a crowd and hes defended the title more then Chuck. 

He has gotten worse recently though with the cracked skull and whatnot but at the end of the day Dana is a business man and do you really think he would pay Tito so much if he didnt draw a crowd or deserve it? 

He would let Tito walk like he let Henderson walk, and the sad part is that Hendo would probably kill Tito if they fought today.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Thats about 90k a year if u win all 3 fights which still isnt a crazy amount but is fair.


It´s extremely not enough for their work and value.

Dana shouldn´t be saying "all fighters in the UFC are rich" if that is all they get a year.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Which is maybe what he did. Personally I see the outcome of a Franklin/Liddel fight more proffitable(sp?) than a Tito/Liddel fight. If Franklin wins then all the fans that a legend like Liddel brings and have only seen Franklin get tooled by silva and Henderson will see franklin actually has some fighting skill. If liddel wins he could be getting back on the right track. In a Tito/Liddel fight people just see a third fight that Liddel will probably win and no one will think Chuck has done anything new. If tito wins he just beat an old Liddel after already losing twice to him. A franklin/Chuck fight at least has the new factor with it.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

AmdM said:


> It´s extremely not enough for their work and value.
> 
> Dana shouldn´t be saying "all fighters in the UFC are rich" if that is all they get a year.


actually thats a perfect number for fighters who are just entering the UFC or MMA. Dont forget fighters also get money from sponsors which is enough to cover gym/trainer expenses and have some left over.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Spec0688 said:


> *dunno what this has to do with my post. *I never said Tito wasnt a jackass or full of excuses. Everyone is just fast to blame Tito because of those things, I am just trying give credit to Tito where hes actually not been bad in. He draws a crowd and hes defended the title more then Chuck.
> 
> He has gotten worse recently though with the cracked skull and whatnot but at the end of the day Dana is a business man and do you really think he would pay Tito so much if he didnt draw a crowd or deserve it?
> 
> He would let Tito walk like he let Henderson walk, and the sad part is that Hendo would probably kill Tito if they fought today.


Well you asked when did Tito ever back out and I mentioned an instance :confused02:. Anyway like you said, the business mechanism will take care of things in it's own time ... this was just for discussions sake.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Spec0688 said:


> actually thats a perfect number for fighters who are just entering the UFC or MMA. Dont forget fighters also get money from sponsors which is enough to cover gym/trainer expenses and have some left over.


Can´t agree with that.

They´re athlets and their careers aren´t as long as that,
so getting just the enought to cover expenses isn´t that big of a deal.

Besides, UFC is (suposably) the top mma org in the world, where you only get after climbimg the leather, so you shouldn´t be treated as an amateur.


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## KittenStrangler (Mar 26, 2010)

Seems like a good time to resurrect this thread:thumb02:.

Except the new stipulation being, IF Tito is found guilty, should Dana "be fair" and cut him?


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

KittenStrangler said:


> Seems like a good time to resurrect this thread:thumb02:.
> 
> Except the new stipulation being, IF Tito is found guilty, should Dana "be fair" and cut him?


Why bring this up and not bring a new one up? Even then this is foolish. Everyone will say if Tito is guilty kick him out. If he is innocent then it is the same thing that they thought before.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

This really is an authentic thread with the current circumstances...lthough I think it would only get worse for Tito....


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Yes. 

What happens under his roof is none of our business.

Also if any of you guys think Dana would threaten to cut a Lesnar or a GSP over domestic violence sorry but you are kidding yourselves.


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