# ***OFFICIAL*** Nate Diaz vs Dong Hyun Kim Pre/Post Fight



## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

*Please conduct ALL of your discussion in regards to Nate Diaz vs. Dong Hyun 'Stun Gun' Kim at UFC 125 in this thread. All threads made in regards to this fight will be merged into this one.*​


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Bad match-up for Nate. Kim should toss him around like a rag-doll with his judo, plus he's a much bigger WW and has good sub defense.

These days it seems foolish to bet against either Diaz but i'm taking Kim by UD.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Best fight on the card. Diaz by sub? Kim by UD?


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

I love me some Stun Gun. 

Great to see him back in action!

If Kim's cardio holds up, so much the better. 

P.S.: I heart Dana F'in' White for the 125 card.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

I think Nate is going to take this via weird pitter patter boxing combined with elbows off his back.


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## Shoegazer (Jun 23, 2007)

Nate outstrikes him on the feet, DHK takes him down only to fall into a guillotine or triangle.

Diaz via scowl


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## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

Stun Gun via throwing Nate around like an empty tracksuit.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Best fight on the card. *Diaz by sub?* Kim by UD?


From his back? No chance!

If this fight goes to the ground, Kim is going to be on top and will have the significant grappling advantage there. 

If he avoids the striking for the majoritiy of time.. he should take the UD.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

This is going to be such an interesting match up. 

On one corner you have a respectful fighter. On another...well you know. 

How will it play out. This is a tough one man. I'm indifferent actually.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Stungun is a horrible match up for diaz. A relentless grappler he sticks to his opponents like glue.

it will be the stevenson/guida fight all over again. but you never know


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## Warning (Nov 18, 2009)

Never bet against Detroit or anyone with the last name Diaz.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I am taking Diaz here. His striking is better than Kim's for sure and he does have the ability to finish this fight on the ground. Diaz just has more ways to win than Kim does.


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## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

Really tough fight to call, and i think after the first round it will be quite clear who is going to win. Im swaying towards Diaz, but im not 100% sure yet.


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## badboy (Aug 1, 2009)

Too close to call really but I'm going to go with Diaz. I don't know how but he'll win I think.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Kim is a terrible match up for Diaz, but I've paid heavy for betting against the Diaz brothers.

Diaz by UD.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

If Guida can beat Diaz it isn't hard to see Stun Gun pulling off a similar victory. I don't expect a lopsided decision but I think Kim will be on the winning end of it.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Hmmm tough fight, but I like Diaz's striking and his slick subs and transmissions from the bottom. I think he wins a split dec


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

FOTN favorite for me!

Both are very skilled fighters, exciting to watch.

I am convinced this fight will go to the floor and once it goes there, anything can happen.

But i was very impressed with Diaz's subs lately: very creative and efficient. 
I think he can do it again. That's why i'm picking Diaz, by sub.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

I love dong...hyun kim that is!

ground control all the way!


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## jaycalgary (Jun 19, 2008)

Diaz all the way. Then I think we get to hear him call out Gray Maynard after.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

I'll buy the hype. Stun Gun by epic left hook.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I think this has FOTN written all over it.


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## Abrissbirne (Jul 4, 2010)

Can´t loose when entering with Pride FC Intro 
WAR KIM!


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Toxic said:


> I think this has FOTN written all over it.


Completely agreed.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

I loves me some Stun Gun but I'm uber-worried about Nate subbing him off his back. Totally hope Dong can pull this off but I really don't know with this fight. ​


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Pulling hard for the dong.


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## Dan0 (Aug 22, 2008)

Will we be blessed with a Judo throw tonight?


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Dong is so underrated he's a legit fighter i'm also a fan of Nate but I strongly believe Dong will have a huge strength advantage also his sub defense is excellent. 

Having said that it's been proven that betting against a Diaz lately has turned out costing lots of people lots of money. 

Still thinking Kim by decision.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

I hate this fight because i don't want either to lose.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Pulling hard for the dong.


HAH!loltextfiller


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

OMG Stun Gun taunting Diaz and then dropping huge leather 

Epic ground battle too, this is awesome.


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## El Matador (Jun 16, 2010)

Damnit! Stupid thing just stopped working. Stun gun was looking good though.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

DHK has some excellent sub defense and a really smart ground game


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Dong talking back


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Toxic said:


> I think this has FOTN written all over it.


Called it also! 

Nate is one of the best fighters off the back!

No doubt!


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Awesome, awesome first round. Great ground battle. I love this fight so far.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Diaz' corner is just yelling "**** HIM UP!" over and over -.-


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

the positional chess matches on the back are really something we don't see much.


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## El Matador (Jun 16, 2010)

TraMaI said:


> Diaz' corner is just yelling "**** HIM UP!" over and over -.-


Ahh, I love the diaz brothers and the whole lotta class they bring to the sport. I wouldn't be surprised if Diaz wins via sharpened-toothbrush-stab.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Toxic said:


> the positional chess matches on the back are really something we don't see much.


 
Yup- great stuff from both guys. :thumbsup:

Stun Gun should have the first 2 rounds.​


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

TraMaI said:


> Diaz' corner is just yelling "**** HIM UP!" over and over -.-


And thats the mentality that separates the professionals from the meatheads stuck in high school jock mode. That type of mentality does not breed elite fighters


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Kim looking tired


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Diaz winning the standup.
Apart from the takedowns...not that much action from Kim! 


PS: Daaaamn. That Brittney is hot!!! falling in love again... :thumb02:


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Diaz's corner has no advice, he can't defend the take down and despite doing everything right off his back he is having no success.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Hot damn, Palmer is so freaking hot.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Wtf!!!!!!


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## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

Are you kidding me Yve.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

F**k this sh*t!

Kim is just too tired...!
That's all!


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

That was borderline but was still a retarded move from Diaz who was disregarding the rules either way.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

^ Agreed.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Toxic said:


> That was borderline but was still a retarded move from Diaz who was disregarding the rules either way.


Exactly. He knows the rules, why take the chance of a DQ or a point taken.


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## Dan0 (Aug 22, 2008)

Good job by Yves by recognizing the illegal strike.


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## Steroid Steve (Oct 1, 2010)

Nate is just too weak to actually pull of a submission on Kim.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Kim needs some freaking Cardio he is barely hanging in there after dominating two rounds.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

fading fast lol

2 rounds to 1 for Kim

Prediction: Garcia by split


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Kim won


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

That could almost be a draw because Kim practically did nothing offensively in the last round.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Extra round!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

29 - 28 Kim. Disappointed in his cardio, very impressed with his TDs, control, and sub defense.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

HELL Of a fight. Definite FotN so far.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Toxic said:


> That was borderline but was still a retarded move from Diaz who was disregarding the rules either way.


GTFO. nate couldn't even see his hand touching the floor.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

These fans are retarded y are they booing?


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

LOL My name is Stun Gun and I want GSP!!!!


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Why are people booing? Kim dominated two rounds, Nate had one minute of offense.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Always happy to see a Diaz loss.:thumb02:


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## Abrissbirne (Jul 4, 2010)

So glad that bum Diaz lost, cant stand the brothers


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

I like Stun Gun but damn- dude still can't work on his cardio enough to last the whole 3 rounds effectively.​


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Silva vs GSP just got derailed, if this dude gets cardio and wins his next fight him vs gsp would be on the radar.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

So what now? Fitch/Gun or Shields/Gun?

Also, as far as the knee thing, it looked to me like Nate pulled his hand off the ground while landing it so in essence his hand should've been considered planted.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

these fans are fucked up they have bood everyone who isn't american.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

WTF? Crowd booing an obvious win for Kim?

Perhaps they're pissed the Diaz brothers will have to charge more for his 420 on the streets since Nate lost his win bonus?


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## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Why are people booing? Kim dominated two rounds, Nate had one minute of offense.


I think they were booing how Kim won the fight and not the decision. I guess they didn't score the takedowns and domination from Kim. Good fight in my opinion. Both showed great grappling.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

guy incognito said:


> GTFO. nate couldn't even see his hand touching the floor.


Go have somebody stand in the position for you, you cant tell if its on the floor but you can sure as hell tell there arm is down which should be all the reason not to attempt it that you need.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

I feel that every time i watch an Yves Lavigne reffed fight i am disappointed in the quality of refereeing. Nate would've finished the fight then and there and his knee was legal. Stungun fought very effectively the first two rounds though.

Although it is a split second decision, it clearly changed the outcome.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

*He wants GSP?!!!!!!!!!!!!?!???*


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## Dan0 (Aug 22, 2008)

MRBRESK said:


> I feel that every time i watch an Yves Lavigne reffed fight i am disappointed in the quality of refereeing. Nate would've finished the fight then and there and his knee was legal. Stungun fought very effectively the first two rounds though.


Because the human eye can catch what slow-mo cameras barely can?


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

UFC_OWNS Got owned by me , hhahahahahah he actually thought i was stupid for picking the stun gun tut tut.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> Silva vs GSP just got derailed, if this dude gets cardio and wins his next fight him vs gsp would be on the radar.


Seriously?!
Are you for real?!

Honestly?!


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Stun Gun is an idiot. Change your name....hardly some stun gun. 

My name is Stun Gun and I want GSP? Get outta here with that crap.

He most likely won the fight. But just another case of TDs shouldn't be worth that much. Nate was more active off his back than Stun Gun was on top.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

limba said:


> Seriously?!
> Are you for real?!
> 
> Honestly?!


well the man is 6-0 in the ufc, all he needs to do is fight a contender and he is good. Plus who else is there left after fitch and sheilds?


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

MRBRESK said:


> I feel that every time i watch an Yves Lavigne reffed fight i am disappointed in the quality of refereeing. Nate would've finished the fight then and there and his knee was legal. Stungun fought very effectively the first two rounds though.
> 
> Although it is a split second decision, it clearly changed the outcome.


It was a clear win. The knee didnt change the outcome , and why would you attempt a knee when someones hand is grounded ? the only reason his hand lifted was because nate lifted his head so the ref was right and nate was wrong.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

limba said:


> Seriously?!
> Are you for real?!
> 
> Honestly?!


Winning fights get you title shots , he hasnt lost , so my question is are you serious........or are you new to how rankings work ?


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Dan0 said:


> Because the human eye can catch what slow-mo cameras barely can?


Regardless, it was a bad (but very tough) decision that changed the outcome of the fight. Overall Nate did more damage than Stun Gun, he was very active off his back, appeared to land many more strikes and didn't eat any damage.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

***** de Amigo said:


> It was a clear win. The knee didnt change the outcome , and why would you attempt a knee when someones hand is grounded ? the only reason his hand lifted was because nate lifted his head so the ref was right and nate was wrong.


How are you meant to see someones hand when you aren't even in sight of it? It wasn't intentional and it was legal.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

The knee regardless of whether it was worthy of a DQ depending on if the hand was down when it landed was thrown with bad intentions as Kim's hand is CLEARLY down when Nate throws the knee.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> well the man is 6-0 in the ufc, all he needs to do is fight a contender and he is good. Plus who else is there left after fitch and sheilds?


Wasn't that impressed. Got TDs, but we knew he would...Nate doesn't have much TDD. He didn't do much from top. His stand up is alright, nothing amazing at all. His cardio sucks.

I don't see how he has proven he is a contender. If he were to fight Alves or Kos or something and win...then sure.


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## Dan0 (Aug 22, 2008)

Toxic said:


> The knee regardless of whether it was worthy of a DQ depending on if the hand was down when it landed was thrown with bad intentions as Kim's hand is CLEARLY down when Nate throws the knee.


Exactly.


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## arkanoydz (Mar 15, 2010)

*stun gun*

Kim needs to do is drastically improve his striking. He would do so much more damage after gaining position. He seems to land frequently during standing exchanges but never seems to do any significant damage...

Also, Kim needs to fire his current translator- the guy does not understand Korean. At every translation he makes Kim look and sound like a weirdo.

Anyway, I thought it was pretty clear the first 2 rounds went to Kim, and I did bet on him, but I can't help but feel that he lacks that finishing ability to turn him into an exciting fighter to watch. His grappling is great but he needs to improve before calling out title shots like that...


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

MRBRESK said:


> How are you meant to see someones hand when you aren't even in sight of it? It wasn't intentional and it was legal.


No it wasnt legal since he had his hand grounded the only reason it lifted was because Diaz lifted his head so therefore its void and the right decision was made.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I don't know if that counts or if as long as the hand is up its up but reagardless. 

I don't know if Nate landed an illegal knee but he threw one.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Nate won that fight for sure if this were Pride rules (with the fight being scored as a whole rather than by the round), and personally I think he should have won under Unified rules too. Only someone who scores TD's and top control very heavily would call those first two rounds clear wins for Dong, there just wasn't a lot of offense from either side. However Nate was the only one threatening subs and Dong wasn't doing much GnP, he spent most of the time scrambling and transitioning. I think they could have gone either way, but Nate clearly won the third.

The FightMetric report is very interesting, seems Nate landed like twice as many strikes...

http://blog.fightmetric.com/2011/01/kim-vs-diaz-official-ufc-statistics.html


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> well the man is 6-0 in the ufc, all he needs to do is fight a contender and he is good. *Plus who else is there left after fitch and sheilds*?


Condit, Alves, Story, Ellenberger, BJ Penn!
I agree he needs a contender in order to advance in the rankings! But his prformance tonight was poor. 
He wants GSP and he was gassed after 2 rounds?!! :laugh: Imagine him against GSP in the cage for 5 rounds!! 

That makes me laugh!



***** de Amigo said:


> Winning fights get you title shots , he hasnt lost , so my question is are you serious........o*r are you new to how rankings work* ?


Actually ..... rankings don't work like that in the majority of the time!

Jim Miller
George Sotiropoulus
Jon Fitch
Yushin Okami....are just some examples of fighters who won their fights and still didn't get their shot!

Thing with Kim is: the fighters he beat aren't contenders. Except Sadollah and Diaz, the rest of them are weak: Tan, Parysian (he lost that fight actually) and Matt Brown or TJ Grant!! 
He is far from a title shot after tonight's performance!


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Nate was getting desperate. He did what he had to do to have a chance. 

Nate then proceeded to pounce on a weakened Kim. 



Toxic said:


> I don't know if that counts or if as long as the hand is up its up but reagardless.
> 
> I don't know if Nate landed an illegal knee but he threw one.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> Nate was getting desperate. He did what he had to do to have a chance.
> 
> Nate then proceeded to pounce on a weakened Kim.


uhhh... you don't think its possible that he didnt see kim's hand down there? one foul in a fight is really nothing to conspiracize about. GSP cupchecked Hughes what, 2 or 3 times in one fight.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

What?



HexRei said:


> uhhh... you don't think its possible that he didnt see kim's hand down there? one foul in a fight is really nothing to conspiracize about. GSP cupchecked Hughes what, 2 or 3 times in one fight.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> What?


Well, it sounds like you think Nate threw it knowing it would be illegal, so I was responding on that point.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Eh, it is so stupid when people put words in someone else's mouth to start these immature arguments. Believe whatever you want. 



HexRei said:


> Well, it sounds like you think Nate threw it knowing it would be illegal, so I was responding on that point.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> Eh, it is so stupid when people put words in someone else's mouth to start these immature arguments. Believe whatever you want.


what were you referring to then? you quoted toxic's post about the illegal knee and then said that nate "did what he had to do". What did you mean if not what I thought?


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

This is the last time I'll respond to you, seriously. There are a lot of childish goofs who start arguments for no reason whatsoever on this board. You are one of the worst in that regard. 



HexRei said:


> what were you referring to then? you quoted toxic's post about the illegal knee and then said that nate "did what he had to do". Are you saying you meant something else?


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

i don't know why you're flying off the handle, it's a pretty simple and innocuous question and I didn't try to start any fight, it's a discussion board and I was discussing just like you were. 

I'm beginning to think you're upset because I was on the money the first time. Even if that's the case we're just discussing a sport, no need to get heated.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

HexRei said:


> i don't know why you're flying off the handle, it's a pretty simple and innocuous question and I didn't try to start any fight, it's a discussion board and I was discussing just like you were.
> 
> I'm beginning to think you're upset because I was on the money the first time. Even if that's the case we're just discussing a sport, no need to get heated.


:thumbsup:

and you were right the first time.


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## anderton46 (Apr 23, 2010)

Solid performance but nothing special to see here. Stun gun won't remain unbeaten for long as he'll face bigger fighters who won't get so easily overpowered. I'd imagine a fighter with the same build as stun and the same abilities as nate beating him.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

anderton46 said:


> Solid performance but nothing special to see here. Stun gun won't remain unbeaten for long as he'll face bigger fighters who won't get so easily overpowered. I'd imagine a fighter with the same build as stun and the same abilities as nate beating him.





Strength or size had NOTHING to do with this fight.


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## JF_Savage (May 31, 2010)

I thought that Diaz won this fight. Although Kim kept top position for most of the fight he didn't really apply enough GnP or subs to secure a win IMHO.
Nate was working tooth and nail for some subs that looked really close at times- he stuffed a couple takedowns in the 3rd as well.

Nobody should judge nate for his antics/personality especially when its decision making time


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

the pride rles are better for judging bring them to the ufc not this lay and do nothing bullshit, nate won that fight due to damage, DHK did nothing and his judo is overrated he cant get any decent wrestler down. fitch and gsp will laugh at his dumbass


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

In my eyes, Diaz won as well. He was the only one going for any type of damage. Grappling should be lightly scored unless something comes of it. Not a single thing came of the Stun guns grappling. Diaz's last 20 seconds were more damage than all 3 combined for Stunner gunner.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

First of all, I thought this was a brilliant grappling contest. One of the most intriguing ground fights I've seen in a while and both of these guys are really good at what they do. I was actually sad when it was over.

I thought Diaz won the fight as well, but I knew Stun Gun would get the decision. He did all the things that you need to do to win two rounds within this system. That's just how this system works and it has failed to reflect what happened during the fight yet again.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

"My name is Stun Gun and I want GSP." Lolz...

He should face the following first.

Mike Swick
Rory McDonald
Then one big hitter. Could be Thiago Alves, Kos, or even Hardy then we'll talk about a title bout.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

God damn, i hate this UFC judging. They are not judging the criteria for a fight, an actual fight.

Nate won the fight, no doubt in my mind. He was the more active fighter on the ground, constantly working and looking to sub and finish. He also did the most damage with strikes and stun gun did no damage.

This is fighting, nate was the aggressor both on the feet and on the ground and did the most damage. Take downs are scored ridiculously highly. 

Bring back Pride.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> God damn, i hate this UFC judging. They are not judging the criteria for a fight, an actual fight.
> 
> Nate won the fight, no doubt in my mind. He was the more active fighter on the ground, constantly working and looking to sub and finish. He also did the most damage with strikes and stun gun did no damage.
> 
> ...


None of what you just typed happened. The only point in the fight where Nate was winning at anything was after he cheated and kneed him in the head while he was down on purpose. Stungun immediately shut down every submission he went for and clearly out landed him every time they were standing in the first two rounds and landed far harder strikes on the ground. You don't win fights by regaining guard.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

osmium said:


> None of what you just typed happened. The only point in the fight where Nate was winning at anything was after he cheated and kneed him in the head while he was down on purpose. Stungun immediately shut down every submission he went for and clearly out landed him every time they were standing in the first two rounds and landed far harder strikes on the ground. You don't win fights by regaining guard.


Erroneous, all erroneous.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I hate when people say "he was more active from the bottom" That is ludicrous. Of course Diaz was more active if he wasn't constantly trying to improve position Kim would have all the time in the world to pound his face in. Diaz wasn't looking to keep active as form of offense he was doing it as defense because he was on his back. He did not pull guard and only had to keep regaining positioning because Kim was advancing. If Diaz was such a threat at what point in the first two rounds was he even close to ending the fight? He never really had Kim in any significant risk of being finished till the end of the 3rd and even then it wasn't do or die by any means. Diaz did not want to be on his back and was never controlling that fight or a serious threat.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

I can see where Stun Gun won the fight with current rules/judging. TDs are worth way too much as we all know. When he got the TD, he played the position game while trying not to get subb'd. I think he had 1 powerful punch of GnP the whole fight.

I was not impressed with Stun Guns performance and I have no clue why he is calling out GSP. He took down Nate Diaz...not that big of an accomplishment. Nate's face looked like he wasn't even in a fight. All Stun Gun showed me in that fight is he can take down a guy with sub par wrestling.

The knee was illegal. But I think we can all agree it is a stupid rule. Why not have it be just 1 knee? The only thing 1 hand does is open up cheap touching of the ground so a guy can't kee you. It really is a dumb rule. When a guy is standing on 2 feet, it makes no sense that you can't knee him if he is touching the ground. But it is the rule.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Toxic said:


> I hate when people say "he was more active from the bottom" That is ludicrous. Of course Diaz was more active if he wasn't constantly trying to improve position Kim would have all the time in the world to pound his face in. Diaz wasn't looking to keep active as form of offense he was doing it as defense because he was on his back. He did not pull guard and only had to keep regaining positioning because Kim was advancing. If Diaz was such a threat at what point in the first two rounds was he even close to ending the fight? He never really had Kim in any significant risk of being finished till the end of the 3rd and even then it wasn't do or die by any means. Diaz did not want to be on his back and was never controlling that fight or a serious threat.


And Stun Gun never had any chance of a finish. Nate's face looked like he just entered the cage. Kim won the fight based on the scoring we have. But lets not act like he put on any great performance. He held his own standing. And he was able to take down a guy that is pretty easy to TD. 

His great Judo didn't even look that good. Nate reversed him a few times when he tried to Judo throw. Nate held his own with Stun Gun in all aspects. He just had 1 TD to STun Guns 3. 2 TDs won Kim the fight. And I guess "positioning" by staying on top of Nate for a little while. 

That is what we are getting to with this sport. A TD or 2 can be the difference in a win or loss. So in all wrestling is by far the easiest form of scoring points....by far.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Nate did nothing the first 2 rounds, I never said Kim was close to finishing but he did every bit as much if not more to finish the fight in the first two rounds and he did it while controlling the fight. You said Nate got a TD what did he do with it? You can look for every excuse in the world to give the guy on the bottom points. People just want to hate the scoring system that they are making excuses for a fighter that CLEARLY lost 2 rounds as to how he some how should of won. Under no honest scoring system could you score the first two rounds for Diaz.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Nate did nothing the first 2 rounds, I never said Kim was close to finishing but he did every bit as much if not more to finish the fight in the first two rounds and he did it while controlling the fight. You said Nate got a TD what did he do with it? You can look for every excuse in the world to give the guy on the bottom points. People just want to hate the scoring system that they are making excuses for a fighter that CLEARLY lost 2 rounds as to how he some how should of won. Under no honest scoring system could you score the first two rounds for Diaz.


I agree. I'm just pointing more to the fact that Kim's performance was really lackluster for calling out GSP...and many people's reaction to the fight. He won the fight, but you can't say he had a great performance. Would have been nice to seem more aggressiveness while he was on top. 

Just don't like fights like that. Diaz was trying to pull off any kind of sub, beat him up in the 3rd. And Kim won one on a couple TDs and smothering for 2 rounds. Just doesn't sit well with me, even though he won the fight....because like you said you can't give round 1 or 2 to Nate. Don't like Kim's style....even more sad to say you are Stun Gun and you want GSP. He can't even go 3 rounds. How is he going to go 5 with GSP? He needs some cardio and he needs to be more aggressive. He had a dominant position for much of the 1st 2 rounds and threw maybe 6 GnP punches in 2 rounds.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Cardio won't save him he has no business in GSP's cage.


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## anderton46 (Apr 23, 2010)

I'd love to see the look on his face if UFC did give him GSP. he'd probably instantly retire.


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## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Nate did nothing the first 2 rounds, I never said Kim was close to finishing but he did every bit as much if not more to finish the fight in the first two rounds and he did it while controlling the fight. You said Nate got a TD what did he do with it? You can look for every excuse in the world to give the guy on the bottom points. People just want to hate the scoring system that they are making excuses for a fighter that CLEARLY lost 2 rounds as to how he some how should of won. Under no honest scoring system could you score the first two rounds for Diaz.


This is truth and veracity.

Stun gun neutralized Nate in every way, until the illegal knee. And being the thug he was, Nate showed he doesn't respect this sport, his opponent, or the fans, and deliberately threw it out of frustration. 

It may be a stupid rule, but so is stopping at a red light at 3 a.m. w/ no cars around. Yet, if you blew the light, and got pulled over, you wouldn't argue w/ the judge about the stupidity.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Wait so people are thinking Diaz actually won that fight? Kim passed his guard constantly, shut down anything Diaz was trying to throw, took his back multiple times, landed way more shots (standing and on the ground) and even mounted him once. No way in hell did Diaz win that. You don't win a fight being defensive the whole time. If Diaz would've been offensive off his back by throwing elbows and actually ALMOST getting ssubmissions instead of just throwing up sloppy shit that got him passed 90% of the time I would've agreed, maybe, but as it stands SG fully won that fight.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

i think stun gun is an excellent gatekeeper for the WW division. Kind of slipping right into Karo's old role. I mean, if you can't get past the stun gun, what the hell are you going to do with the likes of GPS/Fitch/Koscheck???

I say Alves vs Kim!


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Toxic said:


> *Nate did nothing the first 2 rounds*, I never said Kim was close to finishing but he did every bit as much if not more to finish the fight in the first two rounds and he did it while controlling the fight. You said Nate got a TD what did he do with it? You can look for every excuse in the world to give the guy on the bottom points. People just want to hate the scoring system that they are making excuses for a fighter that CLEARLY lost 2 rounds as to how he some how should of won. Under no honest scoring system could you score the first two rounds for Diaz.


I agree with round 1, but round 2 is another story. Yeah, Kim was on top for most of the round, but he didn't pass AT ALL in the second. AT ALL. He just sat there in guard and covered up because Nate was throwing strikes from below and was threatening with submissions all round. He couldn't capitalize, but effectively the only thing Kim did in that round was get the takedown and secure top position (which he lost at some point). With the current system Kim wins this round, but in Japan I think Nate would have been awarded the victory.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> I agree with round 1, but round 2 is another story. Yeah, Kim was on top for most of the round, but he didn't pass AT ALL in the second. AT ALL. He just sat there in guard and covered up because Nate was throwing strikes from below and was threatening with submissions all round. He couldn't capitalize, but effectively the only thing Kim did in that round was get the takedown and secure top position (which he lost at some point). With the current system Kim wins this round, but in Japan I think Nate would have been awarded the victory.


No, he wouldn't win that round in japan people are seriously delusional about how rounds are scored in japan. Control isn't as favored but weak ass punches and subs that don't even get started before they are stopped aren't scored any more than in america. The difference in the japanese scoring system is damage is heavily favored which Kim won in that round. 

He did pass multiple times in round 2. Turtling on his side like that was preventing Kim from getting side control but that isn't your guard anymore it is essentially an awkward looking open half guard. Nate should have really been trying hard to hit sweeps from that position because Kim didn't have control over his lower body for a lot of it but instead he decided to dive for leglocks and regain guard and not come close to getting a sub. It should have been clear to him after round 1 that this guy is supremely skilled on the ground and he isn't subbing him.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> I agree with round 1, but round 2 is another story. Yeah, Kim was on top for most of the round, but he didn't pass AT ALL in the second. AT ALL. He just sat there in guard and covered up because Nate was throwing strikes from below and was threatening with submissions all round. He couldn't capitalize, but effectively the only thing Kim did in that round was get the takedown and secure top position (which he lost at some point). With the current system Kim wins this round, but in Japan I think Nate would have been awarded the victory.


Really no freaking way. In Japan Stun Gun likely would have won round 3 via being Asian.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Realistically, I don't see anyone getting past GSP right now. Having said that, a characterization as 'gatekeeper' is inaccurate. Kim is an up and coming contender at the moment. 

If he could ever improve his cardio (say, by fighting more than once every two years), he could become a legitimate contender. 

Alves Kim sounds like a great matchup. 



sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> i think stun gun is an excellent gatekeeper for the WW division. Kind of slipping right into Karo's old role. I mean, if you can't get past the stun gun, what the hell are you going to do with the likes of GPS/Fitch/Koscheck???
> 
> I say Alves vs Kim!


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## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

Bad decision, again too much credit given to top control when he was eating more leather than Nate.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> Wait so people are thinking Diaz actually won that fight? Kim passed his guard constantly, shut down anything Diaz was trying to throw, took his back multiple times, landed way more shots (standing and on the ground) and even mounted him once. No way in hell did Diaz win that. You don't win a fight being defensive the whole time. If Diaz would've been offensive off his back by throwing elbows and actually ALMOST getting ssubmissions instead of just throwing up sloppy shit that got him passed 90% of the time I would've agreed, maybe, but as it stands SG fully won that fight.


he landed over twice as many strikes. attempting subs from the bottom is offense. kim won the control portion of Effective Grappling criteria but that's about it.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

michelangelo said:


> Realistically, I don't see anyone getting past GSP right now. Having said that, a characterization as 'gatekeeper' is inaccurate. Kim is an up and coming contender at the moment.
> 
> If he could ever improve his cardio (say, by fighting more than once every two years), he could become a legitimate contender.
> 
> Alves Kim sounds like a great matchup.


How is he an up and coming contender. Because he is "undefeated"?

He lost to a Karo. Karo when he was/is pretty messed up. Not back in the day Karo. He proved he could TD Nate Diaz. He proved he could keep down the much weaker fighter with sub par wrestling.

I wasn't impressed with this fight much at all. He hasn't beat many good fighters. Amir...but why is Amir considered good? 

Nate reversed a couple of his amazing "judo" throws. Kim's standup is pretty average. Seems to be a crappy version of Jon Fitch, with less BJJ.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> Realistically, I don't see anyone getting past GSP right now. Having said that, a characterization as 'gatekeeper' is inaccurate. Kim is an up and coming contender at the moment.
> 
> If he could ever improve his cardio (say, by fighting more than once every two years), he could become a legitimate contender.
> 
> Alves Kim sounds like a great matchup.


True, I'm a big fan of the stun gun, but he definitely needs to improve.

In the wrestling divi..I mean welterweight division I'd say Dong is legitimately hovering between the fifth and eight position. I just don't see him climbing the ladder much higher without some vast improvements in a couple significant aspects of his game.

It may be too early to call him a gatekeeper, but I see him as a good opponent for anyone in the WW division regardless of if Kim is moving up or down the rungs.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Did anybody else ROFLZ when he said, "my name is Stun Gun I want GSP!" Oh fawk...I almost threw up my drink...lolz. After multiple decision wins a no contest which the "peds" clearly did not really bolster Karo's game. He doesn't really impress me at all. I'm rooting for the Mongolian Wolf!


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

HexRei said:


> he landed over twice as many strikes. attempting subs from the bottom is offense. kim won the control portion of Effective Grappling criteria but that's about it.


No, attempting subs isn't scorable offense if you can't even get a step before locking it in completely. Just as throwing a jab that misses by 3 feet isn't scored. Those "punches" he was throwing should be valued at about 1/100th of a jab. They weren't even arm punches they were more like being slapped by a child. Those crappy punches Kim was landing with his head down had 10 times the power of what diaz was doing. 

The stuff Anderson and Gegard land from guard is effective striking off of your back they get extension and rotation on them and you still can't justify them winning rounds most of the time off of that.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Just what I expected 

StunGun is a top contender now :thumbsup:

The only thing he finally needs to get straight is his terrible cardio.. wich almost coast him this fight in the third :thumbsdown:

Please get that fixed finally!!! Otherwise I don't see him winning against the top 3-5 in the devision.

WAR Kim!!! :thumb02:


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> Did anybody else ROFLZ when he said, "my name is Stun Gun I want GSP!" Oh fawk...I almost threw up my drink...lolz. After multiple decision wins a no contest which the "peds" clearly did not really bolster Karo's game. He doesn't really impress me at all. I'm rooting for the Mongolian Wolf!


 I thought that was funny too. Awww, isn't that cute, he thinks he's a contender. 

He was better than Diaz, but that doesn't say much. The really funny part is, that when GSP beats Sheilds, if he stays at WW, it's actually conceivable that if Kim got another win over a decent WW, they might give him a title shot. Not because he is an awesome fighter, but because he would be undefeated in a WW div where GSP has beaten every other decent WW on multiple occasions.

Something just as funny is Diaz losing to wrestlers at LW, and then thinking a move UP in size and strength will somehow help him. Good call genius, brilliant meta-game strategy.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

I don't understand the Kim disrespect. He tooled Diaz on the ground and in the clinch. He was 5 steps ahead of everything Diaz was trying to do on the mat. Even Maynard wanted nothing to do with Diaz on the ground.



And yeah I'm sick of Nate getting mad that fightmetric says he outstruck someone, but everyone knows he lost the standup. He has the worst striking in the UFC, I don't even understand it. Does he just not train it? Ugh it's ridiculous.


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## rachel<3shogun (Jan 4, 2011)

khoveraki said:


> I don't understand the Kim disrespect. He tooled Diaz on the ground and in the clinch. He was 5 steps ahead of everything Diaz was trying to do on the mat. Even Maynard wanted nothing to do with Diaz on the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> And yeah I'm sick of Nate getting mad that fightmetric says he outstruck someone, but everyone knows he lost the standup. He has the worst striking in the UFC, I don't even understand it. Does he just not train it? Ugh it's ridiculous.


kim shouldn't have won that fight. he took diaz down, laid on him, & did nothing else. the only reason he won that fight is because he got the takedowns. diaz was way more active from the bottom than kim was on top. not to mention kim would have been knocked out & the fight would have been over if he hadn't pulled that 3 points on the ground garbage.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

rachel<3shogun said:


> kim shouldn't have won that fight. he took diaz down, laid on him, & did nothing else. the only reason he won that fight is because he got the takedowns. diaz was way more active from the bottom than kim was on top. not to mention kim would have been knocked out & the fight would have been over if he hadn't pulled that 3 points on the ground garbage.


Agreed Diaz was highly active off his back in the second and Kim did nothing with two take downs and imo Nate took the third.


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