# Randy Couture: "Anderson got his ass whipped, he didnt really win"



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

> It appears UFC Hall of Famer Randy Couture has been dipping into middleweight Chael Sonnen’s Kool-Aid. Couture, who can usually be counted on for an informed opinion and intricate analysis, was recently asked to weigh in on Sonnen’s upcoming fight with Anderson Silva and gave an answer possibly raising a few eyebrows outside of West Linn, Oregon.
> 
> *“It’s kind of odd. Normally I would say that the onus is on the guy who won the first fight to anticipate the changes the loser is going to make and get the same outcome,” said Couture, a former Team Quest teammate of Sonnen’s, in a conversation with MMAFighting. “It’s guess-work. It’s harder for the guy who won (the first time) in the second fight.”*
> 
> ...


Lol the guy that typed that underlined portion up must have had a quick little brain malfunction. Its so tough to read haha. Anyone know what it was supposed to be??? I know what the sentence was supposed to express but i cant figure out the words Randy actually used.

Not sure if i want to comment on what Randy said. We all have our own opinions on the matter and this is one of those things that chances are wont be a polite discussion for long and even more no one will change their opinion on the matter. So i tip my hat to you posters and il see myself out. 

Good luck.. :confused05:


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## Hooligan222 (Jun 26, 2011)

Damn, Machida kicks hard!


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Another BJJ non believer apparently. Chael tapped so Silva did REALLY win. Yeah I get the point he is making, that Chael won psychologicaly but he has expressed it so poorly!


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

And the Randy fake nice guy persona fails again. Still bitter at Anderson's training partner Machida kicking his head off probably.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

I don't see what's wrong with his statement. It's obviously Anderson who has to adjust, not Chael.


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## HaVoK (Dec 31, 2006)

The interview was done with Luke Thomas from MMAfighting.com. The way it is worded here is out of context.

Watch the actual interview.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Well, Anderson did win, Chael tapped and we all saw it.

But after July 7th, Team Sonnen will be sending fruit baskets to the home of Mr. Magahales.


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

Ok did any of you read what he posted or are you just commenting off the thread title?

He knows Anderson won the match, he just lost the fight..meaning he is the one that has to do adjustment to his gameplan coming into this next fight not Sonnen.

I am with randy 100% on his comment and thought it went without question.


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## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

M_D said:


> Ok did any of you read what he posted or are you just commenting off the thread title?
> 
> He knows Anderson won the match, he just lost the fight..meaning he is the one that has to do adjustment to his gameplan coming into this next fight not Sonnen.
> 
> I am with randy 100% on his comment and thought it went without question.


Exactly, nothing to do with any stupid fake nice guy shlt or ANYTHING close, he is just pointing out the obvious to anyone who understands the point he is TRYING to make.
1.Chael fought the best fight except for getting caught in the triangle.
2. Anderson wants to fight a different fight than he fought last time.
Thats the bottom line of what he is saying. .:confused02::confused02::confused02::confused02:


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

I don't see any problem with the underlined sentence.

I also agree with the posters above me and Randy's analysis.


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## DanTheJu (Mar 3, 2007)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> I don't see what's wrong with his statement. It's obviously Anderson who has to adjust, not Chael.


This!

What he is saying is Chaels game plan worked perfectly sans his Triangle Defense. Anderson had a game plan that did not work at all, other than a Triangle.

So, Chael has to only work on his Triangle Defense, while Anderson has to come up with a completely different game plan.

Makes perfect sense and there is no hate in any of what he said!


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## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

This is the interview where he says that:




I dont like Sonnen, but I dont think anything Couture said was crazy or out of line. He also said that Anderson has the advantage in that he not only won the first fight, he has the room to change his strategy and make improvements for the rematch. While Sonnen is most likely going to do what worked for him last time, as expected. Anderson can fight differently and change tactics and be more unpredictable, Sonnen will be inclined to fight the same as he always has and be predictable. He tries to be as neutral as he can and his points could be good and bad for either fighter.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

It's not what he says, which can be taken as neutral opinion on how the events actually were. 

It's the way he says it, with strong words like "got his ass whupped" or "didn't really win the fight" etc. He balances it out with his calm tone and the neutral and obviously correct observations about the strategy and the way the fight went. However, his choice of words makes it likely he's taking a sneaky jab underneath all that scientist like facade. 

It's easy to say what he said without obviously insulting anderson and praising sonnen if he wanted to be truly neutral.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> I don't see what's wrong with his statement. It's obviously Anderson who has to adjust, not Chael.


Actually no. Chael needs to adjust his pillows for hands and actually finish him. Usually when a guy spends 4 rounds on top position pounding away...they get a stoppage. Well unless you are GSP. 

Find it funny when Chael tap'd meaning he said UNCLE. Said "I GIVE UP"....but he didn't really lose. 

When you tap and say I can take no more...it is the ultimate loss. Anderson did in 15 seconds what Chael couldn't do for 4.5 rounds. 

Chael could have held on but instead he tried the ***** shit FAKE TAP! Where he wanted to hardly tap and then act like he didn't after. AND IT DIDN"T WORK!

Perhaps Chael should learn how to man up and finish a guy.


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## rul3z (Jun 27, 2010)

Not even being in the HALL of FAME will make him forget that Machida Karate Kick 

VIVA Brazil, Viva Anderson


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Actually no. Chael needs to adjust his pillows for hands and actually finish him. Usually when a guy spends 4 rounds on top position pounding away...they get a stoppage. Well unless you are GSP.
> 
> Find it funny when Chael tap'd meaning he said UNCLE. Said "I GIVE UP"....but he didn't really lose.
> 
> ...


Except that additionally to the actual tap he also verbally tapped and never claimed to not have tapped. So this basically only happened in your imagination.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

I'd say Anderson needs to change his gameplan more than Chael does, he is perfectly fine with taking it to the ground again and wearing Anderson out. Anderson has more riding on this, sure he beat Chael already, but this is a guy who is talking mad shit about you, and with Anderson responding the way he did recently about giving him the worst beating ever. Yes, I'd say Anderson has more to change in this up coming fight.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

I hate when people overreact because something someone said involves their idol. Silva won the fight technically but obviously doesn't want to get punched in the face more than anyone else ever has been in the UFC again, people are so ignorant and childish sometimes.

And Anderson did get his ass whooped, anyone denying that is an idiot, sorry to say it. Getting hit 320 times while hitting back 64 times in a 22 minute time period is getting your ass whooped. Nobody here is arguing who the belt correctly belongs to, obviously Anderson, he won fair and square. It's not like people say Brock dominated Carwin when they fought, no, he got manhandled and then got lucky when the other guy couldn't finish.


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

why does the fact that sonnen was juiced to the gills get omitted when ppl dissect his performance


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

it doesn't

did Chael beat up Anerson for 4.5 rounds: yes
was Chael juiced on TRT: **** yes

most of us on this board can think and comprehend the situation logically


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I agree with Randy.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Sports_Nerd said:


> I don't see any problem with the underlined sentence.
> 
> I also agree with the posters above me and Randy's analysis.


There isnt one. For some reason in the "text" format on my screen there were a few words missing. But i just went over to read it cuz of your comment and the missing words were there.


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## killua (Mar 4, 2012)

Well for a start, Sonnen has to adjust his steroid abuse for this fight. I don't know how Silva will react to that though.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

rabakill said:


> And Anderson did get his ass whooped, anyone denying that is an idiot, sorry to say it. Getting hit 320 times while hitting back 64 times in a 22 minute time period is getting your ass whooped.


Those 64 blows Anderson dealt Sonnen did far more damage then anything Sonnen threw. I dont know what your definition of whooping somebody's ass is, but it my book it usually involves you hurting the other guy more then he hurts you... and most importantly, like, winning the fight... Not giving up because you cant handle the groin odours of a Jedi master. 

All in all... absolutely not an ass whooping by any stretch. More like being annoyed by a fly for 22 minutes before splatting the little fecker.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Soojooko said:


> Those 64 blows Anderson dealt Sonnen did far more damage then anything Sonnen threw. I dont know what your definition of whooping somebody's ass is, but it my book it usually involves you hurting the other guy more then he hurts you... and most importantly, like, winning the fight... Not giving up because you cant handle the groin odours of a Jedi master.
> 
> All in all... absolutely not an ass whooping by any stretch. More like being annoyed by a fly for 22 minutes before splatting the little fecker.


you again huh. 99% of the people on this forum can understand logic and reality. You are not one of them, there is nothing to discuss here.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

rabakill said:


> you again huh. 99% of the people on this forum can understand logic and reality. You are not one of them, there is nothing to discuss here.


Flattery will get you nowhere bro.


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## above (Jun 20, 2012)

rabakill said:


> you again huh. 99% of the people on this forum can understand logic and reality. You are not one of them, there is nothing to discuss here.


That's just a dumb response you conjured there. Attacking the man instead of constructing an argument. That's an ad hominem fallacy, the very opposite of logic.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

rabakill said:


> you again huh. 99% of the people on this forum can understand logic and reality. You are not one of them, there is nothing to discuss here.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Soojooko said:


> Those 64 blows Anderson dealt Sonnen did far more damage then anything Sonnen threw. I dont know what your definition of whooping somebody's ass is, but it my book it usually involves you hurting the other guy more then he hurts you... and most importantly, like, winning the fight... Not giving up because you cant handle the groin odours of a Jedi master.
> 
> All in all... absolutely not an ass whooping by any stretch. More like being annoyed by a fly for 22 minutes before splatting the little fecker.


I seem to recall Sonnen knocking Silva on his butt a few times, but hey... we'll just ignore facts. Seems to be a common trait amongst Silva fans.


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## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

It shouldn't really come as a surprise that the guy who got his black belt in BJJ for submitting a boxer completely undervalues it. Oh and about Anderson "getting his ass kicked..










That's Anderson after the fight. Looks pretty normal to me.










And then we have Chael. This picture was taken even later then Anderson's at the press conference. Who looks like who kicked who's ass? (Not to mention Chael looked like he got stuck in a meat grinder directly after he was submitted)


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> I seem to recall Sonnen knocking Silva on his butt a few times, but hey... we'll just ignore facts. Seems to be a common trait amongst Silva fans.


He slipped.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Except that additionally to the actual tap he also verbally tapped and never claimed to not have tapped. So this basically only happened in your imagination.


Never said that he denied it after the fact.

The actual tap was a half assed tapp that INITIALLY Sonnen was acting like it didn't happen. He was on top of Silva for an extra few seconds and seemed confused. 

So no, it really didn't just happen in my imagination. It actually happened. Or at the very least looked like it.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Kreed said:


> why does the fact that sonnen was juiced to the gills get omitted when ppl dissect his performance


Not sure. Perhaps because they want to believe that was the best Silva in there and Sonnen beat his ass.

Their delusion will only last another week. 

Plain and simple that was the BEST I have ever saw Sonnen. And that is some of the worst I have ever seen from Silva.

At Chael's best with extra TRT he still lost to the worst Silva we have seen. Silva was slow as hell and was hesitant to open up. His footwork wasn't there either.



Soojooko said:


> Those 64 blows Anderson dealt Sonnen did far more damage then anything Sonnen threw. I dont know what your definition of whooping somebody's ass is, but it my book it usually involves you hurting the other guy more then he hurts you... and most importantly, like, winning the fight... Not giving up because you cant handle the groin odours of a Jedi master.
> 
> All in all... absolutely not an ass whooping by any stretch. More like being annoyed by a fly for 22 minutes before splatting the little fecker.


Best post of the thread. Chael did dominate Silva with positioning. But kicked his ass? How is a guy on top for 4 plus straight rounds and never landing anything that truly hurt Silva kicking his ass? He out-wrestled him plain and simple. 

Sad when a grown ass man who talked so much shit couldn't even muster up enough to finish a man that was underneath him for 4.5 rounds. But then finds a way to tap out within seconds.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Canadian Psycho said:


> I seem to recall Sonnen knocking Silva on his butt a few times, but hey... we'll just ignore facts. Seems to be a common trait amongst Silva fans.


Actually they each dropped each other once to the best of my recollection.

But Randy is correct. The onus is currently on Anderson to nullify or counter the wrestling of Chael Sonnen but he has 25 minutes to do just that. That's a long time to be in the cage with Anderson. He doesn't wilt. He doesn't get demoralized. 

That - to me - is the key.

Anderson has - regardless of what you think about his personality - proven to be a champion. He'll fight injured and has done so multiple times. He finishes any fight that he is trying to finish. He has come back from being dominated to win. That's damned impressive.

Meanwhile Chael hasn't shown that same champion's mentality. He has choked in every major match of his career. In both wrestling and mma. He never placed higher than 5th in any major wrestling competition. He's lost the only matches he has had for major mma titles. The man himself has said that he has mental issues regarding high profile matches and sees a sports therapist for them. He does his best to avoid talking about any losses. 

It doesn't paint an image of confidence. I'm really getting the Kenny Florian feel from Sonnen. Good fighter who chokes when the pressure's on. At least that's how I see things.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

deadmanshand said:


> Actually they each dropped each other once to the best of my recollection.
> 
> But Randy is correct. The onus is currently on Anderson to nullify or counter the wrestling of Chael Sonnen but he has 25 minutes to do just that. That's a long time to be in the cage with Anderson. He doesn't wilt. He doesn't get demoralized.


Not sure how it is on Silva from keeping Chael off him? When it was that exact position that lost Chael the fight? So Silva NEEDS to keep Chael from getting on top of him all fight....but that is where Chael lost the last fight? Does that make any sense?

Chael has lost pretty much all of his fights by Sub. If anything that means Chael needs to do something about his sad BJJ game. 

Chael won't feel comfortable on top. He shouldn't. He sucks from there and always has losing by sub time after time.

If anyone needs to change their game it is Chael. He loses in similar fashion all the time but doesn't seem to correct it. 

Chael has 25 minutes to sit on Silva throwing pansy punches without being sub'd. Good Luck.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Yeah, he only lasted a pathetic 23.5 minutes last time. Dude has no chance in hell.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Yeah, he only lasted a pathetic 23.5 minutes last time. Dude has no chance in hell.


Yea and he lost just how he ALWAYS loses. He dominates by being on top and keeping busy with punches that don't hurt anyone. Then he gets tapped. 

It has happened like 8 times in his career if you have followed it. 

No one here said he has no chance....

Chael is the one who folded while Silva....like a real champ stayed in there and finished his ass. 

Just mark it down as another sub loss for Sonnen....it has happened many times before.


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## HaVoK (Dec 31, 2006)

Soojooko said:


> Those 64 blows Anderson dealt Sonnen did far more damage then anything Sonnen threw. I dont know what your definition of whooping somebody's ass is, but it my book it usually involves you hurting the other guy more then he hurts you... and most importantly, like, winning the fight... Not giving up because you cant handle the groin odours of a Jedi master.
> 
> All in all... absolutely not an ass whooping by any stretch. More like being annoyed by a fly for 22 minutes before splatting the little fecker.



You either failed to watch the actual fight, and/or never been in an actual fight.:confused03:


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

HaVoK said:


> You either failed to watch the actual fight, and/or never been in an actual fight.:confused03:


*sigh*
The sense of humour is weak in this thread.

I thought it was taken for granted that all Sonnen threads shall be full if in-factual bollocks? The rules laid out by the great mono-testicled one himself.


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## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

HaVoK said:


> You either failed to watch the actual fight, and/or never been in an actual fight.:confused03:


We get it, Chael hit him alot more. The difference is Anderson showed no signs of damage while Chael was full of blood and cuts from Anderson hitting him *off his back*.

Quantity=/=Quality, at least as far as damage from strikes is concerned. If you were ever in a real fight you would know that as well.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Randy isn't saying Anderson didn't win or deserve the win. He's talking about the usual strategy in a situation like this, where the guy who lost has to change things up significantly and the winner can just do what he did before, a second time. In this case it is interesting because yeah, all Chael should be training to do is exactly what he did last time, but without letting his defense slip toward the end, while Anderson really should be making some big training changes to defend that TD or at least secure the sub faster because that was almost an L for him.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Sterl said:


> We get it, Chael hit him alot more. The difference is Anderson showed no signs of damage while Chael was full of blood and cuts from Anderson hitting him *off his back*.
> 
> Quantity=/=Quality, at least as far as damage from strikes is concerned. If you were ever in a real fight you would know that as well.


Exactly.

Silva looked a little fatigued. Chael looked fatigued, bruised, cut, and happy that the ref saw him tap out. 

People that back certain wrestlers don't understand damage. They think "staying busy" is HUGE just by pitter pattering with fists. 

Silva was tough enough and good enough to take everything Chael had and still get his hand raised.

Chael wasn't tough enough nor good enough not to tap out and ending the fight for himself when it got into deep waters.

That is why Silva is a champion and Sonnen never was of anything even semi-relevant in MMA.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Come on guys, relax and cut the nonsense. Nobody wants to hear this kind of stuff, seriously.


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## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Silva looked a little fatigued. Chael looked fatigued, bruised, cut, and happy that the ref saw him tap out.
> 
> ...


And that is exactly why I don't understand why people are acting like Chael is just going to finish what he started. The fact of the matter is Chael had Anderson exactly where he wanted him for 23.5 and minutes, but didn't negatively effect Anderson anymore then fatiguing him. Couple that with his boosted TRT levels and Anderson's rib injury (yeah, I went there), and you have the perfect storm that Chael still wasn't able to escape.

I like Chael, but I just think that's the most realistic way to look at this fight.


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## Zenhalo (Sep 9, 2006)

Wrong Randolph- He got his ass beat and still managed to win. Big difference that "didn't really win". If he didn't really win, no way Chael- (who by your 'been hit too many times in the head logic' actually won) would be fighting him again.


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

Cocaines a hell of a drug eh Randy? 

lol but in all honesty, Randy needs to layoff the trt it must have messed up his judgement.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

You guys need to read the context of the quote. He didn't claim that Andy didn't win the fight in a real sense.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

HexRei said:


> You guys need to read the context of the quote. He didn't claim that Andy didn't win the fight in a real sense.


No. We all read it. He said exactly what the title reads. 

Just because he is breaking down who he thinks has to adjust doesn't make thr comment any different. 

He said Silva got his ass whooped and he didn't really win the fight. Then he went on to try and make it sound like an analogy. 

What we have learned? Randy is as delusional as Chael. But hey, they are team quest buddies from back in the day. 

Randy should shut up, unless he wants to get booted in the face again.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> No. We all read it. He said exactly what the title reads.
> 
> Just because he is breaking down who he thinks has to adjust doesn't make thr comment any different.
> 
> ...


I was actually responding to the people talking about the "didn't really win" comment. Randy was not suggesting Andy didn't actually win. He was saying that Chael did exactly what he wanted to, enforced his gameplan, and won most of the fight by quite a margin until Andy caught him, and so his only adjustment needs to be be able to do the same exact thing for additional two minutes this time. He didn't "try to make it sound like an analogy", he was clearly talking about what each fighter faces in terms of preparing for the second meeting and how it differs from a lot of rematches. 

Anyway he was asked his opinion by a media outlet, he's far more experienced fighter and strategist than anyone here, I think he's entitled to voice it.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

The morally bankrupt cheater club sure sticks together.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

I think I know what he is saying.

I think it's that Silva won the fight on the record but what does the fact that he got the crap kicked out of him for 4 and s half rounds do for him mentally? It's a win on the records but could be a moral loss.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

Dementia is hitting Randy hard. The longer this mouth piece hangs around, the less I like him. Hey Randy, give Chael some of you magic testosterone supplements...or do you guys already share the same needle?

I think Silva is going to lay a beating on Chael this time. Yeah, Silva will adjust his game. Contrary to popular belief, he doesn't have to - because he won last time. Stop trying to turn a loss into a victory Chael. 

Chael is actually the guy who needs to adjust more, as if Silva has worked on his TDD, which I am sure he has, do you honestly think that Chael wins the stand-up if he can't get Silva to the ground. Chael needs to improve both his ground game (as slaps won't win the fight) and he needs much, much better stand up. 

Sweet dreams Chael...maybe Randy can tuck you in after the fight.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

You Silva fans certainly are a jaded, smarmy bunch. 

What is the issue? Couture comes out and says that Silva won the fight, but Chael won the war, which is arguably true, and you lot feel it necessary to lambaste him? The man is MMA's nice guy and calls a spade a spade. Anderson made Sonnen tap. But he was also on his ass for 4.5 rounds. This FACT is never going to change, regardless of such widespread wilful blindness. You don't think Silva knows he was on the brink of defeat? You don't think Silva wants to make a statement in this next fight with a more dominant win? He's chomping at the bit to make an example out of Sonnen.

And the fact is Anderson more or less has no choice but to come out and put a real whooping on Chael. You people with your ridiculous 'Anderson is going to blast him in the first round' remarks - despite the previous fight going precisely the opposite - have left him with little option. Anything short of Silva absolutely demolishing Sonnen isn't going to mean squat because of you, his fans. People give GSP fans a hard time, but you Silva fans are the absolute worst. 

God forbid a seasoned vet of the sport and a legend in his own right say one word against your exalted leader. I can't wait until this fight is over. No matter who wins or loses, you people have sucked the fun right out of it.


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## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> You Silva fans certainly are a jaded, smarmy bunch.
> 
> What is the issue? Couture comes out and says that Silva won the fight, but Chael won the war, which is arguably true, and you lot feel it necessary to lambaste him? The man is MMA's nice guy and calls a spade a spade. Anderson made Sonnen tap. But he was also on his ass for 4.5 rounds. This FACT is never going to change, regardless of such widespread wilful blindness. You don't think Silva knows he was on the brink of defeat? You don't think Silva wants to make a statement in this next fight with a more dominant win? He's chomping at the bit to make an example out of Sonnen.
> 
> ...


And again, I like Chael myself I just think its a little hard to see how he makes history repeat itself without the perfect scenario he had the last time he fought Anderson.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I don't necessarily disagree. It's a tall bloody order to finish Silva or grind out a decision without getting tapped. I'm completely realistic when it comes to that truth, regardless of my rooting for Sonnen. I just don't see why people are jumping all over Couture for what is a fairly accurate statement. Well, I do, actually... people are commenting without reading, and are therefore missing out on an important little element known as context.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

I'm on team "in my universe people who really get their 'ass whooped' and get hit 300 times with real punches in the face get carried to the hospital at best if they don't land in the morgue right away and they don't sit happily at a press conference with their championship belt right in front of them". Unless your definition of an "ass whooping" equals that of a little BDSM spanking powerwise, you watch too much WWE if you think that Sonnen really hurt Silva with his little rabbit punches. People who do full contact combat sports regularly get punched harder in sparring than by 95% of Sonnen's strikes in that fight.

I don't know, but I have a slight assumption of who random people on the street would guess who got his "ass whooped" in a fight against each other if you show them pictures...

this guy









or that one























Yes, Sonnen apparently dominated Silva, but he did so with his wrestling, holding dominant position and throwing alibi pillow punches to pretend he'd be working so they wouldn't get stand up by the referee - that's not the same as an "ass whooping" via striking. If you wan't to know what an "ass whooping" with real intent looks like, go and watch the Jones vs Rua fight or Emelianenko vs Silva.


As for the changing of the strategy for the next fight - I think Silva will definetly do so, because I firmly believe that Silva DID want to make that first fight a BJJ showcase. Him walking in on fight night in a Gi, which he usually didn't do before, after Sonnen insulted Silva's mentor Nogueira and their BJJ is only one indication. But during the fight, as far as my memory serves me well, Silva also absolutely rarely or even never really tried to sweep nor to wall walk. He also didn't use rubber guard nor closed guard with holding on to Sonnen so the referee would stand them up. He didn't really look uncomfortable on his back. What he did was punching/elbowing from his back and attempting a triangle choke which eventually succeded. Next time, Silva most certainly WILL fight harder against Sonnen's take down attempts and if taken down, he will put more effort to get up again. Silva will show more of his full arsenal.

Sonnen will have his chances again, but I do think that the next fight is going to be much harder for him than the first one.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Randy Couture is the most overrated MMa fighter ever. However you gotta read that interview between the lines. Silva did win, but Sonnen clearly was dominating the fight for the most part. 

1 week from today the sport will change, either Silva wins and put all the haters to a rest. Or Chael Sonnen does the impossible and beats the goat and becomes the p4p best fighter in the world. I do believe Chael has the style to beat Jon Jones,GSP,etc. He is not scared to get hit, and would break you down mentally with his wrestling. That is the style to beat Jon Jones and GSP.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> You Silva fans certainly are a jaded, smarmy bunch.
> 
> What is the issue? Couture comes out and says that Silva won the fight, but Chael won the war, which is arguably true, and you lot feel it necessary to lambaste him? The man is MMA's nice guy and calls a spade a spade. Anderson made Sonnen tap. But he was also on his ass for 4.5 rounds. This FACT is never going to change, regardless of such widespread wilful blindness. You don't think Silva knows he was on the brink of defeat? You don't think Silva wants to make a statement in this next fight with a more dominant win? He's chomping at the bit to make an example out of Sonnen.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't call myself a Silva "fan", but I sure know who won the fight and who is the all-around better fighter. Chael had a good day, a very good day, in that fight - but he still lost. 

The whole, "Silva won the fight, but Chael won the war" is inane. Chael tapped because he was beaten - within the rules, within the time limit. Deal with it. 

Everything else is 'ifs' and 'buts'. Silva won the battle and the war...just imagine if Anderson's triangle arm bar was allowed to progress to its logical conclusion. Chael did nothing to conclusively end that fight. 

...and I'll say it again: Silva has far less adjusting to do than Chael does.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

marcthegame said:


> 1 week from today the sport will change, either Silva wins and put all the haters to a rest. Or Chael Sonnen does the impossible and beats the goat and becomes the p4p best fighter in the world. *I do believe Chael has the style to beat Jon Jones,GSP,etc.* He is not scared to get hit, and would break you down mentally with his wrestling. That is the style to beat Jon Jones and GSP.


This is insane. His style would falter because both of them are far superior wrestlers. How many times has Jones been taken down? How many times has GSP been taken down? Both have tremendous takedown defense and takedowns. Where as Chael's tdd is not that great. Everyone who has tried to take him down has done so and you say that he will beat two of the best takedown artists in mma?

And Chael will not be the p4p best if he beats Silva. He will have been a bad style match up. He would have a long way to go to match what the other champions have accomplished.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

I think I gave most of the people here too much credit. This is just pure nuthugging for either side with very little objective conversation. It's like saying one thing as neutrally as possible is taken as hatred for one side's golden boy, ffs this forum needs to get it's shit together. This is the place where we aren't allowed to like both fighters, because if you do that means a slight propensity to cheer for someone is taken as hatred towards somebody else


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Voiceless said:


> I'm on team "in my universe people who really get their 'ass whooped' and get hit 300 times with real punches in the face get carried to the hospital at best if they don't land in the morgue right away and they don't sit happily at a press conference with their championship belt right in front of them". Unless your definition of an "ass whooping" equals that of a little BDSM spanking powerwise, you watch too much WWE if you think that Sonnen really hurt Silva with his little rabbit punches. People who do full contact combat sports regularly get punched harder in sparring than by 95% of Sonnen's strikes in that fight.
> 
> I don't know, but I have a slight assumption of who random people on the street would guess who got his "ass whooped" in a fight against each other if you show them pictures...
> 
> ...




Sonnen actually really doesnt look bad at all in the last 2 pictures. And even in the first one a slight cut can cause that much blood and more.
Chael Sonnen is a white man who bruises easy and not only does he bruise easy but it ends up looking worse then it is. As evidence by all of his fights. Anderson Silva is a black man who doesnt bruise as easy and if he does finally manage to bruise his skin color would make it alot harder to tell.

I bruise easily and have gotten plenty off black eyes or bruises on my face from punches that didnt hurt and if i didnt have a mirror i wouldnt even know a bruise was there. Its just one of those things some white people have to deal with. No big deal..

This is just common sense. Why people keep using "Look at his face and look at my face" is so incredibly stupid and bias its beyond belief imho. We all watched the fight and we all saw what happened. Chael Sonnen kicked the crap out of Anderson for almost 25 minutes but then he got rocked and submitted. Those are there are the facts. /THREAD.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Sonnen actually really doesnt look bad at all in the last 2 pictures. And even in the first one a slight cut can cause that much blood and more.
> Chael Sonnen is a white man who bruises easy and not only does he bruise easy but it ends up looking worse then it is. As evidence by all of his fights. Anderson Silva is a black man who doesnt bruise as easy and if he does finally manage to bruise his skin color would make it alot harder to tell.
> 
> I bruise easily and have gotten plenty off black eyes or bruises on my face from punches that didnt hurt and if i didnt have a mirror i wouldnt even know a bruise was there. Its just one of those things white people have to deal with. No big deal..
> ...


true that, I'm a white guy and I've been hit in the face with a brick and sucker punched and beaten by two guys and there wasn't a mark on my face (under my eye was slightly yellow but you really had to look). Some people just don't bruise or scar easily


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

rabakill said:


> true that, I'm a white guy and I've been hit in the face with a brick and sucker punched and beaten by two guys and there wasn't a mark on my face (under my eye was slightly yellow but you really had to look). Some people just don't bruise or scar easily


Yup exactly. Its all genetics. I bruise like a peach but plenty of my friends dont. Chael Sonnen looks bruised up in each of his fights. You guys see his face Post nate/chael fight in the conference??? And thats another fight that Chael dominated.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

The way I see it, Chael fought a near perfect fight, he was beating up Anderson for 4-1/2 rounds and still lost. He's gonna have a tough time doing that again to the best fighter in the world. All the burden is on Chael, because i'm expecting Anderson to be out for blood.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> This is insane. His style would falter because both of them are far superior wrestlers. How many times has Jones been taken down? How many times has GSP been taken down? Both have tremendous takedown defense and takedowns. Where as Chael's tdd is not that great. Everyone who has tried to take him down has done so and you say that he will beat two of the best takedown artists in mma?
> 
> And Chael will not be the p4p best if he beats Silva. He will have been a bad style match up. He would have a long way to go to match what the other champions have accomplished.


GSP is at a disadvantage, Sonnen is bigger and I do believe he is a better wrestler. As for Jon Jones has anyone ever tried to take him down? Why do I believe Sonnen would beat those two. Simple the man is tough, crazy,aggressive and would relentless in whatever game plan he has. If Chael Sonnen wants to take you down he will, and he will keep trying until the fights end. 

I don't think GSP can finish Sonnen, and I don't think he can break him mentally. Never mind who takes who down, I'm sure Sonnen can take GSP down. But it would be a 25 min war with Chael being the aggressor. GSP will be tested mentally something which he has not been tested yet. 

As for Jones, Sonnen this one is interesting, Evans did not takedown Jones, and everybody plays that reach game with Jones by not closing the distant. I think brings that aggressive element to this fight.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Chael vs. GSP isn't fair at all. Neither is Chael vs. Jones. Both are fights where one guy has a weight advantage and it's why there are weight classes. GSP would be defenseless against Chael, all the skill in the world can't stop someone who's close in wrestling ability and way bigger and stonger, same goes for Jones vs. Sonnen. It would be different if any of them had one punch KO power but none of the 3 do.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

rabakill said:


> true that, I'm a white guy and I've been hit in the face with a brick and sucker punched and beaten by two guys and there wasn't a mark on my face (under my eye was slightly yellow but you really had to look). Some people just don't bruise or scar easily


yeah some people just done show damage like others do. but as the saying goes its whats inside that counts right?


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

rabakill said:


> I think I gave most of the people here too much credit. This is just pure nuthugging for either side with very little objective conversation. It's like saying one thing as neutrally as possible is taken as hatred for one side's golden boy, ffs this forum needs to get it's shit together. This is the place where we aren't allowed to like both fighters, because if you do that means a slight propensity to cheer for someone is taken as hatred towards somebody else


No, its called having some fun. You would rather we all came on here spouting the same thing in mono-tone? Yes... Sonnen grinded out Silva for 4.5 rounds. We all know that. Is he likely to pull it off again? For large portions of the fight, yes. Thats pretty much the jist of it, if you want to be "objective".

However, this forum would be a total snooze fest if that's how it went down all the time.

Sonnen is full of banter. Everything he says is to shock, amuse and sell. How can you tell anybody to come into a Sonnen thread and be serious? :confused03:

Thats enough seriousness from me for a week. Back to a delusional and ultimately more entertaining space for me.

In a nutshell... lighten up Francis.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I need coffee


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

marcthegame said:


> GSP is at a disadvantage, Sonnen is bigger and I do believe he is a better wrestler. As for Jon Jones has anyone ever tried to take him down? Why do I believe Sonnen would beat those two. Simple the man is tough, crazy,aggressive and would relentless in whatever game plan he has. If Chael Sonnen wants to take you down he will, and he will keep trying until the fights end.
> 
> I don't think GSP can finish Sonnen, and I don't think he can break him mentally. Never mind who takes who down, I'm sure Sonnen can take GSP down. But it would be a 25 min war with Chael being the aggressor. GSP will be tested mentally something which he has not been tested yet.
> 
> As for Jones, Sonnen this one is interesting, Evans did not takedown Jones, and everybody plays that reach game with Jones by not closing the distant. I think brings that aggressive element to this fight.


You might believe that Chael is the better wrestler but all evidence points to the contrary. GSP is someone who - from the admission of both Greg Jackson and Rashad Evans - regularly out wrestled Rashad. I don't think Chael has enough of an edge in size to make up for the difference in skill. It would be GSP/Koscheck 1 again.

And GSP is training with Roger Gracie for his bjj. Literally the best bjj guy in the world. And how does Chael generally lose again?

And all of the wrestlers Jones has faced have attempted to take him down. None have succeeded. He stuffed Bader casually. Chael would eat an elbow trying to come in and get ragdolled to the ground.

Appreciating Chael's skills is one thing. Buying into his own hype that he is fearless and the best wrestler in the game is insanity. He is neither and it has been shown multiple times.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

deadmanshand said:


> You might believe that Chael is the better wrestler but all evidence points to the contrary. GSP is someone who - from the admission of both Greg Jackson and Rashad Evans - regularly out wrestled Rashad. I don't think Chael has enough of an edge in size to make up for the difference in skill. It would be GSP/Koscheck 1 again.
> 
> And GSP is training with Roger Gracie for his bjj. Literally the best bjj guy in the world. And how does Chael generally lose again?
> 
> ...


Lets not read that much into GSP out-wrestling Rashad in practice. PRACTICE. Where do we hear that? On the hype shows? Of course they will say that to hype him up. I'm sure he holds his own and gets the better of Rashad on occasion. 

I think it would be a good fight. But I also think Chael would win. GSP never fights guys who plow ahead and take it to him. Few if any 170s can take him down. So most stay on the outside. How would GSP react if Sonnen is going forward pushing him up against the cage and punching him? 

Kos is a small 170lbs. Chael fought at 205. There is no comparision. Just because GSP kept Kos off him (didn't Kos take him down once or twice?) doesn't mean he will keep Sonnen off him. Sonnen wouldn't just sit in concrete and let GSP jab him in the same eye over and over either.

I think Sonnen would win that fight and I am no Sonnen fan.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Sonnen actually really doesnt look bad at all in the last 2 pictures. And even in the first one a slight cut can cause that much blood and more.
> Chael Sonnen is a white man who bruises easy and not only does he bruise easy but it ends up looking worse then it is. As evidence by all of his fights. Anderson Silva is a black man who doesnt bruise as easy and if he does finally manage to bruise his skin color would make it alot harder to tell.
> 
> I bruise easily and have gotten plenty off black eyes or bruises on my face from punches that didnt hurt and if i didnt have a mirror i wouldnt even know a bruise was there. Its just one of those things some white people have to deal with. No big deal..
> ...


No, you're right, Sonnen didn't look that bad in the 2 last pictures (I guess his cut was already stitched). He just looks quite roughed up and you can tell that he was in a fight. I didn't even say that he got his ass whooped, I just said that if you show the pics to a random person on the street which one of the two fighters that person would rather think to have gotten his ass whooped. 

There was no ass whooping in that fight, from neither of the fighters. Sonnen dominated 23 minutes with his wrestling and Silva submitted him with a triangle. That's it. 

On darker skin you may not see bruises as good as on lighter skin, but it's not like you wouldn't see them at all. 
THAT'S how someone with dark skin looks like after really being beaten up:
















I don't know, maybe we just have different definitions of "ass whooped/kicking the crap out of someone". For me, it's something Jones did to Rua or Silva to Emelianenko and that's something completely different to what happened in the Silva vs Sonnen fight.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Yup exactly. Its all genetics. I bruise like a peach but plenty of my friends dont. Chael Sonnen looks bruised up in each of his fights. You guys see his face Post nate/chael fight in the conference??? And thats another fight that Chael dominated.


It isn't all about cuts and bruises either.

It is about hurting the other guy with your strikes.

Either Silva is the toughest SOB on the planet. Or Chael throws pillows for hands. Any man that lays on his back for 4.5 rounds getting hit with what? 450 "punches"....shouldn't at least 1 or 2 of those really hurt a guy to where he breaks? Right??

Didn't happen. Because Silva is tougher than Chael. Even though Chael always wants to talk about who is tough and who has the will to win more. Silva obviously holds both over Sonnen. Evidence was in the last fight.

So all Chael really has is wrestling over Silva.

Silva is a better striker, better BJJ, better cardio, tougher, has more will to win, is more clutch, has a better offensive clinch, better kicks and knees, more 5 round experience, better dance moves, better grasp of the Portuguese language...

Chael has the wrasslin advantage...


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Lets not read that much into GSP out-wrestling Rashad in practice. PRACTICE. Where do we hear that? On the hype shows? Of course they will say that to hype him up. I'm sure he holds his own and gets the better of Rashad on occasion.


They've said it interviews when they weren't hyping GSP's fights. Other fighters from Jackson's have said the same. When there are multiple sources all saying the same thing it's kind of hard to not believe them without real evidence to the contrary. 



jonnyg4508 said:


> I think it would be a good fight. But I also think Chael would win. GSP never fights guys who plow ahead and take it to him. Few if any 170s can take him down. So most stay on the outside. How would GSP react if Sonnen is going forward pushing him up against the cage and punching him?
> 
> Kos is a small 170lbs. Chael fought at 205. There is no comparision. Just because GSP kept Kos off him (didn't Kos take him down once or twice?) doesn't mean he will keep Sonnen off him. Sonnen wouldn't just sit in concrete and let GSP jab him in the same eye over and over either.


First off Koscheck is not a small welterweight. He was a small middleweight. He is a large welterweight. I have no idea where you pulled that idea from. And two I said it would look like GSP/Koscheck 1 which was not GSP jabbing his way to a decision. It was him straight outwrestling Koscheck for 3 rounds. Koscheck who - unlike Chael - was actually a NCAA Division 1 champion and 4 time All-American.



jonnyg4508 said:


> I think Sonnen would win that fight and I am no Sonnen fan.


*shrug* Don't know what to tell you then.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Soojooko said:


> No, its called having some fun. You would rather we all came on here spouting the same thing in mono-tone? Yes... Sonnen grinded out Silva for 4.5 rounds. We all know that. Is he likely to pull it off again? For large portions of the fight, yes. Thats pretty much the jist of it, if you want to be "objective".
> 
> However, this forum would be a total snooze fest if that's how it went down all the time.
> 
> ...


There's a huge difference between having fun and being delusional. I'm as easy going as it gets, but also logical so I can't help but cringe when someone says something so incredibly untrue. Go ahead pick a side, but stop vilifying others who don't take it is all I'm getting at because then it goes from actual conversation about a fight to childish squabbling. If all you're going to do is argue sometimes it's better to not post so that new people and lurkers aren't scared away.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

deadmanshand said:


> They've said it interviews when they weren't hyping GSP's fights. Other fighters from Jackson's have said the same. When there are multiple sources all saying the same thing it's kind of hard to not believe them without real evidence to the contrary.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you have the Kos thing wrong. He was a lot smaller than GSP. He is in no way a big WW. Maybe not small...but not any more than Average. He is the smaller fighter in about every WW fight he is in. 

You speak on what Kos has accomplished. But then you want to act like GSP being a better wrestler than Rashad is great. Well tell me what Rashad won in college if you want to just talk about their wrestling achievements from 15 years ago? 

Sonnen was a Olympic alternate. What was Rashad?:confused03:


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

rabakill said:


> There's a huge difference between having fun and being delusional. I'm as easy going as it gets, but also logical so I can't help but cringe when someone says something so incredibly untrue. Go ahead pick a side, but stop vilifying others who don't take it is all I'm getting at because then it goes from actual conversation about a fight to childish squabbling. If all you're going to do is argue sometimes it's better to not post so that new people and lurkers aren't scared away.


Vilifying? Squabbling? :confused02:
What are you going on about? Or are you aiming that at the thread in general?

Need I remind you that it was you that said:



> And Anderson did get his ass whooped, anyone denying that is an idiot


I seriously don't consider that true, therefore you are calling me an idiot. Sounds like vilifying to me... with a dash of squabble.

Come on bro. Lighten up. I'm having some fun. Do you seriously want all threads to be proper and productive? Really??


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> Need I remind you that it was you that said:
> 
> 
> Vilifying? Squabbling? :confused02:
> ...


Talk about a hypocrite. He likes logic but is fine with being hypocritical by calling people idiots for disagreeing with his stance.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

....and then I said...



oldfan said:


>


I crack me up


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Talk about a hypocrite. He likes logic but is fine with being hypocritical by calling people idiots for disagreeing with his stance.


the difference is there are black and whites and there are grey areas. Getting dominated for 4.5 rounds and getting hit more times than anyone ever has in a fight is an ass-whooping, how is that a stance? 

Professional mma fighters know it, the analysts know it. During the fight they were talking about how dominant Chael was and how it was his fight to lose. Where is the hypocrisy there? He passed his guard 6 times and hit Anderson 500% more than he got hit back setting the UFC record, I mean I guess you can deny Anderson got his ass-whooped, dominated or whatever you want to call it but the statistics and professionals back it up as pretty much undeniable.

There's a huge difference between that and grey area things such as:

-Chael only did so good because he was juiced
-Chael only did so good because Anderson was injured
-Shogun beat Hendo, that fight was a draw, Hendo beat Shogun
-Silva is the p4p best in the world

etc. etc.

I just don't get why people want to deny what happened in the fight so badly, the most ludicrous being that Anderson purposefully let Sonnen beat him until the last round so he could sub him. I'm sure Anderson would laugh in someone's face if they said that. There just seems to be this Anderson cult following that defends him blindly, obviously the same goes for Sonnen.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

marcthegame said:


> As for Jones, Sonnen this one is interesting, Evans did not takedown Jones, and everybody plays that reach game with Jones by not closing the distant. I think brings that aggressive element to this fight.


For the life of me I can't understand how anyone could think that fight would be competitive. Jones wouldn't just ragdoll Chael, he would realdoll Chael. A fight with Jones would do more damage to Chael's vagina than the TRT did.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

rabakill said:


> the difference is there are black and whites and there are grey areas. Getting dominated for 4.5 rounds and getting hit more times than anyone ever has in a fight is an ass-whooping, how is that a stance?
> 
> Professional mma fighters know it, the analysts know it. During the fight they were talking about how dominant Chael was and how it was his fight to lose. Where is the hypocrisy there? He passed his guard 6 times and hit Anderson 500% more than he got hit back setting the UFC record, I mean I guess you can deny Anderson got his ass-whooped, dominated or whatever you want to call it but the statistics and professionals back it up as pretty much undeniable.
> 
> ...


Clearly, its down to what we consider an ass whooping. You might think its ridiculous that some of us consider actually winning a fight and putting more pain on the other guy pretty important, if you want something considered "ass whooping".

Chael Sonnen was in pain after the fight. No less so the Silva. He also got submitted. How can anything labelled an "ass whooping" involve you having to submit to your opponent? ... "I was whopping his ass till he made me give up"... how does that sentence make anybody look good?

My opinion is completely valid. Im not blind. Im not a god damn idiot. Whooping ass requires you to walk away the victor with your opponent no longer able to fight. That's my opinion. If you don't like it, that's cool. But dont get up there on your soapbox and declare my point of view nuthuggery.


Right. Thats about as serious as I'm willing to get on the topic. From here up to the the fight, I'm only interested in pure silliness. If anybody doesn't like it... put me on ignore please.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

you are talking end results for some reason as if what occurs during a fight is irrelevant. Tell me, who got their ass whooped when Lesnar fought Carwin? I guess Hammill is the shit because he has the sole win over JBJ


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

rabakill said:


> you are talking results for some reason. Tell me, who got their ass whooped when Lesnar fought Carwin?


Lesnar took 28 times more pain then Carwin in that fight. He won because Carwin is an idiot. Silva won because of heart and skill. Are you denying that? Are you reading my posts or just skimming?

EDIT
Your Hamill example is pure grimy barrel bottom scraping... I like it! :laugh:


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Of course nobody denies what Andy did, that was a thing of legend. The latest stoppage in a fight that ever happened in the UFC

I'd contest that Sonnen only lost because he's an idiot, putting his arm on Silva's leg in guard and giving him distance, that's day 1 bjj stuff. This is actually an interesting discussion though, I didn't give you enough credit. I really think Sonnen had a homophobic thing against BJJ for a while then finally realized how stupid it was to completely neglect that part of his game.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

rabakill said:


> Of course nobody denies what Andy did, that was a thing of legend. The latest stoppage in a fight that ever happened in the UFC
> 
> I'd contest that Sonnen only lost because he's an idiot, putting his arm on Silva's leg in guard and giving him distance, that's day 1 bjj stuff. This is actually an interesting discussion though, I didn't give you enough credit. I really think Sonnen had a homophobic thing against BJJ for a while then finally realized how stupid it was to completely neglect that part of his game.


Sonnen was exhausted. He let his concentration slip for a split second and Silva was in there. I felt bad for him after the fight. It was an amazing encounter. We certainly have some common ground brother.:thumbsup:


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Soojooko said:


> Sonnen was exhausted. He let his concentration slip for a split second and Silva was in there. I felt bad for him after the fight. It was an amazing encounter. We certainly have some common ground brother.:thumbsup:


I actually think he had plenty of time to escape, Silva was pretty gassed too, it wasn't a lightning quick submission he applied. I think Sonnen was tired, as you say, but also a bit over-confident at that point. And he really screwed the pooch.

If I were a mean-spirited person, I'd be tempted to say that he choked.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Soojooko said:


> Clearly, its down to what we consider an ass whooping. You might think its ridiculous that some of us consider actually winning a fight and putting more pain on the other guy pretty important, if you want something considered "ass whooping".
> 
> Chael Sonnen was in pain after the fight. No less so the Silva. He also got submitted. How can anything labelled an "ass whooping" involve you having to submit to your opponent? ... "I was whopping his ass till he made me give up"... how does that sentence make anybody look good?
> 
> ...


I would like to offer an alternative definition - The more figurative sports-related ass-whooping. The ass-whooping Spain put on Italy tonight, for example. Does anyone doubt that if not for Chael's brain-fart (And Silva's poise in the face of adversity, I don't want to take anything away from the man) that fight was going to a 50-45 UD? That's an ass-whooping of sorts. Again, the figurative kind.


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

It's not much of an argument who won the first fight, I don't know why you guys make it so complicated for yourselves.

Silva won the fight against Chael, he made him give up. It was the latest stoppage in UFC history. 

Who got his ass whooped? No one did. Anderson Silva won the fight because Chael choked in the last round. Chael was kicking his ass for 4 and a half rounds, but he lost the fight and would've had his arm broken and got choked unconscious if he didn't give up. Imagine if Chael refused to tap and went to sleep, no one would question who got their ass whooped then. He might have been beating the shit out of Anderson, but if he didn't tap he would've been laying on the ground twitching and he'd have nothing to say to that. Fortunately he did tap, and it wasn't as humiliating of a loss for him as it should've been, if he was a real man he wouldn't have tapped in that final round and there would be no doubts in anyone's mind who won that fight and who got their ass kicked.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

ptw said:


> It's not much of an argument who won the first fight, I don't know why you guys make it so complicated for yourselves.
> 
> Silva won the fight against Chael, he made him give up. It was the latest stoppage in UFC history.
> 
> Who got his ass whooped? No one did. Anderson Silva won the fight because Chael choked in the last round. Chael was kicking his ass for 4 and a half rounds, but he lost the fight and would've had his arm broken and got choked unconscious if he didn't give up. Imagine if Chael refused to tap and went to sleep, no one would question who got their ass whooped then. He might have been beating the shit out of Anderson, but if he didn't tap he would've been laying on the ground twitching and he'd have nothing to say to that. Fortunately he did tap, and it wasn't as humiliating of a loss for him as it should've been, if he was a real man he wouldn't have tapped in that final round and there would be no doubts in anyone's mind who won that fight and who got their ass kicked.


Lol i dont know why this post made me laugh so much. Just kinda funny how "If he didnt tap he would be humiliated" to "If he was a real man he wouldnt have tapped"
haha


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I would bet the same people saying Chael didn't "beat Anderson's ass" are the same people who, if the situaiton were reversed and it was Anderson dominating for 4 and a half rounds and then got finished 2 mins left in the fight, even if he didn't do a lot of damage, would be saying "Anderson beat him down, he dominated him, Sonnen should consider himself lucky and he is simply a temporary belt holder until they fight again".

Also, I bet if it was Anderson who was that far ahead in the strike landed ratio and made a record of strikes like that, these people would be praising him for another huge accomplishment "Anderson hit him more times than anyone else has hit someone like that, Sonnen was dominated and got beat down, anyone who says otherwise is stupid, just look at the freaking strikes landed ratio in the fight, Anderson is straight out amazing!".

Not that I'm a huge supporter of Sonnen or Anderson, I honestly don't care who wins and just want to see an exciting fight and the hype for the fight is solid and can't wait to see it, but I always find it strange when people are so strong about an opinion that they would flip in a second if it was in reverse.


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## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

Its kinda a mute point how much Chael was beating his ass because.....he didnt win.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

moo


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## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

The UFC is really in a no lose situation here. Nobody will complain if Sonnen lays on Anderson for 5 rounds simply because its the best fighter ever being beaten. On the other side, Anderson will either finish Sonnen or win convincingly by keeping the fight on the feet and picking him apart. I think Dana knows this too.


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## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

Lol, did couture forget how MMA works?

Sent from my HTC-X710a using VerticalSports.Com App


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Lol i dont know why this post made me laugh so much. Just kinda funny how "If he didnt tap he would be humiliated" to "If he was a real man he wouldnt have tapped"
> haha


LMAO

When I read it to myself I was like  for a bit too, but I hope you understood the point I was trying to make.

In Chael's case, tapping in the 5th round to a guy who he was going to beat was absolutely humiliating then. Now on the other hand, people look at it like it's Chael's biggest accomplishment, to take the champ to the 5th round and lose via triangle choke, going as far as to say that Silva got his ass kicked. Which is why I pointed out that had Chael not tapped, while he claims he was the better man and won the fight, he would have had his arm broken and been choked unconscious. I think if he had gone to that distance to show he really got robbed out of his victory, there would be no doubt about it in my mind his head was in the right place, but he tapped, he gave up, and he chose not to take the high road. Even being choked unconscious would have been more respectful than to tap away your 4 and a half rounds of ass whooping.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

M.C said:


> I would bet the same people saying Chael didn't "beat Anderson's ass" are the same people who, if the situaiton were reversed and it was Anderson dominating for 4 and a half rounds and then got finished 2 mins left in the fight, even if he didn't do a lot of damage, would be saying "Anderson beat him down, he dominated him, Sonnen should consider himself lucky and he is simply a temporary belt holder until they fight again".
> 
> Also, I bet if it was Anderson who was that far ahead in the strike landed ratio and made a record of strikes like that, these people would be praising him for another huge accomplishment "Anderson hit him more times than anyone else has hit someone like that, Sonnen was dominated and got beat down, anyone who says otherwise is stupid, just look at the freaking strikes landed ratio in the fight, Anderson is straight out amazing!".
> 
> Not that I'm a huge supporter of Sonnen or Anderson, I honestly don't care who wins and just want to see an exciting fight and the hype for the fight is solid and can't wait to see it, but I always find it strange when people are so strong about an opinion that they would flip in a second if it was in reverse.


As much as I enjoy wild speculation... in this case... no.

If Silva hit Sonnen 300+ times and came away the loser in the last few minutes, I would be HUGELY disappointed in him and HUGELY impressed with Chael Sonnen. 

... and lets be serious... we both know that Silva hitting anyone 300+ times is going to leave a god damn broken bloody mess.

That's the facts of it as far as I'm concerned. If your daggers are aimed at somebody else... please... carry on!


EDIT. Didnt see this post:



Sports_Nerd said:


> I would like to offer an alternative definition - The more figurative sports-related ass-whooping. The ass-whooping Spain put on Italy tonight, for example. Does anyone doubt that if not for Chael's brain-fart (And Silva's poise in the face of adversity, I don't want to take anything away from the man) that fight was going to a 50-45 UD? That's an ass-whooping of sorts. Again, the figurative kind.


Its a good point, but what happened is closer to winning a football match 4-0 until the last 5 minutes and then conceding 5 goals. That would be the same as what happened to Sonnen. In that scenario, no, the team that scored 4 did not whoop ass. They choked and blew it = almost but no cigar. You cant *almost* whoop an ass. You either did or you didn't. What Spain did was a proper ass-whooping. They beat them from beginning to end and walked away the winners. The Italians we're well and truly defeated. That right there is ass whooping status.

Reminds me of that amusing line from boxing... "I was winning till he knocked me out" :laugh:


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

ptw said:


> LMAO
> 
> When I read it to myself I was like  for a bit too, but I hope you understood the point I was trying to make.
> 
> In Chael's case, tapping in the 5th round to a guy who he was going to beat was absolutely humiliating then. Now on the other hand, people look at it like it's Chael's biggest accomplishment, to take the champ to the 5th round and lose via triangle choke, going as far as to say that Silva got his ass kicked. Which is why I pointed out that had Chael not tapped, while he claims he was the better man and won the fight, he would have had his arm broken and been choked unconscious. I think if he had gone to that distance to show he really got robbed out of his victory, there would be no doubt about it in my mind his head was in the right place, but he tapped, he gave up, and he chose not to take the high road. Even being choked unconscious would have been more respectful than to tap away your 4 and a half rounds of ass whooping.


Yeah i got what you were trying to say.

We all watched the fight and saw what happened. Chael was dominating but until the 5th round ends his domination does not equal a win. Anderson saw a chance to finally get the triangle in the last round and he took it and sealed the deal causing Chael Sonnen to tap and lose the fight and make his 4.5 rounds of domination basically worthless. And this is coming from a Chael fan.

Well i wouldnt say worthless since it did get him another chance to fight Anderson. If Chael got beat in the first round chances are he wouldnt have a rematch right now.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

rabakill said:


> Of course nobody denies what Andy did, that was a thing of legend. The latest stoppage in a fight that ever happened in the UFC
> 
> I'd contest that Sonnen only lost because he's an idiot, putting his arm on Silva's leg in guard and giving him distance, that's day 1 bjj stuff. This is actually an interesting discussion though, I didn't give you enough credit. *I really think Sonnen had a homophobic thing against BJJ for a while* then finally realized how stupid it was to completely neglect that part of his game.


You mean, a guy coming from a background where it's all about putting a half naked man on his back and cuddling him down has homophobic issues with a style where they wear thick clothes in training and where it's all about breaking your opponents limbs or imitating a kill via choke¿ I don't think so. He may have neglected BJJ, because he felt comfortable with his wrestling in his MMA career and thought that was enough, but his homophobic remarks were probably really only his hyping persona.



M.C said:


> I would bet the same people saying Chael didn't "beat Anderson's ass" are the same people who, if the situaiton were reversed and it was Anderson dominating for 4 and a half rounds and then got finished 2 mins left in the fight, even if he didn't do a lot of damage, would be saying "Anderson beat him down, he dominated him, Sonnen should consider himself lucky and he is simply a temporary belt holder until they fight again".
> 
> Also, I bet if it was Anderson who was that far ahead in the strike landed ratio and made a record of strikes like that, these people would be praising him for another huge accomplishment "Anderson hit him more times than anyone else has hit someone like that, Sonnen was dominated and got beat down, anyone who says otherwise is stupid, just look at the freaking strikes landed ratio in the fight, Anderson is straight out amazing!".
> 
> Not that I'm a huge supporter of Sonnen or Anderson, I honestly don't care who wins and just want to see an exciting fight and the hype for the fight is solid and can't wait to see it, but I always find it strange when people are so strong about an opinion that they would flip in a second if it was in reverse.


You lose your bet. 

If Silva dominated the fight for the most time, but didn't do any damage to Sonnen, I'd say just that - just the same with what I've said about the actual fight. No need for exaggeration and calling it an "ass kicking". For me it's "no significant damage inflicted = no ass kicking".


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

I don't like the biast nature of the people who discredit Anderson's win with the triangle. People say "Chael beat him up for 4 and a half rounds" and "Getting a lucky submission means nothing". I remember Sonnen said "it's a joke how I beat his ass for four and a half minutes and still lost the fight". So...is laying on top of something really any better? Chael landed some decent shots, and he edged the stand up exchanges at the start, but then he took it down, kept throwing punches not to finish the fight, but to stop the referee from standing them up. I accept MMA in it's whole form, but if someone is going to discredit Jiu Jitsu like that, you have to recognize the lackluster wrestling style which is hoping the fight sees the scorecards.

€50 on Silva to finish in Round 5 at 9/1


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## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

So many completely missed the point..


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## Inferno (Jan 19, 2010)

Hooligan222 said:


> Damn, Machida kicks hard!


That's f'n funny, I don't care who u are...lol


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

Silva won the fight, and Silva did get his ass kicked. Both are true and denying either seems crazy to me.


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

edlavis88 said:


> Another BJJ non believer apparently. Chael tapped so Silva did REALLY win. Yeah I get the point he is making, that Chael won psychologicaly but he has expressed it so poorly!


This is how much of a BJJ non believer Randy Couture is.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8amsh_randy-couture-vs-ronaldo-jacare-sou_sport


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

locnott said:


> So many completely missed the point..


That's what I was thinking. Couture basically explained why Silva is at an advantage this fight, and Chael has the task of predicting Silva's fight strategy. Normally it behoves the loser of the fight to change his game plan, but this fight is unique in that regard, in that Silva is the winner, but also needs to be the one making changes, as he doesn't want to get muscled around for 41/2 rounds again. 

It was very good smart insight. Reading these hostile posts I find my self continually saying "duh."


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## Sauce1 (Aug 5, 2009)

I had a chance to read some of the comments and no one has asked if this is Randy's way of hyping up the fight. We all know who won and to be honest, I believe Silva was planning all along to give Sonnen the false belief that he was safe and going to win. Why would he wear his BJJ outfit and express deep displeasure with the comment that Sonnen made about his mentor? I find that these discussions can be too polarizing and sometimes neglect the facts. Go review Silva's record and history.. Then compare it with Sonnens. The facts speak for themselves. Anyways, enjoy the fight guys and be safe


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Sauce1 said:


> I had a chance to read some of the comments and no one has asked if this is Randy's way of hyping up the fight. We all know who won and to be honest, *I believe Silva was planning all along to give Sonnen the false belief that he was safe and going to win.* Why would he wear his BJJ outfit and express deep displeasure with the comment that Sonnen made about his mentor? I find that these discussions can be too polarizing and sometimes neglect the facts. Go review Silva's record and history.. Then compare it with Sonnens. The facts speak for themselves. Anyways, enjoy the fight guys and be safe


Lmfao

You gotta love it...


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

If Anderson really didn't win then why was his hand raised at the end? Sonnen my have controlled 4.5 rounds but in the end Anderson still made him tap. That is a victory no matter how people want to spin it.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Bonnar426 said:


> If Anderson really didn't win then why was his hand raised at the end? Sonnen my have controlled 4.5 rounds but in the end Anderson still made him tap. That is a victory no matter how people want to spin it.


There is not a single person that wants to "spin" it and claim that Chael Sonnen won the fight. Except for maybe Chael himself.


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## Sauce1 (Aug 5, 2009)

Bonnar426 said:


> If Anderson really didn't win then why was his hand raised at the end? Sonnen my have controlled 4.5 rounds but in the end Anderson still made him tap. That is a victory no matter how people want to spin it.


 Yup. That fight was huge because it displayed all the makings of a true champion. Being right on the brink of defeat and then coming back with such amazing technique. I do not want to downplay what Sonnen did that night but all the shit talking and disrespect is getting old. Also, I am for athletes that do not cheat and are about skills, technique and humility. Something that Silva has.


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## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

I suspect that neither party is going to change their respective game plans, so IMO Couture is wrong.

I'm assuming AS's Plan A was to strike for a KO; in the event he got dumped on his head and dry-humped, his Plan B was likely to look for a sub. 
I doubt that's going to change, except possibly more sweeps/scrambling.

Chael's Plan A was probably to use strikes to set up takedowns, then keep AS on his back with enough activity to grind out a decision. 
His Plan B likely read as follows...

"See Plan A".

What can realistically _be_ different in terms of game-planning/adapting for either fighter, considering their limitations/styles/skillsets?

.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I think Randy's points are very valid but think some people need to quit being so critical of the lack of proper language since you know Randy did make a career of being punched in the face.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

I mean it makes sense. Randy is saying that Anderson was the one that needed to go back to the drawing board and figure out a new strategy for Chael. Where as Chael is going to do the exact same thing. I would agree with that, but that doesn't mean Anderson didn't win.


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