# ***OFFICIAL*** Wanderlei Silva vs. Rich Franklin II Pre/Post Fight Discussion Thread



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

*Catchweight bout: 190 pounds*
*Main event - Five round fight*


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Could tell from their weigh in's they are ready to bring on the bombs:


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

I think Wandy wins this, tempted to say (T)KO but a decision is the safer bet.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Don't know who wins but I don't think a five round fight favors Wand, then again a 16 month lay off doesn't really bode well for Franklin either.

Just hope for a good fight, both guys are fun as hell to watch, can't wait for it.


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## GriffinFanKY (Oct 22, 2007)

After Guida vs. Maynard I am extremely excited about this fight as a main event because this will be the complete opposite This is gonna be good now if I actually knew anything about the other fights on the card besides Russow vs. Werdum I could get motivated to watch it.


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## Old school fan (Aug 24, 2011)

I would root for Franklin if he was fighting anyone else beside Wanderlei. My heart is really divided here


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I hope its a good fight, I like both guys but I'll be cheering for wandy. :thumbsup:


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Gotta go with my boy Rich. I like wandy, but Rich beat him pretty decisively last time around. I think 5 rounds favors Rich. Conditioning has never been an issue for him.


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## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

I want to believe that Wanderlei will win, it would be heartbreaking if I see him get KO'd in front of his friends, family, and fellow Brazilians.


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## browncow (Jun 14, 2008)

Old school fan said:


> I would root for Franklin if he was fighting anyone else beside Wanderlei. My heart is really divided here


Looks like we're in the same boat.

I was damn-near having panic attacks before UFC 99.

Rich won last time, so I'm kinda leaning towards Wand... especially with him fighting on home turf.

Should be one helluva scrap.raise01:


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Franklin all day long. Rich has power and knows how to use it, and as much as I hate to say it, Wandy's chin won't be able to handle it.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Wand has to hurt him and put him out early, theres no way he will be able to keep up with Rich in R3,4,5. I see Rich finishing Wandy late in the fight.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

If Wandy implements the same game plan he did against Bisping he can win it. Franklin won't want to play the clinch game or get into too many close quarter brawls. Man to think of it...old Wandy would come out charging from the get go. We'll see a much more methodical fight I believe ESPECIALLY because it's a five rounder.

The crowd may or may not help Wandy. He's a real emotional fighter. IE: Getting overzealous against Chris Leben. That's something Wand can not due anymore at this stage of his career due to his wear and tear. He's gotta have *controlled bursts.* 

For Wandy's sake I hope he wins then retires. He's got a little more mileage than Chuck, but not much more. His body and chin have seen too many wars.

I'm expecting a FOTN material here!


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I think we're going to see a real show. I heard franklin say in an interview that the key was to stick and move and not let wandy get close enough to brawl.

After last night he might reconsider.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Wanderlei out-struck Cung Le in a technical stand up war.

He's not the same fighter / brawler he was when he fought Franklin the first time. I think Wanderlei improved to where he can out-technique Franklin with his striking.

Franklin was a great fighter back in the day, but it doesn't seem as if he's done anything to improve himself or up his game. He's hasn't necessarily evolved to keep up with everyone else. (Or, maybe I'm wrong on that?)

Wanderlei via stand up domination. :thumbsup:


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Trix said:


> Wanderlei out-struck Cung Le in a technical stand up war.
> 
> He's not the same fighter / brawler he was when he fought Franklin the first time. I think Wanderlei improved to where he can out-technique Franklin with his striking.
> 
> ...


Franklin was just never cut out for LHW. Hes just simply not big enough or strong enough when someone like Forest can lay on him. Franklin is still a great fighter and will prove that hes still in the elite of MWs.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Franklin was just never cut out for LHW. Hes just simply not big enough or strong enough when someone like Forest can lay on him. Franklin is still a great fighter and will prove that hes still in the elite of MWs.


He is a great fighter.

But, afaik, he still trains the way he did 10 years ago, with the same trainers and people.

While everyone else is improving, learning new skills and becoming better fighters, Franklin may still be doing the exact same things he was doing a decade ago.

I won't be surprised if its a technical stand up war and Wanderlei out-techniques Franklin. 

That's pretty much what I'm expecting..


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

Trix said:


> He is a great fighter.
> 
> But, afaik, he still trains the way he did 10 years ago, with the same trainers and people.
> 
> ...


Really? I was thinking that both fighters are pretty much the same as the first fight so I expect it to be the same result. I don't see Wandy as hugely changed from what he used to be. He loses more than in the beast pride days but that is because he is fighting a higher level of competition most of the time.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

My spidey sense is tingling.
Something tells me this is one fight too many for Wandy, and it's going to end badly


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

The clips from the first fight keep getting me amped for this fight.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Woah no brown and pink trunks for Rich. Odd lol


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm rooting for Franklin, been a huge fan of his for the longest time.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

I don't get it, what happened to Ace's 5head? haha.

I'm going with a KO in the second for Rich.

Oh shit Wandy's music!


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

SANDSTORM VS FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK!

shit's goin' down people.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Anytime I hear sandstorm I do the wrist warm up. It's funny when you catch the eye of someone who gets it.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Not quite the reaction I expected, maybe people just love Franklin. lol


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Could be the last time we see one or both of these men fight. I'm nervous for that alone. 

As much as I love Wandy, I want a dominant performance and a stoppage for Rich.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Could be the last time we see one or both of these men fight. I'm nervous for that alone.


God a double retirement would be horrible for my psyche.


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## jaycalgary (Jun 19, 2008)

Going be a good one I think. Neither came to the ring looking sedated like I have seen in other fights and never seems to work out well when 1 does.


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## UFCfan4Life (Jun 23, 2012)

Wanderlei still has the best entrance music.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Hope Rich gets the win and then cracks out an ace Ventura quote in his interview


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Good round, 10-9 Rich.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Rich looking outstanding, although that headkick in the last minute scared the hell out of me.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

Got Rich winning that round.

I'm scared for Wandy's chin.
It seems like Wandy is too.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Wandy is backing up, he isn't liking what he is eating. Good round for Rich, and gets an early reminder to keep those hands up.


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## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Good round, 10-9 Rich.


This.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Wanderlei is so shot it's literally sad to watch.


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

I think Rich took that first round but it was extremely close can see some even taking Wandy in that first. He landed 2 head kicks but I think Rich got it


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Instant **** choke grab by Wandy!


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

Oh shit! That was insane!
I was praying that wasn't stopped right there!
Fight's on!


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

Wow Rich was lucky to get out of that round


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Classic Wandy, I love it.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Rich needs to keep those hands up.

10-8 Wand


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Jesus.... 10-8 wandy???


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## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

Classic Wandy. So glad that wasn't stopped though.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Franklin is tough!!


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Haven't dropped that many F-bombs in a long time. That was scary. Exciting fight


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

has Wandy gassed himself? Has he even thrown a punch this round yet?


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## rallyman (Mar 15, 2010)

AJClark said:


> has Wandy gassed himself? Has he even thrown a punch this round yet?


was just thinking the same thing!

would have thought he would come out smelling blood


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

edlavis88 said:


> Franklin is tough!!


Undoubtedly the toughest man in the UFC, followed by Shogun


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

29-28 Franklin so far


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Good round and so far a hell of a fight, 10-9 Rich, don't know what's up with Wanderlei his foot might be hurt from that kick or he blew himself out going for the kill and took that one off.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Wandy gassed out after going for the KO, I have this 2-1 Franklin.


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

Rich took round 3 for sure,Wanderlei definitely gassed in the 2nd


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## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

Have it 29-28 Rich so far.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Good round and so far a hell of a fight, 10-9 Rich, don't know what's up with Wanderlei his foot might be hurt from that kick or he blew himself out going for the kill and took that one off.


I'm thinking both.


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## jaycalgary (Jun 19, 2008)

Mario Yamasaki is a good ref.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

This is gonna be wandy's gameplan... 7 1/2 minutes of nothing followed by one crazy flurry.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Yawn. I think I'm skipping the end of this.

Hopefully Silva or Sonnen doesnt pull out of the next card.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Undoubtedly the toughest man in the UFC, followed by Shogun


Yeah, too bad he folded like a lawn chair when Belfort and Anderson hit him.


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## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

Wandy is for sure gassed.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

Goddamm...


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Whew, I almost thought we were gonna get out of this fight without a nut shot.


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## rallyman (Mar 15, 2010)

man thats just nasty!


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Rich has a knack for uncomfortable fight injuries. DAMN what a bad nut shot!


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## jaycalgary (Jun 19, 2008)

Did it say Humptys on the back of his shorts? lol


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Worst one in a long time


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

"What a stupid design by Mother Nature" - Joe Rogan


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

3 - 1 Franklin


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## UFCfan4Life (Jun 23, 2012)

I never knew sumo wrestling exercises cured shots to the nuts. Thanks Franklin.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Give that one to Rich 10-9. 

Got him up 3 rounds to 1 but I would have gave Wanderlei the 10-8 for the second, Rich should mix in some more takedowns in order to secure it.


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

3 rounds to Rich 1 to Wandy. Wandy needs to finish it


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## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

jaycalgary said:


> Did it say Humptys on the back of his shorts? lol


Not sure what it says. Mario ripped most of the sponsor sticker off since it was falling off before the fight started.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

3-1 rich. Could be 39-37 or 38-37... Wandy takes the last and it could be 47-47.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Hope the nut shot doesn't effect his performance.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

americanfighter said:


> Hope the nut shot doesn't effect his performance.


I think it zapped all of his power, but his movement is still good


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Whew, hell of a finish. Rich takes it.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Rich won this 4 to 1, what a war, but Wandy clearly gassed.


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

Definitely Rich won this. Solid fight


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Rich almost had him KO'd there at the end


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Awesome we got a whole 30 seconds of actual fighting.

Rich takes this abomination 4-1.

Congrats Rich, you beat a guy who should've retired three fights ago.


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## jaycalgary (Jun 19, 2008)

I think Rich got respect from Brazil.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

This should have worked perfect for me. I had Franklin to complete my £80 multi fight bet. And I had £10 on rich by Decison too... Come on judges don't be Shit.

Roflcopter why do you watch MMA if u hate most of it?


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Rich needs to get that flattened nose fixed.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Right call, great fight.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Awesome we got a whole 30 seconds of actual fighting.
> 
> Rich takes this abomination 4-1.
> 
> Congrats Rich, you beat a guy who should've retired three fights ago.


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Silva looked horrible. Its hard to beileve he's the same guy that stomped Rampage twice.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Roflcopter said:


> Awesome we got a whole 30 seconds of actual fighting.
> 
> Rich takes this abomination 4-1.
> 
> Congrats Rich, you beat a guy who should've retired three fights ago.


Shhhh no more tears now. 

Only sleep.


Unrustle your jimmies brah


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## UFCfan4Life (Jun 23, 2012)

Wanderlei needed to come out firing in the 3rd round. Huge mistake letting Franklin recover.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

edlavis88 said:


> This should have worked perfect for me. I had Franklin to complete my £80 multi fight bet. And I had £10 on rich by Decison too... Come on judges don't be Shit.
> 
> Roflcopter why do you watch MMA if u hate most of it?


I watch more MMA than 99 percent of this board.


I just hate awful fights with shot fighters...and I especially hate seeing regional level fighters on UFC Main Cards...when I'm SUPPOSED to be watching the creme de la creme of the MMA world.

I actually DO watch Jungle Fight, unlike some posters here who don't even know who Walid Ismail is. And this card basically was nothing more than a glorified Jungle Fight card with a headliner of two hasbeens. 


These guys had about 8 minutes of fight in them and the rest of it was standing around throwing arm punches. The
5th round they had a single flurry of 30 seconds of actual fighting after 4 minutes of absolutely nothing and that's supposed to be awesome?

Hopefully they give Serio-Mutante the FOTN...even though that wasn't exactly a fanatastic display of high level MMA either.




vilify said:


> Silva looked horrible. Its hard to beileve he's the same guy that stomped Rampage twice.


Not really hard to believe. He's extremely old, has tons of wear and tear, and is off the steroids and isn't cycling TRT like our beloved American wrestlers from Team Quest.

He shouldn't be fighting anymore and tonight is a perfect example of why.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Rich Franklin is a tough mother ****er.

Also, I've said it a million times, if you hurt a guy at the end of the round and are swarming to a finish and run out of time, blitz his ass at the start of the next round, no one recovers completely in a minute.


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## jaycalgary (Jun 19, 2008)

Joe Rogan is that you?


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

That would've required Wanderlei Silva to be a high level, ME calibre fighter that can actually do things like not be half-dead after a single flurry early in a 25 minute fight.

Someone like Anderson Silva.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Can anyone get a gif of wandy's flurry in the second, and then their hug/handshake at the start of the 5th?


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

M.C said:


> Can anyone get a gif of wandy's flurry in the second, and then their hug/handshake at the start of the 5th?


Only gif I've seen so far.










Nvm. Here ya go, whole swarm from first knee to end of round.










Maybe COULD have been stopped when Rich went face down, but eh.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I haven't seen one of the hug.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)




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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Lmao at rich after the ball kick, looks so funny with those pink shorts.

Thanks for gifs guys, if you find them hugging and shaking hands at the start of the 5th please post that as well.


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## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> I watch more MMA than 99 percent of this board.
> 
> I love psuedo-elitest douche baggery.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

I'm bummed Wanderlei gased. Just when he's beginning to become more technical and fighting more intelligently, his age is catching up with him.

I would love to see how that fight had gone if Wanderlei hadn't gotten tired easily.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Trix said:


> I'm bummed Wanderlei gased. Just when he's beginning to become more technical and fighting more intelligently, his age is catching up with him.
> 
> I would love to see how that fight had gone if Wanderlei hadn't gotten tired easily.


If he had the energy of his younger self, he'd fight like his younger self. The more relaxed pace is not a decision, fighters are forced to do that as they get older.

Though if he had blitzed Rich in round one, he may well have stopped him.

These fights should not be main events, as a TUF finale its ok but it was a numbered event in Brazil...


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Awesome we got a whole 30 seconds of actual fighting.
> 
> Rich takes this abomination 4-1.
> 
> Congrats Rich, you beat a guy who should've retired three fights ago.


Good God. The amount of hate wreaking from you is quite evident. As is the douchebaggery of "I watch more MMA than you" in your next post.

I like how you equate throwing recklessly with little regard for safety as "real fighting". Leonard Garcia should be your favorite fighter.

Also, if Wand would have won this I highly doubt you would have posted something similar. Chances are it would have still been hating Rich.

Did you pay for the card? Or are you bitching because you lost your precious time?


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Anyone have a gif of the end of the fight?


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Well Wandy fought exactly the way he should have, maybe a lil too tentative. But as SM said he doesn't have the chin/conditioning he had in his younger days. It's too bad really. After watching tonight I realized this is one of those times where this statement rings true..."if" this was in the early to mid 2000s Wandy would have swarmed from the get go and NEVER let up til his opponent was unconscious that much I could guarantee. 

After 47 fights spanning 16 years he's still got it in him, good to see glimpses of his barrages.

Wand should pick one last fight of his choice for a W then leave gracefully.

PS: Rich showed why he's still very much in the game. Good win!


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Trix said:


> I'm bummed Wanderlei gased. Just when he's beginning to become more technical and fighting more intelligently, his age is catching up with him.
> 
> I would love to see how that fight had gone if Wanderlei hadn't gotten tired easily.


He probably would have stopped rich. Franklin didn't deal with his pressure very well. The only time Rich showed he could handle it was the very end of the fight. Other than that it looked like Rich had a hard time avoiding damage going backwards.

Also I'm more sure than ever that vitor would blit Wand and make short work of him again. Vitor hits harder, swarms better and is more technical than Rich. Rich was scoring all night with straight punches down the pipe, just never got a chance to capitalize on it.
Sent from my Desire HD using VerticalSports.Com App


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## Abrissbirne (Jul 4, 2010)

This was a great fight! I scored the second round 10-8 for Wandy, but all other rounds for Rich. I really enjoyed this fight tho, both did great!


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Good God. The amount of hate wreaking from you is quite evident. As is the douchebaggery of "I watch more MMA than you" in your next post.
> 
> I like how you equate throwing recklessly with little regard for safety as "real fighting". Leonard Garcia should be your favorite fighter.
> 
> ...


Only in MMA where the level of striking is so poor in general that people don't realize they have a low probability of getting KO'd if they actually throw jabs and and short precise crosses and not load up on every punch and throw wild hooks.

Matt Brown isn't even a good striker really, he's just good for MMA because he knows how to touch guys and not get hit that much. It's sad when you see more high level striking from Matt freaking Brown than "ME" fighters.


Also, I would never pay for this garbage but I can see why people are rushing to defend their investment. The same kind of people that bought this card must be the same kind of people that bought Horse Armor in the Elder Scrolls Oblivion.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Life B Ez said:


> He probably would have stopped rich. Franklin didn't deal with his pressure very well. The only time Rich showed he could handle it was the very end of the fight. Other than that it looked like Rich had a hard time avoiding damage going backwards.
> 
> Also I'm more sure than ever that vitor would blit Wand and make short work of him again. Vitor hits harder, swarms better and is more technical than Rich. Rich was scoring all night with straight punches down the pipe, just never got a chance to capitalize on it.
> Sent from my Desire HD using VerticalSports.Com App


The first round was all Rich, and he tagged him hard multiple times and dropped him. I really thought Rich was gonna knock him out until Wandy caught him


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## jaycalgary (Jun 19, 2008)

Poor troll should take his meds.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Roflcopter said:


> Also, I would never pay for this garbage but I can see why people are rushing to defend their investment. The same kind of people that bought this card must be the same kind of people that bought Horse Armor in the Elder Scrolls Oblivion.


And not a single f**k was given that day.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Rich is my favorite fighter, so I'm happy to see him win but I'm also sad to see Wanderlei lose. One of those fights where you want both fighters to win. Still thought Franklin took it convincingly 49-46.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Abrissbirne said:


> This was a great fight! I scored the second round 10-8 for Wandy, but all other rounds for Rich. I really enjoyed this fight tho, both did great!


10-8's don't go for guys who dominate for a minute. Franklin won the first four minutes of that round 10-8's only go for guys that dominate for five minutes and do massive amount of damage. It was a great minute of violence and the ref could have stopped the fight but all that did was win him the round.

I think this fight actually saved Wanderlei's career, as crazy as it might sound he may survive getting brutally KO'd by Vitor to get one more fight.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Yamasaki lets fights go on far too long. 

1. *BJ Penn knocked out Sean Sherk*, then stopped when he saw Sherk was out. Mario wouldn't stop the fight, so he had to keep beating a defenseless fighter. 

2. *Brock Lesnar delivered about 3 dozen hammer fists in 30 seconds to Couture* before Yamaaski stopped the fight. Obviously, Couture was not "intelligently defending himself" if he's eating that many punches in such a short period of time.

3. *Wanderlei beats Franklin senseless while Franklin cowers in the fetal position for an entire minute.* No stoppage. 

Rich himself after the fight, says he didn't remember ANYTHING from the 2nd to the end of the fourth round. 

The fight should've been stopped for Rich's own safety.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

michelangelo said:


> Yamasaki lets fights go on far too long.
> 
> 1. *BJ Penn knocked out Sean Sherk*, then stopped when he saw Sherk was out. Mario wouldn't stop the fight, so he had to keep beating a defenseless fighter.
> 
> ...


I am a huge rich Franklin fan so I may be a little biased but I got to dissagree. I look at fights like Congo vs pat and carwin vs Brock which are fights that easily could have been stopped but it's a good thing they werent. This fight also could have been stoped but it's a good thing it wasn't.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

michelangelo said:


> Yamasaki lets fights go on far too long.
> 
> 1. *BJ Penn knocked out Sean Sherk*, then stopped when he saw Sherk was out. Mario wouldn't stop the fight, so he had to keep beating a defenseless fighter.
> 
> ...


Watching it again

Rich goes down at :41
Rich shuffles out of the way at :32
Rich rises up and goes for a single at :26
Wanderlei returns the beating at :20
Rich wiggles out of a beating from Wandy at :08
Rich answers the call to move at :03

Wanderlei had two points that the fight could have been called but Franklin was able to intelligently defend himself. Rich did turtle up but he never turned his head away from the punching (which is "tapping" to strikes).


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> I am a huge rich Franklin fan so I may be a little biased but I got to dissagree. I look at fights like Congo vs pat and carwin vs Brock which are fights that easily could have been stopped but it's a good thing they werent. This fight also could have been stoped but it's a good thing it wasn't.


Those are fun fights for the spectator, but threaten the long term health of the fighters. The first thing Rich stated after the fight was that he couldn't remember 3/5 of the fight. He only recalled his corner telling him it was the start of the fifth round. A surprise to Rich, as he could only recall events up to the end of the 1st. 

MMA has a remarkable track record for safe-guarding the welfare of it's fighters, while still providing some of the most dynamic action in all of combat sports. I don't want to see that balance change.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Only in MMA where the level of striking is so poor in general that people don't realize they have a low probability of getting KO'd if they actually throw jabs and and short precise crosses and not load up on every punch and throw wild hooks.
> 
> Matt Brown isn't even a good striker really, he's just good for MMA because he knows how to touch guys and not get hit that much. It's sad when you see more high level striking from Matt freaking Brown than "ME" fighters.


The Brown thing is a stretch he finds success with that against cans and middling fighters Wanderlei has been more effective against better fighters in his career with his striking. Brown would get smoked by the top WWs fighting that way.

We saw what happens to guys like them more often than not at the top levels of a division tonight either way. So you aren't wrong about the level of striking in MMA but that isn't generally how it works at the contendership level these days. 

Rich at the very least is still good enough to be competitive at the top of 185. This fight was somewhat disappointing I was hoping that Wandy would be more active; the majority of the fight was him being a punching bag. Hopefully we will see Rich fight some better guys again soon.


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## evilappendix (Jan 4, 2007)

I thought this was a great fight. I happily shelled out cash to see these two square off again and I rarely purchase cards. Wand was super close to getting the KO in the second but Rich was savvy enough to survive to the bell. Would've liked to see Wand get the win not only because he is and forever will be my favorite fighter but then we'd also be set for a rubber match between these two. :thumb02: Still, great fight, Rich ate leather like a boss then recovered well and stuck to his game plan showing his heart and skill as always. Also, props to Ace for brushing up on some Portuguese for the crowd, perpetual charmer that he is.:hug:


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

osmium said:


> The Brown thing is a stretch he finds success with that against cans and middling fighters Wanderlei has been more effective against better fighters in his career with his striking. Brown would get smoked by the top WWs fighting that way.
> 
> We saw what happens to guys like them more often than not at the top levels of a division tonight either way. So you aren't wrong about the level of striking in MMA but that isn't generally how it works at the contendership level these days.
> 
> Rich at the very least is still good enough to be competitive at the top of 185. This fight was somewhat disappointing I was hoping that Wandy would be more active; the majority of the fight was him being a punching bag. Hopefully we will see Rich fight some better guys again soon.


Which strikers outside of Nick Diaz at the "top level" are so much better at kickboxing than guys like Stephen Thompson?

Being a good MMA fighter =/= being a good striker. A lot of guys that are good or okay at striking like Matt Brown suck at other things and therefore lose to guys like Hendricks and Koscheck who are just really good wrestlers.

And quite frankly Wanderlei has never really beaten a good striker.....who is the best one he's beat in his UFC run? Keith Jardine? A 40 year old movie star Cung Le?

Hell, even in his PRIDE days he beat Rampage before Rampage really knew how to box and was mostly just a wrestler.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Which strikers outside of Nick Diaz at the "top level" are so much better at kickboxing than guys like Stephen Thompson?
> 
> Being a good MMA fighter =/= being a good striker. A lot of guys that are good or okay at striking like Matt Brown suck at other things and therefore lose to guys like Hendricks and Koscheck who are just really good wrestlers.
> 
> ...


I said when he got signed I didn't like the way Thompson throws punches and his boxing defense. I think a lot of guys would hand him his ass standing because of the smaller gloves and how open he is. Also this is MMA your takedown defense is essentially part of your striking ability. When you can get taken down by Matt Brown swatting at your legs it will get in your head while you are standing. 

Hendricks would crush Brown standing he is slow and sloppy and has less power. Wanderlei in his prime was a better striker than Brown just based off of his explosiveness.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

michelangelo said:


> Those are fun fights for the spectator, but threaten the long term health of the fighters. The first thing Rich stated after the fight was that he couldn't remember 3/5 of the fight. He only recalled his corner telling him it was the start of the fifth round. A surprise to Rich, as he could only recall events up to the end of the 1st.
> 
> MMA has a remarkable track record for safe-guarding the welfare of it's fighters, while still providing some of the most dynamic action in all of combat sports. I don't want to see that balance change.


yeah however i am not as much worried about the entertainment to the fans (I couldn't give a sh** less about that when it comes to fighter safety) as much as giving the fighter a chance to comeback and win. Its a balancing act between fighter safety and giving the guy a chance to recover. I must say I don't envy the reff but in this situation I think he made the right call.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

What sucks is that we may not know whether or not these stoppages were too late until 10 or 20 years down the road. My impression at this point however, is that MMMA competition is indeed the most tightly and best regulated of all combat sports, by a very noticeable margin. 

The good news is that guys who have been in serious battles, guys like Couture and Liddell, and Rich himself, seem not only to be doing ok, but are sharp as tacks. With the exception of Liddell perhaps, whose indulgence in drugs of every kind is well documented, and is a major complicating factor.

Having said that, there's really no need to keep pushing the envelope the way that officials like Azzagatti, Yamasaki and Herb Dean all have, to a greater or lesser degree. 

And yeah, a 'W' and the extra G's this affords a fighter are important. But there's nothing more important than long term health. MMA's track record given the circumstances is outstanding. Let's keep it that way.


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## dereklin (Jun 25, 2012)

Budhisten said:


> *Catchweight bout: 190 pounds*
> *Main event - Five round fight*


Damn. My heart is torn between these two fighters but I gotta support my boy Wandy!


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