# Lesnar: "Fedor Is The Greatest Champion In His Own Little World"



## snakerattle79 (Feb 6, 2008)

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=11845&zoneid=13

Top ranked heavyweight Fedor Emelianenko last week said he wasn't a fan of the UFC. On Tuesday, UFC heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar proclaimed that he's no fan of Fedor either.

The reigning UFC heavyweight champ was asked during a media conference call if he planned on watching the upcoming Fedor fight this weekend as he takes on Fabricio Werdum. Lesnar appeared surprised at the question.

"I didn't even know he was fighting," he said.

Joking or not, Lesnar pulled no punches when talking about Fedor's proclamation that he was thinking about retirement from the sport, and walking away as the greatest heavyweight to ever put on the gloves.

"Good for Fedor, I hope he does retire." Lesnar commented. "He's the greatest champion of all time. He's the greatest champion ever, of all time, in his own little world. Good for him."

For a fight that MMA fans may never get to see, Lesnar had no problem stating that he'd have no issues facing Emelianenko, or defeating him if they ever did meet in the cage.

"Absolutely," Lesnar answered when asked if he could beat Fedor. "I can beat anybody."

Lesnar's UFC 116 opponent, current UFC interim heavyweight champion Shane Carwin, was a little more diplomatic with his approach to the Fedor situation, but did say that he was disappointed the Russian has thus far refused to step foot in the Octagon.

"I think it's unfortunate he didn't join the UFC," said Carwin about Fedor. "I'm not concerned with anything Fedor's doing right now. I got Brock ahead of me, and that's all I'm focused on. The UFC is the NFL of mixed martial arts, and the best of the best."

UFC president Dana White has stated on several occasions his desire to land Emelianenko, but negotiations with his management company, M-1 Global, have always fizzled out. As Fedor draws to the close of his current deal with Strikeforce, free agency rumors and a move to the UFC will likely heat up again later this year, but for now it doesn't look like the top dogs in the UFC's heavyweight division are worried about Fedor.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Nothing really new but still good read... Thanks


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

snakerattle79 said:


> http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=11845&zoneid=13
> 
> Top ranked heavyweight Fedor Emelianenko last week said he wasn't a fan of the UFC. On Tuesday, UFC heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar proclaimed that he's no fan of Fedor either.
> 
> ...


^^^^^^^^^^^^^ All truth


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Well, obviously Fedor must be the best since people have to keep going on about how he's not the best.


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## DropKick (Apr 19, 2007)

OK, so someone asks the UFC HW champ if he thinks he could beat Fedor, is he supposed to say no? Nothing to see here, but a good read.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Wow, how many times do these idiots have to hate on Fedor before they shut up. Dude was the best HW and the #1 p4p fighter for 7 years. He doesn't need the UFC. He already has the greatest legacy in the ******* sport. People need to hop off his dick for a second.


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## suffersystem (Feb 4, 2007)

MikeHawk said:


> Wow, how many times do these idiots have to hate on Fedor before they shut up. Dude *was* the best HW and the #1 p4p fighter for 7 years. He doesn't need the UFC. He already has the greatest legacy in the ******* sport. People need to hop off his dick for a second.


WAS.....


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

suffersystem said:


> WAS.....


And? Do you even have a point or are you just showing me something I wrote? Fedor doesn't claim to be anything. It's the fans that do the talking.


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

MikeHawk said:


> And? Do you even have a point or are you just showing me something I wrote? Fedor doesn't claim to be anything. It's the fans that do the talking.


Fedor was just quoted a week or so ago as saying that he believes his fight with Werdum is more important than any other fight happening right now. The man tries to promote himself as facing top competition when he is fighting the likes of Werdum and Rogers.

Fedor is definitly ducking the tough fights these days and after seeing the way Alistair tore through Rogers im sure he will come up with more "negotiations" to have with strikeforce so that he can delay that fight as long as possible aswell.

I love Fedor but im not stupid and he is only hurting his own legacy with this crap he's trying to pull. Strikeforce will be going under soon because of M1's mob tactics aswell. According to Coker they have only sold 10,000 tickets which is about what they sell when Cung-Le is fighting. 

With M1 taking half of that money without putting up any of their own you can gaurentee it won't be long before strikeforce goes under considering they still have to pay the purse of Fedor and what not. It's the reason they had a seperate strikeforce last week for Lawler and Babalu because they cant afford to pay all these fighters at once and theyre trying to re-coop their losses.

Strikeforce has gotten themselfs in bed with the devil for a deal on this one and I won't be surprised if they turn belly up like Affliction.

I just cannot support anything Fedor or anthing his company does anymore. The man refuses to fight top competition and blatantly endorses mob tactics to leech off of other companies. 

That said I'm at the end of my ropes with him and pray to god that Werdum get's lucky as all hell and wins this fight so that M1 can't use Feor as leverage anymore and Fedor can start fighting real dudes again.


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## suffersystem (Feb 4, 2007)

MikeHawk said:


> And? Do you even have a point or are you just showing me something I wrote? Fedor doesn't claim to be anything. It's the fans that do the talking.


I thought it was clear, Fedor WAS the best. I truly don't beleive he is anymore.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Emericanaddict said:


> Fedor was just quoted a week or so ago as saying that he believes his fight with Werdum is more important than any other fight happening right now. The man tries to promote himself as facing top competition when he is fighting the likes of Werdum and Rogers.


So you think Shane Carwin is more legit than Werdum? If you don't think Werdum is top competiton then you're delusional. He's one of the most dangerous HW's when it comes to the ground game.



> Fedor is definitly ducking the tough fights these days and after seeing the way Alistair tore through Rogers im sure he will come up with more "negotiations" to have with strikeforce so that he can delay that fight as long as possible aswell.


Yeah, Fedor is ducking Overeem, a guy who's lost to every legit competition he's faced. Lol...


> I love Fedor but im not stupid and he is only hurting his own legacy with this crap he's trying to pull. Strikeforce will be going under soon because of M1's mob tactics aswell. According to Coker they have only sold 10,000 tickets which is about what they sell when Cung-Le is fighting.


Uhh, you can't hurt a legacy bro. That'd be like saying Chuck Liddel no longer has a legacy for getting KO'd repeatedly after his prime. 


> With M1 taking half of that money without putting up any of their own you can gaurentee it won't be long before strikeforce goes under considering they still have to pay the purse of Fedor and what not. It's the reason they had a seperate strikeforce last week for Lawler and Babalu because they cant afford to pay all these fighters at once and theyre trying to re-coop their losses.


Business is business. If you think it's all sunshine and smiles then you've got a lot to learn. The UFC is no better than M-1.


> Strikeforce has gotten themselfs in bed with the devil for a deal on this one and I won't be surprised if they turn belly up like Affliction.
> 
> I just cannot support anything Fedor or anthing his company does anymore. The man refuses to fight top competition and blatantly endorses mob tactics to leech off of other companies.
> 
> That said I'm at the end of my ropes with him and pray to god that Werdum get's lucky as all hell and wins this fight so that M1 can't use Feor as leverage anymore and Fedor can start fighting real dudes again.


Right, because the UFC is so great when it comes to treating their fighters well.

Fedor is at a point in his career where he has nothing left to prove. At this point, he's just trying to set himself up for a nice retirement. But, apparently people can't realize this and assume he's ducking fighters.

Now, I'm not saying Fedor is still the best and I'm not saying he isn't. But I'm not gonna try and act like I know how he'd do in the UFC like the rest of you.


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## suffersystem (Feb 4, 2007)

MikeHawk said:


> So you think Shane Carwin is more legit than Werdum? If you don't think Werdum is top competiton then you're delusional. He's one of the most dangerous HW's when it comes to the ground game.
> 
> 
> Yeah, Fedor is ducking Overeem, a guy who's lost to every legit competition he's faced. Lol...
> ...


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

MikeHawk said:


> So you think Shane Carwin is more legit than Werdum? If you don't think Werdum is top competiton then you're delusional. He's one of the most dangerous HW's when it comes to the ground game.
> 
> 
> Yeah, Fedor is ducking Overeem, a guy who's lost to every legit competition he's faced. Lol...
> ...


1. Yes Carwin is more legit than Werdum at the moment. Werdum is a fighter who in his hayday was awesome but as of late has fallen by the wayside and hasn't risen to any challenges worth ntoing.

Carwin has been KO'ing everyone they put in front of him within minutes if not seconds, even though he has been the under dog in his last several fights.

2. I didn't Fedor IS ducking anyone. I said I wouldnt be surprised if he tries to postpone the fight after watching his latest perfromce. Overeem is young and only getting better and had no difficulty tossing Rogers like a baby.

Fedor is getting older and only slowing down with time. Fedor had a difficult time with Rogers in the clinch and on the ground. If he couldnt handle Roger's strength then Overeem could easily end up overpowering Fedor and negating his *****.

3. Yes you can indeed hurt your legacy it's why im preaching for Chuck to hang up his gloves. He has nothing left to prove and further KO's only make his record look bad. Just ask Shamrock dude, he left a terrible taste in everyones mouth's by not retiring when he should have.

4. Youve got to be retarded to try and compare the UFC to M1. When is the last time UFC kept their fighters from fighting legit competition or used mob tactics in order to "Co-Promote"? Never, that's when. Dana White runs a legitimate business which put's on good shows all the time and pays it's fighters accordingly aswell as help's them secure sponsorship deals and proper healthcare.

M1 runs a shoddy production that has no value other than the name of Fedor and uses that to leech off of other companies. It's ignorant to say business is business is a situation like this. Just because you can do it doesnt mean it's right. The same reason the Don King is a friggin criminal really.

5. Last but not least, yeah the UFC treat's it's fighters great actually. They pay them well and give them several fights after a loss to redeem themselfs and cover alot of the mdeical expenses aswell. The UFC also PROMOTES their fighters and get's them proper exposure thus garnering them a fan base and proper sponsor's to help with their income.

Fedor is definitly ducking fighters. How many dudes like Carwin, Lesnar, Mir and even the lieks of Velasquez would love a shot at the guy. But he refuses to fight in the UFC as an excuse. Dana White want's nothing to do with M1 and I don't blame him.

But if Fedor cannot tarnish his legacy at this point as you stated then why not fight these guys? It will be a huge payday and massive exposure for M1. There is no reason other than Fedor would rather fight guys like Werdum and claim it to be a relevant fight within the HW division.

Im sorry but the dude is getting ridiculous and i sued to be a big fan but he's really driven me away lately.

That's just my oppinion and you don't have to take it as fact obviously but I just wish he would do the right thing and fight some legit guys.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

suffersystem said:


> I thought it was clear, Fedor WAS the best. I truly don't beleive he is anymore.


I think that most people agree that Fedor has dropped down the rankings for the best in the world. Most popular P4P lists have Fedor at #3 or lower.


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## Drowning Donkey (Dec 11, 2009)

snakerattle79 said:


> http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=11845&zoneid=13
> 
> Top ranked heavyweight Fedor Emelianenko last week said he wasn't a fan of the UFC. On Tuesday, UFC heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar proclaimed that he's no fan of Fedor either.
> 
> ...


I almost p*ss my pants when I read these kind of crap from a guy with 5 MMA fights. 

I agree that Fedor has fallen from the top of the P4P list but he'll always be a one of the best to have put on gloves and one of the greatest champions ever. 

Brock is a good fighter and it may well be that he'd win against Fedor if they would fight today though I doubt it. But prime Fedor would mop the floor with him. 

Untill Brock has wins over more then 1 real contender he should be more respectful to fighters that have beaten the best of the best for ten years. Even though they might be slowing down a bit.


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## xeene (Nov 20, 2009)

Drowning Donkey said:


> Untill Brock has wins over more then 1 real contender he should be more respectful to fighters that have beaten the best of the best for ten years. Even though they might be slowing down a bit.


well said! that's why people like fedor, he respects other fighters no matter where they fight. brock = typical trash talking ufc puppet.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

To me, it honestly does look like he's ducking big fights... he's getting old, possibly losing a step or two.. which is fine but call it what it is. 

If there was no jeopardy to his legacy than people would have nothing to complain about. He would continue to fight the best in the world or hang up his gloves. Unfortunately for him, he continues to duck fights which will only leave everyone with all the questions. But don't get me wrong, it doesn't take away from what he's done.. but a Legacy involves your entire career.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

Drowning Donkey said:


> Untill Brock has wins over more then 1 real contender he should be more respectful to fighters that have beaten the best of the best for ten years. Even though they might be slowing down a bit.


He could beat Carwin, Velasquez, and Nogueira, and you would still say he has to beat another contender. He beat Mir in his prime, beat Herring worse than I've ever seen him beat, and dominated Couture. No, that's not quite the resume of Fedor, but cut him some slack.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Well, obviously Fedor must be the best since people have to keep going on about how he's not the best.


It's because all the fan-based mma orgs such as Sherdog have propped Fedor up in the rankings. When a guy is dubiously ranked #1, what other choice do they have but to comment? Lesnar's comment cracked me up, though, I must say. Starting to really like the guy. If a guy is afraid to come to the big leagues and fight you, you may as well have fun with him. Even if Fedor came over and lost, I have a ton of respect for him just for going for it. 



amoosenamedhank said:


> To me, it honestly does look like he's ducking big fights... he's getting old, possibly losing a step or two.. which is fine but call it what it is.
> 
> If there was no jeopardy to his legacy than people would have nothing to complain about. He would continue to fight the best in the world or hang up his gloves. Unfortunately for him, he continues to duck fights which will only leave everyone with all the questions. But don't get me wrong, it doesn't take away from what he's done.. but a Legacy involves your entire career.


Well said.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

As it stands right now, Lesnar, Cain, Carwin and JDS are all about potential. None of them have faced each other and therefore cant claim to be the #1 heavyweight. So, whether anybody might believe Fedor is #1 or not... none of the others have done anything yet! But yes, the UFC heavyweights are potentially awesome.

And as for Lesnars "In his own little world" comment. Well, yes Brock. You are right. Except his "little" world is just about the whole east side of the planet. Not so little. Not a small amount of people. What's your point Brock you twat?


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

MikeHawk said:


> Wow, how many times do these idiots have to hate on Fedor before they shut up. Dude was the best HW and the #1 p4p fighter for 7 years. He doesn't need the UFC. He already has the greatest legacy in the ******* sport. People need to hop off his dick for a second.


Totally true......._in his own little world_. :laugh: (think I'm becoming a Lesnar fan)


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

Fedor has proven his legitimacy and secured his legacy. The only outstanding accomplishment that would further his legacy would be to hold the UFC Heavyweight title. He isn’t interested enough to try to make this happen. Any UFC champion concerning themselves with what Fedor is doing is only bringing into question the legitimacy of their belt. Brock’s answer should be simply “Fedor knows where I am and if he wants the belt he knows what he needs to do to make it happen.”
I have mixed feelings about seeing Fedor in the UFC. I was very excited to see the Pride gang come to the UFC and the only one I’ve been really happy with is Wanderlei. I was impressed by Anderson until lately, but I still contend the UFC can’t keep the diva challenged and he gets bored.
Both Strikeforce and the UFC have great heavyweight rosters anymore and I think both are now legitimate organizations. Strikeforce has more room for improvement than the UFC (Shields post-fight brawl and Overeem finally defending his belt to the guy that just lost to Fedor) but I still enjoy watching their productions.
I guess bottom line, I would love to see Fedor vs a current UFC champion but if not I still respect the guy. I don’t believe in a P4P list and I never have. It all comes down to who was he better man that night and that’s how fighting should be.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Fieos said:


> Fedor has proven his legitimacy and secured his legacy.


I agree with this BTW. Even coming over the the UFC and getting smashed will not take away from what he's done. All legends go out in a blaze of glory. Fedor seems to be trying to avoid that. It's not a question of whether he's earned a legacy, but whether or not he deserves his #1 HW ranking today, and has the courage to defend that ranking via fighting the best. Legends like Liddell never ducked anyone for the sake of protecting their record or ranking. If Fedor goes out the cowardly way, that will be his legacy. He was great, then became a ducker. You as a fan should not want that for him.



Fieos said:


> Any UFC champion concerning themselves with what Fedor is doing is only bringing into question the legitimacy of their belt.


This would be true if Fedor wasn't dubiously ranked #1 by orgs like Sherdog. You can't blame HW's for commenting on him. That's the only reason anyone is talking about Fedor. He's fighting cans and keeping his ranking.


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

Not surprising, people eventually are just going to stop caring about the guy. Of course he still has legions of fans, but I feel the same away about Fedor that I do with Mayweather vs Pacquiao, either make it happen or STFU. It doesn't matter to me if he retires or not, I don't find fighters like Werdum relevent in terms of top ranked competition.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

Calminian said:


> This would be true if Fedor wasn't dubiously ranked #1 by orgs like Sherdog. You can't blame HW's for commenting on him. That's the only reason anyone is talking about Fedor. He's fighting cans and keeping his ranking.


Honestly I attribute most of that to fan fanaticism or monetarily influenced. That is why I place no value on those lists. The only thing those lists really do is ensure that people will visit the forums to debate them. P4P lists are the ultimate forum troll.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> As it stands right now, Lesnar, Cain, Carwin and JDS are all about potential. None of them have faced each other and therefore cant claim to be the #1 heavyweight. So, whether anybody might believe Fedor is #1 or not... none of the others have done anything yet! But yes, the UFC heavyweights are potentially awesome.
> 
> And as for Lesnars "In his own little world" comment. Well, yes Brock. You are right. Except his "little" world is just about the whole east side of the planet. Not so little. Not a small amount of people. What's your point Brock you twat?


I couldn't agree with this anymore. They all have great potential but as it stands now, they're nothing but hype until they face each other.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

MikeHawk said:


> I couldn't agree with this anymore. They all have great potential but as it stands now, they're nothing but hype until they face each other.


Huh? 

How does Cain, JDS, Lesnar and Carwin facing each other affect Fedor hype? :confused02:

If that' all it takes to displace Fedor from #1 (per the post you agreed with), it's a done deal, because they will all face one another eventually and there will be winners. 

It's _non sequitur_. Sherdog's ranking of Fedor has nothing to do with the UFC HW div. It's emotional nostalgia. Regardless of who emerges at the top of the UFC, Fedor will keep his ranking.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Calminian said:


> Huh?
> 
> How does Cain, JDS, Lesnar and Carwin facing each other affect Fedor hype? :confused02:
> 
> ...


Do you really not see how it would affect Fedors ranking? If Cain, JDS, Carwin and Lesnar all fight each other and come out of that mini-tournament with at least a loss each... then there will still be plenty of room for debate. Especially if Fedor beats Werdum and Overeem. However, if one of them comes out of that melee 3-0, then they would undoubtedly be considered the current #1 heavyweight.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> Do you really not see how it would affect Fedors ranking? If Cain, JDS, Carwin and Lesnar all fight each other and come out of that mini-tournament with at least a loss each... then there will still be plenty of room for debate. Especially if Fedor beats Werdum and Overeem. However, if one of them comes out of that melee 3-0, then they would undoubtedly be considered the current #1 heavyweight.


To the rational mind, yes. But we're talking about Sherdog. 

Not only that, currently all the fan orgs have Fedor ranked above each of these fighters. So at best, in their mind, it would be a fight for 2nd place. It's just kind of the weird way the Fedor cult rolls.


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

Fedor is disturbingly beloved. The level of competition he fights would be absolutely maligned if any other #1 fighter fought them. Werdum is a consensus #10, no higher no lower. Can you imagine if GSP fought Hughes or Almeida rather than Koscheck, or if Edgar fought Sotiroplios instead of Penn, how about is Silva doesnt fight Sonnen, and instead fights Bisping? Shogun vs Franklin anyone?


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> Do you really not see how it would affect Fedors ranking? If Cain, JDS, Carwin and Lesnar all fight each other and come out of that mini-tournament with at least a loss each... then there will still be plenty of room for debate. Especially if Fedor beats Werdum and Overeem. However, if one of them comes out of that melee 3-0, then they would undoubtedly be considered the current #1 heavyweight.


:bye02:

Seriously guy? So Fedor is number one unless a fighter in a completely non related organization wins a "mini-tournament".... but if the results of the "mini-tournament" leaves the fighters with a lose.... Fedor by default is still considered the best in the world? 

The fact of the matter is... unless Fedor comes to the UFC and fights any of these HW, speculating who is the best is really just a giant circle jerk.:sarcastic12:

But for argument sake... even if one of the UFC HW goes 2-3 he's still faced a lot higher competition than Fedar has....

Holy double post batman!


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Calminian said:


> Huh?
> 
> How does Cain, JDS, Lesnar and Carwin facing each other affect Fedor hype? :confused02:
> 
> ...


I hope they will face each other and someone comes out on top. But, it effects the rankings right now because they can't be considered the top HW's if they haven't fought each other yet.

For instance, Lesnar is considered the best HW by many people right now just because he has the belt. But, IMO Cain, JDS, and Carwin have been much more impressive. So, after they fight each other it will be much more clear and just like Soojooko said if they all come out with losses it'd be hard to say any of them are clearly better than Fedor.

TBH I could care less about P4P rankings. It's just an opinion.



> Seriously guy? So Fedor is number one unless a fighter in a completely non related organization wins a "mini-tournament".... but if the results of the "mini-tournament" leaves the fighters with a lose.... Fedor by default is still considered the best in the world?
> 
> The fact of the matter is... unless Fedor comes to the UFC and fights any of these HW, speculating who is the best is really just a giant circle jerk.


How is the organization unrelated when we're talking P4P rankings? Company does not matter.
And that's not what he said at all. It's more like if they all have losses you couldn't say for certain that they're above Fedor.
And of course P4P is a circle jerk. Debating an opinion usually is.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Yes P4P is speculation but so is saying that Fedor is the best fighter. With no speculation, you can only say that Fedor is the best HW, but then again, that is an opinion as well. P4P is for when you are comparing all fighters no matter what their weight classes.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

I didn't realize you guys are talking P4P. I'm strictly talking HW rankings. I dont consider any of the current HW's anywhere near #1 P4P... just to be clear.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

The problem i have is that Fedor is considered the best because he has beaten the likes of Cro-Cop and Nogueira and then amased this giant win streak. 

But the fact of the matter is others have beaten Nogueria and Cro-cop and guys of that level but have then gone on to face top level competition after that and not managed to win all the fights.

Take Gonzaga for example. He isn't even considered top 10 HW let alone top 10 P4P yet he beat Cro-cop. This is because 3 of his next 5 fights after that win were against top competition and he couldn't beat them.
Fedor's 5 fights after beating Cro-cop were against Zuluzinho, Mark Coleman, Mark Hunt, Matt Lindland and Hong Man Choi... elite mma artists :sarcastic12:

I'm british and am gonna try an american analogy so bear with me if it doesn't make sense!

To me its like a minor league baseball team destorying everyone they play in the minor leagues, then having 4 or 5 matches with major league teams, winning them, and then going back to the minor leagues, whilst the major league teams are having to play at a higher level every week, obviously the minor league team amases a more impressive W/L record but does that make them better? I say no!

I dont see anyone in the UFC ever getting as impressive record as Fedor but that is because every fight a top HW has in the UFC is against another very credible fighter, i don't think unless Fedor is willing to make the step up and fight credible fighters he can be considered top anymore. just my 2 cents!

Also how anyone can think Fedor's record is more impressive than GSP's and Anderson's is beyond me!


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> I didn't realize you guys are talking P4P. I'm strictly talking HW rankings. I dont consider any of the current HW's anywhere near #1 P4P... just to be clear.


Would you post your pound-for-pound top 10?


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

MikeHawk said:


> So you think Shane Carwin is more legit than Werdum? If you don't think Werdum is top competiton then you're delusional. He's one of the most dangerous HW's when it comes to the ground game.
> 
> 
> Yeah, Fedor is ducking Overeem, a guy who's lost to every legit competition he's faced. Lol...
> ...


Well lets see Andrei Arlovski beat him, NoG beat him, JDS beat him, I dont think he's even in the top 8 of heavyweight fighters and arguably not even top ten although Im not saying that. He got a taste of how high the level of competition is in the UFC realized he cant hang and went to strikeforce but somehow he's a contender? ummm no.

I guess you can go back to his win over Overeem in 06 and say that makes him a top fighter, thats what you would have to do because a win over a undersized Brandon Vera and a shaky Gabriel Gonzaga make him a top fighter? I kind of see him as a gate keeper because he dose have skill its just not enough, he's never beat anyone relevant and he's been beat by the fighters he faced the were relevant at the time he faced them = mid level fighter.

Even if he beat Fedor I dont think I could rank him higher than what 4th?


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## mratch19 (Nov 19, 2007)

edlavis88 said:


> The problem i have is that Fedor is considered the best because he has beaten the likes of Cro-Cop and Nogueira and then amased this giant win streak.
> 
> But the fact of the matter is others have beaten Nogueria and Cro-cop and guys of that level but have then gone on to face top level competition after that and not managed to win all the fights.
> 
> ...


i do love fedor but well said. repped.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

slapshot said:


> Well lets see Andrei Arlovski beat him, NoG beat him, JDS beat him, I dont think he's even in the top 8 of heavyweight fighters and arguably not even top ten although Im not saying that. He got a taste of how high the level of competition is in the UFC realized he cant hang and went to strikeforce but somehow he's a contender? ummm no.


Arlovski was ranked *number six*, when he fought Werdum, who was ranked *number seven* at the time. (Source) Nogueira was ranked *number two*, when he fought Werdum, who was ranked *number nine* at the time. (Source)

We don't even need to talk about JDS, 'cause he's on his way to the top real quick.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

UrbanBounca said:


> Would you post your pound-for-pound top 10?


Nope.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> Nope.


Why? I want to see where you'd place current HW's, if you would place them at all.


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Well, obviously Fedor must be the best since people have to keep going on about how he's not the best.


Wrong.....

People "go on about it" because Fedor ducked the UFC and joined an organization where he had a better chance to retire sort of undefeated.

People "go on about it" because they have to guess who is better because Fedor, who had a chance to prove himself, choose the easy way out.

I am all for Fedor relaxing and getting a few good paydays before retiring, but that is very different than being the best. He could have proved he is the best, or he could have fought at SF. You know which way he went.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

UrbanBounca said:


> Why? I want to see where you'd place current HW's, if you would place them at all.


Not sure there should be any HW on the P4P list up until very recently it has been the least competitive of all the weight classes, Fedor or Brock may sneak in but nowhere near the top 5.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

UrbanBounca said:


> Arlovski was ranked *number six*, when he fought Werdum, who was ranked *number seven* at the time. (Source) Nogueira was ranked *number two*, when he fought Werdum, who was ranked *number nine* at the time. (Source)
> 
> We don't even need to talk about JDS, 'cause he's on his way to the top real quick.


Nogueira and Arlovski both beat him lets fast foreword to the present and now look were they are in the standings... 

Sorry, I mean the dude is a good fighter but he's just not top competition and if Fedor beats him big deal he should beat him.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

UrbanBounca said:


> Why? I want to see where you'd place current HW's, if you would place them at all.


Ok, ok... I was being a little sensationalist. I would put Fedor at #3 behind Silva and GSP. But the other HW's outside the top 5.

Im not saying it'll stay that way. For the record I consider Cain amazing and hope he can prove it. But he hasnt yet.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

When Brock joined UFC I thought he was just ambitious, during the last year he proved to be very arrogant. I hope Shane Carwin will knock him out cold. Carwin is the man and Lesnar is still like a bad boy from WWF. Hopefully, Dos Santos and Velasquez will manage to "remove" him from TOP 5 HW. 2 losses in a row via TKO/KO/SUB will do just fine for the guy disrespecting fighters who have made so much for the sport which he "recently invaded" with his WWE credentials. Werdum was offered to fight a newcomer on UFC 90 after his 2 wins via TKO and this WWE guy was offered an immediate and completely undeserved title shot on UFC 91. I wish JDS had fought Lesnar and knocked him out on UFC 90 and Werdum'd fought Couture, that would've been fair. In that case, we wouldn't have to listen to the guy claiming to be the biggest wish in the big league and insinuating that PRIDE FC was a small league... Anyway, I hope Carwin will take what he deserves - the UFC belt.


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

The_Senator said:


> When Brock joined UFC I thought he was just ambitious, during the last year he proved to be very arrogant. I hope Shane Carwin will knock him out cold. Carwin is the man and Lesnar is still like a bad boy from WWF. Hopefully, Dos Santos and Velasquez will manage to "remove" him from TOP 5 HW. 2 losses in a row via TKO/KO/SUB will do just fine for the guy disrespecting fighters who have made so much for the sport which he "recently invaded" with his WWE credentials. Werdum was offered to fight a newcomer on UFC 90 after his 2 wins via TKO and this WWE guy was offered an immediate and completely undeserved title shot on UFC 91. I wish JDS had fought Lesnar and knocked him out on UFC 90 and Werdum'd fought Couture, that would've been fair. In that case, we wouldn't have to listen to the guy claiming to be the biggest wish in the big league and insinuating that PRIDE FC was a small league... Anyway, I hope Carwin will take what he deserves - the UFC belt.


Proof positive that LSD is still being sold.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> Proof positive that LSD is still being sold.


it is indeed


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

Emericanaddict said:


> Fedor is definitly ducking fighters. But he refuses to fight in the UFC as an excuse. Dana White want's nothing to do with M1 and I don't blame him.


Well, no you're wrong.
Fedor Isnt "ducking" anyone. If Dana had agreed to co-promote last year, the year before that or one of the other god knows how many meetings they've had, then we all would've seen Fedor vs Brock by now. 

On another topic, I hope Werdum submits Fedor this saturday and sends M1-Global dumbling down into oblivion, perhaps then we'll actually get to see Brock vs Fedor. Although, I'd much rather see Cain vs Fedor. That would be one hell of a fight.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

slapshot said:


> Nogueira and Arlovski both beat him lets fast foreword to the present and now look were they are in the standings...
> 
> Sorry, I mean the dude is a good fighter but he's just not top competition and if Fedor beats him big deal he should beat him.


Werdum lost to them then, and you want to talk about presently? Why? When Werdum fought them, they were top competition.

Currently, Werdum is ranked *number nine*, according to Sherdog. He is ranked *number eight*, according to Fight Magazine. He is ranked *number ten*, according to Fight Matrix.

We all wish Fedor would fight a top five contender, but even so, Werdum is a top ten ranked HW.


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

Vale_Tudo said:


> Well, no you're wrong.
> Fedor Isnt "ducking" anyone. If Dana had agreed to co-promote last year, the year before that or one of the other god knows how many meetings they've had, then we all would've seen Fedor vs Brock by now.
> 
> On another topic, I hope Werdum submits Fedor this saturday and sends M1-Global dumbling down into oblivion, perhaps then we'll actually get to see Brock vs Fedor. Although, I'd much rather see Cain vs Fedor. That would be one hell of a fight.


So if Dana agreed to give half the profits to an organization that has 1 fighter then he would have fought Brock, who was too sick to fight, by now.

I can see now, it's all Dana's fault.



UrbanBounca said:


> Werdum lost to them then, and you want to talk about presently? Why? When Werdum fought them, they were top competition.
> 
> Currently, Werdum is ranked *number nine*, according to Sherdog. He is ranked *number eight*, according to Fight Magazine. He is ranked *number ten*, according to Fight Matrix.
> 
> We all wish Fedor would fight a top five contender, but even so, Werdum is a top ten ranked HW.


I have listened to the Fedor arguments, so I went back and watched Werdum/Dos Santos. Dos Santos destroyed Werdum in 1:20. Werdum landed 2 kicks.
So he may be ranked 8th, 9th or 10th, but he isn't up to UFC standards.
You all are going to have to come up with a better argument to sway most.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> So he may be ranked 8th, 9th or 10th, but he isn't up to UFC standards.


Then Gonzaga and Vera are also not up to UFC standards. Mir, maybe, too since he was beaten pretty bad by a natural LHW, what is he still doing in UFC? And why has Carwin got his title shot when he beat the guy who is not up to UFC standards (Gonzaga)? Werdum beat him twice...


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

Majortom505 said:


> I have listened to the Fedor arguments, so I went back and watched Werdum/Dos Santos. Dos Santos destroyed Werdum in 1:20. Werdum landed 2 kicks.
> So he may be ranked 8th, 9th or 10th, but he isn't up to UFC standards.
> You all are going to have to come up with a better argument to sway most.


We weren't talking about Werdum being up to _UFC standards_. He said Werdum wasn't ranked, and I gave three credible sources saying otherwise.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Majortom505 said:


> I have listened to the Fedor arguments, so I went back and watched Werdum/Dos Santos. Dos Santos destroyed Werdum in 1:20. Werdum landed 2 kicks.
> So he may be ranked 8th, 9th or 10th, but he isn't up to UFC standards.
> You all are going to have to come up with a better argument to sway most.


Werdum as a top 10 HW is a gift, just like Sherdog elevates all fighters who fight Fedor outside the UFC. Regardless of whom Fedor was fighting, Sherdog would put them in the top 10. Aren't these the same guys that had AA at #2 (even after dropping two fights to Sylvia)? Wasn't Barnett even #2 at some point? A lot of this mess boils down to Dana resentment. All you have to do is listen to a Sherdog radio show and you hear it. They've kept this Fedor thing going hoping some other org will rise to the level of the UFC. If Werdum was still in the UFC he would be lucky to be in the top 20.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

Calminian said:


> Werdum as a top 10 HW is a gift, just like Sherdog elevates all fighters who fight Fedor outside the UFC. Regardless of whom Fedor was fighting, Sherdog would put them in the top 10. Aren't these the same guys that had AA at #2 (even after dropping two fights to Sylvia)? Wasn't Barnett even #2 at some point? A lot of this mess boils down to Dana resentment. All you have to do is listen to a Sherdog radio show and you hear it. They've kept this Fedor thing going hoping some other org will rise to the level of the UFC. If Werdum was still in the UFC he would be lucky to be in the top 20.


I'll accept your Sherdog argument, but I hope you have an explanation for every other site.


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

The_Senator said:


> Then Gonzaga and Vera are also not up to UFC standards. Mir, maybe, too since he was beaten pretty bad by a natural LHW, what is he still doing in UFC? And why has Carwin got his title shot when he beat the guy who is not up to UFC standards (Gonzaga)? Werdum beat him twice...


I totally agree. Vera and Gonzaga aren't very good and don't belong in the UFC. I don't even think Gonzaga is in the UFC anymore, if he is it is for the same reason Vera is, he has a contract.
You are trying to stand on rankings when we all know that there are maybe 7 good HW's in all the world, and they are heads and tails better than the rest.
Mir I just don't know about, he can be very good and very bad. I am no Mir fan.


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

Lesnar is 6'4" weighs 280 at fight time, Fedor is 6' and weighs 230 - 50lbs difference, over 20% more. That's like Silva vs. BJ Penn, come on.
If the situation were reversed, a 6' 230lb Lesnar vs. a 6'4" 280lb Fedor, the fight wouldn't be close. My point is that 
1. Fedor is the more skilled fighter, imo;
2. at the elite level size matters (that's why they have weight divisions);
3. and that there needs to be a weight division between 205 and 265.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> I totally agree. Vera and Gonzaga aren't very good and don't belong in the UFC. I don't even think Gonzaga is in the UFC anymore, if he is it is for the same reason Vera is, he has a contract.
> You are trying to stand on rankings when we all know that there are maybe 7 good HW's in all the world, and they are heads and tails better than the rest.
> Mir I just don't know about, he can be very good and very bad. I am no Mir fan.


Either way, I was trying to say that Werdum should've stayed in UFC. I mean, he was knocked out only once in his career and immediately kicked out like garbage for no reason. He hasn't ever been submitted. JDS was submitted once. UFC treats all fighters differently. They can release Werdum and bring back Baroni and Trigg and keep giving them chances to redeem themselves (although everyone knows including UFC management they won't) even when they perform terribly in their first fights right after return. Or how about pathetic treatment of Fitch and Leites who were cut, then returned on the next day. This is ridiculous, what is it a game?


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

The_Senator said:


> Either way, I was trying to say that Werdum should've stayed in UFC. I mean, he was knocked out only once in his career and immediately kicked out like garbage for no reason. He hasn't ever been submitted. JDS was submitted once. UFC treats all fighters differently. They can release Werdum and bring back Baroni and Trigg and keep giving them chances to redeem themselves (although everyone knows including UFC management they won't) even when they perform terribly in their first fights right after return. Or how about pathetic treatment of Fitch and Leites who were cut, then returned on the next day. This is ridiculous, what is it a game?


From Dave Meltzer at Yahoo Sports....
"Werdum proudly lifts his shirt to show a tight waist, very different from the 16-pound heavier and softer fighter who was knocked out in the first round by a then-unknown Junior Dos Santos in Chicago on Oct. 25, 2008. That loss led to him being cut from UFC, where he compiled a 2-2 record."


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

oops. wrong thread.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

I'm not fan of fedor but i enjoy watching him fight. You are not a real fight fan if u can't understand how great he is. Fedor hands down is the most skilled HW hell i'll say he is the most skilled fighter in MMA today. Yes you all can say Lesnar can beat him or whatever (I think lesnar size would be to much). But deep down every fight nows size don;t matter. Fedor is the only fighter in MMA that i have seen give 110% every fight and fights to win every fight. I have never seen any fighter that has the heart and killer instinct that fedor poses. I would love to see him in the ufc but I don;t think he likes the media attention.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

How can you people say Fedor is the best P4P fighter? The guy doesn't dominate his opponents the way Anderson does. Anderson goes in there and destroys his opponent. He even plays with them. Anderson takes little to no damage in fights. Fedor takes quite the beating and hasn't had a completely one sided domination in quite sometime. Not only that but Anderson consistently faces the top fighters in his class. He doesn't take an entire year off to face the easier competition.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

*...Lesnar is such a pinhead!!!*

...More garbage spewing from the mouth from a man who just 6 months ago was sick and will have some cage rust. He's 4-1 and talks trash about the most respected & accomplished HW fighter in MMA history. Now just because Fedor isn't in the UFC he's no good anymore? Fedor has *27* more fights than Lesnar. *22* of Fedor's fights have been 1st round finishes. Lesnar knows he will *never* accomplish in MMA what Fedor has done. Enough said about that. Brock is about to fight a man that can actually send him to la la land and quick. Carwin has enough strength & wrestling to hold his own and without question has cleaner, more accurate, faster punching with an amazing camp. Carwin has a much better chance of connecting cleaner than Lesnar. If Carwin does, Brock will fall. Shane wants Brock to exchange with him. I hope Lesnar gets sucked into a brawling exchange with Shane. He will get smashed. Shane is gonna bring it to Brock like no other. Lesnar needs to get off Fedor's jock and prepare to become an ex-champion. Carwin will be the man to humble him...


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## rogi (Aug 26, 2007)

AlphaDawg said:


> How can you people say Fedor is the best P4P fighter? The guy doesn't dominate his opponents the way Anderson does. Anderson goes in there and destroys his opponent. He even plays with them. Anderson takes little to no damage in fights. Fedor takes quite the beating and hasn't had a completely one sided domination in quite sometime. Not only that but Anderson consistently faces the top fighters in his class. He doesn't take an entire year off to face the easier competition.


Anderson Silva not once in his whole career fought anyone really good. Name someone who is really, really good he fought? Anderson Silva is a ***** for always fighting people who are way smaller then himself. Silva really rose to prominence in UFC, but really who has he defeated that PROVES he's the best fighter in any weight class? Henderson, Franklin, Forest? come on.


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

rogi said:


> Anderson Silva not once in his whole career fought anyone really good. Name someone who is really, really good he fought? Anderson Silva is a ***** for always fighting people who are way smaller then himself. Silva really rose to prominence in UFC, but really who has he defeated that PROVES he's the best fighter in any weight class? Henderson, Franklin, Forest? come on.


I guess those fighters aren't any good....:confused03:

Fedor and SIlva both only have one great win, Nog and Hendo respectively. 

However, Silva's resume besides that is much better.


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## MLD (Oct 15, 2006)

snakerattle79 said:


> http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=11845&zoneid=13
> 
> Top ranked heavyweight Fedor Emelianenko last week said he wasn't a fan of the UFC. On Tuesday, UFC heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar proclaimed that he's no fan of Fedor either.
> 
> ...


Brock has skill, but no class. Fedor will always be a crowd favorite with a legacy to be proud of. Brock will be the guy many want to see suffer a debilitating injury so he leaves the MMA scene forever. Or maybe that is just me...



rogi said:


> Anderson Silva not once in his whole career fought anyone really good. Name someone who is really, really good he fought? Anderson Silva is a ***** for always fighting people who are way smaller then himself. Silva really rose to prominence in UFC, but really who has he defeated that PROVES he's the best fighter in any weight class? Henderson, Franklin, Forest? come on.


Andy Silva hasn't proven to you that he is one of the best P4P fighters in the world? You are hard to convince. I'd say unless his love for mocking, dancing, taunting, stops him from using his skills, he'd clean out the LHW division pretty well too.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

MLD said:


> Brock has skill, but no class. Fedor will always be a crowd favorite with a legacy to be proud of. Brock will be the guy many want to see suffer a debilitating injury so he leaves the MMA scene forever. Or maybe that is just me...


Disagree Brock showed respect for Randy there's a difference between Fedor and Randy, Randy has cemented his legacy and still wants to fight top competition (excluding Toney)
Fedor unfortunately continues to fight mid tier competition. Brock just says what alot of people including me think, that Fedor's reign at the top could slip because he's not fighting top competition which unfortunately the UFC has.


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

Brock is 5 - 1:confused02: and he is making fun of Fedor's record?


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

My opinion on Fedor is this:

He's the greatest mixed martial artest of all time, thus far in our sport. He's held the longest meaningful win streak, he has, many times over, fought guys a lot bigger than him (Arlovski, Rogers, Sylvia, all much larger than him for recent examples), he's been #1 in the world BY FAR the longest amount of time, and has the greatest legacy that anyone can claim this far into our sport.

He's going to lose his rankings. He's going to. There's no way around it whatsoever. He could lose to Werdum tomorrow and retire, and he'll go down as the greastest MMA fighter thus far in our sport. Great fighters such as Shogun, GSP, Penn, Shields, Bas, etc, have all said he's the greatest, they all understand his legacy.

I'm actually done worrying about Fedor's rankings, both at HW and on the P4P list. He's already accomplished more than 99.9% of all fighters even dream of accomplishing. 

I'm going to just sit back, and watch the man fight, a man who has done nothing but been humble, and given us amazing fights for the last 10 years.


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

Majortom505 said:


> So if Dana agreed to give half the profits to an organization that has 1 fighter then he would have fought Brock, who was too sick to fight, by now.
> 
> I can see now, it's all Dana's fault.


You're missing the point! People are going on about how Fedor Is ducking UFC fighters, when In reality he Isnt. 
Im not saying Dana should co-promote, but If he did then Fedor would fight for the UFC.


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## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

Fedor was the greatest fighter of all-time for his generation.

It's unlikely that Fedor in his prime would have been able to go undefeated against the current generation of Heavyweights. And I doubt he'd break the top 2 or 3. Todays heavyweights are simply much bigger, stronger and more skilled than the people he has fought in his career.

He had a good run but greed from M1 will not help his legacy. I have less respect for him now than I did a year ago.


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Vale_Tudo said:


> Well, no you're wrong.
> Fedor Isnt "ducking" anyone. If Dana had agreed to co-promote last year, the year before that or one of the other god knows how many meetings they've had, then we all would've seen Fedor vs Brock by now.
> 
> On another topic, I hope Werdum submits Fedor this saturday and sends M1-Global dumbling down into oblivion, perhaps then we'll actually get to see Brock vs Fedor. Although, I'd much rather see Cain vs Fedor. That would be one hell of a fight.


Fedor is ducking fighters dude and he's using his crazy demands to get around it without looking like he is. Dana is smart NOT to "Co-Promote" with M1. Almost every signle organization they "Co-Promoted" with has since gone under or is bleeding $ and fast.

Dana isn't going to sell his soul because Fedor asked him to. Dana isn't stupid dude as evidenced by the fact that he hasn't given in to his insane demands. Fedor refuses to take fights that pose legitimate threats these days and there is no way around it.

He knows a massive company like UFC with the top talent won't pay him what he's asking and give into the insane demands so he goes to the small tiny shows that need publicity and are desperate for any kind of attention, beats their "champions" and then sucks the company's funds dry.

M1 is a leech of an organization that offers nothing for anyone who co-promotes with them other than 1 name which is FEDOR. That's their single bargaining chip and they use there methods to avoid real fights so that they cna hold onto that 1 chip.

Theres no point in talking about it anymore however because that's jsut how i feel and im certainly not going to change your mind but yeah it's my unbiased, fact based, oppinion on the subject. Sorry

Just wanted to note aswell that yes I believe Fedor WOULD fight the UFC guys if Dana gave into the crazy demands that they are asking for. But at that point even if Fedor was to lose he's still going to make the most insane amount of money ever and M1 as a whole would grow. It would be a win/win situation for him and that is the ONLY time he will fight, because there is no real risk for him. At that point he would just retire say it was due to age and have his legacy.

He doesn't care about fighting anymore though it's just about gaining profit for his M1 organization however. If he truly wanted to fight the best, he would compromise and meet Dana in the middle. Fact is he doesn't he just wants to leech off of others and try to spin a fight with Werdum to be huge.

It just really irks me because i used to have mad respect for Fedor but he just keeps pushing me further and further away.


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## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

Emericanaddict said:


> Fedor is ducking fighters dude and he's using his crazy demands to get around it without looking like he is. Dana is smart NOT to "Co-Promote" with M1. Almost every signle organization they "Co-Promoted" with has since gone under or is bleeding $ and fast.
> 
> Dana isn't going to sell his soul because Fedor asked him to. Dana isn't stupid dude as evidenced by the fact that he hasn't given in to his insane demands. Fedor refuses to take fights that pose legitimate threats these days and there is no way around it.
> 
> ...


QFT. Best post of the thread.

Fedor is possibly the best MM Artist to date, but he only cares about the money and keeping his record, just look at how he's a cancer for the companies he's worked for, he doesn't promote the company he's working for, he just bleeds them to death. That's his legacy.

Compare that to UFC legends like Tito, Chuck or Randy; those have in their legacy making MMA what it is today.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

valrond said:


> QFT. Best post of the thread.
> 
> Fedor is possibly the best MM Artist to date, but he only cares about the money and keeping his record, just look at how he's a cancer for the companies he's worked for, he doesn't promote the company he's working for, he just bleeds them to death. That's his legacy.
> 
> Compare that to UFC legends like Tito, Chuck or Randy; those have in their legacy making MMA what it is today.


Fedor is to damn big for small markets. If fedor mentally had a personally and media appearance like Rampage he could take strikeforce to the top. But Fedor is a quiet man and simple man, in the UFC i don;'t think fedor would be hyping his fights. Tito,Randy,Chuck are all media whores they love the camera. Hell have u ever seen fedor show emotions during his intros. I don't know how u can say he cares about his record when he fights anyone strikefroce throws at him, he said he would fight brock. Its just the politics that is stopping Brock vs Fedor. U can bash him all u want but if the UFC would co promote Brock vs Fedor do u think fedor will say no? Fedor is heavily invested in M1 unlike many fighters after he is done fighting he does not have to worry about money cause of this investment.


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

Michael Carson said:


> My opinion on Fedor is this:
> 
> He's the greatest mixed martial artest *of all time, thus far* in our sport.


I don't think that makes sense. He's either the greatest of all time, or he's the greatest thus far. (Hence using the moniker "...of all time" is risky, because you never know.)

Other than that, I agree with your post!


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> Fedor is to damn big for small markets. If fedor mentally had a personally and media appearance like Rampage he could take strikeforce to the top. But Fedor is a quiet man and simple man, in the UFC i don;'t think fedor would be hyping his fights. Tito,Randy,Chuck are all media whores they love the camera. Hell have u ever seen fedor show emotions during his intros. I don't know how u can say he cares about his record when he fights anyone strikefroce throws at him, he said he would fight brock. Its just the politics that is stopping Brock vs Fedor. U can bash him all u want but if the UFC would co promote Brock vs Fedor do u think fedor will say no? Fedor is heavily invested in M1 unlike many fighters after he is done fighting he does not have to worry about money cause of this investment.


I don't think you understand.
A lot of people see the demand for co-promotion as Fedor ducking the best.
Fighting the best Strikeforce has, when many think Strikeforce is a minor league, isn't very impressive and it still doesn't get him fighting the best there is.


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## Johnni G (Dec 2, 2009)

Good read


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

MikeHawk said:


> And? Do you even have a point or are you just showing me something I wrote? Fedor doesn't claim to be anything. It's the fans that do the talking.


his record speaks for itself.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

chilo said:


> his record speaks for itself.


Sorry I'm just so sick of the specious argument. Records do not speak for themselves. They're mere numbers and mean nothing out of context. The level of competition you beat is what speaks. A little league team could have a better record then the world series champions. That's how silly that argument is.


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## JonCR96Z (Sep 16, 2009)

Calminian said:


> Sorry I'm just so sick of the specious argument. Records do not speak for themselves. They're mere numbers and mean nothing out of context. The level of competition you beat is what speaks. A little league team could have a better record then the world series champions. That's how silly that argument is.


I have a perfect MMA record and have even taken on 30+ opponents at once. Granted I only fight 2 years old girls, but my record is what it is.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

I don't think you can knock Fedor overall record. THe question is now his competition is not the best in the world. But for his past the man did fight the best in the world and whooped them.


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## astrallite (Mar 14, 2010)

JonCR96Z said:


> I have a perfect MMA record and have even taken on 30+ opponents at once. Granted I only fight 2 years old girls, but my record is what it is.


I'm pretty sure if 30 two year olds wanted to kill you they could.


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

astrallite said:


> I'm pretty sure if 30 two year olds wanted to kill you they could.


No chance in hell.


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## MMA-Matt (Mar 20, 2010)

JonCR96Z said:


> I have a perfect MMA record and have even taken on 30+ opponents at once. Granted I only fight 2 years old girls, but my record is what it is.


Somebody give this man a TITLE SHOT!!!


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Lesnar was obviously not speaking from any informed, first person experience in evaluating Fedor's skills. He's simply being the conservative, brown nosing company guy here. 

It's disappointing, since Brock seems to pride himself on being a loner and maverick.

It's moments like this where you realize how much he looks up to, and to a certain extent fears, Dana F'in' White.


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## suffersystem (Feb 4, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> Lesnar was obviously not speaking from any informed, first person experience in evaluating Fedor's skills. He's simply being the conservative, brown nosing company guy here.
> 
> It's disappointing, since Brock seems to pride himself on being a loner and maverick.
> 
> *It's moments like this where you realize how much he looks up to, and to a certain extent fears, Dana F'in' White*.


I actually really doubt this is why he is saying this. This is just the way brock is, and most other champion fighters, or fighters who want to be the best. What is he supposed to say? Fedor is the best in the world and I hope he stays over at M-1 so I don't have to fight him. Brock is one hell of a competitor, and if Fedor is considered the best in the world, of course I can see Brock trash talking him and trying to do things like this. I doubt fear has anything to do with this.

IMHO wether you like Brock or not, the guy loves competition, and is willing to fight anybody to prove he is the best, to himself and to the world. Will he be successful, after Shane we will see, but I can't count Shane out of this fight because the guy has some KO power up the wazoo! Either way, this shouldn't come to shock anybody, and if Brock does defeat Carwin saturday, be prepared for him to turn his eyes to whomever is next on the totem pole. The guy, IMO again, will take on whomever is next, without a doubt. I have to give him that! I fully thought his first fight back would be against a slightly lesser opponent, just to clear out his ring rust (you know this was an option that was probably discussed), but glad to see him taking on a contender, and making abosolutely no excuses.


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## matt357 (May 26, 2010)

yeaaaaaaaaa


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

chilo said:


> his record speaks for itself.


Yeah but that's like sinfeld episode where Kramer is the best fighter in his karate dojo except the dojo is nothing but kids.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Brock is a businessman. He knows who to suck up to. Plus, he feels like he's been "rescued" in some sense by being given a shot in actual competition, a possibility denied to him by the Vikings. 

After his first UFC loss, he was in the locker room and said to Dana: "it ain't over; at least I hope it ain't" and then had an expectant look on his face.

Amazingly, he was privy to the "Joe Silva shadow hand of fury" post event cut despite this being his first fight, and made sure with the boss himself that he had a future. 

This is AFTER Dana walked into the locker room with a big smile: "dude, that was a fun ******* fight!"

The UFC is ruthless in cutting fighters, and Brock knows it. 



suffersystem said:


> I actually really doubt this is why he is saying this. This is just the way brock is, and most other champion fighters, or fighters who want to be the best. What is he supposed to say? Fedor is the best in the world and I hope he stays over at M-1 so I don't have to fight him. Brock is one hell of a competitor, and if Fedor is considered the best in the world, of course I can see Brock trash talking him and trying to do things like this. I doubt fear has anything to do with this.
> 
> IMHO wether you like Brock or not, the guy loves competition, and is willing to fight anybody to prove he is the best, to himself and to the world. Will he be successful, after Shane we will see, but I can't count Shane out of this fight because the guy has some KO power up the wazoo! Either way, this shouldn't come to shock anybody, and if Brock does defeat Carwin saturday, be prepared for him to turn his eyes to whomever is next on the totem pole. The guy, IMO again, will take on whomever is next, without a doubt. I have to give him that! I fully thought his first fight back would be against a slightly lesser opponent, just to clear out his ring rust (you know this was an option that was probably discussed), but glad to see him taking on a contender, and making abosolutely no excuses.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> Yeah but that's like sinfeld episode where Kramer is the best fighter in his karate dojo except the dojo is nothing but kids.


But did Kramer end up finally losing to one of the kids? Without that it's not quite a perfect analogy.


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

Calminian said:


> But did Kramer end up finally losing to one of the kids? Without that it's not quite a perfect analogy.


Actually the whole group kicked his ass.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Majortom505 said:


> Actually the whole group kicked his ass.


Just saw it. Too funny. 

link


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## Pretty Cool Guy (Jun 27, 2010)

Lesnar is never one to hide his feelings. He truly believes that he would beat Fedor (which I agree with) and that Fedor is trying to avoid fighting him (this is a point of contention, obviously). 

For those that say Fedor has nothing to prove- I agree and disagree. Fedor could lose his next five fights and he will still rightfully be known as the GREATEST mixed martial artist of all time. In that sense, he has nothing to prove. That said, I agree with Dana White that MMA is about finding about who the BEST in the world is. It's not clear who that is. To me, the simple eye test shows me that the top brass of the UFC has faced better competition (skill-wise), and my educated opinion is that Brock, JDS, Cain and Overeem, if given the chance to face Fedor 100 times, would win more than they lost. There's no formula to prove my theory correct or incorrect: it's simply my observation from watching each respective fighter showcase their skills. 

That's not to say that Fedor is a bad fighter, but rather a testament to how the sport has evolved so quickly. The fighters today, in my opinion, are better fighters than Fedor. In a number of years, a new wave of fighters will emerge that are even better yet. when he retired, Don Hutson was the best Wide Receiver ever, but there's no way, from watching film of him, that you could say that he's BETTER than Moss or Rice. Evolution my friends. The only difference here is that MMA has evolved quicker than any other sport we've ever seen. 

My point in saying all this is that Fedor is not immune from criticism. Just because he's 4-1 doesn't mean that Brock is not the BEST fighter in the world. All records can be used for is to indicate historical greatness, nothing else. Brock has a right to say what he wants.


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## Can.Opener (Apr 8, 2009)

Totally agree with the evolution of the sport argument...

I'd add that in todays group of monsters at heavyweight it's time to fight at your natural weight class.

A podgey 229lbs is not going to cut it against todays huge, fast and skilled heavyweights.

Brock would end his world inside the cage by wrestling, size and strength.. and probably in the first round or two.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

Can.Opener said:


> Totally agree with the evolution of the sport argument...
> 
> I'd add that in todays group of monsters at heavyweight it's time to fight at your natural weight class.
> 
> ...


Technique will win 99% of the time over size and strength, but I agree. I think Fedor would have trouble with someone the size of Brock.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...If Fedor isn't the best HW...then who is? It's not 4-1 Lesnar. Fedor has accomplished what Brock will *never* do. The only thing Lesnar does better than Fedor is run his piehole and be disrespectful of his opponents. I hope Carwin gives Brock a nasty flash KO this weekend. With Lesnar still being ill just 6 months ago and a long lay off, the last HW he would want to fight now is Carwin. Shane has been working on his footspeed with Rashad Evans & Jon Jones. Lesnar is in for a big surprise and a fight he can lose in a blink...


P.S. I'm done with this mindless thread...:thumbsdown:


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

Fedor WAS the best heavyweight. Just like Matt Hughes WAS the best welterweight...

They each had their respective times and will go down as legends for what they accomplished.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

SigFig said:


> Fedor WAS the best heavyweight. Just like Matt Hughes WAS the best welterweight...
> 
> They each had their respective times and will go down as legends for what they accomplished.


Fedor is _still_ the best HW. He lost one fight in 10 years.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

BrutalKO said:


> ...If Fedor isn't the best HW...then who is? It's not 4-1 Lesnar. Fedor has accomplished what Brock will *never* do.


Sorry to break this to you, but he's already faced and beat'n guys that are better than the fighters Fedor has faced. It's the truth. Brock is better than Fedor. True Fedor's faced more guys, but Brock in his short career and faced better guys. Just say'n.

The Matt Hughes example is perfect. Just because he reigned at one time, does not make him better that GSP now. 



UrbanBounca said:


> Fedor is _still_ the best HW.


In his own little world.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Calminian said:


> Sorry to break this to you, but he's already faced and beat'n guys that are better than the fighters Fedor has faced. It's the truth. Brock is better than Fedor. True Fedor's faced more guys, but Brock in his short career and faced better guys. Just say'n.
> 
> The Matt Hughes example is perfect. Just because he reigned at one time, does not make him better that GSP now.
> 
> ...


Hate to break the news to u but if Mir submitted Lesnar a prime Big nog would have done the same. Also pretty sure a prime Cropcop would knockout lesnar. People say cain would give lesnar trouble but a prime cropcop was the baddest striker in the game. I would say lesnar would be decent in pride.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Calminian said:


> Sorry to break this to you, but he's already faced and beat'n guys that are better than the fighters Fedor has faced. It's the truth. Brock is better than Fedor. True Fedor's faced more guys, but Brock in his short career and faced better guys. Just say'n.


Better guys? Lesnar has beat Couture, Herring, and a win/loss against Mir. LAWL at your logic.

In order to accomplish what Fedor did he still needs to beat Carwin, JDS, Cain, and every other top guy for years to come.

Again. Couture, Herring, and Mir! Much better guys than Fedor's faced! :confused03:



> The Matt Hughes example is perfect. Just because he reigned at one time, does not make him better that GSP now.


Matt Hughes dominated everyone in his time. He BEAT GSP once. Horrible example. A prime Matt Hughes vs a prime GSP would be one hell of a fight. Not to mention Matt Hughes beat everyone in his class at the time. Lesnar has not even come close to accomplishing that feat.

Logic 101 isn't your strong suite.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Calminian said:


> Sorry to break this to you, but he's already faced and beat'n guys that are better than the fighters Fedor has faced. It's the truth. Brock is better than Fedor. True Fedor's faced more guys, but Brock in his short career and faced better guys. Just say'n.
> 
> The Matt Hughes example is perfect. Just because he reigned at one time, does not make him better that GSP now.
> 
> ...


Your argument is so wrong I don't know where to start. Comparing Brock to Fedor using Hughes vs GSP as a guide? lol. Are you seriously comparing Brocks record to GSPs? Seriously?

Can I stop typing for a mo while I LOL all over my monitor?


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

The difference is Matt Hughes early in career faced a lot of nobodies yes BUT as time progressed and he gained his UFC belt his list of fights suddenly becomes completely stacked with names, Matt Hughes destroyed the who's who of WW's at his time with few breaks between the fights. Sure he lost a few but it was ALL TOP COMPETITION.

Fedor who has had 35 fights, 17 of which were against NOBODIES! Please note that I count Brett Rogers as a nobody because I was never silly enough to buy into the hype.

On top of the 17 nobodies he has also gone on to face several fighters who were nowhere near the HW weight class but still gave him good fights such as Babalu and Matt Lindland.

Now that leaves Fedor with having fought 11 real threats. Most notable of which are:

Nogueira whom he beat handily on 2 separate occasions, and went to NC with once.

And Mirko CroCop who put up a great fight, this was a fantastic win for Fedor.

All of the other top competition he faced is debatable really. Heath Herring is a name but will always be a B-level fighter. Coleman was getting old and looking worse and worse for wear by the time they fought as well. 

Then we Have Mark Hunt who was a great human punching bag with a losing record. Randleman was on the downside of his career when fighting Fedor as well. Gary Goodridge is a name but has never been close to consistent and really has no huge wins over any top competition either.

Fujita was also a mid tier fighter when they clashed. (Still is really) With no big wins to his name he didn’t have much right to be in that ring.

Semmy Schilt is a good Kick boxer but a very average MMA fighter at the end of the day considering he's lost to every fighter of note that he fought.(outside of Kondo, and Mezger)

That leaves us with Arlovski who was wiping the floor with Fedor until his glass jaw syndrome set in.

Followed by Tim "KO'd by Ray Mercer" Sylvia who hasn't looked even decent since the Vera fight where he was very sluggish.

I saved Arona for second to last because Arona while a good name has been very inconsistent yet in many people’s eyes beat Fedor in their fight. Arona IMO got screwed in that decision because of the RINGS scoring system.

Last but not least we have Werdum, who could barely muster a few wins in the UFC and looked (one of which was a questionable stoppage against Vera)

That's a lot of questionable fights there isn't it? I mean the only two fighters Fedor has win's over that truly matter are Big Nog and CroCop. 

Every other fighter has either been a nobody, a can used by PRIDE as stepping stones or for the show, or on the downside of their careers (See Arlovski, Sylvia, Coleman and Randleman.

It's easy to look at a fighter and say well his record speaks for its self, but in this case does it really?

That's ALOT of asterisks if you ask me. I used to blindly love Fedor but the more he's pushed me away with his terrible M1 tactics the more I’ve been able to look at him with a critical eye and realise, his record is nowhere near as impressive as it looks.

I know I’m going to get a lot of heat for this but it needs to be said. Fedor didn't want to be the god he's been made out to be and I’m not blaming him for fighting these guys.

These are the competition PRIDE presented to Fedor and fair game Fedor beat them all pretty handily but the level of competition is nowhere near what a fighter like Matt Hughes consistently faced in his career.

It's not Fedor's fault his persona got all blown to hell but it is his fault that he has let it go to his head and truly believes he's above guys like Lesnar, Carwin JDS and Velasquez.

If Fedor really WANTS to fight top competition he needs to come over the UFC or at least get a match-up with Overeem. I want Fedor to fight these guys because I’m a fan of the sport, not because I hate the guy. But I refuse to blindly nut-hug anymore.

It just ain't cool.

Edited because somehow I accidentally posted this twice in the same post lol.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Emericanaddict said:


> The difference is Matt Hughes early in career faced a lot of nobodies yes BUT as time progressed and he gained his UFC belt his list of fights suddenly becomes completely stacked with names, Matt Hughes destroyed the who's who of WW's at his time with few breaks between the fights. Sure he lost a few but it was ALL TOP COMPETITION.
> 
> Fedor who has had 35 fights, 17 of which were against NOBODIES! Please note that I count Brett Rogers as a nobody because I was never silly enough to buy into the hype.
> 
> ...


Nope. Disagree. If you analyse Hughes, Gsp's or any other "top" fighters record, its made up of 50% nobodies. Anderson Silvas record is drenched in nobodies but yet he doesn't get the branding Fedor is getting.


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Soojooko said:


> Nope. Disagree. If you analyse Hughes, Gsp's or any other "top" fighters record, its made up of 50% nobodies. Anderson Silvas record is drenched in nobodies but yet he doesn't get the branding Fedor is getting.


As I stated before Hughes may have alot of nobodies early on in his career once he got his belt from Carlos newton he went on a HUGE tear against almost all named and game opponents.

In fact here's the list: Newton, Sakurai, Newton, Castillo, Sean Sherk, Frank Trigg, A loss to BJ Penn, Verissimo, GSP, Frank Triff, Joe Riggs, Royce Gracie, then he avenged that loss to BJ with a TKO beating.

Thats all in one streak dude. Fedor hasn't fought anyone in a streak like that except cans. Hughes also has wins over Gono, Doerksen, Lytle and Serra. I wont count Renzo because come on that was a gimme fight for sure.

Same goes for GSP he fought some cans early on but then went on this tear of top competition.

He started off with a step up to Denny who may be a B level figher but it was GSP's first step up. Then Ptere Spratt, Parisyan, Jay Hieron, a loss to a Prime Hughes, Dave strasser, Jason miller, Frank Trigg, Sean Sherk, B.J. Penn, Avenged his loss to Hughes, got caught by Serra, beat down Koscheck, beat Hughes AGAIN, avenged his loss to Serra in dynamic fashion, DESTROYED MY BOY O FITCH, Shut down Alves, and embarassed Hardy.

How can you say their records are the same as Fedor's? Both Hughes and GSP have as of late CONSISTENTLY faced top competition. While Hughes career is coming to an end he has had only one can in Renzo Gracie lately but that was to help with tickets in Abu Dhabi. Hughes is scheduled againd Almeida now and win or lose that's a ballsy fight for a guy his age to take.

I don't have to mention Silva's record because your just being silly about that one.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Sound arguments friend. I have said myself before that if we look at quality of opponents in recent fights, GSP stands alone. He should rightfully be the worlds #1 fighter, even if I don't like it.

As for the HW's... they are all about potential at this stage. The UFC crop *look* very very impressive. Fedor has been there, done it, worn the tee-shirt and had a cup of tea with god. That's the difference between them. Fedor has been in tough tough situations. We've seen the fibre of his game. The UFC lot have been barely tested. Cain got rocked by Kongo and recovered very well, as did Carwin when getting konked by Gonzaga. Thats about it. How do we know Lesnar or JDS wont cry like babies the first time they get hurt properly? Or that any of them might be god awful on their backs? All 4 of them have spent a combined total of 4 seconds on their backs. That stat alone should be enough to stop comparing them with Fedor for the time being.

Edit.
I stand by what I said about Silva. If you look at his last 5 opponents, its not impressive. Maia. Forest. Leites. Cote. Irvine. Especially when compared to the 5 before that. Not Silvas fault hes not being tested, but it is what it is.


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

Seems to me most are arguing apples to oranges here. Some are talking about career fights, others who is the best today.
As I see it..... Fedor stands alone as the career best. Some day he will be eclipsed as all are.
Who is best today is hard to say IMO. Most of the UFC fighters are too early in their careers and in opponent strength to make a definitive choice.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

jesus christ this thread is still going!


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Brock has some nerve, the real MMA fans know that Brock is nothing but a champion by business decision made by the UFC, what a joke, lets see in 30 fights time what Brock's record stands at, am guesing this weekend he will have the exact same number of professional defeats on his record as Fedor, its a shame for him that Fedor has been going a hell of a lot longer and has proven much more during his MMA career than Brock EVER will.


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## Pretty Cool Guy (Jun 27, 2010)

> Fedor has been going a hell of a lot longer and has proven much more during his MMA career than Brock EVER will.





> ...If Fedor isn't the best HW...then who is? It's not 4-1 Lesnar. Fedor has accomplished what Brock will never do.





> Fedor is still the best HW. He lost one fight in 10 years.


For the millionth time, your record has no bearing on whether you're the BEST in the world. Was Cung Le the best in the world when he was undefeated? No, because he wasn't fighting the top brass. Anyone who objectively compared him to the top tier UFC fighters knew he would stand little chance. All you had to do was use the eye test.

Likewise, career accomplishments have no bearing on who is the BEST. Randy Couture has accomplished astronomically more than Brock Lesnar. That must mean that because he's accomplished a ton and Brock is only 4-1 that he is better...well, we all saw how that turned out when Brock used his head as a basketball. Hell, Mark Coleman has more notches in his belt. Would you honestly say that Mark in his prime would stand a chance against him or ANY top UFC HW today?

So once again, it's a logical fallacy to throw around Fedor's streak, record, or past to prove that he is the best fighter today. They mean nothing. The only way to gauge them is by watching them. So much of this argument is driven by the fact that people hate Brock as a person and revere Fedor as a legend and all-around great human being.


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Matt Hughes dominated everyone in his time. He BEAT GSP once. Horrible example. A prime Matt Hughes vs a prime GSP would be one hell of a fight. Not to mention Matt Hughes beat everyone in his class at the time. Lesnar has not even come close to accomplishing that feat.
> 
> Logic 101 isn't your strong suite.


No, no, no... the Hughes example is specific to Fedor, not Lesnar.

Consider if Hughes recognized that he had peaked several years ago and started fighting inferior opponents to maintain his aura rather than face top competition, would people have been hoodwinked into considering him a top WW to this day???

One could argue that Fedor has done such a thing in the HW division. And he's done it quite well, and maintained the loyalty of his fanatic herd.


Hughes had his time and Fedor had his time. But the game has evolved and passed them. The only difference is that one guy chose to keep fighting the best, and the other guy instead focused on protecting his legacy.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Emericanaddict said:


> The difference is Matt Hughes early in career faced a lot of nobodies yes BUT as time progressed and he gained his UFC belt his list of fights suddenly becomes completely stacked with names, Matt Hughes destroyed the who's who of WW's at his time with few breaks between the fights. Sure he lost a few but it was ALL TOP COMPETITION.
> 
> Fedor who has had 35 fights, 17 of which were against NOBODIES! Please note that I count Brett Rogers as a nobody because I was never silly enough to buy into the hype.
> 
> ...


You hit it on the head so many times I lost count.




marcthegame said:


> Hate to break the news to u but if Mir submitted Lesnar a prime Big nog would have done the same. Also pretty sure a prime Cropcop would knockout lesnar. People say cain would give lesnar trouble but a prime cropcop was the baddest striker in the game. I would say lesnar would be decent in pride.


You're forgetting that Lesnar destroyed Mir almost effortlessly. The Lesnar I'm talking about is the Lesnar of today, not yesterday. The guy is evolving fast. Who has Fedor fought that was better than Mir? And the truth is, Crocop is better today than yesterday. The problem is, competition is better. The only reason you think Crocop and Nog are worse today is because they are losing. That's circular reasoning. They're both still young, in fact they are younger than Carwin and Lesnar if I'm not mistaken. They are basically all the same age. 

I really don't know why you guys do this to Fedor. If I were him I would not want to be deified and worshipped. He was good and deserves accolades. He's not the best and hasn't been for a few years. If he comes to the UFC he's going to continue to lose. He may even continue to lose in Strikeforce. DOES NOT MEAN HE WAS NOT A GREAT FIGHTER. Let him go.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Calminian said:


> *And the truth is, Crocop is better today than yesterday.*


I hope you're joking.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

AlphaDawg said:


> I hope you're joking.


Dead serious. The truth is, the HW division of yesterday, both in Pride and the UFC was crap. I'm sorry, it's the truth. This is why Fedor had to fight so many natural LHW's and even natural MW's. This is why Couture (an natural LHW) was able to dominate the best UFC HW's. Crocop and HH and Nog (arguably Fedor's greatest accomplishments) didn't just suddenly start aging the moment they walked in the octagon. The HW division in the UFC now has its share of large natural HW athletes and they've raised the bar exponentially. To Nogueira's credit, he's uped his game. I'm impressed with him. I'm impressed with Crocop for stopping Barry. But they're no longer in the top tier. Nor is Couture, nor is Mir. Nor, my friend, is Fedor. They're not old and they're not worse, it's just that competition has overtaken them. In fact I believe that Carwin and Lesnar may be overtaken soon as well.


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## BD3 (Jun 8, 2010)

Pretty Cool Guy said:


> For the millionth time, your record has no bearing on whether you're the BEST in the world. Was Cung Le the best in the world when he was undefeated? No, because he wasn't fighting the top brass. Anyone who objectively compared him to the top tier UFC fighters knew he would stand little chance. All you had to do was use the eye test.
> 
> Likewise, career accomplishments have no bearing on who is the BEST. Randy Couture has accomplished astronomically more than Brock Lesnar. That must mean that because he's accomplished a ton and Brock is only 4-1 that he is better...well, we all saw how that turned out when Brock used his head as a basketball. Hell, Mark Coleman has more notches in his belt. Would you honestly say that Mark in his prime would stand a chance against him or ANY top UFC HW today?
> 
> So once again, it's a logical fallacy to throw around Fedor's streak, record, or past to prove that he is the best fighter today. They mean nothing. The only way to gauge them is by watching them. So much of this argument is driven by the fact that people hate Brock as a person and revere Fedor as a legend and all-around great human being.


100% agreed. Good post.


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