# So much for the PRIDE fighters!



## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

So much for pride fighters. Lots of people were talking about how pride is better than UFC and the fighters will dominate once they come in. So far Rampage has been the only successful one.


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## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

OK you at least didn't use the word "suck" and "totally overrated" so I'll try to analyze this matter seriously...

a LOT of Pride fighters don't seem to have the following:

1 Modern and innovative Randy - like training regimens

2 Gameplans

and both are necessary in da Cage.

I can see Page continue to rock but I'm really looking forward to Wandy; wanna see how he fares. With Coutures help he could be the best again IMO.


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## latedog2008 (Jan 19, 2007)

Anderson Silva, you tool.


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## LiverShot (Aug 4, 2007)

latedog2008 said:


> Anderson Silva, you tool.


Seriously. Two pride fighters, and not even the best pride fighters, came in and took the title after only one fight from two of the best UFC fighters. I'm not saying Pride is better then UFC, or vice versa, but 2 Pride guys absolutely dominated, and two began losing when they came to the UFC. And Pride's 2 top fighters, Fedor and Wanderlei, still have to get a chance to make their mark in the UFC.


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## irondentist (Sep 23, 2007)

3. Steroids
4. No Comission oversight
5. Yakuza control

Pride is over rated and good riddance to fanbois.


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

latedog2008 said:


> Anderson Silva, you tool.


If you're going to act like a complete douchebag, at least get your information correct. Anderson Silva is no more a "Pride fighter" than Chuck Liddell. Out of approximately 25-26 fights, Anderson had 5 in Pride. Anderson had four fights between his last fight in Pride (Which was a sporadic one and done kinda deal) and almost two years. It had been well over three years since he was a strict Pride fighter, where he only fought four fights before leaving. Apparently if you take a few fights in Pride, you're officially and forever branded a "Pride fighter." 

More on topic, yes, it has been incredibly surprising at how poorly the Pride fighters have done in the UFC. Marcus Aurelio got tooled by Clay Guida, Herring lost to O'Brian, Crocop lost twice, and Nog barely scraped by with his first win. On the other hand, Rampage has looked great and Dan Henderson had a very impressive first fight, so you really don't want to discredit an entire organization over a few fighters.


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## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

You can't sit there and tell me chute box isn't the best camp in the world.... As Joe Rogen put it, when Pride fighters step into the Octo it is hard for them to adjust being training in a ring their whole life. Yes that is no excuse, but they talk about angles and ways to move in an attack. If you watch a lot of Pride fighters, they chase their opponent around the Octo, and then make it very predictable because they are just chasing their opponent in the same way around the octo time and time again. So yes they should train for that, but that's not what they WERE training for, just wait give them a few more fights and they will be up there with Rampage and The Spider.

GOOD FIGHT FORREST!!! He has grown like crazy training with Couture, great shape, level headed and he kept the pace on HUGE, which was very unexpected.

And Japanese fighters have a chin of steel, I have seen them fight, and I can't remember any Japanese fighter who doesn't get beat up for 20 (pride rules) minutes and it goes to a decision, that's how the Japanese are, so please don't BOO them because these fighters have a chin of steel.


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## khell (Oct 16, 2006)

i was very surprised at shoguns game plan. where was the thai clinch and knees? i mean thats what he destroys people with. i really dont get it. its like hes turned into a juijitsu fighter. i also think alot of pride fighters are used to being able to chase fighters down in the ring ,where there is no room to really move away. the octogon gives people alot more room to move around and play angles etc. and pride fighters are not doing to well with that. but give em time, i bet these guys will get better and better at the adjustment.


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## Suvaco (Mar 31, 2007)

daman5 said:


> You can't sit there and tell me chute box isn't the best camp in the world....


I'd rather train with Team Quest or Xtreme Couture.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

joppp said:


> OK you at least didn't use the word "suck" and "totally overrated" so I'll try to analyze this matter seriously...
> a LOT of Pride fighters don't seem to have the following:
> 1 Modern and innovative Randy - like training regimens
> 2 Gameplans
> ...


Good points. Repped. Much better than the "Anderson Silva, you tool" guy.
Maybe Shogun should follow Wanderlei over to Randy's camp. The Natural's doing one hell of a job with his boys.


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## Ulio (May 31, 2007)

Ya i think the room in octogone is not smaller but you need use both of your angles to confuse your oppenent and move better.
- Henderson has already fought in a cage so ya he kinda knew how to use it thats why he was pretty great in his fight vs quinton.

-Silva already fought in cage i say he will have less trouble too.


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## Josh3239 (Mar 4, 2007)

Don't forget Wanderlei Silva had 3 fights in the octagon and Anderson Silva did some time in KOTC as did Rampage. There are probably some other pride fighters that did some of the smaller shows that used a cage.


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## purple_haze (Oct 24, 2006)

after seeing both chuck and his fellow chute box mate shogun lose, i think wandy will prepare for his upcoming debut with much more vigor than the previous two. If he goes into a training camp with rampage or randy i can see him pull off a a win. If he is just gonna stick with his chute-box style and no advanced planning, he will probably lose like every other pride fighter who didn't take their fights seriously. I firmly believe if shogun has adequately prepared he would've whomped on forrest, but all he was doing was nuthugging forrest as he was trying to take him down. I didn't see his crazy as roundhouse kicks or stand-up dominance im so used to seeing, but an easily gassed shogun which blew by me with a strange feeling of wtf.


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## SHIN2DADOME (Nov 20, 2006)

Josh3239 said:


> Don't forget Wanderlei Silva had 3 fights in the octagon and Anderson Silva did some time in KOTC as did Rampage. There are probably some other pride fighters that did some of the smaller shows that used a cage.


Shogun also fought in a cage in his early days. A good example is his fight with babalu back in the day when babalu choked him out. Lets just not forget Fedor still has to come to the octagon and I dont see him not training hard enough or not training with a cage for his fight. I just cant wait to see Fedors ground and pound when his opponents heads stuck in the cage and has nowhere to go. I'm smiling just thinking about it.


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## PrideFan123 (Apr 8, 2007)

Tired of the Pride hate, Pride has had 2 guys (CroCop, Shogun) lose and now "so much for Pride fighters"... what about Rampage? What about Henderson who hasn't even fought middle weight yet? What about Big Nog who won his first fight in the UFC? Anderson Silva? We haven't even seen Wandy yet.... 

Pride fighters really haven't even had time to make their mark. Writing off all pride fighters because of two guys poor performances is dumb. We'll see what the future holds.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Shogun's biggest problem was conditioning. When he started to gas, he started losing the standup exchanges and going for those bad single legs.
Cardio work is what he needs. Same goes for Nakamura.


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## Uchi (Oct 15, 2006)

Its wierd tho, he can fight for 10 min straight, and with a 1min break in between he gassed even earlier. around 7 min mark.

I honestly don't think he trained all too much. He had like a freaking Wedding a lifetime experience, which leads me to believe that he didn't prepare or for this fight as much as he did for the Grand Prix as much as he should've, instead barely meeting avg fitness levels..


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Uchi said:


> Its wierd tho, he can fight for 10 min straight, and with a 1min break in between he gassed even earlier. around 7 min mark.
> 
> I honestly don't think he trained all too much. He had like a freaking Wedding a lifetime experience, which leads me to believe that he didn't prepare or for this fight as much as he did for the Grand Prix as much as he should've, instead barely meeting avg fitness levels..


I imagine you're right. He didn't look as toned as he did then, either, did he?

Not to dismiss what Forrest did, but I'm telling you, Shogun + good cardio = a different result last night.


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## SHIN2DADOME (Nov 20, 2006)

vandalian said:


> I imagine you're right. He didn't look as toned as he did then, either, did he?
> 
> Not to dismiss what Forrest did, but I'm telling you, Shogun + good cardio = a different result last night.


I agree 100% You cant take nothing away from Forrest at all but it really looked liked Shogun wasnt in that good of shape and it showed. Thats not an excuse tho because thats the name of the game Forrest came prepared and Shogun didnt. Props to Forrest but ya like you said Shogun + good cardio = a different result and IMO a future LHW title.


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## illmatic (Sep 23, 2007)

I don't know how to say it better than, IMO, UFC fans underrate Pride fighters and Pride fans overrate Pride Fighters.

The end result is going to be a good mix of both dissapointing and impressive fights from the Pride fighters.

The UFC is simply too packed for there to be any unbeatable elite level champs for too long as per the older days of UFC and Pride. Look at the light heavyweight division, Chuck use to rule this class. Now it's like a giant game of rock, paper, scissors, with everyone beating some and then destroyed by others. You can't say the paper is a shitty fighter just because he got matched up with the scissor.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Good point.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

SHUT THE **** UP
ya


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> SHUT THE **** UP
> ya


What the hell? This was actually a pretty good discussion for a while there...


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

I have always said I am a MMA fan not a PRIDE or UFC fan. I will admit I like watcing ufc more because I enjoy watching ground fighting and I hated the reff haveing to center them every time they hit the ropes or in other words I prefer the cage. but I never talked down the fighters. 

so I am just stateing fact and what I have seen in the past fights.

In conclution I say the pride fighters are gassing because they are not as use to the ground game and that takes more energy than one might think. pride fights had alot more standup and alot less ground game. For example after gonzoga beat up mirko on the ground Mirco was gassed and beat and had his hands down. So even the ko was a high kick the ground game is what beat him.

once the adapt they will become better fighters but right now they are not as good. The sad thin is that for the older pride fighters they may not have the time to adapt.

and lets pleass reframe form pointless outbrakes and insults.


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## Uchi (Oct 15, 2006)

americanfighter said:


> I have always said I am a MMA fan not a PRIDE or UFC fan. I will admit I like watcing ufc more because I enjoy watching ground fighting and I hated the reff haveing to center them every time they hit the ropes or in other words I prefer the cage. but I never talked down the fighters.
> 
> so I am just stateing fact and what I have seen in the past fights.
> 
> ...


after the elbows, cro cop's vision was blurry, not really gassed. He's taken worse beatings before, and said to have misjudged it and thought it was going for a body kick. SO he wasn't really gassed..well thats what he says anyways


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

americanfighter said:


> I have always said I am a MMA fan not a PRIDE or UFC fan. I will admit I like watcing ufc more because I enjoy watching ground fighting and I hated the reff haveing to center them every time they hit the ropes or in other words I prefer the cage. but I never talked down the fighters.
> 
> so I am just stateing fact and what I have seen in the past fights.
> 
> ...


I agree where you say you're an MMA fan, not a UFC or Pride fan. Personally, I prefer the fighters in the UFC as they were what I was first exposed to, but I far and away prefer the ring to the cage. The cage is annoying to see through, and I'm not a huge fan of guys getting smashed into the fence. As Fitch mentioned in his post fight, you can get mashed into the cage and it can seriously hinder your technique. I'd prefer watching them get centered for groundfighting, and have the smaller space and corners for standup.


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## Zender (Dec 15, 2006)

purple_haze said:


> after seeing both chuck and his fellow chute box mate shogun lose, i think wandy will prepare for his upcoming debut with much more vigor than the previous two. If he goes into a training camp with rampage or randy i can see him pull off a a win. If he is just gonna stick with his chute-box style and no advanced planning, he will probably lose like every other *pride fighter who didn't take their fights seriously.* I firmly believe if shogun has adequately prepared he would've whomped on forrest, but all he was doing was nuthugging forrest as he was trying to take him down. I didn't see his crazy as roundhouse kicks or stand-up dominance im so used to seeing, but an easily gassed shogun which blew by me with a strange feeling of wtf.


I totally agree. Most guys that have came over haven't done their homework regarding rules & cage work, and IMO (tin hat on) considered themselves in another league, hence the suspect cardio. I think the talent within the UFC, outwith ex-pride fighters, has got a shitload better over the past year or so anyway, so it's quite difficult to make a comparison.

For the guy that said only 2 fighters have lost from PRIDE, go do YOUR homework mate.


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

Zender said:


> For the guy that said only 2 fighters have lost from PRIDE, go do YOUR homework mate.


I agree with this. Just off the top of my head I know that Crocop has lost twice, Herring lost his debut fight, Shogun lost, Omigawa and Nakamura both lost, and Aurelio lost to Guida.


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## Zemelya (Sep 23, 2007)

SHIN2DADOME said:


> Shogun also fought in a cage in his early days. A good example is his fight with babalu back in the day when babalu choked him out. Lets just not forget Fedor still has to come to the octagon and I dont see him not training hard enough or not training with a cage for his fight. I just cant wait to see Fedors ground and pound when his opponents heads stuck in the cage and has nowhere to go. I'm smiling just thinking about it.


Oh yes... read interview with Fedor not a long time ago says that he does cage training and it's not a problem for him at all, also he was asked about elbows, hehe, said that he does and always did train elbows and has no problem with using them.
And as for Shogun... oh man i almost started crying, WTF was that ???? how the hell did he gas out ?


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## Tito.Ortiz (Jul 23, 2007)

Mauricio "Shogun" Rua has always been touted as THE BEST FIGHTER in his weight class on this website. Shogun has so many nut huggers it makes me sad. Forrest Griffin easily would have taken ALL 3 rounds of the fight had it gone to a decision. But he caught Shogun (overrated noob-sauce fighter) in a choke with a mere 15seconds left in the round and he tapped! He tapped like a little girl with 15 seconds!


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## Cartheron (Sep 5, 2007)

Tito.Ortiz said:


> But he caught Shogun (overrated noob-sauce fighter) in a choke with a mere 15seconds left in the round and he tapped! He tapped like a little girl with 15 seconds!


Better tapping than potential brain damage. You ever been caught in a tight rear naked choke? You can be unconcious in a few seconds. Plus then factor in fighting for nearly fifteen minutes beforehand.


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## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

vandalian said:


> Shogun's biggest problem was conditioning. When he started to gas, he started losing the standup exchanges and going for those bad single legs.
> Cardio work is what he needs. Same goes for Nakamura.


I agree, the thing is he is known for his cardio. Dont go to sleep on Shogun yet guys. He will get his cardio and train harder for the next one. One fight is not a career ender for the young brazilian and I still think that he will be champ someday. He just got married. Give him one more chance guys and I doubt he will disappoint


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

kamikaze145 said:


> I agree, the thing is he is known for his cardio. Dont go to sleep on Shogun yet guys. He will get his cardio and train harder for the next one. One fight is not a career ender for the young brazilian.


Of course not. Hell, I'm such a sucker I can't even bring myself to write Vitor off, so how could I rip on Shogun?


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## cabby (Sep 15, 2006)

kamikaze145 said:


> I agree, the thing is he is known for his cardio. Dont go to sleep on Shogun yet guys. He will get his cardio and train harder for the next one. One fight is not a career ender for the young brazilian and I still think that he will be champ someday. He just got married. Give him one more chance guys and I doubt he will disappoint


Thats what I'm saying. I think this will wake Shogun up. He has shown better cardio in other fights. He will be prepared next time I hope.


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## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

Tito.Ortiz said:


> Mauricio "Shogun" Rua has always been touted as THE BEST FIGHTER in his weight class on this website. Shogun has so many nut huggers it makes me sad. Forrest Griffin easily would have taken ALL 3 rounds of the fight had it gone to a decision. But he caught Shogun (overrated noob-sauce fighter) in a choke with a mere 15seconds left in the round and he tapped! He tapped like a little girl with 15 seconds!


OK, I am not one to make excuses but come on. You are seriosuly saying that Shogun is a girl from tapping...He was gassed and out of breath, beat up, and then you expect him to withstand a choke for 15 seconds??? You sir, are an idiot.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

Tito.Ortiz said:


> Mauricio "Shogun" Rua has always been touted as THE BEST FIGHTER in his weight class on this website. Shogun has so many nut huggers it makes me sad. Forrest Griffin easily would have taken ALL 3 rounds of the fight had it gone to a decision. But he caught Shogun (overrated noob-sauce fighter) in a choke with a mere 15seconds left in the round and he tapped! He tapped like a little girl with 15 seconds!


It's getting very hard to respond to this kind of idiocy seriously. 
For one, you said noon-sauce and then you say tapping with 15 seconds left makes his a little girl?
Maybe you should think before you write anything so you can have some credibility.


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## Tito.Ortiz (Jul 23, 2007)

Dont mis-quote me GMW i would never say something so lame as noon-sauce. I said NOOB-SAUCE. Noob, wow typical.

You nuthuggers just keep defending Rua tooth and nail, fact is he tapped like a little girl who didnt have the heart to finish the fight against a SUPERIOR AMERICAN


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Tito.Ortiz said:


> SUPERIOR AMERICAN


Now _this_ has nothing to do with it. Stop trying to bait people. Forrest was the better fighter Saturday night, to be sure, but his country of origin has nothing to do with it. Franklin lost to Silva, Hughes lost to St. Pierre -- fighters win fights, not countries.


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## CroCopPride (Jan 13, 2007)

pride fighters will come back 
and you ufc guys keep saying that pride sucks 
but we have 2 of ur belts and we will take a 3rd soon


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## Zender (Dec 15, 2006)

Tito.Ortiz said:


> .... NOOB-SAUCE......he tapped like a little girl.........SUPERIOR AMERICAN


 :sarcastic12:

Unless you are actually just a troll. In which case....
:bye02:


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## SHIN2DADOME (Nov 20, 2006)

CroCopPride said:


> pride fighters will come back
> and you ufc guys keep saying that pride sucks
> but we have 2 of ur belts and we will take a 3rd soon


Hahaha well put my friend well put. Im a fan of both organazations because Im an mma fan in general but yes Fedor will take the third belt for pride and if UFC ever gets there act together and starts getting some more international lightweights I think Shinya Aoki could be a serious threat for a fourth. This is kind of off topic but the only way I could see fedor losing in the UFC is getting cut by an elbow, Like Quinton said about Wanderlei he bleeds when you blow on him.


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## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

illmatic said:


> I don't know how to say it better than, IMO, UFC fans underrate Pride fighters and Pride fans overrate Pride Fighters.
> 
> The end result is going to be a good mix of both dissapointing and impressive fights from the Pride fighters.
> 
> The UFC is simply too packed for there to be any unbeatable elite level champs for too long as per the older days of UFC and Pride. Look at the light heavyweight division, Chuck use to rule this class. Now it's like a giant game of rock, paper, scissors, with everyone beating some and then destroyed by others. You can't say the paper is a shitty fighter just because he got matched up with the scissor.


I completly agree with that post and I couldnt have said it any better. I love your rock, paper, scissors analogy. +rep:thumbsup:


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## johnfromthe219 (Sep 9, 2007)

pointless thread imo enough with the pride is better than ufc and vice versa shit


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## Tito.Ortiz (Jul 23, 2007)

johnfromthe219 said:


> pointless thread imo enough with the pride is better than ufc and vice versa shit


I agree lets just end it by admitting Pride is overrated and got bought out by UFC (based in America) land of promise, and land of leet fighters.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Tito.Ortiz said:


> I agree lets just end it by admitting Pride is overrated and got bought out by UFC (based in America) land of promise, and land of leet fighters.


I'd point out the futility of cheering for _promotions_ and not _fighters_, but I'm not so sure you'd listen.
Was it wrong to assume Pride was stocked with superior talent across the board? Yes. 
Is it just as wrong to assume that UFC was? Yes.

By the way, what's a leet fighter?


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Tito.Ortiz said:


> I agree lets just end it by admitting Pride is overrated and got bought out by UFC (based in America) land of promise, and land of leet fighters.


DAMN Right!:thumb02: lol


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## Randy GNP (Nov 24, 2006)

I'm sick and tired of this argument. If anything, I learned one thing. Not that Pride FC sucks, not that UFC sucks. Not that fighters from either organization are inherently better. I learned that fighters are different. Just because Cro Crop dominated in Pride doens't mean he will in UFC. You have to see the fighters fight. The rules make a difference sure, but at the same time they don't. IF Some one is a good fighter they should be good wherever they go.

The fact is that they only way to tell which fighter is better is to have them fight eachother. I would have never guessed Forrest would dominate Shogun like that, but he did and it was no fluke.

The steroid argument might have some validity (Pride doesn't substance test) but Rampage obviously wasn't on steroids cause he looks better than ever. I'm not insulting the Pride fighters. IF they did take steroids it lead to exciting and competetive fights, and they would almost be stupid not to if everyone else was.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

For god's sake, it's about fighters, not promotions! Wake up, people!


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

Fanboyism has no place in MMA, seriously, if you love UFC go beat it to your Chuck Liddel posters. If you love PRIDE go wank off to Yoshida.

You people arent about MMA, your just making fools of yourself with this shit.


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## j.farrell (Oct 6, 2006)

americanfighter said:


> So much for pride fighters. Lots of people were talking about how pride is better than UFC and the fighters will dominate once they come in. So far Rampage has been the only successful one.


Here my take on it. I have been talkiing about this alot lately. The fighters that did compete in Pride and came over here and did well Ramapge and Anderson also didnt take a year off from fighting. Alot of these guys had a long lay off. They might have been training this whole time, but you dont train the same as you do when you are training for a fight. When you are just training and things come up, you might take a couple days off, or skip practice once or twice. You dont push yourself as hard. Where as when you are training for a fight, and something comes up, you are like well that sucks but I have a fight coming up so I gotta deal with that later. When you are fighting regularly, you are building off what you did that last time. You should barring injuries continue to improve physically. I think with time these guys will get into a rythem again and get back to be great fighters.


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## khell (Oct 16, 2006)

i think another thing to consider is ufc fighters are much better than they used to be.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

khell said:


> i think another thing to consider is ufc fighters are much better than they used to be.


That's probably true but for whatever reason we can't use that. Some UFC fans said we can't say Wanderlei has improved since his ortiz fight so I assume the UFC guys can't improve either.


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## GeGGosbg (Apr 22, 2007)

I see this as a change of envoirment.

As an example, the sport football (you americans call it Soccer). 

There are alot of examples of people who are outstanding in let's say the Italian league, and then move to England and can't seem to do a single thing right, because in England they play different, the envoirment, the referees, everything has another "tone" to it. 


Sometimes it can be the same only with a change of teams, because that team has another tactic, so the player don't seem to get right.

In most of the cases it takes around 1~~ season for a GOOD player to adapt to the new system, "rules", envoirment and gameplay. 


I see it as the same in MMA, the UFC fighter and the Pride fighter (imo) have different fight styles, the referees and judges act different, the rules are different, that's why you could see "poster boys" from UFC going to Pride getting demolished, and vice verse.


In my opinion there is not that UFC got better fighter, neither does Pride, it's just another envoirment for the different fighters, and it takes time to adapt.


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## awf (Jan 2, 2007)

I totally agree with geggosbg! If Ufc figters came to PRIDE, they would probably get stomped an kicked..The outcome of these upsets could be very different..

It takes time to adapt, unless you are raise01: Fernando Torresraise01:


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

GeGGosbg said:


> I see this as a change of envoirment.
> 
> As an example, the sport football (you americans call it Soccer).
> 
> ...


True dat, I completely agree.

Amazing analogy


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## The Elemental Warrio (Jul 8, 2006)

irondentist said:


> 3. Steroids
> 4. No Comission oversight
> 5. Yakuza control
> 
> Pride is over rated and good riddance to fanbois.


Seriously, you nuthuggers are making both Pride and UFC seem overrated because of your dumb comments.


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