# Boxers.....bring it on!



## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...Mayweather talkin' shit...Morrison questioning Liddell's heart?...They have got to be kidding me. Gee, the only chance a Boxer has in MMA, ummmmm, is to learn awesome takedown defense, they have to know some of the principles of Jiu Jitsu, and they have to learn how to Wrestle. Easy as pie right? Give me a break! Boxers can't make the transition...watch...mark my words. Morrison calling out Liddell is so out of his league. Liddell wouldn't fight Morrison anyway cause Chuck would spatter his blood everywhere...and we wouldn't want that contaminated blood all over the place! Morrison is a joke...he needs to just get the UFC PPV's like the rest of us and just watch...lol


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## Unseen (Dec 25, 2006)

i wouldnt blame liddell if he doesnt take on Morrison, but someone needs to lay the smackdown on Mayweather. Sherk has already stepped up, all we have to wait for now is for Mayweather to sign that paper.


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## SEANV (Apr 8, 2007)

Did u hear..KErmit Cintron wants to fight the winner of Sherk and Franca.....thats gona happen for sure. Dana offered mayweather a chance to fight for the title but shit talking mayweather turned it down.


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## theboz19 (Jun 30, 2006)

Hmmm, Mayweather made 10 Million + on his fight with Oscar. What did Dana offer? 

I really don't understand the "boxer bashing" on this forum. Let's say Mayweather decides to slum it with the hillbillies and takes a fight with Sherk. He then trains for 3 months in takedown defense from the best team money can buy. He then turns Sherks face into a bloody stump. Did a boxer beat Sherk? or did a trained MMA fighter beat him? 

Don't misunderstand me. I completely and totally agree that 99% of the time that a wrestler only fights a boxer only then the wrestler wins. The point I am trying to make is that if a top level boxer decides to do MMA, he is going to do some cross-training and thus no longer be a boxer just as a wrestler who trains in striking is no longer a wrestler.


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

theboz19 said:


> Hmmm, Mayweather made 10 Million + on his fight with Oscar. What did Dana offer?
> 
> I really don't understand the "boxer bashing" on this forum. Let's say Mayweather decides to slum it with the hillbillies and takes a fight with Sherk. He then trains for 3 months in takedown defense from the best team money can buy. He then turns Sherks face into a bloody stump. Did a boxer beat Sherk? or did a trained MMA fighter beat him?
> 
> Don't misunderstand me. I completely and totally agree that 99% of the time that a wrestler only fights a boxer only then the wrestler wins. The point I am trying to make is that if a top level boxer decides to do MMA, he is going to do some cross-training and thus no longer be a boxer just as a wrestler who trains in striking is no longer a wrestler.


Income does NOT indicate intelligence, labeling MMA fighters as “hillbillies” and saying boxers who step into the octagon are “slumming it” is nothing more than lame stereotyping. If anything your average boxer when interviewed validates my opinion that a single digit IQ is enough to be a good boxer. There are plenty of MMA fighters who are educated and articulate, I can’t think of any boxers who fit those criteria.

Mayweather is nothing more than an overcompensated entertainer who would be raped if he was stupid enough to get in the ring (with even a mediocre fighter).

It’s a shame that boxing is so corrupt and bloated with corruption, it was once a great sport and art. I don’t watch anymore due to the lack of talent and class. Besides after getting into MMA I see boxing as dull at best (and I trained as a boxer in my late teens and early 20s).


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## theboz19 (Jun 30, 2006)

You are right. I was taking cheap shots at the Iowa farm boy wrestlers. It is nice that they finally have somewhere to go after their free ride to Oklahoma State is over. While Matt Hughes is busy cashing his $300k paycheck Oscar De La Hoya will be deciding whether or not he wants to purchase the UFC. 

I love MMA but I also love and respect boxing. It will be nice to see more boxers, like Butterbean, make the transition and start knocking guys out. Speaking of the Bean. He is old and never really was a great boxer but yet he has a winning record in MMA.


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## KillerG (Nov 14, 2006)

The Mayweather fight was boring, all he does is 1-2 punch and run away. THATS NOT a great fighter, he's like Tim Sylvia, he fights to win not to entertain, thats why everyone cheered for Del La Hoya.

And he wouldnt last in the UFC, he goes on like he would knock out any man. The fact is he would get his 1-2 jab out, get taken down and have his fast little arms broken.

He wont step into the octogon not because of the lower pay packet (im sure Dana offered arounf 10 or even 10 mill) but because he knows he would get destroyed. He does all this for publicity, but good for him, all it does is let boxing fans know what MMA and UFC is


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## CLG (Mar 27, 2007)

If someone wants to talk they should be prepaired to back that up. On the other hand if I was a highly ranked pro boxer I would not risk injury in mma when the money is sooo much better in boxing just my .002 

I dont think there is anyone in MMA today that could compete with the pros in their own sport not even close I could be wrong, but I dont think that I am.


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## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

theboz19 said:


> You are right. I was taking cheap shots at the Iowa farm boy wrestlers. It is nice that they finally have somewhere to go after their free ride to Oklahoma State is over. While Matt Hughes is busy cashing his $300k paycheck Oscar De La Hoya will be deciding whether or not he wants to purchase the UFC.
> 
> I love MMA but I also love and respect boxing. It will be nice to see more boxers, like Butterbean, make the transition and start knocking guys out. Speaking of the Bean. He is old and never really was a great boxer but yet he has a winning record in MMA.


First off, anyone can have a winning record in mma if they only fight people who are a great matchup for them, and he manages to blow a lot of those fights anyway. Using Butterball, I mean Butterbean to show why boxers will make good fighters is really dumb. Also, this is not "wrestlers vs boxers". These are mixed martial artists who are not bad on their feet either. Now, I do agree and think boxers CAN make good fighters. They obviously are coming in with one solid skill but I think that wrestling is the best base to have. and boxing, although very useful in MMA is not all you need to know about striking. If a boxer is a good athlete, can pick up on the rest of the game and is dedicated then yes they can become good.
On the topic of money, yes boxers make more, much more. I for one, believe this will change in the next few years. Especially, because I think a lot of boxers want to fight. When it comes down to it, boxers are fighters and when they see what MMA is all about it is only natural that they will want to test themselves in a more complete sport. I think one thing that is stopping a lot of them right now is the money, but if the money switches over to mma i think we will see a lot of boxers become mixed martial artists.


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## Deadpool (Dec 14, 2006)

CLG said:


> I dont think there is anyone in MMA today that could compete with the pros in their own sport not even close I could be wrong, but I dont think that I am.


Totally true. This goes for all sports without exception. It's like Michael Jordan saying "well i'm an amazing basketball player so i'll be an amazing baseball player". It just doesn't work that way. It's idiotic for any boxer to challenge an MMA practitioner to step into a boxing ring just as it's idiotic for any boxer to step into an MMA ring. They are speaking of two completely different sports and each has merits as well as cons. Sure they are combat sports but we're comparing apples and oranges here it doesn't matter if they are both fruits they just will never be the same.

On another note, pay does not indicate worth as clearly evident with the salaries the teachers of the world receive in comparison to our entertainers. That's a terrible argument.


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## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

Deadpool said:


> Totally true. This goes for all sports without exception. It's like Michael Jordan saying "well i'm an amazing basketball player so i'll be an amazing baseball player". It just doesn't work that way. It's idiotic for any boxer to challenge an MMA practitioner to step into a boxing ring just as it's idiotic for any boxer to step into an MMA ring. They are speaking of two completely different sports and each has merits as well as cons. Sure they are combat sports but we're comparing apples and oranges here it doesn't matter if they are both fruits they just will never be the same.
> 
> On another note, pay does not indicate worth as clearly evident with the salaries the teachers of the world receive in comparison to our entertainers. That's a terrible argument.


I agree that boxing and mma are different and the pros usually cant compete with each other but the interesting thing is that it is not boxers challenging mixed martial artists to boxing or mixed martial artists challenging boxers to MMA, it seems like boxers want to step in the cage with MMAists. That is kind of weird to me but I would love to see it, especially if there is some cross training involved


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## Deadpool (Dec 14, 2006)

kamikaze145 said:


> I agree that boxing and mma are different and the pros usually cant compete with each other but the interesting thing is that it is not boxers challenging mixed martial artists to boxing or mixed martial artists challenging boxers to MMA, it seems like boxers want to step in the cage with MMAists. That is kind of weird to me but I would love to see it, especially if there is some cross training involved


It's just the most simple route to justify their "superiority" if you can take them down in their own sport then the argument is destroyed. Such a terrible argument lol.


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## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

Deadpool said:


> It's just the most simple route to justify their "superiority" if you can take them down in their own sport then the argument is destroyed. Such a terrible argument lol.


Yea, that makes sense. I guess they wouldnt sound so hard if they challenged someone to a boxing match, lol


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

If Mayweather wants to cross over, he doesn't even need to fight someone as high a caliber as Sherk. There are a half-dozen 155 pounders I train with who could tap his ass out faster that Lauzon KO'd Pulver.

I'm not saying that to be cocky, but let's face it, he's not used to the angle that a wrestler is going to take when he changes levels, he's not used to the uninhibited aggressiveness of someone who's only goal is to take him down and he doesn't know anything about positions or submissions.

There Butterbean reference is interesting because, like you said, Bean wasn't a great boxer, but he's a good fighter. All you guys who are smashing him, shut up, he's not even really a boxer anymore. After Minowa submitted him, he started learning submissions so he could avoid getting tapped out and it's working.

De La Hoya's paycheck was impressive, but the amount of money that he got paid wasn't really deserved. He made most of that money because he's Oscar De La Hoya, not because he's a great boxer. I think De La Hoya's a great fighter, but the performance was disappointing. UFC guys get paid to make fights entertaining. If they don't, they don't come back.

I disagree with someone who thinks that any boxer is a bad matchup for Chuck, because I think that, as far as MMA goes, Chuck uses his weapons way more effectively than any boxer does and his wrestling is a lot better too.

I hope that Cintron does fight the winner of Sherk v Franca, but it will be a sad matchup for him. Sherk will TKO his in the first and Franca will Submit him in the first. You can say that he'll spend alot of time drilling his takedown defense, that's fine, but Sherk is pound for pound the best wrestler in the sport, in my opinion, and Franca is a BJJ Blackbelt with good takedowns, creative position work and heavy hands, standing and on the floor. That's a bad matchup for any boxer.


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## Geves (Oct 26, 2006)

IronMan said:


> If Mayweather wants to cross over, he doesn't even need to fight someone as high a caliber as Sherk. There are a half-dozen 155 pounders I train with who could tap his ass out faster that Lauzon KO'd Pulver.
> 
> I'm not saying that to be cocky, but let's face it, he's not used to the angle that a wrestler is going to take when he changes levels, he's not used to the uninhibited aggressiveness of someone who's only goal is to take him down and he doesn't know anything about positions or submissions.
> 
> ...


I'd have to take you up on a few of those comments bro.

The main one being De La Hoya not deserving the paycheck. Yeah he made the money because he's a HUGE name, almost household wide. De La Hoya deserves the money, i can't in recent memory remember the last time he slouched and fought a "can". Not to mention the fact that boxing by nature is a more vicious sport, by that I mean that they get punched in the head 400+ times a match, their gloves are designed so fighters get punched more. Now MMA fighters I believe deserve bigger paydays than they are getting. But half of the fight is the other fighter, you want an exciting fight? You try to match up styles... The boxing higher ups cleared this fight for the draw, not for a style/style interest. Look at Koscheck/Sanchez, great fight on the draw, not so great when it happened. THAT was a fight where Sanchez dropped the ball. De La Hoya was trying, to take away his money for a lack of a performance is bullshit. The "bad fight" is on Mayweathers hands...DLH was trying to end it.

I agree with pretty much everything else you said though. Cintron is F'd, unless he trains his ass off. I'd take any MMA fighter over him. I'm not one to say grappling is everything and a striker doesn't stand a chance. But Boxing is quite Overrated in it's striking based on it's rule set.

I hope Cintron gets put in the hospital for his lack of respect.


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## theboz19 (Jun 30, 2006)

It does generate a lot of interest. If MMA can lure some really aggressive strikers it would be great for the sport. It is probably better for us as fans that Mayweather never enter an octagon because we would buy the PPV and then be disappointed when Mayweather just runs away for 3 rounds. 

This weekend one of the guys that I box with, George Bush (yes, that's his real name) took on a Gracie trained BJJ champion by the name of Vinicius Malgahaes in the Gracie Fighting Championships (similar to UFC). George was able to keep the fight standing for the most part and won a unanimous decision. 

There seems to be a shift in MMA. Instead of the BJJ and G and P that used to own, fighters are beginning to adapt the "Iceman" style of takedown defense and striking.


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

theboz19 said:


> It does generate a lot of interest. If MMA can lure some really aggressive strikers it would be great for the sport. It is probably better for us as fans that Mayweather never enter an octagon because we would buy the PPV and then be disappointed when Mayweather just runs away for 3 rounds.
> 
> This weekend one of the guys that I box with, George Bush (yes, that's his real name) took on a Gracie trained BJJ champion by the name of Vinicius Malgahaes in the Gracie Fighting Championships (similar to UFC). George was able to keep the fight standing for the most part and won a unanimous decision.
> 
> There seems to be a shift in MMA. Instead of the BJJ and G and P that used to own, fighters are beginning to adapt the "Iceman" style of takedown defense and striking.


If I wanted my game to revolve around striking I may do some boxing to learn the fundamentals but I recommend Muay Thai to learn how to be an EFECTIVE striker (making the strikes count towards doing real damage). Boxing alone does not translate well into MMA (IMHO).


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## capt_america (Apr 16, 2007)

if theres one boxer i love to be in the MMA , it would be PACMAN.. if he can learn some takedown defense and JJ..maybe hell do better in MMA.. but i think hes too small..


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## the real hitman (Nov 24, 2006)

lol if mayweather was losing really badely i bet big john mcaurthy would stop it late


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## capt_america (Apr 16, 2007)

big john will enjoy seing sherk or any MMA guys beating floyds ass..lol :laugh:


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...I did over look the Boxing aspect involved with MMA. We have seen what it can do, and how many MMA fighters have boxing trainers? Probably all of them. Obviously the stand-up would favor the Boxer. Bottom line is Boxing & Martial Arts are different. It's comparing apples to oranges. There is quite a difference between an Arm Triangle and a left hook.


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

BrutalKO said:


> ...I did over look the Boxing aspect involved with MMA. We have seen what it can do, and how many MMA fighters have boxing trainers? Probably all of them. Obviously the stand-up would favor the Boxer. Bottom line is Boxing & Martial Arts are different. It's comparing apples to oranges. There is quite a difference between an Arm Triangle and a left hook.


Why does everyone think that a boxer has better striking than an MMA fighter? Boxing is just ONE version of striking and not a very effective one at that (used primarily for scoring points with heavy gloves, no below the belt movement). Anyone with decent Muay Thai training would MURDER a good boxer in the ring. Striking does not end with throwing punches, boxing is good for learning good foot movement and punching combinations (fundamentals) but once you throw in leg licks, knees, use the clinch, throw elbows, etc a boxer would be completely outclassed.


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## AdRath (Nov 16, 2006)

ESPADA9 said:


> Striking does not end with throwing punches, boxing is good for learning good foot movement and punching combinations (fundamentals) but once you throw in leg licks, knees, use the clinch, throw elbows, etc a boxer would be completely outclassed.


:thumbsup: I agree. Boxers can take lots of big glove shots cause they only have to keep their hands up. Throw in legs kicks to their exposed legs and you will see those hands drop and the fancy foot work will get slower. I'd put money on an equally skilled Thai boxer any day of the week.


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## taiwnezboi (Apr 8, 2007)

AdRath said:


> :thumbsup: I agree. Boxers can take lots of big glove shots cause they only have to keep their hands up. Throw in legs kicks to their exposed legs and you will see those hands drop and the fancy foot work will get slower. I'd put money on an equally skilled Thai boxer any day of the week.


Boxers plant their feet. Not good when you get hit by a leg kick. I've heard of boxers getting their legs broken from Thai kicks b/c of how they plant their feet.


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## jehu pitchfork (Feb 4, 2007)

Deadpool said:


> Totally true. This goes for all sports without exception. It's like Michael Jordan saying "well i'm an amazing basketball player so i'll be an amazing baseball player". It just doesn't work that way. It's idiotic for any boxer to challenge an MMA practitioner to step into a boxing ring just as it's idiotic for any boxer to step into an MMA ring. They are speaking of two completely different sports and each has merits as well as cons. Sure they are combat sports but we're comparing apples and oranges here it doesn't matter if they are both fruits they just will never be the same.
> 
> On another note, pay does not indicate worth as clearly evident with the salaries the teachers of the world receive in comparison to our entertainers. That's a terrible argument.


everyone else can stop posting now.

well stated Deadpool.


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## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

Deadpool said:


> Totally true. This goes for all sports without exception. It's like Michael Jordan saying "well i'm an amazing basketball player so i'll be an amazing baseball player". It just doesn't work that way. It's idiotic for any boxer to challenge an MMA practitioner to step into a boxing ring just as it's idiotic for any boxer to step into an MMA ring. They are speaking of two completely different sports and each has merits as well as cons. Sure they are combat sports but we're comparing apples and oranges here it doesn't matter if they are both fruits they just will never be the same.
> 
> On another note, pay does not indicate worth as clearly evident with the salaries the teachers of the world receive in comparison to our entertainers. That's a terrible argument.


Nicely put... but I would like to see mayweather have his ass beat


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## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

BrutalKO said:


> ...I did over look the Boxing aspect involved with MMA. We have seen what it can do, and how many MMA fighters have boxing trainers? Probably all of them. Obviously the stand-up would favor the Boxer. Bottom line is Boxing & Martial Arts are different. It's comparing apples to oranges. There is quite a difference between an Arm Triangle and a left hook.


very true, but they are both styles of fighting, and in that right they can be compared though they are different. They are different styles of combat sports, not completely different sports all together. Putting a baseball player in a basketball court is one thing, but a boxer who is a fighter, in a ring with mma who is a fighter is not entirely different, though they are different styles. Remember how ufc started in the first place, a lot of different styles taking each other on. Grapplers fighting strikers, which are different styles, and were compared in the ring.


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## dutch sauce (Sep 24, 2006)

sherk vs mayweather wow.


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

ESPADA9 said:


> If I wanted my game to revolve around striking I may do some boxing to learn the fundamentals but I recommend Muay Thai to learn how to be an EFECTIVE striker (making the strikes count towards doing real damage). Boxing alone does not translate well into MMA (IMHO).


What about Forrest Griffin????


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## Beelzebubba (Jun 27, 2007)

_"May-who?"_

That's what people will be saying about him when all is said and done. boxing isn't dieing it's dead and that last over hyped boring slap fest between Oscar and Mayweather was the death blow.

The only reason boxers are talking shit about MMA is because it's the only way for them to get on any attention.


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## leviticus (May 27, 2007)

This whole conversation is like comparing apples to oranges. Or asking who has more teeth, Rugby players or Hockey players. If we stick to weight classes a top tier boxer will school any mma fighter in a pure boxing match. The tehnical precision required to perform in boxing is something that a multidisciplined mma fighter can't get close to. An mma fighter has to worry about strikes, the clinch, the ground game, submissions, etc. In a boxing match, a world class boxer like Merriweather would run a clinic on any mma fighter at the same weight. On the flip side, if a boxer can excel at their craft, it is a completely different story in the octogon. Do they have "a punchers chance?" Clearly. But they are also going to be exposed a fight where stick and move, jab set ups, and combinations are less effective? Clearly. I started out with 10 years as a boxer. When I made the transition to mma, people I could clean in my sleep (boxing) introduce me to new realms of whoopass. Apples and oranges folks. Apples and oranges


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

Nice posts everybody. Intelligent thoughts. Well, a Boxer and an MMA fighter are apples to oranges. Mayweather has never been tagged flush by a 4oz glove, ate several hard flush knees to the face, or got choked to sleep. Let's say a fantasy match between Sherk & Mayweather happened. At Boxing..just stand up, Mayweather would out Box Sean without question. Mayweather doing an MMA fight against Sean...Mayweather wouldn't make it past the 1st round. Sherk would take him down and drop bombs & elbows...It would be ugly...


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...again...If you put a Muay Thai fighter in with a pro Boxer..The Muay Thai fighter would be outboxed quickly then KO'd. Put a Boxer in a Muay Thai fight the Boxer would be KO'd in the first round. Point & case...almost every MMA fighter has a Boxing coach...why?...To improve in their stand-up striking. Liddell got KO after KO...with just 2 hands.


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## Z-man-mma-fan (Mar 4, 2007)

BrutalKO said:


> ...again...If you put a Muay Thai fighter in with a pro Boxer..The Muay Thai fighter would be outboxed quickly then KO'd. Put a Boxer in a Muay Thai fight the Boxer would be KO'd in the first round. Point & case...almost every MMA fighter has a Boxing coach...why?...To improve in their stand-up striking. Liddell got KO after KO...with just 2 hands.


on the contrary, what ive head from muay thai guys is that a boxer vs a muay thai artist, assuming equality, the boxer has a greater chance of winning. just a bad matchup, one guy stays away from range and dose huge damage from there, another has to get close in. this is very hard to do on an agile boxer.


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## taiwnezboi (Apr 8, 2007)

Z-man-mma-fan said:


> on the contrary, what ive head from muay thai guys is that a boxer vs a muay thai artist, assuming equality, the boxer has a greater chance of winning. just a bad matchup, one guy stays away from range and dose huge damage from there, another has to get close in. this is very hard to do on an agile boxer.


are you saying that Muay Thai guys have to get close in to do damage? legs are longer than arms...


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## KO Power (Apr 5, 2007)

Here is a vide of a boxer vs. muay thai. Just thought this video might help clear up some things here. YouTube - Boxing vs Muay Thai


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## Duffman (Mar 30, 2007)

the real hitman said:


> lol if mayweather was losing really badely i bet big john mcaurthy would stop it late


I HOPE HE WOULD DO THAT....F--- MAYWEATHER


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

1. They're two completely different sports.

2. Mayweather's a tool who talks shit to try and get people to watch his fights.

3. Morrison is an even bigger tool. He couldn't even use MMA rules for his first MMA fight.

4. Din Thomas' boxing coach, who is a boxer himself, said he truly believes Din could beat Kermit Cintron standing.

5. Boxers are trying to cash in on MMA's popularity by ripping on it.

6. Yosuke Nishijima was a WBO champion. In MMA, he sucks.

7. They're two completely different sports.

I really don't care is we see boxing vs. MMA fights. In fact, the more i think about it the less I want to.


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## new2ufc (Jul 15, 2007)

*This whole conversation is like comparing apples to oranges. Or asking who has more teeth, Rugby players or Hockey players. If we stick to weight classes a top tier boxer will school any mma fighter in a pure boxing match. The tehnical precision required to perform in boxing is something that a multidisciplined mma fighter can't get close to. An mma fighter has to worry about strikes, the clinch, the ground game, submissions, etc. In a boxing match, a world class boxer like Merriweather would run a clinic on any mma fighter at the same weight. On the flip side, if a boxer can excel at their craft, it is a completely different story in the octogon. Do they have "a punchers chance?" Clearly. But they are also going to be exposed a fight where stick and move, jab set ups, and combinations are less effective? Clearly. I started out with 10 years as a boxer. When I made the transition to mma, people I could clean in my sleep (boxing) introduce me to new realms of whoopass. Apples and oranges folks. Apples and oranges. Leviticus*


That is an awesome post. 

I'm new to MMA but 1 thing I can tell you already,having seen thousands of boxing fights is that NONE of the guys I have seen from MMA(mainly UFC and a few others) can punch for shit and that is how the fight usualy starts.

Their technique is so poor so right from the off,the boxer has the upper hand. They are trained to punch and punch well. Obviously the danger for a boxer would be when he is taken down BUT someone as fast as Mayweather would NOT get taken down easily. He is the perfect hit and not get hit type fighter,if someone can trap him on the ropes,throw 15 plus punches and miss them all,I find it hard to imagine him letting someone get close enough to take him down.

I'd like to add that boxers with one punch KO power with gloves on would be dangerous too.


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## KO Power (Apr 5, 2007)

new2ufc said:


> *This whole conversation is like comparing apples to oranges. Or asking who has more teeth, Rugby players or Hockey players. If we stick to weight classes a top tier boxer will school any mma fighter in a pure boxing match. The tehnical precision required to perform in boxing is something that a multidisciplined mma fighter can't get close to. An mma fighter has to worry about strikes, the clinch, the ground game, submissions, etc. In a boxing match, a world class boxer like Merriweather would run a clinic on any mma fighter at the same weight. On the flip side, if a boxer can excel at their craft, it is a completely different story in the octogon. Do they have "a punchers chance?" Clearly. But they are also going to be exposed a fight where stick and move, jab set ups, and combinations are less effective? Clearly. I started out with 10 years as a boxer. When I made the transition to mma, people I could clean in my sleep (boxing) introduce me to new realms of whoopass. Apples and oranges folks. Apples and oranges. Leviticus*
> 
> 
> That is an awesome post.
> ...


Well your name says it all, your new to this sport and dont understand how easy it is for a boxer to get taken down. You dont think that mayweather ever clinched in his last fight, or has ever clinched before. It is bound to happen. He cant just try to circle all the time and not get caught up in an exchange. And he doesnt have that one punch KO Power to ko anybody just like that, mayweather wouldnt last one minute in an mma fight, and a pure mma fighter wouldnt last much in a pure boxing fight. But it is very clear that you are biased towards boxing.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

new2ufc said:


> I'm new to MMA but 1 thing I can tell you already,having seen thousands of boxing fights is that NONE of the guys I have seen from MMA(mainly UFC and a few others) can punch for shit and that is how the fight usualy starts.
> 
> Their technique is so poor so right from the off,the boxer has the upper hand. They are trained to punch and punch well. Obviously the danger for a boxer would be when he is taken down BUT someone as fast as Mayweather would NOT get taken down easily. He is the perfect hit and not get hit type fighter,if someone can trap him on the ropes,throw 15 plus punches and miss them all,I find it hard to imagine him letting someone get close enough to take him down.
> 
> I'd like to add that boxers with one punch KO power with gloves on would be dangerous too.


Obviously, your new, so I'll be gentle.

None of the guys you have seen in MMA punch for sh*t? What about:

Fedor Emelianenko
Mirko "CroCop" Filipovic
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
Mark Hunt
Andrei Arlovski
Tim Sylvia (in his younger days)
Aleks Emelianenko
Sergei Kharitonov
Igor Vovchanchyn
Randy Couture
Chuck Liddell
Mauricio "Shogun" Rua
Wanderlei Silva
Quinton "Rampage" Jackson
Rich Franklin
Anderson Silva
Denis Kang
Georges St. Pierre
BJ Penn
Takanori Gomi
Joachim Hansen
Hayato Sakurai

That's just off the top of my head. A handful of those guys are, or were, professional boxers. If you don't think they can punch, you obviously have no idea what a punch looks like.

You see, the difference between these guys and boxers is that they can do other things. Bas Rutten even proved that a boxing stance was useless in MMA (and, thus, a streetfight) when he had Duane Ludwig pound on Jens Pulver's more traditional boxing style.

Boxers have come over, but they rarely make it up the top ranks. If you want to know what I mean watch PRIDE's *Butterbean v Ikuhisa Minowa*. You have to know submissions and wrestling, and that's not just something you can pick up over night. It's much easier for a wrestler (who can control the pace of the fight and where it goes) to transition to MMA than a boxer, because a wrestler has much more applicable skills in MMA.

Even if you're a boxer in MMA, you can't win a fight with just boxing. There's more than just hands in boxing. You have to deal with the added dimensions of leg-kicks and clinches that your opponent can hit you in, in addition to the constant threat of being taken down.

I've been saying this for a long time:

Show me a boxer who can take leg-kicks from Mirko CroCop...

Show me a boxer who can hurt Mark Hunt standing up...

Show me a boxer who can avoid a takedown from Mark Coleman...

Show me a boxer who can defend a submission from Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira...

Show me a boxer who can get off of his back with Fedor Emelianenko pounding his face in...

... and that guy'll be great in MMA. He, however, has not shown up and does not, in the real world, exist.


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## zackali (May 23, 2007)

ESPADA9 said:


> Income does NOT indicate intelligence, labeling MMA fighters as “hillbillies” and saying boxers who step into the octagon are “slumming it” is nothing more than lame stereotyping. If anything your average boxer when interviewed validates my opinion that a single digit IQ is enough to be a good boxer. There are plenty of MMA fighters who are educated and articulate, I can’t think of any boxers who fit those criteria.
> 
> Mayweather is nothing more than an overcompensated entertainer who would be raped if he was stupid enough to get in the ring (with even a mediocre fighter).
> 
> It’s a shame that boxing is so corrupt and bloated with corruption, it was once a great sport and art. I don’t watch anymore due to the lack of talent and class. Besides after getting into MMA I see boxing as dull at best (and I trained as a boxer in my late teens and early 20s).


klitchko brothers are both doctors, so just to answer your question and name any educated boxers, so there you have it


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

new2ufc said:


> I'm new to MMA but 1 thing I can tell you already,having seen thousands of boxing fights is that NONE of the guys I have seen from MMA(mainly UFC and a few others) can punch for shit and that is how the fight usualy starts.
> Their technique is so poor so right from the off,the boxer has the upper hand. They are trained to punch and punch well. Obviously the danger for a boxer would be when he is taken down BUT someone as fast as Mayweather would NOT get taken down easily. He is the perfect hit and not get hit type fighter,if someone can trap him on the ropes,throw 15 plus punches and miss them all,I find it hard to imagine him letting someone get close enough to take him down.
> I'd like to add that boxers with one punch KO power with gloves on would be dangerous too.


Well, if he's trapped on the ropes, or the fence, or whatever, they sure as hell will get the chance to take him down.

Anyway, comparing a boxer's technique to MMA fighter's technique is a ridiculous exercise. You can't strike in MMA the way you do in boxing. I know you're new to MMA, but I would think you would have noticed this by now.


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## Jushiness (Aug 1, 2007)

theboz19 said:


> You are right. I was taking cheap shots at the Iowa farm boy wrestlers. It is nice that they finally have somewhere to go after their free ride to Oklahoma State is over. While Matt Hughes is busy cashing his $300k paycheck Oscar De La Hoya will be deciding whether or not he wants to purchase the UFC.


Matt Hughes would whoop Oscars ass.. money doesnt mean anything. how does that factor into this at all?


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Jushiness said:


> Matt Hughes would whoop Oscars ass.. money doesnt mean anything. how does that factor into this at all?


The payout comparison if one of the few arguments boxing purists have left as they try to think of ways to dismiss MMA. Smacks of desperation, I say.
The money comparison doesn't make any sense now, and I hope it never does. That's been boxing's problem for years, putting money ahead of competition instead of pursuing a balance between the two. I, for one, hope MMA fighters never make what boxers do.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Everyone seems to be missing the point here, so I'll repeat myself.



> None of the guys you have seen in MMA punch for sh*t? What about:
> 
> Fedor Emelianenko
> Mirko "CroCop" Filipovic
> ...


As for Oscar De La Hoya, he's saavy in the negotiating room and I respect his business smarts. He can laugh me all the way to the bank on that one and I'll be okay with that, but Oscar De La Hoya isn't a real fighter.

Let's face it, anyone who has a clause in their contract where they get to pick the color of their opponents shorts isn't in it for the fight.

Besides, if you put De La Hoya on the street against a guy like Hansen or Aurelio or Sherk (much less someone as massive and stong as Matt Hughes), he'd be absolutely destroyed.

I'll say this again (I just posted it on some rediculous thread about Chuck Liddell's striking), boxing is a sport, but it does not simulate a real fight. MMA doesn't do that perfectly either, because it has to adhere to certain rules nowadays, but it certainly does it a hell of a lot better than those pillows that boxers wear on their hands and a ref that breaks up the fight as soon as there's any sort of contact that isn't a fist hitting a face.

I have no problem with boxers, generally speaking. However, I have a serious problem with anyone who thinks that MMA is only about money and any boxer who criticizes the capacity of an MMA fighter without having stepped in the cage with four ounce gloves on.


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## dutch sauce (Sep 24, 2006)

IronMan said:


> Everyone seems to be missing the point here, so I'll repeat myself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


great post repped. perfect points i agree 100%


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## theboz19 (Jun 30, 2006)

Jushiness said:


> Matt Hughes would whoop Oscars ass.. money doesnt mean anything. how does that factor into this at all?


Money doesn't mean anything? Please come work for my company. I will pay you 1/50th of what you are currently making. The great thing is that you get to compete with the other great companies of the world and really test your skills.


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## BooyaKascha (May 27, 2007)

theboz19 said:


> Money doesn't mean anything? Please come work for my company. I will pay you 1/50th of what you are currently making. The great thing is that you get to compete with the other great companies of the world and really test your skills.


*Whoooooooooooooosh*

Hear that?

That's the point he was attempting to make whizzing right by. Baseball players on average make more than NFL players. Does that automatically mean Baseball > Football? Nope, try again.


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## Jushiness (Aug 1, 2007)

BooyaKascha said:


> *Whoooooooooooooosh*
> 
> Hear that?
> 
> That's the point he was attempting to make whizzing right by. Baseball players on average make more than NFL players. Does that automatically mean Baseball > Football? Nope, try again.


thank you.

the fact that some one makes more money then the other person in their particular combat sport does not mean that they are better fighters then people in a very different combat sport.

if a boxer faught me and stuck to only using his fists, never learning takedown defense, never learning anything about wrestling, jujitsu or basic grappling anything, i will kick his leg untill he can barely stand and then take him down and submit him. a MMA fighter could easily avoid getting punched and play very defensively till they get the opportunity to take the boxer down. and thats assuming that the MMA fighter cant out strike the boxer all together.

while a boxer will limit himself to blocking, dodging and punching, i can punch, block, dodge, kick, knee, elbow, takedown, lock, and choke the boxer.

and if the boxer learned takedown defense and grappling defense then hes no longer just a boxer and has become a MMA fighter. thus the arguement that a boxer is better then a MMA fighter is VOID.


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## oxpaulo (Jul 14, 2007)

When your watching a boxing match and your yelling at the screen "give him a knee" and "hes wide open for a takedown". Then you know youve turned the corner.


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## ZeroPRIDE (Apr 12, 2006)

what you what boring ass boxing. sad


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

IronMan said:


> Everyone seems to be missing the point here, so I'll repeat myself.
> 
> As for Oscar De La Hoya, he's saavy in the negotiating room and I respect his business smarts. He can laugh me all the way to the bank on that one and I'll be okay with that, but Oscar De La Hoya isn't a real fighter.
> 
> ...


Absolutely, I got your points, and agree with them 100 per cent. :thumbsup:


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

Vandalian...nice post. Well said. Muay Thai & Boxing are apples to oranges. Just Boxing...a Muay Thai fighter will most likely lose, and just Muay Thai...a boxer has never felt a knee to the midsection or face. Put a boxer in K-1 and he will get demolished. So really both would win in their own enviornment.


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## Slamnbam88 (Oct 23, 2006)

in the words of rogan...
boxing is the art of punching.
mma is the art of fighting.

boxers hit harder then mma fighters on average...its what the concentrate on.

that being said...boxers would be a meal for almost any mma guy.

read 'heart of a fighter' - this guy does all sorts of combat sports ..mt/bjj/mma/boxing 

mma vs. boxer in mma-mma wins
mma vs. boxer in boxer -boxer wins...but mma guy lasts a longer time
mma vs. boxer in street fight- we know


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## grkted55 (Dec 13, 2009)

Boxers with grappling would destroy anyone in a real fight. Look at Bj penn, Nick Diaz, Vitor Belfort, those guys are SAVAGES. They favor punching in their stand up because they CAN punch. Kicking is overrated, if you learn the basic defenses you will be fine and you wont get kicked but if you get in punching range with a real puncher or boxer, you are in TROUBLE. Even in clinching , once someone learns to position themselves correctly they won't get eaten with knees and elbows. All that muay thai stuff is overrated IMO. Boxing with grappling will make you a force to be reckoned with. Obviously you need the talent, because very few can punch successfully in mma or a real fight. Why does muay thai not have a huge following like boxing, the fighters dont get paid , punching will always be favored in a stand up fight, "it's the fastest way to hurt someone, punch them in the brain" Frank Shamrock


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, but remember that even Frank Shamrock got taken out by a kick from Cung Le. So saying that kicking is overrated just doesn't cut it. Kicking can have an effect, especially if they build up over time!:thumbsup:


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## grkted55 (Dec 13, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> Yeah, but remember that even Frank Shamrock got taken out by a kick from Cung Le. So saying that kicking is overrated just doesn't cut it. Kicking can have an effect, especially if they build up over time!:thumbsup:


Yea but Cung Le doesn't stay rigid into the classical muay thai stuff, he kicks very fast and hard, not just hard, he has the speeed in his kicks from taekwondo, same thing with anderson silva, he does back kicks , crescent kicks, I truly believe that Cung Le and Anderson Silva have an advantage from learning taekwondo, it's a very good foundation for a kid getting into the martial arts, very good. Look at Lyoto machida, the only person who figured him out was Shogun, before that he was untouchable. Traditional martial artists have an advantage I believe because of the unorthodox striking, they are hard to figure out and they are also very spiritual. Andy Hug, from k-1, axe kick, that's a kick!


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Oh the potential of Andy Hug. May he rest in peace. I wonder what would've happened if he competed in MMA!


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Remember when this thread was over three years old?


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, as Randy Couture said in boxing he would get beat by James Toney. They are two different sports that require different stuff from each athlete. Though MMA incorporates boxing, it isn't the same boxing!:thumbsdown:


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