# UFC releases Yushin Okami



## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

> The UFC has released perennial Japanese contender Yushin Okami (29-8 MMA, 13-5 UFC).
> 
> MMAjunkie.com today confirmed the company's decision with UFC officials.
> 
> ...



http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2013/...me-middleweight-title-challenger-yushin-okami


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Wow. This is odd. I understood cutting Fitch because he is an ass clown with a poor attitude, but this one is just strange.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

That is bullshit...3 wins before one loss against a beast of a MW?

That's bullshit!


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I don't get it. :dunno:


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

This is a sickening release, 7 years with the company not getting paid an obscene amount of money and cut after losing to #4 fighter in the division.

This is an example of why you should never trust the UFC over a fighter because the UFC is dirty and shady.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I don't get it. :dunno:


Me neither, wait never mind.

















Can't wait to hear how he's going to spin this one.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Pretty odd and hard to explain. 

But I love when people get genuinely mad at this. UFC is a private organization who grab all the fighters they want. If they don't think he is worth the contract he is getting, then of course they will release him. 

NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, Sponsors of all sports release athletes all the time. It is part of the business. Similar to other sports, Yushin with be picked up and given a new contract to compete.



John8204 said:


> This is an example of why you should never trust the UFC over a fighter because the UFC is dirty and shady.


Not saying the UFC isn't dirty or shady. But what part of this is dirty or shady? There is no guideline set as to what has to happen in order to get released. The UFC brass signs and has fighters who they want on their roster. If they don't want Yushin anymore then what is dirty about releasing him? It may seem strange but how is releasing a fighter they don't want shady?


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

What a head scratcher. Looking forward to hearing the rationale behind it though.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Don't remember the last time Okami won a fight that was considered an exciting or good fight. The Munoz fight wasn't bad maybe? I hardly remember it though.


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

Weird....guess they thought he was too boring to justify the contract. Kind of crappy someone good gets released. But in reality, no PPV buyer would want to see Okami, and he is a channel-changer.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Not saying the UFC isn't dirty or shady. But what part of this is dirty or shady? There is no guideline set as to what has to happen in order to get released. The UFC brass signs and has fighters who they want on their roster. If they don't want Yushin anymore then what is dirty about releasing him? It may seem strange but how is releasing a fighter they don't want shady?


Several reasons

-financially- The UFC is now cutting the guys getting middle of the road contracts. The UFC signs guys to low long term contracts and then cuts them first chance they get in 5 or 6 years we're going to see a lot of former fighters with drug and crime problems.

-competitively- Yushin Okami is a top ten fighter, he can defeat many ranked opponents. By cutting him this is the UFC's way to push other fighters into the title mix without having to earn it.

-ethically- The UFC is pushing wrestling out of the sport, it's not mixed martial arts when you remove one of the biggest aspects of the sport.

-morally- For an over sensitive a-nozzle like Dana White to piss and moan when fighters don't stand up for the UFC. When the company asks fighters to sign away their liknesses forever, when they take a chunk out of fighters sponsorship money, and when they run down guys not in the UFC or have left the UFC. It's just simply disgusting.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

That's it.

I'm done.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

Don't get it either. Also Stungun is gonna have a heart attack.


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## miceld (Jun 22, 2013)

Here's what Dana said on Twitter:


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

John8204 said:


> Several reasons
> 
> -financially- The UFC is now cutting the guys getting middle of the road contracts. The UFC signs guys to low long term contracts and then cuts them first chance they get in 5 or 6 years we're going to see a lot of former fighters with drug and crime problems.
> 
> ...


But again. How is this shady? Are they breaking any rules? These are all your opinions. UFC has opinions on why they don't want Okami. It isn't shady. If the UFC doesn't want a what is viewed as a "boring" grappler who looks past his prime...then who are you to say that is shady? 

What if a professional team were to cut a player who fans thought were good enough to play and help the team? (happens all the time in team sports) No one would ever say that is shady. Why? Because it is the teams decision. There is no clause in the UFC that says as long as you are a top 15 ranked guy by media outlets, that you can't be cut.

May not make sense to you. But they aren't doing anything wrong. If a promoter in boxing were to drop a fighter from their "team" because they simply didn't want them anymore...no one would say a word.



LL said:


> That's it.
> 
> I'm done.
> 
> ...


Oh no. The UFC will probably fold up since you are "done". 

Seriously. The UFC can sign or cut anyone they want. Just because you feel Okami is worth a roster spot doesn't mean the UFC has to feel that way too.

Step into the real world. Get a grip.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Okami hasn't looked good since his fight with Silva.

Its almost like he's becoming worse of a fighter everytime he fights, not surprised they cut him.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

And Dana is spot on. Doesn't mean Okami can't come back. Werdum was cut after losing to Werdum. He found his way back and now has a title shot in his sights. 

The pussifcation of the world continues. The UFC made a business decision. You don't have to like it.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

miceld said:


> Here's what Dana said on Twitter:


:laugh:

So Dana's excuse is that their roster is packed so they cut a universally top 10 MW who has 3 wins and 1 loss in his last 4 fights in the UFC.

Umm, okay.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

I don't see why he needs an excuse? It isn't like the last ranked guy always gets cut. Some guys lose 4 and stay in the UFC. Some have been cut after 1 loss to a top guy. Some guys cut for things other than performance. 

I don't understand what people think here? The UFC is free to cut Ben Henderson right now if they wanted to. It is their company.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I don't see why he needs an excuse?


Well he does'nt but he did, and MMA fans are all free to laugh at this stupid decision if they want to.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

BOOM said:


> Well he does'nt but he did, and MMA fans are all free to laugh at this stupid decision if they want to.


Didn't give an excuse. He gave a reason.

Roster is packed. They wanted to make cuts. They didn't want Okami on their roster maybe because he doesn't peak any interest. Looks to be over the hill. And makes more than lower ranked guys. They chose to cut him.

That strongman guy from Poland, Mario Pudz gets to main event cards. Yet there are more experienced/better fighters in those small organizations. Is that shady? Or are organizations just trying to run a business?

MMA fans are an odd bunch. They have no concept of business. They think everything in the UFC should be super candy fun land where everyone gets a turn. Everyone gets a trophy. Fights should be made strictly on rankings. No, it is a business to make money. And UFC made a business decision.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Just saw Dana's tweets. It really doesn't make any sense unless he was getting paid a lot.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

He's 6-4 in his last 10, 3-1 in his last 4, and in general has been top 10 in that division for a long time. He's not an amazing fighter who is going to win any belts but neither is 90% of the UFC's roster. 

Very strange cut.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Didn't give an excuse. He gave a reason.
> 
> Roster is packed. They wanted to make cuts. They didn't want Okami on their roster maybe because he doesn't peak any interest. Looks to be over the hill. And makes more than lower ranked guys. They chose to cut him.
> 
> ...


Cutting one of your better assets is a bad business move when there are much worse fighters who could have been cut if it was about money (business).

This business lesson is free of charge.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

It's not like MW is a wrestle heavy division. It needs dudes like Okami to separate those who can deal with grapplers and those who cant. He was perfect for filtering out contenders.

Silly move by Dana in my opinion.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

BOOM said:


> Cutting one of your better assets is a bad business move when there are much worse fighters who could have been cut if it was about money (business).
> 
> This business lesson is free of charge.


So I guess the UFC doesn't have a clue on how to run and make profit off a business. I guess Dana and company are just throwing darts hoping something will stick.

I guess they should consult BOOM on business decisions from now on.

Guess what, you have no details on the situation and are just guessing. The UFC isn't going to fold because the great Yushin Okami was cut.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

BOOM said:


> Cutting one of your better assets is a bad business move when there are much worse fighters who could have been cut if it was about money (business).
> 
> This business lesson is free of charge.


I agree that it is messed up, but a bad business move? Not really. Most folks don't really know or care who Yushin Okami is. Cutting GSP or Bones would be a bad business move, cutting Yushin Okami, although messed up, isn't going to hurt the UFC in the least bit when it comes to how much money they are going to make.


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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

Huh?:confused02:

I guess contract re-negotiations must have fallen through...


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Who really cares about Yushin Okami? Not many. So was this really a bad business move? I don't think so. Okami is known for his snooze fests and probably doesn't have that many fans that would rally to get him a spot back in the UFC. The truth is, he's about as interesting as a ping pong ball and the UFC saw no real reason to keep him hanging around any more, churning out boring fight after boring fight.

I honestly couldn't care less that they cut this guy,I've never enjoyed his fights and he's never going to win the title, so, what ever.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> So I guess the UFC doesn't have a clue on how to run and make profit off a business. I guess Dana and company are just throwing darts hoping something will stick.
> 
> I guess they should consult BOOM on business decisions from now on.
> 
> Guess what, you have no details on the situation and are just guessing. The UFC isn't going to fold because the great Yushin Okami was cut.



Who said anything about the UFC going out of business?





joshua7789 said:


> I agree that it is messed up, but a bad business move? Not really. Most folks don't really know or care who Yushin Okami is. Cutting GSP or Bones would be a bad business move, cutting Yushin Okami, although messed up, isn't going to hurt the UFC in the least bit when it comes to how much money they are going to make.


Okami is a very well known name internationally because he is a universal top 10 MW. And yes cutting down on quality to keep more quantity will have an effect on business.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

BOOM said:


> Who said anything about the UFC going out of business?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, all those people that were ordering PPV's to watch Okami are gonna take their money elsewhere...


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

My reaction when I saw the thread title on my phone. "WHAT!!??" Good thing I had already left the gym.

I wonder if Stun Gun has heard about this yet. I feel your pain if so.

I don't even know what else to say about this.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Stun Gun has been oddly quiet on this subject...should someone go check on him and removed any sharp objects from his home?


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

*F*uck the UFC - This is one of the reasons why I haven't paid for a card since BJ VS Diego.

Seriously, DO NOT buy their PPVs. They will always be available online.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

joshua7789 said:


> Yeah, all those people that were ordering PPV's to watch Okami are gonna take their money elsewhere...


Yes because that's what I was implying. :laugh:


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## JASONJRF (Nov 3, 2009)

I think UFC is cleaning out some of their higher paid fighters who dont have the best records or most exciting styles. So basically I believe Yukami can go fight elsewhere for a bit then go back to the UFC and the UFC can work a smaller money contract. Makes sense if your the UFC.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

BOOM said:


> Yes because that's what I was implying. :laugh:



You were implying that cutting Okami is somehow going to cause the UFC to lose money. It won't, at all.


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

El Bresko said:


> *F*uck the UFC - This is one of the reasons why I haven't paid for a card since BJ VS Diego.
> 
> Seriously, DO NOT buy their PPVs. They will always be available online.


I don't blame you man. I honestly wouldn't buy them anymore either, but my wife is a huge MMA fan so it make's a great date night for us.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

joshua7789 said:


> You were implying that cutting Okami is somehow going to cause the UFC to lose money. It won't, at all.


They will lose money if a large group of MMA fans take a stand and say we won't sit and pay for your cards while top 10 fighters on the planet get screwed like that. 

As far as i'm concerned, the UFC don't deserve my money.



TheNinja said:


> I don't blame you man. I honestly wouldn't buy them anymore either, but my wife is a huge MMA fan so it make's a great date night for us.


Bro, all you have to do is run a VPN that says you are in Germany and you can stream the fights from UFC.TV

Bellator should snap him up quickly to help build that roster and give some good names to Shlemenko.


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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

Well, no words can describe my emotions for this bs cut. This is worst than the Fitch cut if you ask me. Sure Okami didnt look amazing in his last fight. This makes no sense either if its a pay thing because Brandon Vera is still on the god damn roster. I'll never purchase anything from the UFC again now. 
I kind of hope Bellator picks him up, but honestly I can see him going to ONE FC maybe even World Series.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

joshua7789 said:


> You were implying that cutting Okami is somehow going to cause the UFC to lose money. It won't, at all.


You were saying?



El Bresko said:


> They will lose money if a large group of MMA fans take a stand and say we won't sit and pay for your cards while top 10 fighters on the planet get screwed like that.
> 
> As far as i'm concerned, the UFC don't deserve my money.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

If the UFC are saying the roster is too packed I'm sure there are 2-3 middleweights that deserve canning instead of a top-10 ranked fighter.

Sakara? Jared Hamman is 2-5 in the UFC, Uriah Hall at 0-2, Chris Leben?


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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

CupCake said:


> If the UFC are saying the roster is too packed I'm sure there are 2-3 middleweights that deserve canning instead of a top-10 ranked fighter.
> 
> Sakara? Jared Hamman is 2-5 in the UFC, Uriah Hall at 0-2, Chris Leben?


That would be logical though, to cut the guys who have losing records that make as much as Okami. But I guess they only have to pay Leben 51k since he never gets his win bonus. Where as they might have to pay Okami 84k since he wins


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

This is not some terrible business move. But Dana likes to say the best fighters fight in the UFC, that is not true when you are cutting the likes of Fitch and Okami.


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## JWP (Jun 4, 2007)

seems harsh. though I do think that if your not making a run at the title you probly need to atleast be exciting to watch. still though, new mandate perhaps?


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Questionable decision, and I can't say I support it. But I also suspect he'll be back within a year.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Questionable decision, and I can't say I support it. But I also suspect he'll be back within a year.


I hope he gets locked into a big money Bellator contract.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Never has a reply been so concise and to the point.

MMA UK @MMA__UK
@danawhite *just out of curiosity why did you cut Yushin Okami?*

Dana White ✔ @danawhite 
@MMA__UK *our roster is packed*
1:51 PM - 27 Sep 2013


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

This is looking like kids finding out Santa Claus is not real. 

Newflash: the UFC was never a legit, its all about winning sport. It always has been and will be for the foreseable future 

1. Entertainment
-
-
2. competition

This reminds me of when I first realized pro wrestling was all scripted.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Kind of the same situation as fitch in my eyes. You have a fighter who constantly wins, but has already proven he cannot beat the champion. Add to that the fact most fans do not enjoy watching his style of fighting, and the situations seem almost identical. I imagine the Ufc was waiting for him to lose so they could even partially justify doing it.

I know I won't lose any sleep over the cut.  Yushin consistently cleared the room when I had friends over to watch fights.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Fitch deserved to be cut a lot more than Okami. Stop comparing Okami to a guy who just got destroyed by a UFC washout and doesn't have half of the quality wins that Okami does.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Sonnen can't be happy. Sonnen's comments they had to apologize for lost Okami his job. 

They have been cutting "company guys" recently though. Kongo is better than many of these prelim HWs yet he was cut. Same with Fitch, they have been UFC guys for quite some time and at least UFC fans know them. Perhaps Dana is throwing Bellator some scraps and letting Okami run threw that tournament and then signing him back.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

It seems to me like the UFC has changed its priority's. 

I remember the old Dana saying that the ufc was about having the best fighters in each perspective weight class in one organization. Now the UFC is spread so thin they cant afford to pay the top 10 fighters or what? 

I mean they kept meathead among others and he looked horrible.

UFC 165 was one of the worst events Ive watched in a lot of ways. 

First the only fights with any value were the main/co-main events. My wife struggled to stay awake through the rest of the card as she is a casual fan and honestly sometimes less IS more. 

If they are going to ax top ten fighters wile churning out puke worthy PPV's with a endless trickle of unknown/unworthy fighters Ill never buy a PPV... 

Some of those fights didn't belong on fox much less a PPV card, what happened to "the UFC will never be like boxing" Dana?

Not only did the UFC stretch themselves too thin with card commitments but they seem to have boggled the structure of events. 

They should be using fox cards to set up PPV's and new fighters, leaving the PPV's for the fights with the most meat on the bone.

I just don't see the growth in competitors needed to sustain the commitments but hay Im not Dana or anybody in particular so ill just sit and watch.


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## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

Good, he was boring as shit, was only fun to watch him get knocked out.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

osmium said:


> Fitch deserved to be cut a lot more than Okami. Stop comparing Okami to a guy who just got destroyed by a UFC washout and doesn't have half of the quality wins that Okami does.


Who has Okami beat? Alan Belcher?

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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

Life B Ez said:


> Who has Okami beat? Alan Belcher?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Munoz, Marquardt, Lombard were all top ten guys. 

I think Fitch has beat more top ten guys though


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

The thought just hit me. Finances is secondary. The fact that Fitch and Okami were contenders and continually knock other potential contenders out is a detriment to their roster. On top of that they're not the strongest draws even though they're mid to high caliber fighters. 

It makes sense now. That is why after a seemingly trivial loss they used that as a casus belli to axe em. As aging fighters who have contended and most likely will never contend again...their value had diminished and therefore thrown overboard possibly with a small pension.

They're so damn smart. If Fitch and Okami lose then they say they made the right decision because they're over the top. If they win belts in other organizations they brag about how strong of a caliber UFC fighters are. Ones whom they cut are winning belts from other orgs. They win either way. Cuz they've freed up their marketing cap to recruit new fresh blood.

I see it now.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Life B Ez said:


> Who has Okami beat? Alan Belcher?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


UFC's website shows Okami having a win over Anderson Silva.


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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

BOOM said:


> UFC's website shows Okami having a win over Anderson Silva.


that was due to a DQ


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Stun Gun said:


> that was due to a DQ


Well yes but technically Okami won the fight.


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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

BOOM said:


> Well yes but technically Okami won the fight.


I'm the biggest Okmai fan on here most likely, and he doesn't deserve that win.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Stun Gun said:


> I'm the biggest Okmai fan on here most likely, and he doesn't deserve that win.



I agree with you, in fact the UFC should change that result to reflect differently on their website.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

CupCake said:


> That is bullshit...3 wins before one loss against a beast of a MW?
> 
> That's bullshit!


Pretty obvious there's a reason behind the release. I'm sure his record has absolutely nothing to do with it.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

I'm guessing there was a renegotiation and he refused to drop his price. The UFC wants big talkers, big brawlers, or champs, not guys who consistently beat up and comers 3-1 but don't stand and wang and can't sell fights to the english-language WWE-watcher fans with shit-talk. 

Sad because in any non-combat sport he'd be a treasured asset with such an output of performance.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Life B Ez said:


> Who has Okami beat? Alan Belcher?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Who has Fitch beat?



Stun Gun said:


> Munoz, Marquardt, Lombard were all top ten guys.
> 
> I think Fitch has beat more top ten guys though


Thiago Alves and... 








...Thiago Alves. That is the entire list and Thiago Alves is not any better than Lombard or Belcher.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> *The thought just hit me. Finances is secondary. The fact that Fitch and Okami were contenders and continually knock other potential contenders out is a detriment to their roster. On top of that they're not the strongest draws even though they're mid to high caliber fighters. *
> 
> It makes sense now. That is why after a seemingly trivial loss they used that as a casus belli to axe em. As aging fighters who have contended and most likely will never contend again...their value had diminished and therefore thrown overboard possibly with a small pension.
> 
> ...


Seriously, if that's the case then MMA is screwed. Some people would say they're manipulating they're own prize competition by getting rid of 'immovable objects'. That's about the worst thing you can do if you're in sports business. And it makes the UFC look shady as f***. Who fires one of their top guys just like that? They fired Fitch because they wanted to CUT HIS PAY. How often do you sign a new contract with your employer and he offers you half your old salary? Never because they know nobody would work for them if they did. 

Obviously this is now not a one time thing anymore. They're in the unique position of being the only MMA org fighters wanna be in and so they can afford to treat them like slaves in ancient Rome.

IMO there are two alternatives

1) Fighters' union and fair treatment of fighters
2) UFC monopoly and in 10-20 years time we will talk about MMA the way we talk about boxing


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## JWP (Jun 4, 2007)

No_Mercy said:


> The thought just hit me. Finances is secondary. The fact that Fitch and Okami were contenders and continually knock other potential contenders out is a detriment to their roster. On top of that they're not the strongest draws even though they're mid to high caliber fighters.
> 
> It makes sense now. That is why after a seemingly trivial loss they used that as a casus belli to axe em. As aging fighters who have contended and most likely will never contend again...their value had diminished and therefore thrown overboard possibly with a small pension.
> 
> ...


you might be onto something here


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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

osmium said:


> Who has Fitch beat?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know now that I look into I agree Okami has beat tougher fighters. you could add Pierce, Silva and maybe sanchez to his list


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

what do people see in Okami? he's a good fighter, looks like a decent guy, I never thought that much people would care about him being in the UFC

I only remember that ass whoopin he got from silva, barely anything else

and this is coming from someone who genuinely thinks each of GSP fights is more exciting than the last. So I don't think I'm that hard to entertain am I?

Okami was a bore, I feel bad because he genuinely seems to be a wonderful person, I have a sweet spot for japanese fighters in general, but come one, he's the epitomy of lay and pray.

I wish him the best, if anything, it'll change him for the better and he'll come back as a better fighter, but to be honest, I haven't good faith in that either but who knows?


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

hadoq said:


> what do people see in Okami? he's a good fighter, looks like a decent guy, I never thought that much people would care about him being in the UFC
> 
> I only remember that ass whoopin he got from silva, barely anything else
> 
> ...


MMA is supposed to be a sport (at least that's what they've been trying to tell the general public for the last decade or so) so there should be no playing favorites. You don't fire a great player from your team because he's a bit boring. 

What would people say if the Spurs fired Tim Duncan? Yeah, he's not flashy like, say, Blake Griffin, but he gets the job done.


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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

hadoq said:


> what do people see in Okami? he's a good fighter, looks like a decent guy, I never thought that much people would care about him being in the UFC
> 
> I only remember that ass whoopin he got from silva, barely anything else
> 
> ...


He is a very respectful fighter, and I enjoy his grinding technical grappling. I've always been a fan of strong grapplers who neutralize their opponent. I honestly enjoyed everyone of his fights.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Stun Gun said:


> You know now that I look into I agree Okami has beat tougher fighters. you could add Pierce, Silva and maybe sanchez to his list


Diego isn't a good fighter. Pierce probably is now but not when Fitch beat him and he still lacks a signature win to prove it. I need to see more of Eric against decent fighters.


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## Shady1 (Jan 27, 2011)

really shocked by this. It wasn't like Okami was on a decline or anything I mean he was on a 3 fight win streak before losing to Jacare. Can only assume Bellator, One FC or WSOF will come calling soon.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Joabbuac said:


> This is not some terrible business move. But Dana likes to say the best fighters fight in the UFC, that is not true when you are cutting the likes of Fitch and Okami.


Did you see Fitch's first fight out of the UFC?


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

> "He's been with us forever. He was always a tough guy and was right up there, but it's almost like he'd become a gatekeeper. I like Okami, and you've heard me say this many times, that a win over Yushin Okami meant something.
> 
> But he was never able to get over the hump and win one of those [significant] fights. We have a lot of guys coming in and I've been saying this all year: We have a full roster and there are guys who deserve opportunities. When you bring guys in, someone has to go. That's why these fights are so meaningful."


-Dana White


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## CarlosCondit (Jul 16, 2011)

OUTRAGEOUS!????? He had a 3 fight winning streak, before the loss to Souza. He beat Lombard and Belcher back to back. Yes, he might have been expensive, but I think that he was a great addition to the division. Bad move... but Bellator won't feel bad for sure.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> MMA is supposed to be a sport (at least that's what they've been trying to tell the general public for the last decade or so) so there should be no playing favorites. You don't fire a great player from your team because he's a bit boring.
> 
> What would people say if the Spurs fired Tim Duncan? Yeah, he's not flashy like, say, Blake Griffin, but he gets the job done.


Exactly, people saying that Okami is boring are looking at this the wrong way. A fighter being boring or not fighting the type of style they don't necessarily find entertaining has nothing to do with it. Okami more then gets the job done and is a top 10 MW universally without question, that's a quality fighter whether people want to admit it or not and it's something that should not be taken for granted by the UFC just because their roster is packed with lesser talent.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

oldfan said:


> -Dana White


What the f*uck is Dana talking about. Since when must the entire UFC roster be top 5 material? That kind of wouldn't work with more then 5 fighters, no? Besides, Bisping has never got over that "hump" either.

No, you need a bunch of quality guys right through the division. Okami is perfect for testing out the up and comers. Whos left at MW to really test the grappling of a fighter? Its not just about being championship material. Its about having deep division full of quality fighters.

The UFC do some dumb things sometimes.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Okami is on a secret mission to fetch the soul of Bellator's MW division home to his master. 

Shouldn't take long.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Bellator won't touch Okami with a 10 foot pole.


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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

This also doesn't make much sense since they are trying to break into the Japanese market. Okami is a big name for Japanese MMA.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

It makes sense if you aren't living under a rock and are remotely educated on Bellator's recent business practices.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Stun Gun said:


> This also doesn't make much sense since they are trying to break into the Japanese market. Okami is a big name for Japanese MMA.


Dana is a just bleed kind of guy and believes MMA fans who do not agree with his shitty decisions are dumb. Who cares about keeping the organization respectable and more interesting to foreign markets when they can try and sell them on a weight division mostly full of duds instead.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> MMA is supposed to be a sport (at least that's what they've been trying to tell the general public for the last decade or so) so there should be no playing favorites. You don't fire a great player from your team because he's a bit boring.
> 
> What would people say if the Spurs fired Tim Duncan? Yeah, he's not flashy like, say, Blake Griffin, but he gets the job done.


whos lying to you and calling MMA a sport?

Its prize fighting now and it always has been and always will be. Its not a sport and has never even came close to resembling one.


All that shit is just in your and other fans heads but its pure bullshit.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

slapshot said:


> whos lying to you and calling MMA a sport?
> 
> Its prize fighting not and it always has been and always will be. Its not a sport and has never even came close to resembling one.
> 
> ...


How it is not a sport? The ufc isn't a sport. Mma is a sport. When Jones and Gus fought that was a great example of sport in mma. 

Cutting a fighter like Okami may not be a popular decision because of how talented a fighter he is, but it doesnt hurt the sport as a whole it simply weakens the ufc's roster. If your fav hockey player gets cut because he is too expensive for the team does that hurt the sport of hockey?

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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> They have been cutting "company guys" recently though. Kongo is better than many of these prelim HWs yet he was cut.


As far as I remember, Kongo didn't get cut. He got a better offer at Bellator and opted to not renew his UFC contract after he had no fights left on his old contract.



Stun Gun said:


> This also doesn't make much sense since they are trying to break into the Japanese market. Okami is a big name for Japanese MMA.


Okami is probably THE big name for Japanese MMA concerning the UFC. Maybe they have given up hope for the Japanese market. They never could really establish the UFC in Japan like in Brasil, Canada or the UK. My first thought when reading the OP was that we're probably not going to see any UFC event in Japan soon. Maybe they're shifting the focus on China now.


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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

I seriously doubt Bellator picks up Yushin. Bellator is very meticulous about who they get from the UFC. If they feel like you're a threat to their division and will make their roster quality look inferior to the UFC, they won't touch you. That's why didn't go anywhere near Jon Fitch, and partially why they wouldn't offer Josh Barnett a contract. 

Notice that the guys from the UFC that Bellator usually gets are guys that are way past their prime, or guys they just feel wouldn't contend for a title. Such as Quinton Jackson, Tito Ortiz, Paul Sass, Chieck Kongo, etc...

Okami will most likely end up at World Series or ONEFC.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Bellator likes guys like Kongo because when he inevitably gets stopped by Minakov they can claim a former UFC top 5 got beat by one of their homegrown guys.


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## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

I am not sure why people are getting all worked up over this cut. It was a business decision. Cuts like this happen all the time in sports where contracts are not guaranteed. Every season in the NFL, at least one top 10 player at his position gets cut by a team. 

Yushin wasn't a draw, made more money than a lot of fighters, & wasn't going anywhere in the division. They cut him to free some money & clear room in the division.

This is the norm in the NFL.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

It's the norm in every major sport. That's why the outrage over this is so confusing.


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## BAMMA UK Guy (Jun 26, 2013)

Dana explains in more detail the release of Okami http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/9/28/4779642/ufc-president-dana-white-release-yushin-okami-mma-news


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Ape City said:


> *It's the norm in every major sport. * That's why the outrage over this is so confusing.


Actually that's not the norm, not even close in fact.

Major sport franchises don't let go of their better assets for nothing because they have too much lesser quality assets.


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## neo866 (May 22, 2008)

bruce leroy a ufc fighter yet okami cut.......?


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Ape City said:


> How it is not a sport? The ufc isn't a sport. Mma is a sport. When Jones and Gus fought that was a great example of sport in mma.
> 
> Cutting a fighter like Okami may not be a popular decision because of how talented a fighter he is, but it doesnt hurt the sport as a whole it simply weakens the ufc's roster. If your fav hockey player gets cut because he is too expensive for the team does that hurt the sport of hockey?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


well to start, most pro sports you have a clear rule set that dictates a path to a championship. 

You cant just toss Sonnen in with Jones wile there are two challengers already in the division waiting. I dont see the NFL NBA NHL or MLB toying with giving the championship game to a team that already lost in the playoffs. 

We've seen quite a few fighters get a title fight they didn't earn in a few divisions. Now that we have an official ranking system (that's rigged by the UFC) we shouldn't see a fighter get a title shot that he didn't earn right? Bella is the closest thing we have to a sport. 

The way they pay in prize fighting and the fact that other sports dont have to deal with the NSAC, its just all different. 

The UFC isn't a sport, the NFL is pro football. If my favorite player in football gets cut from one team he gets picked up by another not sent to a minor league arena football team. 

Pro Sport = clear rule set + linear competition = even playing field.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

neo866 said:


> bruce leroy a ufc fighter yet okami cut.......?


Alex Caceres: $20,000 ($10,000 to show, $10,000 win bonus)


:bye01:


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## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

BOOM said:


> Actually that's not the norm, not even close in fact.
> 
> Major sport franchises don't let go of their better assets for nothing because they have too much lesser quality assets.


It happens all the time in the #1 sport in the U.S., the NFL. It is routine for veteran top level players to get cut either because they are being overpaid or because they want to give younger players with potential more playing time. The best QB & #2 QB of all-time in the NFL, was just cut 2 seasons ago.

Whether you want to admit it or not, this is the norm in every sport that doesn't have guaranteed contracts.


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## neo866 (May 22, 2008)

Joabbuac said:


> Alex Caceres: $20,000 ($10,000 to show, $10,000 win bonus)
> 
> 
> :bye01:


Exactly my point dana's full of shit its all about money 
My guess is brandon vera next, lost his last 2 must be on good money 
I'm all for giving new guys a chance but why not let them fight the guy they want to cut? Money...


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## BAMMA UK Guy (Jun 26, 2013)

Well, the way I look at it, the more the UFC cut these types of guys, the better for all the other larger orgs as we get to pick up fighters with some name value.




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## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

neo866 said:


> Exactly my point dana's full of shit its all about money
> My guess is brandon vera next, lost his last 2 must be on good money
> I'm all for giving new guys a chance but why not let them fight the guy they want to cut? Money...


I am sure money is the main factor in this decision. Whether it is the amount he is getting paid per fight or the fact that Yushin isn't a draw. I think the fact Yushin can be a roadblock for many up & coming fighters is also a reason for him getting cut. Why carry a fighter on the roster that is making good money but isn't a draw, will never be a title holder, & is good enough to beat most rising stars?


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## neo866 (May 22, 2008)

TheAuger said:


> I am sure money is the main factor in this decision. Whether it is the amount he is getting paid per fight or the fact that Yushin isn't a draw. I think the fact Yushin can be a roadblock for many up & coming fighters is also a reason for him getting cut. Why carry a fighter on the roster that is making good money but isn't a draw, will never be a title holder, & is good enough to beat most rising stars?


You're right but its just wrong. Ufc make a fortune ffs if a guys winning more than they lose they shouldn't be cut. I like to be entertained but i also want to see the best.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

TheAuger said:


> It happens all the time in the #1 sport in the U.S., the NFL. It is routine for veteran top level players to get cut either because they are being overpaid or because they want to give younger players with potential more playing time. The best QB & #2 QB of all-time in the NFL, was just cut 2 seasons ago.
> 
> Whether you want to admit it or not, this is the norm in every sport that doesn't have guaranteed contracts.


It's the norm only when teams don't have the money and really have no other choice or have better cheaper options. But it's a rarity, a rarity is not the norm. Again not even close.


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## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

neo866 said:


> You're right but its just wrong. Ufc make a fortune ffs if a guys winning more than they lose they shouldn't be cut. I like to be entertained but i also want to see the best.


People forget the UFC is still a business with a bottom line. Cuts like this happen in other sports regularly.

Having Yushin sign with another organization can only help bring more competition against the UFC, something MMA fighters sorely need.


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## usernamewoman (Sep 24, 2007)

this was a huge mistake for the UFC, Okami has been in the top 10 for years and fought Silva for the belt after he earned the title shot. No matter where he goes he will bring with him a certain legitimacy to a middleweight division


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## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

BOOM said:


> It's the norm only when teams don't have the money and really have no other choice or have better cheaper options. But it's a rarity, a rarity is not the norm. Again not even close.


You are wrong. It's not a rarity. It happens every season & it isn't because the team has to do it. They do it because it is a business decision. Many times teams cut very good veterans or don't resign them because there are cheaper younger players on the roster with potential. That doesn't mean that right now the younger player is as good as the guy that got cut, it just means there is potential for him to be just as good. The best player in the NFL right now, was just cut 2 seasons ago. And not because he was making too much money or that he was injured, but because his former team made a business decision to rebuild the team with younger players. 

I could post a long list of Pro-bowl NFL players who where cut in the last 5 seasons if you want.

Again it's not a rarity.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

slapshot said:


> well to start, most pro sports you have a clear rule set that dictates a path to a championship.
> 
> You cant just toss Sonnen in with Jones wile there are two challengers already in the division waiting. I dont see the NFL NBA NHL or MLB toying with giving the championship game to a team that already lost in the playoffs.
> 
> ...


the fact is in pro leagues players that could be perfectly competent on a team get sent to the minors/released simply because their services aren't in demand. There are decent point producers at the highest levels that don't get to play at the highest level because their specific role they play in the sport isn't needed by any team and they are too old/expendable. It happens all the time. Guys that may have been making more than a million a year go from pro team to completely unsigned/unwanted.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

TheAuger said:


> You are wrong. It's not a rarity. It happens every season & it isn't because the team has to do it. They do it because it is a business decision. Many time teams cut very good veterans or don't resign them because there are cheaper younger players on the roster with potential. That doesn't mean that right now the younger player is as good as the guy that got cut, it just means there is potential for him to be just as good. The best player in the NFL right now, was just cut 2 seasons ago. And not because he was making too much money or that he was injured, but because his former team made a business decision to rebuild the team with younger players.
> 
> I could post a long list of Pro-bowl NFL players who where cut in the last 5 seasons if you want.
> 
> Again it's not a rarity.


Major sport franchises do not cut proven veterans which are their best players over young players with potential unless it's a sure fire lock. What you are describing is an extreme rarity and not the norm at all.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

BOOM said:


> Major sport franchises do not cut proven veterans which are their best players over young players with potential unless it's a sure fire lock.


untrue, franchises that are in a transitional period and facing a long stretch of bad play quite frequently cut their older players/trade them for nothing. A few months ago my hometown team traded our best player of all time for a bunch of nobodies. In every league there are teams rebuilding and they cut vets all the time.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

rabakill said:


> untrue, franchises that are in a transitional period and facing a long stretch of bad play quite frequently cut their older players/trade them for nothing. A few months ago my hometown team traded our best player of all time for a bunch of nobodies. In every league there are teams rebuilding and they cut vets all the time.


How long did the best player of all time play for your hometown team before he got traded?


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

BOOM said:


> Major sport franchises do not cut proven veterans which are their best players over young players with potential unless it's a sure fire lock. What you are describing is an extreme rarity and not the norm at all.


Yeah like how the Ravens didn't cut Ed Reed for an unproven 2nd rounder .


O wait.

Like how the Ravens secured a long term deal for Boldin and didn't trade him for a sack of peanuts and some new footballs.

O wait.


Like how the Ravens didn't cut the best FB in the game for seemingly no reason for like a 4th round project and only resigned said FB when said rookie sucked,


O wait.


And that's literally one team and one offseason.

Do you even watch sports? You seem like the type that just blabs about things you have no clue about.

Granted the NBA is much better about these things than either the MLB or National Plantation League but it's occurs there too .


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

BOOM said:


> How long did the best player of all time play for your hometown team before he got traded?


17 years or something. You are missing the point, just because someone can fill a spot doesn't mean they will. In the world of pro sports a players career can be decided by one mistake or one play that isn't even significant to the game they play in. 

If anyone becomes a pro athlete they should at all times understand that at any time they can be cut and being just good enough often times isn't enough to keep a job. Okami's not a big name draw and he's not going anywhere, from the UFC's perspective this completely makes sense to cut him. Why keep a guy who is going to be a gatekeeper when new talent that can create ppv buys are waiting? The UFC isn't required to pay people for past services.

This type of decision is actually quite prevalent in pro sports, teams struggling to make money often put guys in their lineup purely to get butts in seats even if it doesn't improve the team sometimes and they'll cut players that can help the team but cut them for the good of the franchises future.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Roflcopter said:


> Yeah like how the Ravens didn't cut Ed Reed for an unproven 2nd rounder .
> 
> 
> O wait.
> ...


Now list all the teams that keep their best assets and compare it to your examples.




rabakill said:


> *17 years or something. *You are missing the point, just because someone can fill a spot doesn't mean they will. In the world of pro sports a players career can be decided by one mistake or one play that isn't even significant to the game they play in.
> 
> If anyone becomes a pro athlete they should at all times understand that at any time they can be cut and being just good enough often times isn't enough to keep a job. Okami's not a big name draw and he's not going anywhere, from the UFC's perspective this completely makes sense to cut him. Why keep a guy who is going to be a gatekeeper when new talent that can create ppv buys are waiting? The UFC isn't required to pay people for past services.
> 
> This type of decision is actually quite prevalent in pro sports, teams struggling to make money often put guys in their lineup purely to get butts in seats even if it doesn't improve the team sometimes and they'll cut players that can help the team but cut them for the good of the franchises future.


Interesting, so teams trading their best assets for a bunch of nobodies is not the norm because the best assets are proven players who are the best players universally. They held onto him for 17 years for that exact reason, and thank you for proving my point.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

If you want to be a pro athlete play golf or basketball.

Seriously .


America prefers brutish bullshit over games of skill and finesse but these are good careers where you have a lot of job security and make a lot of money.

Why so many kids grow up wanting to play football is beyond me. Destroying your body for non-guaranteed pay where you can be killed or paralyzed any minute and walk away broke. Half the HOF are dead or invalids...joke sport honestly. Don't get me wrong, I watch , but the resentment and jealousy for football players is something I always laugh at.

I guess the disparity is because golf is inaccessible and most football players can't hack it in hoops.



BOOM said:


> Now list all the teams that keep their best assets and compare it to your examples.


This team just won the Super Bowl . I'm fairly certain they know what they are doing.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Roflcopter said:


> This team just won the Super Bowl . I'm fairly certain they know what they are doing.


Well maybe but that has nothing to do with what we're discussing.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

BOOM said:


> Now list all the teams that keep their best assets and compare it to your examples.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you know that most teams at some point trade their best assets eventually right?



BOOM said:


> Interesting, so teams trading their best assets for a bunch of nobodies is not the norm because the best assets are proven players who are the best players universally. They held onto him for 17 years for that exact reason, and thank you for proving my point.


No, thanks for proving your ignorance though. He got traded for a bunch of nobodies because the team waited 5 years too long and he lost all his trade value and by holding on to an asset we shouldn't have our team is now handicapped and projected to finish last in the league.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

rabakill said:


> the fact is in pro leagues players that could be perfectly competent on a team get sent to the minors/released simply because their services aren't in demand. There are decent point producers at the highest levels that don't get to play at the highest level because their specific role they play in the sport isn't needed by any team and they are too old/expendable. It happens all the time. Guys that may have been making more than a million a year go from pro team to completely unsigned/unwanted.


So lets use positions to replace weight divisions, your telling me one of the top ten tackles is going to get sent down to a ad hog team? Pfft nope. 

You wont find the teams just releasing any top player "generally speaking" as I said we are talking top players for the league here starters. 

Regardless if a player preforms they generally stay employed with one team or the other. Nobody's saying shit about linear competition. 

In most sports you cant just throw who you want in the playoffs they have to earn a shot at a championship.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

slapshot said:


> So lets use positions to replace weight divisions, your telling me one of the top ten tackles is going to get sent down to a ad hog team? Pfft nope.
> 
> You wont find the teams just releasing any top player "generally speaking" as I said we are talking top players for the league here starters.
> 
> ...


a more apt analogy would be weight divisions and teams, each with their own assets needs to be developed to create a product that people want to watch. Tim Thomas got cut from the Bruins and he won them a cup, Terrell Owens got kicked out of Philly and he was one of the best receivers in the league, Iginla and Morrow both captains of their teams last year got traded. Morrow nearly didn't even get signed. Ovechkin's been demoted many times and been forced to not play. I mean I could go on forever listing teams that walked away from or benched seemingly high valued assets


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

rabakill said:


> you know that most teams at some point trade their best assets eventually right?


Of course, it's just not the norm. Teams keep their best assets for as long as possible compared to teams letting their best players walk for nothing.

There's a key word in your question, "eventually".


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

slapshot said:


> So lets use positions to replace weight divisions, your telling me one of the top ten tackles is going to get sent down to a ad hog team? Pfft nope.
> 
> You wont find the teams just releasing any top player "generally speaking" as I said we are talking top players for the league here starters.
> 
> ...


Tackles have very high value and are scarce.

The UFC doesn't cut very many LHWs and HWs for this reason as well.

Divisions like LW,WW and now even MW are bloated to hell and have huge, promising prospect scenes.


Like I said, an All Pro FB got cut for no reason and got no offers and stayed jobless until his old team resigned him weeks later do to complications with his replacement.

Secondly not sure why you keep bringing up shit that doesn't matter... why the hell should the UFC care if their isn't another org as big as them ? Ridiculous logic.


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## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

slapshot said:


> So lets use positions to replace weight divisions, your telling me one of the top ten tackles is going to get sent down to a ad hog team? Pfft nope.
> 
> You wont find the teams just releasing any top player "generally speaking" as I said we are talking top players for the league here starters.
> 
> Regardless if a player preforms they generally stay employed with one team or the other. Nobody's saying shit about linear competition.



Jake Long. He is a consensus top 5 tackle in the NFL & was released/not resigned & sent to the minors, ST Louis Rams this season.

Joe Thomas. The best tackle in the NFL over the last 5 seasons might be traded in the next few weeks because the team wants to rebuild. They won't get anything for him but draft picks, which is a gamble at best.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

BOOM said:


> Of course, it's just not the norm. Teams keep their best assets for as long as possible compared to teams letting their best players walk for nothing.
> 
> There's a key word in your question, "eventually".


Right, because Yushin Okami totally hasn't been in the UFC for 7 years now.

Good job making a relevant point bro.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

rabakill said:


> a more apt analogy would be weight divisions and teams, each with their own assets needs to be developed to create a product that people want to watch. Tim Thomas got cut from the Bruins and he won them a cup, Terrell Owens got kicked out of Philly and he was one of the best receivers in the league.


LOL, well im not saying players dont get cut but they dont get cut for being successful. 

You really want to use Owens? ok well then did another team pick him up or was his career over? Im sure you can find players that got cut for bad behavior, bad knees getting old or whatnot but the point is that top players get to play in the NFL regardless of where.


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## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

slapshot said:


> LOL, well im not saying players dont get cut but they dont get cut for being successful.
> 
> You really want to use Owens? ok well then did another team pick him up or was his career over? Im sure you can find players that got cut for bad behavior or whatnot but the point is that top players get to play in the NFL regardless of where.


Successful players are regularly cut.

-Peyton Manning
-Elvis Dumerville
-John Abraham
-Vonta Leach
-Charles Woodson
-Carlos Dansby

These are just the names I could think of off the top of my head that were at playing at pro bowl level & were cut in the last year.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

TheAuger said:


> Successful players are regularly cut.
> 
> -Peyton Manning
> -Elvis Dumerville
> ...


youre a horrible reader. When the NFL commissioner puts the Jaguars in the Superbowl because he thinks they have a better run defense than the Broncos you get back to me.


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## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

slapshot said:


> youre a horrible reader.


How so?



slapshot said:


> LOL, well im not saying players dont get cut *but they dont get cut for being successful*.


Many players get cut for being successful. Have you ever heard of contract escalators?


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Roflcopter said:


> Right, because Yushin Okami totally hasn't been in the UFC for 7 years now..


Well duh, and still happens to be a top 10 MW fighter universally. Is your forte trying to make points that are irrelevant beacuse you're definitely on a roll today.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

TheAuger said:


> How so?


Because its not like cutting manning its more like cutting the Colts because they run between the tackles, dont pass and win using their defense. 



TheAuger said:


> Many players get cut for being successful. Have you ever heard of contract escalators?


Whatever you say man, top players may be cut from one team and picked up by another but that doesn't correlate with having to fight outside the UFC unless they have to find employment outside the NFL. Im sure it happens to a few but not like it does in MMA.

Besides that's only one of many reasons MMA is prize fighting and not a true sport. That doesn't mean I dont enjoy it more than any other sport, I defiantly do.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> What would people say if the Spurs fired Tim Duncan? Yeah, he's not flashy like, say, Blake Griffin, but he gets the job done.


I know i'm being a pedant here but in no world will Blake Griffin ever be considered anything close to Tim Duncan. Tim is a legit top 10 NBA player of all time, Griffin won't touch the top 200.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

El Bresko said:


> I know i'm being a pedant here but in no world will Blake Griffin ever be considered anything close to Tim Duncan. Tim is a legit top 10 NBA player of all time, Griffin won't touch the top 200.


But his commercials are so funny!?!!?


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

BOOM said:


> Who said anything about the UFC going out of business?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cutting Yushin Okami had zero effect on business, obviously. They obviously don't think he generates Japanese interest to the effect Hardy/Bisping do with England. The UFC will lose out on 0 (or close to 0) pay-per-view buys with Okami gone, and they are saving people from turning the channel during Okami fights.

With that being said, still a little stupid that he was cut for no reason since he's still good, but I understand saving the money when he is rather boring for the most part.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

El Bresko said:


> I know i'm being a pedant here but in no world will Blake Griffin ever be considered anything close to Tim Duncan. Tim is a legit top 10 NBA player of all time, Griffin won't touch the top 200.


True. But I guess in a way that's exactly my point. Okami is a top guy and has been for a while, as is Tim. Both of them have the reputation of being somewhat boring but effective. Nobody in their right mind would cut Tim and sign Blake instead. It's not like the UFC is going to replace Yushin with a fighter of equal caliber because... well there's just nobody out there right now. From a sports point of view there's just nobody outside of the UFC who deserves a spot on the roster over Yushin.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> True. But I guess in a way that's exactly my point. Okami is a top guy and has been for a while, as is Tim. Both of them have the reputation of being somewhat boring but effective. Nobody in their right mind would cut Tim and sign Blake instead. It's not like the UFC is going to replace Yushin with a fighter of equal caliber because... well there's just nobody out there right now. From a sports point of view there's just nobody outside of the UFC who deserves a spot on the roster over Yushin.


Good points and thanks for clearing that up.

but I would say that Khalidov and Shlemenko are both on Okami's level or would atleast give him a very good fight.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

El Bresko said:


> Good points and thanks for clearing that up.
> 
> but I would say that Khalidov and Shlemenko are both on Okami's level or would atleast give him a very good fight.


I would agree on Shlemenko (haven't seen enough of Khalidov to comment). But at the same time I think it would be better to have them both on the roster instead of cutting one for the other. There has got to be space on the roster for top fighters, especially for one of the most accomplished 185 pounders today. 

There are currently 56 MWs signed to the UFC (according to their website), and Okami can't be one of them? It just doesn't make any sense to me.


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## rebonecrusher (Nov 21, 2011)

You know I really don't think Okami deserves to be cut. The guy is still a top ten middleweight and is much better then a lot of the roster. I think because especially lately he has not been that fan friendly of a fighter and the one sided beating from Jacare was the icing on the cake.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> I would agree on Shlemenko (haven't seen enough of Khalidov to comment). But at the same time I think it would be better to have them both on the roster instead of cutting one for the other. There has got to be space on the roster for top fighters, especially for one of the most accomplished 185 pounders today.
> 
> There are currently 56 MWs signed to the UFC (according to their website), and Okami can't be one of them? It just doesn't make any sense to me.


100% dude, all 3 of them should be in the UFC (if they want to be known as the organisation with the best fighters in the world)

The UFC cutting Yushin was a foolish move.. 

if anybody wants to know how to stream the cards from UFCTV for free then hit me up via PM.


Here's a little HL of Khalidov, dude is a monster everywhere. 





There should be better highlight videos out there too


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

The other thing that makes this obscene, Okami might have been top ten now but it wasn't like Fitch who was hanging around in the top ten for a year, Okami was *top five* before his fight with Jacare. 

Also I'm sorry but if the UFC engages in the same horrible and exploitative pay system the NFL does that's the day I stop being a fan of MMA.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

John8204 said:


> The other thing that makes this obscene, Okami might have been top ten now but it wasn't like Fitch who was hanging around in the top ten for a year, Okami was *top five* before his fight with Jacare.
> 
> Also I'm sorry but if the UFC engages in the same horrible and exploitative pay system the NFL does that's the day I stop being a fan of MMA.


Same here, man. The word disillusion comes to mind.


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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

*WSOF 'in talks' with former UFC title challenger Yushin Okami*



> World Series of Fighting could soon add a top 10 middleweight to its roster.
> 
> A day after the UFC released former UFC title challenger and perennial contender Yushin Okami (29-8 MMA, 13-5 UFC), WSOF President Ray Sefo today expressed his interest in the fighter's services.
> 
> ...


This should be good for him, as long as I can see my guuy fight. He will be back to the UFC soon enough


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Stun Gun said:


> This should be good for him, as long as I can see my guuy fight. He will be back to the UFC soon enough


I just hope he doesn't go full Fitch on us. I'd love to see him back in the UFC, the sooner the better in my opinion.


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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

Okami is a better fighter than Fitch. Okami rarely rushes, and he doesn't make as many technical mistakes like Fitch.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

This is the worst decision I've ever seen by the UFC, and everyone knows how I usually defend them no matter what. Okami would probably beat Bisping right now, and Dana wouldn't cut Bisping in a million years.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

BOOM said:


> Actually that's not the norm, not even close in fact.
> 
> Major sport franchises don't let go of their better assets for nothing because they have too much lesser quality assets.


Major sports franchises run into money troubles all the time. One of the best ways to fix a team bleeding money is to trade an extremely high payed athlete for prospects that cost a fraction of what the former does. The prospects cost less and have a chance to turn into amazing athletes. The team no longer pays millions to a semi-performer.




slapshot said:


> well to start, most pro sports you have a clear rule set that dictates a path to a championship.
> 
> You cant just toss Sonnen in with Jones wile there are two challengers already in the division waiting. I dont see the NFL NBA NHL or MLB toying with giving the championship game to a team that already lost in the playoffs.
> 
> ...


I see what you're saying, but I guess I just look at it a different way. I thought it was completely ridiculous that Sonnen fought Jones, believe me, I thought it was a joke. The fight itself though was still good sport, and if Sonnen won, he would have been a legitimate champion.

It comes down to whether or not it is more important to you to establish champions or see good fights. The UFC is trying to find a balance, because you can't really have just one and run a successful combat organization. 

Could you imagine if the UFC only gave title shots to the number 2 ranked guy in each division based on a rigid system? We would have seen Fitch fight GSP for the title 17 times. Match making is part of combat sports and in that sense it doesn't really work to compare.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Ape City said:


> Major sports franchises run into money troubles all the time. One of the best ways to fix a team bleeding money is to trade an extremely high payed athlete for prospects that cost a fraction of what the former does. The prospects cost less and have a chance to turn into amazing athletes. The team no longer pays millions to a semi-performer.


Yes major sports franchises run into money issues but trading their best assets is not the norm.




The Best Around said:


> Cutting Yushin Okami had zero effect on business, obviously. They obviously don't think he generates Japanese interest to the effect Hardy/Bisping do with England. The UFC will lose out on 0 (or close to 0) pay-per-view buys with Okami gone, and they are saving people from turning the channel during Okami fights.
> 
> With that being said, still a little stupid that he was cut for no reason since he's still good, but I understand saving the money when he is rather boring for the most part.




Well maybe to you but there are loads of MMA fans who have stopped supporting ($$$) the UFC for making stupid decisions over the years like letting Okami walk. I'm not even that big on Okami but it's obvious that any business that keeps watering down their product is going to lose money because their customers will find alternatives and spend their money elsewhere.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Would you consider Okami one of the UFC's best assetts?

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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Ape City said:


> Would you consider Okami one of the UFC's best assetts?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


In the MW divison absolutely.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Ape City said:


> Would you consider Okami one of the UFC's best assetts?


Yes, he's basically the underboss of the division. Sonnen and Jacare got major credibility for beating him, think about how hard it was for a guy to get elevated in the title picture at MW. Jacare running through Okami made him a number one contender without the same reservations Belfort, Weidman and Bisping had. I understand the desire to have flashy players that draw money but when you get rid of the guys with credibility how far away are we from having Kimbo Slice vs Tank Abbott as main events?

How great would an NFL team be with 60 QB's and no linemen.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

My initial reaction was that it is very strange, but after reading some discussion on it and thinking about it myself for a while, I'm actually okay with this.

This is a sports entertainment business, and it has to have both sport and entertainment. Okami is a stagnant fighter in the sense that he's not going up and not going down. He's not a guy to beat the #1 contender and get any sort of popularity/PPV sales, and he's not a guy you feed to an up and comer because he's good enough to beat them.

This gives the UFC a big time headache, they are throwing money at a guy who doesn't have a "place" in a growing organization, he isn't helping new fighters and he isn't going anywhere the UFC can really utilize him, he's filler (there's a lot of that in the UFC, not just him).

From a business stand point it makes a lot of sense and from an entertainment stand point it makes a lot of sense. As a sport.. not so much, as he's a legit top 10 guy. We as hardcore fans scratch our head some at the decision, but it's not going to hurt the UFC any and from their view it's probably a good thing, so it makes sense to me.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I'm not really an Okami fan, but I think he can beat almost anyone in the division. He has a glass jaw, like Bisping, which will always work against him. But his sheer power can see him dominate anyone in a grappling exchange. I think, if he could somehow avoid the striking, Okami could give Weidman a difficult night too.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

Some very good discussion going on here. While Okami got close to a title, he'll most likely never be a holder as long as Silva is there.

Okami is a top ranked MW and I really think it sends the wrong message by cutting him. Was he the most entertaining? No, but he had a skillset that would make him dangerous to anyone in the weight class.

The money issue is pure BS though, this isn't pro sports where another team can pick him up, or in this case organization. There's others out there, but the way MMA is working these days, it's pretty much UFC or bust (talent in other orgs are pretty thin).

There's so many other lower tier bums/guys on skids that could have got the axe before Okami... It's times like these I really question DW's decisions*

*Unless we're not getting the whole back story on this.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Cut basically because he's good enough to beat most of the division but not the absolute best. Sucks.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I'm sure theres more backstory to it tbh. He's a top guy + Japanese. They don't have many asian top guys in the roster.

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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

HexRei said:


> Cut basically because he's good enough to beat most of the division but not the absolute best. Sucks.


Horse meat! Give him the HORSE MEAT!


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)




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## rezin (May 28, 2007)

Okami wasn't making bucket loads of money per fight. This guy worked his butt off, made it to a title fight which was not handed to him. Compared to other challengers, Yushin had to put together a string of victories.

Look at how much the UFC makes from Fox and PPVs, they should absolutely be looking for the best fighters. If you are really arguing the UFC cant afford to keep a fighter making 42/42, maybe they have some serious problems, which I highly doubt.

Okami himself might not be a draw but he is a solid name for the Main card. How many recent PPVs had some garbage fight on the main card. Okami is much better for that position. If that isnt worth 42/42, I dont know what is.

Its things like this that makes me think the player's need a Union. Look at the other major sports

NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL all have unions and everyone is well taken care of. Look at boxing, no union and while some make huge sums, the lower guys can make next to nothing as well.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

The roster is packed, so they cut an expensive guy nobody cares about rather than a cheap guy.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Okami was not an expensive fighter, he was getting 42/42 contract which is actually kinda pathetic and low for a guy whose co-main eventing/in the title picture for five years.

The UFC cut Okami because they want more control to manipulate title fights.


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## usernamewoman (Sep 24, 2007)

if they cut Okami they better cut Shields next


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Its bullshit because the UFC is supposed to keep fighters that win and cut fighters that lose. Yushin won 3 in a row and lost 1 to a top guy and he gets cut?? Wtf.... The UFC needs to stop saying 1 thing and doing another. Clearly being a good fighter who wins fights is not what is needed to be in the UFC. They should come out and say what is needed so fighters can start striving for that. If that means getting in slugfests then so be it.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> MMA is supposed to be a sport (at least that's what they've been trying to tell the general public for the last decade or so) so there should be no playing favorites. You don't fire a great player from your team because he's a bit boring.
> 
> What would people say if the Spurs fired Tim Duncan? Yeah, he's not flashy like, say, Blake Griffin, but he gets the job done.


If you think the UFC is a "sport" and not more or less real pro wrestling....then you bought the UFCs act hook line and sinker. Open your eyes. 90% of what they do is based on hype/fake beefs. 

And pro teams of all kind release/trade/or don't resign players because of their contract. If a players isn't performing up to his contract he is released. Even if he could still help the team in some way. If you think otherwise, then you must not follow sports. Way to compare Tim Duncan, the best players in Spurs history, to Okami. That makes no sense. Peyton Manning had a neck injury and is one of the very best players in all of NFL football. They decided to draft a new QB 1st overall and part ways with Manning. Why don't we use that analogy. Teams turn their entire rosters over frequently in team sports. 

The UFC is allowed to cut or sign whoever they want. It is laughable that people are so up in arms over this. You can not understand the move, it was a little shocking to me as well. But the UFC doesn't have some clause in contracts that forces them to keep anyone ranked in the top 15 by media outlets. They have cut or not resigned top 10 guys before....and they will do it again.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Ape City said:


>



:laugh:


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I dont think they deserve quite as much grief as everyone is saying. This is ONE awful decision.

Okami is trouble for everyone without KO power. His chin is VERY weak, but if you're a fighter like Bisping, you are going to have trouble with his freakish strength.

To support Okami, I today went on a spree of beating up Anderson Silvas on Undisputed 3. Spinning heel kick? Naah, counter back position takedown followed by you rage quitting son.


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

Being a good fighter with a good record is simply not enough...I'm sure Okami's marketability and long stint with the UFC played a major factor in the decision. There is a reason why Dan Hardy gets to stay after 4 losses in a row and why guys like Okami and Fitch get their walking papers.

The true MMA fans that really "get it" are unfortunately the minority. But at the end of the day it's really just about the business and what you provide for the UFC. They didn't see value in Okami anymore. 


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

On another site I'm on, I had a guy saying "The knockouts are cool, but when they go for submissions and stuff it's boring". I directly blame him for Okami's release.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> On another site I'm on, I had a guy saying "The knockouts are cool, but when they go for submissions and stuff it's boring". I directly blame him for Okami's release.


What site is this...lolz! Oh man that is funny. He must have started watching this within the last two years. That amazes...it really does.


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## GDPofDRB (Apr 18, 2013)

Crap cut. This entertainment is about making it exactly what the guy who started watching last week wants. Zuffa takes the UFC further from a sport with each new fan.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

No_Mercy said:


> What site is this...lolz! Oh man that is funny. He must have started watching this within the last two years. That amazes...it really does.


To be honest, I only started watching MMA not too long ago. A few Brock Lesnar fights, the Bisping Vs Hendo TUF series and then Strikeforce.

My favourite fights are Jitz guys all the same.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> To be honest, I only started watching MMA not too long ago. A few Brock Lesnar fights, the Bisping Vs Hendo TUF series and then Strikeforce.
> 
> My favourite fights are Jitz guys all the same.


You guys are shocked people out there don't like the ground game?

This is news to you guys? Do you guys live under rocks?


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

jonnyg4508 said:


> You guys are shocked people out there don't like the ground game?
> 
> This is news to you guys? Do you guys live under rocks?


I don't think the surprise is that _ people_ don't like the ground game, I think the surprise, at least to me, is that they call themselves _MMA_ fans. It's such an integral part of the sport. 

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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

I don't like stand up when its boring. I don't like the ground game... When its boring. 

So i don't really like Okami.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

I don't like it but I get it. It wasn't like Okami was putting asses in seats. His fighting style didn't attract casuals and neither did his personality. That being said, he was still a top guy. If you're going to market your company as having the best fighters in the world, then you shouldn't be cutting them. 

They're going to try to hype up Jacare's last win but it loses credibility now since the guy he beat was apparently just a 'gatekeeper' who didn't belong. What kind of dumb shit is that? Just be honest and say he was boring.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> You guys are shocked people out there don't like the ground game?
> 
> This is news to you guys? Do you guys live under rocks?


Wait, you mean to tell me there's supposedly other important things to _Mixed_ Martial Arts?


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

AlphaDawg said:


> I don't like it but I get it. It wasn't like Okami was putting asses in seats. His fighting style didn't attract casuals and neither did his personality. That being said, he was still a top guy. If you're going to market your company as having the best fighters in the world, then you shouldn't be cutting them.
> 
> They're going to try to hype up Jacare's last win but it loses credibility now since the guy he beat was apparently just a 'gatekeeper' who didn't belong. What kind of dumb shit is that? Just be honest and say he was boring.


You know, if they just came out and said we cut him because he was boring then I'd be more okay with it. 

To paraphrase George Carlin right now they are full of bleep and pretending they're not, like Bob Dole. I prefer the Bill Clinton way "I am full of bleep and here it is".


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