# ***OFFICIAL*** Mauricio "Shogun" Rua vs. Brandon Vera Thread



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

*Light Heavyweight bout: 205 pounds*
*Main Event - Five round fight*


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## rul3z (Jun 27, 2010)

Poor Vera is going down!

Shogun wants to give a show to prove he deserves the next Title shot. War Shogun


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Shogun adds another stoppage win to his record.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

Perfect match up for Shogun. 

Shogun will be all over Vera from the opening bell.

I see this looking a lot like Shogun vs Rampage.

This is actually going to be very fun card as I see both main fights being one-sided smashings. These type of mismatches might not be the most meaningful fights, but they are a lot of fun to watch.

The question is, who will pull the crazier finish, Machida or Shogun, because Dana has basically said which ever one puts the worse beating on Bader and Vera gets a title shot.


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

It was me... I did it... I voted Vera... well someone had to.

I actually think Vera is going to make this fight a lot more interesting than people are giving him credit for. Yes Shogun is the clear cut favorite, but I don't see a beatdown happening here.


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## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

Brandon Vera shouldn't win... but I have a sneaking suspicion he is going to find a way to tire and decision Shogun.

.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Shogun is gonna kill him.

Maybe he could use the KOTN bonus he's gonna get to pay for some surgery Vera's gonna need afterwards, Shogun still has potential to be a top five guy at 205, Vera's not even top fifteen. If Vera wins this I might have a stroke on the spot.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

I'm trying to be as objective as possible... but Shogun will beat Vera the same way Thiago did, if not quicker (via TKO).


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I think Vera is going to win this. I think Shogun is looking past Vera, and I also think that Vera is actually going to come in right. Technically speaking Vera is the more technical MT fighter between the two of them, but Shogun clearly has more power and techniques that work well for him. They both have vicious leg kicks, Vera even winning via stoppage after his opponent could no longer stand.

I think Vera wins a majority decision by out lasting and out landing Shogun.

I also think that Vera could win by highlight reel KO and Bader could win by a smothering decision and Bader would get the title shot.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I am taking Shogun here. Shogun may not be what he once was but Vera has always been insanely overrated.


Sent from my iPhone using VerticalSports


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

Anybody who thinks Vera will win is a victim of the UFC Hype Machine. This is one of those record-padding fights that is oh-so-common in boxing, and it's unfortunate to see Dana White stoop to this level. 
Shogun via vicious beatdown KO


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

This is the dumbest matchup I've seen in a while. Brandon Vera has to be in the bottom 10 LHWs in the UFC, right? He barely beat Eliot Marshall ffs...

I guess the UFC is throwing Shogun a bone after his fight of the year with Hendo. :dunno:


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Shogun is gonna kill him.
> 
> Maybe he could use the KOTN bonus he's gonna get to pay for some surgery Vera's gonna need afterwards, Shogun still has potential to be a top five guy at 205, Vera's not even top fifteen. If Vera wins this I might have a stroke on the spot.


We may not agree often, but I definitely agree with this. It is a mismatch, legendary fighter who people think is well out of his prime (he isn't) against a guy who generally only does well against shitty strikers. 

Shogun by total domination in round one.


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## rebonecrusher (Nov 21, 2011)

I much like almost everyone else expect Shogun to win and stop Vera. But I could see if Vera brings his A game possibly making this fight a close long drawn out Muay Thai chess match. Vera at times has looked good but for the most part whenever hes had a step up in competition he hasn't performed. I expect Shogun to come out aggressive and take Vera out with a flurry of strikes.I expect Vera for the most part to be trying to avoid Shogun at all costs and to use mostly only leg kicks as his offense, but if Shogun isn't as aggressive as he should be this fight could end up going the distance and be close.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

So by reading the replies in here if Vera wins what excuse will everyone have for Shogun? His knees aren't what they used to be? Vera must be on TRT?

To be totally honest I see this as being a great fight no matter who wins. I honestly think "styles makes fights" applies to this one.


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## ratm (Mar 10, 2012)

Shogun


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> Anybody who thinks Vera will win is a victim of the UFC Hype Machine.


Or they just want to look like a genius on the 0.01% chance that something weird happens.


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## Don$ukh (Jan 2, 2007)

cdtcpl said:


> I think Vera is going to win this. I think Shogun is looking past Vera, and I also think that Vera is actually going to come in right. Technically speaking Vera is the more technical MT fighter between the two of them, but Shogun clearly has more power and techniques that work well for him. They both have vicious leg kicks, Vera even winning via stoppage after his opponent could no longer stand.
> 
> I think Vera wins a majority decision by out lasting and out landing Shogun.
> 
> I also think that Vera could win by highlight reel KO and Bader could win by a smothering decision and Bader would get the title shot.


Agree with the standup analysis. In a pure MT match it would be an almost even fight, speaking of their striking technique. 

If Shogun opts to a striking match then Vera could match him. Only if Vera comes in sound mentality wise. I think the biggest weakness of Vera is his mentality not his MMA skills.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I actually think Shogun is going to clinch and do the foot sweep take down that he always does and finish him from the mount. I just don't see him banging on the feet for all three rounds. He's gonna try to finish as quickly as possible and Vera ALWAYS covers up once he gets hit on the ground without fighting back or launching any sort of submissions, sweeps, reversals, etc. 

This fight will be completely dictated by Shogun. Keep it on the feet win KO or FOTN night or just finish him off as quickly as possible.


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## Risto (Oct 11, 2006)

Shogun. In a brutal fashion.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

> Out of the four guys Lyoto was the toughest puzzle, brandon had the biggest mouth, bader felt the strongest, shogun lasted the longest. lol
> 
> — Jon Bones Jones (@JonnyBones) August 2, 2012


I don't think there is any other sport where a massive underdog has as much chance of winning. It's one of my favorite things about MMA.

it's not as if Shogun has never looked bad or anything....

I say it could happen. war truth


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## Jags (Aug 7, 2010)

I think Shogun is going to smash Vera everywhere, I really don't see him being a competitive fight at all.

WAR SHOGUN!


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Vera looked a little shook at the press conference.

I think he may break.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Vera looked a little shook at the press conference.
> 
> I think he may break.


yeah, I thought he looked scared to death. Hopefully he's been studying that great philosopher, Mike Tyson



> Fear is your best friend or your worst enemy. It's like fire. If you can control it, it can cook for you; it can heat your house. If you can't control it, it will burn everything around you and destroy you.


 Who knows, Shogun just slugged it out with hendo.... Vera is faster and has more standup weapons than Dan. And who knows what losing that fight took out of Rua? In my opinion his brother was never the same after a similar war with Rampage.


It might just come down to which can last longer, Shoguns cardio or Vera's heart.


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Shogun drops him, mounts him and pounds him out in round 1.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Vera looked a little shook at the press conference.
> 
> I think he may break.


Vera already said he's really nervous to fight the legend that is Shogun, I'm not a pro fighter and I know they all get nervous, but I don't think thats a good mentality to fight Rua with.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

oldfan said:


> yeah, I thought he looked scared to death. Hopefully he's been studying that great philosopher, Mike Tyson
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Shogun's an interesting dude, he does fantastic against great strikers like Machida but he struggles with guys like Dan Henderson who aren't as technically sound like a guy like Machida.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Shogun's an interesting dude, he does fantastic against great strikers like Machida but he struggles with guys like Dan Henderson who aren't as technically sound like a guy like Machida.


I think it's overconfidence. Hendo for example, Shogun was probably quite sure he can avoid a right hand and make Hendo pay for throwing it.. but forgetting that if it does land, its big trouble.

Machida, he's thinking well this guy is truly quite good at what he does, I need to outsmart him.

I think Shogun has been prone to stooping to an opponent's level by being overconfident, like trading bombs with Hendo when he could have slowed him massively with less than 10 leg kicks, allowing to him to be more successful with his hands or get the takedown much earlier and have more success with his ground game.

I don't think Vera has the mental strength to deal with even a brawling Shogun anyway, but I think Rua is taking this fight very seriously.


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## AmEagle (Jun 13, 2007)

I'll never say any fighter doesn't have a chance, but anyone saying they think Vera has a decent chance to win this is either falling victim to the UFC's hype, or just fooling themselves.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Shogun: by violence.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

If Vera went out to win a fight I think he could take Shogun if Rua shows up any less than 100%. That said its Vera's weak mentality and tendency to fight defensively that works against him. Maybe its just me but I have always though Vera showed glimpses of greatness and I think he is the better striker of the two but while Shogun can be somewhat inconsistent at times I don't even think that term covers the degree of what we see from Vera, he goes from glimpes of greatness to straight out looking like he doesn't even deserve to strap on a pair of UFC gloves. I always felt like Vera has one last great performance left in him and I hope its this fight because it could be epic if they both show up ready to go. I think Shogun will take it but anyone who is shocked if Vera comes out on top hasn't paid attention to either guys careers.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I am taking Shogun here. Shogun may not be what he once was but Vera has always been insanely overrated.


This.

Vera is basically 1-3 in his last 4, but even that win is very controversial. It should have been a draw against Marshall, but still. 

Rua is not the same fighter he was when he was younger. He lost some aggresiveness and athleticism, but that's also due to the injuries he had in his carrier since leaving Pride.


That being said, he should make quick work of Vera.
Once he tags him, he will go for the finish and do it brutally.

I see this going like Rua vs Griffin 2.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Toxic said:


> If Vera went out to win a fight I think he could take Shogun if Rua shows up any less than 100%. That said its Vera's weak mentality and tendency to fight defensively that works against him. Maybe its just me but I have always though Vera showed glimpses of greatness and I think he is the better striker of the two but while Shogun can be somewhat inconsistent at times I don't even think that term covers the degree of what we see from Vera, he goes from glimpes of greatness to straight out looking like he doesn't even deserve to strap on a pair of UFC gloves. I always felt like Vera has one last great performance left in him and I hope its this fight because it could be epic if they both show up ready to go. I think Shogun will take it but anyone who is shocked if Vera comes out on top hasn't paid attention to either guys careers.


yeah thats what I was going to say


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## "El Guapo" (Jun 25, 2010)

I picked Shogun TKO 1 in the pick'em but I've got a weird feeling about this fight....

Also the Machida fight for that matter.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

it just occurred to me, 

what happened? how did we get to Brandon Vera in the main event and Phil Davis in the prelims? :confused02:


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

I have absolutely zero clue.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

oldfan said:


> it just occurred to me,
> 
> what happened? how did we get to Brandon Vera in the main event and Phil Davis in the prelims? :confused02:


Better point 3rd main event in his last 5 fights. Figure that one out.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...Man, easily the best FOX card so far. Headliner fighters. Shogun & Vera should be a good fight but I don't know-National TV-primetime- both are Muay Thai experts that can land gashing elbows and knees from many positions. I'm sure Dana wouldn't want to see a repeat of a Cain vs. Bigfoot fight! Just have to see how it plays out. I think the only way Brandon can beat Shogun is with a headkick that rocks him badly, a monster knee or out cardio him. Shogun cracks Vera with a flush right hand, Vera will turtle-up and it will be over. Shogun has more compact punching power and twice the chin.
...Machida is a bad match-up for Bader. Machida's technique, angles and footwook are so hard to deal with. Bader has good KO power but he will have a hard time landing anything flush on Lyoto. Should be a good fight along with the rest of the card...


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

oldfan said:


> it just occurred to me,
> 
> what happened? how did we get to Brandon Vera in the main event and Phil Davis in the prelims? :confused02:


Stann got hurt, Lombard got moved.

Davis is coming off a pretty bad whipping at the hands of Rashad and the UFC probably didn't want him in the main event again after his last showing. But that fight still makes more sense than Shogun/Vera and I think Davis has a shot against Shogun due to his grappling, I give Vera no shot against Shogun.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)




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## Westie (Aug 4, 2012)

Hi Guys, have been a long time reader of the forum and this is my first post. 

Really looking forward to this fight, I think it'll be closer than people think but I'm still going for a Shogun win, 3rd round tko.


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## Old school fan (Aug 24, 2011)

I don't know if it's allowed (if not I'll edit right away), but could someone send me a stream of the fights? I'm kinda broken this weekend but can't miss my boy shogun fighting. Thanks!


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Westie said:


> Hi Guys, have been a long time reader of the forum and this is my first post.
> 
> Really looking forward to this fight, I think it'll be closer than people think but I'm still going for a Shogun win, 3rd round tko.


Welcome to the forum. You picked a good time to join:thumbsup:

I'd love to see Vera win but Rua is much more skilled in everything but wrestling. The Truth is gonna need a (don't want to call it that) lucky shot to win this one.


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## Westie (Aug 4, 2012)

RustyRenegade said:


> Welcome to the forum. You picked a good time to join:thumbsup:
> 
> I'd love to see Vera win but Rua is much more skilled in everything but wrestling. The Truth is gonna need a (don't want to call it that) lucky shot to win this one.


Thanks mate. I want to see Shogun get the next title shot, so i'm hoping it's convincing!


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

> Accumulator (4)
> Pending	€10.00
> Joe Lauzon by Submission @ 2.75
> Mike Swick by KO @ 2.80
> ...


My bet is looking good so far, come on Shogun!!


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm kinda pulling for Vera, just because he's such a massive under dog. Would be crazy if he won!


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Spec0688 said:


> I'm kinda pulling for Vera, just because he's such a massive under dog. Would be crazy if he won!


If he wins, i'll kill myself.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Great fights so far. I know a lot of newbies who are watching tonight, I just hope the main event doesn't disappoint. 

truth


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)




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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

rygu said:


> If he wins, i'll kill myself.


given any thought to how?

just curious

war vera (sorry)


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## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

How did Vera get this fight again? :confused02:


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

oldfan said:


> Great fights so far. I know a lot of newbies who are watching tonight, I just hope the main event doesn't disappoint.
> 
> truth


I talked a bunch of people into watching that first Fox card with Jds and Cain. Felt like an ass when I kept getting texts saying "is that it" or "so it's over?" 

Been great so far. Let's hope it continues


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Interesting that Couture is picking Vera to beat Shogun.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Hellboy said:


> How did Vera get this fight again? :confused02:


Blame Rua if you're looking for a scapegoat. He was offered Glover and claimed he wasn't worthy. Quitcherbitchin:thumb02:


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Vera is a bum. Please retire this man, Shogun.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

RustyRenegade said:


> I talked a bunch of people into watching that first Fox card with Jds and Cain. Felt like an ass when I kept getting texts saying "is that it" or "so it's over?"
> 
> Been great so far. Let's hope it continues


I shouldn't have even said newbies. I meant normal people.


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## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

No one actually believes all the stuff the UFC is saying about Vera having all this seriously untapped potential, but what if he actually proves them somewhat right tonight and KOs Shogun with a knee or something? LOL. I can't even imagine the reactions in this thread.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

War Vera!!!


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## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

Couture says Vera has nothing to lose and picked him.
hmmmm...think I'll stick with Shogun, though!


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

This is going to be ugly.

This will be Shogun/Rampage II.


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

This will all come down to how Shogun moves around on his feet tonight. If he is the tenacious, dynamic fighter from the Machida fights, or the sloppy, plodding version we saw vs Henderson and Jones. If it is the first, Vera won't last a round. If it's the other, I still like Shogun, but by a boringish decision.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

> “Fear is your best friend or your worst enemy. It's like fire. If you can control it, it can cook for you; it can heat your house. If you can't control it, it will burn everything around you and destroy you.


the moment of truth


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

What the **** is this shit?

WHERE'S THE ARMIN VAN BUUREN?!


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Sterl said:


> No one actually believes all the stuff the UFC is saying about Vera having all this seriously untapped potential, but what if he actually proves them somewhat right tonight and KOs Shogun with a knee or something? LOL. I can't even imagine the reactions in this thread.


A big knee is one of the only ways I see Vera winning:thumbsup: Let's hope it is of the flying variety so we get Vera vs Jones and Lyoto vs Rua


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Shogun's music isn't making me want to witness a murder. I'm suddenly feeling the urge to go and paint my neighbour's fence.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Felt weird not hearing Armin during Shogun's walk-out.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Iiiiiiiiiiit's fight time?


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Can't help but feel it ought to have been Machida vs. Shogun and Bader vs. Vera, but still... thoroughly enjoying this card thus far.


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Just put some decent money on Shogun by sub at 8/1. Go for the kneebar!!!!!


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Shogun looks great, he'll win this.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Wtf is this takedown shit?


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## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

Vera looked very good on the feet for those 30 seconds.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I was kind of surprised with shogun.


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## woeisme (Jul 25, 2011)

WOw...


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Bet lyoto is loving this...


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Shogun the wrestler!


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## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

I Just About Poopded My Pants During Dat Der Gulliotine


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## woeisme (Jul 25, 2011)

Phew...I thought Vera got it.

Come on now, muay thai fight only pls...who would have thought this is gonna be a ground fight


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Choke!!!!!


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

If this fight ends in fantastic KO... you guys think there will there be a machida/shogun 3?


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Shogun has taken his spirit. Now, he takes his head.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

Damn Vera hanging in there. 

Did not expect this.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

I think Machida gets title shot unless Shogun KOs Vera.


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## slapstick (Oct 15, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Shogun has taken his spirit. Now, he takes his head.


We hope


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

RearNaked said:


> Damn Vera hanging in there.
> 
> Did not expect this.


I bet Vera didn't either.


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Disgusted Shogun didn't go for the neck. I'm totally comfortable he will win but he'll make me big money if he subs him.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Get that money!


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## woeisme (Jul 25, 2011)

Yesssss.....


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

gonna get put out


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## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

Jesus Shogun is slow. What the hell.


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## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

Shogun is pretty much outclassing Vera. Brandon has a puncher's chance but Rua has such a good chin.

Vera is getting hurt with anything Shogun is landing.

Addition: Rogan is really hyping anything Vera is doing but both guys are running out of gas. This is going to be a deep-breathing hugfest soon. I also don't understand why he's saying Shogun is so tired, Vera is gassing much worse.


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

ffs! shogun looks tired... my parlay bet


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Rogan needs to stfu. Vera didn't clip him with anything, you oaf. Shogun is just sloppy, lol.


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## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

rhonda "yummy" rousey!


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

damn!

This is FOTN for sure!


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Take him down!


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## BOMDC (Feb 13, 2011)

I think Hendos right hand took something from shogun... still kind of looks like a zombie on the feet.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

REALLY hoping Vera wins.

I want to see all these Shogun nuthuggers on their knees.


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## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

Vera is losing but not to the degree I thought he would. Actually impressed to tell the truth.


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## EastonAssassin (Nov 5, 2009)

Shogun's cardio sucks...i wonder what excuse will be used to cover it up....


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## woeisme (Jul 25, 2011)

Shogun is gassing right now, and Vera's face is a mess


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

Oh wow.

Shogun in charge of being shape for fights...


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

So, I'm thinking Lyoto is going to get the title shot.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Truth!


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Aaaah, the old cardio issue eh?


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Shoulder shrugging the body? :laugh:


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

I hope Vera wins. Don't want to see him cut.

Give Machida the title shot.


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## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Rogan needs to stfu. Vera didn't clip him with anything, you oaf. Shogun is just sloppy, lol.


Joe acts like every punch thrown is a knockout blow. It's really annoying, "Oh, he's rocked!" all the time.

In other news, Shogun's cardio routine paying off once again.


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Never seen Shogun this passive off his back ever.


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## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

Gentleman's agreement to lay there for the rest of the round?


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Rua's conditioning..........just awful...awful...:thumbsdown:


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Even though Vera didn't do anything when he took Shogun down, I give him the round.

1-1 going into third!


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

I'll drink until I blackout if Shogun loses and I rarely drink, if ever. 

Wtf is with Shogun's gastank. **** me.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Wow, I've never seen this kind of toughness and resiliency out of Vera before.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

Shogun can still win this, he just needs to suck it the %^$* up


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

What the ****? Where has Shogun's cardio gone??


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## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

Vera can win this fight. COME ON BRANDON!


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Man, what the hell has happened to Shogun?


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

I'd like to see Vera win this. I think they both were kind of just saving energy on the ground there.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Shogun just needs a gas tank. He dominates Rounds when he is fresh but every round he dominates takes him a round to recover from!!


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## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

war vera!


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

Man why is it that Shogun always seems gassed after the 2nd round. 

So far this fight could go either way


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

Dana pretty impressed by Vera's performance?

From his twitter: 

Dana White ‏@danawhite
Vera is fighting like he wants it!!!!!


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## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

So I'm pretty much sold on the Shogun of old never returning again. The in-shape woodchipper assault of limbs that took Rampage down easily is never going to come back. His cardo is shot after being injured so much and his technique is gone. All he is is a slugger at this point.

Vera never lived up to the hype that he created. It's nice to see him back fighting again but he's not of the caliber of the top tier fighters. 

Lyoto is going to get the title shot in a match that was tailor made for him to win impressively.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Well, I guess we know who's balls are in Joe's mouth.


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## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

Joe is pissing me off in this fight. "Brandon has shown that he can hang with the top of the division" no he has not. Shogun looks like shit and he has looked like shit in every fight in the UFC apart from both Lyoto fights. I bet if he didn't get that first round knockout in the second fight he would have gassed as well.

I don't understand why he gasses in every fight. Makes no sense for a professional fighter to be in that kind of shape.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I have shogun winning the first two and three so far.

But yea machida for the title imo :thumbsup:


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Well, I guess we know who's balls are in Joe's mouth.


Was just about to post this.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Vera elbows ftw!


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

This is one heck of a main event. When this fight first got announced, I wrote it off like whatever, Shogun will kill him. I'm impressed by Vera to say the least, he's giving Shogun everything he's got.


----------



## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

BWoods said:


> *So I'm pretty much sold on the Shogun of old never returning again.* The in-shape woodchipper assault of limbs that took Rampage down easily is never going to come back. His cardo is shot after being injured so much and his technique is gone. All he is is a slugger at this point.
> 
> Vera never lived up to the hype that he created. It's nice to see him back fighting again but he's not of the caliber of the top tier fighters.
> 
> Lyoto is going to get the title shot in a match that was tailor made for him to win impressively.


Said it bro

It's like I'm waiting for Mirko Cro Cop's LHK to return - not gonna happen


----------



## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

IcemanJacques said:


> Joe is pissing me off in this fight. "Brandon has shown that he can hang with the top of the division" no he has not. Shogun looks like shit and he has looked like shit in every fight in the UFC apart from both Lyoto fights. I bet if he didn't get that first round knockout in the second fight he would have gassed as well.
> 
> I don't understand why he gasses in every fight. Makes no sense for a professional fighter to be in that kind of shape.


Considering that he used to be known for being a whirlwind fighter who never stopped coming. Years of knee damage and being unable to train because of it caused his gas tank to shrivel up.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Joe: He's hammer fisting him! :thumb02:


----------



## Westie (Aug 4, 2012)

Joe Rogan is bordering on the ridiculous with his bias towards Vera.


----------



## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

I put a half million on Shogun but I'd lose it to see Vera win, I like him abs would like to see him.win this. I love Shogun but he is well past his prime and Vera never lived up to so much promise.


----------



## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

Dana must just be loving life right now. What a perfect night of fights for free. This had to make a few fans for him.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

I don't think it could be any more obvious why Shogun wanted no part of Glover Texieira at this point.


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

I trully believe Rua knew what he was doing...by refusing to fight Teixeira.

Nothing to do with, "worthy opponent" or "rankings".

I think he dodged a bullet here...


----------



## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

I dont unserstand how Vera can be a BJJ brown belt... He offers zero from his back


----------



## Old school fan (Aug 24, 2011)

Shogun looks shitty imo. Machida should get the shot.


----------



## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Jesus Christ Rogan, SHUT UP!


----------



## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

MikeHawk said:


> What the ****? Where has Shogun's cardio gone??


Must have left it at home.


Sent from my iPhone using VerticalSports


----------



## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

Vera is fighting like Chute Boxe has his wife tied up in a basement somewhere


----------



## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Ruas corner is fecking retarded. "You won every round."

This is a fight!


----------



## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

BWoods said:


> Considering that he used to be known for being a whirlwind fighter who never stopped coming. Years of knee damage and being unable to train because of it caused his gas tank to shrivel up.


You could have a point. If that is the case then he just needs to call it a day then. Go up against someone better than Brandon and gas and he's going to eat a lot of shots that could lead to brain damage. Especially after the huge shots he took from Bones and Hendo already, and obviously many other shots. Just those two stand out because he gassed.


----------



## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

The fact that Shogun needs to go for takedowns in order to win fights now is ridiculous.


----------



## EastonAssassin (Nov 5, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> I don't think it could be any more obvious why Shogun wanted no part of Glover Texieira at this point.


so true...


----------



## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

Shogun St Pierre


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Come on Vera!


----------



## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

Give the shot to Machida...Jones will sweep the floor with either Vera or Shogun. These guys look like shit. Especially Shogun. Least Machida stands somewhat of a chance.


----------



## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Does Shogun have back acne? or did he always have those spots on his back? never really noticed them before but since he's going for takedowns so much this fight, they are more noticeable.


----------



## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

Whenever they separate it's clear that Vera is a much better technical striker but he's far too willing (and too tired) to let Shogun press him against the fence. 

This is the exact same shit that caused him to lose the fight against Sylvia. Once he gets pushed around Brandon's will just disappears.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Better late than never!


----------



## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

Shogun gets more dangerous the more zombie he becomes


----------



## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

Hahaha, one of the worst fights I have ever seen.


----------



## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

Yesssss!!!!!


----------



## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

Damn it. Oh well. Shoguns done.


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Damn

Still title shot for machida :thumbsup:


----------



## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Shogun won, but it wasn't a great win. I can see why he ducked Tex.


----------



## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Whatever, not a very good performance either way. Sloppy finish, no wonder Shogun didn't want to fight Glover.

Not very impressed with Vera's performance, but he showed a lot of heart. He wasn't given much of a chance at all, but he still made it a competitive fight.


----------



## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Jones will kill Shogun again


----------



## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

It wasn't pretty but at least he finished him.

Props to Vera for showing more heart in this fight, than all of his previous fights combined.


----------



## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

Ok so it was a sweet finish by Shogun....but can we all agree that he looked like shit and fought sloppy as hell? He was gassed after round 2.


----------



## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Rogan butthurt. What a chump.


----------



## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Jesus Christ Rogan, SHUT UP!


Someone should shutup and it ain't Rogan.


----------



## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

I think Shogun's gameplan was to come out strong in round 1, cruise through round 2 and 3, and end strong in the later rounds to give the illusion that he has improved cardio.


----------



## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

I will give Vera his props, he hung in there until the bitter end and ate BOMBS.

But man, Shogun looked bad, just so slow and sloppy, plodding. He's still got hellacious power but his cardio is shot to shit.


----------



## woeisme (Jul 25, 2011)

Jon Bon Jovi would have murdered that Shogun. Good fight but not very impressed.


----------



## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Damnit. Oh well. Vera did a lot better than I thought he would. I even gave him the second round.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I think it says a lot that a 50% Shogun can still do what he does, but I think his days as a contender are over. All of the wars and the surgeries have caught up to him. I don't fault him, and still have a great deal of respect for the man and his career. That said, I don't know where he goes from here. There will come a day where he goes the way of Wanderlei Silva if he keeps on like this.


----------



## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

luckbox said:


> Rogan butthurt. What a chump.


Rogan is known for being bias obviously, but that was as blatent as I have ever see him on a fighter's junk.


----------



## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

so who do you choose to fight the champ the one tat got a ko or te one tat got a tko in a war?


----------



## Westie (Aug 4, 2012)

It just shows you how much of a beast Shogun is. He wins fights without having any cardio!


----------



## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

Shogun doesn't deserve a title shot. Maybe he'll get matched up with James Te Huna, Gustaffson, or Thiago Silva. 

I don't want to see Vera go but he needs a few easier fights before he can approach the top tier again if at all.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

I find it hilarious that just NOW people are realizing that Shogun post three knee surgeries is incredibly shot.

I've been saying this for almost a year now.


----------



## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

M_D said:


> so who do you choose to fight the champ the one tat got a ko or te one tat got a tko in a war?


Definitely Machida. Shoguns cardio was unbelievably awful tonight and he looked terrible despite getting the win.


Sent from my iPhone using VerticalSports


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Ari said:


> Damnit. Oh well. Vera did a lot better than I thought he would. I even gave him the second round.


Learn to score fights.


----------



## HorsepoweR (Jun 1, 2007)

Shogun needs to retire


----------



## Old school fan (Aug 24, 2011)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> I will give Vera his props, he hung in there until the bitter end and ate BOMBS.
> 
> But man, Shogun looked bad, just so slow and sloppy, plodding. He's still got hellacious power but his cardio is shot to shit.


My thoughts exactly. :thumbsup:


----------



## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

BWoods said:


> Shogun doesn't deserve a title shot. Maybe he'll get matched up with James Te Huna, Gustaffson, or Thiago Silva.
> 
> I don't want to see Vera go but he needs a few easier fights before he can approach the top tier again if at all.


Shogun would lose to all of them except for maybe Thiago in my opinion. Pretty much anyone who has cardio will beat him these days. I'd love to see my boy James Te Huna get a shot at him though, be a good name for him.


----------



## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

M_D said:


> so who do you choose to fight the champ the one tat got a ko or te one tat got a tko in a war?


Machida looked sharp.

Shogun's fight was better but everyone expected him to run through Vera.


----------



## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> I find it hilarious that just NOW people are realizing that Shogun post three knee surgeries is incredibly shot.
> 
> I've been saying this for almost a year now.


Maybe I'm just now accepting it. I always thought he could get back in shape but it's becoming apparent now he just doesn't have the gas tank he used to. 

He's still exciting to watch for the first two rounds though =D


----------



## Westie (Aug 4, 2012)

rygu said:


> Rogan is known for being bias obviously, but that was as blatent as I have ever see him on a fighter's junk.


I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I normally like Joe but this so poor on his part.


----------



## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

Just shows how good Shogun once was that he can go to war, take a shitload of punishment, KO the guy brutally in the 4th round and people still say he is past it.

He is past it, though.


----------



## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Learn to score fights.


I gave Vera the second round as well, learn not to be a dick. 

He landed just as many strikes as Shogun, and ended up on top in the final 90 seconds or so.


----------



## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

So he admitted he was tired coming out of the 2nd round and he is not happy with his performance....yea no shit. 

A part of me feels like Shogun is getting the rug pulled up from under his feet here a bit - he did just fight 4 gruelling rounds and finished Vera...but man..he did not look great. What is going on? Where was the Shogun that fought Machida? Come onnnnnnn!


----------



## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

This is seriously how Shogun has always looked. He was gassed in rd 1 the last time he KO'd Reem. He was getting tooled standing up against Diabate. 


He gets the job done though because hes a killer.


----------



## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Shogun doesn't deserve to fight Jones after that performance, but I wouldn't mind another highlight reel win for Jones.

I think Jones will still beat Machida, but that rematch would be a lot more competitive in my opinion.

Machida was the more impressive fighter tonight and should get the rematch against Jones.


----------



## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Vera hung in a lot better than I had anticipated, and did very well early on. But Shogun stopped being elite quite some time ago. Machida still has it and deserves the shot.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> I find it hilarious that just NOW people are realizing that Shogun post three knee surgeries is incredibly shot.
> 
> I've been saying this for almost a year now.


Well, you just know more about MMA than everyone else :bored04:

People knew Shogun was not the same fighter as he was in Pride. That much was obvious. I don't think they were ready to admit that he was 'shot' after all of the heart he showed against a very game and dangerous Dan Henderson. That said, it's a different story when you fade against Brandon Vera.


----------



## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Shogun doesn't have the weapons to hurt Jones, Mahida does. Give Machida the shot.


----------



## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> I find it hilarious that just NOW people are realizing that Shogun post three knee surgeries is incredibly shot.
> 
> I've been saying this for almost a year now.


It's a unanimous opinion throughout the MMA interwebz that Shogun is a shell of his former self after the last Machida fight.


----------



## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

khoveraki said:


> This is seriously how Shogun has always looked. He was gassed in rd 1 the last time he KO'd Reem. He was getting tooled standing up against Diabate.
> 
> 
> He gets the job done though because hes a killer.


First Machida fight?


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Spec0688 said:


> I gave Vera the second round as well, learn not to be a dick.
> 
> He landed just as many strikes as Shogun, and ended up on top in the final 90 seconds or so.


No he didn't. Are you blind? 


Unless you considering shoulders to the belly button as "strikes".

Vera did nothing that round except almost get knocked out for a good minute and a half.


----------



## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

Dana confirmed Machida gets the shot.

GOOD CALL


----------



## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Ruas fight with Machida didn't have nearly as much grappling so I can see why he gassed quicker. 

This was a great fight and a grueling performance by both. Either guy could have folded and noone could fault either fighter. Anyone discrediting either fighter is crazy.


----------



## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Roflcopter said:


> Learn to score fights.


Disgruntled virgin is disgruntled...


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Now after Glover retires Rampage, Shogun will have no more excuses and The Baker can retire him as well.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

IcemanJacques said:


> Shogun would lose to all of them except for maybe Thiago in my opinion. Pretty much anyone who has cardio will beat him these days. I'd love to see my boy James Te Huna get a shot at him though, be a good name for him.


Anyone with cardio? Vera's issue wasn't cardio. It was getting his butt whooped by a 30% Shogun. Rua will never challenge Jon Jones, but Shogun on his worst day is still a nightmare for any fighter not the champion. 

James Te Huna didn't exactly look a world beater after his last fight. Though I'd be intrigued to see him and Shogun go at it.


----------



## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Machida took the 1st round against Jones, hopefully he can correct his mistakes and give Jones hell. Shogun wouldn't last a round against Jones fighting like he did tonight.


----------



## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

If/When Glover beats Rampage, he should get Shogun, and the winner should get Jones.

Glover vs. Jones will sound good to me.


----------



## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

kc1983 said:


> So he admitted he was tired coming out of the 2nd round and he is not happy with his performance....yea no shit.
> 
> A part of me feels like Shogun is getting the rug pulled up from under his feet here a bit - he did just fight 4 gruelling rounds and finished Vera...but man..he did not look great. What is going on? Where was the Shogun that fought Machida? Come onnnnnnn!


Unfortunately this Shogun or the Shogun that fought Machida wouldn't be able to do anything against Jones. Shogun wouldn't be able to push Bones around like he did with Hendo and Vera. He also wouldn't be able to close the distance and inflict any significant damage, Johnny has some really good space control. 

What happened during the first fight showed that Shogun, who likes to play the bottom game when he gets taken down, gets demolished by Jones because his top game is absolutely brutal.

If Machida comes into a Bones II fight with his old style he could win it. Jones' striking is still imperfect and Lyoto's movement and timing is beyond amazing. I think he probably stands the best chance of dethroning Bones at this point.


----------



## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> No he didn't. Are you blind?
> 
> 
> Unless you considering shoulders to the belly button as "strikes".
> ...


Like I said, he didn't do much on the ground, but judges score takedowns just as much as strikes in most situations, unless its pure domination standing, which it wasn't. I think you're forgetting some nice combos, following up with a kick in the 2nd round. I think the striking in the 2nd round canceled each other out, and Vera ended up holding Shogun down for the final 90seconds, or however long it was to finish the round.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

rygu said:


> Disgruntled virgin is disgruntled...


I'm not disgruntled because people have no ability to perceive what they just saw or have such small attention spans that someone throwing shoulder strikes to the belly button for the last minute of a round somehow negates nearly being knocked out and rallied on for the first half of the round, being taken down, controlled on the ground and Shogun moving to the back before getting taken down late.


----------



## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

rygu said:


> Props to Vera for showing more heart in this fight, than all of his previous fights combined.


Yup, I've never seen Vera hang in there like that, ever. I thought he was done for sure when Shogun had him rocked and wobbly against the cage. There were several times when I was just waiting for him to fold like a cheap chair but right up until the end he toughed it out and recovered, and even put Shogun in trouble a couple times. That was no doubt the best Brandon Vera performance I've ever seen, I'm hoping he can keep it up and put in more good fights.

As for Shogun, damnit man, cardio damnit! And throw more kicks ffs.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

lets don't give Brandon any credit at all. All those shots he landed probably had nothing to do with Shogun gassing and desperately wanting to take it to the ground.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Spec0688 said:


> Like I said, he didn't do much on the ground, but judges score takedowns just as much as strikes, and I think you're forgetting some nice combos, following up with a kick in the 2nd round. *I think the striking in the 2nd round canceled each other out,* and Vera ended up holding Shogun down for the final 90seconds, or however long it was to finish the round.


Yeah that's nice except Shogun also got a takedown and he badly hurt Vera with a flurry of punches.

Nice try, just admit you don't have an attention span and were to busy listening to Rogan to judge the fight accurately.


Also, lmfao.


Have a nice night sir.


----------



## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Nick_V03 said:


> Shogun doesn't deserve to fight Jones after that performance, but I wouldn't mind another highlight reel win for Jones.
> 
> I think Jones will still beat Machida, but that rematch would be a lot more competitive in my opinion.
> 
> Machida was the more impressive fighter tonight and should get the rematch against Jones.


People hang onto that first round way too much.

Everybody seems to remember Machida staggering Jones but completely forgets that Jones took Machida down with ease(granted he got back up quickly but he had the cage to help him) and then dropped him standing.

Machida will probably last longer but i doubt it will be competitive.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Thank goodness for ex spurts to correct our perceptions.:laugh:


that must be why I come here


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> I think it says a lot that a 50% Shogun can still do what he does, but I think his days as a contender are over. All of the wars and the surgeries have caught up to him. I don't fault him, and still have a great deal of respect for the man and his career. That said, *I don't know where he goes from here.* There will come a day where he goes the way of Wanderlei Silva if he keeps on like this.


Stephan Bonnar.

A tough SOB, someone who ca stand in front of him and push him .
Should be a bloodbath.


----------



## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Roflcopter said:


> Now after Glover retires Rampage, Shogun will have no more excuses and The Baker can retire him as well.


After Glover beats them both, you think he should get a shot against Jones? I think so, he would be a new challenger with a long winning streak.

I see Shogun doing everything he can to put Glover on his back if they fought. There's a reason that he didn't want to fight him originally. I think that we saw that reason tonight.


----------



## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

limba said:


> Stephan Bonnar.
> 
> A tough SOB, someone who ca stand in front of him and push him .
> Should be a bloodbath.


I could go with that  a big win for Bonnar IMO...match probably will never happen though


----------



## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Yeah that's nice except Shogun also got a takedown and he badly hurt Vera with a flurry of punches.
> 
> Nice try, just admit you don't have an attention span and were to busy listening to Rogan to judge the fight accurately.
> 
> ...



Just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion on the internet, doesn't mean you need to insult them, its very childish. First you basically say that whoever scored the 2nd round for Vera, needs to learn how to score a fight. Not every person who score round for round the same, ten times out of ten. And then you say I have no attention span because of how I scored the fight. Just because Rogan goes crazy for every hook and upper cut, doesn't mean it influences everyone that disagrees with you.


----------



## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Roflcopter said:


> Yeah that's nice except Shogun also got a takedown and he badly hurt Vera with a flurry of punches.
> 
> Nice try, just admit you don't have an attention span and were to busy listening to Rogan to judge the fight accurately.
> 
> ...


You're one bitter kid. 

I gave round 2 to Shogun, but Vera landed lots of good shots, and some really nice combos. It was close. He was pressuring Shogun and being the aggressor for some of the round. It isn't as far-fetched as you seem to think, so why do you insist on pulling attitude on anyone who opposes your exact views and opinions? 

I can't imagine you have many friends....


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Nick_V03 said:


> After Glover beats them both, you think he should get a shot against Jones? I think so, he would be a new challenger with a long winning streak.
> 
> I see Shogun doing everything he can to put Glover on his back if they fought. There's a reason that he didn't want to fight him originally. I think that we saw that reason tonight.



Probably.....LHW is terrible. I mean...who else is out there?

Ryan Bader? :laugh:


----------



## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Spec0688 said:


> *Just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion on the internet, doesn't mean you need to insult them, its very childish.* First you basically say that whoever scored the 2nd round for Vera, needs to learn how to score a fight. Not every person who score round for round the same, ten times out of ten. And then you say I have no attention span because of how I scored the fight. Just because Rogan goes crazy for every hook and upper cut, doesn't mean it influences everyone that disagrees with you.



Just let it go...he's like this after every UFC card.


----------



## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

I think it's funny that when Rua doesn't finish a fight in the first round he didn't train, is over the hill, or is washed up. Imo Vera landed some great combos, did well on the ground, and fought much better than most considered he would. 

I was thoroughly entertained by this fight and think Vera is much better than he was given credit for. The combos he was landing were fantastic and surprising at the same time.

Shogun gassed because he tried to wrestle a wrestler from the opening bell. Vera performed very well for the level of competition he faced. Great fight.


----------



## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

This was kind of painfull to watch. Im really glad that Machida was given a title shot.

I love Shogun too much to let him get slaughtered by Jones again. He is one of the greatest fighters - will,determination,killer instict,heart.
But as a die hard fan I think that he needs to hang the gloves. His body is refusing to work at this pace and his brain is suffering because of that. Taking to much damage in these wars. I think that he trains hard, but his body is just unable to perform anymore.

I dont know how he has it money wise but I hope he earn enough to not need fight anymore.


----------



## Redrum (Jan 30, 2008)

I've never been much of a Vera fan. Most of the time, it seemed like he just wasn't in his fights. I cannot say the same for him tonight. He really fought hard, he fought like he wanted it, I could see his heart.

I really wanted to see him win this one, I was a little crushed to see him go down, but Shogun is top notch, and I have to give him credit for beating someone who was fighting like Brandon was fighting. Congrats, Shogun, I know that was a hard fight to win. I Really respect him for showing respect to Vera afterwards too.

This was perhaps the best UFC event I've seen. I really can't recall a better one, not in a long time. What I saw in that octagon was heart, the sheer heart of fighters, and it was just ****ing brilliant to watch it.

Damn good show, UFC!


----------



## Fedornumber1! (Jun 18, 2008)

I'm so disappointed in Shogun's cardio and even more disappointed that my god damn dvr stopped recording after the 3rd round!


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

RustyRenegade said:


> I think it's funny that when Rua doesn't finish a fight in the first round he didn't train, is over the hill, or is washed up. Imo Vera landed some great combos, did well on the ground, and fought much better than most considered he would.
> 
> I was thoroughly entertained by this fight and* think Vera is much better than he was given credit for. *The combos he was landing were fantastic and surprising at the same time.
> 
> Shogun gassed because he tried to wrestle a wrestler from the opening bell. Vera performed very well for the level of competition he faced. Great fight.


He isn't.


----------



## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

RustyRenegade said:


> I think it's funny that when Rua doesn't finish a fight in the first round he didn't train, is over the hill, or is washed up. Imo Vera landed some great combos, did well on the ground, and fought much better than most considered he would.
> 
> I was thoroughly entertained by this fight and think Vera is much better than he was given credit for. The combos he was landing were fantastic and surprising at the same time.
> 
> Shogun gassed because he tried to wrestle a wrestler from the opening bell. Vera performed very well for the level of competition he faced. Great fight.


I don't think its just because he wrestled with a wrestler, if thats true, thats still coming into a fight in poor shape for what your gameplan requires out of you. If his gameplan was to take him down, which is what it looked like, he should have trained cardio more, and been ready to go 5 rounds. 

There is nothing worse than top athletes in the UFC gassing on their own. Its a different story when your body gets attacked with kicks and punches through the whole fight, and your gas tank goes out like that, but Shogun gassed himself out.

If Shogun ever wants to be a champ again, he needs to train cardio harder. If that Shogun went in against JBJ again, he would be stopped faster than he was in their last fight.

Shogun hasn't looked like his Pride self ever since his first day in the UFC, sure there were glimpses in the Machida fight where he was finally back, but that didn't last very long. Said this for a while now, that UFC Shogun isn't the same, and will never be the Pride Shogun. Hopefully people will come to the same conclusion after this fight, because its just like hoping Chuck had a chin again, hoping Cro Cop still has the left head kick is the cemetery, and right head kick is the hospital. Sometimes its just harder to see your favorite fighter never regain their prime form.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

The lauding of Brandon Vera's US Air Force Wrestling team credentials is probably the most hilariously irrelevant attribution to a fighter other than Karlos Vemola's 6x National Wrestling Championships. :laugh:


Except probably moreso....


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> He isn't.


Yes huh. Everyone thought he would be ko'd in the 1st.



Spec0688 said:


> I don't think its just because he wrestled with a wrestler, if thats so, thats still coming into a fight in poor shape for what your gameplan requires out of you. If his gameplan was to take him down, which is what it looked like, he should have trained cardio more, and been ready to go 5 rounds.
> 
> There is nothing worse than top athletes in the UFC gassing on your own. Its a different story when your body gets attacked with kicks and punches through the whole fight, and your gas tank goes out like that, but Shogun gassed himself out.


He gassed himself out exerting energy to control the fight in the first couple rounds. Saying he should have worked more cardio if he wanted to grapple is somewhat silly. He might have underestimated the ability of Veras ground game, Veras strength in the clinch, or a number of other variables.

The fact of the matter is that Shogun couldn't toss Brandon around and whip his ass like many thought he would and it turned into a much tougher fight than he or any of us expected. I was rooting for Vera but thought he'd be dispatched early and judging by the interviews of both fighters, we share the same opinion.

The Truth was a much tougher opponent than any of us expected and to claim Rua was fighting at less than %100 is a slight to both of these fighters:thumbsdown:


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Anyone else think Shogun tried for the take down because he felt Vera's kicks and wanted nothing to do with it? He didn't do too well standing before he got the take down.

Also Vera got himself KO'd. He dropping his hands and took his eyes off Shogun to put his mouth piece back in and Shogun blitzed him.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> Anyone else think Shogun tried for the take down because he felt Vera's kicks and wanted nothing to do with it? He didn't do too well standing before he got the take down.
> 
> Also Vera got himself KO'd. He dropping his hands and took his eyes off Shogun to put his mouth piece back in and Shogun blitzed him.


I agree on both points


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

RustyRenegade said:


> I was thoroughly entertained by this fight and think Vera is much better than he was given credit for. The combos he was landing were fantastic and surprising at the same time.
> 
> Shogun gassed because he tried to wrestle a wrestler from the opening bell. Vera performed very well for the level of competition he faced. Great fight.


I think this is the first fight where I've seen Vera put everything together, his striking technique has always been very good but he's often folded under pressure, used retarded gameplans in his fights, or just plain not shown up.

Today, he used his kicks to take advantage of his reach and do damage and did a good job of staying cool when he got into trouble and also not over-committing and getting caught in a wild exchange when he had Shogun in trouble. He fought smart, mixed things up well and gave Shogun a pretty tough fight.

To be honest the fight was kinda like what I expected except the other way around, I was expecting Vera to use his wrestling and clinchwork to wear out Shogun and gas him since Shogun's cardio has been questionable since his move to the UFC. The body kicks were as I expected since they're great for knocking the wind of fighters and Vera's kicks are darn good (recall how he folded Randy Couture in half with a body kick).

Shogun won but I'm a bit disappointed with his performance. He's definitely lost a fair bit of speed & explosiveness and well, I don't think I have to say anything about his cardio. You could say he was bailed out by his toughness and instincts, with a bit of luck as well. I think the one thing he did well was realizing that standing & trading was not going to work since he was coming out on the losing end enough times, then adjusting his game to add in takedowns to do damage on the ground and keep Vera honest in the standup. He's had to become a smarter fighter now that his physical skills aren't there anymore.

So a good fight, nice to see Shogun win again but saddened that Pride 2005 Shogun is history for good. And again, props to Brandon for putting in the best fight of his life, I hope to see more of it in his future fights.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I think Rua went for the takedown because he doesn't necessarily enjoy the idea of future brain trauma. Which is precisely where his style of fighting is taking him. I don't think for one second he was intimidated by Vera's striking. In the end, it was clear who the superior striker was. Vera's best vs. Shogun's worst still saw Rua come out on top.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Canadian Psycho said:


> I think Rua went for the takedown because he doesn't necessarily enjoy the idea of future brain trauma. Which is precisely where his style of fighting is taking him. I don't think for one second he was intimidated by Vera's striking. In the end, it was clear who the superior striker was. Vera's best vs. Shogun's worst still saw Rua come out on top.


If you're at the point where you focus your gameplan to avoid brain trauma, regardless if you had wars in the past or not, its time to hang them up.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

I think the takedown was due to Vera's losses to Werdum and Jones and the beating a roided up Thiago gave him that and Shogun has nasty GNP.

He needs to get his cardio in check though.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> I think Rua went for the takedown because he doesn't necessarily enjoy the idea of future brain trauma. Which is precisely where his style of fighting is taking him. I don't think for one second he was intimidated by Vera's striking. In the end, it was clear who the superior striker was. Vera's best vs. Shogun's worst still saw Rua come out on top.


I don't doubt that obviously Shogun is the better striker, but Vera was landing some hard body kicks at the start of that fight and Shogun didn't seem to have an answer. He was winging overhands that weren't coming close to landing and just eating them.


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## ratm (Mar 10, 2012)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> He needs to get his cardio in check though.


amen to that


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

I think Machida has the best chances out of the 2 winners tonight.

However, I see it going the same way as the first fight:
- Machida is giving Jones problems standing
- Jones takes Machida down
- Fight over


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Spec0688 said:


> If you're at the point where you focus your gameplan to avoid brain trauma, regardless if you had wars in the past or not, its time to hang them up.


I don't necessarily disagree. Shogun has been a champion in multiple major organizations. He's participated in some of the greatest fights we fight fans will ever know or see. He will be remembered as a legend of the sport. Rua could walk away from MMA tomorrow without a single regret or dream left unfulfilled. 

Or, he could hang around for one fight too long and wind up like Wanderlei Silva. The fact of the matter is that Rua on his worst day is a threat to 3/4s of the LHW division. The other truth is that he is unlikely to challenge for the LHW championship again. In that respect, he has to ask himself whether these wars remain worth the damage.


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## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Anyone with cardio? Vera's issue wasn't cardio. It was getting his butt whooped by a 30% Shogun. Rua will never challenge Jon Jones, but Shogun on his worst day is still a nightmare for any fighter not the champion.
> 
> James Te Huna didn't exactly look a world beater after his last fight. Though I'd be intrigued to see him and Shogun go at it.


I would argue that Brandon's cardio was pretty shit as well. Both guys were slow, yes Brandon ate some shots that may have influenced his speed and stamina but that's not certain. I think his cardio could have been a lot better. 

I disagree that he is a nightmare for anyone who isn't the champion too. The shogun that showed up tonight would get put away by quite a few of the top 10 LHW's in my opinion.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Perhaps not anyone not named Jon Jones. There are obviously a few who would give Shogun fits. I still see him beating Te Huna, Gustaf, and even Machida. Rua is a bit of a conundrum.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Surprise, surprise, clinch takedown. What did surprise me was the amount of hard shots Vera took. My respect for him has gone up a few notches. 

Shogun could have finished earlier, but Vera wouldn't go out at least not til the 4th. Nice elbows and combos from Vera...2, 3, leg kick. My instructor landed those at will against me and it's just impossible to block. Up down...up down...k...I'm having flashback.

Nice war!


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

man mma fans are becoming more and more like wrestling fans, always hating and bitching on 90% of things...this was an awesome fight

wow what a surprise shogun had cardio problems, he always does but he still keeps coming forward and is always dangerous, its truly amazing how shogun can still fight even gassed and beat up...i remember how JBJ almost killed him and even after being dropped for like the tenth time he was still looking for a leg lock or something you know...shogun is a true warrior and is a tough fight for any man even gassing

that said, hes too crazy nowadays, like i said before this fight...he needs to fight smarter and with more technique, he has great technique he just loves to brawl...i actually expected a war, i expected vera to do pretty well against shogun since shogun got out struck by hendo, vera has all the talent in the world to KO shogun, didnt get it done tonight but he showed amazing heart also.

ppl were underrating vera and overrating shogun, this fight should have been competitive when comparing their skills on paper and not their records..and it was, i thank both these warriors for an amazing fight...no doubt they got UFC some new fans, along with all the other great fights we saw tonight

shogun isnt what he used to be, though this has been obvious since he came to the UFC, but hes still a beast gassed or not, you think its easy to still KO someone in the 4th round after having a war like that and being completley gassed?...no other man can take the beatings shogun takes and still be dangerous, shogun is amazing and deserves our respect

i get that ppl are simply shitting on his cardio wich is shit but after watching a great fight like that thats all you have to say? man i think these hardcore fans are forgetting what its like to just enjoy fights


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## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Perhaps not anyone not named Jon Jones. There are obviously a few who would give Shogun fits. I still see him beating Te Huna, Gustaf, and even Machida. Rua is a bit of a conundrum.


I reckon a fight with Te Huna would be close. But I reckon Gustaf and Lyoto would destroy him. Gustaf would have too much reach and Lyoto would be too quick for the now plodding Shogun.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

I don't really care about Shogun anymore. I used to be a fan of his but I can't support him refusing to train properly and having these sloppy brawls while he is gassed for the entirety of the fight. Vera shouldn't have been able to make it out of the first round with him.


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## AmEagle (Jun 13, 2007)

I was disappointed that Shogun wasn't able to put him away much earlier, and it's clear the knee surgeries have taken a tole on his movement and cardio. I'll always support Shogun no matter what, but he definitely needs to start a tougher training regiment to get his cardio back to where it should be if he hopes to fight for 7 more years like he has stated.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Fun fight, another stoppage on Shogun's hit list. 

Shogun doesn't have poor fitness, I think he had an adrenaline rush in the second round when he had Vera in trouble. Sure he could be more explosive in the later rounds, but he's still aggressive and just scored a KO in the fourth so... Nice to see him on the ground when he's fresh, his positioning and GnP are great.

I think Rua needs to be careful now, he's 21-6 at the moment and he has zero respect for anyone's striking power. He just walked through Vera's strikes and rag dolled him with punches, the guys' chin and punching power are ridiculous. 

He has more wins in him with the right training and fight strategies, but if he loses his next fight I'd like to see him hang 'em up. These wars are fun but might start going the wrong way for Rua.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

What a fun fight! Thank the lord Shogun eventually finished him.

Why are people surprized he took Vera down when he hurt him on the feet? Did anyone see Shogun vs Overeem? That's his style. Flurry>TripTakedownAttempt>Punch>Repeat

Anyone trying to take anything negative away from last night is a TWAT. (IMO)


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

AmEagle said:


> I was disappointed that Shogun wasn't able to put him away much earlier, and it's clear the knee surgeries have taken a tole on his movement and cardio.


Well, if it was Pride rules I'm quite certain that Vera would've been brutally knocked out a bit before halfway into the 1st round. Shogun had him in the perfect position to knee, soccer kick, and stomp him in the head. Fortunately for Vera, you can't knee a grounded fighter in the head and soccer kicks and head stomps are illegal.


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## tight (Aug 26, 2007)

It's too bad Shogun had suspect cardio..I think the above posters were right, he tried to finish early and had an adrenaline rush and came out tired in the second. Great heart but kinda ruins how good he could be.

He's only 30, been through a lot of wars. His cardio looked good against Machida but he slowed down against pretty much everyone else. I hope he can fix it for one final run. 

Happy to see Vera fight hard, there were times that looked as if he could really hurt Shogun if he just kept attacking but I saw some fear in Vera albeit understandably with Shoguns ability to keep moving forward. Still, looking forward to see Vera fight again.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

My heart was in my throat from the second round on, but this is just how Shogun fights now. He either wrecks people early, or makes it a sloppy dirty war relying on his chin and power.

This was exactly how the Hendo fight would have gone if it wasn't for Hendo's chin being just as good as Shogun's.

The last two Shogun fights have been absolutely thrilling. Will he beat Jones? No probably not. But he can still make an exciting fight.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

You know it's funny sometimes about how people say such and such has poor cardio or this or that. Now, it's no secret he has struggled in the past, but after watching the five round Epic war for the ages against Hendo it pretty much dismissed that notion. His style of fight is very labour intensive. He basically wings it and goes for the KO and that's exactly what happened plus those body kicks from Vera prolly didn't help.

For those of you who may or may not have trained before try this exercise. Hit a punching bag your hardest with combinations for ONLY 30 seconds. Lets see how winded you are after that. We usually do it for a minute then trade off and the result is me passing out. It's worse than sprints. After that maybe you'll have a better perspective on how it's like out there.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

I dont think Shogun has poor cardio, but I do think all the surgeries have taken a toll on his speed. even when he wins decisevley he always looks really slow.

Jones would destroy him if they ever get to fight again.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

It's so odd to have a guy that'd be favoured above pretty much everyone else in the division, but also gets zero chance against the champ. Says a lot about Bones.

Shogun, even the slow plodding Shogun, is a destroyer. At least while his chin is still invincible, I'd have a hard time picking anyone other than Bones and Machida over him. At this point in time, I'd pick Machida winning the rubber match and Shogun winning a rematch with Hendo.

He'll always be top 5, fringe top 3, but like others have sad, injuries and surgeries have taken their toll. 

After wars with Hendo and Vera, and the beating he took from Jones, I can't see his chin sticking around for too many more of those types of fights either.


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## cookiefritas (Jun 17, 2011)

Shogun did good in this fight. He put some solid shots on Vera from the get go, Vera just somehow managed to stay conscious in this fight. Deep down you guys know that there is a good chance Machida/Bader would had gone to sleep much earlier had they taken the shots Vera took throughout the fight.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

K R Y said:


> It's so odd to have a guy that'd be favoured above pretty much everyone else in the division, but also gets zero chance against the champ. Says a lot about Bones.
> 
> Shogun, even the slow plodding Shogun, is a destroyer. At least while his chin is still invincible, I'd have a hard time picking anyone other than Bones and Machida over him. At this point in time, I'd pick Machida winning the rubber match and Shogun winning a rematch with Hendo.
> 
> ...


I agree with your sentiments other than the rubber match with Machida.

I still think he beats Machida 7/8 X out of 10. Styles definitely make fights.

I'm really surprised by a lot of rubbish comments in this forum. Shogun is very similar fighter to the 2005 champ. Difference is surgeries, but no stomps/kicks on the ground. People don't realize how intensive labor wise Shogun's style is. He's an absolute beast, chin is made from iron and a will to go to the bitter end of a war.

Shogun beats pretty much anyone not named Jones... It's sad to see a lot of people make excuses and say he's done. He isn't.

Edit- Also want to add that Machida doesn't deserve a shot against Jones. I say rubber match of Shogun/Machida III before the shot. Jones still finished Machida and Rua, but I want both to get another fight in before a title shot. Also on the Bader issue, his chin is suspect and Shogun would have done the same thing... put his lights out.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Shoguns gas tank was embarrassing against Vera. 


Sent from my iPhone using VerticalSports


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## XxDEATHSHEADxX (Jan 3, 2011)

I just don't get it.

Shogun is an animal. Hands down one of (IMO the most) exciting fighter in MMA. Even when gassed his fights are amazing.

He didn't squeak past Vera, despite Rogan's story telling. He destroyed him. He destroyed him the whole fight, and his knock out was brutal and especially violent.

Vera is larger than Shogun, a strong striker, and he got handled, devastatingly.

What did Machida do again? KO'ed a guy that Tito Ortiz KO'ed in the 1st round after he went with the mindless Gorilla charge technique against a very precise striker? Wow. I can see why you all think Machida's performance was so superior and Shogun, barely having a mark on his face after 4 rounds, was lackluster in putting the Truth to sleep with a combo straight out of a video game.
/sarcasm


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

If you think he breezed through Vera you must have been watching the wrong fight. Shogun was getting caught plenty and gassed pretty hard. Yes he is exciting and yes he got the finish, but that was not even close to the same Shogun that took Machida out.


Sent from my iPhone using VerticalSports


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Big_Charm said:


> I agree with your sentiments other than the rubber match with Machida.
> 
> I still think he beats Machida 7/8 X out of 10. Styles definitely make fights.
> 
> ...


Shogun can beat any fighter at 205 which is great, but he also will never win three fights in a row because he can also lose to any fighter at 205. It's not disrespect it's the reality of the fighter. It's easy to love a front runner or a GOAT, being proud of a fighter and supporting when he loses that's what makes you a true fan.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Big_Charm said:


> I agree with your sentiments other than the rubber match with Machida.
> 
> I still think he beats Machida 7/8 X out of 10. Styles definitely make fights.
> 
> ...


You mean except Jones and Hendo, and then there's Machida in the first fight and then Griffin as well.

Shogun is 5-4 in the UFC, with 4 of those wins being Liddell (retirement fight, not impressive) Coleman (Shogun looked like crap and Coleman sucks in today's MMA), Griffin (a guy who previously beat Shogun and isn't the same fighter who won the title), and Vera, who although put up a much better fight than I gave him credit for, is a middle of the road fighter maybe slightly above average. I also realize Shogun had weak cardio going into the Griffin fight, but that's not really an excuse considering he seems to be coming in weak cardio in most of his fights in the UFC.

Shogun is a great fighter, but since he has been in the UFC, outside of the Machida fights, he has not been that impressive, he really has not, and I'd say that area was his "peak" in the UFC and he probably won't reach that way again.

Hopefully I'm wrong and he ends up coming back strong someday cause I'm a big Shogun fan, but the reality is he hasn't looked that impressive in the UFC and 4 out of 5 of his wins are far from impressive, against fighters who are far from impressive.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

aerius said:


> Well, if it was Pride rules I'm quite certain that Vera would've been brutally knocked out a bit before halfway into the 1st round. Shogun had him in the perfect position to knee, soccer kick, and stomp him in the head. Fortunately for Vera, you can't knee a grounded fighter in the head and soccer kicks and head stomps are illegal.


And if I had wheels I'd be a wagon. What a completely irrelevant post. 

I loved this fight and hope Vera realizes that he can perform this well in every fight from here on out. I don't care how Rua supposedly underperformed tbh. So what if he doesn't get a title shot again, go out and win some fans with what you do and make them forget your past performances.

A matchup with Kingspoo or whatever he calls himself could be fun:thumbsup:


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

M.C said:


> You mean except Jones and Hendo, and then there's Machida in the first fight and then Griffin as well.
> 
> Shogun is 5-4 in the UFC, with 4 of those wins being Liddell (retirement fight, not impressive) Coleman (Shogun looked like crap and Coleman sucks in today's MMA), Griffin (a guy who previously beat Shogun and isn't the same fighter who won the title), and Vera, who although put up a much better fight than I gave him credit for, is a middle of the road fighter maybe slightly above average. I also realize Shogun had weak cardio going into the Griffin fight, but that's not really an excuse considering he seems to be coming in weak cardio in most of his fights in the UFC.
> 
> ...


Good post, I have a few thoughts on guys you mentioned.

Yes, Shogun lost to Forrest but blitzed him in the rematch. The Hendo fight I thought should have been a draw, considering how Shogun finished (I'm not mad about it but it should never have been a unanimous dec. more like split or draw). Lastly, Shogun KO'd Machida in a rematch and I believe (most also do to) that Shogun won their first match. A loss is a loss but the damn refs need to open their eyes sometimes and there's been a lot of questionable or should I say 'favorable' gifts.

The thing about the Machida fight is Shogun won't gas against someone he doesn't have to grapple... and the reality is, when Shogun hits you with those bombs, more likely than not you're going down.

I too, hope you're right about Shogun... I like seeing the guys of the old guard come through big. :thumb02:


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