# Is Greg Jackson's camp cheating



## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Ok first of all I am not going to take strong stand either side on this at this point. But after the nate fight I know the issue has come up. 

I was just wondering how many people are on each side and why. 


Keep it civilized too guys.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

Intelligent people know that they are not cheating. All GSP haters and disgruntled BJ Penn fans will vote yes though.


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## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

We've already seen from his gameplans that they are willing to do anything to win. So while, I'm not saying they are definitely cheating, it wouldn't surprise me to find out they were bending, if not outright breaking rules.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

Firstly, to address the Marquardt issue:

Hell no, sweating in the locker room so you're "slick" is not greasing. If its a natural body fluid, it ain't grease. Its called strategy, and a damn smart and simple one!

ON the main issue. No. There has been no cheating out of that camp. Just strategies, intelligent, highly thought out strategies. That are simple enough to work, and complex enough not to be countered easily. Ah, the taste of smartness!


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

No... unless you have "BJ Penn" tattooed on your ass...


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

No- and if you were at the Fight Night like I was and actually saw what took place in the octagon immediately after the Marquardt-Palhares fight you'd know that even bringing this up after that fight is either utterly stupid, a lover of silly conspiracy theories based on untruths or just grossly misinformed.


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## WestCoastPoutin (Feb 27, 2007)

No.

But I understand that many BJ fans want/wanted to find any excuse why one of their favorite fighters would lose soooo badly. It makes sense to not rationally think it through because of favoritism. 

If you think Nate is a cheat because he knew to be sweaty during the first couple of minutes, well, there probably is no reasoning with you.

Is a BJJ practitioner a cheat because he makes sure to be bone dry before a fight?

"Hey! Where's your warm-up sweat! You cheater! You should be sweating more!"


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

I've long considered BJ an egotistical, annoying, underachieving prick, but you'd have to be blind and delusional to believe that GSP's corner didn't grease. 

What amazes me about the Jackson camp is how frequently their fighters get caught, and how blatantly they cheat. 

If they're pulling the type of shenanigans they do in front of the camera, it leads one to suspect that much more is likely taking place behind the scenes. 

This win at all costs mentality where only the outcome matters is truly disgusting. 

Having said all of that, it would be naive to believe that Jackson fighters are alone in their tactics. Cheating is widespread (PED's, greasing), it's just jackson fighters are much more obvious about it. 

Without effective methods of policing cheating and cheats, expect it to go on non-stop.


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## TheCleeM (Jul 9, 2008)

do i really need to find the link to the paul harris apology thread? there is no reoccuring theme because his accusation was proven wrong, rebuked, and quickly apologized for. 

the first and only debate is gsp against bj... and i hope i'm not the only one that think that horse is dead.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

How frequently DO Jackson's fighters 'get caught'? If you don't mind me asking.

We have the incident with GSP (open to debate)... and...? Unless we call a sole incident 'frequent' these days


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## WestCoastPoutin (Feb 27, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> What amazes me about the Jackson camp is how frequently their fighters get caught, and how blatantly they cheat.


perhaps I spoke/wrote too soon.

What are all these incidences you're talking about.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

WestCoastPoutin said:


> perhaps I spoke/wrote too soon.
> 
> What are all these incidences you're talking about.


Pssssst... I'll let you in on a little secret... they don't exist.

We in the real world call that 'blowing things out of proportion' :thumb03:


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

WestCoastPoutin said:


> perhaps I spoke/wrote too soon.
> 
> What are all these incidences you're talking about.


No, you didn't. Just wait and get ready to laugh!


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

TheCleeM said:


> do i really need to find the link to the paul harris apology thread? there is no reoccuring theme because his accusation was proven wrong, rebuked, and quickly apologized for.
> 
> the first and only debate is gsp against bj... and i hope i'm not the only one that think that horse is dead.


*Matt Hughes, Sean Sherk, BJ Penn, Jason Mayhem Miller and Ken Florian* have all accused GSP of greasing. 
*
The Gracies* have openly accused Greg Jackson himself of encouraging this practice. 

*Shane Carwin* *is also alleged to have taken steroids.* An allegation which is about as debatable as whether Barry Bonds took the clear. 
*
Marquardt has tested positive* for steroids. 

Here's *"Stitch's"* take: either GSP's corner was inexperienced or deliberately cheating. Obviously, GSP's corner was NOT inexperienced, leaving only one logical conclusion:






Here's a video showing GSP being warned for cheating: 

1. punching in the back of the head after endless warnings, 
2. for grabbing the shorts, and of course for 
3. the illegal use of vaseline:






*Chuck Liddell, Frank Mir and Dana White* all stated on the record that they saw vaseline being applied to GSP by his corner. 

*Ceaser Gracie:* "Jackson camp has to stop greasing."

*NSAC Exec. Direct Kizer* is also quoted as stating that BJ was basically screwed, in more polite language. 

*Sherk: *_"ha ha, he *(GSP) was very slippery.* Musta h*ad some oil on* or something. I couldn't grab him for nothin.'"_


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

There you go,* Canadian Psycho, Westcostpoutin, Squirrelfighter, TheCleeM,* and the others who are asking for evidence.

Now you've got:

1. indisputable video evidence of GSP cheating by grabbing on the shorts, punching in the back of the head and of course by the open use of vaseline. 

2. There is NSAC documentary evidence with eyewitness testimony from the UFC owner Dana White, champions Mir and Liddell. 

3. NSAC Director Kizer explicitly states that GSP cheated

4. Nate Marquardt with a positive test for steroids.

5. Shane Carwin alleged to have used steroids (indisputable, since he is 6' tall, weighs 285 lbs. yet probably only 5% body fat)

6. Ken Florian, Jason Miller, Sean Sherk and Matt Hughes have all accused GSP of greasing. 

7. Ceaser Gracie states that Jackson fighters must stop greasing. 

Obviously, this is all a conspiracy to destroy the credibility of Jackson fighters and tinfoil stuff.

In reality, you nuthuggers simply won't accept the fact that your so-called heroes are actually cheaters who will stoop to the lowest levels for a win.

*
edit:* and no, I don't give a shit about BJ Penn. Like I stated before for those of you who lack basic reading comprehension skills, BJ to me, is an annoying brat who also happens to be outrageously talented. 

I don't consider him to be likeable and have long complained about his douchey behavior.

Having said that, the GSP/Marquardt/Greg Jackson nut hugging has now reached the point of delusion. Get a grip guys.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

I´m more interested in a poll for knowing how many people out there actually sweat from the legs, cause i know i don´t, at least not to a level where it actually begins to feel slippery.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

In a fight isn't it the goal to come to a fight as skilled and conditioned as possible and to use every possible advantage to win? In my opinion the solution to good UFC fights is less rules, not more.

Basically I'm saying at the most elite level of competition people will naturally look for any edge to win. They will also assume that their opponent is bending every rule in their favor as well. Until you are busted for breaking the rules, you are playing the game exactly as intended.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Fieos said:


> In a fight isn't it the goal to come to a fight as skilled and conditioned as possible and to use every possible advantage to win? In my opinion the solution to good UFC fights is less rules, not more.
> 
> Basically I'm saying at the most elite level of competition people will naturally look for any edge to win. They will also assume that their opponent is bending every rule in their favor as well. Until you are busted for breaking the rules, you are playing the game exactly as intended.


Translation: Greg Jackson fighters cheat. 

btw, do you include greasing, oil bathing, grabbing the trunks, punching in the back of the head and taking steroids to be examples of "skill and conditioning?!?"

And no, the goal is not to "use every possible advantage" to win. If this were true, fighters could bring knives and guns into the octagon with them.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

The only thing you came even remotely close to showing anyone is that GSP was caught greasing, which is something we all readily admitted to, be the aforementioned event an accident, on purpose, or whatever. Everything else you put forth is entirely circumstantial. Greg Jackson cheats because the Gracies say he does? lol, I'd like to see that hold up in a court of law. As for grabbing the shorts and punches to the back of the head... yes... actions strictly performed by members of the Jackson camp and hardly a common phenomenon in MMA. As is the case with steroids... all Greg Jackson's doing. Completely isolated. It's not as though we've seen this happen with any other fighter outside of his camp.

You're reaching. Again, you only provided real evidence for the events surrounding GSP's fight with BJ, which I reiterate no one is debating. Everything else is pure propaganda on your part. I couldn't care less about Carwin, Marquardt, or Greg Jackson, so I'm hardly a nut-hugger. Thanks for being original, by the way. I simply propose that you get your jollies by glorifying otherwise non-existent situations because you're desperate for attention. It's sad, yet entertaining at the same time. I mean, if the Gracies say it's true then it MUST be!


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## Rastaman (Feb 25, 2010)

GSP is the only fighter that I think was actually greasing (how could anyone not think he was??).

But is his camp cheating? No not at all.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

You asked for evidence that the Jackson camp was cheating, and you got it. In spades. 

Now you are reduced to calling out unnamed other fighters and camps for doing the same thing. 

That's just pathetic. 



Canadian Psycho said:


> The only thing you came even remotely close to showing anyone is that GSP was caught greasing, which is something we all readily admitted to, be the aforementioned event an accident, on purpose, or whatever. Everything else you put forth is entirely circumstantial. Greg Jackson cheats because the Gracies say he does? lol, I'd like to see that hold up in a court of law. As for grabbing the shorts and punches to the back of the head... yes... actions strictly performed by members of the Jackson camp and hardly a common phenomenon in MMA. As is the case with steroids... all Greg Jackson's doing. Completely isolated. It's not as though we've seen this happen with any other fighter outside of his camp.
> 
> You're reaching. Again, you only provided real evidence for the events surrounding GSP's fight with BJ, which I reiterate no one is debating. Everything else is pure propaganda on your part. I couldn't care less about Carwin, Marquardt, or Greg Jackson, so I'm hardly a nut-hugger. Thanks for being original, by the way. I simply propose that you get your jollies by glorifying otherwise non-existent situations because you're desperate for attention. It's sad, yet entertaining at the same time. I mean, if the Gracies say it's true then it MUST be!


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## WestCoastPoutin (Feb 27, 2007)

So...



Who else is really angry here?


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Rastaman said:


> GSP is the only fighter that I think was actually greasing (how could anyone not think he was??).
> 
> But is his camp cheating? No not at all.


Marquardt has tested positive for steroids.

Ceaser Gracie is on the record accusing Greg Jackson himself of encouraging greasing. 

Carwin is facing steroids use allegations. At 6', 285 lbs. extremely lean and ripped, I find the accusations plausible.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

WestCoastPoutin said:


> So...
> 
> 
> 
> Who else is really angry here?


As I expected, zero evidence, zero logic, no argument whatsoever. 

Exactly what I've come to expect of you, sir!


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## WestCoastPoutin (Feb 27, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> As I expected, zero evidence, zero logic, no argument whatsoever.
> 
> Exactly what I've come to expect of you, sir!


Its an online forum. 

You dont strike me as a rational person.

I'll save my energy.

You think they are cheaters.

I dont. 

the end.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

WestCoastPoutin said:


> So...
> 
> 
> 
> Who else is really angry here?


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

WestCoastPoutin said:


> Its an online forum.
> 
> You dont strike me as a rational person.
> 
> ...


Dude, you are a joke. You have zero evidence, no logic, no analytical skills whatsoever. The only "arguments" you provide are silly schoolgirl taunts!

The difference between you and I is that I can justify my claims with evidence, and you can't. 

Bring some evidence or GTFO.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Firstly, to address the Marquardt issue:
> 
> Hell no, sweating in the locker room so you're "slick" is not greasing. If its a natural body fluid, it ain't grease. Its called strategy, and a damn smart and simple one!
> 
> ON the main issue. No. There has been no cheating out of that camp. Just strategies, intelligent, highly thought out strategies. That are simple enough to work, and complex enough not to be countered easily. Ah, the taste of smartness!


...Took the words right out of my mouth, you hit every point. It only makes sense to work up a sweat anyway, especially against a top level Jiu Jitsu guy. I think Palhares was just surprised that Nate escaped so quickly. Mardquart is no rookie and he knew that any submission attempt he'd have to slip out in a blink...


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

Canadian Psycho said:


> How frequently DO Jackson's fighters 'get caught'? If you don't mind me asking.
> 
> We have the incident with GSP (open to debate)... and...? Unless we call a sole incident 'frequent' these days


...Maybe being called Jackson's (Submission fighting) has something to do with it? I'm sure they train for submission escapes. No conspiracy here...


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

No! If their was grease on Marquardt leg then the commission would have nailed his ass right on the spot.

As far as Nate testing positive, do I need to remind people that was over 5 years ago. He tested clean ever since. He's not a repeat offender like Josh Barnett.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> You asked for evidence that the Jackson camp was cheating, and you got it. In spades.
> 
> Now you are reduced to calling out unnamed other fighters and camps for doing the same thing.
> 
> That's just pathetic.


You claimed Jackson's camp cheats because its members grab shorts and occasionally punch to the back of the head. By your logic every mixed martial artist to ever put on a pair of gloves is guilty of cheating. You cornered the market on pathetic long before I came along. Your posts speak to this more than I ever could, and any rationally thinking human being will see it. 

Buh-bye now.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> You claimed Jackson's camp cheats because its members grab shorts and occasionally punch to the back of the head. By your logic every mixed martial artist to ever put on a pair of gloves is guilty of cheating. You cornered the market on pathetic long before I came along. Your posts speak to this more than I ever could, and any rationally thinking human being will see it. Buh-bye now.


Sure, no problem. Have a good night hugging GSP's nuts.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> Sure, no problem. Have a good night hugging GSP's nuts.


How the hell is he nuthugging? All you're doing is shaking things up. Marquardt didn't cheat against Palhares, GSP probably was greased, Carwin most likely is guilty of steroid use. 

Lets look at it from a broader perspective. There are a great many MMA fighters who have at one point tested positive for steroids, some in the UFC, most notably Vitor Belfort and Chris Leban. I can't think of anyone else off the top of my head other than GSP accused of greasing with evidence. 

In the lower eschelons of MMA I would be very surprised if any less than 10% tested positive for steroids, this is all IMO here. And as for greasing, if a fighter is desperate, I can believe it happens all the time. The point of this being, Jackson Submission Fighting hasn't cornered the market on anything you claim every one of their fighters are doing.

...Now that I think of it the UFC should ban all of those Jackson's degenerates, screw the WW champ and top 10 MWs and HWs. F*ck them. They possibly may have at some point cheated! (That's me being you there)


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

Squirrelfighter said:


> How the hell is he nuthugging? All you're doing is shaking things up. Marquardt didn't cheat against Palhares, GSP probably was greased, Carwin most likely is guilty of steroid use.
> 
> Lets look at it from a broader perspective. There are a great many MMA fighters who have at one point tested positive for steroids, some in the UFC, most notably Vitor Belfort and Chris Leban. I can't think of anyone else off the top of my head other than GSP accused of greasing with evidence.
> 
> ...


Hell, while your at it why don't we ban everyone that fought in PRIDE. Japanese didn't do any drug testing so it must by true they were all taking steroids. Who care if Shogun test came out clean and their is no real proof he ever took steroids. The UFC should strip that title from him and throw his ass out the door. Strikeforce should do the same with Overeem.:thumb02:


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## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

Personally I believe Jackson gives a blind eye to greasing. There is substantial evidence that GSP was greasing and the fact that many fighters have made the claim that he is greasing leads to the simple conclusion that there is a possibility that other fighters are also greasing under his watch.

From watching the Marquardt fight a few times it is quite obvious that he was just sweaty and not greased.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Blitzz said:


> Personally I believe Jackson gives a blind eye to greasing. There is substantial evidence that GSP was greasing and the fact that many fighters have made the claim that he is greasing leads to the simple conclusion that there is a possibility that other fighters are also greasing under his watch.
> 
> From watching the Marquardt fight a few times it is quite obvious that he was just sweaty and not greased.


There was no rule that said grease on your body isn't allowed. The rule only stated that "excessive" grease was not allowed. GSP was checked and they determined he didn't use an excessive amount of grease on his body. Pretty cut and dry.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, and he was dried off with a towl. Also Marquardt was checked as well and cleared. I'd say two checks clears anybody!:thumbsup:


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

I don't think Greg Jackson's camp cheats. I do think they produce very technical fighters who might "fight smart" now and then.


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## Pound&Mound (Dec 10, 2007)

Yikes lots of BJ fan boi nut hangers feeling sour. 

It doesn't matter though, as Frankie Edgar didn't grease and he wholloped BJ the whole time even when it hit the mat! lol

GSP would've won anyways greased or not.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

GSP is so sweet as pie. Oh Oh you can ave a rematch anyime. He is a cheating Fuc**** and Greg Jackson is the same. They know it, the UFC knows it and anyone who watched the fight knows it. The reason they got away with it is because the sport is still young and they didnt have the proper regulations in place, nor the proper checks as stitch pointed out. 

Fair play to Michaelangelo for demostrating the evidence of whats going on. Every sport has cheats. Cristiano ronaldo is a cheating diving little ***** in football, but he is still one of the best players in the world physically and technically. I watched a big rugby league game last week, in the final minute with a fast break a guy was pulled down off the ball so he couldnt get a pass and score to win the game. The guy who pulled him down is probably the best stand off in the country. Some boxers make it their aim to clash heads with guys who are prone to cuts. Some of the best cricketers in the world are under a big investigation for match fixing. 
The sporting world is full of cheats and they are part and parcel of sports. 

The thing is, its all about legacy. GSP will sit on his porch when he is 90 years old and he will regret what he has done, and jackson will regret what he's done too. Because their memory is tainted. In my eyes GSP can never be a great man after that incident. He deserves nothing, and he has no honor. He always talks about legacy, well George greasing is your legacy and you will be remembered for it just as much as your athleticism and wrestling ability. . 
Sometimes I just remember things that I did in my life that weren't very good, or lets say bad things, and when I do, I feel like shi*

I'm not a fan of BJ at all, and if the guy had any brains he would have pursued the greasing thing properly down legal channels. Although I would say Senor White played his part in getting BJ to shut up


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## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> There you go,* Canadian Psycho, Westcostpoutin, Squirrelfighter, TheCleeM,* and the others who are asking for evidence.
> 
> Now you've got:
> 
> ...


Alright. You have a point. You've taken every bad thing, bad rumor, and improper grammar that GSP and the people have done that have ever had anything to do with Greg Jackson and thrown a huge blanket over top of all of them.

Unfortunately the more you talk, the less anyone is going to even pay attention to anything that you're saying. I'll break down a little bit just to show you how ridiculous you look.

_1. indisputable video evidence of GSP cheating by grabbing on the shorts, punching in the back of the head and of course by the open use of vaseline._ 

Have you ever been in even one fight before? If you have been, I bet you didn't hit exactly where you aimed it every time. How many guys in MMA have done that? They're all cheats. How many guys have grabbed the cage with a toe or pinky? All of them CHEATS How many guys have grabbed the trunks while trying to get ahold of their opponent? All big time CHEATS. 
I haven't even got through your first point and you look ridiculous. Let's focus on some things that are out of the ordinary or push the envelope too much.

Vaseline, GSP was busted as said by the commission, and eye witnesses. Not the first guy to do it, not the last either unless the commissions get their act together. Until they clamp down on it, its not going away. Face the reality. By no means am I justifying it but slinging mud in GSPs face and not EVERY other guy that has done it is a joke.

Steroids, Carwin has been implicated in a steroid scandal now from years ago, BEFORE he was with Greg Jacksons camp. Makes your point not valid. If you wanna start pointing fingers that have done steroids in the past at all, start the list and see where that takes you.

_6. Ken Florian, Jason Miller, Sean Sherk and Matt Hughes have all accused GSP of greasing. _

You've assembly a list of outstanding examples of trustworthy people. Kenny Florian was so mad at GSP for cheating apparently that he decided to start training with him. Sean Sherk was busted for steroid use but obviously a great guy to use as an example. Mayhem will say anything to stay in the limelight, see every radio show/appearance that he does including his fights. Matt Hughes got his ass kicked by GSP twice, once by dual submission where GSP must have wiped all the grease off before applying both submission holds.

_7. Ceaser Gracie states that Jackson fighters must stop greasing. _

As far as I know, only 1 guy has been busted, 1 time. Jackson has a lot of fighters in his camp, sure seems to be a strong allegation without hard proof. But who needs proof when you have hearsay. Would we really be talking about this if Palhares hadn't freaked about a hold that Nate was clearly trained to pop out of at the first sign of trouble? Probably not, but at least you can get your one-sided opinion out there and piss people off that think these rumors and allegations are terrible for the sport.

Anyways I'm tired of it and my anger has burnt off now but basically the point of all this is that you can easily stack the deck against anyone. Just use some truth, a bunch of half truths and a bunch of hearsay and you can make an outstanding case to anyone who doesn't pay enough attention to what is going on. If you're going to have an opinion on here that people are going to listen to, maybe use just a little bit of common sense before you try and discredit everyone that you don't like.


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

No question GSP was getting greased up with vaseline in the first fight (yes he cheated) enhancing his JJ defense, he didn't need to. 2nd fight he didn't grease up and just beat up BJ.

Marquardt came in with a good strategy - just have a good sweat before the fight, that was fine. Hell maybe fighters might stop taking showers before a fight and pump up humidifiers while they sleep to keep their sebaceous glands pumping out oil before a fight - poor hygeine but not cheating.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

MrObjective said:


> No question GSP was getting greased up with vaseline in the first fight (yes he cheated) enhancing his JJ defense, he didn't need to. 2nd fight he didn't grease up and just beat up BJ.
> 
> Marquardt came in with a good strategy - just have a good sweat before the fight, that was fine. Hell maybe fighters might stop taking showers before a fight and pump up humidifiers while they sleep to keep their sebaceous glands pumping out oil before a fight - poor hygeine but not cheating.


Actually no, he did not cheat and if you could read the rules you would know that. Nowhere in the rules did it state greasing was not allowed. It said EXCESSIVE grease was not allowed. He was checked and cleared as well as being wiped off.

It's insane how much people think greasing effected the fight. Your body already excretes sweat along with natural oils that become very slippery on their own. If you guys think adding a little vaseline to that mixture makes it so much more slippery that it provides an advantage, then you're stupid. You're also stupid if you think the grease from a fighters face wont end up somewhere else. When you have someone on the ground, and you're pressing your head into them, grease will inevitably get on them and vice versa.

I'm also tired of people saying GSP cheated like it's a fact when in reality he was cleared by the ref and the commission. If you think that's cheating, then you're more of a BJ nuthugger than himself.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well one thing you have to remember is that GSP wasn't greased on the area where it would affect the fight. He was greased on his back and there wasn't that much grease on his chest. So either way the fight would've been affected because of that greasing!:thumbsdown:


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## mohammadmoofty (Mar 26, 2010)

michelangelo said:


> 5. Shane Carwin alleged to have used steroids (indisputable, since he is 6' tall, weighs 285 lbs. yet probably only 5% body fat)


shane carwin definately isn't 5%, more like 10-15%.


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> Well one thing you have to remember is that GSP wasn't greased on the area where it would affect the fight. He was greased on his back and there wasn't that much grease on his chest. So either way the fight would've been affected because of that greasing!:thumbsdown:


I'm sure greasing your back/shoulders would help greatly against the rubberguard BJ was attempting over and over.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

But like we just said he was wiped down with a towel and cleared to fight. We've been saying that. Plus an investigation by the commission at the insistance of BJ concluded that nothing was used!:thumbsdown:


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

MikeHawk said:


> Actually no, he did not cheat and if you could read the rules you would know that. Nowhere in the rules did it state greasing was not allowed. It said EXCESSIVE grease was not allowed. He was checked and cleared as well as being wiped off.
> 
> It's insane how much people think greasing effected the fight. Your body already excretes sweat along with natural oils that become very slippery on their own. If you guys think adding a little vaseline to that mixture makes it so much more slippery that it provides an advantage, then you're stupid. You're also stupid if you think the grease from a fighters face wont end up somewhere else. When you have someone on the ground, and you're pressing your head into them, grease will inevitably get on them and vice versa.
> 
> I'm also tired of people saying GSP cheated like it's a fact when in reality he was cleared by the ref and the commission. If you think that's cheating, then you're more of a BJ nuthugger than himself.


Ok he got cleared, he lubricated his torso it's right there on video for anyone to see - i have eyes and he added lubricants to make his torso slippery, I watched that video. Just don't get caught and get cleared doesn't mean you didn't do something. It's more hugging of the nuts of GSP here than BJ - who cares this is old news.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Regarding the evidence of fighters claiming GSP greased, am I the only one that got the impression Sherk was being sarcastic and joking about GSP being greased? I don't seriously believe he was accusing GSP or anything with that comment. The term 'slippery' when it applies to defending takedowns is used quite a bit, doesn't mean he was referring to grease, and then the oil comment definitely sounded sarcastic.

There's video evidence of the cornerman for GSP applying vaseline to his shoulders, but I honestly think it was just a stupid mistake from the cornerman. I don't think there was any malicious intent to cheat there. I believe he simply forgot he had the vaseline on his hands. It would have been a miniscule amount anyway, it's not like they were pouring pots of vaseline on Georges's back. The examples in the 2nd round of BJ's guard 'slipping' down have been explained before. As soon as BJ tried to utilise the high guard, GSP would posture up and force BJ to lower his guard. It wasn't slipping due to the grease, it was GSP recognising BJ was looking to control his posture and reacting to it.

There would have been vaseline on his shoulders, that's hard to deny. But did that tiny amount of vaseline have an effect on the result of the match-up? Not in the slightest. GSP dominated BJ Penn from bell to bell. A little bit of vaseline on his shoulders and right side of his back did not at all impact the fight.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

demoman993 said:


> Alright. You have a point. You've taken every bad thing, bad rumor, and improper grammar that GSP and the people have done that have ever had anything to do with Greg Jackson and thrown a huge blanket over top of all of them.
> 
> Unfortunately the more you talk, the less anyone is going to even pay attention to anything that you're saying. I'll break down a little bit just to show you how ridiculous you look.
> 
> ...


I nominate this for post of the year. Thank you for showing him how dumb he is so I didn't have to.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

There are different issues with each fighter...

Nate didn't cheat, but as far as I'm concerned it's as bad a gameplan as planning to cut your opponent to win by doctor stoppage. Trying to be slippery is pretty damn low. He was planning on escaping Rousimar's submissions not by skill but by being slippery as hell. It's legal, but that's about it.

GSP was obviously cheating, there's no denying that. I'm not sure if GSP himself was aware of it but it's clear as daylight. There are videos of Phil nurse rubbing his chest with vaseline and some officials actually had to wipe the vaseline off between rounds because his artificial greasiness was against the rules. 

Carwin has supposedly bought lots of steroids but since then nothing else has really happened to him... we'll see how this turns out.

For the record, I don't blame GSP or Nate. Instead I blame Greg Jackson.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

It appears if you make longer posts with heresy over actual facts it's more valid... As long as you bold and post opinions on youtube as evidence of course. jackson is a joke!


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

GSP, I have no doubt at all he has cheated on multiple occasions, it was proved during the BJ Penn fight, the footage in that fight is beyond question despite the commissions decision, and there is a clear massage technique his corner man was using to rub the Vaseline on his chest and back, that same massage technique can be witnessed on many of his previous fights including the Serra fight when he won the title, I believe he was been greased every time they rub him down that way in every fight.

Nate situation, I believe Nate, I think the heat is on that camp so much thanks to there past actions of cheating using grease, that they cant risk greasing there fighters any more so they had to think about other legal ways of creating a slippy fighter and are now in fact sweating them up, which is not illegal so you cant really deny against it.

As for Steroids and Carwin or any other Jackson camp fighter, I dont believe they would condone steroids, if Carwin did take them then I believe he did it off his own back.

As far as Palhares is concerned every single guy he faces from now on is going to try and get there legs sweating as much as possible before each fight, he needs to counter this by wrapping his own legs to give he more grip which is also legal as some BJJ guys like Soti have done before in the past.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

There is no reason to believe that his camp is cheating. The GSP incident might be the only questionable thing.


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

:sarcastic07:


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Baby oil baths the night before the fight :thumbsdown:. IMO if you have several fighters complaining about one camp and knowing that camp's track record on *gaining every possible advantage within the rules*, then the answer is obvious. 

But at the same time I admit I am biased because I hate Greg Jackson 

FTR the baby oil baths are insider speculation, not verified fact. I might be biased, but I'm not blind. That being said, to me at least, judging by that camps history it wouldn't surprise me if it was true.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

I actually don't get involved with this topic as it's been brought up in the past but i found the Palhares incident interesting... 

Palhares seemed so convinced that he actually looked away from Nate during the fight while he was on his back and Nate was loose to get his own corners attention and point it out thus losing the fight....

Nate was checked by the ref and athletic commission and cleared of any wrong doing...

Nate however has been caught in the past for using steroids.... so he's not to be completley ruled out as a fighter who isn't willing to go to the extreme advantage to gain a compeditive edge...



demoman993 said:


> Alright. You have a point. You've taken every bad thing, bad rumor, and improper grammar that GSP and the people have done that have ever had anything to do with Greg Jackson and thrown a huge blanket over top of all of them.


Not entirely. I think he raises a few legitimate points. Especially credible witnesses such as Penn, Hughes, and Kenny..... especially Hughes.. but the interesting thing of all of it is that you have 5 high profile and mainstream MMA fighters all accusing 1 fighter of using a substance to make himself slippery..... if it was anybody besides GSP, the fighter in question would be crucified by forums...



demoman993 said:


> _1. indisputable video evidence of GSP cheating by grabbing on the shorts, punching in the back of the head and of course by the open use of vaseline._


punching the back of the head repeatedly, grabbing the shorts, and greasing all in one fight... that's cheating to every degree. 

It really is.



demoman993 said:


> Have you ever been in even one fight before? If you have been, I bet you didn't hit exactly where you aimed it every time.


Yeah but the difference is.... he hit B.J. *ALOT* behind the head.



demoman993 said:


> How many guys in MMA have done that? They're all cheats. How many guys have grabbed the cage with a toe or pinky? All of them CHEATS How many guys have grabbed the trunks while trying to get ahold of their opponent? All big time CHEATS.


all those offenses in one instance? grouped with the use of vasoline and water on the body though?

GSP was fighting dirty that night.

And according to former champions and even a UFC hall of famer more frequently than just that fight with B.J.



demoman993 said:


> Vaseline, GSP was busted as said by the commission, and eye witnesses. Not the first guy to do it, not the last either unless the commissions get their act together. Until they clamp down on it, its not going away. Face the reality. By no means am I justifying it but slinging mud in GSPs face and not EVERY other guy that has done it is a joke.


That is absolutly ridiculous. GSP deserves all of the mud in question. And calling it a commission issue is what is a joke..

That's equivilent to saying that until they have a commission member follow a fighter around his entire training camp to ensure said fighter doesn't inject steroids it will not go away because the commission doesn't have it's act together...

Cheating is cheating. And it's not the commissions fault. It's GSPs. And Phil Nurses. Cornermen clump together. It's interesing that none of the other cornermen saw the greasing take place..



demoman993 said:


> Steroids, Carwin has been implicated in a steroid scandal now from years ago, BEFORE he was with Greg Jacksons camp. Makes your point not valid. If you wanna start pointing fingers that have done steroids in the past at all, start the list and see where that takes you.


He's asking if Greg Jacksons camp cheats....

You got 2 contenders from Jacksons camp in seperate divisions who have been caught in steroid scandals and one champion who has been caught greasing and has been accused by multiple ex champions of greasing...

Than you have BJJ instructor Cesar Gracie accusing Jackson himself of encouraging his fighters to grease... and corner man Phil Nurse applying the grease...

Say what you will... but that evidence is pretty damn convincing. That's not conspiracy theory.. that's just hard facts.



demoman993 said:


> You've assembly a list of outstanding examples of trustworthy people. Kenny Florian was so mad at GSP for cheating apparently that he decided to start training with him.


Does that take away the fact that he accused GSP? Kenny still said it.




demoman993 said:


> Sean Sherk was busted for steroid use but obviously a great guy to use as an example.


This is the one I'll give you. Sherk testing positive will always taint his credibility..



demoman993 said:


> Mayhem will say anything to stay in the limelight, see every radio show/appearance that he does including his fights.


Problem with this is he's the first to come forward... followed by UFC champions and a Hall Of Famer who are saying the same exact thing.... and than GSP get's caught red handed... after all is said and done, GSP got caught slipping. He was being greased. 

That video even shows the cornerman sticking a glob of vasoline into his pocket when NSAC rushed Jacksons cornermen..




demoman993 said:


> Matt Hughes got his ass kicked by GSP twice, once by dual submission where GSP must have wiped all the grease off before applying both submission holds.


Matt Hughes is going to go down as a UFC legend and is in the Hall Of Fame, he's one of the most decorated and recognizable UFC fighters in the organizations history.

And you're going to question his credibility? Especially when he's other fighters cosigning his story and you have visual evidence?

That's amazing.



demoman993 said:


> _7. Ceaser Gracie states that Jackson fighters must stop greasing. _
> 
> As far as I know, only 1 guy has been busted, 1 time.


Really? Took two that night. GSP and Phil Nurse. And Phil Nurse is a fixture cornerman for Jacksons camp.




demoman993 said:


> Jackson has a lot of fighters in his camp, sure seems to be a strong allegation without hard proof.


Guillard was caught greasing before he was in Jacksons camp.
GSP has been caught greasing.
Jackson has been accused of encouraging it by Cesar Gracie
Shane Carwin is in the middle of a steroids scandal from years ago.
Phil Nurse was rubbing Vasoline on GSPs body
Nate Marquardt has tested positive for steroids in the past


You can't really flame the OP for raisng this question. It's a legitimate poll if you ask me..




demoman993 said:


> But who needs proof when you have hearsay.


That's the thing. You have hearsay and positive evidence as well as tests.... all of which have been provided for his argument..




demoman993 said:


> Would we really be talking about this if Palhares hadn't freaked about a hold that Nate was clearly trained to pop out of at the first sign of trouble? Probably not,


We kind of did before... but this just peeled the scab again..



demoman993 said:


> but at least you can get your one-sided opinion out there and piss people off that think these rumors and allegations are terrible for the sport.


What is terrible for the sport is vasoline and steroids. Now.. if these fighters and cornermen would stop participating in these actions things would definatly not be debated as heavily...

All in all... I'm just trying to show that questioning Jacksons camp of ill practice is not completley out of the question, at times it really can appear as if they are willing to take that extra step to gain a compeditive advantage....


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

NAte greasing was cleared up right after the fight though...no they aren't.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Michael and rival just shut down this thread.

Honestly, what the hell is wrong with some of you guys? Are you actually deluded?

If there was any justice in this world, some one would burn that jackson camp down to the ground with that weasel greg in there himself. 

I hate cheaters.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

For the record, Mayhem rescinded his remarks about GSP. No idea what that means to the conversation as I would like to stay out of this one, but I just thought I would share.


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## Hail the Potato (Jul 29, 2010)

Does anyone remember ever seeing a reporter ask GSP if he uses the lotion tactic before fights? 
Hughes basically accused him of it, but Ive never heard a response from him on the subject, which leads me to believe that he does. 

The UFC tries to downplay it because they dont want to look bad. Its not technically cheating but it definitely goes against the spirit of the rules and I really think they only cause MORE controversy by pretending like it doesnt happen.

I'd really like to see GSP asked whether he and his camp use the tactic of applying tons of lotion in the hours (possibly days -for all I know) leading up to a fight. 

I have a feeling that GSP wouldnt lie about it if asked. If it is a real issue that affects the outcomes of fights then it needs to be brought to light so it can be dealt with. Maybe the UFC can make the fighters take a warm shower with soap a half hour before the fight or something like that.

Also, I dont mean to single out GSP because he is definitely not the only fighter to be accused of the lotion tactic, but given his status in the UFC I think he ought to address it in some way. 

As far as Marquart/Palhares goes, if all Nate did was just warm up a littler harder so he would come out sweaty then that is not dirty at all, just smart.

Edit: I did not vote, but I do believe that they have used the lotion tactic before. I dont want to call them cheaters but I also dont think theyre totally innocent.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Well I am enjoying this debate. Honestly.  I am especially enjoying the posters who disagree with me, it's really interesting to get the different points of view. 

Don't take this as a dig, but one thing which fascinates me is how people can completely ignore overwhelming evidence, even when it's right in their face. 

We had a great, fun, rollicking debate before on religion. And to a certain degree, fans' attitudes towards fighters resembles religious attitudes, as in, they believe in certain fighters and their "goodness" even if they are literally sprouting horns and drinking blood right in front of your face. 

For example, Brock, who acts like the biggest d*ck on the planet, can be defended as someone who sells tickets and grows the sport.

GSP can clear out an entire warehouse of vaseline and pour it on his shoulders and some fans will still defend him because he is fighting the "evil douche" BJ Penn, lol!

So yeah, if you think "your fighter" is a good guy, you will defend him against any accusation, even if he is the dirtiest, most vile creature from a strictly non-emotional, objective perspective.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

what's the name of that song on that bj penn video anyway?


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## FatFreeMilk (Jan 22, 2010)

GSP did grease, if it wouldn't have helped him in the fight then why do it in the first place.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Simple answer: NO! Jackson Camp in NOT cheating!


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> *Matt Hughes, Sean Sherk, BJ Penn, Jason Mayhem Miller and Ken Florian* have all accused GSP of greasing.


Yes, they have. All accusations and none of it was ever proved. Outside of the Penn incident which I don't think is what you do. IF Nurse put Vaseline on him it wasn't intentional and it sure as hell wasn't enough to swing the momentum of that fight in any way, shape or form.



> *
> The Gracies* have openly accused Greg Jackson himself of encouraging this practice.


Accusations with no founding again. Also, as much as I love them, the Gracies have been known to cry about non-existent shit to make excuses.



> *Shane Carwin* *is also alleged to have taken steroids.* An allegation which is about as debatable as whether Barry Bonds took the clear.


Shane Carwin was given steroids by a doctor in 2006. *Four Years Ago!* He was not in any way affiliated with the Jackson camp at the time. It's only recently he's even started training with them.



> *
> Marquardt has tested positive* for steroids.


Kind of. He tested positive for steroids, yes, but the re-test came back negative. Kaizer said the number for his Nandrolone was 49, which is "Well over the limit" and his re-test came back negative. This can mean it's cycled, yes, but it can also mean it was a completely false positive.

On the other hand, Nate said he did take Androstenedione, which is banned. At the time though it had only been banned for a matter of months and STORES WERE STILL SELLING IT. It was completely legal to buy and take until stores ran out of their supply. Add to this that *The NSAC DOES NOT provide a banned substance list because it gives a warning list to fighters of what they can and can't get away with.* And you can see why he wouldn't have thought it was a banned substance. 



> Here's *"Stitch's"* take: either GSP's corner was inexperienced or deliberately cheating. Obviously, GSP's corner was NOT inexperienced, leaving only one logical conclusion:


Because having 60 seconds to completely debrief a fighter who is high as shit on adrenaline in front of 100,000 people is no pressure right? What Nurse did was apply vasaline to GSP's cheeks (LEGAL), clear it all and rub it into his cheeks and then do a massage to help him breathe better (the chest compressions). He must do ALL of that in a very short amount of time. If he thinks "Alright, Vasaline is on, massage then go!" It's easy to see why he did what he did. From his perspective (and mine, as a Fighter myself) the Vasaline he applied to GSP's face was on GSP's face and any "residue" on his hands would in no way be a factor for the rest of the fight so why not just continue his ritual instead of burning the clock by taking the gloves off, etc. That's the way I see it anyways. If I was BJ in that corner I never would've had a second thought about it. BJ was getting owned hard, he needed an excuse so he picked on that one. That's the way I see it.



> Here's a video showing GSP being warned for cheating:
> 
> 1. punching in the back of the head after endless warnings,
> 2. for grabbing the shorts, and of course for
> 3. the illegal use of vaseline:


1. Never, EVER happens with any other fight right? Oh wait, it happens in ALMOST ALL OF THEM.
2. Also never happens in an MMA fight. Except it does, frequently. Along with grabbing the fence etc. It's human instinct to grab on to shit (Hello, thumbs!?) to get a better grip.
3. A) Not GSP who did it, it was Phil Nurse. B) Read my above statement. C) Thrown out by the NSAC.



> *Chuck Liddell, Frank Mir and Dana White* all stated on the record that they saw vaseline being applied to GSP by his corner.


Yeah, everybody saw it, that makes it more than one instance? Okay. 



> *Ceaser Gracie:* "Jackson camp has to stop greasing."


Again with the Gracies... already used this.



> *NSAC Exec. Direct Kizer* is also quoted as stating that BJ was basically screwed, in more polite language.


Screwed? His case got thrown out of the NSAC for being ridiculous. 



> *Sherk: *_"ha ha, he *(GSP) was very slippery.* Musta h*ad some oil on* or something. I couldn't grab him for nothin.'"_


[/QUOTE]
Again, unfounded accusation. Maybe Sherk couldn't grab him because he has ******* T-Rex baby arms and GSP is WAY stronger and more agile than him, eh? Also, I'm not sure if you've ever tried to grab another sweaty dude who doesn't want you to get ahold of him but it isn't exactly easy. It makes it 100x harder than that if the guy is physically stronger and faster than you. Harder still if you're getting your face turned to hamburger at the same time.


*ALSO MICHAELANGELO, STOP DOUBLE AND TRIPLE POSTING. IF YOU CONTINUE YOU WILL GET A WARNING ETC.*


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

_RIVAL_ said:


> what's the name of that song on that bj penn video anyway?


Anybody?


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I knew this thread was coming. Marquardt was checked after the fight seconds after the victory and before the fight. Just because palhares makes an accusation doesn't mean it is true. This just looks bad because of the controversy surrounding GSP.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Mirage445 said:


> I'm sure greasing your back/shoulders would help greatly against the rubberguard BJ was attempting over and over.


Not sure if you know this or not... rubber guard doesn't rely on friction nearly as much as people seem to think. Rubber guard doesn't utilize your leg sticking to your opponents back, it uses the barrier to keep him pulled down (less space for face punching) and your knee and arm for body and head/shoulder control (less movement for positional face punching). In fact you really dont WANT your leg to stick to your opponents back because it makes it pretty easy to break that way, actually... just saying. I've heard the excuse of "ONFG BJ'S RUBBER GUARD WOULDN'T WORK BECUZ GSP WAS GREEST!" No, BJ's rubber guard wouldn't work because every time BJ went to grab his foot, GSP DEFENDED IT CORRECTLY by posturing up and slaming his elbow into BJ's face. It had way less to do with "Excessive Grease" and way more to do with "Excessive Face Punching" which is totally legal


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

_RIVAL_ said:


> what's the name of that song on that bj penn video anyway?



Dj Shadow ft. Mos Def - Six DayS remix 








Original Version - DJ Shadow - Six Days


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Got it AmdM.... gracias...

+rep. :thumbsup:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> Yes, they have. All accusations and none of it was ever proved. Outside of the Penn incident which I don't think is what you do. *IF Nurse put Vaseline on him it wasn't intentional* and it sure as hell wasn't enough to swing the momentum of that fight in any way, shape or form.
> 
> 
> Accusations with no founding again. Also, as much as I love them, the Gracies have been known to cry about non-existent shit to make excuses.
> ...


Again, unfounded accusation. Maybe Sherk couldn't grab him because he has ******* T-Rex baby arms and GSP is WAY stronger and more agile than him, eh? Also, I'm not sure if you've ever tried to grab another sweaty dude who doesn't want you to get ahold of him but it isn't exactly easy. It makes it 100x harder than that if the guy is physically stronger and faster than you. Harder still if you're getting your face turned to hamburger at the same time.


*ALSO MICHAELANGELO, STOP DOUBLE AND TRIPLE POSTING. IF YOU CONTINUE YOU WILL GET A WARNING ETC.*[/QUOTE]

Stopped reading here. (Bolded)

Another deluded GSP fan.


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## GarethUFC (Sep 12, 2007)

no smoke with out fire.... Most of his fighters are thought to be very slippy...


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Again, unfounded accusation. Maybe Sherk couldn't grab him because he has ******* T-Rex baby arms and GSP is WAY stronger and more agile than him, eh? Also, I'm not sure if you've ever tried to grab another sweaty dude who doesn't want you to get ahold of him but it isn't exactly easy. It makes it 100x harder than that if the guy is physically stronger and faster than you. Harder still if you're getting your face turned to hamburger at the same time.
> 
> 
> *ALSO MICHAELANGELO, STOP DOUBLE AND TRIPLE POSTING. IF YOU CONTINUE YOU WILL GET A WARNING ETC.*
> ...


Not agreeing wth your OPINION does not make people deluded. If this were true, then you would be deluded to them for not agreeing with them. So how about debating the topic wthout adding useless things like that or just don't talk.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Agreed. Heaven forbid we not be 'called out' or neg repped for being in disagreement with someone. If only life were that easy... we could all live in perfect harmony! I not once stated that I was in disagreement about GSP. Something fishy definitely went down there, regardless of whether it was accidental or purposeful. So why people are on my case about that is beyond me. Marquardt's situation (steroids and being 'slippery') isn't quite as cut and dry, nor is Carwin's, given how long ago it occurred. This could well be a case of poor, yet past judgement. Carwin himself has also stated several times that he's 6 foot 2, so I've no idea where this 6 feet nonsense is coming from. We can't just subtract two inches to suit our own points of view. 

My main issue, however, was with calling out Jackson's camp for actions such as grabbing onto shorts, punching to the back of the head, and so on. I just felt that a rather silly approach to take, given how common place both are in mixed martial arts. If we're going to utilize that as a basis for calling out GSP, then we may as well call out every fighter ever to set foot into the Octagon. Hell, if we tack on grabbing the fence, we could easily make the case that everyone in the UFC cheats! Again, I'm not saying Jackson's fighters aren't guilty of this. But I am further saying that _everyone_ is guilty of this. You can't just dump it on one team to support your own perspective, especially when you have plenty of real dirt regarding greasing and steroids.















Funny... or convenient... how people always forget about these two. OMG... neither is GSP nor a Camp Jackson fighter!!


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> Not agreeing wth your OPINION does not make people deluded. If this were true, then you would be deluded to them for not agreeing with them. So how about debating the topic wthout adding useless things like that or just don't talk.



No, no it isnt an opinion. Did you read the part where i said i stopped reading his post?! First he said "IF" gsp was greased. There is no if, but, or.....there is 100 percent video evidence of gsp being greased on camera, there are no ifs. Arguing against proven evidence shows that he and many other fans are deluded. It isnt opinion. He is arguing against proven facts on camera, GSP greased. Not "If" he greased, he DID grease.

Why argue or bother reading the rest of his post when he obviously cant come to terms with the actual facts and truth. GSP DID GREASE and there is evidence to prove it, any one that says he didnt is ******* deluded. Simple as that.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

I never understand what GreaseSP fans are defending when they mention the whole greasing scandal. He clearly cheated. 

These same guys would probably defend him if he failed a drug test too.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> No, no it isnt an opinion. Did you read the part where i said i stopped reading his post?! First he said "IF" gsp was greased. There is no if, but, or.....there is 100 percent video evidence of gsp being greased on camera, there are no ifs. Arguing against proven evidence shows that he and many other fans are deluded. It isnt opinion. He is arguing against proven facts on camera, GSP greased. Not "If" he greased, he DID grease.
> 
> Why argue or bother reading the rest of his post when he obviously cant come to terms with the actual facts and truth. GSP DID GREASE and there is evidence to prove it, any one that says he didnt is ******* deluded. Simple as that.


There is still debate about it and whether or not he knew it was happening. These are where the opinions come in. This is a forum with debates. These debates WILL remain civil and without the use of any put downs. You can think whatever you want but saying things like that has no place here.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Hail the Potato said:


> I'd really like to see GSP asked whether he and his camp use the tactic of applying tons of lotion in the hours (possibly days -for all I know) leading up to a fight.


If you want to watch GSP lie his a$$ off be my guest here is a vid, which only prove to be he is a liar and a cheat, not to mention the worse kind of arrogant a$$hole





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UEwTms36Es

maybe someone could post a topic, or direct me to a topic that says how to embed videos.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Iemedded it for you. What you do is take the last part of the URL and put it between the youtube tags.

URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UEwTms36Es

So what you would put between the tags is _UEwTms36Es


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## punchbag (Mar 1, 2010)

americanfighter said:


> Ok first of all I am not going to take strong stand either side on this at this point. But after the nate fight I know the issue has come up.
> 
> I was just wondering how many people are on each side and why.
> 
> ...


He was proved to not be cheating, Palhares even apologised for the accusation, lets move along swiftly and enjoy the fights.

:thumbsup:


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

cheating the fans of entertaining fights.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> There is still debate about it and whether or not he knew it was happening. These are where the opinions come in. This is a forum with debates. These debates WILL remain civil and without the use of any put downs. You can think whatever you want but saying things like that has no place here.


Well i wasnt arguing about whether GSP knew he was being greased up or not. I was arguing about the fact that tramai was still trying deny that any grease was used in the first place, when clearly it was. "IF" he was greased. Like i said, no ifs, no buts, he was 100 percent greased. Arguing otherwise is delusional.


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