# What are the best submission holds?



## Dragon-Ninja (May 4, 2009)

I like to have mock battle's with my friend's before I train (or during) and I was wondering what are the best holds I could use 

in a standing position

on the floor on all fours 

im standing he's on the ground and Vice versa

Provide pictures PLZ

thanks!
:thumbsup:


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## Nick_Lynch (Feb 3, 2008)

Flying gogoplata is the answer to all.


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## Randomus (Apr 30, 2009)

This one is pretty good:



Don't recommend trying it, of course, but it's still quite cool.


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## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

Standing, definitely Grovit:

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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

Dragon-Ninja said:


> on the floor on all fours


I like to call this the mounted doggy submission. I'll have to PM you the picture though.


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

Who needs submission holds when you can just do this


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Dragon-Ninja said:


> on the floor on all fours












?


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## King JLB (Apr 28, 2009)

KEELr said:


> Who needs submission holds when you can just do this


Also known as the deadly crotch stomp! :thumb02:


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## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

Peruvian Necktie for me.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

The best moves are the ones that fit your body style and are in your muscle memory. These should be the ones you are learning wherever you are training. Trying to actually land an unfamiliar submission even in a lightly competitive atmosphere could lead to someone, including yourself, getting hurt. Ther is no substitute for a good instructor. It would be better to get the training and not learn bad habits.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Dragon-Ninja said:


> I like to have mock battle's with my friend's before I train (or during) and I was wondering what are the best holds I could use
> 
> in a standing position- the guilliotine
> 
> ...


all basic and easy to apply


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## Nick_Lynch (Feb 3, 2008)

jcal said:


> all basic and easy to apply


I would suggest not going for the heel-hook unless both you and your partner know what your doing.


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## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

Nick_Lynch said:


> I would suggest not going for the heel-hook unless both you and your partner know what your doing.


Toehold is a much better solution.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Freelancer said:


> Toehold is a much better solution.


Toe holds can be pretty gross if you know what I mean, funky feet dirty shoes etc, Id go with ankle lock and just put mywrist bone edge right in the spot and arch, he will tap unless hes used to thatpain


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## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

jcal said:


> Toe holds can be pretty gross if you know what I mean, funky feet dirty shoes etc, Id go with ankle lock and just put mywrist bone edge right in the spot and arch, he will tap unless hes used to thatpain


You mean achilles hold?


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## Kimura_Korey (Apr 28, 2009)

I hope you guys dont do leglocks or heelhooks when you are rolling around with buddies that is a good way to blow out ligaments and really hurt yourself. If you are practicing them it should all be very light and technically more than actually forcably applying the submission. I wouldn't recommend it. 

As for the best submission it has got to be the Kimura for real. You can use this submission from any position and it is a great way to set up sweeps and get out of bad spots. Kimura is about as good as it is going to get. I am not biased or nothing because of my name.....:confused05: hehehe

/thread


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## Tyson2011 (Jan 12, 2009)

Kimura_Korey said:


> I hope you guys dont do leglocks or heelhooks when you are rolling around with buddies that is a good way to blow out ligaments and really hurt yourself. If you are practicing them it should all be very light and technically more than actually forcably applying the submission. I wouldn't recommend it.
> 
> As for the best submission it has got to be the Kimura for real. You can use this submission from any position and it is a great way to set up sweeps and get out of bad spots. Kimura is about as good as it is going to get. I am not biased or nothing because of my name.....:confused05: hehehe
> 
> /thread


what the dude with the hot avi said.


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## Randomus (Apr 30, 2009)

Ditto what Kimura said.

You also have to be careful when working foot locks in training, because it's really easy to hurt someone.

Although you have to be very careful when you're working the kimura, as it's real easy to tweak something, even when drilling. One of my teammates was caught in an americana during a tournament last weekend, and ended up tearing a few muscles in his elbow.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Why would anybody use the kamura when his partner is on all fours? or from a standing position unless the dude had your back? why would you use the kamura if the guy is standing in your guard?:confused03: Reread the thread. Achillese hold, ankle lock whatever. You guys mean to tell me when your rollin you dont go for locks below the waist, why not, if your any good you should know how hard to apply anything much less a heelhook or leglock or toehold or whatever without hurting your opponent. Right?


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## Randomus (Apr 30, 2009)

jcal said:


> You guys mean to tell me when your rollin you dont go for locks below the waist, why not, if your any good you should know how hard to apply anything much less a heelhook or leglock or toehold or whatever without hurting your opponent. Right?


 Most advanced guys I know will only try to submit experienced people with submissions like knee bars or heel hooks while rolling, as it's too easy for an inexperienced person to freak out and do something silly.

Besides that, there is a reason most gyms don't teach people knee bars and similar submissions until they're much more experienced.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

Fieos said:


> The best moves are the ones that fit your body style and are in your muscle memory. These should be the ones you are learning wherever you are training. Trying to actually land an unfamiliar submission even in a lightly competitive atmosphere could lead to someone, including yourself, getting hurt. Ther is no substitute for a good instructor. It would be better to get the training and not learn bad habits.


Muscle memory is the key to good jiu jitsu.
Muscle memory is the best submission move.


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## Kimura_Korey (Apr 28, 2009)

jcal said:


> Why would anybody use the kamura when his partner is on all fours? or from a standing position unless the dude had your back? why would you use the kamura if the guy is standing in your guard?:confused03: Reread the thread. Achillese hold, ankle lock whatever. You guys mean to tell me when your rollin you dont go for locks below the waist, why not, if your any good you should know how hard to apply anything much less a heelhook or leglock or toehold or whatever without hurting your opponent. Right?


Well I have seen plenty of fights standing and an opponent was slouching when the other fighter take his arm and tweaks it. The best is when they sweep while trying for it. I just feel it is the best submission mostly because it is low risk if you don't get it. If your in full mount if you lose a Kimura your still in full mount. If you turn for an armbar in mount you lose position if you fail the lock. This is also why I love head and arm triangle choke submissions or simply the arm triangle. When also attempting that position from a mount you don't really lose much position maybe just a switch to side control.

http://www.break.com/usercontent/2007/12/Frank-Trigg-vs-Edwin-Dewees-418612.html

That is a link to a Frank Trigg victory with a pretty sick Kimura. I hate Frank Trigg but it was nice. He secured it when he was in bad position and pretty much if Trigg can do it mostly anyone can. Not hard to learn.

Also about the heelhooks sometimes when people drop down to roll for a heelhook them sometimes overturn and hurt there opponents. I am sure pros can control themselves better but I just don't do it much.


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## NastyNinja (Feb 4, 2009)

Watching my brother roll with his friend few years before UFC1 even came out and us doing what we learned on a wack ass video we got to train with turned into a life long issue

My brother caught him in a heel hook and went to far, it is gross and disturbing how fast and easy it is to take away the persons dream to Jits, even to this day this many years later we all regreat learning that move WAY to soon

DO NOT **** AROUND WITH LEG LOCKS AND ANKLE LOCKS

keylocks/AIR CHOKES/Arm bars from bottom and top/Gaurd and top control are some of the basic stuff that one could learn from not really being in a school, even the arms can be quickly hurt so just be safe and REMEMBER 1 RULE ....TAP YOUR PARTNER NOT THE GROUND!

This is like gun control after a point, the things you do are instant and harmful, dont fk with it like a toy or you might really do something.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

I totally understand what your sayin about legs, knees etc. But the worst ive ever been tweeked was by a bigger guy by mabe 40 lbs. get his firt americana or we called it keylock back then and just crank it as hard as he could. He was so stoked he had a lock he almost broke my shoulder in two (exaggerated) but still. So for me and the few I train with ,when I train anymore, kinda know what were doing, and dont mind tappin. And Randamous, I agree with you, the arm triangle is a beautifully easy and effective no risk move


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## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

I suggest the vulcan death grip.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

SimplyNate said:


> I suggest the vulcan death grip.


No the george dillman death by chi thrust:confused05:


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Okay, this is called glock squeeze. you get a glock, grip it tightly with your hand, there is a little slot to put your index finger, put it there gently. Point the end opposite the grip towards the opponent, squeeze lightly with your index finger. If you're doing this right you should hear a very loud pop and the other person should start screaming or fall to the ground limp, merely repeat the same steps until they stop screaming, go limp or instead of a loud pop it only makes a weak click. rinse and repeat


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

This one is called the "Gimme your lunch money"


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## 18573 (Jul 7, 2007)

You can never go wrong with this one dude


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## Mjr (Apr 22, 2007)

Mate, please do not practice subs if you are inexperienced and away from supervision. 

However the best way to get at your friend is to grapple with his sister. You may do this anywhere even at his house.


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## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

Take up Judo and just toss the BJJ guys on their head when they try and take you down.


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## Mjr (Apr 22, 2007)

Better yet, get his sister to take up Judo, so she can toss you.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

SimplyNate said:


> Take up Judo and just toss the BJJ guys on their head when they try and take you down.


In shootwrestling it used to be fun to take Judo players down and submit them or cross face em and make em tap, out of there element they were clueles Wrestlers rule at takedowns, its not even debateable


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## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

Well of course wrestlers have the best takedowns. But judo can toss BJJ guys around, unless they already trained wrestling.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

I don't think wrestling takedowns are any better, just different. However a good judoka should be better on their back than a good wrestler.

I'm assuming you are talking about single/double leg takedowns versus a sweep or a toss? If that is the case it really depends on the starting position. In a clinch I'll put my money on the judoka, a neutral standing position would favor the wrestler.

Wrestlers definitely have the edge on conditioning and explosiveness.


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## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

Judo has more versatile takedowns then wrestling. 67 different types of takedowns. And we are talking about freestyle wrestling, yes?


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

Freelancer said:


> Judo has more versatile takedowns then wrestling. 67 different types of takedowns. And we are talking about freestyle wrestling, yes?


This forum needs more philosopher-quoting judoka! It really is becoming an under-appreciated martial art.

Plus when a wrestler takes you down (aside from Matt Hughes style) you are now fighting on the ground. When a judoka takes you down, the fight is pretty much taken out of you.


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## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

IMO pure judoka beats a pure wrestler any day of the week (I'm talking about freestyle and greco roman, not CACC). Submissions are the deciding factor, judokas know them, wrestlers don't.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Freelancer said:


> Judo has more versatile takedowns then wrestling. 67 different types of takedowns. And we are talking about freestyle wrestling, yes?


First off, I was not being completely serious, I was just sticking up for my style! I have been owned by judo players more than once, im a little older and have been doing groundwork since 95' off and on. My question is if judo has 67 takedowns, trips, throws whatever, how many are REALLY effective? I know jujitsu has many, many takedowns but I also could spot the ones that were not REALLY any good, but you would have to practice it anyway or not move up(beltwise), even though you know that they are pretty much garabage.:thumb02:


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## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

Judo has the best throwdowns!


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVdnQi8OO3o wrestlers rule


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

Jukoda don't wear women's swimming suits...





as far as you know


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## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

jcal said:


> First off, I was not being completely serious, I was just sticking up for my style! I have been owned by judo players more than once, im a little older and have been doing groundwork since 95' off and on. My question is if judo has 67 takedowns, trips, throws whatever, how many are REALLY effective? I know jujitsu has many, many takedowns but I also could spot the ones that were not REALLY any good, but you would have to practice it anyway or not move up(beltwise), even though you know that they are pretty much garabage.:thumb02:


About 80 percent are REALLY effective in competition others can are effective against a noob. BTW that was a cool move that wrestler did. It looked like Rock Bottom:thumb02:


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