# Preassure Points??



## The Don (May 25, 2006)

OK Is it me or while grappling in the MMA I do not see the use of many preassure points and such, is this becoming a lost art or what I have used preassure points to get out of many holds or to break stalemates.


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## USMCgrappler (May 24, 2006)

Pressure points are only as good as ones ability to suffer the pain. In my experience, grappling in the military against those who know them, they do not work all the time. 
I know they only hurt, but don't usually damage. No reason to tap or give up position.

Nate


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## The Don (May 25, 2006)

oh true that but if your in a bind they can help you our or force the person to move in a way they do not want if you can cause sufficient pain, everyones pain tolerence is different, and true I have had mixed success with them but I am not sure if they are even allowed in MMA stuff since I have not seen it used


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Alot of the pros are so thick and so fast that (1) if you loosen up to apply them you'll get pounded and (2) they have such thick muscle on their frames that the nerves become harder to locate and less effecive when found.

That's at least from my personal experience.


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## DAT (May 29, 2006)

I don't believe muscularity has anything to do with finding nerve or pressure points which are close enough to the skin to find, hit or apply pressure. The reason that pressure points are not used in mma is because in the heat of battle it is virtually impossible to pinpoint your attack and effectively use the concept. It is unrealistic unless you have honed your skills over most of your lifetime. Maybe George Dillman or a Dim Mak master like Earl Montague could possibly pull it off but not the average mma practioner who wants to find an edge on the competition.

One more point, during a fairly static situation where one fighter is on top of the other you would think the opportunity for a nerve strike would arise. But just think of the adrenalin that is flowing and the fatigue factor. First, the adrenalin would obstruct much of the pain, a seasoned mma fighter is much more used to withstanding pain via submission than the average guy in the street, and second, fine skilled motor techniques are very difficult to pull off under such a stressfull fatiguing situation. Finding a dime or even quarter sized spot on a sweaty whirling dervish is a tall order. 

Bottom line, you don't see anything in the octagon that isn't practical, doesn't work or pay big dividends.


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## The Don (May 25, 2006)

:: nods :: ok I can agree with alot of that I guess in straigt grappling when your not worried about a fist to the face its easier to do.


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## Paw (May 23, 2006)

DAT said:


> I don't believe muscularity has anything to do with finding nerve or pressure points which are close enough to the skin to find, hit or apply pressure. The reason that pressure points are not used in mma is because in the heat of battle it is virtually impossible to pinpoint your attack and effectively use the concept. It is unrealistic unless you have honed your skills over most of your lifetime. Maybe George Dillman or a Dim Mak master like Earl Montague could possibly pull it off but not the average mma practioner who wants to find an edge on the competition.
> 
> One more point, during a fairly static situation where one fighter is on top of the other you would think the opportunity for a nerve strike would arise. But just think of the adrenalin that is flowing and the fatigue factor. First, the adrenalin would obstruct much of the pain, a seasoned mma fighter is much more used to withstanding pain via submission than the average guy in the street, and second, fine skilled motor techniques are very difficult to pull off under such a stressfull fatiguing situation. Finding a dime or even quarter sized spot on a sweaty whirling dervish is a tall order.
> 
> Bottom line, you don't see anything in the octagon that isn't practical, doesn't work or pay big dividends.


Musularity has everything to do with where your pressurepoints the more muscular and rippen you are the closer it is to the surface making people more susceptable to these attacks. And what do you mean you cant use an effective pressure point attack. What about the filtrum thats a pressure point and if punched can knock an opponent out. Along the cheek bone there are 4 pressure points which when crossed or hooked and hit simutaneously will also knock your opponent out. The solar plexus also when hit can cause substansial damage winding a person. Also a nerve cluster on the inside of the leg when hit will floor your opponent. etc neet i go on, these are all points that are commonly hit and are all pressure points.

Phill


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## DAT (May 29, 2006)

"Musularity has everything to do with where your pressurepoints the more muscular and rippen you are the closer it is to the surface making people more susceptable to these attacks."

Not neccessarily true. Points are close (relatively) to the skin no matter what bodystyle you have. Some people are different and some people are more or less impervious to pressure point pain. This I've seen for myself firsthand.


"And what do you mean you cant use an effective pressure point attack. What about the filtrum thats a pressure point and if punched can knock an opponent out. Along the cheek bone there are 4 pressure points which when crossed or hooked and hit simutaneously will also knock your opponent out. The solar plexus also when hit can cause substansial damage winding a person. Also a nerve cluster on the inside of the leg when hit will floor your opponent. etc neet i go on, these are all points that are commonly hit and are all pressure points."

I never said there weren't pressure points on the body, just that they are hard to target while someone is trying to KO or submit you. All the points you mention are there but who can pinpoint them in the middle of octagon chaos. If it were that elemental you'd see a lot of people reeling from pressure point attacks.

Is there an mma fighter out there that has that ability? I have yet to see him. The most common pressure point I've seen used successfully and commonly is the nerve about halfway down your upper leg which is targeted by muay thay type kicks. When hit often (K-1) and right on target it can cause immobility that will result in the inability to kick with that leg or maintain a strong base.


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## Paw (May 23, 2006)

DAT said:


> "Musularity has everything to do with where your pressurepoints the more muscular and rippen you are the closer it is to the surface making people more susceptable to these attacks."
> 
> Not neccessarily true. Points are close (relatively) to the skin no matter what bodystyle you have. Some people are different and some people are more or less impervious to pressure point pain. This I've seen for myself firsthand.
> 
> ...


You see all the points I have listed above are all commonly hit within the chaos of the octagon and I did not say that you said they didnt exist . It does depend on the person not the body type. 

"The most common pressure point I've seen used successfully and commonly is the nerve about halfway down your upper leg which is targeted by muay thay type kicks. When hit often (K-1) and right on target it can cause immobility that will result in the inability to kick with that leg or maintain a strong base.."

Thats the nerve cluster im referring to. :laugh: 

"All the points you mention are there but who can pinpoint them in the middle of octagon chaos. If it were that elemental you'd see a lot of people reeling from pressure point attacks."

All those points are commonly hit by accident causing a knockout.


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## The Don (May 25, 2006)

now I know not all preassure points are hit by striking either there are also those that are deep in the body that require you to be exact and those that just glanced can cause pain, and people are affected differently by some spots, there are several that barely affect me yet I have seen others break into tears and scream when hit


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## DAT (May 29, 2006)

"All those points are commonly hit by accident causing a knockout."

"Accident" being the operative word. I know you were talking about "that" nerve cluster, I was making the point that based on your list of pressure points that is the only one that is used on a regular basis with some degree of effectiveness. The others, though devastating at times, cannot be targeted successfully at a high percentage and thus pressure point usage in mma is a hit or miss proposition at best.

Bottom line, I don't see George Dillman and his co-horts being summoned to the Militich or Bas Ruttan's camp for pressure point seminars. There is too much out there that is much higher on the totem pole of effectiveness.

Street application against an unsuspecting adversary, that's a whole nother story and a whole nother thread.


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## The Don (May 25, 2006)

I can agree with that myself I think they work better in pure grappling contests as well.. where you can just push one of the spots


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## fullpitch (May 30, 2006)

a great pressure point where you dont have to be precise is under the arm. there is a wide area under there that if you apply just 2 pounds of finger pressure during a ground grapple it will hurt bad enough to make the other guy involentarily move away from it and create an opening or tap out if youre dominating on top. under the back of the jaw and below the ear is very sensitive also and Ive seen several fights where it couldve been applied when the dominator had his hand on the opponents face during a ground grapple. I do not think anyone would not react to these unless they were high on pcp at the time.


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## The Don (May 25, 2006)

the one under the arm is actualy a series of different preassure points that are all about equally effective but that is one of my favorites to get out of a headlock or choke if I can spear hand it


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## Paw (May 23, 2006)

As I was aying they still may be hit by accident but it is still generally in a small area the head and with a multiple points causing a knockout you generally just have to aim for that area for the desired effect.


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## fullpitch (May 30, 2006)

true don...I shouldve been clear to avoid misunderstanding and included pressure point "area" in my first sentence as was intended. the only bad thing about that would be the pit stench left on your hand/glove afterwards. :laugh:


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## Onganju (May 26, 2006)

If I remember correctly, PP attacks are not allowed in MMA. However, due to their nature, they are at best (as DAT stated) a hit-or-miss weapon under actual combat applications. I would actually think that you would have a much larger chance of winning the lottery than being able to use PP attacks with reliable results in an actual fight; especially against someone who is trained.

Case in point: One thing that I sadistically do to get someone's arm off of me (if they are the average Joe) is shooting a spear hand up into a person's armpit. Usually you can catch a person off guard and cause a consistent enough amount of pain to make them recoil quickly. When I used to roll with one of my associates from my brother's church, I found myself mounted and in the midst of trying to bridge/upa out of it I snuck the spear into place. After the intitial flinch, I had the same arm I used snatched from its safe haven and barred viciously. 

The same guy told me about how to get into someone's nerves just enough to make them move to escape, but warned about how in an actual fight it would be a lot better trying to tie up the person on top and sweeping them because it doesn't do me any good to fish for nerve clusters if my head is being bounced off of the canvas from punches. Further, through rolling on a regular basis, if your opponent is conscious enough to fight you for control of your arms, head, or legs (which they will do whether they are skilled or not) it becomes too much of an issue to look for a fine pressure-point area regardless if you're in a good position or not.


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## Paw (May 23, 2006)

Haha a 1 in 13 million chance in winning the lottery. What I was saying you may not be aiming to hit them, you may just be wanting to hit them as hard as you can in the head but people still hit them and knock their opponent out with out any knowledge of pressurepoint attacks.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

I'd like to see a Hapkido master fight some MMA guys. It'd be interesting, but like you said, pressure points are illegal in the UFC.


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## DAT (May 29, 2006)

This from the UFC rules on their site. I don't see pressure points or anything similar described as a no-no. #12 comes the closest.


Fouls: [Top]
1. Butting with the head. 
2. Eye gouging of any kind. 
3. Biting. 
4. Hair pulling. 
5. Fish hooking. 
6. Groin attacks of any kind. 
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent. 
8. Small joint manipulation. 
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head. 
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow. 
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea. 
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh. 
13. Grabbing the clavicle. 
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent. 
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent. 
16. Stomping a grounded opponent. 
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel. 
18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck. 
19. Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area. 
20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent. 
21. Spitting at an opponent. 
22. Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent. 
23. Holding the ropes or the fence. 
24. Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area. 
25. Attacking an opponent on or during the break. 
26. Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee. 
27. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat. 
28. Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee. 
29. Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury. 
30. Interference by the corner. 
31. Throwing in the towel during competition.


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## Onganju (May 26, 2006)

Paw said:


> Haha a 1 in 13 million chance in winning the lottery. What I was saying you may not be aiming to hit them, you may just be wanting to hit them as hard as you can in the head but people still hit them and knock their opponent out with out any knowledge of pressurepoint attacks.


If you notice, the operative words of my argument were "being able to use PP attacks with reliable results in an actual fight; especially against someone who is trained." Even then, I can safely bet due to my rudimentary knowledge of human physiology, that even if a man were to have the majority his facial nerves paralyzed he would still get knocked out from being hit in the head hard enough. There is still the ability to shock the brain inside of skull violently enough to have it mash into one side of their cranium (just like any concussion) and that will knock someone out regardless of the operative nerves just under the 2nd layer of their skin.

You also have to realize that a lot of PP theory and technique falls under the extremely old-school philosophy of training striking arts. This was developed either under 1 or 2-step katas or drills where a set willing partner would attack, and they practitioner would counter and finish the technique with no resistance being given at all. Neither was the technique ever trained to be fully completed (an ear mark of many traditional Martial Arts) because of fear of maiming or killing their training partner. Because of that, the person training in such arts would be completely at a handicap when actually facing a trained and experienced fighter. It's the same reason why many point-tournament competitors who enjoy large amounts of success are abysmal at full-contact or freestyle competitions. The reason being is that all fights continue chaotically past every initial set of techniques, unless they are lucky or good enough to KO their opponent 100% in each and every fight; which we all know is impossible anyways.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

DAT said:


> This from the UFC rules on their site. I don't see pressure points or anything similar described as a no-no. #12 comes the closest.
> 
> 
> Fouls: [Top]
> ...


Well damn, youre right. I guess I just misread the misread the 8th rule, small joint manipulation. Which was specifically designed to keep people from targeting fingers and such.

My bad.


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## The Don (May 25, 2006)

cool... I always wondered what the actual fiuls were


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