# Anderson Silva's P4P Status



## looney liam (Jun 22, 2007)

i think after last night, Anderson Silva is undoubtedly the no1 p4p fighter in the world.

before the disappointing cote and leites fights many considered him #1-#2 in the world, and because of the performances he dropped to 3 in many peoples eyes. now im not going to defend those fights, but keep in mind that every top fighter he's faced, he's absolutely destroyed.

forrest griffin is a great fighter, he beat 2 #1 ranked fighters in his division, then loses to rashad mainly due to breaking his hand. now for some reason forrest went from #1 to #5 just from having 1 loss. personally i think he deserved to be above rashad, as he beat better fighters and didn't exactly get destroyed in his loss like rashad was. for silva to move up a weight class and decimate him like he did does a great deal for his p4p ranking.

now im sure someone will bring up the point that silva is a HUGE middleweight and SHOULD be fighting at lhw. its a myth that anderson is a HUGE mw, there was one article that said he walks around at 220 (nowhere near fight time btw), and everyone went nuts. just look at his frame, he's tall, but very lanky. he's honestly around the same weight as hendo, marquadt and franklin, now if they can fight at mw why can't silva.


lets go through his 10 wins in the ufc, just to show you a broader view of exactly what he's accomplished.


chris leben - journeyman fighter. not worth too much but he is dangerous, and noone has ever beaten him like silva did.

rich franklin - was #1 mw at the time, looked to be due for a long title reign. silva comes in and literally bulldozes him

travis lutter - you may not think this win is that impressive, but keep in mind lutter won the first rounds against silva AND franklin. 

nate marquardt - definitely top 5 mw at the time.

rich franklin - pretty sure he was ranked #2 going into the rematch.

dan henderson - incredible fighter, who just had a war with rampage, he was thought to have the perfect style to beat silva. he wins the first round, then silva starts the second like a man possessed and makes henderson look like an amateur.

james irvin - tune up fight for lhw really, but showed that silva is capable of fighting in a higher weight class.

cote and leites - neither really deserved to be fighting silva at this point in time. cote was fortunate that okami was injured, and leites was the only contender left at mw who silva hadn't destroyed. they both were still on alot of peoples top 10 lists at the time, leites definitely was ranked.

forrest griffin - top 5 lhw, who had just lost the lhw title in his last fight.



compare those stats to gsp's wins within the same time frame and you can see silva's is better. fedor is still greatest of all time, but he hasn't fought nearly as often as he should if he wants to keep his no1 p4p rank.

right now i rank it as #1 silva, #2 gsp, #3 fedor.


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## hommage1985 (Apr 22, 2007)

GSP is the best fighter.


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## looney liam (Jun 22, 2007)

hommage1985 said:


> GSP is the best fighter.


watch silva/griffin one more time and tell me how exactly gsp will be able to resist getting KO'd if he fought silva


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## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

By taking Anderson down. Yes yes I know Silva has a ground game but 1. he probably wouldn't "ko" GSP on the ground (though he could possibly submit him) 2. I would think its the lesser of two evils because his standup is just insane.


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## Shadyen (Apr 8, 2007)

I still say GSP is #1. Dethroning Matt Hughes, to me, is more impressive than doing the same to Rich Franklin. No disrespect to Rich, of course.

Also, GSP has beaten another member of the top p4pers in BJ Penn, recently.

GSP's loss to serra is a huge strike against him, but Silva has losses too. just none in the UFC. 

I got 1. GSP 2. A. Silva 3. Fedor


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## looney liam (Jun 22, 2007)

dario03 said:


> By taking Anderson down. Yes yes I know Silva has a ground game but 1. he probably wouldn't "ko" GSP on the ground (though he could possibly submit him) 2. I would think its the lesser of two evils because his standup is just insane.


i agree gsp could take a few rounds using his wrestling. but every round starts in anderson silva's realm. he has a huge reach advantage over gsp, and his reactions are so fast that gsp couldn't just shoot in, he'd have to close distance and clinch first. silva doesn't have alot of power in his punches, but he has pin point accuracy, almost every punch landed is right on the button. so while gsp could get the take down, i'd say silva would land a shot on gsp sooner or later and finish him.

gsp hasn't finished anyone on the ground since matt serra, so i doubt he'll be able to finish a much bigger anderson silva there.



> Also, GSP has beaten another member of the top p4pers in BJ Penn, recently.


beating a p4p fighter doesn't mean much if he's smaller than you. penn is an awesome lw, but he's been shown to be nowhere near as good at ww. if anderson were to beat gsp i wouldn't rank him any higher p4p. gsp is the king of ww no doubt, but i don't think he could do the same at mw.


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## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

Yeah for those reasons I would have to favor Silva to win but I think GSP could win. Biggest thing is the starting at standing positions at the start of the round. I was actually just discussing that with my brother a few hours ago. Its one of the advantage for strikers.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Here's the problem for GSP. He doesn't have KO power as he grinds out the wins by GNP. He would have to do this for three to five rounds without making ONE mistake. Anderson "The Spider" Silva is ONE ******* DEADLY fighter I have never seen before and I think there's a general consensus in the MMA world. I mean WTF...how did he pick apart Forrest like that. Mind you I picked A. Silva to win by TKO, but not annihilate him in that fashion. That's just like...man...he showed the whole UFC, MMA community, and world that he came to take care of business. He even stated in his interview that he was going to KO him. Crazy shiet...


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## DrHouse (Aug 1, 2009)

I don't see how anyone could deny it anymore, if Anderson Silva does move up to LHW permanently then the GSP vs Silva fight will never happen since it was only really possible at middleweight, to me though GSP didn't seem to crazy about the idea after UFC 100. I don't think Fedor is close to Silva in terms of P4P, now that would be a superfight at 205, Fedor Emelianenko Vs. Anderson Silva, maybe it would have to be at a catchweight. For me top 3 P4P:

1. Anderson Silva
2. GSP
3. Fedor Emilianenko


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## awf (Jan 2, 2007)

Shadyen said:


> I still say GSP is #1. Dethroning Matt Hughes, to me, is more impressive than doing the same to Rich Franklin. No disrespect to Rich, of course.
> 
> Also, GSP has beaten another member of the top p4pers in BJ Penn, recently.
> 
> ...


Keep in mind.. GSP is 95% of the time the bigger fighter...


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## H-Deep (Feb 3, 2009)

As far as im concerned this isnt even a question any more. When gsp moves up a weight and is put outside his comfort zone and fights a former 185 champ then he can be bought back into the argument for the best p4p fighter, until then its anderson silva hands down. I mean look what he did last night, i knew he would win but i didnt ever think he would do what he did. Do you think gsp could do that to someone like Franklin, with a big size disadvantage? I doubt it

WAR SILVA


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## DahStoryTella (Jul 11, 2009)

H-Deep said:


> As far as im concerned this isnt even a question any more. When gsp moves up a weight and is put outside his comfort zone and fights a former 185 champ then he can be bought back into the argument for the best p4p fighter, until then its anderson silva hands down. *I mean look what he did last night, i knew he would win but i didnt ever think he would do what he did.* Do you think gsp could do that to someone like Franklin, with a big size disadvantage? I doubt it
> 
> WAR SILVA


co-signed


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## Chris32 (Sep 22, 2006)

The size difference between GSP and Silva is too great imo...I think Silva would knock GSP out fairly quickly. I love GSP (He and Silva are my two favourite fighters) but they are both legacy creating champs in their respective weight classes. (welterweight and MW respectively)


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

there shouldnt be any doubt that silva is p4p atm. he should even hold second plaze as well, the guy is sick


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## T.Bone (Oct 15, 2008)

I think I rate Silva as p4p king at the minute, with GSP a very close 2nd and that's only because of Fedor's current inactivity, otherwise Fedor will always be king.


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## Shadyen (Apr 8, 2007)

H-Deep said:


> Do you think gsp could do that to someone like Franklin, with a big size disadvantage? I doubt it


I think comparing Rich Franklin's title run and Forrest Griffin's title run is a bit unfair. Evan Tanner, if he were still with us, would be a better comparison. I do think that even an outsized GSP would beat a fighter of that caliber.

Also, Keith Jardine layed out Forrest in the first round of thier fight. It wasn't with the flare of Silva, but nonetheless.

I like both fighters very much. Even with Silva climbing weight for competition, I still like GSPs opponents better.


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## sprawlbrawl (Apr 28, 2008)

looney liam said:


> watch silva/griffin one more time and tell me how exactly gsp will be able to resist getting KO'd if he fought silva


because gsp is stupid to stand and trade with him he will take him down and ground and pound him .you cannot compare forrest and gsp gsp is way better at everything


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

sprawlbrawl said:


> because gsp is stupid to stand and trade with him he will take him down and ground and pound him .you cannot compare forrest and gsp gsp is way better at everything



gsp doesn't want any part of anderson, it was obvious after his fight with bj penn, when rogan asked him....he couldn't finish a slightly bigger striker in alves, how will he finish silva before he gets finished?, your crazy to think gsp has as much chance as forrest did.

forrest is the class of the light heavywieght division, he would murder gsp also.

gsp would lose to dan henderson, and nate marquette before he'd ever make it to a fight with anderson silva, so keep dreaming....i really have no need to see this masscre, and i can't believe i'm even talkin about it, cause its so crazy to even think otherwise.

*p4p list undoubtable:*
1.) anderson silva
2.) anderson silva
3.) anderson silva
4.) fedor
5.) gsp


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## kay_o_ken (Jan 26, 2009)

i would have to agree, i think gsp would put up a better fight than we've seen with silva but i dont see him lasting 5 rounds without getting tko'd


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

Anderson silva is the Micheal Jordan of this sport, there was never anyone like him before, and there will never be another one like him after. just sit back and enjoy the ride, becuase your never gonna witness something like this again, he only has a few fights left.


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## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

JoshKnows46 said:


> Anderson silva is the Micheal Jordan of this sport, there was never anyone like him before, and there will never be another one like him after. just sit back and enjoy the ride, becuase your never gonna witness something like this again, he only has a few fights left.


Quoted for truth.


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

JoshKnows46 said:


> gsp doesn't want any part of anderson, it was obvious after his fight with bj penn, when rogan asked him....he couldn't finish a slightly bigger striker in alves, how will he finish silva before he gets finished?, your crazy to think gsp has as much chance as forrest did.
> 
> forrest is the class of the light heavywieght division, he would murder gsp also.
> 
> ...


 I don't have any problem with Silva as the P4P king, and GSP would certainly have problems with Silva, but I wouldn't agree he has less chance than Griffin. There's a reason they put Forrest in against Silva, because they wanted him to charge in and get knocked out. And he did.

Obviously GSP would not fight that way, and he is vastly more skilled in all aspects of MMA than Griffin, the only thing Griffin has on GSP is size.

I'm not saying GSP would win easily, or win at all, I'd pick Silva for sure, but I have no doubt GSP would do a lot better than Forrest did last night. Griffin did the exact opposite of what you need to do to beat Silva, he charged in and tried to brawl. He is a good fighter, but that was just retarded on his part.

If Travis Doughboy Lutter can win a round off of Silva, it would be crazy to think GSP wouldn't at least have a chance at it.


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## H-Deep (Feb 3, 2009)

Finnsidious said:


> I don't have any problem with Silva as the P4P king, and GSP would certainly have problems with Silva, but I wouldn't agree he has less chance than Griffin. There's a reason they put Forrest in against Silva, because they wanted him to charge in and get knocked out. And he did.
> 
> Obviously GSP would not fight that way, and he is vastly more skilled in all aspects of MMA than Griffin, the only thing Griffin has on GSP is size.
> 
> ...


That Anderson silva is not the silva we see today.

The fact is if Dan Henderson couldnt do anything to Silva then what could gsp do, really come on guys. Hendo is a much bigger wrestler than gsp and after a round of laying on Silva he was eventually choked out. I have nothing but respect for Gsp, i love the guy but for him to move up to 185 would be a stupid move. No one and i repeat no one has done to griffin what Silva did yesterday. That list includes shogun, rampage, evans, jardine and lets be honest 3 out of 4 of those fighters are world class fighters and when i say world class i mean world class at 205. Silva made the forrest look like he didnt belong. I think thats the first time ive seen a fight where i was genuinely shocked with what happened, i knew silva would win but the way he won had me speechless.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

1. Fedor
2. GSP
3. Torres
4. Silva


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## xjerseyzfinestx (May 27, 2007)

I really cant believe that some people are saying if there should get a franklin 3?..i have to laugh at that...Silva looks so swift in the cage its insane...he literally makes his challengers look like fools. Forrest looked like an idiot last night..most fighters believe it or not just swing for the fences...silva is an on point striker its insane...he sees his opponents punches coming from a mile away...hands down he is untouchable in UFC.....me personally I feel if anyone should get a rematch it should be hendo...he gave a much MUCH better effort than franklin and the rest.....Henderson i think has a chance to take the belt away....Silva cant KO Hendo and the first fight he submitted hendo...which i think things could change the second round.


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

GSP should be behind Silva and Fedor

Behind....not ahead. 

GSP has more recent losses than Anderson and more decision fights. How would that rank him higher?


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## HeelHooker (Jun 27, 2009)

Anderson Vs Fedor is now more plausible than ever after that bitch slap he gave Forrest.


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## zarny (Mar 4, 2007)

I'm a huge GSP fan.

However given Silva's performance last night and 10 wins in a row I think he has to be considered the P4P best fighter in the world right now.


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## HeelHooker (Jun 27, 2009)

*Out Of the last 10 fights:*

*GSP:*
1 brutal loss, 4 decisions, 5 finishes

*A Silva:*
0 losses, 1 decision, 9 finishes (counting cote) -- 50% of those fights finishing in round one and 80% not getting past the second. He's fought in two divisions and has held his belt longer than anyone in the UFC...and also holds the longest winning streak in the UFC, and counting. 

Lastly, when was the last time GSP KOed anyone? That's right, *NEVER.*

Anderson has ended his matches in all the places GSP ended his, GSP hasn't ended his fights in all the places Anderson has.

Now will someone please explain to me why we're even mentioning St. Pierre's record in the same sentence as Anderson Silva's? :confused02:


Talk Fedor or Machida...St. Pierre's metal blanket hasn't graduated to that next, "untouched and untouchable" level yet.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

I am canadian and love GSP, but I can only see him winning on the ground, Dan henderson won 1 round against silva when he took him down... sure he lost but GSP's ground game is some of the best in MMA.

I am not giving the win to GSP but in 1 fight that would be a non title fight, I think GSP could hold him down for 1 round with ease and maybe squeak off a win in decision... GSP is fast but anderson is faster I think, not by much.

GSP wouldnt go into the fight thinking lets brawl like forrest did. He would be more focused on doing avoiding his punches and go in for quick strikes and back out, and try to take him to the ground.

what you saw displayed by forrest last night is no way to judge what could happen to GSP because he KO'ed someone who went swinging in recklessly against a VERY VERY accurate striker.


in the end, I dont think this fight will even happen. if the rumors are true then A.Silva wants to move up to LHW and i dont see him cutting back again to fight GSP. he has 3 fights left so MAYBE on his last fight in the UFC. he might try to make on one of the better fights in MMA also in GSP.

one can only just assume about that for the moment
I think Silva is BY FAR one of the most accurate strikers in MMA history. I would love if there was a percentage on his hit/miss.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

I'd just like to point this out. GSP has 8 tko victories in his career.

Ivan Menjivar, Travis Galbraith, Thomas Denny, Jay Hieron, Sean Sherk, Matt Hughes, Matt Serra, BJ Penn

A couple are tapout due to strikes and one cut but he is fully capable of dropping opponents. He has done it. WOuld he do it to SIlva...no but this is just a clarification for you, HeelHooker.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

I still think Fedor is #1. I cant really make a legitimate list though its way to close. I think Fedor is #1 simply because he is so dominant has the biggest win streak alive right now. And just no matter what happens in a fight he can win. Like I just cant see someone beating him.

honestly I cant see anyone beating the other big 3 either. I understand an argument for Anderson and Machida as top P4P fighters but I think GSP is a league below. The guy is just simply a better wrestler than everyone at 170 and can take them down whenever he wants. He is a smart fighter But I dont think he has the overall standup and finishing skills that all of the rest have.


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## HeelHooker (Jun 27, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> I'd just like to point this out. GSP has 8 tko victories in his career.
> 
> Ivan Menjivar, Travis Galbraith, Thomas Denny, Jay Hieron, Sean Sherk, Matt Hughes, Matt Serra, BJ Penn
> 
> A couple are tapout due to strikes and one cut but he is fully capable of dropping opponents. He has done it. WOuld he do it to SIlva...no but this is just a clarification for you, HeelHooker.


Deadmanshand, I said KOed, not TKOed.

GSP has NEVER KOed anyone in his career and has only finished 50% of his last 10 fights.

90% of Silva's last 10 fights finished, just one decision.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

TKO is just as good. Anything else is semantics.


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## zarny (Mar 4, 2007)

JoshKnows46 said:


> Anderson silva is the Micheal Jordan of this sport, there was never anyone like him before, and there will never be another one like him after. just sit back and enjoy the ride, becuase your never gonna witness something like this again, he only has a few fights left.




I agree Silva is currently at the top of the game.

Given the infancy of the sport I think it is foolish to say there will never be another like him again.

For starters the best natural athletes still predominantly migrate towards football, soccer, basketball, hockey and other major sports.

As well the top fighters today including Silva, GSP and Fedor all started by learning 1 style early in life and have been adding the "mixed" part of martial arts in their 20's and 30's.

As the sport grows and evolves I believe that will change. 

As odd as it sounds I look at golf and tennis for comparison. 

Neither is a major sport. There are some great players throughout history: Jack Nicklaus, Tom Watson, Rod Laver, John McEnroe, Jimmy Connors.

All good athletes; but they weren't the guy in high school that's good at every sport.

As both sports grew and the money got better the talent level got better. Along came Pete Sampras, Roger Federer, Nadal and of course Tiger Woods.

I don't think mma has seen it's Tiger Woods. 

Eventually I think we will see kids who have been mixing martial arts from the age of 5. Seamless transitions like GSP will become the norm in the sport; not the exception.

We'll see people with extreme athletic ability like Michael Jordan choose mma over basketball.


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## HeelHooker (Jun 27, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> TKO is just as good. Anything else is semantics.


There's a BIG difference.

A KO is putting someone to sleep with a single strike. That's a whole different thing from kneeing someone's ribs 10000 times before a ref's judgement steps in.

Silva can actually light a man's lights out with that single strike, as well as choke them out on the ground.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

steveo412 said:


> I still think Fedor is #1. I cant really make a legitimate list though its way to close. I think Fedor is #1 simply because he is so dominant has the biggest win streak alive right now. And just no matter what happens in a fight he can win. Like I just cant see someone beating him.
> 
> honestly I cant see anyone beating the other big 3 either. I understand an argument for Anderson and Machida as top P4P fighters but I think GSP is a league below. The guy is just simply a better wrestler than everyone at 170 and can take them down whenever he wants. He is a smart fighter But I dont think he has the overall standup and finishing skills that all of the rest have.


silva's current streak of undefeated since 2004, and 10 straight wins in the UFC, is way more impressive than fedors record 2x....there is a diffrents of compatition i think everyone would agree with, and anderson has actully moved up in wieght class.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

JoshKnows46 said:


> silva's current streak of undefeated since 2004, and 10 straight wins in the UFC, is way more impressive than fedors record 2x....there is a diffrents of compatition i think everyone would agree with, and anderson has actully moved up in wieght class.


Fedor is undefeated since 2000, but really is just undefeated. Winning his last 25 fights. How is Andersons more impressive than that. Fedor fought guys over 100 pounds heavier over a foot taller dont tell me that is not moving up.

Forrest is not that great of a fighter. He can just pull off wins sometimes, there is really nothing that special to him. Nogueira and Cro Cop in the prime are better victories than anyone Silva has beat.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

most of those giants that fedor fought sucked. the competition is much deeper at 185 and 205 where anderson is fighting. i mean cmon, zuluzhino? HMC? fedor has fought some great guys but the HW division has never been awesome. i think its still up in the air which guy is better, neither is getting old yet and each could turn the tables any time.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

HeelHooker said:


> There's a BIG difference.
> 
> A KO is putting someone to sleep with a single strike. That's a whole different thing from kneeing someone's ribs 10000 times before a ref's judgement steps in.
> 
> Silva can actually light a man's lights out with that single strike, as well as choke them out on the ground.


You also gotta consider the fact that fighters in smaller divisions have less KO power. Silva is a MW/LW and GSP is a WW. 

GSP would have a lot more KO power as a LHW than he has now as a WW.



looney liam said:


> watch silva/griffin one more time and tell me how exactly gsp will be able to resist getting KO'd if he fought silva


So because GSP'd get knocked out by Silva (who's almost 2 weight classes above him), he can't be ranked above him in the P4P rankings? :confused02:


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

steveo412 said:


> Fedor is undefeated since 2000, but really is just undefeated. Winning his last 25 fights. How is Andersons more impressive than that. Fedor fought guys over 100 pounds heavier over a foot taller dont tell me that is not moving up.
> 
> Forrest is not that great of a fighter. He can just pull off wins sometimes, there is really nothing that special to him. Nogueira and Cro Cop in the prime are better victories than anyone Silva has beat.


don't tell em the freak shows fedor fights are better than forrest, a guy that beat shogun, rampage, and outclassed evans in the striking game up in till the point were he was knocked out...yeah forrest is a compete turd, no skill at all, lol :confused02:

silva has fought the cream of the crop in the ufc middlewieght division, fedor fights a good opponete once in a blue moon, and him and his managment know he would have more chances to lose in the ufc, thats why he's overrated ass isn't in the ufc, and is still fighting in the minor leagues.

the 10 fight winning streak in THE UFC, is far more impressive.....the same ufc, that cro cop and nog were spose to dominate up intill the point they didn't, and all of a sudden they are out there prime, you can't make excuses like that everytime...cro cop was owned by kongo and gonazag, only average heavys in the ufc...nog was ko'd quickly by mir, something fedor could never do.


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## HeelHooker (Jun 27, 2009)

Xerxes said:


> You also gotta consider the fact that fighters in smaller divisions have less KO power. Silva is a MW/LW and GSP is a WW.
> 
> GSP would have a lot more KO power as a LHW than he has now as a WW.


Yet Shonie Carter, a much smaller and less powerful fighter actually has several KO's in his career as does Marcus Davis, Josh Koscheck etc. These men are less powerful than St Pierre yet they've KO'd someone at least once in their career.



> So because GSP'd get knocked out by Silva (who's almost 2 weight classes above him), he can't be ranked above him in the P4P rankings? :confused02:


No, it's not because of that, it's because of this:



HeelHooker said:


> *Out Of the last 10 fights:*
> 
> *GSP:*
> 1 brutal loss, 4 decisions, 5 finishes
> ...


Clearly GSP's resume is nowhere near the same league as the Spider's.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

silva is no. 1
although gsp is my favorite fighter, and i consider fedor the most complete mma fighter, but he hasn't fought any big name lately to solidify his status.

reguarding gsp vs silva. we can all consider silva a top 205-er. any objections??? i don't think so.
that's why, gsp vs silva could be one sided at this moment. the size advantage is huge at his moment. over 30 pounds. not even gsp could balance that bsize advantage. let's give him some time to figure things out. if he reaches 185, gsp, would still have to fight a bigger man.
it would be nice to see silva's striking vs. gsp's amazing wrestling.
time will tell


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## enufced904 (Jul 17, 2008)

Silva is definitely at the top of the list with GSP right behind him.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

HeelHooker said:


> *Out Of the last 10 fights:*
> 
> *GSP:*
> 1 brutal loss, 4 decisions, 5 finishes
> ...


Who says you have to KO someone to be the best? Damien Maia has never KO'd anyone and he could easily spend his career undefeated. Hes a wicked talented fighter.

But it boils down to what your qualifications for p4p really are.

The way I look at it is, GSP has fought better top contenders at WW than Anderson has at MW.

GSP - Parisyan, Hughes, Millers, Trigg, Sherk, Penn, Hughes, Serra, Kos, Hughes, Serra, Fitch, Penn, and Alves

Anderson - Leben, Franklin, Lutter, Marquardt, Franklin, Hendo, Cote, Leites. 
LHW - Irvin, Griffin



GSP's list is much more stacked at his respective weight class. Hes blown through them all minus his slip up with Serra. Just because he wins his fights different than Anderson doesn't mean hes not as good.


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## Halebop (Oct 10, 2006)

Silva is the #1 mythical P4P fighter in MMA and therefore he is the #1 P4P fighter in the the world. If GSP can jump up to 185 and start handing the competition their own ass (Hendo, Franklin, Marquardt, etc.) then he might re-enter the debate but for now GSP is in the top 3. The reason this debate is kind of pointless but always fun is that somehow I have now insulted GSP. GSP is awesome, we can't even come up with a good opponent to challenge him GSP at 170 but I do think its safe to say that who ever challenges GSP next and in the future is on their way to a 5 round decision loss. 

However how a champ wins should not be a point that distinguishes them from the competition but P4P isn't a measuring stick between competition because P4P candidates by in large will never face each other. 

Fedor in all likely hood is #1 P4P but until he is in line to fight the best in his weight class, it isn't fair to name him #1 P4P. GSP hasn't shown the ability to finish fights like one would expect from the baddest man on the planet. 

Silva has dominated every opponent who was not scared to mix it up with him. He redeemed the two lackluster title defenses. Give him someone who was not afraid to fight, he said, and he would show the world. Dana did and Silva did. 

Silva is unbeatable at 185 and his 205 fights have been even more devastating. Many fans are now asking this man to add 40lbs to his frame and fight the likes of Brock Lesnar. Until GSP gives reasons for us to think he could jump up to 205, the P4P debate is settled in my head. Silva is #1, Fedor #2, GSP #3


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Silva lost when he was 25 (decision, against Luiz Azeredo) in Vale Tudo, he got beat by Daiju Takese (triangle choke) and by Ryo Chonan (flying scissor heel hook) in Pride (technically lost three fights in Pride - one more to DQ). 

He is not invincible. His win streak is perhaps because of two things: his unbelievable stand-up, and the poor game planning and submission skills of UFC opponents. 

To think Fedor, an absolutely world class striker, TD artist, and submission specialist couldn't finish Silva is off-base. I know we're all stunned now by his performance against Forrest. But Forrest is by no means a technical striker, and he decided to go toe-toe-toe with one of the best technical strikers in the world. 

Silva's striking is clearly top 3 in the UFC, but his game is not well rounded enough yet to say he's the number 1 p4p fighter in the world.

edit: forgot to mention one thing about being a top p4p fighter:
You need to show resiliency and hunger. GSP tore his grown in the middle of a fight against maybe #2 or #3 welterweight in the world, and still dominated his opponent with almost no signs of slowing down.

Fedor has been rocked and still dominated the fight seconds later, dropped on his head (was hospitalized from the flu up until the fight as well) and still finished it in a very convincing fashion.

It seems like Silva is no longer hungry to win in MMA - evidenced by not only a few of his fights, but him wanting to leave MMA and box RJJ.


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## AHagglund (Jul 20, 2008)

I disagree with the above statement. I don't think resiliency has anything to do with it. Silva hasn't HAD to be resilient because he's won so easily. It's more impressive to me if someone is so good they don't even have to face adversity than if they overcome it.

yes, silva lost a few times when he was around GSP's age. I would go so far as to say that GSP is a much better fighter than Silva was at the same age. But if we're asking who is the better fighter right now based on recent performances, I don't understand how you could put GSP above Silva. GSP manhandles people for sure, but it's quite common that even after 25 minutes, his opponent is right there, ready to continue fighting.

GSP is an incredible fighter, and I don't see him losing for a long, long time. But based on past performances, Silva is better at the moment.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

JoshKnows46 said:


> don't tell em the freak shows fedor fights are better than forrest, a guy that beat shogun, rampage, and outclassed evans in the striking game up in till the point were he was knocked out...yeah forrest is a compete turd, no skill at all, lol :confused02:
> 
> silva has fought the cream of the crop in the ufc middlewieght division, fedor fights a good opponete once in a blue moon, and him and his managment know he would have more chances to lose in the ufc, thats why he's overrated ass isn't in the ufc, and is still fighting in the minor leagues.
> 
> the 10 fight winning streak in THE UFC, is far more impressive.....the same ufc, that cro cop and nog were spose to dominate up intill the point they didn't, and all of a sudden they are out there prime, you can't make excuses like that everytime...cro cop was owned by kongo and gonazag, only average heavys in the ufc...nog was ko'd quickly by mir, something fedor could never do.


Forrest fought the stupidest fight ever against Silva, he fought absolutely terrible. No wonder he got KOd, the guy isnt that great of a striker, he gets hit alot and doesnt hurt anyone with his punches. He is an easy matchup for Anderson.

Lol if you think that that was the same Cro Cop and Nog that fought in Pride your an idiot. Watch the fights. NOg just f-cking stands there while Mir punches him, he is way slower and just looks pathetic. Doesnt look at all the same. Cro Cop hasnt looked good in years. Who knows maybe they roided in Pride but you cant tell me they dont look pass there prime. 

When Nog was tearing throught the Pride HW division, known as the strongest division in the world at the time. Fedor walked right through him. Yes Anderson has never fought a guy as good as Nog or Cro Cop in there prime. The best guy he has fought is Dan Henderson, who is an awesome fighter but no Nog in his prime. 

I think Fedor is #1 p4p because he is a more complete fighter. He outstrikes strikers, he can take anyone down when he wants to and finishes fights however and whenever he wants. They guy has took shots that make him not look human to just shake off. Whenever he is in trouble he just stops f-ckin around and has the fight finished within a minute. Anderson is the best striker in MMA bar none. Nobody should try and stand with him I agree maybe Machida. But anyone who comes in to strike with him is an idiot. I think Anderson will fall to a good wreslter with good JJ as he has looked bad before off his back.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

AHagglund said:


> I disagree with the above statement. I don't think resiliency has anything to do with it. Silva hasn't HAD to be resilient because he's won so easily. It's more impressive to me if someone is so good they don't even have to face adversity than if they overcome it.
> 
> yes, silva lost a few times when he was around GSP's age. I would go so far as to say that GSP is a much better fighter than Silva was at the same age. But if we're asking who is the better fighter right now based on recent performances, I don't understand how you could put GSP above Silva. GSP manhandles people for sure, but it's quite common that even after 25 minutes, his opponent is right there, ready to continue fighting.
> 
> GSP is an incredible fighter, and I don't see him losing for a long, long time. But based on past performances, Silva is better at the moment.


GSP out strikes the best strikers at WW, outgrapples the best wrestlers, simply outclasses everyone in their own game...

Silva is the ONLY person on the p4p list with major holes in his game.

Think of it this way: 

How do you beat GSP? Striking? He's a world class counter-striker. Take downs and points? Untouchable in that sense. Submission? You can't roll with him on the ground and think you'll be dominant.

How do you beat Machida? There's no way yet. His ground game is superb, his stand-up is absolutely in a league by himself - in being unorthodox and in blinding technical skill. You can't beat him on the ground, in points, or by K.O..

How do you beat Silva? Same way the last three guys did.


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## Belfort (Aug 4, 2009)

JoshKnows46 said:


> Anderson silva is the Micheal Jordan of this sport, there was never anyone like him before, and there will never be another one like him after. just sit back and enjoy the ride, becuase your never gonna witness something like this again, he only has a few fights left.


Absolutly.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

I don't really care about p4p, all I need to know is that Fedor would beat both Anderson Silva (and everyone he's faced) and Georges St-Pierre (and everyone he's faced), and that makes him the best and the most dangerous fighter I've ever seen. Fedor would do the same with Griffin what Silva did on UFC 101 and Alves would lose too, so the recent victories of the most successful fighters don't change much. On the other hand, if Lyoto Machida keeps crushing light heavyweights, I'll think again who is the best.

Best fighters:
1) Fedor
2) Anderson
3) Georges
4) Lyoto


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

The_Senator said:


> I don't really care about p4p, all I need to know is that Fedor would beat both Anderson Silva (and everyone he's faced) and Georges St-Pierre (and everyone he's faced), and that makes him the best and the most dangerous fighter I've ever seen. Fedor would do the same with Griffin what Silva did on UFC 101 and Alves would lose too, so the recent victories of the most successful fighters don't change much. On the other hand, if Lyoto Machida keeps crushing light heavyweights, I'll think again who is the best.
> 
> Best fighters:
> 1) Fedor
> ...


thats not fair to gsp, and anderson to look at it that way, becuase its really easy to assume fedor would crush guys 2 and 3 wieght classes below him, LOL....pound for pound, means pound for pound.

and pound for pound silva has a 100% chance of beating everyone in his wieghtclass, 90% chance of beating everyone in the wieghtclass above him.....and 50% chance of beating fedor, who is in question for the 2nd best p4p...if anderson has even 50% chance to beating the best guy in the world who is 2 wieghtclasses above him, if their is even a question for that, he should be considered pound 4 pound the best without question....silva would crush the number 3 pound 4 pound in gsp, but i don't believe fedor would crush silva even though he is 2 wieght classes above him.

so pound for pound the best fighter is silva, without question....fedor has question marks, becuase he doesn't want to fight the best, he is avoiding the ufc, while silva is cleaning out 2 wieghtclasses in the UFC...silva will go down as the greatest fighter ever, fedor will go down as scotty pippen to his Jordan.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

Fedor would KO both of them at the same time.I seen Fedor mad one time and Nogueira paid the price.Crazy haymakers would KO GSP and then a flying armbar into Silva to end the fight 

But seriously not even on the same level as Fedor,If u put Hong Man Choi against GSP, GSP would get dominated so that means all of Fedors fights are 3 times harder .


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

Bknmax said:


> Fedor would KO both of them at the same time.I seen Fedor mad one time and Nogueira paid the price.Crazy haymakers would KO GSP and then a flying armbar into Silva to end the fight
> 
> But seriously not even on the same level as Fedor,If u put Hong Man Choi against GSP, GSP would get dominated so that means all of Fedors fights are 3 times harder .



no shit gsp would get dominated against hong man choi, he's 170 pounds.....hong man choi would chock slam gsp out the ring, on top of some little japanese dude, killing both gsp and the lil dude.

silva would knock hong man the **** out...siva would also Ko cro cop and nog in there primes, fedor couldn't finish nog.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

HMC is awful right now I might favor GSP in a fight against him ******* canseco landed on him and he has no sub defense or real takedown defense other than being huge.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

JoshKnows46 said:


> no shit gsp would get dominated against hong man choi, he's 170 pounds.....hong man choi would chock slam gsp out the ring, on top of some little japanese dude, killing both gsp and the lil dude.
> 
> silva would knock hong man the **** out...siva would also Ko cro cop and nog in there primes, fedor couldn't finish nog.


I actually don't think so, Hong would just overpower Silva,but my point is Hong is a joke to Fedor but he would still be trouble for both Silva and GSP wich makes Fedor #1


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

HeelHooker said:


> Yet Shonie Carter, a much smaller and less powerful fighter actually has several KO's in his career as does Marcus Davis, Josh Koscheck etc. These men are less powerful than St Pierre yet they've KO'd someone at least once in their career.


Lol, I'm talking in average dude. Why do you think in average, there are more LW and WW fights going the distance than LHW or HW fights? You're comparing the KO power of a 170er with one of a 185-205er, which I find silly at best. GSP would have far more KO power as a LHW than he has now as a WW. 




> No, it's not because of that, it's because of this:
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly GSP's resume is nowhere near the same league as the Spider's.


like Terror Kovenant said. MMA and P4P rankings aren't just about KO power, otherwise someone like Houston Alexander who has tremendous KO power would be considered top 10 P4P lol... 

You decided to base your whole argument on both fighters' last 10 fights and compared how they won but these are your own criteria. How about we compare their most recent fights, let's say last 5 and see who's faced the better competition between the 2? 

AS: Henderson (A level MW), Irvin (C level LHW), Cote (B level MW), Leites (B-C level MW), Griffin (A-B level LHW)

GSP: Thiago Alves (A level WW), Matt Hughes (A-B level WW when they fought), Matt Serra (B level WW), Jon Fitch (A level WW), BJ Penn (B level WW and A level LW)

So from this perspective, even though AS went up in weight twice, it's clear to me that GSP's beaten the better competition at WW more consistently. GSP's list of wins at WW is better than AS's list of wins at MW, but AS went up in weight succesfully. So I'd say it's arguable.


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

He was #1 before the fight. Now he's #1.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

D.P. said:


> He was #1 before the fight. Now he's #1.


quoto'd for truth....thank you :thumbsup:

all you have to say....is 10 fight winning streak in the ufc, most of those title fights. DONE.


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## HeelHooker (Jun 27, 2009)

Xerxes said:


> Lol, I'm talking in average dude. Why do you think in average, there are more LW and WW fights going the distance than LHW or HW fights? You're comparing the KO power of a 170er with one of a 185-205er, which I find silly at best. GSP would have far more KO power as a LHW than he has now as a WW .


But you`re deliberately omitting the examples I cited.

Lets compare GSP to the examples I gave (who actually fight in his weightclass). He still is on the low end of the KO totem pole, even compared against some lightweights.

By the way, KO power is also relative to the chin you`re punching and GSP is not punching at Forrest Griffin. Gina `friggin`Carano has two KO`s and she`s 141 lbs and Jens Pulver has 8 KO`s and he`s 145 lbs. Swoosh! Your excuse out the window.




> So from this perspective, even though AS went up in weight twice, it's clear to me that GSP's beaten the better competition at WW more consistently. GSP's list of wins at WW is better than AS's list of wins at MW, but AS went up in weight succesfully. So I'd say it's arguable.


Ah, the Anderson hasn`t fought quality fighters shtick never gets old.

He finishes Hendo, finishes a former LHW champ, finishes Marquardt, finishes Franklin twice (and does it all in 2 rounds or less); get`s on a previously unheard of 9 win streak (now 10); defends his belt consecutively more times than any fighter in the UFC`s history; _does not get TKOed by Serra...does not get TKOed by Matt Serra...I repeat for clarity, does not get his brains scrambled by a pint-sized, tubby natural lightweight (however flukish)_; he only suffers a single decision out of his 10 fights (as opposed to 4 decisions and a loss for GSP) and now the goal posts are being shifted to subjective terrain...the quality of contenders.

Once we shift across this silly line, it`s an excercise in futility continuing the discussion. 

All I know is that I`ll go by the objective record. Silva`s numbers speak for themselves.

Think about it, if you`re fighting against Silva, statistically, you`re likely to get subbed, TKOed, or KOed within the first two rounds 80% of the times or brutally stopped in the first round 50% of the times.

The numbers don`t lie...so no, I won`t get hooked into the last desperate measure to validate GSP as being in the same league as Anderson, Fedor or Machida, ie. subjectively determining the quality of their opponents. They used to say that the LHW division was so rich with talent that there was no way Anderson could negotiate the field of landmines without getting wrecked. Yet thus far the LHW division has looked far much easier for Anderson than MW.

So this quality fighter debate is asinine and not worth any furtherence.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

HeelHooker said:


> But you`re deliberately omitting the examples I cited.
> 
> Lets compare GSP to the examples I gave (who actually fight in his weightclass). He still is on the low end of the KO totem pole, even compared against some lightweights.


Dude, this isn't the ultimate KO championship. Not because AS has more KO power P4P than GSP that it should automatically put him higher in the P4P rankings. Every fighter have their own style, AS hurts/TKO's people standing and finishes them up on the ground and GSP outwrestles his opponents to finish them with GnP. Anderson is an amazing striker and GSP an amazing wrestler/grappler. I just find your criteria way too bias towards strikers TBH. 




> Ah, the Anderson hasn`t fought quality fighters shtick never gets old.


When did I even say that? I said GSP's fought the better competition at WW than AS has at MW. When has GSP fought the equivalent of Lutter, Cote or Leites at WW? 



> He finishes Hendo, finishes a former LHW champ, finishes Marquardt, finishes Franklin (twice), get`s on a previously unheard of 9 win streak (now 10), defends his belt more times than any fighter in the UFC, does not get knocked out by Serra, only suffers a single decision out of his 10 fights (as opposed to 4 by GSP) and now the goal posts are being shifted to subjective terrain...the quality of contenders.


I hear you but there isn't subjectivity in the quality of contenders either. GSP defeated more top 10 WWs throughout his career than AS defeated top 10 MWs. This is a fact. 



> Once we shift across this silly line, it`s an excercise in futility continuing the discussion.
> 
> All I know is that I`ll go by the objective record. Silva`s numbers speak for themselves.
> 
> Think about it, if you`re fighting against Silva, statistically, you`re likely to get subbed, TKOed, or KOed within the first two rounds, 80% of the times or brutally stopped 50% of the times in the first round.


Well, if you want to talk statistics, Silva holds one submission victory in the UFC (Lutter was a sub via elbow strikes) and GSP 2. So statistically while you're more likely to get TKO'd by Silva, you're more likely to get subbed by GSP. But I guess this doesn't matter as TKOs hold much more importance in your world :sarcastic12:



> The numbers don`t lie...so no, I won`t get hooked into the last desperate measure to validate GSP as being in the same league as Anderson or *Machida*, ie. subjectively debating the quality of fighters. They used to say that the LHW division was so rich with talent that there was no way Anderson could negotiate the field of landmines without getting wrecked. Yet thus far the LHW division has looked far much easier for Anderson than MW.
> 
> So this quality fighter debate is asinine and not worth any furtherence.


LOL @ you bringing up Machida in your argument, a fighter who has a very low TKO ratio and a tiny one for a LHW. Double standard much? 

This is where your whole argument, nuthuggery for AS/Machida and hate for GSP get exposed.


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## Breadfan (Jan 3, 2008)

I'd put Silva slightly above GSP, because where GSP has dominated his weight class, Silva has dominated his own and has a decent start on the one above him.

Each pound of Silva is slightly better grade meat than one of GSP.


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## HeelHooker (Jun 27, 2009)

Xerxes said:


> Well, if you want to talk statistics, Silva holds one submission victory in the UFC (Lutter was a sub via elbow strikes) and GSP 2. So statistically while you're more likely to get TKO'd by Silva, you're more likely to get subbed by GSP. But I guess this doesn't matter as TKOs hold much more importance in your world :sarcastic12:


Lutter was in the match against Silva and after he tapped out, he claimed he could barely feel the strikes and that he'd tapped out because he was about to pass out. 

I think I'd sooner take his word and that of the UFC and the Boxing commision than yours. Silva has two submissions in the UFC.



> This is where your whole argument, nuthuggery for AS/Machida and hate for GSP get exposed.


I don't know GSP to hate him nor am I close enough to AS/Machida to hang on their scrotums but I do know their stats are far more impressive than GSP's. He's highly popular with you, understandely, but not as highly with the record book, at least when that UFC record is weighed against Silva's.

As for "quality competition" this or that, like I said, that line of arguing is somewhat "grade school" and thus I won't get lurred into it.

You can determine, in your great wisdom, what a quality fighter is and I'll follow the stats instead. A. Silva's record speaks for itself, as does Machida's.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

GSP has beaten better fighters than Silva, but he has a few losses on his record, which does make a difference. I'd like to see GSP go up to 185 and fight some people, similar to how Silva is doing is at 205. If GSP can get through some good 185'ers, then we should him and Silva fight.


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## TIME (Dec 31, 2006)

To this day, I'm not really sure what pound for pound really means.

But, for me, Anderson Silva is the most impressive MMA fighter I have ever seen. Closely followed by Fedor, and then Machida and GSP.

I've been following the sport since UFC #1 and Silva is the best I've seen. Someone made a Michael Jordan comparison, which is not bad, but there you at least have a Kobe to compare.

I would say the better comparison would be to a pre-prison Muhammad Ali. The man was unhittable. He literally toyed with opponents. His reaction / anticipation was in a league of its own, which Silva's performance against Forrest demonstrates.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

If you like to think of it skillwise, striking, wrestling/tdd, ground when you sum up their performances in comparison to one another.

GSP: 26.5

Striking: 8.5
Wrestling/tdd: 10
Ground: 9

Silva: 25.5

Striking: 10
Wrestling/tdd: 7.5
Ground: 8

Fedor: 24.5

striking: 8
wrestling/tdd: 9
ground: 7.5

now, considering GSP and Silva are so close you have to give it to Silva. Why? The level of fighters he has fought, how many of them have been champs/former champs and how he wins fights are all superior to GSP. Grinding out 5 round matches in my opinion is nowhere near as impressive as winning fights in boxing, the clinch and with submissions on the ground. He's more of an all around fighter than GSP and poses a threat in all areas of the game. While GSP did knockout Hughes, that was a long time ago and I think you have to compare recent standings as opposed to the past. However there is room for argument based on the leites/cote fights and the finishing of BJ and Serra. That being said, it's splitting hairs and in the end both guys are excellent fighters at the top of the game.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

rabakill said:


> If you like to think of it skillwise, striking, wrestling/tdd, ground when you sum up their performances in comparison to one another.
> 
> GSP: 26.5
> 
> ...


Lol your stat for Fedors ground is a joke. Fedor is the best HW ground fighter bar none. His submissions are unmatched by anyone, and his GnP is second to none in all of MMA. Giving him a ten would be to low when comparing how much better it is than the competition. His standup should be ranked better than GSPs to, the guy has never really been beat standing in an MMA fight. CLosest was Arlovski and he KOd him in the first.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

rabakill said:


> If you like to think of it skillwise, striking, wrestling/tdd, ground when you sum up their performances in comparison to one another.
> 
> GSP: 26.5
> 
> ...


gsp striking, and ground should both be 7, he wins fights with his wrestling, and he's wrestlin along...if your a good fighter on the ground, but not as good on the feet, then he will strike with you, he has good gameplans, but his striking doesn't deserve more than a 7, and his bjj isn't that great to deserve a 9, anderson and fedor's bjj is miles ahead of gsp.

anderson's ground, bjj is better than gsp's, so i don't know why you gave him a lower score there?

fedor should have a 10 on the ground, without a doubt...and i don't see how you can put gsp's striking higher than fedor's either?


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Great post. 

But keep in mind GSP is only 27 years old and Anderson is 33; this means GSP still has a lot of time to improve on his already formidable game. 

Anderson, like Machida, is untouchable in the standup; whereas GSP is unstoppable as a wrestler. Pick your poison.



HeelHooker said:


> Ah, the Anderson hasn`t fought quality fighters shtick never gets old.
> 
> He finishes Hendo, finishes a former LHW champ, finishes Marquardt, finishes Franklin twice (and does it all in 2 rounds or less); get`s on a previously unheard of 9 win streak (now 10); defends his belt consecutively more times than any fighter in the UFC`s history; _does not get TKOed by Serra...does not get TKOed by Matt Serra...I repeat for clarity, does not get his brains scrambled by a pint-sized, tubby natural lightweight (however flukish)_; he only suffers a single decision out of his 10 fights (as opposed to 4 decisions and a loss for GSP) and now the goal posts are being shifted to subjective terrain...the quality of contenders.
> 
> ...


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

JoshKnows46 said:


> anderson's ground, bjj is better than gsp's, so i don't know why you gave him a lower score there?
> 
> fedor should have a 10 on the ground, without a doubt...and i don't see how you can put gsp's striking higher than fedor's either?



Anderson's ground game is not impressive. He's a BJJ black belt, but so is everyone else now.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

HeelHooker said:


> Lutter was in the match against Silva and after he tapped out, he claimed he could barely feel the strikes and that he'd tapped out because he was about to pass out.
> 
> I think I'd sooner take his word and that of the UFC and the Boxing commision than yours. Silva has two submissions in the UFC.


What does the _boxing commission_ have to do with this? Yeah I believe it, Travis held his breath for a minute and a half (the time he was being controlled by the triangle) before tapping. /sarcasm

If Lutter was subbed by the triangle only, he would have tapped much sooner than that and Anderson wouldn't have had to strike an already rocked by the upkick and gassed Lutter so many times for him to give up. 

Anyway even if you want to count it, throughout their whole careers GSP holds 5 sub victories out of 21 wins (nearly 24%) and AS 4 out of 25 (16%). GSP was subbed once (by Matt Hughes) and Silva twice (by frikkin Takase and Chonan). Their records speak for themselves as you say. 



> I don't know GSP to hate him nor am I close enough to AS/Machida to hang on their scrotums but I do know their stats are far more impressive than GSP's. He's highly popular with you, understandely, but not as highly with the record book, at least when that UFC record is weighed against Silva's.


I called you out on it because you questioned GSP's P4P status arguing he can't KO people and how he should definitely be below AS as he (AS) can KO people at will etc., and in your next post you're saying GSP isn't in the same league as AS and *Machida* (a fighter with a tiny TKO rate as a LHW). Hypocritical much? 

There's a reason why every official P4P rankings have GSP over Machida, yet you claim GSP isn't in Machida's league. :confused02:
This is where in my opinion your whole argument gets exposed and discredited, as one that's very biased towards AS and Machida and/or against GSP. 



> As for "quality competition" this or that, like I said, that line of arguing is somewhat "grade school" and thus I won't get lurred into it.
> 
> You can determine, in your great wisdom, what a quality fighter is and I'll follow the stats instead. A. Silva's record speaks for itself, as does Machida's.


By "quality of competition" I meant "top 10s" and I explained it to you several times already, so stop making it sound like this is a subjective notion that's hard to quantify. I'm not the one doing the different official MMA rankings over the years. I just brought up a *fact* for you to consider: 

- GSP's defeated more top 10 WWs throughout his career than Silva defeated top 10 MWs. 

Another one being: 

- AS has a more losses on his record than GSP, and a lot more than Fedor. 


There's a reason why these P4P discussions are endless and will always be. First of all, half of the people debating about it don't understand the concept, second, everybody has different criteria to determine who's #1, and given these criteria, an argument could be made for AS, GSP or Fedor to be #1. If you're looking at longest win streak, well roundedness, finishing power, an argument could be made for Fedor. If you're looking at quality of competition (top 10s), well roundedness, it could be GSP. If you're looking at KO power, longest title defenses, ability to dominate the above weigh class, it could be AS etc.


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## IDL (Oct 19, 2006)

JoshKnows46 said:


> gsp striking, and ground should both be 7, he wins fights with his wrestling, and he's wrestlin along...if your a good fighter on the ground, but not as good on the feet, then he will strike with you, he has good gameplans, but his striking doesn't deserve more than a 7, and his bjj isn't that great to deserve a 9, anderson and fedor's bjj is miles ahead of gsp.
> 
> anderson's ground, bjj is better than gsp's, so i don't know why you gave him a lower score there?
> 
> fedor should have a 10 on the ground, without a doubt...and i don't see how you can put gsp's striking higher than fedor's either?


Actually GSP has been out striking really great strikers as of late. Alves and BJ Penn are both considered excellent and GSP I would say out struck them. The only thing GSP lacks in his stand up is KO power.

GSP is more known for his wrestling/GNP and Silva is more known for his striking but both are excellent in other areas as well.

P4P arguments will never be settled as everyone has their own criteria.
When GSP fights next and dominates again people will be posting how he HAS to be p4p. Same as Fedor, Anderson


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

rabakill said:


> If you like to think of it skillwise, striking, wrestling/tdd, ground when you sum up their performances in comparison to one another.
> 
> GSP: 26.5
> 
> ...


Interesting post. This is how I'd rate it:

GSP: 

Striking: 7.5 (- 1 compared to you)
Wrestling/tdd: 10
Ground: 9
= 26.5 (you miscalculated GSP's btw)


Silva: 

Striking: 10
Wrestling/tdd: 7 (- .5)
Ground: 8.5 (+ .5)
= 25.5 (same as you)


Fedor:

striking: 9 (+ 1)
wrestling/tdd: 8 (- 1)
ground: 9.5 (+ 2)
= 26.5


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

IDL said:


> Actually GSP has been out striking really great strikers as of late. Alves and BJ Penn are both considered excellent and GSP I would say out struck them. The only thing GSP lacks in his stand up is KO power.
> 
> GSP is more known for his wrestling/GNP and Silva is more known for his striking but both are excellent in other areas as well.
> 
> ...


:confused02:

he didn't really out strike them, those fights stayed on the ground for the most part...if it was in a pure kickboxing/boxing match with bj or alves, he'd get knocked out...he's not a better striker than either guy.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Xerxes said:


> Interesting post. This is how I'd rate it:
> 
> GSP:
> 
> ...




If Fedor on the ground is 9.5, and let's assume Demian Maia is about a 10, how the hell could GSP be a 9. He doesn't have a lot of impressive submissions or GNPs under his belt. He's amazing at taking someone to the ground and keeping them there, but he doesn't go for submissions like someone with a 9 would.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> Anderson's ground game is not impressive. He's a BJJ black belt, but so is everyone else now.


its alot more impressive than gsp's....i wouldn't say he's as good as fedor, but i'd say he's alot better than gsp, for someone that stays on the ground for 5 straight 5 minute rounds in most of his fights with out getting a submission, thats pretty shitty....out of all the time and chances he has, i might give him a 5 or 6 in that area.

you take anderson down, or he gets on you, it takes him around 2 minutes to get a submittion, see lutter and henderson fights...if he doesn't want the submittion he lets you up, he doesn't lay upon you for 5 straight 5 minute rounds, without a sub...he gets the sub or he lets you up. fedor wont **** around with you too long on the ground either before he throws up a armbar(with the exeption of nog, spiders bjj master).


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> If Fedor on the ground is 9.5, and let's assume Demian Maia is about a 10, how the hell could GSP be a 9. He doesn't have a lot of impressive submissions or GNPs under his belt. He's amazing at taking someone to the ground and keeping them there, but he doesn't go for submissions like someone with a 9 would.


Fair point. Let's say GSP 8.5 but in this case, I'd have AS as an 8 as I believe GSP is slightly above him MMA BJJ wise. I'd still have Fedor as a 9/9.5.


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## IDL (Oct 19, 2006)

JoshKnows46 said:


> :confused02:
> 
> he didn't really out strike them, those fights stayed on the ground for the most part...if it was in a pure kickboxing/boxing match with bj or alves, he'd get knocked out...he's not a better striker than either guy.


He out struck them during the standing portions of their fight. 
This is MMA after all so pure skills matches are not a good comparison, it's who can apply them in MMA context. If that were the case we could say Matt hughes was better in the wrestling department even though GSP outwrestles him in MMA.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

khoveraki said:


> If Fedor on the ground is 9.5, and let's assume Demian Maia is about a 10, how the hell could GSP be a 9. He doesn't have a lot of impressive submissions or GNPs under his belt. He's amazing at taking someone to the ground and keeping them there, but he doesn't go for submissions like someone with a 9 would.


I would say Fedor has an equally good ground game to Maia. Yah Maia obviously has the better JJ. But Fedors Armbars off his back and Kimuras are really a thing of beauty. I definetly would give Fedor a 10 though just for having the best GnP in MMA. Maia doesnt have this but Maia doesnt need this. I would give both a ten.

Giving GSP a ten in Wrestling and Anderson a ten in striking is an insult to Fedor to not give him a ten in Ground.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

fedor is a 10 on the ground.

how are people saying gsp is better on the ground when he stays on people for such long periods of time without getting a submittion, while anderson subbed lutter and henderson when he spent far less time with them on the ground.....if one person has around 3 minutes on the ground combined for 2 fights and gets 2 subs, and another person spends 45 minutes or sumtin like that and gets no subs, how can he be better on the ground?

gsp has so much time to pull off something and he doesn't, he is horrible on the ground, with the comparison of how long he is down there.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

GSP is not horrible on the ground. He is just a low risk conservative fighter. He goes in there to win rounds. He has some of the best control on the ground and he is not going to be finished down there. he just chooses to win fights with wrestling. He is a good ground fighter but just doesnt finish often. Doesnt really make for exciting ground fighting thats for sure.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

steveo412 said:


> GSP is not horrible on the ground. He is just a low risk conservative fighter. He goes in there to win rounds. He has some of the best control on the ground and he is not going to be finished down there. he just chooses to win fights with wrestling. He is a good ground fighter but just doesnt finish often. Doesnt really make for exciting ground fighting thats for sure.


i think his great base and control on the ground would be considered apart of his wrestling...which is a 10.

when i think of good ground games, i think of his bjj, tko's and tap outs....i don't think his bjj is close to anderson's...he's horrible on the ground imo, and that is why its so boring, he can't tko, or sub many people from that spot, and he can't really past to many peoples guard and improve his posistion, and even when he does, he gets put right back into their guard.

I agree, i love fedor, maia, and lesners ground game..... but i can't stand guys like sherk, gsp, and hughes, drives me crazy, i'd rather stick a fork in my eye.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

steveo412 said:


> Lol your stat for Fedors ground is a joke. Fedor is the best HW ground fighter bar none. His submissions are unmatched by anyone, and his GnP is second to none in all of MMA. Giving him a ten would be to low when comparing how much better it is than the competition. His standup should be ranked better than GSPs to, the guy has never really been beat standing in an MMA fight. CLosest was Arlovski and he KOd him in the first.


I give him such a low rating because of the level of guys he has actually submitted and beat on the ground. I mean, yeah he's had a streak of arm barring everybody and their cat, but subbing guys like coleman and randleman isn't that impressive when they are the best he's had thrown at him. Subbing Hong-man Choi and Tim Syvlia just isn't that unimpressive at all. I gave him a 7 in ground fighting only in comparison to GSP and Silva when you include both ground and pound, defense/off the back and submission offense/defense. The general level of competition of fighters Fedor has fought on the ground is no where near the ground fighting capabilities of GSP's or Silva's opponents. I had a reason for giving him a 7. Let me be clear I was just comparing the 3 fighters against eachother, not on A subjective scale that would fit every fighter.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

rabakill said:


> I give him such a low rating because of the level of guys he has actually submitted and beat on the ground. I mean, yeah he's had a streak of arm barring everybody and their cat, but subbing guys like coleman and randleman isn't that impressive when they are the best he's had thrown at him. Subbing Hong-man Choi and Tim Syvlia just isn't that unimpressive at all. *I gave him a 7 in ground fighting only in comparison to GSP and Silva when you include both ground and pound, defense/off the back and submission offense/defense.* The general level of competition of fighters Fedor has fought on the ground is no where near the ground fighting capabilities of GSP's or Silva's opponents. I had a reason for giving him a 7. Let me be clear I was just comparing the 3 fighters against eachother, not on A subjective scale that would fit every fighter.


Lol who have GSP and Silva ever subbed, a washed up Matt Hughes and a completely Gassed Travis Lutter. Fedor's rating on the ground is a ten with no other HW being equal to it. He smashed Nog on the ground with vicious GnP like it was nothing when he was the best JJ HW in the game. Subbing a guy like Randleman isnt impressive even if he just suplexed you and almost broke your neck, then you flip him over like hes not even there and Kimura an extremely strong fighter like he was a ten year old girl. Please if you dont give Fedor a ten on the ground your ratings are a complete joke and dont mean anything.


Fedor is better in every category that is in bold easily. I dont see how anyone could disagree with that. He has 16 submission wins in 30 fights to a combined 8 submissions in 44 fights between silva and GSP combined. Fedor has never been submitted while they have a total of 3 submission losses. Now tell me who should gets the ten.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

I don't care for fedor much, and i even know he's a 10 on the ground, and thats only becuase they don't have a 11.....a 10 doesn't even cut it.


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## looney liam (Jun 22, 2007)

steveo412 said:


> Lol who have GSP and Silva ever subbed, a washed up Matt Hughes and a completely Gassed Travis Lutter.


just because you don't go for submissions doesn't mean you don't have them. plus, anderson silva choked out hendo. gsp prefers to beat his opponent down on the ground, he'll only attempt a submission if his opponent blatantly leaves it open to him. silva never really goes on the ground, and when he does go down he is more concerned about getting to his feet than anything.


i never really liked rating fighters for how well rounded they are. you take a guy thats good at everything, and put him against a great striker with tdd and he's going to get beaten up. 

each of the p4p contenders have amazing skills that allow them to dominate. gsp's wrestling and gnp is so good that he can dominate anyone with it. anderson silva's striking can make the best of fighters look plain silly. fedor is the true well rounded fighter out of the bunch and can pretty much win from any position, but this doesn't make him better. in the end it comes to how they utilize their skills to win fights.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

looney liam said:


> just because you don't go for submissions doesn't mean you don't have them. plus, anderson silva choked out hendo. gsp prefers to beat his opponent down on the ground, he'll only attempt a submission if his opponent blatantly leaves it open to him. silva never really goes on the ground, and when he does go down he is more concerned about getting to his feet than anything.
> 
> 
> i never really liked rating fighters for how well rounded they are. you take a guy thats good at everything, and put him against a great striker with tdd and he's going to get beaten up.
> ...


Hey I am in no way saying that they are bad fighters on the ground. They have both showed they can hang in all aspects of the game. No disagree that GSP has subs I know what he can do. I am just saying Fedor is better on the ground. GSP is great Fedor is Awesome. No disrespect to GSP but if your ranking Ground games Fedor is a ten. GSP is good but not as good.


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## Guy (Feb 17, 2008)

Fedor can win the match literally anywhere it goes (standing and ground) where GSP can only win it on the ground and Silva can only win on the feet.

Think about it this way, if GSP couldn't take down his opponent for whatever reason and had no other option, but to strike with a great striker, does anyone actually think he would win?

If Silva had no other option, but to be on the ground with a great grappler and couldn't get back on his feet to strike, does anyone actually think he would win?

Fedor could win with whatever stipulations, that's how incredibly well-rounded he is.


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## Halebop (Oct 10, 2006)

Guy said:


> If Silva had no other option, but to be on the ground with a great grappler and couldn't get back on his feet to strike, does anyone actually think he would win?


That's an unreasonably big "if" IMO. He might not win if it were Grappler's Quest but in MMA fights Silva has shown an uncanny ability to avoid damage during his short rendevues with the mat and he keeps getting to his feet and beating a Win out of his opponent without making it look difficult.


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## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

1. Silva
2. GSP
3. Fedor


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

JoshKnows46 said:


> you take anderson down, or he gets on you, it takes him around 2 minutes to get a submittion, see lutter and henderson fights...if he doesn't want the submittion he lets you up, he doesn't lay upon you for 5 straight 5 minute rounds, without a sub...he gets the sub or he lets you up. fedor wont **** around with you too long on the ground either before he throws up a armbar(with the exeption of nog, spiders bjj master).


Yeah, but you can't submit GSP (unless you're matt hughes, once) and you can't take him down without him instantly controlling you. 




steveo412 said:


> I would say Fedor has an equally good ground game to Maia. Yah Maia obviously has the better JJ. But Fedors Armbars off his back and Kimuras are really a thing of beauty. I definetly would give Fedor a 10 though just for having the best GnP in MMA. Maia doesnt have this but Maia doesnt need this. I would give both a ten.
> 
> Giving GSP a ten in Wrestling and Anderson a ten in striking is an insult to Fedor to not give him a ten in Ground.



I agree, Maia and Fedor are probably both a 10 in submission. And Fedor also has unbelievable GnP, so that's like a 10 + 10 on the ground.

And let's not pretend Silva's some confident ground fighter. If Leites fell intentionally in a match against GSP or Fedor... well, he wouldn't. GSP would have him down there getting frustrated and Fedor would have murdered him in any number of ways.

Silva has an exploitable weak spot, end of story. His BJJ is probably unbelievable, but we're talking world champions and the best fighters of our generation.


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## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

*p4p is what losers argue over dnd*

Silva has said himself that "Machida has the SKILLS to beat me" and that " I won't fight him because he would beat me" enough, so that is that. P4P is stupid is as stupd as you virgin losers living in your parent's basement ya thats true..yeah thought so, still working on your p4p novel yeah that's right LOL...your the baddest man on the planet aka Brock Lesnar than he is laughing at you girls arguing about NOTHING...


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Are you like... the evil Kantowrestler? :confused02:


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## Breadfan (Jan 3, 2008)

Can we get a mod to IP check this guy and tell us what their real SN is? I don't like it when people make second account for stuff like this.


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## KryptoNITE^^ (Jul 27, 2009)

TERMINATOR said:


> 1. Silva
> 2. GSP
> 3. Fedor


2008 troll?

How can you rank A.Silva and GSP above Fedor? Are you a moron?

Considering GSP got KTFO by Matt ******* Serra and A.Silva has not fought the #1 LHW yet. (And prob never will since Machida and Silva are butt buddies. A win over Forrest who got ko'd by jardine/horn isn't good enough)

Who is 4 on your list? Miguel Torres? LOL.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

KryptoNITE^^ said:


> 2008 troll?
> 
> How can you rank A.Silva and GSP above Fedor? Are you a moron?
> 
> ...



chill out

and forrest was the former lightheavywieght champ, beat the number 1 guy in shogun, than beat the new number 1 guy in rampage, and beat the shit out of the current number 3, in evans, for 3 straight rounds....who cares if anderson will never fight the number 1 lhw, he just totally wreaked a former champ a wieght class above him, and cleaned out his division...fedor and his managment are scared of the comp in their own wieght class in the ufc, while anderson is cleaning out two division's in the ufc, so he shouldn't even be mentioned in the same name with anderson at this point.

i agree he should be number 2, but it isn't that outragious for someone to believe gsp deserves the spot more than him, its very close, again gsp has cleaned out his division, and fedor is yet to fight the top of his, its really splitting hairs here...and it defintly didn't deserve that response from you.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

KryptoNITE^^ said:


> 2008 troll?
> 
> How can you rank A.Silva and GSP above Fedor? Are you a moron?
> 
> ...


Well, since you want to unnecessarily attack people, what is your list so we can ask you if you are a moron.

Any why does it matter that Silva hasn't fought the #1 at LHW? What #1 in any other weight class has Fedor fought? None, so that point of yours is completely worthless. 

Also, if you want to count most recent high quality wins, recent being in the past 3 years, they all have wins over a ton of good people. However, Fedor has the least. 

GSP - Hughes x2, Penn x2, Kos, Serra, Fitch and Alves = 8 top opponents

Silva - Franklin x2, Marquardt, Cote, Griffin, Henderson, Leites = 7

Fedor - Coleman, Hunt, Sylvia?, Arlovski = 3-4 if you count Sylvia.

Therefore, people having Silva and GSP over Fedor is not moronic. However, calling someone out about it might be.

Plus, P4P is completely subjective, so relax.



JoshKnows46 said:


> chill out
> 
> and forrest was the former lightheavywieght champ, beat the number 1 guy in shogun, than beat the new number 1 guy in rampage, and beat the shit out of the current number 3, in evans, for 3 straight rounds....who cares if anderson will never fight the number 1 lhw, he just totally wreaked a former champ a wieght class above him, and cleaned out his division...fedor and his managment are scared of the comp in their own wieght class in the ufc, while anderson is cleaning out two division's in the ufc, so he shouldn't even be mentioned in the same name with anderson at this point.
> 
> i agree he should be number 2, but it isn't that outragious for someone to believe gsp deserves the spot more than him, its very close, again gsp has cleaned out his division, and fedor is yet to fight the top of his, its really splitting hairs here...and it defintly didn't deserve that response from you.


Agreed , though not with the Fedor being scared part.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

Davisty69 said:


> Agreed , though not with the Fedor being scared part.


maybe not scared, but well aware of the problems that some of the contenders in the ufc heavy weight division bring him, and more so fedors managment than fedor..they want to ride that money train as long as they can, far less chances of him losing at strikeforce....i can think of atleast 5 tuffer match-ups that could cause fedor problems, in the ufc, over fedor's tuffest test in strikeforce....while not as well established and experienced fighters as the strickforce contenders, some of the ufc contenders skill set matchs up well to beat fedor.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> Any why does it matter that Silva hasn't fought the #1 at LHW? What #1 in any other weight class has Fedor fought?


Why should I drop my weight in order to fight much smaller opponents? If this was a factor then I could say that Anderson Silva is not the best because he never beat any guy from WW division in UFC or we could apply this logic to Machida, for example, he's not the best because he hasn't fought in UFC MW division or how about BJ Penn going to WEC to face Torres to accomplish something. It's ridiculous. Maybe Fedor should fight all current UFC champions starting with BJ Penn in order to prove something? Heavyweight divisions always get much more attention than lighter ones, and there are reasons for it: everyone has one punch KO power, fighters are big therefore deliver much severe punishment to each other. I'm sure that Arlovski, Rogers and Carwin hit harder than Anderson Silva and GSP, and Fedor (natural LHW) was able to beat not only very decent LHW fighters but also big and powerful guys in their prime starting with world-class ADCC champion Ricardo Arona, world class wrestlers, Coleman and Randleman, world class strikers, Cro Cop and Arlovski and no need to mention Nogueira. When Anderson was at Fedor's age, he was tapping to C-level Japanese fighters. Now GSP is also awesome fighter, but those losses to Serra and Hughes were embarrassing, especially when he admitted that he couldn't concentrate before the fights, then started to look for the excuses ala, "Matt Hughes was my idol at the time, so I couldn't prepare properly". Childish if you ask me, but nevertheless he's very young and deserves a lot of respect. And another reason is that WW fighters do not have the power heavyweights do and Georges has never fought much bigger guys. Bottom line is that Fedor is the best fighter in MMA history, he never shies away from a fight, always shows up in shape, concentrated and his opponents inevitably lose.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

The_Senator said:


> Why should I drop my weight in order to fight much smaller opponents? If this was a factor then I could say that Anderson Silva is not the best because he never beat any guy from WW division in UFC or we could apply this logic to Machida, for example, he's not the best because he hasn't fought in UFC MW division or how about BJ Penn going to WEC to face Torres to accomplish something. It's ridiculous. Maybe Fedor should fight all current UFC champions starting with BJ Penn in order to prove something? Heavyweight divisions always get much more attention than lighter ones, and there are reasons for it: everyone has one punch KO power, fighters are big therefore deliver much severe punishment to each other. I'm sure that Arlovski, Rogers and Carwin hit harder than Anderson Silva and GSP, and Fedor (natural LHW) was able to beat not only very decent LHW fighters but also big and powerful guys in their prime starting with world-class ADCC champion Ricardo Arona, world class wrestlers, Coleman and Randleman, world class strikers, Cro Cop and Arlovski and no need to mention Nogueira. When Anderson was at Fedor's age, he was tapping to C-level Japanese fighters. Now GSP is also awesome fighter, but those losses to Serra and Hughes were embarrassing, especially when he admitted that he couldn't concentrate before the fights, then started to look for the excuses ala, "Matt Hughes was my idol at the time, so I couldn't prepare properly". Childish if you ask me, but nevertheless he's very young and deserves a lot of respect. And another reason is that WW fighters do not have the power heavyweights do and Georges has never fought much bigger guys. Bottom line is that Fedor is the best fighter in MMA history, he never shies away from a fight, always shows up in shape, concentrated and his opponents inevitably lose.


I assume you quoted me to agree with me:confused02:


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> I assume you quoted me to agree with me


just an opinion on the subject


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Davisty69 said:


> Well, since you want to unnecessarily attack people, what is your list so we can ask you if you are a moron.
> 
> Any why does it matter that Silva hasn't fought the #1 at LHW? What #1 in any other weight class has Fedor fought? None, so that point of yours is completely worthless.
> 
> ...



This post is pretty silly for someone of your caliber. To compare your "past 3-4 years" thing - let's consider this: in the last 3-4 years, how many top fighters has GSP finished in the first round?

Now look at how many Fedor has. GSP has fought a lot of "top contenders" (bj penn ast 170 is a top contender somehow?), Fedor has convincingly beat everyone of his opponents, especially as of late. 

Silva has beat most of his opponents convincingly... but if Leites was fighting Fedor and dropped on his butt to get him to the ground... would he do what Anderson did?  Or would he GnP/submit him at his own game?

I'm pretty sure Fedor would have finished the HW equivalent of Cote too, unless we want to compare Cote to Prime Crocop or Prime Nog.

Fedor- no holes in his game, thoroughly proven, exceptional at most things

Machida- no holes in his game, undefeated, has barely lost a round (has lost no recorded rounds)

GSP- Virtually no holes in his game, slight weakness in stand up (no proven K.O. power)

Silva- Perfect stand up game, slight weakness in TDD, slight weakness on ground, 3 actual losses

As always, "pound for pound" is hard to judge.

Would GSP manhandle a 170lb Silva? Would a 205lb Fedor K.O. Machida? Would a 230lb GSP give Fedor trouble on the ground?


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> This post is pretty silly for someone of your caliber. To compare your "past 3-4 years" thing - let's consider this: in the last 3-4 years, how many top fighters has GSP finished in the first round?
> 
> Now look at how many Fedor has. GSP has fought a lot of "top contenders" (bj penn ast 170 is a top contender somehow?), Fedor has convincingly beat everyone of his opponents, especially as of late.
> 
> ...


Someone of my Caliber? Thank You?

Since when has fighters finishing their opponents been a deciding factor as to their P4P status? 

That would be a pretty "silly" deciding factor because it is obvious that the smaller you go in weight class, the harder it is to finish your opponent. Look at the LW class. Tons of decision because of lack of KO power, and similar athleticism. HW division, tons of finishes because there is tons of KO power and a great disparity in athleticism.

Therefore, I would argue, finishing them doesn't really take into account the level of domination. Did GSP dominate Fitch any less than Fedor dominated Sylvia or Arlovski? Not really. In fact, you could argue that GSP dominated fitch more because he did so for 25 minutes, instead of 1-3 minutes and one punch. 

I don't really think there is a difference, a win is a win. Especially considering Machida. He has several decision wins in which he clearly dominated his opponent, beginning to end, some of them hardly landing a punch on him at all.

You can hardly say that Fedor has "No holes in his game" because Arlovski outboxed him thoroughly for 3 minutes before his glass jaw shut him down. We all know that Fedor won the fight with a KO, but that doesn't diminish the fact that he was losing before that. Does it matter, of course not because he won. Let's take Silva. His weakness is supposedly his TDD. is it a weakness if he doesn't have a problem going to the ground? I don't think it is. If Maia allowed a wrestler (albeit a stupid one) to take him to the ground, is that really a weakness? As with Fedor finishing Arlovski after being in some minor trouble, Silva finished Lutter and Hendo after being taken down so it doesn't matter.

On a final note, the whole purpose of my post, which you called silly for some reason, was to point out that you can argue the top 5 P4P in any order you want if you present the facts in your way. That is why it is so subjective. It was also intended to point out the ridiculousness of calling someone a moron for having a different P4P list than another poster. I was merely pointing out a logical and cogent method of arguing a different way to see the P4P list. 

To clarify, my top 3 P4P list goes (1)Fedor (2)Silva (3) GSP. Though Fedor's status is going to quickly drop if he doesn't start worthy HW's. Ricco is not going to do it in my book.


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## HeelHooker (Jun 27, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> This post is pretty silly for someone of your caliber. To compare your "past 3-4 years" thing - let's consider this: in the last 3-4 years, how many top fighters has GSP finished in the first round?
> 
> Now look at how many Fedor has. GSP has fought a lot of "top contenders" (bj penn ast 170 is a top contender somehow?), Fedor has convincingly beat everyone of his opponents, especially as of late.
> 
> ...


My suspicion is that Machida would make Fedor look stupid, weight difference or not.

I think a lot of people are sold on the success of a fighter in his weight class and they stop there, but I will say, every cell on Machida's body is filled with a precise MMA science.

Fedor's a smart fighter...Machida's a savante...this is a fight I have no doubt Fedor would lose, despite his weight.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

HeelHooker said:


> My suspicion is that Machida would make Fedor look stupid, weight difference or not.
> 
> I think a lot of people are sold on the success of a fighter in his weight class and they stop there, but I will say, every cell on Machida's body is filled with a precise MMA science.
> 
> Fedor's a smart fighter...Machida's a savante...this is a fight I have no doubt Fedor would lose, despite his weight.


I wouldn't say with out a doubt, but i agree with you.

if they fought 5 times, i think machida would win the majority...dudes never lost a round, tito couldn't take him down, and he even took tito down at the end of the fight, i know fedor is a much better mma wrestler, but i'm just saying...arlowsi picked fedor apart, machida would murder him in the stand-up...this would be a sick, sick match-up.


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## KryptoNITE^^ (Jul 27, 2009)

JoshKnows46 said:


> I wouldn't say with out a doubt, but i agree with you.
> 
> if they fought 5 times, i think machida would win the majority...dudes never lost a round, tito couldn't take him down, and he even took tito down at the end of the fight, i know fedor is a much better mma wrestler, but i'm just saying...arlowsi picked fedor apart, machida would murder him in the stand-up...this would be a sick, sick match-up.


AA picked Fedor apart? 

Were we watching the same fight? -.-


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

KryptoNITE^^ said:


> AA picked Fedor apart?
> 
> Were we watching the same fight? -.-


I think so.

fedor was moving away nicely, not getting hit too cleanly, but arlowsi was controlling the action till the ko....arlowsi was beating him to the punch on ever exchange, machida is quicker than arlowsi is, is all i'm saying....machida's pin point straight punches, against fedor's wild but accurate bombs, would be the shit. i think fedor would have a hard time finding his mark though...fedor is a quick puncher by heavywieght standards, but machida is a quick puncher by lightwieght bj penn standerds....fedor would have many bad matchups in the ufc, in both the heavywieght and lightheavy wieght classes.

fedor is such a beast becuase he fights slow heavywieght, and he is so much quicker than them.... arlowsi is one of the first guys that could match his speed, i don't think fedor would do well against the lightheavywieghts in the ufc.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

Arlovski was picking Fedor apart. If AA had a better chin, he could easily have won that fight (based upon went on in the fight). 

Machida, or Silva for that matter, have quicker and more accurate punches than Fedor, and would easily outpoint him for a decision, if not a stoppage.


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## Breadfan (Jan 3, 2008)

Davisty69 said:


> Arlovski was picking Fedor apart. If AA had a better chin, he could easily have won that fight (based upon went on in the fight).
> 
> Machida, or Silva for that matter, have quicker and more accurate punches than Fedor, and would easily outpoint him for a decision, if not a stoppage.


Although I can't see into the future, I totally agree.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

Breadfan said:


> Although I can't see into the future, I totally agree.


Not to toot my own horn, but "great minds think alike"


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## gazik (Oct 14, 2008)

Well it kind of impossible to imagine how the fight for instance Fedor vs Machida would go. Both fighters fought the best in division and both dominated. I dont know from where you take the confidence that Machida would "pick him appart". Fedor has faced the best what his weight class offerd in last decade and never had more than very minor problems. This turns more like in favours.

If the fight was going to happen or was at least possible to happen, than ok. But we are talking fights that will more likely never happen and one is trying to prove his thoughts to be right. In the end no one is unless the fight happens (wich i pray for)


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## HeelHooker (Jun 27, 2009)

gazik said:


> Well it kind of impossible to imagine how the fight for instance Fedor vs Machida would go. Both fighters fought the best in division and both dominated. I dont know from where you take the confidence that Machida would "pick him appart". *Fedor has faced the best what his weight class offerd* in last decade and never had more than very minor problems.


Machida _would_ confuse Fedor silly. Fedor's fought nothing close to Machida mental-reflex wise. He's virtually been faster than all the torpid and sluggish HWs he has ever fought -- and to me, at equal technical ability, speed is a much more potent advantage than size and power in MMA.

There's great visual theater for a less discerning eye when Fedor fights genetic mutants like Hong-Man Choi or Zuluzinho but these fights were utter rubbish past the gimmicky theatrics. Now, successes against techinally efficient fighters deserve their applause but with all due respect to guys like Arvloski, Hunt, Sylvia, Cro cop(a magnificent kicker, not a well rounded striker as he's falsely touted to be) and Noguiera -- non of these guys hold a candle to what Machida does. I'd dare say these guys would have a tough time standing and banging with a HW Forrest Griffin, let alone a Quinton Jackson, or lord forbid for their reputation, Lyoto Machida.

There's a reason fighters move up in weight the older they get, speed is a scarier opponent than power as Machida and Silva have demonstrated lately. As a small HW, Fedor generally has the speed advantage in all his fights and can get away with wild and reckless swings when standing in front of Tim Sylvia because he knows, in terms of the combo of reflex speed and striking technique, nothing of Machida/Silva's calibre exists in his division. If he'd pulled off the wild and careless swings he threw at Sylvia against Machida, I don't think anyone can rationally dispute what Machida would have done to him.

The bigger and slower the guys have been for Fedor, alike A.Silva @ LHW or Couture @ HW, the easier it's been. I'm not so sure he'd look so impressive against a fast, compact and technically brilliant Dragon. Watch fights in which Fedor fights your Renato Sobrals, Aronas and, though he wins (questionably against Arona), he does not dispose of these fighters as easily as he disposes the bigger, slower HW's...particularly the circus sideshow freaks. Fedor's smaller size, as counterintuitive as it sounds, is an advantage at HW, an advantage that's yet to stand a test as fast and nimble and technically complex as Machida...not by a long shot. I don't think Machida was just shooting the breeze when he spoke of Fedor being knocked out by Anderson Silva if they ever fought, I think he was commenting on the shoddy quality of Fedor's stand up technique and the speed disadvantage he'd suffer against Silva...although of course, Fedor is a much stronger and technical grappler than he's a striker.


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## gazik (Oct 14, 2008)

First of all: I do not consider Choi or Zulu fights worth to mention. It is nothing but freak show. 

You don't need to try to support your statements by saying that i should watch this or that fight. I have seen all of the fights of the guys we talk about.

With regards to what Machida said...Silva is his trainig partner and good friend so he is kind of biased. From what i know non of them have been sparring with Fedor (what would support this claim).

By the way am i the only one who consider Fedor as fast as Machida? Not to mention his explosiveness.

bottom line - I am big fan of Machida and Fedor too. I would be sorry for any of them losing their fight, but thats how it goes.


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## Guy (Feb 17, 2008)

HeelHooker said:


> Machida _would_ confuse Fedor silly. Fedor's fought nothing close to Machida mental-reflex wise. He's virtually been faster than all the torpid and sluggish HWs he has ever fought -- and to me, at equal technical ability, speed is a much more potent advantage than size and power in MMA.


Machida has fought no one like Fedor either. Rashad and Sokky are probably the best strikers Machida has faced in the UFC and they're not necessarily known for always dominating everybody.



> There's great visual theater for a less discerning eye when Fedor fights genetic mutants like Hong-Man Choi or Zuluzinho but these fights were utter rubbish past the gimmicky theatrics.


This is true, but I don't see anybody beating Hong Man Choi besides Fedor and Crocop and maybe Lesnar. All the other HWs/LHWs would be screwed against him.



> Now, successes against techinally efficient fighters deserve their applause but with all due respect to guys like Arvloski, Hunt, Sylvia, Cro cop(a magnificent kicker, not a well rounded striker as he's falsely touted to be) and Noguiera -- non of these guys hold a candle to what Machida does. I'd dare say these guys would have a tough time standing and banging with a HW Forrest Griffin, let alone a Quinton Jackson, or lord forbid for their reputation, Lyoto Machida.


Wow you really honoestly think Arlovski, Crocop, and Mark Hunt would have a tough time standing with a brawler like Griffin and a one dimensional boxer like Rampage? Wow :confused03:



> There's a reason fighters move up in weight the older they get, speed is a scarier opponent than power as Machida and Silva have demonstrated lately. As a small HW, Fedor generally has the speed advantage in all his fights and can get away with wild and reckless swings when standing in front of Tim Sylvia because he knows, in terms of the combo of reflex speed and striking technique, nothing of Machida/Silva's calibre exists in his division. If he'd pulled off the wild and careless swings he threw at Sylvia against Machida, I don't think anyone can rationally dispute what Machida would have done to him.


The thing about Fedor is though is that he throws every loopy punch with thought in it. You're really downplaying his standup to make it seem like he's some drunken thug on the street. Watch the Sylvia fight, every "crazy, reckless" punch he throws finds its mark. He also beat Crocop standing when Crocop was on top of the world and still had youth and speed on his side.



> The bigger and slower the guys have been for Fedor, alike A.Silva @ LHW or Couture @ HW, the easier it's been. I'm not so sure he'd look so impressive against a fast, compact and technically brilliant Dragon. Watch fights in which Fedor fights your Renato Sobrals, Aronas and, though he wins (questionably against Arona), he does not dispose of these fighters as easily as he disposes the bigger, slower HW's...particularly the circus sideshow freaks.


You're talking about fights that happened NINE years ago. Babalu and Arona happened to both be HWs at the time as well. Let's bring up Machida barely winning the fight against a chubby BJ Penn and losing a round to Sam Greco too.



> Fedor's smaller size, as counterintuitive as it sounds, is an advantage at HW, an advantage that's yet to stand a test as fast and nimble and technically complex as Machida...not by a long shot. I don't think Machida was just shooting the breeze when he spoke of Fedor being knocked out by Anderson Silva if they ever fought, I think he was commenting on the shoddy quality of Fedor's stand up technique and the speed disadvantage he'd suffer against Silva...although of course, Fedor is a much stronger and technical grappler than he's a striker.


The funny thing about all this is you're talking about Fedor's striking this whole time. I'm pretty sure that you even know that once it hit the ground it'd be over for both Machida and Silva.


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## gazik (Oct 14, 2008)

Hmm, it is sad that none of these fights is ever going to happen. MAYBE Anderson vs Fedor if Anderson starts feeling, that he is not considered best of best ever due to Fedor. Which is not likely at the moment, because he cares about winning fights in very safe way and tends to prove himself in other ways of fighting (boxing Jones or who is the "washed up" guy). And for more I hope, if some of these fights happens, it is going to be soon while both of them are comparable and in their prime. Not like Couture nowdays (even though he is still very good considering his blessed age for fighter).


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## Nicklovin (Aug 17, 2009)

*Pound for Pound Best?*

In UFC 101 countdown Forrest Griffin stated how Anderson Silva makes fighters look bad, like the fights with Henderson and Franklin, but then Silva made Forrest look bad. Dont get me wrong, Forrest is one of my favorite fighters but he really got embarressed. Id like to see Silva vs Griffin rematch sometime.


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## LjStronge (Aug 29, 2007)

So, what's your point??

Are you asking if we thing A.Silva is the P4P best in the world?

You just posted a statement?

Help me out my man, I'll try and contribute to your thread, but I need to know what your asking dude?


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## GarethUFC (Sep 12, 2007)

Can there be 2 best p4p lol... anderson and fedor?

i cant pick...


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