# Is the UFC and MMA dying?



## XxDEATHSHEADxX (Jan 3, 2011)

Ok, so don't take this the wrong way or as an attack on something I know some of you are really passionate about.
I've been there. I'm not a UFC fan that got sucked in with the first season of the Ultimate Fighter. I started as a Pride guy before Pride was cool.

I really used to care about it, and it was my second favorite sport to watch behind the NFL.

So the UFC explodes from 2005 on, Pride collapses, the UFC gets all their fighters and the company is stacked with talent. Pretty exciting stuff. Brock Lesnar came in, blah blah blah, it was big.

I recall a lot of people in the MMA community, and Zuffa specifically, around 2007, 2008, saying that MMA was going to become the biggest sport in the world. Its popularity was sky rocketing and while it was somewhat brash a statement, it looked like it could get really, really big.

Then... everyone anyone cared about got old. The sport has been on a pretty noticeable decline in popularity ever since. For me, honestly (and Jones fans will love this, but that's fine), MMA died when Shogun returned from his injury and got dominated by Jones. Hughes was done. Liddell was done. Wanderlei was losing and getting old, etc.

I just lost interest. I don't practice MMA but I always really liked it. Now... I kinda' like it. I'll check UFC.com once a month or so and see if anything is happening I want to remember to watch, but for the most part I could care less.

Just wondering if you think MMA has peaked in its popularity. I mean after you've seen a thousand MMA fights, and established stars begin to retire, I don't know, I just don't enjoy it like I used to, and the numbers say I'm not alone.

Maybe MMA is in store for similar highs and lows like the Professional Wrestling industry? Where one decade it's really entertaining, and then the next nobody cares?
I mean it's definitely obvious, now that the honeymoon is over, that MMA will never be bigger the the NFL and Baseball and Basketball and Hockey, and it won't even come close.

Do you think the numbers and interest will continue to decline over the next five to ten years until it goes back into a fringe sport or do you think it's going to level off?


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

Yea it has peaked. The UFC has made a run of bad decisions that have really hurt the product IMO.

It'll stick around, but I don't see it getting much bigger.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

It really depends in which markets you are referring too. The UFC, and MMA as a whole, have several markets they are trying to open up. Markets such as India, Mexico, the rest of SA besides Brazil, and get the Asian markets back into the scene.

As for the US, there is a lull, but every sport in the US goes through peaks and valleys. I still think the UFC is seeing less is because they are giving us too much. Too many fights, too many PPV's, too much access, etc.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Umm Nike? Fox? No? Guess it's just me.

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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Dying only in some people's head. Still rapidly growing and has a lot of room to go.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

if you were to ask every adult in Australia if they knew what 'MMA' was, you'd probably come back with far less than 50% positive responses. It's not always going to be like that. MMA still has a lot of growing to do.

I feel like your interest in MMA is dying because your favourite fighters are losing relevancy and you aren't watching enough to get a real grasp on who your future favourite fighters will be. It's the same in any sport, the old become older and the young take over.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I'm not as into it now as I once was but I think it has to do with it being over saturated with too many divisions and fights.

I don't have the emotional attachment to the sport I once had, I still enjoy it and the fights but I don't watch every event anymore and I certainly don't follow every promotion/watch all the hype shows etc.

As for on a whole... I have no idea what the numbers are, but the Fox deal was big and big sponsors coming into the sport now. From what I hear TUF is having bad ratings (correct me if I'm wrong, I just heard it said), but if that is the case it's probably cause it's been going for too long for it to be interesting anymore, rather than MMA as a whole.

Overall it is growing, but I would say the rate at which it is expanding feels like it is slowing and not growing as fast as it once was, "feels" like, I don't have numbers or anything.


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

The UFC and MMA has entered the sport entertainment industry. They are no longer competing to get subscribers and fans, they are now competing with real sports like soccer, football, basketball, baseball, hockey etc. That's the level the sport of MMA is in at the moment, they are still gaining momentum and getting established but they are now on Fox which is huge and put on a lot more free cards and fights than before. MMA fighters have successfully transitioned into the movie scene and there are far more mainstream MMA related movies than before. Almost any movie with fighting scenes now features and references MMA style fighting, that's how popular it is. 

I'll admit, it does feel like the UFC has hit a bit of a slump, but I imagine they are still growing and reaching different parts of the world. It's still new but the sport itself is pretty established thanks to Dana and the UFC working harder than everyone else and buying out any competition.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

It has certainly peaked in North America for now, but globally not even close. They still have Asia and their 3 billion population to work on.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

The UFC has been declining since around 120 imo. The product seems to be stagnant, too many cards like the one in Calgary. It comes down to the product and as a consumer with money to spend the UFC just lacks the draw these days, I've watched so many fights that I sat there for 5 rounds and regret even going out.

The desire to spend money on the UFC for me is all but gone, for some reason those awsome fights of 5 or even 10 years ago like Liddell/Couture are gone. There are no compelling rivalries to watch. Aldo, Bendo, GSP, Silva, Jones and recently Cain all dominate their challengers; there's no tension, I couldn't care less about Jones sending Gustafsson out of the cage in 2 rounds in a heap. There's really only one fight worth watching (we all know what it is) these days, I don't know how it happened but somewhere along the line it became stagnant.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

you can't grow a sport explosively forever. there will be peaks and troughs.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

OP's argument is really built on the past era and it's stars. Meanwhile the UFC is on FOX, sponsors like Nike are already in the game etc. MMA ia getting more coverage in media. It's doing just fine and definitely not dying. 

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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

Its just growing pains IMO. Maybe its some kind of era factor. Perhaps some fans were so attached to the Chuck Liddell/Randy Couture/Tito Ortiz/PRIDE era, that once it was over, they essentially lost interest in MMA all together. This us just a guestiment, but I would say most fans aren't reliant on the few elite UFC superstars to keep the sport popular in the long run (if that makes any sense), because the UFC superstars of today wont be around forever.The GSP/Anderson era will be coming to an end, the Jon Jones era will eventually end, and a new dominant superstars will take over.

To put it in NFL terms, the NFL didnt lose popularity just because guys like Joe Montana/Dan Marino/Deion Sanders retired, because there were new superstars that came after them. In any sport, there will always be new superstars to.keep the sport interesting.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

It's obviously peaked but that does not equate to dying just because butthurt PRIDE fans don't watch anymore.


And it really has nothing to do with imaginary poor decisions speculated by armchair businessmen and the fact that a niche sport is never going to gain massive, worldwide popularity.


The more violent a sport is, the less appeal it has globally. Even the almighty American Football juggernaut has a crap international market and is being out expanded by basketball despite having the domestic advantage in white american viewers.


This is a sport that's not even legal in all 52 sports, the idea that it would just overnight supplant itself amongst the BIG 3 in sports folklore was a laughable pipe dream propagated by rabid fanboys and the delusional Dana White.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

http://mmapayout.com/blue-book/pay-per-view/

the slump seems to have started around 126, haven't broken a million buys in 3 years apparently, if that site is correct


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

I think MMA/ UFC is still growing on a global level, however it has peaked in North America. I think from 2006-2009 about 83% of all UFC events where held in the USA. 

In 2012 they had roughly 32 events, roughly 43% are held outside the USA. To me personally it has lost it's appeal way to many pay per views that aren't worth the price charged. It has lost it's uniqueness as it's trying to compete with major sports league in North America. 

MMA/UFC will continue to grow, but it will never be consider a top sports league in NA. I don't ever seeing it surpassing. the pga,nfl,nhl,nba, etc. 

I would love to see how a free card on Canadian television will do viewers wise as curling had 13.7 million Canadians watching that recently.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

rabakill said:


> http://mmapayout.com/blue-book/pay-per-view/
> 
> the slump seems to have started around 126, haven't broken a million buys in 3 years apparently, if that site is correct


You shouldn't look at single events, but at the monthly/annual gain they make. People only have a limited amount of money they can spend. If they could i.e. only afford one event per month and at the time there was only one event per month, they'd spend it on that event. Now there are maybe three events a month, but the guy still has only money for one event he'd have to chose which one to spend it on. So on average he'd spend less money per event, but the same money per month. Now there is the question whether there are now more people overall to watch events than at the former time. If the monthly/annual net gain today is higher than it was at the former time, then that means the sport is still growing even though the gain per event may be lower. Quantity makes up for quality gain per event.



marcthegame said:


> I would love to see how a free card on Canadian television will do viewers wise as curling had 13.7 million Canadians watching that recently.


There is people who actually watch curling :confused02:


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

It is still growing at a fair pace around the world and slowly gathering fans in north america. What happened before was a boom period where the continent was discovering the sport not a normal growth rate from an existing product. 

They could go through another popularity spike in the USA if certain things come to fruition but I would expect slow growth and a stable business outside of that.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

I've read or seen nothing that implies the UFC is declining in any way. Quite the opposite.

Selling less PPV means nothing, especially considering Dana himself was pretty clear about moving away from the PPV model. Considering the increase in shows and advertising revenue, I would say Dana is well on his way to becoming not-so dependent on PPV.

More fighters. More wages. Better sponsors. More shows. etc. This is not the behaviour of a declining sport. Not by a long shot.


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## prolyfic (Apr 22, 2007)

You know its funny, when you don't get something it makes you want it more. However, absense doesn't always make the heart grow fonder. Sometimes it makes you forget and how can that be good. Truth be told MMA, for me, is still as big as ever. I look forward to a month that has an event every week. Two free ones and me and my friend will split the PPV.

The reason why some of the older fans are losing interest is because you never really evolved with the newer fighters. I mean the Chuck/Randy fued was big because there wasn't anyone else to be excited about and on top of that it had been 3 months since you saw a fight. So with all that it was super exciting. With anysport you have people that will watch some games more than others. Then it leads up to a climax. The UFC have a harder time because they dont have one big climax, rather 2-3 huge cards a year. Which is normal in a sport. 

I think they are growing alot and where we came in with Pride and having favorites, the new generation is having their favorites and building their knowledge of the sport and its participants.


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## XxDEATHSHEADxX (Jan 3, 2011)

ptw said:


> The UFC and MMA has entered the sport entertainment industry. They are no longer competing to get subscribers and fans, they are now competing with real sports like soccer, football, basketball, baseball, hockey etc. That's the level the sport of MMA is in at the moment, they are still gaining momentum and getting established but they are now on Fox which is huge and put on a lot more free cards and fights than before. MMA fighters have successfully transitioned into the movie scene and there are far more mainstream MMA related movies than before. Almost any movie with fighting scenes now features and references MMA style fighting, that's how popular it is.
> 
> I'll admit, it does feel like the UFC has hit a bit of a slump, but I imagine they are still growing and reaching different parts of the world. It's still new but the sport itself is pretty established thanks to Dana and the UFC working harder than everyone else and buying out any competition.


I totally disagree and think it's actually sort of crazy to think MMA will ever be competing with the four staple sports of America, football especially, which is untouchable and deeply ingrained in the American experience, going hand in hand with national holidays, etc.


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## XxDEATHSHEADxX (Jan 3, 2011)

Some good points about it's global appeal. I suppose you're right about it being big in Brazil, Asia, etc.
I just think it's run it's course in the U.S. It will continue to do well, but its ascension is, IMO, over, and it also runs the risk of dwindling back into fringe status if it cannot prevent itself from going stagnant here. The ***** in MMA's armor is the dynamic of the sport is completely different from other sports, there isn't a team building process and rivalries that span decades, etc, so if MMA starts to collapse, it could collapse in epic fashion, going right back to the basement, just like Wrestling. No, it isn't professional wrestling, but let's be honest, they share similar appeals and so are prone to the same problems.

Also, the UFC benefited a lot from having charismatic and very likable champions in the decade previous. People would throw down 35~50 bucks to see the Liddell's, Couture's, etc.

I don't think people will be as eager to see Jon Jones bully everyone like a villain and throw their lump bodies to the mat like a psychopath, and the more people drop out of watching, the less people can see potential new stars, and so it's a process that perpetuates itself.

What I'm saying here is that MMA's strength when it was growing, is also it's weakness in decline. It's a cult of personality sport, centered around individuals, and lives or dies on those individuals, where as football on the other hand, has uniforms, team histories, etc, so multiple generations are, say, Steelers fans, or Giants fans, or whatever.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

prolyfic said:


> The reason why some of the older fans are losing interest is because you never really evolved with the newer fighters.


This is just so far off base it's ridiculous. The actual problem to a lot of long time fans is that the champion fights are all pretty much the same, the champ dominates someone who is nowhere near as good. Those big nights when there the whole event leads up to a championship bout that ends with the challenger getting outclassed is why the product suffers, not because people haven't evolved with the newer fighters. Randy wasn't defending his belt 8 times in a row. When a show reaches its finale and is completely anticlimactic it's obvious why a lot of people miss the old days. 

That being said, a new era may be upon us if Hendricks and Weidman can shake things up, it's just not as fun when every weight class is dominated by one guy because it takes the drive out of a lot of guys and they become complacent, take Rich Franklin or Chael Sonnen now, they have nothing they can do to work themselves to a title shot so they are irrelevant in the rankings. I personally do not enjoy watching Jones dominate, nor Silva really, I like to watch fights like Heurta vs. Guida instead of it just being a one sided beatdown like Jones vs. anybody. That's not to disparage the champs, mma needs to evolve to the point where every gym that has UFC fighters has high level trainers in striking, wrestling and groundwork so that guys like Dan Hardy can be more well rounded and actually pose a danger to the champs. Hell, one of the UFC fighters trains down the block from where I live and it's a terrible gym and his fights are evidence of that. The training methodologies evolved so fast that some guys are an entire generation ahead in terms of training and it makes a disparity that results in anticlimactic title fights.


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## XxDEATHSHEADxX (Jan 3, 2011)

rabakill said:


> This is just so far off base it's ridiculous. The actual problem to a lot of long time fans is that the champion fights are all pretty much the same, the champ dominates someone who is nowhere near as good. Those big nights when there the whole event leads up to a championship bout that ends with the challenger getting outclassed is why the product suffers, not because people haven't evolved with the newer fighters. Randy wasn't defending his belt 8 times in a row. When a show reaches its finale and is completely anticlimactic it's obvious why a lot of people miss the old days.
> 
> That being said, a new era may be upon us if Hendricks and Weidman can shake things up, it's just not as fun when every weight class is dominated by one guy because it takes the drive out of a lot of guys and they become complacent, take Rich Franklin or Chael Sonnen now, they have nothing they can do to work themselves to a title shot so they are irrelevant in the rankings. I personally do not enjoy watching Jones dominate, nor Silva really, I like to watch fights like Heurta vs. Guida instead of it just being a one sided beatdown like Jones vs. anybody. That's not to disparage the champs, mma needs to evolve to the point where every gym that has UFC fighters has high level trainers in striking, wrestling and groundwork so that guys like Dan Hardy can be more well rounded and actually pose a danger to the champs. Hell, one of the UFC fighters trains down the block from where I live and it's a terrible gym and his fights are evidence of that. The training methodologies evolved so fast that some guys are an entire generation ahead in terms of training and it makes a disparity that results in anticlimactic title fights.


All great points, and yes, I know who all the new fighters are and have watched them fight plenty. I just don't care enough about them to care enough about them


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

XxDEATHSHEADxX said:


> All great points, and yes, I know who all the new fighters are and have watched them fight plenty. I just don't care enough about them to care enough about them


what about Anderson? Surely you were watching him in Pride. especially one of the greatest cards ever, Pride 25.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

injuries is what's slowing down the growth of MMA


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## prolyfic (Apr 22, 2007)

rabakill said:


> This is just so far off base it's ridiculous.


I may have used the wrong words here when I said older fans haven't evolved. I mean that more towards the OP who mentioned alot of the old time rivalries. Its not that they are not evolving its more that they are not willing to accept new rivalries. I know back then it was more of a chance the other person could win but because of the dominace people seem less interested. Its crazy cause in sports people love dynasties because it gave you someone to root for or against. I think that because some of these rematches have been happening back to back or within 1 fight it is a little overkill to some.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

rabakill said:


> The actual problem to a lot of long time fans is that the champion fights are all pretty much the same, the champ dominates someone who is nowhere near as good.


Cain vs Bigfoot 2 = you are correct
Jones vs Sonnen = partially correct. The fight was still enjoyable.
Henderson vs Melendez = Good fight
St Pierre vs Diaz = not so good
Rousey vs Carmouche = good fight
Aldo vs Edgar = good fight
Johnson vs Dodson = good fight
JDS vs Cain 2 = one sided but enjoyable
Henderson vs Diaz = one sided
GSP vs Condit = good fight
Jones vs Belfort = had its moments.

I could go on but I got bored. But generally I dont think the title fights are particularly one sided or boring. I think we've had a pretty even mix of good and bad fights. No different to any other sport. I have to watch 5 games of football to catch one amazing game. The other 4 are meh.

You keep saying the reason for MMA's decline is X and Y... except you've not really presented any evidence of said decline. Whereas theres plenty evidence of growth.


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## GDPofDRB (Apr 18, 2013)

MMA is not dying, but Zuffa are not ideal managers for MMA and UFC could blow it in the long run. I hope someone better is able to pick up the pieces when that happens. MMA is going nowhere, the egomaniacs running UFC though...


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

GDPofDRB said:


> MMA is not dying, but Zuffa are not ideal managers for MMA and UFC could blow it in the long run. I hope someone better is able to pick up the pieces when that happens. MMA is going nowhere, the egomaniacs running UFC though...


Interesting claim. Could you elaborate please? 

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## GDPofDRB (Apr 18, 2013)

Rauno said:


> Interesting claim. Could you elaborate please?
> 
> Sent from my GT-S5660 using VerticalSports.Com App


I'll predict the people running UFC are going to trip over their own greed one day and it will bite them in the ass on many fronts and they will either struggle to recover or get out while they can. No UFC won't mean no MMA though, MMA>UFC the pieces get picked up somewhere else, hopefully by less shady management.


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## dvonfunk (Oct 31, 2007)

I can't definitively say whether the UFC/MMA's popularity is declining on any scale. In fact, I'd be more likely to disagree with the notion, given the major network/sponsorship deals that continue to signed. I do know, however, that I have several friends that used to follow the UFC and regularly watched the monthly PPVs along with me, that have basically abandoned the sport. They can no longer identify the majority of the fighters, nor do they care to do so. I don't know entirely why that is, and I've never flat out asked them. I guess I will and get back to you haha...

Based on my personal experience, on the surface it seems like a case of only the diehards remaining. Whether or not that's true on a broader scale, is open for debate. For example, one might argue that the UFC is so focused on expanding into new geographic markets because the North American- and particularly U.S.- market has already been completely tapped. This is precisely the reason the NFL- which has never been more popular- is trying so hard to shove their product down the people of England's throats. They know that in order to continue growing their brand, they have to tap into new geographic markets.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Soojooko said:


> You keep saying the reason for MMA's decline is X and Y... except you've not really presented any evidence of said decline. Whereas theres plenty evidence of growth.


fair enough, I don't disagree at all with that. I'll rephrase,

In my opinion the quality of the on-air product is declining as a result of anti-climactic title fights being more prevalent.


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## usernamewoman (Sep 24, 2007)

honestly ufc has surpassed the nfl in global terms and i stopped watching the nfl years ago. quite frankly there isnt anything about it to get me to watch it again. i dont know about the other sports such as hockey and basketball. i think it is just as big as most of the other major team sports especially considering the fact that mma is not a team sport


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

usernamewoman said:


> honestly ufc has surpassed the nfl in global terms and i stopped watching the nfl years ago. quite frankly there isnt anything about it to get me to watch it again. i dont know about the other sports such as hockey and basketball. i think it is just as big as most of the other major team sports especially considering the fact that mma is not a team sport


Well the NFL is only big in the US and in Canada. Surpassing the NFL on a global scale really doesn't take much. Hockey is very popular in many European countries and in Russia and all it's satellite countries. I'd say hockey is a lot more popular on a global scale in terms of number of fans. 

Soccer is the worlds most popular sport by an enormous margin.


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## XxDEATHSHEADxX (Jan 3, 2011)

Yeah, and football fans like myself aren't interested in a global NFL anyway, but in the U.S. of A., the NFL is King.
I mean soccer is a huge sport and nobody here cares

I guess I'm looking at this from the perspective of an American and don't really care how something is fairing in Brazil.


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## mo25 (Feb 7, 2011)

It's not dying but the fight cards are being watered down. 2 years ago I would be excited for almost every single fight on the card, even the prelims. Every card was stacked. In the past 18th months or so this hasn't been the case. There has maybe 1-2 fights on an entire card that I care about.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

XxDEATHSHEADxX said:


> Yeah, and football fans like myself aren't interested in a global NFL anyway, but in the U.S. of A., the NFL is King.
> I mean soccer is a huge sport and nobody here cares
> 
> I guess I'm looking at this from the perspective of an American and don't really care how something is fairing in Brazil.


How very... American of you 

I'll agree with others in that I think the sport has peaked in North America. But there is still plenty of room for global growth - Australia, India, etc. I don't know if these markets will ever take to MMA like North America and Brazil have, but the potential is there. I even think there's still room for considerable growth in the UK.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

XxDEATHSHEADxX said:


> Yeah, and football fans like myself aren't interested in a global NFL anyway, but in the U.S. of A., the NFL is King.
> I mean soccer is a huge sport and nobody here cares
> 
> I guess I'm looking at this from the perspective of an American and don't really care how something is fairing in Brazil.


I we had no remarkable relevance in soccer like you we wouldn't care nothing about soccer either, and personally I don't care that much about soccer anyway. Just saying.


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## JASONJRF (Nov 3, 2009)

Its bigger then ever. The problem that you may be reffering to is the UFC is focusing very heavily on expanding out to other markets of the world therefore they are not putting as much work into advertising within the U.S. This may be why you feel as if there is a decline. But how many kids are running around saying they know karate now adays? Its all MMA I see adds for MMA fights at bars and even drive through windows like Taco Bell. Clothings all kinds of things are inspired by MMA. It is still growing and will continue to. And worldwide it probably will be the biggest sport one day maybie only behind Soccer.


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## 2zwudz (Apr 9, 2007)

After watching the two little kids (ages 9 and 10 I think) fighting in a exibition match at a adult cage event I lost alot of respect for it. In no way should that of happened.
Mark


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

2zwudz said:


> After watching the two little kids (ages 9 and 10 I think) fighting in a exibition match at a adult cage event I lost alot of respect for it. In no way should that of happened.
> Mark


no worse than hockey, I was 12 and got my head smashed into the boards and got knocked out. Same kind of injuries happen in football, snowboarding, skateboarding. Difference is there is more humanity to it, when I got knocked out in hockey the parents on the opposing team jumped out of their seats and screamed "yeah, rip his feckin head off", in a hockey game with 12 year olds. More serious injuries in football than mma, and a lot of the time putting rambunctious overactive kids into mma causes them to become a lot more calm outside of training because they have a place to get out their violent energy, one therapist described it as the child missing something in his life that was causing him problems that mma fixed. Some people just have violence inside of them and mma is a perfect outlet.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

I wish the UFC and bellator would die since 60 % of those cards about have been ufc 149 in entertainment quality the past 3 years.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

I shudder when I think of what UFC 149 became. sure it had injuries. But man that was a weak card.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

i remember ufc 109 had loads of injuries more than any other card I have ever seen and yet they still put on a great card.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

It has nothing to do with shogun getting beat up or Chuck getting old. Athletes get old, always, in any sport. Sports don't die.

It does have to do with Dana running the company like a fiefdom and making one stupid unpopular decision after the next. Hardly anybody cares about flyweight or women's MMA, and not many more for BW, yet these fights are being piggybacked as main events on regular cards without giving the consumer any choice as to not buying it.

It's all or nothing instead of being able to pick and choose. Imagine being told that if you wanted to buy season tickets for the NBA you'd also HAVE to buy season tickets for the WNBA. Otherwise no NBA for you! It's ridiculous, other sports don't piggyback unwanted content like this. It doesn't help when the boss is seen taking the woman who the division was essentially created for on dates and wearing nude pic t-shirts of her .. makes you wonder about the reasoning of it all.

Add to that other nepotic decisions such as undeserved title shots and WWEfication of fight promotion, and yes many old school fans are turned off by it. It doesn't help that the ppvs keep getting more expensive and diluted with boring unwanted fights, the fighters still get paid jack no matter how much the greedy ufc makes, and the economy keeps getting worse with customers having less money to spend.

So basically I think MMA is doing just fine and will continue to grow, but the UFC is going downhill and rightly so.


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## XxDEATHSHEADxX (Jan 3, 2011)

rabakill said:


> no worse than hockey, I was 12 and got my head smashed into the boards and got knocked out. Same kind of injuries happen in football, snowboarding, skateboarding. Difference is there is more humanity to it, when I got knocked out in hockey the parents on the opposing team jumped out of their seats and screamed "yeah, rip his feckin head off", in a hockey game with 12 year olds. More serious injuries in football than mma, and a lot of the time putting rambunctious overactive kids into mma causes them to become a lot more calm outside of training because they have a place to get out their violent energy, one therapist described it as the child missing something in his life that was causing him problems that mma fixed. Some people just have violence inside of them and mma is a perfect outlet.


It's completely different and if you don't understand why you are drastically lacking in culture.
We used to argue that MMA was not human cock fighting right?

Don't defend children fighting in a cage. It's a pretty epic fail unless you're from Burma.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

UFC wise, kinda. It's becoming more main stream due to the FOX deal but I feel like there aren't as many good fights anymore. I think it has a lot to do with fighters worrying about getting cut after a loss. Also Joe Silva's matchmaking has been shit as of late, even when there aren't injuries. Shields vs Woodley, really? Main events have been a joke all year and PPV numbers show that. It could be because there's so many cards, but I think it's mostly because they just aren't interesting match ups. 

I can definitely say that I don't like the UFC as much as I did back in 2010. I'd rather watch Bellator nowadays tbh.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

AlphaDawg said:


> Also Joe Silva's matchmaking has been shit as of late, even when there aren't injuries. *Shields vs Woodley, really?*


You may be right about some Joe matchmaking, but this particular fight was sh!t because of what these two did in the octagon. When it was booked, I was crazy to see that clash (as I was to see Davis vs Vinny ), top wrestler vs top BJJ, I wanted to see the scramble where both fight the best, on the ground. Unfortunately, as we've been witnessing these days, fighters are fighting safe, what is at the same time understandable and deeply frustrating.


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## Aiken (May 3, 2010)

Is the UFC and MMA dying?

For you (the OP) I believe the answer is yes, but as a business, no of course it isn't.

I get frustrated at some of the cards, but then I excersize my right as a consumer and choose not to buy them... As far as the free TV cards are concerned - I have no complaints about something I'm being given for free (gift horse and mouth come to mind). As time passes, the UFC will mold themselves, their brand and their product into something that will be around for a long time. Classic example is women's MMA - who cares if the only reason its in the UFC is because Rousey is hot? There’s only one thing better than watching a (capable) hot chick fight and that's two (capable) hot chicks fighting each other! 

It's worth remembering that there will always be people who lose interest - the UFC doesn't care, it's like a hydra - for every person who decides they no longer like MMA there are two more lining up to take their place...


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

What a ridiculous thread. The UFC has a FOX deal. Smaller organizations like Bellator are picking up guys like Rampage and Kongo, who are past their best years but will no doubt bring more attention to the promotion.

Women's MMA is slowly being accepted, no sport should be single-gender. Weight classes have been expanded to cater for more people, meaning more talent and more fights. These things needed to happen for the sport to grow, the fact they are happening means it is growing, and at a great pace.

MMA dying? No chance. There are certain things which MMA's biggest promoter, the UFC, can change and work on. MMA as a whole is very much alive.

Go to your nearest grappling or kickboxing club, it'll have ten times the members it had 10 years ago, and that is greatly because of MMA and it's growing popularity. Most of these guys have not heard of Glory, One FC or ADCC, but they've all heard of the UFC. It's not Spong or Saki inspiring them to kickbox, it's Anderson Silva.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

MMA has not peaked and the post Dana White era will be when MMA finally hits his peak. Dana White deserves credit(not as much as he gets) for getting MMA to where it is but he also deserves blame for the current stalling out. When he is gone the sport can finally grow and we will see it on ESPN. It will continue to grow Worldwide.

I have a dream...that one day the casual fan will watch MMA and not UFC.


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## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

If there's been a declining trend it would have more to do with over saturation then anything else. There's fights almost every weekend not one every couple of months like before, therefore the competition for the money someone like me will spend is pretty fierce. I limit myself to 2-3 fights a year, so I'm really picky. The money being spent on the UFC and mma in general has probably never been higher.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

It's _expanding_ like crazy but the _intensity_ is falling. You can come up with a valid argument for either term there, but the reality is that they aren't exclusive of one another. It seems normal to me, and it'll correct itself over time; it's a natural evolutionary thing, IMO.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

SM33 said:


> What a ridiculous thread. The UFC has a FOX deal. Smaller organizations like Bellator are picking up guys like Rampage and Kongo, who are past their best years but will no doubt bring more attention to the promotion.
> 
> Women's MMA is slowly being accepted, no sport should be single-gender. Weight classes have been expanded to cater for more people, meaning more talent and more fights. These things needed to happen for the sport to grow, the fact they are happening means it is growing, and at a great pace.
> 
> ...


What do you mean no sport should be single gendered that's the stupidest thing I have ever heard, who on earth would ice hockey or american football or rugby for both genders and the WNBA is just a running joke that everyone's in on. 

Secondly this thread isn't ridiculous the UFC may not be dieing but it isn't ludacris to think that it's losing steam due to having barely any superstars, average ppv numbers, over saturation of events, too many no name fighters, too many boring fights and cards and poor match making.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

SM33 said:


> What a ridiculous thread. The UFC has a FOX deal. Smaller organizations like Bellator are picking up guys like Rampage and Kongo, who are past their best years but will no doubt bring more attention to the promotion.
> 
> Women's MMA is slowly being accepted, no sport should be single-gender. Weight classes have been expanded to cater for more people, meaning more talent and more fights. These things needed to happen for the sport to grow, the fact they are happening means it is growing, and at a great pace.
> 
> ...


Having both genders in a sport doesn't mean forcing people to purchase both genders. All sports have versions for both genders. MMA has had women's fight orgs for ages.

However, all sports also sell SEPARATE tickets or have separate broadcasts for both genders. When you go to the Olympics you get to choose whether to buy tickets for the men's wrestling or women's wrestling. Heck you even get to pick what weight class you buy tickets for or watch. When you buy NBA tickets or watch an NBA game they don't suddenly pan and plug in a WNBA game. They do not FORCE you to purchase or watch the women's sport if it is not to your interest. 

The UFC and some boxing orgs are the only exception. Anymore, they ONLY sell PPVs with mixed fights (at the same or higher price than cards that used to have all interesting fights), take this diluted bs that may or may not interest you, or leave it. I'll leave it.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Secondly this thread isn't ridiculous the UFC may not be dieing but it isn't ludacris to think that it's losing steam due to having barely any superstars, average ppv numbers, over saturation of events, too many no name fighters, too many boring fights and cards and poor match making.


More events. Better sponsers. More fighters. More national TV shows. All point to something gaining steam, not losing it.

The reason there we're seemingly more superstars is because there we're barely any decent fighters to begin with. It's all very well having popular guys like Tito, Chuck and Randy, but whats the point when the only interesting fights for themselves is against each other. For example, during Chucks LHW run, he fought Randy and Tito twice each over a two year period.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

cain and jds are doing the same thing now but they are hardly the superstars that chuck and tito and randy were


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Your opinion on Women's MMA and lighter weight class does not matter, the sport is not dying and any retard can see that.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

SM33 said:


> Your opinion on Women's MMA and lighter weight class does not matter, the sport is not dying and any retard can see that.


I didn't say anything about women's mma or lighter weight classes learn to read. And once again you failed to grasp the true point of this thread


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> cain and jds are doing the same thing now but they are hardly the superstars that chuck and tito and randy were


My point is that back then if you removed the fighters considered the stars, you we're left with a bunch of nobodies. The rosters we're super shallow. Whereas now I feel there are a lot more quality fighters filling the gaps. You are right about HW though. The HW division right now reminds me of the way it was back then: Lots of star power at the very top but beyond that a massive drop in quality. But divisions like LW and LHW are better now in my opinion. As much as I enjoyed watching Penn, Tito, Chuck and Randy etc, I didnt enjoy the rest of the division. Now I think there are lots more interesting fights to be had.

I'm willing to accept that when considering the older MMA fan demographic, there is probably some decline. But for anybody whos become an MMA fan over the last 5 years or so, the old stars mean nothing.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> My point is that back then if you removed the fighters considered the stars, you we're left with a bunch of nobodies. The rosters we're super shallow. Whereas now I feel there are a lot more quality fighters filling the gaps. You are right about HW though. The HW division right now reminds me of the way it was back then: Lots of star power at the very top but beyond that a massive drop in quality. But divisions like LW and LHW are better now in my opinion. As much as I enjoyed watching Penn, Tito, Chuck and Randy etc, I didnt enjoy the rest of the division. Now I think there are lots more interesting fights to be had.
> 
> I'm willing to accept that when considering the older MMA fan demographic, there is probably some decline. But for anybody whos become an MMA fan over the last 5 years or so, the old stars mean nothing.


I just feel the UFC does a really bad job at promoting fighters well enough like boxing to make them stars whether its due to the recycled countdown shows that all look and sound the same, the same old quotes or that the trash talk isn't there I don't know but it really could be doing better with all the talent it has. Ben henderson and aldo and cruz and mighty mouse will never be big stars despite how good they are.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> I just feel the UFC does a really bad job at promoting fighters well enough like boxing to make them stars whether its due to the recycled countdown shows that all look and sound the same, the same old quotes or that the trash talk isn't there I don't know but it really could be doing better with all the talent it has. Ben henderson and aldo and cruz and mighty mouse will never be big stars despite how good they are.


I dont disagree. But I still think, if you strip away all the extra crap and focus on just the fights themselves, then I feel we are better off now then we we're then. We get so many more fights to watch now and as a result the ratio of excellent fights vs meh fights has become wider, as you would expect. This might give the impression of a decline in quality but the reality is we are getting just as many good fights... its just there are considerably more average fights inbetween. The day is coming where we will have to start picking and choosing the events we watch. Like most sports.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> I dont disagree. But I still think, if you strip away all the extra crap and focus on just the fights themselves, then I feel we are better off now then we we're then. We get so many more fights to watch now and as a result the ratio of excellent fights vs meh fights has become wider, as you would expect. This might give the impression of a decline in quality but the reality is we are getting just as many good fights... its just there are considerably more average fights inbetween. The day is coming where we will have to start picking and choosing the events we watch. Like most sports.


I guess but another thing I wanna bring up is that the UFC is god awful at making good posters and also at making trailers and promos like say pride did for their tourneys and events. there's no reason why they shouldn't be as good as pride was in that respect


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

the world doesn't end at the US border. The UFC is still rapidly growing all over the world. here in France, it's still illegal even, but MMA gyms are opening up everywhere thanks to, first and foremost, the UFC.
In Europe and Asia, MMA is still very small in most countries and this leaves a lot of room for the UFC or any other promotion to grow and help the sport grow worldwide.

it's far from dying, very far


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