# BJ Penn Tells an Interesting Story About Dana White



## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/4/20/1433195/quote-of-the-day-bj-penn-tells-an



> K-1 was offering me $187,500 per fight - five times what the UFC was offering - and I was still willing to stay with them for one-third of that amount. This was when the relationship took a turn for the worse, and my view of White changed drastically. From that point on, I knew when it came to money, we couldn't trust him to treat us right. Did I like him at the dinner table? Sure. But at the negotiating table? Not at all. The pressure to perform and safeguard other people's money had changed him, even though he was constantly bragging to anyone willing to listen about how 'big this thing was going to be.' Things between us would never be the same.
> 
> When it was finally official I was going to fight in Japan, White called me up and told me his true feelings. 'You motherfucker! You're ******* done! You'll never fight in the UFC again! You're finished. You're scorched earth, motherfucker. Scorched earth. Don't call me crying saying you want to come back because you're ******* done!' And on and on and on, like a true professional - even going so far as to tell me I would never see my face again in a UFC video, promotion, or anything else. He also planned on removing my fight with Hughes from the UFC 46 DVD so no one would even know who I was. 'It doesn't have to be this way,' I told him. 'You know it wouldn't take that much to make this work.' But he just kept yelling.
> 
> ...


I believe this story to be true. Sounds like Dana to me.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

I lol'd hard at the mother f'er part cause I knew it was coming eventually. Sounds like Dana but they seem like they are in good terms now.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

The story is always the same: the top UFC stars get paid for pennies on every dollar the UFC makes. Randy's bitched about it, Sylvia, Tito, you name it. Now it's BJ's turn. 

They all complain openly, or privately. Some leave but most return. 

Personally, I'm sympathetic to the fighters' plight.

Having said that, putting fighters into a situation where they HAVE to put on the very best performance possible not only to feed their families while in the UFC, but simply to stay in the organization at all, allows the UFC to put on the most competitive fights possible. 

These guys really are modern day gladiators and most have absolutely nothing to show for it after their fight days are over. If they are fortunate, they'll have five or six business ventures going on simultaneously marketing their brand name to keep them afloat for a period after their fight days are over.


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## Kado (Apr 18, 2010)

KInd of would not doubt this at all. Seems like something that could happen.


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## UFC on VHS (Dec 16, 2008)

Haha no wonder Dana was quoted as saying 99% of BJs book is not true.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

This is most likely true which is kind of sad, There were always money problems between fighters and the UFC. I think it may have changed now with big name fighters since they get paid around 200-250k per fight+bonus, while the lower profile fighters get jack diddly squat.

Dana White will deny it all most likely, which he already said its 99% untrue.. I think we may see a lot more things like this said in the next 5+years when superstars start retiring and not caring about Dana and the UFC.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

There´s no doubt about the low incoming for fighters in the UFC, about the nasty words im not gonna pronounce simply cause im no fortune-teller.

It´s really a shame they get such a low incoming, 
even a in small conutry like mine a soccer player from a medium / small clubb gets at least 20K € to home every month. And make no doubt about it, those clubs incoming are much smaller than UFC´s.

Fighters must join efforts to change their negotiation strength asap.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Keep in mind, if this is true, it was around UFC 50 when the UFC wasn't exactly flowing with money.


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## gwabblesore (May 2, 2007)

I will _never_ be sympathetic towards this shit from high profile professional athletes.

"K-1 was offering me $187,500 per fight - five times what the UFC was offering"

So Dana only offered $37k a fight, 3 fights a year, triple figures, cry me a fuckin river.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

gwabblesore said:


> I will _never_ be sympathetic towards this shit from high profile professional athletes.
> 
> "K-1 was offering me $187,500 per fight - five times what the UFC was offering"
> 
> So Dana only offered $37k a fight, 3 fights a year, triple figures, cry me a fuckin river.


100k is a a fair amount of money, I agree. But there are a few things behind their complaints:

-100k is nothing in comparison to the stars of any other athlete in the big leagues, Jeter, Crosby, Mayweather, Bryant, Manning and certain wrestling stars(e.g. Cena). When the UFC is selling millions of PPV's getting paid as much as a plumber or electrician is insulting.

-100k is nothing when you are putting your physical wellbeing on the line in front of sold out crowds. Getting punched in the head gives you long term brain damage and fighters feel there should be more compensation for the detrimental health effects.

-100k is nothing when Dana is padding his pockets with cash, his house has an arcade in the basement. He has ferrari's, private jets and a mansion and some fighters are struggling to eat while sleeping on friends' couches.

You have to be Couture, GSP or Lesnar to make significant bank in a sport where the president is sitting on the sidelines living like a golden boy treating his stars like assets as opposed to human beings. He uses the monopoly his company has as leverage to force people into submission. Take Heurta for example, he fought because it was the only opportunity out of poverty he had and when life presents him with a way out Dana craps all over him for not wanting to fight anymore. Dana on one hand is a genius businessman who has built an empire, and on the other he dehumanizes people and treats them like dirt. The UFC is a billion dollar company and until the top 5 draws are making more than 1 million per fight they will have reason to complain (I am aware of BJ's dated comments so just don't bother with that).


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## tlilly (Nov 13, 2009)

I'm kinda torn between this issue.

I think you have to feel for the fighters. The top guys probably train harder than most other athletes year round. Most fighters that aren't the big draws can make anything from $5000 a fight to $1500. That's really not enough to live off of. Yes there are sponsorship money, but how much do you really get from a company like condom depot? I'm sure bud light isn't calling Shannon Gugerty anytime soon. 

On the other hand I also understand where the UFC is coming from. Look at a promotion like affliction that tried to pay their fighters realistic purses. I think people have to be realistic in how much the UFC actually makes. Put in the cost of production, licensing, marketing and future expansion, and you can realize that they really can't pay their non-top guys top dollar. As much as UFC and dana are easy targets for negativity, there is no denying that their business model has taken UFC to heights that was not even imagined say 5-10 years ago. Remember, UFC has been this successful without any backing from a fortune 500 company (except maybe bud light) or any network deals. They don't have the resources of an NBA or NFL or even an NHL.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

nicely said but the superstars are already making millions per fight. Lesnar made 6 million for UFC 100 and GSP probably makes 2-4 mil per fight, You need to take into account the PPV contracts that most champs/superstars have. 

if you sell more then 380k ppvs, you get $3 for every 1 person if you have a similar structure to Randy's, which I am sure the high profile athletes like GSP and Lesnar have.

I forgot the exact number for ufc 100 but this is how it went for Lesnar...

250,000 +250,000(win bonus)
1.6mil x $3


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## Kodiac26170 (Jul 30, 2009)

gwabblesore said:


> I will _never_ be sympathetic towards this shit from high profile professional athletes.
> 
> "K-1 was offering me $187,500 per fight - five times what the UFC was offering"
> 
> So Dana only offered $37k a fight, 3 fights a year, triple figures, cry me a fuckin river.



:thumbsup::thumb02:


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

rabakill said:


> 100k is a a fair amount of money, I agree. But there are a few things behind their complaints:
> 
> -100k is nothing in comparison to the stars of any other athlete in the big leagues, Jeter, Crosby, Mayweather, Bryant, Manning and certain wrestling stars(e.g. Cena). When the UFC is selling millions of PPV's getting paid as much as a plumber or electrician is insulting.
> 
> ...


Again, let me reiterate that his is ~UFC 50, merely 20 events after their first SANCTIONED event (UFC 28). That's not a whole bunch of time to build what is essentially a new sport that's had a smear campaign run on it over the past year or two by a high profile senator. The UFC itself wasn't making much money so I don't see how someone can really expect the fighters to.


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## Rachmunas (May 15, 2009)

Dana White has 6 Ferrari's. How many do the mid level fighters have or even the majority of the top fighters?


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Okay, I'm going to spell this out one more time and see if you get it because people are obviously misconceiving what's happening.

This incident happens between UFC 47 and 48 (BJ "was scheduled" to fight in K-1, he did so between these two events.

This means, at the time, the UFC had 17 or 18 sanctioned fights in the USA (29 was in Japan, 38 was in England) spanning just over 4 years. That's hardly enough time for the UFC to become a massive marketing machine like it is now. TUF1 didn't happen until a year later and that's considered the big turning point for when the UFC stopped hemorrhaging money and started to actually make it.At this point, Dana did NOT have 6 Ferrari's. At this point, BJ was pretty much making the top of what Dana could conceivably pay fighters.

Also, keep in mind that the man who made K-1 (in 1993 K-1 was founded, they never had a problem with sanctioning), Kazuyoshi Ishii, had founded a previous highly successful combat sport in Japan called Seidokaikan, so he had the leverage from that when starting K-1 along with it being in Japan, a country much more engrossed with martial arts than the USA. With K-1 having (technically) a 13 year jump money wise on the UFC and being in a market that is much more inclined to accept it, it could afford to shell out some cash.


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

Rachmunas said:


> Dana White has 6 Ferrari's. How many do the mid level fighters have or even the majority of the top fighters?


um the head guy of a company is always going to have more then the employees, that high up the corporate ladder money drops significantly each teer you move down, so to complain what dana makes to what fighters makes is ridiculous IMO, of course he is going to make a crap ton more


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## mtt_c (Jun 15, 2008)

didn't BJ just lose the belt


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## WestCoastPoutin (Feb 27, 2007)

Rachmunas said:


> Dana White has 6 Ferrari's. How many do the mid level fighters have or even the majority of the top fighters?


How many would have this opportunity without Dana?


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

as much respect and admiration i have for Dana, i do believe he has this side to him, if something doesnt go as he wanted you can see he gets really pissed off and says a lot of things he doesnt mean.


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## rean1mator (Nov 20, 2006)

Here are some interesting numbers:
UFC 109
Total combined salary of all fighters not including bonuses:
$1,183,999 
total number of fighters:
22 
*Average Salary per fighter*
*$53,800*

NFL:
Average Yearly Salary: 
$1,100,000
*Average salary per game:*
*$68,750*

So really if you look at what a professional NFL player makes on average per game against what a UFC fighter makes on average per fight than the discrepancy isn't really as big as you would expect. 

People are comparing what a fighter makes in one fight vs what a professional sports player makes in an entire season.

I think there should definitely be some changes in the amount some of those fighters are paid tho'. the discrepancy is pretty big between the lowest and highest salary for ufc 109. i think the low was 4K and high was $250,000. There should definitely be a minimum amount that a fighter should make for any major UFC Event and it should be much more than $4K.

The thing with all professional sports is that the players are protected by the players unions that negotiates minimum salary caps.









tlilly said:


> I'm kinda torn between this issue.
> 
> I think you have to feel for the fighters. The top guys probably train harder than most other athletes year round. Most fighters that aren't the big draws can make anything from $5000 a fight to $1500. That's really not enough to live off of. Yes there are sponsorship money, but how much do you really get from a company like condom depot? I'm sure bud light isn't calling Shannon Gugerty anytime soon.
> 
> On the other hand I also understand where the UFC is coming from. Look at a promotion like affliction that tried to pay their fighters realistic purses. I think people have to be realistic in how much the UFC actually makes. Put in the cost of production, licensing, marketing and future expansion, and you can realize that they really can't pay their non-top guys top dollar. As much as UFC and dana are easy targets for negativity, there is no denying that their business model has taken UFC to heights that was not even imagined say 5-10 years ago. Remember, UFC has been this successful without any backing from a fortune 500 company (except maybe bud light) or any network deals. They don't have the resources of an NBA or NFL or even an NHL.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

WestCoastPoutin said:


> How many would have this opportunity without Dana?


That doesnt give Dana the excuse to act like a total unprofessional asshole.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

JimmyJames said:


> That doesnt give Dana the excuse to act like a total unprofessional asshole.


That does not give him the excuse but being someone who has an entire section in many marketing classes, as well as being the person that many people respect as bringing MMA to where it is today, as well as the fact that he has acted like that his entire career and it keeps getting better for him... I say he can do whatever he feels as long as it does not lose the UFC fans.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

You do realize that the average UFC fighter is only in the cage a couple of times a year right? You do also realize that they are responsible for paying for their own coaching, training, facilities fees, health insurance, medical expenses, have no pension, and no union.

NFL players have access to a pension, a union, health insurance, and have access to the very best coaching in the world without paying for it.

There's no comparison. Oh, and you realize also that NFL players play 16 games a season plus receive playoff shares and are only employed six months a year right?



rean1mator said:


> Here are some interesting numbers:
> UFC 109
> Total combined salary of all fighters not including bonuses:
> $1,183,999
> ...


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Somehow I don't see that BJ was a calm and coolheaded as he makes it seem, but yeah I'm not shocked about Dana.

This is probably why Dana was trying to stop the book from coming out.


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## punchbag (Mar 1, 2010)

rabakill said:


> 100k is a a fair amount of money, I agree. But there are a few things behind their complaints:
> 
> -100k is nothing in comparison to the stars of any other athlete in the big leagues, Jeter, Crosby, Mayweather, Bryant, Manning and certain wrestling stars(e.g. Cena). When the UFC is selling millions of PPV's getting paid as much as a plumber or electrician is insulting.
> 
> ...


Not only this, some fighters have to pay stupid amounts for fight camps.
I think Rampage said he was once getting charged 60k for a fight camp with Juanito Ibarra.
This is ridiculous if you only get 100k a year, that's without mr taxman coming to pay you a visit as well, plus medical bils although I think UFC is quite good with this.
This is why a lot of lower level guys have to teach classes etc in the first place, to be able to survive. 
Which is crazy when you compare it to guys in teams in nba, nfl or premier league football teams here in the u.k, with an average premier league player earning more than this in a month.


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## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> You do realize that the average UFC fighter is only in the cage a couple of times a year right? You do also realize that they are responsible for paying for their own coaching, training, facilities fees, health insurance, medical expenses, have no pension, and no union.
> 
> NFL players have access to a pension, a union, health insurance, and have access to the very best coaching in the world without paying for it.
> 
> There's no comparison. Oh, and you realize also that NFL players play 16 games a season plus receive playoff shares and are only employed six months a year right?


Can't agree more Michelangelo, that is why I am hoping SF can make it cause the UFC will always cheat the fighters if they can. Props for a great post.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> Again, let me reiterate that his is ~UFC 50, merely 20 events after their first SANCTIONED event (UFC 28). That's not a whole bunch of time to build what is essentially a new sport that's had a smear campaign run on it over the past year or two by a high profile senator. The UFC itself wasn't making much money so I don't see how someone can really expect the fighters to.


seems like you didn't read my entire post, as I made it clear I am aware of this. My statements are not typified by this one case, the average UFC fighter is not making more than 200k a year. Sure Lesnar, GSP and BJ may make more, but a lot of guys are struggling to make a living.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Making the comparison to a football team is foolish. The following is so many times more it is sad. How many times do you see entire bars packed with people all cheering for one fighter and who wear GSP shirts everywhere or who get tickets to every one of their fights?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

If i was BJ i would 100% go with K-1 at that time.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

rabakill said:


> seems like you didn't read my entire post, as I made it clear I am aware of this. My statements are not typified by this one case, the average UFC fighter is not making more than 200k a year. Sure Lesnar, GSP and BJ may make more, but a lot of guys are struggling to make a living.


You realize that 200k isn't "struggling to make a living" in many people's books right? I have a two year old daughter and we probably pull in 1/4 of that, if that. Also, your Average NFL player doesn't exactly make a shit load of money either? Rookies make about 300k, which isn't much more than a non-veteran UFC fighter. Fourth year players make around 500k and I'd be willing to bet that a lot of people who've been in the UFC for 4 years can make damn near that. There isn't a gigantic disparity between sports that I see. Yes, there is a disparity, but there are also many things that need to be taken into account such as the age of the UFC, the fact that they DO NOT have a network TV deal and a massive amount of advertisement, etc, like other professional sports do. The UFC has been around for, what, 17 years now? Almost half of that was spent in darkness because of non-sanctioning, being banned in states and being banned from PPV. Now look at how long other sports have been around:

NFL: 90 years, founded in 1920

NBA: 64 years, Founded in 1946

MLB: 141 years, founded in 1869

NHL: 93 years, founded in 1917

You can hardly expect something that has been around for 17 years to compete with the likes of things that have been around for almost a century and in some cases even longer.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Classic case of David vs Goliath. Most will support the underdogs, but what if you were in the "suit's" position. Suppose it's all management style. 

With that being said I wonder what Dana's blood pressure is...


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> You realize that 200k isn't "struggling to make a living" in many people's books right? I have a two year old daughter and we probably pull in 1/4 of that, if that. Also, your Average NFL player doesn't exactly make a shit load of money either? Rookies make about 300k, which isn't much more than a non-veteran UFC fighter. Fourth year players make around 500k and I'd be willing to bet that a lot of people who've been in the UFC for 4 years can make damn near that. There isn't a gigantic disparity between sports that I see. Yes, there is a disparity, but there are also many things that need to be taken into account such as the age of the UFC, the fact that they DO NOT have a network TV deal and a massive amount of advertisement, etc, like other professional sports do. The UFC has been around for, what, 17 years now? Almost half of that was spent in darkness because of non-sanctioning, being banned in states and being banned from PPV. Now look at how long other sports have been around:
> 
> NFL: 90 years, founded in 1920
> 
> ...


Your pay is relative to your expenses to get that pay. Everything is out of pocket for MMA fighters the people who make 200k a year from fighting are spending over half of that to be able to fight at the level that pays them 200k a year. I don't really have a huge issue with the UFC pay scale but you can't compare what mma fighters make to other pro sports especially unionized ones in any favorable way. Averages don't work also some guys who are featured on the main card every time out are getting 10-20k to show. 

I agree to some degree with your comparisons of longevity of leagues. However it doesn't really fly when you look at the fact that the NFL wasn't a profitable league for the most part until really the 90s and was a fringe sport basically into the 70s. The rate of pay of these other sports increased with the overall profits of the sports because they are unionized. The pay rate for MMA fighters isn't going to do the same unless they are also unionized.


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## Johnni G (Dec 2, 2009)

sounds true


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Look guys.

When a guy like Keith Jardine gets paid 10k fighting and beating Chuck Liddel... you gotta know there is something up. Didn't he mention that he spent more on that training camp then he made?? If the UFC wants to keep these pay scales then they should atleast add a benefit that goes something like this.

-"Training expenses get paid up to 20k, the rest is covered by fighter."

-"If you make less then 50k then training costs are covered"

-"50% of training cost is covered by employer"

*This does not include injuries*

Something along those lines... whichever one you think is best. I know there is a problem about how they are going to verify the "Training Expense" but im sure there are ways of going about it. Such as finding out how much their gym membership costs and also how much the "Extra" training costs...etc.

If they would do that then i would 100% back up the payscales of the UFC.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

I can see why alot of fighters would want to make more money. We all do. What I don't understand is why of all fighters to be complaining about money it's B.J. Penn. The man has never worked a day in his life!!! I understand training is laborous but he has NO need for money. Think up another reason for going to K1 baby jay because I don't buy the money excuse...


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## thrshr01 (Dec 30, 2007)

Rachmunas said:


> Dana White has 6 Ferrari's. How many do the mid level fighters have or even the majority of the top fighters?


Not defending Dana here but He has 6 Ferraris now. I doubt he had that much when this happened (and I'm sure this happened). Like tramai has been trying to explain, this happened when the UFC was still in it's infancy (of sorts) and was not a cash cow as it is now. People need to take this into it's context and not blow it out of proportion.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Of course the top UFC fighters make the most and the majority make less. The fighters who make less are generally not as good. The UFC may have a filtering process to make it into the UFC, but it's still not as scrutinized as the filtering system of talent to make it to any other pro sport. Theoretically, in baseball, football or basketball, everyone is at a level likened to GSP, Silva or Penn and on occasion you have some exceptional stand outs. The UFC isn't comprised of nothing but GSP, Silva, Penn level fighters. There's only a handful who are that elite and when you're that elite, you get the sponsors, the crowds, the massive interest, therefore, the money. 

What's with this everything has to be fair business and everyone should make the same. You earn your worth in sports and as someone else brought up, this incident with BJ was at a different time, BJ or any elite level fighter isn't being strapped for cash these days, especially when fight of the night or sub of the night bonuses are an average of $65,000.00 alone. That's a year's wages in under 20 min, cry me a fricken river with this fighter's plight. Also, we live in America where you choose your profession, just because you chose a profession does not entitle you to be rich off it, especially in sports, where the term, you earn your worth rings the most true.

The other major sports make more, primarily because they have probably 10 times the world wide fan base. It's simple logic, I don't see how people can compare the relatively new, UFC organization to established sports like the NFL, NBA and MLB and whine about the monetary difference in pay, and if you really break down how long a fight lasts, in comparison to how long a sports game lasts, min vs min and determine their pay relative to time worked, fighters might even earn more per minute. Brock earned 1.3 mil in what, 15 min of work? Relative to time worked, he's earning like $70,000.00 per min. Brock is an exception, but still, relative to time worked on game day, fighters get banked out.


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## kay_o_ken (Jan 26, 2009)

judging by the amount of f.ck words id say that story is completely true


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## sk double i (Apr 13, 2007)

VolcomX311 said:


> Of course the top UFC fighters make the most and the majority make less. The fighters who make less are generally not as good. The UFC may have a filtering process to make it into the UFC, but it's still not as scrutinized as the filtering system of talent to make it to any other pro sport. Theoretically, in baseball, football or basketball, everyone is at a level likened to GSP, Silva or Penn and on occasion you have some exceptional stand outs. The UFC isn't comprised of nothing but GSP, Silva, Penn level fighters. There's only a handful who are that elite and when you're that elite, you get the sponsors, the crowds, the massive interest, therefore, the money.
> 
> What's with this everything has to be fair business and everyone should make the same. You earn your worth in sports and as someone else brought up, this incident with BJ was at a different time, BJ or any elite level fighter isn't being strapped for cash these days, especially when fight of the night or sub of the night bonuses are an average of $65,000.00 alone. That's a year's wages in under 20 min, cry me a fricken river with this fighter's plight. Also, we live in America where you choose your profession, just because you chose a profession does not entitle you to be rich off it, especially in sports, where the term, you earn your worth rings the most true.


No one says they need to be rich, but fair. I think they have the right to be paid what they produce or what they are worth which is more than what the average fighter is being paid.

$65k sounds like a lot, but bonuses are taxed at about 50%. Also, medical is only covered if they are injured during a fight in the cage. This is why a lot of fighters hold out on injuries until after the fight so it gets covered. Do you know how much it costs out of pocket for a hospital visit?



VolcomX311 said:


> The other major sports make more, primarily because they have probably 10 times the world wide fan base. It's simple logic, I don't see how people can compare the relatively new, UFC organization to established sports like the NFL, NBA and MLB and whine about the monetary difference in pay, and if you really break down how long a fight lasts, in comparison to how long a sports game lasts, min vs min and determine their pay relative to time worked, fighters might even earn more per minute. Brock earned 1.3 mil in what, 15 min of work? Relative to time worked, he's earning like $70,000.00 per min. Brock is an exception, but still, relative to time worked on game day, fighters get banked out.


right, bc they dont train or do anything like that. They just walk in the cage and fight for 15 minutes if it even lasts that long. Easy money. We should all become fighters. I have 15 min to spare right now, get me on that next card!!


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

sk double i said:


> right, bc they dont train or do anything like that. They just walk in the cage and fight for 15 minutes if it even lasts that long. Easy money. We should all become fighters. I have 15 min to spare right now, get me on that next card!!


training is a given in any sport. You don't get paid to train until you've "made it." You don't deserve to get financed to train until you've proven your worth. That's true with any sport.



sk double i said:


> No one says they need to be rich, but fair. I think they have the right to be paid what they produce or what they are worth which is more than what the average fighter is being paid.
> 
> $65k sounds like a lot, but bonuses are taxed at about 50%. Also, medical is only covered if they are injured during a fight in the cage. This is why a lot of fighters hold out on injuries until after the fight so it gets covered. Do you know how much it costs out of pocket for a hospital visit?


As true as all those facts may be, the bottom line comes down to choice. You choose a profession. If it's too hard, leave it or tough it out. What about MMA fighters make them exempt from the facts of life?

and if they have no other means or talents to provide for themselves financially, then they should be grateful they're being paid and paid respectably well for what once was just a hobby. Making a successful livelihood out of a hobby, even if you're on the lower end of the pay scale is a gift.

and I don't have health insurance, so I do know how much out of pocket treatments costs. I also have an injury sustaining lifestyle, but i don't get paid for it. It's a hobby and I still love it.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

There is no problem with the pay structure for high end fighters, the only problem at this stage of MMA is the starting salary for up and comers. Getting paid 10-15k a fight is horrible.

The high end fighters usually have PPV money tied into their contract and they can see anywhere from 1-6 million depending on how much the PPV sells, 6 million being the top of the top...Brock Lesnar made 6 million total for UFC 100 since he sold around 1.5 million PPVs(GSP also I think)

The sport is new and its still growing, the high end guys will only get more in the next 5 years. It is insanely hard to become a MMA fighter unless you have financial support from your family, I know GSP lived with his parents till he was around 24-25 years old. In the end though, I dont feel bad for the fighters who have no money and are still pursuing this type of career, It is their choice in coming into this type of career when they know how difficult it is to become big in this industry.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

VolcomX311 said:


> training is a given in any sport. You don't get paid to train until you've "made it." You don't deserve to get financed to train until you've proven your worth. That's true with any sport.


This is a very valid point! Pertains to life in general as well.


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## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

Comparing the UFC salaries to NBA/NFL/MLB/NHL salaries is rediculous. The reason those sports pay so well is the network TV deals. The NFL probably makes as much as from it's TV contract in years as the UFC pulls in total revenue over 5 years.

Also I uniopnby itself is not the answer. In fact if a union forms before all the top talent is in one organization, there is a good chance the sport will die off. 

In order for fighters to make pay comisurate with other pro sports, two things need to happen.

1. All the top fighters have to be in one organization. You don't see Peyton Manning playing for the CFL.

2. Get a network TV deal.


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## sk double i (Apr 13, 2007)

VolcomX311 said:


> As true as all those facts may be, the bottom line comes down to choice. You choose a profession. If it's too hard, leave it or tough it out. What about MMA fighters make them exempt from the facts of life?
> 
> and if they have no other means or talents to provide for themselves financially, then they should be grateful they're being paid and paid respectably well for what once was just a hobby. Making a successful livelihood out of a hobby, even if you're on the lower end of the pay scale is a gift.


Then waht is the point of having a union? Or even minimum wage? Sht, if people want to pick up garbage, they should get paid sht to do it bc if they really wanted to, they couldve graduated from an ivy league school and had a successful career in investment banking...

They should at least be able to support themselves and put food on the table. To say, hey, it's a hobby go find a real job that pays well is not a good argument.


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## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

I see this as the classic struggle between employee and employer. If too much money is kept from the fighters then it's up to them to do something about it, as I see it. Sure, it may be that they are morally due to better money but crying about that fact alone rarely make any changes. 

In other buisness worlds employees may go to a competing company which might give them what they want but the mma world isn't very diverse. A union might be a solution. It would surely give the lower tier fighter better leverage in their negotiations.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> You realize that 200k isn't "struggling to make a living" in many people's books right? I have a two year old daughter and we probably pull in 1/4 of that, if that. Also, your Average NFL player doesn't exactly make a shit load of money either? Rookies make about 300k, which isn't much more than a non-veteran UFC fighter. Fourth year players make around 500k and I'd be willing to bet that a lot of people who've been in the UFC for 4 years can make damn near that. There isn't a gigantic disparity between sports that I see. Yes, there is a disparity, but there are also many things that need to be taken into account such as the age of the UFC, the fact that they DO NOT have a network TV deal and a massive amount of advertisement, etc, like other professional sports do. The UFC has been around for, what, 17 years now? Almost half of that was spent in darkness because of non-sanctioning, being banned in states and being banned from PPV. Now look at how long other sports have been around:
> 
> NFL: 90 years, founded in 1920
> 
> ...


UFC fighters have to pay for:

-their food
-travel
-training
-medical bills

NFL players do not, a UFC fighter making 200k may put only 50k into the bank.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

rabakill said:


> UFC fighters have to pay for:
> 
> -their food
> -travel
> ...


I thought that traveling gets paid for when they have to go there for a fight, also...food ...really? Of course they have to pay for food. You dont see NFL teams stocking their players houses with food. 

and your ratio of spending/earning is way off.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

rabakill said:


> UFC fighters have to pay for:
> 
> -their food
> -travel
> ...


Their travel to the venue is paid for by the UFC, so are their medical bills if they get sustain any injuries in the fight.


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

rabakill said:


> UFC fighters have to pay for:
> 
> -their food
> -travel
> ...


now add in
Sponsorship deals, (drinks they drink at the end of their fight all the millions of logos they put on their banners/clothes 
Portion of PPV sales 
fight bonuses 
ect

plus remember this is per fight, fighters try to fight once every three to 4 months, so multiply all your money math earnings times 4


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> Look guys.
> 
> When a guy like Keith Jardine gets paid 10k fighting and beating Chuck Liddel... you gotta know there is something up. Didn't he mention that he spent more on that training camp then he made?? If the UFC wants to keep these pay scales then they should atleast add a benefit that goes something like this.
> 
> ...


S*omeone comment on this. I really wanna see if people think this is stupid of me to think or good.*

*


sk double i said:



No one says they need to be rich, but fair. I think they have the right to be paid what they produce or what they are worth which is more than what the average fighter is being paid.

$65k sounds like a lot, but bonuses are taxed at about 50%. Also, medical is only covered if they are injured during a fight in the cage. This is why a lot of fighters hold out on injuries until after the fight so it gets covered. Do you know how much it costs out of pocket for a hospital visit?

Click to expand...




sk double i said:



right, bc they dont train or do anything like that. They just walk in the cage and fight for 15 minutes if it even lasts that long. Easy money. We should all become fighters. I have 15 min to spare right now, get me on that next card!!

Click to expand...




VolcomX311 said:



training is a given in any sport. You don't get paid to train until you've "made it." You don't deserve to get financed to train until you've proven your worth. That's true with any sport.

Click to expand...




VolcomX311 said:



As true as all those facts may be, the bottom line comes down to choice. You choose a profession. If it's too hard, leave it or tough it out. What about MMA fighters make them exempt from the facts of life?

and if they have no other means or talents to provide for themselves financially, then they should be grateful they're being paid and paid respectably well for what once was just a hobby. Making a successful livelihood out of a hobby, even if you're on the lower end of the pay scale is a gift.

Click to expand...




VolcomX311 said:



and I don't have health insurance, so I do know how much out of pocket treatments costs. I also have an injury sustaining lifestyle, but i don't get paid for it. It's a hobby and I still love it.

Click to expand...

*
Whats with the Double and Triple posts guys?? You could just use the edit button. :thumbsup:


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> S*omeone comment on this. I really wanna see if people think this is stupid of me to think or good.*
> 
> 
> 
> Whats with the Double and Triple posts guys?? You could just use the edit button. :thumbsup:


No they can't, they don't have an edit button.....


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Life B Ez said:


> No they can't, they don't have an edit button.....


I see, well i apologize then, i shouldnt have gotten on their cases. :confused05:


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## MLD (Oct 15, 2006)

rabakill said:


> 100k is a a fair amount of money, I agree. But there are a few things behind their complaints:
> 
> -100k is nothing in comparison to the stars of any other athlete in the big leagues, Jeter, Crosby, Mayweather, Bryant, Manning and certain wrestling stars(e.g. Cena). When the UFC is selling millions of PPV's getting paid as much as a plumber or electrician is insulting.
> 
> ...


I haven't read all the posts, so forgive me if I am redundant...but I think if a person doesn't want to fight for 100+K per year, then perhaps they should consider becoming a plumber or an electrician. Sure the fighters aren't paid as much as top tier athletes in other sports, but no one is making them fight, and the UFC doesn't owe anyone more money than they choose to spend. It is an "at will" agreement on the part of the fighter. It is also a platform upon which they can build individual name recognition and get lots-o-money in endorsements from corporate entities. If they don't want to make only 100K per year doing something they seemingly love, then they are free to make another career choice like the rest of us. But that is just my opinion.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

sk double i said:


> Do you know how much it costs out of pocket for a hospital visit?


that is soon fixed by Obama's health plan.


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## limitufc (Oct 3, 2008)

gwabblesore said:


> I will _never_ be sympathetic towards this shit from high profile professional athletes.
> 
> "K-1 was offering me $187,500 per fight - five times what the UFC was offering"
> 
> So Dana only offered $37k a fight, 3 fights a year, triple figures, cry me a fuckin river.


lololololololololololololololololol

Right on....

take the larger amount of money or shut the **** up....


having said that.....I really do like BJ Penn.....


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## limitufc (Oct 3, 2008)

hellholming said:


> that is soon fixed by Obama's health plan.


thank the government forced HMOs for that crap...


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## limitufc (Oct 3, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> -"50% of training cost is covered by employer"


Absolutely not.....

A thousand times No!

pay them more...but do not start covering training cost by 50%....

that sounds like the stupid crap the government does....

All it will do is shoot training camp costs up up up!

Give fighters more money...in turn they'll pay the training camps more (if they want to)....

otherwise, you'll turn training camps into what the government has turned health insurance companies into...which in turn as lead to super high healthcare costs...


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## bobbo330 (May 27, 2007)

Even with BJ coming from a wealthy family I cannot begrudge him for wanting to be paid as much as possible at that time. Loyalty only goes so far. At the same time I am not sure I believe BJ when he says that he would have stayed with the UFC for 1/3 the offer made by K-1 but I will take it for face value.

The biggest issue that I have is with Dana's reaction. If an employee of mine approached me and said that he received an offer for 5 times the money he was currently being paid for essentially the same job I would obviously be upset, but to react the way he did is ridiculous. You do what you can to keep BJ but at the end of the day if you cannot pay him the money he is being offered elsewhere, say thank you, wish him luck, and hope to do business again in the future. This happens all the time in life/business. To me, this story validates many other fighters not-so-flattering comments about Dana (not that I disbelieved them before).

It just sounds to me that Dana is a little pissed that his behind closed doors strong arm tactics are being brought to light. With that said it all worked out and BJ is back in the UFC where he belongs. :thumbsup:


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## Evo (Feb 12, 2007)

Rachmunas said:


> Dana White has 6 Ferrari's. How many do the mid level fighters have or even the majority of the top fighters?


I didn't realize those fighters also ran a huge mma business as well. Putting on all those fights, inking all those deals and doing all the marketing work and everything else on top of fighting. They're talented people I must say.

I wish some people would think before they typed.


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## BTR92 (Jan 28, 2010)

The owners and people who run the business are always going to get the higher income, its a fact of life but I have to agree that fighters should be getting paid more or at least receiving some more incentives. Even if the UFC were to pay for health insurance and cover a marginal percentage of training cost. It all adds up.


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