# Paul Daley and Thiago Alves



## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

If Thiago kept this standing this would be a fuuuuuuuun fight. I think Daley is a better striker than Alves. Guy trains with the likes of Badr Hari, Joeri Mes, Melvin Manhoef, Bjorn Bregy, Belani Rashed so nothing that Thiago could offer Paul hasn't seen.

Thiago has his kicks, they are good but how would they affect Daley and as far as boxing Daley has got Thiago beat there. But Thiago could use his size to wear Daley down because he doesn't have the greatest gas tank.


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## Wise (Oct 8, 2006)

It would definitely be a stand up war and I agree that Daley has the edge. That said I also think that Alves would weather the early storm and end up taking the fight later on since like you said, Daley's cardio is suspect. 

Of course in an MMA fight Thiago would most likely just take Daley down and grind him out.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Daley would beat Alves standing. on the ground, it's Alves, but dammit, I want to see them stand. I think Paul Daley can beat any WW standing. Wait, I KNOW he can beat any WW standing.

Dammit Paul, kidnap Aoki and have him teach you BJJ.

Before I die, I must see Paul Taylor vs Paul Daley. It's the battle of the Paul's, and the loser can have his name changed to "Leslie."


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Daley vs Thiago will be crazy fun standing. Paul would mess him up on the feet however Thiago would beat Paul on the ground and since it's MMA he would win.

Paul is the best striker at 170.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

I HAD to bring this post over because it is soooooo funny



69nites said:


> prime example of a time I need to do it.
> 
> Paul Daley hasn't even faught anyone even close to thiago's league to guage his skillset against him.
> 
> ...


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## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

Daley is a beast on the feet. He would destroy Thiago standing and Thiago would beat him on the ground. 

There is no way Thiago has better Muay Thai then Daley and he does not have arguably the best Muay Thai in MMA like 69nites says.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

Damone said:


> Daley would beat Alves standing. on the ground, it's Alves, but dammit, I want to see them stand. I think Paul Daley can beat any WW standing. Wait, I KNOW he can beat any WW standing.
> 
> Dammit Paul, kidnap Aoki and have him teach you BJJ.
> 
> Before I die, I must see Paul Taylor vs Paul Daley. It's the battle of the Paul's, and the loser can have his name changed to "Leslie."


I know he has been working on his ground game with Antonio Carvalho.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Yea MLS and Dida's working with Andre Galvao but we both know chances are neither will get a ground game anytime soon.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

Then lets setup Paul vs Dida, we can just ignore the weight difference or as I stated in the "if you are Dana White" thread to get rid of wrestling in mma.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Hell it would be some real fun I have no doubt Dida has the power to knock out Daley but Daley is tough guy to hit at times so Dida might not be able to land a big shot before Daley gets his shots in.


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## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

We wouldn't have to worry about wrestling if Dida and Daley fought and we know someone would get KO'ed.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Haha yea Dida has no interest in ground game. He took a guys back and then just decided to stand up.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

I'd like to see it, something tell me Alves would be way too explosive and powerful for Daley.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

Terry, Paul trains and spars with Manhoef, doubt Thiago is more explosive than Manhoef and at Mike's Gym they have hard sparring sessions. Now if you are talking about going for takedowns I would agree.

Such a nasty clinch






Go to the 6 min mark and wait for the KO


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## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

Wow that was a nasty elbow in the first video.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

MLS said:


> Terry, Paul trains and spars with Manhoef, doubt Thiago is more explosive than Manhoef and at Mike's Gym they have hard sparring sessions. Now if you are talking about going for takedowns I would agree.


I agree Daley is not to be fucked with, but Thiago is no slouch when it comes to quality trainers down in ATT (Howard Davis Jr. working on his hands). And the fighters coming through American Top Team is absolutely insane http://www.americantopteam.com/fighters.php

I'd give Daley the edge on more refined standup, but I think Thiago could knock him out


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

I don't know if he could KO Daley because Thiago's hands aren't that great and Paul has never been KO'd in any type of fighting and his lone TKO loss in mma is when he dislocated his thumb.

Thiago hasn't fought a really good striker in mma, the best being Marcus Davis and he took him to a split decision.

Daley fought and stopped Duane Ludwig after dropping him with a punch.

You also look at the one common opponent they have (that I can think of) John Alessio, Alves won a UD where Daley stopped him with strikes.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

MLS said:


> I HAD to bring this post over because it is soooooo funny


I suppose you have an example of someone more accomplished in pure Muay Thai in the WW division?

I'd like to be enlightened if there's someone who has better credencials than being a brazilian National Champion...


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

Yes, Paul Daley a Muay Thai champion and Duane Ludwig a muay thai champion.

Not only that, Daley has beaten a K-1 Max fighter in Marius Buzinkas, not only beat him but knocked him out. And he also stopped Ludwig with his striking and Ludwig's striking resume *greatly* trumps Alves'.


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

I think the only main disadvantage that Daley has in this one is the massive size difference. Daley is a pretty small WW and well, Thiago is pretty much MW. But if they were the same size, then this one would be Daley all day long, no question about it.

The dude is just so nasty, and has such a refined striking game that it's scary, too bad he's pretty small.


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## FunkYou (Apr 22, 2007)

Paul Daley should be brought to the UFC just so he and Paul Taylor could fight. Two very good strikers both of whom are small WW. 

EDIT: Dammit, Damone beat me to this idea.

Standing he would smoke Alves but sometimes I wonder if Daley has even heard of grappling. Alves has good kicks and knees and an ok ground game but I don't think he is all that great of a fighter apart from that.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Well MLS, I'm glad that Daley is, at least training BJJ, and Pato Carvalho's no slouch and is a great teacher, so yeah, let's hope he can become the fighter we know he can be. With sub skills, Daley is freakin' dangerous. Hell, without sub skills, he's dangerous.

69nites, I suggest you watch more MMA besides the UFC. I know, I know, it's on Free TV, and it can be a pain to search out other shows, but still, I can 2 WW's that are better strikers than Alves: Paul Taylor and Paul Daley, and shit, Taylor's in the UFC, for crying out loud.

Also, I believe you said that it'll be hard to find a better muay thai striker in all of MMA. Good lord, ever hear of Alistair Overeem? Dudes is better than Thiago Alves standing.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

MLS said:


> Yes, Paul Daley a Muay Thai champion and Duane Ludwig a muay thai champion.
> 
> Not only that, Daley has beaten a K-1 Max fighter in Marius Buzinkas, not only beat him but knocked him out. And he also stopped Ludwig with his striking and Ludwig's striking resume *greatly* trumps Alves'.


I can't find any information about Daley being a Muay Thai champ at a national level anywhere. Maybe regional? 

Alves won a Muay Thai championship at the highest level there is in probably the most competative country for the sport. And he didn't just do it once, he did it twice.

I don't know why you're bringing up non-muay thai credencials when that's what I was refering to in the bolded statement you quoted above. Call me crazy but I think the best way to judge Muay Thai skills is in a muay thai fight under muay thai rules. Maybe it's just me.


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## ThaFranchise (Dec 24, 2007)

Is it jus me or would Alves be like 20 lbs heavier than him in the ring? At that point I dont think itd matter who had better "technical" striking, Alves by 2nd Round KO.


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

69nites said:


> Alves won a Muay Thai championship at the highest level there is in probably the most competative country for the sport.


Was that in Thailand or Holland?


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

XitUp said:


> Was that in Thailand or Holland?


I would consider Brazil and Thailand to be the 2 most competitive countries for Muay Thai.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

69nites said:


> I can't find any information about Daley being a Muay Thai champ at a national level anywhere. Maybe regional?
> 
> Alves won a Muay Thai championship at the highest level there is in probably the most competative country for the sport. And he didn't just do it once, he did it twice.


King of the Ring Champion.

Doesn't that belt look nice?












> I don't know why you're bringing up non-muay thai credencials when that's what I was refering to in the bolded statement you quoted above. Call me crazy but I think the best way to judge Muay Thai skills is in a muay thai fight under muay thai rules. Maybe it's just me.


You really need to do research, Daley KO'd Marius Buzinkas in a muay thai fight. And lets look at Ludwig's resume, he is like 44-6 in muay thai, ISKA World Junior Middleweight Muay Thai champion and he beat Malaipet to win that title, went to a decision against Ramon Dekkers and John Wayne Parr and Daley pretty much KO'ed him (dropped him with a punch and Duane was out but Paul followed up with hammer fists).



69nites said:


> I would consider Brazil and Thailand to be the 2 most competitive countries for Muay Thai.


And you would be waaaaaaaaaaay off. It's the Thais and the Dutch and Brazil isn't even close to those two. I can name one Dutch fighter and they will have been more successful than all the Brazilians combined including Marfio Canoletti. I actually can think of a fighter from the Ukraine who is only 22 that has done more in Muay Thai than pretty much any Brazilian or how about a dutch fighter who is 23 that has done more as well.


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## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

69nites said:


> I would consider Brazil and Thailand to be the 2 most competitive countries for Muay Thai.


Why do people talk about stuff that they know nothing about?

Brazilian Muay Thai is nowhere near comparable to Thailand or Holland Muay Thai. To claim that Brazil is on the same level of competition as Thailand just shows your utter lack of knowledge on Muay Thai.


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## ThaFranchise (Dec 24, 2007)

MJB23 said:


> Why do people talk about stuff that they know nothing about?
> 
> Brazilian Muay Thai is nowhere near comparable to Thailand or Holland Muay Thai. To claim that Brazil is on the same level of competition as Thailand just shows your utter lack of knowledge on Muay Thai.


Bahaha MJB laying down the law again, Im glad Im not on the wrong side of it this time


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

MJB23 said:


> Why do people talk about stuff that they know nothing about?


They like to look stupid? :dunno:


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## Bazza89 (Dec 31, 2006)

69nites said:


> in probably the most competative country for the sport.





69nites said:


> I would consider Brazil and Thailand to be the 2 most competitive countries for Muay Thai.



Haha, I was just gonna take out my bad day at work by sh*tting all over these comments but it looks like I was beat to it.

I'm not a fan of Alves TBH but even if I was I'd know his capabilities. If you think Brazil has a higher level of Muay Thai competition than Holland then you're just plain wrong.

I've got nothing against someone thinking that Alves could beat Daley standing, I disagree but it's your opinion. However, claiming he's got better Muay Thai credentials and using points like the ones quoted above to back it up is just crazy IMO.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

Wow Bazza, thanks I didn't even see this until you posted it



69nites said:


> in probably the most competative country for the sport.


So now it's Brazil>Thais and Dutch in Muay Thai. :confused02:


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## Bazza89 (Dec 31, 2006)

I know, talk about cheapening your whole argument by basing it on a completely mental opinion.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

ThaFranchise said:


> Is it jus me or would Alves be like 20 lbs heavier than him in the ring? At that point I dont think itd matter who had better "technical" striking, Alves by 2nd Round KO.


This is why I'm not a fan of weight cutting.

Hey, why try to be better when you can just cut a shit ton of weight?


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

Let me do this, Dutch and Thai fighters off the top of my head that were/are *WORLD* champions and clearly I am leaving guys off the list because I'm doing this quickly or they haven't won a *WORLD* championship, only European, National championships, or Stadium Championships (which actually mean as much as world titles.)

Dutch - Ramon Dekkers, Rob Kaman, Peter Aerts, Remy Bonjasky, Ivan Hippolyte, Ernesto Hoost, Peter Smit, Lloyd van Dams, Ricardo van den Bos, Ginty Vrede, Van de Boss, Lucien Carbin, André Brilleman, Joao Vierra, Milo El Geubli

Thai - Dieselnoi Chor Thanasukarn, Apidej Sit Hrun, Sirimongkol Singwangcha, Buakaw Por. Pramuk, Jomhod Kiatadisak, Anuwat Kaewsamrit, Kaoklai Kaennorsing, Yodsanklai Fairtex, Naruepol Fairtex, Lamsongkram Chuwattana, Danthai Singmanasak, Ben Chor Praram, Kaew Fairtex, Jomthong Chuwattana, Khaiasit Chuwattana, Malaipet Team Diamond


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## Bazza89 (Dec 31, 2006)

Damone said:


> This is why I'm not a fan of weight cutting.
> 
> Hey, why try to be better when you can just cut a shit ton of weight?


I was thinking about that the other day. I was reading a Wand interview where he was saying he doesn't like to weigh more that 215 and a lot of the time he's around 210.

Alves weighs 200lbs in the ring so considering you've got LHWs like Forrest who come into the ring at 230+ and WW like Hazelett who don't even cut weight you could have two fighters within 10lbs of each other where their opponents have a 60lb weight difference. That's crazy.


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## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

MLS said:


> They like to look stupid? :dunno:


That's the only reason I can think of.

You should do a list of Brazilians who have won a world championship to compare to the list of Dutch and Thai fighters that have, if there are even any Brazilians that have won one.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

I would but I can't think of any Brazilian who has won a world title.


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## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

I didn't think there were any.

Still think Brazilian MT is as good as Dutch and Thai MT 69nites?


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

Only Brazilians that I can think of that were worth a damn in Muay Thai were Marfio Canoletti, Eduardo Maiorino, and Vitor Miranda but they all just won national titles. Which if we added national titles and stadium titles to the list of Dutch and Thai fighters I did a couple posts up it would explode.


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## BloodJunkie (Jun 18, 2007)

WOW! I'm just coming back to the forums but i got to get in on this one!

69nites, are you kidding man? You can't honestly think that Brazilian Muay Thai is any where near Thai and Dutch level. 

You are in company with people that actually know what they are talking about in regards to high level striking. Do yourself a favor and learn something before you start talking out of the side of your neck with things like.....Brazil is one of the most competitive nations in the world in Muay Thai! BAHAHAHA


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

I notice someone's absence from this thread.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

MJB23 said:


> Why do people talk about stuff that they know nothing about?
> 
> Brazilian Muay Thai is nowhere near comparable to Thailand or Holland Muay Thai. To claim that Brazil is on the same level of competition as Thailand just shows your utter lack of knowledge on Muay Thai.


It's not entirely his fault, it's advertised like a big deal in the UFC. Anderson Silva' muay thai is pretty awesome, and a lot of people use that as a measuring stick for Brazilian MT in MMA. Junior dos Santos and Shogun (I think) are both Brazilian national champs, but if you put them in there against the top Dutch and Thai fighters in pure MT, they'd get worked.



Damone said:


> This is why I'm not a fan of weight cutting.
> 
> Hey, why try to be better when you can just cut a shit ton of weight?


Alves would be a pretty small middleweight though, he's only 5'10". His problem is that he has way too much muscle mass, and really I don't think it's necessary to be that jacked. At MW he'd look like Matt Serra does at WW.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

If he was just confused I would be with you Fedor>All but he tried to pass it off as fact like he was a Muay Thai expert.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> If he was just confused I would be with you Fedor>All but he tried to pass it off as fact like he was a Muay Thai expert.


Wait, he isn't?


:laugh:


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

This was the statement where I was most like, wtf?



69nites said:


> Alves won a Muay Thai championship at the highest level there is in probably the most competative country for the sport. And he didn't just do it once, he did it twice.


So winning championships at Lumpinee Stadium and Rajadamnern Stadium must be pretty easy now. :dunno:

But I still thin Daley takes it on the feet pretty handily and if it hits the ground he is screwed even though he has shown some improvements in his tdd.


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