# So, now can we call Anderson the best?



## hollando (Apr 11, 2007)

I know i havnt been on lately my brothas 

but seriously 

its time


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## geoff0011 (May 27, 2007)

Now I just want to see Rich Franklin vs Dan Henderson after Silva's comment.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

I'm a believer now!raise01:raise01:raise01:


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## blaked (Jan 10, 2008)

hollando said:


> I know i havnt been on lately my brothas
> 
> but seriously
> 
> its time


I wish we could have seen some more stand up. I still dont really know how great Silva's chin is. Does it even matter? haha


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## hollando (Apr 11, 2007)

ahahaha

hail to the kid baby 

man that boi is one slick pimp


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## DAPHENOM (Jun 16, 2007)

who were his defeats to?


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## hollando (Apr 11, 2007)

blaked said:


> I wish we could have seen some more stand up. I still dont really know how great Silva's chin is. Does it even matter? haha


no it does not 

ahahaha


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## Team Punishment (Jul 4, 2006)

Bonnar426 said:


> I'm a believer now!raise01:raise01:raise01:


same here:thumbsup:


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## Redrum (Jan 30, 2008)

i do think that after tonight's victory, silva is the best p4p fighter in the world, and may be for quite some time.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

To call him the best what?

185'er? He already is, thats undisputed.
p4p? That isn't so easy. Gsp and Silva both trashed the dominating division champions so it's a tough call.


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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

"ON PAPER" Silva can definitely be considered the best now. Nobody else has been as successful and as dominating as him. Through all of his great victories I never even see him with a scratch in the end which is amazing in mma. So "ON PAPER" he is definitely the best. But to say he is without a doubt the best pound for pound is impossible and would only be an opinion, not a fact.


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## hollando (Apr 11, 2007)

to be honest i was just happy dan didnt get a usually MW gift decision 

i love the guy but its the truth


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## hollando (Apr 11, 2007)

GMW said:


> To call him the best what?
> 
> 185'er? He already is, thats undisputed.
> p4p? That isn't so easy. Gsp and Silva both trashed the dominating division champions so it's a tough call.


i would put silva above gsp 

at least until gsp can radeem himself in montreal


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## hollando (Apr 11, 2007)

towwffc said:


> "ON PAPER" Silva can definitely be considered the best now. Nobody else has been as successful and as dominating as him. Through all of his great victories I never even see him with a scratch in the end which is amazing in mma. So "ON PAPER" he is definitely the best. But to say he is without a doubt the best pound for pound is impossible and would only be an opinion, not a fact.


yah but P4P is all about personal opinion there is no way around it 

i just think he silenced anyone who thought he wasnt the best 185er

i mean you could argue that he needs to fight okami first


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## blaked (Jan 10, 2008)

hollando said:


> yah but P4P is all about personal opinion there is no way around it
> 
> i just think he silenced anyone who thought he wasnt the best 185er
> 
> i mean you could argue that he needs to fight okami first


It would be a rematch. I think the reason being that it would be a rematch will make it happen now.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

hollando said:


> i would put silva above gsp
> 
> at least until gsp can radeem himself in montreal


I'm leaning towards him being #1 for now also because of the Serra loss, but I'm not sure. These two are really making it hard to decide #1...but! it's not easily Silva imo.


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## buo (Oct 15, 2006)

I'm not saying that won't ever lose..but the guy in my book has separated himself from the flock. I don't wan't to sound like Jim Brown, but that guy's got TECHNIQUE and wins by it not by swinging aimlessly, or throwing hail-maries, not by scrapping ....of tackling and laying on ppl.
the guy just greatly improves...*makes fool of his opponents*, finds ways to not only win but finish, very smart fighter but never backs down or stalls just to win...
if he still isn't the best...at least he's getting there :thumbsup:


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

"So now can we call Anderson the best?"

In a word? Yes.

That will change though if GSP dismantles Serra. Then we'll have a pretty good debate, with both men worthy of the p4p title.


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## Nate6000 (Mar 31, 2007)

blaked said:


> It would be a rematch. I think the reason being that it would be a rematch will make it happen now.


Thats a good point they will probably give Okami the Title shot. They will advertise it as a unfinished fight.


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## hollando (Apr 11, 2007)

blaked said:


> It would be a rematch. I think the reason being that it would be a rematch will make it happen now.


its just hard to say that okami desearves it when he got tooled by franklin


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Dude is a monster man. P4P is impossible to gage though. If BJ or GSP was 6'2 I would probably pick each of them to beat Silva. But I have no problem with him being called the best. He is the man right now.


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## hollando (Apr 11, 2007)

GMW said:


> I'm leaning towards him being #1 for now also because of the Serra loss, but I'm not sure. These two are really making it hard to decide #1...but! it's not easily Silva imo.


well the funni thing was when i started the thread i wasnt even reffering to number contendership

i was more for 185er 

and how everyone said anderson was fighting second tier fighters


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## hollando (Apr 11, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Dude is a monster man. P4P is impossible to gage though. If BJ or GSP was 6'2 I would probably pick each of them to beat Silva. But I have no problem with him being called the best. He is the man right now.


i dunno bj needs more wins for me to think of him anywhere near p4p

and if gsp can prove to keep his head on 

ill give him p4p in time

we'll see how things go in montreal


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## Nate6000 (Mar 31, 2007)

Flak said:


> "So now can we call Anderson the best?"
> 
> In a word? Yes.
> 
> That will change though if GSP dismantles Serra. Then we'll have a pretty good debate, with both men worthy of the p4p title.


I dont know if even then we could argue GSP and Silva for Pound 4 Pound. GSP lost to Huhges and Serra, Silva has dominated everyone.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

hollando said:


> its just hard to say that okami desearves it when he got tooled by franklin


Okami wasn't completely tooled. He came out strong in the last round. He actually had Franklin in a deep kimura.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

blaked said:


> I wish we could have seen some more stand up. I still dont really know how great Silva's chin is. Does it even matter? haha


WTF, did you watch the fight, silva took some hard shots from hendo. He just ate them for lunch and went forward.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

hollando said:


> i would put silva above gsp
> 
> at least until gsp can radeem himself in montreal


Silva's got 4 top notch wins now I'd say; Henderson, Franklin (x2) and Marquardt.

GSP's still got 6 Sherk, Hughes(x2), Penn, Trigg and Mayhem.


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## LockNhold (Feb 3, 2008)

a McDonalds worker.. who would have ever known,,:dunno:


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## blaked (Jan 10, 2008)

yorT said:


> WTF, did you watch the fight, silva took some hard shots from hendo. He just ate them for lunch and went forward.


There really wasnt any clear shots. Hendo was taking more of the striking then Silva in my opinion.


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## raymardo (Jun 21, 2006)

He hasn't faced Andy Wang yet.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Nate6000 said:


> I dont know if even then we could argue GSP and Silva for Pound 4 Pound. GSP lost to Huhges and Serra, Silva has dominated everyone.


Knocking out Hughes, then submitting him erases that loss. Same will go with Serra if he kills him too.

Past losses count i agree, but only to a point. I don't count the Chonan loss against Silva....because he has improved greatly and shown he is better than that since then. GSP has the opportunity to do the same. If he does, absolutely he belongs aside Anderson for the p4p title. I only hope we get to see the fight one day....while both are still on top.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

blaked said:


> There really wasnt any clear shots. Hendo was taking more of the striking then Silva in my opinion.


Silva ate a straight right or a cross from Hendo and it didn't bother him.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Flak said:


> Knocking out Hughes, then submitting him erases that loss. Same will go with Serra if he kills him too.
> 
> Past losses count i agree, but only to a point. I don't count the Chonan loss against Silva....because he has improved greatly and shown he is better than that since then. GSP has the opportunity to do the same. If he does, absolutely he belongs aside Anderson for the p4p title. I only hope we get to see the fight one day....while both are still on top.


Anderson Silva lost to Daiju Takase, which is worse than losing to Matt Serra.


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## blaked (Jan 10, 2008)

mlsman23 said:


> Silva ate a straight right or a cross from Hendo and it didn't bother him.


I gotta rewatch the fight again, lol i was probably digging my head into the floor cause i was pulling for Hendo to win.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

blaked said:


> There really wasnt any clear shots. Hendo was taking more of the striking then Silva in my opinion.


Dude, when someone posts the fight up, go watch the second round again, silva got hit hard at the beginning. Just didn't look like it because his head didn't move at all and he just went forward on his mission to defeat henderson.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

You know....you're right.

Anderson sucks! Hehe


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## Street Fighter (Oct 16, 2006)

raymardo said:


> He hasn't faced Andy Wang yet.


:laugh:


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

Fedor>all said:


> Silva's got 4 top notch wins now I'd say; Henderson, Franklin (x2) and Marquardt.
> 
> GSP's still got 6 Sherk, Hughes(x2), Penn, Trigg and Mayhem.


Don't forget Karo!


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## ShadyNismo (Jun 18, 2007)

imo Silva is p4p the best, Silva Vs Gsp would be an awesome fight, if they were in the same weight class. Even if they fight i still would think Silva would win,i really like Gsp.. i mean look at my sig... lol but Silva is just too Accurate, but Gsp might be able to submit him.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> Silva's got 4 top notch wins now I'd say; Henderson, Franklin (x2) and Marquardt.
> 
> GSP's still got 6 Sherk, Hughes(x2), Penn, Trigg and Mayhem.


You forgot Karo or maybe you didn't Idk I just know I think if you putting Mayhem and Marquardt as top notch then i think Karo belongs there to.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Three guys are at the top of the P4P rankings. GSP, Anderson, and JZ Calvancanti in that order IMO.

If GSP beats Serra than I think it's not even close. Anderson has a better case now with a win over Henderson. If JZ wins the Dreams LWGP than I'm pretty sure I don't care who fights who if he wins it again JZ is going to be #1.


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

Bonnar426 said:


> Don't forget Karo!


And Koschek...

Silva's the best atm until GSP can redeem himself against Serra, let him have his moment, he's faced everyone that was great in the MW div, now he's gonna be doing alot of rematches and b-fighters, so judge later.


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## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Three guys are at the top of the P4P rankings. GSP, Anderson, and JZ Calvancanti in that order IMO.
> 
> If GSP beats Serra than I think it's not even close. Anderson has a better case now with a win over Henderson. If JZ wins the Dreams LWGP than I'm pretty sure I don't care who fights who if he wins it again JZ is going to be #1.


Here comes again. It's not even close. When GSP gets the title and holds on to it four straight times versus top competition then we can debate it.

If GSP goes up to 185 pounds he would get murdered to. He will get KOed or forced to submit within the two first rounds, same as everyone else that dared to challenge Anderson Silva for the past two years.


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## JWP (Jun 4, 2007)

valrond said:


> Here comes again. It's not even close. When GSP gets the title and holds on to it four straight times versus top competition then we can debate it.
> 
> If GSP goes up to 185 pounds he would get murdered to. He will get KOed or forced to submit within the two first rounds, same as everyone else that dared to challenge Anderson Silva for the past two years.


Totally agree. As much as I love GSP, Anderson is like Jordan to his Magic hehe


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## donttouchthat (Dec 31, 2006)

I have to agree with what Dan Henderson said when asked about P4P. You can't really gauge someone P4P until they move up/down weight classes and are successful there. 

BJ Penn and Dan Henderson imho are better fighters P4P then Anderson Silva and GSP.

BJ holds the belt at LW, and has held the belt at WW. He's also had victories at MW.

Dan Henderson has held the belt in both MW and LHW.

I personally don't think GSP or Anderson will ever hold the belt in another weight class.

Of course, this is all my personal opinion.


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## SuzukS (Nov 11, 2006)

GMW said:


> To call him the best what?
> 
> 185'er? He already is, thats undisputed.
> p4p? That isn't so easy. Gsp and Silva both trashed the dominating division champions so it's a tough call.


True, but GSP got (basically) owned right after winning his title, while Silva has defended his title three times since winning it, stopping all fighters within the first two rounds. I'd definately call Silva the top p4p fighter at the moment. 
No one really comes close to taking that title from him anytime soon either, Rampage is close but still needs to do more since he's only beaten Liddell in convincing fashion lately.


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## Warchild (Feb 5, 2008)

Silva the best? I don't know but the guy hasn't seen the end of the 2nd rd since New Years 2004, that sounds like one badass guy to me and I said if he owns Hendo then I would acknowledge his supremacy and well, he did it, he is the best.


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## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

donttouchthat said:


> I have to agree with what Dan Henderson said when asked about P4P. You can't really gauge someone P4P until they move up/down weight classes and are successful there.
> 
> BJ Penn and Dan Henderson imho are better fighters P4P then Anderson Silva and GSP.
> 
> ...


Anderson Silva will go to LHW and he will dominate there like he did with the MW division. He has finished Dan Henderson, only the Nogueiras finished him, and only little Nog did it faster than Anderson Silva.

What LHW have a real chance of beating him?

None of the strikers are as good as Silva standing or in the ground, Wanderlei, Lidell, Jardine don't stand a chance vs him. Hendo can't do anything either. Maybe Rampage or Forrest, but I don't see it very likely. Shogun would get killed in the stand up or submitted on the ground.

Seriously, if he moves to the 205 division, he should be given a title shot vs the champion at that time.

He's 6-2, so he's not smaller than any other LHW.

There is no one so well rounded as Silva. He's the best striker in the world. Not even a superb greco-roman wrestler as Dan Henderson could hold him in the clinch.

The only way to beat him is to control him in the ground like Hendo did on round one, but it's not an easy task. That, or being an overall better fighter, and only Fedor is as good overall as Silva.


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## Warchild (Feb 5, 2008)

You're telling me that he's a better striker than Liddell? Maybe more accurate but better and I'm going to have to disagree. Plus, I don't think he'd be able to hold a clinch on Liddell.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

valrond said:


> Anderson Silva will go to LHW and he will dominate there like he did with the MW division. He has finished Dan Henderson, only the Nogueiras finished him, and only little Nog did it faster than Anderson Silva.
> 
> What LHW have a real chance of beating him?
> 
> ...


He doesn't have amazing TDD, and there are a few god wrestlers at 205. He could be controlled on the ground by the likes of Rampage, or even Tito(and I am not a Tito fan at all).
His height doesn't mean much, he'd still be a small LHW and he would give up a lot of strength.

Yes, I think at this stage it would be right to call Silva the no. 1 p4p in MMA.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Three guys are at the top of the P4P rankings. GSP, Anderson, and JZ Calvancanti in that order IMO.
> 
> If GSP beats Serra than I think it's not even close. Anderson has a better case now with a win over Henderson. If JZ wins the Dreams LWGP than I'm pretty sure I don't care who fights who if he wins it again JZ is going to be #1.


How could you say its not even close? What are you using to measure by?


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> He doesn't have amazing TDD, and there are a few god wrestlers at 205. He could be controlled on the ground by the likes of Rampage, or even Tito(and I am not a Tito fan at all).
> His height doesn't mean much, he'd still be a small LHW and he would give up a lot of strength.
> 
> Yes, I think at this stage it would be right to call Silva the no. 1 p4p in MMA.


But henderson had silva in a greco clinch in the second round and couldn't score a takedown.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

yorT said:


> But henderson had silva in a greco clinch in the second round and couldn't score a takedown.


True, but remember out of two takedown attempts Silva got taken down once. 
I am not saying he has bad TDD, it's just the weakest part of his game.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> True, but remember out of two takedown attempts Silva got taken down once.
> I am not saying he has bad TDD, it's just the weakest part of his game.


Out of two td attempts by a Olympian greco-roman wrestler he only got one, i would say thats pretty damn impressive. So would you say rampages tdd is bad?


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

yorT said:


> Out of two td attempts by a Olympian greco-roman wrestler he only got one, i would say thats pretty damn impressive. So would you say rampages tdd is bad?


No, but Rampage spent 25 minutes fighting Hendo, Silva how long? Of which he was on the floor for about half. So that compaison doesn't make sense.
Are we even debating this? You don't believe Silvas TDD/wrestling is the worst part of his game lol?


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> No, but Rampage spent 25 minutes fighting Hendo, Silva how long? Of which he was on the floor for about half. So that compaison doesn't make sense.
> Are we even debating this? You don't believe Silvas TDD/wrestling is the worst part of his game lol?


It is definitly the "wrost" part of his game but his tdd is far from bad, it is actually really good.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

yorT said:


> It is definitly the "wrost" part of his game but his tdd is far from bad, it is actually really good.


Yes it is, thank you. But I think you and I disagree on what constitutes "really good TDD".


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> Yes it is, thank you. But I think you and I disagree on what constitutes "really good TDD".


There is only one fight were his tdd looked under par and that is lutter, but after that i can't think of any other fight.


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## Kin (May 22, 2007)

Warchild said:


> You're telling me that he's a better striker than Liddell? Maybe more accurate but better and I'm going to have to disagree. Plus, I don't think he'd be able to hold a clinch on Liddell.


Are you kidding? Liddel is a top-notch striker now? Aside from power, what does Liddell have over Anderson in the striking dept?


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

yorT said:


> There is only one fight were his tdd looked under par and that is lutter, but after that i can't think of any other fight.


Okami took him down, despite his pathetic shoots in that fight, Sakurai took him down despite being tiny in comparison(that fight was ages ago though).

Seriosuly, if Hendo hadn't got stupid in that fight he could have won. It would have been boring as ****, but he could have done it. As could Page, Tito....any fighter with great takedowns and top control *could* beat Silva.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> Okami took him down, despite his pathetic shoots in that fight, Sakurai took him down despite being tiny in comparison(that fight was ages ago though).


Yeah out of how many attempts by each? Alot



> Seriosuly, if Hendo hadn't got stupid in that fight he could have won. It would have been boring as ****, but he could have done it. As could Page, Tito....any fighter with great takedowns and top control *could* beat Silva.


Because hendo got stupid he lost not because anderson completely tool in in the second round?


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Can we call Anderson the best at 185?

Personally, I think so, though I'd like to see him fight Filho to be absolutely sure.

That said, let's not talk about moving Anderson up a division and still being the best just yet, because we don't know how he'll react to fighting bigger opponents and to dealing with guys his reach doesn't work on. It's all just speculation right now.


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## sicc (Mar 4, 2007)

I think GSP is better P4P, bust Silva is still really good. I was upset last night, I really wanted to see 5 rounds from Hendo and Silva


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

yorT said:


> Yeah out of how many attempts by each? Alot
> 
> 
> 
> Because hendo got stupid he lost not because anderson completely tool in in the second round?



Okami was shooting from like 5 feet away, yet he still got him, Sakurai is a tiny WW lol and both stillmanaged it. This shows "Very good TDD"?

Yes, Hendo pulled out of the clinch, started throwng wild shots and ducking his head and payed the price. He could have held Silva against the fence for five minutes and won that ound, and again, and again, and again, or taking him down nd done what he did in the first round. It would have sucked ass, but he could have done it. Was Hendo not winning that fight up till the point he pulled out of the clinch and started throwing haymakers?


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## NavyChief (Oct 10, 2007)

er....yes. We can.

I don't know who the hell they think is gonna beat this guy at MW. Except of course Michael "The Countess" Bisping. <--------JOKE!!!!!!!!

Personally, after hearing Mikes "I am a contender already" remarks...I say give him what he is asking for. Toss his silly ass in with Anderson. It'd be like throwing a poodle into the box with a APB terrier. Then maybe Mikey would jump back on a boat and get back over the pond. At a minimum it might shut him up.

Seriously though...who else is there that is gonna give Anderson a challenge at Middle Weight? Nobody, that's who.

He needs to go after the LHW belt. I fully believe he could waltz through most of *that* division as well. He could very easily make 205. And he could seriously contend for the title. He walks around at nearly 200 pounds anyway. It would be a cakewalk for him to bulk up a bit.


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## NavyChief (Oct 10, 2007)

valrond said:


> ....If GSP goes up to 185 pounds he would get murdered to. He will get KOed or forced to submit within the two first rounds, same as everyone else that dared to challenge Anderson Silva for the past two years.


I gotta agree with ya here mate.


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## NavyChief (Oct 10, 2007)

yorT said:


> WTF, did you watch the fight, silva took some hard shots from hendo. He just ate them for lunch and went forward.


That he did. Dan caught Silva with some very very solid punches that Anderson pretty much shook off. Something else that Dan was doing sort of looked (at the least) a bit...odd. Clamping his entire hand over Silva's mouth and nose like three different times. Yes, I know that is a tactic of sorts, but he was putting it there and KEEPING it there...for about 5-10 seconds at a stretch. I was sort of suprised that Herb Dean didn't warn him about it.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

NavyChief said:


> That he did. Dan caught Silva with some very very solid punches that Anderson pretty much shook off. Something else that Dan was doing sort of looked (at the least) a bit...odd. Clamping his entire hand over Silva's mouth and nose like three different times. Yes, I know that is a tactic of sorts, but he was putting it there and KEEPING it there...for about 5-10 seconds at a stretch. I was sort of suprised that Herb Dean didn't warn him about it.


Thats legal, people do it all the time.


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## Ryan1522 (Oct 31, 2006)

NavyChief said:


> That he did. Dan caught Silva with some very very solid punches that Anderson pretty much shook off. Something else that Dan was doing sort of looked (at the least) a bit...odd. Clamping his entire hand over Silva's mouth and nose like three different times. Yes, I know that is a tactic of sorts, but he was putting it there and KEEPING it there...for about 5-10 seconds at a stretch. I was sort of suprised that Herb Dean didn't warn him about it.


Where is there a rule stating you can't keep your hand over someone's mouth?

More on topic, I think p4p Anderson would be #2 behind Fedor. It would be interesting to see BJ Penn or GSP fight Anderson b/c these fights are fights that could potentially happen wihout either fighter drastically losing or gaining weight outside of their natural weight classes.


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## dombrow3 (Dec 3, 2006)

Might be able to call him that. But the next time GSP fights, they will call him the best. Same when BJ Penn fights! Faber also!


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Id say he's the best P4P fighter now without question. 

He's my soup fighter of the month


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## NavyChief (Oct 10, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> Thats legal, people do it all the time.


I am aware that it is legal...but is normally done almost in passing...and for very brief periods. He was clamping his entire hand over Silva's mouth and nose in what I would call an absolute smothering type fashion and leaving it there for much longer than what seemed normal.

Don't get me wrong...I am not accusing Dan of cheating (hell..I lost 4000 point on him in this fight!)....just IMO...stretching the rules a bit more than he should have. Then again...up against the Spider I can't say as I blame him. Gotta look for whatever advantage you can get.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

*Yes....The Spider is the best*

...To walk through the MW Division with dominance is extremely impressive. Anderson Silva without question is the best Middleweight in the world. I'm getting tired of people still booing him. Boo all they want...each and every time Anderson has shut their asses up...lol..too cool...:laugh: I just hope that finally now he gets the respect he deserves. It bothers me that as soon as Wanderlie came to the UFC, he got accepted immediately. Anderson has been dominating and defending his title over & over again. I'm disapointed in the fans booing him...I'm just glad he's made all of the booers eat some serious crow...lol! For Anderson to still give Rich Franklin props...that's pure class folks. Anderson Silva really is a perfect example of what MMA should stand for. Way to go Spider...:thumbsup:


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

anderson is definitely the best mw 4 sureee:thumb02:


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

slapshot said:


> *Id say he's the best P4P fighter now without question. *
> 
> He's my soup fighter of the month


In the mw division right??? not out of all i think that gsp and bj penn give him a run for his money on that...also fedor


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## Warchild (Feb 5, 2008)

Kin said:


> Are you kidding? Liddel is a top-notch striker now? Aside from power, what does Liddell have over Anderson in the striking dept?


I said Anderson was more accurate but that is how Liddell made his name, thats his bread and butter. Silva would not do well standing and banging punch for punch with CL, just my opinion.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

slapshot said:


> Id say he's the best P4P fighter now without question.
> 
> He's my soup fighter of the month


Didn't you have Mir pictured as well? If you did, thats two good picks.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

stokes1690 said:


> In the mw division right??? not out of all i think that gsp and bj penn give him a run for his money on that...also fedor


That would be a opinion and you're welcome to it but in my opinion he is the P4P best in MMA right now. 

GSP still needs to beat Serra *AND *_prove he can defend the belt without falling apart.
_
BJ has a big fan base here and he is a good fighter but in my mind he's overshadowed by GSP. 

"prepares to be neg repped"

I dont get why anyone would still feel Fedor should be ranked, if you want to stay current you have to fight the top level fighters.

Fedor is probably, arguably, the best fighter of MMA ever. However, if he wants to keep people from speaking of him in past tense he needs to get with some top ranked fighters and rumble. Its not just Fedor inactive fighters should all be docked as well.

You cant not fight or not fight anyone thats worth a shit and still expect to be ranked the same as fighters that are doing both IMO.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

mlsman23 said:


> Didn't you have Mir pictured as well? If you did, thats two good picks.


LOL, I did thats actually what started it, Brock stated "I dont want no more tomato cans" and there was a poster that was trying to discredit Mir so as kind of a inside joke I put Mir in the can as my sig. So the can is my Symbol a underrated fighter. 
There was a Discussion a wile back about how good Silva is or is not and a few people came out to say Dan was going to take Silva apart. I cant even remember who it was but I argued with him for a bit then just gave up, I thought Dan would win but I never felt it would be easy for him.
Anyway at the time it seemed Silva was being underrated so on the can he went:thumb02:


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## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

slapshot said:


> That would be a opinion and you're welcome to it but in my opinion he is the P4P best in MMA right now.
> 
> GSP still needs to beat Serra *AND *_prove he can defend the belt without falling apart.
> _
> ...


You're absolutely right. GSP has to improve his stand up A LOT. As it is right now, he doesn't stand a chance vs Silva. Only his wrestling is better than Silva, and we saw what Silva did to a better, stronger, and not less skilled wrestler like Hendo.


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## burton_o6 (Oct 30, 2007)

NavyChief said:


> I am aware that it is legal...but is normally done almost in passing...and for very brief periods. He was clamping his entire hand over Silva's mouth and nose in what I would call an absolute smothering type fashion and leaving it there for much longer than what seemed normal.
> 
> Don't get me wrong...I am not accusing Dan of cheating (hell..I lost 4000 point on him in this fight!)....just IMO...stretching the rules a bit more than he should have. Then again...up against the Spider I can't say as I blame him. Gotta look for whatever advantage you can get.


I really don't know why anybody would bitch about this. Bj uses this all the time.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

yorT said:


> How could you say its not even close? What are you using to measure by?


Because If GSP beats Serra he would've beaten basically every contender in MMA's WW divison for the last 3 years beside John Fitch.

Anderson hasn't come close to doing that.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Because If GSP beats Serra he would've beaten basically every contender in MMA's WW divison for the last 3 years beside John Fitch.
> 
> Anderson hasn't come close to doing that.


Anderson has beaten, and not by decision, every contender at 185. GSP has many people he still would have to face before he could make the same statement.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

No Anderson has beaten every contender in the UFC at 185. GSP has beaten every contender in MMA at 170 besides Fitch and Serra over the last few years.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

And then Anderson hasn't beaten Okami either so you can't give GSP that much crap for Fitch.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

True and when you look at the fact Lindland, Filho, Lawler, and Akiyama are out there while it's basically just Serra, and Fitch who GSP hasn't beaten if he beats Serra I think he takes a big lead on Anderson.

BTW if JZ wins the GP all this doesn't matter because than he would be the #1P4P.


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## Hett (Apr 30, 2007)

I would do anything to see Silva fight Rampage.


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## burton_o6 (Oct 30, 2007)

I knew GSP was good. But after seeing him completely dominate Hughes in 79, I don't think there are many WW that will come close to him.


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## FlawlessFighter (Jan 6, 2008)

yes best 185er in the world and #1 P4P.

yes GSP could be there in P4P but whos had the belt longer than 1 fight


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## jasonc84 (Nov 9, 2007)

Team Punishment said:


> same here:thumbsup:


Same here will no longer doubt him :thumb02:


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## iSHACKABUKU (Sep 11, 2007)

GSP could contend with Anderson, problem is I dont think GSP could hang mentally. Once shit starts to hit the fan, which it absolutly would GSP would crack similar to Henderson and it would be over.

Anderson is god


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## LockNhold (Feb 3, 2008)

i want to be an Anderson fan, but theres so much man-love and nut-hugging goin on, its makin' it real difficult.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

he will get beat like all the others.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

IS 170 still a fairly unique weight class though? Would explain the lack of 170s in different orgs like there is at 185.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

It's a very American weight class however it's not like the talent level at the top of the WW divison isn't as good if not much better than the talent at MW. 

The difference is that 170's best are all in the UFC 185's best aren't in fact about half of them aren't in the UFC. The only two fighters at 170 you could claim aren't in the UFC and are top fighters are Jake Shields and Carlos Condit.


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## Kin (May 22, 2007)

Warchild said:


> I said Anderson was more accurate but that is how Liddell made his name, thats his bread and butter. Silva would not do well standing and banging punch for punch with CL, just my opinion.


He's good at beating up people who aren't particularly good at striking. 

On the other hand, Chuck doesn't fair so well when his opponents are capable in that area. He got outboxed by Randy Couture, he got KTFO by Rampage twice, and he got outstruck by Keith Jardine. Heck, until Overeem gassed, he was nailing Chuck left and right.

Chuck managed to defeat Wanderlei Silva, mostly because he matches up so well against him. (As in, Silva throws wild *short* haymakers, while Liddell throws *long* yet precise haymakers; reach made a huge difference.) 

None of the above-mentioned fighters are anywhere near Anderson Silva's league, in terms of standup striking. 

Though, I do agree that Anderson wouldn't perform so great trading blow-for-blow against Liddell, I doubt that's what he would do. He's known for out-striking his opponents with technique, not outbrawling them. Anderson would probably take away Chuck's legs, like Jardine did to him. Except, he would also be able to threaten Chuck with deadly striking combinations at the same time. 

Another thing to consider is Silva's knees. I usually don't buy into the 'X could do this to Z cause Y did this to Z and X did this to Y" thing, but...

Rampage KTFO'd Chuck with a punch. Rampage also failed to rock Henderson after landing enough hard shots on Dan's head to break his own hand. Anderson Silva, on the other hand, had been able to Rock Hendo pretty good with a knee-kick-punching combination. He also did some pretty decent damage with punches from the ground. 

Does this mean that Silva's punching power > Rampage's? Probably not. (A. Silva's knees > Rampage's punches could be argued though.) Even so, I think that Silva's striking is more dangerous due to its precision. He's got a lot of power, but even more importantly, his pin-point precision will allow him to tag you where it counts. If that isn't enough, he strings these blows together very fluidly. 

In Chuck's defense, I don't know how Silva would react to somebody with similar or superior reach (who has Chuck's KO power). That is the only reason I would doubt The Spider in said match. But until I see Chuck becoming the Guru of G n P, my money will definitely be on The Spider for that fight.


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## Kin (May 22, 2007)

GMW said:


> And then Anderson hasn't beaten Okami either so you can't give GSP that much crap for Fitch.


As far as I'm concerned, Silva did. =P

Still, I believe that GSP has accomplished more in his career.


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## PrideFan123 (Apr 8, 2007)

Right now, Silva is P4P the best fighter, and the #1 MW fighters in the world. I can see no other person beating him, besides maybe Lindland, and I would still put my money on Silva in that fight after what he did to my man Hendo.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> You forgot Karo or maybe you didn't Idk I just know I think if you putting Mayhem and Marquardt as top notch then i think Karo belongs there to.


Yeah, I forgot. :dunno:


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Anderson would give Chuck a beating!! I honestly dont think Chuck would even try to bang with him. I wouldnt be surprised if Chuck knew he was outclassed in the striking department and went for the TD's. I am really starting to think Anderson could win the LHW title. I know he could beat Rampage thats for sure.


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## JWP (Jun 4, 2007)

valrond said:


> Anderson Silva will go to LHW and he will dominate there like he did with the MW division. He has finished Dan Henderson, only the Nogueiras finished him, and only little Nog did it faster than Anderson Silva.
> 
> What LHW have a real chance of beating him?
> 
> ...


Im with you... and people underestimate his constant improvement and evolution. I was thinkin that maybe Machida might give him a go, would be a good fight.

They arent friends are they... I cant remember


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## Anibus (Feb 4, 2008)

I was pissed for two reasons.
1) He said Rich was tougher than Dan.
2) He didn't touch gloves with Dan in the beginning of the 1st round.

He isn't the best yet. Yushin Okami still needs to fight him.


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## mratch19 (Nov 19, 2007)

he's gonna **** up okami. and silva rarely touches gloves, get over it.


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## mratch19 (Nov 19, 2007)

Anibus said:


> I was pissed for two reasons.
> 1) He said Rich was tougher than Dan.
> 2) He didn't touch gloves with Dan in the beginning of the 1st round.
> 
> He isn't the best yet. Yushin Okami still needs to fight him.


he's gonna **** up okami. and silva rarely touches gloves, get over it.


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## burton_o6 (Oct 30, 2007)

Anibus said:


> I was pissed for two reasons.
> 1) He said Rich was tougher than Dan.
> 2) He didn't touch gloves with Dan in the beginning of the 1st round.
> 
> He isn't the best yet. Yushin Okami still needs to fight him.


Did you happen to see him Bowing to Dan and each of his cornerman one by one?


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Anderson would give Chuck a beating!! I honestly dont think Chuck would even try to bang with him. I wouldnt be surprised if Chuck knew he was outclassed in the striking department and went for the TD's. I am really starting to think Anderson could win the LHW title. *I know he could beat Rampage thats for sure*.


he COULD...but would??? dont think so at 205


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Anibus said:


> I was pissed for two reasons.
> 1) He said Rich was tougher than Dan.
> 2) He didn't touch gloves with Dan in the beginning of the 1st round.
> 
> He isn't the best yet. Yushin Okami still needs to fight him.


First of all, why would you be pissed off about him not touching gloves? That is really, really a dumb reason to be pissed. Second, he said Rich was tougher than Dan because he WAS. How are we supposed to say who was actually tougher? We can say who we thought LOOKED tougher, but to actually say who was isn't our place. And I don't think by beating the hell out of Yushin Okami that Silva will prove anything. He is the best already at 185. :thumbsup:


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## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

stokes1690 said:


> he COULD...but would??? dont think so at 205


By KO or Submission within the two first rounds, like the rest.


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## iSHACKABUKU (Sep 11, 2007)

Anderson would rip Chuck apart to put it nicely.


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## DropKick (Apr 19, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> True and when you look at the fact Lindland, Filho, Lawler, and Akiyama are out there while it's basically just Serra, and Fitch who GSP hasn't beaten if he beats Serra I think he takes a big lead on Anderson.



I disagree. Franklin and Hendo are better fighters than Lawler and Akiyama. I'm not sure about Fihlo, but I think both Franklin and Hendo would beat him as well. Lindland is debatable, but he isn't coming back to the UFC so I guess it doesn't matter. Also, after the way Silva handled Hendo I'm not sure Lindland would fare much better.

Also, Silva has finished all his opponents in the UFC in the first or second round. Who has been more dominant than that? GSP went to decision with BJ, Karo, Kos and Miller. Although he did have dominating wins over Sherk, Hughes and Trigg. 

I have no doubt that GSP's time will come, but right now Silva is the best fighter in the world. I'd put Fedor at number 2.


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## iSHACKABUKU (Sep 11, 2007)

> but right now Silva is the best fighter in the world. I'd put Fedor at number 2.


Fully agree with you


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## Korsakov (Nov 24, 2007)

i can't put anderson at #1 until we see how he does against bisping.


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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

DropKick said:


> Also, Silva has finished all his opponents in the UFC in the first or second round. Who has been more dominant than that? GSP went to decision with *BJ, Karo, Kos and Miller. Although he did have dominating wins over Sherk, Hughes and Trigg.*


Exactly. IMO the welterweight division is full of much better talent than middleweight. So these men that GSP beat are on a different level than the fighters Silva beat. Not taking anything away from Silva but I think people are getting a little carried away saying he will absolutely demolish anybody including top fighters at 205. Franklin and Hernderson were the two guys Silva beat that can be seen as top fighters in the world. Where as GSP had all the fighters you named and all of them except for Miller and Trigg can be considered top in the world. I'm not saying Silva can't beat GSP I just think it's getting a little exaggerated when people say he will murder everyone. Just be realistic about it...He's not god.lol. But some people talk like it.


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## DropKick (Apr 19, 2007)

towwffc said:


> Just be realistic about it...He's not god.lol. But some people talk like it.


Kind of like how some people think of GSP right? If GSP were to fight Silva at 185 Silva would win convincingly. GSP is a great fighter but his stand up is no where near Silva's. His wrestling is a lot better, but Henderson is one of the top guys in the world as far as wrestling goes.

I like GSP, but he hasn't been as impressive as Silva.


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## All_In (Aug 23, 2007)

Korsakov said:


> i can't put anderson at #1 until we see how he does against bisping.


:sign04: I really hope you are being sarcastic.


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## PanKrato (Mar 5, 2007)

DropKick said:


> Kind of like how some people think of GSP right? If GSP were to fight Silva at 185 Silva would win convincingly. GSP is a great fighter but his stand up is no where near Silva's. His wrestling is a lot better, but Henderson is one of the top guys in the world as far as wrestling goes.
> 
> I like GSP, but he hasn't been as impressive as Silva.


Very true. But I don't know about his striking being THAT far away from Silva's. I'd bet the house that it IS BELOW silva, but I'd also say that his is one of the FEW whose standup comes CLOSE. 

STill, all in all, I'd take A Silva in that fight. BUT I would NOT be surprised if GSP pulled an upset.


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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

I don't agree or disagree with you. The point of my post was not to say GSP was better, I just think it is ridiculous when someone says something like fighter a's wrestling ability isn't in the same leauge as fighter b's. Or fighters a's stand up is light years ahead of fighter b's stand up. In some cases that may be true but I think people exagerate a lot. I just use GSP as an example. People would say Koscheck and Hughes wrestling is far superior to GSP's then he beat them both using grappling, which wrestlers usually excel at. I just think people tend to exagerate. People thought Forest was gonna be murdered by Rua and Forest choked him out. Hype seems to be built up through massive exagerations. Silve is good, even great, but not god and fighters like GSP, or BJ Penn, or Rampage or whoever are worldclass in there own right and are capable of giving "ANYBODY" a good fight. Not saying they would beat Silva but for people to say he would pretty much destroy these guys is an exageration, and even though it is an opinion, they state it as if it is a fact and anyone who disagrees is a dumbass.lol.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

DropKick said:


> I disagree. Franklin and Hendo are better fighters than Lawler and Akiyama. I'm not sure about Fihlo, but I think both Franklin and Hendo would beat him as well. Lindland is debatable, but he isn't coming back to the UFC so I guess it doesn't matter. Also, after the way Silva handled Hendo I'm not sure Lindland would fare much better.


I agree that Silva would handle Lindland, but in all seriousness, I don't think that Franklin is better than either Lawler or Akiyama. I don't know how Silva would handle those two guys, but I imagine he would. (notice, I don't say they're better than Hendo, there's a reason for that. They're not)

Still, You never know about Akiyama, he's a slippery guy.



> Also, Silva has finished all his opponents in the UFC in the first or second round. Who has been more dominant than that? GSP went to decision with BJ, Karo, Kos and Miller. Although he did have dominating wins over Sherk, Hughes and Trigg.


I agree with this, but I think that we're seeing alot more evolution out of GSP from fight to fight than we are out of Anderson, and part of that is simply that Anderson's been around longer (and has alot more international experience, which gives him alot of opportunity to pick stuff up), but also it's because Anderson does, like you pointed out, utterly destroy people.

On that grounds, I think that GSP will quickly become that good, but I agree that he isn't as dominant now, not just on the basis of his decision wins, but also as a result of his loss to Serra and his first loss to Hughes. While those were certainly growth fights that we've seen alot of change after, they shouldn't be forgotten.



> I have no doubt that GSP's time will come, but right now Silva is the best fighter in the world. I'd put Fedor at number 2.


I disagree with that, based purely on the history of Fedor's dominance and the fact that I believe he competed in a much more difficult division than Anderson did. That's not to say that Franklin, Marquardt and Hendo aren't great fighters, but it's important to recognize that Fedor came into his first title fight against Nog as a big underdog (I mean, they were calling Noguiera "the great one" in the commentary) and was also almost an underdog in his fight with CroCop (where the odds were even).

I don't think that Anderson has had to handle the adversity that Fedor has in the UFC, because the only fight where we've ever heard people call Anderson an underdog was his first fight with Franklin, and even most people thought that was a little melodramatic.

Like I said, I still consider Fedor #1, but only because he hasn't lost since the fight with TK, while Anderson has dropped a few that he hasn't yet had the chance to avenge, and where he has been beaten in a legal fashion (not by a reopened cut). That's just me though, and it's not an unarguable point.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

raymardo said:


> He hasn't faced Andy Wang yet.


lol every thread has to have an Andy Wang comment to brighten things up. Can't blame ya, the kid's a fckn Warrior.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

DropKick said:


> I disagree. Franklin and Hendo are better fighters than Lawler and Akiyama. I'm not sure about Fihlo, but I think both Franklin and Hendo would beat him as well. Lindland is debatable, but he isn't coming back to the UFC so I guess it doesn't matter. Also, after the way Silva handled Hendo I'm not sure Lindland would fare much better.
> 
> Also, Silva has finished all his opponents in the UFC in the first or second round. Who has been more dominant than that? GSP went to decision with BJ, Karo, Kos and Miller. Although he did have dominating wins over Sherk, Hughes and Trigg.
> 
> I have no doubt that GSP's time will come, but right now Silva is the best fighter in the world. I'd put Fedor at number 2.


Just because you think Henderson and Franklin are better doesn't mean he doesn't have to face them. I mean I think Hughes is better than Serra and Fitch but GSP needs to beat them.

Now the fact he's finished his opponents is very impressive but he did finish Sherk (who no one else has finished), Hughes (the greatest WW of all time) x2, and Trigg Also his decision outside of the BJ one were pretty clear cut.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

For those of you that dont think Anderson could beat Rampage answer me this. What is Rampage's weakeness?? What is Silva's stregnth?? Get back to me when you answer these questions.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

i think it stands between gsp and a.silva and untill they meet its hard to say. but im holding a slight thumbs up for gsp in regards to his opponents.

fedor is of course in the mix but has to fight a a - level soon


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## burton_o6 (Oct 30, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> For those of you that dont think Anderson could beat Rampage answer me this. What is Rampage's weakeness?? What is Silva's stregnth?? Get back to me when you answer these questions.


THE CLINCH!! Ok what do i win?


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Just because you think Henderson and Franklin are better doesn't mean he doesn't have to face them. I mean I think Hughes is better than Serra and Fitch but GSP needs to beat them.
> 
> Now the fact he's finished his opponents is very impressive but he did finish Sherk (who no one else has finished), Hughes (the greatest WW of all time) x2, and Trigg Also his decision outside of the BJ one were pretty clear cut.


I don't think you can count Trigg and because hughes has a lot of wins in the ufc means he is a great fighter? The only *great* wins i would give hughes is BJ, gsp and maybe sherk. GSP's biggest win is over bj and he is a 155 but still a great win. How could you not consider silva as the number 1 in the world right now? He just finished Dan henderson who only 2 other people have done and I don't think anyone did it is such dominating fashion as anderson.

(This is going by bbjd7's logic)


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## benny (May 28, 2007)

At this point, until silva moves up in weight , i dont believe he will be beaten, hi extreme reach, and long limbs arte just too big of an advantage for a MW to overcome.
at lhw those advantages will be alot less so until then i dont see him losing.
GSP doesnt hit as hard as franklin or hendo and his reach is less, nor is he as strong as either of the two, andy would eat his lunch most likely, GSP is fast though and anything can happen, but i wont bet on it this time


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

yorT said:


> I don't think you can count Trigg and because hughes has a lot of wins in the ufc means he is a great fighter? The only *great* wins i would give hughes is BJ, gsp and maybe sherk. GSP's biggest win is over bj and he is a 155 but still a great win. How could you not consider silva as the number 1 in the world right now? He just finished Dan henderson who only 2 other people have done and I don't think anyone did it is such dominating fashion as anderson.
> 
> (This is going by bbjd7's logic)


Hughes is a great fighter I'm not sure whether that can even be debated the man beat BJ Penn, GSP, Trigg x2, and a bunch of other pretty good fighters.

Trigg is solid and a better win than Lutter.

Dan Henderson is Anderson's best win but Anderson's list still isn't as good as GSP's.

Anderson has - Henderson, FranklinX2, Marquardt, Lutter

GSP has - BJ, Hughes x2, Sherk, Karo, Trigg, Mayhem, and Koscheck


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## AmRiT (Apr 23, 2007)

I think Rich Franklin would destroy him in a rematch, Silva is average



















j/k, he is definately the best Middleweight, top 3 p4p


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Hughes is a great fighter I'm not sure whether that can even be debated the man beat BJ Penn, GSP, Trigg x2, and a bunch of other pretty good fighters.
> 
> Trigg is solid and a better win than Lutter.
> 
> ...


Karo, kos, trigg or mayhem have not beaten any great fighters.

So beating an abu dhabi champ (lutter) at his own game isn't more impressive then beating trigg who hasn't proved himself as a great fighter.

Dominating henderson, in which the current lhw champ rampage wasn't able to do, isn't impressive?

You are only looking at wins and losses and not in the matter the fights were won. But yet you seem to forget that a year ago gsp lost to serra.


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## iSHACKABUKU (Sep 11, 2007)

Anderson is god


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

yorT said:


> Karo, kos, trigg or mayhem have not beaten any great fighters.


Maybe not great, but they each have beaten their share of really solid fighters. I'd also say that Trigg was a better win than Lutter, seeing as Lutter's best win was against Cote while Trigg beat guys like Charuto, Hallman and Iha, not to mention beating guys like Mayhem & Misaki later in his career.

Tapping Lutter was pretty cool, though. Not taking that win away from Silva, as that was a really solid win.

You could make a case for both Silva & GSP being #1.


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## Cochise (Aug 3, 2007)

I doubt it, but Okami?


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## Anudem (Apr 22, 2007)

I think Hendo made a really great point about Silva not fighting bigger opponents than himself (Silva) when regarding if Silva was the greatest p4p fighter. Not saying or making a case for Hendo being the best p4p but he has fought some true heavyweights and people much larger than him. For me to truly call Silva the "greatest" etc. etc. I would like to see how he would handle himself against a fighter in a different weight class. He is the greatest MW at the moment in my opinion though.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Fortunately, GSP and Silva are both humble and respectful men. I'm sure they won't mind sharing the #1 p4p spot, they're gracious enough. I believe each would be honored to be mentioned along side the other.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

Damone said:


> Maybe not great, but they each have beaten their share of really solid fighters. I'd also say that Trigg was a better win than Lutter, seeing as Lutter's best win was against Cote while Trigg beat guys like Charuto, Hallman and Iha, not to mention beating guys like Mayhem & Misaki later in his career.
> 
> Tapping Lutter was pretty cool, though. Not taking that win away from Silva, as that was a really solid win.
> 
> You could make a case for both Silva & GSP being #1.


I agree but bbjd7 says once gsp beats serra, silva is no where close to gsp.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

Flak said:


> Fortunately, GSP and Silva are both humble and respectful men. I'm sure they won't mind sharing the #1 p4p spot, they're gracious enough. I believe each would be honored to be mentioned along side the other.


Yeah silva even said he doesn't think of himself as p4p #1 but considered henderson one of the best.


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

i'll just say that none of his fights in the UFC have gone past the second round, and in every one--yes, hendo included--he's made his opponents look like 5-year old ballet students!


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## lordinfamous (Apr 8, 2007)

Yes...


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

yorT said:


> Karo, kos, trigg or mayhem have not beaten any great fighters.
> 
> So beating an abu dhabi champ (lutter) at his own game isn't more impressive then beating trigg who hasn't proved himself as a great fighter.
> 
> ...


No they haven't but neither have Marquardt, Franklin, and Lutter

If we are going on how guys are winning fights outwrestling a NCAA champion for 3 rounds would go right up there with subbing a ADCC champ.

Finishing Henderson is pretty damn impressive but so is finishing Sherk something that has never been done before or since.

The fact that GSP lost to Serra is what makes it so close now. Because on who they have beaten it's not close and that's not a knock on Anderson because if you compare GSP's wins list to anyone in MMA GSP destroys them.

And yes If GSP beats Serra he takes a big lead because he would've then beaten every contender at WW in the last few years beside Jon Fitch.


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## Wise (Oct 8, 2006)

pt447 said:


> i'll just say that none of his fights in the UFC have gone past the second round, and in every one--yes, hendo included--he's made his opponents look like 5-year old ballet students!


 Not that I didnt think Anderson was crazy good before the fight but hes seriously solidified himself as the best fighter in the world in my eyes. The only people who have beaten and finished Hendo like that were Big and Lil Nog. Hendo even was hanging with Big in the stand up before he got subbed out which took him 3 rounds(Big Nog had 30 pounds on him in that fight, and Dan took it on short notice). 

Anderson is the real deal. I would like to say Im really upset Dan lost, him being my favorite fighter, but I think to see a guy really step up and establish himself so well in the biggest fight of his career was pretty amazing. 

In all honesty right now he is the best. Fedor is right there with him but his inactivity and seemingly lack of ability or desire to make fights against top competition has made him lose the spot in my eyes. 

Anderson has put himself in the top spot in the world. In a sport where "what have you done for me lately" is the most important factor. Silva has leaped ahead of other fighters who you can compare him to(Rampage, GSP, Fedor, Nog). I dont think beating Hendo is so much the super incredidle accomplishment people seem to make it out to be but the fashion in which he did it is.:thumbsup:


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## Korsakov (Nov 24, 2007)

Flak said:


> Fortunately, GSP and Silva are both humble and respectful men. I'm sure they won't mind sharing the #1 p4p spot, they're gracious enough. I believe each would be honored to be mentioned along side the other.


georges is absolutely not #1 P4P. how can you be top P4P when you just got knocked out by an unranked fighter last year? LOL

dana white and the fighters know what's up better than any of us do, and at the press conference they all said silva is definitely P4P best in the world. no one even mentioned georges.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Dan Henderson said GSP or BJ is #1. Hughessaid GSP is #1 right now so do those two legends saying that GSP's #1 count?

GSP did get KO'd he also has beaten almost everyone not just in the UFC WW divison but in MMA's WW divison.


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## akina182 (Feb 13, 2008)

bbjd7 said:


> Dan Henderson said GSP or BJ is #1. Hughessaid GSP is #1 right now so do those two legends saying that GSP's #1 count?
> 
> GSP did get KO'd he also has beaten almost everyone not just in the UFC WW divison but in MMA's WW divison.


I would be reluctant to listen to those 2 because Henderson was about to fight Silva so at the time would not say silva is the p4p before their fight and Hughes would like to say GSP is p4p so that he can say lost to a great fighter. I'm not disagreeing that GSP is p4p best fighter just a bit reluctant to listen to those 2 at the moment.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I'd be reluctant to listen to Dana who would obviously want one of his champions to be #1P4P especially in a divison that he doesn't have many great fighters in so he can discredit other fighters in the rest of MMA's MW divison.


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## Kameleon (Apr 20, 2006)

*Anderson Silva is the best Middleweight in the world. If he wants to be the best p4p, he would have to beat both GSP and BJ Penn. *


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## All_In (Aug 23, 2007)

Damone said:


> You could make a case for both Silva & GSP being #1.


I think that about sums it up.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Kameleon said:


> *Anderson Silva is the best Middleweight in the world. If he wants to be the best p4p, he would have to beat both GSP and BJ Penn. *


i agree i haven't seen many of their fights only about 3 for each of them but the ones i have seen i know that they are the 3 best p4p in the world right now...they should have a triple threat match that would totally be cool!!


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## tomiE (Nov 17, 2007)

I love all three fighters, but Silva right now is the best p4p fighter. 

GSP? He has a good record in the UFC, but some of his fights has gone the distance. Yes he has beaten a lot of good names, but the main thing is that he was unable to defend his title under pressure. Beating Serra will not make him the p4p fighter, defending it numerous times will. In the end, GSP was nnable to defend his title, enough said

BJ Penn? Pretty inconsistant, lost to GSP and Huges. He beat one guy to get a shot at the light-weight title. Until he successfuly defends his title like Silva, Penn is nowhere close.

Silva? Destroyed the middle-weight division. None of them has gone to the 3rd round. Was able to defend his title, with spectacular finishes.

Maybe Silva doesn't have the popularity like Penn and GSP has, but for the moment, Silva is the best p4p fighter.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

GSP has beaten tougher competition than Silva has. I mean, running through Koscheck, Karo, Hughes, Sherk, Trigg, Mayhem, etc. Anderson is obviously a very talented guy but he's still top 3 p4p for me, but #1 in the world for MW's for sure.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Korsakov said:


> georges is absolutely not #1 P4P. how can you be top P4P when you just got knocked out by an unranked fighter last year? LOL


Fair point.

If GSP comes back and absolutely destroys Serra though i think it would erase said loss.

Serra isn't a better fighter, he just happened to be the better fighter that night.....and i love Serra (and kinda hope he submits Georges  )


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## donttouchthat (Dec 31, 2006)

tomiE said:


> BJ Penn? Pretty inconsistant, lost to GSP and Huges. He beat one guy to get a shot at the light-weight title. Until he successfuly defends his title like Silva, Penn is nowhere close.


You have take into consideration that this was while he was fighting outside of his natural weight class. 

Anderson cannot make the same claim, as he has not fought at a heavier weight class or held a title at a different weight class.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

> Anderson cannot make the same claim, as he has not fought at a heavier weight class or held a title at a different weight class.


He is, however, undefeated in the UFC, beating great fighters with ease. I'd put him way above Penn.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Flak said:


> Serra isn't a better fighter, he just happened to be the better fighter that night.....and i love Serra (and kinda hope he submits Georges  )


I'm cheering for Serra to. Not that I don't like Georges I just kinda want all the GSP fans to shut up about how it was a fluke. Since Serra KO'd him and he didn't cheat or anything.


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## Wise (Oct 8, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> I'm cheering for Serra to. Not that I don't like Georges I just kinda want all the GSP fans to shut up about how it was a fluke. Since Serra KO'd him and he didn't cheat or anything.


I still dont get how people dont realize he was winning in the stand up before that too. Its not like he was getting creamed and then he threw out one lucky punch.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Because they don't want to realize it. People want to think GSP is unbeatable which he isn't. However everytime I say that he makes me look very stupid like before the Koscheck and the Hughes fights.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> GSP has beaten tougher competition than Silva has. I mean, running through Koscheck, Karo, Hughes, Sherk, Trigg, Mayhem, etc. Anderson is obviously a very talented guy but he's still top 3 p4p for me, but #1 in the world for MW's for sure.


I just don't see how you could put kos, karo, trigg or mayhem on the list of big wins. None of those guys have proven themselves yet.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

They have proven themselves about as much as Marquardt, Franklin, and Lutter. In fact they all have better wins than Lutter.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

yorT said:


> I just don't see how you could put kos, karo, trigg or mayhem on the list of big wins. None of those guys have proven themselves yet.


But at one point or another, they were all top 10. Karo is still top 10 and Koscheck is top 5. And trigg and Mayhem are also top 10 middleweights last I checked.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

GMW said:


> But at one point or another, they were all top 10. Karo is still top 10 and Koscheck is top 5. And trigg and Mayhem are also top 10 middleweights last I checked.


Well anderson has beaten all top 5 mw besides lutter and he did it without leaving the second round.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

yorT said:


> Well anderson has beaten all top 5 mw besides lutter and he did it without leaving the second round.


At the time's of their fight Nate marquardt wasn't top five, he was top 10 however. I think seven.
Only Henderson and, in most cases, Rich franklin were top 5. 
However, I wouldn't argue his wins are extremely impressive, just that GSP's win are as impressive.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

GMW said:


> At the time's of their fight Nate marquardt wasn't top five, he was top 10 however. I think seven.
> Only Henderson and, in most cases, Rich franklin were top 5.
> However, I wouldn't argue his wins are extremely impressive, just that GSP's win are as impressive.


I am pretty sure nate was top 5 right before the fight then dropped right after the fight. Dan henderson was even ranked top 10 in the lhw division and anderson make him look like a lower tier fighter. 

I don't feel hughes is an impressive win at this stage in his career. The bj win however is the most impressive win on his resume but again bj and sherk are natural lw.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

yorT said:


> I am pretty sure nate was top 5 right before the fight then dropped right after the fight. *Dan henderson was even ranked top 10* in the lhw division and anderson make him look like a lower tier fighter.
> 
> I don't feel hughes is an impressive win at this stage in his career. The bj win however is the most impressive win on his resume but again bj and sherk are natural lw.


actually he was ranked in the top 3 not too long ago


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> actually he was ranked in the top 3 not too long ago


Even better silva demolished someone ranked top 3 in two different weight classes.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

yorT said:


> I am pretty sure nate was top 5 right before the fight then dropped right after the fight. Dan henderson was even ranked top 10 in the lhw division and anderson make him look like a lower tier fighter.
> 
> I don't feel hughes is an impressive win at this stage in his career. The bj win however is the most impressive win on his resume but again bj and sherk are natural lw.


I'm pretty sure Nate wasn't top 5, but that isn't really relevant. Nothing about Silva's opponents is relevant to what I said. I was just defending GSP's wins. 

Anderson Silva hardly "demonlished" Hendo imo. He beat him badly in the 2nd round after getting completely controlled in the first. 

Bj is a natural light weight but so? He's still extremely competitive at WW, and is Sherk even a natural LW? Doesn't he walk at the same weight as GSP, around 185.

I still think hughes is an impressive win. Outside of GSP, who is there who could regularly beat him? Maybe Koscheck? Dennis Hallman?


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## Wise (Oct 8, 2006)

GSP sat on a gassed BJ for 2 rounds after getting mauled in the stand up. He sat on Karo and Kos for 3 rounds. Lost to Serra. Sherk had no place fighting big tall WW like GSP and it showed in their fight. 

The only 2 top WW who GSP really worked over was Hughes and Trigg. Other then that his wins though impressive in name havnt really been all that impressive in the outcome.


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## Shamrock-Ortiz (Sep 22, 2006)

towwffc said:


> "ON PAPER" Silva can definitely be considered the best now. Nobody else has been as successful and as dominating as him. Through all of his great victories I never even see him with a scratch in the end which is amazing in mma. So "ON PAPER" he is definitely the best.


Fedor Emelianenko is more successful and dominating than Silva.

I don't know if your talking about over all weight classes or just Middlewight here.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

Wise said:


> GSP sat on a gassed BJ for 2 rounds after getting mauled in the stand up. He sat on Karo and Kos for 3 rounds. Lost to Serra. Sherk had no place fighting big tall WW like GSP and it showed in their fight.
> 
> The only 2 top WW who GSP really worked over was Hughes and Trigg. Other then that his wins though impressive in name havnt really been all that impressive in the outcome.


BJ penn I won't comment on, everyone has their own opinion on that fight.

Actually, I'm really just going to mention Koscheck but how could you say he didn't work him over? Koscheck is an amazing wrestler so what'd GSP do? He completely controlled Koscheck and GnP'd. Koscheck is really difficult to finish but in this case I think what he did "could" be considered more dominating; eliminating his opponents main way to win.

Sherk may of had no place, but he is still a tough guy and beating him doesn't mean nothing like some people treat it.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Sherk beat bunch of WW's so I'm not sure why GSP being 5'11 is such an advantage especially since he beat him using his wrestling and GnP.

Also if we are talking about rankings when the fights happened then the Trigg win becomes even better since he was a top 5 WW. The BJ win is better since he was considered the best fighter in the world when they fought. 

I'm not sure why Hughes is washed up when he has lost to no one but GSP in long time.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Wise said:


> GSP sat on a gassed BJ for 2 rounds after getting mauled in the stand up. He sat on Karo and Kos for 3 rounds. Lost to Serra. Sherk had no place fighting big tall WW like GSP and it showed in their fight.
> 
> The only 2 top WW who GSP really worked over was Hughes and Trigg. Other then that his wins though impressive in name havnt really been all that impressive in the outcome.


Sorry man, but GSP wasn't getting 'mauled' standing. He was poked in the eye, and then he was clipped with an uppercut, it looked much worse than it was. GSP out worked and outmuscled BJ, to win the fight.



GMW said:


> Sherk may of had no place, but he is still a tough guy and beating him doesn't mean nothing like some people treat it.


No kidding, GSP is the first guy to ever finish Sean Sherk.


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## GKY (Jun 3, 2007)

I think people have to realize Anderson is as good as it gets for the UFC middleweight division. He literally can't prove himself anymore then he already has, because he's tooled everyone he has faught in the UFC, and there are no more real contenders in the UFC for him to fight. Basically every top middleweight people say Anderson hasn't faught, he can't fight because of company boundries.

The only exception is really Philo, who won't fight Silva to begin with because he refuses. So I would say Silva is as good as it gets.


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## Wise (Oct 8, 2006)

Did you watch the Sherk fight? I almost thought GSP was gonna stick his hand on Sherk's forehead and watch Sherk flail away wildly like an older brother does to his little brother. A 5 ft 11" guy fighting a 5 ft 6 " guy is a huge reach advantage.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Yes but he won the fight with GnP and a takedown so I'm not sure why the reach matter so much?


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## Wise (Oct 8, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> Yes but he won the fight with GnP and a takedown so I'm not sure why the reach matter so much?


Because Sherk maybe got worked over in the stand up, setting up said take down and GnP?


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Yes but it wasn't like Sherk was out on his feet and GSP took him down. Sherk didn't get GSP to the ground (It's been a while since I've seen the fight so I can't remember if he shot in on him or not) But it's not like he didn't have a chance. GSP was just better than Sherk and it's not like Anderson isn't a big MW.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

Henderson was ranked top 3 in two weight classes and in the p4p list. He also took the current ufc lhw champ 5 rounds winning two of them. Anderson beat him in the second round in superior fashion. It doesn't get better than that imo.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Beating the #1 WW who had been #1 for years and then beating him again when he was #2 or 3 in a little more than a year in the 2nd round both times I think is better than that.


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## iSHACKABUKU (Sep 11, 2007)

absolutly the best


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Beating the #1 WW who had been #1 for years and then beating him again when he was #2 or 3 in a little more than a year in the 2nd round both times I think is better than that.


Beating hughes is a better win than beating henderson?? Are you serious, hughes is a one dimensional wrestler with horrible striking. Henderson had two belts at the same time and beat ranked heavy weights, lhws and mws.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

yorT said:


> Beating hughes is a better win than beating henderson?? Are you serious, hughes is a one dimensional wrestler with horrible striking. Henderson had two belts at the same time and beat ranked heavy weights, lhws and mws.


Hughes is far frm a one dimensional wrestler. He has one of the best submission games in MMA. And while his striking isn't good it's far from horrible.

Also in the 2nd fight He took Hughes down and beat him in his world.

Henderson is a very overrated fighter. I like him a lot but he has never been consistant especially at 185.


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## iSHACKABUKU (Sep 11, 2007)

Henderson was slightly over rated, still a great fighter. Im so happy Anderson put him away in 2 though, just shows how great he is


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I agree he is a great fighter but I wouldn't say he is a better win than Hughes. And he's defiantly not a better win than Hughes when GSP beat him the first time.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> I agree he is a great fighter but I wouldn't say he is a better win than Hughes. And he's defiantly not a better win than Hughes when GSP beat him the first time.


Henderson has accomplished more than hughes. Hughes only great wins are against bj, which he lost the first time, and gsp the first time. 

Please explain why hughes is a better win than henderson.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Hughes is far frm a one dimensional wrestler. He has one of the best submission games in MMA. And while his striking isn't good it's far from horrible.
> 
> Also in the 2nd fight He took Hughes down and beat him in his world.
> 
> Henderson is a very overrated fighter. I like him a lot but he has never been consistant especially at 185.


And everyone anderson has beat in the ufc he has beat them at their strength.

Leben-his chin was done in 49 sec

Franklin-Done in first round

Lutter-got submitted in the second

Nate-Only got one take down because of a flying knee then he got taken down because he had a hold of one of silva's legs.

Franklin-Got out struck with many different combinations of strikes.

Henderson-Got one takedown in the first, his heavy hands didn't phase silva, then had silva in a greco clinch with double under hooks against the cage and was unable to take him down. Then was submitted in the second round that no one else was able to do except for the Nogs.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Henderson has actually beaten - Renzo, Bustamante, Misaki, Belfort, and Wanderlei

He has wins over - Newton, Rodrigo Nogueira, Chonan, Bustamante, and Kondo

And He's lost to - Wanderlei (over 6 years ago), Arona, Rodrigo Nogueira, Rogerio Nogueira, Misaki, Rampage, and Anderson

Hughes has beaten - Gono, Doerkson, Newton, Sakurai, Sherk, Trigg x2, Riggs, Charuto, GSP, BJ, and Lytle

He's got wins over - Newton

And he's lost to - Hallman x2 (over 6 years ago), Pele (over 6 years ago), BJ and GSP


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

yorT said:


> And everyone anderson has beat in the ufc he has beat them at their strength.
> 
> Leben-his chin was done in 49 sec
> 
> ...


None of them are as dominant in the places they are skilled at as Hughes except Dan who didn't get beaten at his strength he didn't get out wrestled.


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## hollando (Apr 11, 2007)

yorT said:


> And everyone anderson has beat in the ufc he has beat them at their strength.
> 
> Leben-his chin was done in 49 sec
> 
> ...


first thing first

how the hell is this thread still alive?/

second couldnt agree more yort

and dosnt it seem fitting that the person silva holds a black belt under is someone who submitted henderson


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> None of them are as dominant in the places they are skilled at as Hughes except Dan who didn't get beaten at his strength he didn't get out wrestled.


So lutter is just a par bjj black belt and winning the adcc means nothing?

Hendo known for heavy hands and great greco clinch in which none of those affected silva one bit. Silva ate hendo's punches for lunch and didn't allow his greco clinch take him down. Then his diamond chin was rock, according to dan. I will also through in the Olympics for gerco roman wrestling.:dunno:

Also silva didn't out wrestling correct, but hendo wasn't able to do anything on top. Silva was controlling him from the bottom.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Lutter's great at BJJ but his MMA ground game isn't as good as Hughes. When you add punching and wrestling Hughes is better on the ground in MMA than Lutter.

And If he out wrestled Henderson that would be one thing but he didn't so no he didn't beat Henderson at his own game. He beat Henderson and that's damn impressive but he didn't beat Hendo at his game that would be if he took Henderson down.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

Anderson did take henderson down, how do you think the fight ended on the ground?


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

yorT said:


> Anderson did take henderson down, how do you think the fight ended on the ground?


It wasn't by out wrestling though, didn't he daze him before with strikes?

And come on, did you really just diminish what Matt hughes has done in MMA like that...?


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

GMW said:


> It wasn't by out wrestling though, didn't he daze him before with strikes?
> 
> And come on, did you really just diminish what Matt hughes has done in MMA like that...?


I am just trying to figure out how beating hughes is better than beating henderson.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

yorT said:


> I am just trying to figure out how beating hughes is better than beating henderson.


Well, you have the most dominant welterweight of all time vs Dan Henderson. If Matt Hughes isnt ahead of Dan henderson then there is no way for GSP to get ahead, or anyone in the WW division.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

GMW said:


> Well, you have the most dominant welterweight of all time vs Dan Henderson. If Matt Hughes isnt ahead of Dan henderson then there is no way for GSP to get ahead, or anyone in the WW division.


How is hughes ahead of henderson?


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

yorT said:


> How is hughes ahead of henderson?


Yeah, i guess I didn't really answer the question.

Um, Well, by comparing wins, matt hughes has at the time of the win, more top 10 wins. Dan Henderson is a less skilled fighter, who gets a lot of gift wins.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

GMW said:


> Yeah, i guess I didn't really answer the question.
> 
> Um, Well, by comparing wins, matt hughes has at the time of the win, more top 10 wins. Dan Henderson is a less skilled fighter, who gets a lot of gift wins.


The only top ten fighters hughes beat that i can think of right now is bj, gsp and sherk. How does this compare to dan's wins or even silva's wins?


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## All_In (Aug 23, 2007)

It's kind of strange that Matt's terrible attitude and recent losses seem to have caused quite a few cases of amnesia. Anyone else remember his career of dominance?


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

yorT said:


> The only top ten fighters hughes beat that i can think of right now is bj, gsp and sherk. How does this compare to dan's wins or even silva's wins?


Carlos Newton
Frank trigg
Hayato Sakurai
etc, are all top 10 or extremely tough opponents.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

GMW said:


> Carlos Newton
> Frank trigg
> Hayato Sakurai
> etc, are all top 10 or extremely tough opponents.


Anderson was the first to best sakurai and then beat newton a year after hughes did. But this were years ago.

Silva got the shooto belt from sakurai and still holds it to this day.


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## Korsakov (Nov 24, 2007)

anyone who says hughes is a more skilled fighter than dan henderson is out of their minds. henderson would own hughes 9/10 times.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Korsakov said:


> anyone who says hughes is a more skilled fighter than dan henderson is out of their minds. henderson would own hughes 9/10 times.


Ugh, please not another fraction flaunting fool.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

yorT said:


> Anderson was the first to best sakurai and then beat newton a year after hughes did. But this were years ago.
> 
> Silva got the shooto belt from sakurai and still holds it to this day.


Silva is much bigger than Sakurai and we aren't comparing Anderson to Hughes we are comparing Hughes to Henderson.

Also Anderson didn't take Henderson down. He rocked him and Henderson pulled guard.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Silva is much bigger than Sakurai and we aren't comparing Anderson to Hughes we are comparing Hughes to Henderson.


Silva and Sakurai weight the same for that fight what are you talking about. You are going back on your own logic. GSP is much bigger than bj and sherk.



bbjd7 said:


> Also Anderson didn't take Henderson down. He rocked him and Henderson pulled guard.


What about the second time? Because of the actions of Anderson Silva he was able to take Dan Henderson to the mat not only once but twice.

Also silva did better in top control than henderson did. Silva was in henderson's half gaurd then was able to take his back and submit him. Henderson had side control then got put in silva's gaurd. So i would say silva wrestled better than henderson.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Took him down he Rocked him Henderson did a terrible shot and stayed on the ground till Anderson fell on top of him tha's not wrestling.

The stuff you mentioned for the most part happened because Henderson was rocked not because Anderson outwrestled him because Anderson in no way outwrestled Dan. He whipped Dan's ass but didn't outwrestle him.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> He whipped Dan's ass but didn't outwrestle him.


I'll agree with that.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Took him down he Rocked him Henderson did a terrible shot and stayed on the ground till Anderson fell on top of him tha's not wrestling.
> 
> The stuff you mentioned for the most part happened because Henderson was rocked not because Anderson outwrestled him because Anderson in no way outwrestled Dan. He whipped Dan's ass but didn't outwrestle him.


So being able to do more in top control than henderson did isn't beating him in wrestling?


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

No since the time you are refering to Henderson was already rocked the first time Anderson got Henderson down when Henderson wasn't in that bad of shape Henderson stood back up.

Also the ground game in MMA is more Jiu Jitsu than Wrestling since Wrestlers don't put their shoulders on the mat so for a BJJ guy to own a wrestler when teh wrestler is on his back isn't out wrestling him. Especially when Henderson did a damn good job of controlling Anderson in the first round.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

GMW said:


> Yeah, i guess I didn't really answer the question.
> 
> Um, Well, by comparing wins, matt hughes has at the time of the win, more top 10 wins. Dan Henderson is a less skilled fighter, who gets a lot of gift wins.


Henderson is less skilled than Hughes? No way


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> No since the time you are refering to Henderson was already rocked the *first time Anderson got Henderson down* when Henderson wasn't in that bad of shape Henderson stood back up.
> 
> Also the ground game in MMA is more Jiu Jitsu than Wrestling since Wrestlers don't put their shoulders on the mat so for a BJJ guy to own a wrestler when teh wrestler is on his back isn't out wrestling him. Especially when Henderson did a damn good job of controlling Anderson in the first round.


You just said anderson got hendo down.:dunno:

Also how did henderson control anderson in the first round? By laying on top of him? It was silva's choice whether or not to change positions not henderson's and when he decided to change position he was able to get henderson in full guard with the body lock. So i would say anderson controlled henderson from the bottom.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> Henderson is less skilled than Hughes? No way


In MMA, I think he probably is, but I wouldn't be entirely sure of that.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

GMW said:


> In MMA, I think he probably is, but I wouldn't be entirely sure of that.


How? He has worse striking, less power, and a weaker chin.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> How? He has worse striking, less power, and a weaker chin.


I don't consider chin part of skill, it's like how I'd say CC is a more skilled fighter then Hunt.

He has worse striking in all respects but Hendo's isn't amazing in my opinion.

But he has a better ground game which overall edges him above.

I'd be interested to read what Bbjd7 has to say about it.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

yorT said:


> You just said anderson got hendo down.:dunno:
> 
> Also how did henderson control anderson in the first round? By laying on top of him? It was silva's choice whether or not to change positions not henderson's and when he decided to change position he was able to get henderson in full guard with the body lock. So i would say anderson controlled henderson from the bottom.


Getting someone down isn't a takedown he punched him and Henderson pulled guard.

Henderson kept Anderson on his back that's basically what wrestling is.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

GMW said:


> I don't consider chin part of skill, it's like how I'd say CC is a more skilled fighter then Hunt.
> 
> He has worse striking in all respects but Hendo's isn't amazing in my opinion.
> 
> ...


Hughes has better MMA takedowns and a much better ground game than Henderson. Striking wise Henderson is much better but Hughes is a better MMA fighter.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

How does Hughes have a better ground game or takedowns? I disagree with both of those statements. Have you seen Rodrigo Hendo 2?


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Also the ground game in MMA is more Jiu Jitsu than Wrestling since Wrestlers don't put their shoulders on the mat so for a BJJ guy to own a wrestler when teh wrestler is on his back isn't out wrestling him.





bbjd7 said:


> Henderson kept Anderson on his back that's basically what wrestling is.


You just totally contradicted yourself. How can you say what anderson did is bjj but what hendo did was wrestling.:dunno:

You just make any point that goes against anderson.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Because Wrestling is less about advancing position and more about control. While BJJ is more about advancing position and submission.

In all honesty everything in MMA on the ground is grappling and it's hard to pick out what wrestling and what BJJ however watching that fight for the third time today it's clear to me that Anderson didn't out wrestle Henderson. I'm not sure how that's anti Anderson but I guess in your mind it is.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> How does Hughes have a better ground game or takedowns? I disagree with both of those statements. Have you seen Rodrigo Hendo 2?


Hughes could've armbarred Royce Gracie. Hughes has armbarred GSP. Hughes hs one of the best MMA ground games. His submissions are better than Henderson and his GnP is better than Hendersons.

Henderson takedowns actually might be better but he doesn't use them as often as Hughes does. Hughes has takendown a number of guys with fantastic TDD while Henderson really hasn't.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Because Wrestling is less about advancing position and more about control. While BJJ is more about advancing position and submission.
> 
> In all honesty everything in MMA on the ground is grappling and it's hard to pick out what wrestling and what BJJ however watching that fight for the third time today it's clear to me that Anderson didn't out wrestle Henderson. I'm not sure how that's anti Anderson but I guess in your mind it is.


Did you read what you said?



bbjd7 said:


> ...BJJ guy to own a wrestler when teh wrestler is on his back isn't out wrestling him.





bbjd7 said:


> Henderson kept Anderson on his back that's basically what wrestling is.


You just said because anderson had silva on his back that is just bjj, but keeping anderson on his back in basically wrestling?:dunno:

Well according to your logic anderson out grappled henderson.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> Because Wrestling is less about advancing position and more about control. While BJJ is more about advancing position and submission.
> 
> In all honesty everything in MMA on the ground is grappling and it's hard to pick out what wrestling and what BJJ however watching that fight for the third time today it's clear to me that Anderson didn't out wrestle Henderson. I'm not sure how that's anti Anderson but I guess in your mind it is.


Anderson outwrestled Henderson (not throughout the fight) when Henderson tried to take him down in the second, as he reversed Dan's clinch and put him on his own back. He may not have outwrestled him throughout the entirety of the match, but he did outwrestle him in that instance and it was crucial to his victory.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I would agree with that Fedor>All stopping that Takedown attempt was key but to say Anderson beat Henderson at his own game isn't true. If Anderson took Henderson down and then Submitted him that would be one thing.

Anderson's win was very impressive but he didn't beat Henderson at his own game like yort claimed.

And yes Yort he outgrappled Henderson.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Hughes could've armbarred Royce Gracie. Hughes has armbarred GSP. Hughes hs one of the best MMA ground games. His submissions are better than Henderson and his GnP is better than Hendersons.
> 
> Henderson takedowns actually might be better but he doesn't use them as often as Hughes does. Hughes has takendown a number of guys with fantastic TDD while Henderson really hasn't.


Because you say it doesn't mean it is true. Anyone can say "Should of, Could of, Would of" come on dude.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

He had him in the armbar and let him go. He let him go because Royce wasn't going to tap and Hughes saw no reason to break the man's arm.


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> I would agree with that Fedor>All stopping that Takedown attempt was key but to say Anderson beat Henderson at his own game isn't true. If Anderson took Henderson down and then Submitted him that would be one thing.
> 
> Anderson's win was very impressive but he didn't beat Henderson at his own game like yort claimed.
> 
> And yes Yort he outgrappled Henderson.


Anderson did more in top control than henderson was able to do, you can deny that.


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## jesse danger (Oct 15, 2006)

Fedor = 0 losses 

Anderson = 4 losses

you cant say he is the best fighter pound for pound but he is # 2


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> He had him in the armbar and let him go. He let him go because Royce wasn't going to tap and Hughes saw no reason to break the man's arm.


Ok i remember that now.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

yorT said:


> Anderson did more in top control than henderson was able to do, you can deny that.


Yes he was better in top control. But Henderson was also rocked when he was on his back.

I don't think it's fair to say that Anderson beat Henderson at Henderson's game. He beat him badly and it was very impressive but he didn't out wrestle Henderson.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

jesse danger said:


> Fedor = 0 losses
> 
> Anderson = 4 losses
> 
> you cant say he is the best fighter pound for pound but he is # 2


Fedor's last solid win was against Mark Hunt, over a year ago. Since then, Silva has tapped Lutter and smoked Lutter, Marquardt, Franklin & Henderson.

Silva is way above Fedor.


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## iSHACKABUKU (Sep 11, 2007)

> Fedor's last solid win was against Mark Hunt, over a year ago. Since then, Silva has tapped Lutter and smoked Lutter, Marquardt, Franklin & Henderson.
> 
> Silva is way above Fedor.


AMEN TO THIS!


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Yes he was better in top control. But Henderson was also rocked when he was on his back.
> 
> I don't think it's fair to say that Anderson beat Henderson at Henderson's game. He beat him badly and it was very impressive but he didn't out wrestle Henderson.


ok fine.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Hughes could've armbarred Royce Gracie. Hughes has armbarred GSP. Hughes hs one of the best MMA ground games. His submissions are better than Henderson and his GnP is better than Hendersons.
> 
> Henderson takedowns actually might be better but he doesn't use them as often as Hughes does. Hughes has takendown a number of guys with fantastic TDD while Henderson really hasn't.


Hughes arm-barred GSP in his 3rd fight in the UFC.. and everyone knows that was not the same GSP that he faced the 2nd and 3rd time. Also, Royce Gracie is old, overrated, and well past his prime, so to me that doesn't mean much. Hendo beating Big Nog and also escaping numerous submission attempts from him and also defeating many talented submission artists means more to me than Hughes submitting a few guys. I agree Hughes is a great grappler but Henderson is a better overall MMA fighter. Also Hughes has relied on strength and size for a lot of his victories where Dan has always been the small one who relies on heart and technique


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Henderson has also been beaten on the ground by Ninja Rua. So I'm not sure how you can compare their ground games.

I would say Henderson is a more well rounded fighter but If I was ranking the greatest fighters of all time Hughes would be way ahead of Henderson.


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## ZeroPRIDE (Apr 12, 2006)

yes you could say he is the best. Next up GSP,


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