# UFC discussion from the past 4



## name goes here

Probably not - but, if his arm hadn't been up and blocked Gonzaga's kick, would Gonzaga had won instead?:confused02: I mean if the kick broke his arm, it would have ko'd him if his arm hadn't been there I think.


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## Chrisl972

name goes here said:


> Probably not - but, if his arm hadn't been up and blocked Gonzaga's kick, would Gonzaga had won instead?:confused02: I mean if the kick broke his arm, it would have ko'd him if his arm hadn't been there I think.


Every fight has a shot that would have KOed the other guy if it had connected. It doesn't make them lucky, it makes them trained.


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## sunley213

Randy blocked the shot that does not make him lucky, thats just good stand-up skills


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## Davisty69

Short answer - No

Long answer - Noooooooo


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## KaBoom1

what about the kick that was clean......
but maybe he was lucky, because he otherwise wouldn't have been able to pick GG up in the first place


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## GMW

name goes here said:


> Probably not - but, if his arm hadn't been up and blocked Gonzaga's kick, would Gonzaga had won instead?:confused02: I mean if the kick broke his arm, it would have ko'd him if his arm hadn't been there I think.


True, but fedor would of lost to cro cop if he didn't dodge every left high kick... it's just part of the game.


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## headxsmasher

Please stop with these "what if" threads.


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## Beeg

What if there were no more "what if" threads? Good question...


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## headxsmasher

hahaha


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## NoGood

If u didnt notice randy did take a one of GG kicks to the head which rocked him but he recovered quick.

Randy was the better fighter that night saying it was luck is a insult.


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## PanKrato

Davisty69 said:


> Short answer - No
> 
> Long answer - Noooooooo


lol.
Agreed


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## ajitator

what if gonzaga didn't grab the fence during that take down?

what if randy didn't do the take down?

what if crocop dodged gonzaga's kick?

what if gonzaga got kicked in the head by crocop instead of catching it?

what if jackson didn't connect with that right overhand to lidell?

what if pride didn't go out of business?

what if you never found out about this forum?

what if your mom didn't give birth to you?

what if the big bang didn't happen?

what if, you seriously just stfu?


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## natryl21

ajitator said:


> what if gonzaga didn't grab the fence during that take down?
> 
> what if randy didn't do the take down?
> 
> what if crocop dodged gonzaga's kick?
> 
> what if gonzaga got kicked in the head by crocop instead of catching it?
> 
> what if jackson didn't connect with that right overhand to lidell?
> 
> what if pride didn't go out of business?
> 
> what if you never found out about this forum?
> 
> what if your mom didn't give birth to you?
> 
> what if the big bang didn't happen?
> 
> what if, you seriously just stfu?



hahahaha... now that was entertaining!:laugh:


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## Gudster

What if Gonzaga had Randy against the fence? What if randy was rocked and one more punch or kick was going to knock him out?! What if at that moment, as Gonzaga reaches back to fire that finishing overhand right, the Indiana Jones theme tune started playing through the PA? Then what if Cro Cop swung down on a rope ninja style and landed behind Gonzaga? What if Gonzaga turned around, surprised and said "Oh my ******* god"! What if Cro cop then landed his left head kick, BOOM! Knocking Gonzaga the **** out? What if he then leans over Gonzaga, and says "Thats how you do it". What if Cro Cop then looks at Randy, gives him the thumbs up and winks? What if Randy then returns the Thumbs up/Wink? What if Cro cop got his jetpack on and blasted out of Stadium with Randy saluteing below? What if Herb Dean then raises Randys hand as the winner via Cro Cop ninja surprise attack?

WHAT IF?


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## headxsmasher

ajitator said:


> what if gonzaga didn't grab the fence during that take down?
> 
> what if randy didn't do the take down?
> 
> what if crocop dodged gonzaga's kick?
> 
> what if gonzaga got kicked in the head by crocop instead of catching it?
> 
> what if jackson didn't connect with that right overhand to lidell?
> 
> what if pride didn't go out of business?
> 
> what if you never found out about this forum?
> 
> what if your mom didn't give birth to you?
> 
> what if the big bang didn't happen?
> 
> what if, you seriously just stfu?


hahaha


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## HexRei

name goes here said:


> Probably not - but, if his arm hadn't been up and blocked Gonzaga's kick, would Gonzaga had won instead?:confused02: I mean if the kick broke his arm, it would have ko'd him if his arm hadn't been there I think.


There is an argument to be made that specific "lucky" breaks in each fight were the linchpin. But the simple fact is that Randy makes his own luck. He is just that damn good.


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## PanKrato

HexRei said:


> There is an argument to be made that specific "lucky" breaks in each fight were the linchpin. But the simple fact is that Randy makes his own luck. He is just that damn good.


agreed. lol


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## Brydon

I wouldnt be surprised if Randy took the kick and survived. He can take a serious beating before going down.


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## jehu pitchfork

Beeg said:


> What if there were no more "what if" threads? Good question...


that's the answer. personally, i think this is a dumb question. coutrue ran a clinic on offense AND defense. he was the better fighter, period.


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## esv

no way was he lucky, he is just very good.


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## A-5best

How can you possibly think that was luck? Randy dominated every part of that fight and utterly destroyed GG.


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## kamikaze145

ajitator said:


> what if gonzaga didn't grab the fence during that take down?
> 
> what if randy didn't do the take down?
> 
> what if crocop dodged gonzaga's kick?
> 
> what if gonzaga got kicked in the head by crocop instead of catching it?
> 
> what if jackson didn't connect with that right overhand to lidell?
> 
> what if pride didn't go out of business?
> 
> what if you never found out about this forum?
> 
> what if your mom didn't give birth to you?
> 
> what if the big bang didn't happen?
> 
> what if, you seriously just stfu?


hahaha good one. This is a really stupid thread.


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## royalking87

but it didnt conect and randy won so lets keep it moving


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## tecnotut

kamikaze145 said:


> hahaha good one. This is a really stupid thread.


Very stupid.


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## Stapler

ajitator said:


> what if gonzaga didn't grab the fence during that take down?
> 
> what if randy didn't do the take down?
> 
> what if crocop dodged gonzaga's kick?
> 
> what if gonzaga got kicked in the head by crocop instead of catching it?
> 
> what if jackson didn't connect with that right overhand to lidell?
> 
> what if pride didn't go out of business?
> 
> what if you never found out about this forum?
> 
> what if your mom didn't give birth to you?
> 
> what if the big bang didn't happen?
> 
> what if, you seriously just stfu?


Randy would have finished him earlier.

Gonzaga would have gotten more fatigued and Randy would finish him standing.

Gonzaga would have won some other way, Cro Cop didn't show up to fight that night.

I wasn't aware Cro Cop threw a high kick at Gonzaga in their fight. Might have missed it...

Liddell would have won 

UFCs light heavyweight division wouldn't be looking so stacked.

He probably would find another forum to make a what if thread about.

Then I wouldn't get the chance to make this post.

The big bang didn't happen.

The world would be better off.

Wanted to answer all of your what ifs. :thumb02:


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## coldcall420

*Travis Lutter*

Can anyone tell me what happened to Travis lutter......i believe healthy he is the one that can beat anderson silva, he gave him fits!!!!!! And he never tapped from the triangle...:dunno:


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## hollando

well he thinks he did

"I tapped because of the choke. I was good for a long time, but then I started to go out. With the strikes, I was on my way out and he hit me with strikes so I might have moved my body positioning a little because of them. But I tapped because of the choke. I was going to sleep. I’m not beat up at all"

he didnt make weight.....and forced the match to become a three round......non title....this probably really pissed off white.....i still believe he desearves another shot in the ufc tho 

Travis Lutter: â€˜I tapped because of the chokeâ€™ at UFC blog for UFC news, results, videos, rumors, fights, pics and tickets


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## coldcall420

Good look but let me ask you this.......dont you think that if travis lutter was healthy and not weak from cutting weight wrong he could have won the fight????


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## Pokkie

I believe its been said a number of times already that although Travis was quite possibly fatigued, Silva was suffering from a double knee surgery that he had only a few weeks prior.


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## hollando

they were both injured/fatigued going into this fight

if a fighter ever goes into a fight at 100 percent....he isnt trainning hard a enough for it....

do i think that lutter had a chance to win in the first round...yes.....but the fact still remains silva took him out and is still undefeated in the ufc.....and yes one day that will change to until then tho....i say 
Warsilva!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## coldcall420

I think travis in good condition can beat anderson...although andersons game is tight. with that said i still wanna see them fight again all im sayin is healthy i think he has a good shot.....only a couple others come to mind in terms of beating silva.


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## yorT

You know every just about every fighter dehydrates themselves to cut weight and saying there is an exception for lutter is rediculous. He had plenty of time to get re hydrated before the fight, other wise the athletic commission would not allow someone in that state to be out there fighting. Lutter lost at his own game!


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## coldcall420

hollando has a link if you read it you get the impression that the guys not 100% into fighting. who knows or cares why he def fucked up by not cutting right but i think if he were healthy he could win.


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## Curly

Travis has great take downs and he did give Anderson a lot of trouble. This is why I would like to see Anderson fight Dan Henderson or even Matt Lindland, if he could still get down to 85. I think a well schooled wrestler with jitsu background might have the best chance against this guy. The strikers sure as hell can't mix with him.


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## AxleZTTic

yorT said:


> You know every just about every fighter dehydrates themselves to cut weight and saying there is an exception for lutter is rediculous. He had plenty of time to get re hydrated before the fight, other wise the athletic commission would not allow someone in that state to be out there fighting. Lutter lost at his own game!


so what if you needed to cut 15 lbs but only had 13 lbs of water that you could sweat off? that's what happened to lutter. he was actually just too heavy period. he said he had been in the sauna for hours before weighing in and he wasnt sweating at all, it was all gone. 
the percentage of water is different for every fighter so to say it was a simple mistake is a little ill-informed. next time he will need to keep a better eye on his nutrition and his body fat percentage, and make adjustments accordingly.


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## Damone

Lutter's a solid fighter, who happens to be lazy as hell when it comes to MMA. I like the guy, but becoming near-zombie levels of bad, is your own fault.


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## jobbernowl

I agree. Dana was pissed he didn't make weight. I think we will see him again though.


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## Kin

yorT said:


> You know every just about every fighter dehydrates themselves to cut weight and saying there is an exception for lutter is rediculous. He had plenty of time to get re hydrated before the fight, other wise the athletic commission would not allow someone in that state to be out there fighting. Lutter lost at his own game!


Very good point.

But still, I mean, come on. Travis Lutter was tired but DOUBLE KNEE SURGERY? I think that I'd much rather be tired than have effed up joints. As a matter of fact, having trained and sparred with both dehydration/fatigue and an effed up joint (on separate occasions) I KNOW that I'd take the fatigue over the alternative. And yeah, that was just with one messed up joint, not two. And an ankle isn't nearly essential for fighting as a knee. 

But nonetheless, if both were in good condition, I don't think that the fight would have been too different. Silva's normally dynamic guard looked like crap that night. Under different circumstances, I think that Lutter would have much difficulty passing it. Plus, knees are integral for more than grappling. It's hard to move and strike without them. So, unhampered by said injury, I think Silva would give lutter quite the beating.


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## yorT

Kin said:


> Very good point.
> 
> But still, I mean, come on. Travis Lutter was tired but DOUBLE KNEE SURGERY? I think that I'd much rather be tired than have effed up joints. As a matter of fact, having trained and sparred with both dehydration/fatigue and an effed up joint (on separate occasions) I KNOW that I'd take the fatigue over the alternative. And yeah, that was just with one messed up joint, not two. And an ankle isn't nearly essential for fighting as a knee.
> 
> But nonetheless, if both were in good condition, I don't think that the fight would have been too different. Silva's normally dynamic guard looked like crap that night. Under different circumstances, I think that Lutter would have much difficulty passing it. Plus, knees are integral for more than grappling. It's hard to move and strike without them. So, unhampered by said injury, I think Silva would give lutter quite the beating.


Completely agree with that


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## TGIB

wasnt the surgery 8 weeks prior to the fight??


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## yorT

either 8 or 6 weeks but either way thats 2 months which for most surgeries you have to rest for at least 2 to 4 weeks so that really only leaves him a month to get his knees back to 100%. Pretty difficult if you ask me.


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## vandalian

Lutter did impress me, in spite of being defeated before the fight even began. But he won't be thrown back into the mix right away. Failing to make weight is a cardinal sin in Dana White's books, so Travis will need to earn his way back.


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## pauly_j

Erm, he was already thrown back into the mix. He had a fight schedueled in one of the more recent ufc events but had to pull out because of an injury.


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## vandalian

pauly_j said:


> Erm, he was already thrown back into the mix. He had a fight schedueled in one of the more recent ufc events but had to pull out because of an injury.


The title mix, I mean.


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## Damone

You know, I wouldn't mind seeing Lutter vs Doerksen in the WEC.


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## box

Lutter could beat Silva in the right conditions, but do u really want a boring fighter like Lutter as the champ, taking every openent to the ground, getting them in side control and staying there for 3 rounds every fight? Thank Silva he won.


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## name goes here

*Steve Mazzagatti interview*

Brought to you by MMA-Elite.com - Index page










*Why and how did you become a referee?*

I’ve been in the fight game since I was a teenager. Wrestling, Muay Thai and Boxing. I started training fighters in the 80s before becoming a referee in 1993. I refereed K-1, Muay Thai and some Boxing. So when MMA got licensed in Nevada in 2002 I was in the right place at the right time.

*What is your favorite venue to ref in? Why?*

I like the shows in Vegas. Any one of the Hotels. All the shows are good UFC, WEC, IFL, King of the cage its all good. I live In Vegas so there’s no travel time.

*If you were Dana White, what UFC rules if any would you change?*

Dana does not make the rules. They use the unified rules set by the commissions NV, NJ, CA, They can take stuff out like say elbows but they cant add stuff like knees to the head on the ground. But that’s what I would like to see bring the knees back on the ground. I don’t care for the soccer kick but when someone is trying to get a heal hook or leg lock it would be nice to kick to the head.

*Which is better in MMA, rings or cages? Why?*

I like the Cage. In a ring the fighters get in the ropes and the referee has to get involved. I try not to effect the fight in any way unless a rule is broken or the fight needs to be stopped. The cage lets the fight happen with little or no referee involvement.

*Do you have a favourite fighter to watch? If so who?*

I like fighters who bring their game to the fight. Standup or Grappling its all good. If they fight like they trained it's going to be a good fight

*Is there any fighters that you have become friends with? How about other refs?*
A referee can’t or should not be buddy buddy with fighters or trainers. It's not professional and looks bad. So I don’t. I am friend's with the other refs and the fans are cool also. I’ve become friends with many fans

*What do you do to prepare before you ref a fight?*

I get tapes of every fight I do and I watch it many times to see if I missed any fouls, and how I can improve. I am always trying to improve.
*
What do you look for when you are deciding whether or not somebody is intelligently defending themselves?*

Do they still want to fight are they trying. If they go passave it's over. Are the punches getting through. Many times a fighter may be punching in bunches but there being blocked or not hitting the target.
*
Is a fighters reputation ever considered when deciding whether to stop a fight or not?*

No but the level of the fightr matters. I mean is it their first fight. Or are they an A,B or C class fighter. The big shows we all see on PPV or TV are all good A or B class fighters and I tend to give them more of a chance. But some of the smaller shows my be a guy who just wants to try his skills and soon finds out "This Sucks". I tend to stop thouse a lot faster. A good referee can tell.
*
What do you say to the fighters in the locker rooms before a fight?*

No striking the back of the head I will take a point. If you grab the fence and it effects the fight I will take a point. This is your warning. If you want to tap I want big taps. The fighters know the rules. I ask them if they have any questions. And good luck.
*
Last but not least, do you realise the pop icon status that your mustache has taken on in the fighting community? Do you have any plans on possibly changing up your mustache style? Maybe a Fu Manchu or a Handlebar?
*
Whats up with that. I wish I could that would be funny. I cant do the Fu Manchu or the handle bar. Iam a firefighter and are mask we go in fires with wont seal.


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## name goes here

*Kalib Starnes interview*

Brought to you by MMA-Elite.com - Index page

Q: First off Kalib, thanks for taking the time to do this. Other than the cut, did you suffer any injuries during your last fight?

Kalib Starnes: No, other than the cut I'm fine.

Q: If the fight had not been stopped due to your cut, do you think that you would have won the fight?

Kalib Starnes: I thought I would grind him down and win, yes.

Q: In hindsight, do you feel you should have tried harder to get the fight on the ground instead of standing and trading with Belcher?

Kalib Starnes: No. I was enjoying myself. I want to be entertaining and I thought it was fairly entertaining, didn't you?

Q: Is there anybody in particular that you would like to fight next? If so who?

Kalib Starnes: I don't care who I fight, I just like to compete and leave it all in the ring, I'll fight whoever they give me.

Q: On TUF Ken Shamrock accused you of faking an injury, have you talked to Ken since then? What do you think about him?

Kalib Starnes: Ken Shamrock???

Q: Do you feel that people don't take you as seriously as they should because you were in The Ultimate Fighter?

Kalib Starnes: If I was to speculate on how people perceive athletes who were on that show, I would say that I feel there are a diverse range of opinions out there, as there have been alot of fighters to come off that show,some more successful than others.

Q: What are your thoughts on Randy Couture's resignation from the UFC?

Kalib Starnes: Now he can sit around and watch reruns of "Wheel Of Fortune"

Q: Do you think that we will start to see more fighters going public to say they are unhappy with what they are being payed?

Kalib Starnes: Impossible to say, though I don't think it will matter if they do, because the "public" doesn't sign the paychecks, Zuffa does.

Q: Do you think that steroids are a bigger problem in MMA than we realise or do you think that the problem is under control?

Kalib Starnes: Performance enhancing drugs are a factor in every sport and have by no means become eliminated from Mixed Martial Arts, Football, Baseball etc, etc. It is a global issue and a multi-billion dollar industry that is simply worth too much money to too many people to just go away. Event testing is a joke by the way, all they have to do is take their own independent test prior to the offical test to ensure they'll pass and stick to drugs which will be out of their systems quicker. It's either regular random testing or no testing at all. As it stands, only the really ignorant ones who can't choose or cycle their steroids properly will get caught and the circus will continue.

Q: Is there anything else that you would like to say?

Kalib Starnes: "The minority, the ruling class at present, has the schools, the press, usually the church as well, under it's thumb. This enables them to organize and sway the emotions of the masses and make it's tool of them" - Albert Einstein


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## name goes here

*Paul McVeigh Interview*

Brought to you by MMA-Elite.com - Index page










Paul went out his way to give us an exclusive interview, this guy is going places in MMA and im thankful that he did this for us.


Heres what he had to say:
*
1. Your camp the "dinky ninjas" have the best motto ever, who came up with it?*
Think i did, it was that long ago and none of us can remember. The baws instead of balls is a Scottish thing, it confuses a lot of people not familiar with the glaswegian accent. It was originally going to be "kicking baws, breaking jaws and riding yer maws" but i think that might be too offensive.
*
2. In your August 2007 fight in braehead, you won by kneebar, video above, i believ you slated a guy in training for going for it, was there alot of "i told you so's?"*
Yeah one of our guys Darkness was spinning for kneebars a lot during mma sparring so i told him he was going to get decapitated. I think it was a week later that i saw Aidan Marron use one to sweep the guy from bottom position. I thought that was quite cool and it must have put it in my head. I did get a fair bit of abuse I dont really do a lot of leglocks. If i land a few more i can start calling myself the pimpminister of leg breaking.
*
3. After that fight you apologised to boxers for saying some bad things about them, what did you say?*
We did an article for one of Scotlands national papers, a sort of reply to the politicians and religious leaders condemning the sport. It was mostly a positive article apart from the bit where they claimed i said all boxers were drug dealers and thick. It was a bit of an insight and taught me to be a bit more wary round journalist, i know they are just doing their job but out of context quotes can be hurtful to the sport and to my brain when the pro boxers we train with find out ive been calling them dumbass crack dealers.

*4. The MMA scene in scotland is up and coming but we dont have many top tier fighters coming through to the UK's main promotion Cage Rage, what do you feel can be done better in scotland to let these guys come through?*
I think the mma scene in scotland is going the way it should be, we have a number of a class fighters here that could easily appear on the likes of cage warriors, cage rage, FX3 etc. But for the minute they are happy competing in the shows around Scotland.

Most of the bigger shows are located in and around London which is a pain in the sac to get to from glasgow, because of this not many of our supporters make the journey and that screws up any potential bonuses from ticket sales.
Our fighters earn more experience and money fighting on the Sportfight Scotland shows than they currently would competing on some of the bigger shows.

When guys like Afterburner, Boomtime and Quinny get more experience their coaches might then decide to send them to more high profile shows.

*5. What do you make of the new proposed cage wars reality show?*

As a giant media whore, i think i should be on it. Dunno much about it other than its set in dubai. Reality TV is a pox on the intellects of right thinking individuals, however when its reality TV mixed with violence its usually pretty good.


*6. Would you try out for TUF if it was in your weight class?*

Yeah, im starting to believe people when they tell me im Europes number one bantamweight, Im starting to get more faith in my abilities. Would be an interesting experience although i coulnt promise not to go feral and end up eating a fellow contestants severed leg while hiding up a tree by about week 4.
*
7. Before the first Cage Wars at braehead, Scottish politicians were campaigning for a ban on MMA in Scotland, what are your thoughts on this?*
That was the funniest crap ive ever heard "i dont claim to know what cage fighting is but i find it morally detestable", i dont know a lot about quantum mechanics therefore i dont offer an opinion about it to the national press.

I think a number of politicians saw it as an opportunity to get some air time and its easier to do that by condemning cagefighting as opposed to supporting an mma event.

I was more pissed off by the religious leaders condemning it, i think we are passed the age when these people have juristication over our moral guidelines. These are the same people who would demand I stay in a loveless marriage, brainwash my kids into following a belief system they couldnt possibly understand, not get my rocks of until i was married, not use contraception despite stds and treat women as inferiors. But competing in a legitamate sporting event is wrong. I dont know a whole lot about religion but to me it is really just a bunch of guys talking to their imaginery friends.

Fecking hell that was a rant, sorry.
*
8. You mentioned in a previous interview for fighters only magazine that you have ambitions to fight in WEC, any progress?*
Well beating a Brazilian wrestling champ and Brazilian jiu jitsu champion in my last bout has opened up a few doors. I was a fly's dong width away from a fight in Shooto a couple of weeks ago.

I want to fight internationally a bit more to further assess my level, but i dont see myself making a big impact for another 4-5 years. Thats the timeframe ive given myself to improve after that im gonna settle down and become a criminal mastermind.

*9. How do you feel about the ufc having shows in the UK?
*
It rocks, i was at the last two and im pretty sure i had a semi for most of the show. I heard that the ufc in manchester wasnt a great show on ppv but being there was awesome. It was one of the experiences that really made me commit to a career in mma.

Whether its good for the other domestic shows is another matter.

*10. is it good exposure, or is there a fear that their business model will hurt the smaller shows and orgs?
*
Not sure will need to see how it pans out, its certainly making people more aware of mma (or more likely ultimate fighting) but whether they see people outwith that organisation as being not worth watching who knows.

One of the traits imported from the ufc to their uk shows that was a bit crap was the booing. At ufc 38 there was none (apart from at the james zikic decision) now if there is a lull in the action it kicks off. i spent a fair amount of time at ufc manchester regulating those in the crowd around me. As a fighter its frustrating but people are entitled to their opinions even if they are ****tarded.
*
11. how do you feel about the Bisping Hammill fight?
*
I saw it live and felt that it was the right decision . Ive met Mike a few times now and he's an awesome guy that and the crowd may have influenced me but at the time i felt the decision was correct. I havent seen it since so may have different opinion afterwards but it wasnt the worst decision in mma history like everyone is claiming.

*12. with fewer smaller weight classes would you ever move up to LW, if so you must be a target for the UFC's UK shows.
*
**** that. I walk around at 68-69kg, i met vitor shoalin once who fights at lightweight and i thought he was gonna eat me he was about 80kg.

Ive competed at 70kgs a few times and its frustrating not being able to do the stuff you wanna do cause some heavy fecker is lying on you. Ill stick at being the best in a weight category that no fully developed male can get too.

*13. if you could fight any non MMA fighter who would it be, id fight ghandi, reckon i could drag out an LNP victory.
Good call on Ghandhi, think hed be hard to tap what with being dead and all.*
Ive been asked this question before and said kelly brook in a match with special sexy rules. Now id have to say Kelly brook and gwen stefani in a match with super sexy rules (i went through puberty listening to No doubt).

*14. Lastly, do you have any words for the guys at Team Coco and mma-elite.com, im trying to convert them to the UK scene?*
Cheers for watching the sport there would be no point in attention whores like us fighting grown men in cages if nobody turned up to witness the event.

With the people at mma-elite.com watching im sure to come at my next opponent like a rabid spidermonkey.

Final words: epididymus its a good word.

Thanks to Ian Dean and Cagewarriors for the support and to Ian personally for spending 4 hours loitering in a changing room looking at my dehydrated cock while i struggled to make weight at the last cagewarriors.




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## Negative1

Wow, what a poor interview.



> Q: On TUF Ken Shamrock accused you of faking an injury, have you talked to Ken since then? What do you think about him?


I knew it was only a matter of time before someone asked him that question. He stated on the boards over at Shitdog calling Shamrock an SOB. Which in turn, the interviewer only tried to spark more flames with that question.


----------



## Negative1

Alot better than the Starnes interview. :thumbsup: 

This dude is a badass. Hardcore referee, lives in Vegas, a Firefighter. What doesn't this man do. I wanna see a picture of his girlfriend/wife, shes prolly like 19 lol


----------



## hollando

hes also a fighter 

then again so is herb


----------



## hollando

garbage

f you starnes


----------



## smooth810

I actually love the part about steriods....He's putting it out there...were just blind


----------



## Biowza

That was a pretty bad interview, I mean the interviewer didn't follow up on any questions.


----------



## Robb2140

great read, repped:thumbsup:


----------



## Robb2140

I like Mazzagati even better after reading that. The guy has a stache that only Dan Severn and Don Frye would be proud of.

I also like that the refs are all for knees on the ground, I think we will see this rule change in the next couple of years.


----------



## wafb

He reminds me of Mario or Luigi:confused02: He's my favourite ref after Big John.:thumbsup:


----------



## geekpipe

didnt know he has been around so long! god enough with the moustache questions!


----------



## _JB_

Thanks.....


----------



## cabby

Mazzagatti is such a pornstar with a full stache


----------



## coldcall420

*Not sure if Wandy could beat Forrest....*

After what I saw tonight I dont think forrest would have much to worry about gainst Wandy, while boosting his rep significantly....:dunno:


----------



## enochian

ufc fighters are taller and bigger than pride fighters.
id be difficult for a clinch


----------



## mascher

Wandy would kick seven shades of shite out of Forrest. Ridiculous how people go overboard after one fight. Chuck is an awful matchup for Wand, that's all. No ones going to be talking Forrest up after he gets knocked out in the first by Rampage.


----------



## coldcall420

What exactly does Wandy have that would knock the shit out of Forrest.....dont get me wrong I know he's blackbelt in bjj and muay Thai but where were the clinches or the takedowns and Forrest has significantly improved his ground game with coture, forrest has longer reach than Wandy and I think you might be surprised. By the way I have seen Wandy fight before and if you go back to Forrest beatin Shogun...i said it then I think Forrest can beat Wandy and last night made me think it more....:thumb02:look up the threads after that fight you'll see..


----------



## mascher

coldcall420 said:


> What exactly does Wandy have that would knock the shit out of Forrest.....dont get me wrong I know he's blackbelt in bjj and muay Thai but where were the clinches or the takedowns and Forrest has significantly improved his ground game with coture, forrest has longer reach than Wandy and I think you might be surprised. By the way I have seen Wandy fight before and if you go back to Forrest beatin Shogun...i said it then I think Forrest can beat Wandy and last night made me think it more....:thumb02:look up the threads after that fight you'll see..


Love how people keep using the Forrest Shogun fight as some yard stick to judge Griffin with. Answer this. Have you ever seen someone gas so early in a fight?


----------



## Uchi

Answer this as well, have you seen anyone with a torn acl(or knee injury) and hardly any cardio training still manage to take the fight to the third round keep the fight competitive?

But in all respect, Forrest fought one arms i suppose,

but torn acl(or knee injury)+no cardio training is alot worse than fighting without 1 arm imo


----------



## BrutalKO

coldcall420....good point. both Wandy & Shogun came from Chutebox...stylistically Wandy & Shogun are alike...so Forrest putting away Shogun is a good indicator that he would fight Wandy the same way. But just because Wandy lost his debut...like Shogun did...doesn't mean they are out of the picture. But as for Griffin beating Wandy...that could happen. But Forrest has the 205 recking machine Quinton Jackson to deal with first. Forrest is a great fighter...Rampage is at the top of the food chain...


----------



## coldcall420

*Lyoto or Tito...who ya got????*

Just finished watching the countdown last night and i know that Dana has to sell the fights and hype them but the piece on Lyoto machida was particularly interesting. He seems to be a very disciplined and motivated....Personally I already had picked Machida to beat Tito, after watching the countdown, and the giant sized head that Machida will easily be able to hit...what does everyone else think?????


----------



## burton_o6

I hate Tito but I think he is going to pull this one off.


----------



## nevrsummr13

i still think machida takes this win but its mainly on whether tito can take lyoto down or not but then again machida can sub him too

i got it like 75/25 machida


----------



## 4u2nv

lyoto bc his subs r better and gnp is awesome... tito needs to leave the ufc after all this and needs a beating after bad mouthing it so badly


----------



## coldcall420

*Who Ya Got Wandy Or Jardine????*

I think that Wandy will have his hands full but thats why they fight. Im goin with Jardine!!!! What ya think?????


----------



## KBaller1115

*axe murderer*

I think that Vandy used to beat people so bad in Japan that since he has gotten a step slower and is off the juice, he has had to sort of rediscover himself as a fighter. I could see in his fight with Chuck that all he cared about was putting on a good show and endearing himself to the American fans. If you listen to his interviews about the upcoming Jardine fight, he sounds like his passion for winning has been renewed and he has been able to find his confidence again. Training with Randy I'm sure has helped round him out a little bit, as well as help him establish a game plan other than 'attack, attack, attack.' 
Bottom line, I'll take vandy in a round two TKO.


----------



## coldcall420

KBaller1115 said:


> I think that Vandy used to beat people so bad in Japan that since he has gotten a step slower and is off the juice, he has had to sort of rediscover himself as a fighter. I could see in his fight with Chuck that all he cared about was putting on a good show and endearing himself to the American fans. If you listen to his interviews about the upcoming Jardine fight, he sounds like his passion for winning has been renewed and he has been able to find his confidence again. Training with Randy I'm sure has helped round him out a little bit, as well as help him establish a game plan other than 'attack, attack, attack.'
> Bottom line, I'll take vandy in a round two TKO.


thanks for the hit back but Wandy really sound like that every tome he fights so we'll see. eitherway i see jardine winnin this one.....


----------



## _RIVAL_

I gotta go with Wanderlei on this fight. I am really seeing him making his comeback.

*MAKE ME PROUD AXE MURDERER! :thumb04:*


----------



## Mikles

I'm with my boy Wandy on this one, my ideal win would be KO by Knees.


----------



## DosUnoTres

wandy is below 6 feet, forrest is 6'3", so i think its a tough match - up for wandy, and wandy is not in his peak but if they fight way back pride days im sure wandy will kick the hell out of forrest just like what he did to rampage.


----------



## coldcall420

mascher said:


> Love how people keep using the Forrest Shogun fight as some yard stick to judge Griffin with. Answer this. Have you ever seen someone gas so early in a fight?


I would never be ignorant enough to judge a fighters ability based on one fight....Forrest has done very well in his division his fight against tito arguably could have gone to forrest watch it...nice stand-up performances against Bonner twice and of course the above mention win over Shogun....look the point is that Forrest has alot of heart can take a punch and based on Wandy's first two performances, it looks possible.....however since Wandy fought jardine that guy that came out and knocked out Jardine looked way bettr and more convincing, with that said i still think Forrest would do well....:dunno:


----------



## coldcall420

*Spike T.v. UFC 86 Countdown*

Is on tonight Monday June 30 at midnight on the east coast.........if posted already please delete.:thumbsup: http://mmamania.com/2008/06/30/ufc-countdown-86-to-jackson-vs-griffin-airs-tonight-on-spike-tv/


----------



## Composure

Good post bro. I will be watching that in 41 minutes.


----------



## coldcall420

*Shoguns Next opponent....*

So I have been reading alot on Shogun and there are tons of people on the forum who love the guy. I am hearing maybe around October he'll be back, my question...Who should Shogun fight next??? Anyone think they will throw him in there against Machida or if not who do you see him fighting next???:confused02:


----------



## Shamrock-Ortiz

Give him Sokoudjou, Sokky is calling him out alot so I wouldn't be suprised if that fight happens.


----------



## TheNegation

Shogun actually doesn't deserve to fight Lyoto.

Liddell or Sokky. I hope it's Sokky.


----------



## x X CLoud X x

i would like to see shogun get a warmup so i chose Houston Alexander


----------



## Arlovski_Fan

I want to see him fight Sokky, although I actually think Sokky might win as he punches very hard. You never know though, he might choke again :dunno:


----------



## SpecC

I'd love to see Shogun fight Machida, but Liddell or Sokky are probably more realistic.


----------



## coldcall420

i would like Sokky then if he beats him(lol) then i think they may give him Machida...i think that would be great!!!:thumb02:


----------



## Jewbacca

Liddell most likely...maybe Sokky


----------



## Just a Fan

I just hope a fully healthy shogun is fighting.


----------



## Davisty69

I'm down with the Sokky. The bad thing is that Sokky has the power to give Shogun his second loss in a row. That guy can KO anyone.


----------



## coldcall420

Davisty69 said:


> I'm down with the Sokky. The bad thing is that Sokky has the power to give Shogun his second loss in a row. That guy can KO anyone.


I agree but Sokky is useless on the ground and obviously Shogun is comfortable on the ground i think the biggest challange for Shogun in that fight would be just to get Sokky down and he will win...:dunno:


----------



## Davisty69

coldcall420 said:


> I agree but Sokky is useless on the ground and obviously Shogun is comfortable on the ground i think the biggest challange for Shogun in that fight would be just to get Sokky down and he will win...:dunno:


Agreed, but just like with any powerful striker with that one punch KO power, he has to get past the strikes to get the TD.

I think a normal Shogun would win, but Sokky has that punchers chance for sure.


----------



## demoman993

Doesn't make a difference to me if it's Sokky or Liddell. It's a bad matchup for him against Chuck for a comeback fight but either one of them I would be stoked to see Shogun come back. I've been hearing that it's later than October though, the sooner the better


----------



## N1™

shogun vs jardine would be good AND make sense


----------



## coldcall420

I just watched Sokky vs. Machida and that fght was alot more one sided than i remember, i wonder about jardine, that could be a good fight and Jardine is so goofy in there with his awkward movements i wouldnt mind watching that....but i think i would rather see him whip sokky fr callin him out then either liddell or machida.....


----------



## N1™

i dont know i you guys know this but i was THE Shogun fan back in the day and i still am but he isnt in my top 3 anymore for the simple reason that ...... well he havent fought in ages , apart from the forrest fight where he was injured


----------



## adobostreak

norway1 said:


> shogun vs jardine would be good AND make sense


jardine is the perfect "comeback" stepping stone for pride fighters


----------



## Chileandude

id like to see Shogun vs Jardine, leading up to a possible Shogun vs Machida/Lidell.


----------



## Aaronyman

I'd like to see him fight the Dean of Mean...


----------



## Shamrock-Ortiz

norway1 said:


> shogun vs jardine would be good AND make sense


Awesome, I didn't think of that fight but thinking about that, I would love to see it. Aslong as Shogun is in good shape and injury free:thumbsup:

Please recover Shogun.


----------



## Lotus

i think shogun should have a warm up fight to get back into it and get rid of the rust befor ehe steps in with anyone really noteworthy. If it came down to it jardine vs shogun would be a good fight and i think shogun would (i hope) tear him apart.


----------



## IcemanCometh

I would rather not see Shogun vs. Jardine as it would be Silva/Jardine II, IMO. He needs to fight henderson if he is moving back up to LHW or Sokko. Anyone that said HA needs there head examined. He is on his way out.


----------



## coldcall420

When you think of Shogun losing to Forrest maybe a fight against Stephan Bonner who is comming back could be a possibility....:dunno:


----------



## purple_haze

lets throw both soky and lidell at him at once, and then he go for machida after he destroys them both bruce lee style


----------



## wafb

Sokky has been really vocal about wanting to fight Shogun, Joe Silva might just make it happen.


----------



## name goes here

*Rewatching A.Silva v Patrick Cote*

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Anderson_Silva_vs__Patrick_Cote_UFC_90?vid=10001997&tid=100

So what is going on here? Is A.Silva playing a smart game? Is Patrick Cote playing a smart game? Is Silva fighting his worse fight we've ever seen him fight? And if so why? :dunno:


----------



## Suizida

I honestly think that if that fight continued then Andy would have finished Cote, in the last 10 seconds in the 2nd, Anderson starts using the maui thai clinch and he seems to land a lot of damage there and i remember thinking 'he's gonna use it now and finish it'.

Cote wouldn't strike with him, so andy wouldn't counter, it was a bumma of a main event, but you gotta give it to Cote, one helluva chin on him


----------



## kay_o_ken

yeah i know what you mean, its a shame it never finished


----------



## name goes here

I'm sure we've seen Ander figt unnagressive fighters before though, he's normally more willing to be aggressive than this?


----------



## Gutz

I think he was having an offday that or he was getting bored and wanted to mess around.


----------



## Brand X

Just a question here.
So Cote knew his legs was injured, why in the hell would he hop on it 3 or 4 times?:dunno:


----------



## yorT

Yeah when I was watching this fight, the whole time I was saying WTF! Couldn't understand the game plan. I mean Silva even offered to help Cote up off the canvas.


----------



## Bradysupafan

All I remember is trying to stay awake during that fight. Dozing off then waking up because they stopped after Cote stubbed his toe or something


----------



## Xerxes

I've watched the fight twice IIRC, while ago. I remember thinking Cote's game plan was very smart, Silva couldn't find his rhythm the whole fight (he even admitted himself post fight I believe).


----------



## Judoka

I was disappointed with the fight. It had potential but Anderson seemed more preoccupied with dancing rather then fighting.

That being said, like said before he couldn't find his rhythm so as a more intelligent style fighter I would say he wouldn't want to rush in and do something stupid.


----------



## name goes here

Aren't we just making excuses For Ander because we know how awesome he's been before? If this was any other two fighters wouldn't we say they both sucked?


----------



## yorT

Exactly, we know what he, Anderson, is capable of.


----------



## stitch1z

name goes here said:


> Aren't we just making excuses For Ander because we know how awesome he's been before? *If this was any other two fighters wouldn't we say they both sucked?*


Yes. :thumb02:


----------



## LCRaiders

Silva was toying with Cote. He was picking his spots and landing. It was an entertaining fight until Cote got injured. I wouldn't mind seeing the two of them go at it again.


----------



## xeberus

I actually enjoyed this fight until the ending. I don't know what andersons plan was going in, but he's finished everyone quickly, it makes sense to me if he wanted to show he could go 5 rounds or just wanted to play with cote.


----------



## _RIVAL_

Anderson didn't engage as much as he usually does. Hard to say why.


----------



## No_Mercy

Don't understand why people are criticizing him as having an off night. He fought the way he usually fights. If Cote had no idea who Silva was it would have ended in the first round. Any of those shots Silva made could have stunned any other fighters. How many shots did Cote land. No clear solid shots. Silva dodged all of em with some slick maneuvering. Cote was a puppet being dangled by the Spider. Another point I brought up awhile back is that injury was almost induced by Silva's superior footwork and defense. Cote tried lunging at him and stutter stepped. Kinda like when a fast point guard or b-ball player fakes and jukes the defender and he ends up being wrong footed or twisting his ankle. After Thales I feel the real challenge will be Demian or Lyoto (if they ever fight.)


----------



## Combat Soul

Silva was dicking around a little, I don't know if he bought into his own hype or what but he seemed to be treating the fight as a mess around in training.

Also he was respecting Cote because the guy has an iron jaw so you can tag him hard, move in thinking he would be dazed and he can blast you back. Seriously look at his head when he gets hit it stays still and his eyes hardly move.


----------



## Toxic

Silva was thrown off when Cote didnt pressure him, Silva was dancing around trying to get Cote to get frustrated and wreckless, Cote was doing a good job of keeping his composure, its simply a matter of Anderson not wanting to get wreckless either, Anderson Silva was doing what many in this thread arent and thats giving Cote's power the respect it deserves, Anderson understood that Cote had a legitimate shot of knocking him out and wanted to avoid it, Cote understood that Anderson wanted him to come forward wildly and was avoiding that, it was basically two guys who both understood the other was packing some serious power. From Andersons point of view his actions make sense, Silva was the more technical striker and most likely knew he was ahead on the scorecards and could take the fight on the scorecards if necessary so he was being patient, Cote was looking to throw the heavy leather and land the one punch that would change everything, it may not of been everyones cup of tea but the people that thing Anderson Silva was playing some kind of game need to give there head a shake, you dont play with somebody who can knock you out with one punch, dont kid yourself Anderson landed some heavy blows and was looking to end the fight he just wasnt getting wreckless to do it.


----------



## Robopencil

Suizida said:


> *I honestly think that if that fight continued then Andy would have finished Cote, in the last 10 seconds in the 2nd*, Anderson starts using the maui thai clinch and he seems to land a lot of damage there and i remember thinking 'he's gonna use it now and finish it'.
> 
> Cote wouldn't strike with him, so andy wouldn't counter, it was a bumma of a main event, but you gotta give it to Cote, one helluva chin on him


Cote injured himself at the very end of round 3. 

I'm not really sure what to make of this fight. I don't think that Anderson Silva was playing with him the entire time. I don't think he would be that disrespectful. Also, he would've known how bad it would make him look. A lot of people were disappointed with Anderson after that fight.

I think that Cote just went into that fight with a solid chin, and a style that Anderson had more difficulty capitalizing on than others.


----------



## randyspankstito

name goes here said:


> http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Anderson_Silva_vs__Patrick_Cote_UFC_90?vid=10001997&tid=100
> 
> So what is going on here? Is A.Silva playing a smart game? Is Patrick Cote playing a smart game? Is Silva fighting his worse fight we've ever seen him fight? And if so why? :dunno:



Silva was just dicking around so he could go for more than one round. He could have KTFO"d Cote anytime he wanted to. You ever seen a cat play with a mouse?


----------



## jasonc84

I think Anderson deserves so much respect, but i think its a bit crazy to say he was just toying with Cote. I believe when asked he denied that, Cote just wasn't rushing forward like everyone else who has fought Anderson. Anderson is a counter striker and Cote wasn't giving him much to work with. Also the shots that he landed on Cote would have rocked many other fighters, Cote has a great chin. He also has great power and i think Anderson was respecting that and not being reckless, i'm sure he was confident he was ahead on the score cards.


----------



## yorT

Robopencil said:


> Cote injured himself at the very end of round 3.
> 
> I'm not really sure what to make of this fight. I don't think that Anderson Silva was playing with him the entire time. I don't think he would be that disrespectful. Also, he would've known how bad it would make him look. A lot of people were disappointed with Anderson after that fight.
> 
> I think that Cote just went into that fight with a solid chin, and a style that Anderson had more difficulty capitalizing on than others.


Beginning of the 3rd he got injured.


----------



## name goes here

yorT said:


> Exactly, we know what he, Anderson, is capable of.


Yeah because he rocked Henderson with strikes, and many other tough guys.
But who is Cote? The only time I've ever been impressed with Cote is watching him not get ko'd in the first by Anderson. That aside he beat some not that great really guys. I'm not sure why people are crediting Cote with an Iron Chin or Great power.
What if Anderson just came into the fight with flu? That's why he hardly engaged, and that's why his strikes didn't finish Cote.:dunno:


----------



## TraMaI

Gutz said:


> I think he was having an offday that or he was getting bored and wanted to mess around.


This. It honestly surprises me that no one else saw it like that (or at least so few). Anderson is BORED with his level of competition and he was showing it really bad. I mean he Tried againts franklin, lutter, henderson adn the like but now that he's plowed through everyone and the UFC is handing him people who (I personally think) are not high enough caliber to be fighting him, he's showing his other side. The reason why Andy is going to retire (or threaten to) is because he's bored with his competition.I honestly think he should move to LHW as its a far more stacked division


----------



## JoshKnows46

he's bored....he was just toying with cote.


----------



## Drogo

name goes here said:


> Yeah because he rocked Henderson with strikes, and many other tough guys.
> But who is Cote? The only time I've ever been impressed with Cote is watching him not get ko'd in the first by Anderson. That aside he beat some not that great really guys. I'm not sure why people are crediting Cote with an Iron Chin or Great power.


You're not sure why Cote is credited with an iron chin? Because he's been hit hard by guys who are known to hit very hard and not only never been KO'd but never even been wobbled. Leben landed plenty of solid shots on Cote and never fazed him. Drew McFedries landed a great punch right on the button and got knocked out by Cote half a second later. He got hammered by Silva a couple times in their fight and kept going.

He not only takes shots well but tends to fire back immediately, he might very well have the best chin in MMA.


----------



## BrianRClover

This fight has a very simple answer. Cote's head is made of granite! Seriously, watch the replays.  Anderson landed some serious shots, but Cote didn't go down. Just about any other guy in there and it would have looked like Anderson's usual dominant self.


----------



## randyspankstito

I think that the part when Cote shot for a takedown and Silva just moved to the side and let him run headfirst into the fence pretty much sums this whole fight up for me.


----------



## yorT




----------



## JBL

yorT said:


>


That pretty much sums up the fight for me. :thumb02:


----------



## ojibwar

First time I've watched this fight. And now more then ever, do i want someone to knock silvia out. knock him cold. Hes good, maybe great, but hes also getting full of himself.


----------



## Liddellianenko

IMO Silva was bored and is actually starting to feel bad for anhilliating fools that are nowhere near his level. It's like beating on like 3 year olds or midgets.. your concience would nag and you just humor them . How overly nice and over the top respectful Silva was being at the weigh ins showed just that... he knew Cote was a bit afraid of him (even though he would never admit it), heck just about any fighter would be, and it seemed to me he almost felt bad. Like "hey there little guy, it's ok, just come in and spar a little, I won't hurt ya that bad." Just reminds me of the kinda thing you do when you spar with some 120 lb high school sophomore kid that you have 80 lbs on .. you just try to be nice and not break their spirit.

What Silva needs is a true contest, someone near his level like GSP or LHW guys like Rampage, Rashad etc. Either that, or opponents that make his blood boil, like Okami. Other than that, MW contenders like Maia can pose serious threats to him but guys like Cote and Leites are enough to put him to sleep, and I mean like yawns sleep not KO sleep.


----------



## yorT

ojibwar said:


> First time I've watched this fight. And now more then ever, do i want someone to knock silvia out. knock him cold. Hes good, maybe great, but hes also getting full of himself.


And how exactly is he getting full of himself?


----------



## name goes here

So of the three possibilities
Patrick has amazing chin - doesn't explain why Silva didn't do much
Silva was bored - impossible for us to say, I wish he had just beat him up quickly if he could
Silva had an off day - not many supporters of this, I just say it because of the long list of awesome fighters who one day turn up looking bad


----------



## PirateNinja415

Toxic said:


> Silva was thrown off when Cote didnt pressure him, Silva was dancing around trying to get Cote to get frustrated and wreckless, Cote was doing a good job of keeping his composure, its simply a matter of Anderson not wanting to get wreckless either, Anderson Silva was doing what many in this thread arent and thats giving Cote's power the respect it deserves, Anderson understood that Cote had a legitimate shot of knocking him out and wanted to avoid it, Cote understood that Anderson wanted him to come forward wildly and was avoiding that, it was basically two guys who both understood the other was packing some serious power. From Andersons point of view his actions make sense, Silva was the more technical striker and most likely knew he was ahead on the scorecards and could take the fight on the scorecards if necessary so he was being patient, Cote was looking to throw the heavy leather and land the one punch that would change everything, it may not of been everyones cup of tea but the people that thing Anderson Silva was playing some kind of game need to give there head a shake, you dont play with somebody who can knock you out with one punch, dont kid yourself Anderson landed some heavy blows and was looking to end the fight he just wasnt getting wreckless to do it.


This

i agree anderson was giving cote's power a lot of respect. if he went in wild he could've been knocked out. cote has a lot of power behind his punches and we all know that he has a solid chin. i think we'll definitely see a different anderson against thales. i remember hearing that gaining the extra weight to fight at 205 and then dropping back to 185 drained silva a bit as well, he won't have that problem in his next fight.


----------



## name goes here

*Rashad was stepping forward when he got knocked out*

As I said. Whoever it was who disagreed with me










LOOOOOK duh!

His own impetus helped knock him out. Rushing forward might not be the smartest gameplan, as everyone is suggesting.


----------



## IndependentMOFO

That's not what finished the fight though....


----------



## Stapler

I don't think it really matters, it still helped.

That's the future of Shogun if he gets too aggressive against Machida.


----------



## Emericanaddict

Yeah mang thats not the end of the fight. He got Knocked out with his back against the fence hands down and trying to talk shit (he admitted to trying to talk crap in an interview)


----------



## Buckingham

Emericanaddict said:


> Yeah mang thats not the end of the fight. He got Knocked out with his back against the fence hands down and trying to talk shit (he admitted to trying to talk crap in an interview)


Get over the whole shit talking thing. How many damn fighters talk shit when they get hit? Plenty


----------



## fjurado

Where was the knockout?

Machida seen the wind up, and totally turned on the heat and beat him to the punch!!!!!!!


----------



## Emericanaddict

Buckingham said:


> Get over the whole shit talking thing. How many damn fighters talk shit when they get hit? Plenty


Ummm first off, **** off, because I wasnt complaining just pointing out a hillarious point.

Second of all can you please give me some examples of these "plenty" amounts of fighters who shit talk while getting hit?

Personally I can ONLY think of Rashad im not saying anything bad about it im just asking who other than him actually have done this recently and in several fights in a row like Rashad has.

Fact is he was stupid tohave been try it when he could have focused on maybe shooting in and stopping the barage of fist that ko'ed his ass instead of running his mouth lol.


----------



## Buckingham

Emericanaddict said:


> Ummm first off, **** off, because I wasnt complaining just pointing out a hillarious point.
> 
> Second of all can you please give me some examples of these "plenty" amounts of fighters who shit talk while getting hit?
> 
> Personally I can ONLY think of Rashad im not saying anything bad about it im just asking who other than him actually have done this recently and in several fights in a row like Rashad has.
> 
> Fact is he was stupid tohave been try it when he could have focused on maybe shooting in and stopping the barage of fist that ko'ed his ass instead of running his mouth lol.


Man it's so many fighters that I don't even have to name any. Smiling when getting hit, waving your hands for your opponent to hit you, saying a hit didn't hurt during a fight is all shit talking.


I agree with your last point


----------



## CashKola

Buckingham said:


> Man it's so many fighters that I don't even have to name any. Smiling when getting hit, waving your hands for your opponent to hit you, saying a hit didn't hurt during a fight is all shit talking.
> 
> 
> I agree with your last point



Ya but other fighters do that after they have been hit, and have some distance, not in the middle of a combination by Machida.


----------



## name goes here

This punch is the one that won the fight, the other punches afterwards were just wrapping things up quickly. The fact that Rashad was stepping foward at the time is a big deal, as Machida doesn't really have one punch knockout power otherwise.


----------



## Mirage445

name goes here said:


> This punch is the one that won the fight, the other punches afterwards were just wrapping things up quickly. The fact that Rashad was stepping foward at the time is a big deal, as *Machida doesn't really have one punch knockout power otherwise.*


I wonder if Thiago Silva would agree...?


----------



## name goes here

Thiago was on the ground from a throw, Machida punched him from the top/ standing. Thiago had taken a lot of punishment already throughout the fight.
Sometimes Thiago got hit and knocked down, but he didn't get knocked out - and most of those strikes Thiago was stepping forward at the time.

http://video.mma-tv.net/?z=4397


----------



## Danomac

Who gives a ****? He got KO'd bad. Doesn't matter if it was one or more, it happened. No one ever had Rashad in trouble since his TUF finale fight and he was mega green then. Same goes for TSilva before his fight with Machida.


----------



## rabakill

name goes here said:


> This punch is the one that won the fight, the other punches afterwards were just wrapping things up quickly. The fact that Rashad was stepping foward at the time is a big deal, as Machida doesn't really have one punch knockout power otherwise.


Except that he knocked him out with a punch to the face... Rashad said himself that the punches before the knockout weren't hurting him. Knocking a guy unconscious because you punched him in the jaw usually classifies as knockout power to most people. :confused02:


----------



## GodlyMoose

Here's the .gif bigger and slower. I just love the way he traps Rashad's hand as it's coming in and knocks it down and just fires a punch at his face before Rashad can even punch.


----------



## Clivey

Buckingham said:


> Man it's so many fighters that I don't even have to name any.


lol.. wtf?


----------



## name goes here

GodlyMoose said:


> Here's the .gif bigger and slower. I just love the way he traps Rashad's hand as it's coming in and knocks it down and just fires a punch at his face before Rashad can even punch.


Ahhh! Awesome, that is the sort of thing they teach you in class that you always think, 'yeah as if I'll ever use this':thumb02:


----------



## thedrinkableone

pretty much every time machida knocks someone down they are stepping in.this is nothing new.


----------



## DocTran

GodlyMoose said:


> Here's the .gif bigger and slower. I just love the way he traps Rashad's hand as it's coming in and knocks it down and just fires a punch at his face before Rashad can even punch.


That's pretty cool. It seems almost choreographed.

Please excuse my ignorance but is there a debate about Machida's recent win in terms of whether or not he has 1 punch KO power? I never saw him as having that kind of power.


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy

This move is so beautiful, and deliberate it's scary, when you watch the full video, right before this strike Evans keeps feinting forward with that down and to the right, lean in body movement, he does it twice, and this third time gets telegraphed out the WaZoOo.

It may not have finished the fight, but it's surely the beginning of the end.


----------



## Walker

I don't this is a huge deal but the end of the fight when Rashad was against the cage 1- he wasn't talking crap verbally, in the interview he was talking about what he was thinking, not saying, while he was getting punched repeatedly. 2- he's against the cage Lyoto takes a back step to set his feet for the left that finally ends the fight and Rashad, who was clearly on queer street by then, takes a step with his left foot forward and BLAMMO!


----------



## coldcall420

name goes here said:


> As I said. Whoever it was who disagreed with me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOOOOOK duh!
> 
> His own impetus helped knock him out. Rushing forward might not be the smartest gameplan, as everyone is suggesting.





IndependentMOFO said:


> That's not what finished the fight though....


 
After watching the fight like 50 times.......What Rashad was doing was shakin his shoulders alot like he does tryin to fake machida out and he would step forward with his left foot in a spring motion while shakin his shoulders lookin for a way in on Lyoto.....this went on most of the 1st round.....

This didnt do much for him in the first round and in the second he continued to do it but eventually did what everyone does which is make a mistake and move in too far forward.......

Lyoto had become the agressor at that point backing Evans down with punches and high kicks to the head.....:thumbsup:


----------



## SpoKen

coldcall420 said:


> After watching the fight like 50 times.......What Rashad was doing was shakin his shoulders alot like he does tryin to fake machida out and he would step forward with his left foot in a spring motion while shakin his shoulders lookin for a way in on Lyoto.....this went on most of the 1st round.....
> 
> This didnt do much for him in the first round and in the second he continued to do it but eventually did what everyone does which is make a mistake and move in too far forward.......
> 
> Lyoto had become the agressor at that point backing Evans down with punches and high kicks to the head.....:thumbsup:


This. Evans was looking for any way in on Machida but couldn't find it. It looked like he found a way to get some shots in from long range, which was the straight right to straight left. This would have been smart because it makes Machida move backwards instead of side stepping.

But when Rashad went to throw the punches, Machida trapped his hand instead of moving at all and countered.

That right there let me know that even if I dissect all of Machida's vids and watch his style.. I could never find a counter for it.

Rashad threw that combo maybe.. twice or maybe 3 times in the whole fight. One time he backed up instead of side stepping, the other time he got stunned and eventually finished.


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy

Walker said:


> I don't this is a huge deal but the end of the fight when Rashad was against the cage 1- he wasn't talking crap verbally, in the interview he was talking about what he was thinking, not saying, while he was getting punched repeatedly. 2- he's against the cage Lyoto takes a back step to set his feet for the left that finally ends the fight and Rashad, who was clearly on queer street by then, takes a step with his left foot forward and BLAMMO!


he said he was thinking, "this dude don't even hit hard" and then he went to say "you hit like a *****" and took a few shots for his trouble.

the smack-talking moment happens when rashad rises to his feet and starts backing up to the cage, as he steps backwards he starts mouthing something, takes two hits to the face, hits the fence, and then takes the leg kick.

did anyone else notice machida loading up the tito knee during the flurry? As evans stood, he went to grab the back of his head with both hands, and ram the knee into the body, but decides to just continue to throw punches.


----------



## Bob Pataki

Where have I seen that first punch before? :confused02: 

Oh yeah, I know...










:thumb02:


----------



## coldcall420

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> he said he was thinking, "this dude don't even hit hard" and then he went to say "you hit like a *****" and took a few shots for his trouble.
> 
> the smack-talking moment happens when rashad rises to his feet and starts backing up to the cage, as he steps backwards he starts mouthing something, takes two hits to the face, hits the fence, and then takes the leg kick.
> 
> did anyone else notice machida loading up the tito knee during the flurry? As evans stood, he went to grab the back of his head with both hands, and ram the knee into the body, but decides to just continue to throw punches.


 
All due respect Ive watched the fight like 50 times after reading your post i watched that specific part lke 5 times and he isnt talkin shit.......the only moving his lips are doing is when lyoto is punching them.......:thumbsup:


----------



## Bob Pataki

coldcall420 said:


> All due respect Ive watched the fight like 50 times after reading your post i watched that specific part lke 5 times and he isnt talkin shit.......the only moving his lips are doing is when lyoto is punching them.......:thumbsup:


Watch at 1:10 left in round 2, when Machida is all over him. It definitely looks like he says "you hit like a" and then Machida whacks him again, just like Rashad described in his interview.

I'm not too bothered either way but I thought it was weird his mouth kept opening when he was close to being KO'd.


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy

coldcall420 said:


> All due respect Ive watched the fight like 50 times after reading your post i watched that specific part lke 5 times and he isnt talkin shit.......the only moving his lips are doing is when lyoto is punching them.......:thumbsup:


the only time I was able to see the actual smack talk was during the live broadcast on a huge screen. I too have been addicted to watching this fight over, and over, possibly 5 - 10 times a day the first week.

But each time I watch the fight online, it's just too hard to make out the smacktalk, whether it be due to lag, or low-res quality, but it's definitely there.

http://www.mmalinker.com/xExternal.php?vidid=15987

that's how I've been watching it, if you have a better quality of it, drop me a link.

or would someone find the smacktalk and gif it? lol.


----------



## Ricardinho

Whatever it was, Machida won convincingly!


----------



## coldcall420

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> the only time I was able to see the actual smack talk was during the live broadcast on a huge screen. I too have been addicted to watching this fight over, and over, possibly 5 - 10 times a day the first week.
> 
> But each time I watch the fight online, it's just too hard to make out the smacktalk, whether it be due to lag, or low-res quality, but it's definitely there.
> 
> http://www.mmalinker.com/xExternal.php?vidid=15987
> 
> that's how I've been watching it, if you have a better quality of it, drop me a link.
> 
> or would someone find the smacktalk and gif it? lol.


 
I watching it in recorded digital high definition on a 50 inch plasma in my bedroom..........

i know the part your talkin about but hell at that point in the fight rashad couldhve been talking too himself.........:thumbsup:


----------



## kgilstrap

name goes here said:


> This punch is the one that won the fight, the other punches afterwards were just wrapping things up quickly. The fact that Rashad was stepping foward at the time is a big deal, as Machida doesn't really have one punch knockout power otherwise.


I disagree, I rewatched it about 10 times and Rashad didn't have enough momentum coming forward to make that big of a difference. He had barely taken a step forward...I wouldn't say he was rushing in by any means. 

Point is Machida saw what he was going to try and do from a mile away and put a stop to it befoe he even had a chance. Clearly the better fighter and striker that night by a mile, same result will happen again if they fight.


----------



## coldcall420

name goes here said:


> This punch is the one that won the fight, the other punches afterwards were just wrapping things up quickly. The fact that Rashad was stepping foward at the time is a big deal, *as Machida doesn't really have one punch knockout power otherwise*.


 
Thats bullshit.....:thumbsup:


----------



## Anibus

It looks like he was stepping forward to throw a hook or jab. Machida timed it perfectly


----------



## swpthleg

I read 4 pages looking for a post like the one above. I don't care about whether or not Rashad was talking smack and when, which punch ended the fight, I just wanted to hear someone else appreciated the flawless timing as much as I did.


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy

coldcall420 said:


> I watching it in recorded digital high definition on a 50 inch plasma in my bedroom..........
> 
> i know the part your talkin about but hell at that point in the fight rashad couldhve been talking too himself.........:thumbsup:


He said in the interview what he was saying, and the fact that he spoke of being conscious while unconscious makes me believe him, and think he has strong willpower, and is a strong SOB in general.

I'm not easily offended, this IS a FIGHT. And it just adds to the "EPICNESS" of this title fight.

I've gained only respect for rashad since this fight.



swpthleg said:


> I read 4 pages looking for a post like the one above. I don't care about whether or not Rashad was talking smack and when, which punch ended the fight, I just wanted to hear someone else appreciated the flawless timing as much as I did.


This move is so beautiful, and deliberate it's scary

I said that on the 2nd page.

doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss all other aspects of this, does it?


----------



## Benge

I think it's cute when people try to make excuses for losses.




































































Wait, no I don't! It pisses me off! :angry08:


----------



## swpthleg

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> He said in the interview what he was saying, and the fact that he spoke of being conscious while unconscious makes me believe him, and think he has strong willpower, and is a strong SOB in general.
> 
> I'm not easily offended, this IS a FIGHT. And it just adds to the "EPICNESS" of this title fight.
> 
> I've gained only respect for rashad since this fight.
> 
> 
> 
> This move is so beautiful, and deliberate it's scary
> 
> I said that on the 2nd page.
> 
> doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss all other aspects of this, does it?


No it doesn't. Sorry, I'm a little scramble headed, there were bears running around my neighborhood earlier, a mommy and a baby, which scared the shiz out of me b/c 15 min before I heard that, I was walking my dog.


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy

swpthleg said:


> No it doesn't. Sorry, I'm a little scramble headed, there were bears running around my neighborhood earlier, a mommy and a baby, which scared the shiz out of me b/c 15 min before I heard that, I was walking my dog.


yea, that sounds a little intense. :thumb02:


----------



## TERMINATOR

Anibus said:


> It looks like he was stepping forward to throw a hook or jab. Machida timed it perfectly


that he did that he did


----------



## vandalian

Ricardinho said:


> Whatever it was, Machida won convincingly!


This.


To say Machida doesn't have one-punch knockout power _otherwise_ is pretty silly. How can you possibly know or prove that that?

Rashad was beaten and beaten badly. He's a really good fighter, but he wasn't the better man that night. No excuses necessary.


----------



## name goes here

vandalian said:


> This.
> 
> 
> To say Machida doesn't have one-punch knockout power _otherwise_ is pretty silly. How can you possibly know or prove that that?
> 
> Rashad was beaten and beaten badly. He's a really good fighter, but he wasn't the better man that night. No excuses necessary.


Who is making excuses? The best evidence of Machida not having one punch knockout power otherwise is how many of his fights have gone to decision. Machida isn't a Chuck or Rampage type who can ko people with ease, it's a measure of his skill that he times his punches well to get people as they are moving in - and ko them that way.

I'm just saying Rushing him plays into his strengths - and that he doesn't otherwise have the ko power of Chuck (back in the day), Rampage, etc etc. It's not an insult to Machida, though many here seem to think so. I'm just saying he is a brainy rather than a brawny fighter


----------



## kgilstrap

But the fact remains you can't state he doesn't have one punch knockout power. Yes, he doesn't have the power of a Chuck Liddel or Shane Carwin, but like you stated above, he is very accurate, and when hit on the button, your out, with one punch.


----------



## Evo

coldcall420 said:


> I watching it in recorded digital high definition on a 50 inch plasma in my bedroom..........
> 
> i know the part your talkin about but hell at that point in the fight rashad couldhve been talking too himself.........:thumbsup:



Except you're forgetting the part where *Rashad* himself *said he was trash talking before he got knocked out*. I guess you're saying Rashad is a liar?


----------



## vandalian

name goes here said:


> Who is making excuses? The best evidence of Machida not having one punch knockout power otherwise is how many of his fights have gone to decision. Machida isn't a Chuck or Rampage type who can ko people with ease, it's a measure of his skill that he times his punches well to get people as they are moving in - and ko them that way.
> 
> I'm just saying Rushing him plays into his strengths - and that he doesn't otherwise have the ko power of Chuck (back in the day), Rampage, etc etc. It's not an insult to Machida, though many here seem to think so. I'm just saying he is a brainy rather than a brawny fighter


Fair enough. And no, he isn't Chuck or Rampage. But saying he is incapable of knocking another guy out is kind of like saying another fighter can't submit anyone, based on the fact that the fighter usually wins by decision or TKO.


----------



## SpoKen

Machida may be gaining knockout power he never had in his recent fights. He started concentrating on strength training a little bit before the Silva fight if I recall correctly.

With all that technique and now strength, he could become a KO artist. Rashad Evans has a monster chin, he took a Liddell shot flush on the chin and he didn't even faze him to much.

Machida knocked out a grounded Silva but he has a pretty decent chin as well. It took maybe.. what.. 25 shots to finally shut down Rashad who has only been rocked once in his life by Jardine?

Machida's next fight with Shogun may very well end by KO, and we all know Shogun has a great chin.


----------



## thrshr01

Spoken812 said:


> Machida may be gaining knockout power he never had in his recent fights.


I agree :thumbsup: 

His last two fights weren't fluke/flash knockouts where the other fighters recovered quickly after the stoppage. They they were out for a long time.


----------



## coldcall420

Evo said:


> Except you're forgetting the part where *Rashad* himself *said he was trash talking before he got knocked out*. I guess you're saying Rashad is a liar?


 
yeah thats what Im sayin.....a showboater would never do that....try to save face....:confused05:


----------



## CornbreadBB

Has to be...hands down....Rob Emerson. From his devastating leg kicks to his knocking people out laying down skills, there is just no one that can hold a flame to this guy. Do not even get me started on his looks (so hawt)...I dare you...I ******* DARE YOU to name one better fighter that has ever come out of TUF or is even in the UFC at this moment. You guys watch, you're all concerned about Mir/Lesnar when in reality, Robby will be come the heavyweight champion in a couple of months.


----------



## The Lone Wolf

CornbreadBB said:


> Has to be...hands down....Rob Emerson. From his devastating leg kicks to his knocking people out laying down skills, there is just no one that can hold a flame to this guy. Do not even get me started on his looks (so hawt)...I dare you...I ******* DARE YOU to name one better fighter that has ever come out of TUF or is even in the UFC at this moment. You guys watch, you're all concerned about Mir/Lesnar when in reality, Robby will be come the heavyweight champion in a couple of months.


Corey Hill. Nobody can break a leg like him!


----------



## the ultimate

Andy Wang has got to be up there.


----------



## looney liam

i dunno man, andy wang and gabe ruediger are up there too. the only reason they were let go was because dana was concerned for his fighters safety. emerson stayed because of his crazy charisma and pulling power.


----------



## Evil Ira

Kalib Starnes. That guy could run for miles.


----------



## Godzuki

Emerson's greatness has been proved time and time again. It's futile and unfair to compare other fighters to him.


----------



## diablo5597

Rob Emerson. It's BS that he hasn't been given a title shot yet. He will hold the belt soon.


----------



## hellholming

Gabe Ruediger for sure.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

Emerson wasn't on TUF, TUF was on Emerson..raise01:


----------



## dudeabides

This is not even a fair question. Unbelievable. You should just ask who is the second most talent TUF alum, _after _the rotten one.


----------



## King Koopa

forrest griffin, kenny florian, diego sanchez, or rashad evans


----------



## burke_p

AND NOW................









(joke- but who knows he could win)


----------



## elardo

Emerson would destroy all of those chumps with one hand. His legacy, as well as this forum constant will never fade away apparently.


----------



## The Dark Knight

These two.


----------



## D.P.

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Emerson wasn't on TUF, TUF was on Emerson..raise01:


:thumb02:



King Koopa said:


> forrest griffin, kenny florian, or diego sanchez


Emerson would whoop all of them with ease. It wouldn't even be close.



The Dark Knight said:


> These two.


I'm a big Evans fan, but even I know that The Rotten one will just destroy both him and CB.


----------



## CornbreadBB

*New Footage of Forrest Run....*

Holy shit! I bet you guys didn't see this part of the run...explains everything!







I just posted a comment in another thread basically saying the same thing, but I figured this was necessary.


----------



## Ace962

When I saw Griffin take off through the crowd after the fight, I kind of just shook my head and thought, "Wow, the puns and jokes are going to be ridiculous." This was pretty funny though, haha.

(That movie ******* owns, though.)


----------



## GMK13

"when i got tired, i slept. when i had to go, i went. When i got ktfo by anderson silva , I just ran!"


----------



## h2so4

Neither funny nor original.


----------



## RushFan

h2so4 said:


> Neither funny nor original.


I'm loving the brutality of some of the newbie posters. :thumbsup:


----------



## GMK13

yea it was joke. im guessing forrest was your boyfriend.


----------



## CornbreadBB

h2so4 said:


> Neither funny nor original.


Damnit dude, now you needa get a new chair, you got it all stained with your menstrual cycle.


----------



## h2so4

CornbreadBB said:


> Damnit dude, now you needa get a new chair, you got it all stained with your menstrual cycle.


That is cause I took yours.. wont happen again.


----------



## Simmi

h2so4 said:


> That is cause I took yours.. wont happen again.


Oh SNAP!


----------



## CornbreadBB

h2so4 said:


> That is cause I took yours.. wont happen again.


You took my menstrual cycle (which I doubt, since I don't get mine till next week anyway) or my chair....or you had sex with me and that's why you took my menstrual cycle. I'm not entirely sure what's going on here....but you were a lousy ****.


----------



## h2so4

CornbreadBB said:


> You took my menstrual cycle (which I doubt, since I don't get mine till next week anyway) or my chair....or you had sex with me and that's why you took my menstrual cycle. I'm not entirely sure what's going on here....but you were a lousy ****.


Oh God, here we go.. :sarcastic12:


----------



## RushFan

h2so4 said:


> Oh God, here we go.. :sarcastic12:


How do you have red rep? That must be remedied.


----------



## h2so4

I was never popular in High School either.. something about speaking my mind..


----------



## name goes here

*If there was only 2 weight divisions*

If there was only 2 weight divisions
Welterweight and Heavy weight
Rank the fighters in order of success against everyone else in these weight classes

In my opinion:

HW;

1 Brock
2 Anderson
3 Lyoto
4 Nog 
5 Still thinking...

WW;

1 GSP
2 Penn
3 Still thinking...


----------



## geoff0011

HW:
Brock (Want to say Lyoto, but until he properly defends his title, and not just against Shogun, I won't list him)

WW: 
GSP (Unless Silva was able to cut to WW, then Silva)


----------



## jennathebenda

HW:
Brock
Lyoto
Rampage
Nog
Mir
Silva
Carwin
Couture
Evans
Chiek Kongo

WW:
Bj Penn
GSP
Fitch 
Kosheck
Hughes
Karo
Alves
Anthony Johnson
Ken Flo
Diego Sanchez


The HW and LHW divisions are stacked so I feel sorry for all MW not named Silva/Henderson.

For WW and LW the best isnt necesarily in the UFC so the champions arent going to have much trouble. Bring in a few of those Dream and Sengoku fighters the UFC LW division could become its best.


----------



## name goes here

Rampage would beat Nog? 

Didn't Alves already beat Koscheck?


----------



## jennathebenda

I would return the favor and pick apart your list, but I cant cause there is none. 

I think Rampage could he would be at natural weight. It would be a good fight.

I think in a rematch Alves<Kos.


----------



## name goes here

HW:
Brock
Lyoto
A.Silva
Nog
Mir
Evans
Rampage
Carwin
Gonzaga
Cain
Henderson
Nate Marquadt

WW:
GSP
Bj Penn
Fitch
Alves
Diego Sanchez
Anthony Johnson
Kosheck
Ken Flo
Nick Diaz
Hughes


----------



## Danm2501

You rate Gonzaga higher than Dan Henderson? Gonzaga's 4-3 in his last 7 UFC fights and hasn't really beaten anyone of note, bar Cro Cop, but even he wasn't in any sort of form at that stage. Yet Henderson has beaten Franklin, Bisping, Wanderlei and Belfort in his last 7 fights. Also took Quinton Rampage Jackson to a decision, and won a round against Anderson Silva before getting subbed in the 2nd. I'd back Hendo, and probably Marquardt and Velasquez to beat Gonzaga.


----------



## QuackAttack

Lol at Gonazga being on your list.


----------



## name goes here

Danm2501 said:


> You rate Gonzaga higher than Dan Henderson? Gonzaga's 4-3 in his last 7 UFC fights and hasn't really beaten anyone of note, bar Cro Cop, but even he wasn't in any sort of form at that stage. Yet Henderson has beaten Franklin, Bisping, Wanderlei and Belfort in his last 7 fights. Also took Quinton Rampage Jackson to a decision, and won a round against Anderson Silva before getting subbed in the 2nd. I'd back Hendo, and probably Marquardt and Velasquez to beat Gonzaga.


Rate is the wrong word. I just think that Gonzaga would beat Henderson if they fought, purely due to Gonzaga's size. Hendo is a better fighter accounting for the weight difference, but in a world with only two weight classes, Gonzaga and Hendo in the same cage, Gonzaga would win.

Post your list?


----------



## name goes here

*Gray Maynard > Roger Huerta?*

According to the betting odds... I thought the reverse though, what does Maynard do that Guida doesn't do better?


----------



## wukkadb

Everything? Maynard has better hands, _way_ better wrestling, and he is way bigger. Guida has better cardio than Maynard, but that's it; Guida couldn't take down Maynard if his life depended on it. Maynard, on the other hand, can take down virtually anyone in the LW division at will... didn't you see him versus Frankie Edgar?

I'd say technically in the LW division it goes like this for wrestlers:

1) Maynard
2) Edgar
3) Sherk/Bj... hard to say since Sherk didn't try to take Bj down.


----------



## ean6789

wukkadb said:


> Everything? Maynard has better hands, _way_ better wrestling, and he is way bigger. Guida has better cardio than Maynard, but that's it; Guida couldn't take down Maynard if his life depended on it. Maynard, on the other hand, can take down virtually anyone in the LW division at will... didn't you see him versus Frankie Edgar?
> 
> I'd say technically in the LW division it goes like this for wrestlers:
> 
> 1) Maynard
> 2) Edgar
> 3) Sherk/Bj... hard to say since Sherk didn't try to take Bj down.


This. Btw wtf is it that Guida is good at besides having good cardio? His supposed strength is wrestling but honestly theres numerous ppl that are WAY better LW wrestlers then him. His jitz and striking are piss poor. How Diego earned a title shot by barely beating this gatekeeper blows my mind.


----------



## name goes here

Jim Miller, Rich Clementi, Frankie Edgar. Not super impressive, so not that hard for Maynard to look good against them.


----------



## xbrokenshieldx

name goes here said:


> Jim Miller, Rich Clementi, Frankie Edgar. Not super impressive, so not that hard for Maynard to look good against them.


Sarcasm?


----------



## Sekou

name goes here said:


> Jim Miller, Rich Clementi, Frankie Edgar. Not super impressive, so not that hard for Maynard to look good against them.


not super impressive at all


----------



## Negative1

If you are a gambling man I suggest you throw money down on Maynard. He will be able to control Roger wherever the fight goes and will definately end in a UD for Maynard.


----------



## jennathebenda

Huerta is hyped up a little bit to much. Maynard will pull this one out in the 3rd round or just a clear cut UD.


----------



## Negative1

jennathebenda said:


> Huerta is hyped up a little bit to much. Maynard will pull this one out in the 3rd round or just a clear cut UD.


Hi my girl :bye01:

Make all your picks after me and all is well.


----------



## Rygu

Negative1 said:


> If you are a gambling man I suggest you throw money down on Maynard. He will be able to control Roger wherever the fight goes and will definately end in a UD or Maynard.


Couldn't have said it better. 

I personally think the only LW who Maynard doesn't beat right now is BJ. 

Huerta has nothing really on Gray. He's not taking him down, he won't outstrike him, and can't sub him. His only possible advantage is stamina but it won't be by much.


----------



## TraMaI

wukkadb said:


> Everything? Maynard has better hands, _way_ better wrestling, and he is way bigger. Guida has better cardio than Maynard, but that's it; Guida couldn't take down Maynard if his life depended on it. Maynard, on the other hand, can take down virtually anyone in the LW division at will... didn't you see him versus Frankie Edgar?
> 
> I'd say technically in the LW division it goes like this for wrestlers:
> 
> 1) Maynard
> 2) Edgar
> 3) Sherk/Bj... hard to say since Sherk didn't try to take Bj down.


Tyson Griffin?????


----------



## GKY

Maynard is as good or an even better wrestler than GSP. He also has the highest precentage of successful take downs in the UFC. He has never been even close to gassing. He outstruck Miller and Edgar, which is impressive.

As a matter of fact, in the Edgar fight he showed he is better then Edgar everywhere. Edgar pretty much just showed he is better than Sherk everywhere. 

The only person at LW that I give odds against Maynard is BJ, and in a few years I think Maynard will be the favorite.


----------



## AceCombat

rygu said:


> Couldn't have said it better.
> 
> I personally think the only LW who Maynard doesn't beat right now is BJ.
> 
> Huerta has nothing really on Gray. He's not taking him down, he won't outstrike him, and can't sub him. His only possible advantage is stamina but it won't be by much.


I COMPLETELY agree. Barring Penn, I don't think there's a fighter in the LW division that can stop Maynard's take downs let alone take *him* down - I don't don't even think Penn could take Maynard to the mat. Huerta, though likable, is goin to come in rusty and is going to be controlled by Maynard; He may have nicer kicks, but they'll only make him vulnerable to the take down if necessary.

That being said...

Maynard vs. Sanchez!!!


----------



## Davisty69

If maynard keeps evolving, I could see him being a LW GSP. His wrestling is second to none, his striking is good, and he is thoroughly athletic.

He is the next in line for a title fight IMO.


----------



## LCRaiders

jennathebenda said:


> Huerta is hyped up a little bit to much. Maynard will pull this one out in the 3rd round or just a clear cut UD.


I don't think Huerta is a little too hyped up. He is a very talented fighter but I still don't see Huerta beating Maynard..

But I also don't see Maynard doing anything serious in the Lightweight divison..


----------



## Couchwarrior

Maynard has the best takedown success percentage in the UFC. Guida was winning the fight against Huerta until he fell into that choke, which he always seem to do, and apart from sub defense, Maynard also has better striking than Guida. I'm pretty sure he's going to beat Huerta.


----------



## Brutus

name goes here said:


> Jim Miller, Rich Clementi, Frankie Edgar. Not super impressive, so not that hard for Maynard to look good against them.


LOL, hope your being sarcastic, all great fighters especially Edgar.


----------



## CornbreadBB

*Americans We Has Finally Gotten Our Wish....*

Tomorrow night the UFC 103 Prelims will be aired free on Spike TV starting at 9 pm. Not sure if this has been posted, but I'm here often and haven't seen a mention of this. I guess that homely Dana White fellow has seent he light! WOOOO!!

(And yesh, I had to give the creator of SpikeTV a ton of Jew gold for this, so you better be happeh!)


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

Dana previously stated he will only be showing the prelims for this PPV. Otherwise, the prelims are an incentive for the ticket paying fan. 

I tend to agree with him on this. THe weigh ins, fighter met and greets, and the prelims should be something for the attending fan and to justify the price of the tickets.


----------



## The Horticulturist

:thumb04: stoked


----------



## 420atalon

I am guessing this has absolutely nothing to do with the Mayweather fight...


----------



## swpthleg

CornbreadBB said:


> Tomorrow night the UFC 103 Prelims will be aired free on Spike TV starting at 9 pm. Not sure if this has been posted, but I'm here often and haven't seen a mention of this. I guess that homely Dana White fellow has seent he light! WOOOO!!
> 
> (And yesh, I had to give the creator of SpikeTV a ton of Jew gold for this, so you better be happeh!)


Really, really, psyched.........wait, I won't be home. Maybe I can get the club to put on Spike.

Cornbread, next time you need Jew gold, hit me up, I think I have a little left. I did have to exchange some of it for killer boots (don't worry, I still didn't pay retail).


----------



## wukkadb

*cough* already been posted here.. yup, I beat ya.


----------



## Simmi

Isn't this just two fights to conveniently cover the start of the Mayweather fight?
Escudero/Miller and McFedries/Drwal.

Still not showing 6 fights.


----------



## CornbreadBB

swpthleg said:


> Really, really, psyched.........wait, I won't be home. Maybe I can get the club to put on Spike.
> 
> Cornbread, next time you need Jew gold, hit me up, I think I have a little left. I did have to exchange some of it for killer boots (don't worry, I still didn't pay retail).


No need for Jew gold lady....it's the New Year how are you going to the club on the New Year?! (I'm probably ordering Chinese food...I is good Jew?!) The club will probably play it, I got a bar to put on TUF 9 a couple of months ago. Of course I was too trashed to watch it but I remember yelling about something or other before I blacked out!



wukkadb said:


> *cough* already been posted here.. yup, I beat ya.


 BJ?


----------



## VolcomX311

:thumbsup:


----------



## Canadian Psycho

I propose the title of this thread be altered to read 'North Americans'.

I feel discriminated against


----------



## CornbreadBB

Canadian Psycho said:


> I propose the title of this thread be altered to read 'North Americans'.
> 
> I feel discriminated against


Sorry, I forgots Canada was just west of Brazil.


----------



## N1™

CornbreadBB said:


> Sorry, I forgots Canada was just west of Brazil.


----------



## LCRaiders

Its awesome that they are showing two of the prelims on Spike. Miller and Escudero are going to put on one hell of a fight


----------



## Gutz

Canadian Psycho said:


> I propose the title of this thread be altered to read 'North Americans'.
> 
> I feel discriminated against


Not to sound like a grammar freak, but switch has with have as well. Little things like that rub me the wrong way so easily :wink01:


----------



## csefcik

Perhaps the user should be required to take a grammer test? :confused05:


----------



## D.P.

Cool, I didn't know that, thanks CB. :thumbsup:


----------



## palmerboy

I'd like to see the mc fedries / drwal fight. I doubt they'll show them in Ireland though.


----------



## ZENKI1

George Bush dont like black peoples.


----------



## palmerboy

ESPN uk actually are showing this prelim live. its on for an hour at 2 am just the same time the mayweather show starts on sky sports. hmmm. Sound!


----------



## swpthleg

CornbreadBB said:


> No need for Jew gold lady....it's the New Year how are you going to the club on the New Year?! (I'm probably ordering Chinese food...I is good Jew?!) The club will probably play it, I got a bar to put on TUF 9 a couple of months ago. Of course I was too trashed to watch it but I remember yelling about something or other before I blacked out!
> 
> 
> 
> BJ?


I had the wrong night; we're staying in tonight due to the activity you saw on FB in the pics from last night. So i'm psyched.

Happy New Year!! Do Prada make yarmulkes?


----------



## CornbreadBB

swpthleg said:


> I had the wrong night; we're staying in tonight due to the activity you saw on FB in the pics from last night. So i'm psyched.
> 
> Happy New Year!! Do Prada make yarmulkes?


I wash going to ask you that lady. Shoutbox plz? Oh and l'shannah tovah....Ery is coming home 2night so I'll ask him if they make Prada yarmulke.


----------



## swpthleg

L'Shana Tovah, next year in Jerusalem, uh, who drank all my f*cking Mogen David?


----------



## name goes here

*Cain V > Ben R?*

According to the betting odds.
Damn I just realised I'm getting Ben R and Roy Nelson mixed up.

But still I think Ben R should have the advantage over Cain V


----------



## godson

I'm going for Cain he dominated Cheick Kongo and his chin is incredible wouldn't be surprised if he knocks Ben out..


----------



## LCRaiders

godson said:


> I'm going for Cain he dominated Cheick Kongo and his chin is incredible wouldn't be surprised if he knocks Ben out..


His chin is incredible?

Did you watch the beginning of the first, second, and third rounds of the Kongo fight?

He got caught and almost dropped every time..


----------



## Danomac

I think Rothwell wins this one. Much more well rounded than Kongo and much more experience than Cain.

C'mon, the dude was the champ over a well known company. Give him some credit.


----------



## joshua7789

Cain is a cardio freak for a heavyweight. Rothwell started to fade towards the end of the Arlovski fight, Cain puts a lot more pressure on people then the pitbull does. Cain will wear him out and take a UD or finish him in the third.


----------



## name goes here

Hmm Ben R's last fight looked v lackluster


----------



## Soakked

I'd pick Ben.


----------



## N1™

LCRaiders said:


> His chin is incredible?
> 
> Did you watch the beginning of the first, second, and third rounds of the Kongo fight?
> 
> He got caught and almost dropped every time..


Cain got hit it the face by a 6,4 240lb's of muscle former muay thai world champion and still went on to dominate or even tool him ( kongo ). So the notion that Cain has a bad chin is ludacris, bad headmovement and guard maybe , but no , he does not have a bad chin.

oh and cain beating ben is the safest bet on the card


----------



## poundedout45

I'd have to go with Cain on this one. He's obviously got a good chin. He also has some amazing tds. Plus, the UFC has big plans for Cain, so it is unlikely they'd put him against someone they think would pose an enormous threat to him.


----------



## nyc05

Not sure who I'm going with in this fight. Probably Cain, but I'm just not sure yet.

As for the chin argument, Cain's chin is suspect because he got rocked extremely hard by Kongo multiple times, BUT he was able to recover quickly. In other words, his chin is a bit questionable, but his recovery time is excellent. Two very different things.


----------



## Servatose

N1™;1002689 said:


> Cain got hit it the face by a 6,4 240lb's of muscle former muay thai world champion and still went on to dominate or even tool him ( kongo ). So the notion that Cain has a bad chin is ludacris, bad headmovement and guard maybe , but no , he does not have a bad chin.
> 
> oh and cain beating ben is the safest bet on the card


Exactly this. I don't understand why people seem to think getting dropped is indicative of a weak chin. Considering the circumstances he was dropped in, if he wasn't dropped I'd say he wasn't even human. Even the best get dropped, it's recovering from it that defines whether or not your chin is solid. Cain's chin and wits are definitely top notch to be taking shots from a guy like Kongo, and moving in to take control of the fight.


----------



## Toxic

Cain didn't show and impressive recovery he as a wrestler instinctively went for the TD and because Kongo cant wrestle and has a pathetic ground game Velasquez got all the time in the world to recover. Those TD's were pathetic and will never take down anybody with even remotely decent wrestling. Rothwell is much more well rounded than Kongo but still hits hard and has the tools to take the weaknesses that Kongo exposed and utilize them to put Velasquez away.


----------



## N1™

Toxic said:


> Cain didn't show and impressive recovery he as a wrestler instinctively went for the TD and because Kongo cant wrestle and has a pathetic ground game Velasquez got all the time in the world to recover. Those TD's were pathetic and will never take down anybody with even remotely decent wrestling. Rothwell is much more well rounded than Kongo but still hits hard and has the tools to take the weaknesses that Kongo exposed and utilize them to put Velasquez away.


ill bet you all my points that cain wins


----------



## Toxic

I cant take all your points man, it just wouldn't be fair to you


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

Rothwell will be on his back all night. I even look for Cain to finish him on the ground.


----------



## Toxic

Cain hardly bruised Kongo after 3 rounds of GnP, Rothwell has got chin, Velasquez is not gonna finish him.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

And Tyson Griffin, barring one finish against a can, went to a decision in multiple UFC fights and Hermes Franca had only been stopped once previously in 26 fights.

Shit happens amigo.


----------



## BGDDYKWL

I was surprised at these odds when I stumbled upon them earlier. If Cain's chin isn't suspect then his stand-up defense is atrocious. Being rocked on more than one occasion in your previous fight against a gatekeeper isn't something to hang your hat on (Kongo basically dropped him in under 15 seconds in both round 1 and 2). And granted Cain dominated and took Kongo down at will after the initial shots, but we all know Kongo's wrestling is absolutely terrible. An undersized solid wrestler isn't going to do a whole lot in the HW division right now. I'd take Rothwell here at +230 (or whatever it is).


----------



## Soojooko

Toxic said:


> I cant take all your points man, it just wouldn't be fair to you


Come on Toxic. Take the bet.


----------



## SideWays222

nyc05 said:


> Not sure who I'm going with in this fight. Probably Cain, but I'm just not sure yet.
> 
> As for the chin argument, Cain's chin is suspect because he got rocked extremely hard by Kongo multiple times, BUT he was able to recover quickly. In other words, his chin is a bit questionable, but his recovery time is excellent. Two very different things.


What freaking person would not get rocked by the shots he took?? If a person the size of Kongo hits your clean in the chin and you get knocked out then you have a bad chin??? fucin silly.... is Kongo a small dude or something so its funny that he has knockout power??


----------



## name goes here

Cain > Kongo ! but he got dropped
Ben < AA ! but AA is good and he went 3 rounds

Kongo does finish fights on the feet quickly - even if he hasn't had the opportunity much because he loses on the ground so much. Anyway point is he hits hard.

Will Rothwell be able to keep the distance? He's not that great on his feet

Also Cain finished his last can quicker than Rothwell.

Cain might only have cardio and aggression - but that was enough for Shogun once upon a time. 

I say Cain now


----------



## joshua7789

Another thing about Cain is that he comes out a lot better everytime he fights. He is like Brock Lesnar in that way. I personally feel like the Kongo fight probably taught Cain quite a bit about himself and showed him exactly where he needs to improve. Cain is going to look like a beast in this fight.


----------



## Freiermuth

Should be a good fight, but I'm going w/ Ben. I think Ben will be able to use his size and experience well enough to avoid some TD's and eventually land something to rock Cain and then GnP him.


----------



## BWoods

I have Rothwell taking the fight by decision. Ben is a much better wrestler than Kongo but doesn't have near the knockout power. If Kongo couldn't knock Cain out then I doubt big Ben does. 

The only way I see Cain winning is by taking Rothwell down and somehow landing in full mount or crusifix and just pounding away for three rounds. Cain hasn't displayed any KO power but he has plenty of wrestling technique to be able to control the heavyweights.

This fight is going to be more of a cardio war than anything. Both guys are going to have to use wrestling and striking pretty much nonstop to beat one another. Rothwell has some pretty decent cardio, don't let his loss to Arlovski fool you. Getting pounded on by a dangerous striker for 3 rounds takes a lot out of you. Cain will push the pace in this fight and has a very good chin. The shots he took from Kongo were ridiculous, those would put anyone to sleep. Cain displayed a lot of heart and great instinct to survive being rocked so many times.


----------



## Toxic

SideWays222 said:


> What freaking person would not get rocked by the shots he took?? If a person the size of Kongo hits your clean in the chin and you get knocked out then you have a bad chin??? fucin silly.... is Kongo a small dude or something so its funny that he has knockout power??


Who else has Kongo dropped at will that easily? Yeah he is a big guy and can knock out damn near anyone with one shot but that does not mean every single punch has that ability, the amount of punches thrown to times he dropped Cain ratio is ridiculous. face it Cain is extremely talented as is Andrei Arlovski unfortunately his chin is a little suspect at best.


----------



## name goes here

Well Ben didn't take advantage of AA's chin. AA's stand up is better than Cain's of course, but still


----------



## joshua7789

name goes here said:


> Well Ben didn't take advantage of AA's chin. AA's stand up is better than Cain's of course, but still


I may be wrong here (havent watched that fight in awhile) but didnt Ben land some pretty clean shots on Arlovski during that fight? If your going to say that Cain has a suspect chin then you could also say that Rothwells power is also fairly suspect. I dont see Ben dropping Cain.


----------



## SideWays222

Toxic said:


> Who else has Kongo dropped at will that easily? Yeah he is a big guy and can knock out damn near anyone with one shot but that does not mean every single punch has that ability, the amount of punches thrown to times he dropped Cain ratio is ridiculous. face it Cain is extremely talented as is Andrei Arlovski unfortunately his chin is a little suspect at best.


Why would i face that when its plain out wrong. Did you even watch the fight??? the Shot he took at the start of every round was enough to knock most people out. Cain got Rocked recovered and took him down. Comparing his chin to AA is nothing more then silly.


----------



## Toxic

Some coincidence that Kongo was able to land a knock out punch that would knock _anybody_ out every time they engaged standing despite the fact that he hasnt had even remotely that kind of success against anybody else he has fought anywhere. You do realize Kongo had Velasquez visably rocked hard 3 or 4 times and only landed like 5 decent shots the whole fight?


----------



## Xerxes

I too thought Cain's chin looked pretty suspect against Kongo (though his recovery looked very good). Kongo isn't a power puncher and he basically dropped him at will. 

I think it also has to do with Cain's lackluster striking defense. Hope he fixes this for his next fight, as I want to see him fight the winner of Brock/Carwin.


----------



## name goes here

Kongo has knocked people out - only cans its true, but he looked even bigger this time.


----------



## DropKicker

Toxic said:


> Cain hardly bruised Kongo after 3 rounds of GnP, Rothwell has got chin, Velasquez is not gonna finish him.


Somebody talk to this guy please....:confused03:


here's your boy spitting out blood after he was molested by Cain Velasquez...


----------



## Xerxes

name goes here said:


> Kongo has knocked people out - only cans its true, but he looked even bigger this time.


I like Cheick but he hasn't KOd anyone worth mentioning. 

Bigger? He weighed in at 233 lbs @ UFC 92, 232 @ UFC 97 and 230 @ UFC 99. :confused02:


----------



## coldcall420

*Kimbo Slice training jits at ATT; willing to try light heavyweight*



> _“I’m training at American Top Team. I’m a hard puncher trying to learn the ground game. You can do a lot, but you can’t master anything in two years. In mixed martial arts, the more you roll the more you learn. It’s something I’m working on. I’m a heavyweight, but if the promoters want me to come down, heck yeah I’d give it a try.” _​Former YouTube sensation and Ultimate Fighter (TUF) attraction Kimbo Slice heads to American Top Team (ATT) after completing a tenth season on the Spike TV reality show opposite former IFL champion, Roy Nelson, UFC veteran Wes Sims and several former NFL players, among others. Will the artist formerly known as Kevin Ferguson prove Dana White (who predicted he would never win a TUF show back in Oct. 2008 when he first made the bold offer) and all the other doubters wrong — or is he too green to hang with the big boys? Don’t be surprised to see one last hurrah from Slice at the TUF 10 Finale — and maybe even more if he wins on Dec. 5. Are you ready for more Kimbo in 2010?


 
Im sure he will make a major impact in the LHW division.....:confused05:

CC420


----------



## Chileandude

that sounds like Kimbo vs Jardine


----------



## Fieos

Kimbo vs Houston!


----------



## BWoods

Fieos said:


> Kimbo vs Houston!


Setup for the first double KTFO in UFC history? Two power punchers with glass jaws. Heh

I think Kimbo could be very dangerous at LHW. If he's able to keep his power at that weight he could really knock some heads around. It seems he's taking the ground game seriously so that's a plus in my book. He just can't let his ego get in the way like it did with Bas. You can't disregard the ground game and he can't get away with rushing people from the opening bell. Look at Johnathan Goulet for example. Always rushes out and always gets KO'd.


----------



## Baby Jay D.

Kimbos a pretty small HW and with the MONSTERS in that division now he should move down. Don't think he'd make much of an impact in either division though.


----------



## DrHouse

Signs aren't looking too great for wednesday night then are they? Don't think hes do any better at LHW to be honest, it's not like anyones game plan would change. I guess if he can keep his power the same then maybe it would help just because he could hit harder and it would be more difficult to keep a tight grip on a limb of his to submit him or even just keep him on the ground, I guess it would be worth a shot. Also considering the current influx of wrestlers into the UFC HW division (Lesnar, Carwin, Velasquez), it might not be a bad idea.


----------



## Colmax

Kimbo is probably best to move down to LHW where his size matches up a little better. I am a little worried in how he is going to lose it because the guy looks to have very little body fat. Wonder if he loses much power. I am sure he will gain speed, though.


----------



## LCRaiders

I'm a Kimbo supporter but I just can't see him doing anything special in the LHW division


----------



## MedicWanteD

If Kimbo didn't have the drive to learn the ground game when he was with Bas. Do you think he'll have the drive to do the work to get to 205? I'm guessing he weighs around 235. He will have to lose 30lbs. and combined with his age he will gas near the end of the first round if pushed.

**edit** there are also too many ppl in the 205 division that are really good on the ground.

Kimbo is the Tank Abbott of this UFC generation.


----------



## wukkadb

Awesome camp to work bjj at, I gotta say. ATT has like 15+ black belts, including Marcelo Garcia.


----------



## alizio

moreso then BJJ which is obv a great tool for Kimbo to have, he really needs a Chuck like TDD to have any shot in any division. I think it might be easier to teach him TDD then expect him to learn a high level of Jitz because realistically his career is starting very late at a very low level technique wise, his window to make $ and fight is very small.


----------



## Belfort

Kimbo's arms look like they weigh 205 alone.. but i think LHW would suit him alot better for sure.


----------



## M.C

There are far less good striker at HW, and we all know Kimbo can't win on the ground. 

If he moves to LHW, he's going to get killed by pretty much everyone, as they all have better striking than he does.


----------



## coldcall420

*Rampage Goes Deeper Into Why He Retired From The UFC*

_



"The bottom line is I’m thinking, ‘What should I do?’ My family is standing behind me 100% and my kids are too young to even care. All my kids know is I’m always gone and I’m not spending much time with them and I even asked my dog how does he feel and my dog said, ‘Who the hell are you, I don’t know even know you no more. I don’t even know you, why you even talking to me?’ My dog just looked at me, licked his nose, lit up a fart and walked out my room." 
"Everybody knows I’m doing this A-Team movie and now I’ve got a lot of other movie offers and it’s for big money. So I’m thinking, ‘What should I do? Should I let an organisation disrespect me, tell me what I can’t do, make loads of money off me and call me a baby?’ I love the fans. I really do love the fans and I’m thinking, ‘Should I go out there and give them what they wanna see?’ The fans buy the Pay-Per-Views, they give you the strength to go out there and put on a show because their cheering for you but I’ve grown to like making movies. This movie is really fun, I get to shoot people and that something I’ve never done before because I’m too nice of a guy. But every time I shoot somebody I see Rashad’s face over and over, like I get to shoot Rashad thousands of times and it’s fun. I get to beat people up. I can put anybody’s face on them and beat the hell out of them. 
"People are coming up to me with all these other movies and I’m thinking, ‘Man, do I really wanna bust my ass in training every day, have all these injuries, worries about whether I look good and whether I’m going to win?’ I don’t have that with the movies, I already know what’s gonna happen, it’s scripted so there’s just no worries. At the end of the day I go home, I can just kick back and enjoy myself. But I can’t lie, my heart is with fighting. When I meet my good fans on the street and they say, ‘Oh man, you’re the reason why I got into the UFC’ or I see a fan wearing my t-shirt it, means a lot to me. It means a lot to me that the fans like m e and my fighting style and I really respect that. That’s a part of fighting that would keep me there and keep me motivated."

Click to expand...

_http://www.mmanews.com/ufc/Rampage-Goes-Deeper-Into-Why-He-Retired-From-The-UFC.html

The movie roles will dry up quick....he'll be back!!!!

CC420:thumbsup:


----------



## KOMIRKO

AWWWWWW SH*T. I didn't know he signed up to do the "A-team" movie. This sucks cause I really like Rampage. Win or lose that guy is great to watch. He improves any MMA card that he is listed to fight on... hell, even when he's not fighting his commentary is hilarious.
But I'm afraid that he might make a crappy movie or 2 and then become a "joke" or even a parody of himself.
I'll always be a fan of the guy... I just don't want to see him make an a$$ of himself.

I doubt anyone could argue that Rampage in not great for the sport.


----------



## H-Deep

He will be back! Maybe a break from the sport will do him good, id like to see him fight in the ufc but i guess hes gotta do what hes gotta do


----------



## tecnotut

Rampage's retirement is Couture _redux_.


----------



## dafunguru

Like someone on some interview said (i forgot who, no seriously, i forgot) he's just pulling a trick outta Tito's hat for more money and stuff.


----------



## Darkwraith

Like I said before, he will be back as soon as the movie roles start drying up because he doesn't have the UFC juggernaut behind him hyping him up...


----------



## DahStoryTella

honestly think he'll be back sooner or later, but if he's forreal then props to dude.


----------



## vandalian

tecnotut said:


> Rampage's retirement is Couture _redux_.


Din-ding-ding. 

We have a winner.

You, and everyone else who said the same thing.


----------



## Davisty69

I agree with ColdCall, he will quickly be religated to B & C level movies and will be chomping at the bit for another big payday with the UFC.


----------



## LCRaiders

Hopefully Rampage will be back but I guess it's good to see that family is his first priority :thumbsup: Much respect for that..


----------



## streetpunk08

coldcall420 said:


> _
> 
> http://www.mmanews.com/ufc/Rampage-Goes-Deeper-Into-Why-He-Retired-From-The-UFC.html
> 
> The movie roles will dry up quick....he'll be back!!!!
> 
> CC420:thumbsup:_


_

I don't know if and how many roles Rampage has been offered but from what I can gather he got this A-Team role because he does a good Mr.T impression, Unless theres a Rocky 3 remake in the works I think Mr. Jackson is in for a rude awakening. 



I just don't see him having too much acting talent, i'm a film buff and just because he acts like a goofball on camera doesn't mean he can act in major motion pictures, Rampage is a very emotional guy, he will fight again

My two cents_


----------



## joshua7789

I think there is a chance that he might be gone for good. Even people who make B and C level movies make good money. Maybe he really doesnt want to fight anymore.


----------



## rdwj

I love Rampage as a fighter, but he's got some SERIOUS work to do if he wants to be an actor. He's really funny, but he doesn't speak very well - fast and a bit garbled. 

He'll be back.


----------



## hvendlor

LCRaiders said:


> Hopefully Rampage will be back but I guess it's good to see that family is his first priority :thumbsup: Much respect for that..


Yea because movie stars are home home every night to tuck their kids in bed, never away on location for months at a time. 
:thumb02:


----------



## shatterproof

can't blame him for that reasoning. UFC needs to consider ways to hold onto fighters with other prospects. Likeness profits, expanded sponsorship opportunities, etc.

Even if he were to run over a million prego ladies... always gonna have love and respect for 'Page. Come to think of it... Rampage is my favorite form of birth control.


----------



## Wookie

It sounds like he misses fighting. After the A- team movie bombs and the critics tear Rampage to shreds and his offers dissappear into thin air, he'll think twice and realize that he is a fighter.


----------



## The Dude Abides

Am i the only one that thinks he might be able to carve a nice little niche for himself in the movie business? No leading man obviously. But think Army movies, combat movies, he can play the snarling bad guy. I could even see him playing a character in a comedy, think OJ Simspon in Naked Gun. 

Hell, i think i'm nmore interested in his acting career at this stage.


----------



## alizio

One of my favorite fighters, cant hate on him whatever path he chooses, he doesnt owe the fans a thing, whenever you saw the name Rampage Jackson on the card, you were almost assured a decent fight, and he always left his heart in that Octogan/Ring. If his heart calls him in other directions he should follow it, i have a feeling it will lead back to the Octogan anyways


----------



## swpthleg

shatterproof said:


> can't blame him for that reasoning. UFC needs to consider ways to hold onto fighters with other prospects. Likeness profits, expanded sponsorship opportunities, etc.
> 
> Even if he were to run over a million prego ladies... always gonna have love and respect for 'Page. Come to think of it... Rampage is my favorite form of birth control.


Am I going to hell if that made me ROTFL??

Likeness profits, do you mean as in, Rampage cereal like in Japan? I'd be all over that.


----------



## BrianRClover

KOMIRKO said:


> AWWWWWW SH*T. I didn't know he signed up to do the "A-team" movie. This sucks cause I really like Rampage. Win or lose that guy is great to watch. He improves any MMA card that he is listed to fight on... hell, even when he's not fighting his commentary is hilarious.
> But I'm afraid that he might make a crappy movie or 2 and then become a "joke" or even a parody of himself.
> I'll always be a fan of the guy... I just don't want to see him make an a$$ of himself.
> 
> I doubt anyone could argue that Rampage in not great for the sport.


I could argue that. He's a chain wearing wannabe thug with a smile on his face. Rampage represents everything the MMA uneducated think about the sport.
Just an off the street thug who can throw his fist and is out to hurt people. They don't see an athlete, they say a guy who gets drunks and goes on "Rampages" in his escalade nearly killing people in the process.
Personally I hope hollwood chews him up and spits him just long enough for him to come back to a Rashad ass kicking.


----------



## gdog43

I would love to see Kimbo vs Chuck Liddell - that would be a fun fight.
Kimbo vs Houston Alexander as well would be entertaining. Someone would be taking a nap in that one.

i dont care that kimbo has zero chance of being champion or beating many of the top ten fighters - there are still a lot of good exciting fights for him to be in for the UFC


----------



## Curly

MedicWanteD said:


> Kimbo is the Tank Abbott of this UFC generation.


Yep, the only thing is Tank had a little bit of scramble on the ground, Kimbo does not.


----------



## swpthleg

I don't see how he could cut to 205 without a great deal of difficulty, and dehydration TBH.


----------



## Mexican Fighter

I agree. I don't see how Kimbo could cut 25lbs and still be a powerfull striker. I could be wrong though, his legs look very small!


----------



## SimplyNate

He should just stick to reality TV. Kimbo Slice is "The Bachelor".


----------



## Zenhalo

LCRaiders said:


> I'm a Kimbo supporter but I just can't see him doing anything special in the LHW division


If you're a Kimbo supporter and saw him get canceled out the way he did against Nelson you'd fully support and see as his only viable option a move to LHW. Sure- if he wants to troll around and simply pick up a pay check- yeah- there are some HW's he can fight- and possibly beat but the thought of what Brock, Carwin, Cain, Mir or even Gonzaga would do to him- all 30-60 lbs heavier than him- all who would also crush Nelson like the tomato and cheese can he would be if he actually fought at HW in the UFC- ?

If he wants to contend- he has to have his own size as a factor. He could overpower smaller LHW's as opposed to struggling vs HW's- knowing his only shot vs. a bigger heavyweight would be an unabated punch to their face- throw out taking them down, throw out not being taken down. 

It makes sense.


----------



## coldcall420

*Forrest Griffin Discusses Marriage, Anderson Silva Loss*



> Featured Story:
> No
> 
> 
> Forrest Griffin hasn't been heard from much since his UFC 101 loss to Anderson Silva, but that's not to say he hasn't been keeping himself busy. The former UFC light heavyweight champion recently got married, released a new iPhone app and has been working on his second book, not to mention planning his upcoming honeymoon.
> 
> FanHouse spoke to Griffin on Thursday about the big changes in his life and when he expects to return to action. The full interview is below.
> 
> *Ariel Helwani: I heard you recently got married. Congratulations.*
> Forrest Griffin: I did. Thank you.
> 
> *How does it feel?*
> It's good. So far, so good. It's been a whole week. We're actually trying to plan our honeymoon right now. We're going to go do a bunch of cool stuff.
> 
> *I just downloaded your new iPhone app, and a lot of the material deals with dating, which makes me think it would make you more attractive to women right now. Kind of weird timing considering you just got married and all.*
> I don't know. You know, there's the old Alec Baldwin quote.
> 
> *Which one?*
> The ring means at least one person can stand you and your d*** works.
> 
> *Right. Well, I found some of your advice to be fascinating, but I'm curious if you always came across as a ladies man or do you just have more confidence now that you are taken?*
> Oh, no, no, no. There was definitely what I like to call some cold periods in my life.
> 
> *So, you're trying to help out some of your other fans who are having trouble in that department?*
> I would almost like to think that I was the loser that realized his ways and then kind of decidedly made a purposeful change.
> 
> *Kind of like the male version of the old ugly duckling story, right?*
> Well, yeah, except you don't really have to change much except for your attitude. Much easier.
> 
> *Does not having to worry about dating make you a better fighter?*
> Oh yeah. The biggest thing for me is just somebody that is supportive of me and my lifestyle. Think about it in reality, if you're out chasing women, you're not doing what you should be doing. If you got something steady and stable, and you know, a person you could really trust and count on to have your back, it makes a big difference in life. It's the old stupid quote, 'Behind every good man is a better woman,' or something of that nature.
> 
> *Are you humbled by the fact that you have an iPhone app, because if my research is correct, you're the only MMA fighter to have his own one?*
> That's awesome. You know, I'm not 100% sure what the hell the app is. All I did was read some stuff.
> 
> *Have you ever seen it?*
> No. Is it out yet? I looked for it yesterday.
> 
> *Yeah, I was just using it for a few minutes.*
> Wow. It's so popular that I couldn't even find it. Seriously, I was looking for it yesterday.
> 
> *All I had to do was type in your name*
> Wow. I didn't think of that. You're obviously a technological wizard, that's why you thought of that.
> 
> *Well, I liked your narration at the beginning. Your delivery was very convincing and enthusiastic.*
> The complete lack thereof. (_Mumbles narration with no enthusiasm)_. Yeah, that's another part of success. If you're not trying, you can't really fail.
> 
> *So have you put your fighting career on hold for a bit to focus on your wedding and honeymoon?*
> No, I'm just trying to get married and stuff; it's kind of a big deal. I'm going to start training again Oct. 12 actually, when we get back.
> 
> *Let's look back at your last fight against Silva at UFC 101. Ultimately, what do you think went wrong out there?*
> I don't know. I'm going to guess everything. You know where I made my biggest mistake was saying I would fight that guy. That's definitely the first mistake I made and the biggest.
> 
> *Was he better than you thought he would be?*
> I'm not really sure, man. I'm not really sure I showed up to fight him. Maybe I thought he was so good that I didn't have to fight him.
> 
> *Was there anything that you wish you could have done differently?*
> Yeah, pretty much wish I could have done everything differently. But that's a common theme in my life.
> 
> *What do you mean?*
> You know, because you make mistakes a lot and I have the want to go back and do everything perfect.
> 
> *What do you make of the criticism you received after leaving the cage immediately after the fight was over?*
> That's dumb. Those people are idiots. Why? Nobody cares. I mean, I don't think the losers were going to speak that night anyway, you know. Just get on with the next fight already.
> 
> *Did it bother you to hear people criticize your post-fight reaction?*
> Nah, that's the first time I've ever heard it. This is going to blow you away, but I haven't watched the fight or talked about it.
> 
> This guy actually asked me a good question the other day, and this is a real story and I really like it: first off, he was very confrontational; I didn't like him much to begin with, and he goes, 'Hey, man, I have to know,' because it's his business to know, 'why did you run out of the cage that night after the Silva fight.' And I said, 'Look, man, I haven't told anybody, let's keep this on the down low, but the truth is your mom was waiting for me in the back to suck my d***, and you know how good of a b*** j** your mom gives, so I didn't want to be late for that sh**.' And that's pretty much the answer I give. I like that answer, so I'll give that answer to everyone.
> 
> *Was he a fan or media member?*
> I don't know. I bet he's not a fan anymore, but I tell ya, I'm a fan of his mom's b*** j***. That's the important thing, and that's what I want to come across in your story. If anybody asks me that question, that's my answer.
> 
> You know what blows me away, man? All these kids ... First of all, people always rail on me for cussing, but I'm actually a really good person. But I use a lot of profanity because I consider what I do to be kind of an adult thing. Not like adult nudity, but you know, just violence, whatever. And I get all these kids, really young children, asking me to sign my book. And I wonder, Did your parents look at this before they gave it to you? This is not really a book for children. Actually my next book starts with a ratings system. Have you noticed there's no rating system for books?
> 
> *Like four stars or two thumbs up?*
> No, like parental guidelines like movies. What's up with that? I can just go rent any kind of book, you know?
> 
> *Oh, right. More to that point, you recently did an interview with MMA 30, and it seems like people came away from it thinking you don't like being a role model. Is that accurate?*
> You see, this is why I hate the media, man. This is why I really don't like doing interviews; this is why I don't really keep up with the sport, honestly. You know, when I watch the fights, I watch them on mute, because I don't really care to hear what anybody has to say about them. That kind of annoys me. I'm a really good person. I'm a very good person, and I'm better than most. If there's a heaven, I gotta think I'm going there. ... I think I'm a good role model. Like, when I have kids, I think I will be a good role model. I mean, I live my life according to my own beliefs.
> 
> *Are you still as passionate about your MMA career as you were before the Silva fight?*
> Well like anything, you're kind of jonesing to get back in the gym. I'm still a hyperactive kid, and if I go too long without getting good workouts in, I really feel like I'm bouncing off the walls like crazy, which is kind of like how I feel today.
> *Is there someone in particular that you would like to fight next?*
> I'm open to whatever. I mean, it can't get any worse, you know? Anbody. I already fought the best guy in the world. It can't get any worse.
> *Would you be interested in being a coach again on The Ultimate Fighter?*
> You know, the bottom line is I will do whatever the UFC wants me to do. They've really taken care of me and my career, thus far, so whatever direction they want me to go in, whoever they want me to fight, and that's genuine. I'm more preferential about where I fight than who I fight. I would really like to fight in, I don't know, Las Vegas. Or maybe, stretch, California, if I have to. I like to fight close to home, on my time zone, with the air that I'm used to, where I can control my food better. There's more fights overseas, and I understand I may have to fight overseas, but I put more into where I fight than whom I fight. I've never asked for anybody, well, except maybe 'Shogun,' actually. I almost think that you're kind of jinxing yourself. Like, I'm afraid to ask for opponents.
> 
> *And the UFC hasn't talked to you about what's next yet?*
> No. You know, it's hard for me to think about a fight when I'm on vacation or my honeymoon, so I was kind of hoping they would leave me alone until around Oct. 12. You know, when you are actually doing something about your next fight.
> 
> *Do you think you'll fight again in 2009?*
> You know, there's that Jan. 2 card that looks kind of appealing to me.
> 
> *And it's in Las Vegas ...*
> Oh, there you go. Done deal. I didn't even know that, but now I really want to fight on that one. Posted By:
> Ariel Helwani


Hopefully this answers some questions for people....:thumbsup: Kinda like the vid, but a little more details and questions....

CC420


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

Forrest Griffin said:


> You know what blows me away, man? All these kids...


Probably not the thing to say after you've been making BJ jokes, Roman Polanski...


----------



## Chileandude

Sicilian_Esq said:


> Probably not the thing to say after you've been making BJ jokes, Roman Polanski...


Hahahaha, didn't realize that first time around.


----------



## Darkwraith

I still want to have his babies.... :thumbsup:

Thanks for posting that. Very interesting read!


----------



## coldcall420

*Lyoto "The Dragon" Machida WAR WAGON...Hop On*





 
I watch some of the things in this fight and also see Lyoto's Muay Thai and every time I see something else that amazes me....

CC420

*WAR MACHIDA!!!!!*


Just thought I'd share.......


----------



## Smiley Face

Poor Mauricio... He has no CLUE what he's in for. 

This ain't going the distance. Lyoto finishes this by the second or third round. Bye Shogun.


----------



## BrianRClover

Good find CC! Or awesome job if you made it!

My 28th birthday is the night of this event... big party at the Ameristar Casino for anyone in the Saint Louis area. I told the woman all I wanted was to see Lyoto dominate!

WAR DRAGON!!!!!


----------



## M.C

Machida is a beast.


----------



## vandalian

CC, you're a Machida fan? 

Great vid.


----------



## FredFish1

Post the link please!

I wish Machida had a more original nick name. Something like "The Assassin" would be much better.


----------



## vandalian

FredFish1 said:


> Post the link please!
> 
> I wish Machida had a more original nick name. Something like "The Assassin" would be much better.


Just click on the video a second time. That'll open the Youtube page.

Edit: Understood.


----------



## FredFish1

I know 
But it doesn't work for me here at work. So could you please post the link!


----------



## M.C

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gViEZzvPP28&feature=player_embedded

For those that want the link.


----------



## Nefilim777

Goddamnn, Machida is just so good, I feel bad for Rua now...


----------



## stadw0n

War Shogun!!!!


----------



## ZeroPRIDE

how come there isnt a warwagon for Machida?!! CC make one. 

could someone give me the name of the video so i can seach for it on my phone.


----------



## coldcall420

ZeroPRIDE said:


> how come there isnt a warwagon for Machida?!! CC make one.
> 
> could someone give me the name of the video so i can seach for it on my phone.


 
Lyoto Machida Highlight - New 2009


Changing title of thread now......

CC420


----------



## BlacklistShaun

It's amazing to me how before he was champ nobody liked the guy. Now all of a sudden everyone loves him cuz he's finished two people...

My opinion is the guy is extremely boring. His style reminds me of Chuck Lidell to a certain extent...I'm going to run and hit, hit you, run, hit you, run...so boring.

I'm not hating on the guy, he's the champ no doubt, but I just don't like his bullcrap style.


----------



## ZeroPRIDE

oh dear. your new thats why you think that. Alot of people have loved him for a long time atleast on this forum. War Machida! im in the front of the Warwagon.

thanks CC420


----------



## BlacklistShaun

ZeroPRIDE said:


> oh dear. your new thats why you think that. Alot of people have loved him for a long time atleast on this forum. War Machida! im in the front of the Warwagon.
> 
> thanks CC420


I'm new here yes, definately not new to the sport though. I just hate the guys style. Didn't like him for a long time because all he has done for a long time is run around the ring and try not to engage. Now if he changes it around and uses some of his skills to go out there and go after some people then I'll change my mind about him, but for now I don't like him based on his particular fighting style.


----------



## coldcall420

BlacklistShaun said:


> I'm new here yes, definately not new to the sport though. I just hate the guys style. Didn't like him for a long time because all he has done for a long time is run around the ring and try not to engage. Now if he changes it around and uses some of his skills to go out there and go after some people then I'll change my mind about him, but for now I don't like him based on his particular fighting style.


 
Perhaps you should watch the video again. With all due respect Im sure you have watched the sport for a while, however that would lead me to believe you can recognize fine art when you see it. " He ran from me the whole fight"(Tito Ortiz)

Not the case he tossed Tito all around the cage delivering devestating kicks and dominating every round for a 30-27 victory....

Them Silva was going to bring it and instead you saw lyoto coming forward and eventyually K/oing him at the end of the first....

What is boring to some is amazing to me. His opponent throws a strike and Machida isnt there when it lands and at the exact same time he has landed to shot on you while stepping backwards at a 45 degree angle....its called counterstriking and he does it better than anyone in the UFC.....

Look at the vid bro and see, Im sure you will see what im talking bout, especially if you have been watching MMA for a while....

Im partial to Machida as I studied and have a black in Shotkan Karate....many of the things that were taught and shown to me are on display watching Machida's Karate....they are just displayed at a superior level...

To each his own though bro, If its not your liking then its not your liking...certainly your entitled to your opinion.
CC420:thumb02:


----------



## ZeroPRIDE

Machida is the PBF(mayweather) of MMA. Just like PBF some people hate his style and some people love his style. People who love them tend focus on technique rather than what style they fight with.


----------



## JACro

I don't really get where people say he's "running away". That seems really ignorant. When have you ever seen Lyoto turn his back? He engages his opponent the entire fight. If it was so easy just to "run" and score a win everyone would be doing it, this is CLEARLY not what Machida does. He keeps his DISTANCE and DODGES then COUNTERS. If he is countering how is it considered running? Machida hate REALLY annoys me because he is very good for the sport and a true martial artist showing real timing, skill and technique. Go watch Amateur boxing or something you retarded haters. Or maybe Machida-do 4 disc set then you can appreciate who Lyoto is


----------



## coldcall420

Mikeal Bisping runs away, and he doesnt even run....technically he circles......

Leben vs. Bisping = Perfect example of running....

Machida vs. Ortiz = perfect example of a Karate Master tossing a Wrestler around the cage for 3 rounds then being accused of running......

What does Lyoto do, win his next two fights by K/O....as almost his way of saying....STFU

CC420


----------



## M.C

Machida runs away when he fights and never finishes anyone, don't you know that, CC?


----------



## ZeroPRIDE

lol at peoples logic like that. 15 fights 5 ko's 2 subs and 8 dec. A tad bit under 50% pretty good if you ask me.


----------



## coldcall420

Michael Carson said:


> Machida runs away when he fights and never finishes anyone, don't you know that, CC?


 

I think I had a brain fart....:confused05: I think I got him confused with the other guy that is 15-0 and never lost a round in the UFC and averages getting hit every 2.5 rounds......

There's alot of guys like that in the UFC.....

CC420:wink01:


----------



## M.C

coldcall420 said:


> I think I had a brain fart....:confused05: I think I got him confused with the other guy that is 15-0 and never lost a round in the UFC and averages getting hit every 2.5 rounds......
> 
> There's alot of guys like that in the UFC.....
> 
> CC420:wink01:


I'm trying to think of something smart to continue this joke thing, but it's 9 AM here and I haven't slept yet.

I'll try again later.


----------



## JACro

*Merging posts*



coldcall420 said:


> I think I had a brain fart....:confused05: I think I got him confused with the other guy that is 15-0 and never lost a round in the UFC and averages getting hit every 2.5 rounds......
> 
> There's alot of guys like that in the UFC.....
> 
> CC420:wink01:


Everyone gives him props for the "elusiveness" and evasion of Lyoto, but don't forget he has one of the highest % accuracys in the ufc aswell. 



Michael Carson said:


> Machida runs away when he fights and never finishes anyone, don't you know that, CC?


Do you happen to jack off to Tito Ortiz pictures?:sarcastic12::thumb04:


----------



## vandalian

Hmmmm....well, he _is_ elusive...


----------



## JACro

vandalian said:


> LYOTO is elusivee alrite he runsfrom evry ponnent like a lil byatch!


It makes me laugh imagining you(being so much more macho then Lyoto:sarcastic12fighting Machida, and he's pivoting, dodging, and dashing and you just can't wrap your lil' brain around it. Then suddenly WAP you're hit, and your small little brain gets knocked out of your ears and you die...:thumb02:


----------



## M.C

JACro said:


> It makes me laugh imagining you(being so much more macho then Lyoto:sarcastic12fighting Machida, and he's pivoting, dodging, and dashing and you just can't wrap your lil' brain around it. Then suddenly WAP you're hit, and your small little brain gets knocked out of your ears and you die...:thumb02:


Lyoto isn't that good. He is not nearly as fast as say Rashad Evans is, nore does he have the knockout power that Rashad has.

Rashad would beat Lyoto if they were to ever fight.


----------



## JACro

Michael Carson said:


> Lyoto isn't that good. He is not nearly as fast as say Rashad Evans is, nore does he have the knockout power that Rashad has.
> 
> Rashad would beat Lyoto if they were to ever fight.


I guess you're right :shame02:


----------



## vandalian

Michael Carson said:


> Lyoto isn't that good. He is not nearly as fast as say Rashad Evans is, nore does he have the knockout power that Rashad has.
> 
> Rashad would beat Lyoto if they were to ever fight.


Totally. I bet even David Heath would beat him.


----------



## BlacklistShaun

coldcall420 said:


> Perhaps you should watch the video again. With all due respect Im sure you have watched the sport for a while, however that would lead me to believe you can recognize fine art when you see it. " He ran from me the whole fight"(Tito Ortiz)
> 
> Not the case he tossed Tito all around the cage delivering devestating kicks and dominating every round for a 30-27 victory....
> 
> Them Silva was going to bring it and instead you saw lyoto coming forward and eventyually K/oing him at the end of the first....
> 
> What is boring to some is amazing to me. His opponent throws a strike and Machida isnt there when it lands and at the exact same time he has landed to shot on you while stepping backwards at a 45 degree angle....its called counterstriking and he does it better than anyone in the UFC.....
> 
> Look at the vid bro and see, Im sure you will see what im talking bout, especially if you have been watching MMA for a while....
> 
> Im partial to Machida as I studied and have a black in Shotkan Karate....many of the things that were taught and shown to me are on display watching Machida's Karate....they are just displayed at a superior level...
> 
> To each his own though bro, If its not your liking then its not your liking...certainly your entitled to your opinion.
> CC420:thumb02:


There is no doubt that Machida is a great counter striker. The particular style of counter striking he employs bores me for the most part though...it's personal preference. As stated before I give the man all the props in the world...he is the champ afterall.

The thing I don't like about his style is it's kind of 1 dimensional in my opinion. His whole game to me is like Chuck was in his prime...as long as you chase after him, he's great. If you don't chase him it's going to be an extremely boring fight and it's probably gonna end by descision.

Look at Wanderley, he had to quit because he got exhausted from chasing him so much...just kidding. His style does depend a lot on someone chasing after him though...he backs away and relies on his counter punching. I'm not going to knock it because he does have skill at it no doubt and he sticks with what he's good at. The only thing is I don't like that particular style of fighting...it's nothing to do with him personally and I'm not trying to take anything away from the man, except the fact that he drinks his own pee...that's gross.


----------



## M.C

vandalian said:


> Totally. I bet even David Heath would beat him.


Dude, David Heath would wreck Lyoto's shit.


----------



## vandalian

Chuck's fight against Wandy was one of his most aggressive performances.


----------



## JACro

BlacklistShaun said:


> There is no doubt that Machida is a great counter striker. The particular style of counter striking he employs bores me for the most part though...it's personal preference. As stated before I give the man all the props in the world...he is the champ afterall.
> 
> The thing I don't like about his style is it's kind of 1 dimensional in my opinion. His whole game to me is like Chuck was in his prime...as long as you chase after him, he's great. If you don't chase him it's going to be an extremely boring fight and it's probably gonna end by descision.
> 
> Look at Wanderley, he had to quit because he got exhausted from chasing him so much...just kidding. His style does depend a lot on someone chasing after him though...he backs away and relies on his counter punching. I'm not going to knock it because he does have skill at it no doubt and he sticks with what he's good at. The only thing is I don't like that particular style of fighting...it's nothing to do with him personally and I'm not trying to take anything away from the man, except the fact that he drinks his own pee...that's gross.



Lyoto is much more then 1 dimensional, he is a black belt in karate AND jiujitzu he's also practiced judo, sumo, and muay thai.

He dictates the fight because he's so good at EVERY area of his game. Comparing him to Chuck liddell in style seem a little noobish in my personal opinion.

Also he is offensive with his kicks which are very hard to time and forces you to be on the offensive or be out pointed the entire round.


----------



## coldcall420

Honestly at this point the only one I see beating Lyoto is St. Leg Kicker....get some sleep MC im in the building:thumbsup:

CC420



WAR MACHIDA!!!


----------



## BlacklistShaun

JACro said:


> Lyoto is much more then 1 dimensional, he is a black belt in karate AND jiujitzu he's also practiced judo, sumo, and muay thai.
> 
> He dictates the fight because he's so good at EVERY area of his game. Comparing him to Chuck liddell in style seem a little noobish in my personal opinion.
> 
> Also he is offensive with his kicks which are very hard to time and forces you to be on the offensive or be out pointed the entire round.


Little noobish to compare his to Chuck??

Chuck happens to be an excellent wrestler, purple belt in BJJ as far as I can remember, a black belt in Kenpo, etc...I'm starting to see some similarities...

I'm not saying he's LIKE CHUCK I'm saying their styles have major similarities in the fact that both liked to be chased and counter strike.


----------



## JACro

coldcall420 said:


> Honestly at this point the only one I see beating Lyoto is St. Leg Kicker....get some sleep MC im in the building:thumbsup:
> 
> CC420
> 
> 
> 
> WAR MACHIDA!!!


I am a Lyoto nuthugger but I think it is apparent as with every fighter - Even if you are the best you can still get caught. Being the best only makes you % of winning go up; it never brings it to 100%


----------



## M.C

Conidering St. Leg Kicker is a God among men and is without question the greatest fighter of all time, I'd say so.


----------



## JACro

BlacklistShaun said:


> Little noobish to compare his to Chuck??
> 
> Chuck happens to be an excellent wrestler, purple belt in BJJ as far as I can remember, a black belt in Kenpo, etc...I'm starting to see some similarities...
> 
> *I'm not saying he's LIKE CHUCK* I'm saying their styles have major similarities in the fact that both liked to be chased and counter strike.





BlacklistShaun said:


> *His whole game* to me is *like* Chuck was in his prime.




counterstriking is about the only similarity I can see in their styles.


----------



## BlacklistShaun

JACro said:


> counterstriking is about the only similarity I can see in their styles.


They are both counter strikers, which means they have similar fighting styles. That's all I'm saying.


----------



## BlacklistShaun

Apparently whoever was overseeing the making of the Undisputed game thought the same of his style. I was playing on my buddies PS3 and he put me against Machida and it was 3 rounds of me chasing him. If I stopped moving he just stood there and waited for me to chase him. I guess the guys from the UFC have the same opinion of his style.

Not saying anything bad against the guy, just saying MYSELF, PERSONALLY do not care for his style of fighting.


----------



## M.C

That's cause he runs the whole time.

I seriously need to sleep, I am lying about things now.


----------



## caveman

I have never liked Machida much and wanted Shogun to kick the shit out of him. But after watching that video I don't think he can. Machida is a beast.raise01: I just hopped on the wagon.:thumb02:


----------



## SM33

Yo you guys are so ignorant... it is completely ignorant to say '... WILL beat ...' or '... does NOT have a chance ...'. Yes Lyoto Machida is unbeaten so far yes he is obviously pretty good yes he is elusive yes he is top quality counter striker... get over it?

This is the first time Shogun will be competing at '100%' for some years, don't you consider that the last time his body was at 100% (some time ago) he was considered the best LHW out there? Lyoto was competing at this time too ya know. Have you bothered to watch recent interviews with Shogun which imply that he may well be the first person to have worked out Lyoto's little secret and is developing a strategy to beat it? Floorspace?!?! Distance?!?! Countering?!? Lyoto's best mates?!?

I wouldn't know who to bet on for this match I consider them both top 5. But at least I can actually comprehend that anything can happen and neither fighter has any more chance at winning than the other. And Lyoto's footwork aint gona be great come fight night if you lot dont pull ya pins outta his ass quick!


----------



## JACro

*double post*

Kid, it's just a game. :sarcastic12:

Do you actually think that in real fights when his opponents aren't pushing the pace Lyoto does nothing? He always become a little offensive, enough to lure his opponent back on the offensive.



SM33 said:


> Yo you guys are so ignorant... it is completely ignorant to say '... WILL beat ...' or '... does NOT have a chance ...'. Yes Lyoto Machida is unbeaten so far yes he is obviously pretty good yes he is elusive yes he is top quality counter striker... get over it?
> 
> This is the first time Shogun will be competing at '100%' for some years, don't you consider that the last time his body was at 100% (some time ago) he was considered the best LHW out there? Lyoto was competing at this time too ya know. Have you bothered to watch recent interviews with Shogun which imply that he may well be the first person to have worked out Lyoto's little secret and is developing a strategy to beat it? Floorspace?!?! Distance?!?! Countering?!? Lyoto's best mates?!?
> 
> I wouldn't know who to bet on for this match I consider them both top 5. But at least I can actually comprehend that anything can happen and neither fighter has any more chance at winning than the other. And Lyoto's footwork aint gona be great come fight night if you lot dont pull ya pins outta his ass quick!


It's interesting because shogun has actually train with Yoshizo Machida, Lyotos father, and has just recently earned his purple belt in karate. It is certainly going to be an interesting match up; but shogun will get frustrated and lose. that's my prediction, and I like shogun he's going to be top 3 in the division for sure.


----------



## M.C

JACro said:


> Kid, it's just a game. :sarcastic12:
> 
> Do you actually think that in real fights when his opponents aren't pushing the pace Lyoto does nothing? He always become a little offensive, enough to lure his opponent back on the offensive.
> 
> 
> 
> It's interesting because shogun has actually train with Yoshizo Machida, Lyotos father, and has just recently earned his purple belt in karate. It is certainly going to be an interesting match up; but shogun will get frustrated and lose. that's my prediction, and I like shogun he's going to be top 3 in the division for sure.


Make sure to use the "edit" button instead of double posting. :thumbsup:


----------



## Iuanes

Didn't you guys hear? The Machida wagon was dismantled after losing to Rashad, everybody jumped off it because they realized he was sooooo overrated.


Honestly, I would be Machida nut hugger if I could, but his nuts are too damn elusive.


----------



## JACro

Iuanes said:


> Didn't you guys hear? The Machida wagon was dismantled after losing to Rashad, everybody jumped off it because they realized he was sooooo overrated.
> 
> 
> Honestly, I would be Machida nut hugger if I could, but his nuts are too damn elusive.


losing to rashad?:confused03:


----------



## SM33

quote - It's interesting because shogun has actually train with Yoshizo Machida, Lyotos father, and has just recently earned his purple belt in karate.

Well I didnt' know that.. another twist in the story! And yes I can imagine Shogun losing patience if he can't land anything significant for a while, but at the same time he must understand that that's part of the Lyoto strategy. Whether its by leg kicks, super reflexes or just mental frustration, Lyoto generally succeeds in making his opponents come forward in an unprepared state. I disagree that Lyoto is not an offensive/agressive fighter, he's just most comfortable attacking while moving backwards and countering. Quite often when not a lot is going on he'll throw a roundhouse or two...

Can't wait to see how Shogun's plan works out... eually I can't wait to see how Lyoto reacts when its get's close n nasty and he's not neccessarily the conductor of that situation.


----------



## TraMaI

It's scary how much he's improved too... wow.


Also, LULZ FOREARM CHOKE!


----------



## BlacklistShaun

I as well don’t understand how everyone thinks that Machida is just going to destroy Shogun.

Seriously, look at both of them and look at who they’ve fought…

Machida beat B.J. by decision when he was still in his “I don’t train…I just show up” stage. He beat Rich Franklin…never thought he was that good anyhow. He beat Stephen Bonnar…big deal. Beat Tito after he was good and washed up. Beat Rashad who I always thought was way overrated. To me the only person he ever fought that was half way top tier competition was Thiago and I’ll give him props for that win.

Shogun on the other hand has fought guys like Babalu, Rampage, Nog, Overeem, Arona, Coleman, Randleman, Griffin, etc…


----------



## vandalian

Because Machida is a horrible matchup for Shogun. If Forrest outstruck Shogun, then Machida most certainly will.


----------



## TraMaI

wait so Rashad is overrated, Rish sucks and Tito is washed up... but Thiago Silva is top tier?


----------



## BlacklistShaun

You can flame all you want, but the only reason IMO that Rich was champ was because of the weak competition they had at the time. Anderson came in and showed how weak his game was, and now Belfort has done the same.

Tito has been washed up for a long time. I mean come on, when's the last time the guy won a fight?? Oh, that's right it was back in '06 against a super washed out Ken Shamrock...The last real fight he won was Forrest back in '06 and that was a controversial decision.

As far as Thigao, he's a beast. He pretty much destroyed everyone he's fought and done so in stunning fashion. The only fight he's lost was against Machida.


----------



## coldcall420

*Attention Australians*

http://mmamania.com/2009/10/12/oi-ufc-confirms-australia-event-in-the-works-for-2010/



> *Oi! UFC confirms Australia event in the works for 2010*
> 
> By: Jesse Holland
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) continues its quest for world domination after confirming that a future event will be staged from the Acer Arena in Sydney, Australia, according to The Sydney Herald.
> The venue, formerly known as the Sydney SuperDome, can seat up to 21,000 fans and was recently contacted by Zuffa about a possible date in February 2010, according to the report.
> 
> 
> From UFC president of the British division Marshall Zelaznik:_“It’s going to happen, we’re coming. Planning is in effect, we’ve had a number of strategy meetings and we are on the verge of retaining some key partners in Australia.”_​The arena is probably best known for playing host to gymnastics and basketball for the Sydney 2000 Olympic Games as well as its frequent WWE wrestling shows.
> Despite the recent confirmation, the Outback has long been on Zuffa’s radar. UFC President Dana White first commented on a possible trip down under to the boys at knucklepit.com during a media conference for UFC 84 back in early 2008.
> 
> 
> Here’s a snip:_We’re focused on Germany, the Philippines and Australia next. The Philippines is definitely happening. We’re working on that right now. Australia and Germany, those three are right now._​Germany played host to UFC 99 back on June 13 from the Lanxess Arena in Cologne while a Philippines show is currently in the works. If an Australian event comes to fruition by next year, one has to imagine that Brazil and Japan are not far behind for “The world’s fastest growing sport.”
> Stay tuned.


 
Hope this works out I know a couple of you boys from down under would love to see a live card lets keep our fingers crosssed......:thumbsup:


----------



## OZjet

this will be a big boost for MMA in Austrailia, hopefully it will pave way for a lot more coverage of other organisations. TV is getting a bit saturated with repeat UFC.
Would love to see Dana get hold of Hector for this also.


----------



## Biowza

Sydney? Really? Those guys can't fill a stadium to save their lives. Do it in Melbourne. 

Still, this is excellent news, I'd easily fly to Sydney to see the UFC if they came down here.


----------



## Judoka

Biowza said:


> Sydney? Really? Those guys can't fill a stadium to save their lives. Do it in Melbourne.
> 
> Still, this is excellent news, I'd easily fly to Sydney to see the UFC if they came down here.


Sydney is better:thumb02:


----------



## fakANT

Sydney? Man... terrible decision. Everyone knows Melbourne is where it's at.


----------



## Intermission

Either way this is very interesting. Look how fast MMA is growing. its insane


----------



## Biowza

Judoka said:


> Sydney is better:thumb02:


The average attendance of an NRL game is like 16,000 people, compared to 47,000 people on average attending AFL games. We also have like twice the amount of stadiums you guys do and we have the MCG. 










Doesn't really matter though, the UFC is making a pretty bad call in taking this to Sydney, hopefully they realise it but if they don't I'll still go to Sydney anyway.


----------



## mel_progson

Biowza said:


> The average attendance of an NRL game is like 16,000 people, compared to 47,000 people on average attending AFL games. We also have like twice the amount of stadiums you guys do and we have the MCG.
> 
> 
> Doesn't really matter though, the UFC is making a pretty bad call in taking this to Sydney, hopefully they realise it but if they don't I'll still go to Sydney anyway.


I believe the thread is about MMA not one of our football codes. This event will sell out whether it be in Sydney or Melbourne.

Dana would be looking at this from a commercial aspect, would you like to have promo's beamed across the world from Australia's most beautiful city?..........or Melbourne.


----------



## Judoka

Biowza said:


> The average attendance of an NRL game is like 16,000 people, compared to 47,000 people on average attending AFL games. We also have like twice the amount of stadiums you guys do and we have the MCG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't really matter though, the UFC is making a pretty bad call in taking this to Sydney, hopefully they realise it but if they don't I'll still go to Sydney anyway.


Thats NRL not MMA.

My point was it was better for me.


----------



## JWP

haha that would be right

for the first time in my life im stayin overseas (uk & europe) and am going to ufc105 (i know i know), but my thoughts were that its the only chance ill get

and i probly wont be home b4 february!!!!!!!!! whats with that!!!

its still gr8 to have an event in oz but i cant help feeling sorry for myself hehe

mmmm i dunno about the sydney v melb thing, what i do know is the best fighting city is the gold coast, but coz the only proper mma comp is in sydney - its probly why its there

maybe they should have it in adelaide (joking of course)


----------



## SerevalAssassin

Isn't MMA banned here in Victoria? It is really a disgrace for Australia's sporting capital to have the sport banned.



mel_progson said:


> I believe the thread is about MMA not one of our football codes. This event will sell out whether it be in Sydney or Melbourne.
> 
> Dana would be looking at this from a commercial aspect, would you like to have promo's beamed across the world from Australia's most beautiful city?..........or Melbourne.


most beautiful from a distance...  Nevertheless its great to have an event here I just hope Sydney is able to produce a good crowd.


----------



## Belfort

Awsome news i will make the trip from Perth to see this for sure, very interested to see what sort of card they will put together for us. It will be sick no matter what can't wait :thumb02:


----------



## Big Nasty

Wow!!!

As soon as this is official i will be booking my flight from melbourne to sydney for this.

If it does happen i just hope its better than the shitty card they put on for the british people.


----------



## Judoka

SerevalAssassin said:


> Isn't MMA banned here in Victoria? It is really a disgrace for Australia's sporting capital to have the sport banned.
> 
> 
> most beautiful from a distance...  Nevertheless its great to have an event here I just hope Sydney is able to produce a good crowd.


It is too, Sydney is automatically the winner then.


----------



## Jamal

Me & a few mates are goin


----------



## RushFan

Great news. I just hope we get a decent card and not a CFC promotion with a UFC main event. 
It will definitely be a sell out though.


----------



## Judoka

RushFan said:


> Great news. I just hope we get a decent card and not a CFC promotion with a UFC main event.
> It will definitely be a sell out though.


It won't be anything special IMO.


----------



## RushFan

Judoka said:


> It won't be anything special IMO.


Maybe but, from a recreational perspective, the idea of fighting in Australia has gotta be more appealing than the UK or Canada. Plus our dollar will soon be worth more than the American ( 91 cents and rising ) so the pay day will be good too. :thumb02: That alone could attract some good fighters.


----------



## mel_progson

Judoka said:


> It won't be anything special IMO.


To quote some old band...."Sad but true".


----------



## InAweOfFedor

I hate Sydney but I would go for a UFC event every day of the week...

Everyone knows that if you want to fill a stadium in Australia put an event on in Melbourne (Vics are crazy for sport)... But if mma is banned there then I guess Sydney it is, I'll be there with bells on, it could be held in a chook shed in Canberra and I'd go!


----------



## CornbreadBB

I know this is off of topic but where is Australia?! JOKE!

Real question, why are there so few Australian MMA fighters known in the U.S.?


----------



## Biowza

The point I was making was that Victorians in general are bigger sport fans. Melbourne is easily the sporting capital of Australia.


----------



## Judoka

Biowza said:


> The point I was making was that Victorians in general are bigger sport fans. Melbourne is easily the sporting capital of Australia.


Yeah, there are sports fans everywhere but true about Melbourne. however, it's banned in Vic.



CornbreadBB said:


> I know this is off of topic but where is Australia?! JOKE!
> 
> Real question, why are there so few Australian MMA fighters known in the U.S.?


Australia has some very good but no very top MMA fighters.

Watch for the name Jamie Te Huna.

Also Hector Lombard and Kyle Noke IMO should be IFC targets, especially for this card.


----------



## JWP

CornbreadBB said:


> I know this is off of topic but where is Australia?! JOKE!
> 
> Real question, why are there so few Australian MMA fighters known in the U.S.?



im sure there will be in the future. of course our population is not that high, and i would probably say that per capita, muay thai produces the most world class fighters over here. of course we have a few good boxers too

i also think timing has alot to do with it. muay thai/kickboxing gained exposure quite a few years before mma so i think you will find that this will change as the next generation comes through because mma gyms are popping up everywhere and from a fan perspective, mma is growing rapidly


----------



## Judoka

JWP said:


> im sure there will be in the future. of course our population is not that high, and i would probably say that per capita, muay thai produces the most world class fighters over here. of course we have a few good boxers too
> 
> i also think timing has alot to do with it. muay thai/kickboxing gained exposure quite a few years before mma so i think you will find that this will change as the next generation comes through because mma gyms are popping up everywhere and from a fan perspective, mma is growing rapidly


Australia seems to have some great kickboxers. We are a bit behind in MMA and for the most part, Boxing.

We will see, there are many great MMA fighters.


----------



## Danm2501

Just have to hope that for Australia's sake that they don't get the same treatment us Brits get. If they do, then the first PPV held down under will be headlined by George Sotiropoulos


----------



## joshua7789

Maybe they will throw John Wayne Parr on this card. Give him a fighter that will go for one of those "gentlemans agreements" to not take the fight to the ground. That would be pretty funny.


----------



## JWP

Judoka said:


> Australia seems to have some great kickboxers. We are a bit behind in MMA and for the most part, Boxing.
> 
> We will see, there are many great MMA fighters.


just need the carnage and paul slowinski to learn some tdd!

your right about boxing, what sux is that mundine gets more press than say katsidis, who is an absolute beast

sotiropolous looked gr8 on his last outing

and i always enjoy watching kyle noke and hector lombard

in a way its guna be exciting watching new talent come through in the future, which is inevitable i reckon


----------



## coldcall420

*Shogun’ Sees Machida as Favorite at UFC 104*



> Mauricio “Shogun” Rua knows his place in the UFC 104 main event against light heavyweight champion Lyoto Machida on Oct. 24 at the Staples Center in Los Angeles. Though he has not played it often during his career, he likes his role as the underdog.
> 
> “I think Lyoto is the favorite, and rightfully so,” Rua said during a Thursday teleconference. “It’s only right that he’s the favorite. He’s the number one fighter in the weight class and the champion. It gives me a lot of motivation to train hard and do my best, which is the goal of every fighter.”
> 
> Rua used his technical knockout victory over UFC hall of famer Chuck Liddell in April as a springboard to a title shot. The 27-year-old Brazilian, who rose to global prominence inside Pride Fighting Championships, was viewed by most as the world’s premier 205-pound fighter a few short years ago. However, a submission loss to Forrest Griffin in his UFC debut, two subsequent knee injuries and a lackluster performance against Mark Coleman left much to be desired.
> 
> “I never really got worried,” Rua said. “I believe in my potential. I know what I can do. I feel 100 percent focused. I only train, eat and sleep. I’ve tried to take each fight as a step toward my goal. Now, the time his come. It’s time for me to rise up to the occasion.”
> 
> Machida, who smashed through Rashad Evans to capture the UFC light heavyweight crown in May, respects Rua’s ability and his place as a top contender at 205 pounds.
> 
> “I’ve followed Shogun’s career for a long time,” Machida said. “Everyone knows what he’s accomplished in his career. We know each other. We respect each other. But at the end of the day, we want the same thing.”
> 
> Rua -- who won the 2005 Pride middleweight grand prix with victories against Quinton “Rampage” Jackson, Antonio Rogerio Nogueira, Alistair Overeem and Ricardo Arona in the span of four months -- claims to feel less pressure entering his first UFC main event.
> 
> “I expect to give my best,” Rua said. “That’s the only thing I demand of myself. I never obligate myself to win a fight.”
> 
> Other notes from the teleconference were:
> 
> • Machida will not approach the fight as a title defense. He looks at it as if he were trying to win the belt all over again. “Every time I step in the Octagon, my goal is to become a better fighter, evolve and apply the new skills I’m learning,” he said;
> 
> • Rua’s knee, which required two surgeries to repair, has been deemed 100 percent by the Brazilian. “Nowadays, it doesn’t really bother me at all,” Rua said;
> 
> • Machida considers his 2008 bout with Tito Ortiz his toughest to date, not because of what took place inside the cage but because of what went on outside it. “I felt I was brought in to beat Tito, for more than just to beat Tito, for political reasons,” he said;
> 
> • Rua claims the cage itself was the most significant hurdle he faced in transitioning from Pride to the UFC. “It’s a completely different game. It’s almost like playing in the NFL or Arena football.” He now trains with an Octagon, built to official scale, at his academy. “I feel better prepared now,” Rua said;
> 
> • Machida remains in the process of adapting to life as a UFC champion. “Things have changed a lot. I find myself being in the position every light heavyweight fighter wants to be in. There are a lot of distractions, a lot of people coming at you. My biggest worry is staying focused and zoning in on what’s important.” The unbeaten 31-year-old credits his team and family for shielding him from outside pressures;
> 
> • Rua spent his entire training camp in Curitiba, Brazil. “I trained with people who have been at my side for a long time, people who know how to push my potential to its limits. I weighed all my [training] options. I’m confident I made the right decision,” he said;
> 
> • Machida points to his decision to work with a strength and conditioning coach as the reason behind the destructive power he showed in knockout victories against Evans and Thiago Silva. “Now, I have an infrastructure behind me that allows my strikes to be a lot more effective and allows me to maximize my power,” the champion said.


 
Thoughts???:confused02:


----------



## the ultimate

It will be mind games from Shogun. He will obviously believe in himself and be confident that he's going to win.


----------



## joshua7789

Shogun is one of the best mixed martial artists on the planet, he has beaten some damn good guys in there prime, im sure he is not in the least bit intimidated by Machida.


----------



## ash

I'm glad Shogun see himself as the underdog here, hopefully that means he's going all out in anticipation of a war. I don't know if he can pull it off but I'll definitely be pulling for him come fight night. I'm actually a pretty big fan of both guys but for some reason I would really like to see Shogun go in there, win the title and mix things up a LHW. I won't be surprised or too disappointed if Machida comes out on top though, the guy's a beast and a class act on top of it.


----------



## Xerxes

Hopefully this won't be a one sided bout and we'll get to see an epic battle between these 2.

I for one cannot wait!


----------



## coldcall420

*The Blueprint: Machida vs. Shogun*

http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=news.detail&gid=23114



> *Perfect.*
> The Merriam Webster Dictionary has multiple definitions for that adjective. Maybe the simplest way to define it is with two words: Lyoto Machida.
> 15-0 as a professional. 7-0 in the UFC. 1-0 in title fights.
> 
> Those numbers are certainly impressive, but they pale in comparison with Machida’s most remarkable fighting accomplishment. In 17 rounds of UFC competition, the reigning UFC Light Heavyweight Champion has yet to lose a single round.
> Think about that for a moment. Machida hasn’t lost a single round in any of his fights. That qualifies as insane.
> *To put Machida’s streak of flawlessness into perspective, Anderson Silva, the sport’s universally recognized pound-for-pound king, had three losses on his record through his first 15 professional fights. And while he is undefeated in the UFC, just like Machida, he has not won all 18 of his rounds of Octagon competition.*
> The odds are weighted heavily against Machida indefinitely continuing his masterful stretch of fighting. Sooner or later, someone will catch him on the chin or take him down and keep him there, winning a round, if not winning the fight.
> Forget sooner or later, as Mauricio “Shogun” Rua hopes to bring Machida’s run to an end in just a few days when the two meet at the Staples Center in the main event of UFC 104.
> Shogun hasn’t enjoyed the same perfect career as his opponent, but he was close during his four-year PRIDE stint, where he only lost once in 13 fights—a fluke broken arm suffered during a Mark Coleman takedown that resulted in a quick TKO. The loss to Coleman notwithstanding, Shogun was viewed by many as the very best 205-lb fighter on the planet from 2005 through 2007, so many thought he would be the heir apparent to the 205-lb throne when he signed with the UFC.
> That hasn’t been the case so far, though Shogun has the opportunity to change that on Saturday night.
> After an inauspicious transition to the UFC, including a one-sided loss to Forrest Griffin and two knee surgeries, Shogun appears to be back on track. He is currently enjoying a two-fight winning streak following the loss to Griffin, the most recent of which was a first-round knockout win over former champion Chuck Liddell in what might have been the most impressive effort of Shogun’s career.
> Shogun knows that nobody, not Machida and not anybody else, is unbeatable. If he is able to take Machida out of his comfort zone by pushing the pace of the action, he certainly has the ability to take the championship in sudden and spectacular fashion.
> That may seem a bit counterintuitive because Machida is an expert counterstriker. Expert counterstrikers, however, need a sense of order and calm in order to execute. If overwhelmed with an all-out assault that was not telegraphed, anyone, including Machida, will react to such chaos with chaos.
> Breaking that down into more detail, Machida has a very awkward style, as far as MMA is concerned. He stands almost sideways, in a traditional Karate stance, with his weight well past his center point and his upper body noticeably leaning back. That is all designed to make him difficult to hit, not so much to place him in the proper position from which to attack.
> Machida, who has explosive quickness, uses quick jab steps and sudden shoulder movements to feint an attack, and he does it early and often in the first round. Those feints put his opponent on the defensive because he is thinking about defending an incoming strike, rather than attacking. From there, he will throw the occasional lead high kick on the end of one of those jab steps or he may sprint in briefly with piston-like punches. Neither is overly dangerous—neither is meant to be, either.
> All of that is designed to accomplish two goals: set up his bread and butter attack, which is leading with a kick to the body followed immediately by a short straight left, and force his opponent into tentative one-strike attacks that he can counter. Machida caught Evans with that kick-punch combination and dropped him. It wasn’t the force of the blow that led to the knockdown, rather the fact that Evans’ attention was wholly focused on defending the kick to the body.
> The best way to avoid eating into that left hand is to be prepared to step in, though outside of Machida’s right foot, with a right hand down the middle as soon as Machida lifts his back leg to throw a kick off of his jab step. By stepping in with a right hand, Shogun will close the distance, effectively neutralizing the body kick or high kick, if the champion is mixing it up. Evans did that once late in the first round and it led to a tie-up, something Shogun, with his savage Muay Thai skills, would welcome with open arms.
> More importantly, though, Shogun must not sit back and allow Machida to set the pace of the fight. He cannot allow the champion to dictate his action with feints. Instead, Shogun needs to fly out of his corner like he did against Quinton “Rampage” Jackson in their PRIDE bout and attack with something crazy—a flying knee, a blitz of punches, whatever.
> Machida has shown that he will retreat in the fact of an aggressive attack because he is a defense-first fighter. If the attack is at all tentative, he will stand his ground and counter. If Shogun can force Machida out of his comfort zone and turn it into a sloppy slugfest, he wins by knockout because he fights with a controlled chaos during wild exchanges, something that he learned during his brutal sparring sessions while training at the famed Chute Boxe Academy in Curitiba, Brazil.
> Those sessions taught Shogun to be a fighter. He is a Muay Thai brawler. Machida grew up a martial artist. He is about perfection. He is about the purity of the art. He is not a brawler.
> That is the key for Shogun—make the fight a brawl. Forget about timed counters, except for the one mentioned above. Forget about precise technique. Shogun just needs to fight.
> Machida, by contrast, must do what he does in every fight—dictate the pace, dominate his opponent’s mind with feints and then explode when the opening presents itself.
> Machida might be the most underrated puncher in the sport. His knockout wins over Thiago Silva and Evans demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt that he has real pop in those hands. But again, he is not a slugger. His power comes from perfect technique and timing. He must limit chaos by controlling the environment in order to execute perfectly.
> 
> There is no need to spell out the champion’s Xs and Os for a second time. They are written above. If he can execute against Shogun like he did against Evans, the result will be the same and Machida’s flawless run through the UFC will continue for at least one more fight. If not, he may very well lose this bout.
> If pressed to pick a winner, I would tend to lean toward Machida. Shogun’s recent troubles with his cardiovascular levels early in fights, something that rarely haunted him in PRIDE, raise very real questions about the appropriateness of his preparation. He has looked better in each of his three UFC bouts, trending in a positive direction with both his technique and his cardio levels. Those are good facts. Nevertheless, if this bout lasts past two rounds, I like Machida every day of the week and a half dozen times on Saturday nights.
> The problem is that I don’t think this bout will last more than two rounds. Call it contrarian theory, call it negativity or call it mindlessness, but the UFC has a deep history of fighters losing the minute cognoscenti dub them unbeatable. It has happened to every great UFC fighter. The sport has so much parity that an undefeated career is almost unthinkable—mention of one borders on MMA blasphemy.
> I happen to believe that Machida is currently at the very top of his game, which makes him ripe for an upset based on recent history, so my pick, with no more logic than what you’ve read in this paragraph, is that Shogun will shock the world.
> Actually, that isn’t completely true. Shogun matches up very well stylistically with Machida because he is able to perform so beautifully during chaos. He is an expert at creating chaos. And if he creates it on Saturday night, he is going to win by knockout.


 
Intresting....:confused02:


----------



## neoseeker

Very interesting and objective analysis CC420. I know you like Machida very much and to pick Shogun came as a surprise. I do agree with you in your analysis. I seriously believe that we are going to see a great fight because these two fighters are incredibly gifted skills wise. Both fighter are very versatile and that's the allure of this fight. To close, I do like Shogun in this fight too but fear Machida's technique.


----------



## Hammerlock2.0

Man, this article actually conviced me that Shogun has more than a puncher's chance. I still think Machida will take it though.

Nice read. :thumbsup:


----------



## Chileandude

neoseeker said:


> Very interesting and objective analysis CC420. I know you like Machida very much and to pick Shogun came as a surprise. I do agree with you in your analysis. I seriously believe that we are going to see a great fight because these two fighters are incredibly gifted skills wise. Both fighter are very versatile and that's the allure of this fight. To close, I do like Shogun in this fight too but fear Machida's technique.


he's just quoting an UFC.com article, which i believe is only trying to put over Shogun as a legit contender. He's giving him too big of a chance.


----------



## 6toes

neoseeker said:


> Very interesting and objective analysis CC420. I know you like Machida very much and to pick Shogun came as a surprise. I do agree with you in your analysis. I seriously believe that we are going to see a great fight because these two fighters are incredibly gifted skills wise. Both fighter are very versatile and that's the allure of this fight. To close, I do like Shogun in this fight too but fear Machida's technique.


That wasn't ColdCall's analysis, that was taken from UFC.com.

And I actually found this very interesting, I would still lean heavily on Machida taking this fight but at the same time I feel the same way as the author in that it seems once someone is labeled unbeatable they take that big upset loss. Usually coming back with even more intensity. Of course Fedor and Silva have yet to suffer a similar upset since their reign of terror began so if Machida is able to survive his first title defense I see him holding that belt for a while. Just my random collection of thoughts :thumb02:


----------



## cdtcpl

I think the article gives Shogun too much credit and it trying to build up the fight as equals. I would try to build it as the fighter who has fallen from grace facing a fighter still in his immortal era. Sorry, but if Shogun just rushes in as the article suggests he will get a quickly retreating Machida, not a Machida who will stand his ground and get into a brawl. Machida is willing to run a mile per round in the cage, Shogun will find himself quickly gassed if he just chases him around throwing wild crap. Shoguns best chance it to corner Machida as best as possible, kind of like Thaigo Silva did, but then explode and hope that the fight doesn't end like Thaigo Silva's did.

I think more fighters need to pay attention to Lyoto's feet, they tell all of his actions and you can tell when they lose track because they end up on the ground due to a simple trip.


----------



## name goes here

I don't think there is a connection between a fighter being labelled unbeatable and them losing, other than both can happen to the same fighter, and obviously the label has to happen before the loss. Anderson has been unbeaten for a while. Rashad was actually faster and with better reactions than Mach, but Machs intelligence and feinting won anyway. So I don't think Machs success is reliant on depletable physical facets. It's not like he's taking any damage anyway. So there is really no reason for Mach to suddenly lose. What does the Shogun we've seen recently bring to the fight Thiago and Rashad didn't? Mach's footwork is good enough to flee and jab indefinatley.

For someone who writes articles, this guys opinions are pretty dumbass


----------



## King Koopa

i think machida takes this by t/ko in rounds 2-4


----------



## Uchaaa

Anyone who picks against machida is jsut insane. 

Btw, I hope they will do an machida all access someday, I want to see his training methods.


----------



## 6toes

name goes here said:


> I don't think there is a connection between a fighter being labelled unbeatable and them losing, other than both can happen to the same fighter, and obviously the label has to happen before the loss. Anderson has been unbeaten for a while. Rashad was actually faster and with better reactions than Mach, but Machs intelligence and feinting won anyway. So I don't think Machs success is reliant on depletable physical facets. It's not like he's taking any damage anyway. So there is really no reason for Mach to suddenly lose. What does the Shogun we've seen recently bring to the fight Thiago and Rashad didn't? Mach's footwork is good enough to flee and jab indefinatley.
> 
> For someone who writes articles, this guys opinions are pretty dumbass


I think as some have said, this article was more of an attempt to give Shogun a chance in the public eye. And the writer says himself that he really doesn't have much reason to pick Shogun, he just has a feeling based on some similar situations in the past. :dunno:

I understand what he's saying but I certainly wouldn't go out and place money on Shogun right now.


----------



## michelangelo

Shogun was a finisher and he exploited pride rules ruthlessly: soccer kicks, axe kicks, basically no holds barred aggression. 

Without these advantages, Shogun will find himself in a stand up war. If he moves forward too aggressively, a la Thiago Silva, it's over.

I'm really hoping Shogun surprises me, and puts on an exceptionally competitive fight...


----------



## coldcall420

Uchaaa said:


> Anyone who picks against machida is jsut insane.
> 
> Btw, I hope they will do an machida all access someday, I want to see his training methods.


 
http://www.mmaforum.com/mma-multimedia/61383-machida-do-karate-mma-tutorial-dvd.html

:thumb02:


----------



## swpthleg

I'm still going with Machida, but that breakdown of their respective styles was fascinating.


----------



## jeffmantx

I have to go with Machida as well, the guy that wrote this article failed to mention how hard i is for a camp to prepare for a fighter like Machida, just ask Greg Jackson. This will be the difference in the fight.


----------



## coldcall420

*Machida: If I Defend Title Five Times I Want To Fight Brock Lesnar*

http://www.mmanews.com/ufc/Machida:-If-I-Defend-Title-Five-Times-I-Want-To-Fight-Brock-Lesnar.html

Enjoy, the crazy part is he is serious!!!!:thumb02:


----------



## coldcall420

*Programming reminder: UFC ‘Countdown to 104′ debuts TONIGHT (Oct. 19) on Spike TV*

»
*







*

http://mmamania.com/2009/10/19/prog...own-to-104-debuts-tonight-oct-19-on-spike-tv/




> Countdown to UFC 104 will debut tonight (October 19) at 11 p.m. ET on Spike TV to promote the upcoming pay-per-view (PPV) event scheduled for the Staples Center in Los Angeles, California, on Saturday, October 24.
> The hour-long special presentation will provide a glimpse into the preparation and training camps of the fighters set to headline the show, including current light heavyweight champion Lyoto “The Dragon” Machida and challenger Mauricio “Shogun” Rua.
> Also slated for the main card is a heavyweight tilt between rising talent Cain Velasquez and IFL/Affliction veteran “Big” Ben Rothwell, as well as a lightweight showdown between Sean “The Muscle Shark” Sherk and Gleison Tibau.
> For those who miss tonight’s “Countdown to UFC 104″ premier it will re-air on Thursday, October 22 at 1 p.m. ET and then again on Saturday, October 24 at 6 p.m. ET.


----------



## coldcall420

*Dana White willing to sell small stake in UFC to outside investor (Video)*

http://mmamania.com/2009/10/18/dana...small-stake-in-ufc-to-outside-investor-video/


Funny, things could be getting tough......Perhaps they would be intrested in selling some of the UFC to Gary Shaw....LOL


----------



## SUR1109

it's not if he defends it five times its when :thumb02: nice find


----------



## Davisty69

If/When he defends it 5 times, I think it will be sweet to have him fight Brock, assuming Brock is still the champ. 

People always have a problem with a champion jumping weight class anbandoning his belt, but if you defent it 5 times straight, then the division is pretty much cleaned out. 

5 times... Rashad to get the belt doesn't count, so who is left?

*Shogun
Rampage *(If he ever stops thinking he can act and gets back to what got him where he is today)
*Forrest* (if he can get his shit straight and dominate Tito)
*Tito *(if he whoops forrest in awesome fashion)
*Silva *(won't happen because of previously stated reasons)
*Rashad* (If he comes back strong for a rematch)
*Thiago Silva* (If he can prove that he isn't as overhyped as I think he is)
*Lil' Nog* (Definitely has the potential to make some waves)
*Randy* (If he can come back like a pheonix in the LHW division yet again)

As you can see, 5 straight title defenses would practically clear out the LHW division because during that time, some of the guy mentioned will have lost to other guys mentioned and won't be worthy of a title shot. I like Machida's way of thinking.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

If he cleans out the division, even if Brock isn't champion, I'd still pay to watch it. 

At least he is taking it one thing at a time. If Penn had beaten Florian first, I don't think anyone would have had a problem w/ the Penn / GSP fight.


----------



## alizio

i'd also like the announce my intention to fight Brock Lesnar if i can stick to my workout routine for 5 straight days...... blah, that's not happening either.


----------



## locnott

I wonder how much it would cost? (not that I have any money).
Dont think it would be to much fun being a partner with Dana White.


----------



## Charles Lee Ray

Thanks for reminding the forum. I had no idea this was going to be on. Rep! :thumb02:


----------



## Danm2501

For fellow UK fans we get to see it on Wednesday at 10:30pm on ESPN. The TUF Season 1 replay on ESPN Classic is on at the same time as well, 3rd episode I believe. Awesome


----------



## The Horticulturist

Pretty sweet call here for Machida. Makes for a pretty awesome buildup video that's for sure. 

That being said........ this should take about 2 years. Machida looks perfect so far, but I wonder how good Lesnar will be in 2 years.


----------



## The Horticulturist

Shane MacMahon  Honestly though, I expect him to put some money into Strikeforce.


----------



## Curly

Well now I know what to do with that $5,000 :thumbsup: 

Me and Dana are going to rule the world! No, let me change that, me and Dana and CharlieZ are going to rule the world!!!

*Curly, Dana and CharlieZ < Obama*


----------



## chinwaggler

There was a thread on this a while ago I think it was in the high millions.. maybe hundreds but I can't really remember..


----------



## locnott

SuicideJohnson said:


> Shane MacMahon  Honestly though, I expect him to put some money into Strikeforce.


That would be cool.
I think Strikeforce being around a is a good thing.(a little more now since Hendo is being let go) I think that is a bad move on Dana's part..IMO..


----------



## Scorch

Finklstein? :confused02:


----------



## coldcall420

Danm2501 said:


> For fellow UK fans we get to see it on Wednesday at 10:30pm on ESPN. The TUF Season 1 replay on ESPN Classic is on at the same time as well, 3rd episode I believe. Awesome


 
Thank you sir for adding that.......repped:thumbsup:


----------



## Xerxes

locnott said:


> I wonder how much it would cost? (not that I have any money).
> Dont think it would be to much fun being a partner with Dana White.


Really depends on the valuation of the company (which can be found in different ways).

If the UFC owners say their company is worth $1 billion then a 10% stake would cost $100 million. 

If I had to take a guess (from Dana's own words), I'd say they value their company a lot higher than 1 billion though.


----------



## joshua7789

Well, heres M1's chance. I dont know what there financial situation is like though, not sure if they could afford this.


----------



## Xerxes

Thanks for the heads up CC, I won't miss it.


----------



## Curly

...if CharlieZ wins his next fight we might could pool our money and get it up to like $9,000 but that about as much as we could come up with. :confused02:


----------



## Kreed

Xerxes said:


> Really depends on the valuation of the company (which can be found in different ways).
> 
> If the UFC owners say their company is worth $1 billion then a 10% stake would cost $100 million.
> 
> If I had to take a guess (from Dana's own words), I'd say they value their company a lot higher than 1 billion though.


I don’t really know a whole lot about this stuff but I imagine if someone was going to take zuffa up on their offer they would have to go through the books first, no? Because I honestly do not believe for a second that the ufc has it stands now is worth anywhere near a billion..

And another interesting bit was where dana said that he is willing to give up 10 to 15% of a stake in the company for a guy to shut up and be a silent partner..First of if the guy had 15% in the company wouldnt that mean he had more stroke than dana? who the fuk would spend all that money and just be a mute?

This whole thing seems very weird and out of the blue, either they are strapped for cash or there is something more than meets the eye


----------



## FiReMaN11d7

Wow Dana...


----------



## moldy

Lets see what happens when he fights shogan. I dont see him making it pass the second round. But who knows. That is a lot of weight to give up if he was to fight broc. And the diffrence in strength is huge. If broc took him down could machida get up. Or would he have to weather a 5 minute storm?


----------



## SSD

I'm sure Machida could stick and move for a little while and keep away from Brock's takedown. However, even Machida's TDD can't do anything in this fight and once he is caught, it will be over. I actually wouldn't like to see this fight. I think by then, if it ever happens, Fedor/Brock will already have happened and I am sure that if Fedor can't beat Brock, no one can--even Machida.

If he does try to fight for the title, I'd like to see him have two practice fights at HW. Assuming Fedor never comes to the UFC and Brock is still champ, I think two could fights to prove his style is effective at HW would be against Frank Mir and Carwin. Tough fights but imagine if he beat both them? Can you imagine the buy-rates on a Lesnar/Machida match? This is all fantasy and probably won't happen but I definitely don't want to see Machida fed to the wolves by fighting a man who is 60 lbs more than him.


----------



## Smiley Face

Lyoto, what will you do when Brock is on top of you on the ground?

Same question goes for Anderson.


----------



## JiPi

Smiley Face said:


> Lyoto, what will you do when Brock is on top of you on the ground?
> 
> Same question goes for Anderson.


Realize it was a bad idea.


----------



## WhatsLeft

JiPi said:


> Realize it was a bad idea.


LOL. 

I respect Machida's outlook on the whole thing..but all this fight would do is create more angry "brock just wins due to size" threads.

No one in their right mind would make a gameplan for Brock to standup with Machida. If Machida doesnt catch him on his chin like Frank Mir sorta did in their second fight when Brock shoots..Brock wins the fight 10/10.
Someone mentioned Lyoto bulking up before in another thread..whats he going to do?Bulk to about 230ish and just make his bread and butter even more useless because he then becomes slower...while still being way lighter than the guys Brocks been throwing around like dolls.
Brock isnt just a big dumb ogre..hes a fast athletic big dumb ogre who will eventually drag machida to the ground and pound his face in. What is machida going to do..sweep a 300 lb Brock? lol


----------



## Gluteal Cleft

Wow. A Machida fight I would actually like to see... and where I'd like to see him win. Smart move on his part!


----------



## WhatsLeft

Another thing..i think some people see Anderson silva/rich franklin move up to LHW and think moving up to HW from LHW is similar when its not . 20 lb jump to LHW and 65 lb jump to HW. Anderson silva had to face a "big" LHW in a 215 lb (tops) forrest where as brock is going to probably be around 285. This isn't 2006/7 where champs were turds like Tim sylvia who are a sloppy immobile 265. The HW division is getting stacked with freakish athletes who cut to or are at the border of 265 like brock,carwin,duffee, etc. You thought bj penn got owned by gsp..it would be worse for machida IMO


----------



## zath the champ

Thank you sir. I totally forgot until this thread popped up.


----------



## Wookie

Hell yeah, I kept checking ONDemand for it but never could find it except for the cheap three minute one. Should be interesting. THANKS!


----------



## khoveraki

Smiley Face said:


> Lyoto, what will you do when Brock is on top of you on the ground?
> 
> Same question goes for Anderson.


Thanks for further instilling this "Brock's take-downs are unstoppable" theory. Give me a break, the only guy he's faced with good TDD is Couture. Who was 50lbs lighter and could stuff them no problem. 

That's why I want to see the Couture/Machida fight so bad. Machida's sumo is really impressive but not super tested against any wrestler besides Tito. Tito's a good grappler, but not Couture's level.


----------



## BouncyJones

Machida could take Lesnar, and I would bet the farm on it. Lesnar hasn't shown one punch knockout power, and would be susceptible to trips.

Todd Duffee though could give Machida problems.


----------



## dudeabides

Can't wait for the fights so this should keep things interesting until they get here. Just remind those mania guys who wrote that, Neer is fighting in place of Sean Sherk.


----------



## Wookie

I agree, this is strange news. Hopefully they aren't in that bad of a posistion. I thought Dana only owned 10% of the company anyways?


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

khoveraki said:


> Thanks for further instilling this "Brock's take-downs are unstoppable" theory. Give me a break, the only guy he's faced with good TDD is Couture. Who was 50lbs lighter and could stuff them no problem.


Couture was a three time olympic alternate for greco-roman wrestling. It's not like it was Kongo who was stuffing his takedowns.


----------



## WhatsLeft

khoveraki said:


> Thanks for further instilling this "Brock's take-downs are unstoppable" theory. Give me a break, the only guy he's faced with good TDD is Couture. Who was 50lbs lighter and could stuff them no problem.
> 
> That's why I want to see the Couture/Machida fight so bad. Machida's sumo is really impressive but not super tested against any wrestler besides Tito. Tito's a good grappler, but not Couture's level.


Well how did that fight pan out for Couture? He eventually ended up on his back being hammerfisted. And Machida will probably be way more than 50 lbs lighter . He fought Penn at a sloppy 220. If he bulks up to deal with brocks size..it will slow him down and wear on his cardio.


BouncyJones said:


> Machida could take Lesnar, and I would bet the farm on it. Lesnar hasn't shown one punch knockout power, and would be susceptible to trips.
> 
> Todd Duffee though could give Machida problems.


Todd duffee? Oh, because of KO power..If machida easily evades LHWS what makes you think a HW is going to land one flush on Machida. A HWS best bet is using his size, outmuscle machida to the ground and pound him out..and hope to god he doesnt get back up


----------



## khoveraki

Sicilian_Esq said:


> Couture was a three time olympic alternate for greco-roman wrestling. It's not like it was Kongo who was stuffing his takedowns.


But Couture also got thrown around like a ragdoll by Nog.



WhatsLeft said:


> Well how did that fight pan out for Couture? He eventually ended up on his back being hammerfisted. And Machida will probably be way more than 50 lbs lighter . He fought Penn at a sloppy 220. If he bulks up to deal with brocks size..it will slow him down and wear on his cardio.


Well Couture is not a great striker, and there was a MAJOR reach advantage. Plus that was a sloppy hit to the back of Couture's head, not much to brag about. Weight would not be a deciding factor in this fight for Machida, and he weighed in at 199 before. Certainly not a big LHW.



> Todd duffee? Oh, because of KO power..If machida easily evades LHWS what makes you think a HW is going to land one flush on Machida. A HWS best bet is using his size, outmuscle machida to the ground and pound him out..and hope to god he doesnt get back up


Agreed on all accounts here. You can't just say "a HW is bigger and hits harder." Guys like Duffee, JDS, etc are much MUCH slower than Machida.


----------



## Wookie

I hate to even say it but I would want Brock to win this fight just so I didn't have to hear all the shit from Machida is god nuthuggers. Lesnar has no buisness fighting LHW's that think they can deal with the weight difference. 40+ lbs = too much of a difference to be competitive.


----------



## BouncyJones

WhatsLeft said:


> Todd duffee? Oh, because of KO power..If machida easily evades LHWS what makes you think a HW is going to land one flush on Machida. A HWS best bet is using his size, outmuscle machida to the ground and pound him out..and hope to god he doesnt get back up


I respectfully disagree. Someone like Duffee could swing his arms about and just the sheer collision of it would shake Machida big time. I don't see this happening with Lesnar.

Even if Duffee is much slower, there comes a point where he will get in some sort of clinch type of situation and he could definitely rock Machida. Besides, Machida won't be able to knock him down that easily, but I definitely think Lesnar would be susceptible to Machida's trips.

Junior Dos Santos doesn't have that extra level of size that someone like Duffee has.

Carwin is definitely pretty slow though.

I won't say anymore, for risk of it looking it like trolling or taking the thread off track. I love this website.


----------



## WhatsLeft

BouncyJones said:


> I respectfully disagree. Someone like Duffee could swing his arms about and just the sheer collision of it would shake Machida big time. I don't see this happening with Lesnar.
> 
> Even if Duffee is much slower, there comes a point where he will get in some sort of clinch type of situation and he could definitely rock Machida. Besides, Machida won't be able to knock him down that easily, but I definitely think Lesnar would be susceptible to Machida's trips.
> 
> Junior Dos Santos doesn't have that extra level of size that someone like Duffee has.
> 
> Carwin is definitely pretty slow though.
> 
> I won't say anymore, for risk of it looking it like trolling or taking the thread off track. I love this website.


Lesnar hasn't Koed anyone because he loves those hammerfists and probably isnt confident in his standup. I'm pretty sure by the way he knocked herring on his ass with that straight..he has some power.
I dont even like Machida..I hope that "blitzkrieg" attack works this saturday if shogun applies it..but so far aggressive fighters have been put to shame by Machida. Dont know why or how it would work for Duffee. Tons of guys have waited for that "moment" with Machida and it hasnt came yet. Todd duffee hasnt been past the 2 min mark of the 2nd round..his gas tank is at question..and im sure it would drain substantially trying to swing wildy at machida. Sorry to derail


----------



## Xerxes

Kreed said:


> I don’t really know a whole lot about this stuff but I imagine if someone was going to take zuffa up on their offer they would have to go through the books, no? Because I honestly do not believe for a second that the ufc has it stands now is worth anywhere near a billion..


Yeah they'd have to go through the books thus disclose all of their financial info to their potential investors. 

Then you have different ways of valuing a company. If you check out the "Examples of Positive factors that raise multipliers" section you'll see that almost all of them apply to the UFC. 

Tbh I have no idea how much profit they make each year but by doing some rough calculations you realize that they generate around $400-500 million in PPV revenue only (12 PPVs/year x 700K PPV buys in average x $50). That's assuming they don't lie on their PPV figures.. 

Add to this all the sponsorship, merchandising, live gate, advertising revenue they share with Spike for each TUF, re-air, UFN event etc. and you realize that they generate well over $500 million in revenue/year. 

So yeah, I'd say the UFC is definitely worth $1 billion. 

The Fertitta brothers suggested the UFC was worth $700 million, and that article was first issued back in November 2006, 3 years ago. They certainly value their company a lot higher now that they are bigger.

Let's say they want to sell a 10% stake in their company for $300 million, that'd mean they think their business is worth $3 billion. If they can find an investor who's willing to buy that stake at that price, then that'd "officially" set the value of the UFC at $3 billion. 



> And another interesting bit was where dana said that he is willing to give up 10 to 15% of a stake in the company for a guy to shut up and be a silent partner..First of all if the guy had 15% in the company wouldnt that mean he had more stroke than dana? who the fuk would spend all that money and just be a mute..


Dana is a minority owner AND the president of the company, so he also supervises and runs the operations. 



> This whole thing seems very weird and out of the blue, either they are strapped for cash or there is something more than meets the eye





Wookie said:


> I agree, this is strange news. Hopefully they aren't in that bad of a posistion. I thought Dana only owned 10% of the company anyways?


Or maybe they just need cash for their future international projects?


----------



## coldcall420

Shit I missed it anyone got a link?????:confused02:


----------



## name goes here

Isn't it to a succesful company's advantage to sell shares?


----------



## Xerxes

Nobody was streaming it over at justin.tv 

They'll put it up on ufc.com later tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## coldcall420

alizio said:


> i'd also like the announce my intention to fight Brock Lesnar if i can stick to my workout routine for 5 straight days...... blah, that's not happening either.


 
Do you ever post anything that actually is relevant to the conversation???



Smiley Face said:


> Lyoto, what will you do when Brock is on top of you on the ground?
> 
> Same question goes for Anderson.


Well, Anderson wouldnt ever get him there, but the answer if for some odd reason Anderson were to try to take that fight to the ground would be...Lyoto would use his BJJ, probably get back to his feet and begin to strike again, but I doubt they would hit the ground. As far as Brock, obviously the only way is to avoid being taken down and that would involve alot of movement.....very tough!!!



WhatsLeft said:


> Another thing..i think some people see Anderson silva/rich franklin move up to LHW and think moving up to HW from LHW is similar when its not . 20 lb jump to LHW and 65 lb jump to HW. Anderson silva had to face a "big" LHW in a 215 lb (tops) forrest where as brock is going to probably be around 285. This isn't 2006/7 where champs were turds like Tim sylvia who are a sloppy immobile 265. The HW division is getting stacked with freakish athletes who cut to or are at the border of 265 like brock,carwin,duffee, etc. You thought bj penn got owned by gsp..it would be worse for machida IMO


 

Anderson said he wants to fight Mir and his manager said he would only need to gain about 20lbs.....We are talking a guy that fights at 185 fighting Frank Mir at HW.....

It is possible....not somthing you'll see often but doable....:thumbsup:


----------



## coldcall420

Xerxes said:


> Nobody was streaming it over at justin.tv
> 
> They'll put it up on ufc.com later tonight or tomorrow.


 
...:thumbsup:


----------



## Finnsidious

Wookie said:


> I hate to even say it but I would want Brock to win this fight just so I didn't have to hear all the shit from Machida is god nuthuggers. Lesnar has no buisness fighting LHW's that think they can deal with the weight difference. 40+ lbs = too much of a difference to be competitive.


 If Lesnar had any sense at all he would run from this fight like he was on fire. It's the ultimate no win situation for him. If he wins, it's because he outweighs his opponent by 100 pounds, and he gains nothing at all in terms of reputation or career advancement. If he loses, he is a laughing stock.

Fortunately, from what I've seen of Lesnar in interviews and such, he is clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed, so he might actually be dumb enough to take this fight. Too bad Dana won't ever let it happen.


----------



## Carlitoz3

Brock or Silva. Either would be one hell of a fight.


----------



## Quinton Jackson

Watching it right now, a couple things I noticed:

Shogun said he has a black belt in muay thai. I was under the impression muay thai didn't have a ranking system.

Dana White said they were two of the most technical strikers in the business. I'll admit I don't really understand the technical aspects of standup and I've never really watched Shogun fight but from wut I've heard a lot of people here say, his striking isn't really technical.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

I hate when Dana says crap like "this is gonna be a stand-up war. No wrestling, no grappling." How the hell does he know? Listen, I know Dana wants to sell the fight and obviously promoting the fight as a stand-up war will hype the fight...but good god have common sense. Both Machida and Shogun are skilled on the ground and there is no reason to believe this is 100% going to be a stand-up fight.

That's just aggrovating. Like, have we ever heard anyone say "this is going to be a grappling fight. No wrestling, no striking, pure grappling." No, we haven't. I swear it's gotten to the point where fighters now think MMA in the US is strictly stand-up. For example, when Roy submitted Kimbo on TUF, Rampage and his guys were going something of the likes "all he did was take you down and use his weight against you" as if it's against the rules or..god forbid, unethical to take the fight to the ground these days against a PRIMARILY stand-up fighter. What kind of excuse is that? "He was more skilled than you on the ground, you should have won." Bleh.

But I digress, this was a good preview show for sure and I'm pumped.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

Who knows if Brock will be on top after 5 defenses. I have no doubts Machida can defend the belt 5 times. Brock, hard to say. I'm down for it though, although I think it's kind of silly for Machida.


----------



## joshua7789

If he defends his title five times and is in a position to fight Brock, that would probably mean Brock had defended his title about the same number of times. Brock has looked a lot better in each of his fights. I think he is going to look pretty unstoppable five fights from now if he continues to progress at this rate (given his success in collegiate wrestling, id say its a fare bet that Brock trains like a madman). His huge physical advantages over Machida on top of some good mma skills would be far to much. If a large, bjj centered heavyweight like Mir couldnt do anything to get out from underneath Brock, what luck is Machida going to have? Machida is a natural lhw, he isnt going to be able to add enough extra weight to compensate for the size advantage he would be giving up in this fight without sacrificing a good deal of quickness. This kind of seems like the second GSP/Penn fight, i think bj is one of the most skilled martial artists in the world, but you can only do so much to overcome a huge physical mismatch.


----------



## M.C

I agree with the above post.

Also, the countdown was sick.


----------



## Couchwarrior

Quinton Jackson said:


> Shogun said he has a black belt in muay thai. I was under the impression muay thai didn't have a ranking system.


Chute Boxe have their own MT ranking system. I don't think a black belt in MT means that much when there's only one camp that has them, but Shogun always brings up his belt in interviews, so I guess he probably had to work a lot to get it.


----------



## Soojooko

coldcall420 said:


> As far as Brock, obviously the only way is to avoid being taken down and that would involve alot of movement.....very tough!!!


Here in lies the truth. Machida Karate leans heavily towards foot movement and balance. If Lyoto pulls it off, he knows this will kick his family name up into the stratosphere. I've always got the impression from the interviews that representing Machida karate is a big big thing for him.

I agree with the notion that it's a bad fight for Brock. Assuming he goes 5 fights undefeated at HW, why would he take the fight and risk tarnishing his own legacy by getting beaten up by the little guy? The UFC would have to pay him BIG.


----------



## alizio

coldcall420 said:


> Do you ever post anything that actually is relevant to the conversation???
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Anderson wouldnt ever get him there, but the answer if for some odd reason Anderson were to try to take that fight to the ground would be...Lyoto would use his BJJ, probably get back to his feet and begin to strike again, but I doubt they would hit the ground. As far as Brock, obviously the only way is to avoid being taken down and that would involve alot of movement.....very tough!!!
> 
> 
> 
> BTW im ready for the neg rep from all the childish Machida fanboys who think anybody that doesnt worship at his feet and his one top five win isnt worthy of posting. It just goes further to prove the childishness of his fans that they feel they need to disrespect anybody that thinks he could/will be beaten....
> 
> Anderson said he wants to fight Mir and his manager said he would only need to gain about 20lbs.....We are talking a guy that fights at 185 fighting Frank Mir at HW.....
> 
> It is possible....not somthing you'll see often but doable....:thumbsup:


 i wonder if Machida has a stake in this forum... i mean.... how the hell did you become a Mod.... you nuthuggery is blatent and childish... any Machida thread... anybody makes a joke or disagrees, you hit them with BS after BS "facts" about how he is the greatest thing ever.... lol, one top 5 win.... better get ready for Brock kid.... i mean, it isnt presumptious, ridiculous and insane to even mention Brock.... nevermind FIVE TITLE DEFENSES... nah this is an automatic for Machida... your blinded by your love for him.... i was making a joke... about as ridiculous as Machida's statement or your undying defense/man love of him.... i look forward to him losing the title, your excuses and crying.... you sound like a 13 year old boy whenever you talk about him.... he hasnt proved anything near what you seem to think he has, but now is his chance, and fans like you are making it sound like he already did it.... kinda like crowning MJ the greatest baller ever after only 1 championship.... cant do it sir, watch your boy lose soon and guarantee ill be there to laugh at you.


----------



## Kreed

name goes here said:


> Isn't it to a succesful company's advantage to sell shares?


but the money with now be split 4 ways as oppose to 3


Xerxes said:


> Yeah they'd have to go through the books thus disclose all of their financial info to their potential investors.
> 
> Then you have different ways of valuing a company. If you check out the "Examples of Positive factors that raise multipliers" section you'll see that almost all of them apply to the UFC.
> 
> Tbh I have no idea how much profit they make each year but by doing some rough calculations you realize that they generate around $400-500 million in PPV revenue only (12 PPVs/year x 700K PPV buys in average x $50). That's assuming they don't lie on their PPV figures..
> 
> Add to this all the sponsorship, merchandising, live gate, advertising revenue they share with Spike for each TUF, re-air, UFN event etc. and you realize that they generate well over $500 million in revenue/year.
> 
> So yeah, I'd say the UFC is definitely worth $1 billion.
> 
> The Fertitta brothers suggested the UFC was worth $700 million, and that article was first issued back in November 2006, 3 years ago. They certainly value their company a lot higher now that they are bigger.
> 
> Let's say they want to sell a 10% stake in their company for $300 million, that'd mean they think their business is worth $3 billion. If they can find an investor who's willing to buy that stake at that price, then that'd "officially" set the value of the UFC at $3 billion.
> 
> 
> 
> Dana is a minority owner AND the president of the company, so he also supervises and runs the operations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or maybe they just need cash for their future international projects?


:thumb02:


----------



## name goes here

Kreed said:


> but the money with now be split 4 ways as oppose to 3 :thumb02:


But you get money so you can expand the company. I thought shareholders only got interest on the value of the shares, not a percentage of the profits... I dunno


----------



## Uchaaa

Michael Carson said:


> I agree with the above post.
> 
> Also, the countdown was sick.


I think it sucked. Iam not interested in the background of fighters, I want to see how they train.


----------



## coldcall420

alizio said:


> i wonder if Machida has a stake in this forum... i mean.... how the hell did you become a Mod.... you nuthuggery is blatent and childish... any Machida thread... anybody makes a joke or disagrees, you hit them with BS after BS "facts" about how he is the greatest thing ever.... lol, one top 5 win.... better get ready for Brock kid.... i mean, it isnt presumptious, ridiculous and insane to even mention Brock.... nevermind FIVE TITLE DEFENSES... nah this is an automatic for Machida... your blinded by your love for him.... i was making a joke... about as ridiculous as Machida's statement or your undying defense/man love of him.... i look forward to him losing the title, your excuses and crying.... you sound like a 13 year old boy whenever you talk about him.... he hasnt proved anything near what you seem to think he has, but now is his chance, and fans like you are making it sound like he already did it.... kinda like crowning MJ the greatest baller ever after only 1 championship.... cant do it sir, watch your boy lose soon and guarantee ill be there to laugh at you.


 
Like I said are you going to post anything relevant. Being a mod and the Avy or Sig I rock is irrelevant to this issue of Machida. Unlike yourself and obviously you dont read as I stated this already, but if he were to lose to Shogun or when he does lose I would prob have the 1st thread on the issue....

Discussing what went wrong or what got exposedand being a Shotokan Blackbelt myself and currently employing some of Machida's techniques to my training only helps to identify with his skills. I sound like a 13 yr old boy when I talk about him.....why cuz I respond with backed up facts???

I also stated I think he would lose to Brock....so stay hot!! 

As far as your tantrum you posted......LMAO

FTR.....Most of your posts are 1 liners that really add nothing in terms of information to the thread topic was my point....

Not only this thread, but many, might be why your rep is weak and for the most part why people dismiss your posts.....

Thats just some FYI for Ya!!!:thumbsup:



*Alizio????* Care for a sig bet? I'll bet you that Lyoto defends his belt at least twice. If im wrong you can wrie whatever you want in my sig and I'll rock it for a month. If I'm correct, you will rock whatever I want in your sig for a month. Are you down or not???


----------



## coldcall420

I missed the dam countdown *5k* to whoever can bring me a link that works!!!!!


----------



## Xerxes

Countdown's up on ufc.com :thumbsup:




Quinton Jackson said:


> Dana White said they were two of the most technical strikers in the business. I'll admit I don't really understand the technical aspects of standup and I've never really watched Shogun fight but from wut I've heard a lot of people here say, his striking isn't really technical.


You're right. 

Shogun's hands aren't that technical and his defense leaves much to be desired (though it looked good against Chuck).


----------



## WhatsLeft

alizio said:


> i wonder if Machida has a stake in this forum... i mean.... how the hell did you become a Mod.... you nuthuggery is blatent and childish... any Machida thread... anybody makes a joke or disagrees, you hit them with BS after BS "facts" about how he is the greatest thing ever.... lol, one top 5 win.... better get ready for Brock kid.... i mean, it isnt presumptious, ridiculous and insane to even mention Brock.... nevermind FIVE TITLE DEFENSES... nah this is an automatic for Machida... your blinded by your love for him.... i was making a joke... about as ridiculous as Machida's statement or your undying defense/man love of him.... i look forward to him losing the title, your excuses and crying.... you sound like a 13 year old boy whenever you talk about him.... he hasnt proved anything near what you seem to think he has, but now is his chance, and fans like you are making it sound like he already did it.... kinda like crowning MJ the greatest baller ever after only 1 championship.... cant do it sir, watch your boy lose soon and guarantee ill be there to laugh at you.


Yeah ive noticed he's smart but VERY biased towards machida..saying he's above andersons level...saying machidas dad claims he's more technical than anderson. Where he read that at I dont know.

Machida wont defend his belt 5 more times. Wow, he hasnt lost a round in the UFC. Everyone gets all wrapped on machida because he beat two undefeated fighters in rashad and thiago.

Rashad-good fighter but not as great as everyone puts him out to be. 3/4 of his wins are cans or irrelevant fighters. He got where he is using wrestling not striking..Just because he knocked out liddel doesnt mean much according to most these days..Shogun did it and when people use it as an argument its shot down.

Thiago- Dont let his little mean face and throat slash fool you. he will never be a threat to the LHW title . He beat, jardine, irvin, and alexander!!:sarcastic12:

Sokky- seemed impressive at the time but sokky turned out to be a bust with some fluke wins.

tito ortiz- Impressed me that he stuffed all of Titos wrestling but not that he beat him standing

Nakamura- record of 13-10 .enough said

Heath- Who??

Hoger- Hoger lost to vernon white. enough said.


The way people put machida on all this p4p stuff is annoying. GSP, silva, fedor have cleaned out their divisions for years while machida just got to the top of his. I'd be on machidas sac too if he came through UFC and dominated Hendo, rampage, rashad,shogun,wanderlei, and chuck (2/3 years ago). But he hasnt..when he defends his belt impressively at least two more times I might change butnot at the moment


----------



## GMK13

i would def watch the fight. but i cant see someone significantly smaller beating brock anytime soon .


----------



## Xerxes

Kreed said:


> but the money with now be split 4 ways as oppose to 3


As name goes here pointed out, you get to increase your revenue and profit. 

You have to think about it this way (from Dana's perspective): do you prefer having 10% of a big pie, or 10% of a much bigger pie? 

They are considering selling a stake to get to the next level (improve their market shares in NA/UK and go after new markets).



name goes here said:


> But you get money so you can expand the company. I thought shareholders only got interest on the value of the shares, not a percentage of the profits... I dunno


From what I understand you get a % of the annual net profit.


----------



## Uchaaa

coldcall420 said:


> I missed the dam countdown *5k* to whoever can bring me a link that works!!!!!


www.ufc.com


----------



## coldcall420

Uchaaa said:


> www.ufc.com


 
Thanks dude but Xerxes beat ya....:thumbsup: I'll toss u 5 anyway!!! X...I tossed u 5 s well!!!


----------



## coldcall420

name goes here said:


> Isn't it to a successful company's advantage to sell shares?


Yes, but our economy isn't great right now and the company dug itself out of debt while still being privately owned. Also if they take the company public(IPO) they will not own the company, or at least the % that the public does, then they have to do the things the public wants......Dana will never bring the UFC public, nor would the Fertittas....if they haven't yet they dont need to now......If anything they wold have done it when they first started in an effort to increase value.



Kreed said:


> but the money with now be split 4 ways as oppose to 3 :thumb02:


The money would be split in accordance with the % that each respective party holds....



name goes here said:


> But you get money so you can expand the company. I thought shareholders only got interest on the value of the shares, not a percentage of the profits... I dunno


The intrest you get is like a dividend, the valuation of the stock will rise as revenue and popularity of the the Company grow. Obviously what the share holder is partaking in are the total net revenues of the company...


The time to bring the UFC public has passed,(see below) and frankly, they made it through that time. There is no need for "the public" to own this company and allow shareholders(literally hundreds of thousands of share holders) bitch or try to enact policy of a company through shareholder meetings would make that one hair that still grows on Dana's head vanish...

They are much more likely to be looking for a "silent" partner that see's the current state of the company and doesn't have a problem keeping his mouth shut and participating in the collection of profits the entire time. 

I suspect that Dana and the UFC are doing this to decrease their risk at this point and also perpetuate the growth of the UFC internationally......like in the Philippines, Brazil and Australia:thumbsup:


----------



## Xerxes

Thanks CC, you didn't have to do that. 

Did you like the countdown?


----------



## Xerxes

Dana clarifies his position:



> “This is [expletive] bad; it’s not what I said. Here’s the bottom line: Basically, it was a longer story and he kept asking if we would sell this thing or not. I kept saying ‘No. No, we won’t sell it,’ and I’d go through this whole [expletive] thing about how we’re all 40 years old and we’re young and we’re the visionaries for this thing. We know where we’re taking this thing. We know where it’s going. We have no interest in selling it. And going public? We don’t need the [expletive] money. You go public when you want to raise cash. You raise capital to do something bigger. We don’t want to do that. We’re not looking to do that. He kept [expletive] pushing and pushing. He said, ‘OK, hypothetically speaking, would you ever sell a piece of it?’ I said, ‘I guess we’d sell a tiny little piece. We’d probably sell a tiny little piece.’ But, here’s the thing: I want it to be known that this guy kept pushing me and pushing me. I said ‘No, we wouldn’t go public. No, we wouldn’t sell it.’ At the end of the day, we’re the guys who are driving this thing. We have the vision. We know where we want to take this thing. We’re not interested in selling a piece of this to anybody. Me, Frank and Lorenzo are the three owners. We have an awesome relationship. Everything runs smoothly. It’s perfect. And for us to even offer somebody a piece, it would be the biggest compliment in [expletive] history because they’d have to be a serious strategic partner. It’s the only [expletive] way we’d do it.”


mmamania.com


----------



## coldcall420

Awesome!!!!! That farm Lyoto lives on is amazing to me. It seems so peaceful there, so much in touch with just nature and all the rest of the B/S is removed...

Must have been a great place to grow up:thumbsup:


----------



## VolcomX311

damn, Lyoto is ballzy.


----------



## mohod1982

Why so many expletives Dana?


----------



## Xerxes

coldcall420 said:


> Obviously what the share holder is partaking in are the total net revenues of the company...


Net revenue or net profit?


----------



## coldcall420

mohod1982 said:


> Why so many expletives Dana?


 
Dana ******* White loves to ******* curse. I think he ******* believes that it in some ******* way drives the ******* point home more than a sensible explanation. Either ******* way, you gotta ******* admit, its pretty ******* funny how ******* pissed the guy asking this ******* question was able to get Dana.

:thumbsup:


----------



## coldcall420

Xerxes said:


> Net revenue or net profit?


 
Sorry to me they are kinda the same....Gross revenues would be their earnings minus ebita(earnings before intrest, tax and ammortization) leaving..... 

Net revenues or Profit....to be divided equally amoungst shareholders and also private owners.....you can take only part of a company public if you want....


I think I explained that right....:confused05:

Long Day...:thumbsup:


----------



## Xerxes

Ah I see. 

I think we're talking about the same thing but with different terms. 

I've always called this "net income" (net profit or net loss). Basically total sales or revenue minus cost of sales, expenses and tax. I think the shareholders get a % of that amount.


----------



## alizio

coldcall420 said:


> Like I said are you going to post anything relevant. Being a mod and the Avy or Sig I rock is irrelevant to this issue of Machida. Unlike yourself and obviously you dont read as I stated this already, but if he were to lose to Shogun or when he does lose I would prob have the 1st thread on the issue....
> 
> Discussing what went wrong or what got exposedand being a Shotokan Blackbelt myself and currently employing some of Machida's techniques to my training only helps to identify with his skills. I sound like a 13 yr old boy when I talk about him.....why cuz I respond with backed up facts???
> 
> I also stated I think he would lose to Brock....so stay hot!!
> 
> As far as your tantrum you posted......LMAO
> 
> FTR.....Most of your posts are 1 liners that really add nothing in terms of information to the thread topic was my point....
> 
> Not only this thread, but many, might be why your rep is weak and for the most part why people dismiss your posts.....
> 
> Thats just some FYI for Ya!!!:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> *Alizio????* Care for a sig bet? I'll bet you that Lyoto defends his belt at least twice. If im wrong you can wrie whatever you want in my sig and I'll rock it for a month. If I'm correct, you will rock whatever I want in your sig for a month. Are you down or not???


thx 4 the long "fact" filled post... you do karate. machida does karate, machida is unbeatable... i am dumb, you are smart.... i have tantrums, you are showing unknowledgeable fans the light.... i said he wont defend 3x you wanna bet he will defend 2x.... lol, im on alot of forums, mma and other sports, you are by far the biggest joke of a mod anywhere in terms of nuthugging and getting on ppl for not seeing things to way you do.... Machida didnt deserve a title shot, but alas, nobody else was available.... he hasnt beat ANYBODY of substance except Rashad (who himself was a VERY unproven champion) and to a lesser degree Thiago Silva (jury still out on if he can hang with the true LHW elite aswell). I know decisions over a fat BJ and beat Rich Franklin at 205 might qualify him as a p4p legend in your eyes, dont let your karate training (if thats even tru LOL) blind u even more

let me add, the reason my rep is red (ty for noticing) is little immature fanboys like you that neg rep anybody that doesnt think Machida is god, along with the Brock haters that neg rep anybody that thinks Brock is legit. Just shows the childishness of both fanbases, i have never neg repped anybody, even your nuthugging idiocy.


----------



## VolcomX311

coldcall420 said:


> Well, Anderson wouldnt ever get him there, but the answer if for some odd reason Anderson were to try to take that fight to the ground would be...Lyoto would use his BJJ, probably get back to his feet and begin to strike again, but I doubt they would hit the ground. As far as Brock, obviously the only way is to avoid being taken down and that would involve alot of movement.....very tough!!!


I partially agree with your speculation. I agree it would be painfully hard for Brock (and plausibly impossible) for him to catch Lyoto and bring him to the ground, however, where I disagree is that if Brock was on top, Lyoto isn't getting up. 

Technique or not, the size & strength difference is too great. Go tackle and lay on top of your 12 year old brother who weighs 70lbs less and see if he can manage to get you off. 

If we go with the argument that Lyoto would be around 225-230lbs, then his superior evasive agility can be legitimately called into question, (not to mention gas tank) weighing that much more.


----------



## Devil_Bingo

Although CC can be biased with Machida, Why not? It's obvious it's his favourite fighter. And to say it's laughable he's a mod is stupid. Considering you don't get given a mod spot for nothing :/

On Subject, Machida might be able to stay away from Lesnar. Weight advantage definetly in Brock's favour but if people complain about it then don't go in that division. Lesnar probably would take Machida down and Punish him.


----------



## Smiley Face

So many Machida haters on here... Except for coldcall, Me, the guy with 'bangbus' in his location, and SSD. Only 4 supporters? wtf?

I'm willing to sig & av bet anyone right now dispite my nuthuggery for Shogun that Machida will defend his belt AT LEAST 3 times before someone catches up to him.

Sig/Av bet for 1 year... Come on non believers. :thumb02:


----------



## khoveraki

Wow people are looking pretty shallowly at who Lyoto has beaten. 


He's also outstriked a 190lb BJ Penn in one of his first fights ever, DEMOLISHED Rich Franklin, beat the hell out of Tito, beat Soukoudjou, KO'd an unbeaten Thiago, and KO'd an unbeaten Rashad.

That's four UFC champions, if anyone's keeping count.


----------



## WhatsLeft

khoveraki said:


> Wow people are looking pretty shallowly at who Lyoto has beaten.
> 
> 
> He's also outstriked a 190lb BJ Penn in one of his first fights ever, DEMOLISHED Rich Franklin, beat the hell out of Tito, beat Soukoudjou, KO'd an unbeaten Thiago, and KO'd an unbeaten Rashad.
> 
> That's four UFC champions, if anyone's keeping count.


I give him credit for his wins but I think some people blow those wins out of proportion. 

Rich Franklin is a great win..his only loss in 7 years was to machida.

Bj penn- No. a 190 lb bj penn is a fat bj penn. and lyoto came in around a pudgy 220

Tito- Eh, he destroyed him but Tito is on downside of his career. Who has tito beat worth a damn in past 3 years?

Sokky- Sokky turned out to be a mediocre fighter.

All the champions besides Rashad weren't champions when he fought them.


----------



## alizio

go a step further, none of those "champions" were champions at 205, the division Machida has always fought in (altho i think he could be good at 185 aswell, yet to be proven). 

anyways, i want to make one thing clear, i think Machida is a very good fighter, and his style is awkward and has yet to be "solved". Rashad didnt use his wrestling... it was stupid, but Rashad was a paper champion in alot of ways, and outside of Forrest and a washed up Liddell, doesnt have any overly impressive wins (in fact i had both Liddell and Forrest winning those fights until they got KO'D). 

He has been very impressive his last 2 fights, i really think Shogun is gonna be his biggest test to date, especially if he utilizes his underused ground game inbetween his awkward angle striking. I actually think the opposite of what most ppl think in terms of both Machida and Silva. I think if you give them time to find the distance and your timing, you are at a big disadvantage, i rather bullrush early for a takedown (assuming its a strong ground game fighter, the only kind i think stand a chance vs silva or machida) and try to just make Machida very uncomfortable and find out about his cardio when the fight is being pushed on him..... thats the only time you really find out about a fighter, i look forward to somebody VERY skilled and deadly at 205 getting an advantageous position on him and seeing what happens (i know he NEVER gets hit, he never takes power shots blah blah blah, you know that cant last 4ever right??). If Machida does get in trouble and prove himself the next THREE fights, i will eat my words, and give you sig for a year, but when he loses saturday, you will regret this bet....


----------



## JustLo

Fight goes like this:

Brock gets inside, Lyoto gets some shots off and dazes Brock (much like Frank Mir did). Brock then proceeds to grab and smother him out. 

Lyoto doesn't have one strike knockout power. It took him like four to knock out a dazed Rashad. What's he going to do to a guy so much bigger than him? 

If they were fighting in a wide open field I miiight give the victory to Lyoto, but eventually Lyoto is going to find himself against the cage and dragged down. 

He's not a powerful enough striker to take down a beast like Brock before getting mauled. If Frank Mir punches, elbows, and jumping knee's Brock in the face and STILL gets dragged down, Lyoto will too.


----------



## Smiley Face

JustLo said:


> Fight goes like this:
> 
> Brock gets inside, Lyoto gets some shots off and dazes Brock (much like Frank Mir did). Brock then proceeds to grab and smother him out.
> 
> Lyoto doesn't have one strike knockout power. It took him like four to knock out a dazed Rashad. What's he going to do to a guy so much bigger than him?
> 
> If they were fighting in a wide open field I miiight give the victory to Lyoto, but eventually Lyoto is going to find himself against the cage and dragged down.
> 
> He's not a powerful enough striker to take down a beast like Brock before getting mauled. If Frank Mir punches, elbows, and jumping knee's Brock in the face and STILL gets dragged down, Lyoto will too.


Lets not forget that Frank Mir is a 250 pound man that was firing off those shots at Brock. He took em pretty good.


----------



## coldcall420

alizio said:


> thx 4 the long *"fact"* filled post... you do karate. machida does karate, machida is unbeatable...* i am dumb, you are smart*.... i have tantrums, you are showing unknowledgeable fans the light....* i said he wont defend 3x you wanna bet he will defend 2x.*... lol, I'm on alot of forums, mma and other sports,* you are by far the biggest joke of a mod anywhere in terms of nuthugging and getting on ppl for not seeing things to way you do....* Machida didnt deserve a title shot, but alas, nobody else was available.... he hasn't beat ANYBODY of substance except Rashad (who himself was a VERY unproven champion) and to a lesser degree Thiago Silva (jury still out on if he can hang with the true LHW elite as well). I know decisions over a fat BJ and beat Rich Franklin at 205 might qualify him as a p4p legend in your eyes, *dont let your karate training (if thats even true LOL) blind u even more*
> 
> *let me add, the reason my rep is red (ty for noticing) is little immature fanboys like you that neg rep anybody that doesn't think Machida is god,* along with the Brock haters that neg rep anybody that thinks Brock is legit. Just shows the childishness of both fanbases, i have never neg repped anybody, *even your nuthugging idiocy*.


Let me explain a couple things to you Alizio. I simply asked if you were going to contribute to the thread as opposed to just your one liners that you say"are meant to be funny"

Now allow me to address the b/s points from your crying session. *1ST*-"Fact" was the only accurate word you used to summarize my post....thank you. *2ND*- Your whole "i am dumb and you are smart" comment....if you say so!!! But alto of your posts do the talking so you didn't need to clarify that:thumbsup: *3RD*- I thought you said 5, if you said three let me make it easy.....I'll extend the same Sig bet I proposed before but he must defend the belt 4 times, my reason for stating 2 is if we wait for 4 defenses, you'll be rockin the sig I want next yr....get it???


*4th*- Now understand we can discuss debate or whatever you want about a fight, however YOU are making this personal with your name calling and derogatory remarks, I have not come to you in this manor SO DONT APPROACH me that way. i will be pointing this thread out to the other staff so they can read your remarks as i will not take action against you considering i am involved.....piece of advice, i have posted here yrs and earned a position on staff, not because of who my favorite fighter is and BTW....Staff can have a fav fighter, just cuz I crush you whenever you try to debate me isn't my fault.

When speaking to mods in that manor, or any member.....you are baiting, which is an infractional offense......You have been given no provocation to speak to me like that.......




Devil_Bingo said:


> Although CC can be biased with Machida, Why not? It's obvious it's his favorite fighter. And to say it's laughable he's a mod is stupid. Considering you don't get given a mod spot for nothing :/
> 
> On Subject, Machida might be able to stay away from Lesnar. Weight advantage definitely in Brock's favor but if people complain about it then don't go in that division. Lesnar probably would take Machida down and Punish him.


Thank you....staff are allowed to like fighters as well...:thumbsup:



Smiley Face said:


> So many Machida haters on here... Except for coldcall, Me, the guy with 'bangbus' in his location, and SSD. Only 4 supporters? wtf?
> 
> I'm willing to sig & av bet anyone right now dispite my nuthuggery for Shogun that Machida will defend his belt AT LEAST 3 times before someone catches up to him.
> 
> Sig/Av bet for 1 year... Come on non believers. :thumb02:


...

Funny, I know the dude that owns bangbus, he lives down here and stays on South beach......I have provided members on here with free memberships or trials, but as of late have stopped....:thumb02:



alizio said:


> go a step further, none of those "champions" were champions at 205, the division Machida has always fought in (altho i think he could be good at 185 aswell, yet to be proven).
> 
> anyways, i want to make one thing clear, i think Machida is a very good fighter, and his style is awkward and has yet to be "solved". *Rashad didnt use his wrestling... it was stupid*, but Rashad was a paper champion in alot of ways, and outside of Forrest and a washed up Liddell, doesnt have any overly impressive wins (in fact i had both Liddell and Forrest winning those fights until they got KO'D).
> 
> He has been very impressive his last 2 fights, i really think Shogun is gonna be his biggest test to date, especially if he utilizes his underused ground game inbetween his awkward angle striking. I actually think the opposite of what most ppl think in terms of both Machida and Silva. I think if you give them time to find the distance and your timing, you are at a big disadvantage, i rather bullrush early for a takedown (assuming its a strong ground game fighter, the only kind i think stand a chance vs silva or machida) and try to just make Machida very uncomfortable and find out about his cardio when the fight is being pushed on him..... thats the only time you really find out about a fighter, i look forward to somebody VERY skilled and deadly at 205 getting an advantageous position on him and seeing what happens (i know he NEVER gets hit, he never takes power shots blah blah blah, you know that cant last 4ever right??). If Machida does get in trouble and prove himself the next THREE fights, i will eat my words, and give you sig for a year, but when he loses saturday, you willas well regret this bet....


So were on? Alizio your staements above are not necessary........look above dude this isnt somthing you need to take personal....i.e if you even study Karate(not needed dude)

As far as being smarter than you....maybe......your talking to a 30yr old who has an MBA in Finance, runs an Investment Banking Firm, and has about 35 Brokers who work for me and the lowest earning Broker last yr made about 275K....So if I own that firm......I must be slightly smart.....

Either way......it's okay for a staff member to like a fighter and if someone member whoever they are, posts shit that isn't something true or isn't incorrect....I am not an asshole because i know the correct answer......

So sorry you feel that way, but buddy, the name calling and questioning my position on staff and comparing me to other moderators on other forums......Isnt Gonna Cut It.......the little immature fan boy comment is baiting dude and i haven't addressed you in that manor at all......


Lastly....Rashad did not use his wrestling??? You think he would have been able to take machida down......and you are willing to take the Sig bet.......AWESOME!!!!! LOL Im not a nutthugger dude.....I live on Lyoto's left testicle...no one told you???




Sig Bet On, I dont neg rep people who have a different opinion as that would undermind our entire rep sytem....rep is not cuz you dont agree with someone, rep speaks to the quality of your posts.....EITHER WAY WERE LOCKED INTO THE SIG BET!!!!!:thumbsup:


Do you wanna say three defenses or four???


----------



## swpthleg

alizio said:


> thx 4 the long "fact" filled post... you do karate. machida does karate, machida is unbeatable... i am dumb, you are smart.... i have tantrums, you are showing unknowledgeable fans the light.... i said he wont defend 3x you wanna bet he will defend 2x.... lol, im on alot of forums, mma and other sports, you are by far the biggest joke of a mod anywhere in terms of nuthugging and getting on ppl for not seeing things to way you do.... Machida didnt deserve a title shot, but alas, nobody else was available.... he hasnt beat ANYBODY of substance except Rashad (who himself was a VERY unproven champion) and to a lesser degree Thiago Silva (jury still out on if he can hang with the true LHW elite aswell). I know decisions over a fat BJ and beat Rich Franklin at 205 might qualify him as a p4p legend in your eyes, dont let your karate training (if thats even tru LOL) blind u even more
> 
> let me add, the reason my rep is red (ty for noticing) is little immature fanboys like you that neg rep anybody that doesnt think Machida is god, along with the Brock haters that neg rep anybody that thinks Brock is legit. Just shows the childishness of both fanbases, i have never neg repped anybody, even your nuthugging idiocy.


No, I think it's safe to say that you're red due to name-calling and insulting other members.


----------



## HexRei

Cmon everyone, calm down. No more insults please. Don't make me pull this car over.


----------



## alizio

yea we have a bet....

funny i got positive repped for my joke earlier in the thread... humor is all over this site... but if its against machida and his delusiuonal 5 defense then brock statement, you get your panties in a bunch.... w/e, u started it knocking basically eveyrthing i have ever posted... good one 

guys who brag about $, job titles online are either liars or low self esteem, what does it have anything to do with anything i said? lol


----------



## khoveraki

*Fallacies in this thread:*

-Mir threw "big knees" then got taken down (Mir fell straight down after the second knee, no help from Lesnar)

-Lyoto has zero wrestling background and if Brock touches him he'll fall down

-More weight = better punches

-Machida doesn't have 1 punch KO power (left hook killed Rashad, right falling punch killed Thiago Silva) 

-Lesnar didn't get rocked by those "big knees" from Mir (admitted to see stars and being completely dazed)


----------



## coldcall420

alizio said:


> yea we have a bet....
> 
> funny i got positive repped for my joke earlier in the thread... humor is all over this site... but if its against machida and his delusiuonal 5 defense then brock statement, you get your panties in a bunch.... w/e, u started it knocking basically eveyrthing i have ever posted... good one
> 
> guys who brag about $, job titles online are either liars or low self esteem, what does it have anything to do with anything i said? lol


 

You got pos repped for your joke.....sweet, was it your 1st?? 

You: 



> "*i am dumb, you are smart"*


You:


> "*is little immature fanboys like you*"


My response to your disingenous remarks:



> As far as being smarter than you....maybe......your talking to a 30yr old who has an MBA in Finance, runs an Investment Banking Firm, and has about 35 Brokers who work for me and the lowest earning Broker last yr made about 275K....So if I own that firm......I must be slightly smart.....


 
I wouldn have mentoned my personal business to you but it appeared you were calling my intelect into question so I thought I'd clarify....You do know what an MBA is right?..I only mentioned what my brokers make, my money is none of your concern nor did I mention it....:thumbsup:


----------



## Smiley Face

*Okay... Here it goes:*

*First Title Defense: Mauricio "Shogun" Rua
Second Title Defense: Randy "The Natural" Couture
Third Title Defense: "Sugar" Rashad Evans OR Thiago Silva*

Did I get that right? lol.


----------



## coldcall420

Smiley Face said:


> *Okay... Here it goes:*
> 
> *First Title Defense: Mauricio "Shogun" Rua*
> *Second Title Defense: Randy "The Natural" Couture*
> *Third Title Defense: "Sugar" Rashad Evans OR Thiago Silva*
> 
> Did I get that right? lol.


 
I'm simply too focused on Sat, I dont even know who would be next.....Vera needs another strong win, Randy hasnt done anything to deserve the shot and Rashad....well who the hell knows what the deal is, for all we know Rampage could be back after Rashad fights Thiago and then things would be all messed up.....:thumb02:


----------



## WhatsLeft

Smiley Face said:


> *Okay... Here it goes:*
> 
> *First Title Defense: Mauricio "Shogun" Rua
> Second Title Defense: Randy "The Natural" Couture
> Third Title Defense: "Sugar" Rashad Evans OR Thiago Silva*
> 
> Did I get that right? lol.


No you didnt.


----------



## coldcall420

khoveraki said:


> *Fallacies in this thread:*
> 
> *-Mir threw "big knees" then got taken down (Mir fell straight down after the second knee, no help from Lesnar)*
> 
> *-Lyoto has zero wrestling background and if Brock touches him he'll fall down*
> 
> *-More weight = better punches*
> 
> *-Machida doesn't have 1 punch KO power (left hook killed Rashad, right falling punch killed Thiago Silva) *
> 
> *-Lesnar didn't get rocked by those "big knees" from Mir (admitted to see stars and being completely dazed*)


 
Everything I bolded I agree with...:thumb02: Good post K.


----------



## Smiley Face

coldcall420 said:


> I'm simply too focused on Sat, I dont even know who would be next.....Vera needs another strong win, Randy hasnt done anything to deserve the shot and Rashad....well who the hell knows what the deal is, for all we know Rampage could be back after Rashad fights Thiago and then things would be all messed up.....:thumb02:


Messed up or not, it doesn't matter. Lyoto will straighten things out in no time. :thumb02:


----------



## alizio

obv have no idea what 1 shot KO power is.... look at bisping vs henderson or rampage vs wandy if u wanna see it.... its not having a guy completely rocked and staggering and finishing him off, its just a normal exchange, both guys looking fine, one punch.... KO.... Machida DOES NOT have this, in any way, shape or form, how can you even argue he does??


----------



## Smiley Face

alizio said:


> obv have no idea what 1 shot KO power is.... look at bisping vs henderson or rampage vs wandy if u wanna see it.... its not having a guy completely rocked and staggering and finishing him off, its just a normal exchange, both guys looking fine, one punch.... KO.... Machida DOES NOT have this, in any way, shape or form, how can you even argue he does??


Why would he need to have 1 punch KO Power when his pinpoint accucary is more than enough to KO other 205 pound fighters?


----------



## alizio

Smiley Face said:


> Why would he need to have 1 punch KO Power when his pinpoint accucary is more than enough to KO other 205 pound fighters?


 i never said he needs it, just others are saying he has it, but he clearly doesnt, doesnt mean he cant be great, GSP doesnt have 1 shot KO power either....


----------



## WhatsLeft

Smiley Face said:


> Messed up or not, it doesn't matter. Lyoto will straighten things out in no time. :thumb02:


Yes he will. Be straight on his back..and shogun will be defending his belt in the beginning of next year.


alizio said:


> obv have no idea what 1 shot KO power is.... look at bisping vs henderson or rampage vs wandy if u wanna see it.... its not having a guy completely rocked and staggering and finishing him off, its just a normal exchange, both guys looking fine, one punch.... KO.... Machida DOES NOT have this, in any way, shape or form, how can you even argue he does??


Yeah I dont get where people think this..blliiiiiiiiiiinded by the liiiiiiiiiiightttt. That KO of thiago was due partially to his head rocking against the canvas..even if it wasn't ..one fight doesnt justify KO power. Rashad fight? Dont know what fight these guys were watching..i guess one shot did KO him after 15 dazed him.


----------



## coldcall420

Smiley Face said:


> Messed up or not, it doesn't matter. Lyoto will straighten things out in no time. :thumb02:


Probably close....Shogun, Rashad, not sure...



Smiley Face said:


> Why would he need to have 1 punch KO Power when his pinpoint accucary is more than enough to KO other 205 pound fighters?


 
Nailed it....:thumb02:


----------



## Smiley Face

WhatsLeft said:


> *Yes he will. Be straight on his back..and shogun will be defending his belt in the beginning of next year.*
> 
> 
> Yeah I dont get where people think this..blliiiiiiiiiiinded by the liiiiiiiiiiightttt. That KO of thiago was due partially to his head rocking against the canvas..even if it wasn't ..one fight doesnt justify KO power. Rashad fight? Dont know what fight these guys were watching..i guess one shot did KO him after 15 dazed him.


lol I'm rooting for Shogun but obviously picking Machida which is a smarter bet. I think Machida would be a more dominate champion though. Shogun needs to actually catch Lyoto to beat him... I just hope Lyoto doesn't go to the ground with Shogun unless he is punching his skull in for the KO. Shogun's best chance is to clinch up with Lyoto, land an elbow that rocks him than start kneeing to the body and head.


----------



## coldcall420

alizio said:


> i never said he needs it, just others are saying he has it, but he clearly doesnt, doesnt mean he cant be great, GSP doesnt have 1 shot KO power either....


GSP has 8 K/O wins....



WhatsLeft said:


> Yes he will. Be straight on his back..and shogun will be defending his belt in the beginning of next year.
> 
> 
> Yeah I dont get where people think this..blliiiiiiiiiiinded by the liiiiiiiiiiightttt. That KO of thiago was due partially to his head rocking against the canvas..even if it wasn't ..one fight doesnt justify KO power. Rashad fight? Dont know what fight these guys were watching..i guess one shot did KO him after 15 dazed him.


 
LMAO.....at all of it, today was long and i was in need of a good laugh..:thumbsup:


----------



## alizio

who needs pinpoint accuracy or 1 shot KO power when they have an MBA in finiance and are making millions upon millions in the market all the while training karate at an elite level while schooling ppl in forums.... i think machida should be a fan of you, not the other way around sir!!


----------



## HexRei

Ok, you both made me LOL those last few posts. Can we now agree to disagree, you're both witty alpha males 

PS I own this page.


----------



## swpthleg

alizio said:


> who needs pinpoint accuracy or 1 shot KO power when they have an MBA in finiance and are making millions upon millions in the market all the while training karate at an elite level while schooling ppl in forums.... i think machida should be a fan of you, not the other way around sir!!


I think you can quit baiting. Now.


----------



## Darkwraith

alizio said:


> who needs pinpoint accuracy or 1 shot KO power when they have an MBA in finiance and are making millions upon millions in the market all the while training karate at an elite level while schooling ppl in forums.... i think machida should be a fan of you, not the other way around sir!!


Come on. stop the personal attacks and lets all debate like Civilized people.


----------



## Smiley Face

alizio said:


> who needs pinpoint accuracy or 1 shot KO power when they have an MBA in finiance and are making millions upon millions in the market all the while training karate at an elite level while schooling ppl in forums.... i think machida should be a fan of you, not the other way around sir!!


cool post bro.


----------



## alizio

not trying to bait, i really think its remarkable. i didnt bring it up, but it is worthy of praise!! i will no longer engage in the conversation anymore if it is deemed baiting tho, apoligies!!


----------



## swpthleg

Smiley Face said:


> cool post bro.


It wasn't, and don't try to exacerbate things.


----------



## Darkwraith

alizio said:


> not trying to bait, i really think its remarkable. i didnt bring it up, but it is worthy of praise!! i will no longer engage in the conversation anymore if it is deemed baiting tho, apoligies!!


Its not a 'conversation' if you are deliberately posting inflammatory things and trying to get a rise out of people. So stop. Stick to the topic and discuss MMA.


----------



## alizio

coldcall420 said:


> GSP has 8 K/O wins....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO.....at all of it, today was long and i was in need of a good laugh..:thumbsup:


 again, what dont you get about 1 shot KO power??? it means KOing somebody in one shot... and no, GSP is not known for this. He has plenty of KOs, but outside of kicking hughes in the head i cant really think of many 1 shot ones especiually with his hands that would make anybody think he has one shot KO power.


----------



## Smiley Face

alizio said:


> not trying to bait, i really think its remarkable. i didnt bring it up, but it is worthy of praise!! i will no longer engage in the conversation anymore if it is deemed baiting tho, apoligies!!


I'm done now lol.

the 'cool post bro' was me joking around.


----------



## Darkwraith

Smiley Face said:


> Is the debate over? I guess alizio vs. coldcall420 II won't happen now. It was interesting.
> 
> I'm done now lol.


Yes, you are. Don't try and provoke it while we are trying to get it under control.


----------



## WhatsLeft

alizio said:


> who needs pinpoint accuracy or 1 shot KO power when they have an MBA in finiance and are making millions upon millions in the market all the while training karate at an elite level while schooling ppl in forums.... i think machida should be a fan of you, not the other way around sir!!












thanks for the laugh..i needed it :thumb02:


----------



## coldcall420

alizio said:


> again, what dont you get about 1 shot KO power??? it means KOing somebody in one shot... and no, GSP is not known for this. He has plenty of KOs, but outside of kicking hughes in the head i cant really think of many 1 shot ones especiually with his hands that would make anybody think he has one shot KO power.


 

Look dude, your walkin a thin lne cuz you know exactly what your doing with the baiting....My education , my career were brought up cuz you wanna call me a "boy"...Im a grown man, so Im going to do you a favor right now and agree to disagree with you since you are walkin a real thin line...I'm gonna walk away from this thread and be the adult....

Only.......remeber your comitted to a sig bet.......


----------



## Smiley Face

Darkwraith said:


> Yes, you are. Don't try and provoke it while we are trying to get it under control.


Okay, I get it. I edited it out. *I get it, Okay?* 

Anyways on topic: I think as Machida gets more and more confidence in every fight he'll keep on finishing top fighters ala Thiago, Rashad, etc.


----------



## HexRei

jesus christ, this thread is CHAOS! absolute chaos!


----------



## WhatsLeft

Smiley Face said:


> Okay, I get it. I edited it out. *I get it, Okay?*
> 
> Anyways on topic: I think as Machida gets more and more confidence in every fight he'll keep on finishing top fighters ala Thiago, Rashad, etc.


I think so to bro. I think everyone might as well not waste their time..and cut down to MW with wanderlei.or if they're big like forrest just jump to HW. Dana should just shut down the LHW division and put it in the hall of fame right next to Machidas name..then let him fight Brock


----------



## alizio

coldcall420 said:


> Look dude, your walkin a thin lne cuz you know exactly what your doing with the baiting....My education , my career were brought up cuz you wanna call me a "boy"...Im a grown man, so Im going to do you a favor right now and agree to disagree with you since you are walkin a real thin line...I'm gonna walk away from this thread and be the adult....
> 
> Only.......remeber your comitted to a sig bet.......


 lol my post here is completely mma related.... i never asked about your life, or what u make, u wanna make it public knowledge, imma call u out on it then, i said boy and u go off on some insecure bs stating you life accomplishments and earnings?? seriously.... do you not see how pathetic that is.... why are u baiting me here?? i said Machida doiesnt have 1 shot KO power, u said he and GSP have... yet show no evidence and just call me out saying imma "get in trouble" lol pathetic bro, seriously.. im trying to squash it and get back to mma related stuff and u keep crying and now calliung urself the adult?? lol adults dont brag to random strangers over random arguements about how much $ they make, like it proves their worth is greater then their opponent.... im truely done with you, i feel i have exposed you, and i frankly have a hard time believing anything you say about yourself, not that i care either way, or asked. That or you are overly sensitive like big baby


----------



## coldcall420

Smiley Face said:


> Okay, I get it. I edited it out. *I get it, Okay?*
> 
> Anyways on topic: I think as Machida gets more and more confidence in every fight he'll keep on finishing top fighters ala Thiago, Rashad, etc.


 
Really you got me thinkin.....who would the next 2 be after Shogun??? I see rashad gettin a shot if he beats Thiago, but then I'm not sure??

Thoughts??


----------



## swpthleg

alizio said:


> lol my post here is completely mma related.... i never asked about your life, or what u make, u wanna make it public knowledge, imma call u out on it then, i said boy and u go off on some insecure bs stating you life accomplishments and earnings?? seriously.... do you not see how pathetic that is.... why are u baiting me here?? i said Machida doiesnt have 1 shot KO power, u said he and GSP have... yet show no evidence and just call me out saying imma "get in trouble" lol pathetic bro, seriously.. im trying to squash it and get back to mma related stuff and u keep crying and now calliung urself the adult?? lol adults dont brag to random strangers over random arguements about how much $ they make, like it proves their worth is greater then their opponent.... im truely done with you, i feel i have exposed you, and i frankly have a hard time believing anything you say about yourself, not that i care either way, or asked. That or you are overly sensitive like big baby


What parts of the most recent staff posts didn't you understand?


----------



## Smiley Face

WhatsLeft, how about a sig and av bet for 1 year (10/24/09 to 10/24/10)? How conifedent are you in Shogun winning? I'll take The Urine Drinking Dragon.


----------



## HexRei

alizio said:


> lol my post here is completely mma related.... i never asked about your life, or what u make, u wanna make it public knowledge, imma call u out on it then, i said boy and u go off on some insecure bs stating you life accomplishments and earnings?? seriously.... do you not see how pathetic that is.... why are u baiting me here?? i said Machida doiesnt have 1 shot KO power, u said he and GSP have... yet show no evidence and just call me out saying imma "get in trouble" lol pathetic bro, seriously.. im trying to squash it and get back to mma related stuff and u keep crying and now calliung urself the adult?? lol adults dont brag to random strangers over random arguements about how much $ they make, like it proves their worth is greater then their opponent.... im truely done with you, i feel i have exposed you, and i frankly have a hard time believing anything you say about yourself, not that i care either way, or asked. That or you are overly sensitive like big baby


Ok dude just squash this shit. Take it to PM's or something at the very least. I'd rather not take action so please take this seriously.


----------



## Smiley Face

coldcall420 said:


> Really you got me thinkin.....who would the next 2 be after Shogun??? I see rashad gettin a shot if he beats Thiago, but then I'm not sure??
> 
> Thoughts??


Dana White, the UFC G-Man has said that If Randy beats Vera... He is next for challenging Lyoto's belt.

SOURCE: Search through my posts saying 'That is NOT FAIR'. lol (I forgot the title for the thread, sorry)


----------



## coldcall420

Smiley Face said:


> Dana White, the UFC G-Man has said that If Randy beats Vera... He is next for challenging Lyoto's belt.
> 
> SOURCE: Search through my posts saying 'That is NOT FAIR'. lol (I forgot the title for the thread, sorry)


 
Well that would be the secoond, then I guess a rematch with Rashad would be three....:thumbsup:


----------



## WhatsLeft

Smiley Face said:


> WhatsLeft, how about a sig and av bet for 1 year (10/24/09 to 10/24/10)? How conifedent are you in Shogun winning? I'll take The Urine Drinking Dragon.


I'm down . What do I have to lose? WE already know shogun is a pride juicer who doesnt deserve a shot with bum knee , cant beat coleman easily sorry ass .


----------



## Smiley Face

coldcall420 said:


> Well that would be the secoond, then I guess a rematch with Rashad would be three....:thumbsup:


I want to work out a deal... If I'm right about Lyoto's next 3 defenses... Can I get a free membership? Pretty please? :thumb02: Heh Heh Heh

(Joking)


----------



## coldcall420

Smiley Face said:


> I want to work out a deal... If I'm right about Lyoto's next 3 defenses... Can I get a free membership? Pretty please? :thumb02: Heh Heh Heh
> 
> (Joking)


 
There are three members on this forum that I have just straight up paid for to become members....one of them hadles (except for my current one) all my sig and avy work and the oher 2 I took under my wing and when the time was right, I paid myself to make them lifer's.....


SMODS and ADMINS can only make that call to just give you a free bump and they do it rarely.....

However, if you shine like a star it could def happen, just ask Toxie...:thumb02:


----------



## Smiley Face

WhatsLeft said:


> I'm down . What do I have to lose? WE already know shogun is a pride juicer who doesnt deserve a shot with bum knee , cant beat coleman easily sorry ass .


Making excuses already eh... :confused05:

Okay it is on.


----------



## coldcall420

Xerxes said:


> Ah I see.
> 
> I think we're talking about the same thing but with different terms.
> 
> I've always called this "net income" (net profit or net loss). Basically total sales or revenue minus cost of sales, expenses and tax. I think the shareholders get a % of that amount.


 
whatever that amount is divided by total number of outstanding shares...or "the float" = value per share

so whatever that turns out to be you subtract what originally paid for a shares and there's the profit....


We are basically talkn the same thing like you said....it can depend othe deals you do as well, right now all I sell for the most part are private's, either to be bought out or eventually brought public....

this market is shit.....:confused05:


----------



## WhatsLeft

Smiley Face said:


> Making excuses already eh... :confused05:
> 
> Okay it is on.


Sarcasm is hard to convey on the internet


----------



## Smiley Face

WhatsLeft said:


> Sarcasm is hard to convey on the internet












Even the monkeys love Machida. Why can't you? :wink01:


----------



## WhatsLeft

Smiley Face said:


> Even the monkeys love Machida. Why can't you? :wink01:


I respect Machida and think he's a great fighter. Its not that I hate him...I just don't like him. Same with NFL, steelers win superbowl..i respect them as a team but i'm not going to like them just because they're top dog. And even if it seems foolish to some I will root with my team to beat them.

I want to see machida lose more because of this abundance of new found "machida is god..he can do no wrong" nuthuggery and I like Shogun.


----------



## Breadfan

I like Machida and I surely hope he wins by dominating fashion... but if he loses to Shogun I may giggle to death.


As far as him vs Brock, if it were to happen I do think Brock would dominate. God i hate Brock.


----------



## HexRei

Smiley Face said:


> Even the monkeys love Machida. Why can't you? :wink01:


OMG teh Monkeh loves Machida!


----------



## name goes here

coldcall420 said:


> this market is shit.....:confused05:


http://www.igindex.co.uk/?QPID=114&QPPID=2&gclid=CJegwdnEzZ0CFZoU4wodW2zFrw

Spread betting, make money on others woe. Except it sucks balls as far as I can tell.


----------



## coldcall420

name goes here said:


> http://www.igindex.co.uk/?QPID=114&QPPID=2&gclid=CJegwdnEzZ0CFZoU4wodW2zFrw
> 
> Spread betting, make money on others woe. Except it sucks balls as far as I can tell.


 
I'm doing a private placement right now that is a black box system(dunno if you know what that is) that operates in the Forex market. Its like 87% accurate and does 36 trades over a 24 hr period over three different markets 24 hrs a day....

Were raising about 40 million and looking to sell it to a Citibank or BoA for 500-600 mill......

I'll let you know if someone buys it or we end up doin the IPO.....its called BBC Ventures.....

Let me know if you want I'll email you the prospectus....:thumbsup:


----------



## fakANT

Alright take it easy Machida... jumping the gun a little. I can understand if he had already defended his belt 4 times or something but he hasn't even defended it once and he is already talking about defending 5 times and having a go at Brock.

As others have said assuming Brock continues improving then by the time Machida defends the belt 5 times Brock will have rounded his game out, it's actually pretty pointless to be discussing this fight atm. No one knows how much either fighter will improve/deteriorate to make an accurate prediction this early.

Either way, seeing as Anderson/Machida are such great friends, assuming Machida DOES defend 5 times (as I said before a little premature to judge) they should just swap belts, would love to see either one fighting top level competition in the others division.


----------



## Smiley Face

fakANT said:


> Alright take it easy Machida... jumping the gun a little. I can understand if he had already defended his belt 4 times or something but he hasn't even defended it once and he is already talking about defending 5 times and having a go at Brock.
> 
> As others have said assuming Brock continues improving then by the time Machida defends the belt 5 times Brock will have rounded his game out, it's actually pretty pointless to be discussing this fight atm. No one knows how much either fighter will improve/deteriorate to make an accurate prediction this early.
> 
> *Either way, seeing as Anderson/Machida are such great friends, assuming Machida DOES defend 5 times (as I said before a little premature to judge) they should just swap belts, would love to see either one fighting top level competition in the others division.*


LOL I hadn't thought about it that way before. Great idea. Imagine the fights... Machida vs. Marquardt / Maia / Cote / Bisping.


----------



## coldcall420

fakANT said:


> Alright take it easy Machida... jumping the gun a little. I can understand if he had already defended his belt 4 times or something but he hasn't even defended it once and he is already talking about defending 5 times and having a go at Brock.
> 
> As others have said assuming Brock continues improving then by the time Machida defends the belt 5 times Brock will have rounded his game out, it's actually pretty pointless to be discussing this fight atm. No one knows how much either fighter will improve/deteriorate to make an accurate prediction this early.
> 
> Either way, seeing as Anderson/Machida are such great friends, assuming Machida DOES defend 5 times (as I said before a little premature to judge) they should just swap belts, would love to see either one fighting top level competition in the others division.





Smiley Face said:


> LOL I hadn't thought about it that way before. Great idea. Imagine the fights... Machida vs. Marquardt / Maia / Cote / Bisping.


 

that is a pretty dam good idea...I like your way of thinking....:thumbsup:


----------



## name goes here

I don't think I understood a word of that, (broadly I think I do, but not in any meaningful way) but sounds good. 

Does prospectus mean, bunch of info?

Cool send me the info, I'm interested, but tarded


----------



## swpthleg

Curly said:


> Well now I know what to do with that $5,000 :thumbsup:
> 
> Me and Dana are going to rule the world! No, let me change that, me and Dana and CharlieZ are going to rule the world!!!
> 
> *Curly, Dana and CharlieZ < Obama*


Quoted for awesome, but I think the arrow's facing the wrong way.


----------



## Smiley Face

3 days away guys... Oh boy. :thumb02:


----------



## coldcall420

name goes here said:


> I don't think I understood a word of that, (broadly I think I do, but not in any meaningful way) but sounds good.
> 
> Does prospectus mean, bunch of info?
> 
> Cool send me the info, I'm interested, but tarded


 
Pm me your email Address they are confidential documents.....:thumbsup:

Prospectus is like a Red herring, it discloses all your risk, which with these type of investments.....means everything!!!


----------



## GMK13

*Ufc Not for sale*

this was on yahoo sports, this article i actually believe.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;_ylt=AtjFznYuh0g5rXDuDjUjJHM9Eo14?slug=ki-mmamailbag102009&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


----------



## swpthleg

coldcall420 said:


> Dana ******* White loves to ******* curse. I think he ******* believes that it in some ******* way drives the ******* point home more than a sensible explanation. Either ******* way, you gotta ******* admit, its pretty ******* funny how ******* pissed the guy asking this ******* question was able to get Dana.
> 
> :thumbsup:


I think it's also become a f*cking trademark of his.

I didn't understand much of that whole ownership/IPO thing, but it was fascinating anyway.


----------



## coldcall420

swpthleg said:


> I think it's also become a f*cking trademark of his.
> 
> I didn't understand much of that whole ownership/IPO thing, but it was fascinating anyway.


 
Basically when we sell it, your 25k would be worth 125k.....:thumbsup:


----------



## coldcall420

*Lyoto Machida – Let The Reign Begin*



> The celebration didn’t take long. There was still work to be done, and newly crowned Lyoto Machida knew it. No longer was he the hunter, fighting his way up the ranks towards the man at the top. When he knocked out Rashad Evans in May to become the UFC light heavyweight champion, Machida became the hunted.
> 
> “You become the target, but that is what I train for,” he told UFC.com through translator Derek Kronig Lee. “I want to be the target; I like the challenge and train very hard to keep going.”
> Not many people would welcome being the man all the fighters in the UFC’s talent-rich light heavyweight division – including this Saturday’s challenger, Mauricio ‘Shogun’ Rua – want to take down. But Machida is not like everybody else, and his ability to break from the norm, both in and out of the Octagon, has made him a bona fide UFC star.
> “There are a lot of interviews, and a lot more fans,” said Machida of his transition from contender to champion. “But the place I train at limits people from coming in and I barely answer my cell phone anymore; I only answer numbers that I know are friends or family. Other than that I live life as I always have before.”
> It wasn’t always like this for Machida in the UFC though. In fact, it looked like fans and the media would never come around to the Brazilian with the eerie calm, quiet demeanor, and unorthodox karate-based fighting style. But starting with his submission of Rameau Sokoudjou at UFC 79, fans started coming around. The bandwagon grew even larger when he defeated Tito Ortiz and Thiago Silva in back-to-back bouts, and when he halted Evans, you’d have to look pretty hard to find someone who wasn’t a Lyoto Machida fan.
> “I am very happy about that,” he said. “The feedback from the fans is what shows me I am doing a good job. But I was not surprised by it; I knew that by improving in every fight, one day that would happen. I fight to please the fans, to defend my flag, my name and my family. The respect from the fans is their response to my good work.”
> Now the hard part begins though, and that’s maintaining and growing his fanbase while keeping his unbeaten record intact and the title strapped around his waist.
> “I believe it will always be difficult, but I don’t think about it, and I’m not worried,” said Machida. “I concentrate on the day to day, and I am not living off what I have accomplished; I live as if I had not accomplished it. In reality, having the belt does not give me any advantage over Shogun - we will both step into the fight under the same conditions, we will be equal, and this is one more fight. It is as if I was winning the title again; I have the same willpower and have trained as hard as I did before I won the belt. I feel that I am going into this fight to win the title, not just to defend it.”
> The man across the Octagon from him on Saturday night, Rua, wants the title just as much, not only for his trophy case, but to show the world that the fighter who dominated PRIDE for so many years is still here and still able to dominate in the UFC like he did when he competed in Japan. That type of motivation is hard to stop, but Machida is pulling out all the stops to make sure he’s prepared to do it.
> “I watch a lot of his fights so that he doesn’t surprise me, and I train based on his game,” said Machida. “I always saw Shogun as an aggressive and complete fighter, and he is well rounded, but I can find some flaws in his game.”
> What fighters haven’t been able to do is find any flaws in Machida’s game. 15-0 over his six years in the pro game, Machida has been dominant to the point where people are starting to wonder not when he’ll get beaten, but if. He hasn’t been fighting cupcakes either, as you can add the names BJ Penn, Rich Franklin, Kazuhiro Nakamura, Stephan Bonnar, and Vernon White to his aforementioned victims. And he knew fairly early on that his style was going to be quite the puzzle for his opponents to figure out.
> “I always trained with Vale Tudo guys that trained Jiu Jitsu, Judo and Boxing, and I always felt that if I adapted my style it would be efficient also, all I needed was the opportunity,” he said.
> He has taken advantage of every opportunity thus far, and while a glossy unbeaten record compiled against the best in the world could be reason to start believing your own press clippings and lose focus, Machida has his family, especially his father Yoshizo and brothers Chinzo and Take to keep him focused and grounded.
> “I have always looked up to my father,” said Machida. “I always admired the Gracie family for all they have done, but my father has always been my idol. He is the one who taught me the techniques, the doctrine, the philosophy. My father didn’t give me the fish, he taught me how to catch it.”
> And in the future, Machida hopes to do the same thing in the United States for those wishing to learn his family’s style of karate. The 31-year old from Belem has also been making great strides in learning English, just another step towards true superstardom here for ‘The Dragon.’
> 
> “I have been studying any way that I can,” he said. “I have been listening to a lot of American music, watching movies in English and even watching cartoons in English with my son to become used to hearing it more. I believe it’s the best way to give back to my fans, to be able to meet them and talk to them, to show them my philosophy in life, my doctrine and my art. I think I can also learn a lot from the fans.”
> It’s that desire to keep learning and keep striving for something new – in the gym, in the Octagon, and in everyday life - that separates Machida from a lot of his peers. Some win a world title and stagnate, seeing the belt as the end of the journey. And that’s fine if that was your final goal. But for Machida, winning the UFC title was only step one. There are still challenges out there for him, still goals he wants to achieve. And only when he’s accomplished everything he set out to do will he be satisfied. Yet knowing Machida, there will always be some new mountain for him to climb.
> “What motivates me are the other objectives in my life,” he said. “The title has only given my career a start, and I still have to fight a lot of people. I represent a community, a millennial art, my family, and I want to keep on representing that. This is my moment, and I want to show my techniques and my values to the world. I want to keep my name in history, I want to break records and defy challenges, because if there are no more challenges left, I would rather stop fighting.”


Just thought I would share.....:thumbsup:


----------



## Fieos

Having a traditional martial artist at the pinnacle of achievement in MMA... I'm just too guarded to be openly optimisitic that he will reign the light-heavyweight division in the same manner Anderson owns the middleweight division. I hope for it but I don't dare expect it out of him.

I'm seeing the betting odds and I'm just not willing to say Serra/GSP couldn't happen again. I will be holding my breath that whole fight.


----------



## Soakked

Thanks for the interview :thumbsup:


----------



## Curly

Provided charlie Z doesn't move up to the 205 division I don't see anyone stopping The Dragon this year or next. He seems very strong mentally and very grounded as a fighter. His style is also one that would be hard to prepare for. 

Repped.


----------



## joshua7789

Curly said:


> Provided charlie Z doesn't move up to the 205 division I don't see anyone stopping The Dragon this year or next. He seems very strong mentally and very grounded as a fighter. His style is also one that would be hard to prepare for.
> 
> Repped.


Charlie Z was drinking pee pee before it was cool.


----------



## maxamillion125

Good stuff!


----------



## swpthleg

Nice find, repped.

I like thinking of the Dragon watching cartoons with the little Dragon. (no not Bruce Lee).


----------



## Roflcopter

FLEEoto's reign will be ending prematurely I'm afraid..


----------



## swpthleg

Roflcopter said:


> FLEEoto's reign will be ending prematurely I'm afraid..


As I just said anything can happen, but I don't think the scenario you described is very likely.


----------



## Roflcopter

FLEEoto fights bad strikers and looks good. Now try facing a good striker with a good ground game. I'm sure he'll get owned tommorow.


----------



## swpthleg

Roflcopter said:


> FLEEoto fights bad strikers and looks good. Now try facing a good striker with a good ground game. I'm sure he'll get owned tommorow.


Probably you should find a big Machida fan and enter into a sig bet. JMO.


----------



## Smiley Face

Roflcopter said:


> FLEEoto fights bad strikers and looks good. Now try facing a good striker with a good ground game. I'm sure he'll get owned tommorow.


Sig and Av bet me. 1 year it stays. Come on. :thumbsup:


----------



## Roflcopter

Smiley Face said:


> Sig and Av bet me. 1 year it stays. Come on. :thumbsup:


6 months.


----------



## coldcall420

Roflcopter said:


> FLEEoto fights bad strikers and looks good. Now try facing a good striker with a good ground game. I'm sure he'll get owned tommorow.


Dam it...



Smiley Face said:


> Sig and Av bet me. 1 year it stays. Come on. :thumbsup:


 
Beat me to it...



Roflcopter said:


> 6 months.


 
Do it...


----------



## swpthleg

Can one user enter into a sig bet with more than one other user?


----------



## Smiley Face

Roflcopter said:


> 6 months.


Yes. :thumbsup:


----------



## enceledus

Roflcopter said:


> FLEEoto fights bad strikers and looks good. Now try facing a good striker with a good ground game. I'm sure he'll get owned tommorow.


yeah rashad and silva are terrible strikers...:sarcastic12:


----------



## Soojooko

swpthleg said:


> Nice find, repped.
> 
> I like thinking of the Dragon watching cartoons with the little Dragon. (no not Bruce Lee).


I can just see him tutting at Tom trying to catch the elusive Jerry...and commenting to his son that it would be easy for Jerry to trip and mount Tom while Tom was all off balance during the chase scene.


----------



## FredFish1

I don't even think the LHW division has much to offer for him.
And someone should have to really earn a shot at him.

Rashad and Thiago he dominated.
Rampage is on hiatus for the moment.
Liddell is out.
He won't be fighting Rogerio.
Jardine isn't a threat at all, nor is he near getting a fight.
Franklin fights at 195 and just got beat.
Luis cain hasn't proven himself much.
Forrest just got humiliated.
Tito hasn't won since 2006.
And Vera isn't near the top 10.
Shogun is fighting him tonight.

They might all be competitive with each other. But Lyoto is on top of that pack by a mile.


----------



## Soojooko

FredFish1 said:


> I don't even think the LHW division has much to offer for him.
> And someone should have to really earn a shot at him.
> 
> Rashad and Thiago he dominated.
> Rampage is on hiatus for the moment.
> Liddell is out.
> He won't be fighting Rogerio.
> Jardine isn't a threat at all, nor is he near getting a fight.
> Franklin fights at 195 and just got beat.
> Luis cain hasn't proven himself much.
> Forrest just got humiliated.
> Tito hasn't won since 2006.
> And Vera isn't near the top 10.
> Shogun is fighting him tonight.
> 
> They might all be competitive with each other. But Lyoto is on top of that pack by a mile.


Exacxtly my thoughts too. I'm hoping one of the newcomers might evolve and be competitive. Maybe Bones?... or a wrestler like Bader.

If Lyoto beats Rua, then the next opponent is going to be uninspiring for me.


----------



## FredFish1

Oh yeah, good point with jones and bader. I'm always a huge fan of watching guys grow through the ranks. In a few more fights, if Jones knocks a couple of top guys down and his confidence is sky high. (He's training at Jacksons no?) He could be a real challenge.

But SooJooKo hit the nail on the head. Lyotos next opponent for me will be uninspired. I don't know why but I really like the idea of Cain V dropping down and having a crack at him. Some one has to get in his face and not give him time at all to get his timings down and counter-strike, take him down smother him and just pound on him. Cain would not get stopped, even if he got caught going in, he wouldn't get KO'd. And his wrestling and top game is devastating, though Kongo isn't a prime candidate to show it. Flame my potential pick away now please guys.


----------



## Soojooko

Cain is one of those chunky HW's that I cant see fighting a LHW. He looks like his bones alone would make LHW. If I'm wrong and he can do LHW, then it's a good call. Cain vs Machida would be awesome. That's kind of why I mentioned Bader. He's also super aggressive and a good wrestler with top cardio. Once we see the fibre of Baders chin, we'll know how far he can go.

Way I see it, if they can give Carwin a shot at the strap, I can see them giving it to Bones if he destroys Hamill in impressive style. I dont think I would complain. I would prefer Bones to any of the others except Rampage, who is having a bit of a turn.


----------



## chilo

coldcall420 said:


> Just thought I would share.....:thumbsup:


WAR SHOGUN!!!


----------



## coldcall420

Soojooko said:


> Cain is one of those chunky HW's that I cant see fighting a LHW. He looks like his bones alone would make LHW. If I'm wrong and he can do LHW, then it's a good call. Cain vs Machida would be awesome. That's kind of why I mentioned Bader. He's also super aggressive and a good wrestler with top cardio. Once we see the fibre of Baders chin, we'll know how far he can go.
> 
> Way I see it, if they can give Carwin a shot at the strap, I can see them giving it to Bones if he destroys Hamill in impressive style. I dont think I would complain. I would prefer Bones to any of the others except Rampage, who is having a bit of a turn.


Well....all I really want to ask Soojoo is do you really think Rampage has a shot in hell against Machida??? He would prob be 1 of the 1st i would pick to lose, i would give (and i have never been a fan) Rashad a better shot at beating Machida in a second fight. Rampage has zero discipline in the cage and mentally....well, i think we all can agree that mentally wise he isnt as strong as Lyoto Machida....I think Lyoto would chop Rampage down like a tree...

Now these thoughts of Jon Jones gettin a crack....would be an intesting fight, but imo only because of what mkes this fight with Shogun great....Jones is super aggressive just like Shogun.....

My thoughts are that neither Shogun or Jon Jones is gonna beat Machida, not cuz Im a nut hugger but cuz their style plays perfectly into what Machida wants a fighter to do....

I do think the toughest title defense for Lyoto will be his 1st......Shogun...



chilo said:


> WAR SHOGUN!!!


Machida's winning this battle:thumbsup:


----------



## Smiley Face

Check out my Machida gifs thread from all of his UFC fights in case anyone has any doubt! :thumbsup:


----------



## swpthleg

I'm extremely psyched and I'm going to go into the man cave now and be a good bitch so I can watch these amazing fights tonight without any unrest at home.

Shogun being super aggressive; that's why I say "depends if the Pride Shogun shows up." 

However having trained boxing and still taking kickboxing, and then transitioning in the same week or same night to karate point sparring, it is VERY hard not to chase, charge, or otherwise play right into the counterpunching, dancing away and rolling out style.


----------



## Kang-War

Sorry but it s the mauricio Rua Shogunate reign Begin


----------



## Soojooko

coldcall420 said:


> Well....all I really want to ask Soojoo is do you really think Rampage has a shot in hell against Machida??? He would prob be 1 of the 1st i would pick to lose, i would give (and i have never been a fan) Rashad a better shot at beating Machida in a second fight. Rampage has zero discipline in the cage and mentally....well, i think we all can agree that mentally wise he isnt as strong as Lyoto Machida....I think Lyoto would chop Rampage down like a tree...
> 
> Now these thoughts of Jon Jones gettin a crack....would be an intesting fight, but imo only because of what mkes this fight with Shogun great....Jones is super aggressive just like Shogun.....
> 
> My thoughts are that neither Shogun or Jon Jones is gonna beat Machida, not cuz Im a nut hugger but cuz their style plays perfectly into what Machida wants a fighter to do....
> 
> I do think the toughest title defense for Lyoto will be his 1st......Shogun...
> 
> 
> 
> Machida's winning this battle:thumbsup:


Who said anything about Rampage winning?! 

I was more on the tip of fights I was interested in seeing. I would like to see Rampage vs Machida, over the other highly ranked LHW's. Even if Rampage gets knocked out sparko... it would be good to see!

The issue is that none of the current LHW's actually deserve a title shot... but there are no others left. Not a good situation for the UFC, especially since they are talking about putting on more shows.


----------



## coldcall420

Soojooko said:


> Who said anything about Rampage winning?!
> 
> I was more on the tip of fights I was interested in seeing. I would like to see Rampage vs Machida, over the other highly ranked LHW's. Even if Rampage gets knocked out sparko... it would be good to see!
> 
> The issue is that none of the current LHW's actually deserve a title shot... but there are no others left. Not a good situation for the UFC, especially since they are talking about putting on more shows.


 
I hear ya I though you were mentioning Rampage as the fight you most wanted to see....I agre there will be an issue finding quality opponents, basically regardless of who wins tonight I expect that man to hold the belt for a while....:thumbsup:


----------



## coldcall420

*Rampage Doing Playboy*

RAMPAGE FAN'S

So every month this black plastic sealed mag arrives with a wonderful new naked women highlighting the cover...its my Playboy and this Nov issue was hot. OBVIOUSLY we all like the chic's and if you actually read the mag it isnt bad either...

Anyway each month they do a 20 Q & A with a celebrity...Next month(Dec) they sit down with Rampage and apparantly talk UFC and his future, you guys that arent down with Hef, might want to pick that up at your local news stand....:thumbsup:


----------



## T.Bone

We don't get that kinda high class shit in the UK. 

All we get is Saggy monthly.


----------



## coldcall420

T.Bone said:


> We don't get that kinda high class shit in the UK.
> 
> All we get is Saggy monthly.


 
Dam....I guess I will have to find a way to either link it if its on the net or post the article...I'll figure it out..:thumbsup:


----------



## CornbreadBB

Shit, I thought we was going to see Rampage's rager...you let me down once again CC.


----------



## coldcall420

CornbreadBB said:


> Shit, I thought we was going to see Rampage's rager...you let me down once again CC.


 
Yes!!! You bit on my misleading title....:thumbsup:


----------



## coldcall420

*Yushin Okami reflects on ‘utter defeat’ at the hands of Chael Sonnen at UFC 104*

http://mmamania.com/2009/10/25/yush...feat-at-the-hands-of-chael-sonnen-at-ufc-104/



> _“It was a complete, utter defeat. Reflecting on the fight, I have thoughts like, ‘I should have done this, I should have done that,’ but they are indications that my ability as a fighter proved insufficient. Sonnen was tough. When I stuffed the first takedown, I found myself in the clinch position which is normally my domain; however, I was surprised to be scooped up from underneath and thrown on the mat when I tried to fire off a knee from the position. He was more powerful than I imagined, and left me confounded as to what I should do next, and he kept up with his offense. I have never experienced anything like this before. For this fight, I had the best training possible, so I am disappointed about this loss. At the same time, I think I saw the limitation of the environment in which I find myself in (in terms of training). In Japan, I inevitably face a shortage of training partners and I often find myself on the offensive during training. Though I try to improve and diversify my training routine, I probably hit the ceiling at some point. I have the option of uprooting myself and training overseas… if I continue to train in Japan, I feel that I will end up becoming complacent, so I want to go back to square one and challenge myself. I feel that there is a need for me to train with training partners who are bigger than me. In order to win in UFC, I have trained to not be taken down and end up on the bottom on the ground; I thought I had the right approach, but I had not thought about what I would do if I did end up in a disadvantageous position. I was lax in my approach. Losing my passport (NOTE: He lost his passport right before he flew out of Japan and arrived in LA a day later than was originally scheduled to) ? It had no bearing on the fight. With all that said, I am very glad that I got to fight a tough fighter like Chael Sonnen. I am disappointed because I have never experienced a loss like this — it is up to me use this as a learning experience, so I would like to carefully ruminate how I can improve and implement (what I learned) in my fights.”_​The most telling part of this comment is his concern about not having the optimal training environment in Japan. Has he simply become too big and strong that he has exhausted the training partners who present a challenge with physical strength? Or has the training environment at his longtime home of Wajutsu Keishukai grown stale — especially given the recent departure of some of the high-profile fighters (i.e. Caol Uno, Eiji Mitsuoka) from the camp?


 
I lost 30k credits on Okami and Im not sure what the hell happened but he def let me down big.:thumbsdown:


----------



## Toxic

I knew Sonnen would take it, I wanted to jump on Okami first but when you consider who they train with it was clear who had the better camp to prepare them for this fight. Okami needs to either come to the US and train somewhere like Xtreme Couture or he needs to pack his shit and go to Dream cause he is right there is a huge lack of sparring partners who can emulate his opponents.


----------



## Davisty69

I was completely baffled watching Okami get manhandled like a second rate fighter. Something definitely isn't right in Okamiland. Sonnen is a good fighter, but he looked like A Silva beating up a 3 year old last night.


----------



## Smiley Face

Thank god the Okami hype is over... No Anderson for you Mr. Thunder.... *EVER.*


*REJOICE!!!!!!!!!*


----------



## Toxic

Davisty69 said:


> I was completely baffled watching Okami get manhandled like a second rate fighter. Something definitely isn't right in Okamiland. Sonnen is a good fighter, but he looked like A Silva beating up a 3 year old last night.


Okami's problem was he wanted to wrestle a guy who trains regularily with Dan Henderson and Matt Lindland who are the two best wrestlers in the MW division on some of the best in MMA in general.


----------



## Walker

Damn mang you beat me to posting this. :thumbsup:

I have long championed Yushin and I love his attitude here to give credit to Chael for taking it to him and I really really hope he follows through with this and comes overseas to train. Just imagining him training at a camp like Team Jackson makes me warm and tingly inside. He needs to make the transition so he's challenged more in training with the highest caliber of fighters to train with to better himself. Even coming off the loss the dude is 7-2 in the UFC, 28 years old, and if he could find the right camp to make him better then the sky is limit with his talents.

He'll have to work his way back up but with a better camp he can make great strides to improve himself. A loss can do great things for a fighter's career when they realize they have to do thing differently to succeed. I'd love to see it for Yushin. :thumbsup:


----------



## diablo5597

I won 20$ on this fight. After I saw how imposing his wrestling was against Miller I knew that everyone would have their hand full with this guy. He reminds me of Clay Guida when he fought Nate Diaz. He just latches on and and never quits and always fights at a high pace.


----------



## michelangelo

There's also the issue of his very long layoff.


----------



## CornbreadBB

I was really let down also, I had never seen Yushin get buttsecksed like that. Yeah, he may not have had the most exciting fights, but he's usually the one able to edge out a clear decision. I'm also impressed in how humble he is in defeat but I'm still pissed that I lost 2 million credits on Okami. I'd want to see him fight at least one more time before I give up the hope I has for him.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

I wish Okami would have come to this realization when he was decisioning people on the undercard consistently. 

Or before I bet on him. That would have been nice, too.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

Sonnen's stand-up is terrible. I have no idea how he outstruck Okami. I never bought into Okami as well, but good god.

Anyway, now Sonnen is going to get the "Okami treatment." Get on some cute little streak and people will demand him a title shot while he gets stuck on undercards when ultimately he would get destroyed and it would be a waste of a main event.


----------



## khoveraki

He did beat Paul Filho convincingly, roid controversy about Filho or not, still a good W. 

And getting submitted by Maia is nothing to be embarassed about, just ask Gabriel Gonzaga (2x), 10 years worth of top-tier BJJ BB's, everyone at his camp, Quarry, Macdonald, etc 

I honestly don't see Sonnen making a ripple in the MW division though. He'll probably hang around #6 or #7 in the division if he continues to look great, but he definitely isn't beating Marquardt, we've seen him lose to Maia, and isn't Henderson on the same team? And obviously he'd never get past Silva.

I dunno... MAYBE he'd squeeze a win from Marquardt, if Marquardt came in looking awful or something.


----------



## Vale_Tudo

Okami shows pure class In this interview! No excuses, just focus on how to improve! :thumbsup!


----------



## WouldLuv2FightU

That was a great read. Much respect to Okami...he is a very intelligent and down to earth guy. I met him at the 2nd Anderson/Franklin event after he beat the shit out of Jason McDonald and I just gave him a thumbs up and said good fight and he like laughed and cheered for himself lol. I also saw McDonald there too walking through the halls and his face looked like hamburger meat. I couldn't help but stare he just winked and pointed at me and kept walking...he looked angry though.

Anyways I hope Okami does end up coming to the US to train...the MW division needs him.


----------



## name goes here

*105 poll*

I say; 
Couture > Vera
Hardy > Swick
Bisping > Kang

Gambling wise, I win, a little bit more than I loose; when you add your comments, please say how good/ suck you are at gambling, so I can ignore you comment if suck


----------



## NikosCC

Couture over Vera, Bisping will win and so will Swick.


----------



## Nefilim777

I think the most interesting fight of the night will be Swick/Hardy, without a doubt. I went for Hardy but I'm not entirely sure at all, Swick is dangerous, and quick of course.


----------



## Devil_Bingo

Couture, Bisping and Hardy.


----------



## Clivey

CornbreadBB said:


> I was really let down also, I had never seen Yushin get buttsecksed like that. Yeah, he may not have had the most exciting fights, but he's usually the one able to edge out a clear decision. I'm also impressed in how humble he is in defeat but I'm still pissed that I lost 2 million credits on Okami. I'd want to see him fight at least one more time before I give up the hope I has for him.


Why you pissed about that? credits dont mean anything you know?


----------



## The Horticulturist

War Krang! 









But seriously :


Swick>Hardy
Vera>Couture
Kang>Bisping

The Krang and Vera picks are me going out on a limb on purpose. Kang is pretty experienced, and if he comes prepared he definitely has a solid chance of coming out on top. With Vera, I just know he can hurt Randy badly on the feet if he isn't gunshy. No real reasoning other than those that.


----------



## Carlitoz3

Lets go Captain America! :thumb03:


----------



## Seperator88

Carlitoz3 said:


> Lets go Captain America! :thumb03:


Ill second that


----------



## DJ Syko

Vera is a bad match up for Couture, great takedown defence and good striking, plus he is a lot quicker. I know Couture proves that he is never too old, but i really think he is too old and slow for the LHW division now.

Bisping>Kang - Both are very well rounded, i just think Bisping is just a bit better than him at everything, Maybe not at submissions but he has better sub defense.

Swick>Hardy - I really want Hardy to win, but i think Swick is just too good for him.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

im pulling for swick!!!


----------



## CornbreadBB

*Rolles Gracie Jr.....*

Oh hai guys, I was just reading about Rolles (says he is fighting Al-turk at UFC 109....why I put this in the UFC section). Anybody (I'm looking at you sexy mods) know anything about him? Does he look really good? I was just interested because he's a HW with 3 submissions and a shit ton of good credentials. (Ton of BJJ and a couple of Judo metals.) I feel like I should be excited about him, but I want some input first.


----------



## RFC

Couture > Vera. I just can't see Vera stopping Randy. If Big Nog can't sub him, I don't think Vera will either. I also don't think he'll be able to knock him out.

Swick > Hardy. I really like both fighters but I think swick will eventually overwhelm him with punches. Was surprised Hardy winning his last fight so I may just be again...

Bisping > Kang. Not gonna lie but I've not seen too much of Kang. I think Bisping though is gonna be really fired up for this after the brutal KO and with the crowd cheering him on. I think Bisping will get the TKO or decision as his sub defence is excellent.


----------



## Darkwraith

Never heard of this so called "gracie" family...Are they from Iowa or something? :confused02:


----------



## TERMINATOR

Darkwraith said:


> Never heard of this so called "gracie" family...Are they from Iowa or something? :confused02:


Hey now what is wrong with Iowa? Other than hootowls f**king the chickens.


----------



## CornbreadBB

No, I believe they are a family of mutants that are from the British Columbia area...


----------



## King Koopa

Darkwraith said:


> Never heard of this so called "gracie" family...Are they from Iowa or something? :confused02:


no, they're from brazil . . . jk i know ur joking


----------



## Servatose

CornbreadBB said:


> Oh hai guys, I was just reading about Rolles (says he is fighting Al-turk at UFC 109....why I put this in the UFC section). Anybody (I'm looking at you sexy mods) know anything about him? Does he look really good? I was just interested because he's a HW with 3 submissions and a shit ton of good credentials. (Ton of BJJ and a couple of Judo metals.) I feel like I should be excited about him, but I want some input first.


I'm also interested in learning what others may know about him. It excited me to see someone as decorated a BJJ practitioner as he enter the UFC at HW. It seems like the division is really coming along, but like the OP I'd like a little more info before getting overly excited, but he certainly seems like a promising name at the very least.


----------



## coldcall420

*Read: Machida-shogun Talk Dominates The Industry*

http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=news.detail&gid=23324



> UFC President Dana White predicted that the UFC Light Heavyweight Championship bout between Lyoto Machida and Mauricio “Shogun” Rua would be the talk of the Sunday sports world after a timeless battle of strikers with vastly contrasting styles.
> 
> He was partially correct.
> Machida-Shogun certainly dominated Sunday morning headlines and message boards in cyber land with heated copy, but it wasn’t the combat action that sparked the tremendous volume of debate. It was the judges’ awarding of the fight to the champion by unanimous decision—48-47 across the board.
> For the record, I scored the bout 49-46 for Shogun, giving Machida the third round and Shogun the other four. To be honest, it was even a bit of a stretch for me to score the third stanza 10-9 for Machida.
> So, I must be outraged by the decision, right? *Actually, no.*
> Shortly after the fight, I spoke with a close friend who works in the industry. The first words out of his mouth were, “I’m not sure why everyone is tripping out over the decision; I had it 48-47 for Machida, just like the judges.” And I’ve had several conversations just like that one over the course of my Sunday afternoon.
> The fact of the matter is that Machida-Shogun was a very difficult fight to score. Many of the rounds were extremely close, and I think we all need to accept the fact that judges have difficulty scoring blows to the body and legs versus shots to the head. Remember that MMA is still very much a nascent sport and many of its judges come from boxing, so the quality of judging will continue to evolve as the sport evolves.
> Again, that isn’t to say that the judges scored it incorrectly. Reasonable minds can disagree about the scoring of almost every round of Saturday’s main event. I think that the judges were swayed early in the fight by the few quick, explosive strikes (punches and the flying knee) thrown by the champion, even though they did not land with any real effectiveness.
> No matter, as resolution appears to be just around the corner. White announced with conviction during the post-fight presser that there would be an immediate rematch. He seemed so committed to the idea that I started to wonder if he would order the pair to don the gloves and face off for a “sudden victory” round right there in the press room. Remember, even though White is the unquestioned MMA czar, he is also its biggest fan, which means he will want bring finality to the controversy just like everyone else.
> That is good news because if there has ever been a championship bout that screamed for an immediate rematch, it is this one. Why do I say that when I acknowledge that reasonable minds can disagree about the outcome of the fight? Simple. Whether Shogun did enough to deserve the decision is immaterial, as he is the only fighter that has truly tested Machida inside the Octagon. He is the first man to win a round against the champion in eight trips to the Octagon. And he is certainly the only man who battered and bloodied Machida. Mix that up with the fans’ boisterous disapproval of the result and the UFC has the perfect recipe for a highly anticipated rematch.
> When the ballyhooed rematch becomes a reality, I expect Machida to be much more prepared the second time around. Shogun had a brilliant game plan for dealing with the sport’s most elusive fighter. He eschewed his ultra aggressive instincts in favor of an extremely tactical bout that focused on taking away the champion’s explosiveness with savage kicks to the legs and body. He forced the champion to take the lead and punished him for it with quick, well planned counters. Machida will likely be ready for that approach next time around.
> Will Shogun employ the same game plan if they square off again? I doubt it. He is smarter than that. My guess is that he will fight off of some of the same keys, though he will mix in more punches and generally fight with more aggression, which may pose even greater problems for the champion.
> Whatever the case, when the rematch becomes a reality, I’m going to be front and center to see what transpires.


Thoughts??


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy

Whatever the disagreement I've had with people about the results of the fight. One thing I know I'm sure about.. is that EVERYONE WANTS TO SEE THIS REMATCH. And I'm very excited about it .

Whether Shogun comes out on top or Lyoto defends his title is gonna be up for debate. But I'm sure no one expected this out of Shogun.


----------



## Apollo33

Notoriousxpinoy said:


> One thing I know I'm sure about.. is that EVERYONE WANTS TO SEE THIS REMATCH. And I'm very excited about it .
> 
> Whether Shogun comes out on top or Lyoto defends his title is gonna be up for debate.


Really?? Everyone wants to waste another half hour of their lives watching nothing happen??

And the debate is already over! The conclusion: NEITHER of them deserve the title (or a rematch) because they showed for a full 25 minutes that they didn't care to win!

How many times did Rua go for Machida's head, or even for a takedown? (Was he trying to win by ruptured internal organs?) And Machida, who should've known he was behind on the scorecard, hardly tried anything the last round. It was just pitiful.


----------



## M.C

When the fight first took place, almost everynoe was saying "Shogun got robbed", and I was the only person on this forum for hours trying to defend it. The next day was interesting with still a lot of people thinking Shogun got robbed. Today I woke up and finally it's a mixed bag of who thought won, now that people are actually watching the fight multiple times. I think a week from now, people will generally be thinking it could have gone either way and that the decision was fine, and just look forward to the rematch.

Very good fight, very interesting fight, and the rematch is going to be extremely entertaining if it's even half the fight this one was.


----------



## 6toes

This about sums it up. I was pretty upset when Lyoto got the decision because I felt Shogun truely earned it. But in this case, Shogun's loss might just be our gain as the fans. Honestly looking forward to this rematch more than any other fight for a long while (especially considering the Rashad-Rampage and Brock-Shane fights both being scrapped.)


----------



## SSD

Michael Carson said:


> When the fight first took place, almost everynoe was saying "Shogun got robbed", and I was the only person on this forum for hours trying to defend it. The next day was interesting with still a lot of people thinking Shogun got robbed. Today I woke up and finally it's a mixed bag of who thought won, now that people are actually watching the fight multiple times. I think a week from now, people will generally be thinking it could have gone either way and that the decision was fine, and just look forward to the rematch.
> 
> Very good fight, very interesting fight, and the rematch is going to be extremely entertaining if it's even half the fight this one was.


Yeah, I wasn't sure that Shogun would get the decision unlike everyone else. I scored rounds 1 and 3 for Machida and 4,5 for Shogun with 2 being a tie. I actually would make it a tie but that obviously is rare in US.


----------



## kano666

Michael Carson said:


> When the fight first took place, almost everynoe was saying "Shogun got robbed", and I was the only person on this forum for hours trying to defend it. The next day was interesting with still a lot of people thinking Shogun got robbed. Today I woke up and finally it's a mixed bag of who thought won, now that people are actually watching the fight multiple times. I think a week from now, people will generally be thinking it could have gone either way and that the decision was fine, and just look forward to the rematch.
> 
> Very good fight, very interesting fight, and the rematch is going to be extremely entertaining if it's even half the fight this one was.


I guess I'm with the concensus then. I think it was a very close decision, although I saw Shogun as the winner. Despite all the shit he takes, I think Cecil Peoples' explanation made sense (except maybe for the octagon control portion, not sure what to make of that).

And hell yeah I'd like to see them go at it again! I didn't get to see this event broadcast live, I was at a friend's wedding. Next time I'll be planning around it for sure!


----------



## js9234

I think it has to do more with people thinking being in the minority is cool or something because Shogun landed double the strikes and was the agressor. I don't think there's much anyone can say to prove Machida won. But, if you leave it to the judges it's your own fault or at least your coaches for telling you your up on the scorecards and don't take chances. 


Michael Carson said:


> When the fight first took place, almost everynoe was saying "Shogun got robbed", and I was the only person on this forum for hours trying to defend it. The next day was interesting with still a lot of people thinking Shogun got robbed. Today I woke up and finally it's a mixed bag of who thought won, now that people are actually watching the fight multiple times. I think a week from now, people will generally be thinking it could have gone either way and that the decision was fine, and just look forward to the rematch.
> 
> Very good fight, very interesting fight, and the rematch is going to be extremely entertaining if it's even half the fight this one was.


----------



## name goes here

The biggest problem is Joe's commentary, the next biggest problem is the judging criteria. I would say Shogun did the most damage. But I would also say Mach scored the most points (hard strikes), in more of the rounds.
Mach would come in land some strikes, Shogun would punish him with one hard strike. Shogun would shrug off the strikes he took, Mach would look aggreaved and you would hear the loud slap of Shoguns strike - but for scoring purpouses Mach was getting the better of the exchanges.


----------



## js9234

Sorry but no, Shogun landed nearly double the strikes as Machida. I still can't believe people are thinking Machida landed more strikes. 



name goes here said:


> The biggest problem is Joe's commentary, the next biggest problem is the judging criteria. I would say Shogun did the most damage. But I would also say Mach scored the most points (hard strikes), in more of the rounds.
> Mach would come in land some strikes, Shogun would punish him with one hard strike. Shogun would shrug off the strikes he took, Mach would look aggreaved and you would hear the loud slap of Shoguns strike - but for scoring purpouses Mach was getting the better of the exchanges.


----------



## M.C

js9234 said:


> I think it has to do more with people thinking being in the minority is cool or something because Shogun landed double the strikes and was the agressor. I don't think there's much anyone can say to prove Machida won. But, if you leave it to the judges it's your own fault or at least your coaches for telling you your up on the scorecards and don't take chances.


No, there are many reasons why one could say Machida won the fight. While most people were looking at Shogun's kicks, others were looking at the fact that Machida would counter most of his kicks with punches. They take into account being able to throw Shogun off easily in the clinch, and they took into account that he did avoid a lot of Shogun's attacks.

The fight as a whole was very, very close, it could go either way, and since people are watching the fight as a whole, and multiple times, they are starting to see that.

It'll continue to even out, with a mix of views, in fact, it's already like that, but it'll even out even more in the following week or two I'm sure.



name goes here said:


> The biggest problem is Joe's commentary, the next biggest problem is the judging criteria. I would say Shogun did the most damage. But I would also say Mach scored the most points (hard strikes), in more of the rounds.
> Mach would come in land some strikes, Shogun would punish him with one hard strike. Shogun would shrug off the strikes he took, Mach would look aggreaved and you would hear the loud slap of Shoguns strike - but for scoring purpouses Mach was getting the better of the exchanges.


I generally agree. There are many factors that go into so many thinking Shogun won:

1. Very close fight, could be called either way so some will automatically think that Shogun won.

2. Joe and Goldie made it sound as if Shogun was dominating, which he wasn't, it was very close.

3. The hype behind Machida made it where because Shogun did do so well, many think he won. It's the old story of hyped up fighter who fights a very hard, close fight, and many believe that it should have gone to the loser(in a very close, called either way, sort of fight) because as we all know, hyped up fighters have a huge eye set on them to lose, especially when they look unstoppable.

Many factors in the reason why the first night everyone was all "Shogun got robbed", and now after a few days many are coming around, seeing it as a close fight and that it really wasn't all that bad of a scoring.

Give it a few weeks, people will come around to thinking the decision was fine (most people, not all) and just be excited for a very good rematch.


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy

Michael Carson said:


> No, there are many reasons why one could say Machida won the fight. While most people were looking at Shogun's kicks, others were looking at the fact that Machida would counter most of his kicks with punches. They take into account being able to throw Shogun off easily in the clinch, and they took into account that he did avoid a lot of Shogun's attacks.
> 
> The fight as a whole was very, very close, it could go either way, and since people are watching the fight as a whole, and multiple times, they are starting to see that.
> 
> It'll continue to even out, with a mix of views, in fact, it's already like that, but it'll even out even more in the following week or two I'm sure.
> 
> 
> 
> I generally agree. There are many factors that go into so many thinking Shogun won:
> 
> 1. Very close fight, could be called either way so some will automatically think that Shogun won.
> 
> 2. Joe and Goldie made it sound as if Shogun was dominating, which he wasn't, it was very close.
> 
> 3. The hype behind Machida made it where because Shogun did do so well, many think he won. It's the old story of hyped up fighter who fights a very hard, close fight, and many believe that it should have gone to the loser(in a very close, called either way, sort of fight) because as we all know, hyped up fighters have a huge eye set on them to lose, especially when they look unstoppable.
> 
> Many factors in the reason why the first night everyone was all "Shogun got robbed", and now after a few days many are coming around, seeing it as a close fight and that it really wasn't all that bad of a scoring.
> 
> Give it a few weeks, people will come around to thinking the decision was fine (most people, not all) and just be excited for a very good rematch.


Just to clarify my first post. I still think Shogun won and he deserved it. But we can argue about that to no ends. I'm not a super fan of both as I believe Shogun(If he had won) would have lost it to A.Silva, Rampage, or even Rashad. It's just this one night, Shogun fought the better fight.


----------



## Belfort

Notoriousxpinoy said:


> Just to clarify my first post. I still think Shogun won and he deserved it. But we can argue about that to no ends. I'm not a super fan of both as I believe Shogun(If he had won) would have lost it to A.Silva, Rampage, or even Rashad. It's just this one night, Shogun fought the better fight.


Lost it to Rampage?  Did you see their fight in Pride - Rampage got completely demolished. Sure he got his own back after Wanderlei destroyed him in pride x2 but Wandy hasn't looked half as good as he was where as Shogun seems to be getting back to the way he was.


----------



## M.C

Notoriousxpinoy said:


> Just to clarify my first post. I still think Shogun won and he deserved it. But we can argue about that to no ends. I'm not a super fan of both as I believe Shogun(If he had won) would have lost it to A.Silva, Rampage, or even Rashad. It's just this one night, Shogun fought the better fight.


That is cool, there will be people who think Shogun won it regardless of how much time passes or how many times they watch it. It was a very close fight. :thumbsup:


----------



## valrond

js9234 said:


> Sorry but no, Shogun landed nearly double the strikes as Machida. I still can't believe people are thinking Machida landed more strikes.


Yes, he landed 82 strikes vs 42 of Machida.

The problem is, 49 of those 82 strikes were to the legs. Machida hit the legs only 4 times. Subtract that and you get 33 effective strikes vs 38. And leg kicks barely get you points. A leg kick can't get you a KO. It only slows down the opponent, that's the benefit. You don't get points for that unless that the only thing that happened on the round.

Now, add the couple good knees Machida gave Shogun, a few solid shots to the head and a defended takedown and you win a round, no matter if the opponent hits you 10 times in the leg.


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy

Belfort said:


> Lost it to Rampage?  Did you see their fight in Pride - Rampage got completely demolished. Sure he got his own back after Wanderlei destroyed him in pride x2 but Wandy hasn't looked half as good as he was where as Shogun seems to be getting back to the way he was.


Sorry but if you're saying Rampage didn't improve then you're delusional. We've only seen a minor glimpse of Shogun(Yes he fought a good fight against Shogun) but that's one fight. I love how he sorta came back, but it's hard to tell whether it'll be consistent or it's just that this one night he fought the perfect fight.

I'm all for Shogun being back. But let's not forget how much Rampage has grown. Let's also not forget that Shogun did lose to Forrest and barely won against Coleman. The reason why I can't be too quick to say Shogun will dominate LHW because Lyoto doesn't keep you under pressure enough to test your cardio fully... It was a patience fight.. Rampage will test that cardio just like Forrest did.

Again I believe Shogun won. I was pissed off also. But I'm not entirely sure if he's the old Shogun yet. It has only been one fight?


----------



## BobbyCooper

Very nice article!

I think the guy who wrote that, is totally right. And we all can be very happy about a rematch! I already think that Machida can't wait to show the world what he is capable of. I'm pretty sure, that Anderson Silva will help him a lot to improve his defense against Shoguns Muay thai style. And who can simulate shoguns style better then one of the best Muay Thai fighters out there


----------



## Belfort

Sure Rampage has improved but not above and beyond imo... he still doesn't even check leg kicks he's just waiting to catch his oppenent with a hook and he lost to Forrest as well don;t forget. 
Anyway guess we won't know how it would go down since he is MIA.


----------



## Drogo

js9234 said:


> Sorry but no, Shogun landed nearly double the strikes as Machida. I still can't believe people are thinking Machida landed more strikes.


I don't think Machida landed more strikes and I scored the fight 48-47 Rua but I don't buy those fight metric stats. No freaking way did Shogun land double the strikes.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

It was a close fight and hard to score. But it was a great fight as well and i cant wait to see the rematch.


----------



## BlacklistShaun

valrond said:


> Yes, he landed 82 strikes vs 42 of Machida.
> 
> The problem is, 49 of those 82 strikes were to the legs. Machida hit the legs only 4 times. Subtract that and you get 33 effective strikes vs 38. And leg kicks barely get you points. A leg kick can't get you a KO. It only slows down the opponent, that's the benefit. You don't get points for that unless that the only thing that happened on the round.
> 
> Now, add the couple good knees Machida gave Shogun, a few solid shots to the head and a defended takedown and you win a round, no matter if the opponent hits you 10 times in the leg.


Why should leg kicks not net you big points? As far as I could tell and it's pretty plain to see that Machida could barely walk at the beginning of the 5th...that's pretty good damage. Also if you haven't been around the sport for a while like some have I guess you've never seen a fight stopped from leg strikes?? I on the other hand have seen plenty of fights end due to leg strikes.

I did Muay-Thai kickboxing for over 7 years and I personally have ended a lot of matches with leg strikes. You take away a persons legs and they can't fight, it's along the same lines as chopping down a tree. I promise you those leg and body kicks that Shogun was throwing were doing a lot more damage than the few head punches that Machida threw.

As the article stated one of the biggest problems out there is that most of these judges nowadays come from boxing backgrounds and they judge head punches a lot greater than body strikes and leg strikes, which is nonsense because body strikes and leg strikes can just as easily end a fight.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

BlacklistShaun said:


> Why should leg kicks not net you big points? As far as I could tell and it's pretty plain to see that Machida could barely walk at the beginning of the 5th...that's pretty good damage. Also if you haven't been around the sport for a while like some have I guess you've never seen a fight stopped from leg strikes?? I on the other hand have seen plenty of fights end due to leg strikes.
> 
> I did Muay-Thai kickboxing for over 7 years and I personally have ended a lot of matches with leg strikes. You take away a persons legs and they can't fight, it's along the same lines as chopping down a tree. I promise you those leg and body kicks that Shogun was throwing were doing a lot more damage than the few head punches that Machida threw.
> 
> As the article stated one of the biggest problems out there is that most of these judges nowadays come from boxing backgrounds and they judge head punches a lot greater than body strikes and leg strikes, which is nonsense because body strikes and leg strikes can just as easily end a fight.



i agree that kicks should be scored better than they are. that is pretty ridiculous. Im not taking any sides on this fight either. I just think kicks are underrated.


----------



## BlacklistShaun

HitOrGetHit said:


> i agree that kicks should be scored better than they are. that is pretty ridiculous. Im not taking any sides on this fight either. I just think kicks are underrated.


Agreed, I'm not trying to pick a fight about it, but being someone that spent the better part of a decade doing Muay-Thai kickboxing and been training in MMA for the better part of a decade I know the effectiveness of a good leg kick.


----------



## aerius

valrond said:


> Yes, he landed 82 strikes vs 42 of Machida.
> 
> The problem is, 49 of those 82 strikes were to the legs. Machida hit the legs only 4 times. Subtract that and you get 33 effective strikes vs 38. And leg kicks barely get you points. A leg kick can't get you a KO. It only slows down the opponent, that's the benefit. You don't get points for that unless that the only thing that happened on the round.


You can't get a KO by leg kicks, but you can sure get a TKO. It's only happend about oh...84 times.


----------



## alizio

if ppl are unvalueing leg kicks, they sure as hell are overvalueing TDD... that doesnt score points.. just like submission defense doesnt score points

i love saying the same thing over and over so let me add, its hard to say "machida was countering everything" when he was outstruck 2 to 1... common sense says at best, the very, very best, he countered half the strikes thrown at him (and thats a lie, because many times it was actually shogun doing the countering). Nice try tho machida fans  i guess if u counter only half the time, stop a few takedowns, backpedal out of any real exchange, u win.


----------



## name goes here

BlacklistShaun said:


> Why should leg kicks not net you big points? As far as I could tell and it's pretty plain to see that Machida could barely walk at the beginning of the 5th...that's pretty good damage. Also if you haven't been around the sport for a while like some have I guess you've never seen a fight stopped from leg strikes?? I on the other hand have seen plenty of fights end due to leg strikes.
> 
> I did Muay-Thai kickboxing for over 7 years and I personally have ended a lot of matches with leg strikes. You take away a persons legs and they can't fight, it's along the same lines as chopping down a tree. I promise you those leg and body kicks that Shogun was throwing were doing a lot more damage than the few head punches that Machida threw.
> 
> As the article stated one of the biggest problems out there is that most of these judges nowadays come from boxing backgrounds and they judge head punches a lot greater than body strikes and leg strikes, which is nonsense because body strikes and leg strikes can just as easily end a fight.


How can the judges judge who is hitting harder though? Try to come up with a good criteria - I doubt it's possible. Aside from, 'it looked harder', or 'it was obviously harder'. Most things that come to mind are too subjective, and penalize fighters for looking hurt. Don't get me wrong I believe Shogun did more damage, but there is no fair way to judge, some people bruise more visibly than others, some make no face when hit, some do, some limp after the fight, some don't show it, etc.


----------



## name goes here

Belfort said:


> Sure Rampage has improved but not above and beyond imo... he still doesn't even check leg kicks he's just waiting to catch his oppenent with a hook and he lost to Forrest as well don;t forget.
> Anyway guess we won't know how it would go down since he is MIA.


I would say Rampage has diminished, he hardly bothers with his wrestling anymore, just relies on his one counter hook.


----------



## The Dude Abides

I'll say aagain, until wsomeone wants to break dow nthe ROUND BY ROUND stats, they need to shut up about them.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

name goes here said:


> I would say Rampage has diminished, he hardly bothers with his wrestling anymore, just relies on his one counter hook.


i dont think he is gone. but he is very one dimensional right now. He doesn't slam anymore and he never throws leg kicks. 

If he would just throw leg kicks every now and then it would greatly improbe his stand up.


----------



## alizio

name goes here said:


> How can the judges judge who is hitting harder though? Try to come up with a good criteria - I doubt it's possible. Aside from, 'it looked harder', or 'it was obviously harder'. Most things that come to mind are too subjective, and penalize fighters for looking hurt. Don't get me wrong I believe Shogun did more damage, but there is no fair way to judge, some people bruise more visibly than others, some make no face when hit, some do, some limp after the fight, some don't show it, etc.


 so u would prefer olympic style boxing judging... more strikes landed = win.... good, then shogun... STILL wins....]\\


oh wait... u only wanna count headshots... damn it!!!!! shogun..... STILL wins!!!


----------



## Soojooko

I think the only valid argument here is whether the fight was close or not. Many of us feel it was very close whereas others consider it a clear Shogun win.

The sheer amount of debate this has generated can only point to a close fight. That was the point of the article in the OP.

And please... don't use that Fightmetric site like its the word of god. It's not put together by anybody of authority. It's some fans just like you and me who have generated their own set of principles for measuring a fight.

And even when taking their own principles into consideration, they still score fights completely wrong on occasion. The first time I realised this is after the Bisping Hamill fight, where the guys who run Fightmetric were so disgusted with the result, that the stats after the fight were absurdly slanted towards Hamill. To the point of comedy. If I remember right, they gave Bisping 4 jabs in round one. I had a debate about it on this very forum and was run out of town with neg rep daggers covering my back! ( this was before I realized how much you lot hate Bisping. I know now that's for sure! )

Regardless of the Hamill Bisping robbery... that's when it occurred to me that Fightmetric is run by fight fans and is simply not factual.


----------



## alizio

ummmmm.... the bisping-hamill fight WAS a disgrace and not even remotely close... and if you took the time to actually do your own figures on the fight, you would see those fight metric guys are pretty dead on... ill wait for u to actually do it before just questioning the credibility..... obv they are diehard shogun fans and not trying to run a legit site....


----------



## Soojooko

alizio said:


> ummmmm.... the bisping-hamill fight WAS a disgrace and not even remotely close... and if you took the time to actually do your own figures on the fight, you would see those fight metric guys are pretty dead on... ill wait for u to actually do it before just questioning the credibility..... obv they are diehard shogun fans and not trying to run a legit site....


O god. Dont starts debating that fight with me! I did do a breakdown of the first round ( which Hamill clearly won... just so we are clear ). Bisping landed about 14 jabs. I was not saying the fight was close... merely pointing out that fightmetric are not accurate and in the case of this fight, were clearly so annoyed that they slanted the numbers. If they can do it in one fight, they can do it in any fight. Thats my point.


----------



## name goes here

I trust the judges counting better than fight metric. And without pausing and tallying each hit myself - I've watched it twice and the second time it seemed like Machida was landing more. (Though yes Shogun was hitting harder).


----------



## BlacklistShaun

name goes here said:


> I trust the judges counting better than fight metric. And without pausing and tallying each hit myself - I've watched it twice and the second time it seemed like Machida was landing more. (Though yes Shogun was hitting harder).


UFC judges had Machida winning.

Fight Metric had Shogun winning.

You are a Machida fan so of course you would side with judges right?

Even Dana White says the decision was b.s. and he's the man in charge. About the only people I've come across that think Machida actually won are the ones who were saying before the fight that he'd destroy Shogun. All impartial people I have talked to said that Shogun won.

To me it's pretty simple. I let my wife sit down and watch the fight, even though she hated watching it with the sound off I made her just to prove that commentating would not play a factor. She knows absolutely nothing about MMA, boxing, kickboxing, or any other fight sport. She sat down and watched all 5 rounds. At the end I paused it and said "who do you think won?" and without hesitation she said "the guy in the white tight shorts beat that other guys ass". So even someone who knows nothing, without sound, and me saying nothing about the fight previously picked Shogun as the clear winner. Maybe it was a hoax?? Or maybe it's that even the biggest newb can make a more clear call on who won the fight than some of the more self proclaimed guys running around on some of these fourms?? IDK.


----------



## coldcall420

BlacklistShaun said:


> UFC judges had Machida winning.
> 
> Fight Metric had Shogun winning.
> 
> You are a Machida fan so of course you would side with judges right?
> 
> Even Dana White says the decision was b.s. and he's the man in charge. About the only people I've come across that think Machida actually won are the ones who were saying before the fight that he'd destroy Shogun. All impartial people I have talked to said that Shogun won.
> 
> To me it's pretty simple. I let my wife sit down and watch the fight, even though she hated watching it with the sound off I made her just to prove that commentating would not play a factor. She knows absolutely nothing about MMA, boxing, kickboxing, or any other fight sport. She sat down and watched all 5 rounds. At the end I paused it and said "who do you think won?" and without hesitation she said "the guy in the white tight shorts beat that other guys ass". So even someone who knows nothing, without sound, and me saying nothing about the fight previously picked Shogun as the clear winner. Maybe it was a hoax?? Or maybe it's that even the biggest newb can make a more clear call on who won the fight than some of the more self proclaimed guys running around on some of these fourms?? IDK.


 
Yeah she knows nothing about scoring the fight then or the way judges do so, this argument or logic your using makes no sense, Your wife doesnt know about effective shots landed and the different ways the judges score the shots and also based off where they land, she cant know, you yourself said she doesnt know anything about MMA...

Looks can be decieving in fights somtimes when people are enamored with someones activities as many were with Shogun they can over look the champ and what he did....as more days go by more people are coming out saying after rewatching several times...machida won...


http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/64602-read-machida-shogun-talk-dominates-industry.html#post1028697

These are some of the criteria that one of the Judges explained:

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/62949-o...uricio-rua-pre-post-fight-69.html#post1028239


----------



## Soojooko

BlacklistShaun said:


> UFC judges had Machida winning.
> 
> Fight Metric had Shogun winning.
> 
> You are a Machida fan so of course you would side with judges right?
> 
> Even Dana White says the decision was b.s. and he's the man in charge. About the only people I've come across that think Machida actually won are the ones who were saying before the fight that he'd destroy Shogun. All impartial people I have talked to said that Shogun won.
> 
> To me it's pretty simple. I let my wife sit down and watch the fight, even though she hated watching it with the sound off I made her just to prove that commentating would not play a factor. She knows absolutely nothing about MMA, boxing, kickboxing, or any other fight sport. She sat down and watched all 5 rounds. At the end I paused it and said "who do you think won?" and without hesitation she said "the guy in the white tight shorts beat that other guys ass". So even someone who knows nothing, without sound, and me saying nothing about the fight previously picked Shogun as the clear winner. Maybe it was a hoax?? Or maybe it's that even the biggest newb can make a more clear call on who won the fight than some of the more self proclaimed guys running around on some of these fourms?? IDK.


hehe! ... Like saying, "My mate who knows nothing about cars says the Ferrari is better than the Porsche."

Sounds like your missus was focusing in the tight shorts dude!


----------



## TraMaI

BlacklistShaun said:


> Why should leg kicks not net you big points? As far as I could tell and it's pretty plain to see that Machida could barely walk at the beginning of the 5th...that's pretty good damage. Also if you haven't been around the sport for a while like some have I guess you've never seen a fight stopped from leg strikes?? I on the other hand have seen plenty of fights end due to leg strikes.
> 
> I did Muay-Thai kickboxing for over 7 years and I personally have ended a lot of matches with leg strikes. You take away a persons legs and they can't fight, it's along the same lines as chopping down a tree. I promise you those leg and body kicks that Shogun was throwing were doing a lot more damage than the few head punches that Machida threw.
> 
> As the article stated one of the biggest problems out there is that most of these judges nowadays come from boxing backgrounds and they judge head punches a lot greater than body strikes and leg strikes, which is nonsense because body strikes and leg strikes can just as easily end a fight.


Leg kicks are scored the same way as body shots in boxing IMO as they're basically the same thing. Sure, you can win a fight with them and people have, but that is not their primary use. Their primary use is to slow your opponent and set up for something bigger, where as punches to the face are seen as potential attempts to end a fight. 


The punches were scored higher (I think) because of the way Shogun was reacting to them. Even if they weren't doing that much damage, Shogun over played them with his reactions to them. Whenever he got countered he stopped doing what he was doing, covered and backed away. When Judges see that they're going to say "wow that punch must've hurt him." This is in stark contrast as to when Shogun was landing those kicks. You didn't see Lyoto bending over and clutching his leg or shaking his leg out or anything. His body language was saying "Meh, that didn't hurt." Body language is a crucial part of a fight when scoring it live, it's a good indicator of how a judge will score a strike or a set of them. If one fighter completely shrugs something off or just doesn't react to a strike, it isn't seen as being as effective as the other fighter wanted it to be. 

When you look at it like that, you can see where the judges were coming from. The leg kicks were damaging, but Lyoto seemed to just not react to them unless his body made him do it (IE Limping), he wasn't wincing because of damage. Shogun was backing off and covering whenever he got hit, so those punches seemed much more damaging than they may have been, even if they weren't showing the total damage of the strikes that Shoguns kicks were, Machida was still seen as trying to end the fight since he was going to Shoguns head and not trying to just take his legs out and slow him down. Where as it looked like Shogun was trying to set something big up and he never released that something big, so his leg kicks wouldn't be scored as high. It's almost akin to taking someone down and them immediately getting back up without you doing damage. You can set up that position all you want, and the offense will surely net you SOME points, but it will never score you as many points as setting something up and then actually DOING it. Had Shogun dropped Lyoto with one of those kicks or actually went to lyotos head with a few of them, the judges would've scored them much, much higher. But the way I think they saw it was that Shogun was trying to set something up with those kicks, but Lyoto was never giving him the chance to capitalize on the set up with something bigger because he was countering all of them, so they all kind of looked like failed attempts at something much bigger in the eyes of the judges.



Michael Carson said:


> When the fight first took place, almost everynoe was saying "Shogun got robbed", and I was the only person on this forum for hours trying to defend it. The next day was interesting with still a lot of people thinking Shogun got robbed. Today I woke up and finally it's a mixed bag of who thought won, now that people are actually watching the fight multiple times. I think a week from now, people will generally be thinking it could have gone either way and that the decision was fine, and just look forward to the rematch.
> 
> Very good fight, very interesting fight, and the rematch is going to be extremely entertaining if it's even half the fight this one was.


YOU LIE!


I was here too 
So was CC


----------



## coldcall420

*UFC Quick Quote: Takanori Gomi could knock out BJ Penn — if Dana White wasn’t so hard*

http://mmamania.com/2009/10/27/ufc-...enn-if-dana-white-wasnt-so-hard-to-deal-with/



> _“I want to fight BJ Penn again. He knows I’m the unique guy of this division able to knock him out. It would be the biggest champions fighting. Imagine how this match would be … but it’s not close to coming true. I don’t want to talk over UFC … Mr. Dana White is a great manager and I respect him but is a person hard to deal with. I’m not an art martial beginner, I am a MMA champion. What about him? What would he be?”_​_-_- Former Pride FC lightweight deity Takanori Gomi talks to Tsutaya Online about his fighting future as he prepares for Tony Hervey at Vale Tudo Japan 2009 on Oct. 30. “The Fireball Kid” flirted with a stateside move a few years ago when Zuffa — the UFC parent company — purchased the Japan-based mixed martial arts promotion; however, he decided to stay loyal and close to home, competing in front of the fans who watched him ascend to stardom in the “Land of the Rising Sun.” He was persuaded once again to fight on US soil until Affliction MMA collapsed and left him high and dry. Will he ever compete for the UFC? And if so, does he have any chance of avenging his 2003 submission loss to current lightweight champion BJ Penn?


Intresting??? it doesnt seem to me he will get what he wants speaking like that.....:confused02:


----------



## shatterproof

I'd love to see Gomi in the UFC for a few superfights, at least, but think he'd lose to BJ again. I'd rather see a rematch with Nick Diaz, in Japan or wherever. That was one hell of a scrap.


----------



## Stapler

I didn't realize he was still an MMA champion as he puts it. He hasn't looked too good lately, so what he has done in the past is almost irrelevant in terms of a contract because he isn't really a big name among casual fans either. He isn't worth a lot of money at the moment, if money is what he is referring too as well. I'm not too impressed with his record as of late. He'd need to work his way up the ladder if he ever got signed by the UFC in my opinion.


----------



## shatterproof

I'm going to call you Nicky Five Times because you just said the same thing 5 ways in a single paragraph. :thumb02:


----------



## Toxic

He said it for me to then, 

BJ via what ever the hell he wants but I'd still pay to see it.


----------



## Stapler

Haha, I had to make sure I got my point across.

Who out of the top lightweights in the UFC can Gomi even beat right now?


----------



## shatterproof

haha, mission accomplished brother!


----------



## M.C

TraMaI said:


> Leg kicks are scored the same way as body shots in boxing IMO as they're basically the same thing. Sure, you can win a fight with them and people have, but that is not their primary use. Their primary use is to slow your opponent and set up for something bigger, where as punches to the face are seen as potential attempts to end a fight.
> 
> 
> The punches were scored higher (I think) because of the way Shogun was reacting to them. Even if they weren't doing that much damage, Shogun over played them with his reactions to them. Whenever he got countered he stopped doing what he was doing, covered and backed away. When Judges see that they're going to say "wow that punch must've hurt him." This is in stark contrast as to when Shogun was landing those kicks. You didn't see Lyoto bending over and clutching his leg or shaking his leg out or anything. His body language was saying "Meh, that didn't hurt." Body language is a crucial part of a fight when scoring it live, it's a good indicator of how a judge will score a strike or a set of them. If one fighter completely shrugs something off or just doesn't react to a strike, it isn't seen as being as effective as the other fighter wanted it to be.
> 
> When you look at it like that, you can see where the judges were coming from. The leg kicks were damaging, but Lyoto seemed to just not react to them unless his body made him do it (IE Limping), he wasn't wincing because of damage. Shogun was backing off and covering whenever he got hit, so those punches seemed much more damaging than they may have been, even if they weren't showing the total damage of the strikes that Shoguns kicks were, Machida was still seen as trying to end the fight since he was going to Shoguns head and not trying to just take his legs out and slow him down. Where as it looked like Shogun was trying to set something big up and he never released that something big, so his leg kicks wouldn't be scored as high. It's almost akin to taking someone down and them immediately getting back up without you doing damage. You can set up that position all you want, and the offense will surely net you SOME points, but it will never score you as many points as setting something up and then actually DOING it. Had Shogun dropped Lyoto with one of those kicks or actually went to lyotos head with a few of them, the judges would've scored them much, much higher. But the way I think they saw it was that Shogun was trying to set something up with those kicks, but Lyoto was never giving him the chance to capitalize on the set up with something bigger because he was countering all of them, so they all kind of looked like failed attempts at something much bigger in the eyes of the judges.
> 
> 
> YOU LIE!
> 
> 
> I was here too
> So was CC


This is the truth.

I was here a few hours before you and CC showed up (I think, I didn't see you guys in the threads). I felt lonely, hurt, scared.... I wanted my mommy so bad.


----------



## wakeboy

The punches were scored higher (I think) because of the way Shogun was reacting to them. Even if they weren't doing that much damage, Shogun over played them with his reactions to them. Whenever he got countered he stopped doing what he was doing, covered and backed away. When Judges see that they're going to say "wow that punch must've hurt him." This is in stark contrast as to when Shogun was landing those kicks. You didn't see Lyoto bending over and clutching his leg or shaking his leg out or anything. His body language was saying "Meh, that didn't hurt." Body language is a crucial part of a fight when scoring it live, it's a good indicator of how a judge will score a strike or a set of them. If one fighter completely shrugs something off or just doesn't react to a strike, it isn't seen as being as effective as the other fighter wanted it to be. 

When you look at it like that, you can see where the judges were coming from. The leg kicks were damaging, but Lyoto seemed to just not react to them unless his body made him do it (IE Limping), he wasn't wincing because of damage. Shogun was backing off and covering whenever he got hit, so those punches seemed much more damaging than they may have been, even if they weren't showing the total damage of the strikes that Shoguns kicks were, Machida was still seen as trying to end the fight since he was going to Shoguns head and not trying to just take his legs out and slow him down. Where as it looked like Shogun was trying to set something big up and he never released that something big, so his leg kicks wouldn't be scored as high. It's almost akin to taking someone down and them immediately getting back up without you doing damage. You can set up that position all you want, and the offense will surely net you SOME points, but it will never score you as many points as setting something up and then actually DOING it. Had Shogun dropped Lyoto with one of those kicks or actually went to lyotos head with a few of them, the judges would've scored them much, much higher. But the way I think they saw it was that Shogun was trying to set something up with those kicks, but Lyoto was never giving him the chance to capitalize on the set up with something bigger because he was countering all of them, so they all kind of looked like failed attempts at something much bigger in the eyes of the judges.


YOU LIE!


I was here too 
So was CC[/QUOTE]

i guess the times were lyoto got kicked and almost fell doesn't count as a reaction. Also his surprised face after shogun won an exchange.


----------



## M.C

Machida never "almost fell", he took all Shogun's shots and didn't even come close to being rocked or hurt bad enough to fall. They hurt him, he started to slow in the later rounds, but he never "almost fell" or got seriously hurt. In fact, in the post fight interview he said the only thing he really feels is the inside of his leg.


----------



## name goes here

*UFC judges had Machida winning.

Fight Metric had Shogun winning.

You are a Machida fan so of course you would side with judges right?*

Judges > Fight metric. I'm not especially a Machida fan. I think Shogun did more damage - but lost as per the judging criteria. Don't make assumptions
*
Even Dana White says the decision was b.s. and he's the man in charge. 

About the only people I've come across that think Machida actually won are the ones who were saying before the fight that he'd destroy Shogun. 

All impartial people I have talked to said that Shogun won.
*
Dana White is a hot head.
The vast majority always goes the way Rogan goes. Even though he is often on the balls of a fighter just before he gets ko'd ie, he doesn't know shit about stand up.

Your judgement of people is inaccurate, and self referencing - ie totally irrelevant.

Ie 'everyone who is smart says Mach won', see how useless that sort of argument is?

*To me it's pretty simple. I let my wife sit down and watch the fight, even though she hated watching it with the sound off I made her just to prove that commentating would not play a factor. She knows absolutely nothing about MMA, boxing, kickboxing, or any other fight sport. She sat down and watched all 5 rounds. At the end I paused it and said "who do you think won?" and without hesitation she said "the guy in the white tight shorts beat that other guys ass". So even someone who knows nothing, without sound, and me saying nothing about the fight previously picked Shogun as the clear winner.*

Thats the point dummy. You and your wife are weighing damage done. But the criteria to winning a decision doesn't weigh damage done, but shots scored...

Also I've watched the fight 3 times now. Without sound Mach appears to be winning because you can't tell how hard the kicks are.

People who don't know anything about mma aren't very good at telling who is landing the better shots when two fighters hit each other in a flurry at the same time, some shots miss, some are blocked etc. Your wife prob just reacted to Shogun bruising less, perhaps just a factor of his skin.
*
Maybe it was a hoax?? Or maybe it's that even the biggest newb can make a more clear call on who won the fight than some of the more self proclaimed guys running around on some of these fourms?? IDK.*

Self proclaimed nothing. Respected members are respected for not insulting other members for no reason, and for predicting fights well and having good fight commentary.


----------



## wakeboy

Michael Carson said:


> Machida never "almost fell", he took all Shogun's shots and didn't even come close to being rocked or hurt bad enough to fall. They hurt him, he started to slow in the later rounds, but he never "almost fell" or got seriously hurt. In fact, in the post fight interview he said the only thing he really feels is the inside of his leg.


Uh i believe in round 4 he was on the ground? You dont remember him stumbling after a few leg kicks?


----------



## alizio

name goes here said:


> *UFC judges had Machida winning.
> 
> Fight Metric had Shogun winning.
> 
> You are a Machida fan so of course you would side with judges right?*
> 
> Judges > Fight metric. I'm not especially a Machida fan. I think Shogun did more damage - but lost as per the judging criteria. Don't make assumptions
> *
> Even Dana White says the decision was b.s. and he's the man in charge.
> 
> About the only people I've come across that think Machida actually won are the ones who were saying before the fight that he'd destroy Shogun.
> 
> All impartial people I have talked to said that Shogun won.
> *
> Dana White is a hot head.
> The vast majority always goes the way Rogan goes. Even though he is often on the balls of a fighter just before he gets ko'd ie, he doesn't know shit about stand up.
> 
> Your judgement of people is inaccurate, and self referencing - ie totally irrelevant.
> 
> Ie 'everyone who is smart says Mach won', see how useless that sort of argument is?
> 
> *To me it's pretty simple. I let my wife sit down and watch the fight, even though she hated watching it with the sound off I made her just to prove that commentating would not play a factor. She knows absolutely nothing about MMA, boxing, kickboxing, or any other fight sport. She sat down and watched all 5 rounds. At the end I paused it and said "who do you think won?" and without hesitation she said "the guy in the white tight shorts beat that other guys ass". So even someone who knows nothing, without sound, and me saying nothing about the fight previously picked Shogun as the clear winner.*
> 
> Thats the point dummy. You and your wife are weighing damage done. But the criteria to winning a decision doesn't weigh damage done, but shots scored...
> 
> Also I've watched the fight 3 times now. Without sound Mach appears to be winning because you can't tell how hard the kicks are.
> 
> People who don't know anything about mma aren't very good at telling who is landing the better shots when two fighters hit each other in a flurry at the same time, some shots miss, some are blocked etc. Your wife prob just reacted to Shogun bruising less, perhaps just a factor of his skin.
> *
> Maybe it was a hoax?? Or maybe it's that even the biggest newb can make a more clear call on who won the fight than some of the more self proclaimed guys running around on some of these fourms?? IDK.*
> 
> Self proclaimed nothing. Respected members are respected for not insulting other members for no reason, and for predicting fights well and having good fight commentary.


 since your calling ppl dummy... let me ask you this genius.... if its about shots scored, how do you explain that shogun landed many more shots?? Go ahead... watch the whole fight and count... 

btw this isnt olympic boxing judging, damage done DOES matter, it matters alot.


----------



## M.C

wakeboy said:


> Uh i believe in round 4 he was on the ground? You dont remember him stumbling after a few leg kicks?


He slipped, it had nothing to do with Shogun or the damage from previous kicks.


----------



## wakeboy

Michael Carson said:


> He slipped, it had nothing to do with Shogun or the damage from previous kicks.


what about the stumbling after leg kicks


----------



## coldcall420

Michael Carson said:


> This is the truth.
> 
> I was here a few hours before you and CC showed up (I think, I didn't see you guys in the threads). I felt lonely, hurt, scared.... I wanted my mommy so bad.


I was here the whole time MC posting and I sent Seep a Pm to get on Gmail and then when i tried to go back to the Machida vs. Shogun thread my post(THAT I JUST POSTED) was like 15 pages back.....then i couldnt get back on the forum....there were over 1200 peeps on when we were peaking and literally the pages wouldnt load.....



wakeboy said:


> Uh i believe in round 4 he was on the ground? You dont remember him stumbling after a few leg kicks?


 
Re-watch...:thumbsup:


----------



## M.C

wakeboy said:


> what about the stumbling after leg kicks


Machida didn't stumble from leg kicks. Machida moved back and tried to circle on almost all of them, and Shogun caught his leg on the circle, which would result in him going off of full balance for a second. It wasn't his power, it wasn't damage, it's the way Machida avoids strikes. Shogun's kicks made him go off balance once in a while because he was moving back and circling.

Shogun's kicks had absolutely no effect on Machida other than slowing him down some in the later rounds.


----------



## coldcall420

wakeboy said:


> what about the stumbling after leg kicks


 
To me all the leg kicks did was continue to wear Machida down.....like 1-3 they were throwing him off his game, 4 you knew they were an issue and Im not sure how he was coming forward the way he still was in the 5th cuz they had to be mush at that point.....Machida admitts he didnt win the 5th.....

As far as him gon down in the 4th....he slipped...:thumbsup:


----------



## wakeboy

Michael Carson said:


> Machida didn't stumble from leg kicks. Machida moved back and tried to circle on almost all of them, and Shogun caught his leg on the circle, which would result in him going off of full balance for a second. It wasn't his power, it wasn't damage, it's the way Machida avoids strikes. Shogun's kicks made him go off balance once in a while because he was moving back and circling.
> 
> Shogun's kicks had absolutely no effect on Machida other than slowing him down some in the later rounds.


why are you trying to reword my post, what causes stumbling? Being off balanced.

I know he slipped in the fourth. But your buddy said he never fell, and if you look back i never said he fell from a leg kick


----------



## M.C

wakeboy said:


> why are you trying to reword my post, what causes stumbling? Being off balanced.


I assumed you meant via damage. Stumbling from being off of balance awards no points whatsoever, nore does it effect anything in a fight.

Either way, Machida wasn't close to falling down or being hurt, he just stumbled from balance (which he was able to keep perfectly after the kicks, just small stumbles that didn't effect the fight).


----------



## hitmachine44

Boy do I LOVE nuthuggers.:sarcastic12:


----------



## wakeboy

Michael Carson said:


> I assumed you meant via damage. Stumbling from being off of balance awards no points whatsoever, nore does it effect anything in a fight.
> 
> Either way, Machida wasn't close to falling down or being hurt, he just stumbled from balance (which he was able to keep perfectly after the kicks, just small stumbles that didn't effect the fight).


Once again your contradicting yourself, obviously they did damage because they caused him to be off balance. If they had no effect he should have remained balance while he backs away like he successfully did in every other fight hes fought in. You even said that lyoto said at the press conference the only thing that hurt him were his legs. So yes I think its fair to say the leg kicks caused him to be off balance?


----------



## M.C

wakeboy said:


> Once again your contradicting yourself, obviously they did damage because they caused him to be off balance. If they had no effect he should have remained balance while he backs away like he successfully did in every other fight hes fought in. You even said that lyoto said at the press conference the only thing that hurt him were his legs. So yes I think its fair to say the leg kicks caused him to be off balance?


No, he said the only part of his leg that hurt was the inside. That's 1 small part of two big legs.

You don't have to have your legs get hit so hard they hurt to go off balance. A small push can make someone go off balance when you are moving backwards and to the side. Shogun's kicks when he moved to the side clipped him, they hit him in the inside of the right leg (he was circling left) which caused his body to spin slightly and go off balance. It's as if he were to bump into a wall and get off balance. Not much damage, not much pain, just off balance. Slips and going off balance don't cause points, they are just slips and going off balance. 

The same inside leg kick (he moved to the left almost everytime) over the course of 3 rounds started slowing him down some, as he was slower in the 4th and 5th. However, the only slips and "stumbleS" he had were not based on damage at all, it was just slips and stumbles, which, again, don't add points for Shogun.


----------



## wakeboy

Michael Carson said:


> No, he said the only part of his leg that hurt was the inside. That's 1 small part of two big legs.
> 
> You don't have to have your legs get hit so hard they hurt to go off balance. A small push can make someone go off balance when you are moving backwards and to the side. Shogun's kicks when he moved to the side clipped him, they hit him in the inside of the right leg (he was circling left) which caused his body to spin slightly and go off balance. It's as if he were to bump into a wall and get off balance. Not much damage, not much pain, just off balance. Slips and going off balance don't cause points, they are just slips and going off balance.
> 
> The same inside leg kick (he moved to the left almost everytime) over the course of 3 rounds started slowing him down some, as he was slower in the 4th and 5th. However, the only slips and "stumbleS" he had were not based on damage at all, it was just slips and stumbles, which, again, don't add points for Shogun.


I don't know why your trying to argue this considering your just flat out biased. I can even prove it...



notice how shogun struck him in the opposite direction of which he was moving and he stumbled the opposite way which he was heading..


----------



## M.C

wakeboy said:


> I don't know why your trying to argue this considering your just flat out biased. I can even prove it...
> 
> 
> 
> notice how shogun struck him in the opposite direction of which he was moving and he stumbled the opposite way which he was heading..


The first gif was a kick on the right inside leg(as I stated in my post) and it twisted him (as I stated in my post). That was one of the harder ones, that's why there is a gif of it. They both landed a lot of kicks, and the majority of Shogun's leg kicks were not that bad and mainly twisted him to go off balance. Even that one you just showed shows him going off balance via getting hit as he is backing away, and as I said, even a push could do that, much less a leg kick which takes you off your balance. It's not even that hard of a kick. Momentum makes you go off balance when moving back, and Machida's leg is in the process of moving, any sort of pressure would make him stumble.

The second one.. I'm not sure why you posted it. It shows Machida putting a knee in Shogun's stomach twice, and that shogun kneed Machida and Machida countered with a punch.


----------



## wakeboy

Michael Carson said:


> The first gif was a kick on the right inside leg(as I stated in my post) and it twisted him (as I stated in my post). That was one of the harder ones, that's why there is a gif of it. They both landed a lot of kicks, and the majority of Shogun's leg kicks were not that bad and mainly twisted him to go off balance. Even that one you just showed shows him going off balance via getting hit as he is backing away, and as I said, even a push could do that, much less a leg kick which takes you off your balance. It's not even that hard of a kick.
> 
> The second one.. I'm not sure why you posted it. It shows Machida putting a knee in Shogun's stomach twice, and that shogun kneed Machida and Machida countered with a punch.


I love how blind you are. Considering machida was retreating one way and stumbled the other, shogun generated enough force that his kick pushed him in a complete opposite direction of where his body weight was leaning towards.

I agree machida wins the exchanges there, but can you really not see that kick in which machida was pushing forward and he stumbles back because of the force behind it? 

One thing i hate the most is when people are so closed minded:thumbsdown:


----------



## M.C

wakeboy said:


> I love how blind you are. Considering machida was retreating one way and stumbled the other, shogun generated enough force that his kick pushed him in a complete opposite direction of where his body weight was leaning towards.
> 
> I agree machida wins the exchanges there, but can you really not see that kick in which machida was pushing forward and he stumbles back because of the force behind it?
> 
> One thing i hate the most is when people are so closed minded:thumbsdown:


You mean the second gif where Shogun jumps in the air and goes for a kick to the ribs? Do you see that Machida steps in, counters with a punch, then moves back? That's how Machida fights, he counters, then moves back asap. That's why people say he is so hard to hit, he doesn't stay inside long enough for you to do damage. The kick was there, it hit solid, but Machida moved back as he does every single time he comes in to counter, it was no different than anything else. The kick hit him, so his back moved out as you would if you got kneed there. His entire body moving away was him escaping and getting outside, as he has done in every single one of his fights.


----------



## coldcall420

wakeboy said:


> I love how blind you are. Considering machida was retreating one way and stumbled the other, shogun generated enough force that his kick pushed him in a complete opposite direction of where his body weight was leaning towards.
> 
> I agree machida wins the exchanges there, but can you really not see that kick in which machida was pushing forward and he stumbles back because of the force behind it?
> 
> One thing i hate the most is when people are so closed minded:thumbsdown:


 
Honestly, your gonna see this one your way and he is gonna see it his....so just agree to disagree......turn those thumbs:thumbsup:


----------



## wakeboy

Michael Carson said:


> You mean the second gif where Shogun jumps in the air and goes for a kick to the ribs? Do you see that Machida steps in, counters with a punch, then moves back? That's how Machida fights, he counters, then moves back asap. That's why people say he is so hard to hit, he doesn't stay inside long enough for you to do damage. The kick was there, it hit solid, but Machida moved back as he does every single time he comes in to counter, it was no different than anything else. The kick hit him, so his back moved out as you would if you got kneed there. His entire body moving away was him escaping and getting outside, as he has done in every single one of his fights.


i know you think hes a superhuman but in order to move back you need to move your feet. at the time of the kick both of his feet were still planted from throwing that punch, therefore he had not moved back to counter thee punch


----------



## M.C

wakeboy said:


> i know you think hes a superhuman but in order to move back you need to move your feet. at the time of the kick both of his feet were still planted from throwing that punch, therefore he had not moved back to counter thee punch


No, he moved forward, countered with the punch at the same time of getting kneed, then backed out. In fact, after the knee and counter took place, Machida hopped on one foot and moved away. The kick hit solid, it made Machida's body move in the opposite direction, but he didn't go off balance nore did he almost fall, he just got hit, that's what happens when you get hit. After the hit and slight body movement(physics come into play here), he moved himself out of harms way.

I'm not sure what you're trying to show me here?


----------



## wakeboy

Michael Carson said:


> No, he moved forward, countered with the punch at the same time of getting kneed, then backed out. In fact, after the knee and counter took place, Machida hopped on one foot and moved away. The kick hit solid, it made Machida's body move in the opposite direction, but he didn't go off balance nore did he almost fall, he just got hit, that's what happens when you get hit. After the hit and slight body movement(physics come into play here), he moved himself out of harms way.
> 
> I'm not sure what you're trying to show me here?


yes physics does come into play here, and you can clearly see that as soon as shoguns kick landed his moved backwards in the direction of the force applied. he had to hop on one leg to recover from losing balance...

and if you revert back to the beginning of the arguement i said lyoto had a reaction to shoguns kick and you said he didn't. i just showed you two gif's if were he clearly reacted.


----------



## coldcall420

wakeboy said:


> yes physics does come into play here, and you can clearly see that as soon as shoguns kick landed his moved backwards in the direction of the force applied. he had to hop on one leg to recover from losing balance...
> 
> and if you revert back to the beginning of the arguement i said lyoto had a reaction to shoguns kick and you said he didn't. i just showed you two gif's if were he clearly reacted.


 
You guys are talking about the same piece of video footage??? Cuz thats kinda important here....if we are going off wake's posts then he is correct at that instance of the fight, but there were literally dozens of those times in the fight so which one do you wanna debate, Carson could post a gif of machida effectively countering.....

Point is that both of you are right at different times in the fight....


----------



## M.C

wakeboy said:


> yes physics does come into play here, and you can clearly see that as soon as shoguns kick landed his moved backwards in the direction of the force applied. he had to hop on one leg to recover from losing balance...
> 
> and if you revert back to the beginning of the arguement i said lyoto had a reaction to shoguns kick and you said he didn't. i just showed you two gif's if were he clearly reacted.


Machida never lost balance in the second gif, not once. He was in complete control and moved away accordingly. The kick hit and his back moved out as it would anyone else, but this balance and movement were in perfect control by Machida. I brought up Physics as as his back moves up from getting kicked in his front, that happens, but his actual movement was perfectly normal, he moved out exactly how he does in all his counters. He never lost balance once.

When this conversation first started, it was that his kicks hurt him enough to cause him to lose balance and "fall", which never happened once in the whole fight(falling).

If you are trying to say that Shogun's kicks had some sort of effect, ANY effect, that some of his kicks casued him to go off balance, then I can agree. His kicks got in the way of his balance once in a while. This, however, scores 0 points and has no effect whatsoever on the judging or scoring of the fight, so I assumed you meant an effect that might actually help Shogun's score, not one that is pointless on the scorecards.


----------



## wakeboy

coldcall420 said:


> You guys are talking about the same piece of video footage??? Cuz thats kinda important here....if we are going off wake's posts then he is correct at that instance of the fight, but there were literally dozens of those times in the fight so which one do you wanna debate, Carson could post a gif of machida effectively countering.....
> 
> yes he could but thats not what were arguing. he said the kicks had no effect on machida so i posted a couple of incidents i found which clearly show they did.
> 
> Point is that both of you are right at different times in the fight....





Michael Carson said:


> Machida never lost balance in the second gif, not once. He was in complete control and moved away accordingly. The kick hit and his back moved out as it would anyone else, but this balance and movement were in perfect control by Machida. I brought up Physics as as his back moves up from getting kicked in his front, that happens, but his actual movement was perfectly normal, he moved out exactly how he does in all his counters. He never lost balance once.
> 
> When this conversation first started, it was that his kicks hurt him enough to cause him to lose balance and "fall", which never happened once in the whole fight(falling).
> 
> If you are trying to say that Shogun's kicks had some sort of effect, ANY effect, that some of his kicks casued him to go off balance, then I can agree. His kicks got in the way of his balance once in a while. This, however, scores 0 points and has no effect whatsoever on the judging or scoring of the fight, so I assumed you meant an effect that might actually help Shogun's score, not one that is pointless on the scorecards.


I never said shoguns kicks caused him to fall, i knew he stumbled. I was arguing over the stumbling and the balance, which you know agree to. Originally you said they had no effect on Machida, and i posted the gifs to show you that they did...


----------



## M.C

wakeboy said:


> I never said shoguns kicks caused him to fall, i knew he stumbled. I was arguing over the stumbling and the balance, which you know agree to. Originally you said they had no effect on Machida, and i posted the gifs to show you that they did...


Only the first gif effected his balance, and I stated in my post previously that the only effect it had on Machida was his balance as he moved back and went to the side, which is what he is doing in the first gif. I stated it, plain as day, that Machida's balance was off a bit when he was moving back and Shogun kicked him in the leg, I stated that before you even showed the gif.

The second gif Machida was never off balance. Not once. His upper body moved outward some, as he got kicked in the front. His actual balance and movement was never in trouble, it was perfectly fine. He moved back without problem or being off balance.


----------



## wakeboy

Michael Carson said:


> Only the first gif effected his balance, and I stated in my post previously that the only effect it had on Machida was his balance as he moved back and went to the side, which is what he is doing in the first gif. I stated it, plain as day, that Machida's balance was off a bit when he was moving back and Shogun kicked him in the leg, I stated that before you even showed the gif.
> 
> The second gif Machida was never off balance. Not once. His upper body moved outward some, as he got kicked in the front. His actual balance and movement was never in trouble, it was perfectly fine. He moved back without problem or being off balance.


the reason why he was jumping up and down was to recover balance he wasnt doing it for fun:confused02:


----------



## coldcall420

wakeboy said:


> I never said shoguns kicks caused him to fall, i knew he stumbled. I was arguing over the stumbling and the balance, which you *know* agree to. Originally you said they had no effect on Machida, and i posted the gifs to show you that they did...


 
Whoa, slow down there...The Giff you show basically shows Rua landing kicks thats all Im looking at, not balance the effect of the kick is going to cause movement. i think the bold part you mean now....and to say I agree isnt correct, I am saying your right that the kicks have an effect and cause movement in Machida when they land......

I also think Carson is fully capable of posting Gifs that show Rua eating shots while trying to land kicks or even while landing kicks, Lyoto ate alot to be able to counter because Rua's leg kicks came from so far away that Lyoto was forced to eat them in order to get in to counter......which every Rua fan seems to have missed....

I never said Rua's leg kicks didnt effect machida dude have you read all my posts on this....???


Dont put words in my mouth....After the 1st kick Machida moves backwards, second gif they both land kicks and Machida doesnt move backwards, however Rua then presses him to the cage to try for the clinch....The kicks they each threw both landed and machida did not move back from Rua's kick in the 2nd Gif...
http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/64522-machida-fans-unite-defend-your-boy-5.html#post1027322


----------



## M.C

wakeboy said:


> the reason why he was jumping up and down was to recover balance he wasnt doing it for fun:confused02:


He did it to move out of the way. His balance was never in trouble. Unless you consider losing balance re-establishing your "balance" after you go in to counter, which happens when you move forward quickly and back out quickly, he never lost his balance.


----------



## wakeboy

coldcall420 said:


> Whoa, slow down there...The Giff you show basically shows Rua landing kicks thats all Im looking at, not balance the effect of the kick is going to cause movement. i think the bold part you mean now....and to say I agree isnt correct, I am saying your right that the kicks have an effect and cause movement in Machida when they land......
> 
> I also think Carson is fully capable of posting Gifs that show Rua eating shots while trying to land kicks or even while landing kicks, Lyoto ate alot to be able to counter because Rua's leg kicks came from so far away that Lyoto was forced to eat them in order to get in to counter......which every Rua fan seems to have missed....
> 
> I never said Rua's leg kicks didnt effect machida dude have you read all my posts on this....???
> That post wasn't directed towards you, it was directed towards carson. And were not arguing about countering that was just included in the gif i found, but nonetheless lyoto did win the exchange there.
> 
> Dont put words in my mouth....After the 1st kick Machida moves backwards, second gif they both land kicks and Machida doesnt move backwards, however Rua then presses him to the cage to try for the clinch....The kicks they each threw both landed and machida did not move back from Rua's kick in the 2nd Gif...
> http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/64522-machida-fans-unite-defend-your-boy-5.html#post1027322





Michael Carson said:


> He did it to move out of the way. His balance was never in trouble. Unless you consider losing balance re-establishing your "balance" after you go in to counter, which happens when you move forward quickly and back out quickly, he never lost his balance.


Normally when a fighter is balanced while moving away from a counter, he does so on two feet not one. Why did he try to do it on one foot this time?

and for cc, im not sure how to correctly use to multi quote feature, but that post wasn't referring to you. it was refering to carson. Yes lyoto did have some successful counters but that's not what the current arguments about.


----------



## coldcall420

Wake who's going back wards here??? My point brother is that at different times of the fight they are both getting caught those gifs are split moments in time....25 Min's of time....


----------



## M.C

wakeboy said:


> Normally when a fighter is balanced while moving away from a counter, he does so on two feet not one. Why did he try to do it on one foot this time?


Because he's in the middle of a fight and his left leg was not on the ground from countering Shogun. His left leg was off the ground as he countered, so he was on 1 foot to move out of thet way. He didn't have to "get his balance back", he had to maintain his balance with 1 foot, as that is what he was on, then he moved away.

Maintaining your balance and gettnig it back are two different things.


----------



## wakeboy

coldcall420 said:


> Wake who's going back wards here??? My point brother is that at different times of the fight they are both getting caught those gifs are split moments in time....25 Min's of time....


I know that machida did counter successfully... The argument that me and carson are having is strictly about shoguns leg kicks. nothing else. the gifs i used to prove my point had countering but i didnt make the gifs, so they were just extra. I'm not quite sure what your trying to argue with me about.

Carson believes that lyoto had no reaction from shoguns leg kicks, so i posted gifs showing that he did.


----------



## M.C

wakeboy said:


> I know that machida did counter successfully... The argument that me and carson are having is strictly about shoguns leg kicks. nothing else. the gifs i used to prove my point had countering but i didnt make the gifs, so they were just extra. I'm not quite sure what your trying to argue with me about.
> 
> Carson believes that lyoto had no reaction from shoguns leg kicks, so i posted gifs showing that he did.


I don't know how many more times I can state this, but I will say it yet again:

When Machida backs away and goes to circle left, Shogun's inside leg kicks to Machida's right leg causes Machida to spin and go off balance. I stated this long before you even showed those gifs. The second gif Machida never goes off balance, he simply maintains the balance he has by hopping on 1 foot to get set before he makes his move away. It's maintaining his balance so he doesn't lose his balance, not getting his balance back after losing it.


----------



## coldcall420

wakeboy said:


> I know that machida did counter successfully... The argument that me and carson are having is strictly about shoguns leg kicks. nothing else. the gifs i used to prove my point had countering but i didnt make the gifs, so they were just extra. I'm not quite sure what your trying to argue with me about.
> 
> Carson believes that lyoto had no reaction from shoguns leg kicks, so i posted gifs showing that he did.


 
Im not arguing with you bro, we discuss things here, put your guns back in the holsters.....I thought that Carson was saying there are times when Lyoto ate the kicks and they had no effect. Which there were...:thumbsup:


----------



## M.C

coldcall420 said:


> Im not arguing with you bro, we discuss things here, put your guns back in the holsters.....I thought that Carson was saying there are times when Lyoto ate the kicks and they had no effect. Which there were...:thumbsup:


What I'm saying is (this was what the debate was originally) is that other than Shogun's kicks slowing Machida down in the late rounds, his leg kicks didn't have any effect on the fight. He went off balance once in a while because Shogun was able to catch his right leg with a kick as Machida backed up or circled, thus resutling in Machida losing some of his balance. This has no effect on the scoring whatsoever, so the whole point of Shogun's leg kicks having an "effetct", is like saying Machida was effected when he slipped and lost balance. It scores no points to go off balance, it had no effect on the actual fight itself.


----------



## wakeboy

Michael Carson said:


> I don't know how many more times I can state this, but I will say it yet again:
> 
> When Machida backs away and goes to circle left, Shogun's inside leg kicks to Machida's right leg causes Machida to spin and go off balance. I stated this long before you even showed those gifs. The second gif Machida never goes off balance, he simply maintains the balance he has by hopping on 1 foot to get set before he makes his move away. It's maintaining his balance so he doesn't lose his balance, not getting his balance back after losing it.


I understand how he moves away, but my point is, that the only reason why he would choose to hop away on one foot, rather than go away normally with two is because HE WAS OFF BALANCE FROM THE kick. Theres really no more point in debating this considering weve just been repeating ourselves.


----------



## coldcall420

coldcall420 said:


> Honestly, your gonna see this one your way and he is gonna see it his....so just agree to disagree......turn those thumbs:thumbsup:





wakeboy said:


> I understand how he moves away, but my point is, that the only reason why he would choose to hop away on one foot, rather than go away normally with two is because HE WAS OFF BALANCE FROM THE kick. *Theres really no more point in debating this considering weve just been repeating ourselves*.


 
Good idea.....:thumbsup:


----------



## M.C

wakeboy said:


> I understand how he moves away, but my point is, that the only reason why he would choose to hop away on one foot, rather than go away normally with two is because HE WAS OFF BALANCE FROM THE kick. Theres really no more point in debating this considering weve just been repeating ourselves.


He wasn't off balance from the kick, his balance was perfectly fine. He was on 1 foot to maintain his balance, not recover it. Maintaining your balance and trying to recover it are two different things.

If you don't want to debate on it anymore, that is cool.


----------



## wakeboy

Michael Carson said:


> He wasn't off balance from the kick, his balance was perfectly fine. He was on 1 foot to maintain his balance, not recover it. Maintaining your balance and trying to recover it are two different things.
> 
> If you don't want to debate on it anymore, that is cool.


k last thing. Lyoto threw his counter on two feet, as you can see when shoguns kick struck lyoto he was still on two feet, therefore unless the kick pushed him off balance (which i view it as it did) he should of recovered by using both feet rather than hoping away on one.


----------



## M.C

wakeboy said:


> k last thing. Lyoto threw his counter on two feet, as you can see when shoguns kick struck lyoto he was still on two feet, therefore unless the kick pushed him off balance (which i view it as it did) he should of recovered by using both feet rather than hoping away on one.


I consider "off balance" not having perfect control at the very moment you are "off balance". Machida clearly was in complete control, as he didn't even come close to falling or slipping. 1 foot, 2 feet, doing a handstand, so long as you are in control of your body and able to move (which he was) and not slip/fall, you are not off balance.

The first gif he got his leg clipped, slipped and was off balance, the second gif he never looked out of control, and he moved away using 1 foot to 'maintain' his balance, not get it back.


----------



## coldcall420

*A closer look at the official scorecards for UFC 104: ‘Machida vs Shogun’ (Pic)*

http://mmamania.com/2009/10/27/a-cl...scorecards-for-ufc-104-machida-vs-shogun-pic/


----------



## wakeboy

Ok so we have different understanding of what off balance means and control means. Yes i do still think he was off balance, but yes in the same time he did remain in control like you said. 

I say we end it on a good note?


----------



## coldcall420

wakeboy said:


> Ok so we have different understanding of what off balance means and control means. Yes i do still think he was off balance, but yes in the same time he did remain in control like you said.
> 
> I say we end it on a good note?


 
LMAO....indeed..!!!:thumbsup: Your a good guy wakeboy...


----------



## JMONEY




----------



## coldcall420

JMONEY said:


>


 
Yeah he was def backing away and avoiding Machida as well....:thumbsup:


----------



## jcal

Michael Carson said:


> I consider "off balance" not having perfect control at the very moment you are "off balance". Machida clearly was in complete control, as he didn't even come close to falling or slipping. 1 foot, 2 feet, doing a handstand, so long as you are in control of your body and able to move (which he was) and not slip/fall, you are not off balance.
> 
> The first gif he got his leg clipped, slipped and was off balance, the second gif he never looked out of control, and he moved away using 1 foot to 'maintain' his balance, not get it back.


Please show some gifs of Machida landing multiple shots on Shogun, Id really like to see it.


----------



## M.C

wakeboy said:


> Ok so we have different understanding of what off balance means and control means. Yes i do still think he was off balance, but yes in the same time he did remain in control like you said.
> 
> I say we end it on a good note?


Works for me.



jcal said:


> Please show some gifs of Machida landing multiple shots on Shogun, Id really like to see it.


I can't make gifs, and the only gifs running around are 3 gifs of Shogun landing pretty much the only 3 big shots that he did the whole fight other than some solid leg kicks. People haven't made any gifs of Machida's attacks yet that I know of. 

If you would like to see Machida hitting Shogun multiple times, go watch rounds 1 2 and 3 of the fight and you'll see Machida countering Shogun with punches, as well as his own aggressive attacks.

Why did you quote me saying that anyways, I didn't say anything about putting up gifs of Machida's attacks?


----------



## wakeboy

jcal said:


> Please show some gifs of Machida landing multiple shots on Shogun, Id really like to see it.


Rewatch the fight, or watch the post fight interview. You can clearly see shoguns black eye. Lyoto landed some good counters just rewatch the fight and look for them:thumbsup:


----------



## jcal

Michael Carson said:


> Works for me.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't make gifs, and the only gifs running around are 3 gifs of Shogun landing pretty much the only 3 big shots that he did the whole fight other than some solid leg kicks. People haven't made any gifs of Machida's attacks yet that I know of.
> 
> If you would like to see Machida hitting Shogun multiple times, go watch rounds 1 2 and 3 of the fight and you'll see Machida countering Shogun with punches, as well as his own aggressive attacks.
> 
> Why did you quote me saying that anyways, I didn't say anything about putting up gifs of Machida's attacks?


ONLY because of how in every thread your defending Machida and so are others which is OK, hes your boy. But I thought somebody would back up these statements about all these Machida counters with some gifs, cause sincerely id really like to see some. Judging by your cool avatar, I thought you would be able to produce gifs. As for me,I have no idea how to make a gif.


----------



## wakeboy

jcal said:


> ONLY because of how in every thread your defending Machida and so are others which is OK, hes your boy. But I thought somebody would back up these statements about all these Machida counters with some gifs, cause sincerely id really like to see some. Judging by your cool avatar, I thought you would be able to produce gifs. As for me,I have no idea how to make a gif.




theres one but you can also see shoguns nice counter at the end that made lyoto clinch:thumbsup:


----------



## xeberus

I just do not understand how 2 of the judges gave round 1 to machida, shogun lands 42% more strikes, he's 23% more accurate with those strikes, he attempts a take down and I'd give him the edge on aggression and octagon control as he's the first guy to repeatedly chase machida down and hit him.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

I agree Shogun won round 1.


----------



## MedicWanteD

If takedowns are worth points then stuffing the takedowns should also be worth just as much to a judge.


----------



## coldcall420

I honestly dont know how to do it or I would post some. :confused02:


----------



## kay_o_ken

i think take down defense and attempts all just need to be taken into context each fight, i mean for example with this fight sure machida was able to stuff shogun and keep the fight where he wanted it but he wasnt able to capitalize on that so really i think brining either aspect into the scoring of this fight is dumb


----------



## xeberus

jcal said:


> Please show some gifs of Machida landing multiple shots on Shogun, Id really like to see it.


There aren't any, I've seen two where machida tried to flurry overwhelm shogun but both times he misses an gets blocked and countered. And one of those times were when he took that vicious right just past the temple. I mean thats why machida didn't try to stand in the pocket with shogun after that.

Edit: of course someone posts the gif I describe just before I post ><

Double edit: look at the gif, how many times does machida actually hit him vs how many are blocked or miss? I cound 2 landing, 11 misses or blocks.


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy

xeberus said:


> There aren't any, I've seen two where machida tried to flurry overwhelm shogun but both times he misses an gets blocked and countered. And one of those times were when he took that vicious right just past the temple. I mean thats why machida didn't try to stand in the pocket with shogun after that.
> 
> Edit: of course someone posts the gif I describe just before I post ><


That flurry looks good for a Machida fan but doesn't really do anything. I'm pretty sure that if it was Machida on the recieving end of this flurry and Machida countered that with the right. Everyone of the Machida fans would say "But he missed and didnt land anything effective". This argument has been beaten to death. I'll just look forward to the rematch.


----------



## zarny

Like many I felt Shogun won the fight but quite frankly the post-fight reaction is way overblown.

Many give Machida 2 rounds; yet opinions vary on which 2 rounds to give him. That tells you how close the fight was. The first 4 rounds could be argued for either fighter reasonably.


----------



## Seperator88

Notoriousxpinoy said:


> That flurry looks good for a Machida fan but doesn't really do anything. I'm pretty sure that if it was Machida on the recieving end of this flurry and Machida countered that with the right. Everyone of the Machida fans would say "But he missed and didnt land anything effective". This argument has been beaten to death. I'll just look forward to the rematch.


exactly, i agree completely.

and for the record, that right shogun landed did make Machida quit his attack and clinch with Shogun, we all saw it wether you admit it or not. He wouldn't have quit the onslaught had he not be hurt or shocked, it would've looked just like the Rashad result


----------



## TraMaI

Just read through this thread again and I think I facepalmed about 30 times.


----------



## xeberus

zarny said:


> Like many I felt Shogun won the fight but quite frankly the post-fight reaction is way overblown.
> 
> Many give Machida 2 rounds; yet opinions vary on which 2 rounds to give him. That tells you how close the fight was. The first 4 rounds could be argued for either fighter reasonably.


I think reasonably the 3rd round was the only one that could be given to machida. I can see people giving him 2nd round as well because it looks a lot closer than it actually was, but on paper the thing about round 2 is that shogun hits machia 21 times, machida hits shogun 7 times and once again shogun is the more accurate striker. 

Everyones arguments have changed, at first they said "obviously shogun had the harder hits and did more damage but machida makes it up by the sheer number of strikes" but then it came out shogun out hit machida 2 to 1. I'll admit I was shocked, I kickbox and I thought machida was close to him in number, guess I was to drunk or not paying enough attention to realize machida was missing and getting blocked a metric ton.


----------



## jcal

Id figured that the Machida fans would want to put up gifs to show his winning of exchanges to help them explain how he won. I only saw the fight once and was not biased at all by Rogan in fact most of the time to me he is just pure annoying. After all I thought he would be hanging on Machidas back not Shoguns. But I really think Shogun won, in fact I thought it was a nobrainer, but it is what it is and im soo over it! cant wait for a rematch. And by the way, I thought that Machida was gonna destroy Shogun before the fight. Im glad to see Shogun is back with a bang.


----------



## alizio

MedicWanteD said:


> If takedowns are worth points then stuffing the takedowns should also be worth just as much to a judge.


 by this awesome logic a blocked haymaker should be worth as much as landing a bomb....

nice pic of shogun after he blocked the running away counters of machida... what does it prove tho?? he likes to fly?


----------



## Biowza

I thought it was funny when they showed the slow-mo replay of Machida's "flurry" at Shogun. He pretty much didn't land anything lol, it just looked intense.


----------



## M.C

Watch the fight again, Machida fans don't need to put up gifs. Watch the first 3 rounds and you will see that Machida counters almost all of Shogun's kicks and he goes on the attack himself quite a few times in the fight.


----------



## alizio

Michael Carson said:


> Watch the fight again, Machida fans don't need to put up gifs. Watch the first 3 rounds and you will see that Machida counters almost all of Shogun's kicks and he goes on the attack himself quite a few times in the fight.


 again, gifs or something.... count to strikes yourself... you mean the round he landed 7 and shogun landed 21?? the 2nd round???

its getting a bit frustrating... ppl just saying "watch it with the volume off" etc etc.... the fight numbers arent a lie, i havent seen anybody dispute them... whats up??

Also whats up with the many machida fans prior to the fight numbers that just said "wait n see, machida was busier and landed more"..... suddenly that arguement went out the window and we are left with "go watch it again" lol not a very solid arguement at all


----------



## M.C

Machida fans don't have any reason to actually debate. To be honest, all we have to say is "go look at any official MMA website and you will see he has a win over Shogun on his resume", 'cause that's what it comes down to.

We all know ("we" as in the ones who watched the fight multiple times, especially without sound, and noticed the many counters Machida put on Shogun as well as other things) that Machida won a very close, razor thin decision. Posting gifs? Why? We don't need gifs to back up our opinions, we know what happened, hell, we are so confident that we are right, that we can point you to many websites that officially says we are right. Also, more and more people everyday are coming on here and saying they think the fight was close and could have gone either way, and that Machida definitely could have won it. As time goes on, more and more will continue to do so, as that is the reality of it.


----------



## xeberus

alizio said:


> again, gifs or something.... count to strikes yourself... you mean the round he landed 7 and shogun landed 21?? the 2nd round???
> 
> its getting a bit frustrating... ppl just saying "watch it with the volume off" etc etc.... the fight numbers arent a lie, i havent seen anybody dispute them... whats up??
> 
> Also whats up with the many machida fans prior to the fight numbers that just said "wait n see, machida was busier and landed more"..... suddenly that arguement went out the window and we are left with "go watch it again" lol not a very solid arguement at all


The number of strikes speak for themselves, shogun out struck machida 2 to 1.


----------



## M.C

xeberus said:


> The number of strikes speak for themselves, shogun out struck machida 2 to 1.


That would work fine and dandy, except there's more to a fight than just striking percentages.


----------



## xeberus

Michael Carson said:


> That would work fine and dandy, except there's more to a fight than just striking percentages.


Yea, but this fight was a striking match so that is the largest part of the bout. But your right there are also take downs, of which shogun attempted 4 and damage which shogun inflicted more of. Aggression and octagon control were not dominated by either fighter in this fight, but even if they were it should not have been enough for machida to beat shogun.

Exactly what else are you scoring that im missing?


----------



## wukkadb

Those were posted on like Sunday. -_-



> I thought it was funny when they showed the slow-mo replay of Machida's "flurry" at Shogun. He pretty much didn't land anything lol, it just looked intense.


Wrong. According to TraiMai he landed 10 strikes.


----------



## M.C

xeberus said:


> Yea, but this fight was a striking match so that is the largest part of the bout. But your right there are also take downs, of which shogun attempted 4 and damage which shogun inflicted more of. Aggression and octagon control were not dominated by either fighter in this fight, but even if they were it should not have been enough for machida to beat shogun.
> 
> Exactly what else are you scoring that im missing?


The majority of Shogun's attacks were to the leg, where as Machida's were to the head (even some of his kicks were to the head) thus resulting in more striking points. If you were to kick my leg 20 times in a fight, but 70% of the time I countered with a punch or two to your head, as well as going on the offensive and kicking/punching you outsie of just countering you, I would get the most points based of hitting your head and trying to counter to finish, rather than playing it safe and simply kicking the legs. The takedowns were stuffed very easily, Shogun didn't even get close to taking Machida down. They were all failed, very, very failed attempts at getting Machida down.


----------



## M.C

xeberus said:


> Yea, but this fight was a striking match so that is the largest part of the bout. But your right there are also take downs, of which shogun attempted 4 and damage which shogun inflicted more of. Aggression and octagon control were not dominated by either fighter in this fight, but even if they were it should not have been enough for machida to beat shogun.
> 
> Exactly what else are you scoring that im missing?


The majority of Shogun's attacks were to the leg, where as Machida's were to the head (even some of his kicks were to the head) thus resulting in more striking points. If you were to kick my leg 20 times in a fight, but 70% of the time I countered with a punch or two to your head, as well as going on the offensive and kicking/punching you outsie of just countering you, I would get the most points based of hitting your head and trying to counter to finish, rather than playing it safe and simply kicking the legs. Also, Machida avoided a lot of Shogun's attacks, making Shogun miss, which shows "control" in the striking aspect, as he is able to dodge and avoid a lot of what Shogun had to offer.

The takedowns were stuffed very easily, Shogun didn't even get close to taking Machida down. They were all failed, very, very failed attempts at getting Machida down.


----------



## xeberus

Michael Carson said:


> The majority of Shogun's attacks were to the leg, where as Machida's were to the head (even some of his kicks were to the head) thus resulting in more striking points. If you were to kick my leg 20 times in a fight, but 70% of the time I countered with a punch or two to your head, as well as going on the offensive and kicking/punching you outsie of just countering you, I would get the most points based of hitting your head and trying to counter to finish, rather than playing it safe and simply kicking the legs. Also, Machida avoided a lot of Shogun's attacks, making Shogun miss, which shows "control" in the striking aspect, as he is able to dodge and avoid a lot of what Shogun had to offer.
> 
> The takedowns were stuffed very easily, Shogun didn't even get close to taking Machida down. They were all failed, very, very failed attempts at getting Machida down.


Even so shogun hit him more in the head than machida did him.

Once again he could not have counted more than half of shoguns strikes, and that would make 100% of machidas strikes counters. Which is ridiculous.

Shogun was able to avoid machida much more than machida was able to avoid him, especially when it came to landing strikes as not only did shogun land twice as many his missed far less and got blocked far less.


----------



## M.C

xeberus said:


> Even so shogun hit him more in the head than machida did him.
> 
> Once again he could not have counted more than half of shoguns strikes, and that would make 100% of machidas strikes counters. Which is ridiculous.
> 
> Shogun was able to avoid machida much more than machida was able to avoid him, especially when it came to landing strikes as not only did shogun land twice as many his missed far less and got blocked far less.


Based on what? That website? Watching the fight and looking at percentages by a fan made website are completely different. The actual fight shows many counters in the first rounds as well as aggressive striking from Machida, including a head kick, body kicks, few leg kicks, a leg trip, and that he avoided many of Shogun's attacks.


----------



## xeberus

Michael Carson said:


> Based on what? That website? Watching the fight and looking at percentages by a fan made website are completely different. The actual fight shows many counters in the first rounds as well as aggressive striking from Machida, including a head kick, body kicks, few leg kicks, a leg trip, and that he avoided many of Shogun's attacks.


Well both. He may have a few counters but it still remains he was out struck by a huge margin, he was less accurate, and did less damage.


----------



## M.C

xeberus said:


> Well both. He may have a few counters but it still remains he was out struck by a huge margin, he was less accurate, and did less damage.


Shogun's kicks are the reason for this "less accurate" point you are trying to make. Machida's counters to the head >> Shogun's kicks, which is why even though they were fewer, they count higher in points. In the judges eyes, countering to the head (where the fight can be finished) scores many more points than leg kicks, regardless of power behind them. While Shogun was kicking his legs, Machida was roughly 70% of the time(we're talking the first 3 rounds, as Machida lost the last two) countering with punches to the head. Punches to the head count more in points than kicks to the legs and body. Not to mention Machida did go on the offense in those rounds, landing kicks to the body and legs(not many legs kicks) himself, as well as, and this is the most important part, kicks and punchs to the head of Shogun.

That's just how it is, it's always been like that, always.


----------



## xeberus

Michael Carson said:


> Shogun's kicks are the reason for this "less accurate" point you are trying to make. Machida's counters to the head >> Shogun's kicks, which is why even though they were fewer, they count higher in points. In the judges eyes, countering to the head (where the fight can be finished) scores many more points than leg kicks, regardless of power behind them. While Shogun was kicking his legs, Machida was roughly 70% of the time(we're talking the first 3 rounds, as Machida lost the last two) countering with punches to the head. Punches to the head count more in points than kicks to the legs and body. Not to mention Machida did go on the offense in those rounds, landing kicks to the body and legs(not many legs kicks) himself, as well as, and this is the most important part, kicks and punchs to the head of Shogun.
> 
> That's just how it is, it's always been like that, always.


Actually that is not true. The only strikes machida landed more of and was more accurate with were shots to the body. To the head, shogun was a head (lol) and more accurate.

And that is just not possible, especially in round 2 where shogun landed 3 times as many strikes as machida and round 1 where shogun landed nearly twice as many. And in round 1 machida landed to shoguns head 1 of 8 attempts, in round 2 he landed 2 of 10 attempts. 

Machida's countering with punches was almost completely ineffective as he missed nearly all of them, almost all of his success in the fight was with strikes to the body of shogun.

Hey I'm tired of switching back and forth in threads, can we just talk about it here or there?


----------



## M.C

xeberus said:


> Actually that is not true. The only strikes machida landed more of and was more accurate with were shots to the body. To the head, shogun was a head (lol) and more accurate.
> 
> And that is just not possible, especially in round 2 where shogun landed 3 times as many strikes as machida and round 1 where shogun landed nearly twice as many. And in round 1 machida landed to shoguns head 1 of 8 attempts, in round 2 he landed 2 of 10 attempts.
> 
> Machida's countering with punches was almost completely ineffective as he missed nearly all of them, almost all of his success in the fight was with strikes to the body of shogun.
> 
> Hey I'm tired of switching back and forth in threads, can we just talk about it here or there?


Where are you getting these stats? I am very, very, very, very curious. Twice as many? According to whom? What I see and what many others see, is Machida landing around the same amount of strikes, most of which were to Shogun's head, where as Shogun's were to his legs.

That website is inaccurate, it isn't fact, nore is it correct. I've watched the fight, and Machida hits him quite a few times to the head via counters, he hits his body, and he does a leg kick or two(not many at all in the leg department). In fact, the only way I would see Shogun winning round 1 is if you count him trying to take Machida down, where Machida easily stuffed his takedown attempt. Rounds 2 and 3 were very close, but scored for Machida based on counters to the head, easily stuffed takedowns, his own aggressive attacks, his ability to avoid a lot of Shogun's attacks.

The fight as a whole Machida won the very close rounds, and won round 1 without much debate in my eyes(although I can see where it could be said to be very close).

I have Machida winning round 1, winning round 2 and 3 which were both very close, and losing round 4 and 5.

We can discuss here, it is a bit annoying going back and forth. :thumbsup:

EDIT - By "around the same", I mean that Shogun landed more total strikes based on leg kicks, but it's not so massive that it's a large leap.


----------



## xeberus

Michael Carson said:


> Where are you getting these stats? I am very, very, very, very curious. Twice as many? According to whom? What I see and what many others see, is Machida landing around the same amount of strikes, most of which were to Shogun's head, where as Shogun's were to his legs.
> 
> That website is inaccurate, it isn't fact, nore is it correct. I've watched the fight, and Machida hits him quite a few times to the head via counters, he hits his body, and he does a leg kick or two(not many at all in the leg department). In fact, the only way I would see Shogun winning round 1 is if you count him trying to take Machida down, where Machida easily stuffed his takedown attempt. Rounds 2 and 3 were very close, but scored for Machida based on counters to the head, easily stuffed takedowns, his own aggressive attacks, his ability to avoid a lot of Shogun's attacks.
> 
> The fight as a whole Machida won the very close rounds, and won round 1 without much debate in my eyes(although I can see where it could be said to be very close).
> 
> I have Machida winning round 1, winning round 2 and 3 which were both very close, and losing round 4 and 5.
> 
> We can discuss here, it is a bit annoying going back and forth. :thumbsup:


We'll mostly from that website, but I've rewatched the fight so many times I actually started counting myself and after the website proved to be the same as what I was getting I'm pretty sure its accurate. You know that huge flurry machida threw, the one where he took that huge right hand? First time I saw that I thought machida had him in trouble but after re-watching it and seeing machida actually miss or have blocked almost every single shot I realized it was easy to mistake machida winning that instead wasting energy and getting rocked. And similarly I noticed just how often machidas shots were actually not landing. If the rules were changed to who could "almost" hit the other guy without actually hitting him machida would have won the fight hands down.

Well I'd say the attempted take down was icing on the cake, shogun just landed way more than machida did in round 1. The difference im seeing is that machidas counters missed a lot, "attempted counters" do not count 

I would give machida round 3, but i'd be very hard pressed to give either 1 or 2. 

I'll tell you what, I will re-watch rounds 1 and 2 like right now and try to see where you are coming from. But remember its only because I want to sex you.


----------



## M.C

xeberus said:


> We'll mostly from that website, but I've rewatched the fight so many times I actually started counting myself and after the website proved to be the same as what I was getting I'm pretty sure its accurate. You know that huge flurry machida threw, the one where he took that huge right hand? First time I saw that I thought machida had him in trouble but after re-watching it and seeing machida actually miss or have blocked almost every single shot I realized it was easy to mistake machida winning that instead wasting energy and getting rocked. And similarly I noticed just how often machidas shots were actually not landing. If the rules were changed to who could "almost" hit the other guy without actually hitting him machida would have won the fight hands down.
> 
> Well I'd say the attempted take down was icing on the cake, shogun just landed way more than machida did in round 1. The difference im seeing is that machidas counters missed a lot, "attempted counters" do not count
> 
> I would give machida round 3, but i'd be very hard pressed to give either 1 or 2.
> 
> I'll tell you what, I will re-watch rounds 1 and 2 like right now and try to see where you are coming from. But remember its only because I want to sex you.


I'll let you watch it and then respond, as there's really not a whole like I can say that hasn't been said, you know?

The first round I have Machida winning without a large debate, other than Shogun going for the takedown. It wasn't a dominating round, but It's not as competitive as the others, IMO.

As far as sexing me up, all this debate tension is going to make me rock your world.


----------



## Ruckus

Apollo33 said:


> Really?? Everyone wants to waste another half hour of their lives watching nothing happen??
> 
> And the debate is already over! The conclusion: NEITHER of them deserve the title (or a rematch) because they showed for a full 25 minutes that they didn't care to win!
> 
> How many times did Rua go for Machida's head, or even for a takedown? (Was he trying to win by ruptured internal organs?) And Machida, who should've known he was behind on the scorecard, hardly tried anything the last round. It was just pitiful.


Not sure what fight you were watching or expected to see. This fight had both fighters not really willing to go the ground and a constant chess match of counter punching. I look forward to the rematch and hopefully this one won't go to the judges. It's like Dana White always says, "don't let it go to the judges". I had the fight at 48-47 for Rua so a decision for Machida at the same score is not a complete hypocrisy.


----------



## xeberus

Michael Carson said:


> I'll let you watch it and then respond, as there's really not a whole like I can say that hasn't been said, you know?
> 
> The first round I have Machida winning without a large debate, other than Shogun going for the takedown. It wasn't a dominating round, but It's not as competitive as the others, IMO.
> 
> As far as sexing me up, all this debate tension is going to make me rock your world.


Yea 

im 2:45 1st round, that headkick looks totally blocked to me. shogun almost gets him down and at the first of the round shogun lands a decent punch to lyotos face. between the clinching and shogun pushing the pace and I think that gives him octagon control. Shogun comes forward with a kick to the thigh and machida misses with a 1-2 counter. Machida misses a kick and shogun lands a counter leg kick, shogun throws a mean leg kick and blocks a punch from lyoto he goes back because he was on one leg (cause he was kicking lyoto, but he took his counter on the forearm). nice body kick from lyoto followed by a punch to the body both land. :20 left in the round shogun lands another leg kick and lyoto counters with a left but is blocked. shogun throws another leg kick as the round closes cant tell if it lands, machida comes after him and throws a straight left but is blocked. 

End of round 1.

shogun misses a leg kick, machida might have landed an up kick to the body cant tell. shogun blocks a punch. glancing leg kick from shogun 4:11, machida lands 1 possibly a 2nd in a 4 punch combo. machida kicks to the body. kick lands from shogun. shogun misses a kick 3:31, shogun lands a leg kick machida counters with a 1-2 both are blocked. knee to the body of shogun, take down attempt and clinching. weak takedown attempt, leg kick from lyoto. kick from shogun. another kick from shogun, machida kick to the body. shogun lands 1 in a 3 punch combo then a kick to the body 1:50. lyoto misses a kick, shogun lands a kick lyoto throws a counter straight left which misses. huge jump kick to the body of lyoto, lyoto throws a counter left hook that hits shogun in the shoulder (took me 5 re-watches to see where he hit him). lyoto knee to the body followed by shogun clinching him against the fence. lots of knees to the legs of machida, elbow from shogun glances lyoto as he pushes off him. 

End of round 2

Man the more I watch the more I think shogun won these rounds by. At first glance it looks like machida hits shogun a lot, but he really doesn't, I had to rewatch a ton of engagements which is why it took me so long to respond.

mhmm the bedroom is the best place to err... bring the violence


----------



## M.C

You forgot to put in the clinch in the first where he lands 3-4 knees to Shogun's body. The first round, other than Shogun's takedown attempt, was basically Shogun using kicks, while Machida kicks and counters. Second round was closer, but basically the same.

I'm not going to break it down as you did, as that would take a long time (as you know, you just did it). 

There's nothing extra I can tell you, man, most people, even the ones saying Shogun won, thought Machida at the very least won either round 1 or 2, and then 3 for a 3 to 2 for Shogun. I personally thought he won both, as well as the third. The general thought for pro Machida is he won the first three, and Shogun won the last two. It just depends on how you score the fight. Shogun's easily shrugged off takedown attempts, the counters Machida did put on him, his own aggressive strikes (moving forward to kick the body and head), etc, won him a very close decison in the first 3 rounds.

There's honestly not much else I can say to you. If you watch the fight again and still see Shogun winning the first two(or three, if that's the case) then I don't know what to say.

The only rounds I saw Shogun winning was 4 and 5, and the first 3 were close, but Machida did enough to pull them out.

Bedroom is not the best place, on the beach in 20 minutes. Bring lube.


----------



## name goes here

The judges gave Machida points for stuffing Shoguns take downs though (not that I agree with that - but that is a question of the criteria, not the execution).

Also I don't have slow motion so I can't go into the level of detail you do.

Imo any judging criteria is going to be dissapointing half the time. Perfect judges or not


----------



## streetpunk08

I've watched the fight a buncha times and i still don't see how Machida could have won 2 rounds let alone 3, Lyoto did try and counter alot but the problem was the majority of his counters were blocked, blocked shots aren't supposed to score points, that would be the same as saying every time someone misses when they try and hit Machida that scores, if that was the case I'm not sure Machida would ever win any of his fights aside from the few he finished. The fightmetrics report may not be 100% accurate but I doubt they would be THAT much off as the say Shogun landed twice as many shots as Machida, the reason it looks skewed is because that site doesnt score blocked counter's, and in those flurries again most of the punches missed or were blocked. Can't wait for the rematch

EDIT: The only way I can see scoring this fight for Machida is if punches count more than kicks which I think in a sport like this is retarted, not to mention kicks are usually harder than punches for the most part.


----------



## xeberus

Michael Carson said:


> You forgot to put in the clinch in the first where he lands 3-4 knees to Shogun's body. The first round, other than Shogun's takedown attempt, was basically Shogun using kicks, while Machida kicks and counters. Second round was closer, but basically the same.
> 
> I'm not going to break it down as you did, as that would take a long time (as you know, you just did it).
> 
> There's nothing extra I can tell you, man, most people, even the ones saying Shogun won, thought Machida at the very least won either round 1 or 2, and then 3 for a 3 to 2 for Shogun. I personally thought he won both, as well as the third. The general thought for pro Machida is he won the first three, and Shogun won the last two. It just depends on how you score the fight. Shogun's easily shrugged off takedown attempts, the counters Machida did put on him, his own aggressive strikes (moving forward to kick the body and head), etc, won him a very close decison in the first 3 rounds.
> 
> There's honestly not much else I can say to you. If you watch the fight again and still see Shogun winning the first two(or three, if that's the case) then I don't know what to say.
> 
> The only rounds I saw Shogun winning was 4 and 5, and the first 3 were close, but Machida did enough to pull them out.
> 
> Bedroom is not the best place, on the beach in 20 minutes. Bring lube.


half asleep post, my wife woke me up a while ago we have this rule... anyways...

I was thinking back to when shogun kicked and machida tried to counter multiple times. If I were to see those as machida hitting shogun (countering) instead of him blocking those and that jumping kick I think I saw in the 2nd round which hit his shoulder but he was turning left into the kick which he landed which makes him look like he's getting hit in the face and that is what is turning him then maybe i can see people giving him the second, and if they see those countered that were blocked on shoguns arms as he kicked and he went backwards to catch himself as if machida countered and "rocked" him maybe i could see someone giving these rounds to machida. 

I think our differing opinions are based on whether shogun blocked these strikes or whether they landed. 


oh i shall be on that bench wearing leather ^_-

im hungry so ima make some food before i head back to bed, so i ill check in and see if you posted again then. if not happy discussion  and maybe we'll continue it tomorrow sometime.


----------



## M.C

xeberus said:


> half asleep post, my wife woke me up a while ago we have this rule... anyways...
> 
> I was thinking back to when shogun kicked and machida tried to counter multiple times. If I were to see those as machida hitting shogun (countering) instead of him blocking those and that jumping kick I think I saw in the 2nd round which hit his shoulder but he was turning left into the kick which he landed which makes him look like he's getting hit in the face and that is what is turning him then maybe i can see people giving him the second, and if they see those countered that were blocked on shoguns arms as he kicked and he went backwards to catch himself as if machida countered and "rocked" him maybe i could see someone giving these rounds to machida.
> 
> I think our differing opinions are based on whether shogun blocked these strikes or whether they landed.
> 
> 
> oh i shall be on that bench wearing leather ^_-
> 
> im hungry so ima make some food before i head back to bed, so i ill check in and see if you posted again then. if not happy discussion  and maybe we'll continue it tomorrow sometime.


It'll always be about how people score fights, especially one like this. This will be one of those that goes on forever about who actually won the fight. Hell, you and I just spent like an hour debating the EXACT SAME DEBATE in 2 different threads, lol.

Leather... mmmm.... God, yes!


----------



## name goes here

The judges had to decide then and there if the strikes were landing. No slo mo, now rewatching.


----------



## TraMaI

name goes here said:


> The judges had to decide then and there if the strikes were landing. No slo mo, now rewatching.


This. In my previous post I made a statement about Shogun's body language making the shots look like they did damage and landed flush, so whether or not they did, the judges perceived it that way due to body language.


----------



## coldcall420

To me the round Machida won the most convincingly was the 3rd...FTR I have him winning 123....:thumbsup:


----------



## Hawkeye6287

alizio said:


> by this awesome logic a blocked haymaker should be worth as much as landing a bomb....


Not really, if it is taken as matter of octagon control instead of damage. If you get points for taking someone down who wants to stay on his feet then you should get points for keeping the fight standing when your opponent tries to take you down. 

Its not a damage thing cos we have seen people win a round with a takedown even if they did no damage to their opponent when they got to the ground. 

There needs to be a clarification of what exactly determines scoring here. I know they have the official criteria but clearly judges are having widely different interpretations of what scores and what does not.


----------



## Mjr

According to some more of the senior members on this forum, If Machida lands a punch it is multiplied by 3 because he is the champion. "BUT HE COUNTERED SHOGUN GUYS DIDN'T YOU SEE"

The same people also believe that FightMetric is run by the old Chutebox Academy.


----------



## Soojooko

I shall use this moment to conveniently plug my breakdown from earlier on today.

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/64680-dissecting-machida-vs-shogun.html

Rounds 2 and 3 are Lyotos for sure. As are 4 and 5 for Shogun. Round one is hugely debatable. The judge that gave round 4 to Lyoto is a muppet.


----------



## coldcall420

Mjr said:


> According to some more of the senior members on this forum, If Machida lands a punch it is multiplied by 3 because he is the champion. "BUT HE COUNTERED SHOGUN GUYS DIDN'T YOU SEE"
> 
> The same people also believe that FightMetric is run by the old Chutebox Academy.


 
Actually it according to the Judges and their explaination of which strikes count for what and the manor in which they score points. Senior members of this forum didnt write that, one of the Judges did, we are simply reitterating them....:thumbsup:


----------



## Mjr

coldcall420 said:


> Actually it according to the Judges and their explaination of which strikes count for what and the manor in which they score points. Senior members of this forum didnt write that, one of the Judges did, we are simply reitterating them....:thumbsup:


:thumb02: A decision that is being widely regarded in the MMA community as a mistake! I could run around and paste all the old thread info and links in here, but that would be a waste of time, we both know it. 

Machida was saved by by bad judging and either bad interpretation of the rules or outside factors, most likely bad judging. 

I am not going to try sway you on this CC, I never doubted for a second that you would even credit shogun with the win. But when there is overwhelming support for Shogun I don't really need to argue the point. I see in previous threads you noted a few sources that think Machida won, but those sources are few and far between. 

There isn't even a split down the middle of the community it is so lopsided it isn't funny. Guys like yourself and Michael Carson were posting alot prior to the fight, saying that it was next to impossible for Shogun to win, and it seems post fight you still have a hard time imagining it. 

As I said above, I don't really need to create an argument here because the majority of the MMA community are doing it for me, Journalists, Forum Users, and the president of the UFC just to name a few. I am not trying to attack your credibility and I am also not posting to fling shit around like 50% of the Shogun supporters are on here doing. But I would just like to see you clear your mind for a bit.

I love Lyoto, and if it was any other fighter that was out there on saturday night I would have comments ready like "He was over-hyped by the UFC and was exposed" 

Lyoto isn't over-hyped by any means he is one of the most talented fighters in the division, he just had a bad night and got smacked around by a very talented and experienced Shogun. 

Thanks, and no offense intended


----------



## ufcrules

Hawkeye6287 said:


> Not really, if it is taken as matter of octagon control instead of damage. If you get points for taking someone down who wants to stay on his feet then you should get points for keeping the fight standing when your opponent tries to take you down.
> 
> Its not a damage thing cos we have seen people win a round with a takedown even if they did no damage to their opponent when they got to the ground.
> 
> There needs to be a clarification of what exactly determines scoring here. I know they have the official criteria but clearly judges are having widely different interpretations of what scores and what does not.


Hit a guy, kick a guy or take a guy down=point
stuff a takedown, block a punch=bubkus


----------



## shatterproof

wierd, i scored the same as the first two. Can't please everyone :thumb02:



Mjr said:


> I don't really need to create an argument here


But... you did for 5 paragraphs. ha.


----------



## alizio

well, your only the undisputed champ if it isnt being disputed... even the ppl that thought machida won are disputing.... if they really thought he did, why would they feel the need to enlighten the majority that didnt??

Just call him the "disputed" champ til the rematch, we will all be happy


----------



## Mjr

shatterproof said:


> But... you did try for 5 paragraphs. ha.
> 
> way to :sarcastic07:


sigh, I didn't break the fight down piece by piece which has been done to death.
Can you leave this crap in the other thread where I neg repped you for being a smart ass to another member.:thumb02:

Edit: PM me if your pissed about it rather than make sly comments under my posts.
thanks


----------



## shatterproof

Sorry buddy, called it like it is. The horse is dead. 

Neg away my friend! I will wear it with pride :thumb02:


----------



## coldcall420

Mjr said:


> :thumb02: A decision that is being widely regarded in the MMA community as a mistake! I could run around and paste all the old thread info and links in here, but that would be a waste of time, we both know it.
> 
> Machida was saved by by bad judging and either bad interpretation of the rules or outside factors, most likely bad judging.
> 
> I am not going to try sway you on this CC, I never doubted for a second that you would even credit shogun with the win. But when there is overwhelming support for Shogun I don't really need to argue the point. I see in previous threads you noted a few sources that think Machida won, but those sources are few and far between.
> 
> There isn't even a split down the middle of the community it is so lopsided it isn't funny. *Guys like yourself and Michael Carson were posting alot prior to the fight, saying that it was next to impossible for Shogun to win, and it seems post fight you still have a hard time imagining it. *
> 
> As I said above, I don't really need to create an argument here because the majority of the MMA community are doing it for me, Journalists, Forum Users, and the president of the UFC just to name a few. I am not trying to attack your credibility and I am also not posting to fling shit around like 50% of the Shogun supporters are on here doing. But I would just like to see you clear your mind for a bit.
> 
> I love Lyoto, and if it was any other fighter that was out there on saturday night I would have comments ready like "He was over-hyped by the UFC and was exposed"
> 
> Lyoto isn't over-hyped by any means he is one of the most talented fighters in the division, he just had a bad night and got smacked around by a very talented and experienced Shogun.
> 
> Thanks, and no offense intended


 
I really hope you dont feel like you cannot engage me in discussion cuz thats what the forum is for. In short we disagree....thats fine i think we both are cool with that. I scored the 123 for Machida....period

4-5 were ugly and def left Machida in a position to be finished, that didnt occur. Shoguns bad.....

I dont feel as if you are attacking my credability as that has been cemented for yrs here. I too can place many links showing you industry fighters who scored it for Machida and in the end really it comes down to everyone not agreeing on round 1....

In the post fight presser they all think they won different rounds it was quite funny to hear...


In your referrence to Michael and myself...I would take ecxeption with that, as we both have cleary pointed out that there was a flaw expose by Shogun....I think the confusion lies in that we both are still equally confident that Machida can adapt to this whole in his game and most other do not.

Also, there has been alot of discredit given to the counter attacks that came from Machida.....fan or not, its true in regards to the forum...

Funny the forum went from a bunch of people who were all saying Machida will win, now they are all saying Shogun will win.....funny how people flip flop....Not me, if i felt he lost i would honestly have posted it....i didnt, as a matter of fact 1 friend was at my house and while Lyoto and rua were side by side waiting I said"Machida is gonna keep the belt" right then they announced Machida...

To my paragraph above, go to the thread who wins it Machida / Rua....the night of the fight cuz i was on the forum thaty poll was like 82% in favor of Machida and 18% for Rua look at it now.....

My point is alot of people on this forum flip flop......if you lok at that poll now, after the fact, people have voted after the fight for Shogun....totally stupid but now its like 52% Machida and like 48% Rua the last time I checked......retarded!!!

Anyway, always come to me dude and always I am intrsted to hear your opinion, even if we disagree this exchange is a perfect example of what makes this forum great, two people can discuss somthing and even if they dont see it the same........we can have a civil conversation.....:thumbsup:

Good Stuff....


----------



## Mjr

Just briefly as its f'ing late here!

Yeah I agree with some points here and the fight was all over the place.
All good just didn't want to make it look like I was pissing all over your opinion, some of the other threads are a complete shitfight. 

I'd much rather argue the point with Micheal and yourself because both your opinions remain stable and you don't sway around on a fight to fight basis.

Cheers.


----------



## jcal

xeberus said:


> Actually that is not true. The only strikes machida landed more of and was more accurate with were shots to the body. To the head, shogun was a head (lol) and more accurate.
> 
> And that is just not possible, especially in round 2 where shogun landed 3 times as many strikes as machida and round 1 where shogun landed nearly twice as many. And in round 1 machida landed to shoguns head 1 of 8 attempts, in round 2 he landed 2 of 10 attempts.
> 
> Machida's countering with punches was almost completely ineffective as he missed nearly all of them, almost all of his success in the fight was with strikes to the body of shogun.
> 
> Hey I'm tired of switching back and forth in threads, can we just talk about it here or there?


Yeahh xeberus! right on! We need you and Alizio to be the spokesman for that fight. Cause we know what we saw. I was in the gym and the mma guys in the gym were talking about the big ripoff too.


----------



## hitmachine44

IMHO, the most telling thing to me is the fact that every time Lyoto was asked if he feels he won the fight he kept saying "there were three judges blah blah blah." I'm pretty sure if he felt he won the fight he would've definitively said "Yes, I feel the judges decision was correct.", but that's just me.


----------



## alizio

you know machida loves to stay on the defensive, even when talking, octogan control baby!!


----------



## BlacklistShaun

jcal said:


> Yeahh xeberus! right on! We need you and Alizio to be the spokesman for that fight. Cause we know what we saw. I was in the gym and the mma guys in the gym were talking about the big ripoff too.


Heck, I train MMA for years and I feel Shogun was ripped off. All the guys in my gym feel the same way. There was only one guy who said "if you wanna be the champ you gotta beat the champ" defending Machida, but I don't agree with that. When two guys walk into the cage it should be on equal ground, one should not be looked at with an advantage to start strictly because he's currently the champion.


----------



## Soojooko

So, I break down the fight hit by hit to make sure I'm not deluding myself. I see the fight was damn close. I write that shit up to help the debate... and yet still, ROBBERY! RIP OFF!

Shogun only won rounds 4 and 5 for sure. Machida did nothing. I'm 100% convinced round 3 was Lyotos. He did some stunning shit in that round. Round 2 was close but most of Shoguns strikes were knees to thigh in the clinch whereas Machidas were mainly kicks to the leg and body.

Only round one is highly debatable. Shogun connected with 40% more hits than Machida but again, a large portion of them were knees to thigh in the clinch.

How on earth does that constitute a rip off?


----------



## coldcall420

*Belfort: I Do Not Have The Ambition To Fight Silva Right Now*

http://www.mmanews.com/ufc/Belfort:-I-Do-Not-Have-The-Ambition-To-Fight-Silva-Right-Now.html



> Tatame.com speaks with Vitor Belfort who doesn't seem interested in a fight with Anderson Silva:
> 
> _Anderson hurt the elbow and he must fight only next year. Do you wanna do one more fight or wait for his recover? _
> 
> _This thing of fighting Anderson is something that I’ve never looked for. I care about him a lot, but started that thing of Dana White talks... I don’t care about fighting for the title, I want to do some more fights. I don’t have this ambition of fighting him (Anderson) now, I didn’t get in __UFC__ looking for it, to take his belt… I never had that thing, I just want to do my work. _
> 
> _Is there anyone else that you’d like to fight and deserve the title shot? _
> 
> _I know I deserve, that’s not the problem, neither the discussion, I just like to make some fights. The belt’s moment is gonna come, there are people that want to talk that I don’t deserve, but I don’t believe that. Anderson is not a guy that I want to fight, I support him a lot, we already trained together, I like him a lot. It’s not a thing that I want to... If the belt were on Nate Marquardt’s hands, if I could choose, I wouldn’t fight with Anderson because I care about him. _


 
Thoughts....


----------



## limitufc

Good. It should make it easy then....don't give the guy the fight. Give it to someone who's hungry for a chance at the title.
I thought it was weird that they offered Belfort the title shot out of the blue like this anyway.


----------



## steveo412

He knows he is not ready for silva yet, possibly intimidated by him and doesnt think he will win. I can see how he would want a few fights in the UFC before being pushed into a shot before he is ready


----------



## coldcall420

Does this change the UFC and Dan Hendersons negotiations I wonder??? Or if they are completely dead, does this revive them at all???


----------



## BlacklistShaun

Too bad, I think it would be a very interresting fight. I think if there is anyone who has hands good enough to take on Silva and make it real competitive it would be Belfort. They are both good on the ground, but personally I think Belfort has the advantage on the ground. I doubt it would go there though, likely a good striking match that would end up with someone getting knocked out.


----------



## Soojooko

hehe! Befort is like, "Fight Silva?!... damn... I just got here."

I say give it to Nate. I haven't seen any vast improvements in Hendos game since they last fount. Marquart on the other hand seems like a completely different fighter to me.

Take those two and Belfort out of the equation and the MW division is looking a bit pale. There aren't even any up and comers that I'm keen to watch. Maybe the Bisping vs Kang fight will throw up a surprise?

Dana needs to get Rumble involved.


----------



## 420atalon

Belfort wants a job, hence why he doesn't want to have Silva kick his ass. If I were him I would be wanting a couple easier fights first as well.


----------



## shatterproof

fair enough, give him another top contender and see what happens. Better not get into one of these 'i wont fight my friend' situations though.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Yea but what would you do if you were Dana White? I mean this actually the only contender for silva! If Dan leaves the UFC now, then Vitor is the only one. 

There are only three things Dana can do. Let them fight at January, give silva some more weeks off or pay a lot of money to Henderson


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

Hear that? It was the sound of Dana's head exploding.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

I am so sick of people not wanting to fight someone they have trained with. Your job is to fight who they tell you to fight. Get the **** over it and do your job or find a different profession. 

Also, Nate doesn't deserve it. First off, hes overrated, second he doesn't stand a chance at all.


----------



## locnott

I think Vitor needs atleast 1 fight at 185 if not 2.
I hope the UFC and Hendo get things worked out and soon..


----------



## JWP

Soojooko said:


> hehe! Befort is like, "Fight Silva?!... damn... I just got here."
> 
> I say give it to Nate. I haven't seen any vast improvements in Hendos game since they last fount. Marquart on the other hand seems like a completely different fighter to me.
> 
> Take those two and Belfort out of the equation and the MW division is looking a bit pale. There aren't even any up and comers that I'm keen to watch. Maybe the Bisping vs Kang fight will throw up a surprise?
> 
> Dana needs to get Rumble involved.


your probably right about nate but silva will beat him again and im not sure i want to see that in what will be one of his last few fights, like you say, yeh who else.

unfortunately it is a pretty sad state of affairs


----------



## Soojooko

JWP said:


> your probably right about nate but silva will beat him again and im not sure i want to see that in what will be one of his last few fights, like you say, yeh who else.
> 
> unfortunately it is a pretty sad state of affairs


Exactly. Probably, Nate will get beat just as Hendo and Belfort would. But, he's the only one working hard, knocking f**kers out and not moaning about anything. When he heard he might have to fight Hendo, he showed Hendo utmost repect by not bitching at all. Hendo started whining about not getting a title shot and completely dismissing Nate as a challenger. And if Belfort doesn't have the nuts for it, then he can piss off as well. 

Whiney moany tossers. Just fight and shut the f**k up already!


----------



## vandalian

I have suspected this for a while. It just seemed too soon.

But in the end, it's just words, anyway. Rampage went public about not wanted to fight Liddell right after Eastman, but he did.

Guess we'll see...


----------



## Toxic

F**** em, these damn Brazillian's get a little annoying with the whole brotherhood I "care" crap. How many epic match ups has this kept from taking place, hell honestly Im amazed Shogun/Machida took place because none of the Brazillian's want to fight each other.Who do these guys fight when they are coming up in the sport? Brazillian's so why cant they fight one once they get to the top? I realize there are people that train together who dont want to fight each other but just because you trained together years ago and are from the same country should not be an excuse.


----------



## AlanS

Wow Belfort isn't really selling the fight for me, I don't know about anyone else.


----------



## coldcall420

Firemass said:


> Wow Belfort isn't really selling the fight for me, I don't know about anyone else.


 
It may end up not happening and Im sure by his remarks he really isnt trying to sell the fight.....:dunno:


----------



## 6toes

Vitor's already lost this fight IMO. If you come into a Silva fight thinking like this, its really only a matter of time...


----------



## AlanS

coldcall420 said:


> It may end up not happening and Im sure by his remarks he really isnt trying to sell the fight.....:dunno:


I figured a fighter would want to sell his PPV Main Event Title fight.

I think Dana has jumped the gun again and mentioned a fight where the participants are less than chuffed about the idea. He should really OK these things first before getting us excited.


----------



## JACro

I posted this yesterday... but I guess because I'm a mudnamer it didn't get any attention..


----------



## coldcall420

*Cecil Peoples: If you don’t like the way I scored ‘Machida vs Shogun’ you can go to h*

http://mmamania.com/2009/10/29/ceci...-scored-machida-vs-shogun-you-can-go-to-hell/




> _“The fans and all the naysayers, I don’t worry about. I don’t back down because it’s not popular. My thing is, Rua did hit him more. But Machida hit him harder, especially in the early rounds. I’m really perplexed about how you give (Rua) [Round 1], because Shogun was kicking (Machida) a lot in the legs, but every time he kicked him in the legs, he got hit in the face. Shogun would put his hand up, and Machida would go right through, sweat’s flying off (Rua’s) face. Shogun kicked (Machida) in the belly –- that’s how he got the red mark. But you gotta remember, Machida is stepping back, so when he gets kicked, he’s getting brushed. But he counters Shogun with a hard kick to the belly. Which one counts more for the exchange? I give it to the (second one), because it was harder. It wasn’t brushed. Machida was controlling that round because he was dominant in not getting beat up in that round. He was the general in that first round. I give the fight to Machida in a very, very close fight. Now you’re pissed off because it’s my fault that you lost your money. No, it’s not. It’s Machida’s fault. If you don’t like it, you can go to hell.”_​Strong words from a defiant and oft-criticized scorekeeper, Cecil Peoples, who places emphasis on the quality of damage inflicted over the total number of strikes landed. Peoples came under fire along with Nelson Hamilton and Marcos Rosales at UFC 104 after awarding a unanimous decision to Lyoto Machida, who appeared to be on the receiving end of a Shogun beatdown in last Saturday’s (Oct. 24) main event. Is Peoples merely a victim of the system? Or a loose cannon with no understanding of what he’s seeing? And how do you respond to his “go to hell” attitude? Sound off, Maniacs.


 
Thoughts....


----------



## chosenFEW

its not just this fight.

you were singled out because of previous scores as well. Mr. peoples has made a name for himself based on his own actions, not by the fans


----------



## Kreed

He is going into this fight with the wrong mindset..I honestly hope he is fooling us all and this is just an honour thing amongst brazillians where he feels he has to say these things so he doesnt come off as a traitor..


----------



## BlacklistShaun

IMO the guy doesn't understand MMA and therefore should not be judging MMA matches. 

It's basically like asking a blind gay man to judge a wet t-shirt contest.


----------



## wakeboy

Strong words, it's okay to have an opinion and stick to it but telling people who question his opinion to go to hell is kinda childish imo.


----------



## alizio

these judges and especially mr. peoples himself are often wrong, seem to have little working knowledge about mma and need more training or just be flat out replaced by guys that trianed and particapated in mma for many years... it's a joke that the vast minority point at a moron like Cecil Peoples and act like he is a very trained eye and it proves them right.... ill take the majority off mma sites and fans over these dysfunctional, know nothing morons anyday. I rather be the ppls champ then Cecil Peoples champ, get it?


----------



## SideWays222

Yeah now i agree with you cecils... now that you told me to go to hell its all better.

**** you you ******* piece of shit. You can go to hell along with your shitty as scoring. Telling people to go to hell because they dont agree with you. Your an idiot. I hope Shogun kicks your ass for stealing his title away from him. :fight02:


----------



## Devil_Bingo

Shouldn't tell fans to go to hell. When i read this first thing i said was, "wow....just....wow" It's a terrible thing to say. But considering alot of MMA fans been saying pretty much same to him i guess not bad for him to stick up for himself. But still, Thats bad.


----------



## wakeboy

From what i've seen Belfort is a very modest man. There was a previous thread in which he states Dan and Nate deserve it more than him. I truly believe that he feels bad about getting this title shot over Dan and Nate because he still hasn't fought at 185 pounds in the ufc and now hes being rushed into a title shot against what I personally view as the p4p king of mma. 

It's also very tough to fight a friend and who knows, maybe anderson won't fight vitor like he wouldn't fight lyoto?

And for anyone saying he doesn't deserve a title shot, look back at the last fight for a belt. Nobody believed shogun deserved an opportunity, but now many believe hes the champion of the lhw division.


----------



## chosenFEW

in other words he's not ready to get outclassed in the cage


----------



## 70seven

I agree with Ceci. Quality over quantity. Shogun landed more strikes and did more damage, but Machida landed the biggest strikes and his accuracy was way higher than Shogun. Like I said in another post, technically speaking Machida was the better fighter, he took a beating and landed fewer strikes, but the strikes he landed counted. Shogun landed many weak strikes, mane were blocked and many were thrown into thin air.


----------



## kay_o_ken

im guessing thats why machida got a medical suspension too, cause of those "not hard" "brushing" kicks you know?

also, telling pretty much every mma fan to go to hell seems like a bad idea


----------



## JackAbraham34

You know that flurry that Machida used in the 3 round ? The hardest punch out of that whole exchange came from Shogun. I don't see Cecil's logic. He's a fuckwit.


----------



## locnott

True colors, I wonder if some of the boxing judges have the same dislike for MMA as the boxers, if so they could have little desire to do what is best for MMA. just wondering.


----------



## Iuanes

Well, its not like people haven't said worse things to him. People get upset because they don't agree with his calls, call him names, now the Peeps is upset because he doesn't agree with people calling him incompetent, blind, corrupt etc.

This is no reflects my view of his judging, but deserved or not, its not like he doesn't take crazy shit. At least he's standing behind and trying to explain the way he judged the fight.


----------



## Nomale

So he's saying that Rua didn't do as much damage as Machida with his strikes? Yeah, that really showed. At the end of the fight Machida looked much more undamaged than Rua :confused03:

Interesting that he says Rua scored more strikes.


----------



## Crester

Something I don't understand is... why is everybody jumping on Cecil Peoples if there were THREE judges?

I agree that the decision was bullshit... but I don't understand why people are picking on just Cecil.


----------



## Uchaaa

I believe him, I think he can judge it better because he was at the event and we were watching the fights with a tv.


----------



## SimplyNate

If you don't like it you can go to hell? Haha This guy is a bigger tool then I previous thought. 

Excuse me for not likeing something.


----------



## caveman

cecils owes me money


----------



## limitufc

JackAbraham34 said:


> You know that flurry that Machida used in the 3 round ? The hardest punch out of that whole exchange came from Shogun. I don't see Cecil's logic. He's a fuckwit.


Who picks the judges? The state or the free market?


----------



## shatterproof

haha, pretty funny actually. Gotta hand him that. I scored the fight the same so i have no qualms with Peoples this time, and to be honest... i like how he presents his opinions here. 

not to say i have agreed with him consistantly though. not at all.


----------



## No_Mercy

Sicilian_Esq said:


> Hear that? It was the sound of Dana's head exploding.


Lolz...&*%$, @*&%, ****, expletives...


----------



## tecnotut

A poll from 2006 asking if Peoples is tthe worst MMA judge?
http://www.ironlife.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72339

Here's his facebook. Share your discontent with him:
http://www.facebook.com/people/Cecil-Peoples/1313926608


----------



## jcal

70seven said:


> I agree with Ceci. Quality over quantity. Shogun landed more strikes and did more damage, but Machida landed the biggest strikes and his accuracy was way higher than Shogun. Like I said in another post, technically speaking Machida was the better fighter, he took a beating and landed fewer strikes, but the strikes he landed counted. Shogun landed many weak strikes, mane were blocked and many were thrown into thin air.


Show us the strikes!


----------



## Nomale

jcal said:


> Show us the strikes!


Exactly.


----------



## Vale_Tudo

I would like Shogun to kick Cecil In the leg


----------



## M.C

What people in this thread are clearly missing is that his breakdown of "harder shots vs. more shots" is based on the first round. Read the quote of his, he is breaking down the first round, not the last two.

In the first round, Machida counters most of Shogun's kicks with hits to the head. Head strikes >>> body/leg strikes in terms of points, regardless of the damage they cause. Head strikes are considered "looking for the finish", where as body/leg strikes are not. Machida didn't land as many strikes as Shogun, but the strikes he did land were to the head mainly, which counts far more then leg kick, body kick, leg kick, leg kick, leg kick, over and over. Strikes to the head, counters to the head, plus your own body/leg kicks >> leg kick over and over in terms of points, even if there were more. 

The fight was very close, but when scored on points and with the scoring system the UFC uses, Machida won a very close decision by pulling out the first 3 rounds.


----------



## osmium

Andy would fight Vitor his camp just doesn't think he deserves to have the belt on the line without having a single fight at 185 in the ufc. Belfort is scared Andy is as dangerous with all 4 weapons striking as Belfort is with 1.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

man that is pretty rough. if he doesnt care what fans think then why is he getting so upset about it?


----------



## M.C

He's probably upset from all the crap people talk about him. This to me is much like the Forrest hate he got after his first interview after his loss to Anderson. People were like "oh, that is messed up, he didn't answer anything!" - I was like, you know what? You're lucky he didn't spout of telling everyone to go to hell for all the crap they keep saying, personally, I thought he held back, as i think Peoples is holding back.


----------



## osmium

Michael Carson said:


> What people in this thread are clearly missing is that his breakdown of "harder shots vs. more shots" is based on the first round. Read the quote of his, he is breaking down the first round, not the last two.
> 
> In the first round, Machida counters most of Shogun's kicks with hits to the head. Head strikes >>> body/leg strikes in terms of points, regardless of the damage they cause. Head strikes are considered "looking for the finish", where as body/leg strikes are not. Machida didn't land as many strikes as Shogun, but the strikes he did land were to the head mainly, which counts far more then leg kick, body kick, leg kick, leg kick, leg kick, over and over. Strikes to the head, counters to the head, plus your own body/leg kicks >> leg kick over and over in terms of points, even if there were more.
> 
> The fight was very close, but when scored on points and with the scoring system the UFC uses, Machida won a very close decision by pulling out the first 3 rounds.


Just let them express their blind rage you shouldn't be bringing obvious logical conclusions into this thread. He has done a terrible job in fights in the past but he is catching way too much shit for this fight it was a unanimous decision and it isn't like he did something crazy like give the fourth to Machida. Be mad at Shogun for not finishing the fight. Tie goes to the champ try harder to finish next time.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Soojooko said:


> hehe! Befort is like, "Fight Silva?!... damn... I just got here."
> 
> I say give it to Nate. I haven't seen any vast improvements in Hendos game since they last fount. Marquart on the other hand seems like a completely different fighter to me.
> 
> Take those two and Belfort out of the equation and the MW division is looking a bit pale. There aren't even any up and comers that I'm keen to watch. Maybe the Bisping vs Kang fight will throw up a surprise?
> 
> Dana needs to get Rumble involved.


I would love to see Rumble in the MW division. It has to be easier for him to make that weight too.



shatterproof said:


> fair enough, give him another top contender and see what happens. Better not get into one of these 'i wont fight my friend' situations though.


Yeah that is getting very old very quick.


----------



## BobbyCooper

osmium said:


> and it isn't like he did something crazy like give the fourth to Machida


mmhh i scored the 4 round a draw 10:10 :confused02:


----------



## jcal

“UFC 104: Machida vs. Shogun” Upon Further Review …
By 5thRound.com Staff
(5thRound.com)
October 26th, 2009


With so much controversy surrounding Saturday day night’s UFC 104 event, we felt is necessary to watch light heavyweight champion Lyoto Machida take on Mauricio “Shogun” Rua again. This time, we took Josh Gross of SI.com’s idea to watch without any commentary as to not be influenced by UFC commentators,Mike Goldberg and Joe Rogan.

Without further adieu, here’s how we saw the scrap the second time around without any outside influences:


Lyoto Machida
(Champion) vs 
Mauricio “Shogun” Rua
(Challenger) 
1stRound: A very relaxed challenger is going blow-for-blow with the champion but Machida is able to use his in-and-out style to throw one scoring strike and is able to back away from danger. Other than a brief Machida flurry that saw him land a couple of shots, the most significant strike was a flying knee that landed in Rua’s midsection as Rua was shooting in for a takedown. Machida takes the 1stRound 10-9. 

2ndRound: As the round begins, you can already see some redness on Machida’s ribs from Rua’s body kicks but Machida still looks as composed as he always does. Rua is owning the center of the Octagon but that could be to Machida’s liking. Every time Rua attacks, Machida is able to land a flying knee or a counter punch to keep Rua at bay. It’s clear to see that Rua is the one pushing the pace of the fight while Machida is content to wait and see. The round is scored as a 10-10 draw.

3rdRound: Rua is starting to look fresher and quicker to the punch but Machida is able to land a quick combination to back Rua off. Machida lands a nice body kick but Rua counters back with a leg kick as you can start to see Rua’s confidence increase. Rua lands a nice elbow while separating from the clinch, it’s hard to see whether or not it landed cleanly. Rua flurries twice but can only land small shots while Machida flurries back and has Rua up against the cage covering up and throwing when he can. Machida is getting the better shots in but Rua lands the biggest strike, a right hook that puts an end to Machida’s rush. Rua narrowly takes the 3rdRound 10-9.

4thRound: A very heavy-footed Machida is making it easier for the fresher-looking Rua to land a few leg kicks. Machida attempts a head kick that’s blocked and he slips while throwing another kick, Rua tries to shoot in for a takedown but is unable to get the champion to his back. Rua lands another elbow after separating from the clinch. Another close round that could go either way but Machida is starting to look worn down, Rua takes the 4thRound 10-9.

5thRound: The fight is now clearly going at Rua’s pace as the kicks to Machida’s body and legs are landing more frequently. Rua comes with a barrage of missed shots until he catches Machida flush in the face with a punch that may have caused a cut near Machida’s lip. The champion shows his first signs of life as he lands a knee to Rua’s chest and forehead with in a Muay-Thai clinch. Rua takes another knee while going for a takedown but doesn’t seem to notice it while clinching with Machida. Once again Machida eats an elbow and a overhand right as they separate. Both fighters are starting to looked gassed as the fight comes to an end. Once again, Rua edges Machida out in the 5thRound.


Based on our unbiased and humble opinion, Rua probably should have won the fight 3 rounds-to-1 or 2, depending on how you scored the the 2ndRound. Something that we should mention is that the fight was a LOT closer the second time around then when we watched it live.

Regardless of the outcome, expect that UFC to together a rematch ASAP as the bitterness remains caught in most MMA fans’ mouths, so you know it will be a hot ticket.


----------



## Adam365

Shogun kicked (Machida) in the belly –- that’s how he got the red mark. But you gotta remember, Machida is stepping back, so when he gets kicked, he’s getting brushed.


Let me get this straight... he's getting brushed by the kick because he's stepping back and apparently not doing any damage, so how do explain Machida switching stances throughout the fight because he kept getting hit in the ribs and also explain to me why when the fight was over Machida could barely raise his left arm to put on his karate outfit. Yeah those kicks did no damage at all. You can also see Machida pretty much give up in the later rounds because he had no answer for the leg kicks.


----------



## jcal

Toxic said:


> F**** em, these damn Brazillian's get a little annoying with the whole brotherhood I "care" crap. How many epic match ups has this kept from taking place, hell honestly Im amazed Shogun/Machida took place because none of the Brazillian's want to fight each other.Who do these guys fight when they are coming up in the sport? Brazillian's so why cant they fight one once they get to the top? I realize there are people that train together who dont want to fight each other but just because you trained together years ago and are from the same country should not be an excuse.


Agreed. But its nothing new. Back in the days b-4 the UFC, the brazilians were fighting Vale Tudo matches with single styles and the jujitsu guys were not supposed to fight other jitz guys and so on. I dont get it.


----------



## kano666

Patrick Cote would take that fight. Unfortunately I think I'm the only one who wants to see it.


----------



## Zenhalo

Toxic said:


> F**** em, these damn Brazillian's get a little annoying with the whole brotherhood I "care" crap.


Yeah- F-brotherhood- it's overrated. :confused05:


----------



## alizio

the only thing more cowardly then trying to back out of a championship fight is ppl that neg rep u and the message they leave things so vulgar i wont repeat it here, yet wont say anything in public.... grown men acting like little girls, and saying the worst things... wow, it's actually one of the most pathetic things i can think of, gratz and gratz to Vitor for being scared of Anderson, i really cant blame you bud, you will get tore up from the floor up if you take this fight.


----------



## jcal

kano666 said:


> Patrick Cote would take that fight. Unfortunately I think I'm the only one who wants to see it.


Id like to see that.


----------



## hitcat

So let me see if I get 5throunds logic correct.
Every time Rua attacks, Machida is able to land a flying knee or a counter punch to keep Rua at bay. Means Draw round 2

Machida is getting the better shots in but Rua lands the biggest strike, a right hook that puts an end to Machida’s rush. Means Rua wins round 3

Rua tries to shoot in for a takedown but is unable to get the champion to his back. Rua lands another elbow after separating from the clinch. Another close round that could go either way but Machida is starting to look worn down Rua gets this close round *over the more common error on the side of the champ.*

and obviously to anyone who won round 1 and 5.
I see that as 4-1 machida, just like I scored it at BW3's and took some poor drunk guys $50.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

This proves Cecil Peoples posts on Sherdog.

I read someplace that Peoples holds a black belt in Karate. If this is true, he'll show a preference to evasiveness. 

Again, Peoples, you and the other judges should spell out your personal criteria so everyone is on the same page. Unfortunately, you and your peers won't do that b/c, well, you're utterly incompetent, and there would then be proof in the Jell-o pudding pop.


----------



## michelangelo

Tough break for Dana and the UFC. Let's see:

1. *Hendo *got owned when Anderson decided he actually wanted to fight (rd. 2)

2. *Marquardt* lasted about six seconds against Anderson.

3. *Okami* looked, to put it politely, less than stellar, in his most recent outing. 

4. a special "cruiserweight 195" division is being created for *Ace* to keep him away from Spider or Machida...

5. ...and now *Belfort*, basically a 205-er, who couldn't even make weight at 195, wants out too. 

Let's continue:

6. a lot of LHW's probably don't want to fight Anderson either.

7. *GSP?* Are you kidding me?

Bottom line: Anderson's a damm freak.


----------



## M.C

He spelled out his criteria as to why he gave Machida the win right there in that quote. He thought Shogun's kicks were not worth as much points as Machida's counters to the head and his own aggressive attacks. 

His criteria is hits to the head, counters, as well as Machida's own aggressive attacks to the body > shogun's repeated leg and body kicks.

The rest of the judges most likely see it the same way, as going to the head, counters, etc, are trying to finish the fight (thus resulting in more points) where as a leg kick over and over with a body kick thrown in once in a while doesn't count as much.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

Michael Carson said:


> He spelled out his criteria as to why he gave Machida the win right there in that quote. He thought Shogun's kicks were not worth as much points as Machida's counters to the head and his own aggressive attacks.
> 
> His criteria is hits to the head, counters, as well as Machida's own aggressive attacks to the body > shogun's repeated leg and body kicks.
> 
> The rest of the judges most likely see it the same way, as going to the head, counters, etc, are trying to finish the fight (thus resulting in more points) where as a leg kick over and over with a body kick thrown in once in a while doesn't count as much.


I want it in writing from each of these judges how they score points. Then, the fighters can train how the judges want them to fight. 

From now on, memo to fighters: No leg kicks if Peoples is reffing. Find another way to fight.


----------



## M.C

Actually, leg kicks are fine, they do score points, but they do not score as much points as hits to the head, especially when the hits to the head are mostly counters, thus giving an idea to the judges that Machida was countering Shogun's attacks.

Head strikes >> body/leg strikes, and Machida did them most of the time in a counter, thus "countering" Shogun's kicks, which in the judges eyes probably also made them lean towards Machida.

It's always been that way, always, it's not anything new.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

Michael Carson said:


> Actually, leg kicks are fine, they do score points, but they do not score as much points as hits to the head, especially when the hits to the head are mostly counters, thus giving an idea to the judges that Machida was countering Shogun's attacks.
> 
> Head strikes >> body/leg strikes, and Machida did them most of the time in a counter, thus "countering" Shogun's kicks, which in the judges eyes probably also made them lean towards Machida.
> 
> It's always been that way, always, it's not anything new.


I don't want to argue Rua / Machida, as I think the horse is atoms, but Machida's "hits" were more pushes, whereas Rua's kicks left welts.


----------



## BobbyCooper

michelangelo said:


> *GSP?* Are you kidding me?


He's the only one!


----------



## M.C

I can understand not wanting to debate it more, it's been done to death, I don't want to do it either. However, the fact is, welts or not, punches to the head >> kicks to the body or legs, as that is considered trying to finish the fight. 

It has always been like that, it'll always be like that.


----------



## jcal

Michael Carson said:


> I can understand not wanting to debate it more, it's been done to death, I don't want to do it either. However, the fact is, welts or not, punches to the head >> kicks to the body or legs, as that is considered trying to finish the fight.
> 
> It has always been like that, it'll always be like that.


So your saying leg kicks dont finish fights:sarcastic12: Whose mouth was bloodied? whos legs were welted? Something stinks


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

jcal said:


> So your saying leg kicks dont finish fights:sarcastic12: Whose mouth was bloodied? whos legs were welted? Something stinks


It's not Michael Carson saying that. He's merely explaining Cecil People's commentary and the rules in general.


----------



## M.C

jcal said:


> So your saying leg kicks dont finish fights:sarcastic12: Whose mouth was bloodied? whos legs were welted? Something stinks


Generally speaking, no, leg kicks don't finish fights. They are used to wear down your opponent to slow their movement and take away from their power.

The mouth being bloodied had nothing to do with kicks, so I have no clue why you brought that up. Cuts don't mean anything, B.J cut Stevenson's face open for a very bloody fight, and that elbow barely even hit him, it just grazed his forehead, which cut him. Cuts don't mean much when scoring a fight.

The UFC scores punches to the head higher than kicks to the body or legs, it's always been like that. Whether you or anyone agrees with it or not is another story, but that is how it is scored, like it or not.



Sicilian_Esq said:


> It's not Michael Carson saying that. He's merely explaining Cecil People's commentary and the rules in general.


Exactly. 

What my personal opinion on scoring is doesn't matter, I can only go by what the judges actually score fights based on, and head strikes score more than leg or body strikes, that's just the way it is. Some parts of the scoring can definitely be changed, worked around, etc, the scoring system is not perfect, but as of now, that's how it is, and probably will remain to be for a long, long, long time.


----------



## swpthleg

Sicilian_Esq said:


> This proves Cecil Peoples posts on Sherdog.
> 
> I read someplace that Peoples holds a black belt in Karate. If this is true, he'll show a preference to evasiveness.
> 
> Again, Peoples, you and the other judges should spell out your personal criteria so everyone is on the same page. Unfortunately, you and your peers won't do that b/c, well, you're utterly incompetent, and there would then be proof in the Jell-o pudding pop.


pudding pop? what?

It's never smart to tell MMA fans to go to hell.


----------



## OliverTwist

Michael Carson said:


> What people in this thread are clearly missing is that his breakdown of "harder shots vs. more shots" is based on the first round. Read the quote of his, he is breaking down the first round, not the last two.
> 
> *In the first round, Machida counters most of Shogun's kicks with hits to the head*. Head strikes >>> body/leg strikes in terms of points, regardless of the damage they cause. Head strikes are considered "looking for the finish", where as body/leg strikes are not. Machida didn't land as many strikes as Shogun, but the strikes he did land were to the head mainly, which counts far more then leg kick, body kick, leg kick, leg kick, leg kick, over and over. Strikes to the head, counters to the head, plus your own body/leg kicks >> leg kick over and over in terms of points, even if there were more.
> 
> The fight was very close, but when scored on points and with the scoring system the UFC uses, Machida won a very close decision by pulling out the first 3 rounds.


At no point in the first round did any of Machida's punches to the head land. They either missed or were blocked. I can't believe people are still bringing up these mythical counter punches. Infact, *the only person to land punches to the head in the first round was Shogun*, a left hook at the start of the round and a right hook near the end. Please tell me when Lyoto lands any punches?

Even Soojooko, who gave the fight to Machida, in this thread doesn't mention any punches landed by Machida in the first round.

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/64680-dissecting-machida-vs-shogun.html

Again, *the vast majority of Lyoto's counter punches miss completely, or are blocked*

To give Machida the round based on these punches is a joke. More likely than not the judges saw these punches and mistakenly thought they connected even though they clearly don't if you watch the fight video.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

swpthleg said:


> pudding pop? what?
> 
> It's never smart to tell MMA fans to go to hell.



Here is Cecil watching the fights...


----------



## Nomale

It does not sound reasonable to me that strikes directed to the head gets more points even when they don't cause any real damage. How does "intentions" of ending a fight by head strikes make one closer to ending a fight? Either you succeed or you don't. What I mean is, the result is what should matter. 

Leg kicks seldom lead to ko by themselves but they cripple your opponent which makes it easier to finish the fight in other ways. -No, Rua didn't succeed in finishing the fight but of course his intention with those kicks was to assist him in finishing the fight in ways which would've been much harder to do otherwise. He did succeed to an extent in damaging and "crippling" Machida but not to take final advantage of it. I can see no real differences in intentions here.


----------



## swpthleg

I got that it was a Bill Cosby reference, but I didn't get the Bill Cosby/Peoples connection.

Any close decision is going to generate heated discussion, and it's unfortunate that a judge with a history of questionable scoring is involved.


----------



## Biowza

Michael Carson said:


> In the first round, Machida counters most of Shogun's kicks with hits to the head. Head strikes >>> body/leg strikes in terms of points, regardless of the damage they cause. Head strikes are considered "looking for the finish", where as body/leg strikes are not. Machida didn't land as many strikes as Shogun, but the strikes he did land were to the head mainly, which counts far more then leg kick, body kick, leg kick, leg kick, leg kick, over and over. Strikes to the head, counters to the head, plus your own body/leg kicks >> leg kick over and over in terms of points, even if there were more.


Ummm, please tell me you're kidding. I honestly wonder if you watched the fight. Machida didn't throw ANY head kicks in the first round, I've just watched the first round twice and he didn't not any...not one. I've actually broken down all his attacks in that round.

Body kick @ 4:10 left in the round
body kick @ 3:13
knee to body @ 3:04 (proceeds to get pressed against the cage and kneed for 30 seconds)
Front leg kick @ 2:18
Punch @ 2:06
leg kick @ 1:33
another body kick @ 0:53

I have no idea what fight you and Cecil Peoples were watching, but it certainly wasn't Machida vs Rua. 



> The fight was very close, but when scored on points and with the scoring system the UFC uses, Machida won a very close decision by pulling out the first 3 rounds


Hmm, let's just break down that first round shall we?

*Striking*- Goes easily to Shogun, he landed much more strikes for more damage
*Grappling*- Shogun pushed Machida against the cage twice and landed about 15 unanswered knees
*Aggression*- Easily Shogun, Machida was backing up nearly that entire round
*Octagon Control*- Shogun had the center of the octagon for almost the whole round



70seven said:


> I agree with Ceci. Quality over quantity. Shogun landed more strikes and did more damage, but Machida landed the biggest strikes and his accuracy was way higher than Shogun. Like I said in another post, technically speaking Machida was the better fighter, he took a beating and landed fewer strikes, but the strikes he landed counted. Shogun landed many weak strikes, mane were blocked and many were thrown into thin air.


Biggest strikes? You just said that Shogun did more damage. Ugh, watch the fight again.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

Nomale said:


> It does not sound reasonable to me that strikes directed to the head gets more points even when they don't cause any real damage. How does "intentions" of ending a fight by head strikes make one closer to ending a fight? Either you succeed or you don't. What I mean is, the result is what should matter.
> 
> Leg kicks seldom lead to ko by themselves but they cripple your opponent which makes it easier to finish the fight in other ways. -No, Rua didn't succeed in finishing the fight but of course his intention with those kicks was to assist him in finishing the fight in ways which would've been much harder to do otherwise. He did succeed to an extent in damaging and "crippling" Machida but not to take final advantage of it. I can see no real differences in intentions here.


In re: to Leg Kicks not meaning as much as head shots, obviously Cecil has never watched an Emerson fight.


----------



## Nomale

Sicilian_Esq said:


> In re: to Leg Kicks not meaning as much as head shots, obviously Cecil has never watched an Emerson fight.


Or Cro Cop vs Hidehiko Yoshida @ Pride openweight 2006.


----------



## M.C

OliverTwist said:


> At no point in the first round did any of Machida's punches to the head land. They either missed or were blocked. I can't believe people are still bringing up these mythical counter punches. Infact, *the only person to land punches to the head in the first round was Shogun*, a left hook at the start of the round and a right hook near the end. Please tell me when Lyoto lands any punches?
> 
> Even Soojooko, who gave the fight to Machida, in this thread doesn't mention any punches landed by Machida in the first round.
> 
> http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/64680-dissecting-machida-vs-shogun.html
> 
> Again, *the vast majority of Lyoto's counter punches miss completely, or are blocked*
> 
> To give Machida the round based on these punches is a joke. More likely than not the judges saw these punches and mistakenly thought they connected even though they clearly don't if you watch the fight video.


The punches land, it's just a matter of how damaging and how clean they land. See, that is what happens when you dissect a fight to that degree. If you were to break down any other decision based fight into such a detail, you would probably find many decisons that you thought were wins, to be much more close and perhaps even given to the other fighter.

Fights are based on what you see when you watch it, and what the judges saw was Machida countering most of Shogun's kicks with punches to the head. How damaging they were, how much they took from Shogun, or exactly where they landed could be seen differently live, 5 feet away, and no rewind to see what hits landed perfectly.

Machida clearly landed shots to the head most of the time when Shogun went for a kick, thus resulting in the judges going that way. Also, even after watching the fight multiple times, Machida still tries to *finish the fight* by countering Shogun's kicks. He TRIED to put him down, where as Shogun simply kept kicking him in the leg, which does not count as much in scoring, regardless of damage caused.



Biowza said:


> Ummm, please tell me you're kidding. I honestly wonder if you watched the fight. Machida didn't throw ANY head kicks in the first round, I've just watched the first round twice and he didn't not any...not one. I've actually broken down all his attacks in that round.
> 
> Body kick @ 4:10 left in the round
> body kick @ 3:13
> knee to body @ 3:04 (proceeds to get pressed against the cage and kneed for 30 seconds)
> Front leg kick @ 2:18
> Punch @ 2:06
> leg kick @ 1:33
> another body kick @ 0:53
> 
> I have no idea what fight you and Cecil Peoples were watching, but it certainly wasn't Machida vs Rua.
> 
> 
> Hmm, let's just break down that first round shall we?
> 
> *Striking*- Goes easily to Shogun, he landed much more strikes for more damage
> *Grappling*- Shogun pushed Machida against the cage twice and landed about 15 unanswered knees
> *Aggression*- Easily Shogun, Machida was backing up nearly that entire round
> *Octagon Control*- Shogun had the center of the octagon for almost the whole round
> 
> 
> Biggest strikes? You just said that Shogun did more damage. Ugh, watch the fight again.


I never said anything about Machida landing a kick to the head. I highly, HIGHLY suggest you learn how to read. I said he landed strikes/punches. I never said anywhere that he landed kicks to the head in the first round. What I said was the he landed kicks in general AS WELL as his counters and strikes to Shogun's head. learn to read posts correctly before coming off so arrogant next time.

Striking - Machida countered to the head, he had his own aggressive attacks, and he landed a few knees himself in the clinch. Knees to the legs against the cage don't count for much, they never have, as they are easily done inside a clinch position against the cage. Machida wins based on trying to finsih the fight (shots to the head). 

The other things are completely debatable. Judges could have saw him shrugging off Shogun's takedown easily as having better grappling. Fighter A shoots in for a takedown, fighter B easily stuffs it. So, fighter B could very well get grappling points. Machida backs away in most fights, that's what counter fighters do, and Machida was countering most of Shogun's kicks. In the judges eyes, backing away (for the reason to counter) and countering for shots to the head > pushing forward and kicking the leg, not only in striking department, but in the control department the judges easily could have saw it as Machida wanting to back away (as he does in every fight) so he could counter (which he did), thus resulting in control of what he wants to happen.


----------



## Mjr

Machida's title loss aside.

Cecil has been a terrible judge for a long time now, this is not doing him any favours!


----------



## coldcall420

Biowza said:


> Ummm, please tell me you're kidding. I honestly wonder if you watched the fight. Machida didn't throw ANY head kicks in the first round, I've just watched the first round twice and he didn't not any...not one. I've actually broken down all his attacks in that round.
> 
> Body kick @ 4:10 left in the round
> body kick @ 3:13
> knee to body @ 3:04 (proceeds to get pressed against the cage and kneed for 30 seconds)
> Front leg kick @ 2:18
> Punch @ 2:06
> leg kick @ 1:33
> another body kick @ 0:53
> 
> I have no idea what fight you and Cecil Peoples were watching, but it certainly wasn't Machida vs Rua.
> 
> 
> Hmm, let's just break down that first round shall we?
> 
> *Striking*- Goes easily to Shogun, he landed much more strikes for more damage
> *Grappling*- Shogun pushed Machida against the cage twice and landed about 15 unanswered knees
> *Aggression*- Easily Shogun, Machida was backing up nearly that entire round
> *Octagon Control*- Shogun had the center of the octagon for almost the whole round
> 
> 
> Biggest strikes? You just said that Shogun did more damage. Ugh, watch the fight again.


 
Fact is you believe Shogun won, Lyoto clearly was the aggressor in the 1st RD in mention. He was throein knee's and pressing the action and Rua was adjusting to that. 

You should just agree to disagree since you think Shogun won and MC thinks Machida won, which he did, cuz if you just look at the first three rounds Lyoto won them......Period.


----------



## 420atalon

Yep, Machida definitely landed the harder shots and Shogun just "brushed" Machida. That is why Machida could barely walk or fight and Shogun looked fine...

I can't wait till Dana finally finds someway to avoid these crap judges and refs.


----------



## OliverTwist

Michael Carson said:


> The punches land, it's just a matter of how damaging and how clean they land. See, that is what happens when you dissect a fight to that degree. If you were to break down any other decision based fight into such a detail, you would probably find many decisons that you thought were wins, to be much more close and perhaps even given to the other fighter.
> 
> Fights are based on what you see when you watch it, and what the judges saw was Machida countering most of Shogun's kicks with punches to the head. How damaging they were, how much they took from Shogun, or exactly where they landed could be seen differently live, 5 feet away, and no rewind to see what hits landed perfectly.
> 
> Machida clearly landed shots to the head most of the time when Shogun went for a kick, thus resulting in the judges going that way. Also, even after watching the fight multiple times, Machida still tries to *finish the fight* by countering Shogun's kicks. He TRIED to put him down, where as Shogun simply kept kicking him in the leg, which does not count as much in scoring, regardless of damage caused.


Dude, the punches do not land..... I've watched the fight more than 5 times now lol and none of them land(in the first round). I'm not talking about how much damage they cause or how clean they land, I'm saying there are no punches from Machida that land in the first round. Thats the thing though, the judges seem to think they did, but if you watch the video they clearly do not. Again, Shogun is the only one who landed shots to the head in the first round. If you count Machida's punches that don't hit as trying to end the fight, what do you call Shogun's punches that do hit? In my opinion, the judges messed up big time. They gave Machida points for punches he did not land.

If the judges cannot judge the fight properly when it comes time to give a decision then clearly something is wrong with the system of judging. Most people are outraged because these judges seem to have no clue what they are talking about. 

*Me and Soojooko both dissected(mine is on the third page) the fight, no punches were landed by Machida in the first round*. If you think they did tell me what time in the round and I'll go and take a look.

Again, because I've been saying this for a couple of days now, *the vast majority of Machidas punches do not land at all*.

Shogun had more strikes, more power strikes, and more strikes to the head. He showed aggression and octagon control. In any metric used to judge this fight the winner is Shogun. 

You can't say Machida won because the judges aren't able to judge a fight properly.


----------



## M.C

OliverTwist said:


> Dude, the punches do not land..... I've watched the fight more than 5 times now lol and none of them land(in the first round). I'm not talking about how much damage they cause or how clean they land, I'm saying there are no punches from Machida that land in the first round. Thats the thing though, the judges seem to think they did, but if you watch the video they clearly do not. Again, Shogun is the only one who landed shots to the head in the first round. If you count Machida's punches that don't hit as trying to end the fight, what do you call Shogun's punches that do hit? In my opinion, the judges messed up big time. They gave Machida points for punches he did not land.
> 
> If the judges cannot judge the fight properly when it comes time to give a decision then clearly something is wrong with the system of judging. Most people are outraged because these judges seem to have no clue what they are talking about.
> 
> *Me and Soojooko both dissected(mine is on the third page) the fight, no punches were landed by Machida in the first round*. If you think they did tell me what time in the round and I'll go and take a look.
> 
> Again, because I've been saying this for a couple of days now, *the vast majority of Machidas punches do not land at all*.
> 
> Shogun had more strikes, more power strikes, and more strikes to the head. He showed aggression and octagon control. In any metric used to judge this fight the winner is Shogun.
> 
> You can't say Machida won because the judges aren't able to judge a fight properly.


The punches do land, it's to what degree. Machida counters and *lands* the punches, however, how hard and to what degree they land(did Shogun have his hands up to block some of it) etc, is what you are talking about. I know you are not saying the missed, as his punches connected, they did connect. The judges saw them as connecting and they hit the head, that is trying to finish the fight.

Machida landed the majority of punches to the head in the first 3, he countered to the head, as well as getting aggressive himself with kicks to the body (and the head, but not in the first round).

After watching a fight 50 times, one can see exactly which punches are dodge, blocked, moved, didn't hit perfectly, didn't do this, didn't do that. Watching the fight 1 time, live, 5 feet away, you would see Machida countering to Shogun's head often, using kicks against him, moving away (what Machida wants to do in a fight), and stuffing a takedown.

Machida won rounds 1 3 and 3 based on these alone. Shogun's kicks were hard, they landed, and there were a total more than Machida's counters to the head. However, shots to the head count for more than kicks to the body and legs, that's a fact, and if you rewatch it 1 time, you would STILL see him hitting Shogun in the head with counters as well as his own aggressive strikes.

That's the way it is, like it or not.


----------



## coldcall420

420atalon said:


> Yep, Machida definitely landed the harder shots and Shogun just "brushed" Machida. That is why Machida could barely walk or fight and Shogun looked fine...
> 
> I can't wait till Dana finally finds someway to avoid these crap judges and refs.


 
That wasnt till the 4th and 5th.....:thumbsup:


----------



## Biowza

> Striking - Machida countered to the head, he had his own aggressive attacks, and he landed a few knees himself in the clinch. Knees to the legs against the cage don't count for much, they never have, as they are easily done inside a clinch position against the cage. Machida wins based on trying to finsih the fight (shots to the head)


He did? When exactly did he counter to the head with any sort of effect? Trying to finish the fight? Please, please tell me which of Machida's punches was thrown with the intention to finish the fight. Shogun through about 3 times as many strikes and landed probably double the amount of shots that Machida did. Machida landed like 3 "punches" and a handful of kicks. That was it. 

Rewatching that first round for the fourth time, Machida really didn't counter much at all. Shogun landed unanswered strikes at 4:34, 4:14, 4:05, from 4:00-3:20, had his own counter at 3:12, 3:00-2:30, 2:10, had his own counter at 1:32 and another unanswered strike at 0:13. 

Machida countered strikes at 1:45, 0:59, 0:48, and 0:21. Half of these I probably shouldn't be giving anyway because both guys threw strikes at the same time. 



> The other things are completely debatable. Judges could have saw him shrugging off Shogun's takedown easily as having better grappling. Fighter A shoots in for a takedown, fighter B easily stuffs it. So, fighter B could very well get grappling points. Machida backs away in most fights, that's what counter fighters do, and Machida was countering most of Shogun's kicks. In the judges eyes, backing away (for the reason to counter) and countering for shots to the head > pushing forward and kicking the leg, not only in striking department, but in the control department the judges easily could have saw it as Machida wanting to back away (as he does in every fight) so he could counter (which he did), thus resulting in control of what he wants to happen.


By "debateable" you mean, you don't have a solid case for why Machida would win something like "Aggression". Do you seriously think that Machida was the more aggresive fighter? Or showed better grappling? Or controlled the octagon? You can't seriously believe any of that. You just seem to be saying "well some people could think that", which is true, some people COULD think that, it doesn't mean that they aren't wrong. I'm sure some people thought that Kalib Starnes was the more aggressive fighter when he fought Nate Quarry.

You're a Machida fan, I get it but there's no point in sticking up for him when he clearly lost.


----------



## OliverTwist

Michael Carson said:


> The punches do land, it's to what degree. Machida counters and *lands* the punches, however, how hard and to what degree they land(did Shogun have his hands up to block some of it) etc, is what you are talking about. I know you are not saying the missed, as his punches connected, they did connect. The judges saw them as connecting and they hit the head, that is trying to finish the fight.
> 
> Machida landed the majority of punches to the head in the first 3, he countered to the head, as well as getting aggressive himself with kicks to the body (and the head, but not in the first round).
> 
> After watching a fight 50 times, one can see exactly which punches are dodge, blocked, moved, didn't hit perfectly, didn't do this, didn't do that. Watching the fight 1 time, live, 5 feet away, you would see Machida countering to Shogun's head often, using kicks against him, moving away (what Machida wants to do in a fight), and stuffing a takedown.
> 
> Machida won rounds 1 3 and 3 based on these alone. Shogun's kicks were hard, they landed, and there were a total more than Machida's counters to the head. However, shots to the head count for more than kicks to the body and legs, that's a fact, and if you rewatch it 1 time, you would STILL see him hitting Shogun in the head with counters as well as his own aggressive strikes.
> 
> That's the way it is, like it or not.


Dude we were talking about the first round. I think most people would agree about the 4th and 5th being Shoguns. I'm not even going to try and argue for the 2nd are 3rd. And yes, I am saying the punches Lyoto threw in the first round missed.

But, *were going in circles here lol*, I keep telling you that Machida doesn't land any punches in the first round. Infact, Shogun lands two powerful hooks. Me and Soojooko both agree to this, even though we scored the fights differently. If you can *tell me the times in the first round where Machida lands a punch* I'm more than willing to change my view of the fight. If not, then sorry, I don't see the point of us continuing to say they do land, they don't land, they do land forever.

I was merely responding to what you said earlier in the thread on page 3:


> In the first round, Machida counters most of Shogun's kicks with hits to the head. Head strikes >>> body/leg strikes in terms of points, regardless of the damage they cause.


I'm saying, and I hope you will atleast go rewatch the first round, *Machida does not land any punches in the first round*. I'm not talking about damage or how clean they landed, they do not land at all.

Going by your own post, Shogun should have been awarded the first round as he scored more strikes, more head strikes, more power strikes, showed aggression and had octagon control in the first round.

You cannot claim that the judges shouldn't be held responsible for making a mess of things.


----------



## xeberus

Cecil buddy, you know I love you but in the most respectful way go fornicate yourself with a metal rod and learn to judge fights.

Still giving bisping 29-28 against hamill to?


Thought so...


----------



## M.C

Biowza said:


> He did? When exactly did he counter to the head with any sort of effect? Trying to finish the fight? Please, please tell me which of Machida's punches was thrown with the intention to finish the fight. Shogun through about 3 times as many strikes and landed probably double the amount of shots that Machida did. Machida landed like 3 "punches" and a handful of kicks. That was it.
> 
> Rewatching that first round for the fourth time, Machida really didn't counter much at all. Shogun landed unanswered strikes at 4:34, 4:14, 4:05, from 4:00-3:20, had his own counter at 3:12, 3:00-2:30, 2:10, had his own counter at 1:32 and another unanswered strike at 0:13.
> 
> Machida countered strikes at 1:45, 0:59, 0:48, and 0:21. Half of these I probably shouldn't be giving anyway because both guys threw strikes at the same time.
> 
> 
> By "debateable" you mean, you don't have a solid case for why Machida would win something like "Aggression". Do you seriously think that Machida was the more aggresive fighter? Or showed better grappling? Or controlled the octagon? You can't seriously believe any of that. You just seem to be saying "well some people could think that", which is true, some people COULD think that, it doesn't mean that they aren't wrong. I'm sure some people thought that Kalib Starnes was the more aggressive fighter when he fought Nate Quarry.
> 
> You're a Machida fan, I get it but there's no point in sticking up for him when he clearly lost.


By "debatable", I mean it's very close and could go either way based on how you judge the fight. Octagon control and Grappling both can be used against/for each figher in the first 3, easily stuff takedowns vs sloppy takedowns, pushing a pace for an aggressive fighter against a counter fight who tries to get you to chace him, these are all things that are debatable as to who would get the points, as they are BOTH doing what they intend to do.

The strikes to the head are looking to finish. Your opinion of it is that he wasn't trying to finish, that's fine, you hold on to that opinion while you try to convince me that kicks to the leg > punches to the head.



OliverTwist said:


> Dude we were talking about the first round. I think most people would agree about the 4th and 5th being Shoguns. I'm not even going to try and argue for the 2nd are 3rd. And yes, I am saying the punches Lyoto threw in the first round missed.
> 
> But, *were going in circles here lol*, I keep telling you that Machida doesn't land any punches in the first round. Infact, Shogun lands two powerful hooks. Me and Soojooko both agree to this, even though we scored the fights differently. If you can *tell me the times in the first round where Machida lands a punch* I'm more than willing to change my view of the fight. If not, then sorry, I don't see the point of us continuing to say they do land, they don't land, they do land forever.
> 
> I was merely responding to what you said earlier in the thread on page 3:
> 
> 
> I'm saying, and I hope you will atleast go rewatch the first round, *Machida does not land any punches in the first round*. I'm not talking about damage or how clean they landed, they do not land at all.
> 
> Going by your own post, Shogun should have been awarded the first round as he scored more strikes, more head strikes, more power strikes, showed aggression and had octagon control in the first round.
> 
> You cannot claim that the judges shouldn't be held responsible for making a mess of things.


We are going in circles, this debate will go in circles time and time and time and time again, it's actually really frustrating and I'm not sure why I again jumped into a debate about this where no one will change their opinion.

I'm not going to sit through a round and find the times when he hits Shogun in the head, as I'm really not that dedicated after the 20th time debating this subject. Just because you asked, I watched it up utnil the first counter to the head comes into play, then stopped as I'm not going to sit here and count down every punch on a fight I've seen 10 times already. 3:48 into the round Machida misses a left and lands a right. I had to watch 2-3 times, and still a bit confused about as to how much it laned, looks glancing, but that is the first time a punch "connected". Now, if I have to watch that 2-3 times to clearly see whether it hit clean or not, the judges, live, in a split second decision very would could have seen that hit not only glacning, but clear.

Just an FYI, I'm not going to keep doing this debate, it's been 3-4 days and it's getting really old.


----------



## WouldLuv2FightU

wakeboy said:


> Strong words, it's okay to have an opinion and stick to it but telling people who question his opinion to go to hell is kinda childish imo.


Wait a second now. Think about what your saying. Your upset because Peoples is sounding of to the people who constantly talk shit about him and often wish horrible things to happen to him? So it's okay for all us interwebz expertz to constantly bash someone with no remorse but if tells us to go to hell it's childish?

Seriously, do people not realize how hypocritical they CONSTANTLY are? I'm so amazed at how many people can be hypocritical and not even realize it...on a daily effin basis even. Just wow. It seems like everyday I have to point out to someone how they are being hypocritical about something. :confused05:


I hardly ever agree with Cecil's judging and never when he refs. But I think he has every right to stick up for himself and his opinions and tell people who talk shit about him to go to hell. Good for him, that's called being a man. A man doesn't cry about what he can dish out but not take back. He may be wrong alot, but it's not like there's any motive for him to judge horribly. If you've ever been to a live fight you would understand. The camera angles and commentary you get while watching it on TV is 100x more accurate looking than when your there live in one single position looking through a fence. 

Trust me I know. I went to a live event once had floor seat and I still found myself watching the big screens version of the fight more than the fight right in front of me. You get to see every angle that way.


----------



## Biowza

Michael Carson said:


> By "debatable", I mean it's very close and could go either way based on how you judge the fight. Octagon control and Grappling both can be used against/for each figher in the first 3, easily stuff takedowns vs sloppy takedowns, pushing a pace for an aggressive fighter against a counter fight who tries to get you to chace him, these are all things that are debatable as to who would get the points, as they are BOTH doing what they intend to do.
> 
> The strikes to the head are looking to finish. Your opinion of it is that he wasn't trying to finish, that's fine, you hold on to that opinion while you try to convince me that kicks to the leg > punches to the head.
> 
> 
> 
> We are going in circles, this debate will go in circles time and time and time and time again, it's actually really frustrating and I'm not sure why I again jumped into a debate about this where no one will change their opinion.
> 
> I'm not going to sit through a round and find the times when he hits Shogun in the head, as I'm really not that dedicated after the 20th time debating this subject. Just because you asked, I watched it up utnil the first counter to the head comes into play, then stopped as I'm not going to sit here and count down every punch on a fight I've seen 10 times already. 3:48 into the round Machida misses a left and lands a right. I had to watch 2-3 times, and still a bit confused about as to how much it laned, looks glancing, but that is the first time a punch "connected". Now, if I have to watch that 2-3 times to clearly see whether it hit clean or not, the judges, live, in a split second decision very would could have seen that hit not only glacning, but clear.
> 
> Just an FYI, I'm not going to keep doing this debate, it's been 3-4 days and it's getting really old.





coldcall420 said:


> Fact is you believe Shogun won, Lyoto clearly was the aggressor in the 1st RD in mention. He was throein knee's and pressing the action and Rua was adjusting to that.
> 
> You should just agree to disagree since you think Shogun won and MC thinks Machida won, which he did, cuz if you just look at the first three rounds Lyoto won them......Period.


I love how people who say Shogun won all come up with facts and even give specific times of certain strikes to reference. 

Whereas people with Machida as their sig and avatar, and such just say "Nope, you're wrong, that's your opinion man, you're wrong, nope I'm not listening, you're wrong."

Carson, you're not coming up with ANYTHING to counter what I'm saying you just saying "Some people think differently" and somehow that proves me wrong? I asked specifically which punches were thrown with conviction to end the fight. All you've come up with is some glancing shot, which I can't even find.


----------



## alizio

the smirky way in which they word things leaves alot to be desired, esp for Mods... the guy asks what time of the round did these counters appear, i will look it up and maybe change my opinion... Machida Mod "oh they hit like crazy alright, and that counts more"..... again, where are these counters?? Machida Mod "thats how it is, its clear the 1st three rounds are Machida".... lol its kinda ridic, we get it, nothing will sway you, you wont use specific examples other then "watch the tape".... we are going nowhere, lets call it a draw (wait, lets keep in tune with the theme here and give you guys victory). There, you are a paper fraud forum champ like Machida is the paper, fraud UFC LHW Champ  i will NEVER (seriously) argue in one of these Machida threads again about the decisions, its useless, they are so lazy in the defense of Machidas win, i havent even heard of them disputing the fightmetric numbers, they just say yea, but headshots are worth more so machida won.... but wait, the fightmetic has Shogun hitting more headshots too?? Do you dispute the fight metric?? If so, actually go back, and give us the blow for blow, where are these 1st round punches?? they dont exist... that all folks, no more machida-shogun talk for me, agree to disagree


----------



## shatterproof

Fact: Machida won the fight. These 'Facts' to the contrary? They do not exist. The word you are looking for is 'opinions'.


----------



## Biowza

Contrary to popular belief, opinions can be wrong.


----------



## shatterproof

Biowza said:


> Contrary to popular belief, opinions can be wrong.


I agree completely. 

Glad you've come around.


----------



## alizio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9p1wNJnXWA

only difference is, Ninja not Shogun and as much as ppl hate on Quinton, he manned up big time, he knows he lost, he doesnt talk all this ancient warrior honor crap then turn around with ridic i won 4 rounds and my boy says 5 stuff.... WAR Rampage!!


----------



## elardo

he's a turd.


----------



## Ruckus

They need a lot of help in the MW division. I say let all the contenders, a loose usage of the term in this case, fight it out while Silva heals up and/or embarrasses yet another LHW. Hendo/Marquardt, Vitor/Maia, Quarry/Cote and Akiyama/Sonnen. As far as GSP is concerned I don't see him moving up for two reasons, 1- There are still fighters in the WW division who want to fight him and 2- He will lose.


----------



## yynnaot

i say pit marquart with belfort and have anderson move up to 205 and fight rashad at ... let thiago silva duke it out with forrest... i know its quite a bit of juggling but I would like to see all 3 of those fights


----------



## Couchwarrior

If the guy doesn't want the title shot then give it to somebody who wants it. Marquardt is probably the most deserving, and we haven't _really_ seen him fight Anderson yet since he messed up so early the last time and got finished right at the beginning.


----------



## OliverTwist

Michael Carson said:


> We are going in circles, this debate will go in circles time and time and time and time again, it's actually really frustrating and I'm not sure why I again jumped into a debate about this where no one will change their opinion.
> 
> I'm not going to sit through a round and find the times when he hits Shogun in the head, as I'm really not that dedicated after the 20th time debating this subject. Just because you asked, I watched it up utnil the first counter to the head comes into play, then stopped as I'm not going to sit here and count down every punch on a fight I've seen 10 times already. 3:48 into the round Machida misses a left and lands a right. I had to watch 2-3 times, and still a bit confused about as to how much it laned, looks glancing, but that is the first time a punch "connected". Now, if I have to watch that 2-3 times to clearly see whether it hit clean or not, the judges, live, in a split second decision very would could have seen that hit not only glacning, but clear.
> 
> Just an FYI, I'm not going to keep doing this debate, it's been 3-4 days and it's getting really old.


Thats fine if you don't want to debate, I don't want to either lol, its a waste of time for me. Its just that people are so adamant that Machida won the first three rounds when I think thats clearly not the case.

I'm sitting there watching the fight in a bar and notice Machida's punches are missing or are being blocked. I come onto this site and people are saying Machida countered everyone of Shoguns kicks with punches to the head. I figure I didn't see them because I was too busy eating wings and drinking so I rewatch the fight and I see the dam same thing, that Machida's punches are way off mark or are missing. Hell, my first post on this site was about the fact that Machida's punches aren't landing.

And by the way, that punch your talking about at 3:48, I don't even see it. At 3:48 there both in a clinch, and if your talking about 1:12, there both standing around for ten seconds until Shogun lands a leg kick while blocking Machida's punch. 

I mean really you can't be serious about noone changing their opinion, when you can't even show me a punch that Machida lands, except for one you think he lands almost 4 minutes into the first round and your not even sure that it lands at all either. I don't really care about changing your opinion, I figure most people are entrenched their views for whatever reason, but seriously, don't tell me that Machida lands more punches than Shogun lol.

My opinion is that the judges messed up big time and gave Machida points for punches he never landed. Shogun should have won the fight.


----------



## name goes here

alizio said:


> the only thing more cowardly then trying to back out of a championship fight is ppl that neg rep u and the message they leave things so vulgar i wont repeat it here, yet wont say anything in public.... grown men acting like little girls, and saying the worst things... wow, it's actually one of the most pathetic things i can think of, gratz and gratz to Vitor for being scared of Anderson, i really cant blame you bud, you will get tore up from the floor up if you take this fight.


Hint, no one likes you, find a new forum.:bye02:

----

Belfort is talking like he's scared Anderson is going to beat him up in his home:thumb02:


----------



## HitOrGetHit

yynnaot said:


> i say pit marquart with belfort and have anderson move up to 205 and fight rashad at ... let thiago silva duke it out with forrest... i know its quite a bit of juggling but I would like to see all 3 of those fights


i would love to see marquardt and belfort as well:thumbsup:


----------



## coldcall420

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> Wait a second now. Think about what your saying. Your upset because Peoples is sounding of to the people who constantly talk shit about him and often wish horrible things to happen to him? So it's okay for all us interwebz expertz to constantly bash someone with no remorse but if tells us to go to hell it's childish?
> 
> Seriously, do people not realize how hypocritical they CONSTANTLY are? I'm so amazed at how many people can be hypocritical and not even realize it...on a daily effin basis even. Just wow. It seems like everyday I have to point out to someone how they are being hypocritical about something. :confused05:
> 
> 
> I hardly ever agree with Cecil's judging and never when he refs. But I think he has every right to stick up for himself and his opinions and tell people who talk shit about him to go to hell. Good for him, that's called being a man. A man doesn't cry about what he can dish out but not take back. He may be wrong alot, but it's not like there's any motive for him to judge horribly. If you've ever been to a live fight you would understand. The camera angles and commentary you get while watching it on TV is 100x more accurate looking than when your there live in one single position looking through a fence.
> 
> Trust me I know. I went to a live event once had floor seat and I still found myself watching the big screens version of the fight more than the fight right in front of me. You get to see every angle that way.


 
Agreed ^^^THIS^^



Biowza said:


> I love how people who say Shogun won all come up with facts and even give specific times of certain strikes to reference.
> 
> *Whereas people with Machida as their sig and avatar, and such just say "Nope, you're wrong, that's your opinion man, you're wrong, nope I'm not listening, you're wrong."*
> 
> Carson, you're not coming up with ANYTHING to counter what I'm saying you just saying "Some people think differently" and somehow that proves me wrong? I asked specifically which punches were thrown with conviction to end the fight. All you've come up with is some glancing shot, which I can't even find.


The bold is directed at myself so allow me to respond. Some people just arent worth arguning or debating with. MC has been handling it fine, I dont care what you think in terms of who won the fight, the eyes in my head work fine and when I look and see the first three rounds of the fight Lyoto won them. PERIOD. Secondly, if I were to post all the 1st three rounds you would simply try to disect them and argue about it. I have learned its alot easier to just state my opinion and not get wrapped up in an ongoing argument that will not end. 

I dont need to justify the win.....he won. I can break down only the first 3 rounds if I wanted to, but why take the time to just have someone argue.....

Makes sense...heh:thumbsup:

FTR, for the most part i would be typing the same as MC so, iI figure he can do it....."People think differently" may refer to how the refs percieve things....





shatterproof said:


> Fact: Machida won the fight. These 'Facts' to the contrary? They do not exist. The word you are looking for is 'opinions'.


Thank you shatter.....common sense seems hard to come by sometimes....



shatterproof said:


> I agree completely.
> 
> 
> 
> Glad you've come around.


LOL.....:thumbsup:


----------



## HitOrGetHit

coldcall420 said:


> *I dont need to justify the win.....he won.* I can break down only the first 3 rounds if I wanted to, but why take the time to just have someone argue.....


I wish people would listen to this. the people saying machida won are stating actual fact. he did win. he has the belt. he is undefeated. shogun has another loss. shogun is not the champion. machida defended his title. shogun does not have a title.

anything i missed?


----------



## Nomale

HitOrGetHit said:


> I wish people would listen to this. the people saying machida won are stating actual fact. he did win. he has the belt. he is undefeated. shogun has another loss. shogun is not the champion. machida defended his title. shogun does not have a title.
> 
> anything i missed?


Sometimes a decision is very disputable and even wrong. Don't you think it's important that the score card reflects the actual fight correctly?


----------



## tecnotut

Michael Carson said:


> Actually, leg kicks are fine, they do score points, but they do not score as much points as hits to the head, especially when the hits to the head are mostly counters, thus giving an idea to the judges that Machida was countering Shogun's attacks.
> 
> Head strikes >> body/leg strikes, and Machida did them most of the time in a counter, thus "countering" Shogun's kicks, which in the judges eyes probably also made them lean towards Machida.
> 
> It's always been that way, always, it's not anything new.


But isn't it the case Griffin's leg kicks were the reason the judges gave it to Forrest and not Rampage?


----------



## shatterproof

Nomale said:


> Sometimes a decision is very disputable and even wrong. Don't you think it's important that the score card reflects the actual fight correctly?


i believe Hit's point was much like CC's, my own and MC's... that as a matter of 'fact' Machida did win, so demanding facts to back up that claim is loopy since the evidence is clear by way of the decision/scorecards. I get that you are asking them to break it down for you all over but yeah, it's been done.

Everyone is going to have an opinion on what they watched but clearly those taking our stance do believe that the fight was scored correct already and so an answer to this question would be redundant to say the least.

ultimately, this debate has been had ad nauseam and could/should be summed up with 'not everyone agrees, that's life'.


----------



## tecnotut

shatterproof said:


> ultimately, this debate has been had ad nauseam and could/should be summed up with 'not everyone agrees, that's life'.


If not everyone agrees who won, then how's it a fact that Machida should've won? We all know who was declared the winner, but the question is who should've been declared the winner. Most people agree Rua should've been declared the winner.


----------



## shatterproof

tecnotut said:


> If not everyone agrees who won, then how's it a fact that Machida should've won? We all know who was declared the winner, but the question is who should've been declared the winner. Most people agree Rua should've been declared the winner.


Like i said, everyone has an opinion. The 'fact' is that Machida won. that was the thesis of the post... not the 'fact of your opinion' which is ultimately still just an opinion. 

Per the opinion: That is exactly what the line you took from my aforementioned post specifically addresses, that the debate over opinions is exhausted. To be sure, i'm fairly unmotivated to dig through my post history but if you really want my opinion on this then you certain can because i, like others -- yourself included no doubt -- have posted the thesis and details of my thoughts on this topic a number of times in as many threads.


----------



## tecnotut

shatterproof said:


> Like i said, everyone has an opinion. The 'fact' is that Machida won. that was the point i was addressing in the post... not the 'fact of your opinion' which is ultimately still just an opinion.
> 
> Per the opinion: That is exactly what my aforementioned quote specifically addresses as well, that the debate over opinions is exhausted. To be sure, i'm fairly unmotivated to dig through my post history but if you really want my opinion on this then you certain can because i, like others -- yourself included no doubt -- have posted the thesis and details of my thoughts on this topic a number of times in as many threads.



It is a fact that Machida was declared the winner. But just because it's a fact that Machida was declared the winner, it doesn't follow that it is a fact that Machida _should have_ been declared the winner. The only thing we care about is whether Machida should have been delcared the winner. If he should not have been declared the winner, then the judges' decisions were wither faulty or biased. If there's error in the judge's decision, then I can easily see why most people refuse to accept Machida as the winner.


----------



## Soojooko

Biowza said:


> I love how people who say Shogun won all come up with facts and even give specific times of certain strikes to reference.


I say Machida won personally. Heres why. I value head and body strikes higher than kicks and knees to the legs. Knees to leg from the clinch are almost worthless. With that in mind, to my reckoning:

Just looking at the first round, Shogun connected with 14 vs Machidas 10. 2 were punches to the head, 2 knees and 1 kick to the body. 4 kicks to the leg and 5 knees to the legs in the clinch.

Machida connected with zero headshots but 7 knees and kicks to the body with 3 kicks to the legs. No knees in the clinch.

Using this logic, it's not difficult to see how the judges could award Lyoto this very tight round. His weakest of the first 3 if you ask me. Applying the above to the next 2 rounds also has Lyoto the winner for me. The quality of his strikes overall can be seen as better. His stuffing of Rua takedowns would have also looked good.

I think Machida won and feel my reasoning is sound. 

However, anybody who thinks Rua won based on his striking output also has sound reasoning. It was close.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

hmmmmm i think that machida won because.....he is still champion! :thumb02:

cant argue with fact!


----------



## shatterproof

tecnotut said:


> It is a fact that Machida was declared the winner. But just because it's a fact that Machida was declared the winner, it doesn't follow that it is a fact that Machida _should have_ been declared the winner. The only thing we care about is whether Machida should have been delcared the winner. If he should not have been declared the winner, then the judges' decisions were wither faulty or biased. If there's error in the judge's decision, then I can easily see why most people refuse to accept Machida as the winner.



If you go back and read the last page, where i re-entered this thread, you'll see that you're making an argument where one does not exist. The entirety of my point was:



> Fact: Machida won the fight. These 'Facts' to the contrary? They do not exist. The word you are looking for is 'opinions'.


It is simply a point of phonetics... Fact are definitive, not editorialized or opinionated. Your opinion is that Shogun deserved to win. I understand that and disagree per my many previous posts on the topic which are found in my post history. :thumb02:


----------



## coldcall420

Nomale said:


> Sometimes a decision is very disputable and even wrong. Don't you think it's important that the score card reflects the actual fight correctly?


 
They did...




Soojooko said:


> I say Machida won personally. Heres why. I value head and body strikes higher than kicks and knees to the legs. Knees to leg from the clinch are almost worthless. With that in mind, to my reckoning:
> 
> Just looking at the first round, Shogun connected with 14 vs Machidas 10. 2 were punches to the head, 2 knees and 1 kick to the body. 4 kicks to the leg and 5 knees to the legs in the clinch.
> 
> Machida connected with zero headshots but 7 knees and kicks to the body with 3 kicks to the legs. No knees in the clinch.
> 
> Using this logic, it's not difficult to see how the judges could award Lyoto this very tight round. His weakest of the first 3 if you ask me. Applying the above to the next 2 rounds also has Lyoto the winner for me. The quality of his strikes overall can be seen as better. His stuffing of Rua takedowns would have also looked good.
> 
> I think Machida won and feel my reasoning is sound.
> 
> However, anybody who thinks Rua won based on his striking output also has sound reasoning. It was close.


 

^^^This^^^


----------



## Nomale

shatterproof said:


> It is simply a point of phonetics... Fact are definitive, not editorialized or opinionated. Your opinion is that Shogun deserved to win. I understand that and disagree per my many previous posts on the topic which are found in my post history. :thumb02:


Not to get into the philosophy about what constitutes a fact, but I think he's refering to the facts about the fight (number of strikes etc). Those are not merely opinions. But since there is room for interpretation about the amount damage done, the rules and such, different opinions emerge. 

Anyway, debate is interesting because your, or the other side's, reason which you base your opinion on, may through scrutiny show to be not so reasonable after all.



coldcall420 said:


> They did...


I was just pointing out that there are other important stuff about a desicion than just who was declared the winner.

(Sorry, double post.)


----------



## swpthleg

Edit button, baby, edit button.


----------



## OliverTwist

Soojooko said:


> I say Machida won personally. Heres why. I value head and body strikes higher than kicks and knees to the legs. Knees to leg from the clinch are almost worthless. With that in mind, to my reckoning:
> 
> Just looking at the first round, Shogun connected with 14 vs Machidas 10. 2 were punches to the head, 2 knees and 1 kick to the body. 4 kicks to the leg and 5 knees to the legs in the clinch.
> 
> Machida connected with zero headshots but 7 knees and kicks to the body with 3 kicks to the legs. No knees in the clinch.
> 
> Using this logic, it's not difficult to see how the judges could award Lyoto this very tight round. His weakest of the first 3 if you ask me. Applying the above to the next 2 rounds also has Lyoto the winner for me. The quality of his strikes overall can be seen as better. His stuffing of Rua takedowns would have also looked good.
> 
> I think Machida won and feel my reasoning is sound.
> 
> However, anybody who thinks Rua won based on his striking output also has sound reasoning. It was close.


God I gotta stop this lol but yesterday you changed your mind to saying Rua won and now your back to saying Machida won so I gotta ask, how can you give the first round to Machida?

This is how I got the first round:
Shogun lands 2 solid punches, 4 leg kicks, 1 kick to the body, 6 knees to the thigh and 2 knees to the body.

Machida lands 0 punches, 1 leg kick, 2 kicks to the body, 0 knees to the thigh and 2 knees to the body. 

About those 4 knees Machida lands at the start of the round, it looks as if Shogun blocked at least 3 of them, clearly his elbows are being struck. The *knees never rise past Shoguns hip* so they can't possibly have hit Shogun in the body. Even if you give it to him, Shogun still out strikes him this round by quite a large margin.

Another thing, the quality of Machida's leg kicks aren't as good as Shoguns, as Machida used them to set up his punch-kick combo where hes looking to trip or throw the person of balance with the kick, whereas Shoguns kicks have more meat on them. Machida's usually getting kicked and lands with a soft kick.


----------



## Soojooko

OliverTwist said:


> God I gotta stop this lol but yesterday you changed your mind to saying Rua won and now your back to saying Machida won so I gotta ask, how can you give the first round to Machida?
> 
> This is how I got the first round:
> Shogun lands 2 solid punches, 4 leg kicks, 1 kick to the body, 6 knees to the thigh and 2 knees to the body.
> 
> Machida lands 0 punches, 1 leg kick, 2 kicks to the body, 0 knees to the thigh and 2 knees to the body.
> 
> About those 4 knees Machida lands at the start of the round, it looks as if Shogun blocked at least 3 of them, clearly his elbows are being struck. The *knees never rise past Shoguns hip* so they can't possibly have hit Shogun in the body. Even if you give it to him, Shogun still out strikes him this round by quite a large margin.
> 
> Another thing, the quality of Machida's leg kicks aren't as good as Shoguns, as Machida used them to set up his punch-kick combo where hes looking to trip or throw the person of balance with the kick, whereas Shoguns kicks have more meat on them. Machida's usually getting kicked and lands with a soft kick.


Dude, yesterday I said the evidence did point to a narrow Shogun victory, but admitted I still felt Machida won on the basis of what I saw and how impressive I found it. I also admitted it was a little unreasonable!

I'm trying to point out how it could have gone either way and yet it's like people want to make me admit it wasn't close. It was close. I stated why it could be "seen" as close. Not facts. Just some understanding regards two points of view.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

Quite frankly, I'm beginning to hate both fighters.


----------



## OliverTwist

Sorry man, didn't mean to come off sounding so harsh lol, I think I misread your post. I thought you gave the fight to Shogun when you wrote your head says Shogun won and I think I stopped reading there lol, didn't read the part where you say your heart tells you Machida did. Hope everythings cool :thumb02:

But I still don't see how anyone can give Machida the first round lol, its such a blowout on Shoguns part its not even funny.


----------



## Nomale

Sicilian_Esq said:


> Quite frankly, I'm beginning to hate both fighters.


No you're not... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL9oA1LFoMw


----------



## swpthleg

Sicilian_Esq said:


> Quite frankly, I'm beginning to hate both fighters.


We're all doing a great job of getting hyped up for the rematch, either way.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

swpthleg said:


> We're all doing a great job of getting hyped up for the rematch, either way.


thats for sure


----------



## tecnotut

Nomale said:


> No you're not...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL9oA1LFoMw


I love that!


----------



## taz1458

That guy is a piece of garbage. Simply put. I am honestly already getting tired of hearing the judges and everyone elses excuses for why Shogun didnt win. Its bullsh*t and everyone knows it.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Cecil is just one judge out of 3! He scored the fight the same way like the other guys did except one round. So my guess is, he totally understand's his job.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

BobbyCooper said:


> Cecil is just one judge out of 3! He scored the fight the same way like the other guys did except one round. So my guess is, he totally understand's his job.


EXACTLY!!!


----------



## alizio

ill agree, it shouldnt be only Cecil being singled out... they are all idiots  or if u listen to machida fans, all those judges are clearly the top authority on MMA in the world you would be a fool to even dare question the vast experience and knowledge of them... HOW DARE PPL QUESTION THEM!!


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

BobbyCooper said:


> Cecil is just one judge out of 3! He scored the fight the same way like the other guys did except one round. So my guess is, he totally understand's his job.


Quite honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the judges fill out the scorecards at the end of the fight and just give it to whomever they want.


----------



## capjo




----------



## HitOrGetHit

capjo said:


>


haha thats good!


----------



## VolcomX311

wakeboy said:


> Strong words, it's okay to have an opinion and stick to it but telling people who question his opinion to go to hell is kinda childish imo.


It's the defensive mentality of someone who's guilty of the act they're accused of, imho.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

Who the hell would want to fight Silva.
Thats like asking, "please sir, knock me the **** out and embarass me." :fight02:


----------



## marcthegame

lol vitor is scared. If after one fight u get a chance for the title u gotta be a fool to past it up.


----------



## jcal

alizio said:


> the smirky way in which they word things leaves alot to be desired, esp for Mods... the guy asks what time of the round did these counters appear, i will look it up and maybe change my opinion... Machida Mod "oh they hit like crazy alright, and that counts more"..... again, where are these counters?? Machida Mod "thats how it is, its clear the 1st three rounds are Machida".... lol its kinda ridic, we get it, nothing will sway you, you wont use specific examples other then "watch the tape".... we are going nowhere, lets call it a draw (wait, lets keep in tune with the theme here and give you guys victory). There, you are a paper fraud forum champ like Machida is the paper, fraud UFC LHW Champ  i will NEVER (seriously) argue in one of these Machida threads again about the decisions, its useless, they are so lazy in the defense of Machidas win, i havent even heard of them disputing the fightmetric numbers, they just say yea, but headshots are worth more so machida won.... but wait, the fightmetic has Shogun hitting more headshots too?? Do you dispute the fight metric?? If so, actually go back, and give us the blow for blow, where are these 1st round punches?? they dont exist... that all folks, no more machida-shogun talk for me, agree to disagree


There are no Big exchange punches from Machida, we know this and so do the mods that were debating this with. I have been on this forum for a long time_ longer than the Mods and have been practicing MMA since the early 90s, let s get to the point, these MODs that are blinded by Machida love come from Karate backgrounds and seeing that Machida is the first guy to make that style work after 17 years of MMA, they are all up and over his arse> To the point of blind immaturity. They will not concede who shoulve won ever or show gifs ever, they cant. End of true story


----------



## BobbyCooper

isn't GSP a Black Belt in Karate?

And GSP is been on top for a long time now! I know that he is more known for his Wrestling skills, but he has a pretty big Karate Background. People like to forget this


----------



## BobbyCooper

marcthegame said:


> lol vitor is scared. If after one fight u get a chance for the title u gotta be a fool to past it up.


Why? After he loses to Silva ( and let's be honest he will lose ) nobody will talk about him anymore after that, besides the fans. Now he is hyped up and it's only fair, that he wants to enjoy this time a littel bit longer. So i understand why he isn't happy with the fight at all.


----------



## poiuytre13

they should cecil people in the ring with shogun and let him brush him in the stomach and kick him in the leg and see what he feels like. ufc should actually train judge that aren't just stupid boxing judge, that have shit in there eyes. everytime I see cecil judge I think if it isn't a knock he will screw it up because unless they aren't punching each other they get no points.


----------



## swpthleg

It was kind of hard to read your post without any capitalization.


----------



## VolcomX311




----------



## Firefly

To VOLCOMX311;

Funniest thing I've seen all day, I literally threw my head back in laughter!!!


...

Anywho, I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet, (I havent read all 11 pages of posts, just skimmed through them). On the topic of who took the most damage, wasn't it Machida who had cuts, nasty bruising on his left ribs, and is currently not medically cleared to train, due to his leg bothering him?


----------



## michelangelo

I doubt that even GSP is in a "rush" to fight Anderson at this point. :wink01:



BobbyCooper said:


> He's the only one!


----------



## OliverTwist

LOL at the CSI pic.

Heres a gif of the flurry I think in the 3rd round. Didn't know where else to post it.

http://ka.rg.free.fr/000.gif


----------



## swpthleg

That picture was not just comedy gold, it was comedy platinum. Repped.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

michelangelo said:


> I doubt that even GSP is in a "rush" to fight Anderson at this point. :wink01:


haha nice. i think gsp has a better chance than anyone right now at beating anderson. doesnt mean that he will though...


----------



## HitOrGetHit

you know i am really tired of this talk...but that csi picture was insanely funny!!!


----------



## SimplyNate

lol! I love how is head is through the cage somehow.


----------



## SSD

HitOrGetHit said:


> haha nice. i think gsp has a better chance than anyone right now at beating anderson. doesnt mean that he will though...


That's what people said about Henderson and we know how that ended up.


----------



## EsaT

oh yeah you arrogant douchebag?? You don't know shit about MMA and you still keep coming up with more stuff to make people mad.Did you ever wonder why of all 3 judges you were singled out and critised the most?Well its cuz of your shityy judgement and your behaviour toward the sport

I tell you fellow mma fans this is what happens when a boxing judges score mma fights.Its sad really sure its just a mere disappointment for us at best but think for a secondbout the disappointment shogun felt.He was devastated and seeing him still being so respectful after the fight really shows his character and heart. And IMO a rematch is a really bad idea since now machida knows shoguns tactiques.Shogun had the best strategy but they robbed him from his title.
A sad day for mma
Edit:Its fairly a long and angry post for a newb  but i hope you understand me i am so mad about this disgrace.would love to hear your thoughts thank you guys for reading my wall of text ill kepp it short next time


----------



## michelangelo

And Hendo was moving DOWN from 205 while GSP would have to move up to face Anderson. And Anderson's been destroying top-flight 205 lb.ers with ridiculous ease...

Georges better bring an oil tanker with him this time instead of a bottle of vaseline. :wink01:


----------



## swpthleg

EsaT said:


> oh yeah you arrogant douchebag?? You don't know shit about MMA and you still keep coming up with more stuff to make people mad.Did you ever wonder why of all 3 judges you were singled out and critised the most?Well its cuz of your shityy judgement and your behaviour toward the sport
> 
> I tell you fellow mma fans this is what happens when a boxing judges score mma fights.Its sad really sure its just a mere disappointment for us at best but think for a secondbout the disappointment shogun felt.He was devastated and seeing him still being so respectful after the fight really shows his character and heart. And IMO a rematch is a really bad idea since now machida knows shoguns tactiques.Shogun had the best strategy but they robbed him from his title.
> A sad day for mma
> Edit:Its fairly a long and angry post for a newb  but i hope you understand me i am so mad about this disgrace.would love to hear your thoughts thank you guys for reading my wall of text ill kepp it short next time


That would be fine, thanks, but I missed the punctuation more than the wall of text bothered me TBH.

A good first effort, welcome to the forum and I hope you continue to post.


----------



## MMARocks

Put Shogun in the cage with Cecil, and Machida in the cage with Rogan.


----------



## name goes here

*Do not let Houstan Alexander back into the UFC*

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...composing-bodies-convicted-rapists-house.html

Check out the link: Co-incidence? I think not!:confused05:


----------



## mmawrestler

thats not even Houston aleksander. An btw houston is a good guy, he supports 6 kids on his own, and saved a kid locked in a truck before.


----------



## BobbyCooper

michelangelo said:


> And Hendo was moving DOWN from 205 while GSP would have to move up to face Anderson. And Anderson's been destroying top-flight 205 lb.ers with ridiculous ease...
> 
> Georges better bring an oil tanker with him this time instead of a bottle of vaseline. :wink01:


I don't think GSP is such a huge underdog in this fight! If they fight at 185 i would be dreaming about this matchup. GSP has more then a decent chance on the ground, of course he should't be standing up with silva but he knows that already. 

So yes i still wanna see this fight happening as soon as possible. I would prefer this fight to Silva vs. Belfort! But i think the biggest Problem would be Dana White. GSP and Dana get along very well, so if GSP says to Dana plz dont force me to fight silva at 185 then this fight will never happen. And i think thats the case


----------



## caveman

mmawrestler said:


> thats not even Houston aleksander. An btw houston is a good guy, he supports 6 kids on his own, and saved a kid locked in a truck before.


He use to support 6 kids , now they lay in the cornner decomposing.


----------



## BrianRClover

Soojooko said:


> hehe! Befort is like, "Fight Silva?!... damn... I just got here."
> 
> I say give it to Nate. I haven't seen any vast improvements in Hendos game since they last fount. Marquart on the other hand seems like a completely different fighter to me.
> 
> Take those two and Belfort out of the equation and the MW division is looking a bit pale. There aren't even any up and comers that I'm keen to watch. Maybe the Bisping vs Kang fight will throw up a surprise?
> 
> Dana needs to get Rumble involved.


This is perfect! Nate has most definitely improved in leaps in bounds over the last two years, so much in fact I believe the betting odds if he were to fight Henderson would be all most even, maybe very very slightly in Dan's favor based on experience alone.

On the other hand knowing Nate, he's probably not going to want to wait for Anderson to heal either. But who knows?


----------



## HitOrGetHit

SSD said:


> That's what people said about Henderson and we know how that ended up.


yeah but like i said. it doesnt mean that he will win


----------



## Negative1

> *Six decomposing bodies found in convicted rapist's house
> By DAILY MAIL REPORTER*
> Last updated at 2:37 PM on 01st November 2009
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...es-convicted-rapists-house.html#ixzz0VcX6M8Hv
> Six decomposing bodies have been found at the home of a convicted rapist who fled before police swooped to arrest him on further charges.
> Anthony Sowell was walking down the street in Cleveland, Ohio, when he was spotted and taken into custody.
> The first two bodies were found Thursday night when police went to Sowell's home to seize him on charges of felonious assault and ****.
> Sowell, who spent 15 years in jail for **** in 1989, initially denied he was the man authorities were looking for but admitted his identity as officers began fingerprinting him.
> Officers identified three bodies at Sowell's home while other remains were later also confirmed as being human.
> Post mortems on all six bodies had been performed by yesterday but no cause of death or their identities have been revealed.
> Cuyahoga County Coroner Frank Miller said two of the dead were black females and said one had died of a violent death. No race or gender was determined for the others.
> The police are now checking missing-person reports back to June 2005, when Sowell was released from prison.
> Detectives found two bodies on the third floor of his property and began checking a fresh grave dug in the basement.
> 
> House of horror: Sowell's home in Cleveland, Ohio
> The police said the bodies were in an advanced state of decomposition, suggesting they had been in the home a long time.
> As a convicted sex offender, Sowell was required to report regularly to the sheriff's office, which said he had complied.
> Neighbour Teresa Hicks, 48, said she had known the rapist since he was in high school.
> From her porch yesterday, she said: 'He was crazy. Sometimes he would just go off if he didn't have his way.'
> Darren Dunlap, 38, whose family live in the area, said Sowell was known for borrowing money and looking for scrap metal to sell.
> Police were checking crime reports to find matches for similarities to the 1989 **** or the most recent allegation against him.
> Minutes before his arrest, police chief Michael McGrath had tried to reassure parents it was safe for their children to go trick-or-treating if they took the usual precautions











:thumb02:

This guy looks like he just ate a bag of f*ck for breakfast.


----------



## CornbreadBB

Um...black guy....goatee.........yeah, that's deff Houston Alexander.

Also, that kid he got out of the saved truck? I was just keeping him there until we found his parents. ******* prick.


----------



## Biowza

Eh, slightly funny I guess

4/10

Although to be fair I only really laughed at your spelling of coincidence...


----------



## name goes here

I thought they looked similar. Sorry I can't reach the heights of posting awsomeness and contribution to the forum that the mighty Biowza has :_(



Negative1 said:


> :thumb02:












No similarity at all


----------



## Negative1

They do look alike I will say that. Except for this guys head looks like this:










and not like this, which is what Houstons head looks like;


----------



## coldcall420

*TUF Crowd: Do Rampage’s Fighters Wish They’d Been on Team Rashad?*



> _You asked and we found the answers. “Ask the TUF Crowd” gives you the chance to throw your burning questions to the cast following each episode of “The Ultimate Fighter 10.” _
> 
> _This week’s most-asked question went to coach Quinton Jackson’s entire team. Abe Wagner and Scott Junk, who fought first and seventh under Jackson’s coaching, chimed in. _
> 
> *“Rampage” clearly doesn't care about whether his guys win or lose. He cares about beating Rashad (Evans) and being on TV. My question is, how do the guys on Rampage’s team feel when he says things like “I don't quit, my guys quit,” and when he says in interviews that he doesn't care about TUF or anyone having anything to do with it. After the whole experience is over, do some of his guys wish they had ended up on Rashad's team? -- Jason*
> 
> *Abe Wagner:* I probably don’t think it’s fair for him to say that he didn’t quit, (that) his fighters quit. Having watched all the fights in person, I can tell you that nobody quit. Nobody wants to lose a fight. Everybody wants to win their fights. I thought it was kind of a self-centered thing on his part when he did say that.
> 
> As far as if I wish I was on Rashad’s team instead of Rampage’s team, the guys on Rampage’s team, a lot of them are really good friends of mine even still. I definitely made some good relationships there. As far as a coaching standpoint, and which coach would probably give you the better opportunity to win, I think the outcome of the show is pretty obvious as far as that answer. Statistically speaking, going 0-7, there’s no way that all seven of those fighters were bad. You know what I mean?
> 
> *Scott Junk:* First off, I still keep in touch with Rampage. We still talk once in a while and he was solid. We taught me some things like the “cover and roll” and how to protect my face, but it’s hard to learn so many things in that short period of time. I could teach you everything I know in two weeks, but how much are you going to retain?
> 
> As far as coaching-wise, Rampage told us from the very beginning that he’s not a coach, that he’s not a good coach, he (was) trying to show us what he knows, but he’s not a good coach and it shows. Rashad’s staff, I thought, was better than our staff, but our coaches were there. And Rampage says things without thinking sometimes, but he cares about every one of us. He took care of me and I have no complaints, I have no regrets.
> 
> Of course, when I got there I wanted to be on Greg Jackson’s team (Jackson guest-coached on Evans’ team at the start) because it’s Greg Jackson. He’s one of the best coaches in the league right now. When I got picked up by Rampage, I was like, ‘Alright, so I’ll learn from Rampage.’ And I did. I learned a couple of things and now I’m using them more as I train, so the fact that he said, “My guys give up on me,” everybody that watched my fight knows that I don’t give up, so he wasn’t talking about me. That question goes to a couple of the other guys, I think.


 
I think that Rampage will regret the way he came off on the show, regardless of editing he was a dick and selfish. Hollywood will be short and he will need Dana and at that point Dana will use him till there's nothing left and cut him.....

Funny though about the show, ya know(or maybe you dont) Kimbo is fighting in the finale against Houston Alexander then its been predetermined regardless that he will be in the UFC......

What was the point of the show, I would add that Kimbo probably got a bigger contract than whoever ends up winning the show....

Dana F***ing White.....gotta love him....


----------



## Biowza

I think it also says a lot about Rampage's "assistant" coaching staff. Guys like Tiki I think spend a lot more time working with the fighters than Rampage does. Page is a bad coach and I don't like him but some of the blame should go to his assistants as well.


----------



## coldcall420

Agreed and thats what made me respect Rashad even more he called Page and Tiki out together while he ws all alone.....

Telling Tiki he can go in the cage and get the fighter even if Rampage doesnt.


----------



## Curly

People can talk about editing and Hollywood and all that shit all they want, I understand that. I also understand that now that I've seen more of Rampage I don't like the guy. He showed a total disregard for everyone around him. He is a self centered prick. I put him in the exact same category as Matt Hughes, Rampage just tries to cover it up with humor. :thumbsdown:

I will be happy to see him come crawling back to the UFC _(like he will, mark my words)_ and get his face smashed in _(I hope)._ 

He's a fake.


----------



## RushFan

He uses the decomposing bodies to work his ground game. Sad thing is, Houston kept getting caught in submissions or mounted.


----------



## LilHeathen

Dont let him in the ufc cuz he'll **** the shit out of kimbo for sure.


----------



## name goes here

LilHeathen said:


> Dont let him in the ufc cuz he'll **** the shit out of kimbo for sure.


Both fighters will be submitted in the first:thumb02:


----------



## funkyboogalooo

In answer to the original question. Hell yeah, I know I would want to be on Rashads team. Much better class of training and back up, different league I think. Only my himble opinion of course.
Mike


----------



## Biowza

RushFan said:


> He uses the decomposing bodies to work his ground game. Sad thing is, Houston kept getting caught in submissions or mounted.


I lol'd


----------



## Mckeever

The thing that pissed me off about Rampage this season was how he didn't comfort his fighters when they had lost. He says he had his reasons, but isnt it human nature to want to support and comfort a guy you have been coaching (or trying to) who has just been beaten up in the ring? Has the man got a heart? I mean c'mon Quinton, show some compassion. Instead he felt bad and sorry about himself and just storms off. I think that says a lot about some ones character. 

He says that the editing doesn't show the great chemistry Rampage and his team mates have, but hes probably chatting out of his ass. Damn right, they wish they were on Rashads team. I actually think the best coach ive seen on the TUF series has been Bisping, he was really passionate about his team and you could see that they got along great.

I used to really like Rampage, but i have gone off him a lot during this season. I still really respect and admire his fighting style though and would love to see him smash Rashad up.


----------



## Scarecrow

I'm left wondering if Rampage's exit out of the UFC was partially sparked by how he is being viewed on the show. He has to know by now that his popularity is sinking quickly, am I wrong in thinking that maybe he is bowing out to save face somehow?


----------



## shatterproof

i think any fighter who wouldn't prefer to train with Rashad's Team Jackson stable of coaches, over Rampage -- a non-coach -- would be loopy. 

As to the many comments on Page himself... i remain a fan. He has always been a funny jackass, from when he was making fun of people on the streets of Japan (in Pride) until today. Obviously, he has snapped under the pressure of losing on TUF but frankly... most people would. The titties shit was lame but hey, every joke's not a slam dunk like 'they your kids now, raise em right' or Page and Rashad's impersonations of one another getting knocked out. Comedy gold.

The fights this season have been lame which sucks but on the other hand at least... the house isn't filled with little-men acting up and trashing the place, threatening eachother ad naseum, pissing and loading on food, and Rashad & 'Page's jokes have been pretty damn good. I usually only watch for the fights because the usual reality TV annoys me but this year has been mroe palletable outside the ring than others.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

The only reason Vitor doesn't want to fight Anderson is because he doesn't want be embarrassed. 
He, just like everyone else, knows that fighting Anderson means loosing. And he likes his teeth in his mouth.
However the idea of watching Anderson whip some more ass is always appealing.


----------



## michelangelo

No fighter who saw Forrest's last fight wants to fight Anderson right now. 

I think Randy Couture would step up to the plate to challenge Anderson at 205 however. He could hang for a round or so. Then again, maybe not.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

Yeah couture might make a round. But then his hip would break and Anderson would get the win. Yawntastically yawn worthy. There won't be any real challengers for Anderson until he gets older. This remains cemented as his era...


----------



## khoveraki

Squirrelfighter said:


> Yeah couture might make a round. But then his hip would break and Anderson would get the win. Yawntastically yawn worthy. There won't be any real challengers for Anderson until he gets older. This remains cemented as his era...





michelangelo said:


> No fighter who saw Forrest's last fight wants to fight Anderson right now.
> 
> I think Randy Couture would step up to the plate to challenge Anderson at 205 however. He could hang for a round or so. Then again, maybe not.




Funny how everyone was doubting Silva hardcore after Leites Lutter and Cote, but now that he KO'd a slow luude-induced brawler he's god again.


----------



## Bedrock

Terror Kovenant said:


> I am so sick of people not wanting to fight someone they have trained with. Your job is to fight who they tell you to fight. Get the **** over it and do your job or find a different profession.
> 
> Also, Nate doesn't deserve it. First off, hes overrated, second he doesn't stand a chance at all.


Nate does deserve it. I don't see how you think he doesn't. He's had 2 losses in the UFC, one to Anderson Silva and another to Thales Leites. He should have won the Thales fight but because of the illegal knee strike to the head and the elbow to the back of the head he lost by split decision. Since his last loss he's posted 3 consecutive knock out victories. He's improved tremendously since both his losses, he's a totally different fighter than when he lost to Silva and he very well could overcome Silva in a rematch. 

Counter argument?


----------



## vandalian

If Demian had won, I wonder if people would have said he didn't deserve a shot...


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Bedrock said:


> Nate does deserve it. I don't see how you think he doesn't. He's had 2 losses in the UFC, one to Anderson Silva and another to Thales Leites. He should have won the Thales fight but because of the illegal knee strike to the head and the elbow to the back of the head he lost by split decision. Since his last loss he's posted 3 consecutive knock out victories. He's improved tremendously since both his losses, he's a totally different fighter than when he lost to Silva and he very well could overcome Silva in a rematch.
> 
> Counter argument?


i think he deserves a shot. but dan henderson is also on a win streak. so i think it is only fair to have them fight. if they just gave it to nate, it would be like when they gave the HW shot to Carwin when him and Cain were supposed to fight for it.

This is assuming that Hendo resigns with the UFC.

So that being said, why not have Vitor go at Silva in the meantime?


----------



## capjo

dang, I hate reading a quote like that. The guy who will be fighting Silva next doesn't even want to fight him and the guy who deserves next crack at him, may be leaving the UFC.

Hope things work out and Hendo gets another shot at Silva. Personally, I think Silva has worries with fighting Hendo a second time.


----------



## CornbreadBB

*Oh HAI GUS!*

Mods, you can move to whatever you feel is the appropriate thread, but when talking about both Strikeforce and UFC, I'm kinda confused where to put it.

So I hears a lotta talk that "Fedor won't sign with the UFC because he's dodging the real opponents at HW".

IMO, it's Dana that's making this shit difficult, he knows (especially after last night) Fedor will bring in huge ratings but does he really want this dude who is soft spoken and an animal to destroy the best in his HW division? Is it so hard for Dana to juts allow Fyodor to compete in ***** competitions or is that Dana realises the true talent of Fedor and is scared that his HWs are/were subpar to some other org's fighters. I'm getting sick of people saying Fedor is ducking people, Dana, ******* get Fedor in the UFC , stop being a puss, and accept that the greatest fighter in the HW division is 1) not American, 2) not a trash talker and 3) s omebody you have talked badly about. If the UFC really had the best HWs in the world, wouldn't Dana try to solidify that fact by bringing in the best HWs in the world? Even somebody like Overeem would clearly be in the top 5, I'm sick of this bullshit about contracts and Dana not letting somebody do so and so. 

I'm sorry it hurts when you actually don't have the "best MMA fighters in the world" in your org, but let them in, test the waters, see what happens. Your top HW prospect is Brock....a ******* untalented piece of physical mastery and after that Shave Carwin...Cain Velasquez? Yeah, they're good at their respective art, but Fedor is all around ******* good at every art. He can get you with a submission while seeimingly dying or can knock you out with one punch.

Either way, all in all, Dana get Fedor into the UFC, I know he's going to maul your HWs but this is what happens in a real sport. Either way......rant done.


----------



## TERMINATOR

Dana is such a piece of shit.


----------



## Seperator88

:sarcastic07:


dude dana isn't anything like you describe him. he comes of as a greedy asshole in interviews, but i think he really wants what's best for fans. and everyone already knows he tried everything he could to sign Fedor, but he's not gonna give up half his company that he worked so hard to get where it is for one fighter. It's just the dumbest thing i've ever heard and you saying what you're saying is almost making a run for the second. This isn't a couple years ago when Dana took Chuck, his friend, to Japan and had him fight in Pride for who has the best fighters etc.. UFC is the biggest and best mma organization there is and Dana knows it, he doesnt have to prove it to anyone and he especially doesn't have to get on his knees and beg someone to join his organization.


----------



## marcthegame

CornbreadBB said:


> Mods, you can move to whatever you feel is the appropriate thread, but when talking about both Strikeforce and UFC, I'm kinda confused where to put it.
> 
> So I hears a lotta talk that "Fedor won't sign with the UFC because he's dodging the real opponents at HW".
> 
> IMO, it's Dana that's making this shit difficult, he knows (especially after last night) Fedor will bring in huge ratings but does he really want this dude who is soft spoken and an animal to destroy the best in his HW division? Is it so hard for Dana to juts allow Fyodor to compete in ***** competitions or is that Dana realises the true talent of Fedor and is scared that his HWs are/were subpar to some other org's fighters. I'm getting sick of people saying Fedor is ducking people, Dana, ******* get Fedor in the UFC , stop being a puss, and accept that the greatest fighter in the HW division is 1) not American, 2) not a trash talker and 3) s omebody you have talked badly about. If the UFC really had the best HWs in the world, wouldn't Dana try to solidify that fact by bringing in the best HWs in the world? Even somebody like Overeem would clearly be in the top 5, I'm sick of this bullshit about contracts and Dana not letting somebody do so and so.
> 
> I'm sorry it hurts when you actually don't have the "best MMA fighters in the world" in your org, but let them in, test the waters, see what happens. Your top HW prospect is Brock....a ******* untalented piece of physical mastery and after that Shave Carwin...Cain Velasquez? Yeah, they're good at their respective art, but Fedor is all around ******* good at every art. He can get you with a submission while seeimingly dying or can knock you out with one punch.
> 
> Either way, all in all, Dana get Fedor into the UFC, I know he's going to maul your HWs but this is what happens in a real sport. Either way......rant done.


finally someone who speaks the truth rep.


----------



## UrbanBounca

It has never had, and will never have, anything to do with Fedor _ducking_ anyone in the UFC. Fedor is _owned_ by M-1, and they won't allow Fedor to sign anywhere they can't copromote. Dana has brought the UFC out of the dust, and made MMA the fastest growing sport in America. We are all very aware that Dana White is greedy, but still cherishes his baby, the UFC. He's not going to jeopardize his company by copromoting with someone else, especially those crooks associated with M-1.


----------



## DropKick

How do you figure Fedor would bring huge ratings? He was on a free card on a major network and didn't even come close to the ratings that Kimbo got in his EXC debut or his TUF fight. Just sayin...


----------



## alizio

realize your soft spoken well mannered champion is owned by the russian mafia and is basically told what to do... not such a great image for the "baddest man on the planet" seems badder men own him


----------



## Toxic

UrbanBounca said:


> It has never had, and will never have, anything to do with Fedor _ducking_ anyone in the UFC. Fedor is _owned_ by M-1, and they won't allow Fedor to sign anywhere they can't copromote. Dana has brought the UFC out of the dust, and made MMA the fastest growing sport in America. We are all very aware that Dana White is greedy, but still cherishes his baby, the UFC. He's not going to jeopardize his company by copromoting with someone else, especially those crooks associated with M-1.


This and Dana gave up alot, he agreed to allow Fedor to compete in ***** (as Dana worded every F****ing night if he wanted) as well as agreeing to allow Fedor and M-1 to advertise on Fedor's clothing and banner he simple was not gonna put on a PPV as UFC/M-1 112 which is what was required.


----------



## 6toes

As far as I'm aware Dana offered to let Fedor fight in Combat ***** under their most recent contract talks. Who knows if that's true or not but I really fail to see what Dana's doing wrong here. Of course we all want Fedor in the UFC but co-promoting with M1 makes absolutely no sense for the UFC. Fedor doesn't need the UFC and the UFC doesn't need Fedor, but with contractual obligations aside I think they would be a great match.


----------



## Toxic

Why should the UFC pay every fighter on the card including Fedor and then have to share the profits and marquee with M-1 just because they "allow" Fedor to fight in the UFC? In all honesty that makes zero sense.


----------



## RushFan

People are still saying that Fedor would own the UFC HW division. LOL! 
Fedor is a great fighter no doubt but to say he would destroy guys like Lesnar, Carwin, Velasquez, Mir and Kongo is ridiculous. Fedor would give up at least 30 pounds on all these guys and would have a difficult time dealing with the wrestlers especially. 
Therefore I'm not really fussed if the UFC gets Fedor or not. It appears that Dana has made just about every reasonable attempt to secure Fedor's services but it still wasn't enough. Oh well, no biggie.
It's just a shame that who could have been regarded as the best MMA fighter ever will always have a question mark next to his name, unlike guys like BJ Penn for example, due to an inability to get fights against elite competitors.


----------



## Freelancer

RushFan said:


> People are still saying that Fedor would own the UFC HW division. LOL!
> Fedor is a great fighter no doubt but to say he would destroy guys like Lesnar, Carwin, Velasquez, Mir and Kongo is ridiculous. Fedor would give up at least 30 pounds on all these guys and would have a difficult time dealing with the wrestlers especially.
> Therefore I'm not really fussed if the UFC gets Fedor or not. It appears that Dana has made just about every reasonable attempt to secure Fedor's services but it still wasn't enough. Oh well, no biggie.
> It's just a shame that who could have been regarded as the best MMA fighter ever will always have a question mark next to his name, unlike guys like BJ Penn for example, due to an inability to get fights against elite competitors.


I think it's pretty safe to say that Fedor would demolish Kongo. He would have a hard time with Cain and Lesnar but I'm not so sure about Carwin. He hasn't proved himself against anybody worthwhile except Gonzaga. He can't be considered a more qualified opponent for Fedor than Rogers.

So all this talk about Fedor not facing the best is getting old.


----------



## Toxic

Im pretty sure Fedor could KO Velasquez, did you see how hard he hit Rogers?


----------



## swpthleg

Organizatsiya says one thing, and our American version says another, and the truth is somewhere in the middle.


----------



## Freelancer

Toxic said:


> Im pretty sure Fedor could KO Velasquez, did you see how hard he hit Rogers?


I think he could KO anyone of them easily if he caught them. None of them has really good chin. Not even Lesnar.


----------



## sillywillybubba

how do u know lesner doesnt have a good chin?


----------



## Freelancer

sillywillybubba said:


> how do u know lesner doesnt have a good chin?


Because he was rocked by Mir, and in general, because of his amateur and wrestling background, logic would say he isn't used to getting hit. If I remember correctly even Randy rocked him at one point.


----------



## UrbanBounca

sillywillybubba said:


> how do u know lesner doesnt have a good chin?


I don't know how anyone can come up with that conclusion, either. Lesnar has never been KO'd.


----------



## Mjr

Freelancer said:


> Because he was rocked by Mir, and in general, because of his amateur and wrestling background, logic would say he isn't used to getting hit. If I remember correctly even Randy rocked him at one point.


Exactly! 

Lesnar is untested, all we know thus far is that he has amazing wrestling, great ground control, average striking and hasn't beaten anyone of high merit as yet. He could have a glass jaw like Arvloski we don't ******* know yet. Anyone that is %100 certain that he would beat Fedor is being delusional.

Sure its a possibility (Brock beating Fedor), but you are just playing a scenario out in your head with a fighter that hasn't been put to the test in many departments yet. He has an extremely low number of fights, you need to learn to hold off before claiming your favorite fighter is a world beater. Did you not learn your lesson from previously hyped fighters being exposed.

PS: Good thread CB, I am surpised.


----------



## Freelancer

Mjr said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Lesnar is untested, all we know thus far is that he has amazing wrestling, great ground control, Average striking and hasn't beaten anyone of high merit as yet. He could have a glass jaw like Arvloski we don't ******* know yet. Anyone that is %100 certain that he would beat Fedor is being delusional.
> 
> Sure its a possibility, but you are just playing a scenario out in your head with a fighter that hasn't been put to the test in many departments yet. He has an extremely low number of fights, you need to learn to hold off before claiming your favorite fighter is a world beater. Did you not learn your lesson from previously hyped fighters being exposed.
> 
> PS: Good thread CB, I am surpised.


You puzzled me there for a minute. You agree or disagree with my post? Or both?:confused02:


----------



## Mjr

Freelancer said:


> You puzzled me there for a minute. You agree or disagree with my post? Or both?:confused02:


Agree! In short, people should calm down on Brock until he has been in a few battles and is actually deserving of the belt he possesses.

Edited previous post for clarification


----------



## UrbanBounca

Mjr said:


> Agree! In short, people should calm down on Brock until he has been in a few battles and is actually deserving of the belt he possesses.
> 
> Edited previous post for clarification


He smashed Herring, Couture, and Mir. How much more can you prove in that short of time?


----------



## Freelancer

UrbanBounca said:


> He smashed Herring, Couture, and Mir. How much more can you prove in that short of time?


But his chin hasn't been fully tested in those fights. That knee from Mir didn't seem that strong yet Lesnar claims he saw tweety birds after that.


----------



## marcthegame

fedor has smashed
:aa,big nog,sylvia,herring,coleman,rogers,arona,lindland,crocop. Y does his crown as the number 1 keeps being debated when he keeps smashing everyone they put infront of him.


----------



## swpthleg

marcthegame said:


> fedor has smashed
> :aa,big nog,sylvia,herring,coleman,rogers,arona,lindland,crocop. Y does his crown as the number 1 keeps being debated when he keeps smashing everyone they put infront of him.


Good question.


----------



## Mjr

UrbanBounca said:


> He smashed Herring, Couture, and Mir. How much more can you prove in that short of time?


I am not taking away from that at all, it is a good achievement and a helluva first few fights to take. The point I am trying to make is Brock hasn't faced reasonable competition yet! Randy is old, Herring is a gatekeeper at best, he is 1 - 1 with an average HW in Frank Mir. 

He is definitely a big force in the HW division, and time will tell how far he can go. But at this stage he hasn't proven he should be UFC champion.


----------



## UrbanBounca

Freelancer said:


> But his chin hasn't been fully tested in those fights. That knee from Mir didn't seem that strong yet Lesnar claims he saw tweety birds after that.


No, I agree that he hasn't been tested in every aspect of his game, but to say Lesnar isn't deserving of the belt he possesses is a bit too much.


----------



## Mjr

How so? I don't mean it in an offensive way, He just didn't have to take the hard road to get it. I don't blame Brock for accepting it but a guy with a record of 3-1 should not be given a belt. Once he has defended it a few times against respectable competition then it is no problem. But the truth is he was gifted a belt early on which has resulted in him receiving lots of undue hype from uneducated fans.


----------



## marcthegame

LOL people have been debating about lesnar since the time he started. Let just wait and see how he does against carwin before we give him all this hype.


----------



## khoveraki

I haven't been able to find solid contract terms that were offered or denied by either party. Have you guys? 

What we know for sure:

-30 million was NOT offered to Fedor for any contract. Fedor stated in an interview if that were the case, he would have signed with the UFC.

-The initial contract did not allow Fedor the Russian Event clause, which he has always had. It also did not allow participation in anything that isn't the UFC, including Combat *****.


And I never read the specific details involving co-promotion either. All I know is WAMMA and M-1 helped Strikeforce foot the bill for their Fedor vs Rogers event, and that can't be a bad thing.


----------



## marcthegame

khoveraki said:


> I haven't been able to find solid contract terms that were offered or denied by either party. Have you guys?
> 
> What we know for sure:
> 
> -30 million was NOT offered to Fedor for any contract. Fedor stated in an interview if that were the case, he would have signed with the UFC.
> 
> -The initial contract did not allow Fedor the Russian Event clause, which he has always had. It also did not allow participation in anything that isn't the UFC, including Combat *****.
> 
> 
> And I never read the specific details involving co-promotion either. All I know is WAMMA and M-1 helped Strikeforce foot the bill for their Fedor vs Rogers event, and that can't be a bad thing.


y are y bring this up there is no need to prove fedor greatest, lesnar can do what he wants but every real mma fans knows deep down for him to be the best he has to beat fedor.


----------



## UrbanBounca

Mjr said:


> How so? I don't mean it in an offensive way, He just didn't have to take the hard road to get it. I don't blame Brock for accepting it but a guy with a record of 3-1 should not be given a belt. Once he has defended it a few times against respectable competition then it is no problem. But the truth is he was gifted a belt early on which has resulted in him receiving lots of undue hype from uneducated fans.


He beat the HW champion, just as any other HW would, to receive the belt. Carwin defeated an unranked Gonzaga, and received a title shot. Is that a problem?


----------



## Mjr

UrbanBounca said:


> He beat the HW champion, just as any other HW would, to receive the belt. Carwin defeated an unranked Gonzaga, and received a title shot. Is that a problem?


Calm down buddy.

I said he had a minimal number of fights, one of which he had lost. He also jumped in front of Nog for a title shot at the time.

_Brock's Road To the Title_
Loss: Frank Mir
Win : Heath Herring
Title Shot!



> Is that a problem?


Is that you Brock?


----------



## UrbanBounca

Mjr said:


> Calm down buddy.
> 
> I said he had a minimal number of fights, one of which he had lost. He also jumped in front of Nog for a title shot at the time.
> 
> _Brock's Road To the Title_
> Loss: Frank Mir
> Win : Heath Herring
> Title Shot!
> 
> 
> 
> Is that you Brock?


_Carwin's Road to the Title_
*Win:* Gonzaga
Title Shot!

I'm fine, but I have a problem when people don't give Lesnar the same respect as someone _in the exact same situation_, simply 'cause Lesnar has a WWE background, and hasn't trained for MMA all his life, and can come in and destroy the UFC HW competition.


----------



## Mjr

Carwin has 11 wins!

I haven't disrespected Lesnar! Read back through my posts, I said I don't blame him, the point I have been trying to make is the hype and talk that he receives from guys like yourself is unwarranted when matched with his accomplishments. 

I have no problem with his background, although he should keep the crowd abuse and cage eating in the WWE, that is pretty lame.


----------



## khoveraki

marcthegame said:


> y are y bring this up there is no need to prove fedor greatest, lesnar can do what he wants but every real mma fans knows deep down for him to be the best he has to beat fedor.


This was to the original post, I'm just saying that discussing why or why not Fedor didn't go to the UFC is silly right now.


All I know is Rogers, Werdum, and Overeem are 100% legit and I think Rogers and Overeem could clear out the UFC's division, and I think Werdum could definitely beat Mir at least.


----------



## DropKick

khoveraki said:


> This was to the original post, I'm just saying that discussing why or why not Fedor didn't go to the UFC is silly right now.
> 
> 
> All I know is Rogers, Werdum, and Overeem are 100% legit and I think Rogers and Overeem could clear out the UFC's division, and I think Werdum could definitely beat Mir at least.


Wow. Rogers is probably the first guy in history to get brutally KO'd, be one dimensional and now is thought to be able to clear out entire divisions. I don't think you even believe that. We get it, Rogers fought Fedor. He got KO'd, it doesn't make him the next great fighter.


----------



## UrbanBounca

khoveraki said:


> This was to the original post, I'm just saying that discussing why or why not Fedor didn't go to the UFC is silly right now.
> 
> 
> All I know is Rogers, Werdum, and Overeem are 100% legit and I think Rogers and Overeem could clear out the UFC's division, and I think Werdum could definitely beat Mir at least.


Wow! :confused02:


----------



## khoveraki

DropKick said:


> Wow. Rogers is probably the first guy in history to get brutally KO'd, be one dimensional and now is thought to be able to clear out entire divisions. I don't think you even believe that. We get it, Rogers fought Fedor. He got KO'd, it doesn't make him the next great fighter.



I guess your eyes were closed when Rogers broke Fedor's nose and became one of the first people EVER to escape more than one armbar attempt?

He looks like Mr. T, he's not a threat. His 20 second KO over a former UFC HW champ was a fluke. He's got no groundgame. He's in some noname league that sucks. Man the UFC rules.

Oh wait, a world ***** and judo champ who's got some of the best groundgame in the world couldn't submit him. I guess that was a fluke too. Rogers is definitely one dimensional. Just like Lidell. Man Lidell sucked, what a one dimensional loser.

Rogers looked better in his defeat to Fedor than Carwin looked in his win to Gonzaga. And Carwin's the #1 contender.

Herring was able to stand up quite a few times from Lesnar's mount. You don't think Rogers could? Rogers also has the same reach as Lesnar, except with KO power in both hands. 

Overeem defeated BADR HARI AND PETER AERTS, and looked amazing against Remy Bonjaski. His standup is probably the best in the division. He also has a guillotine from hell that he uses effectively against wrestlers who go for the basic double leg (lesnar's #1 take down). He's got mountains of experience over almost everyone in the HW division.

Werdum has way better grappling credentials and a nearly identical record to Mir. But Mir's in the UFC so I guess he'd win. :sarcastic12:


----------



## vandalian

Rogers looked better in that loss than in several of his wins.


----------



## DropKick

khoveraki said:


> I guess your eyes were closed when Rogers broke Fedor's nose and became one of the first people EVER to escape more than one armbar attempt?
> 
> He looks like Mr. T, he's not a threat. His 20 second KO over a former UFC HW champ was a fluke. He's got no groundgame. He's in some noname league that sucks. Man the UFC rules.
> 
> Oh wait, a world ***** and judo champ who's got some of the best groundgame in the world couldn't submit him. I guess that was a fluke too. Rogers is definitely one dimensional. Just like Lidell. Man Lidell sucked, what a one dimensional loser.
> 
> Rogers looked better in his defeat to Fedor than Carwin looked in his win to Gonzaga. And Carwin's the #1 contender.
> 
> Herring was able to stand up quite a few times from Lesnar's mount. You don't think Rogers could? Rogers also has the same reach as Lesnar, except with KO power in both hands.
> 
> Overeem defeated BADR HARI AND PETER AERTS, and looked amazing against Remy Bonjaski. His standup is probably the best in the division. He also has a guillotine from hell that he uses effectively against wrestlers who go for the basic double leg (lesnar's #1 take down). He's got mountains of experience over almost everyone in the HW division.
> 
> Werdum has way better grappling credentials and a nearly identical record to Mir. But Mir's in the UFC so I guess he'd win. :sarcastic12:


You're talking about a guy who just got KO'd like he won the fight. Seriously man, get a hold of yourself.


----------



## Mjr

DropKick said:


> You're talking about a guy who just got KO'd like he won the fight. Seriously man, get a hold of yourself.


He did lose to arguably the best p4p fighter worldwide.


----------



## ESPADA9

UrbanBounca said:


> He smashed Herring, Couture, and Mir. How much more can you prove in that short of time?


All 3 are past their prime, SLOW immoble grapples who are not known for anything resembling dynamic power striking.

Brock is crazy quick going FORWARD but I've yet to see him move lateraly, he reminds me of a bull who charges forward but cant circle or create angles.

And why would he be expected to, his background is wrestling, he is still a rookie to MMA.

He still presents a real puzzle to any fighter because once he gets his hands on you chances are you're going for a ride.

Herring, Couture and Mir were ideal matches for Brocks style.


----------



## No_Mercy

This has been covered initially when the bidding war began. It has everything to do with Finkelstein from M-1. Why would the UFC who worked tooth and nail from the brink of bankruptcy allow a company 50% of their profits or title rights. Coca Cola doesn't co-promote with Pepsi, Microsoft with Apple or McDonalds with Burger King. Is M-1a management team or promotional company. They need to divide the line. Business and politics. There's a flaw to that though. If Fedor loses then they lose their golden egg. Even Aleksander stated this they have their own agendas. 

Second is loyalty. Fedor probably doesn't care about compensation at this point as he's spiritual and believes in 100% of his management team.

So the answer lies on Finkelstein or if they can somehow get in touch with Putin to put pressure on em...hahhah. As for the mob everybody knows they have had a hand in all facets of business in the old USSR before and especially after it crumbled. Seeing Fedor knows Putin personally I HIGHLY doubt they're manipulating him in any way especially because he's considered an idol in Russia and with his ties with the top politician. 

Look closely at 3:23 (They don't look like mobsters to me. More like top level ex-KGB.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOzk...4490E4643&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=2 

Conclusion, the UFC needs to keep all their fighters including Dan Henderson so they don't bolster their competitors' roster. Go for long term stranglehold. As in five years. Strikeforce or any other organization will not be able to put on strong enough cards. The UFC puts on numerous quality shows a year. 

Sadly we may or may not see the matchup(s) we all want to see due to bureaucracy.


----------



## alizio

khoveraki said:


> I guess your eyes were closed when Rogers broke Fedor's nose and became one of the first people EVER to escape more than one armbar attempt?
> 
> He looks like Mr. T, he's not a threat. His 20 second KO over a former UFC HW champ was a fluke. He's got no groundgame. He's in some noname league that sucks. Man the UFC rules.
> 
> Oh wait, a world ***** and judo champ who's got some of the best groundgame in the world couldn't submit him. I guess that was a fluke too. Rogers is definitely one dimensional. Just like Lidell. Man Lidell sucked, what a one dimensional loser.
> 
> Rogers looked better in his defeat to Fedor than Carwin looked in his win to Gonzaga. And Carwin's the #1 contender.
> 
> Herring was able to stand up quite a few times from Lesnar's mount. You don't think Rogers could? Rogers also has the same reach as Lesnar, except with KO power in both hands.
> 
> Overeem defeated BADR HARI AND PETER AERTS, and looked amazing against Remy Bonjaski. His standup is probably the best in the division. He also has a guillotine from hell that he uses effectively against wrestlers who go for the basic double leg (lesnar's #1 take down). He's got mountains of experience over almost everyone in the HW division.
> 
> Werdum has way better grappling credentials and a nearly identical record to Mir. But Mir's in the UFC so I guess he'd win. :sarcastic12:


 pretty funny, 1st man to survive 2 armbar attempts in Fedor history (oh im sure you made that up, but funny way to discredit yourself). Rogers clearing out the UFC HW division... lol i wont argue with you, there is no need.


----------



## alizio

Mjr said:


> He did lose to arguably the best p4p fighter worldwide.


 by this logic if i get stomped on by Anderson Silva im somehow a great figther too


----------



## Biowza

God damn it Fedor nuthuggers are annoying.


----------



## AceFranklin88

Biowza said:


> God damn it Fedor nuthuggers are annoying.


Yea...and? So are Brock nuthuggers. Who gives a shit.


----------



## ESPADA9

AceFranklin88 said:


> Yea...and? So are Brock nuthuggers. Who gives a shit.


Well, Brock IS 4 -1 so they have a compelling argument.


----------



## AceFranklin88

ESPADA9 said:


> Well, Brock IS 4 -1 so they have a compelling argument.


Oh yea you have a point. 

Either way, coming into a thread like this with Brock AND Fedor nuthuggers and calling the Fedor nuthuggers annoying is pretty annoying. Can you get any more biased?


----------



## Mjr

alizio said:


> by this logic if i get stomped on by Anderson Silva im somehow a great figther too


Your posts just degenerate into meaningless nothing.

By this logic if you put on a good showing against Anderson Silva and did some damage before losing then yes you would be considered a great fighter, this is the point the above poster was trying to make.


----------



## Biowza

AceFranklin88 said:


> Yea...and? So are Brock nuthuggers. Who gives a shit.


Well out of the two, I find that the Brock "nuthuggers" seem to talk a hell of a lot more sense. 

Brock "nuthuggers" are all like "Brock might win against Fedor because Fedor is human an-"

Only to be cut off mid sentence by "Fedor is fedor is fedor is fedor, wwe is fake brock has no skill, fedor dominating a TOP QUALITY opponent in Rogers who was UNDEFEATED brock takes roids and has no skill HERP DERP"


----------



## Mjr

Biowza said:


> Well out of the two, I find that the Brock "nuthuggers" seem to talk a hell of a lot more sense.
> 
> Brock "nuthuggers" are all like "Brock might win against Fedor because Fedor is human an-"
> 
> Only to be cut off mid sentence by "Fedor is fedor is fedor is fedor, wwe is fake brock has no skill, fedor dominating a TOP QUALITY opponent in Rogers who was UNDEFEATED brock takes roids and has no skill HERP DERP"


I think most people can discuss it rationally either way and you are being a bit over the top here. Its only the small minority that carry on as mentioned above.

Edit : I have to disagree with you completely Biowza, it's a 50 50 split for idiots, You can't just push it all to one side, "most" of us discuss it in a respectable manner.


----------



## TERMINATOR

Biowza said:


> Well out of the two, I find that the Brock "nuthuggers" seem to talk a hell of a lot more sense.
> 
> Brock "nuthuggers" are all like "Brock might win against Fedor because Fedor is human an-"
> 
> Only to be cut off mid sentence by "Fedor is fedor is fedor is fedor, wwe is fake brock has no skill, fedor dominating a TOP QUALITY opponent in Rogers who was UNDEFEATED brock takes roids and has no skill HERP DERP"


I hear ya biowza i can see your point.


Off record I got a bad a case of the Herp Derp in my britches once. Itched for days


----------



## Liddellianenko

i wonder if people literally have a cookie cutter lying around to make more of this thread every few weeks.


----------



## T.Bone

The reason Fedor's not fighting in the UFC is because of Fedor and Fedor's managment. 

Fedor doesn't care where he's fighting as long as he's getting paid and M1 only care about co-promoting. Never gonna happen.


----------



## fakANT

Biowza said:


> Well out of the two, I find that the Brock "nuthuggers" seem to talk a hell of a lot more sense.
> 
> Brock "nuthuggers" are all like "Brock might win against Fedor because Fedor is human an-"
> 
> Only to be cut off mid sentence by "Fedor is fedor is fedor is fedor, wwe is fake brock has no skill, fedor dominating a TOP QUALITY opponent in Rogers who was UNDEFEATED brock takes roids and has no skill HERP DERP"


Yeah this is about right... 

I think it's mostly because Brock fans really have to overcome this pointless stereotype that if you like Brock your most likely some casual fan who has no idea about MMA. 

Whereas the opposite is true for Fedor fans, apparently "Fedor can't be beat, he will defeat any contender who comes his way and I don't even need to bother justifying myself because I am talking about Fedor" is an opinion that would be met with very minimal resistance.

And before you crazy, overzealous Fedor fans decide to come head hunt me I would like to mention that I am a fan of Fedor, I think he is an excellent fighter and he is an extremely humble, deserving (former?)champion (undoubtably there will be a few of you who will decide to ignore this disclaimer).

So yeah... Fedor is great and all but I really can't be fucked listening to his nuthuggers go on and on and on about him, we get it, he's awesome.


----------



## AceFranklin88

I definitely see your point, but I just tend to disagree. You can't just say that most Brock fans use logic and most Fedor fans don't. I see idiocy from both sides...quite a bit. Especially if you just go lurk over at the Sh!tdog forums. People on both sides are pretty stupid. But over here, both sides are pretty mixed in terms of logic and stupidity. So I guess it really doesn't matter since it comes down to what people see. If you see more stupid Fedor nuthuggers who think he's God and can't be beaten, then your opinion makes sense. I'm just saying that I see both quite a bit and that's where my opinion comes from.


----------



## vandalian

Seems that Fedor's win Saturday made both he and Brock worse. 

If either one of them wins again, they'll both be out of the top 10.


----------



## DropKick

vandalian said:


> Seems that Fedor's win Saturday made both he and Brock worse.
> 
> If either one of them wins again, they'll both be out of the top 10.


True. Brett Rogers is clearly the best HW in the game. He made it to the second round!


----------



## Vale_Tudo

CornbreadBB said:


> IMO, it's Dana that's making this shit difficult


Dana did offer Fedor the biggest contract he's ever done.
Fedor turned him down, 


From what I gathered from this whole mess Is that Fedor and his Mafia friends wants to co-promote with UFC and their M1 Global and share the profits.

If you were the boss of a multi billion dollar company, would you agree to this?
Not only that, but you are giving recognition to M1, a promotion you one day might be competing against..

Dana Is only protecting his company.. Fedor only wants his company to succeed.

We the fans are screwed because of politics.


----------



## alizio

Mjr said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Lesnar is untested, all we know thus far is that he has amazing wrestling, great ground control, average striking and hasn't beaten anyone of high merit as yet. He could have a glass jaw like Arvloski we don't ******* know yet. Anyone that is %100 certain that he would beat Fedor is being delusional.
> 
> Sure its a possibility (Brock beating Fedor), but you are just playing a scenario out in your head with a fighter that hasn't been put to the test in many departments yet. He has an extremely low number of fights, you need to learn to hold off before claiming your favorite fighter is a world beater. Did you not learn your lesson from previously hyped fighters being exposed.
> 
> PS: Good thread CB, I am surpised.


 well hell, lets get lesnar those HIGH MERIT fights then... like say... Big Tim (im sure he would struggle) then say... AA (oh yea, real top HW there) and end it off with Grim (he will struggle massively with that well rounded fighters overall techique). Only then can he be considered a top HW right?? Nevermind he actually beat guys better then all 3 already, i would take Randy over any of those bums (wait didnt Randy already beat 2 of them?? LOL), same with Mir.


----------



## alizio

marcthegame said:


> fedor has smashed
> :aa,big nog,sylvia,herring,coleman,rogers,arona,lindland,crocop. Y does his crown as the number 1 keeps being debated when he keeps smashing everyone they put infront of him.


 prob cuz none of the names mentioned are top 10 right now.... or will ever be again if they were {which for all cases is MANY years ago).

EDIT missed big nog.. he def is somebody worth noting. Altho he never finished him and he has been finished in the UFC and was so close to being demolished by Big Tim.


----------



## alizio

Mjr said:


> Your posts just degenerate into meaningless nothing.
> 
> By this logic if you put on a good showing against Anderson Silva and did some damage before losing then yes you would be considered a great fighter, this is the point the above poster was trying to make.


 ahh let me change my logic... good showing huh?? Cuz he landed a jab and had ground control for 5 seconds??

Ok, by this logic, Travis Lutter with his "good showing" against anderson could clear out any organization without Anderson in it...

WAR LUTTER!!


----------



## SideWays222

CornbreadBB said:


> Mods, you can move to whatever you feel is the appropriate thread, but when talking about both Strikeforce and UFC, I'm kinda confused where to put it.
> 
> So I hears a lotta talk that "Fedor won't sign with the UFC because he's dodging the real opponents at HW".
> 
> IMO, it's Dana that's making this shit difficult, he knows (especially after last night) Fedor will bring in huge ratings but does he really want this dude who is soft spoken and an animal to destroy the best in his HW division? Is it so hard for Dana to juts allow Fyodor to compete in ***** competitions or is that Dana realises the true talent of Fedor and is scared that his HWs are/were subpar to some other org's fighters. I'm getting sick of people saying Fedor is ducking people, Dana, ******* get Fedor in the UFC , stop being a puss, and accept that the greatest fighter in the HW division is 1) not American, 2) not a trash talker and 3) s omebody you have talked badly about. If the UFC really had the best HWs in the world, wouldn't Dana try to solidify that fact by bringing in the best HWs in the world? Even somebody like Overeem would clearly be in the top 5, I'm sick of this bullshit about contracts and Dana not letting somebody do so and so.
> 
> I'm sorry it hurts when you actually don't have the "best MMA fighters in the world" in your org, but let them in, test the waters, see what happens. Your top HW prospect is Brock....a ******* untalented piece of physical mastery and after that Shave Carwin...Cain Velasquez? Yeah, they're good at their respective art, but Fedor is all around ******* good at every art. He can get you with a submission while seeimingly dying or can knock you out with one punch.
> 
> Either way, all in all, Dana get Fedor into the UFC, I know he's going to maul your HWs but this is what happens in a real sport. Either way......rant done.


Dana actually said he would allow Fedor to keep competing in *****.

I think il stop reading.


----------



## alizio

i stopped reading after "fedor will bring in huge ratings"... hell, kimbo can bring in more, im sure lesnar on a free card would too, so would gsp or anderson silva. He was getting more then a fair deal from the UFC and was allowed to compete in ***** something to ufc never let anybody else do, compete in combat sports outside the ufc...


----------



## Toxic

alizio said:


> ahh let me change my logic... good showing huh?? Cuz he landed a jab and had ground control for 5 seconds??
> 
> Ok, by this logic, Travis Lutter with his "good showing" against anderson could clear out any organization without Anderson in it...
> 
> WAR LUTTER!!


I would actually say Lutter had a "good showing" against Anderson, I mean shit Lutter damn near had Silva in the first and easily won the first round before pulling a Lutter and running the f*** outta gas.


----------



## xeberus

Toxic said:


> I would actually say Lutter had a "good showing" against Anderson, I mean shit Lutter damn near had Silva in the first and easily won the first round before pulling a Lutter and running the f*** outta gas.


lol yea, lutter did great against anderson. He came the closest to finishing him than anyone else in the UFC.


----------



## alizio

Toxic said:


> I would actually say Lutter had a "good showing" against Anderson, I mean shit Lutter damn near had Silva in the first and easily won the first round before pulling a Lutter and running the f*** outta gas.



i was being serious, Lutter did look good vs Anderson, and not looking good like ppl say Brett looked good the other night, he actually had control of anderson and mounted him.

Im comparing it because ppl are saying since brett looked "Good" (i dont think he really did but lets roll with that opinion) that it somehow makes him capable of clearing out the UFC HW Divsion (thats what khov says in this thread, im surprised more ppl dont laugh about it) then by the same logic since Lutter looked good against Anderson, he should clear out any MW division besides the UFC?? 

obv silly statement, but khov getting away with it


----------



## swpthleg

alizio said:


> ahh let me change my logic... good showing huh?? Cuz he landed a jab and had ground control for 5 seconds??
> 
> Ok, by this logic, Travis Lutter with his "good showing" against anderson could clear out any organization without Anderson in it...
> 
> WAR LUTTER!!


Don't double or triple post any more; please use the edit button.


----------



## CornbreadBB

Why is it that my benzo induced thread gets so much attention? Hot damn.


----------



## swpthleg

CornbreadBB said:


> Why is it that my benzo induced thread gets so much attention? Hot damn.


Because benzos are great, and make you have amazing idears.:thumb02:


----------



## Mjr

alizio said:


> ahh let me change my logic... good showing huh?? Cuz he landed a jab and had ground control for 5 seconds??
> 
> Ok, by this logic, Travis Lutter with his "good showing" against anderson could clear out any organization without Anderson in it...
> 
> WAR LUTTER!!


I never said he could clear out an organisation, He bullied Fedor around for a bit, he didn't get completely destroyed in the first 2 minutes as most predicted. (see the prediction thread" 

I am saying Rogers looked solid against top competition, I would like to see more of him.


----------



## khoveraki

Mjr said:


> I never said he could clear out an organisation, He bullied Fedor around for a bit, he didn't get completely destroyed in the first 2 minutes as most predicted. (see the prediction thread"
> 
> *I am saying Rogers looked solid against top competition, I would like to see more of him*.


Cosigned. If nothing else, the Fedor vs Rogers fight proved that Rogers vs Arlovski was no fluke.


----------



## Darkwraith

*Rampage in Playboy interview*



> The Mercurial MMA Champ Gets Swinging Mad About His Ultimate Fighter Protégés, Rude Fans, and Conversations about His Arrest Last Year
> 
> “I actually hated coaching. The job f**king sucked. And they better not ask me to do it again. It’s just f**king too much,” says Quinton “Rampage” Jackson in Playboy’s December 20Q when asked about his role on the reality series The Ultimate Fighter: Heavyweights (issue on newsstands and online at www.playboydigital.com Friday, November 13). “I’ve got kids I didn’t see, and I’d bust out crying whenever I looked at their picture. And I ain’t gonna lie – the pay f**king sucked for how much work I did.”
> 
> While the former wrestler and UFC champion recently announced his retirement from the octagon, Jackson’s candid conversation with Playboy contributor Jason Buhrmester proves he’s still got plenty of fight in him. Following are selected quotes from the interview:
> 
> On motivating his fighters: “Some guys you slap and they get motivated. Some guys you’ve got to tell them, ‘Do you want me to change your tampon?’ You’ve got all different types of personalities.”
> 
> On the first time he punched someone in the face: “My mom said I’ve been fighting my whole life. But the first time I punched somebody in the face who wasn’t a family member was in kindergarten. I let this kid borrow one of my Hot Wheels, and he broke it, so I decided to break my foot off in his ass. I’ve been in so many fights it just seems natural.”
> 
> On who first gave him the nickname Rampage: “I got the nickname from my cousin when I was eight years old. I had a bad temper. When I would lose my temper my family thought it was amusing because I used to huff and hyperventilate. It was bad. … When I was around 15, I tattooed it on my arm myself.”
> 
> On his role in the upcoming remake of The A-Team, the movie that caused him to quit the UFC: “I can’t talk too much about it. I’m doing it now that I’ve finished this reality show. … I used to bond with my father watching The A-Team as a kid. My dad and I are still big fans of the show, so I am basically doing this for the childhood memories.”
> 
> On growing up in Memphis: “I kind of did the street life for a bit, so I learned a lot. But you know, growing up in the streets I learned not to be like the guys I followed, which turned out to be pretty good for me. Those guys, they didn’t end up doing too much. They’re still living at home with their mamas.”
> 
> On Kimbo Slice’s chances in the UFC: “Kimbo has a lot of learning to do, but he’s willing to do it. He’s learned so quickly that I think he’s got a bright future in the UFC if he keeps progressing.”
> 
> On making the switch from wrestling to mixed martial arts: “I met one of my favorite wrestlers at a hotel when I was wrestling in the state championships. I can’t say who it was, but I asked him for an autograph, and he was kind of rude to me. Then I saw him signing another kid’s autograph as he was leaving, so that killed my dream of becoming a pro wrestler. I didn’t want to have nothing to do with it.”
> 
> On his time in Japan: “I like people watching there. They dress so funny. I just like to watch them. It’s like watching a bunch of living robots.”
> 
> On his arrest last year on felony hit-and-run charges: “A lady tried to sue me and say she had a miscarriage because of the accident, but the DA said it had nothing to do with the miscarriage. Anyway, that’s old news.”
> 
> On the hardest punch he’s ever thrown: “That was in my fight last December when I knocked out Wanderlei Silva. … It was very technical. I think that was the hardest punch I’ve ever thrown. He was out before he hit the ground. … I connected and did everything exactly right. I just felt like butter.”
> 
> On his fans: “Some people are just rude. People poke me, run up to me and say weird things. … Yesterday some guy grabbed me and spun me around. I thought it was one of my friends. He asked, ‘Are you Rampage?’ I told him, ‘Hey, look, dude, just don’t touch people, man.”
> 
> To read the entire interview click here.


http://mmamania.com/2009/11/12/quinton-jackson-goes-on-a-rampage-in-playboys-20-questions/


----------



## Mjr

Belfort said:


> Awsome news i will make the trip from Perth to see this for sure, very interested to see what sort of card they will put together for us. It will be sick no matter what can't wait :thumb02:


Yup I will be going also from Perth.


----------



## Mattriel

I'll try to make a trip down from Far North Queensland to see this!


----------



## fakANT

I can honestly see why Rampage is disliked by his haters but I saw him fight before I saw him open his mouth so I am a big fan.


----------



## michelangelo

'Page is a mixed up messed up human being. But I like watchin' him fight. Here's to his quick (hopefully eventual) return.


----------



## Redrum

I'd rather watch Rashad fight.

I'm pretty much done with Rampage.


----------



## swpthleg

Oh boy. That brain to mouth filter that he sometimes has a little tiny bit of, was completely absent.

I realize he's being an insensitive douche, but some things he said still made me laugh. At the end of the day, fight promotions love "characters".


----------



## Spec0688

regardless of how he is acting since the dana feud and him pursuing him acting career, I would still pay to watch him fight.


----------



## Zenhalo

michelangelo said:


> 'Page is a mixed up messed up human being. But I like watchin' him fight. Here's to his quick (hopefully eventual) return.


No- he's just not the brightest bulb on the string.


----------



## osmium

The only men who buy softcore porn are closeted homosexuals. It is part of the disguise it is like the fake mustache of homosexuality.


----------



## Zenhalo

Yeah - because buying hardcore porn is the real measure of your sexuality.


----------



## swpthleg

Who "buys" pr0n anymore?


----------



## leifdawg

osmium said:


> The only men who buy softcore porn are closeted homosexuals. It is part of the disguise it is like the fake mustache of homosexuality.


So your saying that hardcore porn which implies a penis being present is less gay than naked pictures of women only?


----------



## MooJuice

regardles of whether i agree with or like rampage on tuf 10, he has made me laugh out loud so many times during this season that i can't do anything but give him his props.

I wouldn't be surprised if he had bi-polar or borderline personality disorder, but regardless, some of his quips on tuf10 have made me laugh so much that i just cant help but like him.

I never thought i'd laugh that much at an mma fighter, but seriously, i am hardly even a fan of rampage usually and yet some of the stuff he says has me in stitches.


----------



## Darkwraith

MooJuice said:


> regardles of whether i agree with or like rampage on tuf 10, he has made me laugh out loud so many times during this season that i can't do anything but give him his props.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if he had bi-polar or *borderline personality disorder*, but regardless, some of his quips on tuf10 have made me laugh so much that i just cant help but like him.
> 
> I never thought i'd laugh that much at an mma fighter, but seriously, i am hardly even a fan of rampage usually and yet some of the stuff he says has me in stitches.


I am going for this. My ex-wife has that...I hadn't really thought of it in terms of him until you brought it up.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

I highly doubt the California DA said he had nothing to do with the miscarriage. That would be a diagnosis, and the DA is not a medical physician. 

CA may be like most other states and doesn't count an unborn child as a life until it has had its first breath. I may be wrong, but that seems more likely. 

I hate him more every time I read something he says.


----------



## swpthleg

Darkwraith said:


> I am going for this. My ex-wife has that...I hadn't really thought of it in terms of him until you brought it up.


He fits the clinical model insofar as his ups appear to be wayyy up, and his downs, well, you know.


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## Darkwraith

Indeed he does now that it was brought up things start to make sense with his behavior.


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## xeberus

wait so we dont get to see his junk


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## swpthleg

I think that would be Playgirl, and some guys bitch out and don't get naked, like the dork from Winger.


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## joshua7789

swpthleg said:


> I think that would be Playgirl, and some guys bitch out and don't get naked, like the dork from Winger.


Not Frank Trigg, he did the full on "Mike Honcho" spread. For a second I thought Rampage was following suit, but then I realized that it takes a dude with a full on man tan to pull that off.


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## swpthleg

joshua7789 said:


> Not Frank Trigg, he did the full on "Mike Honcho" spread. For a second I thought Rampage was following suit, but then I realized that it takes a dude with a full on man tan to pull that off.


I'd spend a few quality minutes with that. I have unusual taste, I guess. Or maybe I'm just wanting to admire Trigg's man tan and pedicure.

TBH the few times I did look at Playboy, the interviews and articles were actually pretty good. I was probably the only one that read them, but they did not disappoint.


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## joshua7789

swpthleg said:


> I'd spend a few quality minutes with that. I have unusual taste, I guess. Or maybe I'm just wanting to admire Trigg's man tan and pedicure.
> 
> TBH the few times I did look at Playboy, the interviews and articles were actually pretty good. I was probably the only one that read them, but they did not disappoint.


Me and some buddies got a subscription to playboy when we first graduated high school and had our first parentless pad. Seemed like the cool thing to do, having a playboy on the coffee table all the time. We were so badass! Wait, I think i mean chessy...thats right, we were so cheesy!


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## swpthleg

joshua7789 said:


> Me and some buddies got a subscription to playboy when we first graduated high school and had our first parentless pad. Seemed like the cool thing to do, having a playboy on the coffee table all the time. We were so badass! Wait, I think i mean chessy...thats right, we were so cheesy!


 I've mostly just seen them was in people's bathrooms; I kind of casually wandered in there, sat on the sink and read. It was probably the only time a Playboy got read with the bathroom door open.

There has to be some MMA fighter with enough of a sense of humor to take it all off for Playgirl. let me think now......I can see Mayhem doing it but IDK if I'd want to see him naked.

Rampage will provide a highly entertaining interview, intermittent douchery or not.


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## joshua7789

swpthleg said:


> I've mostly just seen them was in people's bathrooms; I kind of casually wandered in there, sat on the sink and read. It was probably the only time a Playboy got read with the bathroom door open.
> 
> There has to be some MMA fighter with enough of a sense of humor to take it all off for Playgirl. let me think now......I can see Mayhem doing it but IDK if I'd want to see him naked.
> 
> Rampage will provide a highly entertaining interview, intermittent douchery or not.


I think Wes Simms said something about Baroni doing gay porn before...And for some reason, I believe him.


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## flexor

Internet porn > Playboy
Hustler > Playboy
I don't drink near beer when i want to get drunk either. 

Other than an interview with an mma fighter, I would have no reason to read any of Playboy's journalistic offerings. Either boring of topic or very left slanted.


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## osmium

leifdawg said:


> So your saying that hardcore porn which implies a penis being present is less gay than naked pictures of women only?


Well a straight man would have actual sex with a naked woman if he had one not look at her standing there naked and beat off. So Playboy is illogical from a heterosexual standpoint. The penis equals gay theory is something that a homosexual trying not to be found out would think of not a heterosexual. The immediate response to seeing hardcore porn from a heterosexual perspective would be WELL PENIS GOES IN VAGINA LOOKS GOOD TO ME not OH NO A PENIS SOMEONE WILL THINK I AM GAY. We are all friends here mate no need to keep secrets from us.(except the tuffers they are all hillbillies who will drag you from the back of their pickup truck.)


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## Sicilian_Esq

swpthleg said:


> There has to be some MMA fighter with enough of a sense of humor to take it all off for Playgirl.


Roy nelson is trying to be a corporate guy. If he wins it all, he'd do it to draw up publicity. :thumb02:


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## swpthleg

Sicilian_Esq said:


> Roy nelson is trying to be a corporate guy. If he wins it all, he'd do it to draw up publicity. :thumb02:


LMAO, perhaps I wasn't specific enough. There has to be an MMA fighter with a GSP-esque body and enough of a sense of humor to get naked in a magazine. Really naked, not "I don't like fur and my ex-call girl wife wants to start her acting career" naked.


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## bigcg98

Look...I can see, and Shogun looked untouched at the end, while Machida looked beat up. It was nowhere near a dominating performance, but Rua pushed the fight and scored more. I really don't want to see a rematch either because it was boring as hell the first time.


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## Soojooko

bigcg98 said:


> Look...I can see, and Shogun looked untouched at the end, while Machida looked beat up. It was nowhere near a dominating performance, but Rua pushed the fight and scored more. I really don't want to see a rematch either because it was boring as hell the first time.


Boring as Hell?

Hahahaha! That was one of the best fights I've ever seen. Goes to show you... It takes all sorts!


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## bigcg98

I guess so. When I watch MMA, I like to see the contrasting styles...a striker vs. a BJJ guy or whatever...but those two guys looked like a kickboxing match. I never saw anyone using any JJ or wrestling for that matter, and not a whole lot of head strikes either. It just looked like two guys trying to kick each other. I know there's great strategy involved, and I'm not a fighter myself, so I guess the nuances don't appeal to me as much as the other guy...but as an average fan, I thought it was boring. I thought Couture v. Vera was boring too, while Rogan and that other dude were like "what a great fight!" at the end. Either way, to me both those fights were scored wrong. Vera did more damage than Couture, even though I was pulling for Randy. I mean, come on...Vera crumpled him in the second with a body kick, and that was the only real damage done.


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## swpthleg

Soojooko said:


> Boring as Hell?
> 
> Hahahaha! That was one of the best fights I've ever seen. Goes to show you... It takes all sorts!


We're like a freakin box of chocolates, or Quality Street or something.


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## zath the champ

I LOL'ed.

It can be tough when you suck at your job and are publicly scrutinized.



MMARocks said:


> Put Shogun in the cage with Cecil, and Machida in the cage with Rogan.


Amen!


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## dlxrevolution

SideWays222 said:


> Yeah now i agree with you cecils... now that you told me to go to hell its all better.
> 
> **** you you ******* piece of shit. You can go to hell along with your shitty as scoring. Telling people to go to hell because they dont agree with you. Your an idiot. I hope Shogun kicks your ass for stealing his title away from him. :fight02:


I seriously loled at this.


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## machidaisgod

SideWays222 said:


> Yeah now i agree with you cecils... now that you told me to go to hell its all better.
> 
> **** you you ******* piece of shit. You can go to hell along with your shitty as scoring. Telling people to go to hell because they dont agree with you. Your an idiot. I hope Shogun kicks your ass for stealing his title away from him. :fight02:


Nelson says HAAA HAAA

Way to shut up the know everything, no nothing losers...tell'em Cecil "go to hell" Peoples u da man...LMAO


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## catosynister

Telling the people to go to hell is like a white guy saying the "N" word at a rap concert... you won't make it out alive.


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## coldcall420

*Vitor Belfort: I signed to fight on Feb. 6 -- but I don't know if it's against Silva*

http://www.mmamania.com/2009/11/17/1161416/vitor-belfort-i-signed-to-fight-on



_



"I’m waiting for the UFC to decide my opponent. But I will fight on February 6. I don’t know whether is it against Anderson (Silva), though. That’s that thing, we never know nothing in the UFC. The things go on and we don’t know. I signed to fight in February and they already warned me about it. The opponent is [sometimes] changed near the time of the fight. Tito Ortiz recently had his adversary changed close to fight. We have to be prepared the whole time. Anything can happen in the UFC -- but I don’t plan to move up to the light heavyweight division."

Click to expand...

_​


> UFC middleweight contender Vitor Belfort expects to fight at UFC 109 on Feb. 6 in Las Vegas — though he's not entirely convinced it will be against reigning champion Anderson Silva, who already withdrew from UFC 108 as he recovers from elbow surgery. "The Phenom" is coming off a first round destruction of former division champ Rich Franklin at UFC 103 on Sept. 19 in Dallas. The stoppage — coupled with his wins in Affliction — propelled him to an immediate title shot. The only question now is, when will he finally get it?


 
Intresting....thoughts???:confused02:

i think they would probably have Anderson fight on the big card on New Yrs????


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## Hammerlock2.0

It says Anderson 'pulled out' of UFC 108 because of his injury, so I guess it's safe to say that Vitor is fighting Anderson. We know it's not going to be Maynard, so Vitor remains.


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## coldcall420

*Anderson Silva vs. Vitor Belfort title fight targeted for UFC 109 on Feb. 6*



Hammerlock2.0 said:


> It says Anderson 'pulled out' of UFC 108 because of his injury, so I guess it's safe to say that Vitor is fighting Anderson. We know it's not going to be *Maynard*, so Vitor remains.


 
Who???^^

Anderson Silva vs. Vitor Belfort title fight targeted for UFC 109 on Feb. 6










> The highly anticipated UFC middleweight title fight between current champ Anderson Silva and explosive challenger Vitor Belfort is now targeted for UFC 109.
> 
> The UFC had originally hoped to feature the contest at UFC 108, but Silva's recovery process from elbow surgery forced a delay in the schedule.
> 
> Belfort first released news of the new date to the Portugese-language Terra magazine's "Mano a Mano" blog, and MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com) has since confirmed with sources close to the bout that verbal agreements are in place. Bout agreements have yet to be signed.
> 
> The bout is also contingent upon Silva's recovery process.
> 
> The bout between Belfort and Silva has been planned since "The Phenom's" triumphant return to the UFC with a TKO win over Rich Franklin in the catchweight main event of "UFC 103: Franklin vs. Belfort."
> 
> Silva's camp had initially expressed some resistance to taking a middleweight title fight with Belfort due to the challenger having yet to fight at 185 pounds in his return to the UFC. The champ has since agreed to put his belt on the line against Belfort whenever the fight does happen.
> 
> As for the elbow, Silva's manager, Ed Soares, told MMAjunkie.com in October that he doesn't believe there's a reason for any long-term concern.
> 
> "Anderson's recovery is going really, really well," Soares said. "He's coming back, and his recovery is doing really good. His physical therapy is going really well. He's getting better range of motion. He'll be back 100 percent for sure."
> 
> For complete coverage of UFC 109, stay tuned to the UFC Rumors section of MMAjunkie.com.


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## WouldLuv2FightU

You would think he would know whether or not he was fighting the champ or just another contender. It seems like if you signed to fight a contender it would be different paperwork from if you signed to fight the champ in a 5 rounder. 

Also, who is Maynard?


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## coldcall420

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> You would think he would know whether or not he was fighting the champ or just another contender. It seems like if you signed to fight a contender it would be different paperwork from if you signed to fight the champ in a 5 rounder.
> 
> *Also, who is Maynard*?


 
Thats what I wanna know????:confused02:


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## hixxy

Maybe Gray Maynards stepping up a few weight classes!


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## AceofSpades187

LMAO with the manyard jokes on topic thow i hope its anderson even though its soon for vitor it should b a interesting match


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## The_Sandman

I thought this match was set already???

It does not matter.... Belfort sucks :sarcastic12:. Let's hope for his sake that the fight does not go through :sarcastic05:. 

Silva over Belfort via TKO :smoke01:


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## Mirage445

Pretty sure he meant Marquardt.


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## coldcall420

*Report: Brock Lesnar undergoes surgery; Interim title fight in the works*

http://www.mmamania.com/2009/11/17/1162200/report-brock-lesnar-undergoes


*Report: Brock Lesnar undergoes surgery; Interim title fight in the works *





> UFC Heavyweight Champion Brock Lesnar today underwent surgery for a minor bacterial infection in his intestinal trac in Bismarck, N.D., according to the _*Los Angeles Times*_.
> 
> Company President Dana White today visited the 6'3", 280+-pound former professional wrestling star in the hospital, saying via Twitter.com:_"Brock had minor surgery and is feeling better. Not 100 percent sure he is out of the woods but feeling better."_​_*The National Post*_ reports that Lesnar is suffering from a severe case of diverticulitis, "a common digestive disease often found in the large intestine." Surgery is often only required as a last resort to prevent against a potentially life-threatening situation.
> In addition, White revealed that he could need additional procedures in the future if for whatever reason the latest one doesn't get him healthy.
> Therefore, with his return a complete open-ended mystery at this time, White has decided to coordinate an interim division title to keep things moving while Lesnar recovers.
> No potential candidates are known at this time; however, Shane Carwin -- who was supposed to fight Lesnar this weekend and then on Jan. 2 before both dates were scrapped because of the illness -- and Cain Velasquez have to be the current front runners.
> Junior dos Santos, Antonio Rodrigo "Minotauro" Nogueira and Frank Mir also have to be under consideration.
> Lesnar just recently unified the title when he defeated interim beltkeeper (at the time) Mir via technical knockout at UFC 100 on July 11. He stopped Couture in Nov. 2008 to initially capture the gold.
> Stay tuned to MMAmania.com as this developing story continues to take shape.


Def not faking it.....:thumbsup:


----------



## Mirage445

Thanks for the update.


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## UrbanBounca

That's awesome! I hope we see him in the Octagon again, but hope for his recovery first and foremost.


----------



## vandalian

What's up with this fight?


----------



## AlphaDawg

I wish Demian Maia beat Marquardt because he would have gotten his title shot by now. The only reason Marquardt isn't getting one is because he already lost to Silva.


----------



## khoveraki

AlphaDawg said:


> I wish Demian Maia beat Marquardt because he would have gotten his title shot by now. The only reason Marquardt isn't getting one is because he already lost to Silva.


Yeah I've thought about this before. As long as Maia really sticks to what he knows, throws his hands infront of his face and pulls flying guard, it could make for a fun fight.


Maia has a shitty opponent next that IMO he's way above, but it'll be nice if he gets a solid convincing win and gets to work his stand up.


----------



## Hammerlock2.0

This is going to be interesting. Carwin/Cain is the only logical choice in my view. JDS needs at least another big win, Nog and Mir shouldn't even be in the mix right now if you ask me. Nog is out with staph anyway, but he just lost to Mir, so he should be way down the list. Same goes for Mir, he just lost to the champion... convincingly. If Mir can sub Kongo and Nog is back in time I can see the rematch happening for a title shot though.


----------



## Hammerlock2.0

coldcall420 said:


> Who???^^
> 
> Anderson Silva vs. Vitor Belfort title fight targeted for UFC 109 on Feb. 6


Sorry, I meant to say Marquardt. :thumb02:


----------



## Ruckus

Silva/Belfort is the fight in principal right now, and makes sense being SB weekend. I really hope The Phenom is ready to fight Silva. It would just be nice to see someone compete with the Spider. Or maybe he is just that damn good!!!


----------



## Seperator88

this is really weird, he sounds like he's really dissin' the UFC, he keeps saying things like you never know whats going on, things happen that you don't know about etc.

I don't think that's really the case, I mean the examples he uses were due to injury, and I haven't heard a lot of people complain about things like this


----------



## Seperator88

YEA!! great to hear the news, now lets get things moving with the interim title, not that I care about it that much, but I'm ready to see some fights in the HW division.


----------



## kc1983

Well, its going to be Carwin VS either Velasquez or Nogueira. Can't wait! 
Hope Brock makes a speedy recovery and is able to fight sooner than later.

EDIT - forgot Nog got staph again. 

Carwin/Velasquez is gonna happen!


----------



## YOURMOMWASHERE

Nice, good to hear. Im so glad I didnt abuse roids that much or my intestines would be shot! Ouch!


----------



## callme1

YOURMOMWASHERE said:


> Nice, good to hear. Im so glad I didnt abuse roids that much or my intestines would be shot! Ouch!


I like Cheese.


----------



## AceCombat

I vote Dos Santos vs. Velasquez!


----------



## The_Sandman

Hope Lesnar gets better. :thumbsup:

I think Shane Carwin (vs) Cain Velasquez, would be the safe bet. Minotauro is 1-1 in his last two fights, and the same goes for Frank Mir. Junior Dos Santos is good, but I'm not 100% sold on the fact that he can beat a Frank Mir, Minotauro or even Chiek Kongo. Dos Santos needs another 2 good fights before putting him into the mix of things. 

If it does go down.... Velasquez over Carwin via decision.:smoke01:


----------



## EastonAssassin

hopefully brock will be back in the cage by september or october. as far as the title goes, it should be the winner of cain and carwin vs the winner of mir and kongo for the interim champ. big nog is out so he'll get the first crack at the interim champ when he gets back.


----------



## Danm2501

I read a quote from a Lesnar family friend that Brock could be fighting fit in 5/6 months, and if that's true, then I don't see the need for an interim title. I'd like to see Carwin vs Velasquez, but as a #1 contender fight, not an Interim title fight.


----------



## AdRath

YOURMOMWASHERE said:


> Im so glad I didnt abuse roids that much or my intestines would be shot! Ouch!


I like cheese!!!


----------



## truebluefan

Threads are being restored


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## zath the champ

:thumb03:


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