# ***OFFICIAL*** Josh Koscheck vs. Johny Hendricks Pre/Post Fight Discussion Thread



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

*Welterweight bout (170 pounds)*










*Please direct all threads/posts regarding this fight into this official thread. All other threads will be merged into this one.*​


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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

I'd like to see Johny Hendricks pull this off. He's definately got the power to knock Koscheck out.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Not really sure who take take but I think I am leaning slightly towards Kos. If he can get this fight to the mat consistently then he has it. Otherwise he may be in some trouble.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Kos was getting tooled standing by Matt Hughes and is regressing as a fighter. Hendricks should put him away within 2.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Hendricks has better wrestling credentials and is a better striker, at 1.90 Hendricks is a good bet.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

MRBRESK said:


> Hendricks has better wrestling credentials and is a better striker, at 1.90 Hendricks is a good bet.


This is pretty much how I see it. Hendricks has an edge over Kos in every category except arrogance. I hope Kos gets KTFO.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

I'm thinking conservative Koscheck shows up.

This is his last chance to get the title and with GSP coming off a serious injury + long layoff there's a good chance Condit can beat GSP and a third fight between Koscheck and GSP is hard to sell but a fight between Condit and Koscheck isn't hard at all. Fresh opponents, fresh faces and it's a fight Koscheck has a decent shot at winning, not to mention Koscheck knows good and well Hendricks can KO anyone and I don't think he's gonna take the chance Fitch took, my bet is he does what he did to Paul Daley it won't be easy considering the huge gap in wrestling between Hendricks and Daley but Koscheck's not a bad wrestler himself.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

This is a tough one which means it's a very good match up. 

Both can wrestle and both have concussive power. JK though will want to avenge his team mate's loss so that may effect the way he fights; ultra cautious ftw or super belligerent. Hopefully the latter fueled with his pompous arrogance. That would set for a nice lil KO by Hendricks and cause for a toast!


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Actually leaning towards Hendricks on this one. I don't see Kos out striking Hendricks. Hendricks also has the wrestling to keep it standing.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Beard > Silly troll hair.

Really looking forward to this fight, I hope it goes a few rounds so we see when Hendricks really is. A quick KO over Fitch followed by a solid win over Kos? Skies the limits if that happens.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

K R Y said:


> Beard > Silly troll hair.
> 
> Really looking forward to this fight, I hope it goes a few rounds so we see when Hendricks really is. A quick KO over Fitch followed by a solid win over Kos? Skies the limits if that happens.


Sounds like the next top contender if that happens.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Sounds like the next top contender if that happens.


He'd have to be in there somewhere, man WW is so deep.. Condit, Ellenberger, Rory Mac (if he wanted one)and Hendricks all could have valid reasons as to why they should be fighting for a title by the end of the year. Dark horses like Bahadurzadah and Erick Silva are very interesting aswell. Kampmann is on a 2 fight win streak over good competition after losing two straight decisions that he could easily have won.

2012 is going to be a very interesting year for WW, even without Nick Diaz.


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## rebonecrusher (Nov 21, 2011)

Could see this one going either way and I could see both fighters winning by KO or decision. Overall my bets on Koscheck something tells me hes getting the win either by catching Hendricks with a big right and pounding him out or grinding out a decision. I think with Hendricks striking power he has a fair chance of knocking Koscheck out. What a feather under Hendricks cap it would be to have KO'd both Fitch and Koscheck.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

I see Hendricks imposing his will on KOS all 3 rounds.
He has better wrestling, more KO power and seems to be the hungrier or the two.

Kos def. has power with those looping punches, but I'm willing to bet he gets caught coming in (ala Paula Thiago style).


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

On paper, Hendricks has the better wrestling credentials, but I'm not sure on who has the better MMA wrestling. Koscheck has good double legs when he actually is looking to take a fighter down, and he has good take down defense himself, while also having a good ability to get back to his feet. He seemed to struggled a little in the clinch against Pierce, but his double legs got through very well a few times. A little measuring stick for Koscheck and Hendricks is their fight against Pierce. They both struggled, but managed to win a split decision. I don't like to use MMA math, but I expect them to be very close in skill regarding their wrestling abilities. If Koscheck looks to turn this into a grappling battle, it could realistically go either way.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Nick_V03 said:


> On paper, Hendricks has the better wrestling credentials, but I'm not sure on who has the better MMA wrestling. Koscheck has good double legs when he actually is looking to take a fighter down, and he has good take down defense himself, while also having a good ability to get back to his feet. He seemed to struggled a little in the clinch against Pierce, but his double legs got through very well a few times. A little measuring stick for Koscheck and Hendricks is their fight against Pierce. They both struggled, but managed to win a split decision. I don't like to use MMA math, but I expect them to be very close in skill regarding their wrestling abilities. If Koscheck looks to turn this into a grappling battle, it could realistically go either way.


Kos does have the better takedowns and takedown defense but the gap in striking is a lot bigger than the one in wrestling.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

That's true, and it's sad because Koscheck's striking used to look like it was coming along. Now, he's getting out struck by Hughes and had to rely on Hughes not having much of a chin anymore to win.

Koscheck turning this into a grappling match is kind of a long shot, and we all know how much he can't resist striking.


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

I don't think either fighter can be held down on the mat, so I see this fight remaining on the feet for the most part. Hendricks will land a hard punch and wobble Kos, and either win by UD or possibly TKO. This fight will symbolize the passing of the torch from an old WW contender to a new one.


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## ProdigyPenn (Sep 9, 2011)

On paper, this fight is interesting as they are matching 2 wrestlers with Knock out power in their hands.

But I will give the edge to Hendricks. 

Since the GSP fight (where Kos face got re-arranged), Kos hasn't fought like himself. Matt Hughes hang with him pretty well before getting knocked out and this follow up with a unimpressive win over Mike Pierce. 

If Hendricks is able to KO Kos, he would be the most loved fighter in the WW facing KO both Fitch and Kos.


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## tommydervan (Apr 26, 2012)

osmium said:


> Kos was getting tooled standing by Matt Hughes and is regressing as a fighter. Hendricks should put him away within 2.


I like that word, regressing. I feel the same way, like he's getting worse not better. I got Hendricks


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

tommydervan said:


> I like that word, regressing. I feel the same way, like he's getting worse not better. I got Hendricks


Regressing implies he is getting worse, I wouldn't go that far but I'd say he is stagnating. He hasn't shown any improvement for quite a while now. Close fight but I pick Hendricks as well.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I went with Koscheck. If he proves to have better wrestling that night he will grind out a decision. But I am really hoping to see Hendricks keep it standing.


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## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

Hendricks.

As another poster observed, Kos' can't seem to resist the allure of the big KO, and he seems to have bought into the hype that he's some kind of KO artist.

I'm envisioning a Koscheck big overhand right missing, followed by the short left counter we saw Hendricks lay on Fitch.

Nitey-nite, Fraggle. 

.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

This is one of those rare fights where one of my favourites goes against one of the most odious characters in the universe.

If Hendricks knocks Camelboy out, I cant express how happy it will make me. It'll be right up there with Scaub getting KTFO by Nog.


War Druid man!


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> This is one of those rare fights where one of my favourites goes against one of the most odious characters in the universe.
> 
> If Hendricks knocks Camelboy out, I cant express how happy it will make me. It'll be right up there with Scaub getting KTFO by Nog.
> 
> ...


This pretty much sums up my feelings on this fight. Whilst I wouldnt nescesseraly call my self a Hendricks fan, I can't resist the alure of someone KO'ing Kos.


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## OwnOrBeOwned (Mar 22, 2010)

I'd love it if Hendricks can knock Kos out. I've just got a feeling Kos will win a close or split decision, hopefully I'm wrong


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I won't say Hendricks got lucky against Fitch, but blame Fitch for not being ready. Still in a rematch I see Fitch taking it, and I expect Kos will take this fight as well. I don't expect a finish, and maybe even a boring decision, but I think Kos is a step ahead in MMA wrestling and a step behind in MMA striking compared to the Druid, but in MMA being ahead in wrestling tends to win you more fights than not.

But if Hendricks does get past Kos, and even better if he does finish him, it means a real interesting title shot picture will start to be painted.


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## VikingKing (Dec 3, 2011)

I dont know who will take this.Kos struggled in his last fight and won on a controversial decision.He didnt look impressive at all in that fight!

i think Hendricks can very well KO or TKO Kosh.I would not be suprised if he won this,im rooting for Hendricks.But Kosh is not a easy fight at all.


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

cdtcpl said:


> I won't say Hendricks got lucky against Fitch, but blame Fitch for not being ready. Still in a rematch I see Fitch taking it, and I expect Kos will take this fight as well. I don't expect a finish, and maybe even a boring decision, but I think Kos is a step ahead in MMA wrestling and a step behind in MMA striking compared to the Druid, but in MMA being ahead in wrestling tends to win you more fights than not.
> 
> But if Hendricks does get past Kos, and even better if he does finish him, it means a real interesting title shot picture will start to be painted.


this, exactly.

Fitch got caught, it was bound to happen eventually, it just did, Hendricks was the one who caught it. It was too fast to see whether or not Hendricks was ready for Fitch or how much he improved or anything really. The punch landed, right place, right time, flash KO, moving on. there's maybe more to it, maybe not, we'll see against Kos.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I hope Kos shows up and shows everyone why he really is the second best guy in the WW division. Kos is explosive has a wrestling that is likely top 5 in MMA and before he fell in love with that big right hand he showed he is a very competent striker.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Koscheck hasn't looked good and the drama with the camps might affect him. I've been saying it for a while the GSP fight damaged him mentally.

Im betting on Hendricks catching him with a big punch.


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## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

It would be so awesome to have Koscheck win by flash KO tonight. Just a random thought.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Come on Koscheck, let's bring this one on home for Fitch.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Alessia said:


> It would be so awesome to have Koscheck win by flash KO tonight. Just a random thought.


I was actually thinking how great it would be if Hendricks knocked Kos out worse than he did Fitch.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I don't see Johnny winning this. I guess it depends on which Koscheck shows up.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Koscheck hasn't looked good and the drama with the camps might affect him. I've been saying it for a while the GSP fight damaged him mentally.
> 
> Im betting on Hendricks catching him with a big punch.


I think it has more to do with him just throwing that big predictable overhand right than it does the loss to GSP. I also think he may struggle with motivation because fighting to be #2 just isn't the same. Kos is very competitive and knowing he will likely never get to fight for the title again has to make it difficult for him to get motivated.


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## VikingKing (Dec 3, 2011)

Roflcopter said:


> Koscheck hasn't looked good and the drama with the camps might affect him. I've been saying it for a while the GSP fight damaged him mentally.
> 
> Im betting on Hendricks catching him with a big punch.


I agree.Also changing camp doesnt have to be positive for him either..but a kos in top shape and motivated is a top contender.

Hendricks have the momentum on his side and have looked very good in his last fight..

but this is MMA.You just never know


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm rooting for Koscheck, but I can see him losing if he gets stuck to a certain gameplan he seems to do lately, and thats just overhand rights. 

Hope he mixes it up and puts on a good fight!


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Let's go Kos!!!!


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

He was being outstruck by Hughes and Pierce who don't really have big power...that guy shows up he's probably getting flattened.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

That was bullshit...Hendricks got poked and almost got knocked out while he was trying to recover.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Kos striking looks much more crisp tonight and he isn't being overly predictable with that big right. I would like to see him mixing some td's in there.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

just cause your eye hurts doesnt mean its a poke.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

10-9 Kos on my card, I feel he was getting the better of the striking exchanges.


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## VikingKing (Dec 3, 2011)

I think Kos looks good so far!


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Missed the first round. Was there a clear cut winner or was it close?


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Only reason Hendricks had more strikes, was the 10 or so knees on Kos's leg. I gave the 1st to Kos easily.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

HexRei said:


> just cause your eye hurts doesnt mean its a poke.


Well he didn't punch him in the eye and shoved an open hand into his face right before he started favoring it so I am going with the signature Kos eyegouge.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

HexRei said:


> just cause your eye hurts doesnt mean its a poke.


Except Kos pokes everyone constantly pawing with his left open hand.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I wish Kos would just shoot a double, he has a double leg that is virtually second to none and he should be using it if only to throw Hendricks off his game.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Ellenberger would destroy both of these guys.


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## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

Have it at one round for each of them right now.


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## VikingKing (Dec 3, 2011)

1-1 Hendricks got 2 round obviously.Looks like Hendricks is slowly taking over..he is getting the better in striking.Kos need to get his act together or he will lose this.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Alessia said:


> Have it at one round for each of them right now.


Yep. 1 Kos 2 Hendricks.

Kos sure loves holding the cage!


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

19-19, Kos just got very passive for no reason


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

That second could go either way but IMO rounds like that tend to go to the guy who lost the previous round so the 3rd is important here for both guys.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

Koscheck's eye is forever knackard


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

That td is huge at this stage and likely the game changer for this fight.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

That double leg could seal the fight for Kos if he can do some damage here.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Toxic said:


> That second could go either way but IMO rounds like that tend to go to the guy who lost the previous round so the 3rd is important here for both guys.


Speaking of which, this exact takedown just won him the fight.


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## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

Kos really needs to look out for that eye. Could be some permanent damage if he doesn't. I've got Kos winning round 1 and Hendricks winning 2. So far Kos has won the 3rd too.

Hendricks is a dick head.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

I scored it 29-28 Hendricks.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Kos dominating the end here.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Spec0688 said:


> Speaking of which, this exact takedown just won him the fight.


I agree, Kos needs to shoot more TD's when he wants to take somebody down he is rarely denied. 


29-28 Kos.


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## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

29-28 Koscheck. 

Wasn't really impressed with either of them though.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Tough one to score. I was leaning towards Hendricks before that takedown. Not sure who'll the judges will award it to, tbh.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Missed the first round but I had it 1-1. Looks like most of you are saying Kos won the 1st, hope you're right.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Complete robbery if Kos wins. Half a round laying on a guy isn't more meaningful than half a round of beating the shit out of a guy.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

29-28 Kos. Another fight where he underutilised his double leg though


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Good fight at any rate.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Koscheck could really be a great fighter, and he was at one point. He slipped into this mentality that he needs to bang everytime he fights now, and hardly ever uses his wrestling, even just to keep the opponent guessing. I think he knows he can only succeed in the UFC by being a draw, by being exciting, and thats the main reason why we see him going for the KO so much. 

He doesn't look it at all, but he's 34 and he said he doesn't want to do this till he's 40, so he's got a few years left.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

2-1 Kos.

Looks very much to me that the fire in Koscheck has burnt out  shame


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## Jumanji (Mar 30, 2011)

29-28 Koscheck but I could see it going the other way. Not impressed with Hendricks tbh.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Kos needs to stop with the whole elite striker bs. He's a wrestler, and needs to double leg guys and work on finishing them on the ground.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Could go either way, good fight though.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Hendricks deserves the decision for the last two rounds...would be a shame is Kos got another controversial decision in his favour.


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## VikingKing (Dec 3, 2011)

Alessia said:


> 29-28 Koscheck.
> 
> Wasn't really impressed with either of them though.


Me either.Not impressive,but even fight as expected.But kos won this by that takedown in 3 round.

But thats all..if he didnt get that takedown,then Hendricks could have won this.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

osmium said:


> Complete robbery if Kos wins. Half a round laying on a guy isn't more meaningful than half a round of beating the shit out of a guy.


He closed out the round pounding on Hendricks. I'd hardly call that laying on him. 

Still, it's damn close.


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## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

osmium said:


> Complete robbery if Kos wins. Half a round laying on a guy isn't more meaningful than half a round of beating the shit out of a guy.


Wouldn't call it a robbery at all. Was a close fight.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

osmium said:


> Ellenberger would destroy both of these guys.


If it ended in the first, otherwise he'd gas and get finished.


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## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

I have it for Kos b/c of rounds 1 and 3.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I can't believe people think Hendricks won.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Yes! Awesome! I thought Kos was going to rob him.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!

wow, feel bad for Koscheck, he needed this win more.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Oh my god two judges with brains.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

very close fight


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Robbery either way he would be nothing but cannon fodder for GSP.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Hendricks out struck him and got takedowns in the first two rounds, acceptable decision.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Glad to see some judges actually score fights based on the criteria highlighted in the unified rules.

I thought Hendricks won the 2nd and third rather clearly.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Not upset with the decision, but If Hendricks gets a title shot off of that, that would be the real travesty. 

He should have to fight the winner of Kampmann vs. Ellenberger before he's allowed anywhere near Condit/St. Pierre.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Don't agree with that Decison. But it was close. Hendricks is a proper hick!


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

A title shot after that? Yea, no.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

I'm getting a little tired of Koscheck. He showed he could take Hendricks down and work him but he doesn't do it til the end of the 3rd? He deserved to lose.


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## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

Pathetic that people are saying it would be a robbery if Kos won. It was a close fight. Not every decision is a robbery.


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## Jumanji (Mar 30, 2011)

I think Hendricks would beat Condit.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Not upset with the decision, but If Hendricks gets a title shot off of that, that would be the real travesty.
> 
> He should have to fight the winner of Kampmann vs. Ellenberger before he's allowed anywhere near Condit/St. Pierre.


They should just give the winner of that fight a title shot because those are the real second and third best WWs in the world.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Not really. Based on the criteria in the unified rules Hendricks clearly won that third round and it'd be outright terrible judging if he lost.


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## VikingKing (Dec 3, 2011)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Hendricks out struck him and got takedowns in the first two rounds, acceptable decision.


What? Kos i think was the better in 1 round.Hendricks took the 2 round but 3 was very even.They booth where bombing eacother with hits..

and Kos got the takedown.But i guess it all deppends on how you see it,if you dont score takedowns then i could see Hendricks as a winner too


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

Glad to see hendricks win but sadly he wont beat condit or gsp


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I thought kos won the fight pretty easily.

I bet on Hendricks and he's on my ffl team.. So I guess I'll let it slide this once


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

VikingKing said:


> What? Kos i think was the better in 1 round.Hendricks took the 2 round but 3 was very even.They booth where bombing eacother with hits..
> 
> and Kos got the takedown.But i guess it all deppends on how you see it,if you dont score takedowns then i could see Hendricks as a winner too


Notice I said the first two, Koscheck clearly won the third but Hendricks was able to drag him down in the first and second. That's probably what won him the fight, that and the control against the fence.


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## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

Question is, where does Kos go from here? He's getting up there in age, and I don't mean maturity: the number of fights he's had are going to start taking larger and larger tolls on him. 

I think everyone is tired of the talk about Fitch, and it just may not make any sense anymore. Maybe Rory to give Rory some experience with strong wrestlers?


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Not really. Based on the criteria in the unified rules Hendricks clearly won that third round and it'd be outright terrible judging if he lost.


This. Kos would have had to do basically get to mount and hurt Hendricks to deserve that round because of the large disparity in damage and striking.


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## VikingKing (Dec 3, 2011)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Notice I said the first two, Koscheck clearly won the third but Hendricks was able to drag him down in the first and second. That's probably what won him the fight, that and the control against the fence.


Seems like the judges didnt give kos any points for that takedown.He took him down yes but didnt really do any damage.

So i guess a takedown itself in this fight didnt score any huh?


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

Its quite astonishing to read ppl actually trying to spin it as if kos won


Roflcopter said:


> Glad to see some judges actually score fights based on the criteria highlighted in the unified rules.
> 
> I thought Hendricks won the 2nd and third rather clearly.


huh how the fuk did hendricks win the 3rd when he spent most of it on his back on the defence? :confused05:


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## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

Sicilian_Esq said:


> Question is, where does Kos go from here? He's getting up there in age, and I don't mean maturity: the number of fights he's had are going to start taking larger and larger tolls on him.
> 
> I think everyone is tired of the talk about Fitch, and it just may not make any sense anymore. Maybe Rory to give Rory some experience with strong wrestlers?


I think he will fight a few more times. But, that eye is always taking damage and swelling these days. Hopefully he's smart enough to retire before some fight causing some major permanent damage to it.


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

the title definitely fades away for Kos. He still has his name so they might give him a "title picture gatekeeper" fight. I'd like to see Kos fighting against Rory Mcdonald.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

The ref broke up the fighters a bit early in the very last clinch "almost" costing Hendricks the win. IMO

Anyways...bye bye Koschek. Down the ladder he goes...


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

VikingKing said:


> Seems like the judges didnt give kos any points for that takedown.He took him down yes but didnt really do any damage.
> 
> So i guess a takedown itself in this fight didnt score any huh?


Takedowns themselves aren't actually supposed to be worth a lot. The reason you can win a lot of fights with wrestling is you avoid the other persons offense. Being brutalized for half a round isn't erased by taking a guy down and never posturing up to land heavy strikes.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

osmium said:


> Takedowns themselves aren't actually supposed to be worth a lot. The reason you can win a lot of fights with wrestling is you avoid the other persons offense. Being brutalized for half a round isn't erased by taking a guy down and never posturing up to land heavy strikes.


Kos did land quite a few strikes on the ground there at the end. But holding a guy against the cage and landing equally ridic strikes I guess counts for more...? I mean certainly Hendricks did it for longer, so there's that.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

VikingKing said:


> Seems like the judges didnt give kos any points for that takedown.He took him down yes but didnt really do any damage.
> 
> So i guess a takedown itself in this fight didnt score any huh?


That's not how fights are supposed to be judged. Fights are judged based on effective offense primarily, aggression and what is basically the equivalent of "ring generalship" in cage control, which is basically how well the fighter excels in what he wants to do.

In the case of the third round, it wasn't a close round that was being edged by a takedown like the 2nd round of say the Castillo-Cholish fight....Hendricks had built a large disparity in the amount of clean hard punches that he landed in the round, he hurt Koscheck and was more effective in the clinch. 

Long story short, one takedown and control with no damage done in the last minute and a half does not offset losing the first 3 and half.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

IMO Kos should retire,
not because he's not elite anymore,
but because that eye won't take many more hits without going all black.
Besides he's filthy rich, so he can hang them...


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

osmium said:


> Takedowns themselves aren't actually supposed to be worth a lot. The reason you can win a lot of fights with wrestling is you avoid the other persons offense. Being brutalized for half a round isn't erased by taking a guy down and never posturing up to land heavy strikes.


Octagon Control, Kos completly controlled it for the better half of that 3rd round. Effective grappling, Kos took him down. What do you mean TD's don't mean much.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

HexRei said:


> Kos did land quite a few strikes on the ground there at the end. But holding a guy against the cage and landing equally ridic strikes I guess counts for more...? I mean certainly Hendricks did it for longer, so there's that.


Well...you answered you own question.

If one guy wins 70 percent of a round and loses the last 30 it makes no sense to give the other guy the round.




Toxic said:


> Octagon Control, Kos completly controlled it for the better half of that 3rd round. Effective grappling, Kos took him down. What do you mean TD's don't mean much.


lol wat...he took him down at the minute and like 40 second mark...pay attention.

That's a marginal part of the round. Especially when you considering Octagon control has some of the least weight when scoring fights.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

HexRei said:


> Kos did land quite a few strikes on the ground there at the end. But holding a guy against the cage and landing equally ridic strikes I guess counts for more...? I mean certainly Hendricks did it for longer, so there's that.


Hendricks easily outlanded Kos by at least 2 to 1 in heavy strikes in that round and hurt him. The takedown and GNP was worth more than the knees from the clinch which are very effective the way Hendricks was using them.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Well...you answered you own question.
> 
> If one guy wins 70 percent of a round and loses the last 30 it makes no sense to give the other guy the round.
> 
> ...


It's a third of the round. And since we use a round by round format rather than Pride-style whole fight scoring, what happened in other rounds doesn't factor into what happens in another given round, just the actual score from it. Which is probably why it was a SD.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

2/3 > 1/3


And I never said anything about other rounds, I was talking about the 3rd specifically.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Octagon Control, Kos completly controlled it for the better half of that 3rd round. Effective grappling, Kos took him down. What do you mean TD's don't mean much.


How do you still not understand that fights aren't judged like a criteria checklist or with all criteria being given equal weight? In essence it is left up to the individual judges to decide how important each criteria is which is absurd. Damage should always be the most important criteria because these are after all fights we are watching.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

That's not true. There is weighted criteria...which is why Hendricks won the fight.

Effective offense + damage > generalship. It's in the Unified rules. Furthermore, it's also specified in the unified rules that effective grappling and effective striking are weighed in order of the amount of "zone time" that the round took place. Therefore, for that exact reason, if one guy lands three bombs on a guy and then proceeds to get taken down, put in side control and outgrappled the whole round, he loses that round....same if a dude leg kicks a guy for 4 minutes then the other guy pulls guard and sweeps him into full mount.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> That's not true. There is weighted criteria...which is why Hendricks won the fight.
> 
> Effective offense + damage > generalship. It's in the Unified rules.


That is how it is supposed to be but there is zero accountability so in actuality they just do whatever the **** they want most of the time.


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## VikingKing (Dec 3, 2011)

I think thats a part of the problem with how judges score.They are not consistent with that.

Some would have scored something for Kos in that takedown while others wouldnt..


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Doesn't really matter. What matters is the right got the decision.


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## VikingKing (Dec 3, 2011)

Roflcopter said:


> Doesn't really matter. What matters is the right got the decision.


Cant agree or disagree with that:thumb02::thumb02:


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> That's not true. There is weighted criteria...which is why Hendricks won the fight.
> 
> Effective offense + damage > generalship. It's in the Unified rules. Furthermore, it's also specified in the unified rules that effective grappling and effective striking are weighed in order of the amount of "zone time" that the round took place. Therefore, for that exact reason, if one guy lands three bombs on a guy and then proceeds to get taken down, put in side control and outgrappled the whole round, he loses that round....same if a dude leg kicks a guy for 4 minutes then the other guy pulls guard and sweeps him into full mount.


Damage is not part of the scoring system under unified rules. In a sense damage can be used to weigh effective striking but outside of that it has no actual merit.


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## VikingKing (Dec 3, 2011)

Toxic said:


> Damage is not part of the scoring system under unified rules. In a sense damage can be used to weigh effective striking but outside of that it has no actual merit.


Good point but still its like playing russian roulette cus you never know how the judges scores.What it should be and how each judge see it its just two different things unfortualy..


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Doesn't really matter. What matters is the right got the decision.


Huh. You think only two out of three judges should have awarded it to Johnny?


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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

Sicilian_Esq said:


> Question is, where does Kos go from here?


Middle Weight. :thumb02:


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Damage is not part of the scoring system under unified rules. In a sense damage can be used to weigh effective striking but outside of that it has no actual merit.



Effective striking is judged by determining the number of legal strikes landed by a contestant *and the significance of such legal strikes.*




As an aside, the problem with the rules the way they are is there isn't much clarity when it comes to striking on the ground.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Didn't think the decision was controversial at all. Had Hendricks winning 2 rounds to 1. Close fight but a clear winner imo.

As usual Koscheck seemed to rely on his over hyped right hand, forgetting he has some of the best takedowns in the division. 

Great win for Hendricks, but I'd still like him to get one more fight before a title shot.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

*Josh Koscheck Felt He Won Split Decision Against Johny Hendricks*



> Josh Koscheck lost a razor-thin split decision to top welterweight contender Johny Hendricks at UFC on Fox 3 on Saturday night. The win furthered Hendricks up the ladder to be next in line to potentially fight the winner of Georges St-Pierre vs. Carlos Condit, but Koscheck really didn’t feel like he lost the fight.
> 
> Some pundits felt that the 35-year-old’s age and number of wars he’s been in would be a factor in New Jersey, but that wasn’t the case. While Koscheck may not have gotten the judges’ nod, it was a very hard fight to score and that’s why the fight ended with the judges in disagreement.
> 
> ...


http://www.mmaweekly.com/josh-koscheck-felt-he-won-split-decision-against-johny-hendricks


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Kos handling it in a good way. Maybe he should consider moving up to MW, or he is going to have to start fighting some newer/less known fighters in WW to work his way back to a title shot.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

cdtcpl said:


> Kos handling it in a good way. Maybe he should consider moving up to MW, or he is going to have to start fighting some newer/less known fighters in WW to work his way back to a title shot.


I don't think he'll ever get another title shot at WW as long as GSP is champ.

He is handling it like a man. Good for him.


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## rebonecrusher (Nov 21, 2011)

Good fight overall very very close as I expected. I thought Koscheck did just enough to earn a decision but I wouldn't say he was robbed as the fight was razor close. I scored the first round for Koscheck, second for Hendricks and third for Koscheck. But the first two rounds were as even as it can get.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

rebonecrusher said:


> Good fight overall very very close as I expected. I thought Koscheck did just enough to earn a decision but I wouldn't say he was robbed as the fight was razor close. I scored the first round for Koscheck, second for Hendricks and third for Koscheck. But the first two rounds were as even as it can get.


This is what I think.

It's the last time I bet against Johnny until he meets GSP.


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## Parky-RFC (Jul 6, 2010)

Koscheck won the 1st and 3rd rounds imo. Wouldn't call it robbery but Koscheck was the fighter being more aggressive and was on the front foot controlling the octagon for the majority of the fight. 

Don't think either of them are a threat to GSP or even Condit.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Good fight, a bit sloppy but great brawl. Judges got it right.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Thought the 1st and 3rd were Koschecks but I don't care for him so I'm not arguing


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Pretty much agreed with the consensus here. I thought round one went to Koscheck. Round two to Hendricks. Round three was tough to score, but I gave it to Koscheck by a hair. Not unhappy with the decision.


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

first round went to koscheck obviously... the eye poke had a significant impact on this round and technically that shouldnt matter unless the ref steps in but the judges may have added this into the equation...

second was an obvious round to hendricks

the third is the most disputed, johnny was outlanding for the first 3+ minutes and then koscheck took him down but failed to do anything but LOOK busy...

personally when i see the fighters standing the whole fight and the guy loosing (by whatever margin) decides to land a takedown in the last few minutes, it means a little less than if they were landing or at least going for takedowns throughout the entire fight...

needless to say i think hendricks won the fight


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## cookiefritas (Jun 17, 2011)

Good fight, I also found Kos to win the 1st and 3rd. It was a close decision, but when you think about it, of the 15 minutes of the fight, Hendricks probably won at least 8 minutes, so he wont the fight overall and did the visual damage.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

As it turns out, Ricardo Almeida was the one who scored the fight in favor of Josh Koscheck.


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## kney (Jan 16, 2012)

I had it 29-28 Koscheck even though I was rooting for Hendricks.


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

I gave the first and second to Hendricks so I'm happy with the decision.


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

Was pulling for Hendrick, but I thought Kos won the first and after he landed that TD I thought that got him the third. It was a close hard fought contest and both guys should be proud of their effort.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Rauno said:


> As it turns out, Ricardo Almeida was the one who scored the fight in favor of Josh Koscheck.


Nothing wrong with that, I had it 29-28 Koscheck myself.


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## systemdnb (Dec 7, 2008)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Nothing wrong with that, I had it 29-28 Koscheck myself.


Ditto. I'm with the "pro" judge here. Kos won 1 and 3 IMO.


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## GoodfellaGr (Aug 16, 2011)

I am so glad that Kos lost!.... again! Of course the wild poke was there in the first round, it's almost classic now. I say kick Kos' ass of the UFC


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