# MMA Fighter dies after Dublin event



## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

> A Portuguese mixed martial arts (MMA) fighter has died after an event in the Republic of Ireland on Saturday.
> Joao Carvalho was taken to hospital after being beaten in a fight at the National Stadium in Dublin by Charlie Ward, a team-mate of UFC champion Conor McGregor.
> The 28-year-old underwent emergency brain surgery and was in a critical condition for 48 hours.
> However, a statement from his Vitor Nobrega team confirmed his death.
> ...


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-36027590


Not good


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Awful news.

Been a bad few weeks for fighting in general. First Nick Blackwell and now this.

Do we have any more information? Weight cutting, lack of medical staff, or just one of those things?


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Yo, Don. Are you familiar with the fighter and details? I would like to know if he was cutting weight heavily or not.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

A few extra details, but nothing about weight cutting, which is what I'm curious about as well. 



> According to the owner of Eventmed, which provided medical support for the TEF event, Carvalho was “walking, talking and smiling” after the fight, but after his condition quickly deteriorated, he was taken to Dublin’s Beaumont Hospital.
> 
> “The doctors checked him between each round, and each time he gave a full response to them,” Eventmed owner Katarzyna Michlic told SevereMMA.com. “He responded to each question. He was asked where he was, what round he was going in to and what day of the week it was, and all of his answers were perfect.
> 
> “When the referee stopped the fight in the third round, our team of doctors and medics looked after him as he was bleeding quite heavily from his nose. He was asked if he felt any pain or was suffering with any headaches directly after the fight, and he said he had no pain or headaches, but he did feel quite tired.”


http://mmajunkie.com/2016/04/portuguese-fighter-joao-carvalho-dies-following-mma-loss


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

It sucks but I won't be shocked if there were no outside influences. It is going to happen eventually, someone is going to take too many blows to the head and not recover. And they will have otherwise been healthy. I don't think there is a single contact sport out there that hasn't had a death in it. It is obviously horrible for this guy and his family but it doesn't mean anything was done wrong.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Not the first MMA death and won't be the last.

Gonna be tough on Ward, I would have a tough time competing after something like this.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

That's the fight Conor said he thought could have been stopped sooner.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> Yo, Don. Are you familiar with the fighter and details? I would like to know if he was cutting weight heavily or not.


No details have come out yet really. But this is gonna have a lot of blowback. The lad who beat his is nicknamed 'Hospital'. 
The press in Ireland are all too ready to jump on MMA as barbaric here, theres in fact more negative then positive about Conor a lot of the time. 

The only thing that could possibly be positive about this is if it was found out he made a big weight cut and as a result proper laws were brought it in to stop weight cutting. That would save future lives and brain damage I think. I guess there'll be an autopsy and the results soon enough...


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

Seems to be a brain injury unrelated to weight cutting, poor bastard was sent to Beaumount aswell, he didnt have a hope.


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## Anteries (Oct 22, 2010)

Poor chap, takes a lot of courage to step into the octagon.


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## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

It was inevitable that an MMA fighter would die shortly after a fight. At least there isn't a controversy due to a late stoppage or a fat bastard, AKA Doodoo5K, being in the cage.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

I don't envy referees, but that looked like way too many undefended shots. I wanted it to stop after 2.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

A good article in response to what happened, hopefully this is the kind of talking that is done as opposed to people asking to ban it

http://www.independent.ie/sport/mma...a-event-with-no-cageside-doctor-34575032.html

It is the best of times and the worst of times for Mixed Martial Arts in Ireland. The best of times for the many who derive real pleasure and pride from the accomplishments of our elite international fighters. It is the worst of times for the hundreds of ordinary Irish MMA fighters who compete in events that are dangerous.
SHARE
There were 16 cage fighting events in Ireland last year. Spectator numbers varied from 200 to 9,000. A few weeks ago, two 17-year-olds fought at an event with no cage-side doctor. In events where doctors are present, the promoters who run these shows choose if they have one doctor or two. They decide. In other words, fighter safety is determined by the commercial promoters.
MMA is not illegal. Unsafe MMA is not illegal. The Health Safety Authority is legally powerless to enforce safety standards for fighters in the cage, although they can act if an employee slips on a wet floor outside the cage.
In reality, the aim of most promotions is to provide a platform for fighters and few make much money. No promoter wants an injured fighter, but safer events cost more money and so there is a clear conflict of interest. A cage-death may change that. The legal retrospectoscope will no doubt be costly for someone.
My innate response is to recoil from intentional brain trauma in sport. Yet I confess that when two men fight, ancient parts of my brain - perhaps amygdala, perhaps hypothalamus - want to know who wins. If we ban MMA, we must ban boxing. Perhaps too cigarettes and obesity since they also cause self-inflicted brain injury, like stroke and dementia. My innate response also recoils at that prospect.
In 1367, the Normans used the Statutes of Kilkenny to ban hurling. They declared "do not, henceforth, use the plays which men call horlings, with great sticks and a ball upon the ground, from which great evils and maims have arisen". The ban didn't work and nowadays the GAA minimises those "great evils and maims" by well-funded safety protocols.
The biggest argument to ban MMA is chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE). CTE typically presents after the athlete has retired from sport. It turns a fast brain into a slow one. The sport that brought joy in an athlete's early life, in middle life brings apathy, depression, impulsivity, substance abuse, and breakdown in social and family relationships. Later, harder neurological signs emerge including amnesia (especially new memory acquisition), slurred speech, and poverty of movement. CTE may affect up to one in five retired professional boxers. The risk in MMA must surely be similar though the sport is too new to know. If MMA remains ungoverned we may never know. And CTE is an issue for rugby and American football. Where to draw the line is unclear to me.
I believe that MMA will never be banned in Ireland. I believe pragmatism should replace choruses of criticism, often well founded. We need constructive solutions to make it safer. The government should have a role. Limbo leaves fighter safety at the whim of commercial promotions.
Michael Watson was a magnificent boxer. In 1991, during a super-middle world title fight against Chris Eubank, he suffered a subdural brain haemorrhage. The inadequacy of safety that night ruined his life. It nearly ended boxing and it financially crippled the British Boxing Board of Control. The final outcome impelled boxing to adopt good governance and significantly reduce risk. There will still be deaths in boxing but fewer avoidable deaths.
Professional boxing now sets the standard in pre-fight assessment and careful aforethought of emergency safety procedures. This was achieved through a strong governing body and proper funding. But it took the destruction of the left side of Michael Watson's brain to achieve this.
Twenty-five years on and MMA needs the same medicine. I cannot overstate how many MMA fighters and coaches have voiced that same view to me. Outside the cage the fighters I know are meticulously attentive to their health. They eat well, they exercise, are disciplined and brave. Last year a nascent governing body was formed by these same people. It is called the Irish Amateur Pankration Association, or IAPA. Pankration, a Greek term for mixed forms of combat, was chosen because the 'MMA' label is toxic to some.
The goal of the IAPA is to submit MMA to accountable governance and take control of safety from commercial promotions. It has set minimal safety standards such as mandatory annual medical examination and blood testing. It has started keeping medical data on individual fighters and enforcing suspension periods for knockout. It runs educational events. In 2015 the IAPA hosted an international health and safety conference, the first of its kind anywhere. That 500 MMA fighters and coaches participated is a powerful demonstration of the desire for change.
But the IAPA is unfunded and lacks status and direction.
I am convinced that we can make MMA safer through funding, governance and mainstreaming. I would like to see the Department of Sport engage at grassroots level. I would like to see Sport Ireland formally recognise its existence. To be consistent with their mission statement "to plan, lead and co-ordinate the sustainable development of competitive and recreational sport in Ireland". In other words, exactly what MMA fighters cry out for.
And it is inconsistent in another way. Although there are no data on the number of MMA fighters in Ireland, it is certainly growing at a faster rate than boxing. Since 2012 the IABA, the amateur boxing equivalent to the IAPA, received €3m in government funding. This funding has made boxing safer. During the same period, MMA received nothing.
Last night, the National Basketball Arena hosted a cage fight where 30 men and two women fought without safety measures commensurate to the risk. This was a commercial promotion and no law was broken. Basketball Ireland has an excellent safety record for their own members. They have invested in proper concussion protocols for that stray nociceptive ball that hits a player's head. They can afford to do so because they are funded by Sport Ireland. For me, there is hypocrisy; cage fighters and basketballers deserve the same.
Professor Dan Healy is expressing his personal views in this article. He is a Consultant Neurologist at Beaumont Hospital and the Royal College of Surgeons. His special interests are genetic disorders of the nervous system and disorders of movement


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## anderton46 (Apr 23, 2010)

McGregor has been quoted by teammates as using this to prove how good his team are, the fact they are so good they can kill. Wow.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

anderton46 said:


> McGregor has been quoted by teammates as using this to prove how good his team are, the fact they are so good they can kill. Wow.


Link?


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

Is it just me thinking that stoppage didn't seem all that late? Relative to some of the absolute beatings we've seen in the UFC before a referee has mercy on the beaten fighter, I don't think this one was even that bad. 

What makes it difficult for referees is judging whether a fighter is actually hurt or not. Not all brain trauma will result in full concussion so how can a referee accurately assess if he needs to stop the fight? The guy was actually defending himself. It's not a binary matter and I don't see much of a problem with this stoppage. 

Maybe fighters need to start tapping when they know they're beat to avoid unnecessary shots? Seems ridiculous because many won't to save face. But then again, whats to stop a normal fight which reaches a decision not resulting in a brain trauma which eventually kills someone?


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

*Charlie Ward's father defends son after MMA fighter death*



> Following the news that Joao Carvalho had died after sustaining head injuries in a fight against his son, Charlie Ward Senior called in RTE's Liveline to defend his son.
> 
> Following the tragic news of the death of Joao Carvalho, who passed away following injuries sustained at an MMA show in Dublin last weekend, the issue of MMA's safety has been brought up again by Irish media outlets. RTE's Joe Duffy, a long-time critic of MMA, once again called for the sport to be banned amid numerous calls from outraged listeners.
> 
> ...


http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2016/4/1...nds-son-after-mma-death-joao-carvalho-tef-mma


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Had to hear my sensei today saying "I told you that sooner or later someone would die from MMA" yet a month ago he's bitching that they have all these extra rules in place now.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Hiro said:


> Is it just me thinking that stoppage didn't seem all that late? Relative to some of the absolute beatings we've seen in the UFC before a referee has mercy on the beaten fighter, I don't think this one was even that bad.
> 
> What makes it difficult for referees is judging whether a fighter is actually hurt or not. Not all brain trauma will result in full concussion so how can a referee accurately assess if he needs to stop the fight? The guy was actually defending himself. It's not a binary matter and I don't see much of a problem with this stoppage.
> 
> Maybe fighters need to start tapping when they know they're beat to avoid unnecessary shots? Seems ridiculous because many won't to save face. But then again, whats to stop a normal fight which reaches a decision not resulting in a brain trauma which eventually kills someone?


Seemed late to me, but I watched in hindsight. 9 shots with his hands on the ground. seems he could have jumped in after a couple. 

Guy's on his back hands up, that's one thing. But a guy is rocked and taking shots to the side of the head, all fours? Seems 9 shots is way too many.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Calminian said:


> Seemed late to me, but I watched in hindsight. 9 shots with his hands on the ground. seems he could have jumped in after a couple.
> 
> Guy's on his back hands up, that's one thing. But a guy is rocked and taking shots to the side of the head, all fours? Seems 9 shots is way too many.



So do you feel Neil Magny should have been stopped against Hector Lombard?


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> So do you feel Neil Magny should have been stopped against Hector Lombard?


No, in fact that's the fight I was thinking of. He would take a shot and cover up really well, on the ground on this back. He was really hurt, but I think the ref. got it right on that one, from what I remember. 

In fact, even in Lesnar vs. Carwin, you had a guy hurt but covering up well. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dogmatic. We're talking about just a few seconds to make a decision. Just from what I saw, 9 unanswered shots, with no covering, to the side of the head seemed way too many. And these were monster shots. Lot of power can be generated from that angle.

Again, these are tough calls. As the sport evolves, they may make changes based on this case, depending on what they find out in the aftermath. Could be the guy had a preexisting condition. I'm not saying I'm right. I might be dead wrong on this.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

Calminian said:


> Seemed late to me, but I watched in hindsight. 9 shots with his hands on the ground. seems he could have jumped in after a couple.
> 
> Guy's on his back hands up, that's one thing. But a guy is rocked and taking shots to the side of the head, all fours? Seems 9 shots is way too many.


I've seen plenty of fighters take shots on all fours and then move/roll and continue fighting. Pretty sure I've even see guys stand up from that position while still getting hit.

There's been so much worse, it's a bit of a freak incident really.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Calminian said:


> No, in fact that's the fight I was thinking of. He would take a shot and cover up really well, on the ground on this back. He was really hurt, but I think the ref. got it right on that one, from what I remember.
> 
> In fact, even in Lesnar vs. Carwin, you had a guy hurt but covering up well.
> 
> ...


He took more shots than the guy in the video though...from all fours. 

Neither is bad to me. Both were close but I felt the ref made the right decision in both.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> He took more shots than the guy in the video though...from all fours.
> 
> Neither is bad to me. Both were close but I felt the ref made the right decision in both.


I don't remember it being the same, but I'd have to rewatch.


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