# How do you see Housey vs Rolm playing out?



## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

These are the main scenarios on my mind.

#1 Ronda comes out and bum rushes. Ronda via Ronda smash in 5 seconds.

#2 Holly Holm oblique kicks Ronda's knee backwards similar to how Jon Jones kicked Rampage's knee. Ronda hobbles on one leg and never gets close enough to judo toss, armbar or land punches. Holly Holm wins.

#3 Holly Holm runs for 5 rounds throwing kicks never allowing Ronda to get close enough to land punches. Ronda doesn't know what to do because she has only had a boxing coach, she's never had a well rounded striking coach that trained her to deal with kicks. Holm wins a controversial decision.

Holly Holm is taller and has a slight reach advantage. Jackson-wink have shown they're very good at implementing gameplans where talller rangier strikers use movement to keep shorter opponents at bay.

I'm wondering if Ronda is in over her head here.


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## GlassJaw (Sep 21, 2012)

I think Ronda gets close enough to get Holm to the ground and wins fairly easily. Camps are important, but you can't just judge a fighter based off of their camp. Holm hasn't shown anything in the octagon that makes me think she can stop a Rousey takedown let alone a submission. The one real strength Holm has is that she doesn't move forward and get into grappling range, but Ronda moves forward constantly so she'll catch her at the fence at some point.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Rousey smash in 45 seconds, unfortunately


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

There is no scenario where Holm wins other than Rousey getting fluke injured. And even thrn I think she would fight through it and win anyway.

Ronda will easily close distance. Throw her down. And sub her with ease.

Holm hasnt impressed me at all. These promos do a good job of making Holm look like she is capable of someyhing here.

Holm has no chance what so ever.

Holm hasnt finiahed bums. You think she can jab and run for 5 rounds and be awarded a decision? Lol....

No chance.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

There's more chance of Holm winning this fight than saying "Housey" ever being even mildly entertaining.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Rousey via KO 1st or 2nd. Nowadays she doesn't go for a TD unless her opponent tries to avoid the brawl and goes for the clinch.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

This is from Feddie Roach....a boxing guy...




> "Holly was *a good *boxer," Roach said of Holm, who meets Ronda Rousey in the main event of Saturday's UFC 193 in Australia. *"She beat some good fighters, maybe they were a little older when she fought them*, Mia St. John, but, she *has some *good wins."





> "[Rousey's] not the best in the world [at boxing], but she's good, she's very competitive, she tries really hard," said Roach. "It's probably not the best thing she does, she probably better at ground game, but again, she's more experienced there. *Her boxing is good, the girl she's fighting is a good boxer also. When they stand up it will be a good fight* but when it goes to the ground she's going to destroy her."


Literally, Holm has no chance. 

To split decisioning Rachel Pennington to beating Ronda Rousey. Yea not happening.

Ronda is -1900 right now. And that is a steal.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Holm should be able to last a couple rounds running away and just jabbing. She'll be afraid to throw a kick. She'll start getting booed and eventually throw a kick, Ronda will catch and take her down and sub her in about 30 seconds once it hits the ground. 
Saying that I'm probably giving holm too much credit on her footwork!


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

If Holm was good enough at running and jabbing, I'd give her a chance. She has a tendency to go for a shot, tie up and that's when Ronda kills her.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

I love Joe Rogan, but if he acts as if he's in awe of RRR fighting ability after she beats the latest can, I'll....

I'll...

I'll.....

Well I'll be very upset


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> Holm should be able to last a couple rounds running away and just jabbing. She'll be afraid to throw a kick. She'll start getting booed and eventually throw a kick, Ronda will catch and take her down and sub her in about 30 seconds once it hits the ground.
> Saying that I'm probably giving holm too much credit on her footwork!


I wonder if Ronda trains with kickboxers or people capable of throwing kicks. It seems like everytime there's footage of Ronda sparring its always with pure boxers, never kickboxers, karate ppl, muay thai specialists or anyone from a kicking background.

Edmond Tarverdyan being mainly a pure boxing coach, I wonder if he knows how to catch a kick.

Jake Ellenberger and Gegard Mousasi are two UFC fighters Edmond currently coaches, both of them were finished via kicks. Shayna Baszler was hurt with leg kicks and finished when Edmond was coaching her.

One might say Edmond has a history of coaching people who get finished by kicks. Maybe Edmond doesn't know how to train defense against kicking techniques. It is possible Ronda only spars with pure boxers, she doesn't train enough with kickboxers to defend against kicking techniques.

There could be a hole in Ronda's game there that can be exploited.


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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

I think Rousey will win like everybody else here. But I would love for Holly to give us some suprises in this fight even if she loses.

The promotion has gotten so gagworthy and exxagerated that I want Rousey to be humbled in the worst way. I used to feel that way about Jon Jones but not anymore. Jon Jones is legit world class demolishing other legit world class fighters. Ronda Rousey demolishing soccer moms is impressive, but calling her the greatest fighter in the world? Please... :sarcastic12:


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Spite said:


> I love Joe Rogan, but if he acts as if he's in awe of RRR fighting ability after she beats the latest can, I'll....
> 
> I'll...
> 
> ...


You...

you are...

you are so...



British!

:thumb02:


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

I do actually see a way for Holm to win, it requires her running around the outside of the jab letting Ronda chase her, whiff with punches and counter anything she does with exactly 1 jab before moving again. 

Let her get tired, nobody can fight at her dumb pace for 5 rounds. Kick at her legs, slow her footwork down... then jab your way to the most boring win in UFC history. 

That said... one mistake, one slip, one over eager combination, one failure of special awareness that equals her running into the cage and Ronda has her, she will get that hip in and Holm will be submitted shortly after. 




DonRifle said:


> She'll be afraid to throw a kick.


Don't see why....Rhonda's game has never been about grabbing a leg for a takedown, she needs to get close and clinch up, kicking her while she is trying to do that seems like a good idea.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Trix said:


> I wonder if Ronda trains with kickboxers or people capable of throwing kicks. It seems like everytime there's footage of Ronda sparring its always with pure boxers, never kickboxers, karate ppl, muay thai specialists or anyone from a kicking background.
> 
> Edmond Tarverdyan being mainly a pure boxing coach, I wonder if he knows how to catch a kick.
> 
> ...


You'd have to think she's trained avoiding head kicks. Holms only real finishing weapon isn't it? She doesn't load her punches. I wouldn't be much of a fan of Edmond but surely there is someone in her gym helping her on head kicks. 
Correct me if Im wrong but I think Mousassi trained with a lot of dutch kickboxers so he knows how to defend that stuff. Hall is just one of those guys that could do it to anyone once he decides not to be a bitch for 3 rounds and actually fight with some venom. 
I'd be very surprised if shes get caught, but I guess there is a chance there. Can you imagine Ronda getting ko'd by a head kick lol, womens MMA would turn on its head!


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Joabbuac said:


> I do actually see a way for Holm to win, it requires her running around the outside of the jab letting Ronda chase her, whiff with punches and counter anything she does with exactly 1 jab before moving again.
> 
> Let her get tired, nobody can fight at her dumb pace for 5 rounds. Kick at her legs, slow her footwork down... then jab your way to the most boring win in UFC history.
> 
> ...


Yea because she has looked capable of that. Have you watched her fights in the UFC? 

People act like Holm is some all time great boxer. From what I gather her career is much overrated by the UFC. In a very thin womens boxing arena. 

From what I have seen in the UFC in MMA woild show that as well.

Again dhe went 3 round split with Pennington....a short....slow.....not technical.....brawler.....didnt they clinch up a few times? 

We saw how 45 year old Randy vs Toney went did we not? And Toney at least had some hand power to be afraid of a random 1 shot KO. Holm does not.

It is a squash match. But UFC hype machine can make people think Holm actually has something for Ronda. 

Holm isnt top 5 in a very sad division. A division where the next best girl isnt half the fighter Ronda is.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

She has absolutely looked capable of using footwork and movement, throwing jabs and leg kicks. She is not great boxer, she had a very simplistic boxing style that is incredibly unsuited to MMA... But she is athletic and intelligent enough not to just run right at Ronda, not comparable to James Toney as she has made an effort to learn as many aspects of MMA as she can. 

Anyway... i thought i made it pretty clear that it would have to be the perfect storm for Holm to have any chance to exploit Ronda's low IQ and get a win.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Joabbuac said:


> She has absolutely looked capable of using footwork and movement, throwing jabs and leg kicks. She is not great boxer, she had a very simplistic boxing style that is incredibly unsuited to MMA... But she is athletic and intelligent enough not to just run right at Ronda, not comparable to James Toney as she has made an effort to learn as many aspects of MMA as she can.
> 
> Anyway... i thought i made it pretty clear that it would have to be the perfect storm for Holm to have any chance to exploit Ronda's low IQ and get a win.


Ronda's low IQ?

She has looked like she has movement vs who? Pennington a flat footed brawler can with no real TD threat? Lol

Holm has better footwork than most all of these part time fighters in the division. But not enough to stay away from an animal like Ronda fot much more than a half a round. 

We got many people saying she would beat Mayweather by grabbibg him slamming him and sybbibg him. But Holm is anywhere able to stay away? 

If andre ward got in a cage with Weidman we would all expect Weidman to grab him and do what he wants. Doesnt matter how good your footwork is in mma.....you cant just run for 5 rounds.

Condit was the closest thing vs Diaz. And Diaz is a flat footed boxer who no real explosion. Ronda is an animal, who will find you and take you down like tou are a child.

Holm is not Condit as well.

Honestly Holm has much more of a chance to find a kick KO than run away for 5 rounds. 

Ronda has much more of a chance at KOing Holm than Holm does KOing her.

Roach a boxing guy isnt even willibg to call her anymore than a good boxer. He even sort of takes a shot at her flimsy record.kind of like saying wait I know Holm is played up by thr UFC but she isnt some beast of a boxer to do it.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Every time Holm through anything of substance, she ended up in the clinch (which she tried to break from when it happened). I reckon it'll be the same with Rousey.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

I can't argue about this with you Johnny, i already think Holm has a really tiny chance... You say she has zero chance, its not like we are even disagreeing about anything substantial here.



ClydebankBlitz said:


> Every time Holm through anything of substance, she ended up in the clinch (which she tried to break from when it happened). I reckon it'll be the same with Rousey.


An observation i have made before also... and the most likely outcome of this fight. She will be trying to fight against an instinctual habit she has had for her entire career.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Joabbuac said:


> I can't argue about this with you Johnny, i already think Holm has a really tiny chance... You say she has zero chance, its not like we are even disagreeing about anything substantial here.
> 
> 
> 
> An observation i have made before also... and the most likely outcome of this fight. She will be trying to fight against an instinctual habit she has had for her entire career.


In your original post I quoted you may say one mistake and she gets subbed. But you go thru a laundry list of things that you seem to think she is capable of. Then you say she absolutely has the footwork to do it. So you sound like you are goving her more chance than you are willing to concede but maybe not.

Even if Holm fights perfect I dont see her winning unless Ronda also fight crappy. 

It would be like Condit decisioning GSP. Yea he may jab and kick from distance. Hell at least he has 1 shot power. But he isnt going to stay away from GSP for 5 rounds. And at least he had a great chance to survive on the ground vs the blanket and with his solid guard. Holm has no chance once she gives up 1 takedown.

Just sounds like you think Holm has all this ability. But I guess if you think she has a lotto chance then yeah I guess there is nothibg to discuss.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Holm's only chance is to fight like I would if I woke up and found myself inside a cage with prime Bob Sapp.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> She has looked like she has movement vs who? Pennington a flat footed brawler can with no real TD threat? Lol


Holm looked much improved in her 2nd fight in the UFC against Marion Reneau.

http://bestinmma.blogspot.com/2015/08/holly-holm-vs-marion-reneau-ufc-fight.html

I think Reneau only got the clinch 3-4 times & she was looking for it the entire fight.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Trix said:


> Holm looked much improved in her 2nd fight in the UFC against Marion Reneau.
> 
> http://bestinmma.blogspot.com/2015/08/holly-holm-vs-marion-reneau-ufc-fight.html
> 
> I think Reneau only got the clinch 3-4 times & she was looking for it the entire fight.


Yea a 38 year old one dimensional BJJ player. Should that be an accomplishment. 

They set her up with tailor made opponents and she still looks scared to really commit. She even lost a round on 1 judges scorecard in a stand up r
Fight. I remember this fight.....she was up against an old bjj player who in no way even looked like she wanted to take Holm down. Talk about teeing one up for her to look good.

It is like giving Frankie Edgar props for showing good footwork vs Yahya or something.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> In your original post I quoted you may say one mistake and she gets subbed. But you go thru a laundry list of things that you seem to think she is capable of. Then you say she absolutely has the footwork to do it. So you sound like you are goving her more chance than you are willing to concede but maybe not.
> 
> Even if Holm fights perfect I dont see her winning unless Ronda also fight crappy.
> 
> ...


Well... if Holm fights perfect Ronda will never get her to the ground, Ronda's takedowns are all about getting extremely close. 

Ronda will try to rush in (because of her Low fight IQ), Holm might not have great KO power but you can bet if she hits Ronda clean with a counter it will stop Ronda in her tracks... she will not be able to just walk through straight counters. 

A jab, for example, rarely knocks people out, but does it stop people walking in? You bet it does. 

But as we have both said, if Ronda gets her down... the fight is done, Holm has nowhere near the experience to avoid being submitted. You see, I do have a laundry list of what Holm does right... but i have a much bigger one full of all her flaws and weaknesses. 

I think a better prediction i could make is that Holm will last longer than Ronda's last 4 opponents combined. Which is just over 2 mins :laugh:


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Joabbuac said:


> Well... if Holm fights perfect Ronda will never get her to the ground, Ronda's takedowns are all about getting extremely close.
> 
> Ronda will try to rush in (because of her Low fight IQ), Holm might not have great KO power but you can bet if she hits Ronda clean with a counter it will stop Ronda in her tracks... she will not be able to just walk through straight counters.
> 
> ...


She has low fight IQ because she rushes in and beats her opponents in 20 seconds? 8 dont even get what you mean? So it would be smarter to stay away and let her opponents get going? Makes no sense. How can a fightet who is undefeated....who beats her opponents in round 1 most always....have poor fight IQ? So she should stay at range with a kickboxer who has reach? Who has no short range KO power at all? I have no idea what you are talking about here?

If Holm fights perfect yes Ronda will touch her. There is no womens fighter on the planet who is stopping Ronda from getting close to her. They are in a cage not a pasture. 

You really think Holm has amazing footwork and boxing? I think you have been fooled.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Her fight IQ was well represented when she runs across the cage with no feeling out process or head movement, throwing wild technical and eating punches from a huge underdog whos only chance to win was from a lucky punch, a girl with only enough power when aided by the momentum of somebody running at them like a headless chicken. She also consistently gives up good positions on the ground going for armbars. 

Is any of this good fight IQ? Is fight IQ measured on being able to brute force seriously under skilled fighters? A bad fight IQ generally means giving up good positions/advantages situations to do something that gives the other fighter more of a chance to win. Ronda does that constantly...


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Seriously, how can we even know where Ronda's fight IQ stands if the gap between her and the others is so abysmal?
She does what she wants because she can and doesn't give a damn what these girls will throw at her. She is just confident and I can't blame her.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Yea a 38 year old one dimensional BJJ player. Should that be an accomplishment.
> 
> They set her up with tailor made opponents and she still looks scared to really commit. She even lost a round on 1 judges scorecard in a stand up r
> Fight. I remember this fight.....she was up against an old bjj player who in no way even looked like she wanted to take Holm down. Talk about teeing one up for her to look good.


Well. This is what I see in Holm's fight with Reneau. I don't know why I'm bothering to type this out, must have too much time on my hands.  Link if anyone wants to watch. http://bestinmma.blogspot.com/2015/08/holly-holm-vs-marion-reneau-ufc-fight.html

*1. Holm isn't fighting to impress anyone or earn finishes, she's using her fights in the UFC as tune up fights to prepare for Ronda.* If you watch Holm's UFC fights she shows her gameplan for Ronda, more on that below.

*2. In Holm's fight with Reneau, Reneau is almost never in punching range on in a position for anyone to land punches on her*. Holm is cutting angles and throwing a ton of kicks from a distance. I think its deliberately gameplanned to prep for Ronda, to take advantage of Ronda only training boxing and never throwing kicks. 

*3. Holm's kicks are fast and look powerful*. She lands only 3 or 4 kicks from her lead leg on Reneau's lead leg and what Holm hits is showing visible damage. Those body kicks, side kicks look like they have an effect. The damage Holm does with only 2-4 leg kicks from her lead leg is a lot more than what Carlos Condit did to Nick Diaz's leg when they fought.

*4. Holm lands head kicks from her lead and rear leg*. If Ronda is only training pure boxing and not familiar with blocking head kicks from lead and rear legs she could have problems with that.

*5. Holm shows the oblique kick to the knee Jon Jones uses a few times in the fight*. She doesn't throw it to land with power, she just throws it out there from a distance as if she's trying to get comfortable using it in a real fight, under pressure. Its possible she's saving it for Ronda.

*6. Holm looks strong in the clinch.* No one has come close to getting Holm to the ground, she's made everyone who has tried to get her down look weak in comparison. Holm may not have Cyborg's impressive physique, but at 5'8, being big for the weight class she could have similar strength and power in the clinch and be tough to get down.

*7. Holm lands cleanly to the legs, body and head*. From my perspective all Holm has to do is land to Ronda's legs to hamper her mobility and Holm has this fight won, she can pick Ronda apart from a distance where she has the advantage.

If you take the points listed above and the ones I can't think of right now, maybe it forms a decent outline of the strategy Holm plans to use against Ronda. It shows some of the reasons why Holm might have a decent chance of pulling the upset.

I don't care how it plays out as long as Holm doesn't do the extremely dumb thing Miesha did where she ran straight into Ronda's clinch and got thrown repeatedly, I'll be happy with the outcome.



Joabbuac said:


> A bad fight IQ generally means giving up good positions/advantages situations to do something that gives the other fighter more of a chance to win. Ronda does that constantly...


She does.

Another example of Ronda deliberately giving up a good position... In the Liz Carmouche fight, Ronda turned in the clinch and gave Carmouche her back trying to setup a judo throw. Carmouche took Ronda's back and sunk in a neck crank.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Joabbuac said:


> Her fight IQ was well represented when she runs across the cage with no feeling out process or head movement, throwing wild technical and eating punches from a huge underdog whos only chance to win was from a lucky punch, a girl with only enough power when aided by the momentum of somebody running at them like a headless chicken. She also consistently gives up good positions on the ground going for armbars.
> 
> Is any of this good fight IQ? Is fight IQ measured on being able to brute force seriously under skilled fighters? A bad fight IQ generally means giving up good positions/advantages situations to do something that gives the other fighter more of a chance to win. Ronda does that constantly...


When you know your poor opponent cant match anything you do....yes it is.

Eats shots? Like what 7 in her career? GSP ate shots vs Serra....about 7 of them. 

Did Anderson Silva have bad IQ for his long reign as champ that made him thr p4p goat??

When you gameplan to do something. Do it and win....I think it is asinine to call it bad IQ just because it isnt the absolue safest way to approach a fight. 

So if she doesnt bum rush Holm....waits on it and gets head kick KOd you would then say well at least she displayed good fight iq? 

What in the hell am I reading?


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

I find the notion that Ronda doesn't train all aspects of MMA extremely unlikely. She has the money, and the backing from the UFC hype machine, to get her the best coaches in the world. I really doubt that the entire coaching staff, UFC brass, Ronda, and her entire entourage forgot about kicks. If so she needs to fire her manager.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Ill think about Trix and Joab when Ronda bum rushes Holm.....Holm in no way shape or form can get out of the way. Gets sub'd in 1 minute.

Im sure they will be explaining to the forum that Holm fidnt fight up to her ability and Ronda was foolish for dominating her so quickly.

If a slipped Judo toss and a few punchea landed on her is "bad fight IQ" then there isnt a single lady in mma who has "good fight IQ". Probably not a single fighter with good iq if we are holding those standards.

You act like getting punched in the face when your opponent is trying to punch you in the face means you have bad fight IQ....haha...


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Joabbuac said:


> Ronda will try to rush in (because of her Low fight IQ), Holm might not have great KO power but you can bet if she hits Ronda clean with a counter it will stop Ronda in her tracks... she will not be able to just walk through straight counters.
> 
> A jab, for example, rarely knocks people out, but does it stop people walking in? You bet it does.


Ronda can walk right through Holly's punches since there's no power behind them because the mechanics are all wrong. Holm's stance has her weight forward and her body turned towards her opponent, she can't get good weight transfer or body torque into her punches, it's mostly pushed with the arms & shoulders with no real weight behind them. She can't step into her punches because her weight is already forward, and she can't torque into them either since her body's already turned.

If you want to see proper punching mechanics, go look at Joanna Jedrzeczyck or Hisae Watanabe. Joanna's punches are crisper & cleaner, but Watanabe faceplants opponents with one punch.









As for jabs stopping people in their tracks, yes, and no. It does if you have a hard stiff jab like GSP or Joanna, both of whom can snap their opponent's heads back with jab, and are fast & accurate enough to land it consistently. Holly doesn't have a jab like that, not even close.

Holly has 2 good weapons; her lead leg sidekick is fast & lands well, and her left round kick has good power on it when she gets a chance to use it. Problem is the sidekick is likely the only one she'll have a chance to throw since Ronda will be crowding her space from the opening bell. She needs to sidekick the knee & circle off until Ronda stops charging in, then wreck the leg some more & try to setup a left high kick. That's her best chance, but honestly, I can't see her pulling it off.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Ape City said:


> I find the notion that Ronda doesn't train all aspects of MMA extremely unlikely. She has the money, and the backing from the UFC hype machine, to get her the best coaches in the world. I really doubt that the entire coaching staff, UFC brass, Ronda, and her entire entourage forgot about kicks. If so she needs to fire her manager.


AFAIK, the only striking coach Ronda has is a boxing coach. Ronda has never worked with a kickboxing, muay thai, karate or striking coach that specializes in any discipline other than boxing. Ronda trains with a lot of different judo, wrestling, jiu jitsu coaches and teachers... But when it comes to striking, I think Edmond is the only coach she has.

It seems like Ronda only spars with pure boxers. There's no footage or reports of Ronda bringing in kickboxers, karate experts, muay thai boxers that I know of. The only thing coming out of Ronda's gym is... "Ronda did well sparring against this boxer or that boxer." There are never names of people involved in any sport other than boxing that Ronda is reported to spar with on a regular basis. If Ronda only trains with boxers it could mean her defense against kicking techniques is more limited than the average MMA fighter. 



jonnyg4508 said:


> Ill think about Trix and Joab when Ronda bum rushes Holm.....Holm in no way shape or form can get out of the way. Gets sub'd in 1 minute..


A lot of those finishes were almost self inflicted. If Ronda were a train some of the girls Ronda fought practically threw themselves on the tracks.

Miesha enjoyed clinching with Ronda and being thrown so much she did it repeatedly until she got armbarred.

Cat Zingano threw herself into a clinch/armbar combo from a flying knee like a starving man sprinting after mcdonald's coupons.

Bethe Corriea made fun of the fact that Ronda's dad committed suicide, as if angering her opponent who is superior in every discipline were some stroke of genius.

Ronda's previous opponents have made a mockery of their division with their "ingenious gameplans" that wouldn't make it into a MMA for dummies book.

I doubt Holm can do any worse than her predecessors, but if Holm somehow manages to do worse than Miesha and friends I won't mind too much. But I might have to give up on Ronda's division if that happens.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Only one who really "jumped in the way of the train" was Zingano. The rest just didnt have thr ability to get out of the way. Or in Tate's case is a wrestler at heart. 

Im not saying Holm wont fight smart. Im just saying I dont think there is a woman out there who can footwork around Ronda for 5 rounds. Holm had better footwork than most....but that will not be enough. 

If all it took was footwork to stay away from wrestlers and clinchers then more fighters would be upping their boxing movement. Randy could go clinch anyone. Bones can clinch anyone. Weidman can go find anyone. GSP could take down anyone. 

It is simple to say Holm shoulf just use her footwork and circle away for 25 whole minutes. Thats all fine and dandy when fighting cans. I think that is asking a bit much against an athlete and fighter like Ronda. 

When you can walk through the entire divisions punches....it is rather easy to find the clinch. 

Holm may hold a different skillset than other girls.....but in no way is some elite prospect with all the tools to deal with Ronda. 

Maybe it is just what I see.....but it is almost impossible to stay away and on the outside in mma for an entire fight. You have to float around like Frankie Edgar. And even hr has found his chin caught several times when trying to play the cat and mouse game.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Ill think about Trix and Joab when Ronda bum rushes Holm.....Holm in no way shape or form can get out of the way. Gets sub'd in 1 minute.


I said this was the most likely outcome... think about it all you want.



aerius said:


> Ronda can walk right through Holly's punches since there's no power behind them because the mechanics are all wrong. Holm's stance has her weight forward and her body turned towards her opponent, she can't get good weight transfer or body torque into her punches, it's mostly pushed with the arms & shoulders with no real weight behind them. She can't step into her punches because her weight is already forward, and she can't torque into them either since her body's already turned.
> 
> If you want to see proper punching mechanics, go look at Joanna Jedrzeczyck or Hisae Watanabe. Joanna's punches are crisper & cleaner, but Watanabe faceplants opponents with one punch.
> 
> ...



I coincide the point on her jab, she kinda flicks it. I was using it was more of an example on how someone with low power can create some stopping power if the other fighter is walking in. Her straight is a better counter shot for her, throw it then swivel off on the same side... it will knock Ronda back if she is bull rushing with her head in the air. Gotta give Ronda a good reason not to rush in.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Maybe it is just what I see.....but it is almost impossible to stay away and on the outside in mma for an entire fight. You have to float around like Frankie Edgar. And even hr has found his chin cauggt several time when trying to play the cat and mouse game.


Let's not forget the great Kalib Starnes and his masterful use of the backpedal.

But seriously, Cruz, Mighty Mouse, and Dillishaw are the only ones I can think of who can keep the range open that well and limit exchanges. And even then, they'll use their wrestling & clinch work to mix things up and keep their opponents guessing.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

aerius said:


> Let's not forget the great Kalib Starnes and his masterful use of the backpedal.
> 
> But seriously, Cruz, Mighty Mouse, and Dillishaw are the only ones I can think of who can keep the range open that well and limit exchanges. And even then, they'll use their wrestling & clinch work to mix things up and keep their opponents guessing.


And MM is thr fastest in division. And the other 2 are probably fastest at 135. Those guys literally do not stop moving. It is like they are lightly bouncing around a trampoline. 

Plus all have good wrestling and are good strikers. 

Perhaps Holm can try to match their bounce and speed. But from thr fights I have watched she has shown nothing close to that.....vs much lesser opponents. I mean Holm had FOught Pennington a flat footed midget brawler......and a 38 year old bjj can. Not exactly athletes in thr sense of Ronda or those mens weights.


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## JASONJRF (Nov 3, 2009)

LOL @ this. If anyone thinks Holmes has a chance in hell well... I pitty you as an MMA fan. Holmes despite the great episode leading up to the fight, has no chance. None at all. She isn't the greatest threat to Ronda. Cyborg, Amanda Nunes, and Tate are all bigger threats in that order. Anyone else in the divison has Zero Chance. Honda is a beast. Leaps and Bounds beyond the comp.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> Seriously, how can we even know where Ronda's fight IQ stands if the gap between her and the others is so abysmal?
> She does what she wants because she can and doesn't give a damn what these girls will throw at her. She is just confident and I can't blame her.


You do blame Silva for his behaviour in the Bonnar fight though


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

I see Ronda wanting to stand and bang, then she gets tagged and wobbled so she gets Holm to the floor and finishes with a sub...probably in the 1st round.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I always want to cheer for the underdog. It's like a genetic defect or something I can't help it. It's why I came to love this sport in the first place. watching skinny little Royce Gracie school those tuff guys at ufc1 was a life changing event for me. It was almost like seeing oscar de lahoya Ko Mike tyson. so...with all that said...

I'm hoping Holly can establish some distance, survive the first minute storm we all know is coming and land some good straight rights as ronda closes. Holly lights her up good with one of those rights and ronda freezes just long enough to land the biggest head kick in WMMA History!!





..











....yeah that's it.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

UFC are rushing this fight while Holm is still undefeated. Holm would lose to any of the 135 top 10. I wouldn't rank Holm in the top 10.

Holm hasn't faced anyone even with Zingano/Nunes/McMann's level of ground game, she'd be a fish out of water if Rousey takes her down.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Voiceless said:


> You do blame Silva for his behaviour in the Bonnar fight though


Of course, and we all know what happened next...
You don't see Ronda allowing people to hit her at will, with her arms down to her waist, never mentioning playing the "knee jerk, look away" dance.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> Of course, and we all know what happened next...
> You don't see Ronda allowing people to hit her at will, with her arms down to her waist, never mentioning playing the "knee jerk, look away" dance.


Tell your fellow Brazilian Silva that I'm still sad and disappoint. I was not imbressed by his performans!


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

This is the biggest mismatch since... GSP Serra or Penn Edgar. If the fight goes 45 seconds I'll be shocked. It's like going from a semi decent minor leaguer to last game of the majors in the playoffs. The skill jump will be impossible to adapt to, I've spent longer typing this than the fight will take.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

rabakill said:


> This is the biggest mismatch since... GSP Serra or Penn Edgar. If the fight goes 45 seconds I'll be shocked. It's like going from a semi decent minor leaguer to last game of the majors in the playoffs. The skill jump will be impossible to adapt to, I've spent longer typing this than the fight will take.


You over exaggerate so much.

Yeah cause a world boxing champion with an undefeated record.....is as bad as Cody McKenzie?


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

rabakill said:


> This is the biggest mismatch since... GSP Serra or Penn Edgar.


I don't know what you mean??? clever sarcasm? 

It kind of depends on which GSP vs Serra and which Edgar Penn......

Holly has as much of a chance as Serra or Frankie did in their first fights.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> You over exaggerate so much.
> 
> Yeah cause a world boxing champion with an undefeated record.....is as bad as Cody McKenzie?


James Toney was a boxing champ of exponentially higher callibre than Holm, look what a takedown specialist did. Her record means nothing, I knew Nick Ring while he was undefeated. Chilled with him in the gym, he knew he'd never be champ.



oldfan said:


> I don't know what you mean??? clever sarcasm?
> 
> It kind of depends on which GSP vs Serra and which Edgar Penn......
> 
> Holly has as much of a chance as Serra or Frankie did in their first fights.


and the second ones? Don't be obtuse, it's a sign of low intelligence. If you don't know what obtuse means you should look it up.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

rabakill said:


> This is the biggest mismatch since... GSP Serra or Penn Edgar. If the fight goes 45 seconds I'll be shocked. It's like going from a semi decent minor leaguer to last game of the majors in the playoffs. The skill jump will be impossible to adapt to, I've spent longer typing this than the fight will take.


Somewhat of a false comparison, both GSP and Penn had lost before they fought Serra and Edgar. Right now Ronda's peaking so this would be a Coleman/Smith level upset. That might be the key to beating Ronda, Smith let Coleman unload on him for 15 minutes and then came back and won the fight in overtime. I can see Ronda punching herself out at some point it's just an issue of is this it.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

oldfan said:


> I don't know what you mean??? clever sarcasm?
> 
> It kind of depends on which GSP vs Serra and which Edgar Penn......
> 
> Holly has as much of a chance as Serra or Frankie did in their first fights.


She really doesnt. She has shown zero finishing power and her 1 strength is striking. 

Serra had some hands and was a bjj guy. Frankie had speed, cardio, and wrestling. 

She is a much bigger dog on the books than either of those guys were as well.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Well, call me crazy but I think Holm has some of the best striking if not the best striking at 135. There's a huge difference between Holly Holm and Julianna Pena, Jessica Eye or Miesha Tate. Holm is capable of fighting intelligently and using whatever strategy works best. Pena, Eye, Tate and a lot of the others fight more on raw emotion and instinct and are kind of like one dimensional brawlers, they don't have as much of a fight IQ. That makes Holm much more dangerous in some ways.

People are underestimating Holm. If Holm had a few more fights in the UFC I think she would break into the top 3. Criticizing Holm for her fight with Racquel Pennington also doesn't make much sense to me. Pennington could break into the top 5 eventually I think she's one of the best in the division.

I would bet on Holly Holm to win a fight with Miesha Tate. I would bet all of my vbookie credits on it.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Trix said:


> Well, call me crazy but I think Holm has some of the best striking if not the best striking at 135. There's a huge difference between Holly Holm and Julianna Pena, Jessica Eye or Miesha Tate. Holm is capable of fighting intelligently and using whatever strategy works best. Pena, Eye, Tate and a lot of the others fight more on raw emotion and instinct and are kind of like one dimensional brawlers, they don't have as much of a fight IQ. That makes Holm much more dangerous in some ways.
> 
> People are underestimating Holm. If Holm had a few more fights in the UFC I think she would break into the top 3. Criticizing Holm for her fight with Racquel Pennington also doesn't make much sense to me. Pennington could break into the top 5 eventually I think she's one of the best in the division.
> 
> I would bet on Holly Holm to win a fight with Miesha Tate. I would bet all of my vbookie credits on it.


If Pennington is ever ranked in the top 5 they should just do away with the whole division and let Ronda just do promo events. What is Pennington good at? Nothing is the answer.

Yo Trix it isnt just us. Betting books have Ronda at -2000. That is unheard of in the ufc.

You have fell into the hype.

Freddie Roach says it would be a good fight standing....lol

I know you want to believe....


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> If Pennington is ever ranked in the top 5 they should just do away with the whole division and let Ronda just do promo events. *What is Pennington good at? Nothing is the answer.*


9 subs in 22 fights against several names (Tonya Evinger, Ashlee-Evans Smith, Jessica Andrade)










I don't care who you are and what division you are in, you land a bulldog choke you have my respect. It's one of five moves that if you land you've earned my attention. The other ones are (spinning back fist KO, inverted triangle, liver kick, suplex KO)


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

If shes such a sub artist why did she settle on trying to brawl a pro boxer?

It is the eye test. Pennington is not very good. But then again thr whole division is light years behind where Ronda has set the bar.

Thr McKenzitine is a stud as well. Focking bjj ace. Cant believe he was ever cut.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I'm not saying that holly shouldn't be a big underdog. I'm not saying I expect her to win. I will say that huge favorites have a better chance of losing in this sport than just about any other. It's part of why they fight the fights and we watch. otherwise we could just let the statisticians tell us what would have happened.

There's no doubt in my mind that Holly is getting better coaching than Ronda right now. She's a lot stronger and tougher than she looks.

she could break Ronda's nose with the first punch she throws and change everything. :jaw:


anything can happen :thumb02:


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Surely anything can happen.

But I can already see posters here after the fight saying "what was that?" "Who would ever pay for a Ronda fight?" "Wow I cant believe I thought Holm was any good". 

It happens every single Ronda fight. She kills her opponent in 2 seconds. People laugh and say wow Ronda is a beast. They say no one stand any chance vs her. Then next fight UFC runs some nice promos. Dana talks her opponent up a bit. And people draw up scenarios in which her opponent can win. 

Wash rinse repeat.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Surely anything can happen.
> 
> But I can already see posters here after the fight saying "what was that?" "Who would ever pay for a Ronda fight?" "Wow I cant believe I thought Holm was any good".
> 
> ...


But isn't that a lot like it was with fedor in his day or A. Silva? they were invincible until that time they weren't.

I just like to beat the rush and go ahead and pretend that they aren't from the getgo


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

oldfan said:


> But isn't that a lot like it was with fedor in his day or A. Silva? they were invincible until that time they weren't.
> 
> I just like to pretend that they aren't from the getgo


Anderson had lost twice. Fedor got almost dropped by Randleman and was in some good scraps until he finished. 

That isnt the same as Ronda beating everyone in 3 seconds in a crap division with part time fighters.

Plus the guys they fought had power to change a fight. The womans division does not have near the same unpredictability or chance for fight changing punches.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

rabakill said:


> James Toney was a boxing champ of exponentially higher callibre than Holm, look what a takedown specialist did. Her record means nothing, I knew Nick Ring while he was undefeated. Chilled with him in the gym, he knew he'd never be champ.
> 
> and the second ones? Don't be obtuse, it's a sign of low intelligence. If you don't know what obtuse means you should look it up.


0-0 in MMA James Toney fighting 18-10 in MMA Randy Couture.

Is the same as...

9-0 in MMA Holly Holm fighting 12-0 in MMA Ronda Rousey.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Anderson had lost twice. Fedor got almost dropped by Randleman and was in some good scraps until he finished.
> 
> That isnt the same as Ronda beating everyone in 3 seconds in a crap division with part time fighters.
> 
> Plus the guys they fought had power to change a fight. The womans division does not have near the same unpredictability or chance for fight changing punches.


Thanks for the all important stat reminders but I was referring more to the rinse repeat attitude of knowitall fans who just can't imagine a different outcome until it happens and then they're the first to come tell us why. Gotta love'm


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

The reason you can say Ronda is amazing, is because the woman she's fighting are the best in the world pretty much.

Giving Ronda abuse because she doesn't fight as good as guys do is like giving Matt Mitrione abuse because he doesn't have the footwork of Demetrious Johnson. No heavyweight does. But even with that limited skillset Mitrione is probably the lightest on his feet in the entire division.

The woman's Batamweight division has an average level, and Ronda is so spectacularly above that average that you can't just act like because Bethe can't throw a punch that Ronda is just beating nobody. None of them can really throw a great punch. You have to equalize the standard. People act like Ronda is the standard woman's fighters should be or something.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Foreign tourists visiting Brazilian jungle had a clear demonstration of *low fight IQ* displayed by a Jaguar (Onça Pintada over here). 

The feline jumped into his enemie's natural territory, where his foe would have a clear advantage, to challenge it for a live or die battle without even seeing his opponent properly. What a dumb animal this Jaguar is...






Or... could it be that this cat is just confident as hell, like Ronda is against her UFC BW competition?


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

oldfan said:


> Thanks for the all important stat reminders but I was referring more to the rinse repeat attitude of knowitall fans who just can't imagine a different outcome until it happens and then they're the first to come tell us why. Gotta love'm


Double


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

oldfan said:


> Thanks for the all important stat reminders but I was referring more to the rinse repeat attitude of knowitall fans who just can't imagine a different outcome until it happens and then they're the first to come tell us why. Gotta love'm


Ok that makes no sense. I just told you why it wasnt rinse repeat with them. 

Anderson lost twice for focks sake.

If Ronda fights till she is 38 then yea sure I can see her maybe losing:thumbsup:


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> The reason you can say Ronda is amazing, is because the woman she's fighting are the best in the world pretty much.


The problem is they all go full retard when fighting Ronda, like Jorge Gurgel level retard. Let's take Tate since she's the only one to have any real success. In the rematch, Tate was landing clean left hooks on Ronda starting in the 2nd round, but instead of landing the hook and circling out to do it again, she'd land the hook and swing a wild right hand which just gets her caught in the clinch and taken down. That's like GSP landing a jab, then running in to trade elbows in the pocket against Condit, you just don't do it. Like I said, full retard.

Bottom line is Ronda is damn good, but she looks even better than she is since all her opponents end up fighting to her strengths and their own weaknesses.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

aerius said:


> The problem is they all go full retard when fighting Ronda, like Jorge Gurgel level retard. Let's take Tate since she's the only one to have any real success. In the rematch, Tate was landing clean left hooks on Ronda starting in the 2nd round, but instead of landing the hook and circling out to do it again, she'd land the hook and swing a wild right hand which just gets her caught in the clinch and taken down. That's like GSP landing a jab, then running in to trade elbows in the pocket against Condit, you just don't do it. Like I said, full retard.
> 
> Bottom line is Ronda is damn good, but she looks even better than she is since all her opponents end up fighting to her strengths and their own weaknesses.


Actually, watch that second Tate fight again. She doesn't just end up in the clinch, Tate LOOKS for the clinch. So yeah, they go pretty fking retard when fighting Ronda. Like Holm shooting a takedown right away or something haha.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Actually, watch that second Tate fight again. She doesn't just end up in the clinch, Tate LOOKS for the clinch. So yeah, they go pretty fking retard when fighting Ronda. Like Holm shooting a takedown right away or something haha.


I just watched it again, yeah, I can't believe she did that. It's so stupid that my brain must've refused to believe it the first time, which was why I can't remember it. Seriously, you can't come up with a worse gameplan if you tried, it's that bad.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Ronda trying to strike with Holm *>* Holm trying to grapple with Ronda


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

aerius said:


> I just watched it again, yeah, I can't believe she did that. It's so stupid that my brain must've refused to believe it the first time, which was why I can't remember it. Seriously, you can't come up with a worse gameplan if you tried, it's that bad.


Cat Zingano disagrees.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Cat Zingano disagrees.


I don't know, at least a flying knee has a remote chance of a KO, whereas going for a clinch against Ronda has no possible upside.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Ok that makes no sense. I just told you why it wasnt rinse repeat with them.
> 
> Anderson lost twice for focks sake.
> 
> If Ronda fights till she is 38 then yea sure I can see her maybe losing:thumbsup:


Ronda never had a 3 second fight in her life and this is zero finishing power









maybe you'll see her lose before she's 38 :thumbsup:


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> When you gameplan to do something. Do it and win....I think it is asinine to call it bad IQ just because it isnt the absolue safest way to approach a fight.
> 
> So if she doesnt bum rush Holm....waits on it and gets head kick KOd you would then say well at least she displayed good fight iq?
> 
> What in the hell am I reading?


Heh... i missed this post. You don't seem to understand fight IQ Johnny, against Holm it would be low IQ to stand at distance, since thats how Holm wins... always at distance. Ronda's best option would be to force Holm back and force her to make the mistakes i said Holm would have to avoid. 

Correria's best chance to win was if Ronda swung wildly with no defense... that gave Correria the only slither of a chance she could ever have.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Holly's best chance is her left high kick. Only person who can match Ronda's intensity and power is certainly Cyborg. I think when Ronda gets hit it'll just piss her off. Her hero is Fedor and it shows big time. They both charge in, clinch, judo throw, gnp and or submit usually. 

History shows that the grappler with a high fight IQ will dictate the pace and usually win; GSP, Cain sans last fight, Cormier, ex-lhw champ as well, etc. 

That's why I love how Robbie is able to nullify anybody who tries to take him down and forces em to FIGHT standing.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

No_Mercy said:


> That's why I love how Robbie is able to nullify anybody who tries to take him down and forces em to FIGHT standing.


JDS TDD is also stellar and he proved that over and over. Clinch by the fence was his pitfall, though.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

No_Mercy said:


> Holly's best chance is her left high kick. Only person who can match Ronda's intensity and power is certainly Cyborg. I think when Ronda gets hit it'll just piss her off. Her hero is Fedor and it shows big time. They both charge in, clinch, judo throw, gnp and or submit usually.
> 
> History shows that the grappler with a high fight IQ will dictate the pace and usually win; GSP, Cain sans last fight, Cormier, ex-lhw champ as well, etc.
> 
> That's why I love how Robbie is able to nullify anybody who tries to take him down and forces em to FIGHT standing.


I love Robbie as well.

Also love Ronda because she will beat you any way she wants to.

I'd be more surprised if Holm KO'd Ronda than I would be if Ronda KO'd Holm.

Watch Ronda go in, charge, KO Holm, leave. And everyone's jaw drop.

Ronda is better at everything than any other woman in the division. She will walk through any little pitter pat shots Holm throws. She will be in too tight too quick for her to get headkicked.

Freddie Roach called Ronda a good boxer. But we will have people here tell us up and down how Ronda isn't a good puncher. Her hands are faster than Holm's easily. She offers more power as well. Holm has some big legs and if she swings one and lands she can generate power. Other than that she has no power. 

We haven't seen her headkick KO any mid level fighter in the UFC. Just the cans that Oldfan wants to bring up.



Joabbuac said:


> Heh... i missed this post. You don't seem to understand fight IQ Johnny, against Holm it would be low IQ to stand at distance, since thats how Holm wins... always at distance. Ronda's best option would be to force Holm back and force her to make the mistakes i said Holm would have to avoid.
> 
> Correria's best chance to win was if Ronda swung wildly with no defense... that gave Correria the only slither of a chance she could ever have.


Lets take a look at the very best fighters of all time and lets determine how "safe" or how much "fight IQ" according to you they had.

Lets just get GSP out of the way. He is a very safe fighter and one of the best of all time.

Fedor- the definition of "wild" would be the definition of "low fight IQ". Happens to be in almost everyone top 3 ever.

ANderson- fought with his hands down, played around, would throw random stuff. Would lose positions on the ground. Widely considered best of all time. Definition of you low fight IQ.

Hendo- Early career wrestled, turned into a 1 handed bomb thrower who did not give 2 craps. Beat many greats using this style. Earned a UFC LHW title shot off this style beating much bigger men than he.

BJ Penn- I have no clue here. He was a good striker who has great TDD. He was an all or nothing guy himself. He tried to wrestle Fitch, did and got tired. I wouldn't call him having "high fight IQ" under your definition. But he is hard to call here because he was good everywhere....besides his back. His fights fights vs. Frankie you could argue were poorly fought and showed low fight IQ.

CHuck Liddell- enough said

Shogun- enough said

We have our Couture's and Matt Hughes who you would say had fight IQ. But I put together a who who list of undisputable top P4P guys of all time and many of them displayed very poor fight IQ.

So humor me. Would these guys of been better off if they had a master like you to up their fight IQ? Or was it not really low fight IQ to begin with.

Your definition of "low fight IQ" has won a lot of big time fight in history. Ronda is the surest thing in the sport and supposedly has a low fight IQ in your eyes. Maybe you should tell her she would be much better off if she fought safest way possible.

Is the name of the game to win the fight or display safe fight IQ?


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> ANderson- fought with his hands down, played around, would throw random stuff. Would lose positions on the ground. Widely considered best of all time. Definition of you low fight IQ.


Silva's hands down approach had a tactical reason (lure his opponents to engage to then counter them, and it's harder to see his hands coming from below), so it was unorthodox, but not necessarily low fight IQ until the Bonnar fight. There he started to just try to prove that he is invincible, which then backfired big time in the first Weidman fight. Judging your opponent's abilities is part of your own fighting skills and necessary part of your fight IQ. Silva completely brainfarted there.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Is the name of the game to win the fight or display safe fight IQ?


Not bothering with this... You have absolutely no idea what fight IQ is, You seem to think its entirely to do with fighting safe. Its about fighting in the best way to win the fight... if turning it into a brawl gives you the best chance to win, then you turn it into a brawl.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Voiceless said:


> Silva's hands down approach had a tactical reason (lure his opponents to engage to then counter them, and it's harder to see his hands coming from below), so it was unorthodox, but not necessarily low fight IQ until the Bonnar fight. There he started to just try to prove that he is invincible, which then backfired big time in the first Weidman fight. Judging your opponent's abilities is part of your own fighting skills and necessary part of your fight IQ. Silva completely brainfarted there.


Yes just as Ronda has a tactical reason for bum rushing.

A. The women get overwhelmed pretty easy.

B. They have no real 1 shot KO power and she is willing to eat a couple falling away shots as backing them up allows them to generate even less power than they have.

C. She is pretty much more explosive than any other fighter in the division.

D. It doesn't allow them to get going.

E. It allows her to get into the clinch very quickly without having to Randy Couture wall and stall them first.

F. It makes her famous/popular/awesome/money in finishing everyone so quickly, much more so than if she was a lay and prayer all her life.


Just because Ronda bum rushes doesn't mean there is no tactical reason for it.



Joabbuac said:


> Not bothering with this... You have absolutely no idea what fight IQ is, You seem to think its entirely to do with fighting safe. *Its about fighting in the best way to win the fight... if turning it into a brawl gives you the best chance to win, then you turn it into a brawl*.


You say this because you got owned. 

The bolded is my whole F'ing point!!!! Has she lost? How is bum rushing going for her? Where is your logic.

I guess Ronda should consult master Joac on her gameplan. Clearly it is not working for her.

In this thread I have heard "Ronda has poor coaching, Holm is probably getting trained better" "Ronda has low fight IQ". Well I'll be damned! Ronda is better than I even thought. Overcoming that and still wrecking all these poor souls. People don't ask will she win, they ask how many seconds! Imagine if she had a good coach and fought smart!


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> *You say this because you got owned.
> *
> The bolded is my whole F'ing point!!!! Has she lost? How is bum rushing going for her? Where is your logic.
> 
> ...


:laugh: Why are you being childish? 

The fact what Holm is doing works has nothing to do with how much fight IQ she has, everyone who watches this sport knew Bethe Correia was severely outmatched, she was one of the biggest underdogs i have ever seen in a title fight. Brawling with Correia did not give Ronda her best shot to win... it gave Correia her only shot to win. What about this is hard for you? 

Other great fighter have in fact shown some low IQ, but most of them pair up with a really solid trainer and listen to there every word and follow their precise instructions. But Ronda has shown she is willing to improve regardless of whether her opponents are able to force her... Ronda has pitifully low in cage experience and she is is improving faster than anyone in the division. 

Maybe the Low IQ is a result of inexperience, or maybe she needs a new coach... either way she will keep on winning.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

She has the opposite of low fight IQ, her standing skills are below average and she walks through people. If she were to stand for 30 seconds she'd lose against many opponents because she's so stiff and tense, that only works for charging in


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

rabakill said:


> She has the opposite of low fight IQ, her standing skills are below average and she walks through people. If she were to stand for 30 seconds she'd lose against many opponents because she's so stiff and tense, that only works for charging in


If she was rushing in to grab a clinch against Beth... i would agree.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Watching Rousey's amateur fights for an article I'm writing.

Her second one, announcer says:

"So you say your eventual goal is to eventually go on to Strikeforce and beat up Cyborg in the 145 pound division".

Surprised I've not heard about that before.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Joabbuac said:


> If she was rushing in to grab a clinch against Beth... i would agree.


I think you among others are just trolling me now.

First how many times has she bum rushed looking to strike? Once? When the opponwnt talked about her dead father? So once means she has low fight iq?

Second why do you all assume Ronda isnt a better striker than all these girls? Because she is a judo player??? News flash....GsP wasnt a wrestler either to start out. 

Why would Ronda be afraid to strike with the can that is Betch? Betch has 2 tkos in her life....one outside the ufc and one vs the Bayzler who straight sucked at the end of her career. Please what are her striking credentials? For the love of god explain why people are so quick to dismiss Ronda's striking when she is the only ufc woman to flat line a girl and crumble a girl with a knee.....yet quick to act like these other girls have dangerous striking? Can I get an answer? She is 10 times the striker Bethe is. 

Freddie focking Roach said she has good boxing. And obviously more finishing power than these other girls. She has fast hands and power. Please anyone tell me how Ronda is terrible technically yet Tate and Bethe are good? How? Because of what?

You dont think Ronda gameplans? You dont think there is a method to her madness? You become the best in the world by chance? By flinging shit against a wall????

You guys are trolling. If not bring some substance to uour opinion. Technically Holm is a better striker but Ronda has more punch power and isnt afraid to get in uour face to use it. Other than Holm there isnt a girl in ufcs 135 that is a better technical striker. There is a pic of her vs Davis where Ronda is slipping a punch eyes wide open in the pocket and straight drilling Davis in the face. No other girl is as fearless and good in thr heat of attack. 

Ronda could KO holm and people would still act like her striking isnt tops in the division. It is hilarious. 

So she is supposed to go straight for a judo toss and a judo toss only every fight when that is what her opponents have expected? You would make one hell of a sucky coach.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

I see Ronda taking her down and submitting her, since Holm has no ground game. Just like everyone else in the WBW division except Ronda.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Ronda beats Holm anywhere, including on the feet. I'm expecting a KO or she'll knock her down and submit her.

Holm is not ready for Ronda. Not ready at all. She has struggled with D level fighters since she got to the UFC and this fight is a MASSIVE mismatch.

P.S massive lol at anyone claiming Ronda has bad fight IQ. She has a 100% finish rate and 90% of her opponents dont even make it to the 2nd minute, not only that, but she has been in trouble in a fight precisely ZERO times. Low fight IQ... come on now. :laugh:


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Ronda comes out and gets punched a bit in every single fight. What they either results in is her finishing you with strikes soon after as she's too big and strong and the fear of the clinch is too much, or she actually gets the clinch and slams you hard.

We haven't even seen her fight IQ yet.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Killz said:


> Holm is not ready for Ronda. Not ready at all. She has struggled with D level fighters since she got to the UFC and this fight is a MASSIVE mismatch.


She ain't ready and it's highly, highly unlikely that she ever will be. However, putting on Devil's Advocate hat for a bit, few people thought that Gustafsson was ready for Jones after the performance he put in against Shogun, yet he was able to massively step up his game and give Jones the fight of his life. Who knew that the guy would suddenly find his inner Viking?



> P.S massive lol at anyone claiming Ronda has bad fight IQ. She has a 100% finish rate and 90% of her opponents dont even make it to the 2nd minute, not only that, but she has been in trouble in a fight precisely ZERO times. Low fight IQ... come on now. :laugh:


Well, the was that time when Carmouche got her back and had a head crank locked in. But yeah, other than that, zero.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

That wasn't bad fight IQ though. Ronda always goes for that far side control choke because it's big in Judo but it opens up the possibility of someone taking her back. She defended correctly and got out of danger. I wouldn't say that was low IQ.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

The people claiming low fight IQ or just "she has gotten punched" hold some high high standards. 

GSP is the safest fighter in MMA history. He hasn't only been hit by Shields, Penn ect ect ect.......he got focking dropped and finished by a huge underdog that was a blown up LW. 

Every fighter in almost every fight eats a few punches. It matters waaaay less in the women's division. 

I think it shows how much people think of the women's division when they chalk up her opponents landing literally a couple shots to Ronda just having poor fight IQ. I mean I don't think this division is good at all, but I will at least give SOME credit for them TRYING to punch her in the face and succeeding a COUPLE times. I mean I will give them that much at least. She isn't fighting blind fighters.....they are capable of landing a shot or 2.

Every Ronda fight can't be total FLAWLESS VICTORY. Even though it is damn close thus far.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> The people claiming low fight IQ or just "she has gotten punched" hold some high high standards.
> 
> GSP is the safest fighter in MMA history. He hasn't only been hit by Shields, Penn ect ect ect.......he got focking dropped and finished by a huge underdog that was a blown up LW.
> 
> ...


It's what I always saw when people discuss Conor. Chad Mendes did less on the ground with Conor than Miesha Tate did to Ronda on the feet, but with both it's sounding like they just got DESTROYED.

We see people hit every fighter. We see every fighter get taken down and take a few shots. When you get hailed to such a high level, even your dis-creditors hold you to the highest standards and think that every tiny iota of weakness means you will lose every fight.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> It's what I always saw when people discuss Conor. Chad Mendes did less on the ground with Conor than Miesha Tate did to Ronda on the feet, but with both it's sounding like they just got DESTROYED.
> 
> We see people hit every fighter. We see every fighter get taken down and take a few shots. When you get hailed to such a high level, even your dis-creditors hold you to the highest standards and think that every tiny iota of weakness means you will lose every fight.


I was very very drunk at a bar yelling at Conor fans snd making bets that fight so excise me if Im way off. But I remember Chad landing a couple big GnP bombs that bounced Conors head off the floor. Conor looked not phased but... also top control for a couole rounds is winning. Conor was down where as Ronda was not. 
Chad also landed some hard ones standing.

I dont think Tate landed anything much. She punched as Ronda came in and it didnt even slow her down. It was like 10 seconds of the whole fight where as Chad was winnibg the fight om the cards for a couple rounds.

But I do agree, you are going to est punches if you are aggressive. And many times if you have a chin or they have no power in the strikes then it doesnt matyer much.

I could be remembering this all wrong but I think Tate's " success" is waaaaay overblown. Shd lasted longer than others.....but she still was losing 95% of the fight. Her couple punches wete literally like 5 seconds of the fight....

But also in Conor's case if you are defending from bottom and letting your opponent punch himself out and make it back up and put a whooping.....that is what a guard is all about. Defend until you can use your stength. Conor wasnt in danger and clearly had thr upper hand later when they were standing. He defended well on his back.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Ronda looked a little phased by Miesha in a "Miesha has stuffed my takedowns a bit here, defended the armbar, and is beating me on the feet" but Tate handed her the win anyways.

Miesha was landing though. Not hard. Not winning. But landing. Chad did land a few nice shots on the ground. I think even Chad fans forget the hard shots he landed on the feet. But I found the first round to be pretty close because of the damage Conor's shots did and then of course he finished it next round.

People will pick out these little things like they looked really weak. Ronda beat Miesha with the same move she had beat everyone with, and still threw her like a little girl. Conor still won by second round TKO with some fantastic looking striking. The weaknesses show us a little bit like "Maybe Cyborg could XYZ and maybe Frankie could ZYX" but not to the proportion people blow them up to.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

I think if she stands up with Holly the fight will be ugly. 

I cant see any reason Ronda wont just rush her, toss her and sub her at some point in the fight.

But I also think Holly is being overlooked and if anyone in the UFC is going to make her have to figure them out its probably Holm.

I think Holly has great footwork and range and skill. I think she has to hurt Ronda to the body and Condit her way to a win. 

Ronda's going to win IMO but Im hoping Holly will put up a fight.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

A lot of you vastly overestimate Ronda's standup, based on what we've seen she's simply not beating Holm in a pure striking match.

Head movement, dynamic attacks, power, kicks, punches Holm is all superior in. Doesn't mean squat in an mma fight but still, Ronda ain't that good standing. She fights like she has little trex arms, holds them in way too close and swings with little to no head movement. 

Her standup is essentially defensive to get her into the ground game. Have none of you ever trained standup? Ronda makes amateur mistakes, not surprised as a martial art like Judo that often discourages pure striking has molded her into a ground game specialist, that and her mom. She comes from a family background of leverage over striking.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

@rabakill, I think you're overrating Holm's striking. We haven't really seen this head movement, dynamic attacks or power from Holm in the UFC. We've seen her stand at distance, throw a lot of shots that didn't land. Commit to a big one. Tie up in the clinch. Separate and repeat.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

CupCake said:


> UFC are rushing this fight while Holm is still undefeated. Holm would lose to any of the 135 top 10. I wouldn't rank Holm in the top 10.
> 
> Holm hasn't faced anyone even with Zingano/Nunes/McMann's level of ground game, she'd be a fish out of water if Rousey takes her down.


Thats a bold statement when you're talking about a fighter who was training with Jacksons from before anyone knew who Jackson was..

I think every female fighter in the UFC is a fish out of water with regard to Ronda on the ground, but I think when you're a boxing champion you don't go out and try to wrestle or play BJJ in the UFC you box or kick box in her case and thats what she's done.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Outside of a flash KO, you WILL end up on the floor with Rousey at some stage though. I think that's why Tate is the best against her so far. Tate defended the armbar at least twice, managed to keep it standing a good few times, got back up after being taken down. A big one is she made Rousey really scared of her upkicks too. Holm has a lot to show us that she hasn't in the UFC yet.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

slapshot said:


> I think if she stands up with Holly the fight will be ugly.
> 
> I cant see any reason Ronda wont just rush her, toss her and sub her at some point in the fight.
> 
> ...


I think Holm will have to move around like a rabbit.....I just think in doing so she cant get and offense off. Once ahe tries offense then it is Ronda's fight. It may look like Rocky chasing the chicken in Rocky 2. So it might suck for a while. I think if Holm fights smart/well it will be basically a keep away game that will have the crowd booing. That is basically her only option however.

Has anyone heard/read Sonnen trashing Holm's boxing resume? I was going to post it up last night but I am on my phone now and will butcher it. Also there was a boxing training I forget his name....trained Mir a bit....he basically says Ronda is improving fast and this could be a good time for Ronda to show off her hands and have people listen up. He said boxing fans will not like this fight.

Edit: here is boxing trainer for all you wannabe boxing critics. Here is a guy from the sport. I realize in a boxing setting Holm wins. But it isnt boxing. Ronda may be a better mma striker. It isnt crazy at all.

http://mmajunkie.com/2015/08/angelo-reyes-boxing-fans-will-get-mad-at-ronda-rousey-vs-holly-holm



> We’re talking just pure boxing. Ronda Rousey’s best weight has been 135. Holly Holm’s best weight in boxing was at 140, so they’re not even in the same weight class. In boxing, it’s a different sport. There are different lines. It’s not the same. If they got in the cage and went hands with Rousey vs. Holm and they just went straight hands. Though I believe Holly Holm could outbox her, I think four-ounce gloves changes things. Holly Holm’s two losses in her career have been by getting knocked out. Like I said, this could be a really great statement fight for Ronda Rousey to prove that her hands have been getting better.”


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

I think if I'm Sonnen i'd butten up about someone else's striking skills, Chael "master of the spinning back fist" Sonnen, lol.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

slapshot said:


> I think if I'm Sonnen i'd butten up about someone else's striking skills, Chael "master of the spinning back fist" Sonnen, lol.


Oh im not saying he has room to talk. But he is a long time fighter with many ins with people in the fight game. I see no reason he would trash a woman he doesnt know for thr sake of being brash. He knows his stuff a bit even if he himself was basically a wrrstler. He did drop Anderson when we would have all laughed at thr thought 

I think it was on mma hour. He basically says she s not a 17 time champ. Those were all sham fights. Said he has been all over the world and ahook many hands and never came across a female boxer. Said she is technically a solid boxer but her career as some great champ is fabricated.

Edit: im doing better than I thought from my phone



> "Holly is gaining some fan support, and as far as the locker room goes, we can't get behind her 'cause she's not telling the truth, that there is no validity that I'm willing to sign off on -- and I'm happy for someone to come in and disagree with me, tell me where I'm wrong. But there is no validity to any of her world championships, let alone some ridiculous claim of being a seventeen-time world champion. I mean guys, I can go open the door to my garage right now, invite all comers, and then put a belt around whoever wins and call it the 'world championship'. And I mean that kind of stuff happens all the time. You see it in arm wrestling. There's a world championship for some game called 'cornholing', which is like some Midwest version of horseshoes. There's world championships for thumb wrestling, and there's no validity to this stuff. There's no validity to her being a seventeen-time world champion, and I don't believe as an analyst that there's any validity to any, zero of her championships. I don't know any tournament she entered where the entire planet was welcome to enter. I've been making this claim for a while wanting someone, wanting Holly to disagree with me. I want her coaches to come out and say, 'Chael, you don't know what you're talking about.' It's never happened. She's got the thumb-wrestling world championship from some dude's garage. That's just the reality. I do think she's a skilled fighter, I think she's a good boxer. I don't know if that matters. I'm 38 years old, I've never met a female boxer. Not one. I've traveled the world, I've seen damn near every continent in every country, I've been in every state in America, I've never reached across a table and shaken hands with a woman that turned out she was a boxer. So are you the best boxer in the world for females? Maybe? Does that mean you beat about three people? Yeah, it does."


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

In addition



> Again, she's got some skills. You'll hear the expression 'a puncher's chance,' but she's not very good at punching. Those boxing championships, they're not real. I'm not sure she could outstrike Ronda. She definitely can't outgrapple her. I wish her the best. This is a very nice girl. I've never met Holly. She has a tremendous reputation. People love her. They don't just go, 'Oh, she's alright.' They go on and on about what a great teammate she is and what a great person she is. I want to make that clear before I start throwing stones here. In her defense, if she enters into an event and that promoter calls it the world title and puts a belt around her, I think she has the right to put it on her resume."


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

I actually agree with Holm's boxing not being all that, its extremely simplistic stuff in a hugely underfunded under talented Womens boxing scene. 

She is better with her kicks than her hands. 



slapshot said:


> I think if she stands up with Holly the fight will be ugly.
> 
> I cant see any reason Ronda wont just rush her, toss her and sub her at some point in the fight.
> 
> ...


Holm is also really strong, with the movement... i think she has more of a chance than most at shrugging Ronda off a few clinch attempts if Ronda does get a hold of her. 

Shrugging off all night though? Extremely unlikely.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Her kicks are actually nuts for a boxer. She just hasnt used them effectively in UFC.

I wonder how Katie Taylor would do in boxing with Holly. I don't know much about boxing but I think Katie HAS to be the greatest amateur female boxer ever with like 8 European titles in a row, like 4 World titles in a row and the only ever Olympic gold medal at that weight.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> @rabakill, I think you're overrating Holm's striking. We haven't really seen this head movement, dynamic attacks or power from Holm in the UFC. We've seen her stand at distance, throw a lot of shots that didn't land. Commit to a big one. Tie up in the clinch. Separate and repeat.


The head movement, dynamic attacks and power have all been superior to Rondas in the striking. Why are you always so obtuse? It's really really annoying.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

rabakill said:


> The head movement, dynamic attacks and power have all been superior to Rondas in the striking. Why are you always so obtuse? It's really really annoying.


Her power isn't superior to Ronda's. Maybe her kicking power is, but overall Ronda is the MUCH stronger of the two. Ronda's power is easily her most underrated aspect. She is so physically imposing on opponents which is why she is so successful. Her leg strength in grappling easily outmatches anyone in woman's BW MMA's. 

Head movement and dynamic attacks? In the UFC at least neither have shown any. Holly hasn't been hit much, but she fights at distance with opponents staying on her outside. She'll land on Ronda quickly, maybe hurting her, but that would mean over committing and relying on one shot over her overall game. Holm needs to be a master of circling and landing the jab. Ronda can throw what she wants but Ronda won't KO Holm with a shot from distance, only inside like Bethe. Holm has ways to win, but it would mean being 10 times more excellent in execution than Weidman Vs Machida which imo is the best visual portrayal of strategy ever seen in the cage, rivalled only by RDA Vs Pettis.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Like I said, I exspect Ronda to win early but her striking really has not improved as much as its being claimed to have improved.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

slapshot said:


> Like I said, I exspect Ronda to win early but her striking really has not improved as much as its being claimed to have improved.


Yeah I just watched all of her fights and it's really not. She landed well on Miesha but that's because Miesha was focused on offence over defence. Bethe just didn't have the ability to goe toe to toe, even though it was still an amazing.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

rabakill said:


> The head movement, dynamic attacks and power have all been superior to Rondas in the striking. Why are you always so obtuse? It's really really annoying.


Im not saying Holm doesnt have better all around technical pitter patter from distance or better footwork. Or possibly head movement.

The fight people bring up where Ronda got "hit a couple times" was jow long ago? Like all these quotes from actual boxing guys and sonnen has said Ronda gets so much better.

Again I ask what fights in ufc has holm showed much? She is fighting brawlers and old bjj fighters. Or course she should look good. But it is telling when she is afraid to commit to in pocket fighting against such weak fighters. Of course she will circle and out footwork cans and not get hit. Robda goes in the pocket and throws. I dont see this great head movement from Holm because she has been waaaay outside. You dont need any head movement....you just use footwork against much lesser experienced strikers.....you know what im saying?

When I watch Holm I see shadow boxing with some kicks. Maybe she has been THAT afraid of maybe getting taken down. But neither Pennington nor the 38 year old bjj girl looked fot much of any takedowns. Neither were strong with takedowns coming in. They were perfect opponents for her.

2 boxing guys have basically said Ronda is very solid with her hands and it would be interesting to see a striking match....

Even if Holm is better technically I dont see anyone else being better than Ronda there i that division. Plus Ronda delivers the most power in her hands easily out of anyone in the division. 

Put Ronda's skills in the 185lb division and yea they dont stack up. But in her division I see her as one of the very best strikers. There is no basis to say otherwise. What girls light it up striking? And against who if they have? Anyone have any examples of sweet ufc 135lb womens striking?


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

slapshot said:


> Like I said, I exspect Ronda to win early but her striking really has not improved as much as its being claimed to have improved.


She seems to have learned to put some power behind her punches, that right hand that dropped Davis looked real nice.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Joabbuac said:


> She seems to have learned to put some power behind her punches, that right hand that dropped Davis looked real nice.


That is where I see her better than Holm. She knows how to hit and is willing to sit down on a punch. Is she Shane Mosely? No. Neither od Holm. But her willingness to trade in the pocket shows she isnt afraid of anyones power eapecially when she moves them back. It also shows she is looking for a chin. Something Holm hasnt shown. 

Ronda isnt going to throw a jab jab combo and use footwork to outwork people for rounds. That is why this is mma not boxing. She has developed a style striking and I dont think abyone including Holm can sit toe to toe with her and punch. 

Thomas Almeida is better sure. But it is similar to him. He is willing to sit in there trade, maybe take 1 or 2 knowing he is sitting down on his punches more and will find the KO before you do. He isnt going to Bisping you with strikes......neither is Ronda.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)




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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Woh, holm stayed in the pocket there.

Still no KO power


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

If Ronda acts as stupid in the fight as she did at the weigh in, Holly has a good chance. she pushed Ronda off of her like she was nothing.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Woh, holm stayed in the pocket there.
> 
> Still no KO power


Lol, yeah.

She just pushed RRR away with her fist when RRR put her head on her.

Rouseys gonna kill her... but I'm hoping for the 1000/1


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Im I would say majority of the time an underdog sort of fan.

But I just would not care for wmma at all if it were not for Ronda. I dont want to see a fluke champ there. I am glad that division has a straight savage as champ. 

I wasnt planning on watching this card as it sucks really. But I think I may just getting fired up about Ronda. If we had Tate as champ or Holm payting from outside I would not give 2 shits.

I do love me some Joanna too though. She is a savage in her own right


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

That picture is crazy misleading. The squared up. Ronda put her fist on Holly's chin. Holly put her hands up. Ronda flipped out. Got separated.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Ronda is weird in that at times she'll have an iron will like when Bethe Correia is yelling in her face but when Holm pulls something like this she flips. She also bitches and complains when Miesha Tate pulls pranks when she's the one who made remarks first. In summary Ronda is inconsistant.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

kantowrestler said:


> Ronda is weird in that at times she'll have an iron will like when Bethe Correia is yelling in her face but when Holm pulls something like this she flips. She also bitches and complains when Miesha Tate pulls pranks when she's the one who made remarks first. In summary Ronda is inconsistant.


 @CupCake, what's the phrase for this?


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> @CupCake, what's the phrase for this?


"Bitches be crazy"?


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Or that is another way of putting it and Ronda has proven she can be a bitch at times. As Ted Czech has put it she is basically a heel in the UFC. Not really a bad description unless you are talking about a real smack talker.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Y'all go ahead and get your excuses ready.
bad coach
bad mom
bad boyfriend
bad weight cut
bad game plan
media obligations
movies
pressure finally got to her
bitch be crazy
slipped
exposed
never that good
lucky punch
lucky kick in the head

feel free to mix and match 

Ronda tried to intimidate her at the weigh in and it backfired. Holly's in Ronda's head now. She's too strong for ronda.

Ronda's dickhead coach says "we trained for a runner" I hope she fires him as soon as she wakes up.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

oldfan said:


> Y'all go ahead and get your excuses ready.
> bad coach
> bad mom
> bad boyfriend
> ...


Make some serious coin and throw money on it


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I still find it interesting that Ronda who normally has nerves of steel was the emotional one at the weigh ins. Holm was just patiently standing there. Sure she shoved back and I didn't realize the difference an inch in height makes.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> I still find it interesting that Ronda who normally has nerves of steel was the emotional one at the weigh ins. Holm was just patiently standing there. Sure she shoved back and *I didn't realize the difference an inch in height makes*.


WHat does the bolded mean?

It hasn't gotten like that, but Ronda has been intense and emotional before plenty of times. She is never smiling. I mean there she sort of went nuts a bit, but it isn't like she is there ever all happy and stuff. 

Perhaps she has something for Holm that she has just held in. Also she mentioned Jackson's camp and how she doesn't like how they think they have a plan to beat here...she like just like before and it didn't work. I love that she seems to hate Jackson's since I pretty much do too. I think she gets legit mad when people act like they have a chance vs. her which is hilarious and awesome at the same time.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

I wonder if Holly Holm thought about pushing Ronda away with an open hand. Then thought she could accidentally poke Ronda in the eye the way Jon Jones eye pokes people when he tries to push them away open handed.

So Holly opted to push Ronda away with a closed fist instead of an open hand to make sure she didn't poke Ronda in the eye and give Jackson's a bad name.

Dropped a million creds on Holly Holm. Don't tail me, broz. I couldn't be more clueless as to whether Holly wins or loses. Who knows what her ground game or armbar defense looks like. I just felt like I have to do it cuz I talked too much [email protected]#% about Holly Holm having a chance, I can't let those e-words be spoken in vain.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Trix said:


> I wonder if Holly Holm thought about pushing Ronda away with an open hand. Then thought she could accidentally poke Ronda in the eye the way Jon Jones eye pokes people when he tries to push them away open handed.
> 
> So Holly opted to push Ronda away with a closed fist instead of an open hand to make sure she didn't poke Ronda in the eye and give Jackson's a bad name.



:laugh: What?


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Make some serious coin and throw money on it


I did. Not enough to hurt when she loses. just enough to buy me a "told ya so" if she wins. ($25)

Ronda posted this last night on instagram:


> Fake ass cheap shotting fake respect fake humility bitch – “preacher’s daughter” my ass – I see through your fake sweet act now – you’re getting your ass kicked tomorrow, and I’m really going to enjoy the beating I give you #andSTILL


I think she's losing it. I'm going to go ahead and pick my 3 excuses.
1.bad coach
2. bad boyfriend
3. bitch be crazy

those 3 things have pushed her over the edge. 

Dana just said that cyborg is next. That's a bad sign for Ronda. Karma does have a sense of humor. What a hoot if it turned out to be cyborg vs Holly


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I've saw one or two people point out the height difference in that Holly can use it and beat Ronda with it.

Cause, you know, having higher hips works perfectly against Judo :laugh:


----------



## suffersystem (Feb 4, 2007)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Watching Rousey's amateur fights for an article I'm writing.
> 
> Her second one, announcer says:
> 
> ...


Far as I know that was completely the plan until Cyborg pissed hot. They then scrapped the entire 145 division and went with 135 instead. They had Ronda, and the 145 champ just pissed hot and doesn't sell, what do you think they would do?


----------



## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

oldfan said:


> I did. Not enough to hurt when she loses. just enough to buy me a "told ya so" if she wins. ($25)
> 
> Ronda posted this last night on instagram:
> 
> ...


She's just revving up like Bisping likes to do. Ronda likes to hate her opponents. Either that or shes getting into her head. 

However the bad boyfriend excuse would be completely legit!


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Joabbuac said:


> I actually agree with Holm's boxing not being all that, its extremely simplistic stuff in a hugely underfunded under talented Womens boxing scene.
> 
> She is better with her kicks than her hands.
> 
> ...


You know, one huge leg kick/body kick could change the complexion of this fight, now I'm not saying it will happen but holly is very good at fighting at range, finding range, making space and if rhonda decides to play with her food instead of taking her out Holly is a volume striker who picks away at fighters and she relies on accumulative damage but she can hurt you.

I don't think Rhonda should stand and bang with Holly Holm regardless of whether or not she can because if she loses then we're still left with "what would have happened if Rhonda just went out there and use her best skills" 

we would see a rematch if that happened but on paper it'd still be a blemish Ronda could've avoided.


----------



## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Looking at the stats...Ronda's reach has grown 2 inches since the Carmouche fight.


----------



## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

CupCake said:


> Looking at the stats...Ronda's reach has grown 2 inches since the Carmouche fight.


A persons reach is tied to their ego.

Scientific fact.


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

CupCake said:


> Looking at the stats...Ronda's reach has grown 2 inches since the Carmouche fight.


Understandable. She's reaching way too far trying to make the public to like her instead of Holm.


----------



## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

CupCake said:


> Looking at the stats...Ronda's reach has grown 2 inches since the Carmouche fight.


Likewise, Daniel Kelly's reach seems to have dropped from 73 inches:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Kelly_(fighter)

Down to 70 inches:

http://www.ufc.com/fighter/Dan-Kelly

:jaw:


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Not sure if this will work via mobile but this is the first article in a national newspaper about a UFC fighter other then an Irish one


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Spite said:


> A persons reach is tied to their ego.
> 
> Scientific fact.


I remember Shane Carwin's height changing every fight... he seemed to get taller the more hype he was getting, after he lost to brock he shrunk back down.


----------



## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

CupCake said:


> Looking at the stats...Ronda's reach has grown 2 inches since the Carmouche fight.


She must have been flaccid last time. Probably got a bit more excited around the time of the latest measurements.










I swear I am a mature person.


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

How can a person's reach grow over the span of two years like that exactly?


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> How can a person's reach grow over the span of two years like that exactly?


You hang from a bar and tie a big weight to your feet. Stretches your arms.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Reminds me of the Kickboxer flexibility training with Jean Claude. Yeah, cause forcing your legs improves flexibility and doesn't just rip your ligaments. Cool.


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Let's not forget kicking a tree until you snap it in half doesn't do to one's shins what happened to Anderson Silva's leg. I seriously listen to those legends and wonder how hard were they kicking. The truth probably isn't as impressive.


----------



## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> Let's not forget kicking a tree until you snap it in half doesn't do to one's shins what happened to Anderson Silva's leg. I seriously listen to those legends and wonder how hard were they kicking. The truth probably isn't as impressive.


That one actually has something to it... not so dramatic like in the film, but kicking hard shit creates mini fractures in the shin bones, causing them to heal over and create a stronger bone.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Yeah kicking trees and stuff is done in a lot of martial arts. My favourite thing is poking trees with your fingers in Kyokushin haha.


----------



## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Reminds me of the Kickboxer flexibility training with Jean Claude. Yeah, cause forcing your legs improves flexibility and doesn't just rip your ligaments. Cool.


One of my friend's younger brothers and his lil friends actually did that, tied ropes to his leg to pull them apart so he could do the splits & wound up in the hospital.

So yeah, there actually are people who do that type of thing.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Trix said:


> One of my friend's younger brothers and his lil friends actually did that, tied ropes to his leg to pull them apart so he could do the splits & wound up in the hospital.
> 
> So yeah, there actually are people who do that type of thing.


Wow, that had to be NASTY to end up in hospital.

My problem is my legs are so big, I am fairly close to splits but I struggle to keep traction of my feet, so I'm too scared of slipping and ripping something important haha.


----------



## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Yep.

I thought that might happen.

Thx for tuning in.

:thumbsup:


----------



## DanTheJu (Mar 3, 2007)

ummmm.... well.... that just happened!!!!


----------



## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

No chance at all huh Johnny?



Joabbuac said:


> Her straight is a better counter shot for her, throw it then swivel off on the same side... it will knock Ronda back if she is bull rushing with her head in the air. Gotta give Ronda a good reason not to rush in.


That counter straight huh?


----------



## box (Oct 15, 2006)

This thread is pretty funny in hindsight. I guess Holly put in the work and holy **** it showed tonight. She had power, amazing movement, I didn't see that happening whatsoever.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

That was beautiful. I love this sport.




Joabbuac said:


> No chance at all huh Johnny?
> 
> 
> 
> That counter straight huh?


you just settle down. Jonny will be along directly to explain to us why that happened.


----------



## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

box said:


> This thread is pretty funny in hindsight. I guess Holly put in the work and holy **** it showed tonight. She had power, amazing movement, I didn't see that happening whatsoever.


Not really, it was a fairly huge upset. More than Anderson vs. Weidman imo.


----------



## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

I did not see that coming. Ronda looked terribly amateur.


----------



## box (Oct 15, 2006)

rabakill said:


> Not really, it was a fairly huge upset. More than Anderson vs. Weidman imo.


Looking back now, Ronda's competition is laughable compared to who Weidman fought before he faced Silva. Ronda just has some serious freight train of hype behind her.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

poppin in to say I was waaaaay off.

joac tirx oldfan

ill be back tomorrow when I have more energy to eat crow


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

No_Mercy said:


> Holly's best chance is her left high kick.


This is the first time I quoted myself and I'm not very proud of it cuz I thought and sort of wanted to see a UFC champion retire undefeated. 

To give Holm credit her footwork was incredible, angling off and countering like CRAZY. Wide arsenal of shots. 

It's very very very coincidental that Ronda's mom outs her daughters' coach on the eve of this fight. Me thinks she saw something missing in her daughters' training curriculum. But in Edmond's defense you can't train someone overnight. But Holm has world class trainers. 

I do believe Ronda needs to add another camp. SHE IS OLYMPIC AND WORLD CLASS. SHE JUST NEEDS A WORLD CLASS CAMP TO MATCH THAT. 

It's been two years since the last major upset. GSP is still the biggest upset followed by Ronda now and Anderson at #3 imo. Hard to see such an "invincible" fighter become mortal.


----------



## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

Not like that...

But thats why us Brits stay up till 6am eh Clyde, to see history made like that.


----------



## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> poppin in to say I was waaaaay off.
> 
> joac tirx oldfan
> 
> ill be back tomorrow when I have more energy to eat crow


Ha... i won't dish out any more, I have been exactly where you were before plenty of times.


----------



## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

box said:


> Looking back now, Ronda's competition is laughable compared to who Weidman fought before he faced Silva. Ronda just has some serious freight train of hype behind her.


for sure, Ronda has some terrible terrible standup. Everything I said before the fight was so true, such bad head movement most of all. What was most surprising was Holm shook off her Judo throws like nothing, it was the turning point of the fight because Ronda is supposed to be unstoppable and Holm made her throws look foolish. 

Many of us knew Rondas striking was actually terrible but almost everyone thought her takedowns were unstoppable. Holly basically decided she'll eat whatever left hand strikes Ronda throws to circle away, actually worked for defending the Judo as well. It was a worse beat down than Silva vs. Weidman because Rousey was made to look like an amateur tonight, one of the most vicious and systematic beatdowns a champ with heavy odds has ever taken. Nobody's going to be saying there was anything unlucky about tonight, Holm even defended an armbar like it was nothing. WTF.... Holm was supposed to be a chump.


----------



## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I did not see that coming. Ronda looked terribly amateur.


Well, when you have average striking and choose to trade with a proven champion striker.... That can happen.


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Even with a better camp + strategy it'll be hard, but will certainly help Ronda game plan better. I definitely see Ronda's mom's point now. She's a world class athlete stuck in a local gym much like how Fedor was relying on pure talent and instincts. 

Lets face it, it looked like Holly was the champion and Ronda was a hot headed challenger. Wondering what's going through her mind right now and she'll return from this. 

Tate should get next crack at Holm. Ronda needs some time off regardless... Fortunately she's already made her millions and starring in blockbuster films.


----------



## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

Well, nearly 7am here. Time to rest my weary eyes. Well worth staying up. Both main events panned out differently to what most expected. Good for Holly, she messed Ronda up bad.


----------



## Glothin (Jun 8, 2010)

I'd laugh at Rhonda, and she deserves it...just not from me. She's more successful at her profession than I am mine, despite her competition. The way she tries to bully everyone and pretends she is an actor playing the role of a badass just rubs me the wrong way. 

Everyone needs some humble pie. I just like to eat mine and not get ktfo. I guess she laid there and was a do nothing chick.

She'll be back. The UFC will build her up as new, refreshed and determined. She'll probably be champ again.

Most importantly, congrats to Holly on a great victory that I certainly didn't see coming (though I was rooting for).


----------



## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

After the elbow the fight was over


----------



## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

My opinion hasn't changed from what I said a few days ago.



Trix said:


> Jake Ellenberger and Gegard Mousasi are two UFC fighters Edmond currently coaches, both of them were finished via kicks. Shayna Baszler was hurt with leg kicks and finished when Edmond was coaching her.
> 
> One might say Edmond has a history of coaching people who get finished by kicks. Maybe Edmond (being a pure boxing coach) doesn't know how to train defense against kicking techniques. It is possible Ronda only spars with pure boxers, she doesn't train enough with kickboxers to defend against kicking techniques.
> 
> There could be a hole in Ronda's game there that can be exploited.





Trix said:


> Well. This is what I see in Holm's fight with Reneau.
> 
> *1. Holm isn't fighting to impress anyone or earn finishes, she's using her fights in the UFC as tune up fights to prepare for Ronda.* If you watch Holm's UFC fights she shows her gameplan for Ronda, more on that below.
> 
> ...


I can't say I called it but the writing was on the wall.

If I did call it I would have bet a lot more on Holm than I did & it would've been money in the bank.



This could actually be good for Ronda. I hope she comes back stronger.


----------



## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> Tate should get next crack at Holm.


I am hoping for Holm/Tate and Rousey/Zingano.


----------



## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Trix said:


> My opinion hasn't changed from what I said a few days ago.


The kicks were not really what did it though... the counter lefts were what did Ronda in, that high kick was the icing.


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I honestly see Dana doing what he normally does with his golden stars and give Ronda an immediate title shot. Either that or Ronda goes into the WWE cause she has teased that. Regardless everything you said was correct.


----------



## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Joabbuac said:


> The kicks were not really what did it though... the counter lefts were what did Ronda in, that high kick was the icing.


I agree. Holm was landing that straight left at will.


----------



## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> I honestly see Dana doing what he normally does with his golden stars and give Ronda an immediate title shot. Either that or Ronda goes into the WWE cause she has teased that. Regardless everything you said was correct.


Thats what they will do... they will not risk Holm losing to anyone else and killing this rematch. 

But what happens if Holm wins again? Ronda would be done...


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Ronda looked terribly amateur.


Don't do that. She looked like unbeatable unstoppable, no competition, one of a kind, ronda. 
....and Holly Holm kicked her unbeatable ass with hardwork, skill and brains. 



rabakill said:


> Everything I said before the fight was so true,


:laugh: you kill me man :hug:




rabakill said:


> WTF.... Holm was supposed to be a chump.


only to the obtuse. :laugh:



...time for a new word of the day


----------



## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Joabbuac said:


> Thats what they will do... they will not risk Holm losing to anyone else and killing this rematch.
> 
> But what happens if Holm wins again? Ronda would be done...


2016 is the year of Mieshaaaaaa!!!


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Those left straights were landing cuz Ronda kept charging in. She was swinging wildly and her footwork was all over the place. On the other hand Holly's lateral movement, stance, and angling off was superb. Only question imo was how was she going to repel the clinch and armbar threat. Well guess it got answered. 

I'm very curious to see how Ronda does with a top tiered Kru, boxing coach, and camp with one year of training. For her to have an instant rematch is a big...big fallacy. We all knew her striking was rudimentary only masked by her judo skills. She is a top tiered athlete, she can learn so at least it's not so one sided in the striking department. THEN she can game plan to find the right opportunity to get it to the ground consistently. Not having a strong coaching team + strategy is what led to this outcome. That was a BEAT DOWN.


----------



## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Joabbuac said:


> The kicks were not really what did it though... the counter lefts were what did Ronda in, that high kick was the icing.


Those oblique kicks to the knee slowed Ronda down so Holm could hit her with straight punches. I might've got that part right.



Trix said:


> *5. Holm shows the oblique kick to the knee Jon Jones uses a few times in the fight*. She doesn't throw it to land with power, she just throws it out there from a distance as if she's trying to get comfortable using it in a real fight, under pressure. Its possible she's saving it for Ronda.


----------



## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> Those left straights were landing cuz Ronda kept charging in. She was swinging wildly and her footwork was all over the place.


No doubt... Ronda was giving her those shots, Holm's percentage on actually landing quality, clean shots to the head has always been pretty low, but nearly everything she landed against Ronda landed. 

Just reminds me of all this bullshit about Ronda having the skill to be a champion in boxing also. We just saw the true difference between Ronda's awful striking and a decent pro boxer.


----------



## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Trix said:


> Those oblique kicks to the knee slowed Ronda down so Holm could hit her with straight punches. I might've got that part right.



Yeah, nailed that one... anyone who gave Holm any kind of chance deserves some credit for that.


----------



## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Also, congrats to Cupcake for winning $25 mil!










:thumbsup:


----------



## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

The biggest mistake the UFC could make is to have an immediate rematch.

Having Holm beat Rousey creates another potential star. The UFC can now set Ronda on the "comeback" path, fighting a few less tiered opponents in mains or co mains and still making a shitload of money. Milk it for what its worth. Holm can fight the top challengers.

If Ronda rematches and loses, you destroy almost all her start appeal.


----------



## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Iuanes said:


> The biggest mistake the UFC could make is to have an immediate rematch.
> 
> Having Holm beat Rousey creates another potential star. The UFC can now set Ronda on the "comeback" path, fighting a few less tiered opponents in mains or co mains and still making a shitload of money. Milk it for what its worth. Holm can fight the top challengers.
> 
> If Ronda rematches and loses, you destroy almost all her start appeal.


But... The UFC is an extremely short sighted organization, so i fully expect an immediate rematch.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)




----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

The fight developed basically how I felt it would need to go for Holm to win. 

I said Holly would give Ronda this type of fight from jump street. 

The sherdog mma annalists shit the bed on this one, lol. Wonder what they'll say on after the bell to hide the lack of real journalism.


----------



## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

So uhhh... one person did predict this perfectly.


----------



## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Ronda looked terribly amateur.


She's always been amateur (outside of her amazing Judo, that is). Her competition was just even worse, until now.

This outcome made my evening.


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

You mean two people... ..


----------



## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Vid clip: http://webm.host/08b37/











Please please please, no immediate rematch. That ain't right.

(I fully expect an immediate rematch, tho  )


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Ronda Rousey got her reputation, hype and spotlights for being just so much better than the others. It's not her fault the gap between her and all the rest is that big, even knowing she relies on one main weapon to beat everyone, a la Royce Gracie.

Even though we know deep inside this is UFC 1 replayed, it looks like we tend to forget these girls are going after breaking their own limits and evolving in MMA. Women's MMA is a relativity new thing. 

For what we have seen regarding Ronda until now, it was almost inconceivable to have her losing to any of these girls on the UFC roster and the question was more like "how long she'll take to win next time?".

Now Holly Holm comes up with her own set of skills, a very well implemented game and will to do it, let alone mental toughness to go there before a crowded stadium and not having a psychological break up for facing the UFC icon, specially after Ronda pulled those antics at the weigh ins. Holly Holm didn't break mentally like others.

So, Holly Holm goes in there and not only makes the fight competitive, which would be already something never seen against Ronda, but she controls every aspect of the fight, set the pace, land several precise punches, didn't get desperate in clinch or on the ground, keeps beating the champ to knock her fecking out, and that's not impressive *because she wasn't facing a Machida?*

Interesting that when Weidman KOed Anderson to end his record win streak, he is so much better because he did what so many others couldn't, but Holly Holm having a performance that could easily be among the best in the year, against the undefeated RRR, is just "meh" for some. :confused02:


----------



## MK. (Dec 16, 2012)

Do you guys think that the re-match will be like the TJ-Barao one?

I for one i am confident that it will be exactly the same. Tj-Barao one and two at least was somewhat competitive occasionally, Ronda just can't fight Holm anywhere.

The only i see Ronda revenging her loss to Holm, is in some 5 years when the later declines physically.


----------



## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> Ronda Rousey got her reputation, hype and spotlights for being just so much better than the others. It's not her fault the gap between her and all the rest is that big, even knowing she relies on one main weapon to beat everyone, a la Royce Gracie.
> 
> but Holly Holm having a performance that could easily be among the best in the year, against the undefeated RRR, is just "meh" for some. :confused02:


> That big gap wasn't so much RRR being at some elite level, it was more because the rest of the division was at such a low level. That's all.

> Nothing "meh" about that performance, and I don't take anything away from Holm. Her skills are legit, totally. (I'd never seen her fight before, honestly, and had no opinion of her before this fight) Amazing + thrilling performance, IMHO. And that's the sort of thing that would have happened much earlier if the women's division was at an overall skill level on par with the men. Not their fault, it's in its infancy, relatively speaking.

RRR was a huge face for the UFC and no doubt has gotten a lot of girls into the sport. If DW can market Holm as well, I hope it does even more. Because at least Holm isn't a douche - she's got actual class. (Loved her reaction after the KO)

@ MK: I agree. If RRR doesn't rush in so much next time, it plays even more into Holm's hand. So what she has left is trying to get her down (which looked relatively futile) or getting her striking up to an actual "pro level" which is certainly possible, but depends on the timeframe. Not enough time if it's an immediate rematch. (which I expect but am 100% against)


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

One thing is that I never though it was smart for Rousey to basically play Holm's game. She obviously had the best game plan to take down the Rowdy one. If charging in doesn't take out Holly Holm I don't know what will.


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> Now Holly Holm comes up with her own set of skills, a very well implemented game and will to do it, let alone mental toughness to go there before a crowded stadium and not having a psychological break up for facing the UFC icon, specially after Ronda pulled those antics at the weigh ins. Holly Holm didn't break mentally like others.
> 
> So, Holly Holm goes in there and not only makes the fight competitive, which would be already something never seen against Ronda, but she controls every aspect of the fight, set the pace, land several precise punches, didn't get desperate in clinch or on the ground, keeps beating the champ to knock her fecking out,


I wished I watched more fights of her, but I did tell everyone that Holly is the superior striker, but based on performance and history the grapplers are usually able to dictate the pace thus I felt Ronda would at some point get into her zone and most likely win. She did and Holly repelled it. On top of that Holly also took her down. It wasn't competitive AT ALL. That's the sad part. At least Anderson landed half a dozen leg kicks which would slow down Weidman in the latter rounds. Ronda was utterly outclassed. Renan made it to four or five rounds before he finally succumbed.

I really wonder what Mighty Mouse and Aldo is thinking now. They're the only long standing champions left. 



MK. said:


> Do you guys think that the re-match will be like the TJ-Barao one?
> 
> I for one i am confident that it will be exactly the same. Tj-Barao one and two at least was somewhat competitive occasionally, Ronda just can't fight Holm anywhere.
> 
> The only i see Ronda revenging her loss to Holm, is in some 5 years when the later declines physically.


I was thinking the same exact thing. This is why Ronda should not do an immediate rematch. Career suicide. She needs two years before it should happen to recalibrate her game.


----------



## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Woodenhead said:


> @ MK: I agree. If RRR doesn't rush in so much next time, it plays even more into Holm's hand. So what she has left is trying to get her down (which looked relatively futile) or getting her striking up to an actual "pro level" which is certainly possible, but depends on the timeframe. Not enough time if it's an immediate rematch. (which I expect but am 100% against)


She doesn't have to get up to top notch level, all she needs are a solid grasp of the fundamentals. Case in point, Randy Couture. Randy didn't have anything close to the best striking in any of the divisions he fought in, but he had decent fundamentals and that was almost always enough to get him into the clinch where he wanted to be.

Just to use a quick example, basic punching technique, such as not leaving your head straight in the air. Take a page from the Randy Couture book; duck and/or slip to the side when throwing a right hand to close the gap, that way the opponent doesn't have an easy punch straight down the middle. That saves Ronda from getting punched clean in the face every time she tries to punch into the clinch. Give her a few easy things like that to work on and it's a completely different fight.


----------



## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

aerius said:


> She doesn't have to get up to top notch level, all she needs are a solid grasp of the fundamentals. Case in point, Randy Couture. Randy didn't have anything close to the best striking in any of the divisions he fought in, but he had decent fundamentals and that was almost always enough to get him into the clinch where he wanted to be.
> 
> Just to use a quick example, basic punching technique, such as not leaving your head straight in the air. Take a page from the Randy Couture book; duck and/or slip to the side when throwing a right hand to close the gap, that way the opponent doesn't have an easy punch straight down the middle. That saves Ronda from getting punched clean in the face every time she tries to punch into the clinch. Give her a few easy things like that to work on and it's a completely different fight.


Changing levels, head movement, footwork, feints, kicks, elbows all help to get in and get into some grappling. Ronda did none of that, she punched with her hands down and her chin up while plodding forward with her head stationary. It was amateurish.


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well remember that Rousey has never really displayed those kind of skills neither has she had to depend on them until last night.


----------



## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

...and those skills won't help much, if at all, when Holm is so much stronger. Like Couture vs. Lesnar.


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well remember that Holm didn't display brute force that much last night. Lesnar on the other hand depended alot on brute force in his fight with Couture. After all there were points when Randy was actually winning whereas Ronda was not in any way shape or form winning.


----------



## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

IDK, I saw a pretty equal balance of technique + power in Holm's performance. (clinching/ground)


----------



## MK. (Dec 16, 2012)

kantowrestler said:


> Well remember that Holm didn't display brute force that much last night. Lesnar on the other hand depended alot on brute force in his fight with Couture. After all there were points when Randy was actually winning whereas Ronda was not in any way shape or form winning.


To be fair, she didn't need to as she has the skills, in contrast to Lesnar who didn't have much skill in the stand up or anywhere for that matter.

Her strength to me was apparent every time Ronda tried to grapple her or take her down, Holm was having none of it. Then came the moment when she again tried to take her down and Holm just slammed her to the ground.

Holm is what Weidman is to Anderson, she won't ever beat her while she is in her prime, and for the next 2 years at least i don't see Holm slowing down. (her fitness exercises put me to shame..but then again i love pizza to much )


----------



## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Called it *Straight face*


Eating serious crow right now. I did NOT see that coming at all!

A few years ago I said that Holly Holm had a good chance of beating Ronda. Then she came to the UFC and her performances were far from inspiring, so I wrote her off completely. 

MAN!!!!!! I have never been so happy at the outcome of a fight. I must have watched it close to 30 times now and it never gets old.


EDIT: I noticed a few people on facebook and the like saying Ronda will easily smash her in the rematch if she comes in with a grappling game plan. What do you lot think about that? Personally, I feel Ronda will be easily baited into another beating on the feet and Holms kicks/movement will be enough to nulify any potential takedowns etc? Never thought I'd say that but it's hard to see a rematch going any differently.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Killz said:


> Called it *Straight face*
> 
> 
> Eating serious crow right now. I did NOT see that coming at all!
> ...


Me too. Asides from the KO my favourite part of the fight was Holy's reaction just after the ref stopped the fight, It was one of the great moments in MMA for me.

Holy wins the rematch. She has her number.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Killz said:


> Called it *Straight face*
> 
> 
> Eating serious crow right now. I did NOT see that coming at all!
> ...


Rematch would be radically different in my eyes, subject to a different coaching setup and gameplan. Running full retard into a counter puncher is the worst plan possible. It can only be better in a rematch. Whether she could improve enough in order to change the outcome of the fight remains to be seen, but Ronda is a very high level athlete and a workaholic. Holy Holm is definitely beatable.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

A short Judoka is going to have one hell of a time beating a tall boxer that can stop her judo. Rousey is going to have a real tough time.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Spite said:


> Me too. Asides from the KO my favourite part of the fight was Holy's reaction just after the ref stopped the fight, It was one of the great moments in MMA for me.
> 
> Holy wins the rematch. She has her number.


Oh you just reminded me. My absolute favourite part of the whole fight was when Holm slipped that punch in the 2nd and Rousey went winging into the cage like an idiot. raise01:



DonRifle said:


> Rematch would be radically different in my eyes, subject to a different coaching setup and gameplan. Running full retard into a counter puncher is the worst plan possible. It can only be better in a rematch. Whether she could improve enough in order to change the outcome of the fight remains to be seen, but Ronda is a very high level athlete and a workaholic. Holy Holm is definitely beatable.


I honestly Don't think Edmond is a good enough coach to make those changes. Im not saying Ronda can't change, but if she does it wont be down to his coaching.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Killz said:


> EDIT: I noticed a few people on facebook and the like saying Ronda will easily smash her in the rematch if she comes in with a grappling game plan. What do you lot think about that? Personally, I feel Ronda will be easily baited into another beating on the feet and Holms kicks/movement will be enough to nulify any potential takedowns etc? Never thought I'd say that but it's hard to see a rematch going any differently.


I said this before, but i think the strikeforce/early UFC Ronda would have a better chance, she barely even tried throwing strikes back then, she had no delusions of even being able to strike with girls like Carmouche or Tate. 

Feels like WMMA just went from the Gracie era to the Chuck Liddell era.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Nick Diaz has the best post fight analysis. Ronda should dump her dumbass coach and ask Nick to train her.



> Sick of people making such a big deal it was a simple mistake you can't be running in on tall people someone in her camp left that out !





> If she had of dun like I did my last fight they wouldn't have robbed her the way they did me


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Her head trainer should be Firaz. 

Jon Danaher as the Jitz coach + strategist. 

Kru Phil Nurse as the muay thai coach.

Freddy Roach as the boxing coach.

Daniel Cormier - wrestling

GSP as a mentor and sparring partner. GSP knows intimately the immense pressure of being champion and what it's like to fall hard.

Edmond as "head trainer." More of a figure head so she can surround herself with someone she's familiar with. If Edmond truly cares about his protege he needs to relinquish control and get her the training she needs to reclaim the throne. 

sparring partners
- GSP
- Rory
- Nick Diaz

With this line-up Ronda will become formidable. I can see Edmond is trying and means well, but is he competent enough presently and in the future to carry Ronda alone. The answer was all there including the post fight interview with GJ and Mike Winklejohn.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Best gif I've seen of the fight...


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

That's actually not far from accurate! lol


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Spite said:


> Best gif I've seen of the fight...


Damn...the Street Fighter reference was classic. Ouch town! My favorite ones are the Mortal Kombat ones. Fawk those are dope!

It would be pretty intriguing to see if Rousey beats her then go for the trilogy. Perhaps that's what is predestined to kick WMMA into overdrive. A lot more females are watching the sport now. Hate on Ronda, but she's bringing the numbers! :thumb02:


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Ronda has been a mixed bag because when she actually thinks she comes off as sweet. When she acts instinctively she comes off as a bitch. Then again she has the looks and has that heroes journey of adversity.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I feel like I should point out that in another thread I said I thought there was a chance Ronda would beat Holm with her boxing. Over the last 2 years, I got sucked into the hype. To be fair, even Holm wasn't really sparking girls like Bethe Correira before. I thought Holm would be in trouble a lot earlier with Ronda's punches, get stunned, and clinch. While obviously Holm surprised all of us with her TDD and and armbar defence, I was surprised at how aggressive she was.

Couple of things I should have saw in hindsight; we'd never seen Holm fighting someone who comes for her. She appears to be like Machida, destroying you if you're aggressive and having a terrible fight if you're not. Ronda Rousey is really mentally fragile, shown a bit by by her frustrations in the Miesha Tate fight. Lastly, even though pictures don't say the same looking back, I thought Ronda looked a little bit on the soft side of the weight ins and although she was getting tagged clean, she was shattered by the 3 minute mark.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

oldfan said:


> I'm hoping Holly can establish some distance, survive the first minute storm we all know is coming and land some good straight rights as ronda closes. Holly lights her up good with one of those rights and ronda freezes just long enough to land the biggest head kick in WMMA History!!


 I wanted to quote myself to show everyone how smart I am but what this actually shows is that I didn't even know Holly is a southpaw. :shame02:


It could be worse.... I wouldn't want to quote any of jonny's posts


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

oldfan said:


> I wanted to quote myself to show everyone how smart I am but what this actually shows is that I didn't even know Holly is a southpaw. :shame02:
> 
> 
> It could be worse.... I wouldn't want to quote any of jonny's posts


:laugh: I do that shit all the time with southpaws, looking there straight left a "right"


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

What does being a southpaw have to do with anything with this here fight? Holly Holm could've had a traditional stance and if she had the same game plan the result would've been the same. Doesn't really matter.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Alright, I popped in here fight night but had no energy or want to post more than a sentence. 

Props out to Joac and Trix and whoever else. I was way off. Holm apparently was much more ready (better coaching), Ronda's fight IQ looked abysmal. And Holm is much more of a fighter than I ever thought. 

Holm fought better than I ever thought she could or have ever seen her fight. She was rather decisive, strong at the point of attack, and offered shot that hurt very much in accumulation. 

In my opinion this ruins Ronda's place in history of MMA. She is not going to stick around and fight 20 more times and build a Hendo or Anderson type resume into their later years. 

I'm not sure what a rematch would look like. Maybe it is just styles. If Ronda was easily better than anyone by a mile, and now Holm a pro boxer later in her career who has 10 fights? A couple higher level fights....is able to stuff TDs and tosses? It offers a great rematch but shows how thin the division is. Maybe this will urge other top fighters from other disciplines (Judo, Boxing......wrestling-MT-BJJ) to start up MMA earlier. It is a throwback division of the old Grappler vs Striker matches. 

I wasn't interested in watching Holm much if she were to ever be champ, but if she can fight like this then I can get on board and get interested in her fights. She looked good out there and not nervous to be there.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

As I said before, Holly just looked bad previously stylistically. Luckily she should be exciting from this point on cause almost every woman around the top comes forward and puts on pressure, perfect for Holly.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> What does being a southpaw have to do with anything with this here fight? Holly Holm could've had a traditional stance and if she had the same game plan the result would've been the same. Doesn't really matter.


It changes the range and gives Holly less distance to start with, she won't have as much time to react with counters & circle off. It also opens up Ronda's usual jab to right hook entry into the clinch, in a orthodox vs. southpaw stance the lead hand is out there to parry, hand fight, and stuff the jab. To land a jab in that stance requires getting your lead foot to the inside of your opponent's lead foot, which you really don't want to do unless you're a high level striker because it lines up your face with their power hand.

The southpaw stance opens up the range and takes away Ronda's jab, it makes it harder for Ronda to get a clean entry into the clinch and at the same time it gives Holly more time to counter and circle away.

It's hard to say how much it matters, maybe it doesn't matter and the end result is the same. Maybe having a bit less distance to close would allow Ronda to get the clinch 1 or 2 more times, and that might be enough to get the takedown and armbar.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I guess you are correct but there was a point where Holly actually ducked away from Ronda remember. Charging forward can bring a different kind of pressure but Holly had the better game plan. Yes you have a point though.


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