# VIDEO: Jake Ellenberger: Nick Diaz won't beat GSP



## kickstar (Nov 12, 2009)




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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Everyone knows Diaz probably wont win but wow, Ellenberger gives Diaz 0 respect.

I'd like to see Diaz vs. Ellenberger happen. Diaz could show him how effective his "slap box" game really is. Diaz would sit on the outside picking Ellenberger apart all fight, IMO.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

Yep I agree with Ellenberger and I would love to see him face Diaz, what a fight. GSP vs Diaz is too easy and GSP beats him 10/10 but vs Ellenberger would be a great exciting fight.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

People start leaning left and right when they lie.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Ellenberger would hurt Diaz standing and GnP him to a decision. Ellenberger is a goddamn monster and Diaz hasn't had to face a wrestler in ages.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

I love ellenburger as a fighter but stfu, you're just mad because you wanna beat gsp and diaz hurt BJ who isn't even your friend like you are trying to imply. GSP only has to weapons and that is wrestling and elbows on the ground. Diaz will win this I guaran-damn-tee it.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Seems like Ellenberger just dislikes the guy and thats why he has such a strong opinion. He couldn't even find words to say about Diaz.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Ellenberger has natural power and is high on knocking out Shields, but he has nowhere near the striking ability of Diaz and if he truly has no respect for Diaz' boxing, he is an idiot.

"Slap-box game", what a dumbass. Not everyone is blessed with heavy punches, every time you see Diaz drop or rock someone, it's because he applies crisp technique and consistant pressure, and Ellenberger can match him at neither of those.


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

Wow you're picking GSP over Diaz, what a savant.

Actually I wouldn't mind seeing Ellenberger fight Diaz, stylistically, it's a very bad matchup for Diaz, I think Jake wins that matchup. But it's pretty obvious he is just peeved he got bumped back on the title shot, so you can't take what he says too seriously.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Ellenberger would just ragdoll him to the ground and beat his face in.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Ellenberger should keep his ******* mouth shut. Hey buddy, you just beat a guy who had lost his father just two weeks prior to the fight, and was still man enough to get in the cage and fight you. Shut the **** up.

Diaz would box him up silly on the feet and once he doesn't like that any more, he'd desperately take Diaz down and then his sloppy ass ground game would cost him a submission loss.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Ellenberger should keep his ******* mouth shut. Hey buddy, you just beat a guy who had lost his father just two weeks prior to the fight, and was still man enough to get in the cage and fight you. Shut the **** up.
> 
> Diaz would box him up silly on the feet and once he doesn't like that any more, he'd desperately take Diaz down and then his sloppy ass ground game would cost him a submission loss.


Shields lost because Ellenberger is a lot better than he is not because his father died. Ellenberger has a problem with these cesar gracie guys getting title shots before him. Shields shouldn't have gotten a title shot and he thinks Diaz will just get trounced so there is no reason for the fight.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Man, do any of these fighters really think about what they are saying? Doesn't he realize that running his mouth about Diaz running his mouth is just plain low IQ hypocracy? Reminds me of Mr Humble Christian, Nate Marquart.

Surely, the humble thing to do is say nothing, simply pick up the phone, call Joe Silva, and insist on any fight you want. Thats humble. Publicly running your mouth is not.

Why do I care? Berger rocks. As a fighter, hes mighty impressive. I'm a fan.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

osmium said:


> Shields lost because Ellenberger is a lot better than he is not because his father died. Ellenberger has a problem with these cesar gracie guys getting title shots before him. Shields shouldn't have gotten a title shot and he thinks Diaz will just get trounced so there is no reason for the fight.


You're a fool if you don't think Shields father dying had any thing to do with that loss. I'm not saying he wouldn't have lost any ways, but it played a huge part in his psychological game. If my dad had just died I wouldn't want to leave my god damn house, let alone sign up for one of the biggest fights of my career. Show some respect and courtesy.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> You're a fool if you don't think Shields father dying had any thing to do with that loss. I'm not saying he wouldn't have lost any ways, but it played a huge part in his psychological game. If my dad had just died I wouldn't want to leave my god damn house, let alone sign up for one of the biggest fights of my career. Show some respect and courtesy.


If only Jake's father didn't die he would have been able to absorb that knee to his face and the skull smashing that followed.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Don't knock it, osmium. Grief always makes it easier for you to be knocked out. It's science. It was especially obvious with what it did to that fluid, elusive striker Jake Shields...

Edit: Just saw your reply, McKeever. Pull back on being a raging troll Shileds fanboy there.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

No I'm just not a crazy person who thinks magic makes things happen. He was dropped 5 times in the three fights previous to that one. Were those knockdowns due to the fact that his father was alive?


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

osmium said:


> No I'm just not a crazy person who thinks magic makes things happen. He was dropped 5 times in the three fights previous to that one. Were those knockdowns due to the fact that his father was alive?


The crazy person here is you Osmium. You're the one that needs help. A guy 28 or some thing years old guy who worships a fighter(s) (Anderson Silva, Badr Hari) like he is Jesus Christ. A man who thinks that another man's father dying would have no psychological effect on one of the biggest fights in his career and played no role in the fight itself. I'm definitely not the crazy one. You want to sit here and make fun of the situation, you do that. You'll eventually get what's coming to you, and you won't like it.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Certainly an argument can be made that Shields didn't have the proper training camp due to his father passing. That is just speculation though as I don't believe details of his camp were released.

I don't think that had much effect on the fight though. Ellenberger was just a better fighter. If they fought again I would expect a similar result.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> Don't knock it, osmium. Grief always makes it easier for you to be knocked out. It's science. It was especially obvious with what it did to that fluid, elusive striker Jake Shields...
> 
> Edit: Just saw your reply, McKeever. Pull back on being a raging troll Shileds fanboy there.


I can't stand Jake Shields and picked Ellenberger to win the fight. I'm still a human being though and understand basic human emotion.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> The crazy person here is you Osmium. You're the one that needs help. A guy 28 or some thing years old guy who worships a fighter(s) (Anderson Silva, Badr Hari) like he is Jesus Christ. A man who thinks that another man's father dying would have no psychological effect on one of the biggest fights in his career and played no role in the fight itself. I'm definitely not the crazy one. You want to sit here and make fun of the situation, you do that. You'll eventually get what's coming to you, and you won't like it.


Being sad doesn't make you easier to knockout. A guy with shit standup who had been dropped 5 times in his past 3 fights was fighting a guy with power and great takedown defense. That was ending the same way with or without his father dying.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

*All of you guys calm down. Infractions have been handed out to those who've earned them, please keep this thread on track or it will be closed

Thank you*


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

osmium said:


> Being sad doesn't make you easier to knockout. A guy with shit standup who had been dropped 5 times in his past 3 fights was fighting a guy with power and great takedown defense. That was ending the same way with or without his father dying.





> Originally posted by *Mckeever*
> Note to all MMAF members: Do not engage in a discussion with Osmium about any of the following fighters:
> 
> Anderson Silva
> ...


Should have just taken my own advice.


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

Ellenberger strted running his mouth about Nick right after post conference at UFC 137. (During the Post) Nick Said his Man, Jake Shields wasn't out in his fight versus Ellenberger and it was a bad stoppage by the ref. He went out to say that Ellenberger doesn't hit that hard ,and Sjields dropped to grab a leg and then the ref just jumped in a switched places with Ellenberger. He was saying Shields can't be KO'd...If Hendo didn't do it, ho it Ellenberger going to. Nick Just went off on a RANT..about that fight..which was kinda funny.

Ellenberger can say what he wants, but I know 100% this is what has him pissed off. It's not that he beat down BJ Penn..Please!!! He feels Nick disrespected him. But in all honesty. Nick was just bieng Nick. I mean why was he even talking about that fight..LOL:confused03:


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> You're a fool if you don't think Shields father dying had any thing to do with that loss. I'm not saying he wouldn't have lost any ways, but it played a huge part in his psychological game. If my dad had just died I wouldn't want to leave my god damn house, let alone sign up for one of the biggest fights of my career. Show some respect and courtesy.







Athletes also have remarkable games after these things, some people are just built differently. To take away Ellenbergers win because of that is not even fair, if Jake Shields knew he wasn't emotionally into the fight, he should have backed out. He wins that fight, he gets praised, he loses that fight, Ellenberger gets the shaft. Not fair.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Wishful thinking.

Diaz is a much harder fight for Jake than GSP is. Hes aware.



osmium said:


> Being sad doesn't make you easier to knockout. A guy with shit standup who had been dropped 5 times in his past 3 fights was fighting a guy with power and great takedown defense. That was ending the same way with or without his father dying.



Agree totally. Shields' wrestling just stinks. That fight wasn't too hard to call for me.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

UFC_OWNS said:


> I love ellenburger as a fighter but stfu, you're just mad because you wanna beat gsp and diaz hurt BJ who isn't even your friend like you are trying to imply. GSP only has to weapons and that is wrestling and elbows on the ground. Diaz will win this I guaran-damn-tee it.


lol, wow. Just like people were guaranteeing me Shields was going to dominate GSP I have to say you are going to be shocked when GSP makes another contender look like an amateur. GSP has to injure himself somehow to lose this fight, otherwise Diaz stands literally 0%. I'd bet any amount of money on it.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Spec0688 said:


> Athletes also have remarkable games after these things, some people are just built differently. To take away Ellenbergers win because of that is not even fair, if Jake Shields knew he wasn't emotionally into the fight, he should have backed out. He wins that fight, he gets praised, he loses that fight, Ellenberger gets the shaft. Not fair.


In violent contact sports your father dying recently doesn't impact your play in any way the only thing it could impact is preparation. When you are thrown into a maelstrom you aren't thinking about how much you miss your dad. The human mind doesn't work like that.


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## Scarecrow (Mar 20, 2008)

This thread sucks. As do most of the posts contained therein.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

osmium said:


> In violent contact sports your father dying recently doesn't impact your play in any way the only thing it could impact is preparation. When you are thrown into a maelstrom you aren't thinking about how much you miss your dad. The human mind doesn't work like that.


But when you have someone beating on your face, you have time to think about your father?

Really, I don't see how it applies to one and not the other.

Brett Favre's father died the day before the game, it would still be fresh in his mind.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I'd take Ellenberger as long as he fights smart and doesn't gas. BUT I can see Nick surpising people...the most credible wins for me was against Zaromskis and Daley. Penn of course, but you know what BJ won the 1st round. Why did he lose the 2nd and 3rd...EASY...just look at his career at welter weight. He ALWAYS...ALWAYS gasses.
BJ has himself to blame. He couldn't keep up the pace for at least TWO rounds to take the UD. Then he got lit up like a punching bag...sadly. Hats off to Nick, but BJ should have won. Maybe it's time to hire Marinovich again.

- GSP first fight
- Hughes 2nd fight
- Jon Fitch - 3rd round

At 155 his conditioning is far better. Guess the extra 15 pounds weighs on him.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Ellenberger should keep his ******* mouth shut. Hey buddy, you just beat a guy who had lost his father just two weeks prior to the fight, and was still man enough to get in the cage and fight you. Shut the **** up.


What does this have to do with anything he said about Diaz?




Mckeever said:


> You're a fool if you don't think Shields father dying had any thing to do with that loss. I'm not saying he wouldn't have lost any ways, but it played a huge part in his psychological game. If my dad had just died I wouldn't want to leave my god damn house, let alone sign up for one of the biggest fights of my career. Show some respect and courtesy.


You have no idea, only assumptions.






Mckeever said:


> The crazy person here is you Osmium. You're the one that needs help. A guy 28 or some thing years old guy who worships a fighter(s) (Anderson Silva, Badr Hari) like he is Jesus Christ..



In other words you're interrupting my mmaforum experience.


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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

Omaha vs Stockton

UH OH!


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

There are absolutely *ZERO* chances that Nick will win this fight!!

If he does, the Sport is definitely rigged!!


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> There are absolutely *ZERO* chances that Nick will win this fight!!
> 
> If he does, the Sport is definitely rigged!!


Our sig bet still counting for this fight?


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

M_D said:


> Our sig bet still counting for this fight?


Anyday, Anytime!!


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

Jake Ellenberger - He won't beat Diaz OR GSP.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mirage445 said:


> Jake Ellenberger - He won't beat Diaz OR GSP.


Disagree! Ellenberger can Wrestle lol Diaz is f.ucked.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> Disagree! Ellenberger can Wrestle lol Diaz is f.ucked.


It amazes me how you think people will listen to you after all the times you have been wrong about diaz among other fights.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

BobbyCooper said:


> Disagree! Ellenberger can Wrestle lol Diaz is f.ucked.


Penn had much better wrestling than Diaz has, what happened in that fight?

Fact is, Penn was a tougher fight stylistically than GSP is for Nick. Penn had the chin, the power, the striking, the wrestling, and the BJJ, all of which matched or surpassed Nick on paper.

Nick has better striking, a better chin, (much) better BJJ than GSP, and the cardio to put a constant, 24/7 pace on GSP. Stylistically and on paper, Nick beats GSP. How that will turn out in the actual fight, however, is to be seen. 

I don't know who will win, but I do know that Nick has a better shot stylistically against GSP than Penn, and we all saw how the Penn fight went.


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## guycanada (Dec 13, 2008)

Kinda like Owns is always wrong about GSP...

The hate for one guy is blinding. Im sure we can find quotes for the Shields fight, Koscheck fight, Hardy, and so on.

I'm not sure what the champ has to do to earn the deserved respect,

As for Ellenberger vs Diaz, Ellenberger has the power and the wrestling, two things that could give Diaz problems,

Shields is a good fighter, he got caught, it can happen and has happen to anyone/everyone. Getting Ko'd doesn't mean the other guy is better than you overall, it means he had your number in that fight.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

guycanada said:


> Kinda like Owns is always wrong about GSP...
> 
> The hate for one guy is blinding. Im sure we can find quotes for the Shields fight, Koscheck fight, Hardy, and so on.
> 
> ...


stfu I was wrong one time about GSP and that was against shields which GSP got beat up in standing and if grappled like he should have he could have won.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

M.C said:


> Penn had much better wrestling than Diaz has, what happened in that fight?
> 
> Fact is, Penn was a tougher fight stylistically than GSP is for Nick. Penn had the chin, the power, the striking, the wrestling, and the BJJ, all of which matched or surpassed Nick on paper.
> 
> ...


I really have to tell you this out of all the member on this board M.C?? Really?

Penn was completely out after the first round which he completely dominated in every single aspect of MMA.

He gassed out at the start of the second round already.. it's a shame for such an amazing fighter.

You are nothing, it doesn't matter how good you are when you can't breath after 5 minutes.


Same reason why Shogun got destroyed the same way against a rookie standup fighter.

Same reason why Forrest beat his ass down.



Penn vs. Diaz first Round!

You can SEE who the far superior fighter is lol



Ridiculous that I have to tell people all the freakin time that wihtout Cardio it doesn't matter how good you are. You will get beat up at this level against either one!!


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

UFC_OWNS said:


> stfu I was wrong one time about GSP and that was against shields which GSP got beat up in standing and if grappled like he should have he could have won.


Denial is an ugly thing.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

M.C said:


> Penn had much better wrestling than Diaz has, what happened in that fight?
> 
> Fact is, Penn was a tougher fight stylistically than GSP is for Nick. Penn had the chin, the power, the striking, the wrestling, and the BJJ, all of which matched or surpassed Nick on paper.
> 
> ...


In a boxing match GSP would probably lose
In a BJJ match GSP would probably lose

in an mma fight? GSP wins every time, that's why he's the champ. He is the master of gameplans, how will he beat Diaz? Shove him against the cage for the first round, tire his arms out like he did to BJ. Once that happens Diaz is done, Diaz's pitter patter style will only work when he still has strength. Diaz has cardio, but he lacks explosiveness and once his strength in his very weak arms is gone he's pretty much defenseless standing. GSP is going to have to lay down on his face for Diaz to win after the first. Diaz's cardio comes in the form of longterm small exertions, put against GSP explosive endurance he's screwed. All GSP has to do is take away his speed which is both obvious and easy for him to do, there's nothing Diaz will be able to do stop him. In the second round Diaz's punches are going to be so weak from trying to hold GSP off of him that they will pose literally no danger.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

*Once again (This is getting old) keep it civil up in here*


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

BobbyCooper said:


> I really have to tell you this out of all the member on this board M.C?? Really?
> 
> Penn was completely out after the first round which he completely dominated in every single aspect of MMA.
> 
> ...


I never said anything about Penn gassing. I said that Penn should have won that fight on paper, and he didn't. There are a lot of things that can happen in a fight, a lot of things that we don't predict/game-plans that we aren't expecting, etc. Look at Penn vs. Fitch, who in their right mind thought Penn would come out and take Fitch down?

All "on paper" advantages go out the window, which is my whole point. Penn was supposed to beat Diaz, and he did not. Diaz is supposed to beat GSP on paper as well, but again, as I stated, "I'm not predicting who will win". I'm just making an observation that on paper that Penn was a tougher fight for Diaz than GSP is.



rabakill said:


> In a boxing match GSP would probably lose
> In a BJJ match GSP would probably lose
> 
> in an mma fight? GSP wins every time, that's why he's the champ. He is the master of gameplans, how will he beat Diaz? Shove him against the cage for the first round, tire his arms out like he did to BJ. Once that happens Diaz is done, Diaz's pitter patter style will only work when he still has strength. Diaz has cardio, but he lacks explosiveness and once his strength in his very weak arms is gone he's pretty much defenseless standing. GSP is going to have to lay down on his face for Diaz to win after the first. Diaz's cardio comes in the form of longterm small exertions, put against GSP explosive endurance he's screwed. All GSP has to do is take away his speed which is both obvious and easy for him to do, there's nothing Diaz will be able to do stop him. In the second round Diaz's punches are going to be so weak from trying to hold GSP off of him that they will pose literally no danger.


So... GSP's plan is to lay on Diaz for another decision? I have no doubt that GSP is an amazing decision-point fighter, it's what he is, and I 100% agree that's GSP's game-plan, to wear him down and go for another boring decision.

Which is why I said "on paper" Diaz has the advantages in more areas, which is why I also said "I'm not saying who will win". I'm just pointing out that on paper Diaz beats GSP.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

M.C said:


> So... GSP's plan is to lay on Diaz for another decision? I have no doubt that GSP is an amazing decision-point fighter, it's what he is, and I 100% agree that's GSP's game-plan, to wear him down and go for another boring decision.
> 
> Which is why I said "on paper" Diaz has the advantages in more areas, which is why I also said "I'm not saying who will win". I'm just pointing out that on paper Diaz beats GSP.


hmm... let's see where I said that? nowhere, don't insult my intelligence. And on paper Diaz doesn't beat GSP in an mma match, on paper he beats GSP in a boxing match.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

M.C said:


> Penn had much better wrestling than Diaz has, what happened in that fight?
> 
> Fact is, Penn was a tougher fight stylistically than GSP is for Nick. Penn had the chin, the power, the striking, the wrestling, and the BJJ, all of which matched or surpassed Nick on paper.
> 
> ...


Penn's wrestling is decent at best, he's not a wrestler. Ellenberger and GSP are. 

Diaz and his stockton boxing are going to look very pretty decorating the shelf when he spends the whole night on his back against GSP eating elbows. GSP is going to **** him up like no one else, Diaz ensured that with his consistent baiting. 

His "active" guard doesn't mean jack, every elite MMA fighter with half a training camp has figured out this obsolete guard stuff years ago. Diaz's active guard will serve him just as well as the last two black belts (BJ and Serra) with an "active guard", that GSP made turtle up just to make to pain end. And they didn't even piss him off as much as this wannabe thug did.

And Ellenberger would too. Diaz is just riding high on facing a bunch of guys that want to stand with him. People forget how easily he was drummed out of the UFC in his last run by a bunch of wrestlers. I suppose MMA fans memories really do go back only 2 fights.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

rabakill said:


> hmm... let's see where I said that? nowhere, don't insult my intelligence. And on paper Diaz doesn't beat GSP in an mma match, on paper he beats GSP in a boxing match.


On paper Diaz has better striking, better cardio, and better BJJ. GSP takes him down? GSP gets submitted, GSP keeps it standing? GSP gets TKO'd. GSP's only advatnage on paper is his wrestling.

On paper, GSP loses to Nick. As for decision, you stated GSP will push him against the fence and wear him down, lay on top of him and wear him down, etc. That's point fighting, that's what GSP does to everyone, win decisions via points. Obviously since that's how GSP fights, I assumed that's what you were talking about.



Liddellianenko said:


> Penn's wrestling is decent at best, he's not a wrestler. Ellenberger and GSP are.
> 
> Diaz and his stockton boxing are going to look very pretty decorating the shelf when he spends the whole night on his back against GSP eating elbows. GSP is going to **** him up like no one else, Diaz ensured that with his consistent baiting.
> 
> ...


Penn has great wrestling. Everyone Penn has ever tried to take down, he took down. Everyone. Including the much larger, much "better" wrestler in Fitch. Penn has great wrestling, he's just not known for it because his other skills are so good.

GSP is going to take him down? That's great. He'll win another decision, it's not out of the question. On paper he'll get submitted being on top, of course, but again, that's on paper, my entire point.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> Penn's wrestling is decent at best, he's not a wrestler. Ellenberger and GSP are.
> 
> Diaz and his stockton boxing are going to look very pretty decorating the shelf when he spends the whole night on his back against GSP eating elbows. GSP is going to **** him up like no one else, Diaz ensured that with his consistent baiting.
> 
> ...


Sorry but for the last fooking time penn and serra don't have active guards you people need to learn what bjj really is if you think they do have active guards, penn just lays on his ass until he sees an opportunity to get up, serra is a little better because he occasionally tries to sweep, diaz goes for sweeps,subs,standups,strikes and bait and switches. That is a huge difference and you will see in this fight what I mean.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

On paper, GSP is the better striker, the better athlete, the better wrestler, the better fighter.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

M.C said:


> On paper Diaz has better striking, better cardio, and better BJJ. GSP takes him down? GSP gets submitted, GSP keeps it standing? GSP gets TKO'd. GSP's only advatnage on paper is his wrestling.
> 
> On paper, GSP loses to Nick. As for decision, you stated GSP will push him against the fence and wear him down, lay on top of him and wear him down, etc. That's point fighting, that's what GSP does to everyone, win decisions via points. Obviously since that's how GSP fights, I assumed that's what you were talking about.
> 
> ...


No, you're just making your opinions sound like common sense by adding "on paper". No sane style analyst thinks GSP is going to get submitted from the bottom when he has NEVER been submitted from the bottom IN HIS ENTIRE DECADE LONG CAREER. Especially not by a guy that lost 3 straight in the UFC being controlled by FAR inferior wrestlers. Adding "on paper" doesn't make it public perception, it's still just your opinion.

As for BJ succeeding in taking down everyone he tried, how convenient that apart from Fitch he's only ever tried to take down guys with garbage TDD. Fitch, he landed a fluke takedown by surprise because that's the last thing Fitch expected,and it didn't last very long. The later rounds showed exactly who the better wrestler was by far. Other than that, BJ has never tried to take down anybody with decent TDD, he just tries to stand. His wrestling is clearly just ok. Not bad, but not great.

And yes, even ok wrestling BJ had Diaz down and controlled... he just didn't have the size to maintain that position. For all his skill, BJ is still basically a pudgy jumped up LW. If GSP had that position, that would've been the round, rinse and repeat.

If you're really so confident in whatever paper analysis you've got going there, I would love to sig bet you on it.




UFC_OWNS said:


> Sorry but for the last fooking time penn and serra don't have active guards you people need to learn what bjj really is if you think they do have active guards, penn just lays on his ass until he sees an opportunity to get up, serra is a little better because he occasionally tries to sweep, diaz goes for sweeps,subs,standups,strikes and bait and switches. That is a huge difference and you will see in this fight what I mean.


Just like his last 3 fights against wrestlers? The sig bet offer holds for you too my friend, what better way to see what you mean.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> No, you're just making your opinions sound like common sense by adding "on paper". No sane style analyst thinks GSP is going to get submitted from the bottom when he has NEVER been submitted from the bottom IN HIS ENTIRE DECADE LONG CAREER. Especially not by a guy that lost 3 straight in the UFC being controlled by FAR inferior wrestlers. Adding "on paper" doesn't make it public perception, it's still just your opinion.
> 
> As for BJ succeeding in taking down everyone he tried, how convenient that apart from Fitch he's only ever tried to take down guys with garbage TDD. Fitch, he landed a fluke takedown by surprise because that's the last thing Fitch expected,and it didn't last very long. The later rounds showed exactly who the better wrestler was by far. Other than that, BJ has never tried to take down anybody with decent TDD, he just tries to stand. His wrestling is clearly just ok. Not bad, but not great.
> 
> ...


I'll take the bet, if you watched the last 3 fights against wrestlers he actually won all of those but the judges screwed him each and every time, he beat karo, he beat riggs and he beat sherk, and this was when he was only a PURPLE belt, he is a black belt now and leaps and bounds better there, hell even purple belt nick could give GSP fits, every one always looks for an excuse of why nick's last opponent sucked and should have beaten nick so I am not surprised.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> No, you're just making your opinions sound like common sense by adding "on paper". No sane style analyst thinks GSP is going to get submitted from the bottom when he has NEVER been submitted from the bottom IN HIS ENTIRE DECADE LONG CAREER. Especially not by a guy that lost 3 straight in the UFC being controlled by FAR inferior wrestlers. Adding "on paper" doesn't make it public perception, it's still just your opinion.
> 
> As for BJ succeeding in taking down everyone he tried, how convenient that apart from Fitch he's only ever tried to take down guys with garbage TDD. Fitch, he landed a fluke takedown by surprise because that's the last thing Fitch expected,and it didn't last very long. The later rounds showed exactly who the better wrestler was by far. Other than that, BJ has never tried to take down anybody with decent TDD, he just tries to stand. His wrestling is clearly just ok. Not bad, but not great.
> 
> ...


You're not understanding my post at all, are you?

I'm not claiming Diaz is going to beat GSP because he's better on paper, I'm saying on paper he's better. Penn was better on paper than Diaz, and Diaz still won. My entire point is, "on paper" doesn't always translate into the actual fight, which is why this fight is interesting.

As for getting subbmitted, when was the last time GSP was in the guard of someone who is dangerous on their back? Serra is not? Penn has never subbed anyone from his back? When was the last time GSP was in a guard that was actually dangerous? That answer is never. 

Also, that's just an excuse. Fitch didn't lose his wrestling ability when Penn pushed him against the cage and went for a takedown. Was he expecting it? No, but does that mean he didn't try to defend it? No, he tried, and he couldn't.


----------



## guycanada (Dec 13, 2008)

I can all but hear the Chael-esque challenge coming down the shoot,

One where someone asks Owns to leave the forum forever..


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

guycanada said:


> I can all but hear the Chael-esque challenge coming down the shoot,
> 
> One where someone asks Owns to leave the forum forever..


Aww you mad cos I negged you for being a lying poster.


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

M.C said:


> You're not understanding my post at all, are you?
> 
> I'm not claiming Diaz is going to beat GSP because he's better on paper, I'm saying on paper he's better. Penn was better on paper than Diaz, and Diaz still won. My entire point is, "on paper" doesn't always translate into the actual fight, which is why this fight is interesting.


And I'm saying he's not better on paper, in reality, or an alternate universe. That is your biased opinion, it has no logic behind it. It's not a matter of Diaz being better on paper but the fight may play out differently, it's a matter of Diaz is clearly the weaker fighter any way you look at it, and yet another guy that GSP will destroy and send back into oblivion once the hype is exposed.



M.C said:


> Also, that's just an excuse. Fitch didn't lose his wrestling ability when Penn pushed him against the cage and went for a takedown. Was he expecting it? No, but does that mean he didn't try to defend it? No, he tried, and he couldn't.



So one successful takedown and then turtling on your back for the rest of the fight makes you a wrestler nowadays? You're right my excuses are terrible, clearly Penn should've been on the Olympics wrestling squad.



M.C said:


> As for getting subbmitted, when was the last time GSP was in the guard of someone who is dangerous on their back? Serra is not? Penn has never subbed anyone from his back? When was the last time GSP was in a guard that was actually dangerous? That answer is never.


Serra has a very dangerous guard and excellent sweeps and defense, his early wins were almost exclusively submissions from guard, and his ADCC creds are spectacular. 

Diaz, with all his flopping around from his "tactfully dangerous" guard that seems to impress people, has ZERO grappling accolades. His submissions all came against B-levels. Against UFC level competition, he has consistently failed when put on his back, especially against wrestlers.

I mean you ask me to look back at the last time GSP was in a dangerous guard and I show you. But why don't you show me the last time Diaz beat a wrestler? I'll toss your answer right back at you: NEVER.

No answer on the sig bet?


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Aww you mad cos I negged you for being a lying poster.


Will there be a day when we don't have to read this crap? Seriously he has not had a civil conversation in my memory on this forum.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> And I'm saying he's not better on paper, in reality, or an alternate universe. That is your biased opinion, it has no logic behind it. It's not a matter of Diaz being better on paper but the fight may play out differently, it's a matter of Diaz is clearly the weaker fighter and yet another guy that GSP will destroy and send back into oblivion once the hype is exposed.
> 
> So one successful takedown and then turtling on your back for the rest of the fight makes you a wrestler nowadays? You're right my excuses are terrible, clearly Penn should've been on the Olympics wrestling squad.
> 
> ...


On paper Diaz has the better striking, he has the better (much better) BJJ, and has better cardio. On paper, looking at this, it means if the fight stays tanding, GSP loses the striker (he has worse striking on paper), it means if GSP takes him down and flops in his guard, he'll get submitted (he has worse BJJ and less grappling on paper), it means if he tries to push Diaz to wear him out, it won't work because Diaz has better cardio. 

That's what on paper means, it means if someone has better striking, on paper he should win the striking, if he has better BJJ and it hits the ground, he should submit the guy. On paper, Diaz has the advantage. If you wish to disagree then that's fine, I couldn't care less.

One successful takedown? As I said, he's taken down everyone he's tried to take down including Fitch. That's all I need to say. If you want to pretend that Penn doesn't have good wrestling because he doesn't have wrestling credentials or that a much larger guy in Fitch reversed the position, then that's cool.

Serra does not have a dangerous back game. Serra has 1 triangle choke win back in 2002 against Kelly "Psycho" Dullanty, whoever the hell that is. He was no threat to GSP on his back, none, and that's not because GSP has great BJJ, it's because Serra isn't a threat on his back. GSP has never faced anyone with a good back game.

I never said that Nick has beat a great wrestler, where did I say that? You're not understanding my post *at all*, are you?

I'm not saying Nick will beat GSP, I'm saying on paper Diaz is better.


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

Only part I disagree with is saying Diaz has better striking.

Diaz has better Boxing. GSPs striking is far more versatile.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

M.C said:


> I never said anything about Penn gassing. I said that Penn should have won that fight on paper, and he didn't. There are a lot of things that can happen in a fight, a lot of things that we don't predict/game-plans that we aren't expecting, etc. Look at Penn vs. Fitch, who in their right mind thought Penn would come out and take Fitch down?
> 
> All "on paper" advantages go out the window, which is my whole point. Penn was supposed to beat Diaz, and he did not. Diaz is supposed to beat GSP on paper as well, but again, as I stated, "I'm not predicting who will win". I'm just making an observation that on paper that Penn was a tougher fight for Diaz than GSP is.
> 
> ...


I'm not even gonna bother explaining to you why GSP is an even *far* worse matchup than Penn was, not saying that BJ isn't the far superior fighter as well. He is much better than Diaz. Just watch the first Round of their fight JEsus Christ lol rolleyes..

Like I already mentioned.. without Cardio you are NOTHING!!

No matter how good you are!!! If GSP gasses out after the first Round like Penn did, he's gonna lose 10 out of 10 times.

But GSP is a professional unlike BJ and he cares about what he's doing unlike Penn..


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> I'm not even gonna bother explaining to you why GSP is an even *far* worse matchup than Penn was, not saying that BJ isn't the far superior fighter as well. He is much better than Diaz.
> 
> Like I already mentioned.. without Cardio you are NOTHING!!
> 
> ...


Silly cooper bad picks are for kids.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

M.C said:


> On paper Diaz has the better striking, he has the better (much better) BJJ, and has better cardio. On paper, looking at this, it means if the fight stays tanding, GSP loses the striker (he has worse striking on paper), it means if GSP takes him down and flops in his guard, he'll get submitted (he has worse BJJ and less grappling on paper), it means if he tries to push Diaz to wear him out, it won't work because Diaz has better cardio.
> 
> That's what on paper means, it means if someone has better striking, on paper he should win the striking, if he has better BJJ and it hits the ground, he should submit the guy. On paper, Diaz has the advantage. If you wish to disagree then that's fine, I couldn't care less.
> 
> ...


You're not understanding my post either are you? Let me spell is out ... Nick Diaz is better NOWHERE on paper than GSP. 

GSP has the better striking. Diaz couldn't throw a decent kick to save his life, whereas GSP has comparable boxing but more importantly a full versatile striking base with kicks, superman punches, spinning attacks and most of all a massive speed and explosiveness advantage. 

GSP is also better on the ground. Taking one facet of ground fighting (BJJ) and claiming Nick's superiority in that is absurd. One has to look at overall ground fighting, and GSP clearly has the edge there as well. Amazing ground control, passing, GnP and sub-defence. Diaz and his guard are like a 10 year old with a stick trying to fight a bear. Wow he has the "superior stick" on paper against the poor unarmed bear.

Cardio is even. I have never seen GSP tire in his entire life. Diaz is no slouch either, but they're both good enough that this facet won't even matter. All Diaz's cardio will mean is he will take a beating ... for longer.

Takedowns and transitions, I don't even have to bother.

On paper, GSP is the most dominant WW champ in MMA history. On paper, Diaz is a guy that couldn't even survive in the UFC and got tossed out with the usual 3 strikes in a row. How he is better on paper is anyone but a fanboy's guess.

Oh and clearly I meant 1 takedown in the Fitch fight. I'm not gonna count takedowns against wrestling scrubs, otherwise Jason Reinhardt would be NCAA champ. Also nice job excluding Serra's 4 pre-UFC subs from the back ... perhaps we should disregard Diaz's non-UFC career as well then. Serra wasn't a threat to GSP from his back because GSP is just that good. He will make Diaz look like a mugging victim as well.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

On paper, Diaz is not better, saying this is just crazy.

1) Cardio - Really, are we going to debate cardio? both fighters won't gas this fight and both fighters have exceptional cardio. Just because Nick Diaz might do better then GSP in a marathon doesn't mean he has better cardio for 25 minutes of fighting, which is how it should be judged. 

Verdict = Draw

2) Striking - I give striking advantage to GSP. He is faster and I think that should play out in striking, because you can get in and out and take less damage. He is one of most technical striking in the UFC and just because Diaz peppers you and has REALLY good body shots, doesn't mean he is better. In fact, I feel pretty confident in saying that Diaz gets 0 body shots on GSP.

Verdict = GSP

3)Wrestling - need we even discuss this?

Verdict = GSP

4) JJ - This is hard to judge, we never see Diaz really utilize his JJ against top competition and GSP couldn't submit Dan Hardy. If GSP takes it to the ground, he won't be getting submitted, GSP has one of the best top controls in the game. We also never see GSP in danger of being submitted as he has developed. He faced Penn who has a nasty guard. 

I rank this as Draw just because it won't be a factor in the fight. If you can convince me why Diaz should be the clear victor in this department, I'll change it.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

*Liddellianenko* is right, we need to look at how Nick Diaz is submitting people and if it's likely to happen against GSP. Diaz gets his subs from full guard or in scrambles, mostly against opponents who are gassed out or seeing stars from getting lit up on the feet. From full guard he likes to work a high guard to try & nail the triangle or armbar, or create a scramble where he can try to grab something.

Problem is GSP & his camp know that, if I can see it, they can see it. The plan will be to pass to half guard and just feed him elbows from there. From that position Diaz can't work the triangle or armbar, he can't throw his legs up looking for a sub, he'll have a hell of a time trying for a sweep given how good GSP's base & top control are, and 90% of his BJJ game is neutralized. All GSP has to do is get him down and pass to half guard or side control, then stay in either of those positions while dropping punches & elbows on Diaz. Don't hang around in full guard and don't pass to mount where Diaz might be able to buck and pull something sneaky.

Simple as that. It ain't pretty but it works.


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## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> You're not understanding my post either are you? Let me spell is out ... Nick Diaz is better NOWHERE on paper than GSP.
> 
> GSP has the better striking. Diaz couldn't throw a decent kick to save his life, whereas GSP has comparable boxing but more importantly a full versatile striking base with kicks, superman punches, spinning attacks and most of all a massive speed and explosiveness advantage.
> 
> ...


Take away your confusion with M.C I agree what you say about GSP. BJJ isnt just about the guard. Overall, GSPs ground game is superior. GSP and Diaz have different styles when it comes to boxing but both seem equally effective. As far as striking overall, I think GSP has the edge.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> You're not understanding my post either are you? Let me spell is out ... Nick Diaz is better NOWHERE on paper than GSP.
> 
> GSP has the better striking. Diaz couldn't throw a decent kick to save his life, whereas GSP has comparable boxing but more importantly a full versatile striking base with kicks, superman punches, spinning attacks and most of all a massive speed and explosiveness advantage.
> 
> ...


Yeah, GSP really utilized his kicks and super man punches, spinning back kicks and all these other things in his last few fights. Oh, wait, he didn't. He's found an effective jab and has stuck to it. That jab isn't going to do any good against Diaz. The last striker he beat standing was Alves, and half that fight was on the ground and Alves was worried about the takedown to the point of not letting go with his strikes. Diaz won't be worried about the takedown, at all.

Diaz, on the other hand, just knocked out one of, if not the division's best striker in Daley, and just beat Penn striking, two guys who I would rank higher in the striking department than GSP, especially Daley. 

Nick has a better ground game than GSP. GSP couldn't even submit Hardy on the ground. In fact, the only people that GSP has dominated on the ground are guys who don't have the BJJ to threaten GSP. The last person GSP fought with a dangerous/solid BJJ game was Shields, and even after GSP dropped him he decided to not enter his guard, and for a reason.

GSP is the most dominant fighter in UFC history? Extremely debatable, but I never said he wasn't so why go there?

As for the taking Fitch down, Fitch couldn't defend the takedown. Penn went for the takedown and got the takedown, and Penn has never had one of his takedowns stuffed. I don't need to say anymore.


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## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

M.C said:


> Yeah, GSP really utilized his kicks and super man punches, spinning back kicks and all these other things in his last few fights. Oh, wait, he didn't. He's found an effective jab and has stuck to it. That jab isn't going to do any good against Diaz. The last striker he beat standing was Alves, and half that fight was on the ground and Alves was worried about the takedown to the point of not letting go with his strikes. Diaz won't be worried about the takedown, at all.
> 
> Diaz, on the other hand, just knocked out one of, if not the division's best striker in Daley, and just beat Penn striking, two guys who I would rank higher in the striking department than GSP, especially Daley.
> 
> ...


Really? I've got no facts and figures at hand but in my opnion GSP has the far superior ground game overall. Yes, Diaz has an extremely dangerous and active guard, but I dont see much passing, transitions etc. Also, the one time GSP has lost to submission is to a Matt Hughes armbar, not that I have to tell you that, but GSPs sub defence is good enough, in my opinion, to deal with Diaz. I'd say....

Guard/subs go to Diaz
Transistions, Passing, top control, bottom defence (not including full guard), get ups, all go to GSP. 

As far as stamina goes, who knows. Probably give the extremely slight edge to Diaz.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

M.C said:


> Yeah, GSP really utilized his kicks and super man punches, spinning back kicks and all these other things in his last few fights. Oh, wait, he didn't. He's found an effective jab and has stuck to it. That jab isn't going to do any good against Diaz. The last striker he beat standing was Alves, and half that fight was on the ground and Alves was worried about the takedown to the point of not letting go with his strikes. Diaz won't be worried about the takedown, at all.
> 
> Diaz, on the other hand, just knocked out one of, if not the division's best striker in Daley, and just beat Penn striking, two guys who I would rank higher in the striking department than GSP, especially Daley.
> 
> ...


Yep that's it. Penn's guard is crap as is serra so get that out of your head too.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Tyson Fury said:


> Really? I've got no facts and figures at hand but in my opnion GSP has the far superior ground game overall. Yes, Diaz has an extremely dangerous and active guard, but I dont see much passing, transitions etc. Also, the one time GSP has lost to submission is to a Matt Hughes armbar, not that I have to tell you that, but GSPs sub defence is good enough, in my opinion, to deal with Diaz. I'd say....
> 
> Guard/subs go to Diaz
> Transistions, Passing, top control, bottom defence (not including full guard), get ups, all go to GSP.
> ...


GSP might lay on Diaz all night and easily avoid any submissions.

I'm not claiming GSP is going to get subbed on top or that he's going to get knocked out or anything. I'm just pointing out that GSP hasn't faced a dangerous guy on his back and Diaz is more than dangerous from his back, especially if he knows you are going to take him down.

GSP couldn't submit Hardy for almost an entire fight being on the ground. GSP has great wrestling and top control. Is that enough to stop someone like Diaz from his back? On paper I do not think so. In the actual fight? I have no clue, I'm not predicting either of them will win.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

M.C said:


> Yeah, GSP really utilized his kicks and super man punches, spinning back kicks and all these other things in his last few fights. Oh, wait, he didn't.


You mean the head kick that knocked Jake Shields on his ass in the 4th round? Or the half dozen or so spinning back kicks in the same fight? Just because he's not knocking people out with his kicks like a prime CroCop doesn't mean he's not using them.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

M.C said:


> GSP might lay on Diaz all night and easily avoid any submissions.
> 
> I'm not claiming GSP is going to get subbed on top or that he's going to get knocked out or anything. I'm just pointing out that GSP hasn't faced a dangerous guy on his back and Diaz is more than dangerous from his back, especially if he knows you are going to take him down.
> 
> GSP couldn't submit Hardy for almost an entire fight being on the ground. GSP has great wrestling and top control. Is that enough to stop someone like Diaz from his back? On paper I do not think so. In the actual fight? I have no clue, I'm not predicting either of them will win.


Diaz is the least dangerous when he lays on his back lol :laugh:


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

M.C said:


> Yeah, GSP really utilized his kicks and super man punches, spinning back kicks and all these other things in his last few fights. Oh, wait, he didn't. He's found an effective jab and has stuck to it. That jab isn't going to do any good against Diaz. The last striker he beat standing was Alves, and half that fight was on the ground and Alves was worried about the takedown to the point of not letting go with his strikes. Diaz won't be worried about the takedown, at all.
> 
> Diaz, on the other hand, just knocked out one of, if not the division's best striker in Daley, and just beat Penn striking, two guys who I would rank higher in the striking department than GSP, especially Daley.
> 
> ...


You keep repeating the same stuff even though the holes in the logic have been shown. BJ got one takedown against Fitch. BJ gets his ass handed to him by multiple takedowns and GnP for the rest of that fight. BJ is a top wrestler. You have no need to say more? Gotcha. 

BJ has never had a takedown stopped. BJ has never TRIED to takedown good wrestlers except for one above. BJ is a top wrestler. Gotcha. 

GSP's last few opponents were all top wrestlers, how stupid of him to not throw kicks and go off balance. Especially when he was easily handing their asses to them with just his hands. Obviously that must mean he's forgotten how to kick. Gotcha.

Nick Diaz won't be worried about the takedown. Obviously, because Diaz loves elbows to the face. Clealy he will just come out, plant his feet and swing like a fluttering carefree dancer, because the best takedown artist in MMA giving him a pancake for a face certainly won't give him any second thoughts. Gotcha. 

Having better submissions makes someone better on the ground. Obviously, BJ, Serra, Alves and Mayhem were faking getting their ass kicked. Once they had it on the ground, they were secretly laughing on the inside on the success of their diabolical plan. Gotcha.

GSP the most dominant fighter in MMA history? Never said that. GSP the most dominant WW in MMA history? Give me a better candidate.

Your logic defeats me, really, there is no need to say more.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> Diaz is the least dangerous when he lays on his back lol :laugh:


How many times do you have to lose to realise your MMA analysis and predictions suck.

Diaz-Daley - wrong
Diaz-Penn wrong
Wandy-Leben - wrong
Akiyama-leben - wrong
Gomi vs any opponent - wrong wrong wrong
Yamamoto vs Johnson - wrong


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> You keep repeating the same stuff even though the holes in the logic have been shown. BJ got one takedown against Fitch. BJ gets his ass handed to him by multiple takedowns and control the rest of that fight. BJ is a top wrestler. You have no need to say more? Gotcha.
> 
> BJ has never had a takedown stopped. BJ has never TRIED to takedown good wrestlers except for one above. BJ is a top wrestler. Gotcha.
> 
> ...


For the last time those 4 so called bottom sub wizards suck on the bottom name me one person penn has subbed from his back, name me more than that 1 can serra has subbed from his back, never even seen alves do anything from his ass and mayhem was a zombie skeleton at welterweight.


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## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

M.C said:


> GSP might lay on Diaz all night and easily avoid any submissions.
> 
> I'm not claiming GSP is going to get subbed on top or that he's going to get knocked out or anything. I'm just pointing out that GSP hasn't faced a dangerous guy on his back and Diaz is more than dangerous from his back, especially if he knows you are going to take him down.
> 
> GSP couldn't submit Hardy for almost an entire fight being on the ground. GSP has great wrestling and top control. Is that enough to stop someone like Diaz from his back? On paper I do not think so. In the actual fight? I have no clue, I'm not predicting either of them will win.


Know what you mean man. Its a hard fight to predict. More so when it comes to the ground game. A dude with a superb top game against a dude with an incredible guard and bottom game. I agree Diaz is the most dangerous person from his back GSP has faced. As for your reference to the GSP/Hardy fight, theres no way in hell i would put GSPs sub offence on the same level as Diazs. . Although GSP really should of subbed Hardy. 

I like your argument. Not being a bitch about it. Just stating your opinion. :thumb02:


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> You keep repeating the same stuff even though the holes in the logic have been shown. BJ got one takedown against Fitch. BJ gets his ass handed to him by multiple takedowns and control the rest of that fight. BJ is a top wrestler. You have no need to say more? Gotcha.
> 
> BJ has never had a takedown stopped. BJ has never TRIED to takedown good wrestlers except for one above. BJ is a top wrestler. Gotcha.
> 
> ...


BJ took down a much larger, stronger, more effective wrestler at will? Yup, nothing more to say.

GSP's striking isn't as good as Diaz, he's never beaten any good striker striking, except for Alves, as I said, and that was about being worried about the takedown. Diaz, on the other hand, knocked out Daley and beat Penn standing, two guys who I'd rank higher than GSP in the striking department.

Nick won't be worried about getting taken down, because He'll sub GSP off his back.

GSP has never faced anyone that has a good back game. You seem to think Penn and Serra have good back games, which is amusing. Penn has never subbed anyone from his back and Serra subbed some random guy back in 2002. Major threats they are.

GSP best WW? Sure, works for me.

All of this "on paper" of course, and my whole point. The fight is up for grabs.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

UFC_OWNS said:


> For the last time those 4 so called bottom sub wizards suck on the bottom name me one person penn has subbed from his back, name me more than that 1 can serra has subbed from his back, never even seen alves do anything from his ass and mayhem was a zombie skeleton at welterweight.


Kelly Dullanty, Greg Melisi, Jeff Telvi and Graham Lewis are 4 guys Serra has subbed from his back, in addition to Gomi in ADCC I think.

Mayhem fought at WW for half his career and half his wins are at WW, and he certainly didn't look drained against GSP, just outclassed.



M.C said:


> BJ took down a much larger, stronger, more effective wrestler at will? Yup, nothing more to say.
> 
> GSP's striking isn't as good as Diaz, he's never beaten any good striker striking, except for Alves, as I said, and that was about being worried about the takedown. Diaz, on the other hand, knocked out Daley and beat Penn standing, two guys who I'd rank higher than GSP in the striking department.
> 
> ...


Once is at will now? So all I gotta do is fluke trip Cael Sanderson once, and I'm the greatest eva! No matter in he pounds me into the pavement thereafter, I had that one trip! He's my bitch!

Daley is no better than Alves, many would say a weaker striker considering Alves has never been KOd and Daley got owned. Alves is also far more well rounded.

Diaz won't be worried about the takedown. Until he gets taken down. And smashed. Just like Miller and Serra, both guys with great guards. 

But no, in unicorn-fairy land, guys getting subbed, who've never been subbed from the guard, that obsolete position that we have haven't seen a sub from at the top level in years, is clearly the most likely outcome. 

By a guy that got owned 3 times by wrestlers. In his guard. Hmm, just like Miller and Serra, Diaz must've been in on this whole pretending to get his ass kicked from guard thing too ...


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> Kelly Dullanty, Greg Melisi, Jeff Telvi and Graham Lewis are 4 guys Serra has subbed from his back, in addition to Gomi in ADCC I think.
> 
> Mayhem fought at WW for half his career and half his wins are at WW, and he certainly didn't look drained against GSP, just outclassed.


Weird because mayhem himself said he was in awful shape and drained for that fight, and I didn't even know gomi made ADCC but I do remember that the diaz bros both subbed gomi and I don't know those 4 guys you mentioned who were subbed. Add to that serra is a fire hydrant so it's harder for him to get subs than a lanky diaz, if this was a 3 round fight I would give GSP a better advantage but 25 mins is a long fooking time to stand with a dangerous striker and to stay in a cesar gracie black belt's guard.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

People keep bringing up the Hardy fight to "prove" that GSP has terrible BJJ. I guess they forgot about that slick triangle to inverted armbar he pulled off in his rubber match against Matt Hughes. And if some assclown is going to say that Hughes' BJJ sucks, well, I guess Ricardo Almeida must really freakin' suck then.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Weird because mayhem himself said he was in awful shape and drained for that fight, and I didn't even know gomi made ADCC but I do remember that the diaz bros both subbed gomi and I don't know those 4 guys you mentioned who were subbed. Add to that serra is a fire hydrant so it's harder for him to get subs than a lanky diaz, if this was a 3 round fight I would give GSP a better advantage but 25 mins is a long fooking time to stand with a dangerous striker and to stay in a cesar gracie black belt's guard.


Yeah Mayhem really has no interest in making excuses for Mayhem getting his ass kicked does he? Didn't have any problems for the previous FIVE fights he WON at WW. Must've suddenly become fat overnight, facing GSP does that.

Fact is GSP has been in dangerous guards and manhandled them. Fact is Diaz has had wrestlers on top of him and had his ass handed to him. Fact is people still argue based on opinionated delusions and fantasies instead of these obvious facts.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

aerius said:


> People keep bringing up the Hardy fight to "prove" that GSP has terrible BJJ. I guess they forgot about that slick triangle to inverted armbar he pulled off in his rubber match against Matt Hughes. And if some assclown is going to say that Hughes' BJJ sucks, well, I guess Ricardo Almeida must really freakin' suck then.


Nobody discredits the Hughes sub.. It's more a "what have you done for me lately?" type thing. In his recent outings GSP was afraid to go to the ground with Shields (Nick has a more dangerous guard than Jake), and in his fight with Dan Hardy (a fish out of water on his back) he couldn't even finish an armbar. I don't know what it is that happened to GSP but he's not the same guy as pre Serra. 

Maybe he was abducted and anal probed.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

Nick isn't better at anything than GSP, on paper or in real life. Well he has a better chin, I'll give him that.

GSP has the advantage in grappling, striking and let's not even talk about the wrestling.

Cardio is even.

I think GSP is so much better at wrestling he won't even have to worry about Diazes guard, he'll just take him down straight in to side-controll and hold him there and smash his face. even in Diaz guard GSP has nothing to worry about. Diaz mostly sub scrubs and has lost to every wrestler he's faced and GSP has never been subbd from someones guard.

With everything being said in this debate I completely agree with Lidellianenko.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

I think Nick is a better pure striker than Georges.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

mmaswe82 said:


> Nick isn't better at anything than GSP, on paper or in real life. Well he has a better chin, I'll give him that.
> 
> GSP has the advantage in grappling, striking and let's not even talk about the wrestling.
> 
> ...


It's obvious you guys just like to ignore the facts and style matchups and not pay attention to anything the other side(M.C and me) say so I guess theres no point of arguing with people like that. Note this though, you guys wanna say serra was dangerous on the ground and had a wicked guard, well guess what his 4 subs he has were his first 4 fights of his career and they were against people who don't even have wikipedia pages, so again tell me how diaz has faced scrubs on the ground and then tell me ho serra is better, oh and penn has a non attacking guard go ahead watch every fight he has, and finally rewatch parisyian,sherk and riggs vs diaz and tell me how they can possibly be scored for diaz' opponents.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

M.C said:


> On paper Diaz has better striking, better cardio, and better BJJ. GSP takes him down? GSP gets submitted, GSP keeps it standing? GSP gets TKO'd. GSP's only advatnage on paper is his wrestling.
> 
> On paper, GSP loses to Nick. As for decision, you stated GSP will push him against the fence and wear him down, lay on top of him and wear him down, etc. That's point fighting, that's what GSP does to everyone, win decisions via points. Obviously since that's how GSP fights, I assumed that's what you were talking about.


a: I never said anything about GSP taking him down, or laying on him, you did, twice. Clearly you can't read. GSP's gameplan has been to takedown strikers with weak BJJ, standup with stong BJJ'ers and weak standup and wear out the arms of those are good at both then destroy them standing and on the ground. 
b: GSP's gigantic advantage on paper is his gameplans, Diaz's gameplan is obvious, come in and punch GSP in the face. GSP knows exactly what he is facing, pretty easy to develop any gameplan he wants to beat it. The individual aspirations of boxing and BJJ does not mean Diaz is a better mma fighter, it means he is better at boxing and BJJ, that's it.


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## cursedbat (Apr 11, 2011)

Liddellianenko said:


> Fact is GSP has been in dangerous guards and manhandled them. Fact is Diaz has had wrestlers on top of him and had his ass handed to him. Fact is people still argue based on opinionated delusions and fantasies instead of these obvious facts.


You should have just said...

Opinion is I like GSP

Opinion is I like GSP

Opinion is I hate Diaz

Fact is the same delusional half fans were making predictions against who they like as opposed to what is reality for the last Diaz fights also. Fact is GSP has been laying on the throttle for many fights while Diaz is coming like a demon. Fact is you cant bring up some shit that GSP did over 5 years ago anymore than you can bring up wrestling nonsense that Diaz had happen in a fight that long ago also. Reality is no one knows whats going to happen but I pray for MMA that Diaz wins and stops that boring shit GSP has been doing. Fact is I used to like him before he went b!tch style.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

cursedbat said:


> You should have just said...
> 
> Opinion is I like GSP
> 
> ...


Fact is I'm not one of those who picked any of Diaz's previous opponents over him, they were all tailor made for him. I'm only picking this one.

Fact is I've stated half a dozen stylistic points that you have miserably failed to address (GSP destroying Mayhem, Serra and BJ on the ground, Diaz not facing a wrestler since he lost to 3 of them etc.) and conveniently parroted "opinion!" without refuting any of it.

Fact is that even though 5 years may change you, it still won't turn Chris Leben in Cael Sanderson. The stylistic points from their older fights still hold unless they show otherwise, which they haven't. Diaz still hasn't beaten a wrestler. GSP still has faced zero problems from a BJJ fighter.

Fact is arguing based on anything other than what our eyes have seen is delusion and fantasy. 

Fact is fair-weather fans like you will run from diaz like rats from a sinking ship once he gets smashed and finished by GSP with his "bitch style".


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> It's obvious you guys just like to ignore the facts and style matchups and not pay attention to anything the other side(M.C and me) say so I guess theres no point of arguing with people like that. Note this though, you guys wanna say serra was dangerous on the ground and had a wicked guard, well guess what his 4 subs he has were his first 4 fights of his career and they were against people who don't even have wikipedia pages, so again tell me how diaz has faced scrubs on the ground and then tell me ho serra is better, oh and penn has a non attacking guard go ahead watch every fight he has, and finally rewatch parisyian,sherk and riggs vs diaz and tell me how they can possibly be scored for diaz' opponents.


I'm not saying that either Penn or Serra are more dangerous from guard than Diaz. All I'm saying is that it won't matter because GSP has an amazing top game and a BJJ blackbelt so he's not going to get in trouble from ANY WWs guard. When was the last time a fantastic wrestler with a BJJ blackbelt or even a purplebelt got subbed in a BJJ-guys guard? it just doesn't happen like that anymore.
I'm also pretty sure GSP could stand and pick Diaz appart, Diazes sloppy style with no defence would be taylor made for a surgical guy like GSP.

The gameplan will probably be to mix it all up, jap Diaz in the eye, press him against the cage, take him down, hit him, get right back up etc. GSP by decision or TKO(cuts).

Regarding those old fights, they where all close but imo Diaz lost all of them. I re-watched them all recently and I wouldn't say that Diaz won any of those.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

mmaswe82 said:


> I'm not saying that either Penn or Serra are more dangerous from guard than Diaz. All I'm saying is that it won't matter because GSP has an amazing top game and a BJJ blackbelt so he's not going to get in trouble from ANY WWs guard. When was the last time a fantastic wrestler with a BJJ blackbelt or even a purplebelt got subbed in a BJJ-guys guard? it just doesn't happen like that anymore.
> 
> Regarding those old fights, they where all close but imo Diaz lost all of them. I re-watched them all recently and I wouldn't say that Diaz won any of those.


Dustin hazelett by bocek and bocek by danzig who has no belt, and remember diaz was purple belt back then and still dangerous as hell, hell penn has a very good top game ask jon fitch and diaz got him off without any damage or been put ina ny trouble and this was round 1 so no gassing excuses. You may not think Diaz will win but you are insane if you don't think this will easily be the biggest threat GSP has ever had, and how on earth did you score parisyian and riggs beating nick? I understand maybe a split for sherk but he smashed karo and joe.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

HexRei said:


> I think Nick is a better pure striker than Georges.


guy can't throw a simple kick straight :confused02:


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> guy can't throw a simple kick straight :confused02:


His style is more boxing, and it's very effective.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

HexRei said:


> His style is more boxing, and it's very effective.


which has zero to do with overall striking btw.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

HexRei said:


> I think Nick is a better pure striker than Georges.


Fighter in spirit yes. Boxing, possibily. Overall I believe GSP is the better striker as he incorporates a lot more moves. He just hasn't really shown it in awhile. He prefers to stick to the very basics to counter; jabs, left hook, and right over hand. GSP is capable of so much more. 

Here's an interesting thought. Put GSP's mind into Nick Diaz's body and I guarantee you'd see a different fight; much more conservative with zero taunting. Put Diaz' mindset into GSP and you'll probably see some of the craziest shit out there cuz he won't be afraid to exchange. 

GSP's striking arsenal

- leg kicks (inside, outside, sweep) 
- spinning back kick
- super man punch to leg kick combo
- axe kick

We all know what's going to happen. GSP will pound him out on the ground leading to a UD or doctor's stoppage. I don't think Nick will quit though...


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

GSP excels Diaz in wrestling, which lately he's used purely to control fights and nothing more; his last 4 fights have gone to decision, so that is 100 minutes in which one of the best in the world has fought but not stopped anyone.

Diaz excels GSP in boxing and BJJ, which can't control a fight like wrestling can but finishes a lot more fights than wrestling does. Diaz has 21 stoppage wins and only 5 points wins, and he tries to finish every fight.

If the question is, who is the more dangerous fighter, undoubtedly the answer is Diaz. When you look at GSP's lack of stoppages lately against much smaller threats than Diaz, then consider also how much tougher Diaz is than them, the idea of GSP finishing Nick within 25 minutes is not very appealing.

GSP is very well rounded and has the ability to keep a fight where he wants it, his key to victory every time is avoiding his opponent's strengths and keeping them where they are weakest. But Diaz is not a weak ground fighter, he submits people regularly. Diaz is not a weak striker, he stops people with punches all the time. I'm not going to bother comparing their competition, because Diaz just walked into the UFC and destroyed a game BJ Penn.

The way I see it, if GSP is going to win this fight, the most likely method for him by a long shot is to fight very hard to maintain LnP position for 25 minutes and not risk anything else. If anyone is going to be pulling off a knock out or submission, it's much more likely to be Diaz IMO. But this is MMA, and setting a prediction in stone is ultimately pointless.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Well Shields lost and thats that for now. Id move to table the subject, its not like beating shields means you can beat Nick or the other way around. 

If you prepared to fight Shields and the night of the fight they replaced him with Nick you dont think your game plan would change? 

Nick Is the more dangerous fighter and I think he would beat Ellenberger. I dont see why when a wrestler picks a wrestler to win everyone gives his prediction more merit like its unbiased LOL. 

Oh, and if Diaz loses the GSP fight he'll still want to fight him? I dont think he will. I think he thinks if he pissed Diaz off he'll want to fight Jake just in case he dose win, lol.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SM33 said:


> GSP excels Diaz in wrestling, which lately he's used purely to control fights and nothing more; his last 4 fights have gone to decision, so that is 100 minutes in which one of the best in the world has fought but not stopped anyone.
> 
> Diaz excels GSP in boxing and BJJ, which can't control a fight like wrestling can but finishes a lot more fights than wrestling does. Diaz has 21 stoppage wins and only 5 points wins, and he tries to finish every fight.
> 
> ...


Fantastic post.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> which has zero to do with overall striking btw.


It's a large segment of it. I didn't say over-all striker, I said pure striker, by which I meant taking grappling out of the picture, not necessarily best at all types of strikes. But if he is able to beat GSP with strikes (not saying he will) I think that would be very good proof that Diaz is the better striker, even if he throws only punches the whole time..


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## guycanada (Dec 13, 2008)

When it comes to the striking aspect, GSP's base is Karate / Kickboxing in the "pure" sense.

One would have to think the ability to strike and get out (super-man punch, stiff left jab, and variety of kicks) combined with the 76 inch (GSP) to 74 inch (Diaz) will allow GSP to be effective at hitting and moving, frustrating Diaz. Obviously Diaz is ultra aggressive and will be coming forward non-stop.

I just see GSP hitting and moving, and hitting the take-down when Diaz drives forward. Maintaining a high position in the guard, getting damage, and pulling out before Diaz can grab an arm or look for the triangle.

Repeat, repeat, and look for a KO off a counter


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> *Dustin hazelett by bocek and bocek by danzig who has no belt*, and remember diaz was purple belt back then and still dangerous as hell, hell penn has a very good top game ask jon fitch and diaz got him off without any damage or been put ina ny trouble and this was round 1 so no gassing excuses. You may not think Diaz will win but you are insane if you don't think this will easily be the biggest threat GSP has ever had, and how on earth did you score parisyian and riggs beating nick? I understand maybe a split for sherk but he smashed karo and joe.


I think you missunderstood my question. Neither of those guys are fantastic wrestlers, actually Hazelett has pretty much no wrestling and Bocek well he sure as hell isn't a good wreslter.

I don't see how you can think Nick smashed them they where both close fights and imo Karo and Riggs edged them. They where no robberies at all.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Diaz vs Ellenberger would be fireworks. I see it going a lot like the Daley fight. Ellenberger would land a solid shot, Diaz recovers and "slap boxes" Ellenbergers face to a tender rib eye. Can we just pretend GSP isn't there and have these good matchups?


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm sold on Ellenberger being a beast. But I'd take Nick to win this fight. I thought Daley would beat Nick on the feet and Diaz's boxing rang true there as well. I ain't betting against his hands again.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Diaz is the best welterweight to beat GSP and he will as I say that here is my rankings before said fight.

1.GSP
2.Diaz
3.Condit
4.Ellenburger
5.Fitch


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

HexRei said:


> It's a large segment of it. I didn't say over-all striker, I said pure striker, by which I meant taking grappling out of the picture, not necessarily best at all types of strikes. But if he is able to beat GSP with strikes (not saying he will) I think that would be very good proof that Diaz is the better striker, even if he throws only punches the whole time..


I couldn't find the famous King Of Queens scene where Spence say to Doug and Dican..

I.. don't...want to.. talk.. with you.. anymore :eek02:


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

box said:


> Diaz vs Ellenberger would be fireworks. I see it going a lot like the Daley fight. Ellenberger would land a solid shot, Diaz recovers and "slap boxes" Ellenbergers face to a tender rib eye. Can we just pretend GSP isn't there and have these good matchups?


Like I said earlier. This seems to be wishful thinking on Ellenberger's part. Seems whenever someone feels like someone's a threat they hope they lose.


Diaz would beat Ellenberger and Jake knows it....however Jake has a good chance to knock out GSP and he knows it.


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## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

What would it take to change the minds of those here saying that Diaz is a better striker than GSP? 
I mean, if it should so happen that GSP outlands Diaz on the feet in their fight, would that do it?

Also, please define, "better striker". More accurate? More power? More strikes to choose from?

.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> I couldn't find the famous King Of Queens scene where Spence say to Doug and Dican..
> 
> I.. don't...want to.. talk.. with you.. anymore :eek02:


king of queens? really? haha wow.


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## DrFunk (Mar 10, 2009)

Here we go again, first it was Kos's wresting that GSP couldn't stuff. Then How BJ would outbox or submit him on the ground. Fitch is just too well rounded for GSP and would outwork him. If Serra can KO GSP then Alves will murder him. Jake Shields is the best thing since sliced bread and will man handle GSP blah blah blah blah. Then the moment they lose all of those fighters are the worst ever and GSP somehow won with a gimmick. Seriously. The man cannot catch a break for the simple crime of not wanting to fight in retard mode and hope he connects first. Yes those fighters are exciting. Look at the last card, so many random knockouts because people gamble on something and get caught. GSP used to be like that until he got caught and realized how stupid it was to fight like that.

Some fighters like Anderson have been blessed with super human DNA that allows them to dodge strikes like Neo and make it look like the fight was choreographed. GSP is not that kind of fighter. He wants to win in this sport not be remembered for delivering a highlight reel and for that you may not like him but please respect the man's skill set. He works harder in training than anyone else in the UFC, he prob promotes more than any other champion and though he may not have Anderson's god given abilities. HE IS STILL A TOUGH SOB TO BEAT, because unlike most brain dead fighters he will make you look like a noob in your weakest discipline.

So yeah keep yapping about how Diaz will outwork him, outslap box him, submit him on the ground blah blah blah.. just remember to come up with a decent excuse how GSP got lucky or ref robbed him or how Diaz wasn't ready mentally or how Diaz is really not that great of a fighter... I just can't wait what you Diaz nut huggers will come up this time.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

^ The ultimate holder downer undisputed champion once again....GSP! I pray Diaz wins, but i'm also realistic that GSP can hold Diaz down and neutralize him to the best of his abilities for all 5 rounds. If that's your cup of tea, great, but don't hate the people that like fighters who want to be exciting for the fans. Shields peppered Gsp on the feet (crazy), so if Gsp does stand with Diaz, he's in trouble, but like you said, he won't, he's to safe/smart of a fighter to chance it.


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## Freakshow (Aug 10, 2011)

Soojooko said:


> Man, do any of these fighters really think about what they are saying? Doesn't he realize that running his mouth about Diaz running his mouth is just plain low IQ hypocracy?


Maybe not. Diaz ran his mouth and got himself a title shot from it. Maybe Jake is just trying to get a shot at the winner


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Freakshow said:


> Maybe not. Diaz ran his mouth and got himself a title shot from it. Maybe Jake is just trying to get a shot at the winner


I think Jake would sign a fight with either guy, title involved or not. He's gotta be hungry after winning so decisively in the Shields fight and either would be a big opportunity for him.


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## guycanada (Dec 13, 2008)

Box,

GSP doesn't lay n pray the way Fitch or other wrestlers have been accused of, He moves to get position and causes serious damage (G n P).

If Diaz can learn the eye-poke like Shields had in his arsenal, then ya he will pepper GSP standing. It will be hard to hit GSP with him constantly changing levels, hitting and moving.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

GSP's g&p is being a tad overrated, I think Nick can control enough from bottom to keep GSP from dropping significant G&P. I see some posts stating elbows are a good idea with Nick and standing sure but if GSP opens up in guard Nick will go for a armbar, rubberguard or a sweep and Nick's bjj game is to good and he has a good chin, you can't just drop bombs and ignore what he's doing or you could get tapped.

IMO GSP will just do enough to keep Nick down for most of the rounds but Nick will look to get to his feet as well as submit. I think GSP's stand up is not going to be hard for Nick to shut down and wile GSP has more variety of strikes Diaz is more skilled at his fight style.

With a knee injury and all the hype on GSP's end and Nick having mental issues and a lot of time to prepare I can't see how anyone can say with any merit that this fight is a lock for either fighter.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

slapshot said:


> With a knee injury and all the hype on GSP's end and Nick having mental issues and a lot of time to prepare I can't see how anyone can say with any merit that this fight is a lock for either fighter.


Nick does have a bit of retard strength (pardon my french). I think he'd come to the fight with such evil thoughts in his head that even if GSP laid on him, he'd find a way to pull a limb to get him up. Diaz has never just been held down, everything turns to a scramble. Sherk was the only somewhat decisive loss vs a wrestler in his prime, and it still wasn't a blow out. 

This is years later, and many wins later, hate Diaz for who is he, but don't deny he's better than Shields, Alves, and Fitch, and of course Penn who we just saw, when it comes to pure skills, heart, endurance, and chin. And yes, you need all of those to attempt to beat GSP. Not just takedown defense, as we saw with Shields.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

DrFunk said:


> So yeah keep yapping about how Diaz will outwork him, outslap box him, submit him on the ground blah blah blah.. just remember to come up with a decent excuse how GSP got lucky or ref robbed him or how Diaz wasn't ready mentally or how Diaz is really not that great of a fighter... I just can't wait what you Diaz nut huggers will come up this time.


GSP never beat *Nick* Diaz, he beat *Nate* Diaz. What you didn't know was that Nick tested positive for pot again, but Dana White didn't/couldn't call off the match again after all the previous dickups, so he asked Nate to put on a few pounds, grow his hair longer and step in for his brother. The proof is that Joe Rogan slipped and said Nate instead of Nick a couple times while doing the commentary, the same way he said Ninja instead of Shogun in the first Shogun-Forrest fight.


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## DrFunk (Mar 10, 2009)

aerius said:


> GSP never beat *Nick* Diaz, he beat *Nate* Diaz. What you didn't know was that Nick tested positive for pot again, but Dana White didn't/couldn't call off the match again after all the previous dickups, so he asked Nate to put on a few pounds, grow his hair longer and step in for his brother. The proof is that Joe Rogan slipped and said Nate instead of Nick a couple times while doing the commentary, the same way he said Ninja instead of Shogun in the first Shogun-Forrest fight.


Where did I say that GSP beat nick before? I said the haters will always harp on something to trash GSP and when GSP DOES beat Nick they'll come up with yet another excuse for it.

As for the whole G&P and Nick's guard etc... If Nick's Jitz is a 9, then GSP is an 8 easily (if it even is that different). the 9 could submit an 8 but it won't be a walk in the park and he'll need time and strategy to work it out. The problem in this area is that he will never have the opportunity. Whereas the jitz may be a slight advantage to the challenger the skill difference in wrestling is laughable.

GSP will know where Nick's setups need him to be to secure a sub, GSP will insure he gets the best position possible on the ground to limit Nick's sub game. GSP can and will do this because his wrestling will dictate where Nick will be at all time on the ground. Add the fact that GSP will be far stronger than Nick and NOT gas out, Nick will soon realize he can't do shit with GSP on top of him and even his legendary cardio will be put to the test when 190lbs of a greased up french man is putting his whole body weight on him.

BJ was about to outbox Nick early on with his speed even with a 6+inch reach disadvantage. GSP will be as fast if not faster than BJ in his boxing WITHOUT the reach disadvantage. Despite Nick wanting to go retard mode and clowning around for GSP to brawl, he'll get peppered with jabs, kicked in the legs and towards the end of each round get taken down and humped like a bitch. This will happen for 5 rounds and Nick's face will look like a tomato while his body will be battered and beaten like a rag doll. But because he wasn't knocked out, the haters will come out and say that GSP lay and prayed and will hate him even more after declaring that Nick wasn't that great anyways.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

^^^^having read past the first sentence, I am confident aerius was joking around with you


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

DrFunk said:


> Where did I say that GSP beat nick before? I said the haters will always harp on something to trash GSP and when GSP DOES beat Nick they'll come up with yet another excuse for it.
> 
> As for the whole G&P and Nick's guard etc... If Nick's Jitz is a 9, then GSP is an 8 easily (if it even is that different). the 9 could submit an 8 but it won't be a walk in the park and he'll need time and strategy to work it out. The problem in this area is that he will never have the opportunity. Whereas the jitz may be a slight advantage to the challenger the skill difference in wrestling is laughable.
> 
> ...


LOL humor comprehension fail  other than that a very good post and I agree.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

DrFunk said:


> Here we go again, first it was Kos's wresting that GSP couldn't stuff. Then How BJ would outbox or submit him on the ground. Fitch is just too well rounded for GSP and would outwork him. If Serra can KO GSP then Alves will murder him. Jake Shields is the best thing since sliced bread and will man handle GSP blah blah blah blah. Then the moment they lose all of those fighters are the worst ever and GSP somehow won with a gimmick. Seriously. The man cannot catch a break for the simple crime of not wanting to fight in retard mode and hope he connects first. Yes those fighters are exciting. Look at the last card, so many random knockouts because people gamble on something and get caught. GSP used to be like that until he got caught and realized how stupid it was to fight like that.
> 
> Some fighters like Anderson have been blessed with super human DNA that allows them to dodge strikes like Neo and make it look like the fight was choreographed. GSP is not that kind of fighter. He wants to win in this sport not be remembered for delivering a highlight reel and for that you may not like him but please respect the man's skill set. He works harder in training than anyone else in the UFC, he prob promotes more than any other champion and though he may not have Anderson's god given abilities. HE IS STILL A TOUGH SOB TO BEAT, because unlike most brain dead fighters he will make you look like a noob in your weakest discipline.
> 
> So yeah keep yapping about how Diaz will outwork him, outslap box him, submit him on the ground blah blah blah.. just remember to come up with a decent excuse how GSP got lucky or ref robbed him or how Diaz wasn't ready mentally or how Diaz is really not that great of a fighter... I just can't wait what you Diaz nut huggers will come up this time.


Yes...except GSP was an overwhelming favourite in every single one of those fights except the Penn fight...which he blatantly greased in. I don't give a flying **** about how people on their armchairs think it wouldn't have effected the result, the fact is, he blatantly, with 100 percent INDISPUTABLE video and picture evidence, cheated...and nothing was done...and has been swept under the rug by both the UFC and over protective fans who try to downplay what a true black eye to the sport that farce really was.

I don't treat that any differently than Margarito loading his gloves, yet people act like that putting large amount of grease on your back to the point where there is literally a half dozen gifs of BJs legs slipping down his back was utterly inconsequential and it was just a stupid rule that means nothing. :confused03:


But anyway, yeah....outside of that one fight, you could put your paycheck on GSP in all of those fights and walk away with 15 cents...the only person on that list that people really thought had a chance was Alves because of the puncher's chance, but really it was just all that...hype and hope..and GSP was still a huge favourite accordingly.

But what would MMAF be without a flare for the dramatic and slanted revisionist history?


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## DrFunk (Mar 10, 2009)

Flare for the dramatic and slanted history... are you serious? I don't have the time nor the inclination to drag all of your previous posts in here Copter. I highly doubt you called GSP to win each and every one of those fights. I respect haters who are realistic and respect GSP's skill set judging from previous posts I put you under the "I hate GSP cause he's french" camp (and if i was wrong my apologies). As for my post itself it was directed to the majority of haters who time and again hype up gsp's opponent then renounce him after they get beaten. Meaning it wasn't directed at you directly but at a lot of posters who hate GSP as much as you.

For that matter, what do you think will really happen? Instead of Diazing each posts why don't you break down with your non armchair opinion on how the fight will go?

1. Diaz will batter GSP standing up forcing GSP to try take him down?
2. GSP will fail at taking down Nick because people from Stockton don't like going down?
3. Diaz will sub GSP because everyone knows GSP got his black belt from Toyr R Us?
4. Diaz will out cardio GSP because he runs a marathon for breakfast, a triathlon for lunch and does 1000 Diego Sanchez cartwheels?

Seriously HOW will Diaz beat him? What is your highly educated opinion, because I'd love to be enlightened with your awesome knowledge of MMA.

PS: Apologies to Aerius, the sarcasm just flew right over my head. I'm usually laid back but got sick and tired of random hate posts that I didn't even realize you were joking


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

DrFunk said:


> Flare for the dramatic and slanted history... are you serious? I don't have the time nor the inclination to drag all of your previous posts in here Copter. I highly doubt you called GSP to win each and every one of those fights. I respect haters who are realistic and respect GSP's skill set judging from previous posts I put you under the "I hate GSP cause he's french" camp (and if i was wrong my apologies). As for my post itself it was directed to the majority of haters who time and again hype up gsp's opponent then renounce him after they get beaten. Meaning it wasn't directed at you directly but at a lot of posters who hate GSP as much as you.
> 
> For that matter, what do you think will really happen? Instead of Diazing each posts why don't you break down with your non armchair opinion on how the fight will go?
> 
> ...


I picked against GSP once and that was against shields because I thought shields would have a grappling gameplan which he didn't and he still did well in the standup. But I will be picking Diaz for these arguments.

1.GSP will not tire out Diaz like he does to other opponents like Fitch and Alves and Penn
2. He can't strike with Diaz for long, really he can't wait til the fight and you'll see the difference
3.Top line BJJ vs Top line Wrasslin, this one is a very interesting one,however, GSP has never been threatened from top position and Penn and Serra don't have attacking guards and Nick always threatens and gets his stand up or sweep or even sub.

The only one way I can see GSP wins is if he gets a cut stoppage which would make everyone unhappy.


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## DrFunk (Mar 10, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> I picked against GSP once and that was against shields because I thought shields would have a grappling gameplan which he didn't and he still did well in the standup. But I will be picking Diaz for these arguments.
> 
> 1.GSP will not tire out Diaz like he does to other opponents like Fitch and Alves and Penn
> 2. He can't strike with Diaz for long, really he can't wait til the fight and you'll see the difference
> ...



1. Both of these guys will go 5 rounds agreed. Nick needed BJ to gas himself because he couldn't handle his speed even with the reach advantage. We both know Nick won't be taking GSP down and if this is a stand up war I have a feeling GSP can Koscheck Nick out for 5 rounds if he chooses to. Even a 100% Nick will not be able to stand and trade with GSP because he will be too slow and predictable in his slap boxing.

2. Strength plays a huge role when fighting for positioning on the ground, especially when both fighters know what they are doing. This is why I feel GSP has the edge here as he'll be able to outmuscle nick for positioning and never be in a serious position to be threatened.

3. The X factor here is Greg Jackson's camp. They will watch every single fight Nick had that was recorded come up with the cheesiest game plan and exploit all of the flaw's in Nick's game. Whereas Ceasar will need to make sure Diaz is in the building the whole time he's training


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

DrFunk said:


> 1. Both of these guys will go 5 rounds agreed. Nick needed BJ to gas himself because he couldn't handle his speed even with the reach advantage. We both know Nick won't be taking GSP down and if this is a stand up war I have a feeling GSP can Koscheck Nick out for 5 rounds if he chooses to. Even a 100% Nick will not be able to stand and trade with GSP because he will be too slow and predictable in his slap boxing.
> 
> 2. Strength plays a huge role when fighting for positioning on the ground, especially when both fighters know what they are doing. This is why I feel GSP has the edge here as he'll be able to outmuscle nick for positioning and never be in a serious position to be threatened.
> 
> 3. The X factor here is Greg Jackson's camp. They will watch every single fight Nick had that was recorded come up with the cheesiest game plan and exploit all of the flaw's in Nick's game. Whereas Ceasar will need to make sure Diaz is in the building the whole time he's training


Really kind of a poorly thought out post, Diaz is not slow. I know when a fighter rips off 8-9 punch combinations it might seem like he's slow but what he dose is timing and to add to that GSP has never been a speedy striker of any note.

Jackson's is not going to make GSP a power puncher and Nick will walk right through gsp's strikes time him and light him up. Lets be realistic, GSP wont fight this fight standing and grappling is not about strength, its about technique and wile GSP is a better wrestler Nick is a better grappler.

Comical how you think gsp's striking is so good that Nick can't stand with him did you bump your head? Smells like troll post to me.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

DrFunk said:


> Flare for the dramatic and slanted history... are you serious? I don't have the time nor the inclination to drag all of your previous posts in here Copter. I highly doubt you called GSP to win each and every one of those fights. I respect haters who are realistic and respect GSP's skill set judging from previous posts I put you under the "I hate GSP cause he's french" camp (and if i was wrong my apologies). As for my post itself it was directed to the majority of haters who time and again hype up gsp's opponent then renounce him after they get beaten. Meaning it wasn't directed at you directly but at a lot of posters who hate GSP as much as you.
> 
> For that matter, what do you think will really happen? Instead of Diazing each posts why don't you break down with your non armchair opinion on how the fight will go?
> 
> ...


No shit I picked GSP in all of his fights. I only thought Koscheck had a chance if he wrestled but still picked and BET GSP.


GSP has been an overwhelming favourite for a long time...you're deluded.


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## DrFunk (Mar 10, 2009)

slapshot said:


> Really kind of a poorly thought out post, Diaz is not slow. I know when a fighter rips off 8-9 punch combinations it might seem like he's slow but what he dose is timing and to add to that GSP has never been a speedy striker of any note.
> 
> Jackson's is not going to make GSP a power puncher and Nick will walk right through gsp's strikes time him and light him up. Lets be realistic, GSP wont fight this fight standing and grappling is not about strength, its about technique and wile GSP is a better wrestler Nick is a better grappler.
> 
> Comical how you think gsp's striking is so good that Nick can't stand with him did you bump your head? Smells like troll post to me.


Did you even see the BJ fight? Nick was doing the homer simpson defense during round 1 because BJ was too quick for him. He only started doing his slap boxing when BJ gassed out and couldn't move anymore. I dare say GSP can jab him all night long without ever getting into any serious damage since Nick is not a power puncher. As for your assessment of str vs technique I disagree there as well. When both fighters know what they are doing it will become a matter of strength as one can muscle their way into a better position.

You can disagree and say Nick's will man handle GSP on his feet. When the opposite happens just don't back pedal and say Nick's striking was never that good, I hope you stick it out for your homeboy and admit he got outclassed after he loses.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Slapshot, that post is full of such blatant Diaz nuthuggery I am surprised you could see the keyboard past his nuts.

Let's put this in perspective.

I. Diaz is a better offensive boxer but a worse defensive boxer in that he takes a lot of unnecessary hits. GSP is the better over all striker in that he utilizes a far more diverse range of strikes - including legs kicks which Diaz has a severe inability to deal with - and he takes far fewer shots. GSP also is much more elusive. He doesn't simply stand in front of his opponents the way Diaz' have with him. He extends his range using excellent footwork and positioning - which will make it extremely hard for Diaz to utilize his particular method of boxing.

II. GSP is the by far superior athlete. On a ridiculous scale. He is faster, stronger, and probably better conditioned. His core strength is also insane. He will be faster than Diaz come fight night. He will be stronger. This will play a huge role in the fight.

III. How long have any of you been watching mma? Answer me this. In the history of mma in the match up of bjj guy and wrestler who traditionally wins? Especially when the wrestler has extensive bjj training himself? If you said the bjj guy you are wrong. People say that GSP won't be ready for Diaz' level of bjj. I call bullshit. He has been training with Roger Gracie on his bjj. You know only the best bjj practitioner alive. What wrestler of GSP's caliber has Diaz fought against or has to train with? That scar tissue of Nick's is going to give him some serious issues with GSP on top of him because it is damn hard to submit someone with blood in your eyes.

IV. Let's make this extremely clear. Diaz will not push the pace in this fight because no one has ever controlled the pace of a fight the way GSP does. Diaz will try but superior range, footwork, and wrestling will allow GSP to maintain control.

V. Gameplanning. We all know exactly what Diaz is going to do because he always does the exact same thing. Every time. His style has not changed in years. If we can all see his fighting style - the good and the bad - so will GSP and Greg Jackson. Now who do you give the game plan advantage too? Nick or GSP?

I am sick of the god damned nuthugging Diaz is getting. Every time GSP gets a new opponent they are tailor made to beat him. Alves was, Koscheck was, Shields was, and now Diaz is tailor made to beat him. After GSP makes sweet Canadian love to Diaz' face who will be tailor made to beat him next?


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

DrFunk said:


> Did you even see the BJ fight? Nick was doing the homer simpson defense during round 1 because BJ was too quick for him. He only started doing his slap boxing when BJ gassed out and couldn't move anymore. I dare say GSP can jab him all night long without ever getting into any serious damage since Nick is not a power puncher. As for your assessment of str vs technique I disagree there as well. When both fighters know what they are doing it will become a matter of strength as one can muscle their way into a better position.
> 
> You can disagree and say Nick's will man handle GSP on his feet. When the opposite happens just don't back pedal and say Nick's striking was never that good, I hope you stick it out for your homeboy and admit he got outclassed after he loses.


The idea that GSP has the better chance to win with striking alone is ridiculous imo. Nick will win if GSP tries that tactic. Nick may not be a classic powerpuncher but you don't have to be a powerpuncher to win with his style, it's the accumulated blows. He KO's guys all the time with his shots, and GSP's chin isn't exactly legendary. I daresay Daley deals more damage on the feet than GSP and Nick took everything Paul had and came back to finish.

Mark my words, GSP will do his best to keep this fight on the ground where he only has to worry about staying busy and avoiding Nick's sub attempts from the guard. Even if I'm wrong and you're right, GSP will still use this tactic because Greg Jackson is the best at analyzing fighters and crafting the safest gameplan with the best chance of victory.


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## DrFunk (Mar 10, 2009)

The haters can't even come up with logical arguments to back up their claim. Because if they go into the details they can actually be proven wrong. As long as they remain vague and offer no credible logic to their opinion they can always back pedal and claim that GSP was always going to win. GSP will win then all of those nuthuggers will switch with a different argument. How GSP cannot finish a fight, how he lay and prays how Anderson would destroy him blah blah blah until GSP's next opponent is announced then they'll hype it up again saying how GSP never faced such a X and Y fighter with Z skills blah blah...


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Hexrei - GSP has been rocked once in his entire career. Nick Diaz gets rocked about twice a fight. Who has the better chin? These comments about GSP's chin are ludicrous and based off of literally nothing.


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## DrFunk (Mar 10, 2009)

HexRei said:


> The idea that GSP has the better chance to win with striking alone is ridiculous imo. Nick will win if GSP tries that tactic. Nick may not be a classic powerpuncher but you don't have to be a powerpuncher to win with his style, it's the accumulated blows. He KO's guys all the time with his shots, and GSP's chin isn't exactly legendary. I daresay Daley deals more damage on the feet than GSP and Nick took everything Paul had and came back to finish.
> 
> Mark my words, GSP will do his best to keep this fight on the ground where he only has to worry about staying busy and avoiding Nick's sub attempts from the guard.


If you read my earlier posts I outlined how i thought the fight would go. I believe it'll be a string of jabs + leg kicks early on and with about a minute to go GSP will take Nick down (with some earlier non serious takedown attempts just to throw Nick off his game). He'll then secure the round via points and do minor to moderate damage as each round goes by. He'll keep mixing this up and frustrate Nick into a guessing game which will completely disrupt his striking game.

Fighters are not afraid of GSP's striking but they are afraid to be taken down which makes his striking infinitely more unpredictable. You can't unload on GSP because the moment you plant your feet he will put your ass to the ground. That's the key to the fight, while Nick is trying to "figure" out GSP, he'll get peppered with jabs from the speed and footwork of GSP and take a lot of leg kicks. The moment he goes desperate and exposes himself he'll get taken down etc.. rinse and repeat.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

The fact is, Diaz will outbox Gsp, and Gsp will go for the takedown. There's no hidden message, or conspiracy in this post trying to weasel a excuse why GSP won. Those are the facts. 

When was the last time GSP outboxed someone who can box? Shields stood toe to toe, so did Koscheck. (but you say "Gsp got poked in the eye, that's why Shields did damage", well Koscheck lost vision in a eye at the begginning and still hung around, and also has zero boxing, just a right hand). 

Diaz gets rocked, because he stands with good strikers and takes them out at their game, that's a lot harder than using your butter to grind a win. Who cares what's smart or not, these are just the facts.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

box said:


> The fact is, Diaz will outbox Gsp, and Gsp will go for the takedown. There's no hidden message, or conspiracy in this post trying to weasel a excuse why GSP won. Those are the facts.
> 
> When was the last time GSP outboxed someone who can box? Shields stood toe to toe, so did Koscheck. (but you say "Gsp got poked in the eye, that's why Shields did damage", well Koscheck lost vision in a eye at the begginning and still hung around, and also has zero boxing, just a right hand).
> 
> Diaz gets rocked, because he stands with good strikers and takes them out at their game, that's a lot harder than using your butter to grind a win. Who cares what's smart or not, these are just the facts.


Yes, Shields did nothing except a cheap intentional eye poke, and got his ass completely kicked apart from that ... seriously, how about you give me a time in their fight where we see a single damaging strike from Shields apart from the eye poke?

And apparently Koscheck hanging around and getting his ass kicked makes GSP's stand up suck. Never mind that GSP smashed his orbital bone with a JAB, and Kos didn't land a significant strike the entire fight.

It's amusing the stuff GSP haters come up with.

But oh I guess GSP can't compare to mr. amazo Diaz's standup. After all, Diaz did KO Daley ... after nearly getting KTFO himself and coming back from the brink. BJ "hung around" too, not to mention gave Diaz a pretty even fight in the first rd, and some significant damage. But lets not talk about that. Clearly, GSP's winning a zillion rounds in a row without taking even a scratch from a legal strike means he has crap standup. You have to bum brawl to qualify as a top striker now.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

The eye poke didn't cause the cut and bleeding, those were from punches. I never said GSP isn't a top striker, but Diaz will outbox him, like he does all strikers.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

box said:


> The eye poke didn't cause the cut and bleeding, those were from punches. I never said GSP isn't a top striker, but Diaz will outbox him, like he does all strikers.


Yes it did, you can see the fingers scratch off the part below the eye too, and the cut showed up right after the poke.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

You're not allowed to use facts here! Mocking, sarcasm, and straight pulling shit out of your ass are all good but facts and evidence? Bitch please.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

I like GSP as a person, really humble and nice, but who doesn't want to see him in a scrap? It's about time someone really roughed him up and made him open up. I can support Diaz all the way to the end because he'll lay it on the line to do that, unlike the others who do the opposite of what they're good at. Diaz never has and never will change his attack, because he just attacks.


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## cursedbat (Apr 11, 2011)

Liddellianenko said:


> Fact is I'm not one of those who picked any of Diaz's previous opponents over him, they were all tailor made for him. I'm only picking this one.
> 
> Fact is I've stated half a dozen stylistic points that you have miserably failed to address (GSP destroying Mayhem, Serra and BJ on the ground, Diaz not facing a wrestler since he lost to 3 of them etc.) and conveniently parroted "opinion!" without refuting any of it.
> 
> ...


What a joke. Between you not really making any sense to your assumptions on my MMA history I say you get a big WAKE UP! Not worth another word.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

cursedbat said:


> What a joke. Between you not really making any sense to your assumptions on my MMA history I say you get a big WAKE UP! Not worth another word.


Obviously you don't have any logic of facts to refute me, just a full red bar and dumbass comments.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> Yes, Shields did nothing except a cheap intentional eye poke, and got his ass completely kicked apart from that ... seriously, how about you give me a time in their fight where we see a single damaging strike from Shields apart from the eye poke?
> 
> And apparently Koscheck hanging around and getting his ass kicked makes GSP's stand up suck. *Never mind that GSP smashed his orbital bone with a JAB, *and Kos didn't land a significant strike the entire fight.
> 
> ...


And Mark Coleman broke Shogun's shoulder with a TAKEDOWN.

Mark Coleman totally has devastating takedowns.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> Clearly, GSP's winning a zillion rounds in a row without taking even a scratch from a legal strike means he has crap standup. You have to bum brawl to qualify as a top striker now.


GSP lost 2 rounds to Shields on 2/3 scorecards. To say that Nick won't be able to bring more than Jake did is silly i think.


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## guycanada (Dec 13, 2008)

he took 2 rounds from a half-blind guy, after he eye-poked him. An illegal move still didn't win him the fight


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

All I know, they better have some sort of vaseline tester come fight night. We all know GSP loves the grease down when facing a threat on the ground.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Liddell also denies that Chael Sonnen ever rocked Anderson Silva. Just throwing that out there.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> Liddell also denies that Chael Sonnen ever rocked Anderson Silva. Just throwing that out there.


Is that true...never heard that. I'm pretty sure Anderson did get wacked in the head hard once thus losing his balance. The second time was a miss... Either way that was a surreal moment cuz he's never been hit like that in any of his bouts.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> Is that true...never heard that. I'm pretty sure Anderson did get wacked in the head hard once thus losing his balance. The second time was a miss... Either way that was a surreal moment cuz he's never been hit like that in any of his bouts.


Yea, I even posted a video link of the fight and told him which minute Chael rocked Anderson. He still denied it lol

Yea, in the first round Chael clearly rocked Anderson, he tagged Andy and his legs buckled and he fell down momentarily, but then he instantly recovered. And yea, the other time was just a slip.

It was a surreal and a shocking moment, but Chael did definitely rock Anderson, albeit very briefly.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

deadmanshand said:


> Hexrei - GSP has been rocked once in his entire career. Nick Diaz gets rocked about twice a fight. Who has the better chin? These comments about GSP's chin are ludicrous and based off of literally nothing.


Dummy GSP does not get hit much but when he does he shows glass in his chin, serra is the only one to properly tag him and bang what do you know GSP goes on rollerskates and gets finished, just because GSP has a decent jab doesn't mean he can outstrike nick.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

deadmanshand said:


> Hexrei - GSP has been rocked once in his entire career. Nick Diaz gets rocked about twice a fight. Who has the better chin? These comments about GSP's chin are ludicrous and based off of literally nothing.


There are three possibilities that fight night:

Neither Nick nor GSP are early-fight KO artists, and neither usually land early subs, especially against such strong BJJ opponents as each other. So those unlikely possibilities I am setting aside for now.

1) GSP follows the gameplan Greg Jackson will inevitably lay out for him and uses as many strikes as it takes to set up his takedown for top control. Georges wins a decision. This is the most likely.

2) GSP decides to strike with Nick, begins to lose, and resorts to the gameplan Jackson (once again, I guarantee you) laid out for him. See 1). Georges wins a decision.

3) GSP tries to stand with Nick and for whatever reason waits too long, gets too tired, or simply can't take Nick down, in which case Nick may well win. There is also the potential for a late-game sub by Nick here, although I consider this a very outside chance.


Note that if a gun were to my head, I'd guess GSP takes this, but I think it all depends on what gameplan Georges chooses, because Nick wins fives rounds of striking.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> Liddell also denies that Chael Sonnen ever rocked Anderson Silva. Just throwing that out there.


No I said he tagged him but not rocked. He was still fully in his senses and firing back, "rocked" generally means the guy is dazed and dizzy, as in he has "rocked" vision, and is close to going unconscious if he gets hit a few more times. Anderson's eyes looked fully clear, and he didn't so much as blink the next time he got hit. 

I'm not denying that Chael hit him hard and got some damage on him, the discussion was about Anderson's chin, and I still say it held and we've never seen his chin really give.

But yes, keep bringing up year old debates out of the blue, that wasn't random at all.



Roflcopter said:


> And Mark Coleman broke Shogun's shoulder with a TAKEDOWN.
> 
> Mark Coleman totally has devastating takedowns.


yeah, so an accidental breakage of a JOINT when sticking your arm out trying to support your own 210 lbs weight + a 220 lbs wrestler putting his full weight on you + his momentum, is just as impressive as intentional damage from a short snapping punch from a 180 lb WW shattering a fully non movable solid mass of skull bone. 

Really, your argument isn't facetious at all.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Yea, I even posted a video link of the fight and told him which minute Chael rocked Anderson. He still denied it lol
> 
> Yea, in the first round Chael clearly rocked Anderson, he tagged Andy and his legs buckled and he fell down momentarily, but then he instantly recovered. And yea, the other time was just a slip.
> 
> It was a surreal and a shocking moment, but Chael did definitely rock Anderson, albeit very briefly.


Lol he never rocked Andy.
Don't make it sound like that Chael coil actually do that :laugh:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> No I said he tagged him but not rocked. He was still fully in his senses and firing back, "rocked" generally means the guy is dazed and dizzy, as in he has "rocked" vision, and is close to going unconscious if he gets hit a few more times. Anderson's eyes looked fully clear, and he didn't so much as blink the next time he got hit.
> 
> I'm not denying that Chael hit him hard and got some damage on him, the discussion was about Anderson's chin, and I still say it held and we've never seen his chin really give.
> 
> ...


Well it seems to come down to interpretation. The term "tagged" to me, means that a shot landed flush. That is all. If Anderson was simply tagged, then his legs wouldn't have buckled and he wouldn't have lost his balance and looked wobbly for a brief moment (which is exactly what happened). BJ Penn was tagged over and over again by Nick Diaz (lots of shots landed flush), but he was never rocked as he managed to keep his balance at all times and avoided falling over.

Chael Sonnen hit Anderson flush and THEN Andersons legs buckled from underneath him and he completely lost his balance for a second. That certainly isn't my definition of getting tagged. If Chael had only tagged Anderson, his legs wouldn't have buckled and he wouldn't have momentarily fell over and lost his balance, no?

Gif of the punch:










Edit: I brought the argument up to show your incompetency when debating mma (fights in particular). I shown you a video and highlighted the minute in which Chael rocked or "wobbled" Anderson and you denied it. Here I have posted a direct gif of Chael hitting Anderson which clearly shows him completely lose his balance and stumble over for a brief moment.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Well it seems to come down to interpretation. The term "tagged" to me, means that a shot landed flush. That is all. If Anderson was simply tagged, then his legs wouldn't have buckled and he wouldn't have lost his balance and looked wobbly for a brief moment (which is exactly what happened). BJ Penn was tagged over and over again by Nick Diaz (lots of shots landed flush), but he was never rocked as he managed to keep his balance at all times and avoided falling over.
> 
> Chael Sonnen hit Anderson flush and THEN Andersons legs buckled from underneath him and he completely lost his balance for a second. That certainly isn't my definition of getting tagged. If Chael had only tagged Anderson, his legs wouldn't have buckled and he wouldn't have momentarily fell over and lost his balance, no?
> 
> ...


Dude, he wasn't rocked in that situation. He stumbled abone his feet because of the impact of the punch.

Just like when you puch somebody and push them in the face.

They will lose balance and that's what happened to Andy.


Rocked is, when you fall like a tower and most important your brain shuts down for a second. This did not happen here at all.

He lost his footing.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> Well it seems to come down to interpretation. The term "tagged" to me, means that a shot landed flush. That is all. If Anderson was simply tagged, then his legs wouldn't have buckled and he wouldn't have lost his balance and looked wobbly for a brief moment (which is exactly what happened). BJ Penn was tagged over and over again by Nick Diaz (lots of shots landed flush), but he was never rocked as he managed to keep his balance at all times and avoided falling over.
> 
> Chael Sonnen hit Anderson flush and THEN Andersons legs buckled from underneath him and he completely lost his balance for a second. That certainly isn't my definition of getting tagged. If Chael had only tagged Anderson, his legs wouldn't have buckled and he wouldn't have momentarily fell over and lost his balance, no?
> 
> ...


No Anderson's legs never buckled, they lost balance. This is what happens when you've unknowingly come to close to a parallel stance and suddenly get tagged/pushed hard. When your legs are that parallel, you don't have a back foot to stabilize the impact of the punch.

The telling sign is that his arms are still flailing for balance when he gets tagged, if he was rocked his arms would've been limp for that split second too. 

When you're truly rocked, your brain basically blacks out for a flash and your body is COMPLETELY limp until it kicks back in. That means no arm movement etc., nothing. This is just Anderson being pushed off balance by a very hard strike while his footing is in a weak spot. 

Again, this claim pissed you off last time, but I know the difference because I've been in both situations and seen it happen to others plenty of times in training. You have to know the difference if you're going to jump in and swarm or attack normally knowing that the guy is still in it and it was just a slip.

EDIT: Bobby just beat me to it... nice post


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

deadmanshand said:


> Hexrei - GSP has been rocked once in his entire career. Nick Diaz gets rocked about twice a fight. Who has the better chin? These comments about GSP's chin are ludicrous and based off of literally nothing.


Rocked you say? Ill have to disagree, I'd call that being finished. Diaz takes more risk so of coarse he gets hit more.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Yeah I have no idea why so many people overreacted to that punch. Sonnen clearly punched him hard but Silva CLEARLY was not hurt by it whatsoever. It just knocked him off balance.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> No Anderson's legs never buckled, they lost balance. This is what happens when you've unknowingly come to close to a parallel stance and suddenly get tagged/pushed hard. When your legs are that parallel, you don't have a back foot to stabilize the impact of the punch.
> 
> The telling sign is that his arms are still flailing for balance when he gets tagged, if he was rocked his arms would've been limp for that split second too.
> 
> ...


This. It is too bad that even MMA judges don't understand this because we get Omigawa/Elkins decisions as a result. You also have a lot of people going crazy about fights like Cruz/Faber thinking Faber was dropping Cruz nonstop.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

DrFunk said:


> The haters can't even come up with logical arguments to back up their claim. Because if they go into the details they can actually be proven wrong. As long as they remain vague and offer no credible logic to their opinion they can always back pedal and claim that GSP was always going to win. GSP will win then all of those nuthuggers will switch with a different argument. How GSP cannot finish a fight, how he lay and prays how Anderson would destroy him blah blah blah until GSP's next opponent is announced then they'll hype it up again saying how GSP never faced such a X and Y fighter with Z skills blah blah...


Maybe its your comprehension? I think its been laid out specificaly enough. Your breakdown is uneducated. Call me what you will but I picked GSP to win this fight, the fact remains if GSP dose not take Nick down the overwhelming odds are he'll lose.

Most of my rebuttal can be found here, http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/96382-i-m-gonna-put-worst-beating-youve-ever-seen-him-ufc-gsp.html


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## drey2k (Jul 9, 2009)

Ellenberger either gets KOd or subbed by Diaz, his pick. He needs to STFU, did he already forget the beating that Condit gave him?


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Diaz would beat GSP in a boxing match.


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## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

SM33 said:


> Diaz would beat GSP in a boxing match.


Agreed. Just as GSP would beat Diaz in a kickboxing and/or karate match.

.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

H33LHooK said:


> Agreed. Just as GSP would beat Diaz in a kickboxing and/or karate match.
> 
> .


Well I think GSP would probably have a big advantage in a point karate match given that he's probably a lot more familiar with the style and restrictions. Not convinced about the kickboxing though. I've never seen Nick fighting with big-ass gloves and I'm not sure how it would affect his unusual striking style. And Nick may not use a ton of kicks, but he does know how to throw them, and his knees to the thighs and body in the clinch are actually pretty brutal. Although I'm not sure they'd be as effective in a ring instead of a cage.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

H33LHooK said:


> Agreed. Just as GSP would beat Diaz in a kickboxing and/or karate match.
> 
> .


Not just there.. 

BUT IN EVERY SINGLE ART OF COMBAT SPORTS!!!


Inculding Boxing btw.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

I need to see this fight where GSP used his boxing Bobby, then i'll agree with you. Maybe Jay Heiron? And even that I wouldn't consider pure boxing like what Diaz does. It was a select few power shots on a weak chin. While Diaz combos all night long.


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