# Discussing Chael "Pillow Hands" Sonnen



## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

I understand there are a lot of anti-Sonnen people here and I completely understand why. I have been hearing ever since the Marquardt fight that Chael has "pillow hands" who can't finish a fight.

Usually people who say this are pretty big Silva fans (considering it's next to impossible for someone to be a Silva and Chael fan). People talk about this 289 punches landed on Anderson and say that it didn't even effect him. They show the picture of his face which doesn't have much visible damage to it.

Then those very same fans will point out that Silva's chin was "finally tested" and talk about his heart and resolve in order to come back from a beating and win.

Well there can obviously be only one correct answer. Is Chael pillow hands or did Anderson show great resolve in overcoming a beating? Not only that, to call Chael pillow hands is to drastically take away from Andy's great come back. People are so set on down talking Chael that they don't even realize they are subliminally down talking Silva too.

I'm fed up with this subject. To think that anyone at high UFC level has pillow hands is absurd. Lets not forget people called Cain pillow hands after the Congo fight until he KO'd Nog and put a whooping on Lesnar.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

I wouldn't call Chael "pillowhands". It's not the he can't do damage is that he chooses not to. All he is concerned with in a match is maintaining his dominant position. He is not looking for a tko or a submission to end it. None of his UFC fights have shown either tendency. He has also shown a significant weakness in his submission defense. This all leads to him intentionally throwing weak shots from a completely safe position. It wins him points in the judge's eyes but hardly inflicts the kind of damage that 15 or 25 minutes of GnP should inflict.

Andy showed heart for coming through a 23 1/2 minute demoralizing grind to win it. His chin has been tested by many people who hit significantly harder than Chael Sonnen.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Only a moron would say Anderson's chin was "finally tested" in the Chael fight. He had been hit, and hit cleanly many, many times before that fight.


I don't really get the pillow hands thing, Chael doesn't have outrageous power, but of course he doesn't have pillow hands. His strategy is to control guys and beat them up, therefore he doesn't knock a lot of guys out.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

He´s not pillown hands. At least we can't say that after Silva's fight.

I'm sure he can trow a decent punch if he wants to. he didn't show us any of that in Silva's fight.
In Silva's fight he simply didn't wanted to trow hard punches,
possibily due to being afraid of gassing himself out.
he was happy staying in Silva's guard, throwing those... "shots" :confused02: so the ref disd't stood the fight up.
He was happy being inside a man's guard for 25 minutes and taking the points victory.

So, how can we know if he has pillow hands from that fight?
We just can't make that assumption from that.

We can only assume that if someone gets hit 289 times in 24 minutes and gets out of it standing,
then perhaps those hits weren't that powerful...


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

They don't really think he has pillow hands Pheelgood they just need to hate and put him down every chance they get.

We have one member who, no matter what the Sonnen discussion is, feels the need to tell us that Chael is a douche. I think that's his way of saying that Chael see's way more vaginae than he does.

Anyway,... can't change anyone's mind so we might as well feed the fire.











^^ hahaha I told vilify a long time ago he better hope Chael didn't decide to focus on Rampage :cheeky4:



> “I come into this fight with a lot of respect for Brian, because unlike most of my previous opponents, he deserves respect. I don’t have anything bad to say about him because he isn’t a monkey-eating thug. He’s a decorated war hero and a hell of a brawler.”


- Chael Sonnen

hahahah fire away!


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

I would venture a guess that this board is pretty close to being a 50/50 split between Sonnen and Silva fans... and if it's not, lets just say it's that even for "outspoken" fans.

Nonetheless, I would not call Chael "pillow hands" at all. He has a certain style... I do wish he would post up more and drop some, dare I say it, Ortiz like elbows to put a few exclamation points on his ground and pound.

And while we're being completely honest. I really don't blame Chael for his style outside the cage. I don't like him for it, and I've posted numerous times how low I think he is... but frankly the real blame lies in those who eat his words up like some chocolate covered dessart. I mean no offense to anyone but if you're one of those poeple who have jumped on the lets hate Silva, or for that matter all Brazillions as far as Sonnen conerned, train then you should be ashamed of yourself.

Simply put if hoards of people didn't buy into his bullshit, there would be any bullshit to sell. Chael sonnen is a talented fighter, and I know that his supposed soft hands put a hurting on Silva... but his tactics are the equivalent of the dumbass kid in the back of class making jokes that makes everyone uncomfortable, but still a good portion of the class eggs him on to continue.

If he would shut the hell up and fight.. I'm sure I'd be a fan.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

I'm quite surprised at how many people don't think he has "pillow hands". It definitely comes up more than what people are posting. Good though. I'm glad that Silva and Sonnen fans can at least agree on something. LOL


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

oldfan said:


> They don't really think he has pillow hands Pheelgood they just need to hate and put him down every chance they get.
> 
> *We have one member who, no matter what the Sonnen discussion is, feels the need to tell us that Chael is a douche. I think that's his way of saying that Chael see's way more vaginae than he does.*
> Anyway,... can't change anyone's mind so we might as well feed the fire.


Are you kidding me? Are you really that blind? You have the nerve to refer to ANYONE else "hating" when referring to Chael Sonnen? I'm sorry sir but I have to question your mind set on that one.

You're referring to a guy who joked about Wanderlei Silva being in bed with the Nog brothers. Who then said the Nog brothers don't know the difference between a horse and a bus. Who constantly refers to Anderson Silva as "pink shirt wearing, mokey eating (whatever that means), thug"... and you seriously are going to condemn people for hating on him?

I suppose you laugh when people point and the mentally challenged and call them "retarded".

Take a look in the mirror and think for a moment who you're rallying behind. You might not like what you see.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

BrianRClover said:


> Are you kidding me? Are you really that blind? You have the nerve to refer to ANYONE else "hating" when referring to Chael Sonnen? I'm sorry sir but I have to question your mind set on that one.
> 
> You're referring to a guy who joked about Wanderlei Silva being in bed with the Nog brothers. Who then said the Nog brothers don't know the difference between a horse and a bus. Who constantly refers to Anderson Silva as "pink shirt wearing, mokey eating (whatever that means), thug"... and you seriously are going to condemn people for hating on him?
> 
> ...


Wow! you took that from what Oldfan said?

talk about reading into things a little too much. Relax buddy.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

BrianRClover said:


> Are you kidding me? Are you really that blind? You have the nerve to refer to ANYONE else "hating" when referring to Chael Sonnen? I'm sorry sir but I have to question your mind set on that one.
> 
> You're referring to a guy who joked about Wanderlei Silva being in bed with the Nog brothers. Who then said the Nog brothers don't know the difference between a horse and a bus. Who constantly refers to Anderson Silva as "pink shirt wearing, mokey eating (whatever that means), thug"... and you seriously are going to condemn people for hating on him?
> 
> ...


ahh mate oldfan wasnt talking to you i dont think man lol, he was probably talking about me, chael sucks he is the worst fighter ever, i wish he would get out of mma for good and leave us all alone, you have to be humble and nice like gsp and not only that but 24/7 and chael isn't that


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I understand there are a lot of anti-Sonnen people here and I completely understand why. I have been hearing ever since the Marquardt fight that Chael has "pillow hands" who can't finish a fight.
> 
> Usually people who say this are pretty big Silva fans (considering it's next to impossible for someone to be a Silva and Chael fan). People talk about this 289 punches landed on Anderson and say that it didn't even effect him. They show the picture of his face which doesn't have much visible damage to it.
> 
> ...


anderson's chin wasn't tested. i'd argue that he did show great resolve in pulling out a finish despite chael's strenuous efforts to make it a decision.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Well to be fair, he was dropped by Sonnen. So I would say it was tested. Being hit 289 times with even half power shots has to hurt.

I imagine it would be like slapping your arm with a pencil. Yeah the first couple times it wouldn't hurt. Eventually it's going to sting like a mother f***** though.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I understand there are a lot of anti-Sonnen people here and I completely understand why. I have been hearing ever since the Marquardt fight that Chael has "pillow hands" who can't finish a fight.
> 
> Usually people who say this are pretty big Silva fans (considering it's next to impossible for someone to be a Silva and Chael fan). People talk about this 289 punches landed on Anderson and say that it didn't even effect him. They show the picture of his face which doesn't have much visible damage to it.
> 
> ...




1. Chael Sonnen does not have pillow hands.

2. Anderson Silva won the fight on heart and that fight proved he has amazing heart. Testing his chin is secondary and less important.

3. People who use cosmetic damage on a mans face to gauge how hard someone hits have low IQ's. Lets not forget that bruises show up on people differently, much less if that man is a black man. Its completely insane for anyone to believe cosmetic damage can in any way be used as a gauging tool for how hard an opponent hits.

4. Kongo*


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

Killstarz said:


> Wow! you took that from what Oldfan said?
> 
> talk about reading into things a little too much. Relax buddy.


Umm.. yeah... actually when I was writing my post, I was laughing a little. I even sent Oldfan a positive rep to further solidify I was joking with the intensity of my words. Which he got because he returned the same thing (respsect :thumb02.

But upon rereading my post... don't get me wrong... I mean what I say and really don't understand how people can get behind Sonnen... but I don't really think you should be ashamed of yourselves, and the intesity was meant to be way over the top... it's just somehow easy to forget that you can't hear the tone of my thoughts through text on a forum. It was really meant to be a "ridiculous" rant... I just failed, my bad!


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

I don't know whether he has pillow hands, at least he hasn't proven yet to be a knock out artist. In the Silva fight however on the ground he threw only pillow shots according to my book (At least what I call pillow shots in a combat sport). It were small hammerfists that were thrown practically only from the elbow joint, so not even out of the shoulder and with no body weight behind them. They physically just couldn't generate much power. I don't think they were meant to really hurt Silva in the first place, let alone to knock him out. Sonnen has a really good wrestling top control and those shots were meant to look busy so they wouldn't get stand up again.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Chael's hands are very underrated, a lot of people forget or don't know he had a boxing background coming into MMA, and anyone who can drop Anderson Silva has some pretty decent hands.


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

He is active but useless. He is punches so he doesn't get stood up. He doesn't do any damage on the ground. Now with that being said, it seems he does have some power in his stand up exchanges.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Chael's hands are very underrated, a lot of people forget or don't know he had a boxing background coming into MMA, and anyone who can drop Anderson Silva has some pretty decent hands.


Umm.. no he didn't. Chael has no boxing background outside of what he trains for mma. He was an Olypmic alternate wrestler but I can find no records of any amateur or pro boxing background.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Chael's hands are very underrated, a lot of people forget or don't know he had a boxing background coming into MMA, and anyone who can drop Anderson Silva has some pretty decent hands.


Did you actually buy that BS interview he gave where he claimed he was a good boxer? He made that up. You got trolled son.


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## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

So who were the people who referred to Chael as having 'pillow hands' prompting the creation of this thread? Im not saying there werent any. It just seems there alot of people denying the fact.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Tyson Fury said:


> So who were the people who referred to Chael as having 'pillow hands' prompting the creation of this thread? Im not saying there werent any. It just seems there alot of people denying the fact.


It's been brought up repeatedly since the Nate fight. I just saw it again this morning here and it prompted me to start this thread.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

No one that knows how to throw a punch has pillow hands. When you plant your feet and turn your hips, shoulder and pivot into a punch you can knock someone out even if you're a little girl. Throwing this punch leaves you open for a counter, takedown etc etc fighting is a game of trades, you cant fight perfectly, to do something is to give up something else. Which is why it's smart to pick your shots and a lot of guys styles don't allow them to throw bombs. Guys like bisping, he's not knocking people out, but its because he sticks and moves. He chooses speed and safety over power. His opposite, Chris leben, chooses power over speed, safety, technique etc. The best strikers are a mix, a good combination of each. Not getting hit but hitting, pressuring but avoiding counters, still finishing guys while being safe guys like Anderson silva, machida, remy bonjaski etc

(if someone says remy is overrated I'm going to take off my pants. >.> )


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

I'll put my feelings for sonnen aside, and give an honest answer. I do think he lacks knockout power as he would have tried to gnp silva while on the floor. But i also think he landed as many shots as he did just so the ref would not stand the fight up. However there is something iffy about that fight, where was the silva we all know? His timing,etc was off that fight. When have you ever seen silva being dropped, throwing strikes wildly and missing?


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> 1. Chael Sonnen does not have pillow hands.
> 
> 2. Anderson Silva won the fight on heart and that fight proved he has amazing heart. Testing his chin is secondary and less important.
> 
> ...


Some people just dont show damage. Rampage has had his ass handed to him a few times, in devastating fashion and he didn't look ripped apart at the end. BJ Penn almost never shows damage and I dont think I've ever seen the man bleed. Then theres some guys, Sonnen being one of them, that just bleed all over the place.


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## lpbigd4444 (Oct 1, 2008)

oldfan said:


> They don't really think he has pillow hands Pheelgood they just need to hate and put him down every chance they get.
> 
> We have one member who, no matter what the Sonnen discussion is, feels the need to tell us that Chael is a douche. I think that's his way of saying that Chael see's way more vaginae than he does.
> 
> ...


hahaha i actually just saw this before you posted it but this is gold. i love that he actually said ok Maia i would love for you to help me out because that shows humility.. the Fedor thing is hilarious with the whole fake japanese fights lol. i think he is nuts but i love it. i do agree that while those fights are certainly real the japanese records are padded because most of the competition is terrible. Wand, Fedor, Nog, and those guys are not simply out of there prime.. they didn't have to be that good to beat the competition over there and were never that good to begin with. It is being proven now in the UFC. turning 32, 33, or 34 does not cause you to suck all of a sudden. these guys aren't 40 for cryin out loud


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

I think calling Chael "Pillow Hands" is kind of funny but overall ridiculous. Those same "pillow hands" dropped Anderson on his ass multiple times in that fight, and Anderson has a chin. I think it has more to do with how Chael postures up when ground and pounding and how Anderson moved to avoid damage. You're not going to bust anybody up with those little mini-hammerfists. They score points, show the ref you're staying active and cause _some_ damage but they're not sending anyone to the hospital (Unless you're Lesnar). Chael seems more content to absolutely smother and keep dominant position first and damage second.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

anderson was never hurt. one was a slip ffs.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Chael doesn't knock guys out because he doesn't have the explosive power to knock guys out from guard and he doesn't ever pass.

Very few guys have that ability.


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

I like Sonnen, Silva, Ortiz, Rampage etc... there's no one I really dislike, except maybe Evans, not that I care that much tho.

am I normal ?

Sonnen's interviews are mostly 2nd degree and probably full of private jokes towards one or another fighter. When you don't take them that seriously, he actually sounds like a very nice guy, probably one I'd pick if I could ever meet and have a chat with an UFC fighter.

he's definitely much smarter than he seems.


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## Howeman89 (Jul 26, 2011)

I wouldn't say Chael Sonnen is a KO artist...He is an out and out wrestler with an adequate stand-up game....You can't deny he put his form of a beating on Anderson Silva....Yea ok it wasn't a stellar KO or an Ortiz/Matt Hughes GnP clinic but he did effectively beat/control Silva for the best part of 4 rounds....We could say the same and point the finger at fighters like GSP or even Randy Couture in some of his fights...A Wrestler's game plan is always been to gain dominate position and control their opponent either on the mat or against the cage


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## ArcherCC (Dec 12, 2010)

hadoq said:


> I like Sonnen, Silva, Ortiz, Rampage etc... there's no one I really dislike, except maybe Evans, not that I care that much tho.
> 
> am I normal ?
> 
> ...


Are you freaking serious? A 'nice' guy says Lance Armstrong gave himself cancer by roiding? A 'Nice' guy constantly makes public statements then lies about saying them, even when faced with a recording of it? If that's what you call a Nice guy, you need to rethink the meaning of the word.

now on topic, yea Sonnen has pillow hands, true he did hit Andy 289 times and barely did any damage, as the above posters state, hit someone lightly with a pencil that many times it'll leave a mark.

Shit Sonnen is 2 steps above Ben Askren in terms of MMA skill, those two being that one Sonnen doesn't fall down when he throws a punch, and two that he attempts (even if he fails) GnP, but his version of GnP is enough not to get stood up, ya know Lay And pray?


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## lpbigd4444 (Oct 1, 2008)

hadoq said:


> I like Sonnen, Silva, Ortiz, Rampage etc... there's no one I really dislike, except maybe Evans, not that I care that much tho.
> 
> am I normal ?
> 
> ...


he is a cool dude my brother got his number off of his old realtor site before his license was taken from him and actually texted him until he got a response. Chael called my brother and they had like a 5 minute conversation. My brother and i like Chael a lot and we root for anderson to lose although we of course respect his talent and we just said to the guy "we are sorry for your loss to anderson but we appreciate you whooping his ass and backing up your trash talk". He responded by saying "it was my pleasure i can't wait to do it again and next time i'll take his belt too" 

So i def think hes a cool dude for giving us 5 minutes of his time even though he had no idea who we were


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

ArcherCC said:


> Are you freaking serious? A 'nice' guy says Lance Armstrong gave himself cancer by roiding? A 'Nice' guy constantly makes public statements then lies about saying them, even when faced with a recording of it? If that's what you call a Nice guy, you need to rethink the meaning of the word.
> 
> now on topic, yea Sonnen has pillow hands, true he did hit Andy 289 times and barely did any damage, as the above posters state, *hit someone lightly with a pencil that many times it'll leave a mark.*
> 
> Shit Sonnen is 2 steps above Ben Askren in terms of MMA skill, those two being that one Sonnen doesn't fall down when he throws a punch, and two that he attempts (even if he fails) GnP, but his version of GnP is enough not to get stood up, ya know Lay And pray?


All of that was promoting a fight, and it worked. If i recall that was the highest viewed Anderson Silva fight. 

You hit someone lightly with a pencil eventually you might go through the skin. And if you dont, the mark that will be left behind will be grayish/black and be made out of led. 
And if you hit Anderson Silvz in the head with a pencil with the eraser portion then i doubt there would be any sort of mark. 
You guys are greatly exaggerating in order to shit on Chael. Nothing new there :bored04:


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

ArcherCC said:


> Are you freaking serious? A 'nice' guy says Lance Armstrong gave himself cancer by roiding? A 'Nice' guy constantly makes public statements then lies about saying them, even when faced with a recording of it? If that's what you call a Nice guy, you need to rethink the meaning of the word.
> 
> now on topic, yea Sonnen has pillow hands, true he did hit Andy 289 times and barely did any damage, as the above posters state, hit someone lightly with a pencil that many times it'll leave a mark.
> 
> Shit Sonnen is 2 steps above Ben Askren in terms of MMA skill, those two being that one Sonnen doesn't fall down when he throws a punch, and two that he attempts (even if he fails) GnP, but his version of GnP is enough not to get stood up, ya know Lay And pray?


Thats hilarious that you don't like Sonnen because he's not a "nice guy", yet you have an avatar of Brock the ultimate douche bag Lesnar. Sonnen is more of a mixed martial artist than Brock will ever be. Sonnen stood with the best striker in the sport... and even rocked him. Yeah he's not a striker, but he does strike. Brock is a pure wrestler. I'm not sure why you're bringing this up as a negative point considering who you're obviously a fan of.

So since Sonnen has pillow hands, then Silva's win was no big deal right? Anyone could lay there for 23 minutes while getting hit in the head 289 times and come back to win?



lpbigd4444 said:


> he is a cool dude my brother got his number off of his old realtor site before his license was taken from him and actually texted him until he got a response. Chael called my brother and they had like a 5 minute conversation. My brother and i like Chael a lot and we root for anderson to lose although we of course respect his talent and we just said to the guy "we are sorry for your loss to anderson but we appreciate you whooping his ass and backing up your trash talk". He responded by saying "it was my pleasure i can't wait to do it again and next time i'll take his belt too"
> 
> So i def think hes a cool dude for giving us 5 minutes of his time even though he had no idea who we were


Yeah me and my bro did this too. He texted back and was super cool. We asked a lot of questions and he was quick to reply while while seeming super chill. I've been a fan ever since.

The guy knows how to hype a fight and get media attention. He really does treat his fans very well though.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Thats hilarious that you don't like Sonnen because he's not a "nice guy", yet you have an avatar of Brock the ultimate douche bag Lesnar. Sonnen is more of a mixed martial artist than Brock will ever be. Sonnen stood with the best striker in the sport... and even rocked him. Yeah he's not a striker, but he does strike. Brock is a pure wrestler. I'm not sure why you're bringing this up as a negative point considering who you're obviously a fan of.
> 
> So since Sonnen has pillow hands, then Silva's win was no big deal right? Anyone could lay there for 23 minutes while getting hit in the head 289 times and come back to win?
> 
> ...


Yeah i actually have Chael Sonens number/fax/email right now. Not sure if it is current though.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Yeah i actually have Chael Sonens number/fax/email right now. Not sure if it is current though.


I tried to call him after the Silva fight to tell him good job...

It went straight to voicemail. I was sad.


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

Well if you call any professional fighter 'pillow hands' Sonnen would be a good place to start.

I wouldn't, because even the worst pro would turn any amateurs lights out effortlessly.

Sonnen does only have 7 KO/TKO in what, 35+ fights, and none of those in the UFC, or even the WEC. By professional standards, he definitely does not hit hard, even considering the fact he relies more on his wrestling than his striking.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Finnsidious said:


> Well if you call any professional fighter 'pillow hands' Sonnen would be a good place to start.
> 
> I wouldn't, because even the worst pro would turn any amateurs lights out effortlessly.
> 
> Sonnen does only have 7 KO/TKO in what, 35+ fights, and none of those in the UFC, or even the WEC. By professional standards, he definitely does not hit hard, even considering the fact he relies more on his wrestling than his striking.


Or it could be that CHael Sonnen has a fighting style that makes getting KO's hard. Chael likes to ride full guard instead of getting full mount.

Anderson Silva has 34 fights but only has 6 submission victories. Does this mean that Anderson Silva lacks proper submission skills because he only has 6 sub wins???
Of-course not.

But im sure someone is going to try and use backassed Logic on Chael Sonnen but when you use the same backassed Logic against Anderson Silva, now that backassed logic doesnt work that way. :sarcastic12:


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## ArcherCC (Dec 12, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Thats hilarious that you don't like Sonnen because he's not a "nice guy", yet you have an avatar of Brock the ultimate douche bag Lesnar. Sonnen is more of a mixed martial artist than Brock will ever be. Sonnen stood with the best striker in the sport... and even rocked him. Yeah he's not a striker, but he does strike. Brock is a pure wrestler. I'm not sure why you're bringing this up as a negative point considering who you're obviously a fan of.


Please explain to me what makes Brock a douche bag? His Size? The fact that he doesn't like to broadcast his life? His wish for privacy for his family? Is it that he hunts? What is it? 

My reasons for hating Chael are clear (Liar, Cheater, Felon) I am not going to go back into a huge detailed argument over it, yet again. I just don;t understand how anyone can root for him, but that's me I have morals, intelligence, and don't find calling out someone 100LBS bigger then me who I will never fight funny, but that's just me, so don't let ya know common sense interfere here on the internets.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

ArcherCC said:


> Please explain to me what makes Brock a douche bag? His Size? The fact that he doesn't like to broadcast his life? His wish for privacy for his family? Is it that he hunts? What is it?


The fact that he is a douche bag. He has a "I'm bigger than you so I can kick your ass" attitude. You can see it clear as day every time he talks and in his mannerisms. He thinks he can say and do whatever he wants just because he's big. Yelling at a half conscious opponent who's stumbling back into the cage. One minute saying "I might get on top of my wife tonight" and the next "I'm blessed by God". What a ******* joke. Pushing two cops out of the way on his entrance without even looking twice like a total douche bag. There's just a couple.



> My reasons for hating Chael are clear (Liar, Cheater, Felon) I am not going to go back into a huge detailed argument over it, yet again. I just don;t understand how anyone can root for him, but that's me I have morals, intelligence, and don't find calling out someone 100LBS bigger then me who I will never fight funny, but that's just me, so don't let ya know common sense interfere here on the internets.


Haha. Yeah. Insinuating I have no morals, intelligence, or common sense because I support a fighter. Good one. 

My reasons for hating Brock are clear. I understand why you don't like Chael. I just find it funny and ironic that you mentioned Chael being "not nice" as a reason... with a guy like Lesnar in your avatar. There's some common sense for yah.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

I'm going to try and give an unbiased opinion as one of the biggest Chael-haters on the board. I'm not looking to get in any negative discussions or fights with this, so that kind of poster plz stay away. But to answer pheelgood who I think is a good poster and seems to be a nice guy I feel I need to give an opinion on this.

Leaving my bias & hate I would say no Sonnen does not have "pillow hands", noone does at this level of the sport.
He does not have the most power competing at the highest level of the middleweight division thats for sure. So I guess it depends what you compare him with. He is a wrestler IMO fairly one-dimensional even tho his fans claim him to have some sort of boxing-career in his background. The fightingstyle he has is basicly take people down, stay in guard and throw ALOT of shots(atleast lately). I believe it is much due to his style of not putting much power in his shots, and mainly just wanting to stay on top and not get stood up or swept, thats why he doesn't get much power behind it.

I don't think he is one of the most powerful strikers in the division, I would probably even put him in the bottom of that category. Yes he is able to drop someone & yes he has some KOs of nonames so ofcourse he doesn't have "pillow hands" but compared to other guys his size at the same level he has pretty weak striking. If due to not trying to put power behind it or just lacking power or both, who knows.

Reagrding him being a LNP no he's not, ofcourse not, he stays very active. The thing is that there is no word for what he does & the closest thing us non-fans can think of is the word Lay N Pray but it's not really the correct term ofcourse & everyone including us haters know that. 
What people who don't like his style is getting annoyed at is that he inflicts little damage with his shots & probably doesn't even try. he likes to just wrestle guys to the ground and hold them, but knows he will be stood up if he LnPs so he stays active, hence the LnP comparison. But no it's not the same. So I guess we need a new term for it. "ground & pitterpatter" might be an idea.

And to the guys who are going to say "well get in the octagon with him and see for yourself how weak it is" I can only say plz don't even talk to me on this board because I'm not a professional MMA-fighter & I'm a natural lightweight so no, that would not prove anything at all about Chaels power at middleweight compared to the best fighters in the world.

That is my unbiased, non-trolling, honest opinion.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

well damage is all up to how good an opponents guard is, if its loose and crap sonnen or someone will posture up and stand over you reigning down blows like in briefs moments in all his fights and most moments in his fight with bryan baker. so the little damage opinion is simply because of this.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

The whole discussion and in particular the pencil comments remind me of this:


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

MMAforum has two kinds of users:

Guys who think Chael Sonnen is a good guy who gets a bad rep becuse of his trashtalk and a misunderstanding with the Athletic Commission. 

or

Guys who think Chael Sonnen is a douche who can't back up his trashtalk, and who willingly cheated. 

Whether or not he rocked Silva in the first is not up for debate. There are 11 bajillion gifs and videos of this incident. Whether he rocked Silva because he has strong punching power, or because Silva's ribs were bruised and he was mouth breathing is what is up for debate. Whatever the reason for the rockage, he did break the record for the most punches thrown in a single 3 rounds of a UFC fight, and still didn't leave a mark.

I don't know what that says about his power.


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> All of that was promoting a fight, and it worked. If i recall that was the highest viewed Anderson Silva fight.
> 
> You hit someone lightly with a pencil eventually you might go through the skin. And if you dont, the mark that will be left behind will be grayish/black and be made out of led.
> And if you hit Anderson Silvz in the head with a pencil with the eraser portion then i doubt there would be any sort of mark.
> You guys are greatly exaggerating in order to shit on Chael. Nothing new there :bored04:


Silva's highest PPV buyrates:

vs. Griffin- 825k
vs. Belfort- 725k
vs. Leites- 650k
vs. Sonnen- 600k

To be fair, those cards had more star power in the other main card fights, but Silva vs. Sonnen had a good supporting cast, even though Fitch was in the co-main. Nothing against Fitch, but he doesn't sell PPVs, see Penn vs. Fitch.

The initial estimate for Silva vs. Sonnen was much higher, but it was based on pre-fight metrics that used internet traffic to help estimate public interest in a PPV. But the increased web traffic from Sonnen's statements didn't translate into a massive buyrate. A pretty good one, but not a record for Silva. 


I, like you've said throughout this thread, don't think the presence of contusions, abrasions, or even some lacerations is a good way to determine damage done or punching power. The same blunt trauma can cause different marks on different people, but that doesn't mean it didn't hurt them equally. It would be an incredibly superficial way to determine damage.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Guys like Anderson Silva simply don't show damage done, period. BJ Penn is another great example. GSP beat him literally almost to death and he barely had a mark on him. And GSP was dropping mega elbows, huge hammer fists, etc, same with Chael vs. Silva.


I guarantee you Silva got the shit beat out of him that fight. Double hammer fist ear box, giant hooks on the ground, knees to the tailbone, elbows to the sciatic nerve... if Silva was Bisping or Hughes' skin tone and you saw him naked after that fight, he'd be nothing but purple.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Chael doesn't have KO power but he doesn't have pillow hands like Jake Shields. About the only way he is scoring a clean knockdown on a guy without a glass jaw though is by punching him in the back of the head like he did Andy. Chael landed several solid strong punches but every strike Anderson landed made Chael's body flail and brought an expression to his face like he wanted to scream and cry at the same time. The damage wasn't nearly as far apart as the strike count but that is because Andy has ridiculous power standing and off of his back and the total was inflated by the stuff Chael was doing to not get stood up.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

SmackyBear said:


> Silva's highest PPV buyrates:
> 
> vs. Griffin- 825k
> vs. Belfort- 725k
> ...


Your right my statement was wrong. But i left room for doubt in that statement lol.
For some reason i remember there being articles saying that Sonnen vs Silva was supposed to hit a million buys. I guess those were early estimates completely off basis. 


To be fair though
Silva vs Forrest was Silva moving up to LHW.
Silva vs belfort came AFTER Silva vs Sonnen
And Silva vs Sonnen came directly after the horrendous Maia vs Silva fight. No one wanted to order a Silva ppv after that snooze fest. 

And i actually am surprised Silva vs Leites beat Silva vs Sonnen when common sense said that Silva vs leites was going to be a horrible fight. Do you know who else was on that card?? The number pretty much surprises me, so i figure it must have had some other drawing power.


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> Your right my statement was wrong. But i left room for doubt in that statement lol.
> For some reason i remember there being articles saying that Sonnen vs Silva was supposed to hit a million buys. I guess those were early estimates completely off basis.
> 
> 
> ...


All fair points.

Chuck-Shogun was the co-main on the Silva-Leites card. Chuck undoubtedly boosted the buys, even if he was coming off getting KO'd by Rashad.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

Sonnen has no KO power, he has TKO'd a few cans though. He mearly throws a few punches whilst Fitching to look busy and not be told to stand back up by the ref.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

pipe said:


> Sonnen has no KO power, he has TKO'd a few cans though. He mearly throws a few punches whilst Fitching to look busy and not be told to stand back up by the ref.


^This is exactly why I made this thread.

No KO power doesn't = pillow hands. Throws a few punches? You mean setting the record for most punches landed in a fight? Not to mention he's done pretty damn well in the standup department in his last few fights too.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

PheelGoodInc said:


> ^This is exactly why I made this thread.
> 
> No KO power doesn't = pillow hands. Throws a few punches? You mean setting the record for most punches landed in a fight? Not to mention he's done pretty damn well in the standup department in his last few fights too.


Im calling bullshit on the 'setting the record for most punches in a fight'. Even if this is true, where did it get him? Silva was never in danger of being finished, thus backing up my point of him having pillow hands. With al those punches being thrown surely if he had any power he should have had the fight finished.

for the record (and I may be wrong but..) I thought Nick Diaz had the most punches thrown in a fight (may have been in a round) vs Scott Smith.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

pipe said:


> Im calling bullshit on the 'setting the record for most punches in a fight'. Even if this is true, where did it get him? Silva was never in danger of being finished, thus backing up my point of him having pillow hands. With al those punches being thrown surely if he had any power he should have had the fight finished.
> 
> for the record (and I may be wrong but..) I thought Nick Diaz had the most punches thrown in a fight (may have been in a round) vs Scott Smith.





> According to Compustrike, Chael Sonnen set a Compustrike record with the most strikes landed in an MMA fight. Take it easy all of you Fox News viewers, hope isn't entirely lost for your self-appointed representative. Sonnen attempted 416 strikes with 289 landing in the bout. That's a percentage of 69% compared to Anderson's 29/62 strike ratio. Out of those 289 strikes landed on Anderson, 270 occurred while they were on the ground at a rate of 75%.
> 
> http://middleeasy.com/images/stories...fc117graph.jpg


He was less than 2 minutes away from "finishing" the fight with 10-8 rounds across the board. Anderson was in danger of losing his title in dominating fasion for 23 minutes. Thats where it got him. Not to mention he set this record on one of the best p4p fighters in the world. Thats damn impressive. People let their hate for Sonnen ignore this information because they don't like or understand his humor. Meanwhile they don't realize that they are down playing an epic comeback on the part of Silva.

So you're logic is no finsh = no power? I'm not saying he's a super powerful guy. But he's definitely not "pillow hands". No one at UFC level is really pillow hands. But since you think so, which is it. Did Anderson have a great comeback or is Sonnen pillowhands? Either Chael did no damage and it was an easy comeback, or Chael was beating the shit out of Silva and Silva defied the odds. You can only logicly pick one and anyone with a bit of common sense will pick the last one.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> He was less than 2 minutes away from "finishing" the fight with 10-8 rounds across the board.


Waiting for the time to pass is not the same as finishing the fight. Chael was never even remotely close to finish the fight. That talk of the most punches landed in a fight is just stupid, only nuthuggers call those girly touches to be punches. If those 289 hits were punches Silva would be on coma to say the least.

Besides everybody in this thread is concerning to Silva fight to determine if Chael has pillow hands. That's a fail by itself because it's clear that Chael's strategy was never to finish the fight, but instead, staying on top, pretend to look busy until the end of the 25 minutes thus trowing fake punches in order to not gass himself out. So, if the power behind those punches are deliberately on hold, why use that to try to say if Chael has pillow hands? 

I'm starting to think this thread only serves for Chael nuthuggers to rub those 289 "hits" in Silva's fans face.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> He was less than 2 minutes away from "finishing" the fight with 10-8 rounds across the board. Anderson was in danger of losing his title in dominating fasion for 23 minutes. Thats where it got him. Not to mention he set this record on one of the best p4p fighters in the world. Thats damn impressive. People let their hate for Sonnen ignore this information because they don't like or understand his humor. Meanwhile they don't realize that they are down playing an epic comeback on the part of Silva.
> 
> So you're logic is no finsh = no power? I'm not saying he's a super powerful guy. But he's definitely not "pillow hands". No one at UFC level is really pillow hands. But since you think so, which is it. Did Anderson have a great comeback or is Sonnen pillowhands? Either Chael did no damage and it was an easy comeback, or Chael was beating the shit out of Silva and Silva defied the odds. You can only logicly pick one and anyone with a bit of common sense will pick the last one.


Well honestly tho it was an epic comeback, but the fact that Sonnen was busted for roiding afterwars & the idea that Silva was injured (wich I believe) kind of makes it a 3rd alternative. I mean it's a fact that Sonnen was winning handily on the scorecards but since IMO Silva didn't look at all like himself in that fight and Sonnen was busted for roids afterwards, Sonnens performance just doesn't feel very impressive. Like I said in an earlier post I don't think he has "pillow-hands" the difference is simply that his fans are super impressed with him hitting the numer one p4p guy a record amount of times. his non-fans are not so impressed due to the circumstances.

I guess it's kind of an agree to disagree situation because Sonnens fans will always claim that Silva was not seriously injured while the people on the other side will claim the opposite. same pretty much goes for the roiding, where Sonne-fans claim that it has no effect on the outcome of a fight and us on the other side will claim that it sure as hell does.

It's all in how you chose to look at it:

Your view: Sonnen took the numer one P4P guy down at will and dominated him, landing a record amount of punches & just got unlucky & submitted late in the last round.

My view: Sonnen talked ALOT of trash, he cheated, his opponent was injured before the fight & he still lost the fight. landing a record amount of punches & at the same time doing hardly any visible damage & using a style of fighting that I find annoying.

So using my view of things you can really not be impressed by Sonnens performance without downplaying Silvas.

I guess bias always plays a part no matter what side you are on, can't get away from it. We just see the facts in a different way.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

^Thats not quite accurate with my view.

I see Sonnen doing what he did again without the roids. I see Andy probably doing the same thing again without the injury. I don't see much changing in that fight... except MAYBE Sonnen might not get subbed. But thats up in the air and all speculation.

I give Silva all the credit in the world. He overcame adversity and won a fight that will make him even more of a legend than he is. It was a hell of a comeback and an epic fight all around.

If Silva retires undefeated, that fight will be talked about forever in MMA. I don't want people taking away from what Silva did by calling Chael "pillow hands". That's extremely dis-respectful to Silva.

FYI I like Silva. I'm not a crazy fan, but I'm a fan. I'm a bigger fan of Sonnen just because he reminds me of a young Chevy Chase and he's a wrestler. I really do think I have a pretty un-biased view on the fight compared to most.




AmdM said:


> Waiting for the time to pass is not the same as finishing the fight. Chael was never even remotely close to finish the fight. That talk of the most punches landed in a fight is just stupid, only nuthuggers call those girly touches to be punches. If those 289 hits were punches Silva would be on coma to say the least.
> 
> Besides everybody in this thread is concerning to Silva fight to determine if Chael has pillow hands. That's a fail by itself because it's clear that Chael's strategy was never to finish the fight, but instead, staying on top, pretend to look busy until the end of the 25 minutes thus trowing fake punches in order to not gass himself out. So, if the power behind those punches are deliberately on hold, why use that to try to say if Chael has pillow hands?
> 
> I'm starting to think this thread only serves for Chael nuthuggers to rub those 289 "hits" in Silva's fans face.


Fake punches? Really? I understand you hate Chael but come on man. At least pretend to be a little un-biased. And Chael was 2 minutes away from finishing the fight with the belt around his waist. If you don't like that then write to Dana and complain about championship round #'s and times. Also, how do you know how much damage Silva really took? Because he didn't show damage? Thats been discussed to death.

Chael was playing it safe, no doubt. There's a lot of fighters who's plans are to only finish the fight if it's safe. That has NOTHING to do with having "pillow hands" or not. Again, your bias is clouding your rationale.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> He was less than 2 minutes away from "finishing" the fight with 10-8 rounds across the board. Anderson was in danger of losing his title in dominating fasion for 23 minutes.


He was going to get a good and undisputed decision win, but that's not "finishing".



PheelGoodInc said:


> Thats where it got him. Not to mention he set this record on one of the best p4p fighters in the world. Thats damn impressive. People let their hate for Sonnen ignore this information because they don't like or understand his humor. Meanwhile they don't realize that they are down playing an epic comeback on the part of Silva.


No, it's not downplaying Silva's comeback, because Sonnen did a wonderful Wrestler's job in keeping Silva on his back and nobody would have objected a decision win for Sonnen if he had brought it over to the final bell.



PheelGoodInc said:


> So you're logic is no finsh = no power? I'm not saying he's a super powerful guy. But he's definitely not "pillow hands". No one at UFC level is really pillow hands. But since you think so, which is it. Did Anderson have a great comeback or is Sonnen pillowhands? Either Chael did no damage and it was an easy comeback, or Chael was beating the shit out of Silva and Silva defied the odds. You can only logicly pick one and anyone with a bit of common sense will pick the last one.


Ok, granted that fighters at UFC level have more power than the average Joe, then lets call it "pillow hands compared to UFC standards" (or at least he only uses pillow hands, may it be out of tactical choice, but fact is he hasn't finished any of his UFC fights so far). If you rewatch the fight you'll see that, unless Sonnen postures up, Silva doesn't even really care to defend Sonnen's shots to his face/head. Several times he even lets Sonnen repeat the same punch 5-6 and more times without defending them directly. That does tell something about the power of Sonnen's shots (or at least about the shots he threw in that fight).


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Fake punches? Really? I understand you hate Chael but come on man. At least pretend to be a little un-biased. And Chael was 2 minutes away from finishing the fight with the belt around his waist. If you don't like that then write to Dana and complain about championship round #'s and times. Also, how do you know how much damage Silva really took? Because he didn't show damage? Thats been discussed to death.
> 
> Chael was playing it safe, no doubt. There's a lot of fighters who's plans are to only finish the fight if it's safe. That has NOTHING to do with having "pillow hands" or not. Again, your bias is clouding your rationale.


You fail to even touch all the valid reasons i present, i wonder why.. or maybe it's just convenient. 

I'm done trying to get some reality in someone so biased and blinded as you are in this matter.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Everybody"s entitled to an opinion. Greg thinks he hits pretty hard.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

oldfan said:


> Everybody"s entitled to an opinion. Greg thinks he hits pretty hard.


Greg Curnut is also 1-4 with his only win by cut... and hasn't fought in eight years.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

HexRei said:


> Greg Curnut is also 1-4 with his only win by cut... and hasn't fought in eight years.


yeah...welll...he could still beat 7/10 posters in this thread.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

HexRei said:


> Greg Curnut is also 1-4 with his only win by cut... and hasn't fought in eight years.


Yeah and it wasn't like it was a ko, the ref stopped it due to the guy not defending himself, he looked pretty unharmed.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I can't help it if his other (t)ko's were so brutal i can't find video of them. +rep to anyone with the flying knee KO.:thumb02:


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

lol. I forgot he needed roids to 'try' to hold down silva for 5 rounds.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

pipe said:


> lol. I forgot he needed roids to 'try' to hold down silva for 5 rounds.


No he didn't.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Terror Kovenant said:


> No he didn't.


Since he chose to roid and they have fought only the one time, we don't know for sure, but I think its safe to say he would not have been as successful without them. People don't take roids because it makes them weaker, they take them for the advantage it provides.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

HexRei said:


> Since he chose to roid and they have fought only the one time, we don't know for sure, but I think its safe to say he would not have been as successful without them. People don't take roids because it makes them weaker.


*
Its safe to say he would not have been as successful??*

Do you know that Steroids isnt some kind of magic that makes someones technique in wrestling better. He would have held Anderson Silva down with or without Hormone Replacement Therapy. Its actually a bit different from the regular "Steroids" that people think of when the term steroids get thrown around.

Also

Who ever said that "roids" make you weaker.

No one has said that and you shouldn't try to make it seem like thats what anyone is inferring when going on chaels behalf.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> *
> Its safe to say he would not have been as successful??*
> 
> Do you know that Steroids isnt some kind of magic that makes someones technique in wrestling better. He would have held Anderson Silva down with or without Hormone Replacement Therapy. Its actually a bit different from the regular "Steroids" that people think of when the term steroids get thrown around.
> ...


Yes, I've used PED's before. I don't compete, but I work out and I have a pretty good idea of how they help you, and they do help you. He was able to train longer and harder, recover faster, and build more endurance and strength than without them. 

You can't do anything in a fight without endurance and the strength to execute your techniques successfuly against your opponent. Tiring more slowly and having extra strength are both bonuses here. It's ludicrous to suggest that it doesn't affect performance. He wouldn't use them if they didn't.



> Who ever said that "roids" make you weaker.


 That was sarcasm, which I thought was pretty obvious. 

However it does seem to be suggested here by some that they *don't improve potential athletic ability*. And they definitely, by all studies and anecdotal evidence available, all else being equal, *do*.


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## iSHACKABUKU (Sep 11, 2007)

> Do you know that Steroids isnt some kind of magic that makes someones technique in wrestling better. He would have held Anderson Silva down with or without Hormone Replacement Therapy


I think you are completly wrong, there is absolutly no way to verify this statement at all other then your intuition. 

Looking at the facts on the other hand, Silva beat a roiding Chael, so Silva would DESTROY a non roing Chael.

the benefit of the doubt sure as hell does not go to the cheater! Not to mention Andersons injuries and the fact we planned on submiting him!

Who knows maybe he will talk his way into Anderson's fist soon enough, sure as hell wont earn it tho. Prob roided every fight he has fought just wasnt caught. IM sure he didnt become a cheater over night.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Sonnen is a comedy genius and a hell of a fighter that is all you need to know :thumb02:


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

HexRei said:


> Yes, I've used PED's before. I don't compete, but I work out and I have a pretty good idea of how they help you, and they do help you. He was able to train longer and harder, recover faster, and build more endurance and strength than without them.
> 
> You can't do anything in a fight without endurance and the strength to execute your techniques successful. More endurance and strength helps. It's ludicrous to suggest that it doesn't affect performance. He wouldn't use them if they didn't.
> 
> That was sarcasm. However it does seem to be suggested here by some that they *don't improve potential athletic ability*. And they definitely, by all studies and anecdotal evidence available, all else being equal, *do*.


I dont think a man in their right mind says that it doesn't affect his performance. Obviously it helped his performance BUT he still would have taken Silva down because his technique is much better then Andersons. Its possibly Chael would have faded somewhere in the 4th round if he didn't take them. But if Chaels testosterone was normal then he wouldn't have that problem to begin with. 

You shouldn't make sarcastic remarks like that because it by all rights makes people defending Chael seem stupid when in reality i dont think anyone has made comments like that. In alot of ways i think saying that is actually twisting peoples words around and not actually addressing the real comments.



BTW
Maybe you know because i dont. What were Chaels testosterone levels?? From what i know Chaels case isnt anything like Nates. I dont think they mentioned Chael went in there with sky rocketed Testosterone levels. I thought the problem was that Chael didnt file paperwork because he thought the 2 fights before that would have been enough. (Im paraphrasing).
Do you know if the people are claiming that Chaels testosterone levels were way too high?


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

HexRei said:


> Greg Curnut is also 1-4 with his only win by cut... and hasn't fought in eight years.


That was a state champ wrestler? Wow. Chael made him look like a freshman in high school.

State champs are now joke. Hell, even making it to to state means you're a total ******* badass. Being a state champ means you are elite. Chael tool'd that guy like it was his first day. Good for Chael.



AmdM said:


> You fail to even touch all the valid reasons i present, i wonder why.. or maybe it's just convenient.
> 
> I'm done trying to get some reality in someone so biased and blinded as you are in this matter.



Uhg. You might as well have just admitted defeat.

It's obvious I responded to every point you made. But instead of even trying to defend yourself you post this generic obvious "I have no response" statement. So be it. 

FYI I would have a lot more respect for you if you even tried to back your points I ripped apart.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

You didn't ripped my post apart.
In fact you did a great job of avoiding all the valid points i brought up, so how come you find yourself ripping my post apart?
If you don't want to debate all the aspects related to this, then i can't make you to, but i 'll call your response to be a coward one.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

oldfan said:


> Everybody"s entitled to an opinion. Greg thinks he hits pretty hard.


Chael...finishing somebody? This is unreal. I had heard myths of Chael having fights end before the 15 minutes without him being submitted but it was always in a distant "oh my cousins brother's roommate knows a poster on Sherdog who saw it happen" kind of way. To just see it like that... it shakes my view of the world. Makes me question everything. Is there a God? Was ancient man really visited by aliens? Was Mayor McCheese really a horrible birth defect or was he actually cursed by a demon? I just don't know anymore.


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> I dont think a man in their right mind says that it doesn't affect his performance. Obviously it helped his performance BUT he still would have taken Silva down because his technique is much better then Andersons. Its possibly Chael would have faded somewhere in the 4th round if he didn't take them. But if Chaels testosterone was normal then he wouldn't have that problem to begin with.
> 
> You shouldn't make sarcastic remarks like that because it by all rights makes people defending Chael seem stupid when in reality i dont think anyone has made comments like that. In alot of ways i think saying that is actually twisting peoples words around and not actually addressing the real comments.
> 
> ...


One test isn't really enough to diagnose hypogonadism, since the level fluctuates based on time of day and what you're doing.

But according to Chael's doctor, before he went on TRT, he was at 370 ng/dl. Low, but higher than the low end of the normal range. After being on it for two and a half years, he was tested again and his natural production was down to 111 ng/dl. Those were the only tests taken before the fight that his doctor would later file with the commission. Normally, he would be tested every six weeks. 

The test Sonnen failed was a urine test that only is analogous to the level of total testosterone in your system compared to your natural testosterone. It doesn't actually tell your level of testosterone. His ratio of total testosterone to epitestosterone (in most people is equal to natural testosterone) was 16.9:1. I've seen people apply 111 or 370 ng/dl as the natural testosterone and multiply it by 16.9, and say 1876 or 6253 ng/dl is what his level was. That might seem logical, but it's a big assumption. His testosterone level might have been different and we don't know if his natural T:E ratio is exactly 1:1.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

deadmanshand said:


> Chael...finishing somebody? This is unreal. I had heard myths of Chael having fights end before the 15 minutes without him being submitted but it was always in a distant "oh my cousins brother's roommate knows a poster on Sherdog who saw it happen" kind of way. To just see it like that... it shakes my view of the world. Makes me question everything. Is there a God? Was ancient man really visited by aliens? Was Mayor McCheese really a horrible birth defect or was he actually cursed by a demon? I just don't know anymore.


It's true! chael once finished 3 (III) that's THREE fighters in a row. He even has a KO by flying knee. But, some vast left wing conspiracy has erased all eveidence from the web and even the memories from men's minds.

Chael has powerful enemies.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

Well shiver my timbers he does have a KO by flying knee. Is there seriously no video of this?

Any how, if Chael was 'on the juice' for the Silva fight what makes anyone think he wasnt for all his other fights? Would he have beaten(by beating i mean layy on top of for 3 rounds) Marquardt and Okami if not juicing.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)




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## "El Guapo" (Jun 25, 2010)

Dont get me wrong Chael is a top 3 MW imo, but facts are facts. Dana white recently said anderson silva was injured - we have to accept this with face value. AS beat Chael whilst his test was something like 4 times the normal level. How anyone can say Chael would have done what he did to Anderson considering the factors above is beyond me.

As an unbiased opinion, it would be more likely that AS would have a GREATER chance of winning this time even though he won the first match? (not taking into account the nogs feeling disrespected submission win yadayada).

As for my personal (somewhat biased) opinion, Anderson will TKO Chael within 2 rounds in a rematch and all of the talk can go away. Needless to say in the odds are ANYWHERE near close I will be betting my own dollar on this match.


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

pipe said:


> Any how, if Chael was 'on the juice' for the Silva fight what makes anyone think he wasnt for all his other fights? Would he have beaten(by beating i mean layy on top of for 3 rounds) Marquardt and Okami if not juicing.


I'm not sure how anyone could think he wasn't using for any his recent fights. In his first CSAC hearing, he admitted he had been undergoing TRT since early 2008.

Would it have made a difference? I don't know. But what's his best MMA achievement before he had it?


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

AmdM said:


> You didn't ripped my post apart.
> In fact you did a great job of avoiding all the valid points i brought up, so how come you find yourself ripping my post apart?
> If you don't want to debate all the aspects related to this, then i can't make you to, but i 'll call your response to be a coward one.


Ad hominem. What points did I not hit? Pretty sure I hit every one, just for you to reply by dodging my entire response. By all means, post them here and I'll hit them again. You won't though because I already did and it's too easy for you to try and leave the debate without actually debating.

Either debate or stop talking to me. I'm not going to play juvenile games. It's clear you don't want to debate, but rather have some false claim of victory to make yourself feel better about being ripped apart. Thats fine. Run along then.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

SmackyBear said:


> One test isn't really enough to diagnose hypogonadism, since the level fluctuates based on time of day and what you're doing.
> 
> But according to Chael's doctor, before he went on TRT, he was at 370 ng/dl. Low, but higher than the low end of the normal range. After being on it for two and a half years, he was tested again and his natural production was down to 111 ng/dl. Those were the only tests taken before the fight that his doctor would later file with the commission. Normally, he would be tested every six weeks.
> 
> The test Sonnen failed was a urine test that only is analogous to the level of total testosterone in your system compared to your natural testosterone. It doesn't actually tell your level of testosterone. His ratio of total testosterone to epitestosterone (in most people is equal to natural testosterone) was 16.9:1. I've seen people apply 111 or 370 ng/dl as the natural testosterone and multiply it by 16.9, and say 1876 or 6253 ng/dl is what his level was. That might seem logical, but it's a big assumption. His testosterone level might have been different and we don't know if his natural T:E ratio is exactly 1:1.


So correct me if I'm wrong, but in laymans terms that would mean that when he started his TRT his levels where not below normal range but in the low of normal. Also his levels where far over normal when they last checked in connection with the Silva fight? 16.9:1 is almost 17 times higher than 1:1 and even if you suppose that a normal human could have 3:1, 16.9:1 is waaay over normal correct?


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

The odds that he naturally has hypogonadism are astronomically low. Especially when you consider that he was a world-class wrestler and fighter while allegedly suffering from it all the way up to 2008 when he was prescribed TRT (remember he claimed to the commission that he "never went through puberty"). 

The chances that he gave it to himself with roids, then needed the roids just to maintain his higher levels, then decided it was too dangerous to his career to keep roiding illegally given that tests were being stepped up, and found a doctor who found a decent excuse for him to take it legally... well, it's by far the more likely scenario.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

PheelGoodInc said:


> ^Thats not quite accurate with my view.
> 
> I see Sonnen doing what he did again without the roids. I see Andy probably doing the same thing again without the injury. I don't see much changing in that fight... except MAYBE Sonnen might not get subbed. But thats up in the air and all speculation.
> 
> ...




The funny thing is

Even if Chael Sonnen strategy is to never ever finish a fight. That still would not be any kind of evidence of "Pillow Hands".


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

mmaswe82 said:


> So correct me if I'm wrong, but in laymans terms that would mean that when he started his TRT his levels where not below normal range but in the low of normal.


Based on the blood test that was entered into evidence at the hearing by his doctor, yes. Though one blood test does not tell the whole story, it's all that was entered into evidence for him, pre-TRT.



> Also his levels where far over normal when they last checked in connection with the Silva fight? 16.9:1 is almost 17 times higher than 1:1 and even if you suppose that a normal human could have 3:1, 16.9:1 is waaay over normal correct?


It's impossible to definitively state that his overall testosterone was above legal limits based on a T:E ratio test on his urine. However, the odds that his testosterone wasn't above legal limits, is miniscule.


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## Bobby Wheeler (Jun 4, 2011)

He has alot of experience against good competition so of course his boxing has gotten better over time, but he is still an average striker if we are comparing him on the UFC level.He cracked Silva a couple of times in the last fight, but alot of that was because Silva knows that Sonnen has alot of experience, and also knows that Sonnen is a guy that can bust you up in the guard{even if you are a black belt}, and is better than most in submission defense.Roid rage or not.Moral of the story is that Sonnen is not a finisher, but on the flip side of the coin not really a guy you wanna get taken down by either.He is not gonna wanna test those hands next fight because Silva will be in beast mode for the rematch.


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## tigerblood (Mar 20, 2011)

Bobby Wheeler said:


> He has alot of experience against good competition so of course his boxing has gotten better over time, but he is still an average striker if we are comparing him on the UFC level*.He cracked Silva a couple of times in the last fight, but alot of that was because Silva knows that Sonnen has alot of experience*, and also knows that Sonnen is a guy that can bust you up in the guard{even if you are a black belt},* and is better than most in submission defense*.Roid rage or not.Moral of the story is that Sonnen is not a finisher, but on the flip side of the coin not really a guy you wanna get taken down by either.He is not gonna wanna test those hands next fight because Silva will be in beast mode for the rematch.


I dont get what you mean by "_He cracked Silva a couple of times but alot of that was because Silva knows that he has a lot of experiance_"?

And Chael and submission defence should never be used in the same sentence! (This is coming from a huge Sonnen fan)

I do agree with you that he is not a finisher tho, hes similar to Jon Fitch - and i like it!


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

tigerblood said:


> I dont get what you mean by "_He cracked Silva a couple of times but alot of that was because Silva knows that he has a lot of experiance_"?
> 
> And Chael and submission defence should never be used in the same sentence! (This is coming from a huge Sonnen fan)
> 
> I do agree with you that he is not a finisher tho, hes similar to Jon Fitch - and i like it!


Chael Sonnen has OK submission defense. People make it seem worse then it really is. He did a beautiful escape on the triangle Anderson put on him but then got caught with the arm-bar.

Chael Sonnen isnt similar to Fitch


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## tigerblood (Mar 20, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> Chael Sonnen has OK submission defense. People make it seem worse then it really is. He did a beautiful escape on the triangle Anderson put on him but then got caught with the arm-bar.
> 
> Chael Sonnen isnt similar to Fitch


He has shit submission defence.

In your opinion. And he is similar to Jon Fitch the grind out victorys.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

your an absolute idiot if you think fitch and sonnen are similar in any way, the only thing they have in common is method of victory being decision, nothing else.


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## tigerblood (Mar 20, 2011)

UFC_OWNS said:


> your an absolute idiot if you think fitch and sonnen are similar in any way, the only thing they have in common is* method of victory being decision*, nothing else.


So they do have similaritys? Glad you agree.

ALLBLACKS ALLDAY.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

tigerblood said:


> So they do have similaritys? Glad you agree.
> 
> ALLBLACKS ALLDAY.


yep and rampage and rashad are the same too because they both won their last 2 by decision so they must be the same, all blacks will probably barely beat the boks too


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## tigerblood (Mar 20, 2011)

UFC_OWNS said:


> *yep and rampage and rashad are the same too because they both won their last 2 by decision so they must be the same*, all blacks will probably barely beat the boks too


:laugh: Your joking right? My comment went WOOOOOOOSSHH over your head.

And we'll soon see, games about to start and the beers are flowing.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

tigerblood said:


> :laugh: Your joking right? My comment went WOOOOOOOSSHH over your head.
> 
> And we'll soon see, games about to start and the beers are flowing.


all blacks lost to wallabies last time ahaha, what do kiwis know about mma? most of you cant even predict and analyse rugby right:laugh:


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## Bobby Wheeler (Jun 4, 2011)

tigerblood said:


> I dont get what you mean by "_He cracked Silva a couple of times but alot of that was because Silva knows that he has a lot of experiance_"?
> 
> And Chael and submission defence should never be used in the same sentence! (This is coming from a huge Sonnen fan)
> 
> I do agree with you that he is not a finisher tho, hes similar to Jon Fitch - and i like it!


Well you almost got what I meant.Silva got the sub in the 5th round of the last fight, but I was saying Silva was not as aggressive with his striking because he did not want Sonnen to do, basically what he did in the last fight.He was able to land big shots because Silva was worried about the takedown.So by experience I was referring in part to Chael's ability to set up takedowns with strikes.By UFC standards he is an average striker, by if you get caught flush on the chin by any UFC fighter you can go down even if your nickname is the spider.
To touch on your other comment.I think Sonnen is known as one of the best in the world at doing damage in the guard and avoiding subs.True he lost by sub, but when a fight is going his way, more often than not he is spending time in a position that makes him vulnerable to certain subs.


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## tigerblood (Mar 20, 2011)

UFC_OWNS said:


> all blacks lost to wallabies last time ahaha,* what do kiwis know about mma? most of you cant even predict and analyse rugby right*:laugh:


:laugh:

New zealand 40 - South Africa 7

*Newzealand v Australia*
New zealand wins: 95
Australia wins: 39
Draws: 5


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

tigerblood said:


> :laugh:
> 
> New zealand 40 - South Africa 7
> 
> ...


Australia beats All Blacks in final game of 2010 leaving NZ fans crying in Japan, All Blacks havent been to a rugby world cup semi in over 8 years and a final in 16 years, all blacks only world cup trophy came in 1987 while australia has two to their name in 1991 and 1999, 20111 super 15 champions qld reds(AUS). now i wont respond to you anymore because this is a mma forum and btw we smashed the boks who had more stars playing than this game and they didnt have a ref against them thank you.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

UFC_OWNS said:


> yep and rampage and rashad are the same too because they both won their last 2 by decision so they must be the same, all blacks will probably barely beat the boks too


That is exactly what i was thinking.

And btw your first assumption about "You must be an idiot" is very very absolutely 100% correct. Sometimes im amazed that he knows how to use the computer since i doubt he can brush his own teeth or wipe his ass. If i was a betting man i would bet he has someone do those things for him.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

UFC_OWNS said:


> your an absolute idiot if you think fitch and sonnen are similar in any way, the only thing they have in common is method of victory being decision, nothing else.


I cant think of a single fighter that is more like Jon Fitch than Chael Sonnen. You could argue that Shields is but he finishes the occasional fight. In fact the only difference is that fitch has better sub diffence than Chael.

Both look for a takedown asap,
Both do not finish fights,
Both do not have KO power (even when spending most of their fights sat on top of a guy alegidly raining down 'GnP')
Both have weak/no Sub attack
Both have most of their wins via UD.
Both induce bordom upon me.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> Chael Sonnen has OK submission defense. People make it seem worse then it really is. He did a beautiful escape on the triangle Anderson put on him but then got caught with the arm-bar.


No. He was doing a basic escape from a triangle poorly. Yes you do sit up and do your best to look upwards but you also are supposed to tuck your elbows so you don't get armbarred. Do you see the issue? He did one without the other. Meaning he messed up one of the most basic escapes from one of the most common submissions in bjj. That is not OK sub defence. That is piss poor defense.

And, Sideways, could you tone it down a bit. You're being a dick again.


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## tigerblood (Mar 20, 2011)

tigerblood said:


> :laugh:
> 
> New zealand 40 - South Africa 7
> 
> ...


 I REST MY CASE. Typical Aussie, blame the ref :laugh:



SideWays222 said:


> That is exactly what i was thinking.
> 
> *And btw your first assumption about "You must be an idiot" is very very absolutely 100% correct. Sometimes im amazed that he knows how to use the computer since i doubt he can brush his own teeth or wipe his ass. If i was a betting man i would bet he has someone do those things for him.*


Get some help you GOBSHITE. And seriously why are you such a dick. You get over sensitive in every thread :laugh:



pipe said:


> I cant think of a single fighter that is more like Jon Fitch than Chael Sonnen. You could argue that Shields is but he finishes the occasional fight. In fact the only difference is that fitch has better sub diffence than Chael.
> 
> *Both look for a takedown asap,
> Both do not finish fights,
> ...


Im glad someone is thinking with there head and not there ego.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

tigerblood said:


> I REST MY CASE. Typical Aussie, blame the ref :laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hahaha
No one is being sensitive unless it is you.

Did you seriously call me a GOBSHITE??

Oh you can make me laugh in the simplest of ways.


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## tigerblood (Mar 20, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> hahaha
> No one is being sensitive unless it is you.
> 
> Did you seriously call me a GOBSHITE??
> ...





SideWays222 said:


> Who are you again?? and why are you waiting for me?? If you are trying to insinuate that i hate Jon Jones and w/e else people like you say then thats kind of funny. Iv stated multiple times i dont hate Jon Jones. You can disagree with a persons actions without actually disliking the guy. But its easier for Jon Jones fans to chalk it up to "Jon Jones hater" then someone actually just not liking some of the guys actions.
> Anywayyy thats just if you WERE insinuating that! :confused05:
> 
> Anyway
> ...





PheelGoodInc said:


> This is why people say this stuff. You are overly sensitive.
> 
> 
> 
> I LOLD. I assume that you're assuming he's assuming that you're insinuating an assumption. Figure that one out!


Im not the only one saying your sensitive little butterfly.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

tigerblood said:


> Im not the only one saying your sensitive little butterfly.


Lol the posts you quote were an obvious miss understanding. 

Just quit trying Tigerblood. Your not doing yourself any favors making yourself look like a full blown stalker.
But if you wanna keep making me laugh with your overblown responses then please do so. I thoroughly enjoy your pissed off posts.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)




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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Squirrelfighter said:


>


Sadly it was turned into this. I posed some good points (I thought at least).

I think it's hypocritical to praise Anderson for his comeback and call Chael pillow hands at the same time. Seems simple enough.

Perhaps I should just request this thread be locked...

Edit: To the person who said Chael is as boring as Fitch... the Sonnen Silva fight dropped my jaw about 3 times and I was on the edge of my seat the entire time. That was one of the most surprising and entertaining fights I've ever seen. I would LOVE to see a rematch even if it ends the same way. Fitch's last "exciting" fight was him getting beat up by GSP for 5 rounds.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Sadly it was turned into this. I posed some good points (I thought at least).
> 
> I think it's hypocritical to praise Anderson for his comeback and call Chael pillow hands at the same time. Seems simple enough.
> 
> ...


It was exciting from about 2:50 of the 5th round onwards. The rest was Chael looking for a takedown, getting a takedown and lying on top of Silva doing zero damage to Anderson with his pillow hands. Its was a lot like watching Fitch's handy work exept he manages to not get finished.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

pipe said:


> It was exciting from about 2:50 of the 5th round onwards. The rest was Chael looking for a takedown, getting a takedown and lying on top of Silva doing zero damage to Anderson with his pillow hands. Its was a lot like watching Fitch's handy work exept he manages to not get finished.


You must be an Anderson Silva fan. Yes it does tend to suck watching a fighter you like getting punched repeatedly by a fighter you dont like. Btw, it was nothing like watching Fitch fight. Fitch would have DRAGGED Anderson Silva down and not shot on him, Fitch then would have held him against the fence throwing a punch every minute and getting stood up throughout the process. 
You are smart enough to see the obvious differences and im smart enough to realize that you are just hating thus ignoring logic. Iv been there before so its easy to rezognize. :thumb02:


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Man i'm gonig to end this shit right here. All you crazy sonnen fans can hate on me but I gonna say it. After hitting silva like 200 times, you can clearly see Sonnen's hands are softer than a bounty roll. Silva even dropped his hands after the suppose knockdown and allowed sonnen to hit him a few times and it did nothing. Silva can cause more damage with one punch than chael can cause with 10-20 punches. If Chael did not have pillow hands he would have been the champ plain and simple.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> Man i'm gonig to end this shit right here. All you crazy sonnen fans can hate on me but I gonna say it. After hitting silva like 200 times, you can clearly see Sonnen's hands are softer than a bounty roll. Silva even dropped his hands after the suppose knockdown and allowed sonnen to hit him a few times and it did nothing. Silva can cause more damage with one punch than chael can cause with 10-20 punches. If Chael did not have pillow hands he would have been the champ plain and simple.


yeah but hes black so you cant see damage unless its nearly KO damage like suga vs machida, marquardt miller and a little bit of okamis face had some bad marks on it


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> yeah but hes black so you cant see damage unless its nearly KO damage like suga vs machida, marquardt miller and a little bit of okamis face had some bad marks on it


I am no doctor but there is barley any signs of him being damage at all. You would think after getting hit the amount of time he did his face would be a little more swollen. If i saw silva after ufc 117 i would assume he had allergy and was not in a fight. As for evans his lips were damage during that machida fight.


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## tigerblood (Mar 20, 2011)

UFC_OWNS said:


> yeah but hes black so you cant see damage unless its nearly KO damage like suga vs machida, marquardt miller and a little bit of okamis face had some bad marks on it


So your saying if Hector Lombard hit Anderson Silva in the face 200 times he'd look the same as he did after fighting Sonnen?


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

tigerblood said:


> So your saying if Hector Lombard hit Anderson Silva in the face 200 times he'd look the same as he did after fighting Sonnen?


No hector would put silva to sleep at some point, he would require plastic surgery if he were to get hit 200 times by hector. Its unlikely that hector will touch him/ beat him but if he were to get hit 200 times by him it would be bad.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> I am no doctor but there is barley any signs of him being damage at all. You would think after getting hit the amount of time he did his face would be a little more swollen. If i saw silva after ufc 117 i would assume he had allergy and was not in a fight. As for evans his lips were damage during that machida fight.


nah silvas jaw and temple would be bruised and he would have headaches and damaged eardrums and a slightly damaged eyesocket, nothing significant but it would make for a really bad night when you got home and you would be exhausted.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> nah silvas jaw and temple would be bruised and he would have headaches and damaged eardrums and a slightly damaged eyesocket, nothing significant but it would make for a really bad night when you got home and you would be exhausted.


Lol ufc own you know this sonnen vs silva debate will never end unless they fight again. There is 3 times i know that is true from watching mma.

1. SIlva will beat sonnen in a rematch
2. Jon Fitch fights always go the distance
3. If any of us were to fight Kenny florian and the hype around it was huge, florian would lose that match up because he will choke like always.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> Lol ufc own you know this sonnen vs silva debate will never end unless they fight again. There is 3 times i know that is true from watching mma.
> 
> 1. SIlva will beat sonnen in a rematch
> 2. Jon Fitch fights always go the distance
> 3. If any of us were to fight Kenny florian and the hype around it was huge, florian would lose that match up because he will choke like always.


well 1. wont even happen because okami is gonna grind on silva for 5 rounds for a decision win and then sonne will beat okami late this year and the world will explode


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

People act like Sonnen hit Silva 289 times in the face. Most of his shots were Body shots. Silva went in with a bruised rib and walked out with a broken rib. So Chael must not punch that weak huh


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> People act like Sonnen hit Silva 289 times in the face. Most of his shots were Body shots. Silva went in with a bruised rib and walked out with a broken rib. So Chael must not punch that weak huh


Probably from rolling around with chael on the ground than a punch. Chael probably landed on him or something. It happen in the first round. But it adds to the legend of silva, broken ribs and still won the damn fight.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> You must be an Anderson Silva fan. Yes it does tend to suck watching a fighter you like getting punched repeatedly by a fighter you dont like. Btw, it was nothing like watching Fitch fight. Fitch would have DRAGGED Anderson Silva down and not shot on him, Fitch then would have held him against the fence throwing a punch every minute and getting stood up throughout the process.
> You are smart enough to see the obvious differences and im smart enough to realize that you are just hating thus ignoring logic. Iv been there before so its easy to rezognize. :thumb02:


Not a Silva fan per say but a hater of one dimensional wrestlers whos only hope to win a fight is to lay on opponents and get a UD. Fitch and Sonnen fit this category ans do a worryingly large amount of the up and coming fighters do.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

pipe said:


> Not a Silva fan per say but a hater of one dimensional wrestlers whos only hope to win a fight is to lay on opponents and get a UD. Fitch and Sonnen fit this category ans do a worryingly large amount of the up and coming fighters do.


if british fighters were doing the same (they cant there british ask dan hardy about wrestling) you would have no problems, either learn to sprawl and brawl like chuck or learn jacare jiu jitsu, i dont care when i let someone take me down in rolling because then i just work for a sweep or a sub and it happens. theres always k-1 for people who cant sprawl


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> if british fighters were doing the same (they cant there british ask dan hardy about wrestling) you would have no problems, either learn to sprawl and brawl like chuck or learn jacare jiu jitsu, i dont care when i let someone take me down in rolling because then i just work for a sweep or a sub and it happens. theres always k-1 for people who cant sprawl


Chael did not take silva down in round 4/5 silva was stopping everything. Even in round one, it was silva taking down chael just chael transaction nicely.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> Chael did not take silva down in round 4/5 silva was stopping everything. Even in round one, it was silva taking down chael just chael transaction nicely.


i... wasnt talking about that but ill bite anyways, against popular beliefs silva doesnt just go down like dan hardy would he has good tdd, BUT!!! when he faces great wrestlers(sonnen,hendo,newton) he cant sprawl them that well, and his bottom game isnt good enough to sweep or submit anyone not damaged(sonnen had the cut and got punched freeing up the arm i saw it before it happened) but weirdly enough chael did get a sweep on silva from the bottom which is ironic since silva is the bjj guy and sonnen the wrestler.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> i... wasnt talking about that but ill bite anyways, against popular beliefs silva doesnt just go down like dan hardy would he has good tdd, BUT!!! when he faces great wrestlers(sonnen,hendo,newton) he cant sprawl them that well, and his bottom game isnt good enough to sweep or submit anyone not damaged(sonnen had the cut and got punched freeing up the arm i saw it before it happened) but weirdly enough chael did get a sweep on silva from the bottom which is ironic since silva is the bjj guy and sonnen the wrestler.


Can we end this debate and jump to the conclusion that if silva beats okami, he will murder chael in a rematch?


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## tigerblood (Mar 20, 2011)

marcthegame said:


> No hector would put silva to sleep at some point, he would require plastic surgery if he were to get hit 200 times by hector. Its unlikely that hector will touch him/ beat him but if he were to get hit 200 times by him it would be bad.


So i guess your saying Sonnens punches felt like 200 soft pillows hitting his face. Which is correct.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

tigerblood said:


> So i guess your saying Sonnens punches felt like 200 soft pillows hitting his face. Which is correct.


Yes that is the only explanation i got to y silva would just lay there and take those shots. We seen the fight he was just chilling there taking it from sonnen. Unless silva is crazy and likes being hit those shots must have felt like a fly when it lands on ur face.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> Can we end this debate and jump to the conclusion that if silva beats okami, he will murder chael in a rematch?


we will have to agree to disagree, but boy if im right you owe me a big big i was wrong you were right all along speech:thumb02:


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> we will have to agree to disagree, but boy if im right you owe me a big big i was wrong you were right all along speech:thumb02:


We'll see 12 am Aug 28....I'll be here. That is either gonig to be the post of shame for me, or the biggest anderson silva celebration this forum has seen. Remember i love fedor, but if silva loses to okami that would be the most shocking thing to ever happen to me as a mma fan. Hell fedor 3 loses in a row would not add up to how shock i would be if silva loses to okami.


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## tigerblood (Mar 20, 2011)

Sonnen beats Silva or Okami in a rematch.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

y'all are so full of shit


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

tigerblood said:


> Sonnen beats Silva or Okami in a rematch.


lol u lost ur damn mind, chael sonnen has a better chance at passing a lie detector test while talking smack about everything in mma than he does beating silva in a rematch.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

oldfan said:


> y'all are so full of shit


praise oldfan, okami gonna get his title boy and then immediately lose it to sonnen


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

oldfan said:


> y'all are so full of shit


lol oldfan these picture don't mean anything, for all we know in the second one silva was moving his head to take the blow. And for the third one he slips while trying to do a Capoeira move that counters a punch.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

marcthegame said:


> lol oldfan these picture don't mean anything, for all we know in the second one silva was moving his head to take the blow. And for the third one he slips while trying to do a Capoeira move that counters a punch.


Lmao thats pretty funny.

Let me try

Chael Sonnen got Bored and Tired beating up Anderson Silva for 23 minutes (As we know he doesnt want to do anything for 25min but instead 3minutes and move on) so he decided to use Silva as a pillow and take a nap. What the ref took as a tap was actually Chael fluffing his pillow Anderson, so it would be nice and cool when he naps. :sarcastic11:

:thumb02:


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> lol oldfan these picture don't mean anything, *for all we know* in the second one silva was moving his head to take the blow. And for the third one he slips while trying to do a Capoeira move that counters a punch.



the bold part explains exactly why there are 14 pages in this silly thread.

y'all carry on and continue explaining it to me:thumb02:


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Lmao thats pretty funny.
> 
> Let me try
> 
> ...


lol, but u got it wrong, Silva being the man that he is wanted to test himself. To see if he was really that damn good. He decided to continue from the Maia fight and work on his pain tolerance. Sohe decided he was not going to fight for 23 mins. He allowed chael to beat him up, the purpose of silva quest was if chael could beat him up within 23 mins he would let him win. After 23 mins however chael failed and silva said **** it. I'll hit him with an elbow and choke him out. Which he did.

After the fight u see the black belt by the Nog brothers etc. Which should he completed his quest.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

oldfan said:


> the bold part explains exactly why there are 14 pages in this silly thread.
> 
> y'all carry on and continue explaining it to me:thumb02:


i can explain it to you but my explanation would cause sonnen's fans to explode. Which in return will extend this thread to another 14 pages. So in the goodness of my heart i'll try to end this thread before it hits 20 pages. 

The bottom line is silva won end of story, don't matter about what chael did he lost.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

marcthegame said:


> lol, but u got it wrong, Silva being the man that he is wanted to test himself. To see if he was really that damn good. He decided to continue from the Maia fight and work on his pain tolerance. Sohe decided he was not going to fight for 23 mins. He allowed chael to beat him up, the purpose of silva quest was if chael could beat him up within 23 mins he would let him win. After 23 mins however chael failed and silva said **** it. I'll hit him with an elbow and choke him out. Which he did.
> 
> After the fight u see the black belt by the Nog brothers etc. Which should he completed his quest.


But the flaw in this scenario is that Anderson Silva was throwing punches whenever Chael gave him a chance. For someone that decided to lay down for 23minutes and not fight, he sure did a shit load of fighting. 
Clever Scale
6/10 :thumbsdown:

The :winner01: goes to my post i believe

But il take you out on a night of :drink01: and all of the drinks will be on me. How does that sound? :happy03::thumb04:


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> But the flaw in this scenario is that Anderson Silva was throwing punches whenever Chael gave him a chance. For someone that decided to lay down for 23minutes and not fight, he sure did a shit load of fighting.
> Clever Scale
> 6/10 :thumbsdown:
> 
> ...


That sounds good, i might take some time off from these forums and go on a little quest of my own. I might find bobbyc and we shall return aug 28 together and throw the biggest blackhouse/silva celebration post this forum has seen if silva wins. If he loses i'll buy the beer and you can beat the shit out of bobby.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> That sounds good, i might take some time off from these forums and go on a little quest of my own. I might find bobbyc and we shall return aug 28 together and throw the biggest blackhouse/silva celebration post this forum has seen if silva wins. If he loses i'll buy the beer and you can beat the shit out of bobby.


Damnit I repped the wrong post. I'll get back to this one someday:laugh:


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

marcthegame said:


> That sounds good, i might take some time off from these forums and go on a little quest of my own. I might find bobbyc and we shall return aug 28 together and throw the biggest blackhouse/silva celebration post this forum has seen if silva wins. If he loses i'll buy the beer and you can beat the shit out of bobby.


Lmfao

The last portion caught me so off guard that it actually made me spray the water out of my mouth. Lol thx.. now i have to clean up.

You know, quests are good for the soul. I want you to leave on your quest and return a month later with a full blown beard that somehow looks 5 years old and you also must carry a wooden staff. You can be my 










Rafiki

I would bow to you.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

oldfan said:


> Damnit I repped the wrong post. I'll get back to this one someday:laugh:


lol don't tell me you got beef with bobby to? You gotta use your heading finding bobby would be easier than finding crack in the ghetto. Just post some machida news he will be here. He always is, i have never seen a post where it had the word lhw,machida,lyoto, without seeing that bad boy log on the left.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> lol don't tell me you got beef with bobby to? You gotta use your heading finding bobby would be easier than finding crack in the ghetto. Just post some machida news he will be here. He always is, i have never seen a post where it had the word lhw,machida,lyoto, without seeing that bad boy log on the left.


Don't get me wrong,... I love bobby. 

Of course, I love my younger brother too. Had some great times kicking his ass...:thumb02:


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

This thread is pretty dumb,
Anyone with half a brain cell knows that Chael wasn't trowing hard punches because only intended for the fight not being stood up and to not gas himself out.
Any further logics beyond that is just imagination.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

AmdM said:


> This thread is pretty dumb,
> Anyone with half a brain cell knows that Chael wasn't trowing hard punches because only intended for the fight not being stood up and to not gas himself out.
> Any further logics beyond that is just imagination.



Agreed.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

the first gif shows one of the two or three hard punches he threw. the second... i respect knees to the legs and body and they have a place in combat but cmon. thats not any proof that he's trying to finish the fight, and they aren't very risky in terms of losing position for a strong wrestler.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Khov, i guess you haven't watched that fight for a while, hmm?


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Hex-I never said he was trying to finish.



AmdM said:


> Khov, i guess you haven't watched that fight for a while, hmm?


I have. Silva got hit in some very creative, painful ways.


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

He hit Anderson cleanly on the jaw twice in that fight and Anderson stood in front of him wanting more. Anyone who says Anderson was tested or rocked clearly wasn't watching the same fight.


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