# Smartest and Dumbest Fighters in the UFC



## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

Hey guys, i wanted your opinions on who do you think are the smartest fighters in the UFC, by smart i mean fighting smart, always having a good gameplan and being able to execute it, playing his opponent's weakness, not getting hot headed, that kind of stuff.

The dumbest fighters would be the opposite.

Thanks in advance .


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Smartest: Randy
Dumbest: Melvin Guillard(no fuckin contest)


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## pliff (Oct 5, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> Smartest: Randy
> Dumbest: Melvin Guillard(no fuckin contest)



perfectly said...


Andy wang comes to mind too as the worst gameplan


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Jake O'brien is a pretty smart fighter he does what he has to.

Tim Sylvia is usually very smart in fact until he stood up a little to early in the Nogueira fight he was doing a great job.

On the dumb side I would put 

Gabe Gonzaga since he thinks he's a stand up fighter now when his skills are on the ground

and 

Heath Herring for numerous reasons the biggest being he complains that his opponents take him to the ground?


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Smartest HAS to go to A.Silva fo rthe sheer fact that he's smart enough to pick apart osmeone elses game plan and beat them at it. It seems liek he lets the other person take the fight where they want it and hten beats them at hteir own game


Dumbest goes to Andy Wang


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## burton_o6 (Oct 30, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> Smartest: Randy
> Dumbest: Melvin Guillard(no fuckin contest)


This is exactly what i was thinking.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> *Smartest HAS to go to A.Silva fo rthe sheer fact that he's smart enough to pick apart osmeone elses game plan and beat them at it. It seems liek he lets the other person take the fight where they want it and hten beats them at hteir own game*
> 
> 
> Dumbest goes to Andy Wang


i would disagree with that...he's done some things that I wouldn't consider smart at all.

the example that comes to mind is the Lutter fight....throwing a flying knee to guy whose basically only chance to win is to take you down (not to say that he would have)....very stupid IMO


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## holden636 (Oct 1, 2007)

Smartest (intelligence):
Rashad Evans (psychology degree from Michigan St.)
Kenny Florian (communications degree from Boston College)

Dumbest (lack of intelligence):
Nate Diaz (this kid is borderline retarded)


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

holden636 said:


> Smartest (intelligence):
> Rashad Evans (psychology degree from Michigan St.)
> Kenny Florian (communications degree from Boston College)
> 
> ...


agreed...but don't forget his brother..he's one stupid MFer


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> i would disagree with that...he's done some things that I wouldn't consider smart at all.
> 
> the example that comes to mind is the Lutter fight....throwing a flying knee to guy whose basically only chance to win is to take you down (not to say that he would have)....very stupid IMO


 That would only be dumb if you couldn't compete in that aspect of the game.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

jasvll said:


> That would only be dumb if you couldn't compete in that aspect of the game.


i understand it's his style to open up like that. and i understand he has mad ground skills of his own. But Lutter has very poor standup and would have been finished pretty easily from their most likely.

in fact, silva got himself into some trouble with that maneuver


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

holden636 said:


> Smartest (intelligence):
> Rashad Evans (psychology degree from Michigan St.)
> Kenny Florian (communications degree from Boston College)
> 
> ...


You missed a bunch of fighters that have degrees, and how is a degree in Psychology and Communications impressive? Those are pretty much the most common majors other than "business" degrees.


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## AmRiT (Apr 23, 2007)

Smartest: Machida

Dumbest: Wang


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## bigdog89 (Oct 17, 2007)

Smartest-Couture/Anderson
Dumbest-Liddell had a fight he should have won and lost because he didnt adapt.plus he cant count.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

bigdog89 said:


> Smartest-Couture/Anderson
> Dumbest-Liddell had a fight he should have won and lost because he didnt adapt.*plus he cant count*.


lol he's an accounting major....i think he can count lol


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## bigdog89 (Oct 17, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> lol he's an accounting major....i think he can count lol


No man im dead serious i read an interview somewhere where it talked about how he couldnt count..ill try and find it again.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> lol he's an accounting major....i think he can count lol


Beat me to it.

Damn, that was gonna be a good one, too. :thumb02:


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## Shoguns_Nuts (Oct 11, 2007)

Smartest fighter in the UFC=Chris Leben.

The guy will never have to worry about a career, he is to entertaining to let go.

The dumbest fighter in the UFC in my opinion is:


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## dvddanny (Feb 4, 2007)

holden636 said:


> Smartest (intelligence):
> Rashad Evans (psychology degree from Michigan St.)
> Kenny Florian (communications degree from Boston College)
> 
> ...


Isn't Joe lauzon a Computer engineer? If so then thats a much harder major then psychology or communications.

As for fighting smarts i say Randy with second being Tim, Dumbest fighter has to be Melvin or Wang, do doubt in my mind. They also get the biggest b*tch award as well, for crying like a little girls after their fights (Melvin vs Stevenson, and pretty much anytime Wang says he's a warrior and loses).


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## imrik32 (Dec 31, 2006)

I'd say Couture and Machida for smartest..

Leben and Ken Shamrock for dumbest


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## capt_america (Apr 16, 2007)

imrik32 said:


> I'd say Couture and Machida for smartest..
> 
> Leben and Ken Shamrock for dumbest


Same choices here :thumb02:


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

randy is the smartest no contest 

all of the dumbest answers can be argued


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

Smartest: Machida, Nogueira, Randy, GSP, Hughes(pre-GSP)

Dumb: Wandy, Justin Eilers, Guillard, Eddie Sanchez, yeah theres far too many.


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## G-S-P (Sep 1, 2007)

So many guys to choose from, but to be brief...


Smartest: Randy Couture, Rich Franklin, Lyoto Machida

Dumbest: Nick Diaz, Nate Diaz, Charles Bennett, Jens Pulver


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## JT42 (Dec 31, 2006)

Smartest Gameplan-wise?: Couture and then Machida
Smartest Business-wise?: Lesnar for getting a contract that rivals the guys who built the UFC


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

I don't get how Couture is so smart....he clinches with people....hes a greco-roman wrestler...it's not exactly a rocket science ******* gameplan lol.


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## ID06 (Dec 31, 2006)

G-S-P said:


> So many guys to choose from, but to be brief...
> 
> 
> Smartest: Randy Couture, Rich Franklin, Lyoto Machida
> ...


How is Pulver a dumb fighter?


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## leviticus (May 27, 2007)

holden636 said:


> Smartest (intelligence):
> Rashad Evans (psychology degree from Michigan St.)
> Kenny Florian (communications degree from Boston College)
> 
> ...


Using that criteria, Jeff Monson (when he was in the UFC) is the most intelligent fighter due to having a Masters in Psychology. I'm on board with the diaz brothers though.


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## Javelin (Dec 28, 2007)

Smartest fighter in the ring: GSP 

Dumbest: Eddie Sanchez (for more info: his fight vs crocop, a non-mma fan tuning in to this fight would think he was some bum they dragged off the street 5 min before the fight)


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## MarijuanaSmoker (Jan 2, 2008)

dvddanny said:


> Isn't Joe lauzon a Computer engineer? If so then thats a much harder major then psychology or communications.
> 
> As for fighting smarts i say Randy with second being Tim, Dumbest fighter has to be Melvin or Wang, do doubt in my mind. They also get the biggest b*tch award as well, for crying like a little girls after their fights (Melvin vs Stevenson, and pretty much anytime Wang says he's a warrior and loses).


I know nothing about psychology or communications, but I can easily tell you that computer engineering is easy


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## SuzukS (Nov 11, 2006)

Smartest would be Lyoto Machida, Randy Couture, Rich Franklin, Kenny Florian and Anderson Silva.

Dumbest has to go to Melvin Guillard..


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## ID06 (Dec 31, 2006)

How is Guillard the dumbest? Maybe the most cocky, maybe one of the worst ground games in the UFC but he trys to keep it standing most of the time, he just loses on the ground. He usually isn't the one to put it there anyway.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Iron Daisy06 said:


> How is Guillard the dumbest? Maybe the most cocky, maybe one of the worst ground games in the UFC but he trys to keep it standing most of the time, he just loses on the ground. He usually isn't the one to put it there anyway.


Testing positive for COCAINE in the biggest fight of your career then getting submitted in 30 seconds? Cocaine takes like 2-3 days to get out of your body


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## ID06 (Dec 31, 2006)

This thread is about the best gameplans, not the dumbest people outside the octagon


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## AceFranklin88 (Apr 21, 2007)

leviticus said:


> Using that criteria, Jeff Monson (when he was in the UFC) is the most intelligent fighter due to having a Masters in Psychology. I'm on board with the diaz brothers though.


Doesn't Franklin have a masters in education though...? :dunno:


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> Testing positive for COCAINE in the biggest fight of your career then getting submitted in 30 seconds? Cocaine takes like 2-3 days to get out of your body


yep...pretty much it


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

terry martin i think is a psychology major


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Iron Daisy06 said:


> This thread is about the best gameplans, not the dumbest people outside the octagon


No it is not. He just said an example of a "smart" fighter would be one who always uses a good game plan, aka Randy Couture(my pick).


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## ID06 (Dec 31, 2006)

"By smart, I mean fighting smart"

Seems like he wants the smartest inside the cage.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Smartest?: Probably Randy.

Dumbest?: Crocota.. that guy is borderline retarded.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Iron Daisy06 said:


> "By smart, I mean fighting smart"
> 
> Seems like he wants the smartest inside the cage.


So why aren't you quoting the people who picked smart fighers based on their degrees?


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## ID06 (Dec 31, 2006)

I wasn't quoting anyone in my original post, just asking how Guillard had the worst game plan, I quoted you because you were the first to debate my point.


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## GodlyMoose (May 20, 2007)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Datsik yet.


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

GodlyMoose said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned Datsik yet.


Good thing its people in the UFC only, because theres just way too many people outside of the UFC.

Sam Morgan: Probably the dumbest fighter I've ever seen.

Hiromitsu Kanehara: Blocking knees with your face isn't the best plan.

Josh Thompson: That guy is borderline retarded.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Chileandude said:


> Hey guys, i wanted your opinions on who do you think are the smartest fighters in the UFC, by smart i mean fighting smart, always having a good gameplan and being able to execute it, playing his opponent's weakness, not getting hot headed, that kind of stuff.
> 
> The dumbest fighters would be the opposite.


By your definition of smart, there are a few guys that come to mind, so I'll throw out my biggest one in MMA, in the UFC and one people think the opposite of:

Smartest fighter in MMA: KID Yamamoto _Yeah, I know I was the only one who thinks this, but here's my reasoning: Apart from his charisma and attitude, which has made him a cornerstone in the Japanese business, he's developed his skill set to be perfectly suited for the kind of fighting that he does. He's explosive and aggressive, and while he's really a great wrestler, he's been smart enough to develop his submission game and put power in his hands that sufficient to make him competitive in kickboxing. He came in more or less one dimensional and cultivated his skills. We've seen him evolve, and remain dominant._

Smartest fighter in the UFC: BJ Penn _He's adapted to the game better than anybody, he knows that in order to win he has to have the best transition game around and he does. His defeats were either close decisions or fights that he was winning for a while thanks to a superior gameplan. No one has learned to strike as quickly as he did, and no one has brought the rubber guard to MMA as effectively as he has. (and I count Shinya Aoki in that, as Aoki really only has one move out of the rubber guard)_

Smartest fighter people think is an idiot: Tim Sylvia _Tim gets alot of flak (even on this forum) for being a big dumb ogre, and while that's how he comes across when he's talking, it's not true in the cage. Sylvia learns from his mistakes and he's worked very hard to shore up the elements of his game that aren't very good. While he's certainly not the best fighter, nor the most exciting, he does what he needs to do to win._

Dumbest fighter in MMA: Gabe Ruediger _Apart from his horrible, amateurish weigh cut and pathetic display of waterworks afterwards, Gabe's just generally a dumb fighter. When he was fighting for the WEC he took a fight with Hermes Franca, who, while not as highly regarded at the time, outranks Ruediger in BJJ and is much better standing up than the oafish Cookie monster we saw on TUF 3. Despite getting knocked out by Franca in 36 seconds, the UFC brought him in to fight Melvin Guillard at UFC 63. Ruediger again failed to really have a plan to exploit Guillard's major serious weakspot (his submission game) and decided that his standup would be adequate to handle a fighter that hits as hard as Melvin. Dumb move. The rest of his career is similar._

Dumbest fight in the UFC: Brock Lesnar _I'm not saying this to rag on the guy just because he's a wrestler, but from a realistic point of view, why would you go into a fight with Frank Mir with no serious BJJ training? On top of that, if you knew that Mir's bread and butter is the ground game, why would you follow him there? It seemed to me (watching the prefight and Lesnar's regimen) that he would have been much more suited to sprawl and brawl with Mir, who's standup is not that great, then to go to the ground against a guy who's snapped an opponent's arm in half there. It may only be one display of idiocy in the Octagon, but I feel that it warrants some credit, as he did it on such a large stage, with so much credit for having done nothing else._

Dumbest fighter everyone thinks is smart: Karo Parisyan _Despite a clear inability to establish a winning gameplan (he's only finished two UFC fights, and one worthwhile opponent), Karo has not even really tried to develop his game beyond his Judo. It may sound harsh to say that the guy doesn't seem to train anything else, but that's the absolute truth. He has great throws, a decent groundnpound and good submissions, but he has not seemed to develop any other skills. I think Karo's fun to watch, but I think it's fairly obvious that he's not a very smart fighter._

Smart honorable mentions: Randy Couture (Obviously, one of the smartest guys around and well respected for his intelligence, both as a commentator and a fighter) and Frank Mir (also respected as a commentator, and well noted for his ability to beat opponents where they are weak, a definite display of intelligence)

Dumb honorable mentions: Nick Diaz (in part because he throws his gameplans out the window as soon as he steps into a cage and resorts immediately back to his primal instinct, even in the fights that he wins, and in part because he cannot hold down a contract) and Takanori Gomi (the only reason why he lost to Diaz is because he wasn't thinking that his opponent clearly has a better submission game, and that is a mistake that he never seems to pick up from, so I'll be honest when I say that there's a part of me that wants to put him ahead of Karo, but he at least manages to explode on opponents and finish them)


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> i would disagree with that...he's done some things that I wouldn't consider smart at all.
> 
> the example that comes to mind is the Lutter fight....throwing a flying knee to guy whose basically only chance to win is to take you down (not to say that he would have)....very stupid IMO


What are you talking about, go watch anderson's fight with newton, that strike is completely set up. He knew lutter was going to shoot and he threw the flying knee to try and knock him out.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> i would disagree with that...he's done some things that I wouldn't consider smart at all.
> 
> the example that comes to mind is the Lutter fight....throwing a flying knee to guy whose basically only chance to win is to take you down (not to say that he would have)....very stupid IMO


Why is that stupid exactly? Silva has accomplished just as much on the ground as Lutter. I would say a black belt from the Nogueira brothers means more than the one Lutter got.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

IronMan said:


> By your definition of smart, there are a few guys that come to mind, so I'll throw out my biggest one in MMA, in the UFC and one people think the opposite of:
> 
> Smartest fighter in MMA: KID Yamamoto _Yeah, I know I was the only one who thinks this, but here's my reasoning: Apart from his charisma and attitude, which has made him a cornerstone in the Japanese business, he's developed his skill set to be perfectly suited for the kind of fighting that he does. He's explosive and aggressive, and while he's really a great wrestler, he's been smart enough to develop his submission game and put power in his hands that sufficient to make him competitive in kickboxing. He came in more or less one dimensional and cultivated his skills. We've seen him evolve, and remain dominant._
> 
> ...


Very well thought out post. Agree with your points, but you definitely should have mentioned Guillard in there some where. That guy is incredibly dumb.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Dumbest: Karo and Guillard 
Smartest: BJ and Silva


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

look where that strike got him....mounted with one of the best bjj guys in the division....he's awesome at bjj himself, but nonetheless, its a pretty close matchup when those two were rollling...so why not do your best to keep it standing? It's the safe win and the smart play.

don't get me wrong, I LOVE ANDERSON SILVA. but that move was not very smart IMO.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> look where that strike got him....mounted with one of the best bjj guys in the division....he's awesome at bjj himself, but nonetheless, its a pretty close matchup when those two were rollling...so why not do your best to keep it standing? It's the safe win and the smart play.
> 
> don't get me wrong, I LOVE ANDERSON SILVA. but that move was not very smart IMO.


Yeah that wasn't the greatest move to do. But i wouldn't call him a dumb fighter for it. How many other fighters made mistakes on more occasions that actually cost them the match?


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## ID06 (Dec 31, 2006)

Could someone please explain how Guillard is dumb?


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Iron Daisy06 said:


> Could someone please explain how Guillard is dumb?


cocaine has a pretty short 1/2 life.....and he tested +ve....meaning he used it just days b4 the fight....really really stupid


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## ID06 (Dec 31, 2006)

For like the 5th time, this thread isn't about that, it's about in-ring strategy. So please explain how Guillard is stupid inside the octagon.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Iron Daisy06 said:


> Could someone please explain how Guillard is dumb?


I am actually a fan of him because of his athletic ability and we both are from Louisiana. But this guy has been in MMA since he was a teenager and he still hasn't seriously trained BJJ. He still takes people down with no ability to defend sub attempts. He hasn't evolved at all. That is pretty dumb. If one thing is for sure, Louisiana produces great athletes, but they generally aren't known to be the next in line to win the nobel prize or anything.


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## pauly_j (Nov 28, 2006)

holden636 said:


> Smartest (intelligence):
> Rashad Evans (psychology degree from Michigan St.)
> Kenny Florian (communications degree from Boston College)
> 
> ...


Rich Franklin has 2 degrees and used to be a teacher. That's pretty smart.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Iron Daisy06 said:


> For like the 5th time, this thread isn't about that, it's about in-ring strategy. So please explain how Guillard is stupid inside the octagon.


actually guillard isn't in the UFC anymore...so he shouldn't have had been mentioned


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## bigdog89 (Oct 17, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> actually guillard isn't in the UFC anymore...so he shouldn't have had been mentioned


Hes under their umbrella basically as once he gets a couple wins poof hell be back.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Very well thought out post. Agree with your points, but you definitely should have mentioned Guillard in there some where. That guy is incredibly dumb.


I thought about putting Guillard in there, but I've actually met the guy, and he doesn't come off as that dumb (or arrogant, for that matter), though I agree that when he loses, it's purely on the basis of making a stupid mistake.

That said, I think that he's actually shown alot of improvement since his TUF days while many of the other guys I mentioned have shown none.

That's my defense of Guillard, but he'd be one of a half dozen more I would have mentioned in a top ten list.


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## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

IronMan said:


> I thought about putting Guillard in there, but I've actually met the guy, and he doesn't come off as that dumb (or arrogant, for that matter), though I agree that when he loses, it's purely on the basis of making a stupid mistake.
> 
> That said, I think that he's actually shown alot of improvement since his TUF days while many of the other guys I mentioned have shown none.
> 
> That's my defense of Guillard, but he'd be one of a half dozen more I would have mentioned in a top ten list.



That is true. I guess. I kind of liken him to Alistair Overeem. Not in their fighting style or anything. Just the way their fights happen. One will be winning pretty clearly and then make one dumb mistake and not be able to overcome it.


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

Smartest: Randy Couture and Fedor Emelianenko

Dumbist: melvin guillard


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

Iron Daisy06 said:


> Could someone please explain how Guillard is dumb?


He was born with a great deal of natural talent, had plenty of opportunity to make a real name for himself (and I don’t mean by being a poser thug and loud mouthed drug user).

Instead he plays up the inner city street thug but in truth he’s a collage graduate (Graduated from Colby College in Kansas with a degree in Criminal Law) and his father is a Baptist minister.

He refuses to display any class or respect for his opponents; he intentionally bad mouths them and falsely accuses them of taking drugs (when he’s the one using). He even makes threats to people OUTSIDE the cage.

He fails to properly train BJJ and insists of standing and “swinging for the fence” and ends up eating straight punches (because while he’s wide open preparing to land his KO shot he's a big stationary target begging to get punched).

If he did these things once or twice he could be forgiven for being young and undisciplined but Melvin refuses to learn from his mistakes……..STUPID!


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## ID06 (Dec 31, 2006)

I don't think he has a dumb game plan, he didn't try to take down Clementi or do anything like that, he just lacks expierience and talent.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> That is true. I guess. I kind of liken him to Alistair Overeem. Not in their fighting style or anything. Just the way their fights happen. One will be winning pretty clearly and then make one dumb mistake and not be able to overcome it.


Yeah, but Overeem does get back up and get back to striking sometimes, and I tend to think that sometimes Alistair just gets thrown in bad matchups, where as Guillard gets put in situations he should be able to avoid by paying attention.

The guillotine that Joe Stevenson caught him in was the worst for me, because he should have known to stay standing. That was not a fight he wanted on the ground and a smart fighter would have known that. Instead, he jumped right into that choke.

The same goes for Clementi, but Clementi really held him there and capitalized on an unfortunate circumstance.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

IronMan said:


> Yeah, but Overeem does get back up and get back to striking sometimes, and I tend to think that sometimes Alistair just gets thrown in bad matchups, where as Guillard gets put in situations he should be able to avoid by paying attention.
> 
> The guillotine that Joe Stevenson caught him in was the worst for me, because he should have known to stay standing. That was not a fight he wanted on the ground and a smart fighter would have known that. Instead, he jumped right into that choke.
> 
> The same goes for Clementi, but Clementi really held him there and capitalized on an unfortunate circumstance.


Melvin didn't bring the fight to the ground, he was rocked by Joe with a punch, then taken down with a single/double. He kicked Joe off and tried to get up, but Joe latched the guillotine on and pulled guard. There was really nothing Melvin could have done, except tucking his chin before Joe could get an arm under it. :dunno:


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Fedor>all said:


> Melvin didn't bring the fight to the ground, he was rocked by Joe with a punch, then taken down with a single/double. He kicked Joe off and tried to get up, but Joe latched the guillotine on and pulled guard. There was really nothing Melvin could have done, except tucking his chin before Joe could get an arm under it. :dunno:


That's not how I remember it. I know that he got rocked and went to his knees, but I also remember him diving for a double leg. I'll have to watch it again. It's been a while, and all I really remember is yelling at the guy for not looking for that grip on the guillotine, but Joe's such a strong motherf*cker, and a much better grappler, so I doubt it would have mattered.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

ok...so joe rocked him, then was on top of melvin....melvin used a double leg motion to try and get back to his feet, but joe had grabbed the neck and had it sunk it deep.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

IronMan said:


> That's not how I remember it. I know that he got rocked and went to his knees, but I also remember him diving for a double leg. I'll have to watch it again. It's been a while, and all I really remember is yelling at the guy for not looking for that grip on the guillotine, but Joe's such a strong motherf*cker, and a much better grappler, so I doubt it would have mattered.


You should definitely refresh your memory, because there wasn't a whole lot Melvin could have done about that guillotine.



Aaronyman said:


> ok...so joe rocked him, then was on top of melvin....melvin used a double leg motion to try and get back to his feet, but joe had grabbed the neck and had it sunk it deep.


It didn't really look to me like he was trying to go for a double leg. As soon as Melvin kicked Joe off, he tried getting up, but Joe automatically went for his head/neck, and pulled guard as Melvin grabbed Joe's right leg. I didn't see any offensive effort for Melvin, I saw him just grabbing for what he could in desperation during the guillotine. :dunno:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1n849_joe-stevenson-vs-melvin-guillard_extreme


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> It didn't really look to me like he was trying to go for a double leg. As soon as Melvin kicked Joe off, he tried getting up, but Joe automatically went for his head/neck, and pulled guard as Melvin grabbed Joe's right leg. I didn't see any offensive effort for Melvin, I saw him just grabbing for what he could in desperation during the guillotine. :dunno:
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1n849_joe-stevenson-vs-melvin-guillard_extreme


yeah, well we don't really know what guillard is thinking at the time....you could be right, he may have just went into panic mode and did what was instinctive


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> yeah, well we don't really know what guillard is thinking at the time....you could be right, he may have just went into panic mode and did what was instinctive


I think Melvin's stupid, but I don't think he's stupid enough to purposely dive into a guillotine, especially one of an accomplished grappler like Joe Stevenson. Who knows, though this guy did do crack! :laugh:


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> I think Melvin's stupid, but I don't think he's stupid enough to purposely dive into a guillotine, especially one of an accomplished grappler like Joe Stevenson. Who knows, though this guy did do crack! :laugh:


lol was it crack cocaine...?

cocaine is really bad for you....crack cocaine is REALLY REALLY bad for you...what a dumbshit


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> lol was it crack cocaine...?
> 
> cocaine is really bad for you....crack cocaine is REALLY REALLY bad for you...what a dumbshit


My bad, I think it was just cocaine. Either way, retarded :thumbsdown:


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> My bad, I think it was just cocaine. Either way, retarded :thumbsdown:


actually i dunno if there's a way to tell...the chemical groups on crack cocaine are just modified very slightly....and you smoke it (which is the fastest way of feeling the effects of a drug)...so if it's some kind of cocaine metabolite their testing for in these tests...there could very well be no way to know....


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> actually i dunno if there's a way to tell...the chemical groups on crack cocaine are just modified very slightly....and you smoke it (which is the fastest way of feeling the effects of a drug)...so if it's some kind of cocaine metabolite their testing for in these tests...there could very well be no way to know....


I'm completely clueless with regard to drugs and drug paraphernalia, I only smoke the herb. :laugh: 

I'd expect more discipline than that from a fighter though, being caught for something like that is just plain embarrassing. 

I was so happy when Clementi subbed Guillard, that fight was hilarious.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> I'm completely clueless with regard to drugs and drug paraphernalia, I only smoke the herb. :laugh:
> 
> I'd expect more discipline than that from a fighter though, being caught for something like that is just plain embarrassing.
> 
> I was so happy when Clementi subbed Guillard, that fight was hilarious.


yeah, that was a really humiliating moment for guillard to go out like that...especially w/ clementi's trash talk


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> yeah, that was a really humiliating moment for guillard to go out like that...especially w/ clementi's trash talk


Yeah, that was a great opening fight to UFC 79 though. Clementi's BJJ looked awesome!


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