# Rashad Evans- Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Black Belt?



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

:confused02:

Rashad got his black belt today under Rolls Gracie.
I've never seen Rashad do anything that even remotely resembles jiu-jitsu, what do you guys think about this?


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## Dan0 (Aug 22, 2008)

No sub-attempt in his MMA career ever.
Wow!
Just wow..

And Diego Sanchez doesn't have one yet?


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Fight career does not equal belt status. I doubt Rolles was considering his usage of BJJ in the octagon when it was awarded, he was considering the skills Rashad displayed in the dojo.

Also there is always the star factor to consider. I think sometimes a BJJ master of a particular star pupil in MMA might be inclined to advance them quickly not just because they are athletic and quick learners, but because handing them their black belt is a little like a brand on cattle. It shows the heritage and reflects well on the master who awarded it as the pupil rises to further successes.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Dan0 said:


> No sub-attempt in his MMA career ever.
> Wow!
> Just wow..
> 
> And Diego Sanchez doesn't have one yet?


Diego would probably have a black belt but he switched schools.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Meh, alot of belts in MMA are kinda "gifted" I think, like Hex said. I mean come on I remember Jon Fitch conveniently was awarded his right before the GSP fight, much to convenient if you ask me.


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## beardsleybob (Jan 3, 2010)

It's all honorary stuff more likely. A lot of celebrities get honorary degrees for something they've never studied.

Or else Rashads gona surprise Thiago tonight with some perfect BJJ??


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## EastonAssassin (Nov 5, 2009)

i don't think rolls gracie would just hand one out just for the hell of it. if he says rashad's a black belt bjj, i'll take his word for it. even though i'm hoping we see some of it tonight.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

It'd be hilarious if Rashad did some reckless shit and swept Thiago from guard or something, than passes into side mount and locks in a side triangle choke. :laugh:


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

I'll shit myself if Rashad hits a helicopter armbar. 




I'll shit myself if ANYONE hits a helicopter armbar TBH, I just want to see one lol.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Rashad Evans via flying scissor heelhook.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Rashad Evans via flying scissor heelhook.


Lol Lauzon tried.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Dan0 said:


> No sub-attempt in his MMA career ever.
> Wow!
> Just wow..
> 
> And Diego Sanchez doesn't have one yet?


Diego had one coming out of Greg Jacksons Camp, but when he left he went under the teaching of Xande and Saulo Ribeiro, he surrendered his black belt from Jacksons camp and started fresh under the Ribeiro's, he currently is Brown and has a Black in Gaidojutsu.....



JimmyJames said:


> Diego would probably have a black belt but he switched schools.


Had one surrendered it....


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## unclehulka13 (Nov 17, 2008)

coldcall420 said:


> Diego had one coming out of Greg Jacksons Camp, but when he left he went under the teaching of Xande and Saulo Ribeiro, he surrendered his black belt from Jacksons camp and started fresh under the Ribeiro's, he currently is Brown and has a Black in Gaidojutsu.....
> 
> 
> 
> Had one surrendered it....


Doesn't use it.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

unclehulka13 said:


> Doesn't use it.


 

The knock on Diego is his Striking and he has focused on that as well, this fight with BJ was a war but most of it was on the feet.....his brown belt wouldn't have mattered against BJ....it's BJ...


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## JiPi (Oct 3, 2009)

For a blackbelt he sure didn't use it tonight. How many times Thiago just gave his back when standing up after one of those takedowns and Rashad tried nothing?


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

oh Lord...a post scrutinizing the validity of Rashad's BJJ belt:laugh:


I love it :thumb02:


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## unclehulka13 (Nov 17, 2008)

Sekou said:


> oh Lord...a post scrutinizing the validity of Rashad's BJJ belt:laugh:
> 
> 
> I love it :thumb02:


Well would you rather us scrutinize his chin? That's pretty awful too.....

He won't have a chance against Page.


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## kujo45 (Apr 21, 2008)

As good as he looked in the first two rounds; he gave up some dominant positions with almost no contest. Albiet, Thiago is a black belt; but if Rashad was a 'black belt', he shouldn't be losing side control like that. No damage dealt, and zero attempts at any kind of submission. 

Credit to Thiago for being really good off his back. But Rashad should be able to utilize those positions better; as is, he's not taking full advantage of his superior wrestling abilities.


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## munkie (Sep 28, 2009)

For starters, masters don't just hand out blackbelts to brand a star pupil, especially a Gracie. Evans probably does have really good submission skills, but he would rather pound his opponent ratherthan slap on a rolling kneebar. Whoever said blackbelts are handed out to stars is an idiot.


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## js9234 (Apr 8, 2007)

:thumbsup: Agreed



munkie said:


> For starters, masters don't just hand out blackbelts to brand a star pupil, especially a Gracie. Evans probably does have really good submission skills, but he would rather pound his opponent ratherthan slap on a rolling kneebar. Whoever said blackbelts are handed out to stars is an idiot.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

i would say that he uses his BJJ for defensive purposes, and only offensive if he had too. Would you expect Chuck Liddell, who is now training exclusively with Eddie Bravo's school, to come out and try and start subbing people? Not really. He is going to use it as simply another weapon in his arsenal, centered around his striking game.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Dan0 said:


> No sub-attempt in his *MMA career* ever.
> Wow!
> Just wow..
> 
> And Diego Sanchez doesn't have one yet?


You mean UFC career. 



munkie said:


> For starters, masters don't just hand out blackbelts to brand a star pupil, especially a Gracie. Evans probably does have really good submission skills, but he would rather pound his opponent ratherthan slap on a rolling kneebar. *Whoever said blackbelts are handed out to stars is an idiot.*


I gave you an infraction for insulting other members not too long ago, please avoid this in the future as it's against the forum rules.

Other than that I somewhat agree with your post.


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## Mjr (Apr 22, 2007)

I certainly think there are many many better Black belts in the UFC than Rashad, his Jiu Jitsu has never impressed me, that being said he rarely calls upon it. But he let a few dominant positions slip today and failed to control Thiago on the ground.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

munkie said:


> For starters, masters don't just hand out blackbelts to brand a star pupil, especially a Gracie. Evans probably does have really good submission skills, but he would rather pound his opponent ratherthan slap on a rolling kneebar. *Whoever said blackbelts are handed out to stars is an idiot*.





js9234 said:


> :thumbsup: Agreed


 
I believe that was Joe Rogan's dumb ass...I love Joe cuz he knows his shit, but since he started rolling and has worked more and more on his Jitz there seems to be some bias developing towards those fighters, just saying, I love Jitz......but not like Rogan....


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

munkie said:


> For starters, masters don't just hand out blackbelts to brand a star pupil, especially a Gracie. Evans probably does have really good submission skills, but he would rather pound his opponent ratherthan slap on a rolling kneebar. Whoever said blackbelts are handed out to stars is an idiot.


:thumbsup:


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Had Rashad got it from some guy we've never heard of then i'd question the validity of his black-belt. I *highly* doubt any Gracie would give a BB to an undeserving person.

That being said if we ever see Rashad on his back we can see his stuff but i think the only time he was on his back is when Machida KO'd him.


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## gleaminx (Mar 5, 2007)

there's no way it's a legit blackbelt. you have to test for it and there's no effin way he's going to test for it and chance getting hurt prior to this fight. i call bs.


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## Inkdot (Jun 15, 2009)

I've never been even remotely concerned with belt colors, i think its nice but dosent say much about actual skill since the process of awarding belts is ultimately subjective.

Some slick BJJ guys and putting on submission clinics with 'only' brown or even purple belts. Some examples just from this card is 'Mr kimura from inverted triangle' who is brown belt and Joe Lauzon, while no guru, is only purple, I've seen him go for some pretty cool subs in the past...

It's not the color, it's the content that matters.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

i dont see getting a belt from a Gracie as ever gonna be gifted, this is their family legacy, i would think they put it above a little name plug just to give an undeserving fighter the belt.

Maybe the reason Rashad never uses his BJJ is because he has only one loss ever?? His GnP has been lethal and effective why stray from what you know and do best?? Maybe he just wanted the BJJ training to stop submissions and stop from getting controlled by BJJ guys and know what they are doing, i've never seen anybody come near to subbing him or giving him fits on the ground.....


i know but this is too logical and not as fun as a conspiracy theory


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

alizio said:


> i dont see getting a belt from a Gracie as ever gonna be gifted, this is their family legacy, i would think they put it above a little name plug just to give an undeserving fighter the belt.


Lots of people think Vitor was gifted because of his appeal early in his fight career. He's been a gracie black belt for like ten years, has he ever shown it outside of his dojo? I think your fallacy here is assuming that every master in the family values skill over all else, and is unswayable on that point...


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

munkie said:


> For starters, masters don't just hand out blackbelts to brand a star pupil, *especially a Gracie*. Evans probably does have really good submission skills, but he would rather pound his opponent ratherthan slap on a rolling kneebar. Whoever said blackbelts are handed out to stars is an idiot.


You say this like it implies some kind of honor or honesty, guess you don't know that the legacy of Gracie JJ is built entirely on lies, hell Gracie JJ isn't even based on JJ for F***s sake its based on Judo. The Gracies are the biggest story tellers and outright liars in the history of combat sports.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Toxic said:


> You say this like it implies some kind of honor or honesty, guess you don't know that the legacy of Gracie JJ is built entirely on lies, hell Gracie JJ isn't even based on JJ for F***s sake its based on Judo. The Gracies are the biggest story tellers and outright liars in the history of combat sports.


 
Toxic, I thought you had a Gracie Black Belt???:confused02: Did they take it back????


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## Inkdot (Jun 15, 2009)

Toxic said:


> You say this like it implies some kind of honor or honesty, guess you don't know that the legacy of Gracie JJ is built entirely on lies, hell Gracie JJ isn't even based on JJ for F***s sake its based on Judo. The Gracies are the biggest story tellers and outright liars in the history of combat sports.


I'm no expert on traditional martial arts, so correct me if I'm wrong, but they way I've heard it is that in the old days judo and JJ were pretty much the same thing. It's only relatively recently they 'branched out'.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

No, but if you actually do some reading on the history of the sport you find out that the Gracie's probably shouldn't be getting so much respect they actually have done alot of really shitty things, including practicing there JJ by jumping unwilling participants.



Inkdot said:


> I'm no expert on traditional martial arts, so correct me if I'm wrong, but they way I've heard it is that in the old days judo and JJ were pretty much the same thing. It's only relatively recently they 'branched out'.


In Gracie folklore they studied JJ and took the things that worked from JJ and got rid of the stuff that didn't, this is actually a pretty accurate description of how Judo started out, thing is Carlos Gracie never studied JJ ever, he trained under a very famous and accomplished Judoko and then trained his brothers and they started calling it Gracie JJ, of course the two entities on different continents developed into separate entities with unique identities (most likely because Judo was developing as a sport and BJJ as a fighting style) but the lineage is a lie to exaggerate Gracies influence in the early aspects of the sport.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

again, until Rashad gets pwned on the ground by BJJ there is no reason other then to stir up controversy to think that he isnt a legit blackbelt. Perhaps the ppl with real blackbelts here can issue him a challenge :thumb02:

personally, ive never seen rashad in trouble on the ground, never seen him really be controlled or ppl threaten subs on him that looked dangerous... nothing. Again, maybe he learned BJJ so he knew how to nullify it for his lethal GnP (or what at times has been lethal.... looked a bit weak last fight tbh).

Either way, if he isnt "legit" then lets see some top class BJJ guy expose him on the ground. 

Not only are you questioning the character of somebody you ultimately dont know personally (or maybe some of you do know Rolles?), you are also calling Rashad Evans character into question, im sure he would know he really didnt "earn" it but you feel he would take it anyways?? If so then i dont respect either of them.


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## Inkdot (Jun 15, 2009)

Toxic said:


> No, but if you actually do some reading on the history of the sport you find out that the Gracie's probably shouldn't be getting so much respect they actually have done alot of really shitty things, including practicing there JJ by jumping unwilling participants.
> 
> 
> 
> In Gracie folklore they studied JJ and took the things that worked from JJ and got rid of the stuff that didn't, this is actually a pretty accurate description of how Judo started out, thing is Carlos Gracie never studied JJ ever, he trained under a very famous and accomplished Judoko and then trained his brothers and they started calling it Gracie JJ, of course the two entities on different continents developed into separate entities with unique identities (most likely because Judo was developing as a sport and BJJ as a fighting style) but the lineage is a lie to exaggerate Gracies influence in the early aspects of the sport.


Yeah I know about the history of how gracie JJ appeared, Mitsuyo Maeda trained them in Judo (a derivate form of JJ - semantics). But you shouldn't blame contemprorary family members for imoral stuff their fathers did and call now living Gracies dishonorable for something they have not done. Thats like blaming current white americans for slavery, or current germans for WW-II and the holocaust.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

They feed the lies, Im not hating them but implying a Gracie would never be involved in something shady is laughable.

To a much lesser extent it would be like hating a white supremacist for slavery or a german holocaust denier for WW2


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## Inkdot (Jun 15, 2009)

Toxic said:


> They feed the lies, Im not hating them but implying a Gracie would never be involved in something shady is laughable.
> 
> To a much lesser extent it would be like hating a white supremacist for slavery or a german holocaust denier for WW2


What lies? To me it seems that your beef with the Gracies are.

1) Calling it Gracie JJ. Would calling it Gracie Judo be better? This point is purely semantics.

2) Some guys did some violent evil things a really long ago? How does this affect the morales of the current generation?

.. or is there something else? I'm not defending the Gracies or anything, i just can't see where your coming from? Please inform us why you have such an aggresive stance, I for one would like to know.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Inkdot said:


> What lies? To me it seems that your beef with the Gracies are.
> 
> 1) Calling it Gracie JJ. Would calling it Gracie Judo be better? This point is purely semantics.
> 
> ...



The outright lies about the records, and crap like when they lied to SEG after scouting Oleg Taktarov for the UFC saying he wasn't any good, Taktarov was a 6 foot 200 pound Judo and ***** master who would eventually make his way into the UFC despite the Gracie's objections and was a UFC tournament runner up at UFC 5 and he won UFC 6. Why would the Gracies say he wasn't good enough to compete in the early UFC's, maybe they thought he was a threat to Royce?

This is just an example but there have been numerous really shady stories about Gracies through the years, Gracie JJ is about money and the name Gracie sells so they will do anything to maintain the mystique around it.


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## TheGreenMachine (Aug 19, 2009)

Toxic said:


> The outright lies about the records, and crap like when they lied to SEG after scouting Oleg Taktarov for the UFC saying he wasn't any good, Taktarov was a 6 foot 200 pound Judo and ***** master who would eventually make his way into the UFC despite the Gracie's objections and was a UFC tournament runner up at UFC 5 and he won UFC 6. Why would the Gracies say he wasn't good enough to compete in the early UFC's, maybe they thought he was a threat to Royce?
> 
> This is just an example but there have been numerous really shady stories about Gracies through the years, Gracie JJ is about money and the name Gracie sells so they will do anything to maintain the mystique around it.


And how is this different from any other martial art? All of them have done shady things before, give questionable belts, and try to turn themselves into million dollar businesses but that doesn't mean all of them are bad people or every dojo is bad, especially the guys Rashad trains under and received his belt from.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...Greg Jackson has invented this new kind of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu that incorporates some wrestling principles as well. I forgot the name but Rashad certainly showcased the great wrestling he's had all along...

*"What a savage exchange in the middle of the ring"...
Max Kellerman*


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Does nobody realize the point of this at the start was not wether or not the fact the guy who gave Rashad his belt is a scumbag but merely that to say "a Gracie would never do that" like being a Gracie makes him above any kind of shady bullshit is laughable.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

I agree with the above statement


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

TheGreenMachine said:


> And how is this different from any other martial art? All of them have done shady things before, give questionable belts, and try to turn themselves into million dollar businesses but that doesn't mean all of them are bad people or every dojo is bad, especially the guys Rashad trains under and received his belt from.


 

I also agree with Toxics last statement after reading this entire thread and following it, it seems there has been a very accurate indication why the mere mention of a name should'nt instill such a skill or characteristic into someone....

The question as to all disciplines doing "shady things" isn't true, the reality is MOST martial arts are based of Honor and Respect, Gracie JJ is just that a hybrid of another fighting style and the mere example of their tactic's of practicing on common people isn't appreciated or respected in traditional Discaplines.... 


EDIT: I would assume thats where the disdain for the assumed high regard that should come with that name comes from.....


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## LCRaiders (Apr 7, 2008)

Well for someone who received a black belt in BJJ he sure didn't showcase it in his victory against Silva.


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## TheGreenMachine (Aug 19, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> I also agree with Toxics last statement after reading this entire thread and following it, it seems there has been a very accurate indication why the mere mention of a name should'nt instill such a skill or characteristic into someone....
> 
> *The question as to all disciplines doing "shady things" isn't true, the reality is MOST martial arts are based of Honor and Respect, Gracie JJ is just that a hybrid of another fighting style and the mere example of their tactic''s of practicing on common people isn't appreciated or respected in traditional Discaplines.... *
> 
> ...



And Taekwondo, Karate, and Kung Fu weren't all based off of honor and respect? They all have practiced off of common people at some point in time too and with many of their current business practices and belt factories, a lot of that honor and respect has gone out the window. The only difference has been that it wasn't televised and led way to MMA. 


Go to a GJJ gym today and see if they are still advocating practicing their skills on common people in the street or going to other gyms and doing it. They kick students out who do that now. The only place they allow for that now is on the mats in competition.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

I don't agree that just because an art is TMA you can expect all practitioners to have honor and respect. cmon now. how many mcdojo's are out there? When there is not mitigating force nothing keeps someone from exploiting such a belief either.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

TheGreenMachine said:


> And Taekwondo, Karate, and Kung Fu weren't all based off of honor and respect? They all have practiced off of common people at some point in time too and with many of their current business practices and belt factories, a lot of that honor and respect has gone out the window. The only difference has been that it wasn't televised and led way to MMA.
> 
> 
> Go to a GJJ gym today and see if they are still advocating practicing their skills on common people in the street or going to other gyms and doing it. They kick students out who do that now. The only place they allow for that now is on the mats in competition.


 
All forms forms, Thai Chee, Aikido, Bando, Capoeira, Hapkido, Karate, Tae Kwon Do across the board....

I'm not telling you that there aren't cases that people abuse their skills, I'm simply saying that Toxic's example is one that was carried out without the foundation of the above listed....

What happens today at a GJJ gym was already pointed out by Toxic himself earlier in this thread....I believe he was talking about GJJ founding father's....In terms of the above listed Discaplines, no it wasnt common practice from their founding father's in fact some are based on the exact opposite....

EDIT: Again as far as students, they are always gonna be students that practice an art for the wrong reason....


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

and Chuck has a purple belt in BJJ....

wtf is the point of this post???:confused02:


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## TheGreenMachine (Aug 19, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> All forms forms, Thai Chee, Aikido, Bando, Capoeira, Hapkido, Karate, Tae Kwon Do across the board....


You missed my point. Those were all based off of honor and respect (what martial art isn't?) but they have all become mcdojoized in some form or abused their honor in some shape or form. 



> I'm not telling you that there aren't cases that people abuse their skills, I'm simply saying that Toxic's example is one that was carried out without the foundation of the above listed....


Not sure what the foundation is you are talking about and I agree with Toxic on the Gracie's abusing their martial art too, but it really isn't anymore severe than any of the others. 



> What happens today at a GJJ gym was already pointed out by Toxic himself earlier in this thread....I believe he was talking about GJJ founding father's....In terms of the above listed Discaplines, no it wasnt common practice from their founding father's in fact some are based on the exact opposite....


I think Toxic was trying to discredit Rolls based off of his family if I read correctly, but like I said, that doesn't make it any different than any of the other martial arts. GJJ may have started out wrongly because of 1man, but many other martial arts are going wrongly currently. Does it really matter if it started off with good intentions or not? It matters more about where it is currently than how it started IMO.




> EDIT: Again as far as students, they are always gonna be students that practice an art for the wrong reason....


Not really. That is up to the individual. That's like saying because someone's father is a killer, he is going to be too. In fact, most BJJ practioners are the most passive people out there. They sure haven't picked up on the Gracie's past.


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

For The Record:


this Post Has Totally Veered Off Topic


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Inkdot said:


> I've never been even remotely concerned with belt colors, i think its nice but dosent say much about actual skill since the process of awarding belts is ultimately subjective.
> 
> Some slick BJJ guys and putting on submission clinics with 'only' brown or even purple belts. Some examples just from this card is 'Mr kimura from inverted triangle' who is brown belt and Joe Lauzon, while no guru, is only purple, I've seen him go for some pretty cool subs in the past...
> *
> It's not the color, it's the content that matters*.


I have a dream...that one day ye shall not be judged by the color of you belt, but for the content of your ground game. :thumb02:


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> I have a dream...that one day ye shall not be judged by the color of you belt, but for the content of your ground game. :thumb02:


 no kidding, my buddy trains in "retard strength" with Marcus Jones and the results are FANTASTIC on the ground!!


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Sekou said:


> For The Record:
> 
> 
> this Post Has Totally Veered Off Topic


 
Uh...Thread is off topic....

Yeah it is, i think the main reason you dont see Jitz from rashad is becuse of his wrestling, GSP has Jitz, where is it????


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## TheGreenMachine (Aug 19, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Uh...Thread is off topic....
> 
> Yeah it is, i think the main reason you dont see Jitz from rashad is becuse of his wrestling, GSP has Jitz, where is it????


His armbar on Hughes, his kimura attempts, and his guard passes? 

Its really up to the fighter to do what they want to do. Just because they have a certain skillset doesn't mean they always want to or have to use it. Depends on the situation and personal preferences.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

TheGreenMachine said:


> His armbar on Hughes, his kimura attempts, and his guard passes?
> 
> Its really up to the fighter to do what they want to do. Just because they have a certain skillset doesn't mean they always want to or have to use it. Depends on the situation and personal preferences.


 
Yeah and the last time we saw any of that was when???:confused02:

GSP is basically a wrester in like his last 5 fights.....there are tons of threads on it....my point is the skills are thee they arent often used....


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## TheGreenMachine (Aug 19, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Yeah and the last time we saw any of that was when???:confused02:
> 
> GSP is basically a wrester in like his last 5 fights.....there are tons of threads on it....my point is the skills are thee they arent often used....


So someone has to use a submission or attempt one every fight to prove they are good at BJJ? Certain moves are dependent on the situation, so why rely on them when you already have control?


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

Your fighting a loosing battle here bra ...ok here goes....What is GSP know for? His perfect wrestling. Yes he got an arm bar o.k cool. We all know GSP doesnt need it. Why pull out your shotgun when you can kill them with a pistol....in comparison....The same for Rashad...Im with you CC ...but Green are you just trying to troll? You just switched up your arguement


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

HMMMM

Im trying to look at this post from an empirical perspective:


*A bunch of grown men arguing over the validity of Rashad Evans belt....the reason for scrutinizing this is due to the fact they have never "seen" Mr Evans use BJJ in his MMA career*



hmmmm.....interesting to say the least.


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## Poland (Dec 31, 2006)

I thought Rashad's initial positioning when he attained side control looked consistent with (this sounds weird) GJJ . . . terms of where he was placing his head, shoulders, going to north/south - sort of looked like Renzo in some of his fights I thought. However, I think that no matter how good Rashad's JJ may be, it doesn't eradicate all his years of wrestling. 

In addition to getting submissions and having good submission defense, Evans probably is well adept at working off his back too - probably. But all his years of wrestling training to not go to his back COULD figure in when he's in the heat of battle, plus dealing with someone else who is a BJJ Blackbelt, and knowing he would expose himself for reversals/sweeps from an opponent capable of that. Rashad sort of seemd to have a JJ/wrestling hybrid of staying in control and on top of his opponent without really going for submissions as opposed to make sure to stay on top. I'd have to rewatch Rashad's fight, but it weems like when watching someone like Renzo, they hold tighter and stay closer to their opponent than Rashad did on top.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Alot of the problem with wrestlers who also have some BJJ is that most submissions involve giving up the dominant position something they are not comfortable with, wrestlers A) don't like to be on there back (so they don't want to risk a sweep) and B) most started out ground and pounding and have more experience doing so without risking giving up position. Basically if you have great top control ala GSP there is no reason to give up position for a submission attempt.


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## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

Sorry but his belt may be black but unless he uses it, like my father unfortunately did, it does not really matter.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

there were moments where Silva was standing up where he really shoulda slipped in a choke, ala Big Nog on Big Timmy, it was that exact situation and Evans didn't even attempt it. What you do is put your weight on your opponent then let him up so he exposes his neck, let him think he's escaped so you can choke him out.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Just because he didn't put Silva in a gogo doesn't mean he has no jiu-jitsu.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

vandalian said:


> Just because he didn't put Silva in a gogo doesn't mean he has no jiu-jitsu.


Silva also turtled and Evans looked like Lesnar. He didn't go for hooks or anything, looked like he panicked and didn't know what to do. I mean, these guys are supposed to be professional fighters and when you have a guy in perfect position to sink some hooks and choke him out you'd think it would be a good time to try something.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

rabakill said:


> Silva also turtled and Evans looked like Lesnar. He didn't go for hooks or anything, looked like he panicked and didn't know what to do. I mean, these guys are supposed to be professional fighters and when you have a guy in perfect position to sink some hooks and choke him out you'd think it would be a good time to try something.


Yeah, that's true enough, but he also knew Silva to be the superior BJJ player, so he was probably being careful, too.

All I'm saying is we can't question Rashad's black belt, just because he didn't show much BJJ in his recent MMA bouts.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

vandalian said:


> Yeah, that's true enough, but he also knew Silva to be the superior BJJ player, so he was probably being careful, too.
> 
> All I'm saying is we can't question Rashad's black belt, just because he didn't show much BJJ in his recent MMA bouts.


I guess the point was, your opponents bent over and getting up with has hands on the mat and his neck exposed, you'd think most guys would atleast attempt a guillotine. It's not like a failed guillotine leaves you open to anything really dangerous. I don't compete so I figure the heat of battle makes you not think as clearly but when I saw him not even react to the opening I was a little confused.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Not everybody is willing to give up dominant position to go for a sub attempt, especially in the UFC where top control is valued so highly. 

+ T Silva is dangerous on top. He's a BJJ BB and has dangerous GnP.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Bjj isn't all about submitting people either. Rashad is an excellent wrestler and grappler, which is why he is a Bjj black belt. I don't believe he has a black belt level guard... but then again, that's pure speculation.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

I was surprised how quickly and easily he got Thiago mounted.


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

Mjr said:


> I certainly think there are many many better Black belts in the UFC than Rashad, his Jiu Jitsu has never impressed me, that being said he rarely calls upon it. *But he let a few dominant positions slip today and failed to control Thiago on the ground.*


Yeah, I was thinking either Thiago was that good at getting back up from a dominant position, or Evans was lost on what to do when the opportunity presented itself. Maybe a combination of both.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Xerxes said:


> I was surprised how quickly and easily he got Thiago mounted.


he trains with GSP all the time so..... it's not really that surprising.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

Sekou said:


> and Chuck has a purple belt in BJJ....
> 
> wtf is the point of this post???:confused02:


...As in Liddell I presume? Yes he's always had a purple belt. He's never needed it. Chuck's great wrestling base along with his devastating knockout power made Jiu Jitsu take a back seat. Chuck ruled the throne from 04' to 06' with that thing called striking...


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Maybe he feels more confident at striking, he dosent have to use BJJ that much, if his insecure about it. For exapmple Jose Aldo, he has a BJJ black belt and has won 11 fights of his total 17 in a way of (T)KO.


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