# Cyborg ruining womens MMA?



## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

After watching Cyborg defend her title, it got me thinking. Women's MMA reached it's highest ever point when herself and Carano faced off for the first women's title in a main stream promotion. In the end it was a pretty one sided affair with Cyborg battering Gina until the fight was stopped at the end of the first. Then a few nights ago we saw Santos pretty easily defeat Coenen to retain the title. But is this domination actually working _against_ women's MMA? If it's just going to be a bunch of people losing to Cyborg then interest will wane pretty quickly and the interest in womens MMA might drop off.

Thoughts?


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## Toroian (Jan 3, 2009)

yeah 100% they is not the compition to compete vs her Close fights are more intresting then one sided ones so in that sence yeah its a shame 

you have to repect her skill and strenth its just at the wrong time in womans mma


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

Oh don't get me wrong. I think she's an amazing fighter and athlete, and a great role model for other girls wishing to get into MMA, but as I noted, it might not be the best for the sport as a whole.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

Good thing nobody in any of the male divisions have the same issue going on ...then I would no wotch nemore!!11

:sarcastic12:


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## DahStoryTella (Jul 11, 2009)

Kinda agree, not her fault though.


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## elardo (Jul 8, 2007)

Cyborg goes in there and does what she's supposed to do. She's not ruining it because she's the most dominant in that division. I don't recall Tyson ruining boxing when he was "untouchable." Also, she's only had one defense. It looks bleak for known competition, but she's setting a standard for women's MMA that I'm sure will be met.


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## Dan0 (Aug 22, 2008)

Well, I think it's good for the evolution of women's MMA.
Contenders will train harder and wiser to beat Cyborg. We will end up with a decent contender in no-time. 
More high level contenders = better fights in the division.

I think it's good.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

nothing makes sports bigger then a larger then life all time great. She is bringing alot more attention and good press then anybody before her by a longshot. She will hopefully inspire a generation of girls that might not have the courage to go against the grain and fight to do so. She will make the sport better then ever and already has.

As far as womans fights goes, i dont know call me crazy but i find as entertaining as mens fight usually. They often stand and bang and just whail on each other. It usually isnt the most techniqal battles but its often very brtual and decisive


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

CornbreadBB said:


> Good thing nobody in any of the male divisions have the same issue going on ...then I would no wotch nemore!!11
> 
> :sarcastic12:


Don't be a dick man, I was making a point. And yeah of course it happens in the male divisions, but there are a hell of a lot more divisions and promotions so it's not quite the same is it?!


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

tbh, I don't see Womens MMA popular in the future, so I think it doesn't do much.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

It's time for Cyborg to go to the division she belongs and fight some dudes in the ufc.


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## orlis (Jan 6, 2009)

Nefilim777 said:


> After watching Cyborg defend her title, it got me thinking. Women's MMA reached it's highest ever point when herself and Carano faced off for the first women's title in a main stream promotion. In the end it was a pretty one sided affair with Cyborg battering Gina until the fight was stopped at the end of the first. Then a few nights ago we saw Santos pretty easily defeat Coenen to retain the title. But is this domination actually working _against_ women's MMA? If it's just going to be a bunch of people losing to Cyborg then interest will wane pretty quickly and the interest in womens MMA might drop off.
> 
> Thoughts?


Yeah - I'm thinking it's amazing how people think. First men complain that female fighters in MMA aren't skilled enough, and now you're complaining that Cyborg is TOO skilled and hence will ruin WMMA? Look - you can't have it both ways. 

As several other posters have mentioned, when Tyson was on top, people paid good PPV money at $40 a pop to see him kick a** within 32 seconds. I mean - most people hadn't even swallowed their first bite of BYOB beer and his fights were finished. Additionally, with a female champion to beat, up-and-coming female fighters will have to train and work that much harder...so in fact she's bringing WMMA up a few notches.

Casual MMA fans only seem to look at Strikeforce and UFC to see what's going in the industry. Trust me - there are a LOT of female MMA fighters who are ready, willing and able to go toe-to-toe with Cyborg. The problem is getting the powers that be who are in the public's eye to take a chance on these no-name fighters that people just don't know. Jeff Meyers of Tuff-N-Uff has been willing to; so has Scott Coker. Moving from a small promotional team to the big time is not easy and takes time.

If you don't look around and just keep your blinders on, you'll never see there are other promotions and other female fighters who are just as capable as Cyborg out there.

Get your head out of the sand and keep watching WMMA. It's not going anywhere, in spite of all the naysayers.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

It still hard for me to watch womens mma... It just doesn't look natural, and there punches make me laugh to hard to take it serious... 

Cyborg being the only one that actually looks...... How do u say it?? Manly?

And ive seen some funny "Pain" taps from like elbows to the body or just body shots from a lot of women, that made me stop watching....

Just not for me i guess :sarcastic12:


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## orlis (Jan 6, 2009)

Machida Karate said:


> It still hard for me to watch womens mma... It just doesn't look natural, and there punches make me laugh to hard to take it serious...
> 
> Cyborg being the only one that actually looks...... How do u say it?? Manly?
> 
> ...


Well, "their" punches :sarcastic12: are relative. What that means is, one of their punches might not affect a guy who's got 100 lbs. on them, but it will affect their opponent.

MMA is not for everyone, and WMMA is not for everyone. If it makes you laugh "too" :sarcastic12: hard and you're afraid of breaking something, then don't watch. Flip to NJ Shore instead.


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## vaj3000 (Dec 28, 2008)

you guys think its a bad idea for cyborg to raise the bar for womens mma? Its survival of he fittest an some of you guys that would rather she dissapeared are doing female mma a great disservice...


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## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

The problem I see with Cyborg is that while her striking is pretty good, her biggest strength is well her strength. Even the commentators mentioned it several times that he take downs were achieved with brute strength rather than technique.


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## Uchaaa (Apr 22, 2007)

She is not good for it because she is ugly. And I dont only say that out of sexist reasons. Gina is good for womens mma because she is goodlooking, but cyborg is not. There must be a reason to watch womens mma because mens mma is the same but just much better. So its the outer appearance. Besides, I dont watch womens mma.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Women are good for one thing in MMA and that is to clean the ring after the mens fights


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

You gotta give credit to Cybog, she's an animal. But I believe she will make womens MMA evolve. Whenever you have someone "unstoppable" it forces the skill level to evolve to meet that. I think fighters like GSP, Anderson Silva, and Lyoto do the same for the sport on the men's end.

I do think that Brandon Vera's GF has the hands, stand up, and aggression to be able to take Cyborg. I think she has a good chance.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

orlis said:


> Yeah - I'm thinking it's amazing how people think. First men complain that female fighters in MMA aren't skilled enough, and now you're complaining that Cyborg is TOO skilled and hence will ruin WMMA? Look - you can't have it both ways.
> 
> As several other posters have mentioned, when Tyson was on top, people paid good PPV money at $40 a pop to see him kick a** within 32 seconds. I mean - most people hadn't even swallowed their first bite of BYOB beer and his fights were finished. Additionally, with a female champion to beat, up-and-coming female fighters will have to train and work that much harder...so in fact she's bringing WMMA up a few notches.
> 
> ...


1. I'm not a casual fan.
2. I do like Women's MMA.
3. I'm making the point that Strikeforce, the only 'big' promotion with women in it is being dominated by one woman in what's becoming a boring division.
4. Show me these fighters that will be Cyborg.
5. Are you a female fighter or something? Cause you're being very abrasive.


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

Nefilim777 said:


> Don't be a dick man, I was making a point. And yeah of course it happens in the male divisions, but there are a hell of a lot more divisions and promotions so it's not quite the same is it?!


This exactly ^^^


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## vaj3000 (Dec 28, 2008)

mr and mrs Cyborg having sex must be one hell of a battle


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## orlis (Jan 6, 2009)

Nefilim777 said:


> 1. I'm not a casual fan.
> 2. I do like Women's MMA.
> 3. I'm making the point that Strikeforce, the only 'big' promotion with women in it is being dominated by one woman in what's becoming a boring division.
> 4. Show me these fighters that will be Cyborg.
> 5. Are you a female fighter or something? Cause you're being very abrasive.


You didn't say you were making the point that Strikeforce was the only "big" promo...it sounded more like a blanket statement.

I'm not a female fighter, but I am a female, I do train in the martial arts, and I've worked very hard at helping to promote WMMA. I don't think I sound any more abrasive than you do, when you make statements like asking if Cyborg is ruining women's MMA, or others on this post who say things like women belong in the kitchen cooking, and that women belong cleaning the ring after the men fight, etc. After hearing comments like that - are you saying I should not stand up for WMMA?

As far as WMMA, here are some fighters in the 145lb. division you may or may not have heard of:

Erin Toughill 10-2-1 
Kelly Kobald 16-3-1 
Cindy Dandois 1-0-0 
Elaina Maxwell 2-3-0 
Megumi Yabushita 18-16-0 
Mayumi Aoki 4-6-0 
Karen Williams 3-4-0 
Mizuho Sato 5-3-0 
Fiona Muxlow 4-1-0 
Christine Taetsch 3-2-0 
Ediane Gomes 3-0-0 
Revelina Berto 3-0-0 
Jaime Seaton 2-1-0 
Emily Thompson 3-2-0 
Shana Olsen 3-0-0 
Tonya Perry 1-1-0 
Vanessa Mariscal 1-0-0 
Jessica Halverson 2-1-0 
Melissa Sherwood 3-1-0 (IFC World LHW Champion) 
Gina Mazany 2-0-0 
Megan Williams 1-0-0 
Stephanie Guimaraes 1-1-0 
Tonya Reyes 1-0-0 
Nikohl Johnson 1-1-0 
Chantelle Castellanos 1-1-0


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Ugh.......  NO offence at all to the OP, but threads like this make me sad 

Cyborg is doing everything she can to train as hard as possible, in order to make sure she beats all of her opponents.

If other women fighters do not evolve, she will be champ forever. But there is no peak on how good a woman can be at mma, 99% of us just don't know many of their names yet.

Go to Holland or Thailand and tell me there are no women out there with a chance. You just can't! 

I'm sorry, this just reminds me of the old threads about Brock being too big and ruining the sport.


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## evilappendix (Jan 4, 2007)

The only issue with her being the number one female in mma at the moment is simple minded men seem to only be interested in a woman who is exceptionally attractive being the champ. You guys are all still butt hurt Gina got her shit pushed in by a fighter who hasn't been coddled because she's a pretty face they can market. A dominant champion is very important for the growth of not only the organization but the competitors as well. Any real fan should understand this...


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

CornbreadBB said:


> Good thing nobody in any of the male divisions have the same issue going on ...then I would no wotch nemore!!11
> 
> :sarcastic12:


Good point ha.



Also, Cyborg vs Carano wasn't that one sided. Carano was doing really well until she just gave up.


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## Inkdot (Jun 15, 2009)

No wai! Cyborg is awesome. Shes helping the sport.

Also, she looks 100% like Chris Leben with a bra. raise01:


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Actually I think she looks like Wandy's long lost sister. But who cares how she looks? She's a fighter, and a good one at that, that's all that matters.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

evilappendix said:


> The only issue with her being the number one female in mma at the moment is simple minded men seem to only be interested in a woman who is exceptionally attractive being the champ. You guys are all still butt hurt Gina got her shit pushed in by a fighter who hasn't been coddled because she's a pretty face they can market. A dominant champion is very important for the growth of not only the organization but the competitors as well. Any real fan should understand this...


I think everyone will agree she's one hell of a fighter, almost to much so for other females. But all that leads to is other girls training harder to beat the best, so I see it as a great thing for womens mma to have such a strong champion.

But the simple minded men, I think you even said it, Gina got her shit pushed in....meaning cyborgs a dude :confused05:


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

The problem isn't Cyborg it is the fact she is the only one who from an athletic stand point is striving to be on an equal playing field to the guys. Cyborg is no more skilled then the other women but they are not properly preparing themselves whether due to a lack of dedication or the fact they are uncomfortable with the sterotypes that a woman built like Cyborg faces. The men of MMA today are better athletes than they used to be and Cyborg is just the trailblazer of that in womens MMA.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Soakked said:


> You gotta give credit to Cybog, she's an animal. But I believe she will make womens MMA evolve. Whenever you have someone "unstoppable" it forces the skill level to evolve to meet that. I think fighters like GSP, Anderson Silva, and Lyoto do the same for the sport on the men's end.
> 
> I do think that Brandon Vera's GF has the hands, stand up, and aggression to be able to take Cyborg. I think she has a good chance.


Kerry Vera is a beast, and I'd love to see that fight.

All Cyborg is doing is raising the bar due to natural athleticism and extremely hard work. Her domination so far merely raises the profile of women's MMA, IMO.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

offtopic- If steroids make guys balls smaller, would it make womans wonderfuls tighter? Anyway....moving right along.


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## kay_o_ken (Jan 26, 2009)

imo, its gonna be a few years before we se womens mma become legit, and by legit i mean worth caring about


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## QuackAttack (Sep 3, 2009)

The thing is that Cyborg is 10x stronger than all of the girls she's fighting. Hell even Girls with better technique than Cyborg, like Marloes and Gina, welted under the pressure of her attacks. During Cyborg's fight with Marloes, Cyborg was literally picking Marloes up and throwing her around the cage. Every time Marloes went for a submission, Cyborg just brushed her away with her pure strength.

Strikeforce could easily market Cyborg as some kind of unbeatable beats. If Strikeforce does this, it will start to raise question among the MMA on how "legit" Cyborg really is. Many people think she does roids and it isn't helping her cause or Strikforce's cause by staying quite on this issue. I'm not saying Cyborg does roids or anything and she is a very hard worker, but there is defiantly enough evidence of roid abuse to raise suspicion. Square jaw, low bf%, course skin, big forehead. Again, these could all be genetic gift, however, if they keep staying quite on an issue like this many people won't take her as legit.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

box said:


> offtopic- If steroids make guys balls smaller, would it make womans wonderfuls tighter? Anyway....moving right along.


I heard it makes certain structures grow, that should not be enlarged.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I don't think this is any different than the dominant male champs right now. I think that better competition will soon arrive for Cyborg as Strikeforce is getting woman's MMA out there. I also posted a thread about Strikeforce adding another woman's title for a lighter weight class so that will be there as well. :thumbsup:


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## QuackAttack (Sep 3, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I don't think this is any different than the dominant male champs right now. I think that better competition will soon arrive for Cyborg as Strikeforce is getting woman's MMA out there. I also posted a thread about Strikeforce adding another woman's title for a lighter weight class so that will be there as well. :thumbsup:


I have been following WMMA for years now and the only legitimate threats to Cyborg are Erin, Marloes, and Gina, after that, there is no one left in the 145 division that is a legit contender. 


It goes soemthing like this:

Cyborg>Erin, Gina, Marloes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the other girls at 145.

Seeing as how Cyborg has already beaten two out of the three big contenders, she only has Erin Toughill left. 

Out of the three contenders I listed above, Erin has the most experience out of all of them and she is the biggest out of all of them. Erin used to fight at 160-170lbs and competed in tons of pro boxing bouts. Erin is a solid striker with legit ground game, but Erin will be slow since she has to cut a lot of weight to make 145.


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## Prophet (Feb 5, 2010)

Soakked said:


> You gotta give credit to Cybog, she's an animal. But I believe she will make womens MMA evolve. Whenever you have someone "unstoppable" it forces the skill level to evolve to meet that. I think fighters like GSP, Anderson Silva, and Lyoto do the same for the sport on the men's end.
> 
> I do think that Brandon Vera's GF has the hands, stand up, and aggression to be able to take Cyborg. I think she has a good chance.


Lyoto hasn't really proven himself as unstoppable. Nor has GSP really but I see where you're coming from. 
A stand-out fighter elevates the skill level, causing it to be taken more seriously.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

IMHO women's MMA won't last long. It's sort of new with Gina Carano/Cyborg/Kerry Vera right now but it will die down and end up being what it was before, nothing. 

I don't mind watching the women fight, just because I love watching MMA but in all honesty most fans are casual and just wanna see guys scrap. 

Sad but true...

I give it another 1-2 years mainstream, at the most.


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## QuackAttack (Sep 3, 2009)

Stokes said:


> IMHO women's MMA won't last long. It's sort of new with Gina Carano/Cyborg/Kerry Vera right now but it will die down and end up being what it was before, nothing.
> 
> I don't mind watching the women fight, just because I love watching MMA but in all honesty most fans are casual and just wanna see guys scrap.
> 
> ...


I kinda agree.

WNBA 2.0


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I was saying that more woman could possibly break into the sport once it gets bigger. It could end up being a bust again, but it is definitely too early to say for sure.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

In response to the original question?.....no.

She had a good few fights but hasn't even proved the dominance of an Anderson Silva or a GSP. She beat Gina Carano who is/was the face of women's MMA and some people hate that fact, but she isn't that dominant.....yet.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

At this point, virtually anything that raises the profile of women's MMA is a good thing. IMO.

What interests me is that although Cyborg trains primarily with men by choice, many, many women have the experience of training in a male-dominated environment whether they want to or not. I'd like to hear her thoughts on that situation.


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## QuackAttack (Sep 3, 2009)

swpthleg said:


> At this point, virtually anything that raises the profile of women's MMA is a good thing. IMO.
> 
> What interests me is that although Cyborg trains primarily with men by choice, many, many women have the experience of training in a male-dominated environment whether they want to or not. I'd like to hear her thoughts on that situation.


All pro female fighters train with men. Erin, Marloes, Sarah, Gina, etc.. Cyborg is nothing special on that issue.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

To clarify, Cyborg has said that she prefers to train exclusively with men, since she's afraid she'll hurt a woman.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Nefilim777 said:


> After watching Cyborg defend her title, it got me thinking. Women's MMA reached it's highest ever point when herself and Carano faced off for the first women's title in a main stream promotion. In the end it was a pretty one sided affair with Cyborg battering Gina until the fight was stopped at the end of the first. Then a few nights ago we saw Santos pretty easily defeat Coenen to retain the title. But is this domination actually working _against_ women's MMA? If it's just going to be a bunch of people losing to Cyborg then interest will wane pretty quickly and the interest in womens MMA might drop off.
> 
> Thoughts?


It should be clear to someone who looks at the history of combat sports that what garners attention, what brings a sport into the mainstream, is not a great fighter, but great fights.

I think that's what the problem is for you, if I'm reading this correctly.

The argument is:



> Dominance makes for one-sided fights.
> 
> One-sided fights don't make for an card that draws lots of attention.
> 
> Without an exciting card that draws lots of attention, it's going to be hard for women's MMA to break into the mainstream.


If that's what you're saying, then I pretty much agree with you. MMA has broken into the mainstream as much as it has because there have been some absolutely awesome fights (Bonnar vs. Griffin I is a great example, but there are others).

I think that women's MMA is going to grow because of the lighter weightclasses, which are much more competitive. The three lighter weightclasses (135, 125 and 115) are incredibly diverse and incredibly exciting. As fighters like Sarah Kaufman (135) and Rosi Sexton (125) and Megumi Fujii (115) are at the top of their divisions, for damn sure, but I think that what makes those classes exciting are a number of exciting competitors.

Of course, Strikeforce had to start with 145, because they needed to bring in Gina and get some attention, but those lighter weightclasses are going to produce the best title fights.

Kaufman already has a number of exciting opponents that people are talking about: Tara LaRosa, Roxanne Modafferi, even Marloes Coenen. Even a couple overseas, like Takayo Hashi and Hitomi Akano.

Sexton has a number of interesting matchups. LaRosa could drop down, but also Aisling Daly and Zoila Frausto.

Fujii has a number of great opponents. Yuka Tsuji jumps to mind. But that division is a long way from getting brought in to Strikeforce, thought I think it's probably the best.

So, yes, Cyborg is not going to bring women's MMA into the mainstream, but if it's going to get attention, a promotion like Strikeforce can find ways to make it happen.


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## QuackAttack (Sep 3, 2009)

IronMan said:


> Of course, Strikeforce had to start with 145, because they needed to bring in Gina and get some attention, but those lighter weightclasses are going to produce the best title fights.
> 
> Kaufman already has a number of exciting opponents that people are talking about: Tara LaRosa, Roxanne Modafferi, even Marloes Coenen. Even a couple overseas, like Takayo Hashi and Hitomi Akano.
> 
> ...


IMO, it is becoming more apparent that Strikeforce took over for WMMA just for the Carano vs. Cyborg fight. Instead of adding the 135 tournament to their challenger cards, they farmed it out to FCF. Kaufmann is also scheduled to fight Hashi for the Strikeforce 135 belt on a challengers card! A CHALLENGERS CARD! That's very insulting to one of the P4P best in WMMA. 

Now with rumors of Marloes dropping to 135 and Gina leaving for movies, it makes the 145 division that much weaker. People are going to get tired of Cyborg fighting little girls, and eventually lose interest.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

QuackAttack said:


> IMO, it is becoming more apparent that Strikeforce took over for WMMA just for the Carano vs. Cyborg fight. Instead of adding the 135 tournament to their challenger cards, they farmed it out to FCF. Kaufmann is also scheduled to fight Hashi for the Strikeforce 135 belt on a challengers card! A CHALLENGERS CARD! That's very insulting to one of the P4P best in WMMA.
> 
> Now with rumors of Marloes dropping to 135 and Gina leaving for movies, it makes the 145 division that much weaker. People are going to get tired of Cyborg fighting little girls, and eventually lose interest.


That's a fair point. Hopefully they'll see that the fights make for good co-main events and will pull them up, but I think there's a strong possibility of the scenario that you're suggesting.


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