# ***OFFICIAL*** Maurício Rua vs. Dan Henderson Pre/Post Fight Discussion



## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

*









Please direct all threads/posts regarding this fight into this official thread. All other threads will be merged into this one.​*


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Always wondered why they never fought in Pride all those years. Now we get to see them...

I believe that Dan Henderson may get knocked out for the first time in his career or TKOed. Shogun is too quick for Hendo. Hendo's top game isn't the greatest, but after knocking out Bisping, Fejiao and "The Last Emperor" I think he'll be punch drunk. Wrong game plan and it may cost em... But that's what makes Hendo an exciting wrestling/grappler/mma fighter. He goes out and bangs!

This entire card is filled with all the heavy hitters!!!


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

This is a five rounder, right?


----------



## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

I gotta go with Hendo on this one, simply because he has the better chin. Shogun's technical stand-up is better, but Shogun has shown some susceptibility to being knocked out in the past. In a 5 rd fight, I think Shoguns Cardio could win him the fight but if he gets hit by that Legendary Hendo Bomb, it's lights out for the Gun. 

Hendo 2 rd (T)KO


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

dlxrevolution said:


> I gotta go with Hendo on this one, simply because he has the better chin. Shogun's technical stand-up is better, *but Shogun has shown some susceptibility to being knocked out in the past.* In a 5 rd fight, I think Shoguns Cardio could win him the fight but if he gets hit by that Legendary Hendo Bomb, it's lights out for the Gun.
> 
> Hendo 2 rd (T)KO


Huh? No he hasn't. Hendo has been rocked and dropped more times in his career than Shogun has.


----------



## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

Shogun is gonna run through him. Hendo beat Fedor, yes, but MMA is so much to do with momentum/downward spirals. Fedor was/is on one when he faced Hendo and it was written in the stars that Hendo would stop him.

Shogun weak chin ? Ridiculous, did you see the amount of punishment he took from Jones, yet he was still lumbering about throughout it all and still awake enough to be tapping at the end. Shogun has the momentum right now, and fire in his belly to go back after the belt. Hendo has momentum too, so it boils down to who is better, and at this point, its clearly Shogun, for me.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

I have some green on Rua. Glad I got in when he was an underdog [albeit barely]. In a five rounder, we know Hendo is susceptible to gassing. It'll be a great fight the 1st and 2nd round, but after that, it's all Rua.


----------



## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

GlasgowKiss said:


> Shogun weak chin ? Ridiculous, did you see the amount of punishment he took from Jones, yet he was still lumbering about throughout it all and still awake enough to be tapping at the end. Shogun has the momentum right now, and fire in his belly to go back after the belt. Hendo has momentum too, so it boils down to who is better, and at this point, its clearly Shogun, for me.


I don't think you can compare any strike Jones landed in that fight to a right hand from Hendo.

I believe if Hendo connects Shogun is going to sleep.


----------



## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

I was more replying to DixRevolution's comments than talking about Hendo's right hand.



> but Shogun has shown some susceptibility to being knocked out in the past


He has no KO losses, and two TKO losses - one was the broken arm against Coleman, and the other was 3 rounds of abuse from Jones. Where's the susceptibility thats worth mentioning ? Susceptible, no. Merely a mortal human, yes.


----------



## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Rarely are there fights in the UFC that i genuinely can't call either way but this is one. Shogun has looked decent against the best of the best whilst Hendo has looked phenominal against slightly less impressive opponents.

I think Shogun using his kicks is the key to this fight. If his knees are 100% and he throws his leg kicks, body kicks and head kicks freely and often he should be able get the win. If he boxes too much i think Hendo will land that right Hand... Very close to call.


----------



## ProdigyPenn (Sep 9, 2011)

I am siding with Hendo for this fight. As long as the age factor doesnt show up ( which I hasnt so far)


----------



## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Shogun. He's far far more technical standing than Hendo, and the power difference isn't that big. Hendo's overhand right should be seen coming by Shogun.

Shogun's chin is absolutely fantastic, as is Dan's. But I think Rua gets back up or sweeps when taken down, and lands far more on the feet for a later 4th round TKO victory.


----------



## "El Guapo" (Jun 25, 2010)

Hendo I'm a big fan of but Rua takes this - TKO round 2


----------



## Grotty (Jul 21, 2006)

MMA its an unpredictable strange beast at times, age mmmm dont think its gonna be a problem for Hendo however Cardio will be but lets look at Rua he really hasnt shown any better recently in that matter.
So striking, Rua has way more tools to KO Hendo etc, Hendos dirty boxing wont be a factor as Rua can negate that with his Muay Thai (plum etc), Hendo has Jits but i think Rua has the edge there, so the major tool for Hendo is his wrestling, again against the cage i think they will negate each other but Hendo on top would be a nightmare and that in my opinion is the only way he beats Rua, i dont think Rua is going to stand there like Bisping and eat a power shot. I pick Rua to win via a lop sided decision.


----------



## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Shogun all day, he is very unlikely to get dropped by a telegraphed overhand right from a smaller fighter than himself. Shogun's movement will also disuade Dan from going for takedowns, I think he'll move and counter very effectively in this fight.

Even if Hendo comes in with a view to wrestle Shogun to death, he will quickly be resorted to desperately throwing his right hand over and over. Hendo has been on a tear but Shogun is over a decade younger, has dismantled very tough guys who hit just as hard as Hendo, and in nearly all cases are technically much better.

Very unlikely that Hendo's return to the UFC will be as good as Nick Diaz' IMO.


----------



## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I think Henderson would be very smart to utilize his wrestling here.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Hendo for the win. Man is incredible. Going to be a great fight.


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

Hendo couldn't beat Jake shields who is a Welterweight, and now people think he can beat a LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT in Shogun?!?
People are crazy, this fight is merely a bone thrown to Shogun to get him back on the highlight reel KO train.


----------



## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Shogun has this one all day, this guy has outstruck the cream of the crop in the 205 division, Machida, Overeem, Rampage, Liddell, Lil Nog... I think it's totally unrealistic that Hendo is gonna time a overhand right on him and knock him out. Shogun is gonna have a field day kicking the living daylights out of Hendo's legs.

If Henderson can get him down, which can happen, I don't see Hendo having enough of a top game to hold the very active Rua down for long periods of time. Rua will be looking for a sweep or a sub all day, I wont be surprised if he taps Hendo here.

I love both guys, my two favorite LHW's, and I won't enjoy seeing Hendo take a loss, but seriously, Shoguns got this.


----------



## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

luckbox said:


> Shogun has this one all day, this guy has outstruck the cream of the crop in the 205 division, Machida, Overeem, Rampage, Liddell, Lil Nog... I think it's totally unrealistic that Hendo is gonna time a overhand right on him and knock him out. Shogun is gonna have a field day kicking the living daylights out of Hendo's legs.
> 
> If Henderson can get him down, which can happen, I don't see Hendo having enough of a top game to hold the very active Rua down for long periods of time. Rua will be looking for a sweep or a sub all day, I wont be surprised if he taps Hendo here.
> 
> I love both guys, my two favorite LHW's, and I won't enjoy seeing Hendo take a loss, but seriously, Shoguns got this.


I'm in agreement here.

I love both guys, sure there's a chance Henderson will catch Shogun (there's always a chance with the H bomb).

I think Shogun will outlast Dan, clinch and use his brutal muay thai to tenderize Henderson. I see a TKO/KO happening.

Shogun is coming for blood and I think he will stop Henderson in the 1st or second round.

I see this fight starting at a brutally fast pace like the Hendo/Fedor fight.


I can't wait!!!:thumb02:


----------



## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I think Henderson would be very smart to utilize his wrestling here.


He would but won't. Hes going to shuffle round the octagon looking for a h-bomb.

I can see this being Hendo's first Tko/Ko loss.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

pipe said:


> He would but won't. Hes going to shuffle round the octagon looking for a h-bomb.
> 
> I can see this being Hendo's first Tko/Ko loss.


This could very well happen.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> Hendo couldn't beat Jake shields who is a Welterweight, and now people think he can beat a LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT in Shogun?!?
> People are crazy, this fight is merely a bone thrown to Shogun to get him back on the highlight reel KO train.


He also has a fucked back and no cardio in that fight, he also just ko'd fedor which no one has done at HEAVYWEIGHT, also shogun has weak cardio and weak wrestling, and people say dan's right is telegraphed but guess what it keeps on landing, shogun is like feijou and the same fate that happened to him will happen to shogun.

Cred bet for Hendo if anyones interested I put up a member bet.


----------



## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Pros picking the heavy handed wrestler yet again. I honestly don't think the wrestling will be a factor and I think Rua will hurt Dan before vice versa, and we know what happens when Shogun rocks anyone.


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Heres a fight that is awesome but I wish had no consequences because I would like to see both fighters hovering around the title picture. 

Dan is a wrestler who always forgets that hes a wrestler. The last time he used his wrestling effectively was against Rich Franklin who was tooling him in the stand up. Dan's right hand is legendary, but do we really think that he can land such an expected shot against one of the best strikers in MMA? If Dan decides he wants to stand up and slug it out then we might see him earning his first KO loss. Shogun is faster, more technical, and can keep him out of range with powerful kicks.


----------



## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

SM33 said:


> Pros picking the heavy handed wrestler yet again. I honestly don't think the wrestling will be a factor and I think Rua will hurt Dan before vice versa, and we know what happens when Shogun rocks anyone.


The Pro's are leaning towards Henderson...

The MMA Forum poll is leaning towards Shogun...

Hmmm i wonder who will be right *strokes chin*


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I'm actually surprised the pros are giving more of a chance to Hendo than Shogun. I know Hendo can pull it off and sure as hell hope it but i'm leaning towards Shogun somehow.


----------



## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

> The Pro's are leaning towards Henderson...
> 
> The MMA Forum poll is leaning towards Shogun...
> 
> Hmmm i wonder who will be right *strokes chin*


Well we won for Velasquez vs JDS. JDS was fave on here by only one vote but still... the pros picked Cain almost unanimously.


----------



## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

For this fight I don't think age is a factor because by the time you consider surgeries, injuries, time fighting, etc, these two men are almost identical. It also comes down to who these guys have looked against their opponents and who they were.

Shogun - Lyoto - win via KO
Year layoff
Shogun - JBJ - loss via one sided beating
Shogun - Griffin - win via KO

Hendo - Jake Shields - Loss via leg hump
8 month layoff
Hendo - Sobral - win via KO
Hendo - Cavalcante - win via KO
Hendo - Fedor - win via KO

It is clear that Shogun has the better opponents, but in the same amount of time Hendo has 1 more fight showing that if either fighter is having health problems it is probably Shogun. Shogun cleaned Forrest out so quickly that is impossible to tell how he is feeling, and his fight against JBJ was no real indication as he spent most of it in some state of rocked/exhausted/confused.

The trend with Hendo though shows, as everyone has suggested, that he has turned to head hunting. His opponents are also known for not having the best boxing defense so the fact they got caught and he finished them is no surprise.

What it comes down to for me really is which Hendo and which Shogun do we see come fight night. I hope we see the best of both because I will root for Hendo but I have no freakin clue who wins this fight.


----------



## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

For those of you picking Shogun, how do you see him winning? Because I honestly can't think of how he would. I'm not saying he can't, it's just on paper Henderson is basically better in every way besides BJJ. He punches harder, has FAR superior wrestling, FAR superior cardio etc. I'm just curious to how the people picking Shogun see this fight playing out.


----------



## AmEagle (Jun 13, 2007)

I think Shogun is going to be the first man to KO Henderson. Henderson should wrestle with Shogun and ground and pound on him, but I can't see him going with that game plan. I think he will try and stand with Shogun and get torn up.


----------



## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

AlphaDawg said:


> For those of you picking Shogun, how do you see him winning? Because I honestly can't think of how he would. I'm not saying he can't, it's just on paper Henderson is basically better in every way besides BJJ. He punches harder, has FAR superior wrestling, FAR superior cardio etc. I'm just curious to how the people picking Shogun see this fight playing out.


Henderson is famed for his right bomb, but I don't think he hits much harder. The difference, if any, must be negligible. Shogun's stand up is far more advanced and varied, and unlike Fedor, is coming in with his confidence back up. I see Shogun taking Henderson apart on the feet. Quite a few fighters go through most of their career without being KO'd/TKO'd, then it just starts happening to them.

I think Shogun will TKO Henderson, with his all round superior stand up


----------



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Heart says Shogun via brutal TKO, brain says Hendo via clinch n squeeze


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I just have a feelin' that Shogun is gonna blitz Hendo...BADLY! Henderson hasn't done well in the UFC oddly enough with the exception of Bisping and Palhares. Against Rich Franklin that wasn't a very impressive showing. Of course he lost to both champs; Rampage and Anderson Silva and got stripped of his Pride belts. 

Shogun by 2nd round TKO. Don't let me down...I'm putting in an order for two Bad Boy Brazillian Hoodies...lolz!


----------



## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

No_Mercy said:


> I just have a feelin' that Shogun is gonna blitz Hendo...BADLY! Henderson hasn't done well in the UFC oddly enough with the exception of Bisping and Palhares. Against Rich Franklin that wasn't a very impressive showing. Of course he lost to both champs; Rampage and Anderson Silva and got stripped of his Pride belts.
> 
> Shogun by 2nd round TKO. Don't let me down...I'm putting in an order for two Bad Boy Brazillian Hoodies...lolz!


In reference to Hendo's championship fights, while he did lose he did have a good showing against both. Most people credit him with being the first person to make AS lose a round and his fight against Rampage was very good.

Also I would think a blitz would be bad as it tends to leave you open to counters. If Shogun takes this it is because he uses a measured approach of solid combo's that keep his left hand up to block the right counter from Hendo, it would also be wise to use those massive legs of his to start the kicks early and risk the TD.


----------



## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

This fight just makes me incredibly sad when I think about it. Sad not because of the fight itself, which should be great and is a long time coming, but because of the lost super-fight that history will never get to see: *Liddell vs. Henderson.*


----------



## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Shogun is going to grab that plum as soon as Hendo gets too close, and fire knees into his big chin like a jackhammer. He got a good one on Griffin at the end of an exchange, he'll put them on the shorter Hendo quite comfortably.

Kicks at distance, knees in the clinch, and when Hendo starts windmilling his right Rua will see it coming and beat him to the punch.

If the fight hits the ground, it will probably be close to the fence and Rua will get back up in little time ala vs Machida and at one point against Jones, if a submission is available he'll chase that too.

On the feet Hendo has a wound up right hand, and the ground he has the same thing as long as he's in a position to use it. Nothing Rua hasn't seen before, unfortunately Dan thinks that Shogun is nothing he hasn't seen before... wrong.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

SM33 said:


> Shogun is going to grab that plum as soon as Hendo gets too close, and fire knees into his big chin like a jackhammer. He got a good one on Griffin at the end of an exchange, he'll put them on the shorter Hendo quite comfortably.
> 
> Kicks at distance, knees in the clinch, and when Hendo starts windmilling his right Rua will see it coming and beat him to the punch.
> 
> ...


wrong shogun is a slightly better feijou thats it with worse cardio and power


----------



## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

> wrong shogun is a slightly better feijou thats it with worse cardio and power


You cannot compare Cavalcante to Shogun at all. He's 11-3, yeah he won the Strikeforce belt but he lost it straight away to the first highly notable opponent of his career, Hendo, and he did actually drop him if I recall.

All Shogun does is destroy notable opponents, the last time he fought someone not well known or highly ranked was like 04/05 in Japan, but in Japan they were well known and ranked. Feijao will never build a resume comparable to Rua's, and yeah they have similar bases but they do not fight similarly.

And if anyone is going to gas in this fight, it's Hendo. He'll be swinging that right as hard as he can, hitting thin air and getting countered all over.


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

cdtcpl said:


> In reference to Hendo's championship fights, while he did lose he did have a good showing against both. Most people credit him with being the first person to make AS lose a round and his fight against Rampage was very good.
> 
> *Also I would think a blitz would be bad as it tends to leave you open to counters. If Shogun takes this it is because he uses a measured approach of solid combo's that keep his left hand up to block the right counter from Hendo, it would also be wise to use those massive legs of his to start the kicks early and risk the TD.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> ...


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

SM33 said:


> You cannot compare Cavalcante to Shogun at all. He's 11-3, yeah he won the Strikeforce belt but he lost it straight away to the first highly notable opponent of his career, Hendo, and he did actually drop him if I recall.
> 
> All Shogun does is destroy notable opponents, the last time he fought someone not well known or highly ranked was like 04/05 in Japan, but in Japan they were well known and ranked. Feijao will never build a resume comparable to Rua's, and yeah they have similar bases but they do not fight similarly.
> 
> And if anyone is going to gas in this fight, it's Hendo. He'll be swinging that right as hard as he can, hitting thin air and getting countered all over.


.
Hendo has excellent conditioning at lhw so no cardio is not an issue for Dan.

Cardio> Henderson
Power> Henderson
Striking> Rua
Wrestling> Henderson
BJJ> Shogun I guess but Hendo barely gets swept or subbed

Round 3 KO after Shogun gets outwrestled and gassed and then Hendo takes advantage.


----------



## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

I have a feeling that Shogun will win... but I also have a feeling that Henderson will get the KO. They both feel the same.. so I don't know what to believe. It'll be a sad fight for me though, I like both fighters a lot and unless this goes to decision... which it probably won't... I just hope it's not a super KO with extra hits is all.


----------



## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

I see Shogun being too fast for Henderson. Bisping was outpointing Hendo on the feet, and Shogun is a significantly better Muay Thai striker than Bisping, and has the defence to avoid the big right hand. Shogun's going to outclass Henderson for the entire fight, and take a comfortable UD.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Danm2501 said:


> I see Shogun being too fast for Henderson. Bisping was outpointing Hendo on the feet, and Shogun is a significantly better Muay Thai striker than Bisping, and has the defence to avoid the big right hand. Shogun's going to outclass Henderson for the entire fight, and take a comfortable UD.


Please, Shoguns cardio is as reliable as a quote from Bob Arum. it'll disappear by round 2 and then Hendo will easily deconstruct him to a KO. BTW KRY our bet is for 1.5 million.


----------



## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Shogun went 5 rounds with Machida without being gassed, and actually looked better in Rounds 4 and 5 than he did in the first. The issues with Shogun's cardio have been due to injuries, or in the case of the Jones fight being hurt and not able to recover. Shogun is healthy, he shouldn't have any issues with cardio in this fight, and he's going to put it on Henderson and prove he deserves another title shot. A fit, healthy Shogun Rua is the best fighter at 205lbs AFAIC. He's getting that belt back.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Danm2501 said:


> Shogun went 5 rounds with Machida without being gassed, and actually looked better in Rounds 4 and 5 than he did in the first. The issues with Shogun's cardio have been due to injuries, or in the case of the Jones fight being hurt and not able to recover. Shogun is healthy, he shouldn't have any issues with cardio in this fight, and he's going to put it on Henderson and prove he deserves another title shot. A fit, healthy Shogun Rua is the best fighter at 205lbs AFAIC. He's getting that belt back.


Na Hendo will H bomb his ass back down the ladder.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Please, Shoguns cardio is as reliable as a quote from Bob Arum. it'll disappear by round 2 and then Hendo will easily deconstruct him to a KO. BTW KRY our bet is for 1.5 million.


You are aware that for a long period in his career, Shogun was actually known for his unlimited cardio and relentless pressure which overwhelmed his opponents?

You want to discredit a fighter because he has been unfortunate enough to be plagued by very serious knee injuries and then rip on him for having no cardio. Watch out, because karma is a bitch.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> You are aware that for a long period in his career, Shogun was actually known for his unlimited cardio and relentless pressure which overwhelmed his opponents?
> 
> You want to discredit a fighter because he has been unfortunate enough to be plagued by very serious knee injuries and then rip on him for having no cardio. Watch out, because karma is a bitch.


He has been gassed against griffin,Bones,Coleman and who knows about 134 griffin and liddell because they ended fast, why should I believe that Shogun will come in shape if he has nearly been unfit for half his UFC fights, knee injuries suck but that doesn't mean you come back unfit it means you didn't train hard on your cardio. I have seen fighters come back from layoffs and have no problems with cardio, Rashad hit Tito a million times and he had a longer layoff, akiyama had over a year off and then he beat alan belcher. If I had some stats with me I could tell you more.


----------



## otronegro (Aug 23, 2011)

Its hard to predict anything because we dont know which Shogun is showing up. if hes 100%, then i think Shogun takes this one.

The worst part is not knowing for who to cheer because as much I love Shogun, i dont want to see him against JBJ any time soon again; I like a lil less Hendo but the fact that i want him to knock out JBJ makes me really cheer for him on this one.
I guess the outcome doesnt matter much to me. I just hope Mauricio bring his A game, cuz i bet Hendo will.

voted Shogun btw.


----------



## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> He has been gassed against griffin,Bones,Coleman and who knows about 134 griffin and liddell because they ended fast, why should I believe that Shogun will come in shape if he has nearly been unfit for half his UFC fights, knee injuries suck but that doesn't mean you come back unfit it means you didn't train hard on your cardio. I have seen fighters come back from layoffs and have no problems with cardio, Rashad hit Tito a million times and he had a longer layoff, akiyama had over a year off and then he beat alan belcher. If I had some stats with me I could tell you more.


He wasn't gassed against Forrest, he was suffering with a seriously bad knee injury, which required surgery and a year of rehabilitation. Then against Coleman he'd just come back from that surgery, had ring rust and was competing for the first time in 16 months, there are lots of fighters that suffer in the same way after a long lay off after serious surgery, look at Velasquez. Then against Bones, he had his equilibrium shocked by the early flying knee, and never really recovered. When you're badly hurt by a guy with the power and relentless nature of Jon Jones, you're going to struggle to recover. It wasn't gassing in a lack of cardio terms, it was 'gassing' due to being badly hurt, there's a difference and not being given chance to recover and regain his pace and rhythm.

Also, as McKeever rightly pointed out, Shogun has been known for his relentless cardio when he's healthy. In PRIDE he'd be able to go full pace for the entire fight easily, he beat The Reem and Arona in the same night in PRIDE and he handled 5 rounds against Machida easily. Shogun is healthy, I'm sure he'll be well prepared, as he was against Forrest, and we're going to see him put a clinic on Henderson. Hendo has looked great, but Shogun's going to make him look slow. I don't see this fight being close.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Danm2501 said:


> He wasn't gassed against Forrest, he was suffering with a seriously bad knee injury, which required surgery and a year of rehabilitation. Then against Coleman he'd just come back from that surgery, had ring rust and was competing for the first time in 16 months, there are lots of fighters that suffer in the same way after a long lay off after serious surgery, look at Velasquez. Then against Bones, he had his equilibrium shocked by the early flying knee, and never really recovered. When you're badly hurt by a guy with the power and relentless nature of Jon Jones, you're going to struggle to recover. It wasn't gassing in a lack of cardio terms, it was 'gassing' due to being badly hurt, there's a difference and not being given chance to recover and regain his pace and rhythm.
> 
> Also, as McKeever rightly pointed out, Shogun has been known for his relentless cardio when he's healthy. In PRIDE he'd be able to go full pace for the entire fight easily, he beat The Reem and Arona in the same night in PRIDE and he handled 5 rounds against Machida easily. Shogun is healthy, I'm sure he'll be well prepared, as he was against Forrest, and we're going to see him put a clinic on Henderson. Hendo has looked great, but Shogun's going to make him look slow. I don't see this fight being close.


I see Hendo wrestling him for 2 rounds dominantly then hitting him with a H bomb and ending it was GNP, Hendo is a monster and Shogun only has one tool to win, and Dan has a great chin so it just makes it that much harder.


----------



## the ultimate (Mar 5, 2007)

I think Shogun will sub him late. I think it will be a striking battle with Shogun having more variety and superior technique before eventually choking him out late on. Maybe after hurting him. Can't wait.


----------



## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

UFC_OWNS said:


> I have seen fighters come back from layoffs and have no problems with cardio, Rashad hit Tito a million times and he had a longer layoff, akiyama had over a year off and then he beat alan belcher. If I had some stats with me I could tell you more.


Rashad had a minor ligament sprain in his knee where all he had to do was rest for a few weeks before going back to his training. You're not going to lose much if any fitness from this. Shogun had major knee surgery where he was in rehab for many months and couldn't train at all during that time. It's a world of difference between the two.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

aerius said:


> Rashad had a minor ligament sprain in his knee where all he had to do was rest for a few weeks before going back to his training. You're not going to lose much if any fitness from this. Shogun had major knee surgery where he was in rehab for many months and couldn't train at all during that time. It's a world of difference between the two.


Right but the layoff was longer, shogun's rehab was done months before the fight with jones


----------



## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

I really don't want either guy to lose. 

That said, I think Shogun wins.... But I want Hendo to be the UFC LHW champ before he retires, so I HOPE Hendo wins.


that make any sense?


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

After re-watching Hendo's last two fights there was something I forgot to mention.

He got rocked badly in both of those fights and put on his ass. Shogun is a much much better fighter than Feijiao and Fedor. If Hendo gets rocked like that, hes going down and then getting finished by Shoguns epic hammerfists and GnP. Hendo doesn't have the striking defense to stand and trade with someone who hits as hard and as accurate as Rua


----------



## Risto (Oct 11, 2006)

Hendo via a Bisping.

Still brings a smile to my face...


----------



## The Legacy (Aug 14, 2008)

I see Shogun dominating the early part of the fight with his greater variety of strikes and leg kicks, before Henderson starts to assert himself physically and then gets the KO late in the second round with that huge right hand.


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

I'm a fan of both of these guys and think Shogun is the better fighter but I get the feeling Hendo lands an overhand right at some point and puts him to sleep.


----------



## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

The prefight for this one reminds me a lot of Lyoto vs. Randy.


----------



## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

Shogun is going to win. why? Because in the UFC he is the old man killer. The guy just handles the 40+ years old crowd. He has finished Chuck Liddell and Mark Coleman quite easily. I feel he is going to continue that and beat Hendo impressively as well. I dunno why the UFC makes Shogun keep fighting old guys. lol. This also reminds me of Machida vs Couture. Hendo is going to look slow and 1 step behind in this fight while he desperately tries to connect with an overhand right.


----------



## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

The only thing that has me worried is that Shogun has never won a fight in the US since coming over to the UFC, and he's lost in every possible way (sub, decision, TKO). He's got all the tools to win so hopefully he puts everything together and comes out with the victory.


----------



## SlowGraffiti (Dec 29, 2007)

aerius said:


> The only thing that has me worried is that Shogun has never won a fight in the US since coming over to the UFC, and he's lost in every possible way (sub, decision, TKO). He's got all the tools to win so hopefully he puts everything together and comes out with the victory.


well technically he has a decision loss but performance-wise, no, and you know it.


----------



## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Rua looking good for this fight at the weigh in and open workout.

A slightly overlooked aspect of this fight is the physical differences. I know Hendo has defeated bigger guys than himself, but none of them posess striking abilty near that of Shogun's and Shogun will be having a couple inches extra height, and a 5 inch reach advantage. Shogun has tooled guys that are bigger than him AND are much better strikers than Hendo.

Hendo is quite muscley but is not drained of weight and ripped, and he still only weighed in at 203. Hendo has a lot of support for this fight but I think he's in for a rough night.


----------



## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

This is a really hard fight to call.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Shogun is a complete different animal!!

If it was a 3 rounder I would give Hendo a small chance due to his Wrestling ability.. but in a 5 Rounder against a 100% Shogun Rua? No chance!!

People tend to forget that Hendo fought to a Draw with Franklin not too long ago lol

Shogun will work him hard on the feet and win a UD.


----------



## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> Shogun is a complete different animal!!
> 
> If it was a 3 rounder I would give Hendo a small chance due to his Wrestling ability.. but in a 5 Rounder against a 100% Shogun Rua? No chance!!
> 
> ...


Hendo won a split decision against Franklin. Nearly 3 years ago.

I'm finding it hard to picture Hendo winning unless he lands his right hand at full power perfectly.

Shogun is just too good in every area. His wrestling is miles below Hendo's level but his BJJ is so offensive I think he'll do well off of his back.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

K R Y said:


> Hendo won a split decision against Franklin. Nearly 3 years ago.
> 
> I'm finding it hard to picture Hendo winning unless he lands his right hand at full power perfectly.
> 
> Shogun is just too good in every area. His wrestling is miles below Hendo's level but his BJJ is so offensive I think he'll do well off of his back.


Scored it a Draw!

True, like I said. A healthy Shogun is either number 1 or 2 in the World.

Jones is neither 1 nor 2.


----------



## AmEagle (Jun 13, 2007)

Henderson has been talking about how he thinks he has better standup and has better hands in the countdown show and his interview with Helwani. This is ignorance and if he actually believes that he's in trouble. He needs to wrestle if he wants to win.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I think Hendo can take him down anytime he wants and beat him up on the ground. Somewhere along the line Shoguns ground game got a little over rated. 

Unfortunately I think Henderson has too much pride to fight smart and he makes this a stand up war that anybody could win.

My prediction: Shogun comes out strong but can't finish and gasses. henderson wins after taking a beating that would have killed Rampage.:confused05:


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

oldfan said:


> I think Hendo can take him down anytime he wants and beat him up on the ground. Somewhere along the line Shoguns ground game got a little over rated.
> 
> Unfortunately I think Henderson has too much pride to fight smart and he makes this a stand up war that anybody could win.
> 
> My prediction: Shogun comes out strong but can't finish and gasses. henderson wins after taking a beating that would have killed Rampage.:confused05:


If this happens, and Hendo pulls of a "Rocky"... I'll be disgusted... followed by mild amusement.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

If Hendo doesn't get takedowns I have to favour Shogun. Hendo is a one handed puncher, Shogun has power in both hands, his knees and his legs.


----------



## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

I'm ready for this one.

Shogun by stoppage.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Here's hoping Wandy's win has Shogun riled up!


----------



## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

Nah, more I think about it the more I think Hendo will be too much for Shogun. Shogun's a physically tough dude, but his mental game is suspect. Hendo has the heart of a lion, decent clinch wrestling and career ending knockout power. Shogun can win, obviously, but I favour Hendo at this point.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Hendo H bomb KO


----------



## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

Shogun comes out to seriously dodgy music..such a vibe killer


----------



## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

I say Hendo TKO round 2.


----------



## arkanoydz (Mar 15, 2010)

i hope Shogun puts on a stand-up clinc or leg-locks the sh*t out of Hendo


----------



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

> @UFC
> Wanderlei just yelled "WAR SHOGUN" at the Rua camp as they walked past on way to cage!


Awesome!


----------



## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

This has probably been the best card of the year, every fight from top to bottom has been entertaining, the worst was Bonnar vs Kingsbury and it wasn't even a bad fight.


----------



## arkanoydz (Mar 15, 2010)

i mostly root for Shogun but am always worried for him cos he just doesn't have that 'bad mf' look about him... even though he's given us some great finishes


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Soooo pumped!!!


----------



## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

Dang Hendo is a beast.


----------



## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Hendo is landing some bombs, i predicted round 4 KO for Hendo but i dunno if it will last that long.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Dammit, Shogun, quit trying to wrestle!


----------



## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

This is the baddest 41 year old on the planet.


----------



## box (Oct 15, 2006)

H-bombs dropping all over


----------



## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

Shogun looks a bit fat.

Hendo/Jones should be good.


----------



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Does Shogun have a Chuck-belly or is it just me?


----------



## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

hendo gassed after 2 and 1/2 mins WTF!


----------



## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

Great round.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Me thinks Shogun is about to pump up the volume!


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Shogun has lost ALL of his speed.

Hendo looking good early. Both guys got hurt which is nuts.

Shogun's knees probably popped on one of those takedowns.


----------



## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

I want to take TRT.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

umm 10-10?


----------



## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

Budhisten said:


> Does Shogun have a Chuck-belly or is it just me?


No he is for sure looking like he is carrying some extra weight there.


----------



## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

What a dramatic round! I just love both of these guys. WARRIORS!!


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Hendo is one of the most game fighters of all time, holy hell. 

Shogun is recovering though


----------



## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

Very close round!


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

I have a perfect stream


----------



## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Shogun you fat bitch,
you only come in shape against Machida,
Fu*k YOU!
Gonna lose my 50K.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Both rounds to Hendo so far.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

What did I say guys shogun has bad cardio, I say Hendo KO this round


----------



## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

Tough gruelling fight. Shogun showing a little more heart than I thought. Dan looks tired though, I worry.


----------



## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

******* Shogun is gassed. Jesus christ.


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

AmdM said:


> Shogun you fat bitch,
> you only come in shape against Machida,
> Fu*k YOU!
> Gonna lose my 50K.


He didn't even come in shape against Machida, he was just able to end it quickly...


----------



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

@CompuStrike
Thru 2 rounds, Henderson has a 69-44 edge in total strikes landed and a 29-20 edge in total power strikes. #compustrike


----------



## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

so impressed by Shogun's chin...


----------



## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

I can't bring myself to hate on Shogun after coming back from that...


----------



## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

shogun needs to take some time off after this fight regardless of outcome...


----------



## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Shogun is out on his feet.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Shogun is a warrior!


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

People can rip on Shogun all they want, but his heart is undeniable.

Still... does anyone actually believe either guy has anything for JJ...?


----------



## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

Definitely have to take back what I said..Shogun does have some inner strength, man...he is gassed, busted up and hurt, yet still going for it. Terrific fight.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> People can rip on Shogun all they want, but his heart is undeniable.
> 
> Still... does anyone actually believe either guy has anything for JJ...?


Hendo does if he works on his fooking cardio.


----------



## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Fight Of The Year!!!!


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Shogun has the heart of a warrior, he has really earned his nickname.

Great fight.


----------



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Tag n' trade fest up in here!


----------



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Smoothest crucifix ever!


----------



## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

What. A. Fight!!!


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Canadian Psycho said:


> People can rip on Shogun all they want, but his heart is undeniable.
> 
> Still... does anyone actually believe either guy has anything for JJ...?


Yeah, an easy win.


----------



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Pink shorts = violent fight!

This is just ridiculous, loving it!


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Attack Him, Shogun!!!!


----------



## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

Oh wow!
Hendo is hurt!!!


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

This is nuts.


----------



## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

hendo looking like frankenstein out there


awesome fight!


----------



## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

******* thrilling.


----------



## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Holy shit


----------



## box (Oct 15, 2006)

I thought the walking dead was on tomorrow, holy shit.


----------



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Hendo just fell off the damn cliff! Zombie FTW!


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Dammit... that was a huge opportunity for Rua


----------



## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

God damn. What a fight. Such warriors.


----------



## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

I have a pulsating boner


----------



## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

My veins are burning. Too much adrenaline! :thumb02:


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

wow what a fight!!!!! This is absolutely [email protected]!!


----------



## NameChange (Mar 4, 2007)

I wish this fight was one that was on FOX lol. God damn this is amazing..raise01:


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Shogun this is your turn, DO IT! LETS GO


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

omg Shogun you can do it!!!! Just push a little more!!!!!


----------



## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Shogun is outwrestling Hendo.. wtf?


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Come ooooooooonnnnn!!!


----------



## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

ladies and hentleman

We Have A majority DRAW!!!!!


----------



## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

raise01:


----------



## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Hendo won the 1st 3, shogun the last 2. Decision for Hendo if he makes it.


----------



## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

10-8 rua round 5 imo


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

box said:


> Hendo won the 1st 3, shogun the last 2. Decision for Hendo if he makes it.


Draw, this last round is a 10-8


----------



## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

First time I saw so many mounts in one round.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Damn! I think Hendo takes the decision.


Round 6!


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Bad fight was entertaining.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Call it a draw and let's do it again!

Henderson vs. Shogun II would sell HUGE.


----------



## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Hendo could have had a 10-8 also.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

I say hendo


----------



## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

draw.


----------



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Who the hell won? I can't remember s***!! Awesome fight!


----------



## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

Top top fight. I thought Hendo would be the better conditioned man, though. Could be a draw, a la Edgar vs Maynard 2


----------



## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

Holy shit? Hendo? Rua? Draw? Us the fans!!!


----------



## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

Lol at Hendo's corner telling him to put his hands up to influence the judges.


----------



## Hail the Potato (Jul 29, 2010)

Its a draw.
ROUND 6. 
j/k

I can't believe this fight never happened until now. Can't wait for the rematch. There has to be a rematch

Edit: I had credits on Shogun, but I agree with the decision. Hendo won 3 rounds to Shoguns 2 rounds, and they both had a 10-8 round.


----------



## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

I have no words. Best fight of all time.


----------



## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

This fight may be a draw, that last round was definitely a 10-8.


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

DRAW! PLEASE!

One of the greatest fights of all time


----------



## AmEagle (Jun 13, 2007)

I'll say it. Best fight I've ever seen.


----------



## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

That was one exhausting fight. Felt like I was in there with them.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

10-8 round 3 hendo
10-8 round 5 shogun
round 4 shogun
round 1 and 2 hendo


----------



## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

I would give Shogun the last 2 rounds only 
Overall I think he won the fight, but having each round scored separately gives the edge to Hendo IMO


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

The Dark Knight said:


> That was one exhausting fight. Felt like I was in there with them.


Adrenaline rollercoaster!


----------



## box (Oct 15, 2006)

I think Hendo did the majority of the damage, especially while they weren't gassed for the first 3 rounds. ******* amazing fight, both are warlords.


----------



## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

UFC_OWNS said:


> 10-8 round 3 hendo
> 10-8 round 5 shogun
> round 4 shogun
> round 1 and 2 hendo


This is what I have too.


YES WAR HENDO!!!!


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Henderson gets gifted another decision...


----------



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

WTF 3 round scores?!!??!?!? FFS!

My bad, heard it wrong


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

haha has bobby cooper weighed in yet?  i imagined he was going nuts during this fight


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Best fight of all time. Period.


----------



## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

Felt a lil bad for Shogun because, win or no win, that was his greatest performance EVER. Always knew he was talented but always ripped on him about his heart. Now I look like an idiot.


----------



## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

That should have been a draw.


----------



## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

Correct judging.


----------



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

So - who got FOTN?


----------



## otronegro (Aug 23, 2011)

raise01:Shogun is my hero


----------



## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

Dang I feel bad for Shogun.


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Let NO ONE EVER question Shogun's heart and determination again. He took more punishment against Jones and against Hendo than any man should be able to


----------



## RHYNO2K (Feb 4, 2007)

not happy about the outcome but that was the best fight I´ve seen in my life


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

That was one of the greatest fights I have ever seen. I thought it should be a draw just because it was so close as an overall fight. Unfortunatly on paper it should probably go to Hendo heheh.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Shogun can barely talk, his lips are swollen to hell.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Silver lining, peeps. Rampage vs. Shogun in Japan!


----------



## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

BWoods said:


> That should have been a draw.


Agreed completely. Hendo 10-9 in all the first 3, Shogun 10-9 in 4, Shogun 10-8 in 5th


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

too bad bonnar-kingsbury is getting fotn


----------



## box (Oct 15, 2006)

420atalon said:


> Henderson gets gifted another decision...


I can see how it could have been a draw, but gifted the win? That last round seems to blind you from the first 3 that Hendo dominated, with a arguable 10-8 round 3 to boot for Hendo.


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

gazh said:


> Correct judging.


How? That last round was the definition of a 10-8 round... Hendo did nothing, he could barely even hold onto Shogun...


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Silver lining, peeps. Rampage vs. Shogun in Japan!


Shogun vs Hendo II you mean. :thumb02:


----------



## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

Feel bad for Shogun. But it was an incredible fight. I didnt want to see either lose.


----------



## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

That was hard to score for me because after all that, I really forgot to keep track. One of the best fights ever. That should have main evented fox!


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

TraMaI said:


> Agreed completely. Hendo 10-9 in all the first 3, Shogun 10-9 in 4, Shogun 10-8 in 5th


round 3 was 10-8 for hendo for sure


----------



## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

props to ref for no stopping the fight either.... he couldve stepped in plenty of times


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Budhisten said:


> So - who got FOTN?


lol good one


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Silver lining, peeps. Rampage vs. Shogun in Japan!


Rampage gets murdered in that fight, just as bad as the first time


----------



## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

That last round should be a 10-7. Sorry but Hendo did ... NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING and got mounted at least half a dozen times. I'm not saying its a conspiracy but ffs that needs to be a 10-7


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

box said:


> I can see how it could have been a draw, but gifted the win? That last round seems to blind you from the first 3 that Hendo dominated, with a arguable 10-8 round 3 to boot for Hendo.


Gifted the win because it was an obvious draw you can have. Round 3 wasn't a 10-8, round 5 definitely was though. Hendo layed there like a fish while Shogun beat on him...


----------



## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> Agreed completely. Hendo 10-9 in all the first 3, Shogun 10-9 in 4, Shogun 10-8 in 5th


Exactly how I had it. Sure Dan had a great round 3 but Shogun got out of the position and threatened with a kneebar, then finished the round on the feet. I would have called it 10-8 if he were taking shots the entire round like Hendo did and finished on his back.


----------



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Sad Shogun  He fought his damn heart out in the 4th and 5th... But the outcome had to be either a Hendo win or a draw... I scored it as a draw but very close, it all came down to wether the last round was 10-9 or 10-8...


----------



## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Close fight, I would lean to Dan winning (agree with decision) just barely though. If it was a draw I wouldnt have objected. If Shogun had any explosiveness left in that last round he would have been able to KO him. Makes you respect Anderson Silva BJJ, Shogun had several positions similar to how Silva subbed Dan but couldnt finish.


----------



## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

If this isn't fight of the year I don't know what it takes to become it.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

oldfan said:


> I think Hendo can take him down anytime he wants and beat him up on the ground. Somewhere along the line Shoguns ground game got a little over rated.
> 
> Unfortunately I think Henderson has too much pride to fight smart and he makes this a stand up war that anybody could win.
> 
> My prediction: Shogun comes out strong but can't finish and gasses. henderson wins after taking a beating that would have killed Rampage.:confused05:





BobbyCooper said:


> Shogun is a complete different animal!!
> 
> If it was a 3 rounder I would give Hendo a small chance due to his Wrestling ability.. but in a 5 Rounder against a 100% Shogun Rua? No chance!!
> 
> ...


 You really should consider taking a more casual approach to the sport Bobby.












like me


----------



## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

10-7's don't exist and people need to stop talking about them, tell me when was the last time you saw a 10-7 in MMA or the UFC matter of fact. 

I had Hendo winning, and people are just butt hurt that Shogun lost. Tell me the last time you saw a fighter in full mount for the entire 5 minutes and not finish a fight.


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

I will have to rewatch round 3. Either way Shogun could not have won.


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

420atalon said:


> Gifted the win because it was an obvious draw you can have. Round 3 wasn't a 10-8, round 5 definitely was though. Hendo layed there like a fish while Shogun beat on him...


well yeah, but despite offering no offense, i dont think he was ever as close to being finished in 5 as shogun was in 3. he was exhausted but not nearly unconscious like rua.


----------



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Here's some interesting numbers for you guys:



> @CompuStrike
> Rua outlanded Hendo 90-58 in total power strikes, had 5 takedowns and 7 dominant positions.


By this Rua was a clear winner? Funny sport that way


----------



## arkanoydz (Mar 15, 2010)

f that, i had it as a draw.

that being said, wtf is up with shogun? he looked way too slow - he really needs to train in the US in one of the better gyms. 

i noticed him being real slow even vs griffin, and this time it was even worse.

i really hope shogun takes this as a lesson and does himself justice - make a change in his training, diet, whatever it takes to maximize his obvious talent and heart. 

i disagree that this was his greatest achievement - he gave some pretty legendary performances in Pride, and not even his best UFC performances compare, in pace, to the punishment he dished out in Pride.

disappointed, but hopeful.


----------



## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

Spec0688 said:


> 10-7's don't exist and people need to stop talking about them, tell me when was the last time you saw a 10-7 in MMA or the UFC matter of fact.
> 
> I had Hendo winning, and people are just butt hurt that Shogun lost. Tell me the last time you saw a fighter in full mount for the entire 5 minutes and not finish a fight.


10-7's don't exist?Khalib Starnes begs to differ and Kyle Kingsbury got a 25 in his fight tonight


----------



## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

yeah im not a fan of 10-7 either.... especially when there are so few rounds in MMA


----------



## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Budhisten said:


> Sad Shogun  He fought his damn heart out in the 4th and 5th... But the outcome had to be either a Hendo win or a draw... I scored it as a draw but very close, *it all came down to wether the last round was 10-9 or 10-8...*


Is that even a debate?


----------



## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

I thought that Shogun really hurt Dan in the 4th round. Last time I saw Dan hurt that way was his fight with Anderson Silva. Shogun didn't go after him aggressively after he hurt him which I'm guessing is because of his cardio. Dan could have recovered and played possum for a while, not sure.


----------



## Hail the Potato (Jul 29, 2010)

TraMaI said:


> Agreed completely. Hendo 10-9 in all the first 3, Shogun 10-9 in 4, Shogun 10-8 in 5th


I can see this. The round Hendo would have gotten the 10-8, Shogun did come back at the end of the round, and my intial thought at the end of that round was that Shogun did enough to keep it from being 10-8. But its a close call.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Budhisten said:


> Here's some interesting numbers for you guys:
> 
> 
> 
> By this Rua was a clear winner? Funny sport that way


Round by round.

If that was Japan scoring I score that fight a draw no questions asked and I'm punching anyone who doesn't.


----------



## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

i had it as a possible draw, but not a gift or robbery, but god dam! that was an awesome fight!


----------



## box (Oct 15, 2006)

420atalon said:


> Gifted the win because it was an obvious draw you can have. Round 3 wasn't a 10-8, round 5 definitely was though. Hendo layed there like a fish while Shogun beat on him...


True, but Hendo had shogun almost Ko'd about 3 times, I never saw Hendo hurt in that last round, just tired. Give Shogun the round, but if what Hendo did while they were fresh wasn't a 10-8 where he rocked Shogun over and over, I wouldn't give a gassed gnp a 10-8 either, just my thoughts on that.


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Bravo! I was hoping for a draw so they could rematch. 

Hendo vs JBJ.

Shogun vs Rampage II. Now is the time.

HOLY...what heart. Take that much damage and to oomeback. If there was overtime Shogun might have taken it. That made my night x 10!!!


----------



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Both Hendo and Shogun are heading to the hospital BTW, they will not be at the post-fight presser


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Budhisten said:


> Here's some interesting numbers for you guys:
> 
> 
> 
> By this Rua was a clear winner? Funny sport that way


the ten point must system, though. most of those dominant positions and a significant portion of the strikes were the last round, which realistically will only net him a maximum of 2 points over dan for the round.


----------



## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Budhisten said:


> Both Hendo and Shogun are heading to the hospital BTW, they will not be at the post-fight presser


Link to the post presser, please!
I know it's 5am but i can't sleep right now. :thumb02:


----------



## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

Henderson absolutely proved me wrong tonight, that was an epic fight.


----------



## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Budhisten said:


> Here's some interesting numbers for you guys:
> 
> 
> 
> By this Rua was a clear winner? Funny sport that way


It's crazy. This fight will be debated about for years and years. I had it a draw, leaning towards Rua due to latter rounds making me forget Hendo's winning in the first 3 rounds.



Sousa said:


> 10-7's don't exist?Khalib Starnes begs to differ and Kyle Kingsbury got a 25 in his fight tonight


Two 10-8's?


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

why would round 5 be a 10-8 ??

Shogun couldn't finish or seriously threaten a totally exhausted 41 year old man. He was damn lucky he happened to fall on top.


----------



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

AmdM said:


> Link to the post presser, please!
> I know it's 5am but i can't sleep right now. :thumb02:


Here mate:

http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/11/19/ufc-139-post-fight-press-conference-video/

Don't know when it starts though  It usually ranges from 5 minutes to 50 minutes


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I don't much care for the LHW Champion, but you have to respect him for finishing Shogun when Hendo threw out everything but the kitchen sink and couldn't put him away. I'm not sure I believe Hendo offers JBJ much of anything, especially in the later rounds... I'd much rather see Shogun vs. Henderson II.

That said, let Rua demolish Jackson and boost his spirits


----------



## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

K R Y said:


> It's crazy. This fight will be debated about for years and years. I had it a draw, leaning towards Rua due to latter rounds making me forget Hendo's winning in the first 3 rounds.
> 
> 
> 
> Two 10-8's?


Yea got two 10-8's


----------



## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

I can live with that decision, awesome fight, both guys looked great. I feel like I got my money's worth on that card..


----------



## Harbinger (Mar 3, 2007)

If it came down to a fight round being scored 10-7 then the ref should be slapped because the fight should have been stopped before the round was over.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

K R Y said:


> It's crazy. This fight will be debated about for years and years. I had it a draw, leaning towards Rua due to latter rounds making me forget Hendo's winning in the first 3 rounds.
> 
> 
> 
> Two 10-8's?


thank you KRY you once again have fallen victim to yours truly in main event betting:thumb02: at least this one was close unlike penn-diaz


----------



## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

oldfan said:


> why would round 5 be a 10-8 ??
> 
> Shogun couldn't finish or seriously threaten a totally exhausted 41 year old man. He was damn lucky he happened to fall on top.


You're probably just taking the piss but I'll bite. Shogun had like 5 or 6 mounts and while not being able to strike hard enough to really put Hendo out, he was landing over and over and over. Its laughable to suggest that round was a 10-9.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

box said:


> True, but Hendo had shogun almost Ko'd about 3 times, I never saw Hendo hurt in that last round, just tired. Give Shogun the round, but if what Hendo did while they were fresh wasn't a 10-8 where he rocked Shogun over and over, I wouldn't give a gassed gnp a 10-8 either, just my thoughts on that.


Hendo was almost KO'd in the 4th though. I think if Shogun had the energy to put together a rush Hendo would've been grass. He was wobbling around with his hands COMPLETELY down. Shogun was at least defending himself when he got clocked.


----------



## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

oldfan said:


> why would round 5 be a 10-8 ??
> 
> Shogun couldn't finish or seriously threaten a totally exhausted 41 year old man. He was damn lucky he happened to fall on top.


Because Rua did everything in that round. He didn't just fall on top of him either. He mounted and landed shots multiple times while Hendo tried to get out of it. That round was all Rua. 

Awesome fight either way. Draw or Hendo win, we the fans were the real winners! :thumb02:


----------



## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Hendo was almost KO'd in the 4th though. I think if Shogun had the energy to put together a rush Hendo would've been grass. He was wobbling around with his hands COMPLETELY down. Shogun was at least defending himself when he got clocked.


And if Hendo had more energy when he knocked Shogun down before Shogun did anything he would of finished him first... Whats your point???

Not to mention to only reason he was tired was because he beat Shogun to a bloody pulp


----------



## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Hendo's best round always was and will be his first round. After that, the guy is 40+. what do you expect? Ironically this fight has convinced me even more, Machida will upset Jones, and go on to defeat Henderson for his first title defense. But I digress.


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

oldfan said:


> why would round 5 be a 10-8 ??
> 
> Shogun couldn't finish or seriously threaten a totally exhausted 41 year old man. He was damn lucky he happened to fall on top.


Finishing has nothing to do scoring. Shogun mounted him like five times, beat his face in and completely controlled him. 10 - 8 perfect example. 

But seriously gtfo of this thread with that negativity. That was the greatest fight ever with two warriors wrecking eachother like they were Rocky and Apollo.


----------



## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

oldfan said:


> why would round 5 be a 10-8 ??
> 
> Shogun couldn't finish or seriously threaten a totally exhausted 41 year old man. He was damn lucky he happened to fall on top.


What did Hendo do in round 5? Apart from get beaten up, and mounted about 5 times. Shogun couldn't finish because he was exhausted himself. Hendo couldn't finish him either after landing flush 4-5 times with his 'H-Bomb' when he was fresh. Not sure how going for a take down and securing top position is luck either?

This fight's going to eclipse Silva/Sonnen debating for ages :thumb02:


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Machida Karate said:


> And if Hendo had more energy when he knocked Shogun down before Shogun did anything he would of finished him first... Whats your point???
> 
> Not to mention to only reason he was tired was because he beat Shogun to a bloody pulp


No? Hendo failed to finish because he failed to finish. Shogun defended well, grabbed half guard and grabbed his underhook and hid his head.

Hendo was throwing bombs the whole time he just couldn't land. Shogun didn't finish him because he couldn't THROW bombs. Hendo was standing right in front of him with his hands down, wobbling around like a drunk and Shogun couldn't get any real steam under his punches. And Hendo always gets tired..


----------



## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

The image of a bloodied and battered Shogun literally being out on his feet in the third, and then coming back to dominate the championship rounds, I have no words. WHAT A FIGHT!


----------



## Hail the Potato (Jul 29, 2010)

Harbinger said:


> If it came down to a fight round being scored 10-7 then the ref should be slapped because the fight should have been stopped before the round was over.


I agree that there definitely wasn't a 10-7 round tonight. 
But I think the fact that a 10-7 can't really happen is stupid. I mean, why call it the "10-point must" system when you only use 3 numbers? That really grinds my gears


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Hail the Potato said:


> I agree that there definitely wasn't a 10-7 round tonight.
> But I think the fact that a 10-7 can't really happen is stupid. I mean, why call it the "10-point must" system when you only use 3 numbers? That really grinds my gears


It keeps any one round from overpowering the others too much in the overall score.


----------



## the ultimate (Mar 5, 2007)

Had it 47-47. Fantastic fight and credit to both guys for an absolute classic.


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

HexRei said:


> It keeps any one round from overpowering the others too much in the overall score.


Not really, might as well be a 2 point system. 2 points for the winner, 1 for the loser unless its really bad then no points. Does the same thing as the current system...


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

K R Y said:


> What did Hendo do in round 5? Apart from get beaten up, and mounted about 5 times. Shogun couldn't finish because he was exhausted himself. Hendo couldn't finish him either after landing flush 4-5 times with his 'H-Bomb' when he was fresh. Not sure how going for a take down and securing top position is luck either?
> 
> This fight's going to eclipse Silva/Sonnen debating for ages :thumb02:


The point is, what did Shogun do? And when did 10-8s get so popular anyway?

to me, 10-8 = Damn! the ref should have stopped that!! 

10-7 = he got KTFO

if Hendo had an ounce left in him he would have just stood up. Rua had nothing either. Not a 10-8 to me.


----------



## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

10-8 to me is total domination. Which round 5 was. Hendo offered no offence what so ever, was mounted for 75% of the round and getting pummeled through out.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Meh, I really don't see the point in arguing. The result is the result. We were just treated to one of the greatest fights in MMA history, a fight that was razor thin, and a fight that could go differently a second time around. I felt it should have been a draw, but it doesn't lessen the fight for me and I'm certainly not going to gripe about it. Just enjoy it, lads. We're rarely privy to something that special.


----------



## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

I see it like this:
10-9 advantage/slight advantage
10-8 Bid advantage, dominates all round
10-7 Ref should have stopped it.


----------



## arkanoydz (Mar 15, 2010)

can't believe they gave FOTN to Wanderlei vs Le....................


----------



## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

The reason I don't really see it at 10-8, but see nothing wrong with it being a 10-8, is because Shogun was in a dominant position for basically 5 minutes and didn't really capitalize with a finish. When you're in such a dominant position, you should do more damage. Hendo is no where near being stopped, where as Shogun was on the very edge in round 3.


----------



## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

I honestly feel this fight topped Griffin-Bonnar I, Liddell-Wanderlei, might be the post-fight adrelaline but for me I have to say this is my favorite UFC fight of all time.


----------



## blang (Jun 21, 2009)

The only arguement anyone has is a draw. Which I would have scored it. It was the best fight I have seen in years. I was rooting for hendo but after a fight like that I hate to see a loser. A rematch is needed


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

arkanoydz said:


> can't believe they gave FOTN to Wanderlei vs Le....................


they gave it to both fights for some reason


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Spec0688 said:


> The reason I don't really see it at 10-8, but see nothing wrong with it being a 10-8, is because Shogun was in a dominant position for basically 5 minutes and didn't really capitalize with a finish. When you're in such a dominant position, you should do more damage. Hendo is no where near being stopped, where as Shogun was on the very edge in round 3.


Being rocked isn't what determines a 10-8 round. Its getting absolutely dominated in every regard. Sure Hendo got Shogun good in the 3rd and had him in some danger but that was only a small part of an otherwise rather close round, really wasn't much different then Tibau vs Dos Anjos round 2... 

Round 5 was all Shogun, Hendo looked like he was going to die of exhaustion and Shogun was teeing off on him. If Shogun wasn't half dead himself he would have easily finished the fight that round.


----------



## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...*Hendo & Shogun---Incredible!* That's what you call a war! A master chess game of MMA. What a rollercoaster ride! Shogun was badly busted up, bleeding like a faucet. Hendo's H-bomb almost finished the fight in the 3rd. Both guys were running on heart and instinct throughout the fight. It was one of the most complete MMA fights and war of attrition I've ever seen. Good decision for Hendo. He won the 1st 3 rds. Did a lot of early damage. 
...*How about ol' Wandy!! Another spectatular fight! I never thought I would ever see another vintage, brutal Muay Thai finish from Wanderlie ever again. Hello! Man- he looked great and fought a smart fight.* His knees were amazing. That last knee from Wandy was brutal and flush. Good stoppage. Cung was finished. Amazing. Nice crushing submission win for Faber. He looked great and landed that bingo uppercut that was the beginning of the end. Again, watching Wandy bring back his past brought me the biggest smile to my face. What an awesome finish by the axe murderer...


----------



## AmEagle (Jun 13, 2007)

That fight was a roller coaster I didn't want to get off. Shogun's heart and determination shined in this fight.


----------



## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

Round 5 was definitely a 10-8 for Shogun, that can't be disputed. Hendo would have to have done something, anything, for it to have been 10-9. I would have scored it a draw, too.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Dana is giving 2 FOTN's. Good move:thumbsup:


----------



## blang (Jun 21, 2009)

Everyone I'm sure can't stand the saying u can't leave it in the hands of the judges, but it seems most everyone had it 3-2 hendo. It came down to a 10-8 round witch u really can't argue. I would have scored a draw but at least u didn't get a judge like in the the story fight that gave it to him 29-28



The Dark Knight said:


> Definitely have to take back what I said..Shogun does have some inner strength, man...he is gassed, busted up and hurt, yet still going for it. Terrific fight.


Got all new respect for shogun. Was rooting for hendo but thought it should have been a draw. One of the best fights ever


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

blang said:


> Everyone I'm sure can't stand the saying u can't leave it in the hands of the judges, but it seems most everyone had it 3-2 hendo. It came down to a 10-8 round witch u really can't argue. I would have scored a draw but at least u didn't get a judge like in the the story fight that gave it to him 29-28


Dunno, getting mount several times in a round while your opponent literally does nothing sounds like a 10-8 to me.


----------



## blang (Jun 21, 2009)

Either way it is a loss grabbing for a draw


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

MikeHawk said:


> Dunno, getting mount several times in a round while your opponent literally does nothing sounds like a 10-8 to me.


c'mon y'all and the 10-8 stuff. If he had "lterally done nothing" then Shogun would have only had to get mount once. 

If anything other than 10-9 maybe it was a 9-8 because they were both beaten by then.


----------



## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Hell of a fight, neither man employed a great strategy and so it became a war of epic proportions. For everyone saying the 5th round was not a 10-8 because Shogun couldn't finish Hendo, that is one of the dumbest things I have read on this board. If he did finish Hendo, the round wouldn't have to be scored, 10-8s are for completely dominant rounds, which the 5th was.

Personally I felt it should have been a draw, Hendo getting getting the 48-47 sucks because he's not guaranteed a title shot off it, and Rua has another loss on his record when he repeatedly overcame one of the most fatal punches in MMA, then rocked Hendo a few times and owned him on the ground for two rounds. Shogun was so close to finishing that fight, as was Hendo earlier on, but that was hell of a comeback.

Shogun had more blood on his face and was the first to get rocked but ultimately he landed many more strikes, many more takedowns, had more dominant positions and was the aggressor through hell and high water. Both men showed incredible heart and resilience, Hendo did a great job but Rua outfought him.

It's all good though, I'm sure both their next fights will be crazy match-ups.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

I told you Shogun wouldn't KO Dan and I told you Shogun wouldn't be in good shape, although I thought Dan would come in better shape like his fight with rampage


----------



## drey2k (Jul 9, 2009)

I had it

Round 1: 10-9 Hendo
Round 2: 10-9 Hendo
Round 3: 10-8 Hendo
Round 4: 10-9 Shogun
Round 5: 10-8 Shogun

47-46 Hendo

Pride FC rules though I would have given it to Shogun (much higher importance placed on later rounds)

Shogun officially has top 3 chin in MMA and amazing heart


----------



## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

> I told you Shogun wouldn't KO Dan and I told you Shogun wouldn't be in good shape, although I thought Dan would come in better shape like his fight with rampage


You make me laugh. 'I told you he wouldn't KO Dan...', this is MMA mate and you need to up your IQ. You just watched two of the most dangerous fighters in the sport slug it out for 25 minutes, they both dished out more than most can take and both were still standing at the final bell, and you think you can say they are not in good shape?

I doubt the day I see you on my TV fighting like that, have some respect.


----------



## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

What a ******* awesome fight!!


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

SM33 said:


> You make me laugh. 'I told you he wouldn't KO Dan...', this is MMA mate and you need to up your IQ. You just watched two of the most dangerous fighters in the sport slug it out for 25 minutes, they both dished out more than most can take and both were still standing at the final bell, and you think you can say they are not in good shape?
> 
> I doubt the day I see you on my TV fighting like that, have some respect.


Someones on the defensive arent they? how about you shut your fooking mouth before you talk to me like that again, and you were one saying yeah you know bro hendos gonna be ko'd by shogun for the first time, and no they werent in fooking good shape otherwise there would have been clear KO's like when dan had his hands down and shogun too or dan too tired to defend tds or get tds. And yeah if I do get on tv fighting I won't be thinking of sensitive d bags like yourself misrepresenting what I am saying, if you look at my sig you would see I have respect for pretty much every mma fighter even the ones I hate. And btw I have a better chance of fighting on tv than a keyboard warrior like you so if your gonna fly off the handle like that again make sure you have a good enough argument to justify it. You brought this message on yourself.


----------



## Mshadows69 (Nov 30, 2006)

Only just watched the fight, i thought Shogun won tbh. Simply because the last two rounds were so one sided that both could of been 10-8's.

Awesome fight though, but off this performance i still think Jones or Anderson beats Henderson.


----------



## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

> Someones on the defensive arent they? how about you shut your fooking mouth before you talk to me like that again, and you were one saying yeah you know bro hendos gonna be ko'd by shogun for the first time, and no they werent in fooking good shape otherwise there would have been clear KO's like when dan had his hands down and shogun too or dan too tired to defend tds or get tds. And yeah if I do get on tv fighting I won't be thinking of sensitive d bags like yourself misrepresenting what I am saying, if you look at my sig you would see I have respect for pretty much every mma fighter even the ones I hate. And btw I have a better chance of fighting on tv than a keyboard warrior like you so if your gonna fly off the handle like that again make sure you have a good enough argument to justify it. You brought this message on yourself.


Sure, I'm the one flying off the handle... I've said nothing to offend you. 'Defensive', good word.

Do you have any idea how many knockout punches were landed in this fight? That is the very reason they were both tired, many people can run a marathon but do you know many who can finish one while being punched in the head along way? This fight was a crazy display of endurance.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

SM33 said:


> Sure, I'm the one flying off the handle... I've said nothing to offend you. 'Defensive', good word.
> 
> Do you have any idea how many knockout punches were landed in this fight? That is the very reason they were both tired, many people can run a marathon but do you know many who can finish one while being punched in the head along way? This fight was a crazy display of endurance.


Wrong have you seen Henderson vs Shields? how about Edgar vs Maynard? Shields was battered into oblivion first round and survived but he was fresh the next 4 rounds, same with edgar fight both times this year, if you havent been hit and hit hard then dont comment on what gasses you out is big punches because that is not true maybe lots of body shots but they werent in that match either. Oh and Nick Diaz can run a marathon while getting punched in the head.


----------



## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

> Wrong have you seen Henderson vs Shields? how about Edgar vs Maynard? Shields was battered into oblivion first round and survived but he was fresh the next 4 rounds, same with edgar fight both times this year, if you havent been hit and hit hard then dont comment on what gasses you out is big punches because that is not true maybe lots of body shots but they werent in that match either. Oh and Nick Diaz can run a marathon while getting punched in the head.


Those fights are ridiculous comparisons, Edgar came back from 1 round of getting dropped, Shogun came back from three rounds' punishment and stomped Hendo for the last two. You're talking about a guy who's KO'd his last 3 opponents in 2 weight classes, and a guy who has 17 KOs in 20 wins, physically prepared people do not normally do well against these two, let alone anyone unfit. They were ready for a 5 round war, and that is what you witnessed.

Yes, Nick Diaz is another fighter with great cardio, crazy heart and toughness, well observed. That does not make it commonplace, Diaz fights are regularly awesome and Rua vs Hendo was out of this world.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

SM33 said:


> Those fights are ridiculous comparisons, Edgar came back from 1 round of getting dropped, Shogun came back from three rounds' punishment and stomped Hendo for the last two.
> 
> Yes, Nick Diaz is another fighter with great cardio, crazy heart and toughness, well observed. That does not make it commonplace, Diaz fights are regularly awesome and Rua vs Hendo was out of this world.


What? I was talking about how damage that isn't to the body doesn't drain cardio, only broken noses stifle your breathing that may lapse your cardio


----------



## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

> What? I was talking about how damage that isn't to the body doesn't drain cardio, only broken noses stifle your breathing that may lapse your cardio


Yes it does, you talk about 'cardio' like its something you buy in a shop with a free guage, this is a stupid debate. Fighting hard for 25 minutes, on the feet and on the ground, taking shots from Rua/Hendo, right to the final bell = well prepared fighter.

What more do you want from these guys?


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

SM33 said:


> Yes it does, you talk about 'cardio' like its something you buy in a shop with a free guage, this is a stupid debate. Fighting hard for 25 minutes, on the feet and on the ground, taking shots from Rua/Hendo, right to the final bell = well prepared fighter.
> 
> What more do you want from these guys?


I want these guys to fight 5 rounds with their hands up not like a child could tackle them over, jones vs shogun, what cost shogun that fight? his opening bell cardio was abysmal and he was destroyed, this time he showed a lot more ticker but still not enough for 5 rounds, and its not a stupid debate because I base my info on personal experiences and known fighters and fights where damage does not affect cardio. Do you think hunt and rothwell came in shape for their fight? it was nearly the same except it was 3 rounds?


----------



## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Ok... If none of Rua or Hendo's punches had actually landed in this fight, do you honestly think they would not have looked fresher in the 5th?

Try not to embarrass yourself when answering this.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

SM33 said:


> Ok... If none of Rua or Hendo's punches had actually landed in this fight, do you honestly think they would not have looked fresher in the 5th?
> 
> Try not to embarrass yourself when answering this.


Only if the punches missed weren't to the body or to fracture the nasal would they look fresh, if your just talking leg kicks and face shots not affecting breathing then yes it would have been exactly the same


----------



## Shoegazer (Jun 23, 2007)

This fight is getting a lot of "greatest of all time" talk, and for good reason. For me, this was the easiest GOAT contender to score that I can remember - no razor close rounds, point deductions, or anything like that. Just a clear winner for each round. I was surprised to hear the judges score it differently and to see all the debate going on here. 

10-9 Hendo
10-9 Hendo
10-9 Hendo
10-9 Rua
10-8 Rua

47-47 draw.


----------



## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

I suddenly forgot why I was against 5 round fights in non-title fights. 

Great fight, I had it 47-47 but I guess I can see Henderson taking it.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Hendo definitely won!! :thumbsup:

1. 10/9 Hendo
2. 10/9 Hendo
3. 10/8 Hendo
4. 10/9 Shogun
5. 10/8 Shogun

I scored it the exact same way!


Enter the Dragon :hug:


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> Hendo definitely won!! :thumbsup:
> 
> 1. 10/9 Hendo
> 2. 10/9 Hendo
> ...


but you were wrong again, do me a favor pick gsp to beat diaz and silva to beat sonnen and overeem to beat lesnar and machida to beat jones. thanks


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> but you were wrong again, do me a favor pick gsp to beat diaz and silva to beat sonnen and overeem to beat lesnar and machida to beat jones. thanks


Enter the Dragon baby :hug:

No Shogun vs. Lyoto III in a LONGGGGG Time hahhaaha :thumb02:


----------



## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Can anyone explain to me how round 3 was a 10-8? Really? Yes Shogun got rocked and close to being finished. Does that mean every round a guy comes close to being stopped is a 10-8 against him? Hendo clearly won the round but Shogun did enough in the round to completely discredit a 10-8 scoring in my eyes.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

K R Y said:


> Can anyone explain to me how round 3 was a 10-8? Really? Yes Shogun got rocked and close to being finished. Does that mean every round a guy comes close to being stopped is a 10-8 against him? Hendo clearly won the round but Shogun did enough in the round to completely discredit a 10-8 scoring in my eyes.


10-8 defiantly warranted even more warranted then round 5, he killed shogun with power shots and there was nearly a stoppage, that round was worse then edgar-maynard 2


----------



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

What I don't get is how one judge had Bonnar winning 30-25 but round 5 of this fight wasn't a 10-8 for Shogun?


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

K R Y said:


> Can anyone explain to me how round 3 was a 10-8? Really? Yes Shogun got rocked and close to being finished. Does that mean every round a guy comes close to being stopped is a 10-8 against him? Hendo clearly won the round but Shogun did enough in the round to completely discredit a 10-8 scoring in my eyes.


What else is a 10/8 dude?? :confused03:

Shogun laying on you? haha


----------



## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

Shoegazer said:


> This fight is getting a lot of "greatest of all time" talk, and for good reason. For me, this was the easiest GOAT contender to score that I can remember - no razor close rounds, point deductions, or anything like that. Just a clear winner for each round. I was surprised to hear the judges score it differently and to see all the debate going on here.
> 
> 10-9 Hendo
> 10-9 Hendo
> ...


This post exactly !!

Fight was a draw in my eyes and they should be doing it again. Sensational stuff last night, probably woke my neighbours up at 4.30am going all UFC mental


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

GlasgowKiss said:


> This post exactly !!
> 
> Fight was a draw in my eyes and they should be doing it again. Sensational stuff last night, probably woke my neighbours up at 4.30am going all UFC mental


Lol so wrong dude :confused05:

Shogun gets a 10/8 for laying on you and Hendo almost puts him away for en entire round and gets a 10/9?

You better check those rules son :confused03:


----------



## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> Lol so wrong dude :confused05:
> 
> Shogun gets a 10/8 for laying on you and Hendo almost puts him away for en entire round and gets a 10/9?
> 
> You better check those rules son :confused03:


Shogun did a little more than lay on Dan. Try to disguise your hate a little bit Bobby, come on now. =P


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> Lol so wrong dude :confused05:
> 
> Shogun gets a 10/8 for laying on you and Hendo almost puts him away for en entire round and gets a 10/9?
> 
> You better check those rules son :confused03:


Bobby and I agree on what we saw!!!!



It's like Fahrvergnügen man!




:cool04::cool04::happy04:


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

BWoods said:


> Shogun did a little more than lay on Dan. Try to disguise your hate a little bit Bobby, come on now. =P


he layed on him from exhausting dude :confused05:

Hendo put him away almsot several times in that round alone lol

Shogun was at no point in time being close to finish Hendo.

Hendo did so several times.


----------



## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

If I wanted your opinion, I'd have given it to you, Bobby.

The rantings and ravings of a demented lunatic carry no weight, I'm sure that if a sane poster wished to call me on it, I might be game for a discussion.

Ah, phew, Oldfan is here !!


----------



## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

UFC_OWNS said:


> 10-8 defiantly warranted even more warranted then round 5, he killed shogun with power shots and there was nearly a stoppage, that round was worse then edgar-maynard 2


Except Edgar didn't come back until the next round. Shogun landed upper cuts and kicks before being rocked. Then, went for a heel hook, takes his back and lands a few shots.

Esdgar however got beaten up the entire round. 

Hendo did nearly finish Shogun, but there are 4 other minutes to that round.



BobbyCooper said:


> What else is a 10/8 dude?? :confused03:
> 
> Shogun laying on you? haha


You think that was 'laying'? Amazing. Transitioned to full mount 4-5 times, landed TONS of shots as well, a good 60-70+ and smothered Hendo. Hendo had absolutely no answer as he was exhausted. Shogun at least got out of a dangerous position in the third round.

Let me guess he was laying on Machida to but Machida decided to have a little nap so Rua would get bored of punching him in the head?

mmajunkie scored round 3 10-9 and round 5 10-8. I trust them and mmamania far more than judges.

The easiest draw I've ever seen. Fight metric has is a draw under the ten must, and a Rua win under their system.

You're both getting blinded by the fact that Rua got rocked. You're failing even view the rest of the round outside of that 1 minute Shogun was in trouble.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

GlasgowKiss said:


> If I wanted your opinion, I'd have given it to you, Bobby.
> 
> The rantings and ravings of a demented lunatic carry no weight, I'm sure that if a sane poster wished to call me on it, I might be game for a discussion.
> 
> Ah, phew, Oldfan is here !!


you spread lies around dude :laugh:

stop it lol



K R Y said:


> Except Edgar didn't come back until the next round. Shogun landed upper cuts and kicks before being rocked. Then, went for a heel hook, takes his back and lands a few shots.
> 
> Esdgar however got beaten up the entire round.
> 
> ...


Machida never lost to Shogun dude

recheck your MMA please!!


you just mma junkie more then me? Hilarious :laugh:

You better believe the judges lol

They were right there :confused05:


rocked?? Hell No!!

Shogun was badly hanging in there and almost got put AWAY several times!!

Shogun wasn't even close at finishing him lol


A rua win?? hahaha after losing the first 3? Hilarious


----------



## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

A Rua win under fight metrics scoring system, which gives more emphasis on latter round performances. Under the unified rules it was a draw (or should of been).

Machida never lost to Shogun? That right there is why trying to discuss MMA with you is absolutely pointless.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

GlasgowKiss said:


> If I wanted your opinion, I'd have given it to you, Bobby.
> 
> The rantings and ravings of a demented lunatic carry no weight, I'm sure that if a sane poster wished to call me on it, I might be game for a discussion.
> 
> Ah, phew, Oldfan is here !!


I may not qualify as sane but I'm with bobby this time.

Shogun just barely had enough in him to stay on top of a 41 year old man who was about 2 heart beats/minute away from having a heart attack in the cage. *He inflicted no damage*. every time he tried, Dan escaped mount.

at that point my boxer puppy could have held dan down and licked him for 5 minutes.

I just didn't see a 10-8. I saw 2 warriors hanging in there until the end and literally giving it everything they had.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

K R Y said:


> A Rua win under fight metrics scoring system, which gives more emphasis on latter round performances. Under the unified rules it was a draw (or should of been).
> 
> Machida never lost to Shogun? That right there is why trying to discuss MMA with you is absolutely pointless.


Machida slipped in that fight it's a proven fact dude!

He never lost so far!!


Rua win is the most hilarious thing ever 

and you trust them haha good on ya mate 

Trust me man!

Hendo won that one lol


He already knew he was winning when that 5th round even started dude.. just like he said!


Unified Rules it was a win for Hendo!

the only man who came close to a finish several times.

Not some blanket laying on you.. zhh


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Thank god they didn't score that last one 10-8. i like to watch fights as a whole and judging by that Hendo won.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

oldfan said:


> I may not qualify as sane but I'm with bobby this time.
> 
> Shogun just barely had enough in him to stay on top of a 41 year old man who was about 2 heart beats/minute away from having a heart attack in the cage. *He inflicted no damage*. every time he tried, Dan escaped mount.
> 
> ...


Dude lol :laugh:

Hendo knew he had already won that fight when the 5th Round even started lol 

Now that says it all.. how far off your MMA is.



Rauno said:


> Thank god they didn't score that last one 10-8. i like to watch fights as a whole and judging by that Hendo won.


They did not?? 

I thought they did?

and the third for Hendo


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> Machida slipped in that fight it's a proven fact dude!
> 
> He never lost so far!!
> 
> ...


You're just happy because you think this means Machida might hold the title a little longer now that Shogun won't be gunning for him straight away. The irony is, Machida is going to get tooled by JJ and thus won't be getting that belt to begin with. And I can't wait for it to happen, you smug little shite.

You're going on ignore. You've become an unbearable little twerp. These two men put on a hell of a performance, and all you can do is come in here and badmouth Shogun? You're a fukcing disgrace and I can't wait to see you banned again.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> You're just happy because you think this means Machida might hold the title a little longer now that Shogun won't be gunning for him straight away. The irony is, Machida is going to get tooled by JJ and thus won't be getting that belt to begin with. And I can't wait for it to happen, you smug little shite.
> 
> You're going on ignore. You've become an unbearable little twerp. These two men put on a hell of a performance, and all you can do is come in here and badmouth Shogun? You're a fukcing disgrace and I can't wait to see you banned again.


hihi that Psycho is mad :hug:

Yes, you're even right about that 

I don't wanna see Lyoto vs. Shogun anytime soon hihi and now my wishes are being heard 

Arigato Hendo :hug:



Enter The Dragon :hug:


----------



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

*Keep this on topic gentlemen*

And Bobby, if you wanna discuss this fight - do so instead of just making claims and stating them as fact. Otherwise, stop posting in this thread. Thank you


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

That was a a sloppy, but great fight. It's a shame Shogun didn't show up in shape again, he looked so damn slow and plodding out there. Not the same berserker that ruled pride or fought Machida. Still an absolute warrior though, both guys.

Gonna watch it again in crispy HD in about half an hour.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

LikeI already mentioned a dozen times now.. 

Hendo clearly won that fight!

It isn't even debatable at all.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Squirrelfighter said:


> If this isn't fight of the year I don't know what it takes to become it.


Eddie Alvarez vs Chandler from last night easily tops this fight. As much as a great fight this was, it was real, real sloppy at times. Go watch Alvarez vs Chanlder right now! Unreal fight.

I probably rank the Alvarez fight as fight of the damn decade.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I think Shane Carwin would back me up on this... the 5th round was a classic example of double acute lactic acidosis.

given the same free license and qualifications as everybody else in this thread, ...i score that round 9-8.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> That was a a sloppy, but great fight. It's a shame Shogun didn't show up in shape again, he looked so damn slow and plodding out there. Not the same berserker that ruled pride or fought Machida. Still an absolute warrior though, both guys.
> 
> Gonna watch it again in crispy HD in about half an hour.


true! He still carries Cardio issues.

It took him 3 fights to get into Lyoto's shape and battle it out with him in the most beautiful fight in MMA history.

In Japan, the old Shogun should be back hopefully!

He is the second best LHW in the World.


----------



## Killer_Z (Nov 20, 2011)

It was a terrific fight, and although it was upsetting for me to see Shogun lose, I'm happy for both fighters as they carved themselves into UFC history with that performance.


----------



## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Shogun has top control but so do many other fighters, not everyone who has top control is and reigning down punches gets a 10-8 round. The fact is he got full mount 5-6 times but wasn't able to do a whole lot of damage. 

If you check it out properly, Dan is blocking a majority of the shots later in the round. After that first flurry by Shogun when he got full mount, he didn't do much and that is why it shouldn't be a 10-8. Just because you get a really dominant position and hold it for a whole round, there are other things going into a 10-8 round, like damage for example. 

And lets face it, Shogun didn't do a whole lot of damage because he was tired, people are giving him a 10-8 just on the basis that shogun would do more damage if he wasn't tired.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

The real fight of the year. Think Shogun vs Hendo, but without the fighters gassing out and looking like zombies, and a finish!


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever;1505931
The real fight of the year. Think Shogun vs Hendo said:


> Yea well.. the little guys are alright..


----------



## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Think Shogun vs Hendo, but without the fighters gassing out and looking like zombies, and a finish!


but part of the amazingness of that fight WAS them gassing and digging deep.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

hellholming said:


> but part of the amazingness of that fight WAS them gassing and digging deep.


you can argue about that lol


----------



## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)




----------



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

hellholming said:


>


What does young Stephan Bonnar has to do with any of this?


----------



## EagleClaw29 (Oct 24, 2010)

Budhisten said:


> Here's some interesting numbers for you guys:
> 
> CompuStrike - Rua Outlanded Hendo 90-58 in total power strikes, had 5 takedowns, & 7 dominant positions.
> 
> ...


Just some thoughts on this, I went to the compuStrike site to see what all the numbers where on everything they keep #'s on in an MMA fight.....but then saw I had to join another site to see....but didn't want to join yet another site that I know I would hardly ever use.

I'm a long time boxing fan as well as MMA now for about 7 years. I know in boxing....compustrike scores all punches except for jabs as power shots. I don't know how MMA does it.

And I don't know the specific criteria for judging an MMA fight except each round is scored individually & just the basic effective grappling, strikes, aggression, cage control....are what is looked at.

I think the big Rua difference in power shots could just be round 5 when he was raining down shots that weren't that hard & weren't hurting Hendo's iron chin much because they both were gassed, especially Hendo, which makes sense, he's 12 years older.

I'm guessing he may have got the edge in dominant positions because he kept mounting Hendo in round 5 too.

You didn't say how many dominant positions Hendo had or how many takedowns he had either.

In regards to takedowns...if 1 guy has 3 & the other 2, but the guy with 3 struggled to get them & the guy with 2 got one easy & on the other, it was a double leg where he lifted him as high as possible & slammed him down hard, wonder how that is scored?

I think I read one of the mod's say here once that you don't take damage into account in scoring. 

If thats true, that doesn't make sense to me at all. I think that if in a round 1 guy tags his opponent with 25 power shots but doesn't mark him up or bloody him up, and the other guy lands only 14, but those bust up the other guys face big time, & a few of them were body punches where u could see they almost made the other guy keel over......it should be given to the guy only landing 14 (all other things being = in the round).

I read earlier in this thread that you never see any rounds scored 10-7, I didn't know if it could be so I looked it up & a judge can score it that way....which I think is a good rule. 

I know that in boxing a round can be scored 10-10, although its rare to see it. So I looked that up too & an MMA round can be scored 10-10 as well.

Hmm....I see looking at this site where I'm getting this info (http://www.ringsidebygus.com/mma-rules.html) that it is a foul if you use a heel kick to the kidney, didn't know that.

Another thing that is a foul: "The use of abusive language in the fighting area." LOL....never saw that called & doubt I ever will.

Anyway....just some random meandering thoughts after 139.

And I agree with everybody that it was a great fight

& I go with the folks that say Hendo. IMHO each had one 10-8 round, and Heno took two of the other three. I thought u had to give Hendo a 10-8 round too because of the damage he did. Very close fight.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

hellholming said:


> but part of the amazingness of that fight WAS them gassing and digging deep.


They had moments where they fatigued a little, but neither man was ever completely gassed out. It was an unreal fight.

Chandler looked completely done in that third round, but then looked fresh in the fourth, crazy stuff.


----------



## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Budhisten said:


> What does young Stephan Bonnar has to do with any of this?


  :thumb02:


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> true! He still carries Cardio issues.
> 
> It took him 3 fights to get into Lyoto's shape and battle it out with him in the most beautiful fight in MMA history.
> 
> ...


I'm curious BBBBob...

In the 1st, before anyone was close to running out of gas, where was that on another level/different animal/second best in the world, striker??



















He made Hendo look like a world class boxer. I even saw Dan throw some leg kicks.

different animal...


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> That was a a sloppy, but great fight. It's a shame Shogun didn't show up in shape again, he looked so damn slow and plodding out there. Not the same berserker that ruled pride or fought Machida. Still an absolute warrior though, both guys.
> 
> Gonna watch it again in crispy HD in about half an hour.


I'm gonna go ahead and disagree here. I think if Shogun wasn't in shape theres no way he would have even been able to make an effort in the 5th round. Shogun still had enough in his tank to work for take downs, get the mount, and be busy for almost the entire 4th and 5th rounds. Dan rocked him very early and did a lot of damage. For three straight rounds Hendo landed his nuclear assault. I don't think the issue was with Shogun's gas tank, it was with the extreme amount of damage he was taking. It took the wind right out form his sails when Dan hit him first.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Terror Kovenant said:


> I'm gonna go ahead and disagree here. I think if Shogun wasn't in shape theres no way he would have even been able to make an effort in the 5th round. Shogun still had enough in his tank to work for take downs, get the mount, and be busy for almost the entire 4th and 5th rounds. Dan rocked him very early and did a lot of damage. For three straight rounds Hendo landed his nuclear assault. I don't think the issue was with Shogun's gas tank, it was with the extreme amount of damage he was taking. It took the wind right out form his sails when Dan hit him first.


Agree to disagree. Before any significant strikes were even landed in the first round, Shoguns entire movement and speed looked significantly worse. Plodding forwards, really slow, off kicks and slow punches. Again, this was even before Hendo tagged him.

Hendo was also gassed badly by the fourth and I believe Shogun won those last two rounds just on heart alone.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

oldfan said:


> I'm curious BBBBob...
> 
> In the 1st, before anyone was close to running out of gas, where was that on another level/different animal/second best in the world, striker??
> 
> ...


Tell me the time when you are not curious dude :laugh:


----------



## EagleClaw29 (Oct 24, 2010)

BrutalKO said:


> ...*Hendo & Shogun---Incredible!* That's what you call a war! A master chess game of MMA. What a rollercoaster ride! Shogun was badly busted up, bleeding like a faucet. Hendo's H-bomb almost finished the fight in the 3rd. Both guys were running on heart and instinct throughout the fight. It was one of the most complete MMA fights and war of attrition I've ever seen. Good decision for Hendo. He won the 1st 3 rds. Did a lot of early damage.
> ...*How about ol' Wandy!! Another spectatular fight! I never thought I would ever see another vintage, brutal Muay Thai finish from Wanderlie ever again. Hello! Man- he looked great and fought a smart fight.* His knees were amazing. That last knee from Wandy was brutal and flush. Good stoppage. Cung was finished. Amazing. Nice crushing submission win for Faber. He looked great and landed that bingo uppercut that was the beginning of the end. Again, watching Wandy bring back his past brought me the biggest smile to my face. What an awesome finish by the axe murderer...


good post! One thing I noticed tonight that I hadn't realized in the Wandy fight. 

u mentioned......How about ol' Wandy!! I saw on the tale of the tape that he's 35 (& I know what u mean by ol', lotta wars), but did u know that Cung is 39?
I didn't realize he was that old.

I have noticed that Cung gasses...I remember in the Cung vs. Scott Smith fight, Shamrock announcing said he is only a 2 round fighter, if u remember that fight, 

I think it was a 5 rounder where Cung was kicking Smith into oblivion & tossing him around the cage the whole fight without Smith being able to do anything....then with about 2 minutes left in the 5th, Hands of Steel feints a right & then clocks him with a short left & Cung was toast very soon after

just read something else about Wandy....in his 48 MMA fights, he has never been submitted


Maybe Cung is too involved with movies to ramp up the cardio. 

I went to see the movie "The Ides of March" the other day and in one of the previews....there was a young woman in a movie with Michael Douglas, Ewan McGregor, Antonio Banderas, & it was directed by Steven Soderbergh & in her preview scenes she was beating some people up....she sorta looked familiar....then when they named a few people in the cast...I saw it was Gina Carano

I wouldn't blame her for liking making movies a lot more than fighting Cyborg

just a few more random thoughts


----------



## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

Fantastic fight, even tho Rua showed up as "Slowgun" he was still a monster. It's sad that he has slowed down so much, or rather that he seems out of shape because his wrestling is coming along quite a bit.

IMO it was a draw but I'm ok with Hendo getting the decision as well. Both are total beasts. Atleast Wand won his fight giving old chutebox a win on the card.

If Shogun can get his speed up again like in the Pride days I think he wrecks everyone not named Jones in the division.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Crazy sport this is. You have Hendo outstriking and almost TKO'ing the muay thai master Shogun and Shogun taking down the olympian wrestler.


----------



## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Before any significant strikes were even landed in the first round, Shoguns entire movement and speed looked significantly worse. Plodding forwards, really slow, off kicks and slow punches. Again, this was even before Hendo tagged him.


This. It's hard to believe that's the same fighter that fought Machida at UFC 104. Not to mention the Pride days. I really think all the knee injuries have taken soo much out of him. One of Shogun biggest assets was that he used to be so light on his feet. He looked like an old Mark Coleman the way he moved last night. Shogun is just a shell of his former greatness, if he didn't have one of the greatest chins in MMA history he would have been finished by Hendo. This might seem like a knee-jerk thing to say, but I think a 2005 Shogun would handle Henderson in the stand-up. Not taking anything away from Hendo, but man. Shogun looked like his best days are past him.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Also, I scored this fight as a draw.

Hendo:
10:9
10:9
10:9
Shogun:
10:9
10:8

No way in HELL was that third round a 10:8 for hendo. He rocked Shogun badly at one point in the fight, but Shogun recovered, threatened with a submission and attacked afterwards. That doesn't warrant any kind of 10:8.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

As a matter of fact jones would have lost to this 75% version of shogun


----------



## box (Oct 15, 2006)

I'd love to see a change in judging where you get instant scores after each round. It may help fighters amp themselves up to finish, since they know without a doubt where the scoring stands.

Bobby, just stop trolling. It was funny at first but it's a waste of forum bandwidth now.


----------



## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

box said:


> I'd love to see a change in judging where you get instant scores after each round. It may help fighters amp themselves up to finish, since they know without a doubt where the scoring stands.


Why, so you can possibly see the superior wrestlers or fighters lay n' pray or just avoid engaging? that would be a disaster.


----------



## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

BobbyCooper said:


> As a matter of fact jones would have lost to this 75% version of shogun


Time to sit the crack pipe down buddy!


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

box said:


> I'd love to see a change in judging where you get instant scores after each round. It may help fighters amp themselves up to finish, since they know without a doubt where the scoring stands.
> 
> Bobby, just stop trolling. It was funny at first but it's a waste of forum bandwidth now.


Yeah I could see the opposite happening too. Fighters already sometimes coast the last round when they know they've won enough to take the decision, and that's just on their own (or their corners') opinion of the score. I think it would be worse if they knew for 100% sure they were ahead by enough to coast.


----------



## box (Oct 15, 2006)

The guys who are going to do that do it anyway. I'm talking about fights like this where they actually fight. I mean it won't stop guys like GSP and fitch from grinding out their decision, but I think it would be good for fans to see the scores as well, live. Guys who get away with LnP usually are winning and know it, it won't change a thing.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

box said:


> I'd love to see a change in judging where you get instant scores after each round. It may help fighters amp themselves up to finish, since they know without a doubt where the scoring stands.
> 
> Bobby, just stop trolling. It was funny at first but it's a waste of forum bandwidth now.





Wookie said:


> Time to sit the crack pipe down buddy!


Guys it's the sad truth!

Yesterday we saw the shgun who would never tap

Not even to an H bomb 

You will understand it more in 2 weeks only


----------



## box (Oct 15, 2006)

BobbyCooper said:


> Guys it's the sad truth!
> 
> Yesterday we saw the shgun who would never tap
> 
> ...


What about when Bones finished Shogun and the ref stopped it before Shogun started tapping?


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

If this if that. Shogun lost that night against Jones and tapped out. 

Im happy for Hendo.


----------



## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

luckbox said:


> This. It's hard to believe that's the same fighter that fought Machida at UFC 104. Not to mention the Pride days. I really think all the knee injuries have taken soo much out of him. One of Shogun biggest assets was that he used to be so light on his feet. He looked like an old Mark Coleman the way he moved last night. Shogun is just a shell of his former greatness, if he didn't have one of the greatest chins in MMA history he would have been finished by Hendo. This might seem like a knee-jerk thing to say, but I think a 2005 Shogun would handle Henderson in the stand-up. Not taking anything away from Hendo, but man. Shogun looked like his best days are past him.


I don't think that's much of a stretch at all. Hendo's stand-up is actually pretty damn terrible. His go to combo (AKA The only thing I've seen him KO someone with) is that inside leg kick/Haymaker combo. He did it against Shogun countless times last night and missed with alot of them. Yes, if it lands most fighters will go lights out. A great stricker (Jones, Machida, Rampage, Anderson etc) would absolutely (did) wreck his shit when he tries it over and over again. Dan's longevity and new found prowess is only going to last as long as someone finding a big counter to that technique. 

That being said, if Dan were to go back to knowing how to wrestle (he seems to forget he's an excellent wrestler every time he fights now) then he could be a major player. If he finds new ways to set up that big haymaker or if he threatens with take downs it would open his game by large amounts. Do I think it will happen? Hell no. He's too stuck in his ways and that showed glaringly against Silva and in his last few close fights where, yes, he was winning standing but just barely.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

box said:


> What about when Bones finished Shogun and the ref stopped it before Shogun started tapping?


Dude I can't help you

Just 2 more weeks and watch how Lyoto yes the wonderful person Lyoto who got stopped by shogun is going run through this kid

Then you will ask me if this world is a plate or not


----------



## box (Oct 15, 2006)

I thought you're going to leave when Lyoto loses, how will I ask you?


----------



## Dream-On-101 (Jun 4, 2009)

Bobby i'm being wholly serious here, what are you going to do with yourself if (when) Lyoto gets tooled by Jones? If you werent such a nuisance nowadays i might actually be concerned, now i'm just curious.

Anyway, let me wade in on this one. WHAT. A. FECKIN. FIGHT. One of the best i've ever seen, hands down. It had everything, and from two of the biggest stars in MMA history - truly felt great to be a fan last night. 

I'm a huge Shogun fan, but i have to say, i did think Hendo one the fight, 3 roundsto 2. The last round could have been a 10-8 (i personally dont thinik it was as i dont think enough actual damage was inflicted, but i wouldnt blame anyone for thinking it could have been, just as i wouldnt blame anyone for thinking Hendo secured a 108 earlier in the fight. I hoped for a draw, but i wasnt suprised when they give Hendo the nod. 

Shogun doesnt lose any face after this loss, the world has seen that the man is a true warrior who really was a shadow of himself in the Jones fight. He looked slow, far from 100%, but his wrestling looks better and i'm sure he will continue back on his road to recovery assuming his knees continue to hold up.

Definitely give him Rampage next. I think thats a fight we all want to see, i think Shogun would take it and that would probably set up Shogun v Machida III after he loses to Jonny boy. 

I didnt see anything in that fight to suggest Hendo will stand a chance against Jones. For one thing the reach and size difference is going to be unreal. But it is nice to see the old fella riding the wave in the twighlight (prime?lol) of his career. I'm just upset it came at Ruas expense.

Anyway, massive props to both fighters. I hope everyone enjoyed it as much as i did, really one for the history books. We may never have got the chance to see Liddel v Hendo, but we can rest assured it wouldnt have been better than this!


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Dream-On-101 said:


> Bobby i'm being wholly serious here, what are you going to do with yourself if (when) Lyoto gets tooled by Jones? If you werent such a nuisance nowadays i might actually be concerned, now i'm just curious.QUOTE]
> 
> The chances of this happening.. DO NOT EVEN EXIST DUDE!!!
> 
> So stop bothering me with something that will never happen in a lifetime!!


----------



## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

TraMaI said:


> I don't think that's much of a stretch at all.


I agree, I just didn't want it to seem like I was making excuses. Hendo is so durable and so tough but I'm very surprised Shogun wasn't able to figure him out and pick him apart, and I think the top strikers in the division will.


----------



## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

I made the prediction that if Hendo were to go back to 185 and fight Sonnen that he would beat Sonnen. I take that comment back based on Hendo's questionable cardio and how easily Shogun got him down time and time again. Sonnen would maul him.


On another topic, you guys seriously need to stop feeding the troll.


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

The fight probably should have been stopped in the third at one point. Ridiculously great fight Hendo deserved the win you can't say the fifth was a 10/8 but the second and third weren't; Hendo hurt Shogun a lot worse in both of those rounds than Shogun ever hurt him.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

osmium said:


> The fight probably should have been stopped in the third at one point. Ridiculously great fight Hendo deserved the win you can't say the fifth was a 10/8 but the second and third weren't; Hendo hurt Shogun a lot worse in both of those rounds than Shogun ever hurt him.


Those Fanboys will come at ya hard boy :thumb02:


----------



## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Hendo most certainly hurt Shogun especially in the 3rd (could have been stopped), but Shogun also really hurt Dan in the 4th.


----------



## Atras (Sep 12, 2011)

Man what an incredible fight, both fighters left everything in the ring - Hendo did much better than I expected. I'm so glad it was 5 rounds, and that Rosenthal didn't stop it prematurely.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Soakked said:


> Hendo most certainly hurt Shogun especially in the 3rd (could have been stopped), but Shogun also really hurt Dan in the 4th.


Yeah compare those situations LMAO


----------



## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Atras said:


> Man what an incredible fight, both fighters left everything in the ring - Hendo did much better than I expected. I'm so glad it was 5 rounds, and that Rosenthal didn't stop it prematurely.


Yeah good job by Rosenthal for sure.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

osmium said:


> The fight probably should have been stopped in the third at one point. Ridiculously great fight Hendo deserved the win you can't say the fifth was a 10/8 but the second and third weren't; Hendo hurt Shogun a lot worse in both of those rounds than Shogun ever hurt him.


In the fifth round, Hendo mounted absolutely no offense against Shogun. In the other rounds you mentioned, Hendo had Shogun really hurt, but he recovered quickly and mounted offense against Dan.

A 10:8 round implies that one fighter completely, absolutely dominates his opponent, without them doing any thing other than defend. Shogun didn't just defend, he attacked too.


----------



## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

I want TRT.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

AmdM said:


> I want TRT.


meee toooooo


----------



## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

Having re-watched the fight, there is no way round 3 could be a 10-8. I completely agree with McKeevers sentiments - yes Shogun was in deep trouble for one passage of play in that round but he did mount his own offence sub attempt, takedown followed by a flurry of good punches, and even matched stand up before and after the Hendo blitz. How is that a 10-8 ?

In the fifth, Shoguns gassed arms may have meant Hendo wasn't close to being KO'd, but Hendo did nothing. Shogun advanced position tens of times, reigned down 30-40 punches unanswered and 100% dominated him. This feasibly is a 10-8 to me, where one fighter offers zero whilst having shots reigned down on him for a full 5 minutes. Fitch Penn comes to mind.

Draw for me, and they should be having a re-match.


----------



## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

GlasgowKiss said:


> Having re-watched the fight, there is no way round 3 could be a 10-8. I completely agree with McKeevers sentiments - yes Shogun was in deep trouble for one passage of play in that round but he did mount his own offence sub attempt, takedown followed by a flurry of good punches, and even matched stand up before and after the Hendo blitz. How is that a 10-8 ?
> 
> In the fifth, Shoguns gassed arms may have meant Hendo wasn't close to being KO'd, but Hendo did nothing. Shogun advanced position tens of times, reigned down 30-40 punches unanswered and 100% dominated him. This feasibly is a 10-8 to me, where one fighter offers zero whilst having shots reigned down on him for a full 5 minutes. Fitch Penn comes to mind.
> 
> Draw for me, and they should be having a re-match.


I second this, but the 5th round was a lot more dominant then the Penn/Fitch-round. Penn/Fitch is borderline, arguable 10-8, this was a definite 10-8. I'm blown away so many people don't seem to think that it was.


----------



## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

I think people are forgetting than Rua hurt Dan in the early rounds too.


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> I think people are forgetting than Rua hurt Dan in the early rounds too.


With a punch to the back of the head.


----------



## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

I think Hendo vs Jones would be a cooler match since Anderson is waiting for Sonnen in mid 2012 that's the fight that will probably come first.


----------



## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

only problem from this fight was that it showed how badly JBJ will beat Hendo. Hendo's style is very similar to Rampages plus takedowns. Plodding slow movement is exactly what Bones is good against, Hendo is in deep trouble unless he starts training his footwork and head movement nearly exclusively until his title shot.


----------



## fightfan76 (Sep 29, 2011)

GlasgowKiss said:


> Having re-watched the fight, there is no way round 3 could be a 10-8. I completely agree with McKeevers sentiments - yes Shogun was in deep trouble for one passage of play in that round but he did mount his own offence sub attempt, takedown followed by a flurry of good punches, and even matched stand up before and after the Hendo blitz. How is that a 10-8 ?
> 
> In the fifth, Shoguns gassed arms may have meant Hendo wasn't close to being KO'd, but Hendo did nothing. Shogun advanced position tens of times, reigned down 30-40 punches unanswered and 100% dominated him. This feasibly is a 10-8 to me, where one fighter offers zero whilst having shots reigned down on him for a full 5 minutes. Fitch Penn comes to mind.
> 
> *Draw for me, and they should be having a re-match.*


I thought it was gonna be a draw as well, but there is an argument for both to get the win. I dont see it as a bad or great decision, tough 1 to call IMO.....


----------



## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Just re-watched the fight.
yeah, 3rd isn't a 10-8, it's a clear 10-9.
5th being a clear 10-8.
Fight should have been a draw imo.


----------



## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

After watching TUF 14 I could imagine Bisping screaming at Shogun not to drop his left hand & to carry it high to block Hendo's H bomb.

Was Shogun trying to bait Hendo into throwing the big right by carrying his left hand low?

Shogun's gameplan made zero sense to me, bros.


----------



## cookiefritas (Jun 17, 2011)

These chute boxe guys are great for entertainment raise01:, but they get in slugfests that do not do justice to their technical ability. It is sad to see because they start to decline at a very young age. Shogun has gotten absolutely lit up in two of his last three fights, the brain can not take that type of punishment for much longer. In the next year or so, he will find himself waking up face down, ass up regularly, just like poor Wanderlei.

I don't like JBJ, but he would brutalize Hendo. If shogun can get Hendo down a bunch of times and mount him, JBJ will do the same and do a number on Hendo with his elbows.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

K R Y said:


> Except Edgar didn't come back until the next round. Shogun landed upper cuts and kicks before being rocked. Then, went for a heel hook, takes his back and lands a few shots.
> 
> Esdgar however got beaten up the entire round.
> 
> ...


Actually Kry at the end of the first round frank landed hooks to maynards mouth hard that if he was stronger are KO punches


----------



## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Actually Kry at the end of the first round frank landed hooks to maynards mouth hard that if he was stronger are KO punches


you see what happened here right?


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Trix said:


> After watching TUF 14 I could imagine Bisping screaming at Shogun not to drop his left hand & to carry it high to block Hendo's H bomb.
> 
> Was Shogun trying to bait Hendo into throwing the big right by carrying his left hand low?
> 
> Shogun's gameplan made zero sense to me, bros.


I was thinking the same, why would we he leave the left side of his face unguarded. In his defense that's how he fights with his left arm measuring his distance with his right hand in the chamber. I almost think he was baiting Hendo to throw so he could exchange...in fact he probably was crazy enough to try that plan. Unfortunately it didn't work too well, it did however prove that Shogun has a rock solid jaw.

One thing Shogun was going for was the uppercut. Hendo always ducks down so that was a good plan. But it wasn't before Shogun got rocked multiple times badly. If it was JDS maybe he could have finished. Shogun didn't really throw any leg kicks either. I think the plan was really to just go out and bang with Hendo. It wasn't till things got a little dicey that Shogun decided to take it to the ground. 

I'd like to see Shogun vs JBJ again down the line to see how the fight unravels and hopefully a rematch against Hendo. Man it looked like Shogun had Hendo on the ropes in the 4th round and even in the fifth. 

If Hendo somehow beats JBJ I have to see Anderson Silva move up to LHW and show everybody how it's done...haha. How sick would that be.


----------



## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Shogun's game plan went overboard 30 seconds into 1st round when he dived for the TD and ended up eating a flurry of bombs coming from Hendo's fists.


----------



## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

Shogun should have lit Hendo's legs up so he wasn't as mobile. Then he could have had an easier time on the feet. Instead he slugged it with one of the heaviest hitters and the best chin in the sport. 

Crazy, but that's Shogun all over and that's why it was such a great fight.

Shogun is the most exciting ever 205'er.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Hiro said:


> Shogun should have lit Hendo's legs up so he wasn't as mobile. Then he could have had an easier time on the feet. Instead he slugged it with one of the heaviest hitters and the best chin in the sport.
> 
> Crazy, but that's Shogun all over and that's why it was such a great fight.
> 
> Shogun is the most exciting ever 205'er.


To me, Hendo is one of the most exciting fighters out there who always goes on and delivers.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)




----------



## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

oldfan said:


>


hahaha, it's good for him that his chin is as good as his power or that could have been embarrassing.


----------



## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

At the end of the fight as me and my roommate were talking about Shogun's chin the one question we had was 'What the F did JBJ do to him if Hendo couldn't put him away?'. Seriously, I will never question Shoguns chin, and while I feel the fight should have been stopped in the 3rd I also think Shoguns ability to take that punishment and keep pressing forward was beyond impressive. Loved every moment of this fight.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

mmaswe82 said:


> hahaha, it's good for him that his chin is as good as his power or that could have been embarrassing.


It's a well known fact that Hendo has another, tougher chin under his original chin. :thumbsup:


----------



## GoodfellaGr (Aug 16, 2011)

osmium said:


> The fight probably should have been stopped in the third at one point. Ridiculously great fight Hendo deserved the win you can't say the fifth was a 10/8 but the second and third weren't; Hendo hurt Shogun a lot worse in both of those rounds than Shogun ever hurt him.




DUDE ARE ~YOU KIDDING ME?! How on earth 5th round is NOT a 10-8?! Hendo was mounted for 4.30/5.00 minutes! what else do you want for a 10-8? Shogun was down on third, but he standed up and attacked the leg! Hendo did NOTHING in 5th.

I also like Hendo but don't say these nonsense cause you like the old guy


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I can't believe it's just me and bobbycooper who have this opinion but, I still say the more important point is not that hendo did nothing in the 5th, it is that Shogun did nothing in the 5th.

Maintaining top position on an exhausted fighter is not a 10-8.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

cdtcpl said:


> At the end of the fight as me and my roommate were talking about Shogun's chin the one question we had was 'What the F did JBJ do to him if Hendo couldn't put him away?'. Seriously, I will never question Shoguns chin, and while I feel the fight should have been stopped in the 3rd I also think Shoguns ability to take that punishment and keep pressing forward was beyond impressive. Loved every moment of this fight.


Jon bodyshotted shogun to end the fight it wasn't a KO or tko from head strikes, aldo shogun had way worse cardio in that fight.


----------



## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

They say body shots make cowards of us all.


----------



## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

Soakked said:


> They say body shots make cowards of us all.


Ain't that the truth, lol.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I'd rather take a punch to the face than a good punch to the body.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Rauno said:


> I'd rather take a punch to the face than a good punch to the body.


I've taken both, if a punch hits my solar plexis or liver its nearly impossible to fight, my favorite strike I use and workd great is uppercut to the solar plexis, I drop everyone with that one you cant recover its impossible.


----------



## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

There's a poster here (name is escaping me atm) that has a avy of Roy Jones hitting some dude with a liver shot with perfect technique. The dude falls like a sack of potatos.

That's what makes Nick Diaz so successful, he punishes the body like no other. JBJ is learning to use body shots as well. In boxing it's much easier to block body shots, but in MMA with those small gloves, a well placed body shot can end a fight quickly.


----------



## Atras (Sep 12, 2011)

cdtcpl said:


> ...and while I feel the fight should have been stopped in the 3rd I also think Shoguns ability to take that punishment and keep pressing forward was beyond impressive.


Why should it? Shogun was defending himself at all times, didn't go limp, and the ref was very much on top of the action. Rosenthal made one of the best calls _not _to stop the fight, as he would have robbed us of one of the most epic fights in MMA history.


----------



## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Atras said:


> Why should it? Shogun was defending himself at all times, didn't go limp, and the ref was very much on top of the action. Rosenthal made one of the best calls _not _to stop the fight, as he would have robbed us of one of the most epic fights in MMA history.


He did turtle up for a second before he managed to grab Dan's leg. But I agree with the ref not stopping it, I thought he made the right decision.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> I've taken both, if a punch hits my solar plexis or liver its nearly impossible to fight, my favorite strike I use and workd great is uppercut to the solar plexis, I drop everyone with that one you cant recover its impossible.


Same here, about taking the punch. 


Soakked said:


> There's a poster here (name is escaping me atm) that has a avy of Roy Jones hitting some dude with a liver shot with perfect technique. The dude falls like a sack of potatos.
> 
> That's what makes Nick Diaz so successful, he punishes the body like no other. JBJ is learning to use body shots as well. In boxing it's much easier to block body shots, but in MMA with those small gloves, a well placed body shot can end a fight quickly.


Hit's the cat your talking about.


----------



## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

I figured it was Hitormiss, though his previous Faber avy threw me off memory wise.


----------



## Atras (Sep 12, 2011)

Soakked said:


> He did turtle up for a second before he managed to grab Dan's leg. But I agree with the ref not stopping it, I thought he made the right decision.


Turtling up is a valid short-term tactic to gather your thoughts and protect oneself, not much different than covering up while standing, like Shogun did in (was it) round 1. Of course if it lasts for more than just a few seconds, then it's probably a sign of mental breakdown and/or physical damage requiring stoppage; but as you said, Shogun quickly changed tactics.


----------



## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Atras said:


> Turtling up is a valid short-term tactic to gather your thoughts and protect oneself, not much different than covering up while standing, like Shogun did in (was it) round 1. Of course if it lasts for more than just a few seconds, then it's probably a sign of mental breakdown and/or physical damage requiring stoppage; but as you said, Shogun quickly changed tactics.


True no argument there. I was simply talking from a Ref's viewpoint, some ref's would have used that as an indicator to stop the fight. Josh's rep went up with his non stoppage in my eyes.


----------



## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

Rauno said:


> To me, Hendo is one of the most exciting fighters out there who always goes on and delivers.


Can't disagree, it's him and Shogun. Personally I think Shogun tops it because of how he won the UFC title, Hendo has fallen short and unless he drops to 185 he isn't going to win a title anytime soon.

Imagine Hendo beat Anderson... raise01:


----------



## Grotty (Jul 21, 2006)

Im not going to pick a fault or complain about either fighter, that was one hell of a fight and Shoguns chin was surprising with the Hendo Bombs. Anyhoo a great fight and one i will watch again.


----------



## EagleClaw29 (Oct 24, 2010)

cookiefritas said:


> These chute boxe guys are great for entertainment raise01:, but they get in slugfests that do not do justice to their technical ability. It is sad to see because they start to decline at a very young age. Shogun has gotten absolutely lit up in two of his last three fights, the brain can not take that type of punishment for much longer. In the next year or so, he will find himself waking up face down, ass up regularly, just like poor Wanderlei.
> 
> I don't like JBJ, but he would brutalize Hendo. If shogun can get Hendo down a bunch of times and mount him, JBJ will do the same and do a number on Hendo with his elbows.


You make a very good point here. Although most fans probably enjoy watching all out savage slugfests with two guys who have iron chins (including myself)....the future does not bode well for most of them. Especially with the 4 ounce gloves they use.

A very good example of this is Jerry Quarry. He was a heavyweight fighter in the Ali - Frazier days. He was an Irishman who was an extremely tough guy who could use that toughness & chin to beat all but the elite fighters of the day like Ali & Frazier. He also cut real easy which was another thing he had to deal with.

Quarry was rated by Ring magazine as the most popular fighter in the sport from 1968-1971.

Sadly, not so long after he retired he developed "pugilistic dementia" & could not dress or feed himself. He died at 54. He also had 3 brothers & two of them were fighters. One of them (Mike), developed the same "pugilistic dementia" as Jerry & also died young.

The other fighting brother (Bobby) suffers from Parkinsons disease, believed to be the result of his boxing career. The only brother that wasn't a fighter (James), was healthy & ended up taking care of the others.

I have also seen a lot lately in regards to retired football players coming up with these same symptons. As this guy said....most brains just can't take to many big hits to them without consequences.

When they autopsy these guys....medical examiners have pointed out the difference in how their brains look as compared to normal ones.

Lastly, I think some of the guys in combat sports are just too tough for their own good....although folks love them for it. Lots of examples of this, here is just one of them and it's from boxing, another sport I follow.

The Pacquiao vs. Margarito fight. Margarito kept telling his corner that Pacquiao didn't have the power to hurt him....lol.

That fight was all about speed (Margarito had a 17 lb. weight advantage the night of the fight). Pacquiao pummeled Margarito to the head and face almost at will through the whole fight. Margarito kept fighting with a broken orbital bone by one of his eyes.

Pacman kept looking at the ref to stop it in the 11th & 12th rounds....but he didn't. You could obviously see that Pacquiao took it easy on him in the last 2 rounds. I wish I knew enough about computers to stick in a picture of Margarito's extremely swollen head and face after the fight...and then he had to have surgery on the orbital bone.

LOL...& Margarito is saying to his corner...he can't hurt me. But Margarito is one of those iron chin dudes....have seen him take massive amounts of punishment in other fights without quitting. I'm sure he is a good candidate for "pugilistic dementia" after he retires and some years go by.

If anybody has any further interest in this: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Quarry


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Hiro said:


> Can't disagree, it's him and Shogun. Personally I think Shogun tops it because of how he won the UFC title, Hendo has fallen short and unless he drops to 185 he isn't going to win a title anytime soon.
> 
> Imagine Hendo beat Anderson... raise01:


Henderson going on a full, all-out brawl mode pressing Anderson against the cage and just firing a shot after shot until Andersons limb body collapses. raise01:


----------



## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

EagleClaw29 said:


> You make a very good point here. Although most fans probably enjoy watching all out savage slugfests with two guys who have iron chins (including myself)....the future does not bode well for most of them. Especially with the 4 ounce gloves they use.
> 
> A very good example of this is Jerry Quarry. He was a heavyweight fighter in the Ali - Frazier days. He was an Irishman who was an extremely tough guy who could use that toughness & chin to beat all but the elite fighters of the day like Ali & Frazier. He also cut real easy which was another thing he had to deal with.
> 
> ...


i agree but boxing causes a lot more brain damage than MMA.. constant and repeated blows to the head for 30 min is worse than a few good blows and then a flash KO


----------



## EagleClaw29 (Oct 24, 2010)

Rauno said:


> I'd rather take a punch to the face than a good punch to the body.


 I'm a boxing fan as well as MMA & totally agree with you guys about well placed & delivered body shots being much harder to take than head shots.

Remember the recent movie called "The Fighter" about the career of boxer "Irish Micky Ward". Ward was known for liking to deliver body shots.

Here is a You Tube video of a partial round in a fight he had with Alfonso Sanchez. I don't think they showed this fight in the movie.

It was an HBO fight where Sanchez was a huge favorite & the HBO announcers kept saying that the fight should be stopped because Ward just couldn't land anything on Sanchez & Sanchez was able to constantly connect on Ward.

The video is just part of the 7th round & it totally applies to what the subject is....take a look at it!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yzxKAqA6uw


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Rauno said:


> Henderson going on a full, all-out brawl mode pressing Anderson against the cage and just firing a shot after shot until Andersons limb body collapses. raise01:


Andy via not being Shogun.


----------

