# Were gonna see the best Dragon come Dec 10!



## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

Sign here in this thread if you support Lyoto on UFC 140 ! I truly believe were gonna see him as the champion again.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

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Break Bones.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

xRoxaz said:


> Were gonna see the best Dragon come Dec 10!


Amen raise01:


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

My question is, is Jones gonna drop like Rashad or Soukoudjou? I can see it go either way but prefer the KO for sure.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)




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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

lol nice post UFC OWNS, yes thats the guy hes going to destroy i like the way you think bro


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## mo25 (Feb 7, 2011)

None of my favorites have been doing well, so I'm really hoping that Machida takes it.


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## meelad92 (Aug 29, 2009)

I support this thread. I'm going to be attending this event! so excited

War Machida!


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## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

Any patriots here? 
Only Jones stands in the way of the Brazilians owning the top 3 belts.
Nothing against Brazilian fighters, but they do mock the fickleness of us fans! 
Me thinks enoughs enough!


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## StandThemUp (May 30, 2008)

Nice Pics Lyoto Legion. I just can't help but notice the ones where Rua is smashing Machida in the face while his is unconscious are suspeciously absent from the photo album.

How did Rua, a fighter that really beat Lyoto twice, fair against Jones? Based on that, how is Lyoto going to match up with Jones?


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

StandThemUp said:


> Nice Pics Lyoto Legion. I just can't help but notice the ones where Rua is smashing Machida in the face while his is unconscious are suspeciously absent from the photo album.
> 
> How did Rua, a fighter that really beat Lyoto twice, fair against Jones? Based on that, how is Lyoto going to match up with Jones?


By MMA-math logic I'm a better fighter than Kenny Florian - he's 0-3 in titlefights while I'm 0-0 

Not saying that I'm sure Machida will win, because I'm not at all... I just know we'll get an exciting fight, and past matchups can't tell the future


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Jon Jones is the future of mma and may be the goat. But i don't like the kid and I will permanent put my name down in support of any of his opponent. 

It is messed up my hate for jon jones, he is kinda like lebron james of mma. I would love to see machida knock him the **** out.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

StandThemUp said:


> Nice Pics Lyoto Legion. I just can't help but notice the ones where Rua is smashing Machida in the face while his is unconscious are suspeciously absent from the photo album.
> 
> How did Rua, a fighter that really beat Lyoto twice, fair against Jones? Based on that, how is Lyoto going to match up with Jones?


MMA math is terrible logic. Chuck Liddell was beaten handily by Rampage. Rampage lost 2 out of 3 fights to Wanderlei while Liddell beat Wanderlei.

See? Doesn't work.


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## Black_S15 (Jul 14, 2010)

geez i hope your right.

dragons last 4 fights starting from his first title defence against shogun. a shady decision win, gets knocked out by shogun in the rematch (we know who should of won the first), gets beaten by ramapage. even if you think machida won (which i do) compare that with what jones did to rampage and it doesnt look good for machida. and his win against Captain America. randy was well past his prime and 48 years old. hardly impressive.

not hating at all, i want machida to win as i want the excitement to remain in the LHW division.... had he say chalked up at least 2 or 3 IMPRESSIVE wins in a row i would be more optimistic. but the truth is Machida hasnt done anything to really make me think "we are going to see the best dragon to date"

jones is going to maul him. i hope im wrong...


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## ProdigyPenn (Sep 9, 2011)

StandThemUp said:


> Nice Pics Lyoto Legion. I just can't help but notice the ones where Rua is smashing Machida in the face while his is unconscious are suspeciously absent from the photo album.
> 
> *How did Rua, a fighter that really beat Lyoto twice, fair against Jones? Based on that, how is Lyoto going to match up with Jones?*


I dont think that theory work in MMA (or any combat sport).

Just because fight A beat fighter B and fighter B beat fighter C, it doesnt mean fighter A can beat fighter C.

Antonio Silva beat Fedor Emelianenko and lose to Andrei Arlovski whom Fedor KOed.

Styles make fights. And in this case, Machida fighting style has the biggest chance to match up Jones style. 

I am not counting Machida out yet.

War Machida!


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

ProdigyPenn said:


> *Antonio Silva* beat Fedor Emelianenko and lose to Andrei Arlovski whom Fedor KOed.


*Fabricio Werdum* beat Fedor Emelianenko and lost to Andrei Arlovski whom Fedor KOed.

Correction. 

And OP, we're going to see the best Jones as well.


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## Freakshow (Aug 10, 2011)

I like both fighters, so unless it ends up being a draw, I'm gonna enjoy the fight. I don't know if the Dragon can take Bones, but I do think that if anyone in the division can, it's him. 



StandThemUp said:


> How did Rua, a fighter that really beat Lyoto twice, fair against Jones? Based on that, how is Lyoto going to match up with Jones?


I don't really agree with the logic there. If that was the case, there would be no point in ever offering a shot to Rashad, since he lost to Machida. Just because Shogun beat Machida doesn't mean Machida would lose to anyone who ever beats Shogun. A striker might knock the shot out of a BJJ guy only to lose to a wrestler. But that same wrestler might get choked out by the BJJ guy.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

StandThemUp said:


> Nice Pics Lyoto Legion. I just can't help but notice the ones where Rua is smashing Machida in the face while his is unconscious are suspeciously absent from the photo album.
> 
> How did Rua, a fighter that really beat Lyoto twice, fair against Jones? Based on that, how is Lyoto going to match up with Jones?


Good point

Machida beat Rashad and Rashad beat Rampage so surely based on that, Machida would beat Rampage right?

And of course, Machida and Shogun have the same style of fighting, can't forget about that.


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## prolyfic (Apr 22, 2007)

I have to be the unlickiest fan in the history of MMA. My 3 favorite fighters since I have seen them fight have been Rampage, Lyoto, and Jon Jones. I admit that Jon has taken the top spot after his fight with Vera but still love all 3 guys. Now I have had the pleasure of watching these 3 go at each other and the only thing I had to hold onto was that at least Machida and Jones hasnt fought. Well gone is that. SUCKS TO BE ME!:angry04:


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

xRoxaz said:


> Sign here in this thread if you support Lyoto on UFC 140 ! I truly believe were gonna see him as the champion again.


Bobby is that you??


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

G_Land said:


> Bobby is that you??


no im not bobby, but now that u mention him where is he? i do have him on my fb though lol.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

Nice Find + rep


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

Jon Jones is going to go all Skyrim on Lyoto's ass!


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## otronegro (Aug 23, 2011)

I hope Jones ragdoll Lyoto around and get the tko, but i dont see this as easy. Machida has ko power and the speed will help him. I can see him pressuring Jones, using flurries, leg kicks also, but at the risk of geting caught by a single or even maybe a huge counter.
Machida also have to be perfect because if Jones land anything, then i think his fight is going down the drain. those elbows are nasty.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

Mirage445 said:


> Jon Jones is going to go all Skyrim on Lyoto's ass!


I don't get it


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

otronegro said:


> those elbows are nasty.


And also illegal sometimes...... Machida by DQ :thumb02:


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## Ryankmfdm (Sep 24, 2010)

If Machida somehow manages to knock out Jones, then he'll be on the delivering end of two of my favorite knockouts in UFC history.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Bknmax said:


> I don't get it


Skyrim is full of mostly naked men engaging in hand to hand combat... haven't you played it?


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

Soojooko said:


> Skyrim is full of mostly naked men engaging in hand to hand combat... haven't you played it?


Not yet


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Got MONEY ON MACHIDA!!! Lets do it!

BTW: New show to watch SOA!


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

I just don't see what all you guys see.

Machida seems to like standing on the outside, evade and pick aparts his opponents from there.

until Jones, it worked out alright because he was able to stand out of their reach.

how is it supposed to work with Jone's reach?

I really love Machida, 10 times over Jones, but to me, Rampage had the best style to beat Jones and I think he held his own better than anyone else so far (in title fights vs jones that is)

I think Evans or Hendo have a better chance to beat Jones than Machida. But to me (and I don't really know anything, to be honest), a good stand up fighter who stays in the pocket and has great wrestling/clinch game to keep it standing is the blueprint to beat Jones.

I don't see how machida would be able to hit jones without being hit first on his way there.

I hope I'm wrong and that he knocks Jones out in a humiliating fashion, but I don't believe it'll happen and rather predict a fast finish for Jones, keeping the belt at least until Rashad


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Jones by whatever he wants.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

I think we're gonna see two of the most complete LHWs in the game duke it out for, hopefully 4-5 rounds. I think both guys have the power/technique to finish this one and I'm really interested in seeing Machida's versatility matched up against Jones' athleticism. 

I've got Machida on this one, but I'm realistic enough to say, it could go either way.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Squirrelfighter said:


> I think we're gonna see two of the most complete LHWs in the game duke it out for, hopefully 4-5 rounds. I think both guys have the power/technique to finish this one and I'm really interested in seeing Machida's versatility matched up against Jones' athleticism.
> 
> I've got Machida on this one, but I'm realistic enough to say, it could go either way.


"realistic enough" but not realistic all the way. Or you would know Jones will dominate Machida/


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

The problem with Machida is he doesn't have the toughness & ability to soak up punishment like Shogun or Rampage. He needs to have an absolutely perfect fight to beat Jones, he can't afford to get hit coming in and has to watch out for crazy stuff in the clinch. Unlike Rampage for instance, he can't afford to eat a few shots while getting inside to deliver some uppercuts. Machida needs to ensure that nothing connects solidly against him for however long it takes for him to win the fight, and with how evenly matched all the top guys in the division are that's gonna be very hard to do.

Personally I think Hendo, Rampage, and Shogun have the best chance of beating Jones if they use a good gameplan. They can all soak up obscene amounts of punishment while still coming forward and attacking effectively, and they've all shown the ability & willingness to do so (well, at least Rampage did in the past). Plus they have power to KO pretty much anyone once they get in range and land.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

aerius said:


> The problem with Machida is he doesn't have the toughness & ability to soak up punishment like Shogun or Rampage. He needs to have an absolutely perfect fight to beat Jones, he can't afford to get hit coming in and has to watch out for crazy stuff in the clinch. Unlike Rampage for instance, he can't afford to eat a few shots while getting inside to deliver some uppercuts. Machida needs to ensure that nothing connects solidly against him for however long it takes for him to win the fight, and with how evenly matched all the top guys in the division are that's gonna be very hard to do.
> 
> Personally I think Hendo, Rampage, and Shogun have the best chance of beating Jones if they use a good gameplan. They can all soak up obscene amounts of punishment while still coming forward and attacking effectively, and they've all shown the ability & willingness to do so (well, at least Rampage did in the past). Plus they have power to KO pretty much anyone once they get in range and land.


What makes you so sure Machida can't take punishment?

Machida's got a very good chin and Jones doesn't have one shot KO power.


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## Atras (Sep 12, 2011)

Mirage445 said:


> Jon Jones is going to go all Skyrim on Lyoto's ass!


That sounds awfully sexual, but I also don't get it...

edit: nevermind, obscure gaming reference.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> "realistic enough" but not realistic all the way. Or you would know Jones will dominate Machida/


Nah, [email protected] 

I suspect Jones will take a leaf out of Shogun's book and attack the legs to slow down Machida. That's been the most effective strategy to slow down and beat up Machida. And I expect Jones to come in with a tried and true strategy for him, which is to out-kick his opponent using his range. (Rampage is a perfect example).

The only other time Machida has fought a Greg Jackson fighter was against Evans. There the strategy was to make Machida attack and counter him. And we all saw how Evans ended up. In vs Shogun 2, Shogun utilized the counter strategy, and the same leg attack strategy, but I would bet Shogun's overhand hits a lot harder than Jones.

If Jones dominates Machida, it will be because he utilizes superior footwork and kept him at the ends of his punches and kicks. If Machida can get inside and secure a trip or lateral drop (something I don't see why he wouldn't be able to do, no one else has ever stopped a Machida clinch takedown before), he'll be in the complete unknown. No one has ever thrown Jones on his back before.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Lyoto Machida is the most technical and strategical fighter JBJ will face up to date. Both Shogun and Rampage charged forward and got hurt badly. Machida is quite the opposite. If I were Machida I would attempt to take JBJ down when he attempts a flashy move and go immediately for a leg lock early on in the round. Otherwise I see a cat and mouse type fight. 

Machida does have ONE flaw...he always circles left though. I hope he corrects this cuz Shogun was able to exploit this with his 1,2,1,2 rush in combo.

Even though I have money on Machida I know it's a very tough battle. It's not so much that JBJ is skilled...he's got these damn long legs and arms + he's pretty powerful. He can get away with sloppy strikes.

I don't know how the turn out is gonna be, but I'm pretty hyped.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

What Rampage lacked to beat Jones is exactly what Machida has. Speed and elusiveness. 

Keys to Jones' success:
-leg kicks, jab, keep Machida at range, accuracy and discipline

Keys to Machida's success:
-close the gap, cut off angles, striking match. Machida needs to catch Jones when he is kicking and aggressively attack. People are vastly underestimating Machida's odds in this one, he has the technical and physical attributes to get inside Jones's range and TKO him. Whether he comes with the right gameplan is an entirely different matter. Standing back and counterstriking= definite loss. Machida could easily win if he is willing to adapt because his usual style is predictable and it is exactly why Shogun demolished him in their second fight.


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

Atras said:


> That sounds awfully sexual, but I also don't get it...
> 
> edit: nevermind, obscure gaming reference.


Yeah, I'm a bit of a nerd.

Big whoop, wanna fight about it?! (another reference)


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## Steroid Steve (Oct 1, 2010)

rabakill said:


> What Rampage lacked to beat Jones is exactly what Machida has. Speed and elusiveness.
> 
> Keys to Jones' success:
> -leg kicks, jab, keep Machida at range, accuracy and discipline
> ...


The thing is Machida doesn't fight any other way. He doesn't adapt. I wouldn't go as far as saying he could easily win if he's willing to adapt. It's not as simple as that. I mean who knows what Jones is going to do in this fight to assume Machida will just be able to easily adapt anyway.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Steroid Steve said:


> The thing is Machida doesn't fight any other way. He doesn't adapt. I wouldn't go as far as saying he could easily win if he's willing to adapt. It's not as simple as that. I mean who knows what Jones is going to do in this fight to assume Machida will just be able to easily adapt anyway.


Jones is like Anderson Silva, easily beatable with the right gameplan. To beat these two guys the opponent must take the fight to them, standing back and trying to counter or swinging from outside of their range is what loses. You are right though, I doubt Machida will adapt, he will come in leaning back trying to counter with his karate jabs and get kicked then pummeled.


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## Steroid Steve (Oct 1, 2010)

rabakill said:


> Jones is like Anderson Silva, easily beatable with the right gameplan. To beat these two guys the opponent must take the fight to them, standing back and trying to counter or swinging from outside of their range is what loses. You are right though, I doubt Machida will adapt, he will come in leaning back trying to counter with his karate jabs and get kicked then pummeled.


Jones is different than Silva. Silva has knockout power and has knocked out guys who are overly aggressive. Running up on Jones is asking to clinch, which can lead to a world of trouble. It's about picking your poison with Jones. Do you want to stay at the end of Jones punches and kicks or do you want to go inside and clinch, with an extremely high chance of getting taken down, hoping that you'll get saved by the bell unless you have unusual core strength like Page. Neither situation is desirable. That's why fighters fight cautious when facing Jones. His clinch game is too ridiculous to bum rush him. Lets not forget he tapped two of the most aggressive strikers in the LHW division.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Times Square baby


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## Atras (Sep 12, 2011)

Mirage445 said:


> Yeah, I'm a bit of a nerd.
> 
> Big whoop, wanna fight about it?! (another reference)


I'm more of an FPS guy myself - BF3 on PS3 currently. Not nerd, though.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Steroid Steve said:


> Jones is different than Silva. Silva has knockout power and has knocked out guys who are overly aggressive. Running up on Jones is asking to clinch, which can lead to a world of trouble. It's about picking your poison with Jones. Do you want to stay at the end of Jones punches and kicks or do you want to go inside and clinch, with an extremely high chance of getting taken down, hoping that you'll get saved by the bell unless you have unusual core strength like Page. Neither situation is desirable. That's why fighters fight cautious when facing Jones. His clinch game is too ridiculous to bum rush him. Lets not forget he tapped two of the most aggressive strikers in the LHW division.


it's their unpredictable and unconventional styles that trick fighters into standing back and watching what's going to happen instead of forcing a gameplan on them. This is unique to both Jones and Silva, several fighters have commented on it and have noted it's why Sonnen had his success in being able to control Anderson Silva.


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

Machida definitely has been working on his core strength for this fight


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## rezin (May 28, 2007)

I hope this is the best dragon yet. I got tix to this event so I cant wait to see what happens.

Machida's TDD is probably his most underrated skill. He has faced numerous opponents with ver good TDs and has stuffed all I believe. His sumo training is seriously amazing. That being said, while GSP might be more explosive with his takedowns and Sonnen the most relentless, I have never seen anyone like Jones in being able to create a takedown out of nothing.

It will be very interesting to see if Jones can do that against Machida as well as whether Machida's elusive style can overcome that massive reach advantage Jones has.

Eithr way should be an interesting fight, I just hope I get more than 3 rounds of enjoyment


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## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

StandThemUp said:


> Nice Pics Lyoto Legion. I just can't help but notice the ones where Rua is smashing Machida in the face while his is unconscious are suspeciously absent from the photo album.
> 
> How did Rua, a fighter that really beat Lyoto twice, fair against Jones? Based on that, how is Lyoto going to match up with Jones?


I noticed those pictures were missing too. Strange eh!

Not sure that MMA-math (paragraph 2) is always true, but it will be in this fight. Jones is too quick, strong and athletic for Lyoto. Not to mention a ridiculous reach advantage.


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## Glothin (Jun 8, 2010)

Bonnar has given Bones the best fight yet. 

Bonnar only gives up 2" of reach on each arm. He's challenged Jones more than anyone, even Rampage.


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## jfisher (Nov 28, 2011)

Steven Seagal's help sufficient for Machida to take the win?


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

I love Machida and hate Jon Jones, but Jones is gonna murder him. All this machida love is nice, but December 10 reality will hit. But lets all get to the real issue here.

Our friend Bobbycopper will be on suicide watch after this fight. So lets us all come together and help bobbycopper. All the machida fan's in this post, its great you support machida, I do to. But reality is he is gonna lose and its not going to be pretty.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Jones will win this one. Evans has the best chance followed by Hendo


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Jones will win this one. Evans has the best chance followed by Hendo


Call me crazy but i think King Mo with improved striking and better cardio might be the man to beat jones.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> Call me crazy but i think King Mo with improved striking and better cardio might be the man to beat jones.


Crazy.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Crazy.


Well i'm gonna call your ass crazy for even suggest that Evans and Henderson have a shot to beat him. Here is my real list for people who have the best shot:

1. Anderson silva
2. Chael Sonnen
3. HWs


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## jfisher (Nov 28, 2011)

marcthegame said:


> I love Machida and hate Jon Jones, but Jones is gonna murder him. All this machida love is nice, but December 10 reality will hit. But lets all get to the real issue here.
> 
> Our friend Bobbycopper will be on suicide watch after this fight. So lets us all come together and help bobbycopper. All the machida fan's in this post, its great you support machida, I do to. But reality is he is gonna lose and its not going to be pretty.


Well althought I agree that Jones has a higher chance of winning, Machida's intelligent counter fighting could possibily pull it off


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

jfisher said:


> Well althought I agree that Jones has a higher chance of winning, Machida's intelligent counter fighting could possibily pull it off


his counter is nice but when ur giving up a foot reach its gonna be hard countering with there is a huge gap to close and really I don't see him with a speed advantage.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Nope Jones will get his wrasslin exposed by hendo and rashad, hendo always has that big hand that lands 90% of the time and Rashad is very quick too.


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## jfisher (Nov 28, 2011)

marcthegame said:


> his counter is nice but when ur giving up a foot reach its gonna be hard countering with there is a huge gap to close and really I don't see him with a speed advantage.


Hopefully Jone's inexperience will get him lured in by Machida XD


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

jfisher said:


> Hopefully Jone's inexperience will get him lured in by Machida XD


Tbh, i don't think Jones is that inexperienced anymore. His 14-1 already.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Rauno said:


> Tbh, i don't think Jones is that inexperienced anymore. His 14-1 already.



With a domination and BS DQ over Hamill, wins over Bonnar, Vera, Bader, Rampage and Shogun.

I think the inexperience would have come out by now if there was any left.


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## WassupDAWG (Nov 13, 2011)

machida will drink 10 bottles and piss before the fight and win by angry double dragon kick KO


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

Lol guys relax... Machida's got this, one thing I know for sure is that Machida is one very intelligent individual not just in his fights but in general. With the losses to Shogun and Rampage and seeing them lose to Jones im sure he knows something we don't he says hes gonna take Jones down im interested in seeing how Jones fairs from reversed roles from the bottom.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

xRoxaz said:


> Lol guys relax... Machida's got this, one thing I know for sure is that Machida is one very intelligent individual not just in his fights but in general. With the losses to Shogun and Rampage and seeing them lose to Jones im sure he knows something we don't he says hes gonna take Jones down im interested in seeing how Jones fairs from reversed roles from the bottom.


Bobby?


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Does anyone think that Machida's recent weight gain may affect his performance or cardio? A lot was made early on that he could easily drop to 185 as he wasn't that big, but with the recent addition of about 20lbs of muscle it makes that transition a little more difficult.

But to the point, could his extra weight slow him down to make him not as explosive? Could it affect his cardio assuming the fight goes the full 5 rounds?

I see the positives from it, but for Machida's style it seems like the negatives could be worse that the positives.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

cdtcpl said:


> Does anyone think that Machida's recent weight gain may affect his performance or cardio? A lot was made early on that he could easily drop to 185 as he wasn't that big, but with the recent addition of about 20lbs of muscle it makes that transition a little more difficult.
> 
> But to the point, could his extra weight slow him down to make him not as explosive? Could it affect his cardio assuming the fight goes the full 5 rounds?
> 
> I see the positives from it, but for Machida's style it seems like the negatives could be worse that the positives.


There are both positives and negatives to it. 

On the positive, Machida said in an interview he'd started adding weight training to his routines for the Thiago Silva fight, thats where he started showing real KO power in the UFC. Fron that perspective, an additional 20lbs of muscle is a good thing, more proper muscle, means more power in his punches and kicks. Does this additional muscle add to his explosivesness and ability to move in and out?

Negatively, when Machida entered the UFC, and for the majority of his UFC career, he was the least struck fighter in all of MMA (at least among the ranked fighters). However, as you look over his career, the longer he's been in the UFC, the more regularly and solidly he's been hit. Evans managed a few errant punches in their 1st round, and Shogun's ability to land is obvious, as is Rampage's, but Couture couldn't land much of anything at all. The question here becomes, is this because Rampage and Shogun are faster superior strikers to Evans and Couture, or is it because Machida's additional bulk began to slow him down? (both?)

Now I have seen most of the pictures he's put on his twitter, I don't follow too many people so I can see most of the stuff from the people I do follow, and in his case, he does look a bit bigger than he ever has. I think we'll see a stronger, more aggressive, but also slightly slower Machida than we have in the past.


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## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

rabakill said:


> Jones is like *Anderson Silva, easily beatable* with the right gameplan.


I don't know that "_easily_ beatable", and "Anderson Silva", can ever realistically be put together in a sentence.

What's interesting to me is the disparity in the skill level and speed of their respective striking , and how that may or may not be mitigated by Jones' reach advantage.

.


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

Ape City said:


> Bobby?


Second time i've been called bobby, no im not bobby.


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

An update from King Mo






Interesting is Jon Jones ready for what Lyoto brings?


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Negatively, when Machida entered the UFC, and for the majority of his UFC career, he was the least struck fighter in all of MMA (at least among the ranked fighters). However, as you look over his career, the longer he's been in the UFC, the more regularly and solidly he's been hit. Evans managed a few errant punches in their 1st round, and Shogun's ability to land is obvious, as is Rampage's, but Couture couldn't land much of anything at all. The question here becomes, is this because Rampage and Shogun are faster superior strikers to Evans and Couture, or is it because Machida's additional bulk began to slow him down? (both?)


I think it comes down to level of competition and strategy, along with Rampage & Shogun having rock solid chins and being willing to eat a few punches on the way in. Everyone else before Shogun went head hunting against Machida which is about the worst thing you can do against him since he has his head way back where it's harder to hit and he's good at keeping the range open. Plus they used mostly punches which limits the range and allows Machida to evade or counter with his own shots.

Shogun decided to kick the crap out of Machida's legs & body to slow him down and then work on hitting him in the head, and after learning how hard Machida hits from the first fight, he decided he wasn't going to respect his power in the rematch and used a far more aggressive style to close the gap and put his lights out. Rampage had more or less the same idea, he figured he could eat a few shots to close in and rough him up in the clinch, then attempt to land some of his trademark uppercuts from that position. It mostly worked.

Couture can't eat the same kind of punches as Rampage or Shogun and remain conscious so he was a lot more tentative in closing the gap. He also doesn't have that one punch KO power to put a bit of fear into Machida, there's no respect for Couture's striking so Machida can focus on countering & slipping the clinch. Not surprisingly, Couture got creamed.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

aerius said:


> I think it comes down to level of competition and strategy, along with Rampage & Shogun having rock solid chins and being willing to eat a few punches on the way in. Everyone else before Shogun went head hunting against Machida which is about the worst thing you can do against him since he has his head way back where it's harder to hit and he's good at keeping the range open. Plus they used mostly punches which limits the range and allows Machida to evade or counter with his own shots.
> 
> Shogun decided to kick the crap out of Machida's legs & body to slow him down and then work on hitting him in the head, and after learning how hard Machida hits from the first fight, he decided he wasn't going to respect his power in the rematch and used a far more aggressive style to close the gap and put his lights out. Rampage had more or less the same idea, he figured he could eat a few shots to close in and rough him up in the clinch, then attempt to land some of his trademark uppercuts from that position. It mostly worked.
> 
> Couture can't eat the same kind of punches as Rampage or Shogun and remain conscious so he was a lot more tentative in closing the gap. He also doesn't have that one punch KO power to put a bit of fear into Machida, there's no respect for Couture's striking so Machida can focus on countering & slipping the clinch. Not surprisingly, Couture got creamed.


Rampage really didn't land anything significant, he landed one uppercut I believe but nothing like the punch Shogun hit Machida with in their first fight. He mostly used clinch work and scored one takedown and won the fight based off that.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Rampage really didn't land anything significant, he landed one uppercut I believe but nothing like the punch Shogun hit Machida with in their first fight. He mostly used clinch work and scored one takedown and won the fight based off that.


He landed a lot of reaching grazing punches in the first as Machida backed up and angled out, but if memory serves, Machida's few leg kicks, which were admittedly tentative landed with more force than Rampage's punches. Machida was also throwing a few knees from the outside to the body, but Rampage was holding a low guard and tanked them on the arm, most likely to avoid being Ortiz'd by Machidas knees. 

Machida looked really tentative in that fight, coming off the bad KO to Shogun its expected, and I think the judges frowned on that and gave #1 to Rampage based on his aggression, ability to clinch and contain Machida, and Machida's apparent unwillingness to attack.

The same aggression, and the takedown, won him #2. In 2 he landed the uppercut, it was a pretty damn flush uppercut too. Said a lot about Machida's chin that he kind of appeared to ignore it and worked to get out of the clinch.


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

Squirrelfighter said:


> He landed a lot of reaching grazing punches in the first as Machida backed up and angled out, but if memory serves, Machida's few leg kicks, which were admittedly tentative landed with more force than Rampage's punches. Machida was also throwing a few knees from the outside to the body, but Rampage was holding a low guard and tanked them on the arm, most likely to avoid being Ortiz'd by Machidas knees.
> 
> Machida looked really tentative in that fight, coming off the bad KO to Shogun its expected, and I think the judges frowned on that and gave #1 to Rampage based on his aggression, ability to clinch and contain Machida, and Machida's apparent unwillingness to attack.
> 
> The same aggression, and the takedown, won him #2. In 2 he landed the uppercut, *it was a pretty damn flush uppercut too. Said a lot about Machida's chin that he kind of appeared to ignore it and worked to get out of the clinch.*



yep, ppl do underestimate Machida's chin, I mean he took sum heavy heavy shots from Rua to be Koed, but I've seen him take extreme amts of power shots in the first SHogun fight where he wasnt even rocked.


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## BodyHead (Nov 29, 2011)

I think this fight has the potential to be kind of boring. I like Jones using all his physical tools and taking a points win unless Machida gets some miracle KO shot.


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## georgie17891 (Dec 21, 2008)

hadoq said:


> I just don't see what all you guys see.
> 
> Machida seems to like standing on the outside, evade and pick aparts his opponents from there.
> 
> ...


Quoted for truth.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Machida decided to show up in the third round of the Rampage fight. The first two rounds wasn't Machida. That was a gunshy, incredibly tentative Machida who was far too concerned with Rampages power.

I'm not sure if Lyoto is the most mentally strong fighter out there. He looked notably nervous and edgy in the second Rua fight and the first two rounds of the Rampage fight speak for themselves.

I'm wondering how he is mentally going to deal with going up against a fighter with soooooo much hype and attention. I hope the real Machida shows up, because we could have a very interesting fight on our hands if that's the case. He can't be too nervous, tentative or shy, he has to be decisive and implement his gameplan.

Don't really care who wins, I'm just hoping it will be a great fight.


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Machida decided to show up in the third round of the Rampage fight. The first two rounds wasn't Machida. That was a gunshy, incredibly tentative Machida who was far too concerned with Rampages power.
> 
> I'm not sure if Lyoto is the most mentally strong fighter out there. He looked notably nervous and edgy in the second Rua fight and the first two rounds of the Rampage fight speak for themselves.
> 
> ...


Yeah your right Machida was definitely tentative in the Rampage fight up until the 3rd round. But for the Shogun fight the second one he was going in with the wrong mindset he was going in there way to confident in koing Shogun who btw probably has the best chin in LHW, yes better then Henderson becuz Henderson wud not stand if he got hit with the power shots he landed on Shogun.


Your absolutely right about Machida's mental state, thats the only thing I question when he fights any1, but if he comes with the right mindset in for Jones he shud take it by T/KO.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Had Machida had fought anyone else besides Rampage coming off the first KO loss of his career, things would have been a lot different, but Rampage is a guy known for his KO's and Machida knew that.

I think Machida has assurance in his chin and while he won't be brawling he now has confidence that he can take a shot to deliver one. He had never been touched outside of a few times before the Shogun saga so when he did get stopped he had to re-think but the shot he took in the first Shogun fight and the Rampage fight has probably made him more confident.

Jones isn't a one shot type of guy so Machida may try to press the action more than usual but we'll see come fight night, really have no clue what's gonna happen but if I was smart I'd try to attack Jones' legs as much as possible.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Machida has always come with a good mindset when he was the underdog. 
So if he shows up with a good physic condition Jones will be in for a short night.


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## cookiefritas (Jun 17, 2011)

Machida can't change his fighting style to beat Jones. The last time he tried to be too aggressive, he got KO'd by Shogun.

The launching yourself in and throwing bombs method probably won't work against Jones, Shogun tried and failed. Jones has the rare ability to throw punches and kicks while backpedaling and putting power behind them. 

The standing in the pocket won't work either because Jones will not engage in such a fight of trading blows toe to toe. The only way would be to dirty box him in the clinch, but that is a risky proposition with his wrestling and size advantage. 

I think that Machida has to control the range with leg kicks, use his elusiveness to frustrate Jones and somehow make him be the one to try and engage with punches. Jones' range and speed are really an issue for any fighter. He needs to copy what Shogun did to him, work the legs and don't go head hunting.

I don't like Jones, but big time skilled strikers like Shogun and Rampage have been unable to even land a decent blow on him, I don't see how that changes with Machida. I think that someone that can actually put him on his butt once in the clinch will be his downfall.


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

AmdM said:


> Machida has always come with a good mindset when he was the underdog.
> So if he shows up with a good physic condition Jones will be in for a short night.


That is true, but believe it or not this is the only second time hes coming in as an underdog in the UFC the only other time was against Soukoudjou. He wasn't even an underdog going in against Rashad.




cookiefritas said:


> Machida can't change his fighting style to beat Jones. The last time he tried to be too aggressive, he got KO'd by Shogun.
> 
> The launching yourself in and throwing bombs method probably won't work against Jones, Shogun tried and failed. Jones has the rare ability to throw punches and kicks while backpedaling and putting power behind them.
> 
> ...


Theres alot more then leaping in and out with Machida's style, his attck from angles and counter with precise accuracy is also essential.


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## the traveler (Dec 1, 2011)

Jones style to me seems to perfectly counter layotas style. Jones is good at striking from a distance. He's not going to need to rush in like Machida's previous opponents have had to do. He can strike Machida from far and he has shown the ability to strike at such distances and situations where his opponent has little chance to strike. When people have tried to rush jones they have paid for it. So, exactly what is Machida going to do with striking? 

Machida's best chance might be taking Jones down, but I don't see that happening at all. This just seems like it's going to be one of the biggest beatdowns. I just see this being a methodical dismantling like Shogun and ,to a lesser extent, Rampage was.


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## Aiken (May 3, 2010)

*Possible Bones Vunerability ???*

I'm not sure if it's ever been mentioned before, but something that Rampage said after his loss to Bones resonated with me. He was explaining to Rogan how difficult it was to close the distance when Bones was constantly putting his hand in his (Rampage’s) face… 

MMA rules clearly prohibit “small joint manipulation” in other words, no cranking back/apart fingers or toes – all well and good; but anybody that’s ever had a finger jammed in a ball game knows how painful and potentially debilitating such a simple injury can be. Which leads me to my point: If Bones starts waving those extraordinarily long arms around and leaves his open hands close to the face of Machida I wouldn’t think it overly difficult to for Machida to quick jab Bones fingers… 

I’m not suggesting that breaking Bones’ fingers is the only way that Machida can win; but being familiar with most (possibly all) of their UFC fights, I don’t see Machida finishing the fight “conventionally”. 

Just for the record, I don’t have a bad word to say about either of these athletes – they both embody everything I like about MMA (with the exception of the whole Machida “urinegate” thing). However, I think Bones takes this fight without too much difficulty – by the third/fourth round he will have worn down Machida enough to take him to the ground and finish the fight. 

The fact that Bones doesn’t (appear to) have one punch knock-out power means he doesn’t simply rely on landing a single big shot (I’m thinking Bader, Dan Henderson etc.). Instead he systematically breaks people down until they are ready to be finished – with his physical advantages, athletic ability, youth, creativity and ever improving MMA skills I believe he will dominate the LHW division for as long as he wants… 

Nevertheless, I can’t wait for December 10!


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

Aiken said:


> I'm not sure if it's ever been mentioned before, but something that Rampage said after his loss to Bones resonated with me. He was explaining to Rogan how difficult it was to close the distance when Bones was constantly putting his hand in his (Rampage’s) face…
> 
> MMA rules clearly prohibit “small joint manipulation” in other words, no cranking back/apart fingers or toes – all well and good; but anybody that’s ever had a finger jammed in a ball game knows how painful and potentially debilitating such a simple injury can be. Which leads me to my point: If Bones starts waving those extraordinarily long arms around and leaves his open hands close to the face of Machida I wouldn’t think it overly difficult to for Machida to quick jab Bones fingers…
> 
> ...



Jones pointing his fingers into his opponents face has got to be annoying, you can clearly see Rampage not liking it in the fight but I dont think it shud be an issue for Machida. Also even though Jones does not have "one punch" power to KO he def has those elbows that come with power. I have a feeling Machida will test the standup and if he needs he might take Jones down.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

cookiefritas said:


> Machida can't change his fighting style to beat Jones. The last time he tried to be too aggressive, he got KO'd by Shogun.
> 
> The launching yourself in and throwing bombs method probably won't work against Jones, Shogun tried and failed. Jones has the rare ability to throw punches and kicks while backpedaling and putting power behind them.
> 
> ...


Very nice post man and welcome to the forums. I agree that Machida has to control the range. It is going to be difficult with a shorter reach but I think it is his best weapon and I think grappling with Jones is a bad idea.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Dammit when are some of you guys gonna see the light. I love machida but he is not beating Jon Jones Period. U know the fight is doom for machida when u point out 10 things he has to do well to win. I don't see anywhere in this fight where i give machida the upper age.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

I agree marc, Jones will brush Machida aside, hendo and more importantly rashad are the only real chances of a victory.


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

I can tell Jones is worried when they faced eachother at the press conference, Machida's gonna KO that fool.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

xRoxaz said:


> I can tell Jones is worried when they faced eachother at the press conference, Machida's gonna KO that fool.


Machida has been in Jones head for a long time.
Did you see that video of JBJ training before the Rampage fight?
He was training for Rampage but what he was thinking about was Machida, he mentioned Lyoto and Greg Jackson cringed immediately whispering in desperation cause he knew that was being taped and the world would knew about Machida being in Jon's head.
I'll see if i can find the vid and i'll put it here if i do.


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

AmdM said:


> Machida has been in Jones head for a long time.
> Did you see that video of JBJ training before the Rampage fight?
> He was training for Rampage but what he was thinking about was Machida, he mentioned Lyoto and Greg Jackson cringed immediately whispering in desperation cause he knew that was being taped and the world would knew about Machida being in Jon's head.
> I'll see if i can find the vid and i'll put it here if i do.


yes i do remember that he said he was studying future opponents and that he knew he will have to face Machida sooner or later


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Found it.


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

thank you great vid, luv to see fighters train and utilize new techniques Jones being an exceptional one at that, but I can tell you right now I see some major holes Machida can take advantage of aslong as his right knee is healthy.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

xRoxaz said:


> thank you great vid, luv to see fighters train and utilize new techniques Jones being an exceptional one at that, but I can tell you right now I see some major holes Machida can take advantage of aslong as his right knee is healthy.


Yeah, i could see Greg pounding Jones in that video if he wanted to.


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## cookiefritas (Jun 17, 2011)

xRoxaz said:


> I can tell Jones is worried when they faced eachother at the press conference, Machida's gonna KO that fool.


Lmao. Jones does have an awkward stare down. He doesn't seem to enjoy direct eye contact, he should stick to just staring past his opponent.


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