# country vs country



## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

in light of the whole tuff series being country vs country , it got me thinking ...which countries produce the best overall talent ..although the us seemingly being the fav with such a deep talent pool , i was thinking ..if each country could have 5 current fighters represent there country in olympic style compitition , yet be ufc rules and regs ,each country allowed to pick a max of five fighters per team , which team do you think would have the most sucess and why ? :dunno:i feel like such a traitor being from canada , but my vote is for the brasilians ...possible 5 slot ? 


1. a silva 

2 maia 

3. wand 

4. shogun (old form anyway )

5. lyoto machida


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I voted Canada, we may not have the volume of great fighters that some of the others do but you gotta remember that the population density of Canada is extremely low in comparison so the number of great fighters compared to the overall population I think Canada takes this largely due to the fact that companies like MFC and TKO were such great breeding grounds for up and comers, I just hope XMMA can fill the gap TKO left behind.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

well its really hard to say being that have the people that claim to be from another country live and train in the USA like the guy we saw on tuff this last week. 

if we are talking UFC only

USA definitely has the advantage in the heavyweight (Mir Brock, Randy) and lightweight(sherk BJ Kenflow). 
canada gets the welterweight with GSP
Brazil gets middle wight with Anderson. 
We will see who gets the light heavy when Rashad fights Machida. probaly brazil with machida. 

It would all depend on the weight classes the teams are in it would also depend on the coach. If randy coached team usa that would be a winner there. 

I guess I would give a slight edge to the USA.


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

americanfighter said:


> well its really hard to say being that have the people that claim to be from another country live and train in the USA like the guy we saw on tuff this last week.
> 
> if we are talking UFC only
> 
> ...


ok but i guess i meant to say other fighters youd like to see in the ufc that arent there currently or might come in the future .

then u gotta consider rusia having serious hw contenders as well ..

fedor , arlovski , crocop , goran relic (although not a heayvy ) , some pretty stout competitors as well .:thumbsup:


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

duncanjr said:


> then u gotta consider rusia having serious hw contenders as well ..
> 
> fedor , arlovski , crocop , goran relic (although not a heayvy ) , some pretty stout competitors as well .:thumbsup:


oh yha I just didnt know we were talking about people outside of the ufc.


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## simtom (Oct 23, 2007)

*USA:* Brock, Rampage, Marquadt, Fitch, BJ
*Canada:* ???, Krzysztof, Cote, GSP, Sam Stout
*Brazil:* Werdum, Machida, A Silva, Alves, JZ
*Russia:* Fedor, Matushenko, ???, ???, ??? (dont know much about m-1)
*UK:* Mostapha al turk, Freeman, Bisping, Dan Hardy, Terry Etim
*Japan:* ???, Nakamura, Okami, Satoru Kitaoka, Aoki


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## Evil Ira (Feb 9, 2009)

I voted for the U.K. I'm a bit biased, but I honestly think it has an underrated pool of talent. Think of guys like Mostapha Al Turk, Michael Bisping, and Dan Hardy. They all come from the U.K.


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## simtom (Oct 23, 2007)

Evil Ira said:


> I voted for the U.K. I'm a bit biased, but I honestly think it has an underrated pool of talent. Think of guys like Mostapha Al Turk, Michael Bisping, and Dan Hardy. They all come from the U.K.


lol, well I do think UK does have underrated fighters.. but I wouldnt put Al Turk in there ^^ If anything its guys like Paul Daley and Terry Etim! and Paul Taylor has awesome standup but his ground game is very weak ! He dropped Marcus Davis hard but minutes after trying to finish him on ground he was caught in a sub!


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## HeavyRob (Nov 3, 2008)

I picked USA strictly out of ignorance, arrogance and other negative terms. Oh and patriotism, but that can be good.

I honestly don't know many fighters from most of those countries and honestly haven't thought much about matchup like this until the new season of TUF. what an interesting idea...


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## Pannett (Sep 20, 2008)

duncanjr said:


> ok but i guess i meant to say other fighters youd like to see in the ufc that arent there currently or might come in the future .
> 
> then u gotta consider rusia having serious hw contenders as well ..
> 
> fedor , arlovski , crocop , goran relic (although not a heayvy ) , some pretty stout competitors as well .:thumbsup:


Cro Cop and Reljic are from Croatia. Croatia was never a part of the USSR, it used to be Yugoslavia.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

This question has been asked before and it obviously boils down to the US and Brazil always, those are the only ones that have the quantity to back up the quality. All others have a few top fighters here and there (Fedor, Arlovski, GSP, Okami, Sakurai, Aoki, Bisping) but that's it.

At this point I'd say it's Brazil, but it's always close between the two. They have Anderson and Machida obviously, IMO the #1 MW and LHW in the world. Then they got the #1 WW contender Thiago Alves. They kinda fall short at LW, but other than that they got a solid list of top 10 contenders in every division. You got the teams:

HW: Big Nog, Gonzaga, Werdum, Junior Dos Santos, Antonio Silva
LHW: Machida. Thiago Silva, Luiz Cane, Shogun (or Lil Nog if "old shogun" is dead), Babalu, 
MW: Anderson, Wanderlei, Maia, Belfort, Leites
WW: Thiago Alves, 4 other dudes
LW: Hermes Franca, Thiago Tavares, Rafael Dos Anjos, Gleison Tibau, one more dude

I think they take it easily at LHW and MW, but WW and LW would go to the US. HW could go either way, with guys like Brock, Cain, Carwin and Mir on the US side.


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## AmRiT (Apr 23, 2007)

duncanjr said:


> ok but i guess i meant to say other fighters youd like to see in the ufc that arent there currently or might come in the future .
> 
> then u gotta consider rusia having serious hw contenders as well ..
> 
> fedor , arlovski , crocop , goran relic (although not a heayvy ) , some pretty stout competitors as well .:thumbsup:


Arlovski, Cro Cop and Reljic aren't Russian

Arlovski is from Belarus

Cro Cop and Reljic are from Croatia

--

Per weight class I would say it's really a competition between USA and Brazil (In the world, not just UFC)

USA: Mir, Evans, Marquardt, Fitch & Penn
Brazil: Nog, Machida, Silva, Alves & JZ

I make it Brazil 3 - 2 USA

With Mir, Machida, Silva, Alves and Penn winning


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## diemos (Nov 7, 2007)

I'd have to agree AmRiT mostly, but Fitch and Alves is a toss up.


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## OmicMMA (Nov 19, 2007)

I am from Canada. I do see Canada as being top three, and not biased either. (originally from bosnia) I think the best country for Mixed Martial Artists is Brazil! You cannot deny it. World wide they have the deepest talent pool. The thing that the USA has going for them, people have to realize is their strong wrestling base. Wrestling is huge in the states. In canada, not so. We have wrestling in schools but its not crazy like that. In the UK they have never even heard of wrastlin, :thumb02: and brazil, kids learn triangles in grade 2. 

I do believe that USA has an amazing amount of talent, but for the size of the country i would expect more. What the US has is alot of world class wrestlers, who then learn to punch and kick. Which as much as i hate to say it i respect. I am not a wrestler, but the more i strive to get better, the more i need to learn wrestling. 

For me this is how i see things;

Brazil
USA
Canada (only because we have 1 champion but soon to have more i promise you that)
Russia (fedor is an exeption, he is not human, lol. But Russia has great base in *****, and they will continue to put out heavy flabby contenders all day long)
UK and that include all of europe
and i think everyone else falls after these.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Here is something to consider though,

Poplaion of Canada 32,212,696
US, 306,181,000
Brazil 190,997,000
Russia 141,850,000
Japan, 127,610
UK, 61,612,000

So considering the populations and the fact that Canada has Cote, Kang, Lousou and J-Mac in the middleweight division alone leaves me with no other option Canada wins, the US and Brazil have the advantage of sheer volume and Russia loses so bad its not even a competition Fedor or not.


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## CroCopPride (Jan 13, 2007)

duncanjr said:


> ok but i guess i meant to say other fighters youd like to see in the ufc that arent there currently or might come in the future .
> 
> then u gotta consider rusia having serious hw contenders as well ..
> 
> fedor , arlovski , crocop , goran relic (although not a heayvy ) , some pretty stout competitors as well .:thumbsup:


ARE YOU RETARD?

AA is from Belarus
and CC and relic are croatian 

here ill help you out

Croatia















Belarus








Russia


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Here is something to consider though,
> 
> Poplaion of Canada 32,212,696
> US, 306,181,000
> ...


I was about to do this, but you beat me to it. 

It's not just the number of fighters, but the ratio of fighters per capita, as well as the development of a country. 

I'm sure Russia will start churning out a lot more elite MMA fighters, with their population size you'd expect them to have a lot more, but the country as a whole hasn't embraced it the way the US and Brazil have. Or maybe they just prefer *****.
Canada, for it's size is definately producing a high volume of good fighters for such a small population base, and I think you will see the same from the UK now that MMA is taking off there.


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## simtom (Oct 23, 2007)

> Here is something to consider though,
> 
> Poplaion of Canada 32,212,696
> US, 306,181,000
> ...



Population means nothing -_- china has like 1.4 billion so they should have the best fighters? Its about training facilities and how much % of the population actually train! Or how many promotions there are in a country for people to make a decent living fighting! 90% of UK dont even know what MMA is! bringing up population is just stupid in general


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## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Here is something to consider though,
> 
> Poplaion of Canada 32,212,696
> US, 306,181,000
> ...


If Japan only has a population of 127 thousand I'll literally squeeze a log of shit out in my pants right now.


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## eric2004bc (Apr 27, 2008)

i voted britan, coz the queen is a secret MMA pro with super powers


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## BrFighter07 (Jun 16, 2007)

im prettty sure Brazil would win if you look at the top tens I bet Brazilians make up the majority of the spots


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## evilappendix (Jan 4, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Here is something to consider though,
> 
> Poplaion of Canada 32,212,696
> US, 306,181,000
> ...


This logic of yours is a bit skewed honestly. Population density has nothing to do with which country produces better fighters... Brazil hands down wins this without batting an eye. They have produced and continue to produce more top ranked fighters than any other country. In fact, if anything, a greater population means a greater potential to create better fighters. The US is a close second because we throw money at everything and therefore have some of the best training facilities the world has to offer. Japan is obviously in the mix as well but they tend to struggle with the heavier weight classes. I still don't understand why no one acknowledges Holland's top strikers in polls like these. The ground game is lacking with them, but fights always start standing.:thumb02:


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Judging by nearly all the rankings out there, USA has by far the most fighters ranked. This idea that Brazil has the best fighters in the world is greatly exaggerated.


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## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

duncanjr said:


> in light of the whole tuff series being country vs country , it got me thinking ...which countries produce the best overall talent ..although the us seemingly being the fav with such a deep talent pool , i was thinking ..if each country could have 5 current fighters represent there country in olympic style compitition , yet be ufc rules and regs ,each country allowed to pick a max of five fighters per team , which team do you think would have the most sucess and why ? :dunno:i feel like such a traitor being from canada , but my vote is for the brasilians ...possible 5 slot ?
> 
> 
> 1. a silva
> ...


First off you said ufc rules. You have five fighters Silva Maia and Wand are same weight class and shogun and Machida are in another one together. So tecniqually you might dominate one maybe two weight divisions. I went ahead and picked the usa so I would have a good chance of winning all divisions.

155 BJ Penn
170 Fitch
185 Henderson
205 Im going with Rampage (Rashad is my alternative)
Heavy weight Brock Lesnar

So in conclusion I would Have to go with the usa on this one.


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## Tsentralnaya (Apr 7, 2009)

I'd have to say Eastern Europe.


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## RWMenace (Aug 10, 2008)

Tsentralnaya said:


> I'd have to say Eastern Europe.


:thumb02: I would too.


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## SlaveTrade (Apr 27, 2007)

Here's how I see it.

The country that produces the best LW fighters overall is Japan. Japan's LW roster is simply amazing. (Takanori Gomi, Shinya Aoki, Hayato Sakurai, Kawajiri, Ishida, Uno, Kitaoka, Genki Sudo, etc.)

The country that produces the best WW fighters overall is US. While Georges St. Pierre may be the best WW fighter on the planet, you can't ignore the talent the US produces. (Josh Koscheck, Jon Fitch, Jake Shields, Matt Hughes, Matt Serra, Carlos Condit, Nick Thompson, etc.)

The country that produces the best MW fighters is a bit more tricky. You could give an argument for Japan (Akiyama, Okami, etc) or Brazil (Santiago, Andy Silva, Belfort, Maia, etc) or America (Dan Henderson, Nate Marquardt, Rich Franklin, Robbie Lawler, etc). In this one, I'd give the edge to America overall. 

The country that produces the best LHW fighters is between America and Brazil. In USA, you have Rashad, Quinton, Chuck, Keith, Forrest, etc. In Brazil, you have Wandy, Thiago, Rogerio, Shogun, Lyoto, etc. In this one, I'd give the slight edge to America overall.

The country that produces the best HW fighters is USA. While Russia has Fedor, Aleks, Sergei, etc, and Brazil has Rodrigo Noguiera, Werdum, Bigfoot, etc, USA has Barnett, Mir, Lesnar, Couture, Sylvia, etc. USA wins this one pretty clearly.

Overall, I'd have to say that the US overall has the best talent.. which is funny because I voted for Brazil but after breaking it down, I have to go with the US.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

evilappendix said:


> This logic of yours is a bit skewed honestly. Population density has nothing to do with which country produces better fighters... Brazil hands down wins this without batting an eye. They have produced and continue to produce more top ranked fighters than any other country. In fact, *if anything, a greater population means a greater potential to create better fighters*. The US is a close second because we throw money at everything and therefore have some of the best training facilities the world has to offer. Japan is obviously in the mix as well but they tend to struggle with the heavier weight classes. I still don't understand why no one acknowledges Holland's top strikers in polls like these. The ground game is lacking with them, but fights always start standing.:thumb02:


I bolded the part that helps me with my point, if a greater popuation means a greater potential to create better fighters than an abnormally large number of great fighter coming from a small population is more impressive, I dont understand why ist difficult, if one country has one in a million is a great fighter an the next its one in two million than the first country is superior. I dont care if country nuber one only has 5 million or 5 great fighters an if country 2 has 30 million or 15 great fighters because all things being equal the first country could have twice as many great fighters.


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

Slavetrade pretty much broke it down perfect. I have to agree and go with Usa here. Completely ignoring my bias.


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## Evil Ira (Feb 9, 2009)

Britain only gets 5% of the votes? Wow it is underrated...


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

evilappendix said:


> This logic of yours is a bit skewed honestly. Population density has nothing to do with which country produces better fighters... Brazil hands down wins this without batting an eye.


The ratio of population/quality fighters is very relevant. If a country with 300 million produces 5 top ten guys and a population with 30 million produces 4 top ten guys then which country is "better" at MMA? Obviously the country that "only" produced 4 top ten guys because they did it working with only one tenth the talent of the bigger country. Right now Brazil and the US are definitely the deepest overall in terms of producing the most quality fighters but Canada probably has the best ratio of quality/population. 

If you did a team competition where only 5 or 10 guys were competing then there would be a LOT of countries that could potentially win that (US, Brazil, Russia, Japan, Canada). The larger the team the more it would favour the US and Brazil since they obviously have more depth than any other countries right now. If China started seriously getting into MMA then they would overtake almost everyone very quickly because with their massive population they would have an easier time finding talent than anyone else.


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## evilappendix (Jan 4, 2007)

Toxic said:


> I bolded the part that helps me with my point, if a greater popuation means a greater potential to create better fighters than an abnormally large number of great fighter coming from a small population is more impressive, I dont understand why ist difficult, if one country has one in a million is a great fighter an the next its one in two million than the first country is superior. I dont care if country nuber one only has 5 million or 5 great fighters an if country 2 has 30 million or 15 great fighters because all things being equal the first country could have twice as many great fighters.


But this poll isn't about which country has the best talent per capita... Its asking which country would take a five man tourney given their current roster of top level fighters. I understand what you're saying completely, it's just irrelevant to the subject at hand: Which country would dominate , 5 fighter teams , who are current well known pros? Do you see now? You're making very valid points, just for the wrong argument my friend.


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