# ***OFFICIAL*** Mark Munoz vs Damian Maia Pre/Post Fight Thread



## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Let's talk about this awesome fight on this thread and not make a ton of different ones Saturday night.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I'm a fan of both guys but once Munoz gets Maia to the ground and lands some of his GnP I think it will be over. Standing I actually would give the edge to Maia, his boxing has come a long ways since the Marquardt fight. Tricky matchup either way.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Maia by submission. I think he will outpoint Munoz on the feet for a bit and then reverse a takedown, end up on top and get some sort of choke.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Maia by submission. I think he will outpoint Munoz on the feet for a bit and then reverse a takedown, end up on top and get some sort of choke.


I feel the same :thumbsup:


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

munoz by haymaker KO 1 minute in


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

I love the sleepy dominant style Maia has been using lately. He performs great but has a fedor-esque look on his face the whole time like he couldn't give two shits.



I think Maia easily outstrikes Munoz standing and avoids any powershots, forces Munoz to sprawl then does his patented reverse sprawl to guard move.


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## mattandbenny (Aug 2, 2007)

This is a pick'em for me. Great fight, great match of styles. Munoz has looked far better than Maia recently, but i think Maia is much more talented and has more experience against better competition. I'll go with Munoz though, Maia couldnt sub Kendall Grove in 3 rounds of having him on the floor, and i think Munoz will stuff more takedowns and win the stand up for a UD win.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

mattandbenny said:


> This is a pick'em for me. Great fight, great match of styles. *Munoz has looked far better than Maia recently*, but i think Maia is much more talented and has more experience against better competition. I'll go with Munoz though, Maia couldnt sub Kendall Grove in 3 rounds of having him on the floor, and i think Munoz will stuff more takedowns and win the stand up for a UD win.



Uhh... 


I guess you missed where Maia dominated Grove easily, taking him down at will and controlling him on the ground for two rounds then beating him standing easily for the third round... Then Grove vs. Munoz where Munoz nearly got finished a half dozen times by Grove in a fight where the first 2 rounds were 10-8.


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## mattandbenny (Aug 2, 2007)

Munoz has had 3 fights since then, so i wouldnt call the Grove fight 'recent'. May aswell bring in the Maia-Marquardt fight if we're going back that far. 

Its not hard to take Grove down at will and with the jui jitsu credentials of Maia, it was dissappointing not to see him submit him. With Munoz's wrestling he'll be a lot harder to take down, and he'scoming off a great knockout of CB Dolloway within a minute.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Maia. I don't think Mark can last on the ground without being subbed, and Maia will outpoint him all day long standing. I think he'll get Munoz down similar to how he took Sonnen down, and finish it from there relatively quickly.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

I don't think Munoz is great but how many times have we seen great jitz guys struggle with big wrestlers? I don't know much about Munoz's sub defense. He has no sub losses but looking at his record he hasn't fought anyone I consider really threatening on the ground unless you count CB and that fight obviously never tested his ground game. If Munoz has any kind of sub defense this could be a long night for Maia.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I wonder what Mark and the rest of Blackhouse thinks of this




















EDIT: oops now I know


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

This is a big X-factor fight:

1. Munoz clearly has the power to knock-out Maia

2. Maia clearly has the BJJ to submit Munoz

In the end i think this will come down to where Munoz wants this fight to take place.

He has the wrestling to take Maia down, but i don't know if he wants to do that. Why risk going to the ground with one of the best BJJ practitioners in all of MMA?!! :confused02:
I can only imagine he would do it, after hurting Maia on the feet. 

On the feet, it's an odd match: Maia seems to have a technique advantage (as strange as it sounds), but he can't do any damage with his punches and if he allows the fight to become a striking match, thinking he could outpoint Munoz, he takes a BIG risk, of getting KO'd/ 

Munoz may not have the best technique, but he has huge power in his hands.

He could very well accept a striking battle, in wich Maia would score more points, but that would give him the chance to knock out Maia.
Maia's punches don't seem to cause any trouble anyway. 

Take 10 soft punches, give one knock out punch - seems like a fair deal, right?! 

THye have one thing in common: both have fought Kendall Grove, and the fights are so different.

Maia dominated, but couldn't finish.
Munoz was dominated, but came back and finished.

Maia hasn't finished anyone since August 2009, after 5 straight submissions to start his UFC career with.

Munoz has shown big improvements in his last fights and seems to become more and more confident in his skills.

This is a 54/46 fight for me.

_PS: not gonna say who's at 54 and who's at 46 _






Is that Fabricio Werdum @ 3:14?!?!?! :confused02::confused02::confused02:


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Drogo said:


> I don't think Munoz is great but how many times have *we seen great jitz guys struggle with big wrestlers?* I don't know much about Munoz's sub defense. He has no sub losses but looking at his record he hasn't fought anyone I consider really threatening on the ground unless you count CB and that fight obviously never tested his ground game. If Munoz has any kind of sub defense this could be a long night for Maia.


Maia is different. No wrestler will control Maia on the ground, period. His BJJ control is second to none. We've seen guys like Frank Mir say he got demolished on the ground by Maia and Maia's subbed Gonzaga twice in competition. And we all saw what he did to the best wrestler at 185 in Chael. Nobody's gameplan against Maia will ever be to take him down and control him, hell if Velasquez or Lesnar fought Maia they'd keep the fight standing. 


Really the question in this fight is can Munoz power through to land a Marquardt style punch early? Maia used to start every fight with two front head kicks and Marquardt used that knowledge to crush him, but Maia has evolved standing immensely since then.

Limba - the thing about Maia not submitting anyone recently is a lot due to his opponents. He's so feared on the ground now that people straight up defend when it goes to the mat. They don't try to reverse, they don't try to counter, they don't try to attack - they just defend and it's incredibly hard to sub someone when their only focus is defending. 

edit: JDS has been training with Maia for a long time now, Munoz and Maia have trained together too IIRC. Basically the only guy at Blackhouse that doesn't like Maia (or have trained with Maia) is Silva. And maybe Jacare actually, not really sure how those two stand.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Limba - the thing about Maia not submitting anyone recently is a lot due to his opponents. He's so feared on the ground now that people straight up defend when it goes to the mat. They don't try to reverse, they don't try to counter, they don't try to attack - they just defend and it's incredibly hard to sub someone when their only focus is defending.


That's my opinion also, but he seems to have slowed down just a bit with his BJJ attacks. He's not been so aggressive.

Reading some articles on the Internet since i posted in this thread, i've started leaning towards the idea of Munoz keeping the fight standing and trying to knock out Maia, while avoiding the clinch and not letting Maia pull guard.

And read that a guy named Marcel Louzado is been helping Munoz prepare for Maia's jiu-jitsu for some time now.

Marcel Louzado defeated Maia in BJJ competitions several times, so he knows a thing or two.

_PS: that was Werdum training with Munoz (did some research). That helps also_


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

limba said:


> Marcel Louzado defeated Maia in BJJ competitions several times, so he knows a thing or two.



Source? Just making sure you're not confusing him with Marcelo Garcia.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

khoveraki said:


> Maia is different. No wrestler will control Maia on the ground, period. His BJJ control is second to none. We've seen guys like Frank Mir say he got demolished on the ground by Maia and Maia's subbed Gonzaga twice in competition. And we all saw what he did to the best wrestler at 185 in Chael.


You may well be right, I'm not saying Munoz will control Maia but I'm not convinced it is out of the question. Sonnen is the only decent wrestler Maia has fought in MMA and triangle choking Sonnen means almost nothing, he has lost many times to triangles from guys no where close to Maia's prowess.

Again, I'm not trying to dismiss Maia's ability on the ground, he is one of the absolute best in the world but I've seen so many BJJ guys lose fights to wrestlers now that they are virtually all decent at least at defending subs (Sonnen is a notable exception) that I would never say never to a top control decision loss to a wrestler even with guys like Maia, Jacare, Palhares.


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## peanuts40 (Mar 20, 2011)

I'm really hopeing Munoz pulls this one off, but unfortuantly i have to go with Maia by some sort of choke. But just for the sake of it i will change my mind and go Munoz by TKO 3rd round.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> *Source?* Just making sure you're not confusing him with Marcelo Garcia.





> Fight "X-Factor:" A man named Marcel Louzado. He's been helping Munoz prepare for Maia's vaunted jiu-jitsu for quite some time. Why is this a big deal? He's defeated Maia in Brazilian jiu-jitsu (BJJ) tournament competition several times throughout his career.
> 
> How much Munoz will be able to absorb from Louzado is another question altogether, but he's definitely got his head in the right place.


MMA Mania

Plus, like i've said, Munoz trained a lot with Werdum...it has to mean something...


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

I don't think that Munoz should be showing that "brutal ground and pound" in this fight. It just gives Maia a lot to work with in terms of submissions. That would almost be like giving his arm up as an early Christmas present.

If Munoz drops Maia first, that's the only way I can see him being effective with ground and pound, after Maia is already rocked.

If Maia can avoid getting caught standing, I think that he should win this fight comfortably.


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

I'm really, really intrigued by this match.

Admittedly, I'm rooting for Maia, as I've really come to appreciate his style; and I've always thought Munoz is a bit overrated... but stylistically, I'm intrigued here.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

I've got Munoz.


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

i just hope they aren't scared of each others ground skills and decide to strike all day long..


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

Maia hasnt done to bad against wrestlers in the past, Miller Sonnen and Herman. So I think he will take this. His stand-up has improved aswell recently.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Maia UD, don't think he will sub Munoz but I think he will do enough to control Munoz and win the fight.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

It's been a while since we've seen a Maia submission win. That's probably because the guys he has been facing lately have been all about defense. Munoz on the other hand is very aggressive, and will look to finish. I think that will be his downfall and Maia will get the submission victory.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Maia can win this by submission or knockout I believe.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

This Maia looks HUGE compared to the last Maia we've seen.

And much much stronger.

And his striking is sharp. :confused02:


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

HOLLY SHIT

who would have thought Maia would have an exciting standup battle where he controls the ring.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Maia is going to soon become much more dangerous at MW than ever before


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

This is exactly why Jacare is a much better fighter than Maia. Maia's takedowns are so lame.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Well, that's a sudden change, 1-1 going into the third.


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## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

Good GOD how interesting is this fight? Maia shows up with some killer striking, Munoz showing some great wrestling and control. They're pretty well balanced in the grappling exchanges so far. 

That strike the wobbled Mark in the beginning looked like it was to the back of the head. He seems like he's recovered since then but man what a surprise.

I laughed at Munoz charliehorsing the shit out of Damian's legs though.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

limba said:


> This Maia looks *HUGE* compared to the last Maia we've seen.
> 
> And much much stronger.
> 
> And his striking is sharp. :confused02:


Maybe that's why Maia slowed down so much...


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

This might just be a fight of the year contender....


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

limba said:


> Maybe that's why Maia slowed down so much...


He slowed down because Munoz drilled him in the face pretty hard.


third round should be even, but slight edge to Maia.


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## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

Bet it's a draw!


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

*draw!*


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## sg160187 (Apr 11, 2010)

footodors said:


> Bet it's a draw!


I'd be happy with that slightly leaning towards Munoz though


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

how could it be a draw? all the rounds were 10-9

WTF 30-27 HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?!?!


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

I gave it 29-28 to Maia I wouldn't be surprised if the judges gave Munoz a insurmountable lead for stalling against the cage like that is really winning a fight.

Edit:Maia needs to find the judge that scored it 30-27 and punch him in the face.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Don't agree with that decision at all. 

and 30-27 WTF?!?!?!?! Murder that judge now.


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## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

Though Maia edged it, but 30-27 from one judge. Come on man.


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## A Rich Ace (May 1, 2008)

I feel like that decision was a little generous. I don't know.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

WHo is the crazy ahole that scored the first round for Munoz? I dont think it was a bad decision, it was close enough that it could have gone either way, there is just no way in hell Munoz won the first round.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Yeah that wasn't 30-27, Maia clearly took Round 1, Munoz did win though, I had it 29-28, another great fight tonight, card is turning out real nicely.


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## IcemanJacques (Mar 18, 2009)

Great fight. But I fail to see how on judge could possibly give Mark Munoz that first round. A draw or Demian Maia in a very close decision was how I saw it.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

The judge who gave 1st rd to Munoz should be shot.

Why the F*uck does every UFC event have at least one retarded decision!?!



osmium said:


> Edit:Maia needs to find the judge that scored it 30-27 and punch him in the face.


He should armbar him.


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## anderton46 (Apr 23, 2010)

Had it 29-28 either way, depending on if the judges scored the control from Munoz or positioning by Maia in the third. 30-27 though is a bit mad. Seeing as I thought the 1st was clearly Maia's and the 2nd clearly Munoz's


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

limba said:


> The judge who gave 1st rd to Munoz should be shot.
> 
> Why the F*uck does every UFC fight have at least one retarded decision!?!


Fixed.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Who the hell scored this one 30-27? Fire his ass on the spot.


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## atm1982 (Feb 26, 2008)

Munoz is a top notch guy and it is far from a robbery but Maia won that fight. 30-27? Come on. I thought they had monitors now. 

It used to be that bad judging ruined it for the fighters but, as a fan, to see judges consistently misjudging matches, really bugs me and takes away from my enjoyment. It is hard to enjoy a fight when you know it isnt even judged properly. Imagine any other sport with this many mistakes. Ridiculous and disheartening.


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## Steroid Steve (Oct 1, 2010)

It seems like every UFC event, there's at least one fight that goes to a decision where a judge scores it retardedly. Shit needs to stop...


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

Don't know how 30-27 comes up, usual eye roll there but 29-28 either way you can't argue with in a fight that close. I thought Munoz jusssst edged it out late in the 3rd but I can see 29-28 Maia. Good fight although they both gassed a little in the 3rd.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

I gave it to Munoz. 30-27 was kind of retarded though. No way in hell he won the first round. But he did win the 2nd and 3rd in my opinion.


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## peanuts40 (Mar 20, 2011)

Yeah i don't understand that at all. I had Munoz winning round 2 and 3, but if any round was clear, it was the first round with Maia taking it. All and all, happy that Munoz won...but seriously? how could he score that first round for Munoz?


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Munoz took it for sure. He controlled most of the fight, did more damage and out grappled Maia.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

What the f*ck happened to judges having cageside monitors?!

Are they watching porntube on those monitors?!!?


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Scored it for Munoz but to score it 30-27 just demonstrates pure incompetence. Fire the muthafucka and I'll do his job for him from now on.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

I had
Rd 1 - Maia
Rd 2 - Munoz
Rd 3 - Very very close but edge to Maia for sub attempt and pressing action


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

wrong thead


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I agree with most everyone. I like Munoz, and I'm not unhappy he won but I thought Maia took it 29-28. A 29-28 for Munoz is not unreasonable though and I wouldn't consider it a robbery.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Who was the judge that thought Maia lost the first round? Can't wait to see the fightmetric of this fight because Maia wrecked Munoz IMO. 1st + 3rd were clearly for Maia.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

the 30-27 was indeed retarded and I think the same judge did that 3 times. the mizugachi, florian and this fight had undeserved 30-27's.

As for Munoz/Maia. I wouldn't call this a robbery and was pulling for munoz. I scored the 1st round for Maia, the 2nd for Munoz and couldn't personally score the 3rd.

Both men didn't really do enough to win that round and no one was ever in a real position to lose it. It all came down to what the judges were looking at.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

I had it 1st for Maia, 2 and 3 for Munoz... weird that everyone else is calling it 29-28 Maia... I'll have to rewatch tonight and see exactly what I missed. I think Munoz won the last round just because of his takedowns, which I'm totally against, but by the rules I think he won.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> I had it 1st for Maia, 2 and 3 for Munoz... weird that everyone else is calling it 29-28 Maia... I'll have to rewatch tonight and see exactly what I missed. I think Munoz won the last round just because of his takedowns, which I'm totally against, but by the rules I think he won.


I was thinking that takedown/throw looking move was the biggest moment of the round so I thought that would tip the scales in Munoz's favor for sure.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Man I was really hoping Maia would get the win here... I got extremely excited when he clipped Munoz early.


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## tyler90wm (Oct 8, 2008)

The only round that is questionable is the 3rd.

Maia won the 1st; Munoz the 2nd...


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

3rd could of gone to either imo, with the 1st to Maia and 2nd to Munoz. So I'm not really pissed about the decision. It was a very close fight.

The judge who scored 30-27 is an asshat... seriously Munoz did NOTHING in round 1. Abysmal.


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## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

I also had Maia winning it 29-28, but I admit that I am a Maia nuthugger. But, I wouldn't call giving Munoz the W a robbery... this is simply a matter of opinion. Great fight overall. 

I thought Maia's striking improved immensely, and can't wait to see him in another couple of months to check his growth. 

And, I;ve never been all that impressed with Munoz, and tonight didn't change my mind. He's a solid mid-tier fighter who has a great deal of momentum behind him. Let's see where he goes from here.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

That fight was clearly a draw. Damien won round 1, Munoz round 2 and round 3 was even. The judge who scored it 30-27 should be banned.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Munoz is over rated. He's such a sloppy fighter. Put em with Brian Stann and he'll get KOed unless he goes with his wrestling as always. It pains me to watch him fight.


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## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

Wasn't a robbery, but I'm glad I've come on here and found people questioning the judging. 29-28 either way was just about acceptable, I had it 29-28 Maia, the judge who scored 30-27 is an embarrassment, and if it was the same one who gave Florian 30-27, then he should pretty much be ejected from life, and replaced by an intelligent block of cheddar cheese, since it would do a better job.


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## tommydaone (Feb 19, 2010)

*How did you score Maia vs Munoz?*

I personally had it down as

10 - 9 Maia
10 - 9 Munoz
10 - 10 Draw

That last round was too close to call in my opinion. I was amazed when I heard one judge gave it 30-27?! I have no idea how Munoz could be given that first round. There were a number of other dodgy judges decisions again tonight, but I didn't see the undercard fights.

Surely it's time for a change to the judging system? Your thoughts?


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Munoz 29-28

Maia won Round 1
Munoz won Round's 2 and 3.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

I scored it a draw.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> I scored it a draw.


So did I.

judge that scored it 30-27 must be cecil peoples


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

29-28 munoz


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Draw, but I can see Munoz taking it. I can't see Maia taking it though, so I guess I'm okay with Munoz getting the W.


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

Scored it a draw as well. Pretty disappointed with the result, since I actually wanted Maia to win. A draw would have been fairer.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Anybody else find Munoz painful to watch. He flails his arms, extremely sloppy, just another wrestler converted into an "mma fighter." Hope they feed em Stann...I want Stann to KO the shit outta of em.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

29/28 Munoz, I have seen worse than 30/27 Munoz I don't think its that sick that one judge gave him the first, well guess been wrong is still been wrong but I have seen far more clear rounds given wrong.

I see Palhares in Munoz's future, would be a sick fight hope the UFC puts it together.


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> Anybody else find Munoz painful to watch. He flails his arms, extremely sloppy, just another wrestler converted into an "mma fighter." Hope they feed em Stann...I want Stann to KO the shit outta of em.


Munoz doesn't have great striking technique, but he has decent power and good wrestling. If you are a smart fighter, who knows how to use your strengths and capitalize on an opponents weakness, those two things alone can take you a long way. Ryan Badar is the same, Kos, Fitch and half a dozen other guys. Those reason wrestlers convert to MMA, is because it's easy and profitable for them to do it, so why shouldn't they? Everyone else better learn to defend themselves from wrestling.

You must not like Stann if you want him to fight Munoz, Stann gets put on his back and loses that fight 4 of 5 times at least.


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## Hennessy (Feb 28, 2011)

How any judge can score this 30-27 is BEOYOND me!!

With judges like that, the game is doomed. I am so angry its not even funny anymore.

How in the F*ck could anyone give the first round to Munoz? How? Please, anyone explain this to me.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Demian won this fight!!

If at all it was a draw because of the thrid round, but I gave that to Maia as well.

Maia had Munoz in huge trouble twice won the first round easily and did much more in the third.


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## Hennessy (Feb 28, 2011)

I am actually glad that at leat Dana see the judging issue too:

http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/06/12/dana-white-discusses-ufc-131-blasts-bob-arum-and-gary-shaw/

Apperently Omigawa got robbed in the prelims also. DW will pay him his win bonus anyway. Good thing.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Finnsidious said:


> Munoz doesn't have great striking technique, but he has decent power and good wrestling. If you are a smart fighter, who knows how to use your strengths and capitalize on an opponents weakness, those two things alone can take you a long way. Ryan Badar is the same, Kos, Fitch and half a dozen other guys. Those reason wrestlers convert to MMA, is because it's easy and profitable for them to do it, so why shouldn't they? Everyone else better learn to defend themselves from wrestling.
> 
> You must not like Stann if you want him to fight Munoz, Stann gets put on his back and loses that fight 4 of 5 times at least.


You're right I grow wary of wrestling based fighters...lolz. Stann lost to HW wrestlers in which Munoz is himself. However at 185 with his new training camp I believe he can be a major threat. It's also no surprise those fighters are not champions other than Cain. GSP is a true MMA who incorporates wrestling and can strike. Sadly he doesn't try to finish anymore. That's what makes the Machidas, Andersons, Makdessi, Pettis, Oliviera, Rory's, Barbozas, JDS, etc. all the more exciting.

I think if too many wrestling based fighters come in it'll dillute the UFC. I'm a fan, but I don't want to watch Phil Davis (cool dude) vs Lil Nog, Rashad vs Rampage, Fitch vs Penn (round 3) or Guida vs Pettis. The latter fight was only exciting because of Showtime threatening off his back the entire time. Penn should have won against Fitch had he had a bit of gas left in the third to make a fight out of it. 

Although Munoz can finish with his "donkey shots" his striking lacks finesse. I believe he's winning purely on his weight and strength. So why not pit him against a former 205er with raw power. 

Palhares would be an interesting match up, but I want to see Stann.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Hennessy said:


> I am actually glad that at leat Dana see the judging issue too:
> 
> http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/06/12/dana-white-discusses-ufc-131-blasts-bob-arum-and-gary-shaw/
> 
> Apperently Omigawa got robbed in the prelims also. DW will pay him his win bonus anyway. Good thing.


Dana always sees the issue, but he never tries to fix it. It needs much more then words..

The comission is trying to ruin his Sport.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> Dana always sees the issue, but he never tries to fix it. It needs much more then words..
> 
> The comission is trying to ruin his Sport.


the commission is his boss unfortunately and all he can do which he is doing is telling to effing fix the problem, if it was up to dana we would probably have the japanese judges and rules and criteria, but the U.S has 'different standards' ugh


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> the commission is his boss unfortunately and all he can do which he is doing is telling to effing fix the problem, if it was up to dana we would probably have the japanese judges and rules and criteria, but the U.S has 'different standards' ugh


It can't be that hard! I don't believe it.

John McCarty came up with these rules 15 years ago.. and now nobody can change them ever again? :confused03: 

I thought Dana has influence..


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> It can't be that hard! I don't believe it.
> 
> John McCarty came up with these rules 15 years ago.. and now nobody can change them ever again? :confused03:
> 
> I thought Dana has influence..


well you can bring a case to the commission but they will likely turn down the awesome japanese mma criteria and judging and yellow cards and rules. thats the problem with america, everyones scared of bringing in too much violence and some people dont want to change dinosaur laws and rules


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

All this talk about the scorecards.. was I the only one super excited about Maia's stand-up in the first round? Can't wait to see with what kind of skill set he shows up next time!
And the dude has some chin as well. Took some legit shots in the second, but got back right away.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Leed said:


> All this talk about the scorecards.. was I the only one super excited about Maia's stand-up in the first round? Can't wait to see with what kind of skill set he shows up next time!
> And the dude has some chin as well. Took some legit shots in the second, but got back right away.


Well, Maia now has a loss on his record which shouldn't be there. He was (is) the better fighter!! He demonstrated it that night and got punished for it..

He should move up in the ladder instead of Mark.


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> You're right I grow wary of wrestling based fighters...lolz. Stann lost to HW wrestlers in which Munoz is himself. However at 185 with his new training camp I believe he can be a major threat. It's also no surprise those fighters are not champions other than Cain. GSP is a true MMA who incorporates wrestling and can strike. Sadly he doesn't try to finish anymore. That's what makes the Machidas, Andersons, Makdessi, Pettis, Oliviera, Rory's, Barbozas, JDS, etc. all the more exciting.
> 
> I think if too many wrestling based fighters come in it'll dillute the UFC. I'm a fan, but I don't want to watch Phil Davis (cool dude) vs Lil Nog, Rashad vs Rampage, Fitch vs Penn (round 3) or Guida vs Pettis. The latter fight was only exciting because of Showtime threatening off his back the entire time. Penn should have won against Fitch had he had a bit of gas left in the third to make a fight out of it.
> 
> ...


 You're right Munoz definately won't be an elite fighter, not for quite awhile anyway, but he's the archetype of the wrestlers flooding MMA. Most won't make it to the top, but they can beat a lot of guys because wrestling is the most valuable single skill set to have.

It's really up to anyone coming into MMA to recognize this and address it early in their career. Otherwise you will get guys like Stann, who have a very good skill set, but are weak in wrestling, and they will lose all day long to guys like Munoz. This has nothing to do with how I like either one of them, thats just the way it is.

Palhares would be an interesting match, I'd rather see that one.

I thought the JDS/Carwin fight was a great example though, of how you don't have to be a great wrestler to address the issue though. JDS has good TDD and great striking, and that was still enough to beat a top notch wrestler. Stann better take notes on that if he wants to make it to the top.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Well, Maia now has a loss on his record which shouldn't be there. He was (is) the better fighter!! He demonstrated it that night and got punished for it..
> 
> He should move up in the ladder instead of Mark.


On this occasion, I completely agree with you.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Well, Maia now has a loss on his record which shouldn't be there. He was (is) the better fighter!! He demonstrated it that night and got punished for it..
> 
> He should move up in the ladder instead of Mark.


I agree, there's no doubt Maia had more offense if you consider the fight as a whole. Unfortunately we have a scoring system in effect that doesn't think of a fight as a whole but three equal rounds.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> I agree, there's no doubt Maia had more offense if you consider the fight as a whole. Unfortunately we have a scoring system in effect that doesn't think of a fight as a whole but three equal rounds.


He still won it that way!

There is no way you can score the third round for Mark. If at all, it has to be a clear draw or a round for Maia.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

munoz won end of story and maia looked more messed up and admittance of defeat anyways


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## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

Finnsidious said:


> You're right Munoz definately won't be an elite fighter, not for quite awhile anyway, but he's the archetype of the wrestlers flooding MMA. Most won't make it to the top, but they can beat a lot of guys because wrestling is the most valuable single skill set to have.
> 
> It's really up to anyone coming into MMA to recognize this and address it early in their career. Otherwise you will get guys like Stann, who have a very good skill set, but are weak in wrestling, and they will lose all day long to guys like Munoz. This has nothing to do with how I like either one of them, thats just the way it is.
> 
> ...


I agree w/ everything except using JDS v. Carwin for your example. Carwin is a tier 2 wrestling champion, and not to take anything away from that that, but it isn't like creme' de la creme' credentials. Also, Carwin has never used his wrestling abilities as a staple in his fights.


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## Hennessy (Feb 28, 2011)

BobbyCooper said:


> It can't be that hard! I don't believe it.
> 
> John McCarty came up with these rules 15 years ago.. and now nobody can change them ever again? :confused03:
> 
> I thought Dana has influence..


especially considering that he can put on 5 minute non championship rounds just like that...

But I just dunno to be honest. I don't have that much background knowledge to have a sophisticated opinion here.

All I can do as a fan is HOPE.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Hennessy said:


> especially considering that he can put on 5 minute non championship rounds just like that...
> 
> But I just dunno to be honest. I don't have that much background knowledge to have a sophisticated opinion here.
> 
> All I can do as a fan is HOPE.


Yea, I am sure something is going to change in the next year definitely. 

It cannot go on like that. The UFC is starting to look rigged!


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