# Thiago Silva hurt, Shogun's people "want nothing to do with Glover Teixeira"



## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

*Thiago Silva hurt, Shogun's people "want nothing to do with Glover Teixeira"*



> The UFC's injury woes continue as Brazilian light heavyweight Thiago Silva has been forced to pull out of July's UFC 149 event in Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
> 
> Luckily for UFC president Dana White, promotional newcomer Glover Teixeira (18-2 MMA, 1-0 UFC) is both healthy and hungry for a big fight after a scintillating win over Kyle Kingsbury at this past weekend's UFC 146 event.
> 
> ...


http://mmajunkie.com/news/28995/thi...9-ufc-wants-shogun-rua-vs-glover-teixeira.mma

What the hell's so special about Glover Teixeira?


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Are Shogun's people afraid of him or what?

so what if Shogun would get KO'd? As long as he comes to fight and does his best it's all good.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

The Hype Joe Rogan made about the guy his last fight probably has Shoguns camp a little spooked. Add in the fact that he isnt a big name and there is basically little motivation to accept the fight. Ofcourse not wanting to accept this fight while Dana White is trying to make it happen will probably get him a pay bonus incentive to take it.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

All I can think of is I hope Thiago Silva hasn't damaged his back any more. The guy had such potential but it's been the start of a real downslide for the guy.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

What's "The Mauler" up to? that would be a fun fight!


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Fellow MMAFORUM members what would YOU do if you were Shogun and what would YOU do if you were his manager. 

I highly doubt Shogun is afraid of anybody...period. From a managerial and career standpoint what does Shogun have to gain from fighting a rookie... Glover should be fighting Gustaf, The Janitor, The Hippo...not a fricken bonafide legend at this stage of his career.

Damn right they refused cuz Glover is dangerous and there's NO UPSIDES to this fight other than money. I think it's an embarassment the UFC even offered it. Having the accolades (Pride/UFC LHW, Grand prix champ) and history Shogun or any legend has should hold some value. 

I want to see Shogun vs Rampage x 2, Thiago Silva, Rashad, Lil Nog x 2, Hendo x 2, not a rookie man...not until Glover proves himself worthy.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Step up Mr Bonnar!!!


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

No_Mercy said:


> Fellow MMAFORUM <a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#">members</a> what would YOU do if you were Shogun and what would YOU do if you were his manager.
> 
> I highly doubt Shogun is afraid of anybody...period. From a managerial and career standpoint what does Shogun have to gain from fighting a rookie... Glover should be fighting *Gustaf*, The Janitor, The Hippo...not a fricken bonafide legend at this stage of his career.
> 
> ...


I hope you're not talking about Alexander Gustaffson, because Gustaffson's literally one win away from a title shot, some guy who just beat up Kyle Kingsbury shouldn't be getting top five fights.

Shogun vs. Gus works, Shogun vs. Rashad would be even better too and you can just give Gustaffson the winner of Jones/Hendo. I've wanted to see it for years and no one wants to see Shogun/Jones 2 or Jones/Evans 2, they're regressing, Jones is progressing. So why not? People aren't gonna buy UFC 149 anyway because of Aldo/Koch, Shogun/Rashad would easily help that card out big time.


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

Rua and his management probably don't feel that Glover is a big enough name and doesn't deserve to fight a guy like Rua. I guess I can see it and I sort of agree. But at the same time this guy has a pretty impressive record and has not lost since 2005. In any case Rua has a lot more to lose in this one. Rua obviously has no desire to fight this guy, if this fight happens Rua might lose only because he will not have the motivation.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

No_Mercy said:


> Fellow MMAFORUM members what would YOU do if you were Shogun and what would YOU do if you were his manager.
> 
> I highly doubt Shogun is afraid of anybody...period. From a managerial and career standpoint what does Shogun have to gain from fighting a rookie... Glover should be fighting Gustaf, The Janitor, The Hippo...not a fricken bonafide legend at this stage of his career.
> 
> ...


Who is there to fight? there aren't exactly 20 contenders waiting in line. And its not like this would hurt his chances of getting another shot at the belt if he won. Sure I'd love to see Shogun vs Rampage, and thats the only one that is really the most appealing to me.

Hows fighting Thiago Alves any better than Teixeira? Thiago is basically on a 3 fight losing streak, and his last fight was really unimpressive. Tex might have more hype around him then Thiago at this point. Not to mention Thiago is on the bottom of the rankings, so how will a win against him be anymore credible than one against Tex? He just wants a easy win vs Thiago if he doesn't want to fight Tex.

I really don't care about Tex, but for you to make those points, and not take into consideration where Thiago stands in the rankings is a bit silly. 

Not to mention, it won't take much to get another title shot in the LHW division, two really good performances, doesn't matter who they are against, should give Shogun another title shot.


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## BigPont (Nov 19, 2007)

Shogun will eventually take the fight. It'll just take a little more money. Otherwise, Dana will keep embarrassing him in public like this. He's making it seem like Shogun is scared and I'm sure he's not happy about it.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> I hope you're not talking about Alexander Gustaffson, because Gustaffson's literally one win away from a title shot, some guy who just beat up Kyle Kingsbury shouldn't be getting top five fights.
> 
> Shogun vs. Gus works, Shogun vs. Rashad would be even better too and you can just give Gustaffson the winner of Jones/Hendo. I've wanted to see it for years and no one wants to see Shogun/Jones 2 or Jones/Evans 2, they're regressing, Jones is progressing. So why not? People aren't gonna buy UFC 149 anyway because of Aldo/Koch, Shogun/Rashad would easily help that card out big time.


I was brainstorming. Gustaf vs Shogun would make a lot more sense although he did beat Thiago. Gustaf beats Shogun then he gets the next title shot for sure. If Shogun wins he's "back in the mix" as they say. But Glover...nah...he doesn't deserve it yet. 

Somebody TWEET Dana now about Gustaf vs Shogun!


TO SPEC: Just noticed your comments.

Well put it this way. You've spent your entire career forging your name. It's up to you to decide who you fight is it not. I think him/his camp have earned that right. Glover is dangerous and if he wins that would pretty much place Shogun (former LHW champ) at the bottom right next to Machida which is insane. Cuz these two should be top three or five. 

Fights fans like ourselves always want good fights. But I'm just stating that I can see where they are coming from. There's too much to lose at this point. He lost to JBJ, lost a very hard fought battle against Hendo (probably the best fight I've witnessed in MMA history after carefully going over the catalog of fights I've seen since 1993.) He CAN NOT afford to lose another one especially against a very dangerous rising star. But you see that's where JDS is a beast cuz that guy fought anyone at anytime; Roy Nelson, Mirko, Gilbert Yvel (super dangerous striker), Brock/Carwin even though he was already guaranteed a title shot...but he was on a huge winning streak and had momentum. So Shogun and his entire camp see how pivotal this fight is for them. One moment he's fighting for legacy (which is pretty much in stamp) then next he's fighting for his job. Crazy turn of events...

So I'd go with Gustaf as a solid replacement.


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## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

Don't be scared Shogun!

With that said, I understand his position, not really much to gain from the fight.

Still sucks though.


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

This is one of those *incredibly rare* moments I find myself appreciating Chael Sonnen... just fight. If it's a fight the guy doesn't deserve because he's not good enough for you, then you should beat him soundly right? If he beats you, he clearly deserved the fight in the first place.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

BrianRClover said:


> If it's a fight the guy doesn't deserve because he's not good enough for you, then you should beat him soundly right? If he beats you, he clearly deserved the fight in the first place.


thank you.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

I feel for Shogun, the guys willing to fight Rampage...who pulls out then Thiago Silva who pulls out and now he get's an unknown fighter who he won't be able to study and properly train for. It's rough for the guy.

However,

He was given a title shot against Machida with wins over Coleman and Liddell, a title shot which he lost and was then granted an immediate rematch. The UFC needs men to fight for the 205 title which means developing prospects. Also keep in mind he's facing someone who is actually two years older than him. But if Shogun loses then it's time to drop down to MW. Hell retire Anderson and hold a Grand Prix.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

is he even able to drop to MW?

and if he could, dropping weight is not the solution to everything. Draining your body affects your cardio and, I believe, shortens your career in the long run.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

hellholming said:


> is he even able to drop to MW?
> 
> and if he could, dropping weight is not the solution to everything. Draining your body affects your cardio and, I believe, shortens your career in the long run.


Right now he's a .500 fighter at 205 in a division that's going to likely be reenforced with HW's. The current MW top five all features men who fought at 205. And for Shogun with his knee issues, cutting down his body weight can only help him. Right now he has maybe two years left at 205 at MW maybe he'll last till 40.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

BrianRClover said:


> This is one of those *incredibly rare* moments I find myself appreciating Chael Sonnen... just fight. If it's a fight the guy doesn't deserve because he's not good enough for you, then you should beat him soundly right? If he beats you, he clearly deserved the fight in the first place.


Shogun is a former champ and a more accomplished fighter. It's no different than Hendo, Couture or Rampage wanting big fights. 

Sonnen on the other hand is a mid level guy trying to make his way up by any means necessary.


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## Ludinator (Mar 15, 2012)

Rua is 4-4 in the Ufc now, and were I can understand some points I can't understand others. Thiago Silva was probably a worse fight for him, silva is on a 3 fight losing streak and is probably lower in the ranks than glover. I feel like Rua maybe a bit scared here, he doesn't want to lose and he has nothing to gain, but I think he has nothing to gain from any other fight at the minute either. I think he's maybe 3 fights away from another shot at the title and I think he needs to realise that.

Shogun vs Davis makes sense here with everything happening.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

I understand why Shogun wouldn't want to take the fight. Glover is still unknown to a lot of casual fans, but he still has a lot of skills to give Shogun potential problems. In a nutshell, he's a nightmare for any top 5-10 guy who wants big names. It's almost like your fighting a can in casual fan's eyes that might hand you your ass, and if you win in a tough fight, no one is going to care even though you just beat an extremely solid opponent.

Ranking wise, Shogun can't complain. Silva has been going down hill and has been inactive a lot, so Glover is actually ahead of Silva in the rankings. Silva just has a lot more name value which ultimately should be what a fighter is after if they want to sell themselves. In my personal opinion, I think that Glover would beat Thiago Silva decisively and I'd enjoy watching that fight, so I'm sure Shogun's camp isn't trying to insult Glover or anything.

Props to Teixeira because of him looking for tough fights. He's obviously in a hurry to become a contender and it's nice to see he's not ducking anyone along the way. It would actually be cool to see him fight Shogun in more ways than one. Such as possibly wanting to avenge his friend's loss.  They could hype him up as Chuck Liddell's protege wanting revenge. Kind of a stretch, but I can't say I wouldn't be excited.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> the fact that he isnt a big name and there is basically little motivation to accept the fight.


That's your issue. Glover has some big power and looks pretty impressive, but he still has no name. Shogun has nothing to gain and everything to lose in this fight


Sent from my Evo3D using the official MMAForum app!


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

One word, Gustafsson. He and Shogun are two of my favourite fighters but I would love to see them go at it.

I was initially surprised at the idea that Shogun turned down a fight, but it does make sense. Word is that he's on very good form in training and coming off fight of the year with the current title challenger, fighting Glover is understandably not appealing to him. I think he'd accept fights with Gustaf and Evans, either one is a great match and makes more sense in the rankings.

Not sure why Dana is putting so much pressure on him to take the Glover fight, I hope this is sorted soon and Rua stays on the card.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Here are my top replacements.

1.) Gustaf
2.) Lil Nog
3.) Davis 

Now if Shogun took Glover and took him out viciously I think that would put the LHW immediately on notice. But is the reward worth the risks. He loses to Glover and his stock will plummet like the Facebook stock!


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## Ludinator (Mar 15, 2012)

SM33 said:


> One word, Gustafsson. He and Shogun are two of my favourite fighters but I would love to see them go at it.
> 
> I was initially surprised at the idea that Shogun turned down a fight, but it does make sense. Word is that he's on very good form in training and coming off fight of the year with the current title challenger, fighting Glover is understandably not appealing to him. I think he'd accept fights with Gustaf and Evans, either one is a great match and makes more sense in the rankings.
> 
> Not sure why Dana is putting so much pressure on him to take the Glover fight, I hope this is sorted soon and Rua stays on the card.


Dana is trying to push up and comers through the ranking for Jones other wise the devision is stuck. Using big names for up and comers is smart and if glover was to win then he would only be 1 fight away from title shot and jones has challengers. Problem is when fighters start to think there to good for fighters like glover then the devision is in trouble.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> *The Hype Joe Rogan made about the guy his last fight probably has Shoguns camp a little spooked. *Add in the fact that he isnt a big name and there is basically little motivation to accept the fight. Ofcourse not wanting to accept this fight while Dana White is trying to make it happen will probably get him a pay bonus incentive to take it.


Do you really think Shogun and his team need Rogan to tell then who Teixeira is?
He's been "killing" people left and right in Brazil,
i'm sure they know how good that man is and how likely a loss against him is.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

No_Mercy said:


> Fellow MMAFORUM members what would YOU do if you were Shogun and what would YOU do if you were his manager.
> 
> I highly doubt Shogun is afraid of anybody...period. From a managerial and career standpoint what does Shogun have to gain from fighting a rookie... Glover should be fighting Gustaf, The Janitor, The Hippo...not a fricken bonafide legend at this stage of his career.
> 
> ...


Glover would probably beat him, that's why he doesn't want to fight him.


I lost a bit of respect for Shogun on this, this is the type of shameful ducking you see in boxing.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

> Thiago Silva suffered an injury and is out of UFC 149 event scheduled to take place in July in Canada, UFC and working to get a new opponent for Shogun.*
> 
> In an interview with MMAJunkie, the organization's president, Dana White revealed that the team turned down a fight against Shogun Glover Teixeira athlete who debuted last Saturday with victory over Kyle Kingsbury, but they have not given up this fight to marry .*
> 
> ...


Dana, recently confessed to lying to Faber, may be blowing some hot air in our direction right now, I'm waiting for more info.

http://tatame.com.br/2012/06/01/UFC--Thiago-lesionado-UFC-quer-Shogun-x-Glover


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

I also think Rua is ducking.

Beating Teixeira carries no less prestige then beating Thiago Silva, so I'm not buying the idea that Tex doesn't deserve the fight.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Bonnar.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Soojooko said:


> I also think Rua is ducking.
> 
> Beating Teixeira carries no less prestige then beating Thiago Silva, so I'm not buying the idea that Tex doesn't deserve the fight.


Yeah, the idea that the UFC can't sell a fight that isn't even a main event is preposterous, and I fail to see how beating Thiago Silva gets him higher up the rankings than a guy who actually won his last fight.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

If Shogun thinks he can beat Bones in a rematch then why can't he take the fight with Teixeira and beat him too?


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

This fight should never have been offered to Shogun. I'd rather See:

-Machida/Shogun III
-Rashad/Shogun
-Gustaffson/Shogun


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Big_Charm said:


> This fight should never have been offered to Shogun. I'd rather See:
> 
> -Machida/Shogun III
> -Rashad/Shogun
> -Gustaffson/Shogun


This was probably a get right fight for Shogun, the UFC is probably gonna do Shogun/Machida III for TUF Brazil and they likely want both guys coming off wins.

Rashad isn't a good style match up for Shogun, Shogun has gassed in every grappling heavy fight he's had in the UFC and Jones/Gustaffson is easier to market than a rematch between Jones and Shogun.

Really hope they do Shogun/Rashad though.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Except, Glover is a gimme fight for no light heavyweight. He may not be well known, but the guy is legit and wouldn't be a walk in the park for Shogun. Of course the UFC may not have realized this yet.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

According to MMAFighting.com, Glover's trainer says there is interest on both sides, and the UFC has not contacted Gustaf to propose a Shogun fight.

http://www.mmafighting.com/ufc/2012...ago-silva-out-of-ufc-149-fight-against-shogun


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

AmdM said:


> Do you really think Shogun and his team need Rogan to tell then who Teixeira is?
> He's been "killing" people left and right in Brazil,
> i'm sure they know how good that man is and how likely a loss against him is.


Lmao... out of everything said in this thread THATS the part you wanna quote. Haha holy sht. Crazy stuff.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

I'd like to see Gustaf/Shogun. But not sure if the UFC wants that fight. They love to protect any potential young stars. 

Not sure if Lil Nog will be healthy. But I wouldn't mind that fight. But then again Nog shouldn't be given Shogun coming straight off an injury.


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## jaw2929 (Dec 9, 2011)

Because Teixeira would beat Shogun, pure & simple. It'd boost him up into becoming a big name and it'd mar Rua's legacy a bit, THAT is why Rua's camp won't take the fight.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

That's a lil strange. I'm sure Shogun has no problem fixing Glover, I mean... he fought Dan Henderson and Jon Jones, it can't be much worse than that. I think it's a good match up that Shogun can win, I hope the fight happens.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

jaw2929 said:


> Because Teixeira would beat Shogun, pure & simple. It'd boost him up into becoming a big name and it'd mar Rua's legacy a bit, THAT is why Rua's camp won't take the fight.


Not really , Teixeira would not beat Shogun. I love how he beats Kyle Kingsbury and people are saying he can beat Shogun.... That's a laugh.:thumbsdown:


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

There are plenty of interesting opponents for Shogun outside of Thiago Silva. Gustaf. Glover. Rampage. Lyoto (scrap the Bader fight). This really should be an easy fix, with a presumably better outcome. 

Gustaf vs. Shogun seems like a no-brainer.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Gustaf vs. Shogun seems like a no-brainer.


oh yeah, I'd love to see that one.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Big_Charm said:


> Not really , Teixeira would not beat Shogun. I love how he beats Kyle Kingsbury and people are saying he can beat Shogun.... That's a laugh.:thumbsdown:


Yeah, just like people said Jon Jones would destroy Shogun after he beat Ryan Bader. That's a laugh. :thumbsdown:


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

People also said that Frankie Edgar would make Ben Henderson look foolish, that Shogun would make Dan Henderson look slow, that Cain would steamroll JDS using wrestling, that Anderson would KO Chael in the first, etc.

The moral of the story? None of you have a crystal ball or know jack shit


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Pretty sure I picked Benson, Henderson and Anderson in all of those fights.


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

They don't want the fight because Shogun is a professional fighter and pros need to weigh risk and reward. Fighting Teixeira would be lose-lose. 

If Shoguns wins, which he almost certainly would, so what? The casual fan would have no idea who he was fighting and the win would mean nothing. If he lost though, it would be a huge setback for him and cost him a ton of $$$. I'm sure Shogun's camp isn't the least bit afraid, they just understand the fight makes no sense from a career building perspective for Shogun.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

Roflcopter said:


> Yeah, just like people said Jon Jones would destroy Shogun after he beat Ryan Bader. That's a laugh. :thumbsdown:


The difference is Jones is an anomaly... he's got crazy talent and only a few people saw that fight going that way.

Glover has talent, but he's no where near as skilled as the names shogun fought and does absolutely nothing for Shogun in the rankings.

This matchup makes no sense, he should be matched up with the following (like I stated before)

Machida/Shogun III
Gustaffson/Shogun
Rasha/Shogun

Hell, I'd even rather see Bader fight him as he just came off the Rampage win.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

No there's no difference, Teixeria is a much better boxer with the power to hurt the very aged and slow Shogun and would probably take Shogun out if Shogun wasn't able to work his wrestling game and get him down and maybe grind out a decision.

As far as this asinine "OH HE'S TOO GOOD FOR THIS FIGHTER"...this isn't ******* boxing....you fight who is put in front of you and clearly, on short notice, Glover is by far the best guy and all the true fans of the sport know how dangerous of a fight it is for Shogun to show that Shogun is truly still a contender at this point...which I doubt he is.


As far as these retarded "casual fan" sentiments...please kill yourself before saying anything else that might drop the collective intelligence of this forum any further.

The casual fan doesn't know who the **** most fighters are...they know GSP, Jones, Anderson and a few other name fighters, but these guys just want to see it because it's the UFC and it's trendy and because they want to see some brawls. THe casual fan couldn't identify Antonio Silva out of a lineup, that doesn't mean that what Cain did to him didn't have the masses clamoring. The casual fan had barely seen Shogun fight before he knocked out Machida....the casual fan isn't relevant because he's a fairweather bandwagon fan that only cares about the action inside the cage and not more abstract things such as relevance of wins, and ranking systems.

If the UFC catered their entire brand to the "casual fan" they'd look like ******* PRIDE or EliteXC and championship fighters would be fighting local celebrities in 3 minute affairs. SHut the **** up and go to a corner somewhere and think harder about your terrible opinions.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Well I got to say wherever shogun is in the title picture they need to send him to the bottom after this. I hate it when people dodge fights like this. The only legit excuse for not taking a fight is if you already earned a title shot and are waiting for the champ.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

Roflcopter said:


> No there's no difference, Teixeria is a much better boxer with the power to hurt the very aged and slow Shogun and would probably take Shogun out if Shogun wasn't able to work his wrestling game and get him down and maybe grind out a decision.
> 
> As far as this asinine "OH HE'S TOO GOOD FOR THIS FIGHTER"...this isn't ******* boxing....you fight who is put in front of you and clearly, on short notice, Glover is by far the best guy and all the true fans of the sport know how dangerous of a fight it is for Shogun to show that Shogun is truly still a contender at this point...which I doubt he is.


"True fans" I like how you put that in there.... I've been watching MMA for many years, don't throw that crap in my face. 

Of course Teixeira is dangerous, never said he wasn't. I rather see a more relevant fight with the mentioned above, that's just me. Agree to disagree :thumbsup:


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Well maybe one can consider themselves a fan if they watch a bunch of high profile UFC PPVs for years....however that really wasn't the demographic I was speaking of.

Mainly because the former demographic fails to realize that guys like Rampage and Forrest and Shogun are barely relevant fighters anymore and will have to fight to EARN their spots as relevant contenders. Shogun can do precisely that by beating a dangerous, hungry fighter who stylistically should give him a ton of problems...

Instead of just giving him retreaded fights between the same fighters that keep consistently losing fights like Machida, Rampage and whoever. 

Secondly, Gustaffson isn't available, but there's really nothing about this guy that makes him that much better than Teixeria...just 2 years ago the dude got steamrolled by a fringe top 10 one dimensional wrestler in Phil Davis...who was equally green by the way.

Texieria is polished and in the prime of his career right now and poised to make a title run. True fans have realized that this guy was arguably the best fighter not in the UFC above 170lbs...

By all means, show me how this so called legend does again a guy who is undefeated in 7 years...who has finished 14 of his 18 victims in the first round, including a palette of UFC vets and fighters....a guy who has stopped JDS conqueror Joaqim Ferriera and Mir conqueror Pe De Pano on the Brazilian circuit at HW. A guy who consistently shown world class boxing skills and has not only knocked out 11 men, but has separated himself from the one dimensional mooks of the division by showing off his legitimate BJJ black belt skills and showing excellent finishing skills on the ground with his submissions.

It will certainly tell me a lot more than a third fight with a guy he already beat twice...or a probable decision loss to a guy like Rashad.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

No_Mercy said:


> Fellow MMAFORUM members what would YOU do if you were Shogun and what would YOU do if you were his manager.
> 
> I highly doubt Shogun is afraid of anybody...period. From a managerial and career standpoint what does Shogun have to gain from fighting a rookie... Glover should be fighting Gustaf, The Janitor, The Hippo...not a fricken bonafide legend at this stage of his career.
> 
> ...


This. The only reason Shogun doesn't want this fight is because Teixera is still a freaking nobody and doesn't deserve to fight Shogun. All risk no reward for Shogun at all. If he wins he beat a nobody, if he loses his stock will absolutely plummet.

This fight makes sense for everyone except Shogun. If Shogun was in his prime i'd say go for it but the guy is in the twilight of his career he needs to be very careful not to lose to an up and comer or it may be over.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Pretty sure I picked Benson, Henderson and Anderson in all of those fights.


As usual, you miss the point entirely.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Ape City said:


> This. The only reason Shogun doesn't want this fight is because Teixera is still a freaking nobody and doesn't deserve to fight Shogun. All risk no reward for Shogun at all. If he wins he beat a nobody, if he loses his stock will absolutely plummet.
> 
> This fight makes sense for everyone except Shogun. If Shogun was in his prime i'd say go for it but the guy is in the twilight of his career he needs to be very careful not to lose to an up and comer or it may be over.


Shogun doesn't deserve to fight Glover. Shogun barely has a name...don't kid yourself into thinking this dude is some megastar in the United States.

Glover has actually been winning fights, something Shogun hasn't done consistently since 2005.

Again, somewhere along the line delusion set in and people started thinking they were private promoters of boxing fighters....something that Dana White has criticized for the last 8 years.

You don't duck fighters in the UFC, and you consistently prove yourself against top tier fighters. 

He has no "stock"....his "stock" is the facade that he's still a top 5 fighter, and if you want to further exponentiate this facade by having him lose to other fighters like Rashad and Machida....then you don't really deserve to have an opinion.


BUT WAIT, OMG SHOGUN WAS A PRIDE GRAND PRIX WINNAR!!! THAT TOTALLY MEANS HE GETS A TOP 5 EMERITUS RANKING AND NEVER HAS TO FIGHT ANYONE GOOD ON THE RISE EVAR AGAIN!


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Haha, Shogun doesn't have a name in the US? Do you pull these 'facts' out of thin air? 

Disagree with you entirely about Rua having no name. I think you make a lot of shite up. Agree completely, however, with Shogun vs. Glover. I personally would love to see that fight. I immediately wanted to see him thrust in with the big players following what was an all but perfect debut.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Most people I spoke to had never seen the guy fight until he won the title. He's not a big deal by any stretch of the imagination. Just an example of how UFC marketing still works.

And God knows it needs to when you consider how awful and inconsistent he's been in his US run.

No one knew what PRIDE was..outside of the same real fans that know who the hell Glover Teixeria is.

He came in against Forrest as a product of marketing and hype and failed miserably.


The same was true about Anderson except even fewer people knew about him because he didn't come directly from PRIDE and was on the British circuit for a while. Except he actually DID live up to his billing, and was fan voted into a title shot his very next fight.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Roflcopter said:


> Shogun doesn't deserve to fight Glover. Shogun barely has a name...don't kid yourself into thinking this dude is some megastar in the United States.
> 
> Glover has actually been winning fights, something Shogun hasn't done consistently since 2005.
> 
> ...


No, Shogun was the former UFC Champion who knocked out Machida.

I'm the biggest anti-Shogun guy on this forum but you're reaching severely here, have you actually seen who Glover has beat? Ricco Rodriguez who was just knocked out by Seth Petruzelli who amounted to nothing in the UFC, Antonio Mendes who was beat by the grossly overrated Thiago Silva and Kyle Kingsbury who got routed by Stephan Bonnar who hasn't beat anyone good, ever.

Give Shogun that list and Shogun would stomp them out just as easily. Shogun isn't a megastar in the US but he is a perrenial contender, a former Champion and has the ability to beat Rashad, Bader, Hendo, and Gustaffson on any given day.

Has Shogun lost some fights here and there? Absolutely because he's been fighting the best in the world something Glover hasn't.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Speaking of Ricco Rodrigues, also a UFC champion, so that means he's a big deal AMIRITE?!

And no, Shogun would probably lose to all 4 of those guys sans Bader...and maybe Gustaffson as he's quite overrated as well.


And he'll probably lose to Glover once he grows a pair and stops ducking him.


Also, was Shogun fighting the best in the world when he stopped the mighty MARK COLEMAN in a slopfest? Or how about the totally not shot to shit Chuck Liddell?

Or the 2011-current rendition of Forrest Griffin(who Glover would obliterate by the way)..


Guess he's going to live off that Machida win for the rest of his career and act like it entitles him to mega-fights for all of eternity.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Roflcopter said:


> Speaking of Ricco Rodrigues, also a UFC champion, so that means he's a big deal AMIRITE?!


Was Ricco Rodriquez the UFC Champion last year? No, he wasn't.

Shogun is still a top ten fighter and possibly top five, Ricco Rodriquez is a washed up past his prime fighter still trying to collect a few checks, if you can't see the difference you need some serious help.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Another thread full of disrespect. Glover is a known underground force and he looked great in his UFC debut, I'd love to see him pushed up the ladder sooner rather than later.

However, one fight is not enough to get a Shogun who is coming off a very close loss to the current title challenger. Rampage would be ideal, big name coming off a loss to an at the time mid-tier fighter, he deserves to be fighting newcomers.

Shogun needs a rising star like Gustaf to make a statement with, or someone like Rashad coming off a loss to the Champ. Machida would make sense too, but he's booked and for the sake of variety I do not want that fight yet.

Really, the fact that Glover has been offered this fight is a massive diss to Gustaf, he's worked his way up and is without a fight, Rua is exactly the type of fight he needs to earn a title shot.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Was Ricco Rodriquez the UFC Champion last year? No, he wasn't.
> 
> Shogun is still a top ten fighter and possibly top five, Ricco Rodriquez is a washed up past his prime fighter still trying to collect a few checks, if you can't see the difference you need some serious help.


Yet Ricco wasn't a big deal then either...much like Cruz isn't now.


Being a UFC champion =/= you are a popular fighter.


Also, lmao at that above post. Gustaffson apparently is a huge deal outside of Sweden amirite?

The dude is arguably worse than Glover , but has never taken a fight on short notice, and he probably wouldn't even want to fight Shogun on short notice right now. "Rising star" my ass.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Roflcopter said:


> Yet Ricco wasn't a big deal then either...much like Cruz isn't now.
> 
> 
> Being a UFC champion =/= you are a popular fighter.
> ...


Now you're just grasping at straws by bringing Cruz into this.

Gustaffson is worse than Glover? You've been talking up Glover like he's the second coming of Christ, Gustaffson has won fights in the UFC against the 10-20 range of the division and is in line for one of the top ten.

Gustaffson may not be a big deal outside of Sweden yet, but that's why he should fight a Shogun or a Rashad to raise his profile and build interest in America.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Yet Ricco wasn't a big deal then either...much like Cruz isn't now.
> 
> 
> Being a UFC champion =/= you are a popular fighter.
> ...


He's on a five fight win streak in the UFC.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Actually Roflcocopter, this exact same situation happened last summer with Gustafsson in the Teixera role and Shogun in the Rich Franklin role. He also excepted a last minute switch from Mateyshanko to Matt Hamill.

Of course if your opinion is Davis, Gustafersson, Shogun, Rampage, and Griffin all suck I don't know if you have the right perspective to be in this discussion.

Even if I agree with a couple things you are saying.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Awesome, Glover hasn't lost in 7 years.

Rampage and Griffin suck...the rest are mid-level to fringe guys...Gustaffson is still young and could get better and crack the top 5 but Shogun is going nowhere but down.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

It doesn't matter if you think Shogun is on his way out, the fact is he's ranked too high for Glover while someone with a bigger win streak but also yet to face a top 5 opponent is available.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> Awesome, Glover hasn't lost in 7 years.
> 
> Rampage and Griffin suck...the rest are mid-level to fringe guys...Gustaffson is still young and could get better and crack the top 5 but Shogun is going nowhere but down.


Who's the top five in your eyes then? Evans, Jones, Henderson, and who else Machida? Moussasi? King Mo?


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Shogun doesn't deserve to fight Glover. Shogun barely has a name...don't kid yourself into thinking this dude is some megastar in the United States.
> 
> Glover has actually been winning fights, something Shogun hasn't done consistently since 2005.
> 
> ...


"Barely" having a name is better than having literally no name at all among the casual fan. The majority of the UFC fan base know Shogun for his epic first fight with Machida (many thought he won that fight, too), devastating tko of Machida, and beat down at the hands of Jon Jones. Those fights along with UFC marketing have made Shogun a name known by a lot of the UFC fan base. The same could not be said for Glover. I would bet the vast majority of UFC fans had never heard of him before UFC 146.

Like it or not the UFC is very good at making its top tier fighters seem like they are by far and away in a different league altogether. 

If Shogun loses to Glover it isn't the same as losing to an established UFC fighter. Not for Shogun's career anyways. Shogun is playing it safe and choosing his opponent. Do I think that is cool? Not really. But like you said Shogun is probably going nowhere but down at this stage of career, so on earth would he want to risk what he has built so far on a guy with one UFC fight?


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

SM33 said:


> It doesn't matter if you think Shogun is on his way out, the fact is he's ranked too high for Glover while someone with a bigger win streak but also yet to face a top 5 opponent is available.


"Fact." 

You make me laugh with your inane drivel. As if there's some arbitray, boxing-esque ranking system that determines if fighters can fight or not.

Also, last time I checked, 15 fight win streak > 5




Ape City said:


> "Barely" having a name is better than having literally no name at all among the casual fan. The majority of the UFC fan base know Shogun for his epic first fight with Machida (many thought he won that fight, too), devastating tko of Machida, and beat down at the hands of Jon Jones. Those fights along with UFC marketing have made Shogun a name known by a lot of the UFC fan base. The same could not be said for Glover. I would bet the vast majority of UFC fans had never heard of him before UFC 146.
> 
> Like it or not the UFC is very good at making its top tier fighters seem like they are by far and away in a different league altogether.
> 
> If Shogun loses to Glover it isn't the same as losing to an established UFC fighter. Not for Shogun's career anyways. Shogun is playing it safe and choosing his opponent. Do I think that is cool? Not really. But like you said Shogun is probably going nowhere but down at this stage of career, *so on earth would he want to risk what he has built so far on a guy with one UFC fight?*


Wait, hasn't this Shogun guy been masquerading as a professional fighter for the last several years? :laugh:

We might as well add sanctioning bodies and "super" weight divisions since this sport seems to be headed straight down the path that boxing has been on.

I remember back in the good old days when fighters weren't pussies and took on all comers....if Franklin-Anderson would've been coming up in 2012...Rich would've ducked him and forumites would've somehow excused his disgraceful behaviour.

Imagine that.




John8204 said:


> Who's the top five in your eyes then? Evans, Jones, Henderson, and who else Machida? Moussasi? King Mo?


I don't even rank this sorry ass division. It's essentially a mockery and a pivot division being held hostage by old, decrepit has-beens that refuse to fight anyone.

I mean...isn't Forrest fighting ****ign Tito next fight...a dude who has lost like 6 of his last 8? It's a joke. These guys play musical chairs with these shambolic "top 5" rankings and shut everyone out by default.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> "Fact."
> 
> You make me laugh with your inane drivel. As if there's some arbitray, boxing-esque ranking system that determines if fighters can fight or not.
> 
> ...


Sure they can fight, I don't really care if they do fight, but it'll completely undermine the accomplishments of Gustafsson and is a blatant gift for Glover, the motive for which we don't know.

But you think Glover is a better fighter, so that makes it ok... I'd love MMA to be the way you want it to be, but as long as there are titles, it'll never be about _a fight_, it'll be about a collection of fights. Glover does not have the collection of UFC wins to deserve a Shogun fight, and he does not have the notoriety of someone like Hector Lombard to instantly get contender fights on entering the UFC.

Personally I would not be surprised if Shogun has/is in the process of accepting the fight and we don't know about it. If so, I bet they're trying to make Evans vs Gustaf. I'd like to see Rua vs Teixeira because it's a great match up, I'd like to see Teixeira earn a title shot, but there is more to this game now than great fights, and there is nothing you can do about it. If you don't think Shogun is one of the more fearless fighters in the UFC, I can't take you seriously.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Gustaffson has accomplished shit.

Secondly, the dude has NEVER taken a fight on short notice. **** right off with your holier-than-thou bullshit.

Motive? Gift?

What the hell do you think this is, the WWE? Two men are going to fight, and one man is going to win. If Shogun isn't a total fraud of a fighter at this point, he'll beat Glover, but he probably won't.

And no it doesn't make it okay because what I want it to be that, it makes it okay because the ZUFFA brass, who knows far more about the fight business than your childish, nonsensical and elitist mind could comprehend, is trying to make the fight and Shogun is showing his cowardice by avoiding it.


I was right when I was reflecting on MMA in other topics..it's completely going down the shitter. Whether it be the quality of the fights, or now just the fraudulent fans that populate it since the sport has become "mainstream". The other half are armchair businessmen and managers, and now apparently, don't even laud the abilities of their so called favourite fighters, but rather tout their irrelevant accomplishments when it comes to potential fight prospects. What a joke.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

It's pretty easy to sit in your computer chair and talk about what a fighter should do with his career when it has no effect on you at all. These guys have their livelihoods to protect first and foremost. People seem to forget that a lot these days and just think of them as entertainers.

Shogun's obviously slowing down and coming to the end of his career. It makes no sense to take a fight with a dangerous opponent who has little name value in the states when he could be fighting Gus, Davis, Evans, or any other LHW with a decent name.

He's not the first person to turn down a fight and he wont be the last.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Gustaffson has accomplished shit.
> 
> Secondly, the dude has NEVER taken a fight on short notice. **** right off with your holier-than-thou bullshit.
> 
> ...


No, if I thought this was the WWE I'd have the same opinion as you - that a fighter with one fight in the organization should get a top 5 opponent ahead of a guy on a five fight win streak.

That is nonsensical and at the moment looks like matchmaking with an ulterior motive. Maybe Gustaf and Evans are booked and we don't know about it yet. It is a pretty hard decision to support until we know the details, and you are not putting across a good argument.

Rankings and contender status are what makes it a legit sport and Shogun is a legit top 5 LHW right now. Just because you dont think he will be after his next fight, does not mean he should automatically be fighting small name UFC new guys as if he's already fallen out of the top ten.

Shogun vs Teixeira would be a great fight, we get that you really want it to happen and really want Rua to lose, but you have nothing to suggest this is not strange matchmaking until other fights are announced. Shogun is obviously looking at his options, Hendo to Glover is a massive step down.


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

I hate when fighters turn down fights. It made me lose a lot of respect for Wanderlei when he was refusing to fight Stann. Shogun got dominated by Jones, beat Forrest, and then lost a good fight to Hendo. He is a couple fights away from a title shot, and he really isn't in the position to be picking fights at this point.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Has anyone even considered that accepting the Teixeira fight would probably mean losing the co-main slot and being moved down on the card?

Fighters turn down fights all the time and we do not know about it, the only reason we know about this is because for some reason its got Dana's knickers in a twist.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

I can see both sides. On the one hand there is the problem that fighting isn't as one dimensional as i.e. running where the athletes performance doesn't depend on his/her opponents abilities nor on the opinion of a couple of subjective judges. In that aspect, fighting has similarities to a mix of poker and competitive dancing. The better man will usually win, but there are other factors that may influence the outcome. You could easily say that the best runner wins 10/10 runs against the second best runner, because the best needs pretty precisely time A for the distance and the second best needs time B. You don't have that in fighting. You will usually say that the better fighter would win X out of Y against the other fighter, because there always could be a "lucky punch" or the judges could "screw" it up. So it's somewhat understandable that some fighters are afraid of losing their market value when fighting against more unknown fighters, in particular if they lose by "bad luck" or "bad judging".

On the other hand, if you want to consider MMA a legitimate sport it should all be about performance and competitive comparison, so market value shouldn't play a role and turning down fights shouldn't be an option. 

The big problem here is the interconnection of sport and entertainment.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

SM33 said:


> Glover does not have the collection of UFC wins to deserve a Shogun fight, and he does not have the notoriety of someone like Hector Lombard to instantly get contender fights on entering the UFC.


Although I agree with you fundamentally, In this context I don't follow the logic. Shogun was already scheduled to fight Thiago Silva. He had no complaints fighting a guy who has won only one of his last 5 fights in the UFC. I don't see how his record carries any more prestige then a dude who hasn't lost in years outside of the UFC.

I honestly believe Rua wanted Silva because he considered it an easy fight.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

PLS...carry on!!!


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

Soojooko said:


> Although I agree with you fundamentally, In this context I don't follow the logic. Shogun was already scheduled to fight Thiago Silva. He had no complaints fighting a guy who has won only one of his last 5 fights in the UFC. I don't see how his record carries any more prestige then a dude who hasn't lost in years outside of the UFC.
> 
> I honestly believe Rua wanted Silva because he considered it an easy fight.


This. He would have his way with Silva, who is really not that good. Then he would try to lobby his way to a title shot (undeservingly). Who the he'll does he want to fight? I guess Rampage or another name.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

limba said:


> PLS...carry on!!!


Dont worry buddy... we will! :angry01::sad03::angry08::angry04::angry08: :angry06:


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Honestly, I'd like Shogun to accept the fight, I think it'd be a war. None of you would even be considering him as a logical replacement if Dana hadn't said it in the same article that told us Thiago is out.

Glover is a beast, he's on a good win streak, watch his fights he's very well rounded. Shogun does not duck people though, we're talking about a guy who wants another crack at Jon Jones despite what happened in the first fight.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

The Best Around said:


> This. He would have his way with Silva, who is really not that good. Then he would try to lobby his way to a title shot (undeservingly). Who the he'll does he want to fight? I guess Rampage or another name.


Shogun wasn't trying to get a title shot.

The UFC put together Shogun/Silva in hopes of getting Shogun back on track, this was before Glover even fought in the UFC, they need coaches for TUF Brazil 2 and Machida/Shogun III would make the most sense, so they give Shogun an easy opponent and they give Machida a guy who everyone thinks is an easy opponent although Bader has the ability to do exactly what Rampage did to him.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Bader would not have survived that third round.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

Roflcopter said:


> Well maybe one can consider themselves a fan if they watch a bunch of high profile UFC PPVs for years....however that really wasn't the demographic I was speaking of.
> 
> Mainly because the former demographic fails to realize that guys like Rampage and Forrest and Shogun are barely relevant fighters anymore and will have to fight to EARN their spots as relevant contenders. Shogun can do precisely that by beating a dangerous, hungry fighter who stylistically should give him a ton of problems...
> 
> ...


You were saying something about Shogun not really being relevant since 05? So are we going down the road of 'Glover being undefeated in 7 years'? This sounds like a Hector Lombard scenario really.

Shogun:
-Middleweight GP Winner
-Former UFC 205lb Champ

Notable wins:
-Overeem x2 (before Alistair gained ridiculous mass)
-Rampage
-Machida (most people had him winning the first fight in what seemed to be a controversial decision)
-Forrest (lost debut fight)
-Liddell
-Sobral
-Arona
-Lil Nog

This resume in itself shows that he is relevant and faces the best competition. He had an extremely close decision loss to Henderson, got blasted by Jones... The first fight with Forrest he lost convincingly, then got robbed IMO against Machida in fight #1

Glover is a great fighter, don't get me wrong... but his only notable wins are Cruz, Ferreira and Sokoudjou (he beat Ferreira)...but is incredibly inconsistent.

The point i'm making is I don't mind Shogun fighting Glover because I think he'll beat him. However, I don't see it doing anything to boost rankings towards a title shot. Shoguns losses were to title holders of UFC or Strikeforce (fomer and current holders). Glover beat Kingsbury and has a 7 year unbeaten streak which is padded with a few good wins and a bunch from no names or guys that did nothing in their respective divisions.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

Ludinator said:


> Dana is trying to push up and comers through the ranking for Jones other wise the devision is stuck. Using big names for up and comers is smart and if glover was to win then he would only be 1 fight away from title shot and jones has challengers. Problem is when fighters start to think there to good for fighters like glover then the devision is in trouble.


I don't think its because he thinks he is too good for Glover. Look what happened to Werdum when he lost to a virtually unknown Junior Dos Santos. His stock went way down and the UFC sent him packing. This could easily happen to Shogun. Or he might have to take a paycut.


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