# Can Technique trump Power?



## agnorisis (Jan 19, 2011)

Hey,

I was just wondering about this issue, and maybe you guys are the experts on that.

Personally, I think maybe up to a point, but then if you are really, really strong, there's little that can be brought against you, even from an expert.

What do you think?


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

yes.

power plus technique.... no


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## agnorisis (Jan 19, 2011)

Thank you for your reply, first vid wasn't so good (mostly about grappling), second vid better, third I am still watching but don't think it will turn out any different from the first few minutes.

Maybe I should try and be specific. 
I'm talking about an actual fight - not just a staged one, with set rules.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

It depends on the extent of the power advantage or the extent of the technique advantage. Brock vs Cain is a case where superior technique trumped power and Brock vs Mir II was a case where power trumped technique. Royce proved time and time again that technique trumped power, then there's Marquart vs Maia where power obliterated technique, its a full spectrum of mediating variables.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

agnorisis said:


> Thank you for your reply, first vid wasn't so good (mostly about grappling), second vid better, third I am still watching but don't think it will turn out any different from the first few minutes.
> 
> Maybe I should try and be specific.
> I'm talking about an actual fight - not just a staged one, with set rules.


Ummm... what? Why isn't grappling a valid example of technique over power? and what are you meaning by "actual fight"? Do you mean a street fight rather than an MMA fight?


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

If there is a big gap in technique then yes, very possible but size is a massive advantage.
A guys like Phil Davis who have very sound technique to go with their strength and size are very hard to beat. 

BTW Gunnar Nelson 170lbs subbing Jeff Monson 225lbs + is another good one to watch if you can find it.

In a "street" fight then size has a much bigger advantage. Because chances are a big guy will get a smaller guy down at some point and then punch them repeatedly in the back of the head... or the balls.


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## agnorisis (Jan 19, 2011)

HexRei said:


> Ummm... what? Why isn't grappling a valid example of technique over power?


I don't know, it could very well be.



> ...and what are you meaning by "actual fight"? Do you mean a street fight rather than an MMA fight?


Yes.


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## agnorisis (Jan 19, 2011)

VolcomX311 said:


> It depends on the extent of the power advantage or the extent of the technique advantage. Brock vs Cain is a case where superior technique trumped power and Brock vs Mir II was a case where power trumped technique. Royce proved time and time again that technique trumped power, then there's Marquart vs Maia where power obliterated technique, its a full spectrum of mediating variables.


Very interesting.

May I ask you to help me out a little bit, by giving references or links to videos?


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

agnorisis said:


> I don't know, it could very well be.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.


You might have some problems finding links to videos of street fights with serious technique, at least real ones. There is the old story about Lee Murray vs Tito Ortiz, given Tito's big size advantage I'd bet he was quite a bit stronger than Lee when they faced off in that alley and by all accounts but Tito's, Lee whooped him with superior striking technique.


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## Icemanforever (Oct 5, 2010)

It's obviously dependant on how much technique vs how much power.

100% Power with no technique vs. 100% technique with lil power then no doubt technique. Very vague question....power can make up for some lack of technique.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

BJJ is based completely on the idea that a much smaller man can overpower or beat a much larger man using intelligence and proper technique. So pretty much 99 time out of 100 technique trumps power.


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## agnorisis (Jan 19, 2011)

HexRei said:


> You might have some problems finding links to videos of street fights with serious technique, at least real ones.


Yes, but thank you all.

Very good responses, and I shall see what I can find out from the references.

EDIT: Also, in appreciation of your responses: "BBOY CASPER TRAILER", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKK2hotBkHI


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

It depends on different things and the circumstances but yes, technique usually trumps power. There are times when power beats technique though, as well.


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## agnorisis (Jan 19, 2011)

Rauno said:


> It depends...


Right, but are there any proofs, though?

EDIT: "Let's start at the very beginning - a very good place to start".


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Simply put....YES....but the speed is what kills, put speed with technique and I'll take that over power all day...


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

coldcall420 said:


> Simply put....YES....but the speed is what kills, put speed with technique and I'll take that over power all day...


Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee, you can't hit what you can't see right?


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Exactly, plus the flurries that good speed produce can just shut a guy down before he gets off......:thumbsup:


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...Yes, of course it can. Easy question. Cain vs. Brock top example. Fedor has been doing it for many years...


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

agnorisis said:


> Right, but are there any proofs, though?
> 
> EDIT: "Let's start at the very beginning - a very good place to start".


I'm a little confused as to what you're asking or looking for.

The 1st video I posted was a 170lb ufc reject having his way with an NFL player who out weighed him by 70 lb.

the 3rd video was a ufc reject defeating the STRONGEST man in the world.

but you ask for "proofs" and talk about "real fights". I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Here's rickson on the beach with a much larger professional fighter.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

oldfan said:


> I'm a little confused as to what you're asking or looking for.
> 
> The 1st video I posted was a 170lb ufc reject having his way with an NFL player who out weighed him by 70 lb.
> 
> ...


That was pretty cool.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I have two good examples. The first is obviously Royce Gracie who won three of the first four UFC tournaments on almost his technique alone. My second examples is Randy Couture while he was fighting in the heavyweight division, the best example being against Tim Sylvia!


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## Goopus (Feb 2, 2010)

Another good example is Hazelett vs. Dal--- Oh wait nevermind.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

How is Hazelett vs. Dal a power versus size issue? I was about to say another example of Randy Couture is his fight with Gabriel Gonzaga. Let's not also forget his first UFC tournament!


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## agnorisis (Jan 19, 2011)

Right, well anyway.

I started this topic because, well I wanted to see if it was relevant to what I am doing - which is fighting on the mental plane.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

It is definately relavent on the mental plane. If you have a guy who is more skilled versus a guy who is a power puncher but they are the same weight, the power guy is only going to win with a lucky shot. The better technique guy will win normally!


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

kantowrestler said:


> I have two good examples. The first is obviously Royce Gracie who won three of the first four UFC tournaments on almost his technique alone. My second examples is Randy Couture while he was fighting in the heavyweight division, the best example being against Tim Sylvia!


I like the examples except plug Brock in there rather than Sylvia, I know Brock won, but Randy proved good technique could work against Brock......Sylvia is such a bitch and underestimated randy I cant stand the mention of his goofy name....:thumbsup:


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, Randy could've won that match if he hadn't gotten caught. He also fared very well against Big Nog. I wonder how you could categorize his fight with Toney though!


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## agnorisis (Jan 19, 2011)

"It is definately relavent on the mental plane. If you have a guy who is more skilled versus a guy who is a power puncher but they are the same weight, the power guy is only going to win with a lucky shot."

Right, I'm just trying to understand things. I haven't fought myself, in like 15 years.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Seriousl or is that just plain sarcasm? Anyways, I think most MMA fighters have proved all of this. It should be clear!


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

agnorisis said:


> Hey,
> 
> I was just wondering about this issue, and maybe you guys are the experts on that.
> 
> ...


basicallly despite what both sides will tell you the truth is in the middile, it can, but it can also go the other way


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

VolcomX311 said:


> It depends on the extent of the power advantage or the extent of the technique advantage. Brock vs Cain is a case where superior technique trumped power and Brock vs Mir II was a case where power trumped technique. Royce proved time and time again that technique trumped power, then there's Marquart vs Maia where power obliterated technique, its a full spectrum of mediating variables.


while I agree with your overall pint the example of Marquardt vs Maia is bogus, the reason Nate could get his power through on Maia was because he has superior technique
tho I do agree with your overall point just not that particular example


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> BJJ is based completely on the idea that a much smaller man can overpower or beat a much larger man using intelligence and proper technique. So pretty much 99 time out of 100 technique trumps power.


hollywood ideas like this spouted from fans make real mma types laugh
so thanks for the laugh


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

coldcall420 said:


> Simply put....YES....but the speed is what kills, put speed with technique and I'll take that over power all day...


no you wont because speed + technique are 2/3 of the power equation so you really can't have 2 of them and not have a solid level of power


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> I have two good examples. The first is obviously Royce Gracie who won three of the first four UFC tournaments on almost his technique alone. My second examples is Randy Couture while he was fighting in the heavyweight division, the best example being against Tim Sylvia!


to be fair tho Randy at HW is as often proof of superior size and power defeating superior technique as it is the other...
his fights against Josh Barnett and Rico Rodriguez come to mind, he was well past Josh on technique/skill at the time but as soon as he slipped up just a bit and Josh got on Top the fight was basically over. Similar deal with Rico as I recall tho it as been much longer since I last saw that fight.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well remember though that Barnett was on roids. So was it because of that that he won, we will never know. By the way, you didn't just double post, you quintuplposted!


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Well remember though that Barnett was on roids. So was it because of that that he won, we will never know. By the way, you didn't just double post, you quintuplposted!


it's like combination punching but a lot easier...

hey may have won via steroids but that dosn't matter
the question isn't skill vs natural power
it's skill vs power period


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well in the case of Ricco its a case of about even skill and size was the deciding factor. At the time Randy was not as experience as he was now. That is one of the reasons why he decided to drop a weightclass!


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

BearInTheClinch said:


> hollywood ideas like this spouted from fans make real mma types laugh
> so thanks for the laugh


Really......I'm not a "real MMA type" hahaha I guess by that statement you can tell everything about me and what I am or am not. Even though that is pretty much a quote from the Gracies....real mma type you must be.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

The real MMA type? The Gracie family? I'm not completely sure what you're talking about!


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

agnorisis said:


> "It is definately relavent on the mental plane. If you have a guy who is more skilled versus a guy who is a power puncher but they are the same weight, the power guy is only going to win with a lucky shot."
> 
> Right, I'm just trying to understand things. I haven't fought myself, in like 15 years.


 Not really with the Toney fight. Perfect example of a guy that was totally one dimensional and had no cardio......



kantowrestler said:


> Seriousl or is that just plain sarcasm? Anyways, I think most MMA fighters have proved all of this. It should be clear!


 I would call it a freak show, but Toney wanted it and got what he asked for, what was so funny was how Randy was looking so forward to getting to whip that ass!!! So many more options for Randy in the fight obviously. 



BearInTheClinch said:


> no you wont because speed + technique are 2/3 of the power equation so you really can't have 2 of them and not have a solid level of power


Sure you can, take a look at a guy like Machida. The guy has speed and technique but def isn't the most powerful. Another example would be like a Diego Sanchez....plus TBH.....speed and technique dont create power! However each can be improved on an individual level you can already have significant speed, lack power and then workout to gain the power you lack. Or you can apply that to any of the three. :thumb02:


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Well in the case of Ricco its a case of about even skill and size was the deciding factor. At the time Randy was not as experience as he was now. That is one of the reasons why he decided to drop a weightclass!


right, becasue even as his skill/techinique was improving he knew he'd be better in lower weight classes fighting lesser power...


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> Really......I'm not a "real MMA type" hahaha I guess by that statement you can tell everything about me and what I am or am not. Even though that is pretty much a quote from the Gracies....real mma type you must be.


son the 90's was over a decade ago...
they were using technique vs no techniuqe you don't find that anymore, and people with more power can counter your technique with a lower level of technique
maybe you'd like to point out a Gracie doing really well in MMA lately since you think quoting them means you've made a point?


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

coldcall420 said:


> Not really with the Toney fight. Perfect example of a guy that was totally one dimensional and had no cardio......
> 
> I would call it a freak show, but Toney wanted it and got what he asked for, what was so funny was how Randy was looking so forward to getting to whip that ass!!! So many more options for Randy in the fight obviously.
> 
> ...


dude, look it up speed and mass are the two factors contributing to power...
it isn't up for debate lol
also Machida has good power (check his KO's) 
what is your definition of power maybe we are arguing seperate points but using the same terms


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

BearInTheClinch said:


> dude, look it up speed and mass are the two factors contributing to power...
> it isn't up for debate lol
> also Machida has good power (check his KO's)
> what is your definition of power maybe we are arguing seperate points but using the same terms


 
I'm not going by some book or formula....and were talking technique and speed, not Mass and speed. Honestly, I'm probably the biggest Machida fan on the board, me and Bobby have had it out with people over Machida and especially the 1st Shogun fight forever.... 

My point is he is my favorite fighter and he doesn't have the same kind of power that say Rampage has....PERIOD. 

No offense, but I dont need to go back and watch any Machida fights I can dictate every one of them to you.

My point is whatever formula you are using is simply that, a formula.....Machida undeniably had great technique and speed, and yes has k/o's on Evans, and Thiago but they were not clean one shot k/o's and your out k/o's especially in the case of Rashad.

Take a look at Rampage the guy has very limited speed and really no solid technique and he is mad powerful, so your formula doesn't work for me, or in general for that matter.

You can be a strong ass dude and have no speed or technique, just like a Machida has TONZ of technique and speed but again, doesn't have the power of other 205er's...:thumbsup:

A mathematical formula doesn't always apply....not saying I dont respect your opinion, just that it does not always apply....


EDIT: Whats with all the double and tiple posts dude? Get your thoughts out all in one post, not three in a row brother!!!


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, Machida used to be the definition of technique versus power. He certainly out did every opponent fight until his first loss. To a degree if he rebounds he can still hold that definition!


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

coldcall420 said:


> I'm not going by some book or formula....and were talking technique and speed, not Mass and speed. Honestly, I'm probably the biggest Machida fan on the board, me and Bobby have had it out with people over Machida and especially the 1st Shogun fight forever....
> 
> My point is he is my favorite fighter and he doesn't have the same kind of power that say Rampage has....PERIOD.
> 
> ...


well the formula does work you just don't understand it
there is nothing magical about a fighters punch that permits it to deny the laws of physics...
the technique comes in on the mass level of the speed/mass formula (which does apply reguardless of your claims to the contrary) To elaborate for you, speed is speed either way, it's how quick the fist is moving. the reason technique comes in on the mass portion is that the proper technique keeps things in line and keeps the equal and opposite reaction effect from having your fist simply bounce off of the other fighter ineffectivly. Technique is how you get your body(WEIGHT) into the blow. It is in fact the reason well thrown punches are superior to arm punches. The math is ALWAYS there, just people don't understand it. 

I'll agree with Rampage having more power then Machida but when you are comparing technique vs power you can't put someone with multiple KO's on the techinque side and list him as a 'low power' individual. But now that you mention it, Rampage defeated Machida so is that evidence for Power trumping Technique in your book?


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

BearInTheClinch said:


> well the formula does work you just don't understand it
> there is nothing magical about a fighters punch that permits it to deny the laws of physics...
> the technique comes in on the mass level of the speed/mass formula (which does apply reguardless of your claims to the contrary) To elaborate for you, speed is speed either way, it's how quick the fist is moving. the reason technique comes in on the mass portion is that the proper technique keeps things in line and keeps the equal and opposite reaction effect from having your fist simply bounce off of the other fighter ineffectivly. Technique is how you get your body(WEIGHT) into the blow. It is in fact the reason well thrown punches are superior to arm punches. The math is ALWAYS there, just people don't understand it.
> 
> I'll agree with Rampage having more power then Machida but when you are comparing technique vs power you can't put someone with multiple KO's on the techinque side and list him as a 'low power' individual. But now that you mention it, Rampage defeated Machida so is that evidence for Power trumping Technique in your book?


I understand your formula, all I'm really trying to do is give u some examples of where it does not necessarily apply. All the above was a waste of your time, but I do appreciate the effort...:thumbsup:
Believe my I'm not hating on Machida, dude he is a karate fighter with a wider stance resulting in less rotation of the hips hence slightly less power. This topic has been greatly debated topic in the past. Rampage beating Machida was a bad decision in my book. I'm talking speed this whole time. Probably, yes the judges favored how hard Rampage was landing the shots he landed.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, there are definately exceptions to the technique versus power argument. Rampage was definately the power fighter of the two but he won. Had nothing to do with Machida being less technical!


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Yeah, there are definately exceptions to the technique versus power argument. Rampage was definately the power fighter of the two but he won. Had nothing to do with Machida being less technical!


I could actually kind of see an argument to be made that Machida's Defensive technique is somewhat lacking. His hands are generally not anywhere near his chin and he stands basically straight up. I don't think the standing straight up part is as big a deal as some people make it out to be but against some fighters it can be a big mistake. I'd say that while Machida has offensive technique Rampage has the defensive technique comparing the two.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah that is true. Machida has always been working on his offense and none of his defense. Rampage has had years in which he has actually been working on his technique so that he isn't just a slammer!


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

lol I love when people neg-rep me but are too cowardly to try to make thier 'point' in public
such weakness does not become a fighter to be honest
I should have stuck to my promise to myself that I would only discuss combat sports with people face to face where they are stunningly polite 
kids these days huh lol
hiding behind computers

no offence to you Kanto the post comes right after yours I don't want you to feel like I'm talking about you


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

BearInTheClinch said:


> lol I love when people neg-rep me but are too cowardly to try to make thier 'point' in public
> such weakness does not become a fighter to be honest
> I should have stuck to my promise to myself that I would only discuss combat sports with people face to face where they are stunningly polite
> kids these days huh lol
> ...


I neg repped u so back off kanto......u make claims all through this thread, I call out and quote these and u ignore and continue to yap. Back your points up or shut up. Go bac and read the thread, then come at me.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, I was kind've wondering what where that came from. Generally repping isn't about me cause I don't rep people at all. The reason of course is that I don't really know how and want to keep it that way!


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

coldcall420 said:


> I neg repped u so back off kanto......u make claims all through this thread, I call out and quote these and u ignore and continue to yap. Back your points up or shut up. Go bac and read the thread, then come at me.


I'll try but I have to wonder how you can tell me to back off Kanto when you actually read what I wrote...
perhaps you are a little slow

upon further review that would appear to be the case, I responded to your commentary and you in turn responded that you 'knew all that' and I had wasted my time
so how exactly do you claim that I didn't back my points up when you agreed with what I said? 
You do understand that telling someone you already know what they said is basically agreeing with them, otherwise you'd have made some effort to counter the point right? So how can I continue a debate when you have admited I was right? If you didn't mean to admit what I said was right I'd have to put forth your same challenge to you, if you disagree with something I said back up YOUR points. And I mean ACTUALLY defend your points don't just insist that you are right...that's childish. 
Offer some form of proof other then typing the word period in all caps...
I'm fairly sure you won't have anything to say honestly but you might suprise me.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

BearInTheClinch said:


> I'll try but I have to wonder how you can tell me to back off Kanto when you actually read what I wrote...
> perhaps you are a little slow
> 
> upon further review that would appear to be the case, I responded to your commentary and you in turn responded that you 'knew all that' and I had wasted my time
> ...


I backed up my point and asked questions that went unanswered. Yet you stick to the point you were trying to make. I can't admit your anything when you do not back up a rebuttal to your point. The back off kanto was because you were thinking he neg repped you...


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I think he might've actually been talking to me. But if not then no offense to either of you and I didn't take it taht way. Either way I think there might be some miscommunication going on!


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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

coldcall420 said:


> I backed up my point and asked questions that went unanswered. Yet you stick to the point you were trying to make. I can't admit your anything when you do not back up a rebuttal to your point.


look I'd be glad tohave a debate honestly but I read your post and I didn't see any questions so if you have actual questions or counters just put them here
otherwise I have to assume I was right when I said we wouldn't really hear anything out of you. You CLAIM you backed upyour point but I didn't see any backing up of your point nor did I see any questions to answer...

btw you can't back up a rebuttal to your point, you can only counter it...

Kanto just to be perfectly clear what I meant with my post at the top of this page was that I wasn't addressing the post towards you, but since my post was right after one of yours I thought you might take it that way so I went out of my way to say it wasn't directed at you. Despite that step it still seems to have confused some people.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

BearInTheClinch said:


> look I'd be glad tohave a debate honestly but I read your post and I didn't see any questions so if you have actual questions or counters just put them here
> otherwise I have to assume I was right when I said we wouldn't really hear anything out of you. You CLAIM you backed upyour point but I didn't see any backing up of your point nor did I see any questions to answer...
> 
> btw you can't back up a rebuttal to your point, you can only counter it...
> ...


 
To start were talking speed technique and power.Your saying you need all three to get 
power, and introducing a formula. That formula uses mass, speed to equal power....not technique, I raised this first with you and you didn't have an answer, so its like don't call kanto out when your talking about two different things , mass and technique are not the same, there for all points following are unsubstantiated.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

CC stop wasting your time man, it doesn't matter what you say, anyone who reads his posts knows he's an idiot.

I really liked acting like people negged you Bear and didn't sign. If you're gold you can see who it was, I was someone who negged you too. Chances are there are a lot more than just me and CC though. Oh I was the one that said your lack of knowledge disturbed me. Because CC is right all you keep saying is real MMA types and how people are stupid on this forum, yet you're telling people that who carry a pretty good rep here. Also, I don't know about anyone else but I know I'm no more passionate or passive when debating face to face than I am on here.

As far as this actual debate if Power with a little technique trumps technique with less power how did Randy Couture ever win at HW? Just one example.

Oh and since none of us are "real mma types" what makes you a "real mma type?"


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm sure that everyone with the last name Gracie would say Yes!!!


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Speaking of the Gracies, I'm wondering when Kyra is going to transition. She's a good fighter who I think could definately make the transition. The question is whether she'll do it!


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## Jaramawatsona (Jan 27, 2011)

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## BearInTheClinch (Sep 14, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Speaking of the Gracies, I'm wondering when Kyra is going to transition. She's a good fighter who I think could definately make the transition. The question is whether she'll do it!


has she expressed an interest in going into MMA I hadn't heard anything about it




coldcall420 said:


> To start were talking speed technique and power.Your saying you need all three to get
> power, and introducing a formula. That formula uses mass, speed to equal power....not technique, I raised this first with you and you didn't have an answer, so its like don't call kanto out when your talking about two different things , mass and technique are not the same, there for all points following are unsubstantiated.


Well, there's the problem you told me you knew everything I said already when I explained that point but I'll do it again in brief. Basically the Speed will be relativly constant when comparing an individual fighter. So the Technique of throwing a proper punch is how the fighter gets the mass involved. He will put his weight behind the blow. That is why Technique is on the Mass side of the equation. An example to highlight this is how a properly thrown punch is far more powerful then a simple arm punch. On an arm punch the mass is only coming from the arm, on a punch thrown with good Technique you get more of your bodyweight behind it. Hence, Technique is how you get the most Mass behind the blow. 
Now do you have a counter for this argument or not, and simply saying "no it isn't so" dosn't qualify as a counter. You need some type of example or something. Otherwise your just arguing not debating. 



Life B Ez said:


> CC stop wasting your time man, it doesn't matter what you say, anyone who reads his posts knows he's an idiot.
> 
> I really liked acting like people negged you Bear and didn't sign. If you're gold you can see who it was, I was someone who negged you too. Chances are there are a lot more than just me and CC though. Oh I was the one that said your lack of knowledge disturbed me. Because CC is right all you keep saying is real MMA types and how people are stupid on this forum, yet you're telling people that who carry a pretty good rep here. Also, I don't know about anyone else but I know I'm no more passionate or passive when debating face to face than I am on here.
> 
> ...


people did neg me and not sign I don't care if you believe me or not your opinion is basically unimportant to me
and I can assure you you would be more polite if we had this conversation in person
you also are not following what I am saying, that honestly dosn't suprise me but I never said power with alittle technique would always trump technique but it can happen that way. It can also happen the other way, what we are really arguing about here and I may be the only one aware of this at this point, is if you can have Speed and Technique but still no power. I say you cannot. Because Speed+ Good Technique = Power. Do you have anything to add to the debate other then hurling insults like a small child in a temper tantrum? I am betting you have nothing constructive to add but I'd be glad to be proven wrong. 
Also I consider myself a real MMA type because I train and look at MMA for what it IS not what I want it to be. You don't point out an example from the freaking 90's to make your point and act like it's the end of the discussion, that's looking at MMA through rose colored glasses. You can use points from long ago sure, but you can't point to the 90's and act like that is the end of all mma competition ignoring everything that dosn't support your side of the argument...
If Techinque was all that mattered and Power was unimportant Randy would have defeated Lesnar with ease. Did it go that way?


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

BearInTheClinch said:


> I am betting you have nothing constructive to add but I'd be glad to be proven wrong.
> *Also I consider myself a real MMA type because I train and look at MMA* for what it IS not what I want it to be. You don't point out an example from the freaking 90's to make your point and act like it's the end of the discussion, that's looking at MMA through rose colored glasses. You can use points from long ago sure, but you can't point to the 90's and act like that is the end of all mma competition ignoring everything that dosn't support your side of the argument...
> If Techinque was all that mattered and Power was unimportant Randy would have defeated Lesnar with ease. Did it go that way?


Randy has won at HW in fact won a title at HW after the 90s.......good reading. Speed + Technique = power? It might get you wins and KOs but it doesn't mean you have one punch KO power, see what CC said about Machida.

*I*



















*2*

But in all seriousness, brown belt in BJJ, working on 10th planet stuff now. Box and do muay thai, so short of me fighting professionally I would consider myself a "real mma type."


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Why do you have a train on top of the UFC insignia?


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

BearInTheClinch said:


> has she expressed an interest in going into MMA I hadn't heard anything about it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Lmao....oh no not an INTERNET tough guy....are you serious with your post???

Look speed beats power and as far as your breakdown or need to express the "face to face' crap...im down in South Florida right next door to American Top team. i have a black in TKD and a Black in Shotokan karate and i wrestled for one yr....my penis is bigger too....i also have an MBA in Finance and your "formula's are nothing to me, they also dont also add up necessarily the way you add them up to...

I must be tougher.....stop with that crap and understand that anything you say is based off desire to not lose the point you were trying to make and you have just taken it too far...let it go skippy..:thumbsup:


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Why do you have a train on top of the UFC insignia?


Ummmm...I "Train" UFC.....it's a joke....



coldcall420 said:


> Lmao....oh no not an INTERNET tough guy....are you serious with your post???
> 
> Look speed beats power and as far as your breakdown or need to express the "face to face' crap...im down in South Florida right next door to American Top team. i have a black in TKD and a Black in Shotokan karate and i wrestled for one yr....my penis is bigger too....i also have an MBA in Finance and your "formula's are nothing to me, they also dont also add up necessarily the way you add them up to...
> 
> I must be tougher.....stop with that crap and understand that anything you say is based off desire to not lose the point you were trying to make and you have just taken it too far...let it go skippy..:thumbsup:


I'm jealous of your blackness CC.....and possibly the large penis.....


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

First of all my bad on not getting the joke. Second, what's with comparing cock sizes? The technique you know has nothing to do with that!


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> First of all my bad on not getting the joke. Second, what's with comparing cock sizes? The technique you know has nothing to do with that!


Have you ever rolled with a sexually excited man...size means everything or else you can't get the proper leverage :wink03:


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I don't know. Generally I don't pay attention to those kind've things. Besides, it would just be awkward if I did pay attention!


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

kantowrestler said:


> I don't know. Generally I don't pay attention to those kind've things. Besides, it would just be awkward if I did pay attention!


What if you couldn't help pay attention???:confused02:


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

The guy would have to have a really big package for me to do that. I do admit that sometimes I notice that when I'm watching matches. However, I rarely see that when I actually am wrestling!


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> The guy would have to have a really big package for me to do that. I do admit that sometimes I notice that when I'm watching matches. However, I rarely see that when I actually am wrestling!


No you wouldn't.....you feel it my friend you feel it. The soft yet firm touch as it brushes against your thigh and he takes your back.....my friend all that stands between you and an unusual walk is less than an inch of thin material, good luck.

Not sure this thread could get more Romo btw.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Ok dude, you are starting to get into weird areas. I'm repulsed by that whole idea. Please can we move on or something!


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Ok dude, you are starting to get into weird areas. I'm repulsed by that whole idea. Please can we move on or something!


Hey you're the wrestler and you brought it up.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Lmao....oh no not an INTERNET tough guy....are you serious with your post???
> 
> Look speed beats power and as far as your breakdown or need to express the "face to face' crap...im down in South Florida right next door to American Top team. i have a black in TKD and a Black in Shotokan karate and i wrestled for one yr....my penis is bigger too....i also have an MBA in Finance and your "formula's are nothing to me, they also dont also add up necessarily the way you add them up to...
> 
> I must be tougher.....stop with that crap and understand that anything you say is based off desire to not lose the point you were trying to make and you have just taken it too far...let it go skippy..:thumbsup:


My penis is bigger to? How did I bring that up?


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> First of all my bad on not getting the joke. Second, what's with comparing cock sizes? The technique you know has nothing to do with that!


Right here sir. You mentioned it, don't ask don't tell my friend.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

kantowrestler said:


> I don't know. Generally I don't pay attention to those kind've things. Besides, it would just be awkward if I did pay attention!


Well you should pay attention or it might end up in your butt and wouldn't even notice cause you're admiring the ceiling tiling or whatnot.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Ok, I'm not that oblivious. And what is with all the homoerotic in this forum. That seems to be rather prevalent at times!


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

kantowrestler said:


> The guy would have to have a really big package for me to do that. I do admit that sometimes I notice that when I'm watching matches. However, I rarely see that when I actually am wrestling!





kantowrestler said:


> My penis is bigger to? How did I bring that up?


What the hell Kanto???? Where are you taking this thread and how the he'll did you get there??:confused02:


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Dude, you spelled hell wrong. There is no apostraphy in hell. It is spelled with a simple H-E-L-L with nothing extra!


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Go look for a Buldge to admire....LoL!!! I'm posting from an iPad sometimes things get messed up....:thumbsup:


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Bulge to admire for a woman anyways. As for the iPad, how are those things. I've wanted one for a while!


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Awesome, I go anywhere near or in the house and I'm online!!!


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

You can also go to other places with wifi to get internet right? And there are also other perks aren't there?


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Yeah I'm just tryin to figure out how to do small things like my font is normal when posting from iPad. Till I figure small things out like thatyou'll know where I'm posting from, desktop or iPad........yes I can also access the web anywhere there is WiFi.......:thumbsup:


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well looks like the font is good for now. But its ok as long as you get your point across. That is all that matters!


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

So to get back to my point a fighter can have technique and speed yet lack power, and that applies to other variations to the combo......:thumbsup:


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, that is definately true. Combinations don't necessarily have to involve power and it can really work out.


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## gosuu (Sep 23, 2007)

Yes. Technique can trump power. Yes. Power can trump technique. Yes. Speed can trump technique. Yes. Flexibility can trump technique. The point is, everything can trump everything given the right circumstances. Also, no one possess only one of these traits, we all have a little of everything.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

This has become an interesting debate. Not at all what my interpretation of the OP's question was.

As for speed and power in striking, I'm no metaphysical astroengineer and I don't know the formulas but, it seems obvious that speed and power *can* be exclusive of each other.

Examples would include George Forman and Ray Leonard.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well here is another example. Nick Diaz fought Scott Smith and beat him on his technique alone practically. Smith had the power and Diaz went in there and picked him apart with his punching and BJJ!


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