# Alves' weight gain



## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

From Mike Dolce's twitter account:



> Thiago "Pitbull" Alves weighs in at 170.5 lbs. for his main event bout vs. Martin Kampmann. #UFConFX <mod>
> 
> 3 hours later... http://yfrog.com/od4xtavj


For anyone who can't click on the pic, it's a scale that says 197.6 lbs.

Alves gained 27 pounds in three hours.

EDIT: fixed my super bad math. My accounting prof would be proud


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I really think weigh-ins should be closer to the fight. It is insane how much weight some of these guys cut.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Imagine if all fighters were as manly as Frankie Edgar.

this fight is a LHW vs MW


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Alves is like 5'9, he has no other choice but to cut that much if he wants to compete at a high level in MMA.


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

Its all water. Maybe they should weigh in the same day of the fight.

It seems Alves cut a lot of weight. Dont be surprised if he gasses tonight.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> Its all water. Maybe they should weigh in the same day of the fight.
> 
> It seems Alves cut a lot of weight. Dont be surprised if he gasses tonight.


It has been a constant complain of his fights. What is so odd is that Alves has leaned up before, you would think he would keep at it so he doesn't have to cut so much weight. In his GSP fight he cut less weight than ever because he was preparing for a 5 round fight.


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

cdtcpl said:


> It has been a constant complain of his fights. What is so odd is that Alves has leaned up before, you would think he would keep at it so he doesn't have to cut so much weight. In his GSP fight he cut less weight than ever because he was preparing for a 5 round fight.


You would think. He is very muscular and those muscles are heavy which means he has to drain more water out of his body. The problem is a move to MW means you are now one of the smaller fighters, but staying at WW means you have to almost kill yourself to make weight and you compromise your conditioning in the process.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I completely understand why he doesn't want to move up, he is one of the smaller WW as it stands. He needs to do something though, his body isn't going to allow this forever. As much as he cuts he could start having serious side effects.


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> Its all water. Maybe they should weigh in the same day of the fight.
> 
> It seems Alves cut a lot of weight. Dont be surprised if he gasses tonight.


Even still, a gallon of water only weighs a little over eight pounds. So he was dehydrated by over three gallons of water? That's a hell of a dehydration.

If they weigh in too close to the fight, they could be fighting dehydrated, which could be pretty dangerous. The fluid that cushions your brain from impacts is almost all water, so any large dehydration is bad when getting hit in the head.

It would be a lot more complicated, but the commissions could use random tests to find out your real weight and body fat percentage, and then use that to determine what weight class they can be in.


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

SmackyBear said:


> Even still, a gallon of water only weighs a little over eight pounds. So he was dehydrated by over three gallons of water? That's a hell of a dehydration.
> 
> If they weigh in too close to the fight, they could be fighting dehydrated, which could be pretty dangerous. The fluid that cushions your brain from impacts is almost all water, so any large dehydration is bad when getting hit in the head.
> 
> It would be a lot more complicated, but the commissions could use random tests to find out your real weight and body fat percentage, and then use that to determine what weight class they can be in.


Wrestlers weigh in on the same day they wrestle. What it would do is make the fighters think twice about cutting lots of weight to fight in a weight class that they may be the bigger stronger fighter.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> Wrestlers weigh in on the same day they wrestle. What it would do is make the fighters think twice about cutting lots of weight to fight in a weight class that they may be the bigger stronger fighter.


This, and to add to that, also:

For big tournaments (Nationals, state champs, etc you need to weigh in the next day if you are still going for the podium).


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> Wrestlers weigh in on the same day they wrestle. What it would do is make the fighters think twice about cutting lots of weight to fight in a weight class that they may be the bigger stronger fighter.


In college (and in multiple states, high school) there is a system for determining what weight you can wrestle at. It was instituted because of deaths related to unregulated weight cutting. There's a weight assessment at the beginning of the year that determines the lowest weight you can safely make.

Also folkstyle wrestling has much less head impact than MMA. Freestyle and especially GR could have massive blows to the head on throws, though.

Since boxing went to day before weigh ins, the death rate has declined significantly.


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

SmackyBear said:


> In college (and in multiple states, high school) there is a system for determining what weight you can wrestle at. It was instituted because of deaths related to unregulated weight cutting. There's a weight assessment at the beginning of the year that determines the lowest weight you can safely make.
> 
> Also folkstyle wrestling has much less head impact than MMA. Freestyle and especially GR could have massive blows to the head on throws, though.
> 
> Since boxing went to day before weigh ins, the death rate has declined significantly.


Not the state I grew up in when I wrestled.

Yes, but sameday weight cutting would not be an issue if the fighters were not cutting the enormous amounts of weight they currently are cutting. If Alves walks aroung at 197 lbs then Alves would only have to cut 12 pounds to make 185 lbs.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

A limit on how much you can gain would be good. WBC in boxing is bringing in a rule that limits a fighter to a maximum of 10% increase in weight which mean say a 168lb boxer can only go up to 184.8 for fight night.

This would be a great thing to bring into mma.


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

Joabbuac said:


> A limit on how much you can gain would be good. WBC in boxing is bringing in a rule that limits a fighter to a maximum of 10% increase in weight which mean say a 168lb boxer can only go up to 184.8 for fight night.
> 
> This would be a great thing to bring into mma.


It would certainly be a game changer.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> Not the state I grew up in when I wrestled.
> 
> Yes, but sameday weight cutting would not be an issue if the fighters were not cutting the enormous amounts of weight they currently are cutting. If Alves walks aroung at 197 lbs then Alves would only have to cut 12 pounds to make 185 lbs.


Alves' biggest weakness is big, strong wrestlers, he'd never be an elite fighter at 185 with guys like Sonnen, Munoz, Weidman, Okami, Boestch who all cut over 200 lbs to fight at 185.

Granted Welterweight is littered with them too but could you imagine Silva/Alves? Anderson would swarf him, atleast at 170 the guys are around his size height wise.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Why do people make such a big deal about weight? if it was that easy to win a fight when you're larger than your opponent..

Anthony Johnson would be the WW champ and wouldn't be cut from the UFC.

Brock Lesnar would NEVER LOSE 

Frankie Edgar would never defend his belt

and I can go on and on

There are just as many disadvantages to weighting in more, being slower than your opponent, gassing in the second round...


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> It would certainly be a game changer.


I dunno...most guys would be doing what they normally do, while freaks like Alvez coming at at 197lbs wouldnt be able to get away with it.


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

Spec0688 said:


> Why do people make such a big deal about weight? if it was that easy to win a fight when you're larger than your opponent..
> 
> Anthony Johnson would be the WW champ and wouldn't be cut from the UFC.
> 
> ...


I agree with you. One of Edgars biggest advantages is not having to cut weight while Alves, who cuts lots of weight has had cardio issues.

Look at Cain, he does not cut weight and he has unbeleivable cardio.


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Alves' biggest weakness is big, strong wrestlers, he'd never be an elite fighter at 185 with guys like Sonnen, Munoz, Weidman, Okami, Boestch who all cut over 200 lbs to fight at 185.
> 
> Granted Welterweight is littered with them too but could you imagine Silva/Alves? Anderson would swarf him, atleast at 170 the guys are around his size height wise.


Those big strong wrestlers would probobly fight at the next weight class up.


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> Not the state I grew up in when I wrestled.
> 
> Yes, but sameday weight cutting would not be an issue if the fighters were not cutting the enormous amounts of weight they currently are cutting. If Alves walks aroung at 197 lbs then Alves would only have to cut 12 pounds to make 185 lbs.


High schools have been slower to change than the NCAA. The NCAA completely revamped weight cutting in the late 90's after three wrestlers died of dehydration in one year.

But some states, like Iowa, have more stringent rules. I think they call their test a body composition assessment. Boys can only wrestle at the weight they would have if they were properly hydrated at 7% body fat.


I agree with you that it'd be better if fighters didn't cut large amounts of weight. But that's obviously not the case. And until it is, I think the current system is better than same day weigh ins. Many fighters will still cut massive weight for a same day weigh in, then they'll fight with a severe increased likelihood of brain damage. 

A better system than either of them would be regulation to determine what their hydrated weight would be at a certain low body fat percentage and limiting them to only fighting in that weight class or above.


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

SmackyBear said:


> High schools have been slower to change than the NCAA. The NCAA completely revamped weight cutting in the late 90's after three wrestlers died of dehydration in one year.
> 
> But some states, like Iowa, have more stringent rules. I think they call their test a body composition assessment. Boys can only wrestle at the weight they would have if they were properly hydrated at 7% body fat.
> 
> ...


Well. The system you describe would be more foolproof. It would insure fighters are at their freshest considering they are not cutting the massive amount of weight even if weigh ins are on the same day. 

It seems to be getting worse these days when you have career MWs in Marquardt and Akiyama cutting to WW.


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> Well. The system you describe would be more foolproof. It would insure fighters are at their freshest considering they are not cutting the massive amount of weight even if weigh ins are on the same day.
> 
> It seems to be getting worse these days when you have career MWs in Marquardt and Akiyama cutting to WW.


I completely agree that it's getting out of hand. I couldn't believe Marquardt went down to 170 without any noticeable loss of muscle mass.

I don't blame the fighters. I understand they're ultra-competitive people who look to gain an edge, and their careers depend on wins and losses. But the commissions need to look out for them and take the choice out of the athletes' hands.


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

SmackyBear said:


> I completely agree that it's getting out of hand. I couldn't believe Marquardt went down to 170 without any noticeable loss of muscle mass.
> 
> I don't blame the fighters. I understand they're ultra-competitive people who look to gain an edge, and their careers depend on wins and losses. But the commissions need to look out for them and take the choice out of the athletes' hands.


Not to mention that their enormous weight cutting compromises their cardio to the point that they gas 1.5 rounds into the fight. Sometimes sooner.

There is no worse feeling than seeing a fighter you like start a fight strong and then gas and lose.


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## Ryan1522 (Oct 31, 2006)

A friend and I were talking about weight cutting a couple of days ago. We both agreed that weigh-ins should be an hour before the fight to discourage cutting weight. 

This would change the landscape of the game, but imo it makes the game a lot safer.

Firstly, you wouldn't have such disparaging differences in weight between fighters when they are competing against one another (thus making the fight more fair and safer in terms of the men having similar power)

Secondly, it would likely stop weight cutting, which is an unormal process that is extremely hard on the body. The body resists change for a reason and altering your physique over long periods of time in strenuous enough never mind over a few hours. I think weight cutting is extremely dangerous and As Smacky (I believe) already mentioned there have been deaths of wrestlers in the past due to the process.

The chance that someone gets severely hurt or dies is probably not high, however I do not think cutting weight is worth a life or even a chance that someone looses their life.

Simply put, have the fighters weigh-in an hour before the fight so fighters are fighting at a natural weight. 

If they can no longer be competitive at their current weight class, then they will have to diet down or beef up to a weight they can compete at effectively.

If a fighter can't make weight an hour before the fight, then same rules apply. A portion of the purse will be forfeited and the fighter that makes weight can decline the fight.

That's my take on fixing what I see as a dangerous problem in mma.


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

He's too muscular which is why he's got such a huge frame.


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## Ryan1522 (Oct 31, 2006)

SmackyBear said:


> High schools have been slower to change than the NCAA. The NCAA completely revamped weight cutting in the late 90's after three wrestlers died of dehydration in one year.
> 
> But some states, like Iowa, have more stringent rules. I think they call their test a body composition assessment. Boys can only wrestle at the weight they would have if they were properly hydrated at 7% body fat.
> 
> ...


I think that would be a good system, but having them weigh in right before they go into the cage or an hour before would severely discourage weight cuts. I think the max you would see would be ten pounds. 

In fact, if you had them weigh-in just before they entered the cage and they had to do the whole walkout and everything and the fight would be cancelled if they didn't make weight, then we likely wouldn't see a fighter miss weight again and they likely would be cutting no weight at all. 

The system your proposing is definitively more of a scientific approach, but it has problem associated with it. Ex) There are large differences in skeletal density which results in some people having heavier bones. 

Also if the body fat percentage is a low standard that every fighter is compared to, then some fighters will be at an advantage if they have a lower body fat percentage than the standard and fighters with a higher body fat percentages will be at a disadvantage. 

In a way it's like genetic profiling for a champion. Fighters with a very low body fat percentage are going to have a unfair advantage in my opinion. 

Additionally, this approach will really result in a cookie cutter approach to each weight class. Typically there is a certain range for height and weight for a fighter in each division, but this approach would get rid of all the outliers in each division.

If I'm interpreting this wrong, let me know Smacky.


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## elitemmaclothin (Feb 15, 2012)

Its nothing but water weight. If they weigh in's were closer to the fight, fighter would be so tired after the first round there wouldnt be anything to watch.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Ryan1522 said:


> This would change the landscape of the game, but imo it makes the game a lot safer.



I dont think it would, back in the older days of boxing when they had same day weigh ins fighters would fight very dehydrated - you mess up the weight and suddenly you are boiling down the fighting weight and not having no where near enough time to get back up. People's careers are at risk in the UFC if they pull out...while back then people were fighting out of desperation a lot more, since the money was only good enough to live on. 

The change in combat sport to a day before weigh in was to make the whole thing safer, fighting when drained is much worse, and very risky, while a botched weight cut these days normally just = a quickly gassed fighter - thing is, people abused the system to come in as big as they can. A max weight on fight day 10% above the contracted weight would do something to help this situation.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

I don't care if Thiago weighs close to 200 lbs.

He'll still look noticeably smaller than Kampmann in the cage.

It doesn't matter what the system is, fighters will always push the limits trying to get an advantage.

If weigh ins are the same day as fights, you'll still have tons of people trying to beat the system & it will be much more dangerous, but nothing will change. 

There will still be tons of fighters trying to find a scientifically viable means of cutting tons of weight, and they'll still be trying to gain an advantage over other fighters.

At least the way things are now, its relatively safe. People aren't dying or having severe cases of brain damage inflicted on them due to the dehydration process.

Comparing a college wrestling match which might last 7 minutes to a MMA fight with subs and blunt trauma blows to the body lasting 15-25 minutes and saying they're the same thing is ridiculous.

What really makes me happy about this is none of the people who support something so ridiculous are in a position to make it happen... :thumbsup:


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## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

I agree that something needs to be done about the weight cutting. As some have suggested, I think a weigh-in the day before & an hour before the fight would be a solution. A fighter would be required to weigh within something around 10lbs or 5-10% of the weight they weighed in at the day before. Fines would apply to making weight at both weigh-ins. I think they should increase the purse fines as well. Sure, we may get more fights where fighters gas, at first. But after a period of time, fighters will adjust and start fighting in their more natural wight class.


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## Ryan1522 (Oct 31, 2006)

Joabbuac said:


> I dont think it would, back in the older days of boxing when they had same day weigh ins fighters would fight very dehydrated - you mess up the weight and suddenly you are boiling down the fighting weight and not having no where near enough time to get back up. People's careers are at risk in the UFC if they pull out...while back then people were fighting out of desperation a lot more, since the money was only good enough to live on.
> 
> The change in combat sport to a day before weigh in was to make the whole thing safer, fighting when drained is much worse, and very risky, while a botched weight cut these days normally just = a quickly gassed fighter - thing is, people abused the system to come in as big as they can. A max weight on fight day 10% above the contracted weight would do something to help this situation.


I like you percentage solution for the contract. I would change it to 5 percent though. 10 percent of 170 is 17 lbs which is a lot in my books. Twenty-Seven god damn pounds is ridiculous! Five percent= 8.5 lbs which is better in my books. I wouldn't be opposed to a lower percentage to be honest.

Bottom line is something drastic needs to be done to stop people from taking advantage of the system and ensure fighter safety.


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## BamaNasty (Feb 25, 2012)

Ryan1522 said:


> I like you percentage solution for the contract. I would change it to 5 percent though. 10 percent of 170 is 17 lbs which is a lot in my books. Twenty-Seven god damn pounds is ridiculous! Five percent= 8.5 lbs which is better in my books. I wouldn't be opposed to a lower percentage to be honest.
> 
> *Bottom line is something drastic needs to be done to stop people from taking advantage of the system and ensure fighter safety*.


agreed 110% actually, whenever I am watching fights I always ask myself "I wonder how much these guys weigh right now" and after seeing this I get a good idea. Someone like GSP at 170 for instance, no way in hell is he fighting at 170 because he looks about my size and im 5'11 195 pounds! Its ridiculous how much weight these guys cut...But this is an issue that quite honestly I dont ever feel will be changed..


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

I don't know why people are making such a big fuss over this.

Ben Henderson, Rampage(obviously), Yushin Okami, Tim Boestch, and Jake Shields all cut a lot of weight to make their respective weight classes and they just fought last week. Ben Henderson had a massive size advantage on Frankie Edgar and no one was rushing to eliminate weight cutting then.


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## BamaNasty (Feb 25, 2012)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> I don't know why people are making such a big fuss over this.
> 
> Ben Henderson, Rampage(obviously), Yushin Okami, Tim Boestch, and Jake Shields all cut a lot of weight to make their respective weight classes and they just fought last week. Ben Henderson had a massive size advantage on Frankie Edgar and no one was rushing to eliminate weight cutting then.


I have no proof of this because it is my own opinion formed in my own mind but I have been wishing for weight cutting to get banned for about 4 or 5 years...no Im not saying that if you have to cut 10 or fewer pounds..that never bugged me. But if you honestly think about it they all weigh in at LW, MW, etc. and end up fighting 1 or sometimes even 2 classes heavier..Its crazy..

I have a lot of respect for the fighters who dont cut or gain, just train. That says a lot. I.E. Roy Nelson...seriously.


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## Ryan1522 (Oct 31, 2006)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> I don't know why people are making such a big fuss over this.
> 
> Ben Henderson, Rampage(obviously), Yushin Okami, Tim Boestch, and Jake Shields all cut a lot of weight to make their respective weight classes and they just fought last week. Ben Henderson had a massive size advantage on Frankie Edgar and no one was rushing to eliminate weight cutting then.


I've always seen it as a problem. People are jumping on this because there is actually evidence of a ridiculous amount of weight cut instead of speculation.

I also hate Dana telling Edgar to go down, because he is the one fighter I know of that clearly cuts minimal weight if any and I respect that he can hang and beat a lot of the monsters that are cutting all that weight. 

I understand that he's at a huge disadvantage in not cutting weight, but if a system was put into place (as has already been discussed in this thread) to ensure fighters are cutting minimal weight, then there would be no reason for him to have to change weight classes.

Essentially everyone would be bumped up a weight category, some would be bumped down and the terrible side effects of weight cutting(slowed reactions and gasing) would no longer exist in fights (assuming you come in shape to the fight to begin with).

This would cause a problem for 205ers moving up to HW so a new weight class for 206-235 should be created in my opinion.

Oh to be UFC President for a day.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

weigh them as they are getting into the cage with an extremely accurate scale. Weigh their shorts prefight.

If they are >.5 pounds over they can not win a title. 

%purse lost = ((amount of weight over limit-weight of shorts)/(weight limit))*4)*100% = problem solved

if your weight limit is 170 and you come in at 175.5 and your shorts are half a pound that means you are 4.5 over

% lost = ((4.5)/170)4)100% means you lose 24% of the purse. No more weight cutting, no more gassing, no more Bendo vs. Frankie fights. Why this isn't done is beyond me, it's logical and there really is no argument against it asides from fighters not wanting to be disciplined. We'd get to see fighters fighting at their actual potential instead of bloated monsters stumbling around in the second round. This will become even more feasible if mma really takes off and the UFC is able to implement more weight classes.


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## BamaNasty (Feb 25, 2012)

Ryan1522 said:


> I've always seen it as a problem. People are jumping on this because there is actually evidence of a ridiculous amount of weight cut instead of speculation.
> 
> I also hate Dana telling Edgar to go down, because he is the one fighter I know of that clearly cuts minimal weight if any and I respect that he can hang and beat a lot of the monsters that are cutting all that weight.
> 
> ...


Im almost certain that 90 percent of the current LHW division would be in that class...and the rest would be HW.


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## tight (Aug 26, 2007)

hi all..I'm new here been reading for a while but thought I'd chime in for a change

I think a difference of 10 pounds between fighters can be significant but at the same time, it's hard to get everyone in a division to be any closer. 

They are all different heights and have different reach as well, it seems just as unfair to have Jon Jones fight small LHWs due to length as it is to have a 10 pound weight advantage.

For health/safety and maybe even better fights (more stamina with less weight cutting), however, I'm all for a different system. Maybe weight the fighters randomly several times over their training camp and make sure they are on average under a certain number? 

That way there is time to reschedule a new fight if necessary, which I think is the problem with weighing them right before they enter the cage.


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

tight said:


> hi all..I'm new here been reading for a while but thought I'd chime in for a change
> 
> I think a difference of 10 pounds between fighters can be significant but at the same time, it's hard to get everyone in a division to be any closer.
> 
> ...


Join date of 2007. Why so long until you posted. You must have been busy.

Good first post.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> I don't know why people are making such a big fuss over this.
> 
> Ben Henderson, Rampage(obviously), Yushin Okami, Tim Boestch, and Jake Shields all cut a lot of weight to make their respective weight classes and they just fought last week. Ben Henderson had a massive size advantage on Frankie Edgar and no one was rushing to eliminate weight cutting then.


You've been here long enough to see this topic brought up more than just this time. Every 6 months or so (or whenever Alves fights) another thread is started or gets derailed into this convo.


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## tight (Aug 26, 2007)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> Join date of 2007. Why so long until you posted. You must have been busy.
> 
> Good first post.


getting involved in a forum can be time consuming, so I've refrained haha..but I'm trying to get back into martial arts so hopefully being involved will motivate me!


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

30lbs in 3hrs..WTF....


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## tripster (Jun 5, 2006)

cdtcpl said:


> I completely understand why he doesn't want to move up, he is one of the smaller WW as it stands. He needs to do something though, his body isn't going to allow this forever. As much as he cuts he could start having serious side effects.


Absolutely right. It is not healthy to cut and gain that much wieght in such an incredibly short time. Very bad for his heart. Going to need to lay off the PED's.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Let's put this in perspective. Chael Sonnen has said that when he stepped into the cage against Nate Marquardt he weighed about 206lb. That is eight and a half pounds more than what Alves will weigh when he steps in the cage. Here's where the perspective comes in, Chael Sonnen is a MIDDLEWEIGHT, he needed to weigh 185 the night before, Alves is a WELTERWEIGHT, he needed to weigh 170! Alves needed to drop 15 more pounds than Chael and he weighs eight pounds less, that is insane. There is no way this can keep going on, I thought the whole point of the Dolce diet was for Thiago to drop some weigh so he didn't cut as much.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

Doesn't GSP cut down from around 195?


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## tripster (Jun 5, 2006)

Hiro said:


> Doesn't GSP cut down from around 195?


No, more like 185.


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## Glothin (Jun 8, 2010)

Seems like they should prevent fighters from hitting each other really hard in the head and ban submissions that can damage joints or cut off circulation to the brain. That's more dangerous than cutting weight.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Glothin said:


> Seems like they should prevent fighters from hitting each other really hard in the head and ban submissions that can damage joints or cut off circulation to the brain. That's more dangerous than cutting weight.


The lack of knowledge in this post is disappointing.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

How the **** does he gain 30lbs in 3 hours? That has to be an exaggeration of some kind. Can someone who isn't as uninformed as myself please tell me how/if that is possible? I don;t think 30lbs in 3 hours is physically possible.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

As long as they make weight, who really cares? If a fighter wants to torture their body within the rules that's entirely up to them.

Weight cutting was the single worst thing about wrestling for me when I was growing up. It's a slow torture that you feel every second of every day. Then when you do get to eat and drink a little it's not satisfying because you just want more. If you eat / drink too much after a weight in your body feels like it's just going to shut down.

The difference between wrestling and MMA is that in wrestling we would compete every week. Sometimes multiple times in a week.

**** that. I cut 5 pounds max for jitz now. Anything else just isn't worth it. I would rather run a marathon than make some of the cuts that I used to every week.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Just curious PGI, how much weight were you cutting and how much were you gaining back and in how little time? I've never had to do anything like that thankfully I only played Football and Rugby, it sounds like a complete hell. Do all HS/Collegiate wrestlers cut weight? I do wonder just how much of an advantage it really is in a long gruelling match. I'm very uninformed on the subject as you can tell.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

rygu said:


> Just curious PGI, how much weight were you cutting and how much were you gaining back and in how little time? I've never had to do anything like that thankfully I only played Football and Rugby, it sounds like a complete hell. Do all HS/Collegiate wrestlers cut weight? I do wonder just how much of an advantage it really is in a long gruelling match. I'm very uninformed on the subject as you can tell.


My senior year my natural weight was 155 and I wrestled in the 140 weight class. I was pretty good about keeping my weight below 150 so the cut wouldn't be too difficult. 

The bad thing was that none of us knew how to cut weight properly. I mean we were 17 year old kids. We still ate almost whatever we wanted even right before a match. Instead of eating healthy and cutting out saturated fat, we would eat cheese fries and other fatty shit and just deplete our body of water later. It was terrible and it made cutting hurt that much worse. No one told us any different at the time because the coaching staff was really hush hush about cutting weight. The school and even CIF looked down upon it. Everyone did it, but officially no one really talked about it. You would hear guys with trash bags on underneath their sweaters during practice and the coaches would literally just pretend like it was nothing.

Some guys on the team just so happened to naturally fit into the weight class they were needed at. But that was rare. Everything depended on where you fit with the team. Sometimes I would cut to 140, and the coach would move guys around last minute to match up against other guys. So I would bust my ass to make 140 and he would bump me up to the 152 weight class. So cutting the weight and torturing myself was all for nothing. Meanwhile now I'm going against this other guy who's probably weighing over 160 now. But it's all part of the sport I guess.

I would say about 90% of high school kids cut at least 3-5 pounds weekly. I could imagine that in college it's about 95% of people cut weight and they are probably cutting much higher amounts. I remember my friends used to tell me at school on our game days that I looked like shit and that I should drink some water. I just remember thinking "**** YOU!!!".


That was my experience with it at least. Other people in other areas might have had a different one.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I wasn't the smartest weight cutter when i was wrestling. 

I don't mind Alves being so big. If he can make the cut, why not. And he'd be midgeted at 185.


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## Yook (Mar 1, 2012)

SmackyBear said:


> High schools have been slower to change than the NCAA. The NCAA completely revamped weight cutting in the late 90's after three wrestlers died of dehydration in one year.
> 
> But some states, like Iowa, have more stringent rules. I think they call their test a body composition assessment. Boys can only wrestle at the weight they would have if they were properly hydrated at 7% body fat.
> 
> ...


Last year, VA also became more stringent with their weight cutting policies. 

However, I don't see why the UFC should follow in the footsteps of the NCAA or HS leagues. Those guys are student athletes with developing bodies that have a lot to lose, less to gain, and insufficient supervision. 

The UFC is an organization of professionals. They are responsible for their own bodies and it's their lives on the line. Alves might have weighed close to 200 pounds come fight night, but he was still on weight when it counted and he looked fantastic. He should be able to continue his "extreme" weight cutting practices so long as he continues to be a professional about it.


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## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

I'm not a huge fan of massive cuts, all to often somebody gasses and the fight is far from entertaining. In addition, the fighter is spending that much more time on conditioning and weight cutting, and less time on striking/grappling.


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## trulez (Aug 1, 2007)

How about 3 mandatory weigh ins instead of just 1.

1) Weigh in 7 days prior to a fight
2) Weigh in 3 days prior to a fight
3) Weigh in a day prior to a fight

Wouldn't that eliminate the insane weight cuts while making sure fighters are hydrated on a fight day.


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## tripster (Jun 5, 2006)

trulez said:


> How about 3 mandatory weigh ins instead of just 1.
> 
> 1) Weigh in 7 days prior to a fight
> 2) Weigh in 3 days prior to a fight
> ...


With all due respect, that is a ridiculous suggestion. Officials and fightes flying all over the place to weigh-in , sometimes as many as 20 or more fighters for one night.

The only person suffering for such extreme weight cuts are the fighers themselves. Alves is young now and can take the punishment but I'm telling you that his heart is taking a beating. He'll pay for it down the road.


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## Ryan1522 (Oct 31, 2006)

tripster said:


> With all due respect, that is a ridiculous suggestion. Officials and fightes flying all over the place to weigh-in , sometimes as many as 20 or more fighters for one night.
> 
> The only person suffering for such extreme weight cuts are the fighers themselves. Alves is young now and can take the punishment but I'm telling you that his heart is taking a beating. He'll pay for it down the road.


That's just it though. The commission needs to address this problem. Short shortsightedness is people saying "Fighters know their bodies and if they want to put themselves through the pain, then so be it."

A third party governing body, like the commission, with nothing to gain, except for the protection of fighters health, needs to swoop in and address this problem. 

Protecting the long term health of fighters is also the responsibility of the commission. 

There ought to be something in place for protecting fighters from fighting more than they should in terms of receiving concussions as well. What is happening to Gary Goodridge is absolutely saddening and alarming at the same time.


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## tripster (Jun 5, 2006)

Ryan1522 said:


> That's just it though. The commission needs to address this problem. Short shortsightedness is people saying "Fighters know their bodies and if they want to put themselves through the pain, then so be it."
> 
> A third party governing body, like the commission, with nothing to gain, except for the protection of fighters health, needs to swoop in and address this problem.
> 
> ...


Agree with you. Concussions and fighter's health will be the next major issue to face the UFC and MMA in general. Someone is going to need to address it.


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