# Weidman on checking those leg kicks in training with a move called "The Destruction"



## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

*Weidman on checking those leg kicks in training with a move called "The Destruction"*



> The ending of UFC 168's main event could be described as surprising. It could also be called somewhat shocking, but don't you dare call it an accident or a fluke according to the victor, Chris Weidman.
> 
> In case you missed it, UFC middleweight champion, Weidman successfully defended his title on Saturday night against former champion Anderson Silva. The end of the fight came at the 1:16 mark of the second round after a checked leg kick left Silva writhing on the mat with a very broken left leg.
> 
> ...


The fact that Chris states this and the fact that he also cracked Silvas shin in the kick prior to the leg breaking proves that this win was in no way a fluke or "freak injury".

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/12/...an-stops-anderson-silva-using-the-destruction

Please, no more talk of this stuff to discredit Weidmans ability.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Yeah right,

This was just cooked up by Fat Serra after the fact to make Weidman's win look like it wasn't a million to one.

Come on, 'the destruction', its sounds so made up. 



/troll


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Cracked his shin on the kick prior? Link? I'm curious. 

Lol at the moves so called name. Cringe.

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## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

I feel more stupid reading that article. The destruction of my brain is all that happened.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

What a load of crap and it also makes me question the stuff about them game planning for Silva's showboating in the first fight. I thought that was a stretch but this now makes me convinced they will try and take credit no matter what.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

i believe that he worked hard on checking leg kicks and that was a major part of his game plan so he could defend against anderson's kicks

but i amskeptical as to if he expected to snap silva's leg


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

If I left the best fighter ever on the canvas twice you'd be damned sure I took credit twice.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

I believe this is Weidman's camp trolling Steven Seagal. :dunno:

Especially since there was no "knee on shin" involved.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

K R Y said:


> Cracked his shin on the kick prior? Link? I'm curious.
> 
> Lol at the moves so called name. Cringe.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App





> "What I heard from his corner was that first kick that Weidman checked from Anderson, it cracked his shin. He felt it and it felt weird, then he threw that hard kick and his leg broke".


http://www.mmamania.com/2013/12/29/...uires-emergency-surgery-chris-weidman-rematch

People still in denial it seems (not you). You guys think Chris is actually lying about all of this. It's quite clearly evident from the fight alone that Chris spent lots and lots of time learning to check those kicks effectively, against one of the best Muay Thai fighters in the game no less.


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## Zeus (Dec 28, 2013)

Iuanes said:


> Yeah right,
> 
> This was just cooked up by Fat Serra after the fact to make Weidman's win look like it wasn't a million to one.
> 
> ...


this.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Looks like a guy who wrecks shins to me.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

... that's your argument?


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

The knee spike to check a low kick has been around for ages in kickboxing, it's a wonder that it took this long for it to get used in MMA. It's especially effective against an inside low kick since you can slam the knee and upper shin directly into the opponent's shin.

99% of the time the results aren't nearly this dramatic, the guy throwing the kick just ends up limping for a bit and stops throwing low kicks. Once in a while he'll get his foot broken and stop throwing kicks for the rest of the fight. But if everything lines up just right, well, you get a Corey Hill or Anderson Silva.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> ... that's your argument?


What is? The fact that Chris has come out and said that checking Andersons kicks was one of the main focuses of his training camp? Why is this so hard to believe given how the fight ended? Put two and two together.

How about Joe Rogan stating that Chris's coach immediately after the first Silva fight said "Chris needs to check those kicks".

How about Andersons shin cracking from the first blocked leg kick he threw?

Are none of these things adding up to the very obvious conclusion that quite clearly Weidman spent A LOT of time on checking leg kicks, knowing that they would be lethal from one of the most dynamic Muay Thai fighters in the game.

Why can't people accept this? It's baffling to me.


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## HorsepoweR (Jun 1, 2007)

I like how if someone wins and comes out after the fight and claims something like this it's the gospel, but if a guy loses and comes out after the fight and says something it would be called an excuse and bs.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

WOW, Its like I'm taking crazy pills. People are actually suggesting he made it up to make his win look better.

He knew he was getting kicked in the first fight and trained to turn it on anderson. There's video, quotes etc. on this. I can't believe we're still talking about this. It's so sad.


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## Zeus (Dec 28, 2013)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Looks like a guy who wrecks shins to me.


more like a guy who will break a hip soon to me


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> http://www.mmamania.com/2013/12/29/...uires-emergency-surgery-chris-weidman-rematch
> 
> People still in denial it seems (not you). You guys think Chris is actually lying about all of this. It's quite clearly evident from the fight alone that Chris spent lots and lots of time learning to check those kicks effectively, against one of the best Muay Thai fighters in the game no less.





Iuanes said:


> WOW, Its like I'm taking crazy pills. People are actually suggesting he made it up to make his win look better.
> 
> He knew he was getting kicked in the first fight and trained to turn it on anderson. There's video, quotes etc. on this. I can't believe we're still talking about this. It's so sad.


Thank feck these two have some sense. :thumbsup:


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Soojooko said:


> Thank feck these two have some sense. :thumbsup:


You're a big Silva fan too right? Seems that people who can actually judge fights from an objective stand point are a rare thing on this forum.


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## JASONJRF (Nov 3, 2009)

Yea why on earth would anyone think thats crazy is beyond me? Chris trained to check kicks with a certain way of cheking them and it worked better then hoped for him. Chris Wiedman deserves a ton of credit and it sucks people arent giving it to him. 

I'm a huge Silva fan.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> You're a big Silva fan too right? Seems that people who can actually judge fights from an objective stand point are a rare thing on this forum.


A fighters greatness is measured against his opponents. To belittle his opponents - particularly the fighter to finally best him - is to belittle Anderson Silva himself.

Chris Weidman is a special special fighter. Any Silva fan who can't acknowledge that by now is an idiot, period.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Chris is better than Silva... get over it.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Soojooko said:


> A fighters greatness is measured against his opponents. To belittle his opponents - particularly the fighter to finally best him - is to belittle Anderson Silva himself.
> 
> Chris Weidman is a special special fighter. Any Silva fan who can't acknowledge that by now is an idiot, period.


Very well said and great way of looking at it.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

I just hope Weidman doesn't start teaching his magical leg breaking technique to kick boxers it will ruin the sport.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

osmium said:


> I just hope Weidman doesn't start teaching his magical leg breaking technique to kick boxers it will ruin the sport.


no worries, there's only one Superman.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

In a twisted way...very twisted way it is karma. I have seen this happen on many levels not just in sports. But since we are talking about MMA there's a ton of examples.

Chuck getting brutally KOed in his latter part of his career.
Wand as well although he's had a small resurgence.
Fedor vs BF and especially against Hendo.
Big Nog getting his arm broken by Mir and submitted by Werdum.
Royce getting armbarred by Hughes although he didn't tap.
Fitch being "outfitched" by Maia.
BJ's corner throwing in the towel after he berated GSP for tapping out.
Vitor getting TKOed by Randy in their first encounter. To me that's still one of the biggest upsets in MMA history.
JDS getting pummelled and TKOed pretty much a second time after his "pillow hands" remark even though it may have been a joke or taken out of context. 
Matt Hughes laughing at GSP when he got knocked out. Hughes was subsequently knocked out four times after that where in his entire career he was only KOed once against Jose Landi Jons.

Then Mirko getting high kicked into oblivion by a lesser known fighter at the time. That one was full of irony.

Then to add some humour a certain champion stating "he would never be caught with a DUI." Lolz...oh man. 

Now, Weidman will have to repay this debt somewhere down the road. It's the price. He just KOed the best fighter and inadvertently broke his leg perhaps ending his career. The same Anderson has done to countless fighters. 

Guess it's the fight business.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

Ariel Helwani ‏@arielhelwani 18h
RT @SaintMMA: ICYMI, Dana told @arielhelwani that Silva cracked the shin on first kick, broke it on second, according to his corner.
Expand


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

It's probably called "Destruc*SHIN*"


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## StandThemUp (May 30, 2008)

It was a fluke injury. Guys have been checking leg kicks forever. It's not like Chris was the first person to ever check a leg kick, and Silva has had plenty of his kicks checked over the years. If it wasn't a fluke, guys would be breaking legs in every MMA event.

Chris Just got lucky. It's a win, less of a legit win than his first one against Silva, but still a win, a fluke win by injury.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

StandThemUp said:


> It was a fluke injury. Guys have been checking leg kicks forever. It's not like Chris was the first person to ever check a leg kick, and Silva has had plenty of his kicks checked over the years. If it wasn't a fluke, guys would be breaking legs in every MMA event.
> 
> Chris Just got lucky. It's a win, less of a legit win than his first one against Silva, but still a win, a fluke win by injury.


The fact that the technique caused damage to Silva's bones not once but twice kind of makes it seem not like a fluke. Maybe Anderson shouldn't have been throwing full speed leg kicks without setting them up, Chris had practiced the defense so much you can see it in the .5 seconds before the kick lands; right hand opens goes to chin to block a low kick fake high head kick, left hand goes down to lessen the momentum of the leg and the left knee goes up slightly all practiced through routine to complete defend against a kick from Anderson's left leg.

If one fighter makes a mistake while another uses a technique specifically to counter said fighters mistake I can't agree that it was a fluke. People keep spouting off that there are thousands of leg kicks that get checked but how many of them are at full speed, with no setup only a few inches above the knee? The whole thing seems the opposite of a fluke to me. Throwing kicks at full speed like Anderson did was a mistake, Chris noted it, trained for it and used it. The fact that the bone broke so horrifically was terrible but the physics of the situation are what made it break, kicking a guys knee with your ankle twice at full speed has a high chance of fracture. I'm a big fan of Silva too but he got beat plain and simple, Chris had his distance down pat and was able to beat Silva everywhere they fought including in the long distance striking/countering.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

StandThemUp said:


> Chris Just got lucky. It's a win, less of a legit win than his first one against Silva, but still a win, a fluke win by injury.


what? Weidman was dominating everywhere. Even if Silva wouldn't have broken the leg there is nothing to point to that he would have won the fight.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

StandThemUp said:


> It was a fluke injury. Guys have been checking leg kicks forever. It's not like Chris was the first person to ever check a leg kick, and Silva has had plenty of his kicks checked over the years. If it wasn't a fluke, guys would be breaking legs in every MMA event.
> 
> Chris Just got lucky. It's a win, less of a legit win than his first one against Silva, but still a win, a fluke win by injury.


Where are the examples of Silvas opponents checking his kicks? I'm not just going to take your word for it, show me examples. From the fights I've seen of Silva, he's been able to land kicks at will against all of his opponents.

Cracking Silva's shin with the first checked kick and then completely dismantling it with the second, after training SPECIFICALLY for checking Silvas kicks is no "fluke" and if you believe it is, then you're a coincidence theorist or in denial of the truth.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

I think Weidman has inherited Anderson's trolling ability luke highlander.

There can only be one!

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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

There's a bit more to it. First, it's freakin' dangerous to aim leg kicks at the knee area, especially inside leg kicks. Even kicks to the outside can get checked with fight ending results, for example, look up Ray Sefo vs. Ernesto Hoost in their 2002 fight. This is why inside leg kicks are usually aimed at the midpoint or upper half of the thigh, it reduces the chances of getting knee spiked and having your foot or shin broken.

Silva, for whatever reason threw his low kick right in the knee area. All Weidman had to do was bend his knee into the direction of the kick and weight it, not only does it check the kick it hurts like hell for the kicker. And in some cases it results in a broken foot or shin bone.

So, overall it was a combination of Weidman learning from his first fight that checking low kicks is a good thing, plus Anderson failing to learn and attempting high risk kicks right into the knee area where they'd get checked in a bad way.

Maybe Anderson thought he could get a 1-shot knee break by kicking out Weidman's knee, I don't know if we'll ever know what he was thinking, or wasn't thinking. Whatever the case, that high risk move backfired in spectacular fashion.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

hellholming said:


> what? Weidman was dominating everywhere. Even if Silva wouldn't have broken the leg there is nothing to point to that he would have won the fight.


There is nothing to point to him beating Henderson after the 1st, Chael Sonnen after the 4th and 1st in second fight. 

I don't think Weidman is better, just a bad match up stylistically... for Silva at any point in his career. I like to point to Patrick Cote as another fighter who refused to engage Silva, Silva struggle to get anything going before his knee went.


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## sucrets (Jul 8, 2007)

You have to be beyond ignorant to belive whatever nonsense the weidman camp is selling to make their second fluke win seem like anything close to legitimate.

Out of the thousands of leg kicks that get thrown in the UFC this unfortunately happened to break the leg of the best fighter in the history of the sport. This is a sad day for the UFC.

I just hope this doesn't end Silva's career. It would really be a shame.

I don't expect weidman to hold on to the belt for long. He will get destroyed soon enough and I look forward to it.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

People actually believe Weidman tried to break Anderson's leg by using a secret leg kick checking method? He checked the leg kicks, end of story. People check leg kicks all the time in kickboxing, it's part of the game to learn to check leg kicks. This is not some secret technique called "DestrucSHIN" although I find the name pretty funny, it's checking a freaking leg kick.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

I think its obvious that Weidman worked on Checking leg kicks.

But you have to be a nut job to believe that he did so believing he will break Andersons Leg in half. Cmon now...


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> *People actually believe Weidman tried to break Anderson's leg by using a secret leg kick checking method?* He checked the leg kicks, end of story. People check leg kicks all the time in kickboxing, it's part of the game to learn to check leg kicks. This is not some secret technique called "DestrucSHIN" although I find the name pretty funny, it's checking a freaking leg kick.


I don't think that was ever implied and people would be stupid to believe that Weidmans gameplan was to check kicks with the sole purpose of breaking Andersons shin.

What is the case how ever, is that Weidman specifically trained checking those low kicks with the intent to neutralise Andersons kicking game AND cause some damage. Checking leg kicks are not purely a defensive manoeuvre, when a shin collides full force into a knee, it's going to really hurt. Chris knew this, every kickboxer/MMA fighter knows this.

Chris didn't think it was going to break Anderson leg (he even says so in the article), but he knew if he checked them correctly it would cause Anderson some damage and completely shut down his kicking game. He got more than he bargained for with the leg break, but this doesn't some how mean it was a fluke. The shin cracking on the first checked kick proves this.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

SideWays222 said:


> I think its obvious that Weidman worked on Checking leg kicks.
> 
> *But you have to be a nut job to believe that he did so believing he will break Andersons Leg in half. Cmon now...*


Again, where was this ever implied in the article presented? Weidman says in the article that he himself was surprised that Andersons leg broke.

Seems people just read headlines, don't bother reading the actual contents of the article and make up their own random assumption and misinterpretations.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Again, where was this ever implied in the article presented? Weidman says in the article that he himself was surprised that Andersons leg broke.
> 
> Seems people just read headlines, don't bother reading the actual contents of the article and make up their own random assumption and misinterpretations.


Well what the hell do you call a move "The Destruction" if your not hinting at it DESTROYING something. If they were implying that the secret check kick method gave the opponent a bruise then "The Destruction" does not actually fit does it??

And i wasnt exactly talking about the article but more about some of the posts iv seen. Where did i actually imply i was talking about your post/article??

And Weidman checked with his SHIN.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Well what the hell do you call a move "The Destruction" if your not hinting at it DESTROYING something. If they were implying that the secret check kick method gave the opponent a bruise then "The Destruction" does not actually fit does it??
> 
> And i wasnt exactly talking about the article but more about some of the posts iv seen. Where did i actually imply i was talking about your post/article??
> 
> And Weidman checked with his SHIN.


The implication is that, if you pull off the technique perfectly, it will seriously feck up your opponents leg. But as we spoke about earlier, pulling off any striking technique perfectly requires some luck. Your opponent has to be in the right place doing the right thing. In this instance, unfortunately for Anderson, it all came together. A very powerful kick being checked perfectly twice = broken leg. Was it lucky? Yes. Does it take skill to check one of the most experience kickers in MMA? Yes.

Breaking Anderson's leg was a fluke. But make no mistake, Chris was trying to shut down Anderson's kicking. He wasn't just checking to defend himself. He was attacking with those checks.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

I would say they just worked out a better leg kick check for that fight, a slight adjustment of angle or whatever. They knew where silva likes to kick, so they know where to line up the shin to do maximum damage. Im sure they thought he would hurt himself on that. Simple good coaching from an oldschool coach is what it is.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Soojooko said:


> The implication is that, if you pull off the technique perfectly, it will seriously feck up your opponents leg. But as we spoke about earlier, pulling off any striking technique perfectly requires some luck. Your opponent has to be in the right place doing the right thing. In this instance, unfortunately for Anderson, it all came together. A very powerful kick being checked perfectly twice = broken leg. Was it lucky? Yes. Does it take skill to check one of the most experience kickers in MMA? Yes.
> 
> Breaking Anderson's leg was a fluke. But make no mistake, Chris was trying to shut down Anderson's kicking. He wasn't just checking to defend himself. He was attacking with those checks.


Have you never had a kick checked?? While it does hurt it usually does not "Seriously **** up your opponents leg"


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Have you never had a kick checked?? While it does hurt it usually does not "Seriously **** up your opponents leg"


I said the "perfect" check. I also said two very powerful kicks were involved. I'm not talking what happens every day in an MMA gym. Surely you can see the difference?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Soojooko said:


> I said the "perfect" check. I also said two very powerful kicks. I'm not talking what happens every day in an MMA gym. Surely you can see the difference?


Even the perfect check does not break your opponents leg 99% of the time or seriously **** it up.

What happened here is a fluke thing.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Even the perfect check does not break your opponents leg 99% of the time or seriously **** it up.
> 
> What happened here is a fluke thing.


No.But the perfect knee spike does. They are designed to feck up legs if done properly. Are you saying that Chris was trying to do a couple of normal checks, but ended up pulling off two perfect knee spikes by total accident?

And yes, I know it's not technically the knee, but the upper shin. That's exactly the area you need your opponent to hit with their shin. If you actually used your knee vs shin, you would come off worse.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Soojooko said:


> No.But the perfect knee spike does. They are designed to feck up legs if done properly. Are you saying that Chris was trying to do a couple of normal checks, but ended up pulling off two perfect knee spikes by total accident?
> 
> And yes, I know it's not technically the knee, but the upper shin. That's exactly the area you need your opponent to hit with their shin. If you actually used your knee vs shin, you would come off worse.



He barely turned his knee enough for Anderson to hit the front/side of Weidmans shin bone. It was a normal avereage check with very rare results. 

i quiet honestly dont know what this "He *Spiked* his knee into Andys kick" means. If that means he lifted and turned his leg slightly so andy would kick his shin then yeah he "Spiked it". But if it means that he checked Andersons kick back with force with his shin in order to cause damage when he checked then i just dont see it. Weidmans check wasnt any different then a normal check.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> He barely turned his knee enough for Anderson to hit the front/side of Weidmans shin bone. It was a normal avereage check with very rare results.
> 
> i quiet honestly dont know what this "He *Spiked* his knee into Andys kick" means. If that means he lifted and turned his leg slightly so andy would kick his shin then yeah he "Spiked it". But if it means that he checked Andersons kick back with force with his shin in order to cause damage when he checked then i just dont see it. Weidmans check wasnt any different then a normal check.


Knee spikes are old school Thai techniques. Just a name given to this type of check. From here, we can't really debate anymore as it gets too subjective. You think he tried for two normal checks with funky results, which could be true. I think he was trained to check like that, which could also be true.

Either way, Chris came into the fight with that part of his game sorted out enough to stop Anderson fecking him up with kicks all night. And it worked.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> Even the perfect check does not break your opponents leg 99% of the time or seriously **** it up.
> 
> What happened here is a fluke thing.


That's because you rarely see a perfect check. In kickboxing and Muay Thai, the fighters know that a knee spike is on the table so they work their low kicks around it. You will never see anyone in K-1 attempt the same kick that Anderson did because the risk of getting a foot or leg damaged or broken is way too high. The kicks go low on the calf the way Bendo does them or they go to the meat of the thigh, kicks do not go near the knee unless the opponent is setup with other strikes first or off balanced so that they can't properly check the low kick.

In MMA, striking and striking defence blows goats. In the UFC, checking a leg kick means lifting your foot off the ground with no attention paid to any of the details. Low kick an MMA fighter and the worst you have to worry about is getting taken down, up until Korean Zombie vs. Aldo no one checked low kicks with the intention of causing damage (KZ broke Aldo's foot with his check). 

I've watched the fight a few more times and my conclusion is that Anderson did everything wrong with his low kicks while Weidman did a lot of things right. Silva was throwing low kicks with no setup. Worse yet, he was throwing them at the knee area. And worst of all, he was in a southpaw vs. orthodox stance when he threw an inside leg kick with his rear leg.

What does this mean? Silva was throwing a very high risk leg kick.  Throwing the rear leg from a southpaw stance means the kick has further to travel to get to its target, this gives Weidman more time to do something. The kick was thrown with no setup, Weidman gets to stay in balance and do something about it. And it was thrown to the knee area which makes it a juicy target for a knee spike. All Weidman had to do was turn his lead leg into the direction of the incoming strike and get his own leg up a bit. This is basic kickboxing 101.

The best striker in MMA is not perfect. He still makes basic fundamental mistakes and Weidman managed to capitalize on it. The odds of a leg break off a checked kick are very low, but what Anderson and Weidman did upped the chances a few thousand times.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Soojooko said:


> Knee spikes are old school Thai techniques. Just a name given to this type of check. From here, we can't really debate anymore as it gets too subjective. You think he tried for two normal checks with funky results, which could be true. I think he was trained to check like that, which could also be true.
> 
> Either way, Chris came into the fight with that part of his game sorted out enough to stop Anderson fecking him up with kicks all night. And it worked.


A "Knee Spike" is a check as far as im aware. It is defending the kick with the thick part of your shin which is right below the knee. Which is why i said if thats what people are referring to the "He spiked Andersons knee" then yes he did a knee spike. But from what im reading im getting a different impression of what people think a knee spike means. 

Iv always been taught that a regular check is a knee spike. Just a different name for it.


Iv read some people say that a knee spike is blocking the kick with your actual knee but Weidman didnt block with his knee and i imagine blocking with your knee is very dangerous.

Either way i watched the gif over and over and i dont see anything different that Weidman did then what anyone else does when they check a kick.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Bloody elbow have just posted up a cool piece:
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/12/...ck-check-break-shin-knee-spike-mma-technique?

Basically, knee spikes are what is considered a perfect check. Where you damage your opponent as well as defend yourself. The article highlights just how far most MMA fighters are from performing these checks properly. I always considered Anderson to have excellent kicking technique, but reading the above shows he was still lacking.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Soojooko said:


> Bloody elbow have just posted up a cool piece:
> http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/12/...ck-check-break-shin-knee-spike-mma-technique?
> 
> Basically, knee spikes are what is considered a perfect check. Where you damage your opponent as well as defend yourself. The article highlights just how far most MMA fighters are from performing these checks properly. I always considered Anderson to have excellent kicking technique, but reading the above shows he was still lacking.


Great read.

Another thing to factor in is that if the roles were reversed and Anderson broke Weidmans leg through a hard check, people would be labelling Anderson as a kicking wizard. "Anderson can not only win fights via kicking, but he can also end them with his opponent kicking his knee". People would be hailing Anderson Silva as a god if he broke Chris's leg with a hard check, he'd be labelled as a complete master mind of striking.


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## tomjones (Mar 18, 2007)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Great read.
> 
> Another thing to factor in is that if the roles were reversed and Anderson broke Weidmans leg through a hard check, people would be labelling Anderson as a kicking wizard. "Anderson can not only win fights via kicking, but he can also end them with his opponent kicking his knee". People would be hailing Anderson Silva as a god if he broke Chris's leg with a hard check, he'd be labelled as a complete master mind of striking.


If it happened to Weidman people would of quickly forgotten about the fight. It would of been similar to the fight with Cote.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

tomjones said:


> If it happened to Weidman people would of quickly forgotten about the fight. It would of been similar to the fight with Cote.


denial at it's finest


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## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

I'm a bit confused here, having watched MMA since the first UFC and all brands of MMA since, but having never been a practitioner, I get the impression that some people are insinuating that Weidman did something illegal or unsportsman like and I don't get this. Is this a legitimate scenario or is it more like they're butt hurt AS fanboys?


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> Bloody elbow have just posted up a cool piece:
> http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/12/...ck-check-break-shin-knee-spike-mma-technique?
> 
> Basically, knee spikes are what is considered a perfect check. Where you damage your opponent as well as defend yourself. The article highlights just how far most MMA fighters are from performing these checks properly. I always considered Anderson to have excellent kicking technique, but reading the above shows he was still lacking.


thanks for the article. Great stuff.

Another beauty article by Jack Slack about the incident.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1904314-ufc-168-how-chris-weidman-buried-the-legend

Pretty much confirms the idea that most mma fighters, don't check properly or enough, and that kicks don't need to be thrown with setups because of it. 

Kickboxer have harder shins, and are smart enough not to throw without setups. Hence not having breaks all time. when has anyone ever checked silva's kicks?

Silva throwing a hard kick with no set up when Weidman was expecting and training for it = bad day for Silv'as shin, break or no break.


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## MCMAP Wizzard (Feb 5, 2012)

Iuanes said:


> thanks for the article. Great stuff.
> 
> Another beauty article by Jack Slack about the incident.
> 
> ...


Excellent article, should be required reading for Silva fans before posting on the topic. Weidman being the underdog going into that fight was laughable, I'm glad he proved himself and finished Anderson yet again.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

dave-stjohn said:


> I'm a bit confused here, having watched MMA since the first UFC and all brands of MMA since, but having never been a practitioner, I get the impression that some people are insinuating that Weidman did something illegal or unsportsman like and I don't get this. Is this a legitimate scenario or is it more like they're butt hurt AS fanboys?


No Weidman did not do anything illegal. I saw something like that when i did some google searches and thats just nonsense.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Soojooko said:


> Bloody elbow have just posted up a cool piece:
> http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/12/...ck-check-break-shin-knee-spike-mma-technique?
> 
> Basically, knee spikes are what is considered a perfect check. Where you damage your opponent as well as defend yourself. The article highlights just how far most MMA fighters are from performing these checks properly. I always considered Anderson to have excellent kicking technique, but reading the above shows he was still lacking.


Perfect check?? lol




> Enter the "hard" check. This technique is now being referred to as a "knee spike," but I believe that term to be a bit of a misnomer. In reality, the kneecap should make no contact with the shin of the opponent--I can personally attest to the fact that, in a battle between tibia and patella, patella loses. Painfully. Rather, the uppermost part of the shin, the thickest and strongest part of the bone, is the intended zone of contact for a hard check. When the thinner, lower shin of the opponent meets the upper shin of the defender


Which is exactly what i said it was.



> A "Knee Spike" is a check as far as im aware. It is defending the kick with the thick part of your shin which is right below the knee. Which is why i said if thats what people are referring to the "He spiked Andersons knee" then yes he did a knee spike. But from what im reading im getting a different impression of what people think a knee spike means.
> 
> Iv read some people say that a knee spike is blocking the kick with your actual knee but Weidman didnt block with his knee and i imagine blocking with your knee is very dangerous.


Its the check i was trained the first time i learned checks. Iv actually never heard of a "Soft Check" before.

And its really annoying that people say Weidman defended with his knee. I can only assume those people dont know shit.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Great read.
> 
> Another thing to factor in is that if the roles were reversed and Anderson broke Weidmans leg through a hard check, people would be labelling Anderson as a kicking wizard. "Anderson can not only win fights via kicking, but he can also end them with his opponent kicking his knee". People would be hailing Anderson Silva as a god if he broke Chris's leg with a hard check, he'd be labelled as a complete master mind of striking.


As much as I'd hate to admit it. Yeah probably. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Sideways is bang on with what he is saying in this thread about the checks. 

Weidman did nothing out of the ordinary as far as checks go. He did the same as any competent MMA or Muay Thai fighter does in checking a kick properly. Yeah, he probably drilled them 100s of times to get the technique perfect but it was not a special move.

A check is predominantly a defensive move. It's primary function is to block the incoming kick. Preferably with the upper, thicker, part of the shin. It's secondary function is to deter the kicker from throwing the kick again as anyone who has ever had a kick checked properly knows it friggin hurts,

However, just because it hurts to have a kick checked doesn't make it an offensive move. This whole 'destruction special check' thing is ridiculous.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Another thing to factor in is that if the roles were reversed and Anderson broke Weidmans leg through a hard check, people would be labelling Anderson as a kicking wizard. "Anderson can not only win fights via kicking, but he can also end them with his opponent kicking his knee". People would be hailing Anderson Silva as a god if he broke Chris's leg with a hard check, he'd be labelled as a complete master mind of striking.


Oh god, that's so true & I don't think I could handle that. Right now it's only amusement for me, but that woulda been too much. haha


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Steven seagal would have taken the credit


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Speaking of Steven Seagal, was he helping out Silva in his training for the past 2 fights?
Because if he wasn't, it would totally explain everything.


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## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

Woodenhead said:


> Oh god, that's so true & I don't think I could handle that. Right now it's only amusement for me, but that woulda been too much. haha


This seems to be the same fuss made over AS's dispatch of Vitor with that never before seen (except by any white belt ever)front kick Segal taught him.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

How gay is it if they actually called a normal leg check "destruction"...


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## MCMAP Wizzard (Feb 5, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> Perfect check?? lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Delusional much? Some folk just ain't too bright.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

MCMAP Wizzard said:


> Delusional much? Some folk just ain't too bright.


What is delusional about what sideways said? He is right, soft checks are just proper checks not done correctly. I have also never heard of a 'soft check'.

Explain yourself instead of throwing insults around.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Killz said:


> Sideways is bang on with what he is saying in this thread about the checks.
> 
> Weidman did nothing out of the ordinary as far as checks go. He did the same as any competent MMA or Muay Thai fighter does in checking a kick properly. Yeah, he probably drilled them 100s of times to get the technique perfect but it was not a special move.
> 
> ...


Come on kills. Nobody called anything "special". Simply implying that a check done properly can cause the opponent a fair bit of pain. And that Chris was clearly doing his checks exactly as he needed to to shut down Silva kicking game. What I find most interesting is that this fight has highlighted how few fighters in MMA do actually check properly. And that Chris is a serious student of the game if he can go from throwing virtually no checks at all, to what we saw in the silva fight, in a few months.

All debates aside, this whole incident has certainly given us much food for thought as far as the MMA kicking game goes.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> Come on kills. Nobody called anything "special". Simply implying that a check done properly can cause the opponent a fair bit of pain. And that Chris was clearly doing his checks exactly as he needed to to shut down Silva kicking game. What I find most interesting is that this fight has highlighted how few fighters in MMA do actually check properly. And that Chris is a serious student of the game if he can go from throwing virtually no checks at all, to what we saw in the silva fight, in a few months.
> 
> All debates aside, this whole incident has certainly given us much food for thought as far as the MMA kicking game goes.


Calling a check 'the destruction' clearly implies it's special to me... When it obviously isn't. Like you say, he went from nothing, to that in a few months. It's a basic, correctly done check, nothing more, nothing less.

I agree with you on the rest though. Never has so much discussion gone on about a certain, previously rarely mentioned technique. Especially a defensive technique :hug:


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Killz said:


> Calling a check 'the destruction' clearly implies it's special to me... When it obviously isn't. Like you say, he went from nothing, to that in a few months. It's a basic, correctly done check, nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> I agree with you on the rest though. Never has so much discussion gone on about a certain, previously rarely mentioned technique. Especially a defensive technique :hug:


Yea, ok. I see your point regards Weidmans camp giving it a special name when the move had a name already. If they hadn't come up with the whole "destruction" thing, this whole debate would have been a lot more productive for sure.

Still, one of the most interesting topics in quite a while. :thumbsup:


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm guessing the whole "destruction" thing is a pun. it's possible I'm being charitable though.

Anyway, I can see an MMA gym having a special name for a technique that is hardly ever used in MMA.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

The level of butthurt in this forum has crossed new highs. 

Yes it was an intentional offensive move - a hard check - and no it wasn't a "secret" technique never seen in K1. The hard check has been around forever and it's the reason most professional kickboxers don't throw such hard leg kicks near the knee without setup. 

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/19541041-post32.html

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/12/...ick-check-break-shin-knee-spike-mma-technique

But of course the greatest striker in the world got his ass handed to him on a platter again so it must be yet another fluke and all logical explanations are trolling. And people haven't heard about the hard check at jane's cardio kickboxing class then it must not exist.

Too bad there won't be a third "fluke" for me to clean out the fanboys again.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

As a side note, anyone looking forward to rogan creaming his pants every time Weidman checks a kick for the rest of his UFC career.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Killz said:


> As a side note, anyone looking forward to rogan creaming his pants every time Weidman checks a kick for the rest of his UFC career.


Purely for the jokes I hope Vitor wins by headkick again.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Oh man imagine the $#!%storm if Vitor breaks his shin on Weidman's head.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Killz said:


> As a side note, anyone looking forward to rogan creaming his pants every time Weidman checks a kick for the rest of his UFC career.


Oh god. We're in for a long and annoying title reign.

"Look for Weidman to utilize the "destruction" the technique he famously utilized to break Anderson Silva's leg in UFC 168." :sarcastic07:


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

Woodenhead said:


> Oh man imagine the $#!%storm if *Vitor breaks his shin on Weidman's head.*


I wonder what special name Serra would give that "move". The Steel plate? Hard Head? The Rock? Imagine the possibilities:laugh:


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## JASONJRF (Nov 3, 2009)

StandThemUp said:


> It was a fluke injury. Guys have been checking leg kicks forever. It's not like Chris was the first person to ever check a leg kick, and Silva has had plenty of his kicks checked over the years. If it wasn't a fluke, guys would be breaking legs in every MMA event.
> 
> Chris Just got lucky. It's a win, less of a legit win than his first one against Silva, but still a win, a fluke win by injury.


Yea but Chris was the first one to check a leg kick using DESTRUCTION.


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## tomjones (Mar 18, 2007)

The doctors move is called the construction and hopefully Silva has a full recovery but still retires.


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## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

Maybe Wiedman is just trying to intimidate future fighters so they won't try the leg kick very often??
If someone else were to hurt their leg while throwing a leg kick at Wiedman then we would have threads like this for months...


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Another thing to factor in is that if the roles were reversed and Anderson broke Weidmans leg through a hard check, people would be labelling Anderson as a kicking wizard. "Anderson can not only win fights via kicking, but he can also end them with his opponent kicking his knee". People would be hailing Anderson Silva as a god if he broke Chris's leg with a hard check, he'd be labelled as a complete master mind of striking.


Maybe, but the difference also is that Silva has shown plenty of times that he can do things that most people thought to be impossible. Reverse elbows you only know from movies, matrixing opponent's punches, winning after being dominated for 23min, front kick KO etc. Weidman on the other hand has never shown any special technique outside the core MMA skills. So of course it would be easier to believe in Silva's precision of executing a hard spiking block perfectly and thinking Weidman just blocked regularly (not denying that he specificly trained to check kicks), but Silva got unlucky to actually break his leg on that check.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

I fail to see how kicking someone's knee at full speed with a cracked tibia and breaking it has anything to do with luck


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Voiceless said:


> Maybe, but the difference also is that Silva has shown plenty of times that he can do things that most people thought to be impossible. Reverse elbows you only know from movies, matrixing opponent's punches, winning after being dominated for 23min, front kick KO etc. Weidman on the other hand has never shown any special technique outside the core MMA skills. So of course it would be easier to believe in Silva's precision of executing a hard spiking block perfectly and thinking Weidman just blocked regularly (not denying that he specificly trained to check kicks), but Silva got unlucky to actually break his leg on that check.


A Knee Spike is a normal check. This whole mess with Silva has got people hearing the word "Knee Spike" for the first time and making up crazy theories as to what that is and then going and putting it out there as facts and then people believe it. Iv read posts where people claim Weidman the last inch spiked Andersons leg with his knee in a downward motion and thats why its called a "Knee Spike". 
Literally a knee spike is nothing more then checking the kick with the thickest part of your shin which is right below the knee. Which is a very common check. Its standard practice for any Muay Thai or Kick boxer. Quiet frankly im going to start paying more attention in MMA when it comes to checking cause its probably common there too. Then again sometimes i get surprised at what MMA fighters dont know. Like when Wanderlei didnt know how to complete the guillotine choke on Bisping or when GSP didnt know how to complete the Kimura on Dan Hardy. Im sure others probably have noticed more examples then that. 

I know some people here have actually fought in the cage. Is it likely for you to forget about proper technique on maneuvers due to the adrenaline or something else??


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> A Knee Spike is a normal check. This whole mess with Silva has got people hearing the word "Knee Spike" for the first time and making up crazy theories as to what that is and then going and putting it out there as facts and then people believe it. Iv read posts where people claim Weidman the last inch spiked Andersons leg with his knee in a downward motion and thats why its called a "Knee Spike".
> Literally a knee spike is nothing more then checking the kick with the thickest part of your shin which is right below the knee. Which is a very common check. Its standard practice for any Muay Thai or Kick boxer. Quiet frankly im going to start paying more attention in MMA when it comes to checking cause its probably common there too.


As I've written in anouther thread, 

There are several ways of checking leg kicks. I'd say you can devide them in three groups: Damage reducing (or basic check), destructive (or aggressive check what we now discuss as "spiking") and tactically deflecting.

Damage reducing would be the most simple one. You try to lift your leg just in time so your opponent doesn't hit your thigh. Just lifting your leg is the fastest way to do so, but you eventually take damage on your lower leg as you don't really control where he hits you on your lower leg.

Destructive is like counterpunching. You try to actually aim what part of your body will connect with what part of your opponent's striking limb. In case of low kicks you would try to block with the upper part of your shin bone, close to your knee. There, your bone is the thickest and because it's close to the joint (knee) the lower leg won't move like a spring, but stay in place like a solid object. You want that your opponent hits you with a more fragile part of his body. The case of your opponent's tibia breaking is really rare, but when you can manage the right distance so that your opponent hits the mentioned part of your shin bone with his instep, there is a pretty good chance of him breaking some of his metatarsal bones which will shut done his footwork or even ability to walk properly.
You can even damage those bones when your opponent throws a body kick and you block his instep with your elbow.

Tactically deflecting would be lifting your leg and to take the opponent's low kick with your instep like a spring and than pushing it out again with you controlling the direction it's going. That often takes your opponent by surprise and forces him to a disadvantageous stance which may give you the opportunity to counter. With this kind of checking, both sides get the least amount of damage.


Actually, often MMA fighters do not check "aggressively", but just do the basic check and lift their legs without aiming where and how to check. So often the impact goes to the side of their lower leg and not the frontal part below the knee.

There are several factors why they do that instead using one of the other two ways: 
The basic check is the fastest and often they just don't react in time for the other ways. The basic check will automatically happen if you would go for one of the other ways, but don't have the time to adjust as lifting your leg is part of the other ways.
Stance. In Muay Thai you usually have a different stance than in MMA. Your weight is mostly on your rear leg with the front leg bouncing and being ready to check incoming low kicks. In MMA you usually have a lower stance with at least part of your weight on the front leg. Checking low kicks from this stance takes a little bit more time. Those milliseconds can make the difference.
Training. A lot of MMA fighters don't have a real striking background. 3-5 years of striking training maybe enough to compete if you are tough and your other skills make you "well rounded", but it's not enough to naturally execute perfect technique under pressure.



> Then again sometimes i get surprised at what MMA fighters dont know. Like when Wanderlei didnt know how to complete the guillotine choke on Bisping or when GSP didnt know how to complete the Kimura on Dan Hardy. Im sure others probably have noticed more examples then that.
> 
> I know some people here have actually fought in the cage. Is it likely for you to forget about proper technique on maneuvers due to the adrenaline or something else??


Yes, as written above, 3-5 of training (MMA fighters have to share time between all the different aspects of fighting where individual martial arts can concentrate on one aspect) is not enough for your body to naturally execute the technique under pressure. Under real pressure techniques must go on autopilot, but it takes a really long time for your body and brain to ingrain techniques that deep and to overwrite the instinctual behaviour.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Voiceless said:


> Yes, as written above, 3-5 of training (MMA fighters have to share time between all the different aspects of fighting where individual martial arts can concentrate on one aspect) is not enough for your body to naturally execute the technique under pressure. Under real pressure techniques must go on autopilot, but it takes a really long time for your body and brain to ingrain techniques that deep and to overwrite the instinctual behaviour.


If you have fought in the cage you should get yourself the Fighter Avy thing they have at this website. 

If you have not fought then nvm.

Personally that thought crossed my mind but i just dont fully buy it. You do something for 2 hours a day for the last 10-20 years or so then it should become natural. Especially something as simple as pulling your upper body in when holding on to a guillotine choke instead of putting your upper body back.

Also GSP did not KNOW how to finish the Kimura and he went and asked one of the gracies i believe afterward about what he did wrong. So it wasnt about him forgetting in the moment the guy just did not know.

Unlike Ben Henderson who instantly realized what he did wrong in his loss to Pettis.


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## Gustafsson Fan (Apr 3, 2012)

aerius said:


> There's a bit more to it. First, it's freakin' dangerous to aim leg kicks at the knee area, especially inside leg kicks. Even kicks to the outside can get checked with fight ending results, for example, look up Ray Sefo vs. Ernesto Hoost in their 2002 fight. This is why inside leg kicks are usually aimed at the midpoint or upper half of the thigh, it reduces the chances of getting knee spiked and having your foot or shin broken.
> 
> Silva, for whatever reason threw his low kick right in the knee area. All Weidman had to do was bend his knee into the direction of the kick and weight it, not only does it check the kick it hurts like hell for the kicker. And in some cases it results in a broken foot or shin bone.
> 
> ...


Silva was desperate and needed to turn the tide of the fight. The 1st round domination by Weidman on Silva set up this situation.




sucrets said:


> You have to be beyond ignorant to belive whatever nonsense the weidman camp is selling to make their second fluke win seem like anything close to legitimate.
> 
> Out of the thousands of leg kicks that get thrown in the UFC this unfortunately happened to break the leg of the best fighter in the history of the sport. This is a sad day for the UFC.
> 
> ...


You kidding me? Weidman will probably win 90% of his fights in the coming years. He will probably lose once due to injury, cut or someone landing a huge kick (Vitor for example). Like Cain he will come back to win at leist 2 out of 3 vs anyone in his division.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Sometimes you throw a strike, with the intention of landing the punch... with the intention of discouraging the aggression of the opponent, limiting the movement, controlling them. Its been often said that the check was a defensive move, but realistically so are many punches... thrown to limit the offense of the opponent.

Sometimes despite that intention the strike knocks them out. Is that luck? Unintentional? There is always a hint of luck with any strike, sometimes the results exceed what was expected yet in most cases (like with a punch) its not very obvious, but its what often happens. With this fight it was just more obvious that the check was not designed to take Anderson out right there and then. 

But this happens all the time and the winner usually gets credit, which should be what is happening here.


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