# Is the Cyborg-Carano outcome good for Strikeforce? For women's MMA?



## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

I'm gonna sound like a superficial **** here, but let's face it -- MMA fans are men in the majority, 18-35, and Gina is way more charismatic and way, way, way better looking than Christiane.

Would a win by Gina have been a better thing for women's MMA, in terms of mainstream exposure?

Discuss.


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

Your title is kind of spolierish don't you think? I already saw the fight but others may not have.

I don't know if it was good or bad for women's MMA but I think from a marketing standpoint, Gina is a much better commodity for stikeforce than Cyborg.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

vandalian said:


> I'm gonna sound like a superficial **** here, but let's face it -- MMA fans are men in the majority, 18-35, and Gina is way more charismatic and way, way, way better looking than Christiane.
> 
> Would a win by Gina have been a better thing for women's MMA, in terms of mainstream exposure?
> 
> Discuss.


If you want womens MMA to stay where it was before this fight which was sorta a novelty then Cyborg's win was bad. I actually think Gina losing will be better because now other women fighters will feel that the sport isn't just about Gina. BTW when have any of Gina's opponents been hotter than her lol.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Yes IMO Santos's victory was great for womens MMA. :thumbsup:

It showed that a true compeditor can achieve a victory with hard work.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

J.P. said:


> Yes IMO Santos's victory was great for womens MMA. :thumbsup:
> 
> It showed that a true compeditor can achieve a victory with hard work.


TY Good post actually I think Cyborg is quite marketable did u see the video they had Gina in a dress and Cyborg all sweaty I was like sheesh play it up if I wanted hottness I will look at Playboy.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

I agree with J.P. because I think that since she has lost a lot of her star appeal, Strikeforce will be forced to find/promote better female fighters. Especially since she isn't the only "pretty" female MMA fighter.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

Davisty69 said:


> I agree with J.P. because I think that since she has lost a lot of her star appeal, Strikeforce will be forced to find/promote better female fighters. Especially since she isn't the only "pretty" female MMA fighter.


 I thought I made that point lol not J.P haha kidding


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

jeffmantx said:


> I thought I made that point lol not J.P haha kidding


I don't like your posts... J/K 

Just agreeing with J.P.'s overall post.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

jeffmantx said:


> I thought I made that point lol not J.P haha kidding



Hey what can I say, guess I got there in a more dominate fasion..


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Fixeed the spoiler thing. What's the statute of limitaions on that stuff, anyway?

Cyborg was the better fighter, and deserved everey bit of her win. But considering MMA's target demo's, is that a good thing from a marketing standpoint.

I mean, how many 18-year-old dudes are gonna put Christian Santos posters on their bedroom walls?


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

Davisty69 said:


> I don't like your posts... J/K
> 
> Just agreeing with J.P.'s overall post.


Hey now lol yea IMHO Gina was sloppy and was it just me or did she look way out of shape and slow?


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

vandalian said:


> Fixeed the spoiler thing. What's the statute of limitaions on that stuff, anyway?
> 
> Cyborg was the better fighter, and deserved everey bit of her win. But considering MMA's target demo's, is that a good thing from a marketing standpoint.
> 
> I mean, how many 18-year-old dudes are gonna put Christian Santos posters on their bedroom walls?


I don't have a Gina poster on my wall do you? lol As I have said if I want hottness I will read a Playboy.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

vandalian said:


> Fixeed the spoiler thing. What's the statute of limitaions on that stuff, anyway?
> 
> Cyborg was the better fighter, and deserved everey bit of her win. But considering MMA's target demo's, is that a good thing from a marketing standpoint.
> 
> I mean, how many 18-year-old dudes are gonna put Christian Santos posters on their bedroom walls?


From a marketing standpoint, it is going to make the Strikeforce PR department work harder. Before tonight, they had practically every PR piece written for them. Now, they have to actually promote good fighters. *gasp*


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## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

MMA fans regardless of age want good fights above all else. When the better fighter wins it's always better for the sport. 

Besides, who cares if Cyborg isn't as hot as Gina. Most of those 18-35 year olds have so much beer in em by the time the fight starts, it don't matter! :thumb02:


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

jeffmantx said:


> I don't have a Gina poster on my wall do you? lol As I have said if I want hottness I will read a Playboy.


I'm not 18.



Davisty69 said:


> From a marketing standpoint, it is going to make the Strikeforce PR department work harder. Before tonight, they had practically every PR piece written for them. Now, they have to actually promote good fighters. *gasp*


Hey, don't get me wrong. I believe the best fighters should always be on top. I'm just interested in how folks such as yourself think this will affect Strikeforce.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

Ok, to answer that part of your question, I think it will hurt Strikeforce in the beginning, unless they are able to properly market another female fighter. 

They put a lot of their eggs in their female MMA basket with Gina, and they are all crushed because she looked mediocre. 

If they can't find a way to replace Gina with honest talent to challenge Cyborg, they are going to take a hit.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Good point. I mean, who's Cyborg gonna fight now? Fujii is way too small at 115 pounds. Even Larosa, at 130, seems a bit overmatched.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

vandalian said:


> I'm not 18.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, don't get me wrong. I believe the best fighters should always be on top. I'm just interested in how folks such as yourself think this will affect Strikeforce.



To answer that Strikeforce will be good if they can do more than 3 shows a year they will survive. As of right now they have a solid foundation of fighters to start with. BTW womans MMA will not crumble I am interested in watching Cyborg fight again theres probably more female fighters out there hopefully.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

To be realistic, fight promoters (Elite XC and Strikeforce) have not promoted the women's division as much as they have promoted Gina Carano. And to a lesser extent, Cyborg. 

This is the same mistake Elite XC made by promoting Kimbo Slice, a specific fighter, rather than the quality of fights overall within the promotion. 

Strikeforce is back to square one. Really, can any casual fan name a single female MMA fighter aside from a) Gina, b) Cyborg or c) possibly one of Carano's opponents?

The future promotion of women's MMA is already very stale and highly predictable. Strikeforce will obviously give Gina another lower level fighter or two to build her back up for a rematch with Cyborg. Which will end in exactly the same fashion as the first fight, a la UFC's poster boy Rich Franklin's two fight run vs. Anderson. 

This all presupposes that Strikeforce remains viable for another 18-24 months. And that's a big question mark.


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## dblock (Jul 24, 2007)

Davisty69 said:


> From a marketing standpoint, it is going to make the Strikeforce PR department work harder. Before tonight, they had practically every PR piece written for them. Now, they have to actually promote good fighters. *gasp*


Are you actually saying Gina's not a good fighter? Really? Gina is a phenomenal fighter and deserving of all the praise she has gotten. Cyborg is a female Brock Lesnar. Did Randy's loss to Brock make him less of a fighter. I think Gina needs to leave Xtreme Couture for a while. Maybe go train with B.J., Dave Camirillo, or Eddie Bravo. I don't think her ground game is going to get where it needs to be there.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

dblock said:


> Are you actually saying Gina's not a good fighter? Really? Gina is a phenomenal fighter and deserving of all the praise she has gotten. Cyborg is a female Brock Lesnar. Did Randy's loss to Brock make him less of a fighter. I think Gina needs to leave Xtreme Couture for a while. Maybe go train with B.J., Dave Camirillo, or Eddie Bravo. I don't think her ground game is going to get where it needs to be there.


Why is Cyborg a female Brock Lesnar? If you think Gina is so much smaller shes not she cuts weight to make 145 lol at your comment. P.S Shes had trouble making weight several times.


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## DahStoryTella (Jul 11, 2009)

cyborg = female wanderlei in the cage

strikeforce can work with this though, she's tough as hell n looks tough as hell which can make fans not focus on her looks and be forced to respect her ability as a female fighter.


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## dblock (Jul 24, 2007)

jeffmantx said:


> Why is Cyborg a female Brock Lesnar? If you think Gina is so much smaller shes not she cuts weight to make 145 lol at your comment. P.S Shes had trouble making weight several times.


 My point is that Gina is one of the larger female fighters and she's significantly smaller than cyborg. My problem is with people saying that Gina got where she was merely because of her looks. Not to say it wasn't a factor but her incredible Muay Thai skills are also a factor.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Gina is a great fighter BUT Cyborg is a man. Female vs Male Male wins. Gina is amazing.......


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## Couchwarrior (Jul 13, 2007)

I'm a straight male and I was actually rooting for Santos. Women's MMA won't be a real sport to me as long as the looks of the competitors are discussed more than their skills. When I watch MMA I want to see technical fighting between skilled opponents. If I want to jerk off, I can just watch porn.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Couchwarrior said:


> I'm a straight male and I was actually rooting for Santos. Women's MMA won't be a real sport to me as long as the looks of the competitors are discussed more than their skills. When I watch MMA I want to see technical fighting between skilled opponents. If I want to jerk off, I can just watch porn.


You sure your straight??


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## panthony (Nov 12, 2006)

dblock said:


> My point is that Gina is one of the larger female fighters and she's significantly smaller than cyborg. My problem is with people saying that Gina got where she was merely because of her looks. Not to say it wasn't a factor but her incredible Muay Thai skills are also a factor.


She got here by 50% marketing and fighting cans and 50% skill. They made a weight class for her even though the better fighters fight at 135.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

panthony said:


> She got 50% here through marketing and fighting cans and 50% skill. They made a weight class for her even though the better fighters fight at 135


she will kick your ass homie. Gina Carrano is a great fighter who put alot of effort into what she has accomplished. Atleast she never rigged the scale like manly cyborg has.


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## panthony (Nov 12, 2006)

C'mon SideWays222 don't take it personal it's just my opinion. She's a good fighter, great now that's debatable. I've been waiting for her to fight someone decent and she finally did... I've been following womens mma for over a decade and not just EliteXC or StrikeForce. I think her lose is a good thing for StrikeForce now hopefully they'd get more top female fighters and not just fighters who happen to be female.


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## dblock (Jul 24, 2007)

Let's be serious, Cyborg could probably take Mike Brown. Gina has always had a suspect ground game, Tanya Evinger was also able to get her down rather easilly. She somehow got the submission in that fight, but take down defense and ground fighting are definiatly her weaknesses


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

vandalian said:


> Good point. I mean, who's Cyborg gonna fight now? Fujii is way too small at 115 pounds. Even Larosa, at 130, seems a bit overmatched.


Erin Toughill? Tonya Evinger?

Their weight doesn't come to mind atm, but I know they're bigger than Fuji.


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## Evil Ira (Feb 9, 2009)

To be honest, I think a win for either of them would still have been good for women's MMA.

If Gina had won, women's MMA might have gone more mainstream, rather than being relatively unknown by fans who don't watch Strikeforce (in America).

Cyborg HAS won, and I believe that is also good for MMA. It shows hard training pays off, and women's MMA isn't just for pretty faces who are wannabe ring girls (I'm not stating that Gina is one).


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Well it would have been better for strikeforce and womans mma if gina had won. 

There are two women in mma I would tune in to watch, that is gina carano and megumi fuji. cris cyborg is a mean figher, for a woman, but she does not have that factor that will make her a draw. Gina is hot and full of personality, and fuji is an artist on the ground.


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

Davisty69 said:


> From a marketing standpoint, it is going to make the Strikeforce PR department work harder. Before tonight, they had practically every PR piece written for them. Now, they have to actually promote good fighters. *gasp*


 This is what they will do if they actually gave a damn about women's fighting as anything more than a sideshow. I hope for the sake of women's MMA you are right, but I think it far more likely Strikeforce will conclude they have sucked every ounce of marketability out of Carano and the novelty of women's mma, and promptly relegate them back to the undercard wastelands for roughly another 20 years. I doubt very much you will ever hear Carano's name again from anyone but the most hardcore fans.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

panthony said:


> C'mon SideWays222 don't take it personal it's just my opinion. She's a good fighter, great now that's debatable. I've been waiting for her to fight someone decent and she finally did... I've been following womens mma for over a decade and not just EliteXC or StrikeForce. I think her lose is a good thing for StrikeForce now hopefully they'd get more top female fighters and not just fighters who happen to be female.


Jeeze
This post makes me feel like a douche bag. Yeah i guess.... what im wondering though is where are all the top Women fighters??


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Slaving away in the gym and dojo, waiting for sponsors and recognition by major promotions.


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## Godzuki (Feb 26, 2007)

In Cyborg we have a female fighter that will be popular solely because of her skills in the cage, not because she's hot. I think she's possibly the first female mixed martial artist that trains and competes at a level comparable to the men. IMO she has raised the bar of women's MMA and other female fighters will strive harder to reach that level (Gina included) and that's a good thing. Gina Carrano has done a lot for the popularity of women's MMA (and I'm sure she'll continue to do so), but I think it's important that the focus of women's MMA is on what goes on inside the cage. I think gaining the support and respect of the die-hard MMA fans with good quality fights/competitors is more conducive to longevity, than trying to appeal to casual fans with hot babes.


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## Pr0d1gy (Sep 25, 2006)

It's bad for women's MMA. It shows all the other female fighters that you will also need to use steroids in order to compete at the highest level of female MMA like Cyborg so obviously has. I'm sure some of you people are still in denial but a female cannot produce the levels of testosterone it takes to develop in the manner she has. 

The truly sad thing is Carano was clearly the better fighter, but got manhandled by a roided up she-male. Performance enhancing drugs are the pollution of professional sports, and their availability in foreign countries creates a culture where it's the weak versus the strong. I found it odd that so many people were shocked about the abuse of steroids in baseball, but I find it even more odd the level of denial people display in regard to this sport and to football. 

I wish you would all go work out for about 5 years without using any PED's and see what you would really look like, because most of these overblown, ripped fighters have cheated in some respect.


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## stevy1222 (Jun 3, 2009)

Godzuki said:


> I think she's possibly the first female mixed martial artist that trains and competes at a level comparable to the men.


Cyborg has competed with men. she was 3-1 in brazil fighting guys. i was talking to one of werdum's cornermen last night who is friends with cris and evangelista about cyborgs fight.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

I know this is not going to be a popular opinion, but I'm going to say it anyway. It is not impossible to rule out the possibility that other female MMA fighters aside from Cyborg have taken steroids. 

Based on what I've seen, I would say that both Gina Carano as well as one of her recent opponents, Julie Kedzie, have also taken steroids and/or hgh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx9vaurN-rg

It's pretty obvious that Carano has an adam's apple. It's also pretty clear she's trying to hide it. She also has a wide jawline, and a relatively deep voice. The same characteristics are also evident in Julie Kedzie: deep voice, wide jawline, and broad shoulders. 




Pr0d1gy said:


> It's bad for women's MMA. *It shows all the other female fighters that you will also need to use steroids in order to compete at the highest level of female MMA like Cyborg so obviously has. * I'm sure some of you people are still in denial but a female cannot produce the levels of testosterone it takes to develop in the manner she has.
> 
> *The truly sad thing is Carano was clearly the better fighter, but got manhandled by a roided up she-male...*


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

The people who think Gina losing wasn't a terrible thing for women's MMA are delusional. Cyborg being ontop will kill the sport for women. People don't understand how important it is for attractive top stars in womens sports for their survival. Both men and women won't watch ugly women compete in sports. Look at what women's sports have actually been relevant at any point in the television age. Tennis, gymnastics, ice skating, the end. Those are the sports with by far the best looking competitors on average. You turn on a WNBA game and look at the ******* monstrosities playing that and tell me it is about skill. 

Women's sports need 3 things to survive. The games rules have to be the same or very close to the mens equivalent. They need top stars who are hot to push. They need a network to get behind them and push their sport. If any one of those things is missing it pretty much cripples their chances.

The 5 minute rounds now are a great thing but unless Gina can come back and beat cyborg women's mma will just fade from the moderate popularity it has gained instead of growing. On another level of developement of the sport it is important to have hot figureheads also so it becomes socially acceptable for girls to do it.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

osmium said:


> The people who think Gina losing wasn't a terrible thing for women's MMA are delusional. Cyborg being ontop will kill the sport for women. People don't understand how important it is for attractive top stars in womens sports for their survival. Both men and women won't watch ugly women compete in sports. Look at what women's sports have actually been relevant at any point in the television age. Tennis, gymnastics, ice skating, the end. Those are the sports with by far the best looking competitors on average. You turn on a WNBA game and look at the ******* monstrosities playing that and tell me it is about skill.
> 
> Women's sports need 3 things to survive. The games rules have to be the same or very close to the mens equivalent. They need top stars who are hot to push. They need a network to get behind them and push their sport. If any one of those things is missing it pretty much cripples their chances.
> 
> The 5 minute rounds now are a great thing but unless Gina can come back and beat cyborg women's mma will just fade from the moderate popularity it has gained instead of growing. On another level of developement of the sport it is important to have hot figureheads also so it becomes socially acceptable for girls to do it.


Why must you bring all of your big fat ugly truths to this thread?

:thumbsup:


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Guys, I know Gina is the best looking female MMA fighter that I'm aware of, but there are others who are pretty cute.


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## stevy1222 (Jun 3, 2009)

erin toughill is pretty cute


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

stevy1222 said:


> erin toughill is pretty cute


pic??? nvm il look her up lol


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm ready for Cyborg VS Kim Couture.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

swpthleg said:


> Guys, I know Gina is the best looking female MMA fighter that I'm aware of, but there are others who are pretty cute.


yea i for one think kim is pretty cute, fuji as well.


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## stevy1222 (Jun 3, 2009)

erin toughill


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

stevy1222 said:


> erin toughill


Looked her up... she doesnt really do it for me but for a fighter shes good looking.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

J.P. said:


> I'm ready for Cyborg VS Kim Couture.


I was there for her fight with Kim Rose, she ate one vicious shot that broke her Jaw. 

Now I'm not saying that it wasn't simply a perfect shot to cause the fracture, but it did show that she has trouble with powerful strikers. 

Also, she fights at 130, so we would see a repeat of every other Cyborg fight in which she is vastly larger/stronger than her opponent.

Just my thoughts on the subject.


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## stevy1222 (Jun 3, 2009)

yeah thats what i meant, she's pretty as a fighter.

and whoever said that they need pretty girl fighters to keep the women's fighting alive is wrong. most people want to see good matches. its not all about the looks.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Davisty69 said:


> I was there for her fight with Kim Rose, she ate one vicious shot that broke her Jaw.
> 
> Now I'm not saying that it wasn't simply a perfect shot to cause the fracture, but it did show that she has trouble with powerful strikers.
> 
> ...


I will fight Kim. I'm sure I'm 130 on one of those medical scales from hell that weighs everybody 7 lbs heavier.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

I don't see how it could be good for MMA not to have the better fighter as champion.


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## mtt_c (Jun 15, 2008)

I think that Strikeforce will have to push Cyborg as a badass vs. anything else. Hype her up like a female Mike Tyson and try to get like-sized fighters for her opponents. But ultimately, female MMA might fall by the wayside just because it's a second-tiered fight sport. Why would I pay 45$ to see a female headliner when I can save it to see A.Silva or Fedor, or whoever. The WNBA is second-class compared to men's bball. Softball, same thing.

I also think that the people who were siced about Gina being in, won't stick around. Gina was the hot girl-next door who you wanted to be successful. Cyborg is a hardened, muscle freak that no one "pulls for." BTW, even before this fight, who else can be in this weightclass? How many actual female fighters are out there? not many I bet. Pretty girls wouldn't have picked up the sport b/c Gina's pretty, but they would have purchased merchandise or gotten their boyfriends to watch...


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