# Sorry Strikeforce, No Fedor Emelianenko, No Gegard Mousasi



## vaj3000 (Dec 28, 2008)

Sorry Strikeforce, No Fedor Emelianenko, No Gegard Mousasi

Royce_09_tiny by Kid Nate on Dec 8, 2009 11:17 AM EST in News Comment 39 comments
Photo by Esther Lin via All Elbows.

Photo by Esther Lin via All Elbows.

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Ariel Helwani gets the story:

From the moment news broke on Monday that Dan Henderson had signed with Strikeforce, all eyes pointed to a potential title match against light heavyweight champion Gegard Mousasi. But when reached via e-mail by FanHouse, the 24-year-old Dutch fighter said that the organization had yet to approach him about a fight against Henderson.

"That would be an exciting fight for the fans," he wrote. "For me, it's just another fight. But I understand that a win over a caliber fighter like Dan Henderson is very interesting."

Mousasi informed FanHouse that his next fight will be contested under K-1 rules at the Dynamite!! show on New Year's Eve in Japan, although his opponent has yet to be made official. The former DREAM middleweight champion is 1-0 in his kickboxing career, defeating Musashi via first-round TKO at last year's Dynamite!! show.

When asked when he expects to fight in MMA again, Mousasi noted that his contract states he can only compete on the same Strikeforce shows that feature his fellow M-1 Global fighter, Fedor Emelianenko.

"So when he fights, I will fight too. But sooner would be also be fine by me," he wrote.

Ok, so Strikeforce is now having to compete for their Light Heavyweight champ with K-1 as well as having to wait on their heavyweight champ Alistair Overeem to get kickboxing out of his system.

But the bit about Mousasi only fighting on Strikeforce shows that feature Fedor is the big news here. Holy moly! what a restrictive and baffling contract clause. I don't see how that helps anyone, unless its purpose is to tie Mousasi to M-1 Global longer by dragging out the time it takes him to complete his contract.

Link to more Bloody Elbow coverage of Dynamite!!


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## vaj3000 (Dec 28, 2008)

Where is the logic behind this? what a dickish move by M1.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

Can't wait for the 'I told you so' update from White.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

When asked when he expects to fight in MMA again, Mousasi noted that his contract states he can only compete on the same Strikeforce shows that feature his fellow M-1 Global fighter, Fedor Emelianenko.

WTF? What a strange clause, what would be the point of this?


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## vaj3000 (Dec 28, 2008)

....so if fedor gets injured or if mousassi gets injured etc and cant fight on same card then mousassi may be stuck in limbo for a looooong time.

I always understood m1's rational but this is bizarre


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I am so glad that the UFC chose not to Co-Promote. This is way too controlling and pretty ridiculous to be honest. I mean, why would they both have to fight at the same time? What does that have to do with anything at all? 

Why not promote your fighters as much as possible instead of only when they both happen to be ready at the same time?

Also here is a great question. What happens when they are both set to fight and say Fedor gets injured training, does that mean that Mousasi drops off the card as well?

M-1 is making thing way too complicated. More complicated than they need to be.


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## vaj3000 (Dec 28, 2008)

copromotion is the future! If strikeforce remains viable then i'd say its inevitable!


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

so if Fedor continues on his 2 fight a year max schedule so will Gegard?? GL strikefarce!!


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## fightpragmatist (Dec 3, 2009)

This is retarded, I don't even see the logic from M-1 in this. I love Gegard Mousasi as a fighter and I know he has previously stated he wants to fight every TWO months. So I guess unless Fedor starts fighting more, Gegard is going to be fighting a lot more in Japan then Strikeforce. With that said I'm pretty pumped to see him under K-1 rules again, his boxing is pretty good and I'd like to see him use more kicks than when he fought against Musashi.


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## DrHouse (Aug 1, 2009)

Drogo said:


> When asked when he expects to fight in MMA again, Mousasi noted that his contract states he can only compete on the same Strikeforce shows that feature his fellow M-1 Global fighter, Fedor Emelianenko.
> 
> WTF? What a strange clause, what would be the point of this?


Ain't that the co-promotion with M1 thing. Any event with Fedor on is co-promoted with M1, so I'm assuming that M1 fighters have to fight on the same night which is funny considering Mousasi fought Sobral before there was even talk about Fedor signing with SF. To be honest that clause SUCKS, what the hell? Dana was right about M1, they're such assholes.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I am so glad that the UFC chose not to Co-Promote. This is way too controlling and pretty ridiculous to be honest. I mean, why would they both have to fight at the same time? What does that have to do with anything at all?


Im glad M1 didnt co-promote, they have got nothing to offer Fedor either in terms of viewership or competition. The UFC has a very weak HW, their best is Nog which Fedor has beaten to a pulp three times, their champion has a garbage 4-1 record, and their ex champion is already 46 years old and should be in a nursing home.

*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohdJ2KvczZ0*

Three main points explained by Fedor were:

1)He can't quit the UFC until he looses.

2)His salary would be totally controlled by the UFC and can be easily cut to any value if UFC decides his performance was "poor" without any strict criteria what "poor" really mean. By other words UFC﻿ would pay him so few as they want refering to that point of contract.

3)He can fight only in the UFC and has no right to fight anywhere else including amateur﻿ ***** competitions. That means that Fedor will have to wait for his next fight as so long as Dana wants, no matter how long it takes.



DrHouse said:


> Ain't that the co-promotion with M1 thing. Any event with Fedor on is co-promoted with M1, so I'm assuming that M1 fighters have to fight on the same night which is funny considering Mousasi fought Sobral before there was even talk about Fedor signing with SF. To be honest that clause SUCKS, what the hell? Dana was right about M1, they're such assholes.


Im assuming that Gegard can fight on other promotions to fill in the gaps. As for the M1-Strikeforce tie ups, well its great that Gegard and Fedor fight together at least each show has several top class fighters. Its obvious that Strikeforce/M1 are after *QUALITY*......not just QUANTITY as with the UFC.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Why would Mousasi agree to this? This is stupid, so much for being your own man.


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## DrHouse (Aug 1, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> Im assuming that Gegard can fight on other promotions to fill in the gaps. As for the M1-Strikeforce tie ups, well its great that Gegard and Fedor fight together at least each show has several top class fighters. Its obvious that Strikeforce/M1 are after *QUALITY*......not just QUANTITY as with the UFC.


Yeah very true, at least we'll get to see him in K1 action at the Dynamite card.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Of course because M-1 would want Strikeforce to co-promote and Fedor is not worth the hassle never mind Mousasi, M-1 are the worst thing to happen to MMA in years.



monaroCountry said:


> Im glad M1 didnt co-promote, they have got nothing to offer Fedor either in terms of viewership or competition. The UFC has a very weak HW, their best is Nog which Fedor has beaten to a pulp three times, their champion has a garbage 4-1 record, and their ex champion is already 46 years old and should be in a nursing home.
> 
> *
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohdJ2KvczZ0*
> ...


Lets ignore the fact that Fedor was offered the largest _*guaranteed*_ contract in MMA history (meaning his performance was meaningless) and that the UFC was willing to allow Fedor to compete in ***** that has been said over a thousand times why do people still argue that it is an issue, M-1 is the issue just like this stupid crap with Mousasi having to be on the same card as Fedor.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Of course because M-1 would want Strikeforce to co-promote and Fedor is not worth the hassle never mind Mousasi, M-1 are the worst thing to happen to MMA in years.
> 
> 
> 
> Lets ignore the fact that Fedor was offered the largest _*guaranteed*_ contract in MMA history (meaning his performance was meaningless) and that the UFC was willing to allow Fedor to compete in ***** that has been said over a thousand times why do people still argue that it is an issue, M-1 is the issue just like this stupid crap with Mousasi having to be on the same card as Fedor.




Wow, M-1 is the worst thing to happen to MMA in years? Yeah, Mousasi vs Soko sucked, Rogers vs Fedor was two cans, the upcoming Fedor vs Barnett is for the birds, the Fedor exhibition matches were garbage... :confused05:

And Fedor was guaranteed the largest contract in MMA history? Where did you read that, foxnews? 

In an interview Fedor stated that if UFC's offer was anywhere near the 6-fight 30 million dollar offer they would have signed it instantly - that rumor was debunked completely.



> ... if I had performed in a way that they didn't like or I had lost, they could end the contract that day or have my purse decreased based on a poor peformance."


The contract was also indefinite if Fedor won the title - Fedor would not legally be allowed to leave the UFC undefeated.


It was a stupid contract, blown up and hyped by the media, disrespectfully proposed by the master of disrespect, and Fedor didn't need it. IMO Rogers and Overeem have the best stylistic chance of beating Fedor anyway so who cares.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

thank god for dana White. no pun intended


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> Wow, M-1 is the worst thing to happen to MMA in years? Yeah, Mousasi vs Soko sucked, Rogers vs Fedor was two cans, the upcoming Fedor vs Barnett is for the birds, the Fedor exhibition matches were garbage... :confused05:


 M-1 global and blah blah blah present, Co-promotion limits where and when Fedor and obviously Mousasi can compete so don't act like the UFC is the devil, you do realize if Fedor blew his knee out and had to get surgery Mousasi could be sidelined by this M-1 bullshit for a year or more?


> And Fedor was guaranteed the largest contract in MMA history? Where did you read that, foxnews?
> 
> In an interview Fedor stated that if UFC's offer was anywhere near the 6-fight 30 million dollar offer they would have signed it instantly - that rumor was debunked completely.


 It was widely reported as by far the largest contract in UFC history, hmm pretty sure that would top anybody elses contract anywhere, do you realize the kind of money Chuck Liddell was bringing in?




> The contract was also indefinite if Fedor won the title - Fedor would not legally be allowed to leave the UFC undefeated.


 This is a misconception because the UFC has a champions clause, pretty simple solution, you can fight for the UFC without fighting for the title, people refuse fights all the time, may hurt your bargaining power for your net contract but they don't make your fight for the title.



> It was a stupid contract, blown up and hyped by the media, disrespectfully proposed by the master of disrespect, and Fedor didn't need it. IMO Rogers and Overeem have the best stylistic chance of beating Fedor anyway so who cares.


Says who? Seeing as Fedor never even met with the UFC (only M-1 did) I find anything he has to say on the topic useless information seeing as M-1 blatantly lied to Mousasi about a low ball UFC offer (Joe Silva said no contract was *ever* offered to Mousasi due to his involvement with the EA MMA game). So basically since its already been exposed that M-1 blatably lies to the fighters they represent what makes you so sure Fedor even knows what the offer actually was?

EDIT: I gotta continue my rant cause the whole pay issue bugs me especially because people use numbers like Arlovski's huge Affliction pay day to make there case but the problem is Affliction was the sponsorship and the promoter wrapped into one, and on top of that while the main even guys in a UFC PPV get a cut of the buys this isn't something that any agent worth his salt is gonna accept from an upstart MMA company so instead of a PPV% it made more sense to demand a set rate that much higher instead, if Afflcition did 900,000 it would have worked out way better for them but since they did a hundred and some thousand Arlvoski laughed his ass to the bank and Afflicition closed its doors.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Toxic said:


> M-1 global and blah blah blah present, Co-promotion limits where and when Fedor and obviously Mousasi can compete so don't act like the UFC is the devil, you do realize if Fedor blew his knee out and had to get surgery Mousasi could be sidelined by this M-1 bullshit for a year or more?


I dont think you understand what everyone has been saying here. Gegard cant fight in Strikeforce without Fedor as per his contract. HOWEVER he is still able to fight for other tournaments and co-promote with other organisations.

This is far better than the UFC where they are only ALLOWED to fight with other UFC fighters. 



> It was widely reported as by far the largest contract in UFC history, hmm pretty sure that would top anybody elses contract anywhere, do you realize the kind of money Chuck Liddell was bringing in?


Again the sum has been proven false. Fedor and his management has already debunked this rediculous rumour, there is even a video interview of this.




> This is a misconception because the UFC has a champions clause, pretty simple solution, you can fight for the UFC without fighting for the title, people refuse fights all the time, may hurt your bargaining power for your net contract but they don't make your fight for the title.


Now this is just rediculous. Imagine Fedor beating everyone in the division, yet still not a legitimate belt champion? What sort of paper belt do the UFC have? No wonder Henderson left.



> Says who? Seeing as Fedor never even met with the UFC (only M-1 did) I find anything he has to say on the topic useless information seeing as M-1 blatantly lied to Mousasi about a low ball UFC offer (Joe Silva said no contract was *ever* offered to Mousasi due to his involvement with the EA MMA game).
> 
> 
> > Fedor hired a management team to do these sort of things, why should Fedor go to America? Why shouldnt Dana go to Russia for once?
> ...


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

monaroCountry said:


> I dont think you understand what everyone has been saying here. Gegard cant fight in Strikeforce without Fedor as per his contract. HOWEVER he is still able to fight for other tournaments and co-promote with other organisations.
> 
> This is far better than the UFC where they are only ALLOWED to fight with other UFC fighters.


And you see nothing wrong with Mousasi's contract? 
I'm pretty sure every single fighter on the UFC's roster is independant of each others though,.




> Again the sum has been proven false. Fedor and his management has already debunked this rediculous rumour, there is even a video interview of this.


 Its been debunked by people who flat out lie to to there own clients, Dana has said it was the largest contract ever offered by the UFC and Im pretty confident that much is true even if the exact number is exagerated.





> Now this is just rediculous. Imagine Fedor beating everyone in the division, yet still not a legitimate belt champion? What sort of paper belt do the UFC have? No wonder Henderson left.


 That's Fedor's problem, the championship clause only makes sense, are you forgetting what BJ did?

[


> Fedor hired a management team to do these sort of things, why should Fedor go to America? Why shouldnt Dana go to Russia for once?


 What kind of stupid ass crap is this? Seriously when was the last time an employer came to your house for a job interview? How much special treatment do you think Fedor deserve? Where does Dana draw the line then does he fly out to see BJ Penn? How about Deigo Sanchez? Gray Maynard? Maybe Dana should just fully dedicate himself to flying to fighters homes to meet them instead of you know running the UFC.




> Again see the Dan Henderson issue and how Dana/UFC lied to him about a title shot. Dana and the UFC are not very honest and frankly I find Fedor/M1 far more honest.


 It was Anderson Silva' managers crying that messed that up and made Dana change his mind, its not really lying in the same manner if it was true at the time it was said. Is Brett Rogers a liar because he said he was gonna knock Fedor out? 




> UFC is really only relevant in America, in Russia its close to non existant. Other fighters are desperate and not in the same situation as Fedor. Fedor owns 20% of M1 and has the best record as well as being the most respected fighter in MMA (apart from noobs).


20% of M-1 without Fedor's contract is worth about fifty three cents, Fedor could make way more money without M-1 riding his coat tails its got nothing to do with Fedor being desperate it has to do with him being contractually obligated to a bunch of swindlers.


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## fightpragmatist (Dec 3, 2009)

Meh, I don't really believe what M-1 says about it nor do I really believe much of anything Dana says, so it's probably some where in the middle. Sorry if I didn't quote anything I didn't get that memo .


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Toxic said:


> And you see nothing wrong with Mousasi's contract?
> I'm pretty sure every single fighter on the UFC's roster is independant of each others though,.


The Moussasi contract isnt ideal but I can understand why Strikeforce and M1 wanted it this way. Having Fedor and Gegard on one night ensures that the viewers and those who paid for their tickets are getting the best show and are seeing a packed card with top talents. Again its quality not quantity.

I do however have a huge issue with the UFC contract which is VERY much one sided and locks a fighter in with ONE PROMOTIONAL COMPANY. As a fighter you want to fight the best from around the world. There are many quality fighters not with the UFC. 




> Its been debunked by people who flat out lie to to there own clients, Dana has said it was the largest contract ever offered by the UFC and Im pretty confident that much is true even if the exact number is exagerated.


Well Fedor seems to be an honest guy who has a good working relationship with Vadim. From what ive seen, it seems to be Dana White who lies, he has back tracked, gotten cought out and fallen flat on his face so many times. 




> That's Fedor's problem, the championship clause only makes sense, are you forgetting what BJ did?


That is indeed one of the problems faced by Fedor that ultimately halted the contract from being signed. In a normal sport the best should be competing for a medal, trophy, belt, I have never heard of a championship clause from any other sport. The problem is that the UFC is run more like the WWE and not as a proper sport.



> What kind of stupid ass crap is this? Seriously when was the last time an employer came to your house for a job interview? How much special treatment do you think Fedor deserve?


Its called being head hunted and happens quite regularly. This happened to me once and was enough to sway me to take up the offered position.

This obviously does not happen to everyone. People who get this special treatment are normally those at the top of their field, like Fedor. Talents like these are very hard to come by, their talents sought by many organisations. Head hunting top talents is all part of properly running a company.



> 20% of M-1 without Fedor's contract is worth about fifty three cents, Fedor could make way more money without M-1 riding his coat tails its got nothing to do with Fedor being desperate it has to do with him being contractually obligated to a bunch of swindlers.


Oh hi there Dana. Fifty cents? wow does this mean that without Fedor I could buy out M1 with my pocket change? Hahahahaahahh your too funny Dana.

Talking about swindled, this is how Dan Henderson felt after being lied to by Dana. The UFC are a bunch of crooks with gambling and the mafia being the back bone of their organisation.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Wow Toxic, you're impossible to argue with that huge bias hanging out around you. C'mon, M1 is a huge international promotion - everytime I hear "fedor is the only person M1 has" I just roll my eyes and disengage from the argument.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

monaroCountry said:


> The Moussasi contract isnt ideal but I can understand why Strikeforce and M1 wanted it this way. Having Fedor and Gegard on one night ensures that the viewers and those who paid for their tickets are getting the best show and are seeing a packed card with top talents. Again its quality not quantity.


The Mousasi contract is complete bullshit, his problem is that he is signed by M-1 meaning for him to compete Strikeforce has to co-promote the event with M-1, this makes no sense for somebody like Mousasi so Strikeforce is most likely only gonna use him on cards when Fedor fights since they already have to co-promote for Fedor.


> I do however have a huge issue with the UFC contract which is VERY much one sided and locks a fighter in with ONE PROMOTIONAL COMPANY. As a fighter you want to fight the best from around the world. There are many quality fighters not with the UFC.


 And since the UFC spends so much money marketing there fighters it makes 0 sense for them to allow them to put that investment at risk fighting elsewhere.





> Well Fedor seems to be an honest guy who has a good working relationship with Vadim. From what ive seen, it seems to be Dana White who lies, he has back tracked, gotten cought out and fallen flat on his face so many times.


Pretty easy to pick on what Dana says considering he gets a thousand times as much time speaking to the media.





> That is indeed one of the problems faced by Fedor that ultimately halted the contract from being signed. In a normal sport the best should be competing for a medal, trophy, belt, I have never heard of a championship clause from any other sport. The problem is that the UFC is run more like the WWE and not as a proper sport.


 There is no comparing the championship clause to any other sport because the teams will always still be there, the WWE wouldn't need a championship clause the comparison is only brought up to try and insult the concept because the WWE could just have there champions drop the belt, not an option in a legitimate sport.







> Oh hi there Dana. Fifty cents? wow does this mean that without Fedor I could buy out M1 with my pocket change? Hahahahaahahh your too funny Dana.
> 
> Talking about swindled, this is how Dan Henderson felt after being lied to by Dana. The UFC are a bunch of crooks with gambling and the mafia being the back bone of their organisation.


 What is M-1 worth without all the co-promoting they use Fedor to demand, practically nothing, the company has zero noteriety and is basically worthless. M-1 is Fedor and a bunch of guys clinging to his coat tails, nothing more.

Dan never got swindled by the UFC, he wanted a shit pile of money the UFC didn't think he was worth it, there was nothing back handed about it, Dana said it numerous times when Dan was a free agent, he wanted more money than he was worth and he couldn't draw enough PPV buys to make the investment an intelligent business decision.



khoveraki said:


> Wow Toxic, you're impossible to argue with that huge bias hanging out around you. C'mon, M1 is a huge international promotion - everytime I hear "fedor is the only person M1 has" I just roll my eyes and disengage from the argument.


Huge international promotion, have you watched an M-1 card? Hell Breakthrough which was supposed to be there elite show was crap with a bunch of guys who I wouldn't pay to watch at the local show and a main event of the most overhyped beginer in MMA King Mo vs the never was that great to begin with past his prime Mark Kerr, there are over a dozen organizations in MMA who are miles ahead of your "international promotion".


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

> The Mousasi contract is complete bullshit, his problem is that he is signed by M-1 meaning for him to compete Strikeforce has to co-promote the event with M-1, this makes no sense for somebody like Mousasi so Strikeforce is most likely only gonna use him on cards when Fedor fights since they already have to co-promote for Fedor.


This is what normally happens in a properly ran promotion. Gegard is managed by M1-Global who in turn makes deals with other promotional companies to showcase a bout. Both agree to a cut percentage and what they are responsible for. This way Gegard can fight in K1, for Strikeforce or for many other promotions (apart from UFC). On the other hand if Gegard ever decides to fight for the UFC then he would not be able to fight against fighters from other promotions.



> And since the UFC spends so much money marketing there fighters it makes 0 sense for them to allow them to put that investment at risk fighting elsewhere.


Letting their fighters fight international talent is good for MMA fans and also good for the back pocket. What the UFC is doing is protecting its fighters from worthwhile challenges.



> Pretty easy to pick on what Dana says considering he gets a thousand times as much time speaking to the media.


That’s because he lies so much and he bags so many people.



> There is no comparing the championship clause to any other sport because the teams will always still be there, the WWE wouldn't need a championship clause the comparison is only brought up to try and insult the concept because the WWE could just have there champions drop the belt, not an option in a legitimate sport.


Lets compare it to boxing. Getting that belt means as much for many fighters as the money. Why shouldn’t Fedor get the reward? Why must Dana put so many unfair restrictions?



> What is M-1 worth without all the co-promoting they use Fedor to demand, practically nothing, the company has zero noteriety and is basically worthless. M-1 is Fedor and a bunch of guys clinging to his coat tails, nothing more.
> 
> Dan never got swindled by the UFC, he wanted a shit pile of money the UFC didn't think he was worth it, there was nothing back handed about it, Dana said it numerous times when Dan was a free agent, he wanted more money than he was worth and he couldn't draw enough PPV buys to make the investment an intelligent business decision.


M1 has a huge footprint all over the world. Open your eyes and look past your own borders, there is a huge world outside America. UFCs position in Russia would be reversed i.e. M1 would be the dominant company while UFC would be the no name upstart. Your argument is like saying the UFC would be nothing without Brock and Kimbo.

According to Dan money was only a small cause. One of the main cause he kept going on about was that he was promised a fight, that fight went to someone undeserving.



> http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles...ikeforce-21378
> 
> Former UFC middleweight Dan Henderson spoke with Sherdog.com just minutes after the announcement that he’d jumped promotions and signed a four-fight, 16-month deal with rival organization Strikeforce. Henderson, who had co-headlined four of his last five appearances in the UFC, negotiated with both promotions until last Friday.
> 
> ...





> Huge international promotion, have you watched an M-1 card? Hell Breakthrough which was supposed to be there elite show was crap with a bunch of guys who I wouldn't pay to watch at the local show and a main event of the most overhyped beginer in MMA King Mo vs the never was that great to begin with past his prime Mark Kerr, there are over a dozen organizations in MMA who are miles ahead of your "international promotion".




Compare the M1-Challenge to The Ultimate Fighter (especially season 10). There are allot better fighter being shown on M1-Challenge than the celeb come fighter in TUF.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

monaroCountry said:


> This is what normally happens in a properly ran promotion. Gegard is managed by M1-Global who in turn makes deals with other promotional companies to showcase a bout. Both agree to a cut percentage and what they are responsible for. This way Gegard can fight in K1, for Strikeforce or for many other promotions (apart from UFC). On the other hand if Gegard ever decides to fight for the UFC then he would not be able to fight against fighters from other promotions.


 But nobody wants to co-promote with M-1 so he is hardly ever gonna get to fight anywhere unless Fedor is fighting. Its way worse cause if Fedor gets injured no major MMA company is copromoting to get Mousasi.




> Letting their fighters fight international talent is good for MMA fans and also good for the back pocket. What the UFC is doing is protecting its fighters from worthwhile challenges.


 Quit looking at it like a fan boy and look at it like a buisiness, noob money is just as good as fan boy money if you don't believe Dana just ask the guys who ran Affliction.



> That’s because he lies so much and he bags so many people.


 Can you even try and be objective for 30 seconds?




> Lets compare it to boxing. Getting that belt means as much for many fighters as the money. Why shouldn’t Fedor get the reward? Why must Dana put so many unfair restrictions?


 Have you not got the memo boxing is a mess and there isn't any organization you could compare to the UFC, that is exactly the shit show that the UFC is trying to avoid.




> M1 has a huge footprint all over the world. Open your eyes and look past your own borders, there is a huge world outside America. UFCs position in Russia would be reversed i.e. M1 would be the dominant company while UFC would be the no name upstart. Your argument is like saying the UFC would be nothing without Brock and Kimbo.


 Get off it, M-1 is a small fish and may be the only one in the pond over there but that does not make them the big fish. They are a joke with low level talent to even compare them to the UFC which has most of the best fighters in the world is so blatantly absurd that its not even funny.



> According to Dan money was only a small cause. One of the main cause he kept going on about was that he was promised a fight, that fight went to someone undeserving.


 Funny before Dan signed to Strikeforce he kept saying he didn't care because Marquardt and Silva were gonna be his next two fights regardless.





> Compare the M1-Challenge to The Ultimate Fighter (especially season 10). There are allot better fighter being shown on M1-Challenge than the celeb come fighter in TUF.


No, there really isn't, those cans couldnt even win TUF, every M-1 show I have seen was filled with out of shape bums.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Toxic said:


> But nobody wants to co-promote with M-1 so he is hardly ever gonna get to fight anywhere unless Fedor is fighting. Its way worse cause if Fedor gets injured no major MMA company is copromoting to get Mousasi.


Your talking garbage again and just sprouting out pure speculation which is quite wrong by the way. Most promotional companies have been able to co promote and work with M1 both in the past and recently quite well. The only exception to this rule is UFC.

For Gegard, apart from Strikeforce he has also fought on Fighting and Entertainment Group, Bodog, Pride Fighting Championships and many other. 




> Quit looking at it like a fan boy and look at it like a buisiness, noob money is just as good as fan boy money if you don't believe Dana just ask the guys who ran Affliction.


Well you might like the WWE model of the UFC but thats you. If you only want American fighters fight the best in America then thats also just you. But please dont consider UFC champions to be world champs if they wont even fight the best from around the world. 



> Can you even try and be objective for 30 seconds?


Coming from you, thats a bit rich dont you think?




> Have you not got the memo boxing is a mess and there isn't any organization you could compare to the UFC, that is exactly the shit show that the UFC is trying to avoid.


From what ive noticed boxing is still extreemly popular and profitable, far more profitable than MMA. Boxing isnt as popular in America because more and more world champions come from places outside America. 




> Get off it, M-1 is a small fish and may be the only one in the pond over there but that does not make them the big fish. They are a joke with low level talent to even compare them to the UFC which has most of the best fighters in the world is so blatantly absurd that its not even funny.


Hahahahh the fact is M1 is a big fish in their own region, just like the UFC. The also have two of the best talents unlike the UFC with its 4-1 paper champion and their 46 year old hall of famer grandpa.



> Funny before Dan signed to Strikeforce he kept saying he didn't care because Marquardt and Silva were gonna be his next two fights regardless.


Obviously Dan was very bitter being unfairly overlooked for another fighter fancied by Dana. how many times am I going to prove you wrong? Your obvuiously a noob in MMA and have not even done your background research. 




> No, there really isn't, those cans couldnt even win TUF, every M-1 show I have seen was filled with out of shape bums.


Again I disagree, all of these M1 challenge fighters are better skilled and fitter than the TUF challengers. The Russian Legion fighters are especially good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRPZJA92s2Y

Most of the TUF fighters have vertually no skills, especially with their ground game and quite a few of them have just garbage cardio. Its like Kimbo and his opponent at the end of the fight, so exhausted that both were throwing pillow punches.


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## tlilly (Nov 13, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> 2)His salary would be totally controlled by the UFC and can be easily cut to any value if UFC decides his performance was "poor" without any strict criteria what "poor" really mean. By other words UFC﻿ would pay him so few as they want refering to that point of contract.
> 
> 3)He can fight only in the UFC and has no right to fight anywhere else including amateur﻿ ***** competitions. That means that Fedor will have to wait for his next fight as so long as Dana wants, no matter how long it takes.


This is sorta similar to nfl's non guarantee contracts to me... or am i missing something?

I think mousasi being tied to fedor isn't as bad as it sounds. Technically, Mousasi is under the M1 banner, so it is only fitting that he can only fight in SF if M1 is co-promoting. From what I get from Mousasi's quote this is exactly the point, but it seems that M1 will only co-promote with SF if fedor is fighting hence Mousasi is tied in with Fedor. If this is true (only my own speculations) it seems very weird and not fair for Mousasi in that why isn't M1 willing to co-promote with SF that just features Mousasi alone? 

I think one debate you guys were arguing is comparing this with the UFC banner where they force UFC fighters to only fight amongst their rosters. This imo is equally restricting as the M1 rules. HOWEVER.... the difference to me is UFC has a lot of talent and there is rarely a shortage of good fights for fighters (with the exception of gsp and silva clearing their divisions). Even with the Dan Henderson situation, although he didn't get the title shot he wanted, he was still offered to fight a very game opponent in nate marquardt. In Mousasi's case, he wasn't really offered anyone but was pretty much told to wait for Fedor. I wouldn't mind M1's policy as much if it allowed Mousasi to fight more often instead of fighting the african assassin for a non-title bout or k1.


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## Bzaal (Sep 4, 2009)

Hey, Fedor, I didn't know you speak english.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

tlilly said:


> This is sorta similar to nfl's non guarantee contracts to me... or am i missing something?


I dont really know NFL but to me it seems to be a very one sided contract. Fedor was right in not taking up the offer.



> I think mousasi being tied to fedor isn't as bad as it sounds. Technically, Mousasi is under the M1 banner, so it is only fitting that he can only fight in SF if M1 is co-promoting. From what I get from Mousasi's quote this is exactly the point, but it seems that M1 will only co-promote with SF if fedor is fighting hence Mousasi is tied in with Fedor. If this is true (only my own speculations) it seems very weird and not fair for Mousasi in that why isn't M1 willing to co-promote with SF that just features Mousasi alone?


Its more about the quality of the cards and also co promoting percentages. With two quality fighters M1 would have been in a better position to get a better bargain and better pay for both fighters. You know what they say about strength in numbers. 



> I think one debate you guys were arguing is comparing this with the UFC banner where they force UFC fighters to only fight amongst their rosters. This imo is equally restricting as the M1 rules. HOWEVER.... the difference to me is UFC has a lot of talent and there is rarely a shortage of good fights for fighters (with the exception of gsp and silva clearing their divisions). Even with the Dan Henderson situation, although he didn't get the title shot he wanted, he was still offered to fight a very game opponent in nate marquardt. In Mousasi's case, he wasn't really offered anyone but was pretty much told to wait for Fedor. I wouldn't mind M1's policy as much if it allowed Mousasi to fight more often instead of fighting the african assassin for a non-title bout or k1.


I still think that Gegard had a far better contract and can pursue other organisations around the world. UFC fighters for me are more well known in America but not necessarily better fighters. The UFC depth doesnt seem to be all that flash either. You dont really have a flash roster if your champion is 4-1 and another of your champion is 46 years old.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

Thats fucked.. Thats making sf host 2 champ bouts on one card.. Cool and all but what about the rest of the time.. Gegard is a draw of his own now.. Maybe this is a the reasoning behind them not headlining and making a big deal about there belts.. They have headlining bouts that arent champ bouts on the same card.. wtf.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

F*** you M-1 Global. F*** you.:angry07:


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## tlilly (Nov 13, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> I dont really know NFL but to me it seems to be a very one sided contract. Fedor was right in not taking up the offer.


to put it in a simple way, in NFL, you negotiate a contract that is non-guaranteed. This contract can have a signing bonus or incentive based options. However, the teams have the right to terminate the contract at any time and not payout the rest of the contract if they wanted to. Say, you signed 10 mil per year contract for 10 years, the team can drop you at any time if they think you aren't living up to their "standards" and drop you and not pay you the rest of the money.




monaroCountry said:


> I still think that Gegard had a far better contract and can pursue other organisations around the world. UFC fighters for me are more well known in America but not necessarily better fighters. The UFC depth doesnt seem to be all that flash either. You dont really have a flash roster if your champion is 4-1 and another of your champion is 46 years old.


i can't see any organizations that have better depth than the ufc in WW, MW and LHW. Its even tough to argue that for lw and hw. Without fedor, strikeforce has a hw division that is 4 deep with no prospects. you can argue about dream's lw division but I think ufc's lw's are better. Also the key thing is UFC has proven over the years to be able to continually build up prospects so that there are always interesting fights. Guys like silva and gsp obviously cause exceptions. But even in Silva's case, UFC can give him the option to move up and challenge other weight classes just like shields.

Despite what you believe about brock, I think their is no denying that he has as much potential as anyone in the sports of mma especially in the hw division. I think his 4-1 record is also misleading because i can't remember the last person with a 4-1 record that faced a 3 time hw and 2 time lw champ and a former hw champ and interim champ twice. But I think even the brock haters can agree that brock is more of an intriguing fight than any hw that sf has to offer.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

monaroCountry said:


> I dont really know NFL but to me it seems to be a very one sided contract. Fedor was right in not taking up the offer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Yes, I know Fedor is super man and Lesnar sucks cause he is 4-1, yeah cause you know most people would do so well in there second MMA fight against Frank Mir, I mean obviously he isn't as stellar as the no name guy who was 0-1 that Fedor fought in his second MMA fight. Like Lesnar hate, him cling to Fedor's nuts but the fact Lesnar is 4-1 does not discredit him, he beat one of the biggest legends in the sport and a former world title holder and until somebody knocks him off his record leaves absolulty nothing to be ashamed about.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

This is how the UFC treats its fighters. Talk about mafia strong arm tactic, what a bunch of crooks.







> From Henderson's interview with MMAWeekly.com:
> 
> _*MMAWeekly:* Did you ask for the rights to your image and likeness, or any special deal with the UFC? I’m wondering if your experience was anything like your old teammate, Randy Couture, who went back and forth with them over the same thing.
> *
> Henderson: *I had given up certain rights. Obviously, I was in the video game, and *I haven’t made a dime from it,* the first contract I signed back with them. That was for non-exclusive for the video game, and a lot of press has touched on that subject with them. *They definitely were interested in exclusive deals, especially for the video game*, and for me, that should be a whole other deal. When I’m not getting paid for it, it doesn’t make me all that excited to do it. _





> *
> Refuse To Give Up Lifetime Video Game Rights? The UFC Cuts You. Ask Jon Fitch.*
> 
> 
> ...


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Like Lesnar hate, him cling to Fedor's nuts but the fact Lesnar is 4-1 does not discredit him, he beat one of the biggest legends in the sport and a former world title holder and until somebody knocks him off his record leaves absolulty nothing to be ashamed about.


A 46 year old legend that for some reason has over 1/3 of his fights ending up in losses, this isnt something to brag about.





> to put it in a simple way, in NFL, you negotiate a contract that is non-guaranteed. This contract can have a signing bonus or incentive based options. However, the teams have the right to terminate the contract at any time and not payout the rest of the contract if they wanted to.


There is nothing wrong with a bit of security.

Again for me this seems to be a very one sided deal. Im sure that the best P4P athlete in MMA deserves better. The contract is basically an insult to Fedor.



> i can't see any organizations that have better depth than the ufc in WW, MW and LHW. Its even tough to argue that for lw and hw. Without fedor, strikeforce has a hw division that is 4 deep with no prospects. you can argue about dream's lw division but I think ufc's lw's are better.


Again your using popularity = depth (and only popular in America). I would argue that the world MMA scene have far better and larger pool of fighters than just UFC. Gegard sticking with M1 enables him to fight fighters from other organisation and even other sports i.e. K1 and not limit himself to the mostly American fighters in UFCs contract.



> Also the key thing is UFC has proven over the years to be able to continually build up prospects so that there are always interesting fights.


The last couple fights in the UFC was a non event and a snore fest.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> This is how the UFC treats its fighters. Talk about mafia strong arm tactic, what a bunch of crooks.


I want a source for the Jon Fitch quote.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

monaroCountry said:


> A 46 year old legend that for some reason has over 1/3 of his fights ending up in losses, this isnt something to brag about.


 Couture has continuously fought the best for over 10 years the fact that your even attempting to discredit his legacy in the sport makes me think your gonna blindly hate everything UFC no matter how ridiculous you look doing it. That was Lesnar's 4th ever MMA fight, do you know who Fedor fought in his 4th fight? Ricardo Arona,now before you start believing that was impressive you need to realize it was only Arona's 3rd fight and its pretty easy to make an argument Arona won that fight.



> Again your using popularity = depth (and only popular in America). I would argue that the world MMA scene have far better and larger pool of fighters than just UFC. Gegard sticking with M1 enables him to fight fighters from other organisation and even other sports i.e. K1 and not limit himself to the mostly American fighters in UFCs contract.


 Great Mousasi can figtht any LHW in the world, which leaves, uhm Dan Henderson? I mean really the top LHW's are ALL in the UFC the division is really baren outside the UFC, hell they have even signed Little Nog who was really one of the last top LHW's outside the UFC. The only LHW's worth a shit outside the UFC are Mousasi, Hendo and arguable Babalu, outside that its the emptiest non-UFC division in MMA, I will flat out say it Mousasi cannot build any kind of lasting legacy in the sport at LHW unless he goes to the UFC, they own all the top guys and beating B-rate fighters like Sokky will never make him the man.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

UrbanBounca said:


> I want a source for the Jon Fitch quote.


Happy?



> http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=7630&zoneid=1
> 
> - JON FITCH EXCLUSIVE: "I'M STILL KIND OF IN SHOCK"
> 
> ...


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Wow. The UFC just lost one of their great WW fighters over a stupid video game. :confused03:

BTW...that deserves its own thread. Post it!


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Wow, it's like November 2008 all over in here.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Stokes said:


> Wow. The UFC just lost one of their great WW fighters over a stupid video game. :confused03:
> 
> BTW...that deserves its own thread. Post it!


Thats old, he is still in the UFC.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

joshua7789 said:


> Thats old, he is still in the UFC.


Oh okay, sorry I'm not really "in the loop" when it comes to stuff like this. Lately I have been too busy bad mouthing Kimbo in all the nuthugging threads. Whoops. :confused05:


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Couture has continuously fought the best for over 10 years the fact that your even attempting to discredit his legacy in the sport makes me think your gonna blindly hate everything UFC no matter how ridiculous you look doing it. That was Lesnar's 4th ever MMA fight, do you know who Fedor fought in his 4th fight? Ricardo Arona,now before you start believing that was impressive you need to realize it was only Arona's 3rd fight and its pretty easy to make an argument Arona won that fight.


Lets do a quick breakdown of Randy's fight record by who he fought and whether he lost to those fighters. Its from his first fight to his most recent, then the win-loss of those fighters and finally whether Randy lost to those fighters (L). Going from the below info I would neither think that Randy fought the best fighters or that he is anything remotely above ordinary (judging from his win-loss ratio of 17 wins and 10 losses).



*Randy Couture*

- Tony Halme (13-6)
- Steven Graham (2-1)
- Vitor Belfort (19-8)
- Maurice Smith (12-13)
- Enson Inoue (11-8) - L
- Mikhail Illoukhine (27-11) - L
- Jeremy Horn (83-19)
- Ryushi Yanagisawa (24-25)
- Kevin Randleman (17-14)
- Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (25-18)
- Valentijn Overeem (26-24) - L
- Pedro Rizzo (17-9)
- Josh Barnett (24-5) - L
- Ricco Rodriguez (37-11) - L
- Chuck Liddell (21-7) - L
- Tito Ortiz (15-7)
- Mike Van Arsdale (8-5)
- Tim Sylvia (5-6)
- Gabriel Gonzaga (11-4)
- Brock Lesnar (4-1) - L
- Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (32-5) - L
- Brandon Vera (11-4)





> makes me think your gonna blindly hate everything UFC no matter how ridiculous you look doing it. That was Lesnar's 4th ever MMA fight, do you know who Fedor fought in his 4th fight? Ricardo Arona,now before you start believing that was impressive you need to realize it was only Arona's 3rd fight and its pretty easy to make an argument Arona won that fight.


No the UFC does have some great fighters but not that many exceptional fighters. There also have some great fighters that are not as well know, which is very unfortunate IMO.

Now Fedor fought Ricardo Arona who has 14 wins and 5 losses. Ricardo has also won against credible opponents and no Fedor won that fight as per the fight record. There is no ifs and buts in this.




> Great Mousasi can figtht any LHW in the world, which leaves, uhm Dan Henderson? I mean really the top LHW's are ALL in the UFC the division is really baren outside the UFC, hell they have even signed Little Nog who was really one of the last top LHW's outside the UFC. The only LHW's worth a shit outside the UFC are Mousasi, Hendo and arguable Babalu, outside that its the emptiest non-UFC division in MMA, I will flat out say it Mousasi cannot build any kind of lasting legacy in the sport at LHW unless he goes to the UFC, they own all the top guys and beating B-rate fighters like Sokky will never make him the man.


I suggest you familiarise yourself with international fighters and again dont just go by how popular they are. Its clear that you only know fighters that currently fight or have previously fought in the UFC.

Gegard can and in my opinion will build a lasting legacy with or without the UFC. He has already done this internationally. Its only the American market that is blind to how good a fighter Gegard is. Hopefully these Strikeforce fights will open up some eyes.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> *No the UFC does have some great fighters but not that many exceptional fighters.* There also have some great fighters that are not as well know, which is very unfortunate IMO.


Are you serious? The UFC has tons of exceptional fighters. They also have the most stacked weight divisions in the sport. If you made a list of fighters in the ufc, and fighters outside of the UFC, the results would disprove this point entirely.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> Are you serious? The UFC has tons of exceptional fighters. They also have the most stacked weight divisions in the sport. If you made a list of fighters in the ufc, and fighters outside of the UFC, the results would disprove this point entirely.


Again your basing it on popularity and familiarity of fighters for American viewers. I wonder if your typical Japanese or Korean MMA fan would have that same list 
(apart from Fedor).

Now the UFC might be stacked but thats just one organisation against many many that exists around the world. Those other organisations are more cometitive because they allow co-promotion. The UFC's depth on the otherhand isnt too good because they refuse to copromote with anybody. Again, an example is how lacking their depth is is through Randy being croned HW champ with 17 wins and 10 losses, and Lesnar with just 4 wins and already a loss.


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## Tacx0911 (Aug 12, 2009)

GM fought for the title in SF without Fedor on the card. I do not think this is an issue.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

mention Arona but he did beat Fedor and got robbed.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

Can we please stop discussing events from 9 years ago!?!??! Alizio, you know me by now, I generally like your posts but this one is silly, the event took place in 2000. Are we going to discuss a decision from 9 years ago?Really? Come on.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Samborules said:


> Can we please stop discussing events from 9 years ago!?!??! Alizio, you know me by now, I generally like your posts but this one is silly, the event took place in 2000. Are we going to discuss a decision from 9 years ago?Really? Come on.


 if u looked above it was brought up...

"No the UFC does have some great fighters but not that many exceptional fighters. There also have some great fighters that are not as well know, which is very unfortunate IMO.

Now Fedor fought Ricardo Arona who has 14 wins and 5 losses. Ricardo has also won against credible opponents and no Fedor won that fight as per the fight record. There is no ifs and buts in this."

Specifically brought up Arona, a fight in which he lost is what i added. Either way idc really, saying the UFC doesnt have the most talent is funny.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

UFC: GSP, A. Silva, T. Silva, Machida, M. Rua, Nog brothers, Penn, Lesnar, Belfort, Rampage = ELITE

Bones Jones, T. Silva, Cain V., Carwin, Dos Santos, Sanchez = super young prospects coming up.

I think UFC is loaded.


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## Jimdon (Aug 27, 2008)

Samborules said:


> Bones Jones, T. Silva, Cain V., *Carwin*, Dos Santos, Sanchez = super young prospects coming up.


I wouldn't call Carwin a young prospect, dude is like 35yrs old, only has a few prime years left. Probably why he got put to the front of the title line too, IMO.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

Jimdon said:


> I wouldn't call Carwin a young prospect, dude is like 35yrs old, only has a few prime years left. Probably why he got put to the front of the title line too, IMO.


He is 33? I meant in terms of MMA fights not age really, but I hear you.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Samborules said:


> UFC: GSP, A. Silva, T. Silva, Machida, M. Rua, Nog brothers, Penn, Lesnar, Belfort, Rampage = ELITE
> 
> Bones Jones, T. Silva, Cain V., Carwin, Dos Santos, Sanchez = super young prospects coming up.
> 
> I think UFC is loaded.


There are some good ones there but im sure that there are also many more great fighters outside of the UFC in different organisations that might not be as widely known to Americans, although very well known in Japan etc. 

The list you provided me isnt that great. 

GSP - 19-2
A. Silva - 25-4
T. Silva - 14-1
Machida - 16-0
M. Rua - 18-4
Penn - 14-5
Lesnar - 4-1
Belfort - 19-8
Rampage - 30-7


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> There are some good ones there but im sure that there are also many more great fighters outside of the UFC in different organisations that might not be as widely known to Americans, although very well known in Japan etc.
> 
> The list you provided me isnt that great.
> 
> ...


Well, that's your problem. You're basing a fighter on their complete record, although it's extremely obvious that although Silva is 25-4, he is arguably the best P4P fighter in the world at this point. You win some, you lose some, and not everyone can be rocking an undefeated record, such as Fedor, although a few of those are also questionable.

You should name a few fighters that you consider _exceptional_, especially not being impressed by the given list. I can't wait to see it.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

monaroCountry said:


> Lets do a quick breakdown of Randy's fight record by who he fought and whether he lost to those fighters. Its from his first fight to his most recent, then the win-loss of those fighters and finally whether Randy lost to those fighters (L). Going from the below info I would neither think that Randy fought the best fighters or that he is anything remotely above ordinary (judging from his win-loss ratio of 17 wins and 10 losses).


 Randy Couture is a legend in the sport, multi time UFC champ in two diffrent divisions, the fact that you undermine his record due to the fact that he has spent virtually his entire career fighting the top of talent spectrum is pathetic and makes your look ridiculous.




> No the UFC does have some great fighters but not that many exceptional fighters. There also have some great fighters that are not as well know, which is very unfortunate IMO.


 The real truth is many of them aren't that good, I am 100% certain that guys like Sherk, KenFlo, Guida would run all over guys like Aoki or Hansen who are overated because its "cool" to love Japanese MMA, seriously Aoki has a sick ground game and is considered one of the best LW's in the world, why? His striking is horrid and he would never take down any of the top 5 UFC LW's because he lacks an ability to take the fight to the ground compared to many of the American LW's.


> Now Fedor fought Ricardo Arona who has 14 wins and 5 losses. Ricardo has also won against credible opponents and no Fedor won that fight as per the fight record. There is no ifs and buts in this.


 At the time of the fight Arona was 2-0 against nobodies and was an inexperianced rookie, and I realize the record says Fedor won but honestly I think 90% of the people who have watched that fight think Arona won.





> I suggest you familiarise yourself with international fighters and again dont just go by how popular they are. Its clear that you only know fighters that currently fight or have previously fought in the UFC.


 I know international fighters but the fact is that there really aren't many talented guys at 205 outside the UFC, and after a possible Hendo fight Moussasi will be left facing scrubs like Mike Whitehead and Kevin Randleman.



> Gegard can and in my opinion will build a lasting legacy with or without the UFC. He has already done this internationally. Its only the American market that is blind to how good a fighter Gegard is. Hopefully these Strikeforce fights will open up some eyes.


Gegard Mousasi has built a legacy and Randy Couture hasn't? Mousasi has a pretty padded record (like all fighters who fight in Japan) due to fighting alot of nobodies and sub par fighters. The fact that you mock Randy Couture's legacy while trying to sell me Moussasi's exposes you for nothing more than an elitist who hates everything UFC and thinks every fighter outside it is far superior.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Another elitist re: Japanese MMA? *yawns*

I never got that. I still don't. That arrogance has no basis in reality or fact.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Randy Couture is a legend in the sport, multi time UFC champ in two diffrent divisions, the fact that you undermine his record due to the fact that he has spent virtually his entire career fighting the top of talent spectrum is pathetic and makes your look ridiculous.


Again its only just the UFC he has won and no he hasnt fought the top talent, you can see this from the win-loss ration I showed you!!!!!!!!

Not only have I pointed out his pathetic win - loss rato I have also pointed out the fact that he hasnt really competed against the best that the world has to offer. Out of 27 fights, Randy has fought against just 6 fighters from outside the American continent, from that 6 he has lost against 3 or 50% of those fighters. This in my view is pathetic and a clear example of how the UFC protects its assetts against the worlds best. 




> The real truth is many of them aren't that good, I am 100% certain that guys like Sherk, KenFlo, Guida would run all over guys like Aoki or Hansen who are overated because its "cool" to love Japanese MMA, seriously Aoki has a sick ground game and is considered one of the best LW's in the world, why? His striking is horrid and he would never take down any of the top 5 UFC LW's because he lacks an ability to take the fight to the ground compared to many of the American LW's.


I dont really follow any one organisation and am in into whats cool at the moment. 

Lets take the best in the UFC, Anderson Silva, 3 of his four losses came from Japanese fighters, Randy has also lost against a japanese, GSP hasnt fought any Japanese. 2 of Rampage Jackson's 7 losses came from Japanese fighters, and the list goes on. Obviously these unknown (to Americans anyway) Japanese fighters can actually fight and have proved to be able to beat the best UFC had to offer. 




> At the time of the fight Arona was 2-0 against nobodies and was an inexperianced rookie, and I realize the record says Fedor won but honestly I think 90% of the people who have watched that fight think Arona won.


Face fact that Fedor won!!!!!!

Also realise that both fighters were Rookies at the time. Both have obviously improves since then, fedor more so. 





> I know international fighters but the fact is that there really aren't many talented guys at 205 outside the UFC, and after a possible Hendo fight Moussasi will be left facing scrubs like Mike Whitehead and Kevin Randleman.


Again your just using what your familiar with. Its like saying McDonalds has the best burger, simply because you havent tasted any other burgers.




> Gegard Mousasi has built a legacy and Randy Couture hasn't? Mousasi has a pretty padded record (like all fighters who fight in Japan) due to fighting alot of nobodies and sub par fighters. The fact that you mock Randy Couture's legacy while trying to sell me Moussasi's exposes you for nothing more than an elitist who hates everything UFC and thinks every fighter outside it is far superior.


I actually think that Randy has a padded record since the UFC refuses to let him fight agaisnt other organisations and he mostly just fights American talents. Gegard on the other hand might not be as familiar to you and Dana might not hype him up because he is an M1 fighter, however Gegard has fought the worlds best and also won against more opponent. 

When the UFC took an American team to the UK which team won? When M1 had Russia V a USA team, who won? There are many many many more international talents that you havent been exposed to.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> Lets take the best in the UFC, Anderson Silva, 3 of his four losses came from Japanese fighters, Randy has also lost against a japanese, GSP hasnt fought any Japanese. 2 of Rampage Jackson's 7 losses came from Japanese fighters, and the list goes on. Obviously these unknown (to Americans anyway) Japanese fighters can actually fight and have proved to be able to beat the best UFC had to offer.


I'm still waiting on you to list these _elite_ Japanese MMA stars.

According to your theory, people can't and don't improve. Check that, anyone other than UFC fighters can improve. Silva lost in '06, over three years ago, but you still insist on using that argument.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

monaroCountry said:


> When the UFC took an American team to the UK which team won? When M1 had Russia V a USA team, who won? There are many many many more international talents that you havent been exposed to.


Just stop seriously, you make no sense and just keep using ridiculous crap to try and make your point. None of the guys on the UK vs US, TUF are guys I would consider major talents, I don't think anyone who competes in the M-1 shows is extremely talented, I have watched them and have yet to see anybody that appears to look good enough to fight in any major MMA organization (which is why they fight for 3rd rate M-1 instead. How is it a mattter of exposure? I watch practically everything from everywhere, (from Dream, MFC, Strikeforce, XMMA, Bittetti,etc), the diffrence between me and you is you look down on the UFC fans and think watching "international" MMA makes you better than the rest and you use that believe to fuel this hatred of all things UFC, and a ridiculous exageration of the talent level of every non UFC fighter in comparison to those in the UFC.


----------



## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

swpthleg said:


> Another elitist re: Japanese MMA? *yawns*
> 
> I never got that. I still don't. That arrogance has no basis in reality or fact.




Arrognce is when you wont co-promote with any other organisations from around the world or even locally......yet still calling your fighters world champs. Its a bit like baseball calling it a world series when no one else plays it apart from Americans and maybe the Koreans and Japanese. 

Americans are known internationally as arrogant.


----------



## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> Arrognce is when you wont co-promote with any other organisations from around the world or even locally......yet still calling your fighters world champs. Its a bit like baseball calling it a world series when no one else plays it apart from Americans and maybe the Koreans and Japanese.
> 
> Americans are known internationally as arrogant.


I'll ask one more time, who are these _elite_ MMA fighters that you're referring to?

If you dodge the question this time, I'll assume you're simply talking out of your ass.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I bet you there "international"


----------



## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Yeah even I wouldn't pretend like the UFC doesn't have the majority of top 10 talent, that's a fact, not speculation. Although I think SF is definitely pulling hard and quick on the UFC.

The argument was, "M-1 is the worse thing to happen to MMA."

This is simply untrue and pretty much undefendable.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I think M-1 is horrible for MMA, I think co-promoting with them defiantly had a hand in (although not solely responsible for) the demise of Affliction, I think they have also been really responsible for Fedor's relative inactivity since Prides demise as well as his inability to reach a deal with the UFC and now they have handcuffed Mousasi's ability to defend his Strikeforce LHW title.


----------



## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

UrbanBounca said:


> I'm still waiting on you to list these _elite_ Japanese MMA stars.
> 
> According to your theory, people can't and don't improve. Check that, anyone other than UFC fighters can improve. Silva lost in '06, over three years ago, but you still insist on using that argument.





Im not just on about Japanese MMA fighters though im talking about global MMA fighters. In order to compete at a global scale the UFC must open up its doors to global competition.

And no ive pointed out time and time again that people have the capacity to improve. However when was the last time Anderson Silva fought against a fighter outside the American continent? yup 2006 against a Japanese which he lost, when was the one before that 2004 and again against a Japanese which he also lost. Get my drift sonny boy?




> Just stop seriously, you make no sense and just keep using ridiculous bullshit to try and make your point. None of the guys on the UK vs US, TUF are guys I would consider majoe talents, I don't think anyone who competes in the M-1 shows is talented, I have watched them and have yet to see anybody that appears to look good enough to fight in any major MMA organization (which is why they fight for 3rd rate M-1 instead.


These are just some guys fighting in the M1 challenge that would give the UFC's best some fits in a ring or a cage. The five guys from Russian Legion moves pretty damn good, reminds me of Fedor on how they move, it must be from their Combat ***** background. BTW Rusian Legion won 5-0 against Team USA.
-Magomed Shikshabekov 
-Yura Ivlev
-Gadsimurad Omarov
-Besiki Gerenava
-Ansar Chalangov





> How is it a mattter of exposure? I watch practically everything from everywhere, (from Dream, MFC, Strikeforce, XMMA, Bittetti,etc), the diffrence between me and you is you look down on the UFC fans and think watching "international" MMA makes you better than the rest and you use that believe to fuel this hatred of all things UFC, and a ridiculous exageration of the talent level of every non UFC fighter in comparison to those in the UFC.


Look at some of the more recent UFC bouts, pretty damn pathetic if you ask me. And yes it is about exposure, how else can Randy or Lesnar be even remotely ranked in the top 10 anywhere? It is definately harder for an international fighter to be regarded highly by the Americans.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

To be the best you need to fight the best, fighting cans doesn't make you a somebody, a guy who is 3-2 against elite level fighters will always be considered better than somebody who is 5-0 against nobodies. This is why Frankie Edgar was considered the favorite and not Matt Veech. Your arguements are sad and pathetic and are not based on logical thought just blind hatred and/or blind love so there really isn't any point debating this further though.


----------



## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Toxic said:


> I think M-1 is horrible for MMA, I think co-promoting with them defiantly had a hand in (although not solely responsible for) the demise of Affliction, I think they have also been *really responsible for Fedor's relative inactivity* since Prides demise as well as his inability to reach a deal with the UFC and now they have handcuffed Mousasi's ability to defend his Strikeforce LHW title.


Fedors last fight in Pride was in 31 December 2006 (basically 2007). He has fought only 5 MMA fights since then. However he has also fought on 5 Combat ***** Championships 4 times winnder and one 3rd place in 2007, 2008 and 2009. If you include Fedor's Combat ***** fights then he is also one of the most active fighters going around. You have to remember that Combat ***** for Fedor is more important than his MMA. 

Now compare to Brock Lesnar who started at around the same time (June 2007 - so around 6 months difference). Brock doesnt fight for M1 but for the UFC, yet he has only had 5 fights in MMA. The problem for Brock is that he doesnt compete and hasnt won anything outside MMA, especially not at an international level competition.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Toxic said:


> To be the best you need to fight the best, fighting cans doesn't make you a somebody, a guy who is 3-2 against elite level fighters will always be considered better than somebody who is 5-0 against nobodies. This is why Frankie Edgar was considered the favorite and not Matt Veech. Your arguements are sad and pathetic and are not based on logical thought just blind hatred and/or blind love so there really isn't any point debating this further though.





Now Both Gegard and Fedor are on the same boat with you UFC fans. Both Gegard and Fedor has an equally impressive record, not recognised by said UFC fans. You say that both Gegard and Fedor has padded records and have fought cans. Lets look at what Fedor has achieved (below). NAME ME ONE OTHER UFC FIGHTER WITH THE SAME OR EVEN REMOTELY IMPRESSIVE RECORD AS FEDOR. SHOW ME HOW MANY WAMMA AND PRIDE BELTS GSP, ANDERSON SILVA, LESNAR AND RANDY HAVE!!!!!!!!!!! 


There is only ONE fighter that has beaten:

*5 different UFC champions*
Coleman
Randleman
Sylvia
Nog
Arlovski

*4 kick boxing champions*
Schilt
Hunt
Goodridge
HMC

*7 different MMA champions*

Coleman
Randleman
Sylvia
Nog
Goodridge
Mirko
Arlovski

*2 silver olympic medalist*
Lindland
Ogawa

*1 ADCC open weight champion*

Arona

Won the combat ***** gold in Russia on 2-21-09, defeating 3 players in 1 minute.

*There is only 1 fighter that has gone 30+ fights that has*

- Never knocked down by any type of strike.
- Never lost a decision.
- Never been sub'd
- Never been knocked out

*Only one fighter that has ever won 5 different mma championships. *

- Wamma HW belt
- Pride HW belt
- Pride Grand Prix tournament
- Rings king of kings tournament
- Rings world class tournament



*All while finishing 76% of his opponents. *

A current 25 fight win streak
With 22 victories in the first round
5 victories in the first minute
12 victories in the first 2 minutes
*Lowest strikes absorbed per minute, percentage out of any fighter with at least 10 fights at .59*
No other fighter in all MMA has any where near the list of accomplishments. 

Mind you Fedor did this while being injured 2 times due to injuries he sustained to his hand during a fight. And while top fighters backed out of fights. One of which back out on multiple occasions.

---------------------------------------------------------- 

*Men's Judo Championships*

Gold 1997 Russian Judo Championships +100
Bronze 1998 Russian Judo Championships 

*Men's Combat ***** - World Championships*

Gold 2002 Thessaloniki +100 kg
Gold 2002 Panama City open
Gold 2005 Prague +100 kg
Gold 2007 Prague +100 kg
Bronze 2008 St. Petersburg +100 kg



*Russian ***** Championships*

Bronze 1998 Russian Combat ***** Championships +100 kg
Gold 2000 Russian Combat ***** Championships +100 kg
Gold 2002 Russian Combat ***** Championships +100 kg
Gold 2005 Russian Combat ***** Championships +100 kg
Gold 2006 Russian Combat ***** Championships +100 kg
Gold 2007 Russian Combat ***** Championships +100 kg
Gold 2008 Russian Combat ***** Championships +100 kg
Gold 2009 Russian Combat ***** Championships +100 kg


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

I've probably watched 5 or 6 M1 challenge shows and the only fighter i found even semi impressive was Karl "Psycho" Amoussou. A load of cans indeed, so much so that they tried to hype this Baby Fedor kid up and he couldnt beat Kimbo imo lol

Talking alot of nonsense. Wanderlei was the Japanese fighter killer and he gets owned ritually in the UFC. Who are these great Japanese fighters that the UFC is scared to go get?? lol


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

alizio said:


> I've probably watched 5 or 6 M1 challenge shows and the only fighter i found even semi impressive was Karl "Psycho" Amoussou. A load of cans indeed, so much so that they tried to hype this Baby Fedor kid up and he couldnt beat Kimbo imo lol
> 
> Talking alot of nonsense. Wanderlei was the Japanese fighter killer and he gets owned ritually in the UFC. Who are these great Japanese fighters that the UFC is scared to go get?? lol


Yep!

It is complete nonsense to say that most exceptional fighters are outside of the UFC. There are some, but for the most part, the best of the best are under the Zuffa brand.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> Yep!
> 
> It is complete nonsense to say that most exceptional fighters are outside of the UFC. There are some, but for the most part, the best of the best are under the Zuffa brand.




Im not just talking about the Japanese though (again!!!!). Im talking about the global MMA scene that co promote with each other, so you have the french, the Russians etc......

At the moment I have Gegard and Fedor far higher than anyone in the UFC. 



> I've probably watched 5 or 6 M1 challenge shows and the only fighter i found even semi impressive was Karl "Psycho" Amoussou. A load of cans indeed, so much so that they tried to hype this Baby Fedor kid up and he couldnt beat Kimbo imo lol


Have you see the UFC cans? even worse is the TUF cans, getting gassed out in round 1. How pathetic is that?


----------



## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> Yep!
> 
> It is complete nonsense to say that most exceptional fighters are outside of the UFC. There are some, but for the most part, the best of the best are under the Zuffa brand.


Again please tell me anyone with a similar list of achievements as Fedor currently in the UFC.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> At the moment I have Gegard and Fedor far higher than anyone in the UFC.





monaroCountry said:


> Again please tell me anyone with a similar list of achievements as Fedor currently in the UFC.


My point is that their are much more exceptional fighters inside of the UFC than outside of it. Gegard and Fedor are 2 fighters.

If you made a list of great fighters in the UFC and great fighters outside of the UFC. The UFC's list would be longer. Just because some fighters outside of the UFC are better than the one's inside, does not mean that all fighters outside are better.

And besides Fedor and Gegard, M-1 has absolutely nothing on the UFC.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Worse case scenerio they are obligated to be on the same card together....

Strikeforce can easily put together exciting cards with fighters like*......Nick Diaz, Robbie Lawler, Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos, Cung Le, Jake Shields, Frank Shamrock, Dan Henderson, King Mo, Alastair Overeem, Gilbert Melendez, Jason "Mayhem" Miller, Gina Carano, Renato "Babalu" Sobral.....*plus damn near any cross promotion that they damn well please.....

Bottem line is Strikeforce was built and flourished without the help of Fedor or Mousasi...

They'll be fine without them on a card.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

J.P. said:


> Worse case scenerio they are obligated to be on the same card together....
> 
> Strikeforce can easily put together exciting cards with fighters like*......Nick Diaz, Robbie Lawler, Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos, Cung Le, Jake Shields, Frank Shamrock, Dan Henderson, King Mo, Alastair Overeem, Gilbert Melendez, Jason "Mayhem" Miller, Gina Carano, Renato "Babalu" Sobral.....*plus damn near any cross promotion that they damn well please.....
> 
> ...


They also have Werdum and KJ Noons.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

HitOrGetHit said:


> They also have Werdum and KJ Noons.




As well as Bobby Lashley, and Rafael Feijao.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

monaroCountry said:


> Now Both Gegard and Fedor are on the same boat with you UFC fans. Both Gegard and Fedor has an equally impressive record, not recognised by said UFC fans. You say that both Gegard and Fedor has padded records and have fought cans. Lets look at what Fedor has achieved (below). NAME ME ONE OTHER UFC FIGHTER WITH THE SAME OR EVEN REMOTELY IMPRESSIVE RECORD AS FEDOR. SHOW ME HOW MANY WAMMA AND PRIDE BELTS GSP, ANDERSON SILVA, LESNAR AND RANDY HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> There is only ONE fighter that has beaten:
> ...


You can copy and paste, good for you.... Really though that was pointless, I was simply pointing out that while Mousasi's 27-2-1 record sounds really impressive the truth is only just over a dozen of those fights were really against notable opponents and has really only fought one guy (Souza) who I would consider an elite level fighter.

And by the way Combat ***** does not equal MMA, Submission grappler's don't get credit for all the tournaments they compete in.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

J.P. said:


> Worse case scenerio they are obligated to be on the same card together....
> 
> Strikeforce can easily put together exciting cards with fighters like*......Nick Diaz, Robbie Lawler, Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos, Cung Le, Jake Shields, Frank Shamrock, Dan Henderson, King Mo, Alastair Overeem, Gilbert Melendez, Jason "Mayhem" Miller, Gina Carano, Renato "Babalu" Sobral.....*plus damn near any cross promotion that they damn well please.....
> 
> ...



And thats just ONE organisation in AMERICA. Imagine the talent that exists in other organisations and in other countries that many people here might not know about and or does not rate. 



> You can copy and paste, good for you.... Really though that was pointless, I was simply pointing out that while Mousasi's 27-2-1 record sounds really impressive the truth is only just over a dozen of those fights were really against notable opponents and has really only fought one guy (Souza) who I would consider an elite level fighter.
> 
> And by the way Combat ***** does not equal MMA, Submission grappler's don't get credit for all the tournaments they compete in.


Its got nothing about copy and pasting, its about arguing a point and backing it up with credible proof. You on the other hand is simply dismissing everything just because of your opinion without any proof. How do you know that Gegard hasnt fought more elite level fighters? especially when many of those fighters have the same if not better win loss ratio than those fought by Couture.

Combat ***** is as close to MMA as you can possibly get, its basically MMA before MMA became famous in America. Some of the rules in Combat ***** isnt even allowed in MMA like kicking the groin etc.

OK so show me the tournaments those submission grapplers you talk about have THAT THEY COMPETE, *IN ADDITION* TO THEIR NORMAL MMA DAY JOB.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

J.P. said:


> As well as Bobby Lashley, and Rafael Feijao.


Bobby = the black Brock. Both have similar background and achievements/experience. 

Why dont I see Bobby anywhere in the top 5 HW in the world ranking? I tell you why, its because he hasnt been hyped up by Dana. I know that you guys here believe anything Dana says.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> Bobby = the black Brock. Both have similar background and achievements/experience.
> 
> Why dont I see Bobby anywhere in the top 5 HW in the world ranking? I tell you why, its because he hasnt been hyped up by Dana. I know that you guys here believe anything Dana says.


 Brock is top 5 because he is the UFC HW Champion, it has nothing to do with what Dana says, he doesnt control the rankings and your anti UFC tirades are getting lame, boring and pointless.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> Bobby = the black Brock. Both have similar background and achievements/experience.
> 
> Why dont I see Bobby anywhere in the top 5 HW in the world ranking? I tell you why, its because he hasnt been hyped up by Dana. *I know that you guys here believe anything Dana says.*



Man you don't come here much do you? People here don't like what Dana does or has to say a lot of times.

Most people on this site like the UFC, Dream, K-1, Strikeforce and all the other fighting brands. 

Me for example, I love watching any kind of fighting. I love Strikeforce and Fedor and Gegard, but I am not blind to the fact that the UFC is the powerhouse of MMA. I realize that there are many great exceptional fighters elsewhere in the sport. Strikeforce has got a very good crop of fighters and M-1 has 2 of the best fighters in the world. BUT, it does not compare to the number of elite fighters that the UFC has.

Also, Bobby Lashley hasn't fought anybody good at all. Brock Lesnar is the HW champion. There is kind of a difference there. 

The point is that when it comes down to who has a bigger quantity of quality fighters, the UFC is oon top, and M-1 is near the bottom. Yes they have Fedor and Gegard, but 2 fighters is not enough to compete with the UFC.


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## Bzaal (Sep 4, 2009)

Hey, I just checked out Mousasi MMA record. He has f'n two losses. monaroCountry, does it mean he sucks?
I mean... a loss to a guy who isn't even in the wikipedia... You must be really bad at fighting, huh..

btw, monaroCountry, how do you like the up and comming international star.... erm.. what was his name... don't remember, but I'm sure there is one and he soon will be the best p4p fighter in the world.. 

So, you're what.. M1 best friend or something?


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

alizio said:


> Brock is top 5 because he is the UFC HW Champion, it has nothing to do with what Dana says, he doesnt control the rankings and your anti UFC tirades are getting lame, boring and pointless.


Someone in the UFC does control matchups and how the better fighter might not be the one fighting for the title. Isnt this why Dan Henderson left?

So Brock is UFC HW champ after just 4 fights in the UFC including one loss?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

monaroCountry said:


> And thats just ONE organisation in AMERICA. Imagine the talent that exists in other organisations and in other countries that many people here might not know about and or does not rate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't need to quote Wikipedia to prove Randy Couture fought a virtual who's who of the HW and LHW divisions for over a decade, its unesscary because everyone knows it, Randy fought a who's who and was involved in countless title fights and defenses, Mousasi has fought a whole shit pile of nobodies, I know it, you know it (I dont care what there records are they are not elite level fighters), the entire concept of your point of view is so absurd Im almost certain you are just messing with me or you know absolutely nothing about MMA and are merely trying to use Wikepedia to try and make your caase.



monaroCountry said:


> Someone in the UFC does control matchups and how the better fighter might not be the one fighting for the title. Isnt this why Dan Henderson left?
> 
> So Brock is UFC HW champ after just 4 fights in the UFC including one loss?


4 the umpteenth time it has been said over and over Hendo wanted more money, Dan said himself he is in the twilight of his career and needs to make money and that he has left his legacy on the sport regardless of where he fights, he also said he didn't care if he fought Marquardt first or Anderson first, he had some hard feelings over the way it went down but he left the UFC because of *MONEY*, now please quit being a broken freaking record.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

There is even speculation that Henderson was upset that other fighters were making more than him.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> There is even speculation that Henderson was upset that other fighters were making more than him.


*NOT SPECULATION AT ALL!!!!!* Im pretty [email protected] sure I had a bunch of reasons why Hendo left the UFC, money was only a small issue, its was more about respects and having the rug pulled underneath you in terms of matchup. 

Im also pretty sure that the UFC doesnt release fighter pay to anyone including other fighters.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

monaroCountry said:


> And thats just ONE organisation in AMERICA. Imagine the talent that exists in other organisations and in other countries that many people here might not know about and or does not rate. .



Organization.

And this specific organization is what the thread is based on which is why I'm commenting on it.

As far as other talent is concerned....of course it's out there, but honestly until said organizations and fighters are capable of making a large impact on the MMA game and fan base as a whole they'll continue to stay under the radar. And possibly retire there.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

I hate M-1 so bad, everytime I hear about them it's how their greedy asses are screwing something up for somebody else.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

It's way too bizarre now, what happens when Fedor gets injured?


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...Dana can rant & rave all he wants. He just feels threatened by an MMA organization having deeper pockets than Zuffa. The UFC's bankroll is pocket change to CBS. Hendo pretty much busted out Dana on how he treats his fighters, that's why he's with Strikeforce. 
...Scott Coker is offering better treatment & bigger exposure to his fighters. The talent pool in Strikeforce is only getting better & better. Having a women's division with some talented and (hot) looking gals is another thorn in Dana's side. White just needs to grow up a little...


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Dana White?*

Grow up a little would be an understatement! Professional people do not through the F-word around a conversation in every other sentence! If the President of the United States would not say it in public, then the President of Zuffa should not say it!


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

J.P. said:


> Organization.
> 
> And this specific organization is what the thread is based on which is why I'm commenting on it.
> 
> As far as other talent is concerned....of course it's out there, but honestly until said organizations and fighters are capable of making a large impact on the MMA game and fan base as a whole they'll continue to stay under the radar. And possibly retire there.




Correctly or incorrectly ORGANISATION is what most of the english speaking countries use, America uses ORGANIZATION. 

So what makes you think that the UFC has the best talents at a global scale? What makes you think that UFC fighters have made an impact on a global scale? As far as the Japanese or even Russians are concered those who fight in the UFC are relatively unknown and untested. This is because their main MMA diet doesnt consist of UFC, UFC, UFC and more UFC, to them the UFC might be just another bit organisation who only promotes in American with American fighters.

The only way for UFC fighters to truely prove themselves at an international scale would be to co promote and fight with international competition.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Athlete's Cock said:


> Fedor needs to fight more
> 
> 
> 
> He's throwing away his good years on the shelf





Fedor has 31 MMA fights already, and this isnt including his Combat *****, ***** and Judo fights.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Do you discuss anything besides Fedor?


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## fightpragmatist (Dec 3, 2009)

Meh, I kind of just skimmed through your redonkulously long argument. But, I wanted to state a few things to make myself feel more important in life. 

Do I think M-1 is a good promotion? Not, really. 

Do I think the UFC has the best interest of the fighters and the sport of MMA in mind? No, every decision they make is based off of money. With that said, do I think they have a great business model? Yes, they have a great business model and have done great things for their business but not for the WHOLE of the sport.

In regards to Fedor I think he is the greatest MMA fighter to date and is a legend. I personally think he is the greatest p4p fighter in the world. 

I think people could argue who is p4p best, which org is the best all day long. Honestly it's all a matter of opinion unless the UFC would actually co-promote which they'll never do. 

Do I think a fighter is any less great because he won't sign with the UFC? No, I wouldn't want to work for them either.

In regards to Gegard Mousasi, I think he is a great young fighter and would dominate any TUF graduate, or any of the UFC's young talent. He is only 24 and in my opinion has the talent to become one of the world's p4p best fighters in a few years.

Edit: Woot, I did it, If only my mom could see me now.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> Grow up a little would be an understatement! Professional people do not through the F-word around a conversation in every other sentence! If the President of the United States would not say it in public, then the President of Zuffa should not say it!


 You hold private businessmen to the same standards as the President Of The United States?? lol. I rather a guy talk foul mouthed then one that smiles in my face and has his hands in my pocket.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

alizio said:


> You hold private businessmen to the same standards as the President Of The United States?? lol. I rather a guy talk foul mouthed then one that smiles in my face and has his hands in my pocket.


Every decent businessman and especially company President/CEO should hold the same standards as the president in terms of how they interact with everyone else. All good CEO/president should undertake training in either ethics, psychology and communications etc. Whether your the president of the country or the president of a multi billion dollar company you are a central figure of that company/country and are expected to deal with thorny issues.

Your probably the exception to the rule, who doesnt care to be insulted. Most people react differently when insulted.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Man your hatred of all things UFC is just sad and has really gotten pathetic.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

alizio said:


> . I rather a guy talk foul mouthed then one that smiles in my face and has his hands in my pocket.


:confused02: doesnt dana do both of them?


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

monaroCountry said:


> So what makes you think that the UFC has the best talents at a global scale? .


I don't recall making that claim.

Feel free to rereference.


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Global Talent*

Yeah I don't think the UFC has the best overall talent either! Most of the fighters are American which basically makes it an American promotion!


----------



## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> Yeah I don't think the UFC has the best overall talent either! Most of the fighters are American which basically makes it an American promotion!


Three fifths of there champions are not Americans. The next guys getting title shots at lhw and ww are not Americans. The last guys to get title shots at lhw, ww, and mw were not Americans. One of the guys from the main event of the next pay per view is not American. One of the fighters from the co main event on the last pay per view was not American. They have given plenty of opportunities to guys from other countries. That statement you made is just very inaccurate. They may have more American fighters because thats where the promotion is based, but they have plenty of international talent and do not give any hand outs based upon any kind of American bias.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Talent Pool*

Well in all honesty you look at PRIDE they had a mostly Japanese fight roster as well. My point was that the country of origin is what the roster will be mostly made of!


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> Well in all honesty you look at PRIDE they had a mostly Japanese fight roster as well. My point was that the country of origin is what the roster will be mostly made of!


My bad, I got ya now.


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*No, my bad*

I probably said it wrong so that's on me.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> Well in all honesty you look at PRIDE they had a mostly Japanese fight roster as well. My point was that the country of origin is what the roster will be mostly made of!


But if every organization has more fighters of their same country, then every promotion would apply to this argument. So then the argument can be made that the UFC has the best diverse talent in comparison with every other organization. 

You can't compare the UFC to every other organization put together. Of course the UFC won't be as diverse as that. But when you have a lot of champions and top contenders that are of different ethnicities, and those fighters are also on most P4P lists, I think that it is hard to say that the UFC only has the best american fighters.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

joshua7789 said:


> Three fifths of there champions are not Americans. The next guys getting title shots at lhw and ww are not Americans. The last guys to get title shots at lhw, ww, and mw were not Americans. One of the guys from the main event of the next pay per view is not American. One of the fighters from the co main event on the last pay per view was not American. They have given plenty of opportunities to guys from other countries. That statement you made is just very inaccurate. They may have more American fighters because thats where the promotion is based, but they have plenty of international talent and do not give any hand outs based upon any kind of American bias.


When I say America, I mean both North and South America which includes the USA, Brazil and Canada. Most of the fighters in the UFC comes from the Americas, and also fight other fighters in the same region. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UFC_champions

*Heavyweight Championship*
_206 to 265 lbs (93 to 120 kg) _
Mark Coleman – USA
Maurice Smith – USA
Randy Couture – USA
Bas Rutten – Dutch
Kevin Randleman – USA
Randy Couture – USA
Josh Barnett – USA
Ricco Rodriguez – USA
Tim Sylvia – USA
Frank Mir – USA
Andrei Arlovski - Belarus
Andrei Arlovski - Belarus
Tim Sylvia – USA
Randy Couture – USA
Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira – Brazil
Brock Lesnar – USA
Frank Mir – USA
Brock Lesnar – USA

*Light Heavyweight Championship*
_186 to 205 lbs (84 to 93 kg) _
Frank Shamrock – USA
Tito Ortiz – USA
Randy Couture – USA
Randy Couture – USA
Vitor Belfort – Brazil
Randy Couture – USA
Chuck Liddell – USA
Quinton Jackson – USA
Forrest Griffin – USA
Rashad Evans – USA
Lyoto Machida – Brazil

*Middleweight Championship*
_171 to 185 lbs (77 to 84 kg) _
Dave Menne – USA
Murilo Bustamante – Brazil
Evan Tanner – USA
Rich Franklin – USA
Anderson Silva – Brazil


*Welterweight Championship*
_156 to 170 lbs (70 to 77 kg) _
Pat Miletich – USA
Carlos Newton – Canada
Matt Hughes – USA
B.J. Penn – USA
Matt Hughes – USA
Georges St. Pierre – Canada
Matt Serra – USA
Georges St. Pierre – Canada
Georges St. Pierre – Canada

*Lightweight Championship*
_146 to 155 lbs (66 to 70 kg) _
Jens Pulver – USA
Sean Sherk – USA
B. J. Penn – USA

*Superfight Championship*
_Openweight fights featuring previous tournament fighters._
Ken Shamrock – USA
Dan Severn – USA


The following include championship title holders, or UFC tournament and *Ultimate Fighter tournament* winners.
United States - 60
Brazil – 9
Canada - 3
United Kingdom - 3
Japan - 2
Belarus - 1
Mexico - 1
Netherlands - 1
Russia - 1


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> Well in all honesty you look at PRIDE they had a mostly Japanese fight roster as well. My point was that the country of origin is what the roster will be mostly made of!


*Current UFC Champions (UFC fights only)*
Brock Lesnar – 3 fighters from the Americas – 0 Oustide
Lyoto Machida – 6 fighters from the Americas – 2 Outside
Anderson Silva – 9 fighters from the Americas – 0 Outside
Georges St. Pierre – 9 fighters from the Americas – 1 Outside
B. J. Penn – 11 fighters from the Americas – 1 Outside

Now compare that Fedor (Pride) and Gegard (Dream).


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> When I say America, I mean both North and South America which includes the USA, Brazil and Canada. Most of the fighters in the UFC comes from the Americas, and also fight other fighters in the same region.


You're so full of it. You realized after you started posting how many people were from Canada and Brazil, and you needed to fix your mistake. We're not falling for it.

BTW, Canada isn't part of America. :sarcastic12:


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

UrbanBounca said:


> You're so full of it. You realized after you started posting how many people were from Canada and Brazil, and you needed to fix your mistake. We're not falling for it.
> 
> BTW, Canada isn't part of America. :sarcastic12:



The Americas encompasses Canada, USA, Brazil. If im correct then you yourself live in the Americas, which makes your ignorance of your region even more embarrassing. Oh I think you owe me an apology .










*Canada (pronounced /ˈkænədə/) is a country occupying most of northern North America*, extending from the Atlantic Ocean in the east to the Pacific Ocean in the west and northward into the Arctic Ocean. - population 33 million 

*Brazil* is the largest country in *South America* and the only Portuguese-speaking country on that continent. - population 192 million


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

monaroCountry said:


> The Americas encompasses Canada, USA, Brazil. If im correct then you yourself live in the Americas, which makes your ignorance of your region even more embarrassing. Oh I think you owe me an apology .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Im Canadian, I don't care what your atlas tells you Im not an American, go anywhere in the worl and ask them who americans are and they will say US citizens, your really reaching here.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Im Canadian, I don't care what your atlas tells you Im not an American, go anywhere in the worl and ask them who americans are and they will say US citizens, *your* really reaching here.


Silly Canadian spelling... flavour... colour... your instead of you're... 


And it's definitely not a stretch to say Canada is part of America considering it's the largest part of North *America*.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> The Americas encompasses Canada, USA, Brazil. If im correct then you yourself live in the Americas, which makes your ignorance of your region even more embarrassing. Oh I think you owe me an apology .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Man you will do whatever you have to in order to prove a point. Everyone knows that when someone says "American" that they are referring to someone within the United States. I don't care what you find, nobody will ever say "man that American fighter was great" and be talking about Anderson Silva.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

America's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> America's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


My point is that saying that the by saying that the UFC only has the best American fighters is usually imply's the best fighters from the US. If you are talking about the best fighters from the America's, that includes the best Mexican fighters, the best Brazilian fighters, the best Canadian fighters. The "America's" have a very diverse population.


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## fightpragmatist (Dec 3, 2009)




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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

monaroCountry said:


> America's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I'll give this guy credit, it actually took a few posts before I realized it was a level/troll. Usually I can tell right away.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

> My point is that saying that the by saying that the UFC only has the best American fighters is usually imply's the best fighters from the US. If you are talking about the best fighters from the America's, that includes the best Mexican fighters, the best Brazilian fighters, the best Canadian fighters. The "America's" have a very diverse population.


Ive made it abundantly clear that many of the fighters in the UFC are either based or are from countries in the America's, most specifically Canada, USA and Brazil. I have also provided proof that these UFC fighters mostly fight others in the same region. To be regarded as the worlds best I think that a fighter must compete against the best from around the world, not just fighters from one region. 

Other organisation co-promoting have a wider pool of talent to draw from and are more global. you have KSW in Poland, you have M1 in the Russian region, you have several Japanese organisaiton, you have Strikeforce in America and many others. 

Now its your turn to refute my arguement without using popular (in America anyway) fighters.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> Ive made it abundantly clear that many of the fighters in the UFC are either based or are from countries in the America's, most specifically Canada, USA and Brazil. I have also provided proof that these UFC fighters mostly fight others in the same region. To be regarded as the worlds best I think that a fighter must compete against the best from around the world, not just fighters from one region.
> 
> Other organisation co-promoting have a wider pool of talent to draw from and are more global. you have KSW in Poland, you have M1 in the Russian region, you have several Japanese organisaiton, you have Strikeforce in America and many others.
> 
> Now its your turn to refute my arguement without using popular (in America anyway) fighters.


I think that as a whole, the UFC is the best organization. They may not have every single great fighter, but they have a lot more elite fighters than the other organizations. M-1 has some good fighters as well as other orgs around the world. But as a whole I think that the UFC has more elite fighters than M-1 or any other single Org.

That's all that I am saying about this. I have grown quite tired of this debate. So that is my opinion. If you don't like it then we are going to have to agree to disagree.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I think that as a whole, the UFC is the best organization. They may not have every single great fighter, but they have a lot more elite fighters than the other organizations. M-1 has some good fighters as well as other orgs around the world. But as a whole I think that the UFC has more elite fighters than M-1 or any other single Org.
> 
> That's all that I am saying about this. I have grown quite tired of this debate. So that is my opinion. If you don't like it then we are going to have to agree to disagree.



As a whole then I agree, but because they refuse to co-promote with anyone else then their competition is actually pretty bad.


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## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

can anyone say f**k you m1
I appalogize for thje language but this is rediculous


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Can anyone say M1 co-promoting with KSW to snare a fight with the current newest and biggest name in MMA....Mariusz Pudzianowski? 

This guy drew 6 million viewers in Poland alone, on a per capita basis Mariusz has 10 times the drawing power of the UFC's biggest drawcard, KIMBO.

Too bad the UFC doesnt co-promote. 
Can anyone say f*%k you UFC?


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> Can anyone say M1 co-promoting with KSW to snare a fight with the current newest and biggest name in MMA....Mariusz Pudzianowski?
> 
> This guy drew 6 million viewers in Poland alone, on a per capita basis Mariusz has 10 times the drawing power of the UFC's biggest drawcard, KIMBO.
> 
> ...


I believe he was talking about the actual thread topic. He was saying that the Mousasi/Fedor thing is ridiculous. Not making a statemment as to which organization is better. You me and Toxic got kinda off topic.


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## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I believe he was talking about the actual thread topic. He was saying that the Mousasi/Fedor thing is ridiculous. Not making a statemment as to which organization is better. You me and Toxic got kinda off topic.


Why think you hitorgethit. I didnt actually think what I said was that hard to get.:thumbsup:


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

monaroCountry said:


> Can anyone say M1 co-promoting with KSW to snare a fight with the current newest and biggest name in MMA....Mariusz Pudzianowski?
> 
> This guy drew 6 million viewers in Poland alone, on a per capita basis Mariusz has 10 times the drawing power of the UFC's biggest drawcard, KIMBO.
> 
> ...


Do you honestly believe Kimbo is the biggest draw in the UFC? Man you need to get your head examined, having a couple fights that did really good on cable does not mean anything, the UFC is not on a network they are on PPV, people have to shell out money which means many will get together, the average ppv purchase is not on person watching it alone, the number of solo viewers for network fights would be considerable higher.


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Do you honestly believe Kimbo is the biggest draw in the UFC? Man you need to get your head examined, having a couple fights that did really good on cable does not mean anything, the UFC is not on a network they are on PPV, people have to shell out money which means many will get together, the average ppv purchase is not on person watching it alone, the number of solo viewers for network fights would be considerable higher.


Quoted for truth.

How many people do you know that just sit there alone watching a PPV? I do not know any.

Most people get a group of people and pitch in money. It just works best. However a free event isn't so much the same. I watched the strikeforce event alone but I have NEVER watched a PPV alone. Its just different. Kimbo is NOT the UFC's biggest draw. He's so far from it


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Intermission said:


> Quoted for truth.
> 
> How many people do you know that just sit there alone watching a PPV? I do not know any.
> 
> Most people get a group of people and pitch in money. It just works best. However a free event isn't so much the same. I watched the strikeforce event alone but I have NEVER watched a PPV alone. Its just different. Kimbo is NOT the UFC's biggest draw. He's so far from it


So who is the UFC's biggest draw for the general public?

In simple terms how many millions of viewers did they get? Clear and simple question.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Probably Lesnar right now, GPS does good numbers, BJ does alright but I would think Lesnar is king although I wonder if his novelty wil not wear off eventually.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Probably Lesnar right now, GPS does good numbers, BJ does alright but I would think Lesnar is king although I wonder if his novelty wil not wear off eventually.


How many viewers did Lesnar get on his last fight? and hwo many for Kimbo?

I did say casual viewers, for enthusiasts like us of course it would be Lesnar.


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> How many viewers did Lesnar get on his last fight? and hwo many for Kimbo?
> 
> I did say casual viewers, for enthusiasts like us of course it would be Lesnar.


Dude, we made it pretty clear that Kimbo was on a FREE card, Lesnar is on PPV cards. PPV's are generally not bought by 1 single person but instead many people who all pitch in money. 

Kimbo's fights are watched indivitually, not Lesnars.

Brock Lesnar is the UFC's biggest draw. Hands down


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> Can anyone say M1 co-promoting with KSW to snare a fight with the current newest and biggest name in MMA....Mariusz Pudzianowski?
> 
> This guy drew 6 million viewers in Poland alone, on a per capita basis Mariusz has 10 times the drawing power of the UFC's biggest drawcard, KIMBO.
> 
> ...



on free TV in Poland?? lol yea im sure he will be big a draw worldwide and wasnt just because it was FREE in his home country and he is a national hero there... but hey, Polish national heroes are always huge international draws, i mean look at..... ummm.....ahh.... Wayne Gretsky?? lol i cant think of one.

I also find it funny that ppl like you and Khov who disrespect Brock all the time are on his nuts... Brock is only size and strength huh?? What is this guy?? lol at least Brock comes in with a legit HIGH level wrestling base..... what does this guy come with?? He is actually the thing ppl hated about Brock.... just a big, dumb, strong guy with no real MMA background coming in looking to smash ppl... yet since he is euro you guys love him?? Lol WWE takes more physical ability then strong man crap.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

alizio said:


> on free TV in Poland?? lol yea im sure he will be big a draw worldwide and wasnt just because it was FREE in his home country and he is a national hero there... but hey, Polish national heroes are always huge international draws, i mean look at..... ummm.....ahh.... Wayne Gretsky?? lol i cant think of one.


You see what I mean? Polish national sporting heroes are huge in the region. The same as American national heroes (in league they only play amongst themselves) especially in the NFL and baseball are only huge in America.




> I also find it funny that ppl like you and Khov who disrespect Brock all the time are on this pollacks nuts... Brock is only size and strength huh?? What is this guy?? lol at least Brock comes in with a legit HIGH level wrestling base..... what does this guy come with?? He is actually the thing ppl hated about Brock.... just a big, dumb, strong guy with no real MMA background coming in looking to smash ppl... yet since he is euro you guys love him?? Lol WWE takes more physical ability then strong man crap.



So has Brock shown any wrestling skills in MMA apart from his GnP? Show me his wins that doesnt involve GnP.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

alizio said:


> Wayne Gretsky??
> ... .


Wayne is Canadian .


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

alizio said:


> international draws, i mean look at..... ummm.....ahh.... Wayne Gretsky?? lol i cant think of one.


WHAT? lmao Gretzky is one of MY national hero's. You know, Canada. That very large country. Yeah us.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Intermission said:


> WHAT? lmao Gretzky is one of MY national hero's. You know, Canada. That very large country. Yeah us.


 i guess ppls sarcasm meters are broken... i was making a joke... you know it's so hard to think of an international polish superstar that i named one of Polish background that obv wasnt born there...

or i was born and raised in Toronto and i didnt know Wayne Gretsky was Canadian, take your pick.


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

alizio said:


> or i was born and raised in Toronto and i didnt know Wayne Gretsky was Canadian, take your pick.


Gretzky.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Intermission said:


> Gretzky.


 nice contribution!! my bad i mis-spelled somebodys name!!! neg rep!!


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

alizio said:


> nice contribution!! my bad i mis-spelled somebodys name!!! neg rep!!


lol, because I am not immature "member" like you. I am not going to neg you back. Your really cool though man


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

Hi alizio...how are you

Fedor = Best

LOL


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Fedor=Beast*

That is certainly true!


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## Zuke (Sep 22, 2006)

M1 is turning out to be a problem for SF? Why what a surprise. Their best LHW is not available due to fights in Japan. I'd love to know who thought it was a good idea to sell your soul to try to attack the UFC.


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## Zuke (Sep 22, 2006)

The reason for the clause "I am assuming" is that Fedor is HIGH PRICED TALENT". M1 is using Moussasi as insurance. If Fedor losses and they decide to try to renegotiate pay or drop him outright they will lose Mousassi too.

What if their contracts are different lengths? Say Fedor ABSOLUTELY DEMOLISHES everybody SF brings him and his contract is up and now M1 wants $10,000,000 a fight? You have to say yes or you lose your LHW Champ too.

Fedor would be able to fight without Moussai I am sure. But Moussai is a GREAT YOUNG FIGHTER but he is a bargaining chip.


This is a classic example of why SF is wasting their time and money.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

Zuke said:


> M1 is turning out to be a problem for SF? Why what a surprise. Their best LHW is not available due to fights in Japan. I'd love to know who thought it was a good idea to sell your soul to try to attack the UFC.


Are you a fan of the sport of mma ?? Or you a ufc fan.. ???


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## Zuke (Sep 22, 2006)

Im a HUGE MMA fan. I just think Strikeforce is making a huge mistake.

I am not a dreamer. I realize what business is like. All this "good for MMA" talk is utter bullshit and is the exact opposite of how you make money in business.


----------



## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

Zuke said:


> The reason for the clause "I am assuming" is that Fedor is HIGH PRICED TALENT". M1 is using Moussasi as insurance. If Fedor losses and they decide to try to renegotiate pay or drop him outright they will lose Mousassi too.
> 
> What if their contracts are different lengths? Say Fedor ABSOLUTELY DEMOLISHES everybody SF brings him and his contract is up and now M1 wants $10,000,000 a fight? You have to say yes or you lose your LHW Champ too.
> 
> ...


Dude there not doing anything that the zuffa hasnt done to ensure the money flow stays.. There not out to cash in and say **** it.. There new gym says there about there sport and there country.. I say good for them. And I have a feeling in the next 8-10 years there is going to be a extreme amount of top quality fighters coming from the camp.. So in all its kind of smart to play with them now on a global scale for the long run. You can only bully and run ruff shot for so long before people have had enough and the tables turn.


----------



## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

Zuke said:


> Im a HUGE MMA fan. I just think Strikeforce is making a huge mistake.
> 
> I am not a dreamer. I realize what business is like. All this "good for MMA" talk is utter bullshit and is the exact opposite of how you make money in business.


Nope I disagree.. The way extreme money making biz that zuffa has become is bad for the sport of mma.


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## Zuke (Sep 22, 2006)

Everything I said is just speculation. 

IF I WAS M1 I WOULD MAKE THE SAME CLAUSES TOO. I would also avoid M1 if I was involved in promoting.

YOU GUYS HAVE TO REALIZE THAT MOST IF NOT ALL PROMOTERS DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE SPORT OF MMA.

**** you guys are touchy.


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## Zuke (Sep 22, 2006)

Nope, we actually agree. Re-read please.

If its good for business, its bad for MMA (if your idea of good MMA is many organizations). It is an inverse relationship.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

Zuke said:


> Nope, we actually agree. Re-read please.
> 
> If its good for business, its bad for MMA (if your idea of good MMA is many organizations). It is an inverse relationship.


The method and role that many promotions have taken in being a promoting org putting fighter and fights first is good for the sport.. GLobal domination nazism the route the ufc has taken is bad. It makes the sport a brand and not a legit sport for the ages.


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## Zuke (Sep 22, 2006)

They take this position BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO. Not because they want to. If you want to try to be a major player now you have to co-promote. These guys are not Saints.

Don't think for one minute they wouldn't give their left nut to switch places.

Who the **** wouldn't want to be the absolute market leader with total domination in their field. That's the goal in business.


----------



## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

There face Dana doesnt help any . Besides.. I feel that a better more respectful biz route can be taken with the ufc towards other orgs . Use smaller shows respectfully as a minor leagues develop better foreign relations. There is no way in hell the ufc can globally dominate. The country of Japan and its people will not let a outsider profit like so in there country through any biz and thats not jus them with that out look. Russia will not allow it. China and the list can go on..Its a never ending battle that cant be won.


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## Zuke (Sep 22, 2006)

Then that is the exact reason why they will never have stiff competiton for the UFC until the competition try other methods. 

Japan had the nuts just five years ago. These same guys that are running DREAM and "open to co-promote" were crooks and scumbags when they had the monopoly. The show is now on the other foot. Nobody that runs a business wants the employees dictating term. Why do you think unions are hated? Why do you think free agents in sports changed the way things worked?

Oh, I forgot. I can not believe nobody beat Zuffa to the specialzing in lower weight classes. They had a great chance there before WEC locked up all the guys.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

Zuke said:


> Then that is the exact reason why they will never have stiff competiton for the UFC until the competition try other methods.
> 
> Japan had the nuts just five years ago. These same guys that are running DREAM and "open to co-promote" were crooks and scumbags when they had the monopoly. The show is now on the other foot. Nobody that runs a business wants the employees dictating term. Why do you think unions are hated? Why do you think free agents in sports changed the way things worked?


Dream is not the EXACT same comp as Pride was if thats what u mean.There are alot more heads involved now.. And for that route in history RINGS was running the show with a wrestling / mma act that had the asian scene on lock UNTIL PRIDE came along and snatched up all there fighters and carried on.. Now from there demise the ufc is following the same route.. You think the ufc was the first to market its fighters the way they are? Video games , toys and so on.. Jus following the foot steps.. sooner of later unless they evolve into there own route besides a tuff show they will fail also. ONE DAY 


Zuke said:


> Oh, I forgot. I can not believe nobody beat Zuffa to the specialzing in lower weight classes. They had a great chance there before WEC locked up all the guys.


WEC is owned by zuffa.. And japan has a crazy amount of skiled exciting fighters in lower classes that WE NEVER hear about.


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## Zuke (Sep 22, 2006)

I know the WEC is Zuffa. I was implying someone in the USA should have started a Promotion for the 155 and under before WEC did. They could have gotten a tonnes of great talent contacts and would now dominate the market.

Of course Zuffa did not invent their strategy. What is going to determine Zuffa power is how they treat their employees. They need to pay them well, let them rest and not require too much extra and they are good.


----------



## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

Zuke said:


> I know the WEC is Zuffa. I was implying someone in the USA should have started a Promotion for the 155 and under before WEC did. They could have gotten a tonnes of great talent contacts and would now dominate the market.
> 
> Of course Zuffa did not invent their strategy. What is going to determine Zuffa power is how they treat their employees. They need to pay them well, let them rest and not require too much extra and they are good.


Yeah there wasnt really any lighter weights in comp with the wec. Thats why zuffa bought them tho but I honestly think they should atleast co-promote there shows from time to time.


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## cardswschamps10 (Jan 22, 2010)

*ufc over strikeforce*

M-1 is screwing over fedor. The ufc is so smart. They dont have to sign fedor because they dont need him. Their heavyweight devision and all other devisions except maybe lightweight is the best in the whole world. The ufc has Lesnar, Mir, Carwin, dos Santos, gonzaga, velazquez. Strikeforce is just a small promotion who once every 4 months becomes main stream. Strikeforce has no choice on wether to co-promote or not because if they didnt say yes to fedor and mousasi's deal they would be OUT OF BUISNESS AND BANKRUPT. Since the ufc has talent and money they can chose what they want. If fedor signs with the ufc he will lose. That's a guarantee. Hes too scared to fight lesnar. If the ufc co-promoted then other fighters would want to fight outside of the ufc so they would have to listen to everyone's demands. The ufc dosent need lesnar to be big because they already are the biggest mixed martial arts promotion the world has ever seen. The reason strikeforce is a name is because the ufc goes to other countries to promote because they have money and how does strikeforce try to promote? they go to the playboy mansion. Strikeforce feeds off the success of the ufc. so f*ck m-1 global and strikeforce they will never be the ufc ever.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Be the UFC*

I don't think they are trying to be the UFC, they are trying to be Strikeforce!


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

cardswschamps10 said:


> M-1 is screwing over fedor. The ufc is so smart. They dont have to sign fedor because they dont need him. Their heavyweight devision and all other devisions except maybe lightweight is the best in the whole world. The ufc has Lesnar, Mir, Carwin, dos Santos, gonzaga, velazquez.


Fedor is part owner of M1, he has also been treated fairly and paid very well, as showcased by his massive a$$ gym. Fedor is the number one world heavyweight with 31 wins and 1 loss, the UFC on the other hand needs to hype up its fighters, their current paper champ is a guy with 4 wins and 1 loss, the other UFC heavyweights are not even good enough to mention.



> Hes too scared to fight lesnar. If the ufc co-promoted then other fighters would want to fight outside of the ufc so they would have to listen to everyone's demands. The ufc dosent need lesnar to be big because they already are the biggest mixed martial arts promotion the world has ever seen.


THE WORLD != America.

Currently Fedor is the undisputed global heavyweight, far more popular and many times bigger than Lesnar. Fedor has also defeated 5 previous UFC champions his last was a massive KO, the one previous was an easy 36 second win.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*5 Past UFC Champions*

Mark Coleman, Kevin Randleman, Andre Arlovski, Tim Sylvia, and who else? Noguiera?


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

Fedor also beat Aoki and Gegard in exhibition matches...he is a beast!

LOL


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> Mark Coleman, Kevin Randleman, Andre Arlovski, Tim Sylvia, and who else? Noguiera?





Samborules said:


> Fedor also beat Aoki and Gegard in exhibition matches...he is a beast!
> 
> LOL


He has beaten Cro Cop as well.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> He has beaten Cro Cop as well.


Not to mention guys like Herring who he wrecked when everyone thought he wasn't ready for the Crazy Horse.

Then guys like Schilt who got outstruck then dominated.

Guys like Mark Hunt who never looked the same after fighting Fedor.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Not to mention guys like Herring who he wrecked when everyone thought he wasn't ready for the Crazy Horse.
> 
> Then guys like Schilt who got outstruck then dominated.
> 
> Guys like Mark Hunt who never looked the same after fighting Fedor.


Eh it's all about people wanting someone to come along and kill the legend. It happens all of the time. People always try and think of reasons as to why this fighter will beat GSP and why this fighter is better than Anderson Silva. In reality, they do have a chance, but people want it to happen so bad that they start believing that it is very likely to happen.

The same thing happens when Fedor gets fights. I mean go back and find a thread about Fedor/Rogers and see how many people were convinced that Rogers was definitely going to win.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> Eh it's all about people wanting someone to come along and kill the legend. It happens all of the time. People always try and think of reasons as to why this fighter will beat GSP and why this fighter is better than Anderson Silva. In reality, they do have a chance, but people want it to happen so bad that they start believing that it is very likely to happen.
> 
> The same thing happens when Fedor gets fights. I mean go back and find a thread about Fedor/Rogers and see how many people were convinced that Rogers was definitely going to win.


That is true in many cases the difference here is there a group of mma fans that believe Fedor is on another level and have learned not to doubt but to go with the flow lol.. 


Fedor fell down the rabits hole and ate the red pill..


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Red Pill*

And he discovered his full potential and became the savior of humanity!


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> And he discovered his full potential and became the savior of humanity!


You. Said. No. More. Emoticons.

It is distracting.

This is a verbal warning.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

swpthleg said:


> You. Said. No. More. Emoticons.
> 
> It is distracting.
> 
> This is a verbal warning.


Technically that's a written warning. I dunno if you heard but I'm Kanto's new morality body guard, and even though you could beat me up, Rocket Fists is _my_ body guard, and I think he could take you. The emoticons stay. :thumbsup:


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

khoveraki said:


> Technically that's a written warning. I dunno if you heard but I'm Kanto's new morality body guard, and even though you could beat me up, Rocket Fists is _my_ body guard, and I think he could take you. The emoticons stay. :thumbsup:


I've asked him three times, and he's agreed three times, to leave the emoticons out, if he must post titles.

It's a matter of principle at this point.

Rocket Fists cannot withstand my charge and swarm.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

*:thumbsup: Principle*

I don't even know how to put the emoticons in the title!


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> I don't even know how to put the emoticons in the title!


It's the emoticons below Post Icons


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

*Help*



HitOrGetHit said:


> It's the emoticons below Post Icons


Thanks for the help!


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Thanks for the help!


Yeah now Swp will kill you both and me for telling you...

*Runs and hides* :confused05:


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

It doesn't matter. If it makes you happy, go to town.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Go to Town*

Doesn't everyone do that in some way or another?


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## TheAxeMurderer (Oct 27, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> Doesn't everyone do that in some way or another?


...what do you even mean by that?


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*What I meant*

Going to town!


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

That's the most annoying part of the M1-Strikeforce agreement. That dumbass clause about Fedor and Gegard. What's the point of it all?


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Grouping Gegard and Fedor together makes allot of sense, for M1, the fighters and for the fans. M1 would obviously only promote 1 fight instead of two (saves money), the fighters would know that interest would be super high, and the fans would see a very good and packed card.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> Grouping Gegard and Fedor together makes allot of sense, for M1, the fighters and for the fans. M1 would obviously only promote 1 fight instead of two (saves money), the fighters would know that interest would be super high, and the fans would see a very good and packed card.


 that's all sunshine and lollipops indeed. But what if Fedor gets hurt?? Or what if he continues on his 2 fight a year schedule and Gegard wants to fight more?? He is forced to fight elsewhere and not defend his SF title??


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

alizio said:


> that's all sunshine and lollipops indeed. But what if Fedor gets hurt?? Or what if he continues on his 2 fight a year schedule and Gegard wants to fight more?? He is forced to fight elsewhere and not defend his SF title??


If fedor gets hurt and can no longer fight or will be off for an extended period of time then im sure that Gegard can fight without. If Gegard wants to fight more then he is more than welcome to fight against other orgs and even other sports.

This deal is far less restrictive than UFC's where they can only fight against UFC fighters. 

Dont fool yourself kid, no deal is ever sunshine and lillipops. Name me one fighter with a S&L contract, there is always some disadvantages and advantages but as far as I can tell Gegard's contract is pretty good.


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