# UFC vs. Strikeforce



## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

SF HW > UFC HW
SF LHW = UFC LHW
SF MW < UFC MW
SF WW = UFC WW
SF LW < UFC LW

That is my diagram of how I think the divisions stack up against each other, NOT which champion I think would win. If it were done that way, SF would win every bout but LW. 

If it werent for the MW division being so low I would say SF has the exact same caliber fighters as the UFC. Their HW division is tons better. I could see any of their champions beating any of the UFC champions, minus Gilbert beating BJ Penn. Thats it.

Discuss and vote.:thumbsup:


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

UFC WW = SF WW? really?


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## Jimdon (Aug 27, 2008)

kind of an odd thread, but ill put my two cents in

HW= Fedor vs Lesnar- too unpredictable, see any of the million threads about this.

LHW= Machida vs Mousasi- I would have to give this to Machida, but again, very unpredictable

MW= Shields vs Silva- Shields gets his shit pushed in

WW= Diaz/Zaromskis vs GSP- GSP beats either of them at this point IMO

LW= Penn vs Melendez- Penn wins anywhere he wants.

Thats just the champs, and honestly this is the only format Strikeforce could be competitive in, if you faced off the top five or ten fighters in each weightclass, Strikeforce wouldn't have the depth to compete.

UFC has the bigger roster and alot of the Strikeforce fighters are UFC castoffs. If Strikeforce continues to grow the way they are now, this could be way more competitive in a year or two.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

Stokes said:


> SF HW > UFC HW
> SF LHW = UFC LHW
> SF MW < UFC MW
> SF WW = UFC WW
> ...


SF LHW=UFC LHW:confused03:
SF WW=UFC Welterweight:confused03:

You think there Welter weight Champ can beat GSP?:confused03:

I disagree. I think every division in the UFC is better than SF's divisions overall.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

I am pretty sure this was discussed plenty before, but I dont agree with you that SF champions would win everyone but LHW...


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

I would take the top 5 fighters from any division in StrikeForce besides the MW division up against the top 5 in the UFC any day. The HW division especially would own the UFC's. Hands down.

I believe that sometimes the only reason people are so up on the UFC being the best is that is all they watch, and are used to hearing it all the time. You have become brainwashed IMO, and need to actually learn more about the fighters from SF before you judge.

Jake Shields has a MUCH MORE impressive resume than Anderson Silva. Check it out before you think Silva would "push his shit in"...

SF TOP HW

Fedor
Overeem
Werdum
Rogers
Silva

UFC TOP HW

Lesnar
Mir
JDS
Nog
Velasquez

Granted, it depends on who is matched with who but I think SF would win the majority of the fights.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

There are a few big name stars in Strikeforce, but I think the UFC's got far more depth in basically every division. The only one that's up for contention is the HW division for me. You've got Lesnar, Mir, Nog, JDS, Velasquez and Carwin for the UFC compared with Fedor, Overeem, Werdum, Rogers and Silva for Strikeforce. Pretty even that I'd say.


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## Ivan (Feb 24, 2007)

I always liked the underdog more then the favorite, so i would say Strikeforce .. but since they have people like Fedor Dan Mousasi and many others i would be really careful by calling them a underdog.. 

Financially UFC is probably untouchable.. but i can only be sure if all these orgs would let me in their secrets of how much they really have..


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Stokes said:


> I would take the top 5 fighters from any division in StrikeForce besides the MW division up against the top 5 in the UFC any day. The HW division especially would own the UFC's. Hands down.
> 
> I believe that sometimes the only reason people are so up on the UFC being the best is that is all they watch, and are used to hearing it all the time. You have become brainwashed IMO, and need to actually learn more about the fighters from SF before you judge.
> 
> ...


So I guess anyone that votes the UFC is brainwashed, I guess you have your answer then... SF wins because you say so.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

diablo5597 said:


> SF LHW=UFC LHW:confused03:
> SF WW=UFC Welterweight:confused03:
> 
> You think there Welter weight Champ can beat GSP?:confused03:
> ...


That pretty much sums it up :thumbsup:

The only devision SF has wich can compete against the big UFC is the HW devision (And even those would lose in my mind). SF can't compete with the UFC..not yet! 

Mousasi would not be the LHW champion!
Shields would not even come close to be the champ at MW! 
Melendez beating The Prodigy no way!
Diaz vs. GSP lol

But one guy wins Fedor!!!


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Spec0688 said:


> So I guess anyone that votes the UFC is brainwashed, I guess you have your answer then... SF wins because you say so.


I didnt say EVERYONE who thinks this way is brainwashed. I actually said I think sometimes people can becomee brainwashed by what they hear all the time while watching the UFC I might add.. (UFC IS TOP ORG) blah blah. 

If you took it the wrong way and thought I meant you were brainwashed than I apologize...wasnt trying to make those allegations at all.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Shields has a 'much more impressive' resume than Silva? Seriously? Shields has notable wins over Miller, Daley, Condit, Okami, Thompson and Lawler. That's hardly a mega impressive list of top tier fighters, especially when you consider that Silva's beaten Franklin twice, Henderson, Marquardt, Cote, Leben, Leites and Griffin. That's a better list of wins AFAIC.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Danm2501 said:


> Shields has a 'much more impressive' resume than Silva? Seriously? Shields has notable wins over Miller, Daley, Condit, Okami, Thompson and Lawler. That's hardly a mega impressive list of top tier fighters, especially when you consider that Silva's beaten Franklin twice, Henderson, Marquardt, Cote, Leben, Leites and Griffin. That's a better list of wins AFAIC.


Chris Leben is an impressive win? Seriously?


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## Jimdon (Aug 27, 2008)

Stokes said:


> SF TOP HW
> 
> Fedor
> Overeem
> ...


Velasquez > Silva (Silva would get ragdolled)
Nog > Rogers (LOL)
JDS > Werdum (obviously)
Mir > Overeem (you could debate this one)
Lesnar ? Fedor

Hate to shatter your reality but the rest of the divisions wouldn't be this close.



> Chris Leben is an impressive win? Seriously?


He was undefeated in the UFC at the time, and I give him a good shot vs Lawler any day.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Stokes said:


> I didnt say EVERYONE who thinks this way is brainwashed. I actually said I think sometimes people can becomee brainwashed by what they hear all the time while watching the UFC I might add.. (UFC IS TOP ORG) blah blah.


But Stokes my friend you can't argue that! Because it's a fact that the UFC is better. Only guys who hate this organization would say anything else!


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Jimdon said:


> Velasquez > Silva (Silva would get ragdolled)
> Nog > Rogers (LOL)
> JDS > Werdum (obviously)
> Mir > Overeem (you could debate this one)
> ...


Did you not see the part of my post where I sad matchups would be key? And first of all I disagree with some of those. Werdum/JDS would be a much better fight 2nd time around I dont see JDS catching him like that again.. Nog wouldnt beat Rogers (LOL) easily at all. If Brett could keep it standing he would knock Nog out for sure but I would rather see Rogers fight JDS and Nog fight Werdum..

So lets do it like this:

Nog vs. Werdum
Rogers vs. JDS
Overeem vs. Lesnar
Mir vs. Fedor
Silva vs. Velasquez

Looks a lot different now doesnt it?

And to answer to Bobby's post, I do NOT, and repeat, DO NOT, hate the UFC by any means. I love watching the UFC, just as I do Strikeforce. I am an MMA fan though, not a UFC fan.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

The nature of the win was more impressive than the name, but Leben was seen as a real top quality prospect before that fight. He was on a 6 fight win streak and unbeaten in the UFC, with wins over Cote and Rivera. He's not a top tier fighter, but he's not far off the level of Shields' most impressive victories tbf.

Not really. Nog would beat Werdum, JDS would beat Rogers, Lesnar would beat Overeem and I'd back Velasquez to beat Silva. Only win for Strikeforce comes from Fedor.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Stokes said:


> And to answer to Bobby's post, I do NOT, and repeat, DO NOT, hate the UFC by any means. I love watching the UFC, just as I do Strikeforce. I am an MMA fan though, not a UFC fan.


I know that Stokes^^ I didn't say that you hate the UFC, it's just if you think that SF devisions are better than you either hate the UFC or you are blind  

Because it's actually a fact! SF can't be there where the UFC is right now, just look when they started. It's just not fair to compare those two organizations with each other.


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## Jimdon (Aug 27, 2008)

Stokes said:


> Did you not see the part of my post where I sad matchups would be key?


Why does Strikeforce deserve to get the best matchups in any competition?



> .Nog wouldnt beat Rogers (LOL) easily at all. If Brett could keep it standing he would knock Nog out for sure


For sure eh, well i know who ill be asking for predictions on the next card... not you.

So lets do it like this:



> Nog vs. Werdum
> Rogers vs. JDS
> Overeem vs. Lesnar
> Mir vs. Fedor
> ...


No, it doesn't, Nog would beat Werdum, probably on the feet, JDS is an undefeated kickboxer and Rogers has no technique, Lesnar vs Overeem would look alot like Lesnar/Mir 2, and Silva is the weakest of all of them IMO, and Velasquez is a beast.

Thanks for playing though.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Jimdon said:


> kind of an odd thread, but ill put my two cents in
> 
> HW= Fedor vs Lesnar- too unpredictable, see any of the million threads about this.
> 
> ...


Good post.


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## UFC on VHS (Dec 16, 2008)

Strikeforce is good and I love it but UFC is miles ahead.


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## Ivan (Feb 24, 2007)

I've heard this story before.. but where.. o yea Pride FC was better then UFC and then Pride was bought and killed .. maybe the same or similar could happen to the UFC .. would could should means nothing until they fight each other..


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

UFC easy, is no contest, Strike force is a bunch of part timers putting on a show, and womens MMA is not something I want to watch, they should know there place in the kitchen.

Where as UFC is starting to attract the best fighters in the world, I rate WEC above strikeforce.


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## Toroian (Jan 3, 2009)

Yes SF has 4 or 5 good HWs but UFC has 10-15 good HWs and its the same in any weight class its the same with DREAM they have a few good ones but UFC has far more this allows better comp and better match ups and this always gives you the question of are they only good because they not fighting the best ? e.g overeem he is ranked high in HW but has not beat anyone great in mma in a long time

oh and u cant have overeem in SF he not had a fight they in years....


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## Ivan (Feb 24, 2007)

Wow what a objective statement..


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

And your just going off the Champs thats it??? UFC has everyone Else....

There Champs dont match up, I see brock winning, machida beating Mousasi, Anderson is just obvious, GSP, Obvious.... Bj Penn... And Other then StrikeForces champs they don't have any challengers.... UFC has a line in most....

Scott Coker, says there not trying to Challenge the Beast in UFC, just trying to put good fights together... 

Lets dip in a little bit of UFC's fighters JUST in LHW on the top of my head....

Machida, Shogun, Rampage, Rashad, Jone Jones, Thiago Silva, Cotoure, Forrest Griffin, Rich Franklin, Chuck Liddell, Tito Ortiz.... And the other Champs like GSP, Bj, Brock, Nog and Mir, Carwin, Cain, Kongo, JDS....

Those names alone i just mentioned is more then there WHOLE organization.... 

StrikeForce.... More Talent? I haven't even got into the other Divisions....


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

the op is so biased its no wonder this was started in the ufc thread because his opinion would deservedly get negative replies.

how can you say that the ufc and sf have equal welterweight divisions when you can barely name 5 of the guys in that weight class:confused03: much less rate them in any top ten list.

sf middleweight champ is really a welterweight in disguise and i notice that when someone put up the competition silva has faced vs. shields you immediately mentioned chris leben when i would put him up above most of the guys shields has beaten. its obvious who has faced the better competition:sarcastic12: because rich franklin is a can, lutter's a bum, cote has no chin or heart, and lietes has no ground game:bye02:

im not gonna even touch the light heavyweight nonsense because that is the most troll worthy of your entire opinion. Man i love mousasai but even with him them being equal to the ufc lhw division is too much much of a stretch to be taken seriously.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Yeah LHW and WW are nowhere near the UFC's.


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## Magog (Jan 20, 2008)

*Gentleman, does anyone understand middle ground and being reasonable? In case my post is to long just read the bold part. *

If Strike Force where to compete champion for champion, it would do alot better than if it had compete as a whole.

Let us set the rules. If Strike Force had to compete for 2 to 3 ppvs, using different fighters, with no repeats against vs the ufc how would it do if the 2 to 3 events where graded as a whole.

the events will be 8 fighters just for example 

Fedor vs Brock... meaning win or lose the ufc or Strike Force would not be able to book Fedor or Brock again after this fight.
*
Strike Force does have it's front runners that might be able to beat some of the ufcs. Ranking means jack shit once your in a cage with someone. Brett Rogers proved that already. So assuming there are 16 to 24 fights... I'd assume Stike Force would get Molly wapped.
5-8 wins tops. The ufc just has deeper roasters to book, and Strike force would be forced to us to many B and C level fighters.*


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

SF Hw really only has Fedor. Otherwise there division depth is way weaker than UFC. Werdum was 2-2 in UFc and hes probably there second best fighter. Fedor without a doubt though best HW ever.

LHW they got Mousassi and.... Babalu? haha UFC owns this weight class Gegard needs to go to UFC if we really want to see how good he is. There just isnt enough depth in SF to measure how good he is.

MW Anderson Silva would kill Jake Shields. Jake Shields has a record padded with guys who couldnt even get into the UFC and had a hell of a time with frickin Mayhem miller and almost got subbed by him.

WW Here its not even close Nick Diaz wasnt even very good in the UFC and the division has improved immenily since he left. I like the prospect Tyrone Woodley in SF though really good fighter with potential. 

LW: I think melendez and thompson are both good fighters and would do well in UFC LW division just not good against Penn but nobody really would. I think they could win a lot of fights in UFC lw division though. But really all they got is those 2 guys and maybe Aoki if hes there.

UFC>SF easily


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Stokes said:


> SF HW > UFC HW
> SF LHW = UFC LHW
> SF MW < UFC MW
> SF WW = UFC WW
> ...



You think Jake f***ing Shields could beat Anderson Silva? WTF


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## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

Actually I like Shields odds, he knows he can't fight standing. He wouldn't try there like Hendo did.

He's really a beast on the ground so i give him a chance. He has fought and beaten Dangerous strikers before, Daley?.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

UFC > SF in every division. The only fighter that makes it close is Fedor.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

UFC wins hands down, regardless of Fedor, Gegard et al.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Nefilim777 said:


> UFC wins hands down, regardless of Fedor, Gegard et al.


signed :thumbsup:


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## Johnni G (Dec 2, 2009)

Fedor vs Brock. Jesus that would be awesome.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Nefilim777 said:


> UFC wins hands down, regardless of Fedor, Gegard et al.


Agreed. It's pretty clear who has the better fighters and who is the better promotion as a whole.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

No offense but this is the most obvious poll I've ever seen. Strikeforce is known for picking up the fighters that UFC cuts. I expect nothing less than a completely one sided landslide.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Toxic said:


> You think Jake f***ing Shields could beat Anderson Silva? WTF



LOL! :laugh::laugh: Seriously


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

The best way to think about it, is to think how would the guys from SF do if they entered the UFC. 

I don't think it would be like Pride, where a lot of guys stuck around, I think some of the good talents from SF would last, but most would be washouts.


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## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

I'm sorry I mean - I really like Strikeforce because I love all MMA and Strikeforce put on some awesome fights but when you look at it, last Strikeforce MMA event, headline was Cung Le vs Scott Smith, neither of whom would make a dent in the uFC.

UFC easily but I love Strikeforce too.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Hawndo said:


> I'm sorry I mean - I really like Strikeforce because I love all MMA and Strikeforce put on some awesome fights but when you look at it, last Strikeforce MMA event, headline was Cung Le vs Scott Smith, neither of whom would make a dent in the uFC.
> 
> UFC easily but I love Strikeforce too.



Hey i was there live at that StrikeForce lol


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## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

Machida Karate said:


> Hey i was there live at that StrikeForce lol


Like I said, still love Strikeforce cause of the awesome fights, just UFC is a higher class.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Hawndo said:


> Like I said, still love Strikeforce cause of the awesome fights, just UFC is a higher class.



way higher, thats why i need to go.... Its 500 for the cheapest seats.... 60 for SF and it was 45 for WEC


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

UFC vs SF right now is really a tough fight, way tougher than people think. 

*HW: Fedor vs Lesnar* - Fedor beats anyone in the UFC, give me a break. We all know that Lesnar gets his TDs stuffed and gets knocked out. Randy could stuff his take downs, Fedor sure as hell could. Standing, JDS is a threat like Arlovski was but JDS couldn't shuck Fedor's throws.

SF 1, UFC 0

*LHW: Mousasi vs Lyoto* - Mousasi likely beats Lyoto but would probably get beaten by Shogun. Stylistically speaking, Mousasi's standup is lightning fast and would have a great game plan for Lyoto. Shogun however would be Mousasi's toughest standup battle to date. If Lyoto is champ, Mousasi wins, if Shogun is champ, he likely wins. Lyoto is the current champ so we go with him.

SF 2, UFC 0

*MW: A. Silva vs Shields* - This fight is A LOT closer than people think. Daley is a vicious, furious striker and he was finished easily. I know it's not the best comparison but Shields rarely ever gets hit and he's one of the best wrestlers in MMA. IMO, a 3 round fight and Shields wins by UD, a 5 round fight Shields gets TKO'd.

SF 2, UFC 1

*WW: Diaz vs GSP* - Diaz has the best BJJ of anyone GSP has ever faced (yes, this includes BJ) and his standup is way improved. We'll have to see the Zaromskis fight to see JUST how improved it is. Diaz would give GSP one of his toughest fights to date but GSP would take it in the end. Wouldn't be surprised to see GSP in trouble a few times though. 

SF 2, UFC 2

*LW: Melendez vs Penn* - This would be an AMAZING exciting fight and IMO Melendez would beat everyone else in the LW division (except maybe Maynard, tough to call with Maynard's style). But Penn of course would beat Melendez, probably by decision because Melendez is a tough, tough guy.

SF 2, UFC 3

Women's division

*LW: Cyborg vs * - Cyborg would easily destroy any of the non-existent female fighters in the UFC as Cyborg is the top female fighter at 145lbs.

SF 3, UFC 3.


See? It's a tie.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> UFC vs SF right now is really a tough fight, way tougher than people think.
> 
> *HW: Fedor vs Lesnar* - Fedor beats anyone in the UFC, give me a break. We all know that Lesnar gets his TDs stuffed and gets knocked out. Randy could stuff his take downs, Fedor sure as hell could. Standing, JDS is a threat like Arlovski was but JDS couldn't shuck Fedor's throws.
> 
> ...


Stokes? get off of his account.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

diablo5597 said:


> Stokes? get off of his account.




Uhh...?




Good counter-argument bro.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> UFC vs SF right now is really a tough fight, way tougher than people think.
> 
> *HW: Fedor vs Lesnar* - Fedor beats anyone in the UFC, give me a break. We all know that Lesnar gets his TDs stuffed and gets knocked out. Randy could stuff his take downs, Fedor sure as hell could. Standing, JDS is a threat like Arlovski was but JDS couldn't shuck Fedor's throws.
> 
> ...





Not only would all the title holders in UFC beat the Strikeforce, but were not JUST talking about the Title holders....

UFC vs Strikeforce.... They have no challengers UFC has everyone its not a argument....


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> UFC vs SF right now is really a tough fight, way tougher than people think.
> 
> *HW: Fedor vs Lesnar* - Fedor beats anyone in the UFC, give me a break. We all know that Lesnar gets his TDs stuffed and gets knocked out. Randy could stuff his take downs, Fedor sure as hell could. Standing, JDS is a threat like Arlovski was but JDS couldn't shuck Fedor's throws.
> 
> ...


Some comments. 

Fedor vs Lesnar is closer then you think. Fedor wouldn't stuff Lesnar's takedowns. I still think Fedor wins though.

I think Lyoto would beat Mousasi. Mousasi has been impressive but he hasn't fought a top notch fighter yet. 

Silva vs Shields isn't close. For one, Daley isn't on the same level striking as Silva and he is a fish on the ground. If Silva doesn't knock Shields out I bet he submits him.

GSP destroys Diaz. Diaz has improved but like most others in SF he isn't fighting top notch competition. This fight isn't even close.

Penn absolutely destroys Melendez. Hell Guida gave Melendez a run for his money. This fight would be easier then any of Penn's last 4 fights.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Machida Karate said:


> *Not only would all the title holders in UFC beat the Strikeforce,* but were not JUST talking about the Title holders....
> 
> UFC vs Strikeforce.... They have no challengers UFC has everyone its not a argument....


Are you kidding me? Lyoto wouldn't beat Mousasi. Fedor would beat Lesnar. Diaz could possibly beat GSP, depends on how the fight goes. Remember, GSP doesn't have an AWESOME rock hard chin, Diaz usually exposes that his boxing is off the charts. On the ground it goes to Diaz any day. The only fights I would maybe give you is MW but thats a maybe and I do believe BJ Penn would beat Melendez.

You sound like your on the UFC's nuts really hard. Give them some air bro..


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

this ridiculous thread needs to die already :sarcastic05:

just put the top five in each weight class up against each other and this whole thread gets blown out the water.

@khov-im inclined to think that mousasi would lose to lyoto. his style is less aggressive and it would not match up well with a guy like lyoto.

edit-dont get sidetracked with champ vs. champ, the op went by the whole div and stated he would take sf over ufc in every weight except middleweight- can you honestly back up that statement?


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

420atalon said:


> Some comments.
> 
> Fedor vs Lesnar is closer then you think. Fedor wouldn't stuff Lesnar's takedowns. I still think Fedor wins though.
> 
> ...


Lesnar has only ever impressively taken down Herring and Mir, And Fedor has reversed Greco world champions and has thrown better wrestlers. Not to mention nearly a decade of ***** opponents.

And Lyoto has never beaten anyone in the way that Mousasi regularly beats people. But this fight is pure speculation, post your breakdown please.

And Diaz has the best BJJ at LW and great power standing so how could you write him off? And to say he hasn't faced any competition, you really have your head in the sand.


The Melendez vs Guida fight was A LONG time ago. The Melendez of today would run through Guida.


To the guy above me, you think Mousasi has a less aggressive style than Lyoto? lmfao c'mon, this thread is a joke because of the posters in it, not because of the original debate.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Thelegend said:


> this ridiculous thread needs to die already :sarcastic05:
> 
> just put the top five in each weight class up against each other and this whole thread gets blown out the water.
> 
> @khov-im inclined to think that mousasi would lose to lyoto. his style is less aggressive and it would not match up well with a guy like lyoto.


Does it? This whole thread gets blown out of the water? The only reason people believe that the UFC has the top tier fighters is because the UFC is more popular and fans see those guys fight a lot more than the fighters in SF. Thats it..


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Lesnar has only ever impressively taken down Herring and Mir, And Fedor has reversed Greco world champions and has thrown better wrestlers. Not to mention nearly a decade of ***** opponents.
> 
> And Lyoto has never beaten anyone in the way that Mousasi regularly beats people. But this fight is pure speculation, post your breakdown please.
> 
> ...




Dude serious Diaz vs GSP? Sanchez beat Diaz...

You really dont think he would beat him.... Even if that was true like i said your only talking about 5 guys out of a whole organization...... And the champs dont even match good




Stokes said:


> Does it? This whole thread gets blown out of the water? The only reason people believe that the UFC has the top tier fighters is because the UFC is more popular and fans see those guys fight a lot more than the fighters in SF. Thats it..


That and 90% of SF are UFC wash outs


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

Stokes-{I would take the top 5 fighters from any division in StrikeForce besides the MW division up against the top 5 in the UFC any day. The HW division especially would own the UFC's. Hands down.}

^back it up and show me how they don't get blown out of the water


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Machida Karate said:


> Dude serious Diaz vs GSP? Sanchez beat Diaz...
> 
> You really dont think he would beat him.... Even if that was true like i said your only talking about 5 guys out of a whole organization......


Dude, get your head out of your ass and start watching Nick Diaz fights. When was the last fight you saw? 3 years ago?

He hasnt even been close to getting beat lately and everyone knows that the judging in the UFC is biased as hell. Diaz should have won more fights in the UFC than he did. Besides, his boxing has improved even more and his BJJ is the same level as BJ Penn's. Thats it..


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Machida Karate said:


> Dude serious Diaz vs GSP? Sanchez beat Diaz...
> 
> You really dont think he would beat him.... Even if that was true like i said your only talking about 5 guys out of a whole organization......




Since the Sanchez fight, Diaz has become an undefeated boxer and a BJJ black belt under Cesar Gracie. But yeah GSP would just beat him, because GSP has never been submitted (Hughes vs GSP I) or knocked out (GSP vs Serra I).


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Stokes said:


> Does it? This whole thread gets blown out of the water? The only reason people believe that the UFC has the top tier fighters is because the UFC is more popular and fans see those guys fight a lot more than the fighters in SF. Thats it..





Stokes said:


> Dude, get your head out of your ass and start watching Nick Diaz fights. When was the last fight you saw? 3 years ago?
> 
> He hasnt even been close to getting beat lately and everyone knows that the judging in the UFC is biased as hell. Diaz should have won more fights in the UFC than he did. Besides, his boxing has improved even more and his BJJ is the same level as BJ Penn's. Thats it..



THATS CAUSE HE ISNT FIGHTING UFC FIGHTERS.... Yeah he can beat cans really good... His best guy has been Scott Smith since....

Yeah he looks good lately anyway, BUT GSP?! IM DONE this is nonsense


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Machida Karate said:


> THATS CAUSE HE ISNT FIGHTING UFC FIGHTERS.... Yeah he can beat cans really good... His best guy has been Scott Smith....
> 
> Yeah he looks good, BUT GSP?! IM DONE


Did you see my post? 


And yeah, the best guy he's beaten is Scott Smith. I guess Frank Shamrock and Gomi don't exist.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Did you see my post?
> 
> 
> And yeah, the best guy he's beaten is Scott Smith. I guess Frank Shamrock and Gomi don't exist.



Do u really need me to tell you who GSP beat.... Like u serious.... Frank? Gomi?

I said he looks good but against GSP hurts to even talk about


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> Did you see my post?
> 
> 
> And yeah, the best guy he's beaten is Scott Smith. I guess Frank Shamrock and Gomi don't exist.


He's obviously too hung up on the UFC so he is blind to truth and ignores good posts like that.

LMAO

When Nick Diaz beat Gomi, he was the #1 LW fighter in the world. Frank Shamrock is also a lot bigger than Nick naturally, and he still got tooled.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> UFC vs SF right now is really a tough fight, way tougher than people think.
> 
> *HW: Fedor vs Lesnar* - Fedor beats anyone in the UFC, give me a break. We all know that Lesnar gets his TDs stuffed and gets knocked out. Randy could stuff his take downs, Fedor sure as hell could. Standing, JDS is a threat like Arlovski was but JDS couldn't shuck Fedor's throws.
> 
> ...


:confused03:


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Life B Ez said:


> :confused03:


Good post, nice argument.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

I feel like im living in the twilight zone... Your arguing Strikeforce has more talent then UFC, u made every person i know laugh


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

Thelegend said:


> Stokes-{I would take the top 5 fighters from any division in StrikeForce besides the MW division up against the top 5 in the UFC any day. The HW division especially would own the UFC's. Hands down.}
> 
> ^back it up and show me how they don't get blown out of the water


edit-in case you missed it the first time, lol


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Machida Karate said:


> I feel like im living in the twilight zone... Your arguing Strikeforce has more talent then UFC, u made every person i know laugh


Good. And your retarded avatar and extreme nuthugging of the UFC made every person _I know_ laugh.



Thelegend said:


> edit-in case you missed it the first time, lol


Which divisions? All?


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

just the lw,lhw,ww will do thank you.

just for the record im trying to not just throw out flame towards your opinion. i like sf but with regards to the heavywieght division if sf did not have fedor sf would not be anywhere near ufc imo.

edit-lol, now you got me watching some nick diaz fights to see why you think he has a chance vs. gsp


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Thelegend said:


> just the lw,lhw,ww will do thank you.
> 
> just for the record im trying to not just throw out flame towards your opinion. i like sf but with regards to the heavywieght division if sf did not have fedor sf would not be anywhere near ufc imo.


Wow. A 4 division breakdown? If I didnt think you would just write it off I would be very happy to do so...maybe I will just add my breakdown to the O.P.


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## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

Stokes said:


> You sound like your on the UFC's nuts really hard. Give them some air bro..


He may or may not have the a hold of the UFC's nuts, but you are clearly smoking crack. Even Scott Coker would probably disagree with you if he was being honest.



Stokes said:


> He's obviously too hung up on the UFC so he is blind to truth and ignores good posts like that.


Funny you say that, because you guys were to biased to notice the part where he said Scott Smith was the best fighter he's beat LATELY


> When Nick Diaz beat Gomi, he was the #1 LW fighter in the world. Frank Shamrock is also a lot bigger than Nick naturally, and he still got tooled.


 Frank Shamrock has looked horrible lately and is clearly over the hill not to mention outclassed by modern MMA fighter.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

leifdawg said:


> He may or may not have the a hold of the UFC's nuts, *but you are clearly smoking crack*. Even Scott Coker would probably disagree with you if he was being honest.
> 
> Funny you say that, because you guys were to biased to notice the part where he said Scott Smith was the best fighter he's beat LATELY
> Frank Shamrock has looked horrible lately and is clearly over the hill not to mention outclassed by modern MMA fighter.


I always enjoyed weed much more...

But on topic, you said it yourself, best fighter he beat "lately" because the Gomi fight was 3 years ago? And Scott Smith is no slouch none of you UFC fanboys are giving him any credit and IDK why? Everyone thought Terry Martin was the future! until he got KO'd by Smith.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Stokes said:


> Are you kidding me? Lyoto wouldn't beat Mousasi. Fedor would beat Lesnar. Diaz could possibly beat GSP, depends on how the fight goes. Remember, GSP doesn't have an AWESOME rock hard chin, Diaz usually exposes that his boxing is off the charts. On the ground it goes to Diaz any day. The only fights I would maybe give you is MW but thats a maybe and I do believe BJ Penn would beat Melendez.
> 
> You sound like your on the UFC's nuts really hard. Give them some air bro..


I won't touch Lesnar/Fedor we haven't seen enough of Lesnar but based on raw power he is definatly the biggest threat in the world to Fedor today and if Fedor is beatable (and I think he is) Brock has the best chance of doing it.

Mousasi beat Machida? What would you like to base this on his destruction of Babalu was impressive but Babalu would be a gatekeeper at best in the UFC. Maybe its his competitive fight against the couldn't make it in the UFC assasin Sokky? He looked damn good against Hunt and in the MW division but personally I hardly think he has looked like an elite level LHW. There is no doubt he is a solid fighter with limitless potential but he isn't there yet.

Diaz could beat GSP, yeah sure, GSP has been rocked and hurt standing but those were by one good hard right on the button shot, Diaz doesn't do one punch he does 163 rabbit punches, problem is he'll be on his back counting punches with his face by the time he gets to 3, Diaz is not strong enough to stop the TD (Penn has 10X the TD defense, Alves is twice as strong) . Diaz has a great ground game but it is not even in the same stratosphere as a guy like BJ Penn. Nick Diaz gets his brains beat in 10 times out of 10.

MW, Shields doesn't stand a chance, his wrestling is mediocre, he was scared to strike with Mayhem, Silva is not only massive for MW (Shields is a WW and not a particularly large one.) but also a Black Belt in BJJ, now I have long considered Anderson Silva overated but give credit were credit is due Shields would not be able to take him down and if he tried to clinch for the TD like he did against Miller he ends up Franklin'd, if he manages to get him down he ends up Luttered, his striking is marginal at best so if he stands he ends up Leben'd.

Don't even get me started on what Sherk, Diego, Ken Flo would do to Melendez never mind BJ, he is a less athletic, weaker version of Diego Sanchez.


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> Lesnar has only ever impressively taken down Herring and Mir, And Fedor has reversed Greco world champions and has thrown better wrestlers. Not to mention nearly a decade of ***** opponents.
> 
> And Lyoto has never beaten anyone in the way that Mousasi regularly beats people. But this fight is pure speculation, post your breakdown please.
> 
> ...


Lesnar impressively threw Couture to the ground a couple times, he was pretty tentative in that fight and happy to strike with Couture. Fedor has good wrestling but if Lesnar gets his hands on him then he is going to go to the ground. Fedor will be trying to knock Lesnar out, not lean on him and survive like Couture was.

Mousasi is a well rounded fighter and it would be a close fight. I see Machida giving him fits standing up though and I think Machida would be able to counter his takedown attempts. Machida would beat him the same way he is going to beat Shogun in their rematch. Machida's wins over Silva and Evans were more impressive then Mousasi's recent can crunching.

The best competition Diaz has fought were Sherk and Sanchez back in his UFC days... His submissions aren't near as special as you think they are. He has what, 1 submission win since his UFC days...

Also maybe Melendez also looks a lot better now because there isn't that much competition. Thompson has been his biggest challenge and he lost to Guida... Melendez would beat Guida but he has nothing on Penn.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

I cant believe were arguing Anderson Silva vs Shields.....


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Stokes said:


> Did you not see the part of my post where I sad matchups would be key? And first of all I disagree with some of those. Werdum/JDS would be a much better fight 2nd time around I dont see JDS catching him like that again.. Nog wouldnt beat Rogers (LOL) easily at all. If Brett could keep it standing he would knock Nog out for sure but I would rather see Rogers fight JDS and Nog fight Werdum..
> 
> So lets do it like this:
> 
> ...


 I hate when I read this, why do you have to be a "UFC" fan and not an "MMA" fan to think the UFC has the best fighters, the two undisputed top organizations in the world were Pride and the UFC most of the top fighters end up in the UFC and everyone is stuck on the couple that get away. Why? It does not make me a TUF noob to say Forrest is a great fighter, it does not make me any less of a fan of the sport of MMA to say the top 3 WW's in the UFC would destroy any WW outside the UFC. Not to pick on you specifically but I get mildly annoyed when I here shit that sounds elitist like picking somebody from outside the UFC to beat a UFC champ makes you more of a fan.


----------



## Ruckus (Oct 2, 2009)

I love the fact that SF is growing and putting together a nice roster with its stable of fighters. However in the question of who wins, the UFC has a talent pool which is just too deep to even debate who wins. Let's just look at top ten rankings...
HW- UFC 6 > SF 4 (2 of which should not even count)
LHW- UFC 8 > SF 2
MW- UFC 6 > SF 3
WW- UFC 9 > SF 1
LW- UFC 6 > SF 2 (several top fighters in neither promotion)

I know that top ten lists are debatable however this is the average of 5 rankings. If you go even deeper into the top 20 the disparity gets even greater in favor of the UFC. 

A few top names does not make them even close. The up side for them is they are trying and will close the gap somewhat.


----------



## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Toxic said:


> I won't touch Lesnar/Fedor we haven't seen enough of Lesnar but based on raw power he is definatly the biggest threat in the world to Fedor today and if Fedor is beatable (and I think he is) Brock has the best chance of doing it.
> 
> Mousasi beat Machida? What would you like to base this on his destruction of Babalu was impressive but Babalu would be a gatekeeper at best in the UFC. Maybe its his competitive fight against the couldn't make it in the UFC assasin Sokky? He looked damn good against Hunt and in the MW division but personally I hardly think he has looked like an elite level LHW. There is no doubt he is a solid fighter with limitless potential but he isn't there yet.
> 
> ...





420atalon said:


> Lesnar impressively threw Couture to the ground a couple times, he was pretty tentative in that fight and happy to strike with Couture. Fedor has good wrestling but if Lesnar gets his hands on him then he is going to go to the ground. Fedor will be trying to knock Lesnar out, not lean on him and survive like Couture was.
> 
> Mousasi is a well rounded fighter and it would be a close fight. I see Machida giving him fits standing up though and I think Machida would be able to counter his takedown attempts. Machida would beat him the same way he is going to beat Shogun in their rematch. Machida's wins over Silva and Evans were more impressive then Mousasi's recent can crunching.
> 
> ...


That no offense is one of the worst breakdowns I have seen in this thread.

This is in response to both above posts.

Fedor vs. Lesnar would NOT BE CLOSE. Fedor's ***** would negate Lesnars wrestling and standing obviously Fedor has the edge, who has Lesnar outstruck? Heath Herring? Even Brock admits that he does not want to fight Fedor right now and he is The UFC Heavyweight Champion? Gimme a break..

Mousasi vs. Machida - Out of all the bouts this would definitely be the closest..I see it actually mimicking the Shogun fight for the most part but Mousasi would get the decision (shogun won)

Shields vs. Silva - I dont care who gets Lutterd, Lebend, blah blah Shields has never been finished and has fought strikers just as good as Silva, Anderson is never an aggresor striking and you think Shields will attack? No, he will wait for Silva and take him down because we all know AS has shitty tdd..on the ground Shields has the advantage bar none..

GSP vs. Diaz - would be a great fight GSP would take nick down and work some GnP nothing Nick isnt used to, you compare this to nick losing to Diego and Sherk but I think you and I both know Nick has gotten a lot better since those fights, earning his black belt and going undefeated as a pro boxer, Khov was already so kind to share that in a previous post maybe you missed it? Standing Nick Diaz has the advantage and on the ground he does as well, Do I think Nick would beat GSP 10/10 no way but I think he has the skillset to beat him DEFINITELY.

Melendez vs. BJ Penn - No doubt, BJ Penn would win but comparing Melendez to Diego sanchez is just cruel, Melendez has much better wrestling and has heavier hands, diego might have more burst in his punches but at LW Melendez would beat him..and anyone else in that LW division besides BJ Penn.


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## EastonAssassin (Nov 5, 2009)

shields beating silva?!?!?

that's trolling at it's very best.raise01::thumb02:


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

Toxic said:


> I won't touch Lesnar/Fedor we haven't seen enough of Lesnar but based on raw power he is definatly the biggest threat in the world to Fedor today and if Fedor is beatable (and I think he is) Brock has the best chance of doing it.
> 
> Mousasi beat Machida? What would you like to base this on his destruction of Babalu was impressive but Babalu would be a gatekeeper at best in the UFC. Maybe its his competitive fight against the couldn't make it in the UFC assasin Sokky? He looked damn good against Hunt and in the MW division but personally I hardly think he has looked like an elite level LHW. There is no doubt he is a solid fighter with limitless potential but he isn't there yet.
> 
> ...


Great post!


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

diablo5597 said:


> Great post!


Really? I didnt think it was that great at all.



Toxic said:


> I hate when I read this, why do you have to be a "UFC" fan and not an "MMA" fan to think the UFC has the best fighters, the two undisputed top organizations in the world were Pride and the UFC most of the top fighters end up in the UFC and everyone is stuck on the couple that get away. Why? It does not make me a TUF noob to say Forrest is a great fighter, it does not make me any less of a fan of the sport of MMA to say the top 3 WW's in the UFC would destroy any WW outside the UFC. Not to pick on you specifically but I get mildly annoyed when I here shit that sounds elitist like picking somebody from outside the UFC to beat a UFC champ makes you more of a fan.


I wasnt trying to get the "elitist" tag thrown at me. I could care less really, I just like MMA it doesnt matter which org or what promotion or even fighters as much as the fights themselves..

You have to admit that there are just simply "UFC" fans though..especially on this forum.


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

I'm just glad there is now reasonable competition going at it, either one is fun to watch so mma fans come out ahead.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Stokes said:


> Shields vs. Silva - No, he will wait for Silva and take him down because we all know AS has shitty tdd..on the ground Shields has the advantage bar none.


Shields has borderline crappy takedowns, Silva would bash his face in with knees every time he went for a takedown.


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

Strikeforce top ten light heavy weight's
1) Gegard Mousasi [CHAMP](26-2-1) 
2) Dan Henderson (LHW & MW) 25 - 7 - 0
3) Renato "Babalu" Sobral (35-9)
4) Jeff Monson (HW & LHW)32 - 9 - 0
5) "King" Mo Lawal (HW & LHW)(5-0)
6) Mike Kyle 13 - 7 - 1
7) Rafael "Feijao" Cavalcante 8 - 2 - 0
8) Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou (6-4)
9) Mike Whitehead 24 - 7 - 0
10)Kevin "The Monster" Randleman 17 - 14 - 0

UFC top ten light heavy weights
1) Lyoto Machida [CHAMP]16 - 0 - 0
2) Mauricio "shogun" rua 18 - 4 - 0
3) Quinton Jackson 30 - 7 - 0
4) Rashad Evans 14 - 1 - 1
5) Forrest Griffin 17 - 6 - 0
6) Thiago silva 14 - 2 - 0
7) Antônio Rogério Nogueira 18 - 3 - 0
8) Jon Jones 9 - 1 - 0
9) Chuck liddell 21 - 7 - 0 
10) Tito Ortiz 15 - 7 - 1

There, in order to make up for sf lack of depth i even gave you some of the guys that don't fight at lhw usually....you can take any five from both in any match-up and you still have trouble getting sf two wins... How does strikeforce have better fighters in that weight class much less break even?


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

dudeabides said:


> I'm just glad there is now reasonable competition going at it, either one is fun to watch so mma fans come out ahead.



Agreed, the fact that this can be intelligently debated as a close competition lends to the fact that SF is becoming a major competitor.


Not to mention the revolutions SF is giving us. Free world class title fights for all, a big emphasis on women's divisions, a keen eye for undiscovered talent. Things the UFC would never quite by credited for.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Stokes said:


> That no offense is one of the worst breakdowns I have seen in this thread.
> 
> This is in response to both above posts.
> 
> Fedor vs. Lesnar would NOT BE CLOSE. Fedor's ***** would negate Lesnars wrestling and standing obviously Fedor has the edge, who has Lesnar outstruck? Heath Herring? Even Brock admits that he does not want to fight Fedor right now and he is The UFC Heavyweight Champion? Gimme a break..


 Lesnar has shown his hands are lethal, not pretty but he dropped Couture, Mir and sent Herring rolling we have yet to see his chin tested so it is a question mark. We have also not seen Fedor deal with somebody with Lesnar's physical attributes, we saw Roger's manage to nullify Fedor's attempt to take him down and instead put Fedor down, Lesnar has better wrestling than Rogers and far superior top control, not saying Brock would win but to write him off is just silly. When did Brock say he didn't want to fight Fedor? I have heard Lesnar say he doesn't want to discuss Fedor because he isn't in the UFC but that is about it.



> Mousasi vs. Machida - Out of all the bouts this would definitely be the closest..I see it actually mimicking the Shogun fight for the most part but Mousasi would get the decision (shogun won)


 He is gonna mimic Shogun based on what his Muay Thai style? They are completly different fighters so I don't understand how you can compare Shogun and Mousasi.


> Shields vs. Silva - I dont care who gets Lutterd, Lebend, blah blah Shields has never been finished and has fought strikers just as good as Silva, Anderson is never an aggresor striking and you think Shields will attack? No, he will wait for Silva and take him down because we all know AS has shitty tdd..on the ground Shields has the advantage bar none..


 Who has Shields fought who is as good a striker as Anderson Silva? Paul Daley is the best striker he has fought and even you have said Silva is a better striker (need I link to your rankings of UFC strikers?) thing is Daley's TD defense isn't that good and he neither is his ground game, Silva is a better striker, has an extremely dangerous clinch (Shields likes to clinch for the TD) and Silva can hold his own on the ground better than say Mayhem Miller who would have stopped Shields had the bell not saved his ass)



> GSP vs. Diaz - would be a great fight GSP would take nick down and work some GnP nothing Nick isnt used to, you compare this to nick losing to Diego and Sherk but I think you and I both know Nick has gotten a lot better since those fights, earning his black belt and going undefeated as a pro boxer, Khov was already so kind to share that in a previous post maybe you missed it? Standing Nick Diaz has the advantage and on the ground he does as well, Do I think Nick would beat GSP 10/10 no way but I think he has the skillset to beat him DEFINITELY.


 Nick Diaz is slightly bigger than BJ (still a small WW) thing is BJ has way better boxing and hits harder but GSP looked more than capable of standing with Penn, BJ also has far superior BJJ than Diaz. Nick brings nothing to the table that GSP hasn't beat better.



> Melendez vs. BJ Penn - No doubt, BJ Penn would win but comparing Melendez to Diego sanchez is just cruel, Melendez has much better wrestling and has heavier hands, diego might have more burst in his punches but at LW Melendez would beat him..and anyone else in that LW division besides BJ Penn.


Melendez's wreslting may be slightly better than Diego's but in no way does he have heavier hands, Diego has a better ground game, they both have reckless striking but Diego is stronger. Sanchez would tear Melendez apart.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

Stokes said:


> Really? I didnt think it was that great at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's why you are you and I am me.

I think there are a few UFC HW who can either beat or compete with Fedor.

mousasi is so grossly overrated by some people it makes me sick. He would be an good fighter in the LWH divison in the UFC. Not great.

Shields really isn't that good. He would be an ok fighter in the UFC.

UFC's welter weights are dominant. GSP would murder any of SF's. Fitch and Alves probably would as well. 

The top 3 or 4 LW In the UFC can be Champ in SF.

Toxic knows what he is talking about. Look at the poll. Looks like almost everyone disagrees with you.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

I dont know if this is a troll thread or what........

MMA fans shouldnt care much about the orgs. It's the fighters that make us watch MMA not Dana White and Scott Coker.

And the argument of Strikeforce vs UFC is kinda lame. The UFC is the king while Strikeforce is an up and coming organization that has a few great fighters (Fedor, Hendo, Mousasi) but lacks depth and talent in almost all of its weight classes.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

diablo5597 said:


> Toxic knows what he is talking about. Look at the poll. Looks like almost everyone disagrees with you.


Better yet, they don't even agree with themselves(or they haven't voted...)


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

diablo5597 said:


> That's why you are you and I am me.
> 
> I think there are a few UFC HW who can either beat or compete with Fedor.
> 
> ...


Yes, almost everyone disagrees because the UFC is the most popular organization therefore most fans watch UFC, therefore most people that visit this sight are UFC fans. They go to Google to get some UFC info, and it leads them to this sight. They say cool! an MMA/UFC forum SIGN ME UP. They do, then come to threads like this and say "Whats Strikeforce?" And vote UFC easily. It just proves what I already know, however the arguments I am getting from the UFC side are really, really bad. Yours isnt that great either. Thanks for the pos rep though, even if you wholeheartedly disagree.


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

JimmyJames said:


> *I dont know if this is a troll thread or what........
> *
> MMA fans shouldnt care much about the orgs. It's the fighters that make us watch MMA not Dana White and Scott Coker.
> 
> And the argument of Strikeforce vs UFC is kinda lame. The UFC is the king while Strikeforce is an up and coming organization that has a few great fighters (Fedor, Hendo, Mousasi) but lacks depth and talent in almost all of its weight classes.


its funny, i was wondering that from page one to three and at page 7 or so i realized it most likely is....:thumb02:


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## Ruckus (Oct 2, 2009)

Stokes said:


> *That no offense is one of the worst breakdowns I have seen in this thread.
> *
> This is in response to both above posts.
> 
> ...


These are some nice match ups and would definitely be competitive fights. The poll question is the UFC vs. SF however, not just the top guy in each division. The best fighters in the world are predominately in the UFC, that is a fact. 

I am fully aware of Fedor's achievements and how he has overcome *EVERY* challenge in his career. But to say that vs. Brock wouldn't even be close is borderline ridiculous. Not to say that brock would win, just saying I don't think Fedor has faced anyone with the combo of size, speed and strength. Rogers briefly had a dominate position just didn't know what to do with it. Brock IMO does not make that same mistake. He IMO is the only HW that is currently fighting in SF that ranks with the top HW's in the UFC. 

Mousasi vs. Machida would be epic. I think Mousasi is a great match up for fighters in both the LHW and MW (Rua, Rampage, Lil Nog, Silva, Nate, etc.) He is just one fighter in the SF ranks. 

There is King Mo', who can compete at LHW and HW. I think Rashad beats him at LHW let alone the other top guys.

If Shields waits for Silva we will see another version of Lietes vs. Silva. Shields has his hands full with Nate, Sonnen and Maia, let alone Silva. He has absolute NO CHANCE against Silva, to say otherwise is just plain silly IMO.

Diaz will have his hands full with Marius Zaromskis let alone facing GSP. Would he compete, certainly. Would he win, slim to none and slim just left the building.

Melendez doesn't beat Kenny let alone BJ.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Stokes said:


> Yes, almost everyone disagrees because the UFC is the most popular organization therefore most fans watch UFC, therefore most people that visit this sight are UFC fans. They go to Google to get some UFC info, and it leads them to this sight. They say cool! an MMA/UFC forum SIGN ME UP. They do, then come to threads like this and say "Whats Strikeforce?" And vote UFC easily. It just proves what I already know, however the arguments I am getting from the UFC side are really, really bad. Yours isnt that great either. Thanks for the pos rep though, even if you wholeheartedly disagree.


You completly disrespect the number of knowledgable, intelligent members this board has with this post, we have a vast number of members who are fans of all mma, just because they disagree with you does not make them "UFC" fans, maybe they just think your wrong?


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Toxic said:


> You completly disrespect the number of knowledgable, intelligent members this board has with this post, we have a vast number of members who are fans of all mma, just because they disagree with you does not make them "UFC" fans, maybe they just think your wrong?


I wish there was a way to see who voted on these polls, and I will guarantee you that 75% who voted UFC easily will be non-paid members with less than 200 posts. Guaranteed.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Considering that the number of members with post counts in the 1000s probably only makes up 5% of the users on the board that isn't rocket science.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Stokes said:


> I would take the top 5 fighters from any division in StrikeForce besides the MW division up against the top 5 in the UFC any day. The HW division especially would own the UFC's. Hands down.
> 
> I believe that sometimes the only reason people are so up on the UFC being the best is that is all they watch, and are used to hearing it all the time. You have become brainwashed IMO, and need to actually learn more about the fighters from SF before you judge.
> 
> ...


Any one of those UFC fighters destroy everyone aside from Fedor on any given day, sorry. 

UFC is MILES ahead of SF overall. They have like 5 really good fighters in Mousasi, Verdum (tested and failed in the UFC), Fedor, Shields (IMO, wouldn't make it past Fitch in the UFC WW division, probably wouldn't make it past Alves, Kos, AJ or Semtex either), and Melendez. Overeem is an overhyped juice monkey who would get wrecked all over the place by Cain, probably Carwin, Mir, Nog and would get absolutely man handled by Lesnar. Mousasi and Fedor are the only ones I give a shot at being much more than a gatekeeper in the UFC. Mousasi could make a run at the LHW belt, but I think he'd get stopped short by Shogun and Machida. Fedor I'm unsure about, he would probably steam roll the entire UFC HW division though, but that's a given.


EDIT: Stokes, I saw your comment on "People are saying "UFC" because it's the most popular," while I cannot argue that isn't true, as I'm sure in many cases it is, it's not in mine. I believe that SF is far inferior to the UFC due to their level of skill. In any given division the UFC has at least 5 extremely good fighters and in many cases far more than that. 

This is according to the Independent Word MMA Rankings put together by MMA-Opinion, they're the only rankings I trust as they're made by a lot of knowledgeable people casting votes to decide, they usually coincide with what a lot of the hardcore fans here think, too. 

HW: UFC has 6 ranked fighters, SF has 4. Note that Fedor is the only fighter SF has in the TOP FIVE.
1. Fedor Emelianenko (31-1, 1 No Contest)
2. Brock Lesnar (4-1)
3. Frank Mir (13-4)
4. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (32-5-1, 1 No Contest)
5. Shane Carwin (11-0)
6. Brett Rogers (10-1)
7. Junior dos Santos (10-1)
8. Alistair Overeem (32-11, 1 No Contest)
9. Cain Velasquez (7-0)
10. Fabricio Werdum (13-4-1)

LHW: UFC owns 8 out of ten, SF has the other two and one of them gained his ranking IN the UFC, not SF.
1. Lyoto Machida (16-0)
2. Mauricio “Shogun” Rua (18-4)
3. Rashad Evans (14-1-1)
4. Quinton Jackson (30-7)
5. Anderson Silva (25-4)
6. Gegard Mousasi (27-2-1)
7. Forrest Griffin (17-6)
8. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira (18-3)
9. Dan Henderson (25-7)
10. Thiago Silva (14-2)

MW: UFC owns 6 out of 10, SF with 4, and again, two of their fighters earned their rankings outside of SF (Henderson and Jacare)
1. Anderson Silva (25-4)
2. Nathan Marquardt (29-8-2)
3. Dan Henderson (25-7)
4. Vitor Belfort (19-8)
5. Demian Maia (11-1)
6. Jake Shields (24-4-1)
7. Chael Sonnen (24-10-1)
8. Yushin Okami (23-5)
9. Robbie Lawler (16-5, 1 No Contest)
10. Ronaldo “Jacare” Souza (11-2, 1 No Contest)

WW: UFC holds a stunning 9 out of 10, with SF having the other fighter in Marius who is yet to fight IN SF and will continue to fight with DREAM as well.

1. Georges St. Pierre (19-2)
2. Jon Fitch (21-3, 1 No Contest)
3. Thiago Alves (16-6)
4. Josh Koscheck (14-4)
5. Dan Hardy (23-6)
6. Matt Hughes (43-7)
7. Paulo Thiago (12-1)
8. Mike Swick (14-3)
9. Marius Zaromskis (13-3)
10. Paul Daley (23-8-2)

LW: UFC holds 5, while SF holds 1 and DREAM holds 4

1. B.J. Penn (15-5-1)
2. Shinya Aoki (23-4, 1 No Contest)
3. Eddie Alvarez (19-2)
4. Kenny Florian (12-4)
5. Tatsuya Kawajiri (26-5-2)
6. Gray Maynard (9-0, 1 No Contest)
7. Frankie Edgar (11-1)
8. Diego Sanchez (21-3)
9. Joachim Hansen (19-8-1)
10. Gilbert Melendez (17-2)

My decision is based on fight skill and rank, not because the UFC is more popular.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Considering that the number of members with post counts in the 1000s probably only makes up 5% of the users on the board that isn't rocket science.


Fine, I'll even lessen to 100. 

You know its true, how many people on here have usernames like "UFCFAN**", hell even an Administrator on this forum has a name like that. Now, by no means am I saying that all of those users "just watch UFC" but it just shows that UFC is the most popular therefore most likely to be voted ahead of other orgs in polls like this. I guarantee when Pride was still alive if a thread like this was made UFC would have owned it as well. Maybe not this lopsided, but at least 70-30 or better.


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

Stokes said:


> Yes, almost everyone disagrees because the UFC is the most popular organization therefore most fans watch UFC, therefore most people that visit this sight are UFC fans. They go to Google to get some UFC info, and it leads them to this sight. They say cool! an MMA/UFC forum SIGN ME UP. They do, then come to threads like this and say "Whats Strikeforce?" And vote UFC easily. It just proves what I already know, however the arguments I am getting from the UFC side are really, really bad. Yours isnt that great either. Thanks for the pos rep though, even if you wholeheartedly disagree.


maybe you should stop paying attention to the "lolololololololololololoolol ufc pwns all sf sucks balls" type posts and back up the claim that sf is currently better than or equal to the ufc in a majority of weight classes. i put up lightheavy as an example a few posts earlier. i want to see how you can manage to get sf at least *two* wins when going head to head:confused02:

edit-i for one did not vote in this poll since i already know my opions are some what ufc biased-but i at least try and back up my views.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Stokes said:


> They do, then come to threads like this and say "Whats Strikeforce?" And vote UFC easily. It just proves what I already know, however the arguments I am getting from the UFC side are really, really bad.


Yeah because there are soo few of us that actually watch both SF and the UFC... 

What is so great about the arguments for SF?

In regards to Diaz I see that he has a BJJ black belt(lots of guys do, many of which actually win fights using it too...) and that he has one 1 pro boxing fight against a guy that is now 7-4, and was having his debut fight against Diaz, so he obviously has better stand up and punches harder then GSP who had no problems striking with Penn or Alves.

In regards to Silva I see that he has terrible takedown defense and is crap on the ground, both of which are false. He doesn't have great takedown defense but he has hurt a lot of guys with knees, and the guys that do get him down are usually submitted.

Then with Mousasi I keep seeing that he would just mimick Shogun and win that way. They aren't the same fighter, Mousasi doesn't have the leg kicks and speed of Shogun(which are what threw Machida off). That was a very close fight and Shogun fought the perfect fight, Mousasi(or Shogun in the rematch) makes 1 mistake and that fight is a loss for them.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Stokes said:


> Yes, almost everyone disagrees because the UFC is the most popular organization therefore most fans watch UFC, therefore most people that visit this sight are UFC fans. They go to Google to get some UFC info, and it leads them to this sight. They say cool! an MMA/UFC forum SIGN ME UP. They do, then come to threads like this and say "Whats Strikeforce?" And vote UFC easily. It just proves what I already know, however the arguments I am getting from the UFC side are really, really bad. Yours isnt that great either. Thanks for the pos rep though, even if you wholeheartedly disagree.


If this ^^^ were true then we would have a lot more "troll" threads on this site. 

I understand what you are saying but I believe you are wrong with your assumption. I know I havent been on this site all that long but there seem to be little to no posters that come off as UFC only MMA fans that lack knowledge about MMA outside of the UFC. 

Sorry but you make this site sound like it is shitdog.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Stokes said:


> Fine, I'll even lessen to 100.
> 
> You know its true, how many people on here have usernames like "UFCFAN**", hell even an Administrator on this forum has a name like that. Now, by no means am I saying that all of those users "just watch UFC" but it just shows that UFC is the most popular therefore most likely to be voted ahead of other orgs in polls like this. I guarantee when Pride was still alive if a thread like this was made UFC would have owned it as well. Maybe not this lopsided, but at least 70-30 or better.


 Is there something wrong with liking the UFC? I would rather watch UFC than any other org, I watch everything probably just as much if not more than you do (I watch any and all MMA I can) 

Actually I remember everyone saying the Pride fighters were gonna wreck the UFC guys, that was the popular opinion at the time, popular opinion usually wins because those who are unsure vote along with the masses.


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

Strikeforce just doesn't have the depth... yet. This is clear by the fact that they cannot book a card more than 3-4 weeks out. But I like the direction they are headed.

And anyone suggesting Mousasi would beat Machida at this point is being a bit over zealous, imo.

And, I'm being pretty objective there 

|
|
V


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Is there something wrong with liking the UFC? I would rather watch UFC than any other org, I watch everything probably just as much if not more than you do (I watch any and all MMA I can)
> 
> Actually I remember everyone saying the Pride fighters were gonna wreck the UFC guys, that was the popular opinion at the time,* popular opinion usually wins because those who are unsure vote along with the masses.*



You said it not me. See poll.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Stokes said:


> You said it not me. See poll.


He said usually wins(as in they get some extra votes)...

Not be winning 54-1...


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Stokes said:


> You said it not me. See poll.


I did say it so lets take off 15 for the sheep and 5 for the guys that never watch Strikeforce, but then we gotta take off 2 for Strikeforce for the elitists that only voted cause its not the UFC and another one becaue he only did it to rebel against popular opinion.

Now its 

34-7 happy?


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Toxic said:


> I did say it so lets take off 15 for the sheep and 5 for the guys that never watch Strikeforce, but then we gotta take off 2 for Strikeforce for the elitists that only voted cause its not the UFC and another one becaue he only did it to rebel against popular opinion.
> 
> Now its
> 
> 34-7 happy?


The man has a point. Even WITH all of the newer fans of MMA, the numbers here on this forum tend to be towards the more hardcore fans of MMA. Casual fans do not come on a message board to post about MMA usually. Even a lot of non-gold members here are extremely knowledgeable about other organizations. So even if you want to remove a drastic 75% of the UFCs vote for "Noobs" the UFC still wins by and large.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Whoever thinks the talent is close needs their brain checked out. No hate for Strikeforce, but even they know it isn't really close. It's just being real.


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## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

Reading this thread is like staring at a train wreck. You know you should look away but just can't help it.


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## drey2k (Jul 9, 2009)

Fedor beats Lesnar

Moussassi beats Machida (basically Mousassi is Fedor just smaller version, he is unstoppable at this point)

A. Silva beats Shields 

Diaz beats GSP (imo fuk off)

Penn beats whoever the best LHW is in SF.

So I have it 3-2 Strikeforce.

Edit: WOW I saw the poll results, the amount of noobs on here is staggering, UFC does not win this easily please go watch some of these guys like Diaz and Mousassi fight you fools.


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

the fact that you call mousasi a smaller version of fedor coupled with your admited ignorance as to the lw champ in sf and then your assumption of noobs (with your low post count) and fools (Assuming you werent refering to yourself) should pretty much signal the death of this lackluster and ridiculous thread.

But just in case it is in dought let me make it official..................................................../Endthread


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Thelegend said:


> the fact that you call mousasi a smaller version of fedor coupled with your admited ignorance as to the lw champ in sf and then your assumption of noobs (with your low post count) and fools (Assuming you werent refering to yourself) should pretty much signal the death of this lackluster and ridiculous thread.
> 
> But just in case it is in dought let me make it official..................................................../Endthread


Drey, I'm pretty sure you just got SHUT THE **** DOWN SON!


Also, you're wrong. Diaz would get smoked. Mousasi MIGHT beat Machida. to say he's a LHW Fedor is completely moronic. The dude is good, but not Fedor good. Not to mention I don't think he's fought a Ranked fighter yet. His best win is over Melvin Manhoef who's very obvious, glaring weakness is Mousasi's strength. Or if you want to say his best win is over Babalu I can just laugh in your face, too.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I would actually say Jacare could be considered his biggest win.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

drey2k said:


> Fedor beats Lesnar
> 
> Moussassi beats Machida (basically Mousassi is Fedor just smaller version, he is unstoppable at this point)
> 
> ...


Repped for truth. Half of these people are too blind to see reality and get off of the UFC's nuts. 

It's a shame that you get flamed for your opinion bro, that is just a sad story on this forum because you are probably getting blind negged by paid members (Who I can't stand) but dont worry karma is a b****..


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Yes its a shame only the two of you are so enlightened, couldn't be that your wrong.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Yes its a shame only the two of you are so enlightened, couldn't be that your wrong.


You approve of him getting flamed for his opinion Toxic?

Its funny I was only negged twice for this thread, which is fine with me its just a shame that someone who has decent posts (I read through some of his) gets put into the red over an opinion.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

drey2k said:


> Fedor beats Lesnar
> 
> Moussassi beats Machida (basically Mousassi is Fedor just smaller version, he is unstoppable at this point)
> 
> ...





Stokes said:


> You approve of him getting flamed for his opinion Toxic?
> 
> Its funny I was only negged twice for this thread, which is fine with me its just a shame that someone who has decent posts (I read through some of his) gets put into the red over an opinion.


Maybe he was getting neg repped because he was disrespectful.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

diablo5597 said:


> [/SIZE]
> Maybe he was getting neg repped because he was disrespectful.


Ahhh..didnt really see that part. A little tired I guess..

Either way I would like to point a few things out so people dont think I just hate the UFC. 

Brock Lesnar is my all time favorite athlete. I have watched him since I was a little kid compete in pro wrestling, bought his NFL jersey for the Vikings (I am an Eagles fan) and am a huge fan of him in MMA as well. 

Most of my favorite fighters are in the UFC.

My opinions are just that, my opinions, I am not on crack, do not have brain damage, or any other medical condition for my opinions in this thread(a few accusations of these conditions were given to me for my opinions).

I would also be willing to bet any of you on a fight between the champions in SF against the UFC champions were a bout ever to happen, but only for the fighters I indicated I thought would win. Great discussion though, keep this thread alive as long as possible so one day when SF becomes more popular I can say "I told you so" to every last one of you.


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## xvanquish (Jul 30, 2009)

UFC has UNDENIABLY the deepest divisions in all of MMA, how can anyone argue differently? Mousasi beating Machida huh....Ok yea sure it could happen...Would Machida be the favorite? Obviously.

Would Mousasi beat Rampage, Evans, Shogun, Lil Nog, Jones, Cane? 

Or are those guys just a bunch of pussys that Mousasi would be just the mystical moving force that he is and beat all their asses. The answer is not yes retards, SURE he has the potential to beat all of them but those guys sure as hell have the skill to beat him.

Belfort, Maia, Marquart, Okami, Sonnen , Wand , Bisping 

Would Shields walk through these guys? Jake Shields is a great fighter but can he beat Anderson the P4P champ. What in his whole career has he done to show that he can take out the consensus best MMA fighter in the world today. 

Nick Diaz beats GSP cause "punches in bunches" "Best BJJ" is GSP's Kriptonite? We all know everyones argument on how GSP can be beat... "YEA B-B-BUT...(wait for it)......HE HAS A PUNCHERS CHANCE! 

Can Nick Diaz get past Fitch, Alves, Kos, Sanchez, Hardy, Swick,Penn? He already lost to one of them and Sherk and Diesel...Yea but Nick Diaz has improved by _9000_ since then. Yeah he has improved, but dont most people get better overtime :confused03:


Lesnar, Mir, JDS, Big Nog, Valasquez, Gonzaga, Carwin, Crocop. 

Fedor is the 1# Heavyweight in the world period. The only match im interested in him in SF is Ubereem. In UFC all those names listed are huge fights sans Crocop if he doesnt improve in his next fight. Yes I know I overlooked Werdum. 

Penn is the undeniable best Lightweight in the world. 
Maynard, Diaz, Florian, Sanchez, Edgar, Sherk, Griffin, Guida

You can easily Make a case for Melendez beating all those guys but they are still competitive matches and he would lost to at least one of them. 


Did I once mention once of SF's divisions roster? Nope cause it wasnt even close. Lashley, Bobalu, Lawler, Hendo, Manhoef, King Mo, Thompson, Rogers, Aoki. All contenders many of them fought in UFC already but couldn't cut it. None of whom are considered world beaters and all would not be 1# contenders in UFC except Hendo In Middleweight. 

This isnt Champ vs Champ. The topic is UFC vs Strikeforce. The UFC has the best overall fighters. If you are the champ in UFC you are Consensus best fighter in the world sans HW (Fedor) if your in denial about this then lookup every single rankings on the many differnt MMA sites where its their ******* _Job to report and discuss_ who the top fighters are. 


Oh and to anyone you said SF welterweight Div is better, you sir are legally retarded.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Stokes said:


> Ahhh..didnt really see that part. A little tired I guess..
> 
> Either way I would like to point a few things out so people dont think I just hate the UFC.
> 
> ...


It's not ridiculous to think that some SF fighters could complete in the UFC, but overall their talent pool is considerably lacking compared to the likes of the UFC as pointed out in my earlier post. I know you know a lot about MMA and like me, are a fighter. We can see certain things a lot of other viewers may not be able to. The thing is though is there is a fine line between ignorance and logic. Logically (on paper) the SF organization of fighters as a whole could not compete with the UFC. Sure, there are SOME fighters who could compete, hell some of them could even win a belt (Fedor, Mousasi), but as a whole, 90% of the organization would end up being B level fighters at best. I'm not trying to discount your option to have an opinion, but it seems as though you're letting your bias skew the view of how these fighters match up on a skill vs skill level.


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## drey2k (Jul 9, 2009)

Thelegend said:


> the fact that you call mousasi a smaller version of fedor coupled with your admited ignorance as to the lw champ in sf and then your assumption of noobs (with your low post count) and fools (Assuming you werent refering to yourself) should pretty much signal the death of this lackluster and ridiculous thread.
> 
> But just in case it is in dought let me make it official..................................................../Endthread


Wow so my post count has something to do with my knowledge of mma?

GTFO you tool


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Stokes said:


> Good post, nice argument.


:sarcastic12:


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

I have to give it to the UFC by a mile. Sure, Strikeforce has Fedor, but the UFC has overall a better heavyweight roster. 

No contest, UFC as light heavy weight and middle weight, as well as welter and light weight. 

Honestly its not even a competition. UFC overall has a dominating roster and almost all of the ten best MMA fighters in the world. Except-I think, not 100% sure on the number-two or three fighters.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Stokes said:


> Ahhh..didnt really see that part. A little tired I guess..
> 
> Either way I would like to point a few things out so people dont think I just hate the UFC.
> 
> ...



IF there were more guys like this and believe this much Bull because they see that everyone thinks UFC is better so they try to be different annoys the shit out of me...

This is ignorance at its best, he is still talking only CHAMPS when there is a WHOLE ORGANIZATION. 

If Someone here actually thinks ALL of SF,has as much Talented fighters and are as DEEP and TALENTED as ALL OF UFC???

Needs to slap themselves in the face, and face reality BAD.

When Scott Coker, says he doesn't want to compete with UFC, its because he looks at the top 20 in the world in each weight class and he sees its not even close.

ALL BIG fighters want to be in UFC because thats BY FAR the biggest MMA organization, adn they want there name out for the Big Bucks 

And they are a new organization.... If UFC was new and Strikeforce had ALL the fighters...

Then UFC got some Affliction guys...

This would be a stupid argument thinking UFC was better.... 

Someone needs to end this Tread its making this Website look bad that there some people that actually believe this....

Thank God 98% of the people aren't agreeing.... That would be even more scary then this Thread


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

I think people need to look at it a bit differently. UFC is a lot deeper and better (thats how they can do monthly PPVs) ~ although not all are that good. But SF has partnerships with other orgs like Dream, M1, etc... making it somewhat unique and cool to watch. The event tonight looks very entertaining and much better on paper anyway than the last two UFC PPVs, for which $50 was the fee.

My point is there is room for both and SF has some cool fighters like Fedor, Gegard, Woodley, King Mo and through partnerships fighters like Aoki, Lombard, etc... potentially anyway. UFC would be a lot more likeable if Dana wasn't such an arrogant person but thats neither here nor there I guess. Overall UFC right now is much better and deeper.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Samborules said:


> I think people need to look at it a bit differently. UFC is a lot deeper and better (thats how they can do monthly PPVs) ~ although not all are that good. But SF has partnerships with other orgs like Dream, M1, etc... making it somewhat unique and cool to watch. The event tonight looks very entertaining and much better on paper anyway than the last two UFC PPVs, for which $50 was the fee.
> 
> My point is there is room for both and SF has some cool fighters like Fedor, Gegard, Woodley, King Mo and through partnerships fighters like Aoki, Lombard, etc... potentially anyway. UFC would be a lot more likeable if Dana wasn't such an arrogant person but thats neither here nor there I guess. Overall UFC right now is much better and deeper.



Yeah like lets reopen this Tread in about 5 years lol, Maybe something will change...

That or Strikeforce will be a BIG filter for all the UFC dropouts which we are starting to already see, with the exception of Hendo, where he just wanted more money lol....

Just look at the guys that lost in UFC and already switched over either from losing or getting kicked out like Thales Leites and, Sokoudjou and Robbie Lawler, Mayhem, Werdum, Scott Smith, Josh Thomson... And probably Housten next.... 

I can keep going but i think u get the picture and SF IS already the PLan B for all fighters that arnt the Pride of Russia so have Promotion Issues... 

UFC Plan A Adn Strikeforce Plan B that should be the new Thread name


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Samborules said:


> I think people need to look at it a bit differently. UFC is a lot deeper and better (thats how they can do monthly PPVs) ~ although not all are that good. But SF has partnerships with other orgs like Dream, M1, etc... making it somewhat unique and cool to watch. The event tonight looks very entertaining and much better on paper anyway than the last two UFC PPVs, for which $50 was the fee.
> 
> My point is there is room for both and SF has some cool fighters like Fedor, Gegard, Woodley, King Mo and through partnerships fighters like Aoki, Lombard, etc... potentially anyway. UFC would be a lot more likeable if Dana wasn't such an arrogant person but thats neither here nor there I guess. Overall UFC right now is much better and deeper.


I don't think anyone's denying that SF is good to watch, it is quality MMA. The only orrganization I can think of that is better quality is the UFC, and MAYBE DREAM, but with their alliance now and DREAM fighters now fighting in SF it's a different story.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Machida Karate said:


> *IF there were more guys like this and believe this much Bull because they see that everyone thinks UFC is better so they try to be different annoys the shit out of me...*
> 
> This is ignorance at its best, he is still talking only CHAMPS when there is a WHOLE ORGANIZATION.
> 
> ...


What are you trying to imply? That I am simply trying to be different? No, I am simply stating that SF is on equal levels with the UFC in talent. I have been doing so this entire thread, and its not like I havent stated good opinions and facts, I have. You post the same thing every time you respond, End thread blah blah, UFC better blah blah, Ignorant, blah blah. Try giving me a good reason why all the UFC champions would beat all the SF champions, as you stated in a previous post but failed to go into detail on.

P.S. Changed my avy for you all who think I just hate the UFC, Brock is the man. I am just a realistic fan and know that right now he cannot beat Fedor.


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## JACro (Aug 12, 2009)

I watch MMA everyday, I watch UFC, Strikeforce, WEC, Dream, Pride, KotC, HCFC, RERUNS basically anything I get my hands on, I am a fanatic.

I voted for UFC, and GUESS WHAT I'm not a UFC noob. Also I would like to state that I disagree with Stokes opinion about the UFC winning the polls because of all the "UFC noobs". Maybe some of those votes were from people like that, But I'm willing to bet a huge majority that voted UFC were EXTREMELY knowledgeable about MMA. Not calling you out Stokes, I just REALLY disagree.

Now that I've explained that, let me explain my vote.

Firstly my vote was based that the divisions in the UFC are deeper then that of Strikeforce the people that are voting for Strikeforce seem to only be focusing on the few fighters that have a CHANCE at defeating some top dogs in the UFC.

Put Mousasi in UFC he is going to be competitive OF COURSE he's going to be competitive against some of the top dogs. He's a extremely talented fighter who keeps getting better and now he's been training with GSP. But to think that he would run over Lyoto, Shogun, Rampage, or Rashad, seems a little delusional.(Not trying to insult)Would he be competitive in the division? YES does this make Strikeforce better then UFC? **** NO!!

Name another LHW in Strikeforce that would even be competitive(against said top dogs) in the UFC..

Do I think Fedor could win the HW belt in the UFC? HELL YES I do. Do I think Werdum would do any better this time in the ufc...No not really. Do I think that Strikeforce has many HW fighters who could be COMPETITIVE in the UFC? HELL YES! I would give the nudge on the HW division to SF JUST because of Fedor. Some of the other fights would be good fights. So hats of to Strikeforce for doing so well with a smaller budget and fanbase then UFC... But HW is only one division.


This is just my opinion but some of you people out there seem to be hyping up Jake Shields way too much. He has had some impressive victories and I would not argue one bit about him being able to hold his own in the UFC. But He hasn't really been tested against many TRUE challenges. He beat Condit and Okami NEARLY 4 YEARS AGO and that was BEFORE either beat anyone really worth mentioning. He could defeat some UFC MW but I honestly see him having a lot of trouble Vs. Marquart, Maia, Vitor, Silva.. IS Jake Shields a great fighter? YES? Is there any evidence he could wipe through the UFC MW? NO. Once again I give the Nudge to UFC for have 4-5 guys that would pose problems to Shields vs. Strikeforce's 1 middleweight that even deserves a chance.(Besides Dan Henderson - whom is obviously competitive in the UFC.... actually I might just give SF the nudge for Dana white being so idiotic to Let Henderson go)

NEXT

Strikeforce HARDLY even has a Welterweight division. IS Tyrone Woodley a great up an comer? Yes? Is her ready for the UFC? No. 

The only fighter who even stands a chance is Nick Diaz, and he hasn't really been tested lately. His notable wins are over Scott Smith - who has quite a few losses in both UFC AND Strikeforce - Frank Shamrock who in my opinion is over the hill, and has been extrememly over-rated since his victory over Tito Ortiz - and Cung Le whos ONLY notable win is over Frank Shamrock. I can see him being competitive in the division, But He would have a real hard time against Guys Like Josh Kosheck, Jon Fitch, Thiago Alves, Matt Hughes, and ESPECIALLY GSP.

Melendez would do well in LW division but I really can't see him posing much of a threat to BJ penn.

My point - The Strikeforce TOP fighters are worthy of being in the ufc and would fight competitively. But a lot of there guys arn't really worth mentioning (Though I still love watching their fights)and would get creamed in the UFC

That's my opinion, take it however you like


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## JACro (Aug 12, 2009)

Stokes said:


> What are you trying to imply? That I am simply trying to be different? No, I am simply stating that SF is on equal levels with the UFC in talent. I have been doing so this entire thread, and its not like I havent stated good opinions and facts, I have. You post the same thing every time you respond, End thread blah blah, UFC better blah blah, Ignorant, blah blah. Try giving me a good reason why all the UFC champions would beat all the SF champions, as you stated in a previous post but failed to go into detail on.
> 
> P.S. Changed my avy for you all who think I just hate the UFC, Brock is the man. I am just a realistic fan and know that right now he cannot beat Fedor.


I don't like soundign like a dick or trying to push my opinion but... Do you really think SF is equal level? wouldn't it be more adequate to say -SOME- Strikeforce Fighters are on equal level with UFC fighters?


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Stokes said:


> What are you trying to imply? That I am simply trying to be different? No, I am simply stating that SF is on equal levels with the UFC in talent. I have been doing so this entire thread, and its not like I havent stated good opinions and facts, I have. You post the same thing every time you respond, End thread blah blah, UFC better blah blah, Ignorant, blah blah. Try giving me a good reason why all the UFC champions would beat all the SF champions, as you stated in a previous post but failed to go into detail on.
> 
> P.S. Changed my avy for you all who think I just hate the UFC, Brock is the man. I am just a realistic fan and know that right now he cannot beat Fedor.



ARE U BLIND? Did u not any all those Breakdowns? Toxic was right on, and *JACro couldn't put it better... IF u actually read ALL of what he said instead of pointing out 1 point in the many good points, like u do to all my posts......

*he is being realistic, and yes i do believe this whole blog was either made to be different and argue, because UFC has all the top fighters, Strikeforce has a handful, im completely done with this Thread, its one of the most obvious things ive even heard argued in a long time


I tell u on a post, that UFC is just way deeper then all of the SF divisions and GSP would kill Shields, and all u bring up is Shields, and ignore the point that its true that UFC has way more top fighters in ALL divisions.....

Pointless to argue with people like that

PS... I watch all underground MMA events and K1, and a lot of Boxing, im a MMA fan, but im not ignorant enough to think SF is even close to UFC. Does that make me a nut hugging UFC only fan... MAybe to someone that doesn't know 1 thing about me.....

Ive only been to more Strikeforce events then any WEC event, but i hate Strikeforce i only drove 300 miles to go watch it live....


----------



## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

JACro said:


> I don't like soundign like a dick or trying to push my opinion but... Do you really think SF is equal level? wouldn't it be more adequate to say -SOME- Strikeforce Fighters are on equal level with UFC fighters?


I could see the top 5 guys from each division doing completely fine against each other. 

Machida Karate, I'm glad your done with this thread because I'm done trying to read your retarded posts they give me a headache. You have yet to make your own arguement, you just rely on others posts to make one. Try making your own argument, this isnt follow the leader. :thumbsup:


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Stokes said:


> I could see the top 5 guys from each division doing completely fine against each other.
> 
> Machida Karate, I'm glad your done with this thread because I'm done trying to read your retarded posts they give me a headache. You have yet to make your own arguement, you just rely on others posts to make one. Try making your own argument, this isnt follow the leader. :thumbsup:




HAHAHAHAHA! That cause im not going to waste my time posting all the obvious reasons that were already stated WHY.... But i love how u Ignore the fact that they all made u look dumb, there top 5 in each division competing with UFC's top 5??? Your digging your grave deep LOL I LOVE IT


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## JACro (Aug 12, 2009)

Stokes said:


> I could see the top 5 guys from each division doing completely fine against each other.
> 
> Machida Karate, I'm glad your done with this thread because I'm done trying to read your retarded posts they give me a headache. You have yet to make your own arguement, you just rely on others posts to make one. Try making your own argument, this isnt follow the leader. :thumbsup:



IF I may request - Would you post a list of these so called top 5 of each weight class that could be competitive in the UFC. Thanks


----------



## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I think that some Strikeforce fighters are on par UFC fighters and some Strikeforce fighters are better than UFC fighters. But the organization as a whole is not on the level that the UFC is. 

For example fighters like Fedor and Mousasi could tear up most if not all of the fighters in their division. BUT people like Rogers or Werdum or Sobral would not. People like Jake Shields would not win the title. Although Strikeforce has some top fighters that would do very well in the UFC, does not mean that the rest of the fighters in Strikeforce would.


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

drey2k said:


> Fedor beats Lesnar
> 
> Moussassi beats Machida (basically Mousassi is Fedor just smaller version, he is unstoppable at this point)
> 
> ...





drey2k said:


> Wow so my post count has something to do with my knowledge of mma?
> 
> GTFO you tool


and people voting for ufc makes them less knowledgeable than you and makes them fools even though you can't even recall one of the champs in sf?:confused05: the only tool i see is the one who doesn't even try to make an argument and back up his views with something more substantial than "go and watch so and so fight you fools":sarcastic12:

edit-Strikeforce top ten light heavy weight's
1) Gegard Mousasi [CHAMP](26-2-1)
2) Dan Henderson (LHW & MW) 25 - 7 - 0
3) Renato "Babalu" Sobral (35-9)
4) Jeff Monson (HW & LHW)32 - 9 - 0
5) "King" Mo Lawal (HW & LHW)(5-0)
6) Mike Kyle 13 - 7 - 1
7) Rafael "Feijao" Cavalcante 8 - 2 - 0
8) Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou (6-4)
9) Mike Whitehead 24 - 7 - 0
10)Kevin "The Monster" Randleman 17 - 14 - 0

UFC top ten light heavy weights
1) Lyoto Machida [CHAMP]16 - 0 - 0
2) Mauricio "shogun" rua 18 - 4 - 0
3) Quinton Jackson 30 - 7 - 0
4) Rashad Evans 14 - 1 - 1
5) Forrest Griffin 17 - 6 - 0
6) Thiago silva 14 - 2 - 0
7) Antônio Rogério Nogueira 18 - 3 - 0
8) Jon Jones 9 - 1 - 0
9) Chuck liddell 21 - 7 - 0
10) Tito Ortiz 15 - 7 - 1

There, in order to make up for sf lack of depth i even gave you some of the guys that don't fight at lhw usually....you can take any five from both in any match-up and you still have trouble getting sf two wins... How does strikeforce have better fighters in that weight class much less break even?


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

JACro said:


> IF I may request - Would you post a list of these so called top 5 of each weight class that could be competitive in the UFC. Thanks





JACro said:


> IF I may request - Would you post a list of these so called top 5 of each weight class that could be competitive in the UFC. Thanks


Sure man.

HW Division

Brett Rogers - he KO'd arlovski, has a great chin only loss is Fedor which means next to nothing and he is a Lesnar size HW, without the same wrestling skills but much better hands.

Fabricio Werdum - went 2-2 in the UFC last time but honestly he TKO'd Gonzaga who was considered a top 5 HW at the time and TKO'd the Truth...who is now a LHW but still beat him at his own game..he would still do very well in the UFC HW division

Alistair Overeem - hasnt fought in SF in a while but is considered their HW champion so he has to be mentioned...no need explaining why he would do well in the UFC his fight record explains just that..huge cut fighter would pose some serious problems in the UFC HW 

Fedor - no need to explain, you already know that NOBODY in that UFC HW division or any other HW division is gonna beat him right now. I will agree that Brock has the tools to do it but his skill set isnt where it needs to be currently to pull it off...give it a couple years and maybe.

Bigfoot Silva - very strong and good hands out of all the HW this is the only one who I dont see being in the top 5 in the UFC..however I still believe he could beat a top 5 ufc HW..

LHW division

Gegard Mousasi - definitely be top 3 in the UFC LHW division...could see him beating Machida or see him losing to Machida that fight would be epic but he definitely has the skills to beat Lyoto, I dont believe he could beat Shogun but thats also a possibility, any other LHW I could see him beating..

King Mo - dudes wrestling is off the charts and he has sick KO power...he would be in the same class as rashad, rampage, etc.

Kevin Randleman - he is really a hit or miss, either he excels greatly or is an epic fail..unfortunate because the talent is definitely there

Babalu - he did well in the UFC he got TKO'd by chuck liddell in Chucks PRIME, people forget shit like that the UFC did not get rid of Babalu for performance they got rid of him for a stunt he pulled in a fight..chokin a guy out and holding the choke entirely too long..Jason Lambert KO'd him but honestly that was a Serra/gsp KO babalu got caught..he is a much better fighter than jason lambert is..he would do well in the LHW division and I could see him being in the top 5

Ron Humphrey - great up and comer he would do well in the UFC LHW division eventually he reminds me of a much more experienced houston alexander...if that makes sense?

MW Division

Jake Shields - has the skillset required to be GREAT in the UFC MW division..his BJJ is off the charts he can hold is own against anyone on the ground and striking he is decent, never been finished..

Hendo - no explanation needed he was already very successfull in the UFC MW division...only loss was to anderson silva and it was because of a poor decision on his part..

Melvin Manhoef - absolutely insane striking his ground game isnt great but its not terrible and he could finish a lot of fighters in the UFC mw division..

Mayhem Miller - everyone forgets that mayhem took GSP to a decision...he is very solid on the ground and his striking is good enough to keep him alive till it goes to the ground..he could be top 5 in the UFC mw division..

Jacare Souza - he is just warming up in his fight career dude is beast and he would excel greatly in the UFC MW division..


WW Division 

Nick Diaz - could see him beat any of the WW fighters in the UFC, GSP would be his toughest test obviously but his boxing has improved (undefeated pro boxer) and he earned his bjj black belt since leaving the UFC under Cesar Gracie...

Tyron Woodley - great camp, fantastic wrestling reminds me of matt hughes a lot but hes black and doesnt have as much experience...he might not be top 5 in the ufc ww division right off the bat but he could beat a top 5 fighter over there and eventually would be top 5 for sure

Marius Zaromskis - the ww version of Cro Cop..who hasnt gone over the hill yet...no more needs to be said.

Jay Hieron - would be a gatekeeper...dont see him being great but dont see him losing to everyone...he could beat some good WW in the UFC but none top 5 as of now...

did a complete breakdown of LW fighters as well but was signed out because it was taking a long time to post this.. to make it short 

Gilbert melendez, Josh Thomson, KJ Noons, and Billy Evangelista would all do well in the LW division none of them would beat BJ Penn of course but I could see them doing just fine and also beating top 5 fighters from the division...


----------



## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Some of the comments made in this thread have been the dumbest I've read in all of these forums. Mousasi beating Lyoto? Shields beating ANDERSON SILVA!? The only fight that would even come close to Strikeforce winning is Lesnar vs Fedor. Every other fight would be Strikeforce getting owned by UFC. I wouldn't even pay to see these unbelievably one sided fights because the winners are so obvious.

EDIT: I'm talking about title vs title.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Stokes said:


> Sure man.
> 
> HW Division
> 
> ...


 

Brett Rogers vs Mir.... Mir takes it
Fabricio Werdum already lost several times would easily lose to Big Nog

Alistar Overeem, (UFC almost owns)- would have a tough fight against CAin

Fedor tough fight against BRock
Bigfoot Silva vs JDS easy

LHW
Mousasi vs Machida a good fight
King Mo vs SHogun = Shogun
Kevin Randleman vs Rampage.... JOke
Babalu... vs RAshad JOKE
Ron Humphrey vs Jon Jones HAH


MW
Jake shields vs Anderson Silva dont waste my time

Hendo vs Marq would be a good fight!

Melvin Manhoef vs Vitor Belfort = Vitor

Mayhem vs Damian Maia would be a good fight but Maia taking it

Jacare Souza vs Rich Franklin easy win for Rich

Nick Diaz VS GSP would be a good fight ending in nasty GnP for GSP

Tyron Woodley vs Fitch Joke

Marius Zaromskis... vs Kos..... no.....

and that was only 3 and we still have DAn Hardy and Thaigo Alves.... 

LW
Melendez vs BJ Penn Biggest joke

Josh Thomson vs Kenny Florian YEA RIGHT

KJ Noons vs vs Edger joke

Billy Evangelista vs Maynard JOKE....



I cant believe this is even a conversation alone a actual Debate...


----------



## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Machida Karate said:


> Brett Rogers vs Mir.... Mir takes it
> Fabricio Werdum already lost several times would easily lose to Big Nog
> 
> Alistar Overeem, (UFC almost owns)- wouldn't have a tough fight against CAin
> ...


If you refused to notice I definitely didnt pick the matchups, I said it was top 5 vs. top 5 and never put the top 5 guys in order from SF, you obviously picked the best matchups for the UFC in this so yes, in this case it would be bad for SF if you were the match maker. 

You think Nog would beat Werdum easily? I dont..
Josh Thomson vs. KenFlo would be a joke? Not really
Melendez vs. BJ Penn? not a joke Gilbert would do much better than Diego did..
Jacare vs. Franklin - in my dreams? Why?


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## GMK13 (Apr 20, 2009)

strikeforce has a pretty good hw division but not even close to the depth of the UFC. unsure about fedor, brock would clean out strikeforces whole hw division.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

GMK13 said:


> strikeforce has a pretty good hw division but not even close to the depth of the UFC. unsure about fedor, brock would clean out strikeforces whole division.


Agreed, other than Fedor, Brock would clean house..

Just like Fedor, not other than Brock, would clean house in the UFC HW division, for obvious reasons..


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## GMK13 (Apr 20, 2009)

Stokes said:


> Agreed, other than Fedor, Brock would clean house..
> 
> Just like Fedor, not other than Brock, would clean house in the UFC HW division, for obvious reasons..


i definitely agree with you there. over all i think UFC takes it, however the competition will do nothing but good for the fans of MMA


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Stokes said:


> If you refused to notice I definitely didnt pick the matchups, I said it was top 5 vs. top 5 and never put the top 5 guys in order from SF, you obviously picked the best matchups for the UFC in this so yes, in this case it would be bad for SF if you were the match maker.
> 
> You think Nog would beat Werdum easily? I dont..
> Josh Thomson vs. KenFlo would be a joke? Not really
> ...


 
Gilbert doing better then Diego... Thats Funny opinion .... And still doesn't mean he would get even CLOSE to beating Bj Penn so OK....

Here is my top 5 in each divison u put the match ups together yourself....

My top 5
HW
1Brock
2Mir
3Nog
4Dos Santos
5Cain 
Shane Carwin

LHW
1Machida
2Shogun
3Rampage
4Rashad
5Jon Jones

MW
1Silva
2Marquart
3Belfor
4Maia
5Sonnen

WW
1GSP
2Alves
3Fitch
4Kos
5Hardy

LW
1BJ
2Kenny
3Diego
4Maynard
5Edger

No matter what way u put it, it makes SF look weak, and were talking ONLY TOP 5 and you can only name 4 in some LOL


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Stokes said:


> Agreed, other than Fedor, Brock would clean house..
> 
> Just like Fedor, not other than Brock, would clean house in the UFC HW division, for obvious reasons..


What about Frank Mir and JDS? Seems like both could easily upset Fedor.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Stokes said:


> What are you trying to imply? That I am simply trying to be different? No, I am simply stating that SF is on equal levels with the UFC in talent. I have been doing so this entire thread, and its not like I havent stated good opinions and facts, I have. You post the same thing every time you respond, End thread blah blah, UFC better blah blah, Ignorant, blah blah. Try giving me a good reason why all the UFC champions would beat all the SF champions, as you stated in a previous post but failed to go into detail on.
> 
> P.S. Changed my avy for you all who think I just hate the UFC, Brock is the man. I am just a realistic fan and know that right now he cannot beat Fedor.


The fact that you're saying "blah blah Ignorant" referring to the fans that are saying the UFC would win shows your bias Stokes. It's not a matter of ignorance when broadened opinions and almost every ranking backs up the claims. In all seriousness, the UFCs top 5 in any weight division against a tournament of SFs top 5 in the same divsion, the UFC would come out on top in all but possibly HW because of Fedor. Even then, Fedor would be fighing nothing BUT UFC fighters because none of their top 5 HWs could hold a candle to the rest of the UFCs top 5. Barring a massive upset or a single good punch, the rest of the SF division would be decimated IMO. The rankings reflect this as well. Just because SF has a few top level fighters in mousasi, Fedor and Hendo does not mean their overall talent pool would defeat the UFCs pool.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Stokes said:


> SF HW > UFC HW
> SF LHW = UFC LHW
> SF MW < UFC MW
> SF WW = UFC WW
> ...





Machida Karate said:


> Gilbert doing better then Diego... Thats Funny opinion .... And still doesn't mean he would get even CLOSE to beating Bj Penn so OK....
> 
> Here is my top 5 in each divison u put the match ups together yourself....
> 
> ...


Read my OP you moron, I already stated that the MW and LW division in the UFC are more stacked, the only point I am arguing with you about the divisions is that you think UFC would just completely clean house in every one of them, which is in fact, bull shit.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Stokes said:


> Read my OP you moron, I already stated that the MW and LW division in the UFC are more stacked, the only point I am arguing with you about the divisions is that you think UFC would just completely clean house in every one of them, which is in fact, bull shit.


 
OH SHOOT i missed the Post where u admitted UFC is more Stacked and Has a Deeper Overall Organization MY BAD

Thought this was UFC vs Strikeforce


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## GMK13 (Apr 20, 2009)

AlphaDawg said:


> What about Frank Mir and JDS? Seems like both could easily upset Fedor.


upset is the keyword there. brock has the best shot due to pure size, the rest dont.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Machida Karate said:


> OH SHOOT i missed the Post where u admitted UFC is more Stacked and Has a Deeper Overall Organization MY BAD
> 
> Thought this was UFC vs Strikeforce


Almost every discussion in this thread has been about Champion vs. Champion, and me defending my opinion about how the divisions stack up against each other. Not once did I say that SF is more stacked than the UFC in every division so if you can find a post of me saying that, I will completely agree with this thread being closed.

Edit: I would also like to add, to all the members who come in here and complain about this being a troll thread, and BS, why are you posting in it if you dislike it so much? Just stay out?


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Stokes said:


> Almost every discussion in this thread has been about Champion vs. Champion, and me defending my opinion about how the divisions stack up against each other. *Not once* did I say that SF is more stacked than the UFC in every division so if you can find a post of me saying that, I will completely agree with this thread being closed.
> 
> Edit: I would also like to add, to all the members who come in here and complain about this being a troll thread, and BS, why are you posting in it if you dislike it so much? Just stay out?


OH OK!

ILL QUOTE YOUR MAIN POST FOR TO THIS WHOLE THREAD!

"*UFC vs. Strikeforce* 
SF HW > UFC HW
SF LHW = UFC LHW
SF MW < UFC MW
SF WW = UFC WW
SF LW < UFC LW

That is my diagram of how I think the divisions stack up against each other, NOT which champion I think would win. If it were done that way, SF would win every bout but LW. 

If it werent for the MW division being so low I would say SF has the exact same caliber fighters as the UFC. Their HW division is tons better. I could see any of their champions beating any of the UFC champions, minus Gilbert beating BJ Penn. Thats it.

Discuss and vote.







"

YOU DON'T EVEN AGREE WITH U!

I GUESS WE SHOULD CLOSE THIS THREAD LIKE U SAID! LOL



"


----------



## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Machida Karate said:


> OH OK!
> 
> ILL QUOTE YOUR MAIN POST FOR TO THIS WHOLE THREAD!
> 
> ...


How do I not agree with me?? In case you didnt know < means less than and > means greater than, while = means equal to. Did you not take Math class while in school?


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Stokes said:


> How do I not agree with me?? In case you didnt know < means less than and > means greater than, while = means equal to. Did you not take Math class while in school?


 
If you didn't POST UFC vs Strikeforce and say I think the divisions stack up against each other, NOT which champion I think would win. If it were done that way, SF would win every bout but LW. 

If it werent for the MW division being so low I would say SF has the exact same caliber fighters as the UFC.


Which is complete BULL, and now that your talking JUST CHAMPS out of no where, it proves you know its BULL too


----------



## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Love how people ignore the logical posts I make and just go on flaming Stokes lol.


Stokes, to a point I see where you're coming from. Do I think the divisions could work out to where SF could win? Yes, but not unless the cards are heavily stacked in their favor, and even then it would take some luck. For instance I cannot see ANYONE in their LHW division defeating Machida, Shogun or Rampage easily. I see a lot of HWs putting up a damn good fight against Fedor, specifically Brock, Mir and JDS could all beat him if they're at the top of their game and with a bit of luck, it's not out of the question. Especially with Brock's sheer size and power, JDS' gorgeous striking and killer power and Mir's new found ability to knock people on their ass and his crazy good submission game. They would all be tough tests for Fedor and, IMO, far better competition he's fought than anyone in SF and anyone he's fought since CC almost 4 years ago (and even then, CC looked like shit in the UFC...). At middle weight, I see NO ONE that could beat Anderson. Henderson tried his best and got beat, not to mention I don't think Hendo would get past Nate at this point. I don't see anyone else in their MW division that could beat anyone in the UFCs MW division with the exception of Chael maybe being beaten by Shields, even then I cannot see Jake getting by Maia, Nate or Belfort at all. At WW I can't see SF winning a single fight with the exception of possibly against Hardy. IMO, no one in their organization would be able to get passed Fitch, Kos or Alves, let alone beating GSP. Shields may put up a decent fight against Fitch, but Fitch is much bigger and has just as good of wrestling and submissions, so I don't see Shields getting past him either. As far as LW goes, it's the only division I see SF winning a few fights. Thompson MIGHT be able to get past Kenny or Frankie but I highly doubt it. Melendez might be able to do the same with Gray and Frankie, but I see him getting wrecked by Kenny. If Gilbert could make it all the way to BJ, I see him getting completely tooled in every facet of the game.


----------



## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Machida Karate said:


> If you didn't POST UFC vs Strikeforce and say I think the divisions stack up against each other, NOT which champion I think would win. If it were done that way, SF would win every bout but LW.
> 
> If it werent for the MW division being so low I would say SF has the exact same caliber fighters as the UFC.
> 
> ...


I originally stated Champion fights in the OP as well, did you miss that? I gave my opinion on how the divisions were stacked and then gave my piece on the championship bouts, which created discussion because of me picking Shields over Silva and Diaz over GSP...

Edit: TraMaI - I know, its really nuts because people come in to this thread and start flaming without reading my OP, and just see my defensive posts and assume to much. Shame, shame, shame...


----------



## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Machida Karate said:


> If you didn't POST UFC vs Strikeforce and say I think the divisions stack up against each other, NOT which champion I think would win. If it were done that way, SF would win every bout but LW.
> 
> If it werent for the MW division being so low I would say SF has the exact same caliber fighters as the UFC.
> 
> ...


Dude, first off you're making yourself look like an ass misinterpreting his post. Second, he's talking champs because everyone ELSE is talking champs. He made his point with divisions.


----------



## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Stokes said:


> I originally stated Champion fights in the OP as well, did you miss that? I gave my opinion on how the divisions were stacked and then gave my piece on the championship bouts, which created discussion because of me picking Shields over Silva and Diaz over GSP...
> 
> Edit: TraMaI - I know, its really nuts because people come in to this thread and start flaming without reading my OP, and just see my defensive posts and assume to much. Shame, shame, shame...


 
Then why did you say "I would take the top 5 fighters from any division in StrikeForce besides the MW division up against the top 5 in the UFC any day. The HW division especially would own the UFC's. Hands down."

If it wernt for that i would of shutted up about SOME champs in SOME divisions....


----------



## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

Machida Karate said:


> OH SHOOT i missed the Post where u admitted UFC is more Stacked and Has a Deeper Overall Organization MY BAD
> 
> Thought this was UFC vs Strikeforce





Stokes said:


> Almost every discussion in this thread has been about Champion vs. Champion, and me defending my opinion about how the divisions stack up against each other. Not once did I say that SF is more stacked than the UFC in every division so if you can find a post of me saying that, I will completely agree with this thread being closed.
> 
> Edit: I would also like to add, to all the members who come in here and complain about this being a troll thread, and BS, why are you posting in it if you dislike it so much? Just stay out?


Jesus both of you!
When you compare the two organizations you have to compare the champions as well. The two subjects are fundamentally linked in that the champion represents the potential and overall skill level of that weight class on each promotion. 

Gegard represents the potential of LHW in Strikeforce, Lyoto in the UFC. Fedor represents the potential of HW in Strikeforce and Brock in the UFC, etc. 

The only case where measuring champ vs champ is not included is in the determination of the number of skilled fighters. In that case the UFC seems to win overall, though there is alot of-obvious-debate on each individual encounter. But that happens on a thousand different threats on a thousand differnt websites. 

IN all honestly to compare which organiation is better, all you have to do is compare annual profits and viewership. That'll determine which is better. And come the hell on! You bicker worse than Toxic and Khov


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

stokes-[I would take the top 5 fighters from any division in StrikeForce besides the MW division up against the top 5 in the UFC any day. The HW division especially would own the UFC's. Hands down.]

still haven't backed up this claim, never mind the fact that you list sf and ufc ww and lhw div as equal and still haven't bothered to explain how.

stokes-[*If it werent for the MW division being so low I would say SF has the exact same caliber fighters as the UFC.*]


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Jesus both of you!
> When you compare the two organizations you have to compare the champions as well. The two subjects are fundamentally linked in that the champion represents the potential and overall skill level of that weight class on each show.
> 
> Gegard represents the potential of LHW in Strikeforce, Lyoto in the UFC. Fedor represents the potential of HW in Strikeforce and Brock in the UFC, etc.
> ...


Then why is he Arguing when all i ever said was UFC has overall WAy more Talent and is Deeper in every Weight Division.

And all he said is that i think that way because im a nutthugging UFC fan...

HE didnt say I don't believe that because he said it himself...

"I would take the top 5 fighters from any division in StrikeForce besides the MW division up against the top 5 in the UFC any day. The HW division especially would own the UFC's. Hands down"


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

It is hilarious how people get so worked up over all of this.

One thing that I can come away with a major laugh from is the fact that it has been said Diaz would beat GSP and that SFs WWs are on par with the UFCs WWs. Funniest thing I have ever heard on the internet.

Thanks for the laughs! Seriously!


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## JACro (Aug 12, 2009)

Stokes said:


> Sure man.
> 
> HW Division
> 
> Brett Rogers - he KO'd arlovski, has a great chin only loss is Fedor which means next to nothing and he is a Lesnar size HW, without the same wrestling skills but much better hands.


You mention Arlovski, which is expected since it's his ONLY notable win. Other than that fight I don't think he has really proved himself or had enough fights to make that sort of judgement.

vs Frank Mir - Frank is much more experienced fighter then Rogers and could probably very well stand with him. But most likely this fight would end in submission

vs Noguera - Again, I see this fight going much like Frank Mir, Rogers may have a CHANCE to knock him out, but most likely he will be submitted, or even tkod

vs Brock Lesnar - I think he'd be wrestled to the ground pretty quickly and Gnpd

vs. JDS - JDS has been showing great striking prowess and I honestly think his technique would counter balance Rogers size and he would win via KO.

He would have competitive match ups against Carwin, and Velaquez but I still see them pulling through.

I think even Roy Nelson would submit him. :S Brett Rogers in my mind is like the beardless Kimbo Slice.



> Fabricio Werdum - went 2-2 in the UFC last time but honestly he TKO'd Gonzaga who was considered a top 5 HW at the time and TKO'd the Truth...who is now a LHW but still beat him at his own game..he would still do very well in the UFC HW division


Werdum has already been beaten by Arvloski, Noguera, and Junior Dos Santos. Brandon Vera is now a light heavy-weight because he just wasn't big enough to compete with people like Werdum. You mention his other win Gonzaga and say he was "top 5" but do you know WHY he was top 5? because he got OVERHYPED after beating(it hurts my heart to say it) an over the hill under-motivated Cro Cop. Werdum certainly COULD compete in the UFC but in my honest opinion he is gate-keeper level at best.



> Alistair Overeem - hasnt fought in SF in a while but is considered their HW champion so he has to be mentioned...no need explaining why he would do well in the UFC his fight record explains just that..huge cut fighter would pose some serious problems in the UFC HW


You say his fight record will explain it but as of late he has ONLY fought cans. His last SIX fights if you check the records they have tons of recent losses, nothing to be proud of. Do you eveb know who he beat for Strikeforce HW title? Paul Buentello... Woohoo:confused02: Have you even checked this guys record?
Before those last 7 fights he has a mixed record of mostly losses in LIGHT HEAVY WEIGHT division. I'd say his wins are 
the ONLY notable victory this guy has ever had is against Vitor Belfort... sorry I don't think he's got what it takes.



> Fedor - no need to explain, you already know that NOBODY in that UFC HW division or any other HW division is gonna beat him right now. I will agree that Brock has the tools to do it but his skill set isnt where it needs to be currently to pull it off...give it a couple years and maybe.


I already said Fedor is amazing would love to see him in UFC.. ok so 1 out of 4 so far.



> Bigfoot Silva - very strong and good hands out of all the HW this is the only one who I dont see being in the top 5 in the UFC..however I still believe he could beat a top 5 ufc HW..



Notable wins- a SPLIT decision over Ricco Rodriguez(who isn't even top 10) he's big and that's about it, seems you're getting a little desperate with this pick. I can see even the lower tier top fights beating him...
all in all 1/5


> LHW division
> 
> Gegard Mousasi - definitely be top 3 in the UFC LHW division...could see him beating Machida or see him losing to Machida that fight would be epic but he definitely has the skills to beat Lyoto, I dont believe he could beat Shogun but thats also a possibility, any other LHW I could see him beating..


Could fight competively as I've said, would be suprised if he got a few wins in the UFC tops... 1/5 so far



> King Mo - dudes wrestling is off the charts and he has sick KO power...he would be in the same class as rashad, rampage, etc.


Honestly... this guy has only 6 wins under his belt and the only notable one is Mike Whitehead.. Which most of the fight was standing.. You say he had SICK wrestling but he only has ONE fight in strikeforce which was a standing KO so I am wondering where you draw this conclusion from.. have you ever seen him wrestle a good wrestler?
Maybe one day King Mo will be competitive in the LHW division but now is not the time he would get ktfo by any of the top LHW infact I'm having trouble thinking of an opponent he COULD beat other then maybe Luiz Cane.



> Kevin Randleman - he is really a hit or miss, either he excels greatly or is an epic fail..unfortunate because the talent is definitely there


 Not to diss Randleman because he's a beast and I absolutely loved him in Pride... BUT his win/loss ratio is nearly 1:1 and he has already lost to many LHWs in the UFC such as: Shogun, Rampage, Liddell and Randy Couture. I have a hard time believing he can compete with the best, he'd be a Gate keeper at BEST.



> Babalu - he did well in the UFC he got TKO'd by chuck liddell in Chucks PRIME, people forget shit like that the UFC did not get rid of Babalu for performance they got rid of him for a stunt he pulled in a fight..chokin a guy out and holding the choke entirely too long..Jason Lambert KO'd him but honestly that was a Serra/gsp KO babalu got caught..he is a much better fighter than jason lambert is..he would do well in the LHW division and I could see him being in the top 5


He had his chance in the UFC and he did well, Wouldn't mind seeing him come over but again I can't see him hanging with the best of the day. as for saying he beat chuck in his prime FIRSTLY chuck already avenged that lost, and also "Chuck in his prime" is such a subjective term I think Chuck did better in the older days because the talent level was LOWER not because he was any better then he is today.



> Ron Humphrey - great up and comer he would do well in the UFC LHW division eventually he reminds me of a much more experienced houston alexander...if that makes sense?


Only has one fight in SF and it is a loss, also only a 6 fight record with all cans.. Like your last list this last fighter seems like a desperate attempt to make your 5 person list. You honeslty think this guy could hang with ANY LHW in the ufc?.. + isnt he a heavy weight, lol nice try



> MW Division
> 
> Jake Shields - has the skillset required to be GREAT in the UFC MW division..his BJJ is off the charts he can hold is own against anyone on the ground and striking he is decent, never been finished..
> 
> Hendo - no explanation needed he was already very successfull in the UFC MW division...only loss was to anderson silva and it was because of a poor decision on his part..


said my peace about these fighter in my last post


> Melvin Manhoef - absolutely insane striking his ground game isnt great but its not terrible and he could finish a lot of fighters in the UFC mw division..


He could very well be competive striking with many of the UFC MW but could he outstrike Marquart? Could he handle not being submited by maia and sonnen? I personally dont think so, and Andy would be reminiscent of Forrest imo quick knockout.. He could be a gate keeper in the UFC for sure but nothing more.



> Mayhem Miller - everyone forgets that mayhem took GSP to a decision...he is very solid on the ground and his striking is good enough to keep him alive till it goes to the ground..he could be top 5 in the UFC mw division..


I would like to see Miller in the UFC he could certainly hold his own and would be competitive I agree. 3/5



> Jacare Souza - he is just warming up in his fight career dude is beast and he would excel greatly in the UFC MW division..


Couldn't agree more. He is showing so much talent I can't wait for him to get some more fights and hopefully get to the UFC He has the potential. 4/5 is a nice turn out. But still in my opinion none of them could beat A.Silva



> WW Division
> 
> Nick Diaz - could see him beat any of the WW fighters in the UFC, GSP would be his toughest test obviously but his boxing has improved (undefeated pro boxer) and he earned his bjj black belt since leaving the UFC under Cesar Gracie...
> 
> Tyron Woodley - great camp, fantastic wrestling reminds me of matt hughes a lot but hes black and doesnt have as much experience...he might not be top 5 in the ufc ww division right off the bat but he could beat a top 5 fighter over there and eventually would be top 5 for sure


Already covered these two in last post. Woodley has a LOT more to prove. Also you keep on bringing up Diaz's undefeated boxing record... I just NEED to point this out.

HES ONLY HAS ONE ******* BOXING MATCH. :confused02:



> Marius Zaromskis - the ww version of Cro Cop..who hasnt gone over the hill yet...no more needs to be said.


He's got a decent record but has not fight anyone worth mentioning and still has A LOT to prove. I think much more 
needs to be said if you want to justify him in the UFC.



> Jay Hieron - would be a gatekeeper...dont see him being great but dont see him losing to everyone...he could beat some good WW in the UFC but none top 5 as of now...


 You said it yourself.  Can't beat any of the top 5 ISNT THAT WHAT WE'RE DEBATING????? his only notable win is over Brad Blackburn and he just recently got owned by Amir...

hmm that was only 4 and the verdict is... 1/4



> did a complete breakdown of LW fighters as well but was signed out because it was taking a long time to post this.. to make it short
> 
> Gilbert melendez, Josh Thomson, KJ Noons, and Billy Evangelista would all do well in the LW division none of them would beat BJ Penn of course but I could see them doing just fine and also beating top 5 fighters from the division...


Do you forget how stacked LW is? Kenny Florian would outstrike all of those guys. Diego Sanchez would out heart any of those fighters and ofcourse BJ penn.

Josh Thomson and Gilbert Melendez I can see hanging in the UFC with SOME of them but not making to the top

Kj Noons last two wins were good but he would only be a gatekeeper in the UFC and hasn't REALLY proven himself

Billy may have a unbeaten record but he still has a lot to prove. Most of his fights GO TO DECISION which is never a good sign.. so lw I saw 2, maybe 3 out of 4.. and no fifth. 


So let's break this down

HW - 1/5
LHW - 2/5
MW - 4/5
WW - 1/4 
LW - 3/4

Notice no fifths on those last two, hence my point about division depth..

This took a long time to write up haha, I'm not hating on you either just trying to have a intelligent debate.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> Dude, first off you're making yourself look like an ass misinterpreting his post. Second, he's talking champs because everyone ELSE is talking champs. He made his point with divisions.


He asks too many questions. I guarantee if I had Mousasi losing to Lyoto he would be on my side. :laugh:



Machida Karate said:


> Then why did you say "I would take the top 5 fighters from any division in StrikeForce besides the MW division up against the top 5 in the UFC any day. The HW division especially would own the UFC's. Hands down."
> 
> If it wernt for that i would of shutted up about SOME champs in SOME divisions....


I would take the top 5 from each division besides the MW because I am trying to stress that the skill gap is not as far as you all believe it to be, and that you will be thoroughly disappointed with the outcome if, like you, people think UFC wins 5/5 champion fights..you also stated EASILY 5/5, which means lyoto kills mousasi, brock kills fedor, penn kills melendez (ill give you that one) gsp kills diaz, and silva kills shields. Your logic is, well, you dont seem to have any. Read thoroughly before responding please.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

Machida Karate said:


> Then why is he Arguing when all i ever said was UFC has overall WAy more Talent and is Deeper in every Weight Division.
> 
> And all he said is that i think that way because im a nutthugging UFC fan...
> 
> ...


I don't know what to tell you man. You're keeping it going just as much as he is. Just let it go. You can't educate everyone!:thumb02:


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## JACro (Aug 12, 2009)

Stokes said:


> He asks too many questions. I guarantee if I had Mousasi losing to Lyoto he would be on my side. :laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> I would take the top 5 from each division besides the MW because I am trying to stress that the skill gap is not as far as you all believe it to be, and that you will be thoroughly disappointed with the outcome if, like you, people think UFC wins 5/5 champion fights..you also stated EASILY 5/5, which means lyoto kills mousasi, brock kills fedor, penn kills melendez (ill give you that one) gsp kills diaz, and silva kills shields. Your logic is, well, you dont seem to have any. Read thoroughly before responding please.


Haha it's funny how MW is the only division I really gave a chance and you say it's the worst. XD


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

UFC LHW is stacked.... after Mousasi who you got in SF, how many top 5s in LHW has Gegard faced or beaten, honestly he isnt even a proven champion.... anybody that thinks they are equal or close is :confused03:

they got a MW champ who is really a WW and couldnt be top 3 in the UFC at WW imo so i dont see how that division is close.

I really like Diaz but am very unsure how he would fair vs Fitch, Alves or KOS atm and after Diaz the talent level really falls off in SF, altho i admittedly dont know much about Whitemare

I like the SF LWs. Too bad UFC top LWs are ridiculous aswell. I think its closer then most divisions but UFC has an edge.

AT hw its all up for grabs. Division is so weak one fighter making a big push could put it over the top for either Org. If Carwin, Cain or JDS live up to the hype and even only 1 added to that top Brock, Mir, Nog threesome then i saw UFC has the edge over Overriods who wont fight, Fedor who is #1 but only fights two times a year and not vs top 5s as SF really doesnt have any and Werdum who already got devastated by JDS in the UFC. But if Werdum, Rogers or Silva can go on a tear it would make the divisions close. Problem is after those top guys SF has i dont see much else.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

JAcro just had the best post of this thread. Everything is explained in logic or facts. Because the truth of the matter is much of SFs talent has been fighters that were average in the UFC or beaten sseveral times by UFC fighters. Diaz, Lawler, Sobral, Werdum, Randleman (lol), among others. In a Champ vs Champ format I believe SF would hands down lose to BJ, GSP, and Anderson. They have a chance at LHW, and Fedor would be the favorite at HW. So they would do alright in that format but at BEST I see them losing 3-2. To go down the rest of the talent comparing top 5s or 10s of each division UFC is better hands down and its not even debatable. Guys that never fought for a title like Anothony Johnson, Kos, Maynard, Jon Jones, JSD, Cain, Carwin...would all get title shots in SF and maybe would be champs.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

LOL before u could finish that post Jacro, He already changed his mind, he doesn't think the WHOLE SF now, JUST SOME Chams in SOME division LOL! 

We should change the name now that the opinion on the Thread Changed its not UFC vs Strikeforce anymore just SOME UFC champs and SOME SF Champs now


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

*...UFC for sure...*

...I agree with most. Strikeforce's talent pool is nowhere near as deep as the UFC's. Truly the UFC is the Superbowl of MMA. For Strikeforce, they are gaining ground pretty fast. For only being around 4 years or so, their talent pool is stacking up quickly with big names. The new additions like King Mo, Lashley, Fedor, Henderson, Walker (curious to see how he does.) If Hershel Walker gets a big KO, that would be kinda cool...:thumbsup: 
...This will be a defining year for Strikeforce. The UFC's cards 110-113 are pretty awesome, so we are all in store for an amazing MMA year. Maybe the best ever...
... I think tonight's event in Miami will be electric with good fights and most likely KO's & TKO's to boot. Strikeforce is definitely a solid 2nd place. Bas Rutten seems to think Strikeforce might eventually catch up with the UFC. It doesn't seem likely when you wearout the HP Pavilion. UFC is global. I think the only way they could ever catch up to the UFC is if they went global as well...


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Stokes said:


> He asks too many questions. I guarantee if I had Mousasi losing to Lyoto he would be on my side. :laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> I would take the top 5 from each division besides the MW because I am trying to stress that the skill gap is not as far as you all believe it to be, and that you will be thoroughly disappointed with the outcome if, like you, people think UFC wins 5/5 champion fights..you also stated EASILY 5/5, which means lyoto kills mousasi, brock kills fedor, penn kills melendez (ill give you that one) gsp kills diaz, and silva kills shields. Your logic is, well, you dont seem to have any. Read thoroughly before responding please.


 

I Would like a quote from where i said that... And i do think Brock vs Fedor IMO would be 60% Brock to win and 40% Fedor, because i dont think Fedor has fought someone like Brock and Brock the same so i dont know bout that one....

I also think Machida would beat Mousasi if he came to UFC, i would bet Money on it, and all the rest to me are obvious,

When i say UFC would beat SF champs easily, i dont think every fight would be easy, i think UFC would win overall easily.... So what?

You flat out said top 5 in EVERY weight... And MW being hard... Then u changed it like who knows how many times.....

I just read your original thoughts so i look at your first posts... I dont read somewhere in the middle where u changed your mind to CHamp Only.... LOL


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

Machida Karate said:


> I Would like a quote from where i said that... And i do think Brock vs Fedor IMO would be 60% Brock to win and 40% Fedor, because i dont think Fedor has fought someone like Brock and Brock the same so i dont know bout that one....
> 
> I also think Machida would beat Mousasi if he came to UFC, i would bet Money on it, and all the rest to me are obvious,
> 
> ...


And the viscious cycle continues...God I hope this thread dies soon. Unlikely since its kind of hotbutton right now...


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Squirrelfighter said:


> I don't know what to tell you man. You're keeping it going just as much as he is. Just let it go. You can't educate everyone!:thumb02:





Squirrelfighter said:


> And the viscious cycle continues...God I hope this thread dies soon. Unlikely since its kind of hotbutton right now...


 

You guys are right im this time 100% done.... There has already been enough breakdowns and posts proving this Thread wrong to hell....
:sarcastic07:

And in the proccess to many people taking back shit they said.:angry02:


You cant educate them all DARN! :fight03:


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Machida Karate said:


> *LOL before u could finish that post Jacro, He already changed his mind, he doesn't think the WHOLE SF now, JUST SOME Chams in SOME division LOL! *
> 
> We should change the name now that the opinion on the Thread Changed its not UFC vs Strikeforce anymore just SOME UFC champs and SOME SF Champs now


When did I say "some champs in some divisions" you illiterate tool?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Keep it civil or this thread will disapeer quick guys.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Keep it civil or this thread will disapeer quick guys.


This thread is dead. I'll eat crow this time...


CLOSED.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Machida Karate said:


> LOL before u could finish that post Jacro, He already changed his mind, he doesn't think the WHOLE SF now, JUST SOME Chams in SOME division LOL!
> 
> We should change the name now that the opinion on the Thread Changed its not UFC vs Strikeforce anymore just SOME UFC champs and SOME SF Champs now


That's what he's been saying the whole time, Jesus how do you not understand that?


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## daveh98 (May 26, 2007)

I don't know why people don't just enjoy increased combat sport competition. The UFC, to me, has taken some turns for the worse. I have thoroughly enjoyed the showtime SF competitions. I like watching some of their up and comers (and they are there). The fights are pretty exciting. At least for me, I place high value on watching combat sports of all form (HBO/Showtime Boxing, UFC, SF, et al). I guess I am just enjoying it more than the average. There is no "who is better X" conversations I have because I know a few things:
1. Styles make fights
2. MMA is new and the quick rise and fall of champions means anything really can happen at this point
3. UFC needs to pay their fighters better
4. Competition is good
5. Boxing, UFC and SF are sweet to enjoy as a fighter myself...and also a fan.


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## DaveDiaz (Jan 31, 2010)

lol. UFC way better in all divisions, talent and depth. I love mma of all kinds but you are way off. Strikeforce has nothing to offer UFC.

Fedor- dont have to say much there.
Werdum- not even a top 10 HW, JDS wrecked him
Rogers- IMO very overrated, 1 dimensional. Barely top 10.
Big Foot- Wow, Hasnt done jack. maybe not even top 20
AO- I love the guy, but he hasnt beaten a top 10HW mma. He's barely a top 10 either.

Lesner- Not a fan but a beast. Not much more to say
Mir- Former HW champ. Recent wins over #3 Nog,#2 Lesner.
Nog- Legend, no more say
JDS- Pobbible UFC future Champ.
Cain- Top 10 young prospect.
Not too mention depth. Struve, GG, Bontello, Yvel, Barry, Kongo, etc. not even close.


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## GMK13 (Apr 20, 2009)

why was stokes banned?


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

GMK13 said:


> why was stokes banned?


He asked to be banned, in short.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

basically what Khov said.


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