# How long does it take to acheive good cardio?



## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

A lot of complaints about Shogun fighting Chuck in three months is that it is not enough time for Shogun to get his cardio to where it should be? 

So with that said, what would his cardio look like if he worked on it for three months compared to what it looked like in the Coleman fight? 

Also, how much time would Shogun need to get his cardio to where it should be?


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

That's the thing these complainers don't make sense about.. if you work like an animal, 3 months without injury is plenty of time to get your cardio up to par, unless you're seriously fat out of shape. I've noticed a major difference in just 3 weeks. It's also a lot of time to fall out of shape. If you're out of action for just 3 months and you get back into it.. running a damn mile feels like a marathon.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Shogun should be able to get his cardio back up. It really could have a lot to do with not fighting for so long. There is a difference between training, sparring, and fighting. Being in a fight zaps your cardio way more then doing training or sparring does.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

yeh i don't think it has so much to do w/ being 'out of shape' phsyically...but more mentally....you forget how to calm yourself down, your thought process during a fight, how to pace yourself, etc gets screwed up


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

Bonnar426 said:


> A lot of complaints about Shogun fighting Chuck in three months is that it is not enough time for Shogun to get his cardio to where it should be?
> 
> So with that said, what would his cardio look like if he worked on it for three months compared to what it looked like in the Coleman fight?
> 
> Also, how much time would Shogun need to get his cardio to where it should be?


Personally i think 3 months is ample time. Short of an injury i dont see any excuse for showing up in poor condition. This is their career, its something theyre supposed to love doing. If they dont have the motivation to train adequately then maybe they should consider another career. I mean getting in the cage for an MMA bout in poor shape,to face someone who's trying to knock you the phuck out is just chicken oriental!


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## neoseeker (Jun 16, 2007)

That's an interesting question. I'm no expert but considering he just fought a very exhausting fight, for which we assume he trained, if he trains religiously for the next 10 weeks I believe we shall see an improvement.


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## randyspankstito (Sep 25, 2006)

Three months is definitely plenty of time, especially if are allready in ok shape, like shogun is. He looked bad on saturday, but I'd say he 's probably in better shape than 95% of americans. 

If he's injury free he should be able to go three rounds all out, no prob by april. If he has to make excuses after that? Well, he better be pretty creative.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Exactly Aaronyman I mean I stopped training BJJ for about a year to focus on Lacrosse and I did cardio everyday for lacrosse but when I went back to the gym and started rolling again I would gas because it's just different. And I'm sure it's the same with having a fight.


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

A lot of it is physical limitation. Some dudes have good, big hearts, some don't. Some people, no matter how much cardio they do, will never be a cardio machine. Others will be one without much work at all.

That's especially true as you put on muscle - you can grow bigger muscles, but you can't really grow a bigger heart to support them.


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

Edit: Sorry, connection probs made me double-post.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> Exactly Aaronyman I mean I stopped training BJJ for about a year to focus on Lacrosse and I did cardio everyday for lacrosse but when I went back to the gym and started rolling again I would gas because it's just different. And I'm sure it's the same with having a fight.


I got really frustrated the last time we were doing self-defense renduri, b/c the takedowns, rolls, falls, holds, attempts to scramble, etc. left me drained and I was saying "How the f*ck can I run 5 miles, but this is tiring me out so fast?" It is very different. 

Presumably a fighter who had problems gassing early in the fight would be concentrating on duplicating that time frame in sparring, just like boxers sometimes sprint for 3 minutes every mile in an attempt to duplicate the surge of intensity that one round of boxing would require.


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## Tommy08 (Feb 2, 2007)

Cardio is in part genetics. There are always people who are more gifted. They are not always the ones with the greatest success though. Hard work counts for more than just havijng an ability and to be competitive at high levels you need lots of ahrd work and some gift at least.

From experience 3 months is enough time to setup a foundation and accomplish big gains in cardio. But to really push it up it to a very competitve level can take years even. I think 3 months can lay a base, and 1-2 years really builds up on it whihc tends to coincide with building up skill. Then its a matter of maintaining it at a reasonable level- followed by the 6-12 week pre-fight-prep time based on your personal ability.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

swpthleg said:


> I got really frustrated the last time we were doing self-defense renduri, b/c the takedowns, rolls, falls, holds, attempts to scramble, etc. left me drained and I was saying "How the f*ck can I run 5 miles, but this is tiring me out so fast?" It is very different.
> 
> Presumably a fighter who had problems gassing early in the fight would be concentrating on duplicating that time frame in sparring, just like boxers sometimes sprint for 3 minutes every mile in an attempt to duplicate the surge of intensity that one round of boxing would require.


Yea but it's not the same. It's kinda like in a sport the first few games of the season can be tough because it's a different level of intensity then training is.

Not fighting in over a year and then getting back in there has gotta be tough on his cardio. I've never fought only sparred and rolled but I assume it would be a whole different level of intensity.


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## TheBrickhouse (Mar 27, 2008)

Remember he just got fully cleared back in November so that's why his cardio was a little lack luster and in the Forrest fight he could barely run or train at all before the fight because he had a ruptured acl that he fought with!

If he religious trains though for the next 12 weeks for chuck he will be more than ready for this one. Just has too get his strength back in his knee even more and not have anymore injuries. I don't think he has a Strength Coach now so he should get one to push him even harder! The thing is he's the best one at his gym so who can really push him? 

My opinion Wandy should fight on that same card and they should train together to push each other to another level and also Shogun needs to impelment his snorkel training for conditioning and use his Strength Coach if possible! Cuz Ninja can't push him at all lol! He's just a punching bag for him! Also bring Anderson Silva into the training team he's on that card as well. Those 3 together training hard would be an awesome training camp!


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Something I realized and I really wanted to make a thread on it but I figured that there are enough Shogun threads right now is guys with great gas tanks have gassed in their first fight back in over year layoffs before.

Lindland took a year off before Negao gassed, Tito took a year off before the fight with Forrest and he looked gassed by the end of the fight which is crazy because Tito's cardio is crazy.

Sitting out a year and then fighting is tough on your cardio.


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## Ashilles (Aug 19, 2008)

I run a strength and conditioning business specialising in performance improvement.
I'll try to keep this short and sweet and if anyone disagrees or has a qustion just reply to this post.

Vo2 max can be achieved within six months. that is the maximum amount of oxygen the body can take in a utilize.
Anaerobic threshold can be continually improved for years. Anaerobic threshold refers to the body's abilty to work at a particular intensity.

Shogun is limited by his anaerobic threshold (like hitting the wall). Good cardio is a combination of all three energy systems working in conjunction, that is
oxygen phosphorylation
glycoltic energy system
Phospho-creatine anaerobic energy system.

Fighting is mainly intermittent anaerobic (sprint work) and therefore it will take many many months to reach that top level. 3 months is fine to improve running or rowing or swimming performance where you can find an economy of movement (a rhythym or riddum) because the body will actively recover as you are doing it.

Fighting is a different animal with constant use of your higher octane fuels as well as oxygen for adenosine triphosphate production (ATP the energy currency of the body). 

To work at that intensity shogun needs to improve his anaerobic threshold. Cardio he is fine but three months is not enough time to build or extend his anaerobic threshold to work at a high intensity.
If the fight is fast pace he will tire, if not he should actively recover and not gas so early.
The only way to truly be at that top level is more fighting and being pushed more in training doing high level intermittent sprint activity.

in short he should be okay, but wont be at that top level in three months. If liddell has the cardio and pushes the pace shogun will tire and then i think it is lights out.

bbjd7, aaronyman and swpthleg repped for being on the button.


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## cezwan (Dec 7, 2007)

Ashilles said:


> I run a strength and conditioning business specialising in performance improvement.
> I'll try to keep this short and sweet and if anyone disagrees or has a qustion just reply to this post.
> 
> Vo2 max can be achieved within six months. that is the maximum amount of oxygen the body can take in a utilize.
> ...


dude, repped for the lesson on strength and conditioning..

holy crap you know your shit..


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Wow, thanks for this great input Ashilles.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Im gonna rep a few of you when i can because this thread actually taught me something. :thumb02:


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## Ashilles (Aug 19, 2008)

cheers guys happy to help
hopefully i can decrease the size of my big bad rep bar, i made one comment to fedor>all and he slaughtered me....ah well such is life 

edit: hooray im in the green again


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Ashilles said:


> cheers guys happy to help
> hopefully i can decrease the size of my big bad rep bar, i made one comment to fedor>all and he slaughtered me....ah well such is life
> 
> edit: hooray im in the green again


Hah
How do you think i got my red bar??? you get in a argument with that guy and magically your bar turns red :thumb02:


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## Ashilles (Aug 19, 2008)

yeah don't worry ill make it my personal mission to get you green, just don't piss that guy off again


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