# ***OFFICIAL*** Brock Lesnar vs Shane Carwin Pre/Post Fight



## dudeabides

*Please conduct ALL of your discussion in regards to Brock Lesnar facing Shane Carwin at UFC 116 for the UFC Heavyweight Championship in this thread. All threads made in regards to this fight will be merged into this one.*​


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## UrbanBounca

I hope Brock GnP's Carwin through the floor.


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## Guymay

I think it will all come down to if brock untested Chin can take anything from carwin , if not carwin will put him to sleep at Round 2 .


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## luckbox

It all comes down to the TDD of Shane Carwin. He is a strong guy, but can he stuff the freight train that is Brock Lesnar from taking him to the floor? I don't think so. I think Carwins wrestling will be exposed badly, I can't see him mathcing the much faster and more agile Lesnar. Brocks GnP can put anybody to sleep, and even though Carwin is tough as nails, I see him taking a nap. 1st or 2nd round.


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## K R Y

Carwin. He'll connect and Brock will crumple.


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## GMK13

i hear alot of talk about his striking but i dont think brock will have to worry about it to much if he keeps moving like he always does, hes gonna take it to the ground and try to end it tko like he did to frank. i think he takes it 3rd round tko.


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## Danm2501

If Brock sticks to a gameplan it's his fight to lose. He is superior in wrestling, speed, agility, athleticism, reach and strength. The only advantage I think Carwin has is punching power. If Brock uses his speed and reach to stay out of Carwins striking range, and then mixes up his levels with the takedowns he should take the fight, probably by TKO in the 2nd or 3rd. However, if Carwin does land a big power punch on Brock's chin it will be lights out. Really could go either way.


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## deadmanshand

Danm2501 said:


> If Brock sticks to a gameplan it's his fight to lose. He is superior in wrestling, speed, agility, athleticism, reach and strength. The only advantage I think Carwin has is punching power. If Brock uses his speed and reach to stay out of Carwins striking range, and then mixes up his levels with the takedowns he should take the fight, probably by TKO in the 2nd or 3rd. However, if Carwin does land a big power punch on Brock's chin it will be lights out. Really could go either way.


Sums up my thoughts pretty well.


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## osmium

I think Brock should and will win this fight. The layoff and illness are big variables but I don't think it will matter.


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## Spec0688

WHAT A ******* FIGHT!

I cannot wait for this fight, and what a perfect weekend to have it , LONG WEEKEND!

I voted Brock Lesnar, Damn2501 summed it up pretty well.


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## capsal

i cant wait for Lesnar to get kocked out into lala land aka Bisbing when he got Hendoed. Then I will come back here to see all the Lesnar groupies in a state of confusion! The only chance he has is to take him down and sit on him like he did to Mir but a have a hunch the fight wont go that way.


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## Shorty

I really hope that Carwin Lands a clean shot on Brock and Brock just shrugs it off like it never happened.

Would just add to Brocks Aura that he is an unstopable beast/ freak with a chin like a block of concrete


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## Dream-On-101

This is Brocks fight to loose, i have talked about it so much already there isnt much more to say. I just want to see it! 

Brock Lesnar will win this fight. By stoppage. 2nd round.


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## boney

Shorty said:


> I really hope that Carwin Lands a clean shot on Brock and Brock just shrugs it off like it never happened.
> 
> Would just add to Brocks Aura that he is an unstopable beast/ freak with a chin like a block of concrete


if i remember correctly did'nt randy land a few shots that set his head back a little???

i say carwin by cinderblock to chin.


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## The505Butcher

This fight could go either way as has already been said but I hope Carwin levels Lesnar.

If Brock can just power through Carwin then there is no point watching any more HW championship fights in the UFC because Lesnar will win them all. 

Here is to hoping Carwin keeps the HW division competitive.


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## VAwrestler

luckbox said:


> Brocks GnP can put anybody to sleep, and even though Carwin is tough as nails, I see him taking a nap.QUOTE]
> 
> Put anyone to sleep?? Mir stayed awake the whole time..Carwin is much bigger than Mir (I know Mir bulked up, but he's not a bigger man, there is a difference)
> 
> I agree with capsal, I can't wait to see all the Lesnar nut huggers runnin around with no purpose wondering what will happen next hahaha
> 
> I can't wait to see him get KTFO...and when it happens, I'M gonna crack a beer, and probably crawl on top of my wife haha


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## amoosenamedhank

VAwrestler said:


> luckbox said:
> 
> 
> 
> Brocks GnP can put anybody to sleep, and even though Carwin is tough as nails, I see him taking a nap.QUOTE]
> 
> Put anyone to sleep?? Mir stayed awake the whole time..Carwin is much bigger than Mir (I know Mir bulked up, but he's not a bigger man, there is a difference)
> 
> *I agree with capsal, I can't wait to see all the Lesnar nut huggers runnin around with no purpose wondering what will happen next hahaha *
> 
> I can't wait to see him get KTFO...and when it happens, I'M gonna crack a beer, and probably crawl on top of my wife haha
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure why you think this... everyone who has commented on the fight saying they believe Lesnar will win has also stated that Carwin has the knock out power. I really don't think anyone is going to be surprised if either fighter wins.
> 
> Infact the only thing surprising that could come from this fight is if it ended in a submission...
Click to expand...


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## Calibretto9

Carwin all the way. Go back and watch Couture/Lesnar on UFC.com for free right now, or check out one of the UFC Unleashed episodes and catch the Mir/Lesnar 2 rematch. Lesnar comes off as extremely uncomfortable on the feet. Both Mir and Couture were able to tag him a few times, and this often causes Brock to go for takedowns. Problem is, against Couture Brock wasn't able to get the TD's easily, and Couture was impressively able to get back to his feet on several occassions.

Is Carwin the wrestler that Couture is? Nope. Does Carwin have an additional 45-55 pounds of whoop ass than Couture did in his fight? Yup. Lesnar is going to get tagged on the feet, rocked like crazy, tie up with Carwin, be unable to control him like he does so many others, and fall to Carwin throwing dirty boxing uppercuts that pound Lesnar into unconsciousness.


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## amoosenamedhank

I also think there are 2x more anti Lesnar nut huggers than nut huggers. Most of you guys hate the guy just because you're bored and apparently have nothing better to do. It doesn't matter what this guys does, you've already completely wrote him off.


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## boney

Calibretto9 said:


> Carwin all the way. Go back and watch Couture/Lesnar on UFC.com for free right now, or check out one of the UFC Unleashed episodes and catch the Mir/Lesnar 2 rematch. Lesnar comes off as extremely uncomfortable on the feet. Both Mir and Couture were able to tag him a few times, and this often causes Brock to go for takedowns. Problem is, against Couture Brock wasn't able to get the TD's easily, and Couture was impressively able to get back to his feet on several occassions.
> 
> Is Carwin the wrestler that Couture is? Nope. Does Carwin have an additional 45-55 pounds of whoop ass than Couture did in his fight? Yup. Lesnar is going to get tagged on the feet, rocked like crazy, tie up with Carwin, be unable to control him like he does so many others, and fall to Carwin throwing dirty boxing uppercuts that pound Lesnar into unconsciousness.


THIS^^^^^^^^


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## mastodon2222

I don't hate him I just think he's an unnatural, grotesques looking psycho who is bad for the sport


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## mastodon2222

They're advertised as equally matched up size-wise but I think when they're in the ring that we'll see that Lesnar's noticeably bigger.


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## Avery

i cant predict who wins this fight as many others can but i can predict the scenarios that will happen

Lesnar wins by 2nd round ... ground and pound
Carwin wins by Knockout late 1st ... early 2nd round


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## VAwrestler

amoosenamedhank said:


> I also think there are 2x more anti Lesnar nut huggers than nut huggers. Most of you guys hate the guy just because you're bored and apparently have nothing better to do. It doesn't matter what this guys does, you've already completely wrote him off.


lol kinda hard to write off the champ..I can completely give him the credit that he is due. He uses his size to his advatange and has adapted wrestling to MMA better than most. 

I just agree with the guy a couple spots above me. I think he is bad for the sport. He has admitted himself that the pro wrestler comes out when he gets in the cage. He has no respect and I can't wait to see him absolutely leveled.


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## UrbanBounca

mastodon2222 said:


> I don't hate him I just think he's an unnatural, grotesques looking psycho who is bad for the sport


Unnatural? Psycho? Are you talking about Brock? Why is he bad for the sport?


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## Mike Male$h

UrbanBounca said:


> Unnatural? Psycho? Are you talking about Brock? Why is he bad for the sport?


Not to mention he has your Minnesota accent & that back of the country woods badass feel. I think its going to be a good fight but Brock does look quite bigger but actual strength I believe is close espically with Carwins KO power. 

Has anybody been watching countdown to 116 on spike yet?


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## Fedorbator

*Carwin's wrestling and TDD*

Why does everyone seem to FORGET that Carwin trains under Jackson with GSP and Rashad among other great wrestlers? Has anyone seen footage of that camp? Jackson's gameplan is more of a test for Brock than anything he has to offer Carwin IMO.


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## MrObjective

Fedorbator said:


> Why does everyone seem to FORGET that Carwin trains under Jackson with GSP and Rashad among other great wrestlers? Has anyone seen footage of that camp? Jackson's gameplan is more of a test for Brock than anything he has to offer Carwin IMO.


Carwin is going to be shooting for takedowns on Brock because he trains with Greg Jackson. I don't think so. 

Carwin isn't going for a 5 rounder. If anything, Brock will be trying to put on a GSPesqe performance.

Brock is training to take him down and GnP him. Carwin to close the distance and throw one of his '6 inch punches' as Dan Hardy referred call them. That's their strengths.

Carwin WAS a great wrestler, now he's more of a boxer, maybe he's doing lots of reps to sprawl on Brock takedown attempts and training to work off his back.

He doesn't fight like Rashad or GSP, he's constantly bopping up and down like a boxer. Just waiting to close the distance.


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## Sterl

Lesnar is taking this fight by vicious ground and pound no later than mid round 3. Carwin is as slow as they come and Brock will use his speed and athletic advantage to win this fight.


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## HitOrGetHit

This fight is going to come down to where the fight takes place, and how much the Brock's layoff will affect him come fight time. I am very interested in this fight and it is equally dangerous for both fighters involved.


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## morninglightmt

I just have a mental image in my head of Brock flopping to the canvas like a slab of beef.


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## No_Mercy

Still going with Carwin by TKO. Anybody see an image of Brock powering his way into a submission...lolz!


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## Shoegazer

I picked Brock in the poll, and bet on Carwin for the odds. I see this as a very dangerous fight for both and have a very hard time picking a winner, but have to go with Brock.

The biggest question for me is the long layoff for Brock. I do think Brock has the chin for Carwin's power, but we'll see, because I'm betting he will get punched cleanly at least a couple times by Carwin. I don't see Brock being able to throw him around, but he's definitely bigger, stronger, and faster. 

I seem to recall Gonzaga was winning that round against Carwin - had him stunned with a straight punch to the face and was taking him down with ease - until Carwin caught him flush outta nowhere. To me, this doesn't bode well against Brock. 

I'd definitely love to see Carwin win, but I think Brock is much better than most here seem to think he is.


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## boney

*If One Or The Other Loses.*

WHAT WILL BE LESNERS OR CARWINS . post fight speech be? in the octagon or post fight conference????:confused02::confused02:
will brock admit defeat and be cordial and will carwin do the same??
and i didn'y say exuse..but add it if you would like...


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## Sicilian_Esq

I think either way, the Post-fight speech will be respectful.

Carwin is a class act all around, and Lesnar has elevated himself beyond the classic heel persona in response.


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## Dan0

*A fun little statistic that shows that Carwin should win this saturday*












































Did you catch it?
Every main eventer on the right side of the poster won since 112.














So Carwin by KO?
This is pretty much inevitable, I'm putting mooney on the fight. :thumbsup:


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## LiteGladiator

Haha! This is classic. It has to happen now, the poster has spoken!


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## Hammerlock2.0

We've seen some underdog wins lately, haven't we? At least from a betting standpoint.


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## xRoxaz

I think both will be respectful, there is a method to Brock's madness but if he's defeated he will respect that.


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## amoosenamedhank

Shoegazer said:


> I picked Brock in the poll, and bet on Carwin for the odds. I see this as a very dangerous fight for both and have a very hard time picking a winner, but have to go with Brock.
> 
> The biggest question for me is the long layoff for Brock. I do think Brock has the chin for Carwin's power, but we'll see, because I'm betting he will get punched cleanly at least a couple times by Carwin. I don't see Brock being able to throw him around, but he's definitely bigger, stronger, and faster.
> 
> I seem to recall Gonzaga was winning that round against Carwin - had him stunned with a straight punch to the face and was taking him down with ease - until Carwin caught him flush outta nowhere. To me, this doesn't bode well against Brock.
> 
> I'd definitely love to see Carwin win, but I think Brock is much better than most here seem to think he is.


This is a very good point... everyone is questioning Brock's chin... what about Carwin's? He was rocked pretty good by GG.. Has anyone considered the possibility of Brock tagging Carwin?


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## BD3

"Shane Carwin had a horseshoe up his a--. I told him that a year ago. I pulled the sum b---- out and beat him over the head with it! Waahooo!"


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## coldcall420

Im goin Carwin...screw it....


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## oldfan

I would expect grace from Carwin. I honestly don't know what to expect from Brock. It would be a fascinating look at the real Brock Lezner to see him at a post defeat press conference but I don't think he would attend. heel or not, I think his pride is too big.


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## smokelaw1

I think to a depends on how te fight goes, and how it ends. If someone gets pounded out, I think wither would be respectful. If either is seen as stalling (for example, if brock tastes leather, decides he doesn't like it, and then is able to lock up or lay-n-pray his way to a vicotry) I could see it being less nice.

WHEN Carwin knocks brock TFO, I could see brock saying something like "Damn that guy hits hard. I've never been hit that hard in my life. I trained hard for this fight, I came in in shape, but I got caught tonight. I hope we can do it again soon" or something like this. I got caught, I didn't get out fought, he's not better...just I got caught.


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## coldcall420

*Shane Carwin: 'One of Us Will Need Help Leaving the Octagon' at UFC 116*

http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/06/29/shane-carwin-one-of-us-will-need-help-leaving-the-octagon-at/



> Shane Carwin may not be doing an all-out media blitz in advance of his heavyweight title fight against Brock Lesnar at UFC 116, but that doesn't mean he's not still available to his fans. He communicates with them regularly on his website, Shane-Carwin.com, and even recently posted his salary information for the upcoming title fight. Judging by their reactions online and on Twitter, they reward this accessibility with a fierce loyalty.
> 
> But to find out what's going through his head as he prepares to take on Lesnar in what may now be a bout to determine not only the UFC champ, but also MMA's No. 1 overall heavyweight. MMA Fighting reached out to Carwin over e-mail and got a few interesting responses about where he sees himself in the UFC hierarchy, and what he thinks of Lesnar's take on MMA greats like Fedor Emelianenko.
> 
> The full interview is below.
> 
> *Ben Fowlkes: You're a little over a week from a title fight in what may very well be the most watched UFC pay-per-view of the year. Does it feel like a lot of added pressure as you prepare for this fight? Do you think it will feel different once you're in the cage?*
> 
> 
> Share45
> Shane Carwin: Really, no pressure at all. It feels like a training camp, just one that has a big fight attached to the end of it. I really do not get nervous or anxious. I have either done the work or not. You have made the sacrifice or you have not. I really enjoy the competition. It is the reward for training so hard.
> 
> The only thing that Brock possesses that is different from my other training camps is his size and speed as an opponent. We have taken steps to adjust for this fight and having a year to prepare for this opponent has been great. I am ready.
> 
> *A lot has been made of your decision not to do any media leading up to this fight. Tell me a little bit about what prompted you to make that decision.*
> 
> Well here I am, aren't I? I would say it was more of a limiting then a "not doing". For me, it comes down to time management and with my job, training and family I am just really tight for free time. If you pick one you are leaving many out. I figured I would allow Zuffa to handle the media and selling the fight and I would support whatever they needed.
> *More: UFC 116 Fight Card |* *Shane Carwin Pictures*​*You've made a point of keeping your job as an engineer even as your fight career has taken off. Have you been working regular hours in the weeks leading up to this fight, or did you take time off to focus on training?*
> 
> They work with me on my hours. I am thankful I do not have a job or an employer that expects me to clock in at 8am and out at 5pm. I have a lot of free reign as long as I am doing my job, staying on or ahead of schedule and give them 110 percent when I am not in camp. I have been in camp for a long time (over a year) so I am sure they are ready for me to come back a bit more regularly.
> 
> *You mentioned on your website all the things you've done for Zuffa and you disclosed how much you'll make for this fight (before sponsorships and bonuses). If you win this fight and become the undisputed UFC heavyweight champ, will it be time for a restructuring of your deal with the UFC? Would getting a share of the pay-per-view revenue be part of that?*
> 
> I do not think so. Beating Brock does not make you Brock. I will still need to insult most of the fighters in my division, flip off the fans, insult the biggest sponsors the UFC has and then and only then will I renegotiate with Zuffa. Dana and Lorenzo have taken good care of my family and I. They have given us more than they are obligated to and we are happy.
> 
> My manager always says it is not about making money when you fight but to make money when you are not fighting. We really do not have our hands out for anything more – if it comes we will take it and smile. I love fighting for the UFC and for me I choose to do this, I do not have to fight to survive. I am honored to be working for the UFC and representing them in the "fake" champions category.
> 
> *You also mentioned some push-back from the Zuffa "talking heads" about stepping back from media obligations, but it doesn't seem like Lesnar has ever, even on his best pre-fight weeks, done as much media as you usually do. Do you feel like he gets preferential treatment because he's such a proven draw for the UFC?*
> 
> No, I think that we have had two UFC's, one WEC, Strikeforce, Bellator Finals and a TUF Finale that has occupied the media's attention. I think to say that I am not "selling" a fight when I have been selling this fight for almost a year is pretty asinine. I am not overly worried about the media attention or the fame. I want the best Brock ever on July 3rd. I want a war, and one of us will need help leaving the Octagon. Everyone wants me to finish this fight fast. I would love to be able to show my entire MMA game on July 3rd when the world is watching.
> 
> *You seem to have a really committed, passionate fan base with the "Carwin Army." Why do you think you've generated this ardent following? How much of it has to do with how active you are on your website, interacting with fans and letting them get to know you?*
> 
> Team Carwin is amazing. They are so supportive of me and my sponsors it really is commendable. We tripled Dethrone Royalty's Twittter followers in a few days. I think the credit has to go to the internet. I have a lot of ways to reach my fans and I am less dependent upon people to share my message when I can share it directly with them. The internet has given us the ability to connect with fans like never before and I love hearing what they have to say.
> 
> *Brock has long been annoyed by the fact that, even though he holds the UFC belt, most fans still regard Fedor as the #1 heavyweight [ed. note: This interview was conducted two days before Fedor's loss to Fabricio Werdum]. What would it mean to you to become UFC heavyweight champ? Do you think the UFC champ is necessarily the overall MMA heavyweight champ?*
> 
> Well, Brock's MMA math is limited at best. Fedor is the best heavyweight and possibly one of the best fighters ever. He has been tested and proven over time that he is a real legend. That is my biggest issue with Brock. He likes to take away from others without knowing or thinking about what he is saying.
> 
> We may never know about how well Fedor would do in the UFC. We will have to just live with the fact that for the period of time he was fighting, he was one of, if not the best MMA fighters of his time. Guys like Brock and even myself could learn a lot from Fedor and his work ethics.


Good interview, most say he is dry, I think he is more calculated.....


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## TheBadGuy

Good read, thanks. 

I agree with Carwin about Brock. Why does he discredit other fighters? Fedor haven't said anything bad about Lesnar. Fedor never said that he is the number 1, and better than Brock. 

+rep


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## The505Butcher

Carwin seems ready in his head. Can not wait to see this fight.



amoosenamedhank said:


> This is a very good point... everyone is questioning Brock's chin... what about Carwin's? He was rocked pretty good by GG.. Has anyone considered the possibility of Brock tagging Carwin?


Yeah. The thing is Gonzaga landed two flush strikes to the chin of Carwin which would normally KO anyone. He also took on Super Mir that knocked down Kongo and was not hurt at all. Lesnar has only really hurt Couture standing and that was a flush shot to the temple that did not even KO Randy. Randy was still ok for another 45 hammerfists.

Carwin might get TKOed with GnP but I do not see him KOing Carwin standing.


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## Kado

Damn portugal almost scored.

Wrong tab....

Uhmm Carwin has to win now, or the world will end.


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## The Horticulturist

wooooohoooooo! can't wait! 

I support both guys going forward, but Lesnar is my horse.


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## The Horticulturist

^^^
If hammerfists like the ones from the Randy fight won't work, how about the GNP from Mir II?

I'm watching the UFC 100 hype videos between Lesnar and Mir. Every single thing Lesnar said came true ("I'm going to be smothering his fat little hips on the mat and hit him with fists"), and everything Mir said, was wrong, or unfortunately right for him ("You need to hit harder Brock")

I dunno. I'm pretty incredibly stoked for this fight.


Lesnar is SO YOUNG as a fighter. I wish people would realize that a little more often.


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## oldfan

Great read thanks. I don't think I've ever been so on the fence about a fight. I can't decide who I think will win or who I want to win.

...can't wait.

edit: I for got to include the freakin quote of the year:


> Beating Brock does not make you Brock. I will still need to insult most of the fighters in my division, flip off the fans, insult the biggest sponsors the UFC has and then and only then will I renegotiate with Zuffa. Dana and Lorenzo have taken good care of my family and I. They have given us more than they are obligated to and we are happy.


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## BrutalKO

...Nice read. Carwin isn't much for words but that is a wicked statement. Shane is cool, calm, collective and humble. I've waited and hoped these 2 giants would face each other for a while and now's it on! With Lesnar still being sick just 6 months ago, along with his long lay-off, I think Carwin has a huge advantage and opportunity to win this fight. Carwin wants to force Brock to exchange with him toe to toe. With Carwin's better boxing, more accurate punching, better timing and one-touch KO power, his chances of connecting flush first are much better than Lesnar's. 
...Brock would lose a toe to toe battle and he knows it. I see Lesnar shooting in with massive force for a takedown. If Brock can keep Carwin pinned to the ground, that's his best chance to win by pounding Shane out. On the feet, It's Carwin's fight. I think this fight will epic. Shane has been working on his footspeed with Jon Jones & Rashad Evans. That can be a HUGE factor. We'll just have to see how it plays out. One mistake from either fighter and it's gonna be over quick. I can't wait. I want Shane to win and humble Brock. He certainly needs it...


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## The Horticulturist

He wasn't humbled when he had to tap to Mir, A guy he was pounding on pretty well for a rookie?? Unfortunately for some detractors, he may have had his GSP/Serra moment VERY early on in his career.


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## osmium

SJ said:


> He wasn't humbled when he had to tap to Mir, A guy he was pounding on pretty well for a rookie?? Unfortunately for some detractors, he may have had his GSP/Serra moment VERY early on in his career.


He had his Chonan/Silva moment the Serra/GSP moment will come when JDS makes Brock's skull explode with his fists.


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## Tacx0911

*What if Brock loses?*

What if Brock loses to Shane Carwin? Where would you put Brock on your top heavyweight list?

The last time Brock faced a top wrestler was in the form of Randy Couture. Skill wise Randy was toe to toe with him until he got caught with Brock's lunch boxes. The next outing with Mir though dominant, took him 2 rounds to knock him out. Carwin dominated a bigger and improved frank Mir whose training and conditioning was made specifically to fight bigger opponents.

If Brock losses to Carwin; is Brock then the most overhyped MMA heavyweight of all time?


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## Tacx0911

If Brock loses he's my #1 Overhyped heavyweight of all time. Then it's Brock vs Mir 3, if Mir wins we'll see Fedor vs Lesnar in Strikeforce. Then we'll see JDS vs Velasquez, winner get's Carwin for the UFC Heavyweight Championship. Then the Heavyweight rankings will go crazy! Shit, it's MMA! Anything can happen! Hahaha.


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## The505Butcher

Why does there have to be another thread about this? Seriously? It is just going to be Carwin people saying they think he has all the tools to beat Lesnar and Lesnar people saying Lesnar is just too dominant for anyone out there with the possibility of ring rust.

Brock is top 5 and will be after the fight. If he wins in dominant fasion he is at the top of mine because I do not see anyone being able to stop someone who is as intense as Brock. If he loses by KO is is below Cain IMO because if Carwin can KO him Cain can.


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## Sicilian_Esq

Tacx0911 said:


> If Brock loses he's my #1 Overhyped heavyweight of all time. Then it's Brock vs Mir 3, if Mir wins we'll see Fedor vs Lesnar in Strikeforce. Then we'll see JDS vs Velasquez, winner get's Carwin for the UFC Heavyweight Championship. Then the Heavyweight rankings will go crazy! Shit, it's MMA! Anything can happen! Hahaha.


You do realize that you state Carwin is a can in your humble opinion, correct? That is the only way Brock can be the "overhyped heavyweight of all time." 

So, who would Brock have to lose to in order to receive any credibility in your eyes? B/c Carwin has as good a "strength of schedule" resume as anyone at HW...


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## Dan0

Imagine Shane dropping Brock with a right hand and then putting on a brutal pounding on him until Brock's legs go stiff and he's out cold. Shane then jumps on the fence and celebrates as Brock asks the doctor what happened. 

That's Heaven.


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## jongurley

I would laugh my ass off it brock lost..:thumb02:


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## TheNinja

It's not an upset either way,both of these guys are 265 pound beasts. They have differnt strengths, but they are top 5 heavyweights in the world right now. So losing to one another doesn't change much. I think Carwin should take this fight, he has a better camp, and his hands are like bombs.


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## NotDylan

Tacx0911 said:


> If Brock losses to Carwin; is Brock then the most overhyped MMA heavyweight of all time?


Everyone Carwin has touched has fallen, so I would say no.


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## pipe

Who ever loses is still up there at the top of the division and could have interesting fights with Dos Santos, Velasquez, Mir, Nog etc. So it will probably put them 2 fights away from anothe Shittle tot.


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## michelangelo

Then he'll be even badder and meaner than he was prior to the loss. 

I can't imagine a more aggressive Brock Lesnar than the one we see now, but that's exactly what we'll get if this hypothetical scenario plays itself out.


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## suffersystem

michelangelo said:


> Then he'll be even badder and meaner than he was prior to the loss.
> 
> I can't imagine a more aggressive Brock Lesnar than the one we see now, but that's exactly what we'll get if this hypothetical scenario plays itself out.



I'd have to agree here. Although alot of people hate on Brock, the one thing I know for sure is that the guy strives on competition, and if he does happen to lose I can see the guy coming back with a vengeance.


----------



## The Horticulturist

3 more sleeps!!!!! EVERYONE UNITE!


we always hear about "*UNSTOPPABLE FORCE meets the IMMOVABLE OBJECT*" and *FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME IT IS TRUE!* 


UGH WHAT A GOOD WEEK THIS IS GOING TO BE 

HAPPY CANADA DAY! tomorrow


----------



## Thelegend

cant wait, i'm rooting for carwin all the way, i want to see brock knocked out on top of a bud lite sponsorship logo lol.


----------



## jeffmantx

*lol the statements people make regarding Lesnar!*

“He got a gift title shot" ( Hello do you think he was guaranteed to win, no. Just so happens he showed tremendous potential his win wasn't a fluke, I don't understand why people don't see that.

"Carwins wrestling is as good as Lesnar's which will allow him to keep the fight standing."
( While Carwin is big and a great wrestler, Lesnar is bigger faster and more agile, which is why I think, Carwin's size might be an advantage for Lesnar. Plus Lesnar is the better wrestler, if you disagree than go watch college wrestling.)

“He beat an old smaller HW in Randy" ( Wasn't this the the same Randy who schooled Tim Sylvia then GG both of whom outweighed him, but Lesnar beats him and suddenly hes old and the weight difference was too much. And then Randy takes Nog to a decision in what many called the best fight ever. So much for being old huh.)

Anyway I can't wait for this fight, Lesnar by gnp second round. Then people will be on the Cain train saying he will beat Lesnar. And if Brock loses then I gladly eat crow.


----------



## The505Butcher

jeffmantx said:


> “He got a gift title shot" ( Hello do you think he was guaranteed to win, no. Just so happens he showed tremendous potential his win wasn't a fluke, I don't understand why people don't see that.
> 
> "Carwins wrestling is as good as Lesnar's which will allow him to keep the fight standing."
> ( While Carwin is big and a great wrestler, Lesnar is bigger faster and more agile, which is why I think, Carwin's size might be an advantage for Lesnar. Plus Lesnar is the better wrestler, if you disagree than go watch college wrestling.)
> 
> “He beat an old smaller HW in Randy" ( Wasn't this the the same Randy who schooled Tim Sylvia then GG both of whom outweighed him, but Lesnar beats him and suddenly hes old and the weight difference was too much. And then Randy takes Nog to a decision in what many called the best fight ever. So much for being old huh.)
> 
> Anyway I can't wait for this fight, Lesnar by gnp second round. Then people will be on the Cain train saying he will beat Lesnar. And if Brock loses then I gladly eat crow.


Not only did he get a gift title shot but he also got a gift title IMO. Anyone who has seen both Lesnar and Couture fight knew that Lesnar was going to dominate the fight. If Couture was still the champ I have Carwin, Cain, JDS, and possibly Mir beating him. I love Couture but he has gone down IMO and won't be winning too many more fights even at a lower weight class. If you do not think Couture is old then I do not know what to tell you to slap you out of this delusion.:fight03: Yes he is a bad *ss for his age but he is still old and can not compete with the top of either division IMO. Probably gonna get some hate for this.

I do agree though that I can not wait for this fight and if Brock wins people will say Cain will beat Brock. I will be there agreeing with you on Lesnar though.:thumb02:

Hope Carwin whoops up on Lesnar just to keep this division intresting though.


----------



## amoosenamedhank

The505Butcher said:


> Not only did he get a gift title shot but he also got a gift title IMO. Anyone who has seen both Lesnar and Couture fight knew that Lesnar was going to dominate the fight. If Couture was still the champ I have Carwin, Cain, JDS, and possibly Mir beating him. I love Couture but he has gone down IMO and won't be winning too many more fights even at a lower weight class. If you do not think Couture is old then I do not know what to tell you to slap you out of this delusion.:fight03: Yes he is a bad *ss for his age but he is still old and can not compete with the top of either division IMO. Probably gonna get some hate for this.
> 
> I do agree though that I can not wait for this fight and if Brock wins people will say Cain will beat Brock. I will be there agreeing with you on Lesnar though.:thumb02:
> 
> Hope Carwin whoops up on Lesnar just to keep this division intresting though.


But if we operate under this scenario... any of the other top 3 HW you listed would have been just "gifted" the title. It just so happens Brock was the one given the chance first. 

If Brock isn't the fighter he's suppose to be, the title will be taken from him soon enough and everyone can get off their desks and stop yelling at their monitors.


----------



## oldfan

enough of this Randy /gift talk. Yes Randy is old but you really don't understand just how special he is. Only the best fighters in the world at any weight class are going to beat him... *and he's 46!! *

If there was an over 45 league Randy could fight 2 opponents at a time .... maybe 3.

Anyone who thinks Randy Couture is a gift/easy fight for anyone in the world , you are just.........wrong.


----------



## The505Butcher

amoosenamedhank said:


> But if we operate under this scenario... any of the other top 3 HW you listed would have been just "gifted" the title. It just so happens Brock was the one given the chance first.
> 
> If Brock isn't the fighter he's suppose to be, the title will be taken from him soon enough and everyone can get off their desks and stop yelling at their monitors.





oldfan said:


> enough of this Randy /gift talk. Yes Randy is old but you really don't understand just how special he is. Only the best fighters in the world at any weight class are going to beat him... *and he's 46!! *
> 
> If there was an over 45 league Randy could fight 2 opponents at a time .... maybe 3.
> 
> Anyone who thinks Randy Couture is a gift/easy fight for anyone in the world , you are just.........wrong.


Not saying Randy is an easy fight just saying I never saw him beating Lesnar, Carwin, Cain, possibly Mir, and now I do not see him beating Machida, Rashad, Rampage, Shogun, Bones, Silva.

He is a great fighter and a legend and I know he still has several good fights left in him but he is just not at the same level anymore.

I am not worthy to say Couture is not greatraise01:raise01:raise01:.

I just think he will have a tough fight with the top competition which is where he is at after the Toney fight.

And moose I know that Lesnar got it first and I do not understand why. He lost to Mir and Mir should have had the title fight first. Lesnar earned his belt by beating Mir IMO but he should not have had it so early.


----------



## amoosenamedhank

The505Butcher said:


> Not saying Randy is an easy fight just saying I never saw him beating Lesnar, Carwin, Cain, possibly Mir, and now I do not see him beating Machida, Rashad, Rampage, Shogun, Bones, Silva.
> 
> He is a great fighter and a legend and I know he still has several good fights left in him but he is just not at the same level anymore.
> 
> I am not worthy to say Couture is not greatraise01:raise01:raise01:.
> 
> I just think he will have a tough fight with the top competition which is where he is at after the Toney fight.
> 
> And moose I know that Lesnar got it first and I do not understand why. He lost to Mir and Mir should have had the title fight first. Lesnar earned his belt by beating Mir IMO but he should not have had it so early.


I definitely won't disagree with you that Lesnar's title shot was completely a business decision and had very little to do with his ranking/stands... but my point being that if he truly isn't a champion caliber fighter... the belt will be taken from him soon enough and then everyone can carry on with life.


----------



## ash

Gifted a shot, given a title, it doesn't make sense. The truth is that there was essentially a 4-man tourny for the title, with Brock, Randy, Frank and Nog. Brock won, if people have a problem with that they should be pissed at Randy, Frank and / or Nog for not stopping Brock.

And for all this talk about Randy being an easy matchup, go ahead and go look at all the predictions for that fight. If it were such an easy fight for Brock why were so many people taking Randy? Both on the forums and also the Pros Picks. It all amounts to revisionist history.


----------



## The505Butcher

amoosenamedhank said:


> I definitely won't disagree with you that Lesnar's title shot was completely a business decision and had very little to do with his ranking/stands... but my point being that if he truly isn't a champion caliber fighter... the belt will be taken from him soon enough and then everyone can carry on with life.





ash said:


> Gifted a shot, given a title, it doesn't make sense. The truth is that there was essentially a 4-man tourny for the title, with Brock, Randy, Frank and Nog. Brock won, if people have a problem with that they should be pissed at Randy, Frank and / or Nog for not stopping Brock.
> 
> And for all this talk about Randy being an easy matchup, go ahead and go look at all the predictions for that fight. If it were such an easy fight for Brock why were so many people taking Randy? Both on the forums and also the Pros Picks. It all amounts to revisionist history.


Loving everyone putting words into my post and making me say Couture is an easy fight...:sarcastic02:

I think brock deserves to be at the top now but not when he was given the shot with Randy. Lesnar could very well be the person to hold the HW belt and make everyone look like children(he already does.)

The reason why everyone was giving Couture such a great chance is because he has such a great following. He is a legend. I understand because I still will never go against Liddel, even if he were to fight Fedor or Lesnar tomorrow. That and Lesnar was not deserving of the title in a lot of peoples minds like I still say.

Randy is an MMA god and legend and I know people are already starting to take my post in the wrong lway. In no way do I say Randy is an easy fight or that he is a bad fighter. I just think he is not at the top anymore. If Randy becomes the LHW champion again I will put on a sig saying how wrong I was. But I do not think I will have to do that.

Oh yeah and oldfan I am sorry.
Me--->raise01:COUTURE.


----------



## oldfan

O


> h yeah and oldfan I am sorry.
> Me--->COUTURE.



:thumb02::thumb02:

well...OK then. By the way while I agree with your assessment on most of those possible match ups I think Randy could break a lot of hearts if he gets his hands on Shogun.

Now back on topic, who's winning the poll? I can't see it because I can't decide how to vote. I think on this one I might just go with the majority. ....baaaa...baaaa

edit : oh uh... I see it now..


----------



## The505Butcher

oldfan said:


> O
> 
> 
> :thumb02::thumb02:
> 
> well...OK then. By the way while I agree with your assessment on most of those possible match ups I think Randy could break a lot of hearts if he gets his hands on Shogun.
> 
> Now back on topic, who's winning the poll? I can't see it because I can't decide how to vote. I think on this one I might just go with the majority. ....baaaa...baaaa
> 
> edit : oh uh... I see it now..


Yeah Brock is winning. Who you vote for?

Couture/Shogun would be a very good fight. Randy can take down Shogun for sure and I think he can get the win. Its just getting to that point that is the problem. It depends on his next opponent. Because I do not think beating Toney is title shot worthy.


----------



## leifdawg

After watching the countdown show and following Carwin's internet posts, I have come to the conclusion that Shane Carwin is 10x the shit talker than Lesnar.

Also from the countdown, Eliott Marshall needs to watch his mouth.


----------



## Tacx0911

Carwin for 2nd Round KO win over Lesnar.


----------



## Coosh

*Lesnar reveals that he has switched his stance to southpaw for Carwin fight*

http://mmajunkie.com/news/19756/evo...sons-with-ufc-116-challenger-shane-carwin.mma



> WAS VEGAS – It was obvious from the first moment UFC heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar (4-1 MMA, 3-1 UFC) walked into Wednesday's open workout session promoting his UFC 116 bout with Shane Carwin (12-0 MMA, 4-0 UFC) that something was different.
> 
> It wasn't about the way he hit the mitts during a brief workout session or the way his physique has changed during his year away from competition, though there were those things, too.
> 
> No, the big difference with Lesnar in contrast to previous pre-fight media sessions was the smile that he flashed easily and often.
> 
> "It just feels good to be here," Lesnar said. "I'm just relaxed. It feels like it's been an eternity. I've been through a lot this year.
> 
> "I did Jim Rome this morning, and I just said, 'I just feel fortunate.' I'm excited for Saturday night. A lot of hard work to come from Nov. 6 being in the hospital to being here and being healthy. To be able to defend a title, it's pretty remarkable."
> 
> Lesnar's recent battle with a life-threatening case of diverticulitis has been well-told by now, but it doesn't make his recovery any less remarkable. The massive heavyweight was moments away from a surgery that could have ended his career, but Lesnar has since made a full recovery with a more holistic approach to treatment.
> 
> "It's just a lifestyle," Lesnar said. "It's one of those things where you just do it. I could have just said, 'Ah, this is going to be too (hard).' I'm not that guy. It was a challenge for me. I overcame this. I got a title defense. These things are exciting for me.
> 
> "Could I have hung it up and stayed at home and been a family man? Yeah, but it's not how I want my career to end. If this thing's going to stop, I want it to be on my terms. I just don't see Shane Carwin being the guy that's going to stop this freight train."
> 
> "We changed a lot of things"
> 
> Lesnar hasn't seen action in the cage since his UFC 100 grudge-match win over Frank Mir. And while a considerable portion of that time away from competition was spent battling his way back to full health, Lesnar said the extended break also gave him time to evolve as a fighter.
> 
> "I didn't feel good right away," Lesnar told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com). "It was baby steps. That's why I got with the right people. Every week I just had mini-goals – every day little mini-goals. I just took it one day at a time, and then when I got the green light that I was going to be able to do this again, then we just kind of – I refer to it as like a little steam locomotive. We threw a little coal on the fire. We got things going. Next week, a little more coal, and now we're here.
> 
> "I definitely feel lighter on my feet. I definitely feel lighter. I brought Peter Welch in, and we changed my stance and switched from standard – from traditional – to southpaw, and it's really worked out. It's helped in my wrestling, my shooting. We changed a lot of things, and we'll see if they work, I guess."
> 
> Lesnar insists he's now fully recovered, and he says he never wavered from his belief that he would put back on the weight he had lost, regain the power that had made him such a feared commodity, and defend his UFC title.
> 
> "It was just one of those things that I really didn't even give it any thought," Lesnar said. "When you have a goal in mind like I did – and I just wanted to get from point A to B, and I knew I had to hit pretty much all the letters in the alphabet to get where I needed to go – it was just one day at a time."
> 
> "I just don't see a comparison"
> 
> In Carwin, Lesnar faces a similarly massive-sized adversary who also relies on a wrestling-based attack punctuated with brute force. But while most MMA observers have been focusing on the parallels between the two athletes, Lesnar says he doesn't see it.
> 
> "When I look at that guy, I don't know where – that's you guys making these comparisons," Lesnar said. "I just don't see those things. I just don't. He hasn't done the things I've done. He's trying to, but I just don't see a comparison."
> 
> Those same MMA observers point to Carwin's March victory over Mir as an example of the technical striking prowess that the current interim champion has added to his arsenal. Lesnar is less impressed by the feat, especially since he earned a second-round TKO over his nemesis this past July.
> 
> "I mean Mir shouldn't have even been fighting then," Lesnar said. "You can't unscramble scrambled eggs. I scrambled his eggs six months before that."
> 
> But is Lesnar concerned that, as many believe, Carwin will be the first fighter to test his chin?
> 
> "It will only get tested if he hits my chin," Lesnar said. "We're trying to avoid all them things."
> 
> As a former WWE superstar, Lesnar knows a thing or two about playing a role. In his brief time with the UFC, Lesnar has played the role of villain to a T. But after battling back from a life-threatening illness to defend his heavyweight title against an undefeated challenger, will Lesnar enjoy one more change – fan support?
> 
> "I don't walk these streets or I'm not alive for respect," Lesnar said. "I do what I do because I like it, and it is what it is. I am who I am. I don't have to answer to anybody but myself when I get out of bed. That's been my motto for years. I do what I do, and if you don't like it, you know what.
> 
> "I'm just looking forward to having fun."


"I definitely feel lighter on my feet. I definitely feel lighter. I brought Peter Welch in, and we changed my stance and switched from standard – from traditional – to southpaw, and it's really worked out. It's helped in my wrestling, my shooting"


----------



## FrankMir20

damn..i cant wait for this fight dude!


----------



## HexRei

that's weird...


----------



## edlavis88

ummm I hope Brock isn't circling to his left when he is training... otherwise thats right into Shane's big right hand and this could get ugly quickly ala Bisping/Henderson!


----------



## Thermopyle

I voted Carwin. His chin has been tested against Gonzaga and he was able to weather the storm, get back up (against a brilliant BJJ HW) and stone Gabriel with a short right.

Shane has one punch knock OUT power. He's demonstrated that over and over.

Lesnar showed a questionable chin against Mir in the rematch, getting rocked and having the fortune of landing on top of Mir after the exchange and holding Mir down long enough to recover.

Brock does not have knockout power. He had Mir's head anchored in his left arm while he launched punch after punch into Mir's face. All Mir did was turn to his corner and say, "It's ok. I'm ok."

The two concerns I have for Carwin are these: 1) he's going to be right there for Lesnar to hit; it's no secret, Carwin isn't the most nimble cat in the HW division; he doesn't have a lot of head movement, either... 2) Carwin has destroyed all the opponents he has faced with relative ease, some adversity coming against Gonzaga, which he quickly overcame... but if Brock knocks him down and begins to overwhelm him how does Carwin respond to that? He hasn't been in that situation before.

--------------

In regards to "gift" belt, I'll say this: Lesnar was given a gift title shot while he walked the UFC red carpet to a title shot. First UFC fight: Elite Frank Mir. Result: Loss. Second UFC fight: Heath Herring. Result: Unanimous Decision. Here's your title shot.

Come on.


----------



## Coosh

edlavis88 said:


> ummm I hope Brock isn't circling to his left when he is training... otherwise thats right into Shane's big right hand and this could get ugly quickly ala Bisping/Henderson!


Brock doesn't plan on trading at all from the sounds of it. He says he plans on not getting hit by Carwin period.

The move to southpaw is a smart move because it gives him a tactical edge where his strengths lie, in wrestling. And will allow him to use his speed to his advantage and avoid exchanges and hit his shot.


----------



## leifdawg

Old school Matt Hughes style.


----------



## justmike79

I really REALLY hope that Brock walks into ths fight believeing that he is the "greatest" HW of all time as he as said b4. if hes that retarded then the humiliation will be all that much better. anyhow I see it with brock going to the take down. carwin scrambling back to his feet, putting brock on the fence w/ carwin working short power shots


----------



## BD3

*UFC 116: Carwin vs Lesnar Open Workout Highlights*

This is from today I think






There's a little bit more of the interview portion on the front page of UFC.com


----------



## _RIVAL_

Pulling for Carwin. 

I think he's gonna finish Brock.


----------



## justmike79

personally Id like to see carwin end in the 1st round. But if he didnt id be ok w/ that too. im intrested to see what kinda of cardio carwin has. training in Denver at 6k feet and w/ partners like nate you know that he has to have some serious cardio. either way I am finding it harder and harder to wait for this fight to happen. IMHO it shoulda happend months ago but from the dodging and the illness here we are some 7 months later and from looks of it we may finally get to see what we have been waiting for.


----------



## Shorty

Carwin looks like he has been working his hand speed and his dirty in close boxing. Possibly hoping to catch Brock on his way in..

His hand looked fairly quick for a guy his size. Can still see brock taking him down and pounding him out


----------



## BrutalKO

_RIVAL_ said:


> Pulling for Carwin.
> 
> I think he's gonna finish Brock.


...I agree. Lesnar has never faced a guy as big & nasty as Carwin. This no doubt will be Lesnar's biggest test...by far. On the countdown Lesnar said he's willing to trade punches with Shane. Brock would knocked into tomorrow. After Lesnar having a hole in his stomach, a body shot from Carwin could also end the fight. On the feet, it's Carwin's fight. If Lesnar gets a big takedown and pins Carwin down, keeping him there, it's Brock's fight. I'm willing to bet the house that the fight does not go past the 3rd round. I think Carwin is a smarter, more calculating fighter. Either way...This fight will be incredible and will not go the distance...


----------



## The505Butcher

Brock at least is smart enough to not want to stand with Carwin. This could be a repeat performance or Mir2 if Carwin can not stop the rhino charge takedown.

Can not wait.


----------



## Calibretto9

I was so sure that Carwin was going to take this fight for weeks now. But, now that we're just a few days away from the fight I'm getting second thoughts! It scares me how Carwin got rocked versus Gonzaga. 

Ack, what I fight this is going to be.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Calibretto9 said:


> I was so sure that Carwin was going to take this fight for weeks now. But, now that we're just a few days away from the fight I'm getting second thoughts! It scares me how Carwin got rocked versus Gonzaga.
> 
> Ack, what I fight this is going to be.


It should also show that even when Carwin is getting beaten, that he can still end the fight at any second. :thumbsup:


----------



## leifdawg

Calibretto9 said:


> I was so sure that Carwin was going to take this fight for weeks now. But, now that we're just a few days away from the fight I'm getting second thoughts! It scares me how Carwin got rocked versus Gonzaga.
> 
> Ack, what I fight this is going to be.


Just to throw some more doubt in your head, those punches that rocked Carwin, while landing flush were basically just right handed jabs and didn't have a ton of power behind them.


----------



## Leed

Man, the closer the night comes, the more I worry and think that Carwin may take the W. Hope that Brock pulls it through. :thumb02:


----------



## Blitzz

Gah. Saturday cannot come fast enough.

War Lesnar!


----------



## Calibretto9

leifdawg said:


> Just to throw some more doubt in your head, those punches that rocked Carwin, while landing flush were basically just right handed jabs and didn't have a ton of power behind them.


Ha, you're evil! Putting more doubt in me. Yeah, they really weren't that big of shots. It won't take many shots from Brock to hurt him.

Still, I think Carwin is going to win... I think...


----------



## BD3

Brock Lesnar on ESPN Sport's Center






Shane Carwin:


----------



## kgilstrap

*Brock vs Carwin prefight staredown*

These 2 guys are way closer in size than anyone would have imagined!!!


----------



## G_Land

Why the shitty pic I can tell anything...it looks like a painting


----------



## sunley213

Brock looks bigger than Carwin to me in that pic. 

Sorry man


----------



## Jeter Sucks

I'm pretty sure it's a Predator POV shot. I guess Brock's the new Arnold.


----------



## luckbox

If you're talking height, Shane has a better stature here. Footwear play into it aswell. Brock is the taller guy, no question there. If youre talking big like muscle-big, the picture is to shitty to tell.


----------



## Spec0688

Brock is clearly bigger, no matter how shitty the picture quality is. Carwin is mostly standing in a straightened posture, while Brock is leaning a bit towards the camera.


----------



## kgilstrap

Sorry the pic is shitty, I tried. As for size, I expected Brock to look much bigger than Carwin than he did. Also if you watched the press conference I thought Shane handled himself really well when speaking about Division 2 national wrestling champs and about why Brock said he was coming out south paw.


----------



## The505Butcher

Yeah Lesnar will be bigger in the cage when this fight comes. Still can not wait.


----------



## hixxy

WOW

43 votes each!

I think Carwin via tko first round


----------



## Stapler

I think that Brock should win this fight unless ring rust plays a large factor. Carwin only has punching power on him. Shane doesn't have great stand up. When you watch the way they both strike, Carwin is a better striker, but not by much. It's his punching power that inflates the opinion that he has great hands. Carwin has decent hands at best.


----------



## The Horticulturist

Jeter Sucks said:


> I'm pretty sure it's a Predator POV shot. I guess Brock's the new Arnold.


I lol'ed twice today reading that Predator comparison.  thank you


----------



## oldfan

I've been a full 720 degrees on this and I'm back to my original position. Brock is an incredibly talented and dedicated genetic freak who may be unstoppable. He's also a huge ASS. I'm pulling for Carwin. I just want it to last 3+ rounds.


----------



## The505Butcher

Nick_V03 said:


> I think that Brock should win this fight unless ring rust plays a large factor. Carwin only has punching power on him. Shane doesn't have great stand up. When you watch the way they both strike, Carwin is a better striker, but not by much. It's his punching power that inflates the opinion that he has great hands. Carwin has decent hands at best.





oldfan said:


> I've been a full 720 degrees on this and I'm back to my original position. Brock is an incredibly talented and dedicated genetic freak who may be unstoppable. He's also a huge ASS. I'm pulling for Carwin. I just want it to last 3+ rounds.


Carwin's striking is so much better than Brock's. All brock has is his strength. You take away his strength and Brock would do absolutley no damage standing. Carwin offensively is one of the better strikers in the HW division IMO. His defensive striking leaves a lot to be desired though.

Feel the same way as you oldfan. Though I want a first punch KO for Carwin just because I like him a lot more than Lesnar.

Side note: Like the new avatar.:thumb02:


----------



## No_Mercy

Sucks for the average better cuz Carwin went from +200 a year ago to +110 now. Still going with Carwin. This guy is the true "Sandman." I would like to have him wear 32 oz gloves and punch me in the head (with football helmut) so I can feel the brunt of his force. Then I can see how it feels. It's amazing how someone can touch somebody's chin with a six inch punch and knock em out. Full swing is one thing, but a short punch...wtf.


----------



## oldfan

The505Butcher said:


> Carwin's striking is so much better than Brock's. All brock has is his strength. You take away his strength and Brock would do absolutley no damage standing. Carwin offensively is one of the better strikers in the HW division IMO. His defensive striking leaves a lot to be desired though.
> 
> Feel the same way as you oldfan. Though I want a first punch KO for Carwin just because I like him a lot more than Lesnar.
> 
> Side note: Like the new avatar.:thumb02:


Thanks buddy. 

I hope Carwin can pull it off but I think Brocks striking gets underestimated. He's knocked down everyone he's fought.Damn he's *Fast* but I'm sticking with Carwin for the same scientific analysis as you...just because I like him a lot better. To make it more fun I'm gonna put some real money on him as well as credits. I always bet with my heart, that way I don't have to worry about taxes.


----------



## justmike79

whether my guy wins or looses I just want this thing to happen. finally got to watch the press confrence and once a gain Shane has shown a lot of class in spite of Brocks shool boyish taunts and insults. granted Brock is a bad dude but the fact that he makes statemnts the statemnts that he does just makes me hate em more


----------



## leifdawg

justmike79 said:


> whether my guy wins or looses I just want this thing to happen. finally got to watch the press confrence and once a gain Shane has shown a lot of class in spite of Brocks shool boyish taunts and insults. granted Brock is a bad dude but the fact that he makes statemnts the statemnts that he does just makes me hate em more


If you haven't been paying attention Carwin has talked a ton more trash for this fight than Lesnar.


----------



## The Horticulturist

leifdawg said:


> If you haven't been paying attention Carwin has talked a ton more trash for this fight than Lesnar.


Don't even bother with that one man, no one seems to really pay attention I guess. Brock is a jock, who had 5 bad minutes of pub after Mir II and it looks like that's all anyone is going to remember until they see him beaten. 

I get it in a way, big wrestler with an annoying tattoo, annoying haircut, annoying voice and when he is put on the spot, who knows what will come out of his mouth. I should hate him too, but I admire the guy. 

For the first year, I had to deal with non stop steroid allegations and that bothered me, then I had to deal with his competition supposedly not being good enough. After that, there was accusations that he was ducking Carwin. 
_

Don't like Lesnar- Rooting for Carwin?_ 
I get that 100% I won't even throw the "not liking Lesnar is the cool thing to do" at you.

But the hate.....
It all leads me to question some peoples maturity as to why they would hold such a huge animosity for someone who has not only fully dedicated his life, reputation, and well being to the sport. What's more impressive than this to me, is that he's likely doubled the amount of MMA viewers in the nation since he picked up the gloves.


----------



## Danm2501

Completely agree SJ. I didn't like what Brock did at UFC 100, but that was an isolated incident. Other than that he's been pretty respectful to all his opponents not called Frank Mir. You can tell he admires and appreciates what Randy Couture has done for the sport, he works bloody hard in training, he's a fantastic athlete and has stupid amounts of natural talent. How many people could walk into the UFC with a fight record of 1-0 and within 3 fights hold the HW championship? Not many. Sure he got the title shot a tad early, but it made sense business wise, and the fact he won proves it wasn't an early call AFAIC.

Just seems to me that people like holding a grudge against Lesnar for something I'm sure he knows was wrong. I don't get why anyone would want to root for Shane Carwin either TBH. Sure he's a talented fighter, has heavy hands and a good record, but he's about as interesting as watching paint dry. Brock may have a slightly annoying voice, but Shane Carwin's monotone drone just bores the hell out of me. I hate the way he loves trying to portray himself as this super-humble guy that never talks any shit, and yet goes on to talk constant rubbish on Twitter and Internet forums about Brock. Just comes across as so fake I think. I also think his power is massively over-rated. The way people talk about Carwin you'd think that as soon as he touches someones chin it's game over, but that's not the fact at all. Sure he has KO power, but he's only straight KO'd 1 man in the UFC, and that was Christian Wellisch. The others he's knocked down and then needed several further shots to finish them off. He doesn't have the straight KO power that he's hyped to have. Sure, if he catches you flush on the chin you're going out, but it's not a matter of Carwin touches you = out cold. Which seems to be what's being hyped of him.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Brock's definitely going to win this fight, as Carwin does pose a threat with his power, but Brock is the favourite in my eyes. He's had basically 9 months of solid training over both camps, he's fitter and healthier than ever and he's brought some even better guys into his camp to improve his skills. As seen on the Countdown shows he's been working with Randy Couture, but he's also been working his hands with Kenny Florian's boxing coach Peter Welch. I see Brock taking advantage of his superior reach, having good enough punch defence to prevent Carwin landing a power shot and then using his superior wrestling to take Carwin down and beat him up on the ground. I may yet be proven wrong, as I was before the Carwin-Mir fight, but I'm sure as hell not jumping on Mr Personalities' Bandwagon yet. If he beats Brock convincingly and gives up the 'I'm so humble' bullshit I may be convinced to jump on the bandwagon, but not yet.


----------



## oldfan

SJ said:


> Don't even bother with that one man, no one seems to really pay attention I guess. Brock is a jock, who had 5 bad minutes of pub after Mir II and it looks like that's all anyone is going to remember until they see him beaten.
> 
> I get it in a way, big wrestler with an annoying tattoo, annoying haircut, annoying voice and when he is put on the spot, who knows what will come out of his mouth. I should hate him too, but I admire the guy.
> 
> For the first year, I had to deal with non stop steroid allegations and that bothered me, then I had to deal with his competition supposedly not being good enough. After that, there was accusations that he was ducking Carwin.
> _
> 
> Don't like Lesnar- Rooting for Carwin?_
> I get that 100% I won't even throw the "not liking Lesnar is the cool thing to do" at you.
> 
> But the hate.....
> It all leads me to question some peoples maturity as to why they would hold such a huge animosity for someone who has not only fully dedicated his life, reputation, and well being to the sport. What's more impressive than this to me, is that he's likely doubled the amount of MMA viewers in the nation since he picked up the gloves.


 I agree with everything you said. on top of that I have diverticulitis and Randy couture is my hero. And still, his personality will not let me pull for him. If it's an act it's a damn good one and it's not just the couple of minutes after the Mir fight. His bully attitude comes through most of the time and you just feel his disdain and contempt for anyone not named Brock Lezner. Again if it's an act it's a good one. Brock represents (to me) the ultimate bully. I would guess that just about everyone who ever got in to martial arts (or wrestling for you sticklers who separate the two) had a Brock Lezner in their life at some point.

Maybe he has just decided to play the heel for business reasons. If so, it's working. I'm buying the ppv and I'm betting on a Carwin KO. So....good job Brock.


----------



## cdtcpl

I just want to point out 1 thing here for everyone who keeps talking about Carwin's punching power. He has it, no doubt, but his punches are extremely slow and easy really telegraphed. Watch his fights against Gonzaga and Mir, he catches them with short punches that you don't have time to react to. I think in a pure striking game Carwin is at the disadvantage because his punching speed is too slow and he is easy to read.

I think what will be interesting to see is the cage/clinch game. Will Lesnar use high underhooks to try and keep Carwin from using dirty boxing? If I was Randy that is what I would have taught Brock. I think what we will see out of Lesnar is a man who stays at range and then when he does go for the TD he will more than likely use high underhooks and sweep Carwin.

If Carwin wins I see it being against the cage in a sprawl/dirty boxing fashion, I don't see him walking out, throwing 1 punch, and done. I am not saying Lesnar has better striking, just his is faster and he moves more than Carwin does. Carwin doesn't catch people at range, he catches them nice and short. His amazing power is the reason why it works.

I see this going down as a Lesnar win via GnP, but after getting rocked while scoring a TD.


----------



## Freiermuth

cdtcpl said:


> I just want to point out 1 thing here for everyone who keeps talking about Carwin's punching power. He has it, no doubt, but his punches are extremely slow and easy really telegraphed. Watch his fights against Gonzaga and Mir, he catches them with short punches that you don't have time to react to. I think in a pure striking game Carwin is at the disadvantage because his punching speed is too slow and he is easy to read.
> 
> I think what will be interesting to see is the cage/clinch game. Will Lesnar use high underhooks to try and keep Carwin from using dirty boxing? If I was Randy that is what I would have taught Brock. I think what we will see out of Lesnar is a man who stays at range and then when he does go for the TD he will more than likely use high underhooks and sweep Carwin.
> 
> If Carwin wins I see it being against the cage in a sprawl/dirty boxing fashion, I don't see him walking out, throwing 1 punch, and done. I am not saying Lesnar has better striking, just his is faster and he moves more than Carwin does. Carwin doesn't catch people at range, he catches them nice and short. His amazing power is the reason why it works.
> 
> I see this going down as a Lesnar win via GnP, but after getting rocked while scoring a TD.


Good analysis. If Lesnar does get rocked by Carwin, I don't see him recovering or getting the TD still though.


----------



## BrutalKO

cdtcpl said:


> I just want to point out 1 thing here for everyone who keeps talking about Carwin's punching power. He has it, no doubt, but his punches are extremely slow and easy really telegraphed. Watch his fights against Gonzaga and Mir, he catches them with short punches that you don't have time to react to. I think in a pure striking game Carwin is at the disadvantage because his punching speed is too slow and he is easy to read.
> 
> I think what will be interesting to see is the cage/clinch game. Will Lesnar use high underhooks to try and keep Carwin from using dirty boxing? If I was Randy that is what I would have taught Brock. I think what we will see out of Lesnar is a man who stays at range and then when he does go for the TD he will more than likely use high underhooks and sweep Carwin.
> 
> If Carwin wins I see it being against the cage in a sprawl/dirty boxing fashion, I don't see him walking out, throwing 1 punch, and done. I am not saying Lesnar has better striking, just his is faster and he moves more than Carwin does. Carwin doesn't catch people at range, he catches them nice and short. His amazing power is the reason why it works.
> 
> I see this going down as a Lesnar win via GnP, but after getting rocked while scoring a TD.


...I respectfully disagree with your analysis. Carwin is not extremely slow. He has good speed for his huge size. If Carwin's speed is slow and easy to read they why hasn't anybody been able to get out of the 1st round or survive or evade ANY of his punches when they connect? Point blank- Carwin's *accurate* punching along with his devastating power have proved to be a winning formula. You stated Carwin catches guys with short punches that they don't have time to react to. Exactly. You CAN'T react to them because once the first one lands clean, you can't recover from that kind of power. Also not having enough time to react directly reflects on Shane's timing, which is key. One last thing, *nobody * has gotten rocked from a Carwin punch and recovered to get a takedown. If Shane lands flush just one time, Lesnar will not just get rocked but hurt and will be on rollerskates. Before you blink Carwin will smell blood and go in for the kill...


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## cdtcpl

BrutalKO said:


> ...I respectfully disagree with your analysis. Carwin is not extremely slow. He has good speed for his huge size. If Carwin's speed is slow and easy to read they why hasn't anybody been able to get out of the 1st round or survive or evade ANY of his punches when they connect? Point blank- Carwin's *accurate* punching along with his devastating power have proved to be a winning formula. You stated Carwin catches guys with short punches that they don't have time to react to. Exactly. You CAN'T react to them because once the first one lands clean, you can't recover from that kind of power. Also not having enough time to react directly reflects on Shane's timing, which is key. One last thing, *nobody * has gotten rocked from a Carwin punch and recovered to get a takedown. If Shane lands flush just one time, Lesnar will not just get rocked but hurt and will be on rollerskates. Before you blink Carwin will smell blood and go in for the kill...


You kind of help make my point while arguing against me. Carwin is great on short punches because he is accurate and powerful, but he can really only make those short punches in dirty boxing/clinch type situations. He isn't throwing Rashad type bombs out of no where, he is landing them up close and personal. 

And to clarify, I think Lesnar gets rocked while getting the TD. He isn't going to crumple like Mir or Gonzaga, just take a few extra seconds on the ground before starting the GnP. Kind of like after he ate the 1 legged knee from Mir. *Disclaimer - I am not saying Mir is as powerful as Carwin, just similiar situation.


----------



## The505Butcher

cdtcpl said:


> You kind of help make my point while arguing against me. Carwin is great on short punches because he is accurate and powerful, but he can really only make those short punches in dirty boxing/clinch type situations. He isn't throwing Rashad type bombs out of no where, he is landing them up close and personal.
> 
> And to clarify, I think Lesnar gets rocked while getting the TD. He isn't going to crumple like Mir or Gonzaga, just take a few extra seconds on the ground before starting the GnP. Kind of like after he ate the 1 legged knee from Mir. *Disclaimer - I am not saying Mir is as powerful as Carwin, just similiar situation.


Christian Williesch was knocked out from a ways. Carwin times opponents very well as has already been said.

If Brock goes in to grapple with Carwin he will not clinch with him. He will look for the duble leg immediately and stay away from any sort of short punches with Carwin.


----------



## Stapler

The505Butcher said:


> Carwin's striking is so much better than Brock's. All brock has is his strength. You take away his strength and Brock would do absolutley no damage standing. Carwin offensively is one of the better strikers in the HW division IMO. His defensive striking leaves a lot to be desired though.
> 
> Feel the same way as you oldfan. Though I want a first punch KO for Carwin just because I like him a lot more than Lesnar.
> 
> Side note: Like the new avatar.:thumb02:


Offensively one of the better strikers because of his power. I'm not sure there is anyone in the heavyweight division that hits harder than Carwin. He didn't put that much into his punch against Gonzaga and it still put Gonzaga temporarily in another dimension. Lesnar should by no means stand with Carwin because even if Lesnar were the better striker, he'd still be taking a huge risk standing.

Carwin is a better striker, but not by a large margin. He is not that fast and his defense consists of him absorbing punches. When I think of overall stand up, I put that into play as well. He reminds me of Chuck Liddell in a sense. Chuck had a lot of power, good hands, good wrestling to keep the fight where he wanted it, and a good chin that would tank punches with ease. Carwin is very similar in that aspect (without the kicks), you can see him even taking a page out of Chuck Liddell's book by getting back to his feet when Gonzaga took him down. Eventually this will probably come back to haunt him, your chin can only take so much punishment. Chuck is my favorite fighter, but I think his lack of defense really came back to haunt him in his MMA career.

Comparing Carwin to a prime Liddell is a compliment, I have a lot of respect for Chuck Liddell and have supported him since I joined this forum in 2006. Who wouldn't want to be like the greatest light heavyweight champion of all time? He also has the ability to fix some of the holes that Liddell had, and I recommend he do that sooner rather than later.

EDIT: You said that all Lesnar has is strength, I'm not sure if you were implying that it was his only advantage. He is faster as well in my opinion, and his wrestling is better. I think most of us can agree that Carwin has the advantage standing, and Brock has the advantage on the ground.


----------



## Trix

I think Brock is faster and hits harder than Carwin does.

Carwin has more of a KO artist approach, he knows where to hit people to knock them out. Kind of like Anderson Silva.

Brock's punches will land on people's eye sockets, on the side of their head, all over the place. Carwin's will land on their chin/jaw. It may not be Carwin hits harder so much as where he hits. :thumbsup:

In Brock's training vids for this fight, it looks like he tried to form a habit of keeping one glove in front of his chin, at all times, to prevent Carwin from hitting it, cleanly. When Brock throws leg kicks, he has one hand in front of his chin to help absorb a counter, etc.

People are saying Carwin is too big to fail, uh I mean, be taken down by Brock. Brock's wrestling career was spent wrestling people as big as Carwin. Brock's success isn't a result of bulk or mass, its a result of years and years honing himself into the perfect wrestling machine. Carwin's size won't be a factor.


----------



## Fedorbator

BrutalKO said:


> ...I respectfully disagree with your analysis. Carwin is not extremely slow. He has good speed for his huge size. If Carwin's speed is slow and easy to read they why hasn't anybody been able to get out of the 1st round or survive or evade ANY of his punches when they connect? Point blank- Carwin's *accurate* punching along with his devastating power have proved to be a winning formula. You stated Carwin catches guys with short punches that they don't have time to react to. Exactly. You CAN'T react to them because once the first one lands clean, you can't recover from that kind of power. Also not having enough time to react directly reflects on Shane's timing, which is key. One last thing, *nobody * has gotten rocked from a Carwin punch and recovered to get a takedown. If Shane lands flush just one time, Lesnar will not just get rocked but hurt and will be on rollerskates. Before you blink Carwin will smell blood and go in for the kill...


This.


----------



## The505Butcher

Nick_V03 said:


> Offensively one of the better strikers because of his power. I'm not sure there is anyone in the heavyweight division that hits harder than Carwin. He didn't put that much into his punch against Gonzaga and it still put Gonzaga temporarily in another dimension. Lesnar should by no means stand with Carwin because even if Lesnar were the better striker, he'd still be taking a huge risk standing.
> 
> Carwin is a better striker, but not by a large margin. He is not that fast and his defense consists of him absorbing punches. When I think of overall stand up, I put that into play as well. He reminds me of Chuck Liddell in a sense. Chuck had a lot of power, good hands, good wrestling to keep the fight where he wanted it, and a good chin that would tank punches with ease. Carwin is very similar in that aspect (without the kicks), you can see him even taking a page out of Chuck Liddell's book by getting back to his feet when Gonzaga took him down. Eventually this will probably come back to haunt him, your chin can only take so much punishment. Chuck is my favorite fighter, but I think his lack of defense really came back to haunt him in his MMA career.
> 
> Comparing Carwin to a prime Liddell is a compliment, I have a lot of respect for Chuck Liddell and have supported him since I joined this forum in 2006. Who wouldn't want to be like the greatest light heavyweight champion of all time? He also has the ability to fix some of the holes that Liddell had, and I recommend he do that sooner rather than later.
> 
> EDIT: You said that all Lesnar has is strength, I'm not sure if you were implying that it was his only advantage. He is faster as well in my opinion, and his wrestling is better. I think most of us can agree that Carwin has the advantage standing, and Brock has the advantage on the ground.


His striking only has strength. He hits fast and puts a lot of weight behind it but looks really sloppy while doing it. He does not aim for the chin and does not take his time setting up combos or anything. He just throws a really hard punch everynow and then and hope it connects. It has worked for him so far and it may work for him in the fight.

I agree that Carwin just sits there and takes a lot of punishment from guys. He should not do that in this fight because Lesnar has so much strength behind his punches and he really should try to move away and keep lesnar away from shooting in. If carwin just slowly walks forward with no head movement it will be very dangerous for him striking.


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## justmike79

I have read all the arguments (the good ones right down to the omfg your a retard for even saying that) and dont see Carwin doing the same plan as he has b4. Carwin hits harder than BL period, bottom line, thanx for playing. In the fight w/ HH when BL cocked that punch that landed on HH and rolled em back. . .every1 should remeber that I hope. HH was not asleep. If Carwin would landed that punch the fight would have eneded. As much as I hate BL for what he is I have to admit that he is a tremondus wrestler, with a lot of speed. But to say that these 2 men are on an even standing or even close in the stand up game is well foolish. that would be like saying that Carwin is almost or just as good at wrestling as BL. Brock has been training to deflect Carwins power by placing his fist in front of his face just as I am sure that Carwin has been practcing on scrambling back to his feet. The entire fight is going to come down to who is able to exicute their own game plans. If BL is able to get Carwin on the ground and hold em there, BL should be able to win. Carwin should realize by now that his game plan should be to press BL on the fence and work those short power strikes that seem to be more and more effective for him. in this case Id give it to Carwin. Carwin though shorter has a lower center of gravity, which gives him a slight edge If he is able to get BL on the fence and hold em there. it will be a little more difficult for BL to get the fight to the ground which is where he will need to be.


----------



## Trix

justmike79 said:


> In the fight w/ HH when BL cocked that punch that landed on HH and rolled em back. . .every1 should remeber that I hope. HH was not asleep.



The punch landed on HH's orbital(and broke it, ouch). 

To knock someone out normally you need to hit them in the jaw or in the temple(where there's a connection to the jaw).

There are actually people who watch a lot of tape where people get KO'ed and study to figure out where the right spots are.

I don't think anyone has ever been KO'ed being hit in the orbital(eye socket region).

Brock has power, he just doesn't land to the right places or have the accuracy to be the kind of KO artist Carwin is.

If Brock can protect his chin well(by tucking it, slipping punches, etc), Carwin probably won't be able to knock him out, I'm thinking. He could nullify Carwin's offense and his "punching power" won't mean much if he winds up on his back with Brock on top of him.


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## justmike79

actually the jaw is one of the place. but any place on the head or sides of the neck can result in a KO. The jaw is easier due to the amnt of nerves. But any time you get hit hard enough to make your brain impact the skull can and often does result in a loss of conciouness aka KO. its called coup-contercoup


----------



## UrbanBounca

You can't clearly see a size difference, but here's the weigh-in photo for Brock/Carwin.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## Trix

I took a screenshot off the weigh in vid on the ufc site(poor quality, unfortunately). :thumb02:

I like how Carwin's stealth black shoes blend into the background.


----------



## ash

So let me just chime in and say:

1) Can't WAIT for this fight tomorrow night, I know what I think will happen but there's a whole range of possibilities in this fight.

2) May folks have said it before, but it's a great thing that there's actually some awesome matchups / fights in the HW division now. This is one of the most looked-forward to fights this year, and after this there are great fights with Brock / Carwin / Cain / JDS / Nelson / whoever else we don't know about yet. Lots of combinations and they're all really interesting.


----------



## Guy Incognito

i put money on lesnar but i got a feeling that brock will dominate the first Rd but than sometime in the second a carwin/gonzaga moment will happen


----------



## Guy Incognito

*Pros Pick: Lesnar Vs Carwin*

he sport of mixed martial arts will crown its next top-ranked heavyweight on Saturday at the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas. There, UFC heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar, will square off with undefeated interim titleholder Shane Carwin in an anticipated unification bout at UFC 116 “Lesnar vs. Carwin.” 

Sherdog.com caught up with dozens of professional fighters and trainers to gauge their opinions on the battle between these two behemoths: 

Nick Thompson: As I do every summer, I left a graduate-level algebraic graph theory math problem on the board as a challenged posed to my students. I had hoped one of them could solve it by the end of the semester. To my amazement, it was anonymously solved within the first week. In its place, I posted a much more difficult problem, one that took me and my colleagues two years to prove. Then I see this janitor writing over my problem and chase him away only to realize, upon closer inspection of the janitor’s writing, that the janitor had solved this difficult proof. I finally tracked down the janitor and found out his name was Derrick Noble. By the time I found out who he was, he was in a bit of a jam. He was on trial for attacking a police officer. Because of Derrick’s unparalleled promise, I spoke to the judge on Derrick’s behalf. The judge offered him prison or to be released to my supervision to study mathematics and see a therapist. Derrick chose the latter. Derrick treated the first five therapists with utter contempt. In desperation, I finally called on Sean, my old roommate, now an estranged old friend, who is a therapist and happens to think Carwin will win, just like Noble. My fields medal leads me to believe Lesnar will be the champ, but Derrick and Sean both have more natural talent than me, of which I am jealous, and they think Carwin. 

Chris Weidman: Lesnar wins. He wins by ground-and-pound stoppage in the first round. He shows the world how much of a beast he really is. 

Eddy Millis: I think that Brock wins this fight. Carwin has to catch him with some good, solid shots early on. If not, Brock takes Carwin down and controls the fight. Brock in the second round by punishment on the ground. 

Tito Ortiz: I think it’s probably one of the biggest fights of the year at heavyweight. Brock Lesnar -- I’m a big fan, huge fan. I’m going back to my old wrestling days, of course, [with] him being a collegiate wrestler. I’ve always been a huge fan, but Shane Carwin has the skills to become the next heavyweight champ. I kind of look at the paper, black or white and who’s going to win or not. I think Carwin’s going to pull it off, but I hope Brock is going to make it happen and continue being the champ. I have a liking for Brock. I see a lot of myself in him, and I think he’s good for the sport. But, yeah, I do [think Carwin will win]. I just think his stand-up skills are a little better than Brock’s. He’s got a lot more experience, having 12 fights, big fights, and you saw how fast he dismantled Frank Mir. I just think if Shane Carwin can defend the takedown, he should win the fight. But if he can’t defend the takedown, then he’s going to be in trouble. 

Matt Pena: I’ve been really impressed with Carwin, but his only chance to win this is to KO Lesnar. That sounds great in theory, but I just don’t think it will be that simple. Having trained Brock for a very brief time at [Miletich Fighting Systems] when he decided to start fighting, I know firsthand how strong Brock is and how far he has come in a short time. I really think it’s gonna come down to Carwin’s ability to stop the takedown. This is such a difficult fight to call, but I’m gonna have to take the safe route here when the only chance to win is a puncher’s chance. 

Doug Marshall: Well, that’s hard to call; they’re both beasts. I think we might see the Octagon break (laughs). They both hit hard, and both [are] good wrestlers. I think if Carwin gets him to the ground and slaps on a camel clutch, it’s over. On the other hand, if Brock can get to the top and Jimmy “Superflys” him, he might squish Carwin. Final analysis is … pandemonium. 

Travis Wiuff: I think Brock wins this fight fairly easily. I see him being very dominant. Brock will get the takedown and ground-and-pound out a win in the late second or third round. The toughest fight Brock will ever have is in the practice room against Cole Konrad. 

Dan Hardy: I think Lesnar is going to take Carwin down in the first and try to Donkey Kong him. Carwin will weather an early storm and KO Lesnar with one of his six-inch punches in the second, just like the punch that dropped Gonzaga. 

Seth Petruzelli: Please, Shane, smash that overgrown non-veggie eating poop stick. 

Ryan Schultz: That is going to be a brawl. Two big athletic boys. I want to say Lesnar based on his wrestling, but I pick Carwin by KO. I hope the cage can handle the size and power of these two. 

Josh Thomson: Brock by ground-and-pound TKO. I think his wrestling is a whole different level than Carwin’s, but Carwin has a puncher’s chance on the feet. 

Shawn Tompkins: I am rooting for Shane Carwin in this fight. I have been a fan of his since his fights in Ring of Fire. On the feet, I think he is far superior and a much more natural striker. Only problem I see for him is Brock’s superhuman strength. If he ends up on top of Shane, I think he will look for a wrestler’s decision. This is literally a fight where two worlds are gonna collide. 

Scott Lighty: Takedowns for a dollar (copyright). Carwin is coming to collect. 

Jeff Monson: Lesnar by decision. 

Jason Lambert: Carwin by KO. 

Yves Edwards: I kind of have to go with Carwin in this one. I do think Brock will take him down but don’t know if he can finish or keep him there. Also, Carwin has the better standing game, and Brock didn’t look like he likes getting hit. 

Travis Lutter: I think Shane is going to get this one. I think he is the harder hitting of the two. [It will] be fun to watch two massive heavyweights trying to hurt each other. 

Jason Von Flue: I’m thinking Carwin is going to beat the poop out of Lesnar in this one. Carwin has the size and power to offset Lesnar’s raw size and wrestling and his lack of skill in striking. Carwin in round two by KO or TKO. The only thing that could make this better would be Cain Velasquez running in and turning this into a three-way death match. Oh, I shouldn’t say that; we might end up seeing that happen on Monday Night “Raw.” I really could imagine the WWE doing a parody of that. 

Tom Vaughn: Shane Carwin is absolutely one of the nicest people I've met on the circuit. I used to wonder if Shane had it in him to really put a beatdown on someone, but his last few fights cleared up that question (laughs). Brock Lesnar is entertaining to watch and knows how to sell it. Even though he reminds me of that guy on the football team hanging people on the flagpole by their underwear, I like his attitude as a fighter. The difference here is depth in the MMA game, and I believe Carwin has it. This fight goes two, maybe three rounds max. Anything longer than that and people are going to find out the ugly truth about 265-pound fighters. If one of these guys wins by triangle, I’m gonna crap myself. My prediction is Shane Carwin by TKO and the UFC needing some new fence panels afterwards. 

Roland Sarria: Lesnar will start fast trying to control the fight on the top position on the ground. Carwin will stuff the takedowns and counter with punches to the head. Lesnar will have no answer to Carwin’s onslaughts and combinations of punches to the head, and it will end in the first round.

Josh Neer: It’ll be trouble. Carwin has more experience and better boxing. I’ll take Carwin by KO, but [Junior] dos Santos will be champ next year. 

Tim Kennedy: I’m taking Carwin. He hits harder, hasn’t been sick, still has the hunger and has underrated wrestling to survive. 

Brian Warren: Going to be a good one. Can’t pick who’s going to win, so I am going to pick who I want to win. I want Carwin to win this by KO. So let’s just see how this great fight plays out. I know two things are going to happen for sure though: somebody’s going to lose this one, and somebody’s going to get KO’d. 

Pat Miletich: This is what I would have said before Brock got sick: “I think Carwin has better striking on the feet but will ultimately not be able to stop Lesnar’s takedowns.” Now, I have no clue. If Lesnar is back to 100 percent, he should pull out a ground-and-pound victory. If not, I think he’s in trouble. Nothing else to say, except Brock’s health will dictate the outcome 

Keith Berry: Wow, I’ve been waiting for this fight. Well, Lesnar is a beast but so is Carwin. I really have no idea who’s going to win. I can see it going both ways depending on their game plans, but I like Carwin; he’s like the dad you never want to [expletive] with, so I say Carwin by KO. 

Roy Arriola: Lesnar-Carwin has the potential to be a great fight if it stays on the feet. Brock’s chin has yet to be battle tested. Carwin will test it early and will eventually catch Brock coming in. Brock is not a technical-type fighter; he has proven that he will bull rush in 99 percent of the time and will look to do the same versus Carwin. Carwin by KO in round one, by knee or straight right hand down the pipe. 

Marcus Davis: Carwin by KO in one. We will see Brock get hit by a man his size and will go sleepy, sleepy. I hope I don’t see Brock if he reads this. 

Shamar Bailey: I really think this fight will be dictated by Lesnar’s ability to take Carwin down and keep him on the ground. Lesnar’s stand-up has improved, but he hasn’t fought anybody who possesses that knockout power he needs to respect. If this fight stays on the ground, I see Lesnar winning. If it stays on the feet, then I see Carwin winning this fight by referee stoppage. 

Jeff Joslin: I’m looking forward to seeing Brock Lesnar back in action. After overcoming his health issue, I hope he comes into the fight close to 100 percent, because I think Shane Carwin will be the best he’s ever been come fight time. I see Brock controlling Carwin against the cage, scoring a takedown and unleashing an effective combination of intense ground control pressure and active ground-and-pound. I think this fight will end sometime in the second round with Lesnar being declared the winner. 

Bobby Southworth: It’ll be good to see Brock back and see how he performs after his medical issues. This fight is tough to call. Carwin has big KO power, but he’s never been out of the first round, and this is a five rounder. We know Lesnar can go at least three rounds. If the fight ends quick and with a bang, I’m callin’ Carwin. The longer the fight goes, I’ll take Lesnar. That’s the best I can do. 

Michael Guymon: (Laughs) Two Mack trucks are gonna collide and make one big mess, and I think Brock is going to be on the wrong end. I see Carwin getting the KO in the first. 

Scott Epstein: If Carwin taps that jaw, it’s good night Brock, but there is always the freight train bum rush take down that Brock has. Once that gorilla pressure is on, I’m not sure Carwin gets away. It’s 50/50. I bet on neither. 

Tom Gavrilos: Hard to call because we’ve never really seen anything like this. If Carwin’s heavy, heavy hands connect, it’s going to be lights out. Since neither has been deep [into rounds], I’m interested to see how cardio plays in. I’ll take Carwin via KO. 

Stav Economou: Such a tough fight to call. However, I think Brock is going to be the stronger and better wrestler of the two, so I think he is going to take this fight in the second round via TKO from ground-and-pound. 

Ray Elbe: Carwin takes the belt from Lesnar faster than a supermodel heads to the bathroom after an all-you-can-eat buffet. 

Marlon Sandro: Lesnar is a very explosive guy who will try to finish the fight soon. Nevertheless, I think that Carwin has proven that he has skill and is a guy who seems to be thinking more in the fight, as he did with Frank Mir. I think he will try the same game plan he used against Mir. Both have very strong punches, but I think Carwin will do this. I believe that Carwin wins. 

Billy MacDonald: Well, after 20-25 years of wondering, we are going to finally get the answer to the question ‘Where’s the beef?’ July 3 it will be in Las Vegas inside the Octagon. The new question is how is Brock Lesnar’s health? While I have a sneaking suspicion that the money is going to come in on Brock, I am going to go with Shane Carwin via TKO in round two. 

Roli Delgado: Regardless of who wins, I think it won’t make it past the second round. These guys are too big and bring way too much power. I think Brock’s explosiveness is going to get him the takedowns early. Look for Shane to fight back to his feet; no way he can fight off his back if Mir couldn’t. If Shane is successful at getting back to his feet, his fist may find Brock’s chin. However, I think Brock will be too much for Shane and will TKO him at the end of the first round. 

Pedro Rizzo: Carwin has heavy hands, hits harder and is also good in wrestling. I think he wins. 

Mike Ciesnolevicz: Now this is a hard fight to call. I have gone back and forth for the last year with friends, family, teammates and people at the grocery store about this one. I have had the opportunity to roll with Lesnar in the past and also do ground-and-pound drills with him since somebody in Iowa who was a former UFC champ decided to take the week off and shadowbox when he visited two years ago (laughs). Lesnar was a beast then; I can’t imagine how much better he is now. If he executes his gameplan, Carwin is in a lot of trouble being stuck underneath. Carwin is not the same level of wrestler Lesnar is, but I think he has enough size and wrestling to be able to keep the fight standing or against the cage long enough to pull off the win. Lesnar is still a bit gunshy on the feet, and I think Carwin obviously is not. I picked Gonzaga and Mir both to derail Carwin, but he proved me wrong. Carwin wins by TKO but then loses to the best heavyweight in the UFC right now -- Cain Velasquez. 

Matt Hamilton: I pick Brock. I think his skill set is vastly underrated because his physical attributes are so strong. At heavyweight, everyone has a puncher’s chance, and Carwin has more of one than most. I just don’t think a puncher’s chance makes up for Brock’s advantage in speed, reach, skills and, most likely, strength. Hillary [Williams] is gonna choke me for picking Brock since her and Shane are both MTX fighters, but I gotta go with the Freight Trane by TKO in the first or second round. 

Cristiano Marcello: I think Carwin is the more complete fighter. Lesnar has evolved a lot but not yet reached the level of Carwin, who hits harder. Carwin wins. 

Benji Radach: Carwin is a pretty rugged hombre. I gotta be a little concerned with Lesnar’s athleticism and size. However, I always like to go with the underdog if he has a puncher’s chance. Carwin has had some steep opposition in the past and blasted himself right through it. I think Lesnar could win by controlling the fight with takedowns and smothering Carwin and possibly ground-and-pounding his way to his own TKO or KO, but I think Carwin is more of the brawling type on the feet and enjoys staying in the pocket and letting them fly. I think he may be able to pull off an upset in this one by TKO or KO. Carwin wins via TKO or KO.

Bill Mesi: I’m picking Carwin solely based on the fact that I wish ill things to happen to Brock. There, I said it, and I feel better about it. 

Amilcar Alves: In my opinion, Shane Carwin wins by having much more speed and volume during the fight. The only concern he should have is in relation to the exceptional explosion and the heavy hands of Brock Lesnar. But I think Shane Carwin is more rhythmic and can maintain a better pace. I think Shane wins by decision. 

Lee Mein: I think both guys are going to be so scared of each other’s power that they will stand back and not engage each other, causing the crowd to boo and the fight to end in a unanimous draw. It could happen (laughs). 

James Zikic: Now we’re going to see Brock’s chin tested, and it will be interesting to see how the layoff has affected him. Shane is a great finisher, but I think Brock is probably made of sterner stuff. I go for Brock via second-round TKO. 

Rick Roufus: I’m picking Carwin big by KO [with a] right hand. 

Gustavo Machado: I think Carwin wins. Although Lesnar is stronger, he has no technique and tries to knock people down. I believe in Carwin standing. If he lands a punch, Lesnar drops. 

Stephane Vigneault: I see in Carwin finally somebody to take that belt from Lesnar. Big right hand from Carwin, then Lesnar is hurt and finished by TKO ground-and-pound referee stoppage. Carwin over Lesnar, TKO round two. 

Gabriel Ruediger: Going with Carwin. This fight should be interesting, and if it gets out of two rounds, it will be surprising. 

Jess Liaudin: Carwin by dragon punch in the second. He’s been a more active fighter, and his boxing is sharper. On top of that, he’s got Master Yoda in his corner. Umm, I mean Greg Jackson. 

Anthony Leone: Lesnar is a better grappler, and that will wear on Carwin through the fight. Lesnar in the third round by TKO, but anything is possible in this fight. 

Thales Leites: I think it will be a tough fight, but I bet and hope for a victory KO victory for Carwin. 

Robin Black: The concept of these 943-pound behemoths beating the “scheisse” out of each other is a little unsettling. You almost don’t want to watch it, but let’s face it, you have to. Carwin will win by first-round KO. Then he’ll eat a brontosaurus burger with his crazy big Flintstones hands. 

Kit Cope: I’m thinking the same thing that most of the people I know are thinking, which is that, finally, here’s somebody big enough and strong enough to get that gigantic phallic tattoo out of our faces. Carwin and his lunchbox hands should be able to get the job done. This ends by knockout early, unless Brock can hold Shane down for a minute. In that case, it ends by KO a minute into the second round after Lesnar’s spent. 

Adam Singer: I have to admit that I have no idea who is going to win. I just had dinner with Forrest Griffin and Todd Duffee, and neither one had any idea, so I am going to go with the bigger puncher. I will take Carwin by KO, round one. 

Johnny Eduardo: Shane wins. Brock is more limited, despite being very explosive. I think Carwin keeps up the pressure and can win by knockout. 

Elvis Sinosic: This should be a great fight. It has so many interesting factors. It’s a unification bout. Both guys are the biggest guys in the division. Both are strong, hit hard and are very good wrestlers. Usually when two wrestlers fight, it turns into a slugfest, and that potential alone makes it interesting. It will also be a real test on the cage to see how it handles two behemoths crashing up against it. Now points for and against. Both have beaten Frank Mir dominantly. Carwin has the better record with more matches and no losses. Carwin put away Gonzaga. Lesnar put away Couture. Lesnar probably edges the quality of wins barely with Couture a better fighter than Gonzaga (notable differences in their top wins). Lesnar will probably be the bigger guy on the night, but will it be enough to make any difference? Both guys have great chins and have come back from being hit. Carwin seems to get hit more than Lesnar does. Both are top-notch wrestlers, with Lesnar having the better credentials. Carwin has the one-shot-good-night ability. Carwin has never gone the distance. Lesnar can and has gone the distance. Lesnar is coming off serious illness and a long time off. There are a lot of factors going into this match. Both guys are big and dangerous fighters. Carwin has the ability to end this with one shot, as he has done so many times previously. Lesnar has shown that his chin is made of granite, and that may not be enough. Carwin has been put on his back by lesser wrestlers. Carwin has been dropped though shown great ability to recover. The edge should be to Carwin, as he ends all his fights. He has more fights and no losses, so, on paper, Carwin would be the obvious choice. If he ends it with one shot, I won’t be surprised, either, as he has those hands of granite. Saying that, I think Brock will win this. As long as he sticks to his wrestling and doesn’t get sucked into slugging away with Carwin, he should win this. He will press Carwin against the cage to tire him out. He will work to put Carwin on his back and pepper him with punches. He will slowly wear Carwin down. He will most likely win via TKO in the second or third round with ground-and-pound. 

Charlie Brenneman: My gut is saying Carwin. I think his hands are better than Lesnar’s, and he’ll be tough to take down. Every other time I’ve picked against Carwin, I’ve lost. Carwin by KO, round one. 

Scott Bieri: Darryl Dawkins and Shaquille O’Neal broke backboards. These two have the potential to break cages. Brock by Death Clutch. 

Vitor Ribeiro: I think Carwin wins. I think Lesnar will want to take him down fast and will leave an opening for the heavy hands of Carwin. 

Derrick Noble: While working my second job as a janitor at the local university, I noticed a difficult mathematical problem written on the chalkboard in the hallway. I was actually born with a gift of being able to solve these types of equations, so I took it upon myself to answer the problem. The next week a new, more difficult problem was on the board. As I finished answering the problem, the professor came out of his room, only to see me writing on the board. Since I don’t like the attention my genius brings, I ran away quickly to avoid confrontation. Later that week, the professor tracked me down, and to my surprise, it was Nick Thompson. I told Nick I like to solve math problems, but I also have a bad temper and get into fights. I explained my current situation in which I was going to trial for assaulting a police officer. Nick used his pull and convinced the judge to go lenient on me if I agreed to see a therapist. Nick introduced to his old college roommate, who agreed to help me with my inner demons. Throughout our sessions, we spoke a lot about upcoming MMA fights. We began analyzing the upcoming Lesnar-Carwin fight. I told Sean that I think Carwin will win this after he survives an early ground-and-pound attack in the first round. Sean agreed with my assessment of the fight. Normally, it would be hard for me to open up with my thoughts on upcoming MMA fights, but Sean has taught me that the demons I deal with are not my fault, and it’s OK to be open with my fight predictions. I pick Carwin by round-two TKO. 

Pros who picked Lesnar: 14 
Pros who picked Carwin: 38
Pros who couldn’t decide: 9


----------



## Dakota?

Im going to laugh my ass off if Brock KO's Carwin standing up.


----------



## dario03

Wow, I thought the pro-picks would be closer. Also surprised there was 61 picks in there, didn't seem like it when reading.



Dakota? said:


> Im going to laugh my ass off if Brock KO's Carwin standing up.


Brock by a pure Ko would be kind of surprising. However a knockdown with follow up shots leading to ref stoppage wouldn't be to surprising. Maybe a short elbow while in the clinch...


----------



## BWoods

Figured more people would give Brock a chance. I think if Shane doesn't knock him out with his first two or three 1-2 attempts then he'll be on his back and take a savage beating. If he survives till the second then it'll be the same thing, but even more in Brock's favor.

Brock by TKO R2


----------



## michelangelo

Brock and Shane bromance hug 2:13 into the second round...


----------



## TheBadGuy

I have a feeling that Lesnar will take this but I hope that Carwin can pull it off.

Lesnar by gogoplata.....Seriously, Lesnar by TKO RD2


----------



## limba

LOL at Petruzelli's comment.
Kinda mixed predictions from the pro's. It's gonna be interesting.


----------



## Hammerlock2.0

I'm shocked by the disrespect Brock still gets for having been a professional wrestler from some guys. You'd think everybody would have acknowledged that's he's legit by now, especially the fighters. "The only thing that could make this better would be Cain Velasquez running in and turning this into a three-way death match." Hardy-freaking-har.


----------



## Rauno

Petruzelli's comment was weird.  Lol at Tito liking Brock cuz he seems a lot of himself in him.


----------



## Guy Incognito

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> I'm shocked by the disrespect Brock still gets for having been a professional wrestler. You'd think everybody would have acknowledged that's he's legit by now.


yeah you can tell the majority of the people who said carwin are just haters.


shit like
carwins faster
carwins a natural striker
carwins a deeper MMA fighter
carwin is a complete MMA fighter
Although Lesnar is stronger, he has no technique and tries to knock people down. (thats the definition of carwin)


----------



## Johnni G

Can't remember the last time I was this hyped for a match.

Brock G&P round 2 tko.


----------



## boney

elvis is always long winded.:confused05:

thanks for posting.


----------



## Guy Incognito

Johnni G said:


> Can't remember the last time I was this hyped for a match.
> 
> Brock G&P round 2 tko.


yeah im psyched as well but very nervous at the same time, much like shougn/machida 1 & 2


----------



## MADDSNIPER

i was hoping they would ask Cung Li, he prob. would have said Carwin by decision.


----------



## chilo

guy incognito said:


> Tito Ortiz: I think it’s probably one of the biggest fights of the year at heavyweight. Brock Lesnar -- I’m a big fan, huge fan. *I’m going back to my old wrestling days, of course,* [with] him being a collegiate wrestler. I’ve always been a huge fan, but Shane Carwin has the skills to become the next heavyweight champ. I kind of look at the paper, black or white and who’s going to win or not. I think Carwin’s going to pull it off, but I hope Brock is going to make it happen and continue being the champ. I have a liking for Brock. *I see a lot of myself in him,* and I think he’s good for the sport. But, yeah, I do [think Carwin will win]. I just think his stand-up skills are a little better than Brock’s. He’s got a lot more experience, having 12 fights, big fights, and you saw how fast he dismantled Frank Mir. I just think if Shane Carwin can defend the takedown, he should win the fight. But if he can’t defend the takedown, then he’s going to be in trouble.


really tito? nobody cares about you anymore.


----------



## Johnni G

who are all these guys?


----------



## No_Mercy

Geez that was a longer list than usual. Didn't recognize half the fighters/trainers/analysts on there. 

Too many quotables. My fav is

Marcus Davis: Carwin by KO in one. We will see Brock get hit by a man his size and will go *sleepy, sleepy.* *I hope I don’t see Brock if he reads this. *

Lolz...

Hope it's three rounds though although I'm going with Carwin. No matter who wins I expect a rematch...


----------



## raymel1

While I like Carwin as a fighter, I honestly can't believe he has a snowball's chance in hell, IF he doesnt KO Lesnar in the 1st 45 seconds of the 1st round.

Weve all seen Brock Lesnar go the distance, while Carwin hasnt made it out of the 1st round (maybe 2nd?)

I think Lesnar is to much of a Beast for Carwin (but I could be wrong) and Lesnar wins with a KO or TKO in the 2nd round....

just my .02


----------



## edlavis88

Wow no one likes Brock! What i'd love to see is Brock get an early takedown then as Carwin is defending the GnP, Lesnar slap on a Kimura and win by sub! Cant image people doubting Brock if he gets a sub win!


----------



## Rauno

Never thought about a sub finish. I think nobody did. It could happen though.


----------



## edlavis88

In a lot of Brock's training Videos he has been shown going for subs, would make it a much more interesting fight if he has some sort of sub offense in his locker. Seeing as we haven't really seen Carwin on the floor and defending subs, cos he always KOs people first!!


----------



## raymel1

I have to wonder, what if Lesnar Submits Carwin after getting tagged a cpl times, what then will the Lesnar haters say....

I like Carwin, but there is just no way I can believe he can tame the Beast, that is Brock Lesnar..., if he doenst Tame him in the 1st 45 seconds of the `1st round....


----------



## Guy Incognito

edlavis88 said:


> In a lot of Brock's training Videos he has been shown going for subs, would make it a much more interesting fight if he has some sort of sub offense in his locker. Seeing as we haven't really seen Carwin on the floor and defending subs, cos he always KOs people first!!


thats what i have been thinking, because just before murr vs carwin, murr was talking his usual shit and brocks camp came out and said "don't be surprised if brock walks home with an arm" or something along those lines.


----------



## Budhisten

> Bill Mesi: I’m picking Carwin solely based on the fact that I wish ill things to happen to Brock. There, I said it, and I feel better about it.


Damn, what a disrespectful prick... Seems like all the haters are swinging for the fences on this one


----------



## _JB_

Is there a video can't be reading all that?


----------



## Nefilim777

Man I NEVER thought the majority would swing towards Carwin. Hopefully they're right.


----------



## cdtcpl

Aren't the pro's like almost always wrong?


----------



## edlavis88

Its funny how many of the heavyweights asked rip into Brock and critise him, but if offered a fight with him they would run a mile!


----------



## Rusty

Gabe Ruidiger shouldn't get a vote. Put me back on the bike B.J:sad02:


----------



## cdtcpl

raymel1 said:


> I have to wonder, what if Lesnar Submits Carwin after getting tagged a cpl times, what then will the Lesnar haters say....
> 
> I like Carwin, but there is just no way I can believe he can tame the Beast, that is Brock Lesnar..., if he doenst Tame him in the 1st 45 seconds of the `1st round....


:laugh: Lesnar via flying armbar?


----------



## locnott

chilo said:


> really tito? nobody cares about you anymore.


Fukin Tito, He is so in love with himself.
wish he would fight or retire, SOON.


----------



## TheCleeM

RustyRenegade said:


> Gabe Ruidiger shouldn't get a vote. Put me back on the bike B.J:sad02:


now that is hilarious. always good when i get a chance to remember bj and gray maynard doing their death voices "coach..... just put me back in..."


----------



## War

guy incognito said:


> Doug Marshall: Well, that’s hard to call; they’re both beasts. I think we might see the Octagon break (laughs). They both hit hard, and both [are] good wrestlers. I think if Carwin gets him to the ground and slaps on a camel clutch, it’s over. On the other hand, if Brock can get to the top and Jimmy “Superflys” him, he might squish Carwin. Final analysis is … pandemonium.


I both laughed and sighed at this. While it's funny to me it also still shows that no matter what happens people won't let go of Brocks Pro Wrestling past. 

It's OK though. This non-pro pick goes to Brock Lesnar by GORE! GORE! GORE! (Since Paul Heyman will be there with him.)


----------



## boney

CARWIN by kick to the corn bag with a frozen boot. 


carwin by whatever he want's


----------



## The Horticulturist

In 12 hours I will be screaming "HURRY UP! KNOCK HIM OUT AND GET TO THE MAIN EVENT" 

Maybe they could reverse the card just for me so my blood pressure isn't peaking for the entire broadcast.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

omfg does Tito really have to talk about himself in everything?!?! Dude needs a banhammer from talking. 

I laughed at Monson thinking this fight goes to a decision.


----------



## ash

Wow, pretty one-sided. I wonder how many of these guys are the same ones who picked Couture over Lesnar 28-6? Haha


----------



## justmike79

SJ said:


> In 12 hours I will be screaming "HURRY UP! KNOCK HIM OUT AND GET TO THE MAIN EVENT"
> 
> Maybe they could reverse the card just for me so my blood pressure isn't peaking for the entire broadcast.


lol id 2nd that notion. I really REALLY want Carwin to win this thing. But saldy there are just way too maney variables to bank on any guy walking away with the W. I guess the main reason that I want BL to lose is cause I dont wanna hear him gloat about the fact that he is the best and that no man can stop him. On the other hand im sure if Carwin wins there WILL be a rematch when "Brock is back at 100%". Cause you KNOW that will be the outcome if Carwin wins. BL may not say it but the moment Carwin is declared the winner ppl will start throughing the "well Brock was rusty or he hasnt recovered" card. in any event I havent been this excited about a fight since Matt hughes fought R. Gracie


----------



## The Legacy

This is just too close to call. This is definitely Lesnar's biggest challenge so far in his short career, but then again there are still a fair few question marks against Carwin as well. How would he react to being taken down? Would he be able to cope in the later rounds of a fight? 

I'll be cheering for Carwin but my pick is Lesnar at the moment, just because he's such a beast and I think he'll be looking for the takedown and top control, avoiding Carwin's power punches at all costs.


----------



## Dream-On-101

The nerves are really starting to kick in now! I think this may be the most excited/nervous i have been for a fight since Chuck v Rampage (and that one went the way i wanted it to!).

I still have absolute confidence in Brock - i am convinced he will beat Carwin. But anything can happen, and my favourite fighters have been letting me down alot recently (i am looking at you Rampage, and you Fedor). 

Brock by TKO 2nd Round. Please.


----------



## Blitzz

Blitzz said:


> Ive got Lesnar winning at the end of the 1st round via RNC.
> 
> Carwin has a punches chance, and that is all against Lesnar.


Still going with my original prediction.


----------



## justmike79

The Legacy said:


> This is just too close to call. This is definitely Lesnar's biggest challenge so far in his short career, but then again there are still a fair few question marks against Carwin as well. How would he react to being taken down? Would he be able to cope in the later rounds of a fight?
> 
> I'll be cheering for Carwin but my pick is Lesnar at the moment, just because he's such a beast and I think he'll be looking for the takedown and top control, avoiding Carwin's power punches at all costs.


Carwin was taken down once by Gonzaga, and b4 every1 jumps on that band wagon. . .keep in mind Gonzaga is a world class BJJ black belt (and strong too).Carwin did keep his cool and was able to get to his feet. as far as endurance is concerned I dont see that being a problem. Sure he is known for putting ppl to sleepy time and quickly but I am sure that he trains his cardio very hard.



Dream-On-101 said:


> The nerves are really starting to kick in now! I think this may be the most excited/nervous i have been for a fight since Chuck v Rampage (and that one went the way i wanted it to!).
> 
> I still have absolute confidence in Brock - i am convinced he will beat Carwin. But anything can happen, and my favourite fighters have been letting me down alot recently (i am looking at you Rampage, and you Fedor).
> 
> Brock by TKO 2nd Round. Please.


lol I like your comments there. I could KNOW that Carwin can and will win this 1. but as it has been shown in MMA 100 times over and 100 times again, all it takes is that 1 second and its all over but the cryin. 

Fact:

both men are HUGE, prolly the bigges men I have seen in a long time (if ever). Both have retard strength, and both have very solid backrounds in wrestling. BL should NOT keep this fight on his feet. if he does he will lose.
on the other side of the coin the longer it stays on the ground the better chances Carwin stands to get dominated. Make no mistake if BL imposses his game he will win (whether I like it or not). so in conclusion idkwtf is going to win this 1. but im hoping Carwin KO/TKO 2.5 minutes into th 2nd


----------



## UrbanBounca

justmike79 said:


> Carwin was taken down once by Gonzaga, and b4 every1 jumps on that band wagon. . .keep in mind Gonzaga is a world class BJJ black belt (and strong too).Carwin did keep his cool and was able to get to his feet. as far as endurance is concerned I dont see that being a problem. Sure he is known for putting ppl to sleepy time and quickly but I am sure that he trains his cardio very hard.


What does BJJ have to do with anything? Wrestling is what Carwin has to defend this time.


----------



## coldcall420

No more waiting...WE ALL WIN!!!!!!:thumb02:


----------



## justmike79

UrbanBounca said:


> What does BJJ have to do with anything? Wrestling is what Carwin has to defend this time.


the entire question was "how would Carwin handle being taken down" BJJ had nothing to do with it.


----------



## Iuanes

Like 3 pages and no one's mentioned the Good Will Hunting answers?? Are you guys such lazy skimmer's?

Shit was hilarious. "My Fields' medal leads me to believe...."


----------



## Freiermuth

Really suprised at the vote, personally I want Carwin to win and he does have a good shot, but Lesnar should be the favorite.


----------



## Gyser

coldcall420 said:


> No more waiting...WE ALL WIN!!!!!!:thumb02:


Agreed! I'm kinda' pulling for Carwin tonight, but I'm a fan of Brocks too, it's win win, hoping this is going to be the fight its hyped as (however unlikley that may be!)

Heres hoping for a 5 round war, but I'll go with Carwin by 1st round KO.


----------



## The505Butcher

I want to pull a Cartman and freeze myself until Leben comes to the cage. The rest of the card is great but I just can not wait until Carwin KOs Lesnar!:thumb02:


----------



## daveh98

Iuanes said:


> Like 3 pages and no one's mentioned the Good Will Hunting answers?? Are you guys such lazy skimmer's?
> 
> Shit was hilarious. "My Fields' medal leads me to believe...."


So is that your thing? You just come into forums and pick fights because you are a first year yellow Belt level grad student? Trying to be smarter than the other members? See, the sad thing about a guy like you is in 50 years you're gonna staht doin some thinkin on your own and you're gonna come up with the fact that there are two certaintees in life. One, don't do that. And Two, you dropped a hundred and fifty grand on a fuckin BJJ Belt you coulda got for a dollah fifty in late chahges at James Toney's Gold Belt Bonanza school of MMA. :thumb02:


----------



## edlavis88

daveh98 said:


> So is that your thing? You just come into forums and pick fights because you are a first year yellow Belt level grad student? Trying to be smarter than the other members? See, the sad thing about a guy like you is in 50 years you're gonna staht doin some thinkin on your own and you're gonna come up with the fact that there are two certaintees in life. One, don't do that. And Two, you dropped a hundred and fifty grand on a fuckin BJJ Belt you coulda got for a dollah fifty in late chahges at James Toney's Gold Belt Bonanza school of MMA. :thumb02:


I loled!


----------



## Iuanes

daveh98 said:


> So is that your thing? You just come into forums and pick fights because you are a first year yellow Belt level grad student? Trying to be smarter than the other members? See, the sad thing about a guy like you is in 50 years you're gonna staht doin some thinkin on your own and you're gonna come up with the fact that there are two certaintees in life. One, don't do that. And Two, you dropped a hundred and fifty grand on a fuckin BJJ Belt you coulda got for a dollah fifty in late chahges at James Toney's Gold Belt Bonanza school of MMA. :thumb02:


you're a genius Dave. No one denies that. No one could possibly understand the depths of your MMA knowledge.

But you presume to know everything about me because you saw a post of mine, and you ripped my ******* fight prediction apart. You're on Sherdog right?

You think I know the first thing about how hard your life has been, how you feel, who you are, because I browse the site once in awhile? Does that encapsulate you? 

Personally... I don't give a shit about all that, because you know what, I don't know shit about Lesnars standup, I can't see in a Raw replay. Unless you want to talk about the Heath Herring fight. Then I'm fascinated. I'm in. But you don't want to do that do you sport? You're terrified of what Dana might say if he ever beat Fedor.

:thumbsup:


----------



## _JB_




----------



## UFCFAN89

I've got Brock by t/ko in the 3rd...
I see him taking Shane down early and trying to wear him out. We'll get to see how good Carwin's wrestling/cardio is imo.


----------



## WhiteWolf

According to UFC Undisputed 2010, Carwin wins.
http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc-undispu...-leben-vs-akiyama-simulation.html#post1216063


----------



## bmo37

I think it's going to be a Carwin KO in the first round. I think Brock's chin is suspect and he has gotten away thus far by being way bigger than his opponents and man handeling them, no longer does he have this advantage.


----------



## Warning

Carwin wins in the first 30 seconds. Brock is going fake, then shoot, then get KO on the way in. Easy fight for Carwin.


----------



## justmike79

Warning said:


> Carwin wins in the first 30 seconds. Brock is going fake, then shoot, then get KO on the way in. Easy fight for Carwin.


I like your theory, and as much as I would LOVE to see that happen, I just dont see it. but it would be awesome though lol. 4 more hours till the fights kick off 

this is how I see the fight going down :fight02: Carwin beating Lesnar into a bloody mess


----------



## Trix

I still say Brock takes this.

Carwin is too one-dimensional. Doesn't throw leg kicks, doesn't go for the takedown, doesn't go to the body. The only thing Carwin aims for is the chin. Its the only area a person needs to defend.

I think Brock(unlike everyone else Carwin fought) has this figured out. 

This is why Brock will win!


----------



## Hellboy

Lot of haters in this thread. 

How anyone can use the Carwin/Gonzagha fight as a reason as to why Carwin will win is ridiculous.

And all the question marks about Lesnar's body, I though Carwin didnt look as defined as usual.


----------



## BobbyCooper

I still have to go with Brock here.. I believe he can control Carwin on the ground and pound him to a TKO stoppage late in the third Round.


----------



## dario03

The closer this fight gets the more worried I am about my pick. However I think I will stay with Lesnar for the win.


----------



## justmike79

Hellboy said:


> Lot of haters in this thread.
> 
> How anyone can use the Carwin/Gonzagha fight as a reason as to why Carwin will win is ridiculous.
> 
> And all the question marks about Lesnar's body, I though Carwin didnt look as defined as usual.


again wasnt a prediction, was a conversation about something entirely diffrent. so gtfo


----------



## raymel1

justmike79 said:


> again wasnt a prediction, was a conversation about something entirely diffrent. so gtfo


wow, a whole 12 posts and you tell someone to gtfo, now thats smooth alright........:sarcastic12:


----------



## limba

Carwin by TKO. Not goona go to deep, but i think at one point he will tag Brock and he will fall. Carwin will follow him and fight over.


----------



## _RIVAL_

Hellboy said:


> Lot of haters in this thread.
> 
> How anyone can use the Carwin/Gonzagha fight as a reason as to why Carwin will win is ridiculous.
> 
> And all the question marks about Lesnar's body, I though Carwin didnt look as defined as usual.


Thought I was the only one who noticed that.


----------



## Terry77

All about speed and how easy Lesnar can take Carwin down. Brock takes a tko midway through the second.


----------



## zkorejo

> Carwin by TKO. Not goona go to deep, but i think at one point he will tag Brock and he will fall. Carwin will follow him and fight over.


I dont see that happening to Brock in the first round. And if the fight goes to the second round, nobody knows if Carwin will be able to do that to Brock even with his XXXX large fists because Carwin has never been to the second round. But BL has.

Carwin doesnt move at all, he stands still and waits for his opportunities to punch. I think, even *IF* Lesnar is not more powerful, a better wrestler or as experienced as Carwin, he still is much quicker than him. 
BL will not be Carwin's punching bag. Lesnar knows he is faster and he will use that.


----------



## Terry77

How does "ufclivestreams" get a registered account?

Ninja edit: nevermind

Anybody think Lesnar is capable of using his reach advantage? He seems to have a sneakily good right hand when guys are moving in


----------



## Polymath

My first post. Hopefully that doesn't equate to a requisite e-hazing. 

In the last six months or so, I've become rather immersed in researching the novel I plan to begin writing soon. The protagonist is a recently decommissioned, 30-something Force Recon Marine. Quickly bored with civilian life, he decides to apply the various fighting disciplines in which he was trained during his special forces stint to a new avocation: MMA. 

This is only one aspect of a very complex character, but I wanted to be certain I could write about MMA with at least a modicum of credibility. Hence, in recent months I've been enlightening myself in fairly extensive fashion. That research has led me to a passion for the sport and a distinct interest in the Lesnar - Carwin fight.

That said, my agreement lies with those who have successfully extracted bias from their analysis and have come to this conclusion: the outcome is certainly to be determined by the manner in which the fight ends up being fought. I don't think anyone would argue that if Lesnar allows his ego to supersede his core strategy (which, to no one's surprise, is to take this thing to the ground), and he tries to prove that he can bang with Carwin, this fight is going to conclude in rapid measure. The short range punches inherent to Carwin’s dirty boxing are, in many cases, more devastating than the fully-loaded punches of many other HW fighters. I also think that Carwin has about as much chance of connecting with one of his frighteningly powerful right hands as Lesnar does of successfully shooting in and putting Carwin on his back. If, however, Lesnar can manage one or more successful takedowns that result in several minutes of top control and intermittent GnP, Lesnar could just as easily send Carwin into an unwilling somnolence.

Wrestling Ability

Carwin’s wrestling pedigree, despite being Div. II, is top flight. I don’t think there’s an enormous gap in ability, but there is a gap nonetheless. I have some personal knowledge to share. My cousin—an excellent wrestler in high school who, despite a career-threatening knee injury, posted a respectable collegiate career as well—was a teammate and friend of Stephen Neal’s at Cal State. As many of you probably know, Neal narrowly defeated Lesnar in the HW final at the ’99 NCAA tournament. After the match, he confided in my cousin that he was fortunate to win that match; that had Lesnar had a year or two more of Div I experience, he probably would have been hard-pressed to beat him. Neal said that locking up with Lesnar was akin to trying to overpower a pissed off buffalo. He said Lesnar’s pure strength was like nothing he’d ever experienced in any other wrestler. That was over 10 years ago and *may* not prove relevant tonight, but I believe it will. Even given Carwin's impressive background in wrestling, I think he should do whatever he must to avoid this fight becoming a ground war.

Strength vs Strength

Carwin is by far the more explosive striker. He has shown considerable aptitude at generating power from his legs and hips (vs merely his arms). His right is his bomb, but he has terrifying knockout power in both hands. If either of his hands finds a clear path to square contact on Lesnar’s chin, Carwin fans will be treated to an abrupt conclusion in his favor. I also think, though, that Lesnar is, speaking in universal terms, the more powerful man. 

Speaking of which, these two are quite the dichotomy in respect to their physiques. Standing toe-to-toe, with fists raised, Lesnar appears of only slightly greater physical substance than Carwin. But . . . if you pause the weigh-in just after Lesnar steps off the scale and both have their backs to the camera, the difference in size and proportion becomes palpable. Lesnar’s upper body (his back in particular) is much larger and of far more impressive musculature than Carwin’s. Lesnar also has a deeper, more barrel-shaped chest (at least by physical appearance) that implies superior power through the thoracal region and shoulders. On the other hand, Carwin has the thicker, more powerful (again, in appearance) lower body. I have a feeling it’s those giant sequoia quads that allow the guy to power up when he’s taken down and dazed (a la against Gonzaga). It will be interesting to see what happens if these two behemoths find themselves in a position that directly pits Lesnar’s massive upper-body strength against Carwin’s excellent imitation of a 700pound squat.

By the way, did anyone find it kind of humorous that Carwin was the only dude to slip back on his (incognito) shoes prior to posing? Undoubtedly, that was an effort to narrow the gap in height, which is more than what the official numbers would have us believe. Even with the shoes on, he was still roughly an inch shy of the gargantuan cranium beneath Lesnar’s odious taste in hair dos. 

X-factors

- Lesnar: His long layoff and the impact of the illness on his endurance (assuming endurance in this fight will even be necessary). 

Impression: Lesnar is leaner and tighter than I’ve ever seen him look since he began his MMA career, which suggests he trained very hard, ate right, and did a ton of cardio. Rust could have a detrimental effect, but I think his conditioning is primed. Whatever he lost to the illness he seems to have regained. Don’t think it will play a role in this fight.

- Carwin: How he responds to being on his back (assuming he ends up on his back) and finding himself unable to overpower his opponent in his efforts to get back to his feet (again, a la as he *was* able to do in the Gonzaga fight, just prior to dropping him). 

Impression: I truly believe that Carwin will be the most difficult takedown Lesnar has faced to date. I’m certain in training camp he focused heavily on improving/perfecting his sprawl. Also, with Jackson in his corner, I have little doubt Carwin has a nasty knee or some unexpected rocket uppercut in store for Lesnar when he attempts to shoot. Carwin will not be put on his back easily, especially considering he wants the majority of this fight to be stand-up. If he does end up on his back, I just can’t see him panicking. Either the guy is a great actor, or he really is that ice. If Lesnar is successful in taking him down, I think Carwin will be calm, methodical, and patient, waiting for his opportunity to either stand up or pull off a reverse. In the latter case, I think it’s Lesnar who might begin to panic.

My Pick

Even as I have to pick one of these guys, I’ll still be far from certain after that pick is disclosed. My gut is that Lesnar is going to be very patient and cautious in the first 30 to 60 seconds of the fight. He’ll circle Carwin and keep a prudent distance. I think Lesnar will wait on Carwin to make the first aggressive move. If they do this cautious dance for more than a couple minutes, I think Carwin will begin to narrow the distance and move in. If he allows frustration to incite him to hurl the first bomb, I think Lesnar will duck underneath it and go for the takedown. Lesnar’s speed will be a notch quicker than Carwin’s reaction and the fight will go to the ground. Lesnar will punish Carwin, but no significantly enough to end the fight. Not at least in the first round. I think this routine will repeat itself several times before the fight ends, with Lesnar winning by a hard-fought and exhausting GnP TKO. 

Now, if Carwin catches Lesnar flush, my prediction goes to shit. 

Enjoy the fight, everyone.


----------



## Terry77

tl;dr


----------



## zkorejo

> Jason Von Flue: I’m thinking Carwin is going to beat the poop out of Lesnar in this one. Carwin has the size and power to offset Lesnar’s raw size and wrestling and his lack of skill in striking. Carwin in round two by KO or TKO. The only thing that could make this better would be Cain Velasquez running in and turning this into a three-way death match. Oh, I shouldn’t say that; we might end up seeing that happen on Monday Night “Raw.” I really could imagine the WWE doing a parody of that.


This idiot just cannot digest the fact that a former WWE superstar "A fake fighter" is the UFC Heavyweight Champion atm and is dominating. Unlike himself who has never even sniffed the smell of a ufc championship.

When will some of these stupid fighters learn that WWE is entertainment but that doesnt mean the pro wrestlers are soft. Lenar and Lashley are the examples. Almost every pro-wrestler respects MMA fighters, why cant they do the same?

In the interview/video package, someone from Carwin's training camp was saying that Carwin believes Brock should go back to the WWE. Sure, they want that to happen! Because Brock is the threat to them. Saying that again and again will only make Brock more determined, see what he did to Frank Mir for making fun of his WWE background.

P.S. Its not three-way death match fuckhead! its Triple Threat.


----------



## coldcall420

Good lord....:bored04:


----------



## jdun11

*Brock will win and here is why*

Wrestling....You got a freakishly powerful wrestler, who was a D1 national champ. He made it to the finals as a junior and was the talk of the college wrestling world.

A powerful man himself, Shane Carwin won a division 2 national title. Which is impressive. But lets be honest, hes not the wrestler that Brock is. 

Once these two monsters clinch up, you will see the diference between the two. I expect this yo look alot like Brock's fight wwith Randy. Brock will have the edge in the wrestling department, and if Brock gets Carwin on his back he is in trouble.

I see alot of people writing about Carwin winning by KO. I dont see that happening. Brock has a huge head and his jaw is HUGE. Carwin has a small head for a guy his size, and I see Brock clipping him on that small chin of his and finishing him. Gonzaga almost did it, so Carwin has shown that he can be rocked.

Lesnar will finish Carwin in the 2md by TKO. I think it will be an awesome show while it lasts. But if Brock is healthy, he is the better wrestler, has the better chin and the reach advantage.


----------



## Dan9

Were you pitching the book, or making a pick?? LOL JK:cheeky4:

My pick, Carwin KO in the First Round.


----------



## zkorejo

^ LOL
But the idea of a mma based novel sounds interesting.


----------



## JimmyJames

I hope Brock destroys Carwin for 5 rounds.

I hate Carwin and his I'm the good guy vs the big evil bad man shit. 

And I'm not a Brock fan.


----------



## zkorejo

^^^ Exactly! He is just using Brock's bad bully image to be a fan favourite and UFC is supporting him to build this match as huge as possible by creating personal grudge for no good reason.

Why does Carwin hate Brock lesnar? just because he flipped at fans and/or did not shake hands with Mir?.. nonsense..

Now Lesnar/Mir hate was understandable. Carwin is just trying to be a "GOOD GUY" here.


----------



## HexRei

I bet on Carwin but now, watching the locker room footage- I'm a little worried. Carwin looks... uncomfortable. I hope its just the camera he's uncomfortable with, and not the whole fight.




JimmyJames said:


> I hope Brock destroys Carwin for 5 rounds.
> 
> I hate Carwin and his I'm the good guy vs the big evil bad man shit.
> 
> And I'm not a Brock fan.


man, he's just selling the fight, just like lesnar does. he has personally posted in a few threads elsewhere and said that he has no animosity whatsoever toward Brock. Journalists want fighters to act excited and motivated, so does the UFC. But Carwin definitely does not have any real problem with Brock other than that he has to beat him tonight.


----------



## coldcall420

HexRei said:


> I bet on Carwin but now, watching the locker room footage- I'm a little worried. Carwin looks... uncomfortable. I hope its just the camera he's uncomfortable with, and not the whole fight.


 
Dont sweat it Hex......Carwin is going to win, I called Dana....:thumbsup:


----------



## americanfighter

Is it just me or does brock's shoulders look alot smaller?


----------



## K R Y

Since when is Poland down under?  Gotta love Goldy.


----------



## AmdM

It´s time to break the Octogon...

Im so excited for this i can almost cry!


OUCH


----------



## Blitzz

Its almost time. Cannot wait anymore.


----------



## Redline7

My hands are starting to sweat. . .


----------



## Shoegazer

All the fights have been sick so far...can this one live up to all the hype? If it can, this is the best UFC I've ever seen.


----------



## CamTheCaveman

please tell me carwin puts lesnar to sleep with the first punch..ray01:


----------



## K R Y

Heeeeeere weeeeeeee gooooooooo


----------



## americanfighter

Don't see this going out of the first.


----------



## 420atalon

I am so pumped for this fight

War Lesnar!


----------



## BWoods

Annnd my stream drops right as the introductions start...


----------



## Acc1042

I wouldn't be suprised if Brock gets the KO.


----------



## HexRei

my feed cut out


----------



## CamTheCaveman

Theproof said:


> I'd rather have a great fight.


as would i if i were watching it, but i just have something against brock. I dont like him and ive never liked him. I guess im just wanting to see him get put down and make the **** he talked be for nothing and end up looking like an idiot.


----------



## Life B Ez

Calling it right now, going to be biggest let down of the year. Will be over in a couple seconds because neither guy has shown to have a serious chin or it will be Brock laying on top of Carwin for a while til he pounds him out.


----------



## Guymay

******* hell my heart is pumping

brock got a chin damn .


----------



## lagmonkey

Lesner looks like a scared turtle on his back. Holy shit!


----------



## The Horticulturist

holy *** BROCK IS QUITTING !



edit: SWEET HE ISN'T!


hey everyone, how is Brock's chin now?


----------



## CamTheCaveman

Theproof said:


> That's understandable lol. A lot of people do.


i just think that if brock should be the "undisiputed" HW champ, he should have had to go through all the HW. beat the contenders. not just have a couple fights and then be gifted a title shot. carwin has been doing really well lately and i think not having been in the cage for a while will play against lesnar


----------



## lagmonkey

SJ said:


> holy *** BROCK IS QUITTING !


I thought so too but it looks like he is surviving somehow.


----------



## HexRei

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


----------



## Woodenhead

Fight shoulda been stopped 5 times already


----------



## Gyser

holy shit what a start for shane!


----------



## Life B Ez

Brock is cage-a-doping him, letting Carwin punch himself out.


----------



## HexRei

brocka gonna have brain damage


----------



## Gyser

Woodenhead said:


> Fight shoulda been stopped 5 times already


hmm I did think that some refs might have stopped that. Especially after the initial shot that dropped Brock.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

First round total domination by Carwin, I can't believe Brock is still alive. I just hope Carwin isn't tired


----------



## Redline7

I wonder what gonna happen next round.

I'm shaky.


----------



## lagmonkey

Woodenhead said:


> Fight shoulda been stopped 5 times already


I hear what you are saying, and it looked close to being stopped a few times, but Brock was defending.

Br glad it didn't stop - now we get at least another round!


----------



## elessarcif

I am hoping Lesnar can recover. I think he can but only if he can get past Carwens very strong takedown defense and it will be dependant on Carwens stamina being weak. LOL primary just hoping.


----------



## BWoods

That could possibly have been a 10-8


----------



## HexRei

oh now we get to watch brock lay on carwin


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Wow Carwin is exhausted. Hopefully with Brock laying on him he can get some more juice and get hte KO


----------



## Life B Ez

Woodenhead said:


> Fight shoulda been stopped 5 times already


Refs always are slow on the stop in a championship fight, they don't want to stop it and have the guy stand right up and complain. It looks sooo bad. Think about Penn v Sanchez at 107, that should have been stopped three times too. Deigo went out a couple times.


----------



## elessarcif

Lets see what happens now. God damn I maybe it is cause it is 6am here but I am going crazy with adrenaline.


OMMGGGGG!!!!!!


----------



## Blitzz

Carwin was definately baited by Brock into punching himself out. He is gassed.


----------



## HexRei

wow, sheer strength


----------



## hatchmoses

brock by arm triangle??? WTF!!!!


----------



## lagmonkey

HOLY F*CKING SWEET FANCY MOSES!!!

By Submission? Are you kidding me?!


----------



## Iuanes

Naaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!


----------



## Redline7

Nice try Carwin.

Good job by Brock though..


----------



## Woodenhead

it figures

shoulda been stopped in the 1st

robbed


----------



## The Horticulturist

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Carwin had an awesome first round! But, Lesnar won 




Will anyone respect him at all now?  pretty please?


----------



## Life B Ez

ARE YOU ******* KIDDING ME!!!! Well kiddies, let's get used to Brock, he's going to be around a while.....


----------



## 420atalon

WOOOOOHOOOOO

Way to go Lesnar, thanks!!!


----------



## vilify

well damn


----------



## elessarcif

lol took just long enough in my reply. Damn good fight. Yes Brock earned that win. He took Carwens best. Carwen should not lose anything from this fight in terms of rankings though.


----------



## Dakota?

Wooooooooooooooooooowwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yess!!!!!!!!!!!1


----------



## Guymay

So brock got iron chin too , can't see anyone stopping him .


----------



## lagmonkey

Woodenhead said:


> it figures
> 
> shoulda been stopped in the 1st
> 
> robbed


Come on man. It was a great fight. I'm no fan of Lesner but he got the job done.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Woodenhead said:


> it figures
> 
> shoulda been stopped in the 1st
> 
> robbed


Agreed 100%. Props to Brock though


----------



## Kado

Wasn't expecting that.


----------



## WOGSY

Well done Brock..
That should silence some of the critics. (including me)

I really thought he was done for during round 1 but he turned that fight around and claimed the victory.
Pretty impressive considering his long lay off..

Well done Brock..


----------



## Shoegazer

Wow....just wow...

Lesnar paid some serious dues tonight


----------



## M_D

I am so happy right now i got tears in my eyes THAT WAS ******* AWESOME


----------



## diablo5597

*wtf!!! Holly Shit!*


----------



## Blitzz

**** yea. Chokes him out.


----------



## JuggNuttz

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA yeah bitches!!!!!!! took all carwin could give out and then made him TAP!!!!!!!!!! sooooo awesome!!!!


and now say hes disrespectul...... how awesome was this!


----------



## CamTheCaveman

Woodenhead said:


> it figures
> 
> shoulda been stopped in the 1st
> 
> robbed


from what ive been hearing (unable to watch) carwin should have won.
making brock curl up like a turtle? taking shots to where people who i believe are lesnar fans saying it should have been stopped? definitely robbed if thats what happened


----------



## Life B Ez

Guymay said:


> So brock got iron chin too , can't see anyone stopping him .


Not a chance, Shane hits harder than anyone in the division and Brock took it and came back to win. So Cain "pillow hands" isn't going to stop him and JDS will just get taken down.......I guess I need to get used to seeing that dick tatoo, it's going to be around a long time....


----------



## 420atalon

I better not hear that Lesnar can't take a punch, you could hit his chin with a car and he would survive.

Disappointed in his stand up(or cover up if you want to call it that), really thought it would be better then that. He will beat anyone that he can get onto the ground and on top of though, just too strong and skilled on the ground.


----------



## lagmonkey

SJ said:


> Will anyone respect him at all now?  pretty please?


Hell no. The conspiracy theories about Carwin being robbed started about 5-seconds before he actually lost.


----------



## Iuanes

Terror Kovenant said:


> Agreed 100%. Props to Brock though


How can say, 'it should have been stopped' if Brock wasn't knocked out, and ended the round trying to get Carwin down. He wasn't in trouble enough, he won the fight. That's the ultimate proof the fight shouldn't have been stopped.


----------



## bmo37

Lesnar stole one there he was getting pounded eating tons of shots, but he showed some skill finally in that second round with the submission.


----------



## Dan9

There goes most of my Vbookie credits LOL.


----------



## HexRei

BAHAHAHA I love all the F-bombs Carwin is dropping


----------



## locnott

And he does have a chin!!


----------



## Sousa

Im surprised this forum didn't explode just now.

Where are the haters now?Lemme guess Carwin is a can now all of the sudden?lol Anyways Carwin and Brock should have a rematch!. Carwin should have won but he punched himself out shame. He's the only guy who probably could beat Brock except HOPEFULLY and maybe Cain!


----------



## Heat02

lol.. some people can't get over the fact that Lesnar is the heavyweight champion.


----------



## Gyser

Got to say, pretty disappointed in Carwin there he must had to finish the fight there, you can say that Brocks chin is good but he was rocked then dropped, and props to Lesnar, he's just shown that he is getting more and more well rounded, win by arm triangle, never would have imagined.

I fear that the stacked HW division will be forever dominated by the human Donkey Kong that is Brock Lesnar.


----------



## The Horticulturist

what a sweet pay per view. 

I'm going to watch this one, a LOT.


----------



## Iuanes

Brock with an arm triangle too. The guy is a mixed martial artist, enough with the hate.


----------



## Trix

Brock is the only guy Carwin fought who was smart enough to protect his chin.

Brock, ftw~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## americanfighter

Guymay said:


> So brock got iron chin too , can't see anyone stopping him .


If carwin had some sub skill he would have won. Should have stopes throwing he could have subed him in the first.


----------



## Iuanes

Instant classic UFC event right here.


----------



## CamTheCaveman

Life B Ez said:


> I guess I need to get used to seeing that dick tatoo, it's going to be around a long time....


not unless you want to sneak laser remove it. i think it looks terrible. even if i didnt hate lesnar i wouldnt like it.


----------



## lagmonkey

With all the subs that Carwin has on his resume I thought for sure Brock was making a mistake when he transitioned from smothering him and started working some gorilla jitz ...

Boy was I wrong.


----------



## Mirage445

SJ said:


> what a sweet pay per view.
> 
> I'm going to watch this one, a LOT.


Agreed, one of the best in a looooong time.


----------



## Risto

Sousa said:


> Im surprised this forum didn't explode just now.
> 
> Where are the haters now?Lemme guess Carwin is a can now all of the sudden?lol Anyways Carwin and Brock should have a rematch!. Carwin should have won but he punched himself out shame. He's the only guy who probably could beat Brock except HOPEFULLY and maybe Cain!


I still don't like Lesnar, but sheesh... he just showed some balls, followed by skill. Hats off.

As for Carwin... Well, he just punched himself out. So far every one of his fights had ended in the first, which is just as well, because he evidently seems to have a small tank. Shame, because he's got skills and a punch from hell.


----------



## diablo5597

Brock can definitely take hits, but I think he really dislikes it more than anyone I've seen. This card was absolutely insane tonight.


----------



## Pretty Cool Guy

Brock Lesnar is my favorite fighter and a hero to me much like Lyoto Machida. Watching Machida lose was the most heartbreaking thing ever and I thought the same was going to happen to Brock. 

But Brock showed heart and grit that I can't even describe. Any other HW would have crumpled under that storm. I knew when his corner man asked him if he was okay and he replied, "I'm good" that he was going to win. 

I want to give tons of props to Shane tonight. he was a worthy contender, and he punches harder than anyone in MMA. I have a ton of respect for the class that he shows in victory and defeat. 

And last but not least, I'm really happy they showed each other respect during and after the fight. I think Brock has some maturing to do, and Shane was just the person to bring out the classy fighter in Brock Lesnar. 

I hope both men gained a ton of fans tonight.


----------



## K R Y

Damn that was an amazing event.


----------



## elessarcif

americanfighter said:


> If carwin had some sub skill he would have won. Should have stopes throwing he could have subed him in the first.


I doubt it, he still would have stayed with his strongest suit in that position. When you are in a dominant position you stick with what you dominate with. He wasnt in position for any form of submission and to get into position he would have moved out of strong GnP position.


----------



## Gyser

SJ said:


> what a sweet pay per view.
> 
> I'm going to watch this one, a LOT.


I've been consistently watching them now for a long time, and it was by far the most entertaining card I've seen, I stay up till 3am to watch these, it's 5:30am and all I wanna do is chat shit about the card with you lovely people instead of sleep.

Lesnar vs. Cain, bring it on.


----------



## Kasporelli

*Brocks Respect!!!*

I really thought that he was done after he went down, but he kept pushing Carwin off with his legs while his upper body could recover. If Carwin can't finish him, who can? He clearly had more cardio than Carwin starting the second round, and HE was the guy that almost got knocked out a minute ago. Amazing show by Brock Lesnar, he gets my respect, as should he get everyones. To me he now becomes the #1 Heavyweight in the world, and I'm a Fedor nuthugger. raise01:


----------



## Mirage445

Pretty Cool Guy said:


> Brock Lesnar is my favorite fighter and a hero to me much like Lyoto Machida. Watching Machida lose was the most heartbreaking thing ever and I thought the same was going to happen to Brock.
> 
> But Brock showed heart and grit that I can't even describe. Any other HW would have crumpled under that storm. I knew when his corner man asked him if he was okay and he replied, "I'm good" that he was going to win.
> 
> I want to give tons of props to Shane tonight. he was a worthy contender, and he punches harder than anyone in MMA. I have a ton of respect for the class that he shows in victory and defeat.
> 
> And last but not least, I'm really happy they showed each other respect during and after the fight. I think Brock has some maturing to do, and Shane was just the person to bring out the classy fighter in Brock Lesnar.
> 
> I hope both men gained a ton of fans tonight.


Brock is fine until people talk shit/disrespect him.

People should really realize that by now.


----------



## K R Y

Gyser said:


> I've been consistently watching them now for a long time, and it was by far the most entertaining card I've seen, I stay up till 3am to watch these, it's 5:30am and all I wanna do is chat shit about the card with you lovely people instead of sleep.
> 
> Lesnar vs. Cain, bring it on.


Quoted for exact same situation. :thumb02:


----------



## The505Butcher

Can not wait for the Rematch. Hopefully Carwin can pull a Lesnar and all of a sudden get a gass tank! Then this fight would be awesome!


----------



## xRoxaz

Does Carwin have the cardio for the next round I think that's been answered.


----------



## diablo5597

I definitely respect Brock, however, I think I would still favor Carwin in a rematch. Carwin is no doubt a better fighter in my mind, he just gassed out in the 2nd from throwing so many punches. Props to Brock though for executing the submission.


----------



## suffersystem

I hope for the love of god we don't have an instant rematch. Why bother having one then? That would be like what, two or three instant title rematches? Why don't we just have best of three then from now on to see who gets the title? 

I for one am glad that both fighters got tested, and they will both come out of this stronger and more determined and they'll know where to work on.


----------



## elessarcif

The505Butcher said:


> Can not wait for the Rematch. Hopefully Carwin can pull a Lesnar and all of a sudden get a gass tank! Then this fight would be awesome!


Well I think both guys know what to work on. Carwin needs to work on his stamina and Brock can work on his standup for guys with his kinda of takedown defense. I really think Brock should have stayed standup and tried to tire him some. Maybe that would have been bad but I think his goal of getting it to the ground immediately is the reason he became a turtle.


----------



## Blitzz

Brock really wasnt that close to getting KOed. After the first few big shots from Carwin, Lesnar covered up and block almost everything. Just really intelligent fighting on Lesnar's part to let Carwin punch himself out.

Lesnar just showed why he is the champion and why he is going to be a for a longtime.


----------



## Iuanes

I was just looking at the clock near the end. If Brock survived the first it would be a huge tactical and psychological shift in momentum. As soon as it reached Zero and Joe said Shane looked gas I knew Brock would at least take the 2nd round.


----------



## americanfighter

elessarcif said:


> I doubt it, he still would have stayed with his strongest suit in that position. When you are in a dominant position you stick with what you dominate with. He wasnt in position for any form of submission and to get into position he would have moved out of strong GnP position.


He may be able to next time though because he knows better and he will go for an arm bar or something after rocking him.


----------



## Guy Incognito

*Did Cain Enter The Octagon After Brock Won And If So What Happened?*

like it says in the thread title did he?


----------



## Blitzz

americanfighter said:


> He may be able to next time though because he knows better and he will go for an arm bar or something after rocking him.


He should of picked his shots better. Lesnar recovered very fast when he turtled up and Carwin just punched himself out.


----------



## elessarcif

suffersystem said:


> I hope for the love of god we don't have an instant rematch. Why bother having one then? That would be like what, two or three instant title rematches? Why don't we just have best of three then from now on to see who gets the title?
> 
> I for one am glad that both fighters got tested, and they will both come out of this stronger and more determined and they'll know where to work on.


I dont see an instant rematch on this one. I think they will want to see it simmer some. The problem is I think there is a large dropoff from Carwin so if you are being fair they should be fighting every other fight against each other no matter who wins if you go purely on who deserves to be the challenger.


----------



## marcthegame

I respect brock for surviving but this is a lopsided victory. Unlike going into the fight where i had lesnar dominating. In a rematch if Carwin has improve cardio, its a wrap for Lesnar. Lesnar can;t stand or take down shane at all..it just his cardio sucks.


----------



## UFC on VHS

I called the upset (not on the bookies) but I have to say I didn't see it going that way and I thought Lesnar was done in the first.


----------



## BROCKisGOD

Brock has Heart. Pure Clutch he survived Shane Ground


----------



## marcthegame

No Cain stayed put.


----------



## UFC on VHS

Nah he didn't he just kinda had a look on his face like "WTF can I do better then him?"

LOL Brock is going to maul him.


----------



## PinkPanther21

That was a great fight. I really thought Lesnar was done in the first round, I was amazed he was able to take all that punishment. The fact that he did so was pretty dang impressive and that was a great victory.

Carwin's a tough sob and gave Lesnar a great fight. Lesnar clearly respected him for it. Being a Lesnar fan, I was pretty thrilled. 

Solid PPV all the way through, I thought.


----------



## The505Butcher

elessarcif said:


> I dont see an instant rematch on this one. I think they will want to see it simmer some. The problem is I think there is a large dropoff from Carwin so if you are being fair they should be fighting every other fight against each other no matter who wins if you go purely on who deserves to be the challenger.


Well I know I am not going to be as excited about a HW fight until these two meet again... I just do not think Cain can beat Lesnar. Never did. Slight punchers chance.


----------



## marcthegame

UFCFAN18 said:


> Nah he didn't he just kinda had a look on his face like "WTF can I do better then him?"
> 
> LOL Brock is going to maul him.


LOL U really think that...if carwin did not gass that easily the champ would have been mauled.


----------



## Spec0688

Lesnar wasnt in trouble after he turtled, I dont know why I see people saying Carwin got robbed. Lesnar took some big shots early on and had some good defense on the ground, he kept pushing Carwin off at the right moments to make the ref not stop it. 

Brock will be the GSP of the HW division, he will not lose for a long long time. Carwin was his biggest test, and I just dont see Cain or JDS doing anything after tonight.


----------



## Thermopyle

CamTheCaveman said:


> from what ive been hearing (unable to watch) carwin should have won.
> making brock curl up like a turtle? taking shots to where people who i believe are lesnar fans saying it should have been stopped? definitely robbed if thats what happened


I'll give Brock credit, he maybe did just enough to stay alive, but I've seen fights stopped for a lot less.

"Robbed" is maybe an overstatement, even though I believe the fight should have been stopped in the first round. Carwin wasn't robbed since he should have finished (shut Lesnar off) and definitely needs better cardio. This was a five round fight and he was physically done in round two. Can't be done in round two because of some GnP if you want to be a champion.

The Lesnarites who are all, "Lewl, Lesnar made him TAP! LMAO! Lesnar forever!" make me laugh. Good job submitting a guy who was completely gassed because he beat your ******* face in for almost all of the five minutes of the first round.


----------



## evilstevie

UFCFAN18 said:


> Nah he didn't he just kinda had a look on his face like "WTF can I do better then him?"


^ I lol'd.

Cain's not that big is he? I see Lesnar throwing him around like a rag doll.


----------



## Trix

Brock beat Mir who was probably the most technical and well versed submission guy in the HW division.

And, now he was a win over Carwin who was probably one of the best KO guys.

If Brock can't be KO'ed, submitted or out-wrestled, its not easy to formulate a game plan, I'm thinking.


----------



## UFC on VHS

marcthegame said:


> LOL U really think that...if carwin did not gass that easily the champ would have been mauled.


Just because he gassed doesn't mean he is a bad fighter. That's the way he fights that's how he is effective.

Lesnar withstood Carwins biggest strength.


----------



## marcthegame

Spec0688 said:


> Lesnar wasnt in trouble after he turtled, I dont know why I see people saying Carwin got robbed. Lesnar took some big shots early on and had some good defense on the ground, he kept pushing Carwin off at the right moments to make the ref not stop it.
> 
> Brock will be the GSP of the HW division, he will not lose for a long long time. Carwin was his biggest test, and I just dont see Cain or JDS doing anything after tonight.


What u say was Carwin gettin gas from punching him. U do realize when they both were fresh brock could not take him down?


----------



## elessarcif

americanfighter said:


> He may be able to next time though because he knows better and he will go for an arm bar or something after rocking him.


I think Carwin didnt really respect Brock's chin in this fight (which is fair I guess since it hadnt been really tested). Next fight I see Carwin once he is feeling gassed to back off the punches if he finds himself on top again. That or trying to bring it there feet again. I tell ya I have no idea who will win next time they fight lol.


----------



## UKMMAGURU

marcthegame said:


> LOL U really think that...if carwin did not gass that easily the champ would have been mauled.


The only fighter who can get near matching Carwin's punching power is probably JDS, i can't see Cain getting much joy out of a fight with Brock... however this is MMA so you're a douche to rule out anything.


----------



## The Horticulturist

Carwin, while impressive like always showed immaturity as a fighter. 

Lesnar, was gunshy in the first, but listened exactly to what his corner said and did it. He's only getting better and better and better and better as time goes on and he really showed a lot of heart. He's a total freestyle fighter, but he needs to work heavily on his standup so he isn't turning away. He can definitely take the shots though, like I always said and no one would listen.

Ahhhhhhh. it feels good.


----------



## capsal

*carwin got robbed*

What is going on with the ref?? he should have stopped the fight in the first. Carwin got totally robbed in this one. He punched Lesnar head until it swelled up like a watermelon and no stoppage ???
:thumbsdown:


----------



## Toxic

The505Butcher said:


> Well I know I am not going to be as excited about a HW fight until these two meet again... I just do not think Cain can beat Lesnar. Never did. Slight punchers chance.


If Carwin couldn't put Lesnar away I have trouble seeing a much smaller Cain being able to. Velasquez is a beast but he is not a big strong enough guy to really be a threat to Lesnar IMO.


----------



## GriffinFanKY

I agree that it should have been stopped in the first but Carwin blew his load and Lesnar capitalized with the Arm Triangle 2 suprising submissions tonight.Fan of both guys so really didnt care but saw both of them beating Cain


----------



## mohammadmoofty

good fight, in that first round i haven't been so anxious in my life, i thought it was definately going to be over during that ground n pound, like everyone else i'm thinking that literally any other fight would've been stopped during that.


----------



## PinkPanther21

Theproof said:


> I really feel like each fight these guys have could go either way on any given day. Can't wait for a rematch.


The fight warrants a re-match for sure, but a rematch probably won't be all that.

Hopefully Lesnar will watch the tape and see how much he could gain from learning more how to fight from that ground position on his back. You look at other fights just in this PPV and there's lots he can learn there.

On the other hand, I feel like we saw Carwin throw everything he had. I don't expect him to give Lesnar a tougher fight, but Lesnar could learn how to be stronger in other areas to make it easier for him to beat Carwin again.


----------



## Spec0688

Trix said:


> Brock beat Mir who was probably the most technical and well versed submission guy in the HW division.
> 
> And, now he was a win over Carwin who was probably one of the best KO guys.
> 
> If Brock can't be KO'ed, submitted or out-wrestled, its not easy to formulate a game plan, I'm thinking.


This sums it up...

It will be VERY hard to submit Brock now that he has learned from his first sub loss, and I really dont see what Cain or JDS offer that Mir or Carwin didnt. Lesnar is also much bigger then both of them and will be able to get takedowns against them. 

The only way you can really sub Brock is a leg lock, I dont see anyone being able to get a armlock or triangle against his big upper body.


----------



## Thermopyle

elessarcif said:


> I dont see an instant rematch on this one. I think they will want to see it simmer some. The problem is I think there is a large dropoff from Carwin so if you are being fair they should be fighting every other fight against each other no matter who wins if you go purely on who deserves to be the challenger.


I don't see an instant rematch, either. There is a list of guys ahead of Carwin right now: Cain, JDS, probably a Mir vs. Lenar III. Hopefully Mir waits that long.

How is this a large dropoff for Carwin? It only showed that his cardio is questionable. He had Lesnar in way more trouble than anyone in the UFC has so far.

Not to mention, if Lesnar is the greatest HW in the world, well Carwin just dominated him in the first round and lost in the second to a submission from the "greatest HW in the world."


----------



## marcthegame

gazh said:


> The only fighter who can get near matching Carwin's punching power is probably JDS, i can't see Cain getting much joy out of a fight with Brock... however this is MMA so you're a douche to rule out anything.


I'm not sure but i think cain has more Knockout power that Junior, but Junior is more technical might be wrong tho. Cain has KO power and speed question is his size and strength to with stand lesnar take downs. That is where his wrestling comes in.


----------



## LiteGladiator

That was like wtf? What is with this card? Leben, then Brock.


----------



## 420atalon

He did kind of just stand there with a oh crap look on his face. If he can stuff Lesnar's takedowns like Carwin did in the 1st round then he might be able to pick off a decision using his superior gas tank and striking. Very tough fight for him to win though, has to win the decision imo.


----------



## Iuanes

capsal said:


> What is going on with the ref?? he should have stopped the fight in the first. Carwin got totally robbed in this one. He punched Lesnar head until it swelled up like a watermelon and no stoppage ???
> :thumbsdown:


How did Carwin get robbed when he came out in a worse condition than Brock in the second round?

Ask yourself this question: Was Brock intelligently defending himself???

I think the rest of fight proved that he was. He wasn't knocked out, and he rope a doped Carwin. VERY intelligent defense in my opinion.

You Brock hater's are too much.


----------



## elessarcif

Thermopyle said:


> I'll give Brock credit, he maybe did just enough to stay alive, but I've seen fights stopped for a lot less.
> 
> "Robbed" is maybe an overstatement, even though I believe the fight should have been stopped in the first round. Carwin wasn't robbed since he should have finished (shut Lesnar off) and definitely needs better cardio. This was a five round fight and he was physically done in round two. Can't be done in round two because of some GnP if you want to be a champion.
> 
> The Lesnarites who are all, "Lewl, Lesnar made him TAP! LMAO! Lesnar forever!" make me laugh. Good job submitting a guy who was completely gassed because he beat your ******* face in for almost all of the five minutes of the first round.


I havent seen any of that(havent been out of this thread yet though lol). I think most real MMA fans that are also Lesnar fans respect Carwin. Brock still looked very coherant during that fight and was defending. Some of the other fights may have gotten stopped early but if a guy can come back and win it was the right decision to let it keep going.


----------



## marcthegame

420atalon said:


> He did kind of just stand there with a oh crap look on his face. If he can stuff Lesnar's takedowns like Carwin did in the 1st round then he might be able to pick off a decision using his superior gas tank and striking. Very tough fight for him to win though, has to win the decision imo.


lol never its either knock out for him or lesnar kills him.


----------



## PinkPanther21

capsal said:


> What is going on with the ref?? he should have stopped the fight in the first. Carwin got totally robbed in this one. He punched Lesnar head until it swelled up like a watermelon and no stoppage ???
> :thumbsdown:


It was a championship fight. It would have been wrong for the ref to have stopped it without seeing no possibility for Lesnar to have come back - which he did.

It's hard to see Carwin as having been robbed because the ref didn't decide who won the fight without the fight going to an end-point.


----------



## BROCKisGOD

Shane needs Cain Velasquez Cardio system


----------



## Thermopyle

PinkPanther21 said:


> I feel like we saw Carwin throw everything he had. I don't expect him to give Lesnar a tougher fight, but Lesnar could learn how to be stronger in other areas to make it easier for him to beat Carwin again.


Lesnar can learn and become better, but Carwin can't? Come on.


----------



## Stapler

The505Butcher said:


> Well I know I am not going to be as excited about a HW fight until these two meet again... I just do not think Cain can beat Lesnar. Never did. Slight punchers chance.


I agree, and it is very slight. Carwin hits harder than anybody in the division, and Lesnar managed to survive. Barely, but he did it and showed heart. Cain is half their size and doesn't hit nearly as hard as Carwin. If he wants to beat Lesnar, he probably has to do it on points, and that is no easy task.

I'd like to see a rematch between Carwin and Lesnar in the future. Not right away, but after Carwin gets a win or two. I think that Lesnar would still win, but it could really go either way. Carwin with conditioning and Lesnar without the layoff would make for a good rematch.


----------



## UFC on VHS

marcthegame said:


> lol never its either knock out for him or lesnar kills him.


I would like to add that KOs over Gonzaga and Mir is alot more impressive then a KO over Nog. The punching power he displayed in the Rothwell fight would tickle Lesnar.


----------



## The505Butcher

Spec0688 said:


> This sums it up...
> 
> It will be VERY hard to submit Brock now that he has learned from his first sub loss, and I really dont see what Cain or JDS offer that Mir or Carwin didnt. Lesnar is also much bigger then both of them and will be able to get takedowns against them.
> 
> The only way you can really sub Brock is a leg lock, I dont see anyone being able to get a armlock or triangle against his big upper body.


I really do not know how Cain can win that fight. I have now jumped on the Lesnar Bandwagon until he fights Carwin again. In which case... Down with Donkey Kong! :thumb02:


----------



## beaux

props to lesnar, the dude is a stud.


----------



## Toxic

*Brock Lesnar has Chin and Heart, now how do you beat him?*

All right two big ifs around Lesnar were answered tonight, the first one I had was could Lesnar take a punch and Carwin was unable to finish so I think Lesnar's chin is pretty safe to be called solid. The second concern I had was that maybe he was here for a paycheck and when he got down and dirty would he wilt or dig down deep but tonight Lesnar was forced to dig down and he did from a devastating first round. The question is knowing this how do you beat him?


----------



## Pretty Cool Guy

Thermopyle said:


> I'll give Brock credit, he maybe did just enough to stay alive, but I've seen fights stopped for a lot less.
> 
> "Robbed" is maybe an overstatement, even though I believe the fight should have been stopped in the first round. Carwin wasn't robbed since he should have finished (shut Lesnar off) and definitely needs better cardio. This was a five round fight and he was physically done in round two. Can't be done in round two because of some GnP if you want to be a champion.
> 
> The Lesnarites who are all, "Lewl, Lesnar made him TAP! LMAO! Lesnar forever!" make me laugh. Good job submitting a guy who was completely gassed because he beat your ******* face in for almost all of the five minutes of the first round.



When Fedor gets mauled and pulls off a miracle win out of nowhere, everyone goes on and on about the courage and champion poise he showed (deservedly so).

When Brock comes back, tactically puts his opponent down, advances position and submits his opponent, he's chastised for it. It's a double standard that far too many MMA fans are using right now. Hell, take a look over at Sherdog right now and look at all the ridiculous threads. 

Brock just took the complete arsenal of the hardest hitter in MMA and survived. That was one of the most incredible things I've ever seen. The man won the fight and deserves his props.


----------



## Spec0688

There will not be a rematch for a watch, Brock has Cain next and JDS after that depending on if he wins against Big Country.


----------



## BROCKisGOD

Cain will prob hang with Brock for about 3 rounds.


----------



## jdun11

In no way should the fight have been stopped in the first. Brock got hurt and defended. Brock looked very rusty in the 1st, and Carwin made him pay.

2nd round Brock got back to his bread and butter, he took Carwin down with ease and dominated him. It wasnt long before Carwin was tapping.

Brock didnt look like he was at full stregnth. He looked a tad smaller and suffered from the layoff. If Brock just shot in and turned it into a wrestling match early, he wouldnt have taken much damage.

Lesnar vs Cain will be GREAT!


----------



## Thermopyle

Nick_V03 said:


> I agree, and it is very slight. Carwin hits harder than anybody in the division, and Lesnar managed to survive. Barely, but he did it and showed heart. Cain is half their size and doesn't hit nearly as hard as Carwin. If he wants to beat Lesnar, he probably has to do it on points, and that is no easy task.
> 
> I'd like to see a rematch between Carwin and Lesnar in the future. Not right away, but after Carwin gets a win or two. I think that Lesnar would still win, but it could really go either way. Carwin with conditioning and Lesnar without the layoff would make for a good rematch.


I won't pay for another Lesnar UFC ever. One because I think this one was crap and should have been stopped when it wasn't, but that's me personally. Two because I think most of the upcoming opponents for Lesnar are going to be pushed down by Lesnar and laid on or TKOd for a win. Neither of those interest me.


----------



## grimm

BROCKisGOD said:


> Cain will prob hang with Brock for about 3 rounds.


I wouldnt give him that much credit, "brock is god"


----------



## JimmyJames

Carwin gassed. He didnt know how to pace himself for a 5 round fight.


With that said Brock proved a lot tonight.

#1 He has a solid chin, which a lot of the haters said he didnt have because of the Mir knee...... LOL at that. 

#2 He has a lot of heart and can fight through adversity.

#3 He has submissions!!! Surprised me with that one.

#4 And most of all he can be humble in victory. 

Great night for Lesnar. He has made me a fan.

War Brock Lesnar!!!!!


----------



## BROCKisGOD

uhmmmmm u need a Heavyweight version of GSP,u can't knock him out just lay n pray for 5 rounds.


----------



## Mckeever

True, i got mad respect for Lesnar showing heart and the ability to come back, but everything else was the same ol Brock.

Hes still a one dimensional wrestler. His stand up is actually awful and he is always looking to shoot for the take down.

Cain imo is perfectly tailored to beat Brock. Carwin lost tat fight because he gassed. Cain is a cardio machine, he isnt going to be gassing like that im 100 percent sure of. 

Cains stand up and kick boxing is leaps and bounds beyond Brocks. He also has better wrestling that Carwin. He may not be as big, but his skill makes up for his size.

Cain is going to do what Carwin couldnt finish and TKO Lesnar early. Lesnar is clearly not evolving in the striking department and i look to see Cain expose this.


----------



## marcthegame

Toxic said:


> All right two big ifs around Lesnar were answered tonight, the first one I had was could Lesnar take a punch and Carwin was unable to finish so I think Lesnar's chin is pretty safe to be called solid. The second concern I had was that maybe he was here for a paycheck and when he got down and dirty would he wilt or dig down deep but tonight Lesnar was forced to dig down and he did from a devastating first round. The question is knowing this how do you beat him?


 pressure him...jump right out the gates and push him forward. When carwin got him then attacked he backed up covering up. I think if fights push the pace with him standing he will buckle. But it will be hard as he is improving everyday. Also:


----------



## elessarcif

Thermopyle said:


> I don't see an instant rematch, either. There is a list of guys ahead of Carwin right now: Cain, JDS, probably a Mir vs. Lenar III. Hopefully Mir waits that long.
> 
> How is this a large dropoff for Carwin? It only showed that his cardio is questionable. He had Lesnar in way more trouble than anyone in the UFC has so far.
> 
> Not to mention, if Lesnar is the greatest HW in the world, well Carwin just dominated him in the first round and lost in the second to a submission from the "greatest HW in the world."


I am talking about after Carwin. I just dont think any of the fighters beyond those 2 is strong enough to compete against these 2.


----------



## footodors

Cain looked like: "You want me to fight that"


----------



## JiPi

Brock was smiling before the start of round 2 and he didn't have the eyes of someone who got rocked. No way this fight should have been stopped in round 1.


----------



## xRoxaz

I think Cain will get a beating put on him in my opinion he is faster and can land shots on Brock but they wont really affect him, as soon as Cain is dumped on his ass it's gameover for him. 


Junior is now the next best challenger for Brock, it's either him or nobody atm who can beat the champ, JDS can make a ko a reality but like we saw today Brock has to be hit alot more then the average to be put away.


----------



## UFCFAN89

After Carwin dropped Brock, the only real damage he did was with elbows...Brock blocked most of Shane's strikes. Rosenthal did a good job of not stopping it imo...


----------



## BWoods

I liked the way Brock set up the takedown in round 2. He threw a few punch feints early that Carwin bit on hard. Shane's plan was to counter Brock's right hand with his bread and butter 1-2 combo. When Brock baited Carwin into throwing the 1, he just charged straight into the takedown. 

Brock's only getting better too, that's the scariest part.


----------



## JimmyJames

Hope he has an off night or hope he makes another rookie mistake like he did vs Mir.


Notice a lot of it revolves around "hope"


----------



## mathruD

i don't see anyone beating brock until carwin gets a rematch. carwin had him, but gassed.


----------



## Toxic

Thermopyle said:


> I'll give Brock credit, he maybe did just enough to stay alive, but I've seen fights stopped for a lot less.
> 
> "Robbed" is maybe an overstatement, even though I believe the fight should have been stopped in the first round. Carwin wasn't robbed since he should have finished (shut Lesnar off) and definitely needs better cardio. This was a five round fight and he was physically done in round two. Can't be done in round two because of some GnP if you want to be a champion.
> 
> The Lesnarites who are all, "Lewl, Lesnar made him TAP! LMAO! Lesnar forever!" make me laugh. Good job submitting a guy who was completely gassed because he beat your ******* face in for almost all of the five minutes of the first round.


I would like to introduce exhibit A










A win is a win. Lesnar didn't get lucky, it may not have been pretty but his technique, heart and durability won him that fight.


----------



## Hiro

marcthegame said:


> What u say was Carwin gettin gas from punching him. U do realize when they both were fresh brock could not take him down?


It doesn't matter, when they were fresh Carwin failed to finish. Brock took what Carwin had to offer and then Carwin gassed. Having cardio is a part of sports, a part of being an athlete and a fighter, and Carwin couldn't hack it.

Yes Carwin outclassed Brock in the first but it was 1 round. Brock covered up and panicked but he's new to the game and was getting attacked by arguably the heaviest puncher in the sport. But he took it, never looked really hurt and then showed pure skill and power when he exploded off the ground and stood up. Then on top he was far superior.

Brock deserves respect.


----------



## Pretty Cool Guy

I'm not sure how you do. Carwin has the size, wrestling skill and unmatched power in his hands that no one else has. All of his strengths made it a nightmare fight for Brock, who was fighting for the first time in a year and coming off of injury. 

It's hard to say any other HW right now can beat him, but there is always a Matt Serra or a Frankie Edgar out there that can shock the world. 

War Brock! Hoping for a long rule from the current heavyweight king. Huge props to Shane as well. I'll definitely be rooting for him in all his fights from here on out. Awesome guy. :thumbsup:


----------



## Inferno

I think it's going to take a giant kickboxer with devastating leg kicks who can literally chop him down until he can not stand. This person would also have to be huge and have extremely good TD defense. Overeem is the only guy I can think of that comes close.


----------



## Stapler

Pretty Cool Guy said:


> When Fedor gets mauled and pulls off a miracle win out of nowhere, everyone goes on and on about the courage and champion poise he showed (deservedly so).
> 
> When Brock comes back, tactically puts his opponent down, advances position and submits his opponent, he's chastised for it. It's a double standard that far too many MMA fans are using right now. Hell, take a look over at Sherdog right now and look at all the ridiculous threads.
> 
> Brock just took the complete arsenal of the hardest hitter in MMA and survived. That was one of the most incredible things I've ever seen. The man won the fight and deserves his props.


I agree with this post as well, Rashad and Fedor have had trouble with opponents and ending up coming back to win. A lot of people ignore how they struggled and praised them like nothing happened before that, probably the same people who will complain about Lesnar's victory. Double standards will never stop in MMA, just have to live with that i suppose.

Props to both fighters, Lesnar deserved that win and showed a lot of heart and a chin which some people thought he lacked. He silenced some of the doubters tonight in my opinion. At least he should have.


----------



## elessarcif

jdun11 said:


> In no way should the fight have been stopped in the first. Brock got hurt and defended. Brock looked very rusty in the 1st, and Carwin made him pay.
> 
> 2nd round Brock got back to his bread and butter, he took Carwin down with ease and dominated him. It wasnt long before Carwin was tapping.
> 
> Brock didnt look like he was at full stregnth. He looked a tad smaller and suffered from the layoff. If Brock just shot in and turned it into a wrestling match early, he wouldnt have taken much damage.
> 
> Lesnar vs Cain will be GREAT!


I just think that Brock didnt respect Carwin's takedown defense enough.


----------



## chilo

Spec0688 said:


> Lesnar wasnt in trouble after he turtled, I dont know why I see people saying Carwin got robbed. Lesnar took some big shots early on and had some good defense on the ground, he kept pushing Carwin off at the right moments to make the ref not stop it.
> 
> Brock will be the GSP of the HW division, he will not lose for a long long time. Carwin was his biggest test, and I just dont see Cain or JDS doing anything after tonight.


Rofl really? Cain or jds won't have a chance? After tonight, it proved Brock has no stand up, we all seen Cains and jds, not mention cains ground game and card.


----------



## The505Butcher

Spec0688 said:


> There will not be a rematch for a watch, Brock has Cain next and JDS after that depending on if he wins against Big Country.


You really think a win over Roy Nelson gives you a title shot?:confused02:

I think after Cain the UFC will put it on again when Carwin gets another win and shows he has a gas tank.


----------



## BROCKisGOD

xRoxaz said:


> I think Cain will get a beating put on him in my opinion he is faster and can land shots on Brock but they wont really affect him, as soon as Cain is dumped on his ass it's gameover for him.
> 
> 
> Junior is now the next best challenger for Brock, it's either him or nobody atm who can beat the champ, JDS can make a ko a reality but like we saw today Brock has to be hit alot more then the average to be put away.


u think he can take shots to the head like cain did cheick kongo?


----------



## mohammadmoofty

kenny florian - something along the lines of "nooo way this fight's ending in a submission"

:thumb02:

suppose i counted it out completely too.


----------



## PinkPanther21

Thermopyle said:


> Lesnar can learn and become better, but Carwin can't? Come on.


Maybe he'll prove me wrong - I wouldn't mind if he did. We'll see, sooner or later.


----------



## Mckeever

UFCFAN18 said:


> I would like to add that KOs over Gonzaga and Mir is alot more impressive then a KO over Nog. The punching power he displayed in the Rothwell fight would tickle Lesnar.


More impressive than a KO over Nog?! What is this crazy talk? Nog, the man infamous for absorbing the toughest shots and still not getting KO'd? Nog the man who has only once been KO'd in his career when he was clearly no where near 100 percent?

A legit KO victory over big Nog is far more impressive than KO'ing Gonzaga or Mir imo.


----------



## Thermopyle

Pretty Cool Guy said:


> When Fedor gets mauled and pulls off a miracle win out of nowhere, everyone goes on and on about the courage and champion poise he showed (deservedly so).
> 
> When Brock comes back, tactically puts his opponent down, advances position and submits his opponent, he's chastised for it. It's a double standard that far too many MMA fans are using right now. Hell, take a look over at Sherdog right now and look at all the ridiculous threads.
> 
> Brock just took the complete arsenal of the hardest hitter in MMA and survived. That was one of the most incredible things I've ever seen. The man won the fight and deserves his props.


Keep reading my posts. I'm not taking a lot from Brock. I'm surprised he got a submit because I would have figured he would have gone for GnP.

I just think the fight should have been stopped in the first round. I've seen fights stopped for less. That's not a fault of Lesnar, that's a fault of the referee and Carwin.

Lesnar certainly took advantage of the fact that Carwin was gassed and he choked Carwin out.


----------



## Ground'N'Pound5

trade his protein shakes with bear mace, thats the only way to kill him lol


----------



## UFCFAN89

Id love to see JDS beat Nelson then we get *drum roll please.....*

JDS vs Carwin :thumbsup:


----------



## marcthegame

Hiro said:


> It doesn't matter, when they were fresh Carwin failed to finish. Brock took what Carwin had to offer and then Carwin gassed. Having cardio is a part of sports, a part of being an athlete and a fighter, and Carwin couldn't hack it.
> 
> Yes Carwin outclassed Brock in the first but it was 1 round. Brock covered up and panicked but he's new to the game and was getting attacked by arguably the heaviest puncher in the sport. But he took it, never looked really hurt and then showed pure skill and power when he exploded off the ground and stood up. Then on top he was far superior.
> 
> Brock deserves respect.


I respect brock...but Carwin had that in the bag just was foolish to have the cardio of a little girl.


----------



## Ace962

*Why did everyone want the fight stopped?*

I see a bunch of people saying the fight should have been stopped in the first round. Why? Is that what everyone wants to see? Brock was not knocked out. Not even close. And he was blocking most of the punches from Carwin. Was he hurt? Definately, but he recovered quickly. The round ended with a nice sitout escape by Brock and Brock pressing Carwin against the cage. That is indicitive enough that it should not have been stopped. Is that what we're looking for in our fights now? OMG CARWIN HURT HIM, STOP THE FIGHT. Give me a break. No way should a championship fight have been stopped in that situation.


----------



## Thermopyle

BWoods said:


> Brock's only getting better too, that's the scariest part.


I'll agree with that, except changing the last part to, "that's the boring part."


----------



## Hiro

If Cain can avoid the takedown he can beat Brock. Brock's standup is really not too good and Cain can light him up I reckon. Avoiding that gorilla taking him down is one heck of a task though. Going to be huge, Lesnar is for real :confused05:


----------



## Toxic

Mckeever said:


> True, i got mad respect for Lesnar showing heart and the ability to come back, but everything else was the same ol Brock.
> 
> Hes still a one dimensional wrestler. His stand up is actually awful and he is always looking to shoot for the take down.
> 
> Cain imo is perfectly tailored to beat Brock. Carwin lost tat fight because he gassed. Cain is a cardio machine, he isnt going to be gassing like that im 100 percent sure of.
> 
> Cains stand up and kick boxing is leaps and bounds beyond Brocks. He also has better wrestling that Carwin. He may not be as big, but his skill makes up for his size.
> 
> Cain is going to do what Carwin couldnt finish and TKO Lesnar early. Lesnar is clearly not evolving in the striking department and i look to see Cain expose this.



Problem is that Cain does not have the power Carwin has, Cain doesn't have that massive strength and Carwin could not finish Lesnar. Cain may be technical but he is so small in comparison I find it extremely hard to see how he can be a threat. I think he is to small to take Lesnar down and to weak to defend the shot. Lesnar's inability to take Carwin down was not due to poor technique it was due to Lesnar being scared to strike to set up the td. Lesnar will not be as scared to take a coulple of Velasquez's shots.


----------



## elessarcif

Thermopyle said:


> Keep reading my posts. I'm not taking a lot from Brock. I'm surprised he got a submit because I would have figured he would have gone for GnP.
> 
> I just think the fight should have been stopped in the first round. I've seen fights stopped for less. That's not a fault of Lesnar, that's a fault of the referee and Carwin.
> 
> Lesnar certainly took advantage of the fact that Carwin was gassed and he choked Carwin out.


If they got stopped for less maybe they got stopped early. The only reason those types of fights get stopped are for the safety of the fighter. A fight does not get stopped just cause you get punched.


----------



## Sousa

I actually think he was a tad exposed in this fight.IF you can stop his takedown you can beat him standing up. If you noticed as soon as he got hit ONCE he was running for higher ground.I think Cain can beat him at least I hope he can but I think can if he keeps it standing can beat him.JDS has amazing standup and would beat Brock even KO him BUT he has to be able to weather the storm that is of Brocks takedowns

He looked rather "scared" on his back , he didn't seem to know what to do as if he was uneducated there. He got out but that was because Carwin was extremely gassed out


----------



## JiPi

There should be a "Best referee of the night award". Tonight Rosenthal would have won it.


----------



## Guy Incognito

cain can grind out a decision against lesnar and can stuff some takedowns, he beat cole konrad who is lesnars training partner, a more accomplised wrestler than lesnar and about the same size maybe a bit smaller but was 285 pounds while cain was 245 (which he fights at now) when they wrestled.


although i don't think he could keep lesnar down. will be a interesting fight.


----------



## No_Mercy

Damn...Carwin threw wrenches at Brock and he took it and smiled. Brock is one tough son of a b****!!!


----------



## BROCKisGOD

Big ups for Randy Corture telling him he gassed


----------



## Stapler

Thermopyle said:


> I won't pay for another Lesnar UFC ever. One because I think this one was crap and should have been stopped when it wasn't, but that's me personally. Two because I think most of the upcoming opponents for Lesnar are going to be pushed down by Lesnar and laid on or TKOd for a win. Neither of those interest me.


If the fight should have been stopped, Brock wouldn't have come out for round 2. If the fight should have been stopped, Brock wouldn't have been smiling and said "I'm good." If the fight should have been stopped, Brock wouldn't have made Carwin tap. Just saying, if I beat someone up to the point where they should be saved, they wouldn't get up and make me tap moments after. A fight should be stopped when the man is at least technically finished and can no longer defend himself. Brock managed to fight through it and even end the round out of danger. Should have been stopped? I don't think so. It's Carwins fault for making an amateur mistake by spending all of his energy in the FIRST round in a FIVE round fight, especially considering he probably knew his conditioning wasn't the greatest. It is CARWINS fault for thinking he could finish the champion early and not have to worry about the later rounds. If you want to blame someone, blame Carwin for overdoing it in the first round. Maybe Rich Franklin should teach him something about conserving energy like he taught McCray.

Either way, they both did a good job tonight and both deserve props.


----------



## Thermopyle

Toxic said:


> A win is a win. Lesnar didn't get lucky, it may not have been pretty but his technique, heart and durability won him that fight.


Yes. A win is a win. His technique in the second round won him the fight. He got his ass kicked six ways to Tuesday in the first round. If Carwin had better cardio and more sense, we'd be talking about a new champion right now.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

*Lesnar wins, proves nothing....*

Lesnar got his ass kicked in the first round. A division 2 wrestling champ who everyone claimed was going to be dominated in wrestling stopped every take down in the first round. Lesnar had slightly better cardio than Carwin, and THAT WAS IT. That is solely the reason why he won. The only thing he proved in that fight is that he IS beatable, unlike what all the Lesnar nughuggers on this site claim.

Good luck trying to out condition Velasquez. Good luck trying to out-wrestle him too... considering a division 2 wrestler just about owned you in the wrestling department. I'm happy with that Brock victory. It showed a lot.


----------



## Sousa

Shut up dude seriously. If he beat everyone on the face of the planet you still wouldn't give him props. Just stop talking about Brock, you're giving off odd vibes


----------



## JimmyJames

Haters gonna hate. 

And you are a hater.

I dont even need to read your post.


----------



## UKMMAGURU

Ace962 said:


> I see a bunch of people saying the fight should have been stopped in the first round. Why? Is that what everyone wants to see? Brock was not knocked out. Not even close. And he was blocking most of the punches from Carwin. Was he hurt? Definately, but he recovered quickly. The round ended with a nice sitout escape by Brock and Brock pressing Carwin against the cage. That is indicitive enough that it should not have been stopped. Is that what we're looking for in our fights now? OMG CARWIN HURT HIM, STOP THE FIGHT. Give me a break. *No way should a championship fight have been stopped in that situation.*


I agree with your post, but i don't agree that Championship fights should be treated any different.


----------



## The505Butcher

Mckeever said:


> More impressive than a KO over Nog?! What is this crazy talk? Nog, the man infamous for absorbing the toughest shots and still not getting KO'd? Nog the man who has only once been KO'd in his career when he was clearly no where near 100 percent?
> 
> A legit KO victory over big Nog is far more impressive than KO'ing Gonzaga or Mir imo.


Yeah prime nog. Not the Nog that we have been seeing lately. I have not been impressed with his stand up and he just has taken too many shots. Not only that but Cain is the same size as Nog. Imagine him trying to get in the reach of Lesnar and also having to worry about getting taken down all the time. The reason Nog said he had a hard time with Cain was the Leg kicks thrown by Cain. If Cain throws those kicks at Lesnar Lesnar will grab them abd pull the takedown. Or punch Cain's face.


----------



## marcthegame

PheelGoodInc said:


> Lesnar got his ass kicked in the first round. A division 2 wrestling champ who everyone claimed was going to dominate him in wrestling stopped every takedown in the first round. Lesnar had slightly better cardio than Carwin, and THAT WAS IT. That is solely the reason why he won. The only thing he proved in that fight is that he IS beatable, unlike what all the Lesnar nughuggers on this site claim.
> 
> Good like trying to out condition Velasquez. Good like trying to outwrestle him too... considering a division 2 wrestling just about owned you in the wrestling department. I'm happy with that Brock victory. It showed a lot.


All lesnar showed was he could take an ass whipping. Respect to him but Carwin lost that fight himself. Lesnar got dominated Standing up and his takedowns were ineffective. Don't count the second round Carwin was done. If Carwin had cardio like brock it would be a different story guess that is what he has to improve now.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

JimmyJames said:


> Haters gonna hate.
> 
> And you are a hater.
> 
> I dont even need to read your post.


But you just did.... Ouch.


----------



## Sousa

Also why aren't you complaining about Rich Franklin getting his ass kicked by glass jaw Liddell? Oh right..


----------



## PheelGoodInc

marcthegame said:


> All lesnar showed was he could take an ass whipping. Respect to him but Carwin lost that fight himself. Lesnar got dominated Standing up and his takedowns were ineffective. Don't count the second round Carwin was done. If Carwin had cardio like brock it would be a different story guess that is what he has to improve now.


Carwin lost that fight. Not Lesnar beating him. Carwin beat himself.


----------



## Thermopyle

Nick_V03 said:


> If the fight should have been stopped, Brock wouldn't have come out for round 2. If the fight should have been stopped, Brock wouldn't have been smiling and said "I'm good." If the fight should have been stopped, Brock wouldn't have made Carwin tap. Just saying, if I beat someone up to the point where they should be saved, they wouldn't get up and make me tap moments after. A fight should be stopped when the man is at least technically finished and can no longer defend himself. Brock managed to fight through it and even end the round out of danger. Should have been stopped? I don't think so. It's Carwins fault for making an amateur mistake by spending all of his energy in the FIRST round in a FIVE round fight, especially considering he probably knew his conditioning wasn't the greatest. It is CARWINS fault for thinking he could finish the champion early and not have to worry about the later rounds. If you want to blame someone, blame Carwin for overdoing it in the first round. Maybe Rich Franklin should teach him something about conserving energy like he taught McCray.
> 
> Either way, they both did a good job tonight and both deserve props.


Maybe you didn't read this post by me:



> "Robbed" is maybe an overstatement, even though I believe the fight should have been stopped in the first round. Carwin wasn't robbed since he should have finished (shut Lesnar off) and definitely needs better cardio. This was a five round fight and he was physically done in round two. Can't be done in round two because of some GnP if you want to be a champion.


----------



## Toxic

Thermopyle said:


> Yes. A win is a win. His technique in the second round won him the fight. He got his ass kicked six ways to Tuesday in the first round. If Carwin had better cardio and more sense, we'd be talking about a new champion right now.


Why are you so convinced it was Carwin was gassed? Carwin defended one TD and rocked Lesnar hard, Lesnar weathered the storm and recovered. He came out and got the TD. Its not like it was even a minute into the second. Carwin had time to catch his breath between rounds. Your giving Carwin way to much credit and not enough to Lesnar.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

Sousa said:


> Also why aren't you complaining about Rich Franklin getting his ass kicked by glass jaw Liddell? Oh right..


Ad Hominem. Thats all I would expect from a Lesnar fan.


----------



## Machida Karate

Yeah that didn't show anything about how big of a beating he can take and still come back as strong as ever and kick his ass... Fail post... But its ok, i enjoy these Brock kicking peoples ass Talks


----------



## Redrum

I disagree. I think that this win clealy solidifies him as a legitimate, proven, tested champion. I think at this point, Lesnar deserves more respect than you are giving him.


----------



## blang

lets see what this proves. befor this fight brock had never been hit. now we know he can take a punch and damn near can't be knocked out. we knew he was probably the best wrestler in mma. and now we know he knows some submissions. so that proves that there is no one out there that can handle him. but i would like to see a rematch


----------



## Stapler

Thermopyle said:


> Maybe you didn't read this post by me:


Probably not.. Posts are getting sent too fast, it's hard to keep up with everything said, haha.


----------



## EbonGear

That didn't look like Carwin choking himself on the mat.


----------



## Mckeever

I couldnt agree more. i do have a new found respect for Brock showing true heart and the ability to come back like that. But like you said the only reason he won that fight was because of cardio. Its the harsh reality of the fight. People on this site already claiming Brock is unbeatable i just face palm worthy, it really is.


----------



## punchbag

PheelGoodInc said:


> Lesnar got his ass kicked in the first round. A division 2 wrestling champ who everyone claimed was going to be dominated in wrestling stopped every take down in the first round. Lesnar had slightly better cardio than Carwin, and THAT WAS IT. That is solely the reason why he won. The only thing he proved in that fight is that he IS beatable, unlike what all the Lesnar nughuggers on this site claim.
> 
> Good luck trying to out condition Velasquez. Good luck trying to out-wrestle him too... considering a division 2 wrestler just about owned you in the wrestling department. I'm happy with that Brock victory. It showed a lot.


I think BROCK did well to absorb the first round punishment, and showed an improved sub game, Carwin was unlucky as he did seem to gas, and maybe aided his downfall.
Overall and I may get some crap for saying this, if it wasn't for their size both guys would not be anywhere near where they are in the HEAVYWEIGHT division, as their technical striking and ground games are not that great at all, but they use what limited skills they have well.
Congrats to Brock, sad that Carwin never won though had some cash on him, goood fight.


----------



## AmdM

marcthegame said:


> pressure him...jump right out the gates and push him forward. When carwin got him then attacked he backed up covering up. I think if fights push the pace with him standing he will buckle. But it will be hard as he is improving everyday. Also:


Please mighty spirits of the skies and earth, give us Brock vs Fedor. :thumb02:


----------



## Machida Karate

If you seriously think Cain will last 5 rounds with that monster makes it that much more sweeter


----------



## The Horticulturist

who said he wasn't beatable?

this fight was 50/50 going in to it in my mind

you have a complex.

EDIT: Also, to say he was OWNED in wrestling is pretty harsh, considering whatever Carwin was able to stuff just gassed him out even more. I love how Kevin Randleman can come in, drop Fedor on his head, and when Fedor comes back and subs a tired Randleman he is a God. But when Brock comes back after a huge beating in the first round and owns Carwin completely, he is to be insulted. 

Brock is also the much less experienced fighter, we saw the difference early in the fight. But Brock finished the fight as soon as Carwin punched himself out, not such a rookie I guess.


----------



## michelangelo

I'm *1000% addicted* to the UFC. 

Completely amazing. 

WTF. 

Holy Sh#t!!!!


----------



## Sousa

PheelGoodInc said:


> Ad Hominem. Thats all I would expect from a Lesnar fan.


AHAHAAHHAHAAH I'm a Lesnar fan?AHAHAH wait wait ahahah oh my...ahaahah oh wow i'm a Lesnar fan?That hit hard

btw I wanted Carwin to win that fight so before you start making threads about my being a Lesnar fan get a clue. Don't start accusing people of crap you know nothing about

and btw I was right and you know it. It didn't prove anything for Rich Franklin for beating Liddell when he was getting his ass handed to him all round. Though for some reason you"forgot" to put that in your sig


----------



## marcthegame

Cut the OP some slack...this is not a big now or fedor legendary come back. But we all can agree carwin was gone after the secound. Like brock said his shots were fading and fading. The way i saw it brock covered it up well in this fight...if he had not it would have been lights out.


----------



## andy_olinyk

amoosenamedhank said:


> VAwrestler said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure why you think this... everyone who has commented on the fight saying they believe Lesnar will win has also stated that Carwin has the knock out power. I really don't think anyone is going to be surprised if either fighter wins.
> 
> Infact the only thing surprising that could come from this fight is if it ended in a submission...
> 
> 
> 
> shane won the fight brock tried to take shane down couldnt but shane fell backward brock tried ground and pounding didnt really work too extraordinary so as a last resort and an act of desperation pulled a submission out of his butthole and got the win. (thats how i brake the fight down)
Click to expand...


----------



## Pretty Cool Guy

Brock won tonight, and he took every punch that the hardest hitter in MMA threw, smiled between rounds, said "I'm good", walked to the center of the ring and proceeded to submit him. 

Let me guess, you were knocking Fedor when he beat AA, who was dominating the fight until he decided to leave his feet. 
This is a rant fueled by Brock hate and nothing else. War Lesnar.


----------



## Mckeever

Toxic said:


> Why are you so convinced it was Carwin was gassed? Carwin defended one TD and rocked Lesnar hard, Lesnar weathered the storm and recovered. He came out and got the TD. Its not like it was even a minute into the second. Carwin had time to catch his breath between rounds. Your giving Carwin way to much credit and not enough to Lesnar.


Carwin was quite clearly completely gassed by round 2. Did you not see the heavy breathing, the body language and the expreission written all over his face? He was fucked.


----------



## Calminian

:confused02: I can think of a few things it proves. He has a better chin than Mir and GG and most HW's. He has ring rust. His sub game has improved 10 fold. His cardio is top notch for a dude just short of 300 pounds. His standup needs serious work. 

Cain is better at standup than Carwin, but smaller and not as strong. Can he keep keep it on the feet against Lesnar?


----------



## Thermopyle

Toxic said:


> Why are you so convinced it was Carwin was gassed? Carwin defended one TD and rocked Lesnar hard, Lesnar weathered the storm and recovered. He came out and got the TD. Its not like it was even a minute into the second. Carwin had time to catch his breath between rounds. Your giving Carwin way to much credit and not enough to Lesnar.


Well, if it wasn't obvious from what you saw, then I don't know what to tell you. That isn't really giving Carwin credit, either, Lesnarite. Gassed in the second round of a five round championship fight? Maybe he expected to finish Lesnar early.

It's the UFC, though. You should have enough cardio to last for three rounds.


----------



## marcthegame

Pretty Cool Guy said:


> Brock won tonight, and he took every punch that the hardest hitter in MMA threw, smiled between rounds, said "I'm good", walked to the center of the ring and proceeded to submit him.
> 
> Let me guess, you were knocking Fedor when he beat AA, who was dominating the fight until he decided to leave his feet. We're you discrediting Duffy when he pulled off his win at 115?
> 
> This is a rant fueled by Brock hate and nothing else. War Lesnar.


LOl Wrong...hardest hitter in MMA is James TOney.


----------



## Thermopyle

Nick_V03 said:


> Probably not.. Posts are getting sent too fast, it's hard to keep up with everything said, haha.


No problem. I figured that.


----------



## Abrissbirne

marcthegame said:


> LOl Wrong...hardest hitter in MMA is James TOney.


So you took a punch of every MMA fighter to verify your claims?


----------



## JonCR96Z

PheelGoodInc said:


> The only thing he proved in that fight is that he IS beatable.


And WHO is gonna do that? 

This fight proved that Lesnar has a good chin. There goes Cain's only chance.


----------



## elessarcif

I didnt realize that Cardio is not part of being an MMA fighter that if you had strong striking and takedown defense it was impossible to lose. That a fight is decided in the first round. I have learned a few things today.


----------



## Mckeever

Calminian said:


> :confused02: I can think of a few things it proves. He has a better chin than Mir and GG and most HW's. He has ring rust. His sub game has improved 10 fold. His cardio is top notch for a dude just short of 300 pounds. His standup needs serious work.
> 
> Cain is better at standup than Carwin, but smaller and not as strong. Can he keep keep it on the feet against Lesnar?


Yes. He is a cardio machine and has better wrestling than Carwin.

Im not convinced by Brock suddenly having a great sub game. Carwin was completely gassed no matter what you may say, honestly it looked just effortless for Brock to sub him. Im convinced a light weight fighter could of subbed carwin in the state he was in.

Cain doesnt gas how ever.


----------



## blang

Overall and I may get some crap for saying this, if it wasn't for their size both guys would not be anywhere near where they are in the HEAVYWEIGHT division, as their technical striking and ground games are not that great at all, but they use what limited skills they have well.

do you really think that a 2 time division 1 national champ and a 2 time division 2 all american qualify as no ground game. lol


----------



## andy_olinyk

deleted


----------



## No_Mercy

Guess Brock is right...he does have a head of a ball point hammer! Wtf...

I am now truly convinced that the one to take him out is one with true KO ability and that's Mirko Crocop. That is the only weapon to stop "The Hulk." It's prolly 10-1 odds against Mirko, but fawk it!!!


----------



## Calminian

Mckeever said:


> Yes. He is a cardio machine and has better wrestling than Carwin.
> 
> Im not convinced by Brock suddenly having a great sub game. Carwin was completely gassed no matter what you may say, honestly it looked just effortless for Brock to sub him. Im convinced a light weight fighter could of subbed carwin in the state he was in.
> 
> Cain doesnt gas how ever.


Carwin is a champion wrestler. he knows how to fight tired. mounting and subbing him is quite a feat.


----------



## deadmanshand

andy_olinyk said:


> amoosenamedhank said:
> 
> 
> 
> shane won the fight brock tried to take shane down couldnt but shane fell backward brock tried ground and pounding didnt really work too extraordinary so as a last resort and an act of desperation pulled a submission out of his butthole and got the win. (thats how i brake the fight down)
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...umm fail. Brock weathered a storm from the hardest hitter in mma. Period. Survived by intelligently defending himself from off his back. Got back up late in the round and began grinding Carwin against the cage using his bodyweight to strip him off some more cardio.
> 
> In the second Lesnar baited a gassed Carwin to committing to his 1-2 combo and took him down quite easily. Where he then advanced position, dropping some GNP along the way, before going for the submission that he very obviously intended to go after.
> 
> The second round was far more methodical than what you are saying.
Click to expand...


----------



## SooprmanX

Abrissbirne said:


> So you took a punch of every MMA fighter to verify your claims?


Calm down guy, he's being sarcastic.

And to the OP, I'm as big a Brock disliker (hater is too strong a word) than anyone but I have to give it to him tonight. His standup is really bad but he absorbed the hits and weathered the storm till he could take advantage of Shane's inferior cardio in the second round. And to those saying "If Carwin had cardio" or "If Carwin did this...." The fact of the matter is he didn't. Unfortunately for me and many others, Brock showed that he is a legitimate fighter and is a serious athlete. I am amazed at how much gas he lookedto have coming into the second round. He is a beast and I don't see anyone else giving him a run for his money like tonight. As much as it pains me, it looks like he'll be wearing that belt for a long time.


----------



## Calminian

SooprmanX said:


> Calm down guy, he's being sarcastic.
> 
> And to the OP, I'm as big a Brock disliker (hater is too strong a word) than anyone but I have to give it to him tonight. His standup is really bad but he absorbed the hits and weathered the storm till he could take advantage of Shane's inferior cardio in the second round. And to those saying "If Carwin had cardio" or "If Carwin did this...." The fact of the matter is he didn't. Unfortunately for me and many others, Brock showed that he is a legitimate fighter and is a serious athlete. I am amazed at how much gas he lookedto have coming into the second round. He is a beast and I don't see anyone else giving him a run for his money like tonight. As much as it pains me, it looks like he'll be wearing that belt for a long time.


I don't know that the jury's out that Shane has no cardio. You don't wrestle in college without cardio. I think Brock totally overpowered him. Carwin was holding him off and seemed fine until the hold was tightened up.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

This is what Brock thinks of his fans FYI.










He went from "Laying on top of his wife" to "Thank God". Give me a ******* break. had he fought a better conitioned athlete he would have been shit out of luck. He's not invincible, and he's not the champ everyone makes him out to be. I was very happy with that fight FYI. Brocks time wil be shorter than I thought.


----------



## footodors

Unfortunately, Carwin's gettingup there in years. 
I bet he was surprised as we were when he couldn't put Brock away in round 1.


----------



## Crester

PheelGoodInc said:


> This is what Brock thinks of his fans FYI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He went from "Laying on top of his wife" to "Thank God". Give me a ******* break. had he fought a better conitioned athlete he would have been shit out of luck. He's not invincible, and he's not the champ everyone makes him out to be. I was very happy with that fight FYI. Brocks time wil be shorter than I thought.



Focking hell... all you do is walk around bad-mouthing Brock. The guy nearly died... I think that would change a lot of people's mentality.


----------



## Mckeever

Calminian said:


> Carwin is a champion wrestler. he knows how to fight tired. mounting and subbing him is quite a feat.


Huh? A champion wrestler? Cain is a division higher than Carwin in terms of wrestling, hes quite clearly the better wrestler.

He also clearly does not know how to fight tired. His cardio was actually appalling in the Lesnar fight.


----------



## michelangelo

Shane threw enough firepower at Brock to knock out ten guys, and he didn't get the job done. 

If Brock can survive Shane's hands, he can survive Cain's. 

Plus, Brock's been out of the octagon for a LONG time. 



Mckeever said:


> Yes. He is a cardio machine and has better wrestling than Carwin.
> 
> Im not convinced by Brock suddenly having a great sub game. Carwin was completely gassed no matter what you may say, honestly it looked just effortless for Brock to sub him. Im convinced a light weight fighter could of subbed carwin in the state he was in.
> 
> Cain doesnt gas how ever.


----------



## Ocelot

I think brock showed his mortality in this fight, but i take nothing away from the win. Also, is it just me or does anyone else think Overeem would have beaten both of them?


----------



## ash

PheelGoodInc said:


> This is what Brock thinks of his fans FYI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He went from "Laying on top of his wife" to "Thank God". Give me a ******* break. had he fought a better conitioned athlete he would have been shit out of luck. He's not invincible, and he's not the champ everyone makes him out to be. I was very happy with that fight FYI. Brocks time wil be shorter than I thought.



Dude, you are completely, 100% "THAT GUY." Just want to throw that out there!


----------



## SooprmanX

Calminian said:


> I don't know that the jury's out that Shane has no cardio. You don't wrestle in college without cardio. I think Brock totally overpowered him. Carwin was holding him off and seemed fine until the hold was tightened up.


Shane is 35 years old. College was a long time ago homie. He may have cardio in the gym but it's a completely different thing in competition. We've seen it in a million other fights, sometimes a fighter rocks the other fighter and the adrenaline dump while trying to finish them just does them in. That may or may not be what happened this time. But there's no doubt that Carwin was out of gas going into that second round.



PheelGoodInc said:


> This is what Brock thinks of his fans FYI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He went from "Laying on top of his wife" to "Thank God". Give me a ******* break. had he fought a better conitioned athlete he would have been shit out of luck. He's not invincible, and he's not the champ everyone makes him out to be. I was very happy with that fight FYI. Brocks time wil be shorter than I thought.


Hypothetical situations at this point mean nothing. The fight happened and we saw what the outcome was. You can't say "had he fought a better athlete" or anything else you can conjure up anymore. Carwin was the biggest guy and the biggest test they've been able to put in front of him thus far. He showed that he can handle the situation and was able to come out successful. Again, I am not a Brock fan, I wish above everything else he lost tonight. But fact of the matter is that you have to give the guy props, he's a serious fighter and a serious athlete.


----------



## footodors

Brock won't lose or even get tested for years.


----------



## cdtcpl

I remember quite a few people saying if you get rocked by Carwin then he wins, no one gets back up. To those people, you just got proven wrong, big time! I will be honest and say that I thought the ref was going to stop it, but Brock did just enough to keep the fight going. A lot of credit to him to sub Carwin instead of GnP'ing him for 4 min or so to win.

WAR LESNAR!


----------



## Thermopyle

Crester said:


> Focking hell... all you do is walk around bad-mouthing Brock. The guy nearly died... I think that would change a lot of people's mentality.


Didn't humble Brock. Why should it humble anyone else?


----------



## cdtcpl

Ocelot said:


> I think brock showed his mortality in this fight, but i take nothing away from the win. Also, is it just me or does anyone else think Overeem would have beaten both of them?


I think Overeem would lose to both of them.


----------



## UrbanBounca

I only have one thing to say to everyone that didn't believe Brock has what it takes, "Told 'ya so!"


----------



## BrutalKO

*WOW....How did Brock survive to win???...Amazing!!!*

...WOW! Lesnar's win proved EVERYTHING! I was routing for Shane. Most of- if not all of us thought is was gonna be over when Brock got dropped, was busted up-bleeding and covered up. I am stunned. Absolutely stunned. Lesnar took the best that Shane had to offer and survived. Nobody has ever done that. Point blank- no disputing that pure fact!! Nobody else in the HW division hits harder than Carwin. It was so close to being stopped. Ref. Josh Rosenthal did a great job letting Brock continue. Bottom line- Shane gased- Brock capitalized. I have a new found respect for Lesnar. His post-speech was proper and he was humbled. After his sickness and coming back threw that kind of an adversity assbeating, it makes you wonder if anybody can beat him. I have only one question to ask? How in the heck is Cain gonna beat able to beat that? Brock by triangle submission? What a trip!!! 
_
* Nice KO slam for Harris (I bet Rampage had a smile).
* Good win for Bonnar. That Muay Thai knee was nasty!!
* Lytle shows his experience with those great transitions winning with the armbar.
* Cool submission win for Leben. Dang- looks like Akiyama has a chin too! Leben calling out Wanderlei. That will be one to watch for
* Finally hats off to Brock for surviving near death outside of the cage and inside of the cage. There is nothing you can take away from Brock tonight, he survived the biggest power the UFC had to offer. What a heart!!_


----------



## deadmanshand

PheelGoodInc said:


> This is what Brock thinks of his fans FYI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He went from "Laying on top of his wife" to "Thank God". Give me a ******* break. had he fought a better conitioned athlete he would have been shit out of luck. He's not invincible, and he's not the champ everyone makes him out to be. I was very happy with that fight FYI. Brocks time wil be shorter than I thought.


Actually you thought his time would be over tonight against Carwin. You said so multiple times and yet he is still the champion. Funny how that works. What we saw tonight was a man facing someone who was far more respectful than Mir ever thought of being and showing him - and the fans who didn't boo him in victory - respect.

You have a serious hate on for Brock. It's unhealthy. And generally retarded. Not liking a fighter is one thing. Utterly disregarding everything the man does because you dislike him is utterly retarded. 

You, sir, are a troll. Congratulations.


----------



## UrbanBounca

For the record, CC420, pay up, sucka! :thumb02:


----------



## michelangelo

You guys should watch the post fight presser. Brock's won the crowd over completely. He's finally showing some vulnerability and he's been embraced by the media wholeheartedly.


----------



## Fedorbator

Three things about this fight:

1) A majority of refs would have stopped that fight for Carwin in the first round. 2 mins of unanswered strikes and curling up to fetal several times is not intelligibly defending. Rosenthal fail.

2) Carwin should have paced himself. Carwin fail.

3) Brock gained a little respect in my extremely skeptical book and him eventually mastering an arm triangle is a scary thought. But in reality, Carwin could not have defended against the choke more incorrectly. Jackson fail.

Awesome card!


----------



## Calminian

Mckeever said:


> Huh? A champion wrestler? Cain is a division higher than Carwin in terms of wrestling, hes quite clearly the better wrestler.


It doesn't quite work like that. If you are a Div. 2 champion, you can beat most Div. 1 fighters.


----------



## IPure

I hate Brock. There I said it. I was extremely disappointed with outcome of this fight and registered here just to vent  Many of you are saying we have to respect him for whatever reason. Sorry, I don't have to respect s*** because someone tells me to. He can fight, so what. He gets no respect from me. If the guy walks around acting like a complete douche in every imaginable capacity, why should I suddenly respect him when he pulls a win out his ass? Whatever.
Carwin easily deserves my respect, even more so with this loss. He'll be back.


----------



## Heat02

lol at people making excuses. You guys mad at Brock because he left college over ten years ago, was in the WWE, and was out of action for a year, and came in tonight and destroyed those "you have to be skilled in teh ufc and have a black belt in bjj to be a great fighter" concepts.


----------



## cdtcpl

I like how people keep talking about how disrespectful Lesnar is. For those people still under that impression go back and look at the hype for Lesnar vs Couture, almost no smack talk at all. Why, you might ask? Because Couture showed Lesnar respect and respect as a fighter. The only time Lesnar opens his mouth and talks trash is when someone else instigates it. Mir talked tons of shit, yet Lesnar is the dick. Herring stated that this wasn't the WWE and he would show Lesnar what fights are really like. Carwin double talked like a bitch the whole time. "He doesn't have the skill" "I think he is a great fighter". 

The reality is, show Lesnar respect and you will get the same. You talk shit, don't expect him to stand there with his dick in his hand, he is going to respond.


----------



## Belinda2972

*Disappointed by Brock Lesner fight!*

I am so bummed about the Brock Lesner vs. Shane Carwin fight. I was so pumped all week about it - ready to see Brock get the ass beating of his life. All through the first round, I was on my feet - so excited at how the fight was going. It was awesome watching Brock get the beating he needs, because his giant ego is so irritating. He thinks he's unbeatable, but he just hasn't fought the right man yet. I was really hoping that Shane would be that man, and actually could have been if he hadn't gotten that choke - he got lucky and that's all there is to it. My family thinks I've lost my mind, because I was screaming at the tv, lol. The only thing that gives me any satisfaction is that Brocks face was a swollen mess after Shane caught him with a good punch, and continued his ground and pound until Brock was saved by the bell. I'll have to rewatch it, but there were a couple of times when I felt the ref should've stopped the fight. What's done is done, and I'll get over it, but I am anxiously waiting to see if Brocks next opponent will be the one that will destroy him. Until then, good luck to his friends and family, because getting his big head through a doorway will be a real challange! 

Belinda Nichols


----------



## Ground'N'Pound5

well welcome to the forum


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5

Wow what an amazing fight. Some things i learned from the main event:

-Lesnar proved he has an incredible heart and chin after taking all those heavy punches

-Lesnar is a lot better than i thought and has proven that he has grown a lot as a fighter

-Lesnar has been humbled in a good way, and is a good champion for the UFC and sport of MMA in general

-Carwin is getting old unfortunately and i dont think he will ever be a UFC champion or even necessarily get another title shot again

Having said that, i still think Junior Dos Santos and Alistair Overeem could beat Brock. JDS has very good standup and Brock has shown repeatedly a lack of overall skill and technique in the standup department. JDS could definitely rock Lesnar and pound him out similar to Carwin, except he'll pace himself better and not gas out.
Overeem is a very well rounded MMA fighter who is way more experienced than all of these guys, and he is quite possibly bigger and stronger than Brock himself.

I think Cain is going to lose because he really is just outclassed athletically, he's too small, and he relies on wrestling tactics to win fights which obviously isnt going to work against someone like Brock whose strength is power wrestling.

Fedor could still beat Brock IMO, but he would probably have to be an underdog at this point (damn, i never thought id write that sentence in my life).


----------



## footodors

Still strange seeing Brock run away from someone.


----------



## cdtcpl

You clearly saw the fight from a bias point of view, and that is fine. But Lesnar didn't get saved by the bell. By the end of the round he was fully recovered. I will agree that I thought the ref was going to stop the fight, but anytime the ref told Lesnar to do something or he would stop it, Lesnar did something. And he quite easily pushed Carwin off a few times as well which makes me believe that he knew Carwin was gassing from the punches.

Lesnar's ego isn't really that big, he just plays it up to help sell PPV's.


----------



## Calminian

cdtcpl said:


> I like how people keep talking about how disrespectful Lesnar is. For those people still under that impression go back and look at the hype for Lesnar vs Couture, almost no smack talk at all. Why, you might ask? Because Couture showed Lesnar respect and respect as a fighter. The only time Lesnar opens his mouth and talks trash is when someone else instigates it. Mir talked tons of shit, yet Lesnar is the dick. Herring stated that this wasn't the WWE and he would show Lesnar what fights are really like. Carwin double talked like a bitch the whole time. "He doesn't have the skill" "I think he is a great fighter".
> 
> The reality is, show Lesnar respect and you will get the same. You talk shit, don't expect him to stand there with his dick in his hand, he is going to respond.


Truth, repped. I think this is why I'm becoming a Lesnar fan. It's not that I think he's great, nor a good guy, just amazed at how much he's hated.


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5

Heat02 said:


> lol at people making excuses. You guys mad at Brock because he left college over ten years ago, was in the WWE, and was out of action for a year, and came in tonight and destroyed those "you have to be skilled in teh ufc and have a black belt in bjj to be a great fighter" concepts.


You do have to be skilled and knowledgable in BJJ to be a great fighter. Brock proved this when he got submitted by Mir, and since then he has learned BJJ and become a more skilled fighter overall.


----------



## cdtcpl

footodors said:


> Still strange seeing Brock run away from someone.


I agree fully! It was extremely odd and you could even hear his corner tell him to stop running. But with the way Carwin loads up his punches I bet those first few ones hurt like hell.


----------



## deadmanshand

Brock was not saved by the bell! Did you even watch the damn fight? The last minute he was grinding Carwin against the cage. He did not get a lucky choke. He took his opponent down, passed his guard, and locked in a choke.

How many times has Nog done this very thing? Or Fedor? Taken a beating and then subbed their opponents? They're are called greats for doing it while Lesnar is called lucky.

Luck does not help you take Carwin's kind of punches. Luck does not help you be damn near fresh in the second round.

Lucky my ass.

Edit: That's a lot of posts between mine and the one I was replying too.


----------



## Guy Incognito

EDIT:double post


----------



## michelangelo

Brock passed his biggest test, literally, and just barely. When you take into account his year-long layoff, yes, this had to have played a role. 

We don't get to see a prime Brock Lesnar for another 4 months or so when he faces Cain. 

An immensely entertaining fight.

I'm really surprised at all the hate being flung Carwin's way. He was a wrecking machine in the first round. His cardio was exposed for sure, so it's back to the drawing board.


----------



## Calminian

deadmanshand said:


> How many times has Nog done this very thing? Or Fedor? Taken a beating and then subbed their opponents? They're are called greats for doing it while Lesnar is called lucky.


Funny how that works, huh? And Carwin is arguably the biggest bomb thrower in MMA.


----------



## Belinda2972

Well...... Surprise!


----------



## AmdM

Ocelot said:


> I think brock showed his mortality in this fight, but i take nothing away from the win. Also, is it just me or does anyone else think Overeem would have beaten both of them?


After tonight´s show i can see Overeem raping both of then...

Brock standup is comedy, he looks and acts so stumbled. Overeem would just humiliate him.

Carwin on the other hand has a great cardio... for playing checkers, so after round one you just do what you want with him. 



Terrible night for both of then as they were both exposed!


----------



## Neolistic

*Carwin did what worked for him in 12 fights*

So you can't say he made a mistake by going all out, and defeated himself. The truth is Carwin did what worked for him before but it failed on Lesnar. Simple as that, there is no excuses for the loss Carwin had to Lesnar. haters should roll back where they came from, and give Lesnar the respect he deserves.

Lesnar is the only man in 12 fights to take everything Carwin had and survive, end of discussion.

I was amazed, simply awe struck, and loved every minute of it.


----------



## Guy Incognito

Belinda2972 said:


> I am so bummed about the Brock Lesner vs. Shane Carwin fight. I was so pumped all week about it - ready to see Brock get the ass beating of his life. All through the first round, I was on my feet - so excited at how the fight was going. It was awesome watching Brock get the beating he needs, because his giant ego is so irritating. He thinks he's unbeatable, but he just hasn't fought the right man yet. I was really hoping that Shane would be that man, and actually could have been if he hadn't gotten that choke - he got lucky and that's all there is to it. My family thinks I've lost my mind, because I was screaming at the tv, lol. The only thing that gives me any satisfaction is that Brocks face was a swollen mess after Shane caught him with a good punch, and continued his ground and pound until Brock was saved by the bell. I'll have to rewatch it, but there were a couple of times when I felt the ref should've stopped the fight. What's done is done, and I'll get over it, but I am anxiously waiting to see if Brocks next opponent will be the one that will destroy him. Until then, good luck to his friends and family, because getting his big head through a doorway will be a real challange!
> 
> Belinda Nichols


are you a hot chick?


----------



## UrbanBounca

Why wasn't this posted in the Carwin v. Lesnar post fight thread?


----------



## elessarcif

Neolistic said:


> So you can't say he made a mistake by going all out, and defeated himself. The truth is Carwin did what worked for him before but it failed on Lesnar. Simple as that, there is no excuses for the loss Carwin had to Lesnar. haters should roll back where they came from, and give Lesnar the respect he deserves.
> 
> Lesnar is the only man in 12 fights to take everything Carwin had and survive, end of discussion.
> 
> I was amazed, simply awe struck, and loved every minute of it.


I really dont think Carwin respected Brock's chin at all before this fight though. He didnt even have the stamina for a 3 round fight. It is almost like he planned for it to be done in the first round so why waste your time on cardio.


----------



## Neolistic

People who get irritated by someone who deserves to have an ego should look in the mirror, and try and be more selfless before they talk about egos.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

That fight was seconds away from lesnar being stopped. Carwin beat hmiself, Brock doesn't deserve that win. Like I said. HIGHLY over rated.

How does a professional athlete gass in the 1ST round of 5??????

Brocks time will be shorter than I thought. Thank God. Brock Lesnar vs Velsaquez.... Lesnar RIP. Your time is done.


----------



## deadmanshand

AmdM said:


> After tonight show i can see Overeem raping both of then...


lol... Overeem would have died in there tonight. Against either of them. He's never beaten anything close to a top tier heavyweight. He barely beat Buentello and Cro Cop. Lesnar or Carwin would eat him. Carwin would put him to sleep. Lesnar would casually take him down and gnp him or throw a random submission out there. I don't know what he's going to do next at this point.

PheelGood: You keep saying that. You said it before tonight too. All you are doing right now is an impression of a rabid dog. Foaming at the mouth and barking. It's sad. It's stupid. And, once again, you are a troll.


----------



## UrbanBounca

Belinda2972 said:


> I am so bummed about the Brock Lesner vs. Shane Carwin fight. I was so pumped all week about it - ready to see Brock get the ass beating of his life. All through the first round, I was on my feet - so excited at how the fight was going. It was awesome watching Brock get the beating he needs, because his giant ego is so irritating. He thinks he's unbeatable, but he just hasn't fought the right man yet. I was really hoping that Shane would be that man, and actually could have been if he hadn't gotten that choke - he got lucky and that's all there is to it. My family thinks I've lost my mind, because I was screaming at the tv, lol. The only thing that gives me any satisfaction is that Brocks face was a swollen mess after Shane caught him with a good punch, and continued his ground and pound until Brock was saved by the bell. I'll have to rewatch it, but there were a couple of times when I felt the ref should've stopped the fight. What's done is done, and I'll get over it, but I am anxiously waiting to see if Brocks next opponent will be the one that will destroy him. Until then, good luck to his friends and family, because getting his big head through a doorway will be a real challange!
> 
> Belinda Nichols


That's what everyone said about Lesnar fighting Carwin, and Lesnar walked out the champion. How was it luck, exactly? Carwin gassed, and Lesnar capitalized on it. That's MMA, welcome.


----------



## blang

really. if Brock took all of those bombs from carwin what in the hell does jds have to offer that is differant, beside being 30 lbs lighter


----------



## michelangelo

Brock was moving, covering up and defending himself from punches, throwing occasional kicks and punches from the bottom, and worked to grab Shane's wrists and neck. 

Without a doubt, he got beat up in that first round, and it's likely a fight so one sided would've been stopped had it not been a championship fight, but it WAS a championship fight: a fighter has to be stretched (Quinton vs. Liddell), or very close to it (Brock vs. Couture). But as long as one guy is still moving, a ref will not intervene in a championship contest. See GSP Penn II for reference. 



Fedorbator said:


> Three things about this fight:
> 
> 1) A majority of refs would have stopped that fight for Carwin in the first round. 2 mins of unanswered strikes and curling up to fetal several times is not intelligibly defending. Rosenthal fail.
> 
> 2) Carwin should have paced himself. Carwin fail.
> 
> 3) Brock gained a little respect in my extremely skeptical book and him eventually mastering an arm triangle is a scary thought. But in reality, Carwin could not have defended against the choke more incorrectly. Jackson fail.
> 
> Awesome card!


----------



## UrbanBounca

PheelGoodInc said:


> That fight was seconds away from lesnar being stopped. Carwin beat hmiself, Brock doesn't deserve that win. Like I said. HIGHLY over rated.
> 
> How does a professional athlete gass in the 1ST round of 5??????
> 
> Brocks time will be shorter than I thought. Thank God. Brock Lesnar vs Velsaquez.... Lesnar RIP. Your time is done.


You are the epitome of 'sore loser'.


----------



## blang

AmdM said:


> After tonight show i can see Overeem raping both of then...


 i remember when overeem was 205 and got KO'ed by chuck liddel


----------



## Indestructibl3

I was awestruck when I saw Lesnar hit the canvas, and I don't blame Carwin for going all out for the finish. I just expected his recovery to be a little better between rounds ...


----------



## amoosenamedhank

I thought all you Lesnar hating dbags were going to man up and admit lesnar was the real deal if he won. But instead excuses excuses excuses. Just shut up and accept it.


----------



## JimmyJames

He went all out but that simply wasnt enough.

Brock Lesnar has a chin of titanium.


----------



## michelangelo

....and subtract a few gloves sizes from Shane's 5XL hamhocks and about 3" in reach as well, in addition to knocking off 30 lb. of raw muscle. 

As far as Brock's next opponent, Cain did a great job in finishing Nogueira, but Nogueira is almost always on the short end of the stick when he tries to box. 



blang said:


> really. if Brock took all of those bombs from carwin what in the hell does jds have to offer that is differant, beside being 30 lbs lighter


----------



## Indestructibl3

blang said:


> i remember when overeem was 205 and got KO'ed by chuck liddel


Thankyou sir.

lmfao @ Overeem beating ANY UFC HW (or LHW) contender.


----------



## NinjaComputers

I cant believe what I am reading, are you all serious? are you guy's like 10 years old? did someone just steal your butterfinger?

It was cardio, It was luck , it should have been called, WINE WINE WINE WINE, Listen up you tards cause I am only gonna say this once, do the math over half of the fights won that do not go to the cards are in almost all aspects could be considered a Lucky move/hit or controversial win. This my small minded friends is fighting, and "WHAT IF'S" and "HE GOT LUCKY" don't put belts around champions waste's, it just makes haters sound stupid. Fact is That Lesnar took a beating that I have never seen before and not once went lights out nor was unable to cover up, and then proceeded to get up and lock Carwin up. 
Does Lesnar have a lot to still learn, YES.....Should Lesnar have won that fight, AHHH YEAH CAUSE HE DID!!!!! grow up and stop hating on a man that won point blank.


P.S, Your respect doesn't pay Lesnar's bills, so who gives two sh!t's if you respect him or not.


----------



## AmdM

UrbanBounca said:


> Why wasn't this posted in the Carwin v. Lesnar post fight thread?


yeah, lets all start a new thread each time we have something to say about it!


----------



## JimmyJames

Relax guy mods will most likely merge it.


----------



## Neolistic

JimmyJames said:


> He went all out but that simply wasnt enough.
> 
> Brock Lesnar has a chin of titanium.


Just like Joe Rogan said in an interview, "brock is a product of generations of Vikings screwing Vikings", and it definitely shows.


----------



## Woodenhead

Didn't have much of a chin IMO - went down pretty quick & kept his ham-sized hands in front of his head after that. I'm not impressed at all.

Looking forward to his next fight tho - looks like he's actually learning some subs - no more donkey kong = I may start liking him even more.


----------



## AmdM

blang said:


> i remember when overeem was 205 and got KO'ed by chuck liddel


Well i went to get my old vhs player to check on that fight and i guess you have a point there...


----------



## footodors

Stupid Carwin. Totally outclassed Brock for 3 minutes and then poops out. What's with all that running up stadium steps they showed in the previews. Probably quit running after the cameras stopped.


----------



## michelangelo

Brock got bounced around like a pinball in almost comical fashion in the first round. It was like watching a drunk stumble onto the street at 2:15 AM on a payday friday night. 

You can't blame Shane for trying to finish the fight right then and there. What was he going to do? Was he just going to stand there and wait for Brock to recover? OF COURSE he's going to try to finish. 

Having said that, if you watch the fight again, Shane was gassed a minute and a half into the first round. 

I was telling my friends that Brock was going to *"rope a dope"* his way into the second. Y'all know what happened then...


----------



## Guy Incognito

Indestructibl3 said:


> Thankyou sir.
> 
> lmfao @ Overeem beating ANY UFC HW (or LHW) contender.


your a complete dumbass if you think that and shows you don't know shit about MMA.


----------



## coldcall420

Look I hate LesNAR...and Cain is not going to come close to beating him....PERIOD!!!!


----------



## kay_o_ken

really entertaining fight, im a big fan of both fighters so it was cool to see one fighter best the other then the other take the win like that, makes for an awesome round two as well

i think had carwin paced himself a bit differently the fight would have completely changed, i also think that brock has a solid ass chin and is goin to be a difficult task for anyone to finish


----------



## Guy Incognito

deadmanshand said:


> lol... Overeem would have died in there tonight. Against either of them. He's never beaten anything close to a top tier heavyweight. He barely beat Buentello and Cro Cop. Lesnar or Carwin would eat him. Carwin would put him to sleep. Lesnar would casually take him down and gnp him or throw a random submission out there. I don't know what he's going to do next at this point.
> 
> PheelGood: You keep saying that. You said it before tonight too. All you are doing right now is an impression of a rabid dog. Foaming at the mouth and barking. It's sad. It's stupid. And, once again, you are a troll.


Ubereem would KO carwin with ease and he mauled cro cop and buentello, he put more of a beating on cro cop than JDS did


----------



## UrbanBounca

I'm tell you one thing, I'm lovin' all the Lesnar love now. Yesterday, it was a completely different story.

Cap'n, I think we're going to need a bigger bandwagon.


----------



## Fedorbator

guy incognito said:


> your a complete dumbass if you think that and shows you don't know shit about MMA.
> 
> Ubereem would KO carwin with ease and he mauled cro cop and buentello, he put more of a beating on cro cop than JDS did


Troll,

Go mastUBERbate somewhere else. 

Overeem was beat by every elite LHW and became SF HW Champ by beating a bunch of HW cans. The one that thinks Over-rated-reem will walk through LHW, much less HW, is the one that 'doesn't know shit about MMA.'


----------



## rickgellison

Never seen Brock dominated like that before. SHOCKING! Anyway, Brock showed he can take a beating (he hasnt taken one before and there was doubts) and also showed he has submissions in his arsenal.

His stand up definately needs work, but come on, the dude has been out of action for over a year (?), there was always gunna be ringrust.

The fact remains we will see a Brock/Carwin 2. Brock will probably be a tad embarrassed/angry he got dominated and wanna set the record straight. 

Brilliant heart Brock. And to think people were saying the guy was a joke and ONLY here for the money 2 years ago.


----------



## deadmanshand

guy incognito said:


> Ubereem would KO carwin with ease and he mauled cro cop and buentello, he put more of a beating on cro cop than JDS did


He nut shotted Cro Cop until he couldn't continue but - yeah - that's somehow better than beating him in a kickboxing match till you make him quit. Kongo put a harsher beatdown on Buentello than Overreem did but no one is saying he would beat Brock or Carwin. The same Kongo who beat Cro Cop too I might add. Hmm... maybe Overreem's abilities might be comparable to Kongo's. Similar fighters with two opponent's in common in a relatively short span of time. Something to think about.

You may have bought into Overreem's new found hype - from beating Rogers of all people - but the rest of us with basic analytical and reasoning abilities have not.


----------



## luckbox

Yep.. the Lesnar era continues baby! I'm lovin it.


----------



## Life B Ez

Ladies and Gentleman welcome to the cock on the chest era.......

As much as I don't want to say it, Brock isn't getting beat anytime soon. Carwin is by far the hardest hitting HW and Brock took it and came back to finish the fight. So now he's smothered the best ground game at HW, beaten the most powerful striker at HW. Who's left? Cain, not enough power to finish Brock standing and isn't big enough to turn it into a wrestling match. JDS, will get taken down and GnPed out. And Lesnar is only getting better.....

Can't stand the guy, but I will give him is credit, he's for real and he's here to stay.


----------



## UrbanBounca

Life B Ez said:


> Ladies and Gentleman welcome to the cock on the chest era.......
> 
> As much as I don't want to say it, Brock isn't getting beat anytime soon. Carwin is by far the hardest hitting HW and Brock took it and came back to finish the fight. So now he's smothered the best ground game at HW, beaten the most powerful striker at HW. Who's left? Cain, not enough power to finish Brock standing and isn't big enough to turn it into a wrestling match. JDS, will get taken down and GnPed out. And Lesnar is only getting better.....
> 
> Can't stand the guy, but I will give him is credit, he's for real and he's here to stay.


The only person I see beating Lesnar is Big Nog, and time is running out for him fast. Big Nog can take a beating, and still manages to pull submissions out of his ass for the win.


----------



## VolcomX311

Beyond pumped... though I may have aged 10 years due to the happenings in the first round.


----------



## Life B Ez

UrbanBounca said:


> The only person I see beating Lesnar is Big Nog, and time is running out for him fast. Big Nog can take a beating, and still manages to pull submissions out of his ass for the win.


Not anymore, he can't take a punch anymore, Cain put him out and Brock hits a hell of a lot harder. Not to mention Nog is never going to sniff the title again...


----------



## UrbanBounca

Life B Ez said:


> Not anymore, he can't take a punch anymore, Cain put him out and Brock hits a hell of a lot harder. Not to mention Nog is never going to sniff the title again...


Well, call me crazy, but I have that feeling that Big Nog could take him out. I'm not a Big Nog fan at all, but it's just a feeling. :thumb02:


----------



## LiteGladiator

Leben is now a totally legit fighter again! He is more well rounded than I had thought, he threw on many submission attempts with a seasoned veteran like Sexyama. I also have more respect for Brock, becuase of how well he handled Shane and he pulled off a submission that I did no see coming. He is a dangerous heavyweight, and no trash talking after the fight. He impressed me a lot!


----------



## towwffc

It's funny how so many people are impressed with Brock just because he didn't say anything controversial. I am too. It's like being proud of a child for not acting up when you bring him out in public. lol


----------



## The Amarok

*Not that impressed by Lesnar*

I was expecting this fight to go ALOT more differently, and for the 1st round, I was right on the money. But when I saw Carwin gassing, he was screwed. I respect Lesnar for his awesome comeback, but not to jazzed about his performance. This is one thing and one thing only I learned from this fight.
LESNAR HAS NO STAND-UP
It was pretty clear that if Carwin had more stamina, Lesnar would have been done. 
And if ANY person says that Lesnar was dominating, then THAT is a nuthugger. 
Also two more things I learned,
1. Cain is gonna light up Lesnar
2. Fedor can beat Lesnar easy
Here is why:
1. Cain has shown that he has KO power, A-Class Boxing and a unbelieveable gas tank. If he has S-Class TDD, Lesnar's in HUGE Trouble.
2. Fedor is gonna be a MONSTER now that he dont have to worry about his record anymore. S-Class Stand-Up, Awesome stamina, knows how to pace himself and is more well-rounded than Lesnar. Only thing he needs to do is not let Lesnar take him down. Lesnar is good at blocking BJJ. 
Basically, here is the formula to beat Lesnar,
S-Class Striking
S-Class Takedown Defense
High Cardio
And thats it. So far Cain and Fedor are the only ones that posess 2/3 of these skills (to the best of my knowledge)
PS: If there is any other Heavyweight that possibly posses these skills, please let me know.


----------



## blang

Leben is now a totally legit fighter again! He is more well rounded than I had thought, he threw on many submission attempts with a seasoned veteran like Sexyama. I also have more respect for Brock, becuase of how well he handled Shane and he pulled off a submission that I did no see coming. He is a dangerous heavyweight, and no trash talking after the fight. He impressed me a lot!

leben is still a middle of the road fighter. he fought a jap fighter, not one of the best jap fighters, but it was an awsome fight


----------



## UrbanBounca

Blah, blah, blah...

Lesnar beat Carwin, gassed or not, Lesnar won, 'nuff excusus. We won't see Fedor v. Lesnar, stop talking about it. Everyone said Carwin would beat Lesnar, didn't happen. Now, the hype train moves to Cain, who will drop to Lesnar, also.

Jesus, they come out in flocks.


----------



## UrbanBounca

blang said:


> leben is still a middle of the road fighter. he fought a jap fighter, not one of the best jap fighters, but it was an awsome fight


Akiyama has beaten LeBanner, Manhoef, and Kang. For Leben, Akiyama is definately a good win.


----------



## Life B Ez

UrbanBounca said:


> Well, call me crazy, but I have that feeling that Big Nog could take him out. I'm not a Big Nog fan at all, but it's just a feeling. :thumb02:


A couple years ago I'd have been right there with you, but Nog is on the downside now, taken too many shots. Not to mention how slow he has looked lately.


----------



## BD3

If Carwin had more cardio, he might sacrifice power. And Yes, if Carwin had more cardio, he could've pulled of the win. Then again, if Brock had better standup, he would've knocked Shane Carwin the f out standing.

Also, if Carwin had laser vision, he would've set Brock ablaze from across the arena. 

If I had super man powers, I'd be p4p champ, no doubt! 

If this, if that, if if if if if


Point is, he didn't get the job done. Carwin's gas tank isn't Brock's problem. He looked good in the first(some of it at least) but he didn't seal the deal and shouldn't have gone so crazy gassing himself out. Especially since Brock was defending and not taking nearly as much damage as it might've looked like(he stated this himself. And you'll see it if you rewatch the fight. I have.) Brock sealed the deal. 

No excuses.


----------



## Rusty

I am a Lesnar fan! Great win!!!


----------



## towwffc

You shouldn't try to use this type of logic to explain how to beat Brock. It's easy to say good striking, cardio, and takedown defense will beat Lesnar. Well guess what,using that logic the same method should beat GSP but it doesn't mean it will happen just like that. It's not simply THAT easy. Also each fight goes on a case by case basis. There are too many variables involved to use that logic. Hey! In order for Carwin to win all he has to do is catch him on the chin because he hits so hard...oh wait...


----------



## The Amarok

Hey I call it as I see it. Lesnar showed that he has Major Holes in his game. Im not saying he didnt win the fight, Im saying he has yet to work on his Boxing. Its called an opinon, deal with it.


----------



## creepjacker

We wanna talk excuses? Brock had a hell of a lot more excuses as to why he should have lost that fight.......but he didnt.
He showed a RIDICULOUS amount of heart, proved that he is in fact tough as nails, and that he is developing a submission game. Brock the wrestler + BJJ sub subs = NASTY.

If anything, Shane looks as if he might be the one dimensional fighter, where as Brock looks as if he is improving his game.


----------



## jopach

I am more of a boxing fan than MMA fan, but I do keep up with MMA. My opinion on this fight is Carwin threw an uppercut from too far away and his arm was too extended for the punch to have much power in it. Thats says a lot about Lesnar, because for Lesner to be really hurt from a punch like that is pathetic. My guess is Lesnar does not know how to deal with actually getting punched in the face. That was his reaction. His reaction was like a common guy getting in a fight and when hit lowers his back and head and tries to grab from a distance, which is basically a panic mode. When Lesner could not deal with the punch he backed up and pretty much what he did by backing up against the cage and going down curled up was a sign of some one quitting. If a fighter did that in boxing he would be laughed out of the sport as a quitter, not to mention the ref would stop the fight. 
because that is an act of quitting.

My point is the way Lesnar reacted to getting hit with such a sh*tty punch was the reaction of someone who wanted to quit. He panicked, you can see it in his actions and he immediately went to the cage and went down on his own and curled up pretty quick. That is the part where I think the ref could of stopped it, becasue Lesnar's reaction was of a guy who did not want anymore. All that happened after that moment is debatable what the ref could of done..


----------



## dario03

The Amarok said:


> Basically, here is the formula to beat Lesnar,
> S-Class Striking
> S-Class Takedown Defense
> High Cardio
> And thats it. So far Cain and Fedor are the only ones that posess 2/3 of these skills (to the best of my knowledge)
> PS: If there is any other Heavyweight that possibly posses these skills, please let me know.


Thats a lot easier said then done. You even said to your knowledge only 2 guys have 2/3 things though I would say there is more with 2/3. Carwin has 2/3 of those things and it didn't work. Carwin also has something that neither of those guys do, and thats size. I don't see Fedor stopping a TD from Brock since Brock is far larger and more powerful. Cain could possibly use his wrestling to stop Brock but he isn't all that big either. Though out of those 2 I think I would give Fedor the better chance since he might do a sub or crazy looping hook out of no where.


----------



## coldcall420

I'm a Carwin fan and part of being an MMA all around fighter is cardio....disgrace that Carwin gassed also excellent octagon control by Lensar and excellent finish...PERIOD


----------



## towwffc

jopach said:


> I am more of a boxing fan than MMA fan, but I do keep up with MMA. My opinion on this fight is Carwin threw an uppercut from too far away and his arm was too extended for the punch to have much power in it. Thats says a lot about Lesnar, because for Lesner to be really hurt from a punch like that is pathetic. My guess is Lesnar does not know how to deal with actually getting punched in the face. That was his reaction. His reaction was like a common guy getting in a fight and when hit lowers his back and head and tries to grab from a distance, which is basically a panic mode. When Lesner could not deal with the punch he backed up and pretty much what he did by backing up against the cage and going down curled up was a sign of some one quitting. If a fighter did that in boxing he would be laughed out of the sport as a quitter, not to mention the ref would stop the fight.
> because that is an act of quitting.
> 
> My point is the way Lesnar reacted to getting hit with such a sh*tty punch was the reaction of someone who wanted to quit. He panicked, you can see it in his actions and he immediately went to the cage and went down on his own and curled up pretty quick. That is the part where I think the ref could of stopped it, becasue Lesnar's reaction was of a guy who did not want anymore. All that happened after that moment is debatable what the ref could of done..


Wow guy, that S*itty punch was thrown by 265lb. Shane Carwin when he was still fresh. The reaction Brock gave might very well be the only thing that stopped him from being finished in that moment. I get your opinion but you shouldn't sound so sure when you're not the one who was hit by the punch.


----------



## andyn1986

*nails*

somebody else said it "tough as nails". I'm not a fan of either fighter, but Brock took a beating and than won this match, we'll remember this fight for a long time


----------



## JimmyJames

jopach said:


> I am more of a boxing fan than MMA fan, but I do keep up with MMA. My opinion on this fight is Carwin threw an uppercut from too far away and his arm was too extended for the punch to have much power in it. Thats says a lot about Lesnar, because for Lesner to be really hurt from a punch like that is pathetic. My guess is Lesnar does not know how to deal with actually getting punched in the face. That was his reaction. His reaction was like a common guy getting in a fight and when hit lowers his back and head and tries to grab from a distance, which is basically a panic mode. When Lesner could not deal with the punch he backed up and pretty much what he did by backing up against the cage and going down curled up was a sign of some one quitting. If a fighter did that in boxing he would be laughed out of the sport as a quitter, not to mention the ref would stop the fight.
> because that is an act of quitting.
> 
> My point is the way Lesnar reacted to getting hit with such a sh*tty punch was the reaction of someone who wanted to quit. He panicked, you can see it in his actions and he immediately went to the cage and went down on his own and curled up pretty quick. That is the part where I think the ref could of stopped it, becasue Lesnar's reaction was of a guy who did not want anymore. All that happened after that moment is debatable what the ref could of done..


Wow are you wrong about this. 

Carwin is probably the hardest puncher in MMA and with those small gloves to say the punch wasnt hard and didnt hurt is just ridiculous.


----------



## The Diesel

I think its bullshit that as soon as Joe asked him what happened in the first round, Brock stuck his mouthpiece in Joes shirt pocket. No ******* class.


----------



## UrbanBounca

It's amazing that Brock was on the brink of *death*, comes back to beat someone, who everyone thought would KO his ass and arguably has the hardest punches in the sport, not to mention, the number one contender, and he still can't get respect. He didn't talk trash after the fight. He won it, _fair and square_, period.


----------



## JimmyJames

This fight for me was a longer version of McFedries vs Kampmann. 

It ended with the same submission as well.


----------



## BD3

Also, people are forgetting that he GOT UP before the bell. He pushed Carwin up against the fence to recover a bit and was going for the takedown. He wasn't saved at all! 

So how hurt was he really? 

Great reffing tonight. Brock communicated to the ref. that he was still in the fight. Carwin by no means got robbed in any way. To end the match would've have been a travesty. 

You don't stop a fight if a fighter is in a very vulnerable position. You stop a fight when a fighter CANNOT defend himself. Brock sure as hell was!


----------



## deadmanshand

The Diesel said:


> I think its bullshit that as soon as Joe asked him what happened in the first round, Brock stuck his mouthpiece in Joes shirt pocket. No ******* class.


Are you ******* kidding me? Seriously? That's what you have to add to this discussion?

"OMG! Did you see what he just did?! He took his mouthpiece out and put it in the pocket of the guy who got between him and his corner man who was coming to take it! WTF?! That completely invalidates all of the classy things he said post fight as well as the fight itself!"

Thank you, Captain Manners, for pointing out our terrible flaw so that we can continue hating Lesnar and not get caught up in this impressive comeback victory or improved attitude business. Down with Lesnar! He has unsanitary habits with his oral protection!


----------



## Danm2501

Brock Lesnar is legit. I've been calling a Lesnar win all week and I'm delighted he came through and picked up the win. He showed tremendous heart and chin to survive that first round. Carwin landed a heavy shot and was laying down some massive blows on the ground, but Brock played smart, covered up and let Carwin gas himself out. You could tell at the end of that first round that Carwin was gassed and the ease of Brock's takedown in the 2nd proved it. Hopefully now Brock will get some respect. He's 5-1 and already has wins over Frank Mir, Randy Couture, Heath Herring and Shane Carwin, no-one in MMA history could have put together a record as good as that in such a short space of time. Roll on Lesnar vs Velasquez!


----------



## LiteGladiator

UrbanBounca said:


> It's amazing that Brock was on the brink of *death*, comes back to beat someone, who everyone thought would KO his ass and arguably has the hardest punches in the sport, not to mention, the number one contender, and he still can't get respect. He didn't talk trash after the fight. He won it, _fair and square_, period.


Thank you! Someone who realizes it, it was no fluke. He put his balls in the wheelbarrow and pulled off a victory.


----------



## Vale_Tudo

Not impressed by either ones performance!
Cain will absolutely destroy Lesnar.


----------



## deadmanshand

LiteGladiator said:


> Thank you! Someone who realizes it, it was no fluke. He put his balls in the wheelbarrow and pulled off a victory.


That is an interesting and highly unpleasant mental image. Though a man his size might need a wheelbarrow just to haul them around...

*shudders*


----------



## The Amarok

I not taking anything away from Lesnar winning. HE HAS HUGE HOLES in his techinques that can be exposed is all Im saying. If you cant take an opinon then dont bother repling. Brock is tied with Coture and Sylvia in the HW title defense lets see if he can break the record.


----------



## towwffc

Yeah he definitely needs to work on his striking. With his size, wrestling, and athletic ability he can be one of the scariest ground fighters of all time. But i'm not so sure what the ceiling is as far as his potential in the stand up. At best he might be an average striker, but honestly that may be enough to continue his dominance once he gets there.


----------



## jopach

JimmyJames said:


> Wow are you wrong about this.
> 
> Carwin is probably the hardest puncher in MMA and with those small gloves to say the punch wasnt hard and didnt hurt is just ridiculous.


Yeah he is probably one of the hardest punchers, but if the punch is not thrown correctly or with any leverage, its not gonna be that powerful. And the way Carwin threw that uppercut, he had no real leverage on it, His arm being too far extended took off all the power in it. It just barely reached him and all the steam was already off it. If Lesner woudl of been in close and the uppercut was nice,tight, and short and if Carwin put his waist and legs into the uppercut then Lesner would of been Ko'd, Thats the way you use the uppercut. You never throw an uppercut from far away, it leaves you too open.


----------



## towwffc

> Yeah he is probably one of the hardest punchers, but if the punch is not thrown correctly or with any leverage, its not gonna be that powerful.





jopach said:


> You never throw an uppercut from far away, it leaves you too open.


Tell that to the dozens of fighters who get into a wild sloppy brawl and end up ko'ing there opponent with a wild no technique having arm punch. It actually happens pretty regularly. lol


----------



## jopach

That says mmore about the quality of the fighters than anything.


----------



## jopach

When Brock is on top his best weapon is not any real technique, its his weight and strength, thats what opps have problems with. Plus if you notice he did this with Mir, and again tonight he puts left arm under the opp. neck and then pounds with his right. The opp has no way of protecting his face and just has to eat right hands. I do not see how Carwin actually let Brock get him in that position. If Carwin watched tape that is something that should of been pointed out to him, and he should of been prepared for it and not let himself get into such a vulnerable position. By the way to be gassed out by the end of the 1st rd. is not the sign of a real fighter. I recall Butterbean (a huge joke) would get gassed out after 4 and thats why he never fought passed 4 rds or fought a real fighter. I just think that a true pro should never be gassed out after 1 rd.These MMA fighters need to learn how to take small breaks during the rds. and save there strength and pace themselves better.


----------



## towwffc

jopach said:


> That says mmore about the quality of the fighters than anything.


Yeah, but it also says that even if a punch isn't thrown correctly it may still genereate enought force to lay you out. Especially if it lands in the right spot.


----------



## Dream-On-101

Well i am a very happy man this morning! Very entertaining fight, but i would be lieing if i said that Brock via Sub was high on my list of potential possibilities. 

A few points:

- Hopefully now Brock will get some respect. He has beaten the guy who was supposedly his number one threat. Was he dominant? Not entirely, in fact the first round could have conceivably been a 10-8 round to Shane. But was Fedor entirely dominant when he beat Randleman, or Rogers, or Fujita? No. Coming through adversity is the sign of a true champion and Brock proved he can do that.

- He HAS got a good chin, for anyone who doubted it. Most people would have been out after a couple of those Carwin bombs, and Brock sure as hell was rocked but recovered and actually did quite well off his back. 

- Brock showed submission skills, proving he is an ever-evolving fighter. However, his standup still looks very rudimentary. He needs to do some hard work in that area.

- He looked a tad slower and smaller than i thought he would, but this is altogether understandable considering his lay-off and possible ring rust. I am guessing his next fight he will be even more impressive. 


Props to Carwin, he nearly put him away. But at least now we know what happens when Carwin gets out the 1st round - he gasses tremendously. BUT he stuffed Brocks wrestling in the 1st round very well, which is a very promising sign for him in future fights or a potential rematch down the line. 

Like it or not, Brock is here to stay. And i cant see what Cain or JDS would be able to do to him.


----------



## jopach

Yeah, in cases like that, you know the saying, its the punch you don't see that hurts you.


----------



## jopach

I have to say this Lasner's reaction was not one that was truly hurt, it was a reaction as if he does not know how to deal with actually getting hit in the face. He reacted like someone shocked and in panic. He leaned forward, tried to grab, all this gwhile running backward,then when he ran out of space and hit the cage he immediately went down in a curled up position. To me, thats a sign of a guy who does not want anymore. But the ref let it go on, and what happened after that is debatable. 

Brock's reaction was a reaction of a normal guy getting in a street fight and not knowing what to do when hit so panic sets in. He finally cleared his head because Carwin was wasting punches and while Brock was on his back he got himself together.

Plus his stand-up game is pretty bad. From what I saw he is not a unbeatable fighter, he is very beatable, he has lots of weaknesses that can be exploited.


----------



## The Diesel

deadmanshand said:


> Are you ******* kidding me? Seriously? That's what you have to add to this discussion?
> 
> "OMG! Did you see what he just did?! He took his mouthpiece out and put it in the pocket of the guy who got between him and his corner man who was coming to take it! WTF?! That completely invalidates all of the classy things he said post fight as well as the fight itself!"
> 
> Thank you, Captain Manners, for pointing out our terrible flaw so that we can continue hating Lesnar and not get caught up in this impressive comeback victory or improved attitude business. Down with Lesnar! He has unsanitary habits with his oral protection!


No he didnt. He handed his mouthpiece to his corner guy and then took something else out of his mouth and held it in his hand. Then Joe asked him about the first round and as soon as he said the world "trouble", Brock stuck it in his shirt pocket. Brock looked as if he was waiting for him to say it so he could do that. Joe asked him what was going through his mind while he was getting beat up, he ignored it and delivered his well thought out speech. Then he walks a little "im the shit" WWE sytle circle, points to the crowd so they cheer at him, and then comes back to Joe which is when he asked him the same question in a different way to get him to answer it. Brock said he could feel the shots getting softer and he said he let him do it. 

As far at the fight itself, he was defending himself. Was it in an intelligent manner? Dont think so but he was all there and knew what was going on. He looked more like a ***** than anything. The 2nd round take down and choke was nice though. 
Im not really a Lesnar fan but it is what it is.


----------



## The Diesel

Heres the fight. 

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhEU5hf9IjU6QbKz99


----------



## Dream-On-101

jopach said:


> I have to say this Lasner's reaction was not one that was truly hurt, it was a reaction as if he does not know how to deal with actually getting hit in the face. He reacted like someone shocked and in panic. He leaned forward, tried to grab, all this gwhile running backward,then when he ran out of space and hit the cage he immediately went down in a curled up position. To me, thats a sign of a guy who does not want anymore. But the ref let it go on, and what happened after that is debatable.
> 
> Brock's reaction was a reaction of a normal guy getting in a street fight and not knowing what to do when hit so panic sets in. He finally cleared his head because Carwin was wasting punches and while Brock was on his back he got himself together.
> 
> Plus his stand-up game is pretty bad. From what I saw he is not a unbeatable fighter, he is very beatable, he has lots of weaknesses that can be exploited.




I agree with most of this. His standup is definately a weakness and needs improvement. It doesnt have to be remarkable, for example JDS wouldnt be able to stop a TD like Carwin was, but someone like Cain might be able to and his standup is superior to both Lesnar and Carwin. 

What people need to remember is that this was Brocks 6th fight. EVER. He has only been training for around 3 years, (not including 6 months out for a debilitating illness).

There is plenty of time to improve. We see something new from Lesnar everytime he fights, and he is effectively still a baby in MMA.


----------



## Life B Ez

jopach said:


> Yeah he is probably one of the hardest punchers, but if the punch is not thrown correctly or with any leverage, its not gonna be that powerful. And the way Carwin threw that uppercut, he had no real leverage on it, His arm being too far extended took off all the power in it. It just barely reached him and all the steam was already off it. If Lesner woudl of been in close and the uppercut was nice,tight, and short and if Carwin put his waist and legs into the uppercut then Lesner would of been Ko'd, Thats the way you use the uppercut. You never throw an uppercut from far away, it leaves you too open.


I'm sorry are you saying Carwin has no power? Or that he only has power when he has perfect form, because he has never had good form.....

His feet aren't even on the f*cking ground when he KO's GG...










So give me a break if you're trying to say Brock has no chin Shane just didn't land with a proper punch...Carwin is just a freak of nature, he has insane power from no where.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

Threads merged... thats total bullshit. Come on mods.


----------



## jopach

No I am not saying he has no power I am saying that uppercut was thrown in a position where Carwin's power would of been severely diminished. I am not saying he only has power in perfect form I am saying he would better utilize his power if he worked on his punching technique. If he used his legs better and he turns his waist into the punch. 



So your saying he punches hard so why bother to continue to improve his power and technique? Once a fighter stops learning and improving thats when he gets beat and predictable. Regarding Lesner, who knows if he has a weak chin, but his reaction to Carwin's punch did not show a strong undentable chin. Usually big strong guys have a weakness and a lot of times its their chins.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

Lesnar is beatable. I see Lesnar fans shitting their pants everywere after that fight.

Had Lesnar fought someone with condition to go more than one round he would have been done. Period.

Don't even reply. Theres so much truth in that statement it's not even worth it.

Lesnar has wins over couture, herring, mir, and carwin. Thats a P4P fighter right there folks!!!!!


----------



## jopach

I admit I don't see alot of Lesnars training videos, but does he do any sparring? Everytime I see him train, he is either lifting weights or working on his wrestling. If not he really needs to, he would learn alot.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

jopach said:


> I admit I don't see alot of Lesnars training videos, but does he do any sparring? Everytime I see him train, he is either lifting weights or working on his wrestling. If not he really needs to, he would learn alot.


Obviously. Lesnar has a good ground game. I'll give him that. I hate the guy, but he's got good gnp.

Lesnar showed his weakness in that fight, and I couldn't be happier. Lesnar's done. It's only a matter of time. All the Lesnar fans know it, they just don't want to admit it. I couldn't be happier tonight.. especially considering his next opponent has better wrestling than Carwin, and cardio. Good night Brock, may the UFC forget u ever happened.


----------



## dario03

PheelGoodInc said:


> Lesnar is beatable. I see Lesnar fans shitting their pants everywere after that fight.
> 
> Had Lesnar fought someone with condition to go more than one round he would have been done. Period.
> 
> Don't even reply. Theres so much truth in that statement it's not even worth it.
> 
> Lesnar has wins over couture, herring, mir, and carwin. Thats a P4P fighter right there folks!!!!!


He has fought guys with the condition to go more than one round. Its just he hasn't fought anyone that has conditioning and also has Shane's power, size, and tdd. Thing is there isn't really anybody with that.

And of course Lesnar is beatable, everyone is. But even when he loses again it won't prove hes not a good fighter.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

dario03 said:


> He has fought guys with the condition to go more than one round. Its just he hasn't fought anyone that has conditioning and also has Shane's power, size, and tdd. Thing is there isn't really anybody with that.
> 
> And of course Lesnar is beatable, everyone is. But even when he loses again it won't prove hes not a good fighter.


Lesnar is over rated. I called that arm triangle from the first couple seconds they were on the ground in the second round. Everyone who I was watching the fights with said "Theres no way he'll win by submission". But he did because Carwin lacked basic jui jitsu and cardio. Any student after their first year would know how to not get caught in that.

All I've got to say is good luck with Cain. He's proven he can throw, wrestle, and has cardio. Lesnar's done.


----------



## deadmanshand

PheelGoodInc said:


> Lesnar is over rated. I called that arm triangle from the first couple seconds they were on the ground in the second round. Everyone who I was watching the fights with said "Theres no way he'll win by submission". But he did because Carwin lacked basic jui jitsu and cardio. Any student after their first year would know how to not get caught in that.
> 
> All I've got to say is good luck with Cain. He's proven he can throw, wrestle, and has cardio. Lesnar's done.


Mods? Can we get a banhammer on the troll here? Seriously?


----------



## dario03

PheelGoodInc said:


> Lesnar is over rated. I called that arm triangle from the first couple seconds they were on the ground in the second round. Everyone who I was watching the fights with said "Theres no way he'll win by submission". But he did because Carwin lacked basic jui jitsu and cardio. Any student after their first year would know how to not get caught in that.
> 
> All I've got to say is good luck with Cain. He's proven he can throw, wrestle, and has cardio. Lesnar's done.


How would losing to Cain make Lesnar be done? He would still be top 5 in the UFC. 
Who in the UFC can beat him more times than not??? 
I can only think of a few that might be able to.


----------



## deadmanshand

Don't feed the troll. He's been doing this all night. Just running in and barking about how Brock is done.


----------



## Guy Incognito

*No Quit in Lesnar After Shaky Opening Round, Velasquez Next*

s Shane Carwin hovered over Brock Lesnar battering him with repeated shots from both his hands, the UFC heavyweight champion had one thought: “This is not how it’s going to end.” 

The 32-year-old Lesnar -- absent from the Octagon for nearly a year after battling a near-death experience with a serious intestinal disorder last November -- seemed paralyzed as interim champion Carwin quickly backed him up with punches and folded him on the fence. Lesnar narrowly escaped a one-sided first round. 

But true to his word, Lesnar came out a renewed fighter in the second round, took a fatigued Carwin down, and applied a head-arm choke for his first submission victory ever at UFC 116 “Lesnar vs. Carwin” on Saturday at the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas. 

It was a telling title defense, demonstrating that what the 6-foot-3, 265-pound wrestler currently lacks in striking ability, he can make up for with resilience. 

“He hit me pretty good and then I didn’t know for a second, you know? I ended up on the ground and I just had to go into survival mode and try and stay busy,” said Carwin, who improved to 6-0 in his MMA career. 

Lesnar thanked referee Josh Rosenthal for allowing him the opportunity to fight out of deficit. 

“I wasn’t hurt,” said Lesnar. “I thought if I just kept moving…I could feel Shane’s punches slowly becoming less and less and I thought, ‘Well, if I get out of here, then I’m going to exert a bunch of energy.’” 

Lesnar gambled a stoppage, waited out the clock, and re-grouped in his corner before coming out a new man at the bell. The 2000 Div. I wrestling champion credited his second-round rebound with his past life as a pro wrestling superstar. 

“I just don’t get too emotionally attached to a certain round,” said Lesnar. “I trained for that in the gym. There’s just certain things that are going to happen. You’ve got no control over them and it’s whether or not you can just get out of there and do the right things to move on. I knew that I’d lost the first round, but there were still four more rounds left.” 

Lesnar’s submission finish might have been the most surprising element of his performance on Saturday, which earned the hulking champion an extra $75,000 in bonus pay from the promotion. Lesnar said his camp discussed the possibility that Carwin would be well prepared for the champion’s ground-and-pound attack, so the arm-triangle choke was drilled repeatedly. 

UFC President Dana White said Lesnar passed a stiff test in Carwin, who’d gone undefeated in 12 fights before Saturday and had never ventured into the second round. 

“You find out how tough a fighter really is when they face adversity,” said White, “when somebody’s on top of you dropping punches on you that have knocked a lot of other people out.” 

Lesnar, who spent two weeks in the hospital and was fed intravenously, mentioned how his return to fighting was nothing short of a miracle throughout the week and said he approached the fight with a greater sense of appreciation. 

“We are entertaining people, but this is truly a sport,” he said. “This is as real as it gets. But we can have a little fun out there, too. What the hell? 

“From what I’ve been through, through Nov. 6 of 2009 up until this point, it’s been ten years,” continued Lesnar. “It’s been a grueling, grueling road…To come back from all that and to be here and win, words just cannot describe it. I feel like I’m in a dream.” 

White said Lesnar’s relative inexperience as a fighter probably worked to his favor when it came to his yearlong layoff. 

“With a guy like Brock Lesnar, who only has five fights, he’s still learning and every time he goes into a camp he’s learning something new,” said White. “I don’t know if you can apply ring rust to a guy like Lesnar.” 

Lesnar also showed a refreshing humility discussing the UFC’s decision to back him with so little cage time on his resume. 

“I’m a wrestler. I’m trying to evolve, you know?” said Lesnar. “Is it pretty remarkable that I’ve only got six fights and I’m the UFC heavyweight champion? Absolutely it is. I’ve got a lot of room to grow. I’ll be the first one to tell you.” 

Lesnar, who expects his second child in a couple of weeks, gave no timetable for his next bout, though there is no doubt who he will meet. 

“Cain Velasquez is definitely the next fight for Brock Lesnar,” said White.


----------



## Guy Incognito

*No Quit in Lesnar After Shaky Opening Round, Velasquez Next*

As Shane Carwin hovered over Brock Lesnar battering him with repeated shots from both his hands, the UFC heavyweight champion had one thought: “This is not how it’s going to end.” 

The 32-year-old Lesnar -- absent from the Octagon for nearly a year after battling a near-death experience with a serious intestinal disorder last November -- seemed paralyzed as interim champion Carwin quickly backed him up with punches and folded him on the fence. Lesnar narrowly escaped a one-sided first round. 

But true to his word, Lesnar came out a renewed fighter in the second round, took a fatigued Carwin down, and applied a head-arm choke for his first submission victory ever at UFC 116 “Lesnar vs. Carwin” on Saturday at the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas. 

It was a telling title defense, demonstrating that what the 6-foot-3, 265-pound wrestler currently lacks in striking ability, he can make up for with resilience. 

“He hit me pretty good and then I didn’t know for a second, you know? I ended up on the ground and I just had to go into survival mode and try and stay busy,” said Carwin, who improved to 6-0 in his MMA career. 

Lesnar thanked referee Josh Rosenthal for allowing him the opportunity to fight out of deficit. 

“I wasn’t hurt,” said Lesnar. “I thought if I just kept moving…I could feel Shane’s punches slowly becoming less and less and I thought, ‘Well, if I get out of here, then I’m going to exert a bunch of energy.’” 

Lesnar gambled a stoppage, waited out the clock, and re-grouped in his corner before coming out a new man at the bell. The 2000 Div. I wrestling champion credited his second-round rebound with his past life as a pro wrestling superstar. 

“I just don’t get too emotionally attached to a certain round,” said Lesnar. “I trained for that in the gym. There’s just certain things that are going to happen. You’ve got no control over them and it’s whether or not you can just get out of there and do the right things to move on. I knew that I’d lost the first round, but there were still four more rounds left.” 

Lesnar’s submission finish might have been the most surprising element of his performance on Saturday, which earned the hulking champion an extra $75,000 in bonus pay from the promotion. Lesnar said his camp discussed the possibility that Carwin would be well prepared for the champion’s ground-and-pound attack, so the arm-triangle choke was drilled repeatedly. 

UFC President Dana White said Lesnar passed a stiff test in Carwin, who’d gone undefeated in 12 fights before Saturday and had never ventured into the second round. 

“You find out how tough a fighter really is when they face adversity,” said White, “when somebody’s on top of you dropping punches on you that have knocked a lot of other people out.” 

Lesnar, who spent two weeks in the hospital and was fed intravenously, mentioned how his return to fighting was nothing short of a miracle throughout the week and said he approached the fight with a greater sense of appreciation. 

“We are entertaining people, but this is truly a sport,” he said. “This is as real as it gets. But we can have a little fun out there, too. What the hell? 

“From what I’ve been through, through Nov. 6 of 2009 up until this point, it’s been ten years,” continued Lesnar. “It’s been a grueling, grueling road…To come back from all that and to be here and win, words just cannot describe it. I feel like I’m in a dream.” 

White said Lesnar’s relative inexperience as a fighter probably worked to his favor when it came to his yearlong layoff. 

“With a guy like Brock Lesnar, who only has five fights, he’s still learning and every time he goes into a camp he’s learning something new,” said White. “I don’t know if you can apply ring rust to a guy like Lesnar.” 

Lesnar also showed a refreshing humility discussing the UFC’s decision to back him with so little cage time on his resume. 

“I’m a wrestler. I’m trying to evolve, you know?” said Lesnar. “Is it pretty remarkable that I’ve only got six fights and I’m the UFC heavyweight champion? Absolutely it is. I’ve got a lot of room to grow. I’ll be the first one to tell you.” 

Lesnar, who expects his second child in a couple of weeks, gave no timetable for his next bout, though there is no doubt who he will meet. 

“Cain Velasquez is definitely the next fight for Brock Lesnar,” said White.

s Shane Carwin hovered over Brock Lesnar battering him with repeated shots from both his hands, the UFC heavyweight champion had one thought: “This is not how it’s going to end.” 

The 32-year-old Lesnar -- absent from the Octagon for nearly a year after battling a near-death experience with a serious intestinal disorder last November -- seemed paralyzed as interim champion Carwin quickly backed him up with punches and folded him on the fence. Lesnar narrowly escaped a one-sided first round. 

But true to his word, Lesnar came out a renewed fighter in the second round, took a fatigued Carwin down, and applied a head-arm choke for his first submission victory ever at UFC 116 “Lesnar vs. Carwin” on Saturday at the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas. 

It was a telling title defense, demonstrating that what the 6-foot-3, 265-pound wrestler currently lacks in striking ability, he can make up for with resilience. 

“He hit me pretty good and then I didn’t know for a second, you know? I ended up on the ground and I just had to go into survival mode and try and stay busy,” said Carwin, who improved to 6-0 in his MMA career. 

Lesnar thanked referee Josh Rosenthal for allowing him the opportunity to fight out of deficit. 

“I wasn’t hurt,” said Lesnar. “I thought if I just kept moving…I could feel Shane’s punches slowly becoming less and less and I thought, ‘Well, if I get out of here, then I’m going to exert a bunch of energy.’” 

Lesnar gambled a stoppage, waited out the clock, and re-grouped in his corner before coming out a new man at the bell. The 2000 Div. I wrestling champion credited his second-round rebound with his past life as a pro wrestling superstar. 

“I just don’t get too emotionally attached to a certain round,” said Lesnar. “I trained for that in the gym. There’s just certain things that are going to happen. You’ve got no control over them and it’s whether or not you can just get out of there and do the right things to move on. I knew that I’d lost the first round, but there were still four more rounds left.” 

Lesnar’s submission finish might have been the most surprising element of his performance on Saturday, which earned the hulking champion an extra $75,000 in bonus pay from the promotion. Lesnar said his camp discussed the possibility that Carwin would be well prepared for the champion’s ground-and-pound attack, so the arm-triangle choke was drilled repeatedly. 

UFC President Dana White said Lesnar passed a stiff test in Carwin, who’d gone undefeated in 12 fights before Saturday and had never ventured into the second round. 

“You find out how tough a fighter really is when they face adversity,” said White, “when somebody’s on top of you dropping punches on you that have knocked a lot of other people out.” 

Lesnar, who spent two weeks in the hospital and was fed intravenously, mentioned how his return to fighting was nothing short of a miracle throughout the week and said he approached the fight with a greater sense of appreciation. 

“We are entertaining people, but this is truly a sport,” he said. “This is as real as it gets. But we can have a little fun out there, too. What the hell? 

“From what I’ve been through, through Nov. 6 of 2009 up until this point, it’s been ten years,” continued Lesnar. “It’s been a grueling, grueling road…To come back from all that and to be here and win, words just cannot describe it. I feel like I’m in a dream.” 

White said Lesnar’s relative inexperience as a fighter probably worked to his favor when it came to his yearlong layoff. 

“With a guy like Brock Lesnar, who only has five fights, he’s still learning and every time he goes into a camp he’s learning something new,” said White. “I don’t know if you can apply ring rust to a guy like Lesnar.” 

Lesnar also showed a refreshing humility discussing the UFC’s decision to back him with so little cage time on his resume. 

“I’m a wrestler. I’m trying to evolve, you know?” said Lesnar. “Is it pretty remarkable that I’ve only got six fights and I’m the UFC heavyweight champion? Absolutely it is. I’ve got a lot of room to grow. I’ll be the first one to tell you.” 

Lesnar, who expects his second child in a couple of weeks, gave no timetable for his next bout, though there is no doubt who he will meet. 

“Cain Velasquez is definitely the next fight for Brock Lesnar,” said White.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/No-Quit-in-Lesnar-After-Shaky-Opening-Round-Velasquez-Next-25475


there's a few errors but it's written by loretta hunt so no surprise there


----------



## PheelGoodInc

deadmanshand said:


> Mods? Can we get a banhammer on the troll here? Seriously?


Yep. The truth is hard to take. Just call me a troll and not event try to reply to any truth in my posts. Hey, whatever makes you feel better at night.



dario03 said:


> How would losing to Cain make Lesnar be done? He would still be top 5 in the UFC.
> Who in the UFC can beat him more times than not???
> I can only think of a few that might be able to.


I meant he's done at being the champ. Comprehension isn't your strong suite. Obviously...



deadmanshand said:


> Don't feed the troll. He's been doing this all night. Just running in and barking about how Brock is done.


Just like you've been negative repping me for talking about Brocks obviously weakness. I just watched that fight again, and got a huge smile on my face.

Over rated. Once someone with decent fists and cardio meets Brock, he's gone. Deep down you know it's true.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

Thows up a little bit.


Mods please merge threads.


----------



## No_Mercy

Brock to me was purely an entertainer much like Tito was before. One whom I do not consider a true MMA fighter, however he does deserve credit for his resilience. Lost my two bets on Carwin unfortunately, but I take solace in that Carwin gave him everything he had AND Brock took it. Gotta give credit where credit is do. I will say this though, NOBODY stays on top forever. 

Cain
JDS
Mir
Overeem *
Werdum *
Fedor *
Mirko's my pick cuz he's the only one next to Carwin with one hit KO ability. Plus I really want him to retire with one last LHK KO who better than for Brock to be the recipient...roflz.


----------



## limba

My respect for Brock has gone up. He has shown a lot of heart and determination, and for that...BIG RESPECT! He is a Real MMA fighter.


----------



## deadmanshand

Deep down I know it's true.... nope. See I actually responded to your points in various other posts. You ignored those ones because they made you look like the hating ignorant jackass that you are.

Lesnar proved 4 things tonight.

1) That he can take a hell of a punch.

2) That he can overcome adversity.

3) That his skillset is evolving.

4) That his striking still has a long way to go.

His obvious weakness is something everybody has been acknowledging for months you complete pompous tool. Striking has always been his weakness. No one is denying that. You repeating it 8000 times in one night is just annoying.

What you are ignoring consistently is that you said that he would lose to carwin. That his time was done. Yet - that fight that left you with a smile on your face - showed him proving you wrong.

Now that seems to me to point to one obvious conclusion. That you are a troll. An idiot exercising the internet right to not get punched in the face for being a raving asshat.

Once again, mods, can we muzzle this barking dog?


----------



## dario03

PheelGoodInc said:


> Yep. The truth is hard to take. Just call me a troll and not event try to reply to any truth in my posts. Hey, whatever makes you feel better at night.
> 
> 
> 
> I meant he's done at being the champ. Comprehension isn't your strong suite. Obviously...
> 
> 
> 
> Just like you've been negative repping me for talking about Brocks obviously weakness. I just watched that fight again, and got a huge smile on my face.
> 
> Over rated. Once someone with decent fists and cardio meats Brock, he's gone. Deep down you know it's true.


LOL I love when people move to personal insults when they get called out on something. Oh and if you only meant he would lose the title then you shouldn't say things like


> Good night Brock, may the UFC forget u ever happened.


Even if he does lose and is no longer the champion he would still be a good fighter and it wouldn't prove that he is over rated. Or is being in the top 5 not good anymore? I would like to know who in the UFC you would rank higher than Brock.


----------



## Danm2501

Cain offers a legitimate threat to Brock here. He has tremendous cardio for a HW, very good wrestling and technical kickboxing. The one thing Cain doesn't have, that Carwin does, is the crazy power. I under-rated Carwin's power going into this fight, but man, that dude hits so hard. Cain was nicknamed Pillow Hands after the Kongo fight, and although that tag has somewhat gone after TKOing Nog, I still don't think he has the power to really worry Brock like Carwin did. Brock will also have a sizeable weight and strength advantage in this fight, which could allow him to utilise his wrestling to better effect than against the bigger man in Carwin. It should be a fantastic fight, and although I'm going to continue to back Brock, this one really could go either way. That's the beauty of the HW division, all the guys at the top of the tree are so closely matched and fights between the Top 4/5 guys could all go either way. Loving the division ATM.


----------



## deadmanshand

PheelGoodInc said:


> Thows up a little bit.
> 
> 
> Mods please merge threads.


Throws up a little bit.

Mods please ban troll.


----------



## anderton46

Don't see how Valasquez wins this. Can't see him being able to keep it on the feet for long enough spells to trouble Lesnar. Can'tsee him taking Lesnar down or him having enough power to trouble lesnar. Only way is by decisioning him.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

Such a lack of intelligence in the sport and in general. I don't even know where to start. I will say though... it's nice after you trolling for several posts to make an actual attempt at a legitimate response.



deadmanshand said:


> Deep down I know it's true.... nope. See I actually responded to your points in various other posts. You ignored those ones because they made you look like the hating ignorant jackass that you are.


I've responded to anything anyone says at me... point by point. You call that trolling... while you took personal shots at me instead of the facts for several posts. It's clear who the troll is here.



> Lesnar proved 4 things tonight.
> 
> 1) That he can take a hell of a punch.


He can get put on his ass and keep his hands over his face. Something that most ref's would call a fight for. I wouldn't call that "taking one hell of a punch". I would call that covering up and hoping the round ends... which it did.



> 2) That he can overcome adversity.


Give me a ******* break. What adversity did he over come? He was sick. He admittedly said he was back to 100%. And now all of this sudden he overcame odds? 

Jesus... Brock fans are incredible with the shit they come up with.



> 3) That his skillset is evolving.


Yep. He pulled a basic submission I learned in the first 3 months of jui jitsu. He's evolving at an epic rate!!!!!!!



> 4) That his striking still has a long way to go.


The only truth in your entire post... which is still an understatement. He has minimal chin, and lacks basic boxing.



> His obvious weakness is something everybody has been acknowledging for months you complete pompous tool. Striking has always been his weakness. No one is denying that. You repeating it 8000 times in one night is just annoying.


Have you read this site in the last month? People were touting about Brock like he's some sort of super hero. People showed his Herring punch when talking about standup. His GnP against Mir when talking about the ground. According to this site Brock was a God sent from the heavens..... until tonight.



> What you are ignoring consistently is that you said that he would lose to carwin. That his time was done. Yet - that fight that left you with a smile on your face - showed him proving you wrong.
> 
> Now that seems to me to point to one obvious conclusion. That you are a troll. An idiot exercising the internet right to not get punched in the face for being a raving asshat.
> 
> Once again, mods, can we muzzle this barking dog?


Nah. I said I think Carwin could beat him and he was over rated. I didn't expect Carwin to come in with amateur cardio (nor did anyone else). I was right on the buttton in my predictions of this fight.

Again, you take shots at me instead of the obvious points. I'll have a little more class and stick to the facts. I know it's tough, but try it out. You might like it.


----------



## deadmanshand

Let me go through point for point with ya buddy. I'll even be nice and ignore your whole lie about responding to every post made to you.

1)Let's see... he took the hardest shot of a guy who has put everybody he has fought in the UFC to sleep. A guy who hit's like a freight train. And he got back up. Which he did before the end of the first round even. The first round ended with Brock having Carwin pressed up against the cage grinding at his cardio. So you would be completely and utterly wrong in a way that would shame your parents if they only knew how wrong you actually were.

2) The adversity I was referring, Mister Troll sir, was the being rocked and weathering the storm of a large man doing his best to make him forget his mother but I'll add in a life threatening illness too. Why not?

3) Yeah but I bet you couldn't get that submission on someone who had just spent the better part of 4 minutes beating your face in with a jackhammer or get it on somebody who has a purple belt in bjj. 

In all seriousness it did show an aspect of his game that hadn't been shown before. So, yes, him winning with a submission did show an evolving skillset.

4)Minimal chin? Are you perhaps not familiar with the English language? If not there are people who can teach it to you. Minimal means very little. Someone like that would be knocked unconscious by say a Heath Herring "I'm not a ***!" slap. Lesnar has what those of us who have studied the language call an iron chin for withstanding blows from a man with jackhammers for arms.

As for you sticking to class and facts that's a lot like Michael Jackson sticking to a human wardrobe or adults. It doesn't go together. See class means not being a raving douchenozzle and facts imply that what you say is true as opposed to a bunch of barking, drooling biased drivel. So really not close at all.

If you have any further questions about the English language or reality I am sure your nurse will let you have access to the computer to ask us again. If you've been a good boy, taken your medicine, and not diddled yourself in therapy again. Thank you.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

deadmanshand said:


> Let me go through point for point with ya buddy. I'll even be nice and ignore your whole lie about responding to every post made to you.


I would be glad if that was the case. I'm still waiting for that to happen.



> 1)Let's see... he took the hardest shot of a guy who has put everybody he has fought in the UFC to sleep. A guy who hit's like a freight train. And he got back up. Which he did before the end of the first round even. The first round ended with Brock having Carwin pressed up against the cage grinding at his cardio.


The hardest shot? Give me a break. That wasn't even a clean full power connect that put him on his ass. Carwin's cardio was done halfway through the round. Carwin even backed off to let Brock stand up... but Brock was so badly beaten he didn't want to move. Carwin was sucked into Brock's game plan at the moment... which was to lay there while he somewhat recovered.



> So you would be completely and utterly wrong in a way that would shame your parents if they only knew how wrong you actually were.


Uhg. Already going against your first statement. Must be hard to stick to the facts in this fight. Hell... if I was in ur shoes (defending a defenseless point), I would have to take cheap shots too.




> 2) The adversity I was referring, Mister Troll sir, was the being rocked and weathering the storm of a large man doing his best to make him forget his mother but I'll add in a life threatening illness too. Why not?


Of course. Taking a half shot to the head which put him on his ass and a bunch of punches that didn't fully connect means Brock has overcome adversity.

WOW. What a hero to everyone who is down in life!



> 3) Yeah but I bet you couldn't get that submission on someone who had just spent the better part of 4 minutes beating your face in with a jackhammer or get it on somebody who has a purple belt in bjj.


It's funny you mention that. Arm trinagles just so happen to be my favorite submission. Being a wrestler I switch from a head and arm to the submission pretty regularly... and effectively even against guy who are beating me. But, of course, you know all about me.

FYI I'm not even a purple belt.

Lesnar wins by arm triangle. WHAT A GOD SEND!



> In all seriousness it did show an aspect of his game that hadn't been shown before. So, yes, him winning with a submission did show an evolving skillset.


He's learned basic jui jitsu. Congrats for a UFC champ.



> 4)Minimal chin? Are you perhaps not familiar with the English language? If not there are people who can teach it to you. Minimal means very little. Someone like that would be knocked unconscious by say a Heath Herring "I'm not a ***!" slap. Lesnar has what those of us who have studied the language call an iron chin for withstanding blows from a man with jackhammers for arms.
> 
> As for you sticking to class and facts that's a lot like Michael Jackson sticking to a human wardrobe or adults. It doesn't go together. See class means not being a raving douchenozzle and facts imply that what you say is true as opposed to a bunch of barking, drooling biased drivel. So really not close at all.
> 
> If you have any further questions about the English language or reality I am sure your nurse will let you have access to the computer to ask us again. If you've been a good boy, taken your medicine, and not diddled yourself in therapy again. Thank you.


Huh? But I thought you said you weren't going to take shots at me and stick to the facts? I didn't understand half of what you said. Not because of my superior vocabulary... but because your utter attempt to make me look bad has left you unable to write a legible / understandable sentence.

Although you attempted to make actual points in this post, your last little rant diminished any factual basis you had... and clearly shows you stretching with personal insults.

Let me guess, you came to MMA from the WWE?


----------



## Fedorthebest

jopach said:


> No I am not saying he has no power I am saying that uppercut was thrown in a position where Carwin's power would of been severely diminished. I am not saying he only has power in perfect form I am saying he would better utilize his power if he worked on his punching technique. If he used his legs better and he turns his waist into the punch.
> 
> 
> 
> So your saying he punches hard so why bother to continue to improve his power and technique? Once a fighter stops learning and improving thats when he gets beat and predictable. Regarding Lesner, who knows if he has a weak chin, but his reaction to Carwin's punch did not show a strong undentable chin. Usually big strong guys have a weakness and a lot of times its their chins.


ahahahahahahahaahahahah u are an idiot or what?? Carwin never loose before tonight and everyone said that he destroyed Brock so shut up and remember LESNAR IS YOUR KING...LESNAR IS THE CHAMP...all the rest is bullshit,just like your words


----------



## Abrissbirne

Why can´t people show simple respect and know everything better...
Ofc they have a much bigger knowledge than the professional training stuff 
How about fighting Lesnar you have the Gameplan to win easily it seems.


----------



## deadmanshand

I never said I wasn't going to take personal shots at you. You're a troll. I'm not even vaguely trying to be nice to you. What I said was that I would be nice and not mention your little lie up there.

Reading comprehension is a bitch isn't it?

1) Carwin was still fresh when he hit Brock with a power uppercut. So yeah. Flush shot from the hardest hitter in mma. That's a fact. It happened. I watched it multiple times.

Still never went against my first statement. You should be getting tired of being wrong right about now.

2)Adversity in this case is referring to overcoming a bad position in a fight. Perfectly good usage of the word. You, being a troll or possibly just not understanding the English language, would - of course - twist this.

3)Backing up your point with no-confirmable facts. Good for you. I like a unprovable argument from a troll. It makes them easier to spot.

4)You sound awfully bitter and somewhat jealous there. He showed a new aspect to his game. Pretty much the definition of "evolving skillset" wouldn't you say?

Oddly, or maybe not for you, my final rant is in damn near perfect English. Perfectly legible and with a clear meaning. Textbook. 

Let me just say this more plainly so that you can properly understand me. I'm purely screwing with you. You made yourself a large trollish type target and I - being that I am sitting home sick - decided to have some fun. Your continual assertions that everyone else is failing to use facts when you yourself have used none or your continued telling of people to refute your points in threads where you have made no points and are comparing Lesnar to a murderer entertain me. Making you spend twenty minutes typing up a response to something I spent 3 minutes on makes me laugh.

As for your final comment. No. I'm actually not a wrestling fan. I come to MMA from a martial arts background stretching back more than 20 years starting with being enrolled in Shotokan Karate when I was 7. I still have a blue belt in it to sit next to my black belts in Tae Kwon Do and Judo. I have trained BJJ under Renalto Tavares the head bjj coach for American Top Team and still have a standing invitation to train there. So I come from the very opposite direction and background that you seem to think.

Now I am tired. I'm going to go to bed with a smile on my face thanks to you and your "facts". Have a good day.

By the by, you're still a troll. I just like hunting trolls.


----------



## Fedorthebest

*Lesnar proved 4 things tonight.*

1) That he can take a hell of a punch.

*YOUR REPLACE PheelGoodInc:*

*He can get put on his ass and keep his hands over his face. Something that most ref's would call a fight for. I wouldn't call that "taking one hell of a punch". I would call that covering up and hoping the round ends... which it did.*

Congrats U just Showed to the world that u are troll or an idiot or u don't know nothing about take an elbow strike in the chin by the most powerful striker of the ufc...
U ARE A CLOWN ahahahahahahahah


----------



## UKMMAGURU

Lesnar is a beast, i ONLY person i can see KO/TKOing him in the future is Carwin himself.....


----------



## PheelGoodInc

deadmanshand said:


> I never said I wasn't going to take personal shots at you. You're a troll. I'm not even vaguely trying to be nice to you. What I said was that I would be nice and not mention your little lie up there.
> 
> Reading comprehension is a bitch isn't it?
> 
> 1) Carwin was still fresh when he hit Brock with a power uppercut. So yeah. Flush shot from the hardest hitter in mma. That's a fact. It happened. I watched it multiple times.
> 
> Still never went against my first statement. You should be getting tired of being wrong right about now.
> 
> 2)Adversity in this case is referring to overcoming a bad position in a fight. Perfectly good usage of the word. You, being a troll or possibly just not understanding the English language, would - of course - twist this.
> 
> 3)Backing up your point with no-confirmable facts. Good for you. I like a unprovable argument from a troll. It makes them easier to spot.
> 
> 4)You sound awfully bitter and somewhat jealous there. He showed a new aspect to his game. Pretty much the definition of "evolving skillset" wouldn't you say?
> 
> Oddly, or maybe not for you, my final rant is in damn near perfect English. Perfectly legible and with a clear meaning. Textbook.
> 
> Let me just say this more plainly so that you can properly understand me. I'm purely screwing with you. You made yourself a large trollish type target and I - being that I am sitting home sick - decided to have some fun. Your continual assertions that everyone else is failing to use facts when you yourself have used none or your continued telling of people to refute your points in threads where you have made no points and are comparing Lesnar to a murderer entertain me. Making you spend twenty minutes typing up a response to something I spent 3 minutes on makes me laugh.
> 
> As for your final comment. No. I'm actually not a wrestling fan. *I come to MMA from a martial arts background stretching back more than 20 years starting with being enrolled in Shotokan Karate when I was 7. I still have a blue belt in it to sit next to my black belts in Tae Kwon Do and Judo. I have trained BJJ under Renalto Tavares the head bjj coach for American Top Team and still have a standing invitation to train there. So I come from the very opposite direction and background that you seem to think.*
> 
> Now I am tired. I'm going to go to bed with a smile on my face thanks to you and your "facts". Have a good day.
> 
> By the by, you're still a troll. I just like hunting trolls.



I thought about tearing you apart point by point again... until I read the end of you post. LAWL for talking about your history with Karate. Obviously I got under your skin. sleep tight.


----------



## Walter

anderton46 said:


> Don't see how Valasquez wins this. Can't see him being able to keep it on the feet for long enough spells to trouble Lesnar. Can'tsee him taking Lesnar down or him having enough power to trouble lesnar. Only way is by decisioning him.


If Randy could keep it standing, Cain might pull it off too. He's got a good speed advantage and if his standup is as good as in the last fight, he should have an advantage there too.

He also probably has the gas tank to go 5 rounds, I wouldn't write him out. Sure his ground and pound won't be of much use, but he could win by sprawl and brawl.


----------



## Fedorthebest

PheelGoodInc said:


> I thought about tearing you apart point by point again... until I read the end of you post. LAWL for talking about your history with Karate. Obviously I got under your skin. sleep tight.


i told u again,u are AN IDIOT,A TROLL,OR U DON'T KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THAT SPORT...make your choice clown ahahah


----------



## The_Senator

Well, I was wrong again. It seems like most of my predictions no longer come true. I'm always wrong about Frank Mir (starting with UFC 81), and I was right about Lesnar only once when he faced Randy Couture. Today Brock pulled what no one expected - survived Carwin's onslaught and submitted him right after that. It's huge. Now I think that Cigano and Velasquez won't beat him either: the first one because of questionable TDD and worse wrestling skills and the second because of lack of power, especially comparing to Carwin, and slightly worse ground game since we talk about pure wrestling skills here, excepting BJJ, - Cain hasn't pulled any submissions yet and Brock just submitted Shane (although it certainly doesn't make him a dangerous BJJ expert). Another thing is size advantage. But this year my predictions suck, so actual fights will probably turn out differently including outcomes I wonder how Overeem would do against Lesnar...


----------



## PheelGoodInc

Fedorthebest said:


> *Lesnar proved 4 things tonight.*
> 
> 1) That he can take a hell of a punch.
> 
> *YOUR REPLACE PheelGoodInc:*
> 
> *He can get put on his ass and keep his hands over his face. Something that most ref's would call a fight for. I wouldn't call that "taking one hell of a punch". I would call that covering up and hoping the round ends... which it did.*
> 
> Congrats U just Showed to the world that u are troll or an idiot or u don't know nothing about take an elbow strike in the chin by the most powerful striker of the ufc...
> U ARE A CLOWN ahahahahahahahah


That was one of the most pathetic attempts at making a quote or structuring a sentence I've ever seen. That says a lot for the internet.

Elbow strike was towards the end of the round. Carwin tried to back off and let Brock up... but he was too beaten and tired. That strike proved nothing except it sucked more life out of Brock.... and Carwin

Brock was done until the round change... when Brock recovered better and won with an incredibly basic submission against a guy who basically gave up.

You must feel good about your champ.


----------



## deadmanshand

PheelGoodInc said:


> I thought about tearing you apart point by point again... until I read the end of you post. LAWL for talking about your history with Karate. Obviously I got under your skin. sleep tight.


How did me talking about taking karate when I was 7 prove that you got under my skin? That doesn't even make sense.

As for tearing me apart point by point again you would have to have done it at least once. Since all that's happened tonight is that I have made you look at least a little slow.

Whatever. You have a good night. Enjoy believing for a few brief moments that you somehow got under my skin with your rants and accusations. It's a delicate delusion so protect it well.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

deadmanshand said:


> How did me talking about taking karate when I was 7 prove that you got under my skin? That doesn't even make sense.
> 
> As for tearing me apart point by point again you would have to have done it at least once. Since all that's happened tonight is that I have made you look at least a little slow.
> 
> Whatever. You have a good night. Enjoy believing for a few brief moments that you somehow got under my skin with your rants and accusations. It's a delicate delusion so protect it well.



I thought you were going to bed? 

Enough said.


----------



## Fedorthebest

PheelGoodInc said:


> That was one of the most pathetic attempts at making a quote or structuring a sentence I've ever seen. That says a lot for the internet.
> 
> Elbow strike was towards the end of the round. Carwin tried to back off and let Brock up... but he was too beaten and tired. That strike proved nothing except it sucked more life out of Brock.... and Carwin
> 
> Brock was done until the round change... when Brock recovered better and won with an incredibly basic submission against a guy who basically gave up.
> 
> You must feel good about your champ.


go watch the match again troll


----------



## PheelGoodInc

deadmanshand said:


> Throws up a little bit.
> 
> Mods please ban troll.


Yep. Because copying and pasting an entire article is actually a lot better than actually thinking of something to say yourself.

You're a mental midget.


----------



## GarethUFC

thats twice you posted this tripe.. PUT SPOILER in it.


----------



## looney liam

*Reasons why Lesnar-Carwin wasn't stopped in the first.*

there's obviously alot of talk right now that the ref should have stopped the fight when carwin was delivering his onslaught in the first round. i must admit i felt the same way when i first watched the fight myself, and its a good job neither me nor any of you are referees.


Firstly, this fight was for a world title. In title fights the refs naturally let fights go on longer until either the defending fighter goes limp, or takes many unanswered blows to the head. Title fights are very rarely stopped if the fighter is still conscious. look at the carwin/mir fight for example, the ref kept that going till mir went limp, up until that point mir was moving and attempting sweeps.

it looked worse than it was because as soon as Lesnar got hit he simply didn't know what to do. After being taken down he didn't even attempt to get to full guard; this is all due to his inexperience. however, he was constantly moving and covering up, and blocking alot of shots, and this is what kept the referee from stopping it. there was no point where lesnar went limp, or stopped moving and took countless unanswered blows.

A referee is always trying to ensure a fighters safety. there can't be any favourtism, especially with a fighter like carwin. if the ref let lesnar take too many shots he could end up getting seriously injured and it would be bad for the sport. UFC spent years to change the bloodsport image of the sport, and thats the last thing they want. The ref knew lesnar wasn't badly hurt, and his decision was justified as lesnar came back and got the submission.


----------



## Guy Incognito

PheelGoodInc said:


> Yep. Because copying and pasting an entire article is actually a lot better than actually thinking of something to say yourself.
> 
> You're a mental midget.


people want to know what the fighters have to say after the fight you dumb ****


----------



## Johnni G

Gz Lesnar


----------



## Walter

Completely agree, that's how they do it in title fights, way more punishment is a allowed. Had it been a regular fight, who knows ? Even then it depends a lot on the ref.

In the end, the outcome proved it was the right decision. Lesnar did not suffer any injuries. I'm glad the senator of Nevada was there to witness it.

OT: The vid in your sig is "no longer available due to a copyright claim by UFC - Zuffa LLC."


----------



## Johnni G

Good read.


----------



## Emericanaddict

guy incognito said:


> people want to know what the fighters have to say after the fight you dumb ****


Both of you guys are cutting this stuff very fine here and need to chill out. Personal insults and attacks are not permitted in any fashion. Theres no need for name calling by either of you. 

Keep on topic boys and keep it clean. The mods will merge the threads soon enough. I dont think he posted two on purpose accidents happen and there is nothing wrong with posting an article if you source it. He's just delivering us some news guys so relax.


----------



## Spec0688

PheelGoodInc said:


> Yep. Because copying and pasting an entire article is actually a lot better than actually thinking of something to say yourself.
> 
> You're a mental midget.





People like reading the post fight comments of fighters, I think you are just pissed off no one is helping you match your hate of Brock. You are the troll sir.


----------



## Freiermuth

Props to Brock for showing endurance/toughness, and pulling out a nice sub. Still sort too much of a self-centered ass though for me to really be a fan.

Carwin was completely gassed the 2nd round, he let the adrenaline take over. Carwin should have stayed on top of Brock and picked his shots or let Brock up earlier.


----------



## Spec0688

I loved how Lesnar smiled at Carwin at the start of round 2, what a guy, to smile after taking a beating like that. I bet he was thinking along the lines of 'im about to take my title home now', he probably knew he was going to win the second round.


----------



## usernamewoman

makes you wonder what would've happened if mazzagatti was reffing the fight


----------



## Freiermuth

Spec0688 said:


> I loved how Lesnar smiled at Carwin at the start of round 2, what a guy, to smile after taking a beating like that. I bet he was thinking along the lines of 'im about to take my title home now', he probably knew he was going to win the second round.


Yeah, he had to know that Carwin was done.

They did show mutual respect towards each other which was also cool.


----------



## bmo37

Everyone's got it wrong the greatest part of the fight was pre-match celebrity announcements in attendence by Mike Golberg "Steve Cold Stone Austin" lmafo.

Again I'm still kind of shocked, I was hoping for a Carwin KO which he was close to in the first round, and if it wasn't a title fight like others have mentioned it would have been stopped but it was the right call. Two things really showed what a lack of endurance Shane has which really wasn't a surprise and what was a surprise was the submission of Brock which showed some small evolution and gained more of my respect.


----------



## Jebber

Fedorbator said:


> Carwin could not have defended against the choke more incorrectly. Jackson fail.
> 
> Awesome card!


Well in Jackson's defense, who would have thought?


----------



## hixxy

I dont really like Lesnar, but was glad the ref didnt stop it in the first round. He made the right call, fair play to him.


----------



## War

I'm glad to see that the world is coming around on Brock. Soon he'll be a great ambassador for the sport and I'm sure he'll bring in even more fans.

As for Cain, I almost feel bad for him. I honestly don't see a way for Cain to win if Carwin, who everyone thought was the Brock killer, can't get the job done with the bombs he was dropping. 

It'll be interesting but I can't see Cain pulling that one out.


----------



## elessarcif

Just look at his face in the post game. Either it was all really swollen equally or he looked pretty damn good. There is nothing worse then a fight stopping too soon. I appreciate the restraint.


----------



## Mirage445

Pretty much whenever he looked like he was getting into some trouble he managed to improve his position by either preventing one of Carwins arms from punching, or pushing Carwin away from him with his legs.

If he hadn't done those things, I believe the fight would have been stopped, but by doing what he was doing, he was proving to the ref that he was still able to defend himself.

There are a lot of people that could learn from this fight.


----------



## PinkPanther21

The_Senator said:


> I wonder how Overeem would do against Lesnar...


Here's a question: Could Werdum or someone like him take Lesnar in the same way that Fedor was taken - or was that Mir's game?


----------



## War

There were also multiple times during the storm when Brock was looking up at the ref and nodding his head as well as verbally telling him that he was OK. IMO that is what kept the fight going. If Carwin had been on top of him throwing those shots and Brock was covered up but not responding it may have been finished. 

The people I was watching the fight with actually expected the stoppage and as soon as we saw him look up and both nod and speak, we knew that Brock was still in the game. So if we knew I'm sure the ref got the point.

With these really huge guys you've gotta give them more of a chance. Especially with guys like Brock or Carwin where every punch seems to be a fight ending punch if it connects properly.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Anyone else leave this fight thinking that we just saw the start of a huge rivalry and what will potentially be another trilogy? We just saw someone maul Brock for an entire round. We saw Brock come back and take advantage of a punched out Carwin. Had Carwin not been tired, he would have won, period. There will almost certainly be a rematch after Brock mutilates Cain. In the rematch I will still pick Carwin.


----------



## justmike79

well after a very disapointg main event I have to say props to BL. Carwin screwd up and let the excitment get to em and got winded. Truth be told Carwin almost from the word fight, dominated the 1st round. say what you want but thats the fact of it. but 2nd round came along and Carwin was simply gassed out, and was not able to defend the submission against an obviously fresher BL. guess thats answers a few cardio questions about Carwin. Any ways a fighter needs to lose once and a while, to be able to see the holes in their games. Carwin will take this lose and come back stronger than he was before


----------



## jasvll

justmike79 said:


> well after a very disapointg main event I have to say props to BL. Carwin screwd up and let the excitment get to em and got winded. Truth be told Carwin almost from the word fight, dominated the 1st round. say what you want but thats the fact of it. but 2nd round came along and Carwin was simply gassed out, and was not able to defend the submission against an obviously fresher BL. guess thats answers a few cardio questions about Carwin. Any ways a fighter needs to lose once and a while, to be able to see the holes in their games. Carwin will take this lose and come back stronger than he was before


The problem is, after that domination, not only was Brock still there, he barely seemed warmed up. Had Carwin been in great shape and paced himself, I think it would have only delayed the outcome.


----------



## The Horticulturist

Brock is still so inexperienced, but the guys he's facing and the situations he's overcome are giving him tremendous confidence. 

Carwin had the big upper hand in this fight, but Lesnar proved so many people wrong.

He took EVERYTHING Carwin had. Even an elbow from FULL posture. Nothing phased him except him being uncomfortable on the feet in the first place. He recovered beautifully and had a Nog-esque performance but will still be hated  

As a Lesnar fan, I think this was the best possible way for the fight to go. He was humbled, but at the same time now he knows he doesn't need to be so timid of being hit. He took everything Carwin (believed to be the hardest puncher) had, and still had his wits to pull off the sub. Who's going to be stopping Brock's arm triangles as he becomes more technically sound? That's a scary thought, in my opinion.

I'm still riding a high from this ppv. I'm watching it again right now.


----------



## hatedcellphones

I was really disappointed by this fight. It did answer some questions about Carwin's Cardio though. He never really needed it before this fight. At least he showed that Brock's standup game is still crap. I do want to see a rematch though. There's no way Carwin's going to take a loss like that and just let it fly. Hopefully he'll work on his cardio a lot more for the next one and maybe even some more grappling stuff. We'll see what the future holds though.


----------



## Calminian

michelangelo said:


> Brock got bounced around like a pinball in almost comical fashion in the first round. It was like watching a drunk stumble onto the street at 2:15 AM on a payday friday night. ...


you try to fight a top 5 HW after major surgery. that's some serious trauma to the body. people are never the same after procedures like that. I think it's amazing what he did.



justmike79 said:


> ...Carwin screwd up and let the excitment get to em and got winded. Truth be told Carwin almost from the word fight, dominated the 1st round. say what you want but thats the fact of it. but 2nd round came along and Carwin was simply gassed out, and was not able to defend the submission against an obviously fresher BL. guess thats answers a few cardio questions about Carwin. Any ways a fighter needs to lose once and a while, to be able to see the holes in their games. Carwin will take this lose and come back stronger than he was before


What's interesting is, everyone says Carwin was gassed but Carwin. When asked about being gassed, he just said he couldn't defend because Brock was locked it up too tight. I don't think the guy was gassed.


----------



## Spec0688

*You can tell Joe Rogan almost shat his pants*

When he was interviewing Lesnar, he took his mouth piece out and put it into his shirt pocket. Rogan was probably about to have a heart attack, scared for his life.


----------



## The_Sandman

Spec0688 said:


> When he was interviewing Lesnar, he took his mouth piece out and put it into his shirt pocket. Rogan was probably about to have a heart attack, scared for his life.


LOL!! Yea, that was funny.

I dont know if you saw the prelims on Spike!, but Rogan, interviewed Lesnar prior to the main-card... You can see in Rogan's eyes that he was scared. Kinda looked like he wanted to cry. :sad02:


----------



## Dream-On-101

Calminian said:


> you try to fight a top 5 HW after major surgery. that's some serious trauma to the body. people are never the same after procedures like that. I think it's amazing what he did.
> 
> 
> 
> *What's interesting is, everyone says Carwin was gassed but Carwin. When asked about being gassed, he just said he couldn't defend because Brock was locked it up too tight. I don't think the guy was gassed.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> 
> I think it was quite clear that he was - he could barely keep his hands up at the start of the 2nd, and twice Brock faked a TD and he didnt even react. These combined with the insane ease Brock took Carwin down with would suggest a fighter who had gassed out/given up.
> 
> A fighter would never stand in a post-fight interview and admit to having gassed. They are always more likely to praise their opponent.


----------



## Jebber

Dream-On-101 said:


> I think it was quite clear that he was - he could barely keep his hands up at the start of the 2nd, and twice Brock faked a TD and he didnt even react. These combined with the insane ease Brock took Carwin down with would suggest a fighter who had gassed out/given up.
> 
> A fighter would never stand in a post-fight interview and admit to having gassed. They are always more likely to praise their opponent.


He said he tightened up - that's Shane speak for gassing


----------



## jasvll

Calminian said:


> you try to fight a top 5 HW after major surgery. that's some serious trauma to the body. people are never the same after procedures like that. I think it's amazing what he did.


 Let me know when Lesnar tries that. There was no surgery for his diverticulitis.

Anyway, Lesnar reacted to the punches like he didn't want to get hit again, but even the ones that landed didn't knock his legs out from under him.. You can see him make the decision to drop to the ground defensively. Everyone else got knocked cold. Lesnar said ouch, that hurts, then submitted the guy. It takes balls to make fun of him for what happened in the first round. At least it would if it were done in person.


----------



## Inferno

*Shane Carwin Reacts to 1st Loss*

http://www.fightofthenight.com/news/shane-carwin-reacts-to-his-ufc-116-loss-to-brock-lesnar/

“I appreciate the out pouring of support and everyone who showed up at The Foundation Room last night after the fight. You guys know how to make a man feel like a winner even on his lowest of days. I really do want to thank #TeamCarwin. You guys pushed me up this mountain and many of you have been with me for a long time. I will need your help to climb back to the top so I appreciate you standing by.

_The game plan last night was to be patient and let the fight come to you. When I had him in trouble the ref keep saying he was going to stop it and then my body began to seize up. In between rounds I could not move my legs and had what felt like a I had a whole body cramp. My cardio was fine but my body was not. What can you do you have to stand up and face your opponent.

Heading into the second I knew I need to finish the fight or I was going to be in trouble. Much like the Champion he is I am sure Brock was thinking the same thing. I had zero take down defense as my legs were dead to me and the rest is as they say history.

Brock was a good guy through this entire fight. He did not talk a bunch of smack and he fought like a warrior. He did what he needed to do to keep his belt and that is what being a Champion is all about. I am going to have to claw my way back to the top but I wouldn’t want it any other way. I know I belong with the very best, all I need to do is prove it again.

Loosing is what happens on the way to winning. I will be back and better from the lessons learned in this fight.

Thank you to my Coaches, Sponsors, Manager, Family, Friends and Fans.

-Carwin”_


----------



## The505Butcher

Can not wait for the rematch! Anyone have Lesnar's post fight reaction/interview?


----------



## War

Carwin is a class act. I can't cheer him when he faces Brock but I can cheer him when he faces everybody else.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

I feel really bad for whoever Carwin's next opponent is. Hes going to be a complete animal next time around


----------



## Inferno

War said:


> Carwin is a class act. I can't cheer him when he faces Brock but I can cheer him when he faces everybody else.


----------



## Inferno




----------



## Spec0688

Carwin classy as always.

Lesnar had only his post fight conference comments, you can watch the video, or there is a article somewhere on here already.


----------



## Diokhan

Great show by Carwin. I still think that most of the time he is trying too hard to look like a nice guy though. Either way if we exclude Brock's ufc debut this is the toughest fight he has had so far and Im looking forward to see the brave man who dares to step up to face Carwin next.


----------



## jamlena

Good to see Brock finally showing some respect, good for him...awesome win


----------



## War

Those two videos show the growth not only of Brock Lesnar as a martial artist but also as a human being. If you ever wanted to see a turn around and watch as someone matured before you, that would be the culmination of it.

I honestly believe this is the start of Brock defending that championship for a long time.


----------



## Pretty Cool Guy

Shane brought out the best in Brock as a person. I loved the moment where Shane winked at Brock and Brock showed a huge smile between the first and second rounds. Brock shaking his hand and raising it together with his was a nice show of class as well. 

Shane did nothing but gain even more fans last night. Classy in victory and defeat. I'll definitely be looking forward to him KOing folks en route to another title shot.


----------



## FrodoFraggins

Classy post fight comments by both.

I don't think I understand why Carwins legs would seize up. Dead arms would make sense, but can anyone explain why his legs would go dead on him?


----------



## Spec0688

FrodoFraggins said:


> Classy post fight comments by both.
> 
> I don't think I understand why Carwins legs would seize up. Dead arms would make sense, but can anyone explain why his legs would go dead on him?


I dont know anything about this type of stuff but I will take a shot.

I think he was too emotionally attached to the fight, He might have gotten something similar to a anxiety attack when the ref started telling brock that he needed to work or he would call it. 

I think Carwin saw the light at the end of the tunnel a bit too early, and the emotions just came flooding in all at once. I really dont know, just taking a shot.


----------



## Killz

As a massive Shane carwin fan i was devastated when he lost, I seriously thought the ref should have stopped it when I watched it the first time.

However, I just watched it again and Brock did a great job of blocking the majority of carwins punches and I've got to say... Brock earned a new fan in me tonight. He looked great, he was humble in victory and most of all he fought back from the brink of a loss to prove why he is champion. 

I never ever thought I'd say that.


----------



## Inferno

Brock showed us he is a human being last night and triumphed in the the face of adversity, that will always be an endearing quality. Here is another new side note, it sounds like Carwin feels it should have been stopped.

http://mmajunkie.com/news/19814/car...-lesnar-praises-ref-for-not-halting-fight.mma

_
"I felt Brock go out a few times," he today told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com) via text message. "But it is the ref's job to call the fight, and mine is to finish the fight." 
_


----------



## Syxx Paq

The **** fight was rosenthall watching? i was watching the one where brock went into turtle mode and didnt do a damn thing other then fetal position.

I just knew somehow in my gut, that the ref not being Herb Dean was gonna affect the fight. well, lets hope Carwin gets the Shogun treatment, is given a rematch do to being screwed, and knocks the **** out of that idiot. UNTIL THEN... i guess hes the knew shogun. people's champ and all that. until the rematch, ra ra carwin, dont let anyone but herb dean ref a main event ever again, signed the world, kthxbai.


----------



## Spec0688

Inferno said:


> Brock showed us he is a human being last night and triumphed in the the face of adversity, that will always be an endearing quality. Here is another new side note, it sounds like Carwin feels it should have been stopped.
> 
> http://mmajunkie.com/news/19814/car...-lesnar-praises-ref-for-not-halting-fight.mma
> 
> _
> "I felt Brock go out a few times," he today told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com) via text message. "But it is the ref's job to call the fight, and mine is to finish the fight."
> _


So much for Carwin's humble defeat. You can clearly see that Brock NEVER 'went out' during the fight, He was constantly moving his body and blocking a majority of the wild punches with arms.

The only time I saw Brock kind of stiffen up is that upper cut, you can see his legs tense up a bit.


----------



## The Horticulturist

right........ he didn't do anything, until he stood up, took him back down, and submitted him.


----------



## Thelegend

sucks for carwin, the way he dominated the first and gassed to the loss is gonna sting for a while. but he didnt lose too much in terms of his standing in the ufc hw div, he will be back.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

jasvll said:


> Let me know when Lesnar tries that. There was no surgery for his diverticulitis.
> 
> Anyway, Lesnar reacted to the punches like he didn't want to get hit again, but even the ones that landed didn't knock his legs out from under him.. You can see him make the decision to drop to the ground defensively. Everyone else got knocked cold. Lesnar said ouch, that hurts, then submitted the guy. It takes balls to make fun of him for what happened in the first round. At least it would if it were done in person.



LOL. Look at my sig and tell me with a straight face that's dropping the ground defensively!

That going fetal and praying to God you survive.


----------



## Woodenhead

I totally agree with PheelGood. 99% of fights get stopped right there. Brock should thank the ref. Carwin won this fight in my mind.

Good to see Brock pull a sub tho - glad he's learning. Just gotta work on that awful stand-up.


----------



## JonCR96Z

PheelGoodInc said:


> LOL. Look at my sig and tell me with a straight face that's dropping the ground defensively!
> 
> That going fetal and praying to God you survive.


Your sig says that Lesnar has been exposed and I agree. Now everyone knows that Lesnar can take punches from one of the heaviest handed fighters in the UFC and still come back and win.


----------



## The Horticulturist

JonCR96Z said:


> Your sig says that Lesnar has been exposed and I agree. Now everyone knows that Lesnar can take punches from one of the heaviest handed fighters in the UFC and still come back and win.


I agree with this


I didn't realize until I saw this gif how little Carwin actually connected in this flurry, and how much of it was just Lesnar reacting uncomfortably. On the ground, it was a much different story though, some of those shots were brutal and Brock ate every one of them. Carwin was like Randleman in this fight.


----------



## Syxx Paq

SJ said:


> I agree with this


Anyone find it a little ironic that a shogun fan is apathetic towards a screwjob?


----------



## Majortom505

Inferno said:


> http://www.fightofthenight.com/news/shane-carwin-reacts-to-his-ufc-116-loss-to-brock-lesnar/
> 
> “I appreciate the out pouring of support and everyone who showed up at The Foundation Room last night after the fight. You guys know how to make a man feel like a winner even on his lowest of days. I really do want to thank #TeamCarwin. You guys pushed me up this mountain and many of you have been with me for a long time. I will need your help to climb back to the top so I appreciate you standing by.
> 
> _The game plan last night was to be patient and let the fight come to you. When I had him in trouble the ref keep saying he was going to stop it and then my body began to seize up. In between rounds I could not move my legs and had what felt like a I had a whole body cramp. My cardio was fine but my body was not. What can you do you have to stand up and face your opponent.
> 
> Heading into the second I knew I need to finish the fight or I was going to be in trouble. Much like the Champion he is I am sure Brock was thinking the same thing. I had zero take down defense as my legs were dead to me and the rest is as they say history.
> 
> Brock was a good guy through this entire fight. He did not talk a bunch of smack and he fought like a warrior. He did what he needed to do to keep his belt and that is what being a Champion is all about. I am going to have to claw my way back to the top but I wouldn’t want it any other way. I know I belong with the very best, all I need to do is prove it again.
> 
> Loosing is what happens on the way to winning. I will be back and better from the lessons learned in this fight.
> 
> Thank you to my Coaches, Sponsors, Manager, Family, Friends and Fans.
> 
> -Carwin”_


I thought Loosing was my waiter last night?


----------



## PheelGoodInc

JonCR96Z said:


> Your sig says that Lesnar has been exposed and I agree. Now everyone knows that Lesnar can take punches from one of the heaviest handed fighters in the UFC and still come back and win.


LOL. So thats his game plan now? Take a beating and hope that you can stay SLIGHTLY less gassed than his opponent? Let me know how that works out.


----------



## Jebber

what screwjob are you referring to?


----------



## Majortom505

FrodoFraggins said:


> Classy post fight comments by both.
> 
> I don't think I understand why Carwins legs would seize up. Dead arms would make sense, but can anyone explain why his legs would go dead on him?


The most likely cause was lack of oxygen,the second reason could be dehydration, and yes panic attack can't be ruled out either. IMO


----------



## 420atalon

PheelGoodInc said:


> LOL. Look at my sig and tell me with a straight face that's dropping the ground defensively!
> 
> That going fetal and praying to God you survive.


It is still defense... Some fights would be stopped like that IF the fighter went down because he was just rocked. Lesnar dropped down like that to protect himself and then was using his hands to protect his face and even his leg to keep Carwin from jumping on him in mount position. 

He was defending but it sure wasn't pretty. Had it of gone on for a little bit longer without Brock shooting the arm up or pushing Carwin away with his foot like he did then it would have been stopped but every time it came close to being stopped Lesnar did something, that is why it continued. 

I am actually impressed by the reffing as I hate it when the odd fight is stopped in a situation like this where the one fighter isn't seriously hurt. If they wanted to quit they would tap, if they are still trying to survive then let them and see if they can.


----------



## Rauno

How exactly was Brock exposed? He ate some very hard punches, it's not like Carwin's shots are weak.

Lesnar haters should really stop arguing about every thing and realize that he won this fight!


----------



## The Horticulturist

Syxx Paq said:


> Anyone find it a little ironic that a shogun fan is apathetic towards a screwjob?



Here is a quote of mine from before the fight



> Heart says Lesnar, Gut says Carwin, Odds say Lesnar, Stats say Carwin.
> 
> So, I want Brock to win, but it won't be something I gloat about because I like Carwin and his willingness to stand and trade a lot.


I am stoked Brock won and would be happy to see a rematch, because Brock will also be better next time. I feel for anyone to say he didn't deserve it is just silly, or else Nog should be the most hated fighter in MMA history. I walk away now and will watch this PPV over, and over and over again because every fight was awesome, ESPECIALLY this one.


----------



## Rauno

Both warriors are acting very humble and i love it.


----------



## Syxx Paq

i love how the loser of this fight got submission of the night, over all the beautiful subs just because it was the main event. Here i was thinking logically, a mounted triangle arm bar HAS to get SOTN. shows what i know, thinking.


----------



## Freiermuth

I think the reffing/non-stoppage was fine. Didn't even cross my mind till I came to the forums. Can you hear what the ref was saying at all?


----------



## MrObjective

Rauno™ said:


> Both warriors are acting very humble and i love it.


Same here. Uhhhh, humility.


----------



## Leed

PheelGoodInc said:


> LOL. So thats his game plan now? Take a beating and hope that you can stay SLIGHTLY less gassed than his opponent? Let me know how that works out.



Well, obviously worked if he's the UFC HW champ... :confused02:


----------



## Freiermuth

Leed said:


> Well, obviously worked if he's the UFC HW champ... :confused02:


Big Nog had a good run doing that, but at Brocks age he probably shouldn't do that again.


----------



## jasvll

PheelGoodInc said:


> LOL. Look at my sig and tell me with a straight face that's dropping the ground defensively!
> 
> That going fetal and praying to God you survive.


Look at it again. He's not knocked silly. He just doesn't like being hit and reacts exactly how I said he did.


----------



## BobbyCooper

I'm glad Brock got it done! He's a great Champion.

Carwin as the HW Champ.. Nah thanks I pass.


----------



## The Horticulturist

Woah I am watching the fight in HQ, and Carwin hardly hurt Brock on the feet or against the cage at all, it was all on the ground, and even then most of it was blocked. Also, Brocks scrambled to his feet and was controlling at the end of the round, so I don't see what anyones argument for it being stopped are. He quite simply won the fight, but he needs big improvements like everyone with a brain already knew.

Brock needs more confidence and to learn to not turn away from opponents, that would help him quite a bit..


----------



## No_Mercy

SJ said:


> Woah I am watching the fight in HQ, and Carwin hardly hurt Brock on the feet or against the cage at all, it was all on the ground, and even then most of it was blocked. Also, Brocks scrambled to his feet and was controlling at the end of the round, so I don't see what anyones argument for it being stopped are. He quite simply won the fight, but he needs big improvements like everyone with a brain already knew.
> 
> Brock needs more confidence and to learn to not turn away from opponents, that would help him quite a bit..


Oh I'm pretty sure Brock got hurt. It's just that his head is like a ball-point hammer. Did you see or HEAR that elbow Carwin dropped right on Brock's right cheek bone. But yes a good majority of the shots were blocked by his huge tree trunk arms. Again any other opponent would have tapped out. Carwin should have picked his shots rather than blow his load.


----------



## HaVoK

The505Butcher said:


> Can not wait for the rematch! Anyone have Lesnar's post fight reaction/interview?


www.ufc.com


----------



## zkorejo

All the people here whining about this epic match being "a screwjob" are idiots! The match did not stop and it continued because brock was not knocked out TKO'd or out cold. If that would be the case, he would have never been able to come back and win in the second round. Thats just not possible for a person who was finished in the first round to stand up, get ready and win the match.

This strategy of Brock's may sound stupid to some of you, because it sounds stupid being beaten just to wait for ure opponent to gas out. But Carwin had never been to the second round Lesnar knew it. so this strategy proved to be successful! 

And this match proved that IF all Carwin's other matches would have gone to the second round.. he might not have been undefeated or been an interim champion in the first place. 

Yes! Brock WAS exposed! BUT so was Carwin! This match shows that *NOT* everybody goes down and out as soon as his fists connects. Lesnar was the better man because he made Carwin tapout. 

Lesnar haters just need reasons to hate him. I understand that. But please dont spoil this awesome heavyweight fight by calling it a screwjob.

P.S. If the ref. would have stopped this match at that point, THAT would have been a "Screwjob"! Because now we all know Lesnar was not out, he came back in the second round and won the match via submission.


----------



## HaVoK

Majortom505 said:


> The most likely cause was lack of oxygen,the second reason could be dehydration, and yes panic attack can't be ruled out either. IMO


Indeed, even when Carwin was throwing power shots he was stiff. Who can blame the guy. That much muscle requires a ton of oxygen and when the oxygen is depleted lactic acid builds up. His legs and shoulders were probably on fire and felt very heavy and non-responsive. It eventually happens to anyone who competes. No amount of training can prepare you for such things. No matter how hard you train it is still nothing like a fight. It explains why so many guys are absolute studs in the gym but can never make that carry over into a fight. It takes a special athlete to do that. The only way to learn how to offset such things from happening is for it to happen to you in a fight. You then learn how to deal with it and fight more relaxed. Being able to relax in a fight is the most important thing. It seems Brock has found out he can do that. I expect big things from the UFC's HW division.


----------



## Woodenhead

Plenty of other fights have been stopped similarly. Anyways, it's a Brock win regardless.

He's def. been exposed as having little boxing skill though. And I've seen videos of gang beatings where the 1 guy on the ground getting kicked by 10 others is defending himself more intelligently than Brock did for the first while (until Carwin gassed. lol cardio).

In Carwin's defense, I imagine he just kept aimlessly pounding because he could hear the ref saying "I'm gonna stop it!" Not very smart. But I can understand it.


----------



## michelangelo

His cornerman called him out big time in between rounds: "STOP RUNNING!"

It's easy to say, but when you're getting tagged with those giant fists, it's a little different. 

The smoke will clear in another 3-4 months: we'll have a better opportunity to see where Brock is at. Ring rust won't be a factor at all in his next fight. 



SJ said:


> Woah I am watching the fight in HQ, and Carwin hardly hurt Brock on the feet or against the cage at all, it was all on the ground, and even then most of it was blocked. Also, Brocks scrambled to his feet and was controlling at the end of the round, so I don't see what anyones argument for it being stopped are. He quite simply won the fight, but he needs big improvements like everyone with a brain already knew.
> 
> Brock needs more confidence and to learn to not turn away from opponents, that would help him quite a bit..


----------



## Sousa

lol @ PheelGoodInc


----------



## zkorejo

LMAO! yeah and Rogan always.. ALWAYS says : "Brock Lesner is a Dangerous man!" i guess he is scared of BL. 

After Lesner wins his next fight, I want to see him put his mouth piece in Rogan's pants.. lol


----------



## John8204

Joe makes his feelings on Brock very clear in his act


----------



## Wookie

That was ridiculous the fight should've been stopped in the first. Brock wasn't defending himself and anybody that says he was is full of it. Brock should donate half his purse to the referee for giving him the fight.


----------



## coldcall420

If Carwin steped a half step back and opened that range when he had Brock on the ground I think the shots would have done some more damage and the ref might have stopped it...


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> If Carwin steped a half step back and opened that range when he had Brock on the ground I think the shots would have done some more damage and the ref might have stopped it...


Probably true, Carwin looked like he was throwing for the ref to stop it, not to knock Lesnar out imo.


----------



## BobbyCooper

coldcall420 said:


> If Carwin steped a half step back and opened that range when he had Brock on the ground I think the shots would have done some more damage and the ref might have stopped it...


Yea, Carwin should have payed attention to where he actually hits Brock. Most of those blows went directly to Brocks colossal arms. He lost that fight himself..


----------



## zkorejo

Ref stoppage, just because brock wasnt defending himself would have made this match look stupid. Such a BIG fight ending that way would have sucked, this match HAD to end more decisively than that. I am happy with the ref's decision to continue the match. 

Carwin SHOULD have knocked Brock out when he had a chance in the first round to win the match, to win the title and to retain his "undefeated, and ends fight in 1st round" label. 

Bottomline is, he did not and Brock Lesnar DID make him submit. end of the story. Lesnar was the better man and Im sure even Carwin agrees with that.


----------



## coldcall420

BobbyCooper said:


> Yea, Carwin should have payed attention to where he actually hits Brock. Most of those blows went directly to Brocks colossal arms. He lost that fight himself..


Hopefully they get to fight again....I dont see Cain doing shit to Brock....


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> Hopefully they get to fight again....I dont see Cain doing shit to Brock....


Second this, Cain doesn't hit nearly as hard and he's a lot smaller. Honestly I think Carwin is the only guy with a chance against Brock, he's the only one big enough that hits hard enough to finish Brock. Everyone else will just get taken down and smothered into a sub or TKO.


----------



## coldcall420

*Brock Lesnar 101: What Did We Learn About UFC Heavyweight Champion?*

http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/07/...hat-did-we-learn-about-ufc-heavyweight-champ/



> Okay, so maybe that's not exactly how Brock Lesnar's team drew it up. Odds are they didn't plan to have their fighter take a beating for the entire first round just to tire Shane Carwin out. If they did, Lesnar should fire his trainers and hire people with a little more regard for keeping his blood on the inside of his body.
> 
> But despite the rough start at UFC 116 on Saturday night, Lesnar showed a lot of grit in lasting through the early trouble to submit Carwin with a second-round arm triangle to retain the UFC heavyweight championship.
> 
> Beyond just providing a frantic few minutes worth of entertainment, the fight also gave us the chance to learn a little bit more about the man who may be one of the best fighters we've seen the least of in the cage. Below, five of the most valuable lessons gleaned from Lesnar's latest title defense.
> 
> *1. He can take a punch, but he's not immune to them*
> When you have a neck like Lesnar's – which is to say, when you don't have much of a neck at all – you have a biological advantage that allows you to absorb punches more easily than the average man. Even so, Carwin rocked Lesnar early on and had him doing the chicken dance in the first round. That tells us that Lesnar is just as knockout-able as any mortal. The fact that he survived that near finish to come back strong just a few minutes later, well, that tells us that whoever wants to beat him with strikes is going to have to do it via accumulation, and they'd better pace themselves better than Carwin did.
> 
> 
> Share28
> *2. He knows his way around a submission*
> He's not going to win any no-gi grappling championships, but Lesnar sure looked surprisingly comfortable slapping an arm triangle on Carwin and then patiently tightening it for the finish. That tells us that he knows at least one submission move, and that he's confident enough in his skills to go for it right away when he sees the opening. Lesnar was dangerous enough when you just had to worry about him taking you down and hitting you with those cinder blocks on the ends of his arms. Now that he's got a little jiu-jitsu in his arsenal, he has two ways to threaten you on the mat.
> 
> *3. He learned both heel and face moves in his pro wrestling days*
> If the chorus of boos every time he shows up on the screen didn't clue you in, Lesnar has a talent for alienating people. Maybe it's the crew cut. Maybe it's the way he spits his words into the mic, making it sound like he's cutting a WWE promo even when he's thanking God. Whatever it is, he's always come off as a guy who would rather eat people than be around them. And yet, he managed to sound humble and not at all abrasive in his post-fight remarks, even avoiding the temptation to threaten his wife with sexual intercourse this time around. Almost makes you wonder if this is a calculated face turn. Or, more likely, a genuine personality change brought on by a serious illness.
> 
> *4. His stand-up game is still a major question mark*
> Lesnar may have spent only a few brief minutes on his feet in his whole MMA career, but he hasn't looked comfortable for very many of them. His long arms and enormous fists were enough to carry him when he was fighting smaller or slower fighters, but that won't work against everyone. He's too easy to hit, has too many holes in his defense, and one gets the sense that a quicker, more explosive striker with good takedown defense (Cain Velasquez, perhaps?) could really exploit that weakness if he doesn't fix it fast.
> 
> *5. He might not be the best fighter, but he's the best-biggest*
> I realize that probably looks like a typo, so let me explain. Skill-for-skill, Lesnar is not so awe-inspiring. If he were a 6'0", 240-pound heavyweight, he probably wouldn't be champ. Instead he'd be a great wrestler with unpolished striking skills and questionable taste in tattoos. But since he is so very big and so very strong, while also possessing surprising agility and speed for his size, he dominates smaller heavyweights. In other words, Brock Lesnar is champ in part because he was born Brock Lesnar. That doesn't diminish his accomplishments one bit, but it does make you wonder what would happen if an even bigger, stronger, faster new kid moved into the neighborhood. If Lesnar had to win on technique alone, without major physical advantages, could he do it? Since we may or may not ever get the chance to find out, maybe the better question is, does it even matter?


Good Read...Thoughts???


----------



## coldcall420

*Lesnar vs. Carwin Delivers as Both Men Gamble in Pursuit of Gold*

http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/07/...livers-as-both-men-gamble-in-pursuit-of-gold/




> *Lesnar vs. Carwin Delivers as Both Men Gamble in Pursuit of Gold*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LAS VEGAS -- Shane Carwin was so close. Maybe all he needed was one more punch, a few more seconds, or a different referee. Any one of the three might have resulted in a new champion being crowned.
> 
> He rocked Brock Lesnar, he put him on his back, he rained down strikes. They came in a wave, one after the other, 47 in all in a hellacious first-round beating that had ref Josh Rosenthal intently watching the action for a possible stoppage. We were all waiting for it, after all, that's what Carwin does. He finishes, and he finishes quick. For Lesnar, it must have felt like a barrage. For Carwin, it must have felt like an eternity. He had the champion on the ropes, and he went for it.
> 
> It was not to be. In a match fitting of the championship belt contested, Carwin and Lesnar put on a classic display of grit, guts and determination at UFC 116 that stamped Lesnar as the sport's best heavyweight. But Carwin should return home with no regrets about a performance that would have finished every heavyweight in the world except for one.
> 
> Unbeaten in 12 fights prior to Saturday's main event, Carwin became renown for his finishing instinct, closing out every single one of his bouts inside of the first round. Against Lesnar, it seemed like the same script would play out. Carwin dominated the standup, punishing Lesnar with strikes and hurting him against the fence with lefts. Soon, Lesnar was on his back.
> 
> 
> Share6
> It was here where Carwin had a decision to make. Go for broke, or pace himself.
> 
> He chose the former. Carwin's right hand was like a jackhammer, trying desperately to break through Lesnar's defenses. It was an overwhelming attack, a blitzkrieg, or some natural disaster.
> 
> "Hurricane Katrina," Brock Lesnar said in characterizing it. "He hit me pretty good. I didn't know where I was for a second. I had to go into survival mode for a second."
> 
> Here's where the referee comes in. UFC president Dana White said that before the fight, he complained to Zuffa co-owner Lorenzo Fertitta about Josh Rosenthal being assigned the match. He'd hoped for Herb Dean, who he calls "the best referee in the history of the world."
> 
> Rosenthal looked the situation over, Carwin slamming down fists and elbows, and Lesnar covering up, and he let them go. Cuts on Lesnar's face leaked blood. Carwin soldiered on and Lesnar tried to show enough movement to illustrate intelligent defense. For a long, tense stretch, it seemed like the end was moments away. But Rosenthal never saw the moment when Lesnar was helpless.
> 
> "I got to say, Josh Rosenthal did a great job, and I want to apologize for badmouthing him before he did anything wrong," White said to a laugh afterward.
> 
> Carwin has to wonder if things would have been different if someone else was the third man in the cage. Would Steve Mazzagatti have stopped it? Mario Yamasaki? Maybe even Dean?
> 
> But as far as his own performance, Carwin has nothing to apologize for. He did what a fighter is supposed to do when he has an opponent in trouble. He swarmed. Even under the risk of blowing his energy reserves in one round, he went for it. He didn't take the cautious round, didn't hold anything back. He saw his opportunity and he put everything he had into finishing.
> 
> Lesnar, too, deserves a great deal of credit for a risky decision of his own. He's made a living hanging out in half-guard and pounding his opponent from the position. This time, he advanced to full mount. He could have easily gone for a ground-and-pound stoppage. Instead, the fighter without a submission to his name gambled, trying the arm triangle. It was a bold call, as one of the most common escapes from the arm triangle leads to your opponent taking your back.
> 
> Like Carwin, though, he saw an opening and he went for it, no hesitation, no regret. But Lesnar found a way to finish. He squeezed for an eternity, re-adjusted, squeezed again. And finally, finally, Carwin tapped.
> 
> "We suspected he'd be prepared for ground and pound, and [jiu-jitsu coach] Comprido [Medeiros] pointed this sub out," Lesnar said. "He said it's feasible."
> 
> The two heavyweights may take some criticism for their fight. Some may say that Lesnar had more holes exposed in his standup and defense off his back. Others might say Carwin ran out of gas (for the record, he suffered from bad cramping between rounds).
> 
> But what I saw is two fighters who did what they were supposed to do: they didn't play it cautious or conservative. They didn't try to rack up points or look for a decision. When winning time came, they tried to seize the moment. Even though Carwin came up short, he deserves a tremendous amount of credit for risking his late-round stamina for what might have been his best opportunity of the fight. And even more credit goes to Lesnar, who's comeback finish was, dare we say it, worthy of a WWE script.
> 
> But this gold belt wasn't given to him. This one was earned.


 
Another good read.....:thumbsup:


----------



## Thelegend

-When you have a neck like Lesnar's – which is to say, when you don't have much of a neck at all

lots of lulz there and good points overall, i for one was surprised that brock and his stand-up seemed so off that night. he isn't invincible, and he sure isn't unbeatable. he needs to keep pushing his game forward. the fact that he has another undefeated heavyweight to prepare for next should motivate him to further that wealth of natural talent he already posses.-my two cents lol.


----------



## zkorejo

> 3. *He learned both heel and face moves in his pro wrestling days*If the chorus of boos every time he shows up on the screen didn't clue you in, Lesnar has a talent for alienating people. Maybe it's the crew cut. Maybe it's the way he spits his words into the mic, making it sound like he's cutting a WWE promo even when he's thanking God. Whatever it is, he's always come off as a guy who would rather eat people than be around them. And yet, he managed to sound humble and not at all abrasive in his post-fight remarks, even avoiding the temptation to threaten his wife with sexual intercourse this time around. Almost makes you wonder if this is a calculated face turn. Or, more likely, a genuine personality change brought on by a serious illness.


I still remember, when Brock was in WWE he was very bad at mic skills. Paul heyman had to be his mouth-piece. Lesnar was never very good at cutting promo's, that was his only weak point.

Lesnar is not a good actor. He says what he wants to say. Mir's words provoked him before the match and Lesnar just reacted after he beat him. and he flipped at fans because i think he felt they were favouring Mir even when Frank Mir was the one who started all the hate. He was treated as if he was unwanted and a bad guy.. so he just turned into that. Any other fighter with some self respect would have done the same.

As far as UFC 116 goes, I think he was not faking when he thanked God. The day when fan's start respecting him he will stop being a bad guy.. its that simple.


----------



## Spec0688

good read. I found it funny that me mentions 'Carwin suffered from cramps between rounds' , like that was the main reason he lost.


----------



## Spec0688

*That doesn't diminish his accomplishments one bit, but it does make you wonder what would happen if an even bigger, stronger, faster new kid moved into the neighborhood. If Lesnar had to win on technique alone, without major physical advantages, could he do it?*

wasnt that supposed to be Carwin? The one who is just as big, potentially just as strong as Lesnar? Carwin was supposed to answer these questions...of course not the agility part.


----------



## michelangelo

I watched the fight again, and it's pretty clear (what isn't in retrospect?) that Shane was gassed a minute and a half into the first and wasn't going to win the fight no matter what. 

His punches by that point were all being delivered to Brock's arms, and were thrown it seems, more to try to get the ref to stop the fight than to inflict damage.

Activity =/= damage.*

Brock scrambled, got back to his feet, landed a big knee and continued to drain Carwin's gas tank. 

By the start of the second, Carwin had nothing left...



*_This was my problem with the Edgar BJ decision: Edgar was busy, but didn't seem to landing damaging shots. _


----------



## joey__stalin

First it's Cro Cop via RNC and now Lesnar vis Arm Triangle... what alternate reality have I crossed over into?


----------



## Kasporelli

*Shane Carwin: "Congrats to Brock"*

He showed the heart of a Champion last night. Most men would fold under that kind of pressure. 

I really appreciate all the support and messages. I am honored to have had the chance to fight for the belt and will be working my ass off to get another shot. 

There are a lot of deserving fighters out there and now it is Cain's turn to see what he can do. I will be back in the mix soon enough.

As for my health, I am good. My body began to seize up towards the end of the 1st and it was totally locked up in between rounds. I told my Coaches I could not move my legs. I have never felt like that before in my life. I had to answer the bell so I did what I could do and went out like any warrior would do and tried to fight through it.

Being a Champion is about living and fighting through adversity. Brock Lesnar has done jsut that, not only in coming back to submit me but throughout his medical struggles too. I hope I can earn another shot someday.

For me I am going to do a signing today and then head home to be with my family and spend a little quality time on the lakes in my Malibu Boat. It has been a long camp and a even longer set of camps waiting for this fight. I need a rest.

Thank you to my coaches, sponsors and manager for everything you have done and continue to do for me. You guys have made this a fun journey and one I would travel anytime.

My goal is to win the UFC Heavyweight Title, I want to be the best fighter on the planet. I will be working hard and doing everything I need to do to earn that title.

For now I will settle for loving father, husband and loyal friend...

-Carwin 

The guys got some good karma coming his way:thumbsup:


----------



## mastodon2222

*Lesnar is a really, really bad boxer*

He looked like awful on his feet. I don't think I've seen an MMA fighter look so bad as a boxer- closed his eyes, looked away, no boxing skills whatsoever. He is the best there is in the HW division on the ground, but he's got a major weakness on his feet, and some day there are going to be fighters come along who are his size who are world clas strikers who will dethrone him... a 250 lb Anderson Silva type would pick him apart.


----------



## _RIVAL_

With all due respect a 250 lb Anderson would pick anybody apart.


----------



## JesusishoruS

Not sure, but I think he was giving a little respect to the power across from him in the octagon that had knocked out every one of his previous opponents in the first round.


----------



## osmium




----------



## mastodon2222

Spec0688 said:


> *That doesn't diminish his accomplishments one bit, but it does make you wonder what would happen if an even bigger, stronger, faster new kid moved into the neighborhood. If Lesnar had to win on technique alone, without major physical advantages, could he do it?*
> 
> wasnt that supposed to be Carwin? The one who is just as big, potentially just as strong as Lesnar? Carwin was supposed to answer these questions...of course not the agility part.


Carwin was obviously nervous as he gassed out after 2 minutes. If he could've kept his composure and pick his shots when he has Lesnar on his back he would've finished him.


----------



## _RIVAL_

osmium said:


>


That is a savage. I really hope his blackhouse BJJ and wrestling is progressing.


----------



## Indestructibl3

What a great man, he'll be back. Much repsect and love for Carwin


----------



## mastodon2222

Lesnar's obviously got holes in his game, and unless he really works on his stand up--he doesn't need to box like Lennox Lewis--but he's got to get good enough where he can defend himself on his feet without getting panicky and going into his shell. If he does that, he can stay on top of the division. If not, I don't think he'll become one of the all time greats, and I see him having a career record of 20-8 or something when the new breed of all around fighters starts coming up over the next 5-10 years.


----------



## CFT_Ian

Another good find. I'll +rep you as soon as it lets me =)


----------



## LiteGladiator

I'm pretty sure that is most people's reaction when they get hit by Shane Carwin, cover, cry, and run. But he didn't go out and he didn't lose, so massive props to him.


----------



## michelangelo

Frank Mur stood his ground and look what happened to him.


----------



## MikeHawk

michelangelo said:


> Frank Mur stood his ground and look what happened to him.


What? He rocked Lesnar standing then got pounded out on the ground? All that does is prove the OP's point.


----------



## Inferno

My thoughts are this is the first time in his LIFE... he has ever gotten smashed hard in the face, and he turtled a bit. The first time ever guys, if you are a fighter, you know that happens to almost everyone the first time. Now that he got through that, he will not be so caught off guard the next time it happens. 

Everyone reacts different, there are tons of great fighters who will never achieve greatness because they don't deal well with getting hit. I think Brock showed us he can get hit and still compete. He is only going to get better and I would be willing to bet his boxing is far better than what we witnessed last night.

Brock is going to be an elite heavyweight for the next 6-10yrs, he very well could go down as one of the greats, these are exciting times. I for one am glad we get to watch the Vanilla Gorilla evolve, we can only hope another freak beast with his size and athleticism is out there feeding somewhere as we speak.


----------



## Jefferson10

Im pretty sure Lesnar rocked Randy Couture and Heath Herring while standing with them. You saying Brock has bad standup, you will have to say the Randy and Heath have worse then...


----------



## Wombatsu

i thought his standup was below par but being that big and powerful he doesnt need the best boxing to win fights. He will use his wrestling and his size and power to win most fights anyhow. But yes a JDS or Cain may be an outside chance if they can land enough accurate punches and not get taken down at the same time.........which is a big ask.


----------



## boatoar

Now that I'm over my initial upset reaction to the result of this fight I can enjoy the fact that I got to see it happen.

I had some cheddar on Carwin on this one, actually the most I've ever bet on one fight, and it hurt to lose when I was confident of a Carwin victory. I figured a year off, best camp or not for Brock mixed in with some devastating shots from Shane would translate to Brock being out cold.

Shane couldn't do that, Brock is a monster, and came back amazingly in that second round. I LOVED the interviews Ariel Helwani did with the old WWE guys (stone cold, goldberg, jim ross, paul hayman) after the fact. That was priceless. They were all so proud of him. It was hard for me to stay mad after seeing that. Hats off to both guys. 

I hope JDS vs. Big Country is just as exciting? LOL...could happen you know. JDS dominates Big Country for the first round, somehow tubby doesn't get TKO'd and comes back with a slick submission in the second. 

Haha, I bet that WILL happen now.


----------



## raymel1

Props to Carwin, he's a great man and a great fighter.

Brock Lesnar is a BEAST that nobody has a leash for in the UFC.


----------



## HexRei

^^^^yeah, peops to carwin. peops


----------



## No_Mercy

boatoar said:


> Now that I'm over my initial upset reaction to the result of this fight I can enjoy the fact that I got to see it happen.
> 
> I had some cheddar on Carwin on this one, actually the most I've ever bet on one fight, and it hurt to lose when I was confident of a Carwin victory. I figured a year off, best camp or not for Brock mixed in with some devastating shots from Shane would translate to Brock being out cold.
> 
> Shane couldn't do that, Brock is a monster, and came back amazingly in that second round. I LOVED the interviews Ariel Helwani did with the old WWE guys (stone cold, goldberg, jim ross, paul hayman) after the fact. That was priceless. They were all so proud of him. It was hard for me to stay mad after seeing that. Hats off to both guys.
> 
> I hope JDS vs. Big Country is just as exciting? LOL...could happen you know. JDS dominates Big Country for the first round, somehow tubby doesn't get TKO'd and comes back with a slick submission in the second.
> 
> Haha, I bet that WILL happen now.


Don't worry you're not the only one...haha. Lost two bets. But I take solace in seeing that Carwin gave him a good ol fashion ass whoopin' for the first round...

But damn...I'm still stunned and I'm sure Carwin is too that Brock took it and was able to stand up. Titanium head with super human strength makes for an intriguing fighter. Cain has a tall mountain to climb.


----------



## The Legacy

Wow.

Huge props to Brock for being the first person to take Carwin's punches and come back to win. I thought it was all over when Carwin was unloading punch after punch on Brock but somehow he managed to survive while Carwin run out of gas. 

It was pretty amazing to see Brock being bullied around the cage in that first round as well. Who knew that was possible? 

And then the way the fight ended, good to see that Brock has implemented submissions into his already devastating top control game. 

After the way this fight went down, I would be very intrigued to see Lesnar vs. Carwin II at some point. For now, Brock has to get past Cain Velasquez. 

Cain has technically better hands than Carwin although obviously he doesn't have the raw power and size. Cain will also come with the cardio to go into the championship rounds. I'm already looking forward to it.


----------



## IllegalLegKick

*Do people still doubt Lesnar's chin?*

Alot of people have come to respect Brock after his fight with Carwin but as always there will be doubter. I'd just like to add my two cents to the debate, well here goes.

First off I think we can all agree that Carwin is the heaviest hitter in the sport, right? I've re-watched the fight and Brock took an absolute pounding in the first round. Starting with a big knee to the face Brock took quite a few more shots before retreating back to the fence, I might add much like Stephan Bonnar in his fight with Krzysztof Soszynski. Brock then went down and took the pounding of his lifetime from someone who we all probably agree is the heavest hitter in MMA.

To take that beating for about half the round and still be able to defend himself and then even get back up is pretty astonishing if you ask me. Ever other fighter Carwin has faced has been finished in about a minute Brock took it for three times as long and still managed to win the fight. I'd say thats a serious chin if you ask me and to hear people say he was running scared as well, I've seen many great fighters tap from a lot less punishment than Brock took. 

I hope we can all keep this a mature debate I just wanted to add my thoughts on the fight and how Lesnar handled things.


----------



## Kodiac26170

I have read a couple of posts on here since the fight that say Brock cannot take a punch. I think he may take a punch better than just about any man alive. Carwin puts people to sleep with ease, he hit Brock with everything he had and couldnt finish him. Those punches would have probably killed alot of men. I dont think we will ever see Lesnar knocked out, I have been wrong before though.


In Post fight interview Dana said Carwin was on his way to the hospital.....What for?


----------



## marcthegame

Brock's chin really only got tested this once and he covered up well. It is to early to say he has a granite chin. In MIr-VS Brock one MIr took some heavy shots but after that fight his chin is broken.


----------



## IllegalLegKick

Kodiac26170 said:


> In Post fight interview Dana said Carwin was on his way to the hospital.....What for?


http://www.fightofthenight.com/news/shane-carwin-reacts-to-his-ufc-116-loss-to-brock-lesnar/


----------



## MikeHawk

I didn't see Carwin land any flush shots. But, I could care less about Brock's chin. 
What's more interesting to me, is how he reacts when he gets hit. Every time we've seen him get hit with something decent he turtles up and looks lost.
He's gonna be in trouble if he does that against Cain or JDS


----------



## Thunder1

Sure I still question is chin. The one thing I don't doubt is how scared he is to get puched. Watch the replay before he goes down. Tell me that doesn't look like a high school kid that's never been in a fight. AND HE'S the best in the world. He won't know what to make of James "THE TOOL" Toney if that guy ever figures out how to stuff a takedown.


----------



## UKMMAGURU

I'm not really a Lesnar fan, and i agree Brock looks more uncomfortbale than most when getting tagged, but he without any doubt in my mind has a very solid chin, few if any could take what carwin dished out on saturday.


----------



## IllegalLegKick

Thunder1 said:


> Sure I still question is chin. The one thing I don't doubt is how scared he is to get puched. Watch the replay before he goes down. Tell me that doesn't look like a high school kid that's never been in a fight. AND HE'S the best in the world. He won't know what to make of James "THE TOOL" Toney if that guy ever figures out how to stuff a takedown.


I'd have to disagree about him not knowing how to take a shot, he took shots from Randy, Heath and Frank. Maybe not many but he took some and didn't turtle up. Like I said before Carwin is an animal, he hits like a freight train when he fights guys like Cain and JDS it won't be the same as being hit by Carwin. What I think is that Brock needs to realize his ability to take a shot and stay in the pocket and give them back.


----------



## Thunder1

"What I think is that Brock needs to realize his ability to take a shot and stay in the pocket and give them back."

Maybe that's what I'm trying to say.


----------



## Thunder1

"In Post fight interview Dana said Carwin was on his way to the hospital.....What for?"

Probably to make sure the lack of blood supply to the brain during the choke didn't cause any other internal damage.


----------



## freakshowexcess

Thunder1 said:


> Sure I still question is chin. The one thing I don't doubt is how scared he is to get puched. Watch the replay before he goes down. Tell me that doesn't look like a high school kid that's never been in a fight. AND HE'S the best in the world.*He won't know what to make of James "THE TOOL" Toney if that guy ever figures out how to stuff a takedown.*


To be fair, a whole lot of people would be in trouble if Toney could stuff a takedown. 

After the fight on saturday, I'd say Lesnar has a solid chin, and he definitely has heart. I think he will also learn that he doesn't need to go into panic mode whenever he is hit with a solid shot. That's just something that comes with experience.


----------



## Fedorbator

IllegalLegKick said:


> To take that beating for about half the round and still be able to defend himself and then even get back up is pretty astonishing if you ask me.


Doesn't sound like you actually saw the fight. Try the entire first round and defended unintelligibly by curling up to fetile position for 2 mins.


----------



## Budhisten

Kodiac26170 said:


> In Post fight interview Dana said Carwin was on his way to the hospital.....What for?


Well his hands were obviously gone, that's pretty serious


----------



## Soojooko

Ok, so people who have been hit by Carwin are split into two categories:-

#1 - They go to sleep. This is pretty much everybody.

#2 - They react like a little girl and turtle up. eg Brock.


Now, I'm no fighter, but #2 sounds a bit more productive if you ask me.


----------



## G_Land

I dont think anybody can stand there and trade with Carwin. Carwin would put cabbage to sleep with that right hand


----------



## Danm2501

Frank Mir fits #2 I think. Should be a 3rd category which is:

#3 - They react like a girl, and curl up but from there intelligently defend themselves, survive the round, and inevitably pull out the win.

Mir just covered up and started crying, so the ref jumped in, saved him and ended the fight. Brock was defending himself, making it clear to the ref he was still in it and that the fight didn't need to be stopped. I'm no fighter either, but I'd rather have the chin and heart to survive like Lesnar than get the shit kicked out of me before giving up like Mir.


----------



## IllegalLegKick

Fedorbator said:


> Doesn't sound like you actually saw the fight. Try the entire first round and defended unintelligibly by curling up to fetile position for 2 mins.


If you factor in that they started standing up Carwin stopped in half guard for a little while and then started the ground and pound again, then Lesnar got to his feet and had Carwin up against the cage. He was actually taking shots for about half the round......


----------



## MikeHawk

G_Land said:


> I dont think anybody can stand there and trade with Carwin. Carwin would put cabbage to sleep with that right hand


Haha, I really wanna see Cabbage try to take a Carwin bomb now. Something tells me Cabbage would still be standing. The dudes just a zombie.


----------



## Soojooko

Danm2501 said:


> Frank Mir fits #2 I think. Should be a 3rd category which is:
> 
> #3 - They react like a girl, and curl up but from there intelligently defend themselves, survive the round, and inevitably pull out the win.
> 
> Mir just covered up and started crying, so the ref jumped in, saved him and ended the fight. Brock was defending himself, making it clear to the ref he was still in it and that the fight didn't need to be stopped. I'm no fighter either, but I'd rather have the chin and heart to survive like Lesnar than get the shit kicked out of me before giving up like Mir.


I was just trying to make the point that any reaction to getting blasted is better than getting knocked the feck out. I really dont see why all this fuss is being made about Brocks soft reaction as if its somehow worse than laying there twitching with wonky eyeballs.


----------



## Dream-On-101

The punches that Carwin landed on Brock, including the onslaught that took place once the fight hit the ground, would have finished ANYONE else in the HW division. Carwin KO's people without even winding up the punches. Brock took a solid couple of shots and could still function - this says alot. 

The aspect that Brock needs to work on is not his chin per se, as it is clear that he has a solid one. A very solid one. Rather he needs to work on the psychology of being hit with a solid punch, and not shying away from it. I happen to think the main reason Brocks boxing looked poor was because he was scared of being hit. A lot of it is confidence - how can he not have confidence in his chin and heart after taking a shot from the beast that is Carwin and surviving? The other aspect is experience, which will naturally come with time. 

THIS WAS ONLY HIS 6TH FIGHT EVER PEOPLE!

I doubt Brock will ever be knocked clean out in the Octagon. In fact, i sincerely doubt he will be defeated for a very long time.


----------



## G_Land

MikeHawk said:


> Haha, I really wanna see Cabbage try to take a Carwin bomb now. Something tells me Cabbage would still be standing. The dudes just a zombie.


 
I dont think they would let somebody get murdered on tv lol. But back in the day MAYBE cabbage could take a couple but it would be like watching a car wreak


----------



## Soojooko

Dream-On-101 said:


> The punches that Carwin landed on Brock, including the onslaught that took place once the fight hit the ground, would have finished ANYONE else in the HW division. Carwin KO's people without even winding up the punches. Brock took a solid couple of shots and could still function - this says alot.
> 
> The aspect that Brock needs to work on is not his chin per se, as it is clear that he has a solid one. A very solid one. Rather he needs to work on the psychology of being hit with a solid punch, and not shying away from it. I happen to think the main reason Brocks boxing looked poor was because he was scared of being hit. A lot of it is confidence - how can he not have confidence in his chin and heart after taking a shot from the beast that is Carwin and surviving? The other aspect is experience, which will naturally come with time.
> 
> THIS WAS ONLY HIS 6TH FIGHT EVER PEOPLE!
> 
> I doubt Brock will ever be knocked clean out in the Octagon. In fact, i sincerely doubt he will be defeated for a very long time.


Exactly. The dude has barely ever been hit in the face very hard. He probably had no idea what the fibre of his own chin was like before Carwin tested it for him. I'm of the belief that Lesnar will take much confidence from this fight. He now knows the hard punches hurt but wont take him out. Its a nice thing to take away from a fight if you ask me.


----------



## Danm2501

The Korean Zombie could take several Carwin bombs, stay standing and moving forward TBH.


----------



## G_Land

Danm2501 said:


> The Korean Zombie could take several Carwin bombs, stay standing and moving forward TBH.


 
As much as I would love to believe that ......I think it might kill him lol but how awesome would that be? I would be willing to take a bomb from carwin just to see what I would dream about lol


----------



## K R Y

He can take a punch physically. Mentally he ran away and curled up like a little girl. My Father watched the fight last night, when I saw him today the first thing he did was an impression of Brock. Could not stop laughing.


----------



## Woodenhead

Thunder1 said:


> Sure I still question is chin. The one thing I don't doubt is how scared he is to get punched. Watch the replay before he goes down. Tell me that doesn't look like a high school kid that's never been in a fight. AND HE'S the best in the world.





MikeHawk said:


> I didn't see Carwin land any flush shots. What's interesting to me, is how he reacts when he gets hit. Every time we've seen him get hit with something decent he turtles up and looks lost.


That plus having hands/forearms the size of his own head = not many flush shots. (he wasn't _intelligently_ defending himself, at least not until Carwin punched himself out) Carwin didn't put Mir to sleep, either, BTW. No, I don't think his chin is anything too special for the HW division.

Good to see his ground game getting better, though.


----------



## Fedorthebest

KryOnicle said:


> He can take a punch physically. Mentally he ran away and curled up like a little girl. My Father watched the fight last night, when I saw him today the first thing he did was an impression of Brock. Could not stop laughing.


sure i bet u and him can do better facing a carwin fist,maybe u can also submit him ahahahahahahahahahah


----------



## Emericanaddict

Brocks chin certainly isn't that good. He recoiled after 1 shot from Carwin and was ready to hit the floor. However he has an amazing heart and recovery rate much the same way that Forrest does.

Brock has taken bombs and been wobbled. He's admitted to it but what stands out is his ability to recover very quickly and battle through the storm of strikes that Carwin through even if many of them didnt land flush.

Heart can take you along way in this sport and I think that's going to become one of Brock's best attrbutes in the fights to come.


----------



## K R Y

Fedorthebest said:


> sure i bet u and him can do better facing a carwin fist,maybe u can also submit him ahahahahahahahahahah


Brock looked silly when he got hit by Carwin, joking about it does not mean we have delusions of being better fighters than he or Carwin, or doing better in the same situation.


----------



## Fedorthebest

KryOnicle said:


> Brock looked silly when he got hit by Carwin, joking about it does not mean we have delusions of being better fighters than he or Carwin, or doing better in the same situation.


u can also laugh on him but remember that the punch he takes ko all the ufc fighters


----------



## slapshot

I like how people try to say Carwin was gassed, I posted that I had a suspicion he might run into cardio issues but in no way did Carwin look gassed. We knew Brock would go for the TD and he really only had a few opportunity to attempt a TD before he got rocked in the first round. 

Brock made a nice feint and Carwin bit hook line and sinker and that was all Brock needed.

The TD came at the start of the round and all that can really be said is that Carwin made the mistake of losing his concentration and got took down.

In the first round I thought more punches hit Brock's hands and arms wile he was defending than anything else, some real stiff shots got through but not a lot of them landed flush.

That leads to my second BS statement we have already herd too much of and that's "the fight should have been stopped" Umm NO, in no way was Brock being inactive or not defending himself and as stated most of Carwin's shots missed their mark. 

I really dont think this is proof Brocks chin is solid, to me its more proof that it might be a little below average but I dont know how you can use this fight as a example either way.

Shane has some real big power in both hands probibly the heaviest hitter in the UFC so its hard to justify saying Brock has a weak chin because Carwin can drop him, Carwin can probably drop anyone in the UFC.

On the other side of things Brock's reaction to being dropped was amateur and somewhat concerning, took a lot of shots he didn't need to take because he just didn't know what to do to get out of the situation and Im going to be honest I dont think the punch that rocked Brock was Shane's hardest punch.

I had less questions about Brocks chin before this fight than I do now but regardless of the debate one thing is for sure, both men are beasts and both men are legitimate top 5 heavyweight fighters.


----------



## Kado

I don't.


----------



## creepjacker

What exactly would people have Brock do in that situation? Lay there and wait for the knockout? Yeah sure, if you are a complete idiot. He did what he needed to do to win the fight, and that is exactly what he did, WIN THE FIGHT.

Why all the hate? Carwin got beat by the better man. He looked one dimensional, and as soon as someone survived his 1st round onslaught, he lost, rather easily too. All I am hearing is excuses. How about Brock's excuse that he was literally on his death bed only a year ago? The fact that his entire professional career was in jeopardy? He could have easily taken a warm up fight first, but no, he defended his title like a true champ.

I'm happy to see a lot of people coming around to Brock now, but I still don't understand the hate that still lingers.


----------



## Fedorthebest

creepjacker said:


> What exactly would people have Brock do in that situation? Lay there and wait for the knockout? Yeah sure, if you are a complete idiot. He did what he needed to do to win the fight, and that is exactly what he did, WIN THE FIGHT.
> 
> Why all the hate? Carwin got beat by the better man. He looked one dimensional, and as soon as someone survived his 1st round onslaught, he lost, rather easily too. All I am hearing is excuses. How about Brock's excuse that he was literally on his death bed only a year ago? The fact that his entire professional career was in jeopardy? He could have easily taken a warm up fight first, but no, he defended his title like a true champ.
> 
> I'm happy to see a lot of people coming around to Brock now, but I still don't understand the hate that still lingers.


i agree,we say the mom of idiots (and haters) is always pregnant...


----------



## slapshot

creepjacker said:


> What exactly would people have Brock do in that situation? Lay there and wait for the knockout? Yeah sure, if you are a complete idiot. He did what he needed to do to win the fight, and that is exactly what he did, WIN THE FIGHT.
> 
> Why all the hate? Carwin got beat by the better man. He looked one dimensional, and as soon as someone survived his 1st round onslaught, he lost, rather easily too. All I am hearing is excuses. How about Brock's excuse that he was literally on his death bed only a year ago? The fact that his entire professional career was in jeopardy? He could have easily taken a warm up fight first, but no, he defended his title like a true champ.
> 
> I'm happy to see a lot of people coming around to Brock now, but I still don't understand the hate that still lingers.


Sometimes the fanboy posts are hard to read, like your post for instance, it starts out with a good point and then falls off into total inaccurate fodder, that was a prime time beatdown in the first round. You do realize that it was a easy 10-8 round for Carwin? How in the hell was that a easy win for Brock? How did Brock look any less "one dimensional" than Shane? Really you have no logic and even less perspective.

As far as "what would we have Brock do" to get out of the situation, he could have put him in guard and worked off his back but either way his guard from bottom position needs some work. Im not saying everything he did was a mistake but he could have done a lot better. Hay he's still learning I get that and I'm sure they both learned a lot from this fight. 

I will say I think this fight will be more of a positive impact for Shane and in time Shane will be the more dangerous fighter IMO.


----------



## VAwrestler

creepjacker said:


> He looked one dimensional, and as soon as someone survived his 1st round onslaught, he lost, rather easily too.


I disagree, big time with this part of your statement.

1 dimensional?? Name someone else that has stuffed Lesnar's TD...TWICE..yeah you can't. He completely outclassed Lesnar standing and had excellent hips and TD defense. 

Lesnar IS a one dimensional fighter. He has to get the TD 
and work his top game. He had nothing at all to offer from the bottom and knew he was in trouble standing. 

The difference in the fight was Lesnar learned himself some subs and surprised everyone by using it. 

I'm not hating on Lesnar (alothough I find him quite douche-tastic). He did what he had to do to win, but is still completely 1 dimensional. He HAS to get the TD and work from the top.

Oh, and his whole "I wore him down and let him gas himself out" bs is crap. Rope a dope may work in boxing, but will get you ko'd in mma. He turtled up and protected himself. The fight was never close to being stopped nor should it have been. If it wasn't a title fight, then yes it prolly would have, but when that belt is on the line, the refs don't want that controversy. 

Goes to show, you stuff that TD, he CAN be ko'd.

Now that I read what I typed, I guess I am hatin on him huh?? lol


----------



## K R Y

Fedorthebest said:


> u can also laugh on him but remember that the punch he takes ko all the ufc fighters


I wasn't laughing on him in general, just at that moment when he was running and covering up looked quite slapstick. I'm impressed he survived the beating he took.


----------



## VAwrestler

Carwin has the tools, he just needs a bigger tank. I really don't see JDS or Cain having a snowball's chance in hell. Brock is just wayyy too big of a man for them. I don't care how technical you are, power is power...God I can't wait for Lesnar-Carwin II...

Shane's still my boy!!!!!!!


----------



## BD3

*Shane Carwin has Brock-itis*

"35 may be the new 90... My Dr thinks I have Bronchitis (life long non smoker). Look for the Carwin Mobility Chair in stores soon!"

http://twitter.com/shanecarwin

Oh no Carwin. Please don't make excuses.


----------



## Kado

Oh, thats why he gassed...:smoke02::smoke01:


----------



## The505Butcher

I do not think he is making excuses. If he comes out and says that he had bronchitis and that is the only reason he lost then yeah that is an excuse. But he has always updated everything about his condition. Why not now?


----------



## Budhisten

If he uses this as an excuse then I'll lose some respect for the dude...

But all in all, that ain't good news for a fighter... Luckily fighting isn't the be all and end all of his economical life... But I hope he gets on top of this though


----------



## AmdM

The505Butcher said:


> I do not think he is making excuses. If he comes out and says that he had bronchitis and that is the only reason he lost then yeah that is an excuse. But he has always updated everything about his condition. Why not now?


Perhaps cause he doesnt wants to take nothing way of Lesnar W, or perhaps he dislikes people seeing him "making" excuses, even tought that´s possibly true.
He would know, we can just speculate...


----------



## joey__stalin

I guess I don't doubt his chin, it's just he didn't know wtf to do when he took a decent punch from someone with some strength behind it.


----------



## joey__stalin

I never read anything into these statements. Hell, people online would be saying "That made me lose some respect for Carwin, making excuses." even if the tweet said he had cancer (knocks on wood) heheh


----------



## joey__stalin

Cain doesn't stand a chance, at least to me. JDS is the bigger threat.


----------



## oldfan

Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that a member of team Jackson who trains at high altitude and has had his cardio questioned to the point that he brings it up first, would gas after 3 minutes?

Something happened to Carwin. Mental, physical or emotional.


----------



## Calibretto9

Yeeouch, bronchitis? That's out of nowhere.


----------



## _JB_

*Brock Lesnar Looks Back on UFC 116 Submission Win*


----------



## Budhisten

Not to rain on your parade, but this has been posted several times in other Lesnar-Carwin threads if I'm not mistaken :/

Not trying to be a douche, sorry


----------



## The Horticulturist

poor fella. 

that's the way it goes, no one is ever 100%. 

no one had ever seen anything more out of Carwin than what he showed, so I guess we can't be too mad at him for not pulling out anything more, our expectations were too high.

he will be back better than ever and with a whole new gameplan and a whole new regime and so on and so forth, hopefully anyway!


----------



## oldfan

It deserved a thread of it's own. 

That post fight press conference did a lot to raise my opinion of Brock.

not as much as getting up in round one or the smile and high 5 at the start of the 2nd. I need a gif of that.


----------



## No_Mercy

oldfan said:


> Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that a member of team Jackson who trains at high altitude and has had his cardio questioned to the point that he brings it up first, would gas after 3 minutes?
> 
> Something happened to Carwin. Mental, physical or emotional.


Two reasons, one he was nervous as hell, second adrenaline dump. I bet a lot on MMA fights usually watching countdowns for clues, old fights, records, but more importantly study their demeanor during weigh ins and especially right before the fight. Unfortunately bets are usually called in way before the fight starts. Carwin was not his usual calm self while Brock was surprisingly calm. Strange as it may sound, but I think Brock broke him mentally when he refused to quit. Something in Carwin just shutdown. Look at him right after the first round ends while he's sitting in his stool. He was dumbfounded and I knew it was over and this is coming from a guy who made two bets on him. He had it...sooo close...but man I gotta give credit to Brock for withstanding that punishment.


----------



## Life B Ez

No_Mercy said:


> Two reasons, one he was nervous as hell, second adrenaline dump. I bet a lot on MMA fights usually watching countdowns for clues, old fights, records, but more importantly study their demeanor during weigh ins and especially right before the fight. Unfortunately bets are usually called in way before the fight starts. Carwin was not his usual calm self while Brock was surprisingly calm. Strange as it may sound, but I think Brock broke him mentally when he refused to quit. Something in Carwin just shutdown. Look at him right after the first round ends while he's sitting in his stool. He was dumbfounded and I knew it was over and this is coming from a guy who made two bets on him. He had it...sooo close...but man I gotta give credit to Brock for withstanding that punishment.


This is a great post, you'll be getting some rep from me. 

I seen it while I was watching the fight too, it was obvious Carwin clearly thought that all he needed to do was connect and the belt was his, and he connected and connected again and again and Brock was still hanging around. So when Carwin went all out so the ref would stop it and the fight was still going he must have felt like Brock took his best and was coming back for more. That's why imo at least it looked like Carwin just threw in the towel in the second.


----------



## michelangelo

I thought he'd have a few tricks up his sleeve, that's for sure. 

Instead, it was Brock who had a trick or two waiting for Shane. 



oldfan said:


> Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that *a member of team Jackson* who trains at high altitude and has had his cardio questioned to the point that he brings it up first, would gas after 3 minutes?
> 
> Something happened to Carwin. Mental, physical or emotional.


----------



## MrObjective

*Carwin (Excuses - my thoughts)*

Ridiculous props given to Brock taking a beat down for the ages and coming out of the gate in the 2nd round for a quick finish. 

Was Carwin really that 'gassed' that he comes out so stiff and gets taken down with that much ease? That was a little shocking.

I read a clip of an article about Carwin having bronchitis. I don't think Carwin got gassed in the traditional sense, it was much more acute. Carwin getting acute respiratory acidosis does make sense.

Respiratory physiology mechanisms are all about pressure, nervous system responses to feedback from the cardiovascular/respiratory/endocrine/digestive system - all with implications on muscular response. I don't know what he was eating prefight, but I can't help but think his high altitude training was the prime culprit, some sort of nervous system mechanism went defunct from not being in his home environment perhaps kept his body from getting back to homeostasis - maybe. I'm thinking at some point he went in to acute respiratory acidosis. I'm trying to put the high altitude training in to perspective as a reason why his body didn't react properly, I don't know why or how it though, to me it would seem the opposite would have occurred. If someone got some arterial blood from him pre/post-fight, I think it would explain it better. Hell someone could make it a topic of dissertation with their own trials.

If Carwin is truly an educated engineer, he should very easily be able to understand pressure - he should be able to pick up a physiology book and really have a better understanding clinical respiratory physiology.

I have exams coming up, after that i'm researching and writing Shane a letter and maybe send a t-shirt to get signed 

My Rx for Carwin:

Add some heavy Pranayama twice a day, maybe meditate a bit, perhaps find a Butyeko practioner, and move out of Denver. Whatever the doctors say, stay away from hyperbaric chambers and anti-histamines -- the feedback loops will only make you worse in the intense situations - like fighting UFC heavyweights.


----------



## HaVoK

I think all fighters would benefit from having blood samples taken pre and post fight. A lot of valuable knowledge is to be gained.

Interesting read.


----------



## PinkPanther21

oldfan said:


> Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that a member of team Jackson who trains at high altitude and has had his cardio questioned to the point that he brings it up first, would gas after 3 minutes?
> 
> Something happened to Carwin. Mental, physical or emotional.


There's a great couple of books by Sam Sheridan - A Fighter's Heart and the follow-up, A Fighter's Mind: Inside the Mental Game - The guy trained with a lot of top camps in Brazil & Thailand and various places in the U.S. - and over and over again he talks to fighters who trained like crazy, were all prepared and then ran their tanks and had nothing left. And that's what happened to Carwin. The guy had no reason to hold anything back. Nobody had made it out of the first round with him. Why would he think after going 12-0 that Lesnar would be different? He went full-out for 3 minutes pounding on the closest human equivalent to a silverback gorilla and using every bit of adrenaline and everything else he had - the guy was so winded, he went to the hospital afterwards because he was hyperventilating when he got to his locker room.

What happened to him mentally, physically & emotionally? He was in the biggest hardest fight of his life - and he lost! 12-0 and he lost! He had the guy just where he wanted him - and he lost! That's not a little thing. And I'm not saying it to dis Carwin, cause he's a damned good, tough fighter. But what happened to him is not all that unique or rare, when you read about what fighters go through. I highly recommend those books to anybody interested in MMA or any combat sports.


----------



## HexRei

I read a recent study that suggested that while training at altitude does increase red blood cell counts, it also slows the metabolism, possibly negating any actual performance gains. Just as an aside.


----------



## VolcomX311

slowed Metabolism is a broad stroke statement. Slowed metabolism of what? Fats, carbs, proteins? If by slowed metabolism they meant a slowed heart, then a slow BMR is actually the premier sign of being cardiovascularly superior. 

High altitude training has years and years of backed research, so it would require at least an equal amount of years and years of published rebuttals to negate that practice. Every theory has tested positives and antithesis. Currently, high altitude training positive research far outway any detrimental findings.

If there were any kind of slowing of the metabolism. It would only be in the initial stages where the body is insufficient in hemoglobins, once the body adapts to the changes. Nothing would suggest the body would need to compensate once the oxygen debts are met.


----------



## HexRei

VolcomX311 said:


> slowed Metabolism is a broad stroke statement. Slowed metabolism of what? Fats, carbs, proteins? If by slowed metabolism they meant a slowed heart, then a slow BMR is actually the premier sign of being cardiovascularly superior.
> 
> High altitude training has years and years of backed research, so it would require at least an equal amount of years and years of published rebuttals to negate that practice. Every theory has tested positives and antithesis. Currently, high altitude training positive research far outway any detrimental findings.
> 
> If there were any kind of slowing of the metabolism. It would only be in the initial stages where the body is insufficient in hemoglobins, once the body adapts to the changes. Nothing would suggest the body would need to compensate once the oxygen debts are met.


I didn't say it was proven, it was just a single study that had surprising results.

http://www.myscience.cc/wire/prolonged_altitude_training_could_reduce_endurance-2010-oxford


----------



## marcthegame

*Shane Carwin reveals he suffered from Lactic Acidosis during fight with Brock Lesnar*

Former UFC interim heavyweight champion, Shane Carwin has revealed he suffered from Lactic Acidosis during his fight this past weekend at UFC 116 in Las Vegas, Nevada with Brock Lesnar, resulting in cramp, nausea and a head ache.

Speaking via his Twitter page, Carwin said:

“What happened to me July 3rd is called ‘Lactic Acidosis’. It was brought on by a few things and mainly not breathing while exerting energy. I was all cramped up, nausea and major head ache.

“Let me be clear Brock won the fight, no issues that he earned the right to be the Champion. Just passing on the info as it comes 2 me. I will fight him any time I get the chance.”

Speaking via MMAWeekly.com, Carwin’s manager, Jason Genet said:

“We don’t want it to come off sounding like an excuse. Shane had the 100-percent best camp he’s ever had coming into a fight and it shouldn’t diminish Brock’s victory in any way. But what happened, what caused the shutdown, was lactic acidosis. It just comes from exploding like he was doing, not properly breathing, and not having your body prepared for it.”

“Even though he said he was going out to land a strike, it was over in the corner. Normally in the corner is when your body begins to recover and that wasn’t happening. His body was getting worse. You can solve that issue with special diet, you can change it with training techniques, and you can train it with supplements. We’ve already got a guy that’s gonna be working with Shane to develop some things to help make some training adjustments.”

“It’s not an excuse, as far as Shane is concerned, it’s just another way that you can lose a fight. Shane’s just happy that now he knows and can do something to work on it.”


----------



## Spec0688

I dont see it as a excuse, it is his own fault that it did happen. He wasnt beathing properly while going crazy with punches, so that is why I do not see it as a excuse. Just letting the fans know which is cool. 

He is used to putting guys away so fast that he probably never had to breath properly while punching non stop for 2 minutes, most guys go away after 15 seconds.


----------



## Wookie

Even though they say it isn't an excuse, it really sounds like it. How can you say you had the best training camp ever were 100% and you didn't have any injuries. Now you didn't train or breath correctly, come on. Just come back twice as pissed and all will be forgiven.


----------



## michelangelo

Translation: he punched himself out. 

Happens to all the greats: Foreman, Carwin, Petruzelli...


----------



## luckbox

So basicly, he gassed. He spent to much energy over a to long period of time so his muscles turned stiff and he couldn't get his breathing under control. It's just a fancier term for gassing as far as I am concerned.

Sure, the fact that this was such a huge title fight might have something to do with it. To much pressure can make you forget simple things like breathing. But at the end of the day he ran out of energy, aka gassed.


----------



## Thermopyle

He's not making excuses. He's just explaining what happened that made him look like a zombie in round two after the way he had exploded in round one.

Also, Shane has never been that far in a fight. Maybe if other fighters before Brock had been able to sustain Carwin's onslaught, he would have found out he had an issue in previous fights. No one has anyway of knowing they are training wrong until that training fails them. Too bad for him he found out during his title shot.


----------



## capsal

Lactic acidosis = gassed ! simple as that... Brock better thank his lucky starts that it happened this way and that the ref didn't stop the fight. This will be a great learning experience for Carwin and I am sure he will be more confident and calculated the next time he meets with Spongebrock Lesnar. :happy02:


----------



## limba

luckbox said:


> So basicly, he gassed. He spent to much energy over a to long period of time so his muscles turned stiff and he couldn't get his breathing under control. It's just a fancier term for gassing as far as I am concerned.


^^This :thumbsup:


----------



## Hiro

If it's not an excuse, why bother saying it? It doesn't change anything, it was Carwin's fault that he lost and whether that was because he simply got owned, gassed or had lactic acidosis doesn't matter now. Broadcasting that useless piece of information does nothing for anyone, only fuels the heat on Brock. Kinda like... an excuse, no?

They should have kept quiet imo, excuses like 'he didn't breathe properly' are lame. They say not to take away from Brock's win but that's exactly what they're doing.


----------



## HaVoK

There is always an excuse why you loose. Its fact.


----------



## Budhisten

Just a fancy way to disguise what happened, as almost everybody in here has already mentioned...

Shane "Lactic Acidosis" Carwin turned his lungs inside out, which has never helped anybody in af fight


----------



## mastodon2222

Carwin was nervous and tense and that caused him to gas out prematurely. I'm sure he trains 5 x 5 minute rounds all the time and, but nerves will make you gas out early (I know this firsthand, unfortunately).
If he would have breathed and picked his shots a little better when he had Lesnar on his back, he would've won.


----------



## ptw

Hiro said:


> If it's not an excuse, why bother saying it? It doesn't change anything, it was Carwin's fault that he lost and whether that was because he simply got owned, gassed or had lactic acidosis doesn't matter now. Broadcasting that useless piece of information does nothing for anyone, only fuels the heat on Brock. Kinda like... an excuse, no?
> 
> *They should have kept quiet imo,* excuses like 'he didn't breathe properly' are lame. They say not to take away from Brock's win but that's exactly what they're doing.


What...? Why not silence the critics and explain wtf actually happened instead of letting scrubs like yourself assume a bunch of BS? 

Lactic Acidosis is not gassing. He overexerted himself in the 1st round which caused his body to start shutting down. What Shane did was throw his punches anaerobically for an extended period of time. What happens when you throw a bunch of HUGE power punches without breathing properly? Your body needs more oxygen because you're not breathing, so your arteries widen up, well you're still not breathing so you still have the same amount of oxygen in your body...hypoxia occurs, your body begins to slowly shut down, (un)fortunately he was in a fight and under a whopping amount of adrenaline, so he was able to maintain himself until the 2nd round where his body was trying to recuperate. His body starts diverting blood from his limbs and head and sending it to his core where the vital organs lie. 

Inexperience, improper breathing, and adrenaline were his downfall. When you have as much power as Shane has in his hands, it's easy to overexert yourself under the tremendous amount of adrenaline of a fight. He was eager to finish the fight and overexerted himself to the point that his body went into compensated shock. 

Stop being ignorant and insulting, it's not an excuse, just an explanation of what happened, and it makes perfect sense. He didn't shit the 2nd round...


----------



## Budhisten

ptw said:


> What...? Why not silence the critics and explain wtf actually happened instead of letting scrubs like yourself assume a bunch of BS?
> 
> Lactic Acidosis is not gassing. He overexerted himself in the 1st round which caused his body to start shutting down. What Shane did was throw his punches anaerobically for an extended period of time. What happens when you throw a bunch of HUGE power punches without breathing properly? Your body needs more oxygen because you're not breathing, so your arteries widen up, well you're still not breathing so you still have the same amount of oxygen in your body...hypoxia occurs, your body begins to slowly shut down, (un)fortunately he was in a fight and under a whopping amount of adrenaline, so he was able to maintain himself until the 2nd round where his body was trying to recuperate. His body starts diverting blood from his limbs and head and sending it to his core where the vital organs lie.
> 
> Inexperience, improper breathing, and adrenaline were his downfall. When you have as much power as Shane has in his hands, it's easy to overexert yourself under the tremendous amount of adrenaline of a fight. He was eager to finish the fight and overexerted himself to the point that his body went into compensated shock.
> 
> Stop being ignorant and insulting, it's not an excuse, just an explanation of what happened, and it makes perfect sense. He didn't shit the 2nd round...


So he gassed? Because of adrenaline... Not trying to be a punk I just don't see a big difference... Although I don't have as much insight on the subject as you seem to have...


----------



## rean1mator

No it's not as simple as that. It's possible that if he forgot to breathe properly to get oxygen to his muscles than it's something that could have largely been prevented during the fight and may have nothing to do with conditioning. You ever get so excited or nervous that you forgot to breathe? He just needs to work on his breathing technique. It's possible however that there maybe something physiologically wrong with him that prevents him from absorbing the proper amount of oxygen in to his muscle. Doubtful since he has been an athlete all his life. 

There's a reason why certain athletes excel in endurance sports, it's b/c their body processes oxygen at a far greater efficiency than normal people. Even people in absolute amazing shape can go anaerobic. 








capsal said:


> Lactic acidosis = gassed ! simple as that... Brock better thank his lucky starts that it happened this way and that the ref didn't stop the fight. This will be a great learning experience for Carwin and I am sure he will be more confident and calculated the next time he meets with Spongebrock Lesnar. :happy02:


----------



## ptw

Budhisten said:


> So he gassed? Because of adrenaline... Not trying to be a punk I just don't see a big difference... Although I don't have as much insight on the subject as you seem to have...


If by gassing you mean his deteriorated state was caused by poor conditioning...then no, he didn't gas. 

What happened is he overexerted himself to the point that his body began to shut down because of poor perfusion(poor delivery of oxygen to his body, organs, etc.) Now, you would think that he would know when he's breathing inadequately enough to prevent his body from shutting down, but like I said under that amount of adrenaline it's easy for this to happen when you've got that much punching power at your disposal. I'm willing to bet he put himself into compensated Shock, you can see some signs of it after the 1st round http://www.mmatko.com/brock-lesnar-vs-shane-carwin-fight-video-ufc-116-heavyweight-championship/ 5 min in as Shane is walking towards his corner he doesn't seem mentally stable, this becomes even more apparent at 5:30 when he asks for water, he goes for the bottle twice and misses it very weakly, then you see him gasp a couple times and he becomes very whoozy and closes his eyes some. He's completely different in the 2nd round than he was in the 1st, so it's easy to assume he's gassed, but he's not even acting gassed he looks mentally out of it all wobbly and such, just compare the two rounds. I know it seems like I'm over analyzing his mannerisms, but I'm an EMT and we're trained to look for signs like this. It isn't uncommon for stuff like this to happen to athletes who are putting their hearts into a sport.

Lesnar's smart, he could feel how weak Carwin was and went for that choke cuz that is an extremely hard submission to pull off on anyone. Carwin had to be taken to the hospital too, don't you guys think that's weird for a guy who whooped Lesnar's ass the 1st round and was submitted rather easily the 2nd?


----------



## Budhisten

ptw said:


> If by gassing you mean his deteriorated state was caused by poor conditioning...then no, he didn't gas.
> 
> What happened is he overexerted himself to the point that his body began to shut down because of poor perfusion(poor delivery of oxygen to his body, organs, etc.) Now, you would think that he would know when he's breathing inadequately enough to prevent his body from shutting down, but like I said under that amount of adrenaline it's easy for this to happen when you've got that much punching power at your disposal. I'm willing to bet he put himself into compensated Shock, you can see some signs of it after the 1st round http://www.mmatko.com/brock-lesnar-vs-shane-carwin-fight-video-ufc-116-heavyweight-championship/ 5 min in as Shane is walking towards his corner he doesn't seem mentally stable, this becomes even more apparent at 5:30 when he asks for water, he goes for the bottle twice and misses it very weakly, then you see him gasp a couple times and he becomes very whoozy and closes his eyes some. He's completely different in the 2nd round than he was in the 1st, so it's easy to assume he's gassed, but he's not even acting gassed he looks mentally out of it all wobbly and such, just compare the two rounds. I know it seems like I'm over analyzing his mannerisms, but I'm an EMT and we're trained to look for signs like this. It isn't uncommon for stuff like this to happen to athletes who are putting their hearts into a sport.
> 
> Lesnar's smart, he could feel how weak Carwin was and went for that choke cuz that is an extremely hard submission to pull off on anyone. Carwin had to be taken to the hospital too, don't you guys think that's weird for a guy who whooped Lesnar's ass the 1st round and was submitted rather easily the 2nd?


I see  Thanks for broadening my perception of what happened in that fight, it's always awesome with a little extra insight 

Awesome breakdown


----------



## Hiro

ptw said:


> What...? Why not silence the critics and explain wtf actually happened *instead of letting scrubs like yourself assume a bunch of BS*?


Lol I'm a scrub am I? Read my post again and try to find where I assumed exactly why Carwin lost.

You done that? Good, now who's the scrub? I didn't assume a thing, I listed all the possibilities and pointed out none. You can't even in read a reply properly, accuse me of assuming Carwin lost for a particular reason and call me a scrub. I didn't specify what I thought happened to Carwin, I'm happy to believe his excuse. All I said was it's an excuse, which he tried to say it isn't.

You're a chump. I didn't even bother reading your essay, I've got no time for people like you. NEXT.


----------



## 420atalon

Haha look at that Engineer use big words to try and fool people... Of course he suffered from Lactic Acidosis... Thats what happens when your exert yourself...


----------



## footodors

It's the cause of rigor mortis too.


----------



## creepjacker

I love how everyone thinks that if Carwin didn't gas he woulda won. Maybe, just maybe, if Carwin didn't exert himself like that in the first round it wouldn't have been so one sided. Maybe Brock could have made something happen instead of being on the defensive so much, because he wouldn't have been pounded on so relentlessly. 

My point is, so many people here only see things from one perspective. Brock said he could feel him punching himself out, maybe it really wasn't nearly as bad as it looked for Brock.


----------



## Chileandude

Hiro said:


> If it's not an excuse, why bother saying it? It doesn't change anything, it was Carwin's fault that he lost and whether that was because he simply got owned, gassed or had lactic acidosis doesn't matter now. Broadcasting that useless piece of information does nothing for anyone, only fuels the heat on Brock. Kinda like... an excuse, no?
> 
> They should have kept quiet imo, excuses like 'he didn't breathe properly' are lame. They say not to take away from Brock's win but that's exactly what they're doing.


i couldn't disagree more, i find this very interesting and informative, like everyone i supposed that Carwin didn't have the cardio to maintain his onslaught for more than a round, hearing this makes me think he might actually do it if he learns to avoid what happened to him.

as far as i understand, he's claiming he wasn't gassed but rather had his body shut out and unable to pump the gas into it.


----------



## diablo5597

There is nothing wrong with what he said. He just said what happened to him in the fight and it is very clear to me and anyone who watched the fight that he is telling the truth. It's just like a fighter saying, "I lost because I dropped my hands and he caught me." There is nothing wrong with that is there? It is only poor sportsmanship if you make up a bunch of BS like Tito does.


----------



## Thermopyle

Hiro said:


> I didn't even bother reading your essay...


You afraid you'd learn something?


----------



## swpthleg

Let's keep the debate civil, please.


----------



## Calroid

creepjacker said:


> I love how everyone thinks that if Carwin didn't gas he woulda won. Maybe, just maybe, if Carwin didn't exert himself like that in the first round it wouldn't have been so one sided. Maybe Brock could have made something happen instead of being on the defensive so much, because he wouldn't have been pounded on so relentlessly.
> 
> My point is, so many people here only see things from one perspective. Brock said he could feel him punching himself out, maybe it really wasn't nearly as bad as it looked for Brock.


Completely agree.

When I run 5 miles I don't run at the same pace that I would run 100m. 

Carwin was scheduled to fight a 5 round fight but he fought the 1st round at a pace like it was only a 1 round fight. Of course he had severe lactic acid buildup. Carwin is a smart guy, surely he should have known this. Obviously Carwin needs to learn how to pace himself properly and not blow his wad in the first round like a pimpled faced teenager.


----------



## Hiro

Chileandude said:


> i couldn't disagree more, i find this very interesting and informative, like everyone i supposed that Carwin didn't have the cardio to maintain his onslaught for more than a round, hearing this makes me think he might actually do it if he learns to avoid what happened to him.
> 
> as far as i understand, he's claiming he wasn't gassed but rather had his body shut out and unable to pump the gas into it.


Yeah I appreciate it's informative, but it's an excuse. He obviously doesn't want to take anything away from Brock, he said so himself, but then he does exactly that. If he didn't want to kick up a fuss about it then he should have left it be and showed us all what's up in a rematch down the line.

I don't see that it makes much difference what caused him to come out like a zombie in the second.

It's not a huge deal I just think stating he doesn't want to take anything away from Brock and then saying he had lactic acidosis is slightly contradictory.


----------



## fenderman80

Carwin needs to hook up with Wandy and do some snorkel training. That workout is specifically designed to help build the body's tolerance to lactic acid as a result of anaerobic metabolism.


----------



## Chileandude

Hiro said:


> Yeah I appreciate it's informative, but it's an excuse. He obviously doesn't want to take anything away from Brock, he said so himself, but then he does exactly that. If he didn't want to kick up a fuss about it then he should have left it be and showed us all what's up in a rematch down the line.
> 
> I don't see that it makes much difference what caused him to come out like a zombie in the second.
> 
> It's not a huge deal I just think stating he doesn't want to take anything away from Brock and then saying he had lactic acidosis is slightly contradictory.


is not contradictory at all, his fans have a right to know we he didn't perform up to standart in round two, his performace there was nothing short of horrible.


----------



## Hiro

Chileandude said:


> is not contradictory at all, his fans have a right to know we he didn't perform up to standart in round two, his performace there was nothing short of horrible.


If you say so dude, can't be bothered to debate it tbh.


----------



## MrObjective

fenderman80 said:


> Carwin needs to hook up with Wandy and do some snorkel training. That workout is specifically designed to help build the body's tolerance to lactic acid as a result of anaerobic metabolism.


Snorkeling is nice, but there are better methods IMO.

I'd say just focus purely on respiratory training - no need to exert any extra energy while you're underwater with snorkeling. Any exercise (underwater, pranayama, Butyeko) that you focus on O2 deprivation----more importantly CO2 accumulation, increasing pulmonary thresholds and expanding arteries. any method that can have a safe and solid method of self induced hypocapnia.

I used to do go into a swimming pool and do 30-45 minutes with my timer, just hold breath like 2 minutes, come up, stop timer, go under 2 more minutes, stop timer. I lost some weight, but not my strength, felt better, did my hard sprints with easier recovery. Just get to that total sum of minutes underwater. It's also supposed to awaken parts of the underwater mammalian brain/physiological response (like dolphins and whales).

My objective was memory and mental acuity, but absolutely everything improved - my body was cleaner, sharper reflexes. It's an extremely potent way of expanding arteries and increasing your memory. I plan to join a local pool and doing it next Philippine summer as well. I did this last year, every other day or so --- I just did it for a few weeks, but time well spent. 

Dr. Yoshiro Nakamatsu (sp?) is the man that championed this method - but he's like this old Japanese scientist (inventor of the floppy disk, digital face watch, microchip, cds -- a lot of concepts that IBM is credited for - still the man is the world record holder of most patents).

I've never found research on the method, but beneficial results were quick for me and it worked. I'd be doing this every opportunity, I just live far as f**k from a good swimming pool and membership costs are a killer.


----------



## Couchwarrior

ptw said:


> Lactic Acidosis is not gassing. He overexerted himself in the 1st round which caused his body to start shutting down. What Shane did was throw his punches anaerobically for an extended period of time. What happens when you throw a bunch of HUGE power punches without breathing properly? Your body needs more oxygen because you're not breathing, so your arteries widen up, well you're still not breathing so you still have the same amount of oxygen in your body...hypoxia occurs, your body begins to slowly shut down, (un)fortunately he was in a fight and under a whopping amount of adrenaline, so he was able to maintain himself until the 2nd round where his body was trying to recuperate. His body starts diverting blood from his limbs and head and sending it to his core where the vital organs lie.
> 
> Inexperience, improper breathing, and adrenaline were his downfall.


Still though, isn't that the same reason why fighters in general gas? I mean the worse your conditioning, the faster you'll go inte anaerobic mode. Also, we ofter see new guys in the UFC gassing, surely it has to do with nerves, but we still call it gassing, because that's what it is. Nobody just loses all their energy reserves from five minutes of aerobic exercise.

Still seems to me it's just a fancier word for gassing, which is good, because it means he's not making up excuses. But it makes the article kind of pointless, because everyone who saw the fight already knew he gassed. The title could as well be "Shane Carwin reveals new fancy word for what happened to him during his fight with Brock".


----------



## Soojooko

This stuff makes no sense to me.

If you would allow me to simplify:

Body has an energy output at any particular time.

Body consumes a level of oxygen dependant on breathing.

IF the athlete can match the energy output with the right levels of oxygen, then all is ok?

However, exerting too much energy without the right levels of oxygen will result in being Carwined.

It STILL sounds like gassing to me. Isn't gassing simply when you run out of "gas"... as in oxygen... hence the word "gas-ing"? Carwin used up too much of his energy too quickly in round one. Dozens of fighters have done this before him and come out in round 2 or 3 looking like corpses... yet in every single one of those cases, we call it "Gassing". Now the scientific term for gassing comes to the fore and it seems like we're acting like its a different thing.

In closing, if Lactic Acidosis is not the scientific term for gassing, then what is?


----------



## Rusko

I dont know i think the beat down carwin put on brock earned him even more fans.


----------



## cdtcpl

*Skinny kid with Carwin....anyone else notice*

So I have been sitting on this question since the beggining of the Carwin/Lesnar fight. When Carwin walked out there was this skinny kid with him who was smiling so big I thought he was going to die of joy. When Carwin was taking off his gear he put his hat on this kid and Carwin smiled at him. The whole time this kids smile is just off the charts.

After the fight when Carwin and Lesnar were leaving the cage this kid got a chance to shake Lesnars hand and looked even more happy. 

This kid clearly wasn't one of his training partners or coaches, anyone know the story behind this kid? Was it a make a wish kid or something? I am not bagging on him or anything, I just want to know how I can get where that kid was!


----------



## leifdawg

That was Trevor Whitman, Carwin's head trainer and striking coach. Thanks for the LOL though cuz I can't stand his shit eating grin.


----------



## cdtcpl

leifdawg said:


> That was Trevor Whitman, Carwin's head trainer and striking coach. Thanks for the LOL though cuz I can't stand his shit eating grin.


Really?!? He looked like a cancer kid! And why would he be so happy to shake Lesnars hand? That dude is odd if you are right (which I am not doubting).


----------



## Indestructibl3

leifdawg said:


> *That was Trevor Whitman*, Carwin's head trainer and striking coach. Thanks for the LOL though cuz I can't stand his shit eating grin.


I lol'd hard ...


----------



## Soojooko

This thread is maximum lol. 

I went and watched it again and lol'd even more! If I didn't recognize Trevor, I soooo would have been asking the same questions as the OP!

Haha!


----------



## Killz

hahaha, this thread is all kinds of win!!!


mega +rep to the OP. 


2nd from left:


----------



## Soojooko

Haha!!

Hes like the poor kid who won a competition in a cheap magazine. Wow.


----------



## The Horticulturist

HAHAHA! HAHAHA! HAHAHA!

HA!

That's funny stuff! That pic makes him look huge though


----------



## Calibretto9

Oh man, I hate that guy more than anyone else in MMA. He's such a chode. I remember in that TUF season when he was sitting there saying some poem he invented to a fighter. I wanted to crawl through the screen and choke him to death with my belt. 

"Shit eating grin" - LOL, best ever.


----------



## Killz

SJ said:


> HAHAHA! HAHAHA! HAHAHA!
> 
> HA!
> 
> That's funny stuff! That pic makes him look huge though


there are surprisingly very few photos of him on the internet...shame 


EDIT: On a side note, this is the best thread i've seen i think, possibly ever hahahaha


----------



## RFC

LOL, didn't he draw a picture of Rashad FOR Rashad before his fight with Rampage? He said it took him 40hours or something!!!!


----------



## G_Land

Lol yes he did....It showed Rashad in all "stages"...Pure cheese lol


----------



## cdtcpl

Wow, sort of embarassed....oh well! At least I gave a few chuckles! Thanks for the info!


----------



## Soojooko

That drawing thing was pure warm brie poured over a small white fluffy rabbit. One of the most cringworthy bits of TV evar. Thanks for reminding me about that. All the lol has now left me... replaced only with a cheesy burp.


----------



## MagiK11

Man, I hardly post on here, but this thread deserved one ! hahahaha funny shyt!


----------



## oldfan

cdtcpl said:


> Wow, sort of embarassed....oh well! At least I gave a few chuckles! Thanks for the info!


 Don't be. I would have thought the same thing If I hadn't recognized him. I remember thinking "what's wrong with him?"

That stupid grin might have made sense if , I don't know....his fighter could fight 2-3 rounds?


----------



## G_Land

Soojooko said:


> That drawing thing was pure warm brie poured over a small white fluffy rabbit. One of the most cringworthy bits of TV evar. Thanks for reminding me about that. All the lol has now left me... replaced only with a cheesy burp.


And I think nobody else knew he was going to do that because everybody seemed to shift in their seats. Rashad looked like he got socks for his birthday...but then gave that corny speech...I was embarassed just watching it


----------



## Adam365

*Ask the Fight Doc: What caused Shane Carwin's body to seize up at UFC 116?*

http://mmajunkie.com/news/19851/ask-the-fight-doc-what-caused-shane-carwins-body-to-seize-up-at-ufc-116.mma



> Following his near-victory and then eventual submission loss to UFC champ Brock Lesnar this past weekend at UFC 116, Shane Carwin blogged about his body "seizing up" after an active first round.
> 
> Carwin maintains his "cardio was fine, but my body was not."
> 
> In a bonus installment of "Ask the Fight Doc," MMAjunkie.com medical columnist Dr. Johnny Benjamin discusses what could have caused such a turn of events and how epinephrine surges physiologically are quite similar to anxiety attacks.
> 
> 
> * * * *
> 
> 
> Hi Doc: Got a question about Shane Carwin's endurance. Post fight, he said, "Toward the end of the (first round), my body began to seize up. In between rounds, I could not move my legs and had what felt like a whole body cramp. My cardio was fine, but my body was not." I've never experienced something like this myself; then again, I'm not 265-plus pounds and 35 years old. Is there a condition that causes this to happen, or do you believe that his adrenalin got the better of him because he thought he had Brock Lesnar beat and wore himself out? Thanks, Travis
> 
> Now, this is a very popular question!
> 
> I'd love to know an accurate pay-per-view number for UFC 116. And remember, PPV is just how many actually paid – not watched or stole the feed. From the sheer volume of emails I received with this particular question, the number must be huge.
> 
> Adrenaline dumping is a very popular phrase in the worlds of fitness and combat sports. It truly is not common medical terminology. The phrase appears to be used to describe some of the characteristics associated with a surge of epinephrine (adrenaline) released during extreme physical exertion (sports and/or fighting).
> 
> An epinephrine surge prepares the body for the classic fight-or-flight scenario: significant increase in heart rate, rapid breathing, glucose surge in blood for energy, heightened awareness, sweating, etc.
> 
> It is interesting to note that this is the same physiology involved in an anxiety attack.
> 
> Unfortunately, this level of readiness expends a great deal of energy. Therefore, it cannot be maintained for long. That is why veterans of the fight game will often admonish combatants to "stay relaxed" and "slow your breathing" in hopes of blunting the epinephrine surge.
> 
> I believe that Carwin's perception that his body seized and wouldn't respond likely was due to several factors with increased levels of epinephrine aggravating the underlying physiology.
> 
> Improper hydration related to weight-cutting cannot be entirely dismissed. I would not be surprised if Shane Carwin was 280-plus pounds a few days prior to the weigh-in. Therefore, he would be forced to sweat and water restrict the weight off in a short period of time. This process can wreak havoc with your electrolytes, which in turn can hamper performance.
> 
> Additionally, never underestimate the amount of work being performed and energy being expended by athletes of this size. Moving your 265-plus pounds in addition to controlling another athlete's 265-plus pounds all while fighting for five minutes without interruption is an amazing feat. Now, rest for 60 seconds and do it again. And again. And again. And again.
> 
> His body failed ("seized" is his terminology) for the same reason that any massive engine does. Simply put? It was pushed too hard for too long.
> 
> Experiment: Have a training partner count while you do as many push-ups as you can for four minutes without resting. Then immediately transition to the bench press and lift an empty bar (45 pounds) as quickly as you can for one minute. Rest for exactly 60 seconds. Do as many push-ups as you can for five minutes without rest.
> 
> How many did you do? Not many, huh?
> 
> Now, if you add an epinephrine surge to these dynamics, you may begin to understand 1 percent of what Carwin was experiencing during UFC 116.
> 
> For reasons such as these, I continue to assert that elite MMA athletes are some of the greatest athletes on the planet. If we as fans discuss their athleticism more and the gladiatorial aspects of the sport less, maybe MMA will gain greater respect with influential law makers in important markets such as New York and Ontario.
> 
> Dr. Johnny Benjamin is MMAjunkie.com's medical columnist and consultant and a noted combat-sports specialist. He is also a member of the Association of Boxing Commissions' MMA Medical Subcommittee. Dr. Benjamin writes an "Ask the Doc" column every two weeks for MMAjunkie.com. To submit a question for a future column, email him at askthedoc [AT] mmajunkie.com, or share your questions and thoughts in the comments section below. You can find Dr. Benjamin online at www.drjohnnybenjamin.com, and you can read his other sports-related articles at blog.drjohnnybenjamin.com.


I thought this was interesting.


----------



## pipe

You are correct, it is interesting.


----------



## vilify

he gassed..duh!


----------



## Calibretto9

Oh man, don't talk about that painting. I remember staring at the TV wondering, "Is this really happening?" After it was over I turned off the tv and sat there with a sick feeling. Just so embarassing to watch. I was embarassed for them.


----------



## G_Land

I remember thinking somebody was watching me watch that happen.....it was weird I felt dirty


----------



## oldfan

I guess I missed that episode.

I was embarrassed for him when they put his "soul mate" on the primetime/countdown show. I lost a little respect for the whole Jackson team when I saw that.


----------



## Kado

Yea, the man is quite the sketchy individual.


----------



## Soojooko

hkado said:


> Yea, the man is quite the sketchy individual.


boom boom


----------



## G_Land

Im trying to find a pic of the picture soo hard lol


----------



## Drowning Donkey

Best thread ever right here.


----------



## IllegalLegKick

Good read thanks for posting


----------



## The Horticulturist

Technical gassing due to overexertion sounds about right. Stuffing Brocks TD's and keeping up the pace he was, was just too much for Carwin. But, he knows what he's capable and not capable of now, he will come back better and smash more people.


Thanks for the article!


----------



## Blitzz

Another technical read just to sum up that Carwin gassed.


----------



## morninglightmt

Carwin came in too heavy. He should have focused more on his technique and cardio instead of his size. Looks like he learned nothing from Mir.


----------



## ptw

ROFL this is really funny, very sincere thread.


----------



## RFC

G_Land said:


> Im trying to find a pic of the picture soo hard lol


Check out my new sig man!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Soojooko

RFC said:


> Check out my new sig man!!!!!!!!!!


Awww man... that's just plain gross. Man, Trevor is nasty. Haha!!!

Its a proper rubbish sketch as well.


----------



## VolcomX311

Sounds like PR control to divert the cardio issue. 

Dehydration can make you cramp, but he didn't look cramped while on his feet, unless the cramping coincidentally occurred the moment Lesnar moved into triangle position. 

That's one convenient cramp.


----------



## vilify

Halfway through the fight I was yelling for him to slow down and pick his shots wisely but No he punched himself out and gassed. End of story.


----------



## Danm2501

Why do pictures of Trevor Wittman remind me of this Ricky Gervais, Stephen Merchant and Karl Pilkington conversation?






I'd love to see him on Noel Edmonds:

"We've got a little kid here, what's your name?"
"Trevor"
"And er, you want to train fighters?"
"yeh"
"Who with?"
"Anderson Silva"
"Ok, well, we can't do that, we can't arrange Anderson Silva; would you like to train with Rashad Evans, James McSweeney and Brendan Schaub?"
"Yeh."
"Well, good, we can do that. Chuck 'em in the cage. Get in. Then you can take 'em home after and they'll be your best friends.....'come on Rashad'"

Ahem....


----------



## coldcall420

UrbanBounca said:


> For the record, CC420, pay up, sucka! :thumb02:


 
Did we have a bet or something???:confused02: Im confused....


----------



## Soojooko

Anyone remember which episode the sketch was in? I wanna re-watch it for a reminder of the chedder. I'm guessing it was the last...

Ive got on my rubber gloves and my super strength sunglasses. ( not to mention a full lube tube )... I'm off to mma-core to gross myself out. Wish me luck.


----------



## Hiro

So what he's saying is that Carwin gassed. Got it.


----------



## VolcomX311

coldcall420 said:


> Did we have a bet or something???:confused02: Im confused....


LOL. It's a retrospect bet.


----------



## Majortom505

Blitzz said:


> Another technical read just to sum up that Carwin gassed.


If you really feel that he just gassed,then this article just explained to you what gassing is and how gassing happens.


----------



## ptw

To say Carwin gassed is a ridiculous statement. You know who gassed? Kimbo Slice gassed against Mitrione. He didn't need to be taken to the hospital, Carwin did. Want to know why he had to go to the hospital? Because he overexerted himself due to the adrenaline rush he got in the 1st round to the point that his body wasn't perfusing adequately. Adrenaline can give you almost superhuman abilities, you can't blame Carwin for punching himself out like he did, but you can blame him for not being able to control his emotions in the fight; being prepared mentally is a big part of the fight game, and you can't let yourself fall victim to things like these.

It was a nice read though.


----------



## Majortom505

VolcomX311 said:


> Sounds like PR control to divert the cardio issue.
> 
> Dehydration can make you cramp, but he didn't look cramped while on his feet, unless the cramping coincidentally occurred the moment Lesnar moved into triangle position.
> 
> That's one convenient cramp.


What the Dr just explained was it wasn't his cardio. One can train at 6000 ft and train to run 5 miles everyday. That is cardio.
The Dr said that he wasn't breathing so suffered from O2 depletment. Take that same guy that ran 5 miles and have him an axe to chop at a stump 60 times in 2 mins. He will get a huge adrenaline dump to hit the speed and chances are he will be heaving for air 2 mins later. We know this guy has cardio because we saw him run 5 miles at altitude.
The combination of trying to feed the muscles 02 and not breathing correctly caused 02 depletion. Add the adrenaline dump and people, no matter how fit they are, will crash.
That fight was huge, lots of stuff going on that ramped up the excitement. Big fight for his bosses, himself, perhaps a chance at a dream or really who knows, meant he couldn't calm down, and excited ppl burn more 02.

It wasn't his cardio.

Shane will learn from this fight and come back better. Kind of a scary thought.


----------



## vilify

^^^ If it wasnt his cardio then how is he going to come back better?


----------



## ESPADA9

vilify said:


> ^^^ If it wasnt his cardio then how is he going to come back better?


*Not come in as heavy thus not having to cut so much weight.
*Pace yourself, don’t go anaerobic by throwing power shots, pick your shots and make them count (hard shots that bounce off your opponents gloves don’t really benefit you).
*Remember to breathe, relax, etc.


----------



## G_Land

RFC said:


> Check out my new sig man!!!!!!!!!!


Ah nice!!!!!!


----------



## VolcomX311

Majortom505 said:


> What the Dr just explained was it wasn't his cardio. One can train at 6000 ft and train to run 5 miles everyday. That is cardio.
> The Dr said that he wasn't breathing so suffered from O2 depletment. Take that same guy that ran 5 miles and have him an axe to chop at a stump 60 times in 2 mins. He will get a huge adrenaline dump to hit the speed and chances are he will be heaving for air 2 mins later. We know this guy has cardio because we saw him run 5 miles at altitude.
> The combination of trying to feed the muscles 02 and not breathing correctly caused 02 depletion. Add the adrenaline dump and people, no matter how fit they are, will crash.
> That fight was huge, lots of stuff going on that ramped up the excitement. Big fight for his bosses, himself, perhaps a chance at a dream or really who knows, meant he couldn't calm down, and excited ppl burn more 02.
> 
> It wasn't his cardio.
> 
> Shane will learn from this fight and come back better. Kind of a scary thought.


Actually, what the Dr. explained was his speculation as to the potentials of what he theorizes could have happened. 

Unless the Dr. personally ran tests and examined Carwin immediately after the fight, all he has are speculations, though educated as they may be, it's still speculations. 

If he were reading from a medical chart of Carwin's post fight examinations, then no argument, but he's offering an opinionated observation, not an objective medical diagnoses. 

You can infinitely speculate all the biological, endocrine, physiological, anatomical, biomechanical and even psychological effects a fighter circulates through in a fight. All the Dr. did was apply his educated "opinion," based on what Carwin verbally expressed. 

Bottom line, this article was A verbal opinion about a verbal opinion. A very educated opinion, but opinions are just that.

Regardless whether the Dr. is spot on or not, I already gave Carwin a better chance if a rematch happens. Yes Carwin will improve, but so will Brock. This was the year off, cage rust version of Brock, who is technically, still a green fighter. Assuming Brock makes it past Cain, JDS or Roy, he'll be a more veteran fighter then the fighter Carwin just fought. It will be a better version of Carwin and a better version of Brock in a rematch, so only time will tell. An improved Carwin is scary, but so is an improved version of Brock.

My opinion on Brock's chances against a Carwin II will depend heavily on how he responds to getting hit by Cain.


----------



## mastodon2222

No_Mercy said:


> Two reasons, one he was nervous as hell, second adrenaline dump. I bet a lot on MMA fights usually watching countdowns for clues, old fights, records, but more importantly study their demeanor during weigh ins and especially right before the fight. Unfortunately bets are usually called in way before the fight starts. Carwin was not his usual calm self while Brock was surprisingly calm. Strange as it may sound, but I think Brock broke him mentally when he refused to quit. Something in Carwin just shutdown. Look at him right after the first round ends while he's sitting in his stool. He was dumbfounded and I knew it was over and this is coming from a guy who made two bets on him. He had it...sooo close...but man I gotta give credit to Brock for withstanding that punishment.


I will ditto that - nerves --> adrenaline = nothing left in the tank, you could see it in his face between rounds. Remember, also, that Round 2 is uncharted territory for Carwin.

I know he hit Brock, but I didn't see a solid, flush, ko type of punch that actually wobbled him...to me, it looked more like a couple of grazing blows and Lesnar sort of panicked more than anything...I've only seen it once, though, so I could've missed it -- where/when can we see the replay??


----------



## The Lone Wolf

cdtcpl said:


> So I have been sitting on this question since the beggining of the Carwin/Lesnar fight. When Carwin walked out there was this skinny kid with him who was smiling so big I thought he was going to die of joy. When Carwin was taking off his gear he put his hat on this kid and Carwin smiled at him. The whole time this kids smile is just off the charts.
> 
> After the fight when Carwin and Lesnar were leaving the cage this kid got a chance to shake Lesnars hand and looked even more happy.
> 
> This kid clearly wasn't one of his training partners or coaches, anyone know the story behind this kid? Was it a make a wish kid or something? I am not bagging on him or anything, I just want to know how I can get where that kid was!


Obvious feign of ignorance from the OP, but some serious lol factor :thumbsup:


----------



## jasvll

Soojooko said:


> Anyone remember which episode the sketch was in? I wanna re-watch it for a reminder of the chedder. I'm guessing it was the last...
> 
> Ive got on my rubber gloves and my super strength sunglasses. ( not to mention a full lube tube )... I'm off to mma-core to gross myself out. Wish me luck.


I remember it being from the Prime Time or Countdown shows, not TUF, but I'm not sure.


----------



## G_Land

jasvll said:


> I remember it being from the Prime Time or Countdown shows, not TUF, but I'm not sure.


 
Yeah it was Primetime episode 3


----------



## coldcall420

VolcomX311 said:


> LOL. It's a retrospect bet.


 
Yeah I was def wrong, although if that guy had gas in the tank or "no Cramps" then I think things might have been different....:thumbsup:


----------



## leifdawg

When I posted before the fight that exactly this would happen I was laughed and told that Carwin has great cardio because he trains at altitude.


----------



## leifdawg

coldcall420 said:


> Yeah I was def wrong, although if that guy had gas in the tank or "no Cramps" then I think things might have been different....:thumbsup:


No one has the gas tank to go as hard Carwin was for more than a round. And had he paced himself he might have left him open to Lesnar getting back up or sweeping him.

Edit: sorry about the double post can a mod maybe merge me last two posts here.


----------



## TheBadGuy

Yep, just re-watched it. I laughed the whole time. Especially at the end when they put their hands together, after that cheesy talk from Rashad and screams "Go team" (I'm not sure what they said but that was what i heard)


----------



## G_Land

What ever they chanted Im sure they sneezed glitter right after


----------



## Soojooko

Ok... I'm back.

That was disgusting in the extreme. I thought I would laugh but instead I feel sick.


----------



## Emericanaddict

This thread just made my Fukin DAY! Thank's for a laugh dude. I seriouslly needed this. Epic win via fail = MORE EPIC WIN FOR EVERYONE!


----------



## RFC

The sketch is a masterpiece.


----------



## oldfan

So, what's the real story with Mr. Whitman?

Did Jackson set him up out of town to get rid of him?

Obviously he was high fight night. I imagine that's just how I would look walking out stoned as hell, believing with all my heart that my buddy was about to whip Brocks ass. 

Does he have any credentials outside of Gregg Jackson's endorsement?

:thumbsup: to you guys for taking it easy on his soulmate. lot of material there.


----------



## VAwrestler

What a lot of people don't realize about combat sports, whether it's wrestling, bjj, mma, etc. is how grueling it really is. You can basically consider it all out 100% cardio while power lifting. It's relatively easy to have one or the other, but not many, even pro athletes, can truly have the mix correct. 

I believe his cardio is just fine. I fully believe he got excited when he thought he was about to finish Brock (which i don't care who you are, he was ''<-- that close) and kept punching and punching..mostly landing on his gloves @ that point. 

He will learn to calm down next time. He proved he has the wrestling ability and power to hang with Brock, now just needs to remember to stay calm...


----------



## cdtcpl

leifdawg said:


> No one has the gas tank to go as hard Carwin was for more than a round. And had he paced himself he might have left him open to Lesnar getting back up or sweeping him.


This is the argument I tried to make right after the fight, but people hadn't cooled off yet. Carwin was loading up EVERY SINGLE PUNCH with all the power he could. And since all of his training partners aren't on life support at the hospital we know he didn't train at that level. Funny to say this, but he needs to train with Leben some. One of the things Leben had to learn early was how to not load up every shot.


----------



## VolcomX311

VAwrestler said:


> He proved he has the wrestling ability and power to hang with Brock


That much is certainly true.


----------



## Soojooko

Well, the first pic that comes up in google is:










So, clearly he was a belt polisher before Rashad adopted him and gave him a home.


----------



## xbrokenshieldx

Soojooko said:


> Well, the first pic that comes up in google is:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, clearly he was a belt polisher before Rashad adopted him and gave him a home.


Hahahahahahahahaha. Rep!


----------



## cdtcpl

This thread ended up being much funnier than I thought it would be :laugh:


----------



## BD3

Jesus. Trevor just loving this for some reason. LOL


----------



## leifdawg

Wow, I think thjat's the first time I've seen him not smiling.


----------



## Dream-On-101

This thread is arguably the greatest of all time. 

LOL! He is just the happiest man in the world isnt he.


----------



## michelangelo

Shane had a *"fight or flight response" *(adrenaline rush). This response is designed to help you survive very dangerous situations by giving you a short term boost in energy, but you can't maintain this activity level for more than a few minutes. 

His corner should've reminded him to take some deep breaths in between rounds at the very least. 

I don't think even shouting instructions mid round would have helped. He looked exhausted after a minute and a half.


----------



## Soojooko

BD3 said:


> Jesus. Trevor just loving this for some reason. LOL


In all seriousness... think about it. We have just had 4 AWESOME fights. The crowd would have been electric at this point. Trevor would have come out with Carwin and felt the full sexiness of a pumped up UFC crowd. If I was him, I would be smiling like an idiot also. He must have been buzzing. It was some night.

Shame his boy got lacto acidocidickheaded or whatever it was and got choked out by the Brock.


----------



## BD3

**sigh* Carwin blaming the ref for "adrenaline dump"*

*"Anyone who questions my cardio should come and train with me. We trained for a twenty-five minute fight but things go wrong. It happens. I basically had an adrenaline dump towards the end of the first (round) and I was unable to recover in between rounds.

"I think the biggest factor of the adrenaline dump was hearing Rosenthal say, `Brock I am going to stop it,' and then not stopping it. He said it at least three different points in the round, and each time I went for the finish and it never came. It sucked the wind and life out of me."

"I am the guy that can beat Brock Lesnar.

"This is not a lot different than his first fight with Mir when he was pretty dominant and got caught. I had my body fail me, but I know I can win that fight if I ever get a second chance. Brock has the heart of a champion and he won't break or quit easily. But everyone can be beaten."*

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/7/8/1559450/quote-of-the-day-shane-carwin


Shain, I've always had your back. But, c'mon. Stop. Rosenthal was just doing his job.


*UPDATE Carwin responds on twitter.

*"I don't blame anyone Nate."*


I think Carwin needs to let it go. Put it behind him. Smash through opponents and get another title shot. What do you guys make of all this?


----------



## VolcomX311

michelangelo said:


> Shane had a *"fight or flight response" *(adrenaline rush). This response is designed to help you survive very dangerous situations by giving you a short term boost in energy, but you can't maintain this activity level for more than a few minutes.
> 
> His corner should've reminded him to take some deep breaths in between rounds at the very least.
> 
> I don't think even shouting instructions mid round would have helped. He looked exhausted after a minute and a half.


It's hard not to argue that almost every fighter experiences an adrenaline rush at some point during a fight. Especially considering epinephrine and norepinephrine are functions of the autonomic system, meaning, it's not willingly controlled, but an inherent reaction independent of conscious will, and if anything, by your given definition, Brock is the one that should have had the adrenaline rush, cause he was the only one in danger the entire first round.

I'm not trying to bash Carwin, but c'mon. He over-expended himself in the first round. There's no need for looking to blame his endocrine system or some technical part of his energy system to justify that he made an error in over-expending himself. I think he was right to do so. He had Brock rocked, on his back and trying to survive. Who doesn't try to end a fight at that point, but to his misfortune, Brock survived. It's about as non-technical of an explanation as that. Carwin has never had anyone survive multiple blows from him, so he couldn't have estimated that Brock was going to and based on his own experience and record, you can reasonably see why he would figure if he kept throwing, this Brock will KO soon. You can even argue it was more of a learning experience, as oppose to calling it a horrible error.

If we're going to make the endocrine system the enemy here, then the playing field is still even, because you don't control your autonomic system, therefore, you can argue that almost every fighter suffers from an adrenaline rush and crash at some point of every fight, which would remove this as an excuse for "not gassing," or whatever.


----------



## leifdawg

Soojooko said:


> In all seriousness... think about it. We have just had 4 AWESOME fights. The crowd would have been electric at this point. Trevor would have come out with Carwin and felt the full sexiness of a pumped up UFC crowd. If I was him, I would be smiling like an idiot also. He must have been buzzing. It was some night.
> 
> Shame his boy got lacto acidocidickheaded or whatever it was and got choked out by the Brock.


He had almost the exact same expression on his face in the locker room post fight.


----------



## tlilly

I smell some BJ Pennism....


----------



## box

I think it was pretty well covered in the other carwin lesnar threads. He gassed, simple as that. I don't think he was blaming the ref, he was just explaining why he gassed the way he did. To think the fight is almost over, then to dump everything you got into the finish will do it to ya. I heard the ref yelling it over and over as well, as a fighter i'd dump everything I got also at that point. Gotta give Brock the credit here, he defended well enough to take advantage.


----------



## capsal

this is exactly what i think happened...he was going for the finish and the ref never stopped it.










Definition of Stoppage!


----------



## Dakota?

capsal said:


> this is exactly what i think happened...he was going for the finish and the ref never stopped it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definition of Stoppage!


Brock was intelligently defending himself, thus a stoppage would not have been justified.


----------



## SideWays222

Dakota? said:


> Brock was intelligently defending himself, thus a stoppage would not have been justified.


Turtle Defense isnt an intelligent defense. Only reason it might seem that way is because Brocks arms are so big that you cant get a good hit in.


----------



## KittenStrangler

capsal said:


> this is exactly what i think happened...he was going for the finish and the ref never stopped it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definition of Stoppage!


What? Because he was punching Lesnar's arms? Never at one point did Lesnar go limp or take several hard shots to the head. Carwin was landing punches in intervals. He'd land 2-3 shots to the head then start punching his arms. 

On a side note, Carwin needs to accept defeat already. He's starting to act like Anthony Johnson after his fight with Kos.


----------



## endersshadow

Dakota? said:


> Brock was intelligently defending himself, thus a stoppage would not have been justified.


I don't consider "covering up" intelligently defending yourself. Brock wasn't pushing away with his legs, attempting to gain guard, or even change positions. Brock was protecting himself, but not intelligently (IMO). Not every shot landed but several did get through.


----------



## The Horticulturist

SideWays222 said:


> Turtle Defense isnt an intelligent defense. Only reason it might seem that way is because Brocks arms are so big that you cant get a good hit in.


You pretty much explain why it IS an intelligent defense all on your own.


----------



## boney

*Lets FaCe The Facts Aholes*

LISTEN..CARWIN BEAT THE FUKKK OUT OF BROCK..CHASED HIM LIKE A LIL BITCH.RUNNING SCARED LESNER FELL VICTIM TO CARWINS BULLSHIT INTENSE GPS. GET OVER IT. YES LESNER WON BY BS SUB. STOP THE LESNER NUTTSUCKING..HE WON BY PRAYER.


**** THE CAP LETTERS.:sarcastic12:


----------



## Leed

cool story bro


----------



## Leed

endersshadow said:


> I don't consider "covering up" intelligently defending yourself. Brock wasn't pushing away with his legs, attempting to gain guard, or even change positions. Brock was protecting himself, but not intelligently (IMO). Not every shot landed but several did get through.


Have you seen the fight or did you just watch the gif? He tried to shove him off with his legs several times.


----------



## rean1mator

a beat down like that gets stopped the majority of time in the UFC.



Dakota? said:


> Brock was intelligently defending himself, thus a stoppage would not have been justified.


----------



## capsal

Dakota? said:


> Brock was intelligently defending himself, thus a stoppage would not have been justified.


How exactly is crouching up worse than a turtle in the Gulf of Mexico considered defending yourself? he is just protecting himself from getting hit in the head. I can't count how many fights i have seen that have been stopped in the same scenario.


----------



## The505Butcher

capsal said:


> this is exactly what i think happened...he was going for the finish and the ref never stopped it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definition of Stoppage!


This is the first GIF that does not freeze up my computer and make it all slow. Awesome!

I wouldn't have stopped the fight but I know a couple of refs that would. oh well. Can not wait for the rematch when Carwin knows his limits and destroys Lesnar.


----------



## steveo412

I wanted carwin to win this fight the whole time, but this Ref did an awesome job. Brock was never in serious danger hear, he was never out and kept moving and blocking shots then recovered and won. Perfect Reffing some of the best I have seen.


----------



## michelangelo

This has got to be the lamest argument anyone has EVER POSTED on this forum. "Brock wasn't intelligently defending himself: his arms were!"



SideWays222 said:


> Turtle Defense isnt an intelligent defense. Only reason it might seem that way is because Brocks arms are so big that you cant get a good hit in.


----------



## HexRei

BD3 said:


> *"Anyone who questions my cardio should come and train with me. We trained for a twenty-five minute fight but things go wrong. It happens. I basically had an adrenaline dump towards the end of the first (round) and I was unable to recover in between rounds.
> 
> "I think the biggest factor of the adrenaline dump was hearing Rosenthal say, `Brock I am going to stop it,' and then not stopping it. He said it at least three different points in the round, and each time I went for the finish and it never came. It sucked the wind and life out of me."
> 
> "I am the guy that can beat Brock Lesnar.
> 
> "This is not a lot different than his first fight with Mir when he was pretty dominant and got caught. I had my body fail me, but I know I can win that fight if I ever get a second chance. Brock has the heart of a champion and he won't break or quit easily. But everyone can be beaten."*
> 
> http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/7/8/1559450/quote-of-the-day-shane-carwin
> 
> 
> Shain, I've always had your back. But, c'mon. Stop. Rosenthal was just doing his job.
> 
> 
> *UPDATE Carwin responds on twitter.
> 
> *"I don't blame anyone Nate."*
> 
> 
> I think Carwin needs to let it go. Put it behind him. Smash through opponents and get another title shot. What do you guys make of all this?


He was blaming his own reaction to the ref's words, not the ref. Rosenthal did a great job, Carwin just made a mistake and he knows it.


----------



## sNatch204

tlilly said:


> I smell some BJ Pennism....


BJ Penn has had 1 excuse. And it came after the fight, when everyone including Dana White said that GSP was greasing. He later then watched the video evidence of this, and said something about it. That is a perfectly fine thing to complain about, and you would of ALL done the same thing, if you watched your opponent get vaseline rubbed on him between rounds.


----------



## sNatch204

The505Butcher said:


> This is the first GIF that does not freeze up my computer and make it all slow. Awesome!
> 
> I wouldn't have stopped the fight but I know a couple of refs that would. oh well. Can not wait for the rematch when Carwin knows his limits and destroys Lesnar.


LOL i just noticed Chuck in the Background going nuts. That guy was born to fight man.


----------



## Drogo

When I saw the title I said "This will be a quality post!" and I wasn't disappointed. Please post more.


----------



## HexRei

sNatch204 said:


> BJ Penn has had 1 excuse. And it came after the fight, when everyone including Dana White said that GSP was greasing. He later then watched the video evidence of this, and said something about it. That is a perfectly fine thing to complain about, and you would of ALL done the same thing, if you watched your opponent get vaseline rubbed on him between rounds.


He blamed separated ribs for gassing in his loss to Hughes, and I'm pretty sure he has complained about the ref not stopping his tight armbar at the end of the round in the first Pulver fight.


----------



## thrshr01

Sorry, had to neg rep you and I'm only posting on this thread to tell you this and ask, what is the point? As much as I liked Shane to win, he WAS winning the fight. He dumped all his energy hoping the ref would stop the fight and Brock came back like a champ and subbed Carwin. It doesn't matter if your all bloodied, broken limbs, broken bones, etc. and your opponent doesn't have a scratch...what matters is that your arm is the one that gets raised in the end, and that's what happened in this fight. Sounds like your the one who needs to get over it.


----------



## Thermopyle

capsal said:


> this is exactly what i think happened...he was going for the finish and the ref never stopped it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definition of Stoppage!


I think the fight could have been stopped in the first round, but at this point you show in the fight it would have been premature for a championship fight. I know fights have been stopped for less, but this would have been too early.

Later in the ground and pound, Carwin drops an elbow on Lesnar and Lesnar goes limp, gets freaking heavy punches from Carwin (two or three at least) and then Carwin hesitates. Maybe he thought the ref was going to stop the fight. Lesnar recovers quickly (amazing conditioning, considering his year off) and manages to push Carwin away.

Not sure where the ref was at that point, so maybe he didn't see Lesnar limp for that moment (the ref was switching sides a lot, to get the best look).

I thought it could have been stopped at that point and would not have raised much debate.

My 2 cents.


----------



## Thermopyle

So... now a doctor is making excuses for Shane? What?


----------



## HexRei

^^^and that might be yet another example of why fighters should never stop until the ref orders them to stop. carwin may well have hesitated, thinking lesnar was out.


----------



## Majortom505

Thermopyle said:


> So... now a doctor is making excuses for Shane? What?


Sigh....

An explanation is not an excuse. If they were they wouldn't have different words for them.

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand something happened and there is a reason for it. This is an attempt to explain why he was a Zombie in rd. 2.

I LIKE hearing the reasons things happen and because I know what happened surely does NOT mean it was an excuse.

Why are people so hateful? If this info doesn't interest you, or if you see this as a Shane excuse, you simply don't understand.


----------



## Thermopyle

Majortom505 said:


> Sigh....
> 
> An explanation is not an excuse. If they were they wouldn't have different words for them.
> 
> It doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand something happened and there is a reason for it. This is an attempt to explain why he was a Zombie in rd. 2.
> 
> I LIKE hearing the reasons things happen and because I know what happened surely does NOT mean it was an excuse.
> 
> Why are people so hateful? If this info doesn't interest you, or if you see this as a Shane excuse, you simply don't understand.


Sorry, I was trying to be sarcastic and poke some fun at the Lesnarites who think Carwin is making excuses.


----------



## The505Butcher

Majortom505 said:


> Sigh....
> 
> An explanation is not an excuse. If they were they wouldn't have different words for them.
> 
> It doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand something happened and there is a reason for it. This is an attempt to explain why he was a Zombie in rd. 2.
> 
> I LIKE hearing the reasons things happen and because I know what happened surely does NOT mean it was an excuse.
> 
> Why are people so hateful? If this info doesn't interest you, or if you see this as a Shane excuse, you simply don't understand.


:thumb02: Completely agree. Tried to rep but got to spread.


----------



## Majortom505

Thermopyle said:


> Sorry, I was trying to be sarcastic and poke some fun at the Lesnarites who think Carwin is making excuses.


Sorry.... my bad.


----------



## swpthleg

Majortom505 said:


> If you really feel that he just gassed,then this article just explained to you what gassing is and how gassing happens.


Which is why I found it interesting and edifying.


----------



## Admz

Lesnar's corner greased him after round one. :sarcastic07: and now you know… the rest of the story.

Great read, it's nice to know the science. If it really was an adrenaline dump and not a result of poor cardio this makes a potential rematch much more interesting.

I thought Carwin's gameplan (if there was a plan) to be a bit ogreish, running in there slugging on Brock's cranium hoping it'll turn into mush. Hell it worked his last 12 fights so who can blame him for trying.

Now let's hope he learns to pace himself, he definatly has the other pieces of the puzzle to become an outstanding fighter.


----------



## Indestructibl3

Neat find man, repped


----------



## Diokhan

Blitzz said:


> Another technical read just to sum up that Carwin gassed.





Hiro said:


> So what he's saying is that Carwin gassed. Got it.


you two = win

Nice to see it in details like that, but seriously all this useage of fancy words specially by Carwin's camp in order to defend his lousy cardio/game plan looks just silly. I don't really care what its called, but if a fighter overuses his resources in round 1 and can't keep up anymore in round 2 I label it "gassing out".
Where were you guys when Lutter gassed out against Silva and Franklin? I didn't see this many people patting his back and coloring his failure into something else.


----------



## Shoegazer

Ok, this is pretty late, I realize, but here's my meaningless two cents...

Immediately after watching the fight, I thought perhaps Carwin supporters were right - it was not stopped when it should have been. Having finally had the chance to watch it 3 more times now at my leisure, the ref was 100% correct. 

Brock is clearly hurt, but not defensless through the onslaught. He is NOT mindlessly turtled up or running scared (no more running scared than Bonnar in the earlier fight, and I don't hear anyone complaining about him). He makes eye contact with the ref a couple times, showing he's ok...he's trying to push Shane off of him with arms and legs at several points...his arms are TIGHT and blocking the majority of shots to his head...he even throws a couple weak strikes from the bottom and a leg kick or two before standing up. 

Brock's a bad man, folks. I didn't like him either, believe me...


----------



## Thermopyle

Diokhan said:


> I don't really care what its called, but if a fighter overuses his resources in round 1 and can't keep up anymore in round 2 I label it "gassing out".


Have you been through medical school? Are you a doctor?

If not, no one cares what you label it.


----------



## footodors

Carwin raised his stock while Lesnar's dropped a little aftet their fight in my book.


----------



## Kado

Carwin is not the first fighter to gas. He finally reached his limits. Now he goes back and fixes it. He will have zero problem rebounding, and he will come back swinging.


----------



## Coosh

*Lesnars boxing coach talks about the holes in his striking*

Lesnar hired one of the best boxing trainers in the world, Peter Welch, for his fight with Shane Carwin. Problem is, he only had about two months of training with him which doesn't amount to much as we saw in the Carwin fight. Here's some of what he had to say.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Box...tial-Yet-25546

“Part of our strategy and the things that we worked on in camp limited (Carwin’s) ability to get into those standup exchanges and relied a lot on when he did get (Brock) in a vulnerable position with Brock being up against the cage with his head down,” Welch said. “I just think (Carwin) made the best of the situation he had and he may have gassed out when he put himself in that position.”

"He's going to improve leaps and bounds this camp because he's going to have a perfect strategy,” said Welch. “We've already gone through the introduction period and now we're going to get down and we're going to take care of business at a different level. When you're dealing with athletes at this level it just accelerates the learning. It's actually a privilege and an honor to work with guys like this because they make you look good.”

“If you can't punch in traffic then you're not ready…I've seen Brock do it on numerous occasions. He can punch in traffic and I know it's just a matter of setting the feet and turning it around.”

“His strongest punch? He hasn't shown it yet,” said the Boston-based trainer. “So I'll just leave that as a mystery. In training he's shown a lot of potential to unleash some serious leverage and good snap and good power on his punches. So, it's now a matter of getting Brock comfortable enough to get the repetitions in and he's going to be a force to be reckoned with, not only in striking, but in all areas. It's just a matter of getting the reps in. Once he gets the reps in, he's going to lock it in.”
Reply With Quote


----------



## Kado

Pretty much the analysis most have been giving. Brock is going to get hit everyday now, and hopefully he will learn to hit back in a terrifying matter.


----------



## UFC on VHS

I have to admit im starting to shameleshly jump on the wagon.

Just think of a Lesnar with Carwins power standing, would be terrifying.


----------



## swpthleg

Brock is a natural athlete, but that doesn't mean every aspect of athleticism is going to come to him right away. I'd be amazed if his boxing was ever top-notch.

He can already hit hard. It's more a matter of timing.


----------



## osmium

He could have passable standup one day probably not in time for the Cain fight though. It wouldn't matter anyways because Cain has shown much more rapid improvement as a striker and will be even better by the time the fight comes around. Brock needs this on the ground with him ontop to win.


----------



## MrObjective

There's gassed like breating heavy and tired, and there's acutely coming out lifeless and becoming a statue. 

It's a physiological issue that i'm sure he's rectifying right now. He is old as $hit, never taken any damage in a fight though, he'll come out a better fighter - change dietary habits and respiratory training. The man certainly deserves his payday though, I think he's going to be holding the belt next year.


----------



## Coosh

swpthleg said:


> Brock is a natural athlete, but that doesn't mean every aspect of athleticism is going to come to him right away. I'd be amazed if his boxing was ever top-notch.
> 
> He can already hit hard. It's more a matter of timing.


The timing comes with experience. As his boxing coach said he needs to get the reps in. Two months with a top boxing coach in not nearly enough. You need go over the reps thousands upon thousands of times before the fists and the brain become one and it becomes habitual.

Nobody starting to boxing in their 30's will ever be an elite boxer, but Brock really doesn't need to be. He just needs to get his level up to Carwins or Cains who are by no means elite strikers themselves. The only guy in the UFC HW division that even comes close to qualifying for that is JDS, somebody who has trained in boxing most of his life, but the flipside to that coin is that he'd be a relatively easy fight for the wrestlers as he is highly prone to being taken down.


----------



## Hammerlock2.0

capsal said:


> this is exactly what i think happened...he was going for the finish and the ref never stopped it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definition of Stoppage!


No, that's the definition of blocking every single strike while on the ground and thus intelligently defending yourself. Just because Carwin is throwing a lot of punches doesn't mean the ref should stop it because they're not connecting.


----------



## Coosh

osmium said:


> He could have passable standup one day probably not in time for the Cain fight though. It wouldn't matter anyways because Cain has shown much more rapid improvement as a striker and will be even better by the time the fight comes around. Brock needs this on the ground with him ontop to win.


Cains striking is much better than Brock's but he's at a lot of disadvantages that Carwin had. Brock does not have to remain at a distance with Cain like he did to avoid Carwins power after seeing what he did to Mir. Brock can employ a strategy like he did with Randy Couture and lean on Cain in the clinch where he can more easily secure a takedown. Brock really can end a fight after securing a single TD at this point and Cain will basically have to go the entire fight without Brock getting on top of him. I don't believe Cain has the stopping power to do so.


----------



## MrObjective

swpthleg said:


> Brock is a natural athlete, but that doesn't mean every aspect of athleticism is going to come to him right away. I'd be amazed if his boxing was ever top-notch.
> 
> He can already hit hard. It's more a matter of timing.


It's a matter of footwork, instincts, comfort in throwing combos. He has no precision in his striking, he can knock lesser guys off their feet with a hard jab, but I seriously doubt he ever becomes the caliber of natural boxer that Carwin is.

Brock is a monster, but he's still a Mark Coleman type fighter in the ring...TDs and GnP. Against Cain, I think he can eat his punches, land the jab or clinch him against the cage and finish him with power. I can also see Cain hitting him on the button though and/or getting a swift takedown and controlling Brock.


----------



## osmium

Coosh said:


> Cains striking is much better than Brock's but he's at a lot of disadvantages that Carwin had. Brock does not have to remain at a distance with Cain like he did to avoid Carwins power after seeing what he did to Mir. Brock can employ a strategy like he did with Randy Couture and lean on Cain in the clinch where he can more easily secure a takedown. Brock really can end a fight after securing a single TD at this point and Cain will basically have to go the entire fight without Brock getting on top of him. I don't believe Cain has the stopping power to do so.


I doubt Cain will be willing to play that game like Randy was and I don't think he will be looking to strictly keep it standing. More like tag brock coming in and stuff the takedowns long enough to time some shots of his own. Holding down Mir who didn't even try to get up and a completely gassed Carwin is an entirely different thing from trying to hold down a highly skilled wrestler with a great gas tank. 

Brock's cardio isn't holding out for 5 rounds either not at the pace Cain forces you to fight at. Cain has to survive maybe 2 or 3 rounds depending on how much time he spends on top and then it will be easy pickings.


----------



## michelangelo

That's some optimistic thinking from his training camp, lol.

The reality is, based upon what I've seen, is that Shane has a talent for standup and level of comfort that Brock will likely never have. 

Brock does not like to box, and he HATES to get hit. 

The only chance Brock's opponents have is a) defend his takedowns PERFECTLY, and/or b) catch him early and often as Shane did (minus the exhaustion and ex post facto excuses).


----------



## michelangelo

Cain would have a great chance if Brock didn't outweigh him by 20-30 lbs. There's also a huge strength difference.

Translation: size matters. 



osmium said:


> I doubt Cain will be willing to play that game like Randy was and I don't think he will be looking to strictly keep it standing. More like tag brock coming in and stuff the takedowns long enough to time some shots of his own. Holding down Mir who didn't even try to get up and a completely gassed Carwin is an entirely different thing from trying to hold down a highly skilled wrestler with a great gas tank.
> 
> Brock's cardio isn't holding out for 5 rounds either not at the pace Cain forces you to fight at. Cain has to survive maybe 2 or 3 rounds depending on how much time he spends on top and then it will be easy pickings.


----------



## Coosh

osmium said:


> I doubt Cain will be willing to play that game like Randy was and I don't think he will be looking to strictly keep it standing. More like tag brock coming in and stuff the takedowns long enough to time some shots of his own. Holding down Mir who didn't even try to get up and a completely gassed Carwin is an entirely different thing from trying to hold down a highly skilled wrestler with a great gas tank.
> 
> Brock's cardio isn't holding out for 5 rounds either not at the pace Cain forces you to fight at. Cain has to survive maybe 2 or 3 rounds depending on how much time he spends on top and then it will be easy pickings.


Cain doesn't have the punching power to keep Brock at a distance. Brock can easily eat a couple coming in. Hell, if one among two elite wrestlers wants to clinch it will usually happen anyway. The only reason it didn't happen in the Brock/Carwin fight is because neither fighter wanted it to. Brock structured his gameplan around staying on the outside with Carwin with his jab and shooting on his way in because he figured he'd secure the TD and wanted to avoid Carwins power altogether, and Carwin was comfortable enough in his boxing abilities that he figured he could KO Brock from the outside. If either one of them wanted to clinch they would have.


----------



## No_Mercy

As entertaining as he is all of these fights have shown me that his striking and skills are quite rudimentary. Yet he's winning because he's able to take the fight to the ground through sheer power with the exception of Couture.


----------



## usernamewoman

couture outwrestled brock with skill and technique. lesnar outwrestled couture based on size alone. lesnar still has alot to work on in the standup department, maybe in the next fight well see how far he has come


----------



## BD3

Good stuff, man. I'm glad to hear this. Peter Welch is a hell of a coach. 

Optimism, hard work, and a willingness to learn is what you need to make gains and Brock seems like he's taking this very seriously. That's good to hear.


----------



## limba

Yes...Brock will improve, but not in time for his fight against Cain. He can improve all he wants. The fact is - in the meantime Cain is improving also. And if a may...he is improving at a faster pace than Brock.
Maybe his improvement will make him feel more comfortable on the feet, but if he gets hit a couple of times by Cain and feels he can't do much about that...well, there-s always his wrestling.


----------



## BD3

limba said:


> And if a may...he is improving at a faster pace than Brock.


How so?


----------



## Icculus

Judging by the title I was expecting a longer read


----------



## Dream-On-101

The fact that Brocks striking needs alot of work is no secret, it was there for all to see in the Carwin fight. However there are, i believe, other contributory factors as to why is standup looked poor against Carwin and that it is not strictly limited by a lack of actual technique. The main one i think is that he was actually very, very wary of Carwins power. Overly wary. He didnt want to let his hands go in anyway so as to expose his chin. Carwin doesnt need to wind up to put you down, and Brock was aware of this. Against someone with less brutal KO power, i expect that Brock wouldnt be quite as worried about being hit and could showcase a better level of standup.

He will never be an excellent standup fighter. But the ground is his yard. He only needs to stand long enough to get the takedown and utilise his boxing to set it up. 

I think Brock has better boxing than he showed against Shane, he was just worried about the big shot which is something he wont have to worry about quite as much with Cain. Also, his confidence in his chin will have grown exponentially by recovering from a Carwin onslaught. 

Lots of hard sparring is the only way to go for Brock - get comfortable with being hit and get confidence in your ability to fire back. There is no substitute for sparring. If i where him, with all the money and resources at his disposal, i would consider hiring some elite level boxers and kickboxers to spar with, if he hasnt done this already.

Brock is only going to get better, it really is a privilege to watch his growth as a fighter.


----------



## amoosenamedhank

So are you guys seriously going to do this for every opponent Brock has? So far, every fighter Brock has faced was going to be the one to take him out.... everyone was just so damn sure of it.


----------



## jasvll

HexRei said:


> He blamed separated ribs for gassing in his loss to Hughes, and I'm pretty sure he has complained about the ref not stopping his tight armbar at the end of the round in the first Pulver fight.


But he also said the separated ribs came from him not being conditioned properly.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

I said it before about Lesnar and I'll keep saying at as long as things like this keep happening, the more eclectic his skills become, and the more humble he becomes, the more I'll like him.


----------



## jasvll

So, did no one here see Cyborg Vs. Finney?


----------



## morninglightmt

wat..


----------



## jasvll

morninglightmt said:


> wat..


----------



## capsal

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> No, that's the definition of blocking every single strike while on the ground and thus intelligently defending yourself. Just because Carwin is throwing a lot of punches doesn't mean the ref should stop it because they're not connecting.


He was blocking every single strike?? oh really? thats funny because when the round stopped Brock's face was all puffy and bloodied up! :confused03:


----------



## suffersystem

amoosenamedhank said:


> So are you guys seriously going to do this for every opponent Brock has? So far, every fighter Brock has faced was going to be the one to take him out.... everyone was just so damn sure of it.


Haha, I actually said this in another thread too.


It's not that I care about Brock naysayers, it's the simple fact that with every single opponent, it's the people that say Brock has no chance, so and so weill just walk right through him. Seriously, I know some people want to see him lose, but so far with the remaining HW, UI don't think any of them will walk right through him.


----------



## capsal

the hole in his striking game goes deeper than the hole in the Gulf of Mexico. I just watched the fight again and noticed he did not hit Carwin with a punch even one time in the first round.
Compubox statistics are listed as:

Total Strikes Landed/Thrown 
Shane 58/104
Lesnar 25/35

However they must have counted the slaps from Lesnar or his back because I cant count more than 7 total punches for Lesnar in the entire fight.


----------



## Trix

I thought the first 2 jabs Lesnar threw in the 1st round showed promise. He just didn't have the confidence in his stand up versus Carwin's to risk exposing his chin.


----------



## Godzuki

Soojooko said:


> This stuff makes no sense to me.
> 
> If you would allow me to simplify:
> 
> Body has an energy output at any particular time.
> 
> Body consumes a level of oxygen dependant on breathing.
> 
> IF the athlete can match the energy output with the right levels of oxygen, then all is ok?
> 
> However, exerting too much energy without the right levels of oxygen will result in being Carwined.
> 
> It STILL sounds like gassing to me. Isn't gassing simply when you run out of "gas"... as in oxygen... hence the word "gas-ing"? Carwin used up too much of his energy too quickly in round one. Dozens of fighters have done this before him and come out in round 2 or 3 looking like corpses... yet in every single one of those cases, we call it "Gassing". Now the scientific term for gassing comes to the fore and it seems like we're acting like its a different thing.
> 
> In closing, if Lactic Acidosis is not the scientific term for gassing, then what is?


I think Lactic Acidosis is more comparable to cramp than to "gassing" in the traditional sense. I don't think it was a lack of energy/cardio that messed Carwin up, but his inability to use his energy. Essentially they have the same results but there's a subtle difference.

Carwin said himself after the fight that he didn't feel like he was gassing, but that his body was seizing up and not reacting properly.


----------



## Hammerlock2.0

Lactic acidosis is ALWAYS happening in your body. This thread makes it sound like some mystery disease. Lactic acid is basically (to keep things simple) the stuff that makes your muscles shut down when you can't go anymore. It happens when your breating (=accumulating oxygen) can't keep up with your activity (=spending of oxygen). It happens to everybody at all times. Usually your body is able to neutralize the lactic acid, but when you work too hard it just can't. Your body realizes it and makes your lungs work harder (= breathing heavily). So basically what Carwin had was not lactic acidosis, but hypoxia which in normal English means he was winded.


----------



## Calibretto9

Yeah, the guy gassed. He needs to be putting himself into similar high heart-rate situations in training more often so he becomes accustomed to the feeling.


----------



## The Lone Wolf

All these people saying its the same as gassing are completely off target.

Gassing is when you lack cardio. As Carwin pointed out, his cardio was fine. It was his muscle endurance that failed him. He basically worked his arms so hard that they cramped up. Nothing to do with gassing. Its a chemical reaction in the body.


----------



## leifdawg

The technique is there, he just needs better flow. The knee to the body he threw when rocked was a thing of beauty.

If he can learn to throw and move laterally, he will be a beast.


----------



## The505Butcher

I was not impressed with his stand up chin. He showed he has a chin for GnP shots but he was cowering and running away from that uppercut that did not look like it hit hard at all. This makes me think that if Cain can keep it standing he will win. But Brock can very easily just pull him down and punish him for numerous rounds... 

And if it gets into a downright brawl where both are tired Lesnar wins because he can just hold on for the rest of the rounds. 

In the end I would not be surprised if either won. I just think that Lesnar is going to be tough to beat for Cain.


----------



## BD3

*Referee Josh Rosenthal explains why he didn't stop the Brock Lesnar vs. Shane Carwin*

"[Brock] took some hard shots when they were against the fence. He was looking for a way out. He was blocking some punches. At one point he tried to spin to push Shane away and took a couple shots. And then again, went for a deep half guard position and took a couple more shots. When he curled up after that is when I commanded him to fight back, which at that point he did, and then he went for feet on the hips to push Carwin away and was able to get to his knees. He pretty much ran with it. He heard -- he responded to my commands."

http://www.mmatorch.com/artman2/publish/UFC_2/article_6063.shtml


----------



## SM33

Some hard shots...couple shots...couple more shots... Gonna take something special to KO Lesnar.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

BD3 said:


> "[Brock] took some hard shots when they were against the fence. He was looking for a way out. He was blocking some punches. At one point he tried to spin to push Shane away and took a couple shots. And then again, went for a deep half guard position and took a couple more shots. When he curled up after that is when I commanded him to fight back, which at that point he did, and then he went for feet on the hips to push Carwin away and was able to get to his knees. He pretty much ran with it. He heard -- he responded to my commands."
> 
> http://www.mmatorch.com/artman2/publish/UFC_2/article_6063.shtml



Still shoulda been stopped. 99% of fights would have been. Lying in the fetal position with your hands over your face isn't defending yourself... which he did several times in the first round.


----------



## michelangelo

*QUOTABLES: Referee Josh Rosenthal explains why he didn't stop the Brock Lesnar vs. Shane Carwin bout at UFC 116 in the first round*​
Jul 9, 2010 - 2:24:16 PM

_By: Jamie Penick, MMATorch Editor-in-Chief_


"[Brock] took some hard shots when they were against the fence. He was looking for a way out. He was blocking some punches. At one point he tried to spin to push Shane away and took a couple shots. And then again, went for a deep half guard position and took a couple more shots. When he curled up after that is when I commanded him to fight back, which at that point he did, and then he went for feet on the hips to push Carwin away and was able to get to his knees. He pretty much ran with it. He heard -- he responded to my commands."

-Referee Josh Rosenthal talks to ESPN2's MMA Live about the UFC 116 main event between Brock Lesnar and Shane Carwin and why he didn't stop the fight in the first round. He has been criticized in some circles and praised in others for not stopping the bout.

*
Penick's Analysis: *I maintain that Rosenthal did a fantastic job in this fight. He was absolutely within his rights to stop that fight in the first round, but he had given clear instructions backstage
, and saw that Lesnar was responding to him when he told him to do something and defend the onslaught. He had a great view of the action, could see that Lesnar still had his wits about him and rightfully allowed the fight to continue. Excellent job by Rosenthal in a high profile spot.



Thought I'd add the analysis. Josh did a great job. He gave clear instructions to both fighters ahead of time and told them that they MUST respond to his commands. Brock responded intelligently and did exactly as instructed, which was to defend himself and fight back. Job well done.


----------



## michelangelo

Fights shouldn't be stopped when a fighter is coherent, defending himself by blocking nearly all punches, throwing shots back, gets back up to his feet, then throws a damaging knee and controls his opponent against the cage. 

Oh, and then comes back for a takedown and an arm triangle. 

Do you think BJ Penn was going to come back and triangle choke GSP? Do you think Mur was going to come back to stop Carwin?

Be serious. 



PheelGoodInc said:


> Still shoulda been stopped. 99% of fights would have been.


----------



## Spec0688

PheelGoodInc said:


> Still shoulda been stopped. 99% of fights would have been. Lying in the fetal position with your hands over your face isn't defending yourself... which he did several times in the first round.


Championship fights always go on longer then regular fights, Brock is no exception, it happens all the time. There would be BAD press for the UFC/judging if the ref stopped it and Brock just shot right back to his feet.


----------



## BD3

michelangelo said:


> Fights shouldn't be stopped when a fighter is coherent, defending himself by blocking nearly all punches, throwing shots back, gets back up to his feet, then throws a damaging knee and controls his opponent against the cage.
> 
> Oh, and then comes back for a takedown and an arm triangle.
> 
> Do you think BJ Penn was going to come back and triangle choke GSP? Do you think Mur was going to come back to stop Carwin?
> 
> Be serious.





Spec0688 said:


> Championship fights always go on longer then regular fights, Brock is no exception, it happens all the time. There would be BAD press for the UFC/judging if the ref stopped it and Brock just shot right back to his feet.


Do we really have to feed the troll, guys? This has been covered extensively. And most rational MMA fans agree that it was a good call on Rosenthal's part. For the most part, everyone who thinks it should've been stopped are Brock haters. They always have the same argument that has been discredited time and time again. Just ignore the guy.


----------



## VolcomX311

PheelGoodInc said:


> Still shoulda been stopped. 99% of fights would have been. Lying in the fetal position with your hands over your face isn't defending yourself... which he did several times in the first round.


Staying active only requires that you show an ability to not be defenseless. Also, the current standard for stoppages are horrible. 90% of the time, fights are stopped too soon and you witnessed a rare case of decent reffing.

If Brock went limp while on his back even for a second, then yes, stop the fight, or if his eyes rolled to the back of his head, then yes, or if he isn't reacting by pushing off with his legs, flailing his arms in defense "attempts," then yes.

I think there were multiple instances where Carwin could have finished it if he landed more punches in a row, one after another, but they were too hit & miss, which is great for damage in general, but hurting someone in of itself doesn't justify a TKO if the lights are still clearly on.

I've seen refs stop fights in much less dire circumstances then what Brock was in and I've seen refs let fights go a bit too long, like Carwin/Mir or even Brock/Mir II. Each situation isn't measured to a science, the spectrum of stoppages are all over the place, what seems to make it right or wrong is which side of the fighter you're on. It happens.


----------



## cdtcpl

PheelGoodInc said:


> Still shoulda been stopped. 99% of fights would have been. Lying in the fetal position with your hands over your face isn't defending yourself... which he did several times in the first round.


Turtling up like Mir and not responding to the ref should be stopped. Brock was actively defending himself and trying to improve his position.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

BD3 said:


> Do we really have to feed the troll, guys? This has been covered extensively. And most rational MMA fans agree that it was a good call on Rosenthal's part. For the most part, everyone who thinks it should've been stopped are Brock haters. They always have the same argument that has been discredited time and time again. Just ignore the guy.


Yeah, posting my opinion makes me a troll. Great logic.

All I'm saying is most fights would have been stopped in that situation. I've seen fights stopped for less. Just because it's a championship fight doesn't mean people should take anymore of a beating. I'd like to read that rule somewhere.

I've watched that fight probably 50 times. Each time I could easily see a stoppage happening... and I doubt anyone would have complained.

And yes, I am a Brock hater. That has nothing to do with the fact that the fight should have been stopped. Thats just you trying to point the finger at me instead of the obvious non-stoppage that should have happened.


----------



## cdtcpl

PheelGoodInc said:


> Yeah, posting my opinion makes me a troll. Great logic.
> 
> All I'm saying is most fights would have been stopped in that situation. I've seen fights stopped for less. Just because it's a championship fight doesn't mean people should take anymore of a beating. I'd like to read that rule somewhere.
> 
> I've watched that fight probably 50 times. Each time I could easily see a stoppage happening... and I doubt anyone would have complained.
> 
> And yes, I am a Brock hater. That has nothing to do with the fact that the fight should have been stopped. Thats just you trying to point the finger at me instead of the obvious non-stoppage that should have happened.


I think it does have to do with you being a Brock hater. The first time I watched it (live) I thought it should have been stopped and Brock was lucky. Upon rewatching it several times I see what Rosenthal did and now rank him up there with Herb Dean, Mario Yamasaki, and Big John. Unlike some refs who stop a fight when fighters are still able to fight back Josh issued commands (like the best) and Lesnar responded.

We have seen fights stopped for less, but then again it is usually 

1) Bad reffing
2) or unknown fighters

Both of these men are known and are real pro's, they get to take the leash a lot further than if your or I walked into the UFC today and had a fight.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

I don't see anything that Brock did that qualifies as defending himself intelligently. Covering up and bitching out while a dude wails on you is not defending yourself *intelligently*. This fight should have been stopped. Theres absolutely no reason a guy should be able to get dominated like that and do literally nothing for a round and still be allowed to continue.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

cdtcpl said:


> I think it does have to do with you being a Brock hater. The first time I watched it (live) I thought it should have been stopped and Brock was lucky. Upon rewatching it several times I see what Rosenthal did and now rank him up there with Herb Dean, Mario Yamasaki, and Big John. Unlike some refs who stop a fight when fighters are still able to fight back Josh issued commands (like the best) and Lesnar responded.
> 
> We have seen fights stopped for less, but then again it is usually
> 
> 1) Bad reffing
> 2) or unknown fighters
> 
> *Both of these men are known and are real pro's, they get to take the leash a lot further than if your or I walked into the UFC today and had a fight.*


I keep reading this. Where in the rules does it say that? Where does it say the bigger name you are the more leeway you get when taking a beating? Please... I'd love to see it.


----------



## BD3

cdtcpl said:


> I think it does have to do with you being a Brock hater. The first time I watched it (live) I thought it should have been stopped and Brock was lucky. Upon rewatching it several times I see what Rosenthal did and now rank him up there with Herb Dean, Mario Yamasaki, and Big John. Unlike some refs who stop a fight when fighters are still able to fight back Josh issued commands (like the best) and Lesnar responded.
> 
> We have seen fights stopped for less, but then again it is usually
> 
> 1) Bad reffing
> 2) or unknown fighters
> 
> Both of these men are known and are real pro's, they get to take the leash a lot further than if your or I walked into the UFC today and had a fight.


This is exactly one of the arguments I was talking about. Brock haters and trolls conveniently seem to glance over it.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

BD3 said:


> This is exactly one of the arguments I was talking about. Brock haters and trolls conveniently seem to glance over it.


Actually I responded to it. Maybe you should spend less time calling people Brock haters and Trolls and more time actually debating points.

Pot. Kettle. Black.


----------



## rean1mator

it's my opinion that referees should not go on television for interviews of any kind before or after a very big fight. he needs to just stay out of the limelight.


----------



## BD3

Terror Kovenant said:


> I don't see anything that Brock did that qualifies as defending himself intelligently. Covering up and bitching out while a dude wails on you is not defending yourself *intelligently*. This fight should have been stopped. Theres absolutely no reason a guy should be able to get dominated like that and do literally nothing for a round and still be allowed to continue.


He was intelligently defending himself the whole time. Here's a break down of the GnP second by second I read on another forum to illustrate this point



> 3:45 Round 1, Lesnar goes down.
> 3:39 Lesnar grabs at Carwin's hands, trying to fend of punches
> 
> Total elapsed time of unanswered GnP, 6 seconds, some damaging shots.
> 
> 3:36 Lesnar kicks Carwin off.
> 3:31 Carwin gets side control attempts to drop elbows.
> 3:29 Carwin lands first strike from top
> 3:26 Lesnar fights back
> 3:24 Lesnar grabs at Carwin's hands to fend off punches
> 3:23 Carwin lands a handful more shots
> 3:19 Lesnar grabs again at Carwin's hands
> 3:17 Carwin strikes
> ‎3:16 Lesnar has left arm to ward off Carwin's right already, brings up right arm to try and catch Carwin's left
> 3:13 Carwin rests on top of Brock
> 3:10 Lesnar grabs wrists of Carwin, Carwin postures up looking for an opening
> 3:02 Carwin drops a big elbow, Lesnar brings arms up to defend several punches
> 2:58 Lesnar pushes Carwin off with a hand to the face.
> 2:57 Carwin leans back in to drop punches, Lesnar uses left arm to attempt to grab wrists again, right arm to block face.
> 2:50 Lesnar grabs Carwin's shoulder to stop blows.
> 2:49 Lesnar rolls onto side towards Carwin grabbing at leg and arm to attempt a sweep.
> ‎2:41 Carwin leans forward onto Lesnar, pinning him, no longer punching. Lesnar never stops attempting to maintain defense.
> 2:28 Lesnar grabs Carwin's right wrist again.
> 2:26 Lesnar strikes from the bottom.
> 2:20 Carwin postures up, Lesnar's left arm goes up to attempt to catch arm/ward off punches. Carwin punches down onto Lesnar.
> 2:17 Lesnar strikes from the bottom.
> 2:10 Carwin leans back on Lesnar
> 2:07 Carwin postures up to throw punches
> 2:04 Carwin lands punch to face, Lesnar brings arms up to protect face
> ‎2:04-1:58 Carwin begins punching at Lesnar's arms. Lesnar does nothing but block, however, only a single punch connects anywhere but Lesnar's arms and it is a glancing blow at best. No successful damaging attacks.
> 
> Total unanswered GnP, 6 seconds, no successful damaging shots.
> 
> 1:55 Lesnar moves to defend
> 1:52 Lesnar kicks Carwin off.
> 1:47 lesnar kicks Carwin in the leg from the ground
> 1:45 Carwin attempts to drop down on Lesnar North/South. Lesnar scrambles to side control, controls Carwin's arm.
> 1:37 Carwin to half guard, Lesnar defending.
> 1:30 Lesnar strikes from the bottom, Carwin no longer attacking.
> 1:24 Lesnar strikes from the bottom
> 1:20-1:15 Lesnar strikes from the bottom
> 1:11 Carwin attempts to free his leg to pass out of half guard, Lesnar scrambles to a sitting position, Carwin attempts to transition to back control.
> 1:06 Lesnar scrambles out of back control, makes it to his feet.
> 
> As you can see, there was no point in the match where Lesnar turtled up and stopped defending himself. Carwin landed a few unanswered blows when Lesnar initially stumbled and dropped, but Lesnar was back and actively defending within a reasonable amount of time.
> 
> Absolutely a good call on not stopping the fight. There's no valid argument otherwise.


----------



## cdtcpl

PheelGoodInc said:


> I keep reading this. Where in the rules does it say that? Where does it say the bigger name you are the more leeway you get when taking a beating? Please... I'd love to see it.


Whole different topic, but no it doesn't, what it does is allow Ref's discression. And so the more comfortable a ref is with a fighter the more likely they are to let the fight go on longer. Take a look at Griffin vs Ortiz 1, if the ref wasn't so comfortable in the amount of damage Griffin could take he would have stopped it.

But also to counter your point, where does it say "If not stopping a fight could make people on internet forums angry the for the love of all that is holy stop it!". 

The rule actually give almost everything to the ref's discression. The ref can take points based on how he feels an action was done. We have seen GSP kick Matt Hughes in the nuts 3 times in a round and not lose a point, Kongo clearly knee someone in the nuts for retaliation and no point loss, but some fighters lose a point on their first one because the ref "felt" it was on purpose (this is not common, usually 2nd one on gets it). I know you don't agree with the Ref, or myself, or anyone else who thinks it was a good job Ref kept the fight going, so I will stop here and just say that we disagree and so be it.


----------



## dav35

PheelGoodInc said:


> I've watched that fight probably 50 times. Each time I could easily see a stoppage happening... and I doubt anyone would have complained.


But, the stoppage never came, and Brock survived/went on to win the fight. This fact alone tells me it was a good call. 

If Brock was able to come back, then Carwin didn't do a good enough job ending the fight. Do you dispute this?

I agree in the sense that if you put two lesser profile fighters in there that the fight would probably be stopped more times than not. However, this is a championship match and Brock is the Champion. You have to put him away without a doubt to have the fight stopped. That's just my 2 cents.


----------



## HexRei

PheelGoodInc said:


> I keep reading this. Where in the rules does it say that? Where does it say the bigger name you are the more leeway you get when taking a beating? Please... I'd love to see it.


The referee's discretion in stopping a fight is a subtle thing and not something that, as far as I know, is well-defined enough (in the Unified Rules or elsewhere) to say whether this fight should have been stopped or not. I've heard refs say they take their knowledge of a particular fighter and their abilities into account when making calls. 

But either way, I think Rosenthal's explanation was perfectly reasonable.


----------



## The505Butcher

cdtcpl said:


> Whole different topic, but no it doesn't, what it does is allow Ref's discression. And so the more comfortable a ref is with a fighter the more likely they are to let the fight go on longer. Take a look at Griffin vs Ortiz 1, if the ref wasn't so comfortable in the amount of damage Griffin could take he would have stopped it.
> 
> But also to counter your point, where does it say "If not stopping a fight could make people on internet forums angry the for the love of all that is holy stop it!".
> 
> The rule actually give almost everything to the ref's discression. The ref can take points based on how he feels an action was done. We have seen GSP kick Matt Hughes in the nuts 3 times in a round and not lose a point, Kongo clearly knee someone in the nuts for retaliation and no point loss, but some fighters lose a point on their first one because the ref "felt" it was on purpose (this is not common, usually 2nd one on gets it). I know you don't agree with the Ref, or myself, or anyone else who thinks it was a good job Ref kept the fight going, so I will stop here and just say that we disagree and so be it.


This:thumbsup:

I wanted the fight to end because I think Carwin is awesome. But there are points for stopping the fight and letting it go on. I would have let it go on and I know a lot of people who would have stopped it. 

I feel ok though because Carwin will own in the rematch!:thumb02:


----------



## Budhisten

I don't think anybody want to look in to the eyes of a clearly consious Lesnar and say
Josh: "I stopped the fight because I though he was hurting you"

Lesnar: "LESNAR SMASH! GWARGGH!"

But in all seriousness, I think Josh did a great job... As proved by the eventual winner of the match being Lesnar, not Carwin


----------



## boney

*On The Brock Subject*

CAN WE PLEASE SEE CARWIN FINISH WHAT HE STARTED????

this would be great. seeing brocky boy running again.:thumb02:

REMATCH LET'S GO......


----------



## Budhisten

Haven't we seen this topic a couple of times already?

No hate, just wondering


----------



## Spec0688

on the brock subject... WHY CREATE ANOTHER TOPIC THAT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED IN 30 OTHER PAGES????????? 

DELETE LETS GO.....


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5

The only time a fight should be stopped is when the fighter's health is in danger. Brock's obviously wasnt because he remained conscious and even won the fight.


----------



## Budhisten

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> The only time a fight should be stopped is when the fighter's health is in danger. Brock's obviously wasnt because he remained conscious and even won the fight.


Excactly - what this gentleman said


----------



## Calroid

Josh Rosenthal is an experienced referee in MMA. 

He had a closer view of the action than anyone else.

He was there live so he could truly "feel" what the situation was.

He decided that the fight should have been stopped. 

Lesner went on to win the fight.

It does not appear that Lesner has suffered any potential long term effects because of the fight continuing.

I really don't know how anyone argue that this fight should have been stopped in the first round and truly believe what they are saying.



Regardless, the fight wasn't stopped.

Lesner won.

Time to move on.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

BD3 said:


> Do we really have to feed the troll, guys? This has been covered extensively. And most rational MMA fans agree that it was a good call on Rosenthal's part. For the most part, everyone who thinks it should've been stopped are Brock haters. They always have the same argument that has been discredited time and time again. Just ignore the guy.





cdtcpl said:


> I think it does have to do with you being a Brock hater. The first time I watched it (live) I thought it should have been stopped and Brock was lucky. Upon rewatching it several times I see what Rosenthal did and now rank him up there with Herb Dean, Mario Yamasaki, and Big John. Unlike some refs who stop a fight when fighters are still able to fight back Josh issued commands (like the best) and Lesnar responded.
> 
> We have seen fights stopped for less, but then again it is usually
> 
> 1) Bad reffing
> 2) or unknown fighters
> 
> Both of these men are known and are real pro's, they get to take the leash a lot further than if your or I walked into the UFC today and had a fight.





BD3 said:


> This is exactly one of the arguments I was talking about. Brock haters and trolls conveniently seem to glance over it.


I love how as soon as someone says anything bad about Brock, they are immediately labeled a "brock hater" or a "troll". It is called an opinion for those that are getting confused. His opinion about the fight is no better or worse than yours. That is why they are opinions and everyone is entitled to one.

I for one agree that the fight should have been stopped. Does that make me a troll? Absolutely not. I said nothing bad about Lesnar, and I am not trying to evoke a negative reaction from anyone here. Lesnar showed heart and it was an awesome win regardless. I as well as others disagree with the ref's decision. Big deal.


----------



## Term

cdtcpl said:


> The first time I watched it (live) I thought it should have been stopped and Brock was lucky. Upon rewatching it several times I see what Rosenthal did and now rank him up there with Herb Dean, Mario Yamasaki, and Big John.


Not sure about change Rosenthal's ranking, but I thought the same thing when I first watched the fight. I thought he was lucky it didn't get stopped, in fact I was sure the ref was about to any second. Since re watching it, and trying to be objective, I agree with Rosenthal. I think he did a good job.


----------



## michelangelo

The question is what logic do you bring to the table as a critique of the ref's decision not to stop?

There is clear precedent of refs giving fighters the benefit of the doubt before stopping, whether it's the champ (Lesnar) or the opponent (BJ Penn), in title fights.

Second, the ref gave clear instructions as to what a fighter must do to avoid stoppage to both combatants before the fight.

Third, he gave those instructions during the fight itself and Brock complied immediately and intelligently. 

Fourth, Brock was smiling, laughing, hi fiving and bouncing on his feet at the start of the second.

Fifth, even prior to the end of the first, Brock had gotten back up to his feet, controlled the action against the cage, and even landed a hard knee. 

Sixth, in between rounds, Brock is clearly coherent, even calm when his corner asks him how he's doing. 

Josh's refing was par for the course in a title fight; he stayed out of the action as long as both fighters remained coherent and able to initiate botn a meaningful offense and defense. 

No one begrudges you for having an opinion, just back it up with facts. 



HitOrGetHit said:


> I love how as soon as someone says anything bad about Brock, they are immediately labeled a "brock hater" or a "troll". It is called an opinion for those that are getting confused. His opinion about the fight is no better or worse than yours. That is why they are opinions and everyone is entitled to one.
> 
> I for one agree that the fight should have been stopped. Does that make me a troll? Absolutely not. I said nothing bad about Lesnar, and I am not trying to evoke a negative reaction from anyone here. Lesnar showed heart and it was an awesome win regardless. I as well as others disagree with the ref's decision. Big deal.


----------



## _RIVAL_

HitOrGetHit said:


> I love how as soon as someone says anything bad about Brock, they are immediately labeled a "brock hater" or a "troll". It is called an opinion for those that are getting confused. His opinion about the fight is no better or worse than yours. That is why they are opinions and everyone is entitled to one.
> 
> I for one agree that the fight should have been stopped. Does that make me a troll? Absolutely not. I said nothing bad about Lesnar, and I am not trying to evoke a negative reaction from anyone here. Lesnar showed heart and it was an awesome win regardless. I as well as others disagree with the ref's decision. Big deal.


Very well said.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

michelangelo said:


> The question is what logic do you bring to the table as a critique of the ref's decision not to stop?
> 
> There is clear precedent of refs giving fighters the benefit of the doubt before stopping, whether it's the champ (Lesnar) or the opponent (BJ Penn), in title fights.
> 
> Second, the ref gave clear instructions as to what a fighter must do to avoid stoppage to both combatants before the fight.
> 
> Third, he gave those instructions during the fight itself and Brock complied immediately and intelligently.
> 
> Fourth, Brock was smiling, laughing, hi fiving and bouncing on his feet at the start of the second.
> 
> Fifth, even prior to the end of the first, Brock had gotten back up to his feet, controlled the action against the cage, and even landed a hard knee.
> 
> Sixth, in between rounds, Brock is clearly coherent, even calm when his corner asks him how he's doing.
> 
> Josh's refing was par for the course in a title fight; he stayed out of the action as long as both fighters remained coherent and able to initiate botn a meaningful offense and defense.
> 
> No one begrudges you for having an opinion, just back it up with facts.


You can see in earlier posts where people are called trolls for saying they felt that the fight should have been stopped. 

Since there is no clear rule for a fight stoppage in this particular situation, it is the opinion of someone watching as to whether or not the fight should have been stopped since everyone has a different perspective. Yes, there were times when Brock attempted to improve position, but I felt for the most part that he was just taking a beating and trying to merely survive. I also feel like most other fights would have been stopped. It is very apparent from other championship fights as well that they are more lenient when stopping a fight.

But again this is just my opinion, and as stated before, what constitutes intelligently defending yourself, is completely up to the person who is thinking about it. This is why there are different opinions on the matter everywhere. It was my opinion that he was not intelligently defending himself other then covering up and trying every very few times to get out of danger.


----------



## cdtcpl

HitOrGetHit said:


> I love how as soon as someone says anything bad about Brock, they are immediately labeled a "brock hater" or a "troll". It is called an opinion for those that are getting confused. His opinion about the fight is no better or worse than yours. That is why they are opinions and everyone is entitled to one.
> 
> I for one agree that the fight should have been stopped. Does that make me a troll? Absolutely not. I said nothing bad about Lesnar, and I am not trying to evoke a negative reaction from anyone here. Lesnar showed heart and it was an awesome win regardless. I as well as others disagree with the ref's decision. Big deal.


I didn't label him a "Brock hater", he did. I just stated that I believe his bias was affecting his view on this argument.


----------



## Thermopyle

dav35 said:


> However, this is a championship match and Brock is the Champion. You have to put him away without a doubt to have the fight stopped. That's just my 2 cents.


This is where the fine line begins to bother me.

Live I was screaming, "Stop the fight! Stop the fight!" That's because I was pulling for Carwin. I've watched the fight at least a dozen times since and I do believe that the fight could have been stopped in the first round. But, I don't think the fight was rigged, or that Carwin got robbed, or that Rosenthal blew the non-stoppage.

The bottom line is this is a violent and brutal sport. If Shane Carwin wants that belt, it is up to him to do whatever it takes in a given fight, no matter how violent and how brutal the action may be, to make the referee stop the fight.

That said, I'd hate to see it come to the point that a fighter has to beat on Brock until he shuts off completely, just to get the belt. That's not good for the sport. That won't be good for Brock Lesnar, either.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

cdtcpl said:


> I didn't label him a "Brock hater", he did. I just stated that I believe his bias was affecting his view on this argument.





cdtcpl said:


> *I think it does have to do with you being a Brock hater.* The first time I watched it (live) I thought it should have been stopped and Brock was lucky. Upon rewatching it several times I see what Rosenthal did and now rank him up there with Herb Dean, Mario Yamasaki, and Big John. Unlike some refs who stop a fight when fighters are still able to fight back Josh issued commands (like the best) and Lesnar responded.
> 
> We have seen fights stopped for less, but then again it is usually
> 
> 1) Bad reffing
> 2) or unknown fighters
> 
> Both of these men are known and are real pro's, they get to take the leash a lot further than if your or I walked into the UFC today and had a fight.


It would be one thing if he said he was a Brock Hater and was the only one saying it should have been stopped, but there are plenty of people who agree that it should have been stopped including me. I am not a huge fan of Lesnar, but I in no way hate him and I realize that it was a good win and he has a great skill set. I just think it should have been stopped.

I can tell you that I dislike some fighters and I have favorite fighters, but I can still have an unbiased opinion about them.


----------



## michelangelo

I hear what you're saying now.

I simply pointed out that a) the ref had given clear, even explicit guidelines to both fighters before the fight and that both fighters were responsive to his commands during the fight, and 

b) the ref's guidelines for stoppage were in line with the precedent set in previous title fights, which establishes clear boundaries between title fights and non title fights. 

Whether that distinction should be erased in the future is a matter of debate. Which is what we have here. 



HitOrGetHit said:


> You can see in earlier posts where people are called trolls for saying they felt that the fight should have been stopped.
> 
> Since there is no clear rule for a fight stoppage in this particular situation, it is the opinion of someone watching as to whether or not the fight should have been stopped since everyone has a different perspective. Yes, there were times when Brock attempted to improve position, but I felt for the most part that he was just taking a beating and trying to merely survive. I also feel like most other fights would have been stopped. It is very apparent from other championship fights as well that they are more lenient when stopping a fight.
> 
> But again this is just my opinion, and as stated before, what constitutes intelligently defending yourself, is completely up to the person who is thinking about it. This is why there are different opinions on the matter everywhere. It was my opinion that he was not intelligently defending himself other then covering up and trying every very few times to get out of danger.


----------



## creepjacker

I GUARANTEE Brock will have a better game plan next time. All Brock need to learn is how to open up take downs with basic striking, kinda like GSP, and it's all in the bag.

Carwin literally gave Brock everything he had, he even said so. What makes you think he will suddenly have more to give? Don't forget too, Brock hadn't fought in a year, and 6 months of which was spend just trying to survive. Brock will be back bigger and badder than ever.


----------



## Majortom505

PheelGoodInc said:


> Still shoulda been stopped. 99% of fights would have been. Lying in the fetal position with your hands over your face isn't defending yourself... which he did several times in the first round.


I'll bet half my credits that you detest Brock. Brock followed instructions, both pre-fight and in-fight. Why would you want a fight stopped when it is clear one man isn't out? It's absurd.
You Brock haters just make every thread about Brock unbearable. MF Hell.


----------



## justmike79

Hiro said:


> If it's not an excuse, why bother saying it? It doesn't change anything, it was Carwin's fault that he lost and whether that was because he simply got owned, gassed or had lactic acidosis doesn't matter now. Broadcasting that useless piece of information does nothing for anyone, only fuels the heat on Brock. Kinda like... an excuse, no?
> 
> They should have kept quiet imo, excuses like 'he didn't breathe properly' are lame. They say not to take away from Brock's win but that's exactly what they're doing.


omfg this is what bothers me about Brock fans. If anybody says anything that in anyway could be taken in a negative way you guys instantly throw "your just a hater flag". get the f&ck over it already. It has already gotten to the point where we cant even have an intellegent conversation cause you guys get all up in arms the second BL's name is even brought up. So for every1 out there who thinks that the whole world is out to get BL cause they are "haters" get over yourselves.


----------



## Thermopyle

creepjacker said:


> Brock will be back bigger and badder than ever.


But Carwin will be back the same? It's a two way street.


----------



## cdtcpl

HitOrGetHit said:


> It would be one thing if he said he was a Brock Hater and was the only one saying it should have been stopped, but there are plenty of people who agree that it should have been stopped including me. I am not a huge fan of Lesnar, but I in no way hate him and I realize that it was a good win and he has a great skill set. I just think it should have been stopped.
> 
> I can tell you that I dislike some fighters and I have favorite fighters, but I can still have an unbiased opinion about them.


Funny, but if you look in my post I quote where he says it.



PheelGoodInc said:


> *And yes, I am a Brock hater.*


I do not hate Carwin at all, and even when I do hate fighters I try to critique fairly. Carwin had his chance and as I said, upon first viewing I thought it should have been stopped. But when I rewatched it I then changed my mind as I wasn't amped up with the rush from the action and saw that Rosenthal did do a good job.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

cdtcpl said:


> Funny, but if you look in my post I quote where he says it.
> 
> 
> 
> I do not hate Carwin at all, and even when I do hate fighters I try to critique fairly. Carwin had his chance and as I said, upon first viewing I thought it should have been stopped. But when I rewatched it I then changed my mind as I wasn't amped up with the rush from the action and saw that Rosenthal did do a good job.


I saw that he said it, that's why I said that he said it in my post, just forgot to take the bolded part out. :thumbsup:

I was pointing out that it is hard to say that he is being biased when there is a good number of people on both sides of the argument unless you are assuming that everyone that thought it should have been stopped are all Brock haters. Because there are plenty of people, including myself, who do not hate Brock, but still feel that the fight should have been stopped.


----------



## cdtcpl

HitOrGetHit said:


> I saw that he said it, that's why I said that he said it in my post, just forgot to take the bolded part out. :thumbsup:
> 
> I was pointing out that it is hard to say that he is being biased when there is a good number of people on both sides of the argument unless you are assuming that everyone that thought it should have been stopped are all Brock haters. Because there are plenty of people, including myself, who do not hate Brock, but still feel that the fight should have been stopped.


I can agree that people have varying opinions, but either way I don't feel it is as cut and dry as some people make it out to be. I guess that is why I was arguing with some. I think that the ref made this fight, but for once in a positive manner. This, for me, was a fight that showed the difference between an awesome ref and half the refs in the UFC. But nonetheless, we can agree to disagree and when these 2 face in the future we will see how it plays out that time!


----------



## HaVoK

PheelGoodInc said:


> Still shoulda been stopped. 99% of fights would have been. Lying in the fetal position with your hands over your face isn't defending yourself... which he did several times in the first round.


I disagree completely. Which proves how subjective the issue is. Its not a matter of fact. Brock did enough in my eyes and in the eyes of many. People will agree with you as well. Only goes to show there is no right or wrong answer regarding this situation. People seem to forget Brock was able to get back to his feet in the same round. If you have watched enough fights that should tell you a lot. At least I hope so...I dont feel like explaining it.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

cdtcpl said:


> I can agree that people have varying opinions, but either way I don't feel it is as cut and dry as some people make it out to be. I guess that is why I was arguing with some. I think that the ref made this fight, but for once in a positive manner. This, for me, was a fight that showed the difference between an awesome ref and half the refs in the UFC. But nonetheless, we can agree to disagree and when these 2 face in the future we will see how it plays out that time!


That is all that I want is for people to agree to disagree when it comes to things like this where neither side will budge. :thumbsup:


----------



## capsal

Someone should put Rosenthal in jail for robbing Carwin of his well deserved win!

Some of you agree that if they were less known fighters and a non-championship fight then it would have been stopped. That is straight up nonsense. The ref job is to be as objective as possible and there should be more defined rules of when a fight should be stopped. Looking at the time lapsed between the time Brock received the first punch that knocked him down to the time he "defended" himself by kicking Carwin off there were exaclty 10 seconds of nothing but hammers to the head.


----------



## HexRei

he was covering, i dont think those punches were landing very clean. and covering is considered an intelligent defense as long as there is an attempt to move to a better position which is exactly what brock did.


----------



## rockybalboa25

HexRei said:


> he was covering, i dont think those punches were landing very clean. and covering is considered an intelligent defense as long as there is an attempt to move to a better position which is exactly what brock did.


You're right. I don't think you should stop a fight from repeated blows to the forearms.


----------



## KillingRoad89

if a few more clean shots would of landed lesnar would of been done. He covered up pretty good though, a lot of shots hit his forearms.


----------



## Spec0688

capsal said:


> Someone should put Rosenthal in jail for robbing Carwin of his well deserved win!
> 
> Some of you agree that if they were less known fighters and a non-championship fight then it would have been stopped. That is straight up nonsense. The ref job is to be as objective as possible and there should be more defined rules of when a fight should be stopped. Looking at the time lapsed between the time Brock received the first punch that knocked him down to the time he "defended" himself by kicking Carwin off there were exaclty 10 seconds of nothing but hammers to the head.


How many of those shots were actually clean though? A majority of those were blocked or deflected, which reduced the damage of the punch.


----------



## sillywillybubba

HitOrGetHit said:


> I love how as soon as someone says anything bad about Brock, they are immediately labeled a "brock hater" or a "troll". It is called an opinion for those that are getting confused. His opinion about the fight is no better or worse than yours. That is why they are opinions and everyone is entitled to one.
> 
> I for one agree that the fight should have been stopped. Does that make me a troll? Absolutely not. I said nothing bad about Lesnar, and I am not trying to evoke a negative reaction from anyone here. Lesnar showed heart and it was an awesome win regardless. I as well as others disagree with the ref's decision. Big deal.


you are the biggest troll i have ever seen.....EVER! Brock is God deal with it. he won he won he won...you cant change it by talking all that smack about him. i think your doing this on purpose, you know i wont be able to sit here and not get fired up with your negativity .... it takes the fun out of it when people make rational and good points raise01:...brock won this time...next time if there is a rematch, carwin should figure out a way to get in back to back to back solid shots and knock brock out, then there will be no second guessing.
I definitly would never refer to hitorgethit as a troll. **this was sarcasm**


----------



## looney liam

lesnar's striking isn't nearly as bad as his last fight would have you believe. he had just overcame a career threatening illness, and he's never dealt with someone with as much power as carwin. i seriously doubt cain could make lesnar run, cower and ultimately drop to fetal postion like carwin did.

cain will definately outstrike lesnar, that much is obvious. his power won't really affect lesnar though unless he just hangs his chin in the air waiting to be punched. lesnar has shown power against couture and herring, so its not that unlikely lesnar could land a punch and rock cains world. i actually think cain will use his strikes to get the takedown and take advantage of brocks biggest weakness, fighting from his back.

brock has absolutely no offence off his back, the only thing he can do is get back too his feet. with cain throwing relentless gnp and constantly looking to advance position its going to be very hard for brock to get back up. brocks at his worst when he's being hit, his technique goes out the window. when getting hit he can't get a decent takedown, can't effectively pull guard etc. thats what cain needs to take advantage of.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

I'm getting tired of the accusations of "Brock hate" if you disagree with the refs decision. I would have argued for a fight stoppage even if that was my favorite fighter undertaking that engineering ****. Sure some of the shots were blocked, but the fact is Carwin remained in a dominant position, doing damage, and being aggressive while Brock simply sat there defenseless. He took a long time to actively work to improve his position. The duration of inactivity on his part warrants a stoppage due to the lack of intelligent defense. That is not Brock hate. Don't act like you're from Salem.


----------



## fjurado

Brock had the worse head movement and Shane beat him to every punch. Brock also closed his eyes backing up from punches thrown at him. I see another GSP with no stand up but all matches will be won on the ground with dominance.


----------



## Life B Ez

Thermopyle said:


> But Carwin will be back the same? It's a two way street.


----------



## kay_o_ken

some of you guys seem to forget that stoppages are only in place for the sake of the fighters health to prevent unneeded damage, idealy they only occur when one fighter would have gotten the KO on there own anyways, carwin clearly didnt accomplish that therefore a stoppage was not needed

though if the fight had been stopped i dont think it would have been a terrible call but thats the difference between good reffing and exellent reffing i guess


----------



## Terror Kovenant

^ lol gif is hilarious


----------



## JustLo

Quick! Quick! Stop the fight! Brock's forearms are getting really red and bruised! This is ******* serious he could get a concussion!


Idiots.


----------



## RKiller

Carwin had Brock rocked when he intially hit the mat. It was Carwin's job to captialize on that and finish Brock. Soon after initially being dropped Brock began to recover mainly because most of the GnP was either being blocked or missing him. Seeing as he was not really in danger as Carwin began to lose steam and was actively pushing him away with his legs and showing the ref he was still in fight, I find it hard to believe that some wanted this fight stopped. Carwin *couldn't* finish Brock. Brock was in a bad spot and could have defended himself better, but he stayed conscious and was able to not be overwhelmed by the situation. He showed why the fight wasn't stopped when he was able to not only get to his feet, but quickly finish Carwin the second round.


----------



## capsal

JustLo said:


> Quick! Quick! Stop the fight! Brock's forearms are getting really red and bruised! This is ******* serious he could get a concussion!
> 
> 
> Idiots.


yeah sure! his arms were getting hit and his face miraculously became blody and swelled.
Dumbass!


----------



## Mr. White

PheelGoodInc said:


> All I'm saying is most fights would have been stopped in that situation. I've seen fights stopped for less. Just because it's a championship fight doesn't mean people should take anymore of a beating.


Yes it does. It's because it is a championship fight that the ref will allow the fight to go on longer. Basically a "Let them fight!" approach that most refs take on championship bouts. Even more so when two high profile fighters take the stage. As such in Boxing.


----------



## BD3

Gracie Breakdown of the Submission


----------



## rabakill

The505Butcher said:


> I was not impressed with his stand up chin. He showed he has a chin for GnP shots but he was cowering and running away from that uppercut that did not look like it hit hard at all. This makes me think that if Cain can keep it standing he will win. But Brock can very easily just pull him down and punish him for numerous rounds...
> 
> And if it gets into a downright brawl where both are tired Lesnar wins because he can just hold on for the rest of the rounds.
> 
> In the end I would not be surprised if either won. I just think that Lesnar is going to be tough to beat for Cain.


That's just Carwin's power, not Brock's chin. Brock took some knees from Mir and didn't crumple, Carwin has anvils for fists.


----------



## UrbanBounca

Lesnar responded to Rosenthal, which is exactly what Rosenthal wanted to keep the fight alive. It could've been stopped, but it was excellent ref'ing in my opinion.


----------



## MikeHawk

The whole "most fights would've been stopped" thing is kinda bullshit IMO. Just because a lot of other fights have been stopped prematurely doesn't mean this one should have been.


----------



## MrObjective

BD3 said:


> "[Brock] took some hard shots when they were against the fence. He was looking for a way out. He was blocking some punches. At one point he tried to spin to push Shane away and took a couple shots. And then again, went for a deep half guard position and took a couple more shots. When he curled up after that is when I commanded him to fight back, which at that point he did, and then he went for feet on the hips to push Carwin away and was able to get to his knees. He pretty much ran with it. He heard -- he responded to my commands."
> 
> http://www.mmatorch.com/artman2/publish/UFC_2/article_6063.shtml



Very acceptable. 

Brock showed a granite chin and recovery, although the finish was nothing spectacular. Carwin is the oddsmaker favorite in a rematch


----------



## rockybalboa25

capsal said:


> yeah sure! his arms were getting hit and his face miraculously became blody and swelled.
> Dumbass!


Did some shots get through? Yes. Enough to finish Lesnar? no. If blood bothers you why wasn't Bonnar's fight stopped?


----------



## mohammadmoofty

BD3 said:


> "[Brock] took some hard shots when they were against the fence. He was looking for a way out. He was blocking some punches. At one point he tried to spin to push Shane away and took a couple shots. And then again, went for a deep half guard position and took a couple more shots. When he curled up after that is when I commanded him to fight back, which at that point he did, and then he went for feet on the hips to push Carwin away and was able to get to his knees. He pretty much ran with it. He heard -- he responded to my commands."
> 
> http://www.mmatorch.com/artman2/publish/UFC_2/article_6063.shtml


thanks for posting, i always find the refs' view on any fights' really interesting.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

rockybalboa25 said:


> Did some shots get through? Yes. Enough to finish Lesnar? no. If blood bothers you why wasn't Bonnar's fight stopped?


Pretty sure that was a reply to someone who was saying all Carwins punches were doing was hitting Brock's forearms.

I'm also pretty sure he never said anything about blood being a reason to end the fight.

I'm also pretty sure that Bonnar's fight has absolutely nothing to do with what anyone said.

As far as the punches not being enough to end the fight is a matter of opinion. Several ref's would have stopped that fight. Several others would not.


----------



## UFC_OWNS

if it was a bad call then brock would have still lost


----------



## rockybalboa25

UFC_OWNS said:


> if it was a bad call then brock would have still lost


What do you mean still lost?


----------



## HexRei

rockybalboa25 said:


> What do you mean still lost?


his wording was confusing but i think he meant that if it was a bad call, brock would have lost regardless of the leniency because he would have been pounded out instead of defending and standing up.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

kay_o_ken said:


> some of you guys seem to forget that stoppages are only in place for the sake of the fighters health to prevent unneeded damage, idealy they only occur when one fighter would have gotten the KO on there own anyways, carwin clearly didnt accomplish that therefore a stoppage was not needed
> 
> though if the fight had been stopped i dont think it would have been a terrible call but thats the difference between good reffing and exellent reffing i guess


This is not entirely true. At times when a fighter is merely covering up and not responding, he could still be blocking everything, but if they are doing nothing but blocking on the ground, then the fight is usually called. Not saying that Brock did nothing, I am just speaking in generalities.



JustLo said:


> Quick! Quick! Stop the fight! Brock's forearms are getting really red and bruised! This is ******* serious he could get a concussion!
> 
> 
> Idiots.


We are not idiots by any stretch of the imagination for disagreeing with others on this board. I for one can see both sides of the argument, and have not downed anyone else for having a different opinion. I kind of resent the fact that you are referring to us as "idiots" just because you think that your OPINION is better than ours.

Honestly, I can completely understand why people think the fight was better off as it was, and while I disagree, I have never called out anyone for having a different opinion, and I do not like being referred to as an idiot, nor do I enjoy watching others here be referred to as idiots for having a different opinion. :thumbsdown:


----------



## Budhisten

I see the war is still raging in here :/

The facts are: Brock won, Carwin could just as easily have won but didn't... Calling people names because the disagree and try reason for their own cause is just straight up childish...

Come on people - MMA is after all just a sport, it's not life or death 

And BTW, I for one still believe Brock won that fight, fair and square


----------



## Can.Opener

Brock responded when Josh warned him to defend himself. Case closed.

A championship fight and Josh did a stellar job. Time to move on, Carwin lost.


----------



## UFC_OWNS

rockybalboa25 said:


> What do you mean still lost?


type-o, point is if it was a bad call lesnar would have lost


----------



## Majortom505

PheelGoodInc said:


> Pretty sure that was a reply to someone who was saying all Carwins punches were doing was hitting Brock's forearms.
> 
> I'm also pretty sure he never said anything about blood being a reason to end the fight.
> 
> I'm also pretty sure that Bonnar's fight has absolutely nothing to do with what anyone said.
> 
> As far as the punches not being enough to end the fight is a matter of opinion. Several ref's would have stopped that fight. Several others would not.


Sure Yeve Liveine os Steve (mustache Pete) Mazzagoti.


----------



## Danm2501

Enjoyed listening to Josh Rosental speak about this fight on MMA Live last night. He's a lot more eliquent than I ever thought he would be, and I completely agreed with his views on the stoppage. He made it clear that he was looking for certain signs that the fighter is giving up, and no longer wants to be in there. He said that he was close to ending the fight, and that's when he started talking to Brock, Brock responded, reacted and was intelligently defending himself. He also used a fantastic analogy where he described refereeing as him not wanting to be part of the action, and how the fighters have the 'ball'. Then if the fighter begins to look like he wants out of the fight, the 'ball' moves into his hands, and it's up to the fighter to re-take the ball from his hands, and as far as he was concerned, Brock did that. Rosenthal did a fantastic job I thought, and justified his call superbly.


----------



## Couchwarrior

No need for Josh to explain himself. The fact that Lesnar was able to come back and finish Carwin is proof enough that he made the right choice.


----------



## Thunder1

I think it could go either way on the stoppage. I don't agree with a ref coaching an opponent. Multiple "I'm gonna stop the fight if you don't do something" shouldn't happen. I can see the ref saying it maybe once as a warning. When the ref continues to tell the figher this all they need to do is react in some fashion. Exactly what Brock did. Look at some of the blind arm extensions tossed into the air. That's defending himself? No that's reacting to a ref to try and avoid a stoppage. I think the refs should keep there mouths shut in the heat of battle and let the fight go where it goes.


----------



## Thunder1

"No need for Josh to explain himself. The fact that Lesnar was able to come back and finish Carwin is proof enough that he made the right choice."

Brock should've been able to, he laid on his back for over three minutes covering his face expending no energy. I'm not a Brock hater, but that was one of the most lopsided UFC fights I've seen. Everyones busting Carwins balls about gassing. There isn't another 265+ pounder out there that could of dominated another 265 pounder in that fashion and not be gassed.


----------



## Ape City

PheelGoodInc said:


> Still shoulda been stopped. 99% of fights would have been. Lying in the fetal position with your hands over your face isn't defending yourself... which he did several times in the first round.


But you must agree that stopping it would have been wrong? Clearly Brock was in good shape to continue meaning that while the stoppage would have been justified it would have been a poor one.


----------



## Majortom505

Thunder1 said:


> "No need for Josh to explain himself. The fact that Lesnar was able to come back and finish Carwin is proof enough that he made the right choice."
> 
> Brock should've been able to, he laid on his back for over three minutes covering his face expending no energy. I'm not a Brock hater, but that was one of the most lopsided UFC fights I've seen. Everyones busting Carwins balls about gassing. There isn't another 265+ pounder out there that could of dominated another 265 pounder in that fashion and not be gassed.


Yeah... actually you do sound like a Brock hater. You wanted the fight stopped for inactivity? You wanted the ref to ignore his own pre-fight instructions?

Shouldn't a fighter have to be beaten to stop the fight? Didn't Brock do exactly what Josh told him to do to avoid a stoppage? After the three mins Brock stood right up. That's a stoppage in your mind?

I bet were it Carwin in Brocks place, you would cheer Rosenthal for his brilliant discretion.

Saying "I'm not a Brock hater" means nothing when the rest of the post is irrationally tainted by anti-Brock rhetoric?


----------



## Thunder1

"Didn't Brock do exactly what Josh told him to do to avoid a stoppage?"

Exactly! Since when is it the refs job to tell a fighter what to do to avoid a stoppage. Keep your mouth shut and call the fight. If you have to tell a fighter how to avoid a stoppage at that point and time they obviously can't do it themselves. That was my point in the first place. Actually I'd say the same either way Carwin or Lesner.


----------



## vilify

I'm a Brock hater and was hoping the fight would get stopped, but in reality it would have been a premature stoppage, especially judging by the eventual outcome of the fight.

so its time to move on........


----------



## Majortom505

Thunder1 said:


> "Didn't Brock do exactly what Josh told him to do to avoid a stoppage?"
> 
> Exactly! Since when is it the refs job to tell a fighter what to do to avoid a stoppage. Keep your mouth shut and call the fight. If you have to tell a fighter how to avoid a stoppage at that point and time they obviously can't do it themselves. That was my point in the first place. Actually I'd say the same either way Carwin or Lesner.


You don't understand... pre-fight Josh told BOTH fighters that as long as they were moving, defending themselves etc. he wouldn't stop the fight. Ref's ALWAYS talk to the fighters, warn they are getting close to stopping the fight, defend yourself and the like. ALWAYS.
Add that to the fact this was a Championship match. Look at any fight for the Championship, they don't stop the fight because one guy is doing better than the other guy. The fight must end when one fighter can not go on.
Everything was done perfectly, one of the best ref'ed fights I have seen. If I was Dana... I would have tried to get the ref suspended if he stopped that fight when you wanted it stopped.


----------



## dario03

Thunder1 said:


> "Didn't Brock do exactly what Josh told him to do to avoid a stoppage?"
> 
> Exactly! Since when is it the refs job to tell a fighter what to do to avoid a stoppage. Keep your mouth shut and call the fight. If you have to tell a fighter how to avoid a stoppage at that point and time they obviously can't do it themselves. That was my point in the first place. Actually I'd say the same either way Carwin or Lesner.


Refs do that a lot. Personally I don't see anything wrong with it, its basically a warning.


----------



## leifdawg

Just a s a clarification the rule is you must be intelligently defending. It is not intelligently improving your position. So laying in one place and blocking punches could definitely be construed as an intelligent defense at least for a brief amount of time. The only time I thought it might have been stopped was within the first 5-10 seconds of it hitting the ground. After that Brock was constantly working to gain wrist control or kick off with his legs.


----------



## SuperTed

Majortom505 said:


> You don't understand... pre-fight Josh told BOTH fighters that as long as they were moving, defending themselves etc. he wouldn't stop the fight. Ref's ALWAYS talk to the fighters, warn they are getting close to stopping the fight, defend yourself and the like. ALWAYS.
> Add that to the fact this was a Championship match. Look at any fight for the Championship, they don't stop the fight because one guy is doing better than the other guy. The fight must end when one fighter can not go on.
> Everything was done perfectly, one of the best ref'ed fights I have seen. If I was Dana... I would have tried to get the ref suspended if he stopped that fight when you wanted it stopped.



i agree


----------



## Machida Karate

People love to find reasons to why Brock won and ignore the fact that Brock is just the better athlete and did what ever he had to do to win that fight!

WOOT BROCK the #1 HW Champ of the world!


----------



## HexRei

Machida Karate said:


> People love to find reasons to why Brock won and ignore the fact that Brock is just the better athlete and did what ever he had to do to win that fight!


That's sort of a weird thing to say. Are you claiming that there is no way to analyze a fight even superficially, and that it's all ultimately some mystically unquantifiable intrinsic "athleticism" that decides each outcome so we shouldnt even bother to discuss what went on during the bout?


----------



## KittenStrangler

If the fight TRULY should have been stopped, Brock wouldn't have made it past the first round. Not only that but he wouldn't have won the match with ease in the second. You Brock haters wanna bitch about a fight needing to be stopped? Go watch Pete Sell vs Matt Brown and STFU. It's been a week, enough already. :sarcastic07:


----------



## EastonAssassin

i think it's pretty clear no matter how Brock wins there will be some who will find fault with it.


----------



## BD3

*Herb Dean Rates Referee Josh Rosenthal's Ufc 116 Lesnar Vs. Carwin Performance*

http://thegarv.com/HERB-DEAN-RATES-...-S-UFC-116-LESNAR-VS.-CARWIN-PERFORMANCE.html




> Kalin Johnston caught up with veteran MMA ref Herb Dean to get his thoughts on the way Josh Rosenthal handled UFC 116's main event. Shane Carwin pounced on returning champion Brock Lesnar in the opening stanza, unloading a volley of solid punches while Lesnar covered against the fence. Some felt Carwin was doing enough damage to warrant a referee intervention, but of course Brock bounced back in the second to secure a submission from the top.
> 
> Herb lends his opinion on Rosenthal's decision to let the fight continue, how he qualifies whether a fighter in that position is "intelligently defending", and his thoughts on the fight as a fan.
> 
> KALIN: Since the Brock Lesnar vs. Shane Carwin title fight a week ago there has been a lot of feedback about the first round of that fight and the reffing involved. A lot of people consider you to be the best ref in the game, so tell us, how was the reffing in that fight?
> 
> HERB: I think in the first round Shane definitely hit Brock with some good shots and was attacking him. For a second it seemed like Brock was in danger. The referee, Josh, did a really good job of keeping the fighter safe and not affecting the outcome of the fight.
> 
> KALIN: Do you feel the fight should have been stopped in the first round or do you agree with that decision?
> 
> HERB: I agree with what he did. I think he did a great job. I feel that it was the best decision to be made.
> 
> KALIN: I agree. It was almost as if Lesnar was doing the Rope-a-Dope on the ground.
> 
> HERB: That's what we tell the fighters in there, is that you can cover up, but you also need to do something to show that you are in the game still. I saw that Josh told him to defend himself and Brock Lesnar did do things. He moved around, he put his feet on the guys hips, and he did some things to work on the situation. Whatever it was he was doing, the ref saw that it was enough to let the fight continue which was obviously the right decision because Brock was not hurt. If the fight should have been stopped then Brock wouldn't of been able to weather the storm and actually come out and defeat Shane in the next round.
> 
> KALIN: How much of this backlash against Brock is because of him as a person and because of his pro wrestling background?
> 
> HERB: I don't know. That's not my type of style to worry about who's popular and who is not popular. For me, I respect anybody who gets in there and fights. Maybe they might have an attitude which is different than mine, but it takes all types. Fortunately for me I don't have to be that guy.
> 
> KALIN: Looking at that fight as a fan were you impressed by Brock's performance?
> 
> HERB: I definitely was. I think that he showed a lot of heart and showed a lot of fighting spirit to not only be able to weather that storm like that, but to also always still be thinking about how to win. I think it was very impressive. That's what you see in this sport. That's the type of athletes that we have here.
> 
> KALIN: When you're in the octagon as the ref and a fighter is on the ground taking shots, what specific things are you looking for?
> 
> HERB: The main thing I look for is basically intelligent defense which is basically them actively trying to solve the situation that they are in. If they're just laying there with their arms up taking shots and not doing any movement I can't allow that to continue. If they're just taking the shots and allowing it to happen I can't have that. All it takes is a little bit of movement so that they are not getting hit as much. They need to be moving and bucking their hips to throw the other guy off balance so that he can't hit him as hard. Really just anything to help the situation and help him weather the storm.
> 
> KALIN: How do you help the second generation of MMA refs coming up right now? Do you hold any seminars?
> 
> HERB: I do. I do some teaching. I think that in the future of the sport all of the referees will be attending seminars. We're going to focus on what is going on with officials. The athletic commissions now are making sure that officials go through certain certifications. I have a course that I'm running my curriculum through with the group of athletic commissions that meet and decide if it's one that they require the officials to go through. You can go to HerbDean.com and look at Herb Dean referee school and put your information up there and we will keep you updated on when we are going to be doing our next seminar.
> 
> KALIN: It has to feel great to be at a place in life where you can use your name and your skills to help other people.
> 
> HERB: Definitely. It is a blessing to be able to be a part of this great sport. I love it. I'm passionate about refereeing. I take it very seriously. It's a sacred trust because peoples careers and safety are in your hands. I'm happy that people trust me to do it.


Good stuff. Herb is the best :thumbsup:


----------



## michelangelo

Nice find--if you read between the lines Herb Dean is saying that yeah, he thinks Brock is a douche or perhaps just acts like one, but that nonetheless would not affect how he evaluated the fight: namely, that Brock was defending himself intelligently and therefore did not see cause to stop the fight.


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5

Herb Dean is the man, I agree with the decision and I don't see how anybody could possibly argue that the fight should have been stopped.


----------



## The Horticulturist

Andddd there we have it!

thanks for the article! good read.


----------



## Diokhan

And Herb shuts the Brock haters down nicely by backing up the way the fight was ref'ed. If Herb agrees that it was great ref'ing there really isn't much left to say.


----------



## BobbyD

Even if Herb disagreed with Rosenthal's reffing, he wouldn't say anything negative. Herb's to classy for that. But I think what he said was genuine. Gotta love Herbie.:thumb02:


----------



## kay_o_ken

Diokhan said:


> And Herb shuts the Brock haters down nicely by backing up the way the fight was ref'ed. *If Herb agrees that it was great ref'ing there really isn't much left to say*.


exaclty


----------



## capsal

Ofcourse he is not going to argue with a fellow ref. decision, why would he put himself in such a position?? according to him covering your face with your arms is not enough to be considered as defending yourself intelligently so Brock had to do other things like push Carwin with his legs. This happened 10 seconds after being hammered in the head unabated which looking at past stoppages is more than enough time to stop the fight.


----------



## Leben-izer

capsal said:


> Ofcourse he is not going to argue with a fellow ref. decision, why would he put himself in such a position?? according to him covering your face with your arms is not enough to be considered as defending yourself intelligently so Brock had to do other things like push Carwin with his legs. This happened 10 seconds after being hammered in the head unabated which looking at past stoppages is more than enough time to stop the fight.



Either way Brock won. There really is not much to say anymore. Brock could beat 10 more guys straight and he still wont get the respect hes deserves from the Brock haters (who mostly seem to be big time fedor fans). However, Fedor could lose 10 more fights in a row and he would still be the best according to those fans. Some things never change, oh well


----------



## No_Mercy

Certainly the next best to Big John Mcarthy. I don't know why they still have Mazzagati. How many times is a ref allowed to make mistakes before they get suspended and ultimately fired.


----------



## MikeHawk

Herb Dean may have stopped the fight. But, he recognizes that Josh did the right thing since Brock came back and won it.

It doesn't matter if 100 other fights have been stopped in this situation. It was the right decision since Brock was still able to fight.


----------



## swpthleg

Herb Dean is the man, but I've liked Josh Rosenthal and thought he was a solid ref, since he came into public view.

I wanna go to Herb Dean ref school now!

Great article, and the "unsung soldier" pic is full of win.


----------



## Life B Ez

The Herb has spoken, no more saying the fight should have been stopped :thumb02:


----------



## LiteGladiator

If Herb Dean agrees on a reffing call, then I do too. I never though it would have been a justifiable stoppage in the first place anyways.


----------



## JonCR96Z

PheelGoodInc is not gonna like this.


----------



## Sousa

capsal said:


> Ofcourse he is not going to argue with a fellow ref. decision, why would he put himself in such a position?? according to him covering your face with your arms is not enough to be considered as defending yourself intelligently so Brock had to do other things like push Carwin with his legs. This happened 10 seconds after being hammered in the head unabated which looking at past stoppages is more than enough time to stop the fight.


He's disagreed with ref decisions before though. Also who cares if he talks badly about a fight , its not Dana's call as to who the refs are

Anyways its kinda funny that the Brock haters are not in this thread talking about a ref(their favorite) what he had to say about that fight...I wonder why


----------



## js9234

Where do you get this from? 


MikeHawk said:


> *Herb Dean may have stopped the fight.* But, he recognizes that Josh did the right thing since Brock came back and won it.
> 
> It doesn't matter if 100 other fights have been stopped in this situation. It was the right decision since Brock was still able to fight.


----------



## MikeHawk

js9234 said:


> Where do you get this from?


The fact that he said covering up with your arms is not enough to keep a fight going. It's not too hard to read between the lines.


----------



## JonCR96Z

MikeHawk said:


> The fact that he said covering up with your arms is not enough to keep a fight going. It's not too hard to read between the lines.


He just stopped moving and completely covered up for maybe 5 seconds. Even fights that are stopped by that usually go on longer covering up than Brock did. And given the fact that it was the biggest championship fight of all times there's probably a lot of pressure on the Ref to keep it going until you really have to stop it. 

Look at Mir/Carwin. Mir was layed out on his face and Carwin still landed numerous shots before it was stopped. True, some get stopped earlier but they are almost always controversial.


----------



## mastodon2222

more than just gassed...too much adrenaline = premature gas out.


----------



## js9234

I think maybe you're reading what you want or reading too far into it. What I got from reading it was he 100% agreed with Rosenthal and he wouldn't have stopped it either. 


MikeHawk said:


> The fact that he said covering up with your arms is not enough to keep a fight going. It's not too hard to read between the lines.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Definitely seemed like a major adrenaline dump. Usually most gassed fighters are struggling to breathe, instead his body just seemed dead. 

Either way Carwin walked away from this fight knowing that Brock didn't beat him, Brock survived him. Carwin can and will be the bane of Brock Lesnar. Some people are very foolish in thinking that Brock is the better fighter. Better fighters aren't dominated for an entire 10 - 8 round getting beaten on like a bitch. It is a scary idea to see someone be able to dominate like that. Next time Carwin will be smarter and more in tune with his body. Lesnar will not escape again.


----------



## ACTAFOOL

herb is the man! great ref, really nice to see his opinion on all of this, i gotta agree, i dont see why ppl are saying it should have been stopped

I see it like this, are fights usually stopped in similar fights? yes...ok i agree with that, but still, this is always something that bugged me in the UFC lately, they stop way too many fights early! there have been so many fights that really didnt need to be stopped but the ref stops it anyway just because the guy wasnt moving

i dont agree with this, in many cases the person actually hitting him wasnt really hitting him anywhere, they are usually covered up and are taking almost no damage, why stop the fight? he shouldnt have to move as long as hes defending himself well

if anything the guy hitting him should stop being stupid and see that hes not hurting him, go for a f*cking sub, or do some body shots, damn its not that hard

these early stoppages encourage guys to just keep firing when they arent really doing any damage, and i hate seeing fights end when the guy wasnt even dizzy getting up

sometimes its the right call, but sometimes its just BS to stop it....

brock was hurt later, with the elbow shots, but at that point he started moving, and pushed him off, and later in the same round still got up and controlled the last minute...how can ppl say it should have been stopped??


----------



## rickrolled

Leben-izer said:


> Either way Brock won. There really is not much to say anymore. Brock could beat 10 more guys straight and he still wont get the respect hes deserves from the Brock haters (who mostly seem to be big time fedor fans). However, Fedor could lose 10 more fights in a row and he would still be the best according to those fans. Some things never change, oh well



Not necessarily. I absolutely adore fedor. and am a proud nuthugger.. and what he has done for the sport. But i dont necessarily hate brock. He presents a different side to the story. Brock is just a freak athlete and its hard not to be impressed by him. Fedor is one of those guys that walk past u on the street and u think u can talk him on, then he simultaneously breaks ur arm, while choking u out.. 

I love the evolution of mma, and brock leading the new generation of heavyweights certainly provides much intrigue..

So after that rant.. to sum it up.. i love fedor and always will.. but i have growing admiration for brock and what he has been able to do in such a short time..


----------



## Gopherchucks

VolcomX311 said:


> I'm not trying to bash Carwin, but c'mon. He over-expended himself in the first round. There's no need for looking to blame his endocrine system or some technical part of his energy system to justify that he made an error in over-expending himself. I think he was right to do so. He had Brock rocked, on his back and trying to survive. Who doesn't try to end a fight at that point, but to his misfortune, Brock survived. It's about as non-technical of an explanation as that. Carwin has never had anyone survive multiple blows from him, so he couldn't have estimated that Brock was going to and based on his own experience and record, you can reasonably see why he would figure if he kept throwing, this Brock will KO soon. You can even argue it was more of a learning experience, as oppose to calling it a horrible error.


I thought this assessment was spot on. Sure, we can look for scientific explanations of what happened physiologically and perhaps psychologically to Carwin in the 2nd round, but in reality we all saw what happened and the result of it. Either way you put it, he punched himself out in the 1st. And I agree that it wasn't such a huge error on Shane's part. Ofcourse, in hindsight he made a mistake, but if he had put Brock away in the 1st none of this would have been an issue. He saw a possibility of stopping the fight early and he took it, but unfortunately for him he was unsuccessfull. It was more of a gamble than a horrible mistake. And I agree that its a learning experience for Carwin, he'd never been out of the 1st round in 12 fights and he did all he could to finish Brock the same way he'd done with all those 12 before him. Next time he'll learn when to go for the kill and when to pace himself.


----------



## js9234

Carwin tapped to Brock therefor Brock beat Carwin...


Terror Kovenant said:


> Definitely seemed like a major adrenaline dump. Usually most gassed fighters are struggling to breathe, instead his body just seemed dead.
> 
> *Either way Carwin walked away from this fight knowing that Brock didn't beat him,* Brock survived him. Carwin can and will be the bane of Brock Lesnar. Some people are very foolish in thinking that Brock is the better fighter. Better fighters aren't dominated for an entire 10 - 8 round getting beaten on like a bitch. It is a scary idea to see someone be able to dominate like that. Next time Carwin will be smarter and more in tune with his body. Lesnar will not escape again.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

Diokhan said:


> you two = win
> 
> Nice to see it in details like that, but seriously all this useage of fancy words specially by Carwin's camp in order to defend his lousy cardio/game plan looks just silly. I don't really care what its called, but if a fighter overuses his resources in round 1 and can't keep up anymore in round 2 I label it "gassing out".
> Where were you guys when Lutter gassed out against Silva and Franklin? I didn't see this many people patting his back and coloring his failure into something else.


A couple of things:

1. You missed the point of the article. Carwin says his cardio wasn't compromised, his body was not responding the way he wanted. When has Carwin been a hype man or excuse maker? I would tend to believe him. 

2. This acticle explains what could have caused his poor 2nd round performance based on the theory it wasn't oxygen deprivation. Calling what happened "gassing" is a totally uneducated assessment.

Is it possible his cardio was compromised? Yes. But he says it wasn't. And nothing about Carwin seems like an excuse maker. What is being described in the article makes just as much sense as a possibilty as "gassing" does. And to completely ignore that data and languish pithy comments regarding the use of "fancy word" shows your lack of knowledge on the subject.


----------



## BD3

*SHANE CARWIN's defeat to LESNAR "has added fuel to the fire"*

"My goal is to face Brock again as soon as possible. I would like another chance and I am willing to work my butt off to get one."

Good read check it outtt:

http://www.mmaresolutions.com/shane-carwins-defeat-to-brock-lesnar-has-added-fuel-to-the-fire


----------



## Adam365

Can you post the article my work won't let me go to that site. TIA


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Carwin's next opponent is going to get run over and smashed into the ground. Shane's a beast.


----------



## boney

*Who Wants A Rematch???*

AFTER THE BROCK/CARWIN FIGHT. i think shane wants a reamatch. while controversial { spell chk} lol.i would like to see this happen. i really beleive that carwin can end him. and i am not pissed at the ending. i just thought the lesner running away was great.....:sarcastic12:


----------



## leifdawg

> Shane Carwin
> 
> Former *UFC *interim heavyweight champion, *Shane Carwin* has today issued a statement following his loss just over a week ago to *Brock Lesnar* at *UFC 116*, saying the defeat has added fuel to his competitive fire.
> _“Well it is one week later and I can’t wait to get back in the gym. I have a camping trip I am taking but after that I will be back in the gym helping the guys with upcoming fights get ready. I was actually going to go in Monday but I was diagnosed with bronchitis and did not feel well enough to do much of anything.”_
> _“I went back to work on Thursday and tried to settle back in. It had been awhile. Between all of the cancellations I had been in camp for over a year so I was no longer ahead of the curve on what needed to get done. I am really lucky my boss allows me to work at my own pace but that pace has been lagging lately. I am the designer of the system we use and pretty critical to making sure it work right. I really do love what I do and I am lucky they afford me the time to chase my dreams.”_
> _“At 35 who knows how much longer my body will allow me to compete at the highest level. I love to compete and I want to be the best at what I do. We have a lot to work on but standing at the base of the mountain you already climbed is a lot less daunting then climbing it for the first time.”_
> Carwin and Lesnar
> 
> _“I have no idea what the UFC has planned for me yet. I am going to get back to work and try to solve some of my shortcomings, My goal is to face Brock again as soon as possible. I would like another chance and I am willing to work my butt off to get one. Part of the quest will be to win the UFC belt from whoever has it. I want to face the best fighter in MMA and make sure I leave a legacy behind.”
> _
> _“I love the sport of MMA, losing has added fuel to the fire. I want to be known for being a complete fighter. I look forward to what ever this sport has in store for me and I am thankful to my Coaches, Training Partners and Sponsors who make this dream of mine possible. Without you I would be at home telling my son and his friends about my glory days as he tries to use my head gear as antennas for TV.”_
> _“I will be on the road a lot starting August 7th in Bakersfield. While I am out in Bakersfield I am going to try help bring some awareness to the Cal State Bakersfield Wrestling program that is slated to be cut. The sport of wrestling, which is one of the foundations of MMA is under attack and at risk of disappearing because of Title 9. This is all happening as the sport is beginning to have its own version of the NFL with MMA. Imagine the Olympics featuring MMA fighter Ben Askren. We need to do what we can to support our local Wresters and I am doing what I can to help Wrestling as a whole.– Carwin”_


In the future post the article not just the link BD3.


----------



## BD3

Yea, I'd like to see it. But he was to work his way back up and earn one. :thumbsup:


----------



## Leed

This is like the 4th+ topic about Lesnar/Carwin from you.. you just can't let it go, can you?


----------



## BobbyCooper

First of all he should work on his Cardio and drop some of that weight. 

Run some hills up and down.. but do something!


----------



## BobbyCooper

I would be pissed if I were Dana. I don't even think he deserves to fight in the UFC after that performance..

I lost a lot of credit for this Jackson crew!


----------



## boney

Leed said:


> This is like the 4th+ topic about Lesnar/Carwin from you.. you just can't let it go, can you?


dude stfu and sit back and don't post .think you can manage that gumby?



BD3 said:


> Yea, I'd like to see it. But he was to work his way back up and earn one. :thumbsup:


i agree.. but i would still like to see it. i respect carwin for what he did. he backed brock right down.


----------



## UFC on VHS

He needs to take out the loser of JDS/Nelson and then take out some guys like Kongo or Stephen Struve or something.

Basicly he needs 1 solid win and 1 or 2 easier fights just to show something. Im willing to bet a win over Struve and a win over Nelson/JDS would get him his shot. Even a win over Cro Cop would do it (I don't wanna see that fight though)

He could also take the fast track and beat someone like Pat Barry then go straight to the loser of Lesnar/Cain.


----------



## Leed

boney said:


> dude stfu and sit back and don't post .think you can manage that gumby?



Stop it, you're hurting my feelings...


----------



## AmdM

Leed said:


> This is like the 4th+ topic about Lesnar/Carwin from you.. you just can't let it go, can you?


X2

At least bump one of the other topics, as the talk is the same anyway...


----------



## cdtcpl

No point. If he can't finish Lesnar off with 4 minutes of bombs then it isn't happening. Carwin needs some serious time to change up his training and find a way to make it more like actual fights. Then he needs a couple guys to test it on to make sure he is ready. I think in 2-3 fights he is ready to fight Lesnar again and would stand a much better chance than an immediate rematch. I think Carwin could beat him, but not yet, he needs a little bit of time.


----------



## Soojooko

cdtcpl said:


> No point. If he can't finish Lesnar off with 4 minutes of bombs then it isn't happening. Carwin needs some serious time to change up his training and find a way to make it more like actual fights. Then he needs a couple guys to test it on to make sure he is ready. I think in 2-3 fights he is ready to fight Lesnar again and would stand a much better chance than an immediate rematch. I think Carwin could beat him, but not yet, he needs a little bit of time.


Carwin doesn't have time. Hes the oldest out of the big HW's in the UFC. The others will only get better whereas Carwins improvements will become less and less. Besides he has the tools already. He needs to work on psychology and mental preparation.


----------



## vilify

Yea sure.


----------



## Kado

I want one, but not for atleast a couple more fights. I want Carwin to earn his way back up.


----------



## Calibretto9

Same as everyone else has said: I'd like to see it, I still think Carwin can beat him, and Carwin needs to work his way back up the ladder.


----------



## amoosenamedhank

I'd really like to see Carwin vs JDS.... I would really love to see the two off them meet in the center of the ring and just swing.


----------



## The505Butcher

BobbyCooper said:


> I would be pissed if I were Dana. I don't even think he deserves to fight in the UFC after that performance..
> 
> I lost a lot of credit for this Jackson crew!


Really Bobby...:confused02:

You lose respect because Carwin destroyed one of the best HWs the UFC has ever seen and has never known what it is like to be out of the first round and made a mistake? He will be back with less cumbersome muscle and more skill and a better gas tank. Granted I do not think he will ever be a fighter that will fight a 5 round war but I think the first 2 and a half rounds will be one of epic proportions.

And you don't think he should fight in the UFC anymore? That is like me saying Lyoto should not fight in the UFC anymore because Everyone thinks he lost the first fight and he got murdered in the second fight. Lyoto will be back with a better gameplan and more experience.

And Boney please stop making so many threads about this. two is enough. You have made like 7. Post in one of the other ten Threads.


----------



## Thunder1

He worked his way up. He especially doesn't two or three more fights. To possible match him up with Nelson a guy who just came off TUF, is an insult. One fight then a rematch. He compeletly kicked the shit out of the worlds best. Next time pace yourself. As soon as he knocked Lesner on his ass he should've stood him right back up and turned his head into a bobble doll. Fight smarter next time.


----------



## FrodoFraggins

Carwin needs to let Cain and JDS get their shots at the belt first. I'll definitely be psyched for Carwin's next title shot though.


----------



## BobbyCooper

The505Butcher said:


> Really Bobby...:confused02:
> 
> You lose respect because Carwin destroyed one of the best HWs the UFC has ever seen and has never known what it is like to be out of the first round and made a mistake? He will be back with less cumbersome muscle and more skill and a better gas tank. Granted I do not think he will ever be a fighter that will fight a 5 round war but I think the first 2 and a half rounds will be one of epic proportions.
> 
> And you don't think he should fight in the UFC anymore? That is like me saying Lyoto should not fight in the UFC anymore because Everyone thinks he lost the first fight and he got murdered in the second fight. Lyoto will be back with a better gameplan and more experience.
> 
> And Boney please stop making so many threads about this. two is enough. You have made like 7. Post in one of the other ten Threads.


I just think others deserve his spot more.. like Overeem for example. I don't think you should be allowed to compete in the UFC, if you can not go more then 5 minutes in a fight. Thats a lack of training, preperation and Respect!


----------



## Calroid

The rematch will happen. It's too big not to.


----------



## The505Butcher

BobbyCooper said:


> I just think others deserve his spot more.. like Overeem for example. I don't think you should be allowed to compete in the UFC, if you can not go more then 5 minutes in a fight. Thats a lack of training, preperation and Respect!


Yeah but you can cut Carwin a break man. It is not like he is the first person to gas in a fight. If he continues to be only a one round fighter I will agree with you but right now it is just a mistake that he has time to correct. Like I said this is the first time he has made a mistake and he can learn from it. 

Shogun gassed in his first fight in the UFC. Many fighters gas and they come back stronger later. I think he will realize his flaw and not try to match Lesnar for size like he did in the last fight. 

We will see.


----------



## americanfighter

I would love to see it. Carwin may be the best in the world. He just got careless and punched himself out and that won't happen again. I think that any HW that threw as many punches as he did in that short of time they would have gassed too. 

I believed Brock and carwin are the best in the ufc with Cain and jds not far behind. Shane hits hard and obviously Brock has a hell of a chin a rematch would be extremely exciting and I would buy the ppv in a heartbeat. 

That being said there are other top guys that deserve a shot so we will have to wait till after his fight with Cain and jds or big country.


----------



## BobbyCooper

The505Butcher said:


> Yeah but you can cut Carwin a break man. It is not like he is the first person to gas in a fight. If he continues to be only a one round fighter I will agree with you but right now it is just a mistake that he has time to correct. Like I said this is the first time he has made a mistake and he can learn from it.
> 
> Shogun gassed in his first fight in the UFC. Many fighters gas and they come back stronger later. I think he will realize his flaw and not try to match Lesnar for size like he did in the last fight.
> 
> We will see.


Yea Right, I think I am too hard on him. Let's wait and see!


----------



## Thermopyle

I kind of equate Carwin vs. Lesnar fight to the first GSP vs. Hughes fight. Different reasons, but the emotions got the better of both fighters in those fights.

GSP couldn't even look Matt in the eye during the stare down. He lost badly. Second fight he was over that emotion and summarily beat Hughes.

I think in a second fight against Lesnar, the emotion of winning a belt might not derail Carwin as much, he'll be able to pick his punches better, and manage his cardio better.

A lot of this, "Carwin needs to do this in the gym, and that in the gym, and this..." is all a little silly. All Shane Carwin needs to do is what he did in the first round at UFC 116. He just needs to do it better.


----------



## Mx2

Thermopyle said:


> A lot of this, "Carwin needs to do this in the gym, and that in the gym, and this..." is all a little silly. All Shane Carwin needs to do is what he did in the first round at UFC 116. He just needs to do it better.


Very well said, +rep


----------



## The505Butcher

BobbyCooper said:


> Yea Right, I think I am too hard on him. Let's wait and see!


Yes I changed your opinion! Ten points!:thumb02:

Though you have all the right to get pissed at me if he gasses in his next fight too. I will appologize.


----------



## BobbyCooper

The505Butcher said:


> Yes I changed your opinion! Ten points!:thumb02:
> 
> Though you have all the right to get pissed at me if he gasses in his next fight too. I will appologize.


Ok kid from now I will look up every post you make and try to find something wrong, so that I can call you out on it in front of everybody. I know it's tough, but you leave me no choice.. 

it will be hard to find something through.. damit :angry06:

PS: just trying to be funny^^ hope it works


----------



## The505Butcher

BobbyCooper said:


> Ok kid from now I will look up every post you make and try to find something wrong, so that I can call you out on it in front of everybody. I know it's tough, but you leave me no choice..
> 
> it will be hard to find something through.. damit :angry06:
> 
> PS: just trying to be funny^^ hope it works


I smiled. I am going to have to step my game up now. I am worried. :eek02:Just do not go back to my post on may 5 and 12:35pm That does not count.

(seriously do not go back to that date. Its random in case it was not clear.):thumb02:


----------



## Adam365

Thermopyle said:


> I kind of equate Carwin vs. Lesnar fight to the first GSP vs. Hughes fight. Different reasons, but the emotions got the better of both fighters in those fights.
> 
> GSP couldn't even look Matt in the eye during the stare down. He lost badly. Second fight he was over that emotion and summarily beat Hughes.


GSP lost badly in the first fight???, you better go watch that fight again.


----------



## somethingclever

Cardio refers to the body's ability to maintain blood oxygenation during strenuous exercise, and that doesn't appear to be where Shane's body failed. He ran out of one of the other kinds of gas...

Maybe glucose, the fastest way for the body to produce ATP (energy). If an adrenaline surge induced a dump of all the available glucose into his blood, and he used it up. Then his body switches to slower processes (fat metabolism) to replenish ATP levels. During this transition his energy level could have gotten very low (called "hitting the wall" in endurance sports).

Maybe electrolytes, the facilitators of intra-cellular communication. Low sodium, potassium, calcium, etc levels from an overzealous weight cut could cut off signaling of muscles, or even the muscles ability to contract/relax properly.

Best I can come up with after a few courses in physiology.


----------



## Uchaaa

What can you do against it? I think I have it too.


----------



## VolcomX311

somethingclever said:


> Cardio refers to the body's ability to maintain blood oxygenation during strenuous exercise, and that doesn't appear to be where Shane's body failed. He ran out of one of the other kinds of gas...
> 
> Maybe glucose, the fastest way for the body to produce ATP (energy). If an adrenaline surge induced a dump of all the available glucose into his blood, and he used it up. Then his body switches to slower processes (fat metabolism) to replenish ATP levels. During this transition his energy level could have gotten very low (called "hitting the wall" in endurance sports).
> 
> Maybe electrolytes, the facilitators of intra-cellular communication. Low sodium, potassium, calcium, etc levels from an overzealous weight cut could cut off signaling of muscles, or even the muscles ability to contract/relax properly.
> 
> Best I can come up with after a few courses in physiology.


That's a well thought out take on the situation and I see the thought process behind it. However, the gaping whole in this argument is that Carwin didn't really do anything so extraordinary and so unprecedented in an MMA fight to have caused such a severe and insurmountable crash. 

Theoretically, if this phenomenon occurred to Carwin and to this extent, as a result of his top side GnP performance, then we would see it happen ALL THE TIME, to all sorts of fighters, throughout the history of MMA. Again, this whole adrenaline dump issue, the release of epinephdrine is an autonomic process. It's an inherent, endocrinological process that occurs independent of conscious will. Therefore, being that its autonomic and all things being true about all these adrenaline theories related to Carwin, then Brock should have adrenaline-dumped as well and to an even greater extent, because he was certainly in the more dire situation that would cause panic and therefore, eliciting the body to release epinephrine. 

Furthermore, again, granted all things are true in regards to this Carwin-Adrenaline dump theory, we would see it ALL THE TIME. We would almost never see a come back knock out, because the guy getting beat down round after round, would theoretically be too adrenaline dumped, or "De-Carwinated," to not only not posses enough glucose to be able to neurologically acknowledge an opening (brain runs on sugar), not posses enough glucose to be able to physically counter-react (requires ATP) to an opening, or be able to generate the appropriate force (requires ATP) to knock the opponent out. 

Even if we go with the theory that Carwin exclusively released epinephrine and Brock's autonomic system for some reason did not. The endocrine system's negative loop feedback would have regulated the epinephdrine spike with norepinephrine, which does slow the heart, slows respiration, slows circulation, and relaxes the muscles, but it would have done it to a manageable, homeostatic extent, not causing Carwin to freeze up. Short of Carwin having some sort of horrendous issue with his endocrine system, all this mumbo jumbo makes for great diversionary speculation, but unlikely as the primary culprit based on everything that's been laid out. We would have seen plenty of other fighters get DeCarwinated and freeze up or whatever. Considering all the MMA organizations out there, I find it odd he's the first to experience such a detrimental adrenaline dump.

Adrenaline dumps do occur (but are much more subtle, short of some hormonal issues) and maybe it was part of the equation at some level, but they aren't so radical in effect, otherwise, again, we'd have seen it many times before in other fighters throughout MMA history where someone "freezes up."

He over expended himself. It happens and we've seen that phenomenon happen plenty of times without trying to delve into a small course on Kinesiology. Refs make subjective calls regardless of precedence and fighters make miscalculated decisions. It's about as simple as that.


----------



## somethingclever

VolcomX311 said:


> That's a well thought out take on the situation and I see the thought process behind it. However, the gaping whole in this argument is that Carwin didn't really do anything so extraordinary and so unprecedented in an MMA fight to have caused such a severe and insurmountable crash.
> 
> Theoretically, if this phenomenon occurred to Carwin and to this extent, as a result of his top side GnP performance, then we would see it happen ALL THE TIME, to all sorts of fighters, throughout the history of MMA. Again, this whole adrenaline dump issue, the release of epinephdrine is an autonomic process. It's an inherent, endocrinological process that occurs independent of conscious will. Therefore, being that its autonomic and all things being true about all these adrenaline theories related to Carwin, then Brock should have adrenaline-dumped as well and to an even greater extent, because he was certainly in the more dire situation that would cause panic and therefore, eliciting the body to release epinephrine.
> 
> Furthermore, again, granted all things are true in regards to this Carwin-Adrenaline dump theory, we would see it ALL THE TIME. We would almost never see a come back knock out, because the guy getting beat down round after round, would theoretically be too adrenaline dumped, or "De-Carwinated," to not only not posses enough glucose to be able to neurologically acknowledge an opening (brain runs on sugar), not posses enough glucose to be able to physically counter-react (requires ATP) to an opening, or be able to generate the appropriate force (requires ATP) to knock the opponent out.
> 
> Even if we go with the theory that Carwin exclusively released epinephrine and Brock's autonomic system for some reason did not. The endocrine system's negative loop feedback would have regulated the epinephdrine spike with norepinephrine, which does slow the heart, slows respiration, slows circulation, and relaxes the muscles, but it would have done it to a manageable, homeostatic extent, not causing Carwin to freeze up. Short of Carwin having some sort of horrendous issue with his endocrine system, all this mumbo jumbo makes for great diversionary speculation, but unlikely as the primary culprit based on everything that's been laid out. We would have seen plenty of other fighters get DeCarwinated and freeze up or whatever. Considering all the MMA organizations out there, I find it odd he's the first to experience such a detrimental adrenaline dump.
> 
> Adrenaline dumps do occur (but are much more subtle, short of some hormonal issues) and maybe it was part of the equation at some level, but they aren't so radical in effect, otherwise, again, we'd have seen it many times before in other fighters throughout MMA history where someone "freezes up."
> 
> He over expended himself. It happens and we've seen that phenomenon happen plenty of times without trying to delve into a small course on Kinesiology. Refs make subjective calls regardless of precedence and fighters make miscalculated decisions. It's about as simple as that.


I think we very much agree on the simple fact that he overexerted himself in the first round, and Lesnar capitalized while he was weak. I think the main point of my argument was to answer the underlying questions:

Why did he "gas" so fast, considering he his cardio is strong? Well, I argue this resulted from the adrenaline surge freeing his glucose stores and burning through them trying to finish the fight.

Why couldn't he recover by the 2nd round? Because he burned through so much energy, that other metabolic processes had not had sufficient time to stabilize his energy level.

Why was it a surprise to him? Because he had never been a fight that lasted long enough for that adrenaline surge energy to run out.


----------



## The Lone Wolf

VolcomX311 said:


> That's a well thought out take on the situation and I see the thought process behind it. However, the gaping whole in this argument is that Carwin didn't really do anything so extraordinary and so unprecedented in an MMA fight to have caused such a severe and insurmountable crash.


There is also a psychological factor in all of this. He hurt the champ and rushed in for the kill. When the fight didnt get stopped, theres a huge psychological barrier to overcome; "I just threw all i had at this guy and hes still there". Thats when your arms and legs start to feel like lead. Carwin wasnt mentally prepared for what happened.


----------



## VolcomX311

nevermind. Good luck to Carwin next time.


----------



## VolcomX311

double post, sorry.


----------



## coldcall420

Adam365 said:


> http://mmajunkie.com/news/19851/ask...shane-carwins-body-to-seize-up-at-ufc-116.mma
> 
> 
> 
> I thought this was interesting.


 
Very good read thank you for posting.....:thumbsup:


----------



## Hammerlock2.0

What happened here? Why was my post in this thread deleted?


----------



## MrObjective

somethingclever said:


> I think we very much agree on the simple fact that he overexerted himself in the first round, and Lesnar capitalized while he was weak. I think the main point of my argument was to answer the underlying questions:
> 
> Why did he "gas" so fast, considering he his cardio is strong? Well, I argue this resulted from the adrenaline surge freeing his glucose stores and burning through them trying to finish the fight.
> 
> Why couldn't he recover by the 2nd round? Because he burned through so much energy, that other metabolic processes had not had sufficient time to stabilize his energy level.
> 
> Why was it a surprise to him? Because he had never been a fight that lasted long enough for that adrenaline surge energy to run out.


His kidneys and lungs didn't compensate. One of his buffering mechanisms had an acute failure, his plasma pH dipped and his body went out of homeostasis. I have a feeling there's going to be a round 2. Carwin the fighter when he's healthy is still the best, if he gets two good fights, he's get a title shot against Brock, Cain or JDS time I think he'll be better prepared for to go the distance - I think all 4 will meet each other in the octagon over the next 2 years.


----------



## Life B Ez

vilify said:


> he gassed..duh!


Wow.....so how can you post on a forum if you can't read?

Good read btw, breaking down "adrenaline dumping" well written too.


----------



## Black_S15

*Carwin Blames no one but himself..*

http://www.5thround.com/44113/shane-carwin-knows-who-to-blame-for-brock-lesnar-loss/


----------



## FrodoFraggins

*quoted*

I'm not sure why you didn't just quote it here.



> While it’s difficult for most competitors to accept defeat, it’s nearly impossible for them to blame themselves for such an atrocity. In steps former UFC interim heavyweight champ Shane Carwin, who took a hard look in the mirror after his loss to Brock Lesnar and instantly realized he was staring directly at the man to blame.
> 
> “I’m not making any excuses for that fight. Brock won that fight. He came out of a 1stRound that I don’t think many people could, and if I want to blame anybody on that fight it’s me,” Carwin told MMAWeekly.com.
> 
> Although Carwin was handed his first professional blemish at UFC 116, he nearly ended the scrap in the opening stanza with a vicious barrage of bombs that had some inside the MGM Grand Garden Arena screaming for a stoppage.
> 
> “Josh is a great ref. I don’t have any ill will towards any ref. They have the hardest job in there when you sit back and you try to think about putting yourself in their shoes and try to determine if a fighter can’t carry on, or is intelligently defending himself,” said Carwin. “Everyone is different in how they defend in those positions. It’s a very tough job, and I have a lot of respect for all the refs that are out there.”
> 
> Some MMA purists questioned Rosenthal’s credentials when he was awarded the blockbuster match-up, especially with Herb Dean – who has been dubbed by UFC president Dana White as “The best referee in the business” – sitting inches away. Carwin, on the other hand, has taken the high road by professing the third person inside the Octagon shouldn’t have even mattered.
> 
> “One sure fire way to finish a fight is to knock him out and Rosenthal wouldn’t have to make a decision,” Carwin matter-of-factly stated.
> 
> Shane owns the biggest mitts in the UFC and every finger attached to them are pointing directly at his own massive 265-pound frame. Did we really expect anything less from the classy Carwin?


----------



## The505Butcher

At least this stops everyone saying he is blaming the ref. He is owning up to not having the cardio to fight the way he did.

Hope he comes back stronger than ever.


----------



## limba

Carwin is smart and he knows the mistakes he made in the first fight.
I am convinced he is gonna have that fixed until his next fight.


----------



## marcthegame

I think the UFC needs to skip all this bullshit and give Carwin Brock again. Brock did not beat carwin, carwin lost that fight himself. If there is any man than can beat brock it is carwin. But if this fool does not improve his cardio i would cut his ass from the ufc. Carwin with imrpove cardio could be the best fighter in the world.


----------



## Rauno

marcthegame said:


> I think the UFC needs to skip all this bullshit and give Carwin Brock again.


Yeah, he just got subbed and gets another shot at Brock, leaving Cain out. His cardio problems were his own fault, you can't give a man another shot just because he made a mistake. That's how fights are lost, by making mistakes.


----------



## marcthegame

Rauno™ said:


> Yeah, he just got subbed and gets another shot at Brock, leaving Cain out. His cardio problems were his own fault, you can't give a man another shot just because he made a mistake. That's how fights are lost, by making mistakes.


True but Lesnar made a mistake in his first fight after his next fight they give him a title shot. It is the same situation except Carwin is established. Carwin dominated the fight. Its just politics in the UFC, hell there giving Vitor the title shot at 185 when he has never fought at 185 in the ufc. I like Cain but everyone knows Lesnar going to smash him, while not save some time and give the rematch to a man who can beat Lesnar.


----------



## MrObjective

Carwin's going to have a chance to hold the HW belt up. 

In a rematch, or vs JDS or Cain, i'd pick him without hesitation.

Dude's old, hopefully the UFC doesn't block him from big fights leading to contendership again.


----------



## coldcall420

War Carwin....


----------



## Johnni G

Good stuff.


----------



## jasvll

FrodoFraggins said:


> I'm not sure why you didn't just quote it here.


Maybe he didn't want to steal their web traffic?


----------



## HitOrGetHit

It is good to hear this from a fighter. It has been somewhat of a trend recently to blame a loss on someone something other than yourself.


----------



## The Horticulturist

jasvll said:


> Maybe he didn't want to steal their web traffic?


It's actually forum policy to quote the article, I believe. I could be wrong though.


----------



## jasvll

SJ said:


> It's actually forum policy to quote the article, I believe. I could be wrong though.


It is, but whether or not the site requires users to do it has nothing to do with why a user might not want to.


----------



## VolcomX311

Classy guy, one of the classiest responses I've heard from a fighter.


----------



## Mx2

Didn't expect anything less from Carwin. He is definitely one of my favourite fighters and I hope he makes a speedy climb back to the top of the division. 

But for now, WAR CAIN :thumb02:


----------



## boatoar

No surprises. Very humble win or lose is Shane. He won't make the same mistake ever again, so it'll be one of those 'that loss was the best thing that happened to me' when he's the champ in 12-18 months.


----------



## ESPADA9

I have to wonder if like Rich Franklin after AS beat him down will Carwin be the HW divisions brides maid? Able to beat everyone in the division except Brock?

I see only a few heavy weights matching up well with Carwin (JDS and Cain) almost everyone else I see as an easy win (although ANYTHING can happen in MMA).

The crazy thing is Carwin and Lesnar will only get better as they are both fairly new to MMA (Carwin has less time at 35yo).


----------



## leifdawg

I can't believe people are still buying "the humble champion" routine from Carwin after all the trash talking he did on the net.


----------



## Mx2

leifdawg said:


> I can't believe people are still buying "the humble champion" routine from Carwin after all the trash talking he did on the net.


What trash talk are you referring to? All I can recall is him saying he's going to knockout Brock and that Brock's leg kicks "couldn't topple a kitten." Is there anymore than that or is that what you consider trash talk?


----------



## xRoxaz

whats there to blame Carwin fought like he does but the better man won simple.


----------



## Black_S15

jasvll said:


> It is, but whether or not the site requires users to do it has nothing to do with why a user might not want to.


im new to Forums bud. still learning.

thought it would good to post the source of the article as there alot of websites that report alot of Bulls***

back on topic, i just hope carwin can get it together and work on his cardio, as classy and humble as he is he needs to fix this if he is going to have any chance at beating Brock.

we saw what he is capable of so long as his petrol tank doesnt run out.

cant wait to see him in action again!:thumbsup:


----------



## rabakill

I'm still pissed at Carwin for losing. It's not like Lesnar went out and put on a dominating performance, and it's not like Carwin's cardio can really come into question so much as his intelligence. Punching yourself out by throwing dozens of useless shots at a guys forearms and then refusing to stand back up, where that was his advantage. Dude doesn't deserve to be a champ making rookie mistakes like that, the worst part of it all is how Lesnar gets the win, it was an ass beating followed by an idiot punching another guy in his forearms followed by an anticlimactic chokeout. This fight is still frustrating me only because Carwin had the fight in the bag, all he had to do was stand back up instead of jumping on Lesnar when he kicked his leg from the ground.


----------



## Coosh

*Mir lying about not watching Carwin/Lesnar fight?*

Video of Frank Mir saying he didn't watch the Carwin/Lesnar fight because he wasn't interested






Frank Mir on his twitter the morning after the Carwin/Lesnar fight consoling Carwin and pointing out advice to Shane telling him to polish up his game, which sounds an awful lot like he watched the fight to me



http://twitter.com/thefrankmir


----------



## osmium

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm


----------



## The Horticulturist

He really said that to Carwin? And that's really his twitter background? Jeeze louise!


----------



## ptw

Mir's such a doucher hahaha


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5

I really dislike Mir at this point. The guy just rubs me the wrong way...


----------



## reydogg21

Mir is Lying IMO. How can he say he didn't watch the Lesnar vs Carwin fight??....If he ever wants to get his belt back, there is a good chance he is going have to fight either Carwin or Brock again so I'm sure he had to watch that fight whether he admits it or not. I assume he watched and recorded the fight and will study that fight carefully, and try to find any flaws or mistakes in either of there games.


----------



## The Lone Wolf

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> I really dislike Mir at this point. The guy just rubs me the wrong way...


Is there really a *right* way for a guy to rub you?

On topic - Mir is an odd fellow. I like the guy, but sometimes he says and does things which make me question his sanity. His hatred for Brock is unnatural, and is obviously a huge part of his every day life now. Creepy Mir, creepy.


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## VolcomX311

Frank's I Heart Brock Lesnar support group sponsor hasn't been checking up on him. Frank's 60 days Brock free chip may need to be revoked.


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## cdtcpl

VolcomX311 said:


> Frank's I Heart Brock Lesnar support group sponsor hasn't been checking up on him. Frank's 60 days Brock free chip may need to be revoked.


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: +rep


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## Guy Incognito

franks wife was tweeting her hole out after the brock/carwin fight and i doubt murr was any where else at that time of night.


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## mmafightergear

who gives a shit anyway
Mir is basically done as long as Brock and Shane are around


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## Calibretto9

LOL, very odd behavior.


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## coldcall420

I didnt watch the video.....I love Frank....but if he said he didnt watch that fight he is a straight up liar....


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## kay_o_ken

ha frank mirs such a tool, hes honestly my least favourite personality in mma, hes even below bisping in my books


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## osmium

I really just don't understand how the majority of MMA fans don't get this guys schtick. None of the shit he says about brock is meant to be taken seriously. He said he didn't watch the fight because everyone knows he did. He is being a snide prick to create buzz about himself.


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## VolcomX311

osmium said:


> I really just don't understand how the majority of MMA fans don't get this guys schtick. None of the shit he says about brock is meant to be taken seriously. He said he didn't watch the fight because everyone knows he did. He is being a snide prick to create buzz about himself.


It's called the Theory of Chael-Sonnentivity.

Law 1: Say crazy things with a straight face.
Law 2: Say the opposite of all things true.
Law 3: Be one with the douche.


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## JimmyJames

I remember him saying on his facebook account that he went out to dinner with the wife that night. Maybe he caught the replay. 

Does it really matter though????


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