# Fighters who Wont Tap



## ColdWeather (Dec 1, 2008)

Final Round, with a minute left. Just have to wade the fight out and you will it unanimously. Your opponent goes for broke and pulls a submission that surprises you. 

Its Deep
Your muscels are tearing
Your ligaments are snapping
Can you hold on for the last minute?


Not tapping can come with risk. Severe injury, permanent damage. While it is smart to not risk your body, some fighters have heart to not give in. 


Who possesses the ability/Pride/Heart to not admit defeat. Trying to make a list, who should be on here.


Royce Gracie (matt hughes fight, broke his arm from a kimura)
Fedor (Been in more than a few memorable submissions and waded/powered out of)
Big Nog (he wont give in)
Frankie Edgar (Tyson fight, 1m of torture)
Griffin(TKO with one arm)

*added Griffin


----------



## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

How could you not have Tim Sylvia in there? Dude tried to fight with a broken arm.


----------



## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

FORREST GRIFFIN

sorry for the caps just can't believe you left out a guy who had his forearm broken and then won by tko...


----------



## ColdWeather (Dec 1, 2008)

CornbreadBB said:


> How could you not have Tim Sylvia in there? Dude tried to fight with a broken arm.


Nog and Fedor have made him tap. 


And I just naturally assumed Mir didn't give him the chance for him to tap and went 0-100% to break his arm


----------



## ColdWeather (Dec 1, 2008)

69nites said:


> FORREST GRIFFIN
> .... you left out a guy who had his forearm broken and then won by tko...



I was going to believe you until you said Griffin won by TKO. :thumb02:


----------



## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

ColdWeather said:


> I was going to believe you until you said Griffin won by TKO. :thumb02:


it was in his fight against Edson Paredao in 2003. I was mistaken to put a t there. It was just a KO, with the other hand.


----------



## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

ColdWeather said:


> And I just naturally assumed Mir didn't give him the chance for him to tap and went 0-100% to break his arm


After that though he argued with Herb Dean that his arm was fine and he still wanted to fight. That takes balls.

Anyway, I think someone who wont ever tap is Penn. He has much too much pride for that.


----------



## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

This is what gets me for example a dude has you in a rear naked choke shit starts going black and you dont tap out. What the hell does that prove? that you are a retard. When you lose you lose. Not taping before you pass out is plain ignorant. Other cases its shows heart trying to hold on then escape to become teh victor. SOme cases you just need to tap.


----------



## Nick_Lynch (Feb 3, 2008)

Any Gracie really. Royce said the secret to not tapping when Hughes had him in the straight armbar was to think whether or not your willing to get your arm broken. In other words to have a 'Break my arm, I don't care. I'm not giving up' mentality. Pretty inspirational if you ask me.


----------



## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

TERMINATOR said:


> This is what gets me for example a dude has you in a rear naked choke shit starts going black and you dont tap out. What the hell does that prove? that you are a retard. When you lose you lose. Not taping before you pass out is plain ignorant. Other cases its shows heart trying to hold on then escape to become teh victor. SOme cases you just need to tap.


there is no reason to tap in a RNC with less than 10 seconds to go. Take the friggin chance to see another round.


----------



## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

69nites said:


> there is no reason to tap in a RNC with less than 10 seconds to go. Take the friggin chance to see another round.


Obviously there are exceptions to anything i mean anytime when you know damn well your done and your on the verge of passing out not when theres ten seconds left come on now.


----------



## ColdWeather (Dec 1, 2008)

Im not sure Sakuraba has been defeated by submission. Don't know that much of Pride though. Has he ever been in deep Deep subs?


----------



## Nick_Lynch (Feb 3, 2008)

TERMINATOR said:


> This is what gets me for example a dude has you in a rear naked choke shit starts going black and you dont tap out. What the hell does that prove? that you are a retard. When you lose you lose. Not taping before you pass out is plain ignorant. Other cases its shows heart trying to hold on then escape to become teh victor. SOme cases you just need to tap.


passing out isn't that big of a deal especially if your fighting for some big money and there's < 1 minute left.


----------



## TheAbbott (Nov 25, 2008)

Sakuraba broke Renzo's arm, he didn't tap!


----------



## Nick_Lynch (Feb 3, 2008)




----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Phil Baroni didn't tap from the RNC he received from Frank lol.

Pride is a stupid thing. I was impressed when Machida got out of Tito's triangle though, nearly made me shit my pants.


----------



## Couchwarrior (Jul 13, 2007)

ColdWeather said:


> Royce Gracie (matt hughes fight, broke his arm from a kimura)


Hughes didn't 1) apply a kimura on Royce nor 2) break Royce's arm. You're probably confusing _Royce_ Gracie with _Helio_ Gracie, who had his arm broken with a kimura by Masahiko Kimura in 1955.


----------



## ColdWeather (Dec 1, 2008)

Couchwarrior said:


> Hughes didn't 1) apply a kimura on Royce nor 2) break Royce's arm. You're probably confusing _Royce_ Gracie with _Helio_ Gracie, who had his arm broken with a kimura by Masahiko Kimura in 1955.


swoosh


----------



## TheAbbott (Nov 25, 2008)

Chuck Liddell vs Jeremy Horm, early UFC, I think it was a side choke. Passed out, didn't tap...


----------



## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

TERMINATOR said:


> Obviously there are exceptions to anything i mean anytime when you know damn well your done and your on the verge of passing out not when theres ten seconds left come on now.


you do see guys do it tho and it drives me nuts.


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

ColdWeather said:


> Im not sure Sakuraba has been defeated by submission. Don't know that much of Pride though. Has he ever been in deep Deep subs?


The deepest was when Rogerio Nogueira had him in a triangle--->armbar. Saku got out, though. Goes had an RNC on Saku, but Sakuraba willed his way out.

In real MMA, Saku has not been subbed.

Don Frye didn't tap, neither did Enson Inoue. Nogueira had to choke him out dead. Herring had to knee the hell out of him and have the ref stop the fight. Hell, Heath gave up a sub because he was afraid he'd break something.


----------



## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

I think its cool when guys dont tap to chokes but it is pretty dumb with armlocks. The way I look at it is passing out is not dangerous and at least you didnt quit. Also, if you tap you obviously had like one more second to defend the choke. I mean I would tap and you should obviously tap in training but in competition I have no problem with it. Joint locks on the other hand will give you broken bones, ligament damage, muscle damage, and will not allow you to compete for like 6-8 weeks so I think thats dumb, plus you may have to get surgery and the immediate pain would be ridiculous.


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

lawl when i roll (once in a blue moon) i get in anything that resembles a submission im tapping like a bitch. ive even tapped a few times when I wasnt in a submission but just to be safe eh :thumb02:


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

Oleg Taktarov never tapped too.


----------



## Hawkeye6287 (Mar 25, 2008)

Agree with kamikaze145 definitely consider not tapping to a choke. Think it was the Henderson v Silva fight where Silva slipped on the one armed choke with about 10 secs to go and Hendo tapped straight away. Now obviously I dont know how deep that was, or if hendo had any idea of how long was left in the fight but remember thinking at the time that he should have risked it for another 7 secs.


----------



## Bazza89 (Dec 31, 2006)

Damone said:


> Don Frye didn't tap, neither did Enson Inoue. Nogueira had to choke him out dead. Herring had to knee the hell out of him and have the ref stop the fight. Hell, Heath gave up a sub because he was afraid he'd break something.


There's tough... then there's Enson.


----------



## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

xeberus said:


> lawl when i roll (once in a blue moon) i get in anything that resembles a submission im tapping like a bitch. ive even tapped a few times when I wasnt in a submission but just to be safe eh :thumb02:


lol yeah I am extra cautious in training too. I will hold on a few extra secs and try to defend when I am rolling with guys I am really comfortable with because I know they are in control and arent going to pop my joints or anything but I have tapped to some things I would never have tapped to in competition just to be on the safe side.


----------



## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

He tapped to Jason Macdonald but damnit Ed Herman deserves some props...

TUF3 Finale - Herman and Grove have a very entertaining and taxing fight ...both are f#cking exhausted....3rd round, Grove had a RNC in pretty deep....Herman has so much heart he is prying off arms while being choked....I was forever indebted to being an Ed Herman fan when i saw this....it would have been very easy to tap in that situation....but damn what heart

Then Maia got him in a triangle, and mounted him which is one of the NASTIEST places to be IMO....taking punches at the same time....damn he doesn't tap and he goes nighty night

Ed is one tough MF'er


----------



## SpecC (Nov 18, 2007)

chris leben 

jason macdonald turned him into a corpse but he ate it like a man


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Bazza89 said:


> There's tough... then there's Enson.


This is true.

Herman also didn't tap when Misaki slapped on that arm triangle. Ed went out.


----------



## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

You've gotta add Renzo Gracie to your list. This guy has too much pride to tap. Sakuraba broke his arm and he didn't.


----------



## pauly_j (Nov 28, 2006)

Loads of Brazilians won't tap. Tim Sylvia was on mad steroids when Mir broke his arm. Ken Broke Don Fry's ankle and he still went on to take a beating from him, which makes Fry the tougherst man in the world(as if you didn't know this anyway), except for Marlon Simms who never taps.

Ever.

Just some things to think about.


----------



## ID06 (Dec 31, 2006)

kamikaze145 said:


> I think its cool when guys dont tap to chokes but it is pretty dumb with armlocks. The way I look at it is passing out is not dangerous and at least you didnt quit. Also, if you tap you obviously had like one more second to defend the choke. I mean I would tap and you should obviously tap in training but in competition I have no problem with it. Joint locks on the other hand will give you broken bones, ligament damage, muscle damage, and will not allow you to compete for like 6-8 weeks so I think thats dumb, plus you may have to get surgery and the immediate pain would be ridiculous.


I have to disagree, I think I've been choked out enough to know when I'm going out and in competition I'll usually tap a second or two before I go out. Yeah you can go to sleep but you then have a high chance of pissing or shitting yourself, not to mention some people have seizures when they come back. Doesn't seem worth another second or two to me.


----------



## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

Emerson tapped like a little bitch when he wasn't even in a submission. Maynard just slammed that fool and Emerson cried like a little girl.


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Um, no, Emerson was motioning to the ref that Maynard was out.



> Tim Sylvia was on mad steroids when Mir broke his arm.


This isn't true, he fought Frank Mir after he got suspended for roids.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Renzo is the man no doubt about it. He won't tap to anyone.


----------



## Wise (Oct 8, 2006)

Fighting until you go out on a choke I understand since really theirs almost no risk of getting seriously injured. Not tapping on an arm bar or something of the like where you can break a bone is just dumb. 

I think the Frank Edgar fighting out of the knee bar against Tyson is overrated, that sub was deep for maybe like 3 seconds and then he twisted out of it. I dont think Tyson had enough energy left to torque it. 

Renzo vs Sakuraba is probably one of my favorite subs/refuse to tap ever. Fights almost over, looks like it might go to Renzo and Sakuraba pulls out the most insane reversal into a kimura ever.


----------



## ID06 (Dec 31, 2006)

Damone said:


> Um, no, Emerson was motioning to the ref that Maynard was out.


I thought he was trying to wake him up so he could KO him again? :dunno:


----------



## Satori (Sep 18, 2008)

Interesting thread---raise01:


----------



## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

ID06 said:


> I have to disagree, I think I've been choked out enough to know when I'm going out and in competition I'll usually tap a second or two before I go out. Yeah you can go to sleep but you then have a high chance of pissing or shitting yourself, not to mention some people have seizures when they come back. Doesn't seem worth another second or two to me.


I have seen people have seizures, and heard of people pissing themselves. But some people actually shit themselves? lol that would suck. And for the record if I was caught in a choke I would tap a second or two before I passed out, I was just saying its understandable if you dont want to.


----------



## Split (Sep 28, 2006)

I think it depends on what submission you are into.

Tapping on a submission you cant get out of is ok, if there isnt enough time to hold it and be conscious or not have a permanent injury.

example of moments you should not tap : GSP vs Hughes 1. 

1 second left i think, he tapped. But its basic instincts i guess, you roll so much in training, you are used to tapping whenever its locked..

Example of not tapping and it was working out fine : Royler vs Sakuraba.. Ref stopped it, and i think it was legit, for Royler'health, but its arguable. 


But i just wanted to add on this thread : Enson is the shit.

The most priceless moment, even if it wasnt a sub.. vs Igor.. holy crap.. Enson had to dragged into his corner after 10 mins of 1st round ,and while not even able to sit on his chair, when the ref or corner called it, he was just still moaning half conscious 'no..... NO!!!'


----------



## Wise (Oct 8, 2006)

kamikaze145 said:


> I have seen people have seizures, and heard of people pissing themselves. But some people actually shit themselves? lol that would suck. And for the record if I was caught in a choke I would tap a second or two before I passed out, I was just saying its understandable if you dont want to.


If you get to the point where its a second or two before you completely pass out your ability to make a decision to tap or not goes out the window.


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Split said:


> I think it depends on what submission you are into.
> 
> Tapping on a submission you cant get out of is ok, if there isnt enough time to hold it and be conscious or not have a permanent injury.
> 
> ...


Royler vs Saku was definitely stopped at the right time. Royler was 150 pounds soaking wet, while Saku was about 180, maybe a bit higher. No doubt that Royler would've been seriously injured. 

Igor almost killed Enson in their fight. Enson went to the hospital afterwards.


----------



## Mongoose (Nov 18, 2007)

Mr. Indestructible Marlon Sims would NEVER tap.


----------



## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

That first list was pretty unrealistic, at least in my opinion. Royce Gracie? I mean, I like Royce, but he's never been in danger of tapping in a UFC fight (I know people think that the Hughes kimura attempt was dangerous, but I've explained a bunch of times why it wasn't. I'm happy to go into it again, but it seems irrelevant).

There are plenty of fighters with the heart and the balls to endure pain. Rich Franklin fought most of the Loiseau fight with a broken hand, throwing the punch the whole time. Forrest Griffin has fought with some pretty serious injuries.

But fighting with an injury and not tapping are two different things. Making an injury worse is a concern, but not tapping takes that to a whole different level of crazy, as you are often talking about a career debilitating injury (though Franklin needed some surgery on his hand).

That said, lets talk about fighters who won't tap:

Chuck Liddell has never tapped. He's been stopped, but when Horn put that choke on, Chuck went to sleep before tapping.

Tyson Griffin doesn't tap. He just doesn't

JZ (Gesias Cavalcante) has always really impressed me with his ability to keep fighter, especially in the Aoki fight, when he was in trouble a few times, not really in tight holds, but in sh*tty spots.

I would add Sylvia to this list, but he's been tapped out twice in two fights, and while before the fight with Nog he would have seemed unbreakable, he got beat.

Generally, though, you don't have many top fighters who don't tap, because a lot of those guys get their careers ended early (in the ring or in the gym) with a pretty serious injury, and most pros don't have that kind of ego.

You know who does tap, though. The Ho Bag. 100% of his losses are by submission, and that means something.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

TheAbbott said:


> Chuck Liddell vs Jeremy Horm, early UFC, I think it was a side choke. Passed out, didn't tap...


According to Chuck, he was unconscious before he even realized he was in a submission. That's how uneducated he was of the ground game back then.

LMAO @ "The Ho Bag", that's just sad. Submitted 10/10 times in the first round of each fight? Wow.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I forgot about JZ he was in some tight spots with Aoki and he gutted through them I expected him to tap a couple times in round 2.


----------



## TheJame (Sep 3, 2006)

Damone said:


> Um, no, Emerson was motioning to the ref that Maynard was out.


Boner for Emerson aside, he was motioning his injured rib to the ref. I don't think he knew Maynard was out right away.


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Re-watch the fight again, my friend. That was no tap, that was a motion.


----------



## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Houston Alexander will not tap! BAH HA HA HA:confused02::


----------



## Mongoose (Nov 18, 2007)

Marlon Sims > Rob Emerson


----------



## TheJame (Sep 3, 2006)

Damone said:


> Re-watch the fight again, my friend. That was no tap, that was a motion.


I'll re-watch it tonight, just to be safe, but I've seen that fight several times and the replay dozens of times. Looked like a tap to me. 

He DEFINITELY tapped against Diaz. No arguement there.


----------



## Juanez13 (Dec 9, 2008)

Just about every Gracie.


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

TheJame said:


> I'll re-watch it tonight, just to be safe, but I've seen that fight several times and the replay dozens of times. Looked like a tap to me.
> 
> He DEFINITELY tapped against Diaz. No arguement there.


He tapped, but Rotten Rob was really sick going into that fight. He fought because he's a warrior. It's hard to beat a really good fighter in Nate Diaz when you're sick as a dog. 

Otsuka not tapping against Kikuta (Kikuta had him in an armbar) was one of the most horrific things I have seen in MMA. It's about on par with Damacio Page breaking Rod Montoya's arm. Just awful to watch.

One thing that gets me: people not tapping from armbars.


----------



## Robb2140 (Oct 21, 2006)

We've gone this far without a mention of "The Polar Bear"??? 

Paul Varelans was a crappy fighter who could take major punishment, The only man to tap him was Dan Severn by arm triangle, other than that, Varelans took some serious beatings and refused to give up.


----------



## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

Razak al Hassan:thumb02:


----------



## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Sekou said:


> Razak al Hassan:thumb02:


Hahaha that was my exact first thought when I read the title of this thread again.


----------



## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

haha lol .


----------



## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

One thing regarding tapping to a RNC. A good majority of the time I don't use the RNC as a blood choke if the person is well versed in defense and 'two on one'. I'll use a modified RNC as a pain submission such as a jaw dislocation or larnyx crush. They look pretty close to the same but they definitely aren't 'choke' submissions and if you land them right they can cause a faster tap than fading out from a blood choke. You can do similar things with the guillotine.

My stance is always 'if they don't tap, break it', even in training. However I will typically give them a verbal warning in the odd event they don't understand their position. I don't want to cause serious injury to someone because they simply weren't aware of the threat of the lock/submission. That being said, I tap in training and competition if someone gets the better of me.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Fieos said:


> One thing regarding tapping to a RNC. A good majority of the time I don't use the RNC as a blood choke if the person is well versed in defense and 'two on one'. I'll use a modified RNC as a pain submission such as a jaw dislocation or larnyx crush. They look pretty close to the same but they definitely aren't 'choke' submissions and if you land them right they can cause a faster tap than fading out from a blood choke. You can do similar things with the guillotine.
> 
> My stance is always 'if they don't tap, break it', even in training. However I will typically give them a verbal warning in the odd event they don't understand their position. I don't want to cause serious injury to someone because they simply weren't aware of the threat of the lock/submission. That being said, I tap in training and competition if someone gets the better of me.


I do the same thing with face crushers. If I can't get the RNC with my forearm, I bring it up over my opponent's nose and squeeze, usually it causes them to squirm which allows me to switch to the RNC.


----------

