# Sonnen vs. Griffin set for December 29th



## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Chael just confirmed it on UFC Tonight, at 205 of course.


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

*Sonnen vs. Forrest*

Per Helwani's Twitter, Sonnen says he's fighting Forrest Dec 29th. Can't wait to see Sonnen at LHW.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Wonder if this'll have the same ending as their first fight. Forrest locking up a submission, good god I hope so 

For nostalgias sake-


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

Interesting match up let's see who has the better TRT


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Sonnen vs. Griffin II*


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Sonnen by TKO. Griffin has looked terrible as of late and getting dropped by Tito twice doesn't help his cause.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

:confused02::confused02:*But pretty sure it isn't relevant....*:confused02::confused02:


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

I'm pretty sure this one's going to be left in the hands of some judges.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

A fight that completely fails to capture the imagination.


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## BigPont (Nov 19, 2007)

Don't really care about this fight to be honest.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Ummm okay? 

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## 3DLee (Aug 30, 2006)

Im really surprised at the people sleeping on this. I mean this fight has FUN written all over it. Sonnen moving up to 205 is great to me. It shows hes saying "ya know, ill never get to fight AS again and that sucks, so imma move up and go after another title". **** YEA Chael, **** YEA! lol. And Forrest is no slouch. The name recognition alone makes this fight a must watch.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Chael by UD. Yawn.

No one cares about Forrest anymore.


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## WarCraved (Jul 9, 2012)

I'm going out on a limb here, and saying that Sonnen finishes Forrest via TKO.

Crazy right?


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I am actually interested in the fight, just cause Sonnen is moving up and Forrest is one of the largest guys at LHW, going to be interesting to see how Sonnen does in this division and I think Forrest is a good entry fight for him.


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## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

I did not expect this at all. Not too interested in this fight, but come fight night I know I'll be more interested than I am now. 

If Forrest loses I can see him maybe contemplating retirement or be very close to it. Hopefully it's an entertaining fight.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

At this point in their careers Chael is a lot better than Forrest. I see this as Forrest's retirement fight. He hasn't looked like he's enjoyed himself for what seems like a very long time now.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

If Chael doesn't destroy Forrest then he won't have much fun at LHW. Could be a really rubbish fight, two tough guys who have goofy striking and smothering ground games, who don't do much damage.

In fact this fight could be straight up comical.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

I really hate that when I hear about a Griffin fight I now instantly get bored  Sonnen at 205 is interesting, but this fight isn't.


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## MLD (Oct 15, 2006)

I'm actually interested in this, although I would have never expected it. Yes Chael has a smothering ground game, and yes Forrest hasn't looked like his heart is in it, but both of these fighters have given entertaining and very surprising performances. Anything could happen in this fight.


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## Abrissbirne (Jul 4, 2010)

Sonnen by Griffin collecting a paycheck.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

M.C said:


> I am actually interested in the fight, just cause Sonnen is moving up and Forrest is one of the largest guys at LHW, going to be interesting to see how Sonnen does in this division and I think Forrest is a good entry fight for him.


This pretty much sums up my thoughts on this fight.

I think it's a fun fight and Im looking forward to seeing it.


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## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

This fight doesnt make any sense. The reality of it is that Chael should be fighting Rich. Rich is at the end of his career and instead of Lee, Rich should have to face Chael and Bisping. If he beats both I say Rich vs Silva 3 and if Rich loses retire. I say Forest fights Vera to be honest.Bisping and Rich is a much more interesting fight.


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## batman21au (Feb 3, 2008)

I wonder if this is some sort of punishment for griffin due to the after fight interview with Tito? Sonnen will probably publicly destroy griffin in interviews and make him cry and run out of the cage..


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Dana White: Please Chael can you retire Forrest for me, he's becoming a real pain in the ass

Chael: I'll even submit him for you


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Did they open a TRT division while I was gone?


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

Sonnen by UD sadly. He should smother and pitter-patter Forrest without much trouble. Forrest has the groundgame to give Chael trouble, but he's too mentaly gone since long to even be competative. 

This fight bores me to death already.


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## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

Griffin via triangle.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Sonnen should be able to avoid the submission this time and keep Griffin on his back for the entire fight. It will be interesting to see how he looks in strength at LHW though and it will be good to see if Griffin can still pull off submissions (like he used to whenever I faught him in UFC Undisputed 2 ).

I'm happy with this fight.


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## RWCNT (Dec 16, 2010)

I think Forrest has a fair chance of throwing those long legs up and grabbing a submission win over Chael. I'll be rooting for Sonnen anyway, I wonder what his body composition will be like at 205.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I only want Sonnen to win because of the potential matches that we could see down the line.

Sonnen Vs Evans
Sonnen Vs Machida
Sonnen Vs Bader
Sonnen Vs Hendo

I don't see him doing great at 205 but he might prove me wrong. I think his main level of opponents will be Brandon Vera and James Te Huna. He will dominate a few guys but when he steps up to even Bader's level I think his striking weaknesses will see him take some brutal knockouts.


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## RWCNT (Dec 16, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I think his striking weaknesses will see him take some brutal knockouts.


What striking weaknesses?


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

K R Y said:


> I really hate that when I hear about a Griffin fight I now instantly get bored  Sonnen at 205 is interesting, but this fight isn't.


Agreed, and I'm a former Griffin fan. I'm not the type to just fall off people's band wagons... but when you have a series of fights where all you do is slowly extend your fist towards your opponents face for three rounds apprently to show them your glove... it just really turns me away.

If the Forrest of 07-08 still existed, I'm all in... but I'm pretty sure he's gone forever.

Frankly, I'm probably going to pull for Sonnen here simply because I'd like to see a victor who will progress and create some more interesting fights.


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## tommydaone (Feb 19, 2010)

Sweet, glad to see Sonnen is still motivated and looking for a challenge. That being said I can't see Forrest putting up much of a challenge.

Sonnen via 1st round TKO, followed by a swift sprint out of the arena from Forrest


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## dem0x7 (Aug 7, 2011)

Damn... not really interested in this matchup to be honest.. 

I would have liked to see Sonnen vs Rashad Evans that would have been a great matchup.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

RWCNT said:


> What striking weaknesses?


All of them? he really doesn't have any striking strenghts.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Meh, not too into this fight tbh.


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

Forest bairly got past an aged Tito. I think Sonnen wins by UD.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

He may beat Forrest, but I highly highly doubt he has a bright future at 205.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

If Griffin gets his head straight this will be a war that's talked about for years. :thumbsup:


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

Im going to go against the grain and say this is going to be a great fight with Griffin subbing Sonnen in the 2nd!


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Forrest Griffin via Submission (triangle choke)	in the 1st round at 2:25. Mark my words.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

What a worthless fight


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## RWCNT (Dec 16, 2010)

mmaswe82 said:


> All of them? he really doesn't have any striking strenghts.


How many of Chael's fights have you seen? You've said something, but you havn't backed it up with any kind of reasoning or example.

We've never seen him get schooled on the feet by anyone. Granted he got dropped by the best striker in MMA, but that was after he was badly winded from a brutal knee to the body on the ground. That remains the only time the man has ever been stopped via strikes. Statistically, he's also the least hit middleweight in UFC history. While it's not his bread and butter, Chael Sonnen is not a bad stand-up fighter for MMA by any stretch.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

I'm assuming they're making this fight happen to see is Chael is ready for the heavier class. We'll see if Forrest has the heart and chin left (although Sonnen's punches aren't that hard, they are effective).

I honestly see Forrest losing, but it's not out of the realm to expect a miracle sub from Forrest ... :laugh:


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Perfect move. 205 class sucks right now and Sonnen won't see gold at 185.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Sonnen by spinning backfist. Round 2.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Perfect move. 205 class sucks right now and Sonnen won't see gold at 185.


Well he sure isn't seeing it at 205. I think he gets completely demolished by the topdogs and struggles with mid tier fighters.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

HitOrGetHit said:


> Well he sure isn't seeing it at 205. I think he gets completely demolished by the topdogs and struggles with mid tier fighters.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using VerticalSports


So, you're saying he's top 10?


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

oldfan said:


> So, you're saying he's top 10?


He certainly will be after your prediction comes true.


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

LizaG said:


> Wonder if this'll have the same ending as their first fight. Forrest locking up a submission, good god I hope so
> 
> For nostalgias sake-


Funny how 10 years later their styles havnt changed at all, except they just a little better at doing it. I wouldnt be surprised if their fight turns out the exact same.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

oldfan said:


> So, you're saying he's top 10?


I'm saying he isn't going to do any better at 205 and isn't going to beat anyone near the top. He stands a better chance winning fights at 185.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Let's see if he treats him the same way Silva did. Probably not  not the most exiting match ever, but it will be interesting to see Chael back at 205

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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

Cheal Sonnan by Inverted Americana


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I would be surprised to say the least if Chael subbed Forrest.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

oldfan said:


> Sonnen by spinning backfist. Round 2.


this was funny:hug:

But yea, I like the move to 205. But I don't care for the fight. 

I guess it will be interesting to see how Chael does vs. a bigger blackbelt. 

And interesting to see Forrest vs. some pillow hands. Maybe he can take some shots and while being able to work his BJJ. 

My question is what happens if this is all stand up? I think Sonnen has the better hands. But Forrest has the length and kicks.



HitOrGetHit said:


> Well he sure isn't seeing it at 205. I think he gets completely demolished by the topdogs and struggles with mid tier fighters.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using VerticalSports


Well at least he has potential to work his way up to a title shot. Even if he were to get smashed by Bones. There isn't much at 205 right now. I think he will balk up and could easily beat some tough guys. I think he could beat Gustaf. Bader. Shogun/Sonnen would be interesting with how much Shogun seems to be slowing. 

At the VERY least there are at least interesting matchups. What about Sonnen/Lil Nog? Sonnen/Machida? Sonnen/Rashad? Sonnen/Rampage? Fresh matchusps.

Besides. He has had hard weight cuts for a few fights now. He probably almost NEEDS to make the move anyway.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

I feel like Forrest has made it clear he has no real motivation. He basically walks around wearing this:










Then you have Sonnen, who is kind of in limbo after losing to Anderson twice. Make it a catch weight and you have all the making of a fight I really don't see any relevance in.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Ape City said:


> I feel like Forrest has made it clear he has no real motivation. He basically walks around wearing this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why? Sonnen is going to 205 and Forrest is staying at 205.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Why? Sonnen is going to 205 and Forrest is staying at 205.


It's not a catch weight? I must have been freaking hammered last night. For some weird reason I thought I read is was a catch-weight. That's a little better then.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

No it's at 205, I don't think it's possible for Forrest to make anything below 205, he and Rampage are the biggest LHW's out there at 240 when not in camp.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Damn. I was hoping to see Sonnen retire Wanderlei


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

If Forrest can defend the takedown he's got this.


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## RWCNT (Dec 16, 2010)

kc1983 said:


> If Forrest can defend the takedown he's got this.


That is a gigantic "if".

Is Forrest still training at Xtreme Couture? Considering Randy was one of Chael's mentors coming into MMA I wonder will Randy be helping out Forrest with some tips and tricks to negate the strengths of his former pupil...


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

kc1983 said:


> If Forrest can defend the takedown he's got this.


Forrest was getting dropped regularly by Tito and Chael stunned Anderson.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Chael stunned an injured Anderson.

He didn't do shit in their second fight.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

RWCNT said:


> That is a gigantic "if".
> 
> Is Forrest still training at Xtreme Couture? Considering Randy was one of Chael's mentors coming into MMA I wonder will Randy be helping out Forrest with some tips and tricks to negate the strengths of his former pupil...


Pretty sure forrest left Xtreme couture to train at some little gym in Georgia again. Plus randys takedowns and chaels are completely different anyway.

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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Hoping the slow Forrest in the Tito fight is a one off bad night after some time off from the cage. Forrest can use his size to smother Sonnen if he's physically and mentally in this fight, Forrest make get taken down, but he can sweep and avoid any damege (fingers crossed).

I'm never quick to write Forrest off totally, the guy is tougher than people give him credit for.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I think a lot of people know how tough Forrest is. But his motivation has been questionable for some time now.


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## 3DLee (Aug 30, 2006)

'memba that one time when Griffin tapped Shogun and went on to decision Rampage and won the title? me neither.


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## WarCraved (Jul 9, 2012)

I even see Chael beating Forrest standing. Chael is still very motivated, while Forrest... isn't. 

I'm still excited for it though.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

hellholming said:


> Chael stunned an injured Anderson.
> 
> He didn't do shit in their second fight.


Except win the first round, and the bulk of the second up until he slipped on a bananna peel.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Except win the first round, and the bulk of the second up until he slipped on a bananna peel.


He didn't win teh first round by standing strikes, he did it by some weak GNP shots.

and he wasn't exactly dominating in the second before he lost either. He was going for takedowns, which Anderson stuffed.


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## Grotty (Jul 21, 2006)

I used to be a Forrest fan, that was sometime ago, i lost interest in watching him when he seemed to lose interest in fighting. Sonnen is entertaining but i cant see him lasting long at 205, maybe if he fights lower tier 205's but i see his career slowing down.
I have respect for both men and their previous fight history however this fight sadly does not spark any enthusiasm from me.


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## Old school fan (Aug 24, 2011)

It seems old Sonnen is coming to LHW to stay. Bones is biting the bait already, or just playing along, for all we know :laugh::

https://twitter.com/JonnyBones/status/235811958761353216


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

Sonnen is in the same situation that Rich Franklin was in when Anderson arrived in the UFC. However I don't see Sonnen being as competitive. He was having trouble getting some of the middleweight fighters to the ground and I think he'll really struggle at 205 to get it done. If Sonnen can't get the fight down to the ground he's probably on the losing end of some decisions at best.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Except win the first round, and the bulk of the second up until he slipped on a bananna peel.


What fight did you watch?

In the 2nd round I watched Sonnen get hit in the face. Try hard for some TDs but get stuffed. Get hit in the face some more. Became so desperate he tried a spinning backfist and fell on his face...

And the first round was pretty sad. Anderson ran right into a TD and Chael laid on him the whole round doing close to nothing. Landing nothing even decent. While Anderson chilled out and took a breather for the round. But yea, I guess he was scored the round from sitting on him.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Nah, Chael was winning that second round. Anderson managed to stuff a couple of takedowns, but didn't do much else. If Chael didn't throw that awful spinning backfist it would have been a hell of a lot different, he dominated the first round!

I love this fight. Sure, Forrest is pretty much irrelevant now in the LHW division, but the countdown show will be entertaining as hell, and it'll be a great fight. Forrest could shock Chael with his Jiu JItsu, but I see Chael dominating, and potentially finishing him. Chael's going to take the division by storm and have a shot against Jones by the middle of next year.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

No, Chael was not winning round two. He had three takedowns stuffed, was outstruck, got desperate, and then was finished. He won the first round hands down. There is no argument for him winning the second round. At all. 

As for this fight... I just don't care. I don't see Chael even getting to a title fight at LHW without supremely favorable match ups. Rashad, Phil Davis, and Gustaffson - I believe - would all beat him rather easily. Bader is even iffy. Lyoto or Jones would murder him. It's just not a good division for Chael.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Why does it matter if he was winning round 2 or not? He got TKO'd. Nothing to really argue about.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Danm2501 said:


> Nah, Chael was winning that second round. Anderson managed to stuff a couple of takedowns, but didn't do much else. If Chael didn't throw that awful spinning backfist it would have been a hell of a lot different, he dominated the first round!


You are delusional man. But most Sonnen fans are.

He dominated the 1st? You would call getting 1 TD and laying on a guy domination? Really? Anderson didn't even care that he was on bottom. He wrapped his ass up and took close to NO damage the first round. Chael landed nothing hard.

He was winning the 2nd? Why because he got his TDs all stuffed by Anderson? Exactly what did he do the 2nd round that you claim he was winning?

If he didn't throw a spinning backfist? Perhaps you should ask WHY Sonnen would throw a stupid spinning backfist? If you happened to think logically you would realize because he was desperate and because he couldn't get the fight to the ground to layon him somemore. He did something THAT dumb, because he couldn't do anything else. 

Get your head out of your ass and be objective. It is ok to like Sonnen. But lets not recall things that didn't happen. But then again those 2 things usually go hand in hand.:thumbsdown:


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

geez y'all move on to the next fight already. Whether that backfist was Pure desperation or brilliant surprise, Silva tripped him. Pure luck or super ninja shit?

just depends on who you rootin for.




I say Sonnen beats up Opey bad.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

When does Sonnen beat up guys bad? He probably beats Forrest by TDs and pillow punches. 

But hey, Sonnen fans believe that is domination and violence. LOL


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> When does Sonnen beat up guys bad? He probably beats Forrest by TDs and pillow punches.
> 
> But hey, Sonnen fans believe that is domination and violence. LOL


Nothing pains me more than hearing about "x" fighter throws pillow punches. Go train for a day and spar with a few people. Better yet, let someone lay on top of you for 15 mins while they throw "pillow" punches to your ribs and your head. You will probably tap to strikes within the 2 minute mark. 





Basically, if you haven't trained mma, then you have no right to diss a fighter's "power". Stfu.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

I figured it out. This fight is Dana punishing all those guilty of streaming PPVs. Makes total sense now.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Maybe the UFC is trying to build Sonnen up at LHW? Still... stupid fight.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> Nothing pains me more than hearing about "x" fighter throws pillow punches. Go train for a day and spar with a few people. Better yet, let someone lay on top of you for 15 mins while they throw "pillow" punches to your ribs and your head. You will probably tap to strikes within the 2 minute mark.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have no right to diss a guys power if I have never trained MMA...right.

Perhaps none of the 90% of people here should ever talk ill of a fighters skillset because they haven't trained.

Right...

Sorry. Reletive to other 185 and 205 pound fighters he has pillow hands. As is evident in that he stops NO ONE even though he is usually on top of them for the whole fight.

You need to relax a bit.:confused03:

Sorry to "pain" you so much over making reference to a guy's punches compared to other pro martial artists. Didn't know you were so emotional.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I have no right to diss a guys power if I have never trained MMA...right.
> 
> Perhaps none of the 90% of people here should ever talk ill of a fighters skillset because they haven't trained.
> 
> ...


It's not that. It is that you honestly believe he's not hurting his opponents, when in reality, if you had done some training, you would know that he is, without a shadow of a doubt, hurting his opponents. 

Oh and he did just stop brian stann didn't he? You think if brian stann wasn't worried about getting hit in the body/face he would have got caught in that arm triangle? Nah. He got subbed because chael pressured him with strikes which caused his mistake and chael capitalized.


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## RWCNT (Dec 16, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> What fight did you watch?
> 
> In the 2nd round I watched Sonnen get hit in the face. Try hard for some TDs but get stuffed. Get hit in the face some more. Became so desperate he tried a spinning backfist and fell on his face...
> 
> And the first round was pretty sad. Anderson ran right into a TD and Chael laid on him the whole round doing close to nothing. Landing nothing even decent. While Anderson chilled out and took a breather for the round. But yea, I guess he was scored the round from sitting on him.





jonnyg4508 said:


> If he didn't throw a spinning backfist? Perhaps you should ask WHY Sonnen would throw a stupid spinning backfist? If you happened to think logically you would realize because he was desperate and because he couldn't get the fight to the ground to layon him somemore. He did something THAT dumb, because he couldn't do anything else.


Spinning backfists arn't dumb, Chael just fell over. You also have no idea why he threw it, none of us do. You, much like athiests bitching over youtube comments, seem to think throwing the word "Logic" into your diatribe somehow supports your complete speculation.

Anyway, Chael and Silva nuthuggers are as bad as eachother with how they interpret what they're seeing.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> You are delusional man. But most Sonnen fans are.
> 
> He dominated the 1st? You would call getting 1 TD and laying on a guy domination? Really? Anderson didn't even care that he was on bottom. He wrapped his ass up and took close to NO damage the first round. Chael landed nothing hard.
> 
> ...


In the first, Sonnen definently won. Anderson went out swinging and was taken down and controlled. In the first fight, Sonnen was battering him with GnP, but Anderson had greatly improved his work in stifling his opponent's attacks from the top position. He managed to wrap Sonnen up and didn't take many shots. Regardless, he clearly lost the first.

In the second, again Sonnen was winning. He secured a takedown if I'm right and had Silva down for a little bit. Silva manages to stop some takedowns which was very impressive, but again he didn't really do much on the offence. Until the backfist, I'm not sure if he even landed a strike.

I agree that the backfist was dumb, but he wasn't desperate. He was winning two rounds and had a much harder time taking Stann to the ground in the early stages. He wasn't frustrated, he's a takedown expert and if he could keep Silva there in the first, when he gets tired as the fight progresses I'm sure Sonnen thought it'd be a piece of cake to recreate the early control.

And for the record, I completley HATE Sonnen and think Silva is the GOAT of all fighting...

And on topic, I don't get why people say this fight isn't good. Sonnen is moving up from MW, so he already starts low down on the ranks. Couple in that he lost two title shots at MW and is coming off of an L, he starts right at the bottom of LHW, or at least should. They instead bumped him up to face Forrest, who is coming off of a fight of the night win and a W/L against MW and LHW contenders respectively. I think it's a fair fight. Sonnen might not be as strong at 205 and Forrest can at times be a good striker so if you put the stand up element together, Forrest has a lot of chance. He also has a win by triangle over Sonnen, and if Chael has anydown side it's still his sub defence. On the other hand, you have one of the most talented fighters in the entire UFC, and undoubtably the best wrestler moving up to a bigger and badder weight class. Everything is fine to me. It might not be the most exciting, but if thats the case Jake Shields should be in the unemployment line, right next to Cheick Congo.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

AlphaDawg said:


> Why does it matter if he was winning round 2 or not? He got TKO'd. Nothing to really argue about.


I'm not arguing that he lost. I'm arguing that he did anything but 'not do shit'. I'm tired of delusional Silva fans trying to dismiss the fact that Chael has been Anderson's biggest threat. It's laughable.

Sonnen won the first. Controlled the cage in the second. And then got TKOed. That was the fight. Deal with it, as I do.


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## tight (Aug 26, 2007)

Seems like a pointless fight, might be interesting but can't say I'm interested. Time to tweet to Dana to come up with something more interesting for Chael.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

tight said:


> Seems like a pointless fight, might be interesting but can't say I'm interested. *Time to tweet to Dana to come up with something more interesting for Chael.*


yeah, good luck with that. :thumbsup:


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Dana would love to give Chael a title shot. If Bones beats Hendo, Machida and Gus, (assuming he doesn't lose) I would bet my sweaty underwear that They will give it to Chael if he wins 2 fights at LHW.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Sonnen* LnPed *the first. *Got stuffed repeatedly and picked apart on the feet* in the second. And then got TKOed. That was the fight. Deal with it, as I do.


Fixed


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Changes nothing. Anderson stuffed the takedowns, but couldn't avoid being pressed against the cage. We all know where that gets you with MMA judging. And lol at anyone who claims Sonnen was picked apart prior to that lovely knee. My God, the Silva fans can't even win graciously.

He won. In spectacular fashion. I accept that. It is sad, however, that some of you still have to grasp at such ridiculous straws.

Anderson permitted himself to be taken down. lol...


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

I thought Anderson was losing the fight up until that knee.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

I think Silva was doing alright in the 2nd, him stopping the takedowns put the fear into Sonnen as he knew he would not win a 5 round fight pressing Silva up against the cage and taking shots standing. 

You could give him a slight edge in the 2nd up to that spinning backfist but the bigger picture was looking bleak.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> It's not that. It is that you honestly believe he's not hurting his opponents, when in reality, if you had done some training, you would know that he is, without a shadow of a doubt, hurting his opponents.
> 
> Oh and he did just stop brian stann didn't he? You think if brian stann wasn't worried about getting hit in the body/face he would have got caught in that arm triangle? Nah. He got subbed because chael pressured him with strikes which caused his mistake and chael capitalized.


Dude. Chill out. Don't take everything so personal. 

I called him pillow hands because in my opinion he doesn't end fights with his hands like other MWs can. I'm sure he hits pretty hard. I'm not saying myself at 5'10 170lbs with no training would want to take his punch. 

Relax.

My God. Get some thicker skin.



RWCNT said:


> Spinning backfists arn't dumb, Chael just fell over. You also have no idea why he threw it, none of us do. You, much like athiests bitching over youtube comments, seem to think throwing the word "Logic" into your diatribe somehow supports your complete speculation.
> 
> Anyway, Chael and Silva nuthuggers are as bad as eachother with how they interpret what they're seeing.


You honestly think Sonnen wanted to throw that backfist? Backfists aren't dumb? Yes they are if you are a wrestler facing one of the most elusive fighters of all time. Why would a wrestler throw a spinning backfist against ANderson Silva?

He did because his TDs weren't working. So what else were he to do besides get desperate? 

He ended up falling on his ass after he got handled the whole 2nd round. If you watch the fight it is easy to realize. 

Why didn't Sonnen throw a stupid spinning backfist the whole first fight? Because he wasn't desperate. Because his TDs were working.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> I'm not arguing that he lost. I'm arguing that he did anything but 'not do shit'. I'm tired of delusional Silva fans trying to dismiss the fact that Chael has been Anderson's biggest threat. It's laughable.
> 
> Sonnen won the first. Controlled the cage in the second. And then got TKOed. That was the fight. Deal with it, as I do.


How do you control the cage in the 2nd if most all of your TDs get stuffed? How is that controlling the cage? Fact is Sonnen's wrestling stopped working. Anderson hit him with punches long before Chael went tumbling to the ground. Anderson was punching him in the face the whole round.

No one is disputing Chael has been Anderson's biggest threat. Show me where someone has or quit making shit up.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

I thought we would see Forrest vs Bonnar and see them both walk away after the fight.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> How do you control the cage in the 2nd if most all of your TDs get stuffed? How is that controlling the cage? Fact is Sonnen's wrestling stopped working. Anderson hit him with punches long before Chael went tumbling to the ground. Anderson was punching him in the face the whole round.
> 
> No one is disputing Chael has been Anderson's biggest threat. Show me where someone has or quit making shit up.


Cage control, genius. That Silva stuffed one or two TDs doesn't mean his back wasn't against the cage the bulk of the second. We both know who scores points in that scenrio, and so you can stop blindly ignoring it.

And lol @ you accusing anyone of 'making shit up'. You're desperately trying to convey that Silva was handing Sonnen his ass up until Chael stumbled over himself, which is so far from the truth it's no longer worth entertaining.

Get over yourself. I'll let one of the other dozen or so posters in disagreement with you carry on this useless discussion.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

blah, blah, blah....everyone, Silva won! 

Now please, let's focus on the Sonnen - Griffin fight.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

hellholming said:


> blah, blah, blah....everyone, Silva won!
> 
> Now please, let's focus on the Sonnen - Griffin fight.


Sonnen pressures griffin with his boxing, gets the double, and maintains top control for the rest of the first round.

Does the same in the second.

3rd round, griffin gives up. Taps to strikes. walks out the cage. retires.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

How is Chael a favorite when Forrest beat em before. That's hilarious. It would appear that everybody has lost faith in Forrest. 

Odds: 

Chael is -300 
Forrest is +220


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> How is Chael a favorite when Forrest beat em before. That's hilarious. It would appear that everybody has lost faith in Forrest.
> 
> Odds:
> 
> ...


9 years ago. Since then Chael has only gotten better while Forrest has seemed to decline.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

MikeHawk said:


> 9 years ago. Since then Chael has only gotten better while Forrest has seemed to decline.


Forrest got better then declined*


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## RWCNT (Dec 16, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> You honestly think Sonnen wanted to throw that backfist? Backfists aren't dumb? Yes they are if you are a wrestler facing one of the most elusive fighters of all time. Why would a wrestler throw a spinning backfist against ANderson Silva?
> 
> He did because his TDs weren't working. So what else were he to do besides get desperate?
> 
> ...


Whats the point in posting again if you're just going to repeat yourself? You're still offering nothing to back up your statement apart from your so called "logic" and stupid statements like "If you watch the fight it's easy to realize". Yeah buddy, you're the only person here who actually watched the fight, OK.

Do I think Sonnen wanted to throw a backfist? Yes, I know he did, or else he wouldn't have thrown it? Why would a wrestler throw a spinning backfist at Anderson Silva? The same reason they'd throw a jab, a right cross, a hook, a leg kick probably...to hit the guy? Chael's not just a wrestler, he's an MMA fighter and he's practised that move for years. 
It's not like Silva threw some incredible counter to the SBF that clocked Chael cold, he just slipped, the same thing could have happened if he threw a leg kick for god's sake.

That point about Chael getting desperate because the takedowns not working is daft anyway, you're acting like Silva didn't stuff any of Chael's takedowns in their first fight. You have a much better chance of completing a takedown if you shoot in while your opponent has their hands up to defend strikes, so it's necessary most of the time to stand with your opponent for a bit to keep them guessing rather than just shooting the whole fight.

Anyway what do I know, you've watched a fight on TV, you're clearly the expert.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

RWCNT said:


> How many of Chael's fights have you seen? You've said something, but you havn't backed it up with any kind of reasoning or example.
> 
> We've never seen him get schooled on the feet by anyone. Granted he got dropped by the best striker in MMA, but that was after he was badly winded from a brutal knee to the body on the ground. That remains the only time the man has ever been stopped via strikes. Statistically, he's also the least hit middleweight in UFC history. While it's not his bread and butter, Chael Sonnen is not a bad stand-up fighter for MMA by any stretch.


Well to be honest the only reason he doesn't get hit much is because he wrestles everyone, not because of his standup. He doesn't get schooled on the feet because noone can keep it there.

Has he ever done anything impressive standing except catching Silva by surprize once in the best fight of his career, and also Silvas worst fight.

His standup looks goofy and awkward & he also tried a spinning attack against the best triker in the UFC, wich makes me believe he has a bit bad fighting-iq when it comes to striking.

So I ask you what has he ever done to prove he has any kind of striking skills? He has a good chin and great wrestling so he charges ppl and holds them down, hence the statistics.


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## PanKrato (Mar 5, 2007)

No way Chael loses this fight. Forrest just doesn't do anything anymore... it's like he forgot how to fight.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

PanKrato said:


> No way Chael loses this fight. Forrest just doesn't do anything anymore... it's like he forgot how to fight.


Eh. I would typically agree with you. I also thought that there was no way Franklin would lose to Griffin...

Griffin turned out to be just too big for Franklin. He may be too big for Chael. Chael's going to expend a lot of energy taking a guy like Forrest down and holding him.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

RWCNT said:


> What striking weaknesses?


My mistake. I guess Sonnen looked awesome when he knoocked Silva out twice, but he got schooled in boxing by Cody McKenzie.

What's MMA again?


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Eh. I would typically agree with you. I also thought that there was no way Franklin would lose to Griffin...
> 
> Griffin turned out to be just too big for Franklin. He may be too big for Chael. Chael's going to expend a lot of energy taking a guy like Forrest down and holding him.


Sonnen would whoop Franklin's ass.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

*Don't get carried away in here guys*


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Not all that interested but I think Forest has a fair chance at the W.

He's a better striker and he can throw up decent subs. If Sonnen can't control the fight with his wrestling he'll likely lose, I think he can but we shall see.

Also I question Forrest's motivation I mean if he doesn't show up ready then he's going to lose.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

No_Mercy said:


> How is Chael a favorite when Forrest beat em before. That's hilarious. *It would appear that everybody has lost faith in Forrest*.
> 
> Odds:
> 
> ...


I believe the only time Forrest has been the favorite since the Ramirez fight in 2007 was with the Tito fights. This is why Griffin is so underrated the guy has had more upsets at the top level than anybody.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

I might be being a bit black and white but if Tito can take him down and throw down soem GnP Sonnen should be able too all night long - i dont think the size difference between Chael and most LHWs is all that much, he was cutting a hell of a lot to boil down to 185.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

The only thing is, Tito has a naturally decent sub defence. Chael doesn't, and to me Anderson Silva's submission game is slightly overrated because he doesn't work a lot from the bottom. I think Forrest will work a little harder and theres a chance that he can pull off another triangle. But no doubt Chael is taking this down (a phrase said before all of his fights)


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Sonnen would whoop Franklin's ass.


Probably. That wasn't my point though. The point was that Griffin is a big ******* dude. That could pose some serious cardio problems for a guy with Chael's style who's used to fighting at 185.


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## PanKrato (Mar 5, 2007)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Probably. That wasn't my point though. The point was that Griffin is a big ******* dude. That could pose some serious cardio problems for a guy with Chael's style who's used to fighting at 185.


You realize Chael is bigger than Rashad Evans right?


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

PanKrato said:


> You realize Chael is bigger than Rashad Evans right?


They are different fighters and Rashad is a better, more complete fighter than Chael is. IMO! (Add that last part before the Sonnen lovers come out and get me)


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Eh Chael got outmuscled by Babalu at LHW back in the day.

I don't think Forrest wants it enough to get the W though.


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## RWCNT (Dec 16, 2010)

mmaswe82 said:


> Well to be honest the only reason he doesn't get hit much is because he wrestles everyone, not because of his standup. He doesn't get schooled on the feet because noone can keep it there.
> 
> Has he ever done anything impressive standing except catching Silva by surprize once in the best fight of his career, and also Silvas worst fight.
> 
> ...


Fair points that he does spend the vast bulk of his fight time on the mat, but I've seen him trade in nearly every fight he's been in and I've never seen him brutally tooled. (Recent loss aside, that knee to the body against the cage took his soul before Anderson then proceeded to rip what was left to shreds) Thats about as much proof as I need to decide I think his stand up skills are at least average, definitely not poor.

I'll take that you think his striking looks goofy and awkward but I think this about a lot of MMA fighters to be honest. Wanderlei Silva's striking technique is for the most part very incorrect technically speaking (wild swings and arm punches), Shane Carwin and Dan Henderson's boxing isn't the easiest on the eyes either, Fedor was as flat-footed as they come and overcommited to a lot of his power strikes. But I've always thought of MMA striking as boiling down to effectiveness as part of the fighter's game on the whole rather than technically correct boxing or kickboxing technique.

I've never been particularly impressed with anything Chael did on the feet, apart from the first Anderson fight of course, but I just don't think it's justified to call him a bad striker. He's certainly nowhere close to Shinya Aoki-like levels of ineptitude. As far as the spinning back fist and fighter IQ - it was the slip that led to his downfall, not the backfist. If Silva had countered the backfist and left Chael laying I'd completely agree with you, but he didn't. Spinning back fists don't land as often as other strikes, but it's not like the amount of times a guy slips throwing one is massive in comparison to other strikes.



MRBRESK said:


> Eh Chael got outmuscled by Babalu at LHW back in the day.


That is true, however he also beat Sobral by UD in their first meeting. If I recall Chael also was quite young and weighed something like 196 pounds or similiar in that fight, he's a great deal more thickly muscled nowadays. However, I do expect Forrest to look absolutely enormous by comparison on fight night.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

HitOrGetHit said:


> They are different fighters and Rashad is a better, more complete fighter than Chael is. IMO! (Add that last part before the Sonnen lovers come out and get me)


You're lucky, fella


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

PanKrato said:


> You realize Chael is bigger than Rashad Evans right?


Rashad didn't get pwned by Jeremy Horn, Babalul, Trevor Prangley, and Terry Martin


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

RWCNT said:


> That is true, however he also beat Sobral by UD in their first meeting. If I recall Chael also was quite young and weighed something like 196 pounds or similiar in that fight, he's a great deal more thickly muscled nowadays. However, I do expect Forrest to look absolutely enormous by comparison on fight night.


Haha.. I think you are mistaking Babalu with Paulo Filho. 

And yeah Chael was 201lbs against Babalu.


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## StandThemUp (May 30, 2008)

Ah Crap!

I was really hoping to never see Forrest fighting again. Please don't tell me this is a main event.
It's on the prelims card, right?

I couldn't care less about seeing Forrest fight anymore, nor could I care less if Chael wins.

Great Job UFC. Way to point on yet another ho hum fight.


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## RWCNT (Dec 16, 2010)

MRBRESK said:


> Haha.. I think you are mistaking Babalu with Paulo Filho.


Not even. Complete false memory syndrome. For some reason I thought I'd seen a UD win against Babalu on Sonnen's record in a 2 round fight. I was sure I'd watched the fight as well, so it looks like I got Babalu confused with....Homer Moore? I need some sleep


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I actually just re-watched the first Forest vs Shogun match. You know I completely remembered a different fight. I thought Forest instigated the ground game. It was quite the opposite. For some reason Shogun kept trying to take him down then he expended a ton of energy with limited results except with a nice cut on Griffin's forehead. 

That made me realize two things. A motivated Griffin is actually pretty good and a injured Shogun with poor cardio is less than stellar.

Chael hasn't fought in LHW in years. His biggest wins are...I can't even remember. Griffin has beaten Rampage, Shogun, Tito, Bonnar, Franklin, and a few others. 

It's kind of a disgrace really for Griffin to be an underdog here. 

Strangely even I initially picked Chael til I really looked closely into this fight. Part of me wants Griffin to win so he fades into obscurity, but the other part actually wants me to see the MOUTH from Oregon to advance to JBJ. Now that would be a treat!


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> You're lucky, fella


Lol not that it wouldn't be a fun debate, but it would wreck the thread.


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## kney (Jan 16, 2012)

I'm picking Chael for the win though


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

RWCNT said:


> Fair points that he does spend the vast bulk of his fight time on the mat, but I've seen him trade in nearly every fight he's been in and I've never seen him brutally tooled. (Recent loss aside, that knee to the body against the cage took his soul before Anderson then proceeded to rip what was left to shreds) Thats about as much proof as I need to decide I think his stand up skills are at least average, definitely not poor.
> 
> I'll take that you think his striking looks goofy and awkward but I think this about a lot of MMA fighters to be honest. Wanderlei Silva's striking technique is for the most part very incorrect technically speaking (wild swings and arm punches), Shane Carwin and Dan Henderson's boxing isn't the easiest on the eyes either, Fedor was as flat-footed as they come and overcommited to a lot of his power strikes. But I've always thought of MMA striking as boiling down to effectiveness as part of the fighter's game on the whole rather than technically correct boxing or kickboxing technique.
> 
> ...


Yes indeed, I see what you mean. There are worse strikers out there for sure. 

It will be interesting to see what happens when a decent striker stops Chaels takedowns & forces him to stand.
I mean with Silva there really was no doubt in my mind that he would have tooled Sonnen sooner or later, had he been able to continue to stop the takedown.

I wonder what happens with a guy like Forrest, who is well I dunno good at striking? atleast when he's awake fighting, not bored zombie, run away and cry Forrest.

Anyway I see your points & pretty much agree. He's not a disaster standing, IMO he's mediocre from what we have seen, and it's pretty hard to know since it ends up on the floor pretty fast most of the times.

Oh BTW I doubt Forrest will stop the takedown anyway so, I'm predicting 3 rounds of smothering from Sonnen.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

RWCNT said:


> I've never been particularly impressed with anything Chael did on the feet, apart from the first Anderson fight of course, but I just don't think it's justified to call him a bad striker. He's certainly nowhere close to Shinya Aoki-like levels of ineptitude. *As far as the spinning back fist and fighter IQ - it was the slip that led to his downfall, not the backfist. If Silva had countered the backfist and left Chael laying I'd completely agree with you, but he didn't. Spinning back fists don't land as often as other strikes, but it's not like the amount of times a guy slips throwing one is massive in comparison to other strikes.*



Good posts.

But I don't agree with you here and I don't understand how people say this. 

The spinning backfist didn't lead him to lose. The slip did??? Well didn't the sloppy, off-balance, spinning backfist MAKE him slip??? I mean how many spinning anything has Chael attempted in his whole career? I don't think a wrestler, who doesn't have the most agility when it comes to moving and throwing strikes should be attempting spinning backfists against the greatest striker in MMA. I would think that should be pretty obvious.

He slipped and lost because he attempted to throw a WILD, OFF BALANCE, SPINNING DERBY and swung so wild and incorrect that he landed on his face. He didn't slip because it was wet, or because there was a banana peel. He slipped because he has poor technique and most of all he got DESPERATE. If he wasn't desperate he wouldn't of thrown a spinning anything in a million years.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Good posts.
> 
> But I don't agree with you here and I don't understand how people say this.
> 
> ...


It wasn't the slip or the actual punch that caused his loss. It was hos horrible fight iq that instead of laying flat like Okami and hoping to fend off Anderson with upkicks he sat on his ass and butt scooted to the fence. If you watch the fight Anderson was backing off to let him stand up expecting Shale to lay to his back. He only attacked when Shale butt scooted to the fence.

Sent from my Desire HD using VerticalSports.Com App


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## RWCNT (Dec 16, 2010)

I think he slipped because he slipped, and because fighters slip sometimes. Anderson slipped in their first fight and he wasn't even in the process of throwing anything, just moving around.

And wow, there you go again lazily throwing out this "desperate" theory of yours with absolutely nothing behind it. Also, capitals don't add any more weight to your speculation.

Anyway, yeah, it would be pretty interesting if Forrest showed some good TDD and this one stayed on the feet for a while. Forrest's reach advantage isn't that significant with his hands and I'd imagine if he throws a leg then Chael will probably be grabbing it and driving him straight to the floor.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

El Bresko said:


> Haha.. I think you are mistaking Babalu with Paulo Filho.
> 
> And yeah Chael was 201lbs against Babalu.





RWCNT said:


> Not even. Complete false memory syndrome. For some reason I thought I'd seen a UD win against Babalu on Sonnen's record in a 2 round fight. I was sure I'd watched the fight as well, so it looks like I got Babalu confused with....Homer Moore? I need some sleep


No I think you had it right, I remember Sonnen winning there first fight - Babalu thought he was robbed of the decision. Its not listed on sherdog, but its on some other sites. 

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=stats.fightCard&eid=6e089ea7-7a38-45a7-8ccc-b5d9ca1cbb69


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Joabbuac said:


> No I think you had it right, I remember Sonnen winning there first fight - Babalu thought he was robbed of the decision. Its not listed on sherdog, but its on some other sites.
> 
> http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=stats.fightCard&eid=6e089ea7-7a38-45a7-8ccc-b5d9ca1cbb69


Had a look at Shannon Ritch,Rob Emerson and Leben and they don't have their respective fights from that card on their record either.

For some reason this event must not be considered legitimate.


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