# Top Fighters W/ Biggest holes in game



## Yojimbo (Oct 25, 2009)

1. Shields: Striking
2. Carwin: stamina
3. R. Nelson: Beer Belly (sometimes an asset)
4.Thales Leites : Balls
5.Gegard Mousasi: TDD


----------



## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

paul daley/end thread

lol/jk but his wrestling is terrible and if you want to get to the top of ww in the ufc, you better have excellent tdd or crazy subs off your back.


----------



## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

A.Silva - TDD
Shields - Sub Defense
Sherk - Arm length (hard to be a striker with the shortest arms in the UFC)
Carwin - Gas tank and/or patience
Fitch - Finishing (from a huge Fitch fan)


----------



## Yojimbo (Oct 25, 2009)

Sherk, Arm length... That's funny. 
Do you know what his reach is? He's so cute (little Muscle Shark).


----------



## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

Yojimbo said:


> Sherk, Arm length... That's funny.
> Do you know what his reach is? He's so cute (little Muscle Shark).


I'm 5"9 and I think last time I was measured had the same reach as him, definitely have to check it though because my arms are stubby but I don't think they are as bad as his. :confused02:


----------



## IllegalLegKick (Apr 13, 2010)

Forrest - KO power


----------



## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

The Sherk arm length one was good and I can't agree more. One of the hardest training fighters in MMA, but he's got the reach of a T-rex.


----------



## perfection1st (Oct 30, 2009)

I'm very suprised no one has mentioned Sonnen's BJJ. I'm not sure but I think he's lost 90% of his fights by armbar submision. If he had that down we would be asking if Silva could get his belt back...:thumb02:


----------



## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

cdtcpl said:


> A.Silva - TDD
> Fitch - Finishing (from a huge Fitch fan)


A. Silva TDD is very good, there is no shame in not defending Chael Sonnen's TD's.

Finishing fights is not really a hole in a game, as long as he wins.


----------



## dav35 (Sep 30, 2009)

Lesnar - standup


----------



## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Frankie Edgar-Shit talking


----------



## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Lesnar - Heart
Chuck - Chin
Rampage - being one dimensional
Sonnen - learn basic BJJ and quit talking so much shit
GSP - stop humping people for so long it bores the fans


----------



## dav35 (Sep 30, 2009)

vilify said:


> Lesnar - Heart
> Chuck - Chin
> Rampage - being one dimensional
> Sonnen - learn basic BJJ and quit talking so much shit
> GSP - stop humping people for so long it bores the fans


how exactly does lesnar lack heart? :confused02:


----------



## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Yeah, how exactly does coming back from getting battered in the 1st Round against a beast like Shane Carwin to win by submission in the 2nd show lack of heart?


----------



## Yojimbo (Oct 25, 2009)

GSP mental toughness. I think George is a little weak between the ears!


----------



## Yojimbo (Oct 25, 2009)

Clay Guida's Hair.


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Shogun - Injuries 
Couture and Forrest - Punching power
Sonnen - Sub defense
Fitch - Ability to finish
GSP - Ability to finish 
Franklin - Ability to beat left handed Brazilians
Rampage - Any type of diverse striking or diverse anything really
Big Nog - Super slow boxing
Mir - gameplanning
CroCop - Fire under his ass
Pat Berry - Any type of ground game
BJ Penn - Mental focus
Kendall Grove - A non stupid nickname


----------



## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Diego -- repetitive and maybe somewhat predictable.
BJ Penn -- counters too much. Needs to take the initiative, and make the first move sometimes to change up his game.
Mir -- no wrestling to go to the ground and work his bjj.
Leben -- limited striking defense / non-technical.
Liddell -- should probably be working his wrestling & gnp if his chin is gone.
Rampage -- relies too much on punching power. He either KO's someone or loses on points if he can't connect. He needs a 3rd option.
Bisping & Forrest -- both don't commit to their strikes.


----------



## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Shogun - Injuries
> Couture and Forrest - Punching power
> Sonnen - Sub defense
> *Fitch - Ability to finish*
> ...


But the difference between these two is at least GSP is trying to finish the fight. It's not his fault Dan Hardy is also Gumby.


----------



## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

Mir - Gameplans
Maia - Standup (though i believe he's working hard on it)
Nelson - Speed
Bisping - Aggression
Alves - Weight cutting
Rumble Johnson - Weight cutting

And as a group - British fighters and their wrestling capabilities. We suffer from a huge disadvantage here because we dont learn wrestling at all throughout school/college. And there are very very few wrestling schools to train at in the UK.


----------



## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

A. Silva: TTD 
sonnen: Sub defense
sherk: Reach 
sheilds: striking 
Machida: Leg kicks 
BJ penn: work ethic
Kos: striking 
i would not say carwin has a bad gas tank yet any HW fighter that threw that may punches in that amount of time would be gassed. I would say he is impatient and doest pack his punches like he should.


----------



## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

cdtcpl said:


> A.Silva - TDD
> Shields - Sub Defense
> Sherk - Arm length (hard to be a striker with the shortest arms in the UFC)
> Carwin - Gas tank and/or patience
> Fitch - Finishing (from a huge Fitch fan)


Silva has pretty good TDD actually. Sonnen takes everyone down. And also he was probably hurt.

Shields has bad sub defence? how do you figure that...hes never ben subbed and is actually a submission specialist :S did you mean Sonnen?


----------



## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

mmaswe82 said:


> Silva has pretty good TDD actually. Sonnen takes everyone down. And also he was probably hurt.
> 
> Shields has bad sub defence? how do you figure that...hes never ben subbed and is actually a submission specialist :S did you mean Sonnen?


I did mean Sonnen, you are 100% correct. Not sure how I screwed that one up.

Silva actually does have pretty bad TDD. Blame it on his unwillingness to change his stand up stance or style, but he leaves himself open. I'm not just saying because of the Sonnen fight, I have said it about him for a while. Granted this is the third time in the UFC he has proven why he doesn't mind the ground as he won by sub again. I think he just doesn't care. To get him down you have to come within his striking range, and if you get him to the ground his lanky limbs make him just as dangerous standing up.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Rampage... checking kicks and obvious wrestling deficiencys and he trained wrestling so that is kinda weird.


----------



## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

cdtcpl said:


> I did mean Sonnen, you are 100% correct. Not sure how I screwed that one up.
> 
> Silva actually does have pretty bad TDD. Blame it on his unwillingness to change his stand up stance or style, but he leaves himself open. I'm not just saying because of the Sonnen fight, I have said it about him for a while. Granted this is the third time in the UFC he has proven why he doesn't mind the ground as he won by sub again. I think he just doesn't care. To get him down you have to come within his striking range, and if you get him to the ground his lanky limbs make him just as dangerous standing up.


I honestly think you're right on this... I just don't think he cares if you take him down. He seems to be comfortable in either position.


----------



## elitemmagoer (May 24, 2008)

JDS-Bjj
Rampage-TDD, Willingness to use his takedowns (Which are actually good)
Rashad-CHIN
Lesnar- Any form of striking whatsoever.


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

elitemmagoer said:


> JDS-Bjj
> Rampage-TDD, Willingness to use his takedowns (Which are actually good)
> Rashad-CHIN
> Lesnar- Any form of striking whatsoever.


JDS hasn't really been tested BJJ wise in the UFC, not enough info to speak on that.

Rashad has only been KO'd once, kinda hard to say he has a weak chin.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

dav35 said:


> Lesnar - standup


How do you say that about a guy who has dropped 80% of his opponents with punches? Lesnar's stand up may not be pretty but its has been effective against almost everyone he has fought.


----------



## The Amarok (May 4, 2010)

Toxic said:


> How do you say that about a guy who has dropped 80% of his opponents with punches? Lesnar's stand up may not be pretty but its has been effective against almost everyone he has fought.


but then again he dropped Mir, Coture and Herring and those guys arent known for their stand up if anything their striking is C+ class at best.


----------



## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

dav35 said:


> Lesnar - standup


Ditto. He wins with his size, strength and top level wrestling. No Jiu Jistu, and horrible stand up.


----------



## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Now, you can do this two ways.

Who's the best fighter with a big hole in his game?

Brock Lesnar's a top fighter in the division and his standup is pretty abysmal. That's the easy call. I mean, watching When I watch Brock Lesnar box, I wonder who put four-ounce gloves on an 800 pound gorilla and put double sided tape on the bottoms of his feet.

Of good fighters, who's the one with the biggest hole in his game?

I love me some Anthony Johnson, but that man's jiu-jitsu is facepalm worthy. It makes me sad.


----------



## jesterhead (May 5, 2010)

Josh Koscheck: Inability to instigate an exciting fight.


----------



## elitemmagoer (May 24, 2008)

Terror Kovenant said:


> JDS hasn't really been tested BJJ wise in the UFC, not enough info to speak on that.
> 
> Rashad has only been KO'd once, kinda hard to say he has a weak chin.


Rashad has been shown to have a terrible chin. He is very easily rocked. His fights with silva, and Rampage he was hit with one solid shot, and took a full round to recover. and the only reason Silva didnt finish him was because he chose to taunt him. Once he gets rocked, he takes far to long to recover.


----------



## perfection1st (Oct 30, 2009)

:thumb02::thumb02:


jesterhead said:


> Josh Koscheck: Inability to instigate an exciting fight.


:thumb02::thumb02:lllllllllllooooooooooolllllllll
Can't stand that D-Bag!!


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

elitemmagoer said:


> Rashad has been shown to have a terrible chin. He is very easily rocked. His fights with silva, and Rampage he was hit with one solid shot, and took a full round to recover. and the only reason Silva didnt finish him was because he chose to taunt him. Once he gets rocked, he takes far to long to recover.


Nah, Thiago had a bad back and ran out of gas. He didn't have anything left before that, that's why he kept taunting to try to get Rashad to come to him. Rashad was stupid and did but once he didn't get KO'd, Thiago couldn't do shit but hope Rashad came to him again.


----------



## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

cdtcpl said:


> I did mean Sonnen, you are 100% correct. Not sure how I screwed that one up.
> 
> Silva actually does have pretty bad TDD. Blame it on his unwillingness to change his stand up stance or style, but he leaves himself open. I'm not just saying because of the Sonnen fight, I have said it about him for a while. Granted this is the third time in the UFC he has proven why he doesn't mind the ground as he won by sub again. I think he just doesn't care. To get him down you have to come within his striking range, and if you get him to the ground his lanky limbs make him just as dangerous standing up.


hmmm well you might have a point, i was thinking that he hasn't been taken down many times. But that could be because he hasn't faced alot of wrestlers. Hendo took him down as well so i guess his TDD is kinda mediocre.
Or like you said he just doesnt care if he gets taken down or not since he's been winning anyway.


----------



## dav35 (Sep 30, 2009)

Toxic said:


> How do you say that about a guy who has dropped 80% of his opponents with punches? Lesnar's stand up may not be pretty but its has been effective against almost everyone he has fought.


I don't think he's comfortable exchanging, and he panics during exchanges. He's not awful, but that's a hole in his game. 

We are talking about fighters with the biggest holes.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Brock Lesnar has to improve his striking, and i'm pretty sure that after 116 he is going to do it. He just does not seem comfortable during exchanges. 

Mousasi's loss to King Mo really made everybody think about his TDD defense, since he was talked of being the future of the division, i look at him as a top fighter with a big hole.


----------



## JiPi (Oct 3, 2009)

James Toney - Martial Arts not named Boxing


----------



## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

vilify said:


> Lesnar - Heart
> Chuck - Chin
> Rampage - being one dimensional
> Sonnen - learn basic BJJ and quit talking so much shit
> GSP - stop humping people for so long it bores the fans





dav35 said:


> how exactly does lesnar lack heart? :confused02:


Do I still need to explain


----------

