# boxing and ufc



## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

now this thread i think is half boxing and half mma. if the mods and super mods feel like it belongs more to boxing, please move it there, i am not sure how to move it to the boxing forum

in mma obviously ufc is the leader and the promoter. in boxing there is no single promotions, and the titles are shared by different orgs (theres about twice or thrice as much weightclasses, and for every weightclass theres about 5 different champions) but this is what i think they should do:

unify some of the weightclasses: Heavyweight, Cruiserweight+lightheavyweight, middleweight+super middleweight, superwelterweight+welterweight, super lightweight+lightweight, superfeatheweight+featherweight, superbantamweight+bantamweight, superflyweight+flyweight

then unify the different belts
they should set up a tournament and have inaugural champions, and have the tournament winner fight the champion.

Heavyweight: the Klitschko will stay champs for now, and should unify the belts with David Haye
*Cruiserweight/Lightheavyweight*- the poles control this division. since Adamek's move to heavyweight, Kryz Wlodar. should be the next champ, all others tournament
*Middleweight/supermiddleweight*- the winner of the super6 tournament (probably Andre Ward) should be declared the champion, and the Germans should have their own tournament to find a challenger(Stieglitz, Sartison, Sturm, Sylvester, Zbik, Martinez from argentina)
*welterweight*-they should make a supersix tournament for p4p greats (Floyd Mayweather, Manny Pacquiao, Shane Moseley, Paul Willians, Andre Berto, Miguel Cotto) it would sell huge
*lightweight/super lightweight*: Juan Manuel Marques as champ
*featherweight/superfeatherweight*:the champion should either be Chris John, Gamboa, or Juan Manuel Lopez.
*all lower weightclasses*: the Thai fighters should be champs in all weights (Poonsawat of bantamweight and Pongsaklek of flyweight and Oleydong of strawweight) all others should put in a tournament

now imagine those as champions: Wladimir Klitschko,Kryz. Wlodar., Andre Ward, Floyd Mayweather, Juan Manuel Marquez, Juan Manuel Lopez and the thai champions would all be fighting under one org. 

now why wont a promotion, similar to zuffa, pick up the fighter contracts, have them all fight on cards couple of times per year, unify all the belts and do shows all over the world like the ufc in USA, Russia, Mexico, japan, Germany, Poland, Puerto Rico, the Phillipines, Thailand, Canada and Panama?? they would have top 10 rankings, have more viewers, make loads of money, have the fights people want to see etc.


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## gosuu (Sep 23, 2007)

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081104050507AAGhdU0 I'm not sure how accurate it is but it sounds like it could be true. I'm not really interested in it enough to further investigate it, sorry lol. But yeah, I guess that's how the multiple organizations ermerged. As for weight classes I'm pretty sure the reason so many emerged was because boxing became really popular and it could fill all of the weight classes. To be honest though I don't think even getting rid of some weight classes would be enough for boxing at this point. I consider myself to be pretty "into" the fight game and I haven't heard of half the guys on your list. Obviously I'm into MMA and a little into boxing, I'm into the sport of boxing (participating in it), just I don't watch any of it unless it's a huge fight. And if I haven't heard of these guys, I really doubt that a more casual person has. The mindset of everyone has already been in the process of changing into an MMA mindset for too long now, I think. 

And just to add. The UFC is the largest and it's titles do hold the most weight but I'd say DREAM titles hold a good amount of weight too. You'll probably always have multiple orgs. I get what you're saying though and I agree, UFC title means more. Just wanted to add that there are other titles that are close.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I don't think that kind've crossover is going to take place after Toney got destroyed by Randy!:thumb02:


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

gosuu said:


> http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081104050507AAGhdU0 I'm not sure how accurate it is but it sounds like it could be true. I'm not really interested in it enough to further investigate it, sorry lol. But yeah, I guess that's how the multiple organizations ermerged. As for weight classes I'm pretty sure the reason so many emerged was because boxing became really popular and it could fill all of the weight classes. To be honest though I don't think even getting rid of some weight classes would be enough for boxing at this point. I consider myself to be pretty "into" the fight game and I haven't heard of half the guys on your list. Obviously I'm into MMA and a little into boxing, I'm into the sport of boxing (participating in it), just I don't watch any of it unless it's a huge fight. And if I haven't heard of these guys, I really doubt that a more casual person has. The mindset of everyone has already been in the process of changing into an MMA mindset for too long now, I think.
> 
> And just to add. The UFC is the largest and it's titles do hold the most weight but I'd say DREAM titles hold a good amount of weight too. You'll probably always have multiple orgs. I get what you're saying though and I agree, UFC title means more. Just wanted to add that there are other titles that are close.


im in the same boat as you. im much more into mma then boxing, and know only few of the names. i know the klitschkos control the heavyweight division and wont fight each other (machida-anderson silva, koscheck-fitch etc situations). 

David Haye was the best cruiserweight/lightheavyweight and went up a weightclass to challenge them (think shogun challenging lesnar). then at lightheavyweight I guess the most succesful guy is Jean Pascal the canadian, i havent really watched the other guys. at supermiddleweight/middleweight i watched some of the super6 and it looks like andre ward is by far the best in the weightclass. at welterweight you have floyd mayweather who you probably heard from alot, along with manny pacquiao, paul williams (stefan struve of welterweights), andre berto and miguel cotto who are all huge names. at lightweight you have manuel marques who was the last guy floyd mayweather fought. and then you have the tiny guys but a guy from thailand having 75 wins or something on the record


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah the only two fighters I know in boxing are Floyd and Pac Man!:thumb02:


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

all they need is a single big promotion that will make the champions fight each other and unify the belts. here are the current promotions:

Golden Boy Promotions (Los Angeles)- *Oscar De La Hoya*, *David Haye*, *Bernard Hopkins*, Winky Wright, Chris John, Amir khan, *Juan Manuel Marques*, *Floyd Mayweather Jr*, Shane Moseley, *Manny Pacquiao*, Ricky Hatton, Marcos Maidana, *Andrei Arlovski*

Top Rank/Bob Arum (Las Vegas): *Samuel Peter*, Gamboa, Miguel Cotto, David Diaz, Nonito Donaire, Yuri Foreman, *Juan Manuel Lopez*, Fernando Montiel, Kelly Pavlik, *Manny Pacquiao* 

Goosen Tutor(California): *James Toney*, Chris Arreola, *Andre Ward*, Paul Williams

Don King productions : *Valuev*, *Briggs*, Cunningham, *Mayorga*, Devon Alexander, Nate Campbell

Gary Shaw Productions: Vernon Forrest, *Vic Darchinyan*, *Chad Dawson*, Rafael Marques, Timothy Bradley, Dirrell,Sergiy Dzindziruk, *Kimbo Slice *

Universum (Hamburg, Germany):*Klitschkos*, Chagaev, Dimitrenko, Felix Sturm, Brahmer, Sartison, Zbik,

what would happen if Golden Boy Promotions and Top Rank unite to make one huge boxing promotion? they would have every great boxer except the Russians, Germans, Andre Ward, Paul Williams and James Toney.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Oscar De La Hoya is retired, Don King is nowhere near trustable now, and Shaw is an MMA wanaby who inherited it from his father!:thumbsdown:


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

there are some upcoming fights that could unify the belts

*HW*

David Haye vs a Klitschko- David Haye is planning on fighting a klitschko, probably Wladimir, in an attempt to unify the belts. though he belongs at cruiserweight with the likes of Adamek, he believes he can make a bigger name at heavyweight.

*Cruiserweight*

a rematch between Steve Cunningham and Adamek could be the biggest fight at the weight class as they both beat all the other champions.

*Lightheavyweight*

Jean Pascal vs Carl Froch- a rematch that Pascal might be interested in after Carl Froch finishes the super six tournament

Jean Pascal vs Bernard Hopkins- could be important in legitimizing Pascal in boxing, after Pascal already beat Dawson, Piaconu (twice)

*Supermiddleweight*

the Super Six tournament is a tournament between 6 legends of the division.

*Middleweight*

Paul Williams vs Floyd Mayweather Jr- since Floyd wants to go up and win a title at middleweight, this would be a great matchup against the tall paul williams.

Felix Sturm vs Manny Pacquiao- if Pacquiao does like Mayweather and goes up in weght, this is his most likely matchup

*Superwelterweight*

Floyd Mayweather vs Manny Pacquiao- this is the biggest boxing match potentially in the world right now. their last fight was at superwelterweight, though they could fight at any weight all the way to lightweight and maybe below

Manny Pacquiao vs Antonio Margarito- Pacquiao is more of a featherweight/lightweight fighter that likes to go up and fight at the welterweight divisions. Margarito has a win over Cotto. Paquiao is the clear favorite here

Cotto vs Berto- Andre Berto expressed interest in moving up to superwelterweight to challenge Miguel Cotto. Cotto has wins over Zab Judah and Shane Moseley. Cotto should be the clear favorite.

*Superlightweight*

the winner of Devon Alexander vs Timothy Bradley and of Amir Khan vs Marcos Maidana will probably face each other, giving 3 high caliber figts in the division to crown the unified champion.

Juan Manuel Marques vs winner of above championships- since Marques will have no problem to unify the lightweight championship, he will go up in weight to fight the champion @ superlightweight. Marques is a natural featherweight who likes to fight in the lightweight divisions.

*Featherweight *

Juan Manuel Lopez vs Rafael Marques- Manuel Lopez is one of the greats p4p 

Celestino Caballero vs Gamboa- Celestino plans to go up a weightclass to challenge the undefeated Gamboa

*Superflyweight*

Fernando Montiel vs Nonito Donaire/Vic Darchinyan- Montiel who went up and won the bantamweight title, is interested in going back down and challenging one of those two greats

edit: it seems the batntamweight, superfeatherweight and welterweight division is emptying out in terms of interest


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

UFC86 said:


> there are some upcoming fights that could unify the belts
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wasn't he accused of packing his gloves or something? what happened with that?


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

Mirage445 said:


> Wasn't he accused of packing his gloves or something? what happened with that?


yeah. margarito is more or less a cheater i gotta agree. similar to oiling yourself in mma.

margarito might put stones/glass in his wraps when he fights pacquiao


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

UFC86 said:


> yeah. margarito is more or less a cheater i gotta agree. similar to oiling yourself in mma.
> 
> margarito might put stones/glass in his wraps when he fights pacquiao


He'd still get the shit kicked out of him, lol.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Don't they examine the gloves in boxing?


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Don't they examine the gloves in boxing?


dont they check for greasing in mma?

ps margarito and his coach were banned for a year after the incident


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

No one was found guilty of that and it was called an accident!:thumbsup:


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

*scheduled bouts:*

Super Six bouts

Jean Pascal vs Bernard Hopkins Dec 11

Pacquiao vs Margarito promoter Bob Arum

Devon Alexander vs Timothy Bradley Jan 29

Amir Khan vs Marcos Maidana golden boy promotions

Juan Manuel Lopez vs Rafael Marques in autumn

Montiel vs Donaire in Nov, Bob Arum promoter

Juan Manuel Marques vs Katsidis

*challenges:*

Haye vs a Klitschko

Pacquiao vs Mayweather

Cotto vs Berto

Caballero vs Gamboa


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

megafights remaining:

David Haye vs the Klitschkos

Jean Pascal vs Carl Forch

Floyd Mayweather vs Manny Pacquiao

Juan Manuel Marquez vs light-welterweight champion

Chris John vs Juan Manuel Lopez

Montiel vs Donaire

Kokietgym vs Narvaez


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## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

UFC86 said:


> megafights remaining:
> 
> David Haye vs the Klitschkos
> 
> ...


Pascal and Froch are in diff divisions. Ward V winner of Froch\Johnson will be much bigger. With the winner (Ward) fighting Lucian Bute to be the undisputed super-middle Champion.

Nobody near lightweight comes close to Juan Manuel Marquez.

Chris John won't fight a live body, so I guess the winner of Lopez V Gamboa when it happens will be the undisputed feather champ.

Donaire has a lot of big names in the lower weights to fight, but he won't take any of them on. He is the best little man by a long way though.

Paul Williams being crushed confirms Martinez as the undisputed middleweight champion.

Pacquaio V Mayweather has to happen to confirm the undisputed welter and P4P champion, but Berto also needs to be taken out (the only real young blood left there, but both would handle him rather easily).

Finally, the only talent left in boxing other than that mentioned above is then left to the Super lights (Jr welters), where the 4 are fighting eachother and hopefully the winners can fight out of the Kahn/Madaina and Bradley/Alexander matchups to confirm the undisputed super light champion..

Boxing has to do 2 things, collapse the weight divisions, no more Jr or Super divisions. But most importantly, have 1 champion per division again.


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

Fine Wine said:


> Pascal and Froch are in diff divisions. Ward V winner of Froch\Johnson will be much bigger. With the winner (Ward) fighting Lucian Bute to be the undisputed super-middle Champion.
> 
> Nobody near lightweight comes close to Juan Manuel Marquez.
> 
> ...


well, fyi Froch beat Pascal before, and they were both thinking of a rematch. Froch may have no interest in going up though so it may not happen. i am aware that froch is still in the super six semi-final and has a huge fight with ward ahead.

you say nobody comes close to JMM, but katsidis knocked him down, its vulnerability right there. and pacquiao will beat him in the 3rd match i believe.

sad news to me about chris john. hes a damn talented indonesian hes like bruce lee.

the winner of junior welterweights probably fights JMM.


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## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

UFC86 said:


> well, fyi Froch beat Pascal before, and they were both thinking of a rematch. Froch may have no interest in going up though so it may not happen. i am aware that froch is still in the super six semi-final and has a huge fight with ward ahead.
> 
> you say nobody comes close to JMM, but katsidis knocked him down, its vulnerability right there. and pacquiao will beat him in the 3rd match i believe.
> 
> ...


Yeh, but if Pascal gets past BHOP, he still has a rematch with Dawson to do and also a fight with Cloud at LHW before even bothering wih Super middles.

JMM has been dropped numerous times before. But he was still far superior technically to Katsidis, as per Diaz before him. Though Pac is too big for JMM now, so doubt a 3rd fight will happen. Sounds like it's probably Pac V Mosley next (sadly, as Mosley is washed up now).

Agree, winner of Jr Welters should fight JMM, though doubt the later has too many fights left in his old legs.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

For a second, I thought this thread was going to demand some sort of nuance. It's different than most boxing/MMA threads.

That said, the answer is fairly straightforward.



UFC86 said:


> now why wont a promotion, similar to zuffa, pick up the fighter contracts, have them all fight on cards couple of times per year, unify all the belts and do shows all over the world like the ufc in USA, Russia, Mexico, japan, Germany, Poland, Puerto Rico, the Phillipines, Thailand, Canada and Panama?? they would have top 10 rankings, have more viewers, make loads of money, have the fights people want to see etc.


The logistics of navigating this kind of an organization would be absolutely impossible. Set aside the theories about how Floyd Mayweather (and others) don't actually want to fight the top competition and just think about the money.

The startup costs for signing the major boxers in any one weightclass would be in the low nine figures, at least. Floyd, Pacquiao, even relatively small names like Josh Clottey, get paid eight figure salaries for individuals fights. Putting together a substantial roster with guys like this would be basically impossible, and probably not sustainable unless you had an absolutely enormous bank of donors backing the company.

Thai boxers are cheaper, but they present another problem altogether. That problem is the prolific nature of Thai fighters. Many of them want to fight on a regular basis, which makes putting on major cards with them difficult, it makes building dynasties difficult (because it significantly shortens their career in terms of years and makes them more inclined to losses) and it makes signing them to exclusive contracts very difficult.

Boxers have their own problems with contract exclusivity, but under your hypothetical, I think that problem (finding quality opponents and going to other promoters when they can) would largely be resolved.

MMA fighters have all of these problems.

If there was a person with a billion dollars starting budget and substantial relationships with the most respected coaches in boxing, I'd say it could be done. But I'm pretty sure that person doesn't exist (and there are a few reasons why I think that person can't exist, especially with regard to the second condition) so I think that this isn't really a possibility.


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

IronMan said:


> For a second, I thought this thread was going to demand some sort of nuance. It's different than most boxing/MMA threads.
> 
> That said, the answer is fairly straightforward.
> 
> ...


currently the top 2 boxing promotions are Top Rank ran by Bob Arum and Golden Boy Promotions ran by Oscar De La Hoya.almost all weight divisions split into these promotions. the problem is that these 2 promotions dont want to do business with one another. for example Pacquiao and Mayweather, Juan Manuel Marquez and Humberto Soto, Juan Manuel Lopez and Chris John, Donaire and Abner Mares are the most problematic case. if those 2 promotions were to unite, we would have a ufc type promotion, and other fighters in smaller promotions like don king or gary shaw would equate to strikeforce and bellator. this is what i think hurts boxing. if we would have one major promotion instead of 2, we would not have so many belts because that promotion would make sure they would unify it.

regarding the times boxers fight per year, its not correct. floyd mayweather claimed in an interview it takes half a year to build a fight. Andre Berto wanted to fight next year 3 times (Moseley, Cotto and Pacquiao). this could all be under one promotion, IF the 2 promotions would unite. if that would happen i will guarantee boxing WILL NOT die. look at how much money they generate. and regarding pay, mayweather and the like dont get paid by the promotion, they get paid from PPV buys, gate etc.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

good reads :thumbsup:


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

UFC86 said:


> currently the top 2 boxing promotions are Top Rank ran by Bob Arum and Golden Boy Promotions ran by Oscar De La Hoya.almost all weight divisions split into these promotions. *the problem is that these 2 promotions dont want to do business with one another*. for example Pacquiao and Mayweather, Juan Manuel Marquez and Humberto Soto, Juan Manuel Lopez and Chris John, Donaire and Abner Mares are the most problematic case. if those 2 promotions were to unite, we would have a ufc type promotion, and other fighters in smaller promotions like don king or gary shaw would equate to strikeforce and bellator. this is what i think hurts boxing. if we would have one major promotion instead of 2, we would not have so many belts because that promotion would make sure they would unify it.


I've bolded the only relevant part of this post.

Sure, if you could get De La Hoya and Bob Arum into the same room, you might make some progress. You'd have an easier time getting Dana White to take Scott Coker out for dinner and a movie.

Also, your comment isn't a response to anything I said.



> regarding the times boxers fight per year, its not correct. floyd mayweather claimed in an interview it takes half a year to build a fight. Andre Berto wanted to fight next year 3 times (Moseley, Cotto and Pacquiao). this could all be under one promotion,


Did you even read my post?

The comment about "number of fights per year" was strictly with regard to Thai fighters. I specifically denoted a different sort of issue with contract exclusivity (that is to say: they don't have problems with the number of fights per year) when talking about boxers.



> IF the 2 promotions would unite. if that would happen i will guarantee boxing WILL NOT die. look at how much money they generate. and regarding pay, mayweather and the like dont get paid by the promotion, they get paid from PPV buys, gate etc.


Yes, if your unlikely hypothetical happens, it will be good for boxing. I don't think boxing is going to die *as it is* though, so I don't think the survival of boxing really depends on some sort of union between Arum and De La Hoya.

You think that a promotion like this would operate in a way that would apportion the buy gate to essentially all of the fighters (as opposed to just headliners, as is current practice) and still make money? Seriously? They'd go out of business after two events.

Playing flat salaries (which many promotions do; Mayweather is more the exception than the rule) is unlikely because of the sheer amount of money it would require to get these guys to fight.

Playing proportions of the gate is impossible because it would deprive the company of the basic money it would need for operating costs. If you give Mayweather 15% and Pacquiao 15% and Marquez 15% and Berto 15% and so on, you're not going to have any money left for the promoter. These percentage purses are fine when they are only offered to the main event guys, but with names this big, offering them small portions of the gate and pay-per-view revenue is not going to get them into a contract. Getting these guys to settle for 3-5% is not a task that seems in the realm of possibilities.


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

IronMan said:


> I've bolded the only relevant part of this post.
> 
> Sure, if you could get De La Hoya and Bob Arum into the same room, you might make some progress. You'd have an easier time getting Dana White to take Scott Coker out for dinner and a movie.
> 
> ...


ok i missed the thai fighters part. i think having a Top Rank/Golden Boy united promotion will still allow certain boxers to compete as often as they like. look at josh koscheck in ufc. theres always injuries etc.

the undercard boxers can get paid something around ufc salary, and i believe they currently get paid less then the ufc.

you just named 4 fighters getting a proportion of the ppv floyd, manny, JMM (i assume) and Berto (though he is only a prospect at this point). you dont need to have them all in one card. how many p4p greats are there? theres maybe 2-3 great boxers in each weight class. you could have a few of them getting a ppv cut, while filling the rest of the card with top 10 fighters that would be payed significantly less. thats why i compared it to ufc, i think that model works.


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

also heres how i see the top 10 rankings

HW
1. Wladimir Klitschko 56-3 89%KO 
2. Vitali Klitschko 43-2 93%KO 
3. David Haye 24-1 92%KO 
4. Ruslan Chagaev, 26-1 65%KO 
5. Nikolay Valuev 50-2 68%KO
6. Tomasz Adamek 42-1 64%KO 
7. Eddie Chambers 35-2 51%KO 
8. Samuel Peter 34-4 78%KO 
9. Dennis Boytsov 28-0 81%KO 
10.Alexander Povetkin 22-0 75%KO 

Cruiserweight
1. Yoan Pablo Hernandez 24-1
2. Steve Cunningham 23-3
3. Krzysztof Wlodarczyk 44-2 
4. Marco Huck 30-1
5..Alexander Frenkel 23-0 78%KO

Light-Heavyweight 
1. Bernard Hopkins
2. Jean Pascal 26-2
3. Adrian Diaconu 27-2 
4. Chad Dawson 29-1
5. Jurgen Brahmer 36-2 
6. Tavoris Cloud 22-0 
Nathan Cleverly 23-0 
Zsolt Erdei 33-0 

Super-Middleweight 
1. Andre Ward 23-0 
2. Lucian Bute 29-0 
3. Mikkell Kessler 43-2 
4. Carl Froch 27-1
5. Arthur Abraham 31-2
6. Jermaine Taylor 28-4
7. Kelly Pavlik, 36-2
8. Glen Johnson

Middleweight
1. Sergio Martinez 45-2 
2. Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. 43-0
3. Paul Williams 
4. Felix Sturm 35-2
5. Sebastian Sylvester 33-3
6. Sebastian Zbik 30-1 
7. Khoren Gevor 31-5
8. Hassan Njikam 26-0 
Contenders: Gennady Golovkin 21-0 
Dmitry Pirog 19-0

Light-Middleweight 
1 Manny Pacquiao 53-3
2. Miguel Angel Cotto 35-2
3. Saul Alvarez 36-0 
4. Jose Miguel Cotto 31-2
5. Antonio Margarito 38-7
6. Kermit Cintron 32-3 
7. Sergiy Dzinziruk 37-1
8. Pawel Wolak 28-1
9. Yuri Foreman 28-2 
contenders: Vanes Martirosyan 30-0 
Austin Trout 24-0

Welterweight 
1. Floyd Mayweather Jr,42-0 
2. Shane Moseley 46-7 
3. Victor Ortiz 29-3
4. Andre Berto 27-1 
5. Mike Alvarado 31-0
contenders: Vyacheslav Senchenko 31-0
Selcuk Aydin 22-0 

Light-Welterweight
1. Timothy Bradley 28-0
2. Devon Alexander 21-1 
3. Amir Khan 24-1 
4. Marcos Maidana 29-2
5. Zab Judah 40-6 
6. Lucas Matthyse 25-1 92%KO 
7. Paulie Malignaggi 27-4 
8. Paul McCloskey 22-1
contenders: Ajose Olusegun 29-0

Lightweight 
1. Juan Manuel Marquez 51-5 
2. Humberto Soto 55-7
3. Brandon Rios 28-0 
4. Michael Katsidis 28-4
5. Miguel Acosta 
6. Urbano Antillon 28-3
7. Kevin Mitchell 32-1
8. John Murray 31-1

Super-Featherweight 
1. Jorge Solis 40-2
2. Adrien Broner 21-0
3. John Litzau 28-3
4. Cellestino Caballero 34-3 68%KO
5. Elroy Perez 22-1 
6. Mzonke Fana 30-4 
7. Takashi Uchiyama 17-0 81%KO
8. Juan Carlos Salgado 22-1

Featherweight 
1. Chris John 45-0-2 
2. Yuriorkis Gamboa 21-0 79%KO
3. Orlando Salido 34-11 (8 losses under 21yo) 
4. Juan Manuel Lopez 30-1 90%KO 
5.Jhonny Gonzalez 46-7 
6.Daniel Ponce De Leon 42-2 
7. Steve Luevano 37-2

Super-Bantamweight 
1. Toshiaki Nishioka 37-4 
2. Ryo Li Lee 17-1 
3. Akifumi Shimoda 22-2
4. Masaaki Serie 17-4 

Bantamweight 
1.Nonito Donaire 26-1 
2. Fernando Montiel 44-3 
3 Abner Mares 21-0 
4.Joseph Agbeko 28-2 
5 Yohnny Perez 20-1 
6. Vic Darchinyan 35-3 
7. Anselmo Moreno 30-1 

Super-Flyweight 
1. Duangpetch Kokietgym 52-1 
2. Juan Rosas 32-5 
3. Hugo Cazares 33-6

Flyweight 
1. Pongsaklek Wonjongham 77-3 
2. Koki Kameda 23-1 
3. Daiki Kameda 17-2 
4. Luis Concepcion 22-1 
5. Moruti Mthalane 27-2 
6. Edgar Sosa 40-6 

Light-Flyweight 
1. Giovanni Segura 25-1
2. Ivan Calderon 34-1 
3. Luis Lazarte 47-9 
4. Milan Melindo 24-0
4. Carlos Tamara 21-5 
5. Brian Viloria 27-3 
6. Ulises Solis 32-2

Minimumweight 
1. Kazuto Ioka 7-0
2. Oleydong Sithsamerchai 34-1 
3. Eagle Kyowa 20-2
4. Donnie Nietes 27-1 
5. Nkosinathi Joyi 21-0
6. Raul Garcia 29-1
contenders: Roman Gonzalez 28-0

edit: p4p 
Floyd Mayweather, Pacquiao, Donaire, Humberto Soto


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, but how would these guys fare in MMA?:confused02:


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Yeah, but how would these guys fare in MMA?:confused02:


well... probably like Randy Couture vs James Toney if they fought a great grappler.

the klitschko brothers did compete in kickboxing.
David Haye is a big fan of mma
manny pacquiao wants to debut in the future in mma
vic also expressed interest in mma
donaire is also a fan and would like to compete in the future

thats as far as i know.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I think if an athletic boxer actually were to take training in MMA seriously and prepare for some grappling and takedown defense they would fare alot better than Toney did. Pac definately can be one of those guys should he transition, which is pretty realistic unless he goes agaisnt Floyd. As for the Klitschko brothers, we know that kickboxing is actually a good base for MMA as Cro Cop has demonstrated!:thumbsup:


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> I think if an athletic boxer actually were to take training in MMA seriously and prepare for some grappling and takedown defense they would fare alot better than Toney did. Pac definately can be one of those guys should he transition, which is pretty realistic unless he goes agaisnt Floyd. As for the Klitschko brothers, we know that kickboxing is actually a good base for MMA as Cro Cop has demonstrated!:thumbsup:


most boxers are athletic, otherwise they wouldnt be in the top 10. Toney trained 6 months in grappling. i think that a boxer should stay in boxing, for the sake of not diminishing his boxing skills. hes good in boxing, let him keep being successful in boxing and keep getting payed well (referring to pacquiao). they would need to be like a new breed if they want to be successful in mma. they have to practise years and years in grappling to be good, in combination with boxing (like Rampage for example). Toney showed 6 months is just not enough.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

More like he didn't bother to use it at all. Six months of grappling and he should've been better than what he showed for it. There is this girl on my team who has had less then two months and she's already better than Toney was!:thumbsdown:


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## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

You know I like your threads UFC, given I have repped you a couple times, they bring up things a lot of people don't.

BUT, some of your things on your list are way out. 

Caballero is more a super-bantum, only reason he is stated as super-feather was because he missed weight his last fight. He is a feather, so you have him in the wrong division.

Glen Johnson is now a super-middle, let alone a contender at cruiser.

Kelly Pavlik who was schooled by BHOP and Martinez, ahead of Lucian Bute?

Adamek as #7 heavyweight, yet #9 P4P, an impossibility unless the other 6 heaves are in the top 8 P4P.

Personally, I think boxrec is about as good as it gets for close to legitimate top 10 rankings per division and P4P.


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

Fine Wine said:


> You know I like your threads UFC, given I have repped you a couple times, they bring up things a lot of people don't.
> 
> BUT, some of your things on your list are way out.
> 
> ...


thanks for your support Fine Wine!

interesting about Caballero. i know he left the super bantamweight division to pursuit Gamboa in featherweight, and now had his first fight (and loss to Litszau) at super-featherweight, but maybe i should put him down to featherweight.

im not sure why i put Johnson @ cruiser, hes really a light heavyweight who now dropped to super-middleweight, so i should remove him...

Lucian Bute has not accomplished enough in boxing to be ahead of a guy like Pavlik who lost to 2 of the greatest.

Adamek is a small heavyweight like David Haye, and climbing to the top 10 with giants like Valuev and Samuel Peter gotta account for some skill... the p4p list is not ranked even if it appears to be, its actually in no particular order just the way it was put.


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