# What did you think of Joseph Benadivez/Demitrious Johnson? POLL INCLUDED



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I was shocked some people seemed to be dissapointed in this fight cause I thought it was a FOTY contender and was incredibly entertained by what I thought was an exciting fight. That said what are others opinions?


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

It was neither particularly entertaining or exciting. Anybody claiming that was FOTY completely baffles me.


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## Rachmunas (May 15, 2009)

I loved this fight too. The speed, movements, scrambles, etc... Round 4 was awesome! What's up with the booing from a booer's perspective????


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## Alessia (Sep 1, 2011)

Thought it was pretty good, wasn't the greatest of fights though.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

What a coicidence anybody claiming it was anything but entertaining and exciting baffles me. I can't see your point of view considering that fight had fast back and forth technical exchanges, submission attempts, Benadivez had DM rocked at one point. It had it all really.


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## evzbc (Oct 11, 2006)

The 4th round was good, but overall for me, I just didn't really care.

People enjoy watching larger than life / freak athletes battle. And although these guys are fantastic athletes, you just don't seem to get the BONE-CRUSHING ACTION that you do with the bigger guys.

The 145 belt is OK, but really it's all the classes over that which are the most exciting for me.

But back to your original point... as someone who is a fan of the sport but not a super fan. I watched and enjoyed the fight but, probably won't remember it. I felt the booes were justified to the drunk adrenaline junkies (not that I condone boo'ing, but I get why they booed).


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Freaking awesome fight. This is coming from someone who is far less interested in seeing the really small guys fight. I cant help it, I always get excited to see the big boys fight. It probably has something to do with the fact that i'm a big guy and my wife has like 3 inches and 20 pounds on these guys, but I just do not get as excited to see the little guys go at it as I do the big guys.

That being said, this was an amazing fight. The technique, speed, and overall excitement that the fight produced was the second best on the card (the near submission of Jones being the most exciting moment in my opinion). 

The fourth round was just amazing. My wife, who actually doesn't follow much mma, commented "i bet these guys would be even more exciting on the ground". As soon as the fourth hit and the scrambles ensued I knew she was right. That round was off the hook. Great fight.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Except for anything approaching entertainment or excitement outside of round 4. It just wasn't that great a fight. It was two guys point fight for 4 rounds and one round with a rock and a bad sub attempt.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Indifferent, it was filler. I don't care even the slightest about that division and two small guys going wild doesn't entertain me as much as it seems to entertain some.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

FOTY? Yeah I could see that, I could've seen it going either way. Enjoyed it more than Jones/Belfort.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Why do people say FOTY? It wasn't even FOTN.

The only part of the fight that was really technical was the ground game. Benavidez' striking is not that good. He wings big shots that look more impressive because they are quick. The technique and timing is completely lacking. MM has quick, technical striking but no real timing or power. Both are missing 2 of the 4 required elements for effective striking. 

The ground game was a different story. The scrambles were well done but looked better because they were faster than what people are used to seeing. But that's really it. All they had on the ground were the scrambles. The one real submission attempt wasn't even close to being locked in.

I just don't see why anyone found this fight to be amazing.


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## usernamewoman (Sep 24, 2007)

phenomenal fight, edge of my seat, thank heaven for this weight class. alot better than the bigger guys


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## halifaxdonair (Aug 27, 2011)

Bland. i barely noticed it was on and focused on my drinking instead. the only thing i remember is when mighty mouse got rocked in the 4th.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

It was already so i picked "Indifferent" had its moments but when im watching a fight i think has no chance of a stoppage what so ever i switch off a little.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

It's sad that the little guys never get their dues. There was some serious technical moves going on in that fight that is very hard to see because they're moving so fast. I mean Joe swinging and Demitrous sidestepping instantly was a beauty, getting out of super tight guillotine was another, etc. 

They put on a show for everyone and got booed. That's wack. 
There wasn't any moment where they stalled. It was non-stop movement.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

It's insane that whatever forum I'm on the Flyweights are just "those little guys". Where's the respect?!!

That fight was awesome!


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

There was a super tight guillotine in there? I hope you're not referring to the one in the 4th round.


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

I was enjoying it, really seemed like the top level of the weight class going at it but Rogan was getting on my nerves making it seem less competitive than it actually was. But when he couldn't believe the crowd was booing and could only explain it by saying they only want to see bloody finishes, I couldn't disagree with him. Maybe the smaller weight classes' fighters' skills would be more appreciated earlier in the card when the crowd is a little less inebriated.


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## Rastaman (Feb 25, 2010)

It was alright but I hate going into a fight knowing with certainty that it will end in a decision. Good back and forth, but honestly it wasn't that great.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Fairly good fight, far from great though.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

deadmanshand said:


> There was a super tight guillotine in there? I hope you're not referring to the one in the 4th round.


Looked pretty tight to me. He was struggling there for a good minute, but couldn't complete it and that's it.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

I can't help it if I thought tonight's card sucked and I don't care if they thought it was a tight guillotine. That one's not an opinion thing. That was not a tight guillotine. Anyone with real grappling experience will tell you that. All the commentators in the world won't convince me of that.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

No reason for this fight or type of fighters to be on PPV. Nothing but filler.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

BOOM said:


> No reason for this fight or type of fighters to be on PPV. Nothing but filler.


Explain further please! I'm sure we'd all love to read your reason why.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I enjoyed it when it was on the ground. The exchanges on the floor were pretty exciting. On the feet, I disagree. It seemed like both guys were trying to "out-speed" eachother and simply ran and danced around the octagon.

Decent fight, I enjoyed it, but didn't think it was FOTY by any means.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

LizaG said:


> Explain further please! I'm sure we'd all love to read your reason why.


My cold beer was more interesting then this fight. If you're glad that you shelled out money for this fight that's your prerogative.

Nothing but filler on an already very weak card in my opinion.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

BOOM said:


> My cold beer was more interesting then this fight. If you're glad that you shelled out money for this fight that's your prerogative.
> 
> Nothing but filler on an already very weak card in my opinion.


Your quote was:



> No reason for this fight *or type of fighters *to be on PPV. Nothing but filler


meaning?


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

He doesn't actually have a meaning, LizaG. He's the forum equivalent of an std. Like syphilis of the keyboard or being UFC Owns.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

LizaG said:


> meaning?


It's filler as I originally stated, and people are paying for it. That's the joke.

Surely a company that is reaping huge profits from the masses is able to afford to put on better quality on their PPV's.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

BOOM said:


> It's filler as I originally stated, and people are paying for it. That's the joke.
> 
> Surely a company that is reaping huge profits from the masses is able to afford to put on better quality on their PPV's.


See? A comment with no meaning, merit, or thought behind it. Just a random jumble of words Boom hopes will actually mean something when they appear on your screen. Unfortunately the Google Troll to English translation function isn't the best.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> See? A comment with no meaning, merit, or thought behind it. Just a random jumble of words Boom hopes will actually mean something when they appear on your screen. Unfortunately the Google Troll to English translation function isn't the best.


Typical reply for someone that does'nt agree that the UFC is being run like the WWF.


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

Everyone is going to get all mad at me, but I couldn't watch it..... and I watched every other fight on the card.

They look like little boys.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

It's typical for those people to call you a moron in humorous form? That seems odd somehow.

Actually the UFC is being run like the old school boxing promotions right. Just with better marketing. It's how every combat sport in the history of the world has been run. Gladiators, boxers, pankration, judo, kickboxing... you name it and it's been run this way.

You use personality and accomplishments to appeal to the masses. Personality will always draw more than anything else. It's human nature. We find it easier to identify with someone we love or hate based off personality than it is for us to connect to physical accomplishments we have no experience in.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

I know I'm a bad person but I just can't take those little guys seriously.

Even when they do something technically impressive, it just looks like two little kids running around in a jungle gym.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Oh look , there are others that think this card was a joke. I guess they must be trolls also for voicing their opinion.

Okay not really, they probably just have higher standards.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

BOOM said:


> Oh look , there are others that think this card was a joke. I guess they must be trolls also for voicing their opinion.
> 
> Okay not really, they probably just have higher standards.


Find me a post where I said I liked this card? Just one post. Can't? It's because I didn't but just because I didn't doesn't mean I have to agree with every pointless thing that comes out of your mouth.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> Find me a post where I said I liked this card? Just one post. Can't? It's because I didn't but just because I didn't doesn't mean I have to agree with every pointless thing that comes out of your mouth.



Umm, I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about others who have the same opinion as I do in which the UFC has been reduced to crap and they're still charging top dollar to watch it.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

I had it pretty clearly for Johnson.

Sent from my Desire HD using VerticalSports.Com App


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## 3DLee (Aug 30, 2006)

I'm not going to attack anyone's opinion on here. But Dana has said it best. If you don't like whos fighting on a particular card, DONT BUY IT! I think on paper and in actuality, this was a really really solid card. 2 title fights. Bisping vs Stann was my favorite FOTN. Even though I really like Stann over Bisping, they both fought hard and Bisping deserved the W. They are both getting a lot better and I hope to see a rematch in a couple of years. 

ON TOPIC: I enjoyed watching this fight. This may be one of the few fights that Ive watched and was more impressed by one fighter's defense than either of their offenses. Demetrious Johnson is so quick. Benavidez really tried hard. He'll likely have another shot at gold in this weight class some time down the road. On a scale from 1-10, 1 being crap and 10 being Hendo vs Fedor/Shogun, I give this here first FW Title fight in UFC history, a 7. :thumb02:

-3dlee


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

I choose indifferent since I wasn't paying attention to it really. Well, I guess that would mean it was bad if I didn't even care to watch.


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## Fang (Jan 4, 2007)

Looked like two little kids on steroids fighting over a toy, I was more entertained by how little they were. I call for a midget division in UFC, I'm talking like anything under 4'5.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

I thought it was a good fight. Not one that I would be overly excited to go back and watch a second time, but it was good.


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## 3DLee (Aug 30, 2006)

I'm not going to attack anyone's opinion on here. But Dana has said it best. If you don't like whos fighting on a particular card, DONT BUY IT! I think on paper and in actuality, this was a really really solid card. 2 title fights. Bisping vs Stann was my favorite FOTN. Even though I really like Stann over Bisping, they both fought hard and Bisping deserved the W. They are both getting a lot better and I hope to see a rematch in a couple of years. 

ON TOPIC: I enjoyed watching this fight. This may be one of the few fights that Ive watched and was more impressed by one fighter's defense than either of their offenses. Demetrious Johnson is so quick. Benavidez really tried hard. He'll likely have another shot at gold in this weight class some time down the road. On a scale from 1-10, 1 being crap and 10 being Hendo vs Fedor/Shogun, I give this here first FW Title fight in UFC history, a 6.5. :thumb02:

-3dlee


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Round 4 was probably one of the better rounds I have seen this year. I enjoyed the fight throughout but I am a big fan of the smaller weight classes so this was right up my alley.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I really enjoy the lighter classes. Always have. WEC used to be my favorite so I am a fan of these fights.


Sent from my iPhone using VerticalSports


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Awesome fight.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I want so badly to take a morally, intellectually correct stand here and lecture you guys on the heart and skill those two showed last night.

But the honest truth is, I had to slap myself awake, fix a drink and walk outside because I was afraid I would fall asleep and miss Belfort/Jones. and that's just wrong


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

I thought it was a good fight but not FOTY or FOTN or even runner up to FOTN.

1. Jimy Hettes vs Marcus Brimage
2. TJ Grant vs Evan Dunham
3. Sean Pierson vs Lance Benoist

Those are six men that really went out there and gave it their all. I'm a little dissapointed by the lack of respect those men are being shown when all of them really went above and beyond tonight.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

John8204 said:


> I thought it was a good fight but not FOTY or FOTN or even runner up to FOTN.
> 
> 1. Jimy Hettes vs Marcus Brimage
> 2. TJ Grant vs Evan Dunham
> ...


Agreed. I gave Grant/Dunham FOTN but those other 2 fights are worth a mention.

I was very impressed with TJ Grant.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Benavidez was clinched up with Mighty Mouse, then he did a 360 for no reason whatsoever and remained clinched with Mighty Mouse without getting his back taken. 

I love watching these guys fight, I was thinking how cool it would have been if Uncle Creepy won, either way we were in for an exciting title fight though.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I didn't find it exciting enough to stop me from fast forwardinng most of it.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

The general consensus among those who did not enjoy the fight seems to be that they didn't feel like there was a chance of the fight being ended which is crazy when you consider that both guys have managed to finish over 50% of there fights. I get the feeling that those who did not enjoy it wrote it off as midgets dancing with no chance of a finish before the fight and I doubt any of the people who didn't enjoy it actually watched it with an open mind.

Either way despite getting called out in the official thread for saying it was a great fight I feel the poll vindicates my opinion.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I personally just didn't find it to be entertaining. It's one of those fights where the punches are landing but the fighters arent being phased. It's the same reason why Evan Dunham's fight wasn't instantly FOTN. Punches were big on both ends, but neither man was put in any trouble so it just didn't captivate us that much.


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## Ryan1522 (Oct 31, 2006)

I was there and I have to say I was bored out of my tree watching the fight. Call me a non-MMA fan but I have zero interest in watching 125lbers fight. I said to my gf and the guy beside me that this was going to be 25 minutes of boredom before it started and I was right. 

There was some good action in the fourth, but two fights broke out in my section during the fight and everyone agreed they were more entertaining. 

The worst fight of the night was Hamill vs Hollett. Absolutely atrocious. Dana should start handing out penalties to WFOTN (worst fight of the night) so you lose 25 percent of your purse or something. It was an atrocity. 

When I originally found out Penn and MacDonald was scrapped and that Johnson-Benavidez was the main event I thought the card was laughable.

I'm definitely biased though in that I enjoy watching bigger, more physically imposing fighters compete. 

Naturally when Jones was added to the card I went to kijiji to get some tickets.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Toxic said:


> The general consensus among those who did not enjoy the fight seems to be that they didn't feel like there was a chance of the fight being ended which is crazy when you consider that both guys have managed to finish over 50% of there fights. I get the feeling that those who did not enjoy it wrote it off as midgets dancing with no chance of a finish before the fight and I doubt any of the people who didn't enjoy it actually watched it with an open mind.
> 
> Either way despite getting called out in the official thread for saying it was a great fight I feel the poll vindicates my opinion.


Umm... are you looking at the numbers, Toxic. You claimed most would agree it was a great fight. It's more than 2 to 1 against that. You are just justifying your position by saying those didn't enjoy it was only because they didn't go in with an open mind. Deciding that you are simply more enlightened than the people who disagree with you doesn't vindicate your opinion. You can have your opinion but don't try to make judgement calls as to why others didn't like the fight.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I can't see the poll on my phone but the numbers of people who likes it vs those who were indifferent or disliked it were about 4-1 this morning


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

*View Poll Results: What did you think of the flyweight title fight?*
Great Fight 17	26.56%
It was good but not great. 16	25.00%
Indifferent, it was filler 12	18.75%
Wasn't very entertaining or exciting 13	20.31%
Complete Garbage 4	6.25%
Strawberry Shortcake reruns. 2	3.13%


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Toxic said:


> The general consensus among those who did not enjoy the fight seems to be that they didn't feel like there was a chance of the fight being ended which is crazy when you consider that both guys have managed to finish over 50% of there fights.


Did you ever feel a finish was coming? You just get a feel for it after a few rounds that no finish is coming...not to mention neither guy has ever been finished - i think just about everyone was picking a decision here.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Wow that change drastically. There were only 4 negative votes when I left the house


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Toxic said:


> I can't see the poll on my phone but the numbers of people who likes it vs those who were indifferent or disliked it were about 4-1 this morning
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using VS Free


Your stance was that most here would see the fight as great. Here's your original statement.



Toxic said:


> I think most people here would agree that was an awesome fight.


17 - Great
16 - Good
26 - Indifferent or not exciting
3 - Bad

That is 45 to 17 on people not seeing it as a great fight. That is about a 2.5 to 1 ratio against your original statement. Even if you count the good as agreeing with your FOTY stance - which you shouldn't since most are in heavy agreement that Dunham/Grant was FOTN - that would put it at 33 to 29. Which is just slightly above a 1 to 1 ratio.

Numbers don't lie.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

It was alright. Like everyone else said, the 4th round was good. But other than that I just didn't feel like they were engaging that much. It was basically 5 rounds of watching Mighty Mouse use his movement to avoid damage and get points. Impressive, yes. Exciting, not really.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

And I am shocked by that but me be wrong does not make you right, you were just as certain that everyone would agree with you and hate it. 


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Toxic said:


> And I am shocked by that but me be wrong does not make you right, you were just as certain that everyone would agree with you and hate it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using VS Free


I didn't hate the fight. I was just bored with it and I said most would agree that it wasn't that great a fight. Most agreed that it wasn't great according to the poll you put up. Take from that what you will.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

I do not see the problem. This fight is what every fighter should aspire to be - no gassing, no sloppy brawling, to be skilled in all areas and be able to apply that skill 100% for the full scheduled fight time.

If the two skill sets take each other to decision, so what? Ok, if you watched the fight drunk or high or during a social event, you may have missed a lot. Take the time to watch it properly, as a fight fan, it's a crazy 25 minute display of very high level MMA, I love it.

If you genuinely did not enjoy it though, and you are a member of this MMA forum, that is rather strange.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

SM33 said:


> I do not see the problem. This fight is what every fighter should aspire to be - no gassing, no sloppy brawling, to be skilled in all areas and be able to apply that skill 100% for the full scheduled fight time.
> 
> If the two skill sets take each other to decision, so what? Ok, if you watched the fight drunk or high or during a social event, you may have missed a lot. Take the time to watch it properly, as a fight fan, it's a crazy 25 minute display of very high level MMA, I love it.
> 
> If you genuinely did not enjoy it though, and you are a member of this MMA forum, that is rather strange.


See... comments like this piss me off. All it says is that "real" fight fans would love that fight and that there is something strange about you if you don't. It's elitist.

The fight was not that good. The skill level of the fighters was not that high. There was no amazing technique technique shown. It was all speed and cardio. That's it. The techniques used were solid but nothing technique wise stood out. Neither fighter possessed more than 2 of the 4 requirements for truly effective maneuvers. In only one of the rounds did either fighter try to end the fight.

I personally dislike any fight where the fighters aren't trying to finish their opponent. To me that defeats the purpose of fighting. And you can disagree but don't talk down to those who didn't like it.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> See... comments like this piss me off. All it says is that "real" fight fans would love that fight and that there is something strange about you if you don't. It's elitist.
> 
> The fight was not that good. The skill level of the fighters was not that high. There was no amazing technique technique shown. It was all speed and cardio. That's it. The techniques used were solid but nothing technique wise stood out. Neither fighter possessed more than 2 of the 4 requirements for truly effective maneuvers. In only one of the rounds did either fighter try to end the fight.
> 
> I personally dislike any fight where the fighters aren't trying to finish their opponent. To me that defeats the purpose of fighting. And you can disagree but don't talk down to those who didn't like it.


Benavidez was looking for the KO with every single punch, Johnson was firing knees into his opponent's head after every scramble.

But they weren't trying to finish. Right.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

SM33 said:


> Benavidez was looking for the KO with every single punch, Johnson was firing knees into his opponent's head after every scramble.
> 
> But they weren't trying to finish. Right.


Winging wild power shots always earns my favor that's why Leonard Garcia's my favorite fighter. He isn't? Damn.

And those knees had nothing on them. He didn't plant properly or executed them properly. They were knee jabs.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> Winging wild power shots always earns my favor that's why Leonard Garcia's my favorite fighter. He isn't? Damn.
> 
> And those knees had nothing on them. He didn't plant properly or executed them properly. They were knee jabs.


Benavidez went for a guillotine choke, Johnson responded with a heel hook attempt... but they didn't want to finish the fight. Ok.

And knee jabs? Are you having a laugh? I don't care that these guys lack the size and weight to knock everyone silly as soon as they touch them, they fight harder than anyone and it's great to watch.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

It was a solid fight but to label it as a FOTY contender is more then a stretch. The FOTN isn't even a FOTY contender and a fight that didn't get FOTN is supposed to be? 

I have nothing against these guys and there were entertaining but I think some of you look at the speed that these guys are moving at, and think that its a better fight because of it.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

SM33 said:


> Benavidez went for a guillotine choke, Johnson responded with a heel hook attempt... but they didn't want to finish the fight. Ok.
> 
> And knee jabs? Are you having a laugh? I don't care that these guys lack the size and weight to knock everyone silly as soon as they touch them, they fight harder than anyone and it's great to watch.


Neither submission was even close and did you miss how I said outside of one round - that being the 4th - they didn't try to finish the fight? And those were knee jabs. They were poorly executed knees that had no power on them. That's the truth.




Spec0688 said:


> It was a solid fight but to label it as a FOTY contender is more then a stretch. The FOTN isn't even a FOTY contender and a fight that didn't get FOTN is supposed to be?
> 
> I have nothing against these guys and there were entertaining but I think some of you look at the speed that these guys are moving at, and think that its a better fight because of it.


This is what I've been saying all along! And I get told that a real mma fan would love that fight.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> I didn't hate the fight. I was just bored with it and I said most would agree that it wasn't that great a fight. Most agreed that it wasn't great according to the poll you put up. Take from that what you will.


At the time I am posting this.

37 Thought it was good or great
13 were indifferent
22 did not like it

More people liked it than not even if you put the indifferent people in with the people who did not like it.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

HitOrGetHit said:


> At the time I am posting this.
> 
> 37 Thought it was good or great
> 13 were indifferent
> ...


Well, "technically" he said the word "great", and only 17 people thought the fight was "great", 20 thought it was "good but *not* great" and the rest are below that.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to get so technical but, yeah.

I thought the fight was just filler, non-important and I'm not a fan of these tiny guys.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

HitOrGetHit said:


> At the time I am posting this.
> 
> 37 Thought it was good or great
> 13 were indifferent
> ...


That wasn't the original disagreement though. The original was based off of Toxic declaring it FOTY and that most people here would think the fight was awesome. The numbers do not reflect that. Even if you add in the people who were entertained by it it's a damn near fifty/fifty split. 

My whole objection to this has been the stance of Toxic - and several others - that any real fan would have loved this fight. That kind of elitist bs pisses me off. The fight - to me - wasn't exciting but I don't care if someone else found it awesome. I do care when people start making comments about real fans and who should appreciate it or making judgements as to why the people who didn't like the fight didn't like it. It's bullshit.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Can I just say that I am not agreeing with the opinion of this being fight of the year.

It was a fun fight with big implications, both guys took it very seriously and put on a great performance.

It was the fight to crown the first Champ of a new weight division, 'filler' and 'non-important' do not apply.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

SM33 said:


> Can I just say that I am not agreeing with the opinion of this being fight of the year.
> 
> It was a fun fight with big implications, both guys took it very seriously and put on a great performance.
> 
> It was the fight to crown the first Champ of a new weight division, 'filler' and 'non-important' do not apply.


Obliviously it applies looking at the votes. Not everyone cares about that division, including me.

Your opinion is your own, but others do apply.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

M.C said:


> Obliviously it applies looking at the votes. Not everyone cares about that division, including me.
> 
> Your opinion is your own, but others do apply.


I just don't see how weight class makes any difference, and I'm yet to see an argument for why low weight fights are less exciting. A fight is a fight, I like fights.

I understand people wanting to see knockouts, I understand people wanting to see abnormally large men fighting, but as a fight fan, how is two guys going 100mph for 25 minutes not exciting?

I don't see it as an opinion, I think it comes with the territory of enjoying a good fight.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I also dont really understand how people consider themselves fight fans but only want to see large men fight. :dunno:

A fight is a fight. :thumbsup:


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

I was entertained throughout - good fight. Not my FOTY though. I really enjoy the flyweights (As well as the other lighter weightclasses) because of the speed and the technicallity of the little guys 

BTW I still think Uncle Creepy beat Mighty Mouse the first time around, oh well


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

SM33 said:


> I don't see it as an opinion, I think it comes with the territory of enjoying a good fight.


Yours is an opinion. The same as everyone elses. You just dress yours up in elitist bs.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

SM33 said:


> I just don't see how weight class makes any difference, and I'm yet to see an argument for why low weight fights are less exciting. A fight is a fight, I like fights.
> 
> I understand people wanting to see knockouts, I understand people wanting to see abnormally large men fighting, but as a fight fan, how is two guys going 100mph for 25 minutes not exciting?
> 
> I don't see it as an opinion, I think it comes with the territory of enjoying a good fight.


Obviously it's an opinion, as it's my opinion along with many others opinion, you saying it's not an opinion is nonsensical and incorrect on a factual level. 

I don't like watching tiny guys the size of my 12 year old cousin speed around each other for 5 rounds, it's as simple as that. That division is meaningless to me, I have 0 interest in watching fights at that weight, they do not entertain me and obviously others as well.

You disagree, that's fine, but just like any other subject, yours is only an opinion and so is mine and others, you'll just have to accept that.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> Yours is an opinion. The same as everyone elses. You just dress yours up in elitist bs.


I still don't see an argument for why this fight is not entertaining or relevant to certain 'fight fans' like yourself. It was fast paced, varied non stop action, technical and both guys had great moments. To me that's the definition of a good fight.

I did see the neg rep and prick comment though, guess that confirms your distaste for any form of skilled warfare.

:thumbsup:


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

SM33 said:


> I still don't see an argument for why this fight is not entertaining or relevant to certain 'fight fans' like yourself. It was fast paced, varied non stop action, technical and both guys had great moments. To me that's the definition of a good fight.
> 
> I did see the neg rep and prick comment though, guess that confirms your distaste for any form of skilled warfare.
> 
> :thumbsup:


I have laid out my argument multiple times in this thread. At least once was in response to you personally so I will not do so again. I...

You know what? You're not worth wasting anymore of my time on. You want to be an elitist prick. Go ahead. I'm just going to ignore you.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

I got no problems with the weight, being smaller does not mean they cant stand in the pocket and bang - boxing has showed us this over the years. Its just these two didnt really do that, Benadivez wasnt landing and Johnson didnt attempt a single move that had a chance of finishing the fight...he was point fighting and Benavidez couldnt do anything about it. Nothing wrong with it, wasnt a great fight though.


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## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

RearNaked said:


> I know I'm a bad person but I just can't take those little guys seriously.
> 
> Even when they do something technically impressive, it just looks like two little kids running around in a jungle gym.


HA - probably the best comment I've read, but I think there's sadly a bit of truth to it.

These guys have all the skill in the world, but when I see people smaller than me (I'm pretty tiny) fighting I can't help but laugh a bit.

This is one topic that the MMA world seems to be split down the fence on. Unfortunately most of the little guys look like they are throwing muffins at each other. They are quick as hell, but theres a definite lack of power behind the attacks in general - I can't remember the last time I saw a KO that "wowed" me at 145 or below. I don't see any difference between a fight at 125 and 145.

As mentioned, it's tough for me watching these fights when you are sure that 9/10 will be point fights, with no chance of a KO. The odd fight will have a tko/submission, but if you look back historically, there aren't many KOs, and a hell of a lot of decisions.

I've often heard MMA as being called the "fast food" of combat sports (compared to boxing) -- the sport draws a lot of fans who want to see a violent, quick fight. Point fighting doesn't appeal to a large chunk of MMA fanbase. I don't think it's wrong or right, that's the way the sport and fanbase have evolved, and a champion like GSP has taken a lot of flak for what people would consider point fighting, but yet a fight like this gets people screaming FOTY.

I think the biggest problem was the UFC jumped the gun a little bit. Within a very short time frame 3 new divisions were created - all that offer a very similar viewer experience/product.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

deadmanshand said:


> I have laid out my argument multiple times in this thread. At least once was in response to you personally so I will not do so again. I...
> 
> You know what? You're not worth wasting anymore of my time on. You want to be an elitist prick. Go ahead. I'm just going to ignore you.


The Elitist Prick stuff won't be tolerated if you can't have an intelligent debate then quit debating it. 

This is a well laid out argument below that is the first I have seen that didn't simply sound along the lines of being about the two being midgets/small children. I just struggle to understand the viewpoint of most who didn't like it because it seemed like most of those who did not enjoy it disliked it because of the size of the guys in the cage like had they just been two random fighters on youtube for some random org and they didn't know how big the guys were it would have been so much better. I have not seen a single person say they expected a better fight or have I seen anybody who said they were disappointed by the fight. The flyweights put on a great fight but it seems most of the people with a negative point of view simply feel its impossible for flyweights to put on a good fight no matter what they did.


Joabbuac said:


> I got no problems with the weight, being smaller does not mean they cant stand in the pocket and bang - boxing has showed us this over the years. Its just these two didnt really do that, Benadivez wasnt landing and Johnson didnt attempt a single move that had a chance of finishing the fight...he was point fighting and Benavidez couldnt do anything about it. Nothing wrong with it, wasnt a great fight though.


The single post I have seen with somebody negatively critiquing the fight without making weight an issue. Strongly disagree but well thought out post none the less.

I will say standing in the pocket would have been a mistake for Johnson because Benadivez would have come out on top had Demitrious tried playing that game.


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## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

SM33 said:


> I still don't see an argument for why this fight is not entertaining or relevant to certain 'fight fans' like yourself. It was fast paced, varied non stop action, technical and both guys had great moments. To me that's the definition of a good fight.
> 
> I did see the neg rep and prick comment though, guess that confirms your distaste for any form of skilled warfare.
> 
> :thumbsup:


Because a lot of people predicted this to be a 5 round points fight from the start.

A lot of people simply aren't interested in watching somebody the size of a 15 year old fight. 

A lot of people just aren't wowed -- including myself.

It's not a right opinion, or a wrong opinion, it's a product that doesn't interest many fans, and you can either accept that as reality, or get into pissing matches on forums. The former would cause a lot less stress.

I highly doubt that this poll is statistically represantitive of anything... but only 24% put this fight in the great category. 29% thought it was good. It's bascially a 50% / 50% split (great/good vs. the rest). From the forums I visit, that's pretty much what I expected, as the MMA world has been on the fence with the addition of the 125, 135 and 145 divisions from day 1.

What worries me is that this is the top level talent at 125, yet you have fans split 50/50 on the issue. The UFC has a lot of work to sell these smaller classes to a large chunk of their fans.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Toxic said:


> The single post I have seen with somebody negatively critiquing the fight without making weight an issue. Strongly disagree but well thought out post none the less.
> 
> I will say standing in the pocket would have been a mistake for Johnson because Benadivez would have come out on top had Demitrious tried playing that game.


I have always said its on the person losing the fight to force it into the type of fight they can win - Johnson was winning, it was his fight..it was all on Benadivez but he wasnt able to force a fight out of Johnson bar in that 4th round.

I was more sticking up for the flyweights with that comment - we will get plenty of flyweights who want to stand and trade, which will get some great fights out of the division.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Toxic said:


> The Elitist Prick stuff won't be tolerated if you can't have an intelligent debate then quit debating it.


He is being that so I called him on it. You did it too. So I called you on it too. 



Toxic said:


> This is a well laid out argument below that is the first I have seen that didn't simply sound along the lines of being about the two being midgets/small children. I just struggle to understand the viewpoint of most who didn't like it because it seemed like most of those who did not enjoy it disliked it because of the size of the guys in the cage like had they just been two random fighters on youtube for some random org and they didn't know how big the guys were it would have been so much better. I have not seen a single person say they expected a better fight or have I seen anybody who said they were disappointed by the fight. The flyweights put on a great fight but it seems most of the people with a negative point of view simply feel its impossible for flyweights to put on a good fight no matter what they did.


I critiqued the technique of the fight. I'm not a huge fan of the lower weight classes but that didn't impact me judging the fight. I've laid out twice in this thread why I did not like the fight and it had nothing to do with size.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

I liked it, I thought it was fast paced and technical and there was the big moment in the fourth where Joseph rocked him and almost subbed him. Demeterious is something else though, would love to see him and Dodson go at it.

That said, the fight aside how on earth anyone could have given that to Joe is beyond me.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> I liked it, I thought it was fast paced and technical and there was the big moment in the fourth where Joseph rocked him and almost subbed him. Demeterious is something else though, would love to see him and Dodson go at it.
> 
> That said, the fight aside how on earth anyone could have given that to Joe is beyond me.


That is what I was thinking. I was rooting for Joe B the whole time but I was surprised to hear it was a split decision.


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

It was boring as hell. Granted I was anxiously awaiting for the Bones fight, but still. The general public just does not want to see anything below 155. That is why with fights like this, Faber/Barao, etc, Dana tries so hard to defend them. He wants to get people to like them, although in reality, I truly believe many people would rather have the 5 division than 7 or 8.


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

it was a good fight. i couldn't tell with any certainty before round 4 who was winning, but was a good fight to watch.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

The Best Around said:


> It was boring as hell. Granted I was anxiously awaiting for the Bones fight, but still. The general public just does not want to see anything below 155. That is why with fights like this, Faber/Barao, etc, Dana tries so hard to defend them. He wants to get people to like them, although in reality, I truly believe many people would rather have the 5 division than 7 or 8.


There was a time people didn't want to see anything below 170, hell that is why BJ made his initial run at WW. BJ move back down to LW is what made the LW division relevant in peoples eyes. I believe Edgar vs Aldo will be the fight that makes the FW division relevant. I get that the general public isn't interested in the lighter weight classes, it honestly though has just as much to do IMO with the fact that nobody cares about the fighters in the divisions cause they don't know who they are and they don't know who they are and they can't fight anybody anyone cares about. Its the same problem that haunts organizations like Bellator. 

I am surprised though that people on the board who obviously know the fighters and understand the level of skill involved didn't all enjoy the fight.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

What really is the problem with 125 is there's absolutely no depth in the division. The UFC has 5 guys signed to it. Even if you get them exposure there's no one for them to fight. There is just not enough fighters in this division - I think - for people to get excited. They have as many flyweight fighters as Jones has title defenses.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

deadmanshand said:


> What really is the problem with 125 is there's absolutely no depth in the division. The UFC has 5 guys signed to it. Even if you get them exposure there's no one for them to fight. There is just not enough fighters in this division - I think - for people to get excited. They have as many flyweight fighters as Jones has title defenses.


This is true, hell at least if Benevidez had won then they could have had him vs Uncle Creepy. Now they really got nothing and even Dodson doesn't even remotely excite me. There was 3 guys and then everyone else and one of them just ran through the other two. The division is on life support just as soon as it really got started and that is coming from one of the divisions biggest advocates.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Right now they should be focused on establishing 135 and 145. They just don't have the talent pool to market the smaller fighters and hope for any real success. This small of a weight class starts to suffer Heavyweight Syndrome. Human size is on a bell curve. More people fall into the mid ranges (145 to 205) than the extremes (125, 135, and 265). Less people in that weight range means less depth in the fight pool.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

I posted this in the other thread but I suppose it is just as relevant, if not more so for this one:



Killz said:


> in 2 or 3 years, once the lighter divisions have some depth. Once we all get to know the history of the fighters, the styles, the interesting matchups, the rivalries, the dramas, THEN they will be just as exciting, if not more so than the heavier divisions.
> 
> The heavier divisions all have histories, which to me, makes most fights in them interesting as we have previous bouts to compare them with.
> 
> Some people just need to give the small guys a chance. They put on a hell of a fight.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Definitely FOTY contender right there. The pace they put on was just ridiculous, especially in the 4th in 5th.


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## MMAROLLER (Sep 24, 2012)

maybe its just a sense of perception when you put small fighters inside a big octagon but for me its not as entertaining as watching the bigger weight classes, sure you get to see some super fast movement as they bounce around the octagon, and credit to them they used the space well, showed great speed and cardio.

But unfortunately does not change the fact that the octagon makes them look like midgets and I miss the higher percent of added danger in the power of larger weight classes, I would not pay a PPV if I had to to watch a flyweight title fight in the main event, but I have no issues about it been on the card the way the UFC did it co-main to another upper weight title fight.

As for Joe Rogans commentary on the higher level of skill been shown, he was just doing his job and promoting not just the fight but the division that the UFC is trying to sell, everything was just at a faster pace as is natural as you move down in weight, nothing was more skillful, what did we really see aside from a mounted guillotine attempt that the fighter never really fully locked up, and some counter striking, nothing was more dynamic or skillful that we saw from Johnson than we see from other champions like Jones, Dos Santos or Silva, in fact I would say that all those champions are a lot more skillful and dynamic in there striking that Johnson by a mile even.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

oldfan said:


> *I want so badly to take a morally, intellectually correct stand here and lecture you guys on the heart and skill those two showed last night.*
> 
> But the honest truth is, I had to slap myself awake, fix a drink and walk outside because I was afraid I would fall asleep and miss Belfort/Jones. and that's just wrong


Don't feel bad, neither of those things are actually true.

I've gone on record before saying that I don't particularly care for the lighter divisions, but I tried to enjoy the fight, and just watched it again to see if my early impressions were correct.

I can say this with some conviction: If you think this fight was exciting, you're weird. And if you think it was good, you're flat out wrong.

When the best thing you can say about the winner is that he was extremely elusive, you're not talking about a particularly exciting fight, IMO. But OK, that's subjective.

but as for skill and heart? Objectively, the skill and heart shown by these fighters was nothing to write home about.

Joseph Benavidez' striking is quite poor. He throws extremely wide, looping, telegraphed punches. But at least he was moving forward and throwing flurries, even if they were about as accurate as sgt. Mulligan's mortars.

Johnson spent most of the fight circling and countering, but never once followed a successful strike with more punches. Between rounds 3 and 4 Matt Hume actually told him to "start fighting." 

Here are some figures from fightmetric: 
Demetrius Johnson - 156 strikes thrown in a five round fight.
Michael Bisping - 141 strikes thrown in a 3 round fight.
Brian Stann - 141 strikes thrown in a 3 round fight.

And Joe and Goldie were talking about Johnson's cardio and pace. Well guess what, dancing around takes less out of you than actually throwing leather.

So in the striking department we had one fighter showing heart by moving forward, but that's hardly exceptional, and the other fighter showing skillful footwork, but not using combinations or staying in the pocket. So neither fighter showed both. Nor an exceptional degree of either skill or heart.

In the grappling department we got extremely lackluster submission attempts from both fighters, and some nice takedowns from Johnson in the 5th, but he couldn't really do anything with them.

*There was nothing good about this fight other than the scrambling.*

Before watching the fight a second time I voted "good, but not great" after watching it a second time I think the Canadians were right to boo.


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## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

I thought it was amazing. Definiite FOTY contender for me. I am amazed people didn't enjoy it - I can only rationalize it as people who didn't enjoy it want to see big giants with no tekkers just flatten each other with big hits and have no appreciation for straight up amazing technique and footwork. Same as Diaz v Condit I loved it.


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## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

I watched it, I have set through much worse and not complained, it was still better than most boxing matches. The small guys are not my favorite but its still a good fight. I get some people just don't like the small guys but I don't understand the booing of those two guys.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Hawndo said:


> I thought it was amazing. Definiite FOTY contender for me. I am amazed people didn't enjoy it - I can only rationalize it as people who didn't enjoy it want to see big giants with no tekkers just flatten each other with big hits and have no appreciation for straight up amazing technique and footwork. Same as Diaz v Condit I loved it.


Again, Benavidez has terrible technique and Johnson has amazing footwork but didn't throw a single combination.

Diaz and Condit are both twice the fighters these two guys are.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

The fighters definitely went out there and performed but my honest opinion is.. (and this is *my* opinion)... That division is about as exciting as watching windup toys. I want my UFC champion to be big enough to ride all the rides at an amusement park.


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

Toxic said:


> There was a time people didn't want to see anything below 170, hell that is why BJ made his initial run at WW. BJ move back down to LW is what made the LW division relevant in peoples eyes. I believe Edgar vs Aldo will be the fight that makes the FW division relevant. I get that the general public isn't interested in the lighter weight classes, it honestly though has just as much to do IMO with the fact that nobody cares about the fighters in the divisions cause they don't know who they are and they don't know who they are and they can't fight anybody anyone cares about. Its the same problem that haunts organizations like Bellator.
> 
> I am surprised though that people on the board who obviously know the fighters and understand the level of skill involved didn't all enjoy the fight.


Honestly, people still don't really care about anything below 170. Penn was really the only exception for LW. People like Sanchez and Guida, but they aren't really money makers. Have you seen the buyrates lately? Rampage/Hamill with a SCRAPPED MAIN EVENT did way more than the PPV that had BOTH the Featherweight and Lightweight title fights (last October). Edgar/Bendo 2 was the lowest buyrate in years. Nobody really does care about anything below 170 to be honest.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

The Best Around said:


> Honestly, people still don't really care about anything below 170. Penn was really the only exception for LW. People like Sanchez and Guida, but they aren't really money makers. Have you seen the buyrates lately? Rampage/Hamill with a SCRAPPED MAIN EVENT did way more than the PPV that had BOTH the Featherweight and Lightweight title fights (last October). Edgar/Bendo 2 was the lowest buyrate in years. Nobody really does care about anything below 170 to be honest.


Ah, I cant agree with that. In my opinion the lightweight division is probably one of the most popular divisions.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Hawndo said:


> I thought it was amazing. Definiite FOTY contender for me. I am amazed people didn't enjoy it - I can only rationalize it as people who didn't enjoy it want to see big giants with no tekkers just flatten each other with big hits and have no appreciation for straight up amazing technique and footwork. Same as Diaz v Condit I loved it.


Diaz and Condit had MUCH less technique and footwork. It was Condit running backwards and throwing small attacks with weak intentions, and Diaz using know knowledge and marching forward as Condit easily avoided it.



Killz said:


> Ah, I cant agree with that. In my opinion the lightweight division is probably one of the most popular divisions.


Agreed. You have Diaz, who has a massive following. You have Bendo with a decent amount of fans, and everyone who isnt a fan is probably an Edgar fan. You've got Cerrone who is an animal, Gray Maynard who people would pay to see, Jim Miller is a solid mid carder. The LW division is by far the most popular, it just doesnt have a dominant figurehead to command it. Bendo is a very beatable opponent, while otherwise you have guys like Cruz, Aldo, GSP, Silva, Jones and JDS, all of which really are at the top of the pile.

If Diaz wins the LW title, I have a feeling that we will see it completley blow up as he too is beatable but almost guarentees a FOTN every time he steps out.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Killz said:


> Ah, I cant agree with that. In my opinion the lightweight division is probably one of the most popular divisions.


145 and 135 are starting to come around with Faber being so popular, Edgar moving down, people like Mendes and KZ making names for themselves and Aldo and Cruz proving to be legitimate champions.


Sent from my iPhone using VerticalSports


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## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

I stopped caring about it once it became apparent Benavidez wasn't going to KO Johnson.. I'll watch flyweights, and generally enjoy the lighter weight-classes, but I really don't like guys like Cruz and Johnson.


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## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

I'm not sure if its lack of familiarity or that I just enjoy the heavier weight classes more but I don't really enjoy the lower weight classes at all. Don't get me wrong, these guys obviously have a ton of skills and a lot of heart but it just doesn't do it for me.

I'll come off sounding hypocritical because I love to watch technical battles that go back and forth but I just don't get that excitement level with the small guys that I do when two 205lb dudes are swinging for the fences, going after subs and leaving it all out there. I know lots of people will disagree with me but that's just the feeling I get when they fight. For me HW, LHW, MW and WW are really the only weight classes that I really consider draws, anything else to me at this point are fillers. I wouldn't be sinking my money into LW, BW, FW Pay per view cards that are headlined by those weight classes. I know that sounds bad but it is what it is, either you're excited by it or you're not. I'm not.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Diaz and Condit had MUCH less technique and footwork. It was Condit running backwards and throwing small attacks with weak intentions, and Diaz using know knowledge and marching forward as Condit easily avoided it.


Wrong. Condit threw a bunch of combinations and actually had Diaz hurt a few times (There was a body kick that staggered Diaz, a right cross, and I think he could've ended the fight if he followed up on the second head kick.)

Oh, and those "small attacks with weak intentions" had Diaz switching stance in the 5th.

And Diaz did manage to cut off the cage a few times in the first couple of rounds, and eventually took Condit's back standing.

All Benavidez did was swing wildly, and all Johnson did was dance around throwing single counters, and eventually got dropped by one of those haymakers. And never even came close to hurting Benavidez in the standup. short, single punches in every exchange.

This was like a bargain basement version of that fight. It was genuinely bad. This whole spiel about technique is baseless.


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

demoman993 said:


> I'm not sure if its lack of familiarity or that I just enjoy the heavier weight classes more but I don't really enjoy the lower weight classes at all. Don't get me wrong, these guys obviously have a ton of skills and a lot of heart but it just doesn't do it for me.
> 
> I'll come off sounding hypocritical because I love to watch technical battles that go back and forth but I just don't get that excitement level with the small guys that I do when two 205lb dudes are swinging for the fences, going after subs and leaving it all out there. I know lots of people will disagree with me but that's just the feeling I get when they fight. For me HW, LHW, MW and WW are really the only weight classes that I really consider draws, anything else to me at this point are fillers. I wouldn't be sinking my money into LW, BW, FW Pay per view cards that are headlined by those weight classes. I know that sounds bad but it is what it is, either you're excited by it or you're not. I'm not.


I feel exactly that way about the flyweight division. I think that the possibility of a finish is what glues us to the fight. A chance of seeing a KO or submission excites us and makes us want to watch the fight. In the flyweight division, the fighters are all so highly skilled that submissions are going to be rare, and they don't pack enough KO power. It makes one tempted to just skip to the decision and just find out who managed to outmatch their opponent.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Sports_Nerd said:


> Wrong. Condit threw a bunch of combinations and actually had Diaz hurt a few times (There was a body kick that staggered Diaz, a right cross, and I think he could've ended the fight if he followed up on the second head kick.)
> 
> Oh, and those "small attacks with weak intentions" had Diaz switching stance in the 5th.
> 
> ...


Diaz wasnt even CLOSE to being hurt. His inability to cut off the ring was the only story in the fight.

Benavidez was swinging quite wildy at times, but Mighty Mouse's flawless footwork is what made him look that badly.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

OHKO said:


> I feel exactly that way about the flyweight division. I think that the possibility of a finish is what glues us to the fight. A chance of seeing a KO or submission excites us and makes us want to watch the fight. In the flyweight division, the fighters are all so highly skilled that submissions are going to be rare, and they don't pack enough KO power. It makes one tempted to just skip to the decision and just find out who managed to outmatch their opponent.


So you don't enjoy watching fights, you just like seeing people get knocked out and submitted.

Did you not feel the possibility of a finish when Benavidez dropped Johnson in the fourth round? I felt that possibility the whole time, because anyone who has seen his fights knows he hits hard, and he was fighting with bad intentions all night.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Diaz wasnt even CLOSE to being hurt. His inability to cut off the ring was the only story in the fight.
> 
> Benavidez was swinging quite wildy at times, but Mighty Mouse's flawless footwork is what made him look that badly.


Diaz was a lot more hurt than Benavidez was in this fight. And again, stance-switching.

And yes, Johnson's footwork is very good, but are you really going to tell me you think Benavidez' striking is anything more than mediocre? The guy threw wild punches all through the fight. And elusive as Johnson was, he still got dropped.

FW is a shallow division, with a small talent pool. And the narrower the base of the pyramid, the shorter it's going to be. This was a bad title fight between two mediocre fighters.


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

SM33 said:


> So you don't enjoy watching fights, you just like seeing people get knocked out and submitted.
> 
> Did you not feel the possibility of a finish when Benavidez dropped Johnson in the fourth round? I felt that possibility the whole time, because anyone who has seen his fights knows he hits hard, and he was fighting with bad intentions all night.


I enjoy watching fights, more so if there is a higher probability of a finish. Tell me you would rather watch Johnson defend his title than say, Anderson Silva? The possibility of a magical finish is so exciting and glues me to my laptop screen every single time. The heavier fighters pack such power that anything can happen. 

Was the Benavidez-Johnson fight good? I'd say yes. But was it that exciting that it got me sitting at the edge of my seat? No. The only time I got really interested in the fight was the 1st round ( to get a rough gauge of who is going to win the fight ) and the 4th round. 

Maybe I'm judging the division before it really has the chance to set off, but thats just what I feel right now. I think that the flyweight division is just too extreme. How many fully grown men weigh around 125 pounds? How many of these men are good enough athletes to be UFC fighters? How many of these athletes would want to choose the path of being a UFC fighter? 

Probably need a longer time before I can determine how I truly feel about the division though. If there is more talent flowing in and better finishers, then I'm all good.

Edit: On a side note, I absolutely hate it when one questions another of being a fight fan just because they have difference preferences in fights. Lets give an example. You like rock, while I like pop. Then you say I'm not a real fan of music just because I like the mainstream pop nowadays, which absolutely sucks. However, its just because my taste for music differs from you. Same for MMA. You prefer watching flyweights fight, while I have preference for those that are able to finish a fight. Not saying flyweights can't finish a fight, but you have to admit the probability is lower.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Sports_Nerd said:


> Wrong. Condit threw a bunch of combinations and actually had Diaz hurt a few times (There was a body kick that staggered Diaz, a right cross, and I think he could've ended the fight if he followed up on the second head kick.)
> 
> Oh, and those "small attacks with weak intentions" had Diaz switching stance in the 5th.
> 
> ...


His face looked pretty beat up for a guy who was never close to looking hurt.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Toxic said:


> His face looked pretty beat up for a guy who was never close to looking hurt.


Yeah, because he ate some jabs. Did any of them slow him down? Stagger him? Make him backpedal? 

No. I'm sure his face hurts like hell right now, because he was in a fight, but when referring to an in-cage situation "hurt" means something different than "having an owie." and you know that, so what's your point?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Sports_Nerd said:


> Yeah, because he ate some jabs. Did any of them slow him down? Stagger him? Make him backpedal?
> 
> No. I'm sure his face hurts like hell right now, because he was in a fight, but when referring to an in-cage situation "hurt" means something different than "having an owie." and you know that, so what's your point?


Has anyone considered Benavidez wasn't hurt cause he is tough as nails and its not just 100% because MightyMouse was to small to actually hurt somebody?


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

Briefly, then I realized every punch MightyMouse throws is a six-inch punch and he's not Bruce Lee..


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Fieos said:


> Briefly, then I realized every punch MightyMouse throws is a six-inch punch and he's not Bruce Lee..


Nah Bruce Lee is Boorrinnggg. You see how small he was? Psh We only take large men seriously around these parts.


Sent from my iPhone using VerticalSports


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Has anyone considered Benavidez wasn't hurt cause he is tough as nails and its not just 100% because MightyMouse was to small to actually hurt somebody?


Have you considered it's because he doesn't hit hard? Or utilize any of the technique markers for generating power? He's had one ko in 4 years. That was a head kick against a no name before he ever fought in the WEC. In the 9 fights MM has had since he joined the WEC/UFC he has only finished 1. A submission against a completely gassed Damacio Page.

He literally only did damage by an accumulation of pitter patter shots. And not the Diaz kind of accumulation either that can actually stop a fight. Today Benavidez is probably a little sore and a little bruised - he deserves much worse for winging shots all night - but hardly hurting and with the number of shots Johnson landed on him that is pathetic.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

deadmanshand said:


> Have you considered it's because he doesn't hit hard? Or utilize any of the technique markers for generating power? He's had one ko in 4 years. That was a head kick against a no name before he ever fought in the WEC. In the 9 fights MM has had since he joined the WEC/UFC he has only finished 1. A submission against a completely gassed Damacio Page.
> 
> He literally only did damage by an accumulation of pitter patter shots. And not the Diaz kind of accumulation either that can actually stop a fight. Today Benavidez is probably a little sore and a little bruised - he deserves much worse for winging shots all night - but hardly hurting and with the number of shots Johnson landed on him that is pathetic.


He landed a lot of good solid shots to the body and legs. Benavidez was definitely feeling like shit the next day.


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## MMAROLLER (Sep 24, 2012)

If you see this as fight of the year you have to be joking, would fight fans have been booing if this was even a contestant at fight of the year.

When you break it down and compare to other title fights these fighters don't even come close to the level of skill displayed by other champions and contenders, there was nothing great to speak of in that fight, if so please tell me what moment stood out so much that its making people rank it so highly, was there any great moves that left you in ore? No, was there a great KO or submission? No, was we even close to a great moment? NO..

If you think that Johnson is more skilled than other champions like Anderson Silva, GSP, Jones, Dos Santos, Aldo, Henderson or even Cruse then you are kidding yourself.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

I've been on other forums and am horrified by the whole "I didn't pay to see two midgets fighting!"...I'm gonna enjoy the FlW division once it fleshes out, that match had me buzzin'!


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

MMAROLLER said:


> If you see this as fight of the year you have to be joking, would fight fans have been booing if this was even a contestant at fight of the year.
> 
> When you break it down and compare to other title fights these fighters don't even come close to the level of skill displayed by other champions and contenders, there was nothing great to speak of in that fight, if so please tell me what moment stood out so much that its making people rank it so highly, was there any great moves that left you in ore? No, was there a great KO or submission? No, was we even close to a great moment? NO..
> 
> If you think that Johnson is more skilled than other champions like Anderson Silva, GSP, Jones, Dos Santos, Aldo, Henderson or even Cruse then you are kidding yourself.


Careful, you might lose some points for voicing an opinion which is shared by at least half of the MMA community.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

if you don't like you could always go somewhere else


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Hate to say it, Liza, but in all likelihood the flyweight division is going to fold before it fleshes out. Too few fighters. The UFC has 5, I believe, on the payroll. MM has already beat two of the other 4. That's not a division.

The problem is so few men are this size and athletically gifted that the talent pool will always be smaller than the more common weight ranges. Combine that with most casual fans distaste of the lighter weight classes and it doesn't spell out a bright future.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

I can see them sticking with it what ever tbh, it wont headline many ppvs though....i can see the title fights being regulated to free cards only and the rest being prelims - only reason to can it altogether would be fighter pay....if they feel they would be making more fighting at bantamweight that is where they will go if possible.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

LizaG said:


> if you don't like you could always go somewhere else


I don't have a problem with differing opinions sweety, I'm just smart enough not to neg rep someone (constantly in some cases, cough) for having a different viewpoint of the sport we all love.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

BOOM said:


> I don't have a problem with differing opinions sweety, I'm just smart enough not to neg rep someone (constantly in some cases, cough) for having a different viewpoint of the sport we all love.


We don't neg you because you have a different opinion. We neg you because you don't know how to express an opinion without insulting everyone who believes differently ...and for your inability to defend any of your statements when someone asks you to back it up ...and for preferring to insult people rather than discuss anything with them ...and for being unable to do anything other than be negative and argumentative to a scale even I find baffling ...and for generally being an unpleasant person to talk to.

You see the people on this board - most of us - don't neg people for having a different opinion. Read this whole thread. I was arguing against something some other posters really believed in. Do you know how many neg reps I received? Not a one. And I argued vehemently. Things got heated and nothing. Well... nothing besides the odd private message.

If everybody is neg repping you and not the other people presenting unfavorable opinions then you might want to consider that the reason has more to do with you than us.


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## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

I liked the fight however I will say that the lack of power is definitely a downside to the division (just like the lack of speed is a downside to the heavyweights). Even though the movement and back and forths were amazing you don't get the same edge of your seat feel because the odds of the fight ending while standing is much lower. However once they start rolling you get that affect since they could submit each other at any moment (assuming the 2 fighters are good at subs).



OHKO said:


> I enjoy watching fights, more so if there is a higher probability of a finish. Tell me you would rather watch Johnson defend his title than say, Anderson Silva? The possibility of a magical finish is so exciting and glues me to my laptop screen every single time. The heavier fighters pack such power that anything can happen.
> 
> Was the Benavidez-Johnson fight good? I'd say yes. But was it that exciting that it got me sitting at the edge of my seat? No. The only time I got really interested in the fight was the 1st round ( to get a rough gauge of who is going to win the fight ) and the 4th round.
> 
> ...


Worldwide? I would say a pretty good amount. If you look online you will see a lot of different numbers for average height but 5ft7in seems to be about average for a guy (worldwide). And doctor recommended weight for a guy thats 5ft7in is ~150lbs. And with weight cutting a guy thats 140lbs maybe even 145lbs could make 125. So its not really that far off average, so you can get some almost average sized guys, some muscular short guys and some skinny just over average height guys.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> We don't neg you because you have a different opinion. We neg you because you don't know how to express an opinion without insulting everyone who believes differently ...and for your inability to defend any of your statements when someone asks you to back it up ...and for preferring to insult people rather than discuss anything with them ...and for being unable to do anything other than be negative and argumentative to a scale even I find baffling ...and for generally being an unpleasant person to talk to.
> 
> You see the people on this board - most of us - don't neg people for having a different opinion. Read this whole thread. I was arguing against something some other posters really believed in. Do you know how many neg reps I received? Not a one. And I argued vehemently. Things got heated and nothing. Well... nothing besides the odd private message.
> 
> If everybody is neg repping you and not the other people presenting unfavorable opinions then you might want to consider that the reason has more to do with you than us.


The problem with your argument is I haven't insulted anyone (at least not directly or in a harmful way) and I have backed up everything I've said. That's your opinion if you believe that and you're certainly entitled to it but it does'nt make it true either.

Oh and don't worry, I won't neg rep you for your post.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

BOOM said:


> The problem with your argument is I haven't insulted anyone (at least not directly or in a harmful way) and I have backed up everything I've said. That's your opinion if you believe that and you're certainly entitled to it but it does'nt make it true either.
> 
> Oh and don't worry, I won't neg rep you for your post.


Oh... neither of those are problems because neither of them are true. You have insulted most of the posters here in generally sweeping insults aimed at the masses rather than individualizing them. And you have absolutely not backed up a single word you have said. In fact - in multiple threads - I have seen people ask you a direct question and you will directly reply... with a comment that has nothing to do with the question. These are both verifiable. Anyone can look up your history of posts and see how I am right.

And, believe me, I'm not worried about a neg rep from you. One - your rep is so bad it might actually increase my rep at this point. Two - is you're on ignore so even if you did it wouldn't register. Three - you negging me is just a sign that I don't have my head totally stuffed into my own ass.

Any other easily debunkable or laughable things to say, sport?


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

best keep it civilized guys, the Mods will just delete these posts anyway if we carry on like this.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> Oh... neither of those are problems because neither of them are true. You have insulted most of the posters here in generally sweeping insults aimed at the masses rather than individualizing them. And you have absolutely not backed up a single word you have said. In fact - in multiple threads - I have seen people ask you a direct question and you will directly reply... with a comment that has nothing to do with the question. These are both verifiable. Anyone can look up your history of posts and see how I am right.
> 
> And, believe me, I'm not worried about a neg rep from you. One - your rep is so bad it might actually increase my rep at this point. Two - is you're on ignore so even if you did it wouldn't register. Three - you negging me is just a sign that I don't have my head totally stuffed into my own ass.
> 
> Any other easily debunkable or laughable things to say, sport?


More BS, I just happen to have different views about MMA than you (and some others) and you can't handle it. That's what this is about.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Can you guys take this to PM? Seriously, nobody wants to hear about reps/your personal argument when discussing a topic, that's why "off-topic" banter isn't allowed on the board.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

BOOM said:


> More BS, I just happen to have different views about MMA than you (and some others) and you can't handle it. That's what this is about.


:bored04:


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

M.C said:


> Can you guys take this to PM? Seriously, nobody wants to hear about reps/your personal argument when discussing a topic, that's why "off-topic" banter isn't allowed on the board.


I agree, I'm open to anyone who wants to whine about differing opinions on MMA and he said she said through PM.


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

Infractions will be handed out if more bickering continues. Take it to PM's. I won't shut the thread down but I will hand out infractions.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

no worries...I PM'd and so did BOOM. Hope it's all done and dusted.

*On topic*- so UFC only have a handful of Flyweights?


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Only 5 last time I checked. It's just not enough people for a division. Definitely not enough to give the belt any real credibility. I think the UFC pushed too far, too fast with 125. They should have concentrated on shoring up 135 and 145. Promoting them. If those divisions don't interest the casual fan how did they expect 125 to fly?


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

I think it's fair enough having a Flyweight division...but they pushed too soon to have the Title included, should've had a solid roster to ensure there would be enough contenders. Now they're in a StrikeForce kinda position, they have a champ but not enough proven contenders.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Having a division without a belt is not kosher to me. Every fighter wants to be the champion. To say that they are the best in the world. It's hard to do that if there is no belt in your division. Having no belt removes a lot of the drive and the sense of forward motion - the feeling of the fight having a point. Which doesn't matter to all of the fans but it would matter to the fighters.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

i mean run a few Flyweight fights and establish the division, may have helped if the UFC had signed more on before the title tournament. They started it all out with 4 Flyweights...not the best idea as there's been only one signing since then that I'm aware of.

It's a promising division, but more legwork should've been done to ensure there'll be enough fights before kicking off the tournament.

But I'm loving the flyweight action so far, made the PPV for me.


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