# ***OFFICIAL*** Rich Franklin vs. Cung Le Thread



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

*Middleweight bout: 185 pounds*
*Main event - Five round fight*


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Rich is too smart to just let Cung Le kick him all day. He'll close the gap and put a hurting on Cung Le. If this makes it past round 2 then Le is in even more danger as Franklins cardio is never in question, but Le's is.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

cdtcpl said:


> Rich is too smart to just let Cung Le kick him all day. He'll close the gap and put a hurting on Cung Le. If this makes it past round 2 then Le is in even more danger as Franklins cardio is never in question, but Le's is.


 I consider Frank Shamrock a very smart fighter too, so Franklin's main task will certainly be to close that distance asap. His cardio is indeed superior than Lee's by a lot.
Interesting match up.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I have Jim Carrey taking this.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Rauno said:


> I have Jim Carrey taking this.


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## rebonecrusher (Nov 21, 2011)

I`m expecting Franklin to be on Le from the start of the fight, under this pressure Le will eventually fold though I do think he will have his moments in the early going I don`t think he`ll be able to stop Franklin and eventually Franklin will wear him out.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

rebonecrusher said:


> I`m expecting Franklin to be on Le from the start of the fight, under this pressure Le will eventually fold though I do think he will have his moments in the early going I don`t think he`ll be able to stop Franklin and eventually Franklin will wear him out.


I fully expect Ace to come in and dominate early on and get the finish. Then Cung Le will talk about the injuries he battled going into the fight and how he took the fight because the UFC needed him.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> I consider Frank Shamrock a very smart fighter too, so Franklin's main task will certainly be to close that distance asap. His cardio is indeed superior than Lee's by a lot.
> Interesting match up.


I don't really consider Frank a smart fighter, I considered him a good to great fighter. Franklin really appears to adapt to his opponent on the fly rather than have a set game plan. 



> I`m expecting Franklin to be on Le from the start of the fight, under this pressure Le will eventually fold though I do think he will have his moments in the early going I don`t think he`ll be able to stop Franklin and eventually Franklin will wear him out.


Franklin does need to be on Le from the beginning because if Le has proven one thing, he doesn't take a minute or two to figure out his range, expect those first kicks he throws to land.


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## rul3z (Jun 27, 2010)

Rich Franklin TKO First Round


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Picking Cung Le.

It'll be a technical stand up war & Cung Le is the better technical striker[?].


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Trix said:


> Picking Cung Le.
> 
> It'll be a technical stand up war & Cung Le is the better technical striker[?].


For about 200 seconds or so he might be.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Trix said:


> Picking Cung Le.
> 
> It'll be a technical stand up war & Cung Le is the better technical striker[?].


Kicking wise, yes, but boxing wise, no. His boxing and boxing defense is sub-par. His clinch work, including knees to the body and dirty boxing, is almost non-existent. 

So striking wise he has one advantage, but for him it is a hell of an advantage.


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

i like cung les chances here, the first round or two will be exciting but i think rich is just too well rounded for cung le.. i would love to see cung le get a head kick KO


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Rich by 2nd round stoppage.


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

Hopefully after Rich wins he won't have to fight in the senior circuit anymore. So many good fights to make for him at 185.


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

I'll have to set my alarm to get up for this show for sure, but this fight will make it well worth it.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

OUSOONERSOU said:


> For about 200 seconds or so he might be.


Oh lawd. Cung Le is the new BJ Penn? 

Well, considering Franklin is getting up there in age himself I doubt his gas tank is much better than Cung Le's & could even things out.



cdtcpl said:


> Kicking wise, yes, but boxing wise, no. His boxing and boxing defense is sub-par. His clinch work, including knees to the body and dirty boxing, is almost non-existent.
> 
> So striking wise he has one advantage, but for him it is a hell of an advantage.


Cung Le doesn't try to box people though.

His whole style is staying at kicking range and making people pay when they try to get inside his kicks. If he stays away it doesn't matter so much if his boxing defense is lacking, his opponents may rarely be close enough to him to land a punch. 

His range is his defense. As long as he keeps ppl like Cote out of range -- his boxing defense is great.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Franklin takes this not only has he had a full training camp were he travelled to thailand to prepare for le's kicks he has had a camp and a half since he was mid camp got juggled before


Sent from my iPhone using VS Free


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Trix said:


> Cung Le doesn't try to box people though.
> 
> His whole style is staying at kicking range and making people pay when they try to get inside his kicks. If he stays away it doesn't matter so much if his boxing defense is lacking, his opponents may rarely be close enough to him to land a punch.
> 
> His range is his defense. As long as he keeps ppl like Cote out of range -- his boxing defense is great.


That is kind of my point, he is so dependent on keeping people at range that if he can't then he loses. Rich Franklin isn't the sort of guy who is just going to stay at range and get kicked, so unless Le has learned to put his hands up I fully expect him to go to sleep.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Cung's cardio is suspect, I think Rich finds his chin and finishes him.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Interesting both had noses blasted by Silvas before. They will have something in commom to talk about.:laugh:


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Cung Le via some form of Mortal Kombat fatality.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Cung Le via some form of Mortal Kombat fatality.


Keep dreamin'


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

Franklin TKO easily, I give Le a 20% chance of winning this.


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## evilappendix (Jan 4, 2007)

I went with Le, only because his striking is a touch better. I agree the further this fight goes, the more Ace will have the upper hand though.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Cung Le has better Striking, and I'm pretty sure he has better wrestling as well. What Franklin has is better Cardio, and a mind-boggling advantage in experience. Probably a marginally better ground game too.

Rich can try to tire Le out against the cage, but I don't think that will be as easy as people are making it out to be. He can try to stand with Le, in which case he will have a puncher's chance. Le's defence isn't great and he doesn't react well to being hit. All things considered that scenario still favors Le though.

I think it's close. I'm obviously in the minority though.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Rich seems to be in great shape. I'm guessing Le might have some luck on the feet until he fades and Franklin starts to turn it up. finishing him in a later round.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Rauno said:


> *Rich seems to be in great shape.* I'm guessing Le might have some luck on the feet until he fades and Franklin starts to turn it up. finishing him in a later round.


Rich always comes in to the fight in shape. Mr.Dependable when it comes to that.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

Le is so annoying in EA Sports MMA that I can never pick him to win.

Franklin by decision of late round TKO.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Only just realised that this event will be on tommorrow afternoon. UFC in the afternoon! Going to feel so weird compared to watching every event at 2-5am


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Only just realised that this event will be on tommorrow afternoon. UFC in the afternoon! Going to feel so weird compared to watching every event at 2-5am


It air live on FUEL at 8am for me.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

OUSOONERSOU said:


> It air live on FUEL at 8am for me.


Morning for me as well. Gonna be weird drinking coffee instead of beer while watching.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

HitOrGetHit said:


> Morning for me as well. Gonna be weird drinking coffee instead of beer while watching.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com App


It's gonna be wake and bake for me :smoke01:

I'm just happy I have weekends off.


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## JoeRashed (Jan 11, 2012)

I pick Rich, he's more well rounded and has a better cardio, but who knows
this times sloth is so great for me, it's gonna be at 4 pm after a local soccer match and before an international soccer matches, can't get any better


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Man they really have thrown Cung Le onto the wolves since he's joined UFC. Rich wins by being bigger and smarter(fight IQ) and having better cardio. He also the better all around MMA fighter.


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

For the very first time, I get to watch UFC at night instead of 8a.m in the morning. Awesome.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

OHKO said:


> For the very first time, I get to watch UFC at night instead of 8a.m in the morning. Awesome.


Yeah. Main card 4PM for me. Pretty awesome huh Leed (i see you lurking).


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Le will do well until he gasses. he might even pull off a win.


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

Rauno said:


> Yeah. Main card 4PM for me. Pretty awesome huh Leed (i see you lurking).


4PM? Nice!


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Come on you two. Save this abysmal card.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Come on Cung. Pull of the upset!


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I think Le is already gassing, lol.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Holy ****!!!


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Jesus ******* Christ! Who the **** saw that coming!?


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

ummmm... what?


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

There we go.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

But... Franklin defeats Wanderlei twice... and Wanderlei destroys Le... and Le KOs Franklin... I... it doesn't.... IMPOSSIBRU!!


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Wow, Rich left his hands don by his knees. What the **** was he doing.

Did I just hear Anik say..."an early candidate for KO of the year?

Does he not realize it is November?


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## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

Wow... I NEVER saw that coming!!
Le was pretty quick on that.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Wow, Rich left his hands don by his knees. What the **** was he doing.
> 
> Did I just hear Anik say..."an early candidate for KO of the year?
> 
> Does he not realize it is November?


couldve sworn he said late canidate


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Cung Le via some form of Mortal Kombat fatality.





OUSOONERSOU said:


> Keep dreamin'


What was that buddy?!

*FATALITY - CUNG LE WINS*


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Holy shit.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> couldve sworn he said late canidate


Ok, good. I'm watching on a TV without Tivo, I couldn't go back.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

The punch itself wasn't that bad but the way Franklin falls is just brutal.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I voted for Cung and then bet 100,000 credits against him. 

It's a good thing I'd never gamble with real money.


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## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

Those two, (kenny - mike) already have Le matching up with Anderson, lol.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

AlphaDawg said:


> The punch itself wasn't that bad but the way Franklin falls is just brutal.


The punch was just as bad. Hands down, slightly leaning back because of the kick he threw, chin exposed exactly to the side that the hook came. As perfect as a hook could be tbh.


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## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

Missed the card. Any way I can re-watch it?


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Rauno said:


> The punch was just as bad. Hands down, slightly leaning back because of the kick he threw, chin exposed exactly to the side the hook came. As perfect as a hook could be tbh.


It's not often you see guys get knocked out by a lead hook. But the placement and timing was perfect, like you said.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Tyson Fury said:


> Missed the card. Any way I can re-watch it?


Really wasn't the best card. I can throw you a link once it's uploaded to a site i use though.


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Wow, Cung Le was on fire tonight. That was a badass ko, it would have been knockout of the night probably with even five or six other knockouts on the card, but on the card we saw no contest.


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## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

Rauno said:


> Really wasn't the best card. I can throw you a link once it's uploaded to a site i use though.


Haha, that bad was it? Noticed theres a lot of decision victories. OK, i'll re-word it. Is there a way I can see HL of the Le/Franklin fight?


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

Chin depeletion.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Nice KO. Checked the kick, countered perfectly, slipped Rich's punch as he landed his own.

Up until that exchange I was thinking Le is going 50% on purpose, make Rich feel competitive striking. Either that or he was injured. Boom.


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## JM Barrie (Nov 10, 2012)

will there be a post fight conference


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

It breaks my heart to see my favorite fighter lose, but he was seriously asking to get knocked out there. You don't leave your hands down like that when you're facing a world class striker like Cung Le.

Idiot tactics by Franklin.


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## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

Is Jimi Manuwa vs Cung Le possible? That'll be a kickboxing exhibition if I ever saw one!


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Tyson Fury said:


> Is Jimi Manuwa vs Cung Le possible? That'll be a kickboxing exhibition if I ever saw one!


I don't think so. Unless Cung decides to go up in weigh for whatever reason.


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## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

Rauno said:


> I don't think so. Unless Cung decides to go up in weigh for whatever reason.


Paycheck? I don't know, just a random idea that popped in my head. Would be exciting.


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

No disrespect meant but Cung Le would look hidious at LHW, if anything he should be looking to slim down to WW.


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## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

gazh said:


> No disrespect meant but Cung Le would look hidious at LHW, if anything he should be looking to slim down to WW.


Could Manuwa drop down to a catchweight? Don't know too much about this dude but I have seen a few of fights and have been very impressed. 

I still need to see the highlights of the Franklin/Le fight.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

SM33 said:


> Nice KO. Checked the kick, countered perfectly, slipped Rich's punch as he landed his own.
> 
> Up until that exchange I was thinking Le is going 50% on purpose, make Rich feel competitive striking. Either that or he was injured. Boom.


I thought Le was kind of holding back as well and I guessed maybe to save energy, but I think that was a strategy. He is a feared kicker and few believe he would try to box with Rich. 

Le suggested at the end that was a lucky punch just to be to be humble, IMO. We can clearly see he had his eyes open and perfectly locked on Franklin's face during the whole time during that fatal exchange. The move of an expert. 


Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Canadian Psycho said:


> But... Franklin defeats Wanderlei twice... and Wanderlei destroys Le... and Le KOs Franklin... I... it doesn't.... IMPOSSIBRU!!


Wandy was getting his ass kicked by Le for a while that wasn't a one sided fight. 

I don't really know what is surprising about this result Le is the better striker and it was likely going to be on the feet for the most part.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

gazh said:


> Chin depeletion.


Hardly, Franklin always fights with his chin in the air and his hands low. He doesn't move his head, he's not a very good striker.


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## SlowGraffiti (Dec 29, 2007)




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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

osmium said:


> Wandy was getting his ass kicked by Le for a while that wasn't a one sided fight.
> 
> I don't really know what is surprising about this result Le is the better striker and it was likely going to be on the feet for the most part.


I think people are forgetting that Cung basically came out of retirement for the Silva fight and was using Wandy as a heavy bag for two rounds before he gassed.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

SlowGraffiti said:


>


Nasty. Checked the kick and followed with a perfectly based lead hook.


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## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

Oh poor Rich. Im cool with Le but hate to see Rich go down like that.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Sports_Nerd said:


> I think people are forgetting that Cung basically came out of retirement for the Silva fight and was using Wandy as a heavy bag for two rounds before he gassed.


I haven't forgotten how the fight went. Le obviously took the aforementioned two rounds, but I'd not call his final few seconds going at it with Wanderlei anything other than destruction. And while I agree that Le gassed terribly, I'd like to give Silva a shred of credit for bringing a fairly ferocious pace. 

T'was just a bit of MMA math for shits and giggles, lads. Nothing more.


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## legacy_gt (Nov 10, 2012)

*a young cung*

with no acting would have ruled his division. funny how the cung haters have said that cote and franklin were going to eat him for dinner. wandy was staggered by cung and getting schooled before cung gassed and got KO.

cung is an elite athlete. he's just older now and not as consistent because of his show biz.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Canadian Psycho said:


> I haven't forgotten how the fight went. Le obviously took the aforementioned two rounds, but I'd not call his final few seconds going at it with Wanderlei anything other than destruction. And while I agree that Le gassed terribly, I'd like to give Silva a shred of credit for bringing a fairly ferocious pace.
> 
> T'was just a bit of MMA math for shits and giggles, lads. Nothing more.


I wasn't speaking of you specifically, though admittedly that really wasn't clear from my post. But fans in general, not just of MMA, tend to have a recall bias when it comes to athletes they support.

I mean, Le obviously wasn't getting the credit he deserved before this fight, and I think one of the reasons for that is that Wanderlei's successful flurry against a gassed Le outshines the two rounds Le spent picking Wandy apart earlier in most fans' memories.

But it is in fact those two rounds that give a more accurate indication of Le's level of skill.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Damn that was disappointing for a Franklin fan. After Franklin landed that first combo in close, I thought he was a far superior striker. I figured it was only a matter of time until he opened up and got the ko/tko. Then the punch came.

Le looked very slow and flat footed. I don't think he was mentally ready for the fight. I feel like he almost was expecting to lose until he saw the opening.

Oh well. It will be interesting to see where Franklin goes from here. I hope he stays at 185. There are a lot of interesting matches for him.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Problem with watching the fights afterwards 




you can see how long the fight lasts in the video then figure out which round it ends. I wanted Cung to win since I enjoy his fighting style. People don't realize how talented of a striker he is with a collegiate wrestling background. Imagine if he was in his 20's. He'd be quicker and have way better conditioning. Not bad for an old man. Cung vs Bisping would be fun hopefully not against Stann although I could see the UFC matching them up. 

Cote and Franklin under his belt. Not bad at all.


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## boatoar (May 14, 2010)

I like both these guys quite a bit, but figured this would be Le's retirement bout. I was going to place a little wager on him before listening to him on the MMA Hour and talking about not being really that close to 100% with his foot and hearing how he'd probably pull out of the fight if it were not in China (don't remember if that line was specifically from the MMA hour interview though). I figured he'd look terrible and get taken down and look bad. So I took Franklin in a handful of parlays and paid the price. 

Good for Cung, not sure what's next for Rich. This has to be absolutely devastating for him. From the sounds of it, he really took the fight seriously and I cannot imagine him taking Cung lightly. 
Was somewhat shocked to see how low he left his hands there, the beauty of slow-mo replays shines again.

As most have said, a pretty lackluster card, although I did enjoy parts of Gomi/Danzig and Zhang/Tuck. I'll admit, I PVR'd it and watched it around 10am PST and was guilty of using the 30 second fast forward at many times during the main card.


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## boatoar (May 14, 2010)

No_Mercy said:


> Problem with watching the fights afterwards
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is so true, I remember downloading prelim fights individually that were capped from the UFC vault back before they were televised/on fb/youtube etc. and when opening the video to cover the part of my media player that showed the timer until it disappeared with my hands just to avoid this problem, haha. I was about 30% successful as I'd invariably move the mouse or do something else that would cause it to pop back up and let me know for example that it's a 18 min video and a guaranteed decision win. Knowing for sure there's no finish certainly takes some of the luster away from a bout.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

If Franklin is on the fence about retirement he should just retire. That was brutal.

Perhaps 1 more fight and go out on a win. But he has nothing left to prove. Not sure who to match him up with though.


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## Harness (Oct 3, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> Problem with watching the fights afterwards
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seriously, I wish Le was younger. He would be a force in the UFC and we wouldn't be talking about retirement in the same sentence. Such a shame. Incredible KO though!!


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Wanderlei defeats Cung Le.
Franklin defeats Wanderlei.
Cung Le defeats Franklin.

Classic.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Trix said:


> Wanderlei defeats Cung Le.
> Franklin defeats Wanderlei.
> Cung Le defeats Franklin.
> 
> Classic.


Funny isn't it, although Cung was beating Wandy. He's obviously got the skills, but he's really old. Franklin was setting a frantic pace and was going to wear him out eventually, but damn that was a nice counter.

Cung switched his game plan cuz he knew Franklin was timing his kicks and trying to land a counter left. Instead he waited for him to punch and countered with a right.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

Sports_Nerd said:


> But it is in fact those two rounds that give a more accurate indication of Le's level of skill.


His skill isn't the issue.

It's his gas tank and his ability to take damage.

The Wanderlei fight didn't prove anything imo, other than the fact that Silva can still KO anyone stupid enough to stand in front of him.

The Scott Smith fight, however, showed that Le doesn't have the chin or the conditioning to survive against heavy hitters, even exhausted, half dead heavy hitters with literally one tool in their toolbox. 

But what really bothered me about that fight was the Le was given the rematch. That was a pure case of `oh, the wrong guy won, do over!'

Where as it should have been, 'let's build Scott Smith up based on his nasty come from behind upset KO of Cung Le'. 

Instead, they gave Le a do-over and Smith lost all the well-earned momentum he had just gained from the biggest win of his career.


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## jaycalgary (Jun 19, 2008)

Poor Rich got knocked out 2livecrew style.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

RearNaked said:


> His skill isn't the issue.


Looked like the issue to me.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Man, brutal KO. The way Franklin fell down was just nasty. Same thing could have happened to Gomi, he was telegraphing kicks too while having his chin high up in the air.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

fuuuuuuck!

this fight cost me my bet.

**** you Cung Le! you owe me money!


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

RearNaked said:


> His skill isn't the issue.
> 
> It's his gas tank and his ability to take damage.
> 
> ...


Scott Smith is a can with horseshoes surgically implanted into his hands. There is nothing to build up the wrong guy won the first fight because the better fighter had a year and a half layoff.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

osmium said:


> Scott Smith is a can with horseshoes surgically implanted into his hands. There is nothing to build up the wrong guy won the first fight because the better fighter had a year and a half layoff.


If every fighter with an excuse for losing got a do-over, then where would we be?

It was purely because Smith was supposed to be an easy win for Cung, then Smith put in a career performance and shocked the world.

And Strikeforce, instead of rewarding Smith for performing well, punished him for disrupting their plans.


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