# what do you think about gracie



## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

I dont like him he act like he and his family are better than every one else in the ufc. he is an a** when he wins. Watch some of his fights and you will see that when ever he makes someone tap he keep the hold on untill the reff actualy pulls him off. In one match he made someone tap by armbar and after the match was over he went ahead and broke the guys arm. I was loving it when matt beat the crap out of him. I just wish that the match would have lasted a little longer. I was enjoying every second of it. what do you think?


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## Matt_Serra_Fan (Oct 15, 2006)

Which Gracie?


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

well actualy the whole family but Royce inparticular.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

meohmy said:


> be grateful,for without their skills this would not be a conversation or forum.if you were as bad as the gracies you'd be cocky to.likes matt's not


I dont mind the cockyness but it is the fact that royce would keep the submition hold on even after the fight was over that got me I mean did he really have to brake the guys arm after the match.


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## Matt_Serra_Fan (Oct 15, 2006)

Ya Royce is an ass sometimes but I agree that breaking his arm was totally uncalled for.


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

i mean, the Gracie's did bring BJJ to the world, and it is a know fact that the UFC wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the Gracie family. read the book 'no holds barred', you'll learn the whole history of MMA and how the Gracies are actually damn important. 

nowadays, they're useless... but back in the day, and in the early years of PRIDE, the Gracies where a force!

and then Sakuraba kicked all their asses! 

yay saku!!!


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Matt_Serra_Fan said:


> Ya Royce is an ass sometimes but I agree that breaking his arm was totally uncalled for.


Glad to see someone agree. There are alot of hard heads that will not accept the truth.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

pt447 said:


> i mean, the Gracie's did bring BJJ to the world, and it is a know fact that the UFC wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the Gracie family. read the book 'no holds barred', you'll learn the whole history of MMA and how the Gracies are actually damn important.
> 
> nowadays, they're useless... but back in the day, and in the early years of PRIDE, the Gracies where a force!
> 
> ...


hey I think they were important and I think they are great fighters but they act like jerks all of the time. as I said Holding submitions even after the fight was called is uncalled for.


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## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

meohmy said:


> Hey,he's a little bastard he had to prove a point you come in here you might get something hurt.it was a mental thing..dont believe for a second that r gracie is the best.they consider him the worst out odf the family.and they are a big influence still today in mma.But it's not the only way.but it aint bad either.if you can wrestle and do bjj very well you are a good fighter.


Royce Gracie the worst out of the family? Whatever Rush


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

asskicker said:


> Royce Gracie the worst out of the family? Whatever Rush


royce is the worst how? like attitude, or skill? cause, uh, have you ever seen the early UFC???


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

meohmy said:


> Hey,he's a little bastard he had to prove a point you come in here you might get something hurt.it was a mental thing..dont believe for a second that r gracie is the best.they consider him the worst out odf the family.and they are a big influence still today in mma.But it's not the only way.but it aint bad either.if you can wrestle and do bjj very well you are a good fighter.


he can prove his point without braking your arm well after the fight. Once a trainer ran into the ring after the fight because royce would not get off after the fight and big john almost hit gracie once because of that.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

pt447 said:


> royce is the worst how? like attitude, or skill? cause, uh, have you ever seen the early UFC???


I say it is about a tie in attitude. they always walk to the ring in that damn bunny hop line.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

meohmy said:


> I study with Relson Gracie BJJ.Rickson is his youngest brother the best by far.Royce was sent to the ufc to test the water and if he was beaten they could send Renzo or Rickson at the time.Which at that time were unbeatable.Sorry to let you down Royce fought Matt Hughes like a purple belt he was not prepared at all.Study up boys Royce is not listed in the top 10 fighters that the Gracie family ranks..Look it up


I just think matt was more well rounded stronger and royce underestimated him. ya dont see royce or anyone from his famliy asking for another match do ya.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

A legend, but his stuff ages horribly. He was the first to bring BJJ to a national level in the states, but man, he was absolutely clueless when he faced someone who actually knew something about BJJ. Then, he'd fight dirty in order to gain advantage. I respect his accomplishments, but I absolutely despise him as a person. Renzo is the only Gracie who seems somewhat normal.

Rickson is a myth. A guy who padded his record to obtain legendary status. It was a smart move, because it worked, but who the hell has Rickson Gracie beaten? Funaki? That's it.


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## Kameleon (Apr 20, 2006)

*I've never met Royce so I don't know what he is like as a person but from watching on TV, he looks like he can be an ass because he believes his fighting style is the best.*


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## brvheart (Aug 25, 2006)

Damone said:


> A legend, but his stuff ages horribly. He was the first to bring BJJ to a national level in the states, but man, he was absolutely clueless when he faced someone who actually knew something about BJJ. Then, he'd fight dirty in order to gain advantage. I respect his accomplishments, but I absolutely despise him as a person. Renzo is the only Gracie who seems somewhat normal.
> 
> Rickson is a myth. A guy who padded his record to obtain legendary status. It was a smart move, because it worked, but who the hell has Rickson Gracie beaten? Funaki? That's it.


1. HAve you met an talked with Royce? if not dont call him names...very nice person.

2. Rickson is the best period. His record is not padded. Do some research...then go to his training place and repeat what you just said about him and let him show you the new meaning of butt kicking....

3. If you watch UFC 1 Royce let go immediately on submissions...until glamrock acted he did not tapped and Royce was told to hold until the ref stopped it.


Fact is, if it was not for him and his family you would not have BJJ or MMA so show a little respect.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Who has Rickson beaten? Does beating Takada twice impress you that much?


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## FizzKick (Oct 12, 2006)

Whose arm did Royce break?


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## dudelove (Oct 20, 2006)

Who HAS BEAT HIM IN EITHER VALE TUDO PRIDE UFC OR K1??Rickson beat the best any challenged him to


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Is that why he avoided Sakuraba?


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## dudelove (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah after 500 mma fights sakuraba is so scary for someone 500-0..no more from you.thanks for playing and losing


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

It's like I logged on to Sherdog by mistake.


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## dudelove (Oct 20, 2006)

No pretty much like you were born blind,deaf and retarded.because u would have to be to think Rickson has never beaten anyone..


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## dudelove (Oct 20, 2006)

Understand thats for tickets and ppv.I don't know him either so i don't either way but i do know he "BUILT THE HOUSE" u gotta admit that but he don't own it that's for sure


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

FizzKick said:


> Whose arm did Royce break?


I dont know the guys name I just saw it on highlightes. for when he was fighting matt. the guy taped out because of an armbar and big john taped on gracie afew times then gracie really leaned back untill I saw his elbow pop then he finaly let go. Big john did not seem too happy about it.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

dudelove said:


> Understand thats for tickets and ppv.I don't know him either so i don't either way but i do know he "BUILT THE HOUSE" u gotta admit that but he don't own it that's for sure


thats for sure


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## dudelove (Oct 20, 2006)

He also held on to chokes in the day..Little different then.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

dudelove said:


> He also held on to chokes in the day..Little different then.


ya he did that alot too. and he would use his gi to choke people out thats like bringing a wepon into the ring. as I said a trainer ran into the ring once and was going to hit gracie because he would not let th choke go.


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## Pogo the Clown (Sep 21, 2006)

That was Jason DeLucia from UFC 2. From my understanding his arm didn't break. It looked that way and the announcers called it that way but right after the fight he got up and was perfectly fine. He even hugged Gracie and was laughing, ect so I don't think it was broken.


Pogo


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## brvheart (Aug 25, 2006)

americanfighter said:


> ya he did that alot too. and he would use his gi to choke people out thats like bringing a wepon into the ring. as I said a trainer ran into the ring once and was going to hit gracie because he would not let th choke go.


dude you dont have a clue....


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

brvheart said:


> dude you dont have a clue....


will you explain.


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## brvheart (Aug 25, 2006)

I did once man....read up half a dozen post....


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

brvheart said:


> I did once man....read up half a dozen post....


What are you trying to tell me that 1 I am disrespecting him or something. Or are you telling me that ufc 1 is the gracie fight you watched.
If you read my posts I think that he and his family played a huge part in the ufc.and I think that he is a great fighter. He proboly is a nice person. I just dont like the the way that he would choke people out with his gi, the way always holds on to submitions even after the fight is called, the way he talks about him being better than everyoneelse in the ufc, and finaly a true martialartest never argues about what the best style is.

Now in ufc 1 he let go of his hold but in almost every other ufc fight he kept the hold on for an extra copple of seconds.


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## You Are a Clown (Aug 29, 2006)

every martial artist thinks there style is the best or why would they train in that style makes no sense to train in one that you dont believe is the best and he kept holding on to things because people would tap and act like they didnt so they could get out of the sub and continue fighting so he held on until the ref would stop him


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## lilpuncher (Oct 12, 2006)

I havent really been a big fan of Gracie. He is/was good but his onscreen/on tv appearence is horrid. They guy walks around like he is the best and there is no other style better.IM talking about Royce. I guess it is just confidence, at one point he only had like 11 minutes total fight time in the cage. So there is no doubt that he did do something, but I highly doubt any one could seriously say that if there was no Royce there would be no UFC. Thats insane. That would be like saying there wouldnt be basket ball in Jordan didnt play, no boxing w/out Ali or Tyson, no foot ball with out Montana, or even no soccer with out Palee. Sure Royce did a great deal for this sport in America but he sure as hell didnt do it alone. And it is more than likely that MMA would have of blown up like it did wether or not Royce fought here. BJJ would most likely be a diferent story. But Royce is no god of MMA and his style though very effective is not the best style and Royce does act like an ass when he is on tv.


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## brvheart (Aug 25, 2006)

americanfighter said:


> What are you trying to tell me that 1 I am disrespecting him or something. Or are you telling me that ufc 1 is the gracie fight you watched.
> If you read my posts I think that he and his family played a huge part in the ufc.and I think that he is a great fighter. He proboly is a nice person. I just dont like the the way that he would choke people out with his gi, the way always holds on to submitions even after the fight is called, the way he talks about him being better than everyoneelse in the ufc, and finaly a true martialartest never argues about what the best style is.
> 
> Now in ufc 1 he let go of his hold but in almost every other ufc fight he kept the hold on for an extra copple of seconds.


You proved my point, he let go in the first UFC and almost lost because he let go, from then on Art Davie and co said to hold the hold until the ref stops the fight so that everyone is clear that the fight is over.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Rickson = Golden Boy
Royce = Black Sheep
Renzo = Smart one
Daniel = Big one

There are so many. Royce is a jerk, but the Gracie family is, on the whole, very respectful to their opponents. (While still maintaining that their style is better.)


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## Mr. Bungle (Oct 17, 2006)

Every single fighter holds a submission until the ref calls the tap out so what the phuck are you talking about?

You know something, you're one of these new breed of fans that is too stupid to understand & respect the contribution that the Gracie family has made to the sport. You idolize tools like Matt Hughes , Tito Ortiz and Rich Franklin who have contributed little except to line the pockets of Dana White by fighting green or past their prime fighters. People like you think Tito's antics and Hughes' prick attitude make them "badass" but it doesn't, it's a weak mans imitation of strength. 

Why dont you go watch TNA or WWE because that's more your speed...you obviously aren't capable of grasping the history and the artistry behind a real sport. All you want is cheap thrills and "killer entrance music".

You're a loser and your opinions are worthless.


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## AtomDanger (Oct 7, 2006)

americanfighter said:


> I dont like him he act like he and his family are better than every one else in the ufc. he is an a** when he wins. Watch some of his fights and you will see that when ever he makes someone tap he keep the hold on untill the reff actualy pulls him off. In one match he made someone tap by armbar and after the match was over he went ahead and broke the guys arm. I was loving it when matt beat the crap out of him. I just wish that the match would have lasted a little longer. I was enjoying every second of it. what do you think?



Well, by Gracie you mean Royce.
and he does that for a reason, was is the Shamrock fight???
He was tapping and the ref didn't see it and Royce had already let off and they had to keep going.


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## AtomDanger (Oct 7, 2006)

Also, I think he would have beaten and still would beat Matt Hughes if it were old rules, and maybe not even all of them, just no rounds.

Fights shouldn't be stopped unless someones asleep or asking it to be stopped.


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## UFC (Oct 13, 2006)

dudelove said:


> Understand thats for tickets and ppv.I don't know him either so i don't either way but i do know he "BUILT THE HOUSE" u gotta admit that but he don't own it that's for sure


lol, its more like "dis my house, I build it" with his broken **** engish, it was good too see matt hughes kick th shit outa gracie, notice how no other gracie ever fought in the UFC again after royce got hs ass kicked by shamrock. gracies suck, i hope frank goes on a killing spree and starts ****in up more of them.


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## AtomDanger (Oct 7, 2006)

UFC said:


> lol, its more like "dis my house, I build it" with his broken **** engish, it was good too see matt hughes kick th shit outa gracie, notice how no other gracie ever fought in the UFC again after royce got hs ass kicked by shamrock. gracies suck, i hope frank goes on a killing spree and starts ****in up more of them.



So..... When did Royce get his ass kicked by Shamrock? lol


and **** english? Classy with the racial comments!

You ignorant MMA fans should have more respect, the Gracies STARTED UFC, and MMA in the states wouldn't be where it is right now without them.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

You Are a Clown said:


> every martial artist thinks there style is the best or why would they train in that style makes no sense to train in one that you dont believe is the best and he kept holding on to things because people would tap and act like they didnt so they could get out of the sub and continue fighting so he held on until the ref would stop him


one there is a diferance between beliving your style is better and shouting it every. I said a true martailartest never argues about styles. two that only happened in ufc one he wont get off untill he feels like it even if the reff tells him to get off. Great example is when he broke the guys arm after he was told to get off.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

brvheart said:


> You proved my point, he let go in the first UFC and almost lost because he let go, from then on Art Davie and co said to hold the hold until the ref stops the fight so that everyone is clear that the fight is over.


 did he realy have to brake the guys arm 5 seconds after the fightin. In every other match he wont stop even when the reff tells him to do so. I dont know what the matter with you is but would try to get royce of and it was clear that the fight was over but royce would keep the hold on for atleast 5 or 6 seconds after the fight.


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## AtomDanger (Oct 7, 2006)

americanfighter said:


> did he realy have to brake the guys arm 5 seconds after the fightin. In every other match he wont stop even when the reff tells him to do so. I dont know what the matter with you is but would try to get royce of and it was clear that the fight was over but royce would keep the hold on for atleast 5 or 6 seconds after the fight.



5 or 6 seconds? lmao
Doubtfull, really... Prove it?

I've seen him hold on for maybe 1 or 2 seconds until the ref really had to tell him, but i have never seen him hold for 5 or 6 seconds


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

AtomDanger said:


> Well, by Gracie you mean Royce.
> and he does that for a reason, was is the Shamrock fight???
> He was tapping and the ref didn't see it and Royce had already let off and they had to keep going.


no its every fight and the ref tells him to get off but he dose not


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

AtomDanger said:


> 5 or 6 seconds? lmao
> Doubtfull, really... Prove it?
> 
> I've seen him hold on for maybe 1 or 2 seconds until the ref really had to tell him, but i have never seen him hold for 5 or 6 seconds


the reff was hitting royce in the back and he still would not get off. and 5or6 in that one particular fight i was talking about. every other he holds it 1to2 sconds even after the reff hits him and tellshi its over.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

And for every one out there that thinks I dont respect him read my past posts and you will see that I respect him. I think he is a great fighter. and I think he changed the ufc forever. But I dont like his atitude and I dont like the way he would keep holds on after the fight was over and after the reff told im to get off. read all of my posts before you talk bad about me.


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## brvheart (Aug 25, 2006)

1. he DID NOT DeLucia's arm I am guessing this is the fight that has caused you all this trama, anger and resentment)
2. if in the heat of the battle he holds for a second longer than a tap out/ref stoppage....big deal that is still pretty good reaction time


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

*Gracie Jiu Jitsu*

...pt447...Good Point. My sentiments exactly. The Gracie's showed the world how clueless they were about Jiu Jitsu. In 1993 He & Ken Shamrock started the whole thing. All do respect for the Gracie style Jiu Jitsu. Royce Gracie (at the time), had an unbeatable Jiu Jitsu techinque. It was sad seeing Matt destroy him...but it proves how much more well-rounded fighters have become today.

Royce Gracie...UFC HALL OF FAME


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## hamilali (Oct 18, 2006)

We wouldnt be sitting here having this conversation if it werent for the Gracie family...... if he wants to be arrogant, fine, hes earnt it in my book.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

hamilali said:


> We wouldnt be sitting here having this conversation if it werent for the Gracie family...... if he wants to be arrogant, fine, hes earnt it in my book.


ya but arrogance will come back to bite you. 
Thanks for the input everyone.:thumbsup:


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## AtomDanger (Oct 7, 2006)

So you must not like ANY of the fighters that don't let right off?

Or when they are in the zone and a punch gets tossed after the round is over?
i mean, thats out of hand isnt it?


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## lilpuncher (Oct 12, 2006)

Mr. Bungle said:


> Every single fighter holds a submission until the ref calls the tap out so what the phuck are you talking about?
> 
> You know something, you're one of these new breed of fans that is too stupid to understand & respect the contribution that the Gracie family has made to the sport. You idolize tools like Matt Hughes , Tito Ortiz and Rich Franklin who have contributed little except to line the pockets of Dana White by fighting green or past their prime fighters. People like you think Tito's antics and Hughes' prick attitude make them "badass" but it doesn't, it's a weak mans imitation of strength.
> 
> ...


A new breed of MMA fan who suck and who opinions are worthless. Wow thats some pretty harsh words. But you know what I am for the most part a new fan of UFC and MMA in general. Im just glad that Im not that jaded asshole fan who wants and wishes the "good ol days" were back and think nothing of the fighters who fight now. Even though a good buch of them were/are trained by the fighter from "the good ol days". I guess I just jumped on the band wagon as it drove by. I think its just funny that you bag on ppl who like Matt Hughes, Tito Ortiz, Rich Franklin. Cause back in "the good ol days of the UFC" it was Royce Gracie, David 'Tank' Abbott, Ken Shamrock, Kimo Leopoldo, who other ppl made comments about you for liking them.Kinda like you just bagged on this "new breed of fan" for admiring current fighters. And for the record out of thoes three fighters you mentioned I really only root for one of them and it is not for his on tv antics. Its because his disipline in training. So why dont you stop your assuming shite about this "new breed of fan" cause I have done a decent bit on research and still continue to learn about the "good ol days" of UFC. And your long time hero Gracie is not shite, a great fighter none the less, but he is not the god of fighting, so get off your high horse jaded fan.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

The good old UFC days.

Ah, the days of Emmanuel Yarborough & Andy Anderson. 

Ah, those were the good old days. The days where Ken Shamrock & Dan Severn circled around each other for 30 minutes.


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## Mr. Bungle (Oct 17, 2006)

You people aren't intelligent enough to debate me and I guess that's why you make things up rather than respond to my valid points...you have no respect or understanding of the people who were responsible for molding and shaping the sport which you claim to love. The fighters you idolize are weak and could never compete on the world stage. They're records and careers are manufactured and engineered and they're chosen because they appeal to the largest demographic which makes the UFC the most money. They're paper champions who, for the most part, are pitted against opponents who are mediocre, green or way past their prime. The fact that you believe for a second that Tito Ortiz, Matt Hughes or Rich Franklin could be competitive against the best in the world is evidence that you're brainwashed slack jawed idiots


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## UFC (Oct 13, 2006)

AtomDanger said:


> So..... When did Royce get his ass kicked by Shamrock? lol
> 
> 
> and **** english? Classy with the racial comments!
> ...


when did shamrock kick gracies ass, wach th overtime round of his 2nd fight with gracie then look at gracies face after the fight and enlighten urself a littlbit guy


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## jesse danger (Oct 15, 2006)

UFC said:


> when did shamrock kick gracies ass, wach th overtime round of his 2nd fight with gracie then look at gracies face after the fight and enlighten urself a littlbit guy


but who won the fight.:laugh:


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## Split (Sep 28, 2006)

Mr. Bungle said:


> You people aren't intelligent enough to debate me and I guess that's why you make things up rather than respond to my valid points...you have no respect or understanding of the people who were responsible for molding and shaping the sport which you claim to love. The fighters you idolize are weak and could never compete on the world stage. They're records and careers are manufactured and engineered and they're chosen because they appeal to the largest demographic which makes the UFC the most money. They're paper champions who, for the most part, are pitted against opponents who are mediocre, green or way past their prime. The fact that you believe for a second that Tito Ortiz, Matt Hughes or Rich Franklin could be competitive against the best in the world is evidence that you're brainwashed slack jawed idiots


i think the theory that their carreers are "manufactured" is a bit farfetched... is there any UFC contenders that have been denied a fight with the champ just because in the event that the champ looses(and he should, since hes a "paper champion"), the new champ would not "appeal to the largest demographic"? for example, do u think anderson silva " appeals to the largest demographic?".. he doesnt even speak english ffs(or spanish, for that matter). and dont tell me anderson silva is a fighter in the "weak and could never compete on the world stage" class.. because he has fought elsewhere. Same for chuck liddell, even if u didnt mention him. He fought in Vale Tudo, Pride and he hasnt done horrible(in Pride, 1 loss to quinton jackson, who ended up being a contender for silva's belt). Matt Hughes has no real challenger in the world stage(aka pride btw.. ), since theres not even a weight class for him in Pride.. As for Tito, ill be honest, i dont know much about him, except that i dont find him that impressive today, but he was a few years ago. Yes, i do agree that a UFC champion is not going to be the best in his category in the world, but to say that they cant be competitive in the world...theres a limit to hating the UFC 

Back to the original topic, the Gracies should be damn arrogant, they made the concept..and today, they get beaten up, which is normal, just like it was normal for BJJ to win over any other martial art... others dont know wtf BJJ was, while BJJ knew the basics of striking... now that BJJ is known, its only natural that striking should win over plain techniques.. But its in their rights to be arrogant, if this was done in the 1500s, their would be a freaking throne above the UFC cage or the Pride ring, and rickson gracie would be sitting and observing while fedor would be in turtle position to let rickson's feet rest :laugh: (no i dont think rickson is a god, i think he sucks in mma)


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## Mr. Bungle (Oct 17, 2006)

I think that Rich Franklin hadn't lost a fight in 3 years and Dana White was starting to feel the heat from the growing number of people saying he was an overrated douche bag. It was time for him to lose so they brought in someone for him to lose to...and they didn't have look far.

Don't you find it odd that Silva can walk right through these UFC guys? Why do you think that is?

BECUASE THEY'RE NOT VERY GOOD!

Dummy


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## thebroken (Jul 11, 2006)

i think i know where royce is coming from... back in the days... people never believed in them.. they presuppose that brazilian ju-jitsu is a copy of ju-jitsu (japanese art -- or whatever you call it) so maybe that's the reason for their arrogance.. now BJJ is the most sought style in MMA (i might be mistaken for this) so he and his family did revolutionized the sport... made it more technical rather than it be just another "bar brawl" type of sport.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...The broken...great point.BBJ is one of the best if not the best forms of Martial Arts. Learning to take someone down is easier than knocking them out. Any brawl think about it, a guy is getting the crap beat out of him...suddenly he gets a takedown, then a Triangle choke and puts the guy to sleep...fight is over in seconds...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
close example: Tank Abbott vs. Don Frye in UFC Ultimate Ultimate 1996. Frye went toe to toe with Tank, Tank must have landed 10 or more flush shots to Frye's face & head. Frye's face looked like raw hamburger. Iron Chin kept Frye up, Tank slipped, Frye got on top, Tank rolled, Frye got the rear naked choke Submission win in 1:20 of the 1st round...that was unreal.


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## UFC (Oct 13, 2006)

jesse danger said:


> but who won the fight.:laugh:


lol...def.not gracie man.. all royce did that whole fight wus pull bottom gaurd and just lay on the matt th whole time...then once overtime came and they got stood up, shamrock busted up gracies face...it wus a draw, if there had ben judges ken shamrock would have won by decision...so pretty much shamrock won


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## urbanator (Oct 15, 2006)

*MMA has evolved*

Let's face it there have definitely been changes to the UFC 1 in the past to what it has become now.

1. In earlier UFC days the rules were still being defined. The whole concept was to determine which technique was "the best". Time limits were not clearly defined. Fighting styles were pure, crosstraining was minimal.

2. The Gracie family, proved that out of all the fighting stlyes, theirs was tops. Now-a-days any fighters who steps into the ring must cross train. 

3. Early in the UFC years, top fighters admitted that they had to learn how to grapple. Top fighters admitted that they had to learn how to grapple and learn submission.

4. Realize that if you were ever in a fight, your adrenaline is pumping, you submit someone, they tap, you release, but realize that your victory is in doubt. You get up and your opponent still wants to fight. WTF? The ref later assures you that you have won... The NEXT TIME around you will ensure yourself UNDOUBTEDLY of a victory and not wait for someone else to determine your fate. (the platform is set for Royce, as a result of his first UFC encounter vs Shamrock, that was the standard instilled in him)

5. UFC in the beginning, required you to win 4 fights in one night to be declared a UFC Champion........now one fight one night takes all.

6. Now-a-days money talks, if you have an attitude and can pull in the fans, you get the spot light (almost like WWF, for you younger guys WWE).

7. Fighters today are smarter, stronger because they need to be in this type of environment. Which to me is still great to watch, but let's not forget how we have come to this point.:thumbsup:


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## babalu97 (Oct 10, 2006)

UFC said:


> lol, its more like "dis my house, I build it" with his broken **** engish, it was good too see matt hughes kick th shit outa gracie, notice how no other gracie ever fought in the UFC again after royce got hs ass kicked by shamrock. gracies suck, i hope frank goes on a killing spree and starts ****in up more of them.


At least the excuse for his English is that he's from Brazil, and his native language is portuguese...way to be.


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## maxtheripper (Nov 18, 2006)

shramrock belted gracie in his rematch with him but i still respect gracie because he was right about shramrock pretendind he didnt tap


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## Ares (Nov 27, 2006)

Royce's fight against Kimo at UFC 3 is also a classic. He got his butt whipped for about 5 minutes and the only real technique Royce used was the, then legal, "Gracie Pony Tail Pull" (not to be confused with the "Keith Hackney Groin Shot"), before he armbarred Kimo.
Priceless.


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## Heggi (Nov 6, 2006)

americanfighter said:


> I dont like him he act like he and his family are better than every one else in the ufc. he is an a** when he wins. Watch some of his fights and you will see that when ever he makes someone tap he keep the hold on untill the reff actualy pulls him off. In one match he made someone tap by armbar and after the match was over he went ahead and broke the guys arm. I was loving it when matt beat the crap out of him. I just wish that the match would have lasted a little longer. I was enjoying every second of it. what do you think?


I cant remember that royce did that.. :dunno: 
broke someones arm?? w00t?


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## jamlena (Oct 15, 2006)

UFC said:


> lol, its more like "dis my house, I build it" with his broken **** engish, it was good too see matt hughes kick th shit outa gracie, notice how no other gracie ever fought in the UFC again after royce got hs ass kicked by shamrock. gracies suck, i hope frank goes on a killing spree and starts ****in up more of them.


That's pretty ignorant.
1. Spi* is a racial slur and you should be thrown off this site for using that word
2. Learn some Geography
3. Royce is Brazilian ( Portuguese speaking ) there is no Spanish heritage.
4. Shamrock never beat Gracie, wake up & smell the coffee
5. Matt Hughes beat up an old man...wow


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## TheSuplexor (Jun 2, 2006)

royce only kept the armbar because of what happened in the ken fight where he tapped and the ref missed it(he wanted to make sure it wouldn't happen again), do some research first....and royce seems like a real nice easy going guy...


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## TheSuplexor (Jun 2, 2006)

jamlena said:


> That's pretty ignorant.
> 1. Spi* is a racial slur and you should be thrown off this site for using that word
> 2. Learn some Geography
> 3. Royce is Brazilian ( Portuguese speaking ) there is no Spanish heritage.
> ...


WAOH FLIPPIN OWNED!!!!!! +1, ufc should be banned:thumbsup:


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## Conor.M (Nov 8, 2006)

jamlena said:


> That's pretty ignorant.
> 1. Spi* is a racial slur and you should be thrown off this site for using that word
> 2. Learn some Geography
> 3. Royce is Brazilian ( Portuguese speaking ) there is no Spanish heritage.
> ...


1. I'm an asshole.
2. They all look the same.
3. If your gonna talk shit in the Octagon it helps if you don't sound like Akmahd, the guy I call when my computer breaks down.
4. Shamrock beatdown Gracie in that fight, back at UFC 5 there were no judges so they called it a draw, after the fight Gracies right eye was completely swollen shut and bleeding everywhere...just bcus there were no judges back then to award Ken the decision doesn't take away from the fact that Gracie got his ass beat.
5. Gracie whas 39 when they fought, only six years older than Matt and 3 years older than Liddell is right now....that's not an old man...Couture was 42 when he was the LHW champion. Shamrock knocked out Kimo when he was 42 and atleast hung in there with Ortiz for 3 when he was 40. Anyway you cut it bro Gracie is just a skinny shit who knows BJJ, which worked back in they day when nobody knew JJ and he was going up against TKD Smith and Karate kid Delucia. Doesn't cut it in MMA anymore, especially against a top fighter like Hughes.

Gracies are punks, yes they pioneered BJJ and helped pioneer MMA, but they walk around talking shit and really can't beat anybody anymore...guys are too well-rounded nowadays and their "I'm a skinny brazilian who knows Jui-Jitsu" method doesn't cut it anymore. Good thing Sak beat em all down, a shoot wrestler! **** Rickson and his 400 record. Anybody can walk around and fight ametuar street fighters and kung-fu guys in dojos. Whos' the best guy Rickson beat in MMA, Takada..the pro wrestler???? Rickson's a ****in joke man, so are all the Gracies....only one who's somewut respectable his Renzo cus he actually fights real MMA fighters once in awhile (even though he loses) instead of fighting sumo wrestlers like Chad Rowen, lol yea your realy badass Royce you submitted a 400 pound sumo wrestler who's never won a fight and only purpose is to act as a spectacle punching bag and show how a little skinny shit can submit a big guy bcus of BJJ. Yea thats cool...we know, that wus ****in mindblowing bro back at UFC 1 but nowadays its called MMA, fight a real contendor, nobody cares anymore that you Gracies walk around to Kung-FU dojos and submit fat 46 year old Bruce Lee wannabees. Atleast Royce had the balls to finally step up and fight a real legit, top echelon MMA fighter at UFC 60....whe all saw wut happened there. I hope one day I can walk around after beating a bunch of bums and kids on the street and walk around like my boy Rickson there and talk about my "undefeated MMA record". lol.....**** the Gracies man they act like *****es in victory or defeat.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Well I agree with the first part of number 4.


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## x X CLoud X x (Oct 15, 2006)

americanfighter said:


> he can prove his point without braking your arm well after the fight. Once a trainer ran into the ring after the fight because royce would not get off after the fight and big john almost hit gracie once because of that.



Do you have a clip of this fight, and who did he fight against that this happened?

I totally agree with you, there is no need to hold a submission once the ref see's it, and especially breaking someones arm, thats another mans career your trying to end, and possibly ruin his life afterwards


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## cabby (Sep 15, 2006)

Obviously Royce was a badass in his time. Almost every champ is cocky here and there so I don't blame him for thinking highly of himself.


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## cabby (Sep 15, 2006)

x X CLoud X x said:


> Do you have a clip of this fight, and who did he fight against that this happened?
> 
> I totally agree with you, there is no need to hold a submission once the ref see's it, and especially breaking someones arm, thats another mans career your trying to end, and possibly ruin his life afterwards


I've seen that clip before and yeah its BS. But you gotta understand that this happened a long time ago and the UFC probably wasn't as strict about things like that. Now they would keep some money and suspend you probably.


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## spearsoldier (Sep 13, 2006)

I agree with the man who said that Shamrock won UFC5.

It was obvious, and if you dont believe me, watch it(the end, or you will start to sleep).

Look at Royce's face, and look at Shamrock's face.

And you can talk all you want about it being a draw, but if they had not instilled time limits, who would have won?

Royce transitioned from holding Shamrock down, to barely blocking Shamrock in over time. A couple more minutes, and Ken would have closed that eye, and taken a submission victory.

But of course, in the mind of Gracie nuthuggies "DIS is HIS HOUSE, HE BULD ID"


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## SuzukS (Nov 11, 2006)

Royce Gracie is a legend anyway, I think he can still come back to the UFC and win...


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## cabby (Sep 15, 2006)

SuzukS said:


> Royce Gracie is a legend anyway, I think he can still come back to the UFC and win...


He sure can but it wouldn't be anybody all that good


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## Conor.M (Nov 8, 2006)

he wouldn't beat any of the top 20 WW


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## Beeg (Nov 19, 2006)

With the Gracie "shampoo"....
UFC 3 - Gracie vs Kimo

The long tap the OP might have been talking about... 
UFC 1 - Gracie vs Gerard Gordeau


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## ozz525 (Oct 5, 2006)

americanfighter said:


> I dont mind the cockyness but it is the fact that royce would keep the submition hold on even after the fight was over that got me I mean did he really have to brake the guys arm after the match.


whos arm did he break back then the refs acted like they were blind so they did have to hold the sub longer


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## hbdale309 (Oct 15, 2006)

ozz525 said:


> whos arm did he break back then the refs acted like they were blind so they did have to hold the sub longer


Gracie broke jason delucia's arm at UFC 2. 
edit: Actually nevermind. I guess it just looked like he broke it.


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## a fire hydrant (Dec 2, 2006)

pt447 said:


> royce is the worst how? like attitude, or skill? cause, uh, have you ever seen the early UFC???



i think if you were to ask among the family members, most would agree that his bjj isn't the best of what is found in the family. but the dude has a big heart, u can't take away what he did in the early days...


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## jamlena (Oct 15, 2006)

Conor.M said:


> 5. Gracie whas 39 when they fought, only six years older than Matt


I realize this but you can't compare the physical shape & strength of Gracie to a Couture or Shamrock, Gracie just does not have the same physical capacity as those two.
Shamrock & Couture still look and train like they're 30 years old...


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## Randy GNP (Nov 24, 2006)

I don't care how good or bad he is (though he's clearly good) his attitude ruins it for me. He doesn't deserve to be a fighter in any professional league if he can't act like a profesional.


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## mrmyz (Nov 23, 2006)

americanfighter said:


> I dont like him he act like he and his family are better than every one else in the ufc. he is an a** when he wins. Watch some of his fights and you will see that when ever he makes someone tap he keep the hold on untill the reff actualy pulls him off. In one match he made someone tap by armbar and after the match was over he went ahead and broke the guys arm. I was loving it when matt beat the crap out of him. I just wish that the match would have lasted a little longer. I was enjoying every second of it. what do you think?


Not all the gracies are like that. Ive met renzo and he is one of the coolest nicest down to earth people youll ever meet. Ralph is a pretty cool guy to but I hear that the rest of them are ass holes. I know for sure that royce, royler and rorion are all ****s



> i mean, the Gracie's did bring BJJ to the world, and it is a know fact that the UFC wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the Gracie family. read the book 'no holds barred', you'll learn the whole history of MMA and how the Gracies are actually damn important.
> 
> nowadays, they're useless... but back in the day, and in the early years of PRIDE, the Gracies where a force!
> 
> ...


they didnt bring bjj to the world. BJJ is nothing new all the techniques they use are the same techniques youll find in different styles of jiu jitzu in japan. There system comes from japan they learned from the founder of kosen judo

in japan the gracies were always a joke. I remember reading in Kimuras biography about the time he fought helio gracie. His intention was to knock gracie out with ippon seionage but the floor was to soft so he would just throw his ass again and again. Then gracie got it into a ground fight and swore he was going to win and Kimura used a reverse uda gatame which jiu jitzu people named the kimora after him. Kimora said he felt three breaks when he applied the lock to gracie.


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## brave_turtle (Dec 3, 2006)

Gracies were good back in the days but saying Royce is the fighting god? Must be ignorant or litteraly Nuthugging. 

God as... 
1)Being the best in the world? 
2)Being the best ever? 
3)Being the one who created all?

1- He's not the best in the world right now, no need to argue.
2- Best ever is too large and is too hard to compare as sport progressed too much. We'll never have a clear answer because there is no way to have fighters from different eras fighting each other at their prime. 
3- Gracie's family has done alot but they weren't the only one.

*** And please stop flaming Dana because whitout Dana MMA wouldn't be the same thing as it is today. I think Dana is as much or even more important than the Gracie's family. I'm sure most people in this forum started watching MMA because of UFC and what Dana did.


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