# Should Athletic Commisions Regulate The Amount Of Weight A Fighter Can Cut?



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Me and Iron Man have been debating the need for a cruiserweight division in MMA in the 1 on 1 debate section.
(it can be found here if anyone wants a good read. Warning its long. http://www.mmaforum.com/debate-club/85052-create-cruiserweight-division.html#post1317158)

But it got me thinking of some of the extreme weight cuts that we have been seeing by some fighters. This left me wondering about the heath ramifications on a fighters body put on by the stress of losing so much weight. I wonder if a weigh in say a week before the official weigh ins would not be a good idea. Athletic commissions are supposed to protect the well being of fighters competing under there jurisdiction and fighters like Anthony Johnson are obviously not looking out for there well being by stressing there bodies out to such a high degree. I realize the commissions will sometimes refuse to allow a fighter to cut anymore weight but I wonder if it should ever be allowed to even get to that degree. This would also help to avoid nasty situations were fighters are unable to make weight after there opponent works so hard to do so. What do you guys think?

In the best interest of fighter safety should the weight a fighter is allowed to cut from be regulated by the commissions?


----------



## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

I voted yes but am unsure how they could regulate it. If the commission weighed the fighters a week earlier, guys would just start cutting earlier or end up cutting twice. Weighing them in on fight day again might work if you had to weigh within 10lbs of each other or something. Either way, I'd prefer fighters cut less weight no matter how it's achieved:thumbsup:


----------



## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

It's a great idea. But it's not possible.

The reality is that fighters are always going to cut as much as possible to get an edge. They try to regulate it in high school and collegiate wrestling, and it's not very effective. You can regulate based on body-fat percentage, but that's a huge give-and-take factor with adult males, especially professional athletes, where some are bound to be well below what is conventionally considered healthy just in general.

I think, as I do with head injuries, that the focus of the commission should be to do what it can: provide medical assistance and the best possible advice that they can to the fighters so that the fighters can do what they're going to do in a way that limits the possibility of serious or long term damage as much as possible.


----------



## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Yes if you miss weight more than once in a specific state you should not be allowed to compete in that weight class for a year IMO.


----------



## Kin (May 22, 2007)

I think that they should just do same-day weigh-ins. At first people would try to cut weight anyways, but that would be very ineffective since they would be really weak and dehydrated. The fighters that did so would be get messed up and possibly injured, but people would eventually wise up and skip the weight cutting altogether (or keep it to a minimum of a few pounds.)

Another alternative is the double weigh-in, which was almost instituted in Mass. You weigh in the day before and on the day of the fight, you must be within roughly 10 pounds (each weight class had some percentage that they were allowed to gain) of what you originally weighed. That way made it so that fighters could cut weight, but a very reasonable amount.

Either way, I believe that there would be a rash of injuries and health problems at first but people would eventually modify their rituals to match the rules until fighting at your own weight (more or less) became the norm. 

I voted yes.


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

I voted no and I think its just because it would be too difficult to regulate.


----------



## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

i say just weigh them before they walk down to the cage if they dont make weight have a filler waiting in the wings


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I don't think that is a good idea cause then you may have a dehydrated fighter who could easily get a concution. Though I'm not for day of weigh-ins I do agree that weight should be regulated. That is another problem that they do in FILA wrestling, no weight regulation!:thumbsdown:


----------



## Magog (Jan 20, 2008)

1
I agree it's a good idea to have someone regulate weight cutting to some degree.
2
I wouldn't trust the commision to tie it's own shoes at this point.

Which would leave the owners of fight companies to do so.

Dana stepped in and said he was never gonna book James Irving at 185 again. It's something. Not alot but something.


----------



## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

simple answer No Way

Cutting weight is part of the game, if a fighter can get into the octagon 15-20lb heavier than he weights in then thats down to precision conditioning to build yourself up for the fight, every fighter knows this and its up to then to make the weight and condition themselves to be peak for the fight.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I said no but i do agree with the following statement:



_RIVAL_ said:


> Yes if you miss weight more than once in a specific state you should not be allowed to compete in that weight class for a year IMO.


----------



## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Rauno said:


> I said no but i do agree with the following statement:


I think thats a little harsh for a single missed weight, but I think it should be applied in some format like 3 in a row or 2 out of the last 4 fights.


----------



## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

KillerShark1985 said:


> I think thats a little harsh for a single missed weight, but I think it should be applied in some format like 3 in a row or 2 out of the last 4 fights.


The quote is more than once.. I think it would level the playing field alot.


----------



## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

IronMan said:


> It's a great idea. But it's not possible.
> 
> The reality is that fighters are always going to cut as much as possible to get an edge. They try to regulate it in high school and collegiate wrestling, and it's not very effective. You can regulate based on body-fat percentage, but that's a huge give-and-take factor with adult males, especially professional athletes, where some are bound to be well below what is conventionally considered healthy just in general.
> 
> I think, as I do with head injuries, that the focus of the commission should be to do what it can: provide medical assistance and the best possible advice that they can to the fighters so that the fighters can do what they're going to do in a way that limits the possibility of serious or long term damage as much as possible.


I agree with all of this.


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well regulating weight cutting in high school and college wrestling has been effective to a degree. One example is that if you look at when they had a 118 weighclass back in the 90s, they were about the size that 141 pounders weigh today. I personally know guys that have cheated the system but they can only cheat it so far!:thumbsup:


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Voted for NO!

A fighter knows his own body better than anyone.

I mean, Thiago Alves for example. How many times people talked about him having to go up to 185, because he is cutting too much and it's affecting him.

And look. All it took was for him to change his diet, with help from a renowned expert, and now everything seems to be OK. He looked great.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

limba said:


> Voted for NO!
> 
> A fighter knows his own body better than anyone.
> 
> ...


You right all it took for him was to get caught for Diuretics, miss weight on multiple occasions and to look horrible the last time almost costing him his job. That isn't somebody knowing there body that is somebody trying to stretch the system as far as possible.


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Toxic said:


> You right all it took for him was to get caught for Diuretics, miss weight on multiple occasions and to look horrible the last time almost costing him his job. That isn't somebody knowing there body that is somebody trying to stretch the system as far as possible.


You're right.
He made terrible decisions in the past, that almost cost him his job.
And he got fined by his employer (UFC) for failing to do his job like he should have: make weight the right way, without affecting him in the fight, wich resulted in a bad UFC product, that fans didn't enjoy that much.

At the end of the day, when you draw the line, i think it was more the case of the UFC imposing its will about Alves doing a better weight cut. As far as we know, no Athletic Commision was involved in Alves' decision to finally make the right change.

Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to have the UFC hire some experts to do some routine checks on the fighters that are supposed to fight in up-coming events...to make sure that everything is allright.
Maybe one or two weeks ahead of the fights. idk..

Situations like Rumble Johnson missing weight by 6 lbs should never happen again. 
James Irvin looking horrible for his fight against Sakara was something that shouldn't have happened.
Or Sakara before the Rivera fight. 
It didn't feel too good for the fans that paid big money to come and see Sakara being forced to withdraw from the event. And the UFC wasn't that pleased either.


The UFC should be more than interested in having its fighters in top medical condition when it's time to fight.


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, Alves has had problems with weight cuts before and I think needs to find a better way at this. It is true that as far as we know Alves would've had to go up to middleweight if Dana White had decided to go through with his decision to not have Alves cut anymore. And yeah your idea to have experts come in is a good idea!:thumbsup:


----------



## Kin (May 22, 2007)

For those doubting the plausibility of moderating things...

Double weigh ins. It's that simple. You've got to be within x pounds on the second weigh in, or you get fined. People will be pissed at first or try to cut extra weight the day of, but that's just not feasible to do so without hurting your performance, so people will eventually give that up and BAM

Everyone's fighting at their actual weight class, and I don't have to spend any more time in the suana.


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Wouldn't those same reckless fighters try to do drastic weight cuts twice in a week? I don't like the extreme weight cutting and think that will lead to more deaths in MMA than actual fight trauma but I don't really have a solution either.


----------



## borama (Dec 18, 2010)

you cant stop someone wanting a weight advantage and a strength advantage, that said i do think it could be bad for their longtime health


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I said no.

I don't see it happening. It would be very hard to do. It would **** with the fighters camp and it could cause some fights not to happen. If you want to control a fighters walk-in weight they need to be weighed the night of.


----------



## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

Yeah, I think it is time to do it. I wouldn't have said so 5 years ago or even 2 years ago probably but guys are cutting more and more and it is getting to the point where health is going to get compromised.

As an MMA fighter their health is getting compromised already given how hard they train and getting, you know, punched in the face often but I think cutting 30 or 40 lbs compromising too far. It is an arbitrary line but it has to be drawn somewhere. I get uneasy when I hear about guys cutting more than 30 lbs.


----------



## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

I'd love to see it happen, don't like "bad weight cuts" affecting the same fighters over and over and would make for faster, more energetic fights.

However I just don't think it is feasible to implement in the slightest, so I went no. First and foremost sort judging.


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, for the first time Shields had weight cutting affect him. I do believe it is feasible for hte most part. However, I do agree that judging should be straightened out first!:thumbsup:


----------



## Galcian420 (Feb 2, 2010)

Kin said:


> For those doubting the plausibility of moderating things...
> 
> Double weigh ins. It's that simple. You've got to be within x pounds on the second weigh in, or you get fined. People will be pissed at first or try to cut extra weight the day of, but that's just not feasible to do so without hurting your performance, so people will eventually give that up and BAM
> 
> Everyone's fighting at their actual weight class, and I don't have to spend any more time in the suana.


This. Fighters should weigh what their weightclass is at the fight, not the night before so they can gain back X amount of pounds for advantage. I forget who he was fighting for that event, but I remember Tito cutting for weighins and seeing pictures of him at an All You can Buffet that same night, and came in at almost 220 pounds the next day for the fight. Stuff like that is ridiculous and completely de-legitimizes the sport as a whole.

IMO my perfect view of MMA is when fighters stay closer to their weightclass weight at all times and fight more often (5-7 times a year, up from the norm of 3-5).


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

That fight of Tito's was versus Frank Shamrock I believe. Also the agument is that day of weigh-ins provides too much chance of a dehydrated fighter going into the cage and getting knocked out more easily. That would be irresponible for an athletic commission to do!:thumbsdown:


----------



## Galcian420 (Feb 2, 2010)

Yes, yes it would. Hence why I agree with Kins "Double Weigh-ins" idea over singular fight-night weighins. I don't care how much the fighter cut, but they should still ******* fight at THEIR WEIGHTCLASS. I've always hated that part of weight-cutting, it's a farce, what is the point of all the spectacle of the weigh ins and emphasis that they made weight when most fighters are usually are much heavier when they actually fight. Absolutley retarded.

Personally I'd say 5lb max. Fight at 170, your allowed to come in on FN up to 176.


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Galcian420 said:


> This. Fighters should weigh what their weightclass is at the fight, not the night before so they can gain back X amount of pounds for advantage. I forget who he was fighting for that event, but I remember Tito cutting for weighins and seeing pictures of him at an All You can Buffet that same night, and came in at almost 220 pounds the next day for the fight. Stuff like that is ridiculous and completely de-legitimizes the sport as a whole.


pro boxing attempted to do this some time ago and had some disastrous results IIRC. guys just cut the weight anyway and attempted to gain as much as they could back in the few hours before they fought and guys came in dangerously dehydrated. deaths deligitimize the sport even more than a 24 hour period to rehydrate but that doesn't mean guys aren't willing to put themselves into that kind of danger anyway. 

also you really can't gain useful solid mass back from an all you can eat buffet in 24 hours. you'll get back electrolytes and water and some nutrients but your body can't process significant amounts of food mass into your system again that quickly, they won't gain fat or muscle. many fighters don't even eat the few hours before their fight regardless because food in your stomach often = upset stomach in a fight and dead weight in your digestive tract isn't all that helpful either.


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, though when college wrestling tried that it had the opposite results of what other weight cutting had. From like 1997 to 2000 guys could weigh-in the day before and when that happened three guys died. Also I agree that 24 hours isn't enough to gain a significant amount of muscle or fat, if they have an advantage it's because of the muscle and fat put on before the weight cut!:thumbsup:


----------



## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

M_D said:


> i say just weigh them before they walk down to the cage if they dont make weight have a filler waiting in the wings


That would be horrible and kill the sport. You couldn't bet on the fights because you never know who would fight and you would get some terrible fights as a result. How can you expect people to pay for fights if you don't know who's fighting.

I say everyone should have their weight checked four times a year (and drug tested) if you are 20 lbs over than you are banned from fighting in that weight class for a year.

Obviously this wouldn't apply to HW's.


----------



## mma_official (Feb 6, 2009)

This is a tough, complex issue. The answer is yes the commissions should restrict the amount a fighter can cut. However the mechanism for doing this is a little complicated. The only real way to control this is to do what Ohio did and put a same day weigh in provision in place. The commission doesn't use it very often (according to the director) but having it in place discourages fighters from making crazy cuts. If they do choose to cut a lot and they look weak the commission can make them reweigh the day of the fight. The fighter has to weigh something like no more than 7 lbs. more than they did the day of the official weigh in. This way the cut isn't as severe but you can't cut huge sums of weight. It also allows the commission the flexibility to look out for guys that appear to be struggling. 

Here is an article about it from WEC 43 http://mmajunkie.com/news/15954/same-day-weigh-ins-still-possible-for-next-weeks-wec-43-event.mma.


----------



## Relavate (Dec 21, 2010)

How the hell would they limit it? Thats my question, fighters come in one day at 210 the next day at 240 then the week after that at 180, they are never a steady weight.


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well I think they should be limited by an equation similar to what the high school and college regulations are for wrestling weight cutting. Except with day before weigh-ins they will probably be allowed to cut more weight. That has to do with the body mass index and stuff like that!:thumbsup:


----------



## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

no, its not that fighters cut too much its that they let themsleves go so much that they have to cut a lot of wieght. if anthony johnson actually kept in shape rather than let himself go in the "off season" he would make ww easy, just look at alves. then it comes down to improving your skills as a fighter than losing all this weight.


----------



## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

I voted yes and I say make weight cuts illegal altogether. Make weigh-ins a day before the fight, just before the fight and a day or two after the fight. If they gain more than a reasonable amount (two or three pounds max seems reasonable to me) disqualify them.

In theory: If this happens every division would be like the HW division where (almost) everybody fights at their natural weight which would then be around the max of the weight class.


----------



## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> I voted yes and I say make weight cuts illegal altogether. Make weigh-ins a day before the fight, just before the fight and a day or two after the fight. If they gain more than a reasonable amount (two or three pounds max seems reasonable to me) disqualify them.
> 
> In theory: If this happens every division would be like the HW division where (almost) everybody fights at their natural weight which would then be around the max of the weight class.


then undersized guys would be forced to fight in higher div. since they cant cut weight. in ww alone gsp,fitch,alves,johnson all would be mw fighters.

the wiegh ins thing is an idea that might work, until guys found a way to exploit it of course.:thumb02:


----------



## mma_official (Feb 6, 2009)

I think the biggest danger is at the amateur level. You have guys that are not particularly skilled making crazy cuts in weight. If they are not used to cutting it takes a huge toll on them. They aren't good to begin with; the get fatigued from cutting; their brain is swollen from dehydration. That is a scary combination. 

As an aside, I once saw a kid who had run for 4 hours in a sauna suit to make weight - that's akin to running a marathon with no water. He couldn't hold the pen to sign his license so he didn't fight anyway. Now that's dumb!


----------



## mma_official (Feb 6, 2009)

I've seen some crazy stuff. Guys taking diuretics, laxatives, ephedrine, amphetamines, you name it. I've seen guys wring all the water out of their body to make weight and then run out to their car and stick an IV in their arm. It's crazy! That's why all states should sanction and regulate amateur MMA, to help protect these kids.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

There was no option in the poll I could vote for. I say , *NO WEIGHT CUTTING*.

If I were God or Dana I would have a series of weigh ins through fight week with one on fight day as close to fight time as possible.

I would make it well known that anyone I even suspected might be trying to play games with their weight would never fight in the UFC again.

.....but that's just me... ask me about tattoos sometime.:confused05:


----------



## Ares Caesar (Aug 13, 2008)

I think its a simple answer to a very complex situation.

*SHOULD* they regulate the weight cut amount? YES.

Thats the easy part... the hard part;

*HOW* do they regulate the weight cut amount? I dont know.


The "how" is the complex part of the argument... I think most true MMA fans would prefer to have fighters fighting at the closest weight possible, but its still the "how" that is the issue, not the "should"


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, they definately need to regulate weight cutting. I agree that how they regulate him is a mystery. As I've said before part of the solution should be to taken from college wrestling weight regulation!:thumbsup:


----------

