# Charlie Brennenman released by UFC



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/10/2/3444012/ufc-charlie-brenneman-released-mma-news










One wrestler-boxer down, about 150 more to go.


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## duckyou666 (Mar 17, 2011)

Charlie Brenneman, while I liked him somewhat, he didn't belong in the UFC. All he has is Wrestling but he's not all that strong. Granted, I think the early stoppage loss wasn't the opportune time to cut him, but he was on his way out anyway.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Damn, back to being an Average Joe...


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Always thought it was kind of cool he won Average Joe and made it to the UFC.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Jesus really? The guy had two losses, one of which was a barn burner against Erik ******* Silva a guy they have so much confidence in they are putting him in against Fitch in an attempt to cut him as well.

It wasn't that long ago brennaman was derailed Rick story on a days notice.

Sent from my Desire HD using VerticalSports.Com App


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Don't use the word boxer and Charlie Brennenmen in the same sentence.

Time to see old glass chin get cracked by Ben Saunders in Bellator.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I would have liked to see him have a couple more fights before this.


Sent from my iPad using VerticalSports


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Life B Ez said:


> Jesus really? The guy had two losses, one of which was a barn burner against Erik ******* Silva a guy they have so much confidence in they are putting him in against Fitch in an attempt to cut him as well.
> 
> It wasn't that long ago brennaman was derailed Rick story on a days notice.
> 
> Sent from my Desire HD using VerticalSports.Com App


When you get stopped in the first round in 3 of your last 4 fights and are an otherwise boring and uninteresting mid level fighter, I don't see the shock and surprise that this guy is getting cut.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Roflcopter said:


> Don't use the word boxer and Charlie Brennenmen in the same sentence.
> 
> Time to see old glass chin get cracked by Ben Saunders in Bellator.


My point is all of these college boy wrestlers come into the ufc that think they can box as well as wrestle.

Brennenman, Hendricks, Ellenberger, Chad Mendes, etc, etc. They're all the same generic fighter with no flair or character of their own.

Thank god for the likes of Erick Silva, Carlos Condit and Nick Diaz to keep the WW division interesting.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

GrappleRetarded said:


> My point is all of these college boy wrestlers come into the ufc that think they can box as well as wrestle.
> 
> Brennenman, Hendricks, Ellenberger, Chad Mendes, etc, etc. They're all the same generic fighter with no flair or character of their own.
> 
> Thank god for the likes of Erick Silva, Carlos Condit and Nick Diaz to keep the WW division interesting.


So you just have a problem with wrestling then? It's like saying all these BJJ fighters think they can box because so,e of them stand. It's a terrible statement. You are talking about something that fighters from all disciplines do but are only singling out wrestling.

So when Condit gets out wrestled all night by GSP, can I say look at these generic scrapers coming to the UFC thinking they can wrestle too? 

And college boy wrestlers? That is talking about a boatload of Elite fighters. You can hate them all you want but they aren't going anywhere.

You just prefer strikers. It is painfully obvious.


Sent from my iPad using VerticalSports


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

They are not even remotely similar.

First of all Ellenberger wasn't even a high level wrestler in college.

He's a hyper experienced sprawl and brawler with dynamite punching power the dude nearly flattened Condit on his feet for God's sake.

Hendricks has unique skills with the single collar tie clinch and in fighting as well as a huge left hand as a backup to complement his wrestling skills.


And Chad Mendes just sucks. He's just an athletic negative point fighter. 



None of them are similar to the other.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

HitOrGetHit said:


> So you just have a problem with wrestling then? It's like saying all these BJJ fighters think they can box because so,e of them stand. It's a terrible statement. You are talking about something that fighters from all disciplines do but are only singling out wrestling.
> 
> So when Condit gets out wrestled all night by GSP, can I say look at these generic scrapers coming to the UFC thinking they can wrestle too?
> 
> ...


No, there are plenty of wrestlers I have admiration for. I'm a Cain Velasquez fan, when that guy wrestles, he also ****s you up on the ground. Jon Jones, Daniel Cormier, Randy Couture back in the day, Tito Ortiz, Benson Henderson, Dan Henderson.... I could go on. I'm a fan of all of those guys, and they are all wrestlers. The difference is they have character, flair, they all have their own unique traits which make them stand out as an MMA fighter.

Jon Jones with his sick trips and vicious elbows. Velasquez with his relentless, ruthless ground and pound, Ortiz with his elbows and GNP from the guard position, Randy's legendary clinch work and dirty boxing. They all have character, they all have flair.

I'm just sick to death of these faceless, bland wrestle-boxers jumping straight from college because MMA is the cool thing to do for youngsters thinking they're going to be champion some day. They have nothing that makes them stand out, nothing for me to root for, they're boring, generic and seem to be over populating the UFC roster. I'm just tired of them.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Roflcopter said:


> They are not even remotely similar.
> 
> First of all Ellenberger wasn't even a high level wrestler in college.
> 
> ...


Where did I ever say high level? I said college frat boy wrestlers.

Ellenberger and Hendricks are virtually the exact same fighter lulz. Two college boy wrestlers with limited boxing technique throwing hay-makers.

You could throw Koscheck in there too, but at least Josh has some flair and charisma at least.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Roflcopter said:


> They are not even remotely similar.
> 
> First of all Ellenberger wasn't even a high level wrestler in college.
> 
> ...


Yes he absolutely sucks, he's only consensus top five but he absolutely sucks.


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## RWCNT (Dec 16, 2010)

Basically all that MMA boils down to is boxing, muay thai, wrestling and brazilian jiu jitsu, with more of a judo influence in Japan. Everyone's using much the same tools, so ranting about "wrestler-boxers" is stupid and weird.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> No, there are plenty of wrestlers I have admiration for. I'm a Cain Velasquez fan, when that guy wrestles, he also ****s you up on the ground. Jon Jones, Daniel Cormier, Randy Couture back in the day, Tito Ortiz, Benson Henderson, Dan Henderson.... I could go on. I'm a fan of all of those guys, and they are all wrestlers. The difference is they have character, flair, they all have their own unique traits which make them stand out as an MMA fighter.
> 
> Jon Jones with his sick trips and vicious elbows. Velasquez with his relentless, ruthless ground and pound, Ortiz with his elbows and GNP from the guard position, Randy's legendary clinch work and dirty boxing. They all have character, they all have flair.
> 
> I'm just sick to death of these faceless, bland wrestle-boxers jumping straight from college because MMA is the cool thing to do for youngsters thinking they're going to be champion some day. They have nothing that makes them stand out, nothing for me to root for, they're boring, generic and seem to be over populating the UFC roster. I'm just tired of them.


I don't often agree with this guy, but I see where he's coming from on this.

There's a whole bunch of Koscheck the next generation fighters out there. Athletic wrestlers with a fast power double, a smothering top game. And punching power without much diversity.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Where did I ever say high level? I said college frat boy wrestlers.
> 
> Ellenberger and Hendricks are virtually the exact same fighter lulz. Two college boy wrestlers with limited boxing technique throwing hay-makers.
> 
> You could throw Koscheck in there too, but at least Josh has some flair and charisma at least.


Your ability to even process what you are watching is comical.

Typical Tapout shirt wearing obnoxious bar goer who claims to be a "UFC fan".




GrappleRetarded said:


> No, there are plenty of wrestlers I have admiration for. I'm a Cain Velasquez fan, when that guy wrestles, he also ****s you up on the ground. Jon Jones, Daniel Cormier, Randy Couture back in the day, Tito Ortiz, Benson Henderson, Dan Henderson.... I could go on. I'm a fan of all of those guys, and they are all wrestlers. The difference is they have character, flair, they all have their own unique traits which make them stand out as an MMA fighter.
> 
> Jon Jones with his sick trips and vicious elbows. Velasquez with his relentless, ruthless ground and pound, Ortiz with his elbows and GNP from the guard position, Randy's legendary clinch work and dirty boxing. They all have character, they all have flair.
> 
> I'm just sick to death of these faceless, bland wrestle-boxers jumping straight from college because MMA is the cool thing to do for youngsters thinking they're going to be champion some day. They have nothing that makes them stand out, nothing for me to root for, they're boring, generic and seem to be over populating the UFC roster. I'm just tired of them.


Except Randy Couture is nothing more than an early version of say...Mike Pierce, and Ortiz an early version of MANY current fighters.

If you are talking about Jon Jones and Cain Velasquez, they are probably different because they happen to be elite fighters.


Carlos Condit hardly has any unique skills, yet you act like he's some kind of Godsend for MMA.

Same with Erick Silva.

Wow! A really fast aggressive guy with good kicking technique, never seen this before!!


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

That gif is priceless. What on earth was he doing? He ran away from AJ and hugged the cage with his hands down. Then got easily booted in the face.\

Brenneman sucks.

Sucks for him, but as a fan I had no interest in his fights.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Roflcopter said:


> Your ability to even process what you are watching is comical.
> 
> Typical Tapout shirt wearing obnoxious bar goer who claims to be a "UFC fan".
> 
> ...


Your ability to make completely false and inaccurate assumptions on some ones personality based on an internet forum is comical.

A) We don't broadcast the UFC in bars in the UK. For 8 years I have watched almost every UFC event live in my living room from 3am onwards.

B)Tapout shirts are cringe

C)From your general posting behaviour, I'd have to assume that you're a 20 year old freak living in your mothers basement with little to no social interactivity. I bet my expert, online internet assumption is a damn sight more accurate that yours 

Now you're comparing Randy Couture to Mike Pierce and Tito Ortiz to many current level generic MMA fighters.

Now that is truly comical. Randy Couture is a multiple time champion and achieved greatness way past an athletes normal prime time years. He was a boss. Completely unique and an iconic MMA figure. Never mention Randy Couture in the same sentence as Mike Pierce ever again, thanks.

Then Tito, an extremely charismatic, entertaining champion who reigned for a long time in his division and signified the importance of ground and pound from the guard position. You're comparing him to average joes in current day UFC.... No.

Randy and Tito are hugely influential icons of this sport of whom paved the way for the current gen fighters.

Carlos Condit has 28 wins with 26 finishes. That's bad ass and makes him entirely unique. Dudes a killer.

Next you'll be saying Shogun Rua is one of the most over rated LHW's of all time and is a coward. Oh wait, you already did that in another thread.

Get out of your Moms basement, breathe in some fresh air and start living in the real world kid.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

If Mike Pierce fought in 2002, he probably would've been a world champion too. Even in the context of his prime, Randy's skillset was nothing spectacular.

Same goes for Tito...especially with Tito.

Also Jake Ellenberger has more knockouts than Carlos Condit, and was about a punch or two away from adding Condit to that list in a fight that should've been NO WORSE than a draw for Ellenberger.


Also Shogun sucks now.

No shit he's overrated. This isn't 2006 and the guy can barely beat Brandon Vera.


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## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

FINALLY! The only wins he had are from Fitching people, was terrible.

P.S. The fight wasn't an early stoppage, he dropped like 3 or 4 times.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> If Mike Pierce fought in 2002, he probably would've been a world champion too. Even in the context of his prime, Randy's skillset was nothing spectacular.
> 
> Same goes for Tito...especially with Tito.
> 
> ...


If Mike Pierce fought in 2002 he would be doing the same half assed training that they did in those years. He would be a part time tough man. 

I see what you are saying to a degree. Not even sure exactly what you guys are going back and forth about. But Randy had entertaining fights, Mike Pierce is a tough SOB but his fights are pretty uneventful. Thats where the difference is. 

Can't really compare eras like you are doing. Same goes for all sports. Everything has gotten bigger, faster, stronger. And 60 years from now this generation will look out of its league. If many of the guys that fight today fought then they would have had trouble finding fights. They would have been as one-dimensional as many of those fighters. He would be getting a grand a fight doing reservation shows in between the UFC cards that happened every 3 months. Sure if you could take 2012 Mike Pierce and magically tela-port him to 2002 he would have been a top WW.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

You are implying that Mike Pierce is a scrub athlete. Dude was a legit D1 collegiate wrestler and has a concrete chin.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Won't miss him.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Damn! Misses out on a decent payday at 151, now cut from the one company he can make big bucks in? tough break for Brennenman.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> My point is all of these college boy wrestlers come into the ufc that think they can box as well as wrestle...Hendricks, Ellenberger,


So this place is basically Sherdog, huh?

You lose ONE fight and you're an over rated garbage fighter?

Hendricks and Ellenberger are at the top of the division, the F*** are you smoking?


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

RearNaked said:


> So this place is basically Sherdog, huh?
> 
> You lose ONE fight and you're an over rated garbage fighter?
> 
> Hendricks and Ellenberger are at the top of the division, the F*** are you smoking?


He didnt say they were garbage or not at the top of the division - He said there all alike and all think they can box as well as they can wrestle...

Nothing was mentioned on there ability to win fights or there current position in the division...

I dont really enjoy watching GSP (Although i will admit, absence makes the heart grow fonder) But i still rate him as the best welterweight in the world and P4P top 3....


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

His last fight sure didn't help him.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

RearNaked said:


> So this place is basically Sherdog, huh?
> 
> You lose ONE fight and you're an over rated garbage fighter?
> 
> Hendricks and Ellenberger are at the top of the division, the F*** are you smoking?


Are you seeing things mate? Where did I ever say they were garbage fighters or call them over rated?

I never disputed that they weren't top welterweights, I said that they're boring generic wrestle-boxers with no flair or personality of their own.

The UFC is way over populated with them at the moment.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Are you seeing things mate? Where did I ever say they were garbage fighters or call them over rated?
> 
> I never disputed that they weren't top welterweights, I said that they're boring generic wrestle-boxers with no flair or personality of their own.
> 
> The UFC is way over populated with them at the moment.


Hendrick doesn't fit that mold at all. He's primarily a striker and he's one of the best at it in the division. He decapitates guys.

And if you don't like wrestling or boxing, what do you like?

You want everyone to do kung-fu and TKD?

Guys use wrestling and boxing because they're probably the two most effective, efficient styles of fighting on the planet.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> Jesus really? The guy had two losses, one of which was a barn burner against Erik ******* Silva a guy they have so much confidence in they are putting him in against Fitch in an attempt to cut him as well.
> 
> *It wasn't that long ago brennaman was derailed Rick story on a days notice.*


Notice how the UFC cut him anyway? That's why I support Jones decision and fighters who look out for themselves first and foremost. This shit is a business nothing personal.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

The reason he was cut is because he's boring. If an exciting dude has a bad performance, he'll probably get another chance. It's a TV show at the end of the day, and if the low level fighters are boring then there is no reason to have them around.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> The reason he was cut is because he's boring. If an exciting dude has a bad performance, he'll probably get another chance.


I know a certain Brit who got a 5th chance.


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## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

Rauno said:


> I know a certain Brit who got a 5th chance.


Because people find him an exciting fan favorite which was pretty much his point. 

After what he done to Story I have mounds of respect for this dude and would have liked to see him get another chance, I think he earned a bit of loyalty from the UFC. Hopefully they let him go just to get some wins in a lower show and then bring him back - they do that sometimes.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

RearNaked said:


> Hendrick doesn't fit that mold at all. He's primarily a striker and he's one of the best at it in the division. He decapitates guys.
> 
> And if you don't like wrestling or boxing, what do you like?
> 
> ...


Yea, I get that it's an effective style, I get that it works, I just find it boring.

Generic college boy wrestle-boxer drones throwing haymakers and shooting for power doubles every now and then. I just find them incredibly boring and bland.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

No offense GR, but there's entertainment to be found in 'personality' and 'flair' and it's called World Wrestling Entertainment. I can understand that say, Alan Belcher is much easier to market than say, Tim Boetsch, but at the end of the day what matters (or should) is who has what it takes to be at the top. Be it a wrestle-boxer, striker, BJJ fighter or a Judoka, what matters is skill and whether or not you can keep on winning. Not who has the most interesting personality.

Just my two cents of course.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Ari said:


> No offense GR, but there's entertainment to be found in 'personality' and 'flair' and it's called World Wrestling Entertainment. I can understand that say, Alan Belcher is much easier to market than say, Tim Boetsch, but at the end of the day what matters (or should) is who has what it takes to be at the top. Be it a wrestle-boxer, striker, BJJ fighter or a Judoka, what matters is skill and whether or not you can keep on winning. Not who has the most interesting personality.
> 
> Just my two cents of course.


When I said flair and personality, I meant directly related to their fighting style, not necesarily their actual real personality, lol. Doesn't really make sense, but it does in my head.

Condit for example. 28 wins, 26 finishes, berserker in the octagon, wicked guard skills, dynamic stand up. He's got that flair in the octagon which makes him stand out from the rest of the wrestle-boxer drones.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

GrappleRetarded said:


> When I said flair and personality, I meant directly related to their fighting style, not necesarily their actual real personality, lol. Doesn't really make sense, but it does in my head.
> 
> Condit for example. 28 wins, 26 finishes, berserker in the octagon, wicked guard skills, dynamic stand up. He's got that flair in the octagon which makes him stand out from the rest of the wrestle-boxer drones.


Ah, I see your point now.

I personally find each fighter in the UFC to be unique in their own way. You never know what's going to happen with Ellenberger. He puts on barnburners. Hendricks can end the fight at any moment with that left hand. Brenneman was relentless with his wrestling and I never saw him in a real boring fight. He's not the toughest guy that the UFC had, but he had his own style too nonetheless. Just my opinion though. Even if a few guys have the same style, you never know what's going to happen. It's MMA after all, and that's why I love this sport


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Yea, I get that it's an effective style, I get that it works, I just find it boring.
> 
> Generic college boy wrestle-boxer drones throwing haymakers and shooting for power doubles every now and then. I just find them incredibly boring and bland.


lol this is one of the silliest things I've ever read. How dare they throw punches and use takedowns. 

Oblique kicks and saltos only! Sew murch koolah ermagerd

On a sidenote I can't be the only person who laughs every time they see someone use the term 'college boy' as an insult.

****in college boy, think yer better than me? C'mon cleetus get the truck we got ourselves some city slicker college boy thinks he's better than us!


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

Ari said:


> Ah, I see your point now.
> 
> I personally find each fighter in the UFC to be unique in their own way. You never know what's going to happen with Ellenberger. He puts on barnburners. *Hendricks can end the fight at any moment with that left hand*. Brenneman was relentless with his wrestling and I never saw him in a real boring fight. He's not the toughest guy that the UFC had, but he had his own style too nonetheless. Just my opinion though. Even if a few guys have the same style, you never know what's going to happen. It's MMA after all, and that's why I love this sport


Can someone explain this one to me? I've seen him KO Fitch with big left but that's really about it. The TKO win over Amir was early, imo and then he tko'd Brenneman. Am I missing anything else other than his early WEC career?


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## Fedornumber1! (Jun 18, 2008)

Roflcopter said:


> Don't use the word boxer and Charlie Brennenmen in the same sentence.
> 
> Time to see old glass chin get cracked by Ben Saunders in Bellator.


Don't ya wish Saunders was good enough to compete in the ufc? His fights are so exciting!!

I once thought charlie would be a good addition, boy was I wrong


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> Jesus really? The guy had two losses


And people wonder why so many fighters fight safe/boring nowadays...

I won't miss him tho. lol


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Well, on the upside now he's got the chance to face competition he can beat.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

RearNaked said:


> lol this is one of the silliest things I've ever read. How dare they throw punches and use takedowns.
> 
> Oblique kicks and saltos only! Sew murch koolah ermagerd
> 
> ...


My point is that they aren't very technical when throwing punches and they aren't very good at boxing. These wrestle-boxers stand there throwing looping haymakers most of the time and throw random double legs out there and and really don't do any thing on the ground once they get it there.

The college boy thing, I've been to college myself, but that's besides the point. MMA is now the cool thing to do for these young kids. Lets train some MMA after studying because MMA is cool and that's what everyone else is doing nowadays! Then maybe I can join the UFC and throw looping hay makers and use my wrestling to shoot for doubles and stall on the ground when I get bored of throwing haymakers! Like every other college-kid wrestler does nowadays!

I just find it all very tedious, generic and boring, but obviously you find it all extremely exciting and can't seem to understand where I'm coming from, so have fun with it.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> My point is that they aren't very technical when throwing punches and they aren't very good at boxing. These wrestle-boxers stand there throwing looping haymakers most of the time and throw random double legs out there and and really don't do any thing on the ground once they get it there.
> 
> The college boy thing, I've been to college myself, but that's besides the point. MMA is now the cool thing to do for these young kids. Lets train some MMA after studying because MMA is cool and that's what everyone else is doing nowadays! Then maybe I can join the UFC and throw looping hay makers and use my wrestling to shoot for doubles and stall on the ground when I get bored of throwing haymakers! Like every other college-kid wrestler does nowadays!
> 
> I just find it all very tedious, generic and boring, but obviously you find it all extremely exciting and can't seem to understand where I'm coming from, so have fun with it.


The thing I don't understand about your argument, is this.

Obviously we're limited this to 170 division because that's where all the guys you called out compete.

What else is there @ 170? There are no flashy guys in that division. 

The champion is a wrestler primarily who will lie on any striker that comes at him for 5 rounds and use underpowered but quite accurate striking to touch up ground fighters for 5 rounds.

We have Condit, who it's hard to classify since he's been a killer his whole career, but after his last fight, who knows what to expect from him?

We had Diaz who is suspended and really the only interesting fighter @ 170.

Then we have a bunch of guys Koscheck, T. Silva, Fitch, Shields, Hardy who all got destroyed by the champion at least once each and will likely never get another title shot.

Then we have a sea of wrestlers because anyone without the wrestling credentials to think they can deal with GSP have left the division. 

You need a wrestling base to even have a hope of beating GSP, but if you come at him with wrestling he just jabs you to death instead. 

These guys you're calling out all have the correct style to beat GSP as he can't just lie on them, and if he stands with them he runs the risk of eating the ONE BIG PUNCH that the Serra fight proved is all that's needed.

Strikers have tried @ 170 and they get laid on by either Kos, Fitch or GSP depending how high they work their way up and can't take the title. 

The only way to do it is to be able to stuff the takedown and land the big punch. GSP is too careful to fall for anything else.

I just don't see what other option there is @ 170 than relying on good wrestling and one shot KO power to have a (slim) hope of even beating GSP.

You sound a lot like me when Sean Sherk was coming up at LW and everyone was trying to tell me how awesome he was, when I could recognize his great guard passing and top control, but just found him incredibly boring. The point being, he TRIED to be exciting and mix it up a bit and he got KTFO'd for his troubles. Everyone has styles they find boring, but in this case, you're calling out the wrong guys. 

You want more exciting guys at WW? Blame GSP. He cleared out the division. Or blame Condit, he stopped the one guy who probably could have beat GSP by exploiting refereeing/judging ignorance to cheat him out of a title shot (I'm still waiting for the warning, point reduction and disqualification for 'timidity' that Condit should have suffered in that fight, as if you read the unified rules, that is a foul, not just 'good game planning).


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

> *Recently released Charlie Brenneman determined to fight his way back to UFC*
> 
> Charlie Brenneman is down, but he's not out.
> 
> ...


Source: MMAfighting


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

RearNaked said:


> The champion is a wrestler primarily who will lie on any striker that comes at him for 5 rounds and use underpowered but quite accurate striking to touch up ground fighters for 5 rounds.


You are aware he dropped Alves and had two very tight submissions on Dan Hardy right?

Outside of that he hasn't fought any striker's. He demolished Fitch standing, he pummeled BJ on the ground, he destroyed Koscheck's eye, and the only bad fight he's had was against Jake Shields which was a stand up affair where he got poked in the eye a million times.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> You are aware he dropped Alves and had two very tight submissions on Dan Hardy right?
> 
> Outside of that he hasn't fought any striker's. He demolished Fitch standing, he pummeled BJ on the ground, he destroyed Koscheck's eye, and the only bad fight he's had was against Jake Shields which was a stand up affair where he got poked in the eye a million times.


He had the kimura set perfectly on Hardy to get a submission, but opted instead not to go for the finish for fear of giving up the position.

If Nick Diaz had that kimura, he would have broken Hardy's arm. 

You can even see after the fight, he says to Hardy 'I didn't want to break your arm'


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Brennenman gets the chop...but we're still stuck with Shane Roller?.....craziness!


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

All these guys are prelim fighters so Im not too pushed to care when they get cut or if they stay. Everyne starts as a prelim fighter and works their way up. If I dont see them due to PPV not shwing their fight, if they are good enough Ill see them eventually. If not, they get cut.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

RearNaked said:


> The thing I don't understand about your argument, is this.
> 
> Obviously we're limited this to 170 division because that's where all the guys you called out compete.
> 
> ...


I don't see what's hard to understand about my argument. I don't like generic wrestle-boxers who aren't really elite in any area of mixed martial arts. It bores me. There is no argument here, I just think that they suck and I'm not interested in watching many of them fight.

Who says wrestle-boxers are the answer to GSP? Kos is one of the better wrestle-boxers in the division and he got molested with a jab for five rounds.

All of these wrestle-boxer drones simply aren't as technical as GSP standing and aren't as good at wrestling as him (in an MMA scenario).

The one type of opponent we haven't seen GSP deal with is an elite striker with a sick ground game. BJ Penn you say. One of the best top games in the sport, no doubt, but his bottom games leave a lot to be desired.

Guys like Carlos Condit, Erick Silva, Nick Diaz I feel are the most stylistically threatening opponents for GSP, not the influx of wrestle-boxers who aren't better than GSP in any actual area. You need guys who are better than GSP in two areas. The striking and BJJ, the guys I mentioned earlier fit that mould. I think GSP has proved time and time again in his career that wrestlers are not the answer.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Erick Silva


Ah, you're one of THOSE. I see.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

RearNaked said:


> Ah, you're one of THOSE. I see.


Fantastic response to the argument I presented to you.

Ah, you're one of THOSE. I see.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Woodenhead said:


> And people wonder why so many fighters fight safe/boring nowadays...
> 
> I won't miss him tho. lol



Well safe/boring got him cut. He had lost twice and was an exciting fighter he wouldn't of been cut. So I don't exactly see where it is smart to play the safe boring game.

But Brenneman just had little skill. He wasn't gong to develop any great striking. He was lucky to make it to the big leagues. He had to try and lay and pray because that was literally all he had. 

He is what he is. He had to scratch and dig to get to the UFC. Perhaps he finds a BJJ game while he is away and wins several in a row and makes it back as that underdog again. 

I agree fully with the UFC that an exciting fighter who puts it all out there should get a loss or 2 more leeway than a guy who is holding on for wins and sparks very little fan interest.

This thread right here is more excitement over Charlie than he has seen at any point in his UFC career.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Erick Silva is the real deal and will give Fitch a beating at 153.

He may not beat GSP but he will be a handful for anyone at WW.

I am one of THOSE guys for sure.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Fantastic response to the argument I presented to you.
> 
> Ah, you're one of THOSE. I see.


I just think it's funny that you don't like a bunch of 'college boys' (see: white boys) but you think the great brown hope who's won all of two UFC fights is going to magically get past Fitch, Kos, Pierce, Ellenberger, Hendricks, etc and even get a shot. 

His best win is against the very guy you're calling out in this thread 

Fitch by UD


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

RearNaked said:


> I just think it's funny that you don't like a bunch of 'college boys' (see: white boys) but you think the great brown hope who's won all of two UFC fights is going to magically get past Fitch, Kos, Pierce, Ellenberger, Hendricks, etc and even get a shot.
> 
> His best win is against the very guy you're calling out in this thread
> 
> Fitch by UD


Great brown hope? What the hell is that supposed to mean? You were associating the term "college boys" exclusively to white people? I sure as hell wasn't. Race has got NOTHING to do with this topic

Where did I label him as a great hope either? Do you read through posts and then make up stuff up on your own or some thing?

And why would it take some form of magic for him to get by wrestle-boxers like Hendricks and Pierce? His skillset causes problems for the wrestle-boxers of the division. He's proved to be very dangerous on his feet as well as on the ground, the wrestle-boxers are going to have a hard time smothering him down and even harder time trying to box with him.

I used Silva as an example, I didn't ever say I think he'd beat GSP. But I do think it's styles like the one Silva possesses which are most troublesome for GSP. GSP has already proved he can dispose of the top notch wrestlers. It's the guys with elite level striking and elite level BJJ and active guards that I feel are going to give him most problems.

You seem to be really offended and upset by criticsing these wrestle-boxers for some reason. I just find them boring and uninteresting, stop taking it so personal.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Great brown hope? What the hell is that supposed to mean?
> 
> Where did I label him as a great hope either? Do you read through posts and then make up stuff up on your own or some thing?
> 
> ...


I just think it's funny how you label like 6 white fighters as being boring, then go on to say Erick Silva is the future.

Kind of like the guys who hate Jon Jones, Phil Davis and Rashad Evans, then turn around and say Alex Gustaffson is the future.

It's equally ridiculous no matter which side you're on and equally transparent too.

And the reason I find it offensive and take it personally is I don't mind if someone wants to just come out and say 'I don't support white fighters' or 'I don't support black fighters' that's fine, just own up to it.

I just hate the p****-footing around on either side.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

RearNaked said:


> I just think it's funny how you label like 6 white fighters as being boring, then go on to say Erick Silva is the future.
> 
> Kind of like the guys who hate Jon Jones, Phil Davis and Rashad Evans, then turn around and say Alex Gustaffson is the future.
> 
> ...


Oh I see, so you're implying my posts are racially motivated now because I labelled Erick Silva as a stylistic threat to GSP.

Stop being so utterly ridiculous.

A) You're the one who associated the term "college boys" exclusively to white males. Not me.

B) I'm a young white male who has college education under my belt

C) You casually ignored the fact that along with Erick Silva, I also mentioned Carlos Condit and Nick Diaz. Both white males.

D) I'm really quite shocked at how you've tried to pull the race card on this entire debate.

I'm both shocked and appalled. You think that I'm a black guy hating on white fighters. This is both shocking and hilarious at the same time.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Oh I see, so you're implying my posts are racially motivated now because I labelled Erick Silva as a stylistic threat to GSP.
> 
> Stop being so utterly ridiculous.
> 
> ...


Nick Diaz and Condit are both Hispanic. 

And, no I don't think you're black necesarily, and I also don't think there's no such thing as self-hating white people. I, like you have been to college, so I've met literally hundreds of you guys.

But tbh I'll admit, I DID think you were Hispanic.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Hahahaha. Wow RearNaked, wow. 

Erick will beat GSP and Fitch.

and GrappleRetarded, i don't mean to be pedantic but Condit and Diaz are both Hispanic 

EDIT: RN beat me to it


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

RearNaked said:


> Nick Diaz and Condit are both Hispanic.
> 
> And, no I don't think you're black necesarily, and I also don't think there's no such thing as self-hating white people. I, like you have been to college, so I've met literally hundreds of you guys.
> 
> But tbh I'll admit, I DID think you were Hispanic.


I literally can not believe what I'm reading here. Reverse racist psychology, is that the tactic you're employing here?

Race has had NOTHING to do with this topic at hand, absolutely nothing. The only one who's acting suspiciously racist is you. I used the term "college boys" and you associated it to white males only. That is your problem, not mine.

Rashad Evans and Phil Davis I would also happily label as college wrestle-boxers too.

I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you have some serious underlying racial issues you need to speak to some one about. I hope no one else reading this thread thinks any of my posts were in any way racially motivated, because they weren't.

Edit: I'm really just a self hating white-British male with college education under my belt :confused03: :confused03:


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> I literally can not believe what I'm reading here. Reverse racist psychology, is that the tactic you're employing here?
> 
> Race has had NOTHING to do with this topic at hand, absolutely nothing. The only one who's acting suspiciously racist is you. I used the term "college boys" and you associated it to white males only. That is your problem, not mine.
> 
> ...


yes, there are no self hating white people... in Britain. Now it's my turn to be incredulous as that's actually a pretty well known thing in the UK (especially among the college educated class), where I grew up.

But a quick perusal of your recent post history shows you support Cain Velasquez, Nick Diaz, Carlos Condit, Erick Silva, Jose Aldo, Machida, JDS, Belfort, 

and that you think Cub Swanson looks like a 'rodent' and you don't like Charlie Brenneman, Jon Fitch, Jake Ellenberger, Johnny Hendricks, you think Clay Guida is a 'bitch', you call Chuck Liddel 'washed up', you imply that Mark Coleman, one of the greatest of all time sucks, you don't 'ever want to see Cole Konrad fight ever again.`

sorry for imagining things, but be honest, you've got a little bit of a Hispanic fetish... and you may not hate white people, but you don't seem to like many white fighters... 

The only white guys I can see you supporting are Bisping (who`s British, like you) and Volkman, who I also like and whom your support of kind of throws all my conspiracy theories right out the window. 

But I have to ask, how is Volkman good in your opinion since he`s basically all the things you hate MINUS the ability to throw a punch...

oh and Greg Jackson looks like 'a pelican' am I missing anyone out here?


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

Oh wait, got it.

British.
Bisping fan.
Doesn't like AMERICAN wrestlers.
Bisping KO'd by Henderson, decisioned by Sonnen.

Damn you Occam!!!!

The Hispanic fetish is just a red herring.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

RearNaked said:


> yes, there are no self hating white people... in Britain. Now it's my turn to be incredulous as that's actually a pretty well known thing in the UK (especially among the college educated class), where I grew up.
> 
> But a quick perusal of your recent post history shows you support Cain Velasquez, Nick Diaz, Carlos Condit, Erick Silva, Jose Aldo, Machida, JDS, Belfort,
> 
> ...


Holy mother of god, this is actually unreal. I'm literally speechless. Not only have you made up a bunch of absolute rubbish about me slagging off other fighters, but apparently I now have a hispanic fetish.

ROFL.

I don't support Erick Silva, I don't support Jose Aldo, I don't support Machida, I sure as hell don't support Junior Dos Santos and I don't support Vitor Belfort.

Where have you been getting this trash from? I don't support ANY of those fighters. You're basing my support and fandom of which fighter I have picked to win a fight? Picking a certain fighter(s) to win a fight doesn't mean I support or root for them. I couldn't care less if Erick Silva loses to Jon Fitch, I'm not even an Erick Silva fan for crying out loud and come fight time, I may even pop a bet on Jon Fitch to win.

I call Chuck Lidell washed up? What?! I've always been a Chuck Liddell fan, as well as a Randy Couture fan. Why are you just making up random things which make no sense? I called Clay Guida a bitch because he fought like a bitch against Gray Maynard. Gray Maynard, another white male who earned my approval on that night.

Mark Coleman does suck right now. He's terrible. How can that be perceived as any thing racially motivated? I can respect the fact how ever, that he WAS a great fighter in his time and era.

And what has Greg Jackson looking like a Pelican got to do with any thing? That was a light hearted joke and he does actually kinda look like one.

You've obviously got some serious underlying racial issues my friend.

I like people of all races and ethnicities. White, black, hispanic, asian, I couldn't care less where you're from, I'm happy to mix and interact with any one. As long as you're nice to me, I'll be nice back to you, that's the golden rule I follow in life.

I'm actually quite concerned about the state of your mental health and I'm truly shocked that you think my posts are racially motivated. I'd say you need some help mate.

And NO, I'm not a Michael Bisping fan.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> blah blah blah


look up I already figured it out


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

RearNaked said:


> look up I already figured it out


What a loon you are. Check my edit at the bottom of the post, I'm not a Michael Bisping fan and I, am a Dan Henderson fan you moron.










Back to being a white male with a secret hispanic fetish then.

And where the hell have I ever approved of Volkmann? I can't stand Volkmann. You're a nut job lad.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Back to being a white male with a secret hispanic fetish then.


Not so secret.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

RearNaked said:


> Not so secret.


Get help.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Yeah, this bickering stops with my post. *Get back to the topic and drag your personal issues to PM. *


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Rauno said:


> Yeah, this bickering stops with my post. *Get back to the topic and drag your personal issues to PM. *


I apologise for derailing the thread but racist trolls need to be put in their damn place.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Poor Brenneman. Not a bad fighter, but he seemed under sized and had a suspect chin. Or at least poor recovery rate.

I understand where you are coming from, GR. My whole problem is just grapple boxers in general. They screw themselves over. They get to the big show with those BJJ/wrestling abilities, and then when they learn a little bit of striking technique, they forget about what got them here. Koscheck is such a great MMA wrestler in my opinion, but he loves to fall back on his boxing and throw those big overhand rights and whatnot looking for a knock out of the night bonus. It drives me crazy because his double leg is sick. It's not bad to use that boxing of his from time to time, but he needs to remember that wrestling is his absolute strongest tool sometimes. He could potentially have less losses on his record if he did.

Maia is another example. He shouldn't have lost to Marquardt in my opinion, he's not a kick boxer. Throwing low kicks against a guy like Marquardt who hits hard and clearly had the better stand up was a bad idea. Maia also easily controlled Grove when they fought for the first two rounds, then he openly admitted after the fight that he wanted to test his stand up in the third. Grove wasn't exactly the best fighter in the world (considering he's not even in the UFC anymore), but he occasionally showed signs of brilliance. Maia still won, but that's not the point. If he's easily controlling Grove on the ground, why rock the boat? I believe Maia lost the third round on 2 of 3 judge's score cards. Needless to say, that was a gamble on his part. I'm just glad it didn't cost him an easy win.

Now that he's at 170, he may have the best BJJ in the division. I'm hoping he remembers that because now, he's not even at a size disadvantage like he was against some guys in the middleweight division.

End rant, I just wanted to say that ISS (improved striking syndrome) exists in MMA, haha.

Brenneman needs to work on his striking defense, and only strike to set up his take downs.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I'm a fan of Erick Silva, but what's with his hype? He knocks out two scrubs and submits Brenneman, who was winning the fight up until being submitted? Brenneman took Silva down on multiple occasions. Fitch is a different animal than Brenneman, who has only lost to GSP and by flash KO to Johny Hendricks. There is no empirical evidence to suggest that Erick Silva is going to beat Fitch.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Ari said:


> I'm a fan of Erick Silva, but what's with his hype? He knocks out two scrubs and submits Brenneman, who was winning the fight up until being submitted? Brenneman took Silva down on multiple occasions. Fitch is a different animal than Brenneman, who has only lost to GSP and by flash KO to Johny Hendricks. There is no empirical evidence to suggest that Erick Silva is going to beat Fitch.


Silva is a big athletic WW with solid TDD.

Fitch is good at dragging guys to the ground and keeping them there. But his TDs aren't explosive. He is actually a lot like Brenneman but is capable of throwing a couple kicks. 

Silva will stuff TDs and rough Fitch up on the feet.

Plus it is in Brazil. 

Silva wins that fight. All fighters start somewhere, just because he hasn't fought the elite yet doesn't mean he can't beat them. All the greats were there at one point too. Silva is going to wreck Fitch. UFC knows this. They don't want Fitch around the top 5 anymore. They are setting him up to get destroyed. They know what they are doing.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Silva is the slight favorite in that fight on the books.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Silva is the slight favorite in that fight on the books.


There is a nice place to make some money. Not saying Fitch will win for sure, but hard to pass up Jon Fitch as an underdog. Wouldn't be the first explosive hype train derailed by fitching on the tracks.

Sent from my Desire HD using VerticalSports.Com App


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

GOOD. 1 more Fitcher out of the UFC and off my TV. :thumbsup:


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

RearNaked said:


> But a quick perusal of your recent post history shows you support Cain Velasquez, Nick Diaz, Carlos Condit, Erick Silva, Jose Aldo, Machida, JDS, Belfort,
> 
> and that you think Cub Swanson looks like a 'rodent' and you don't like Charlie Brenneman, Jon Fitch, Jake Ellenberger, Johnny Hendricks, you think Clay Guida is a 'bitch', you call Chuck Liddel 'washed up', you imply that Mark Coleman, one of the greatest of all time sucks, you don't 'ever want to see Cole Konrad fight ever again.


The thing is, the first group of fighters are significantly more exciting then the second group. I totally agree with what you have written above and it has nothing to do with race.

They are simply better fighters.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> There is a nice place to make some money. Not saying Fitch will win for sure, but hard to pass up Jon Fitch as an underdog. Wouldn't be the first explosive hype train derailed by fitching on the tracks.
> 
> Sent from my Desire HD using VerticalSports.Com App


It is basically as close to 50/50 you can get with Silva the slight slight favorite.

I actually think the opposite. I don't see where Fitch derailed any hype trains. He had a very tough time with a gassing 155er in BJ Penn and was just KO'd bad. Fitch is no spring chicken he is 34 going on 35. People need to realize that fighters don't last forever. Just because Fitch was the #2 guy for a long time doesn't mean he is still elite now. Time and evolution catches up to all fighters.

Lets look at Fitch's last few fights:

Hendrcks: KO'd early. Say it was a fluke, it still happened. Fitch has always had holes in his stand up game. 

Penn: Got taken down and beat the 1st round and probably the 2nd as well. Took over when Penn gassed out like he usually does. Nothing impressive out of Fitch here. Penn isn't a top 10 WW.

Alves: Alves didn't make weight. Good win regardless for Fitch, but Alves isn't an elite fighter anymore. Alves has been on a skd since GSP beat him. 

Ben Saunders: Couldn't even finish him. Saunders isn't even in the UFC now. 

Mike Pierce: surprised many and gave Fitch a tough fight. 

He hasn't really faced any upcoming talent. His last 2 fights weren't anything great. Stylistically this is a bad matchup for Fitch. Silva isn't a 155er like Penn. He has a very legit BJJ game. He looks to have solid TDD. His striking is very dangerous. Plus this is in Brazil where they won't let Fitch lay all night even if he does get it to the ground.

This is purely a set up fight for Fitch to lose. And for Silva to cash in on an old name to get some hype around him. The UFC is in the business of creating contenders. And that is exactly what they are expecting here.

We will see


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Wouldn't you think that after Penn fought to a draw with him and really showed him up early in that fight. And after being badly KO'd in his last fight....that they would throw him a bone? You know give him a non-ecplosive upcoming fighter. Maybe give him someone coming off a loss. Maybe not give him a Brazilian in BRAZIL. No because they don't want him around and don't like him.

Wouldn't you think they would bring Silva along slowly? Their are no top Brazilians at 170 really. He is an exciting fighter. He comes from ANderson's camp. He just beat Brenneman. Why would they move him up to a guy like Fitch and not build him up first?

My conclusion is that they know Silva has teh advantages. They know Silva will probably beat Fitch. They like Erick Silva, they are moving him up so quickly because they figure he wins that fight and gets hype for beating the almighty "Jon Fitch".


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Ari said:


> I'm a fan of Erick Silva, but what's with his hype? He knocks out two scrubs and submits Brenneman, who was winning the fight up until being submitted? Brenneman took Silva down on multiple occasions. Fitch is a different animal than Brenneman, who has only lost to GSP and by flash KO to Johny Hendricks. There is no empirical evidence to suggest that Erick Silva is going to beat Fitch.


I like the hype because it's realistic. "Erick Silva will be champ some day" is what we hear. I hate when people push fighters above their line like they do with Weidman and Gus, but Silva is still being treated as a prospect and he's a great one at that.

People might have Silva over Fitch by the tools they use in the cage, and not by MMA math. Thats why I'd have him winning anyways.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> This is purely a set up fight for Fitch to lose. And for Silva to cash in on an old name to get some hype around him.


Exactly why Fitch will crush him. 

This kind of shit never works out properly. 

I see Silva winning round one, then getting absolutely smothered for two rounds. 

29-28 Fitch.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I'm not using MMA math. I'm saying Jon Fitch is a much better wrestler than Charlie Brenneman, which I think few of you will disagree with. Brenneman took Silva down on multiple occasions. Fitch has taken every one of his opponents to the floor except Georges St. Pierre and Johny Hendricks. As much as I like Silva, and as much as I want him to win, I can't see Silva stuffing Fitch's takedowns, even if he does get the better of Fitch on the feet while the fight remains there. There isn't any empirical evidence to suggest that Silva warrants this kind of hype, although I hope he proves me wrong next week.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

To be honest my gut tells me Silva has got what it takes. My gut has been wrong before though and Fitch is still a beast with his ground and grind game. That said Silva has more to win than Fitch. Win or loss Silva will be alright, Fitch would only benefit from a finish. And my God does he need that stoppage.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Ari said:


> I'm not using MMA math. I'm saying Jon Fitch is a much better wrestler than Charlie Brenneman, which I think few of you will disagree with. Brenneman took Silva down on multiple occasions. Fitch has taken every one of his opponents to the floor except Georges St. Pierre and Johny Hendricks. As much as I like Silva, and as much as I want him to win, I can't see Silva stuffing Fitch's takedowns, even if he does get the better of Fitch on the feet while the fight remains there. There isn't any empirical evidence to suggest that Silva warrants this kind of hype, although I hope he proves me wrong next week.


That's what I've been saying. Of brenanmen can take him down fitch can and fitch won't let him back up nearly as easily as Charlie did.

Sent from my Desire HD using VerticalSports.Com App


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Ari said:


> I'm a fan of Erick Silva, but what's with his hype? He knocks out two scrubs and submits Brenneman, who was winning the fight up until being submitted? Brenneman took Silva down on multiple occasions. Fitch is a different animal than Brenneman, who has only lost to GSP and by flash KO to Johny Hendricks. There is no empirical evidence to suggest that Erick Silva is going to beat Fitch.


Da ****? Brenneman wasn't winning that fight at all. he got the vast majority of his takedowns stuffed and the ones he did get, Silva got up straight away and was out-striking him. 

As for the scrubs comment, yes they were both lesser opponents but thats the story of Fitch's career. he has two good wins over Diego and Alves. the rest are scrubs but yet Fitch was hyped as the definitive #2 WW in the world. 

I just don't get it.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

Guy Incognito said:


> Da ****? Brenneman wasn't winning that fight at all. he got the vast majority of his takedowns stuffed and the ones he did get, Silva got up straight away and was out-striking him.
> 
> As for the scrubs comment, yes they were both lesser opponents but thats the story of Fitch's career. he has two good wins over Diego and Alves. the rest are scrubs but yet Fitch was hyped as the definitive #2 WW in the world.
> 
> I just don't get it.


its because its the cool thing to do, "hardcore" fans love fitch and say hes the #2 WW even though hes beaten, like you said 2 top 10 WWs...and really how elite is alves and diego?


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Life B Ez said:


> That's what I've been saying. Of brenanmen can take him down fitch can and fitch won't let him back up nearly as easily as Charlie did.
> 
> Sent from my Desire HD using VerticalSports.Com App


I don't see why.


GSP, BJ Penn, Mike Pierce and even Chris Wilson had success scrambling back to their feet when Fitch took them down. His ground control isn't otherworldly like a Jacob Volkmann.

Especially considering Erick Silva is genuinely good at it.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> I don't see why.
> 
> 
> GSP, BJ Penn, Mike Pierce and even Chris Wilson had success scrambling back to their feet when Fitch took them down. His ground control isn't otherworldly like a Jacob Volkmann.
> ...


 I don't think "he couldn't keep BJ Penn on his back" is a good argument ever for anyone.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

ACTAFOOL said:


> its because its the cool thing to do, "hardcore" fans love fitch and say hes the #2 WW even though hes beaten, like you said 2 top 10 WWs...and really how elite is alves and diego?


The "cool" thing to do? The cool thing to do around here it seems is to hype someone up based off of how exciting they are in the octagon rather than their actual skills shown. Like I said, I like Silva. I want him to beat Fitch and I want him to do well, but just because I find him exciting doesn't mean I think he's a top Welterweight just yet. 

I am very much a "hardcore" fan and I'm absolutely not a Fitch fan. However, to say that Fitch is not elite is just absurd. He's won 13 fights in the UFC with only two losses. Pierce, Sanchez, Alves, and Paulo Thiago are far from scrubs. If Charlie Brenneman can take Erick Silva down, I'd be willing to bet Fitch can to. We'll find out next week.


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