# ***OFFICIAL*** Matt Hughes vs. Josh Koscheck Pre/Post Fight Discussion



## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

*Please direct all threads/posts regarding this fight into this official thread. All other threads will be merged into this one.*​


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Hughes via submission. I think working with Penn and working with Pat Miletech again lights the fire under Hughes who sweeps Kos and then locks up a submission.


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

I agree Hughes pulls off the sub here. I dont think he can take to many hits from Kos.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Hughes via submission. I think working with Penn and working with Pat Miletech again lights the fire under Hughes who sweeps Kos and then locks up a submission.





G_Land said:


> I agree Hughes pulls off the sub here. I dont think he can take to many hits from Kos.


and I thought I would be all alone on this one.:thumbsup:

MFS FTW


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

Hughes is a better submission grappler than Kos but good enough to sub him? I don't think so. Kos and Hughes are basically the same fighter expect Kos is younger, faster, and stronger. I don't see how Hughes wins this.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

Kos Ko's Hughes in the first is my prediction.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

oldfan said:


> and I thought I would be all alone on this one.:thumbsup:
> 
> MFS FTW


Hughes doesn't have much left these days and will get TKO'd early. 

I remember the days of MFS dominating the UFC with Sylvia, Franklin, Hughes and Pulver. Seems like ages ago now.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

I don't like Kos much but i HATE Hughes. I think Kos will destroy Hughes, all Matt has is better subs and Koschecks sub defense is just fine.

It's funny how half the posters think Hughes will win, but he only had one vote lol.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

It's painful watching Matt fight now. His fall from being an elite fighter was so fast it's damn near legendary.


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## c-dub (Nov 18, 2010)

his fall? who has he lost too that proves that he is some kind of faded legend/can? I saw him lose to BJ but half the poster on here are swingin by that midget's nuts so that isn't that embarrassing. I think this will be a competative fight. Hughes has this in him I think to make this fight fun to watch. It is more likely for Kos to win this fight but secretly I'm rooting for the crafty veteran here. lol


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Two strong wrestlers so I think it will be a boxing match in which I see Koscheck beating Hughes.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Speed kills, and Kos is so much faster and more explosive that this fight wont be very competitive. Hughes will try striking or the first 2 minutes, then he will start to get stung by Kos' hands and he will try to close the distance and either shoot or clinch with Kos. This will prove to be useless. Kos will easily shrug him off and from there Hughes will be on borrowed time. Kos will eventually land a big right hand either late in the irst or early in the second round.

Hughes has no way to win this fight. If I was Kos I would take Matt down just or the hell of it to prove his wrestling dominance as well. Its not like Hughes will be able to do anything but get punched in the face from his back. No triangles or armbars coming from Matt.

Its just a terrible matchup for Hughes. If he gets KO'd and isn't competitive, this will be his last fight in his HOF career.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

c-dub said:


> his fall? who has he lost too that proves that he is some kind of faded legend/can? I saw him lose to BJ but half the poster on here are swingin by *that midget*'s nuts so that isn't that embarrassing. I think this will be a competative fight. Hughes has this in him I think to make this fight fun to watch. It is more likely for Kos to win this fight but secretly I'm rooting for the crafty veteran here. lol


:confused02:

How is Penn a midget?


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## Jadey (Dec 10, 2009)

I think everyone is underestimating Hughes, and overestimating Kos. Everyone is equating Hughes being older, as him being a complete invalid or something. Some ppl even said Kos will outwrestle him, which made me lol. Hughes has beat some of the best in the world, who the f**k has Kos beat that Hughes didn't beat better?


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

_RIVAL_ said:


> It's painful watching Matt fight now. His fall from being an elite fighter was so fast it's damn near legendary.


What was so legendary about it? Matt Hughes lost to the who's who of the WW division. When I think legendary fall I think of guys like Cro Cop. That's a career that went down the toilet.

Anyways, Kos is faster, younger, and hits a lot harder. I can see him overwhelming Hughes pretty early.


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

jdun11 said:


> Speed kills, and Kos is so much faster and more explosive that this fight wont be very competitive. Hughes will try striking or the first 2 minutes, then he will start to get stung by Kos' hands and he will try to close the distance and either shoot or clinch with Kos. This will prove to be useless. Kos will easily shrug him off and from there Hughes will be on borrowed time. Kos will eventually land a big right hand either late in the irst or early in the second round.
> 
> Hughes has no way to win this fight. If I was Kos I would take Matt down just or the hell of it to prove his wrestling dominance as well. Its not like Hughes will be able to do anything but get punched in the face from his back. No triangles or armbars coming from Matt.
> 
> Its just a terrible matchup for Hughes. If he gets KO'd and isn't competitive, this will be his last fight in his HOF career.


Exactly.

Not sure it will be Hughes last fight, because they always hang on as long as they can, but I also simply don't see how Hughes can win this. 

Kos isn't a great technical striker, but neither is Hughes, and Kos has the speed and power advantage. Kos just keeps it on his feet and beats Hughes down, easy win for him, easy.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Cotton tops is getting an easy, high profile victory here.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

c-dub said:


> his fall? who has he lost too that proves that he is some kind of faded legend/can? I saw him lose to BJ but half the poster on here are swingin by that midget's nuts so that isn't that embarrassing. I think this will be a competative fight. Hughes has this in him I think to make this fight fun to watch. It is more likely for Kos to win this fight but secretly I'm rooting for the crafty veteran here. lol


Yes his fall. He was the most untouchable dominant WW of all time before GSP came along. Nobody could deal with Matt Hughes.

Now he's nowhere. Nobody even considers him a serious threat. And it happend very fast.

When you go from being the most dominant WW in the world to not even being mentioned in the top five for almost 3 years in a row that is a fall from grace.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I think this fight will look a lot like Penn vs Hughes. Kos by KO in the first.


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## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

I dont think Hughes has fallen that hard, he has only lost to BJ Penn and GSP in his modern UFC career, hardly bad company. (Yea I know he lost to Alves but the guy was hot at the time) I think Hughes has plenty of fight left, but I dont think he can handle Koscheck this time.


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## "El Guapo" (Jun 25, 2010)

Gotta take Kos by KO in the first with this one. Hughes is just naturally getting slow with age (was hardly fast to start with) and really cant see him taking one of Koshecks overhand rights without nighty night.

With Hughes being a massive underdog hes definitely worth a punt on for sub though. No way he TKO's or beats Kos to a decision. Only way for him to win this fight is if Kos gets over-confident and takes the fight to the ground and gets a sub - which although improbable is possible.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

oldfan said:


> and I thought I would be all alone on this one.:thumbsup:
> 
> MFS FTW


Count me in too! Renewed fire under Hughes' arse to secure a nice sub.... right after he drops Kos and give a bit of 2006 circa GnP :thumb02:


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

For all the people who think Hughes is back, etc. Hughes is the last person GSP finished. Just sayin'.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

^I'm pretty sure he finished Serra and BJ.


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## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

He finished BJ Penn. 

I feel a bit scared for Hughes here. Kos seems like a really bad match up and I don't think it will take long for Hughes to be finished. Kos via TKO in the first round after a few takedowns.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Poor Hughes...he's probably going to retire after this fight. Terrible...terrible match up. Unless Josh gets overzealous he's gonna KO Hughes badly.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

cdtcpl said:


> For all the people who think Hughes is back, etc. Hughes is the last person GSP finished. Just sayin'.


Actually, Matt Serra was the last person GSP finished. But if you really want to get technical GSP did beat the living shit out of BJ Penn and forced him not to continue after the 4th round. Just sayin.

Anyways, the only way I see Hughes winning this fight is if catches Koscheck off guard and submits him. Otherwise, I see Koscheck tearing him apart standing up and eventually KO'ing him.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

This may be Hughes' last chance to prove he still has something in his "tank".

But Kos is not stupid. He won't rush in like a mad man. 

I predict a TKO victory for Kos: he is stronger, faster and better conditioned than Hughes atm.

He will tag Hughes at one moemnt - in the 1st rd most likely - and he will finish him.


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## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

Im taking my boy to tko Hughes in the second round.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Matt hasn't lost as much as people like to think. He's still basically the same fish. The pond just got a lot bigger.

I know it seems unlikely to you ex spurts but this fanboy would love to see Kos put to sleep or held down with elbows rubbed in his face for 3 rounds leaving him so frustrated that he goes for a sucker punch after the horn.

Next: kos vs daley 2 in BAMMA.


....Yeah I know.... I am such a fanboy...

MFS


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

Bad match-up for Hughes, he wont be able to take Kos down and Kos has the power to Tko him as his chin seems a bit suspect now.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

cdtcpl said:


> For all the people who think Hughes is back, etc. Hughes is the last person GSP finished. Just sayin'.


And Kos was the last guy he mauled what is your point? Remember the one sided beatdown? Kos is not GSP. Just sayin.


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## Grotty (Jul 21, 2006)

Its a novelty fight, it has absoloutely no bearing on Ranking for Kolscheck, if Hughes pulled the upset then it may put him 3 fights away from a championship fight but that aint gonna happen.


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## mattandbenny (Aug 2, 2007)

Terrible match-up for hughes, Koscheck is a better wrestler and has better stand-up. Unless Hughes catches him like he did to Almeida and like Thiago did to Koscheck, Koscheck will win a confortable 2nd round TKO.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Why is Koscheck's striking suddenly so bad ass, he throws a big looping right and a head kick. He really has two strikes, honestly. Hughes will see that big right coming and telegraph it.


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## ninja69 (Sep 23, 2007)

i think a lot of ppl are ignoring the mental aspect as well. After what GSP did to Kos will we see him want to bang. (I know Hughes doesn't have the jab of GSP but if kos get punched in the face what will he look to do?) 

I also think lots of ppl are underestimating Hughes. Heck he's sold HITT Squad. Starting training with Pat again. Brought BJ to the Camp. I think hes doing everything right. Now hes not gonna have and allsome stand up game all of a sudden but I think hes gonna turn a few heads.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Voting for Matt with absolutely no confidence at all.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Matt Hughes is probably the only elite fighter in mma that i have never cared for or watched with great analysis. I do hope he wins as koscheck head is getting to big.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)




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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Both looking in great shape as usual.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I am going with Matt Hughes, I think he is getting slept on but I may be following my heart more than my head.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Toxic said:


> I am going with Matt Hughes, I think he is getting slept on but I may be following my heart more than my head.


That's what fans are supposed to do:thumb02:


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

The way my night is going Kos is gonna submit Hughes in the first round. I am gonna be broke on my party poker account at the end of the night at this rate.


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## AmEagle (Jun 13, 2007)

Hoping Kos knocks Hughes the **** out here.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I like how KOS is talking... hope he puts hughes out cold and retires the guy


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

AmEagle said:


> Hoping Kos knocks Hughes the **** out here.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

I was gonna go for matt but I changed to KOS KO round 2


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Fukc Josh Koscheck.

Josh Koscheck takes this.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Not a fan of either (by a long shot). Hughes is friends with, and trains with, Penn. Koscheck has stupid hair.

WAR HUGHES. (I will never type that again...)


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

I'm picking Koscheck as I'm realistic...but it would make my YEAR if Hughes beats this d*ckhead up and retires by shutting this punk up!


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I really want to see Hughes win this one and go out on top. I hope the work with Penn pays off. WAR HUGHES!!!!!!


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Now joe say "best walkout music in MMA" I remmember the first time he heard it he said " what the hell is that?":laugh:


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Hoping Hughes takes this.

Kos is a beast but needs more lessons in humility I'm thinking..


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I think Kos kinda hates the idea of being the guy to send Hughes out on a loss. I think that is why he isn't shit talking.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Hughes looks OFF imo. A bit disconnected.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Come on Hughes, Please


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

I hate both fighters both but I can't see Hughes taking Kos down and working a sub which is his only chance. Kos will KO Matt soon unless he fights stupid.​


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Im hoping Hughes does Kos like he did the big dog.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

I think Hughes, in his head, is already retired...I hope he can give us one more stellar performance to remember his career by.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I think its a matter of time until hughes catches a big shot

edit:

although hughes is looking far improved technically


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

Heart=Hughes
Head=Koschek


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Its over Hughes is done


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I hate this card, More than words can explain.


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## mo25 (Feb 7, 2011)

Time for Hughes to retire


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Hughes took a lot more shots than I thought he would before he went out.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Honestly- I really cannot understand why anyone thought Matt could win this fight. Probably holding on to past glory but this was too easy. And I hate Kos.​


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Honestly, i loved Kosheck's attitude in this fight: stayed calmed and relaxed, took his time, never went crazy when Hughes was having some succces with those jabs.

He looked pretty good for someone who was off almost a year.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Well that sucked.


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## mo25 (Feb 7, 2011)

when are my credits gonna kick in?


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

I believe Hughes should retire before he turn into Liddell or a Wanderlei.

Or at least, take a big break to sort things out.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

im 8-1 on this card, cmon rampage


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Oh FFS!!!!


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Kos showing some class. Good way to get the fans off of your back.

You can tell Hughes is a lot like Liddell... doesn't want to hang it up when he really ought to.

That said, he looked good. Solid game plan, but it was only a matter of time. Kos is a younger, faster version of Hughes.


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## arkanoydz (Mar 15, 2010)

damn... first time I was actually rooting for Hughes. Was kinda expecting though, and even pre-fight Hughes did not "feel" like he was as invested or convinced as necessary. gotta respect the guy though, his record and past work speak for themselves :thumbsup:


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

If Matt fights again he will only be pulling a Jens Pulver- it's time Matt. I will never be a fan of Hughes but he was a great champion in his time but that time is over and he needs to retire.​


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## AmEagle (Jun 13, 2007)

Great fight for Koscheck. Time for Hughes to cap off his great career.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

As expected, Hughes chin is ancient china.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

I picked Kos to win but I was surprised how many times Hughes landed cleanly. Like people said before, only a matter of time until Kos won, better version of Hughes. 

The one question I was hoping Joe would ask Kos after the fight is how his eye felt, he kind of kept rubbing at it when getting hit.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

3-2 in your last 5 fights is nothing to be ashamed of...thank you Matt Hughes.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

Bonnar426 said:


> Actually, Matt Serra was the last person GSP finished. But if you really want to get technical GSP did beat the living shit out of BJ Penn and forced him not to continue after the 4th round. Just sayin.
> 
> Anyways, the only way I see Hughes winning this fight is if catches Koscheck off guard and submits him. Otherwise, I see Koscheck tearing him apart standing up and eventually KO'ing him.


I called that one!

Sad that Hughes couldn't have gone out with a win. Granted, I don't like the guy but still....


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

guy incognito said:


> As expected, Hughes chin is ancient china.


He took a lot of big punches. Kos hits very hard. I wouldn't say Hughes chin is china at all. Kos had to hit him a lot to get the KO.

Liddell also looked amazing in his last fight...until Rich landed. It's a shame when a fighter can still compete in many areas, and just one stops that from happening.


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## Jadey (Dec 10, 2009)

I'm going to be a sad panda for a while...until Kos gets a shot at GSP and gets tooled again.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I expected Kos to win, but I understand why Matt Hughes won't retire officially. He already is in the UFC hall of fame, and DW will tie him up in some 1 or 2 fight contract in which he never lets him fight. And I can't believe I am saying this, Hughes needs to listen to his wife, hang the gloves up and raise your family. He has enough money that he can give his kids the most attention they need and deserve. I wish I could do the same!


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Just watched again. Matt totally won the first 4:30 of that round.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I'm not a Hughes fan at all, but that was kind of bittersweet. He was definitely winning and landing clean on Koscheck, but his chin simply isn't what it used to be.

I think a prime Matt Hughes with his current level of standup would be scary as hell.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

A prime Hughes would have schooled Koscheck all night long, Matt lost, but Like Couture if he retires then he went out looking good and fighting the best the UFC put in front of him.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Ari said:


> I'm not a Hughes fan at all, but that was kind of bittersweet. He was definitely winning and landing clean on Koscheck, but his chin simply isn't what it used to be.
> 
> I think a prime Matt Hughes with his current level of standup would be scary as hell.


I was just thinking the same thing. He was definitely the better striker, in terms of technique, before Kos caught him.

Koscheck continues to show the glaring holes in his standup game he has for a few years now. You'd think he'd find better sparring partners at a place called American _Kickboxing_ Academy.


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## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

Was surprised that Hughes was outboxing Koscheck. He was looking great up until the pounding.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

This fight was over before it even began. First time got all the picks right in a very long time. Then again it was pretty easy pickings. 

Hughes is and old tymer now...over the hill with a burnt out chin.

Did anyone actually pick old man Hughes...


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## Atras (Sep 12, 2011)

No_Mercy said:


> This fight was over before it even began. First time got all the picks right in a very long time. Then again it was pretty easy pickings.
> 
> Hughes is and old tymer now...over the hill with a burnt out chin.
> 
> Did anyone actually pick old man Hughes...


I picked Kos to win, but was given such high return on Hughes I put a value bet on him.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Atras said:


> I picked Kos to win, but was given such high return on Hughes I put a value bet on him.


From a betting standpoint it's smart to bet on the underdogs cuz it's usually like -500 for the favorites or -200 at the best case scenario which is a terrible return for your money. Which means for the underdogs it would be +150 and higher. 

From a fight standpoint it could NOT be even more clearer. Everybody knew KOS would kill him. I was actually disgusted they put in KOS cuz I dislike him. I knew this fight would make KOS relevant again. Funny how he actually was relatively well mannered before and after the fight. Maybe GSP humbled him a bit...

Actually this might pave the way for a Diego Sanchez and Kos rematch...now that would be fun.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> This fight was over before it even began. First time got all the picks right in a very long time. Then again it was pretty easy pickings.
> 
> Hughes is and old tymer now...over the hill with a burnt out chin.
> 
> Did anyone actually pick old man Hughes...


I did. I really thought Hughes could have gotten a sub. He's subbed guys like GSP and Almeida before.

Hell, even after people were saying he was done he schooled Almeida standing and then subbed him. Hughes looked damn good on Saturday up until the last 30 seconds too.

I don't see how people can call it a stupid pick when he was clearly winning the fight.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I did. I really thought Hughes could have gotten a sub. He's subbed guys like GSP and Almeida before.
> 
> Hell, even after people were saying he was done he school Almeida standing and then subbed him. Hughes looked damn good up until the last 30 seconds too.
> 
> I don't see how people can call it a stupid pick when he was clearly winning the fight.


Against Almeida that was certainly surprising, but Almeida doesn't have KO power and Hughes could negate his BJJ with his wrestling. But mind you I actually picked Almeida to win and was surprised.

Against KOS...man...how could he win. He was throwing jabs ala GSP, but wasn't landing flush. Josh was patient and picked the right time to explode. If I had to lay down huge sums of money this would have been the fight. Some fights are pretty obvious some not so much.

Further analysis. Hughes usually wins by grinding and outworking his opponents. He did that against BJx2, Triggs, Renzo, and countless others. He's actually a slow starter. Kos starts off fast, is very explosive, has an extensive wrestling background (GSP had a much harder time taking him down the second time around), way stronger, faster, and has solid conditioning as per the five rounder vs GSP. The only way Kos would have lost was to leave himself open or get careless on the ground. If GSP couldn't bust a kimura or leglock on Josh then how's Hughes going to do it. Josh knows the techniques and is STRONG enough to power out of it. 

From a betting, fighting standpoint, style/match standpoint this was a very bad matchup for Hughes.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> Against Almeida that was certainly surprising, but Almeida doesn't have KO power and Hughes could negate his BJJ with his wrestling. But mind you I actually picked Almeida to win and was surprised.
> 
> Against KOS...man...how could he win. He was throwing jabs ala GSP, but wasn't landing flush. Josh was patient and picked the right time to explode. If I had to lay down huge sums of money this would have been the fight. Some fights are pretty obvious some not so much.
> 
> ...


I'm not debating any of this for the most part. I knew it was a bad matchup and I knew it would have been tough for Hughes to win.

BUT

Considering the odds, what Hughes has accomplished, and how many upsets he's pulled off, and how well he was doing in the fight up until the end I don't see how he was considered a stupid pick.

People are commenting in this thread like "LOL I KNEW IT. HUGHES IS DONE LULZ. HE NEVER HAD A CHANCE"


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I'm not debating any of this for the most part. I knew it was a bad matchup and I knew it would have been tough for Hughes to win.
> 
> BUT
> 
> ...


I hear ya...I actually WANTED Hughes to win...cuz I can't stand Kos...he's as soojoko says, a runt (replace with c) But I knew it wasn't going to happen. Learned a long time ago to not choose favorites after losing consistently with Crocop. Heck I won with JBJ even though I'm not really a fan. But if your favorite is an underdog then sure why not place a small bet. It's all in good fun.


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