# Is there a better boxer at WW in the UFC then Nick Diaz



## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

This guy went from bieng an amazing Black belt with no wrestling..To the best striker with amazing JJ, still no wrestling of course. But that aside, is there really anyone in the UFC that can stand with him at WW. I've been watching his last 5-6 fights, and they have been against some top level strikers..KJ Noons, Cyborg, and he just KO'd Paul Daley..Those three guys aren't well rounded MMA fighters, they are strikers, you don't stand and trade with them. But yet Diaz has, and has got the best of them.

This is not the same Diaz that was in UFC before that got beat by a bunch of wrestlers. Or even the same one who KO'd Robbie Lawler.


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## Relavate (Dec 21, 2010)

3 letters


GSP


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

He has beat them all but been severely rocked in each of those fights, to the point of his fight last night almost being stopped.

The biggest strength of Diaz's striking is actually his attitude and making his opponent pissed off enough to charge in like Daley and all the others have done. He gets guys off their games and then picks them apart. 

I still think Diaz is barely a top 10 fighter in the UFC division.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Better pure boxer at WW, only BJ comes to mind. I think Diaz' boxing is somewhat loopy and less technical. Diaz does mix up the combos pretty well, but BJ is definitely the better overall boxer, excellent timing and crispness in his strikes.

If we're talking about better *striker* and not just boxer, I think Alves would wipe the floor with Diaz if he stood too long. The likes of Daley have nothing on well rounded and durable strikers like Alves.

I also thing GSP has a more varied striking arsenal. His jabs are stiffer and more technical, his kicks are fast and unorthodox, and his superman punches are deadly accurate. 

As a striker Diaz relies too much on his insurmountable chin/recovery and pulling people into a brawl, which usually works out for the guy with the better chin. This strategy would not work so well IMHO against guys that refuse to brawl, like GSP and BJ, and are content to tool guys technically for 5 rds.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

GSP's boxing is massively underrated. Especially since he has been working with Roach.

Diaz has a great jab but the jab clinic GSP put on Koscheck was absolutely phenominal. I'd take GSP in a pure boxing match with Diaz.


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## Abrissbirne (Jul 4, 2010)

A good striker doesnt get hit. He isnt special tbh. He will loose when he faces top competition.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Diaz would out strike any one in the WW division, including GSP.

Paul Daley is probably the most powerful and technical striker in the division, Diaz just knocked him out, incredible really.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Diaz landed 36 times at a 47% success ratio according to compustrike... Diaz is a good striker and throws some sick combinations but getting tagged 36 times in 5 minutes by nearly half of what your opponent is throwing isn't the best boxing stats i've ever seen!


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## Brydon (Jan 13, 2007)

edlavis88 said:


> Diaz landed 36 times at a 47% success ratio according to compustrike... Diaz is a good striker and throws some sick combinations but getting tagged 36 times in 5 minutes by nearly half of what your opponent is throwing isn't the best boxing stats i've ever seen!


You have to remember the calibre of striker Daley is. Look at what he did to Martin Kampmann.


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

Diaz's style of boxing would dominate GSP imo(in a pure boxing match) Diaz is willing to take bombs to give them, he doesnt mess around looking for angles etc he just constantly comes forward picking you apart and doesnt care if he gets hit back and most important getting hit doesnt effect him at all. GSPs technique is better but his style of boxing wouldnt work on Diaz's gritty high paced style imo


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## Pound&Mound (Dec 10, 2007)

Brydon said:


> You have to remember the calibre of striker Daley is. Look at what he did to Martin Kampmann.


He didn't do squat to Kampmann compared to what he did to Diaz last night lol..


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## dav35 (Sep 30, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Diaz would out strike any one in the WW division, including GSP.
> 
> Paul Daley is probably the most powerful and technical striker in the division, Diaz just knocked him out, incredible really.


What is more incredible, the fact that Diaz avoided getting knocked out (by Daley) or the fact that Diaz knocked Daley out?

I have always though Daley was a great striker. But, to be honest, he did an AWFUL job last night. He wasn't patient, left himself open, and was flat out sloppy. He had an opportunity to end the fight on more than one instance. 

What i found incredible was Daley's inability to execute when he had Diaz on the verge of defeat.

That being said, good for Diaz. I don't like him, but you can't take the win away from him. He's top 5 IMO.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

dav35 said:


> What is more incredible, the fact that Diaz avoided getting knocked out (by Daley) or the fact that Diaz knocked Daley out?
> 
> I have always though Daley was a great striker. But, to be honest, he did an AWFUL job last night. He wasn't patient, left himself open, and was flat out sloppy. He had an opportunity to end the fight on more than one instance.
> 
> ...


I think its more incredible that he actually KO'd and over whelmed Daley on the feet.

Daley didnt do an awful job, it's just he couldn't adjust or deal with Nicks over whelming pressure and punching combinations. Nick is just that good at over whelming guys with his volume punching and pressure. Daley actually was covering up with good defense, but Nick always managed to find a way to slip punches straight through Daley's high guard and work the body shots. 

Honestly before the fight, I thought there is no way he's going to come close to out striking Daley, boy was I wrong.

Every time Daley rocked Diaz and he fell to the floor, I think Daley was still weary of Nicks ground game, I think he was overly cautious because he didnt want to get caught in some submission, so he was very hesitant and off with his GNP.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

It is impressive that he beat Daley of all people via strikes, but it wasn't with better striking. He got into Daley's head, which is not hard to do, topped it off by landing a couple jabs, and from there on Daley lost his composure and just looked for the big shot. Diaz did it intentionally(taunting), knowing it would help him win, because after the fight he said he's expecting a suspension. But what does he care, he won in the end.

Diaz has great hands, doesn't use kicks, and has a granite chin. Don't forget that Daley decked him twice before he managed to hurt Daley. This is wreckless of Diaz, but to be fair if Daley can't put him to sleep in one shot, no other WW's are going to, and he will continue to be wreckless and cocky until he get's KO'd.

All in all, he get's hit too much to be a good striker, but his hands ARE better than GSP's, which are now severely overrated since the Koscheck fight. Daley's striking is better than both, but he needs to be mentally stronger to implement on tough and well skilled opponents.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

dav35 said:


> What is more incredible, the fact that Diaz avoided getting knocked out (by Daley) or the fact that Diaz knocked Daley out?
> 
> I have always though Daley was a great striker. But, to be honest, he did an AWFUL job last night. He wasn't patient, left himself open, and was flat out sloppy. He had an opportunity to end the fight on more than one instance.
> 
> ...


I mostly agree with this post, however it would be completely foolish for me to suggest this.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

I just love their style to be honest. They set power punches up so well with their constant pitter patter. They're a beauty to watch. Diaz has some nasty body shots too.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Diaz has very *effective* boxing and that's all that matters in MMA; effectiveness. 



But GSP is the best striker at 170, period. He was an incredibly destructive force as "Rush" and now he's an incredible tactile, effective striker as GSP. He outstruck and tooled Alves (second best striker at 170) standing. He also has an incredible reach.



Diaz is getting a ton of cred for his striking right now because the Daley fight is so fresh. But GSP outstruck Penn, Daley, Alves, Mayhem, Serra (II) etc.




edit: realized I sort of digressed here. It doesn't matter if Diaz has the best boxing because this is MMA. If the argument is "does Diaz have the best striking at WW" then of course the answer is no.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

No. 

There might be better all-around strikers but there's definitely no better boxer.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> Paul Daley is probably the most powerful and technical striker in the division, Diaz just knocked him out, incredible really.


Powerful yes. Technically he is highly overrated. He hits hard and has a great left hook. His jabs, defense and even his movement aren't that great.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

420atalon said:


> Powerful yes. Technically he is highly overrated. He hits hard and has a great left hook. His jabs, defense and even his movement aren't that great.


He has a great jab, a great guard and his movement and footwork are also great, he's also very quick. His technique as well as power were on display in his fight with Kampmann.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

BJ Penn is a better boxer, if we are talking striking the list gets longer.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Can someone tell me why the hell Daley fell over ? they clinched and then he fell over.

Was his Knee injured ?


and Diaz got hit a ton of times he has good boxing but he isnt going to destroy everyone.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

***** de Amigo said:


> Can someone tell me why the hell Daley fell over ? they clinched and then he fell over.
> 
> Was his Knee injured ?
> 
> ...


He fell over because he was rocked badly and then got knocked out.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> He fell over because he was rocked badly and then got knocked out.













didnt look like he was rocked or hit with anything to make him fall over more like his knee or ankle gave way.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

edlavis88 said:


> GSP's boxing is massively underrated.





Liddellianenko said:


> Better pure boxer at WW, only BJ comes to mind.





Mckeever said:


> Diaz would out strike any one in the WW division, including GSP.
> 
> Paul Daley is probably the most powerful and technical striker in the division


this ^


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

***** de Amigo said:


> didnt look like he was rocked or hit with anything to make him fall over more like his knee or ankle gave way.


Please for the love of god tell me you're not serious, please.

Daley couldn't sit on his stool after a minute of being dazed and confused lying on the floor.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Please for the love of god tell me you're not serious, please.
> 
> Daley couldn't sit on his stool after a minute of being dazed and confused lying on the floor.


Well he couldnt sit on his stool because he was punched in the face alot WHILE ON THE FLOOR im not saying he wasnt hurt he was but i want to know what strike if any put him down because he looked fine breaking from the clinch and then fell over ?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

***** de Amigo said:


> Well he couldnt sit on his stool because he was punched in the face alot WHILE ON THE FLOOR im not saying he wasnt hurt he was but i want to know what strike if any put him down because he looked fine breaking from the clinch and then fell over ?


He wasn't fine, he tried to throw Diaz away but he was on rubber legs and instead pretty much threw himself over.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

***** de Amigo said:


> Well he couldnt sit on his stool because he was punched in the face alot WHILE ON THE FLOOR im not saying he wasnt hurt he was but i want to know what strike if any put him down because he looked fine breaking from the clinch and then fell over ?


Huge LOL.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Please for the love of god tell me you're not serious, please.
> 
> Daley couldn't sit on his stool after a minute of being dazed and confused lying on the floor.


It is one of the weirdest TKOs I've seen though, doesnt seem to get hit with anything major and then all of a sudden flops to the floor like a fish. Odd.

I kinda agree with *****, he took the main damage from GnP.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Hiro said:


> It is one of the weirdest TKOs I've seen though, doesn;t seem to get hit with anything major and then all of a sudden flops to the floor like a fish. Odd.


My thoughts exactly.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

***** de Amigo said:


> Well he couldnt sit on his stool because he was punched in the face alot WHILE ON THE FLOOR im not saying he wasnt hurt he was but i want to know what strike if any put him down because he looked fine breaking from the clinch and then fell over ?


There is a huge right hand that hits him hard, it takes away his equilibrium which was okay as long he had both eyes open and his feet beneath him. He scuffles around with diaz and hes shoved at a strange angle out of sight, loses balance and falls easily. Its not that he was extremely hurt, he was hurt but it was mostly off balance.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Hiro said:


> It is one of the weirdest TKOs I've seen though, doesnt seem to get hit with anything major and then all of a sudden flops to the floor like a fish. Odd.
> 
> I kinda agree with *****, he took the main damage from GnP.


He landed a clean uppercut and a right hook to Daleys temple at the end of the exchange. Thats what did the damage.


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## trimco (Feb 4, 2011)

edlavis88 said:


> GSP's boxing is massively underrated. Especially since he has been working with Roach.
> 
> Diaz has a great jab but the jab clinic GSP put on Koscheck was absolutely phenominal. I'd take GSP in a pure boxing match with Diaz.


GSP's boxing isn't really underrated.

We only just saw his newly found boxing talent with the showcase he put on in his last fight. His jabs are godly.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

I think people are too quick to jump on things.

I know he was hurt , just seemed like he fell over or flopped on his belly and too me looked very odd.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

either way Jon Fitch, Bj Penn, and OBVIOUSLY GSP would all kill Nick Diaz, and as for the stand up, Bj Penn would whoop that ass


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

***** de Amigo said:


> I think people are too quick to jump on things.
> 
> I know he was hurt , just seemed like he fell over or flopped on his belly and too me looked very odd.


Daley was tired from the pace of the fight and getting ripped to the body a few times. He also got tagged repeatedly and handled all of the shots well at the time but Diaz’s punches add up really quick these days. When that left hook to the body lands, it seems like Daley puts his back against the cage intentionally for support instead of circling out. That last right hand threw off his equilibrium pretty bad, as punches to the temple often do. Notice how he stayed standing against the cage and on his feet as he was clinging to Diaz, but had nothing when he was under his own power. 

He also couldn’t have been happy being bullied around in the striking game, which is not his style at all. We have a fighter who was tired, forced to an unusual pace and work rate, emotionally worn by the rapidly changing tides of the round, had taken damage to he head and body, ate a power shot to the liver, and ate a big punch to the temple. Add ‘em up and that’s a great justification for stank leggin’ it to the mat.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Hiro said:


> It is one of the weirdest TKOs I've seen though, doesnt seem to get hit with anything major and then all of a sudden flops to the floor like a fish. Odd.
> 
> I kinda agree with *****, he took the main damage from GnP.


It wasn't odd at all he was already kinda wobbly when he goes to the cage and then eats a right hook which he immediately reacts to and then falls over.

Having said that i still think BJM should have let it go to the second and lol at dana cheering when Nick starts to unload on Daley


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

Yeah I guess so, he does look out of it towards the end.

I've actually thought this before when Diaz finishes guys, I can't see where he hurts them but his punches must be harder than they look.

I'd be interested to know if Diaz's standup is literally that good, if Daley just gassed early on after going for the finish too soon and paid the price and how both of them would do against Thiago Alvez and GSP who are the best strikers in the UFC WW division.

Daley is actually quite static with his upper body, he doesn't really duck and weave and nor does GSP. GSP stays on the outside while Daley just throws bombs but really gets pressured so doesn't have the need to have upper body movement. These guys are much more like kick boxers yet Diaz just comes in all awkward and overwhelmes top level kick boxers with almost only his hands. I think if Daley had the threat of TDs like GSP does, he'd handle him. Diaz though had no fear of that so just steamed forward and put Daley where no one ever does, on the back foot.

For a guy to be that fearless despite getting floored twice in the opening round is unbelievable. He'd get nowhere in the UFC buy Diaz is one bad mofo.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Toxic said:


> BJ Penn is a better boxer, if we are talking striking the list gets longer.


I'm with Toxic on this one...100%.

Although i have the tendency to underrate Diaz for whateva reason...:confused02: 
I don't fully understand Diaz' style, it's a very strange style but it's effective.

As a pure boxing style he is up there - TOP 3 ZUFFA in the WW division.
But, striking wise he isn't in the TOP 5 imo.

BJ, Alves, GSP, Kampmann (if he doesn't get amnesic and abandons a solid gameplan) and even Condit is ahead of Diaz in my books in terms of striking. Call me stupid - i don't care.

But, i don;t know why some people are still going ahead with this "best fighter at that specific discipline"....

This is *MMA* - it's about all the disciplines. And even though Diaz has good striking and great BJJ, he has a weak point...very weak point. And everyone else knows what it is - of wrestling, of course.

Diaz hasn't faced any good wrestlers since he left the UFC.

Any strong UFC wrestler would take him down and gtind him for 3 rounds imo.

But Diaz has proved me wrong before...


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

limba said:


> I'm with Toxic on this one...100%.
> 
> Although i have the tendency to underrate Diaz for whateva reason...:confused02:
> *I don't fully understand Diaz' style, it's a very strange style but it's effective.*
> ...


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> Nick would have a tough time against Kos, Fitch, Condit even, Sanchez, Rumble, and of course GSP. Their size and wrestling background will be too much for Diaz to overcome. Those guys are MW/LHW fighting at WW. Nick is probably a true WW. Yah I'd say I'm a fan, he represents the streets and he's funny as hell.


This sums it up really well.
Although i don't think Condit fits in that group in terms of his size - he isn't a big WW actually.
But Condit vs Diaz would be a f*cking entertaining fight to watch. 

_PS 1: you forgot Thiago Alves on that list - another explosve match-up_

And i can also see Jake Ellenberger handling Diaz on the ground/grinding him for 3 rounds. He is a big-strong dude also.

_PS 2: Yes - it seems as though Diaz isn't getting all the respect he deserves, but it's hard to do so, when you hear the guy talk a lot of cr*p.
And all the "i'll fight anyone......(except Mayhem)" - didn't help him that much._


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## Suarez-PSL (Mar 16, 2011)

Am I the only one who would love to see Clay guida vs Diaz? Assuming he could move up in weight class. Then Nightmare vs Diaz. Again assuming he could move up.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Suarez-PSL said:


> Then Nightmare vs Diaz. Again assuming he could move up.


Sanchez has moved back to WW. 
He's fought his last 3 fights at 170.


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## Suarez-PSL (Mar 16, 2011)

limba said:


> Sanchez has moved back to WW.
> He's fought his last 3 fights at 170.


I guess Im a little behinde on Nightmare current events. That would be a good fight. Even though they have already fought on TUF and Diaz lost.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

limba said:


> This sums it up really well.
> Although i don't think Condit fits in that group in terms of his size - he isn't a big WW actually.
> But Condit vs Diaz would be a f*cking entertaining fight to watch.
> 
> ...


That would be fireworks!!!

Actually yah I did include Alves on another thread, but was using the wrestling based fighters as an example of who'd Diaz would have a tough time dealing with. More due to size than anything. I think Diaz has far better technique than Kos. Fitch is skillful, but he doesn't try to finish. 

Now if Diaz outsruck Alves, I will be pretty damn near surprised...hah...hah. I was envisioning how the fight would go. Alves will view the Cyborg tape and learn that Diaz never really checked those leg kicks for some reason. So I'd expect him to land those at will and you know how deadly those Muay Thai kicks are. Alves has one thing going against him though; his conditioning. If it's not up to par I could see Diaz doing the old rope a dope technique and tiring him out. Out of ALL MMA fighters I believe Diaz probably has THE best conditioning. I only know one person personally who does Triathalons and man anybody who can endure 2.5 miles of swimming, 100+ miles cycling, 26 miles of running all in one day is an athlete in it's purest form. I calculated I could barely do all that in ONE MONTH...hahahahaha! 

Diaz simply pushes the pace and engages his opponents in these wild brawls that tire them out. It's funny really...



Suarez-PSL said:


> I guess Im a little behinde on Nightmare current events. That would be a good fight. Even though they have already fought on TUF and Diaz lost.


Diaz will have a tough time against bigger opponents who have the conditioning to match his and wrestling background to stifle him; Kos, Fitch, GSP, etc. Now he'll also be dealing with elbows on the ground so he'll probably get cut up even more. 

All in all Diaz is quickly becoming one of the more fan friendly fighters for sure. It's too bad his younger bro hasn't had as much success and they have identical fight styles.


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## cursedbat (Apr 11, 2011)

And you are same guys that said he wouldn’t beat Daley. LOL wine, wine, wine. Next we'll be talking about Sherk again. Deal with it Diaz is not only the most entertaining fighter on a consistent basis but P4P one of the best in the game and one of the best strikers. And its exactly the positive that he took not one but SEVERAL of Daleys shots and got up and knocked him out. That’s not a negative against his striking. He doesn’t give a damn. He is going in and knocking you out the only way you will beat him is to lay on him. Let me make another clear point ...

THIS GUY RAN A TRIATHALON THE WEEK BEFORE THE MATCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wake up NO other fighter in any sport boxing etc...is doing that certainly not GSP. You are high if you are not seeing what this guy has become over the last years and besides humping him you will not see Diaz go down easy. Certainly not form the boring golden boy GSP who I personally liked until he got knocked out and turned into a tentative, boring fighter.

So unless you put him in there with a ghost like Silva or the equal you can forget it, and forget about Alves. He's going down to. Diaz is one of the top strikers in the entire game.


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## Suarez-PSL (Mar 16, 2011)

cursedbat said:


> And you are same guys that said he wouldn’t beat Daley. LOL wine, wine, wine. Next we'll be talking about Sherk again. Deal with it Diaz is not only the most entertaining fighter on a consistent basis but P4P one of the best in the game and one of the best strikers. And its exactly the positive that he took not one but SEVERAL of Daleys shots and got up and knocked him out. That’s not a negative against his striking. He doesn’t give a damn. He is going in and knocking you out the only way you will beat him is to lay on him. You are high if you are not seeing what this guy has become over the last years and besides humping him you will not see Diaz go down easy. Certainly not form the boring golden boy GSP who I personally liked until he got knocked out and turned into a tentative, boring fighter.
> 
> So unless you put him in there with a ghost like Silva or the equal you can forget it, and forget about Alves. He's going down to. Diaz is one of the top strikers in the entire game.


I got to agree. This is a guy whos only been KO'd Once, never been sub'd and hes only getting better.


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## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

Diaz looks a bit unco with his hands.

But no doubt about it, his boxing is the best at WW in any org.

There are plenty of top notch boxers who don't look 'slick' or 'pretty', like 'sugar'. Vitali Klit, Carl Froch, Giovani Segura all come to mind, heck even Pac doesn't throw his punches with proper technique.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

Ummm...I just watched the fight and I think that Diaz's "boxing" is a little wild, but it is really hard to rate "boxing" ability in MMA, as there are too many other factors that hamper one's ability to "box" (he is more of an unorthodox and, thus far, effective "striker"). He wings his punches and leaves himself wide open down the middle - he also fails to protect himself after throwing flurries leaving plenty of space for counters. Unless he tightens up his "boxing," a lot, someone (with tighter punching) is going to drop him (and he won't get up). He eats way too many punches for this style to be effective for long. I do though like how he uses his reach (which is probably his greatest asset) and jab. His work to the body is also quite nice.

I do like Diaz, great fighter who always puts on a show, but I think he'll be in for a rude awakening when he comes back to the UFC. 

So who is a better boxer - I think others in this thread have already answered that.

JMO.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Diaz reminds me of a prime Naseem Hamed; what he's doing should not freakin' work, yet somehow it does and he's knocking out people right & left. They both have very unconventional styles yet they were highly effective and became champions in their sports.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Gsp
Bj
alves
Daley (he got beat, yes, but I still believe he's a better striker)
Amir
And imo Condit may be as well

That's striking not pure boxing, but I also believe that in this day and age of mma you cannot be a pure boxer in the sport and win against top caliber fighters.


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> Diaz would out strike any one in the WW division, including GSP.
> 
> Paul Daley is probably the most powerful and technical striker in the division, Diaz just knocked him out, incredible really.


Daley fought a stupid fight allowing himself to get backed up against the cage for most of the fight and when he finally rocked Nick he was impatient.

I'm sure in a pure boxing match without the threat of knees, the clinch, takedowns etc the results might be different.

Either way Nick has a solid chin and crisp boxing using his jab effectively.


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## duckyou666 (Mar 17, 2011)

Pure Boxing, BJ and GSP are miles ahead. Both have far better technique because all of Diaz's punches either come wide or over the top. Not proper Boxing technique.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

All i'm going to say is it'd be really exciting to see Nick Diaz back in the UFC, he's come along way since losing to Sherk and leaving. I think his aggressive guard could work well against some wrestling at the moment, atleast it'd be interesting to see someone good attempted to tap out the laynprayers.


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

I say BJ and GSP have better pure boxing.


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## Homeboy (Jan 14, 2011)

If we talk about pure boxing id say it would be close. Id say Nick Diaz and BJ are the best pure boxers in WW division. Meanwhile Alves and Amir are good strikers I dont think they are as good boxers.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

ESPADA9 said:


> Daley fought a stupid fight allowing himself to get backed up against the cage for most of the fight and when he finally rocked Nick he was impatient.
> 
> I'm sure in a pure boxing match without the threat of knees, the clinch, takedowns etc the results might be different.
> 
> Either way Nick has a solid chin and crisp boxing using his jab effectively.


NO, no, Daley didn't fight a stupid fight, Nick Diaz FORCED Daley to fight his fight. If you havn't noticed he does this to all of his opponents in the cage. He attacks them with over whelming pressure and combinations, pure volume punching from the get go. Diaz dictated the pace of the fight and there was nothing Daley could do about it.

I keep hearing if Daley fought a better fight and fought smarter etc etc he would have won. Nick Diaz didnt allow him to, he dictated the pace of the fight and deserves more credit for doing so.

After seeing what he did to Daley I dont see how strikers like Thiago Alves have a chance. He would do the same thing. Cut off the cage, close the distance and beat him senseless with boxing. Then we will hear the same thing again. If Thiago used his legs kicks more and fought his fight.....

Everyone says the same thing before and after Diaz' fights. Before its "If Diaz is stupid enough to stand and trade with bla bla he's getting knocked out, he has to take it to the ground". Then after the fight it's "bla bla should have fought smarter and worked his game".

Nick doesnt get enough credit.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

You can't be that good, if you're almost always getting Knocked the f. Out in almost every single fight.. sometimes even against mediocre strikers..

it really doesn't make sense to me anymore..


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## Tabares (Mar 27, 2011)

i think gsp outbox josh


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> You can't be that good, if you're almost always getting Knocked the f. Out in almost every single fight.. sometimes even against mediocre strikers..
> 
> it really doesn't make sense to me anymore..


Tell that to Big Nog :thumb02:

People just need to accept the fact that Diaz is one of the best strikers in the division. It doesnt look pretty, it looks weird as hell, but it WORKS. He's going out there and consistently putting a beating on "the better strikers" each and every fight.

As fine wine pointed out, even some of the best pro boxers in the world have some unorthodox boxing and not the best punching technique, but it works!

What medicore strikers bobby? Cyborg isnt medicore, Noons isnt medicore and Daley certainly isnt medicore. These are very good strikers and Diaz is beating them up.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Tell that to Big Nog :thumb02:
> 
> People just need to accept the fact that Diaz is one of the best strikers in the division. It doesnt look pretty, it looks weird as hell, but it WORKS. He's going out there and consistently putting a beating on "the better strikers" each and every fight.
> 
> ...


Pro Boxers know how to defend a punch and do know what head movement is. Diaz is the worst Boxer I have ever seen.. 

mediocre strikers like.. MAch Sakurai, Cyborg, Zaromskis, Scott Smith (hello), Gomi, Noons and on and on and on.. all almost KO'd him, because Nick just has zero defense in his Boxing. His offensive Boxing looks good, however he is really nothing special especially nothing special as an MMA striker. I can only imagine what a guy like Alves would do to him.


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## Homeboy (Jan 14, 2011)

BobbyCooper said:


> Pro Boxers know how to defend a punch and do know what head movement is. Diaz is the worst Boxer I have ever seen..
> 
> mediocre strikers like.. MAch Sakurai, Cyborg, Zaromskis, Scott Smith (hello), Gomi, Noons and on and on and on.. all almost KO'd him, because Nick just has zero defense in his Boxing. His offensive Boxing looks good, however he is really nothing special especially nothing special as an MMA striker. I can only imagine what a guy like Alves would do to him.


Now thats a really arrogant thing to say... But haters gonna hate. WORST BOXER?? come on dude...


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Homeboy said:


> Now thats a really arrogant thing to say... But haters gonna hate. WORST BOXER?? come on dude...


Boxing is all about your defense actually.. where Diaz just sucks big time. So how can I possibly call him a good Boxer?

It's out of this world..

I respect Nick a lot and like him actually, but come on!


I mean Scott Smith anybody??


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## Homeboy (Jan 14, 2011)

I wonder how come he has never been KO'd... He only has 2 Tko losses 1 was due to cuts and another 1 early in his career. His boxing is really effective wich makes it so good.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> You can't be that good, if you're almost always getting Knocked the f. Out in almost every single fight.. sometimes even against mediocre strikers..
> 
> it really doesn't make sense to me anymore..





Mckeever said:


> Tell that to Big Nog :thumb02:
> 
> People just need to accept the fact that Diaz is one of the best strikers in the division. It doesnt look pretty, it looks weird as hell, but it WORKS. He's going out there and consistently putting a beating on "the better strikers" each and every fight.
> 
> ...


Bobby is right in a way Mck...and he makes a good point.

I'll be the first to admit i doubted Diaz in this fight and thought Daley would KO him. Well, Daley tagged Diaz really good, but failed to finish. Even more props for Diaz for coming back like he did.

But, you can't rely on that ability forever. You can't get tagged/rocked in every fight and come back everytime to beat your opponent. Or......maybe you can. :confused02: 

The definition of a world class does not include getting tagged so many times, in all of your fights and coming back - like Diaz is doing. Noons, Cyborg and Daley - they all hit Diaz with clean shots. A lot.
But the guy has an fu**ing badass chin, great ablity to take damage and endurance. He is a unique fighter.

A world class striker through definition is Anderson Silva or JDS - guys with great technique, who go in there and dominate their opponents with their striking and make it look easy. 
Just like with other martial arts disciplines. Maia is a great BJJ fighter because he controls his opponents at BJJ and makes it look easy. He's always in control and never in trouble when it comes to BJJ.
But this would be a dictionary definition of the whole thing, of course. Reality is something different.

And another thing. I will say this as many times as i need to: Diaz can and will fight this way, because:

*1. he imposes it*

*2. because his opponents allow it*

Diaz's fight with Cyborg is a great example for it. Cyborg was doing really well with those leg kicks keeping Diaz at distance and staying away from his striking. Until he faded and let Diaz get close and start letting his hands loose.

*3. he is not affraid of any takedowns*

Some don't want to aknowledge this and i don't know why. 
It's a proven fact that Diaz has...or at least had problems with good wrestlers. 
And it's another proven fact that a great wrestler can shut down a great striker. The best example is Sonnen vs Silva. Staying alert for the TD all the time will screw your game no matter who you are. It happened to Silva, Diaz is no exception. But, since he doesn't have to be aware of the TDs - at least in SF, who don't have any decent wrestlers at WW - he can fight his own fight.
And i don't think he would be too concerned with ending up on the floor annyway. But he will most likely lose some UDs against the top UFC wrestlers.

All this being said, it doesn't mean i don't consider him a great fighter, even though i don't really care for the guy.

Just my 2 cents of course.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Pro Boxers know how to defend a punch and do know what head movement is. Diaz is the worst Boxer I have ever seen..
> 
> mediocre strikers like.. MAch Sakurai, Cyborg, Zaromskis, Scott Smith (hello), Gomi, Noons and on and on and on.. all almost KO'd him, because Nick just has zero defense in his Boxing. His offensive Boxing looks good, however he is really nothing special especially nothing special as an MMA striker. I can only imagine what a guy like Alves would do to him.


You're out of your element Bobby. You and many others say the same thing about Diaz before all of his fights. You said the same thing about Noons, you said the same thing about Daley. Now you think Thiago Alves is going to destroy him. Mate, Paul Daley is a better striker than Thiago Alves. All Alves has going for him in this fight are leg kicks. When Diaz cuts off the cage and over whelms him with punches, he will crumble, like they all do.

Cyborg isnt a medicore striker, Noons isnt a medicore striker, prime Gomi wasnt a medicore striker. How can you call any of these guys medicore?! Scott Smith and Sakurai aside of course. You yourself said noons was a good striker and was going to finish Diaz, it didnt happen, so now he's a medicore striker?

People keep saying good strikers dont get hit, YES THEY DO! Anderson gets hit, he got tagged plenty of times by Damian Maia of all people in the late rounds quite a bit. JDS got hit time and time again by Roy Nelson, Cain Velasquez got hit hard a good few times early on by Brock Lesnar, he got dropped by Kongo 3 times!! The best of strikers get hit and tagged on the button and this is where the confusions lies.

People keep saying Diaz gets away with it because he has a great chin which is wrong. Diaz gets dropped almost every time he gets hit clean on the button, how does that = him having a great chin?! He doesn't, what Diaz has is great recovery, he has the ability to get clocked and recover almost instantaneously. JDS got tagged a good few times by Roy Nelson cleanly and even Cro Cop, what if JDS got dropped those times? Would people then say he's not a great striker?

Cain was even getting hit a few times on the button by Big Nog!

As for the wrestling limba, we havn't seen him face a decent wrestler in years, but you know what, guys like JDS have never fought a wrestler in their entire career, but yet people still say he's going to destroy Brock, fans are biased. I think Nick is a complete different animal to what he was 3-4 years ago. Time will only tell how he deals with the Fitch's and Koschecks, but I think his Jitz and striking would over whelm most of the UFC WW division.

Edit: His opponents dont allow it limba. You think Cyborg just said, ok forget the leg kicks even though they have been working great for me so far, lewts just brawl close quarters with punches? No. Diaz forced Cyborg to fight his fight. He was getting tagged hard by leg kicks early on and he adapted, he changed his game plan and he FORCED cyborg to fight his fight. Cyborg didnt want to allow it, but Nick left him with no choice. He cut off the cage, over whelmed Cyborg and made him fight his fight, just like he did to Paul Daley. I just dont think the guy gets enough credit for things like this in the striking department, people always seem to blame his opponent instead of giving Nick his props.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

limba said:


> And another thing. I will say this as many times as i need to: Diaz can and will fight this way, because:
> 
> *1. he imposes it*
> 
> *2. because his opponents allow it*





Mckeever said:


> Edit: His opponents dont allow it limba. You think Cyborg just said, ok forget the leg kicks even though they have been working great for me so far, lewts just brawl close quarters with punches? No. Diaz forced Cyborg to fight his fight. He was getting tagged hard by leg kicks early on and he adapted, he changed his game plan and he FORCED cyborg to fight his fight. Cyborg didnt want to allow it, but Nick left him with no choice. He cut off the cage, over whelmed Cyborg and made him fight his fight, just like he did to Paul Daley. I just dont think the guy gets enough credit for things like this in the striking department, people always seem to blame his opponent instead of giving Nick his props.


I quoted myself for this one.
I believe it's a combination of the two.
Agreed: Diaz adapts in his fights and that's a big PLUS for him.

PS: i believe Alves is a better striker than Daley



Mckeever said:


> As for the wrestling limba, we havn't seen him face a decent wrestler in years, but you know what, guys like JDS have never fought a wrestler in their entire career, but yet people still say he's going to destroy Brock, fans are biased. I think Nick is a complete different animal to what he was 3-4 years ago. Time will only tell how he deals with the Fitch's and Koschecks, but I think his Jitz and striking would over whelm most of the UFC WW division.


Agreed - Diaz is a different fighter than he was 3-4 years ago.
But we haven't seen him go against a top wrestler, because Elite XC didn't have one and SF don't have one to match him up against, so...the question will always remain.

It's the similar situationSilva was in before his last fights: how will he fair against a world class grappler?! (Maia). How will he fair against a world class wrestler?! (Sonnen) and of course...How will he fair against a world class striker?! (Belfort).

And now it's GSP's turn. He went through the same routine with BJ & Alves (striking), Fitch & Kos (wrestling) and now it's Shields' turn to test the BJJ aspect of GSP's game.

It's something Diaz will have to do also, for the majority of people to fully aknowledge him as a true great, even though he proved everyone he is a true fighter.
Maybe it's not the right to do - judge him like this - but in today's MMA every fighter needs to go through this *filter* and prove himself in every aspect of the game.

_PS: i would also love to see Diaz against a top BJJ fighter honestly. I want to see his jits tested. 

I believe we will see him against a UFC fighter in less than 12 months. The reality is, there isn't anyone left for him to fight in SF at WW._


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I'd like to add Diaz has two huge attributes going for em actually make it three.

1.) Incredible conditioning and recovery. This allows him to throw a high volume of shots without ever getting tired and *also taking em*...lolz! 

2.) Street mentality. He straight doesn't give a flying fawk about brawling even against Cyborg who probably had 25+ muscle advantage on em. Even against Robbie, Daley he was right there in their face. This is the same mentality Wand had as well as Shogun. It helps in the face of battle. Most fighters do actually care about getting hit that's why they play tactical. *Nick on the other hand doesn't care about getting hit. In fact him vs Lytle would be very interesting. * 

Elusive tactical fighters. 

- GSP
- Fitch 
- Anderson Silva
- Edgar
- Machida


3.) Taunting. He's one of the best. It takes his opponents off their games. Anybody who's competed in anything; sports, video games, board games, fighting, sparring, etc...etc...know that it can effect your judgement. Having to listen to that for five minutes is almost like an eternity when you're fighting. You'll probably end up expending more energy in trying to "KO" the guy. Just like Daley and Shane vs Brock.


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## IllegalLegKick (Apr 13, 2010)

In my opinion he''s really not a great striker he is just incredibly tough, has a solid chin and recovers very fast. Thats not to say he is not a good striker he definitely is but the reason he knocks guys out that are better strikers than him is his incredible resilience. His ability to press forward while taking shots and then land shots of his own is why he's so good as a striker. Lets be real anybody else at welterweight took those shots from Paul Daley it would have been good night. 

I'd love to see him back in the UFC and personally I think he has the skill set to beat GSP. GSP from a technical boxing stand point is light years ahead of him but Diaz is going to take anything GSP can throw at hit him and then GSP is in trouble. If GSP takes it to the ground he can probably control it there but Diaz has world class Jitz. 5 rounds is a long time to be in a guy like thats guard and he won't gas or be broken.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

The thing about Nick Diaz is that he's a completely unorthodox fighter. His stance, his movement, his strikes, everything is unusual and hence its hard to judge him technically. There are far better *technical* boxers in the UFC and Strikeforce, BJ Penn and GSP being two names that come to mind, but not sure if they could 'out box' Diaz because of his style. Daley is a better boxer technically but still lost to Diaz.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

"You're only as good as your last fight."

Truer words have never been spoken. I remember it wasn't that long ago that posters on this forum were balking at the idea of Diaz vs. GSP after his fights with Noons and Santos. Both Noons and Santos gave Diaz extremely tough fights. Santos (in my opinion) was schooling Diaz on the feet in the second round until he made one of the worst tactical decisions I've ever seen and took Diaz down. When you're starting to get gassed, it's pretty advisable NOT to take down a guy with sick cardio and great jiu-jitsu.

I think Diaz will have issues with any wrestler he faces in the UFC. The thing about Diaz, is that while he's getting better he still isn't evolving. Wrestling has proven to be the backbone of MMA over the course, and Diaz doesn't possess hardly any wrestling skills. He relies too much on his high volume striking, chin, and jiu-jitsu. Paul Daley has absolutely PUTRID wrestling and still managed to get Diaz to the floor. If he ever takes a step up in competition, Diaz is going to be taken down, controlled, and smashed. If you want to know how Diaz vs. GSP will go, here is an idea...

Diaz charges in slinging punches
St. Pierre seperates and creates distance
Diaz gets taken down
St. Pierre lands some moderate GnP
Diaz gets up
Diaz starts throwing punches
St. Pierre lands a leg kick and secures a takedown
St. Pierre lands more GnP

Rinse and repeat. If Diaz wants to face the best in the UFC, he really needs to develop his wrestling.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Ari said:


> "You're only as good as your last fight."
> 
> Truer words have never been spoken. I remember it wasn't that long ago that posters on this forum were balking at the idea of Diaz vs. GSP after his fights with Noons and Santos. Both Noons and Santos gave Diaz extremely tough fights. Santos (in my opinion) was schooling Diaz on the feet in the second round until he made one of the worst tactical decisions I've ever seen and took Diaz down. When you're starting to get gassed, it's pretty advisable NOT to take down a guy with sick cardio and great jiu-jitsu.
> 
> ...


That really remains to be seen. He's trained for years with one of the top 3 WWs in the world with his grappling in Jake Shields.

Maybe he just doesn't rely on his grappling. Could be he likes to impose his will on the feet. 

Years ago Diaz was known as a BJJ guy. Now he's on the level of elite striker with sick BJJ pedigree.


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## Dream-On-101 (Jun 4, 2009)

I find Diaz style very unorthodox and quite frankly a bit bizarre. I cant figure out why it works - but it does. He is able to implement a game plan that allows him to outstrike 'technically' superior fighters. 

All that really matters is how effective Diaz striking is, not whether it looks like its been copied out of a textbook. And the truth is that at the minute Diaz striking has been finishing other top tier strikers. Say what you will about the abundance of flaws in Daleys game (and there are numerous) but no one can deny he is a top drawer striker, certainly in the divisions elite for that discipline. 

Diaz just KO'd him. That sends an impressive message. 

Do i think Diaz would outstrike EVERYONE in the division? No. I think Thiago, GSP and to a lesser extent BJ would give him a world of problems on the feet. But it really says something about the improvements Diaz has made that people are even discussing this. If he continues to improve, he could very well become the premier striker in the division.


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

Dream-On-101 said:


> I find Diaz style very unorthodox and quite frankly a bit bizarre. I cant figure out why it works - but it does. He is able to implement a game plan that allows him to outstrike 'technically' superior fighters.
> 
> All that really matters is how effective Diaz striking is, not whether it looks like its been copied out of a textbook. And the truth is that at the minute Diaz striking has been finishing other top tier strikers. Say what you will about the abundance of flaws in Daleys game (and there are numerous) but no one can deny he is a top drawer striker, certainly in the divisions elite for that discipline.
> 
> ...


I mirror a lot of these sentimenets. I watch Diaz fight after Diaz fight and while fun I can't figure out why his striking works. It doesn't look like it hurts but it buckles guys. Like I said, super fun but confusing as heck to view. I wish I could box people like that!


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

While Diaz's boxing is very tight (I get a sour taste in my mouth whenever I show support for the scrap pack, then again it might be the coffee!:thumb02 I think a lot more matters in MMA than just boxing. 

After watching his fight with Daley, I rate him top 10 WW, but in MMA a whole lot more than just his hands matter. 

I put GSP, Koscheck, Shields, Fitch, as well as Condit, and Lytle. But that's just me, I can understand dropping Lytle or maybe Condit and put him at #5, but I don't see him that highly ranked just yet. 

The fact is one of those top wrestlers with great sub defense would easily be able to grind him out. His JJ is good, but his sprawls and scrambles leave something to be desired.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

IllegalLegKick said:


> In my opinion he''s really not a great striker he is just incredibly tough, has a solid chin and recovers very fast. Thats not to say he is not a good striker he definitely is but the reason he knocks guys out that are better strikers than him is his incredible resilience. His ability to press forward while taking shots and then land shots of his own is why he's so good as a striker. Lets be real anybody else at welterweight took those shots from Paul Daley it would have been good night.
> 
> I'd love to see him back in the UFC and personally I think he has the skill set to beat GSP. GSP from a technical boxing stand point is light years ahead of him but Diaz is going to take anything GSP can throw at hit him and then GSP is in trouble. If GSP takes it to the ground he can probably control it there but Diaz has world class Jitz. 5 rounds is a long time to be in a guy like thats guard and he won't gas or be broken.


I would think that GSP would be more than happy moving in and out for 5 rounds picking him apart.
If he gets frustrated because Nick won't go away, he can always take him down.
And I don't see GSP being subbed by Nick while being on top.

IMHO of course...


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

In a pure boxing match I think Diaz would tool GSP. Length, willingness to take shots, harder punching = Diaz wins. In an MMA fight I think GSP wins hands down but in pure boxing (gloves and all) I think Diaz whoops him.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Calibretto9 said:


> I mirror a lot of these sentimenets. I watch Diaz fight after Diaz fight and while fun I can't figure out why his striking works. It doesn't look like it hurts but it buckles guys. Like I said, super fun but confusing as heck to view. I wish I could box people like that!


I think it works because it's so far out of the ordinary that opponents can't even begin to figure out how to deal with it. I'll call the style "stoner boxing" for lack of a better description. It breaks pretty much every single rule of a traditional boxing style so guys coming from that background not only have to figure out how stoner boxing works, they also have to unlearn most of their traditional boxing instincts to deal with it. Things that work well against regular boxers get turned upside down by stoner boxing.

It was the same way when Naseem Hamed was making his run in boxing, his style was just so far out there that no one could deal with it.

Not the best of his highlights, but it gives an idea of what he did.


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

aerius said:


> I think it works because it's so far out of the ordinary that opponents can't even begin to figure out how to deal with it. I'll call the style "stoner boxing" for lack of a better description. It breaks pretty much every single rule of a traditional boxing style so guys coming from that background not only have to figure out how stoner boxing works, they also have to unlearn most of their traditional boxing instincts to deal with it. Things that work well against regular boxers get turned upside down by stoner boxing.
> 
> It was the same way when Naseem Hamed was making his run in boxing, his style was just so far out there that no one could deal with it.
> 
> Not the best of his highlights, but it gives an idea of what he did.


Sorry to go off topic but Nas was the f***ing man, i used to love watching him fight when i was a kid, cant beleive he retired when he did.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

Dream-On-101 said:


> I find Diaz style very unorthodox and quite frankly a bit bizarre. I cant figure out why it works - but it does. He is able to implement a game plan that allows him to outstrike 'technically' superior fighters.


People are making too much of this. He is outstriking "better" strikers because he has an incredible chin (or recovery if you prefer that) and cardio. That's all. He can rely on a stand and trade style because he knows he can always take a punch, or two, or three, to give one. His oppopnents get flustered when they can't hurt him or hurt him and can't finish him. When he fights anyone with any wrestling who fights even half way smart (not getting into a slugfest) he loses.

He has only been finished twice in 35 fights, that is very impressive and one of those was cuts. No subs and one tko loss (in 2002) is a testament to how tough he is. 

It still doesn't change the fact that I think he'd lose to almost all of the many many wrestlers in the UFC WW division.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

yes. his ability, plus length, plus chin make him the best at WW in terms of throwing hands. He has now proven that he actually has somegood power whenhe wants.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Drogo said:


> People are making too much of this. He is outstriking "better" strikers because he has an incredible chin (or recovery if you prefer that) and cardio. That's all. He can rely on a stand and trade style because he knows he can always take a punch, or two, or three, to give one. His oppopnents get flustered when they can't hurt him or hurt him and can't finish him. When he fights anyone with any wrestling who fights even half way smart (not getting into a slugfest) he loses.
> 
> He has only been finished twice in 35 fights, that is very impressive and one of those was cuts. No subs and one tko loss (in 2002) is a testament to how tough he is.
> 
> It still doesn't change the fact that I think he'd lose to almost all of the many many wrestlers in the UFC WW division.


Sorry but the first part of your post is just nonsense. So he's beating all of these strikers at their own game just because he has cardio and a good chin. Come on man.

Note to all fighters with a good chin and great cardio. If you're ever facing a great striker, regardless of your own striking just stand in front of them and trade punches, you'll beat them.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Sorry but the first part of your post is just nonsense. So he's beating all of these strikers at their own game just because he has cardio and a good chin. Come on man.
> 
> Note to all fighters with a good chin and great cardio. If you're ever facing a great striker, regardless of your own striking just stand in front of them and trade punches, you'll beat them.


I agree with Drogo , Diaz has good Boxing no question , but just look at guys like Arlovski who also have good boxing and no chin they get KTFO. Diaz gets hit more than Arlovski sometimes yet Diaz has a great chin like Drogo said so can stay in the pocket and beat these guys , Diaz has good boxing but a better chin and in striking that HELPS ALOT which allows him to take a punch a deliver his. 

Diaz has been tagged lots of times , more times than Penn has done so i would say that overall Penn has better boxing defensive and offensive.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

***** de Amigo said:


> I agree with Drogo , Diaz has good Boxing no question , but just look at guys like Arlovski who also have good boxing and no chin they get KTFO. Diaz gets hit more than Arlovski sometimes yet Diaz has a great chin like Drogo said so can stay in the pocket and beat these guys , Diaz has good boxing but a better chin and in striking that HELPS ALOT which allows him to take a punch a deliver his.
> 
> Diaz has been tagged lots of times , more times than Penn has done so i would say that overall Penn has better boxing defensive and offensive.


Drogo gave no respect or credit to Diaz' boxing. He simply said, he only wins against strikers because he can stand and trade and has cardio, which isn't true.

Heres a straight up fact. There is no other fighter in MMA that can land the volume of combinations Nick Diaz does with his boxing. You see fighters use 3-4 punch combos MAX. Diaz can string together 6-7-8 punch combinations together, working the body, working the head with a range of different punches, hooks, uppercuts, jabs. The way he transfers from probing jabs to set up the power strikes is unbelievable.

I've just finished watching a good 4 fights of Nick Diaz so it's all fresh.

His combination boxing/punching is unheard of in MMA and his body shots are a thing of beauty. He is insanely accurate with his punches too.

The kid gets no where near enough credit for his striking ability.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Drogo gave no respect or credit to Diaz' boxing. He simply said, he only wins against strikers because he can stand and trade and has cardio, which isn't true.
> 
> Heres a straight up fact. There is no other fighter in MMA that can land the volume of combinations Nick Diaz does with his boxing. You see fighters use 3-4 punch combos MAX. Diaz can string together 6-7-8 punch combinations together, working the body, working the head with a range of different punches, hooks, uppercuts, jabs. The way he transfers from probing jabs to set up the power strikes is unbelievable.
> 
> ...


KJ Noons has better boxing IMO and competed with a broken jaw and hand losing by like 1 round...........and has beaten him.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

***** de Amigo said:


> KJ Noons has better boxing IMO and competed with a broken jaw and hand losing by like 1 round...........and has beaten him.


Hey, do you know why KJ had a broken jaw?

Have a guess?

Because Nick Diaz wholloped him one and broke it, thats why.

You know why KJ broke his hand? Improper punching technique on Diaz.

Yes, Noons beat Diaz four years ago due to a first round cut stoppage. 4 years is a long time. Fighters grow, fighters evolve.

Noons is a great striker, Diaz beat him, deal with it.

You must be still upset because Paul lost or some thing I'm not sure. Not one single fighter has ever come close to KO'ing Paul Daley or beating him up on the feet like that, not one. I think that speaks volumes for Diaz' striking ability.


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## Dream-On-101 (Jun 4, 2009)

Drogo said:


> People are making too much of this. *He is outstriking "better" strikers because he has an incredible chin (or *recovery if you prefer that) and cardio. That's all. He can rely on a stand and trade style because he knows he can always take a punch, or two, or three, to give one. His oppopnents get flustered when they can't hurt him or hurt him and can't finish him. When he fights anyone with any wrestling who fights even half way smart (not getting into a slugfest) he loses.
> 
> He has only been finished twice in 35 fights, that is very impressive and one of those was cuts. No subs and one tko loss (in 2002) is a testament to how tough he is.
> 
> It still doesn't change the fact that I think he'd lose to almost all of the many many wrestlers in the UFC WW division.



I dont really understand what you mean by this. He wins 'only' because of a granite chin and cardio? There are plenty of fighters with great chins and great cardio - they arent outstriking boxers/kickboxers of Paul Daleys caliber.

I've never understood the whole 'take away X attribute from X fighter and they would be not nearly as effective'. Obviously. Take away a key attribute of any fighter and they become less effective. GSP minus quality top control = a less effective GSP. Nick Diaz minus granite chin = less effective Diaz. But he has that attribute, so why discuss the hypothetical situation of him not having it? Mental. 

I agree that most quality wrestlers would have their way with him, but this thread is about pure striking. In pure striking, Diaz is clearly up there with the best. 

I also agree with Mckeever, Diaz has some leathal combinations.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Hey, do you know why KJ had a broken jaw?
> 
> Have a guess?
> 
> ...




No im not upset :confused05: i think you're the one who sounds upset that everyone isnt agreeing with you, KJ is a better boxer IMO prove me wrong ow wait you cant because its my opinion, they are one each so deal with it and note that Noons is smaller so imagine what guys like Alves would do to Diaz. Also can reel some names Daley has faced that have good striking...........yea this could take a while.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

***** de Amigo said:


> No im not upset :confused05: i think you're the one who sounds upset that everyone isnt agreeing with you, KJ is a better boxer IMO prove me wrong ow wait you cant because its my opinion, they are one each so deal with it and note that Noons is smaller so imagine what guys like Alves would do to Diaz. Also can reel some names Daley has faced that have good striking...........yea this could take a while.


Ahh, so now Daley was never a good striker in the first place, love it. LOVE IT.

If KJ was a better boxer he would have out boxed Nick Diaz in their last fight, but he didn't. He had his jaw broken by Nick and broke his own hand due to his own improper punching technique. I don't know what universe you live in, but that doesn't = KJ being the better boxer.

Ahh so now Thiago Alves is the new striker to maul Diaz. First it was Zamromski's, then it was Noons, then Paul Daley, now its Thiago Alves.

Your posts never fail to amuse me Amigo.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Ahh, so now Daley was never a good striker in the first place, love it. LOVE IT.
> 
> If KJ was a better boxer he would have out boxed Nick Diaz in their last fight, but he didn't. He had his jaw broken by Nick and broke his own hand due to his own improper punching technique. I don't know what universe you live in, but that doesn't = KJ being the better boxer.
> 
> ...


Okay first off KJ Noons lost we know but he looked just as good. Secondly Daley is a good striker but not some god like you lot made out i thought he would win but he didnt owell. Zarmoskis lmao :confused05: try and tell me Alves isnt a better striker than Diaz. 

and wow you put my user name in google and found an old game i enjoyed such a great retort/attempt to insult.


For starters its a play on words since that says Samba and my name says ***** , im sorry i dont have a generic user name like yourself which is most likely your second name how original....... jesus how old are you ?


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Diaz has major balls to be throwin like that with Paul Daley. It's a pretty big advantage when you can take the hardest punch the other guy can throw and still come at him.


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## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

Nefilim777 said:


> The thing about Nick Diaz is that he's a completely unorthodox fighter. His stance, his movement, his strikes, everything is unusual and hence its hard to judge him technically. There are far better *technical* boxers in the UFC and Strikeforce, BJ Penn and GSP being two names that come to mind, but not sure if they could 'out box' Diaz because of his style. Daley is a better boxer technically but still lost to Diaz.


Exactly.

Go have a watch of Ivan Calderon vs Giovani Segura. One is far far far far far superior technically, the other beat him up. Simple as that.

There are hundreds of examples of this in boxing.

Generally, a great technician will win, but not necissarily.

Best boxers, Eddie Alvarez, JDS, Edgar, Cruz. BJ has a good right cross, jab and counter left hook, but that is all.

GSP has a jab, that is about it.

As for Diaz, he is only getting better with his boxing, it isn't very technical, but like Segura, V Klit, Carl Froch et al he gets the job done.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> Drogo gave no respect or credit to Diaz' boxing. He simply said, he only wins against strikers because he can stand and trade and has cardio, which isn't true.
> 
> 
> The kid gets no where near enough credit for his striking ability.


I'm not saying Diaz isn't a good striker, I'm responding to the OP asking if there are better boxers at WW. There are and Daley is one of them. Diaz is clearly a far better fighter overall than Daley but Diaz is WAY too easy to hit to call him the best boxer/striker at WW. He gets dropped routinely, part of being a good striker is defense.

I like the Arlovski example, it illustrates the point.

MMA is more than striking though, it is a bunch of things. Wrestling, striking, cardio, chin, BJJ. Diaz has the whole package except wrestling. He hasn't beaten a strong wrestler yet. If he does I'll be happy to admit he is a top 5 WW. Past history suggests he can't do that though.

People respond to that by saying "that was x years ago, fighters evolve, etc". Yeah they do but has Diaz wrestling evolved? What evidence do we have of that? I still see him getting taken down pretty much by anyone who wants to. That doesn't bode well in a fight against any of the half dozen (or more) big wrestlers kicking around the top 15 of the UFC WW division.


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## Pound&Mound (Dec 10, 2007)

lol wow. Nick Diaz is a good striker but he does eat shots. His style works though so yeah it doesn't matter if he's the best boxer or not, this isn't boxing


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

He definitely has some of the top boxing at WW in the world no question. There is a few i'd pick over him personally like BJ and possibly Kampmann but he is damn good.

Definitely some of the best body punches you'll see in MMA in my opinion.


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## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

Since when do you have to be a great technician and defensive fighter to be a great boxer? 99% of people, including boxing fans, really don't understand how the sport works and what makes a great boxer.

As for Nick Diaz V Kampmann, Diaz would RUIN him! Kampman has technique and nothing else.


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