# UFC 106: Brock Lesnar vs. Shane Carwin



## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

November 21, 2009
Mandalay Bay Events Center 
Las Vegas, Nevada 



*Main Card :*

*Heavyweight Championship bout: Brock Lesnar (c) vs. Shane Carwin
Light Heavyweight bout: Tito Ortiz vs. Forrest Griffin
Welterweight bout: Karo Parisyan vs. Dustin Hazelett



*


*Preliminary Card :*

*Welterweight bout: Amir Sadollah vs. Phil Baroni
Welterweight bout: Ben Saunders vs. Marcus Davis
Middleweight bout: Kendall Grove vs. Jake Rosholt
Lightweight bout: George Sotiropoulos vs. Jason Dent

*
*Other announced matchups :*

_These matches have been reported as finalized by reliable sources but have not yet been added to the official card on UFC.com_
*Light Heavyweight bout: Antonio Rogerio Nogueira vs. Luiz Arthur Cane
Lightweight bout: Caol Uno vs. Fabricio Camoes
Welterweight bout: Brock Larson vs. Brian Foster*




(not the official promo)







​


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## evzbc (Oct 11, 2006)

Should be decent fights!

WAR Brock. 

LOL if Tito loses. I mean, I wouldn't want to fight Coleman....but, he's just slightly past his prime.

Fitch vs. Almeida = Decision?


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## KryptoNITE^^ (Jul 27, 2009)

Lesnar
Ortiz
Fitch


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## The_Sandman (Aug 16, 2009)

Lesnar is on "Fire" right now... Carwin does not stand a chance. 

I think Tito will beat Coleman... but I will rooting for Coleman. At his age, and still competing with the likes of Rua & Bonnar.... gotta give him props.


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## GMK13 (Apr 20, 2009)

KryptoNITE^^ said:


> Lesnar
> Ortiz
> Fitch


i agree 100%


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## turbohall (Aug 6, 2009)

Ok been out of the loop, I thought Carwin was fighting Cain? Then what happens if Cain beats Carwin? But I cant wait to see the fight Between Carwin and Brock so I can tell everyone that I told you Brock would beat Carwin.

I like Tito to win this fight, Coleman is old, but he has a lot of exp.

Dont care for the other fight too much but I would have to say Fitch.


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## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

turbohall said:


> Ok been out of the loop, I thought Carwin was fighting Cain? Then what happens if Cain beats Carwin? But I cant wait to see the fight Between Carwin and Brock so I can tell everyone that I told you Brock would beat Carwin.
> 
> I like Tito to win this fight, Coleman is old, but he has a lot of exp.
> 
> Dont care for the other fight too much but I would have to say Fitch.


Carwin vs Cain was cancelled.


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## turbohall (Aug 6, 2009)

Thanks been out of loop for about 3 days. I would have love to seen that one.


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## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

Yeah, Cain is fighting Ben Rothwell at UFC 104.


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## FiReMaN11d7 (Jun 30, 2009)

Dang this card is lookin pretty good


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## Tomislav III (Aug 22, 2009)

Ugh. I despise Brock Lesnar and the easy-street he's had to getting that belt by beating one old man, a broken down Herring, and Frank Mir - to have a 4 and 1 guy as the number one fighter in the most watched MMA organization in the world makes the entire sport look really rather amateur. 

All that said, I'm not as confident in Shane Carwin. I think he has better striking, slightly better take-down and wrestling _defense_, and probably more heart, but his weaknesses really seem to be on the paper side. 

It just goes to show how thin the UFC's heavyweight division really is more than anything else. 

I'm not at all a believer in Brock Lesnar. But I'm going to give him a slight advantage at about 55/45 chance at winning.


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## jennathebenda (Jul 24, 2009)

Im going with Brock in this one.


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## gaz_berserk (Aug 23, 2009)

N1™ said:


> *Announced matchups :*
> 
> *Heavyweight Championship bout: Brock Lesnar (c) vs. Shane Carwin
> Light Heavyweight bout: Mark Coleman vs. Tito Ortiz
> Welterweight bout: Jon Fitch vs. Ricardo Almeida *​


Brock win by tko
Ortiz win by tko
fitch win by decision


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

It's the battle of the bully's but Brock is just a bigger bully. He is going to take Carwin down and, if the mat doesn't fracture, he will grind him out.
Kind of a gimme fight for Ortiz. 
For the first time Fitch might have an advantage on the feet. Fitch by KO. :thumb02:


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## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

Hmm, some solid match ups lined up for this event. I want Tito to win this fight just so he can stick around to fight rematch Rashad at a later date so that all doubt can be removed, but I will still be cheering for Coleman and would normally want him to win.

Fitch should take the win here in what could be FOTN, and I would bet on Brock to take out Carwin, despite Brock disappointing me with his disrespect towards Mir.


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## GMK13 (Apr 20, 2009)

im gonna go out on a limb and i would be a god if i was right. Brock wins by arm bar!


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

Not looking forward to Fitch vs. Almeida going to be a borefest. Ortiz vs. Coleman might be good. Though that might turn into borefest. Carwin vs. Brock will be good. 

So far the match card is decent.


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## Hawk (Aug 3, 2009)

I say Lesnar


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## Tacx0911 (Aug 12, 2009)

Lesnar 2nd Round TKO via GNP. Carwin will gas out in the first round, Brock finishes him in the 2nd.


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## gaz_berserk (Aug 23, 2009)

Devil_Bingo said:


> Not looking forward to Fitch vs. Almeida going to be a borefest. Ortiz vs. Coleman might be good. Though that might turn into borefest. Carwin vs. Brock will be good.
> 
> So far the match card is decent.


why borefest?


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

Fitch is ok-ish but Almeida is boring. Fitch's last fight was boring. So that fight probably will be boring.

Ortiz takes people down and pounds. Coleman does the same. Could turn into borefest if the one of them takes the other down and does nothing which is likely to happen.


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## gaz_berserk (Aug 23, 2009)

Devil_Bingo said:


> Fitch is ok-ish but Almeida is boring. Fitch's last fight was boring. So that fight probably will be boring.
> 
> Ortiz takes people down and pounds. Coleman does the same. Could turn into borefest if the one of them takes the other down and does nothing which is likely to happen.


some people like to see the ground game submission attempts... some like the pounding some like the striking...
i like it all... and is not bornig for me


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Carwin via KO in the 1st.


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## KryptoNITE^^ (Jul 27, 2009)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Carwin via KO in the 1st.


Any explanation to this at all?


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

KryptoNITE^^ said:


> Any explanation to this at all?


Carwin has more experience, heavier hands, stronger GnP, and he negates the most important aspect to Lesnar's game, the size advantage. If Lesnar takes him down, he will have to work a lot harder to keep him down than he did with Mir or HH. And when Carwin gets back to his feet and connects, Lesnar will go down.


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## Tomislav III (Aug 22, 2009)

GMK13 said:


> im gonna go out on a limb and i would be a god if i was right. Brock wins by arm bar!


I don't think Brock knows what an arm bar is.


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## lpbigd4444 (Oct 1, 2008)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Carwin has more experience, heavier hands, stronger GnP, and he negates the most important aspect to Lesnar's game, the size advantage. If Lesnar takes him down, he will have to work a lot harder to keep him down than he did with Mir or HH. And when Carwin gets back to his feet and connects, Lesnar will go down.


I like Brocks reach and his power. Gonzaga was able to rock and take down Carwin and Lesnar is the best wrestler the HW division has seen so I look for Lesnar to surprise some people with how he still takes Carwin down and pounds him out despite Carwins size and wrestling background. I feel like Lesnars hands are at least close to as heavy as Carwins and if you look at Mir and Herring I have never seen Carwin mess up somebodys face like that especially with the Mir fights being so short.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Carwin by TKO. I hate that the Cain fight was cancelled because i wanted to see a little more out of both of those fighters. This fight wil be Entertaining though. At least it will answer questions about both of these guys games. Brock has been dominating and i think he definately can Kong his way into a W if he gets carwin down. We will see and i hope the Carwin proves he is a beast and finishes another person in under two minutes. Fitch and Tito will win one way or the other.


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## Dream-On-101 (Jun 4, 2009)

Lesnar will demolish Carwin. 
I can also see Ortiz taking the win, and I think Almeida will submit Fitch!


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## Suvaco (Mar 31, 2007)

gaz_berserk said:


> some people like to see the ground game submission attempts... some like the pounding some like the striking...
> i like it all... and is not bornig for me


Fitch doesn't really do much of either. Especially in this fight. Fich-Almeida is going to look a lot like Cote-Almeida.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

lpbigd4444 said:


> I like Brocks reach and his power. Gonzaga was able to rock and take down Carwin and Lesnar is the best wrestler the HW division has seen so I look for Lesnar to surprise some people with how he still takes Carwin down and pounds him out despite Carwins size and wrestling background. I feel like Lesnars hands are at least close to as heavy as Carwins and if you look at Mir and Herring I have never seen Carwin mess up somebodys face like that especially with the Mir fights being so short.


I actually disagree a lot with the similarity in their hands. Lesnar drilled HH, but HH immediately recovered and was not even close to being unconscious. In the first Mir fight, Lesnar dropped Mir, but he again was immediately recovered and at no point was on his way out. Lesnar hit Couture behind the ear and after 1 million forearms in a split second, Couture was still not out cold. Second Mir fight, Brock lands on Mir's face a lot, but it took awhile for him to sleep. Carwin taps Gonzaga with a short right hand without throwing his body into it and Gonzaga is coiled up against the cage. Carwin definitely hits a lot harder. Yes Gonzaga took Carwin down, but GG is no slouch, and had already rocked Carwin. If Carwin wasn't rocked would he have been taken down? I doubt it, but thats anybody's guess. GG is also a world class BJJ player and couldn't do anything from the top position and Carwin got right back up.


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## elessarcif (Jul 12, 2009)

Lesnar Via TKO

I really think people that are picking Carwen are just hoping that Lesnar loses. The first round will decide this fight. I really dont think Carwen lasts much after that had lack of experience past the first is really going to hurt him. I do think this is going to be a fun fight but I only give Carwen a punchers chance of winning. If he doesnt catch Lesnar he wont win.


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## Scorch (Apr 2, 2007)

I _really_ wanted to see Carwin fight Velasquez. Especially while they are both undefeated. That would have been an _insane_ fight. But, in the long run, I did want Carwin to win that and see him go on to fight Brock. So, I'm still getting part of what I wanted. 

Anyway, Carwin isnt going to Submit brock, or out-wrestle him, or out-power him. His only chance will be a big punch. I believe Carwin has better standup. But brock is better at everything else. Carwin will probably be on his back a lot and end up getting pounded out.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

It's going to be a great fight. I give it to Lesnar.


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## AceofSpades187 (Apr 18, 2009)

i heard carwin doesnt train full time as a mma fighter:thumbsdown: this is why i see him losing i do respect his heavy hands thow


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## turbohall (Aug 6, 2009)

Well dont forget the mind game does a lot of stuff too. Carwin has done a lot of talking and interviews, Brock don't really do a lot of talking, don't get me wrong he does interviews but not like Carwin. Carwin talked a lot like Mir did and Brock let his hands do the walking and you all saw the out come. Brock trains way more and harder then Carwin does. GG didn't really go to sleep either way he got dropped but he was still awake. Brock punch Randy standing and stunned him good and then caught him in the SIDE of the head and dropped him and Randy couldn't get up when the ref stopped it, nor could Mir. GG got right up after they stopped the fight. I don't think Carwin has been tested yet and this fight will test him. Oh and Brock can take a punch, first round with Randy, Randy nailed him with a elbow and didn't slow Brock down. Then Brock took a knee from Randy and it didn't stun him. So I think Brock will surprise everyone when he gets popped by Carwin and still wins.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

turbohall said:


> Well dont forget the mind game does a lot of stuff too. Carwin has done a lot of talking and interviews, Brock don't really do a lot of talking, don't get me wrong he does interviews but not like Carwin. Carwin talked a lot like Mir did and Brock let his hands do the walking and you all saw the out come. Brock trains way more and harder then Carwin does. GG didn't really go to sleep either way he got dropped but he was still awake. Brock punch Randy standing and stunned him good and then caught him in the SIDE of the head and dropped him and Randy couldn't get up when the ref stopped it, nor could Mir. GG got right up after they stopped the fight. I don't think Carwin has been tested yet and this fight will test him. Oh and Brock can take a punch, first round with Randy, Randy nailed him with a elbow and didn't slow Brock down. Then Brock took a knee from Randy and it didn't stun him. So I think Brock will surprise everyone when he gets popped by Carwin and still wins.


Brock doesn't do a lot of talking? Did you bury your head in the sand for months before UFC 100? Brock talks more shit than most any fighter out there. Not to mention he throws little temper tantrums like a child. Brock trains harder? How do you know? Theres not too much training material from Carwin so you can't really say. 

Also, you are completely wrong about the Carwin vs GG fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsGpNKzGxG8

GG is completely out, wakes back up, and still can't get up. Hes still not standing at the end of the video.

And just because you get hit by Randy and keep moving doesn't mean you can take a punch. How many people has Randy KO'd standing? How many people has he dropped standing? Big Tim only, I think. Most LHW's hit harder than Randy, and definitely most all HW's hit harder than him.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Dude it is possible he will gas but i doubt it. He has not been out of the first round and the only thing i can think might happen if it does last longer is carwin will have to get a second wind. I train down here in Albuquerque, not under Greg Jackson (who is known for getting his fighters in the best shape out there), but i notice whenever i fight or run in other places in different altitudes i have a lot of energy and can breath really easy for a lot longer, but i get tired out of no where. So if carwin does gas, i think he will lose very fast, but i doubt he will. I would say that if you only give carwin a punchers chance it is foolish. He has beaten everyone he has ever fought in under 2 minutes. I am dissapointed he did not fight cain so he could have another big name under his belt... but i guess they needed an opponent to fight brock and Carwin has been calling him out for a while.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Brock doesn't do a lot of talking? Did you bury your head in the sand for months before UFC 100? Brock talks more shit than most any fighter out there.


#1. Pre-Fight talk is done for marketing sake, and begins a few months prior to the event, as executed by the UFC promotional department. The UFC promotion is dubbed "The Machine" for their ability to market a fight with hype & dramatics.

#2. Mir had been talking head for about the entire year, without any obligatory promotional purposes or any other reason other then being a prick. Mir was just being a dick. No pre-fight anything, he was just trash talking all day, all year. A lot of what Brock had to say were in response to Mir running his pu$$y lips.

#3. I agree we can't make any comparisons to their training regiments, but considering Carwin is not a FULL-TIME fighter, who works a regular 9-5 job, while Brock is a full time fighter, there are some logistical conclusions you can make of that situation in regards to their training.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Tell me where you are getting this Carwin does not train all the time? I need to see for myself because i have not heard this. Brock talks a lot of trash and so does Mir as well as Carwin, but i would not say any of that says anything about how they will perform in the cage. Brock talks just as much as most fighters. I really think Mir had a reason to talk Sh*t. As foolish as it is to talk as much trash as pro fighters do, Mir beat Lesnar and in his very next fight he KOes a legend and he has to fight someone he just beat again for the title? It seems foolish to me. I think brock showed he is better but it is still foolish the way all that played out.


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## Suvaco (Mar 31, 2007)

The505Butcher said:


> Tell me where you are getting this Carwin does not train all the time? I need to see for myself because i have not heard this. Brock talks a lot of trash and so does Mir as well as Carwin, but i would not say any of that says anything about how they will perform in the cage. Brock talks just as much as most fighters. I really think Mir had a reason to talk Sh*t. As foolish as it is to talk as much trash as pro fighters do, Mir beat Lesnar and in his very next fight he KOes a legend and he has to fight someone he just beat again for the title? It seems foolish to me. I think brock showed he is better but it is still foolish the way all that played out.


" Meanwhile, Carwin still holds down a full-time job as an engineer at the North Weld County Water District in Colorado. So far, it hasn’t affected his performance inside the Octagon — he’s undefeated with three first round finishes that have lasted little more than three minutes combined."

From: http://mmamania.com/2009/08/20/shane-carwin-honored-to-fight-brock-lesnar-at-ufc-106/


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

The505Butcher said:


> Tell me where you are getting this Carwin does not train all the time? I need to see for myself because i have not heard this. Brock talks a lot of trash and so does Mir as well as Carwin, but i would not say any of that says anything about how they will perform in the cage. Brock talks just as much as most fighters. I really think Mir had a reason to talk Sh*t. As foolish as it is to talk as much trash as pro fighters do, Mir beat Lesnar and in his very next fight he KOes a legend and he has to fight someone he just beat again for the title? It seems foolish to me. I think brock showed he is better but it is still foolish the way all that played out.


He's a full-time mechanical engineer, I sort of thought that was his signature and common knowledge. 




> And you still work as an engineer in addition to being a professional fighter?
> Yeah, I'm still full-time for the North Weld County Water District. I help develop and work on the hydraulic model, subdivision review, new infrastructure review, stuff like that.


http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/02/25/shane-carwin-full-time-engineer-undefeated-ufc-heavyweight/



> What was your job before you started fighting? Currently still an Engineer


http://www.wec.tv/ShaneCarwin

I could go on....


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Engineers are highly intelligent & hard working people (my uncle is an electrical engineer and my sister is a civil engineer), so all the respect due to his intelligence, but.... we're not talking academics.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Suvaco said:


> " Meanwhile, Carwin still holds down a full-time job as an engineer at the North Weld County Water District in Colorado. So far, it hasn’t affected his performance inside the Octagon — he’s undefeated with three first round finishes that have lasted little more than three minutes combined."
> 
> From: http://mmamania.com/2009/08/20/shane-carwin-honored-to-fight-brock-lesnar-at-ufc-106/


This has got me curious now... because he trains down in Mew Mexico but how can he also have a job up there in Colorado? Does Jackson go up there to train him?
Does He just come down and gets off work for a while? that will be a big factor. I want to know how he is handling it.

And sorry i do not look at his life and what his job is. If we are looking at fighting and not academics, Carwin has never lost, Lesnar has. I don't know, this fight could go either way. I still want to see how Carwin handles training and things like that when he prepares for a fight.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

The505Butcher said:


> This has got me curious now... because he trains down in Mew Mexico but how can he also have a job up there in Colorado? Does Jackson go up there to train him?
> Does He just come down and gets off work for a while? that will be a big factor. I want to know how he is handling it.


Maybe he trains in New Mexico (3-6 months) pre-fight? :confused02: Like how Tito goes and lives in Big Bear for elevation training pre-fight.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

VolcomX311 said:


> Maybe he trains in New Mexico (3-6 months) pre-fight? :confused02: Like how Tito goes and lives in Big Bear for elevation training pre-fight.


Maybe. I am looking for links on how he does it now but have not found it. Think he will stop and train full time after this fight? I mean he wins and he has something to keep and he has to work hard to make sure he keeps it. If he loses it could be something to drive him to do better?


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-Carwin, I'm pro Carwin, but even more pro Lesnar, so my vote goes to Lesnar for the win in this respective fight, but it's not a one-sided desire as it was with Mir/Lesnar. 

Carwin's definitely legit, both athletically and academically. The man has two degrees. I definitely respect him as a fighter on multiple a spectrum, but against Lesnar, as a fighter. I'm hoping his canned hams beat out Cariwin's lunch pales.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

The505Butcher said:


> Maybe. I am looking for links on how he does it now but have not found it. Think he will stop and train full time after this fight? I mean he wins and he has something to keep and he has to work hard to make sure he keeps it. If he loses it could be something to drive him to do better?


That's hard to say. If Carwin makes Lesnar money, then it's more likely, but the man is an Engineer, it's not like Cheick Kongo who stacks tires for a living. Carwin doesn't "need" to succeed as a fighter, like many of these fighters do and he already has a family to think about. Of course he wants to be the best like every other fighter, but he just doesn't "need" it, in order to make something of his life as far as financial security . Again, Carwin would need to make Lesnar money to walk away from his degree earned gig.

It also depends what level of engineer he is, level I engineers in CO average $58-$65K a year (I believe), but the pay scale goes up to Level III (I think).

To everyone else, I apologize for the off topic nature this conversation took.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Ha ha... Yeah back onto topic i can not wait for this fight! i thought it was going to happen anyways cause i really did not see Cain beating Carwin, but Now i get to see it sooner! maybe... i do not know how it all would have played out. anyways, I want carwin to not take this lightly and i do not think he will. It is possible but the only scenario that will happen where i do not get any of my questions answered is if Lesnar gets a quick take down and Donky Kongs Carwin in the first round for a win. If it goes longer than the second then i would be happy. I at least would get some of them answered and it would be a good fight.


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## Tomislav III (Aug 22, 2009)

VolcomX311 said:


> Engineers are highly intelligent & hard working people (my uncle is an electrical engineer and my sister is a civil engineer), so all the respect due to his intelligence, but.... we're not talking academics.


So intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with fighting?


I think just the opposite. I think intelligence is the most important part of fighting.


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## N-Como (Aug 25, 2009)

Even with Carwin's knockout power, I don't see him having much more than a puncher's chance against Brock. Carwin seemed to me to have very slow and robotic movements against Gonzaga. He was even taken down by Gabriel (got right back up but still). Brock just seems to be a freak of nature to me, IMO Carwin is going to be overwhelmed by Brock's speed and size. I see this fight possibly like a mirror of Brock vs Mir, Brocks gonna push back with his reach may get rocked (but from Carwin's punch and not knees like Mir did) but it goes right to the ground where Shane gets TKOed. That is my prediction.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

N-Como said:


> Even with Carwin's knockout power, I don't see him having much more than a puncher's chance against Brock. Carwin seemed to me to have very slow and robotic movements against Gonzaga. He was even taken down by Gabriel (got right back up but still). Brock just seems to be a freak of nature to me, IMO Carwin is going to be overwhelmed by Brock's speed and size. I see this fight possibly like a mirror of Brock vs Mir, Brocks gonna push back with his reach may get rocked (but from Carwin's punch and not knees like Mir did) but it goes right to the ground where Shane gets TKOed. That is my prediction.


The reason you say this is because that is all brock does... I like him but i hope he gets more diversity. i think Carwin is the person to teach Lesnar he needs a new gameplan if he wants to stay the top. Konging people for a win will only work so many times.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Tomislav III said:


> So intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with fighting?
> 
> 
> I think just the opposite. I think intelligence is the most important part of fighting.


Oi...

Fighting is a form of intelligence, yes. Environment awareness, physical coordination, mental offensive strategy, anticipatory defensive/counter strategy, mental & physical adaption, offensive/defensive/counter timing are all forms of intelligence. 

However, being good at algebra does not automatically translate to executing flying arm bars, nor does the ability to write a Gregorian essay translate to striking accuracy. 

C'mon, was I really making the case that intelligence in general had nothing to do with fighting in my post. I made a comment to the tone of Carwin's academic achievements won't win his fight against Lesnar. There are varying realms of intelligence (not just academic) and my point (that I wasn't really trying to make, but if you had to choose an implication), was that being good at parabolic equations does not indicate what level of a fighter you are.


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## Tomislav III (Aug 22, 2009)

VolcomX311 said:


> Oi...
> 
> Fighting is a form of intelligence, yes. Environment awareness, physical coordination, mental offensive strategy, anticipatory defensive/counter strategy, mental & physical adaption, offensive/defensive/counter timing are all forms of intelligence.
> 
> ...


Well, you're right. That doesn't in itself show it, but it is evidence, don't you think?

I mean, if we assume Carwin is intelligent enough to get along in the world engineering - which isn't an easy thing to do - then I would take a chance and assume he has a fairly good head on his shoulders. From interviews I've seen with him, he looks like a pretty level headed guy, very grounded, and articulate enough to hold a good conversation with.

My point is more analytic than anything. A guy who has the capacity to analyze complex number problems probably has a good disposition at analyzing other fighters. I just think it gives him a distinct advantage in a fight, is all.


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## Tomislav III (Aug 22, 2009)

Amun said:


> This is why I love the UFC. You would think Dana would start protecting Brock since he's the biggest draw, but nope, they're putting him in their with one of the biggest threats to beat him already.
> 
> That said,
> Lesnar TKO round 2.
> ...


I disagree with your prediction and bringing Fedor into this - people that think he's afraid simply don't understand the business side of anything.


That said, I do agree that I like that Dana is throwing him to a wolf like Carwin early on.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Tomislav III said:


> Well, you're right. That doesn't in itself show it, but it is evidence, don't you think?
> 
> I mean, if we assume Carwin is intelligent enough to get along in the world engineering - which isn't an easy thing to do - then I would take a chance and assume he has a fairly good head on his shoulders. From interviews I've seen with him, he looks like a pretty level headed guy, very grounded, and articulate enough to hold a good conversation with.
> 
> My point is more analytic than anything. A guy who has the capacity to analyze complex number problems probably has a good disposition at analyzing other fighters. I just think it gives him a distinct advantage in a fight, is all.


I have two words to abolish the theory that academic excellence has any implications toward fight intellect, Mike Tyson.

Another example, college grad Kenny Florian vs non college educated BJ Penn, that degree had no advantage in Kenflo coming up with a strategic plan to overcome BJ. 

However, I do see what you're saying about analytical skills, but being able to break down equations on paper, where you have all the time in the world to sift through various thought processes, are different from having split seconds to analyze and react in a fight.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

VolcomX311 said:


> I have two words to abolish the theory that academic excellence has any implications toward fight intellect, Mike Tyson.


HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't tell him that though... i watched the Hangover and "He's still got it!"

Funny post though.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

The505Butcher said:


> HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't tell him that though... i watched the Hangover and "He's still got it!"
> 
> Funny post though.


I still love Mike Tyson to this day, retarded and all. He was my child hood beast hero and his domination of a sport is still one of the most legendary. His highlight videos are still the best and most punishing. It's too bad how he ended up, but that man was the beast of beasts.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

VolcomX311 said:


> I still love Mike Tyson to this day, retarded and all. He was my child hood beast hero and his domination of a sport is still one of the most legendary. His highlight videos are still the best and most punishing. It's too bad how he ended up, but that man was the beast of beasts.


Agreed. i would have him beating any boxer even ali and he would give Marciano one fight. but i am a little more of a marciano fan than i am a Tyson fan.

Back on subject again though, I think that having the mind to get through engineering definately helps. He has proven that he is not just a smart pencil pusher by beating everyone in under two minutes, and he has a very big figure to fight against. I think that having the mind he does have only helps and i have noticed that he uses it to time that right hammer of a fist into the chin of his opponents.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

I'm sure you've seen the recent doc of Mike Tyson. If you haven't, you should. Tyson is hardly retarded; he's actually highly intelligent; his analytical skills are most clearly evident in his ability to absorb information on the fight game, on his vocation, but he's very articulate, sharp and quick in general. His early interviews in particular, display an astonishing command of his understanding of the trajectory of his own career, and his place in the fight game, historically speaking.

As far as some of his decision making being "retarded"; I would say that his financial decision making was less than brilliant. But keep in mind that he was being exploited financially from day one beginning at the age of 18 or 19. And he had reached his prime by his early 20's. I doubt many of us had an outstanding working knowledge of finance by that age. 

As far as his personal life, I tend to doubt Desiree Washington's claims. Tyson upholds his innocence to this day, and given the literal tidal wave of clearly false accusations of **** even just recently, I am even more confident than ever that Tyson was and is truly innocent of such charges. 

Sorry to go off topic like that, but Tyson is truly a fascinating figure, who is terribly misunderstood. Until the release of Tyson that is. 



VolcomX311 said:


> I still love Mike Tyson to this day, retarded and all. He was my child hood beast hero and his domination of a sport is still one of the most legendary. His highlight videos are still the best and most punishing. It's too bad how he ended up, but that man was the beast of beasts.


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## Tomislav III (Aug 22, 2009)

Amun said:


> To clarify. I don't think Fedor is afraid to fight anyone, but he has strong ties to M1, and both he and M1 know that if he loses M1 is finished. Therefore both parties, in the best interest of their business, are protecting Fedor's legacy, or at least keeping it in their own hands - and not subjecting Fedor to the UFC's matchmaking.


From what I understand of the M-1 business, Fedor has almost no say - or interest - in the actual business part of M-1. 


All Fedor seems to do is fight and I think that's smart. That should be all he focuses on. If he actually is behind the scenes of the business than that would be their greatest mistake of all.


I don't think M-1 didn't sign with UFC for any reason other than that M-1 wants to be a big name in MMA and didn't see it as possible with the UFC due to the conflict over co-promotion.

To say Fedor is afraid of losing or that M-1 is afraid he would lose in the UFC, I think, just over-estimates how much talent the UFC has in its heavyweight division, or at least how much talent M-1 thinks it has.



VolcomX311 said:


> However, I do see what you're saying about analytical skills, but being able to break down equations on paper, where you have all the time in the world to sift through various thought processes, are different from having split seconds to analyze and react in a fight.


It's true that a class room is obviously different from a ring or a cage, but I would still contend that people who have the analytical skills to make it in academics probably also have at least a disposition to using those analytical skills in fighting.

As for Mike Tyson, I think that's a special case of a guy getting over-excited and being too caught up in the moment of fame. I think Tyson wanted to be in the spot-light and there's a vicious cycle that comes with that.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Tomislav III said:


> It's true that a class room is obviously different from a ring or a cage, but I would still contend that people who have the analytical skills to make it in academics probably also have at least a disposition to using those analytical skills in fighting.


I’m not saying there is zero correlation, I was arguing that there was not a "direct" correlation.

You really are preaching to the choir about athletics & intelligence. I’m a strength & conditioning coach with a specialty in Reaction Time, Pre-RT Mental Process/Increasing neuron firing of acetylcholines, so for a more accurate analogy, your preaching to the preacher. We’re not in disagreement as to the idea in general, but we’ll agree to disagree as to what extent that transfer is. Furthermore, to reiterate a point I made earlier, a highly intelligent mental processor, does not mean it’s also a fast processor.

They say fighting is like a chess game, but chess pieces don't high kick you if you take too long to make a move.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Fedor owned like 20% of M-1 didn't he? So he was caring about how the business was being run. 

I disagree. if you have the skills in the classroom, it does not mean you know how to use them in the cage. It probably helps, but if that were true then there would be a lot of people who would drop any bully out there. I think that you need to put your mind to it all and in training for fighting in the cage is where a sharper mind will help learn the timing, tendencies, and tactics of your opponent and of what you need to do.


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## Tomislav III (Aug 22, 2009)

Amun said:


> http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/up...rce-comment-fedor-m-1-swing-back-at-ufc-18948
> 
> 
> Fedor Emilianenko: “I have the full control of the contracts and my career as well, and I get all the time financial reports and all contracts and all important issues are being discussed with me, and everything that I don’t like Vadim (Finkelstein) tries to stand for,” said Emelianenko through a translator. “I need to tell you I have complete control of everything that’s going on.”


That doesn't sound canned at all...



VolcomX311 said:


> I’m not saying there is zero correlation, I was arguing that there was not a "direct" correlation.
> 
> You really are preaching to the choir about athletics & intelligence. I’m a strength & conditioning coach with a specialty in Reaction Time, Pre-RT Mental Process/Increasing neuron firing of acetylcholines, so for a more accurate analogy, your preaching to the preacher. We’re not in disagreement as to the idea in general, but we’ll agree to disagree as to what extent that transfer is. Furthermore, to reiterate a point I made earlier, a highly intelligent mental processor, does not mean it’s also a fast processor.
> 
> They say fighting is like a chess game, but chess pieces don't high kick you if you take too long to make a move.


No, I agree I don't think that there's any disagreement between the two of us. I think I just might put a little more weight on it than you do, which is fine. Just a difference of scale, really.


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## Dream-On-101 (Jun 4, 2009)

Dream-On-101 said:


> Lesnar will demolish Carwin.
> I can also see Ortiz taking the win, and I think Almeida will submit Fitch!



First of all, thanks to whomever gave me a neg rep for this, on the basis i hadnt explained my predictions. Seems a bit lame but there you are :sarcastic12:

Anyhow, seen as I was asked I shall answer. I think Brock, as I have stated on other threads, will take Carwin down, and do exactly what he did to Mir. I think Carwin will be suprised by Brocks strength, and as i have also previously said, Brock is going to improve dramatically between each fight. And he already looked pretty damn impressive against Mir. And no, Carwin wont be able to defend the take down.

I see Tito making a triumphant return, probably via GnP, and probably in the 2nd or 3rd. I think Coleman will gas quicker than Tito and I cant see him being a threat standing. Tito is likely to out-wrestle him when it hits the ground, picking up the win. 

And finally i see Almeida submitting Fitch, because...actually I dont know. Call it a hunch :thumb02:


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## turbohall (Aug 6, 2009)

The505Butcher said:


> The reason you say this is because that is all brock does... I like him but i hope he gets more diversity. i think Carwin is the person to teach Lesnar he needs a new gameplan if he wants to stay the top. Konging people for a win will only work so many times.


I guess you didn't watch the fight between Brock and Randy, most of the fight was a stand-up fight, yea Brock was getting punched and he was also punching Randy. But Brock took Randy down and Randy got back up, but Brock rocked Randy twice once made his legs look like jelly, the other on dropped him and Brock speed kicked in and he started GNP. So I think he can do stand-up and he moves better then Carwin.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

turbohall said:


> I guess you didn't watch the fight between Brock and Randy, most of the fight was a stand-up fight, yea Brock was getting punched and he was also punching Randy. But Brock took Randy down and Randy got back up, but Brock rocked Randy twice once made his legs look like jelly, the other on dropped him and Brock speed kicked in and he started GNP. So I think he can do stand-up and he moves better then Carwin.


He does not move better than Carwin. He is quicker for sure but i have yet to see really good head movement. granted Carwin's is not the great too. Brock's stand up right now is extremelly one demensional. i watched the Randy fight. He pressed him against the cage most of the time. That is not what i would call a stand up fight. Bracks stand up consists of a lot of stiff jabs, and straight rights that have power only because he is 285 pounds of muscle. I would like nothing more than for Brock to prove me wrong and work on his boxing for this fight and then i would be all for him winning because really he is a younger version of carwin. I would like to see fights of Lesnar being dominant anywhere the fight takes place. Right now i have seen a serious short coming in his offensive stand up. which is why he is smart and takes everyone down into his zone. I think this could become a GnP wrestling match between the two. Just because i do not know if Carwin has the speed to get away from Lesnar's TD so he might look for one of his own, seeing as how Lesnar might not be able to hurt Carwin coming in for a TD.


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## Tomislav III (Aug 22, 2009)

Amun said:


> You said he doesn't have any control over the business aspect of his career yet I post a link with him saying he has complete control over his career and now you're coming up with a conspiracy theory that what he said is canned? Nice.


People should probably learn what a conspiracy theory is before claiming someone is talking about one.


I'm saying that it's really doubtful that Fedor has much if anything to do with the business dealings of M-1, especially if - as you say - he's M-1's golden cow. Why in the hell would Finkelstien even allow Fedor to get into the business room without giving him a swift Russian kick in the butt to get back to the gym?


Does that make any sense to you?


No, but what would make sense is an athlete claiming to have control over his contract when his manager is being criticized as controlling Fedor without Fedor's say in the business dealings by sources as wide ranging as his brother.



The505Butcher said:


> He does not move better than Carwin. He is quicker for sure but i have yet to see really good head movement. granted Carwin's is not the great too. Brock's stand up right now is extremelly one demensional. i watched the Randy fight. He pressed him against the cage most of the time. That is not what i would call a stand up fight. Bracks stand up consists of a lot of stiff jabs, and straight rights that have power only because he is 285 pounds of muscle. I would like nothing more than for Brock to prove me wrong and work on his boxing for this fight and then i would be all for him winning because really he is a younger version of carwin. I would like to see fights of Lesnar being dominant anywhere the fight takes place. Right now i have seen a serious short coming in his offensive stand up. which is why he is smart and takes everyone down into his zone. I think this could become a GnP wrestling match between the two. Just because i do not know if Carwin has the speed to get away from Lesnar's TD so he might look for one of his own, seeing as how Lesnar might not be able to hurt Carwin coming in for a TD.



Unless Lesnar spears Carwin or Carwin just lets Lesnar take him to the ground without using any form of movement or the cage, I'm not as concerned about his take down defense. 


Maybe I'm underestimating, but I've never seen it as being that difficult to avoid take downs. Maybe that just comes naturally though and Carwin doesn't have it... I don't know.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Tomislav III said:


> Maybe I'm underestimating, but I've never seen it as being that difficult to avoid take downs. Maybe that just comes naturally though and Carwin doesn't have it... I don't know.


A lot of factors influence a fighter's sprawl, explosive speed obviously and being tall is a nasty advantage (assuming you can maintain explosiveness). A long torso launches your hips further back for greater inaccessibility, a long body also equates to a stronger leveraged position and missing a shoot on a long, big body, usually means you end up underneath them if you miff and that sucks. Especially for double legs, if you miff that on a big guy, he can drop down on you and roll you over into side mount if he's strong enough, or north/south (though wrestlers don't traditionally work too much from north/south.), or a guillotine attempt (though I don't see Brock executing that option, ever, I've only seen that kind of technical talent from MW's and below). All these physiological (sprawl) advantages would apply to both Brock & Carwin. 

However, I've mentioned this before, Brock doesn't really shoot in from a distance, he likes to have his hands on you (liken to college wrestling), then dropping down with a scoop, which is still defend-able with a sprawl and I'm sure Carwin will handle himself fine.

The real bitch about sprawls and Fedor, are that Fedor primarily uses double under-hooks or sometimes all he needs is to wrap your upper torso to leverage a judo TD and he finds that leverage QUICK!!!

I think was most impressed with his leverage awareness against [email protected] secs in:





 

However, Fedor tried that same move on Hong [email protected] secs in, but Choi Boy was just too heavy (Hong Choi 330lbs, Brock 285lbs :wink03







The hardest thing about the sprawl is reading the TD offense and having the reaction time to do it, but HW don't "NORMALLY" _nail_ their sprawls. Traditionally, if you nail a sprawl, then that's-that. However, if you quasi-nail it, in that you avoid a TD; in the UFC you have the option of pushing your opponent against the cage if you quasi-miffed a shoot, but you at least have some kind of grasp of the guy, so we'll see. 

Go Brock.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Gratuitous violence.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Yeah i am not saying that they both will want to stay on the ground... if anything i see Carwin wanting to stay standing unless he has seriously hurt brock and for sure get the TD. I just think that Brock is very good at TDs and he really only has one way of beating Carwin and that will be to take him down and GnP. I see a lot of TD attempts by brock even if he gets stuffed a couple of times.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

The505Butcher said:


> Yeah i am not saying that they both will want to stay on the ground... if anything i see Carwin wanting to stay standing unless he has seriously hurt brock and for sure get the TD. I just think that Brock is very good at TDs and he really only has one way of beating Carwin and that will be to take him down and GnP. I see a lot of TD attempts by brock even if he gets stuffed a couple of times.


Oh yeah, I agree. I'm relatively neutral as to the stand up situation between the two, but the tide of opinions say Carwin has the stand up advantage and I have no real discord with that. I think Brock's best and maybe ONLY chance is to GnP as well.


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## turbohall (Aug 6, 2009)

So let me ask this, what kind of chin does Carwin have, GG is the only one to hit him and it stunned him, what will happen when Brock hits him, if he falls will you see Brock hits harder then GG. Plus GG took him down and Brock is better wrestler then GG. Now what kind of chin does Brock have, I have seen him take a elbow from Randy and some punches, he also took a knee from Randy, none of those stunned him but made him aware that he was in a fight. Then I have seen Mir hit him once not a good punch, and seen Mir double knee him right before he finished Mir. Brock was stunned but still had the smarts to hold Mir and get position to finish the fight, even Brock said he saw birds. But didn't KO Brock. So how will Brock handle Carwins power punch. Remember Carwin TKO GG but that is like the biggest name he fought the rest was cans with no chins.


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

Im excited about this fight im a lil worried about Brocks chin tho.....the fight is gonna end with a KO if carwin is brave enough to let brock inside hes gonna shoot and game over...but i really see this fight goin both ways but im pullin for brock:thumb02:


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

I find it strange that everyone likes to make the point that Brock is an untested fighter.... who has Carwin fought to earn himself the moniker of a 'tested' fighter? 

Between the two of them, Brock is the only one who has fought a previous champion...(Brock doing so more than once). 

He might not have as many fights has Carwin, but he has more 'big fight' experience.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Not really Carwin's fault. everyone who has ever fought him has ended up losing in under 2 minutes. Brock has fought bigger names, but he has not been fighting for as long as Carwin. And Carwin is tested because he has fought 11 people. Lesnar has fought 4.

And turbohall who has brock really fought that had extremely powerful punches? The best striker he has fought was mir. and he was dazed by mir. I think Mir has good standup. but not as good or powerful as Carwin's boxing.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

The505Butcher said:


> Not really Carwin's fault. everyone who has ever fought him has ended up losing in under 2 minutes. Brock has fought bigger names, but he has not been fighting for as long as Carwin. And Carwin is tested because he has fought 11 people. Lesnar has fought 4.


I'm not looking for someone to place blame on. I'm simply mentioning Brock has more 'big fight' experience. You never know how someone is going to react until they've been there. Shane has never been in "the big fight" and Brock has. Could very well play a role in the fight. 

I personally like Brock in this fight because I think with the extra weight Carwin is rumored to be putting on, he's going to be slow and he's going to be working with limited energy. I think Shane's only hope is to create distance and use his lunch box hands to catch Brock.


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## sneakattack (Sep 2, 2009)

The problem that I have personally with Brock Lesnar is that other than Mir Brock really hasn't had what you would call a big fight. the heavy weights really haven't had a big over the top fighter for a long while. I think Mir proved that he could do damage against Brock standing up, but when 300 pounds of man gets on top of anyone there is little you can do. I hope carwin kicks his ass.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

sneakattack said:


> The problem that I have personally with Brock Lesnar is that other than Mir Brock really hasn't had what you would call a big fight. the heavy weights really haven't had a big over the top fighter for a long while. I think Mir proved that he could do damage against Brock standing up, but when 300 pounds of man gets on top of anyone there is little you can do. I hope carwin kicks his ass.


But with that same train of thought... everything that Brock is guilty of, so is the rest of the HW division. 

Define a big fight? He hasn't been in a war no, but he has been in a lot of high profile, but pressure fights. 

Further more, it's not his fault he's found a game plan that no one has an answer for. He does the same thing every other fighter does, finds a game plan to win a fight. Sure he's a little one dimensional, but until someone can prove that method to not be effective... why stop?


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

amoosenamedhank said:


> But with that same train of thought... everything that Brock is guilty of, so is the rest of the HW division.
> 
> Define a big fight? He hasn't been in a war no, but he has been in a lot of high profile, but pressure fights.
> 
> Further more, it's not his fault he's found a game plan that no one has an answer for. He does the same thing every other fighter does, finds a game plan to win a fight. Sure he's a little one dimensional, but until someone can prove that method to not be effective... why stop?


I agree that Brock should not be blamed for taking people down and beating them up. But we also have not seen Lesnar off his back. I want to see what he can do there. And i think Carwin has the skills to do it. The extra weight is only a worry to me if Carwin gasses. he has never really fought anyone for longer than like a minute and a half and if Lesnar does push it to round two or three i see him walking all over a gassed and tired Carwin... though i also do not really know on that either... i mean Carwin could be really good in the late rounds. and i would agree that his best chance is to drop the lunchboxes on Lesnar when they are standing up, but i do not think that is his only good chance.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

The505Butcher said:


> I agree that Brock should not be blamed for taking people down and beating them up. But we also have not seen Lesnar off his back. I want to see what he can do there. And i think Carwin has the skills to do it. The extra weight is only a worry to me if Carwin gasses. he has never really fought anyone for longer than like a minute and a half and if Lesnar does push it to round two or three i see him walking all over a gassed and tired Carwin... though i also do not really know on that either... i mean Carwin could be really good in the late rounds. and i would agree that his best chance is to drop the lunchboxes on Lesnar when they are standing up, but i do not think that is his only good chance.


Far enough... the only think about Brock being on his back... I don't really know if I'm too afraid of that with Carwin above him. If it was someone like Nog who would sub him immediately then I think Brock would be in big trouble. I don't see that being a threat from Carwin, and I'm thinking Brock should have the ability to scramble to his feet. 

On Carwins conditioning.... I think he's definitely hurting his ability to go more than one round :happy02: by adding on all of this weight. He's best chance for surviving multiple rounds (cardio wise) is to try to come in lean.

To me this shows he's expecting and almost banking on an early finish. I think he's gambling that the extra weight will help him to finish the fight, while risking his later round cardio... we'll see how it pays off.


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## sneakattack (Sep 2, 2009)

What I mean when I say BIG FIGHT is that he hasn't been in the ring with some one with the same size and power as him really. Brock is a monster, Im not blaming him for his tactics if it works then it works. but like I said his weight has played a very big factor in both of his last two fights. but you cant call throwing you weight on top of some one and beating the shit out of them much of a skill.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

sneakattack said:


> What I mean when I say BIG FIGHT is that he hasn't been in the ring with some one with the same size and power as him really. Brock is a monster, Im not blaming him for his tactics if it works then it works. but like I said his weight has played a very big factor in both of his last two fights. but you cant call throwing you weight on top of some one and beating the shit out of them much of a skill.


It will certainly be interesting to see... personally (obviously) I feel Brock will prevail but it will be interesting.

Maybe not a skill... but he sure does it well	:happy03:


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## sneakattack (Sep 2, 2009)

HA HA HA HA I totally agree!


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## FCO (Sep 2, 2009)

Tomislav III said:


> Ugh. I despise Brock Lesnar and the easy-street he's had to getting that belt by beating one old man, a broken down Herring, and Frank Mir - to have a 4 and 1 guy as the number one fighter in the most watched MMA organization in the world makes the entire sport look really rather amateur.
> 
> All that said, I'm not as confident in Shane Carwin. I think he has better striking, slightly better take-down and wrestling _defense_, and probably more heart, but his weaknesses really seem to be on the paper side.
> 
> ...


Agreed. You have to give the edge to Brock. There is not a lot of stiff competition in the heavyweight ranks in the UFC right now. I am really disappointed that Fedor was not able to work out something with the UFC. I really hope to see Fedor fight some "worthy" opponents while he is still in his prime.

-Chris
Full Contact Outlet - Brand Name MMA & Boxing Gear for cheap!
www.FullContactOutlet.com
Save Money. Fight Better.


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## turbohall (Aug 6, 2009)

Carwin has fought cans, the only true fighter he fought was GG and he beat him fast. But GG took him down, so that is why I think Brock will control him. But what if Carwin does gain all this weight he talks about and then he cant cut down to 265 what will happen who will step in. Brock does this ever fight and can do it, Carwin has never cut down, the most he ever weighed in at was 260, So if he wants to put on 30 pounds it is going to be nothing but water weight. So that dont match Brocks 285 or 290 of muscle. So Carwin will only hurt himself before the fight even happens. 

Also Carwin is trying the mind game by doing blogs and interviews, but it is not going to get into Brocks head because Brock dont own a computer, or get into all that stuff. Brock does talk smack when need to or after the fight only to get in the head of the next guy. If you talk the talk and walk the walk it kind of make the next guy think he might be a badass. I think Carwin is kind of scared now and that is why he is doing all this talking now. Carwin knows this is going to be his hardest fight to date, so in my own thought I think he is scared.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Turbo i am pretty sure that he cuts his weight too. I remember someone saying he does cut weight and he usually weighs a lot more than what he weighs in at. He does over cut sometimes though. 

And really? Carwin is scared? There are few fighters in the UFC that are actually scared of their opponents, and most of those are the opponents of Anderson Silva. Carwin is not scared about Lesnar at all. The media has no one else to talk to on this fight so they are printing the only fighter who will talk to them. He is not scared.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Carwin looks very comfortable standing, whereas Brock obviously is incredibly formidable as a wrestler. Once Brock gets it to the ground, it's over.


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## chrisgatland33 (Sep 3, 2009)

What Brock lacks in skill, he makes up for in sheer size and athleticism. Brock will nail him.


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## Karatemastaful (Sep 5, 2009)

Carwin might be able to match Brock's strength. Should be a great fight.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

turbohall said:


> Brock dont own a computer, or get into all that stuff.


Exactly, the only people's heads that Carwin's getting into are the fans :confused02:

Brock doesn't have dat der inter-web.


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## x_Rampage_x (Sep 5, 2009)

All I can say is THIS IS GONNA BE SICK


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## sirkee (Sep 5, 2009)

Lesnar no doubt..


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Great fight added to 106, Saunders vs Davis at welterweight:



> Welterweights Marcus Davis and Ben Saunders will look to rebound from recent losses when they square off against each other at UFC 106 in November. The news of the bout was reported by MMAjunkie.com.
> 
> The UFC 106 bout against Saunders will be Davis' first fight in the United States since defeating Pete Spratt at UFC 69 in April 2007. He has been busy competing overseas for UFC cards that took place in Belfast, Northern Ireland; Birmingham, London (2x); Newcastle, England; Dublin, Ireland and Cologne, Germany.
> 
> ...


http://www.fiveknuckles.com/mma-news/Marcus-Davis-vs-Ben-Saunders-slated-for-UFC-106.html


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

sneakattack said:


> ... but you cant call throwing you weight on top of some one and beating the shit out of them much of a skill.


Exactly. That's why it's worked for all the other huge MMA fighters over the years, hmm? I don't think so. :confused03:


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## justchico (Jul 28, 2008)

dudeabides, I totally agree. That should be a good'un!

But, to address the title of the thread....Brock Lesnar vs. WHO? Let the flames begin and call me a newbie or casual fan or whatever...but, shouldn't a guy who's getting a title shot at least be someone whose name at least sounds familiar to the average fan? Is that the creme-de-la-creme at HW in the UFC? OH, YEAH....sorry, I forgot....Dana dropped the ball and didn't snag Fedor yet again. My bad.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

justchico said:


> dudeabides, I totally agree. That should be a good'un!
> 
> But, to address the title of the thread....Brock Lesnar vs. WHO? Let the flames begin and call me a newbie or casual fan or whatever...but, shouldn't a guy who's getting a title shot at least be someone whose name at least sounds familiar to the average fan? Is that the creme-de-la-creme at HW in the UFC? OH, YEAH....sorry, I forgot....Dana dropped the ball and didn't snag Fedor yet again. My bad.


Just because you do not know someone who has dropped all his opponents in mostly under a minute and a half does not mean they do not deserve a title shot. Who would you place in there with Lesnar? Nog? Mir 3? couture 2? Dos Santos? Cro Cop? Duffee? Come on man. someone who is the same size and stregth going up against lesnar is a great choice. 

Reasons:
1. Lesnar wins and puts down all the critics that say he only uses his size to beat his opponents.
2. Lesnar loses and everyone who hates Lesnar is happy that he got dropped after his antics after the Mir fight.
3. Lesnar loses and it puts a fire into him like the first Mir fight did and i see a more well rounded Lesnar coming out of that senario.
4. Lesnar wins and gets another name under his belt so his 5-1 record seems a little better. 

possible 5. Carwin might be able to stop Lesnar taking him down and will force Lesnar to show his stand up skill.


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## justchico (Jul 28, 2008)

The505Butcher said:


> Just because you do not know someone who has dropped all his opponents in mostly under a minute and a half does not mean they do not deserve a title shot.


I'm not arguing with that at all. I'm just saying that the only thing I've ever heard about the guy is the Gonzaga fight. Maybe the UFC can stack some Unleashed episodes with Carwin fights so I (and us other casual hacks) can get a better idea of who the guy is. All I'm saying here is, if you're giving a guy a title shot, you gotta remind some of us of _why_ he's getting the shot. My memory sucks and MMA guys fight like twice a year (that's not a pot-shot btw), so just give me a little refresher is all.



> Who would you place in there with Lesnar? Nog? Mir 3? couture 2? Dos Santos? Cro Cop? Duffee? Come on man. someone who is the same size and stregth going up against lesnar is a great choice.


 I couldn't agree more. There's really nobody who's legit (as far as I know, which I've proven isn't much :wink01 at HW that really matches up with Lesnar physically. Kind of reminds me of Sylvia in a way. I was never all that impressed with the guy's skill set. If you got past the reach, you could give him a good fight. Otherwise, you ate jabs all night until he finally dropped the big one.

Just to clarify, my original post was more a shot at the UFC promo team than at Carwin. Like I said, I don't recognize they guy's name, so it's hard to get up for the fight. My fault? Maybe. UFC's fault?...definitely if there are more people like me out there.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

justchico said:


> I'm not arguing with that at all. I'm just saying that the only thing I've ever heard about the guy is the Gonzaga fight. Maybe the UFC can stack some Unleashed episodes with Carwin fights so I (and us other casual hacks) can get a better idea of who the guy is. All I'm saying here is, if you're giving a guy a title shot, you gotta remind some of us of _why_ he's getting the shot. My memory sucks and MMA guys fight like twice a year (that's not a pot-shot btw), so just give me a little refresher is all.
> 
> 
> I couldn't agree more. There's really nobody who's legit (as far as I know, which I've proven isn't much :wink01 at HW that really matches up with Lesnar physically. Kind of reminds me of Sylvia in a way. I was never all that impressed with the guy's skill set. If you got past the reach, you could give him a good fight. Otherwise, you ate jabs all night until he finally dropped the big one.
> ...


Yeah i agree with you actually. Carwin should have had a little more big name fights before he got a title shot but he was the best choice right now. They had to move him up to start training for Lesnar after he was told he was training for Cain. It would have been nice to see the Cain fight but oh well. Really they just need more big name HWs. So that people can test Lesnar. I mean the HW division is kinda f*cked if Lesnar wins. I mean i really do not see a fight in there that i would be very happy to watch if lesnar won. I mean Carwin has not faced a lot of guys out there so he could at least have a couple fights to chose from. The best Lesnar fight i want to see if he won is maybe Dos Santos if he wins. Maybe..,


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

I'm going to be torn if a Lesnar/Nog fight happens. I like Lesnar more, because he's the new beast on the block, but I have a long line of respect for Nog :confused05: I'd still root for Brock, though not whole heartedly and I definitely wouldn't want Nog to come out looking like a double bacon Mir burger.


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## jdig_theanimal (Sep 7, 2009)

awesome match ups but lesnar will destroy carwin
ortiz better win cuz he needs it
i would like to see almeida win only cuz i've trained with him but fitch might take it

and karo, although he is a royal dbag


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## turbohall (Aug 6, 2009)

The505Butcher said:


> Just because you do not know someone who has dropped all his opponents in mostly under a minute and a half does not mean they do not deserve a title shot. Who would you place in there with Lesnar? Nog? Mir 3? couture 2? Dos Santos? Cro Cop? Duffee? Come on man. someone who is the same size and *stregth* going up against lesnar is a great choice.
> 
> Reasons:
> 1. Lesnar wins and puts down all the critics that say he only uses his size to beat his opponents.
> ...


Carwin might be close to the same size but he is not near the same strength as Lesnar. It is possible for Carwin to KO Brock but I don't see that happening. Brock is a smart fighter my not have the skills as Carwin or Nog but he is smart. I see Brock using take downs for points, and he will control Carwin on the ground. I would love to see Brock get his first real KO but will take what ever as long as Brock wins.


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## LCRaiders (Apr 7, 2008)

I hope Carwin can finish Lesanr, I just can't stand Lesnar anymore :/

Doubt it will happen though..


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## GMK13 (Apr 20, 2009)

lesnar is constantly getting better. i see a one sided fight lesnar by tko 2nd or 3rd round.


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## baw4ua (Sep 11, 2009)

man i would absolutly love to see carwin ko brock...just dont think its gonna happen. coleman ortiz is actually a good match up i think colemans wrestling is better i just think titos too young and explosive wouldnt be all that suprised if coleman pulls it out though


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## LCRaiders (Apr 7, 2008)

Lesnar is still a very young fighter mature wise..

And he will only get better and its pretty scary that hes already champion..


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## jitsu_157 (Sep 14, 2009)

lesnar
carwin
fitch for sure


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## dfn2008 (Nov 13, 2008)

Just read that Jason Dent will face George Sotiropoulos at UFC 106 as well.


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## tyler90wm (Oct 8, 2008)

Here's the official poster


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

cleaned up and updated


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## LCRaiders (Apr 7, 2008)

tyler90wm said:


> Here's the official poster


Pretty sick poster..

Oddly enough i'm excited to see Ortiz fight..


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## Ortiz4Life (Sep 19, 2009)

Lesnar will destroy no questions asked. Ortiz will destroy aswell.


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## FredFish1 (Apr 22, 2007)

Great first post dude. I couldn't agree more with your reasoning or rationale. Enjoy your stay


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## Ortiz4Life (Sep 19, 2009)

FredFish1 said:


> Great first post dude. I couldn't agree more with your reasoning or rationale. Enjoy your stay


Shut up i dident feel like typing lol


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## GMK13 (Apr 20, 2009)

lesnar is just a sick fighter i see it being the best fight for him so far but i still see brock winning.


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## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

Shane Carwin is supposed to have incredible strength, but I have to say, I'm not tongue on the floor impressed with Carwin like everyone else has been. I see Lesnar out-maneuvering and just overpowering Shane Carwin with his wrestling abilities and finishing it with the Donkey Kong rapid fire punches. I'm sure the UFC community will rejoice and place Shane Carwin on a pedastal if he does somehow beat the "overrated" Brock Lesnar though.


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## Zenhalo (Sep 9, 2006)

Ortiz4Life said:


> Lesnar will destroy no questions asked. Ortiz will destroy aswell.


Ortiz 4 life eh?

With 2 posts looks like the band wagon just now picked you up.


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## UltimateMan (Sep 30, 2009)

*Great Story on Dana White & UFC*

I found this story earlier today.. Dana White interested in selling 10% of the UFC.. estimated at $100,000,000. He has built this sport into a heavy-weight!

Check out this video: http://www.1cast.com/l/211454


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## Smiley Face (Oct 5, 2009)

Brock will obviously try to take this fight to the floor quickly, he was getting tagged by Mir standing up and Couture at times in their fight too. Carwin only needs 1 punch to end Lesnar's win streak and that 1-2 combo has been working for him not to mention he has an iron head (those straight punches to the temple from Gonzaga would've KO'd most fighters). 

My mind says Brock but my heart says Shane. 

*WAR THE ENGINEER!*


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

:-) said:


> Brock will obviously try to take this fight to the floor quickly, he was getting tagged by Mir standing up and Couture at times in their fight too. Carwin only needs 1 punch to end Lesnar's win streak and that 1-2 combo has been working for him not to mention he has an iron head (those straight punches to the temple from Gonzaga would've KO'd most fighters).
> 
> My mind says Brock but my heart says Shane.
> 
> *WAR THE ENGINEER!*


His chin "not being tested" means just that, it hasn't been tested. Where's the logic that an untested chin automatically equates to an assumed weak chin? 


Also, Mir got a total of one and a half punches in, while Brock was coming in for a take down, so I'm not seeing where Mir was tagging Brock and if Lesnar was getting "tagged," then shouldn't he have collapsed due to his weak chin? Brock walked into a full on right hand by Mir, then Mir took a swing with his left and it was only a graze and by then, Brock had him in his clinch and the rest is history for round 1. Brock took Mir to the ground 25 seconds into the fight, where the first 18-20 seconds of the fight was pace checking and again, a single right straight and a left hook graze while Brock was moving in for a TD, so that take down wasn't an escape from a 1 1/2 punch domination as you make it sound. 

Round 2 Mir missed three thrown punches and Brock knocked him to the ground, then let Mir back up. Mir missed a whole bunch of other strikes and landed one solid one on Brock's chin, ended up in a clinch, where Mir chopped his own legs by throwing a jumping knee, from there the fight ends with facial burger meat. You make it sound like Lesnar was getting raped on his feet so he forced it to the ground to escape a beat down. Plan A for every wrestler is to take it to the ground. 

I agree Carwin can definitely KO Brock, but all this Mir was tagging Brock business is inaccurate.


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## turbohall (Aug 6, 2009)

I have to say Carwin misses alot of throws to when he fought GG and a few other opponents. He better be right on if he plans on KO Brock. Because Brock will take him down and will not let him controll the fight. All Brock has to do is take Carwin to the second round and Carwin will gas out.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Im still of the opinion Carwin will have trouble finding a range that he can strike effectively without being taken down, he's got a little more polish on his striking but he's not a technical striker and still dose a bit of wading in.

Im going with Brock but if anyone has the better odds of winning in the first round I would say its Shane. Brock is going to make him work to stay on his feet and even if he gets up a few times Shane is going to get tired, IMO Lesnar will grind him down and TKO him in the late second or third round.


The other fight I wanted to comment on is Coleman vs Ortiz.

With Coleman probably out,
http://www.fightersonlymagazine.co.uk/news/viewarticle.php?id=3197&offset=0
Who steps in to take his place? If he dose fight Tito at a later date, I think its one of the more lopsided fights we will see this year. Coleman with a bum knee wont be able to take Tito down and Ortiz will just use him as a punching bag till he's a puddle, not that Tito is a powerful striker but he has a lot of speed on Colman and accuracy as well I just dont see this being competitive and and have 0% interest in seeing Mark being out boxed for 2 and a half rounds. So who fights Tito, Wanderlei Silva or maybe Rashad?

Other than that this event looks tight IMO.


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## DropKick (Apr 19, 2007)

I think Brock will end up taking this fight by ground and pound but the more I think about it the more I think Carwin could pull it out. Of all the HW's currently in the UFC Carwin matches up the best with Brock. His size and power make him dangerous and I wouldn't be shocked if he clipped Brock and KO'd him or (t)KO'd him. 

That being said I don't know if Carwin has a clear advantage on the feet. He's got power but so does Brock, if that punch that Brock hit Herring with at the start of their fight had landed on the chin Heath would probably still be sleeping. Brock also seems to be a lot quicker / agile on his feet and I don't think Brock will stand in front of him and exchange. Shane's striking isn't very technical but if he can get into an exchange or 2 he could very well win the fight. The problem is I don't think he'll be able to avoid a clinch or take down when he gets in range. 

Brock better be ready to fight though because Carwin will be his toughest opponent yet and probably the only threat to his title currently on the UFC's HW roster. Stylistically Brock is horrible match up for almost everyone except Shane.


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

Man...with the Addition of Tito vs Griffen 2 this card is sooooo stacked.

Lesnar
Carwin
Forrest
Tito
Hazelett
Karo
Lil' Nog
Cane

Not to mention the fights with the less notable fighters look like very solid fights.
Saunders vs Davis should be a war and I was really impressed with George's BJJ in his last fight.


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

You said it man. I'm not that in doubt about Ortiz/Griffin but will be fun watching Forrest try to avenge that one. I'm wondering what the hell is going to happen when Nogueira fights Cane.


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## turbohall (Aug 6, 2009)

Brock vs Carwin alot of people are saying Brock has never faced someone so big. But Carwin has not fought someone so big and has that much power. When it comes time to weigh in Carwin will be shocked and so will many other people on how big Brock looks next to Carwin.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

There have been some additions to this card.

I'm excited to see Almeida fighting at 170. He should be a monster, but Fitch is a top five guy in that weight class.

Hopefully Karo will actually fight this one on the level.


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

IronMan said:


> There have been some additions to this card.
> 
> I'm excited to see Almeida fighting at 170. He should be a monster, but Fitch is a top five guy in that weight class.
> 
> Hopefully Karo will actually fight this one on the level.


Does Almeida really impress you as an athlete? I get the impression Almeida doesn't have the work ethic or athleticism to be a "monster". I can't see him catching a sub or winning a decision against Fitch so it will be a long night for him.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

RushFan said:


> Does Almeida really impress you as an athlete? I get the impression Almeida doesn't have the work ethic or athleticism to be a "monster". I can't see him catching a sub or winning a decision against Fitch so it will be a long night for him.


Actually, he does. While I think he should've beaten Grove and Horwich with submissions, you have to keep in mind that this is a guy who's fighting at his natural weight against much bigger opposition.

That said, the fight with Fitch will be interesting. I tend to think Jon's jiu-jitsu, from a technical standpoint, is overrated. No disrespect to Camarillo (who I really like), but I don't think Jon's ground game is blackbelt level.

He's got four medals at ADCC, so he can be a threat to anybody and everybody on the ground.


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## Jason1987Jason (Oct 15, 2009)

Lesnar is gonna destroy Carwin. This joker wouldn't last long against Randy or Frank, and he wants to step in the ring with Brock? Good luck buddy! The fight is gonna look somethin like the fights in this video - http://ca.video.yahoo.com/watch/6197920/16090910


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Jason1987Jason said:


> Lesnar is gonna destroy Carwin. This joker wouldn't last long against Randy or Frank, and he wants to step in the ring with Brock? Good luck buddy! The fight is gonna look somethin like the fights in this video - http://ca.video.yahoo.com/watch/6197920/16090910


Honestly, your post has a lack of substance that leads me to believe you dont know what your talking about. 

Your right about one thing, if Carwin got in the cage with Mir or Randy the fight would most likely end quickly but I would have to say if it did Carwin would probably be the winner.


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## Jason1987Jason (Oct 15, 2009)

slapshot said:


> Honestly, your post has a lack of substance that leads me to believe you dont know what your talking about.
> 
> Your right about one thing, if Carwin got in the cage with Mir or Randy the fight would most likely end quickly but I would have to say if it did Carwim would probably be the winner.


I was hoping someone would debate me on this. Allow me to add substance.

Carwin has never faced an opponent with HALF the talent of Couture, Mir, or even Herring. The closest to any of those three was Gonzaga, who really doesn't measure up. Could Carwin beat them? I suppose, but the odds would be severely against him. He relies too much on his KO power. Its all he has, and he would need to finish it in the first round because his cardio isn't great (by his own admission from a while back). 

Lesnar is NOT a great fighter because all he does really is gets on top of the opposition and drowns them in punches. However, he's done it to Herring, who can throw a punch, and he did it to one of the best strikers around (Couture) and to one of the best heavyweight submissions experts (Mir). I say Lesnar is gonna do the only thing he knows how to do: sit on Carwin and submit him with punches and hammer fists. An ugly win, but a win nonetheless.


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## ash (Oct 15, 2006)

Damn, I'm really looking forward to this card...Can't wait to see Dustin Hazelett back in action! A sub over Karo would be awesome :thumb02:


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## The Immortal CJ (Sep 7, 2009)

Honestly who has Carwin faced? Brock has beaten big names while Carwin has really done nothing but look dominant against no names. I expect Lesnar to win this fight.


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## SSD (Aug 8, 2009)

This is really funny. A lot of MMA "puristas" think Carwin is going to win because he has knock out power. Wow. With that type of logic, all you guys should think that Rogers will kill Fedor without a doubt. The funny thing is that Roger's resume is better than Carwin's and he deserves a UFC Title shot more.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

slapshot said:


> Honestly, your post has a lack of substance that leads me to believe you dont know what your talking about.
> 
> Your right about one thing, if Carwin got in the cage with Mir or Randy the fight would most likely end quickly but I would have to say if it did Carwim would probably be the winner.


Then let's talk substance,

The best person Carwin has beaten is Gonzaga, of whom Couture raped in blood. Carwin defeated Gonzaga, but not in the same dominating fashion as Couture defeated Gonzaga. Where you would draw that due to Carwin's less-then performance against Gonzaga in comparison to Couture vs Gonzaga equates to Carwin so obviously dominating Couture has worse then a lack of substance, but a break in logic.

As much as I hate Mir with all my heart, Carwin has not met an opponent of Mir's caliber (hurts to say), so if we're talking substance, your comments have no justifiable foundation.

I feel the fight could go either way [vs Brock], as is the nature of two giants swinging on each other, but to place so much confidence in Carwin, as justified by his Resume, is not a strong basis of justification at all. 

I'm favoring Lesnar, but it's no walk in the park for either fighter.


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## SSD (Aug 8, 2009)

Everyone has a puncher's chance and so does Carwin. Beyond that, I don't think anyone believes Carwin is better. I haven't seen somebody say that Carwin is going to win via submission or UD or a pure beatdown over 5 mins. They all suggest Carwin will win by knockout. What they forget is that what that requires is for Carwin to get that one clean shot and I am sure Lesnar will have Carwin on his back with his legs up in no time.


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## skylarlaham (Oct 19, 2009)

Shane Carwin All Day!


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

:laugh: This fight conversation has had the word over-rated used way too often.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Jason1987Jason said:


> Lesnar is gonna destroy Carwin. This joker wouldn't last long against Randy or Frank, and he wants to step in the ring with Brock? Good luck buddy! The fight is gonna look somethin like the fights in this video - http://ca.video.yahoo.com/watch/6197920/16090910


Honestly, your post has a lack of substance that leads me to believe you dont know what your talking about. 

Your right about one thing, if Carwin got in the cage with Mir or Randy the fight would most likely end quickly but I would have to say if it did Carwim would probably be the winner.





Jason1987Jason said:


> I was hoping someone would debate me on this. Allow me to add substance.
> 
> Carwin has never faced an opponent with HALF the talent of Couture, Mir, or even Herring. The closest to any of those three was Gonzaga, who really doesn't measure up. Could Carwin beat them? I suppose, but the odds would be severely against him. He relies too much on his KO power. Its all he has, and he would need to finish it in the first round because his cardio isn't great (by his own admission from a while back).
> 
> Lesnar is NOT a great fighter because all he does really is gets on top of the opposition and drowns them in punches. However, he's done it to Herring, who can throw a punch, and he did it to one of the best strikers around (Couture)and to one of the best heavyweight submissions experts (Mir). I say Lesnar is gonna do the only thing he knows how to do: sit on Carwin and submit him with punches and hammer fists. An ugly win, but a win nonetheless.


Funny I thought I was talking about your post specifically, its not that I think Carwin will win its just that I get tired at times of posts that are more or less void of any value to the topic.


> Carwin has never faced an opponent with HALF the talent of Couture, Mir, or even Herring.


I would put Gabriel over Herring who's 2/3 in his last 5 fights but once again your post is over exaggerated which makes it lose credibility, at least in my eye's. 

I dont see Mir with his takedown skill set being able to put Carwin on the floor and that my friend is why styles make fights, I think Randy could take him down but I have a hard time believing he would be able to keep him there. In both cases it boils down to a striking match and Ill take Carwin's striking over Frank or Randy's based on power alone sooner or later he would catch either fighter and neither fighter has a superior chin Id say average sums up there ability to take a punch.



> and he did it to one of the best strikers around (Couture)


I have to tell you the truth and that is, Couture being one of the best strikers around is not even in the realm of possibility, in every Division there are much better strikers than Randy. He is a game fighter and a well rounded fighter but a dominant striker he is not. 

As far as Mir goes Ive always felt he has been overrated period, I have no doubts about his jitz game but thats all he has. Im sure someone will pop in with OMG WTF he destroyed NOG striking and thats true he did but outstriking a fighter that was hospitalized with MRSA and had a knee injury both right before the fight is just not that impressive to me.

Like I said I still think Brock has the tools to beat him but this is a closer fight than people on both sides are willing to admit/see. 




VolcomX311 said:


> Then let's talk substance,
> 
> The best person Carwin has beaten is Gonzaga, of whom Couture raped in blood. Carwin defeated Gonzaga, but not in the same dominating fashion as Couture defeated Gonzaga. Where you would draw that due to Carwin's less-then performance against Gonzaga in comparison to Couture vs Gonzaga equates to Carwin so obviously dominating Couture has worse then a lack of substance, but a break in logic.
> 
> ...


I might as well play devil's advocate. First I would ask what round did Shane TKO Gonzaga in and what round did Randy? I remember both fights well and at one point late in the Couture fight Gabe fired off a HLK that hurt randy so bad he was almost out on his feet. My point is that Randy's win was good but because it came in the third round and because Randy had also been rocked in his fight I dont see how it was so much more impressive than Carwin's.

Second, the worst "brake in logic" is MMA math, especially if you want to split hairs like you are attempting to do comparing these two fights with Gonzaga. All three fighters you are trying to use as reference have vastly different fight styles and it all just brakes down to a lot of speculation and a little bit of substance, not very solid ground if you ask me. 

As for Mir see above.

I know you missed my point and had you bothered to even read more than the two last posts you would have already known that I picked Brock to win. 

This,


> but to place so much confidence in Carwin, as justified by his Resume, is not a strong basis of justification at all.


I found highly entertaining, it's like the pot calling the kettle black-er. The fact is Carwin has heavy hands and his striking is more fundamentally sound than Brocks, if this was a boxing match I would have to change my pick. I also know that any time you put two highly skilled wrestlers in a MMA match there is a 96% probability that the fight ends up a striking battle and a lot of people would argue that favors Carwin. 

At this point I think its just as Justifiable and defensible to pick Shane as it is to pick Brock even though I dont think Shane will win.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

updated


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## the1nicko (Oct 25, 2009)

I think this is going to be a fantastic fight. I think Shane Carwim poses a HUGE threat to Brock. I think the only way for Brock to win is to wrestle him and ground and pound. I am a fan of Brock Lesnar but would not mind seeing Carwin take this with a huge knockout. I think he posses the power to do it if he can catch him. Though Brock Lesnar has been succesful in the UFC and has already takin out some big names, I have not been very impressed with his victories. I would like to see some knockouts from him.


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## MaZZacare (Oct 24, 2009)

OK lets say there wrestling is basicaly equal to eachother being the top of you Div has to mean something .
Lesnar is still bigger then shane and honestly i think quicker. shane does have good punching and KO power adn he'll definatly test lesnars chin but if this gets to teh 3rd round Shane will most likely have gassed since ive heard him say his cardio isnt that good but hey maybe he improved it 
this fight really just comes down to a who can throw the bigger bomb contest though


----------



## Scorch (Apr 2, 2007)

This fight is going to be awesome. These two big behemoths, who hate each other, going to slug it out is going to be freaking incredible! _Somebody_ is going to get smashed!


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## Smiley Face (Oct 5, 2009)

Scorch said:


> This fight is going to be awesome. These two big behemoths, who hate each other, going to slug it out is going to be freaking incredible! _Somebody_ is going to get smashed!


Carwin will certainly get smashed. Brock by GnP KO.


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## funkyboogalooo (Jan 28, 2009)

Whoa, hope this is wrong

Lesnar out

http://www.examiner.com/x-26337-Mix...snar-out-of-Main-Event-with-Carwin-at-UFC-106


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## GriffinFanKY (Oct 22, 2007)

It's official its on UFC.com and Forrest vs Tito is the main event.I am a Forrest fan but that is not main event caliber


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## skylarlaham (Oct 19, 2009)

OMFG!!! What a bitch! First off, who gets sick for months from the flu? I mean seriously, I understand a few weeks but common! My guess is that Lesnar got scared from Carwin n started juicing again like the good old WWE days, but was using dirty needles and got a cyst and liver damage lol...

Secondly, The main events gonna be Tito vs Griffin?!! WTF!? WTF! OK, Tito sucks, and he thinks hes way too cool even though hes a piece of crap! And to top it off they get that howdy doody retard Griffin who has nooooo skill.

Honestly though... The real reason behind it is that it was planned from the start... The Machita vs Shogun was fixed to keep Machita and the viewers he brings. So now that the Lesnar Carwin fight is off, Shogun and Machita can have there "rematch" and get yet more viewers...


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

After the way Forrest got manraped by Silva in his last fight, he does not deserve main event status. Cant wait to see what they add to this.


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## skylarlaham (Oct 19, 2009)

joshua7789 said:


> After the way Forrest got manraped by Silva in his last fight, he does not deserve main event status. Cant wait to see what they add to this.


^agree.

I think the main event should be that con artist trickster Dana White vs Shane Carwin.


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## the1nicko (Oct 25, 2009)

just because Brock is bitching out there's no need to punish Carwin. I'd be like hey Valazquez, want a chance to finish your last fight? Valazquez-Carwin UFC 106. Winner fights Brandon Vera (after he kicks coture's ass) and winner gets to kick Brocks ass for the belt.


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## skylarlaham (Oct 19, 2009)

the1nicko said:


> just because Brock is bitching out there's no need to punish Carwin. I'd be like hey Valazquez, want a chance to finish your last fight? Valazquez-Carwin UFC 106. Winner fights Brandon Vera (after he kicks coture's ass) and winner gets to kick Brocks ass for the belt.


no, to much work... it would take to long, n no one would ever get to fight lesnar. lesnar should stop being a puss n just fight carwin... my idea would be to bring kimbo in to fight carwin lol


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## elessarcif (Jul 12, 2009)

skylarlaham said:


> OMFG!!! What a bitch! First off, who gets sick for months from the flu? I mean seriously, I understand a few weeks but common! My guess is that Lesnar got scared from Carwin n started juicing again like the good old WWE days, but was using dirty needles and got a cyst and liver damage lol...
> 
> Secondly, The main events gonna be Tito vs Griffin?!! WTF!? WTF! OK, Tito sucks, and he thinks hes way too cool even though hes a piece of crap! And to top it off they get that howdy doody retard Griffin who has nooooo skill.
> 
> Honestly though... The real reason behind it is that it was planned from the start... The Machita vs Shogun was fixed to keep Machita and the viewers he brings. So now that the Lesnar Carwin fight is off, Shogun and Machita can have there "rematch" and get yet more viewers...


If it has been a month it wouldnt surprise me if it is Mono. That stuff will sap all your energy.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

the1nicko said:


> just because Brock is bitching out there's no need to punish Carwin. I'd be like hey Valazquez, want a chance to finish your last fight? Valazquez-Carwin UFC 106. *Winner fights Brandon Vera *(after he kicks coture's ass) and winner gets to kick Brocks ass for the belt.


Either one would destroy Vera.....Vera is a LHW now anyways. Could you imagine the besting Carwin would inflict upon Vera?


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

the1nicko said:


> just because Brock is bitching out there's no need to punish Carwin. I'd be like hey Valazquez, want a chance to finish your last fight? Valazquez-Carwin UFC 106. Winner fights Brandon Vera (after he kicks coture's ass) and winner gets to kick Brocks ass for the belt.


You know that Vera fights at 205, right?

And that Vera has been fighting at that weight for well over a year?

And that he got spanked the last two times he fought at heavyweight?

And that he's not even dominant at lightheavyweight?

Alright. Just wanted to make sure you knew.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Wow, I was just listening to Carwins strength and conditioning coach and he has been training like crazy, they are hoping to get him to 275 by the fight and on top of his regular training he traveled to Montreal to work with Jerome Le Banner, thats a nasty training partner for a guy that size and strength and it will be interesting to see what Carwin brings away from that training.


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## skylarlaham (Oct 19, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Wow, I was just listening to Carwins strength and conditioning coach and he has been training like crazy, they are hoping to get him to 275 by the fight and on top of his regular training he traveled to Montreal to work with Jerome Le Banner, thats a nasty training partner for a guy that size and strength and it will be interesting to see what Carwin brings away from that training.


Wow I follow Carwin on the net, but I didnt hear about this, Link please!


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

It was on the fight network so I don't have a link.


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## skylarlaham (Oct 19, 2009)

oh nevermind then, thanks tho


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## the1nicko (Oct 25, 2009)

Shit I forgot coture is fighting LHW, I still think that vera is going to kick cotures ass and I think vera is a dominant LHW. They are advertising UFC 106 on TV as Lesnar Carwin still, I wonder why they are advertising UFC 106 before 105.

I am really not impressed with any heavy weights right now. Except Carwin, but even in his last fight Gonzaga was doing pretty well until he got caught. Lets see if Carwin can do it again.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Wow, I was just listening to Carwins strength and conditioning coach and he has been training like crazy, they are hoping to get him to 275 by the fight and on top of his regular training he traveled to Montreal to work with Jerome Le Banner, thats a nasty training partner for a guy that size and strength and it will be interesting to see what Carwin brings away from that training.


If i were training for a kickboxing match, JLB would be one of the first people I would go to, in mma, he would be one of the last. Training with JLB will do absolutely nothing to prepare him for brocks style. It would be like training with Carl Froch to get ready for a fight with GSP, it will make you a better boxer, but it will not give you any kind of insight into fighting st. pierre. He should be training with big, freakishly strong wrestlers.


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## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

I just want to know what's going to happen to Carwin.

Is it confirmed that he's going to wait for Brock?

I should do my next Love-Hate Station on him


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## the1nicko (Oct 25, 2009)

Chileandude said:


> I just want to know what's going to happen to Carwin.
> 
> Is it confirmed that he's going to wait for Brock?
> 
> I should do my next Love-Hate Station on him


They are going to fight Jan 2.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

the1nicko said:


> They are going to fight Jan 2.


was this confirmed?


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## the1nicko (Oct 25, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> was this confirmed?


I am pretty sure it has been confirmed unless someone pulls out again.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

im not updating the thread untill the dust settles. there are to many changes taking place now


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## jongurley (Jun 28, 2008)

This card is going to sort of suck without carwin and brock fighting,


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## DominageApparel (Nov 2, 2009)

Extremely disappointed that the main event fell apart. I've been really looking forward to it, and now this whole card seems to be taking a turn for the worse. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

I'm sure those who bought tickets are pretty ticked. Ticket prices were astronomical, even by UFC standards. I know people paying ticket prices closest to front are likely high rollers, but there are likely some average working joes in the mix as well, and I can't help but feel they are getting screwed unless the UFC can come up with a high caliber main event as a replacement. 

Forrest vs. Tito doesn't quite cut it; Forrest is coming off an embarrassing loss and it's been a long time since Tito has won inside the octagon as well.


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## FracturedSkull (Nov 22, 2009)

Man oh man! I am just hoping this battle ends with a slug fest. But knowing Brock's strategy; I won't expect much. Go Carwin!


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## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

FracturedSkull said:


> Man oh man! I am just hoping this battle ends with a slug fest. But knowing Brock's strategy; I won't expect much. Go Carwin!


Best
Username
Ever

Period


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