# Scott Coker: Overeem's Title WILL NOT BE On The Line In The Tournament!!!!!!!



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

> While the buzz surrounding Strikeforce's recently announced heavyweight grand prix has been immense, understanding of the specifics of the tourney has been a bit less than ideal.
> 
> Today, Strikeforce CEO Scott Coker clarified many of the questions that needed to be addressed.
> 
> ...


Source

Totally unexpected!!!

Didn't see that coming!!!

That's a BIG LOL!!!

Overeem's title is not on the line! AGAIN!

I don't even care. At least we will have some great fights!!!


----------



## Dan0 (Aug 22, 2008)

Scott Coker seems like a sensible guy, but this is completely idiotic and makes no sense whatsoever.


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Dan0 said:


> Scott Coker seems like a sensible guy, but this is completely idiotic and makes no sense whatsoever.


Remember PRIDE!

They had 2 champions:
1. one champion had let's say the heavyweight belt, just like in the UFC
2. they had tournaments/Grand Prix: MW, HW and Open Weight and the winner got a belt too.

They had more than one champion!

I didn't see this coming!!!


----------



## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

Would be sweet if the title was on the line, kinda dumb if the champ is fighting in the tourney ya know, might as well make it a title fight. Smart on SF's part, they keep Overeem marketable even if he loses the tourney and can set up a match between the winner of the tourney and overeem for the belt.


----------



## _JB_ (May 30, 2007)

As long as the tournament champ fights Overeem after, say in 6 months i don't mind. But im thinking that Overeem has got to be a strong favourite anyway so if he wins its not really a problem.


----------



## box (Oct 15, 2006)

So if said person beats him, they have to beat him again to make it worth anything? Great....


----------



## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Overeem does love belts so maybe he gave Coker the idea for a grand prix specific strap:thumb02:


----------



## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

So Fedor has to beat Overeem twice to get the SF belt, thats kinda weird :confused02:


----------



## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Surely the thing to do is make Overeem vacate the belt and give it to the winner of the tourney?


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

What a joke. Just when I thought SF was doing something good...its screwed up again. Not all Coker's fault...guess it didn't fly with the commissions or something.

So now we have Overeem not defending his belt for another year after 1 defense in 3 years. Sad.

Now if Werdum or Fedor win the tourney...they would need to beat Overeem again just to get the belt. 

What a joke.


----------



## Rachmunas (May 15, 2009)

I really wanted to see all 5 round fights in the tournament.


----------



## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

The guy that beats Overeem will be the current champion in my eyes.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Rusko said:


> The guy that beats Overeem will be the current champion in my eyes.


Me too.

They should have just never did the crappy Rogers fight and stripped Overeem and said they were doing this tourney for the vacant HW belt.


----------



## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

to be fair this will all be irrelevant when Overeem rips through them all in Round 1!


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Now if Werdum or Fedor win the tourney...they would need to beat Overeem again just to get the belt.


Even stranger is the fact that Fedor or Werdum could beat Overeem and not win the tournament. That's the weird part! Beating the champion and getting NOTHING!

but don't worry: Overeem will win this and get his 4th belt. As the tournament winner he will challenge Overeem (The HW champ) and lose LOL
Honestly i am just happy we will get to see great fights!


----------



## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

This is stupid. Why dont they just make Overeems three round fights title fights? The guy has the potential to fight three times in the organization in which he is the champion and not defend his title in any of the three? Even when Strikeforce does something awesome like this heavyweight tournament (although its not really a tournament anyhow), they still manage to add a level of retardation to it.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Rusko said:


> The guy that beats Overeem will be the current champion in my eyes.


Exactly! And then they can schedule the rematch over in Dream for both belts, if that is actually possible :confused02:


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Why so much hate on this decision? It's not their fault that they can't make much sense with the grand prix when the champion, Alistair Overeem is taking part as well. I'm actually liking the idea that Overeem's belt isn't in the line, it would take so much away from the final, if he didn't make it there.


----------



## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

Remember these rules aren't set in stone, whose to say Coker wont change his mind if Overeem makes it to the final? If he's in the finals he might just make it a title fight for the belt, and the GP belt. Never know


----------



## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

limba said:


> but don't worry: Overeem will win this and get his 4th belt. As the tournament winner he will challenge Overeem (The HW champ) and lose LOL


Having a Pride Belt and Defending it twice is more credible then anything Overeem has,no one cares about his Duffee belt or his Buentello Belt.


----------



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

I can understand people being upset, but don't blame SF, they're most likely just replying to orders from various commissions around America. They've even had to make up a title (Tournament Championship) to have the last match be 5 rounds (Not that 5 rounds will be that relevant in a HW tournament)

Don't blame Coker, blame the people who make the rules


----------



## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Out of the last 40 fights from these 8 guys only 6 have gone to decision... and that is in 3 round fights so 5 rounds in a Heavyweight GP didn't make sense anyways.


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

This is something the UFC could pull off in a few weight classes (not heavy weight IMO) because they have a full stable of high level fighters.

This is not a good model for strikeforce IMO. I just think it could spread the fighters too thin in a weight class that is already thin to begin with, its great for fans but a few of these guys are going to be left with nobody relevant to face and all that will do is push them down in the rankings even more so if they lose.

Strikeforce should look to acquire Bellator around the beginning of next year, last time I looked they were struggling to make it and leaking money like the titanic.

I like a single belt system.

At least that way you add some more warm body's for the top guys to beat on. I think one belt would provide us with a fairly solid understanding of who's the Undisputed Strikeforce Champ.

If you think about it thats four fights a year just to defend the title maybe one more probably not for most fighters.

The thing is, it gives more validity to the title itself that way, the UFC could never claim their fighters are better tested, its always quality over quantity but with one belt I think you bring them both together.

Case in point if reem wins this he will probably be recognized as the heavyweight champ of the world in a lot of peoples eye's (although I dont agree)But what if Fedor wins the title without having to face Reem? The case for all kinds of arguments is there and top SF fighters may slip right out of the top ten all together.

If reem losses this then he'll drop in rankings and people will say the guy who won is the real SF champ, I dont think I like that. I think the reason titles are in place at all is because we the fans want titles we want to know who IS the best, period but this structure could and at some point will devalue the title.


----------



## Mike28 (Aug 11, 2010)

I do not like this at all. I liked the idea of every Overeem fight being a Title Fight. Oh well it is a mute point if Overeem wins the whole thing.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Bknmax said:


> Having a Pride Belt and Defending it twice is more credible then anything Overeem has,no one cares about his Duffee belt or his Buentello Belt.


This. :thumbsup:

Chael should come out and compare these 2 belts to something you get in a happy meal.

Whoever wins the tourney is the rightful SF HW champ. They will have done more than Overeem has ever done in SF. If it is Overeem who comes out on top then it all works out. But then SF will have no challenger to fight him and the HW division will be on the shelf for a while anyway.


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Mike28 said:


> I do not like this at all. I liked the idea of every Overeem fight being a Title Fight. Oh well it is a mute point if Overeem wins the whole thing.


But if he takes a lose to anyone but the fighter who wins the tournament it just adds doubt to whats suppose to be the most authoritative title in the weight class in Strikeforce.

IDK like some have said it has some benefits but most of them hinge on one fighter winning both titles in my eye's. But Im going to watch it that much I know, LOL.


----------



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

What about Fedor's WAMMA belt, does it still exist?


----------



## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

The_Senator said:


> What about Fedor's WAMMA belt, does it still exist?


Lol, shouldnt that be Werdums belt now? Someone get ahold of Pat Militech and get this sorted out.


----------



## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

joshua7789 said:


> Lol, shouldnt that be Werdums belt now? Someone get ahold of Pat Militech and get this sorted out.


It wasn't on the line in the werdum fight.


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Go figure ... lol.


----------



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> Go figure ... lol.


Imagine Dos Santos fighting UFC champ Velasquez... without opportunity to grab the belt... just for fun And in order to get it, he would need to beat Velasquez twice. Sounds like a complete BS. As MMA fan I don't care that much about the title holders in DREAM/SF/WAMMA comparing to actual fights. I just want to see Werdum, Overeem and Fedor facing each other, but fighters should be disappointed. I mean, Werdum already beat Fedor and if he beats Overeem, he still won't be the champion... and even if he somehow defeats Fedor AGAIN. Cool isn't it? Then what does it say about the titles? I guess the probability of this is extremely low, so it's not even a consideration of SF management.

P.S.
Shogun was a huge underdog in PRIDE GP 2005, but he completed his work admirably.


----------



## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

I kind of expect the winner to get a title shot anyway, does seem kind of silly tho, especially if the winner does get a title shot and its a rematch of a fight we already had in the tournament.


----------



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> I kind of expect the winner to get a title shot anyway.


Yeah, you must beat Fedor, Overeem, Fedor again or Silva again, then Barnett/Kharitonov/Arlovski/Rogers. Nice way to earn the title shot you have to beat the champion (+ the best HW in MMA history twice) to earn the right to face him again. Lol


----------



## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

The finals needs to be for the belt regardless of who is in it. My money is on Allistair to win the whole thing but shit, this is still ridiculous.


----------



## Relavate (Dec 21, 2010)

What it boils down too is the winner of this (if not reem) will be no1 contender. Makes sense in a way.


----------



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> What it boils down too is the winner of this (if not reem) will be no1 contender. Makes sense in a way.


If Werdum somehow finds a way to win this tournament, he's arguably the best heavyweight in MMA (and definitely above Overeem in all rankings), not just some #1 contender for SF's belt. 

But for any other fighter it would make sense in a way, especially for the guys on the right side.


----------



## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

another issue with this is that it screws up the brackets, they made sense from a view with the title been on the line, from Werdum been the number one contender getting the first title shot, then Fedor vs Silva for next No.1 contender, it all made sense while the other 4 battled it out for a title shot once the current top 4 had finished battling it out to see who had the belt.

But without the title in play the brackets are unbalanced with having your top 4 on one side and your other 4 contenders on the other. No Question in my mind that the Brackets could of been done better in this case without the title in there.


----------



## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Overeem will need an entourage to carry his belts like some pro boxers.


----------



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> another issue with this is that it screws up the brackets, they made sense from a view with the title been on the line, from Werdum been the number one contender getting the first title shot, then Fedor vs Silva for next No.1 contender, it all made sense while the other 4 battled it out for a title shot once the current top 4 had finished battling it out to see who had the belt.
> 
> But without the title in play the brackets are unbalanced with having your top 4 on one side and your other 4 contenders on the other. No Question in my mind that the Brackets could of been done better in this case without the title in there.


That was initial intention, and much better idea. Now it's a complete disrespect to Werdum.


----------



## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Coker didn't make this decision.

The commissions wouldn't sanction 5 round fights in the tournament.


----------



## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Coker didn't make this decision.
> 
> The commissions wouldn't sanction 5 round fights in the tournament.


this.


----------



## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

The_Senator said:


> That was initial intention, and much better idea. Now it's a complete disrespect to Werdum.


Screw Werdum, although I respect the fact he is a talented fighter, after his post fighter interview in the ring after just beating Fedor and the way he went on about blowing off the title shot he won against the Reem and going back to the UFC to face Brock, disrespecting the company they took him in and gave him the biggest fight of his career and there title.

Fcuk him he deserves the first round beat down he is going to get by the Reem, then let him fcuk off back to the UFC if they even want him after that.


----------



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> Screw Werdum, although I respect the fact he is a talented fighter, after his post fighter interview in the ring after just beating Fedor and the way he went on about blowing off the title shot he won against the Reem and going back to the UFC to face Brock, disrespecting the company they took him in and gave him the biggest fight of his career and there title.
> 
> Fcuk him he deserves the first round beat down he is going to get by the Reem, then let him fcuk off back to the UFC if they even want him after that.


Frankly, I do not want to see him winning the tournament. I see him being crushed by Alistair rather easily. I was just trying to look at the situation from his standpoint. Fedor vs Overeem is what I anticipate to see and the winner will win the entire GP in my opinion. And now I'm starting to like the idea of Fedor beating Overeem in semi final, then facing Alistair again, but that time for the belt. Overeem vs Fedor I/II sounds very enticing. On the other hand if Overeem wins this, then he must go to the UFC because SF has nobody else to fight with. I mean how can you occupy #1 spot by not beating UFC champion? And this is Alistair's ultimate goal, I assume.


----------



## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

The_Senator said:


> Frankly, I do not want to see him winning the tournament. I see him being crushed by Alistair rather easily. I was just trying to look at the situation from his standpoint. Fedor vs Overeem is what I anticipate to see and the winner will win the entire GP in my opinion. And now I'm starting to like the idea of Fedor beating Overeem in semi final, then facing Alistair again, but that time for the belt. Overeem vs Fedor I/II sounds very enticing. On the other hand if Overeem wins this, then he must go to the UFC because SF has nobody else to fight with. I mean how can you occupy #1 spot by not beating UFC champion? And this is Alistair's ultimate goal, I assume.


Easy win this GP and then you woudl argue the UFC champ needs to beat you to become No.1

Seriously take Lesser for example before he even lost to Cain, how did his achievements even get him in to the top 10 never mind No.1, the UFC division is a joke, but it may be a goof retirement plan for the someone like the Reem should he win to make some money after he is finished proving he is the No.1


----------



## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Coker didn't make this decision.
> 
> The commissions wouldn't sanction 5 round fights in the tournament.


You think his only two choices were have only three round fights in every fight, or only five round fights? That seems hard to believe.

Why would any commission object to there being title fights as part of a tournament? I can't think of any reason.

What I want to know, is if the 4th judge is truly independent and provided by the commission, or will Strikeforce provide them? Considering that I've never heard of an athletic commission having rules for a fourth judge, especially one not scoring on a ten point must system, this sounds like a Strikeforce only matter.

The tournament committee also seems... odd. Instead of just having seeded alternates, they'll be able to re-add an already eliminated fighter if they like?


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Let's just be happy that we are going to see all of those guy's battling it out in the cage.


----------



## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

A Belt is a just a Belt , whoever wins is the best SF HW period.

Stupid i agree , but its done because Overeem isnt a sure bet and myself and probably Scott included know his chin probably wont hold up fighting that many top guys especially 2 that have finished him. 

Fedor being the SF champion is bad business for Scott since M1 seem to make all the rules.


----------



## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

***** de Amigo said:


> A Belt is a just a Belt , whoever wins is the best SF HW period.
> 
> Stupid i agree , but its done because Overeem isnt a sure bet and myself and probably Scott included know his chin probably wont hold up fighting that many top guys especially 2 that have finished him.
> 
> *Fedor being the SF champion is bad business for Scott since M1 seem to make all the rules.*


yes. if fedor gets a hold of that belt then may god have mercy on strikeforce


----------



## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

Major Bummer and it's ridiculous that Reem can lose and still hold the title. This tournament is still a major step up for Strikeforce and lesson learned I guess.


----------



## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

The_Senator said:


> how can you occupy #1 spot by not beating UFC champion?


I also don't know how a UFC HW fighter can occupy #1 spot without fighting the SF champ. (this goes both ways with this div; sorry, I'm a stickler for that detail/view)


The brackets still make sense for me, from the standpoint of getting the most exciting matchups overall. Kinda sucks they couldn't make it all 5 rounders/for the belt. But hey, Pride did it, so whatever. Either way, it's gonna be a fun ride!


----------



## Gyser (Oct 13, 2009)

Makes sense to me, seemed a bit odd having 3 titles within a tournament, the only thing that makes this wierd is the Champ is in the GP but we've all wanted Overeem fighting guys like Werdum, Fedor etc for ages so lets just get on with it!

Ideally he could vacate it and the GP crowns the new SF HW Champion, but that doesn't make sense and Overeem has this belt fetish going on so doubt he will entertain the idea.


----------



## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

This really doesn't seem like the commissions were a problem...



> The promotion originally intended for its heavyweight belt to be contested three times during the tournament -- first, in April, when Overeem is scheduled to meet Fabricio Werdum. However, Coker said, to "make it simple" he opted against having the title available or pushing for each tournament stage to feature five-round bouts, which is allowed under the Unified Rules of mixed martial arts.
> 
> *Regulators in California, Missouri, New Jersey and Tennessee told ESPN.com they would have agreed to five-round, non-title tournament fights, yet Coker laid responsibility for the decision at the feet of states he declined to name*.
> 
> ...


Source. My emphasis.

So, the problem was getting all the commissions on the same page, but they never even asked the commission where the first fights are taking place? It sounds like they didn't even try to get them on the same page. California, where Strikeforce holds half their events, was cool with it too.

Maybe it was one of those four states that will give Barnett a license with a clean urine sample that wasn't on board. But if they'll grant a license to Barnett (which an mmajunkie article said the most influencial commissions like California, Nevada, and New Jersey were unlikely to do) why would five round fights be so egregious to them?

The article also mentions the committee and 4th judge:




> Prior to being asked about it by ESPN.com on Thursday, Lembo was also unaware of Strikeforce's intention to use a fourth judge, independent of the three assigned by whichever regulatory body oversees that event, to determine an advancing fighter in case of a draw.
> 
> "Strikeforce could utilize a fourth judge for their own tournament advancement purposes, but the fourth judge would not be an NJSACB judge, and such would not effect the official recorded result," Lembo said.
> 
> ...


----------



## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

limba said:


> Remember PRIDE!
> 
> They had 2 champions:
> 1. one champion had let's say the heavyweight belt, just like in the UFC
> ...


This...

I figured this was coming. I have no problem with the belt not being on the line for a tournament. The winner definitely should get a shot for the belt, however.


----------



## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

Overeem is such a f**king p*ssy, its not like its an actual one night tournament, these are all separate fights that just happened to work out as a tournament. Overeem lose's and he is still the HW champion... thats just total BS imo. If they wanted all 3rd round fights thats fine but at the very least the winner of this tournament should still be crowned the champion, simple as that. If Overeem does manage to get beat, SF is gonna look like a total joke.


----------



## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Coker didn't make this decision.
> 
> The commissions wouldn't sanction 5 round fights in the tournament.


I still think because of the state SF is in, and how stupid whack its been, i still say the winner of the HW tourney should leave with the belt...

But whatever.... All good fights... It would just be truly annoying if Fedor beats Overeem in the tourney and loses the title fight lol


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

DJ Syko said:


> *Overeem is such a f**king p*ssy*, its not like its an actual one night tournament, these are all separate fights that just happened to work out as a tournament. Overeem lose's and he is still the HW champion... thats just total BS imo. If they wanted all 3rd round fights thats fine but at the very least the winner of this tournament should still be crowned the champion, simple as that. If Overeem does manage to get beat, SF is gonna look like a total joke.


:confused02: 
And why does this make Overeem a p*ssy?! 
I don't get it!!
You know he is fighting in the tournament, right? 
He didn't back out of it! He wanted to participate in the tournament and fight whoever they'll put in fron of him.

It's not his fault SF couldn't make the fights 5 rounders.

So excuse me, if i ask again?! Why is he a p**sy?! :confused02:


----------



## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

SmackyBear said:


> This really doesn't seem like the commissions were a problem...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So the only question would remain if the states in question where where the events were planned and if one or two were but one wasn't than an opening round of 5 rounds in the tourney leading to a second round of 3 rounds fights would kinda be akward as well..

Either way TBH I'm surprised that Alastair is competing here. Trust me I'm happy he is, but I figured this tournament was for a number 1 contender spot..

Either way at least these fights are taking place. IMO and they are superfights that I've wanted to see for a long time.

Not much could really ruin this for me except a bullshit decison, a cut stoppage or an injury pull out.. anything else is going straight past my radar and I'm gonna watch these guys wreck some shit.


----------



## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

atm I am not seeing the title not been on the line as a good thing since the winner no matter who may prevail would be a very worthy HW champion and it would take away all agmosity surrounding the SF HW belt and the fact it has not been defended regularly since its creation.

Fights wise yea no question that this is going to be one kick ass tourney with loads of fights to enjoy that all MMA fans should love to watch, but it really could of killed 2 birds with one stone and made the SF HW title the No.1 HW belt to hold hands down, where as now the GP belt is going to carry a lot more statue.

If the Reem wins and finish's all his fights within 3 rounds, which is a real huge possibility here, then you can forget about everything and just say yea the No.1 HW in the world is the SF HW champ and all can be forgotten, they could even unite the belts under the Reem and nobody could argue his legit claim to the title.

This can be turned into a good thing having 2 belts in the HW division as long as they run future GP's of this nature to allow the GP title to defended in the future, and just have the SF HW belt defended separately, which works out good as long as this is not a one off tournament, and they bring through future talent to take part.

If this tournament is a huge success and is repeated hell we may even see guys doing well in the UFC think screw this I want to compete in the SF GP in the near future, this could even force the UFC to start co-promoting so we can see these dream fights like Cain vs Fedor and JDS vs Overeem, the only thing standing in the way of this right now it the UFC policy against co-promotion but after they lose there No1 status surrounding having the best fighters, they maybe left with no choice but to let there fighters go out there and try to win it back.


----------



## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Killer the cross promotion and testing the "circuit" argument is getting really old. The UFC is never going to co-promote and Strikeforce will eventually fold no matter how much you hope against it. 

The Reem is an awesome fighter and could definitely be the Number one in the world. Without testing himself against the UFC's top fighters though it's all speculation. We need all the top guys under one banner to really see who's the best.

You should be rooting for the UFC to get all the top guys instead of the other way around anyway. This isn't even a GP like they keep saying. It's the same thing the UFC has done the past 18 months or so without labeling it a tournament. 

I can't wait for the fights either but for Strikeforce to act like this is a reincarnation of the 2000GP is ridiculous:confused03:


----------



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

KillerShark1985 said:


> atm I am not seeing the title not been on the line as a good thing since the winner no matter who may prevail would be a very worthy HW champion and it would take away all agmosity surrounding the SF HW belt and the fact it has not been defended regularly since its creation.
> 
> Fights wise yea no question that this is going to be one kick ass tourney with loads of fights to enjoy that all MMA fans should love to watch, but it really could of killed 2 birds with one stone and made the SF HW title the No.1 HW belt to hold hands down, where as now the GP belt is going to carry a lot more statue.
> 
> ...


Strikeforce has DREAM champion, WAMMA champion and Strikeforce champion, and this year we'll get the fourth unofficial title - Strikeforce GP champion, which will become the most meaningful among all. Hopefully, all of them will merge into one and UFC HW title will have a solid competition. On the other hand, the possibility of Overeem (possibly being the titles holder) leaving SF and joining Dana's crew would be high. In the event that he signs, Strikeforce is doomed. From this standpoint, management should root for Fedor because he won't go to UFC, he already unofficially dedicated himself to SF, Overeem "Destroyer" didn't, and if he smashes everyone and takes off, it's not good for neither DREAM nor Strikeforce... and for K-1.


----------



## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

limba said:


> :confused02:
> And why does this make Overeem a p*ssy?!
> I don't get it!!
> You know he is fighting in the tournament, right?
> ...


Ok maybe calling him a p*ssy was a bit much lol am actually a fan of him, but its obvious that he has gave himself this insurance so no matter what happens he is still gonna be the champ at the end of it all. Werdum has just beat the best HW on the planet and now he has to fight 3 more top 10 opponents(including the champion) before he can even get a shot at the title and you think thats fair? come on, clearly the winner of all this should be the SF HW champion. If it was all on 1 night like a real tournament then that would be different, but its not, they are all seperate fights that just happened to work out like a tourney, theres no different rules or anything. 

I dont have a problem with them all being 3 rounds either, my beef is that the "Final" is not a championship fight.


----------



## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

DJ Syko said:


> Ok maybe calling him a p*ssy was a bit much lol am actually a fan of him, but its obvious that he has gave himself this insurance so no matter what happens he is still gonna be the champ at the end of it all. Werdum has just beat the best HW on the planet and now he has to fight 3 more top 10 opponents(including the champion) before he can even get a shot at the title and you think thats fair? come on, clearly the winner of all this should be the SF HW champion. If it was all on 1 night like a real tournament then that would be different, but its not, they are all seperate fights that just happened to work out like a tourney, theres no different rules or anything.
> 
> I dont have a problem with them all being 3 rounds either, my beef is that the "Final" is not a championship fight.


That is understandable..


----------



## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

_RIVAL_ said:


> So the only question would remain if the states in question where where the events were planned and if one or two were but one wasn't than an opening round of 5 rounds in the tourney leading to a second round of 3 rounds fights would kinda be akward as well..


Yeah, that would be very strange. None of the venues are nailed down besides the one in NJ.

To be honest, the whole Barnett thing is awkward too. They have to make sure every event he could be a part of is in a state that is willing to license him.



KillerShark1985 said:


> If this tournament is a huge success and is repeated hell we may even see guys doing well in the UFC think screw this I want to compete in the SF GP in the near future, this could even force the UFC to start co-promoting so we can see these dream fights like Cain vs Fedor and JDS vs Overeem, the only thing standing in the way of this right now it the UFC policy against co-promotion but after they lose there No1 status surrounding having the best fighters, they maybe left with no choice but to let there fighters go out there and try to win it back.


That seems unlikely. The average viewers for Strikeforce events on Showtime are worse than WEC on Versus. Obviously, Showtime is in far fewer homes, but it still means fewer people are watching. Their two shows on CBS did considerably worse than what normal programs in their time slot would do, and they've yet to be invited back since the brawl. This tournament is big news here, but I doubt the casual fans even know it exists.

Unless the general public sees Strikeforce as a legitimate contender, they'll never force the UFC to do anything.



RustyRenegade said:


> Killer the cross promotion and testing the "circuit" argument is getting really old. The UFC is never going to co-promote and Strikeforce will eventually fold no matter how much you hope against it.


It's hard to say what will happen with Strikeforce. Just like Zuffa, they're a private company, so they don't have any public filings to look at.

But we do have info that their three year TV deal with Showtime and CBS was worth between $23.75M and $25M for 48 shows. It may end up being less than that since it's likely fewer than the maximum number of shows possible will go to CBS. If that's accurate, that's not a lot of revenue. The UFC has grossed more on single PPVs.

I certainly expect them to be losing money, but it's hard to know how much.


----------



## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

SmackyBear said:


> the whole Barnett thing is awkward too. They have to make sure every event he could be a part of is in a state that is willing to license him..


And that can be a contributing factor when trying to get some of these fights sanctioned...


----------



## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

_RIVAL_ said:


> And that can be a contributing factor when trying to get some of these fights sanctioned...


IIRC most states uphold suspensions or am I wrong?


----------



## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

I can understand the commission's rules regarding a 5 rounder during a tourney. But what the shit! What happens if Werdum beats Overeem, but Fedor beat Werdum in the the rematch, but then if Fedor and Overeem fight, Overeem wins. 

F*ck you MMA math. F*ck you. My hate is undeniable!


----------



## schiops (Jul 12, 2009)

If I were Werdum I would be pissed. The guy earns a title shot after beating Fedor and now he won't even get his shot.


----------



## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

what a mess :confused05: should be entertaining still, but sucks for Werdum.


----------



## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

RustyRenegade said:


> IIRC most states uphold suspensions or am I wrong?


They do, but he isn't suspended anymore. The suspension ran out last summer. But it's still up to commissions to decide if they'll grant a fighter's license.



> But regardless of whether Barnett's application is approved or denied, he currently is not on a registry of fighters under suspension that would preclude getting a fight license in the U.S. A one-year suspension triggered by his positive test ended this past June.
> 
> "His suspension is off the registry, and a denial doesn't go on the registry because that's each state's determination to make, as far as licensing an individual," Dodd said. "Not for me."
> 
> Although California, Nevada, and New Jersey are unlikely to grant the fighter a license, Strikeforce CEO Scott Coker told ESPN.com that several athletic commissions are willing to grant him a license provided that he passes a pre-fight test for steroids.


Source.

He's not even planning to show up at the CA hearing, so I don't think he'll be answering any of their questions. No fighting in CA for him, I guess. They don't name a source for the Nevada or New Jersey commissions, but I guess they have the same questions for him.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Coker didn't make this decision.
> 
> The commissions wouldn't sanction 5 round fights in the tournament.


Still think it is silly. I'm more glad to see actual good matchups than caring any about who is the make believe champ. But what is the point of a tournament if it really doesn't determine any sort of champ? Why even have a tourement? Why not just give us these matchups and have Werdum(the rightful #1 contender) fight Overeem for the belt? Then the winner of Fedor/Silva....and so on.

Defeats the purpose of having a tournement. But put a bracket up and people slobber all over it...even if it doesn't determine anything.

I'd rather forget this whole tourney thing and actually get a belt on he line. They already have a legit #1 contender.


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

After drinking a lot tonight i have only this to say:

Why cant everyone just be happy to watch all these fight in the SF tournament?!?!

For once we should just be greatful these fights are happening!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who the fff cares if the tournament is for a belt???? Who the fff cares if it's 3 rounds or 5 rounds ??? Who the fff cares if it's 3 judges or 1000 judges judging the fights?!?

Daaaaaamn, it's like i won't be able to sleep knowing Werdum or Barnett have won the tournament and Overeem is still the champ!!!! Honestly i don't care! This tournament is a huge opportunity to see some of the best HW in the world fighting against each other.

Let's just enjoy these awesome fights that are gonna happen.

If all the HW fight and at the end of the year Gina Carano is the new SF HW Champion - THE BETTER!!!

Best regards!

PS: excuse my grammar mistakes


----------



## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

Before the tournament, i'm pretty sure Overeem said he'd be ready in March to fight Fedor for the belt. But the date didn't fit Fedor's schedule - is that accurate?

Werdum was after a rematch with Fedor, not a title fight against Reem.

Both could have fought Overeem in a 5 round match if they wanted to, before the announcement of the bracket tournament. Though i'm sure the winner of the tournament gets atleast a cool trophy. 

In the instance of Overeem (the heavy favorite anyway) not winning the tournament, I'm sure the winner would become the #1 contender afterwards.


----------



## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

limba said:


> After drinking a lot tonight i have only this to say:
> 
> Why cant everyone just be happy to watch all these fight in the SF tournament?!?!
> 
> ...


QFT! :thumbsup:

Also, what Mr. O said - the winner (if it isn't Reem) will likely be #1 contender afterwards anyway.

No matter what, people will find something to whine about. Just relax, grab some brews, and enjoy these awesome fights.


----------



## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

RustyRenegade said:


> Killer the cross promotion and testing the "circuit" argument is getting really old. The UFC is never going to co-promote and Strikeforce will eventually fold no matter how much you hope against it.
> 
> The Reem is an awesome fighter and could definitely be the Number one in the world. Without testing himself against the UFC's top fighters though it's all speculation. We need all the top guys under one banner to really see who's the best.
> 
> ...


The UFC has enough on keeping the the WW and LW divisions going strong now with the introduction of the FW and BW divisions they have an even wider split of focus away from other division, and I would like to see the MW division continue to grow there also.

Having said that the UFC has had its chance to run all the division and maintain top scope in all and the result was the main focus been aimed at the lower weights and as a result the heaver weights HW especially suffered though lack of interest in both allocated air time and lack of scouting and keeping top new talent. And if you ask me the LHW division there is on a huge decline and suffering under the management of the UFC.

So maybe its time Srikeforce had there chance of hosting the top divisions in those to weights since thats where they like to hive most of there focus.

imo in the perfect MMA world Striekforce would unite the best HW's and LHW's in the world and give us the dream fights we want to see in those divisions and leave the UFC to handle the top divisions for all other weight classes.

in fact in the perfect world WEC would still be going to handle the FW and BW divisions leaving just the LW, WW and MW to the UFC.

The truth is the UFC has done a piss poor job in running the HW division imo and its time for the top fighters to give SF a chance to run the top HW division in the world taking up most of its focus.

Should SF become a specialist HE and LHW promotion like the WEC was specialist towards the BM and FW's then the divisions will be much better off in there hands, and thats where it seems to be heading.

I am not saying both promotions should not host fights in other weights but they should be just card fillers while the main focus in terms of both air time and scouting and recruiting new talent should be aimed more at there specialist divisions.


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> So maybe its time Srikeforce had there chance of hosting the top divisions in those to weights since thats where they like to hive most of there focus.
> 
> *imo in the perfect MMA world Striekforce would unite the best HW's and LHW's in the world and give us the dream fights we want to see in those divisions* and leave the UFC to handle the top divisions for all other weight classes.


What dream fights at LHW?!

Babalu - Rampage?!
Randleman - Shogun?!
Mo - Rashad?!

Honestly!!!!
the only division SF can hold its own against the UFC is the HW division. Because they have big names, talented, experienced fighters fighting for them. 

The SF LHW div is weak. Feijao is the best imo and he woul definitely be a TOP 1 guy in the UFC. Mousassi was a big dissapointment for me, against Mo.
Henderson is past his prime, *got beat up by a guy who is fighting at WW now*. Kyle has some power, but other than that he has nothing. Roger Gracie has amazing BJJ, but he doesn't have enough experience to hold his own against the best UFC LHWs. Babalu is a CAN! Not even a can!

The MW division: Jacare is great. Other than that there are Miller, Kennedy, wich i consider good fighters and i think they would do well in the UFC. I'm not buying Lawler's hype yet. Beating Lindland means nothing these days.

WW division: Diaz, Noons and Daley, who did nothing against the guy who did less than nothing against the UFC champ.

LW division: Melendez is great imo. He could be a contender in the UFC. Other than that: Thomson is decent. And Cavalcante. 

The rest: *cans!* (if i forgot some fighters, excuse me. i am tired and had some extra beers)

The SF is doing an excellent job atm promoting its biggest and most important asset: the HW division.
They should keep focusing on this until they can sign some big names in the other divisions.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

limba said:


> What dream fights at LHW?!
> 
> Babalu - Rampage?!
> Randleman - Shogun?!
> ...


Agree with all of this. HW is the only division that is excellent in SF. Their LHW division isn't good at all.


----------



## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

limba said:


> The SF LHW div is weak. Feijao is the best imo and he woul definitely be a TOP 1 guy in the UFC. Mousassi was a big dissapointment for me, against Mo.


Mousasi did the the same thing that the best pound for pound fighter in the world did w/out the last second submission. Against a better wreslter who has never come under question for PEDs.



limba said:


> Henderson is past his prime, *got beat up by a guy who is fighting at WW now*.


Henderson has won 4 out of his last 5 those wins are over

Rich Franklin
Babalu
Rousiamar Palhares
and Michael Bisbing

That doesn't sound like a fighter that is over the hill.. he lost to Jake Shields who is world ranked in 2 different weight classes.. Yushin Okami also lost to Jake... so what does that mean?



limba said:


> Kyle has some power, but other than that he has nothing.


Kyle has crazy power. And he's training at AKA with Cain Velasquez and Josh Koscheck.. he kept top position over a huge HW Bigfoot in his last fight for the entire round.. 



limba said:


> Roger Gracie has amazing BJJ, but he doesn't have enough experience to hold his own against the best UFC LHWs.


I'm not gonna do the UFC VS Strikeforce argument with you. For alot of members just having those letters across your gloves ups your skill set 90%



limba said:


> Babalu is a CAN! Not even a can!


Babalu is not a can.. He's lost twice since 2007 to 2 of the top 5 LHWS in Strikeforce in Gegard Mousasi and Dan Henderson.

As far as LHW is concerned...
Feijao
Hendo
Mousasi
King Mo
Kyle
Ovince St. Preux
Babalu
and Roger Gracie

Comet to mind right away... thats not bad for an organizaiton that has only recently taken world stage when you think about it...



limba said:


> WW division: Diaz, Noons and Daley, who did nothing against the guy who did less than nothing against the UFC champ.


Tyron Woodley and Tarec Saffedine need to be watched... those two are beasts.. 



limba said:


> LW division: Melendez is great imo. He could be a contender in the UFC. Other than that: Thomson is decent. And Cavalcante.
> 
> The rest: *cans!* (if i forgot some fighters, excuse me. i am tired and had some extra beers)


This is where you're real wrong...

Jorge Masvidal 
Billy Evangelista
Justin Wilcox
Lyle Beerbohm

These guys are like the 4 horsemen all heavily skilled and capable of wreckin shit.

Beerbom and Evangelista are undefeated , Masvidal is slick striker with KO wins over Joe Lauzon and Yves Edwards, and Wilcox is just a beast, he just shut down Vitor Riberio in his last fight...

Those guys are very exciting and are the new generation of LWs in STRIKEFORCE..

Throw them in with Thompson, Melendez, JZ and Noons when he bounces back from WW like he does and you got some fights.....

Include the cross promotion with DREAM fighters like Aoki and the fact that Kawajiri is more than likely on his way over this year and you must have bumped your head to say that STRIKEFORCEs LW divsion is a bunch of cans...




limba said:


> The SF is doing an excellent job atm promoting its biggest and most important asset: the HW division.
> They should keep focusing on this until they can sign some big names in the other divisions.



At this point WW needs work but as it is they are well on their way of having a very respectable promotion.


----------



## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

Not to take sides, but limba just got served.


----------



## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

my point with the LHW division at SF is that it is on the rise big time and given focus at the promotion, while at the UFC it is on the decline it has lost much more than it has gained over the last year in the UFC and and the vast majority of fighters in the UFC LHW division are 3rd rate making it an easy claim for the few decent fighters they do have.

Hence the UFC are doing a very poor job at proving top fights and new talented fighters at not only HW but also at LHW, because it gives way to much focus to the lower weights and as a result it lets the LHW and HW divisions suffer.

The UFC can't handle running all divisions as strongly, for the record nether could Stirkeforce I believe, thats why I belive its best for the fans if the 2 promotions split the loads and becoem specialist in different weight classes, both are going to exist the UFC will fail to be the last promotion standing while others all fall, which would be really bad for the sport anyway, so that sthe best way if could be split up.


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

I don't see the problem, this is like pride when they had the GP belt and a HW belt


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

In all honesty i dont see how this is a big deal. If someone beats Overeem in the tournament and becomes the GP champ, everybody will know who the real champion is so what difference does it make?


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Rusko said:


> Not to take sides, but limba just got served.


Served?! No.
More like given a lesson about SF.
Rival is one of the most knowledgeable members on this forum and he knows his thing about SF. You migh say it's his biggest stregth 

I am not the biggest SF fan and ai admit of not knowing everything there is to know a bout SF, because i fon't get to see it that often: limited acces to SF events being a part of this.

Plus, i wasn't 100% sober at the time of my previous post. :shame02: I may have forgotten to mention some fighters.
But i will continue to stick to some of the statements i made.



_RIVAL_ said:


> Mousasi did the the same thing that the best pound for pound fighter in the world did w/out the last second submission. Against a better wreslter who has never come under question for PEDs.
> 
> Henderson has won 4 out of his last 5 those wins are over
> 
> ...


Not bad at all! I agree. They came a long way in recent times.
But i am still gonna give the UFC a big advantage when it comes to the LHW division. I think they have the better, more skilled, well-rounded fighters. 
That doesn't mean one of the SF LHWs coudn't beat a UFC LHW. 
But overall UFC's LHW is far better than SF's.

And my previous post was ment as a reply to Killer's post in wich he expressed his opinion about SF becoming the leading fight organisation for the big weight classes and the UFC for the lower weight classes: MW-WW-LW-FW-BW.
Wich i found ridiculous! Considering the UFC has a better LHW division, why would that make any sense?!
I'm still sticking to my original opinion: 

*Feijao* would do well in the UFC. No doubt. 
Mike Kyle is on bad mf. Huge guy, lots of power. he would be more than decent imo, but i don't see him being a contender. His record speaks for itself: 18-8-1. 
*Mousassi* - is very skilled, but he lacks something to push him over the edge. Imo that something would be a world class Training Camp. He would be in the mix in the UFC's LHW division. I admit: i thought Mousassi was gonna be bigger than he is atm. In terms of his career. But he is still young and has time to evolve.
*Henderson* is not done, but i don't think he has what it takes to be a TOP fighter in the UFC for example.
*Gracie* is an amazing grappler, but 3 wins in his MMA career, spread on a 4 year period, doesn't say anything. His biggest win against a 39 yr old washed up Randleman. But, at 29 he still has time to improve, wich i think he will. He needs to improve his skill set though. 
*Mo* - other than his wrestling and some KO power in his fists, he has nothing. His cardio is very poor. His standup is mediocre. His BJJ is mediocre also. He is like a younger less skilled Tito Ortiz, but stronger. I'm not buying his hype.
*Ovince st Preux* - saw him against Benji Radach, he looked decent, dominated the fight, but had problems trying to finnish the fight and was slowing down big time at the end of each round. But then again...who is Radach?! A guy who got KO'd by Scott Smith. St Preux isn't that skilled. He is a big strong guy, but he is mediocre overall.
And as far as *Babalu* is concerned, he is done for me. I think he doesn't have that much to offer to the other LHW's. It may sound like i have something against him, but it's something i feel.

PS: we both forgot about Trevor Prangley . He is gonna be an interesting test for Gracie.



_RIVAL_ said:


> Tyron Woodley and Tarec Saffedine need to be watched... those two are beasts..


Forgot about Woodley.
I admit on knowing close to nothing about Saffedine. I will do some research.



_RIVAL_ said:


> This is where you're real wrong...
> 
> Jorge Masvidal
> Billy Evangelista
> ...


Forgot about Mesvidal.
I know about Evangelista, but not that much about Beerbohm and Wilcox. My bad on this.

But having said that, don't you think SF should make some of these fights happen?! Have Wilcox fight Thosmon, or Mesvida fight Evangelista. these are fights the fans would love to see. 
Imo SF are focusing too much on Melendez. Every second news you hear about the SF LW division is about Melendez. They should promote more these fighters you have mentioned and make some of these fights happen.
It would add more credibility to the LW division and make it more popular among the non-hardcore fans. Or those who don't know that much about SF.



_RIVAL_ said:


> At this point WW needs work but as it is *they are well on their way of having a very respectable promotion.*


Agreed!


----------



## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

Stupid question but if the HW belt isnt on the line for the tournament winner is it on the line when Overeem fights in the individual matches within the tournament? ie if Werdum beats the reem will he get the belt?


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

The_Senator said:


> Nice way to earn the title shot you have to beat the champion (+ the best HW in MMA history twice) to earn the right to face him again. Lol



Being *the best fighter at heavyweight in mma history* is about your record at heavyweight not potential at heavyweight, clearly he's not there yet.

He might get to that level of prestige but he's not there now not even close, He'll have to beat more than a few top ten guys to leapfrog over Fedor and prob need to beat Fedor himself most of the guys he'll need to beat to lay claim to "the best ever" are all in the UFC anyway.


pipe said:


> Stupid question but if the HW belt isnt on the line for the tournament winner is it on the line when Overeem fights in the individual matches within the tournament? ie if Werdum beats the reem will he get the belt?


Seeing as the individual fights are all part of the tournament, your right that was a stupid question.


----------



## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

limba said:


> After drinking a lot tonight i have only this to say:
> 
> Why cant everyone just be happy to watch all these fight in the SF tournament?!?!
> 
> ...


Because not discussing things is not what the internet is about. 

Just look at all the "does X deserve a title shot" type of threads. The championships matter to people. If they didn't, there'd be no reason to have them.



KillerShark1985 said:


> The UFC can't handle running all divisions as strongly, for the record nether could Stirkeforce I believe, thats why I belive its best for the fans if the 2 promotions split the loads and becoem specialist in different weight classes, both are going to exist the UFC will fail to be the last promotion standing while others all fall, which would be really bad for the sport anyway, so that sthe best way if could be split up.


Perhaps we could measure what the fans want, by what they're willing to buy?

The top three UFC PPVs last year all had either HW or LHW main events, and each sold 1M buys.

Looks like the fans like the way the UFC is handling them.


----------



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

slapshot said:


> Being *the best fighter at heavyweight in mma history* is about your record at heavyweight not potential at heavyweight, clearly he's not there yet.


Why is this relevant? Last summer Fedor was ranked #1 heavyweight in the most rankings and throughout MMA history there hasn't been any other heavyweight reigning as long as Fedor did. Couture, Shogun, Rampage and many other famous fighters called him the best. Since 2008 not much has changed. Lesnar is all about the hype, he doesn't have accomplishments of his own in MMA, Velasquez just exposed what we all knew and got the belt. And Cain's record is very good and he has the potential, but he needs years to prove that he can rule the division and reign long. Werdum humiliated Fedor at the right time when Fedor was still undefeated, so if Silva beats him, the victory won't look as meaningful as Werdum's.


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

The_Senator said:


> Why is this relevant? Last summer Fedor was ranked #1 heavyweight in the most rankings and throughout MMA history there hasn't been any other heavyweight reigning as long as Fedor did. Couture, Shogun, Rampage and many other famous fighters called him the best. Since 2008 not much has changed. Lesnar is all about the hype, he doesn't have accomplishments of his own in MMA, Velasquez just exposed what we all knew and got the belt. And Cain's record is very good and he has the potential, but he needs years to prove that he can rule the division and reign long. Werdum humiliated Fedor at the right time when Fedor was still undefeated, so if Silva beats him, the victory won't look as meaningful as Werdum's.


If you really dont know the difference between saying "number one heavyweight in the world" and "the best HW in MMA history" Im just going to make it less painful on those that do and give up on my point.


----------



## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

slapshot said:


> Being *the best fighter at heavyweight in mma history* is about your record at heavyweight not potential at heavyweight, clearly he's not there yet.
> 
> He might get to that level of prestige but he's not there now not even close, He'll have to beat more than a few top ten guys to leapfrog over Fedor and prob need to beat Fedor himself most of the guys he'll need to beat to lay claim to "the best ever" are all in the UFC anyway.


I think The_Senator was saying it was crazy that Werdum would have to beat the best HW in history (already beat Fedor once), then Overeem the HW champ, then the best HW in history again, and then the winner of the right bracket to get a title shot.

So when he said "the champ (+the best HW in history twice)" He wasn't saying that Overeem was the best HW in history, but that Overeem was the champ, Fedor was the best HW in history.

Your response made it sound like you thought he meant Overeem was the best HW in history.


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Yeah I did so my bad on that one although he could have just cleared it up like you did.:thumb02:


----------



## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

slapshot said:


> Yeah I did so my bad on that one although he could have just cleared it up like you did.:thumb02:


My guess is he didn't realize that you were talking about Overeem.

It's easy for these weird miscommunications to happen when it's just text.

Anyhoo, just a few weeks until the opening two matches. Should be fun.


----------



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

SmackyBear said:


> I think The_Senator was saying it was crazy that Werdum would have to beat the best HW in history (already beat Fedor once), then Overeem the HW champ, then the best HW in history again, and then the winner of the right bracket to get a title shot.
> 
> So when he said "the champ (+the best HW in history twice)" He wasn't saying that Overeem was the best HW in history, but that Overeem was the champ, Fedor was the best HW in history.
> 
> Your response made it sound like you thought he meant Overeem was the best HW in history.


Precisely!


----------



## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

That's pretty lame.


----------



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

D.P. said:


> That's pretty lame.


Well, I'm aware that I'm not TOP 10 on this forum


----------



## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

The_Senator said:


> Well, I'm aware that I'm not TOP 10 on this forum


I'm confused...I didn't say you were lame, or that anything you posted was lame. I'm talking about The belt not being on the line for the tournament. :confused02:


----------



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

D.P. said:


> I'm confused...I didn't say you were lame, or that anything you posted was lame. I'm talking about The belt not being on the line for the tournament. :confused02:


OK, I'm sorry


----------



## strikersrevenge (Nov 20, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbDy34DuypA


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

SmackyBear said:


> Just look at all the "does X deserve a title shot" type of threads. The championships matter to people. If they didn't, there'd be no reason to have them.


The basic idea i was trying to promote is: let's get over the fact that the belt won't be on the line.

We are not fighting for the belt, the fighters are. It's something they should be concerned/angry/happy...(whateva) about.

So far i haven't seen any SF HW come out and criticise this decision.

Let's all enjoy these awesome fights. That was my advice. And i am sticking to it.
At the end of the day, everything that matters is watching some of the best fighters in the world showcasing their skills and putting on great performances for the world to see.


----------



## Hendo (Mar 2, 2007)

people are slow or what. No title on the line mean only 3 round 5.. Why every one should fight 3 round fight and the champ 5 time each time. for a tournemant that kind of retarded dont u think


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Totally un-needed tournement.

Would rather Werdum and Overeem fight for the title right now. Winner of Fedor/Silva gets next shot. They are already doing these fights...why do they have to be in a tournement? They have perfect fights lined up? Why wait on the title? 

Makes little sense to even run a tourney. The fights would all be fine on cards. They have a legit #1 contender.


----------



## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Totally un-needed tournement.
> 
> Would rather Werdum and Overeem fight for the title right now. Winner of Fedor/Silva gets next shot. They are already doing these fights...why do they have to be in a tournement? They have perfect fights lined up? Why wait on the title?
> 
> Makes little sense to even run a tourney. The fights would all be fine on cards. They have a legit #1 contender.


Werdum didn't want to fight Overeem, Fedor's contract was an issue. Coker most likely used the tournament as a bargain with the fighters/managers to get the fights he wanted, hence the poor seeding in the tournament.


----------



## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

fljaweiu said:


> You know that, *for many people deepened spiritual growth is a primary goal*. And the Amethyst and clear cartier pens quartz are helpful stones in realizing this. And the Amethyst is a transition stone; it bridges physical and spiritual cartier love bracelet replica, and thus is very valuable in meditation. And this is why so many people have a great interest in our buy wow gold products. Of course, for yourself, you can create your affirmation image in front of other people through love bracelet free buying the rs gold sale. Hurry up to purchase ones you like best is also your first choice. So you can log on cartier love bracelet. There many
> choices you can make.


Really I just assumed that the driving primary goal was to get laid as much as possible.


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

None of these guys are making it out of the second with Overeem anyways but this is still stupid as hell. How does it even matter that Overeem's fights would have championship rounds? It isn't a real tournament. He isn't fighting more than once a night so the other fighters don't gain an advantage.

Why does strikeforce even have titles? They are rarely defended and even when they are it is usually against someone who hasn't done anything to deserve a shot.


----------



## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

osmium said:


> None of these guys are making it out of the second with Overeem anyways but this is still stupid as hell. How does it even matter that Overeem's fights would have championship rounds? It isn't a real tournament. He isn't fighting more than once a night so the other fighters don't gain an advantage.
> 
> Why does strikeforce even have titles? They are rarely defended and even when they are it is usually against someone who hasn't done anything to deserve a shot.


They have to have a belt because it looks good as part of Overeem collection, look at see for yourself.










Hey I wonder it they make another Belt for the GP Champ that would be cool, I sure I heard somewhere, probably somewhere in this threat they they are doing, and lets face it for at least a year that belt will hold more credibility than any other in MMA right now, they will have to repeat this event tho to maintain it status.


----------



## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

osmium said:


> None of these guys are making it out of the second with Overeem anyways but this is still stupid as hell. How does it even matter that Overeem's fights would have championship rounds? It isn't a real tournament. He isn't fighting more than once a night so the other fighters don't gain an advantage.
> 
> Why does strikeforce even have titles? They are rarely defended and even when they are it is usually against someone who hasn't done anything to deserve a shot.


Just because they don't fight more then once in one night doesn't mean it isn't a tournament.

It's only the final rounds of the K-1 and PRIDE tournaments where you do that anyways.


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

guy incognito said:


> Just because they don't fight more then once in one night doesn't mean it isn't a tournament.
> 
> It's only the final rounds of the K-1 and PRIDE tournaments where you do that anyways.


K1 tournaments are 3 in one night so 8 fighters the same as this "tournament" everything before that is qualifiers and even some of those are 3 in one night tournaments. This is in no way a tournament. The top 4 fighters are on one side of the bracket by design not random draw and they aren't fighting more than once a night. As I said when this was announced and someone else pointed out with an image with a "ufc grand prix" bracket everything the UFC does is a tournament by these standards. Except titles are actually defended against contenders.


----------



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

I agree. Overeem will be simply fighting #1 contender. The fight between Fedor and Bigfoot will determine #2 contender. Everyone on the right side is too far in the rankings for fighting the guys from the left side. So the entire side will reveal the best one from the worst and hence the contender #3. Sounds more like intelligent marketing move from SF to get more attention (and a successful one), especially when you take into consideration the fact that Overeem's title was initially expected to be on the line in every single 5-round fight. Later, this idea was dropped, so that the tournament would become more believable when in reality it's just revelation of one-year plan. The champion fighting #1 contenders throughout this year while the others trying to earn this #1 contender status. Structure is very simple, everything else is a beautiful veil.


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Basically in the end of the Grand Prix if Overeem makes it to the finals. I agree that Fedor is basically the number two contender. But overall the Grand Prix seeding is a little confusing!


----------

