# ufc releases worst and best



## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

edit: following the release of Todd Duffee, what fighters ufc released were good and which were bad?


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## Couchwarrior (Jul 13, 2007)

Releasing Werdum seemed pretty dumb at the time, but in hindsight, if they hadn't done it, Fedor would still be the same undefeated pain in the ass to the UFC. I guess you could call it retard luck on Dana's and Lorenzo's part.


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## Can.Opener (Apr 8, 2009)

You've nailed the big ones really.

I'd add:

Elliot Marshall - Won 3 in a row including beating Brilz before losing to Matyushenko and was cut. Beat Josh Haynes at Ring of Fire in August 2010 by decision.

Jake Rosholt - Lost to Miller and Grove but beat Chris Leben. Has one vitory in the XFL in 2010(RNC).

Din Thomas - Defeated Guida, Clementi and Stephens before losing to Florian and Neer. Is on a three fight streak in lesser promotions. Was cut prematurely.

Thales Leites - lost to Silva and Sakara and was cut despite coming off a five win streak including beating Marquardt (although the point deductions played a major role) and McFedries. Went on another 3 fight streak but has one recent loss in 2010.

Mike Ciesnolevicz - lost a catchweight fight to Drwal after failing to make 205 and was cut.

Josh Neer - Lost decisions to Pellegrino, Tibau and Diaz, but also beat Danzig and Thomas. His losses weren't dominations aside from being out grappled on the ground.


Drew McFedries - he deserved to get cut but I don't care. I want to see this guy stand against other brawlers because it's awesome.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...Politics & money. I wonder what clause in their contracts gives them the boot? Look how long it took Jardine to finally get cut after receiving nasty KO after KO & split decisions. Kimbo gets on TUF, loses to Nelson but still gets into the Octagon for a PPV debut. That was all about money. The decisions the UFC makes are very strange and are justified in suspect. I really think it's about money. Most everyone knew Couture would take out Toney, but it was a huge draw from the Boxers who were curious. Now with the UFC putting PPV's a week apart it's even more suspect. It's become apparent why Hendo and many others have stated strong opinions about Dana and the decisions that have been made. I'm glad Strikeforce is getting stacked divisions with the women becoming popular. With the UFC vets going to Strikeforce, it only makes the thorn in Dana's side even harder to deal with cause Strikeforce really is getting better & better...


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

Couchwarrior said:


> Releasing Werdum seemed pretty dumb at the time, but in hindsight, if they hadn't done it, Fedor would still be the same undefeated pain in the ass to the UFC. I guess you could call it retard luck on Dana's and Lorenzo's part.


you could see it "this way" but i think the opposite is the case. when a ufc fighter gets released and looks bad, it makes the ufc's decision correct. for example dan henderson, arlovski, jardine, huerta all looked horrible as of late justifying the ufc release. werdum has now made a case that both him and fedor are top fighters outside the ufc. dana white was just happy hes not going to get bugged all the time about the undfeated 30-0 fighter out of russia, but now he could have had a top fighter in werdum and still gave him up, which just shows his stupidity. its really the lesser of two evils.



Can.Opener said:


> You've nailed the big ones really.
> 
> I'd add:
> 
> ...


i agree about marshall the only thing i could think of was probably the entertainment value that was lacking.

Din Thomas also agreed the loss to Florian was due to self inflicted injury

rosholt i disagree he was released due to lack of experience and beat leben on short notice. look at leben vs aaron simpson for comparison.

Leites just got beat by Howrich by RNC. a world champion in grappling should never let this happen.

that other guy who cut to 205 i cant even spell or pronounce his name im glad he was cut

Josh Neer is really B level hes a good fighter but probably will suit smaller promotions

Drew Mcfederies is absolutely overrated and beats guys that cant strike. look at him vs cote, he was completely outstruck and outclassed. id rather watch cote then him.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

> Mayhem Miller- lost to GSP in his only UFC match, and since then moved to MW. since then had 10 wins and 3 losses, including wins over Robbie Lawler, Tim Kennedy and Kala Hose while losing to Trigg, Jacare and Shields. probably deserves another chance


I actually think this is Mayhems choice because he said something about only wanting 1 fight contracts so he can fight when and where he wants. UFC will only do multi-fight contracts.


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

cdtcpl said:


> I actually think this is Mayhems choice because he said something about only wanting 1 fight contracts so he can fight when and where he wants. UFC will only do multi-fight contracts.


you sure about this? would the ufc really be willing to do 1 and done contracts? i know they did it with cro cop but they had a close relationship with him. what if he defeated gsp back then (highly unlikely of course). i saw ufc do 1 and done before like with nick thompson and hieron, but hieron is headed back.

also i think mayhem may need some more fights outside the ufc


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

UFC86 said:


> you sure about this? would the ufc really be willing to do 1 and done contracts? i know they did it with cro cop but they had a close relationship with him. what if he defeated gsp back then (highly unlikely of course). i saw ufc do 1 and done before like with nick thompson and hieron, but hieron is headed back.
> 
> also i think mayhem may need some more fights outside the ufc


Mayhem's fight against GSP was meant to be a one off. He wasn't cut nor let go. He fought and was on his way.GSP needed an opponent so Mayhem was brought in. After that the UFC didn't really want or need him. It was only I think last year when his contract ran up where UFC contacted him again but they wanted him to do the Ultimate Fighter to get into the UFC. Mayhem of course said no and that he wanted to fight in parts of the world


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Kimbo Slice.

James Toney.


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

Sousa said:


> Mayhem's fight against GSP was meant to be a one off. He wasn't cut nor let go. He fought and was on his way.GSP needed an opponent so Mayhem was brought in. After that the UFC didn't really want or need him. It was only I think *last year when his contract ran up where UFC contacted him again but they wanted him to do the Ultimate Fighter to get into the UFC. Mayhem of course said no and that he wanted to fight in parts of the world*


do you have a source on that? sounds like a stupid move on mayhem's behalf. he could have been on the show and made it into the ufc,hes good for it hes young and got crazy personality, and the competition wasnt that high. instead he will be fighting in strikeforce where he is not likely to be the champion, and if youre not champion youre chances of landing in ufc decrease tremendously


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

UFC86 said:


> do you have a source on that? sounds like a stupid move on mayhem's behalf. he could have been on the show and made it into the ufc,hes good for it hes young and got crazy personality, and the competition wasnt that high. instead he will be fighting in strikeforce where he is not likely to be the champion, and if youre not champion youre chances of landing in ufc decrease tremendously


He's making more money with his own tv show, mtv appearances, and fighting than he would have made in the UFC. Plus, he still gets a rebirth in his future when he DOES go to the UFC. So, I would consider that a smart move. (He is rich right now, not a struggling fighter)


And he is right. The source : Mayhem Mondays.


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

SJ said:


> He's making more money with his own tv show, mtv appearances, and fighting than he would have made in the UFC. Plus, he still gets a rebirth in his future when he DOES go to the UFC. So, I would consider that a smart move. (He is rich right now, not a struggling fighter)
> 
> 
> And he is right. The source : Mayhem Mondays.


are you saying that his bully beatdown career got any direct connection with his mma career?


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

Din Thomas....bad cut


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

UFC86 said:


> following the release of Todd Duffee, what fighters ufc released were good and which were bad?
> 
> Todd Duffee- a big HW prospect (and theres not many) had quickest win in ufc history, then dominated russow and lost by a haymaker close to the end. was scheduled to fight Madsen and had to pull out. according to him was released due to acting commitments. releasing a big prospect is always bad
> *To early to tell really hasn't one jack in the sport yet.*
> ...


......................................................


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Trix said:


> Kimbo Slice.
> 
> James Toney.



I meant that as being 2 of the worst cuts the UFC has made, btw. :thumbsdown:

I think Kimbo should have gotten a 2nd fight to show the first loss wasn't a fluke. Kimbo is typically in better shape and trains harder than a lot of fighters who are UFC regulars. He's not like Ben Rothwell or Dan Lauzon where a case could be made that he might not be taking things seriously or training to his full potential.

James Toney should have gotten a 2nd fight for many of the same reasons. Maybe not against Randy Couture or Lesnar. Moreso against someone like Pat Barry. I think Dana is afraid Toney might pull out an upset and UFC will lose credibility. If that's the case, its a bitch move on Dana's part. If Toney is willing to fight, why should the UFC or MMA be the ones to back down? If a boxer is willing to fight in MMA, why should it be the MMA fighters or Dana who are the ones chickening out?


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

Trix said:


> I meant that as being 2 of the worst cuts the UFC has made, btw.
> I think Kimbo should have gotten a 2nd fight to show the first loss wasn't a fluke. Kimbo is typically in better shape and trains harder than a lot of fighters who are UFC regulars. He's not like Ben Rothwell or Dan Lauzon where a case could be made that he might not be taking things seriously or training to his full potential.
> 
> James Toney should have gotten a 2nd fight for many of the same reasons. Maybe not against Randy Couture or Lesnar. Moreso against someone like Pat Barry. I think Dana is afraid Toney might pull out an upset and UFC will lose credibility. If that's the case, its a bitch move on Dana's part. If Toney is willing to fight, why should the UFC or MMA be the ones to back down? If a boxer is willing to fight in MMA, why should it be the MMA fighters or Dana who are the ones chickening out?


are you seriously saying theyre the worst?
kimbo is not on UFC's level, and probably not on strikeforce level (thats why they didnt sign him). look at what he has done since beating tank: hardly beating James Thompson, getting knocked out in 14 seconds by seth petruzelli whose a 205 losing to roy nelson, beating houston who got cut @225 and then losing to mitrione who got even less experience. he could have fought kongo, chuck, seth, hunt etc but whats the point he would have lost.

james toney MIGHT beat some fighters in ufc HW division (watch Mercer vs Sylvia) but the higher caliber of fighters who will take the technical route (lesnar, carwin, cain) will beat him

edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by UFC86 
following the release of Todd Duffee, what fighters ufc released were good and which were bad?

i dont disagree with toxic on most of the points except a couple

*Best Cut EVER. No I don't hate Werdum at all but from the UFC's point of view you have a great fighter with no real fan base on a losing streak, you release him and he goes to strikeforce and starts picking up wins over there top guys , suddenly you can discredit them, just like Dana just did to Fedor.*

you cannot just discredit them. all werdum proved is that dana made a huge mistake of releasing such a great fighter who got knocked out by another great fighter in JDS. amirgiht?

*Hendo is tough but you can hardly blame the UFC for not upsetting the pay scale for a guy who has never been that really marketable star.*

who really in ufc is marketable except the old school fighters(chuck, randy, tito, penn, GSP) and cross-overs(Lesnar). is Carwin a huge name? is Frankie Edgar? is Nate Marquardt? no ufc fighter can be like floyd mayweather and start their own promotions and sell huge numbers like that.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

UFC86 said:


> are you seriously saying theyre the worst?
> kimbo is not on UFC's level, and probably not on strikeforce level (thats why they didnt sign him). look at what he has done since beating tank: hardly beating James Thompson, getting knocked out in 14 seconds by seth petruzelli whose a 205 losing to roy nelson, beating houston who got cut @225 and then losing to mitrione who got even less experience. he could have fought kongo, chuck, seth, hunt etc but whats the point he would have lost.
> 
> james toney MIGHT beat some fighters in ufc HW division (watch Mercer vs Sylvia) but the higher caliber of fighters who will take the technical route (lesnar, carwin, cain) will beat him



I think those were the worst cuts that haven't been mentioned, yet.

-Seth Petruzelli has... 14 wins and 12 KO's to his credit. Not much shame in being KO'ed by someone with higher than an 80% KO average. 

-Kimbo lost to Nelson on the ground where he had almost no training or experience. Not really a legitimate loss.

-I think Mitrione is vastly under-rated at heavyweight. I could see Mitrione taking on someone like Bader or the Nog bros and winning via KO power. 

I still think Kimbo is a preferable fighter to heavyweights like Gilbert Yvel or Ben Rothwell. At least Kimbo is an active fighter, gets himself in shape and is willing to fight pretty much anyone. He's also constantly learning and improving his skills. The same can't necessarily be said of everyone who fights in the UFC.

Kimbo isn't a boring fighter and that should count for something. :thumbsup:

Nevermind James Toney. Now that I remember his $500,000 payday, I begin to understand why the UFC cut him.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Trix said:


> At least Kimbo is an active fighter, gets himself in shape and is willing to fight pretty much anyone.


Willing to fight anyone but James McSweeney right?


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

Trix said:


> I think those were the worst cuts that haven't been mentioned, yet.
> 
> -Seth Petruzelli has... 14 wins and 12 KO's to his credit. Not much shame in being KO'ed by someone with higher than an 80% KO average.
> *he fights at 205*
> ...


Kimbo and Toney are NOT good fighters, in fact they are somewhere around C level


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

Trix said:


> I meant that as being 2 of the worst cuts the UFC has made, btw. :thumbsdown:
> 
> I think Kimbo should have gotten a 2nd fight to show the first loss wasn't a fluke. Kimbo is typically in better shape and trains harder than a lot of fighters who are UFC regulars. He's not like Ben Rothwell or Dan Lauzon where a case could be made that he might not be taking things seriously or training to his full potential.
> 
> James Toney should have gotten a 2nd fight for many of the same reasons. Maybe not against Randy Couture or Lesnar. Moreso against someone like Pat Barry. I think Dana is afraid Toney might pull out an upset and UFC will lose credibility. If that's the case, its a bitch move on Dana's part. If Toney is willing to fight, why should the UFC or MMA be the ones to back down? If a boxer is willing to fight in MMA, why should it be the MMA fighters or Dana who are the ones chickening out?


...Toney should have gotten Pat Barry? [email protected] that dude! Couture was a safer bet so Toney could still have his boxing career. Dude- If Toney fought Pat Barry it would have been too ugly to watch. James would have been either knocked out ice cold with Pat's nasty highkick or better yet if Barry launched his missle-like legkicks, Toney would have crumbled to the canvas in brutal pain. Barry could easliy end Toney's career with his vicious legkicks...


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Joabbuac said:


> Willing to fight anyone but James McSweeney right?


He didn't say he wouldn't fight James McSweeney. Only that he had no idea how to begin defending against kicks. 



UFC86 said:


> Kimbo and Toney are NOT good fighters, in fact they are somewhere around C level


They are good fighters.

If Toney isn't a good fighter, why didn't Couture stand with him?

And, if Kimbo isn't a good fighter, why did Nelson take him down(after getting punished on his feet)?

They're good fighters. Their losses have moreso to do with weaknesses in their game being exposed and a lack of experience than anything else.



BrutalKO said:


> ...Toney should have gotten Pat Barry? [email protected] that dude! Couture was a safer bet so Toney could still have his boxing career. Dude- If Toney fought Pat Barry it would have been too ugly to watch. James would have been either knocked out ice cold with Pat's nasty highkick or better yet if Barry launched his missle-like legkicks, Toney would have crumbled to the canvas in brutal pain. Barry could easliy end Toney's career with his vicious legkicks...


Would've, could've, might've. 

DIDN'T is the word that comes to mind.

Barry hits hard. But, so what. It doesn't guarantee anything..


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

Trix said:


> He didn't say he wouldn't fight James McSweeney. Only that he had no idea how to begin defending against kicks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



because in MMA to be a good fighter you have to have a well rounded game..... if you dont.... well see their last losses.... Toney is a very good boxer... crap fighter. Kimbo is a very good brawler.... crap fighter.

being very good at 1 aspect of fighting does not make you a good fighter. it makes you good at that 1 thing.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

JuggNuttz said:


> because in MMA to be a good fighter you have to have a well rounded game..... if you dont.... well see their last losses.... Toney is a very good boxer... crap fighter. Kimbo is a very good brawler.... crap fighter.
> 
> being very good at 1 aspect of fighting does not make you a good fighter. it makes you good at that 1 thing.


Kimbo is not really good at anything.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

Trix said:


> He didn't say he wouldn't fight James McSweeney. Only that he had no idea how to begin defending against kicks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


...Hey you mentioned Barry's name. I just put into perspective...


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Trix said:


> He didn't say he wouldn't fight James McSweeney. Only that he had no idea how to begin defending against kicks.


Dana gave him a way in...he opened the door for him and Kimbo didnt want it. Who cares if he hasnt learned leg kicks...everyone in that series (bar th winner) was extremely limited. Wes Shivers...the guy McSweeney fought first also had no idea out to defend...but he tried..he got in there and gave it a shot.


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

rockybalboa25 said:


> Kimbo is not really good at anything.


hes good at knocking out untrained fighters at a burger king parking lot or family BBQ....... just sayin....


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

JuggNuttz said:


> hes good at *knocking out untrained fighters* at a burger king parking lot or family BBQ....... just sayin....


depends on your definition of a knock out. if by that you mean dropping them on the ground then yeah for sure. but knocking them out unconscious where theyre out for a number of minutes...i dont know if he had any.

dreads he dropped and he quit
big mac he was knocking down awkwardly but he was always regaining consciousness.
adrian im not sure it cuts in the middle after the last knockdown.
big D he just knocks for a second
the Bouncer was just pretending to be out
Chico was just down
Bo Cantrell took a dive
Tank got dropped but chose to stay down
all the others he never knocked down


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

UFC86 said:


> depends on your definition of a knock out. if by that you mean dropping them on the ground then yeah for sure. but knocking them out unconscious where theyre out for a number of minutes...i dont know if he had any.
> 
> dreads he dropped and he quit
> big mac he was knocking down awkwardly but he was always regaining consciousness.
> ...


my reply was a play on Dana White's comments on Kimbo pre-TUF....... its all good tho :thumb02:


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

todd duffee and efrain escudero were definetly the worst releases as of late. they were both up and coming fighters with potential. if dana plans on holding over 30 cards per year they need fighters like these. james irvin was also a bad release he was a very solid gatekeeper with great power. marcus aurelio is another fighter who comes to mind, he has a very exciting style of bjj with capoeira. and yet they bring in guys like jesse forbes and gabe ruediger. go figure


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## Coosh (Sep 25, 2009)

*Fabricio Werdum himself said that the UFC terminated him:*

http://steverattlesnake.cliquezone....he-ufc-they-kind-of-used-me-and-threw-me-out/


“They kind of used me and threw me out. That UFC business is complicated. *It’s tough to swallow that they would terminate your contract after two nice wins just because you lost the last one,* regardless of how it happened. Business is business, it seems, and there’s no soft spots involved. That’s how it works – if they don’t like it, you’re out. Naturally, there’s a little resentment, but since we must be professional with everyone, I can’t take it personally. If that’s the road you choose, you could get in trouble so it’s best to stay professional.”


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

top 10 WORST ufc releases

1. Werdum- Dana White should hit himself over the head because of it. since leaving ufc is 3-0 with wins over mike kyle, antonio silva and fedor!

2. Robbie Lawler- very marketable and potentially top 10

3.Todd Duffee- fastest ko in ufc history and was beating the hell out of duffee before getting released

4. Efrain Escudero- the first tuf winner released (not counting tuf comeback) and there were more deserving releases (danzig, grove, pearson, wilks, amir) and he could be good for the mexican market

5 Marcus aurelio- entertaining style of bjj and capoeira and only lost to top fighters in close fights

6. James Irvin- exciting style great knockouts and could have been a good gatekeeper if didnt skeletor himself going to 185

7. Danillo Villefort- had 1 bad fight where he lost due to a cut and almost won by submission. recently defeated villasenor in a higher weightclass. his brother is a 6-0 prospect as well (yuri)

8. mayhem miller- entertaining style and could be top 20 and only lost to gsp in ufc

9. elliott marshall- went 3-1 in ufc and great bjj, though i believe he would get released eventually anyways

10. Mark Coleman- should have just kept him for a grudge match between him and tito, and the match would have probably been close too and more interesting then Forrest-Tito 2. they do tend to release big names because they suck (kimbo, toney etc) but should have kept him for 1 more fight, he did lose to couture.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

UFC86 said:


> top 10 WORST ufc releases
> 
> 1. Werdum- Dana White should hit himself over the head because of it. since leaving ufc is 3-0 with wins over mike kyle, antonio silva and fedor!
> 
> ...


1. I agree to let Werdum, at top 10 fighter at the time, made no sense. 
2. I don't see Lawler as bad let go. At the time he had lost 3 out of his last 4. Lawler was never going to reach any heights in the UFC. He is a brawler with limited ability
3. I agree Duffee's one loss definitely wasn't a reason to cut him. I think he shows a lot of promise
4. I don't think Escardero has a huge upside. He is a wrestler, who doesn't have that great of wrestling. I think the difference between him and the others is that he's not improving. He appears to be the same fighter he was when he entered the house.
5. I don't see any reason to keep aurellio
6. James Irvin just gets hurt too much. On top of that three losses in a row means you're gone most of the time.
7. Villefort may never have been on contract. Alot of guys that fight prelims are on a 1 fight contract. He lost and the UFC didn't sign him. I think after his win over Joey they should give him another look.
8. You have to remember when they fought the UFC was much different, and Miller wasn't the fighter then that he is now. I would definitely like to see him in the UFC though.
9. I have to say that this one doesn't make any sense. He's not a world beater by any means, but he did beat a very talented Brilz. 
10. Mark Coleman shouldn't be fighting anyone every again.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

UFC86 said:


> top 10 WORST ufc releases
> 
> 1. Werdum- Dana White should hit himself over the head because of it. *since leaving ufc is 3-0 with wins over mike kyle, antonio silva and fedor!*


See if your Dana White though that isn't a bad thing, do you have any idea how much that helps Dana White discredit the competition? Thing is Werdum doesn't have a following, honestly I think Dana thought Werdum was boring but a great fighter so he cut him the first time he had the slightest justification so that he went hunting, Werdum had noteriety to get big fights and the skill to win them all the while Dana gets to say "look he just lost to a guy who couldn't cut it in the UFC". I am 100% convinced that is why Werdum got caught.


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

rockybalboa25 said:


> 1. I agree to let Werdum, at top 10 fighter at the time, made no sense.
> 2. I don't see Lawler as bad let go. At the time he had lost 3 out of his last 4. Lawler was never going to reach any heights in the UFC. He is a brawler with limited ability
> 3. I agree Duffee's one loss definitely wasn't a reason to cut him. I think he shows a lot of promise
> 4. I don't think Escardero has a huge upside. He is a wrestler, who doesn't have that great of wrestling. I think the difference between him and the others is that he's not improving. He appears to be the same fighter he was when he entered the house.
> ...


the point of this thread is to look at who the ufc shouldnt have released in retrospect, meaning proven to be mistakes. obviously the vast majority of fighters being cut were coming off losses.

regarding marcus aurelio- he is a solid gatekeeper who can beat anybody not in top 10. his record is 20-8 all losses by decision and 5 split decision, so he could be 25-3 as well. he has great BJJ( watch his fight with Gomi and Ryan Roberts)
by the way he often gets confused with Marcus "lelo" aurelio who has a great capoeira ko


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I never got why they released Villefort. The guy is always exciting, and his fight with Lennox was really fun. He lost the fight due to a headbutt. Awful. 

Pretty shitty, because he's a really solid WW. 

I think Marcus will be back eventually. Someone will get injured and Maximus will take his place.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

UFC86 said:


> the point of this thread is to look at who the ufc shouldnt have released in retrospect, meaning proven to be mistakes. obviously the vast majority of fighters being cut were coming off losses.
> 
> regarding marcus aurelio- he is a solid gatekeeper who can beat anybody not in top 10. his record is 20-8 all losses by decision and 5 split decision, so he could be 25-3 as well. he has great BJJ( watch his fight with Gomi and Ryan Roberts)
> by the way he often gets confused with Marcus "lelo" aurelio who has a great capoeira ko


I think though that realeasing Lawler, Coleman, and Escadero weren't mistakes at all.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I understood why they released Lawler. Dude kept pulling out of fights.


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

i find it ironic how they release Rich Clementi but keep Guillard, release Neer but keep Danzig, release Efrain but keep Cole Miller, release Saunders but keep Marcus Davis, and release Marshall but keep Brilz


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

UFC86 said:


> i find it ironic how they release Rich Clementi but keep Guillard, release Neer but keep Danzig, release Efrain but keep Cole Miller, release Saunders but keep Marcus Davis, and release Marshall but keep Brilz


They actually did release Guillard. He was gone for over six months, fought for another promotion, and then came back. I agree Danzig should be gone. Cole Miller is 6-2, while Escudero is only 3-2. Also Dana White basically said that Efrain had gotten complacent. They keep Marcus only because he puts on exciting fights and has a huge Irish following. Marshall I don't really understand. He's not a elite guy, but he has a descent UFC record. Brilz got to stay around, because most people felt like he beat Lil Nog. If he also loses to Matyushenko at UFC 122, I think he might be gone too.


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

Matt Veach should also be mentioned. he trains with matt hughes and was 10-0 coming to the ufc. since being released by ufc after losing to champion frankie edgar and paul kelly, he won 3 straight very recently

other fighters are Ronys Torres and Jake Obrien. they were impressive outside the ufc and had tough fights in the ufc and i think they performed well.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

UFC86 said:


> do you have a source on that? sounds like a stupid move on mayhem's behalf. he could have been on the show and made it into the ufc,hes good for it hes young and got crazy personality, and the competition wasnt that high. instead he will be fighting in strikeforce where he is not likely to be the champion, and if youre not champion youre chances of landing in ufc decrease tremendously


Miller is his own man , fighting in the UFC means your Dana's man unless your name is Brock , George , Randy or Chuck.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, plus I'm not sure if his entrances would be as ellaborate in the UFC. That is a big downside to the UFC, not stage. You walk in and that's it!


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I prefer a simple walk-in, rather than a stage.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well that's what makes Strikeforce, DREAM and Sengoku entertaining. They go with both. Not to mention DREAM and Sengoku have those big introductions before any of the fights!:thumbsup:


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

kantowrestler said:


> Well that's what makes Strikeforce, DREAM and Sengoku entertaining. They go with both. Not to mention DREAM and Sengoku have those big introductions before any of the fights!:thumbsup:


People tune in for fights, who cares how they walk in. If you're interested in that stuff may I recommend pro wrestling. Fighters that have to use an entrance to gain attention usually aren't that good. Prince Naseem Hamed anyone?


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> Yeah, plus I'm not sure if his entrances would be as ellaborate in the UFC. That is a big downside to the UFC, not stage. You walk in and that's it!


you have obviously missed many of the japanese fighters enterances, where Rogan has made comments about japanese people.... like Mishima, Nakamura and Gono..... let alone the same Sexyama enterance he has had in japan he still uses today in UFC.....


Kanto.... please.... do some research, dont just make stupid comments and add smiley faces..... i dont think you have ever made any comment that made alot of sense ever! :thumbsdown:


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

some of the better releases have to be:
rich clementi (lost 3 fights since being released)
Akihiro Gono (got knocked out by Hornbuckle)
Josh Neer (lost to Alvarez)
Ryo Chonan (just lost to some non name korean)
Jason Day (lost 2/3 fights)
Thales Leites (got submitted by Matt Horwich)
Travis Lutter (got knocked out by Natal)
Brock Larson (lost to Saffiedine)
Hermes Franca (lost twice to Eric Wiseley)
Jay Silva (was talking trash and got knocked out in 6sec)
Yoshiyuki Yoshida (just cant win a fight)
brad blackburn (lost to hornbuckle)
Paul Buentello (knocked out by roid free tim sylvia)
keith jardine (lost to middleweight trevor prangley)


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## BondageGuy (Oct 9, 2010)

hendo is the worst release imo


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

BondageGuy said:


> hendo is the worst release imo


i disagree with this. hendo was a top middleweight contender similar to marquardt though with better wrestling and similar power in his striking. he chose to sign with strikeforce and got manhandled by jake shields who went to ufc.henderson is too old to be an asset and could be considered damaged goods. nonetheless he is STILL a great fighter and should be top 10, but not worth the price.


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## BondageGuy (Oct 9, 2010)

UFC86 said:


> i disagree with this. hendo was a top middleweight contender similar to marquardt though with better wrestling and similar power in his striking. he chose to sign with strikeforce and got manhandled by jake shields who went to ufc.henderson is too old to be an asset and could be considered damaged goods. nonetheless he is STILL a great fighter and should be top 10, but not worth the price.


but hendo is awesome 

and shields beat a hurt and no cardio version of hendo, and got beaten down violently by hendo until he gassed.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

BondageGuy said:


> but hendo is awesome
> 
> and shields beat a hurt and no cardio version of hendo, and got beaten down violently by hendo until he gassed.


If Hendo is so awesome name a top 10 fighter that he has beaten since PRIDE.


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## TheGreg (Apr 29, 2007)

Rich Franklin?


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## BondageGuy (Oct 9, 2010)

rockybalboa25 said:


> If Hendo is so awesome name a top 10 fighter that he has beaten since PRIDE.


all the guys he beat since pride have been top 10 at the time they fought him ;D even bisping was #10 when they fought


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

BondageGuy said:


> all the guys he beat since pride have been top 10 at the time they fought him ;D even bisping was #10 when they fought


No way. Bisping has never been rated in the top 10, and neither has Palhares. Franklin only had one fight at LHW at the time of the Henderson fight and was also unranked.


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## BondageGuy (Oct 9, 2010)

rockybalboa25 said:


> No way. Bisping has never been rated in the top 10, and neither has Palhares. Franklin only had one fight at LHW at the time of the Henderson fight and was also unranked.


nay sir, bisping wad ranked #10 mw after he defeated leben.

and palhares was like top 8 before he lost to hendo. and franklin has been top 10 since his move to lhw, hes still like number 8 atm.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

BondageGuy said:


> nay sir, bisping wad ranked #10 mw after he defeated leben.
> 
> and palhares was like top 8 before he lost to hendo. and franklin has been top 10 since his move to lhw, hes still like number 8 atm.


Ranked by who. Definitely not by mmaweekly or sherdog.


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

UFC86 said:


> some of the better releases have to be:
> rich clementi (lost 3 fights since being released)
> Akihiro Gono (got knocked out by Hornbuckle)
> Josh Neer (lost to Alvarez)
> ...


eh i liked the Dean of Mean and thought he would make a great gate keeper tell he trained more and went for a shot, he beat some big names and i think deserved to stay


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

M_D said:


> eh i liked the Dean of Mean and thought he would make a great gate keeper tell he trained more and went for a shot, he beat some big names and i think deserved to stay


4 losses in a row(now 5 at shark fights) was always gonna make it hard for him to stay, his chin has gone to crap, hes got a lidell chin but much earlier in his career than chuck


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

another bad released in Gabriel Gonzaga.

he is the first non-middleweight title challenger to be released in the last few years. he was on a 2 fight losing streaks but he was given strikers and he thought he was k-1 level ever since the knockout of Mirko Cro Cop.

he was doing pretty well against Schaub too he lasted the whole fight, and had him in RNC in the end of the 3rd but needed more time to finish and even thought he won raising his hands, but time ran out.

should have been given grapplers instead like Mir or Nelson

i would put gerald harris as the worst


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