# Gsp ***spoilers***



## skinnyBIGGS (Jul 2, 2010)

k was anyone else BORED watching the fight??? Sure GSP has game plans but none of them consist of a take him out attitude. C;eary KOS wasnt able to hang with him yet GSP allowed a fight that should've ended in the 2nd or later 3rd but dragged on to a 5round decision.....KOS had only one eye and GSP still couldnt put him away....


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

I enjoyed the fight but I enjoyed Silva/Leites, Silva/Maia, and GSP/Hardy as well. Seeing a guy just get completely shut down and tooled is fun when you know that guy is also very skilled.


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

This isn't meant to be a personal attack, but did you look at the other frew hundred post and threads that read this way... really no reason for a brand new thread.


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## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

I was really ready to give GSP props for standing and trading tonight until that last takedown/holdown fully revealed that GSP never had any intention of finishing the fight.

Also Rogan's bias announcing came out again last night. I don't like either guy but Rogan constantly complains about Bisping not setting down on his punches, but not a mention last night when GSP was doing the exact same thing. Instead he praises GSP for being able to close the gap so fast.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

leifdawg said:


> I was really ready to give GSP props for standing and trading tonight until that last takedown/holdown fully revealed that GSP never had any intention of finishing the fight.
> 
> Also Rogan's bias announcing came out again last night. I don't like either guy but Rogan constantly complains about Bisping not setting down on his punches, but not a mention last night when GSP was doing the exact same thing. Instead he praises GSP for being able to close the gap so fast.


GSP would KO Bisping with his superman jab.


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## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

Bisping ate some solid shots from Akiyama, I don't see GSP KO'ing him. GSP would absolutely tool him for 3 or 5 rounds but I doubt he would finish him.


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## Yojimbo (Oct 25, 2009)

Yes, the unfortunate part of GSP's game is that he really doesn't posses a killer instinct. He's not a finisher. I hope He will some day find his inner savage. When this happens he will be the most dominant and entertaining fighter of all time. Until then he can get in line behind Anderson.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

How many threads of this do we honestly need?

We know GSP can't finish fights anymore. Blame Matt Serra.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Wasn't bored at all. Was actually a very exciting fight for me and my friends. Had most of us cheering and jeering every time a punch was landed. 

When Kos eye swelled up it really got everyone going.

Sometimes it really is about who is fighting that makes it exciting. 

For my guests this is what they came to see. 

I love seeing GSP evolve and improve, trying new ways to dominate his opponents completely. 

People will always critisize him for not taking huge risks but I really enjoy watching the complete domination and display of skill. And who the hell can blame him? What smart fighter would risk their belt to impress morons that only came to see a brawl?


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

You know what, even if GSP isn't a closer I still love to watch the man fight. As far as I'm concerned the man has nothing to be ashamed of performance wise! A fight doesn't need a big finish for it to be good or exciting! 

I'll end this post with a question for all you people complaining about GSP not being able to finish? Who in the WW division can beat and finish guys like Josh Koscheck, BJ Penn, Thiago Alves, and John Fitch let alone finishing them? While your answering that question keep in mind why some of these people received a title shot against GSP in the first place!


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## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

but kos had one eye and was beat down mentally. if gsp would throw combinations, he could have finished him!

15 straight rounds of decisions. that's 5 regular fights worth of decisions.


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## Johnni G (Dec 2, 2009)

Who cares.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

footodors said:


> but kos had one eye and was beat down mentally. if gsp would throw combinations, he could have finished him!
> 
> 15 straight rounds of decisions. that's 5 regular fights worth of decisions.


You sure about that?

Its easy to watch a fight and say "Tch, he could have finished him if he just did this or if he did that!" Keep in mind, watching a fight and actually being in one are two different experiences.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Perfect gameplan, perfect execution and it was made clear to me that the jab is the worst punch ever to throw in a fight if you have to knock somebody out. I really can't put into words what I'm feeling right now. Yeah, he's great and all, but... man, during the second round I turned on my Playstation and played some FIFA.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Please close this thread somebody! There are too much threads about the exact same topic.


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

Honestly if this were a boxing match I think the referee would have stopped it because Koscheck was not being competitive at all and he was just taking an unnecessary beating. As far as I'm concerned that fight was finished way before the bell rang and if there was no time limits GSP obviously would have knocked him out eventually.
Also, are you guys forgetting that GSP finished BJ PENN?! what's all this nonsense about him not being a finisher since matt Serra?


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## Breadfan (Jan 3, 2008)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> GSP finished BJ PENN?! what's all this nonsense about him not being a finisher since matt Serra?


You call that a finish? Where someone gets so tired they can't continue and then accused him of cheating?

I dunno about that one...


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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

GSP proved he is still the best of the best last night. Koscheck was his toughest opponent and even made the wrestling and clinch game competitive. GSP still dominated. No he did not get the KO and yes he possibly could have if he was a more aggressive fighter. I could see that GSP was trying his best to finish and be the aggressor...without putting himself in danger. Even when there was only 10 seconds left in the fight GSP would not abandon his technique and leave himself open. He was being as aggressive as he could be, while still not giving Koscheck even a punchers chance.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

I've lost interest in GSP after this fight. He won't move to 185 and there is no one left at 170. This is the first fight where I don't think GSP ever actually tried to finish the fight. Against Hardy just about anyone else would have tapped, others would have been KO'd in the Fitch fight and GSP was hurt against Thiago. But last night GSP jabbed his way to a decision, even when Kos was clearly broken and wanted the fight to be over Georges didn't throw combos and move forward just more safe jabs. 

IHMO Kos was right, GSP was afraid of getting tagged again so he used as safe a stand up as possible. Just jab Kos into submission. Kos couldn't take the pain of putting ice on his eye, he couldn't see after the first and GSP just kept throwing a jab. Pretty sure you could count the combos on one hand. And it's not like GSP wasn't landing at will, he outclassed Kos badly. But for the first time I really felt that GSP played it safe and was content to hear the judges decision.


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## Pound&Mound (Dec 10, 2007)

Bonnar426 said:


> You sure about that?
> 
> Its easy to watch a fight and say "Tch, he could have finished him if he just did this or if he did that!" Keep in mind, watching a fight and actually being in one are two different experiences.


Well said.


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## TheReturn (Sep 26, 2010)

Ape City said:


> Wasn't bored at all. Was actually a very exciting fight for me and my friends. Had most of us cheering and jeering every time a punch was landed.
> 
> When Kos eye swelled up it really got everyone going.
> 
> ...


agreed


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

We should just make a separate forum for the GSP haters.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Breadfan said:


> You call that a finish? Where someone gets so tired they can't continue and then accused him of cheating?
> 
> I dunno about that one...


BJ didn't quit because he was tired. BJ's corner threw in the towel because BJ had taken such a ridiculous beating he probably didn't even know where he was. 

If anything that is more impressive than taking a risk by getting flashy and hoping a punch will land perfectly. 

Just beat your opponent down until you crush their will and decimate their self confidence.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

It's funny how people are bitching about GSP not finishing another fight.

Perhaps the guys he fights should try and finish him as well?


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

I'll be the first to call GSP out for being conservative and boring, but last night was far from that. He schooled Kos the entire fight, it was brilliant.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Put me in the decision or not I love watching GSP camp.

He might not "finish" opponents but he destroys their will which is much more impressive imo. All it takes is a lucky punch to "finish" a fight. It takes amazing skill and determination to destroy a fighter to the point where they are waiting for the fight to end. That is what GSP did last night, Koscheck knew he was losing but wouldn't even try for a flash KO because he was physically and mentally beaten. He was just trying to put on a bit of a show and survive the last 2 rounds.


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## Rastaman (Feb 25, 2010)

GSP proved that he is the best WW on the planet without a doubt.

that being said, everybody at the bar collectively took a nap during that fight, including me.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Rastaman said:


> GSP proved that he is the best WW on the planet without a doubt.
> 
> that being said, everybody at the bar collectively took a nap during that fight, including me.


You need to look for a different sport to follow then, you obviously don't enjoy mma...


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Here we go again - and BTW, SPOILER-tags? Why?


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Rastaman said:


> GSP proved that he is the best WW on the planet without a doubt.
> 
> that being said, everybody at the bar collectively took a nap during that fight, including me.


How could you fall asleep during this fight? It was still a fist fight and the KO could've happened any second. :confused05:


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

The thing is, GSP now has a stigma - that he is boring. Unfortunately, GSP cannot have an exciting 5 round fight - even if he is the one dominating for 25mins - because whenever someone hears his name they think "oh god, he won't finish, here we go for another borefest". I think it's quite ridiculous and very n00bish.


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## skinnyBIGGS (Jul 2, 2010)

Indestructibl3 said:


> The thing is, GSP now has a stigma - that he is boring. Unfortunately, GSP cannot have an exciting 5 round fight - even if he is the one dominating for 25mins - because whenever someone hears his name they think "oh god, he won't finish, here we go for another borefest". I think it's quite ridiculous and very n00bish.


i think his lack luster effort to capitalize in a sport that flourishes on opportunity's is ridiculous and very n00bish :confused02:


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## Yojimbo (Oct 25, 2009)

*Is GSP Missing a Finish Instinct?*

What do you think? For me the answer is pretty clear he doesn't have that instinct to get guys out of there. Maybe he doesn't want to hurt people or maybe it's something else. Some fighters have it in abundance (Penn) and I guess some don't have it at all (GSP). 

Also I'm curious how this obvious hole in his game does not tarnish his standings. I'll agree that there is no more talented or even dominant fighter in any weight class (other than Anderson Silva). However, your trapped in a cage with an animal trained to hurt you. Much better to get him out of there, than to spend 25 minutes dodging and pop-shooting him. He's going to eventually or again lose because he is resigned to go the distance and win on points.


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## astrallite (Mar 14, 2010)

GSP isn't stalling, he's fighting but just not finishing. The fact that he can tool somebody for 25 straight minutes is impressive in itself.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

GSP has finished the fight in 57% of his wins. 
Compare that to Mayweather (59%) and Pacquiao (64%) the two most respected boxers in the world. If GSP's legacy gets effected surely Pacman and Mayweather's should too then?


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Yojimbo said:


> What do you think? For me the answer is pretty clear he doesn't have that instinct to get guys out of there. Maybe he doesn't want to hurt people or maybe it's something else. Some fighters have it in abundance (Penn) and I guess some don't have it at all (GSP).
> 
> Also I'm curious how this obvious hole in his game does not tarnish his standings. I'll agree that there is no more talented or even dominant fighter in any weight class (other than Anderson Silva). However, your trapped in a cage with an animal trained to hurt you. Much better to get him out of there, than to spend 25 minutes dodging and pop-shooting him. He's going to eventually or again lose because he is resigned to go the distance and win on points.


I wouldn't really call it a hole, and I'd say likewise that not going balls to the wall when he smells blood is going to keep his career nice and safe. Fully committing to a sub or dashing with a finishing flurry can both result in exactly the opposite happening.


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

To me, GSP's "lack of a killer instinct" (despite the fact that he's finished the majority of his wins) does not tarnish his legacy in the least bit. 
What's the difference between making somebody tap out and dominating them for a UD? Winning is winning, and isnt that the point of a sport?

It's not like he isnt completely dominating and outclassing his opponents, it's not like he isnt trying to finish fights (see his multiple near-submission attempts against Hardy), and it's not like he never finishes anyone a la Jon Fitch. 

The guy is a sstraight animal who dominates everyone and the fact that he's not perfect and can't knock out every single great fighter in the world doesnt affect my opinion of him in the least bit. People are just nitpicking for the sake of being critical.


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

After the hardy fight I dunno how anyone could bitch about GSP not finishing fights. The dude almost finished the fight twice. GSP doesn't over commit and dictates the fight in his favor, and it's why he takes little damage and wins his fights. If he won every fight via decision, went undefeated in the UFC, and no one ever had an answer for him would it affect his legacy? Hell no, the man went undefeated and fought til every championship round until he retired, that's a freaking ridiculous feat. 

People will always find something to bitch about. Take Anderson Silva, he tools Forrest Griffin, a former LHW champ...then he fights Maia and people talk shit about how he sucks and gassed and all this BS...then he fights injured for you ungrateful fucks, gets beat up for 4 and a half rounds and still finds a way to win and people talk shit about how he's been exposed. Have a little respect jeez.


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## Yojimbo (Oct 25, 2009)

HexRei said:


> I wouldn't really call it a hole, and I'd say likewise that not going balls to the wall when he smells blood is going to keep his career nice and safe. Fully committing to a sub or dashing with a finishing flurry can both result in exactly the opposite happening.


Certainly there are plenty examples of fighters being over conifident and wreckless. When we look at those fighter who are considered Hall of Fame caliber and and then take a closer look at those of them that are consistent finishers we see fighters who have trained themselves to turn it on when they sense they have an advantage. GSP doesn't do this. In my opinion this is a flaw and does affect his ranking.


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## TheReturn (Sep 26, 2010)

actually you take more of a risk by trying too hard to finish


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## Yojimbo (Oct 25, 2009)

TheReturn said:


> actually you take more of a risk by trying too hard to finish


Yes. I agree. But when you are outclassing all you opponents by such a huge margin it seems an unnecessary risk to stay in the cage with another fighter. Much better to get him out of there. Sure when two guys with equal or close to equal abilities are competing it would be smart to play it safe. However that's not the case with George. It's always the same GSP clinic. 
Kos seemed very concerned with his smashed face but he was never really close to being stopped. Kos was looking for that one big lucky punch the whole time.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

You question is flawed.

Georges St. Pierre has consistently faced the best competition of any UFC champion and, arguably, the best competition of any combat sport champion in the world. 

He hasn't had an easy fight in years, and yet he has been dominant. In saying that he "doesn't finish fights", who, exactly, are you comparing him to?


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## Fade (Dec 12, 2010)

I may sound like a broken record, but as one of the Top 3 fighters in the world, I think he should easily be finishing along with Silva and Aldo. Being risky is one of the things that make these guys the best fighters in the world.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Fade said:


> I may sound like a broken record, but as one of the Top 3 fighters in the world, I think he should easily be finishing along with Silva and Aldo. Being risky is one of the things that make these guys the best fighters in the world.


Silva's a dominant champion, but his opponents haven't been on par with St. Pierre's. Aldo's haven't even been in the same league.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

I voted yes, if your winning the fight by a large margin a finish should be easy. Yes there is a risk for going in for the kill, but there is also a risk by taking your foot off the gas and go easy. For you guys who don't see a problem you need to admit gsp does not have knock out power or is scared to take risk. Stop saying he is fighting smart because u clown on Anderson silva for dancing around or when he does not finish. In his mind he is fighting smart as he is not getting hurt. Gsp is great if ur beating a guy that badly you should beable to finish him.


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## Yojimbo (Oct 25, 2009)

vandalian said:


> Georges St. Pierre has consistently faced the best competition of any UFC champion and, arguably, the best competition of any combat sport champion in the world.


Ok, prove it. It's funny how people say this like it's fact. "WW are the best", heard it. Don't believe it.


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## Fade (Dec 12, 2010)

vandalian said:


> Silva's a dominant champion, but his opponents haven't been on par with St. Pierre's. Aldo's haven't even been in the same league.


Rich Franklin, a legend,
Dan Henderson, 
complete destruction of Forrest Griffin.
Maybe he hasn't fought as much people who could test him as GSP, but whenever he has, he showed complete control and dominated everytime.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Yojimbo said:


> Ok, prove it. It's funny how people say this like it's fact. "WW are the best", heard it. Don't believe it.


I'm not saying welterweights are the best. I'm saying GSP's opponents during his title reign have consistently been better than those of Silva. I don't see how that isn't obvious.

I'm not sure how Aldo enters the discussion at all. He has exactly two title defences. It's not even close to a fair comparison.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Yojimbo said:


> Ok, prove it. It's funny how people say this like it's fact. "WW are the best", heard it. Don't believe it.


 That isn't the point. The point is GSP has consitently fought guys in the top 10 at 170lbs for the past 3 or 4 years. I mean Dave Strasser is the last guy GSP fought who isn't a really well known successful fighter. You can't compare him to the likes of Jon Jones or other up and coming fighters cos the caliber of opponent GSP is facing every time he fights is so far above. He fights the no 2,3,4 or 5 best guy in the world at 170lbs EVERY TIME he fights ffs!

If you compare him to Anderson Silva you have to consider that a lot of the best MWs in the world were fighting in Pride or other organisations so within their weight classes GSP has faced tough competition.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Yes, he just destroys people for the hell of it. Do we need any more stupid topics on this subject?



> However, your trapped in a cage with an animal trained to hurt you. Much better to get him out of there, than to spend 25 minutes dodging and pop-shooting him.


Why? If this was a real fight Koscheck would have given up and cried in the corner or else been finished eventually...

I hate people that blame GSP, Silva etc for being the best fighters in the world... Its not their fault everyone else is shit.

Edit: And ftr yes I am cranky right now...


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## Yojimbo (Oct 25, 2009)

vandalian said:


> I'm not saying welterweights are the best. I'm saying GSP's opponents during his title reign have consistently been better than those of Silva. I don't see how that isn't obvious.
> 
> I'm not sure how Aldo enters the discussion at all. He has exactly two title defences. It's not even close to a fair comparison.


GSP and Silva's Last five opponents.

GSP; Kos, Hardy, Alves, Penn and Fitch

Anderson; Sonnen, Maia, Forest (Honorable Mention "moving up a weight class"), Thales and Cote. 

I really don't see any glaring discrepancy here.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

HexRei said:


> I wouldn't really call it a hole, and I'd say likewise that not going balls to the wall when he smells blood is going to keep his career nice and safe. Fully committing to a sub or dashing with a finishing flurry can both result in exactly the opposite happening.


QFMFT


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

GSP has fought some of the toughest opponents since his very first UFC fight when he fought Karo Parisyan, not the mental midget Karo of today but the one who was thought to be in line for a title shot and one of the top WW at the time, and dominated him when he was just supposed to be a fodder fight for Parisyan. After beating Heiron he was thrown against Hughes for the title in just his 3rd UFC fight. After that he steamrolled 2 top WWs at the time Trigg and Sherk after beating Mayhem Miller before beating BJ(after being poked in the eye and getting his nose broken in the 1st round) and Hughes in the title rematch. Minus the Serra upset he rebounded against Kos and has since then fought for the title or interim title and won each time 7 straight times- with 3 stoppages.​ 
He's fought the top of the food chain since his first UFC fight and hasn't lost a round since the 1st round of the 1st Kos fight. Fitch looked like a hammer had been taken to his face and GSP said himself after the Hardy fight he didn't want to break Dan's arm in the 1st round.​ 
The fact is and this should be no shock to anyone is that GSP does not possess pure KO power- never has and probably never will. He hasn't put anyone to sleep like Chuck in his heyday ever even when getting TKO wins. He can knock people senseless like he did to Hughes, Heiron, Sherk with elbows, Fitch with repeated shots, GnP with elbows and knees like he did to Serra and BJ both in the 2nd fight with them.​ 
He dominates fights in the most complete ways possible without the Iceman type bedtime stories and can still sub most fighters. He's not a KO artist- never has been and probably never will be but even minus that he is one of the top 3 fighters on this earth because he is the most complete well rounded fighter, that uses the best gameplans, uses his strengths to expose his opponents weaknesses and never tires because of cardio issues. Minus the KO power he doesn't have many flaws at all and the ones he does he covers them with his other talents.​


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## Rastaman (Feb 25, 2010)

Rauno said:


> How could you fall asleep during this fight? It was still a fist fight and the KO could've happened any second. :confused05:


GSP wasn't looking for the KO at all during that fight, I think he was just confident that Koscheck wasn't going to take him down (and that after the 2nd round when Koscheck's eye was all messed up he was confident that his striking was essentially negated). After realizing these two things he basically fought a conservative, but dominant fight. People were leaving the bar in the 4th round, and I don't blame them because they are obviously way casual fans that weren't looking to see a striking pseudo-clinic they were looking to see GSP finish a fight for once since Greasegate a few a couple years back. When I say "fall asleep" I don't mean it literally, obviously. But watching 25 minutes of a fighter continuously jabbing is a little bit of a mood killer. Would I ever consider watching the fight again or buying a PPV w/ GSP headlining it? Never, because GSP has decided to prove that he's the most well rounded fighter in MMA instead of prove that he's capable of finishing an opponent. You don't think he could have finished Koscheck with one eye swollen shut? Of course he could, but that isn't who GSP is anymore it seems. I like the guy,



420atalon said:


> You need to look for a different sport to follow then, you obviously don't enjoy mma...


I definitely do enjoy MMA but when all of the fights proceeding the main event are fun to watch and the last one is 25 minutes of essentially the same round over and over again isn't exactly what people go to a bar for or watch MMA for. GSP cemented his legacy as the world's most well rounded fighter (maybe of all time), which is exciting in its own right, but he failed to prove that he's capable of doing what Paulo Thiago, the striking guru :sarcastic12:, did for god sakes. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I wish I hadn't seen the fight, I'm just saying that after the first or second round when he injured Koscheck's eye I was thinking to myself "Wow, GSP is going to actually finish a fight? Nice." And then he just stopped going for the kill and proceeded to jab Koscheck to death.


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

This thread = :sarcastic07:



Walker said:


> GSP has fought some of the toughest opponents since his very first UFC fight when he fought Karo Parisyan, not the mental midget Karo of today but the one who was thought to be in line for a title shot and one of the top WW at the time, and dominated him when he was just supposed to be a fodder fight for Parisyan. After beating Heiron he was thrown against Hughes for the title in just his 3rd UFC fight. After that he steamrolled 2 top WWs at the time Trigg and Sherk after beating Mayhem Miller before beating BJ(after being poked in the eye and getting his nose broken in the 1st round) and Hughes in the title rematch. Minus the Serra upset he rebounded against Kos and has since then fought for the title or interim title and won each time 7 straight times- with 3 stoppages.​
> He's fought the top of the food chain since his first UFC fight and hasn't lost a round since the 1st round of the 1st Kos fight. Fitch looked like a hammer had been taken to his face and GSP said himself after the Hardy fight he didn't want to break Dan's arm in the 1st round.​
> The fact is and this should be no shock to anyone is that GSP does not possess pure KO power- never has and probably never will. He hasn't put anyone to sleep like Chuck in his heyday ever even when getting TKO wins. He can knock people senseless like he did to Hughes, Heiron, Sherk with elbows, Fitch with repeated shots, GnP with elbows and knees like he did to Serra and BJ both in the 2nd fight with them.​
> He dominates fights in the most complete ways possible without the Iceman type bedtime stories and can still sub most fighters. He's not a KO artist- never has been and probably never will be but even minus that he is one of the top 3 fighters on this earth because he is the most complete well rounded fighter, that uses the best gameplans, uses his strengths to expose his opponents weaknesses and never tires because of cardio issues. Minus the KO power he doesn't have many flaws at all and the ones he does he covers them with his other talents.​


Listen to this man, he knows his shit.


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## SpecC (Nov 18, 2007)

Also when it comes to top level competition vs top level competition, you probably aren't going to get too many finishes because everyone is good enough to at least stay in the fight.


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

1) GSP is more focused on WINNING and taking as little damage as possible (key to having a long career).
2) GSP isn’t fighting cans


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## Yojimbo (Oct 25, 2009)

Here's an analogy that I believe surmises my perspective of GSP quite well. Let consider modern handguns. OK, a handgun is considered a close quarters weapon, most effective within 10 meters. If choosing a particular caliber to go with I'm gonna take the one that is more likely to put my enemy down. I'm not interested in a gun that doesn't posses guaranteed stopping power. I'm gonna take the 45 over the 22 any day. 

GSP would be a much better fighter and have more claim to undisputed P4P if he was able to finish fights.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Yojimbo said:


> GSP and Silva's Last five opponents.
> 
> GSP; Kos, Hardy, Alves, Penn and Fitch
> 
> ...


GSP has had the harder run


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

Yojimbo said:


> Here's an analogy that I believe surmises my perspective of GSP quite well. Let consider modern handguns. OK, a handgun is considered a close quarters weapon, most effective within 10 meters. If choosing a particular caliber to go with I'm gonna take the one that is more likely to put my enemy down. I'm not interested in a gun that doesn't posses guaranteed stopping power. I'm gonna take the 45 over the 22 any day.
> 
> GSP would be a much better fighter and have more claim to undisputed P4P if he was able to finish fights.


Your analogy sucks.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Yojimbo said:


> GSP and Silva's Last five opponents.
> 
> GSP; Kos *(been a top 10 WW for nearly 3 years)*, Hardy *(good stand and bang guy - admitedly not on the level of the other 4)*, Alves *(arguably the best Muay Thai in MMA)*, Penn *(former top 5 P4P, TKOd)* and Fitch *(best wrestling in MMA, insane sub defense)
> *
> ...


fixed :thumb02:


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Yojimbo said:


> Here's an analogy that I believe surmises my perspective of GSP quite well. Let consider modern handguns. OK, a handgun is considered a close quarters weapon, most effective within 10 meters. If choosing a particular caliber to go with I'm gonna take the one that is more likely to put my enemy down. I'm not interested in a gun that doesn't posses guaranteed stopping power. I'm gonna take the 45 over the 22 any day.
> 
> GSP would be a much better fighter and have more claim to undisputed P4P if he was able to finish fights.


Using your analogy if you can't aim the gun or handle it properly having the better weapon still does jack-shit unless you know how to use it the most effect way to take advantage of it.

GSP uses his weapons better than almost all fighters and can switch to different ones depending on which one would be most effective in that scenario.


As to the undisputed p4p fighter it's a fantasy title that can never be truly claimed and no one will ever agree as to who holds that mythical "title". I've never gotten into the whole "best p4p fighter" because it's pure fantasy and conjecture and can never be solved with any clear and fair resolution.​


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## Yojimbo (Oct 25, 2009)

Walker said:


> As to the undisputed p4p fighter it's a fantasy title that can never be truly claimed and no one will ever agree as to who holds that mythical "title". I've never gotten into the whole "best p4p fighter" because it's pure fantasy and conjecture and can never be solved with any clear and fair resolution.​


Here's a little secret. Santas Claus doesn't really exist and all rankings are conjecture.

Also, I'm just as accurate with the 22 as the 45 however your not getting up when I hit you with the 45. Anderson has both guns chambered and ready GSP only carries the 22.


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## cisco2403 (Apr 12, 2010)

vandalian said:


> You question is flawed.
> 
> Georges St. Pierre has consistently faced the best competition of any UFC champion and, arguably, the best competition of any combat sport champion in the world.
> 
> He hasn't had an easy fight in years, and yet he has been dominant. In saying that he "doesn't finish fights", who, exactly, are you comparing him to?


I don't agree that GSP's legacy is tarnished but I don't agree with GSP having harder competition than Silva either. Silva has faced the cream of the crop at Middleweight as well and finished most of them unless he screws around. He has also fought in a higher weight class and completely outclassed those guys as well, one of them being a former LHW champ. IMO, no question, Silva has had harder competition.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Regardless of their records or opponents i can't see how anyone can say Anderson is a better mixed martial artist than GSP. GSP is the closest to a complete Mixed martial artist you can get - world class wrestling, world class striking and world class BJJ. Anderson is a brutal striker and has decent Jitz and may well be a more effective fighter but in terms of being "the complete mixed martial artist" he is miles behind GSP.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Yojimbo said:


> Here's a little secret. Santas Claus doesn't really exist and all rankings are conjecture.
> 
> Also, I'm just as accurate with the 22 as the 45 however your not getting up when I hit you with the 45. Anderson has both guns chambered and ready GSP only carries the 22.


First off thanks for ruining Christmas for me, next you'll tell me the tooth fairy was only my parents. 

And that's really neat you have good accuracy but your argument still sucks.​


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

What does Finland have to due with GSP he is from CANADA :dunno:


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## Yojimbo (Oct 25, 2009)

Walker said:


> First off thanks for ruining Christmas for me, next you'll tell me the tooth fairy was only my parents.
> 
> And that's really neat you have good accuracy but your argument still sucks.​


Nice rebuttal. Better to not say anything than to stick your tongue out like a child. 

No. Your argument sucks. I'm telling.


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## Avery (Dec 15, 2009)

is this thread a joke? 

i sure hope so


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

There's to many keyboard warriors here who have no idea what It's like to be In a fight. Some of you make It sound like "KO" someone Is as easy as making a cup of coffee.

Silva, the best striker In the sport has, what, 1 KO In his last 5 fights?. And that was against a slow, telegraph punching Forrest Griffin.

Here's one reason why GSP hasnt finished a fight since...Serra?
His opponents all go into survive mode, he beats them at everything and all they start doing after the second round Is to defend.
And at this level of professional fighting, they're pretty good at defending.
Example: After round 3 Kos had to go for a finish If he wanted the helt, but he didnt, he hardly threw a single punch just kept defending. No takedowns, nothing but a wild haymaker once or twice a round. 

Hardy, same deal. He started with that grin but as soon as he almost had his arm ripped off he went into survival mode. Or hold on for dear life mode.

Alves, taken down and beat up. Got so scared he hardly threw a single leg kick after the 2nd round and was beat up standing because he got more concerned about defending that takedown.

BJ, well he quit

When you fight someone who tucks that chin away and hides behind his hands that "KO" Is a hell of alot harder to achieve.


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## Yojimbo (Oct 25, 2009)

Vale_Tudo said:


> There's to many keyboard warriors here who have no idea what It's like to be In a fight. Some of you make It sound like "KO" someone Is as easy as making a cup of coffee.
> 
> Silva, the best striker In the sport has, what, 1 KO In his last 5 fights?. And that was against a slow, telegraph punching Forrest Griffin.
> 
> ...


Ok, i see this. However, this dynamic I thinlk is even more true with Anderson than with George. With the exception of Chael, forest and Irving all other fighters since Henderson have been super conservative and avoiding Anderson in the cage.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

He doesn't lack the instinct he lacks the style, skills, and attributes that would get him finishes often over great competition. Your bjj needs to be great to get subs at the level he is fighting unless you rock your opponent badly, he doesn't have the long limbs and upper body strength to do huge damage with gnp, and his striking style isn't based around power strikes. Everyone he is fighting knows what they are doing also he isn't fighting bums in the minors he is fighting top ten WWs who know how to mitigate and avoid damage and submissions. 

I'll also say this which I have said in defense of Andy as well. No one can finish a fight whenever they want at this level that is stupid and ignorant. GSP was punching Kos hard with crosses and hooks Kos just didn't go out. I don't want Andy and GSP to fight like Matt Riddle and Leonard Garcia stop acting like they should.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Rastaman said:


> I definitely do enjoy MMA but when all of the fights proceeding the main event are fun to watch and the last one is 25 minutes of essentially the same round over and over again isn't exactly what people go to a bar for or watch MMA for. GSP cemented his legacy as the world's most well rounded fighter (maybe of all time), which is exciting in its own right, but he failed to prove that he's capable of doing what Paulo Thiago, the striking guru :sarcastic12:, did for god sakes. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I wish I hadn't seen the fight, I'm just saying that after the first or second round when he injured Koscheck's eye I was thinking to myself "Wow, GSP is going to actually finish a fight? Nice." And then he just stopped going for the kill and proceeded to jab Koscheck to death.


Don't bother with that guy. He's just a troll, either that or just stupid.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

I enjoyed the domination. He worked the jab like a champ.


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## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

ugh... seeing threads like this makes me wonder why I come to this forum. I love how thoughtful most of the members are, but is this really even a necessary thread? 

The poll in itself is a loaded question. Just by answering you're saying GSP doesn't finish fights.

Lets look at his fights in the UFC:

9 Stoppages, and 8 decisions. Is this really that terrible? More than half of his fights have been stopped. Do we really need threads that pose the question "does a decision win hurt his legacy?" Only to a ******* idiot who can't be entertained unless someone is getting ko'd or beaten into submission. This win was a skillful display of technique. 

Go troll elsewhere you retard.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

the only thing I think matters is that it showed GSP should not be thrown at Anderson Silva. GSP is great but standing in there with Koscheck he really looks like he is just built for WW. No matter how good Frankie Edgar gets, it doesn't matter if he is the #1 p4p in the world he will always be too small to be the WW champ, similar to GSP fighting at MW.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

I think it's more about who you beat not how you do it.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

The **** is wrong with GSP haters? How many freaking times has Koscheck been finished in his entire 20 fight career? Twice? Once by a fluke RNC?? 

How many times has Fitch been finished in 26 fights? Twice? Once in his pro mma debut, and then by a freaking LHW KO artist in his 4th ever fight?

And people are pissed GSP isn't finishing off guys like these? Even after he dominates the heck out them standing, on the ground, in the air, underwater? 

He broke Koscheck's orbital bone with a freakin jab. Think about that.

Go whine somewhere else and complain about GSP's lack of killer instinct. This guy has finished 8 of his 15 UFC wins, which is a pretty good rate for a Welterweight, all while having the toughest fight roster in UFC history. Way better than many other top WW contenders like Fitch, Shields and Hardy.

GSP haters just like to whine about the top guy, because it's the cool thing to root for haymaker swinging underdogs instead of the clearly established best fighter in the world right now.


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## Azzan (Sep 19, 2010)

leifdawg said:


> I was really ready to give GSP props for standing and trading tonight until that last takedown/holdown fully revealed that GSP never had any intention of finishing the fight.


+1

GSP just can't finish fights.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Azzan said:


> +1
> 
> GSP just can't finish fights.


-1

Tell that to Hughes & Penn.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

absolutely, if he goes out and loses a fight or two he will go down in history as another "good fighter of his time". anderson or fedor... they could lose 2-3, and still be remembered as the greatest of all time. 

even if gsp wins his next ten, he'll still be that guy that came to win, not fight, and took the safe road to getting a paycheck.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Yojimbo said:


> Here's a little secret. Santas Claus doesn't really exist and all rankings are conjecture.
> 
> Also, I'm just as accurate with the 22 as the 45 however your not getting up when I hit you with the 45. Anderson has both guns chambered and ready GSP only carries the 22.


Sorry... but no.

Anderson certainly was not in kill mode against Cote, Leites or Maia. He *could* have finished any of these guys, but didnt? Why?

Your argument, indeed, sucks... sucks big eggs... big rotten eggs from the arse of the most gloriously mutated KFC battery hen.


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## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

Soojooko said:


> Sorry... but no.
> 
> Anderson certainly was not in kill mode against Cote, Leites or Maia. He *could* have finished any of these guys, but didnt? Why?
> 
> Your argument, indeed, sucks... sucks big eggs... big rotten eggs from the arse of the most gloriously mutated KFC battery hen.


1. Silva did finish Cote. You don't think Silva's repeated kicks to Cote's knee didn't have something to do with it giving out?

2. Leites, Silva was pressing forward nearly the entire fight, but Leites fell to his ass every time Silva even breathed on him.

3. Silva was obliterating him for 2 1/2 rounds before deciding to take his foot off the pedal to prove a point.

Edit - I won't give GSP crap for not finishing Fitch and Koscheck as they are tough SOB's. But Dan Hardy come on? He just KO'd by Carlos Condit who is a good fighter but nowhere near GSP's level.


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## Breadfan (Jan 3, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> The **** is wrong with GSP haters? How many freaking times has Koscheck been finished in his entire 20 fight career? Twice? Once by a fluke RNC??
> 
> How many times has Fitch been finished in 26 fights? Twice? Once in his pro mma debut, and then by a freaking LHW KO artist in his 4th ever fight?


This part of your post was by far the most reasonable text in this thread, even though I'm all about being pissed at GSP for not entertaining me (then again I don't post thread after thread arguing about it).

What can I say? I'm selfish. I want fighters to entertain me. A fan is a person who is excited to watch a particular fighter, right? If GSP wants to fight the way he does, more power to him. He'll keep winning and keep the belt until he's 90. If he wants to win me over as a fan, he'll win his next fight via pentagram choke and the one after that by liver kick.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

leifdawg said:


> 1. Silva did finish Cote. You don't think Silva's repeated kicks to Cote's knee didn't have something to do with it giving out?
> 
> 2. Leites, Silva was pressing forward nearly the entire fight, but Leites fell to his ass every time Silva even breathed on him.
> 
> ...


I would think the fact that Cote had needed knee surgery for over a year and had been recommended by his doctor not to fight mean that Anderson had little to do with it. Its not like Silva was doing a Pat Barry impression.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

osmium said:


> GSP would KO Bisping with his superman jab.


What are you 12 ? you're missing the point he is praising someone for something that he is shitting on another guy for :confused03:


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

skinnyBIGGS said:


> k was anyone else BORED watching the fight??? Sure GSP has game plans but none of them consist of a take him out attitude. C;eary KOS wasnt able to hang with him yet GSP allowed a fight that should've ended in the 2nd or later 3rd but dragged on to a 5round decision.....KOS had only one eye and GSP still couldnt put him away....


Just shows you don't understand mma. You don't know the difference between fighting top level fighters and 2nd tier fighters. Nuf said on this boring topic.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

leifdawg said:


> 1. Silva did finish Cote. You don't think Silva's repeated kicks to Cote's knee didn't have something to do with it giving out?
> 
> 2. Leites, Silva was pressing forward nearly the entire fight, but Leites fell to his ass every time Silva even breathed on him.
> 
> ...



1. No Silva did not finish Cote he got injured from putting pressure on his leg in a weird angle - FACT

2. Silva was pressing and jabbing , Leites did fall over , so man up and jump in his guard if your so good, Would GSP or Fedor or even Aldo not jump in someones guard ? Leites is no world beater either the guy lost by submission to Horwich , lost to Sakara lmao who is garbage.

3. Maia the better of striking in latter rounds and you're speculating about why he started DANCING IN A FIGHT , you dont know he was trying to do anything. He came across as an ass. 

As far as Dan hardy is concerned you are a complete idiot , Hardy has lost by KO 1 time , yet he isnt a Tough sob but the might Kos is who has also lost by KO 1 time ? you are just a fool.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

He was beating the hell out of Cote and it was a fairly entertaining fight. I am pretty sick of people pretending like he wasn't even hitting him. He had to have dropped Maia like 6-10 times in their fight also he only really cruised through the fourth and half of the third because he had an adrenaline dump from getting so pissed off and then calming down. People were so eager to jump on Maia's balls for windmilling in the fifth that they didn't notice Silva was beating the shit out of him the entire time he was doing that and dropped him during it.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

osmium said:


> He was beating the hell out of Cote and it was a fairly entertaining fight. I am pretty sick of people pretending like he wasn't even hitting him. He had to have dropped Maia like 6-10 times in their fight also he only really cruised through the fourth and half of the third because he had an adrenaline dump from getting so pissed off and then calming down. People were so eager to jump on Maia's balls for windmilling in the fifth that they didn't notice Silva was beating the shit out of him the entire time he was doing that and dropped him during it.


Ive seen you around the forums you defend Silva to the hilt i cant be assed to argue since you will carry on , what i will say is go back and watch the Cote fight and be honest with yourself.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

***** de Amigo said:


> Ive seen you around the forums you defend Silva to the hilt i cant be assed to argue since you will carry on , what i will say is go back and watch the Cote fight and be honest with yourself.


I have and it was a good fight no one else is held to the standard that Andy is. If he doesn't finish a guy in the first he is boring. Landing 20-50 strikes a round is average for an MMA fight and Andy was doing that but with way more efficiency than your average MMA fighter. 

I am forced to defend Silva since so many people just make shit up about him from blind hatred.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

It definitely effects his legacy.

After UFC 100 ended and everyone was talking about it, people would talk about Henderson/Bisping or Lesnar/Mir because of the vicious way they finished their opponents. That in turn, made them more popular. No one would talk about the GSP/Alves fight because it wasn't nearly as interesting as the other two fights.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Some people floor me, first we got Brock and everyone was talking about how they dont want some fake pro wrestler in MMA and how this is a sport that needs more legitimacy. Then the very same people will come into threads and puke nonsense about how GSP needs to finish fights and entertain fans to be considered the #1 p4p fighter a total fantasy ranking that has no real merit to begin with. Maybe if more of you truly wanted to see a competition and not just a bar fight you would enjoy MMA a lot more.


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## Yojimbo (Oct 25, 2009)

***** de Amigo said:


> Ive seen you around the forums you defend Silva to the hilt i cant be assed to argue since you will carry on , what i will say is go back and watch the Cote fight and be honest with yourself.


Sliva demolished Cote. Cote didn't like getting hit so he did what every one else does against Anderson. He put his tail between his legs and ran. The only opponents who haven't tucked tail against Anderson are; sonnen, Forest, Irving, Henderson, Franklin....... See a pattern? Those fighter who are brave and believe they can compete have gotten destroyed.


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