# ***OFFICIAL*** Georges St. Pierre vs. Dan Hardy Pre/Post Fight



## Xerxes

*Please conduct ALL of your discussion in regards to Georges "Rush" St. Pierre facing Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy in this thread. All threads made in regards to this fight will be merged into this one.*​


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## Indestructibl3

GSP by sheer domination. 4th round TKO. Dan Hardy looks funny in that pic ^^^


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## Syxx Paq

is it to early to say hardy gets no votes? 

he'll probably get at least one, but after the first serra fight, i doubt GSP gets tagged by punches again.


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## luckbox

Georges St.Pierre retains after a TKO in the 3 round. GSP will play his strenghts and Hardy will be exhausted after spending most of the fight on his back. Hardy will get dominated.


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## Rastaman

Hard to go against GSP these days...or really ever in his career. I gotta pick Georges St. Pierre by TKO (Strikes) in the 2nd Round. Dan Hardy is good, but I'm not even sure he's the 2nd best Welterweight the UFC has to offer...even though he bores me to tears, I think Jon Fitch is probably the 2nd best (assuming he beats Alves).


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## Devil_Bingo

Yup i went with Hardy. Hardy could catch him with a shot just like Serra did. I'm rooting for Hardy.


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## morninglightmt

GSP round 2 TKO


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## tommydaone

Lots of respect for GSP, but gotta back the English fighters! Come on Hardy!

Hardy by 1st round KO :confused05:


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## LOJ

I really don't see Dan Hardy tagging GSP with strikes, GSP has learned his lesson, and hes not the type of fighter that makes a stupid mistake twice. 

Hardy has got to bring it right from the start and pressure GSP. If he thinks to long about what hes going to do, he'll be dominated by GSP's strength.

Hardy admitted that hes probably going to get taken down in the fight, but theres more to it then that. If you don't know if your going to be standing or being wrestled down to the mat then your striking is limited. It's easy enough to say it until you get in there and you have no idea what your opponent is going to do next.

I think that Hardy is going to fall to GSP's smarts as a fighter. He'll dominate Hardy in every aspect of martial arts, theres no question about it in my mind.

GSP is so driven, and so ready for anything that comes his way; period.

Hardy has got to KO him to win, only way because the longer the fight goes the better Georges becomes; we've seen it time and time again.

GSP via stoppage, round 2.


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## Thelegend

would be awesome turn of events if hardy won........but lofl george st. pierre by gods wrath.


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## Vale_Tudo

I see some 10-8 rounds and a bloody Dan Hardy


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## Bush

Just can't see Hardy beating GSP.....what big names has Hardy really beat???? I'm a Brit and would love to see a british fighter become champ in the UFC but don't know whether Hardy deserves it


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## Grotty

Hardy is in a win win situation, yes he is a severe underdog but lets face it noone is really expecting him to win so no pressure there only pressure on GSP.
Hardy will no doubt have trained better than he has yet and has no doubt improved his skills just down to the fact he is facing a future hall of famer, if Hardy gives it his all and goes down swinging it will enhance his sellability( is that a word?).
So there is no shame in losing to GSP and lets face it Hardy is only really beginning his UFC career.
I really hope GSP stays on his feet as i think Hardy is the better counter striker and has the better chin but its MMA so we'll see.


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## Machida Karate

*UFC 111 GSP vs Hardy Trailer Video!*






I knew this fight was an obvious win for GSP, but watching this Trailer actually made me laugh on how bad this beat down is going to REALLY be...


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## HitOrGetHit

I think that Hardy's standup will be terrible compared to usual because he is so busy thinking about defending the takedown. It happens to all of the fighters GSP goes against.


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## BobbyCooper

Even if GSP had zero TD and ground fighting, he would own Hardy so badly on the feet. He will TKO/KO Hardy in the second round. His striking is far ahead!


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## SideWays222

Lol i honestly think that was horrible... and so cheesy with the serious voice saying "but in this game there is always someone better.... and dan hardy thinks he is the one"

Lmao


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## TheBadGuy

Wasnt that same picture of Mir that was in the trailer of 107?


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## HitOrGetHit

I think that Hardy will be scared to commit like every other fighter who has fought GSP because they spend the entire fight thinking about defending the takedown.


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## mmamasta

Yeah, I wasn't a fan of the GSP v. Dan Hardy intro, it really does ('cause it's true) make it look like GSP is going to walk through him.

But am I the only one who thought the Mir v. Carwin clips were AWESOME. Lol, they made them both look like MONSTERS, I love it. (considering I'm a fan of Carwin, and was a fan of Mir, I might have some bias)


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## Machida Karate

BobbyCooper said:


> Even if GSP had zero TD and ground fighting, he would own Hardy so badly on the feet. He will TKO/KO Hardy in the second round. His striking is far ahead!


Seriously! Like we need to blind fold GSP to even this fight...


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## BobbyCooper

Machida Karate said:


> Seriously! Like we need to blind fold GSP to even this fight...


haha I know it's sad, but we have too :laugh: 

A Blindfold for George would be more than fair here!^^


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## AlphaDawg

LOL At people saying he's going to TKO Hardy. GSP is going to win don't get me wrong but it's going to be by his usual unanimous decision.


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## HitOrGetHit

AlphaDawg said:


> LOL At people saying he's going to TKO Hardy. GSP is going to win don't get me wrong but it's going to be by his usual unanimous decision.


I wouldn't be super surprised if GSP got a TKO. I do think it will be a decision but GSP can catch people with head kicks and he could get a stoppage via ground and pound.


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## Machida Karate

AlphaDawg said:


> LOL At people saying he's going to TKO Hardy. GSP is going to win don't get me wrong but it's going to be by his usual unanimous decision.



Why is that so funny? Hardy had good fight with Swick in the stand up.... Did u see what GSP did u Fitch in there stand up war???

U think Swick can stand with Fitch? With a 5 round fight with this kid he will be able to Sub him TKO him or **** him in the ass if he wanted....

Look at the shots GSP landed on someone like BJ Penn and his stand up caliber, and let me know what u think again with the whole Hardy TKO thought

And GSP has been out for almost a year, and he has been talking about how he put on a lot more weight, which will include better take downs and stronger strikes...

And if you think were going to see even the same GSP (that has been raping everyone in all positions)

Is going to be the same fighter that owned Alves ur wrong... And even the GSP that fought 3 years ago would put Hardy to shame....

GSP has almost been out for a year doing nothing but training.... And most of that was for Hardy.... 

GSP put it best when he said he was going to make a big statement in this fight, and i believe he is talking about his stand up

And yes i am a GSP nut hugger


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## BobbyCooper

AlphaDawg said:


> LOL At people saying he's going to TKO Hardy. GSP is going to win don't get me wrong but it's going to be by his usual unanimous decision.


This fight will never last 25 min, no way!!!

I think GSP will probably try something out in this fight, so I would not be suprised to see a sub either. He is going to play with Dan for a bit and then finish him anyway he wants.


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## Soojooko

Man, you guys talk like MMA is Top Trumps.

I dont matter that all of GSP's "parameters" are higher than Hardys. All it means is that there is a higher chance of GSP winning. I would give Hardy between 20%-30% chance. The way people gush about GSP its like Hardy has absolutely no chance... literally. You guys dont really believe that, right? 

I mean, Im all for a bit of frivolous theatre to our postings. eg, I'm prone to the occasional:

"Hardy will take it via a Mohawk backsweep ding dong kick to the kindeys... mark my words!!!".

I assume the Georgettes are doing the same with sweeping conclusions as to how bad GSP will crush Hardy, right? Or do you really really believe that the fight is next to pointless as no way Hardy will win? Really?


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## BobbyCooper

Unfortunately yes Soojo 

It doesn't happen to often an MMA, but this fight is probably the most predictable one in years.


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## Soojooko

Well, if its that predictable then I hope you all make loads of cash from the huge bets you'll be puttin' down on GSP, riight?


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## BobbyCooper

Soojooko said:


> Well, if its that predictable then I hope you all make loads of cash from the huge bets you'll be puttin' down on GSP, riight?


Unfortunately even the bookies know this time, who will win this fight 10 out of 10 times!


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## Machida Karate

Soojooko said:


> Man, you guys talk like MMA is Top Trumps.
> 
> I dont matter that all of GSP's "parameters" are higher than Hardys. All it means is that there is a higher chance of GSP winning. I would give Hardy between 20%-30% chance. The way people gush about GSP its like Hardy has absolutely no chance... literally. You guys dont really believe that, right?
> 
> I mean, Im all for a bit of frivolous theatre to our postings. eg, I'm prone to the occasional:
> 
> "Hardy will take it via a Mohawk backsweep ding dong kick to the kindeys... mark my words!!!".
> 
> I assume the Georgettes are doing the same with sweeping conclusions as to how bad GSP will crush Hardy, right? Or do you really really believe that the fight is next to pointless as no way Hardy will win? Really?



LOL its mma man of coarse he has a chance... Unless Hardy's punches suddenly can only go threw the guy like thin air, then he has A chance...

But im just saying what GSP is bringing and he completely in every aspect of the game outclasses the kid and he might even make him look a little funny...

But as long as Hardy comes in with arms attached to his body he has a chance.... Yes your right, the dude is strong enough to make the world spin on GSP.

But after what he did to BJ and Fitch and all the strikers he has faced, what is Hardy bringing that GSP hasn't faced and destroyed??

And i would but money but the fact that if i bet 30 bucks American i would get 1$ back.... Is pretty lame...

I dont see it going passed 2 rounds and would be shocked to see a decision and laugh at the thought of a lose


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## Chileandude

I loved how they said: presented by Tapout, just as Brock was tapping to Mir, nice touch.


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## Soojooko

BobbyCooper said:


> Unfortunately even the bookies know this time, who will win this fight 10 out of 10 times!


10 out of 10... wow. Thats some statement Bobby my man. I hope I dont ( do ) get the chance to taunt you with it.


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## BobbyCooper

Soojooko said:


> 10 out of 10... wow. Thats some statement Bobby my man. I hope I dont ( do ) get the chance to taunt you with it.


haha you won't Soojo  No chance for you there^^


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## Machida Karate

Lol Bobby u dont give Hardy even a 1% in reality?

I, in reality give him a 10% chance that he lands a shot GSP doesn't see coming...

But even if he does will it finish GSP? Seeing how many shots he took from Sarah and still didn't get KO'ed idk

Other then that there is no other way i see him winning it, so i have to give it 90% chance GSP IMO


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## tlilly

Machida Karate said:


> Lol Bobby u dont give Hardy even a 1% in reality?
> 
> I, in reality give him a 10% chance that he lands a shot GSP doesn't see coming...
> 
> But even if he does will it finish GSP? Seeing how many shots he took from Sarah and still didn't get KO'ed idk
> 
> Other then that there is no other way i see him winning it, so i have to give it 90% chance GSP IMO


If they fought 20 times, and all 15 times they had a full camp to prepare, and assuming their skills stayed the same every time, I'd say hardy can win 1 fight. The reason is I think GSP will try and successfully take him down in 19 of the fights and 1 fight he might catch him before he takes him down.


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## BobbyCooper

Machida Karate said:


> Lol Bobby u dont give Hardy even a 1% in reality?
> 
> I, in reality give him a 10% chance that he lands a shot GSP doesn't see coming...
> 
> But even if he does will it finish GSP? Seeing how many shots he took from Sarah and still didn't get KO'ed idk
> 
> Other then that there is no other way i see him winning it, so i have to give it 90% chance GSP IMO


No MK exactly because of the reasons you just mentioned. Hardy doens't have this one shot wich would instantly KO George. If GSP would fight somebody with the power of Serra, than I would give him 10% but Hardy doesn't even have that.


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## Machida Karate

tlilly said:


> If they fought 20 times, and all 15 times they had a full camp to prepare, and assuming their skills stayed the same every time, I'd say hardy can win 1 fight. The reason is I think GSP will try and successfully take him down in 19 of the fights and 1 fight he might catch him before he takes him down.



Right thats around the lines as i was saying, all we see him doing ever is catching him with a lucky shot.

And if he doesn't get it, it will be GSP outclassing him in every aspect

Edit



BobbyCooper said:


> No MK exactly because of the reasons you just mentioned. Hardy doens't have this one shot wich would instantly KO George. If GSP would fight somebody with the power of Serra, than I would give him 10% but Hardy doesn't even have that.


Yeah but not even 1%.... Thats still ignorance lol


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## tjk_82

Is it just me or does it seem like GSP's striking is much more fluid than Hardy's?


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## swpthleg

I *do* love GSP. I DON'T think he's necessarily going to walk through Hardy. 

I am about 90% certain that his win will be via UD and I won't get to see him use any karate, and I'll be sad.


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## BobbyCooper

Machida Karate said:


> Yeah but not even 1%.... Thats still ignorance lol


Well I just don't see him losing, even when they fight 10 times! :dunno:



swpthleg said:


> I *do* love GSP. I DON'T think he's necessarily going to walk through Hardy.
> 
> I am about 90% certain that his win will be via UD and I won't get to see him use any karate, and I'll be sad.


Oh I think we will see some of it! It will be like a sparring match for him, where he can try something out. I can also see a sub victory, but most likely a Kyokushin karate KO blow


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## Life B Ez

Hardy needs to pray to whoever it is that he prays to, that GSP has an after party to go to, than the beating he'll receive will be far shortened and less painful to watch because Georges has to got to get out and get ready for the party.


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## swpthleg

It only takes GSP about 15 minutes to shower up and get into that pimp suit, fortunately.


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## Vale_Tudo

Soojooko said:


> Or do you really really believe that the fight is next to pointless as no way Hardy will win? Really?


Really! 
There Is absolutely no way Hardy will win this fight. I dont even see a flash ko as he doesnt have the power.


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## Danm2501

Rory Markham begs to differ.

GSP will not knock Dan Hardy out on the feet. Dan's got a solid chin, he's walked through shots from Marcus Davis and Mike Swick without looking remotely fazed. He KO'd Rory Markham, and had Swick hurt a couple of times, but failed to capitalise on the chances (stupidly going for a takedown each time, that won't happen against GSP). I think people are hugely under-rating Dan Hardy here. I do believe GSP will come away with the win, but Dan does have a solid chance of pulling off a win. Serra proved that GSP's not invincible, and although he's got notably better since then, there's definitely a chance that Hardy could beat GSP. I'd personally love to see it happen, it'd sure surprise a hell of a lot of people.


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## Life B Ez

Danm2501 said:


> Serra proved that GSP's not invincible, and although he's got notably better since then,


Notably better? Has the man even lost a round since that fight?


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## Danm2501

Not sure (whether he's lost a round since, or the exact point you were trying to make), but "notably better" is a compliment, he has improved considerably since the first Serra fight. However, I do still think there's a chance that Hardy could catch him on the feet. He has KO power and he also technical and very proficient Muay Thai. He trains down at Team Rough House with Paul Daley, and although his striking isn't as good as Daley's, he probably possesses a better all-round MMA game, with good Jiu-Jitsu (has trained under Eddie Bravo) and decent enough wrestling. This fight will not be a walk in the park for St-Pierre. I do anticipate a GSP win, but it will not be as easy as many people are suspecting, and frankly I consider the calls for GSP to wear a blindfold pretty insulting towards Dan. Give the bloke the respect he deserves.


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## Life B Ez

Danm2501 said:


> Not sure (whether he's lost a round since, or the exact point you were trying to make), but "notably better" is a compliment, he has improved considerably since the first Serra fight. However, I do still think there's a chance that Hardy could catch him on the feet. He has KO power and he also possesses technical and very proficient Muay Thai. He trains down at Team Rough House with Paul Daley, and although his striking isn't as good as Daley's, he probably possesses a better all-round MMA game, with good Jiu-Jitsu (has trained under Eddie Bravo) and decent enough wrestling. This fight will not be a walk in the park for St-Pierre. I do anticipate a GSP win, but it will not be as easy as many people are suspecting, and frankly I consider the calls for GSP to wear a blindfold pretty insulting towards Dan. Give the bloke the respect he deserves.


Hardy has to stay on his feet if he wants to get a flash KO and finish GSP, which I don't see happening. I see Hardy on his back like a high school cheerleader for two or three rounds before GSP turns up the heat and ends the fight, probably GnPs him out. That is unless Hardy has a heart like Fitch and won't quit, than 50-45 UD for GSP.

Hardy is a good fighter, just not at a level even close to Georges.


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## Inkdot

Xerxes said:


> *Please conduct ALL of your discussion in regards to Georges "Rush" St. Pierre facing Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy in this thread. All threads made in regards to this fight will be merged into this one.*​


Dan Hardy wins the fashion competition by far! GSP wins the fight by far! I'm sad to say cuz I like D. Hardy lots, his fights are entertaining, and he is the master at comedy trashtalk!


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## HitOrGetHit

Inkdot said:


> Dan Hardy wins the fashion competition by far! GSP wins the fight by far! I'm sad to say cuz I like D. Hardy lots, his fights are entertaining, and he is the master at comedy trashtalk!


WHAT?! Nobody can beat GSP in a pinstripe suit!


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## fuesselfc

Vale_Tudo said:


> I see some 10-8 rounds and a bloody Dan Hardy


How come we dont see more 10-8 rounds with as much as some people are on their backs in fights? 

I want to see GSP bring out his submission game on hardy on the mat with smooth transitions like he did against Hughes #3 to end the fight. 

Although I would like to see him drop Hardy since he has mentioned he has gained some more strength with his new nutritionist making his meals. RUSH GSP!!


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## Indestructibl3

I believe GSP will really avoid Hardy's striking game for the first 2 rounds - wear him down, push him up against the cage and put/keep him on his back. Then, he'll stand a kickbox with him en route to a 5 round UD. Sounds surprisingly similar to the BJ Penn fight.


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## BobbyCooper

HitOrGetHit said:


> WHAT?! Nobody can beat GSP in a pinstripe suit!


Lyoto can :thumb02:


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## Inkdot

HitOrGetHit said:


> WHAT?! Nobody can beat GSP in a pinstripe suit!


Hehe personally I think that suit is horrible! The collar is too big, everything is too big, he reminds me of a scaled up version of mini me fron Austin Powers in a child sized suit from the late 90's.

Hardy got a Fred Perry vest over a slick shirt, reminicent or inspired by early mods/skinheads but more posh (original jamaican rude boy skinheads, NOT *********** neo nazis mind you!). Just very classy imho.

These are ofc not facts, just tastes that differ from person to person. I think GSP should buy a nicer suit, then he would look good, he has all the attributes needed to be able to look good!

PS. I'm not gay, I'm Swedish, we take our fashion serious! :sarcastic12:


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## Leed

Inkdot said:


> Dan Hardy wins the fashion competition by far! GSP wins the fight by far! I'm sad to say cuz I like D. Hardy lots, his fights are entertaining, and he is the master at comedy trashtalk!


What are you talking about? Nothing says 'a man' more than a suit. How can Hardy beat him with his nerdish high-school clothes? :thumbsup:


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## Inkdot

Leed said:


> What are you talking about? Nothing says 'a man' more than a suit. How can Hardy beat him with his nerdish high-school clothes? :thumbsup:


There is a difference between suits and _suits_. See my post above.

High-school clothes? What high-school did you attend? I wish I'd attended that school! :thumb02:


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## No_Mercy

Thiago Alves was definitely a bigger threat. If Thiago had a wrestling pedigree or BJJ black belt it would have been a lot more interesting though. 

I sincerely hope GSP switches up his game plan and just decides to put on a Muay Thai clinic.


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## Leed

Inkdot said:


> There is a difference between suits and _suits_. See my post above.
> 
> High-school clothes? What high-school did you attend? I wish I'd attended that school! :thumb02:


Yes, true, but still - gotta respect the man with a suit. 

haha, not me, but dunno why, his clothes reminds me a high-school 'uniform'.


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## luckbox

The only way Hardy can win this fight is by knocking GSP out, I think we can all agree on that. But we have seen time and time again how strikers doesn't wanna commit fully to their striking, and is always worrying about the takedown when facing St. Pierre. The way I see it, if Dan Hardy is going out there defensive and worrying about the takedown, he has no chance whatsoever. There is no way in hell Hardy will win a decision, and in the championship rounds he will get absolutely battered by Georges. So the only way Hardy can take this is by going in to the octagon and throwing big haymakers right from the start. If he can connect early, we might see a close fight. If Hardy has the balls to leave himself open for the takedown, he might have a chance.


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## BobbyCooper

If Hardy wants to strike with GSP it will be over very quickly!


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## KillerShark1985

I think GSP will get a TKO or submission before the end of round 3.


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## luckbox

BobbyCooper said:


> If Hardy wants to strike with GSP it will be over very quickly!


He doesn't have much of a choice. Go big or go home for Hardy.


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## BobbyCooper

luckbox said:


> He doesn't have much of a choice. Go big or go home for Hardy.


Right! Sad but true..


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## Inkdot

Am I the only one who beilives that Hardy is the better striker? If GSP is also the superior striker then I guess we can start making reservations with a nice church for Hardys funeral.


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## Drogo

Inkdot said:


> Am I the only one who beilives that Hardy is the better striker? If GSP is also the superior striker then I guess we can start making reservations with a nice church for Hardys funeral.


You probably aren't the only one but I think you're mistaken. GSP's striking tends to get overlooked because his wrestling is so ridiculous. Everyone said BJ would beat him standing and GSP clearly won the stand up in that fight (although there wasn't a lot of it). Most people said GSP would get knocked out if he stood with Alves and he completely tooled Alves standing. 

I have a hard time seeing GSP outstrike BJ and Thiago and then getting outstruck by Dan Hardy. Not that Hardy shouldn't go for it standing, even though he is at a disadvantage there it is a much smaller disadvantage than on the ground. Hardy needs to wade in and hope to catch GSP. He probably won't but I don't see how he can win otherwise.


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## HitOrGetHit

Drogo said:


> You probably aren't the only one but I think you're mistaken. GSP's striking tends to get overlooked because his wrestling is so ridiculous. Everyone said BJ would beat him standing and GSP clearly won the stand up in that fight (although there wasn't a lot of it). Most people said GSP would get knocked out if he stood with Alves and he completely tooled Alves standing.
> 
> I have a hard time seeing GSP outstrike BJ and Thiago and then getting outstruck by Dan Hardy. Not that Hardy shouldn't go for it standing, even though he is at a disadvantage there it is a much smaller disadvantage than on the ground. Hardy needs to wade in and hope to catch GSP. He probably won't but I don't see how he can win otherwise.


GSP can outstrike better strikers because of his wrestling. His opponents don't commit like they usually would because when they do, they are immediately taken down. So then their striking suffers as they are too worried about the takedown.


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## Roflcopter

Can't wait to see Hardy's big mouth shut.


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## Indestructibl3

Roflcopter said:


> Can't wait to see Hardy's big mouth shut.


Haha Hardy's hilarious though, and from what I've seen so far there hasn't been that much trash-talk from him.


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## JimmyJames

Indestructibl3 said:


> Haha Hardy's hilarious though, and from what I've seen so far there hasn't been that much trash-talk from him.


Thats only because it's hard to talk shit about a guy as humble as GSP.


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## No_Mercy

I don't think Hardy can really talk shit about someone like GSP. So he's making the best of it since this is his chance of the lifetime. 

I really want to see a five round clinic by GSP. Like BJ vs Sanchez style.


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## The Legacy

The first British fighter to fight for a UFC title. About time, too! 

Unfortunately it is against GSP, one of the best fighters in the game, ever. 

I have faith in Hardy but I'm not an idiot, I realise that he is a massive underdog in this fight, but that suits him.

I am pleased that Hardy has come out and said that he isn't worried about being taken down by GSP and he'll go with his game plan, when he is taken down he will try his hardest to get back to his feet and punch him in the face again. 

This is refreshing to hear. Defending against GSP's takedowns is a near impossible task. So don't change your style to defend against it, do what you do best and swing those fists at his face. Who knows, if one catches him then this could be the biggest upset since Serra shocked the world and captured the title.

Dan Hardy has good striking skills and good power, however to generate that power he swings his hips into his punches, that will make him easier to takedown if GSP can pick his shots.

But yeah, I'm cheering for Hardy but GSP should take this.


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## AlphaDawg

I still can't believe Hardy is even getting a shot. I'm still trying to think what he has done to deserve it. It's ridiculous.


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## HitOrGetHit

AlphaDawg said:


> I still can't believe Hardy is even getting a shot. I'm still trying to think what he has done to deserve it. It's ridiculous.


That is an easy answer. He has done nothing to deserve it. He hasn't beaten one single top contender. The UFC is just looking for someone new to put in front of GSP.


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## Grotty

HitOrGetHit said:


> That is an easy answer. He has done nothing to deserve it. He hasn't beaten one single top contender. The UFC is just looking for someone new to put in front of GSP.


Kos got beat so his win streak went boohoo and he was conveniently injured so he let Swick take the slap for him ffs let it go and Fitch looked average in his last win,


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## Soojooko

HitOrGetHit said:


> That is an easy answer. He has done nothing to deserve it. He hasn't beaten one single top contender. The UFC is just looking for someone new to put in front of GSP.


I dont care. I dont want to see Fitch v GSP again. Dont want Kos. Dont want Alves. I think there are more fans who feel like me then not. Whether Hardy deserves it is another issue. Hes all we got for now.

Either of the 3 previous carcases against GSP again wouldn't have generated anywhere need the buzz and debate that Hardy has. Who would honestly be excited by Kos/Fitch vs GSP again?


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## buckeyefighter

I gotta say GSP has this one in the bag. barring a Serra like uoset GSP will dominate hardy the same way he did Thiago Alves in their fight. Hardy has good hands and his grappling game has been improving from what iv seen online but he is no where close to the level of fighter GSP is. Idk that GSP will knock him out but i could see a submission. either way GSP keeps his belt.


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## AlphaDawg

Soojooko said:


> Who would honestly be excited by Kos/Fitch vs GSP again?


Me. I wouldn't be interested in seeing Fitch vs GSP again but I'd definitely want to see Kos vs GSP again. Kos has gotten a lot better since their last encounter, just as GSP has gotten better. Kos stands a lot more of a chance than Hardy does. Fitch got murdered so I personally don't think he should ever get a title shot unless he does something impressive like KO Alves or something along those lines.


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## Danm2501

What has Koscheck done to deserve a title shot? He's 3-2 in his last 5 losing to Paulo Thiago and Thiago Alves, with his wins coming against Yoshida, Trigg and Johnson. How is that anymore impressive than Hardy's 4-0 UFC record, with wins over Swick, Davis, Markham and Gono? Dan's done what he needed to do to get a title shot. He dominated Swick, who was on a 4 fight win streak at the time and he offers something abit different to Koscheck and Fitch.


----------



## NikosCC

GSP will win this fight by anyway he wants he will control this whole fight like every other fight he does..


----------



## Inkdot

IF Hardy wins it will be the best day this year for sure, just to see all the outrage that would follow on this forum! :thumb02:

I would get some popcorn, put on a bath robe and enjoy the show!


----------



## AlphaDawg

Danm2501 said:


> What has Koscheck done to deserve a title shot? He's 3-2 in his last 5 losing to Paulo Thiago and Thiago Alves, with his wins coming against Yoshida, Trigg and Johnson. How is that anymore impressive than Hardy's 4-0 UFC record, with wins over Swick, Davis, Markham and Gono? Dan's done what he needed to do to get a title shot. He dominated Swick, who was on a 4 fight win streak at the time and he offers something abit different to Koscheck and Fitch.


Dan Hardy wouldn't stand a chance against Anthony Johnson. I'd rank Anthony Johnson over every fighter Hardy has beat. Dan Hardy also wouldn't stand a chance against Thiago Alves or Paulo Thiago.


----------



## Soojooko

AlphaDawg said:


> Dan Hardy wouldn't stand a chance against Anthony Johnson. I'd rank Anthony Johnson over every fighter Hardy has beat. Dan Hardy also wouldn't stand a chance against Thiago Alves or Paulo Thiago.


Are those opinions or do you have a time machine or something?

Ive seen nothing that convinces me that Dan vs Thiago/Alves/Johnson is anywhere near as conclusive as you make out. I'm pretty sure the fights will be competitive though.


----------



## Machida Karate

Soojooko said:


> Are those opinions or do you have a time machine or something?
> 
> Ive seen nothing that convinces me that Dan vs Thiago/Alves/Johnson is anywhere near as conclusive as you make out. I'm pretty sure the fights will be competitive though.



I dont see what Hardy would bring against a Anthony Johnson or Alves, but i can see a good brawl with Paulo


----------



## Danm2501

Apart from excellent, technical muay thai, very good Freddie Roach trained boxing, a solid chin and good jiu-jitsu? Yeah, I don't see what Dan Hardy would bring against either of those 2 either. People say Dan Hardy's over-rated, but what has Anthony Johnson done? He's 5-3 in the UFC, with his wins coming against Yoshida, Fioravanti, Burns, Speer and Reiner with losses against Burns (harsh due to the eye poke), Clementi and Koscheck. Massively over-rated due to his size and KO power, if Hardy didn't beat him then Johnson'd have his arse handed to him by Paul Daley. He certainly isn't in the same league as Thiago Alves, and I don't actually rate him higher than Paulo Thiago.


----------



## Machida Karate

Danm2501 said:


> Apart from excellent, technical muay thai, very good Freddie Roach trained boxing, a solid chin and good jiu-jitsu? Yeah, I don't see what Dan Hardy would bring against either of those 2 either. People say Dan Hardy's over-rated, but what has Anthony Johnson done? He's 5-3 in the UFC, with his wins coming against Yoshida, Fioravanti, Burns, Speer and Reiner with losses against Burns (harsh due to the eye poke), Clementi and Koscheck. Massively over-rated due to his size and KO power, if Hardy didn't beat him then Johnson'd have his arse handed to him by Paul Daley. He certainly isn't in the same league as Thiago Alves, and I don't actually rate him higher than Paulo Thiago.



Everyone at this point in UFC has experience in all category's i wasn't talking about that, i was going on the base of what someone is Great at.

Like Anthony his size won most of his big fights, but still have amazing reach and power/speed which he always brings nasty stand up that guys like Swick i dont see going 3 rounds, Kos had to take the guy down as well, I see Anthony using his reach and size to overcome that fight.

And Alves wouldn't have a hard time out striking on the feet and muscle him around on the ground imo, but its all MMA so he has a chance with all these guys its just the i personally see the odds in Anthony or Alves favor.

And I believe styles makes fights and that Paulo vs Anthony would be a good fight, but i see Hardys style going better against a guy with less reach and size like Paulo


----------



## Atilak

From my POV - anyone who will want to play striking game with Hardy could be in trouble and its at least 50/50 :thumb03: I dont say he instantly outstrike everyone.


----------



## ericxwesc

GSP will murder this chump. 

I hope it goes the distance. I don't even want to imagine what Hardy is going to look like after this, if you think alves and fitch was bad, just wait till March 27th.


----------



## ericxwesc

i hope Dan Hardy gets a brutal beating in the 1st round just like John Fitch did.

I'm pretty sure whatever round Hardy get's his ass severely beat, they'll use it as a partial clip for GSP's next fight UFC 1XX.


----------



## Blitzz

ericxwesc said:


> GSP will murder this chump.
> 
> I hope it goes the distance. I don't even want to imagine what Hardy is going to look like after this, if you think alves and fitch was bad, just wait till March 27th.


Who knows, maybe we get to see GSP stand and bang again...

Havent seen that in ages...


----------



## Machida Karate

Yeah its going to be a savage beatdown, and some good future highlights!


----------



## Machida Karate

Yeah its going to be a savage beatdown, and some good future highlights!

GSP wins this via (However he wants to finish it)


----------



## Machida Karate

Yeah lets just ignore the savage beatdown Serrah took in the stand up in there rematch....... 

Or the savage beatdown Fitch took, and everyone else after that fight for that matter.

And it wasn't even one shot that like put GSP out, it took like 15 big shots and still didn't knock the dude out....

Hardy has one way to win and people that bring up the biggest upset in UFC history and try to apply it make me laugh!

Sad to see such ignorance lol


----------



## Syxx Paq

Serra Beating GSP, is like Douglas beating Tyson. its so big of an upset 20 years from now (given MMA being as well established to the casual dude as boxing) will be looked back on as one of the great underdog pulling of this massive upset storys... like the douglas fight the story tellers will forget that he lost that title the next fight.

equating an upset of that magnitude to this, is silly. IMO Serra is even a better boxer than Hardy, and he at least had a shot on the ground.


----------



## Inkdot

I think many people in this thread are mistaking GSPs identity with God. 

-See he is just a man. 

-_What? Oh noes!_

-Yes, I'm serious!

-_But, but, OMG, GSP is unbeatable and superhuman who can also fly, walk on water and cures AIDS and Cancer!_

-Ok, I'm slowly walkling away from this thread now...


----------



## Atilak

Inkdot said:


> I think many people in this thread are mistaking GSPs identity with God.
> 
> -See he is just a man.
> 
> -_What? Oh noes!_
> 
> -Yes, I'm serious!
> 
> -_But, but, OMG, GSP is unbeatable and superhuman who can also fly, walk on water and cures AIDS and Cancer!_
> 
> -Ok, I'm slowly walkling away from this thread now...


True true raise01:

Most funny part on this forum was about fact that Serra caught him and capitalized on it. Answer : "GSP will not make this mistake again" :confused03: Ok he got once hit and since than he will not be hit again? Great conclusion. :thumb02:

Im not saying that Hardy will kill GSP but ffs he has a chance and you cant count him out.. GSP calls him a most dangerous opponent and I agree. Hardy is young and has nothing to lose!


----------



## Syxx Paq

Inkdot said:


> I think many people in this thread are mistaking GSPs identity with God.
> 
> -See he is just a man.
> 
> -_What? Oh noes!_
> 
> -Yes, I'm serious!
> 
> -_But, but, OMG, GSP is unbeatable and superhuman who can also fly, walk on water and cures AIDS and Cancer!_
> 
> -Ok, I'm slowly walkling away from this thread now...


well if this is true, hardy has nothing to worry about with having aids wished upon him


----------



## Machida Karate

Inkdot said:


> I think many people in this thread are mistaking GSPs identity with God.
> 
> -See he is just a man.
> 
> -_What? Oh noes!_
> 
> -Yes, I'm serious!
> 
> -_But, but, OMG, GSP is unbeatable and superhuman who can also fly, walk on water and cures AIDS and Cancer!_
> 
> -Ok, I'm slowly walkling away from this thread now...



Reading failed posts isnt a hobby of mine...

I think people are mistaking Hardy's identity with a top competitor

It is not obvious when u see a fighter make dudes that would DESTROY Hardy in every aspect like Bj Penn, and even sniff a chance for this joke u call a main event...

Ignorance is bliss i suppose


----------



## Liddellianenko

GSP by a 5 rd war ending in a UD, but with Hardy having his moments.


----------



## Machida Karate

Liddellianenko said:


> GSP by a 5 rd war ending in a UD, but with Hardy having his moments.



LOL i would love to see Hardys face if it goes 5 rounds to a UD LOL


----------



## HitOrGetHit

I think that once Hardy starts getting constantly taken down, his striking will go out the window just like Penn's and Alves' did. Whenever he engages, I see GSP getting tha takedown just like he did against Alves. Whenever Hardy doesn't commit because of the takedowns, I see GSP landing shots on the feet, then when Hardy returns fire, GSP will take him down again. I see this fight going like this because this is what GSP has been doing to almost everyone he has fought.


----------



## Soojooko

You know, ive seen it written 1277 times. This idea that Hardys only chance is from a "flash KO" whatever the feck that means. WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT?!

Is it sooooo infeasible that *IF* Hardy won, it would be far more likely that he did it by connecting with GSP and rocking him enough to allow Dan to get in there to cause more damage? TKO maybe?? 

I'm not a god damn eejit. I know GSP will likely punish Dan big time. I also know there is a small chance for Dan. Its not a fecking flash KO. Its about his instincts more than anything. If he rocks GSP at any stage and doesn't absolutely go for the kill with everything hes got, then he deserves his beating and indeed didn't deserve his shot. I was hugely disappointed he didn't absolutely unload on Swick when he had him rocked. To me, this is the most telling thing Dan ever did regards his weaknesses. He does that against GSP?... hes f*ucked.

Please. No more talk about flash kos. I love the guy, but a clean GSP knockout is NEVER going to happen.


----------



## nathan.keith

GSP has this one already won. IDK what the thought was in setting up this fight. I won't try to figure out how it ends though after Cotoure winning by choke. GSP is way more well rounded than cotoure so he can finish however he wants to. I'm thinking it'll be on the ground though.

And Soojooko is right, there will be no flash KO of GSP. Mat smashed him and then beat on his head and GSP never fully went out cold.


----------



## swpthleg

Well, since GSP wants to wrestle all the time, I think it'll end on the ground.

I am not writing off Hardy, however. If only because it would be one of the greatest upsets in years.


----------



## chris&snoop

Man all you GSP nuthuggers need to calm down. 
I'm a big fan of GSP, but saying hes going to walk through Hardy is just plain foolish. Hardy has ne ver NEVER been knocked out or TKO'd. Dude has a rock solid chin, he laughed when he was hit by Swick & Davis. Of course GSP is the favourite, as he would be against anyone at WW, Ever heard of ringrust? being out of the cage for nearly a year is hardly the best preparation you can have, all the training in the world counts for little in comparison to actually fighting for real. My head says GSP takes a decision, my heart says Hardy by TKO in the second round.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

chris&snoop said:


> Man all you GSP nuthuggers need to calm down.
> I'm a big fan of GSP, but saying hes going to walk through Hardy is just plain foolish. Hardy has ne ver NEVER been knocked out or TKO'd. Dude has a rock solid chin, he laughed when he was hit by Swick & Davis. Of course GSP is the favourite, as he would be against anyone at WW, Ever heard of ringrust? being out of the cage for nearly a year is hardly the best preparation you can have, all the training in the world counts for little in comparison to actually fighting for real. My head says GSP takes a decision, my heart says Hardy by TKO in the second round.


It isn't hard to say he would walk through Hardy after he already walked through Fitch, Koscheck, Hughes, Serra, Alves and Penn. I can't predict the future, but I think this could end up a lot like the Alves fight did.


----------



## Grotty

Machida Karate said:


> Reading failed posts isnt a hobby of mine...
> 
> I think people are mistaking Hardy's identity with a top competitor
> 
> It is not obvious when u see a fighter make dudes that would DESTROY Hardy in every aspect like Bj Penn, and even sniff a chance for this joke u call a main event...
> 
> Ignorance is bliss i suppose


Looking at your top fighters on your sig im surprised you even bother watching fights as you will never be wrong and no fighter stands a chance ever ever ever of beating them even by luck:sarcastic12:


----------



## Soojooko

Liddellianenko said:


> GSP by a 5 rd war ending in a UD, but with Hardy having his moments.


Thats about the most sensible prediction yet.


----------



## Stapler

It's funny how Hardy seems to think he will get up when St. Pierre takes him down. This is coming from a guy who got mounted by Marcus Davis. I'd say St. Pierre's ground game is light years ahead of Davis'. That leads me to believe that when St. Pierre takes Hardy down, Hardy will stay there most of the time. This should be a unanimous decision win for St. Pierre, although I'm not completely sure if Hardy can even avoid getting submitted. Then again, it's not as if St. Pierre hasn't taken an opponent lightly before and paid for it. Either way, I really wouldn't mind if either fighter walks away with the win.


----------



## Machida Karate

Grotty said:


> Looking at your top fighters on your sig im surprised you even bother watching fights as you will never be wrong and no fighter stands a chance ever ever ever of beating them even by luck:sarcastic12:



HAHAHA Because those are my top favorite? I love it


----------



## The Horticulturist

Machida Karate said:


> HAHAHA Because those are my top favorite? I love it


He does have a pretty good point here! I must admit.

I definitely LOL`d when I saw the list. But I`m just being silly I`m sure.


I still think Hardy has more of a chance than people think. But GSP is one of MY all time favorites as well, and I would be very excited to see him take it to Hardy.


----------



## Baron

Hardy is dangerous. He is a great counter puncher. That makes him dangerous. Alot of guys throw punches in defense because it causes their opponent to back off. But that doestn't work against a guy like Hardy. Hardy is a very special kind of fighter. A guy who can slip punches and counter. George St. Pierre will not be able to back Hardy up, and put him on his defense, on his heels. That's how you take a guy out of his game. That's how George sets up those well-timed and accurate shots. This fight makes me nervous. I think George has the raw talent to win. He has shown an ability to learn from his mistakes and improve, which alot of fighters can't do. Some people say, 'What about the first Serra fight?' That's the thing about George. You won't catch him slipping again. George is not like fighters like, say, Liddle, or Wanderlei Silva. Those guys can't improve, or change, or adapt and overcome. George can. But he better stay on the outside, use those kicks, and watch out for Hardy's counter left-hook!


----------



## Mckeever

Hardy is most likely going to get beaten black and blue, but i'll still be rooting for him. One because hes British, two because i read an interview quite recently where GSP said he is annoyed that he isnt finishing fights quicker or at all. Hmm maybe if you stand and trade for more than 20 seconds a round you might be able to finish your opponents George. Work it out.


----------



## Grotty

GSP is superb but will he ever show the will to fight at 185?


----------



## UKMMAGURU

I'm a big Hardy fan, but he is obviously the big underdog in this fight.. regardless i think this is a win-win for Hardy.

If he loses, which if we're honest is the more likely plus ther's is no shame is losing to GSP, he's young and said himself he would have had another fight or two in the UFC under perfect circumstances, anyway if he loses he has to build a winning streak and in 18-36 months be back to #1 contender status again.

If he wins the positives are obvious.

Either way i see this fight being good for Hardy.


----------



## LOJ

Agreed.

Though if GSP loses it's a totally different story. All the talk of him moving up to 185 would be thrown out the window and he would have to build up his striking reputation. As Hardy would more then likely win by TKO/KO.

It's like GSP vs. Serra I, or any fight in which you have a dominate fighter, and asn underdog. (Theres always that chance of an upset) 

Nobodies invincible, and Hardy could win this fight. However, GSP is not the same fighter he was back in April of 2007. I just don't see Hardy being able to do anything to GSP but land strikes if GSP is not careful. 

All in all GSP is on another level then anybody at 170lbs. (IMO)

He needs to move up to 185 and fight new challengers if he wins this fight.

Period.


----------



## AceofSpades187

Im going for gsp in this fight i hope he quickly distroys hardy just so the haters will shut up and stop calling him boring


----------



## Mikey Blaze

I have confidence in Georges St. Pierre, despite what Dan Hardy and others say, he's a well rounded fighter. I don't think he'll take the entire fight to the ground like he did in his second fight with Matt Sera. Not to say that GSP is going to try to knock out Hardy with his stand up game, but I think he's gonna atleast prove he can handle himself on his feet. Don't get me wrong though, Dan Hardy is a great striker, but I don't think he has enough experience under his belt to take down GSP. There is a chance that Hardy could win this fight however.. but if he does win, it's out of a TKO by a strong right or knee.

My prediction: Georges St. Pierre winning in round 5 by decision.. I wanted to say in an earlier round by submission, but I think he wants to prove himself in this fight.


----------



## Baron

I use hatred to keep me sharp. I hate with a pure and perfect hatred. I hate false moral reasoning. I hate deception through ignorance. I hate when truth is ignored when it doesn't fit with a fool's moral presuppisitions. And I really hate the idea that George should move to 185 lbs. That's a bad move. George is in the perfect position. He dominates his division and only needs to continue to do so. He dominates fights, makes no mistakes, that's why his timing is perfect. He waits. But people say, "Rush St. Pierre! Rush In! Why doesn't he rush in there and throw more kicks and punches so he can knock more people out?" Only fools rush in. The greatest night in the lives of his opponents is the night they went the distance with the best in the world. George St. Pierre would be a fool to move to 185 and to support the idea is foolish. That's my hate-filled opinion!


----------



## khoveraki

I hate everyone bringing up the Serra fight. Alves is a much better, more powerful striker with more KO power and he couldn't touch GSP. Alves is one of the better strikers in the UFC and he got dropped a few times.


Hardy has a little more reach than Alves but GSP still has 2-3" on him, and from what we've seen GSP is a much much more accomplished striker.


I'm not dissatisfied with this matchup because it'll give us a chance to see GSP finish someone early, but who knows if Hardy would make it past guys like Paulo, Koscheck, Alves, Fitch, Daley, or who knows, even Serra.


----------



## Mikey Blaze

khoveraki said:


> I hate everyone bringing up the Serra fight. Alves is a much better, more powerful striker with more KO power and he couldn't touch GSP. Alves is one of the better strikers in the UFC and he got dropped a few times.


Hey, it happened bro. I'm not saying that GSP couldn't hold his own against Matt Serra on his feet, but in the second fight he kept it on the ground. Like GSP said himself, he's an athlete, he fights to win.


----------



## Indestructibl3

Baron said:


> I use hatred to keep me sharp. I hate with a pure and perfect hatred. I hate false moral reasoning. I hate deception through ignorance. I hate when truth is ignored when it doesn't fit with a fool's moral presuppisitions. And I really hate the idea that George should move to 185 lbs. That's a bad move. George is in the perfect position. He dominates his division and only needs to continue to do so. *He dominates fights, makes no mistakes, that's why his timing is perfect.* He waits. But people say, "Rush St. Pierre! Rush In! Why doesn't he rush in there and throw more kicks and punches so he can knock more people out?" Only fools rush in. The greatest night in the lives of his opponents is the night they went the distance with the best in the world. George St. Pierre would be a fool to move to 185 and to support the idea is foolish. That's my hate-filled opinion!


It'd make more sense if you said his timing is perfect THEREFORE he dominates fights and makes no mistakes.


----------



## Baron

Thank you for pointing that out. I was thinking of positioning. But I didn't include that portion of my thoughts. My thought was incomplete, rather than out of order. 
A fighter is constantly judging his opponents position in order to respond or to make the right offensive move. A good example is watching old Mark Coleman fights. See how he waits until his opponent's position is correct before making his double leg takedown? When your opponents positioning is correct, and your judgment of it is accurate, then your timing is right. That is what I meant by saying "he makes no mistakes that's why his timing is perfect". My thought was incomplete. I appreciate your vigilance, and I will keep an eye on you from now on.


----------



## UFCFAN89

*Hardy : "On March 27 the UFC WW Title will belong to England"*



> Dan Hardy is making sure that he gives himself plenty of time to adjust, as he prepares to fly into New York from England well ahead of his championship showdown with Georges St. Pierre at UFC 111 on March 27.
> 
> Hardy earned his shot at the welterweight title with a victory over Mike Swick at UFC 105 last November in Manchester, England. Now he will have the opportunity to become the first British champion in UFC history, though to do so he will have to defeat one of the most dominant fighters in the sport in St. Pierre.
> 
> Despite the added pressure and scrutiny of entering the title fight as a heavy underdog, Hardy has remained relaxed and confident as he gets ready for the biggest fight of his career.
> 
> "I'm already in fight shape, and I am just ticking over and fine-tuning my game plans for the fight with Georges St-Pierre on March 27," Hardy wrote in a blog for thisisnottingham.co.uk. "All four of my previous UFC fights have been in Europe. But I have fought in the USA before and know it is important to get to the New York area a few weeks before fight week. I've got some great training partners lined up out there and will tell you more about it after I've settled in. I'm going to be training with some elite-level guys."
> 
> Hardy is as well-known for his sense of humor as he is for his dangerous hands and his trademark Mohawk haircut. Although some people are offended by his jokes, Hardy says that's not his goal.
> 
> "I'm happy to entertain, and my sense of humour is one of the ways I keep myself from getting bored during camp," Hardy wrote. "As people have worked out, I am pretty straightforward with my opinions and I tell it like I see it. At the end of the day I don't mind if I offend anyone, but I don't set out with that intention in mind. Usually, I'm trying to have a bit of fun and I like to think I poke fun at myself as much as I do anyone else."
> 
> During the buildup to UFC 111, many fans have commented on the fact that Hardy's distinctive stomach tattoo is missing from his photo on the event poster. The missing tattoo is a subject that Hardy would like to clear up once and for all.
> 
> "But another item I've read online I'd like to clear up is why my stomach tattoo has been Photoshopped off the official UFC 111 poster," Hardy stated. "Maybe I am the wrong guy to moan about getting Photoshopped, but I'm not really very happy about it and don't understand the reason behind it at all. I've been told the people who designed the poster felt my tattoo would be "too distracting". Well, I'm very happy with my tattoo. But it's not that dazzlingly good that fans are going to focus on that and not read that my name is Dan Hardy and I am fighting champ GSP for the UFC welterweight title on March 27. Makes no sense they airbrushed it out. But some of the guys at the gym have found it very amusing, so at least they got a laugh out of it. Some of the theories out there as to why it was removed were very funny. I had no idea MMA fans were such hardcore conspiracy theorists. If they ever do another series of the "X-Files", the producers should look no further than the MMA fan forums for their writing team."
> 
> Hardy also revealed he has something special planned for his entrance music for UFC 111.
> 
> "A lot of you might have noticed that I've been having the same entrance music for my UFC fights, which is "England Belongs to Me" by legendary British punk band, Cock SParrer," Hardy wrote. "They've been really influential in my musical taste, so imagine my surprise when they approached me about going in the studio to re-record the track with them! It was a dream come true and I will be walking out to the new version of the song when I represent England at UFC 111. Don't forget, England Belongs to Me. And on March 27 the UFC welterweight title will belong to England!"


Link to article here


----------



## GKY

Well if he means belong to a British colony then I guess I agree.


----------



## skybluesazip

As the englishman I am I would love him to win it would help the growth of mma in the uk so alot. And maybe move away mma from the thugs who seem to run it in this country. I can remember an event in my home town of Coventry where a guy lost causing all his "crew" to start a riot in the crowd.

How ever I'm a realist and I'm not going to lie gsp is much better I'm expecting this fight to be the same as Diego vs BJ a complete mma clinic. 

Dan has had some press coverage which is good for the sport in this country the media are very influential (just look at NME magazine).

The whole of the English mma scean is behind you dan

WAR HARDY !!!!


----------



## unclehulka13

Wait. Is he saying GSP is moving to England?


----------



## alizio

so wait, being a canadian citizen am i somehow also WW Champion of the world aswell?? damn!! nice!!

i hope the title will belong to Dan Hardy FROM England and not actually to England, it would be hard to beat up that many ppl ;P


----------



## khoveraki

alizio said:


> so wait, being a canadian citizen am i somehow also WW Champion of the world aswell?? damn!! nice!!
> 
> i hope the title will belong to Dan Hardy FROM England and not actually to England, *it would be hard to beat up that many ppl* ;P



If GSP clears out MW, that's what we're going to have to start putting him against anyway. :thumbsup:



Seriously though I highly doubt GSP would get English citizenship the same day as his next title defense, and that's the only way this is possible.


----------



## Ansem

alizio said:


> so wait, being a canadian citizen am i somehow also WW Champion of the world aswell?? damn!! nice!!
> 
> i hope the title will belong to Dan Hardy FROM England and not actually to England, it would be hard to beat up that many ppl ;P


No he means since he "represents" England the title will belong to England, obviously it does not mean were all welterweight champions (Canadian citizens).


----------



## swpthleg

Ahh. I see what he did thurr.

This thread is cleeevvver.

I can't help liking Hardy, and I know he's just trying to hype the fight and talk himself up, which is to be expected.


----------



## UKMMAGURU

It's an amazing quote, and i'd love love love to see a UK Champion, i know the odds, and Hardys are slim... but he has a chance! He believes and UK fans should believe...


----------



## TheGrizzlyBear

Who knows, Hardy might have a good chance at winning... GSP could be coming into the fight with some ring rust, its been awhile since he's fought and it could effect him, we won't know for sure until the fight but stranger things have happened, like Matt Serra beating GSP


----------



## Machida Karate

TheGrizzlyBear said:


> Who knows, Hardy might have a good chance at winning... GSP could be coming into the fight with some ring rust, its been awhile since he's fought and it could effect him, we won't know for sure until the fight but stranger things have happened, like Matt Serra beating GSP



Lol cmon man... Do u not train while ur waiting to beat the piss out of a Overrated Title Contender?

Like just because he hasn't fought in UFC events doesn't mean he doesn't fight EVERYDAY in Training.... There is NO Rust, he isn't going to get caught in the emotions or anything, the fact that we haven't seen him fight in so long just means that he didn't get to see how much Better he has gotten after all this time....

Rust? Serious?

TRUST ME my friend, he fights better fighters EACH day, this will be a step down from everyday training LOL




> Don't forget, England Belongs to Me. And on March 27 the UFC welterweight title will belong to England!"


Oh and HAHAHAHA! I guess we all have our right to Dream, BIG Dreams


----------



## TheGrizzlyBear

The thing is being in there fighting and training to fight are two way different things, im not saying it WILL effect him...just that it could effect him, and don't forget he did injure himself in his last fight, so he wasn't training until that healed, and who knows if he's back at 100% there are a ton of variables that could play to hardy's favor in this fight... I just want to see a good fight haha and I know it will be.


----------



## nathan.keith

I respect Hardy's national pride but it just isn't going to happen.


----------



## Machida Karate

TheGrizzlyBear said:


> The thing is being in there fighting and training to fight are two way different things, im not saying it WILL effect him...just that it could effect him, and don't forget he did injure himself in his last fight, so he wasn't training until that healed, and who knows if he's back at 100% there are a ton of variables that could play to hardy's favor in this fight... I just want to see a good fight haha and I know it will be.


Yeah i understand its different if ur fighting a style u havent fought already....

GSP made BETTER stand up guys look retarded, and sub'ed WAY better ground guys... He doesn't even need to train for this fight because there isn't anything Hardy brings that he hasn't beaten better of....

I understand what ur saying though, but this IS Dan Hardy... Not Anderson Silva.... 

If he were to fight Anderson, THEN i would be like Oh Shit he doesn't have enough time to prepare and how long has he been healed? And how long has he been preparing?

But its Hardy, and he has already beaten guys that are better in every way........... Lol Enough said


----------



## swpthleg

I love GSP, but I'm not writing Hardy off. I won't bet on him, but I've said already that IDK if GSP will walk though him. 

Hardy strikes me as the kind of guy who can psych himself up to the point that he surprises everybody, including himself.


----------



## Rauno

Hardy knows that he is walking into a human massacre, where he is going to get the short end, he is still hyping up the fight. What a sportsman!


----------



## Soojooko

Machida Karate said:


> Yeah i understand its different if ur fighting a style u havent fought already....
> 
> GSP made BETTER stand up guys look retarded, and sub'ed WAY better ground guys... He doesn't even need to train for this fight because there isn't anything Hardy brings that he hasn't beaten better of....
> 
> I understand what ur saying though, but this IS Dan Hardy... Not Anderson Silva....
> 
> If he were to fight Anderson, THEN i would be like Oh Shit he doesn't have enough time to prepare and how long has he been healed? And how long has he been preparing?
> 
> But its Hardy, and he has already beaten guys that are better in every way........... Lol Enough said


How do you know the fighters GSP has already faced are better than Hardy, seeing as NONE of them have fought him yet? You should try the occasional, "I think..." or "In my opinion..."

God, I hope Dan wins, for no other reason that giving me something to laugh at for the rest of the year.


----------



## Machida Karate

Soojooko said:


> How do you know the fighters GSP has already faced are better than Hardy, seeing as NONE of them have fought him yet? You should try the occasional, "I think..." or "In my opinion..."
> 
> God, I hope Dan wins, for no other reason that giving me something to laugh at for the rest of the year.



I watch GSP completely kill someone like Fitch, Alves and BJ PENN, in fact he is the ONLY one to beat BJ TWICE and is also the first one to make BJ Quit.... How do i know he hasn't faced better then Hardy?? LOL!!!!

Obviously Styles Makes Fights, but if ur going to tell me that Hardy is better then Bj Penn, by saying "seeing as NONE of them have fought him yet?" then there isn't much sense in talking about anything else

OK Dude, if he pulls something completely out of his ass and.... WOw its hard to type.... Actually beats GSP... LOL...

What the F do u think GSP will do after that... Same thing he did to Serra, and ill tell u that u wouldn't be laughing for to long... LOL!


----------



## Soojooko

Machida Karate said:


> I watch GSP completely kill someone like Fitch, Alves and BJ PENN, in fact he is the ONLY one to beat BJ TWICE and is also the first one to make BJ Quit.... How do i know he hasn't faced better then Hardy?? LOL!!!!
> 
> Obviously Styles Makes Fights, but if ur going to tell me that Hardy is better then Bj Penn, by saying "seeing as NONE of them have fought him yet?" then there isn't much sense in talking about anything else
> 
> OK Dude, if he pulls something completely out of his ass and.... WOw its hard to type.... Actually beats GSP... LOL...
> 
> What the F do u think GSP will do after that... Same thing he did to Serra, and ill tell u that u wouldn't be laughing for to long... LOL!


MMA math in full effect.


----------



## Rusko

Ansem said:


> No he means since he "represents" England the title will belong to England, obviously it does not mean were all welterweight champions (Canadian citizens).


No shit, Sherlock.:thumb02:


----------



## Machida Karate

Soojooko said:


> MMA math in full effect.



:confused02::confused02::confused02:


----------



## rabakill

This whole fight will come down to Hardy's takedown defence. Standing he has a chance, now we see if he made the same mistake as Marquardt. I am really interested to see how smart Hardy is coming into this fight.


----------



## Choke_Wire

if dan goes after gsp and dosn't stand and get taken down he will get this.........YES.


----------



## Indestructibl3

Personally I'm going to be disappointed if I see GSP finish Hardy in the first round. He fights twice (or 3x) a year so I wanna watch him fight and destroy someone for at least 15mins.


----------



## vandalian

*St. Pierre to answer Hardy's trash talk with fists at UFC 111*



> *ST-PIERRE TO ANSWER HARDY'S TRASH TALK WITH FISTS AT UFC 111*
> The Canadian Press
> 3/10/2010 6:57:55 PM
> 
> ONTREAL -- UFC welterweight champion Georges St-Pierre says his opponents' trash talk has always fuelled his fire in the Octagon.
> 
> Lucky for him, the next man in line is as mouthy as they come.
> 
> England's Dan (The Outlaw) Hardy has already taken a few shots ahead of his bid for St-Pierre's welterweight title at UFC 111 on March 27 in Newark, N.J.
> 
> Hardy (23-6 with one no contest) started nipping at the Quebec-born mixed martial arts star back in November.
> 
> The clean-cut St-Pierre doesn't offer much of a target outside the cage so the 27-year-old Hardy, undefeated in his four UFC fights, has had to settle for calling the Canadian "boring."
> 
> Hardy has focused instead on how he believes he can score an upset win over St-Pierre.
> 
> "I know that I can give GSP hell when the times come," he said in an excerpted quote from Wednesday's first episode of a three-part TV series to promote the bout. The "UFC Primetime" show on Spike TV peeks behind the scenes as the combatants train for the fight.
> 
> "It's so sweet stepping out into the Octagon on the other side saying, 'I told you so,' " Hardy said.
> 
> "All these GSP fans that are betting the house on him, when they wake up Sunday morning . . . they aren't going to be too impressed with themselves."
> 
> GSP (19-2), a fan favourite who's dispatched most of the elite fighters in his 170-pound weight class, has largely been amused by Hardy. But he still plans to dispatch the brash Brit.
> 
> "Trash talk is not my thing, there is a line I will never cross," a bulked-up St-Pierre said in Montreal after a session of pounding his trainer's arm pads with heavy leg, elbow and knee blows.
> 
> "If he wants to cross the line then he's going to cross it alone and I'm going to answer back with my fists in the Octagon."
> 
> Hardy beat the likes of American Marcus (The Irish Hand Grenade) Davis and Mike (Quick) Swick to earn a shot at St-Pierre's belt.
> 
> Along the way, he did his best to get under his rivals' skin, calling Davis a "fake Irishman" among other things and giving Swick a "runner-up" trophy at the pre-fight news conference.
> 
> To the 28-year-old St-Pierre, who packed on seven pounds of muscle in advance of the fight, Hardy's words won't change anything that's going to play out in the cage.
> 
> "No matter what he said and no matter what I say, I'm going to go there and hit as hard as I can on his head, and he's going to do the same thing," he said.
> 
> St-Pierre was looking forward to watching the TV show, so he can channel Hardy's cocky remarks into motivation.
> 
> "I'm going to be able to watch it and see what he said about me -- I'm sure there's going to be a lot of interesting stuff," he said.
> 
> "It pumps me up."
> 
> St-Pierre said Hardy's European-style boxing, Muay Thai and improved ground-fighting skills make him the most dangerous opponent he's ever faced.
> 
> "He hits very hard . . . he's someone who can end a fight with one shot," St-Pierre said.
> 
> But the champion is counting on adding Hardy to his list of victims. He not only wants to take out Hardy, he wants to do it in style.
> 
> "I fight for myself, for a legacy," said St-Pierre.
> 
> St-Pierre, who's been mulling over whether to take a break from mixed martial arts to try out for the Canadian Olympic wrestling team, said he still has work left to cement his spot as one of the UFC's greatest.
> 
> Still, he hasn't ruled out an eventual push to crack the Olympic wrestling squad.
> 
> "It all depends on the outcomes of the next couple of fights," he said.
> 
> "I now have the money, the fame -- of course it comes with it -- the security, but I need to stay hungry and I like challenges, I like when people doubt me."
> 
> The UFC announced Wednesday the Prudential Center fight was a sellout.


http://www.tsn.ca/mma/story/?id=313369


----------



## Spec0688

I cannot wait for this fight!! GSP TKO round 2-3


----------



## G_Land

Im gonna sit back for a couple more days...Hardy kinda worries me


----------



## locnott

I think GSP takes it..jmo


----------



## vandalian

If Hardy beats St. Pierre, I'll be stunned.

And horrified.


----------



## munkie

Way to go Hardy. Talk some more shit. It seems to work against GSP. GSP wins by manslaughter (hopefully)


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

Would have been epic if he called GSP a fake frenchman. Oh well.


----------



## khoveraki

It's possible that Hardy beats GSP in this fight.



But if he does... in the rematch GSP will likely end Hardy's career IMO.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

Or he'll sit on top of him for 5 rounds like he intends to do in the first one.


----------



## LOJ

If Hardy does win, it would be right up there with the biggest upsets in UFC history.


----------



## The Horticulturist

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Or he'll sit on top of him for 5 rounds like he intends to do in the first one.


I thought you were way smarter than this by now. 

GSP puts the hurt on really, REALLY good fighters.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

Oh he outworks people for sure. But that's because his wrestling base is impossible to shrug off and he never gasses.

And the only really, REALLY good fighter he's fought in the last 2 years is BJ Penn, and that was in a weight class he has no business in. And no, Jon Fitch, Thiago Alves, Matt Hughes past his prime, and Matt Serra are not really, REALLY good fighters.


----------



## TViddy

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Oh he outworks people for sure. But that's because his wrestling base is impossible to shrug off and he never gasses.
> 
> And the only really, REALLY good fighter he's fought in the last 2 years is BJ Penn, and that was in a weight class he has no business in. And no, Jon Fitch, Thiago Alves, Matt Hughes past his prime, and Matt Serra are not really, REALLY good fighters.


You sir have smoked way too much crack today. Thats the truth. Fitch, Alvez and Hughes are/were good fighters. Also, GSP's base is not wrestling. Its Karate. 

Now go smoke some more crack :sarcastic12:


----------



## 1badmofo

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Oh he outworks people for sure. But that's because his wrestling base is impossible to shrug off and he never gasses.
> 
> And the only really, REALLY good fighter he's fought in the last 2 years is BJ Penn, and that was in a weight class he has no business in. And no, Jon Fitch, Thiago Alves, Matt Hughes past his prime, and Matt Serra are not really, REALLY good fighters.


Are you serious? With the exception of Matt Serra...all of them are/were really good fighters. but anyway..

GSP is a bad motherfucker in normal mode, Dan Hardy is pissing him off. I say GSP wins and cripples Dan Hardy...


----------



## Halebop

GSP and 7 more lbs of muscle???? RRRRRRR? What did he chop off to add 7 more lbs of muscle? 

I think money is safe on GSP for a 5 rd ud but I wont have any money on it. I still think Matt Serra was a much greater upset. Christ, Serra won his title shot on a reality tv show. 

Hardy would scare me if I was scared of GSP getting KO'd but actually I'm rooting pretty heavy for it. Even if you think GSP is the better boxer you have to be worried about about Hardy's power...it has been shown GSP can get knocked silly and Hardy could do it on a counter even if GSP's fist is on his face. It doesn't have to be a clean punch. 

WAR HARDY!


----------



## swpthleg

Halebop said:


> GSP and 7 more lbs of muscle???? RRRRRRR? What did he chop off to add 7 more lbs of muscle?
> 
> I think money is safe on GSP for a 5 rd ud but I wont have any money on it. I still think Matt Serra was a much greater upset. Christ, Serra won his title shot on a reality tv show.
> 
> Hardy would scare me if I was scared of GSP getting KO'd but actually I'm rooting pretty heavy for it. Even if you think GSP is the better boxer you have to be worried about about Hardy's power...it has been shown GSP can get knocked silly and Hardy could do it on a counter even if GSP's fist is on his face. It doesn't have to be a clean punch.
> 
> WAR HARDY!


He just added it to the existing awesome.

GSP by UD, and OMG WAIT, GSP might wrestle for 5 rounds??? NO WAI!!! UR KIDDING!! 

The magnitude of visionary in this thread is slaying me!


----------



## G_Land

Bahahaha Zing!!!!


----------



## LOJ

Georges would be very upset with himself if this goes all five rounds, he wants to finish Hardy.


----------



## Toxic

Halebop said:


> Hardy would scare me if I was scared of GSP getting KO'd but actually I'm rooting pretty heavy for it. Even if you think GSP is the better boxer you have to be worried about about Hardy's power...it has been shown GSP can get knocked silly and Hardy could do it on a counter even if GSP's fist is on his face. It doesn't have to be a clean punch.
> 
> WAR HARDY!


Hardy's power does not scare me in the slightest. Serra at least had a killer instinct, Hardy when he hurt Swick didn't capitalize in the slightest instead he pushed him against the cage in one of the worst TD attempts ever, he allowed Swick to recover on more than one occasion. It would be nothing short of a miracle if Hardy hurt GSP but if he gets that chance it will only be once and I am not convinced Hardy would be able to capitalize.


----------



## Soojooko

Toxic said:


> Hardy's power does not scare me in the slightest. Serra at least had a killer instinct, Hardy when he hurt Swick didn't capitalize in the slightest instead he pushed him against the cage in one of the worst TD attempts ever, he allowed Swick to recover on more than one occasion. It would be nothing short of a miracle if Hardy hurt GSP but if he gets that chance it will only be once and I am not convinced Hardy would be able to capitalize.


I'm a Hardy fan and agree with this. Ive said it before several times : Hardy not unloading on Swick when he had him rocked was the most telling thing Hardy has ever done. I'm not suggesting that he doesn't have a killer instinct, but on the evidence of that fight he certainly *seems* lacking in that department. If Hardy has GSP rocked at any stage and doesn't capitalize then he doesn't deserve anything let alone the belt. If you get a tiny opportunity against GSP and dont take it, then you dont deserve to be in there full stop. I'm hoping the Swick thing was a blip as I've seen Hardy fight with much more aggression before. Heres hoping for a great fight.


----------



## joe davola

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Oh he outworks people for sure. But that's because his wrestling base is impossible to shrug off and he never gasses.
> 
> And the only really, REALLY good fighter he's fought in the last 2 years is BJ Penn, and that was in a weight class he has no business in. And no, Jon Fitch, Thiago Alves, Matt Hughes past his prime, and Matt Serra are not really, REALLY good fighters.


your an idiot but gsp can't finish anyone who isn't a glorifed LW
he "rear naked trigged" trigg and subbed hughes who has never had great sub defence and tko'd hieron early on are the only exceptions

he Gnp sherk,serra and bj who have a serious size disadvantage

but he is rightfully in the position people have him im


----------



## vaj3000

Im sorry Mr Hardy but its not only the GSP nuthuggers that think its gonna be GSP by absolute ****.

Poor guy is in for a world of pain


----------



## Mirage445

joe davola said:


> your an idiot but gsp can't finish anyone who isn't a glorifed LW
> he "rear naked trigged" trigg and subbed hughes who has never had great sub defence and tko'd hieron early on are the only exceptions
> 
> he Gnp sherk,serra and bj who have a serious size disadvantage
> 
> but he is rightfully in the position people have him im


Here's the problem I have with posts like these... GSP seems lightyears ahead of these fighters, it does not make them shitty fighters, it just makes GSP that much better of a fighter.

I guess all the MW that Anderson has faced are shitty fighers too since he blew through them?

How about all the LW BJ has beaten soundly? I guess they're bums too.

GSP is an ELITE figher and I can see him moving up to MW and dominating there.

But hey, I guess he gets a real test against Hardy right? 
That is unless he beats Hardy, in which case Hardy was probably just a bum.


----------



## Rauno

I see a second round TKO, with GSP winning.


----------



## machidaisgod

Does GSP have a mini-me? Is he trying to take over the world? He scares me in that picture...he looks evil.


----------



## Baby Jay D.

I voted GSP. I really want to see Hardy win by KO but it's impossible to pick against GSP.


----------



## Halebop

Gsp better be working his cardio which you know he is. His objective needs to be to get Hardy to the ground and work Hardy's body and grunt alot so that the ref will not even think about standing it back up. Like HHH! HHH! and thats just the sound GSP will make for the first 20 minutes of the fight. HHH! HHH! I hope Hardy catches him early on in the fight when the fight is still standing.
Again, if I had money on it, 5 rd safe UD for GSP. But the reason I can't put money on this fight, much like I couldn't put money on Penn v. Diego (easy money if your heart wasn't in it) is because my heart is in it and I really hope Hardy wins this fight...but I don't want money on it.....


----------



## swpthleg

There has been a continual struggle going on in my head for weeks.

I like Hardy. He's funny as hell ("I'm going to knock the fake tan off him" LMFAO), DOES have respectable skills even compared to GSP, and is heavy-handed. I love the puncher's chance.

However I am a GSP mark, as you may have noticed, so right now I'm at the point of "Please Georges, don't kill him too badly."


----------



## Atilak

The biggest upset in UFC history. Hardy via submission! raise01:


----------



## Soojooko

Atilak said:


> The biggest upset in UFC history. Hardy via submission! raise01:


That's more like it! A nice dose of ridiculous-ism to wake me up in the morning.

Rather than the endless drone of the plain obvious : "GSP is the biggest, bestest, largest, tightest, white-pants-wearingest, most skillful, super ninja man with titanium head and cardio of lion."

Yes. I know that. I might even agree if I was betting real money or we we're talking face to face.

But I'm not. This is the internet. I am Soojooko the ridiculous! I want amusement not sensible debate.

Hardy winning via something completely unexpected would rock. I did wonder if GSP would be ready if Hardy went for a double leg the instant the fight started...


----------



## pipe

I just hope it isn't a 5 rounder. Dont mind who wins as long as it gets 'finished'


----------



## joe davola

hardy via 1080 roundhouse kick to the throat


----------



## luckbox

I have a feeling GSP will try to end this by submission. My prediction is GSP by rear naked choke in the 3rd round, after laying on top of Hardy for most of the match.


----------



## Liddellianenko

Baron said:


> I use hatred to keep me sharp. I hate with a pure and perfect hatred. I hate false moral reasoning. I hate deception through ignorance. I hate when truth is ignored when it doesn't fit with a fool's moral presuppisitions. And I really hate the idea that George should move to 185 lbs. That's a bad move. George is in the perfect position. He dominates his division and only needs to continue to do so. He dominates fights, makes no mistakes, that's why his timing is perfect. He waits. But people say, "Rush St. Pierre! Rush In! Why doesn't he rush in there and throw more kicks and punches so he can knock more people out?" Only fools rush in. The greatest night in the lives of his opponents is the night they went the distance with the best in the world. George St. Pierre would be a fool to move to 185 and to support the idea is foolish. That's my hate-filled opinion!


Kind of a tangent but had to reply ... IMO hate is a double edged sword bro. I've fought with hate and I've fought with calm ... and while hate will give you some great and devastating short term results, you'll either burn out or lose to the calm surgeons eventually. 

Harnessing hate in your fighting will turn you into Ken Shamrock or Gilbert Yvel. Fighting with calm and precision will turn you into the likes of Fedor, GSP and Anderson. I know hate feels good and makes you feel like some kind of badass, but it's a double edged sword... just ask Ken Shamrock how it felt when douchebags like Ortiz made him eat his hate. Same thing outside fighting as well... it's one thing to recognize and dislike people's foolishness or ignorance or whatever, but hate is a whole different level. Just my two cents.


----------



## rabakill

Liddellianenko said:


> Kind of a tangent but had to reply ... IMO hate is a double edged sword bro. I've fought with hate and I've fought with calm ... and while hate will give you some great and devastating short term results, you'll either burn out or lose to the calm surgeons eventually.
> 
> Harnessing hate in your fighting will turn you into Ken Shamrock or Gilbert Yvel. Fighting with calm and precision will turn you into the likes of Fedor, GSP and Anderson. I know hate feels good and makes you feel like some kind of badass, but it's a double edged sword... just ask Ken Shamrock how it felt when douchebags like Ortiz made him eat his hate. Same thing outside fighting as well... it's one thing to recognize and dislike people's foolishness or ignorance or whatever, but hate is a whole different level. Just my two cents.


couldn't agree more, hate clouds your judgement, makes you tense, you are slower, less fluid, less intelligent. The only thing it does is make you more resistant to damage in the short term, I'd rather not get hit like Silva or Penn than come out looking like Ken Shamrock or Tank Abbott.


----------



## alizio

at least use better examples then Shamrock.....

it seems to work well for Rampage Jackson and Brock Lesnar.

its ironic that Shamrock is a submission guy who are supposedly known for being intelligent fighters.


----------



## Wookie

GSP is going to lay on him for like three rounds until he's tired. Then he's going to choke his a** out. Unless Hardy keeps talking smack then he might just beat him until it goes to a UD for GSP.


----------



## LOJ

GSP will be looking for the finish early. He wants a victory and he wants it in impressive fashion.

..or should I say: imbressive fashion.


----------



## coldcall420

LOJ said:


> I really don't see Dan Hardy tagging GSP with strikes, GSP has learned his lesson, and hes not the type of fighter that makes a stupid mistake twice.
> 
> Hardy has got to bring it right from the start and pressure GSP. If he thinks to long about what hes going to do, he'll be dominated by GSP's strength.
> 
> Hardy admitted that hes probably going to get taken down in the fight, but theres more to it then that. If you don't know if your going to be standing or being wrestled down to the mat then your striking is limited. It's easy enough to say it until you get in there and you have no idea what your opponent is going to do next.
> 
> I think that Hardy is going to fall to GSP's smarts as a fighter. He'll dominate Hardy in every aspect of martial arts, theres no question about it in my mind.
> 
> GSP is so driven, and so ready for anything that comes his way; period.
> 
> Hardy has got to KO him to win, only way because the longer the fight goes the better Georges becomes; we've seen it time and time again.
> 
> GSP via stoppage, round 2.


 
I think GSP will stand with hardy in this fight....


----------



## xeberus

Dan has grown on me.. But I thoroughly expect gsp to mangle him.


----------



## Skylaars

Mckeever said:


> Hmm maybe if you stand and trade for more than 20 seconds a round you might be able to finish your opponents George. Work it out.


You do know that there are other ways to end a fight, right?


----------



## Atilak

I look at logic of GSP nuthuggers and its scary!

Serra TKOed him so it never happen again! GSP doesnt make same mistake twice.

Hughes submited him. Same rule.

Hardy have to win by decision! UD by octagon control from back! I hope Cecil Peoples will judge it :cheeky4:


----------



## Mckeever

If hardy wants to stand a chance of winning this fight he has to be the agressor from the word go. He has to be in GSP face, using his boxing and combinations in and out. He cant allow GSP to pick him apart with his kickboxing and work his angles and then set up take downs. He has to be extremely aggressive in a controlled way and really bring it to GSP.


----------



## aerius

If Dan changes his name to Matt I'd be worried, guys named Matt have a 100% winning record in their first fight against GSP. But as long as Dan Hardy keeps his first name, the odds are seriously against him since nobody not named Matt has been able to beat GSP.


----------



## Zenhalo

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Would have been epic if he called GSP a fake frenchman. Oh well.


Actually that would be a compliment.


----------



## punchbag

vandalian said:


> http://www.tsn.ca/mma/story/?id=313369


To be fair to Hardy I think a lot of his trash talking is as much a part of his game plan as his fight training.I don't think it's personal, and feel that it may have got him a few wins that he maybe wouldn't have got if he wasn't able to rattle his opponent a bit pre fight, for example Marcus Davis was obviously pissed at Hardy to name one. Whether this will work against G.S.P I doubt it, but if you were fighting someone of his class wouldn't you be tempted to try anything legal.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Tonight the german sports televison showed Dan Hardy's way to GSP with all his fights. And I have to say it again, it would be a miracle to see him survive the third round.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

I love the logic of how much GSP is pissed, the more likely the fight will be finished early.

People..the only way this fight ends in anything but a decision is if Hardy tko's GSP. That's all. Let's just quit pretending that how much GSP will be will determine at what time he finishes the fight.


----------



## swpthleg

I don't see, nor did I suggest, a positive correlation in that regard.

But I'm so happy you love that other people did.


----------



## Franco

I'm really anticipating this one. Don't know why, but have a feeling it's going to be an awesome, fast paced battle. I'm going with the favorite, but Hardy does look impressive. Can't wait!


----------



## BobbyCooper

You really can't deny, that the UFC is great in exaggerate a guy like Dan Hardy.


----------



## tommydaone

ESPN in the UK just had an advert for this event

Was along the lines of: "Can Unbeaten English Sensation Dan Hardy beat Georges St. Pierre?"

If that is anything to go by, yes he can


----------



## coldcall420

BobbyCooper said:


> You really can't deny, that the UFC is great in exaggerate a guy like Dan Hardy.


 
I like the Kata's hardy was doing at The Shoalin Temple in the 2nd preview.....Im also curious why GSP doesnt seem to be working his stand up too much???

http://www.mmamania.com/2010/3/18/1379316/ufc-primetime-video-for-st-pierre

Around the 3 min mark of the 2nd vid.....


----------



## BobbyCooper

Yea CC I loved that part  This is the kind of stuff I am really into^^ 

I think they just didn't showed GSP's striking like they didn't showed much of Hardys work at his TDD. But in his mind, GSP knows already like we do that he is the better striker^^


----------



## LOJ

I respect anyone who gets in there and throws down, but generally the more skilled fighter wins the fight, and you can't help but think that GSP has the more tools coming into the fight. 

However, like Dan Hardy said the other night: " you can't build/grow muscles in you chin "

That's true, and if Hardy hits GSP clean; he will fall. Nobody is invincible, if your hit cleanly; your night is over. 

I think that GSP's experience with being champion, getting knocked out, and rising above when it mattered most is what makes him one of the best in the world. 

I won't be disapointed in GSP either way, win or loss. He's coming into this fight 120%, and that's what matters most.


----------



## coldcall420

BobbyCooper said:


> Yea CC I loved that part  This is the kind of stuff I am really into^^
> 
> I think they just didn't showed GSP's striking like they didn't showed much of Hardys work at his TDD. But in his mind, GSP knows already like we do that he is the better striker^^


 
Well like I said for some reason I think GSP will trade with him....I hope he does...:thumbsup:


----------



## BobbyCooper

I think he will! I call a second round TKO/KO we might don't even see a ground fight at all.

I think GSP will prove something to shut down even his last critics by beating Hardy on his feet.


----------



## No_Mercy

Man everybody seems to forget that GSP was a TKO champ. This guy in his earlier career was taking punches, kicks and dishing em out. Yah...Serra did a number, but at the same tolkien it's always been his style to GNP + it is MMA. 

Every KO that Hardy did was a counter or hook, which certainly makes him dangerous. Take that out of the equation and I'd bet a large sum on GSP. But because he has that KO power it's what makes the fight interesting cuz he can end it anytime...same reason why we watch any other dangerous striker.

Overall I don't see Hardy with the fluidity and combos that GSP has. Watch his strikes they come from all different directions; up down, etc. Leg kick, inside leg kick, then fakes leg kick into a sweep ala Matt Hughes, reverse side kick, goes into a super punch then finishes off with a leg kick combo, jabs, into take downs. He has a wide array of arsenals. 

If and when GSP can add that KO power, only then would he be able to match up with Anderson Silva. For now he wears down his opponents, but he does it so well.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

No_Mercy said:


> Man everybody seems to forget that GSP was a TKO champ. This guy in his earlier career was taking punches, kicks and dishing em out. Yah...Serra did a number, but at the same tolkien it's always been his style to GNP + it is MMA.
> 
> Every KO that Hardy did was a counter or hook, which certainly makes him dangerous. Take that out of the equation and I'd bet a large sum on GSP. But because he has that KO power it's what makes the fight interesting cuz he can end it anytime...same reason why we watch any other dangerous striker.
> 
> Overall I don't see Hardy with the fluidity and combos that GSP has. Watch his strikes they come from all different directions; up down, etc. Leg kick, inside leg kick, then fakes leg kick into a sweep ala Matt Hughes, reverse side kick, goes into a super punch then finishes off with a leg kick combo, jabs, into take downs. He has a wide array of arsenals.
> 
> If and when GSP can add that KO power, only then would he be able to match up with Anderson Silva. For now he wears down his opponents, but he does it so well.


Fully agreed. Prime time said he's added over 10 pounds to his frame for this fight. Athletes of this level can add on 10-30 pounds of muscle at will (look at Frank Mir).

With that being said... I believe that the GSP Hardy fight and Silva Mai fight were intentionally set to built up the GSP Silva superfight. I hope I'm wrong, but it just seems that both Silva and GSP are going to win so convincingly that it will draw a much bigger crowd when they actually fight. Just my two cents.


----------



## joe davola

i hope hardy is training hard because GSP IS PISSED


----------



## coldcall420

joe davola said:


> i hope hardy is training hard because GSP IS PISSED


 
Why is GSP pissed??


----------



## joe davola

because of the trash talking


----------



## LOJ

If GSP was able to wear Silva down then that reduces Silva's KO power.


----------



## joe davola

No_Mercy said:


> If and when GSP can add that KO power, only then would he be able to match up with Anderson Silva. For now he wears down his opponents, but he does it so well.


you can't just add ko power sure you can get stronger and lift more weights but your either born a puncher or not


----------



## HitOrGetHit

joe davola said:


> you can't just add ko power sure you can get stronger and lift more weights but your either born a puncher or not


I really don't buy into the theory that if you weren't gifted natural KO power that you can never develop into a KO puncher.


----------



## BobbyCooper

HitOrGetHit said:


> I really don't buy into the theory that if you weren't gifted natural KO power that you can never develop into a KO puncher.


In my mind Hit everybody can be kocked out and can knock out somebody if he gets hit, or hit's the right spot. The temple is not invincible..


----------



## coldcall420

joe davola said:


> you can't just add ko power sure you can get stronger and lift more weights but your either born a puncher or not


 
This is totally not true.....AT ALL...Hell why do Muay Thai fighters kick tree's repeatedly...to strengthen their bones so they hit harder......whoa!!!!

You can 100% absolutely be taught to hit harder.....and develop more power in your strikes.....


----------



## joe davola

coldcall420 said:


> This is totally not true.....AT ALL...Hell why do Muay Thai fighters kick tree's repeatedly...to strengthen their bones so they hit harder......whoa!!!!
> 
> You can 100% absolutely be taught to hit harder.....and develop more power in your strikes.....


thats legs not arms

sean sherk is a perfect example he has extremely strong legs but weak hands and the guy is a S&C machine who has been working on his hands extensively


----------



## coldcall420

joe davola said:


> thats legs not arms
> 
> sean sherk is a perfect example he has extremely strong legs but weak hands and the guy is a S&C machine who has been working on his hands extensively


 
No...its forearms as well and also in Karate guys are taught to do knuckle push up's to strengthen the bones in their hands(knuckles) so upon impact the blow is harder......

Every bone has what is called trebeculi in the middle, this is like webbing that strengthens bone, the more impact to an area the amount of trebeculi increases and strengthens the bones....stronger bones in your hands are going to lead to more powerful blows....My knuckles are as flat as a 4th grade school girl.....yrs of knuckle push ups and bare knuckle striking.....taught early by my Tae Kwon Do Sensei....:thumbsup:


----------



## joe davola

i know it's forearms but you don't mention it when referring to punching


----------



## coldcall420

joe davola said:


> i know it's forearms but you don't mention it when referring to punching


 
Right which is why I took the time to point out the trebeculi and the bare knuckle push ups and the fact that mine for example are flat.....they weren't that way when I was born.......its from repeatedly punching tree's, poles, heavy bags with no wraps.....it's something that takes time but def can lead to HEAVY HANDS.....heavier than a person may have had in the past.....google this if you dont believe me.....:thumbsup:


----------



## jdun11

I like both fighters. Hardy has a swagga about him that he carries to the cage that will help him mentally against GSP. Goiong into orouond one Hardy will truly believe he has a shot at victory.

But after Hardy feels GSP's stregnth and relentless top game, he is gonna lose all his confidence and start to slowly wilt. Hardy doesnt have the bjj or guard that Alves has and I dont see him being able to protect himself as well as Thiago. 

GSP is just a nightmare opponent for Hardy. Dan is a very tough guy, but GSP is a a couple levels above him. Look for GSP to finish a tired and beaten Hardy in the 3rd round.

This fight is goiong to be GSP's most dominant to date.

Whatever the line is, GSP isnt the big enough of a favorite. This is a different guy that goot in the Octogon with Matt Serra. This guy is a wrecking machine.


----------



## towwffc

*GSP/Hardy Keys to Victory...*

http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=news.detail&gid=79464



> Hardy’s task is by no means impossible. It’s just an unbelievably difficult one.
> 
> If he wants to leave New Jersey with the title strapped around his waist, he will need to fight a near perfect fight because he doesn’t appear to have any advantages over the champion on paper at least. The first step toward fighting the perfect fight is to keep the action on the feet.
> 
> GSP is without peers in terms of his ability to seamlessly transition from striking to wrestling. That ability makes him an exponentially more effective in both facets of the game because his opponents are constantly off balance wondering whether a strike or a takedown is coming next. Hardy needs to find a way to dictate to the champion where the fight will unfold, rather than solely trying to react to and defend against GSP’s tactics.
> 
> The best way to prevent GSP from controlling the action is to back him up with strikes and then circle out of harm’s way. Accordingly, Hardy should immediately take the center of the Octagon when the referee signals for the action to begin. GSP fights from a traditional kickboxing stance and loves to lead with the jab. Hardy needs to beat him to the jab by firing first, firing straight and quickly snapping back his left hand to protect against counter rights.
> 
> He should mix up the rhythm of his jab—single jabs followed by a half step to the left, double jabs followed by an outside leg or a traditional one-two combination. The key is to keep changing up the attack and then stepping just out of reach so that GSP cannot time his counters.
> 
> BJ Penn did just that in the first round of his fight with GSP at UFC 58 and appeared to be easily winning the fight through the first several minutes of action. Penn was so effective pumping jabs and lead right hands and then changing the angle of his attack that GSP struggled to get into a rhythm. Hardy can do the same thing.
> 
> The challenger should be careful not to fall in love with his own handiwork if he finds early success on the feet. GSP is very good at stepping through a punch and forcing a clinch. Hardy does not want to find himself in that situation because it will either lead to GSP walking him to the fence and controlling him in that position or the champion taking him to the canvas. Either way, Hardy will find himself at a disadvantage and thus his odds of winning will rapidly diminish.
> 
> If GSP is successful taking the action to the ground, Hardy must not waste time trying to work his rubber guard. Sure, he is a brown belt in Eddie Bravo’s Tenth Planet Jiu-Jitsu. Brown belt-level jiu-jitsu isn’t enough to counter GSP’s ground control or ground-and-pound attack. Hardy should therefore look to scramble back to his feet at all costs if the fight hits the ground. He should rely on his solid submission defense to keep himself out of a fight-ending hold, but again, Hardy should avoid playing the guard game and take risks to scramble back to his feet where he is at his best.
> 
> Another thing that Hardy should forget on Saturday night is the knockout. This kid is a really big puncher. If he keeps touching GSP with right hands or left hooks, he will win by knockout. If he tries to win by one-punch knockout, then he will end up winding up on his shots, which will give GSP plenty of warning as to what is coming. Thus, the champion will likely be able to avoid the telegraphed shots and counter with either big right hands or explosive double-leg takedowns, both of which could permanently alter the momentum of the fight.
> 
> The notable exception to that rule is if Hardy can goad GSP into wild exchanges. The Brit has an exceptional chin and very real punching power. He can rely on those two things during ferocious exchanges. Sure, he might get knocked out for the first time in his career, but he will have the best opportunity to score a knockout of his own if GSP plants his feet and fires recklessly.
> 
> Although Hardy’s key to victory is keeping the fight on the feet, that doesn’t mean that he will have an easy time striking with GSP. The UFC welterweight champion is an extremely versatile striker. He is a Kyokushin karate expert, which is a full-contact martial art designed for actual street combat. That is why GSP possesses both boxer-like hands and elite kicks that he fires with excellent speed and power.
> 
> There is little doubt that he feels confident standing with Hardy. It is all but certain that GSP’s game plan will be to come out and strike with Hardy early in the fight. Nonetheless, the best part of GSP’s game, as previously mentioned, is that he blends his striking skills seamlessly with his wrestling, which leaves opponents vulnerable to both.
> 
> GSP can completely take Hardy out of his game by making him stress over defending the takedown. He can do that by shooting for a double-leg takedown during his opening salvo. GSP shouldn’t worry much about whether he is successful with that first takedown attempt. Even if he is unsuccessful, it will serve as a vivid reminder that wrestling is a big part of GSP’s game. Moreover, if Hardy is able to defend an initial takedown attempt, he may grow a bit overconfident in his sprawl-and-brawl abilities, which will make it that much easier for GSP to take him down shortly thereafter.
> 
> Once the action hits the floor, GSP, who doesn’t have a formal wrestling background, should be able to control and punish Hardy. That is something that nobody else has been able to do in the UFC to date, but again, GSP isn’t just another fighter. In fact, he isn’t just another wrestler, either. Some say he’s got the goods to compete for a spot on the Canadian National wrestling team.
> 
> That seems crazy, but GSP is a special athlete.
> 
> On the feet, GSP’s keys are very similar to Hardy’s—everything starts with the jab, though he will be less concerned with circling and probably more focused on walking down his opponent.
> 
> GSP’s jab is the best in the division—bar none. He jackhammers opponents with it because he snaps it with deep conviction and, as is the key for Hardy, continually changes up the rhythm of his jab. He fires it standalone, doubles it up, mixes it with lots of different combinations, and, of course, uses it as a distraction to quickly change levels and shoot in for a takedown.
> 
> The only problem is that he occasionally leaves his jab hanging just a bit after doubling up on it, particularly in the middle and later rounds. Hardy absolutely must focus on that and be ready to counter with a lights-out right hand each time GSP double taps him.
> 
> GSP doesn’t need to circle because he isn’t worried about being taken down, but he does need to move his upper body side to side while attacking in order to avoid destructive counter fire. GSP doesn’t want to get into a slugfest with his more explosive foe, but he does want to pepper him on the feet and keep him moving backwards.
> 
> At the end of the day, this is a fight that is GSP’s to lose. He has far more weapons in his arsenal and seamlessly blends those weapons in a way that few others can match. Once the action gets underway, it will be readily apparent to Hardy that he has never faced or sparred with a fighter of GSP’s caliber.
> 
> At least, that is what the world believes based on each man’s career in the Octagon to date. Maybe Hardy is an unrefined diamond just waiting to break free of the excess rock. Maybe he is a champion in waiting. Maybe he is Serra Part II and will shock the sporting world with the biggest MMA upset of 2010 to date.


I find it interesting to read these breakdowns. It makes everything sound so simple, even though the actual techniques used in MMA are usually more complex than most realize. I'm very curious to see how Hardy really does go about trying to win this fight. Will he pretty much try to do the same as he has always done? Or will he follow a specicific plan, and if so how specific?


----------



## cdtcpl

I find it funny that GSP's last 3 fight break downs have been almost the same, they just replace the name of the fighter he is fighting. Hardy needs to find lightning in a bottle but not let GSP see it coming. I think Hardy has the power to do it, but I see him fighting the same game everyone else is, overwhelming wrestling. I was yelling for Alves to start throwing knees when GSP was going for take downs, and he started doing it later in the fight but it was too late to matter. Hardy's best chance to quick KO GSP is to be ready with some quick uppercuts and accept the TD but throw bombs while it happens. Chances are he will get so caught up in trying to defend it that he will end up on his back with 0 KO chances.

Hardy honestly needs to strike with reckless abandon, accept the TD's but punish GSP for it. I still think the fight ends rd 4 TKO by GSP. I just don't think Hardy has the gas tank to go 5 full rounds with GSP.


----------



## khoveraki

Just while we're mentioning Hardy and five rounds...


GSP has only gone to decision four times in the last four years. And it was injured against the #3 WW in Alves, against the #2 unfinishable WW in Fitch, The Prodigy (who he's also finished in that same amount of time), and Koscheck.

Hardy is getting TKO'd, period. If he takes this to decision he's a top 5 WW, and he aint.


----------



## MikeHawk

Hardy has no chance in hell of winning. Where does this notion that he has amazing KO power come from? The dudes no Shane Carwin here because atleast Shane has the record to back it up. Hardy's gone to 3 decisions in his UFC career with only 1 KO over Rory Markham. How does that equal KO power at all?

Jesus, the UFC is getting to damn good at hyping up fighters into something they're not. Hardcore fans are even starting to buy into it. It's ridiculous.

What makes anyone think he can KO GSP when he couldn't put Swick, Gono, or Davis away. Hell, two of those 3 fights were split decisions as well.

If Marcus Davis can keep Hardy on the ground then just imagine what GSP is gonna do to this guy. It's gonna be insta-buttrape.


----------



## Rationalist

Only way GSP will lose is if he pulls a Serra. If it goes past the first round GSP has no chance of losing. 

Hardy is going to have to go for broke in the first round. Maybe charging GSP at the beginning of the round to catch him off guard.


----------



## rabakill

jdun11 said:


> I like both fighters. Hardy has a swagga about him that he carries to the cage that will help him mentally against GSP. Goiong into orouond one Hardy will truly believe he has a shot at victory.
> 
> But after Hardy feels GSP's stregnth and relentless top game, he is gonna lose all his confidence and start to slowly wilt. Hardy doesnt have the bjj or guard that Alves has and I dont see him being able to protect himself as well as Thiago.
> 
> GSP is just a nightmare opponent for Hardy. Dan is a very tough guy, but GSP is a a couple levels above him. Look for GSP to finish a tired and beaten Hardy in the 3rd round.
> 
> This fight is goiong to be GSP's most dominant to date.
> 
> Whatever the line is, GSP isnt the big enough of a favorite. This is a different guy that goot in the Octogon with Matt Serra. This guy is a wrecking machine.


I have this feeling, this weird feeling, that GSP won't necessarily lose, but Hardy is not going to be the pushover people think. The whole goofball arrogant thing seems like a ploy to get GSP overconfident, watching Dan Hardy train and seeing his history I have to say I think he has a better chance than people are giving him.


----------



## attention

joe davola said:


> thats legs not arms
> 
> sean sherk is a perfect example he has extremely strong legs but weak hands and the guy is a S&C machine who has been working on his hands extensively


sean sherk is a bad example, hes spent decades building grapplers muscle strength/technique.
His muscle memory is tuned more for long lasting crushing strength/endurance.... versus explosive fast hip/weight shifts used to throw powerful strikes. 

IMHO, there will be people with a genetic predisposition to be strikers, but these people still must be taught. While others not born with it may still learn the technique, but might not ever be superior comparatively.


----------



## attention

rabakill said:


> I have this feeling, this weird feeling, that GSP won't necessarily lose, but Hardy is not going to be the pushover people think. The whole goofball arrogant thing seems like a ploy to get GSP overconfident, _*watching Dan Hardy train *_and seeing his history I have to say I think he has a better chance than people are giving him.


yeah, i got that feeling too by watching the fight buildup promos... but keep in mind, thats why they made those promos... to make it seems like either fighter can take it, that the fight can go either way _easily_.

IMHO, GSP still takes this... I would say 85% GSP - 15% Hardy... but thats just my GSP nuthuggin self


----------



## alizio

attention said:


> yeah, i got that feeling too by watching the fight buildup promos... but keep in mind, thats why they made those promos... to make it seems like either fighter can take it, that the fight can go either way _easily_.
> 
> IMHO, GSP still takes this... I would say 85% GSP - 15% Hardy... but thats just my GSP nuthuggin self


 15%? u sound like a Hardy fan lol


----------



## munkie

Hardy's keys to victory are..., 1. Load up, close your eyes and hope to land a lucky punch. 2. Bribe GSP prefight. 

Hardy has no chance. If I thought GSP would do anything otherthan wrestle, then I'd bet against Hardy making it out of the first round. But, GSP will take Hardy down and control and GnP him for probably 3, maybe 4 rounds, causing Hardy to give up and not leave his stool after the 4th round break.


----------



## Indestructibl3

Summary of this thread: 
> GSP - wrestle. 
> Hardy - Serra.

Not my opinion but that's what it will turn into.

Mt thoughts: GSP will outstrike Hardy, outgrapple Hardy, and outperform Hardy en route to a 2/3 round TKO.


----------



## No_Mercy

I expect a war, but with GSP showcasing some new tools and dictating the pace of the fight on every level. With his constant takedowns and GNP it's wears you out. Hoping though he shows the world that he can outstrike Hardy a full round at least without taking it to the mat. 

Hardy is an entertaining bastard, but I hope GSP shuts him up...lolz. If you guys saw MMA connect tonight they showed various fighters pick. Everyone including MATT SERRA straight up said GSP. Now aint that funny seeing that Hardy trained with em...


----------



## Atilak

Im really looking forward to see some homeless GSP fans :thumb02:


----------



## BobbyCooper

attention said:


> yeah, i got that feeling too by watching the fight buildup promos... but keep in mind, thats why they made those promos... to make it seems like either fighter can take it, that the fight can go either way _easily_.
> 
> IMHO, GSP still takes this... I would say 85% GSP - 15% Hardy... but thats just my GSP nuthuggin self


15% ?? lol thats serious Hardy nuthuggin^^ :laugh:


----------



## T.Bone

coldcall420 said:


> This is totally not true.....AT ALL...Hell why do Muay Thai fighters kick tree's repeatedly...to strengthen their bones so they hit harder......whoa!!!!
> 
> You can 100% absolutely be taught to hit harder.....and develop more power in your strikes.....


It's not really so they can kick harder, that's all developed through technique and core strength training. They kick banana tree's to toughen their legs and shins.


----------



## Toxic

Hardy's key to victory is something like this..











He is hoping to survive long enough to see GSP do that.


----------



## Indestructibl3

Wow, 17-18% for Hardy - never would've guessed that much.


----------



## Indestructibl3

Holy shit ^^^^ lol


----------



## AceofSpades187

Toxic said:


> Hardy's key to victory is something like this..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is hoping to survive long enough to see GSP do that.


I just had to click this thread around lunch time there goes my apitite:thumbsdown:


----------



## rabakill

alizio said:


> 15%? u sound like a Hardy fan lol


well seeing as the bookies are putting it at 8:1 it's not really that far from the official betting odds on the fight.


----------



## looney liam

*how would the UK react if HARDY pulls off the upset?*

MMA has totally exploded into the UK over the past few years, which can be thanked which UFC has played a huge part in. without all the hype surrounding the likes of bisping, TUF: UK vs USA, and the good few events that have been put on over the last few years there'd be none of the affliction shirt wearing 'badasses' you see on a regular basis in your local bars and town centers.

in England we'll only pay attention to sports were good at (and football :thumb02 when we won the rugby world cup it got alot of attention, same with cricket and the ashes. 

so if hardy were to win title do you think everyone would hop on the mma bandwagon? would he become as popular as our best boxers such as hatton or khan?

i've not heard many people talking about him right now, but im sure it'll be all over the media the next day if he did win.


----------



## LjStronge

It won't be that big of a deal over here.

For us MMA fans, it will be immense, and we won't stop talking about it for months, let alone the fact that we will take over the MMAForum smack talk section IMMEDIATELY!

We''ll all rant and rave about it and we'll tell our non MMA fan mates and yes, they may become interested, but the sport will not go mainstream because of it. 

Garath A Davies and the News of the world will run a bigger story on it and it will garner attention, but a lot of people know NOTHING about the sport at all yet.

It's not as if the sport is known a little and people will take interest because the UK have a champion, it's not known AT ALL by some people, therefore they will see is like they see Curling or some other random sport!! lol

Basically, I reckon a couple of hardcore uk boxing fans will cross over or at least pick it up, and our mates might take interest, but no, I don't think that MMA is all of a sudden explode because Hardy is the champ


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

I don't get the impression that Hardy is that big of a deal in England. I could be wrong, but the English tend to know a good fighter when they see one and Hardy just isn't top shelf. I see it being like if Audley won the Heavyweight boxing title. The Brits would know that it would only be a matter of time before he lost it. The best thing going for Hardy is that he is not an idiot like Audley. 

When GSP beat Hughes the first time, it was big in Canada. Not gold medal hockey game big, but still, I recall the party spilling out on the streets from the bars where I live. GSP had a slower rise to fame and by the time he fought Hughes and won everyone knew he was it. Hardy got fast tracked to a title shot.

Good luck to Hardy, but I think he still has a long way to go in the UFC.


----------



## Rusko

They would scream and whine why GSP lost.


----------



## edlavis88

It's a shame but it wouldn't make a whole lot of impact in itself, MMA in the UK has boomed this year and it's pretty amazing that papers like the independent are even covering it at all. Wierdly enough I think UFC undisputed is responsible for bringing in a lot of new fans. Hardy is a funny guy and has the potential to really drive MMA's popularity up in the UK but I don't expect anything that happens on sat to change opinions drastically.


----------



## xeberus

I for one would have to use a cro bar to disengage my raging *excitement* for the brit. :thumb02:


----------



## CharlieZ

that would be pretty cool if hardy wins. I mean matt serra done it why cant hardy


----------



## mickkelly12

Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish people probably wouldnt really care (except Dan Hardy Fans obviously). But a lot more English would definitely watch MMA if one of their countrymen was the champ.


----------



## CharlieZ

im rooting for dan hardy


----------



## 6toes

It would be just the confidence boost they needed to start reclaiming the colonies! :thumb02:

I kid. I can see Hardy becoming a huge fan favorite in the UK but like LjStronge said, it probably won't be enough for us to see a big surge in popularity for MMA as a whole. Of course I'm not from the UK so I don't have much background to go off of. 

A more likely scenario I think would be that MMA will start growing more rapidly in popularity with a British champion, and if Hardy were to pull off a couple successful title defenses then MMA would receive some huge public awareness.


----------



## Toxic

I have better odds of winning the Saturday night lottery than Hardy does of winning that belt.


----------



## CharlieZ

Toxic said:


> I have better odds of winning the Saturday night lottery than Hardy does of winning that belt.


haha u think its like that? Come On hardy has a chance In an MMA fight anything can happen


----------



## GKY

Well here in Sunderland every time one of my non MMA friends sees me watching MMA on my laptop they ask me if its pro wrestling.. so I don't think it will be a big deal. Really, the only people I know that even know what MMA is are the guys in my BJJ school, bouncers and fighters. Outside of that, the best you'll get is telling someone its "cage fighting", which makes them think of the whole no rules thing or gay men hugging :S


----------



## swpthleg

GKY said:


> Well here in Sunderland every time one of my non MMA friends sees me watching MMA on my laptop they ask me if its pro wrestling.. so I don't think it will be a big deal. Really, the only people I know that even know what MMA is are the guys in my BJJ school, bouncers and fighters. Outside of that, the best you'll get is telling someone its "cage fighting", which makes them think of the whole no rules thing or gay men hugging :S


How did that get going, anyway? The English press referring to it as "cage fighting, otherwise known as mixed martial arts"? ,even after Rosi Sexton politely pointed out that it's the wrong way round. 

That drives me batshit.

What would happen in the UK? It would be one of the greatest upsets in UFC history, even if many viewers were figuring that out retroactively.


----------



## UFCFAN89

xeberus said:


> I for one would have to use a cro bar to disengage my raging *excitement* for the brit. :thumb02:


----------



## punchbag

6toes said:


> It would be just the confidence boost they needed to start reclaiming the colonies! :thumb02:
> 
> I kid. I can see Hardy becoming a huge fan favorite in the UK but like LjStronge said, it probably won't be enough for us to see a big surge in popularity for MMA as a whole. Of course I'm not from the UK so I don't have much background to go off of.
> 
> A more likely scenario I think would be that MMA will start growing more rapidly in popularity with a British champion, and if Hardy were to pull off a couple successful title defenses then MMA would receive some huge public awareness.[/QUOT
> 
> I am from U.K and this is how I see it going if Hardy becomes champion.
> The average man on the street will maybe hear of mma a bit more, may even recognise Dan Hardy from pictures,but a bit like a cyclist winning in the olympics, they'd be like oh thats cool, wheres the football(soccer) stars etc.
> On the whole I don't think a lot will change say after a year or two down the line as I think it will reach a certain level of popularity and stay there,it will be of similar popularity to wwe events,as it hasn't taken off on a massive scale in U.K, as we have seen with Cage Rage and other events based in U.k, which always played second fiddle to UFC events, although they put on some great fights.
> I feel any events will just serve as breeding grounds for future fighters who will move on when reaching a certain level,out of necessity due to money and competition just like Hardy,Bisping,phillips,Etim,Daley,Taylor,P.kelly,Freeman,
> Weir etc have done previously.
> I think any possible future champion wont get the recognition they deserve in our mainstream media that say a Joe Calzaghe,David Haye or Ricky Hatton would get although they'd be a hero in the British mma community as something to aspire to although everyone loves G.S.P.


----------



## khoveraki

6toes said:


> It would be just the confidence boost they needed to start reclaiming the colonies! :thumb02:



How coincidental, that's got an equally likely chance of succeeding as Hardy does on Sunday. :thumbsup:


----------



## adobostreak

*The two most likely ways GSP/Hardy fight will end on Saturday*

Scenario 1
GSP is going to take hardy to the ground immediately, where GSP dominates and Hardy is helpless

Scenario 2
Hardy wins by a KO﻿ punch and makes a big upset.

I am 99% percent chance Scenario 1 will occur instead of Scenario 2


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Really?

There goes my prediction of Hardy via flying scissor heel hook.


----------



## Icculus

More likely is that gsp will get the better of the early standup and take him down by mixing in a TD with his strikes.
How long it lasts depends on how bad a beating hardy can take.


----------



## adobostreak

Icculus said:


> More likely is that gsp will get the better of the early standup and take him down my mixing in a TD with his strikes.
> How long it lasts depends on how bad a beating hardy can take.


u think GSP can outstrike hardy?


----------



## khoveraki

Lol @ any "likely ending" resulting in Hardy winning.



And yeah, GSP has outstruck BJ Penn and Thiago Alves. Hardy was about even with Marcus Davis. Just sayin'.


----------



## Icculus

adobostreak said:


> u think GSP can outstrike hardy?


sure. He is a good striker and Hardy will be worried about being taken down so he wont be as effective as he was against davis and markham


----------



## locnott

I would be quite sad.. but not to worry, GSP will own him better than he did Matt Hughes the last time they fought..


----------



## HexRei

CharlieZ said:


> haha u think its like that? Come On hardy has a chance In an MMA fight anything can happen


Anything can happen in any sport, but Hardy has such a miniscule chance that a bet on him is pretty much a guaranteed loss.


----------



## IndependentMOFO

adobostreak said:


> Scenario 1
> GSP is going to take hardy to the ground immediately, where GSP dominates and Hardy is helpless
> 
> Scenario 2
> Hardy wins by a KO﻿ punch and makes a big upset.
> 
> I am 99% percent chance Scenario 1 will occur instead of Scenario 2


Sounds like you might have bought into the UFC hyping of Dan Hardy. The idea that Dan Hardy is a better striker than St Pierre is ridiculous. GSP was outstriking both Alves and Penn, who were supposed to be superior strikers. I think either Alves or Penn would beat Hardy in a stand up battle as well.


----------



## mawrestler125

adobostreak said:


> u think GSP can outstrike hardy?


YES.

GSP is twice the striker Hardy is. Not just anyone can out strike Penn.


----------



## michelangelo

TKO ground n pound. You know who. 

Strangely, I'm a lot less confident about calling this in GSP's favor than I was when he fought Alves. Hmmm.


----------



## butters

Two most likely?


#1 GSP beats the living shit out of him for 5 rounds and gets a unanimous decision.

#2 GSP beats the living shit out of him and knocks him out in round 3 or 4.

:thumb02:


----------



## Indestructibl3

1. GSP via UD.
2. GSP via GnP.


----------



## Icculus

Indestructibl3 said:


> 1. GSP via UD.
> 2. GSP via GnP.


3. gsp by vicous head kick!

4. hardy by.... spontaneous combustion of gsp in the ring


----------



## munkie

Scenario 2 is not even a possibility. Hardy can rock him but won't finish him and sure as hell won't knock him out cuz his power is way overrated.

It will happen one of these ways
1. GSP will take Hardy down and GnP and control him for 23 of the 25 minutes.
2. GSP will beat the living shit out of Hardy for 3 full rounds causing him to throw in the towel going into the 4th.

1 is what will most likely happen. But I'd love to see 2 happen.


----------



## alizio

i got this crazy idea of 2 ways it could end

1. GSP wins

2. Dan Hardy wins


----------



## adobostreak

alizio said:


> i got this crazy idea of 2 ways it could end
> 
> 1. GSP wins
> 
> 2. Dan Hardy wins


you are way too witty for this thread.


----------



## Soojooko

O my god. What an amazing thread. Here I am, sleepy eyed, drinking my morning coffee ( last nights left over ) and I see this becon of original MMA debating sitting there begging to be read. I was starting to tire of the lack of respect GSP gets on this forum. There is not nearly enough GSP gushing on here I feel. We need more threads like this one. We need to hear more of the endless tired arguments. "Hardy has 1% chance!"... or... "GSP by [insert some gross abusive word here]!"... "GSP was forged from the sun itself by Zeus"... "Word has it, that GSP's riddum is what makes the earth spin!"... "Hardys 22 years of training cannot possibly compete with GSP who battled tigers for 44 years in a cave"

This thread is rubbish. The title is rubbish. There are at the very least 28 other threads already designated for GSP oiling. Dont the Georgettes get tired of typing the same old shite over and over? I'm stating to think you're actually worried about the fight. Why else would anybody need to re-emphasise how rubbish Hardy is and how much GSP rocks again and again.

Dont worry chaps. GSP will very most likely win. Relax. Its all good.


----------



## NotDylan

The 3 most likely way the GSP/Serra fight will end:

1. GSP via UD
2. GSP via GnP
3. GSP via superman punch



With that being said, Dan Hardy is about to get raped.


----------



## adobostreak

Soojooko said:


> O my god. What an amazing thread. Here I am, sleepy eyed, drinking my morning coffee ( last nights left over ) and I see this becon of original MMA debating sitting there begging to be read. I was starting to tire of the lack of respect GSP gets on this forum. There is not nearly enough GSP gushing on here I feel. We need more threads like this one. We need to here more of the endless tired arguments. "Hardy has 1% chance!"... or... "GSP by [insert some gross abusive word here]!"... "GSP was forged from the sun itself by Zeus"... "Word has it, that GSP's riddum is what makes the earth spin!"... "Hardys 22 years of training cannot possibly compete with GSP who battled tigers for 44 years in a cave"
> 
> This thread is rubbish. The title is rubbish. There are at the very least 28 other threads already designated for GSP oiling. Dont the Georgettes get tired of typing the same old shite over and over? I'm stating to think you're actually worried about the fight. Why else would anybody need to re-emphasise how rubbish Hardy is and how much GSP rocks again and again.
> 
> Dont worry chaps. GSP will very most likely win. Relax. Its all good.


ill take your word for it, guy with Hardy in his avatar.


----------



## Soojooko

adobostreak said:


> ill take your word for it, guy with Hardy in his avatar.


Thats not Hardy. There are a million dudes in the uk look like that. Its actually my mate, Dave. So there.


----------



## Couchwarrior

The pre fight talk always goes the same way though when Georges is fighting. "GSP is the best in all aspects of the game, but hey, that guy might pull of a Serra!" Dana has to be thankful to Matt Serra, if it wasn't for him, there would be no way of hyping up GSP's fights.


----------



## Soojooko

Couchwarrior said:


> The pre fight talk always goes the same way though when Georges is fighting. "GSP is the best in all aspects of the game, but hey, that guy might pull of a Serra!" Dana has to be thankful to Matt Serra, if it wasn't for him, there would be no way of hyping up GSP's fights.


Thats some serious truth right there.


----------



## CharlieZ

i gotta go with the underdog dan hardy i think st.pierre is gonna win and win big but im rooting for hardy to knock him out. everyones obsest with st.pierre i hope hardy wins


----------



## Vale_Tudo

adobostreak said:


> Scenario 1
> GSP is going to take hardy to the ground immediately, where GSP dominates and Hardy is helpless
> 
> Scenario 2
> Hardy wins by a KO﻿ punch and makes a big upset.


Scenario 3
GSP outstrikes Dan Hardy and exposes him for what he really Is, a product of UFCs marketing machine.


----------



## Soojooko

rabakill said:


> well seeing as the bookies are putting it at 8:1 it's not really that far from the official betting odds on the fight.


8:1?... Which bookie is this?! Thats absurd odds. Best I can find is about 10:3 to 4:1. You are talking about real money, right?


----------



## AlphaDawg

You people realize GSP outstruck Penn/Alves because he used his wrestling beforehand to tire out their shoulders, right? GSP has blatantly said in interviews afterwards that he wanted nothing to do with their striking until he tired them out. If GSP were to fight Alves or Penn in a striking only match, he wouldn't stand a chance. As for the scenario, I see it ending in the usual GSP fashion. 5 round decision. The only person winning by TKO/KO in this fight would be Hardy.


----------



## grnlt

GSP will win by lay and pray, lets be honest GSP isnt a very exciting fighter anymore. But I dont blame him for doing what he has to do to get the W. Hes too worried about getting KOd again, hes basically a more athletic Matt Hughes now, except Hughes back in the day would maul guys now Hughes is super conservative on the ground. 

As for GSP being a better striker than Penn, Alves, etc...As a pure striker no way but because this isnt pure striking yes he can get the better of a lot of people standing just because they are too worried about the takedown and they arent afraid to eat a few GSP punches because GSP doesnt have any real KO power.


----------



## Drogo

AlphaDawg said:


> You people realize GSP outstruck Penn/Alves because he used his wrestling beforehand to tire out their shoulders, right? GSP has blatantly said in interviews afterwards that he wanted nothing to do with their striking until he tired them out. If GSP were to fight Alves or Penn in a striking only match, he wouldn't stand a chance. As for the scenario, I see it ending in the usual GSP fashion. 5 round decision. The only person winning by TKO/KO in this fight would be Hardy.


Do you have a link to any statement from GSP to the effect that he wanted nothing to do with their striking? He outstruck them before and after they got tired. Penn is a better boxer than GSP and in a straight up boxing match he might beat GSP although GSP's reach would still give him trouble. In a kick boxing match alone GSP beats Penn every time. He beats Alves in either. He beats Hardy in a straight up kick boxing match too, GSP's striking is under rated and Hardy's is significantly over rated.


----------



## SigFig

This thread is LOLZ...

Ya know, I wouldn't be p*ssed if Hardy won, as it would mix up the WW division which could use some "mixing up".

Buuuuuuut, let's be realistic here. In the octagon, GSP's striking advantage is not so much purely that of technical striking skill. It's due to his opponents having to defend the takedown such that they cannot engage in a true stand-up affair. If one of these feared strikers wants to bang with GSP, how 'bout this.... {drumroll} Stop his effing takedowns!

Who knows, maybe Hardy will show extraordinary TDD in this fight and shock the world. 

I'm not counting on it, but stranger things have happened.


----------



## AlphaDawg

What pisses me off is if Hardy does manage to somehow win, GSP will be given an immediate No #1 contender match, if not a title shot, because that's how the UFC works. When that happened with Serra, I was pissed. Completely unfair, fluke or not. It's crazy how someone can win a belt from a fighter, then have their first title defense be against that same fighter. Absurd.


----------



## Hiro

1. GSP by GnP
2. GSP by rear naked choke


----------



## Hank Jr

As far as the outcome; GSP will plain out win this in all aspects and dominate in all aspects. I feel bad saying it- but hardy is filler until a better challenger or more hypable match comes up for GSP.

Sadly, I don't mean it in a bad way for Hardy- I admire the guy who has done so much much in his time in the UFC already. Not only good but really fun to watch, charismatic, and a solid athlete. I really hope that the loss to GSP doesn't mess him up and that he bounces back and continues what he was doing before.

But there is a mis-match here and even knowing that I still want to see this fight.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

AlphaDawg said:


> What pisses me off is if Hardy does manage to somehow win, GSP will be given an immediate No #1 contender match, if not a title shot, because that's how the UFC works. When that happened with Serra, I was pissed. Completely unfair, fluke or not. It's crazy how someone can win a belt from a fighter, then have their first title defense be against that same fighter. Absurd.


GSP didn't immediately fight Serra agin after he lost. He beat Josh Koshcheck and Matt Hughes before taking a shot at Serra.


----------



## Drogo

AlphaDawg said:


> What pisses me off is if Hardy does manage to somehow win, GSP will be given an immediate No #1 contender match, if not a title shot, because that's how the UFC works. When that happened with Serra, I was pissed. Completely unfair, fluke or not. It's crazy how someone can win a belt from a fighter, then have their first title defense be against that same fighter. Absurd.


Serra was supposed to fight the winner of Penn-Hughes as his first defense but he got hurt so GSP stepped in to fight Hughes. Then when Serra was ready should he have fought the loser of that fight (Hughes)? The fact that GSP fought Serra as his first defense was unusual. GSP probably would only have one fight before he got another shot at Hardy if Hardy did win and that is completely standard for the UFC and every other fighting organization when you have a big upset like that.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

adobostreak said:


> u think GSP can outstrike hardy?


BJ Penn and Thiago Alves would agree he's a better striker and Matt Serra would say he's only got a puncher's chance(and I wouldn't count on that if GSP is as focused as the hype is implying)



Icculus said:


> More likely is that gsp will get the better of the early standup and take him down by mixing in a TD with his strikes.
> How long it lasts depends on how bad a beating hardy can take.


I would agree I see GSP standing for a while to tire Hardy out some and then put him on the ground and either ground out a decision/TKO, or tap him out.


----------



## rabakill

the problem is if Hardy wins via miracle punch, GSP will murder him in a rematch, I fear for Dan Hardy's life if he wins


----------



## LOJ

Drogo said:


> Serra was supposed to fight the winner of Penn-Hughes as his first defense but he got hurt so GSP stepped in to fight Hughes. Then when Serra was ready should he have fought the loser of that fight (Hughes)? The fact that GSP fought Serra as his first defense was unusual. GSP probably would only have one fight before he got another shot at Hardy if Hardy did win and that is completely standard for the UFC and every other fighting organization when you have a big upset like that.


GSP has beaten just about every top welterweight that they can put forth. He wouldn't get an automatic shot but after another top win he would. Also if Serra wasn't ready to fight GSP in Montreal, then he wouldn't have taken the fight. He was in over his head, and hyped way to much to fight in that cage with the calibre athlete like GSP. I mean Serra is a black belt in BJJ, why stand with the likes of a superior striker like GSP. Sure it worked the first time, but hell you've got to better than that to hang with GSP.


----------



## adobostreak

lol @ people saying GSP is a better striker than alves and penn, when he spent on average less than a minute each round standing up, right before taking either down for the remaining 4 minutes.


----------



## Thelegend

*Did UFC primetime make you change your mind about Hardy's chances.*

Simple question really. Did the three episodes of UFC primetime make you give hardy more of a chance against St. Pierre, less of a chance or did your opinion remain the same?

As for me i give him more of a chance vs. pierre. george does not have the greatest chin, that i think is something even his most devoted fan would not disagree with. i think george will make it a point to try and finish hardy but it will be through the ground game and not with the standup. if hardy manages to keep it on the feet early while george is still trying to set up the takedowns and go for broke he can catch him-its not like he has anything to lose by going all out.

His muay tai looks to be pretty good and if he can get george in the clinch or get him to brawl to try to prove the naysayers wrong about him being an athlete and not a fighter he could possibly get caught. This of course is just my opinion, your thoughts would be much appreciated as i have had a few arguments about whether primetime did anything to improve hardy's stock in many peoples minds.


----------



## Machida Karate

I went with less of a chance, GSP seems a lot stronger and the GSP that fought Alves with a pulled groin scared me how great his take downs were.

And this is the best GSP in skill and in strength, that we never saw yet.... And this isn't anything against Hardy because i wouldn't give ANYONE in the WW division a slight chance...

GSP is training with the best in the world and i believe he will be able to stand with Hardy or smash in on the ground, and i ONLY give him a punchers chance of 10% to win this fight.

Plus GSP showed in the second Serra fight that he cant do SHIT to GSP, and sorry to Hardy but Serra cant teach u to fight a WAY more improved/Focused GSP that WHOOPED his ass badly the second time around

GSP has been challenged with way better strikers and did JUST fine, so i dont know what Hardy will bring to the table to threaten him, that he hasn't been threaten with more of before....

Unless GSP gives him an opening, which the more i think about it, the lower of a chance i want to give Hardy....


----------



## TIME

I'll go less of a chance. Hardy's preperation really impressed me, and the kid obviously is a dangerous fighter, but what I saw in the GSP segments is that he is not overlooking Hardy and has taken his training to the highest level yet. It's possible that Hardy tags him like Sera did, but I now expect GSP to maul Hardy and completely dominate him like we saw in the second Sera fight.


----------



## Spec0688

He is still a huge underdog, and primetime hasnt really changed anything. If anything, it shows just how much better of a training regime/camp GSP has.


----------



## VolcomX311

Didn't change my mind about his chances, "much," but it did make me respect him more as a fighter. That's some serious dedication to fly to China to practice with Shaolin monks.


----------



## Calminian

I actually thing GSP is going to out strike him. While striking may be the worse part of GSP's game, I don't think he's been out struck in recent any recent fights, Alves, Penn. These guys were suppose to be superior strikers, yet none could do anything significant against him. And I'm not sure Hardy is as good a striker as those. No change for me from the show.


----------



## Thelegend

Machida Karate said:


> I went with less of a chance, GSP seems a lot stronger and the GSP that fought Alves with a pulled groin scared me how great his take downs were.
> 
> And this is the best GSP in skill and in strength, that we never saw yet.... And this isn't anything against Hardy because i wouldn't give ANYONE in the WW division a slight chance...
> 
> GSP is training with the best in the world and i believe he will be able to stand with Hardy or smash in on the ground, and i ONLY give him a punchers chance of 10% to win this fight.
> 
> Plus GSP showed in the second Serra fight that he cant do SHIT to GSP, and sorry to Hardy* but Serra cant teach u to fight a WAY more improved/Focused GSP that WHOOPED his ass badly the second time around*
> 
> Because GSP has been challenged with way better strikers and did JUST fine, so i dont know what Hardy will bring to the table to threaten him, unless GSP gives him an opening, which the more i think about it, the lower of a chance i want to give Hardy....


but serra can tech him how to get off the ground and how to keep from getting subbed. serra is a good teacher. dont be surprised if hardy scrambles and keeps the fight standing after a take down. In the alves fight, alves got up almost every time. if alves had better reach and did not have to get well inside gsp's range to strike it might have gone differently.


----------



## Machida Karate

VolcomX311 said:


> Didn't change my mind about his chances, "much," but it did make me respect him more as a fighter. That's some serious dedication to fly to China to practice with Shaolin monks.


Yeah it made me respect that background of Hardy too, its just to bad its GSP that's in his way...

Edit:



Thelegend said:


> but serra can tech him how to get off the ground and how to keep from getting subbed. serra is a good teacher. dont be surprised if hardy scrambles and keeps the fight standing after a take down. In the alves fight, alves got up almost every time. if alves had better reach and did not have to get well inside gsp's range to strike it might have gone differently.


This is True, we saw on TUF how good of a coach Sera is, he gets personal, and he has a real solid black belt.

I was more thinking he is there for that the Primetime didn't show, and thats the stand up Sera is teaching him, and if he is only there for the Ground Game then i say its a smart move, but ignorant if the way Sera beat GSP had anything to do with him going to his camp....


----------



## Thelegend

VolcomX311 said:


> Didn't change my mind about his chances, "much," but it did make me respect him more as a fighter. *That's some serious dedication to fly to China to practice with Shaolin monks.*


that part surprised me a lot. just goes to show that public persona does little to tell you about each fighters real background. hes much more than just a brawler.


----------



## luckbox

Made no difference whatsoever.


----------



## GKY

GSP doesn't have a good chin? It took about 20 unanswered punches from Serra to the chin to put him down, and even after he lost he got back up almost immediately. Plus the first one was to the back of the head (at no fault of Serra TBF). 

Outside of that fight he has never been rocked, BJ never really stunned him, Alves didn't stun him, no one he's ever fought outside of Serra has ever even come close to rocking GSP. I would really like to know why you think GSP doesn't have a great chin.


----------



## oldfan

Didn't change my mind. I still think that hardy is not even the best ww on team rough house. the ufc has a list of ww's that can beat him. It would be fun to watch him and AJ fight. And the ufc could have had a lot of fun building a rivalry between rough house and AKA but, after gsp destroys him there will be a lot less interest in his career.


----------



## Thelegend

GKY said:


> GSP doesn't have a good chin? It took about 20 unanswered punches from Serra to the chin to put him down, and even after he lost he got back up almost immediately. Plus the first one was to the back of the head (at no fault of Serra TBF).
> 
> Outside of that fight he has never been rocked, BJ never really stunned him, Alves didn't stun him, no one he's ever fought outside of Serra has ever even come close to rocking GSP. I would really like to know why you think GSP doesn't have a great chin.


based on the fact that a guy in serra who nobody would tout as a ko artist even rocked him to the point where he totally changed his gameplan to revolve around taking his opponent to the ground to avoid damage. that can be seen as an opinion but i think that if george believed in his chin more he would make it a point to stand and knockout his opponents and use his wrestling to keep the fight standing.:dunno:
-again that is only opinion but it is why i believe his chin is not that good. heck, could be wrong but if that was the caase why is it george made it a point to stand with guys like fitch and hughes but took serra, alves to the ground as much as possible?


----------



## michelangelo

I agree. That's the great thing about primetime: it shows you the spirit behind the warrior's facade. Now if they could only do something about their pay....



VolcomX311 said:


> Didn't change my mind about his chances, "much," *but it did make me respect him more as a fighter. * That's some serious dedication to fly to China to practice with Shaolin monks.


----------



## oldfan

GKY said:


> GSP doesn't have a good chin? It took about 20 unanswered punches from Serra to the chin to put him down, and even after he lost he got back up almost immediately. Plus the first one was to the back of the head (at no fault of Serra TBF).
> 
> Outside of that fight he has never been rocked, BJ never really stunned him, Alves didn't stun him, no one he's ever fought outside of Serra has ever even come close to rocking GSP. I would really like to know why you think GSP doesn't have a great chin.


You sir are correct. And, Serra didn't just "catch" him with a great shot. He followed up perfectly. I love to re-watch Serra pursuing him relentlessly but not recklessly. Serra's finest moment. If only he would go back to lightweight.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

I can't say it changed my mind about Dan's chances, but it was good for a few laughs, and illustrated that, while perhaps a tad delusional, Dan Hardy is quite the character. His comment about GSP walking to the Octagon 'in his pajamas' had me in stitches. I give Hardy the same chance I did before Prime Time, which is akin to a snowman's chance in hell, but I imagine he'll be the first to crack wise after he takes his lumps.


----------



## VolcomX311

I thought it was hilarious when Hardy said GSP comes out in his PJ's. You have to be damn lean to show up on TV wearing bicycle shorts.


----------



## towwffc

Thelegend said:


> based on the fact that a guy in serra who nobody would tout as a ko artist even rocked him to the point where he totally changed his gameplan to revolve around taking his opponent to the ground to avoid damage. that can be seen as an opinion but i think that if george believed in his chin more he would make it a point to stand and knockout his opponents and use his wrestling to keep the fight standing.:dunno:
> -again that is only opinion but it is why i believe his chin is not that good. heck, could be wrong but if that was the caase why is it george made it a point to stand with guys like fitch and hughes but took serra, alves to the ground as much as possible?


Ok so just because Serra wasn't already touted as a KO artist, and he rocked GSP, that just means GSP has a weak chin? Regaurdless of the fact that everybody realizes now that Serra does have a lot of power in his hands, not much technique, but lots of power. Not too mention he hit GSP in the back of the head. 

Also it is known that GSP mixes up his game because that gives him an advantage He is not the best striker in the world, but he is the most well rounded out of anybody in his division so he uses that to his advantage which is just smart. He stood with every single guy that you just named and outstruck all of them as well as controlling them on the ground.

And now you say that you question his chin because wrestling is his primary skill? Wow, so I guess Chuck Liddel must have a horrible ground game because he always seems to keep the fight standing doesn't he? It kind of sounds like you just WANT to believe that GSP has a bad chin, because what you are basing your opinion on doesn't really make sense.


----------



## hommage1985

GSP can come in with cancer Saturday night and dominate Hardy. All Primetime has done is allowed me to enjoy the beating that GSP will give to Dan Hardy so much more than before.


----------



## DragonStriker

Hardy is a great fighter and he showed it in the primetime show but it is going to take a lot of everything to bet GSP.


----------



## oldfan

hommage1985 said:


> GSP can come in with cancer Saturday night and dominate Hardy. All Primetime has done is allowed me to enjoy the beating that GSP will give to Dan Hardy so much more than before.


HAHAHA That's such a mean thing to say! I agree 100%


----------



## Shoegazer

Didn't change my ideas of how the fight will likely go, but I definitely like Hardy a lot more as a person/personality. I think he'd be a riot to hang out with and share a few beers...whereas Georges just sort of gives me the creeps.


----------



## munkie

If anything it made me think that Hardy has less of a chance than he did before. Seriously, going to Serra thinking that he gives you some kind of advantage is dumb. Serra won with a lucky punch. It had nothing to do with his ground game or anything. Punching power is all that won him that fight. And he is showing Hardy what to do on the ground when GSP is on top of him. We all saw how well he did against GSP in the 2nd fight. After the first episode, where he acted like he had somekind of big advantage because he's working with Serra, his chance went to absolute 0 since he seemed to be putting all his eggs in that basket.


----------



## morninglightmt

It did not change my opinion. Hardy has 1 Ko in the UFC 2 split decision wins and 1 unanimous decision win. GSP has been TKOd once in his entire career. Where the idea comes from that Hardy is some knockout monster and GSP has a week chin is beyond me.


----------



## tykilroy

munkie said:


> If anything it made me think that Hardy has less of a chance than he did before. Seriously, going to Serra thinking that he gives you some kind of advantage is dumb. Serra won with a lucky punch. It had nothing to do with his ground game or anything. Punching power is all that won him that fight. And he is showing Hardy what to do on the ground when GSP is on top of him. We all saw how well he did against GSP in the 2nd fight. After the first episode, where he acted like he had somekind of big advantage because he's working with Serra, his chance went to absolute 0 since he seemed to be putting all his eggs in that basket.


I couldn't agree with you more. Lucky punch is exactly what Serra landed. I am so tired of everyone saying GSP has no chin because some short fat gweedo landed a lucky punch in the right spot. Hit anyone in the right place they will do the chicken dance. They are saying Hardy's stand up is superior to GSP's, well I dont agree and they will find out on the 27th.


----------



## BobbyCooper

morninglightmt said:


> It did not change my opinion. Hardy has 1 Ko in the UFC 2 split decision wins and 1 unanimous decision win. GSP has been TKOd once in his entire career. Where the idea comes from that Hardy is some knockout monster and GSP has a week chin is beyond me.


Exactly what I just said in a different thread! He is not a KO Artist it's plain fictional! It just got out there, because it was a straw for the fans to get at least a little bit excitement into this.


----------



## munkie

BobbyCooper said:


> Exactly what I just said in a different thread! He is not a KO Artist it's plain fictional! It just got out there, because it was a straw for the fans to get at least a little bit excitement into this.



That's exactly what I've said from the very beginning. Seriously, Hardy's KO ratio is less than Mike Swick's, .473 to .5. Plus I don't think Hardy has ever finished anybody with one punch. His power is overrated, I've said that in every single thread where someone seems to think he can knock out GSP. He TKOed Rory Markham and couldn't finish Swick or Davis, even when he had them hurt. He doesn't have significant power but he does have good hands. But he can't knockout anybody with 1 punch.


----------



## GKY

Thelegend said:


> based on the fact that a guy in serra who nobody would tout as a ko artist even rocked him to the point where he totally changed his gameplan to revolve around taking his opponent to the ground to avoid damage. that can be seen as an opinion but i think that if george believed in his chin more he would make it a point to stand and knockout his opponents and use his wrestling to keep the fight standing.:dunno:
> -again that is only opinion but it is why i believe his chin is not that good. heck, could be wrong but if that was the caase why is it george made it a point to stand with guys like fitch and hughes but took serra, alves to the ground as much as possible?


Lots of people have good chins but still take their opponents down, Tito would be a good example. GSP has been taking people down since his TKO days. The only time he ever stood and struck with someone the whole fight was Hughes and Heiron, so I'm not sure where your getting your info from. 

Also, your gameplan has nothing to do with your chin, everyone knows Serra has power (he's the only person to ever drop BJ Penn), so why does taking about 10 perfect shots from him before going down qualify as having a crappy chin. Does that mean that everyone that has ever taken a LHK from Cro Cop and got KO'd as a result have a crappy chin? Does Rampage have a crappy chin because he got put down by Wandy? I really don't understand your thought process here, if you get hit multiple times by someone with power, your bound to go down no matter who you are.


----------



## hommage1985

DragonStriker said:


> Hardy is a great fighter and he showed it in the primetime show but it is going to take a lot of everything to bet GSP.


How did he show hes a great fighter on primetime?


----------



## Squirrelfighter

I went with unchanged simply because before the Primetimes I knew GSP would work his weaknesses, would enhance his strengths, and push himself hard. I didn't realize how hard until this past one. And I was surpised with Hardy having trained with monks in China, that's the most serious focus development ever, there. All in all they both surprised me. But nothing I saw made me think the outcome would be any different.


----------



## Thelegend

whoa, whoa i merely said i thought gsp's chin was not that good in my opinion and that was why i thought hardy had a better chance than he did previous. when did i say he had a crappy chin?-even further than that i noted the change in his style after the serra fight and thought it was significant because it might have come with his changed opinion of his ability to take a punch.



GKY said:


> Lots of people have good chins but still take their opponents down, Tito would be a good example. GSP has been taking people down since his TKO days. The only time he ever stood and struck with someone the whole fight was Hughes and Heiron, so I'm not sure where your getting your info from.
> 
> Also, your gameplan has nothing to do with your chin, everyone knows Serra has power (he's the only person to ever drop BJ Penn), *so why does taking about 10 perfect shots from him before going down qualify as having a crappy chin.* Does that mean that everyone that has ever taken a LHK from Cro Cop and got KO'd as a result have a crappy chin? Does Rampage have a crappy chin because he got put down by Wandy? I really don't understand your thought process here, if you get hit multiple times by someone with power, your bound to go down no matter who you are.


again, never said crappy chin but way to go:thumb02:. i think it was one punch that stunned him then he went down and as serra hit him he turned away. either way lets stay on track with the point of the thread....anyone else think hardy has more of a shot after watching ufc primetime?


----------



## BobbyCooper

If Hardy makes it into the third round, he can call himself a winner!


----------



## VolcomX311

BobbyCooper said:


> If Hardy makes it into the third round, he can call himself a winner!


:thumbsup: I don't even like GSP that much, but I can't deny his extraordinary talent.


----------



## hommage1985

BobbyCooper said:


> Exactly what I just said in a different thread! He is not a KO Artist it's plain fictional! It just got out there, because it was a straw for the fans to get at least a little bit excitement into this.


Matt Serra isn't a KO artist either, but Hardy isn't as good as Serra was.


----------



## InAweOfFedor

I don't like GSP but I appreciate that he is an unbelievable fighter and he looks well prepared physically.

I did notice that he seems a little more worried in his interviews than he did for BJ and Thiago, and perhaps he is a bit scared of being humiliated. I'm just saying that I saw no cracks in his mental game previously but this time he kinda of seemed like he had a little bit of doubt for this fight (but that could just come down to how the package was edited together).

I'm going for an upset simply coz I'm Australian and we love backing the underdog. To be honest as much as I wanted BJ and Thiago to win (BJ under trained IMO and Thiago had an ordinary strategy), this is the only fight where I've watched the lead up and thought that the guy GSP is fighting has a chance (albeit a small one).

Both looked great in training, but I'll be brave and say I'm going 'The Outlaw' in a major upset just for shits and giggles!  

So yeah I think the package made it look like Hardy has a better chance than previously thought.


----------



## Rusko

I am very easy to influence so I chose ''better chance''


----------



## GMK13

nope he still has no chance, i wish he would slow down on the trash talk so he can save some face when he gets absolutely destroyed.


----------



## Soakked

GSP's problem is his fear of losing to an inferior fighter. The last couple of opponents he's fought have been upper tier fighters, but now that he's fighting Hardy who's a heavy underdog, he fears letting people down. I think when it comes down to it, it'll be a closer fight just solely on the psychological factor; GSP feels vulnerable(it's all over his body language) and Hardy feels "game". Hardy isn't scared and believes in himself, so that helps his chances. Will GSP have the mental will to put the Serra mistake behind him, or will that affect him to become a one trick pony a la Tim Silvia?

Lets be clear I still think GSP has a 80% chance to beat him, but I don't take a fighter's mental well-being lightly. Rememeber that no matter how much a person trains their body, and how much skill they have, ultimately it's their brain that has control. Doubt even by a small fraction is one of the worst enemies to a champion, along with over-confidence.



> I did notice that he seems a little more worried in his interviews than he did for BJ and Thiago, and perhaps he is a bit scared of being humiliated. I'm just saying that I saw no cracks in his mental game previously but this time he kinda of seemed like he had a little bit of doubt for this fight (but that could just come down to how the package was edited together).


Ahh beat me to it.


----------



## xazos79

GKY said:


> GSP doesn't have a good chin? It took about 20 unanswered punches from Serra to the chin to put him down, and even after he lost he got back up almost immediately. Plus the first one was to the back of the head (at no fault of Serra TBF).
> 
> Outside of that fight he has never been rocked, BJ never really stunned him, Alves didn't stun him, no one he's ever fought outside of Serra has ever even come close to rocking GSP. I would really like to know why you think GSP doesn't have a great chin.


I was thinking the exact same thing. If you watch the Serra/GSP 1, GSP took quite a few solid shots. I actually thought, "Sh1t, GSP can take a punch that's for sure!".


----------



## TheNinja

The show reminded me of Rocky 4. Where GSP"S camp was like the russians, all high tech. While Hardy's was like Rocky's, just plain and basic.


----------



## golancer

its just a show for help sell ppv, they can do the same thing for anyother fighter, 1hr footage of hard trainning, talking/trash talking etc


----------



## HitOrGetHit

VolcomX311 said:


> Didn't change my mind about his chances, "much," but it did make me respect him more as a fighter. That's some serious dedication to fly to China to practice with Shaolin monks.


I agree. I gained some respect for him as well. I think that GSP is too much. His training was intense, he has some outstanding sparring partners, and he looks so focused.


----------



## Wookie

Overall I really don't think Primetime changed anything. Dan can talk all he wants but I still don't see him even coming close to beating GSP. Stranger things have happened though.


----------



## michelangelo

First off, the show dragged on too long. An hour and a half stretched the material too thin, and the last third could simply have been dropped altogether. 

Second, the main question is whether Hardy has TDD capable of stuffing GSP's shoots. If not, everything else is irrelevant. It looks like Serra was showing Hardy how to escape and scramble to his feet after being taken down. This is a mistake. Hardy will be so worn down wrestling GSP, his stand up will be ineffective. 
*
Hardy has to keep it standing. *




That is all.


----------



## swpthleg

His stock increased in my eyes due to the time spent at the Shaolin temple in spartan conditions.

I also loved watching him bust out those sweet kata.

I still think he'll get destroyed, but he's more likable all the time.


----------



## thrshr01

Here's the problem that I see with hardy: His most dangerous weapon are his hands, he's a good striker but not great. GSP has faced excellent strikers in Alves and BJ and he made them look bad in the stand up. BJ, IMO, is one of the best boxers in MMA could not touch GSP standing not just because of GSPs reach advantage but his movements are excellent. 
If Dan's only chance is a puncher's chance, then he doesn't have much of a chance!


----------



## Life B Ez

michelangelo said:


> First off, the show dragged on too long. An hour and a half stretched the material too thin, and the last third could simply have been dropped altogether.
> 
> Second, the main question is whether Hardy has TDD capable of stuffing GSP's shoots. If not, everything else is irrelevant. It looks like Serra was showing Hardy how to escape and scramble to his feet after being taken down. This is a mistake. Hardy will be so worn down wrestling GSP, his stand up will be ineffective.
> *
> Hardy has to keep it standing. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is all.


That's like saying the key to getting away from a shark is swimming faster than it can.........


----------



## Dan0

> You want to know how focused Georges St. Pierre is for his fight with Dan Hardy at UFC 111? Not only is he not even considering the possibility of a life that continues beyond this Saturday night, he hasn't even bothered to pay attention to the passage of time.


Courtesy of Cagepotato


----------



## Indestructibl3

To me it was just a way to hype the fight/PPV, it didn't change my opinion on how the fight is going to go at all.


----------



## LightweightFighter

I never had an opinion cause I have no idea who Dan Hardy is but after watching prime time I really like him as a person and I hope he whoops GSP.

I seriously think GSP has a huge ego and he tries to put on this humble act. He cares too much about what the fans think of him so he doesn't really show how he really feels. That's why I don't like him.


----------



## Atilak

Didnt change my mind about outcoming of the figh.

I still think that Hardy will win raise01: 

Im really tired of ppl saying he has no chance. GSP is no superhuman. (yes the saint word of Hardy) 

It did change my mind about GSP personality. Did you noticed that everything GSP did is too perfect, unnatural. It makes me sick. He is just too afraid to be himself. He is that kind of person that want to look perfect in eyes of everybody.


----------



## LightweightFighter

Atilak said:


> Didnt change my mind about outcoming of the figh.
> 
> I still think that Hardy will win raise01:
> 
> Im really tired of ppl saying he has no chance. GSP is no superhuman. (yes the saint word of Hardy)
> 
> It did change my mind about GSP personality. Did you noticed that everything GSP did is too perfect, unnatural. It makes me sick. He is just too afraid to be himself. He is that kind of person that want to look perfect in eyes of everybody.


exactly my point, he seems fake


----------



## Soojooko

My Primetime thoughts:

- GSP is a very scary man. Even if he comes in no different to the Alves fight, he's still pretty much unbeatable. If his hype machine is correct and indeed his skills and strength have improved greatly, then Hardy is in for some big pain.

- Hardy is funny. He says things that belong on a stage. People might dislike it, but feck them! Hes intelligent and makes me laugh. Fighter or not, how can I not like him.

- I still think Hardy has a small chance. I'm convinced he'll have GSP a little rocked at some point. It's his ability to capitalize that I'm not convinced about. GSP's instincts are top notch. He swarms all over you the moment theres an opening. 

- I easily saw just as much trash coming out of GSP's gob as I did out of Dans over the whole 3 episodes. Because Dans shit is funnier, it *seems* like hes talking more.

- There does seem some concern in GSP's face if you ask me. I think because nobody is giving Hardy any chance at all, its putting pressure on him. He knows losing this one will be far more devastating then losing to Fitch, Alves or Kos. To be clear, I dont think this is any kind of advantage to Hardy. Quite the opposite. GSP reacts well to fear. We learned this after round 1 of GSP vs Penn 1. If anything it makes me more convinced GSP will take it.

- Will you people stop with making training with Serra more than it is. Hardy went there to sharpen up his ground game. Its pretty fecking obvious. The fact that Serra happens to be an awesome ground guy helps. The fact that he also happens to be the last person to take out GSP is just good tv.

- That group hug in GSP's gym made me want to puke my breakfast all over my computer. I cant believe so many of you are so far up GSPs bumhole that you didn't cringe at this. If GSP is so honourable he would have told the cameras to feck off while doing that. Letting them film his thank you speech for the cameras was shite. Like he wants to force feed us this idea that his training camp are his brothers and they all love each other. Errr... no thanks. Nasty.

- The bits where Serra was giving Dan pep talks was equally cringe-worthy. Luckily Dan spared himself further humiliation by staying quiet and letting Serra ramble on in a most unconvincing fashion that hes confident. Its a painful voice to listen to for more than 3 minutes.

- Im not watching another show. Overall I hated it. Too much talk from the trainers and buddies of the fighters. All saying the same thing. Its sooo boring. I would have rather followed the fighters around when they are NOT in the gym. Make for something a bit more interesting. Its not like they are going to be stupid enough to expose their REAL training and tactics when the cameras are rolling? Why would they? May as well send your opponent a letter outlining your gameplan. Knowing this, it makes watching the fighters training on a TV show a little pointless.


----------



## Danm2501

People have reacted to the Serra training just how the UFC wanted them to. I firmly believe it was done a publicity stunt, and for the Primetime cameras. Dan is not adding anything drastic to his game after training with Serra. He had trained for 8 weeks prior to going over to the US, that's the serious training we didn't see. Sure training with Serra will help his Jiu Jitsu, and he could get a few small tips on gameplan from Serra, but ultimately, it's a publicity stunt. 

Gareth A Davies, who is pretty close to Dan and the UK fighters has been saying that this is easily the most focused Dan Hardy he's ever seen. He's focused his camp so intently on beating Georges St-Pierre. Dan himself is extremely confident, and believes he has the tools to upset GSP, and I just cannot write someone off that is so focused on victory. GSP looks to be as well prepared as we've seen him, but I just think Dan is slightly more hungry, which is understandable being the contender. I personally cannot wait for the fight, I'd absolutely love Dan Hardy to come away victorious.

Great post Soojo as well btw. Agree entirely.


----------



## swpthleg

Soojooko said:


> My Primetime thoughts:
> 
> - GSP is a very scary man. Even if he comes in no different to the Alves fight, he's still pretty much unbeatable. If his hype machine is correct and indeed his skills and strength have improved greatly, then Hardy is in for some big pain.
> 
> - Hardy is funny. He says things that belong on a stage. People might dislike it, but feck them! Hes intelligent and makes me laugh. Fighter or not, how can I not like him.
> 
> - I still think Hardy has a small chance. I'm convinced he'll have GSP a little rocked at some point. It's his ability to capitalize that I'm not convinced about. GSP's instincts are top notch. He swarms all over you the moment theres an opening.
> 
> - I easily saw just as much trash coming out of GSP's gob as I did out of Dans over the whole 3 episodes. Because Dans shit is funnier, it *seems* like hes talking more.
> 
> - There does seem some concern in GSP's face if you ask me. I think because nobody is giving Hardy any chance at all, its putting pressure on him. He knows losing this one will be far more devastating then losing to Fitch, Alves or Kos. To be clear, I dont think this is any kind of advantage to Hardy. Quite the opposite. GSP reacts well to fear. We learned this after round 1 of GSP vs Penn 1. If anything it makes me more convinced GSP will take it.
> 
> - Will you people stop with making training with Serra more than it is. Hardy went there to sharpen up his ground game. Its pretty fecking obvious. The fact that Serra happens to be an awesome ground guy helps. The fact that he also happens to be the last person to take out GSP is just good tv.
> 
> - That group hug in GSP's gym made me want to puke my breakfast all over my computer. I cant believe so many of you are so far up GSPs bumhole that you didn't cringe at this. If GSP is so honourable he would have told the cameras to feck off while doing that. Letting them film his thank you speech for the cameras was shite. Like he wants to force feed us this idea that his training camp are his brothers and they all love each other. Errr... no thanks. Nasty.
> 
> - The bits where Serra was giving Dan pep talks was equally cringe-worthy. Luckily Dan spared himself further humiliation by staying quiet and letting Serra ramble on in a most unconvincing fashion that hes confident. Its a painful voice to listen to for more than 3 minutes.
> 
> - Im not watching another show. Overall I hated it. Too much talk from the trainers and buddies of the fighters. All saying the same thing. Its sooo boring. I would have rather followed the fighters around when they are NOT in the gym. Make for something a bit more interesting. Its not like they are going to be stupid enough to expose their REAL training and tactics when the cameras are rolling? Why would they? May as well send your opponent a letter outlining your gameplan. Knowing this, it makes watching the fighters training on a TV show a little pointless.


Awesome post. I can't rep you again atm, but this was so well put I had to comment on it. Love the Englishism "gob" BTW. See also, if Hardy KOs GSP, I and millions of others will be gobsmacked.


----------



## Sekou

I lol'ed when Dan Hardy said GSP brough in an "all-star cast of Marquart, Florian and Patrick Cote" :laugh:


----------



## surferbiel01

Still only give Hardy a punchers chance. I like Hardy but think that he still has a lot to learn. I also think that he needs a couple significant losses to really help him become a better martial artist. Hardy does really bank on his striking and until he is able to respect each aspect of the game equally he will not be on the same level as GSP. That being said, Hardy's only real chance is the one punch knock-out.


----------



## vaj3000

tbh all he's been saying is 'ive got a punchers chance'... when i hit him im gonna KO him etc etc etc..

Im sorry Dan Hardeeey but im not impressed by your pehformaance.

When your secret weapon is a guy who walkin music is the rocky theme u know your in trouble


----------



## Danm2501

Just watching the 3rd Episode now, and is it just me, or has Dan packed on some muscle mass? He looks massive hitting the mits, his shoulders look so much stockier than they did against Swick. He looks a very strong dude, but we knew that anyway, with him deadlifting 500lbs in that 3rd episode. He's a big welterweight!


----------



## VolcomX311

Danm2501 said:


> Just watching the 3rd Episode now, and is it just me, or has Dan packed on some muscle mass? He looks massive hitting the mits, his shoulders look so much stockier than they did against Swick. He looks a very strong dude, but we knew that anyway, with him deadlifting 500lbs in that 3rd episode. He's a big welterweight!


I think it was actually 405lbs. The hexagon bar only has room for 4 plates on each side and the hexagon bar though it closely mimics the look of a dead lift, it actually feels MUCH closer to a squat, in taxing your quads/hips as oppose to hips/posterior chain. Having the weight displaced at your sides as oppose to in front of you as with a barbell makes the biggest difference on how much the posterior chain becomes involved, but I'm just nit picking. It's still not too bad weight wise for someone his size.


----------



## coldcall420

I make my mind up of what i see in and during fights, not what the UFC want me to think.....


I would offer that is one of this Forums biggest problems is people on here get "sold" essentially on fighters who aren't really what the promotion from the UFC make them seem....


----------



## Machida Karate

coldcall420 said:


> I make my mind up of what i see in and during fights, not what the UFC want me to think.....
> 
> 
> I would offer that is one of this Forums biggest problems is people on here get "sold" essentially on fighters who aren't really what the promotion from the UFC make them seem....



Yeah its true... If u only went off the Countdowns and what UFC tells u, then you would think all type of stupid shit, like Hardy having a chance, and Matt Serra saying Hardy is a way better striker then GSP... 

Or my personal favorite, Shane Carwin 11 - 0 ALL KO's lol


----------



## JoshKnows46

Machida Karate said:


> Yeah its true... If u only went off the Countdowns and what UFC tells u, then you would think all type of stupid shit, like Hardy having a chance, and Matt Serra saying Hardy is a way better striker then GSP...
> 
> Or my personal favorite, Shane Carwin 11 - 0 ALL KO's lol


That was fucked up when rogan asked carwin about the 11 ko's on wec sunday, and carwin agreed with it, lieing sack, lol, he knows he didn't have 11 ko's, that really annoyed me....i want mir to smash his face in, just for that.

i think mir's striking is better than carwins, and i think he knocks him out early....mir takes this fight standing or on the ground.


----------



## Atmosphere

The contacts he was wearing at the weigh ins did more to make me think he has a better chance to win than the prime time. I'll be rooting for him though, but I don't think he will win.


----------



## LOJ

If GSP loses this fight, it will be because he did something really wrong; and it wasn't his night. 

GSP is by far the superior fighter, and on paper Hardy is not at the same level.

But like I said before, that doesn't matter when in a big fight situation. Especially in MMA. One wrong move and it could be all over for GSP.

But because GSP got stopped by Matt Serra, that gives Hardy less of a chance to win this fight. Simply because GSP is smarter; and better than he ever was. He continues to be better than anyone who stands in front of him.

Fans are giving Dan Hardy the chance of a KO/TKO win because of GSP's loss to Serra. However, I give Hardy less of chance to win because of GSP losing to Serra.

Now, GSP has to be sharper with high caliber strikers like Dan Hardy.

I am very confident that we will see the greatest GSP to ever step foot in the octagon.


----------



## zarny

Nope nothing has changed imo.

Hardy hits hard and is a good counter-puncher. He has a puncher's chance just like Serra did in his first fight with GSP.

Otherwise 9/10, 99/100...whatever the ratio is GSP takes this fight.

IMO Hardy's best odds are to pull a Diego Sanchez. Literally sprint across the cage at GSP and start throwing everything he has.

If he lets GSP dictate the 1st minute of the fight Hardy is done. What GSP does better than any fighter is mix his attack.

Fitch, Penn, Alves...they all knew GSP was going to try to take them down. They also knew a superman punch followed by a leg kick was coming. They just had no idea which.

Drop your hands to defend the takedown and GSP punches you in the face. Bring your hands up and on your back you go.

If Hardy lets GSP set the rhythm he's going to have the same stunned, confused look on his face that Fitch, Penn and Alves had and his night will end real quick.


----------



## sworddemon

I think we'll look back at the primetime episodes and think...man, how stupid was I to think Hardy actually had a chance in this fight? A guy who has fought and beat some of the best welterweights in the world in dominant fashion against a guy who is 4-0 in the UFC with one KO, one UD and two SD? These episodes just reiterated the fact that Hardy's only chance of winning is by flash KO. If they fight 100 times, GSP wins 99.


----------



## alizio

at least GSP fans conpensated since the Serra fiasco.

now instead of 100%, for sure. its 99/100. watch your backs, you guys likely lose more sleep at night over Serra then GSP does haha that 1/100 is coming for ya!!!


----------



## Dan0

I don't remember being this f*ckin hyped for a fight in a long time.
It's possibly the combination of GSP being the owner of the nuts I'm hugging and the Primetime series that did a great job.
Never the less - I'm pumped!


----------



## Soojooko

coldcall420 said:


> I make my mind up of what i see in and during fights, not what the UFC want me to think.....
> 
> 
> I would offer that is one of this Forums biggest problems is people on here get "sold" essentially on fighters who aren't really what the promotion from the UFC make them seem....


I would agree with you mostly CC, but in the case of this particular fight, I would say it's the GSP fans that have got a bit carried away. Ive not seen one single person, even the big Hardy fans, give Dan much of a chance of winning at all. I certainly give him no more than about 15% at absolute best. Its quite annoying that I cant even make these suggestions without getting completely trounced on by the Georgettes as if I'm suggesting Hardy will win the fight convincingly. I didn't realise giving a fighter a 15% chance qualified this kind of response!


----------



## Awful Waffle

not at all, Hardy is doomed.


----------



## No_Mercy

Was there a part three of the countdown...

Hardy seems really confident. I think he may do better than what most people expect. GSP is gonna have to set the pace and break his will round by round till he sets up the TKO by the 4th round or if not tap him out. 

This is an important fight cuz if GSP wins he's going to be moving up eventually and we all know what we want to see.

The Rush vs The Spider...


----------



## coldcall420

Awful Waffle said:


> not at all, Hardy is doomed.


 
Love the AVY that movie rocked and the Gun's n roses track was the shit....

Welcome to the forum bud!!!!


----------



## xeberus

coldcall420 said:


> Love the AVY that movie rocked and the Gun's n roses track was the shit....
> 
> Welcome to the forum bud!!!!


First R rated movie I ever saw, first R rated movie I ever owned :thumb02:




And welcome to the forum new guy :thumb02:


----------



## 6toes

alizio said:


> at least GSP fans conpensated since the Serra fiasco.
> 
> now instead of 100%, for sure. its 99/100. watch your backs, you guys likely lose more sleep at night over Serra then GSP does haha that 1/100 is coming for ya!!!


Haha, tis true. I always make sure to include that 1% since the Serra fiasco. Even when I'm supremely confident about GSP winning a fight, I always have that nervous feeling accompanied by lucid hallucinations of Serra rocking Georges. But then Georges always ends up completely dominating and all is well :thumb02:.


----------



## Inkdot

Awful Waffle said:


> not at all, Hardy is doomed.












Hmm... is... is that Terminator 2?


----------



## UKMMAGURU

Bizump..

I love tht title of this thread, and i hope hope hope hope that it can somehow become a reality tonight!

Good luck Dan Hardy, The UK is behind you!


----------



## rushStPierre

what makes this match so intriguing is hardys lack of respect for GSP.

but make no mistake(bush lmao), he will respect him after its over

gsp doesnt just beat you , he demoralizes you. thiago silva cried for sh.t sake


----------



## UKMMAGURU

rushStPierre said:


> what makes this match so intriguing is hardys lack of respect for GSP.
> 
> but make no mistake(bush lmao), he will respect him after its over
> 
> gsp doesnt just beat you , he demoralizes you. thiago silva cried for sh.t sake


Hardy will repsect GSP after this fight win or lose, how can any fighter not respect someone with a record like GSPs?

Hardy is in a frame of mind right now where he will not, for his own sake, give GSP any respect.. you just have to look at the guys who have shown respect to GSP in the past and look at the result.. Hardy is dead right that too many people have shown GSP too much repsect during fights, it's the same with Anderson Silva it's as if half the fighters that face these top P4P guys are shitting themselves before a punch has been thrown, Hardy wants to win and if he has to use a tactic that doesn't sit well with some GSP fans then it's fine by me, the fight is more important than the small details surrounding, such as fans thinking someone has been disrespectful etc

Good luck Dan Hardy.


----------



## Leed

*If Hardy wins, I will...*

Discussing 111 with a mate, we somehow ran in to this topic, so..

What are you willing to do, if Hardy wins the fight? Maybe you have some IRL bets/dares on with any friends?


----------



## looney liam

if hardy wins i'll rewind the footage, just to make sure what i saw was real. i'd jump in the air and run around the house screaming.

then i'd log straight into MMAforum and brag to all the gsp fans. 

finally, i'd tell everyone in work that the ufc has a british champion, to which people will say 'er.. whats ufc? oh you mean that cage fighting thing?'


----------



## Dan0

...post my nude pictures online.


----------



## DJ Syko

Id be careful people because we will want everyone to uphold there wagers or you will be forever banished from the MMA community lol. Maybe not the naked pics dares, unless they are female .


----------



## Leed

a red mohawk anyone? :thumb02:


----------



## thrshr01

I will pillage and plunder my town since 2012 is actually coming sooner than later.


----------



## UFCFAN89

Leed said:


> if Hardy wins


----------



## Hawndo

fap over chat roullete

and if he loses......

fap over chat roullete,


that's just how I roll.


----------



## xbrokenshieldx

If Dan Hardy wins I will watch a Women's Basketball Game.


----------



## xeberus

Dan0 said:


> ...post my nude pictures online.


Oh risque! 




xbrokenshieldx said:


> If Dan Hardy wins I will watch a Women's Basketball Game.


Good god man! I know someone who's pulling for gsp :thumb02:


----------



## aerius

I'll let my wife **** choke me.


----------



## LOJ

Leed said:


> Discussing 111 with a mate, we somehow ran in to this topic, so..
> 
> *What are you willing to do, if Hardy wins the fight? *Maybe you have some IRL bets/dares on with any friends?


I'll pinch myself and wake up because I'll know I've been dreaming.


----------



## box

> I'll let my wife **** choke me.


That sounds like a win win to me ^.


----------



## LOJ




----------



## swpthleg

I will sit through multiple boring azz golf tournaments on TV.......oh wait, I do that anyway.


----------



## Emericanaddict

If Hardy beats GSP tonight ill dye my hair pink tomorrow and post the pictures. Id do the mohawk but im sure as hell not cutting my gorgeous locks of man main!


----------



## Leed

Emericanaddict said:


> If Hardy beats GSP tonight ill dye my hair pink tomorrow and post the pictures. Id do the mohawk but im sure as hell not cutting my gorgeous locks of man main!


You do know that dying is not at all that extreme, as you can dye right back after a few minutes, so you better do the mohawk!


----------



## Franco

The build up is getting to be too much. But they're doing a good job on the pre-shows and countdowns. They're making Hardy look really good. And of course anyone can win a match with out anyone seeing it coming, but St. Pierre is not only a lot better, but he's fought better guys and he's just superior to Hardy in MMA. Hardy's had some good matches, but he just hasn't fought someone like GSP before. So my 1st prediction says St. Pierre by submission in the 3rd. Best of luck guys.


----------



## MoopsiePuffs

laugh and win a bit of cash XD


----------



## SpoKen

If Hardy wins I'll pee on my bed.


----------



## IcemanJacques

If Hardy wins Ill eat my dog


----------



## lpbigd4444

if hardy wins i will cry myself to sleep


----------



## Awful Waffle

express mild surprise and then go on about my day.


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

If Hardy wins I'll remove all the darts from my portrait of the Queen.


----------



## michelangelo

....eat more PIZZA.





That is all.


----------



## Machida Karate

If Hardy can actually beat GSP which is hard to even say, then i will NEVER be surprised from a upset AGAIN Period!


----------



## HeWillEnlarge

If Hardy wins i'll make my girlfriend a sandwich!


----------



## Emericanaddict

Leed said:


> You do know that dying is not at all that extreme, as you can dye right back after a few minutes, so you better do the mohawk!


You know... you would have to be ignorant to dye your hair within minutes of dyeing it in the first time. It's extremely damaging to dye it at all dude. I love my hair it's my pride and joy. I may be a dude but I won't do anything to screw up my hair. Your supposed to wait atleast 2 weeks between dyeing your hair before you do it again otherwise it turns to shit. I can post pictures daily if you wish though so you can see that I didnt just re-dye it or anything of the sorts.

Point being it's a big thing for me to say ill dye my hair at all let alone pink lol. I know it may sound gay but my hair is my favorite attribute next to my sometimes epic beard but from time to time im forced to shave for work related reasons lol.


----------



## Machida Karate

Emericanaddict said:


> I love my hair it's my pride and joy.



Lol to that


----------



## Leed

Emericanaddict said:


> I love my hair it's my pride and joy. I may be a dude but I won't do anything to screw up my hair..


I know what you mean man.. :thumb02:


----------



## Rauno

Should Hardy win, i'd erase this memory from my mind, like forever.


----------



## UFCFAN89

Spoken812 said:


> If Hardy wins I'll pee on my bed.


Leben?!

Oh wait, you said your OWN bed. Nevermind.


----------



## IndependentMOFO

Any Canadians happen to catch the most recent MMA Connected on Sportsnet? Which at the end of the program featured opinions from UFC fighters on who was going to win GSP/Hardy and when it came to Matt Serra he confidently answered "GSP, probably by ground and pound". Seems he's contradicting the UFC hype machine. I found it a bit funny anyways.


----------



## Thelegend

ill become a dan hardy fan and be first class on the warwagon.....


----------



## No_Mercy

AlphaDawg said:


> What pisses me off is if Hardy does manage to somehow win, GSP will be given an immediate No #1 contender match, if not a title shot, because that's how the UFC works. When that happened with Serra, I was pissed. Completely unfair, fluke or not. It's crazy how someone can win a belt from a fighter, then have their first title defense be against that same fighter. Absurd.


Actually GSP earned his way back up. He fought Josh Koscheck then Serra was slated to defend against Hughes I believe, but was injured. Then GSP stepped in to fight Hughes (same card as Chuck Liddell vs Wand) and dismantled him and set up the rematch. Everybody wanted to see it regardless, but he had to wait a full year to get his revenge. 

So the only immediate rematch in recent history would be Lyoto vs Shogun. Rampage should have got his against Griffin to imo. 

Lets see how the fight goes down tonight! :thumb02:


----------



## Life B Ez

If Hardy wins I'll get in the cage with that killer Charlie Z.


----------



## Guymay

i will sign to fight Brock .


----------



## vandalian

UFCFAN89 said:


>


This.


----------



## BrianRClover

I'll look forward to reading all the GSP fanatics post about how it was a fluke, should have never happened, and blah blah blah... seriously, it will be better than the Shogun fans after the Machida fight... I'm truly excited :thumb02:


----------



## georgie17891

GSP by dry humping Dan Hardy for 5 rounds


----------



## AceofSpades187

I will drink the pain anyway


----------



## Life B Ez

BrianRClover said:


> I'll look forward to reading all the GSP fanatics post about how it was a fluke, should have never happened, and blah blah blah... seriously, it will be better than the Shogun fans after the Machida fight... I'm truly excited :thumb02:


Except if Hardy wins it won't be by a Cecil Peoples decision it will be a KO. You can't dispute a KO even if it is a "lucky" punch, it will still decided by the fighters not some judges.


----------



## georgie17891

If he wins I will get a red mohawk


----------



## Leed

georgie17891 said:


> If he wins I will get a red mohawk


don't leave town..


----------



## box

If Hardy wins, I get admin spot for a day.


----------



## TraMaI

If Hardy win, I'll pee on Spoken's bed.


----------



## diablo5597

If Hardy wins I will let Cornbread into my house.


----------



## TraMaI

diablo5597 said:


> If Hardy wins I will let Cornbread into my house.


u gon' get raped, sonny!


----------



## Rachmunas

If Hardy wins I'll ask my girlfriend to marry me! :sarcastic01:


----------



## vaj3000

Rachmunas said:


> If Hardy wins I'll ask my girlfriend to marry me! :sarcastic01:


Dude your girl has some bad odd's. If i ws her i wouldnt go out and get a ring just yet


----------



## xeberus

diablo5597 said:


> If Hardy wins I will let Cornbread into my house.


When he decides to "make your acquaintance" tell him your his first  he loves that 



Rachmunas said:


> If Hardy wins I'll ask my girlfriend to marry me! :sarcastic01:


oh god >_>

dont do it man, its not worth it, you have so much to live for..

If hardy wins I'll cut my hair into a mohawk and dye it bright red.

Not my head... down there 

edit: WOAH noobfail double post

can i get a mod to merge this and my last post pls


----------



## diablo5597

He Double Posted^ Ban Him!


----------



## Judoka

If hardy wins I will poo in my cereal.


----------



## diablo5597

Judoka said:


> If hardy wins I will poo in my cereal.


and eat it?


----------



## Awful Waffle

Judoka said:


> If hardy wins I will poo in my cereal.


I'm calling bullshit man, If Hardy does win I demand that you film yourself doing this.


----------



## swpthleg

HeWillEnlarge said:


> If Hardy wins i'll make my girlfriend a sandwich!


Goddamn. You're not fooling around.


----------



## Judoka

Of course I am bullsh*tting, why would I poo on delicious cornflakes.

However, Id gladly take a dump in Frank Mir's cereal, win or lose.


----------



## UFCFAN89

Judoka said:


> If hardy wins I will poo in my cereal.


----------



## punchbag

looney liam said:


> if hardy wins i'll rewind the footage, just to make sure what i saw was real. i'd jump in the air and run around the house screaming.
> 
> then i'd log straight into MMAforum and brag to all the gsp fans.
> 
> finally, i'd tell everyone in work that the ufc has a british champion, to which people will say 'er.. whats ufc? oh you mean that cage fighting thing?'


I love the last paragraph of this, so true. Anyway I think i'll just run to the nearest window, and look outside as I'd fear this is one of the signs of the world coming to an end. But would love Hardy to pull it off, even if he does what is the betting he wont be on the papers back pages like any other British sporting champion would do?


----------



## UrbanBounca

... Lose 200K credits. It won't happen, though. Hardy should be shining GSP's shoes.


----------



## Jerade1524

Yeah lol agreed.


----------



## tombrock82

georgie17891 said:


> GSP by dry humping Dan Hardy for 5 rounds


nix the dry humping and replace with unadulterated utter butt **** of a far inferior "mixed martial artist"


----------



## Terror Kovenant

GSP round 2 TKO, calling it


----------



## Gonzo

I agree!! round #2....


----------



## godson

GSP coming out to Biggie Smalls.. xD


----------



## Gonzo

He must like rap music. I dont get it... lol


----------



## Terror Kovenant

godson said:


> GSP coming out to Biggie Smalls.. xD


Pretty disugsting


----------



## Hellboy

Let's hope GSP grows some balls and fights Anderson after this meaningless title fight.


----------



## xeberus

gsp looks like a glowing god...

i hope hardy brings him back down.. hes just a man


----------



## Gonzo

Ha, I dont even know what to say about GSP vs Silva..... ???


----------



## Gonzo

Let me guess GSP is all ready in full mount?!


----------



## JimmyJames

Since I am pissed Mir lost I now want GSP to lose also.....

Spread the misery:thumb02:






















GSP wins and this aint going to the judges.


----------



## Gonzo

No way GSP looses this fight... Hes way to tough for Hardy.


----------



## Iuanes

Well Hardy is doing what he said we was going to do.

Surviving.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

wow at the armbar


----------



## godson

It looked like hardy tapped.. :confused02:


----------



## Freiermuth

Yeah props to Hardy for getting out of that armbar at the end of the 1st.


----------



## Hellboy

Matt Serra thwarts GSP once again!


----------



## Guymay

gsp need to move to MW . he's too strong for those poor WW's

for hardy , at least he got heart of a champion .


----------



## chosenFEW

hardy's right arm is hurt i believe after that sub attempt.

havent seen him throw too many rights since. i counted 1 so far


----------



## Freiermuth

End of round 2...why isn't Hardy all smiles anymore?


----------



## JimmyJames

Guymay said:


> gsp need to move to MW . he's too strong for those poor WW's
> 
> for hardy , at least he got heart of a champion .


GSP needs to realize this division is cleaned out and the real challenge is at MW.

I have never seen anything like GSP in MMA, amazing athlete.

With that said I hate Greg Jackson and his "dont pass" way of thinking.


----------



## Gonzo

Sounds like Hardy has been taken down 7 times.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

GSP throwing everything at Dan but the kitchen sink. Tough kid.


----------



## Guymay

That's heart for you


----------



## Freiermuth

OMG about getting out of the Kimura! I wanted to tap for him on that.


----------



## chosenFEW

i think gsp let hardy out of that sub... he didn't want to break his arm.

saw how he looked at his coaches


----------



## Gonzo

Hardys got to be beaten up by now. Will he make it through round 5?


----------



## thrshr01

chosenFEW said:


> i think gsp let hardy out of that sub... he didn't want to break his arm.
> 
> saw how he looked at his coaches


I agree, he could have easily ripped his arm out! I think that's just how classy he is. Hardy's heart saved him twice!


----------



## Hellboy

Is GSP doesn't finish him he should be criticized.


----------



## Gonzo

I think GSP is taking it 'easy' on him...


----------



## xeberus

I hate to say it... I think gsp might have let that kimura slide as to not seriously damage hardy 

got heart that kid


----------



## Guymay

god i hope they doesn't give him daley , it will be rerun of this and alves fight . please george safe pierre move up .

all in all Good sparring session for GSP


----------



## JimmyJames

I just stopped watching this fight....... GSP should have won already......

GSP is the most amazing athlete in MMA and Greg Jackson doesnt want him to pass?????

I just cant get over that.......


----------



## Dakota?

another boring grind fest by GSP.....


----------



## xeberus

my stream cut out with like 3 minutes left.. 

good fight hardy, no shame in losing a UD


----------



## Blitzz

Dakota? said:


> another boring grind fest by GSP.....


x2. Hopefully he fights Silva soon so we can watch the Spider wreck him.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Meh, what can you do. Some will say he's a classy guy for not ripping Dan's arm out of its socket, and others will say he's a fool for not snapping it in two. I wanted to see a finish myself, but you can't question how good this guy is in comparison to everyone else. How five rounds of dominating ground and pound with several submission attempts is something to 'criticize' is beyond me.


----------



## Drogo

I can't believe GSP didn't finish that. Give Hardy credit, I think most guys would have tapped to both the arm bar and the kimura. You can't say he didn't try to finish the fight.


----------



## adobostreak

not a scratch in dan hardy's face as expected.

edit: i got laughed at for saying this fight would play out the same as the fitch fight. was i wrong?


----------



## xbrokenshieldx

If GSP wants to be considered the best he has to finish fights... which he doesn't do... Not that impressed. 

BJ Penn and Anderson Silva >>>> GSP


----------



## TaprooT

props to hardy, but talk of GSP moving *up* is pure bullshit, he couldnt even finish this fight. Hardy is tough though! i knew he'd not go out easy. And GSP stop apologising, we know u wont come back better, because its always the same.


----------



## Blitzz

GSP's post fight interview explains it all. If he truly wants to be p4p best of all time, he should be beating people at their strength.


----------



## vandalian

Come on. Hardy is obviously very tough.


----------



## UFCFAN89

Hardy just earned a bunch of respect in my book. Kid has unbelievable heart.


----------



## michelangelo

I honestly believe GSP let go of the armbar as well as the kimura. If he had torqued Hardy's arms on either occasion, he could have seriously injured him. GSP just wanted Hardy to tap and refused to injure him seriously. 

Seriously, Hardy was helpless on both submission attempts: GSP let go. 



Canadian Psycho said:


> Meh, what can you do. Some will say he's a classy guy for not ripping Dan's arm out of its socket, and others will say he's a fool for not snapping it in two. I wanted to see a finish myself, but you can't question how good this guy is in comparison to everyone else. How five rounds of dominating ground and pound with several submission attempts is something to 'criticize' is beyond me.


----------



## UrbanBounca

xbrokenshieldx said:


> If GSP wants to be considered the best he has to finish fights... which he doesn't do... Not that impressed.
> 
> BJ Penn and Anderson Silva >>>> GSP


How? GSP beat Penn twice, and one was by TKO.


----------



## evilstevie

jesus that was terrible.

GSP is so afraid of getting hit, he turns every fight into a wrestling match.

<yawn>

I'd love to see GSP fight someone a little bigger, so that he couldn't do that ....but he won't.

Remind me never to buy another GSP card......


----------



## xbrokenshieldx

vandalian said:


> Come on. Hardy is obviously very tough.


Obviously, I am more impressed with Hardy tonight than I am with GSP. The point is Hardy isn't the fighter that Kenny Florian, Diego Sanchez, Rich Franklin, Nate Marquardt, Sean Sherk or Joe Stevenson (Maybe) are. And they were all finished by other fighters. I don't doubt GSP has great wrestling, but he needs to finish fights if he wants to go down as the best p4p fighter.


----------



## Dakota?

UrbanBounca said:


> How? GSP beat Penn twice, and one was by TKO.


BJ Penn now would murderrape the old BJ Penn....


----------



## Hellboy

If BJ Penn can fight Lyoto Machida then surely the "greatest athlete in MMA" can fight at Middleweight.


----------



## chosenFEW

xbrokenshieldx said:


> If GSP wants to be considered the best he has to finish fights... which he doesn't do... Not that impressed.
> 
> BJ Penn and Anderson Silva >>>> GSP



supposedly the best boxer out there is Floyd Mayweather....

and guess what?.... he doesn't finish fights and some even call him boring (ex: Dana White). the point is these guys find ways to win their opponent every time.


----------



## UFCFAN89

xbrokenshieldx said:


> If GSP wants to be considered the best he has to finish fights... which he doesn't do... Not that impressed.
> 
> BJ Penn and Anderson Silva >>>> GSP


Didn't GSP finish Penn their 2nd fight? 

You sir, are an idiot. And Im a Penn fan lol.


----------



## Freiermuth

Canadian Psycho said:


> Meh, what can you do. Some will say he's a classy guy for not ripping Dan's arm out of its socket, and others will say he's a fool for not snapping it in two. I wanted to see a finish myself, but you can't question how good this guy is in comparison to everyone else. How five rounds of dominating ground and pound with several submission attempts is something to 'criticize' is beyond me.


Agreed, I don't understand the critics much in this case either. I would have liked him to keep it standing the last few minutes but that's probably why I'm not one of his corner-men


----------



## Iuanes

I was fairly certain Hardy wasn't going to tap to anything after seeing prime time. Wasn't a fan of him against GSP but am going to cheer for him against the WW division.

It looks like GSP fell in love with the submission. But honestly, I think Hardy will prove to be notoriously hard hard to finish in his career.

GSP fails in this fight relative to the GSP standard. He won, but the fans and he himself wanted the finish.


----------



## Drogo

michelangelo said:


> I honestly believe GSP let go of the armbar as well as the kimura. If he had torqued Hardy's arms on either occasion, he could have seriously injured him. GSP just wanted Hardy to tap and refused to injure him seriously.
> 
> Seriously, Hardy was helpless on both submission attempts: GSP let go.


I don't think so. GSP knows he would get a ton of shit if he didn't finish Hardy, he wanted to end that. I think Hardy just is very flexible and determined. I also expect we will find out Hardy has some damage to his arms, muscle or ligament tears.


----------



## deadmanshand

That fight just proved to me that the nice guy that GSP has been protrayed as is the real deal. He didn't want to break the guy's arm. He knew he could have finished it either time but he would rather win by decision than possibly end somebody's career.

Hardy is tough. Not too bright but tough.


----------



## LV 2 H8 U

UFCFAN89 said:


> Hardy just earned a bunch of respect in my book. Kid has unbelievable heart.


Absolutely!
I think I respect Hardy more for that fight than GSP.
What a huge set of balls Hardy must have.

GSP has great TDs and is very predictable with both his standup and ground game, but he is unstoppable regardless it seems.


----------



## UrbanBounca

Dakota? said:


> BJ Penn now would murderrape the old BJ Penn....


Do you honestly think that Penn could beat GSP at WW? Wow, just wow.

GSP should've finished the fight. It'd be Hardy's idiot-self that didn't tap before getting his arm snapped clean off his body.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Dakota? said:


> BJ Penn now would murderrape the old BJ Penn....


Agreed... and GSP kicked _both_ their asses. :thumb03:


----------



## 420atalon

Hardy definitely deserves props for not tapping on either the armbar or kimura. GSP had both sunk in very tight and Hardy refused to tap, almost any other fighter would have been finished in the first round by that armbar.


----------



## hvendlor

Hardy won more fans in that fight than GSP.

He didn't inflict hardly any damage at all, just smothered and controlled him the whole fight.

Seems to me now that it's not a case of who can beat GSP in the division, nobody can, but who can GSP finish. 

He's so good at controlling a fight and that's all he does.


----------



## xbrokenshieldx

UrbanBounca said:


> How? GSP beat Penn twice, and one was by TKO.


I don't doubt GSP can beat Penn, I am referring to P4P status. GSP walked into the octagon probably weighing 190 for both fights, Penn most likely walked in at 166 or 170 TOPS. Besides that point, maybe GSP is the best p4p fighter, but he isn't going to be considered the best unless he finishes fights. For instance, look at all of the great boxers in history. There are many boxers who had great records but didn't finished fights, but they aren't considered the best. Great fighters finish fights.


----------



## Iuanes

LV 2 H8 U said:


> Absolutely!
> I think I respect Hardy more for that fight than GSP.
> What a huge set of balls Hardy must have.
> 
> GSP has great TDs and is very predictable with both his standup and ground game, but he is unstoppable regardless it seems.


If GSP was predictable he wouldn't be unstoppable. He outstruck Hardy and took him down at will. The only place he is predictable is on the ground where there are naturally less possibilities.


----------



## LittleJoe

chosenFEW said:


> supposedly the best boxer out there is Floyd Mayweather....
> 
> and guess what?.... he doesn't finish fights and some even call him boring (ex: Dana White). the point is these guys find ways to win their opponent every time.


Floyd? Pffft. Manny Paq is the best. Floyd wants nothing to do with him.


----------



## aerius

Iuanes said:


> It looks like GSP fell in love with the submission. But honestly, I think Hardy will prove to be notoriously hard hard to finish in his career.


Looks like it. There were a lot of opportunities for him to drop elbows, punches and knees on Hardy to soften him up some more instead of fighting for position on all the submission attempts & transistions. Got side control? Cool, hit him with a bunch of knees in the ribs & kidneys then hammerfist him in the head when he starts rolling or covering up. Beat him up, try a sub, pound on him some more. In short, needs more pound in the ground & pound, which today was closer to a ground & submit.

And more spinning back kicks and superman punch to kick combos.


----------



## UrbanBounca

xbrokenshieldx said:


> I don't doubt GSP can beat Penn, I am referring to P4P status. GSP walked into the octagon probably weighing 190 for both fights, Penn most likely walked in at 166 or 170 TOPS. Besides that point, maybe GSP is the best p4p fighter, but he isn't going to be considered the best unless he finishes fights. For instance, look at all of the great boxers in history. There are many boxers who had great records but didn't finished fights, but they aren't considered the best. Great fighters finish fights.


He has 20 wins, and six of those went to decision. You, my friend, are talking out of your ass.


----------



## chosenFEW

LittleJoe said:


> Floyd? Pffft. Manny Paq is the best. Floyd wants nothing to do with him.



we wont know until they fight. and I said SUPPOSEDLY...


besides why do you think manny stays in the phillipines for so long?.... to get his steroid fix on.

i like manny as a fighter too... just calling it how i see it so far

as for GSP.... WHO'S NEXT?... koscheck? thiago took him out... its going to be the same thing all over again


----------



## deadmanshand

UrbanBounca said:


> He has 20 wins, and six of those went to decision. You, my friend, are talking out of your ass.


Quoted for truth.


----------



## LV 2 H8 U

Iuanes said:


> If GSP was predictable he wouldn't be unstoppable. He outstruck Hardy and took him down at will. The only place he is predictable is on the ground where there are naturally less possibilities.


Do you think Hardy didnt know he was going to take him down with a single or a high crotch everytime he threw a punch at him? Or that he would throw superman punches to back him up a step to setup the TD? Or that he would immediately pass to half guard by pressing the knee and controlling the head?
The list could make a wall of words and the point is that everyone knows what he is going to do, but noone can stop it...IMO


----------



## Canadian Psycho

LV 2 H8 U said:


> Do you think Hardy didnt know he was going to take him down with a single or a high crotch everytime he threw a punch at him? Or that he would throw superman punches to back him up a step to setup the TD? Or that he would immediately pass to half guard by pressing the knee and controlling the head?
> The list could make a wall of words and the point is that everyone knows what he is going to do, but noone can stop it...IMO


And he should change this proven strategy just because everyone can see it coming, yet can't seem to thwart it...? I'm sorry, but you people reach. He didn't finish Alves, I give you that... but the man tore his groin. He turned Fitch's face into hamburger. He gave BJ about ten concussions. And I'll be damned if Hardy's arm isn't a wreck. Yeah... let's crucify the guy for being a boring, safe fighter.

:confused02:


----------



## Life B Ez

LV 2 H8 U said:


> Absolutely!
> I think I respect Hardy more for that fight than GSP.
> What a huge set of balls Hardy must have.
> 
> GSP has great TDs and is very predictable with both his standup and ground game, but he is unstoppable regardless it seems.


Hardy has got my respect just for not tapping in that armbar or the kimura, those were sick. It looked like GSP could easily broken his arm and shredded his shoulder if he had wanted to.


----------



## UrbanBounca

LittleJoe said:


> Floyd? Pffft. Manny Paq is the best. Floyd wants nothing to do with him.


If I'm not mistaken, Paquiao didn't want to take the required drug testing that Mayweather requested. It's not Mayweather that backed down. Paquiao backed down for a reason, and it's not "religion", like he'd stated.

For the record, I also think Paquiao is the best boxer in the world, but when you back down from someone that is undefeated for "drug testing", there is more to the story.

Now, back to the GSP v. Hardy fight. :thumb02:


----------



## LV 2 H8 U

Canadian Psycho said:


> And he should change this proven strategy just because everyone can see it coming, yet can't seem to thwart it...?
> 
> :confused02:


Hell no. Im not knocking GSP. Just stating a fact.


----------



## Life B Ez

Well so much for all that...


----------



## alizio

GSP did what GSP does. i dont know why anybody expected something different.

im happy cuz Dan seems to have earned some respect tonight, the kid has lots of heart but unless he reinvents himself he will never be a factor with the ground game he has right now.


----------



## Spec0688

LV 2 H8 U said:


> Do you think Hardy didnt know he was going to take him down with a single or a high crotch everytime he threw a punch at him? Or that he would throw superman punches to back him up a step to setup the TD? Or that he would immediately pass to half guard by pressing the knee and controlling the head?
> The list could make a wall of words and the point is that everyone knows what he is going to do, but noone can stop it...IMO


Yes, Everyone knows he is going for a takedown, but the factor is WHEN? You can try and protect the takedown, but you will be open for shots to the face, Thats what makes GSP so good, He doesnt just try to go for the takedown everytime even if its not there, he opens it up a bit. 

GSP is the best technical wrestler in MMA, without even doing any in college.


----------



## xbrokenshieldx

UrbanBounca said:


> He has 20 wins, and six of those went to decision. You, my friend, are talking out of your ass.


I understand that. And I dont want to be misunderstood and interpreted as saying GSP isn't a great fighter. My point is GSP came into the fight saying "I want to be considered the best fighter of all time". If that is true, he HAS to finish fighters like Hardy. That is my point. I agree he did finish a lot of fighters. But what matters is who he has finished. With the exception of Hughes, Trigg and an undersized Sherk, who has he actually finished (You can argue Penn, but he more tired Penn out than actually finished him). 

I think GSP is an exceptional fighter, I really do. My point is simply this: If he wants to be considered the best, he needs to start finishing opponents, especially opponents like Hardy.


----------



## WestCoastPoutin

xbrokenshieldx said:


> I understand that. And I dont want to be misunderstood and interpreted as saying GSP isn't a great fighter. My point is GSP came into the fight saying "I want to be considered the best fighter of all time". If that is true, he HAS to finish fighters like Hardy. That is my point. I agree he did finish a lot of fighters. But what matters is who he has finished. With the exception of Hughes, Trigg and an undersized Sherk, who has he actually finished (You can argue Penn, but he more tired Penn out than actually finished him).
> 
> I think GSP is an exceptional fighter, I really do. My point is simply this: If he wants to be considered the best, he needs to start finishing opponents, especially opponents like Hardy.


If he wants to be considered the best P4P fighter in the world, this victory will help him just as much as a finish would have.

If he finishes his career at 50-2, no one is gonna look back and say: "Yeah but he never finished Hardy!"

Come on man. Think about what you're writing down.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

I don't think anyone can say that GSP didn't do his damnedest to try and finish Hardy, but as was said, it became all about the submission, which effectively minimized his ground and pound. I'm not going to sit here and deny that I wanted a finish... indeed, I think GSP _should have_ been able to finish. But to sit here and criticize him for playing it safe, or laying and praying when he must have went for about 50 arm bars is beyond insane. No one's more disappointed in GSP right now than GSP. But even he would recognize that he tried, failure or not.


----------



## box

I want to find something to hate about Gsp, but I can't. He's way to dominate, but I can say i'm not really looking forward to his fights as much lately, you can almost depend on a repeat of this stragety every fight, since it is a winning one. 

Hardy on the other hand, he won just from sheer heart and pain tolerance, because damn that looked like it hurt.


----------



## deanmzi

Canadian Psycho said:


> Agreed... and GSP kicked _both_ their asses. :thumb03:


wouldn't say GSP kicked BJ's ass in their first fight, GSP was gettin rocked in round 1 and "old" BJ whithered faster then Bob Dole when the Viagra wears off.


----------



## coldcall420

chosenFEW said:


> i think gsp let hardy out of that sub... he didn't want to break his arm.
> 
> saw how he looked at his coaches


 
I agree with this but I was NOT impressed with GSP.....



YES...he dominated, but the fact is he should have won this fight in a much more convincing fashion and on multiple occasions, this "playing it safe" crap is getting old....


----------



## Roflcopter

I'm extremely disappointed GSP didn't finish that kimura. I hate when fighters are hesitant to break a limb when the guy refuses to tap. **** em. WAR AOKI!


----------



## footodors

I guess GSP is Brock Lesnar now. Take em down and ride em for the win.


----------



## Spec0688

xbrokenshieldx said:


> I understand that. And I dont want to be misunderstood and interpreted as saying GSP isn't a great fighter. My point is GSP came into the fight saying "I want to be considered the best fighter of all time". If that is true, he HAS to finish fighters like Hardy. That is my point. I agree he did finish a lot of fighters. But what matters is who he has finished. With the exception of Hughes, Trigg and an undersized Sherk, who has he actually finished (You can argue Penn, but he more tired Penn out than actually finished him).
> 
> I think GSP is an exceptional fighter, I really do. My point is simply this: If he wants to be considered the best, he needs to start finishing opponents, especially opponents like Hardy.


there are certain fighters who just dont quit or give up, You put almost any other fighter in those submissions, I guarantee they tap. We could be saying the same thing about Penn's last fight, He didnt really stop Deigo, He got a bad cut that forced the doc to call it, and it was also in the 5th round.

The top of the WW division is full of fighters who have a solid chin, and a good enough ground game to avoid submissions. Then you have guys like Fitch who can take a beating for probably 10 rounds on his back.


----------



## Life B Ez

chosenFEW said:


> i think gsp let hardy out of that sub... he didn't want to break his arm.
> 
> saw how he looked at his coaches


He clearly let him out of a couple, GSP is too nice a guy to break someones arm or shred their shoulder, because he easily could have.


----------



## xbrokenshieldx

coldcall420 said:


> I agree with this but I was NOT impressed with GSP.....
> 
> 
> 
> YES...he dominated, but the fact is he should have won this fight in a much more convincing fashion and on multiple occasions, this "playing it safe" crap is getting old....



This is a great post. And I agree 100%


----------



## deanmzi

I thought for sure GSP would sub Hardy at some point, but dam unless he could have choked him out then not sure what else GSP could have done, Hardy put up as good a defense as I guess we could expect. I kinda wish GSP would have stood w/ Hardy in rd 5 just to see if he couldn't win a round standing up, Hardy must have not had a lot left so I don't think GSP would have gotten KOed.


----------



## ashokjr

Actually, I gained more respect for GSP. He has 3 chances where he could have easily ripped Hardy's sockets off but didnt do it. He could punished Hardy more by dropping elbows or those deadly knees but didnt do that either. He knew he got the win and identified right away that Hardy poses no threat. He took it a lot easy and didnt do much damage to Hardy.

If GSP had sticked on to the kimura and ripped his hands off, all the people here saying "respect for Hardy" or "Hardy has heart" would be saying the "kid is an idiot for not tapping". I really thought he was stupid for not tapping.


----------



## HellRazor

Great technical fight by GSP
great heart by Hardy
Entertaining fight. If you're a martial arts instructor. Lots there to show your pupils.

But it was the Harlem Globetrotters vs the Washington Generals. GSP couldn't lose that fight unless he chose to stand with Hardy. And the one time he really hit Hardy while they were standing, he didn't drop him. As for the joint locks ... either Hardy is from another planet, or he has an _insane_ pain threshold. If you're coaching your fighter on how to end a fight, GSP got there perfectly _at least_ twice.

And no, when you're up 30-27 at least, in a five round fight, you can't rip the guy's arm out of it's socket. Greg Jackson would probably walk out on him if he did.

It sucks for St. Pierre, but as a former fighter, if I could say I went the distance against the calibre of fighter of Georges St. Pierre ... especially under that level of threat ...

Most of you won;t get this, but GSP is Deep Blue. He's Gary Kasparov. He's Carlos Newton with Matt Hughes power, and Randy Couture's brain. His positional ground game is _non pareil_. You see that he's vulnerable, and then he's transitioned before you can say '_____ has arm bar' or '_____ could get a triangle'. He attacks so much on the ground he's almost never at risk of being stood up. He attacks so much on the ground he doesn't get _booed_.

That fight must have had 22 of 25 minutes on the ground, and the crowd was into it. And we know they have zero tolerance for even a 3rd cousin of lnp.


You can't blame the guy for being good.


----------



## DragonStriker

GSP got the job done and showed why he is an amazing fighter.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

coldcall420 said:


> I agree with this but I was NOT impressed with GSP.....
> 
> 
> 
> YES...he dominated, but the fact is he should have won this fight in a much more convincing fashion and on multiple occasions, this "playing it safe" crap is getting old....


In all honesty, GSP would have finished almost anyone else in the world tonight with those submission attempts so I can't say that he didn't try to finish the fight. As for playing it safe, why wouldn't he wrestle the whole fight if that is what always worked for him? Don't fix it if it isn't broken. GSP knows that if he wrestles and fights on the ground, then he will win, so why would he play into Hardy's strength and strike? 

I think that it is very intelligent that GSP always plays to his strengths.


----------



## Spec0688

HellRazor said:


> Great technical fight by GSP
> great heart by Hardy
> Entertaining fight. If you're a martial arts instructor. Lots there to show your pupils.
> 
> But it was the Harlem Globetrotters vs the Washington Generals. GSP couldn't lose that fight unless he chose to stand with Hardy. And the one time he really hit Hardy while they were standing, he didn't drop him. As for the joint locks ... either Hardy is from another planet, or he has an _insane_ pain threshold. If you're coaching your fighter on how to end a fight, GSP got there perfectly _at least_ twice.
> 
> And no, when you're up 30-27 at least, in a five round fight, you can't rip the guy's arm out of it's socket. Greg Jackson would probably walk out on him if he did.
> 
> It sucks for St. Pierre, but as a former fighter, if I could say I went the distance against the calibre of fighter of Georges St. Pierre ... especially under that level of threat ...
> 
> Most of you won;t get this, but GSP is Deep Blue. He's Gary Kasparov. He's Carlos Newton with Matt Hughes power, and Randy Couture's brain. His positional ground game is _non pareil_. You see that he's vulnerable, and then he's transitioned before you can say '_____ has arm bar' or '_____ could get a triangle'. He attacks so much on the ground he's almost never at risk of being stood up. He attacks so much on the ground he doesn't get _booed_.
> 
> That fight must have had 22 of 25 minutes on the ground, and the crown was into it. And we know they have zero tolerance for even a 3rd cousin of lnp.
> 
> 
> You can't blame the guy for being good.


damn, nicely written. I agree with you 100% about the fans, Regardless if GSP finishes fights, he entertains fans by constantly trying to improve position, attacking from everywhere and going for subs.


----------



## WestCoastPoutin

HellRazor said:


> Great technical fight by GSP
> great heart by Hardy
> Entertaining fight. If you're a martial arts instructor. Lots there to show your pupils.
> 
> But it was the Harlem Globetrotters vs the Washington Generals. GSP couldn't lose that fight unless he chose to stand with Hardy. And the one time he really hit Hardy while they were standing, he didn't drop him. As for the joint locks ... either Hardy is from another planet, or he has an _insane_ pain threshold. If you're coaching your fighter on how to end a fight, GSP got there perfectly _at least_ twice.
> 
> And no, when you're up 30-27 at least, in a five round fight, you can't rip the guy's arm out of it's socket. Greg Jackson would probably walk out on him if he did.
> 
> It sucks for St. Pierre, but as a former fighter, if I could say I went the distance against the calibre of fighter of Georges St. Pierre ... especially under that level of threat ...
> 
> Most of you won;t get this, but GSP is Deep Blue. He's Gary Kasparov. He's Carlos Newton with Matt Hughes power, and Randy Couture's brain. His positional ground game is _non pareil_. You see that he's vulnerable, and then he's transitioned before you can say '_____ has arm bar' or '_____ could get a triangle'. He attacks so much on the ground he's almost never at risk of being stood up. He attacks so much on the ground he doesn't get _booed_.
> 
> That fight must have had 22 of 25 minutes on the ground, and the crown was into it. And we know they have zero tolerance for even a 3rd cousin of lnp.
> 
> 
> You can't blame the guy for being good.



Great post man.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Spec0688 said:


> damn, nicely written. I agree with you 100% about the fans, Regardless if GSP finishes fights, he entertains fans by constantly trying to improve position, attacking from everywhere and going for subs.


And you'd think that if the meathead beer swillers were entertained by it, so too would the elitist keyboard warriors. Boggles the mind, it does.


----------



## Life B Ez

HitOrGetHit said:


> In all honesty, GSP would have finished almost anyone else in the world tonight with those submission attempts so I can't say that he didn't try to finish the fight. As for playing it safe, why wouldn't he wrestle the whole fight if that is what always worked for him? Don't fix it if it isn't broken. GSP knows that if he wrestles and fights on the ground, then he will win, so why would he play into Hardy's strength and strike?
> 
> I think that it is very intelligent that GSP always plays to his strengths.


Exactly, I hate when people say he's playing it safe, if you can win the fight, win the fight. It doesn't matter if it's entertaining or not, win the fight. Why should GSP stand with a guy that could put him to sleep when he could just as easily take him down and dominate the entire fight? And he was pretty clearly trying to end it and I think anybody else in there would have tapped, did you see that Kimura?


----------



## HellRazor

Life B Ez said:


> He clearly let him out of a couple, GSP is too nice a guy to break someones arm or shred their shoulder, because he easily could have.


Agree. When Hardy decide to roll out of that armbar, GSP could have twisted the other way and ended the fight. But Hardy would no longer have the use of that arm, perhaps permanently.

I recal quite clearly that one day while sparring in calss against a very aggressive partner, I saw something.

Just 'saw'. I thought. And the next moment, our instructor tackled me.

"What the .. sir." I said. He said "You were about to plan _____'s face into the floor." I said "Yes but ...." And stopped. 

Sometimes, when you're fighting, the opportunity to win by crippling the opponent for life does show up. If you need to win so badly you go for that, that's what war is for. Not mma.


----------



## michelangelo

After GSP's last fight, internet geeks were already complaining that GSP was a boring LnP-er. I thought that was over the top, as GSP was clearly landing damaging blows to Alves.

However, in this fight, some of those complaints are ALMOST justified. It is true that GSP's ground game is absolutely scintillating and fun to watch, but he wasn't landing or even attempting very many strikes, despite Greg Jackson's direction and admonition to do so, during every break. 

Ultimately, I thought GSP was too much of a gentleman to break the kid's arm or tear up some ligaments. He let go, and Hardy was left undamaged to fight and smirk another day.


----------



## footodors

Snoozefest. he needs to move up and fight wanderlei.


----------



## IP4K

Gsp is a great fighter boring as hell to watch!


----------



## Life B Ez

HellRazor said:


> Agree. When Hardy decide to roll out of that armbar, GSP could have twisted the othe way and ended the fight. But Hardy would no longer have the use of that arm, perhaps permanently.
> 
> I recal quite clearly that one day while sparring in calss against a very aggressive partner, I saw something.
> 
> Just 'saw'. I thought. And the next moment, our instructor tackled me.
> 
> "What the .. sir." I said. He said "You were about to plan _____'s face into the floor." I said "Yes but ...." And stopped.
> 
> Sometimes, when you're fighting, the opportunity to win by crippling the opponent for life does show up. If you need to win so badly you go for that, that's what war is for. Not mma.


Yeah and it's not like it was a close fight, GSP was never even close to danger, I don't think he would have found it if he went looking for it. I think had that fight been close, GSP would have something to mount on his wall.


----------



## UrbanBounca

footodors said:


> Snoozefest. he needs to move up and fight wanderlei.


What? Why would he fight Wanderlei? When people say "Silva", they're talking about Anderson.


----------



## lpbigd4444

footodors said:


> I guess GSP is Brock Lesnar now. Take em down and ride em for the win.


woooooooooooooooow Lesnar has finished everyone but Herring and thats because he WANTED to beat his ass for 3 rounds. And GSP was close to finishing this fight several times. If u hate grappling go watch K-1


----------



## xbrokenshieldx

michelangelo said:


> After GSP's last fight, internet geeks were already complaining that GSP was a boring LnP-er. I thought that was over the top, as GSP was clearly landing damaging blows to Alves.
> 
> However, in this fight, some of those complaints are ALMOST justified. It is true that GSP's ground game is absolutely scintillating and fun to watch, but he wasn't landing or even attempting very many strikes, despite Greg Jackson's direction and admonition to do so, during every break.
> 
> Ultimately, I thought GSP was too much of a gentleman to break the kid's arm or tear up some ligaments. He let go, and Hardy was left fight and smirk another day.



This is exactly how I felt. No doubt he is a tremendous fighter. And I have defended him in past for being a 'boring' fighter. But what I think is most troubling is he has some of the bes GNP in MMA. But he hasn't used it at all. He just takes people down and adjusts position. He has the skills to finish fights, it just seems like he is reluctant to do so at times.


----------



## TraMaI

Don't know how people though that was boring. Absolute clinic on the floor from GSP.


----------



## box

Gsp needs that superfight right now in his career. It has to be Anderson Silva, otherwise Dana hates children and black people.


----------



## AK-Bronco

Seriously, Dan Hardy had four wins in he UFC. Josh Koscheck and John Fitch would have tooled Dan for three rounds, just like GSP. But hey, UFC can say they had a title challenger from G.B. Better that then let Hardy get KTFO like Bisping.


----------



## lpbigd4444

TraMaI said:


> Don't know how people though that was boring. Absolute clinic on the floor from GSP.


i absolutely agree:thumb02:


----------



## michelangelo

Hmmm, it was a bit like watching Michael Jordan score 30 but only while shooting jump shots. Yeah, it's still Michael Jordan. But then again, it's really not a true Michael Jordan performance unless you see Air Jordan throw down a cradle jam or dunk in somebody's face. :thumb02:




TraMaI said:


> Don't know how people though that was boring. Absolute clinic on the floor from GSP.


----------



## footodors

Anderson would destroy gsp with 1 arm behind his back.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Aye, watching GSP attempt subs for five rounds, and seeing Hardy taken to the brink yet still not tap, I thought, was tremendous. I hate to lecture others fans, but it's MMA, lads. Ground control and submission attempts are still a fairly large part of the game. Can't all be broken teeth and open wounds. As I've said, and I'll reiterate, I also wanted to see St. Pierre finish Hardy. But not to the point where I'd let it ruin a good fight for me were it not to happen. That's enough from me on the issue... some clearly loved it, and some clearly hated it. To each his own.


----------



## The_Nightmare

GSP is just unstoppable to be fair. it was good of him not to wreck hardy's arm cause im sure he could've that said got to give hardy a lot of respect for his heart. he knew just aswell as GSP did that his arm could have got destroyed but he still wouldn't tap. GSP waould've had to break his arm cause hardy wasn't tapping.

it was funny at the end GSP was asking if he was double jointed and how he didn't tap and dan hardy said "im a bit crazy." i always liked hardy but i like even more now. some people were saying he was stupid not to tap but i think thats inspirational really.

everybody in welterweight may aswell just go home though cause nobody's getting a sniff of GSP's belt.


----------



## michelangelo

I've been saying this for a while. 

I think GSP is smart enough to dabble in the MW division, take on two or three contenders, win all of his fights, then return to WW, when some malcontent at 170 lbs. whines about not getting a title shot after a 2 fight win streak (can anyone say BJ Penn?!?). 

Anderson is 4" taller, 20-25 lbs. heavier before a weight cut, and has muay thai the likes of which GSP has never, ever seen. 

I know Dana is goofy enough to try to make GSP vs. Anderson Silva; let's hope GSP is bright enough to duck it. 



footodors said:


> Anderson would destroy gsp with 1 arm behind his back.


----------



## The_Nightmare

AK-Bronco said:


> Seriously, Dan Hardy had four wins in he UFC. Josh Koscheck and John Fitch would have tooled Dan for three rounds, just like GSP. But hey, UFC can say they had a title challenger from G.B. Better that then let Hardy get KTFO like Bisping.


hardy was just in the right place at the right time its nothing to do with the fact he's british. plus for the record josh koscheck is a whiny bitch. it would love to watch dan hardy smash his annoying face in. that would top it off for me after getting to watch frank mir get his face melted for the second time.


----------



## Hawndo

Hawndo said:


> fap over chat roullete
> 
> and if he loses......
> 
> fap over chat roullete,
> 
> 
> that's just how I roll.


For the record this was a joke before some other asshole that can't take a joke neg reps me.


----------



## HellRazor

michelangelo said:


> Hardy was left fight and smirk another day.


Hardy may smirk, but it won't be about GSP. True, it was technical, but Dan Hardy got 'ragdolled'. 

T'ain't nothing like a good solid asskickin' to teach you what you need to learn. 

But he came out of it a commodity. Dan Hardy vs Josh Koscheck, Dan Hardy vs Jon Fitch, Dan Hardy vs Thiago Alves, all GOLDEN #3 fights on a PPV. If Hardy spend the next year aggressive learning takedown defense, a rematch is even sale-able. In England or Ireland.

Hardy is the kind of guy who can look into the camera in Spring or Summer 2011, and say _'I thought I was ready, and he showed me what I needed to learn. NOW I'm ready.'_ And folks will buy it.

Dana White wins again.


----------



## AK-Bronco

Kos has a 12-4 record in the UFC and he is a scub? Diego Sanchez, Dustin Hazelett, Chris lytle, Frank Trigg and Anthony Johnson ring a bell?


----------



## TraMaI

HellRazor said:


> Hardy may smirk, but it won't be about GSP. True, it was technical, but Dan Hardy got 'ragdolled'.
> 
> T'ain't nothing like a good solid asskickin' to teach you what you need to learn.
> 
> But he came out of it a commodity. Dan Hardy vs Josh Koscheck, Dan Hardy vs Jon Fitch, Dan Hardy vs Thiago Alves, all GOLDEN #3 fights on a PPV. If Hardy spend the next year aggressive learning takedown defense, a rematch is even sale-able. In England or Ireland.
> 
> Hardy is the kind of guy who can look into the camera in Spring or Summer 2011, and say _'I thought I was ready, and he showed me what I needed to learn. NOW I'm ready.'_ And folks will buy it.
> 
> Dana White wins again.


Fitch/Hardy would be just like GSP/Hardy


----------



## LOJ

Obviously not the way Georges wanted to win this fight, but at the end of the day; Hardy got destroyed in every aspect of MMA.


----------



## cdtcpl

I give a lot of respect to GSP for actually trying to finish this fight. Against Fitch and Alves I thought he was just willing to work towards a decision, in this fight he clearly tried to win it several times. 

On a side note, I was tempted to root against him when I noticed he had the douche pencil beard.


----------



## HellRazor

footodors said:


> Snoozefest. he needs to move up and fight wanderlei.





IP4K said:


> Gsp is a great fighter boring as hell to watch!


I think you guys are probably closer to the average mma fan than I am. To me, that was a _very_ entertaining fight. Competitive? No. But as a display of both how to use technical superiority, AND as an example of how to keep fighting when _facing_ technical superiority, it was great.

I love a good bloodbath, but technical mma is cool too.


----------



## michelangelo

GSP's next opponent should train with Chuck Liddell to learn *the exquisite art of the takedown defense.* Without this, the cause is lost...


----------



## LOJ

Dan Hardy talked about not giving up and not quitting but in reality..

Who cares, you just got dominated by someone you said you could knock out with ease.

Dan Hardy didn't belong in there with GSP, case closed.


----------



## BrutalKO

michelangelo said:


> GSP's next opponent should train with Chuck Liddell to learn *the exquisite art of the takedown defense.* Without this, the cause is lost...


...Ummmm...dude- GSP's takedowns have proven unstoppable. His wrestling is off the charts. *Nobody in the WW division can stop them*. It's been proven multiple times. GSP's shot is so fast, powerful and well timed. His transitions are incredible as well. Hardy could barely be on his feet for a few seconds...


----------



## HellRazor

TraMaI said:


> Fitch/Hardy would be just like GSP/Hardy


Not ... quite.

Fitch doesn't react as fast as GSP, on the ground, under threat. GSP's transitions are the ground are silky smooth.

Fitch's hands aren't as good as GSP, so Hardy could take more risks in the standup. 

Hardy would get something out of that rubber guard. 

Fitch also isn't .... don't wanna say 'fast' .... as efficient(?) .... as GSP in takedowns.


But it was amarketing point, really. Fitch-Hardy is a fight that's PPV worthy. It won't _carry_ a PPV, but for sure nobdy gonna be saying 'who dat'.


----------



## truebluefan

Georges St. Pierre is one hell of a fighter!


----------



## truebluefan

HellRazor said:


> I think you guys are probably closer to the average mma fan than I am. To me, that was a _very_ entertaining fight. Competitive? No. But as a display of both how to use technical superiority, AND as an example of how to keep fighting when _facing_ technical superiority, it was great.
> 
> I love a good bloodbath, but technical mma is cool too.


I agree with you


----------



## ESPADA9

Canadian Psycho said:


> Aye, watching GSP attempt subs for five rounds, and seeing Hardy taken to the brink yet still not tap, I thought, was tremendous. I hate to lecture others fans, but it's MMA, lads. Ground control and submission attempts are still a fairly large part of the game. Can't all be broken teeth and open wounds. As I've said, and I'll reiterate, I also wanted to see St. Pierre finish Hardy. But not to the point where I'd let it ruin a good fight for me were it not to happen. That's enough from me on the issue... some clearly loved it, and some clearly hated it. To each his own.


Watching GSP dominate and take it to the ground at will is amazing and Hardy resisted taking a beating better than I expected.
Still I would have preferred a more dynamic fight with some stand up.
I think GSP could have done well had he kept it standing, Alves was far more dangerous in the standup than Hardy (IMHO).

I think GSP has underrated stand up for two reasons.
One because he doesn’t usually finish fights with his striking so people assume he has no KO power.
Two he relies on his superior wrestling, top control and submissions.

His striking is extremely high level is you think about it, he’s just not setting up for the one big shot like some fighters.


----------



## BrutalKO

HellRazor said:


> I think you guys are probably closer to the average mma fan than I am. To me, that was a _very_ entertaining fight. Competitive? No. But as a display of both how to use technical superiority, AND as an example of how to keep fighting when _facing_ technical superiority, it was great.
> 
> I love a good bloodbath, but technical mma is cool too.


...Great point. I agree with you fully. See, that's what separates fans who understand the game and enjoy *all* aspects of MMA as opposed to the ones who aren't realistic. GSP is *NOT* boring as hell. It's all about making your opponent fight your fight. Georges has mastered that technique. Wrestling 101 at it's finest...


----------



## footodors

Since he got pumeeled by Serra, he's not keen on standup anymore.


----------



## rabakill

BrutalKO said:


> ...Ummmm...dude- GSP's takedowns have proven unstoppable. His wrestling is off the charts. *Nobody in the WW division can stop them*. It's been proven multiple times. GSP's shot is so fast, powerful and well timed. His transitions are incredible as well. Hardy could barely be on his feet for a few seconds...


I believe Dan could beat GSP with some strong TDD and some patience. Joe Rogan mentioned Hardy's Mua Thai style had him standing very upright, the result being a very high center of gravity. Dan kept committing to the strikes while keeping that center of gravity high. The key is to fight like Anderson Silva and be more patient and not commit to those punches. Dan really showed how strong and fit he was where at the end of the first and second he was hardly breathing at all. To win he has to bend his knees more and lower his hands a little to prevent the shot, GSP doesn't commit to punches and Dan doing so was absolutely foolish against this type of opponent. The problem right now is Hardy does not have the coaches to change his fighting style, he needs a complete rebuild where he focuses on TDD and fighting a much more technical game, I do think an equally skilled Hardy would beat GSP because he seemed like he had much faster hands and he was much stronger in his upper body, the ability to prevent any serious ground and pound showed this.


----------



## AK-Bronco

footodors said:


> Since he got pumeeled by Serra, he's not keen on standup anymore.


Did you even watch the Fitch fight?


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy

This is only my opinion, but I can't help but feel jobbed Right now. We all know how Dana white is trying to expand, and appeal to the overseas market, and it's obvious GSP is a team player. I can just picture Dana whispering in GSP's ear "don't humiliate him too bad".

Seriously, St. Pierre was on cruise control toniht, just like Anderson Silva a couple of fights ago. I've watches GSP wreck far better opponents, and to me, the way this fiht played out kind of ruins the legitimacy of the W as well as the sport.

GSP has turned into matt hughes!

Where was the mixed bag of striking he employed against serra, and fitch? Where was the lethal GnP he demolished Penn with? Technically GSP looked terrible, leaving far too much space for hardy to manuever on the ground, sliding off his back.

Props to hardy for not tapping and getting a different kind of break, but did he even want that belt? You're not going to do anyhing to georges by throwing one punch, was a single combo thrown in 25 minutes?

It seems to me GSP figured since he was that much better than hardy and was just going to play with him, but IMO if you're that much better than someone, finish the freaking fight!


----------



## TraMaI

HellRazor said:


> Not ... quite.
> 
> Fitch doesn't react as fast as GSP, on the ground, under threat. GSP's transitions are the ground are silky smooth.
> 
> Fitch's hands aren't as good as GSP, so Hardy could take more risks in the standup.
> 
> Hardy would get something out of that rubber guard.
> 
> Fitch also isn't .... don't wanna say 'fast' .... as efficient(?) .... as GSP in takedowns.
> 
> 
> But it was amarketing point, really. Fitch-Hardy is a fight that's PPV worthy. It won't _carry_ a PPV, but for sure nobdy gonna be saying 'who dat'.


I sort of agree with you, but then I disagree as well. You're right in the fact that Fitch's hands aren't as good, but Hardy wouldn't get crap out of his rubber guard. We've seen Jon in MANY deep subs and get out. And while GSP is more proficient in his takedowns, Jon has a lot more diversity to his and I don't think Hardy could stop them. Jon isn't a guy to just double and single shoot constantly. Jon works off body clinches, trips, throws etc. He's far more of a complete grappler than a wrestler and I think that's what a lot of people miss about him. I also think that's why no one has found a solution for beating him because they see him and think "wrestler" when, like I said, he's really a great all around grappler. He has a multitude of takedown attempts, he's VERY good at neutralizing guards, he's very, very good at maintaining control and position and while he may not attempt to pass much, when the opportunity presents itself he definitely isn't too shy to jump on it.


----------



## Indestructibl3

Good performance by GSP, good to see him really going after the finish - Hardy's just one tough SOB.


----------



## No_Mercy

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> This is only my opinion, but I can't help but feel jobbed Right now. We all know how Dana white is trying to expand, and appeal to the overseas market, and it's obvious GSP is a team player. I can just picture Dana whispering in GSP's ear "don't humiliate him too bad".
> 
> Seriously, St. Pierre was on cruise control toniht, just like Anderson Silva a couple of fights ago. I've watches GSP wreck far better opponents, and to me, the way this fiht played out kind of ruins the legitimacy of the W as well as the sport.
> 
> GSP has turned into matt hughes!
> 
> Where was the mixed bag of striking he employed against serra, and fitch? Where was the lethal GnP he demolished Penn with? Technically GSP looked terrible, leaving far too much space for hardy to manuever on the ground, sliding off his back.
> 
> Props to hardy for not tapping and getting a different kind of break, but did he even want that belt? You're not going to do anyhing to georges by throwing one punch, was a single combo thrown in 25 minutes?
> 
> It seems to me GSP figured since he was that much better than hardy and was just going to play with him, but IMO if you're that much better than someone, finish the freaking fight!


Everybody has their opinions. Some say it was a dominating performance some would say it was maybe even mediocre. A win is a win, and GSP dictated the pace. In any sport the one who can shape the way the game is played is usually the champ. Completely nullified his opponents game plan. 

On an ending note I hope everybody realizes how potent Anderson Silva and Fedor is now. Not to diminish GSP in ANY way, but the former two usually finish opponents in devastating fashion which is pretty amazing if you think about it. 

"I am a martial artist. He is not. He probably doesn't understand the meaning of this. After the fight, I guarantee he will."


----------



## SigFig

SigFig said:


> This thread is LOLZ...
> 
> *If one of these feared strikers wants to bang with GSP, how 'bout this.... {drumroll} Stop his effing takedowns!*...


In all seriousness: As much as I defend GSP and all that... Why can't anyone defend the frickin takedown??? Can we get a knee people?

I get it -- he's an athletic freak, but you might as well start the match with GSP in top control.


----------



## bedcommando

Gsp has a ton of skill there's no denying that. Against a guy like hardy he should have finished the fight. 

And don't get me wrong I love a good ground game (Maia) but I could barely bother to pay attention afterthe second round. Down, guard, pass, maybe some back work, but no finish. Mir blocking shots with his head was more entertaining.

Anyway not hating on gsp but ever since serra he's been semi reluctant to stand and do much more than pass guard over and over and over...


----------



## Danm2501

Absolutely awesome performance from Georges St-Pierre. I realistically never gave Dan a shot in this fight, and he was frankly out-classed. GSP didn't give him chance to land the big shot, and his takedowns were just unreal. There really was nothing Dan could do, I don't think there's anyone in the world that could handle GSP's grappling ability.

As for Dan, it proved he's not on the level of GSP, but definitely proved he's deserving of being in the top ranked group of fighters. I've never seen anyone show as much heart as that in a fight. I thought it was over in the 1st round, when the armbar was fully extended. But the Kimura was just unreal, I've never seen someone crank a kimura like that, how Dan survived that I don't know.

Have to agree with Georges too, for a first go at a title shot, against a guy as good as GSP, Dan did very well. I don't think anyone can help but respect both guys after that fight. Awesome stuff.


----------



## Danm2501

That's actually an interesting point. I know very little about wrestling technique, so what exactly is it that makes GSP's takedowns so successful? There must be more to it than the pure athleticism, as Koscheck is a very athletic guy too, and he got dominated by GSP too. Is it purely the speed and explosion of the takedown that makes him so effective?


----------



## limba

Well...
I should talk about the fight, which i think, once again proved GSP is one of the best fighters in the world. I don't wanna sound to much of a "nuthugger" but: you have this fighter (GSP): strong, athletic, lots of skills, incredible cardio, extremly smart (and the lists go on). He comes in this fight against a guy (Hardy), neutralizes his biggest strenght, dominates, puts a beating on him for 25 mins, almost stops the fight...and then, still there are are some who don't give GSP credit. I am just amazed by some of the posts i've read on this thread. And one of the most used words was "boring".
I respect all opinions, but i sure don't agree with all of them. And i won't agree with those opinions who label GSP as "boring". 
Unfortunatelly i think there are a lot of people who don't get this sport. MMA - mixed martial arts. There are some out here who are in love with the old-school UFC, those times when every red-neck and hill-billy got the chance to step in the cage and punch another one in the face. 
There are some who get more goose-bumps and excitement watching Todd Duffe's 7 seconds KO (don't have annything against Duffe). Or Ray Mercer KO'ing Tim Sylvia in 9 secs: crowd going crazy, people screaming: "did you see that?? wooow". See what?! One guy punching another guy out??? 
Or there are others who don't consider a fight boring unless on fighters is cut and losses half his blood on the cage floor. 
If you wanna see that, go to your local pub/bar and pick on somebody's girlfriend or start a fight. You don't need to spend money on a paper-view, and then complain you didn't get to see the KO you were waiting for..:sarcastic12:

It's just my opinion, but i don't get these MMA "fans". I'm not an expert, but i can appreciate a good MMA fight. And for what this sport stands for, GSP is one of the best at this game. I'm not denying the fact i would have loved to see GSP finnish the fight, but no way i would consider GSP's fights boring. If you have a passion for MMA and you wanna learn something, GSP's fights are a must see imo.
Once again. This is MMA and the A stands for ARTS. And GSP is one of the best ARTISTS in the business.

Best regards


----------



## Danm2501

I didn't find GSP's performance boring at all. I was just amazed watching him pass Hardy's guard with ease, and control exactly where he wanted the fight to take place. If he wanted to stay in guard, posture up and throw he could, or if he wanted to mount and throw he could, just the ease in which he dominated Hardy was unbelievable. I thought it was an awesome fight, made even better by Hardy's heart and will.


----------



## adobostreak

heh. i wasn't too far off.


----------



## HexRei

it might boring if one doesn't appreciate sub attempts, escapes and amazingly dominant ground game. then again, if that's the case, why watch MMA? it's like watching basebell and then complaining there is just entirely too much fielding and running, it should be all batting for homeruns!


----------



## Maaz

for all the people complaining that gsp didnt try to finish the fight...... did you not see the arm bar or the kimura? obviously any other fighter would have tapped, just happens that dan hardy doesnt know what tapping is.


----------



## limba

Danm2501 said:


> I didn't find GSP's performance boring at all. I was just amazed watching him pass Hardy's guard with ease, and control exactly where he wanted the fight to take place. If he wanted to stay in guard, posture up and throw he could, or if he wanted to mount and throw he could, just the ease in which he dominated Hardy was unbelievable. I thought it was an awesome fight, made even better by Hardy's heart and will.





HexRei said:


> it might boring if one doesn't appreciate sub attempts, escapes and amazingly dominant ground game. then again, if that's the case, why watch MMA? it's like watching basebell and then complaining there is just entirely too much fielding and running, it should be all batting for homeruns!


EXACTLY.
He imposed his will, in dominant fashion, tooke the fight wherever he wanted. Unfortunately, he couldn't control Hardy's amazing will, in not tapping.

I am glad there are fans out there who can appreciate a good fight.

HexRei: nice comparison with the baseball. :thumb02:


----------



## Rockstar189

Dan Hardy earned a ton of respect from me tonight. Everyone pretty much knew he would lose.. I was hoping he would win though. I love upsets. Gotta respect somebody who keeps on fighting like that that is very honorable. I also Loved the convo he had with GSP after about not tapping lol


----------



## Soojooko

I was 100% not expecting this fight. I was expecting GSP to come out looking supreme, but with a bit more striking. It was shocking how much of the fight was on the mat. Having said that, if I'm going to watch 20 minutes of fighting on the mat, I would prefer it was somebody like GSP who is never ever boring down there. But damn, I want to see this son of a bitch punch and kick a bit. I miss it.

As for Hardy, I'm still undecided. Its all very well assuming GSP let go of the submissions, but we are not talking about a lifeless twig here. Its an arm. Attached to a very strong bloke whos battling to free himself. I choose to believe what I always have and that is, Hardy is a difficult guy to hurt. Very difficult.

Now that this whole situation the UFC has created has passed, I can look forward to Hardys next 2 or 3 fights without the absurd hype. I very much want to see him against the top boys. Especially Alves.

And GSP... stay the WW champ. Keep dominating. Keep winning. Damn fecking right. Go down in history as the best WW ever with 30 wins under your belt son. All this talk about Silva. Please. Stop it. I dont even think GSP is interested.


----------



## Uchaaa

I didnt know that hardy vs gsp was a wrestling match. It would have been more fun if hardy would be competetive on the ground, but he wasnt. Very boring. That was like a klitschko fight.


----------



## limba

Soojooko said:


> I was 100% not expecting this fight. I was expecting GSP to come out looking supreme, but with a bit more striking. It was shocking how much of the fight was on the mat. Having said that, if I'm going to watch 20 minutes of fighting on the mat, I would prefer it was somebody like GSP who is never ever boring down there. But damn, I want to see this son of a bitch punch and kick a bit. I miss it.
> 
> As for Hardy, I'm still undecided. Its all very well assuming GSP let go of the submissions, but we are not talking about a lifeless twig here. Its an arm. Attached to a very strong bloke whos battling to free himself. I choose to believe what I always have and that is, Hardy is a difficult guy to hurt. Very difficult.
> 
> Now that this whole situation the UFC has created has passed, I can look forward to Hardys next 2 or 3 fights without the absurd hype. I very much want to see him against the top boys. Especially Alves.
> 
> And GSP... stay the WW champ. Keep dominating. Keep winning. Damn fecking right. Go down in history as the best WW ever with 30 wins under your belt son. All this talk about Silva. Please. Stop it. I dont even think GSP is interested.


I like your argumentation. And i'm not just saying this because i think the same way.
But. If you have to watch 20 minutes of a fight on the mat, GSP is in my Top 3 fighters i would love to see involved in a fight like that (Maia and Bones being the others, for different reasons of course). Definetly. I would like to hear GSP comment on his submission attempts. 
I also want GSP to continue at WW. I still think he isn't big enough for the MW division...not yet at least. 

As for Hardy, you are right. He has big big heart and seems to be tough. In a Jon Fitch way. Would like to see him against Rumble next. At least he won't have to worry about takedowns.


----------



## Soojooko

I'm still really disappointed. My heart was ready for some interesting striking. I actually bought into some of the hype on this very forum, that GSP was going to want to punch and kick Hardy. Smash him up a bit. On the other hand, I was as keen to see more of Hardys hands and kicks.

Blah.

I know, I know. It wasnt boring. It wasnt. I agree. BUT... who can honestly say they wouldn't have *prefered* to watch GSP show us more of his wares? We know he has so much striking technique.

At least we got to see Mir get punched in the face very very hard once again.

.


----------



## Baby Jay D.

I disagree with people saying it's not boring. 

The actual ground control and techniques GSP uses aren't boring but the fact everyone knows how his fights are going to play out, before it even takes place, makes it boring. GSP can do that for the next five years to every WW that comes up.

The division is becoming stale, he needs to move up to MW to challenge himself and his style. There isn't a WW alive that can stop that gameplan. At MW at least how he would do would be somewhat of an unknown at the upper level because at WW his fights just aren't interesting anymore.


----------



## LightweightFighter

Danm2501 said:


> That's actually an interesting point. I know very little about wrestling technique, so what exactly is it that makes GSP's takedowns so successful? There must be more to it than the pure athleticism, as Koscheck is a very athletic guy too, and he got dominated by GSP too. Is it purely the speed and explosion of the takedown that makes him so effective?


To be honest I think everyone of GSP's challenger just have no sprawl at all. Like BJ Penn has a funky way of defending takedowns but he never all out sprawl like say Chuck Liddell or Mirko in his prime days. 

It's also because GSP mixes his striking to takedown really well.


----------



## UKMMAGURU

*Dan Hardy did the UK proud*

I'm very proud of Dan Hardy this morning, the result went as expected but ofcourse it wasn't as us Hardy fans were hoping (praying?) but he showed alot of charactor against an opponent that is clearly a class above everyone in the WW catagory.

I'm definately at fault for being suckered into a place where i really thought Dan Hardy had a decent chance of winning, but i guess when you want something alot it's easily done. Despite the result i'm proud of Dan Hardy, he did England proud and he did his fans proud, he couldn't be on GSPs level but he hung on and refused to tap when probably 95% of fighters would have, he showed true English bulldog spirit.

Thank you Dan Hardy.


----------



## stevy1222

Dan Hardy gained my respect. That sub defense he had tonight was awesome!


----------



## Vale_Tudo

Baby Jay D. said:


> everyone knows how his fights are going to play out, before it even takes place, makes it boring.


You could pretty much say the same thing about Anderson Silva.
You know he's going to stand and strike, but for most people that Is more exciting.

Kind of strange how MMA is more popular than Boxing and Kickboxing if you think about It

I myself find grappling just as exciting, and I absolutely love seing a grappler like GSP just dominate their opponent. IMO Its the purest form of fighting, and In a magical land where Fedor, Anderson and GSP all weighed 200lbs and possessed exactly the same strengts and weaknessess I'd put Georges at the top!

P4P best fighter In the world


----------



## georgie17891

I have liked dan hardy ever since I saw him in cage warriors. I thought he put up a good fight and his sub defence was insane.


----------



## Rauno

The Brits weren't the only people he impressed. Dan Hardy has that lose-win thing going on at the moment. He lost, but still can feel like he won that night. He lasted 5 rounds against the best WW, or if not the best fighter in the world, and didn't tap out to an outrageous submission.


----------



## Diokhan

Hardy did great. I wanna see him against Kos or Alves next though.


----------



## stevy1222

For sure and he would NOT GIVE UP! after GSP hit him with that shot in the 2nd or 3rd (i believe) and he just smiled and stuck out his tongue was awesome. it showed that he wasn't afraid of taking a punch and wasn't scared of GSP.


----------



## Mckeever

*Dan Hardy, i tip my hat to you sir*

Ok. Ive always liked Dan and been a fan not just because im british but because of his heart, confidence and attitude. How ever, dan hardy gave a whole new meaning to the term "heart" last night. Those two submission attempts were absolutely ridiculous. I had to look away from the screen, thinking that Dan was going to potentially end his career, or seriously injure himself. I was in pure disbelief when he pulled through. That, is heart, unreal will power and discipline right there and i really just feel as if he deserves his own thread for those two accomplishments. 

If any one else feels the same way and if any one else has a new found respect for dan hardy, jump in this thread.


----------



## Emericanaddict

He was very classy in defeat aswell which makes me a very happy. Ive been a Hardy Supporter for a long time now and dude will only get better now. He has a alot tape to watch and learn from.

Also the tongue sticking thing was the lamest thing ive ever seen him do... well along with his stupid ass red contacts. The guy gave Davis shit for having a shtick but the guys has a red mohawk calls himself the outlaw, where's a stupid scarf with teeth, has stupid teeth on his moputh piece and last night topped it all off with stupid contacts. 

I like Hardy allot but the dude is a hell of a hypocrite.


----------



## Indestructibl3

Definitely agreed man, and he does deserve his own thread.

I do understand that offensively Hardy was completely shut down, but due to his heart and determination was able to hang in there and show us what he's made of. Quite similar to the GSP v Fitch fight, Hardy has won more fans in this one loss than he had with any of his wins.


----------



## Leed

Don't remember who, but before the PPV, someone here said something along the lines "I think Dan's going to lose, but I just hope that after the fight he will gain some respect.".
Obviously he did, and I'm glad. It hurt to even watch those sub attempts.


----------



## stevy1222

for sure. i was watching the fight with a bunch of GSP fans and cheered when hardy got out of that sick armbar and got food thrown at me. i still can't believe he got out of that vicious armbar and crazy kimura


----------



## Vale_Tudo

Mckeever said:


> That, is heart, unreal will power and discipline right there


What it is, is actually stupidity! 
Why risk throwing your entire career away because you have this "never tap tough guy" mentality.

Yes, It worked out fine this time, but who's to say the next guy wont shatter that arm and put him In the unemployment line


----------



## Mckeever

Vale_Tudo said:


> What it is, is actually stupidity!
> Why risk throwing your entire career away because you have this "never tap tough guy" mentality.
> 
> Yes, It worked out fine this time, but who's to say the next guy wont shatter that arm and put him In the unemployment line


*sighs* i wanted to avoid silly posts like this in the thread. Dan Hardy isnt stupid, he was in a lot of pain, but some how, he knew that in those two moments, he COULD pull through without breaking his arm, in his mind he knew it and he felt it. Heart, discipline, will power (and technique), thats all this was a display of.

It was amazing how in the prime time show dan said after training with the monks when he was 18, that if he could get through that, he could get through any thing. Fair play, he lived up to his word.


----------



## Baby Jay D.

Vale_Tudo said:


> What it is, is actually stupidity!


Actually, it's both. Stupidity and massive heart. It's in some fighters make-up to never say quit. That deserves respect.


----------



## stevy1222

Vale_Tudo said:


> What it is, is actually stupidity!
> Why risk throwing your entire career away because you have this "never tap tough guy" mentality.line


maybe its called PRIDE? maybe he had too much pride to tap?


----------



## Leed

I love how after the fight when Buffer announces the winner, Hardy walks up to GSP to congratulate him and asks "No pain?" pointing to the arm. Hardy just smiles and shakes his head. :thumb02:


----------



## UKMMAGURU

Leed said:


> I love how after the fight when Buffer announces the winner, Hardy walks up to GSP to congratulate him and asks "No pain?" pointing to the arm. Hardy just smiles and shakes his head. :thumb02:


Haha aye, i noticed Hardy even pointed to his temple as if to suggest pain is mental not physical.

:thumb02:


----------



## stevy1222

oh i bet the arm was hurting! the elbow and the shoulder


----------



## Vale_Tudo

Mckeever said:


> *sighs* i wanted to avoid silly posts like this in the thread.


And I want to avoid silly threads.



stevy1222 said:


> maybe its called PRIDE? maybe he had too much pride to tap?


Then lets hope he never moves up to MW and fights Palhares


----------



## Mckeever

Vale_Tudo said:


> And I want to avoid silly threads.
> 
> 
> 
> Then lets hope he never moves up to MW and fights Palhares


Look man, you obviously dont respect hardy after those escapes, instead your just calling him stupid (which i found ridiculous, it would of been stupid if he broke his arm, but he didnt, he powered through it and shown technique). So can you please just leave this thread, i dont want to get into a pointless argument. Thanks.


----------



## stevy1222

Vale_Tudo said:


> Then lets hope he never moves up to MW and fights Palhares


good thing he's a WW and isn't going to move up.
thats also like saying lets hope jake shields doesn't come from strikeforce and fights Hardy.

i don't see how having pride and not tapping is stupid


----------



## Mckeever

What a joke. Basically a grappling contest, without any significant damage inflicted on Hardy throughout the entire fight. I thought i watched mixed martial arts. Why doesnt George pursue his career in wrestling and try out the olympics? Im sorry but i want to watch mma, not wrestling grappling contests, to all those saying you love grappling and wrestling, then go and watch some god damn wrestling and grappling.


----------



## js9234

I'm pretty sure GSP just asked him if his arm is made of rubber. I thought GSP said that during the interview with Rogan. 




Leed said:


> I love how after the fight when Buffer announces the winner, Hardy walks up to GSP to congratulate him and asks "No pain?" pointing to the arm. Hardy just smiles and shakes his head. :thumb02:


----------



## Soojooko

Mckeever said:


> What a joke. Basically a grappling contest, without any significant damage inflicted on Hardy throughout the entire fight. I thought i watched mixed martial arts. Why doesnt George pursue his career in wrestling and try out the olympics? Im sorry but i want to watch mma, not wrestling grappling contests, to all those saying you love grappling and wrestling, then go and watch some god damn wrestling and grappling.


I dig your passion and whether I agree with you or not, this is wrong.

If we are happy to watch fights where the two fighters stand only, then we must be happy when a fight is mostly on the ground. Its MMA. If you like the striking so much, using your logic I could say to you, go watch god damn K-1. Know what I mean?

Of course, I wanted more striking too. But thats the sport... Thats all sport; Functional 90% of the time, with 10% reserved for the moments of beauty. GSP's grappling is mostly in that 10% anyway.


----------



## Baby Jay D.

Vale_Tudo said:


> You could pretty much say the same thing about Anderson Silva.
> You know he's going to stand and strike, but for most people that Is more exciting.


And Anderson moved up to 205 to challenge himself. As well as that, GSP can control where the fight goes, in theory, a better wrestler/Jitz guy can take Anderson down and test him on the ground. No-one is going to be able to control where the fights takes place against GSP at WW.



> I myself find grappling just as exciting, and I absolutely love seing a grappler like GSP just dominate their opponent.


I find grappling exciting also, as long as I know it's going to be somewhat competitive. If you 99.9% know the result before it happens, as in when GSP fights, it lessons the excitement of it imo.


----------



## Baby Jay D.

Double post....


----------



## Rusko

I can look excited for 3 rounds of grappling, its very interesting from time to time. No way I will look at it for 5 rounds with a belt on the line.

I mean props to GSP wrestling, but look at it as a 'fight' , no real damage was done after 25 mins of fighting.


Props to his wrestling, but I aint impressed by his overall skills and his smack talk about knocking him out, or submitting him.

I also tend to think he wount be able to use his wrestling skills the same way on higher weight division.


----------



## Danm2501

So McKeever, you weren't imbressed by GSP's berformance?

Seriously though, if you don't want to watch world class grapplers neutralising someones striking ability, you're watching the wrong sport. I thought GSP was entertaining, he was trying to finish the fight, and he just continues to dominate the best fighters in the world at 170.


----------



## Vale_Tudo

Mckeever said:


> So can you please just leave this thread, i dont want to get into a pointless argument. Thanks.


Listen, this Is an MMA Forum. If you dont want other peoples opinion then this Is the wrong place for you to post this.

Perhaps you should make some Dan Hardy fan website, write down your praise and have a "click here If you agree" button and see how many clicks you get.

I did however gain alot of respect for Dan tonight.
What i didnt like was his post fight comment about never tapping.

I dont want that mentality to be a standard in MMA or with the fans. 

Alright? I'll get out of your thread now!


----------



## Mckeever

Soojooko said:


> I dig your passion and whether I agree with you or not, this is wrong.
> 
> If we are happy to watch fights where the two fighters stand only, then we must be happy when a fight is mostly on the ground. Its MMA. If you like the striking so much, using your logic I could say to you, go watch god damn K-1. Know what I mean?
> 
> Of course, I wanted more striking too. But thats the sport... Thats all sport; Functional 90% of the time, with 10% reserved for the moments of beauty. GSP's grappling is mostly in that 10% anyway.


No (and no offence btw) but you are wrong. I like the ground game just as much as the next guy, i love seeing a good gound battle with Jujitsu, reversals and the rest, i also think the ground game involves ground and pound, trying to finish your opponent and do damage to them. Where was this in the fight? That isnt mma,that is pure wrestling/grappling. 

GSP wasnt doing any significant ground and pound in that fight, instead he just transitioned from position to position and out grappled hardy. mma is about damaging your opponents and finishing fights which can be achieved via wrestling (jon jones for example, damn gsp, but he certainly didnt show it in this fight). It is not the lack of striking im referring to or annoyed abot, this is to be expect in all of gsps fights, it was the fact that gsp was landing no ground and pound and even hurting hardy, what is that about? I have no interest in watching pure wrestling, like i said, this is mixed martial arts. Its supposed to be a fight.


----------



## stevy1222

Vale_Tudo said:


> I dont want that mentality to be a standard in MMA or with the fans.


about him saying he doesn't tap?


----------



## Mckeever

Vale_Tudo said:


> Listen, this Is an MMA Forum. If you dont want other peoples opinion then this Is the wrong place for you to post this.
> 
> Perhaps you should make some Dan Hardy fan website, write down your praise and have a "click here If you agree" button and see how many clicks you get.
> 
> I did however gain alot of respect for Dan tonight.
> What i didnt like was his post fight comment about never tapping.
> 
> I dont want that mentality to be a standard in MMA or with the fans.
> 
> Alright? I'll get out of your thread now!


This is more of an appreciation thread than any thing, i explained this in my OP at the end. You dont go into an appreciation thread and start bashing (the appreciator?) do you? So, thank you and goodbye.


----------



## tripster

What are you talking about? GSP bent Hardy's both arms off twice or three times in the fight. That's Jui Jitsu delivered at it super best.


----------



## Leed

Vale_Tudo said:


> What i didnt like was his post fight comment about never tapping.
> 
> I dont want that mentality to be a standard in MMA or with the fans.


I understand what you mean, as he could actually have a broken arm or something, but he was in the most important fight in his life. It's either lose or have atleast SOME chance to turn it around. At the end of the day there will be people who are willing to take that risk.


----------



## H-Deep

*To all those who said Hardy didnt deserve a shot*




















These are his last 3 defences (against 170 fighters) and yes i realise he dominated Hardy but he dominated everyone else he fought at 170 "who deserves a shot". Those images say a lot imo, id love to see Hardy against Alves next. I think gsp moves up a weight now and i think the 170 division will become super competitive again. The fact is theres no one who is gonna beat gsp at 170 now and theres no real reason to stay at 170. Respect to gsp, classy competitor however i think its unfair to say Hardy didnt deserve a shot. Gsp against anyone at 170 will make them look average. It could be kos fitch alves again, makes no difference, same resultant every single fight


----------



## Mckeever

tripster said:


> What are you talking about? GSP bent Hardy's both arms off twice or three times in the fight. That's Jui Jitsu delivered at it super best.


Obviously not seeing as though he didnt finish hardy with the sub... Like i said those two sub escapes really saved the fight. I was in disbelief at hardy. The fact of the matter is, people dont even rate hardy as a top WW, gave him no credit, say he would get smashed against kos, fitch, alves etc, yet he sustained less damage than all of those guys in their gsp fights and put up more of a fight (even though he was outclassed) GSP should of finished. He was making hardly any effort to finish the fight via ground and pound.






If i want to watch pure grappling, i'll watch this (very exciting contest btw), but this isnt a grappling contest, its mma.


----------



## tripster

Of course I was expecting a mixed bag of reponses over the GSP fight. The amateur MMA fans want to see full out striking and banging and crazy back-and-forth grappling. The problem is that this will not happen with GSP because he is just too good of a grappler for anyone to handle. As for striking, I believe he is much better than he himself thinks but why take a risk when you can completely dominate your opponent on the ground. Would you expect Silva to take a fight to the ground? He dominates stand-up so he keeps the fight there. Same for GSP.


----------



## stevy1222

Leed said:


> I understand what you mean, as he could actually have a broken arm or something, but he was in the most important fight in his life. It's either lose or have atleast SOME chance to turn it around. At the end of the day there will be people who are willing to take that risk.


exactly, its like when forrest griffin broke his elbow in an armbar and then came back and knocked out Edison Paredao back before he was on the ultimate fighter.


----------



## tommydaone

Amazing!! Great job Hardy, was so proud watching him lose.. lol

Never seen such heart in a fight


----------



## Danm2501

I don't get why people hate on grapplers, but not strikers. You never see people moaning about 2 guys striking, and how if they wanted to watch a striking match they'd watch K-1. GSP is a world class grappler, and wanted to make sure he took advantage of Dan Hardy's weakest area by neutralising his striking by grappling with him, and finishing him on the ground. Sure, he didn't finish him, but those submissions would have finished basically anyone else. Not really sure how people can slag that GSP performance off personally, he was exceptional. An excellent gameplan implemented almost flawlessly.


----------



## tripster

My hat goes off to Hardy for the guts he diplayed in the Octogon vs GSP. I've never seen anyone as tough or as willing to accept that kind of punishment to the ligaments and tendons. It was unbelievable! In the end, though, not a samrt move for a striker as it would not surprise me if he sustained permanent damage to both of his arms. I would wager that he has damamged his career by taking that kind of punishment. There is truth to the cliche surviving to fight another day. It will be a long time before HArdy gets back the quality of striker he was before this fight.


----------



## vaj3000

Im a brit an was openley supporting GSP. Dan hardy however converted me to a supporter, anyone that would allow his arms to be pulled out of their sockets rather than quit is something special


----------



## Mckeever

Danm2501 said:


> I don't get why people hate on grapplers, but not strikers. You never see people moaning about 2 guys striking, and how if they wanted to watch a striking match they'd watch K-1. GSP is a world class grappler, and wanted to make sure he took advantage of Dan Hardy's weakest area by neutralising his striking by grappling with him, and finishing him on the ground. Sure, he didn't finish him, but those submissions would have finished basically anyone else. Not really sure how people can slag that GSP performance off personally, he was exceptional. An excellent gameplan implemented almost flawlessly.


But where was the attempt to finish the fight from ground and pound. He failed the subs? why didnt he ground and pound. In mma, that is a part of grappling, to do damage to your opponent through ground strikes in order to try and stop the fight. i have nothing against grappler's who neutralise strikers via wrestling as long as they are doing damage and looking to finish the fight from their wrestling.

Edit: and tripster, what are you talking about man? dont make silly assumptions like that. From the looks of things, hardy was in no pain at all after the fight, im sure his shoulder and arm is fine.


----------



## The Legacy

Dan Hardy did indeed do the UK proud. There is no shame in losing to the best in the world, and lasting 25 minutes and escaping from that armbar and that kimura, he definitely deserves respect. I thought his arm was going to break, you could see how much pain he was going through by looking at his face.

War Hardy!


----------



## tripster

I think the objective was to permanently damage Hardy's most lethal weapons - his tow canon fists.


----------



## Danm2501

Mckeever said:


> But where was the attempt to finish the fight from ground and pound. He failed the subs? why didnt he ground and pound. In mma, that is a part of grappling, to do damage to your opponent through ground strikes in order to try and stop the fight. i have nothing against grappler's who neutralise strikers via wrestling as long as they are doing damage and looking to finish the fight from their wrestling.


Why did he have to G+P? He was threatening enough with the submissions and transitions. If the submissions weren't threatening then I'm sure he'd have used some G+P, but he was getting Dan into some horrible positions at ease, and threatened with submissions. Didn't think there was any need for G+P personally.


----------



## Baby Jay D.

tripster said:


> ... In the end, though, not a samrt move for a striker as it would not surprise me if he sustained permanent damage to both of his arms. I would wager that he has damamged his career by taking that kind of punishment. There is truth to the cliche surviving to fight another day. It will be a long time before HArdy gets back the quality of striker he was before this fight.


What? Absolutely no reason to believe anything like this. I suggest you to keep baseless nonsense like this to yourself.


----------



## tripster

Time will tell.


----------



## The Legacy

GSP is just on another level.

I love the comment after the fight from GSP, "Was he made of rubber or something?" 

He's a class above everybody at 170. He was so dissapointed he didn't finish the fight, he's not just content with having one judge score it 50-43, he wants to end things. That is a problem he's going to have to look into, if you can call it a problem.

Guys like BJ Penn and Anderson Silva are finishing fights which is why everyone wants to see them step up a weight class. GSP just keeps going to decisions. To be fair they are against extremely tough guys. 

So congrats to GSP, and respect to Hardy for hanging in there.


----------



## vaj3000

Riddum, i guess hardy just couldnt handle it!


----------



## Mckeever

Danm2501 said:


> Why did he have to G+P? He was threatening enough with the submissions and transitions. If the submissions weren't threatening then I'm sure he'd have used some G+P, but he was getting Dan into some horrible positions at ease, and threatened with submissions. Didn't think there was any need for G+P personally.


He attempted two subs the whole fight, which hardy some how escaped from. How can you be threatening from transitioning to advanced positions if your not going to hit them? Thats like getting full mount and then not hitting them or attempting a sub (like i said hardy escaped all two attempts). Two failed subs in a 5 round fight against a huge under dog isnt impressive imo.

Lets look at the fitch fight for example. Im all for grappling and neutralising a strikers best weapons this way. Fitch was working hard from the bottom, beating the shit outta saunders. He implemented grappling and strikes from the ground which is what mma is all about. Simply out grappling your opponent and transitioning from position (without any GNP) to position whilst attempting the odd submissions is not good.


----------



## Drogo

Mckeever said:


> But where was the attempt to finish the fight from ground and pound. He failed the subs? why didnt he ground and pound. From the looks of things, hardy was in no pain at all after the fight, im sure his shoulder and arm is fine.


Where was the attempt to finish? You can't love the ground game that much if you are saying this. GSP went for a bunch of subs, he'd obviously decided before the fight that Hardy was vulnerable on the ground to a sub. How many arm bars and kimuras would he have to try for before you consider it trying to finish, lol. 

Having said that, in the fourth for fifth, once it was clear the armbar/kimura wasn't happening I agree with Rogan, he should have gone for a choke or opened up the GnP more. GSP was trying to finish, it is ridiculous to say he wasn't but I did feel like he was playing it safer than he needed to late in the fight. Hardy was so exhausted there wouldn't have been much, if any, danger in posturing up more for GnP or standing. Even if Hardy manages to stand up because you're trying to bomb away a bit more from the top, so what? Take him down again.


----------



## hommage1985

LittleJoe said:


> Floyd? Pffft. Manny Paq is the best. Floyd wants nothing to do with him.


Manny turned down the fight. Nice try.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Mckeever said:


> Obviously not seeing as though he didnt finish hardy with the sub... Like i said those two sub escapes really saved the fight. I was in disbelief at hardy. The fact of the matter is, people dont even rate hardy as a top WW, gave him no credit, say he would get smashed against kos, fitch, alves etc, yet he sustained less damage than all of those guys in their gsp fights and put up more of a fight (even though he was outclassed) GSP should of finished. He was making hardly any effort to finish the fight via ground and pound.


But GSP was not trying to finish Hardy via GnP! He was trying to sub Hardy the whole fight. He nearly did it a couple of times, that was a great ground display from George, with Hardy doing an awesome job at defending GSP's attempts. Believe me Mc if GSP would have been willing to do more GnP, he would had messed up Hardys face same as Fitch's. He saw a lot of chances to finish Hardy with a submission, that's why he kept trying it throughout the fight.


----------



## K R Y

He was great last night. Displayed amazing heart and excellent sub defence. I was proud to be supporting him last night.


----------



## Mckeever

BobbyCooper said:


> But GSP was not trying to finish Hardy via GnP! He was trying to sub Hardy the whole fight. He nearly did it a couple of times, that was a great ground display from George, with Hardy doing an awesome job at defending GSP's attempts. Believe me Mc if GSP would have been willing to do more GnP, he would had messed up Hardys face same as Fitch's. He saw a lot of chances to finish Hardy with a submission, that's why he kept trying it throughout the fight.


Your probably right, but what i dont understand is. for me personally any ways, if i was GSP and i had locked in that arm bar on dan hardy and witnessed him escape, then stand back up and smile in my face, i would realise that there is no hope of ever subbing this man, lol. The subs wernt working, even in the 4th and 5th he should of realised this, therefore why didnt he GNP? Just doesnt make sense to me.


----------



## cdtcpl

My buddy and I were betting what round we would see that "lost my soul" look from him. I was impressed to say that he made it to about the 4th round before that look came out. I give Hardy credit, he could have let GSP just sink the RNC, or tapped to the arms, but he didn't and still kept trying. 

He really needs to learn wrestling though because almost all the top 10 WW guys are wrestlers and to get another shot at GSP he is going to have to go through them.


----------



## cdtcpl

Your third link is broken, but the biggest difference between those 3 fights is that GSP spent most of his time trying to sub Hardy. By doing that he threw less punches and elbows. And if you want to try to compare Hardy to Alves, Alves actually defended a couple of take downs, where as Hardy stopped 0. Hardy did not deserve the shot, but he made the most of it and probably earned a few fans from it.


----------



## H-Deep

cdtcpl said:


> Your third link is broken, but the biggest difference between those 3 fights is that GSP spent most of his time trying to sub Hardy. By doing that he threw less punches and elbows. And if you want to try to compare Hardy to Alves, Alves actually defended a couple of take downs, where as Hardy stopped 0. Hardy did not deserve the shot, but he made the most of it and probably earned a few fans from it.


Damm the third link is the best link!! Its basically Dan Hardy's face at the end of the fight, barely a scratch on him.

Hardy needs to fight alves next imo and i think people will realise Hardy is for real. He went 4-0 in the ufc and to be honest he can only fight who the ufc puts in front of him.If semtex beats Kos then i think he should get the next shot (assuming gsp doesnt move up) as i do not wanna see fitch v gsp again.


----------



## Emericanaddict

Alves and Fitch both were able to mount some offense and not get taken down EVERY 5 seconds. Hardy was unable to mount ANY offense whatsoever and was completely controlled the entire fight. Hardy was definitly the least challenging for GSP out of the 3 men if you ask me and im a Hardy supporter.

Also your right Hardy vs Alves would be a great fight.


----------



## TheNinja

First off the fight sucked. Why because only Dan Hardy came to Fight. Gsp came to win. Two different things there. It was like watching college wrestling with a couple punches and submissions. It baffles me that people are on here saying geroges let him out of the arm bars and Kimura beacuse he's a "nice guy" dude go watch another sport, and get off the guys sack if your this iggnorant. GSP is afraid of getting hit and this fight proved it. 

I'm in such disbielf right now that GSP was flat out scared of Dan Hardy.The man doesn't desrve to be mentioned with Fedor, Anderson Silva. GSP's a one-trick pony that lays on people and does minimal damage and can't even finish fights.YOU CAN'T ARGUE THAT. Hardy's not even a top 10 WW and GSP didn't even try to fight him. 

Every GSP fan I watched the fight with tonight was so pissed off. They were hoping he was going to announce he had another injury, and I just kept laughing.

People he was scared of Dan Hardy, is this sinking in to anyone yet. This is coming from the same guy who said he wants to be know as the greatest fighter ever..lol. Dude he's an amazing wrestler, that's it, why because he's scared to fight. He's basically the new Matt Hughes.

This fight really pissed me off. All respect lost for GSP. I gained a ton for Hardy. In my Heart Hardy won the I'm not the ***** award tonight.:thumb02:

I can't wait untill more people see this sad show of a performance.


----------



## Soojooko

Mckeever said:


> No (and no offence btw) but you are wrong. I like the ground game just as much as the next guy, i love seeing a good gound battle with Jujitsu, reversals and the rest, i also think the ground game involves ground and pound, trying to finish your opponent and do damage to them. Where was this in the fight? That isnt mma,that is pure wrestling/grappling.
> 
> GSP wasnt doing any significant ground and pound in that fight, instead he just transitioned from position to position and out grappled hardy. mma is about damaging your opponents and finishing fights which can be achieved via wrestling (jon jones for example, damn gsp, but he certainly didnt show it in this fight). It is not the lack of striking im referring to or annoyed abot, this is to be expect in all of gsps fights, it was the fact that gsp was landing no ground and pound and even hurting hardy, what is that about? I have no interest in watching pure wrestling, like i said, this is mixed martial arts. Its supposed to be a fight.


To flip it round, if two guys put on a pure Muai Thai clinic would you complain as much? To me its no different to a pure wrestling match or pure ju-jitsu match. They all belong in MMA.

Hardy isn't a punch bag. GSP tried to do some GnP in round 3 and didn't really manage any real damage. He then reverted to trying for subs because that was having more success for him. Hardy is a difficult guy to GnP. I've been saying this for weeks. Maybe GSP had done his homework and decided subs we're his best shot.

The next few fights for both of these guys will be telling. Has GSP improved? How do we know the GSP we saw last night wouldn't have finished Fitch or Alves? How much credit can we give Hardy for GSP's inability to finish? I really dont know. I'll say this much, Hardys ability to stop any significant damage to a supposedly improved and stronger GSP is telling. I cant wait to see him in with Fitch, Kos, Alves and Thiago.


----------



## munkie

Being absolutely mauled for 25 minutes has nothing to do with him not deserving a titleshot. His 2 questionable split decisions over mid-tier, at best, competition, tko over a nobody who struggled to make the cut and his unimpressive unanimous decision over a barely top 5 fighter is why he didn't deserve the titleshot. How he performed, or didn't, in said titleshot has no bearing on his worthiness and further proved he's not in the same galaxy as a serious contender. In reality, the only reason he didn't get fucked up as bad as Fitch is because GSP didn't bother going on a Kyokuchin rampage while standing against him. If GSP would've opened up standing, Hardy would've looked as bad, if not worse, than Fitch did. I'm not even goin to bother comparing this fight to the Alves fight. Cuz the Alves fight was at least somewhat competitive for a lil bit.


----------



## munkie

H-Deep said:


> Damm the third link is the best link!! Its basically Dan Hardy's face at the end of the fight, barely a scratch on him.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Thinks his arm and shoulder was a bit sore though? Had to be after the armbar and kimura.


----------



## Mckeever

Soojooko said:


> To flip it round, if two guys put on a pure Muai Thai clinic would you complain as much? To me its no different to a pure wrestling match or pure ju-jitsu match. They all belong in MMA.
> 
> *I wouldnt be complaining no. Becaue in Mu Thai stand up, its more of an actual fight and just generally more entertaining. Guys get hurt and hurt bad in mu thai fights, greater chance of guys getting ko'd, this is more entertaining to me than a man that just sits on top of his opponents not working any GNP and failing subs. I have grown how ever, to love a good ju jitus battle just as much as a good stand up war too. MMA is about fighting and combat man, that is the principle. In ju jitsu you are concentrating on ripping a guys arm off, choking him out, breaking his leg... in wrestling (for mma) you are looking to slam your opponent, control him and do damage from ground and pound Then in the stand up aspect, there is the obvious. Like i said, its the fact that GSP grappled his way to victory without doing any damage to Hardy and people applaud this performance and label him as the best p4p.*
> 
> Hardy isn't a punch bag. GSP tried to do some GnP in round 3 and didn't really manage any real damage. He then reverted to trying for subs because that was having more success for him. Hardy is a difficult guy to GnP. I've been saying this for weeks. Maybe GSP had done his homework and decided subs we're his best shot.
> 
> *Hardy is more than a difficuly guy to GNP, he proved this last night, how ever, when GSP is apparently the king of GNP and wrestling, you would expect him to completely overwhelm hardy with this technique, how ever, he didnt.*
> 
> The next few fights for both of these guys will be telling. Has GSP improved? How do we know the GSP we saw last night wouldn't have finished Fitch or Alves? How much credit can we give Hardy for GSP's inability to finish? I really dont know. I'll say this much, Hardys ability to stop any significant damage to a supposedly improved and stronger GSP is telling. I cant wait to see him in with Fitch, Kos, Alves and Thiago.


Im looking forward to hardy fighting those guys too. I also really hope GSP gives MW a shot, it would make both divisions so much more interesting and exciting.

The ninja sums it all up pretty well too.


----------



## BobbyCooper

It's time for George to call out the Spider! His top control is just amazing.


----------



## hixxy

Really proud of Dan last night, he may have lost but his has done his career no harm whatsoever.


----------



## Nefilim777

I agree completely, Hardy did well, and although he was completely neutralized by GSP, he did himself proud. I hope for the sports sake that GSP moves up very soon, cause right now title fights are almost a formality.


----------



## TheNinja

BobbyCooper said:


> It's time for George to call out the Spider! His top control is just amazing.


LOL...You don't call out a guy who actually shows up to fight and not just win. Anderson finshes fighters in 2 divisions. Top fighters he finshes..Fast!! GSP He Wrestles. You can't call the spider after that crap performance, are you serious. You must think Carwin is ready for Fedor too huh..:confused05:..Get GSP's nuts out your mouth he had a bad performance and anyone who isn't hanging from his is sack knows it.


----------



## BobbyCooper

cdtcpl said:


> Your third link is broken, but the biggest difference between those 3 fights is that GSP spent most of his time trying to sub Hardy. By doing that he threw less punches and elbows. And if you want to try to compare Hardy to Alves, Alves actually defended a couple of take downs, where as Hardy stopped 0. Hardy did not deserve the shot, but he made the most of it and probably earned a few fans from it.


This post says it all! :thumbsup:

Hardy was by nowhere ready for a guy like GSP.


----------



## BobbyCooper

TheNinja said:


> LOL...You don't call out a guy who actually shows up to fight and not just win. Anderson finshes fighters in 2 divisions. Top fighters he finshes..Fast!! GSP He Wrestles. You can't call the spider after that crap performance, are you serious. You must think Carwin is ready for Fedor too huh..:confused05:..Get GSP's nuts out your mouth he had a bad performance and anyone who isn't hanging from his is sack knows it.





TheNinja said:


> First off the fight sucked. Why because only Dan Hardy came to Fight. Gsp came to win. Two different things there. It was like watching college wrestling with a couple punches and submissions. It baffles me that people are on here saying geroges let him out of the arm bars and Kimura beacuse he's a "nice guy" dude go watch another sport, and get off the guys sack if your this iggnorant. GSP is afraid of getting hit and this fight proved it.
> 
> I'm in such disbielf right now that GSP was flat out scared of Dan Hardy.The man doesn't desrve to be mentioned with Fedor, Anderson Silva. GSP's a one-trick pony that lays on people and does minimal damage and can't even finish fights.YOU CAN'T ARGUE THAT. Hardy's not even a top 10 WW and GSP didn't even try to fight him.
> 
> Every GSP fan I watched the fight with tonight was so pissed off. They were hoping he was going to announce he had another injury, and I just kept laughing.
> 
> People he was scared of Dan Hardy, is this sinking in to anyone yet. This is coming from the same guy who said he wants to be know as the greatest fighter ever..lol. Dude he's an amazing wrestler, that's it, why because he's scared to fight. He's basically the new Matt Hughes.
> 
> This fight really pissed me off. All respect lost for GSP. I gained a ton for Hardy. In my Heart Hardy won the I'm not the ***** award tonight.:thumb02:
> 
> I can't wait untill more people see this sad show of a performance.


This post tells me everthing I need to know! :confused05:


----------



## Thelegend

TheNinja said:


> LOL...You don't call out a guy who actually shows up to fight and not just win. Anderson finshes fighters in 2 divisions. Top fighters he finshes..Fast!! GSP He Wrestles. You can't call the spider after that crap performance, are you serious. *You must think Carwin is ready for Fedor too huh*..:confused05:..Get GSP's nuts out your mouth he had a bad performance and anyone who isn't hanging from his is sack knows it.


since you found a way to bring in fedor and carwin into this thread....
heck yea carwin could take fedor, hes a better match-up to me than werdum anyway

anyway no surprise gsp decided to keep the fight on the ground. i said it before, gsp does not seem as confident in himself standing as he did before the serra fight. it could be he does not want to take damage or he just does not want to risk losing. the only time we get gsp to stand is with a dangerous ground guy with weaker stand-up. there just isint a fighter in the ww div. that has the ground game and the standup to take it to gsp anywhere the fight goes...maybe kos,thiago, i don't know if anyone else could. 

on a side note i think fitch might be overrated, dan hardy was able to survive 5 rounds with gsp who was supposed to be better than ever. gsp and fitch seem to ride decisions way too much against fighters that should be below them-which confuses me to no end is it wrong of me to expect fitch and george to start finishing guys to show how good they really are and shut down the haters?


----------



## TheNinja

Thelegend said:


> since you found a way to bring in fedor and carwin into this thread....
> heck yea carwin could take fedor, hes a better match-up to me than werdum anyway
> 
> anyway no surprise gsp decided to keep the fight on the ground. i said it before, gsp does not seem as confident in himself standing as he did before the serra fight. it could be he does not want to take damage or he just does not want to risk losing. the only time we get gsp to stand is with a dangerous ground guy with weaker stand-up. there just isint a fighter in the ww div. that has the ground game and the standup to take it to gsp anywhere the fight goes...maybe kos,thiago, i don't know if anyone else could.
> 
> on a side note i think fitch might be overrated, dan hardy was able to survive 5 rounds with gsp who was supposed to be better than ever. gsp and fitch seem to ride decisions way too much against fighters that should be below them-which confuses me to no end is it wrong of me to expect fitch and george to start finishing guys to show how good they really are and shut down the haters?


Yeah I agree Carwin is a better matchup then Werdum..Way better

GSP won't make so many people mad if he's quit saying he wants to be know as the greatest and people to remember his fights as the best ever..lol..Dude your a great wrestler playing MMA. Your Not Exciting:thumbsdown:


----------



## coldcall420

I think I tried to post on this last night I knew it would be chaos I posted then came right back to the thread and it was like 7 pages ahead....i said....I'll share y thoughts tom....

Good win shitty fight, should have been over a lot sooner and for those in this thread that have bitched abut the manor in which GSP won....I'm with you, I'm gettin bored and sick of it as well....

Not knockin GSP I bet and picked him to win the fight....

He to me is no longer a Martial Artist, I saw no Karate.......yet he calls Dan Hardy on that???? Also Hardy IS NO WHERE NEAR GSP......GSP has adopted this way to safe strategy that is super boring to watch and STOPS HIM FROM finishing guys like Hardy he should have finished by the 3rd....

I saw the armbar and Kimoura's but at the end of the day George has the power to k/o Hardy and TRUELY............was afraid to stand with him......


GSP....is better than last night....


----------



## kay_o_ken

they all got dominated but hardy definitely put on the worst show against gsp, i mean yeah he lasted all 5 rnds and champed it out through those sub attempts but thats about the only good thing i can say for him about this fight, he literally did no offensive anything and couldnt even come close to avoiding the takedown/gnp


----------



## Walter

Limbs sometimes get broken from not tapping. And sometimes even while tapping. 

The second time George let it go after looking at his corner, Greg probably told him to do the safe thing which is to keep control and win.

I'm glad Hardy didn't get injured, but for his sake I hope he learns what tapping is when the situation calls for it.


----------



## oldfan

Nefilim777 said:


> I agree completely, Hardy did well, and although he was completely neutralized by GSP, he did himself proud. I hope for the sports sake that GSP moves up very soon, cause right now title fights are almost a formality.


I agree with your first sentence but not the second. If gsp moves up he will be competitive but never dominant. It would be the same for Bj. He might even win the belt but he wouldn't hold it long.

I like having a dominant champion. A real champion is supposed to be dominant. It give the rest of the division a clear goal. the more dominant the champ the bigger the target on his back becomes and the harder it becomes to remain dominant. 

Right now we have 4 1/2 great champions. taking their belts will be a great accomplishment by a great fighter, isn't that better than what we had at lhw recently with 3 new champs in 3 fights?


----------



## Rusko

I give GSP his props, but if Hardy had a black belt it would be more fun to watch.


----------



## aerius

Disappointed? Sure. But I'm not going to get on GSP's case just yet since every fighter has a lackluster win every now & then. I'll wait to see what happens in his next few fights and go from there.

For those who bring up Anderson Silva and how he knocks out everyone and finishes his fights: have you forgotten his 5 round snoozefest with Thales Leites? And then he came back from that and completely wrecked poor Forrest.

Like I said, I'll wait to see what GSP does next. It might be a repeat of last night, or he might decide to really send a message to the rest of the WW and completely waste his next victim.


----------



## Thelegend

oldfan said:


> I agree with your first sentence but not the second. If gsp moves up he will be competitive but never dominant. It would be the same for Bj. He might even win the belt but he wouldn't hold it long.
> 
> I like having a dominant champion. A real champion is supposed to be dominant. It give the rest of the division a clear goal. the more dominant the champ the bigger the target on his back becomes and the harder it becomes to remain dominant.
> 
> Right now we have 4 1/2 great champions. taking their belts will be a great accomplishment by a great fighter, *isn't that better than what we had at lhw recently with 3 new champs in 3 fights?*


no. reason, more competition is more fun and brings out the best in fighters. people love lhw right now because their are no guarantees or big underdogs to those that know a bit about mma. gsp was the big favorite, and i expect anderson and bj penn will be as well. i look forward to competitive fights, that's it. i expect title fights to be competitive since they should have two great fighters going back and forth.


----------



## coldcall420

Rusko said:


> I give GSP his props, but if Hardy had a black belt it would be more fun to watch.


 
LOL.....think George left his at home too....


----------



## coldcall420

*Very Classy Young Man*

GSP took Hardy to the one place Hardy couldn't do anything....make no mistake if this was kick boxing you might have seen a different outcome last night. Conversely, i was not that impressed with Georges seemingly new and safe style of fghting....

Dan hardy made me proud to be British last night and he did it with class.....

All respect after the fight and that is what you expect, you got class from GSP as well its worth noting.....but GSP should have finished him, so props to Hardy for being immobilized and still hanging in there....


----------



## TheNinja

aerius said:


> Disappointed? Sure. But I'm not going to get on GSP's case just yet since every fighter has a lackluster win every now & then. I'll wait to see what happens in his next few fights and go from there.
> 
> For those who bring up Anderson Silva and how he knocks out everyone and finishes his fights: have you forgotten his 5 round snoozefest with Thales Leites? And then he came back from that and completely wrecked poor Forrest.
> 
> Like I said, I'll wait to see what GSP does next. It might be a repeat of last night, or he might decide to really send a message to the rest of the WW and completely waste his next victim.


Keep waiting becasuse here some stats and side by side comparisons between the two. 

GSP in his last 8 fights has only stopped two fighters himself Matt Hughes and Matt Serra. Plus Bj Penn's Corner quit..and he has one loss.

Anderson Silva in his last 8 fights while fighting in 2 different weight classes has stopped 7 of the 8 fighters he fought. Plus he won all all of his fights in great form except the fight were Cote Blew his Knee out(Cote never landed one head punch) and Lietes wouldn't fight back.

So really no comparison...Anderson uses all his skills...GSP is a wrestler now, it's sad


----------



## aerius

TheNinja said:


> Keep waiting becasuse here some stats and side by side comparisons between the two.
> 
> GSP in his last 8 fights has only stopped two fighters himself Matt Hughes and Matt Serra. Plus Bj Penn's Corner quit..and he has one loss.
> 
> Anderson Silva in his last 8 fights while fighting in 2 different weight classes has stopped 7 of the 8 fighters he fought. Plus he won all all of his fights in great form except the fight were Cote Blew his Knee out(Cote never landed one head punch) and Lietes wouldn't fight back.
> 
> So really no comparison...Anderson uses all his skills...GSP is a wrestler now, it's sad


There's more to putting on a good fight than just finishing. Was Big Nog vs. Couture a poor performance for Nog because he couldn't finish it? Was Machida vs. Shogun or Machida vs. Tito a bad fight since they went to a decision? IMO they were still great fights and great performances put on by Nogueira and Machida. And I'd say the same of GSP's fights against Fitch, Koscheck and Alves, they weren't stoppages but they were still good fights and impressive performances.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

God I enjoyed this one. GSP was in usual form, and Hardy managed to surprise me. 

I saw it:
Round 1-Hardy nullified alot of GSP's groundwork but got caught in an armbar, countering anything good he managed to do. I was really surprised with his ability to keep GSP from gaining side control.

Round 2-GSP gained positiona and mount a few times and eevn stood with Hardy for a few moments, if for nothing but to set up the shoot. Hardy looked like hje was showing too much restraint standing, no doubt expecting the innevitable shoot. I think Hardy still managed to keep this round really close by holding off a lot of what GSP tried to do

Round 3-GSP took him down and did some nice GnP, overall domination by GSP. At the end it looked like Hardy might have tried to go for a leg lock but GSP escaped and the clock ran out. 

Round 4-Hardy nmanaged some nice striking from his back early on, even managed a kneebar attempt. GSP had more good GnP and attempted a shoulderlock and a kneebar at the end. 

Round 5-GSP showed great position control throughout the round as well as GnP and slammed Hardy to hell around the middle of the round. Looked like Hardy attempted some more strikingfrom his back, to no avail. GSP went for the ankle lock at the end.

Overall, the fight went as expected. GSP took him down at will and grounded out a decision(though I had hoped for a tapout). Hardy surprised me in rd1 with his ability to nullify the ground game, and I entertained thoughts of the fight becoming a standup war. But it was to no avail. Maybe if Hardy had had a few more months to work on his position control and groundwork he would have had a chance, but it just seemed like he got tired alot faster than cardiomachine St Pierre.


----------



## towwffc

coldcall420 said:


> GSP took Hardy to the one place Hardy couldn't do anything....make no mistake if this was kick boxing you might have seen a different outcome last night. Conversely, i was not that impressed with Georges seemingly new and safe style of fghting....
> 
> 
> All respect after the fight and that is what you expect, you got class from GSP as well its worth noting.....but *GSP should have finished him*, so props to Hardy for being immobilized and still hanging in there....


When you say things like "he should have" I just feel its easy to say when you are not the one fighting.

I mean Georges had a gameplan and he wanted to use that gameplan to finish. He wanted to give Hardy zero chances of winning while maximizing his and he did.

In my mind GSP won that fight twice because anyone without Hardy's exceptional amount of heart would have tapped both of those times and you probably would not be complaining. I do agree that the repetetive takedowns got a little old, but that is more Hardy's fault than GSP's. Hardy got handled everywhere and we are giving him props just for trying. GSP couldn't get any good gnp going, he went for multiple armbars, leglocks, and kimuras and outgrappled Hardy with ease. He was clearly trying very hard to finish the fight within his gameplan. I'd think the only way Georges would have changed that plan is if it was somehow causing him to lose, but obviously it worked pretty well.


----------



## Franco

And by round 3, Hardy's smirk was erased.:thumb02:


----------



## oldfan

Thelegend said:


> no. reason, more competition is more fun and brings out the best in fighters. people love lhw right now because their are no guarantees or big underdogs to those that know a bit about mma. gsp was the big favorite, and i expect anderson and bj penn will be as well. i look forward to competitive fights, that's it. i expect title fights to be competitive since they should have two great fighters going back and forth.


I agree with you. Just from a slightly different perspective. I think there is great competition among the challengers in every division right now, but I want the championship fights to be competitive because of greater challengers not lesser champions.


----------



## The Horticulturist

If he threatened or put GSP in danger, I would be a lot more impressed. I already knew he was that tough, he has proved he was very, very tough before.

There are a few WW's I'd love to see fight GSP before possibly moving up, and I'm glad Hardy is out of the way now.


----------



## UrbanBounca

This may sound a bit harsh, but I wish GSP would've ripped his arm out of the socket. If you're being submitted by arguably the best P4P fighter in the world, and you decide not to tap, that's your own problem.

GSP could've ended the fight *extremely* easy, but they decided to salvage Hardy's career instead.


----------



## Machida Karate

I knew what Hardy had to bring to the Table, and i didn't see anything that "Impressed Me" other then the amount of pain he is willing to take...

But i guess all the other guys that went 5 rounds, all had a pretty good tolerance to pain lol...

I was a little annoyed that GSP didn't finish the Brit, but then when i re watch it... Those were some NASTY subs that Hardy just screamed and took... 

And i think Alves OR Fitch would F Hardy


----------



## The_Nightmare

Franco said:


> And by round 3, Hardy's smirk was erased.:thumb02:


to be fair at the end of the fight hardy was just casually strolling around with his can as if he hadn't even been fighting. i think it was clear early he was outclassed and hardy really didn't look to bothered that he lost. it dosent effect his career in any way really. so i wouldn't expect the smirk to go anywhere. he just enjoys winding people up.


----------



## Johnni G

His preformance was really incredible. I was afraid he broke his arm.


----------



## alizio

honestly he did alright.

you ppl are exaggerating tho. he made ppl proud to be british by taking a 5 round beating?/

he never tried to turn the fight his way, he was in full defensive mode from the get go, he never let his hands go.

he accepted defeat in round 1. 

his new game plan was to survive and not even make an offensive move.

if that makes all of england so proud i guess u guys been waiting along time for something to cheer for.

if cain got dominated for 5 rounds and didnt really try to mount offense once i wouldnt be going around saying how he did all of mexico proud and im proud to be mexican today.

like Jon Fitch says. its hard to finish guys that go into 100% survival mode and dont even mount offense.

Hardy did well not to tap, ppl shouldnt be making it like he accomplished the greatest feat ever by taking a through beating for 5 rounds.


----------



## alizio

GSP had the easiest time taking down and controling Hardy, make no mistake.

he didnt really have to do his world famous high/low transitions. he felt and saw how shitty hardys TDD was just starting shooting in without setting it up.


----------



## alizio

i cant imagine how proud u guys would be if he actually landed a punch or did something offensively.

there might be riots on the streets.


----------



## Franco

Agreed. Also, I'd like to know what Hardy said to St Pierre after the official decision. He said something that made St Pierre laugh.


----------



## Leed

Franco said:


> Agreed. Also, I'd like to know what Hardy said to St Pierre after the official decision. He said something that made St Pierre laugh.


GSP asked if his arm hurts, to which Hardy answered with a head shake and a smile, and pointed to his head, meaning... moral strenght or something?


----------



## alizio

GSP let him go. he could have cranked it worse.

Hardy is getting credit for having heart when GSP pretty much has a bigger one by not potentially ruining his career.

he looked right at greg jackson and greg was telling him to ease off during that nasty kimura. im sure this is gonna come out in the coming days.

GSP let Hardy off the hook in that spot. he could have broken the kids arm i have no doubt.


----------



## vaj3000

alizio said:


> i cant imagine how proud u guys would be if he actually landed a punch or did something offensively.
> 
> there might be riots on the streets.


errrm yeah great post:sarcastic12:


----------



## The Dark Knight

alizio said:


> honestly he did alright.
> 
> you ppl are exaggerating tho. he made ppl proud to be british by taking a 5 round beating?
> 
> he never tried to turn the fight his way, he was in full defensive mode from the get go, he never let his hands go.
> 
> he accepted defeat in round 1.
> 
> his new game plan was to survive and not even make an offensive move.
> 
> if that makes all of england so proud i guess u guys been waiting along time for something to cheer for.
> 
> if cain got dominated for 5 rounds and didnt really try to mount offense once i wouldnt be going around saying how he did all of mexico proud and im proud to be mexican today.
> 
> like Jon Fitch says. its hard to finish guys that go into 100% survival mode and dont even mount offense.
> 
> Hardy did well not to tap, ppl shouldnt be making it like he accomplished the greatest feat ever by taking a through beating for 5 rounds.


Look, we are all allowed an opinion yeah, but yours suggests a little bit of disrespect. GSP was all over Hardy from the get and pretty much made him work for a good 25 mins so Hardy didn't really have chance to offensive. Hardy was trying to find openings, and rightly so. Just 'letting your hands' go against somebody like GSP is no different to the whole 'survival mode' thing you were on about. It's like saying, 'well he is too good for me to strategise against so i may as well go out swinging'. 

There were a couple of times where Hardy scrambled to his feat and would immediately try and land some fight ending shots, so it's not like he did jack all. 

As for the submission escapes..i have no idea how he survived and escaped those. GSP has amazing pulling strength and a powerful grip. A normal man would last less than 2 secs in an armbar. My friend got me in one too once and, it's so excruciating that even the slightest pressure will make you tap. Those who have never been in one will never understand the pure heart and frightening determination Hardy went through on Saturday night.

I was very proud of Hardy and always will be. It'll only make him a better fighter.


----------



## TraMaI

Fitch's face may look terrible, but his arms still work 


Also, GSP wasn't exactly TRYING to hurt him standing either. He wanted that sub and he wanted it bad.


----------



## alizio

The Dark Knight said:


> Look, we are all allowed an opinion yeah, but yours suggests a little bit of disrespect. GSP was all over Hardy from the get and pretty much made him work for a good 25 mins so Hardy didn't really have chance to offensive. Hardy was trying to find openings, and rightly so. Just 'letting your hands' go against somebody like GSP is no different to the whole 'survival mode' thing you were on about. It's like saying, 'well he is too good for me to strategise against so i may as well go out swinging'.
> 
> There were a couple of times where Hardy scrambled to his feat and would immediately try and land some fight ending shots, so it's not like he did jack all.
> 
> As for the submission escapes..i have no idea how he survived and escaped those. GSP has amazing pulling strength and a powerful grip. A normal man would last less than 2 secs in an armbar. My friend got me in one too once and, it's so excruciating that even the slightest pressure will make you tap. Those who have never been in one will never understand the pure heart and frightening determination Hardy went through on Saturday night.
> 
> I was very proud of Hardy and always will be. It'll only make him a better fighter.


 of course entitled to your opinion. im just giving mine aswell.

IMO GSP let go of that one Kimura. He knew Dan had literally no chance of beating him and didnt want to truely hurt him.

Dan didnt make me proud, i hoped he would have. i rather see him go down swinging then just go down.

GSP didnt even have to mix it up. He easily got takedowns with no setups. Dan was just waiting to get taken down again, ppl saw all kinds of heart, i saw a kid scared and in complete survival mode not trying to win a fight.

heart is trying to win when you think you cant. not trying to survive. JMO. i rather be KOd trying to win then just survive and amount no offense at all.


----------



## alizio

vaj3000 said:


> errrm yeah great post:sarcastic12:


 ty i try. its sad when your proud cuz a guy has too much ego to tap.

good thing GSP isnt that kind of guy or you could be proud that Dan wont be fighting for over a year and may never be the same cuz his arm is messed up.

at least if ur going risk permanent damage, go for broke at some point and try to win....

Dan should take notes from a true warrior, Roger Huerta. he almost got his armed snapped off too but afterwards he dropped some crazy flurries trying to win the fight.


----------



## Soojooko

Machida Karate said:


> I was a little annoyed that GSP didn't finish the Brit, but then when i re watch it... Those were some NASTY subs that Hardy just screamed and took...


Come on MK. You dont just "take" submissions. They can only go 1 of 3 ways: You tap, you get broken or you escape. In both the instances Hardy escaped. Give him a little credit. You make it sound like GSP got bored and let go, with Hardy just sitting there taking it.


----------



## Grotty

alizio said:


> ty i try. its sad when your proud cuz a guy has too much ego to tap.
> 
> good thing GSP isnt that kind of guy or you could be proud that Dan wont be fighting for over a year and may never be the same cuz his arm is messed up.
> 
> at least if ur going risk permanent damage, go for broke at some point and try to win....
> 
> Dan should take notes from a true warrior, Roger Huerta. he almost got his armed snapped off too but afterwards he dropped some crazy flurries trying to win the fight.


Dick:sarcastic12::sarcastic12::sarcastic12:


----------



## FatFreeMilk

alizio said:


> ty i try. its sad when your proud cuz a guy has too much ego to tap.



Not tapping =/= too big an ego.


----------



## vaj3000

alizio said:


> ty i try. its sad when your proud cuz a guy has too much ego to tap.
> 
> good thing GSP isnt that kind of guy or you could be proud that Dan wont be fighting for over a year and may never be the same cuz his arm is messed up.
> 
> at least if ur going risk permanent damage, go for broke at some point and try to win....
> 
> Dan should take notes from a true warrior, Roger Huerta. he almost got his armed snapped off too but afterwards he dropped some crazy flurries trying to win the fight.


Butr in case you missed it hardy isnt huerta, you can only go so far till you reach your limits. Nice to see that you know better than the general consensus that hardy did a good job hanging in there. Another great post:confused02:

To imply that GSP let go of thatsubmission or that he took it easy is hillarious. IF a fighter knows that the ultimate consequence of a submission attempt is just pain (and not a broken limb) then i bet most fighters would endure it to avoid a loss. I greatly admire GSP but hardy turned into that armbar and escaped, GSP didnt let him go


----------



## alizio

vaj3000 said:


> Butr in case you missed it hardy isnt huerta, you can only go so far till you reach your limits. Nice to see that you know better than the general consensus that hardy did a good job hanging in there. Another great post:confused02:


 i dont understand??

he did good not tapping?? ok, ill agree.

what else did he do that good? i havent seen somebody taken down and controlled that easily since Cain vs Kongo but at least Kongo dropped a couple shots in there.

or Chael vs Nate but at least Nate threw out some of his own subs and elbows.

Hardy was clearly very outclassed and only proved he can withstand pain.

he didnt prove he belongs on that level tho, which is what his fans should have really been hoping for.

grasping at straws calling that a great performance. oh you survived dan, you made me so proud, maybe next time you can turtle up real good for 5 rounds and take even less damage??


----------



## Soojooko

alizio said:


> GSP let him go. he could have cranked it worse.
> 
> Hardy is getting credit for having heart when GSP pretty much has a bigger one by not potentially ruining his career.
> 
> he looked right at greg jackson and greg was telling him to ease off during that nasty kimura. im sure this is gonna come out in the coming days.
> 
> GSP let Hardy off the hook in that spot. he could have broken the kids arm i have no doubt.


I'm still not sure about it.



















GSP looks like hes *trying* to break Hardys arm in each of these pics. How can anybody think hes holding back. Look at his face.


----------



## swpthleg

coldcall420 said:


> LOL.....think George left his at home too....


I hate how GSP keeps leaving his karate skills at home, accidentally on purpose.

I can't understand why he didn't crank that kimura more. I'm pretty sure he could have. 

It's a win-win, IMO, GSP gets to keep his belt and Hardy's public profile skyrockets, as everybody knows there is no shame in losing to GSP, even safe-fighting wrestler GSP.


----------



## Soojooko

alizio said:


> i dont understand??
> 
> he did good not tapping?? ok, ill agree.
> 
> what else did he do that good? i havent seen somebody taken down and controlled that easily since Cain vs Kongo but at least Kongo dropped a couple shots in there.
> 
> or Chael vs Nate but at least Nate threw out some of his own subs and elbows.
> 
> Hardy was clearly very outclassed and only proved he can withstand pain.
> 
> he didnt prove he belongs on that level tho, which is what his fans should have really been hoping for.
> 
> grasping at straws calling that a great performance. oh you survived dan, you made me so proud, maybe next time you can turtle up real good for 5 rounds and take even less damage??


As much as I disagree on whether the escapes were actually escapes rather than GSP letting go... the rest I agree with. Theres not much to be "proud" about. A few positives amongst a torrent of negatives doesn't make it a good night for a fighter in any light. For me, about the best thing I saw all night was Dan doing a good job neutralizing the GnP in round 3 and the 2 "escapes". Thats it. Nice and all that... but proud?? Some people are easily impressed obviously. I'm sure Dan will be cringing when he reads all these pride comments when he next goes online. I bet he's not proud.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

He cranked it pretty hard. If you watch it again, he yanked at it as well and Hardy was very clearly in pain. I think that almost anyone else would have tapped to either of those submissions.


----------



## BobbyCooper

George stated at the press conference, that he tried to break his arm! He was not holding back anything. But he also said, that his trainers, told him what he did wrong. And that he won't make the same mistake again.


----------



## punchbag

gazh said:


> I'm very proud of Dan Hardy this morning, the result went as expected but ofcourse it wasn't as us Hardy fans were hoping (praying?) but he showed alot of charactor against an opponent that is clearly a class above everyone in the WW catagory.
> 
> I'm definately at fault for being suckered into a place where i really thought Dan Hardy had a decent chance of winning, but i guess when you want something alot it's easily done. Despite the result i'm proud of Dan Hardy, he did England proud and he did his fans proud, he couldn't be on GSPs level but he hung on and refused to tap when probably 95% of fighters would have, he showed true English bulldog spirit.
> 
> Thank you Dan Hardy.


Dan Hardy showed what heart is all about last night, and did U.K MMA proud. 
He did a great job of subduing all G.S.P'S GROUND AND POUND offensive, he hardly took any heavy shots,unlike many great fighters before him e.g the BJ penn stoppage,and how he never tapped to those subs, I do not know. 
He showed that he truly deserved his shot at the title and proved to a lot of people that he belongs in the upper tier of UFC welterweights.


----------



## alizio

Soojooko said:


> As much as I disagree on whether the escapes were actually escapes rather than GSP letting go... the rest I agree with. Theres not much to be "proud" about. A few positives amongst a torrent of negatives doesn't make it a good night for a fighter in any light. For me, about the best thing I saw all night was Dan doing a good job neutralizing the GnP in round 3 and the 2 "escapes". Thats it. Nice and all that... but proud?? Some people are easily impressed obviously. I'm sure Dan will be cringing when he reads all these pride comments when he next goes online. I bet he's not proud.


 +rep soo

i respect that coming from you. believe me, if my favorite fighter put in a performance like that, proud isnt the word i would be looking for.

Nothing against Dan. I was one of the few hoping he would earn some respect and prove himself last night.

IMO he didnt. He proved he has a very high will power and pain threshold but on a skill level he did about as bad as anybody has vs GSP.

He didnt try to implement any standup or really let his hands go or take a risk.

it was obv he needed to take a risk to win. i can find no excuse not to take one. you are willing to get your arm ripped off but your not willing to expose yourself standing to try to hurt GSP??

i wasnt proud tbh, i was disapppointed. and i like Dan.

i dont think Dan will be that proud either. he will be embarrassed and hopefully go work his ass off wrestling and on TDD.

Going to learn BJJ from a guy who got schooled on the ground by GSP was a dumb idea anyways. it wont save u. If BJ and Serras BJJ wasnt enuff on the ground Hardy was more then delusional to think a bit of his would be.

he needed to train TDD non stop. hell. he still does. all the other wrestlers will look at this fight as the blueprint to beat Dan Hardy.

it will do him more harm then good.


----------



## Hammerlock2.0

I was also supporting Hardy last night, though I am a fan of GSP (hey, I like rooting for the underdog and he made me laugh with his interviews) and I pretty much knew that he would get GSP'd. That's just for the record...

I was literally (and I mean literally, not metaphorically) screaming in pain during the first armbar and it got even worse with that kimura, because GSP could have easily broken Hardy's arm with it. I was hoping he wouldn't do it, but then GSP just kept cranking that arm... it was HORRIBLE to watch. Thank God GSP decided not to and let go of it (he was looking at his corner right before he let go, so maybe Greg Jackson told him not to? I'd like some comments from GSP on that...). Anyway... Hardy really has no quit in him. Maybe it's just his fighting spirit, maybe it's his ego or maybe he's just flat out stupid, but I'm gonna be supporting him in the future. :thumbsup:

Wow... that was the most incoherent post I've ever made.


----------



## Kreed

oldfan said:


> I agree with your first sentence but not the second. If gsp moves up he will be competitive but never dominant. It would be the same for Bj. He might even win the belt but he wouldn't hold it long.
> 
> * I like having a dominant champion*. A real champion is supposed to be dominant. It give the rest of the division a clear goal. the more dominant the champ the bigger the target on his back becomes and the harder it becomes to remain dominant.
> 
> Right now we have 4 1/2 great champions. taking their belts will be a great accomplishment by a great fighter, isn't that better than what we had at lhw recently with 3 new champs in 3 fights?


but at what point does integrity come into play? dana said that kampman/swick were being primed for a title fight after beating no one.Those 2 fighters now cant find a win..
Dana said the winner of fitch/saunders could be number 1 contender say saunders ko'd fitch would you really be content with saunders versing gsp?

hardy went to decision with swick and davis (some ppl thinking he lost the davis fight) only to be awarded a fight with GSP.With GSP saying this was his toughest fight to date? come on.The guy has nothing left to prove in a division that is full of rematches and prospects with no TDD/wrestling.If he wasnt so yellow he would move up weight like after the alves fight..


----------



## machidaisgod

TheNinja said:


> First off the fight sucked. Why because only Dan Hardy came to Fight. Gsp came to win. Two different things there. It was like watching college wrestling with a couple punches and submissions. It baffles me that people are on here saying geroges let him out of the arm bars and Kimura beacuse he's a "nice guy" dude go watch another sport, and get off the guys sack if your this iggnorant. GSP is afraid of getting hit and this fight proved it.
> 
> I'm in such disbielf right now that GSP was flat out scared of Dan Hardy.The man doesn't desrve to be mentioned with Fedor, Anderson Silva. GSP's a one-trick pony that lays on people and does minimal damage and can't even finish fights.YOU CAN'T ARGUE THAT. Hardy's not even a top 10 WW and GSP didn't even try to fight him.
> 
> Every GSP fan I watched the fight with tonight was so pissed off. They were hoping he was going to announce he had another injury, and I just kept laughing.
> 
> People he was scared of Dan Hardy, is this sinking in to anyone yet. This is coming from the same guy who said he wants to be know as the greatest fighter ever..lol. Dude he's an amazing wrestler, that's it, why because he's scared to fight. He's basically the new Matt Hughes.
> 
> This fight really pissed me off. All respect lost for GSP. I gained a ton for Hardy. In my Heart Hardy won the I'm not the ***** award tonight.:thumb02:
> 
> I can't wait untill more people see this sad show of a performance.


Please don't insult the great Matt Hughes, he finished people once he got them on the ground. Everything else you said is gold, pure gold.


----------



## BobbyCooper

punchbag said:


> Dan Hardy showed what heart is all about last night, and did U.K MMA proud.
> He did a great job of subduing all G.S.P'S GROUND AND POUND offensive, he hardly took any heavy shots,unlike many great fighters before him e.g the BJ penn stoppage,and how he never tapped to those subs, I do not know.
> He showed that he truly deserved his shot at the title and proved to a lot of people that he belongs in the upper tier of UFC welterweights.


Dan did showed a lot of heart that night, thats true! But he just doesn't belong in a cage with the the GSP's, Fitch's, Thiago's and so on.. he is a decent fighter, but until he doesn't improve his Wrestling in ground game in general, he won't make any waves in the UFC. 

The reason why Penn and Fitch were so messed up and Dan wasn't, is that GSP was constantly trying to sub Dan. Something he knew he couldn't do against Jon or BJ. Thats why he GnP the **** out of them! Trust me Hardys face would have been a mess if GSP would really used his GnP instead of his submissions.

He just had chosen the right way strategy wise!


----------



## Canadian Psycho

swpthleg said:


> even safe-fighting wrestler GSP.


You broke my heart, Sweep


----------



## UKMMAGURU

This fight could be the making of Hardy, he showed determination and he now knows exactly which holes he needs to plug to complete with the best in the division, fingers crossed he can put it into action.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Yeah, GSP is afraid of getting hit because he is intelligent enough to realize that you have a better chance at winning when you take someone out of their comfort zone. Hardy had no chance on the ground but could have possibly won the fight standing, so it would make sense to take him down.

It baffles me that people say things like this. I will say it again, if you want to see a striking fight (Which is what Hardy came to do) go watch boxing or K-1. This is MMA.


----------



## DJ Syko

alizio said:


> ty i try. its sad when your proud cuz a guy has too much ego to tap.
> 
> good thing GSP isnt that kind of guy or you could be proud that Dan wont be fighting for over a year and may never be the same cuz his arm is messed up.
> 
> at least if ur going risk permanent damage, go for broke at some point and try to win....
> 
> Dan should take notes from a true warrior, Roger Huerta. he almost got his armed snapped off too but afterwards he dropped some crazy flurries trying to win the fight.


what a prick you really are, no wonder nobody likes you.


----------



## DahStoryTella

Seeing some of these angry clowns on YouTube is too funny.

''I hate GSP weak little wrestling punk!''


----------



## alizio

DJ Syko said:


> what a prick you really are, no wonder nobody likes you.


 ty!! im glad you speak for everybody. not prick like at all. you speak for the masses and i apoligize. 

hopefully you get a one sided beatdown one day and ill be right there to tell u how proud i am.


----------



## thrshr01

hardy gained respect from me after that fight. I didn't think he was ready for a title shot skillwise but he proved me wrong on the mental aspect. I thought gsp would end his brashness by putting a beating on him but his mental toughness from those 2 deep sub attempts is gonna gain him notareity. His opponents will either have to knock him out or choke him out, there's no quitting in him.

with that being said, I don't think gsp put a beating on him because he wanted to end the fight with a sub. To show how complete of a fighter he is. Any other fighter would have tapped from the armbar but he did it to the wrong person. That looked like a training session on bjj for gsp and I'm afraid for the next person they put in front of him as I have no doubt he will finish his next fight in spectacular fashion.


----------



## attention

LMAO at all the people that claim GSP was 'afraid of Hardy' :laugh: 

Lets just supposed GSP stood and traded with Hardy... and lets further suppose that Hardy got the KO...

Hardy would hold the belt for ONE title defense before a decent wrestler like Fitch or Kos would come in and take it from him.

Hardy _*may*_ be the best striker at WW, but he cant hang with the elite on the GROUND... and that will most certainly be tested when you are the champ.

Alves got to his feet way more times that Hardy... same goes for Fitch and Kos... 

Hardy aint ready to be the champ, he's not well rounded enough and GSP easily exploited and dispatched him as a result.

Bitching about GSP not standing and striking is like bitching about Hardy not putting up much of a battle on the ground... 

I love how the blame immediately fall on GSP for NOT standing and striking... you know, I think part of the blame falls on Hardy for not being able to keep the fight where he wants it :sarcastic12:

The funny thing, after all this I actually like Hardy... he stated he had nothing to lose... and its soo true.
He may have lost this fight, but he learned alot and WON lots of fans, including myself.


----------



## Mckeever

alizio said:


> of course entitled to your opinion. im just giving mine aswell.
> 
> IMO GSP let go of that one Kimura. He knew Dan had literally no chance of beating him and didnt want to truely hurt him.
> 
> Dan didnt make me proud, i hoped he would have. i rather see him go down swinging then just go down.
> 
> GSP didnt even have to mix it up. He easily got takedowns with no setups. Dan was just waiting to get taken down again, ppl saw all kinds of heart, i saw a kid scared and in complete survival mode not trying to win a fight.
> 
> heart is trying to win when you think you cant. not trying to survive. JMO. i rather be KOd trying to win then just survive and amount no offense at all.


Sorry man, but i have no idea what you are talking abouut, it almost sounds as if you were watching another fight?

Dan Hardy was scared? Sorry? If any thing it looked like GSP was the more nervous, scared fighter. Drinking water on multiple ocassions when buffer was announcing? He definitely had severe dry through through nerves. I can 100 percent assure you that Dan Hardy was not at all scared of any thing GSP had to offer him in this fight. The menacing look in his eyes the entire announcment time/staredown and the way he just smiled at GSP when he escaped the arm bar and stood right up. That is not the body language of s scared opponent my friend.

The simple fact of the matter is, dan literally had no chance and no openings to be on the offence. It wasnt a case of him accepting defeat and entering survival mode at all. What do you think would of happened if Dan Hardy started wildly swinging towards GSP? After the first swing, GSP would of had his body in the air, about to come crashing down to the matt. Hardy is also a counter puncher, i could see he was trying to set some thing up on the feet, GSP simply wouldnt allow him too.

Like darkknight said other things as well, such as Hardy scrambling and trying to get in a few shots, he gave it 110 percent and tried his best, GSP would simply not give him an opportunity to capitalise at any moment in the fight, that is the harsh reality. For you to say GSP let go of the kimura and say Dan was scared and in survival mode the entire fight is very disrespectful imo.


----------



## alizio

Mckeever said:


> Sorry man, but i have no idea what you are talking abouut, it almost sounds as if you were watching another fight?
> 
> Dan Hardy was scared? Sorry? If any thing it looked like GSP was the more nervous, scared fighter. Drinking water on multiple ocassions when buffer was announcing? He definitely had severe dry through through nerves. I can 100 percent assure you that Dan Hardy was not at all scared of any thing GSP had to offer him in this fight. The menacing look in his eyes the entire announcment time/staredown and the way he just smiled at GSP when he escaped the arm bar and stood right up. That is not the body language of s scared opponent my friend.
> 
> The simple fact of the matter is, dan literally had no chance and no openings to be on the offence. It wasnt a case of him accepting defeat and entering survival mode at all. What do you think would of happened if Dan Hardy started wildly swinging towards GSP? After the first swing, GSP would of had his body in the air, about to come crashing down to the matt. Hardy is also a counter puncher, i could see he was trying to set some thing up on the feet, GSP simply wouldnt allow him too.
> 
> Like darkknight said other things as well, such as Hardy scrambling and trying to get in a few shots, he gave it 110 percent and tried his best, GSP would simply not give him an opportunity to capitalise at any moment in the fight, that is the harsh reality. For you to say GSP let go of the kimura and say Dan was scared and in survival mode the entire fight is very disrespectful imo.


 so if he came out swingng he would have gotten taken down easily??

so instead he came out not swinging..... and got taken down easily... round after round after round....

sorry. he was outclassed and scared to throw.

you can take whatever you want from his false bravado. say w/e you want about how much he talks or how fierce he acts. 

when the fight started all that went down the toilet and the kid got stomped and didnt really put up much of a fight.

when your obviously outclassed you HAVE to take a risk. i see no excuse not to.

your saying he couldnt cuz he would have gotten taken down?? that doesnt even make sense... he got taken down anyways so what difference does it make?? at least if u swing u have a chance to win.

complete survival mode. no offense, thats what he was in, not even trying to sweep or reverse just trying to fight off subs.

its easy to survive when its all ur concentrating on. he would have got finished if he came outta his shell and tried anything thats why he didnt.... scared.

takes more courage to put yourself out there and try to win and get KO'd then it does to turtle and try to survive.


----------



## Mckeever

alizio said:


> so if he came out swingng he would have gotten taken down easily??
> 
> so instead he came out not swinging..... and got taken down easily... round after round after round....
> 
> sorry. he was outclassed and scared to throw.
> 
> you can take whatever you want from his false bravado. say w/e you want about how much he talks or how fierce he acts.
> 
> when the fight started all that went down the toilet and the kid got stomped and didnt really put up much of a fight.
> 
> when your obviously outclassed you HAVE to take a risk. i see no excuse not to.
> 
> your saying he couldnt cuz he would have gotten taken down?? that doesnt even make sense... he got taken down anyways so what difference does it make?? at least if u swing u have a chance to win.
> 
> complete survival mode. no offense, thats what he was in, not even trying to sweep or reverse just trying to fight off subs.
> 
> its easy to survive when its all ur concentrating on. he would have got finished if he came outta his shell and tried anything thats why he didnt.... scared.
> 
> takes more courage to put yourself out there and try to win and get KO'd then it does to turtle and try to survive.


Its all very well and good saying that, but its easier said than done. What good would it of done if he came out wildly swinging and got take down yet again? Would this prove all of a sudden he wasnt scared and had heart? No. Like i said you could see Dan was waiting for an opening trying to counter GSP, it simply just wasnt happening. Swinging like a mad man would of not only made his stand up look bad, but he would of also got taken down any way and wasted energy on it.

Hardy was looking to counter and set some thing up at the start of each roumd, just because he didnt come out swinging doesnt make him scared at all. I cant believe you could even think this tbh.

I dont know if you watched the Pacqiuou/clottey fight but i can imagine you being one of the guys saying Clottey was afraid of Pac and was in survival mode. He was simply outclassed and barley got any oppurtinities to commit to any offence.

Same with GSP, he simply didnt give hardy the chance, coming out swining like an idiot wouldn't of proved any thing, and please, please take back your comments about him being scared of GSP.


----------



## michelangelo

GSP is the consummate politician: it would have made everyone look very bad if he had flat out admitted right then and there that he had released the hold. Fighters are supposed to go until the ref tells them to stop, so he can't really admit he went 99% rather than 100 or 110%. 

In the months to come, there will be intimations either from GSP and/or his camp that he was being a good sport and did not want to hurt the talented British fighter. 

btw, if you watch carefully, GSP's facial expressions give away the fact that he is "lying." Rogan picked up on this right away when GSP claimed he was not interested in moving up to 185 lbs. His face lit up with a big smile even while he denied it.

And when a reporter asked him if he let go of his submission holds, he again had that same embarrassed smile. 

The truth will come out (it's already out), just be patient...



alizio said:


> of course entitled to your opinion. im just giving mine aswell.
> 
> IMO GSP let go of that one Kimura. He knew Dan had literally no chance of beating him and didnt want to truely hurt him.
> 
> Dan didnt make me proud, i hoped he would have. i rather see him go down swinging then just go down.
> 
> GSP didnt even have to mix it up. He easily got takedowns with no setups. Dan was just waiting to get taken down again, ppl saw all kinds of heart, i saw a kid scared and in complete survival mode not trying to win a fight.
> 
> heart is trying to win when you think you cant. not trying to survive. JMO. i rather be KOd trying to win then just survive and amount no offense at all.


----------



## WestCoastPoutin

TheNinja said:


> Yeah I agree Carwin is a better matchup then Werdum..Way better
> 
> GSP won't make so many people mad if he's quit saying he wants to be know as the greatest and people to remember his fights as the best ever..lol..Dude your a great wrestler playing MMA. Your Not Exciting:thumbsdown:


And you are a great boxing fan playing an MMA fan. :thumbsdown:


----------



## Squirrelfighter

attention said:


> LMAO at all the people that claim GSP was 'afraid of Hardy' :laugh:
> 
> Lets just supposed GSP stood and traded with Hardy... and lets further suppose that Hardy got the KO...
> 
> Hardy would hold the belt for ONE title defense before a decent wrestler like Fitch or Kos would come in and take it from him.
> 
> Hardy _*may*_ be the best striker at WW, but he cant hang with the elite on the GROUND... and that will most certainly be tested when you are the champ.
> 
> Alves got to his feet way more times that Hardy... same goes for Fitch and Kos...
> 
> Hardy aint ready to be the champ, he's not well rounded enough and GSP easily exploited and dispatched him as a result.
> 
> Bitching about GSP not standing and striking is like bitching about Hardy not putting up much of a battle on the ground...
> 
> I love how the blame immediately fall on GSP for NOT standing and striking... you know, I think part of the blame falls on Hardy for not being able to keep the fight where he wants it :sarcastic12:
> 
> The funny thing, after all this I actually like Hardy... he stated he had nothing to lose... and its soo true.
> He may have lost this fight, but he learned alot and WON lots of fans, including myself.


You said it all man. 

GSP isn't scared of Hardy, he tested him. And Hardy failed, not because of a lack of clout, that man has miles and miles of clout, he just lacked the technical skills to beat GSP. If Hardy had sprawled and kept it standing, he had a legitimate shot at knocking GSP out. But he couldn't sprawl, and didn't have the ground skills to break away and get back up. 

I think Hardy has a ton of potential and may someday be good enough to become the WW champion, but he's not there yet. I am definitely a new Hardy fan after that fight!


----------



## WestCoastPoutin

HitOrGetHit said:


> I will say it again, if you want to see a striking fight (Which is what Hardy came to do) go watch boxing or K-1. This is MMA.


I repped you for this.

For the whiners, James Toney is in the UFC guys!! Your dreams are coming true! No more '**** laying on each other'!


----------



## alizio

Mckeever said:


> Its all very well and good saying that, but its easier said than done. What good would it of done if he came out wildly swinging and got take down yet again? Would this prove all of a sudden he wasnt scared and had heart? No. Like i said you could see Dan was waiting for an opening trying to counter GSP, it simply just wasnt happening. Swinging like a mad man would of not only made his stand up look bad, but he would of also got taken down any way and wasted energy on it.
> 
> Hardy was looking to counter and set some thing up at the start of each roumd, just because he didnt come out swinging doesnt make him scared at all. I cant believe you could even think this tbh.
> 
> I dont know if you watched the Pacqiuou/clottey fight but i can imagine you being one of the guys saying Clottey was afraid of Pac and was in survival mode. He was simply outclassed and barley got any oppurtinities to commit to any offence.
> 
> Same with GSP, he simply didnt give hardy the chance, coming out swining like an idiot wouldn't of proved any thing, and please, please take back your comments about him being scared of GSP.


 no hard feelings 

we just see things differently.

ill ask a couple questions to illustrate.

What positives moving forward do you have about Dan Hardy.

I see more negatives. Wrestlers must have the idea of fighting him. It was plainly obvious his TDD is nowhere close to where it would need to be to be competitive at the top of the division.

i just dont know what Hardy fans are taking away from this fight other then the kid is pretty tough and wont sub easy. He didnt do much else. He didnt even challenge GSP or have him in any type of uncomfortable situation.

i amount it to Sanchez vs Penn pretty much but on the ground instead of standing. Just school in session and obv no chance to win or do anything.

GSP just didnt finish it. If he had seriously hurt Hardy, you would likely have a different perspective on the night.

i still feel GSP didnt crank it like he could have, watch the replay, he had it locked for a very long time, i think he was surprised Hardy wouldnt tap.


----------



## Mckeever

alizio said:


> no hard feelings
> 
> we just see things differently.
> 
> ill ask a couple questions to illustrate.
> 
> What positives moving forward do you have about Dan Hardy.
> 
> I see more negatives. Wrestlers must have the idea of fighting him. It was plainly obvious his TDD is nowhere close to where it would need to be to be competitive at the top of the division.
> 
> i just dont know what Hardy fans are taking away from this fight other then the kid is pretty tough and wont sub easy. He didnt do much else. He didnt even challenge GSP or have him in any type of uncomfortable situation.
> 
> i amount it to Sanchez vs Penn pretty much but on the ground instead of standing. Just school in session and obv no chance to win or do anything.
> 
> GSP just didnt finish it. If he had seriously hurt Hardy, you would likely have a different perspective on the night.
> 
> i still feel GSP didnt crank it like he could have, watch the replay, he had it locked for a very long time, i think he was surprised Hardy wouldnt tap.


Im not really hyping up dans future within the UFC from this thread, that wasnt my goal. It was just to pay Dan respect for escaping them almost impossible submission attempts from GSP. We can all speculate about whether GSP let it go or wasnt trying hard enough, but that is just speculation. What dan hardy did with those two escapes was ******* crazy and i give him mad respect. Im not suddenly saying hes going to beat up fitch, kos and alves, like i said that wasnt at all what i was getting at in this thread.

I hope this has been a good learning experience for Dan. For me it shown that he is a fast learner, i mean i really think the serra training with Ju jitsu payed off just for escaping those subs. If hardy can concentrate and continue to learn the ground game intensively i think he has a bright future in the division. He was also some how able to control gsps GNP. Even when gsps corner said to focus on gnp, dan hardy did a great job off his back at stopping GSP.

Lets not forget that alves and kos as good a wrestlers as they are, still aint in the same league as GSP when it comes to take downs. I can see him struggling with fitch and kos (kos who knows, you never know how hes going to approach a fight) but i can see him putting up good fights against Alves, johnson etc


----------



## swpthleg

Canadian Psycho said:


> You broke my heart, Sweep


Not as broken as my heart is when I watch the former incarnation of GSP busting out spinning back kicks and, in the words of another poster (I wish I could remember b/c it was so funny) "going all Tekken."


----------



## luckbox

Fair play to both guys, GSP did what he needed to win, while Hardy showed the world he is a true fighter with a giant heart. Huge props to him for not tapping to some of those subs, the armbar pic posted here is nasty!

To be honest though, GSP needs another challenge. He is just to comfortable taking any 170 pounder in the world down on the ground and controlling them. Because of this he is becoming a bit dull to watch. We need someone who can force him to use his karate and really put him under pressure. If GSP wants to be remembered as the best p4p ever, now is the time to call out Anderson Silva.


----------



## vaj3000

alizio said:


> grasping at straws calling that a great performance. oh you survived dan, you made me so proud, maybe next time you can turtle up real good for 5 rounds and take even less damage??


...quote me where i called this a great performance by hardy?

As always nothing to say with any substance


----------



## Chileandude

Bah, his arms were fine, in the first arm bar, look at his elbow, it wasn't straighted up, he keep hiding the elbow and preventing the armbar, GSP tried to put him in place but Hardy kept escaping.

The kimura didn't wasn't that bad IMO, much like Cerrone's omoplata on Benderson, they looked way worse than they were, there's a good video of Bendo explaining the difference on when the move is actually screwing up your join and when it just puts the limb in an awkward position to see.


----------



## No_Mercy

He should have gotten the submission. Slight err in the technique, but he's right it's hard to guage it when training vs actual fight time. He extended that arm too far out in the Kimura, if only he brought it in closer it really should have been game over to give him the decisive win. The combination of slight error in technique and Hardy's tenacity robbed himself of the "clean" victory. It was a dominant win nonetheless. 

I think it's Team Ruffhouse vs AKA. Seems to be bad blood brewing. 

Should be Hardy vs Fitch now. Then if Fitch wins go against Thiago Alves. If he wins that then he's ready.


----------



## Diokhan

I think this is good timing for me to flash the quote on my sig again!

Yes, Hardy did better than Nate did on his title shot against Silva, but you can hardly call it a great performance. 

I tend to disagree with Alizio about as often as I agree with him, but this time I have to yet agree that he is right about Hardy risking a major injury for not tapping like Sylvia did vs. Mir is nothing to be proud of. Its dumb and foolish on a long run and I can see his "I don't know what tapping means!" mentality costing him an arm or leg one day.
Anyway, he was able to prevent most damage on ground and that is something he CAN be proud of. Infact Penn, Serra fitch Kos and Alves were each taking much greater beating on ground than Hardy did, so he did surprise me quite a bit at that.


----------



## limba

I am just amazed, maybe even shocked reading some of the posts in this thread.
I don't get all this hate for GSP. Or maybe it's not hate, it's just envy. 
BORING?!?!! That's the word must critics have used to describe the fight. I don't have annything against those who are brave enough and admit: "i didn't like the fight, i hated the fight". No problem in that.
But to call it boring?! This is like the biggest piece of cr**p i've ever heard. It's like me going to opera and calling it boring. Because i just don't get it.
Unfortunatelly it's the same case here. To many people talk about something they don't understand. If you don't understand it, don't watch it. 
I mentioned earlier in this thread, i think there are to many "fans" who still consider a fight exciting if it has some ingredients like: KO, blood or 2 guys punching eachother like 2 drunken hillbillies. Ray Mercer KO'ing Sylvia, Todd Duffe's 7 seconds KO...To many still consider that entertaintment. And that's a shame. This sport has developed incredibly and GSP is one of the best out there. So i realy don't get where this is coming from.
If that's the case, here's one for those "haters". Especialy those who brought Anderson's name in this thread (for no reason imo). Remember his fights against Cote and that "very exciting" fight against Leites?
The same thing could apply to other fighters. Machida-Shogun, was that a boring fight too?? How about Marquardt-Sonnen? Same scenario like GSP-Hardy. But wait: there was blood and that is not boring.
Remember one thing: GSP wasn't alone in the ring last night. Hardy was there too (in a way). It's not GSP's fault that the others can't step up their game at this moment to offer him a challenge.
I'm open to any critics...


----------



## limba

luckbox said:


> Fair play to both guys, GSP did what he needed to win, while Hardy showed the world he is a true fighter with a giant heart. Huge props to him for not tapping to some of those subs, the armbar pic posted here is nasty!
> 
> To be honest though, GSP needs another challenge. He is just to comfortable taking any 170 pounder in the world down on the ground and controlling them. Because of this he is becoming a bit dull to watch. We need someone who can force him to use his karate and really put him under pressure. If GSP wants to be remembered as the best p4p ever, now is the time to call out Anderson Silva.


I agree. He needs a challenge, but at this moment that challenge needs to come from the WW division. I remember him coming back after the Serra loss and developing into one of the best fighters in the world.
Why can't the others do the same things?
As for him calling Silva out. I think this subject has burned down. He is a LHW cutting to MW and almost everybody knows that. He is just too big. (220-225 lbs)


----------



## Hiro

I'm British and not a Hardy fan but can say in general, strictly as a fighter, Hardy represents this nation well. I don't like him enough to be proud but I can see why his British fans would be saying they are. I think the point alizio and Soojooko might be missing is that a fighter from England fought for the title for the first time and lasted 25 minutes with one of the best fighters of all time, showing a lot of heart in the process. Yeah he got dominated and didn't do a single notable thing offensively, but he did what BJ Penn could not do, and that's last it out.

I think Hardy will fade into mediocrity from here.


----------



## Hiro

edit - double post


----------



## Harness

He did me proud because before GSP, he had fought nobody in the top 10 (well Swick is pushing top 10..) and lasted 25 minutes with arguably the top P4P fighter in the sport. He showed a lot of heart and was super nice at the end. 

It's a shame GSP fans are mostly the same. "GSP IZ OSSUM, HARDY IS TEH LOSE."


----------



## limba

I think he realy did the UK proud. He showed a lot of heart and determination. 
But this fight also showed that he needs to fill in some holes in his game in order to become a champion. He has to develop his game. He has a long road ahead of him, but if he wants to be number 1, that's the only way.


----------



## brucelee23

For sure Hardy done all brits proud and showed all the haters that he deserved to be in there with GSP. 

I dont agree with the length of down talking Hardy put up towards GSP before the fight, but hey, once he got dominated it was all squashed straight after. 

Hardy, daley and pointon are our best shots at holding a ufc title. Bisping is a typical brit, full of loud balls but cant back it up. Hardy and daley do talk a good fight but have some side to back it up. 

Good fight i think.


----------



## arkanoydz

Had GSP executed one of the 2 submission attempts correctly, he would have finished the fight after having dominated practically the whole time. I expected much more out of Hardy, and I especially expected him to come better prepared against GSP's wrestling. I thought he would have done better getting back to his feet and taking the fight back to his comfort zone. Also, I think Hardy is getting way too much credit for having survived those 2 submission attempts.


----------



## BobbyCooper

luckbox said:


> To be honest though, GSP needs another challenge. He is just to comfortable taking any 170 pounder in the world down on the ground and controlling them. Because of this he is becoming a bit dull to watch. We need someone who can force him to use his karate and really put him under pressure. If GSP wants to be remembered as the best p4p ever, now is the time to call out Anderson Silva.


Those are exactly my words! :thumb02:

Go up Georgie boy and show us what you really can do.


----------



## thrshr01

arkanoydz said:


> Had GSP executed one of the 2 submission attempts correctly, he would have finished the fight after having dominated practically the whole time. I expected much more out of Hardy, and I especially expected him to come better prepared against GSP's wrestling. I thought he would have done better getting back to his feet and taking the fight back to his comfort zone. Also, I think Hardy is getting way too much credit for having survived those 2 submission attempts.


I think Dan deserves the credit he has been given. Those subs were deep and very evident on his face and the way is arm was torqued. he showed great heart by not giving up but also a bit dumb to where it would have possibly ended his career. All in all, I hope he learns from this and improves his over all game. Skill you can teach but heart you can't and that's something he displayed last night.


----------



## michelangelo

I was considering starting a new thread about this, but I don't have enough evidence to support it yet. 

I believe GSP was simply toying with Hardy. Hardy was defenseless twice and GSP could have seriously injured him on both occasions. Each time GSP eased up and let go, not as a result of his own defense, but because GSP allowed him to escape.

At this point, GSP is simply too good for the WW division. This bout was literally an exhibition of wrestling and JJ holds, without any attempt to inflict damage on GSP's part. It was a bit like the Fedor vs. Aoki exhibition "match" with GSP playing the role of Fedor. 

GSP was in a tough position: crank Hardy's arm and he hurts a young fighter and becomes branded "the bad guy." Let go of the holds and risk the competitive credibility of the UFC by not going full tilt, the implicit premise of any fight, especially a title fight. 

Discuss.


----------



## michelangelo

*GSP vs. Hardy Was An Exhibition Match*

I'll admit that this argument is highly speculative, and difficult or impossible to corroborate at this point in time. Nonetheless, I believe the truth of the matter will be made known in the next few days, weeks or months. 

I believe GSP was simply toying with Hardy. Hardy was defenseless twice and GSP could have seriously injured him on both occasions. Each time GSP eased up and let go, not as a result of Hardy's sub defense, but because GSP allowed Hardy to escape.

At this point, GSP is simply too good for the WW division. This bout was literally an exhibition of wrestling and JJ holds, without any attempt to inflict damage on GSP's part. It was a bit like the Fedor vs. Aoki exhibition "match" with GSP playing the role of Fedor.

GSP was in a tough position: if he cranks Hardy's arm and hurts a young fighter, he becomes branded "the bad guy." But if he lets go of the holds, he risks damaging the competitive credibility of the UFC by not going full tilt, the implicit premise of any fight, especially a title fight.

An interesting contrast to the Palharas match to be sure, at the very least. 

Discuss.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Diokhan said:


> Anyway, he was able to prevent most damage on ground and that is something he CAN be proud of. Infact Penn, Serra fitch Kos and Alves were each taking much greater beating on ground than Hardy did, so he did surprise me quite a bit at that.


But that was not Hardy's benefit at all! He only got unscarred out of this fight, because GSP used a totally different strategy, wich he could not apply against his recent opponents. He used the right strategy that night, wich was to submit Dan Hardy. If Hardy for example had the calibre of a Jon Fitch, BJ Penn groundgame nobody would have recorgnized him after the fight.. he would have looked even worse then Fitch!


----------



## dario03

After rewatching the end of the fourth I can see that Hardy was able to move with GSP when he was in the Kimura but I still think GSP could of ended it if he just reset himself a bit. Hopefully the guys in WW will start training more wrestling because this is how all GSP's fights will be if his opponents can't do something about it.


----------



## rogi

Wow, so many losers in this thread.

omg, Dan lasted 5 rounds and didn't tap. we're so proud, he may have lost, but he really won. Really Brucelee23, he showed he deserved to be in there with GSP? Really? how so? by NOT getting completely destroyed?

wtf kinda pussies are you all? he got his assed kicked for 25 mins, did absolutely nothing. this was a fight for the title, he's suppose to be the best contender, and everyone's so proud he lay around got slapped around for 5 rounds and not tap? 

jeez, he sucked, grow some balls, and call it as it is.


----------



## joe davola




----------



## MagiK11

joe davola said:


>


hahahahahahahaha I'm still laughing right now!


----------



## rogi

I agree 100%, Hardy just lay there and cover up for 25 minues, and hold GPS's arms. That's IT! that is litterly all he did for 5 rounds, and people say how great Hardy did. wtf kinda low expectations do you people have for a title match? oh wow Hardy didn't tap, i guess that proves it, England DOES have good fighters! yeay, UK rocks, i feel better now.


----------



## TheNinja

First off the fight sucked. Why because only Dan Hardy came to Fight. Gsp came to win. Two different things there. It was like watching college wrestling with a couple punches and submissions. It baffles me that people are on here saying geroges let him out of the arm bars and Kimura beacuse he's a "nice guy" dude go watch another sport, and get off the guys sack if your this iggnorant. GSP is afraid of getting hit and this fight proved it. 

I'm in such disbielf right now that GSP was flat out scared of Dan Hardy.The man doesn't desrve to be mentioned with Fedor, Anderson Silva. GSP's a one-trick pony that lays on people and does minimal damage and can't even finish fights.YOU CAN'T ARGUE THAT. Hardy's not even a top 10 WW and GSP didn't even try to fight him. 

Every GSP fan I watched the fight with tonight was so pissed off. They were hoping he was going to announce he had another injury, and I just kept laughing.

People he was scared of Dan Hardy, is this sinking in to anyone yet. This is coming from the same guy who said he wants to be know as the greatest fighter ever..lol. Dude he's an amazing wrestler, that's it, why because he's scared to fight. He's basically the new Matt Hughes.

This fight really pissed me off. All respect lost for GSP. I gained a ton for Hardy. In my Heart Hardy won the I'm not the ***** award tonight.

I can't wait untill more people see this sad show of a performance.

Another thing, where does GSP get off calling out Hardy for not being a true Mixed Martial Artist when all he does is wrestle and use poor BJJ


----------



## TraMaI

If you knew anything about BJJ, you'd know that 

A) Georges made small but KEY technical mistakes on those two sub attempts. Yes, lesser men would've tapped, but they were what allowed Hardy to survive and get out. For one, he both 1) allowed Hardy to turn his arm in the armbar and 2) did not have his arm in the right position. When you apply an armbar, the joint is supposed to be on your groin/hip area, Hardy's upper bicep was there, not the joint. This means that the torque GSP was applying was both negated slightly by Hardy turning his arm and the soft flesh of his muscle cushioning his arm being pulled back so it relieved stress on the joint.

B) During the Kimura Georges did NOT lean forward and over Hardy's back like he should've so he could get the correct angle to run his arm more. By staying where he was, Georges allow Hardy to turn his body and move his hips with the submission, negating some of the torque on his shoulder and elbow. The other mistake he made was not placing his leg over Dan's head, which both immobilizes him to an extent and allows him to get a better angle. He also didn't move his right leg toward Dan's stomach, which would've allowed more torque but had Hardy not given up/got his shit snapped it would've lost Georges' position a lot easier, which is why he didn't do it. 


In short: The armbar wasn't applied right and Georges didn't crank the Kimura because he would've lost his position. Georges was being SAFE in that fight and wanted to win by submission less than he wanted to give up position and possibly lose the fight.



EDIT: Also, I agree with Ninja. Georges was VERY afraid to get hit in the fight. The few times Hardy hit him in the face from guard GSP looked like he wanted NOTHING to do with it and instantly sucked him head in and laid there for a second. Like Both of us said, now, GSP very, very obviously took the safe route to win that fight. Hardy came to fight, Georges came to win. I'm not saying it's a BAD thing that GSP came to win, because it's not and he obviously did because of that, but it's the truth behind it. GSP is more worried about protecting his legacy than finishing opponents and it's become increasingly more apparent in his last few fights.


----------



## HexRei

TheNinja said:


> First off the fight sucked. Why because only Dan Hardy came to Fight. Gsp came to win.


No. GSP came to fight, Dan Hardy came to kickbox. That was the problem. Hardy is not up to the challenge of threatening GSP on the ground, GSP knew it, and built his gameplan accordingly. 

People should not be mad because GSP makes smart, legal gameplans and uses them to dominate the division. Why should Georges let himself get hit when he can effectively win without it? Also I think Georges looked easily as good on the feet as Hardy, so while we can call it smart I would not call GSP scared. He followed the most intelligent gameplan.


----------



## Parabola

Some of you should go watch "Despite dominant win, St-Pierre heads backstage to see what he did wrong" at UFC.com video gallery


----------



## TraMaI

Parabola said:


> Some of you should go watch the UFC Post Fight Press Conference.
> 
> GSP himself said he made a mistake in both submission attempts.


I don't know how to do BJJ >_>


----------



## Spec0688

joe davola said:


>


ihavetohave10letters


----------



## joe davola

TheNinja said:


> First off the fight sucked. Why because only Dan Hardy came to Fight. Gsp came to win. Two different things there. It was like watching college wrestling with a couple punches and submissions. It baffles me that people are on here saying geroges let him out of the arm bars and Kimura beacuse he's a "nice guy" dude go watch another sport, and get off the guys sack if your this iggnorant. GSP is afraid of getting hit and this fight proved it.
> 
> I'm in such disbielf right now that GSP was flat out scared of Dan Hardy.The man doesn't desrve to be mentioned with Fedor, Anderson Silva. GSP's a one-trick pony that lays on people and does minimal damage and can't even finish fights.YOU CAN'T ARGUE THAT. Hardy's not even a top 10 WW and GSP didn't even try to fight him.
> 
> Every GSP fan I watched the fight with tonight was so pissed off. They were hoping he was going to announce he had another injury, and I just kept laughing.
> 
> People he was scared of Dan Hardy, is this sinking in to anyone yet. This is coming from the same guy who said he wants to be know as the greatest fighter ever..lol. Dude he's an amazing wrestler, that's it, why because he's scared to fight. He's basically the new Matt Hughes.
> 
> This fight really pissed me off. All respect lost for GSP. I gained a ton for Hardy. In my Heart Hardy won the I'm not the ***** award tonight.
> 
> I can't wait untill more people see this sad show of a performance.
> 
> Another thing, where does GSP get off calling out Hardy for not being a true Mixed Martial Artist when all he does is wrestle and use poor BJJ


THIS MAN SPEAKS THE TRUTH!!!!!raise01: i was thinking the same thing after the fight he is matt hughes 2.0 with a few virises because matt hughes could finish his opponents while gsp can only finish glorified LW's pathetic really


----------



## Parabola

HexRei said:


> No. GSP came to fight, Dan Hardy came to kickbox. That was the problem. Hardy is not up to the challenge of threatening GSP on the ground, GSP knew it, and built his gameplan accordingly.
> 
> People should not be mad because GSP makes smart, legal gameplans and uses them to dominate the division. Why should Georges let himself get hit when he can effectively win without it? Also I think Georges looked easily as good on the feet as Hardy, so while we can call it smart I would not call GSP scared. He followed the most intelligent gameplan.


Exactly. It's not worth the risk for GSP to stand with Hardly and getting caught ala Serra.


----------



## 6toes

TheNinja said:


> First off the fight sucked. Why because only Dan Hardy came to Fight. Gsp came to win. Two different things there. It was like watching college wrestling with a couple punches and submissions. It baffles me that people are on here saying geroges let him out of the arm bars and Kimura beacuse he's a "nice guy" dude go watch another sport, and get off the guys sack if your this iggnorant. GSP is afraid of getting hit and this fight proved it.
> 
> I'm in such disbielf right now that GSP was flat out scared of Dan Hardy.The man doesn't desrve to be mentioned with Fedor, Anderson Silva. GSP's a one-trick pony that lays on people and does minimal damage and can't even finish fights.YOU CAN'T ARGUE THAT. Hardy's not even a top 10 WW and GSP didn't even try to fight him.
> 
> Every GSP fan I watched the fight with tonight was so pissed off. They were hoping he was going to announce he had another injury, and I just kept laughing.
> 
> People he was scared of Dan Hardy, is this sinking in to anyone yet. This is coming from the same guy who said he wants to be know as the greatest fighter ever..lol. Dude he's an amazing wrestler, that's it, why because he's scared to fight. He's basically the new Matt Hughes.
> 
> This fight really pissed me off. All respect lost for GSP. I gained a ton for Hardy. In my Heart Hardy won the I'm not the ***** award tonight.
> 
> I can't wait untill more people see this sad show of a performance.
> 
> Another thing, where does GSP get off calling out Hardy for not being a true Mixed Martial Artist when all he does is wrestle and use poor BJJ


:confused02:

WAIT! An amazing wrestler is using his...WRESTLING to win a fight!? Somebody needs to put a stop to this!

Georges takes Hardy down at will and keeps him there = Georges is afraid of Hardy? That is some of the most ridiculous logic I've ever heard. You want every fighter to fight their opponent at their strong point? Thats not being a good fighter, that's just being really arrogant or stupid. Why should Georges give Hardy a chance to win the fight? If anything can be said its that Georges should of opened up more on the ground rather than grinding down Hardy and attempting submissions.

Of course we all would have liked to have seen a finish in that fight. I know I would've but I think that comes down to Hardy's unwillingness to tap and Georges determination to pull off a sub. All in all, if the other fighters have a problem with how Georges fights, I challenge them to stop him .

Honestly, I obviously can't know for sure as I'm not GSP, but I, along with everybody I was watching with, also suspected GSP of not applying full pressure to those submissions. Of course Georges himself said he had made some mistakes so I'll take his word for it but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that he didn't want to break his arm. :dunno:


----------



## Parabola

TraMaI said:


> I don't know how to do BJJ >_>


Bwahahaha


----------



## TheNinja

HexRei said:


> No. GSP came to fight, Dan Hardy came to kickbox. That was the problem. Hardy is not up to the challenge of threatening GSP on the ground, GSP knew it, and built his gameplan accordingly.
> 
> People should not be mad because GSP makes smart, legal gameplans and uses them to dominate the division. Why should Georges let himself get hit when he can effectively win without it? Also I think Georges looked easily as good on the feet as Hardy, so while we can call it smart I would not call GSP scared. He followed the most intelligent gameplan.


GSP just needs to quit telling everyone he wants to be remebered as the best. He's only stopped 2 of last 8 fights. and he lost one of those as well. You can count the BJ penn fight but he didn't really stop him and then there's the contraversey.

Now compare that to somewhat of the likes of Anderson Silva or fedor.

Silva over his last 8 fights in the UFC has finshed 7 of his last 8 fights in 2 different weight classes, by using a far more range of skills. Plus, who's fights do you think are going to be remembered as more legendary. The wrestling match or ?


----------



## Parabola

TheNinja said:


> GSP just needs to quit telling everyone he wants to be remebered as the best. He's only stopped 2 of last 8 fights. and he lost one of those as well. You can count the BJ penn fight but he didn't reallt stop him and then there's the contreversey.


He's no Kenny Florian...Kenny finishes fights!


----------



## HexRei

TheNinja said:


> GSP just needs to quit telling everyone he wants to be remebered as the best. He's only stopped 2 of last 8 fights. and he lost one of those as well. You can count the BJ penn fight but he didn't really stop him and then there's the contraversey.
> 
> Now compare that to somewhat of the likes of Anderson Silva or fedor.


No, he's not as good at finishing as Silva, although i think he relies on wrestling like Silva relies on striking, these days. Silva doesn't really use a wider range of skillsets imo, he relies on strikes and generally only goes to the ground when he has to.

Also Georges is 6 years younger than Silva and has plenty of time to change up his game.



> Silva over his last 8 fights in the UFC has finshed 7 of his last 8 fights in 2 different weight classes, by using a far more range of skills. Plus, who's fights do you think are going to be remembered as more legendary. The wrestling match or ?


 To educated fans, I think fights are remembered for the skills displayed whether on the ground or the feet.


----------



## joe davola

HexRei said:


> No. GSP came to fight, Dan Hardy came to kickbox.


NO!!!! gsp did not come to fight laying on someone is not fighting, i hate how people try to make it seem like gsp is a fighter when he is miles from being one and those people who say that he is are usually the ones who got beat up and can't throw a punch and now that they discovered wrestling and bjj think they are a "FIGHTER" a fighter is someone like

bj penn
roger huerta
wandy
diego
florian(penn fight excluded)
shogun(machida fight excluded)
chuck
page

and i could name some more but anyway a fighter is someone who tests themselves and throws it all on the line instead of trying to eek-out a win it's kill or be killed


----------



## HexRei

So, GSP should have let Hardy up because Hardy didn't have any ability to create an offense on the ground? That's an interesting perspective.


----------



## Parabola

HexRei said:


> So, GSP should have let Hardy up because Hardy didn't have any ability to create an offense on the ground? That's an interesting perspective.


----------



## dario03

joe davola said:


> NO!!!! gsp did not come to fight laying on someone is not fighting, i hate how people try to make it seem like gsp is a fighter when he is miles from being one and those people who say that he is are usually the ones who got beat up and can't throw a punch and now that they discovered wrestling and bjj think they are a "FIGHTER" a fighter is someone like
> 
> bj penn
> roger huerta
> wandy
> diego
> florian(penn fight excluded)
> shogun(machida fight excluded)
> chuck
> page
> 
> and i could name some more but anyway a fighter is someone who tests themselves and throws it all on the line instead of trying to eek-out a win it's kill or be killed


A smart fighter uses his strengths against his opponents weaknesses. GSP is a smart fighter not just some toughguy and I would take a smart fighter over the toughguy every time.


----------



## Pound&Mound

lol too funny, lots of idiots here. Probably why some people went to FLD.


----------



## joe davola

dario03 said:


> A smart fighter uses his strengths against his opponents weaknesses. GSP is a smart fighter not just some toughguy and I would take a smart fighter over the toughguy every time.


yes but he isn't a smart "fighter" he is a smart "compettitor" not a fighter 

and laying on someone is just pathetic when you can't do anything


----------



## FrodoFraggins

HexRei said:


> No. GSP came to fight, Dan Hardy came to kickbox. That was the problem. Hardy is not up to the challenge of threatening GSP on the ground, GSP knew it, and built his gameplan accordingly.
> 
> People should not be mad because GSP makes smart, legal gameplans and uses them to dominate the division. Why should Georges let himself get hit when he can effectively win without it? Also I think Georges looked easily as good on the feet as Hardy, so while we can call it smart I would not call GSP scared. He followed the most intelligent gameplan.


Agreed.

Hardy wasn't worthy of this title shot and is too one dimensional. I don't find GSP's fights to be the most entertaining, except when he's beating BJ Penn, but the guy fights smart. If he applied either of those two submissions properly the fight would have been over much sooner.

The guy won't make those types of mistakes again. And I think his goal is indeed to start finishing fights earlier and earlier.

The UFC pits the best fighters against each other. That doesn't always work out to be the best matchups.


----------



## HexRei

joe davola said:


> yes but he isn't a smart "fighter" he is a smart "compettitor" not a fighter
> 
> and laying on someone is just pathetic when you can't do anything


He didn't just lie on him. He was changing positions regularly, looking for openings, attempting submissions, and landing strikes. Even if you somehow missed these during the PPV look at the Fightmetric (the stats are very revealing). 

This sounds like something someone might say if they don't understand the ground game, no offense.


----------



## TheCleeM

TheNinja said:


> GSP just needs to quit telling everyone he wants to be remebered as the best. He's only stopped 2 of last 8 fights. and he lost one of those as well. You can count the BJ penn fight but he didn't really stop him and then there's the contraversey.
> 
> Now compare that to somewhat of the likes of Anderson Silva or fedor.
> 
> Silva over his last 8 fights in the UFC has finshed 7 of his last 8 fights in 2 different weight classes, by using a far more range of skills.


you are counting cote as a stoppage for silva? and earlier you were talking about people hanging on GSP'S sack? wow. he has stopped 7 of his last 8 by a wide range of skills! mostly knockout.... a few subs when people take him to the ground... and a voodoo spell he cast on cotes knee. but the people who appreciate gsp are hanging off the balls.




> a fighter is someone like
> 
> bj penn
> roger huerta
> wandy
> diego
> florian(penn fight excluded)
> shogun(machida fight excluded)
> chuck
> page


we get it. you like the stand up game. please keep booing when the fight gets in the clinch or goes to the ground so those of us around you at the bar know who to stay away from when it comes to intelligent MIXED martial arts conversation.


----------



## joe davola

HexRei said:


> He didn't just lie on him. He was changing positions regularly, looking for openings, attempting submissions, and landing strikes. Even if you somehow missed these during the PPV look at the Fightmetric (the stats are very revealing).
> 
> This sounds like something someone might say if they don't understand the ground game, no offense.


iv'e watched the fight twice and of course he hit him but if he is so great he would have finished that fight against hardy who was "undeserving" of the shot to alot of people and it's not just this fight it's every fight and i don't understand how everyone criticizes jake shields when gsp does the same thing



TheCleeM said:


> you are counting cote as a stoppage for silva? and earlier you were talking about people hanging on GSP'S sack? wow. he has stopped 7 of his last 8 by a wide range of skills! mostly knockout.... a few subs when people take him to the ground... and a voodoo spell he cast on cotes knee. but the people who appreciate gsp are hanging off the balls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we get it. you like the stand up game. please keep booing when the fight gets in the clinch or goes to the ground so those of us around you at the bar know who to stay away from when it comes to intelligent MIXED martial arts conversation.


diego fights on the ground so does huerta,penn,florian,shogun rampage against hendo was a great fight and he is someone else i forgot to put in there

maybe you should watch some MMA where fighters fight in all areas instead of just watching fitch,gsp,matt hughes and jake sheilds but at least now i know when it comes to intelligent MIXED martial arts conversation i know who to stay away from


----------



## No_Mercy

michelangelo said:


> I'll admit that this argument is highly speculative, and difficult or impossible to corroborate at this point in time. Nonetheless, I believe the truth of the matter will be made known in the next few days, weeks or months.
> 
> I believe GSP was simply toying with Hardy. Hardy was defenseless twice and GSP could have seriously injured him on both occasions. Each time GSP eased up and let go, not as a result of Hardy's sub defense, but because GSP allowed Hardy to escape.
> 
> At this point, GSP is simply too good for the WW division. This bout was literally an exhibition of wrestling and JJ holds, without any attempt to inflict damage on GSP's part. It was a bit like the Fedor vs. Aoki exhibition "match" with GSP playing the role of Fedor.
> 
> GSP was in a tough position: if he cranks Hardy's arm and hurts a young fighter, he becomes branded "the bad guy." But if he lets go of the holds, he risks damaging the competitive credibility of the UFC by not going full tilt, the implicit premise of any fight, especially a title fight.
> 
> An interesting contrast to the Palharas match to be sure, at the very least.
> 
> Discuss.


Hah..hah...had to rep you cuz I was thinkin' the same thing. It looked like a rolling session in a grappling contest. GSP getting an arm locked almost and Kimura and letting go. Hardy was without a doubt grimacing and stuck in that Kimura with his arm pinned. Only thing GSP should have done was drive the arm inward as it was too straight as his trainer mentioned. BUT that would have cranked his arm and popped it EZ and putting Hardy out for a good year. Hardy is lucky it wasn't Frank Mir there...

That folks is why GSP is a martial artist. He tries to win, but not completely maim his opponent. Even though in the conference GSP says he was trying to break it...I don't think he really meant it. The arm bar maybe, but the leverage was wrong. For kimura I've been stuck there and have done it on others. Had he torqued his entire body and muscle into it for ONE big push with all his might he would have snapped it.


----------



## thrshr01

[email protected] some of the commnts I'm seeing. He is a COMPETITOR, They are all COMPETITORS in a fight (combat) sport. Use your strength and play on your opponents weakness, that how you win. If you have a kill or be killed attitude, join the military. I hear they have some nice fights in iraq and afghanistan right now.


----------



## TheNinja

GSP fans are just mad because there man is boring and afraid to take a punch. Can you say "I was not impressed by your performance".


----------



## TheCleeM

joe davola said:


> diego fights on the ground so does huerta,penn,florian,shogun rampage against hendo was a great fight and he is someone else i forgot to put in there
> 
> maybe you should watch some MMA where fighters fight in all areas instead of just watching fitch,gsp,matt hughes and jake sheilds but at least now i know when it comes to intelligent MIXED martial arts conversation i know who to stay away from



you claimed that these were the "fighters." i never said i only like wrestlers but i surely can appreciate their style as well as brawlers and boxers. i like MMA. that includes wrestling. and its proven a pretty damn good base for a fighters skillset to start with.

you make a list of who you decided were real "fighters" and throw a list of guys who spend 80% of their time standing up and then when i point that out, you claim i only like fighters like fitch and gsp. thats a bit presumptuous.


----------



## jongurley

TheNinja said:


> First off the fight sucked. Why because only Dan Hardy came to Fight. Gsp came to win. Two different things there. It was like watching college wrestling with a couple punches and submissions. It baffles me that people are on here saying geroges let him out of the arm bars and Kimura beacuse he's a "nice guy" dude go watch another sport, and get off the guys sack if your this iggnorant. GSP is afraid of getting hit and this fight proved it.
> 
> I'm in such disbielf right now that GSP was flat out scared of Dan Hardy.The man doesn't desrve to be mentioned with Fedor, Anderson Silva. GSP's a one-trick pony that lays on people and does minimal damage and can't even finish fights.YOU CAN'T ARGUE THAT. Hardy's not even a top 10 WW and GSP didn't even try to fight him.
> 
> Every GSP fan I watched the fight with tonight was so pissed off. They were hoping he was going to announce he had another injury, and I just kept laughing.
> 
> People he was scared of Dan Hardy, is this sinking in to anyone yet. This is coming from the same guy who said he wants to be know as the greatest fighter ever..lol. Dude he's an amazing wrestler, that's it, why because he's scared to fight. He's basically the new Matt Hughes.
> 
> This fight really pissed me off. All respect lost for GSP. I gained a ton for Hardy. In my Heart Hardy won the I'm not the ***** award tonight.
> 
> I can't wait untill more people see this sad show of a performance.
> 
> Another thing, where does GSP get off calling out Hardy for not being a true Mixed Martial Artist when all he does is wrestle and use poor BJJ


I gained a ton of respect of Hardy also,, and I agree,, GSP has got just plain boring, he reminds me of Clay "lay and pray" Guida,, that is all GSP did,, lay and pray,, I don't really like GSP anymore to be honest,, :sarcastic12:


----------



## No_Mercy

michelangelo said:


> I was considering starting a new thread about this, but I don't have enough evidence to support it yet.
> 
> I believe GSP was simply toying with Hardy. Hardy was defenseless twice and GSP could have seriously injured him on both occasions. Each time GSP eased up and let go, not as a result of his own defense, but because GSP allowed him to escape.
> 
> At this point, GSP is simply too good for the WW division. This bout was literally an exhibition of wrestling and JJ holds, without any attempt to inflict damage on GSP's part. It was a bit like the Fedor vs. Aoki exhibition "match" with GSP playing the role of Fedor.
> 
> GSP was in a tough position: crank Hardy's arm and he hurts a young fighter and becomes branded "the bad guy." Let go of the holds and risk the competitive credibility of the UFC by not going full tilt, the implicit premise of any fight, especially a title fight.
> 
> Discuss.


Saw the other thread and added a comment. It did look like an exhibition match, but I'm sure GSP was trying to finish HOWEVER especially for the Kimura Hardy was lucky it wasn't Frank Mir. 

That's why GSP is a martial artist. He fights to win, but he's not looking to completely maim or hurt the opponent. 
Even though he said he was trying to break his arm in the press conference if he really wanted to he could have put in all his POWER and torque that key lock and completely snap it off. He didn't and he let it go. He's up four rounds, he could see Hardy grimacing in pain. There was only one move left, but he didn't go for it so Hardy should be respectful. 

I think that was GSP's message come to think of it. Martial arts was based on self defense but more importantly fundamentals and discipline. Once Hardy reviews the tape he'll understand. 

All in all though a good show of grittiness! GSP is gonna come out harder next time.


----------



## joe davola

TheCleeM;1146620you claim i only like fighters like fitch and gsp. thats a bit presumptuous.[/QUOTE said:


> you claim i only like stand up fights. thats a bit presumptuous


----------



## HexRei

Believe what you want but it's kind of silly to take your personal, and unevidenced belief that he could have finished but chose not to and then further extrapolate that into some kind of peaceful warrior TMA mentality of GSP's.


----------



## TheCleeM

joe davola said:


> you claim i only like stand up fights. thats a bit presumptuous


i quoted a list of who you stated are real "fighters". you people play semantics using terms like "competitor" compared to "fighter." or talking of getting in the cage to "win" rather than to "fight." its silly. they are mixed martial artists in arguably the most elite MMA company in the world. call them whatever you want. label, catagorize, and brand them by whichever style you prefer... but when it comes down to it they are in a chain link cage where punches are real and submissions hurt. they are fighters, competitors, artists, and professionals. all of them.


----------



## swpthleg

HexRei said:


> Believe what you want but it's kind of silly to take your personal, and unevidenced belief that he could have finished but chose not to and then further extrapolate that into some kind of peaceful warrior TMA mentality of GSP's.


I can't see GSP giving less than 100%. That would be like him throwing the fight.


----------



## LOJ

Dan Hardy didn't come to fight, he just came to prove that he is as tough as they come, and he succeeded.

He got outclassed and to me didn't want to defend anything at all. The times the fight was on the feet, he got tagged. 

GSP admitted that he did do things wrong in the fight. A lot of people are upset with GSP's style but at the end of the day, GSP did what he had to do. ( and didn'y get hurt at all)

I'm proud of GSP, he continues to be dominate at what he does and time and time again executes perfect game plans.

Just because we don't see an epic knockout or someone's face mangled doesn't mean it was a bad fight.

Think about this from GSP point of view. A dangerous striker like Dan Hardy. A fighter known for his power in his fists. If you where GSP why would you risk having your face smashed in, when you could easily, and I meen easily take him down and take his heart out of the fight. 

Hardy deserves big props for his heart, being that he wouldn't tap. Though the submission attempts could have been better (words from GSP) they where still really bad and Hardy was in crazy pain as his face tells the story. GSP did everything but rip Hardy's arm off last night. He cranked Hardy's arm as much as he could but the kid wouldn't quit. 

But at the same time, Hardy didn't look like he wanted to win this fight at all. There was no attempt at any offense thoughout the fight, or any attempt at any defence. He couldn't stop any of the takedowns and from what I seen last night was not having any luck on the feet either. Not that they whre on the feet long, but all the same.

I'm disapointed that Hardy didn't put forth any offense or attempt to steal this fight, but I'm proud that GSP dominated him in this fight. Hardy wouldn't quit, but he still got dominated for 25 minutes.


----------



## coldcall420

alizio said:


> honestly he did alright.
> 
> you ppl are exaggerating tho. he made ppl proud to be british by taking a 5 round beating?/
> 
> he never tried to turn the fight his way, he was in full defensive mode from the get go, he never let his hands go.
> 
> he accepted defeat in round 1.
> 
> his new game plan was to survive and not even make an offensive move.
> 
> if that makes all of england so proud i guess u guys been waiting along time for something to cheer for.
> 
> if cain got dominated for 5 rounds and didnt really try to mount offense once i wouldnt be going around saying how he did all of mexico proud and im proud to be mexican today.
> 
> like Jon Fitch says. its hard to finish guys that go into 100% survival mode and dont even mount offense.
> 
> Hardy did well not to tap, ppl shouldnt be making it like he accomplished the greatest feat ever by taking a through beating for 5 rounds.


 
I didn't read the rest of your post.....


he made me proud for taking that punishment and not quiting.. also as a Karate fighter that frankly struggles with my ci and keeping my mental focus stable....he was able to go to another planet when he was in that arm bar and Kimoura....IF YOU DIDN'T SEE THAT YOU REALLY DONT KNOW THE ESSENCE OF MARTIAL ARTS....he is NO LESS of a Martial Artist that GSP and as i said on other threads if this was a kick boxing fight the out come may have been way different....

I'M DONE....


----------



## out 4 the count

The only thing boring about that fight was how much better GSP was than Hardy. It wasn't even a contest. GSP did as and what he pleased with him for all 5 rounds and I'm 99% sure he could have finished him in any round after the 2nd had he pleased.

Basically I don't see how anybody can bash GSP purely because he's insanely good. I mean yeah, he could be a bit more flashy but he would lose his effectiveness. When there is as much on the line as there is in professional MMA, especially at the upper levels of the UFC, I don't see why he would pander to fans who should be watching K1.

I'm English as well, so there is no bias here, he absolutely tooled Hardy and fair play to him. I'd love to see Daley have a crack but after seeing what he did to Alves I'm not sure what Daley could do exactly.

I think it's time GSP stepped it up and cleared out the middleweight division.


----------



## No_Mercy

I wouldn't say it's personal I think there might be some others' out there who may think the same. GSP is not a type of fighter to want to intentionally hurt or kill someone. As he said in the press conference he prays before the fight for himself and the opponent to not get injured. This in it's highest form is martial arts. Sure his technique was slightly off, but at that point had used his entire body/shoulder/arm muscle to torque it he could have broke that arm in half. He didn't try to throw the fight in any way, but I'm saying that was the only way left to end the fight cuz Dan was not tapping. 

For example look at Rousimar Palhares, Babalu, or Frank Mir.


----------



## Damone

Not tapping is stupid, because he really could've gotten his arm snapped. He's lucky GSP showed compassion.

Hardy did nothing the entire time except get smoked. He should've brought that tiger with him.


----------



## LOJ

They're bashing GSP simply because at least 50% of the forum have never trained or fought at a competitive level and don't understand what it's like to face someone that is known for their KO power. 

It would be a dumb move for GSP to strike with Hardy. I believe GSP is the better striker, but Hardy has the power in his hands to end anyone's night at welter weight. 

Why would you stand with someone that you know you can dominate on the ground, it makes no sense.


----------



## joe davola

TheCleeM said:


> i quoted a list of who you stated are real "fighters".QUOTE]
> 
> yeah and most of them have a serious ground game but you failed to ackowledge it and i love grappling matches like sots/stevenson, maia/mcdonald and most maia fights, rollens/warmachine, but most importantly i like MMA fights like
> 
> shogun/nog
> hendo/page
> diaz/gomi
> qurry/creduer
> sanchez/guida
> guida/huerta
> 
> i can't think of anymore right now but some more will pop in


----------



## swpthleg

LOJ said:


> They're bashing GSP simply because at least 50% of the forum have never trained or fought at a competitive level and don't understand what it's like to face someone that is known for their KO power.
> 
> It would be a dumb move for GSP to strike with Hardy. I believe GSP is the better striker, but Hardy has the power in his hands to end anyone's night at welter weight.
> 
> Why would you stand with someone that you know you can dominate on the ground, it makes no sense.


To make people who think that any ground fighting is LnP, happy?


----------



## LOJ

TheNinja said:


> GSP fans are just mad because there man is boring and afraid to take a punch. Can you say "I was not impressed by your performance".


Afraid to take a punch?

Georges has 22 pro mixed martial arts fights?

Anyone who fights at a pro level, or fights amateur is not afraid to get hit, you learn early in your career that your going to get hit. Obviously preventing getting hit is something you want to learn because it's not all that fun to get punched in face.

If you actually like getting punched in the face, you have something wrong with you and need help.

Have you ever been hit in the face? Personally getting punched in the face sucks bro.

Why get punched in the face when you can dominate someone on the ground and be healthy for the next month or so?


----------



## TheCleeM

joe davola said:


> TheCleeM said:
> 
> 
> 
> i quoted a list of who you stated are real "fighters".QUOTE]
> 
> yeah and most of them have a serious ground game but you failed to ackowledge it and i love grappling matches like sots/stevenson, maia/mcdonald and most maia fights, rollens/warmachine, but most importantly i like MMA fights like
> 
> shogun/nog
> hendo/page
> diaz/gomi
> qurry/creduer
> sanchez/guida
> guida/huerta
> 
> i can't think of anymore right now but some more will pop in
> 
> 
> 
> good to hear. those were some great fights.
Click to expand...


----------



## LOJ

TheCleeM said:


> joe davola said:
> 
> 
> 
> good to hear. those were some great fights.
> 
> 
> 
> Great to watch. Horrible to be in.
Click to expand...


----------



## Dobermann

The thing with gsp fights is that they're always so one sided and some people may get tired of seeing him tooled every fighters in his division. He makes it look easy but thats a testament to his talent. To me a true champion is that special fighter that shines above the others and you cant argue that gsp is that special fighter in the ww division.I mean you may not like his style,and that's fine with me but you gotta respect the fact that he's a dominant champion.


----------



## coldcall420

Damone said:


> Not tapping is stupid, because he really could've gotten his arm snapped. He's lucky GSP showed compassion.
> 
> Hardy did nothing the entire time except get smoked. He should've brought that tiger with him.


 

My point is the mental discipline it takes to go to another place....forget the Tiger....your telling me other dudes wouldn't have tapped sooner????


----------



## joe davola

Vale_Tudo said:


> What it is, is actually stupidity!
> Why risk throwing your entire career away because you have this "never tap tough guy" mentality.
> 
> Yes, It worked out fine this time, but who's to say the next guy wont shatter that arm and put him In the unemployment line


heaps of people have had there arm broke and are still continuing fighting you ******* *****


----------



## coldcall420

TraMaI said:


> If you knew anything about BJJ, you'd know that
> 
> A) Georges made small but KEY technical mistakes on those two sub attempts. Yes, lesser men would've tapped, but they were what allowed Hardy to survive and get out. For one, he both 1) allowed Hardy to turn his arm in the armbar and 2) did not have his arm in the right position. When you apply an armbar, the joint is supposed to be on your groin/hip area, Hardy's upper bicep was there, not the joint. This means that the torque GSP was applying was both negated slightly by Hardy turning his arm and the soft flesh of his muscle cushioning his arm being pulled back so it relieved stress on the joint.
> 
> B) During the Kimura Georges did NOT lean forward and over Hardy's back like he should've so he could get the correct angle to run his arm more. By staying where he was, Georges allow Hardy to turn his body and move his hips with the submission, negating some of the torque on his shoulder and elbow. The other mistake he made was not placing his leg over Dan's head, which both immobilizes him to an extent and allows him to get a better angle. He also didn't move his right leg toward Dan's stomach, which would've allowed more torque but had Hardy not given up/got his shit snapped it would've lost Georges' position a lot easier, which is why he didn't do it.
> 
> 
> In short: The armbar wasn't applied right and Georges didn't crank the Kimura because he would've lost his position. Georges was being SAFE in that fight and wanted to win by submission less than he wanted to give up position and possibly lose the fight.
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Also, I agree with Ninja. Georges was VERY afraid to get hit in the fight. The few times Hardy hit him in the face from guard GSP looked like he wanted NOTHING to do with it and instantly sucked him head in and laid there for a second. Like Both of us said, now, GSP very, very obviously took the safe route to win that fight. Hardy came to fight, Georges came to win. I'm not saying it's a BAD thing that GSP came to win, because it's not and he obviously did because of that, but it's the truth behind it. GSP is more worried about protecting his legacy than finishing opponents and it's become increasingly more apparent in his last few fights.


 
Basically this.......and I'm sick of GSP doing this every fight.....finish the f*cker!!! It's so obvious too, I mean he knows what he is doing GSp but he comes out fully expecting to o 5 rounds.....


Let me ask you, ow do you get excited about a guy that PLANS to fight all 5????, eventually it gets a little boring....


----------



## LOJ

What I don't understand is simply this..

Dan Hardy is in a pro - championship mixed martial arts fight, (the biggest fight of his entire life; no doubt) - with someone who we all know is great at wrestling; and great at having complete control on the ground. 

He makes little, to no attempts at stopping the champion from taking him down and controlling him. The two very things that he should have trained (and learned), and the very things the champion is sooo + good at. 

Yet he makes up for it in not tapping. Great game-plan Dan. Make no attempt at winning the fight, just make sure you don't tap out cause you will be a quitter and a loser then. But it's fine to be a loser and be dominated for 25 minutes cause after all you never quit; and that was the object of the fight to begin with.

I'm proud of him for not giving in, but disappointed that he didn't want the win as bad as GSP wanted it. This was everything to Dan Hardy, and when he got in there he didn't want it bad enough to go for it.


----------



## Evo

TheNinja said:


> First off the fight sucked. Why because only Dan Hardy came to Fight. Gsp came to win.


Why didn't hardy stop the take downs? If you don't want the fight to go to the ground, practice your take down defense.


----------



## LOJ

If Hardy came to fight, he would have thrown that big KO punch that everyone talks about instead of letting GSP take him down and fondle him.

Dan Hardy came to prove that he wasn't a quitter, instead of coming into the fight to put GSP in his place.


----------



## coldcall420

LOJ said:


> They're bashing GSP simply because at least 50% of the forum have never trained or fought at a competitive level and don't understand what it's like to face someone that is known for their KO power.
> 
> It would be a dumb move for GSP to strike with Hardy. I believe GSP is the better striker, but Hardy has the power in his hands to end anyone's night at welter weight.
> 
> Why would you stand with someone that you know you can dominate on the ground, it makes no sense.


 

A.) Cuz he can stand with him he just doesn't want to....

B.) He has done the same thing in all his fights since Serra, he isn't using all of his "well roundedness' he is simply a wrestler.....


----------



## thrshr01

coldcall420 said:


> He has done the same thing in all his fights since Serra, he isn't using all of his "well roundedness' he is simply a wrestler.....


Then it should be pretty easy to predict what he's doing and it's up to the challenfger to figure that out to beat him. He has the belt, he doesn't have to change his game plan if he doesn't want to. He got his belt and retained it doing so, why change it?


----------



## LOJ

coldcall420 said:


> A.) Cuz he can stand with him he just doesn't want to....
> 
> B.) He has done the same thing in all his fights since Serra, he isn't using all of his "well roundedness' he is simply a wrestler.....


Agreed.

GSP is using his sweet spot, but hell' everyone is letting him do it. If someone could stop his take downs then we would see GSP's great technical striking.

If I we're winning fights by using a certain style (whether it be boring or not) I would care less what the fan's thought. Simply because at the end of the day it's my body in there and my career on the line. If I can win a fight by not getting put in the hospital, then your body is going to do that. You can fight it with your mind, but sometimes it's just natural that it be that way. 

The human body is not meant to take pain, and it reacts to pain in different ways. If we can get out of something without having to deal with being hurt, then we'll do it. That's just the way we are.

A loss to Dan Hardy would have been horrible.


----------



## coldcall420

thrshr01 said:


> Then it should be pretty easy to predict what he's doing and it's up to the challenfger to figure that out to beat him. He has the belt, he doesn't have to change his game plan if he doesn't want to. He got his belt and retained it doing so, why change it?


I'm not taking away from it, I'm saying it's all he does and he has other skills he could use, the division at this point has no one that can beat him, how many more times do we have to watch this.....FTR....my first time bitching about this, i have always defended GSP but that was in the past in this fight there were multiple ways for him to finish it......



LOJ said:


> Agreed.
> 
> GSP is using his sweet spot, but hell' everyone is letting him do it. If someone could stop his take downs then we would see GSP's great technical striking.
> 
> If I we're winning fights by using a certain style (whether it be boring or not) I would care less what the fan's thought. Simply because at the end of the day it's my body in there and my career on the line. If I can win a fight by not getting put in the hospital, then your body is going to do that. You can fight it with your mind, but sometimes it's just natural that it be that way.
> 
> The human body is not meant to take pain, and it reacts to pain in different ways. If we can get out of something without having to deal with being hurt, then we'll do it. That's just the way we are.
> 
> A loss to Dan Hardy would have been horrible.


I think at 185 he would be forced to use some more of his tool belt.....


----------



## LOJ

coldcall420 said:


> I'm not taking away from it, I'm saying it's all he does and he has other skills he could use, the division at this point has no one that can beat him, how many more times do we have to watch this.....FTR....my first time bitching about this, i have always defended GSP but that was in the past in this fight there were multiple ways for him to finish it......
> 
> 
> 
> I think at 185 he would be forced to use some more of his tool belt.....


He won't have to use his stand up tools if no one stops his take downs. Surely there is someone at 185 pounds though that can stop themselves from being molested.

GSP has great stand-up, I don't think it's as good as Anderson Silva's un-orthodox muay thai but if Silva can't stop a take-down, the same thing will continue to happen. (by the way I used Anderson Silva as a reference because hes king at 185 pounds)

That my friend is.. ****. By a man who has a whole lot a ridduuuuuuuuum.


----------



## swpthleg

I don't want to get all worked up over a fight that is never going to happen.

What does intrigue me is the concept of GSP stepping out of what seems to have become his comfort zone. As an elite athlete, it's a given that he wants to constantly challenge himself. I'm going to continue hoping that one day, that will translate to USING HIS KARATE........Oh hell. Who am I kidding?


----------



## coldcall420

LOJ said:


> He won't have to use his stand up tools if no one stops his take downs. Surely there is someone at 185 pounds though that can stop themselves from being molested.
> 
> GSP has great stand-up, I don't think it's as good as Anderson Silva's un-orthodox muay thai but if Silva can't stop a take-down, the same thing will continue to happen. (by the way I used Anderson Silva as a reference because hes king at 185 pounds)
> 
> That my friend is.. ****. By a man who has a whole lot a ridduuuuuuuuum.


 
Agreed brother, part of me is pissed cuz GSP says he's the Martial Artist, he didn't prove that moreover he could have IMO....i know that would be the more risky approach at the same time one that in my mind GSP is capable of, when he first got to the UFC he was a striker more than a wrestler then he trained with the Canadian Olympic team and all that and his while approach changed, it's like he morphed Matt Hughs except at least Hughs would posture up more and GnP.....


----------



## LOJ

I would also love for him to showcase his Karate, but why fix something that's not yet broken?

Edit: Agreed ColdCall, I don't think there was much if any GNP from GSP at all in the fight. More or less just the sub attempts.


----------



## coldcall420

LOJ said:


> I would also love for him to showcase his Karate, but why fix something that's not yet broken?
> 
> Edit: Agreed ColdCall, I don't think there was much if any GNP from GSP at all in the fight.





swpthleg said:


> I don't want to get all worked up over a fight that is never going to happen.
> 
> What does intrigue me is the concept of GSP stepping out of what seems to have become his comfort zone. As an elite athlete, it's a given that he wants to constantly challenge himself. I'm going to continue hoping that one day, that will translate to USING HIS KARATE........Oh hell. Who am I kidding?


 
^^^THIS^^^

@LOJ....Because it proves he is one dimensional and his ownfans want to see it....


----------



## thrshr01

coldcall420 said:


> I'm not taking away from it, I'm saying it's all he does and he has other skills he could use, the division at this point has no one that can beat him, how many more times do we have to watch this.....FTR....my first time bitching about this, i have always defended GSP but that was in the past in this fight there were multiple ways for him to finish it......


I'm not saying you are or think that you were. I guess I've just been frustrated to see the criticism that he's received on these boards. Rogan was right about the "meathead metality". If it's not a stand up throw caution in the wind slug fest, people say it's boring. I don't think I've ever heard or seen anyone complain that Chuck never let it get to the ground. I came to love MMA becuase of what it brings to the table...everything. You have to be very well versed in every aspect of the art of fighting or you won't go very far.


----------



## fightfan3223

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum and this is my first post.

First of all I'd like to say the fight went as expected. I don't understand why people are crying about the way GSP has been fighting, isn't MMA a sport? A win is a win, and if a so called "martial-artist" has a weak ground game he is going to be exploited by GSP. This by no means makes GSP afraid of him, that's ridiculous. If he had a strong ground game, GSP would've stood up and destroyed him there. You can't blame it on GSP for being the most complete fighter in the world right now, blame it on the people making the fight who are throwing in young fighters who are by no means ready to fight the champ. My message to the rest of the welterweights.. get better. If you have one whole in your game, GSP will exploit it. My message to all you complainers, quit crying. This is a sport, why should GSP risk losing by playing to an opponents strengths? Would an NFL team air it out offensively against a very good secondary when they have a weak defensive front just to please the crowd? I hope not. If you wanna watch these fights to be excited and/or aroused, take your tissues and jar of vaseline:sarcastic12: to a WWE wrestling match and shut your mouth. GSP's #1 job title is to keep the belt, and after he does that he can worry about entertanining you. Like I said, it's not his fault he's THAT much better than the competition and is a complete fighter, I enjoy watching him because he has turned the sport into an art form, not just two dudes with bashed up faces throwing hay-makers and trying for a lucky knock-out. 

P.S. I hope I didn't offend too many people with my first post :thumb02:


----------



## vandalian

A little harsh, but you made a good point.


----------



## coldcall420

Here fightfan.....



Here let George tell you.....


http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/03/...ry-critical-of-performance-following-ufc-111/

He says he tries for the sub too much.....


----------



## coldcall420

thrshr01 said:


> I'm not saying you are or think that you were.* I guess I've just been frustrated to see the criticism that he's received on these boards. Rogan was right about the "meathead metality*". If it's not a stand up throw caution in the wind slug fest, people say it's boring. I don't think I've ever heard or seen anyone complain that Chuck never let it get to the ground. I came to love MMA becuase of what it brings to the table...everything. You have to be very well versed in every aspect of the art of fighting or you won't go very far.


 
With all due respect dude I know MMA very well, I dont have the "meat head meantality".....You should get to know me as a member before you assume thats the way i think.....I love MMA and all disciplines.....listen to GSP tell you what I'm trying to....I dont need to see a slug fest but if a guy says he is a martial artist and Dan hardy will know that by the time he leaves then prove it, instead Dan hardy left knowing GSP cant break his arm and doesn't want to taste any stand up....I bet GSP.....:thumbsup:


http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/03/...ry-critical-of-performance-following-ufc-111/


----------



## LOJ

Dana White said it best: " This is MMA, and you've got to have take down defense " - Simply put, and pretty much sums up this fight.


----------



## thrshr01

coldcall420 said:


> With all due respect dude I know MMA very well, I dont have the "meat head meantality".....You should get to know me as a member before you assume thats the way i think.....I love MMA and all disciplines.....listen to GSP tell you what I'm trying to....I dont need to see a slug fest but if a guy says he is a martial artist and Dan hardy will know that by the time he leaves then prove it, instead Dan hardy left knowing GSP cant break his arm and doesn't want to taste any stand up....I bet GSP.....:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/03/...ry-critical-of-performance-following-ufc-111/


I knew I should have worded that better. I wasn't saying that you have that mentality, I was talking about some on the boards that call anything that isn't a stand up fight boring. I've actually enjoyed quite a few of your posts...even the uber extreme Machida nut-huggery :thumb02:


----------



## coldcall420

LOL thanks, I wasnt tryin to rip just be clear, i know what you mean in that aspect, but in this cas do you agree there were a lot of ways to end it and he should have????





@ LOJ................All I can say is you know more about computers than me for sure.....:thumb02:


----------



## fightfan3223

All he is saying is that he made a few mistakes and should have dominated the fight even more than he did. He doesn't say he should have stood with Hardy, or anything like that. I think GSP just cares what his fans think of him, but like I said at the end of the day winning of the only thing that matters. He could've knocked Hardy out on his feet, submitted him, TKO, etc. The results are the same.. he is WW champion, he doesn't get a little badge on his belt for the knockout.. the only difference is people on a forum call him a wrestler and not a martial artist because he dominated another fighter without causing severe brain damage or making him spill a couple pints of blood. All I'm saying is if your a true MMA fan, you respect Georges and what he has accomplished, and you respect his drive to be the best of all time. To be the best of all time you WIN the most and lose the least, not knock people out the most. I agree he should've went away from the submission a little, but it was all in strategy, he knew Hardy's left arm was hurting and continuously went for it. Because he didn't finish, he's going to look back and say he should've GnP'd him more. Georges being unhappy with a dominating victory just shows you how good of a fighter he is and his expectations for greatness. If you're a fan of the sport and not the "thrill" of fights, you recognize him for his dominance, game-planning, and ability to motivate himself against inferior opponents. The man is a beast, if you are gonna criticize him for not blatantly lowering his chances of keeping his belt just to please a few fans, I'll be forced to label you a *HATER*


----------



## coldcall420

fightfan3223 said:


> All he is saying is that he made a few mistakes and should have dominated the fight even more than he did. He doesn't say he should have stood with Hardy, or anything like that. I think GSP just cares what his fans think of him, but like I said at the end of the day winning of the only thing that matters. He could've knocked Hardy out on his feet, submitted him, TKO, etc. The results are the same.. he is WW champion, he doesn't get a little badge on his belt for the knockout.. the only difference is people on a forum call him a wrestler and not a martial artist because he dominated another fighter without causing severe brain damage or making him spill a couple pints of blood. All I'm saying is if your a true MMA fan, you respect Georges and what he has accomplished, and you respect his drive to be the best of all time. To be the best of all time you WIN the most and lose the least, not knock people out the most. I agree he should've went away from the submission a little, but it was all in strategy, he knew Hardy's left arm was hurting and continuously went for it. Because he didn't finish, he's going to look back and say he should've GnP'd him more. Georges being unhappy with a dominating victory just shows you how good of a fighter he is and his expectations for greatness. If you're a fan of the sport and not the "thrill" of fights, you recognize him for his dominance, game-planning, and ability to motivate himself against inferior opponents. The man is a beast, if you are gonna criticize him for not blatantly lowering his chances of keeping his belt just to please a few fans, I'll be forced to label you a *HATER*


 
Respect to you....you have 2 post here and have never seen the countless threads I have devoted to defending this now "common theme' in terms of GSP's fighting style...last night or Sat was the first time I was fed up with it....why??? Cuz I'm a hater??? No...cuz GSP called out hardy as a Martial Artist then lay on him for 5 rd's....


There is a button in the top right of your screen search feature coldcall420.....read me defend GSP....learn your way around here before you label anyone....


----------



## KittenStrangler

TheNinja said:


> First off the fight sucked. Why because only Dan Hardy came to Fight. Gsp came to win. Two different things there. It was like watching college wrestling with a couple punches and submissions. It baffles me that people are on here saying geroges let him out of the arm bars and Kimura beacuse he's a "nice guy" dude go watch another sport, and get off the guys sack if your this iggnorant. GSP is afraid of getting hit and this fight proved it.
> 
> I'm in such disbielf right now that GSP was flat out scared of Dan Hardy.The man doesn't desrve to be mentioned with Fedor, Anderson Silva. GSP's a one-trick pony that lays on people and does minimal damage and can't even finish fights.YOU CAN'T ARGUE THAT. Hardy's not even a top 10 WW and GSP didn't even try to fight him.
> 
> Every GSP fan I watched the fight with tonight was so pissed off. They were hoping he was going to announce he had another injury, and I just kept laughing.
> 
> People he was scared of Dan Hardy, is this sinking in to anyone yet. This is coming from the same guy who said he wants to be know as the greatest fighter ever..lol. Dude he's an amazing wrestler, that's it, why because he's scared to fight. He's basically the new Matt Hughes.
> 
> This fight really pissed me off. All respect lost for GSP. I gained a ton for Hardy. In my Heart Hardy won the I'm not the ***** award tonight.
> 
> I can't wait untill more people see this sad show of a performance.
> 
> Another thing, where does GSP get off calling out Hardy for not being a true Mixed Martial Artist when all he does is wrestle and use poor BJJ


Agreed completely. GSP came to win, Hardy came to fight/entertain. It sickens me that people have the nerve to put GSP up there with Anderson, Lyoto, BJ etc. He isn't the best MMA fighter, he's the best wrestler. Nothing more, nothing less. I laugh even harder when people say he's the best striker in the UFC. LOL. Yea, that's why he's afraid to get Serra'd again and avoids the stand up.


----------



## AlphaDawg

This is the only fight I didn't watch on the card. GSP bores the hell out of me.


----------



## HellRazor

fightfan3223 said:


> Hey guys, I'm new to the forum and this is my first post.
> 
> This is a sport, why should GSP risk losing by playing to an opponents strengths? Would an NFL team air it out offensively against a very good secondary when they have a weak defensive front just to please the crowd?


If that's your first post, congratulations on at least making it an intelligent one. 

GSP went about this fight in a way such that he couldn't lose, THEN tried, as best he could, to make it entertaining. He wanted the stoppage. He tried for the stoppage. He didn't risk actually _losing_.

For all those calling this fight boring, ask yourself, was Mir-Carwin truly more entertaining. Mir had that level of advantage over Carwin on the ground. But he didn't get him there. And look what happened.


----------



## drey2k

Well another dominating performance from the 3rd most boring fighter in the UFC over someone with no take down defence.


----------



## thrshr01

coldcall420 said:


> LOL thanks, I wasnt tryin to rip just be clear, i know what you mean in that aspect, but in this cas do you agree there were a lot of ways to end it and he should have????


Absolutely I agree that he could have finished the fight in many ways. I made a comment on these boards during the fight that GSP looked frustrated and now I know why. He wanted to end the fight with a sub so badly that he forgot or negated the other tools that he has. I was hoping for a vicious GNP but never happened. Still entertained with the fight though as he showed that he can go in and out of people guard pretty much at will...with or without vaseline :confused05:


----------



## LOJ

KittenStrangler said:


> Agreed completely. GSP came to win, Hardy came to fight/entertain. It sickens me that people have the nerve to put GSP up there with Anderson, Lyoto, BJ etc. He isn't the best MMA fighter, he's the best wrestler. Nothing more, nothing less. I laugh even harder when people say he's the best striker in the UFC. LOL. Yea, that's why he's afraid to get Serra'd again and avoids the stand up.


You have to understand the concept of a game plan and being the smarter fighter..

Do you hate Anderson Silva because he doesn't go for a take down?

Didn't think so.

How stupid of a fighter would GSP have to be to stand with Dan Hardy knowing he has that one chance of knocking you out.

How about this..

Give Dan Hardy 0% chance of winning the fight and take him down and be like flies on dog shit.


----------



## fightfan3223

Coldcall, I should've seperated my message. Only the beginning was towards you. The rest was more geared towards the pages of people describing GSP's win as boring or as him being afraid of Hardy with no foundation behind it. 

As far him showing that he was a mixed martial artist and Hardy was not.. he absolutely did that! *MIXED* martial artist means you can do more than one thing, you don't just box, you don't just wrestle, you do it all. In the interview you posted, GSP explains how he knew his striking was likely superior to Hardy's, but his odds of winning were much greater on the ground. My point is the fight may be boring, but it's not Georges fault that fighters come in with no take down defense and let him destroy them at will. It's not GSP's fault the fight was boring, It's Hardy's. The problem is GSP gets all the hate for it being boring, and Hardy gets labeled as a hero for not tapping out of an arm bar. Let's get real.. Hardy talked shit on GSP like he had him figured out.. Anyone could've told you GSP would try to take him down.. So to Hardy: Before you talk shit on the WW champ and say every GSP fan will be crying on March 28th, work on some take down defense bud. Take your British swagger back to the gym, and learn to be more than a one trick pony before you call out the champ again. If you want a more exciting fight, Hardy has to make it harder for GSP to impose his will on him.


----------



## fightfan3223

HellRazor,
Couldn't agree more. Mir's career will never be what it once was after this loss, and it's because he didn't take advantage of his obvious advantages. If you're not a complete fighter and you come in to fight GSP, you're toast. Why were the GSP/Penn fights so good? Because Penn has a good ground and striking game. The fault is on Hardy, the only thing exciting about him is his red mohawk and his gay pirate chant...


----------



## HellRazor

TraMaI said:


> Also, I agree with Ninja. Georges was VERY afraid to get hit in the fight. The few times Hardy hit him in the face from guard GSP looked like he wanted NOTHING to do with it and instantly sucked him head in and laid there for a second.


Excuse me, but have you ever actually been _hit_ in the face by somebody with physical gifts and ill intent? I have, and what you call fear, I call sanity. There is NO fighter, not ONE, who's gonna take a serious shot to the face when they don't have to in order to win. That's masochism, not fighting.



GSP had a 100% solution to a win in this. A ONE HUNDRED PERCENT SOLUTION. A fairly rare thing in a title fight. He got 10-8 rounds from two judges, without a knockdown. Go find that.

Go find a title fight where the challenger generated LESS offense. I don't know if Hardy came to fight or not. I know he DIDN'T fight. He defended for 25 minutes, with relative degrees of success. That's all.


----------



## Indestructibl3

Lemme some this up, I'll say most of the people who consider St.Pierre boring, have no interest/knowledge of wrestling/jj, they are merely "oh bro! knock him the f8ck out! *fight goes to the ground* "oh shit ref, stand 'em up! i dont wanna see two guys humping each other".

Honestly guys, come on - GSP is smart, he had a good game plan and was in fact looking for the finish - however unfortunately it didn't come. 



LOJ said:


> Do you hate Anderson Silva because he doesn't go for a take down?
> 
> Didn't think so.


Exactly, Anderson's strongest point is his Muay Thai - thus he keeps the fight on the feet and attempts to T/KO his opponent. Whereas GSP's strongest point is his wrestling - thus he takes his opponent to the mat, and attempts to finish them there.

No one complains about Anderson Silva because he goes to his strong point.


----------



## coldcall420

fightfan3223 said:


> Coldcall, I should've seperated my message. Only the beginning was towards you. The rest was more geared towards the pages of people describing GSP's win as boring or as him being afraid of Hardy with no foundation behind it.
> 
> As far him showing that he was a mixed martial artist and Hardy was not.. he absolutely did that! *MIXED* martial artist means you can do more than one thing, you don't just box, you don't just wrestle, you do it all. In the interview you posted, GSP explains how he knew his striking was likely superior to Hardy's, but his odds of winning were much greater on the ground. My point is the fight may be boring, but it's not Georges fault that fighters come in with no take down defense and let him destroy them at will. It's not GSP's fault the fight was boring, It's Hardy's. The problem is GSP gets all the hate for it being boring, and Hardy gets labeled as a hero for not tapping out of an arm bar. Let's get real.. Hardy talked shit on GSP like he had him figured out.. Anyone could've told you GSP would try to take him down.. So to Hardy: Before you talk shit on the WW champ and say every GSP fan will be crying on March 28th, work on some take down defense bud. Take your British swagger back to the gym, and learn to be more than a one trick pony before you call out the champ again. If you want a more exciting fight, Hardy has to make it harder for GSP to impose his will on him.


 
Sorry to nit pick....but GSP said "Martial Artist" not "mixed martial Artist' then your point would carry much more weight and that comment would never have been pasted by me.....but he didn't, he said..."Martial Artist" and you know what.....we'll never know if GSP really is or Hardy in a match up cuz all they did was lay on the mat for 25 Min's of.......


----------



## munkie

TheNinja said:


> First off the fight sucked. Why because only Dan Hardy came to Fight. Gsp came to win. Two different things there. It was like watching college wrestling with a couple punches and submissions. It baffles me that people are on here saying geroges let him out of the arm bars and Kimura beacuse he's a "nice guy" dude go watch another sport, and get off the guys sack if your this iggnorant. GSP is afraid of getting hit and this fight proved it.
> 
> I'm in such disbielf right now that GSP was flat out scared of Dan Hardy.The man doesn't desrve to be mentioned with Fedor, Anderson Silva. GSP's a one-trick pony that lays on people and does minimal damage and can't even finish fights.YOU CAN'T ARGUE THAT. Hardy's not even a top 10 WW and GSP didn't even try to fight him.
> 
> Every GSP fan I watched the fight with tonight was so pissed off. They were hoping he was going to announce he had another injury, and I just kept laughing.
> 
> People he was scared of Dan Hardy, is this sinking in to anyone yet. This is coming from the same guy who said he wants to be know as the greatest fighter ever..lol. Dude he's an amazing wrestler, that's it, why because he's scared to fight. He's basically the new Matt Hughes.
> 
> This fight really pissed me off. All respect lost for GSP. I gained a ton for Hardy. In my Heart Hardy won the I'm not the ***** award tonight.
> 
> I can't wait untill more people see this sad show of a performance.
> 
> Another thing, where does GSP get off calling out Hardy for not being a true Mixed Martial Artist when all he does is wrestle and use poor BJJ


Do you know anything about anything? This fight proves that GSP can do whatever he wants when he fights. He wanted to take Hardy down and he did. Hardy knew this was the gameplan. It's not up to GSP to be a different fighter just because his opponent is inferior. GSP did what GSP has always done. It's not his fault this was a shitty fight. It's Hardys, for not being able to do anything despite knowing what GSP was up to the entire time. Hardy had the sad performance.


----------



## coldcall420

HellRazor said:


> Excuse me, but have you ever actually been _hit_ in the face by somebody with physical gifts and ill intent? I have, and what you call fear, I call sanity. There is NO fighter, not ONE, who's gonna take a serious shot to the face when they don't have to in order to win. That's masochism, not fighting.
> 
> 
> 
> GSP had a 100% solution to a win in this. A ONE HUNDRED PERCENT SOLUTION. A fairly rare thing in a title fight. He got 10-8 rounds from two judges, without a knockdown. Go find that.
> 
> Go find a title fight where the challenger generated LESS offense. I don't know if Hardy came to fight or not. I know he DIDN'T fight. He defended for 25 minutes, with relative degrees of success. That's all.


 
You know what Tra does right???? teaches Martial Arts....to ask if he's been hit in the face is....well i guess yes he has been hit in the face but he can tell you more....he was capable of staying on his feet and winning and the old him would have done that.......I dont give a sht what anyone on this thread says as far as that goes.......


GSP took the easy way admit it.....


EDIT: my point to all that say how dumb would GSP be to stand with hardy, he did and had success in the brief instances when he did it....


----------



## fightfan3223

I guess not. and my bad for the mix up. But he is the better mixed martial artist, and showed that easily. At the end of the day, Hardy talked a lot of crap and showed up without the tools to even make it interesting. He had nothing to lose, why not come out after Georges instead of boxing with him waiting for an inevitable take down. If you come in with no take down defense and knock out power, go right for his throat. He was standing there boxing with him like he actually had an answer for Georges shooting on him. Maybe it's the red mohawk, but I'm glad Hardy got STFU.


----------



## KittenStrangler

LOJ said:


> You have to understand the concept of a game plan and being the smarter fighter..
> 
> Do you hate Anderson Silva because he doesn't go for a take down?
> 
> Didn't think so.
> 
> How stupid of a fighter would GSP have to be to stand with Dan Hardy knowing he has that one chance of knocking you out.
> 
> How about this..
> 
> Give Dan Hardy 0% chance of winning the fight and take him down and be like flies on dog shit.


I don't hate GSP. I hate his fighting style. If you were to advertise GSP's fights on a poster and say "Who wants to see a guy takedown his opponent and lay on top of him for 25 minutes?" No one would buy it. His strategy is intelligent but it is incredibly boring to watch and the fact he's champion only makes it worse. 3 rounds is unbearable, 5 rounds is unwatchable.


----------



## AlphaDawg

It's amazing how people will give Fitch crap for what he does but then those same people will defend GSP. It's insane.


----------



## coldcall420

fightfan3223 said:


> I guess not. and my bad for the mix up. But he is the better mixed martial artist, and showed that easily. At the end of the day, Hardy talked a lot of crap and showed up without the tools to even make it interesting. He had nothing to lose, why not come out after Georges instead of boxing with him waiting for an inevitable take down. If you come in with no take down defense and knock out power, go right for his throat. He was standing there boxing with him like he actually had an answer for Georges shooting on him. Maybe it's the red mohawk, but I'm glad Hardy got STFU.


 
Once your red rep you cant rep anyone neg or pos....:thumbsup:

He didn't show that easily he was the better Martial Artist, how can you say he is a better Martial Artist when he was laying down for 23.5 Min's???? Part of Martial Arts is striking from your feet....


----------



## JohnnyCrisp22

I don't understand the logic of some people here at all.

It's not a contest to see who can punch who the hardest - it's mixed martial arts, and every fighter is free to use whatever tools they have to maximize their chance of winning.

Obviously wrestling isn't the most exciting thing to watch, but what the hell did you expect GSP to do?

He's a world champion defending his belt - why would he intentionally decrease his chances of winning the fight by trying to stand with Hardy. Even if he thinks his stand up is superior, it's basic logic that he should attack Hardy where he has the best chance to win.

Criticizing GSP for using his takedowns is ultimately no different from criticizing, say, Anderson Silva, for using his stand up. The only difference is that stand up is more fun to watch.

Ridiculous logic.

And it's not like GSP wasn't desperately trying to finish the fight anyway. The guy completely dominates Hardy for 5 rounds and all he can say in the post fight interview is how sorry he is that it went to a decision. Just look at the urgency on his face to try and finish in the 4th and 5th rounds.

If anything it was just a testament to Hardy's toughness that the fight went to a decision.


----------



## hellholming

TheNinja said:


> GSP's a one-trick pony that lays on people and does minimal damage and can't even finish fights.YOU CAN'T ARGUE THAT. Hardy's not even a top 10 WW and GSP didn't even try to fight him.


and how many guys have finished Hardy, Fitch and Alves? riight....


----------



## Syxx Paq

OK SIR. Dan Hardy has Balls made of more metal then Duke Nukem, even in a loss like that i gained the world in respect for him. DONT say it hurts the sports cred because GSP didnt want to do that to a young up and coming fighter, if anything it goes to GSP's and GSP's ALONE! He is a nice man who didnt want to break a newer, also young competitor. as for the sports cred, Matt Hughes didnt want to break Royce Gracies arm, did that hurt the sports credibility? 
Frank Mir DID break Tim Sylvia's arm did that hurt the sports credibility? 

If you dont go into watching every fight with the feeling that it is a violent sport where injurys WILL HAPPEN, go watch billiards.



AlphaDawg said:


> It's amazing how people will give Fitch crap for what he does but then those same people will defend GSP. It's insane.


do they bash Chael Sonnon too?


----------



## Iuanes

coldcall420 said:


> He didn't show that easily he was the better Martial Artist, how can you say he is a better Martial Artist when he was laying down for 23.5 Min's???? Part of Martial Arts is striking from your feet....


So Hardy is somehow a better martial artist because he thought he could survive 5 rounds and get lucky?

That is hope my friend. It has no place in combat. 

Martial arts is the art of war. Strategy --> tactics --> technique. The fact that GSP employed a strategy where he didn't even need to strike that much but merely show his competence, is martial arts par excellence.


----------



## joe davola

Syxx Paq said:


> OK SIR. Dan Hardy has Balls made of more metal then Duke Nukem, even in a loss like that i gained the world in respect for him. DONT say it hurts the sports cred because GSP didnt want to do that to a young up and coming fighter, if anything it goes to GSP's and GSP's ALONE! He is a nice man who didnt want to break a newer, also young competitor. as for the sports cred, Matt Hughes didnt want to break Royce Gracies arm, did that hurt the sports credibility?
> Frank Mir DID break Tim Sylvia's arm did that hurt the sports credibility?
> 
> If you dont go into watching every fight with the feeling that it is a violent sport where injurys WILL HAPPEN, go watch billiards.
> 
> 
> 
> do they bash Chael Sonnon too?


sonnens workrate is higher than gsp's and people bash him all the time


----------



## Syxx Paq

joe davola said:


> sonnens workrate is higher than gsp's and people bash him all the time


If i have to guess, GSP has the fact that once upon a time he was a knock out artist who finished fights at will to fall back upon, whereas chael sonnon is known for one thing -- getting ontop of guys and pointing it out, and thats why these sort of hypocritical things happen. personally, what have you done for me lately?


----------



## No_Mercy

I get the frustration for sure, but GSP played it smart. Had he ended the way he should have with a submission then there would be no discussions whatsoever. The keys to the fighters' game plans are usually outlined in the countdowns. Why would he train with Renzo Gracie? It all pointed towards him taking him to the ground to submit him especially cuz Hardy is a striker. Myself and a few others picked that as a likely outcome however we ALL wanted to see GSP outstrike him to show his true MMA skills. 

On another note that's what makes Anderson Silva that much more exciting or any predominate striker. This guy usually comes in and completely annihilates his opponent in the most devastating fashion. 

At the end of the day every fighter has different styles and attributes.


----------



## LOJ

Iuanes said:


> So Hardy is somehow a better martial artist because he thought he could survive 5 rounds and get lucky?
> 
> That is hope my friend. It has no place in combat.
> 
> Martial arts is the art of war. Strategy --> tactics --> technique. The fact that GSP employed a strategy where he didn't even need to strike that much but merely show his competence, is martial arts par excellence.


Exactly right man, great post.


----------



## kenkoy

*GSP didnt want to break Hardy's arm...*

if you guys really think hardy got away because "he doesnt quit" then you need to wake up. You can see it during the kimura, gsp looked at the referee and paused for about 10 secs pondering. he knew that hardy wasnt gonna tap, and he also knew he was winning so he let him go. 

he even said it on the post fight conference, he prays that him and his opponent doesnt get hurt bad and able to walk away from fight. of course he will never admit what he did.

gsp knows that breaking his arm would do nothing but harm the mma in the USA (we dont need another shinya aoiki here).

true class from gsp, he's the epitome of sportsmanship in my eyes. unlike roousimar, and that black dude that fought last week.

ps. not quitting in an armbar/kimura is just plain stupid. to quote bj penn "you wont be wiping your ass for a few months with that kimura"


----------



## Lastage

Alot of people seem to dislike fights that are more technical. True there not as flashy but I on the other hand I love it.

Hardy is a true threat standing and GSP did the smart thing and brought the fight to the ground.

He made a few mistakes on the ground but I still havent made up my mind if he let up or didnt want to force the submission. At first I thought he let up but in the replay it looked as if he forced it then let up after he seen he would need alot more torque to complete it.

Either way GSP played it real safe, and in my mind smart at the end of the day people remember the winner.

The style he had for this fight is perfect for taking out a great striker. Im just supprised GSP went for the same submissions rather then focusing a bit more on the ground and pound. Niether fighter took more then a few shots but the ground control of GSP was clearly dominant.

Hardy has great ground defence but horrible ground offence so the fight was less exciting to most.

At the end of the day the truth of the matter is GSP beat a good striker without ever being in any real danger.

To me MMA is Rock Papper Scissors, Hardy has some heavy Rocks so GSP blanketed him.


----------



## diablo5597

kenkoy said:


> if you guys really think hardy got away because "he doesnt quit" then you need to wake up. You can see it during the kimura, gsp looked at the referee and paused for about 10 secs pondering. he knew that hardy wasnt gonna tap, and he also knew he was winning so he let him go.
> 
> he even said it on the post fight conference, he prays that him and his opponent doesnt get hurt bad and able to walk away from fight. of course he will never admit what he did.
> 
> gsp knows that breaking his arm would do nothing but harm the mma in the USA (we dont need another shinya aoiki here).
> 
> true class from gsp, he's the epitome of sportsmanship in my eyes. unlike roousimar, and that black dude that fought last week.
> 
> ps. not quitting in an armbar/kimura is just plain stupid. to quote bj penn "you wont be wiping your ass for a few months with that kimura"


GSP is nothing but class but trust me, he was absolutely trying to make him tap and if he wasn't gonna tap, then he was gonna break it. He just made a technical mistake.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

Great, so according to you we have a soft champion. Don't see how you're defending GSP here.


----------



## Nefilim777

I've been on the recieving end of Kimura's before, and trust me, when you crank the arm like he did, it seriously hurts and aint it far from doing some serious damage. GSP woulda broke it, he was just in a weird position.


----------



## Soojooko

Look. A video with George and his trainers directly after the fight. GSP wanted to know why Hardy wasn't tapping and his trainers were setting him straight. GSP was trying to finish the fight and any suggestion he "let go" sounds pretty stupid to me. He's the WW champion of the world damn it. You don't get there by letting fighters off. Ridiculous.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

He wasn't tapping because GSP didn't execute it properly.


----------



## kenkoy

diablo5597 said:


> GSP is nothing but class but trust me, he was absolutely trying to make him tap and if he wasn't gonna tap, then he was gonna break it. He just made a technical mistake.


that wasnt a technical mistake, he could've easily snapped that arm with his position, he's won by kimura before, he knows what to do. all this technical mistake he says is just a front.

just look at his eyes during the kimura, it's the eyes of somebody that thinks like a human in the cage (unlike adrenaline faucet like palhares).

i wouldnt call it soft, just being human. it's the same thing when nate marquard held that second punch against maia when he dropped him.. it's just knowing when to hold back.

to be honest i would've done the same thing, and i was yelling at the tv "LET HIM GO". there's no need to break the kid's arm when you know you're dominating him.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

What a soft, ***** champion then.


----------



## diablo5597

kenkoy said:


> that wasnt a technical mistake, he could've easily snapped that arm with his position, he's won by kimura before, he knows what to do. all this technical mistake he says is just a front.
> 
> just look at his eyes during the kimura, it's the eyes of somebody that thinks like a human in the cage (unlike adrenaline faucet like palhares).
> 
> i wouldnt call it soft, just being human. it's the same thing when nate marquard held that second punch against maia when he dropped him.. it's just knowing when to hold back.
> 
> to be honest i would've done the same thing, and i was yelling at the tv "LET HIM GO". there's no need to break the kid's arm when you know you're dominating him.


I see what your saying. You're just very wrong.


----------



## mmaswe82

LOJ said:


> What I don't understand is simply this..
> 
> Dan Hardy is in a pro - championship mixed martial arts fight, (the biggest fight of his entire life; no doubt) - with someone who we all know is great at wrestling; and great at having complete control on the ground.
> 
> He makes little, to no attempts at stopping the champion from taking him down and controlling him. The two very things that he should have trained (and learned), and the very things the champion is sooo + good at.
> 
> Yet he makes up for it in not tapping. Great game-plan Dan. Make no attempt at winning the fight, just make sure you don't tap out cause you will be a quitter and a loser then. But it's fine to be a loser and be dominated for 25 minutes cause after all you never quit; and that was the object of the fight to begin with.
> 
> I'm proud of him for not giving in, but disappointed that he didn't want the win as bad as GSP wanted it. This was everything to Dan Hardy, and when he got in there he didn't want it bad enough to go for it.


this...all your posts have been intelligent in this thread, have to give you a +rep for expressing an opinion i can relate to, but i am way to lazy to write down.


----------



## Soojooko

kenkoy said:


> that wasnt a technical mistake, he could've easily snapped that arm with his position, he's won by kimura before, he knows what to do. all this technical mistake he says is just a front.
> 
> just look at his eyes during the kimura, it's the eyes of somebody that thinks like a human in the cage (unlike adrenaline faucet like palhares).
> 
> i wouldnt call it soft, just being human. it's the same thing when nate marquard held that second punch against maia when he dropped him.. it's just knowing when to hold back.
> 
> to be honest i would've done the same thing, and i was yelling at the tv "LET HIM GO". there's no need to break the kid's arm when you know you're dominating him.


Did you see the vid I posted? Are you suggesting that they set up that whole scene to dupe the public into believing that GSP wanted to kill Hardy instead of letting him go? Seriously? So, GSP finishes the fight and whispers to the camera man, "I'm going to pretend I didnt know why Hardy wasnt tapping... can you film it so we can fool the public?... I dont want them to know I'm a softy"

huge lol.


----------



## stadw0n

kenkoy said:


> that wasnt a technical mistake, he could've easily snapped that arm with his position, he's won by kimura before, he knows what to do. all this technical mistake he says is just a front.
> 
> just look at his eyes during the kimura, it's the eyes of somebody that thinks like a human in the cage (unlike adrenaline faucet like palhares).
> 
> i wouldnt call it soft, just being human. it's the same thing when nate marquard held that second punch against maia when he dropped him.. it's just knowing when to hold back.
> 
> to be honest i would've done the same thing, and i was yelling at the tv "LET HIM GO". there's no need to break the kid's arm when you know you're dominating him.


LOL get real, who cares if he was dominating the fight, for all you know the next round hardy could of landed a lucky shot and knocked GSP out, you dont risk fights lasting any longer and if you have a chance to win by a sub or ko


----------



## No_Mercy

I'm with the poster. I've been saying this. He was in the wrong position for the arm bar so he was able to escape. As for the Kimura Hardy was trapped with his other arm pinned by GSP's knee. He was grimacing...at that point whether the technique is wrong it was about 75% correct enough to coax a tap from most fighters cuz they don't want to risk getting any potential injury. "IF" GSP truly wanted to end it he could have used his entire might and with *one clean jerk and snapped it.* If you take BJJ you know the submission doesn't always have to be 100%. You can force it to an extent although it's considered poor technique. In otherwords if executed properly he would not have needed to expend so much strength. Who's to say Hardy would not have tapped as well at that point. 

GSP has him in a complete state of mercy. Hardy was helpless. He could continue torquing it, go all the way with 100% resulting in some form of injury, or let it go and continue dominating him on the ground. 

Matt Hughes let Royce go out of the arm bar even though that was secured tightly.


----------



## kenkoy

Soojooko said:


> Did you see the vid I posted? Are you suggesting that they set up that whole scene to dupe the public into believing that GSP wanted to kill Hardy instead of letting him go? Seriously? So, GSP finishes the fight and whispers to the camera man, "I'm going to pretend I didnt know why Hardy wasnt tapping... can you film it so we can fool the public?... I dont want them to know I'm a softy"
> 
> huge lol.


i saw the video, i think the armbar fault is legit. but the kimura he could've just asked that at the same time.

i just dont buy that kimura part. you don't have to agree with me. i'm entitled to my own opinion. i just want to share my thought with you guys so you can see a different point of view.

what convinced me the most about this is his comment about safety of fighters on post-fight conference.


----------



## Soojooko

kenkoy said:


> i saw the video, i think the armbar fault is legit. but the kimura he could've just asked that at the same time.
> 
> i just dont buy that kimura part. you don't have to agree with me. i'm entitled to my own opinion. i just want to share my thought with you guys so you can see a different point of view.
> 
> what convinced me the most about this is his comment about safety of fighters on post-fight conference.


Fair enough. Respect your opinions friend.

Personally, I'm keen to see both their next fights. Hardy, so we can see if he's evolved from this experience and GSP, because I'm not sure any other fighter would have faired any better against him on Saturday.


----------



## Nefilim777

No_Mercy said:


> I'm with the poster. I've been saying this. He was in the wrong position for the arm bar so he was able to escape. As for the Kimura Hardy was trapped with his other arm pinned by GSP's knee. He was grimacing...at that point whether the technique is wrong it was about 75% correct enough to coax a tap from most fighters cuz they don't want to risk getting any potential injury. "IF" GSP truly wanted to end it he could have used his entire might and with *one clean jerk and snapped it.* If you take BJJ you know the submission doesn't always have to be 100%. You can force it to an extent although it's considered poor technique. In otherwords if executed properly he would not have needed to expend so much strength. Who's to say Hardy would not have tapped as well at that point.
> 
> GSP has him in a complete state of mercy. Hardy was helpless. He could continue torquing it, go all the way with 100% resulting in some form of injury, or let it go and continue dominating him on the ground.
> 
> Matt Hughes let Royce go out of the arm bar even though that was secured tightly.


Yeah but if he was so sure about it then why post a video afterward's where he's asking his trainers to show him what he did wrong?!


----------



## limba

coldcall420 said:


> Part of Martial Arts is striking from your feet....


True. But i didn't see any striking from Hardy, wich was suposed to be his biggest strength. I think he only tried to survive and, to his credit, he did that realy well.
Don't you think Hardy should have done more? He didn't do anything. ZERO.
It takes two for an exciting fight.
How do you rate GSP-Hardy against Marquardt-Sonnen, for example. As i remember, the crowd kinda liked it, so did Dana and a lot of people. Was that more exciting?


----------



## Machida Karate

All i have to say is, GSP would NEVER hold back on a SUB, because he is afraid of breaking ANYTHING....

Why is this even a conversation....

He is a Champion and thats just part of the sport... U Seriously think he would Attempt not 1 but 2! Subs and not be willing to go all the way with them???? U crazy!?


----------



## No_Mercy

Nefilim777 said:


> Yeah but if he was so sure about it then why post a video afterward's where he's asking his trainers to show him what he did wrong?!


Point is was done slightly wrong. If done correctly he would have probably coaxed a tap a lot earlier half way through, but who's to say Hardy wouldn't have tapped anyways. Being in a similar position and putting someone like that in training I've seen it before. Some submissions you can get away with it even if it's 50% correct but it would be done by brute force. Not pretty, but it'll get the job done. Seeing that it was done incorrectly he could have continued tweaking with it which we all saw Hardy was in pain, or just torque it all the way even though the technique was slightly wrong. No matter how you look at it...his arm was bending backwards. How much more can it go? I'm sure it crossed his mind and he figured to let it go. 

So the two question is did GSP ever think about torquing it 110% and if Hardy really was in that position would he have tapped. Who knows...

From what I know only Renzo let Sakuraba break it and Royce was going to let Matt as well Tim Sylvia was naive and tried to slam Frank.


----------



## Syxx Paq

Lastage said:


> Alot of people seem to dislike fights that are more technical. True there not as flashy but I on the other hand I love it.
> 
> Hardy is a true threat standing and GSP did the smart thing and brought the fight to the ground.
> 
> He made a few mistakes on the ground but I still havent made up my mind if he let up or didnt want to force the submission. At first I thought he let up but in the replay it looked as if he forced it then let up after he seen he would need alot more torque to complete it.
> 
> Either way GSP played it real safe, and in my mind smart at the end of the day people remember the winner.
> 
> The style he had for this fight is perfect for taking out a great striker. Im just supprised GSP went for the same submissions rather then focusing a bit more on the ground and pound. Niether fighter took more then a few shots but the ground control of GSP was clearly dominant.
> 
> Hardy has great ground defence but horrible ground offence so the fight was less exciting to most.
> 
> At the end of the day the truth of the matter is GSP beat a good striker without ever being in any real danger.
> 
> To me MMA is Rock Papper Scissors, Hardy has some heavy Rocks so GSP blanketed him.


while i completely agree with what you say, cuz its what i and others have said, i must say we will remember the winner for winning. I think this is a fight like why the announcers talk of buentello, even in defeat he had balls to sit in arm locks and try to escape where your average man would have tapped. Im not saying Hardy will end up like buentello, because i think hes smart enough to find a place to train where he can really improve his ground game so he would stand a chance in the rematch.


----------



## Brutus

GSP is a ***** man, hes great at what he does but he doesnt have the balls to pull the trigger. Look at Pallhares he went for the kill in 0.1 sec.


----------



## Nefilim777

No_Mercy said:


> Point is was done slightly wrong. If done correctly he would have probably coaxed a tap a lot earlier half way through, but who's to say Hardy wouldn't have tapped anyways. Being in a similar position and putting someone like that in training I've seen it before. Some submissions you can get away with it even if it's 50% correct but it would be done by brute force. Not pretty, but it'll get the job done. Seeing that it was done incorrectly he could have continued tweaking with it which we all saw Hardy was in pain, or just torque it all the way even though the technique was slightly wrong. No matter how you look at it...his arm was bending backwards. How much more can it go? I'm sure it crossed his mind and he figured to let it go.
> 
> So the two question is did GSP ever think about torquing it 110% and if Hardy really was in that position would he have tapped. Who knows...
> 
> From what I know only Renzo let Sakuraba break it and Royce was going to let Matt as well Tim Sylvia was naive and tried to slam Frank.


I dunno man, I've been in a Kimura before, and when he really wrenched his arm back I thought Hardy would tap. I don't think GSP thought 'I don't wanna break his arm', I think he thought 'Shit, I'm doing it wrong, lets change position and get more leverage'.


----------



## limba

TheNinja said:


> First off the fight sucked. Why because only Dan Hardy came to Fight. Gsp came to win.


WHAT?
If that's the case, Why didn't Hardy FIGHT?!?!
I don't think he wanted to fight: zero aggressiveness, zero combinations...no nothing. For me, it seemed like he came in to survive and try to avoid beeing stopped. 
Put yourself in his position: here you are. fighting for the belt. Almost everyone thinks you don't deserve this shot at the title, but still you get the shot. Wouldn't you wanna prove them wrong?? What did Hardy had to lose??? NOTHING. If what you're saying it's true, he should have been more aggressive, more active. He said it himself: his strategy was to stand and catch GSP with one of his punches. WOW!!! Knowing this, how can you say: "Hardy came in to fight".
Is GSP to blame for not beeing patient enough to wait for Hardy's KO punch. At the beggining of the 1st round he was in the middle of the ring, waiting for Hardy...and what did Hardy do...NOTHING.
In a way it was like Anderson Silva - Thales Leites.

ON topic: I don't think it was an exhibition fight. I think GSP wanted to finnish the fight, but he made some technical mistakes on his subs attempts, especially on the armbar. As i sw it on the replay, he allowed Hardy to use his left arm to push GSP's right leg off of him and get loose. GSP should have had his legs closer, wrapped up tight against each other. I don't know why he didn't...
If i'm wrong...correct me. I can take bad critics.


----------



## looney liam

LOJ said:


> They're bashing GSP simply because at least 50% of the forum have never trained or fought at a competitive level and don't understand what it's like to face someone that is known for their KO power.
> 
> It would be a dumb move for GSP to strike with Hardy. I believe GSP is the better striker, but Hardy has the power in his hands to end anyone's night at welter weight.
> 
> Why would you stand with someone that you know you can dominate on the ground, it makes no sense.


if GSP was truely the better striker he would have shown it on the night. he struck with alves who had way better striking credentials than hardy. hardy has power sure, but he isn't really known as a KO wizard. in his whole career he's had 2 one punch KOs, both against WAY lesser strikers than GSP. if Hardy had rocked GSP at any point in the fight i'm pretty sure GSP could have recovered and won.

GSP wants to best the best ever, well sorry for him but he hasn't got the heart. to be the best ever you can't be afraid of anything. when fedor fought arlovski and rogers, was he afraid of their KO power? hell no! he KO'd them instead. GSP tapped to hughes before the arm bar was even fully locked, and even tapped to serra from strikes, do you think fedor or silva would tap to strikes? hell no! GSP could have been offered to fight the champion in the next weight class but is too scared to move up. was Penn scared? hell no, he insisted on it!

GSP is a great fighter, but he will never be the best until he stops being greg jackson's puppet and just goes balls to the wall. back in the day before he was champion he was a beast, he had drive and determination, well now he's lost it all, he's the best ww in the world and he's scared.


----------



## Soojooko

Nefilim777 said:


> I don't think GSP thought 'I don't wanna break his arm', I think he thought 'Shit, I'm doing it wrong, lets change position and get more leverage'.


What you said there is so obviously the truth. How can anybody seriously think GSP wasn't trying really hard to break Hardys arm.

Look at his face damn it:-










Does that look like GSP not trying to take Dans arm home?


----------



## SM33

Whether he had the kimura slightly wrong or not, he could have pushed it further - but he didn't, and the only reason I can think of for that is he didn't want to hurt the guy, and was confident enough he could let it go and still win.

Breaking a limb is a long lay-off and unless you're a complete twat, you wouldn't do it to someone you're completely schooling.

And I'm not sure, but I think he did change position a bit and try to make him tap again?


----------



## Lastage

Syxx Paq said:


> while i completely agree with what you say, cuz its what i and others have said, i must say we will remember the winner for winning. I think this is a fight like why the announcers talk of buentello, even in defeat he had balls to sit in arm locks and try to escape where your average man would have tapped. Im not saying Hardy will end up like buentello, because i think hes smart enough to find a place to train where he can really improve his ground game so he would stand a chance in the rematch.



Im kinda interested to see how Hardy bounces back after this one. Im personally think he will learn well from this. I think he now unstands that striking alone cant carry him to the championship.


----------



## Soojooko

SM33 said:


> Whether he had the kimura slightly wrong or not, he could have pushed it further - but he didn't, and the only reason I can think of for that is he didn't want to hurt the guy, and was confident enough he could let it go and still win.
> 
> Breaking a limb is a long lay-off and unless you're a complete twat, you wouldn't do it to someone you're completely schooling.
> 
> And I'm not sure, but I think he did change position a bit and try to make him tap again?


Dude. Look at the pic I posted. You dont look like your head is going to explode without pushing very very hard.


----------



## Nefilim777

Soojooko said:


> What you said there is so obviously the truth. How can anybody seriously think GSP wasn't trying really hard to break Hardys arm.
> 
> Look at his face damn it:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does that look like GSP not trying to take Dans arm home?


Exactly man, he's in an awkward position. His right arm is fully extended and his shoulder is pushing into Hardy's stomach, which isn't offering him any more leverage to tweak. He should have tried to transition to full mount or even crucifix and worked it from there. Any one have a picture of the arm bar?


----------



## Machida Karate

SM33 said:


> Whether he had the kimura slightly wrong or not, he could have pushed it further - but he didn't, and the only reason I can think of for that is he didn't want to hurt the guy, and was confident enough he could let it go and still win.
> 
> Breaking a limb is a long lay-off and unless you're a complete twat, you wouldn't do it to someone you're completely schooling.
> 
> And I'm not sure, but I think he did change position a bit and try to make him tap again?



Yeah GSP goes for the Submission not once but twice, AND then after apologizes for not finishing the fight....

GSP was on top of him THE WHOLE FIGHT, why would he not fully commit to the Sub JUST to apologize for not finishing....

And his ONLY attempts to finishing the fight were his SUBS....

And to your (guessing logic) he didn't want to finish the fight?.... Or "Hurt" him... Or didnt want to give him a big lay off???

All i have to say to that is.... HAHAHAHAHA!!!


----------



## limba

looney liam said:


> if Hardy had rocked GSP at any point in the fight i'm pretty sure GSP could have recovered and won.
> 
> when fedor fought arlovski and rogers, was he afraid of their KO power? hell no! he KO'd them instead.
> do you think fedor or silva would tap to strikes? hell no! GSP could have been offered to fight the champion in the next weight class but is too scared to move up. was Penn scared? hell no, he insisted on it!


WOW. I am amazed of how sure you can be on a lot of things !!!
How can you say Fedor wasn't scared of Rogers's KO power. Did he tell you that? If that's true, why did Fedor take it to the ground at one point??
How are you convinced Fedor or Silva would not tap to strikes?? Have they told you that?? And pls don't give me the Travis Lutter fight as an argument...those weren't strikes. Lutter can't punch, even when he's mounted. And if i remember, Anderson fought Ryo Chonan and got caught in that sick Flying Scissor Heel Hook. Silva tapped pretty fast also (like GSP against Hughes maybe??!!)
Penn was not scared to move up and fight GSP. You're right. But he quit. Why didn't he continue the fight?
As for GSP - Silva...i think that subject should be closed. Silva is a legit LHW, not just the MW champ.


----------



## Syxx Paq

Lastage said:


> Im kinda interested to see how Hardy bounces back after this one. Im personally think he will learn well from this. I think he now unstands that striking alone cant carry him to the championship.


Thing Dan Hardy has shown before and continued to show, is he is determined, and i think if he continues to be, he could easily beat GSP. The man wants it, plain and simple GSP just dosent seem to anymore.

please dont flame just cuz i posted an opinion about a man who showed me his determination even in another gsp wrestling match


----------



## Soojooko

Nefilim777 said:


> Exactly man, he's in an awkward position. His right arm is fully extended and his shoulder is pushing into Hardy's stomach, which isn't offering him any more leverage to tweak. He should have tried to transition to full mount or even crucifix and worked it from there. Any one have a picture of the arm bar?


This is the best one I have:










GSP is like, "Give me your fecking arm Hardy you c*nt"


----------



## Lastage

Playing it safe is smarter then taking chances IMO. If GSP can avoid hits then he can lengthen his career have more fights more $ more of a legacy (so long as he wins ugly or not). They say a fighter has a puch card, each time they get knocked out each subsequent knockout comes easier.
Personally I think GSP's intention weas to show everyone how to defeat a good stricker without taking alot of damage. Unfortunatlly for GSP Hardy has decent ground deffence (lacked takedown def tho). GSP did some good things that got overlooked by sum. He kept a dangerous striker on his back for 5 rounds while he tried many subbs at the same time negating Hardys main strength. Personally I think a little more GnP would have got the job done.

Until someone can stop GSP from taking fighters down and wearing them down why stop?



Syxx Paq said:


> Thing Dan Hardy has shown before and continued to show, is he is determined, and i think if he continues to be, he could easily beat GSP. The man wants it, plain and simple GSP just dosent seem to anymore.
> 
> please dont flame just cuz i posted an opinion about a man who showed me his determination even in another gsp wrestling match



Kinda like what GSP said to Hardy after the fight, something like "Hardy did better then my first attempt at my title shot againt Hughes."
I think we will see much more of Hardy in the years to come.


----------



## Machida Karate

Soojooko said:


> This is the best one I have:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GSP is like, "Give me your fecking arm Hardy you c*nt"



OMG how did that F'er not tap from that!


----------



## Nefilim777

Soojooko said:


> This is the best one I have:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GSP is like, "Give me your fecking arm Hardy you c*nt"


Shit man, I have no idea how Hardy didn't tap on that. Looks textbook, thumbs up, hips raised, everything.


----------



## Hiro

*GSP's armbar*

Why was Hardy able to get out of it? It looked like he pushed GSP's leg up and was able to escape as a result. 

If GSP locked his feet together would that have stopped Hardy escaping?


----------



## The Dark Knight

alizio said:


> of course entitled to your opinion. im just giving mine aswell.
> 
> IMO GSP let go of that one Kimura. He knew Dan had literally no chance of beating him and didnt want to truely hurt him.
> 
> Dan didnt make me proud, i hoped he would have. i rather see him go down swinging then just go down.
> 
> GSP didnt even have to mix it up. He easily got takedowns with no setups. Dan was just waiting to get taken down again, ppl saw all kinds of heart, i saw a kid scared and in complete survival mode not trying to win a fight.
> 
> heart is trying to win when you think you cant. not trying to survive. JMO. i rather be KOd trying to win then just survive and amount no offense at all.



If what you say is true, and if Dan Hardy really was as scared and accepted defeat, then why didn't he just allow GSP to submit him those times or even just purposely give up his arm so the fight could end?


----------



## looney liam

limba said:


> WOW. I am amazed of how sure you can be on a lot of things !!!
> How can you say Fedor wasn't scared of Rogers's KO power. Did he tell you that? If that's true, why did Fedor take it to the ground at one point??
> How are you convinced Fedor or Silva would not tap to strikes?? Have they told you that?? And pls don't give me the Travis Lutter fight as an argument...those weren't strikes. Lutter can't punch, even when he's mounted. And if i remember, Anderson fought Ryo Chonan and got caught in that sick Flying Scissor Heel Hook. Silva tapped pretty fast also (like GSP against Hughes maybe??!!)
> Penn was not scared to move up and fight GSP. You're right. But he quit. Why didn't he continue the fight?
> As for GSP - Silva...i think that subject should be closed. Silva is a legit LHW, not just the MW champ.




fedor stood and traded with a hard hitting brett rogers. he was obviously well aware of the KO threat from rogers, but he was not scared. yes he took the fight to the ground.. as do most grapplers but he at least attempted to strike first, and even won it with striking. GSP on the other hand didn't even see what Hardy had to offer, he instantly took the fight to the ground round after round. GSP probably would have won in the striking, but he was obviously too scared, that loss to serra has broken him. it's on the back of his mind every minute of every day.

silva tapped because the heel hook is one of the most painful submission holds out there, just ask drwal, and his leg was recovering from an injury going into the fight.

silva is only a legit LHW when he bulks up to the weight class. when he's fighting at MW he's a legit MW. GSP would be a legit MW too if he actually moved up. he is a huge WW, probably the biggest in terms of muscle mass the reason he makes the cut is because his diet is perfect and he doesn't have an ounce of fat on him.


----------



## SM33

> Dude. Look at the pic I posted. You dont look like your head is going to explode without pushing very very hard.


Point taken nice pic, guess he couldn't push it further.



> Yeah GSP goes for the Submission not once but twice, AND then after apologizes for not finishing the fight....
> 
> GSP was on top of him THE WHOLE FIGHT, why would he not fully commit to the Sub JUST to apologize for not finishing....
> 
> And his ONLY attempts to finishing the fight were his SUBS....
> 
> And to your (guessing logic) he didn't want to finish the fight?.... Or "Hurt" him... Or didnt want to give him a big lay off???
> 
> All i have to say to that is.... HAHAHAHAHA!!!


You finished? Givin me ear ache and I can't even hear you.


----------



## arkanoydz

thrshr01 said:


> I think Dan deserves the credit he has been given. Those subs were deep and very evident on his face and the way is arm was torqued. he showed great heart by not giving up but also a bit dumb to where it would have possibly ended his career. All in all, I hope he learns from this and improves his over all game. Skill you can teach but heart you can't and that's something he displayed last night.


I still think Hardy knew the submissions were not being executed correctly. He was in pain, obviously, but I think he could feel there was something 'not entirely correct' with the way GSP was executing so he kept in there.

I think Fitch and even Kos did better than Hardy (and I was rooting for the underdog in this fight all along).


----------



## Indestructibl3

diablo5597 said:


> GSP is nothing but class but trust me, he was absolutely trying to make him tap and if he wasn't gonna tap, then he was gonna break it. He just made a technical mistake.


This ^^^ +repped

For god sake's guys - GSP WANTED TO FINISH THAT FIGHT, BELIEVE IT.


----------



## No_Mercy

Nefilim777 said:


> Exactly man, he's in an awkward position. His right arm is fully extended and his shoulder is pushing into Hardy's stomach, which isn't offering him any more leverage to tweak. He should have tried to transition to full mount or even crucifix and worked it from there. Any one have a picture of the arm bar?


K...this is coming from someone who trains in BJJ. I am NO expert, but been in that position and done it. At that point yes he's struggling, but the only way is to do one strong jerky motion to fully committ and break it even though his leverage is slightly wrong. What I am saying is he's pushing against Hardy's resistance. One heave ho with his ENTIRE MIGHT in ONE MOTION and you don't think he would have taken it off. It's GSP's both arms and entire weight vs Hardy's one arm. Had he done it correctly he should not have needed that much force. 

Best thing to do is to send this to a BJJ expert or any of your instructors and ask em if was possible for GSP to truly snap it even though his leverage and technique was a bit off based on that image and the fight if they watched it. 

Fast forward to 3:19, then watch closely at 3:29 where he jerks his arm almost fully backwards. GSP looked up and just let it go. If GSP wanted to he could have continued cranking and rip it off. He didn't case closed. Even listen to Joe Rogan he mentions how GSP can bide his time and just "yank it again." 

http://mmaworldnewsandinfo.blogspot.com/2010/03/gsp-hardy.html (click on the second video clip.)

You guys can honestly tell me that he "couldn't have broken it there?" One big jerky motion and his arm is gone whether or not his technique is 100% or not. It was about 75% correct. His weight should have been on Hardy's chest so he couldn't have moved at all then it would have been over quicker. 

Interestingly enough there's a lot of debate about this on other forums. I don't think anybody is clearly wrong or right. It's just an observation and opinion.


----------



## G_Land

I saw how GSP was torqing on Hardy's arm. If he was'nt trying to snap that thing at one time I'm not sitting here right now. He even bounced it a couple times. I cant say that I'm mad at the out come ..it is what it is


----------



## No_Mercy

His arm did bounce and that was with about 80% strength and that's when GSP looked up and said wtf. The only way was to just go all the way. At that point it was more of Hardy's grittiness and tenacity I think rather than GSP not having it done correctly. A good example is Cheick Kongo vs Frank. He didn't tap right? Guess what he got put to sleep. In an arm bar or key lock situation there's only one route. 

I'm willing to bet had he yanked it more and went 110% with bad intentions...I think he could have. He only yanked it hard once when Hardy didn't tap AFTER 10 seconds. Then he let it go...I truly think he was calculating in his mind what his options were at that point. He could have stayed there all night long especially with Hardy's right arm trapped. What else are you supposed to do if your opponent doesn't tap...

Props to Hardy, but he's lucky it wasn't Rousimar or Frank Mir.


----------



## SM33

> K...this is coming from someone who trains in BJJ. I am NO expert, but been in that position and done it. At that point yes he's struggling, but the only way is to do one strong jerky motion to fully committ and break it even though his leverage is slightly wrong. What I am saying is he's pushing against Hardy's resistance. One heave ho with his ENTIRE MIGHT in ONE MOTION and you don't think he would have taken it off. It's GSP's both arms and entire weight vs Hardy's one arm. Had he done it correctly he should not have needed that much force.
> 
> Best thing to do is to send this to a BJJ expert or any of your instructors and ask em if was possible for GSP to truly snap it even though his leverage and technique was a bit off based on that image and the fight if they watched it.
> 
> Fast forward to 3:19, then watch closely at 3:29 where he jerks his arm almost fully backwards. GSP looked up and just let it go. If GSP wanted to he could have continued cranking and rip it off. He didn't case closed. Even listen to Joe Rogan he mentions how GSP can bide his time and just "yank it again."
> 
> http://mmaworldnewsandinfo.blogspot....gsp-hardy.html (click on the second video clip.)
> 
> You guys can honestly tell me that he "couldn't have broken it there?" One big jerky motion and his arm is gone whether or not his technique is 100% or not. It was about 75% correct. His weight should have been on Hardy's chest so he couldn't have moved at all then it would have been over quicker.
> 
> Interestingly enough there's a lot of debate about this on other forums. I don't think anybody is clearly wrong or right. It's just an observation and opinion.


Exactly but don't even bother, you'll just get responses like:


> All i have to say to that is.... HAHAHAHAHA!!!


----------



## G_Land

No_Mercy said:


> His arm did bounce and that was with about 80% strength and that's when GSP looked up and said wtf. The only way was to just go all the way. At that point it was more of Hardy's grittiness and tenacity I think rather than GSP not having it done correctly. A good example is Cheick Kongo vs Frank. He didn't tap right? Guess what he got put to sleep. In an arm bar or key lock situation there's only one route.
> 
> I'm willing to bet had he yanked it more and went 110% with bad intentions...I think he could have. He only yanked it when Hardy didn't tap AFTER 10 seconds.


I argree with ya and dont get me wrong arm bars suck really really bad. Especialy when your stretched out like that. But I know If GSP would have known that Hardy wouldnt tap to 80 percent he would have went with 90 right off the bat or more but I think with Hardy not tapping it threw him off enough for Hardy to roll out


----------



## No_Mercy

G_Land said:


> I argree with ya and dont get me wrong arm bars suck really really bad. Especialy when your stretched out like that. But I know If GSP would have known that Hardy wouldnt tap to 80 percent he would have went with 90 right off the bat or more but I think with Hardy not tapping it threw him off enough for Hardy to roll out


Interesting point. But if you notice he has him in that lock for a good ten seconds when he didn't tap that's when he torqued it. Then he looked up at the ref. Hardy was stuck there, and yah he was confused I agree. But I truly think from the get go or that 20+ seconds in that hold he could have said fawk this guy and crank it continuously until he tapped. He pulled it back once and that's it. Then he let go and Hardy rolled out of it.

I dunno...lolz...I've been reviewing that segment about a dozen times now analyzing it. To me it just seemed like he let it go without ever really crossing his mind about breaking his arm.


----------



## limba

looney liam said:


> fedor stood and traded with a hard hitting brett rogers. he was obviously well aware of the KO threat from rogers, but he was not scared. yes he took the fight to the ground.. as do most grapplers but he at least attempted to strike first, and even won it with striking. GSP on the other hand didn't even see what Hardy had to offer, he instantly took the fight to the ground round after round. GSP probably would have won in the striking, but he was obviously too scared, that loss to serra has broken him. it's on the back of his mind every minute of every day.
> 
> silva tapped because the heel hook is one of the most painful submission holds out there, just ask drwal, and his leg was recovering from an injury going into the fight.
> 
> silva is only a legit LHW when he bulks up to the weight class. when he's fighting at MW he's a legit MW. GSP would be a legit MW too if he actually moved up. he is a huge WW, probably the biggest in terms of muscle mass the reason he makes the cut is because his diet is perfect and he doesn't have an ounce of fat on him.


You make some good points too. I respect that. But the one thing i don't get is why Hardy was so inactive on the feet. Common.....here is your chance at the belt. Take it. He knew he was gonna get taken down at some point. But i expected him to be more aggressive and show why he is the challenger. After the first round it was clear that GSP would try and stop him on the ground. That meant Hardy had to win it on the feet, be more active, but he didn't do much about it. I think GSP taking the fight to the ground was also a show of respect for Hardy's stand-up.
The fact is...GSP is the WW champion, he has a formidable weapon on his side (his wrestling) and it's up to the challengers to figure him out.
As for the bulking up. I don't think he is one of the biggest out there. Thiago Alves or Rumble are much bigger. GSP walks at 192-194 and Andreson Silva is 220-225. So it's quite a difference.
Off topic: I just watched a preview of UFC 112. Silva clearly said he wants to keep in on the feet, because he feels he has the advantage standing. How do rate his comment? Isn't that the same story as GSP taking the fight where he feels more comfortable?? ..


----------



## Inkdot

I'm a bit torn about this issue, on one hand GSP completely dominated the fight by wrestling and won a devestating 5 round decicion. On the other hand he continouesly plays it safe refusing to step out of his comfort zone. In 5 rounds of domination he produced two situations where he came close to ending. That is not good. Infact is quite horrible, and good reason to give him critique for.

We all know GSP likes to win by using superior athleticism and wrestling and thats OK, there is plenty of guys like that who fight exciting and go for the kill as often as they can. All I want to see is GSP occasionaly popping out of his comfort zone, posturing up and laying on some Gnp or even abandoning a dominant position to got for a submission. That would make me respect him. This new Fitch style of GSP makes me not respect him, despite him winning and not only winning, but _dominating_.

But then you have to realize that its not GSPs job to be exciting, its his job to win. This is sport, not spectacle. The objective of this sport is to win by using a set of allowed maneuvers, within the rules framework of MMA. GSP is probably the best fighter in the world because of this, but he is one of the worst fighters in the world at finishing opponents, because he plays it smart, he plays it safe and stays in his comfort zone no matter what. He only goes for the kill when it is absolutely safe.

So GSP is the best fighter in the world, but noone is forcing you to cheer for the best soccer team. Maybie you prefer to watch another, more exciting team, that tries to create some offence and not just play it safe.

GSP, best at winning, bad at finishing, getting better and better at loosing fans. Including me. 

My point is, noone should blame him, but its up you each individual to choose what fighters to watch and follow. And we are allowed to voice criticicm if we feel that a fighter is not performing in a way that the fans prefer.


----------



## Lastage

Im at work and havent rewatched it yet, but from what I remember it seemed like he didnt arch his hips, it looked more like he was forcing it with his hands.

I could be totally wrong I only watched it once.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

coldcall420 said:


> Once your red rep you cant rep anyone neg or pos....:thumbsup:
> 
> He didn't show that easily he was the better Martial Artist, how can you say he is a better Martial Artist when he was laying down for 23.5 Min's???? Part of Martial Arts is striking from your feet....


Part of it is also fighting on the ground which Hardy could not do at all. GSP has already shown that he can strike, he has also shown that wrestling is his strong point and that thus far, nobody can beat him on the ground, so why would he change it up.

GSP fought a better fight. Hardy was not able to keep the fight where he could win it, so he lost. GSP is the most complete fighter in my opinion. Just because he chooses to always fight to his strengths, should not have a negative affect on how people view him as a fighter.


----------



## Syxx Paq

Inkdot said:


> I'm a bit torn about this issue, on one hand GSP completely dominated the fight by wrestling and won a devestating 5 round decicion. On the other hand he continouesly plays it safe refusing to step out of his comfort zone. In 5 rounds of domination he produced two situations where he came close to ending. That is not good. Infact is quite horrible, and good reason to give him critique for.
> 
> We all know GSP likes to win by using superior athleticism and wrestling and thats OK, there is plenty of guys like that who fight exciting and go for the kill as often as they can. All I want to see is GSP occasionaly popping out of his comfort zone, posturing up and laying on some Gnp or even abandoning a dominant position to got for a submission. That would make me respect him. This new Fitch style of GSP makes me not respect him, despite him winning and not only winning, but _dominating_.
> 
> But then you have to realize that its not GSPs job to be exciting, its his job to win. This is sport, not spectacle. The objective of this sport is to win by using a set of allowed maneuvers, within the rules framework of MMA. GSP is probably the best fighter in the world because of this, but he is one of the worst fighters in the world at finishing opponents, because he plays it smart, he plays it safe and stays in his comfort zone no matter what. He only goes for the kill when it is absolutely safe.
> 
> So GSP is the best fighter in the world, but noone is forcing you to cheer for the best soccer team. Maybie you prefer to watch another, more exciting team, that tries to create some offence and not just play it safe.
> 
> GSP, best at winning, bad at finishing, getting better and better at loosing fans. Including me.
> 
> My point is, noone should blame him, but its up you each individual to choose what fighters to watch and follow. And we are allowed to voice criticicm if we feel that a fighter is not performing in a way that the fans prefer.


soccer annalogies god i hate them cuz i dont know shit about soccer but w/e on topic, i believe thats why guys like Wanderlei Silva, Chuck Liddell, Hendo sometimes, even a Dan Hardy, Paul Daley, or Shane Carwin of today are so beloved for. They go out there, and they try to FINISH, not just win, but actually PROVE they can stop you, disable you, knock you out, choke you out.


----------



## Soojooko

*Hardy cleared for quick return despite arm contortion*

http://www.espn.co.uk/ufc/sport/story/14753.html?CMP=OTC-RSS



> Dan Hardy has been cleared to make an immediate return to the gym following his UFC 111 defeat to Georges St-Pierre, but Rousimar Palhares will not fight again until July at the earliest.
> 
> There were fears that Hardy might have to undergo a lengthy lay-off following multiple armbar and kimura attempts by St-Pierre during their five-round title bout. Hardy's arm appeared to pop at one stage during the unanimous decision defeat, yet doctors have ruled out any significant damage to the arm or shoulder joint.


This surprised me. I was waiting for some news about Hardys condition and figured he would have had some damage, but hes actually cleared to go straight back to the gym.

That's not just pain tolerance right there, that's a seriously flexible body.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Yep thats a Jiu-Jitsu body right there^^


----------



## MMA-Matt

Some people hate it but I just love the way GSP makes everyone looks like an amateur. It's time for others to step their game up not for GSP to change what he's been doing.


----------



## Nefilim777

It's all being discussed here: http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/74048-gsp-didnt-want-break-hardys-arm.html


----------



## G_Land

Well at least he can get right to it then. Maybe he can focus on having some sort of ground game now.


----------



## Soojooko

The thing is, theres been so much talk of GSP gaining muscle mass and strength. We can either read it all as: Complete hype, GSP is the same dude he was when he fought Alves... or... he has indeed improved his physicality and skills.

If the latter is the case then we don't really know how well Fitch or Alves would have done on the ground against GSP on Saturday. Two fighters with an apparently considerably better ground game than Hardy.

My point is, Hardys ground game might not be as bad as it seems. It could be that GSPs ground game is now even further ahead than it ever was and Hardy would have been shocked by it I'm sure. Untill GSP fights Fitch, Kos and Alves again, we wont really know how well Hardy did on Saturday.

GSP has evolved. We can debate whether hes boring or not till the sun explodes, but his skills are beyond criticism.


----------



## G_Land

He needs to move up period. I really think he is planning on it if you wtched the interview with Joe ...he asked GSP if he planned on moving up and he just smiled then said " All Im thinking about is fighting Dan Hardy"


----------



## Soojooko

G_Land said:


> He needs to move up period. I really think he is planning on it if you wtched the interview with Joe ...he asked GSP if he planned on moving up and he just smiled then said " All Im thinking about is fighting Dan Hardy"


Going by the post-event press conference, it sounds like hes staying at 170. I think he should stay as well. Its about standing on top of YOUR mountain and challenging the world to knock you off. If they cant, then tough... they can all lay in a crumpled heap at the bottom. If you leave your mountain for a bigger one ( sorry bout the stupid analogy, but hey ) ... then some unworthy dude will take your place. No other WW deserves to be champion yet. And whoever has the belt will know it means shit because GSP essentially gave it to them because he was bored with their puny efforts to dethrone him. It belittles the belt. The champions should stay where they are. All of them.

I hope that rambling load of rubbish made some sense.


----------



## G_Land

I guess I didnt look at it that way. And all that made sense bro.Lets hope someone will come along and step up


----------



## MMA-Matt

yeah GSP should move up, and so should BJ Penn.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Many will start going to question his success against Silva now, but for me it's still the most exciting fight the UFC could put togheter. But I believe this fight made it less likely now.. so I see George in 2 more title defenses now until they really put this fight togheter!

I hope Fitch get's another shot at him any time soon.


----------



## Drogo

Soojooko said:


> Going by the post-event press conference, it sounds like hes staying at 170. I think he should stay as well. Its about standing on top of YOUR mountain and challenging the world to knock you off. If they cant, then tough... they can all lay in a crumpled heap at the bottom. If you leave your mountain for a bigger one ( sorry bout the stupid analogy, but hey ) ... then some unworthy dude will take your place. No other WW deserves to be champion yet. And whoever has the belt will know it means shit because GSP essentially gave it to them because he was bored with their puny efforts to dethrone him. It belittles the belt. The champions should stay where they are. All of them.
> 
> I hope that rambling load of rubbish made some sense.



It makes some sense but I still want to see GSP move up (and then BJ move up after GSP is gone) to shake up the divisions. As it is right now, BJ and GSP (and Silva to a lesser extent) are unbeatable. There is little excitement for any of their fights because the outcome is predetermined (not actually, but effectively). If GSP moves up then the WW division is wide open. Fitch, Alves, Koscheck, BJ could all end up with the WW strap and I would love to see how that shakes out because I think they would all have tough fights with each other. 

If BJ is gone from LW, same thing. No one is beating BJ at LW but if he is gone there are half a dozen guys who could make a run at the title.


----------



## Drogo

GSP was trying to finish. He is a nice guy but he is also very competitive and he knows he is going to take a TON of crap if he doesn't finish Hardy (and he is getting that flak all over the place). I don't know if GSP just didn't do it right or if Hardy is just really flexible/high pain tolerance but GSP did not let him go, absolutely no chance.


----------



## G_Land

I think the problem runs with the everyday fan..."why would he just give up the title" Most people would (might) not understand and might shy away


----------



## Fieos

I think the video was for the public. GSP is at a level he should have mastered the arm bar. I don't disrespect GSP any less if he did go easy on Hardy's arm since he was in such control of the fight.

Also, if you want to completely ensure a tap/break scenario then you use a 'tuck and pry' technique. Basically the same thing GSP did but if they don't tap then you roll up just a bit and use your opposite hand to tuck their wrist under your armpit and contain it buy tightly putting your same-side hand under your opponent's elbow, pinning it. Once you roll back and raise your hips you have plenty of room to point the arm backwards.


----------



## Brydon

Hardy looked just as big if not bigger than GSP did. He said he walks round at about 205 out of training camp now which is significantly heavier than GSP (source: primetime).

At first I thought GSP at 185 would be awesome, but in reality it would probably end up in his whole mystique being dispelled by the likes of chael sonnen and other bigger, more powerful wrestlers. GSP has yet to show us any offence from his guard and has simply used his athleticism and talent to stand back up at those rare times when he ends up on his back. I hate to say it but I feel bigger guys could take him down and keep him there.

Dont get me wrong, GSP would be very competitive at MW, he would beat or have a very close fight with all the top guys. However why watch someone beat some top guys, lose to some others and not be that impressive when we can see him at his best, completly dominating guys at his natural weight.

I think an Anderson fight should happen though. Anderson has fought at welterweight before and had stated that he could quite easily moce down to welterweight again. The only reason the UFC are ruling this out is because they dont want Anderson ruling 2 or 3 divisions and destroying all their marketable champions.

I think they should fight at 180 lbs then the UFC can make an excuse for both guys if they lose, GSP is to small or Anderson is huge and he had to vut far to much. Anderson weighed in at 182 not long ago so 180 would not be a struggle.

The reality is all this stuff about people not being able to cut down in weight is kind of ridiculous. if you are willing to sacrifice muscle mass then of course you can get down it weight. The problem is most guys half kill themselves dehydrating too much and starving themselves when they should just give up a few pounds of muscle instead.

If you look at the "huge" heavyweight boxers of old, for example Joe Frazier, he fought at 196 for a large portion of his career. Humans have not evolved to be that much naturally larger since then, people have just decided to put on much more muscle mass.

I know im getting well off topic here so I shall keep it brief. All im saying is that if guys really wanted to drop down in weight and face lighter champions then they could, it doesnt have to be the other way around. Its just the promotions who dont want a bigger guy dropping down to face a smaller guy, its just not marketable and doesnt make business sense.


----------



## TraMaI

AlphaDawg said:


> It's amazing how people will give Fitch crap for what he does but then those same people will defend GSP. It's insane.


Thank you, someone else gets it now!




HellRazor said:


> Excuse me, but have you ever actually been _hit_ in the face by somebody with physical gifts and ill intent? I have, and what you call fear, I call sanity. There is NO fighter, not ONE, who's gonna take a serious shot to the face when they don't have to in order to win. That's masochism, not fighting.


I'm a fighter, yes I have, quite a lot. It's not masochism, and it's not smart to do what GSP did. There's a huge difference between getting hit in the face and reacting to it and getting hit in the face and it putting the fear of God in you. Also, it's not like GSP was getting hit in the face standing, I remember Hardy hitting him with a jab maybe once or twice. I'm talking about Hardy being on his back and hitting GSP in the face and GSP got this "OMG THAT HURT" look and buried his head in Hardy's stomach which, against someone with possibly a better BJJ game, is a seriously bad idea. The way he reacted (not the fact that he did) is what reaffirms that I think Georges is terrified to get hit post-Serra and is why he's playing it so safely. I mean, we've SEEN GSP strike and he does it VERY well, but I think he realizes now that if he stands with anyone he can get KTFO and that terrifies him. 

What I posted wasn't so much a knock on GSP as me pointing out a small ***** in his armor.


----------



## looney liam

limba said:


> You make some good points too. I respect that. But the one thing i don't get is why Hardy was so inactive on the feet. Common.....here is your chance at the belt. Take it. He knew he was gonna get taken down at some point. But i expected him to be more aggressive and show why he is the challenger. After the first round it was clear that GSP would try and stop him on the ground. That meant Hardy had to win it on the feet, be more active, but he didn't do much about it. I think GSP taking the fight to the ground was also a show of respect for Hardy's stand-up.
> The fact is...GSP is the WW champion, he has a formidable weapon on his side (his wrestling) and it's up to the challengers to figure him out.
> As for the bulking up. I don't think he is one of the biggest out there. Thiago Alves or Rumble are much bigger. GSP walks at 192-194 and Andreson Silva is 220-225. So it's quite a difference.
> Off topic: I just watched a preview of UFC 112. Silva clearly said he wants to keep in on the feet, because he feels he has the advantage standing. How do rate his comment? Isn't that the same story as GSP taking the fight where he feels more comfortable?? ..


the reason hardy wasn't more aggresive was because he's a counter striker, and expected GSP to at least trade a few strikes before attempting a takedown. plus if Hardy went in swinging how, many punches do you think he would've thrown before GSP takes his ass down? Hardy just didn't anticipate that GSP would take the fight down instantly every round. i don't think GSP has ever fought like this, he usually at least strikes for a few minutes.


please, find me a report that says silva walks around at 220lbs days before a MW bout. theres NO WAY he steps into the cage at 220lbs when he's fighting at MW. when he's not training for a fight he gets to as big as 220lbs, and during a training camp he'll drop to 200-205lbs before he cuts the water.

theres nothing wrong with a striker wanting to keep it standing. every fight starts standing.


----------



## Inkdot

Syxx Paq said:


> soccer annalogies god i hate them cuz i dont know shit about soccer but w/e on topic, i believe thats why guys like Wanderlei Silva, Chuck Liddell, Hendo sometimes, even a Dan Hardy, Paul Daley, or Shane Carwin of today are so beloved for. They go out there, and they try to FINISH, not just win, but actually PROVE they can stop you, disable you, knock you out, choke you out.


Yeah, I think 95% of all pro fighters have that attitude. Fitch probably dosent have the proper skillset to finish fights often but GSP really does, therefore I give GSP more critisicm then I give Fitch.

GSP can finish fights. He is just too, I dunno, scared or comfortable (?) to even try.

However GSPs style is perfect for winning fights and I'm a big beiliver that he shouldn't change because this is a sport and the only thing that matters is beeing effective in the end. Wheter he is a fan fav or not that is a different thing. 

The style of not going in to *fight* your opponent but simply disable him untill the time is up is a smart move, but if we don't wanna see that in the future then the ruleset of MMA needs to change. Aslong as you can win fights this way I think the rest of the fighters just needs to adapt and possibly adopt a similar style wich will make MMA much less exciting sport in the end. And the UFC will be the UDC - "The Ultimate Decision Championship"


----------



## LOJ

How Dan Hardy didn't get injured in those sub attempts is beyond me. This is really good news considering the pain he was in, I thought for sure that arm was broken/pulled out of socket.

If you can go into such a high profiled fight and not get injured, that's an a + for sure.

I want to see GSP use more of his well-roundness before he steps up to fight the bigger boys. I want to see more of the GSP who fought Serra in Montreal.


----------



## munkie

If GSP actually tried to finish those submissions, Hardy definitely wouldn't be back this quickly. Further proof that Hardy didn't escape, rather he was let go. And this whole thing about GSP moving up, won't happen and it shouldn't. If anything, he could pull an Anderson Silva and fight at both. But he shouldn't just totally give up his title because nobody can beat him. That only makes the other welterweights look like bitches and makes the next WW champion look completely illegitimate. Having the Penns, GSPs and Silvas should be good for the sport as it should make their opponents attempt to step up. We've all seen what happens to just about anybody they face. And it should make those opponents strive to be better. I like this and it's exactly how it should be. You either get better or you get beat up, that simple.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

GSP literally jerked on Hardy's arm when he was trying to tap him. Why would he have done that before "letting him out"? If he was that worried about Hardy's arm, he would not have jerked on it.


----------



## Calminian

Soojooko said:


> Did you see the vid I posted? Are you suggesting that they set up that whole scene to dupe the public into believing that GSP wanted to kill Hardy instead of letting him go? Seriously? So, GSP finishes the fight and whispers to the camera man, "I'm going to pretend I didnt know why Hardy wasnt tapping... can you film it so we can fool the public?... I dont want them to know I'm a softy"
> 
> huge lol.


:laugh: 

Man, the idea that GSP let go on purpose is right up there with moon landing conspiracies. BJJ takes time to master, and more than likely GSP hasn't mastered some of the finer points. Let's hope does. I think he will. Maybe Maia could give him a few pointers in exchange for getting a few pointers on takedowns.


----------



## G_Land

Hey every time I sink in a deep submission I just let it good its good sport.


----------



## Syxx Paq

Inkdot said:


> Yeah, I think 95% of all pro fighters have that attitude. Fitch probably dosent have the proper skillset to finish fights often but GSP really does, therefore I give GSP more critisicm then I give Fitch.
> 
> GSP can finish fights. He is just too, I dunno, scared or comfortable (?) to even try.
> 
> However GSPs style is perfect for winning fights and I'm a big beiliver that he shouldn't change because this is a sport and the only thing that matters is beeing effective in the end. Wheter he is a fan fav or not that is a different thing.
> 
> The style of not going in to *fight* your opponent but simply disable him untill the time is up is a smart move, but if we don't wanna see that in the future then the ruleset of MMA needs to change. Aslong as you can win fights this way I think the rest of the fighters just needs to adapt and possibly adopt a similar style wich will make MMA much less exciting sport in the end. And the UFC will be the UDC - "The Ultimate Decision Championship"


oh god i fear that day, yet see it happening. chael sonnon somewhere in line for middleweight title, cant finish tank abbot on the ground. Jon Fitch proffesional pointer, that fight with killa B was just sad fitch, you can outwrestle the man for days but you only pass a few times, and throw the "im hurting you, see ref im working" shots from half and full guard down. GSP once legendary karate fighter, shows up in karate gear, might as well me a singlet and headgear because even he dosent remember he can strike. now maybe getting punched by dan hardy is the welterweight carwin, and thats why gsp was so unwilling to drop bombs even from top position. Why cant these guys do what Hendo, or Carwin does, train hard like you would wrestling but with standup, and then use it. show you arent a wrestler pointing people, but actually a FIGHTER. thats what seems to bug me the most, these guys have losses, but since its so much easier to sit on someone they do that rather then learning how to not get beat like that, or in GSP's case to avoid losing at all... "i sit on him for 25 minute, i am dissapointed that i did not finish him." really george? really? its like you win a welterweight title match, i hope your a flaming **** cuz GSP is gonna sit on you for 25 minutes.


----------



## TheGrizzlyBear

Calminian said:


> :laugh:
> 
> Man, the idea that GSP let go on purpose is right up there with moon landing conspiracies. BJJ takes time to master, and more than likely GSP hasn't mastered some of the finer points.



I'm pretty sure GSP knew what he was doing... He is a Blackbelt and its not like they just hand those out to anyone...


----------



## Calminian

TheGrizzlyBear said:


> I'm pretty sure GSP knew what he was doing... He is a Blackbelt and its not like they just hand those out to anyone...


Of course, that's why he secured the holds in the first place. But Maia is also a BB, does that make them equal? Do you really think Hardy is escaping a Maia arm bar?


----------



## BlacklistShaun

The armbar was deep. I think GSP would have broke it, but I think he might have hesitated just a tad to see if he was gonna tap before he had to break it and somehow Hardy's arm popped loose.

The Kimura was a technical mistake. The "traditional" way to do a Kimura ends people up in problems sometimes because they want to come up and yank on it. Problem with that is you are bringing their back off the ground, which means you have to torque it more. I've started showing it where you actually readjust with your stomach on their face to hold their shoulders down. This way it's a much tighter shoulder lock and it keeps them pinned much better...lot less chance of a reversal.

Just my opinion on the matter.


----------



## vaj3000

Soojooko said:


> Look. A video with George and his trainers directly after the fight. GSP wanted to know why Hardy wasn't tapping and his trainers were setting him straight. GSP was trying to finish the fight and any suggestion he "let go" sounds pretty stupid to me. He's the WW champion of the world damn it. You don't get there by letting fighters off. Ridiculous.


could someone tell me what an unimpressed gregg jackson told GSP in this video, it sounded as if he told gsp 'you should have broke his arm ' or something to that effect??


----------



## Harness

I've seen some some excuses in my time, but this is just poor. Hardy has heart.


----------



## Soakked

I said it before the fight that I was worried GSP was going to end up like Tim Silvia after the AA fight and become a one trick pony and looks like I'm right. I'll probably get flamed for saying what many saw, GSP laying on Hardy taking absolutely no risks to try and finish the fight. Now he got Hardy in some nasty submission attempts, but that was the only threat of the whole fight, in which a pound for pound fighter, whom many consider top 3 overall in the world myself included, couldn't finish someone not even ranked in the top ten of his weight class.

I understand he came in with a game plan, and was able to execute that game plan, but at the same time, don't fight to win a decision, fight to finish the fight. GSP was able to do absolutely no GNP damage whatsoever. What a disapointment. He was more content not to lose, then to win, hence the Tim Silvia syndrome. Still a GSP fan but I am going to tell it as it is.


----------



## Calminian

Harness said:


> I've seen some some excuses in my time, but this is just poor. Hardy has heart.


I don't know about this heart stuff, though. According to Hardy, he's wasn't in pain (post fight Sherdog interview). Nor does he have any damage from the fight. He's been cleared. 

I think this fight shows Hardy is a good defensive grappler, that knows how to avoid damage on the ground. But i don't get the heart stuff.


----------



## dario03

looney liam said:


> theres nothing wrong with a striker wanting to keep it standing. every fight starts standing.


And theres nothing wrong with a wrestler takeing it to the ground. 

I keep seeing people saying that GSP should of stood up with Hardy, but why, what reasons are there for him to that? Why is it okay for a striker to keep it standing but its not okay for a wrestler to take it to the ground? Sure GSP has good striking but against Hardy he had the biggest advantage on the ground. Just like Anderson Silva has good BJJ but his biggest advantage is standing so thats what he does, but nobody complains about him keeping it standing.


----------



## Inkdot

dario03 said:


> And theres nothing wrong with a wrestler takeing it to the ground.
> 
> *I keep seeing people saying that GSP should of stood up with Hardy*, but why, what reasons are there for him to that? Why is it okay for a striker to keep it standing but its not okay for a wrestler to take it to the ground? Sure GSP has good striking but against Hardy he had the biggest advantage on the ground. Just like Anderson Silva has good BJJ but his biggest advantage is standing so thats what he does, but nobody complains about him keeping it standing.


I havent seen anyone say this, Ok one guy but thats it, I just wished to see some offence on the ground. Like taking some small risks to posture up and GNP or going for more submissions even if it meant a small risk of loosing position etc...

Its impossible to finish fights without taking any kind of risk. This leads to long dragged out decicion wins with very little real action and I don't like it.


----------



## G_Land

I think he postured up in the 3 round for like 20 seconds then went back down.


----------



## TraMaI

dario03 said:


> And theres nothing wrong with a wrestler takeing it to the ground.
> 
> I keep seeing people saying that GSP should of stood up with Hardy, but why, what reasons are there for him to that? Why is it okay for a striker to keep it standing but its not okay for a wrestler to take it to the ground? Sure GSP has good striking but against Hardy he had the biggest advantage on the ground. Just like Anderson Silva has good BJJ but his biggest advantage is standing so thats what he does, but nobody complains about him keeping it standing.


No one said GSP should've stood with Hardy, if he did we'd call him stupid and he'd possibly not be the WW champ. What were saying is that he didn't try to finish that fight. Georges has MONSTROUS GnP and we saw next to none of it. He knew he wasn't going to submit Hardy after what he did but he was content to stay on top and advance positions and that's it. What we're saying is GSP should work more towards finishing a fight rather than being complacent to win if he wants to be ranked #1 p4p. Controlling guys will win you fights but it won't win you respect, you can ask Fitch about that.


----------



## G_Land

Im just tired of the "Im sorries" after the fight


----------



## FrodoFraggins

TraMaI said:


> I'm talking about Hardy being on his back and hitting GSP in the face and GSP got this "OMG THAT HURT" look and buried his head in Hardy's stomach which, against someone with possibly a better BJJ game, is a seriously bad idea. The way he reacted (not the fact that he did) is what reaffirms that I think Georges is terrified to get hit post-Serra and is why he's playing it so safely. I mean, we've SEEN GSP strike and he does it VERY well, but I think he realizes now that if he stands with anyone he can get KTFO and that terrifies him.
> 
> What I posted wasn't so much a knock on GSP as me pointing out a small ***** in his armor.


I agree that GSP has not been the same fighter since his Serra loss and he definitely is afraid of being KO'd. I appreciate GSP's skills and attitude but I will always be worried about his chin.

GSP will never establish a legacy like Fedors, but I'm not asking or expecting him to. Before GSP moves up to MW he really needs to start finishing fighters in WW consistently.


----------



## TheGrizzlyBear

personally I enjoyed the fight, Sure it wasn't back and forth and GSP took him down at will but I found it very entertaining... GSP looks like he could take ANYONE down at will, it was like he knew Hardy was going to throw before Hardy knew he was going to throw, and those sub attempts where gruesome, and like Tri said earlier GSP didn't do some key things right to get the tap... but still that armbar was deep enough to hurt his chest too, one of the guys that use train with me tore his peck from an armbar in a fight, his elbow was fine but he needed surgury to fix his chest...

I don't get why everyone is all "GSP is boring now blah blah blah" GSP came into that fight to win, and guess what, I'm pretty sure every fighter goes into the cage/ring for the same reason. I know I do when I fight, and if its boring sorry but its what I needed to do to get the W, if its exciting your welcome, and props to my opponent for being tougher then I had thought, it isn't GSP's fault its a one sided match its also whoever he's fighting.

Perfect Example, Joe Lauzon vs Sam Stout a back and forth battle and overall exciting fight where Joe had a couple of chances of finishing it, and Stout escaped all of them, Joe didn't expect Stouts takedown defence to be as good as it was making it a more exciting fight, and he payed for it with a loss...




Edit: And why do people seem to think that because a fighter no matter who it is can take a championship fight to the 5th round and put a beating on his opponent for all 5 rounds needs to "consistently" finish fights... I think its way more Impressive to see someone get picked apart and their game rendered useless and just watch their morale drop halfway through the fight knowing that nothing they do is working for them.


----------



## Soakked

> And why do people seem to think that because a fighter no matter who it is can take a championship fight to the 5th round and put a beating on his opponent for all 5 rounds needs to "consistently" finish fights


I understand where you are coming from, but in no way by a long shot did he put a beating on Dan Hardy. Pitterpatter punches GNP while laying your head on a opponents chest while in his guard isn't proving anything besides proving that you can take a man down and keep him there. This isn't any thing different from Randy holding a person on a cage. Sure you are controlling an opponent, but at the same time aren't causing any damage to said opponent.


----------



## TheGrizzlyBear

Hardy should've been more prepared for that, not GSP's fault, Greg Jackson is awesome at building gameplans for his fighters, obviously if you're Hardy you know GSP isn't going to come and trade with you, so why not work your takedown defence and work getting off your back... He apparently didn't work any of that and if he did he needs to look for some new training partners that might push him better then they did... 

And I wasn't just refering to GSP/Hardy with that comment soakked I was reffering to his other fights too, look at his fight with fitch, im pretty sure fitch agrees he got a beating from gsp...


----------



## LOJ

GSP should have stopped the sub attempts after the first one. If Hardy wouldn't tap then, he wasn't going to period. After the first failed sub attempt, GSP should have ground and pounded him until Hardy failed to be contious.


----------



## Syxx Paq

TheGrizzlyBear said:


> personally I enjoyed the fight, Sure it wasn't back and forth and GSP took him down at will but I found it very entertaining... GSP looks like he could take ANYONE down at will, it was like he knew Hardy was going to throw before Hardy knew he was going to throw, and those sub attempts where gruesome, and like Tri said earlier GSP didn't do some key things right to get the tap... but still that armbar was deep enough to hurt his chest too, one of the guys that use train with me tore his peck from an armbar in a fight, his elbow was fine but he needed surgury to fix his chest...
> 
> I don't get why everyone is all "GSP is boring now blah blah blah" GSP came into that fight to win, and guess what, I'm pretty sure every fighter goes into the cage/ring for the same reason. I know I do when I fight, and if its boring sorry but its what I needed to do to get the W, if its exciting your welcome, and props to my opponent for being tougher then I had thought, it isn't GSP's fault its a one sided match its also whoever he's fighting.
> 
> Perfect Example, Joe Lauzon vs Sam Stout a back and forth battle and overall exciting fight where Joe had a couple of chances of finishing it, and Stout escaped all of them, Joe didn't expect Stouts takedown defence to be as good as it was making it a more exciting fight, and he payed for it with a loss...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: And why do people seem to think that because a fighter no matter who it is can take a championship fight to the 5th round and put a beating on his opponent for all 5 rounds needs to "consistently" finish fights... I think its way more Impressive to see someone get picked apart and their game rendered useless and just watch their morale drop halfway through the fight knowing that nothing they do is working for them.


Im sorry but what is this "Morale Drop" you speak of. Dan hardy didnt quit, he just couldnt stop the take downs, he escaped two deep arm locks and didnt tap. he got out of the mount, he even scared GSP with punches FROM THE BOTTOM. if anyones morale dropped it was GSP's after he figured theres nothing completely safe to do that will finish it. this is like a video game discussion, where it comes down to "is down backing balrog a dick move?" simple answer yes. does it win? yes, otherwise people wouldnt do it. if you dont get my example oh well. Its been said, GSP dosent want to win anymore, he dosen't even want to not lose, just not to get knocked out again. It is because of this that we have jon fitch, and SUPER jon fitch both in the welterweights.

as for randy, even he does more damage, he puts people in the clinch against the cage and dirty boxes, thats more than this. hell randy's last fight was the ultimate wrestling battle that once again was a boxing match, in which randy FINISHED his fight.


----------



## Hiro

Nefilim777 said:


> It's all being discussed here: http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/74048-gsp-didnt-want-break-hardys-arm.html


That thread consists of people arguing about whether GSP didn't want to hurt Hardy and therefore didn't finish the submissions.

What a ridiculous notion.


----------



## TraMaI

Syxx Paq said:


> Im sorry but what is this "Morale Drop" you speak of. Dan hardy didnt quit, he just couldnt stop the take downs, he escaped two deep arm locks and didnt tap. he got out of the mount, he even scared GSP with punches FROM THE BOTTOM. *if anyones morale dropped it was GSP's after he figured theres nothing completely safe to do that will finish it.* this is like a video game discussion, where it comes down to "is down backing balrog a dick move?" simple answer yes. does it win? yes, otherwise people wouldnt do it. if you dont get my example oh well. Its been said, GSP dosent want to win anymore, he dosen't even want to not lose, just not to get knocked out again. It is because of this that we have jon fitch, and SUPER jon fitch both in the welterweights.
> 
> as for randy, even he does more damage, he puts people in the clinch against the cage and dirty boxes, thats more than this. hell randy's last fight was the ultimate wrestling battle that once again was a boxing match, in which randy FINISHED his fight.


That's an excellent point, sir.


----------



## CChaos

So if they feed GSP a BJJ player with no standup, would people complain if he knocked the guy out?


----------



## kenkoy

seems like it's a 50/50 observation.

it's kinda like asking someone if the glass is half full or empty.

to me i just think gsp held back for the good of the sport and gave the young up and coming kid dan hardy a break.

/cheers


----------



## Rusko

^no what does this has to do with anything


----------



## swpthleg

TheGrizzlyBear said:


> personally I enjoyed the fight, Sure it wasn't back and forth and GSP took him down at will but I found it very entertaining... GSP looks like he could take ANYONE down at will, it was like he knew Hardy was going to throw before Hardy knew he was going to throw, and those sub attempts where gruesome, and like Tri said earlier GSP didn't do some key things right to get the tap... but still that armbar was deep enough to hurt his chest too, one of the guys that use train with me tore his peck from an armbar in a fight, his elbow was fine but he needed surgury to fix his chest...
> 
> I don't get why everyone is all "GSP is boring now blah blah blah" GSP came into that fight to win, and guess what, I'm pretty sure every fighter goes into the cage/ring for the same reason. I know I do when I fight, and if its boring sorry but its what I needed to do to get the W, if its exciting your welcome, and props to my opponent for being tougher then I had thought, it isn't GSP's fault its a one sided match its also whoever he's fighting.
> 
> Perfect Example, Joe Lauzon vs Sam Stout a back and forth battle and overall exciting fight where Joe had a couple of chances of finishing it, and Stout escaped all of them, Joe didn't expect Stouts takedown defence to be as good as it was making it a more exciting fight, and he payed for it with a loss...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: And why do people seem to think that because a fighter no matter who it is can take a championship fight to the 5th round and put a beating on his opponent for all 5 rounds needs to "consistently" finish fights... I think its way more Impressive to see someone get picked apart and their game rendered useless and just watch their morale drop halfway through the fight knowing that nothing they do is working for them.



Quoted for truth.


----------



## TraMaI

First, threads merged.


Second, my post from another thread:



> A) Georges made small but KEY technical mistakes on those two sub attempts. Yes, lesser men would've tapped, but they were what allowed Hardy to survive and get out. For one, he both 1) allowed Hardy to turn his arm in the armbar and 2) did not have his arm in the right position. When you apply an armbar, the joint is supposed to be on your groin/hip area, Hardy's upper bicep was there, not the joint. This means that the torque GSP was applying was both negated slightly by Hardy turning his arm and the soft flesh of his muscle cushioning his arm being pulled back so it relieved stress on the joint.
> 
> B) During the Kimura Georges did NOT lean forward and over Hardy's back like he should've so he could get the correct angle to run his arm more. By staying where he was, Georges allow Hardy to turn his body and move his hips with the submission, negating some of the torque on his shoulder and elbow. The other mistake he made was not placing his leg over Dan's head, which both immobilizes him to an extent and allows him to get a better angle. He also didn't move his right leg toward Dan's stomach, which would've allowed more torque but had Hardy not given up/got his shit snapped it would've lost Georges' position a lot easier, which is why he didn't do it.
> 
> 
> In short: The armbar wasn't applied right and Georges didn't crank the Kimura because he would've lost his position. Georges was being SAFE in that fight and wanted to win by submission less than he wanted to give up position and possibly lose the fight.


----------



## vandalian

*Video: GSP reflects on Hardy bout*



> http://www.sherdog.com/videos/recent/The-Day-After-GSP-Reflects-on-Title-Defense-2345
> 
> Georges St. Pierre successfully defended his welterweight title for the fourth straight time, defeating Dan Hardy by unanimous decision at UFC 111.
> 
> The dominant champion did not drop a round on any of the judges’ scorecards en route to the one-sided decision.
> 
> Sherdog.com caught up with St. Pierre the day after in Manhattan to discuss his bout and his thoughts on the future of the 170-pound division.
> 
> Check out this exclusive video interview to hear the champ’s thoughts on his potential challengers as well as why he was feeling a little better about his performance after taking a day to reflect on his fight.


St. Pierre's a sportsman . I find his honesty and thoughtfulness refreshing in a sport where many guys feel the only way to promote themselves is to brag and talk smack.


----------



## tecnotut

GSP said in the press conference:

Reporter: Did you not want to break his arm?
GSP: I TRIED TO BREAK IT - I TRIED 100%
Reporter: So you tried to break his arm?
GSP: Of course....

End of thread.


----------



## michelangelo

I watched both submission attempts again. 

It looks like Hardy legitimately escaped the armbar.

However, take a look at the kimura. GSP secured the kimura with 1:52 left in the 4th round. Hardy escapes at 1:15 remaining. In other words, *GSP controlled Hardy's arm and body for 38 seconds*, *and yet only yanked on the arm ONCE. *

The entire time, Hardy was helpless: he could not roll to relieve the pressure to his shoulder, nor was he able to pull his arm out. GSP could have done anything he wanted. *GSP chose not to injure Hardy. 
*


----------



## Rusko

http://mmaworldnewsandinfo.blogspot.com/2010/03/post-fight-interviews.html

a lil bit past half of the video

when gsp came in

he said he wanted to win and even break his arm so stop licking his ass really.

its BS taking a risk of gettin KO later and let go


----------



## HexRei

michelangelo said:


> I watched both submission attempts again.
> 
> It looks like Hardy legitimately escaped the armbar.
> 
> However, take a look at the kimura. GSP secured the kimura with 1:52 left in the 4th round. Hardy escapes at 1:15 remaining. In other words, *GSP controlled Hardy's arm and body for 38 seconds*, *and yet only yanked on the arm ONCE. *
> 
> The entire time, Hardy was helpless: he could not roll to relieve the pressure to his shoulder, nor was he able to pull his arm out. GSP could have done anything he wanted. *GSP chose not to injure Hardy.
> *


Yes, because he is a superman and never makes mistakes


----------



## Franco

This is redundant, but St Pierre is the champion and there's a reason why. If you were in his place, seriously, would you want to go balls out and risk losing your belt or would you be conservative and intelligently defend your title? He's the champion and until someone finds a way to beat him, he's going to keep his belt and do whatever it takes to continue. Also, the sport is MMA. St Pierre is an excellent athlete and is a deep MMA-ist, like it or not. Cheers!


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Rusko said:


> ^no what does this has to do with anything


People are complaining about GSP taking Hardy down the whole time. Hardy is mainly a striker so in a sense, it is the same principle to keep a fight standing against a ground fighter.


----------



## michelangelo

If anyone is interested, review the video: 

1. GSP right hand has a grasp of Hardy's left wrist. 
2. GSP's left hand is clasped onto his own right wrist.
3. GSP cranks Hardy's arm exactly once. 
4. GSP holds position, while Hardy lays helpless. 
5. *GSP left hand releases his right wrist first BEFORE Hardy escapes. *You can see GSP spread his fingers to let go. 

As I stated this was an exhibition match, not unlike Fedor vs. Aoki.


----------



## michelangelo

Review the video from round 4: GSP releases his fingers to let Hardy go from the kimura. This was an exhibition match.


----------



## KittenStrangler

How can people compare GSP and Chael together? Chael is the busiest ground and pounder i've ever seen. Guy is constantly attacking you, no breaks. GSP is nothing like that.


----------



## HexRei

CChaos said:


> So if they feed GSP a BJJ player with no standup, would people complain if he knocked the guy out?


its kinda funny cause that's exactly what happened when Silva was paired with Leites, surprise surprise, people complained that he refused to follow Leites' buttflops to the floor.

Basically any time a dominant fighter follows a strict gameplan to nullify their opponent's advantages you will get haters. And...


----------



## TRMN8R

vandalian said:


> St. Pierre's a sportsman . I find his honesty and thoughtfulness refreshing in a sport where many guys feel the only way to promote themselves is to brag and talk smack.


Well said, vandalian. I could not agree more.


----------



## G_Land

tecnotut said:


> GSP said in the press conference:
> 
> Reporter: Did you not want to break his arm?
> GSP: I TRIED TO BREAK IT - I TRIED 100%
> Reporter: So you tried to break his arm?
> GSP: Of course....
> 
> End of thread.


Snap!


----------



## michelangelo

GSP also congratulated Serra after losing to him claiming he had no excuses. Later on, GSP stated that he was going through a hard time in his life personally and therefore was not as focused as he should have been. 

GSP consoled BJ Penn after demolishing him. Later, in the locker room, in French he says: "Those motherf#ckers, they insulted all of us..."

GSP is a politician. He is two faced, but only to protect his opponents egos, and now he is trying to protect his opponents physically. 

The truth will come out over the course of the next few weeks and months.


----------



## Ryan1522

Interesting video. GSP seemed to speak very modestly and logically. Sounded like he had a clear head andwas well aware of his mistakes during the fight.

The only thing I would disagree with is when he uses the analogy of flipping a coin (a fifity-fifty chance) when referring to winning or losing if he got in a brawl.

I think it's more like 80:20 in favour of GSP if he gets in a brawl(not neccessarily winging puches, but a "fast paced throw caution to the wind-type fight"), which would be way more exciting. Ever since his loss to Serra he has started "playing it smart" and instilling strategic plans under the tutelage of Greg Jackson.

I miss the *kill or be killed GSP *who ran through the likes of Parysian, Hieron, Trigg and Sherk. 

Even though his wins since the Serra loss have been absolutely dominating, his ability to finish fights has seemed to be compromised by following such strict game plans.

Thoughts?


----------



## Iuanes

Just because you release a hold it doesn't mean its an act of mercy. Theres plenty of fighters who release holds because the hold isn't working, they want to try something else, its tiring them out, they are in risk of losing a position.

I mean, the fact that Georges said himself he was trying to break it,and the fact that there is footage of him backstage trying to figure out what he did wrong with his coaches, should easily sway any suspicions derived from a dubious interpretation of a match which few here even have the experience of relating to in such a way to garner insight.

GSP wanted to win. He wanted to make the hold more effective. Please end this thread.


----------



## michelangelo

It's not necessarily an act of mercy, but what position was Hardy in to break the hold? No position whatsoever. And GSP could not have let go of the hold to gain a better position, since he had already gained the most advantageous position possible: Hardy could not move his arm or body, and GSP was in a position to literally pull his arm out of it's socket. GSP had already yanked on it violently once as a warning to Hardy that he could inflict serious damage if he wanted.

Second of all, GSP was not exactly blowing his load cardio wise. He was literally sitting on top of Hardy resting. He looked around lazily to the ref, and then to his corner, while Hardy lay prone underneath him motionless.

GSP didn't need to let go to gain a more advantageous position. He was already in a position to pull Hardy's arm out of it's socket while expending almost no energy.

As I stated in my other thread: review the video. Ask yourselves if Hardy was in any position to escape. Ask yourself if GSP could have secured any more favorable of a position than he already had. Ask yourself if he seems to be expending an undue amount of energy.


----------



## HaVoK

To any fighter that says things such as "I was expecting more of a fight" or they wanted to stand up more or anything along those lines. If you dont like it...STOP IT! Simple as that. I grow tired of fighters blaming their opponents for their loss. Not blaming because they are better but they act as if their opponent cheated them in some way because they did not stand there and allow them to punch them in the face. Its just silly. GSP is everything a fighter should be. One more thing. Ironically when the fight was standing where Hardy "should" have had the advantage he failed to land a single strike. When it was standing GSP won that battle as well, landing more strikes...pretty much the only strikes. I like Hardy and he is entertaining and has the heart of a warrior. But he was dominated for 25mins. And although he claims different, like most of GSP's opponents he was indeed overwhelmed.


----------



## ajitator

tecnotut said:


> GSP said in the press conference:
> 
> Reporter: Did you not want to break his arm?
> GSP: I TRIED TO BREAK IT - I TRIED 100%
> Reporter: So you tried to break his arm?
> GSP: Of course....
> 
> End of thread.


him admitting it in the post fight conference would discredit the whole gesture.

he doesnt need to tell people he didnt break it, that's just gonna cause more trouble and like i said, discredit the whole thing.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Ok I have said it before, but I really don't see how he could yank Hardy's arm like that and be worried about breaking it at the same time. It literally makes no sense.


----------



## Thelegend

HexRei said:


> its kinda funny cause that's exactly what happened when Silva was paired with Leites, surprise surprise, people complained that he refused to follow Leites' buttflops to the floor.
> 
> Basically any time a dominant fighter follows a strict gameplan to nullify their opponent's advantages you will get haters. And...


difference being lietes is no longer in the ufc after that garbage fight, also note he had no takedowns and kept trying to pull guard. 
hardy had no groundgame and still survived in gsp's strongest area-lietes didn't even have the balls to try and strike or set up a takedown properly with strikes.

CChaos-if they did that at least gsp would stand but that would not be competitve. hardy should not have gotten the shot it was too early, bottom line. he survived against a much better fighter which he should not have and did it in lackluster fashion. if your gonna say gsp is pound for pound, one of the best mma fighters today is it wrong to expect him to finish off someone who does not deserve a shot?

anderson and gsp are different fighters whose strength's lie in different areas. gsp's strength is the ground game so when he gets fighters there should he not be able to finish them or at least do damage, especially those who lack the skills to offset his biggest strength. when fighters try and stand with anderson, they lose badly. when fighters get taken down by gsp they don't get subbed anymore or finished. no different from fitch yet people disrespect him because he does the same thing gsp did against hardy-control his opponent for the entire fight, attempt subs if they are there and try and do damage.


----------



## ajitator

HitOrGetHit said:


> Ok I have said it before, but I really don't see how he could yank Hardy's arm like that and be worried about breaking it at the same time. It literally makes no sense.


watch the fight, he yanked it once when he got it.. then paused for about 10 secs thinking if he should try again and break his arm.

he realized that hardy had too much pride and wasnt gonna tap after the first yank, and his only other option was to break it.

seriously, with the type of grip he had, there's no reason to let that go, even if it took him another 3 mins to get figure out the "right technique"


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Thelegend said:


> difference being lietes is no longer in the ufc after that garbage fight, also note he had no takedowns and kept trying to pull guard.
> hardy had no groundgame and still survived in gsp's strongest area-*lietes didn't even have the balls to try and strike or set up a takedown properly with strikes*.


Well it isn't like Hardy really had the balls, he just had no choice. That fight was taking place on the ground whether he liked it or not.


----------



## Thelegend

HitOrGetHit said:


> Well it isn't like Hardy really had the balls, he just had no choice. That fight was taking place on the ground whether he liked it or not.


right, that's true but people are giving props to hardy for even surviving being on his back against gsp. anderson wants to strike gsp wants to take it to the ground. their both arguably the best at that aspect of mma. if you stand with silva you will get hurt. if you get taken to the ground by gsp you will.....see the point im trying to make? got no problem with the opinions on here, but if gsp cant finish a guy that is in his world, his strength, then is he really all that different from fitch? sonnen? dare i say it maynard?....lol that last one is a joke so hold the flames...


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Thelegend said:


> right, that's true but people are giving props to hardy for even surviving being on his back against gsp. anderson wants to strike gsp wants to take it to the ground. their both arguably the best at that aspect of mma. if you stand with silva you will get hurt. if you get taken to the ground by gsp you will.....see the point im trying to make? got no problem with the opinions on here, but if gsp cant finish a guy that is in his world, his strength, then is he really all that different from fitch? sonnen? dare i say it maynard?....lol that last one is a joke so hold the flames...


He has already shown that he has better wrestling than anyone he has encountered.


----------



## Thelegend

HitOrGetHit said:


> He has already shown that he has better wrestling than anyone he has encountered.


right so has sonnen.....the point is he did not finish the fight like kenny florian would say against someone in his area of strength. its surprising so many are defending his fight against hardy and bringing up Anderson who finishes people who try and take him on in his best asset in mma. i don't care if the fighter wants to stand or take it to the ground, its the finish that matters. lately george has had trouble doing so, you could blame the level of competition before but you cant do so with hardy who he was feed the shot too early and still survived.


----------



## TraMaI

michelangelo said:


> Review the video from round 4: GSP releases his fingers to let Hardy go from the kimura. This was an exhibition match.


Holding on to a submission that isn't working will gas you out really fast. Lrn2BJJ


EDIT: Again, I don't know how to do BJJ. Read my first post in the thread... he didn't "let Hardy go," he just didn't do it right.


----------



## thrshr01

The problem with what happened on 111 was that GSP went for a planned finish but couldn't pull it. He was going for subs that's why you don't see any damage on Hardy. If GSP did his normal GNP, I'm certain that Dan wouldn't have lasted any longer than Penn did when they last fought. GSP made a mistake with his sub attempts and he's now paying for it with criticism that he doesn't finish fights even though he tried his darnest to do so. He will learn from those technical mistakes and as he's shown in the past, will come back a better, more complete fighter.


----------



## limba

looney liam said:


> *theres nothing wrong with a striker wanting to keep it standing. every fight starts standing*.


Agreed.
But there is something wrong with a wrestler wanting to take the fight to the ground ?!?!? 
Sorry, but it's ridiculous. 
It doesn't make any sense.
A striker can keep the fight where he is more comfortable, but a wrestler can't do that...
I don't get it..


----------



## limba

CChaos said:


> So if they feed GSP a BJJ player with no standup, would people complain if he knocked the guy out?


Excellent post!!!
Didn't think of this...but you make an excellent point.
Let's say he would face Hazellet and he would keep the fight standing...
I can already see "the haters": "why didn't he try to go the ground? He was definetly scared of beeing subbed...:sarcastic12:"

Again..excellent point..congratulations.:thumbsup:


----------



## tecnotut

ajitator said:


> him admitting it in the post fight conference would discredit the whole gesture.
> 
> he doesnt need to tell people he didnt break it, that's just gonna cause more trouble and like i said, discredit the whole thing.


So . . . what you're saying is this:
GSP is a liar, and you're a true mind-reader?


----------



## HexRei

KittenStrangler said:


> How can people compare GSP and Chael together? Chael is the busiest ground and pounder i've ever seen. Guy is constantly attacking you, no breaks. GSP is nothing like that.


If you take a look at Fightmetric, GSP landed 170 strikes on Hardy and Sonnen landed 204 on Marquartd, not that big a difference. Now while it's true GSP went ten minutes longer, GSP also spent a lot of time working toward and attempting subs, Sonnen attempted exactly zero subs. This actually just proves that Sonnen is even more one-dimensional than people are accusing GSP of being.


----------



## 6toes

HexRei said:


> If you take a look at Fightmetric, GSP landed 170 strikes on Hardy and Sonnen landed 204 on Marquartd, not that big a difference. Now while it's true GSP went ten minutes longer, GSP also spent a lot of time working toward and attempting subs, Sonnen attempted exactly zero subs. This actually just proves that Sonnen is even more one-dimensional than people are accusing GSP of being.


As a couple have already said, I think the main problem GSP had in this fight was that he was so intent on getting a submission that he neglected his GnP options. I think that was the gameplan and he stuck to it, perhaps a little to strictly. There were a few times where I think Georges could've definitely gotten himself a stoppage via strikes had he postured up but he never went for it. Not that it matters because in the end he got a very one-sided unanimous decision, just wasn't the most exciting fight for a lot of people. Almost seemed like Georges was hoping to make a statement with a submission win :confused02:.


----------



## towwffc

Ryan1522 said:


> *I miss the kill or be killed GSP who ran through the likes of Parysian, Hieron, Trigg and Sherk. *
> Even though his wins since the Serra loss have been absolutely dominating, his ability to finish fights has seemed to be compromised by following such strict game plans.
> 
> Thoughts?


I would think that it is much harder to finish guys like Fitch, Alves, and Hardy than it is to finish guys like Karo, Heiron, and Trigg. In fact I think the formers would also be able to finish the latters. Thiago finishing Karo a perfect example. I actually believe GSP's gameplans are what give him the best opportunity to finish his fights. I mean some of these guys like Fitch and Alves seem to be very very hard to even control let alone finish. So the gameplans that GSP used were necessary imo.


----------



## coldcall420

coldcall420 said:


> Once your red rep you cant rep anyone neg or pos....:thumbsup:
> 
> He didn't show that easily he was the better Martial Artist, how can you say he is a better Martial Artist when he was laying down for 23.5 Min's???? Part of Martial Arts is striking from your feet....





Iuanes said:


> So Hardy is somehow a better martial artist because he thought he could survive 5 rounds and get lucky?
> 
> That is hope my friend. It has no place in combat.
> 
> Martial arts is the art of war. Strategy --> tactics --> technique. The fact that GSP employed a strategy where he didn't even need to strike that much but merely show his competence, is martial arts par excellence.





LOJ said:


> Exactly right man, great post.


 
No, not at all, it just doesn't make GSP a better Martial Artist.....we didn't see Martial Arts, we saw wrestling......thats all I'm saying....:thumb02:


----------



## 6toes

I just got done theorizing in another thread about how Georges was too focused on getting a sub and neglecting the GnP. Not surprised to hear that may have been the case and I'm happy to hear him say he's sure he'll finish his opponent next time. I'm not down on Georges at all after this bout even if it wasn't the most entertaining fight of the night, and I can't wait to see him fight again :thumbsup:

Edit: Great, great video/interview by the way.


----------



## TraMaI

michelangelo said:


> I watched both submission attempts again.
> 
> It looks like Hardy legitimately escaped the armbar.
> 
> However, take a look at the kimura. GSP secured the kimura with 1:52 left in the 4th round. Hardy escapes at 1:15 remaining. In other words, *GSP controlled Hardy's arm and body for 38 seconds*, *and yet only yanked on the arm ONCE. *
> 
> The entire time, Hardy was helpless: he could not roll to relieve the pressure to his shoulder, nor was he able to pull his arm out. GSP could have done anything he wanted. *GSP chose not to injure Hardy.
> *


Yo, kiddo, did you miss my post the first time? I'm a brown belt, I know BJJ. GSP made mistakes, he let go of Hardy's arm because it was A) Futile to try and finish it because his positioning was wrong anb B) he didn't want swept or to lose his top position. Seriously, learn a bit about the art before you're making massive accusations like that because the only thing spewing out in your posts is ignorance. You can claim that GSP let him go until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.


----------



## coldcall420

HexRei said:


> Yes, because he is a superman and never makes mistakes


 
LMAO....repped....:thumbsup:


----------



## TaprooT

TS, u need to wake up dude, where u a little dreary from falling asleep during the fitch fight?? 
i jks.


----------



## KittenStrangler

HexRei said:


> If you take a look at Fightmetric, GSP landed 170 strikes on Hardy and Sonnen landed 204 on Marquartd. Now while it's true GSP went ten minutes longer.


Thank you for proving my point:thumbsup:.

I cut out all the useless stuff that had nothing to do with what I meant. I never implied GSP was one dimensional, I implied his GnP wasn't as busy.


----------



## Keanman

I don't think St. Pierre let anything go. He could have broke Hardy's arm with the arm bar, it's just that he didn't crank it 100% right off the bat. He probably hasn't had to crank that much to get somebody to tap and hesitated just long enough for Hardy find a way out which is huge props to Hardy. I'm not saying it was smart, just a credit to his ability to escape.

The kimura was a bit different. St. Pierre still didn't let it go. It looks like he cranked it 100% (including a huge jerk) and somehow Hardy didn't tap. It looks like when St. Pierre tries to catch his breath, Hardy somehow finds another exit. He's probably also beginning to think "wtf do I have to do to get this guy to tap?". Another credit to Hardy's JJ skills.

Also a huge credit to St. Pierre as his corner kept telling him to lay and pray and he kept passing over and over.


----------



## tripster

Lots of the guys here seem to know what they are talking about. I don;t think he wanted to break his arm and asking what he did wrong doesn't mean he wanted to break his arm it could just mean how come I couldn't get him to tap. The answer to that is Hardy. The guys is tough and insane. Anyway, the question I ponder is do you think he has done long-term or even permanent damage to his arms for not tapping?


----------



## joe davola

HexRei said:


> If you take a look at Fightmetric, GSP landed 170 strikes on Hardy and Sonnen landed 204 on Marquartd, not that big a difference. Now while it's true GSP went ten minutes longer, GSP also spent a lot of time working toward and attempting subs, Sonnen attempted exactly zero subs. This actually just proves that Sonnen is even more one-dimensional than people are accusing GSP of being.


you also got to take into account the guillotine nate had him in.



chael is also the better wrestler.

****waits 'til thread turns into sonnen vs gsp****


----------



## michelangelo

Thank you for calling me a youngster! I appreciate that. As far as whether he let go, we are in agreement that he did. The question is why: did he let go to protect a fellow fighter, or in order to maintain top position. Time will tell. 



TraMaI said:


> Yo, kiddo, did you miss my post the first time? I'm a brown belt, I know BJJ. GSP made mistakes, he let go of Hardy's arm because it was A) Futile to try and finish it because his positioning was wrong anb B) he didn't want swept or to lose his top position. Seriously, learn a bit about the art before you're making massive accusations like that because the only thing spewing out in your posts is ignorance. You can claim that GSP let him go until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.


----------



## TraMaI

HexRei said:


> If you take a look at Fightmetric, GSP landed 170 strikes on Hardy and Sonnen landed 204 on Marquartd, not that big a difference. Now while it's true GSP went ten minutes longer, GSP also spent a lot of time working toward and attempting subs, Sonnen attempted exactly zero subs.


Now, while both of these are true, GSP attempted 2 (3 if you count the straight arm bar he seemed to think about and then let go of immediately, I don't really as, like I said, he held on to it for a whole 2 seconds and there was no real set up) in a 5 round fight. As far as the strikes landed, thats 34 strikes per round, which is NOT many considering many of them aren't even close to being committed or power shots, they're just pitter-patter to open Dan up. Sonnen was landing HUGE shots and he landed them quite often. Sonnen's strikes per round was 68, TWICE what GSP did. Now, onto the next part!





> This actually just proves that Sonnen is even more one-dimensional than people are accusing GSP of being.


Once again, you're misunderstanding the meaning of the thread. People like Anderson and BJ are taking risks. BJ is predominantly a ground fighter, his last two opponents have done NOTHING but try and take him down and he beat the SNOT out of them standing. Anderson is primarily a striker, but he also doesn't mind fighting off his back as seen against Henderson and Lutter. GSP is a FANTASTIC stand-up fighter but seems to not want to take the risk to finish the fight rather than just grind out the win, be it on the floor OR standing. I AM NOT SAYING THAT'S BAD. What I AM saying is that A) Fitch gets a whole lot of hate for that, it's a double standard and B) GSP doesn't completely dominate fighters like Anderson and BJ do. Both Anderson and BJ dominate their opponents EVERYWHERE and on a consistent basis and look comfortable doing it. GSP is very, very dominant on the floor and almost as much standing, but he doesn't look comfortable going for the win like Anderson and BJ do. GSP doesn't commit to that submission or position the same way BJ and Anderson does. GSP won't commit to that same punch, kick or knee that Anderson and BJ both will. GSP looks content to grind out the decision while others actively look to finish their opponent, or at least damage them severely along the way (Sonnen, Fitch). 



> Thank you for calling me a youngster! I appreciate that. As far as whether he let go, we are in agreement that he did. The question is why: did he let go to protect a fellow fighter, or in order to maintain top position. Time will tell.


Sorry man, but you have to admit you were acting young. People were telling you reasons for why he let go and that he didn't let go for mercy and you were just saying the same thing over and over. But you're right, time WILL tell, but right now I'm 100% sure that's why he let go. Either way he couldn't have broken Dan's arm in the Kimura because his positioning was wrong, so that point becomes moot and he didn't break Dan's arm in the arm bar for two reasons in that the arm bar was applied wrong and Dan did a fantastic job of escaping.

What all that means (to me) is that he's going to drop in P4P rankings, in my mind he already has #4 now, might end up at #5 depending on Aldo IMO). There's a difference between him and the other P4P candidates in that he's SAFELY dominant while they're UTTERLY dominant in that they completely and totally wreck people.


----------



## coldcall420

TraMaI said:


> Once again, you're misunderstanding the meaning of the thread. People like Anderson and BJ are taking risks. BJ is predominantly a ground fighter, his last two opponents have done NOTHING but try and take him down and he beat the SNOT out of them standing. Anderson is primarily a striker, but he also doesn't mind fighting off his back as seen against Henderson and Lutter. GSP is a FANTASTIC stand-up fighter but seems to not want to take the risk to finish the fight rather than just grind out the win, be it on the floor OR standing. I AM NOT SAYING THAT'S BAD. What I AM saying is that A) Fitch gets a whole lot of hate for that, it's a double standard and B) GSP doesn't completely dominate fighters like Anderson and BJ do. Both Anderson and BJ dominate their opponents EVERYWHERE and on a consistent basis and look comfortable doing it. GSP is very, very dominant on the floor and almost as much standing, but he doesn't look comfortable going for the win like Anderson and BJ do. GSP doesn't commit to that submission or position the same way BJ and Anderson does. GSP won't commit to that same punch, kick or knee that Anderson and BJ both will. GSP looks content to grind out the decision while others actively look to finish their opponent, or at least damage them severely along the way (Sonnen, Fitch).


 
I think this is totally accurate and would add that GSP is claiming he is a Martial Artist all he did in the fight was wrestle.....I saw no Karate....and other than these now debated sub attempts that presented themselves while he was on the ground he didn't finish a guy GSP SHOULD and COULD have finished......I say that cuz GSP used to strike more than wrestle and now......well now it better safe than sorry. My only issue is if he is such a Martial Artist......part of Martial Arts is Honoring a challange....why not stand with hardy and prove to us that you are this "Marital Artist" you claim Hardy isnt......???:confused02:


----------



## michelangelo

No worries man, lol. We can agree to disagree, although we've both acknowledged he deliberately let go. 

GSP's statements right now are not irrelevant, but they are political. He's said many things before, which he either contradicted later or shortly afterwards, in order to demonstrate good sportsmanship in public. 

To be honest, I much prefer GSP's strategy of holding back a little (if that's in fact what he did) as opposed to what Palhares did, but that's a matter for a different thread. 



TraMaI said:


> Now, while both of these are true, GSP attempted 2 (3 if you count the straight arm bar he seemed to think about and then let go of immediately, I don't really as, like I said, he held on to it for a whole 2 seconds and there was no real set up) in a 5 round fight. As far as the strikes landed, thats 34 strikes per round, which is NOT many considering many of them aren't even close to being committed or power shots, they're just pitter-patter to open Dan up. Sonnen was landing HUGE shots and he landed them quite often. Sonnen's strikes per round was 68, TWICE what GSP did. Now, onto the next part!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, you're misunderstanding the meaning of the thread. People like Anderson and BJ are taking risks. BJ is predominantly a ground fighter, his last two opponents have done NOTHING but try and take him down and he beat the SNOT out of them standing. Anderson is primarily a striker, but he also doesn't mind fighting off his back as seen against Henderson and Lutter. GSP is a FANTASTIC stand-up fighter but seems to not want to take the risk to finish the fight rather than just grind out the win, be it on the floor OR standing. I AM NOT SAYING THAT'S BAD. What I AM saying is that A) Fitch gets a whole lot of hate for that, it's a double standard and B) GSP doesn't completely dominate fighters like Anderson and BJ do. Both Anderson and BJ dominate their opponents EVERYWHERE and on a consistent basis and look comfortable doing it. GSP is very, very dominant on the floor and almost as much standing, but he doesn't look comfortable going for the win like Anderson and BJ do. GSP doesn't commit to that submission or position the same way BJ and Anderson does. GSP won't commit to that same punch, kick or knee that Anderson and BJ both will. GSP looks content to grind out the decision while others actively look to finish their opponent, or at least damage them severely along the way (Sonnen, Fitch).
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry man, but you have to admit you were acting young. People were telling you reasons for why he let go and that he didn't let go for mercy and you were just saying the same thing over and over. But you're right, time WILL tell, but right now I'm 100% sure that's why he let go. Either way he couldn't have broken Dan's arm in the Kimura because his positioning was wrong, so that point becomes moot and he didn't break Dan's arm in the arm bar for two reasons in that the arm bar was applied wrong and Dan did a fantastic job of escaping.
> 
> What all that means (to me) is that he's going to drop in P4P rankings, in my mind he already has #4 now, might end up at #5 depending on Aldo IMO). There's a difference between him and the other P4P candidates in that he's SAFELY dominant while they're UTTERLY dominant in that they completely and totally wreck people.


----------



## slugfest

tripster said:


> Lots of the guys here seem to know what they are talking about. I don;t think he wanted to break his arm and asking what he did wrong doesn't mean he wanted to break his arm it could just mean how come I couldn't get him to tap. The answer to that is Hardy. The guys is tough and insane. Anyway, the question I ponder is do you think he has done long-term or even permanent damage to his arms for not tapping?


I would think there is no long term damage, but certain
it hurts like HELL right now! I am not a Jitz pro but I feel that GSP could have snapped his arm if thats what he wanted to do, he had HArdy locked in position and he had more time to angle the joint a bit better if thats what he wanted, problem is GSP would have had to break the arm for the fight to stop anyways and I don't think it's what he wanted that night.


----------



## TraMaI

I totally agree to an extent, especially when you're dominating someone as throughly as he was with Hardy, but there are other ways he could've finished him had he not just played it safe and/or made a LOAD of mistakes. He had Hardy's back like what, 9 times? And he was too high all but one of those that I can remember. That's a HUGE mistake for someone like GSP to be making and it's pretty ridiculous at that. Not to mention that someone at his level of BJJ should know that as soon as Hardy's hand goes down and he tries to backdoor him it's armbar city, yet he didn't attempt it once, He just slid off and dragged Hardy back to the floor. I was REALLY disappointed in that.


----------



## TraMaI

slugfest said:


> I would think there is no long term damage, but certain
> it hurts like HELL right now! I am not a Jitz pro but I feel that GSP could have snapped his arm if thats what he wanted to do, he had HArdy locked in position and he had more time to angle the joint a bit better if thats what he wanted, problem is GSP would have had to break the arm for the fight to stop anyways and I don't think it's what he wanted that night.


His positioning was off, he had Hardy's arm bent as far as he could without moving his body and, had GSP moved, Hardy would've rolled and escaped.


----------



## joe davola

TraMaI said:


> Now, while both of these are true, GSP attempted 2 (3 if you count the straight arm bar he seemed to think about and then let go of immediately, I don't really as, like I said, he held on to it for a whole 2 seconds and there was no real set up) in a 5 round fight. As far as the strikes landed, thats 34 strikes per round, which is NOT many considering many of them aren't even close to being committed or power shots, they're just pitter-patter to open Dan up. Sonnen was landing HUGE shots and he landed them quite often. Sonnen's strikes per round was 68, TWICE what GSP did. Now, onto the next part!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, you're misunderstanding the meaning of the thread. People like Anderson and BJ are taking risks. BJ is predominantly a ground fighter, his last two opponents have done NOTHING but try and take him down and he beat the SNOT out of them standing. Anderson is primarily a striker, but he also doesn't mind fighting off his back as seen against Henderson and Lutter. GSP is a FANTASTIC stand-up fighter but seems to not want to take the risk to finish the fight rather than just grind out the win, be it on the floor OR standing. I AM NOT SAYING THAT'S BAD. What I AM saying is that A) Fitch gets a whole lot of hate for that, it's a double standard and B) GSP doesn't completely dominate fighters like Anderson and BJ do. Both Anderson and BJ dominate their opponents EVERYWHERE and on a consistent basis and look comfortable doing it. GSP is very, very dominant on the floor and almost as much standing, but he doesn't look comfortable going for the win like Anderson and BJ do. GSP doesn't commit to that submission or position the same way BJ and Anderson does. GSP won't commit to that same punch, kick or knee that Anderson and BJ both will. GSP looks content to grind out the decision while others actively look to finish their opponent, or at least damage them severely along the way (Sonnen, Fitch).
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry man, but you have to admit you were acting young. People were telling you reasons for why he let go and that he didn't let go for mercy and you were just saying the same thing over and over. But you're right, time WILL tell, but right now I'm 100% sure that's why he let go. Either way he couldn't have broken Dan's arm in the Kimura because his positioning was wrong, so that point becomes moot and he didn't break Dan's arm in the arm bar for two reasons in that the arm bar was applied wrong and Dan did a fantastic job of escaping.
> 
> What all that means (to me) is that he's going to drop in P4P rankings, in my mind he already has #4 now, might end up at #5 depending on Aldo IMO). There's a difference between him and the other P4P candidates in that he's SAFELY dominant while they're UTTERLY dominant in that they completely and totally wreck people.


the shizznit


----------



## coldcall420

He should have stood with him some more...thats all!!!!


----------



## BrutalKO

*GSP toying with Hardy?....Hardly...*

...GSP beat Fitch, Alves, Penn twice, Hughes twice & crushed Serra the second time in very similiar fashion: Complete ownage. There was is no toying whatsoever. If you listened to Greg Jackson and watched Georges keep looking at his corner for advice, he was following the gameplan to a tee. He took no chances and controlled the fight completely. His wrestling cannot be matched. All this " GSP is boring" talk is ridiculous & way off base. GSP wants his legacy. Toying around is the last thing he would ever do. Only a complete fool would toy around with the title & a legacy at stake. It's as clear as glass when you look at his title defenses. Ever since his loss to Serra, St. Pierre has moved to a level beyond all other WW's. There is no playing around being in GSP's shoes...


----------



## No_Mercy

I've been one of the proponents in saying that GSP could have done something more regardless whether the technique was off. He could have continued cranking it and I think we all agree Hardy's muscles or ligaments would have been torn at the least. If he wasn't feeling it then why was he grimacing in pain. You can counter a kimura with an armbar OR roll out of it as Tra stated. I'm nowhere near a brown belt, but have an idea. At that point though GSP pinned his arm and Hardy was desperately trying to roll but couldn't. 

Now here's the interesting thought. *Had GSP fully secured it 100% would Hardy have tapped? *Cheick didn't tap to a guillotine and was put to sleep definitely because of pride. Royce didn't tap and Matt let it go. Renzo didn't tap to Sakuraba and he snapped it off. Tim Sylvia tried to slam Frank Mir and had his arm broken into half. Who knows...

So it's a combination of things. GSPing not securing it 100% although at 75% he could have easily coaxed a tap from most fighters especially if he continued yanking at it. The other is the fact that Hardy is tough and he was fighting for the championship belt so he didn't want to go out like that. 

In conclusion I think any MMA fighter with bad intentions would have outright yanked it from the get go and there would be no if's or buts. He only cranked it after 10 seconds. Even Joe Rogan was saying that he's gotta tap and that's coming from a Brown Belt BJJ and someone who's seen his share of fights. Within that time Hardy was rolling around in vain, squirming and eventually let go. 

I respect everyones' input, but I personally think GSP could have injured Hardy in that position at least tearing some ligaments. He pulled, tugged, made one big yank after 10 seconds, then thought about it some more looking at the ref, and figured I must be doing something wrong, or I could keep yanking it. Then he let it go. No matter how you look at it...that couldn't have been a fun position for Hardy to be in.


----------



## swpthleg

coldcall420 said:


> He should have stood with him some more...thats all!!!!


Yes, of course, but that's out of his comfort zone *sigh*


----------



## TraMaI

BrutalKO said:


> ...GSP beat Fitch, Alves, Penn twice, Hughes twice & crushed Serra the second time in very similiar fashion: Complete ownage. There was is no toying whatsoever. *If you listened to Greg Jackson and watched Georges keep looking at his corner for advice, he was following the gameplan to a tee.* He took no chances and controlled the fight completely. His wrestling cannot be matched. All this " GSP is boring" talk is ridiculous & way off base. GSP wants his legacy. Toying around is the last thing he would ever do. Only a complete fool would toy around with the title & a legacy at stake. It's as clear as glass when you look at his title defenses. Ever since his loss to Serra, St. Pierre has moved to a level beyond all other WW's. There is no playing around being in GSP's shoes...


Wrong, friendo. Jackson kept saying "Do NOT pass and just post up and pound him!" GSP continued to do the exact opposite.


----------



## Life B Ez

joe davola said:


>


Second.


----------



## AlphaDawg

coldcall420 said:


> I think this is totally accurate and would add that GSP is claiming he is a Martial Artist all he did in the fight was wrestle.....I saw no Karate....and other than these now debated sub attempts that presented themselves while he was on the ground he didn't finish a guy GSP SHOULD and COULD have finished......I say that cuz GSP used to strike more than wrestle and now......well now it better safe than sorry. My only issue is if he is such a Martial Artist......part of Martial Arts is Honoring a challange....*why not stand with hardy and prove to us that you are this "Marital Artist" you claim Hardy isnt......???:*confused02:


I laughed when GSP said that on primetime because of how ironic it was. Would have made more sense if Hardy had said that.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

GSP took the safe route. No shame in that. He will one day be known as one of the greats because of his dominance... not going toe to toe with his opponents strength... thats a stupid gameplane in anyones book.

I have no doubt GSP's striking is better than Hardy's, but why take the risk?

How many other champs have you seen go to the locker room and go over details of moves IMMEDIATELY after dominating a fight? I've never seen that before, and that gives GSP all the more credit.

It seems to me all the Hardy fans who claimed he had such a great shot at winning, are looked where else they can point the finger now. How about you just accept that Hardy is a less technical fighter?


----------



## Soojooko

PheelGoodInc said:


> It seems to me all the Hardy fans who claimed he had such a great shot at winning, are looked where else they can point the finger now. How about you just accept that Hardy is a less technical fighter?


You have this backwards Pheel. If anything, the people complaining about GSP not using his vast array of skills is GSP fans mainly. I can understand this as GSP has some of the best striking in MMA and his fans haven't seen it in all its glory for quite some time.

I didnt see anybody suggest Hardy had a great chance of winning. Hell, I gave him more chance than most and yet still only rated chances 15%!


----------



## Inkdot

coldcall420 said:


> He should have stood with him some more...thats all!!!!


No he should not have tried to stand more, thats silly to demand, seeing as he be playing Hardys game for no reason other then pride (?). He should have been more active on the ground, his comfort zone, and accually tried more then the bare minimum to finish the fight. Stop changing positions and pitter patter punches just to not get stood up, he should have tried to do some serious GNP and submissions.

GSP simply found the recipie to win all MMA fights the same way!

1) Practice explosive jumps and power lifts untill your shoot is unstoppable.

2) Constantly work to pass guard but dont ever try and use the new position for something, instead reset once timing is appropriate, this way you can fool the ref into never standing you up!!

3) Apply point 2) untill the time (25 min) is up.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Just watched the fight again yesterday.. and I must say it really was a shame to see Hardy in that fight. I mean he didn't came to fight at all! The only thing Hardy did throughout the whole 25 min was to save his life. He did not do any kind of offensive move.. wich I truly believe I have never seen in a title bout before. Of course did GSP had a harder time to finish him, cause Dan only focused 100% on his defense. He did not even throw one combination while they were standing. 

Sorry for all the Hardy fans, but this was a painful performance in my eyes! 

Hardy did not came to fight that night!!! The only thing he wanted to do, was to survive for the full time. That's the difference between the fights against Jon, Alves and BJ! If you only defend all the time, of course it is harder then to finish to fight, when your opponent doesn't even try at least a little offensive move and leaves himself a little bit open when he do so.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Keanman said:


> The kimura was a bit different. St. Pierre still didn't let it go. It looks like he cranked it 100% (including a huge jerk) and somehow Hardy didn't tap. It looks like when St. Pierre tries to catch his breath, Hardy somehow finds another exit. He's probably also beginning to think "wtf do I have to do to get this guy to tap?". Another credit to Hardy's JJ skills.


I have a question to the BJJ guys on this board! Can you really get out of a Kimura like that by your own? without your opponent letting go?? :confused02:


----------



## limba

BobbyCooper said:


> Just watched the fight again yesterday.. and I must say it really was a shame to see Hardy in that fight. I mean he didn't came to fight at all! The only thing Hardy did throughout the whole 25 min was to save his life. He did not do any kind of offensive move.. wich I truly believe I have never seen in a title bout before. Of course did GSP had a harder time to finish him, cause Dan only focused 100% on his defense. He did not even throw one combination while they were standing.
> 
> Sorry for all the Hardy fans, but this was a painful performance in my eyes!
> 
> Hardy did not came to fight that night!!! The only thing he wanted to do, was to survive for the full time. That's the difference between the fights against Jon, Alves and BJ! If you only defend all the time, of course it is harder then to finish to fight, when your opponent doesn't even try at least a little offensive move and leaves himself a little bit open when he do so.


I've rewatched the fight also.
To be clear...not even GSP was 100% happy with his performance, but Hardy didn't do much in that fight. This was his big chance. And he didn't take advantage of it. props for him, for not beeing stopped, but other than that...i still think he should have came in the fight more prepared.


----------



## Machida Karate

BobbyCooper said:


> Just watched the fight again yesterday.. and I must say it really was a shame to see Hardy in that fight. I mean he didn't came to fight at all! The only thing Hardy did throughout the whole 25 min was to save his life. He did not do any kind of offensive move.. wich I truly believe I have never seen in a title bout before. Of course did GSP had a harder time to finish him, cause Dan only focused 100% on his defense. He did not even throw one combination while they were standing.
> 
> Sorry for all the Hardy fans, but this was a painful performance in my eyes!
> 
> Hardy did not came to fight that night!!! The only thing he wanted to do, was to survive for the full time. That's the difference between the fights against Jon, Alves and BJ! If you only defend all the time, of course it is harder then to finish to fight, when your opponent doesn't even try at least a little offensive move and leaves himself a little bit open when he do so.




I agree, and i laughed when someone posted a pick and Hardy's face and posted one of Fitches face, as if Hardy did a better job....

I was thinking, At least Fitch was able to go offensive and pose some type of threat to get a face like that....

And yeah GSP keeps getting better so its hard to measure how much better Fitch or the other top guys would of done, but the second the fight went to the feet ALL Hardy thought about was, DONT TAKE ME DOWN..... DONT TAKE ME DOWN.... 


Just like with Alves.... But at least Alves was able to muscle himself out some of the time lol


----------



## BobbyCooper

Exactly guys!

here if you haven't seen this gif yet..


----------



## BrianRClover

Okay, so I only first looked at this thread when it was already 40 pages deep. Having read a few post, and skimmed through a few more... I'm just going to say this and be done with it.

Georges fought a smart fight, no question about it. Whether you like GSP or not is completely in the eye of the beholder.

My personal opinion, the guy is an INCREDIBLE grappler, with little to no finishing skills. I find him boring and I will never pay for a pay per view that he headlines again.

Now having said that, I'm not into wrestling. My background is in kick boxing and Muay Thai. On the flip side of that, I watched 111 with a guy named Cole Reedy who is one of the top high school wrestlers in the state of Missouri and he thought GSP was a god and was going nuts with every take down that I called "boring".

The debate is all about personal perception. Yes I find GSP boring, I don't like to watch him fight... but he is an amazing champion and will probably remain as such for a very long time. In the mean time, guys like me and everyone else on here complaining about him will just have to wait for a KO artist to develope some real take down defense. In the meantime, GSP is our welterweight champion, get used to it.


----------



## hommage1985

Dan Hardy did nothing at all. He knew he had to get lucky and didn't even try to land any hard shots. But then again it's what i expect when UFC overhypes guys who are not worthy contenders Tahiles Leites cough cough***


----------



## Soojooko

Come on now Bob! You said you were sure GSP would kill Hardy with striking. You said if Hardy makes it to round3 you would give him credit! 

Assuming Hardy didn't come to fight without considering we may have been seeing the fastest most explosive takedowns EVER! I don't buy it. GSP didn't give Hardy even the slightest whiff of room to find a riddum. His takedowns made Hardy look like a little 7 year old. They were stunning in speed and technique.

I'm tempted to get all geeky and analyse frame-by-frame the Fitch, Alves and Hardy fights to see whether his TDs are even faster. They we're within a blink. Unstoppable. I dont care how good your TDD is.

Rather than completely discredit Hardy, I choose to credit GSP. Fitch, Kos and Alves are not GSP. I'm certainly not going to assume that any of those 3 can walk through Hardy as easily as GSP did.


----------



## Soojooko

limba said:


> Excellent post!!!
> Didn't think of this...but you make an excellent point.
> Let's say he would face Hazellet and he would keep the fight standing...
> I can already see "the haters": "why didn't he try to go the ground? He was definetly scared of beeing subbed...:sarcastic12:"
> 
> Again..excellent point..congratulations.:thumbsup:


Kind of a good point yes, but dont forget he took Penn down an awful lot. Penns BJJ would ruin just about anybody.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Soojooko said:


> Come on now Bob! You said you were sure GSP would kill Hardy with striking. You said if Hardy makes it to round3 you would give him credit!
> 
> Assuming Hardy didn't come to fight without considering we may have been seeing the fastest most explosive takedowns EVER! I don't buy it. GSP didn't give Hardy even the slightest whiff of room to find a riddum. His takedowns made Hardy look like a little 7 year old. They were stunning in speed and technique.
> 
> I'm tempted to get all geeky and analyse frame-by-frame the Fitch, Alves and Hardy fights to see whether his TDs are even faster. They we're within a blink. Unstoppable. I dont care how good your TDD is.
> 
> Rather than completely discredit Hardy, I choose to credit GSP. Fitch, Kos and Alves are not GSP. I'm certainly not going to assume that any of those 3 can walk through Hardy as easily as GSP did.


I give him credit for that Soojo! But Hardy really didn't came there to put everything on the line and try to take the belt away from George. He didn't really came to fight! He went in there to show us, that he can survive 5 rounds with GSP. And he is proud of his performance.. I can't remember when I saw the last title fight, where somebody didn't even tried.. or couldn't! I mean GSP striked with Hardy for a little time, but Hardy was just standing there and took the shots and laughed.. what was THAT??? Go and try to use your "superior" striking then just standing there and laugh.
I mean you really could see how far superior GSP actually is on the feet. Hardy is the much taller guy, with a longer reach. If the much taller guy can't even bring the jab, he is doing something completely wrong!

If you have a guy who just tries to survive for 5 rounds and doesn't show any kind of offence, it's hard to give him props for that, even though he deserves some like I said. 

It was again a major mistake from the UFC to give Hardy a title fight, it's not Hardy's fault. I dunno if GSP really improved that much after his last fight, but I'm sure he did.


----------



## Soojooko

BobbyCooper said:


> I give him credit for that Soojo! But Hardy really didn't came there to put everything on the line and try to take the belt away from George. He didn't really came to fight! He went in there to show us, that he can survive 5 rounds with GSP. And he is proud of his performance.. I can't remember when I saw the last title fight, where somebody didn't even tried.. or couldn't! I mean GSP striked with Hardy for a little time, but Hardy was just standing there and took the shots and laughed.. what was THAT??? Go and try to use your "superior" striking then just standing there and laugh.
> I mean you really could see how far superior GSP actually is on the feet. Hardy is the much taller guy, with a longer reach. If the much taller guy can't even bring the jab, he is doing something completely wrong!
> 
> If you have a guy who just tries to survive for 5 rounds and doesn't show any kind of offence, it's hard to give him props for that, even though he deserves some like I said.
> 
> It was again a major mistake from the UFC to give Hardy a title fight, it's not Hardy's fault. I dunno if GSP really improved that much after his last fight.


Ive not actually given Hardy any props at all. I dont consider anything he did prop worthy. The point I was trying to make is that he was in with something super human. The speed of GSPs takedowns were extra ordinary. How do you find any kind of rhythm under those kinds of conditions? We'll see soon enough when GSP gives Kos, Fitch and Alves the same treatment and you'll see what I'm saying.

None of the current WWs will beat GSP with his current gameplan. None of them will likely ever even take a round off him.

Its quite funny. The anti-Hardys want to beat on him more and more even though the fight is over. So much so, its left to ME to give GSP his props for being so amazing.

And finally, I never saw Hardy say he was proud of his performance. Your confusing some of the pointless gushing from UK fans saying they are "proud" of Dan... I'm not proud of him. Dan sure as feck isn't proud of himself I can promise you that.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Soojooko said:


> Ive not actually given Hardy any props at all. I dont consider anything he did prop worthy. The point I was trying to make is that he was in with something super human. The speed of GSPs takedowns were extra ordinary. How do you find any kind of rhythm under those kinds of conditions? We'll see soon enough when GSP gives Kos, Fitch and Alves the same treatment and you'll see what I'm saying.
> 
> None of the current WWs will beat GSP with his current gameplan. None of them will likely ever even take a round off him.
> 
> Its quite funny. The anti-Hardys want to beat on him more and more even though the fight is over. So much so, its left to ME to give GSP his props for being so amazing.
> 
> And finally, I never saw Hardy say he was proud of his performance. Your confusing some of the pointless gushing from UK fans saying they are "proud" of Dan... I'm not proud of him. Dan sure as feck isn't proud of himself I can promise you that.


Exactly Soojo, GSP is something very special in the MMA World! Thats why I just can't stop dreaming about him fighting Silva  It's something he should plan after his next title defense even though ppl give him a smaller chances now.. wich they shouldn't. Because his performance last night was incredible in my mind! 
I say it again, it really wasn't Dan's fault, that he couldn't do anything. He should not have been there that night. He was nowhere ready and we (everybody) knew that before. You can't put a Wrestler against a Striker with close to zero TDD!

But Dan was proud of himself! Here watch that video Soojo.. http://www.sherdog.com/videos/recent/Hardy-I-Wasnt-Overwhelmed-2342 

Hardy tries very hard not to laugh! He feels very very good about his performance and that he survived 5 Rounds. He can barrely get the smile out of his face in this interview. You can call that to preen..I believe.


----------



## G_Land

It says the video has been removed...that blows


----------



## BobbyCooper

G_Land said:


> It says the video has been removed...that blows


Does it really? :confused02: I can watch it G try this one here..

http://www.mmator.com/serious-mma-videos-f7/hardy-i-wasn-t-overwhelmed--t20688.html


----------



## G_Land

Same thing maybe its because Im at work. Ill check it out when I get home bro thanks tho!


----------



## Soojooko

BobbyCooper said:


> But Dan was proud of himself! Here watch that video Soojo.. http://www.sherdog.com/videos/recent/Hardy-I-Wasnt-Overwhelmed-2342
> 
> Hardy tries very hard not to laugh! He feels very very good about his performance and that he survived 5 Rounds. He can barrely get the smile out of his face in this interview. You can call that to preen..I believe.


Lol Bob! Whats up with you dude?! You love to speculate dont you?! Maybe that why I love jousting with you all the time!

Dan smirking does not equal him being proud. Yes he smiles a lot. Its better than looking miserable, no? Forget the interview. When hes lying in bed alone at night, he's not proud at all. More likely he wants to cry.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Soojooko said:


> Lol Bob! Whats up with you dude?! You love to speculate dont you?! Maybe that why I love jousting with you all the time!
> 
> Dan smirking does not equal him being proud. Yes he smiles a lot. Its better than looking miserable, no? Forget the interview. When hes lying in bed alone at night, he's not proud at all. More likely he wants to cry.


Come on Soojo^^ you can't deny that Dan is happy about his performance. Nobody and really nobody expected him to last longer then 2 rounds. But he made it 5! so thats a huge success for him and something he is proud of wich he shouldn't!

An easy example, watch the Fitch, Alves or BJ Penn post fight interviews. These guys were broken human beings and looked like, that they have lost there soul that night in that fight against George. Something what they would never regain. These guys really believed that they could beat GSP that night! Something Hardy never did. He said it yes, but he never believed it like the guys before him. Thats why he even feels a little bit satisfaction (like we can see in the vid), something you didn't saw from BJ, Fitch or Alves. It's a huge difference how these guys felt and how Hardy feels now! 

Watch some Penn, Fitch post fight interviews if you can even find some. Hardy steps in front of the camera like he would have did something great..((I was wondering, that he didn't appeared on the post fight press conference to be honest)) 

BJ was not responsive and even thought about ending his career after that fight.


----------



## Soojooko

BobbyCooper said:


> Come on Soojo^^ you can't deny that Dan is happy about his performance. Nobody and really nobody expected him to last longer then 2 rounds. But he made it 5! so thats a huge success for him and something he is proud of wich he shouldn't!
> 
> An easy example, watch the Fitch, Alves or BJ Penn post fight interviews. These guys were broken human beings and looked like, that they have lost there soul that night in that fight against George. Something what they would never regain. These guys really believed that they could beat GSP that night! Something Hardy never did. He said it yes, but he never believed it like the guys before him. Thats why he even feels a little bit satisfaction (like we can see in the vid), something you didn't saw from BJ, Fitch or Alves. It's a huge difference how these guys felt and how Hardy feels now!
> 
> Watch some Penn, Fitch post fight interviews if you can even find some. Hardy steps in front of the camera like he would have did something great..((I was wondering, that he didn't appeared on the post fight press conference to be honest))
> 
> BJ was not responsive and even thought about ending his career after that fight.


Are you saying that becuase Hardy didnt look crushed, he must have been happy with his performance? Seriously? All I see is the same old very confident cocky funny dude I saw before. None of those other fighters have Hardys personality.

Listen to what you are saying Bob. Hardy got destroyed for 5 rounds. Everything you said is true. He was humiliated and in over his head. Theres no doubt about that. But it sounds like thats not enough for you. Like you're disappointed he doesn't look completely suicidal after the fight like those other 3 muppets did. The fact that he looks like the same old Dan Hardy after the 5 round beat down seems to annoy you enough to suggest "proud" of himself?

If theres anything to be proud of, it s the fact that Dan Hardy is Dan Hardy. Not fake. Always the same.


----------



## swpthleg

I don't see anything wrong with it, if Hardy only came to show that he could go 5 rounds with GSP. 

He knows that in itself will make him legendary.


----------



## Observer11

*Confused*

How can you complain about this, He played to his strengths. Why would you stand up with someone who is debatably stronger striking?


----------



## BobbyCooper

Soojooko said:


> Are you saying that becuase Hardy didnt look crushed, he must have been happy with his performance? Seriously? All I see is the same old very confident cocky funny dude I saw before. None of those other fighters have Hardys personality.
> 
> Listen to what you are saying Bob. Hardy got destroyed for 5 rounds. Everything you said is true. He was humiliated and in over his head. Theres no doubt about that. But it sounds like thats not enough for you. Like you're disappointed he doesn't look completely suicidal after the fight like those other 3 muppets did. The fact that he looks like the same old Dan Hardy after the 5 round beat down seems to annoy you enough to suggest "proud" of himself?
> 
> If theres anything to be proud of, it s the fact that Dan Hardy is Dan Hardy. Not fake. Always the same.


No no not at all! The thing wich annoys me so much about him right now, is that he actually feels a little bit like a winner.. wich he totally isn't. For me he looked worse then everyone GSP has faced so far. I just want that he acknowledges that, thats all! 

If you lose a ones in a life time opportunity and you really believed in yourself, you don't act like Hardy does right now.


----------



## ajitator

BobbyCooper said:


> I have a question to the BJJ guys on this board! Can you really get out of a Kimura like that by your own? without your opponent letting go?? :confused02:


you can't man, gsp can keep that lock for the whole round if he wants too.. kimura is more of a 'lock' than a hold. it doesn't take too much energy to keep it. haven't you guys seen fight science with randy couture? hardy was in no position to roll out of it easily.

you must be out of your mind if you think gsp wouldn't have been able to tear hardy's muscle/ligament at the very least, just by popping that arm up and down.


----------



## suniis

coldcall420 said:


> No, not at all, it just doesn't make GSP a better Martial Artist.....we didn't see Martial Arts, we saw wrestling......thats all I'm saying....:thumb02:


Since when Martial Arts means "standing doing Karate kicks"??

The submission attempts by GSP are Jiu Jitsu techniques, which is a martial art.


----------



## MoopsiePuffs

There is a video on UFC.com where GSP is asking his BJJ coach why Hardy didn't tap in the kimura and armbar, why would he ask if he simply chose to let it go?


----------



## BlacklistShaun

ajitator said:


> you can't man, gsp can keep that lock for the whole round if he wants too.. kimura is more of a 'lock' than a hold. it doesn't take too much energy to keep it. haven't you guys seen fight science with randy couture? hardy was in no position to roll out of it easily.
> 
> you must be out of your mind if you think gsp wouldn't have been able to tear hardy's muscle/ligament at the very least, just by popping that arm up and down.


He didn't do the Kimura properly, which allowed Hardy to hold out a lot longer than what he would have if he performed the move properly. I'm sure he torqued on it a few times, saw he wasn't tapping, and decided to let go to keep dominant position rather than risking Hardy escaping and possibly getting back up.


----------



## tripster

BlacklistShaun said:


> He didn't do the Kimura properly, which allowed Hardy to hold out a lot longer than what he would have if he performed the move properly. I'm sure he torqued on it a few times, saw he wasn't tapping, and decided to let go to keep dominant position rather than risking Hardy escaping and possibly getting back up.


I see a lot of people saying "he didn't do it properly" or "his technique was wrong" but I still haven't seen an explanation as to what he did wrong. I'm just a layman fan of MMA, can someone tell me what was wrong with his move? What was he supposed to do?


----------



## vandalian

coldcall420 said:


> No, not at all, it just doesn't make GSP a better Martial Artist.....we didn't see Martial Arts, we saw wrestling......thats all I'm saying....:thumb02:


I can't agree that all GSP did was wrestle. But even if he did, do you not consider wrestling a martial art?


----------



## Life B Ez

suniis said:


> Since when Martial Arts means "standing doing Karate kicks"??
> 
> The submission attempts by GSP are Jiu Jitsu techniques, which is a martial art.





vandalian said:


> I can't agree that all GSP did was wrestle. But even if he did, do you not consider wrestling a martial art?


He's a Machida fan, he would prefer GSP backpedaled for all 25 minutes, avoided getting hit, never engaged and got a UD that way.

Sorry Coldcall, got love, it was just too easy.


----------



## BobbyCooper

ajitator said:


> you must be out of your mind if you think gsp wouldn't have been able to tear hardy's muscle/ligament at the very least, just by popping that arm up and down.


I don't know, thats why I am asking!:dunno: I still can't believe, that he was not able to break his arm in that Kimura. It looked just to painful..



davelewis2k6 said:


> There is a video on UFC.com where GSP is asking his BJJ coach why Hardy didn't tap in the kimura and armbar, why would he ask if he simply chose to let it go?


Yea, he realized that Hardy wasn't tapping and let it go instead. That's how I can explain it to myself.



BlacklistShaun said:


> He didn't do the Kimura properly, which allowed Hardy to hold out a lot longer than what he would have if he performed the move properly. I'm sure he torqued on it a few times, saw he wasn't tapping, and decided to let go to keep dominant position rather than risking Hardy escaping and possibly getting back up.


I think that's the most obvious one!


----------



## BrutalKO

TraMaI said:


> Wrong, friendo. Jackson kept saying "Do NOT pass and just post up and pound him!" GSP continued to do the exact opposite.


...Hey, We're both right friendo. End of debate...


----------



## brucelee23

rogi said:


> Wow, so many losers in this thread.
> 
> omg, Dan lasted 5 rounds and didn't tap. we're so proud, he may have lost, but he really won. Really Brucelee23, he showed he deserved to be in there with GSP? Really? how so? by NOT getting completely destroyed?
> 
> wtf kinda pussies are you all? he got his assed kicked for 25 mins, did absolutely nothing. this was a fight for the title, he's suppose to be the best contender, and everyone's so proud he lay around got slapped around for 5 rounds and not tap?
> 
> jeez, he sucked, grow some balls, and call it as it is.


How did you work that one out. Dan hardy did not get destroyed for 25 minutes, he got controlled yeh, but not destroyed. Fitch and alves deserved their shot at GSP and when it came, they got destroyed, hardy got no fan respect for his shot against GSP and he didnt get destroyed like the other two did. Sure enough hardy didnt do much, but GSP never mashed him up like alves and fitch !!!

Some one who doesnt deserve to be in there with him would have been someone who walks in and gets carried out after one round !! Someone who does nothing and still lasts 25 minutes despite being controlled the whole time deserves to be in there with him in my opinion, sure enough hardy did not challenge him, but just imagine what would have happened if swick had gone in there instead !! lights out in 2 minutes !!


----------



## Syxx Paq

UFC 120: GSP vs. The-next-person-to-lose-to-GSP-after-a-5-round-snore-fest. honestly, the welterweights have nearly gotten boring, except the Kos, Hardy, Daley, Rumble, Davis' that actualy go out and fight, with intention of ending the fight. the people saying GSP is smart for not standing with hardy are right, however GSP is dumb for not even attempting to finish after the two arm locks didnt produce satisfactory results.


----------



## michelangelo

It was a moral victor for Hardy, and I suppose by way of extension for UK MMA fans as well, but there are still glaring weaknesses in his game which will prevent him from becoming a champion anytime soon. 

He still gets owned by a top level wrestler such as Koshcheck, and probably by Fitch as well. Also, he's primarily a boxer and doesn't have an answer for the leg kicks of a top notch muay thai striker such as Thiago Alves. 

No one has seen evidence of his takedowns, takedown defense, or BJJ. 

In other words, Hardy is a moderately charismatic and somewhat polarizing of a figure, but he doesn't have the overall fight game necessary to back up the trash talk as of yet. 

It seems like the top british MMA guys equate martial arts with boxing: Daley, Hardy, Bisping. Unless these guys can learn how to wrestle and/or submit other fighters, they are not going to become champions, except in the nebulous sense of a "people's champion" or something along those lines.


----------



## Syxx Paq

I'm American, proud of it, i didnt have patriotic horse in the race, and even i will say if nothing else Dan Hardy showed balls in that fight. GSP showed fear. I think Hardy will be a little mad about the fight and jump a few million levels up in overall game, hell im hoping for it. In a loss that man gave me more respect for him, and every other UK fighter.


----------



## punchbag

kenkoy said:


> if you guys really think hardy got away because "he doesnt quit" then you need to wake up. You can see it during the kimura, gsp looked at the referee and paused for about 10 secs pondering. he knew that hardy wasnt gonna tap, and he also knew he was winning so he let him go.
> 
> he even said it on the post fight conference, he prays that him and his opponent doesnt get hurt bad and able to walk away from fight. of course he will never admit what he did.
> 
> gsp knows that breaking his arm would do nothing but harm the mma in the USA (we dont need another shinya aoiki here).
> 
> true class from gsp, he's the epitome of sportsmanship in my eyes. unlike roousimar, and that black dude that fought last week.
> 
> ps. not quitting in an armbar/kimura is just plain stupid. to quote bj penn "you wont be wiping your ass for a few months with that kimura"


To be fair I don't think if G.S.P broke Hardys arm it would have harmed the sport one bit. It's up to the ref to stop the fight. If Dan was tapping then G.S.P continued and broke his arm, then I could see an issue, but your right, G.s.p is a class act. 
In regard to Rousimar he was just holding on until the ref stopped the fight, the slowed down replay did him no favours, and as he explained later on other fighters in his camp had previously lost fights, due to letting go of submissions when they felt the fighter tap (Murrilo Bustamante vs Matt Lindland) where the fighter denied it and ended up getting a decision and he didn't want to risk it. 
He also said that he did not intend to do this but wanted to ensure the win.
I think the commission that banned him realised their was no malice, which is why I think they only gave him 90 days suspension knowing the UFC would be unlikly to use him in this time period,it may have been a slight bit long he was just making sure the ref told him to stop to get the win.
This was unlike with Babulu who intentionally wanted to put his opponent to sleep, as he even said after the fight he wanted his opponent to know respect. 
It's acts like this that could damage the sport, but you always get a few idiots in every sport, although I do love Babalu.


----------



## punchbag

tripster said:


> I see a lot of people saying "he didn't do it properly" or "his technique was wrong" but I still haven't seen an explanation as to what he did wrong. I'm just a layman fan of MMA, can someone tell me what was wrong with his move? What was he supposed to do?


Hardy said after the fight in an interview that he didn't know what "tap" was. George also said I think he was made of rubber, technically I couldn't see that he did anything wrong at the time, i'll have to watch it again, but think Hardy was just stubborn as shit, so George maybe didn't think he was gonna tap so just thought i'll try something else. If it was a choke he would've just gone to sleep.


----------



## BlacklistShaun

tripster said:


> I see a lot of people saying "he didn't do it properly" or "his technique was wrong" but I still haven't seen an explanation as to what he did wrong. I'm just a layman fan of MMA, can someone tell me what was wrong with his move? What was he supposed to do?


Idealy to me I much prefer to keep my opponents back pinned to the floor. It requires much less torque to finish the move and keeps them pinned much better. When you pull their back off the floor it takes much more motion to complete the move, especially with someone who has very flexible shoulders. Not to mention the fact that the more you lift their back off the floor the easier you are making it for them to escape.

It goes along the same lines as with an americana. I can changes the position of the wrist before I start turning it over and finish the move much easier and get a tap with barely even torquing on the shoulder.

The traditional way to do the Kimura was the step over. He did a big step over and lifted him pretty far off the floor if I remember correctly. Lots of people have started doing it by securing the Kimura and then positioning around and putting their belly on their opponents face to keep their shoulders pinned.


----------



## VolcomX311

tecnotut said:


> GSP said in the press conference:
> 
> Reporter: Did you not want to break his arm?
> GSP: I TRIED TO BREAK IT - I TRIED 100%
> Reporter: So you tried to break his arm?
> GSP: Of course....
> 
> End of thread.


Why didn't this debate end at this? Are his balls that tasty?


----------



## VolcomX311

He's the best and he's a fighter. He's also the classiest fighter out there, but don't take the St. Pierre thing too far. He isn't a real life saint. 

Anyone remember him banging the cage at the end of the rounds with BJ. GSP sincerely desires finishing, he knows that's what everyone wants him to prove. Of course he wanted to finish Hardy.


----------



## BobbyCooper

brucelee23 said:


> How did you work that one out. Dan hardy did not get destroyed for 25 minutes, he got controlled yeh, but not destroyed. Fitch and alves deserved their shot at GSP and when it came, they got destroyed, hardy got no fan respect for his shot against GSP and he didnt get destroyed like the other two did. Sure enough hardy didnt do much, but GSP never mashed him up like alves and fitch !!!
> 
> Some one who doesnt deserve to be in there with him would have been someone who walks in and gets carried out after one round !! Someone who does nothing and still lasts 25 minutes despite being controlled the whole time deserves to be in there with him in my opinion, sure enough hardy did not challenge him, but just imagine what would have happened if swick had gone in there instead !! lights out in 2 minutes !!


read below.. 



unknown said:


> But that was not Hardy's benefit at all! He only got unscarred out of this fight, because GSP used a totally different strategy, wich he could not apply against his recent opponents. He used the right strategy that night, wich was to submit Dan Hardy. If Hardy for example had the calibre of a Jon Fitch, BJ Penn groundgame nobody would have recorgnized him after the fight.. he would have looked even worse then Fitch!


here this guy made a point! :thumbsup:


----------



## tripster

With time to digest this fight now, and view some of the interviews and press conference I've come to the conclusion that GSP was very cautious in this fight and made sure he stacked the deck 100% in his favour. I said it before, I really think GSP's standup is good enough to take on Hardy. I would really like to see and Hardy vs Alves fight. I would be betting on Alves and I'm sure that fight would stay standing. GSP showed faster more accurate hands in the stand-up against Alves and I think he would show the same against Hardy.


----------



## limba

Syxx Paq said:


> UFC 120: GSP vs. The-next-person-to-lose-to-GSP-after-a-5-round-snore-fest. honestly, the welterweights have nearly gotten boring, except the Kos, *Hardy*, Daley, *Rumble*, Davis' that actualy go out and fight, with intention of ending the fight. the people saying GSP is smart for not standing with hardy are right, *however GSP is dumb for not even attempting to finish* after the two arm locks didnt produce satisfactory results.


I think there is no need for insults.. I consider what you said was an insult..period.
So..Hardy is not boring, right? Look at his record in the UFC before the GSP fight: one KO against a Markham, one unanimous decision and two split decisions. And take a closer look at the fights. 
As for Rumble, knocking weaker strikers out, i would call that boring also. Why didn't Rumble try and mix his game against his victims? maybe because he knew he has the advantage on the feet? Against kos he looked like a fish out of the water when they went on the ground.


----------



## HexRei

Syxx Paq said:


> UFC 120: GSP vs. The-next-person-to-lose-to-GSP-after-a-5-round-snore-fest. honestly, the welterweights have nearly gotten boring, except the Kos, Hardy, Daley, Rumble, Davis' that actualy go out and fight, with intention of ending the fight. the people saying GSP is smart for not standing with hardy are right, however GSP is dumb for not even attempting to finish after the two arm locks didnt produce satisfactory results.


LOL you listed 4/5 predominant strikers there as your examples of exciting. Once again, perhaps it is kickboxing you would like to watch instead?


----------



## limba

HexRei said:


> LOL you listed 4/5 predominant strikers there as your examples of exciting. Once again, perhaps it is kickboxing you would like to watch instead?


Agreed. :thumbsup:


----------



## Sugar R

*I've seen better after school @ 3 oclock*



michelangelo said:


> I'll admit that this argument is highly speculative, and difficult or impossible to corroborate at this point in time. Nonetheless, I believe the truth of the matter will be made known in the next few days, weeks or months.
> 
> I believe GSP was simply toying with Hardy. Hardy was defenseless twice and GSP could have seriously injured him on both occasions. Each time GSP eased up and let go, not as a result of Hardy's sub defense, but because GSP allowed Hardy to escape.
> 
> At this point, GSP is simply too good for the WW division. This bout was literally an exhibition of wrestling and JJ holds, without any attempt to inflict damage on GSP's part. It was a bit like the Fedor vs. Aoki exhibition "match" with GSP playing the role of Fedor.
> 
> GSP was in a tough position: if he cranks Hardy's arm and hurts a young fighter, he becomes branded "the bad guy." But if he lets go of the holds, he risks damaging the competitive credibility of the UFC by not going full tilt, the implicit premise of any fight, especially a title fight.
> 
> An interesting contrast to the Palharas match to be sure, at the very least.
> 
> Discuss.


I agree with you that fight was lacking GSP seemed like he was scared to death of man to man toe to toe fight with hardy, his take down was cool but he couldnt submit hardy for his life 

KIMBO SLICE, BROCK LESNAR, TITO ORTIZ!!! SEE ALL YOUR FAVORITES WHEN THEY WERE JUST KIDS...

http://www.celebrityschoolpics.com/c...6/kimbo-slice/

http://www.celebrityschoolpics.com/c.../brock-lesnar/

http://www.celebrityschoolpics.com/c...89/tito-ortiz/

http://www.celebrityschoolpics.com/c...randy-couture/


----------



## GSP15

brucelee23 said:


> How did you work that one out. Dan hardy did not get destroyed for 25 minutes, he got controlled yeh, but not destroyed. Fitch and alves deserved their shot at GSP and when it came, they got destroyed, hardy got no fan respect for his shot against GSP and he didnt get destroyed like the other two did. Sure enough hardy didnt do much, but GSP never mashed him up like alves and fitch !!!
> 
> Some one who doesnt deserve to be in there with him would have been someone who walks in and gets carried out after one round !! Someone who does nothing and still lasts 25 minutes despite being controlled the whole time deserves to be in there with him in my opinion, sure enough hardy did not challenge him, but just imagine what would have happened if swick had gone in there instead !! lights out in 2 minutes !!


Hardy didn't get destroyed because GSP was trying to submit him all night long... Hardy sucks.

/Thread


----------



## Life B Ez

Sugar R said:


> KIMBO SLICE, BROCK LESNAR, TITO ORTIZ!!! SEE ALL YOUR FAVORITES WHEN THEY WERE JUST KIDS...
> 
> http://www.celebrityschoolpics.com/c...6/kimbo-slice/
> 
> http://www.celebrityschoolpics.com/c.../brock-lesnar/
> 
> http://www.celebrityschoolpics.com/c...89/tito-ortiz/
> 
> http://www.celebrityschoolpics.com/c...randy-couture/


This shit is getting old real quick, I've seen a handful just today, of completely off topic posts wanting you to go look at pics.


----------



## ESPADA9

I’ll never understand why people view and athlete’s success from their home country as translating directly to them, the “fan.”

Anyhow I’m not a Hardy fan but lasting 5 rounds with GSP, his sub defense and resilience gave me no choice but to respect him as a fighter.

He has TONS of work to do on his wrestling and TDD game but he’s going to be a force at 170 no mater what.

All the talk about GSP being such a phenomenal athlete (completely deserved) I thought Hardy showed some genuine athleticism in this fight. He’s not at GSPs level but he IS impressive.
The skill level in MMA keeps growing.


----------



## KittenStrangler

HexRei said:


> you listed 4/5 predominant strikers there as your examples of exciting. Once again, perhaps it is kickboxing you would like to watch instead?


I LOL'd at the stupidity of that comment. So because 4/5 of the fighters he likes are strikers he should go watch kickboxing instead of MMA? Using that flawed way of thinking, a person whose favorite fighters are predominantly wrestlers should go watch college wrestling instead:confused02:? What a joke.


----------



## Life B Ez

KittenStrangler said:


> I LOL'd at the stupidity of that comment. So because 4/5 of the fighters he likes are strikers he should go watch kickboxing instead of MMA? Using that flawed way of thinking, a person whose favorite fighters are predominantly wrestlers should go watch college wrestling instead:confused02:? What a joke.


He was just saying that if all you want to see are guys standing toe to toe and striking, MMA isn't for you, stop acting like a tool.


----------



## HexRei

If he were just listing his fave exciting fighters outside the context of this discussion where he's criticizing GSP's use of grappling, no, of course I would not make the suggestion. But here we are, and it does beg the question, if you don't like groundgame so much that you criticize one of the best fighters of all time for using it to gain that status, and clearly state a preference to watch strikers, why watch a sport that has a groundgame?

I would ask a similar question of someone who seemed to only like groundfighting and groundfighters, and criticized Anderson Silva for refusing to takedown or follow his opponents to the ground for a finish.


----------



## Danm2501

GSP15 said:


> Hardy didn't get destroyed because GSP was trying to submit him all night long... Hardy sucks.
> 
> /Thread


Avoiding getting submitted by a high level grappler, with a BJJ black belt, some of the best wrestling in MMA and incredible guard-passing means he sucks? GSP submitted a prime Matt Hughes; so I'd say Hardy avoiding getting subbed by a submission-focused Georges St-Pierre deserves more credit than it's getting. I admit it wasn't a great performance from Hardy, he was dominated from start to finish, but he wasn't submitted and took very little damage. I think he deserves some credit for that.


----------



## LOJ

Not enough ground and pound from GSP. I love how he just takes everybody down at will and controls them, not many fighters out there can continue to do this. Seeing how his early sub attempts failed; he should have then continued to punch a black whole in Hardy's face.


----------



## KittenStrangler

Life B Ez said:


> He was just saying that if all you want to see are guys standing toe to toe and striking, MMA isn't for you.


I understood exactly what he meant and responded accordingly.



Life B Ez said:


> stop acting like a tool.


The same can be said about you.


----------



## Life B Ez

KittenStrangler said:


> I understood exactly what he meant and responded accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> The same can be said about you.


No, you clearly didn't because you wouldn't have told him to go watch college wrestling, but nice try to save face.


----------



## KittenStrangler

Life B Ez said:


> No, you clearly didn't because you wouldn't have told him to go watch college wrestling, but nice try to save face.





> Using that flawed way of thinking, *a person* whose favorite fighters are predominantly wrestlers should go watch college wrestling instead?


Are you illiterate? Learn to read.

Nice try at being mildly intelligent though.


----------



## Life B Ez

KittenStrangler said:


> Are you illiterate? Learn to read.
> 
> Nice try at being mildly intelligent though.


Yes because you were not at all trying to say he should go watch college wrestling. You sir, are a tool, once again, nice try.


----------



## LOJ

This fight was good for both fighters..

1) Dan Hardy proves that yes, he needs to work on his game but at the same time steps up and refuses to quit. This fight will only make this young fighter better. He went 5 rounds with best welterweight on the planet. Yes he did get controled for five rounds, but he survived. Well done sir.

2) GSP learns that a decision is not what he wants and it hurts as much as a loss. He learns what he did wrong in the submission attempts and needs to listen to his corner more when they say ground and pound. He needs to be more confident on the feet, and be the ruthless champion that he is. Hes not "afraid" to get hit, hes afraid to lose and is not using all his MMA tools like he did in the second Serra fight.

Both fighters will get better because of this. It's only one fight, both of these guys will be around for a long time. They will come back stronger and better, and that's whats most important.


----------



## KittenStrangler

Life B Ez said:


> Yes because you were not at all trying to say he should go watch college wrestling. You sir, are a tool, once again, nice try.


Why would I use a system that I specifically called "flawed" in my favor? Not only that but I have no idea who his favorite fighters are to say that. Jesus you're stupid. It's like having an argument with a second grader.


----------



## Life B Ez

KittenStrangler said:


> Why would I use a system that I specifically called "flawed" in my favor? Not only that but I have no idea who his favorite fighters are to say that. Jesus you're stupid. It's like having an argument with a second grader.




Typical annoying new fan, did you know MMA existed before the game came out? 

But I'm done with this, not going to have a pointless argument, once again nice try.


----------



## KittenStrangler

Life B Ez said:


> Typical annoying new fan, did you know MMA existed before the game came out?
> 
> But I'm done with this, not going to have a pointless argument, once again nice try.


Starting the argument and then running away after realizing how stupid you were?

 

Nice try though.


----------



## alizio

its kinda like having a special needs child i guess....

if he scores a basket and loses 100-1. u feel proud.

too bad Hardy isnt a special needs kid, or is he??

kinda funny, im proud u survived.....


btw **** the MMA math in this thread... dont be saying hardy > penn or silly things

every fight is different.

all i learned the other night is that old school Matt Hughes could and would tool Hardy and likely be able to finish him aswell.


----------



## swpthleg

Please keep the discussion civil.


----------



## swpthleg

I'm sorry, did you post something next to the avatar of that amazing ass?


----------



## tripster

swpthleg said:


> I'm sorry, did you post something next to the avatar of that amazing ass?


Why does life B EZ have a picture of a wonderfully delicious buttocks and swpthleg have a picture of a half naked man?


----------



## sworddemon

Wowwwwwww...

I think the only credit we should be giving Hardy is for showing resiliency in those submissions and for not gassing out completely in his first 5 round fight. Other than that, the guy had absolutely no business being in that fight with GSP. How the hell does a guy who gets his ass handed to him for 5 straight rounds get more 'props' than the guy that handed out the beating?! By this twisted logic we should be all jumping on Thales Leites' nuts for surviving 5 rounds with Anderson.


----------



## coldcall420

Life B Ez said:


> He's a Machida fan, he would prefer GSP backpedaled for all 25 minutes, avoided getting hit, never engaged and got a UD that way.
> 
> Sorry Coldcall, got love, it was just too easy.


 
I am a Machida fan, and honestly to use Machida and GSP in the same sentence in terms of Karate is a joke.....anyway leave Lyoto alone he is having sex with his wife only if her legs are covered and seeking therapy to deal with the anxiety...

Seriously though, Machida elusively avoids attack where as GSP just takes the guy to the ground...at least Machida stays on his feet.....




@ vALLIDIAN....YES I DO, HOWEVER if I master only one of many and then made the claim that I was going to teach or show someone what a real martial artist was it wouldn't simply consist of wrestling.....there would be mix up of the wrestling(which really I dont consider a oriental art) BJJ(which he used to no avail to finish the fight) and also striking.....that only the true nut huggers will say GSP did with Hardy.....

V......my main point is dont tout yourself as a Martial artist.....you think martial artist you think kick, punch, strike.....not just BJJ and GSP is afraid to get hit again and get cleaned......I dont give a shit about anyone on this board he said it himself, he is a proud person that doesn't want to lose on T.V. in front of thousands of people......so he is content with playing it ultra safe and not even effectively finishing submissions from the ground where he is clearly more comfortable......



Same goes to the other poster who's 1st post was questioning mine.....


----------



## Syxx Paq

sworddemon said:


> Wowwwwwww...
> 
> I think the only credit we should be giving Hardy is for showing resiliency in those submissions and for not gassing out completely in his first 5 round fight. Other than that, the guy had absolutely no business being in that fight with GSP. How the hell does a guy who gets his ass handed to him for 5 straight rounds get more 'props' than the guy that handed out the beating?! *By this twisted logic we should be all jumping on Thales Leites' nuts for surviving 5 rounds with Anderson.*


Difference with that is Anderson came back in his next fight against a former champion at Light-Heavyweight in Forrest Griffin, and knocked him the hell out.


----------



## SonofJor-El

I don't care if someone wins with standup, BJJ, wrestling, or really potent farts. I enjoy watching all fightig styles. What bugs me about this version of GSP is that I'd like to see fighters try and FINISH fights once in a while, especially when they're DOMINATING. 

There's nothing wrong with relying on the ground game but for crying out loud, open up with the GnP some more man! When he can take his opponent down at will and is in no danger of being sub'd, there's no reason he shouldn't be able to pound his opponent into mush! GSP earned his fame, reputation, and fanbase by being one of the most dyamic fighters out there. Where did that guy go?

If GSP wants to win every fight for the rest of his career by UD with ground control, playing it safe, and not taking chances that's fine. God bless him! But GSP needs to realize that people aren't going to pay to see 25-minute wrestling exhibitions much longer. IMHO he's one more UD away from having his next title defense be "live and free on Spike".


----------



## thrshr01

but he did try to finish the fight with subs


----------



## SonofJor-El

thrshr01 said:


> but he did try to finish the fight with subs


IMHO, subs are fine but when a fighter tries subs and they DON'T WORK, they should try something else to finish the fight other than wait for the bell to sound at the end of round 5. Rightly or wrongly, there's a widespread perception out there that GSP seems to be content to ride out 25-minute UDs. I'm just saying that if he wants to keep his fan base and his P4P status, he needs to correct this ASAP. I vote more GnP, less sub attempts.


----------



## suniis

coldcall420 said:


> Same goes to the other poster who's 1st post was questioning mine.....


And how many posts do I need before I can question his highness?


----------



## Life B Ez

tripster said:


> Why does life B EZ have a picture of a wonderfully delicious buttocks and swpthleg have a picture of a half naked man?


It's how we do things around here.


----------



## Life B Ez

swpthleg said:


> Please keep the discussion civil.


You know I always try, but trying to discuss something with someone who can't or won't listen to other views can be difficult and annoying. Which is why I dropped out of it, lol.


----------



## alizio

Syxx Paq said:


> Difference with that is Anderson came back in his next fight against a former champion at Light-Heavyweight in Forrest Griffin, and knocked him the hell out.


 the bigger difference is Leites actually did something at some point in the fight.

he was on top of anderson for quite awhile. Hardy was on top of GSP for seconds and never did anything. even all these times GSP had his back and looked to be falling off him, he offered nothing.

Leites performance > Hardys performance 

GSP still is impressed with either performance.


----------



## coldcall420

suniis said:


> And how many posts do I need before I can question his highness?


 

642....just an interesting 1st post, clearly your here to defend GSP....he's my fav 170 PD fighter which is why I would be and am so critical of him.....

Lastly, your question was answered, regardless of your post count....:thumbsup:

Welcome....BTW:thumb02:


----------



## coldcall420

KittenStrangler said:


> Starting the argument and then running away after realizing how stupid you were?
> 
> 
> 
> Nice try though.


I cant figure out why you get neg repped all the time cuz your posts crack me up and as soon as i spread some rep I'll paint you green...LMAO.....


----------



## swpthleg

Life B Ez said:


> It's how we do things around here.


I think the half naked man is more distracting. JMO.


----------



## Life B Ez

swpthleg said:


> I think the half naked man is more distracting. JMO.


Agreed, haha, probably because a few other people have avy's like mine, I don't see a lot of half naked men.


----------



## machidaisgod

I have critisized GSP some for this fight for not at least standing the last2-3 minutes when the chance of a knockout was about 1,000 to 1 in his favor. But I have to share some of the blame with the tediousness (if that is a word) of the fight with Hardy. Hardy talked like he wanted to win, was that just to sell tickets? I mean he knew what GSP was gonna do and he prepared zero for it. He took no chances in the standup game. I mean if it were you or I would not have we tried to lay a haymaker with fists or knees at some point? How was he fighting to win? He got top posititon, I know if I was fighting a better fighter, and he knew that, then you have to take a chance at some point and try finish him with a big/lucky shot from the top or give everything to a sub when you have the advantage. Yes it may backfire and you may lose, but at least you gave yourself a chance to win, how can you not risk (sure) defeat for a chance to win?


----------



## HitOrGetHit

VolcomX311 said:


> He's the best and he's a fighter.  He's also the classiest fighter out there, but don't take the St. Pierre thing too far. He isn't a real life saint.
> 
> Anyone remember him banging the cage at the end of the rounds with BJ. GSP sincerely desires finishing, he knows that's what everyone wants him to prove. Of course he wanted to finish Hardy.


I do recall this and I also remember him saying that he was mad about BJ not coming out for another round because he wanted to finish the fight.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Man GSP sure is getting a lot of hate. He is an incredibly intelligent fighter. Until someone proves that they can beat him on the ground, then why would he change his gameplan? Like I said earlier, don't fix it if it isn't broken. GSP can strike and can use it when he needs it, but he didn't really need to use it much which is why we didn't see it. GSP has shown how well rounded he is already. Just because he doesn't wrestle, then let him up, then outstrike someone, then judo throw someone and finish with a submission doesn't take anything away from his well rounded game.

Summary: Until someone can beat GSP at his own game, what would he feel the need to change it?


----------



## KittenStrangler

Life B Ez said:


> You know I always try, but trying to discuss something with someone who can't or won't listen to other views can be difficult and annoying. Which is why I dropped out of it, lol.


Too bad you didn't present a single view, all you did was rant about an assumption you falsely made. 



coldcall420 said:


> I cant figure out why you get neg repped all the time cuz your posts crack me up and as soon as i spread some rep I'll paint you green...LMAO.....


haha Within the 3 days I've been here, I gone back and forth from full red to full green about 4 times. Majority of the blame can be put on the GSP fans who don't like my opinion of him though.


----------



## LOJ

Dan Hardy not only did the UK proud, he did himself proud. Yes, he lost all five rounds to the champion and favored fighter to win, but that can be a good thing at the same time. Dan didn't take too much damage besides his arm during the fight and any fighter will tell you that a fight you go into and you don't get seriously injured is a damn good one.
I think he could have done a lot better in the offensive department, but you know what; he did what he could and he hung in there the whole fight. He is only going to progress from this fight. More than likly he will train more on his takedown defence and ground game when fighting a wrestler. A prime example of this would be if he fought John Fitch. He could neutralize Fitch's ability to take him down and have the better of him in the stand-up. Where I believe Hardy feals most comfortable.

Even GSP will get better from this fight, and he did Canada proud as he continues to do each and every fight. Not enough ground and pound from GSP, and he should have stopped with the sub attempts and went for the TKO. It was evident to me that Hardy was not going to quit early on in the fight.

But like I said before these are things you learn as you progress down your career. Both fighters will come back stronger and better in their future fights.


----------



## munkie

So him being absolutely dominated, thus proving he is completely inferior and overrated does the UK proud huh? That's quite sad really.


----------



## dvonfunk

TheNinja said:


> First off the fight sucked. Why because only Dan Hardy came to Fight.


If this was true you'd think Dan Hardy might have practiced his takedown defense a little bit. I know GSP's takedowns are otherworldly, but I've never seen a supposed number one contender get taken down with literally ZERO resistance. What? Did Dan Hardy just think GSP was going to stand there and bang with him? Yeah, I would've liked to have seen GSP finish him but really, the only one that should be embarrassed by their performance is Dan Hardy. Kudos to him for taking minimal damage (except maybe to his arms) and not tapping, but come on...


----------



## Soojooko

BobbyCooper said:


> No no not at all! The thing wich annoys me so much about him right now, is that he actually feels a little bit like a winner.. wich he totally isn't. For me he looked worse then everyone GSP has faced so far. I just want that he acknowledges that, thats all!
> 
> If you lose a ones in a life time opportunity and you really believed in yourself, you don't act like Hardy does right now.


To be honest Bob, I cant really argue with you speculating as to how Hardy feels after the fight. There's just no room for debate. I cant complain. I love to speculate also.


----------



## punchbag

michelangelo said:


> I'll admit that this argument is highly speculative, and difficult or impossible to corroborate at this point in time. Nonetheless, I believe the truth of the matter will be made known in the next few days, weeks or months.
> 
> I believe GSP was simply toying with Hardy. Hardy was defenseless twice and GSP could have seriously injured him on both occasions. Each time GSP eased up and let go, not as a result of Hardy's sub defense, but because GSP allowed Hardy to escape.
> 
> At this point, GSP is simply too good for the WW division. This bout was literally an exhibition of wrestling and JJ holds, without any attempt to inflict damage on GSP's part. It was a bit like the Fedor vs. Aoki exhibition "match" with GSP playing the role of Fedor.
> 
> GSP was in a tough position: if he cranks Hardy's arm and hurts a young fighter, he becomes branded "the bad guy." But if he lets go of the holds, he risks damaging the competitive credibility of the UFC by not going full tilt, the implicit premise of any fight, especially a title fight.
> 
> An interesting contrast to the Palharas match to be sure, at the very least.
> 
> Discuss.


Mate,are you mad? If you think G.S.P wasn't trying to finish the fight, look at the position of Hardy's arm in the Armbar, and the way he cranked the kimura. G.S.P even said in a post fight interview that he trained to break the arm, and when he applied the armbar he could hear a click sound, and thought Hardy must be made of rubber because he never tapped. I think from post fight comments, he released it as in his mind he'd done the best he could do with the sub and felt he must be doing something wrong technically as he discussed with his BJJ coach John Danaher after the fight, so decided to try another tactic. I think comments like this cast a cloud over what was a gutsy performance from Dan, and a dominant one by G.S.P.
If G.S.P did break the arm, I don't think anyone Could complain as it's the refs decision to stop the fight, and the person who's being subbed to tap if they can't withstand the pain. IMO, if G.S.p continued and broke the arm, then it would not have been his fault as by the rules he was not doing an illegal move. If however he continued to apply it once the ref had told him to release it, as with Babalu in the past then there would be a valid point.


----------



## BlacklistShaun

Beyond all the debate I give GSP a lot of credit on this fight no matter what the outcome. I remember between rounds his corner knew he was winning. I specifically heard them tell him "don't pass guard, stay in the guard". They wanted him to sit there and win on points by rabbit punching from the guard, which I think is BS. Thankfully GSP didn't listen and made several passes and really did try to finish that fight.


----------



## suniis

coldcall420 said:


> 642....just an interesting 1st post, clearly your here to defend GSP....he's my fav 170 PD fighter which is why I would be and am so critical of him.....
> 
> Lastly, your question was answered, regardless of your post count....:thumbsup:
> 
> Welcome....BTW:thumb02:


Wow that is a lot of posts! 

I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think it's fair to call GSP on him being a Martial Artist because he used his opponent's weakness during his last fight.

GSP has fantastic stand up also (he proved it against BJ) and will use his stand up when his opponent is a wrestler (Kroschek, Fitch)...

I am a GSP fan, no doubt about it. But I think what I like the most about him is his well roundednes, and his athleticism.

Oh and thank you for the welcome


----------



## swpthleg

I was thinking "damn, Hardy has some rubbery bendy Plasticman joints."

From the pictures in this thread, it looked to me like GSP wanted to take that arm home with him.


----------



## swpthleg

HitOrGetHit said:


> Man GSP sure is getting a lot of hate. He is an incredibly intelligent fighter. Until someone proves that they can beat him on the ground, then why would he change his gameplan? Like I said earlier, don't fix it if it isn't broken. GSP can strike and can use it when he needs it, but he didn't really need to use it much which is why we didn't see it. GSP has shown how well rounded he is already. Just because he doesn't wrestle, then let him up, then outstrike someone, then judo throw someone and finish with a submission doesn't take anything away from his well rounded game.
> 
> Summary: Until someone can beat GSP at his own game, what would he feel the need to change it?


Exactly. I can cry all I want about how bad I want to see GSP's karate, but at the end of the day I just feel privileged to have seen that unbelievable athleticism and iron will in action in the cage.


----------



## alizio

ppl dont get it yet huh...

gsp went for all subs and no GnP cuz he DOESNT RESPECT DAN HARDY.

he wouldnt dare try to sub fitch, alves or penn all the time so easily, he knew he couldnt.

he didnt pound on hardy cuz he didnt need to, to keep control like he did with the latter 3.

hardy was so easy to take down and control and his positioning isnt that good to avoid subs so GSP just did what was easiest and least physically draining for him.

if he respected dans ground game more maybe he pounds him a bit. but hardy was so useless down there it didnt matter.


----------



## Soojooko

swpthleg said:


> Exactly. I can cry all I want about how bad I want to see GSP's karate, but at the end of the day I just feel privileged to have seen that unbelievable athleticism and iron will in action in the cage.


As if the nice arse doesn't play a huge part also...


----------



## tripster

swpthleg said:


> Exactly. I can cry all I want about how bad I want to see GSP's karate, but at the end of the day I just feel privileged to have seen that unbelievable athleticism and iron will in action in the cage.


Absolutely right! The bottom line is he has completely dominated the last 7 fights against the likes of Hughes, Penn, Fitch, Koscheck, Serra...I mean that is a who's who list of MMA fighters. Think about it: Hughes recognized as the best 170 lb'er in his time, Koscheck an elite college level wrestler, Benn one of the best pound for pound fighters, Fitch has a record of 11 and 1, Serra a top BJJ fighter in the world!!! No inteeligent MMA fight fan can take anything away from GSP, especially not for a fight against Hardy. No disrespect to Hardy he put up a brave effort but he ain't in the same league. C'mon, lets call it like it is!


----------



## swpthleg

Soojooko said:


> As if the nice arse doesn't play a huge part also...


Icing on the cake, baby, icing on the French-Canadian cake.


----------



## limba

*Dan Hardy: ... I can become UFC world champion within a year*



> "I know I can become a world champion within 12 months.
> The thing about UFC is that, unlike boxing, a defeat doesn't put you right down at the end of the queue.
> This sport has many examples of fighters losing a number of bouts and then challenging for, and winning, a world title.
> My contest against GSP has tought me a lot and I will utilise all of the lessons I have learnt to make me an even better fighter.
> I can now go straight back into the gym and do my best to learn lessons from that latest fight of mine."


I don't realy know what to say! i think he is still under "the influence" of the very good praises he received after the fight, for surviving 5 rounds with GSP.
First of all i think he needs to work on his TDD, fact he recognised it himself. Also he needs to work on his grappling a lot. Even though he escaped 2 submission attempts against GSP (mainly because GSP made some techical mistakes imo), he needs to work hard on his jiu-jitsu. A guy like Almeida would submit him, no doubt.
Plus, i think he need more tough fights. He needs to beat some contenders, to build some confidence. And if he wants to be champ, he needs to be more aggresive. He needs to show, he realy wants the title. One thing i think he didn't show at all in the fight against GSP.

Any thoughts?

The whole article: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/ufc-and-mma/2010/03/30/hardy-i-can-bounce-back-from-gsp-defeat-to-become-ufc-world-champion-within-a-year-86908-22148568/


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

If GSP leaves the UFC to start training for the Olympics for Canada, then Hardy has a puncher's chance. 

Otherwise, no.


----------



## morninglightmt

Yea, if GSP leaves the WW division then he'd still have to not be taken down and ground to a pulp by Fitch or Kos and I don't see that happening. Even if he trains his wresting for a year straight he's still years behind these guys. He'd have a punchers chance at best.


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5

Yeah i think its safe to say that Dan Hardy will never be a UFC champion...


----------



## AlphaDawg

If every top 10 WW simultaneously gets injured then I think Hardy has a good chance. Otherwise, no.


----------



## jmarshall

Anything is possible. No matter how unlikely....


----------



## Spec0688

Dan "The CLOWN" Hardy!!!!


----------



## G_Land

There it is again!!!!!!


----------



## BobbyCooper

Soojo do you see now what I was trying to tell you??


----------



## alizio

i think in 2 or 3 years he may be able to win a round vs GSP. Maybe.

setting your goals high is no crime tho, gl Hardy.


----------



## Machida Karate

Yeah i thought Hardy was going to throw like a wild man the second the fight got to the feet because that was the 2% chance he had to win that fight....

Instead he was in extreme terror of the take downs, and didn't even throw punches...

I laughed at the people mocking Thiago Alves because he wasn't able to throw a lot of punches on GSP.... When it doesn't matter how good your striking is in MMA if u get butt raped on the ground for 23 minutes...

I dont see him getting passed Fitch, Alves OR Kos IMO.... But what else is he suppose to say?

Umm Yeah i dont think i can be Champion anymore, i think ill just be a challenger for all the other contenders.....

I mean who at there level would just give up after all they learned and not believe in themselves.... I mean Cmon I would...


----------



## Soojooko

BobbyCooper said:


> Soojo do you see now what I was trying to tell you??


Like I said. I see the same Dan Hardy I saw before the fight: Confident. I'm sorry he's not on the floor sobbing from the sheer humiliation. I know that's what you would rather see. But, that's not the case. Its just good old Dan being himself.

What exactly would you like to hear? Dan actually openly saying, "I was humiliated. I feel like shit. I'm not on GSP's level". Would that satisfy you?


----------



## limba

Spec0688 said:


> Dan "The CLOWN" Hardy!!!!


I wouldn't call him a clown. that's to rough. But he likes the spotlight. Before the GSP fight he talked a lot. And i see, now he feels like talking...again. I just wish he should have let his hands do talking in the ring against GSP!



morninglightmt said:


> Yea, if GSP leaves the WW division then he'd still have to not be taken down and ground to a pulp by Fitch or Kos and I don't see that happening. Even if he trains his wresting for a year straight he's still years behind these guys. He'd have a punchers chance at best.


That's right. If GSP leaves the WW division, Hardy would still have some problems reguarding his wrestling. Kos and Fitch are 5 classes above him in wrestling.
And even if these 2 would to leave the WW division, there's still Thiago Alves, Rumble Johnson and Paul Daley, who i think have better striking than Hardy, or Almeida who has incredible jits.
He could become champion...remember all it takes is a clean punch, but 12 months?!?!! NO WAY


----------



## Machida Karate

limba said:


> I wouldn't call him a clown. that's to rough. But he likes the spotlight. Before the GSP fight he talked a lot. And i see, now he feels like talking...again. I just wish he should have let his hands do talking in the ring against GSP!
> 
> 
> That's right. If GSP leaves the WW division, Hardy would still have some problems reguarding his wrestling. Kos and Fitch are 5 classes above him in wrestling.
> And even if these 2 would to leave the WW division, there's still Thiago Alves, Rumble Johnson and Paul Daley, who i think have better striking than Hardy, or Almeida who has incredible jits.
> He could become champion...rmember all it takes is a clean punch, but 12 months?!?!! NO WAY



I dont see any way of Hardy beating someone like Fitch... Especially a Fitch that wants to kill u... And Kos i think would be a more even fight, but id put money i Kos'es wrestling to win the fight


----------



## BobbyCooper

Soojooko said:


> Like I said. I see the same Dan Hardy I saw before the fight: Confident. I'm sorry he's not on the floor sobbing from the sheer humiliation. I know that's what you would rather see. But, that's not the case. Its just good old Dan being himself.
> 
> What exactly would you like to hear? Dan actually openly saying, "I was humiliated. I feel like shit. I'm not on GSP's level". Would that satisfy you?


That would satisfy me yes!

I just feel bad for him actually, cause he makes a Clown out of himself right now.


----------



## limba

Soojooko said:


> Like I said. I see the same Dan Hardy I saw before the fight: *Confident. I'm sorry he's not on the floor sobbing from the sheer humiliation*. I know that's what you would rather see. But, that's not the case. Its just good old Dan being himself.
> 
> What exactly would you like to hear? Dan actually openly saying, "I was humiliated. I feel like shit. I'm not on GSP's level". Would that satisfy you?


I think he has the right state of mind, there's nothing wrong with being confident. But i think he is a bit too confident.
He had a title shot and he didn't get stopped, like a lot of people thought he would.
He said, he now understands *why GSP is the champion*. If that's the case...he should get to work!!! Right away!!!


----------



## Machida Karate

'


alizio said:


> ppl dont get it yet huh...
> 
> gsp went for all subs and no GnP cuz he DOESNT RESPECT DAN HARDY.
> 
> he wouldnt dare try to sub fitch, alves or penn all the time so easily, he knew he couldnt.
> 
> he didnt pound on hardy cuz he didnt need to, to keep control like he did with the latter 3.
> 
> hardy was so easy to take down and control and his positioning isnt that good to avoid subs so GSP just did what was easiest and least physically draining for him.
> 
> if he respected dans ground game more maybe he pounds him a bit. but hardy was so useless down there it didnt matter.


I agree, and another interesting point i was thinking about, was on the Primetime with GSP when he was training with Renzo, Renzo straight told him to not focus on punches, just focus on control...

And im sure GSP took that to heart, and i know he told him a million other things, but u know if Renzo told him that when the cameras were on, then im sure he strongly installed that into GSP's head, its just an assumption on why he didn't throw punches, but i thought id throw that out there :confused05:


----------



## Mckeever

BobbyCooper said:


> That would satisfy me yes!
> 
> I just feel bad for him actually, cause he makes a Clown out of himself right now.


How is he making a clown out of himself? If he came out and said well i actually thought i took a couple of rounds off gsp and the sub attempts went even threatening, then he would be making a clown out of himself. Like soojokoo said, its the same dan hardy, full of confidence. Give him a break, hes setting himself high standards and will no doubt work his hardest to achieve his goals, as impossible as they may sound. Its better than the irritating forrest griffin attitude which seems to buy him a lot of fans by being negative about himself.


----------



## alizio

Machida Karate said:


> '
> 
> 
> I agree, and another interesting point i was thinking about, was on the Primetime with GSP when he was training with Renzo, Renzo straight told him to not focus on punches, just focus on control...
> 
> And im sure GSP took that to heart, and i know he told him a million other things, but u know if Renzo told him that when the cameras were on, then im sure he strongly installed that into GSP's head, its just an assumption but i thought id throw that out there :confused05:


 actually a pretty good point. I remember Renzo saying that.

Now im not a big fan of the style myself but its obvious with the way Hardy sucks so bad on the ground, it was the easiest, safest route to victory.

Ppl forget GSP was real close to sealing it up in the 1st round via sub. So he likely thought he wouldnt need the GnP to get a sub on Hardy.

I think hindsight he realizes he needed to GnP to soften Hardy up but at the time he was having his way with Hardy from the get go, i think he just went with what Renzo said, control before GnP and more of a BJJ style on the ground then a wrestlers.


----------



## Icculus

sure he will. And Vera will hold both the HW and LHW belts by that time as well. lmao at Hardy saying that after being completely dominated for 5 rounds and not able to mount any kind of offense.


----------



## Liddellianenko

It's just talk. 

Hardy only made five rounds because GSP wanted to show off his shiny new BJJ black belt and get a sub victory. Good thing GSP is the biggest noob BJJ black belt in the world (and I love GSP); both those sub attempts were TERRIBLE, like basic flaws in technique. He was trying to *pull* on the arm for an armbar, that's like BJJ 101 ... you raise your hips not pull with all your might, and at the wrong angle at that. 

And he didn't immobilize the body for the kimura. I've seen amateurs with better BJJ technique ... but of course GSP makes up for it with his stupendous wrestling and ground control. 

If GSP had quit thinking on that sub, Hardy's face would've been worse than Fitch post fight. It's kinda sad how people are hero worshiping Hardy for surviving two flawed sub attempts and zero offense of his own. 

It wasn't like Hardy was like "let my arm break, I ain't tappin" which people are making it out to be... that technique would get you nowhere close to breaking an arm or even putting enough pain to make a person not in a friendly rolling session tap. I've been in bad technique subs like that and it's easy to hold out. 

That's the reason why Hardy shrugged it off and punched with that same arm, not because he is some demigod that feels no pain. You do a sub right, there ain't a man alive whose limbs won't break or hurt.


----------



## alizio

theres these guys out there that like to take ppl down.

i think they are called WRESTLERS.

Dan needs to find a phone number for one of those kind of guys and maybe learn some TDD and maybe even some of that obsure artform himself.

i know training with world class BJJ guys that got schooled on the ground by GSP seems like a great idea.

i have an even better idea. how about trying to actually stop the takedown and working on that?? crazy, crazy stuff.

or you can send Paul Daley to go work with Serra, im sure if you only had a few more weeks with him you woulda pwned GSP on the ground.

When i watched that primetime thing i was laughing... he isnt training with wrestlers?? hahaha

Brits train dumb. from the little bits ive seen. maybe the UFC is trying to make it out like that but i dunno.

from rampage looking overtrained, to kongo looking clueless to bisping looking just like bisping..... and now Dan Hardy....

these guys dont train smart or fight smart. they wont win til they do.


----------



## Machida Karate

alizio said:


> actually a pretty good point. I remember Renzo saying that.
> 
> Now im not a big fan of the style myself but its obvious with the way Hardy sucks so bad on the ground, it was the easiest, safest route to victory.
> 
> Ppl forget GSP was real close to sealing it up in the 1st round via sub. So he likely thought he wouldnt need the GnP to get a sub on Hardy.
> 
> I think hindsight he realizes he needed to GnP to soften Hardy up but at the time he was having his way with Hardy from the get go, i think he just went with what Renzo said, control before GnP and more of a BJJ style on the ground then a wrestlers.


Yeah so true, why risk giving him an arm or the smallest opening, when your completely schooling him in every aspect on the ground


----------



## BobbyCooper

Liddellianenko said:


> It's just talk.
> 
> Hardy only made five rounds because GSP wanted to show off his shiny new BJJ black belt and get a sub victory. Good thing GSP is the biggest noob BJJ black belt in the world (and I love GSP); both those sub attempts were TERRIBLE, like basic flaws in technique. He was trying to *pull* on the arm for an armbar, that's like BJJ 101 you raise your hips not pull with all your might and at the wrong angle at that. And didn't immobilize the body for the kimura. I've seen amateurs with better BJJ technique ... but of course GSP makes up for it with his stupendous wrestling and ground control.


I quote Renzo Gracie for this one..



> I was going to go to Abu Dhabi very early, but I stayed to help Georges prepare. He looked very good in training. This is the first time I have trained with him, *his BJJ is very, very good* and he’s improved every day. He is amazing. I cannot believe how quickly this guy picks things up.


I doupt GSP is anywhere close to a BJJ noob. He trains day in and day out with the elite grapplers of MMA.


----------



## jonnyg4508

georgie17891 said:


> I have liked dan hardy ever since I saw him in cage warriors. I thought he put up a good fight and his sub defence was insane.


First time I opened up this thread. Just a laugh that people are praising his sub D. He got into 2 deep subs, how was it good sub D? Not taping and Sub D is 2 different things. His Sub D was TERRIBLE, his will not to tap was GREAT. Two different things. He needs A LOT of improvement! He won't get out of subs like that each time. Wasn't good defense at all.

I like Hardy though, I'm not a basher. Just don't think getting yourself in deep subs is good defense.


----------



## Machida Karate

BobbyCooper said:


> I quote Renzo Gracie for this one..
> 
> 
> 
> I doupt GSP is anywhere close to a BJJ noob. He trains day in and day out with the elite grapplers of MMA.



At this point in time what the F is GSP noob in anything?!?! He is a complete MMA fighter already, he is right there in world class in every aspect... Its just at this point he is doing a little bit of EVERYTHING if u watch the Primetime, and he is now starting to master how to make it all work together...

GSP in 10 years is an amazing thought..... With all these kids already trying to learn it all is an amazing thing too...

We are going to see TRUE Complete MMA fighters in 10 to 15 years


----------



## jonnyg4508

alizio said:


> i cant imagine how proud u guys would be if he actually landed a punch or did something offensively.
> 
> there might be riots on the streets.


Agree. I like Dan Hardy and think he is a tough guy down for any fight. But his performance hardly should make anyone proud. His ONLY bright spot of the entire fight was getting out of 2 deep subs. 5 rounds of NO OTHER highlights isn't anything to get excited about. He held up his end of being a tough guy, but his performance leaves nothing to be excited for in the future.

Coming in everyone knew, even he knew his only shot was landing 1 big blow, and he hardly even tried.


----------



## Soojooko

BobbyCooper said:


> That would satisfy me yes!
> 
> I just feel bad for him actually, cause he makes a Clown out of himself right now.


Clown with a capital "C" no less. Man, you are sooo mean!


----------



## BobbyCooper

Machida Karate said:


> At this point in time what the F is GSP noob in anything?!?! He is a complete MMA fighter already, he is right there in world class in every aspect... Its just at this point he is doing a little bit of EVERYTHING if u watch the Primetime, and he is now starting to master how to make it all work together...
> 
> GSP in 10 years is an amazing thought..... With all these kids already trying to learn it all is an amazing thing too...
> 
> We are going to see TRUE Complete MMA fighters in 10 to 15 years


It's a scary scary thought MK!



Soojooko said:


> Clown with a capital "C" no less. Man, you are sooo mean!


It just makes me sick..

but I stop now Soojo^^ I know you like Dan, so I like him too


----------



## AlphaDawg

Machida Karate said:


> At this point in time what the F is GSP noob in anything?!?! He is a complete MMA fighter already, he is right there in world class in every aspect... Its just at this point he is doing a little bit of EVERYTHING if u watch the Primetime, and he is now starting to master how to make it all work together...
> 
> *GSP in 10 years is an amazing thought*..... With all these kids already trying to learn it all is an amazing thing too...
> 
> We are going to see TRUE Complete MMA fighters in 10 to 15 years


GSP at 38 years old would most likely be retired, no?


----------



## Machida Karate

AlphaDawg said:


> GSP at 38 years old would most likely be retired, no?


U crazy? When was the last time GSP got hurt in a fight.... This dude is going to fight till at least early 40's


----------



## AlphaDawg

Machida Karate said:


> U crazy? When was the last time GSP got hurt in a fight.... This dude is going to fight till at least early 40's


Age can hit you like a brick in just one fight. Look at Chuck Liddell. At one point, an unstoppable champion winning all his fights by devastating KOs. After one fight, he was never the same. Granted this could also be the fault of Rampage or the evolution of fighters but it was mostly due to his age. I'm not saying it's not possible but I doubt he'll be as dominant in 10 years.


----------



## G_Land

But will a GSP be a thing of the past in 10 years or will he be the tip of the spear even then?


----------



## _RIVAL_

I agree with Hardy it was a razors edge decision..... with a fight that compeditive the rematch really could go either way....


----------



## G_Land

Hes gonna hit the gym, get his lats back ...and hes gonna come back with his boys from the Cobra Kai to kick some ass!!!


----------



## demoman993

Its unfortunate that Dan is believing in his own hype. He was gifted the title shot in the awkward ranking system that the ufc uses (marketing). Now he's getting all this credit for lasting with GSP when he did absolutely nothing offensive in the whole fight.

He hasn't beaten KoS, Fitch, Alves, Almeida, P. Thiago, or even Rumble for punchers arguments. KoS would lay him on his back, Fitch would lay him on his back too. Alves would strike with him, has shown better power than Hardy. Almeida would pull guard, or take him down and sub him. Thiago could submit him or could knock him out.

Hardy gets way too much credit for beating Marcus Davis and Mike Swick. Both those guys are highly overrated and have since been exposed as lesser fighters. I wish the Hardy nut-huggers would just own up to the fact that Hardy isn't nearly as good as hyped or as previously thought.

With that said, Hardy likes to bang and obviously won't give up. He has potential but definately has a long ways to go before he's even close to a worthy world champion.


----------



## suniis

tripster said:


> Absolutely right! The bottom line is he has completely dominated the last 7 fights against the likes of Hughes, Penn, Fitch, Koscheck, Serra...I mean that is a who's who list of MMA fighters. Think about it: Hughes recognized as the best 170 lb'er in his time, Koscheck an elite college level wrestler, Benn one of the best pound for pound fighters, Fitch has a record of 11 and 1, Serra a top BJJ fighter in the world!!! No inteeligent MMA fight fan can take anything away from GSP, especially not for a fight against Hardy. No disrespect to Hardy he put up a brave effort but he ain't in the same league. C'mon, lets call it like it is!


I couldn't agree more!



swpthleg said:


> Icing on the cake, baby, icing on the French-Canadian cake.


LMAO!!!:laugh:


----------



## machidaisgod

Machida Karate said:


> I dont see any way of Hardy beating someone like Fitch... Especially a Fitch that wants to kill u... And Kos i think would be a more even fight, but id put money i Kos'es wrestling to win the fight


IMHO I don't think he is in the top 20, his walk is light years behind his talk. All the fighters mentioned would probably beat him senseless, Rumble Johnson would kill him, and its an insult to Fitch or Kos to compare them to this talker.


----------



## Chileandude

Liddellianenko said:


> It's just talk.
> 
> Hardy only made five rounds because GSP wanted to show off his shiny new BJJ black belt and get a sub victory. Good thing GSP is the biggest noob BJJ black belt in the world (and I love GSP); both those sub attempts were TERRIBLE, like basic flaws in technique. He was trying to *pull* on the arm for an armbar, that's like BJJ 101 ... you raise your hips not pull with all your might, and at the wrong angle at that.
> 
> And he didn't immobilize the body for the kimura. I've seen amateurs with better BJJ technique ... but of course GSP makes up for it with his stupendous wrestling and ground control.
> 
> If GSP had quit thinking on that sub, Hardy's face would've been worse than Fitch post fight. It's kinda sad how people are hero worshiping Hardy for surviving two flawed sub attempts and zero offense of his own.
> 
> It wasn't like Hardy was like "let my arm break, I ain't tappin" which people are making it out to be... that technique would get you nowhere close to breaking an arm or even putting enough pain to make a person not in a friendly rolling session tap. I've been in bad technique subs like that and it's easy to hold out.
> 
> That's the reason why Hardy shrugged it off and punched with that same arm, not because he is some demigod that feels no pain. You do a sub right, there ain't a man alive whose limbs won't break or hurt.


This is full of win, come on. That's something i was taught in like my first week of BJJ.

I think GSP wanted the finish so much that he got over excited and forgot the basics when he saw the finish close.

That kind of stuff happens.


----------



## Soojooko

machidaisgod said:


> IMHO I don't think he is in the top 20, his walk is light years behind his talk. All the fighters mentioned would probably beat him senseless, Rumble Johnson would kill him, and its an insult to Fitch or Kos to compare them to this talker.


I would love to see this 20 dudes you're talking about. I reckon you would struggle to find 8. You need to turn down your exaggerator knob dude.


----------



## UKMMAGURU

Wow i guess most of the detractors completely missed the point of this thread. Dan Hardy is the first British fighter to compete for a championship in the UFC, he was a winner before the fight began in my eyes.

YES he was outclassed, YES he was unable to compete.. but how many of you actually thought he would be able to? Did you think Hardy would be able to stop GSP from taking him down? Did you think he would be able to compete with GSP on the ground? Did anything in this fight surprise you? If anything did surprise you it was probably that GSP was unable to finish him, it was probably that he refused (regardless if you think it's stupid or not) to tap.

Hardy did us proud because he exceeded most peoples expectations, we're not demanding something from Hardy that isn't there, we are just asking that he excels to his maximum and gives his all - which he certainly did against GSP.

If you can't understand why he did the UK proud then i guess you're probably on a different wavelength, no worries.


----------



## BobbyCooper

gazh said:


> Wow i guess most of the detractors completely missed the point of this thread. Dan Hardy is the first British fighter to compete for a championship in the UFC, he was a winner before the fight began in my eyes.


Dan Hardy accepted a gift! He should not have been there in the first place.


----------



## Mckeever

gazh said:


> Wow i guess most of the detractors completely missed the point of this thread. Dan Hardy is the first British fighter to compete for a championship in the UFC, he was a winner before the fight began in my eyes.
> 
> YES he was outclassed, YES he was unable to compete.. but how many of you actually thought he would be able to? Did you think Hardy would be able to stop GSP from taking him down? Did you think he would be able to compete with GSP on the ground? Did anything in this fight surprise you? If anything did surprise you it was probably that GSP was unable to finish him, it was probably that he refused (regardless if you think it's stupid or not) to tap.
> 
> Hardy did us proud because he exceeded most peoples expectations, we're not demanding something from Hardy that isn't there, we are just asking that he excels to his maximum and gives his all - which he certainly did against GSP.
> 
> If you can't understand why he did the UK proud then i guess you're probably on a different wavelength, no worries.


Pretty much this.


----------



## UKMMAGURU

BobbyCooper said:


> Dan Hardy accepted a gift! He should not have been there in the first place.


Possibly, but the WW division is stuffed with fighters in two catagories:

Catagory 1 - Already beaten by GSP.

Catagory 2 - Not _truly_ worthy of a title shot yet.

Dan Hardy falls into the second catagory, but to be honest i don't see many other competators that clearly deserved a title shot a whole lot more than Hardy.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Thats true gazh!

Thats the reason why GSP should not continue fighting at this weight class..


----------



## Liddellianenko

Ok I already posted this in another thread but I think it's more relevant here. All this talk of Hardy with the superhuman pain tolerance is a bit much for me.

Hardy only made five rounds because GSP wanted to show off his shiny new BJJ black belt and get a sub victory. Good thing GSP is the biggest noob BJJ black belt in the world (and I love GSP); both those sub attempts were TERRIBLE, like basic flaws in technique. He was trying to *pull* on the arm for an armbar - that's like BJJ 101 ... you raise your hips to apply pressure, not pull with all your might, and at the wrong angle at that. 

And he didn't immobilize the body for the kimura. I've seen amateurs with better BJJ technique ... but of course GSP makes up for it with his stupendous wrestling and ground control.

If GSP had quit thinking on that sub, Hardy's face would've been worse than Fitch post fight. It's kinda sad how people are hero worshiping Hardy for surviving two flawed sub attempts and zero offense of his own.

It wasn't like Hardy was like "let my arm break, I ain't tappin" which people are making it out to be... that technique would get you nowhere close to breaking an arm or even putting enough pain to make a person not in a friendly rolling session tap. I've been in bad technique subs like that and it's easy to hold out.

That's the reason why Hardy shrugged it off and punched with that same arm, not because he is some demigod that feels no pain. You do a sub right, there ain't a man alive whose limbs won't break.


----------



## jonnyg4508

gazh said:


> Wow i guess most of the detractors completely missed the point of this thread. Dan Hardy is the first British fighter to compete for a championship in the UFC, he was a winner before the fight began in my eyes.
> 
> YES he was outclassed, YES he was unable to compete.. but how many of you actually thought he would be able to? Did you think Hardy would be able to stop GSP from taking him down? Did you think he would be able to compete with GSP on the ground? Did anything in this fight surprise you? If anything did surprise you it was probably that GSP was unable to finish him, it was probably that he refused (regardless if you think it's stupid or not) to tap.
> 
> Hardy did us proud because he exceeded most peoples expectations, we're not demanding something from Hardy that isn't there, we are just asking that he excels to his maximum and gives his all - which he certainly did against GSP.
> 
> If you can't understand why he did the UK proud then i guess you're probably on a different wavelength, no worries.


I guess I don't see it. He hardly through a punch on the feet, the part of the fight that he actually had some sort of a chance. And he was nothing special on the ground. He didn't do anything in the fight to make someone proud other than just being there, not that many would do great things against GSP, but Hardy did nothing really. He survived for 5 rounds, so did Alves so did Fitch, but at least those guys gave an effort to get back to their feet at some point or throw punches. 

If by just showing up to the arena that night = something to be proud of then good for you and him. But I just don't see it.

I came into this thread to talk about his lack of sub defense rather than talk about if he made people proud. 

I just found it funny that UK people grasped at the only thing they could in the fight...."sub defense" because he didn't tap. But the sub defense was terrible to get into those positions in the first place.

If my favorite fighter came into a fight that he had little chance of winning, I wouldn't be proud over the fact that he didn't even try to go out with a bang. I wouldn't be happy that he laid on his back for 5 rounds not being able to get up, and also didn't throw many punches while standing.

I like Hardy, but lets be honest, his best win is Mike Swick, and that is looking worse by the day now. Tough guy, but he didn't really do anything to be proud...not that he was really capable of doing anything.


----------



## Liddellianenko

alizio said:


> ppl dont get it yet huh...
> 
> gsp went for all subs and no GnP cuz he DOESNT RESPECT DAN HARDY.
> 
> he wouldnt dare try to sub fitch, alves or penn all the time so easily, he knew he couldnt.
> 
> he didnt pound on hardy cuz he didnt need to, to keep control like he did with the latter 3.
> 
> hardy was so easy to take down and control and his positioning isnt that good to avoid subs so GSP just did what was easiest and least physically draining for him.
> 
> if he respected dans ground game more maybe he pounds him a bit. but hardy was so useless down there it didnt matter.


This. Again I'd rep but....sigh

Reminds me of Anderson Vs. Cote actually ... people start worshipping Cote for what was clearly an overblown sparring session for Anderson because he had no respect for Cote's bum striking. Because of course "Cote went 3 rounds with the champ before he injured himself! What a warrior!". 

Anderson was just trying out all kinds of fun funky standup stuff (like checking leg kicks with front kicks, sweeping mid takedown etc.) because he was in there with a dude that was ZERO threat to him. Same with GSP, he was just trying out his new BJJ stuff in a live fight against a dud on the ground, it was soo obvious. Put them in with guys their own level, then we'll see how much they toy around.


----------



## limba

machidaisgod said:


> IMHO I don't think he is in the top 20, his walk is light years behind his talk. All the fighters mentioned would probably beat him senseless, Rumble Johnson would kill him, and its an insult to Fitch or Kos to compare them to this talker.


He is definetly TOP 10.
But he has some tough tough guys in front of him.
And if he wants another shot he needs at least 3 more wins and with the WW division being so competitive, he has his hands full.
I'd advise him to finish his "honeymoon" (cuz this is how it looks like...these days after the GSP fight) and go find some realy god wrestling coaches and a good BJJ camp.
Otherwise, he will NEVER be a contender again.


----------



## diablo5597

alizio said:


> i think in 2 or 3 years he may be able to win a round vs GSP. Maybe.
> 
> setting your goals high is no crime tho, gl Hardy.


Not a chance in hell.


----------



## GSP15

good one... :confused03:


----------



## Liddellianenko

BobbyCooper said:


> I quote Renzo Gracie for this one..
> 
> 
> 
> I doupt GSP is anywhere close to a BJJ noob. He trains day in and day out with the elite grapplers of MMA.





Machida Karate said:


> At this point in time what the F is GSP noob in anything?!?! He is a complete MMA fighter already, he is right there in world class in every aspect... Its just at this point he is doing a little bit of EVERYTHING if u watch the Primetime, and he is now starting to master how to make it all work together...
> 
> GSP in 10 years is an amazing thought..... With all these kids already trying to learn it all is an amazing thing too...
> 
> We are going to see TRUE Complete MMA fighters in 10 to 15 years


BJJ isn't just subs though, it includes top control, positioning, guard passing, back control etc. and GSP was always a master at that kind of thing. I'm guessing Renzo is just blown away at how easily GSP does those things. 

But you can be an amazing BJJ positional artist and be weak as hell in certain specific subs ... like I'd been doing BJJ for 3+ years, yet I was horrible at armbar transitions and always ended up with guys slipping out and passing me. But most guys still thought I was good at BJJ because I triangled/RNCd like instructor level BJJ guys often.

The point is you can be a good BJJ artist overall and still suck at specific subs. I know what I saw that night, and it was bad armbar and kimura technique. GSP has excellent top control, back control and RNCs, but his armbars are weak and Kimuras iffy. I'm gning to try to make a GIF of GSP's armbar and a proper technical armbar actually and prove my point.

Also training and a fight are different, maybe the nerves and adrenalin made GSP get sloppy in the cage.


----------



## MMA-Matt

One year is too soon. I don't see him being able to close the gap between where he is now and where he needs to be in 12 months. Stating the obvious, he needs to get a dependable ground game.


----------



## adobostreak

*If Dan Mirglliota was reffing, do you think Hardy would have done better against GSP?*

he could have pushed the takedowns out of the way









Hardy/Gono


----------



## LOJ

adobostreak said:


> he could have pushed the takedowns out of the way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hardy/Gono


GSP would just take both of them down at the same time.


----------



## limba

LOJ said:


> GSP would just take both of them down at the same time.


:laugh:
Funny.:thumb02:


----------



## LOJ

Someone dial 9-1-1, Mirglliota and Hardy is gettin' raped in da octagon~! OMFGZ day can't "andle his riddum" OH NOOOOOZ


----------



## No_Mercy

Even though I am a big proponent for GSP a large responsibility falls on his shoulder for not putting him away when he had the chance decisively. Every man for the most part who have openly challenged the top four pound for pound have been dealt with in brutal fashion. You never hear any of em mouthing off after. 

1.) Anderson Silva
2.) Fedor Emelianenko
3.) BJ Penn
4.) GSP 

That's what GSP lacks. The killer instinct...once he gets that then only then can he challenge Anderson Silva.


----------



## coldcall420

I just think Dan Mirglliota is an idiot....thats all, but not having much mental fortitude Mirglliota probably would have given into the crowd and stood them up a couple times more...

Eitherway GSP would have won....


----------



## xbrokenshieldx

I am cracking up wondering what was going through Gono's head when Mirg to him out for the second time...


"Man... WTF??!!!"


----------



## robbiebp

I'm a UK fan and i was supporting Hardy coming in to the fight. I knew he didnt stand a chance, but some times you just want to hope.

I agree Hardy did the Brits proud, he showed as much if not more heart than the toughest in the sport. I'm not kidding myself technically though, Hardy was never in that fight. GSP is just on another level. When me and my friend were watching the fight it honestly looked like GSP let the kimura go out of concern for his opponent.

He showed great heart, his ground defence wasn't as poor as i thought it would be, but GSP was simply brilliant to watch.

I'd summarise the fight as great heart from one fighter and a wonderful performance from the other, in a terribly lopsided fight. 

The guy had guts.


----------



## TheNinja

LOL...Big Dan and his skin tight shirts..need I say more:confused03:


----------



## Squirrelfighter

gazh said:


> I'm very proud of Dan Hardy this morning, the result went as expected but ofcourse it wasn't as us Hardy fans were hoping (praying?) but he showed alot of charactor against an opponent that is clearly a class above everyone in the WW catagory.
> 
> I'm definately at fault for being suckered into a place where i really thought Dan Hardy had a decent chance of winning, but i guess when you want something alot it's easily done. Despite the result i'm proud of Dan Hardy, he did England proud and he did his fans proud, he couldn't be on GSPs level but he hung on and refused to tap when probably 95% of fighters would have, he showed true English bulldog spirit.
> 
> Thank you Dan Hardy.


I agree Hardy did decent against unsurmountable odds against GSP. I also thought he had a legitimate shot, until watching the Primetime and seeing that he was working really hard on groundwork and not much at all on sprawling...

I think that if he would have trainined differently, he would have had a much better shot. But thats just me. 

Anyway, Hardy showed tenacity in the fight and balls of titanium hanging out in that armbar(imperfect though it was). All in all, I'm now a Hardy fan and hope he gets another shot when he's ready for it. :thumb02:


----------



## Squirrelfighter

I think he needs alot of work on his sprawls. And an even huger amount of work on his actual groundwork. I would hesitate to say 24-36 months and he would have a legitimate shot at taking the title. No sooner than that.


----------



## funkyboogalooo

Spec0688 said:


> Dan "The CLOWN" Hardy!!!!


----------



## out 4 the count

As a Brit I have to say I disagree.

He can take no pride from having his ass handed to him for 5 straight rounds. He offered absolutely nothing, it was actually a little pathetic that it was a 5 round title fight.

The gulf in skill was immense and clearly obvious for all to see. GSP is only human, just like Dan Hardy. If it was me personally and I got beat by somebody else that badly I would be ashamed of my skills. You could put a real window licker in there who doesn't properly understand the concept of pain and would you be praising them for their spirit when they don't tap?

GSP was a class above, Hardy has a long way to come until he reaches that level.

That's not to say he can't reach it and hopefully taking a beating like that will motivate him to train harder. Still though, I don't think he actually stopped 1 takedown and for all the talk and the videos of him with the singlet I was expecting at least 1 decent sprawl in 5 rounds.


----------



## limba

funkyboogalooo said:


>


Is that Roy Nelson without the beard? )


----------



## funkyboogalooo

limba said:


> Is that Roy Nelson without the beard? )


LOL yeh


----------



## MMAUK

If Hardy had trained takedown defence with some wrestlers for 6 months before the fight, I still doubt he would've had a chance with GSP. 

GSP wrestling is world class...olympic class. He would never be able to stop the takedown. Maybe that's why he was training BJJ. 

It's obvious that GSP's ground and pound isn't lethal enough to finish a fight. GSP had come out and said that THIS TIME, he would finish it. He's been working his BJJ, had a black belt, so it was obvious that GSP was going to go for the sub. 

Take GSP out of the WW mix. I think you'll then find that Dan Hardy can hang with the rest of them. He didn't do any worse that BJ Penn, Koscheck or Fitch. And this was against 'the best GSP ever.'

There isn't enough evidence to suggest DH can't hang with the rest. I enjoy his banter and hype, it's refreshing and quite comical. 

Plus, the majority of the MMA fans are douchebags. They want to see standup fights, colour, excitement, knockouts and confrontation. People like Dan Hardy, Matt Serra, Brock Lesnar, Josh Koscheck are vital in drawing in the douchebags, and selling fights. Not everybody enjoys 25minutes of rolling around ontop of a guy.

It's just a little showmanship, like the good old days in PRIDE.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

MMAUK said:


> If Hardy had trained takedown defence with some wrestlers for 6 months before the fight, I still doubt he would've had a chance with GSP.
> 
> GSP wrestling is world class...olympic class. He would never be able to stop the takedown. Maybe that's why he was training BJJ.
> 
> It's obvious that GSP's ground and pound isn't lethal enough to finish a fight. GSP had come out and said that THIS TIME, he would finish it. He's been working his BJJ, had a black belt, so it was obvious that GSP was going to go for the sub.
> 
> Take GSP out of the WW mix. I think you'll then find that Dan Hardy can hang with the rest of them. He didn't do any worse that BJ Penn, Koscheck or Fitch. And this was against 'the best GSP ever.'
> 
> There isn't enough evidence to suggest DH can't hang with the rest. I enjoy his banter and hype, it's refreshing and quite comical.
> 
> Plus, the majority of the MMA fans are douchebags. They want to see standup fights, colour, excitement, knockouts and confrontation. People like Dan Hardy, Matt Serra, Brock Lesnar, Josh Koscheck are vital in drawing in the douchebags, and selling fights. Not everybody enjoys 25minutes of rolling around ontop of a guy.
> 
> It's just a little showmanship, like the good old days in PRIDE.


You pretty much said everything that needed to be said ever with that one. Hardy needs ALOT of time to be able to 1 stuff GSP or 2 be able to roll with him. I hope he does. And also yes, tons of D-bags, ton, and those who think there aren't many d-bags are in fact, d-bags.


----------



## xeberus

I think its possible.

Not likely, but possible.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

out 4 the count said:


> The gulf in skill was immense and clearly obvious for all to see. GSP is only human, just like Dan Hardy. If it was me personally and I got beat by somebody else that badly I would be ashamed of my skills. You could put a real window licker in there who doesn't properly understand the concept of pain and would you be praising them for their spirit when they don't tap?


You cannot compare a "window licker who can't feel pain" to a man who can feel pain. You ever been in an armbar? They fuckin hurt like hell! You can feel the ligaments stretching and the bones crepitating against each other. Its almost unbearable. That is why its so ballsy he didn't tap. He could feel the pain, and fought through it. How many fighters out there in the entire world have that kind of intensity and drive. That's why I respect him now.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

funkyboogalooo said:


>


If Facebook allowed moving gifs, I would steal this as my profile pic. :thumb02:


----------



## 2zwudz

You know I am like everyone else, I started to like Hardy after the GSP fight but now after saying that my original opinion was correct.


----------



## KittenStrangler

I've never been a Hardy fan nor will I ever but why are people saying this changed their opinion of him? I can find plenty of quotes by him that are inappropriate but this isn't one of them. It's just him being confident.


----------



## LOJ

Knowing that there is only ten seconds left in the third and final round, you think Mirglliota would have been a lot closer to both fighters; but instead hes to far away and runs in like a bull and knocks Gono across the cage. 

Perfect job.


----------



## Hawndo

Can anyone explain why he bull-rushed Gono twice?


----------



## Soojooko

*Dan Hardy: I may have lost Saturday night but I wasn't beaten*

Here's some more wood for the fire...

http://mmajunkie.com/news/18560/ufc..._campaign=Feed:+mmajunkie+(MMAjunkie.com+Feed)



> UFC welterweight Dan Hardy (23-7 MMA, 4-1 UFC) is the first to admit that Georges St-Pierre (20-2 MMA, 15-2 UFC) is a better grappler than him. But he's not convinced the champion is a better fighter.
> 
> He's not impressed with St-Pierre's performance.
> 
> "[St-Pierre] just convinced me that he can keep me on the floor for 25 minutes," Hardy told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com) on Wednesday from Charlotte, N.C., where he was visiting friends and supporting teammates Ross Pearson and Andre Winner as they prepared to fight at UFC Fight Night 21.
> 
> The welterweight champion dominated the British contender at UFC 111 this past Saturday in a fight that rarely left the mat. The affair bored Hardy, and he's learned a valuable lesson about where his grappling skills need to be from now on.
> 
> "It was frustrating," Hardy said. "I didn't feel like I had a fight. I've got no marks or injuries. But on the plus side, I know what kind of standard I'm up against on the floor, and I feel comfortable. With a little more training I can be a lot more offensive and a lot more dangerous down there."
> 
> It was St-Pierre's fourth title defense since he regained the 170-pound belt from Matt Serra, who took it from him in a massive upset victory at UFC 69 in April 2007.
> 
> Hardy wasn't the underdog Serra was back then – but not by much. Many pundits pointed to Hardy's lack of wrestling pedigree – and the absence of wrestling training in the U.K. – as a recipe for disaster from the fight's conception as UFC 111's headliner.
> 
> Hardy played with those expectations. Weeks from the fight, he released a viral video of him in a blue singlet as he ineptly wrestled about at a gym. He called a victory by left hook in official promos.
> 
> The toungue-in-cheek video proved to be strangely prophetic.
> 
> But going to the mat was not a fate Hardy thought he could avoid. However, his game plan hinged on the few moments before that shot came. Instead of a few moments, he got 22 seconds.
> 
> "The problem was that my gameplan was based on not stepping forward because if I stepped forward, he would change levels," Hardy said. "So I was trying to get him to commit so I could counter him. He just didn't want to play on the feet at all."
> 
> The athleticism and power St-Pierre is known for did not overwhelm the challenger as many expected it would. Though St-Pierre nearly ripped Hardy's arm off with armbar and kimura attempts, the challenger hung in the fight and said he was never in danger. The fight just plodded along.
> 
> St-Pierre apologized to the UFC crowd afterward for not finishing his opponent.
> 
> Hardy was left with a bitter taste in his mouth.
> 
> "I was saying this in the buildup to the fight – 'GSP' doesn't take risks in his fights anymore," he said. "He knew that my strength was striking and (within) 17 seconds of the first round, he shot in for a takedown. I think that says a lot about his approach to the fight game. He goes in there to win the fight and keep the belt and not to beat his opponent.
> 
> "You can only fight this way for so long before people start complaining. I think Saturday night highlighted that, and I think a lot of people have started complaining. I don't know how we're going to get around it, because as the sport is now, you can do that and win fights.
> 
> This week, Hardy heads to Disneyworld with his girlfriend. He also plans to attend UFC 113 in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, in addition to making an appearance at the UFC Fan Expo in Las Vegas.
> 
> "I do need a vacation, mentally, because it's been a real tough few weeks with the training camp and the 'Primetime' (TV special)," Hardy said. "I lost my granddad during the training camp as well, which was very difficult to deal with at the time. I need to take a step away and refresh myself."
> 
> Per the usual, Hardy said he'll wait to hear from the UFC before he calls anyone out. He believes he'll face St-Pierre again within a year if he continues to win fights.
> 
> "When I fight him again, I'll be able to step into the octagon with a lot more confidence," he said. "Not that I didn't go into this fight with confidence, but I'm convinced now I can beat him. With a couple more months of training and a bit of work in a couple of areas, I can get the job done.
> 
> "I may have lost on Saturday night, but I wasn't beaten."


----------



## Spec0688

is it really necessary for him to talk more trash after he just got completely dominated? Sure he doesnt have a mashed up face or any injuries, but he was *very* close to getting a messed up arm. 

I guess you have you keep yourself relevant somehow after a one sided loss like that, guess hes still trying to play the villain. I dont see Hardy ever stopping a takedown, You dont learn this stuff in a year, it takes YEARS. By the time he actually gets his skill level high enough to stay on his feet, GSP will be in MW.


----------



## alizio

just become a kickboxer then Dan.... oh you cant hang there either??

well good luck sir.

keep the "ppl complaining".

what are "we" gonna do to change it??

how about improving as a fighter.

i like he said GSP wouldnt leave him comfort zone and he was waiting for him to shoot.

yet he did NOTHING to stop a thing everytime GSP shoots. No knees barely any hand throwing etc.

you knew GSP was a better grappler then you?? yet mad he didnt wanna strike??

why didnt you prove you go out there to win and beat GSP at his own game, why did he have to beat u at your own game??

oh yea, i remember, you got no game.

I, for one am looking forward to watching Dan Hardy slip into medicority.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

I will say it again, until someone beats GSP at his own game, then there is no reason for him to change his game. Hardy's strength is his striking, GSP's is his wrestling and grappling, so common sense tells me that GSP should take the fight to the ground. Just my opinion. :dunno:


----------



## Spec0688

I will just use this as a quick example before this thread explodes. Look at what Chuck did, He was an amazing striker, but he also had really good wrestling, good enough to stop takedowns from the best in the business. 

You cant expect to be a champion with only one skill Hardy, Learn to become a better fighter instead of whining that you took you down.


----------



## alizio

ill just say this aswell 

Hardy and his fans who think that GSP couldnt have EASILY just made it a 25min GnP session instead of a BJJ session and leave Hardy a Fitch like mess, are DELUSIONAL.

The only reason Hardy looks ok and feels OK is cuz GSP wanted to show off his BJJ. 

so ignorant that some ppl think Hardy did such a great job on the ground that GSP couldnt GnP him.

Yes, Hardy is better on the ground then Serra, Penn, Alves and Fitch. You didnt know??


----------



## KittenStrangler

I could not agree more with what was said in this article. Hardy was spot on, start to finish (except when he said he could beat GSP in the future.) I was expecting some BS as usual but he proved me wrong. Hardy just gained a lot of respect in my book.


----------



## Wookie

It does kind of seem as though GSP doesn't even try anything else since his loss to Serra. But if it works why try and change it? Hardy knew better going into this fight, and yet he couldn't stop it. Quit f*cking whining about it already.


----------



## NATAS

I would like to have at least seen Hardy try to use some knee's when GSP shot in. Or try anything really.........He never let his hands go, he could not figure GSP out not even a bit.


----------



## Hiro

alizio hit the nail on the head, Hardy is lucky he didn't get the same treatment as Fitch, Alves and Penn.

Hardy is talking crap. GSP didn't just hold him down, he almost snapped his arm in two separate submission attempts. That's similar to rocking someone badly on the feet, twice. To imply what GSP did isn't legit in an MMA fight is stupidity, simple as that. This notion that GSP is somehow avoiding the fight by taking him down is ridiculous. A fight doesn't have to be standing to be a fight. It doesn't have to be GnP to be a fight. BJJ is a legitimate tool used to finish the fight, and it almost happened twice. 

Instead of criticising someone who dominated him for 25 minutes with wrestling and BJJ, maybe he should criticise himself. At least GSP almost finished the fight, what did Hardy do? He offered absolutely nothing the whole fight apart from a bit of heart in not tapping, which was as much down to GSP's technical errors as anything else. And now he has the audacity to criticise GSP and try to make himself sound like the better man. He's an average fighter with a sub par ground game, we all saw that.


----------



## The Horticulturist

Hardy hardly tried to do anything after all of his talk. 

GSP toyed with the guy, and he was beaten very convincingly.

Why do guys with great chins and heart have to discount their opponents? 
Yeah, he's a really tough guy, but so is EVERYONE GSP has faced. 
That toughness, means you can say you took no damage? pfffffffffft


----------



## Icculus

There are other sports if you dont want to learn to defend against the TD, but you wont do any better there Dan. 

IF YOU DONT DO ANYTHING OFFENSIVELY AT ALL FOR 5 ROUNDS THEN YOU DONT GET TO SAY THAT YOULL BEAT HIM NEXT TIME. 
He'd be lucky to ever get good enough to defend one takedown or get off his back once. what a clown.


----------



## hommage1985

HitOrGetHit said:


> I will say it again, until someone beats GSP at his own game, then there is no reason for him to change his game. Hardy's strength is his striking, GSP's is his wrestling and grappling, so common sense tells me that GSP should take the fight to the ground. Just my opinion. :dunno:


Not to mention GSP is a better striker than Hardy.


----------



## Vale_Tudo

Well Dan, he also proved you couldnt hit him... once... In 25 minutes


----------



## Squirrelfighter

Ha. Come on Hardy! I was starting to like you don't **** it up! He got tooled in the fight. GSP found his weakness and used it to dominate him. He was soundly BEATEN. End of story.


----------



## Hiro

Let's pretend that all GSP did was hold Hardy down, that's still better than being the one to be held down for 25 minutes and when it was on the feet where Hardy is supposedly best, he landed nothing and instead got punched several times by GSP.

Hardy's performance was nothing short of pathetic.


----------



## Curly

I have become a fan of Hardy after this fight. He showed heart, but if he really thinks he can train his ground game a few months then come back and beat GSP he is a fool. Hardy could train for a lifetime and not be as good as GSP is on the ground. If Hardy does not like ground fighting he should take up boxing.


----------



## Parabola

Hardly will never be a champ in the UFC...ever.


----------



## sworddemon

Gee, I had no idea this would happen. I thought a fight where the champ was an 8-1 favorite would have turned out so much differently. :confused02:

Why is it that strikers always bitch about being out-wrestled when wrestling is just as big a part of MMA as striking is? You don't see wrestlers saying "he may have out-struck me, but he was too scared to fight on the ground. I would have won if we grappled the whole time!"


----------



## Woodenhead

I was starting to become a Hardy fan after that fight.

Not anymore.

*sighs*


----------



## Diokhan

alizio said:


> ill just say this aswell
> 
> Hardy and his fans who think that GSP couldnt have EASILY just made it a 25min GnP session instead of a BJJ session and leave Hardy a Fitch like mess, are DELUSIONAL.
> 
> The only reason Hardy looks ok and feels OK is cuz GSP wanted to show off his BJJ.
> 
> so ignorant that some ppl think Hardy did such a great job on the ground that GSP couldnt GnP him.
> 
> Yes, Hardy is better on the ground then Serra, Penn, Alves and Fitch. You didnt know??


Well said! :thumbsup:



> "I was saying this in the buildup to the fight – 'GSP' doesn't take risks in his fights anymore," he said. "He knew that my strength was striking and (within) 17 seconds of the first round, he shot in for a takedown. I think that says a lot about his approach to the fight game. He goes in there to win the fight and keep the belt and not to beat his opponent.


Poor Hardy. GSP actually landed more strikes standing, hell standing Hardy landed only 1 freakin leg kick in the entire fight:
http://fightmetric.com/fights/GSP-Hardy.html

GSP actually landed 10 strikes/kicks standing according to fightmetric stats, which sounds about right to me. So no its not like Hardy had NO opportunities to strike in that fight, he just got tooled there too just like Penn did. Sure it has alot to do with GSP's ability to mix his striking with his takedowns, but if your ONLY way to win the fight is to land a lucky punch you should prolly try to go for that punch every time you are up.

Anyway, Hardy is taking the silly "GSP was gunshy" approach Serra did too. Now if your wrestling is so damn good that you can decide where the fight goes against ANYONE, why'd you keep the fight standing instead of taking it to ground where you have beaten guys with 10 times better ground game than Hardy's? Exactly.
I don't mind Hardy whining though, because finding an excuse to his loss prolly helps him to keep his head up and motivated vs. his next opponent. But on long run if you can't analyze your weaknesses rationally and realize why you lost you wont improve your game at all. Tito has the same issue with Hardy although on bigger scale.


----------



## michelangelo

Hardy is stupid. He needs to shut his mouth and work on his ground game. He has no offense, and no defense. That about covers it, right?

There are plenty of camps he can train with in the US that can offer him better preparation than Serra-Longo. How about Xtreme Couture, or perhaps Renzo Gracie can train him (ah, too late). 

Confidence is one thing, but for Hardy it's veering off into stupidity as he continues to gloat about not being submitted when in fact, he spent the entire night on his back, defenseless.


----------



## limba

> "With a little more training I can be a lot more offensive and a lot more dangerous down there."


A little???????? Is he for real??? I think Hardy is delusional, honestly... With *A LOT* more work..at least 2-3 years



> "*The problem was that my gameplan was based on not stepping forward* because if I stepped forward, he would change levels," "*So I was trying to get him to commit so I could counter him*."


If this was his plan...A lawyer or a prosecutor would say something like: "I rest my case".
I will only say: you can't become champion with that kind of attitude or motivation.

*Alizio* was right. This was GSP just wanting to show his new BJJ skills. If GSP wanted to make this a GnP feast, he would have.


----------



## Hiro

Hardy saying GSP didn't want to stand with him is like saying Hardy didn't want to grapple with GSP. Both true, but the big difference is Hardy failed miserably and GSP did whatever the hell he wanted.

Another difference is GSP is more than capable of standing with Hardy and being competitive, where as Hardy is completely incapable of being competitive on the ground.

Hardy needs to stop pretending a fight has to happen on the feet to be credible and go learn some TDD and BJJ.


----------



## towwffc

It's always dissapointing when I am trying to like a fighter then they have to say things that make it hard to like them. Just accept the loss and move on....Damn. Even if you didn't get a lot of damage you were still handled like a child for 25 minutes straight. You are supposed to be a world class mixed martial artist, what is there to be cocky about after that?


----------



## Canadian Psycho

I like Dan Hardy. I do. But imagine Thales Leites slamming Anderson Silva for not engaging with him on the ground in their bout. Such would be an incredibly ignorant comment to make, yet it's essentially what Dan is here doing with GSP. He's the champion. You were the challenger. As such, if you wanted to stand and bang, it was your job to make sure that the fight remained on the feet. You failed to do that, and you further failed to manage anything even resembling an ounce of offence on the ground. You lost. Five rounds to zero. In what was likely the only title shot you'll ever get, at least for the foreseeable future. Running away at the mouth may have seen you gifted a title shot once, Dan my lad, but I've my doubts lightening will strike twice in that regard. 

Don't lose the fans you gained via your heart to foolish and empty comments such as these.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

This is a big double standard. People like Hardy and Alves are praised for only standing, but people like Fitch and GSP and frowned upon for only wrestling and grappling. :confused02:


----------



## Icculus

HitOrGetHit said:


> This is a big double standard. People like Hardy and Alves are praised for only standing, but people like Fitch and GSP and frowned upon for only wrestling and grappling. :confused02:


Dont be lumping Alves in with Hardy. Alves has crazy TDD and ground game. Watch Alves vs Kos.


----------



## Hiro

Canadian Psycho said:


> I like Dan Hardy. I do. *But imagine Thales Leites slamming Anderson Silva for not engaging with him on the ground in their bout. Such would be an incredibly ignorant comment to make, yet it's essentially what Dan is here doing with GSP.* He's the champion. You were the challenger. As such, if you wanted to stand and bang, it was your job to make sure that the fight remained on the feet. You failed to do that, and you further failed to manage anything even resembling an ounce of offence on the ground. You lost. Five rounds to zero. In what was likely the only title shot you'll ever get, at least for the foreseeable future. Running away at the mouth may have seen you gifted a title shot once, Dan my lad, but I've my doubts lightening will strike twice in that regard.
> 
> Don't lose the fans you gained via your heart to foolish and empty comments such as these.


Exactly, well said.


----------



## Diokhan

limba said:


> A little???????? Is he for real??? I think Hardy is delusional, honestly... With *A LOT* more work..at least 2-3 years


I really doubt 2-3 years would be enough. There is very few mma fighters in world who use jitsu better than Penn and Serra do defensively (both are far behind people like Maia though when it comes to using it to finishing opponents though), yet neither could really do anything to prevent the asskicking from GSP.
If Hardy actually had sub game close to Penn's and Serra's we'd just see GSP smashing him instead of showing off his sub skills. Its not just that GSP has great jitsu, the fact that he can control the opponent and improve his position so well makes him a superior grappler even against people with far greater jitsu game than his. Basically jitsu isn't the thing Hardy needs to improve, he needs to become as athletic and explosive as gsp and improve his wrestling ALOT, because I don't think even Maia would be able to sub GSP when he is being held down while GSP knees him on the ribs.


----------



## M.C

Hardy will never beat GSP so long as GSP continues to take guys down and play it 100%, completely, without a single doubt no questions or risks, safe.

Hardy is completely right. GSP takes you down cause he doesn't want to risk getting knocked out, and then he spent 25 minutes down there and went for.. 3 submission attempts?

3 sub attempts throughout 25 minutes = boring, and he is completely right, people will and ARE complaining about it. GSP didn't even use his GnP to beat him up, he barely even touched Hardy on the ground, he just passed guard over and over and over again.

GSP is the better fighter no question, but he's not exciting and many fans are dropping off his wagon because of it.

I don't get why people are saying Hardy is wrong or for him to shut up? He's actually right.


----------



## joey__stalin

first time he kneed Dan in the head while he was on a knee. Second was when the round ended.


----------



## towwffc

I get what you are saying Michael, but when you are the one who got "raped" for 25 minutes I think you should just be happy that you didn't take alot of damage and get to work on improving what needs to be improved. Not talking more trash after you already failed to back up a single word of what was said pre-fight. And Hardy said ALOT pre-fight.


----------



## M.C

towwffc said:


> I get what you are saying Michael, but when you are the one who got "raped" for 25 minutes I think you should just be happy that you didn't get beaten and get to work on improving what needs to be improved. Not talking more trash after you already failed to back up a single word of what was said pre-fight. And Hardy said ALOT pre-fight.


I don't think it's "trash" when what you say is true.

Hardy states:

GSP didn't do much damage - true

GSP took him down and held him down there as he didn't want to risk standing - true

Fans are going to start shying away from GSP because he's becoming a boring fighter - fans have been doing this for a while now, and even more since the Hardy fight - true.

He's saying things that are true, they are no questionable, he takes you down cause he knows he can control you down there and doesn't have to risk getting knocked out, even if it's a 25 minute snoozefes, fans ARE dropping from his wagon, and he did not do much damage at all and only went for 3 sub attempts.

Trash talking is one thing, telling the truth is another.

I mean, if Hardy was to say he thought he won the fight because all GSP did was hold on to him or some stupid crap like that, then yeah, Hardy is retarded. However, Hardy is stating the actaul truth of what happened.


----------



## diablo5597

Wow, I didn't expect a professional mma fighter to be as ignorant as half the morons on this forum. Way to be d-bag Hardy.


----------



## towwffc

Yeah I guess you are right. But the only reason he is complaining at all is because he knows his only chance was standing. Is this really more GSP's fault for just being better, or is it Hardy's fault for not doing anything the whole fight? There was even a minute or two where they stood the entire time and this was Hardy's chance. Instead of taking advantage of it he gets hit with a 1-2 combo and smiles about it. Then continues to get mauled on the ground some more...

Like I said I get your point and I agree that GSP could have atleast done some gnp. But that doesn't erase the fact that Hardy got completely handled for 25 minutes. He said that is a long time to keep his hands off of GSP's chin. Then got tooled and didn't even take advantage of the chances he did have to strike. I guess it was lackluster towards the end when things kept getting repetitive. But as much as it's GSP's fault for continuing to do it, it's Hardy's fault for continuing to let it be done. I just don't see how everyone can blame GSP for playing to his strengths and not blame Hardy for obviously not being ready to even compete with GSP after knowing that would be his plan anyways.

It was boring not because GSP kept doing the same thing, but because Dan kept getting beat the same way over and over, and didn't stop it once. He spent more time smiling and trying to look intimidating than he did trying to mount some real offense.


----------



## M.C

towwffc said:


> Yeah I guess you are right. But the only reason he is complaining at all is because he knows his only chance was standing. Is this really more GSP's fault for just being better, or is it Hardy's fault for not doing anything the whole fight? There was even a minute or two where they stood the entire time and this was Hardy's chance. Instead of taking advantage of it he gets with a 1-2 combo and smiles about it. The continues to get mauled on the ground some more...
> 
> Like I said I get your point and I agree that GSP could have atleast done some gnp. But that doesn't erase the fact that Hardy got completely handled for 25 minutes. He said that is a long time to keep his hands off of GSP's chin. Then got tooled and didn't even take advantage of the chances he did have to strike. I guess it was lackluster towards the end when things kept getting repetitive. But as much as it's GSP's fault for continuing to do it, it's Hardy's fault for continuing to let it be done. I just don't see how everyone can blame GSP for playing to his strengths and not blame Hardy for obviously not being ready to even compete with GSP after knowing that would be his plan anyways.
> 
> It was boring not because GSP kept doing the same thing, but because Dan kept getting beat the same way over and over, and didn't stop it once. He spent more time smiling and trying to look intimidating than he did trying to mount some real offense.


You're using words such as "mauled", "raped", etc, and if that was the case, you wouldn't see me complaining or going with Hardy's statements. 

GSP didn't "****" or "maul" Hardy in any way shape or form. He did very, very little damage and only tried 3 times throughout 25 minutes to even attempt to finish the fight. GSP is a better wrestler and all around MMA fighter, HE chooses what to do in the fight, and HE chose to lay on top of Hardy for 22 or so minutes out of the 25 minute fight, and do almost nothing but control Hardy with wrestling/3 sub attempts.

It's not Hardy's inablity to get off his back or beat GSP standing or sub GSP off his back, as we all knew this would not happen. It's GSP's mindset that "it's OK to lay on top of a guy for 25 minutes, so long as he gets the win", that irritates people and is the reason why so many are hopping off the GSP wagon.

It has nothing to do with Hardy's skills, he should not even be in the same ring as GSP. It's GSP who made the fight go 25 minutes to be SAFE and not take ANY risks. He could have turned the fire one, he could have tried to finish more, he could have done this and that, but he chose to be a boring fighter (Sean Sherak anyone) and not do ANYTHING on the ground except 3 sub attempts, for 25 minutes.

Hardy states the truth, GSP didn't do anything. If you want to say Hardy is trying to twist it where Hardy is just so good that GSP couldn't do anything to him, then yeah, I can see why people are upset at Hardy. However, it still remains that it was GSP's fualt, his mindeset and his fighting style that had him last 25 minutes of boring with a guy who shouldn't have even been in the same ring as him.

That's why people are shying away and getting upset. GSP is better than this, he can be more exciting than this, but he chooses it himself not to be.


----------



## limba

Diokhan said:


> I really doubt 2-3 years would be enough.....



What i've said was: he needs at least 2-3 just to become more offensive and dangerous (like he wants). For me that's zero.
But that doesn't mean he will be any good. Just more offensive .
I think Hardy will never have a good ground game. 
You made a good explanation. :thumbsup:


----------



## Thelegend

sorry hardy you were beaten badly, its just amazing you survived which is what you are really being praised for lol. somebody with a good ground game and good striking needs to step up at ww and fast. kos, maybe paulo thiago need to fight gsp next-no more 8 to 1 underdogs please.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Icculus said:


> Dont be lumping Alves in with Hardy. Alves has crazy TDD and ground game. Watch Alves vs Kos.


I didn't say they were the same fighters, I was simply stating that they are praised for being strikers.


----------



## diablo5597

Michael Carson said:


> You're using words such as "mauled", "raped", etc, and if that was the case, you wouldn't see me complaining or going with Hardy's statements.
> 
> GSP didn't "****" or "maul" Hardy in any way shape or form. He did very, very little damage and only tried 3 times throughout 25 minutes to even attempt to finish the fight. GSP is a better wrestler and all around MMA fighter, HE chooses what to do in the fight, and HE chose to lay on top of Hardy for 22 or so minutes out of the 25 minute fight, and do almost nothing but control Hardy with wrestling/3 sub attempts.
> 
> It's not Hardy's inablity to get off his back or beat GSP standing or sub GSP off his back, as we all knew this would not happen. It's GSP's mindset that "it's OK to lay on top of a guy for 25 minutes, so long as he gets the win", that irritates people and is the reason why so many are hopping off the GSP wagon.
> 
> It has nothing to do with Hardy's skills, he should not even be in the same ring as GSP. It's GSP who made the fight go 25 minutes to be SAFE and not take ANY risks. He could have turned the fire one, he could have tried to finish more, he could have done this and that, but he chose to be a boring fighter (Sean Sherak anyone) and not do ANYTHING on the ground except 3 sub attempts, for 25 minutes.
> 
> Hardy states the truth, GSP didn't do anything. If you want to say Hardy is trying to twist it where Hardy is just so good that GSP couldn't do anything to him, then yeah, I can see why people are upset at Hardy. However, it still remains that it was GSP's fualt, his mindeset and his fighting style that had him last 25 minutes of boring with a guy who shouldn't have even been in the same ring as him.
> 
> That's why people are shying away and getting upset. GSP is better than this, he can be more exciting than this, but he chooses it himself not to be.


You really think he just layed there on him for 22 minutes and only went for 3 sub attempts and that's all he did? You do realize that he was fighting a professional mma fighter and not a child right? Don't you think that Dan Hardy may have done things to prevent GSP from getting submissions and GnP'ing him. C'mon man, he was trying to finish, trying to do some GnP and subs but Hardy did a great job surviving. Hardy fended off the GnP by covering up well and grabbing on to his wrists. Every time GSP mounted to finish with GnP he would give GSP his back where he was also good at defending. If you think GSP just layed on him to win then you don't know jack shit about what you are seeing. If he was just laying there it would have been stood up multiple times. Was it stood up?


----------



## towwffc

Michael Carson said:


> You're using words such as "mauled", "raped", etc, and if that was the case, you wouldn't see me complaining or going with Hardy's statements.
> 
> GSP didn't "****" or "maul" Hardy in any way shape or form. He did very, very little damage and only tried 3 times throughout 25 minutes to even attempt to finish the fight. GSP is a better wrestler and all around MMA fighter, HE chooses what to do in the fight, and HE chose to lay on top of Hardy for 22 or so minutes out of the 25 minute fight, and do almost nothing but control Hardy with wrestling/3 sub attempts.
> 
> It's not Hardy's inablity to get off his back or beat GSP standing or sub GSP off his back, as we all knew this would not happen. It's GSP's mindset that "it's OK to lay on top of a guy for 25 minutes, so long as he gets the win", that irritates people and is the reason why so many are hopping off the GSP wagon.
> 
> It has nothing to do with Hardy's skills, he should not even be in the same ring as GSP. It's GSP who made the fight go 25 minutes to be SAFE and not take ANY risks. He could have turned the fire one, he could have tried to finish more, he could have done this and that, but he chose to be a boring fighter (Sean Sherak anyone) and not do ANYTHING on the ground except 3 sub attempts, for 25 minutes.
> 
> Hardy states the truth, GSP didn't do anything. If you want to say Hardy is trying to twist it where Hardy is just so good that GSP couldn't do anything to him, then yeah, I can see why people are upset at Hardy. However, it still remains that it was GSP's fualt, his mindeset and his fighting style that had him last 25 minutes of boring with a guy who shouldn't have even been in the same ring as him.
> 
> That's why people are shying away and getting upset. GSP is better than this, he can be more exciting than this, but he chooses it himself not to be.


Ok he didn't maul Hardy but he did handle him like a child for 25 minutes. I don't think that the whole 25 minutes were boring either. In fact the first round was actually exciting with that armbar to end the round. In my opinion the fight didn't start to drag until about the 4th round. This is only because people realized that Hardy couldn't do anything to stop GSP, and GSP wasn't trying any new methods to try and win the fight. He clearly had his mind set on the submission, not a decision victory, but a submission victory. He was just going about it wrong.

I just feel people are being to harsh. If Hardy would have tapped to any of those subs, everyone would be praising Georges right now. You are right GSP was fighting safe. If thats what you want to call following a gameplan that plays to your strength. I guess Sean Sherk is the man for choosing to stand up with BJ even though he was getting owned. Yes the fight wasn't as exciting as it would have been if there were more damage or a finish. But I think it's overboard to hate on GSP so much for following a smart gameplan. I'm pretty sure he attempted more than 3 subs to. But he only came close to finishing on a couple. But all through the fight he was trying to grab Hardy's arm and take his back but Hardy was quick to get out of it.


----------



## M.C

diablo5597 said:


> You really think he just layed there on him for 22 minutes and only went for 3 sub attempts and that's all he did? You do realize that he was fighting a professional mma fighter and not a child right? Don't you think that Dan Hardy may have done things to prevent GSP from getting submissions and GnP'ing him. C'mon man, he was trying to finish, trying to do some GnP and subs but Hardy did a great job surviving. Hardy fended off the GnP by covering up well and grabbing on to his wrists. Every time GSP mounted to finish with GnP he would give GSP his back where he was also good at defending. If you think GSP just layed on him to win then you don't know jack shit about what you are seeing. If he was just laying there it would have been stood up multiple times. Was it stood up?


Are you kidding me? You're saying Hardy has a better ground game than Penn does? Than Serra does? Than Hughes does? 

GSP is good enough to finish fights on the ground, you have to be in denial if you think that Hardy has a good enough ground game to stall GSP's GnP to the point where he does no damage. If GSP wanted to put the hurt and fire on, he could have finished Hardy. Hardy isn't good enough on the ground to stop GSP's brutal attack if he actually does it. He chose not to do that, he chose to only pass when it was 100% safe, to only do any damage when there was no way he could get hurt. That's why the fight went 25 minutes.

You are blind if you think GSP couldn't have put the fire on and really took it to hardy the way he did Penn, Hughes, Serra. He has the ability if he wanted.


----------



## diablo5597

Michael Carson said:


> Are you kidding me? You're saying Hardy has a better ground game than Penn does? Than Serra does? Than Hughes does?
> 
> GSP is good enough to finish fights on the ground, you have to be in denial if you think that Hardy has a good enough ground game to stall GSP's GnP to the point where he does no damage. If GSP wanted to put the hurt and fire on, he could have finished Hardy. Hardy isn't good enough on the ground to stop GSP's brutal attack if he actually does it. He chose not to do that, he chose to only pass when it was 100% safe, to only do any damage when there was no way he could get hurt. That's why the fight went 25 minutes.
> 
> You are blind if you think GSP couldn't have put the fire on and really took it to hardy the way he did Penn, Hughes, Serra. He has the ability if he wanted.


If he only wanted to GnP he would have done it more, but he was looking for a lot of subs, waiting for openings, trying to set it up. There may have only been 3 very noticeable sub attempts, but he was looking for most of that fight. And no I don't think Hardy is better than those people, he just had a great night and was lucky GSP wanted to sub him more than he wanted to beat the piss out of him.


----------



## _RIVAL_

He got manhandled, tooled and outclassed....

If a loss in that fasion doesn't humble him and make hit go back to the drawing board.... than the hair dye has sunk through his skull and into his brain.


----------



## M.C

diablo5597 said:


> If he only wanted to GnP he would have done it more, but he was looking for a lot of subs, waiting for openings, trying to set it up. There may have only been 3 very noticeable sub attempts, but he was looking for most of that fight. And no I don't think Hardy is better than those people, he just had a great night and was lucky GSP wanted to sub him more than he wanted to beat the piss out of him.


So, it was GSP's gameplay to only try for subs, which btw only happened a handful of times out of 25 minutes, and do nothing else?

GSP isn't good enough at BJJ to try to sub people all the time, he isn't some BJJ master.

I have no doubt he could have put the hurt on Hardy, not only with his GnP but his striking as well. He could have even rocked him good, threw him down, then chocked him out/pounded him out. 

What he did was play it 100% safe, only passing guard and not taking any risks posturing up and throwing his hands, putting the hurt on.

That's the whole point. Hardy should be lucky? Hardy came to fight, he came to throw it all on the line, can you honestly say GSP did the same?


----------



## diablo5597

You exaggerate so much.


----------



## towwffc

Michael Carson said:


> So, it was GSP's gameplay to only try for subs, which btw only happened a handful of times out of 25 minutes, and do nothing else?
> 
> GSP isn't good enough at BJJ to try to sub people all the time, he isn't some BJJ master.
> 
> I have no doubt he could have put the hurt on Hardy, not only with his GnP but his striking as well. He could have even rocked him good, threw him down, then chocked him out/pounded him out.
> 
> What he did was play it 100% safe, only passing guard and not taking any risks posturing up and throwing his hands, putting the hurt on.
> *
> That's the whole point. Hardy should be lucky? Hardy came to fight, he came to throw it all on the line, can you honestly say GSP did the same?*


Wow so you really think Hardy came to fight and GSP did not? Even though GSP nearly tore Hardys arm off more than once, and was tossing Hardy around like a ragdoll? Just because GSP was trying for the submission doesn't mean he wasn't there to fight.

In fact Hardy wasn't there to fight, he was there to try and land that lucky punch. But all he ended up doing was smiling and trying to look intimidating. It looked like he was more focused on showing that GSP couldn't hurt him than he was on trying to hurt GSP.


----------



## M.C

diablo5597 said:


> You exaggerate so much.


How so?

Go watch the fight again. 95% of it is on the ground, GSP throwing up maybe a handful, at most, sub attempts, and did very little GnP, and certainly no GnP that would actaully do any real damage.

GSP could have chose to win this fight anyway he wanted, he's a lot better than Hardy, yet he himself chose to pick the safest path, that has lead him to yet another 25 minute fight, although this one much more boring than his others.

I was super excited for this fight. I have defened GSP's wresting many times in the past to guys who have said he is boring. I have brought up him beating Penn and Fitch, both being exciting fights and GSP totally turning the fire on and putting it all out there, amazing wins for GSP. I was ready for GSP to shut up some people, him to finish Hardy, or if anything, beat him down, seeing as Hardy has nowhere near the control on the ground GSP has, and GSP can do anything he wanted to thim. What I got was GSP being so safe that, for the first time, he was actually boring to me.

I'm a huge MMA fan, I defend "boring" fighters all the time cause I love technique, but this is just plain out disappointing.


----------



## swpthleg

Curly said:


> I have become a fan of Hardy after this fight. He showed heart, but if he really thinks he can train his ground game a few months then come back and beat GSP he is a fool. Hardy could train for a lifetime and not be as good as GSP is on the ground. If Hardy does not like ground fighting he should take up boxing.


He has gotten a huge boost from this fight in terms of fame; it'd be nice to see him walk the walk as well as talk the talk, and start intensive grappling training like he mentioned.

He's always going to talk crap. We're just lucky that it's slightly funnier than Bisping or BJ Penn type smacktalk.


----------



## limba

Michael Carson said:


> That's the whole point. Hardy should be lucky? *Hardy came to fight, he came to throw it all on the line*, can you honestly say GSP did the same?


Deffinetly!! Hardy should feel lucky, because GSP wanted to practice his BJJ.
After watching the fight, how can you say Hardy came to fight? To throw it all on the line?!! He didn't even throw a good punch!!! 
The only thing he threw, was this once in a lifetime opportunity to become champion. 
And i'm startuing to believe Hardy will never get a shot at the title in UFC !!!


----------



## HexRei

Michael Carson said:


> So, it was GSP's gameplay to only try for subs, which btw only happened a handful of times out of 25 minutes, and do nothing else?
> 
> GSP isn't good enough at BJJ to try to sub people all the time, he isn't some BJJ master.
> 
> I have no doubt he could have put the hurt on Hardy, not only with his GnP but his striking as well. He could have even rocked him good, threw him down, then chocked him out/pounded him out.
> 
> What he did was play it 100% safe, only passing guard and not taking any risks posturing up and throwing his hands, putting the hurt on.
> 
> That's the whole point. Hardy should be lucky? Hardy came to fight, he came to throw it all on the line, can you honestly say GSP did the same?


he landed 170 strikes on hardy.


----------



## M.C

limba said:


> Deffinetly!! Hardy should feel lucky, because GSP wanted to practice his BJJ.
> After watching the fight, how can you say Hardy came to fight? To throw it all on the line?!! He didn't even throw a good punch!!!
> The only thing he threw, was this once in a lifetime opportunity to become champion.
> And i'm startuing to believe Hardy will never get a shot at the title in UFC !!!


Hardy came to throw it all out there as much as anyone else fighting for a belt does. GSP fought to defend and keep it, not throw all his talent out there to fight and finish, to put the hurt on and take the much worse fighter out. He went 25 minutes with a guy who isn't as good as Alves, Ftich, Penn, etc, ESPECIALLY not on the ground. He could have pounded him out had he wanted.

See, that's why you guys aren't understanding, you're saying "GSP chose to practice his BJJ Hardy, so he should be lucky". Well, that's all fine and dandy, except becuase GSP isn't good enough at BJJ to actually finish the top guys, what we are getting with his fights is 25 minutes of him passing guard.

It's boring, and that's the whole point of Hardy's statements and the reason why many GSP fans, including myself, are extremely disappointed.



HexRei said:


> he landed 170 strikes on hardy.


Pitter patter strikes that aren't going to hurt Hardy/finish him. His shots were as imposing as Sean Sherks are when he's on top of you, back when he used to hold guys down.
Simple strikes to set up guard passing isn't exactl exciting, and that's the whole point here.


----------



## alizio

HexRei said:


> he landed 170 strikes on hardy.


 those dont count unless he gushes blood or has a black eye.

also sub attempts dont count unless u have the sub locked in deep. apparently. to say GSP went for only 2 subs all fight is ridiculous. Hardy just got caught very deep 2x. GSP went for many more then 2.

but who cares. lets just say GSP LnP'd for 25 min.

i regret him not beating down Hardy with GnP instead. Obv training with Renzo had him pumped for some BJJ.

i dont think "playing it safe" means you cant GnP. GSP has shown us many times his GnP is very safe.


----------



## HexRei

Michael Carson said:


> Pitter patter strikes that aren't going to hurt Hardy/finish him. His shots were as imposing as Sean Sherks are when he's on top of you, back when he used to hold guys down.
> Simple strikes to set up guard passing isn't exactl exciting, and that's the whole point here.


I found the fight very exciting, to be honest, transitions and setups are fun to watch, even when the sub doesn't sink. Then again I find grappling tournaments interesting.


----------



## M.C

HexRei said:


> I found the fight very exciting, to be honest, transitions and setups are fun to watch, even when the sub doesn't sink. Then again I find grappling tournaments interesting.


Look at Machida, I love Machida, and he hardly ever finishes guys and he isn't a very "in your face" fighter. I love watching people use their main strength in a fight as much as the next guy, it's entertaining to watch Maia throw down with his BJJ, cuase it's his main talent and he's extremely good at it.

GSP isn't good enough to just start finishing the top guys with his BJJ, and we will continue to get 25 minute fights like this, where he only attempts to finish a handful of times outside of passing guard/transitions.

What's frustrating as a GSP fan, is that he could be using his striking/gnp to be exciting, throw it all out there and finish guys, but he's choosing not to. That's the thing that's disappointing and turning a lot of guys off.


----------



## Thelegend

who would think this would quickly turn into a breakdown of the fight? hardy needs to train his ground game, period. he got the fast track to a title shot and had no answer or game-plan to keep it standing. gsp did not show up and do what he normally does, beating up his opponents. he wanted to get the sub could not get it and when his corner told him to pound him out rather than go for the sub he didn't listen. so the fight ended up surprisingly going 25 min. 

koscheck was complaining hardy did not deserve a shot and he was right, unfortunately gsp for whatever reason chose to go for subs the whole fight and hardy made it out of the cage with no visible damage done and still able to talk smack about gsp later. never again should the ufc fast-track guys to the title unless the division is short on challengers. ww has a lot of fighters that have better wins than hardy and hardy should stop talking and train with some better guys for at least a year to get some real tdd. i doubht he would get past kos,fitch,alves or thiago,daley,johnson with the tools he has right now.


----------



## diablo5597

Michael Carson said:


> Look at Machida, I love Machida, and he hardly ever finishes guys and he isn't a very "in your face" fighter. I love watching people use their main strength in a fight as much as the next guy, it's entertaining to watch Maia throw down with his BJJ, cuase it's his main talent and he's extremely good at it.
> 
> *GSP isn't good enough to just start finishing the top guys with his BJJ, and we will continue to get 25 minute fights like this, where he only attempts to finish a handful of times outside of passing guard/transitions.*
> 
> What's frustrating as a GSP fan, is that he could be using his striking/gnp to be exciting, throw it all out there and finish guys, but he's choosing not to. That's the thing that's disappointing and turning a lot of guys off.


GSP has beaten good guys with submissions. Also, how can you say he's not good enough when he was as close as you can possibly be to doing it 2 times to Dan Hardy. 

Also, I didn't know you could see the future. Thanks for letting us know GSP's future fights will be the same as this one. Next time put spoiler tags on it. Does Fedor end up joining the UFC some day?


----------



## Hiro

Michael Carson said:


> Hardy will never beat GSP so long as GSP continues to take guys down and play it 100%, completely, without a single doubt no questions or risks, safe.
> 
> Hardy is completely right. GSP takes you down cause he doesn't want to risk getting knocked out, and then he spent 25 minutes down there and went for.. 3 submission attempts?
> 
> 3 sub attempts throughout 25 minutes = boring, and he is completely right, people will and ARE complaining about it. GSP didn't even use his GnP to beat him up, he barely even touched Hardy on the ground, he just passed guard over and over and over again.
> 
> GSP is the better fighter no question, but he's not exciting and many fans are dropping off his wagon because of it.
> *
> I don't get why people are saying Hardy is wrong or for him to shut up? He's actually right.*


This is why...



> I was saying this in the buildup to the fight – *'GSP' doesn't take risks in his fights anymore*," he said. "He knew that my strength was striking and (within) 17 seconds of the first round, he shot in for a takedown.* I think that says a lot about his approach to the fight game. He goes in there to win the fight and keep the belt and not to beat his opponent.*
> 
> "You can only fight this way for so long before people start complaining. I think Saturday night highlighted that, and I think a lot of people have started complaining. *I don't know how we're going to get around it, because as the sport is now, you can do that and win fights.*


Please do explain this crap. 

To summarise for you, Hardy either said or implied that:

a) GSP does not fight to 'beat' his opponent
b) Striking is somehow the only credible way to fight
c) 'We' need to 'get around it'

All three points are complete bullshit :thumb02:


----------



## aerius

Michael Carson said:


> See, that's why you guys aren't understanding, you're saying "GSP chose to practice his BJJ Hardy, so he should be lucky". Well, that's all fine and dandy, except becuase GSP isn't good enough at BJJ to actually finish the top guys, what we are getting with his fights is 25 minutes of him passing guard.
> 
> It's boring, and that's the whole point of Hardy's statements and the reason why many GSP fans, including myself, are extremely disappointed.


I gotta agree here, after a couple rounds of going nowhere with subs & sub attempts, how about doing something that actually works?

There were so many chances for GSP to put knees into Hardy's ribs & kidneys from side control, not to mention hammerfisting him in the face and dropping some elbows on his head. Put the pain & pressure on Hardy to force a mistake then try a sub if there's a opening, then get back to pounding on him and softening him up some more if the sub fails.

It's not like Hardy was going to get back on his feet or pull off a miracle sub if GSP worked his ground & pound the way he usually does, which is why I'm still wondering what the hell GSP was doing that night.


----------



## adobostreak

joey__stalin said:


> first time he kneed Dan in the head while he was on a knee. Second was when the round ended.


and both times gono was pushed unnecessarily.


----------



## adobostreak

hardy is right.


----------



## diablo5597

adobostreak said:


> hardy is right.


Good argument. Go watch K1. MMA isn't for you.


----------



## Diokhan

Michael Carson said:


> Look at Machida, I love Machida, and he hardly ever finishes guys and he isn't a very "in your face" fighter. I love watching people use their main strength in a fight as much as the next guy, it's entertaining to watch Maia throw down with his BJJ, cuase it's his main talent and he's extremely good at it.
> 
> GSP isn't good enough to just start finishing the top guys with his BJJ, and we will continue to get 25 minute fights like this, where he only attempts to finish a handful of times outside of passing guard/transitions.
> 
> What's frustrating as a GSP fan, is that he could be using his striking/gnp to be exciting, throw it all out there and finish guys, but he's choosing not to. That's the thing that's disappointing and turning a lot of guys off.


GSP subbed Hughes, which is something Gracie wasn't able to do.
Anyway people enjoy different types of fights, personally I enjoy watching GSP dominate Hardy for 5 rounds way more than I do watching him strike with Hardy and finishing him in round 1. It also tells more about the skill differences and leaves no "How had this fight gone if Hardy hadn't been caught by that punch?" -like questions unanswered.

Perhaps the fact that Hardy was so bad is what made the fight more boring than for example Fitch and Penn fights. It really takes 2 people to make a good fight basically. I admit the fight isn't #1 in my list of favourite gsp fights, but in my opinion only the people who don't enjoy the ground game on mma can call it boring. We saw some great transitions and submission attempts on it and all it really lacked was Hardy tapping.

By the way, is it just me or did Jackson's game plan sound bad this time around? He kept telling GSP to sit in Hardy's guard and G&P instead of passing until there is 30 seconds left. When you can pass the guard so easily why not move atleast to side control and drop some elbows/knees/etc. from there while looking for those sub openings? It seemed like Jackson wanted to play it way safer than GSP did, and for once I was actually a bit disappointed with Jackson's cornering. Good GSP didn't follow it that blindly.


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> I just think Dan Mirglliota is an idiot....thats all, but not having much mental fortitude Mirglliota probably would have given into the crowd and stood them up a couple times more...
> 
> Eitherway GSP would have won....


GSP would have just taken Hardy right back down, it's not like GSP was even working for takedowns in that fight, Hardy was laying down like a high school cheerleader.


----------



## M.C

Hiro said:


> This is why...
> 
> 
> 
> Please do explain this crap.
> 
> To summarise for you, Hardy either said or implied that:
> 
> a) GSP does not fight to 'beat' his opponent
> b) Striking is somehow the only credible way to fight
> c) 'We' need to 'get around it'
> 
> All three points are complete bullshit :thumb02:


Hardy is stating that many fans, even myself, who is a HUGE MMA fan and I love technique, are going to start shying away from GSP because, as much of a fan of GSP we are and as much technique we like, it's hard to watch a guy like GSP use BJJ, when he isn't good enough to finish the top guys with, and be boring, when he COULD, he very well could, no doubt, use his striking/GnP/control/wrestling in a way that he can do some serious damage and finish.

It's not about "strking vs ground game", it's about using your strengths and being exciting. If GSP would have thrown down against Hardy like he did against Penn, do you think that any single person would be complaining, like, at all? GSP had chances to throw knees, elbows, posture up and throw huge shots, damage him, slam him, throw him around, he could have really put the hurt on, took some risks, and more than likely finish an exciting, brutal GSP beatdown fight.


----------



## Thelegend

Diokhan said:


> GSP subbed Hughes, which is something Gracie wasn't able to do.
> Anyway people enjoy different types of fights,* personally I enjoy watching GSP dominate Hardy for 5 rounds way more than I do watching him strike with Hardy and finishing him in round 1. It also tells more about the skill differences and leaves no "How had this fight gone if Hardy hadn't been caught by that punch?" -like questions unanswered.*
> 
> Perhaps the fact that Hardy was so bad is what made the fight more boring than for example Fitch and Penn fights. It really takes 2 people to make a good fight basically. I admit the fight isn't #1 in my list of favourite gsp fights, but *in my opinion only the people who don't enjoy the ground game on mma can call it boring.* We saw some great transitions and submission attempts on it and all it really lacked was Hardy tapping.
> 
> By the way, is it just me or did Jackson's game plan sound bad this time around? He kept telling GSP to sit in Hardy's guard and G&P instead of passing until there is 30 seconds left. When you can pass the guard so easily why not move atleast to side control and drop some elbows/knees/etc. from there while looking for those sub openings? It seemed like Jackson wanted to play it way safer than GSP did, and for once I was actually a bit disappointed with Jackson's cornering. Good GSP didn't follow it that blindly.


1.really i have trouble believing that at all. you rather gsp go to a decision than destroy hardy in striking, his best;possibly only strength and shut hardy down? not only would that send a message, it would shut down the talk of him not being a fighter and only a wrestler. how does a 5 round fight not leave questions> if he had stood with hardy would hardy get the lucky strike? this fight was already overwhelmingly thought to be in the bag for gsp however he wanted to take hardy out.

2.hardy held on for 25 minutes while gsp could not finish him off. i dont like grappling or the ground game because i found it boring to see hardy hold on for dear life while the better fighter kept trying to sub him without success?:confused02:


----------



## bazmagoo

English fighters making excuses for why they lost is as common as ******** dating their cousins, it happens all the time. The day I hear an English fighter admit they lost to a better fighter I will keel over and die.

I'm already taking bets on what excuses they'll come up with when their soccer team chokes in this years world cup.


----------



## Woodenhead

It's funny. For GSP this was basically a sparring session to practice BJJ. He's _that_ dominant that he can actually do that for a championship fight. But hey there's always room for complaints.

Some say Hardy got mauled.
Some say GSP just laid on top.
Neither side fo that argument will be 100% settled in many people's minds. Have fun banging your heads against that wall, though.


----------



## Hiro

aerius said:


> I gotta agree here, after a couple rounds of going nowhere with subs & sub attempts, how about doing something that actually works?
> 
> There were so many chances for GSP to put knees into Hardy's ribs & kidneys from side control, not to mention hammerfisting him in the face and dropping some elbows on his head. Put the pain & pressure on Hardy to force a mistake then try a sub if there's a opening, then get back to pounding on him and softening him up some more if the sub fails.
> 
> It's not like Hardy was going to get back on his feet or pull off a miracle sub if GSP worked his ground & pound the way he usually does, which is why I'm still wondering what the hell GSP was doing that night.


I too was frustrated that GSP could be so dominant but not finish and didn't rain some punishment down on Hardy. But Hardy is implying GSP didn't turn up to fight, didn't aim to finish it, and basically implied GSP didn't fight in a credible manner. He spent 25 minutes trying to sub Hardy. 

Yeah it would have been better to see some GnP or for GSP to get the finish, but this notion that it is somehow not a legit way to fight is bullshit. It's even worse knowing that GSP has never done that before and usually just pounds on the guy's face the whole time, yet people are talking like GSP goes in a plays jits for 25 minutes, with no damage, every single fight. That's just not true.


----------



## The_Nightmare

diablo5597 said:


> Good argument. Go watch K1. MMA isn't for you.


i hate when people say that. if you want to watch two guys dry hump for 25 minutes go watch wrestling and bjj tournaments or maybe even WWE. i honestly believe anyone who says they would rather watch bjj and wrestling over two guys punching and kicking the shit out of each other is a liar.

every sport has boring aspects to it. MMA is no different. i admit that it can be interesting watching masterful ground game. i actually have massive respect for GSP as an athlete and think people have maybe jumped on his back a little to quickly. i honestly think he was scared of hardys stand up considering he has a lot of power and a granite chin. 

all these delusional MMA snobs "true MMA fans" need to stop talking shit. everyone prefers to watch a high scoring game in soccer, basketball, football etc. put it this way. how many matches that will be remembered as classics are going to be ground battles? my guess is not many.


----------



## Hiro

Michael Carson said:


> Hardy is stating that many fans, even myself, who is a HUGE MMA fan and I love technique, are going to start shying away from GSP because, as much of a fan of GSP we are and as much technique we like, it's hard to watch a guy like GSP use BJJ, when he isn't good enough to finish the top guys with, and be boring, when he COULD, he very well could, no doubt, use his striking/GnP/control/wrestling in a way that he can do some serious damage and finish.
> 
> It's not about "strking vs ground game", it's about using your strengths and being exciting. If GSP would have thrown down against Hardy like he did against Penn, do you think that any single person would be complaining, like, at all? GSP had chances to throw knees, elbows, posture up and throw huge shots, damage him, slam him, throw him around, he could have really put the hurt on, took some risks, and more than likely finish an exciting, brutal GSP beatdown fight.


This is the first time GSP has fought like that. Well done, you're saying a fighter is losing your support because he didn't do what he usually does.

I don't deny GSP could have been more exciting. Heck even playing it safe it could have been more exciting with some GnP. That's not the issue though.

It is striking vs ground game because Hardy as good as implied that the ground game isn't credible when he said '17 seconds into the fight... yada yada yada'.

I can see what Hardy's saying and you're agreeing with it. It's ignorant.

Next time GSP fights he'll be back toputting the elbows into the face of the poor soul he's fighting. Will you be back on board then? I don't see how one fight means fans will start losing interest in GSP, regardless of how exciting it was or was not.


----------



## No_Mercy

I have to say Dan Hardy is as asinine as it gets...

Send Almeida, Koschek, or Fitch his way...


----------



## diablo5597

The_Nightmare said:


> i hate when people say that. if you want to watch two guys dry hump for 25 minutes go watch wrestling and bjj tournaments or maybe even WWE. i honestly believe anyone who says they would rather watch bjj and wrestling over two guys punching and kicking the shit out of each other is a liar.
> 
> every sport has boring aspects to it. MMA is no different. i admit that it can be interesting watching masterful ground game. i actually have massive respect for GSP as an athlete and think people have maybe jumped on his back a little to quickly. i honestly think he was scared of hardys stand up considering he has a lot of power and a granite chin.
> 
> all these delusional MMA snobs "true MMA fans" need to stop talking shit. everyone prefers to watch a high scoring game in soccer, basketball, football etc. put it this way. how many matches that will be remembered as classics are going to be ground battles? my guess is not many.


Well maybe you should go watch K1 then. It seems to me like you like the stand up aspect of mma and think the ground aspect of mma is "boring". K1 is mma without that stupid boring ground aspect of it. They took it out for you. There's nothing wrong with K1, i like it. 

As far as how many classic ground battles are there... a lot!


----------



## bazmagoo

*Frankie Edgar vs Tyson Griffin*

That was a classic ground battle, won fight of the night if I remember correctly.


----------



## Maaz

wow, this is my first time seeing this, how ridiculous.


----------



## machidaisgod

me too, how is this man reffing?, he would not qualify as a crossing guard.


----------



## Woodenhead

The_Nightmare said:


> high scoring game in soccer


Error.


----------



## The_Nightmare

diablo5597 said:


> Well maybe you should go watch K1 then. It seems to me like you like the stand up aspect of mma and think the ground aspect of mma is "boring". K1 is mma without that stupid boring ground aspect of it. They took it out for you. There's nothing wrong with K1, i like it.
> 
> As far as how many classic ground battles are there... a lot!


but in K1 once someone hits the ground a 10 count is administered instead of more pain. and for the record i don't think the ground game is boring. i just think its more boring than stand up. i just don't like people talking like you have to love watching people dry hump to be a true MMA fan. also maybe in your opinion there has been lots of classic ground battles but very few are going to be universally remembered as classics.



Woodenhead said:


> Error.


obviously in terms of each sport.


----------



## adobostreak

diablo5597 said:


> Good argument. Go watch K1. MMA isn't for you.


Good argument. Go watch college wrestling. MMA isn't for you.


----------



## diablo5597

The_Nightmare said:


> but in K1 once someone hits the ground a 10 count is administered instead of more pain. and for the record i don't think the ground game is boring. i just think its more boring than stand up. i just don't like people talking like you have to love watching people dry hump to be a true MMA fan. also maybe in your opinion there has been lots of classic ground battles but very few are going to be universally remembered as classics.


Using the term dry hump for when it goes to the ground makes you look ignorant. If you think what GSP was doing was dry humping the you are retarded.


----------



## swpthleg

Let's keep the discussion civil.

Either way the term "dry hump" is bandied about way too much. It's, kind of like, a shortcut to thinking. (thank you Val Kilmer as Jim Morrison).


----------



## swpthleg

Please. Those bullrushes were beautiful to watch. I think Trigg just lost his "Twinkletoes" title.


----------



## Guy Incognito

if you watch the fight without commentary dan m is the referee


----------



## InAweOfFedor

I like Hardy and wanted him to win, but I always pick against GSP (because he is so dominant), but I realise GSP is the best WW in the world and it will take something special to beat him.

If Hardy wants to be a better fighter and have a chance against GSP he needs to change camps. If I were him I would switch to a camp like AKA (even though Swick wants to fight him again) but at least there your gonna learn take down defence... Wrestling Fitch, Kos and Cain everyday would make him a much more dangerous fighter. This would improve his TDD, and he would get put on his back everyday and have the shit beat out of him but it would make him a badass in my opinion. 

If he wants to be champ, he needs to shut his mouth and go to AKA Extreme Couture or a camp similar and put the work in, because no UK fighter is gonna win the belt and hold it without developing wrestling skills. The north american fighters are light years ahead in that regard so if he really wants to be the best he MUST make a camp change.

If he doesn't do this, then he won't be the NEXT WORLD CHAMP, he'll simply be THE NEXT MICHAEL BISPING!

Hardy has heart and balls but does he have brains?


----------



## FrodoFraggins

By the time Hardy deserves a rematch, GSP will already be fighting MW's. Hardy is not a particularly good *Mixed* Martial artist. 

Comments like this just make him out to be a sore loser. He clearly had no gameplan for GSP and demonstrated zero TTD skill. GSP manhandled him the entire fight and he's understandably frustrated.


----------



## Parabola

bazmagoo said:


> That was a classic ground battle, won fight of the night if I remember correctly.


This is one of the best fights I've ever seen.


----------



## Ape City

> The problem was that my gameplan was based on not stepping forward because if I stepped forward, he would change levels," Hardy said. "So I was trying to get him to commit so I could counter him. He just didn't want to play on the feet at all."


What a freaking shock. So you came in with a bad gameplan against someone who was gaurenteed to take you down and are shocked when he does just that?



> The athleticism and power St-Pierre is known for did not overwhelm the challenger as many expected it would. Though St-Pierre nearly ripped Hardy's arm off with armbar and kimura attempts, the challenger hung in the fight and said he was never in danger. The fight just plodded along.


What a terrible attempt at discrediting GSPs domination. "even though he nearly ripped his arm off...more than once... he was never in danger", makes sense right? The fight was "just plodding along" while Hardy could do absolutely nothing to stop it...because he wasn't being "overwhelmed" or anything. What a tool.



> Hardy was left with a bitter taste in his mouth.


Wonder if it had anything to do with running his mouth about how he wasn't going to be beaten down for 5 rounds then he was?

"


> I was saying this in the buildup to the fight – 'GSP' doesn't take risks in his fights anymore," he said. "He knew that my strength was striking and (within) 17 seconds of the first round, he shot in for a takedown. I think that says a lot about his approach to the fight game. He goes in there to win the fight and keep the belt and not to beat his opponent.


Wow I didn't realize you could be this stupid and still speak. Winning the fight, amazingly, unbelievably, is the same thing as beating your opponent. I know folks, it is shocking. I also was one of the many who thought that the only way to beat an opponent is to stand up and box. OOOH Wait!!!! There is this sport called MMA, and I heard that if you compete in it there are rules and a scoring system!!!




> "You can only fight this way for so long before people start complaining. I think Saturday night highlighted that, and I think a lot of people have started complaining. I don't know how we're going to get around it, because as the sport is now, you can do that and win fights.


I think Hardy may have brain damage. You know how you get around that, Hardy? You don't get your stupid british ass taken down with ease. You learn to wrestle. You get stronger. You get faster. you get bigger. You get *way* smarter. There is this magical way of "getting around it", it's called being on the same skill level as your opponent, which you arn't and won't be, even if you try for another year.



> "When I fight him again, I'll be able to step into the octagon with a lot more confidence," he said. "Not that I didn't go into this fight with confidence, but I'm convinced now I can beat him. With a couple more months of training and a bit of work in a couple of areas, I can get the job done.
> 
> "I may have lost on Saturday night, but I wasn't beaten."


Yes you were. But it's okay, twist logic all you want to make yourself feel better.

/end rant.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

lol, this thread is beginning to border on ridiculous, and I've no longer any interest in it. GSP fought to DEFEND his belt?! That bastard!

Hardy is as much to blame as GSP for this 'boring' match-up, if that's the route we're taking. He came to fight, did he? And where was that fighting spirit? Why didn't he throw a single elbow from bottom position, or maybe a knee every time GSP went in for a take down? If you're going to knock GSP for not coming to fight, but defend Hardy because he 'wanted to put it all on the line' in a fight where he landed one strike, well... I'm sorry, but you're going to look like an idiot. Maybe GSP should be a bit more ballsy in his fights. But maybe Dan should learn some take down defence and how to work some damage from bottom position, ala Marquardt in his bout with Sonnen. Oh, wait... I forgot. Dan doesn't need those tools, because his opponents should play into his strengths. Right... that's how MMA typically works. Shame on GSP for ignoring that.


----------



## RHYNO2K

He should´ve said that to GSP when he was shaking his hand after the fight.


----------



## diablo5597

good post. I'd also like to mention that young GSP would beat Hardy as well, the one that 1st entered the UFC. Hardy will never be as good as GSP is now and probably will never be as good as young GSP either.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

alizio said:


> ill just say this aswell
> 
> Hardy and his fans who think that GSP couldnt have EASILY just made it a 25min GnP session instead of a BJJ session and leave Hardy a Fitch like mess, are DELUSIONAL.
> 
> The only reason Hardy looks ok and feels OK is cuz GSP wanted to show off his BJJ.
> 
> so ignorant that some ppl think Hardy did such a great job on the ground that GSP couldnt GnP him.
> 
> Yes, Hardy is better on the ground then Serra, Penn, Alves and Fitch. You didnt know??


Quoted for truth.

Spot on. I love how Hardy is now better from the guard than Penn. LAWL

Not to mention Hardy's post fight "I see why he's the champion." Should have said "I see why he's the champion. I'm still going to talk shit because I'm a douchebag."


----------



## Woodenhead

The_Nightmare said:


> Woodenhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Error.
> 
> 
> 
> obviously in terms of each sport.
Click to expand...

Sure. And in terms of grappling, that was a very high scoring (albeit lopsided) game.


----------



## stu0411

Fukn Hardy, in 2 years time we won't even remember who he is. Give him Kos, Fitch then Alves and when he loses against them ship him off to wherever. The guy is a clown who needs to seriously acknowledge his weaknesses, not those of the guy who just dominated him.


----------



## bazmagoo

stu0411 said:


> Fukn Hardy, in 2 years time we won't even remember who he is. Give him Kos, Fitch then Alves and when he loses against them ship him off to wherever. The guy is a clown who needs to seriously acknowledge his weaknesses, not those of the guy who just dominated him.


Just a beautiful explanation


----------



## bazmagoo

diablo5597 said:


> good post. I'd also like to mention that young GSP would beat Hardy as well, the one that 1st entered the UFC. Hardy will never be as good as GSP is now and probably will never be as good as young GSP either.


This is probably why it will take a long time for an English fighter to be champion. Always looking for excuses, never for weakness in their own game. It's plagued their boxing for years (minus Joe Calzaghe and even he is somewhat debatable). It's just a part of the culture,


----------



## Soojooko

Wow. This thread is jokes. You do realise you all agree with each other right? Its like 9 pages of pure choir preaching. What exactly are most of you debating? With who? Dan Hardy? I'm pretty sure he's not reading this.

Damn you Michael Carson for ruining this almost perfect collection of pointless regurgitating of the EXACT same point over and over and over. Why did you have to come along and actually debate something? The georgettes were all oiled up and ready to have a f*ukfest and you ruined the mood with another opinion. How dare you...


----------



## stu0411

Soojooko said:


> Wow. This thread is jokes. You do realise you all agree with each other right? Its like 9 pages of pure choir preaching. What exactly are most of you debating? With who? Dan Hardy? I'm pretty sure he's not reading this.
> 
> Damn you Michael Carson for ruining this almost perfect collection of pointless regurgitating of the EXACT same point over and over and over. Why did you have to come along and actually debate something? The georgettes were all oiled up and ready to have a f*ukfest and you ruined the mood with another opinion. How dare you...


I read o.p. and responded, funny how everyone seems to agree hey.

P.S. Seeing as you are all over hardys nuts you can probably answer this...My sister wants to know if he colours his pubes too?


----------



## Soojooko

stu0411 said:


> I read o.p. and responded, funny how everyone seems to agree hey.
> 
> P.S. Seeing as you are all over hardys nuts you can probably answer this...My sister wants to know if he colours his pubes too?


Thing is, just because my avatar is Hardy everybody assumes I'm all over his nuts. That's how shallow most of your opinions are. Maybe you should actually read my posts before you make a comment based on the little pic to the left you numpty.

My point still stands. 9 pages of comments over and over from the same dudes saying the same thing... agreeing with each other... and then saying the same thing again. and again. and again.

Thats fecking nuthugging my friend. With vice grip and grappling hooks is how tightly this whole thread is attached to GSP's bollocks.


----------



## stu0411

I read your post and responded, please don't think I care enough about you to trawl a forum for whatever else you have written. You have a Hardy avatar but are not all over his nuts...Whatever you want us to believe mate! Classic.

Its Hardy hate because the guy is wanker. That my friend is a fact.

Oh and by the way its a forum dude. If all you want is a debate then join a debating club. We are allowed to agree and most people are slamming hardy, not riding GSP's cock. If GSP is mentioned its probably only in reference to Hardys opponent who just happened to be the guy who dominated him for 5 rounds, albeit with a repetitive and somewhat boring (but highly effective) game plan.

Lol, I knew you would leave neg rep. How fukn gay are you! That shit is way queer but I guess I am flattered to think you cared enough to go to the effort. Haha, gold!


----------



## Soojooko

stu0411 said:


> I read your post and responded, please don't think I care enough about you to trawl a forum for whatever else you have written. You have a Hardy avatar but are not all over his nuts...Whatever you want us to believe mate! Classic.
> 
> Its Hardy hate because the guy is wanker. That my friend is a fact.
> 
> Oh and by the way its a forum dude. If all you want is a debate then join a debating club. We are allowed to agree and most people are slamming hardy, not riding GSP's cock. If GSP is mentioned its probably only in reference to Hardys opponent who just happened to be the guy who dominated him for 5 rounds, albeit with a repetitive and somewhat boring (but highly effective) game plan,.


If you honestly think you can draw those conclusions from an avatar choice then you're gonna get confused in this place!

I started this thread as an experiment and it worked a treat. My point is made. Adios.


----------



## stu0411

Lol "Confused in this place". That is champagne comedy.

Ironic that you get your debate and then **** off into the night. Classic.


----------



## Soojooko

stu0411 said:


> Lol "Confused in this place". That is champagne comedy.
> 
> Ironic that you get your debate and then **** off into the night. Classic.


Have you missed my point? There is nothing to debate. Thats why this whole thread is jokes. GSP is awesome and Hardys big mouth got crushed. Its simple facts, and yet somehow 9 pages still manage to get written without stating anything different.


----------



## stu0411

Soojooko said:


> Have you missed my point? There is nothing to debate. Thats why this whole thread is jokes. GSP is awesome and Hardys big mouth got crushed. Its simple facts, and yet somehow 9 pages still manage to get written without stating anything different.


Not at all, As I said man, its a forum...People are basically chatting like you would with a dozen mates at a pub, know what I mean.

You seem intelligent enough to be able to understand that and have posted enough to have seen similar conversations in dozens of other threads.


----------



## Leed

stu0411 said:


> I read your post and responded, please don't think I care enough about you to trawl a forum for whatever else you have written. You have a Hardy avatar but are not all over his nuts...Whatever you want us to believe mate! Classic.


Well then I guess I don't like anyone, since no one is in my avatar. :confused05:


----------



## stu0411

Leed said:


> Well then I guess I don't like anyone, since no one is in my avatar. :confused05:


Umm You actually don't have an avatar, as opposed to not having anyone in your avatar

Save the smart ass humor for the guys on comedy central, you ain't any good at it:thumbsup:

So, back to mma talk. Who is next for Hardy. Personally I reckon he will be fed another "B" level striker similar to The Irish Hand Grenade to build his stock back up. The only danger in this happening is it makes a complete farce out of him getting a title shot in the first place. Clearly any of the better wrestlers in the division have a blueprint to victory now.


----------



## UKMMAGURU

The point is that this subject has been beating a dead horse for what seems to be about 6 or 7 pages, there is no debate anymore guys..


----------



## Hiro

Soojooko said:


> Wow. This thread is jokes. You do realise you all agree with each other right? Its like 9 pages of pure choir preaching. What exactly are most of you debating? With who? Dan Hardy? I'm pretty sure he's not reading this.
> 
> Damn you Michael Carson for ruining this almost perfect collection of pointless regurgitating of the EXACT same point over and over and over. Why did you have to come along and actually debate something? The georgettes were all oiled up and ready to have a f*ukfest and you ruined the mood with another opinion. How dare you...


You created the thread, you used the words wood and fire, and now you're bitching about the result. Wtf is wrong with you?


----------



## Toxic

LMAO, I almost had a grain of respect for Hardy for not tapping, yet his mouth ruins any chance of that. Its not GSP's job to fight to Dan's strength, its his job to fight to Hardy's weaknesses and his own strengths. Its Dan's job to create a chance to stand and trade. He never had a single sliver of offense in the entire fight and just wants to talk because its all he can do to remain relevant in a title picture that he had no business in to begin with.


----------



## Soojooko

Hiro said:


> You created the thread, you used the words wood and fire, and now you're bitching about the result. Wtf is wrong with you?


I'm not bitching. I fed the fire and waited for it to become nice and fierce before unleashing my proposed saturday afternoon rant. It all went to plan, except for Michael bloody Carson coming along and ruining the thread. My rant would have been so much longer and sexier were it not for him taking the wind out of my sails. Damn it.

Still, twas fun enough reading the responses. It actually produced more bile than I thought. God damn, Hardy knows how to wind people up with the shite he talks. I hope he never stops!


----------



## Hiro

Soojooko said:


> I'm not bitching. I fed the fire and waited for it to become nice and fierce before unleashing my proposed saturday afternoon rant. It all went to plan, except for Michael bloody Carson coming along and ruining the thread. My rant would have been so much longer and sexier were it not for him taking the wind out of my sails. Damn it.
> 
> Still, twas fun enough reading the responses. It actually produced more bile than I thought. God damn, Hardy knows how to wind people up with the shite he talks. I hope he never stops!


lol :thumb02:


----------



## The Horticulturist

Soojooko said:


> I'm not bitching. I fed the fire and waited for it to become nice and fierce before unleashing my proposed saturday afternoon rant. It all went to plan, except for Michael bloody Carson coming along and ruining the thread. My rant would have been so much longer and sexier were it not for him taking the wind out of my sails. Damn it.
> 
> Still, twas fun enough reading the responses. It actually produced more bile than I thought. God damn, Hardy knows how to wind people up with the shite he talks. I hope he never stops!


oh jeeze he sure is playing us like a fool!! 

I can't believe we fell for it!!! 

OR, what he is doing is EXTREMELY easy to do, and since he can't do anything to GSP after all of his trashtalk, he just lingers around with the trashtalk? 

Yeah, cool guy! 

I'm just saying, I understand pre-fight rambling, and enjoyed seeing him get beaten up after it, - but this is one incident where he could have just kept his mouth shut and gained some fans.


----------



## stu0411

SJ said:


> oh jeeze he sure is playing us like a fool!!
> 
> I can't believe we fell for it!!!
> 
> OR, what he is doing is EXTREMELY easy to do, and since he can't do anything to GSP after all of his trashtalk, he just lingers around with the trashtalk?
> 
> Yeah, cool guy!
> 
> I'm just saying, this is one incident where he could have just kept his mouth shut and gained some fans.


Amen.


----------



## Grotty

alizio said:


> just become a kickboxer then Dan.... oh you cant hang there either??
> 
> well good luck sir.
> 
> keep the "ppl complaining".
> 
> what are "we" gonna do to change it??
> 
> how about improving as a fighter.
> 
> i like he said GSP wouldnt leave him comfort zone and he was waiting for him to shoot.
> 
> yet he did NOTHING to stop a thing everytime GSP shoots. No knees barely any hand throwing etc.
> 
> you knew GSP was a better grappler then you?? yet mad he didnt wanna strike??
> 
> why didnt you prove you go out there to win and beat GSP at his own game, why did he have to beat u at your own game??
> 
> oh yea, i remember, you got no game.
> 
> I, for one am looking forward to watching Dan Hardy slip into medicority.


Yawn, regardless Hughes got destroyed by a poorer version of GSP, Koscheck was Pwnd, Fitch was destroyed, Serra was demolished in the 2nd fight, Alvez was owned, so GSP the superhuman WW couldnt even manage to beat up HArdy he could only out wrestle him and couldnt finish the fight at all, as GSP said Hardy did better than he did first challenge.
Not bad for a fighter that 'only has standup', I suppose you would do better?
Hardy is just starting in the UFC yet he could not be stopped by GSP the wonder boy.
HAters can suck my balls


----------



## machidaisgod

Yes after reading your insightful analysis everyone is exposed as just being jealous of Hardy, Hardy should be ranked number 2. And in a year He will be WW champion, I accept it, wow it feels great not to be in denial anymore, thanks.


----------



## Ape City

Soojooko said:


> Wow. This thread is jokes. You do realise you all agree with each other right? Its like 9 pages of pure choir preaching. What exactly are most of you debating? With who? Dan Hardy? I'm pretty sure he's not reading this.
> 
> Damn you Michael Carson for ruining this almost perfect collection of pointless regurgitating of the EXACT same point over and over and over. Why did you have to come along and actually debate something? The georgettes were all oiled up and ready to have a f*ukfest and you ruined the mood with another opinion. How dare you...


I respond to threads before I read everyone elses posts so that my viewpoint remains untained, then I go back and red what everyone had to say.

I imagine a lot of people just simply responded to the inane crap spouting from Hardy's mouth as opposed to read the entire thread and went "I better agree!".



Soojooko said:


> I started this thread as an experiment and it worked a treat. My point is made. Adios.


Experiment? About what? To see if people will agree that Hardy is being a giant baby?



Soojooko said:


> Have you missed my point? There is nothing to debate. Thats why this whole thread is jokes. GSP is awesome and Hardys big mouth got crushed. Its simple facts, and yet somehow 9 pages still manage to get written without stating anything different.


I'm still confused. Why is a thread pointless just because we agree (for the most part)? People enjoy getting on badwagons and also bashwagons, i'm not sure why this surprises you.



SJ said:


> I'm just saying, I understand pre-fight rambling, and enjoyed seeing him get beaten up after it, - but this is one incident where he could have just kept his mouth shut and gained some fans.


It's kinda a double edged sword. Talking like this keeps his name in the media, which is smart on his part. At the same time he probably lost some of the fans he gained. I know a lot of people who were saying "Damn, that Hardy is really tough not to tap". 

Either way Hardy is keeping us talking which is definitely smart if he wants to keep the UFC promoting him the way they are now.


----------



## Ape City

sry DP, DP.


----------



## KittenStrangler

Hardy is right.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

KittenStrangler said:


> Hardy is right.


He wasn't beaten up that much but if he wants to just strike, he needs to go to boxing or K-1.


----------



## Rauno

GSP won, so i'm happy. Don't care that much, since he is still the WW champion, and proved his dominance.


----------



## Life B Ez

Lost not beaten.......okay yeah sure, I didn't win I just did not lose...it doesn't really matter.

At the end of 25 minutes, most of which was spent on his back he lost every round. So your mindset doesn't really matter and if he feels like he didn't get tooled in there with GSP he's more out of his mind then I thought.

Still have love for Hardy, guy's got heart, but this is like Bisping saying he felt like he was beating Hendo and could beat him on another day.


----------



## Soojooko

Ape City said:


> I respond to threads before I read everyone elses posts so that my viewpoint remains untained, then I go back and red what everyone had to say.


And here in lays the problem with internet debating. You dont read the comments before posting? How do you know 107 people haven't just made your point for you? Wouldn't it be easier to simply say "I agree" or "+1" to an existing comment instead of the repeating the same points over and over?



> I imagine a lot of people just simply responded to the inane crap spouting from Hardy's mouth as opposed to read the entire thread and went "I better agree!".


See above moan. I wish people would just say, "I agree" instead of typing up the same point using slightly different words.



> Experiment? About what? To see if people will agree that Hardy is being a giant baby?


To see how long it will be before the bashwagon ( great term by the way! ) gets bored of going round and round and round... which clearly isnt hasn't yet.



> I'm still confused. Why is a thread pointless just because we agree (for the most part)? People enjoy getting on badwagons and also bashwagons, i'm not sure why this surprises you.


Its pointless because even though nobody is disagreeing, some of you STILL feel the need to type up more posts with lots of words saying the same thing as your previous post.



> It's kinda a double edged sword. Talking like this keeps his name in the media, which is smart on his part. At the same time he probably lost some of the fans he gained. I know a lot of people who were saying "Damn, that Hardy is really tough not to tap".
> 
> Either way Hardy is keeping us talking which is definitely smart if he wants to keep the UFC promoting him the way they are now.


Now this I agree with 100%.

Look, this is all light hearted banter as far as I'm concerned. I was amused with most of the responses and the relentless nature of some of the posters. Its like the thread was gagging for somebody to to come along and disagree but they never came.( apart from Carsons cameo ) ... so the bashing just keeps on going on and on and on...

Lets hope once this thread has finally died, the mob have had their fill and can move on to some other poor underdog who dares to have confidence in his abilities. That's not the kind of shit we expect from our fighters damn it. We want them humble and self depreciating... like Elvis Sinosec.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

HitOrGetHit said:


> I will say it again, until someone beats GSP at his own game, then there is no reason for him to change his game. Hardy's strength is his striking, GSP's is his wrestling and grappling, so common sense tells me that GSP should take the fight to the ground. Just my opinion. :dunno:


There are different standards with both men. Dan Hardy's standard in this fight was to hang in with GSP. He did.

GSP's standard is to demolish Dan Hardy and prove to us all he's one of the more well rounded mixed martial artists in the world against a mid-tier opponent...like GSP has STATED he wanted to do. He didn't. 

Fighters set their own standards with their performances. Obviously, GSP is capable of finishing Dan Hardy. Instead, he scraped by the bare minimum. This is no different then what Tim Sylvia used to do and he was crucified for it.


----------



## Grotty

machidaisgod said:


> Yes after reading your insightful analysis everyone is exposed as just being jealous of Hardy, Hardy should be ranked number 2. And in a year He will be WW champion, I accept it, wow it feels great not to be in denial anymore, thanks.


Wow your so right how did i miss that?? omg i just thought Hardy did better than the rest of the recent challengers in the respect that GSP didnt either finish him as so many GSP nuthuggers said he would or indeed even mark him.
Gosh your so right i almost thought your response was sarcasm.....:sarcastic12::sarcastic12::sarcastic12::sarcastic12:


----------



## Soojooko

Grotty said:


> Wow your so right how did i miss that?? omg i just thought Hardy did better than the rest of the recent challengers in the respect that GSP didnt either finish him as so many GSP nuthuggers said he would or indeed even mark him.
> Gosh your so right i almost thought your response was sarcasm.....:sarcastic12::sarcastic12::sarcastic12::sarcastic12:


Dont be silly boy. Aint you in on the "facts". Apparently, GSP had his eye on a submission win. He wanted to show off his fabby BJJ and thats why he didn't do anything else. Apparently if he wanted to GnP Hardy he could have... left him worse than Fitch and Alves for sure 110%... but chose not to. All sounds completely reasonable to me. After all, he was fighting a no skills piece of limp meat that had been doing MMA for 3 months and was completely out of shape. If he wanted to finish him, he absolutely 110% certainly could have done it for sure... if he wanted to... but he didn't.

MMA forum... aka The Association of Deluded Mind Readers


----------



## out 4 the count

Squirrelfighter said:


> You cannot compare a "window licker who can't feel pain" to a man who can feel pain. You ever been in an armbar? They fuckin hurt like hell! You can feel the ligaments stretching and the bones crepitating against each other. Its almost unbearable. That is why its so ballsy he didn't tap. He could feel the pain, and fought through it. How many fighters out there in the entire world have that kind of intensity and drive. That's why I respect him now.


Yeah I've been in arm bar, yeah they hurt like hell when your arm is cranked just like every other sub. I even fucked my arm for a few weeks once drunkenly telling my (much fitter and stronger) friend he couldn't armbar me (because he's smaller), he did, it ******* hurt. I tapped straight away before my arm snapped.

I don't see it as being a man refusing to tap when you're totally outclassed by somebody. I'd give bigger respect to somebody who taps out and admitted they were beaten by the better guy than somebody who risks serious injury purely to fuel their ego.


----------



## Wombatsu

i give big props to Hardy for lasting out the full 5 rounds. He is a stud. But however at the same time it wasnt GSP's best fight, he should have finished him and didnt, he is gathering some of the BORING steam along the way. but yes Hardy has nothing to be unhappy about in all reality.


----------



## FatFreeMilk

Soojooko said:


> Dont be silly boy. Aint you in on the "facts". Apparently, GSP had his eye on a submission win. He wanted to show off his fabby BJJ and thats why he didn't do anything else. Apparently if he wanted to GnP Hardy he could have... left him worse than Fitch and Alves for sure 110%... but chose not to. All sounds completely reasonable to me. After all, he was fighting a no skills piece of limp meat that had been doing MMA for 3 months and was completely out of shape. If he wanted to finish him, he absolutely 110% certainly could have done it for sure... if he wanted to... but he didn't.
> 
> MMA forum... aka The Association of Deluded Mind Readers


:thumb02: This is so on point.

GSP in the build says he want to destroy Hardy, not just win but completely smash him badly. He doesn't. But that's only because he didn't want to. Except that he did.


----------



## Toxic

Alex_DeLarge said:


> There are different standards with both men. Dan Hardy's standard in this fight was to hang in with GSP. He did.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with the first part but the second? Really Hardy did not hang with GSP, he survived 5 rounds but really survive is all he did. Don't get me wrong its alot more than I ever thought he was capable of but he had no offense and it was not a competitive fight.
> 
> 
> 
> GSP's standard is to demolish Dan Hardy and prove to us all he's one of the more well rounded mixed martial artists in the world against a mid-tier opponent...like GSP has STATED he wanted to do. He didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Hardy really is a mid-tier opponent and I can't agree with you more here. GSP should have destroyed Hardy in one of the most epic beat downs we have ever seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Squirrelfighter

out 4 the count said:


> Yeah I've been in arm bar, yeah they hurt like hell when your arm is cranked just like every other sub. I even fucked my arm for a few weeks once drunkenly telling my (much fitter and stronger) friend he couldn't armbar me (because he's smaller), he did, it ******* hurt. I tapped straight away before my arm snapped.
> 
> I don't see it as being a man refusing to tap when you're totally outclassed by somebody. I'd give bigger respect to somebody who taps out and admitted they were beaten by the better guy than somebody who risks serious injury purely to fuel their ego.


Well I've never been in a drunken armbar, but I've been in more than one in training. 

I don't lose repect for a man if he taps. When a guy taps, to me, its him saying, "Yeah, you got me." Rather than "Oh no, its gonna hurt!" But Hardy didn't say either. With him it was more, "**** you. Break it or I'm getting out of it." Its the Don't Quit mindset that gave me so much respect for him. I kind of envy that mindset. I wish I had it to the same degree Hardy does.


----------



## Ape City

Soojooko said:


> And here in lays the problem with internet debating. You dont read the comments before posting? How do you know 107 people haven't just made your point for you? Wouldn't it be easier to simply say "I agree" or "+1" to an existing comment instead of the repeating the same points over and over?


It really depends on the situation. This particular article annoyed me quite a bit, along with a lot of other people. If I read somthing I feel particularly strong about I tend to post my reply right away then respond to others after. If it isn't somthing that annoys me (and also isn't 10 pages long) I will read every post first.

But I have to respectfully disagree with the "I agree" or "+1" style of posting. I think it adds absolutely nothing to the thread and just as well may not be typed. Sure, a lot of this thread is people ranting and repeating themselves, but there are a few gems of awsomeness throughout the thread that wouldn't exist if we all just said "+1" to the first person who called Hardy out.


> To see how long it will be before the bashwagon ( great term by the way! ) gets bored of going round and round and round... which clearly isnt hasn't yet.


Hehe. Well I suppose it will fizzle out eventually 



> Its pointless because even though nobody is disagreeing, some of you STILL feel the need to type up more posts with lots of words saying the same thing as your previous post.


Honestly, it annoyed me so much I felt the need post what I did regardless. My post probably came off as a direct attack on Hardy, despite the 0% chance he will read it, or care if he did. Maybe if my wife cared to listen to my MMA rants I wouldn't have had to do it, but here we are!



> Now this I agree with 100%.
> 
> Look, this is all light hearted banter as far as I'm concerned. I was amused with most of the responses and the relentless nature of some of the posters. Its like the thread was gagging for somebody to to come along and disagree but they never came.( apart from Carsons cameo ) ... so the bashing just keeps on going on and on and on...
> 
> Lets hope once this thread has finally died, the mob have had their fill and can move on to some other poor underdog who dares to have confidence in his abilities. That's not the kind of shit we expect from our fighters damn it. We want them humble and self depreciating... like Elvis Sinosec.


I can admit that after I posted my rant I was hoping to find someone in the thread playing devils advocate and defending Hardy. But for Hardy's sake he should probably try to keep this mob ravaging after him; like I was saying before this will help turn him into the next GSP or Brock. Brock showed us, as many other fighters in the past have (tito for example), that all you really need to do to keep yourself in the UFCs marketing machine is keep people talking.


----------



## KittenStrangler

HitOrGetHit said:


> He wasn't beaten up that much but if he wants to just strike, he needs to go to boxing or K-1.


Hardy wouldn't stand a chance against a K-1 fighter or a boxer. I can only imagine the beating he would receive.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

KittenStrangler said:


> Hardy wouldn't stand a chance against a K-1 fighter or a boxer. I can only imagine the beating he would receive.


I know he would, but in MMA he is a striker, so he needs to expect that people will take him down.


----------



## Kang-War

*Dan Hardy: Gsp Is An Athlete, Not A Fighter*



> The learning curve in MMA is a tough road to walk sometimes.
> 
> British fighter Dan Hardy treaded on that very path at UFC 111 when he faced welterweight champion Georges St-Pierre and lost by unanimous decision after a five round fight. No one questioned Hardy's heart after the fight, but he admits it was tough to swallow.
> 
> Staying in the United States for a few months after the fight, Hardy spoke candidly with MMAWeekly Radio about the fight with GSP, and how he looks back on the bout just a couple of weeks later.
> 
> Admitting that he only went back to watch the fight once, Hardy believes that St-Pierre did play it safe, but it doesn't matter because he got the win.
> 
> "He obviously didn't want to take any risks in the fight, fair enough. He's got a lot riding on the fight, that's fair enough," said Hardy. "There's winning, and ‘winning’ and no disrespect to Georges, but that's not how I would want to win a fight. But he got the job done and that's why he's got the belt and I haven't."
> 
> GSP did lock up a Kimura during the fight that saw the British fighter's arm go in a direction that no one's should, and Hardy even let out a scream in pain when the Canadian was twisting and turning the hold. Still, there was never a thought to give up.
> 
> "I'm just stubborn. That's about 98 percent of my ground game is stubbornness," said Hardy. "He got me in the position, and I knew it was coming as soon as he got a hand on my wrist. It's a position that he likes and I knew as soon as he felt like he got a lock on the arm, he was going to try and wrench it around my back. I've got a really flexible shoulder, or at least I have now, but I'm fine. It wasn't something that was going to get me to tap, that's for sure."
> 
> Prior to the fight, Hardy was engaged in a war of words with St-Pierre as the two filmed the UFC Primetime show leading into their championship bout. Now that the fight is over, Hardy has nothing harsh to say about the champion, but still has an opinion on how the fight went down, and St-Pierre's style to get the victory.
> 
> "All trash talking aside now cause obviously the fight's done and out of the way, and I'll be saving it now for my next fight against him, but I did say it in the build up to the fight that he's not a fighter. He goes out there to win the fight, that's what he does," Hardy said.
> 
> "In my opinion, the way to win a fight is to go in there and you take it from your opponent. You beat it out of them, and that's how I always want to approach my fights. Some people are different and Georges approaches it like a professional athlete approaches a sport. He goes out there and does what he needs to do to win."
> 
> Hardy still sees GSP as a challenge that he hopes to conquer one day, on his way to creating his own place in the history of MMA.
> 
> "At the end of the day, he's still an opponent and I do want to fight him again," said Hardy.
> 
> "People probably think I'm big headed by saying this, but before the fight, stepping in there, I was either like I'm going to knock him out, or I'm going to be completely overwhelmed by him, and realize I don't belong in there. But neither of those things happened. I didn't land that shot to stop the fight, but at the same time I didn't feel overwhelmed, I felt outpointed."
> 
> No injuries came to Hardy as a result of the fight so physically he's fine, but he admits that mentally he's a bit drained and wants to take a few weeks to relax and recover. Hardy is also honest to see the faults in his own game that cost him against GSP, and he'll go back to the drawing board when he returns to training.
> 
> "All I need to do now is get back in the gym and get to work on those areas of the game and bring them up to speed," he said. "I don’t think the title's too far in the distance for me. I think I can get there and I can hold the belt and basically build a legacy in the sport. I'm just not quite there yet."
> 
> As far as timing for his return to action, Hardy says he hasn't heard from the UFC yet, but while he's hopeful for a little time off, he's ready to do the assassin's work when Joe Silva makes the call.
> 
> "When I get that call from the UFC, I'll start thinking about getting myself ready, and I don't mind when the fight is," said Hardy. "I know there's one coming up in the U.K. later on in the year, maybe that will be a good option, but at the end of the day I'm a mercenary for the UFC and whoever needs beaten up next is the next on the line."


Wassup with every one saying gsp dont beat up people he just do the minimum.:confused03:


----------



## KittenStrangler

Jesus. He's still talking about this? He's almost as bad as Anthony Johnson when he lost to Koscheck.


----------



## PheelGoodInc

Then Hardy need to try to be more of an athlete and less of a fighter.

/end thread

Edit:
He didn't say GSP wasn't a fighter. He said he approached the fight like a professional athlete. I couldn't find anything in that article that stated he wasn't a fighter.


----------



## Danm2501

I presume he was asked about it, and it did only happen just over 2 weeks ago. BJ Penn was bitching about the greasing issue for months after that fight. 

As for Dan's comments, he's made those comments a few times (I'm actually not sure if this is a new interview), and I agree with him in parts. However, the whole being an athlete and not a fighter is not a bad thing for GSP; it works for him, it's a smart way of fighting and means he keeps his belt. Dan was out-worked by one of the worlds best grapplers because he couldn't defend the takedown. That's Dan's problem, not GSP's. Don't see why GSP should have to put himself in compromising positions to prove he's a 'fighter'. Hardy should have defended the takedown, or found a way to get up after being taken-down.


----------



## Spec0688

Maybe Hardy should go into boxing if he feels so bad about getting dominated on the ground. How can you say that he isnt a fighter when he did better in the striking department even if it was for 30 seconds, Hardy was too scared to throw a punch or let his hands go. 

At least all the other fighters took the their loss in stride but Hardy just keeps running his mouth on how GSP this,GSP that, GSP is scared to strike with me...blah blah blah blah blah

I am Dan Hardy and I am still sore about my loss, Hear me whine for the next few months on how I got totally schooled on the ground and I am getting praised for not tapping.


----------



## Calibretto9

This is stupid, because honestly, a UFC match isn't a "fight." Sure, we call it a "fight" because it's easier to think of that way, but in a real fight, there's no one there telling you, "Hey there, no grabbing the shorts!" In a fight, there are no rules.

So, if you're in a situation where there are rules, then you're in a match. And, St. Pierre understands that and plays the game. Is it as exciting as some? No.

Now the original UFC's where anything goes... That was indeed a fight.


----------



## JPNPanties

Hardy is still talking trash!? Is that all he is good at? I mean come on, He already lost to GSP!


----------



## swpthleg

I know Hardy can do better than this.

He could at least give us another wrestling clip with the tights and ear protection, rather than rehashing this topic.


----------



## MagiK11

I just read this article on sherdog and thoguht it was pretty dumb. As Danm2501 said Hardy should learn how to stuff takedowns, or learn a few sweeps from the bottom before saying useless comments such as these.

His ground game is weak and GSP exposed that fairly cleraly, so Hardy just needs to work on that to become a complete fighter instead of a one dimentional one.


----------



## LOJ

If GSP had just pounded on Hardy instead of looking for the sub attempts, Hardy would not be talking about how "GSP is an athlete, and not a fighter". If his faced looked like Alves' or Jon Fitch's after the fight I'm sure he would say that GSP is in fact a fighter that destroyed him.


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## sNatch204

No1 should be upset with what Hardy is saying. GSP himself says he isnt a fighter, hes a Mixed Martial Aritist, same thing Hardy is saying. You dont have to be a fighter to be in MMA, you can be an athlete. Its a sport. A born fighter is someone like BJ Penn who will fight anywhere from LW to fkn HW. A guy like Wanderlie who tries to rip you face off every time he fights. GSP is a super athlete who wants to win. Nothing wrong that that.


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## SUR1109

lol even GSP says hes not a fighter "im a mixed matial artist" i do beleive tht wat he says:thumbsup:

oooops sNatch204 beat me to it


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## vaj3000

god this hardy dude needs a cup of stfu...grow a pair and take responsibility for your loss...stop bitching and whining


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## Icculus

I want Hardy to fight Paulo Thiago now. I want Thiago to get a deep armbar, and I want Hardy to see why you should tap in MMA. Someone needs to rip the douchebag's arm off to shut him up.


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## Harness

He didn't even come off that bad yet people complain!


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## SideWays222

So Dan Hardy considers himself in the same category that Tank Abbot and Kimbo are in?? :confused02:


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## edlavis88

why is everyone getting so up tight? Dan isn't talking trash here he is just talkingvhonestly bout the fight, GSP isn't a fighter he is much more cerebral than that. Dan acknowledged he had weaknesses in the fight and expressed an interest in going away and working his way back to the top. Am I the only one who doesn't see that as trash talk??


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## SideWays222

edlavis88 said:


> why is everyone getting so up tight? Dan isn't talking trash here he is just talkingvhonestly bout the fight, GSP isn't a fighter he is much more cerebral than that. Dan acknowledged he had weaknesses in the fight and expressed an interest in going away and working his way back to the top. Am I the only one who doesn't see that as trash talk??


I think the title is making Dan look worse then the interview is.... not his fault.


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## Hiro

PheelGoodInc said:


> Then Hardy need to try to be more of an athlete and less of a fighter.
> 
> /end thread
> 
> Edit:
> He didn't say GSP wasn't a fighter. He said he approached the fight like a professional athlete. I couldn't find anything in that article that stated he wasn't a fighter.





> but I did say it in the build up to the fight that *he's not a fighter*. He goes out there to win the fight, that's what he does


Moving on...

So what does Hardy think MMA is all about? Street fighting? Kickboxing?

Damage incurred by having your arm almost ripped out of it's socket is no less legitimate than damage incurred by punching. It takes longer to implement and GSP didn't do the best job of actually causing damage/ripping said arm out of the socket, but it's still part of the game. GSP went out to finish the *fight* with jiu jitsu. Hardy knows this, since he went to Serra JJ to train sub defence. He therefore knows BJJ is legitimate in an _MMA fight_.

I can only assume he's referring to some other sort of fighting. Street fight, bitch fight, food fight, pillow fight or some other fight. What he obviously is not referring to is MMA fighting, despite the fact he just fought one of the top p4p MMA fighters in a UFC title fight. Just to clarify, UFC is an MMA organisation.

Hardy is looking very stupid by bringing this up yet again.

I also feel like he's disrespecting MMA and promoting the sort of image the UFC has done well to leave behind. Judging from his comments, he would probably give more credit to Tank Abott than GSP, and that alone is laughable.

It's funny to think if GSP wanted to he could have just pounded Hardy's face for 5 rounds instead. I really wish he'd have done that, stopped this guy talking such crap :sarcastic12:


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## limba

And hardy is The BIGGEST LOOOOSER!!!
And he doesn't even realise this!
He was granted the chance to fight for the title and he didn't do ANYTHING!!!!
He won't fight for the title EVER AGAIN!!
I could bet everything i have on this.
And he blew it! BIG TIME!!
HE didn't do anything. 
So i would advise him to STFU! 
One more loss and he will become a nobody! I would be carefull if i were him!


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## munkie

I promise if GSP used ground n pound instead of attempting Jiu Jitsu, Hardy would have quit. End of story. Dan Hardy is a fighter, just not a smart fighter. Hardy is kidding himself if he thinks he can stand with GSP. Even though it wasn't much time at all, GSP tooled him in the stand up of their fight. If Hardy actually thinks he can end the fight with 1 punch, which he can't as he has proven many times in the past, then why didn't he? All it takes is a split second for that 1 punch to land. Bottom line, Hardy is inferior to GSP in every single aspect of MMA. Hardy's stand up is light years behind Thiago Alves's, and Alves actually has a ground game, and GSP absolutely tooled him in every aspect of the fight. Hardy has nothing to add to professional MMA otherthan shit talk.


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## Davisty69

This guy is starting to go back towards the "I'm tired of hearing him talk" zone. His talking wasn't bad before he fights, but now that it is over, I just want him to shut up.


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## bedcommando

I didn't like Hardy before but now I don't mind him.
He got dominated for 5 rounds but it hasn't broken his will.

The way I see this is he isn't running his mouth or mocking GSP. Just kind of saying they both have different views on how they fight. And its true, almost every fighter has a specific way of winning. Generally it breaks down to breaking the opponent or just doing whats required for the W.

I'd give GSP a break because he's already champion he doesn't really have to prove anything just maintain the belt. 

But there were champions who went out to destroy. Most of them though are no longer holding any belts and its probably because they didn't play it safe. Ex Wanderlei, Penn, AngelTorres...

It just boils down to what the money paying individual wants to see. Blood or a win


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## hommage1985

An athlete is dominating. These fighters should try and become better athletes. Then maybee they can dominate like GSP.


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## vandalian

When Hardy has become half as much in the _fighter_ GSP is, then maybe he can criticize.


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## michelangelo

Hardy's entitled to his opinion, I suppose, but his real challenge now is to spend 80% of his training in wrestling and submissions from here on out until he has something resembling a competitive ground game. 

Otherwise, he's really got no chance against guys like Koshcheck or Fitch, much less GSP...


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## Guy Incognito

i think part of the reason he is still talking about it,is because he wants to keep his name out there so he doesn't fall back into the bottom of the barrel


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## Warchild

GSP is not a fighter, he's a mixed martial artist and a master tactician. His grappling and takedown skills completely nullify whatever his opponents strengths are. Dan Hardy's strength is striking, kind of hard to strike from your back ehh? Piss and moan is all I hear, these guys get all pissy when GSP doesn't come out and fall right into their strengths, often times if he does, he still does it better than them. "I'm good at striking so GSP should come out here and strike with me, if he doesn't he's afraid.", lol. He reminds me of Peyton Manning in that he studies and disects his opponents, then makes them fall right into his strategy whether they want to or not. He's basically just smarter than everyone he's faced.


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## Jamal

Didnt Firas Zahabi say something tot he same effect on the Primetime?


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## _RIVAL_

Yeah.....tell John Fitch that GSP isn't a fighter.... lmao


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## Squirrelfighter

I like Hardy, and in this interview he's not as douchy as he was right after the fight, but I think he's still in lala land a little. He was outpointed, absolutely, and in the latter(championship)rounds, it looked like he was well and truly overwhelmed. 

But as I said in the first Post Hardy v GSP thread he showed some real ability to nullify GSP's ground for most of the 1st round. I think his biggest areas of inferiority were 1. takedowns, 2. rolling, and surpisingly enough, 3. striking. He was well and truly outclassed by a superior athlete *AND *fighter. 

But, assuming he's intelligent, failure breeds growth, and growth leads to victory. I'm saying now, assuming he wins and climbs back up the latter, and shows legitimate improvement in all aspects listed above, Hardy via UD in 2012(but that may be accociated with the end of the world)


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