# Prime Time: Part Deux



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Looks to me like GSP and his camp really got to Dan tonight... came off as though a nerve had been hit towards the end there. If you dish it out, be prepared to get some back, Danny boy. Good episode, though this idea that Georges has a weak chin and holes in his stand-up is starting to get bothersome. GSP has some of the most well rounded stand-up I've ever seen, but because he goes down once in his career, he's chinny and has holes in his stand-up? Is that the only way this fight is rendered exciting? If we fool ourselves into believing that GSP's game is in some respect flawed?

I completely give the power advantage to Hardy, but to say that his stand-up is light years ahead of GSP's is silly. Anyway, I'm not here to bag on Dan... talented kid who has his eye on the prize. But these trainers, and even Dan himself... they're only fooling themselves. How many times does GSP have to prove he can stand and trade with 'stand-up' guys?


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

GSP is the man, training with the best and having a outstanding work ethic. Hardy just talks shit because he knows he wont be relevant if he doesnt. this show is making Hardy look better then he actually is, guess it will be better for the ratings...

I dont see GSP having too many problems with him, he can train the ground game all he wants, but you wont learn in it a matter of 3-4 months.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I also reiterate... not bagging on Dan, so no need to attack me if you're a fan, lol. Dan has only really said that he's going to KO GSP... fair play to him. But his trainer talking about how we know 'if hit, GSP goes down'... and then Dana touching on the 'holes in GSP's stand-up'. I really don't get it. Dude stumbles once in 21 fights, and that's enough to be certain that he 'goes down' when hit? Hell, he wasn't even out when Serra hit him, and it took about seven punches to finally get him to the ground. And has Dana not been watching GSP's stand-up in the last few fights? I dunno... guess they have to sell Hardy as a threat. But they don't need to do it at the expense of GSP. Truth is, even though I don't see it happening, Hardy could well KO GSP if he catches him right. No need to rely on false pretenses and Matt Serra's 'shock the world' victory to beef up the story.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Canadian Psycho said:


> I completely give the power advantage to Hardy, but to say that his stand-up is light years ahead of GSP's is silly.


Even the power advantage is questionable, GSP had one-punch knockdowns on Fitch and Alves, how many other fighters have done that to either one of them?

Also, nice to see Patrick Cote back in training and sparring against GSP. I think he makes a pretty good stand-in for Hardy, good striking, heavy hands, and a damn solid chin.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Hardy as a contender is a joke. GSP is light years ahead of him and the only way to sell this fight is to keep reminding everybody that Hardy hits hard and that one time GSP fought somebody who hit him hard he lost. Lets ignore that fact GSP has crushed far superior strikers to Hardy.


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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

I must admit this show was almost a little bit frustrating. It's like Dan Hardy spent the whole show defending everything GSP said in the previous show and now it shows Hardy powerlifting and jumping just because GSP did it the previous episode. Then Dana actually had the nerve to say that Hardy has "perfect" standup. Perfect! lol I guess this show is more aimed at casual fans than at the hardcore fans, because Hardy does have a chance at victory, but not to the extent the show implies.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

towwffc said:


> I must admit this show was almost a little bit frustrating. It's like Dan Hardy spent the whole show defending everything GSP said in the previous show and now it shows Hardy powerlifting and jumping just because GSP did it the previous episode. Then Dana actually had the nerve to say that Hardy has "perfect" standup. Perfect! lol I guess this show is more aimed at casual fans than at the hardcore fans, because Hardy does have a chance at victory, but not to the extent the show implies.


Hardy's only chance is that GSP has a heart attack.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

It's heating up...stoked about the two co-main events that I almost forgot about the Thiago Alves and Jon Fitch fight. All three are gonna be barn burners!

Can't figure out who's going to win between Carwin and Mir. That's a tough one...although Carwin has a slight edge cuz of his KO ability. Wonder what his PSI is...


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## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

420atalon said:


> Hardy's only chance is that GSP has a heart attack.


Hmmm... In that case maybe Hardy should train with Kazuyuki “Iron Head” Fujita instead of Serra.


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## Skylaars (Jul 13, 2009)

GSP is training with Cote, Marquardt, KenFlo, Mousasi.

Hardy is training with Matt Serra.

LMAO.


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## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

Yeah, I think one thing Prime Time really did was put into perspective the difference in the training partners. GSP is training with proven top level competitors while Hardy can't really come close to claiming the same. It's just one of many disadvantages that have been compiling against Hardy. Surely he notices such things.

That being said, I hope Hardy surprises us. Not with a win, I want GSP to win. But I hope Hardy makes it a decent fight where both he and Georges can walk away with more experience. I like Hardy, I think he has guts for taking this fight and even more for as much as he apparently believes in himself. I also really enjoyed his comment about how Georges implied him not being from a martial arts background. I think because of how 'martial arts' is perceived, many think of it to be this mystical discipline about respect and self control. However, if you scrutinize martial arts, it becomes clear that its only design was to hurt or kill an opponent.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

lol @ drawing any kind of conclusions from an EDITED TV show.



you know. The Hardy hate is getting out of hand. I just watched the show after reading this thread and honestly... I dont see it. Hardy powerlifted because he saw George do it? For real?! lol. GSP got under Dans skin? Nope, sorry... didn't see that either. GSPs training is better because of what you saw on A TV SHOW FOR FECKS SAKE?!!! In fact, so busy are some analysing every morsel that comes out of Dans big gob, I cant believe nobody is getting tired of GSP's monotonous droning. They are starting to make me cringe to be honest. Both Dan and GSP. Both of them being hyped to the point that I have to listen to them say the SAME FECKING THING 2300 times before the fight.

Besides all that. How can anybody not be even remotely impressed by Dan going to China for 2 months on his own at 18?! Has it got to the point where no matter what he does hes hated on? Ive not seen one comment about it. And Dans right. GSP doesnt know anything about him. Neither do I or any of you jokers.

My question? Hypothetically, If he gives GSP a good challenge before inevitably losing, will any of you who don't give him a hope, give him any credit?


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Totally agree, the Hardy hate that's built in the last week or so has just been ridiculous. I don't even see what he's done to deserve any of the hate either.

To add to Soojooko's point also, hypothetically, if he beats GSP convincingly, what happens then? Is it just written off as a 1 off fluke? Will he get any credit what-so-ever?


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Danm2501 said:


> To add to Soojooko's point also, hypothetically, if he beats GSP convincingly, what happens then? Is it just written off as a 1 off fluke? Will he get any credit what-so-ever?


Theres no point asking questions about events that are so unlikely my man. That's what fuels arguments and gets nowhere, resulting in my far less sensationalist question getting lost in the flames. Know what I'm saying?


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

Danm2501 said:


> Totally agree, the Hardy hate that's built in the last week or so has just been ridiculous. I don't even see what he's done to deserve any of the hate either.
> 
> To add to Soojooko's point also, hypothetically, if he beats GSP convincingly, what happens then? Is it just written off as a 1 off fluke? Will he get any credit what-so-ever?


lol when people beat gsp the fans will always turn it into that it was a fluke


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

Soojooko said:


> My question? Hypothetically, If he gives GSP a good challenge before inevitably losing, will any of you who don't give him a hope, give him any credit?


If he makes it out of the 1st round I will give him credit.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Danm2501 said:


> To add to Soojooko's point also, hypothetically, if he beats GSP convincingly, what happens then? Is it just written off as a 1 off fluke? Will he get any credit what-so-ever?


He can't beat GSP convincingly! It's impossible for him to do that. He can be another Serra, but he could never go in there and give somebody like GSP a beating, cause George is light years ahead of him as a fighter.

Watch Hardys fights again and watch just a few of GSP's, then you see how impossible it is.


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## fullcontact (Sep 16, 2006)

Where can I watch this show?:confused02:


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

here..

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_UFC..._St_Pierre_vs_Dan_Hardy_?vid=10009795&tid=107


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Danm2501 said:


> Totally agree, the Hardy hate that's built in the last week or so has just been ridiculous. I don't even see what he's done to deserve any of the hate either.


I think it's the way he's portrayed in the media by the UFC, in the UFC countdown & primetime shows he comes off as a bit of a cocky loudmouth, whereas in reality I don't think he's anything like that. I've read his previous interviews in _Fighters Only_ and heard some of his radio interviews as well, and he's a smart, funny well-spoken guy who just happens to be a smartass at times.

And then people buy the hype they see on TV and get all carried away.


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## lagmonkey (Apr 23, 2008)

The UFC puts on a series of promotional shows whose intention is to get people buzzing for their next PPV.

Mission accomplished. :thumb02:


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## JackAbraham34 (Jun 30, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> lol @ drawing any kind of conclusions from an EDITED TV show.
> 
> 
> 
> you know. The Hardy hate is getting out of hand. I just watched the show after reading this thread and honestly... I dont see it. Hardy powerlifted because he saw George do it? For real?! lol. GSP got under Dans skin? Nope, sorry... didn't see that either. GSPs training is better because of what you saw on A TV SHOW FOR FECKS SAKE?!!! In fact, so busy are some analysing every morsel that comes out of Dans big gob, I cant believe nobody is getting tired of GSP's monotonous droning. They are starting to make me cringe to be honest. Both Dan and GSP. Both of them being hyped to the point that I have to listen to them say the SAME FECKING THING 2300 times before the fight.


Apparently, anybody who speaks out against GSP is automaticly hated. Like Dan said, isn't having confidence against GSP a good start to beat him? And that if he gives him to much respect he's already lost? I remember Randy Coture saying something about people give Liddell too much respect so he wouldn't, otherwise he'd lose, and he went in there and beat Chuck's ass. So I don't see whats wrong with Hardy mouthing off about beating him. GSP says the same shit over and over again .. "I don't fight to be champion because I am champion" And everybody sucks his ass for it.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Why has only one person mentioned Dan's visit in China training with the monks. That was ******* amazing and saved the entire show. When i heard and saw that, immediately i just pictured kill bill 2 lol. I loved how Dan just completely shut down GSPS's "hes not a martial artist" rubbish with this as well, it was brilliant. 

Chances of Dan beating GSP in the fight, very slim, but hell, i'll be rooting and cheering for him all night. Dan certainly doesnt lack any confidence and i, am convinced that no matter what, GSP will not break his spirit in this fight, no matter how hard he may get beaten and busted up, Hardy has heart.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Why has only one person mentioned Dan's visit in China training with the monks. That was ******* amazing and saved the entire show. When i heard and saw that, immediately i just pictured kill bill 2 lol. I loved how Dan just completely shut down GSPS's "hes not a martial artist" rubbish with this as well, it was brilliant.


Shhhhhh... heaven forbid you might highlight something original and enjoyable. Oh no. Lets not talk about that rubbish. Lets instead focus on the pointless trashy drivel we've heard them both say a million times.

Personally, Dan endeared himself to me watching that clip of a scrawny 18 year old doing that kung-fu shit in the middle of nowhere. Made me laugh! I love the way Dan kicks. I suspect they'll feature in the fight at some point.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> Shhhhhh... heaven forbid you might highlight something original and enjoyable. Oh no. Lets not talk about that rubbish. Lets instead focus on the pointless trashy drivel we've heard them both say a million times.
> 
> Personally, Dan endeared himself to me watching that clip of a scrawny 18 year old doing that kung-fu shit in the middle of nowhere. Made me laugh! I love the way Dan kicks. I suspect they'll feature in the fight at some point.



Nobody has mentioned it because more-or-less it's useless information he gained there. It built character of course, but you also don't see everyone here mentioning the character-building GSP has done.


Hardy isn't getting a lot of hate for no reason, and I think you're confusing us knowing that GSP is the better fighter for hate. 


It's like when Rogers fought Fedor. Rogers got a TON of hate before and during, even fans of him jumped the boat temporarily. Then after the fight when things cooled down and it was old news everything is back to normal.


But to be honest I think any negative attitudes towards Hardy is because he hasn't beat a single top competitor at WW. Hasn't fought Alves, Fitch, Paulo Thiago, Koscheck, Daley, hell he hasn't even fought anyone of Matt Serra/Matt Hughes level.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> But to be honest I think any negative attitudes towards Hardy is because he hasn't beat a single top competitor at WW. Hasn't fought Alves, Fitch, Paulo Thiago, Koscheck, Daley, hell he hasn't even fought anyone of Matt Serra/Matt Hughes level.


None of which he has any control over.

And as for the whole monk bit being pointless? Really? Not interesting at all? At least it was a new bit of info about one of the fighters, amongst the regurgitated rubbish that filled the other 90% of the show. That part, along with the GSP sparing bit... they were interesting, and took up about 3 minutes combined. What a load of shite this show is. I'm not watching it again.

EDIT.



khoveraki said:


> but you also don't see everyone here mentioning the character-building GSP has done.


This is what gets me. All we ever hear about is what GSP has done and what hes been through and how skilful he is. If the clip was an 18 year old GSP in the Chinese mountains? Something that nobody knew before? Different reaction I would wager.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

lol, you need to relax. I gave Dan his due in my opening and following posts. I came in to hate on Dana and Dan's trainer... not the same thing. I can't fault Hardy for saying that he has the better stand-up, or that he's going to KO GSP. I mean, what else is he going to say? My problems were with Dana critiquing GSP's game so as to sell the fight and Dan's trainer saying, 'We know when hit, GSP goes down'. I mean, really? GSP's been hit countless times, and only gone down once... and it took a barrage of hits to do it. That's all I was moaning about, lol. No need to get offensive.

I'll respectfully disagree with you, however, about GSP and his trainers getting under Dan's skin. If you can't see that he was noticeably bothered, then I'm not sure what to tell you. 'He doesn't know anything about me' and 'I'd like to punch GSP's trainer in the face' strike me as comments made by a ticked off guy... the look that accompanied said comments suggested frustration. To each his own, though... some people see what others don't, and some people don't see what others do. I also see little reason to jump on GSP for questioning Dan as a mixed martial artist when Dan has, more than once, questioned GSP as a fighter. Seems a bit hypocritical to me... what's good for the goose is good for the gander.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> None of which he has any control over.
> 
> And as for the whole monk bit being pointless? Really? Not interesting at all? At least it was a new bit of info about one of the fighters, amongst the regurgitated rubbish that filled the other 90% of the show. That part, along with the GSP sparing bit... they were interesting, and took up about 3 minutes combined. What a load of shite this show is. I'm not watching it again.



He has no control? 

He should have denied the title fight. 

If he did, he could build him self up legitimately, grow as a fighter, and maybe even have a chance. But since he got greedy and accepted the fight instantly, if he loses he will just fade into nothingness because he won't be getting the big fights. 


And I never said it wasn't interesting. But IMO GSP training with Kru Phil Nurse (his Muay Thai trainer) was a lot more interesting and relevant to the fight. But you don't see GSP fans getting butt-hurt because Hardy fans aren't mentioning it. :confused05:


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> He should have denied the title fight.


Ok... I'm not bothering debating this. Ridiculous.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> Ok... I'm not bothering debating this. Ridiculous.



You don't think fighters have done that before?

Paulo Thiago said if he was offered a shot he wouldn't want it yet.

Junior Dos Santos (before Yvel) said he doesn't want to fight for the belt yet.

Demian Maia said he would have refused the fight until he improved his standup, except if he did then Silva would have NOBODY to fight.

And I'm not 100% sure but I thought I read that Jon Jones said he'd refuse a title fight at this point in his career.



If he loses now (because he accepted a title fight before he was ready), he could easily go the way of Frank Trigg. If he had refused, he could have used his #1 title contender status to get big fights with Alves, Fitch, Paulo and really build himself up. If he had a convincing win over any of them (or especially more than one), he'd have a lot more fans and wouldn't be dismissed in this fight.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> You don't think fighters have done that before?
> 
> Paulo Thiago said if he was offered a shot he wouldn't want it yet.
> 
> ...


Speculative nonsense my friend. None of those fighters has ever been offered a shot. Find me a fighter who has actually turned one down. there must be plenty of examples, no?


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Soojo is right Khov!

Every fighter who gets the ones in a life time opportunity to fight for the belt will never decline it. Maia is the best example right now. 

It's easy to say for the other fighters, that they would turn it down, like Jones for example. But the reality is, they would never do that.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

All well and good saying it, but if Joe Silva and the UFC ring you up and ask you if you want to fight for the title, you're not going to turn it down.


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## AceofSpades187 (Apr 18, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Why has only one person mentioned Dan's visit in China training with the monks. That was ******* amazing and saved the entire show. When i heard and saw that, immediately i just pictured kill bill 2 lol. I loved how Dan just completely shut down GSPS's "hes not a martial artist" rubbish with this as well, it was brilliant.
> 
> Chances of Dan beating GSP in the fight, very slim, but hell, i'll be rooting and cheering for him all night. Dan certainly doesnt lack any confidence and i, am convinced that no matter what, GSP will not break his spirit in this fight, no matter how hard he may get beaten and busted up, Hardy has heart.


LOL i thought the exact same thing Kill Bill for the win:thumbsup:


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

The trip to train with the monks was the best part. Showed real character that most poeple don't have. That takes alot of dedication to go off and do something to better youself in that way.

I want to see Hardy be as successful as possible in the fight. Slim chance of him winning it with GSP's ground work being so strong, but if its not a 5 round Gnp session, Hardy stands a good punchers chance standin. That's what I hope happens, atleast to test GSP's standup a bit, and not another 5 round takedown fest.


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## Skylaars (Jul 13, 2009)

the 2 months Hardy spent in China was cool as ****. I don't think anyone can deny that.

Will this make a difference when he faces GSP? Doubtful. 

Hardy fans appear to be overly sensitive, who gives a **** what people think of him on a internet message board.

Let Hardy shut the haters up himself. That's all that can really be done. If Hardy does beat GSP, then you guys can start pissing and moaning about all the unwarranted hate Hardy received before the fight. Right now all your whining isn't going to do shit. Does Hardy deserve a little more respect, probably, but he's not gonna get it until he really beats someone of significance or gives GSP all he can handle.

and lets be clear, I never hated on Hardy. I simply laughed at the massive discrepancy in talent when it comes to their training partners.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

I don't know for sure that GSP will whup Hardy, although all indicators point that way. This is MMA and its volatile nature is part of the reason we watch it.

Hardy is smrt and funny and sometimes runs his mouth, like anybody might. He has to talk himself up because none of what we're saying, or what the media is saying, is news to him; he knows he's the underdog.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

War Hardy!


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Whatever, I like both GSP and Hardy. I don't know why these things provoke so much animosity amongst fans. Obviously Hardy doesn't have the track record that GSP does, but he has a shot, and thats all that matters.

And yes, those clips of Hardy going to China were great. I like the whole 'true martial artist' debate. It seems that Hardy sees martial arts as a way to 'beat that ass', while GSP sees it as a way of life where 'beating that ass', is the way its is expressed concretely.

Optimally, I would like to see GSP win, and have Hardy train with GSP. But Hardy seems really loyal to his camp.


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## chris&snoop (Feb 12, 2010)

I too enjoyed Hardy's home video of his time with the monks, gave a different view into his past efforts to become a better human being and fighter. 
He did seem pretty pissed off at GSP saying he isnt a Martial Artist, with good reason. Just because Hardy is also a very funny, combustible dude who enjoys riling his opponnents and getting under their skin, doesnt mean he isnt aware of the bigger picture.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

I could be wrong but wasn't it Hardy who said "GSP isn't a fighter, he's just a martial artist" first?


I thought he said that before the second episode. I can definitely relate to that because I'm not at all a violent person and had never gotten into a fight outside of the gym, but inside the gym I'm a whole different person. 

It's hard to tell if a born fighter (a guy maybe like Forrest Griffin?) has the advantage over a naturally passive guy who's dedicated his life to MMA. :thumbsup:


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

honestly GSP gets away with ignorant trash talk cuz ppl like him....

saying Dan Hardy isnt a true martial artist?? then flip to him being trained since 6 years old and going to China on his own at 18 to train with Monks???

hahahha just cuz ppls hero says he isnt a martial artist, all these yes men around the forum world are bigging it up.

FACT. A True Martial Artist wouldnt go out of his way to embarrass somebody with a comment like that, especially when its clear has he NO IDEA about what Dan Hardy has been doing or training, he only knows his UFC fights.

then he says

"I'm not scared of Dan Hardy no matter what. As far as him training with matt serra..I don't care. I don't have any control over what Dan Hardy is doing and I don't try to stress myself over it"

but when he said "i dont care" it was more like yelling with attitude, it seemed obvious he was kinda upset and did care.....

nothing seems from the heart with GSP, JMO

GSP and Anderson are masters of getting "their ppl" be it trainers or managers to do the bigger trash talking for him.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I've seen many a fighter say, 'I'm not ready for a shot' and 'It's too early'... but to actually turn down said shot once it has been offered to them? I'm not sure many of those fighters exist, if any. Dan would have been a fool to turn down a bout with St. Pierre. He may have little chance, but even a long shot is better than no shot. You can't really blame Dan for any of this. Truth be told, it's Dana and the UFC's issue. They really didn't have anyone that GSP hadn't already run through, and how long can they wait while new stars establish themselves? This was a case of needing their champion to fight, and Hardy, sadly, is the sacrificial lamb, albeit a tough, well liked one with plenty of heart. Could he win? Definitely. Will he win? I'm not counting on it. But to say he never should have gone for it? I'm not certain I'd agree with that.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

alizio said:


> honestly GSP gets away with ignorant trash talk cuz ppl like him....
> 
> saying Dan Hardy isnt a true martial artist?? then flip to him being trained since 6 years old and going to China on his own at 18 to train with Monks???
> 
> ...


Sorry about the double post, mods... meh, no I'm not 

I'll agree to an extent. GSP definitely talks a little smack here and there, but I think the thing with St. Pierre is that you really have to instigate trash talking to get some back in return. We've seen GSP fight people like Fitch and Alves and have nothing but kind and respectful things to say. And then we've seen him fight people like Serra and Hardy, who've stirred up a bit of a reaction, even if only on a minor level. Did GSP have some derogatory comments for Hardy? Damn right he did... but all of this comes after a slew of comments from Dan. You say GSP isn't a fighter? Don't get upset when he fires back. You call GSP a Frenchie? Don't get your panties in a twist when he has words for you. I mean... what does Dan really know about St. Pierre...?

I'm not going to sit here and defend him as the choir boy that some make him out to be. It's clear that he's at least somewhat in love with himself outside of the Octagon, and yes, he had some choice comments for Dan last night... but you can't deny that he was provoked. One thing I can say about GSP is that he's very professional, unless someone stirs the pot. And I don't think that anything he had to say last night was out of line, given that Dan mostly had similar comments to make, long before GSP opened his mouth. As I said, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Sorry about the double post, mods... meh, no I'm not
> 
> I'll agree to an extent. GSP definitely talks a little smack here and there, but I think the thing with St. Pierre is that you really have to instigate trash talking to get some back in return. We've seen GSP fight people like Fitch and Alves and have nothing but kind and respectful things to say. And then we've seen him fight people like Serra and Hardy, who've stirred up a bit of a reaction, even if only on a minor level. Did GSP have some derogatory comments for Hardy? Damn right he did... but all of this comes after a slew of comments from Dan. You say GSP isn't a fighter? Don't get upset when he fires back. You call GSP a Frenchie? Don't get your panties in a twist when he has words for you. I mean... what does Dan really know about St. Pierre...?
> 
> I'm not going to sit here and defend him as the choir boy that some make him out to be. It's clear that he's at least somewhat in love with himself outside of the Octagon, and yes, he had some choice comments for Dan last night... but you can't deny that he was provoked. One thing I can say about GSP is that he's very professional, unless someone stirs the pot. And I don't think that anything he had to say last night was out of line, given that Dan mostly had similar comments to make, long before GSP opened his mouth. As I said, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.


 so "true" martial artists are respectful and humble unless you arent?? then they are disrespectful and full of themselves??

well, i guess we are all only human at the end of the day '

GSP and Andy have reputations as "true" martial artists and gentlemen. I find it funny both have a little sidekick that will talk enormous amounts of trash for them without ever having to get in the octogan and it seems the comments are not tied to their fighter whatsoever?? amazing


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

lol, I'm not a martial artist, so I'm not sure how it works. We can't all be Tibetan monks. I've only ever really seen two people get to GSP, and with Serra, all St. Pierre really had to say was, 'He crossed da line'. I'm guessing that Hardy's annoyed Georges more than some are willing to admit, as he's been a tad more vocal in return than we're used to seeing... but as you said, we're all only human. Even that Tibetan monk is going to be gunning for your ass if you say 'Yo momma' once too often.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

It definitely was surprising to see the segment on Hardy training with the Shaolins, but that is only two months plus however long he spent in other countries when GSP has been training Kyukushin Karate at the age of seven continuously until his master died then studied other forms. His dad was his earliest instructor much like Machida. Big difference between someone like Hardy and GSP is the major discipline instilled in them as it's one of the major philosophies to show respect. Hardy has the complete wrong mind frame unless it's all an act, but it doesn't look it. Every school will tell you to never use it unless for self defense. Hardy comes out as a punk (although entertaining) and he wants to hurt people. Alizio would you be proud to have a student like GSP or Hardy? You're a huge proponent of Cain and dude doesn't talk any trash at all. 

It's a funny analogy, but it's like Street Fighter where GSP is Ryu and Hardy is Ken although Machida is probably the real life Ryu as Cold Call can attest to it. One is reserved and the other is brash and arrogant. Both are still martial artists in physical form, but world's apart philosophically.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> It definitely was surprising to see the segment on Hardy training with the Shaolins, but that is only two months plus however long he spent in other countries when GSP has been training Kyukushin Karate at the age of seven continuously until his master died then studied other forms. His dad was his earliest instructor much like Machida. Big difference between someone like Hardy and GSP is the major discipline instilled in them as it's one of the major philosophies to show respect. Hardy has the complete wrong mind frame unless it's all an act, but it doesn't look it. Every school will tell you to never use it unless for self defense. Hardy comes out as a punk (although entertaining) and he wants to hurt people. Alizio would you be proud to have a student like GSP or Hardy? You're a huge proponent of Cain and dude doesn't talk any trash at all.
> 
> It's a funny analogy, but it's like Street Fighter where GSP is Ryu and Hardy is Ken although Machida is probably the real life Ryu as Cold Call can attest to it. One is reserved and the other is brash and arrogant. Both are still martial artists in physical form, but world's apart philosophically.


 i come from a boxing background.... the greatest ever is Ali.... not exactly the spokesperson for anti-trash talk and respect.

The thing is, if you REALLY knew Ali like some ppl got lucky enough to do, or if you ever fought him. You would see he has all the respect in the world for his opponents and is just building up the fight.

I think Hardy likes to have a good time but he has been training since 6 years old, i think he knows a thing or 2 about martial arts.

GSP just takes things way too serious IMO he says he doesnt get offended but it seems he does. He says he wont engage in trash talking but then he does.

I dont think Cain would get invovled because its not an act for him, its his personality. 

But if you pushed the right buttons on his heritage or perhaps his family, im pretty sure the Latino temper would boil out.

Does that make him less of a martial artist tho??

i think ppl have some kinda hollywood idea about respect and honor.]

Honestly, that comment by GSP is much more disrespectful then anything Dan said. He is basically nullifying everything this kid has gone thru his entire life, his dreams and his training. Saying he basically knows nothing.


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## TheAxeMurderer (Oct 27, 2009)

alizio said:


> GSP and Andy have reputations as "true" martial artists and gentlemen. I find it funny both have a little sidekick that will talk enormous amounts of trash for them without ever having to get in the octogan and it seems the comments are not tied to their fighter whatsoever?? amazing


Who exactly is it who talks shit for gsp? I know soares has said some stuff on behalf of anderson but Everything ive seen from gsp has come straight from his own mouth


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

TheAxeMurderer said:


> Who exactly is it who talks shit for gsp? I know soares has said some stuff on behalf of anderson but Everything ive seen from gsp has come straight from his own mouth


 Firas Zahabi his striking coach always has something to say.

Honestly he is only topped by those fat british guys Bisping has in terms of douchebaggery.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

No_Mercy said:


> It definitely was surprising to see the segment on Hardy training with the Shaolins, but that is only two months plus however long he spent in other countries when GSP has been training Kyukushin Karate at the *age of seven *continuously until his master died then studied other forms. His dad was his earliest instructor much like Machida. Big difference between someone like Hardy and GSP is the major discipline instilled in them as it's one of the major philosophies to show respect. Hardy has the complete wrong mind frame unless it's all an act, but it doesn't look it. Every school will tell you to never use it unless for self defense. Hardy comes out as a punk (although entertaining) and he wants to hurt people. Alizio would you be proud to have a student like GSP or Hardy? You're a huge proponent of Cain and dude doesn't talk any trash at all.
> 
> It's a funny analogy, but it's like Street Fighter where GSP is Ryu and Hardy is Ken although Machida is probably the real life Ryu as Cold Call can attest to it. One is reserved and the other is brash and arrogant. Both are still martial artists in physical form, but world's apart philosophically.


 According to the show, Hardy started training in Tae Kwon Do and Muay Thai at the age of 6.


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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

I love it how Serra says GSP HAS to go for the takedown or else he's gonna get ko'd because Hardy's hands are far superior. He will takedown Hardy and try to submit him, so thats what they are working on. It's funny how he says it like it's really going to be that simple to implement lol. 

In reality the striking is probably even and it's not that farfetched to think GSP has the better striking. BJ Penn was absolutely outclassed on the ground by GSP while Hardy was taken down and controlled on the ground by Marcus Davis for most of there fight. So i'm sure it will be as simple as that. lol it's also funny that if GSP decided to go and train with Serra for this show instead of Hardy, Serra would be standing there saying Hardy is in over his head and doesn't have a chance. lol

I realize after reading the other posts here that none of this is really Hardy's or GSP's fault and it's just a show that is used to hype things and edited. But it's crazy the way they edit the show and have the fighters talk in order to get the situation to be perceived in a different way.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

The UFC pushed Hardy for this fight like Andrei Arlovski :thumb02: ppl already think that he is just a small underdog and has the superior striking with one punch KO power. The UFC can make every contender look like the hardest fight so far.


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## TheAxeMurderer (Oct 27, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> The UFC pushed Hardy for this fight like Andrei Arlovski :thumb02: ppl already think that he is just a small underdog and has the superior striking with one punch KO power. The UFC can make every contender look like the hardest fight so far.


its the same situation as diego vs BJ..ufc hyped Diego up to be the second coming but come fight night BJ clearly showed everyone that diego never had a chance..


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

usually when its a cant miss win is when things go left.


I wont be surprised if hardy pulls an upset. especially with all the gsp heavy bets out there....

also if cecil peoples is judging


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

I like the Kata's and Forms out of Hardy.....didnt know he had that aspect to his game....nice mental discipline from the time at The Shoalin Temple...


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

Hardy had a good comeback about him not beein MMA


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

I always wondered if fighter work on some unexpectable trick.. I mean, will be GSP ready for flying arm bar attempt from Hardy? :confused02: 

I seriously become a fan boy of Hardy. What I expect from this fight? That Hardy will not disapoint me. He dosnt need to win to earn my respect. You know what I mean. He claim himself as a person that doesnt break and fight until last breath. Thats what I expect from Hardy. 

Everyone in GSPs fights is slowing down. Extremly. He really can wear his opponent down. I never seen Hardy slowing down in any of his fights. I hope that he will be able to be explosive enough to stand and trade with GSP even in further rounds.

About the KO power. Hardy is no Carwin. Too much credit for that. Anyway does he hit hard? Yes. Can it rock GSP? For sure! Will Hardy capitalize on it? I hope so. (Experience from Swick fight)


PS- To Diego and BJ note. Yes it was insane how Diego was hyped up. But you must admit that BJ looks like different man under Marv.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Atilak said:


> I always wondered if fighter work on some unexpectable trick.. I mean, will be GSP ready for flying arm bar attempt from Hardy? :confused02:
> 
> I seriously become a fan boy of Hardy. What I expect from this fight? That Hardy will not disapoint me. He dosnt need to win to earn my respect. You know what I mean. He claim himself as a person that dont break and fight until last breath. Thats what I expect from Hardy.
> 
> ...


 i asked Tito and he said that triangle choke was all part of his master plan to be the greatest mixed martial artist ever!!! lol either way i guarantee you Machida didnt see that coming haha

im Canadian and im starting to like Hardy. Seems like a genuine guy, some ppl are just to stuffed up these days, this is the fight biz not the gentlemens club. 

do i think he will win?? no. im pretty sure he is gonna earn GSPs and his fans respect tho. i just hope he gives them a scare or two


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Hardy was obviously disturbed by the end of that video. I understand it is edited, and I understand they try to build the fight up. A natural reaction when someone is lying is to look up and towards the opposite side of their natural power (IE Hardy is right handed). Hard looked up and to the left several times when talking shit against GSP. He knows he's outclassed, and he knows he's going to get schooled.

For the record I like Hardy. I like his style and (usually) attitude. But he has no reason to be in the cage with GSP. This is one of those fights that people will think later was just to build a rep/record up for the champ.

Hardy says when he goes into the ring he wants to hurt someone. Guys like GSP never want to truly hurt someone inside the cage. They do this for sport, not violence. I believe this shows character.... and says something about Hardy.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Hardy says when he goes into the ring he wants to hurt someone. Guys like GSP never want to truly hurt someone inside the cage. They do this for sport, not violence. I believe this shows character.... and says something about Hardy.


So, having "character" only applies to people who think nice? GSP has character because he doesn't want to hurt his opponents? But Hardy does want to cause pain so he's a twat?

Newsflash... character is character. Its about strength of your own beliefs and uniqueness of thought. I'm sure Genghis Khan had as much character as Gandhi, know what I mean?


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Hardy was obviously disturbed by the end of that video. I understand it is edited, and I understand they try to build the fight up. A natural reaction when someone is lying is to look up and towards the opposite side of their natural power (IE Hardy is right handed). Hard looked up and to the left several times when talking shit against GSP. He knows he's outclassed, and he knows he's going to get schooled.
> 
> For the record I like Hardy. I like his style and (usually) attitude. But he has no reason to be in the cage with GSP. This is one of those fights that people will think later was just to build a rep/record up for the champ.
> 
> Hardy says when he goes into the ring he wants to hurt someone. Guys like GSP never want to truly hurt someone inside the cage. *They do this for sport, not violence. I believe this shows character.... and says something about Hardy.*


I find this highly ironic when you have Diego Sanchez in your top 5. He goes in there to hurt people. Infact, lots of fighters go in there to hurt people, that is the nature of the sport after all.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

You know everyone has their opinions, but I agree that Hardy's moral character is a contrast with GSP's and that's what makes the fight all the more intriguing. There's always a yin and yang.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

Just watched both parts now and here's my two bits: In fairness, GSP saying Dan isn't a martial artist is complete bullshit, and obviously just a tactic to get under his skin, which he has. Anyone who moves to Northern China when they're 18 to study Shaolin in a forrest after having already studied 2 other forms of martial arts for a combined 12 years is a martial artist, end of story. From what I can see, and maybe this was just the editing, GSP is doing his usual 'ultra athlete' thing, but Dan seems to be concentrating on pure fighting and strength, that leads me to believe he aint goin the 25 mins, and doesn't plan to either, which further makes me think he's just gonna go out and throw everything he's got at GSP in the first 2 or 3 rounds. I still see GSP taking it, he's such a, well, ATHLETE, [he should really try the Olympic route] but I still think Hardy is being sold short by most pundits and keyboard warriors.


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Hardy says when he goes into the ring he wants to hurt someone. Guys like GSP never want to truly hurt someone inside the cage. They do this for sport, not violence. I believe this shows character.... and says something about Hardy.


He doesn't want to hurt anyone, but yet he's fighting.. wait.. wut? I know what you mean though, but if he would feel like that, than he wouldn't say stuff like "I'm going to do whatever it takes", and probably go wrestling, where you don't punch others in the face. Ofcourse, I'm not saying that he goes there with a 'I'm going to break his face' mentality, but... This is a hard thing to discuss, but I doubt that Hardy himself just does MMA to put a hurting on others.


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

Skylaars said:


> GSP is training with Cote, Marquardt, KenFlo, Mousasi.
> 
> Hardy is training with Matt Serra.
> 
> LMAO.


Serra >> Cote + Marquardt + Kenny + Mousasi.


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## morninglightmt (Sep 7, 2008)

Indestructibl3 said:


> Serra >> Cote + Marquardt + Kenny + Mousasi.


niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice

edit: NICE!!!


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Nefilim777 said:


> Just watched both parts now and here's my two bits: In fairness, GSP saying Dan isn't a martial artist is complete bullshit, and obviously just a tactic to get under his skin, which he has. Anyone who moves to Northern China when they're 18 to study Shaolin in a forrest after having already studied 2 other forms of martial arts for a combined 12 years is a martial artist, end of story. From what I can see, and maybe this was just the editing, GSP is doing his usual 'ultra athlete' thing, but Dan seems to be concentrating on pure fighting and strength, that leads me to believe he aint goin the 25 mins, and doesn't plan to either, which further makes me think he's just gonna go out and throw everything he's got at GSP in the first 2 or 3 rounds. I still see GSP taking it, he's such a, well, ATHLETE, [he should really try the Olympic route] but I still think Hardy is being sold short by most pundits and keyboard warriors.


This is 100% my thoughts on the situation. You took the words right out of my mouth about the Shaolin thing too. When I saw that I was like "Really GSP?" I wonder if he just didn't know Hardy's back ground or if he was just trying to get under his skin... 

Either way, I see the fight going pretty much exactly as you stated. Hardy throwing nothing but bombs at GSP for 2-3 rounds and then gassing and GSP possibly subbing him in the 4th. The kid seems ot have an absurd amount of heart though and I think that may be his saving grace in this fight if he has any chance at all. GSP is known for just breaking dudes mentally but I don't think he can do that to Dan. I think regardless of if Dan is gassed, cut and getting whomped on for 5 rounds he's going to bring everything he has for the entire time he's in that cage, and I think that's what makes him a dangerous opponent for GSP. 

Couple Hardy's power, which may not result in single punch clean KOs but it's definitely able to rock people hard, his massive confidence and his heart and hunger and I think he's actually a more dangerous opponent than Fitch was for GSP (*GASP!*). We'll see though, just about a week away


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

Indestructibl3 said:


> Serra >> Cote + Marquardt + Kenny + Mousasi.


Indeed, Serra is the first Gracie black belt in North America, why wouldn't you want to work on your BJJ with him? I hate when people instantly dismiss Matt Serra, complete bullshit. He's obviously not the best fighter out there, but you can't doubt his ground skills at all.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

It was Hardy who started all that by talking shit about GSP not being a fighter yada yada. What GSP said was just in reply to that, and since Hardy is claiming GSP hasn't got the same fighter's mentality, GSP is claiming he hasn't got the same martial artist mentality.

The more I think about it, the more I think what Hardy is saying is just stupid. What sort of fighter does he consider GSP as if he's not a 'real' fighter or whatever term he used? A street fighter? Because if that's what he means then good, because street fighters are usually stupid and unskilled. GSP is a martial artist, a combat fighter. Not a street fighter, a martial artist that goes in the octagon to smash his opponent. Whatever Hardy is implying is ridiculous because GSP has beat the snot out of everyone, including someone who KOd him. That is the sign of a true fighter, a mixed martial artist.

If the whole statement was about enjoying hurting people is what was meant by it then that's just stupid as well. That doesn't make Hardy any more dangerous. GSP clearly enjoys winning fights and putting the beat down on other fighters, but just because he doesn't claim to enjoy harming them clearly makes him no less effective. If we look at their records, GSPs approach clearly has worked better than Hardy's. 

And after all that, Hardy starts moaning about what GSP said, when it was Hardy himself that set the tone for that in the first place. Claiming GSP isn't a fighter is far more ridiculous than GSP claiming Hardy isn't a mixed martial artist, because Hardy had hinted at that himself.

It's about time Hardy woke up and realised you don't need a mohawk and a big mouth to be a threat in the octagon.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

lol, I can't believe that people are getting their panties in a twist over GSP's comments, yet don't at all seem to care about Dan's obvious instigations. I know we're all biased in our own way, but to call out GSP for his 'not a martial artist' jab yet seemingly _agree_ with Dan's 'not a fighter' remark? At least I had enough sense to call BS on both, not allowing my bias to blind me in the process. Dan is clearly a martial artist. I'd never take that away from him. Yet some of you are so quick to agree with Hardy's comments about GSP not being a fighter, but an athlete. It just sounds so ridiculous... an athlete... _not_ a fighter, who dominates other fighters in the fighting game. Yes, you're right. GSP isn't a fighter. He should quit MMA because he's clearly better suited for the olympics. His lack of success in fighting is a clear indicator of this.

/sarcasm


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

Hiro said:


> It was Hardy who started all that by talking shit about GSP not being a fighter yada yada. What GSP said was just in reply to that, and since Hardy is claiming GSP hasn't got the same fighter's mentality, GSP is claiming he hasn't got the same martial artist mentality.
> 
> The more I think about it, the more I think what Hardy is saying is just stupid. What sort of fighter does he consider GSP as if he's not a 'real' fighter or whatever term he used? A street fighter? Because if that's what he means then good, because street fighters are usually stupid and unskilled. GSP is a martial artist, a combat fighter. Not a street fighter, a martial artist that goes in the octagon to smash his opponent. Whatever Hardy is implying is ridiculous because GSP has beat the snot out of everyone, including someone who KOd him. That is the sign of a true fighter, a mixed martial artist.
> 
> If the whole statement was about enjoying hurting people is what was meant by it then that's just stupid as well. That doesn't make Hardy any more dangerous. GSP clearly enjoys winning fights and putting the beat down on other fighters, but just because he doesn't claim to enjoy harming them clearly makes him no less effective. If we look at their records, GSPs approach clearly has worked better than Hardy's.


I don't think anyone's doubting that GSP is a legit fighter. Certainly everyone here knows that. But claiming Hardy isn't a martial artist, as I said before, is also ridiculous on GSP's part.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

Nefilim777 said:


> I don't think anyone's doubting that GSP is a legit fighter. Certainly everyone here knows that. But claiming Hardy isn't a martial artist, as I said before, is also ridiculous on GSP's part.


I know, but the point is Hardy claiming he's some ruthless fighter who enjoys hurting people goes some way to implying he's not a martial artist, so he shouldn't start moaning when GSP retaliates by saying it.

Hardy kick started that little trade off, GSP retaliated in turn and then Hardy cries. I think it's obvious who's looking more ridiculous out of it.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Nefilim777 said:


> I don't think anyone's doubting that GSP is a legit fighter. Certainly everyone here knows that. But claiming Hardy isn't a martial artist, as I said before, is also ridiculous on GSP's part.


Is that why you referred to him as an 'ATHLETE' and suggested he 'try the olympic route'? Because you believe he's a legitimate fighter? Curious as to your previous comments and wanting to flesh them out. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Is that why you referred to him as an 'ATHLETE' and suggested he 'try the olympic route'? Because you believe he's a legitimate fighter? Curious as to your previous comments and wanting to flesh them out. Nothing more, nothing less.


No, I mentioned that because a lot of the training we saw GSP doing in the 2 parts was cardio, loads of running etc. Whereas we saw Hardy doing very little cardio. However I mentioned this was probably just down to editing. I never said GSP wasn't a fighter, I just thought, from watching primetime, that GSP would be well suited to something like the olympics _because_ he's so athletic.


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## Skylaars (Jul 13, 2009)

Nefilim777 said:


> Indeed, Serra is the first Gracie black belt in North America, why wouldn't you want to work on your BJJ with him? I hate when people instantly dismiss Matt Serra, complete bullshit. He's obviously not the best fighter out there, but you can't doubt his ground skills at all.



Nobody is dismissing Serra and his BJJ skills.

GSP's training partners >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hardy's. That's a fact.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Completely off-topic, but I actually wouldn't mind seeing Serra vs. Florian. In fact, I'm now officially ticked off, because you arse-wipes have gotten it in to my head, and it's a fight that'll most likely never take place.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Completely off-topic, but I actually wouldn't mind seeing Serra vs. Florian. In fact, I'm now officially ticked off, because you arse-wipes have gotten it in to my head, and it's a fight that'll most likely never take place.


Definitely! Serra needs to avoid that clinch though!


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## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

I agree with Hardy on one thing. 

I would like to see him knock out Firaz.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> So, having "character" only applies to people who think nice? GSP has character because he doesn't want to hurt his opponents? But Hardy does want to cause pain so he's a twat?


Simply put, yes. I didn't say he doesn't have character, I said it says something about his character. It's a physical sport where people can get hurt. There is a big difference between the guys who want to hurt people, and the guys who want to win. Just because both can cause the same damage doesn't change the means... ie that persons character.



Mckeever said:


> I find this highly ironic when you have Diego Sanchez in your top 5. He goes in there to hurt people. Infact, lots of fighters go in there to hurt people, that is the nature of the sport after all.


You're stretching. This has nothing do with Diego Sanchez. But I'll bite. I like Diego for his mindset. He's halfway crazy and thats what has driven him to success. He trains like a madman and doesn't believe it's possible to lose (well, prior to BJ).


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Let me help everyone......Hardy is def a Martial Artist...so is GSP and he is more well rounded and will win. Thanks donations at the door!!!:thumbsup:


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

plenty of great fighters go in with the mindset of wanting to hurt the other guy.

there is no "proper" way to think in regards to fighting. you might live in a dream world where only the most respectful and sportsmanlike guys win but its often the guy willing to take it to the next level in brutality.

if the skills are even, i would take the guy with the crazier mindset everytime. unfortunately here the skills arent even and i think GSP is willing to hurt ppl he just isnt willing to say it.

Some of the greatest combat practitioners ever went in there with the mindset of wanting to hurt their opponents.

make no bones about it, the person across the octogan is trying to hurt you. trying to hurt you physically, mentally and finicially. Some ppl take grave insult to that. Sport or not.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

alizio said:


> plenty of great fighters go in with the mindset of wanting to hurt the other guy.
> 
> there is no "proper" way to think in regards to fighting. you might live in a dream world where only the most respectful and sportsmanlike guys win but its often the guy willing to take it to the next level in brutality.
> 
> ...


I find that the guys with the best skillsets, I mean elite fighters, don't usually have that hang up of hurting the other guy. I think is a sort of thing that has to do with the ego and gets in the way of training. The argument 'if the skills are even' avoids the point that skills might not be even precisely because of one's mind frame. 

Look at the elite fighters in world. Anderson Silva, Machida, Shogun, GSP, Fedor, Mousasi. They're not crazy and they don't come off as wanting blood but will do what it takes to win. 

I'll take BJ as an exception ('to the death Georges'), but you can see how is ego got in the way of his potential , and how he's changed his game. 

But I agree with you generally. I mean there so many factors out there that determine how good a fighter you are, apart from conscious intent, which is only a minuscule part of your person. I still think at the elite level though, you need that sort of separation and objectivity, to be able to step back and see everything if you need to. This generally won't happen if you have a kind of bloodlust.


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

Iuanes said:


> Look at the elite fighters in world. Anderson Silva, Machida, Shogun, GSP, Fedor, Mousasi. They're not crazy and they don't come off as wanting blood but will do what it takes to win.



Didn't Fedor once say, that when he's looking across the ring at his opponent, he remembers his childhood, when he was poor, and he thinks of his opponent as the one who should pay, or something like that? I think there was a quote something like this in his highlight or something.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Leed said:


> Didn't Fedor once say, that when he's looking across the ring at his opponent, he remembers his childhood, when he was poor, and he thinks of his opponent as the one who should pay, or something like that? I think there was a quote something like this in his highlight or something.


I don't recall ever hearing this, but it would be pretty awesome if he said it. Yeah, it is a little presumptuous to speculate on Fedor's inner world seeing as he keeps so quiet and all that.


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## rushStPierre (Nov 22, 2009)

I don't get why people keep complaining about how Dana and all these other guys keep saying GSP is very vulnerable in his standup and has holes. 

ITS CALLED PROMOTION!

You cannot market a fight between two competitors as one having no chance in hell. Would'nt that make the fight useless? With GSP they will always go to the weaker part of his game(which is still very good), just like they always talk about taking Anderson on the ground, even though we already saw him submit Hendo.

With that said I expect GSP to knock hardy down at least once in this fight just like he did against Alves who was also considered a way better standup fighter.

Yes, them constantly bringing up GSP's standup every fight is annoying as hell but its just to sell the fight. The only way this will stop is for GSP and Silva to get at it already :thumb03:


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

alizio said:


> plenty of great fighters go in with the mindset of wanting to hurt the other guy.
> 
> there is no "proper" way to think in regards to fighting. you might live in a dream world where only the most respectful and sportsmanlike guys win but its often the guy willing to take it to the next level in brutality.
> 
> ...


It makes no difference though. Successful MMA fighters are so because of their skill, not how much they enjoy inflicting pain/damage. I see what you're saying but it still makes no difference, especially in modern MMA. That's why I think Hardy saying it and inviting this little trade with GSP was stupid in the first place, because he ended up whining when GSP retaliated.

I can't help but laugh at the mentality that being mr tough guy instead of mr nice guy is some sort of advantage. GSP, Anderson, Machida and Fedor would tend to disagree with that. Add in there the likes of Shogun too. Hardy's instigating claim was just straight up stupid.

I can't wait for this fight.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Hiro said:


> It makes no difference though. Successful MMA fighters are so because of their skill, not how much they enjoy inflicting pain/damage. I see what you're saying but it still makes no difference, especially in modern MMA. That's why I think Hardy saying it and inviting this little trade with GSP was stupid in the first place, because he ended up whining when GSP retaliated.
> 
> I can't help but laugh at the mentality that being mr tough guy instead of mr nice guy is some sort of advantage. GSP, Anderson, Machida and Fedor would tend to disagree with that. Add in there the likes of Shogun too. Hardy's instigating claim was just straight up stupid.
> 
> I can't wait for this fight.


I disagree...I think it does make a difference it's called motivation...fighting a guy cuz he's next is one thing, fighting a guy that is foaming at the mouth so to say is totally different, it has its pro's and con's.......Hardy is trying to use it as a pro....


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Gonna bring up what I wrote earlier on this forum in regards to both their martial arts background.

"One is reserved and the other is brash and arrogant. Both are still martial artists in physical form, but world's apart philosophically." 

Come to think of it that line GSP said was a great rebuttal and is obviously lingering in Hardy's mind. It'll probably piss him off come fight time cuz all he's going to want to do is bang while GSP incorporates a multi dimensional game plan. 

Yin and yang and that's what makes this countdown exciting!


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

I like my fighters mean...and i hope dan hardy gives gsp a fight....i want hardy to knock his ass out, but chances are slim...most likely we see a 5 round hump fest, and gsp takin the desision.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

JoshKnows46 said:


> I like my fighters mean...and i hope dan hardy gives gsp a fight....i want hardy to knock his ass out, but chances are slim...most likely we see a 5 round hump fest, and gsp takin the desision.


 
Look more for GSP to show some things in the striking dept as kinda a F you to hardy then look for the submission....I dont think this is goin 5....


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

coldcall420 said:


> Look more for GSP to show some things in the striking dept as kinda a F you to hady then look for the submission....I* dont think this is goin 5*....


Not unless GSP breaks an arm and a leg, in which case.............still UD GSP.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

coldcall420 said:


> Look more for GSP to show some things in the striking dept as kinda a F you to hady then look for the submission....I dont think this is goin 5....



gsp has quicker strikes, and i believe he could match up well with hardy in the stand-up, as much as i don't like gsp, he is good everywhere....still, it would be extrely stupid for gsp to stand with hardy at all, hardy has a rock solid chin and KO power, and i believe hardy wont be as scaried of the gsp takedown as much as gsp's previous opponette's were, this is what makes gsp's striking all that much better, dan hardy has nothin to lose, everyone expects him to lose, thats what i think makes him dangerious in this fight.....no doubt gsp can bang with hardy on the feet, but as soon as one punch lands on gsp's face, and he feels hardy's power, its going to the ground.

i defintly don't see gsp pounding out hardy, it would have to be a sub to finish this fight, but i give it a 94% chance its going to a desision, if gsp is the winner.

i also think gsp would have to put hardy to sleep or break something before hardy would tap.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

JoshKnows46 said:


> gsp has quicker strikes, and i believe he could match up well with hardy in the stand-up, as much as i don't like gsp, he is good everywhere....still, it would be extrely stupid for gsp to stand with hardy at all, hardy has a rock solid chin and KO power, and i believe hardy wont be as scaried of the gsp takedown as much as gsp's previous opponette's were, this is what makes gsp's striking all that much better, dan hardy has nothin to lose, everyone expects him to lose, thats what i think makes him dangerious in this fight.....no doubt gsp can bang with hardy on the feet, but as soon as one punch lands on gsp's face, and he feels hardy's power, its going to the ground.
> 
> i defintly don't see gsp pounding out hardy, it would have to be a sub to finish this fight, but i give it a 94% chance its going to a desision, if gsp is the winner.
> 
> i also think gsp would have to put hardy to sleep or break something before hardy would tap.


 
Regardless of not being scared by them, he is training with Serra to avoid them, Serra couldnt.....as far as his chin yes its rock solid and he def has nothing to lose but I think he will be taken down at will if GSP desires...

I fully expect that GSP will put Hardy to sleep....via rear naked....so we can agree to disagree there but one things for sure dude, were in for a good scrap!!!!:thumbsup:


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

coldcall420 said:


> Regardless of not being scared by them, he is training with Serra to avoid them, Serra couldnt.....as far as his chin yes its rock solid and he def has nothing to lose but I think he will be taken down at will if GSP desires...
> 
> I fully expect that GSP will put Hardy to sleep....via rear naked....so we can agree to disagree there but one things for sure dude, were in for a good scrap!!!!:thumbsup:


it doesn't matter who he woulda trained with, he wasn't gonna stop gsp's takedown....serra is a good guy to train with, as he has some of the best bjj in the game, and thats where probable 80%+ of this fight is gonna take place. i'm pretty sure hardy knows this....i just think strikers like bj penn and thiago alves were too defensive when they fought gsp, thats what i mean by hardy won't be scaried, i think he will take he's oppurtunty to be offensive as long as gsp allows him to stand-up....I like that hardy is sureing up his ground game with serra, and i think that will insure this fight goes to a desison, and hardy atleast has a chance at the begining of each of the 5 rounds.....hardy has a little more strength/size than serra, and i think he can get right back up from a few gsp takedowns, like alves did, exept he wont be as defensive in the stand-up as alves was, and he has better hands, while alves was a better kicker, which he couldn't use against gsp for obvious reasons....i personally think hardy is a better match-up than fitch, alves, serra were, but i really don't see a diffrent outcome. i still give hardy more credit than most people, should be a fun fight.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

the fatigue of GSP taking ppl down again and again is what kills their standup.

it will kill Hardys too even if he manages to find a way up once in awhile.

i think we all agree Hardy cant stop the TDs??


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

I feel like people forget that GSP is totally capable of finishing this fight on his feet, it's whether he decides to or not...


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

coldcall420 said:


> I feel like people forget that GSP is totally capable of finishing this fight on his feet, it's whether he decides to or not...


he is capable of it against most fighters, he's strinking is atleast on the same level of hardy's, if not better, he's defintly quicker....but hardy's chin is like stone IMO, and while he might out strike hardy, he won't finish him or even rock him in the stand-up....i personally think it would be crazy for gsp to stand with hardy at all, even to prove a point, cus thats all it would be, it would be like playing chickin with a semi-truck.

i too see gsp standing for a minute or so, don't think its smart, but as soon as he gets hit, he's taking it to the ground....kinda like how swick wanted to go straight to the ground when hardy hit him and he felt his power, exept hardy wont be able to stop the takedown against gsp.

gsp has some of the best striking in all of mma, but since the serra fight, he doesn't wanta risk standing as much. that fight changed him for the better as far as he's record goes...he's not as exciting to me, i much rather'd his stand-up, over his ground n pound, don't think he's ground n pound is that exciting like say a lesner or cain vel's is....i rather'd him, when he wasn't scared to stand-up.

this would be a better fight, if it took place before the serra fight.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

JoshKnows46 said:


> he is capable of it against most fighters, he's strinking is atleast on the same level of hardy's, if not better, he's defintly quicker....*but hardy's chin is like stone IMO*, and while he might out strike hardy, he won't finish him or even rock him in the stand-up....i personally think it would be crazy for gsp to stand with hardy at all, even to prove a point, cus thats all it would be, it would be like playing chickin with a semi-truck.


What beating did Hardy take that makes you think he has an iron chin? He's never been KO'd but he hasn't exactly fought guys with serious power.


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## RFC (Jun 13, 2009)

Just watched this (YES, I'm abit behind) and gotta say I like Dan Hardy more and more. I felt the UFC made GSP sound like a soundclip playing over and over with the line "I am a MARTIAL ARTIST!".

I alwyas love an upset in this sport but I feel GSP will just go that extra mile to grab the victory by submission or decision.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

Life B Ez said:


> What beating did Hardy take that makes you think he has an iron chin? He's never been KO'd but he hasn't exactly fought guys with serious power.


thats why i said IMO, its just a feeling i get watching him fight....he didn't really seem scared of marcus davis's stand-up, and marcus has some power...he literlly laughed at swick's power, not that swick is a powerful dude, but he was just walking trru everything swick thru. rory markham is known for KO power, though we didn't get to see much of that fight...not really great examples, but why would you say he doesn't have a solid chin? i don't think he's ever been rocked, and you could probable make a better argument for him having a great chin than you could him not.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

JoshKnows46 said:


> thats why i said IMO, its just a feeling i get watching him fight....he didn't really seem scared of marcus davis's stand-up, and marcus has some power...he literlly laughed at swick's power, not that swick is a powerful dude, but he was just walking trru everything swick thru. rory markham is known for KO power, though we didn't get to see much of that fight...not really great examples, but why would you say he doesn't have a solid chin? i don't think he's ever been rocked, and you could probable make a better argument for him having a great chin than you could him not.


I didn't say it wasn't solid, but solid and iron are very different things. Dan Henderson has an iron chin, guys that walk through anything. I haven't seen Hardy fight anyone that I think has put you to sleep with a left power, so I can't say Hardy has an Iron chin. I haven't seen anything that makes me say he has glass either, but like I said having a solid chin and an iron one are far different things.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

id say 29 fights and never being KO'd goes along way to saying he has a good chin.

he may not be facing the biggest power punchers in the world but being TKO'd happens all the time, ref just needs to step in.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

Life B Ez said:


> I didn't say it wasn't solid, but solid and iron are very different things. Dan Henderson has an iron chin, guys that walk through anything. I haven't seen Hardy fight anyone that I think has put you to sleep with a left power, so I can't say Hardy has an Iron chin. I haven't seen anything that makes me say he has glass either, but like I said having a solid chin and an iron one are far different things.


idk, Marcus Davis wouldn't fit here?...marcus was a pro boxer, and he has alot of power and hardy went 5 rounds with him...who would hardy have to fight to prove he has a iron chin if a marcus davis fight didn't prove it?..i'm sure they might have some fighters that punch harder than marcus davis at WW, but not by much.

he went alot of fights without getting knocked down, a say thats pretty dam solid, for a guy that wants to stand-up 100% of the time, for every fight. laughing at swicks striking says something to me, even though he's not extremly powerful, he just seems really confident when he's standing.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

JoshKnows46 said:


> idk, Marcus Davis wouldn't fit here?...marcus was a pro boxer, and he has alot of power and hardy went 5 rounds with him...who would hardy have to fight to prove he has a iron chin if a marcus davis fight didn't prove it?..i'm sure they might have some fighters that punch harder than marcus davis at WW, but not by much.
> 
> he went alot of fights without getting knocked down, a say thats pretty dam solid, for a guy that wants to stand-up 100% of the time, for every fight. laughing at swicks striking says something to me, even though he's not extremly powerful, he just seems really confident when he's standing.


 marcus likely has more power and is a better boxer then 85% of the division.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Josh for the most part I think we agree, I think GSP will stand but i think you are correct also, once he needs to or there is a good opportunity he will take Hardy down but I just think he will sub him, thats where we differ I believe....:thumb02:


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Josh for the most part I think we agree, I think GSP will stand but i think you are correct also, once he needs to or there is a good opportunity he will take Hardy down but I just think he will sub him, thats where we differ I believe....:thumb02:


 Team Roughhouse seems to be a bit suspect when it comes to sub defense in the past.

im hoping they are working on it diligantly because training with Serra for a couple weeks isnt gonna be close to enough. Hell, Serra is one of the best BJJ practitioners born in America and he couldnt hang with GSP on the ground....

that being said, Hardy seems like a smart guy. He should be working on his ground more then his standup if he wants to become a more complete fighter.

Same goes for Paul Dalely. But honestly i think Pauls standup is better then Dans.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

JoshKnows46 said:


> idk, Marcus Davis wouldn't fit here?...marcus was a pro boxer, and he has alot of power and hardy went 5 rounds with him...who would hardy have to fight to prove he has a iron chin if a marcus davis fight didn't prove it?..i'm sure they might have some fighters that punch harder than marcus davis at WW, but not by much.
> 
> he went alot of fights without getting knocked down, a say thats pretty dam solid, for a guy that wants to stand-up 100% of the time, for every fight. laughing at swicks striking says something to me, even though he's not extremly powerful, he just seems really confident when he's standing.


I'm not saying Hardy's chin isn't solid. I'm saying I don't see anything that says it's iron, there is a difference. It's not how long a guy fights someone, if you have a glass jaw but don't get hit it doesn't matter that you have a glass jaw. I haven't seen Hardy get tagged yet, so I have no idea what his chin is like. Which is kind of my point. There is no evidence that he has no chin, but there isn't any to say he has a metal chin either. 

He went three with Davis btw, it wasn't a title fight.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> I'm not saying Hardy's chin isn't solid. I'm saying I don't see anything that says it's iron, there is a difference. It's not how long a guy fights someone, if you have a glass jaw but don't get hit it doesn't matter that you have a glass jaw. I haven't seen Hardy get tagged yet, so I have no idea what his chin is like. Which is kind of my point. There is no evidence that he has no chin, but there isn't any to say he has a metal chin either.
> 
> He went three with Davis btw, it wasn't a title fight.


 u havent seen him get tagged but i find it HIGHLY doubtful in 29 pro fights he hasnt been tagged.

his style just makes me think thats an impossiblity. He isnt Machida.


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## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

You could tell that Hardy was bothered by some of the things that GSP was saying about it. He touched on a few things and then the montage came with him in China to follow up the "you don't know anything about me" response. 

That's one of the things that I like about this primetime. I didn't know that Hardy did things like that when he was younger. I honestly thought he was just a punk that got in lots of fights when he was younger (probably did) and turned to MMA to brawl. With Primetime you get to take a better look at this guys which adds a nice touch to the pre-fight.

With that said. I think they could have made this a 1 time, 1 hour primetime special instead of three episodes of similar comments coming from both fighters over and over again.

They are trying to hype this fight big time and you can't blame them for doing it. UFC is a business, they are trying to get the most PPV sales out of this event as possible. I can understand the hype that they are trying to generate, people need to understand that even though this is a mismatch, the UFC is trying to build their business and the sport of MMA. This kinda thing needs to happen in order for MMA to get bigger.

Either way I look at this, GSP destroys Hardy in this one.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

Life B Ez said:


> I'm not saying Hardy's chin isn't solid. I'm saying I don't see anything that says it's iron, there is a difference. It's not how long a guy fights someone, if you have a glass jaw but don't get hit it doesn't matter that you have a glass jaw. I haven't seen Hardy get tagged yet, so I have no idea what his chin is like. Which is kind of my point. There is no evidence that he has no chin, but there isn't any to say he has a metal chin either.
> 
> He went three with Davis btw, it wasn't a title fight.


he didn't really move out of the way of swicks punches, he just takes punches in most of his fight, so i'm sure people connect a good bit in his fights, he's not that elusive, or quick.

obviously 3 rounds, my bad.



alizio said:


> Team Roughhouse seems to be a bit suspect when it comes to sub defense in the past.
> 
> im hoping they are working on it diligantly because training with Serra for a couple weeks isnt gonna be close to enough. Hell, Serra is one of the best BJJ practitioners born in America and he couldnt hang with GSP on the ground....
> 
> ...


Paul daley has the best striking in the division, with gsp and hardy not that far behind.

i have a feeling hardy is a little better on the ground than daley, just a feeling.


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## Uchaaa (Apr 22, 2007)

I still find it laughable that gps fights dan hardy. Gsp by destruction. Lol at hardy eating at a fastfood restaurant.
That much of hype can be damaging to the ufc if hardy loses easily.
But training with defranco means something.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

alizio said:


> u havent seen him get tagged but i find it HIGHLY doubtful in 29 pro fights he hasnt been tagged.
> 
> his style just makes me think thats an impossiblity. He isnt Machida.


But he hasn't exactly fought elite strikers or even elite fighters for that matter. There are plenty of guys out there who had never been hurt before they got in the ring with a elite fighter. Forgive the brit hating, but Bisping comes to mind, never been finished before he fought Hendo.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

coldcall420 said:


> I disagree...I think it does make a difference it's called motivation...fighting a guy cuz he's next is one thing, fighting a guy that is foaming at the mouth so to say is totally different, it has its pro's and con's.......Hardy is trying to use it as a pro....


Not only is that a massive exaggeration but I still think it doesn't matter. GSP doesn't train the way he does for no reason, it's called being motivated and trying to cement a legacy.

If you got one guy who isn't motivated and another who wants his blood then yes there would be an advantage, but that's just not the case. Even if GSP was unmotivated, I'd bet it wasn't down to him not wanting to see serious damage inflicted upon his oppoenent, which as it goes it clearly not what Hardy wants, he's just talking himself up.

This whole concept is ridiculous and GSP will show that when he smashes Hardy next week.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

I can't believe there's even this much debate going on about this fight. I like Hardy, but he doesn't stand a chance in hell. Most of the people who support Hardy are repping him badly by the moronic things their saying on here.

GSP by murder, first round. I wish this fight was tomorrow to save Hardy a little bit more face and end this argument (or lack there of).


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I can't believe there's even this much debate going on about this fight. I like Hardy, but he doesn't stand a chance in hell. Most of the people who support Hardy are repping him badly by the moronic things their saying on here.
> 
> GSP by murder, first round. I wish this fight was tomorrow to save Hardy a little bit more face and end this argument (or lack there of).


 yes and then theres ppl like you repping GSP so respectfully :sarcastic12: im sure he would be proud. murder indeed. hardy should be disgraced for even daring to want to fight him??

either way. There isnt much at WW but rematches. Hardy didnt make the UFC give him a title shot, they choose him. Why hate on him for that??


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I can't believe there's even this much debate going on about this fight. I like Hardy, but he doesn't stand a chance in hell. Most of the people who support Hardy are repping him badly by the moronic things their saying on here.
> 
> GSP by murder, first round. I wish this fight was tomorrow to save Hardy a little bit more face and end this argument (or lack there of).


It's not really debate over who is going to win, but how much of a chance Hardy has, it's a toss up between, Snowballs chance in hell and none with a few crazies saying less than 1%.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Hiro said:


> Not only is that a massive exaggeration but I still think it doesn't matter. GSP doesn't train the way he does for no reason, it's called being motivated and trying to cement a legacy.
> 
> If you got one guy who isn't motivated and another who wants his blood then yes there would be an advantage, but that's just not the case. Even if GSP was unmotivated, I'd bet it wasn't down to him not wanting to see serious damage inflicted upon his oppoenent, which as it goes it clearly not what Hardy wants, he's just talking himself up.
> 
> This whole concept is ridiculous and GSP will show that when he smashes Hardy next week.


 

Im not sure what your even trying to convey here???:confused02: What I was trying to say was that regardless if you have a guy that is legit pissed off fighting another guy that is looking at his opponent as just another opponent, there is an advantage to the guy thats genuine pissed....

I didnt state who this was or is, however FTR I have GSp winning this fight, pretty much where ever he wants....


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

JoshKnows46 said:


> he didn't really move out of the way of swicks punches, he just takes punches in most of his fight, so i'm sure people connect a good bit in his fights, he's not that elusive, or quick.
> 
> obviously 3 rounds, my bad.
> 
> ...


I would argue GSP is a better striker than Daley just not as powerful. I would also argue that Alves is a better striker than Hardy and would honestly question if Hardy could even out strike Kos.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

You guys are talking about striking like GSP is going to use his karate or something, are you plumb loco?

Believe me, I'd jump for joy if he did, but I thought we were all in agreement that he now fights not to lose, rather than to win. Therefore he will try to take it to the ground ASAP, right?


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

swpthleg said:


> You guys are talking about striking like GSP is going to use his karate or something, are you plumb loco?
> 
> Believe me, I'd jump for joy if he did, but I thought we were all in agreement that he now fights not to lose, rather than to win. Therefore he will try to take it to the ground ASAP, right?



Well you could have argued the same thing with Alves... however he stood with Alves for a while too - and won that battle might I add.

Alves' striking I believe is superior to Hardy, which again brings up the question as to how he got the shot.

Again.... I like Hardy. I would have just rather seen him fight more legit guys (like Alves did) before they gave him the shot.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Toxic said:


> I would argue GSP is a better striker than Daley just not as powerful. I would also argue that Alves is a better striker than Hardy and would honestly question if Hardy could even out strike Kos.


 
I didn't think Alves was the better of the 2 striker in his fight with GSP, and GSP showed that, not to mention GSP took him down 11 times in that fight. GSP had the reach, I think he will against Hardy(not sure would love to know where to find those numbers) so using MMA math if Alves has better striking than Hardy....uh yeah....

I think Sweep, that GSP will stand for a lil longer than some think to try and show Hardy he isn't afraid, i also think Hardy will no doubt leave an opening that GSP will not be able to turn down and at that point the fight hits the mat.

Then the question becomes can GSP sub him or will he hump him......I think he can sub him....I think he plans on using his Jitz to do it.....:thumbsup:


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> GSP had the reach, I think he will against Hardy(not sure would love to know where to find those numbers)


Dan Hardy: 74.0 in (188 cm)

GSP: 76.0 in (193 cm) 

Wikipedia is your friend CC


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

If I wasn't saving my pennies for Machida v Shogun 2, I'd have my money on GSP via extended humping.


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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

Honestly hearing everybody talk about this so much pressures my view to feel like this fight will be pretty competitive. 

But it will probably be just like any other GSP fight. Everybody will be waiting in anticipation just because how hyped up this fight is and be ready for a war. Then by the end of the second round it will become apparent that this is just like any other GSP fight, and Hardy will get outclassed in every single area and possibly submitted or tko'd. I mean anything is possible, but that is most likely how this fight will play out imo.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> Dan Hardy: 74.0 in (188 cm)
> 
> GSP: 76.0 in (193 cm)
> 
> Wikipedia is your friend CC


 
GSP just work that jab and establish a base and you can win this fight on your feet....


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Well you could have argued the same thing with Alves... however he stood with Alves for a while too - and won that battle might I add.
> 
> Alves' striking I believe is superior to Hardy, which again brings up the question as to how he got the shot.
> 
> Again.... I like Hardy. I would have just rather seen him fight more legit guys (like Alves did) before they gave him the shot.


Hardy should have at least fought Fitch or Kos first. I don't think his TDD would have let him get past either of those guys. But I think WW is just so stacked the UFC doesn't want the top guys knocking each other off and leaving no one to fight GSP that we haven't seen yet. So I expect a few guys to get premature title shots at WW, before all is said and done.


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## hommage1985 (Apr 22, 2007)

The UFC can't fool me into thinking this will be competitive. Hardy is average. GSP is great. GSP has better stand up, better cardio, better ground game, stronger, faster and has better technical skills. This fight ends when ever GSP is bored of beating this guy.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

It was the perfect situation to give a British fighter a title shot. The main reason is marketing!


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

hommage1985 said:


> The UFC can't fool me into thinking this will be competitive. Hardy is average. GSP is great. GSP has better stand up, better cardio, better ground game, stronger, faster and has better technical skills. This fight ends when ever GSP is bored of beating this guy.


You an me both.


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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

Also as far as the whole GSP is more of an athlete than a fighter argument...Wouldn't being such a great athlete, only make him an even BETTER FIGHTER!? So every person that GSP competes against that isn't the same type of athlete, is goint to have a harder time FIGHTING HIM. Seriously...


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Lets be honest I doubt anyone in MMA is as much of a born fighter as BJ Penn. BJ Penn is the prodigy for a reason, the fact is that BJ mailed it in without taking training seriously for years and was champion in two diffrent weight classes before he started getting serious. Nobody can say BJ Penn is not a born fighter, BJ is ten million times the born fighter Dan Hardy could even imagine ever being. He still lost. Dan will lose an embarrassingly one sided fight and Hardy will fade back to gatekeeper status if he is lucky.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Lets be honest I doubt anyone in MMA is as much of a born fighter as BJ Penn. BJ Penn is the prodigy for a reason, the fact is that BJ mailed it in without taking training seriously for years and was champion in two diffrent weight classes before he started getting serious. Nobody can say BJ Penn is not a born fighter, BJ is ten million times the born fighter Dan Hardy could even imagine ever being. He still lost. Dan will lose an embarrassingly one sided fight and Hardy will fade back to gatekeeper status if he is lucky.


bj penn is alot smaller than dan hardy...bj penn is alot more skilled than hardy, but skill doesn't help when you have a guy as large as gsp on top of you.

bj penn would beat dan hardy and probable every other fighter in the ww division, that doesn't mean hardy won't beat gsp, the two have nothing to do with each other.

gsp is gonna most likely run thru hardy like he would do against anyone else in the WW division, so why complain about the fight, when its the same outcome no matter who is in the position...who has a better shot than hardy, like really?

gsp already beat the shit out of koscheck and fitch...

and you said alves has better striking than hardy, offcourse thats your opinion, but you'd be wrong there. (hardy tools both koscheck and alves in a pure striking match)

you also said gsp has better striking than daley, you might be right there, gsp is very atletic, and quick....but if you takeaway the takedowns, he's striking obviously wouldn't be as dynamic, not that it still wont be dynamic, just not as much when a opponette doesn't have to constantly be slowed down, and worrying about defending against it, and not overcommiting...in a pure striking match, daley obviously wins, not becuase he's striking is that much better, just becuase he'd ko gsp before getting ko'd. (if you take away daley's power, i say they are about even technically, maybe gsp got the slight edge.) but with daleys power, doesn't matter how much technic you got, only takes one punch.


----------



## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

towwffc said:


> Also as far as the whole GSP is more of an athlete than a fighter argument...Wouldn't being such a great athlete, only make him an even BETTER FIGHTER!? So every person that GSP competes against that isn't the same type of athlete, is goint to have a harder time FIGHTING HIM. Seriously...


There's a difference between being an athlete and a fighter. If you have traits of both, yes they help each other immensely, but if you're lacking a fighter's heart, killer instinct or will to win in a fight it doesn't matter how good of an athlete you are. Only half of MMA is the physical part, the other half is mental and determined by your will to keep pushing when you're getting stomped on. 

I have a feeling this is something we'll see in a prime example when Mir and Lesnar fight again. Lesnar is a freak athlete but to me he seems to be in this for the money, not the love of competition. When fighters fight for money they tend to lose that killer instinct and that will to win (EX: Chuck at the ladder part of his career, Rampage lately, Houston Alexander, Clottey vs Pac). I think Brock falls into that catagory because he doesn't know what it's like to lose. I think when Mir puts some pressure on him in their next fight and hits him hard a couple times his mentality is going to crack really easy. This is was Hardy is expecting out of GSP. The problem with that is that GSP IS a fighter, he's shown that over and over against Fitch (won't quit), Alves(injured), Hughes (actually challenged him, beat him once) and countless others.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

JoshKnows46 said:


> and you said alves has better striking than hardy, offcourse thats your opinion, but you'd be wrong there. (hardy tools both koscheck and alves in a pure striking match)
> 
> you also said gsp has better striking than daley, you might be right there, gsp is very atletic, and quick....but if you takeaway the takedowns, he's striking obviously wouldn't be as dynamic, not that it still wont be dynamic, just not as much when a opponette doesn't have to constantly be slowed down, and worrying about defending against it, and not overcommiting...in a pure striking match, daley obviously wins, not becuase he's striking is that much better, just becuase he'd ko gsp before getting ko'd. (if you take away daley's power, i say they are about even technically, maybe gsp got the slight edge.) but with daleys power, doesn't matter how much technic you got, only takes one punch.



Ugh, this post...

Hardy would tool Thiago Alves in a "pure striking match"? Are you saying that Hardy would lose to Alves in an MMA match because of his... take-downs? Wrestling? :confused03:

Thiago's Muay Thai is leagues ahead of Hardy's overall striking. Alves has far better low mid and high kicks, much more power in his hands, better defense, and an unrankably superior clinch game, much more effective knees, and much more devastating elbows. 

And you mentioned he'd tool Koscheck AND Alves in a pure striking match...what's the point in mentioning Koscheck here?

As far as Daley and GSP being technically equal in terms of striking... that's crazy. But let's just watch Daley vs Koscheck before making any judgments.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> Ugh, this post...
> 
> Hardy would tool Thiago Alves in a "pure striking match"? Are you saying that Hardy would lose to Alves in an MMA match because of his... take-downs? Wrestling? :confused03:
> 
> ...


dude, here's the reason your whole bar is RED. :thumbsup:

Alves has kicks, thats all he has, and some little short arms, hardy would out box him all day....and i didn't say hardy would lose to him in a mma match, he would beat him worse in a mma match, not like either guy would want to go to the ground anyway.

guy i was speaking to said koscheck would outstrike hardy, thats why i mentioned him.

lets watch koscheck before we make judgement??...i have koscheck winning that fight against daley, if he's smart. (i hope he's not smart though, and trys to stand with daley.)


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

So someone negative repped me saying "at least have the courage to leave a name next time. cowardly lion" on a post that definitely didn't deserve a negative rep. The ironic thing was that this person also didn't leave their name. LAWL at irony.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Daley is a monster and could knock out anyone in the WW division if given ample opportunity. Kampmann is a very solid striker and he looked compeltly incompetent against Daley.

Alves would tool Hardy standing, Koscheck is the most underrated striker in the WW division by far, he is showing crisper and crisper striking in every fight and I absolutely believe he is a better striker than Hardy. Hardy is a mediocre striker who just a had all the stars align right for him to get a shot. Hardy is only getting a shot because Mike Swick put together a string of victories over relative nobodies and became the #1 contender before running into Hardy who exposed how ridiculously overrated Swick was and also that well Swick is kinda chinny.


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## hommage1985 (Apr 22, 2007)

towwffc said:


> Also as far as the whole GSP is more of an athlete than a fighter argument...Wouldn't being such a great athlete, only make him an even BETTER FIGHTER!? So every person that GSP competes against that isn't the same type of athlete, is goint to have a harder time FIGHTING HIM. Seriously...


People said the same thing about Roy Jones in his prime that he was just an athlete. People should concentrate on becoming better athletes since GSP and Roy Jones have made good and great fighters look like amatuers while dominating them.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Koscheck is the most underrated striker in the WW division by far, he is showing crisper and crisper striking in every fight and I absolutely believe he is a better striker than Hardy.



For serious???? Now I really want to see Koscheck vs Hardy happen. I don't see how Koscheck's limited time striking, his looping right happy game is better than Hardy's, 'since he was 6 years old' stand up. I know this isn't all that matters but man, convince me, please.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Daley is a monster and could knock out anyone in the WW division if given ample opportunity. Kampmann is a very solid striker and he looked compeltly incompetent against Daley.
> 
> Alves would tool Hardy standing, Koscheck is the most underrated striker in the WW division by far, he is showing crisper and crisper striking in every fight and I absolutely believe he is a better striker than Hardy. Hardy is a mediocre striker who just a had all the stars align right for him to get a shot. Hardy is only getting a shot because Mike Swick put together a string of victories over relative nobodies and became the #1 contender before running into Hardy who exposed how ridiculously overrated Swick was and also that well Swick is kinda chinny.




koscheck's stand-up has come a long way, but he over commits with his big loopin right hands, thats why thiago caught him...he doesn't have the chin to over commit the way he does, he leaves himself open alot...hardy would put him to sleep.

i also think your overrating thiago here, he has sick leg kicks, but he would not tool hardy in the stand-up...i wanta see this fight now....thiago would lose the stand-up.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Iuanes said:


> For serious???? Now I really want to see Koscheck vs Hardy happen. I don't see how Koscheck's limited time striking, his looping right happy game is better than Hardy's, 'since he was 6 years old' stand up. I know this isn't all that matters but man, convince me, please.


Training since you were a baby doesn't make you better I golfed from the time I was very young till into my teens but I am still a mediocre golfer and won't be joining the PGA tour, show me where Hardy's striking looks that impressive. Not where he hit hard cause I am not disputing that, show me where he looks great. Kos outstruck Rumble pretty convincingly IMO and held his own against Alves despite having very little time to prepare and every time we see Koschek he just looks better and better. I cannot possibly voice how overrated I think Dan Hardy is. 

List of fighters in the UFC WW division who I think could beat Dan Hardy.

GSP
Jon Fitch
Thiago Alves
Josh Koschek
Paul Daley
Ricardo Almedia
Anthony Johnson
Matt Hughes
Matt Serra
Martin Kampmann
Carlos Condit
Amir Sadollah
Dong Hyun Kim

I don't even think Hardy is a top ten WW in the UFC, hell he is lucky if he is top 15.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Hardy vs. Amir would be the balls.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Training since you were a baby doesn't make you better I golfed from the time I was very young till into my teens but I am still a mediocre golfer and won't be joining the PGA tour, show me where Hardy's striking looks that impressive. Not where he hit hard cause I am not disputing that, show me where he looks great. Kos outstruck Rumble pretty convincingly IMO and held his own against Alves despite having very little time to prepare and every time we see Koschek he just looks better and better. I cannot possibly voice how overrated I think Dan Hardy is.
> 
> List of fighters in the UFC WW division who I think could beat Dan Hardy.
> 
> ...


You missed Paulo Thiago on your list buddy.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I did thanks.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Training since you were a baby doesn't make you better I golfed from the time I was very young till into my teens but I am still a mediocre golfer and won't be joining the PGA tour, show me where Hardy's striking looks that impressive. Not where he hit hard cause I am not disputing that, show me where he looks great. Kos outstruck Rumble pretty convincingly IMO and held his own against Alves despite having very little time to prepare and every time we see Koschek he just looks better and better. I cannot possibly voice how overrated I think Dan Hardy is.
> 
> List of fighters in the UFC WW division who I think could beat Dan Hardy.
> 
> ...


I don't doubt that Hardy would get beat by a great number of welterweights, but put him in a kickboxing match and he would outstrike most of the division.

Koscheck has shown a lack of standup defence. Rumble Johnson is more overrated than Hardy and I wouldn't say he got dominated in the standup against Kos. He's got his notoriety from epic matches against Kevin Burns. I really think Koscheck's stand-up is made effective from the ever present fear of his takedown ability, combined with his ability not to be taken down.

And show me where you've been impressed by Koscheck's stand up? Knocking out Yoshida? He has power, he has improved drastically since his TUF days but he isn't even close to being as technically good as Hardy. Who, by the way, has only lost by decisions and submissions and whose last 3 victories have been wins against primarily striking opponents, whom he outstruck.

In any case, hopefully time will tell how good Hardy is, I do generally agree that most of the WW division would put him on his ass.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Training since you were a baby doesn't make you better I golfed from the time I was very young till into my teens but I am still a mediocre golfer and won't be joining the PGA tour, show me where Hardy's striking looks that impressive. Not where he hit hard cause I am not disputing that, show me where he looks great. Kos outstruck Rumble pretty convincingly IMO and held his own against Alves despite having very little time to prepare and every time we see Koschek he just looks better and better. I cannot possibly voice how overrated I think Dan Hardy is.
> 
> List of fighters in the UFC WW division who I think could beat Dan Hardy.
> 
> ...


WOW

gsp obviously

fitch,koscheck, daley, alves could beat him, but it would be competive, but the rest NO....i'm pretty sure he'd beat alves.,,,koscheck, daley fighs would be a toss up....fitch would proable beat him.


:confused02:

come on now, he's a top 5 WW in the ufc. I don't even think this is questionable.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Toxic said:


> List of fighters in the UFC WW division who I think could beat Dan Hardy.
> 
> GSP
> Jon Fitch
> ...


I agree Toxic :thumbsup:

I would say Hardy goes 2:12 against all of them!


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

JoshKnows46 said:


> WOW
> 
> gsp obviously
> 
> ...


They all could, are you saying Hardy would always beat them?

I would favor Hardy against Almedia, Hughes, Serra, Condit, and Sadollah but they all have a chance to beat him. Hughes could just out wrestle Hardy for a decision, Almedia might be able to submit Hardy, Sadollah might have a competitive stand-up war against Hardy and eek a decision out, etc.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

Rated said:


> They all could, are you saying Hardy would always beat them?
> 
> I would favor Hardy against Almedia, Hughes, Serra, Condit, and Sadollah but they all have a chance to beat him. Hughes could just out wrestle Hardy for a decision, Almedia might be able to submit Hardy, Sadollah might have a competitive stand-up war against Hardy and eek a decision out, etc.


obviously they all have a chance, anyone has a chance...i'd heavily favor hardy in each of those fights, and i'd rank him above those fighters..i don't think hughes could out wrestle hardy, i think he has dropped off alot...almedia could defintly submit him if he could get the fight there, but i don't think he would.

i like sadollah, but i don't think he would outstrike hardy. (thinking about it, this would be a fun fight though)

fitch,gsp, and koscheck could beat him becuase they could outwrestle him. (think he could keep it standing and win against the rest)

daley,gsp could beat him becuase they could outstrike him. (think he could outstrike the rest) again, this is just who i'd favor if they fought, not who's gonna for sure win, lol.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Training since you were a baby doesn't make you better I golfed from the time I was very young till into my teens but I am still a mediocre golfer and won't be joining the PGA tour, show me where Hardy's striking looks that impressive. Not where he hit hard cause I am not disputing that, show me where he looks great. Kos outstruck Rumble pretty convincingly IMO and held his own against Alves despite having very little time to prepare and every time we see Koschek he just looks better and better. I cannot possibly voice how overrated I think Dan Hardy is.
> 
> List of fighters in the UFC WW division who I think could beat Dan Hardy.
> 
> ...


 

So your saying you bet Hardy????


Seriously though I think you could make the Canadian Tour.....:confused05: I must admit Toxic has a great point here and really this is what i love about this forum and the UFC PPV Countdowns......they make guys that aren't that good....GREAT!!! Like Kongo(mid level fighter) look and sound like some 1 punch devastating striker.....look what Mir did to him....people on the forum had Kongo owning Mir...I was like that nuts....Alves is gonna beat GSP....sure he wasnt, but a lot of people thought up to the fight that he was with that winning streak......NOPE

So many people were on Kongo and hating on Mir hell I won Sig bets Mir would out strike Kongo, and sub him......BAM!!!


The point is stop believing every thing you see, cuz perception is only part of what the reality is.......GSP....is going to beat the dog shit out of Dan Hardy....then everyone is going to be all over GSP's nuts again and there will be no talk of Dan Hardy except who a next good fight would be to try and bounce back...


I like seeing Hardy train with bigger guys at Serra's.....GSP is doing the same thing.....:thumbsup:

4 Million easy on GSP.....


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

JoshKnows46 said:


> obviously they all have a chance, anyone has a chance...i'd heavily favor hardy in each of those fights, and i'd rank him above those fighters..i don't think hughes could out wrestle hardy, i think he has dropped off alot...almedia could defintly submit him if he could get the fight there, but i don't think he would.
> 
> i like sadollah, but i don't think he would outstrike hardy. (thinking about it, this would be a fun fight though)
> 
> ...


Well yeah, but Hardy has hardly dominated anyone in the UFC besides Markham. I never saw the Gono fight but apparently it was very close. He definitely deserved the win against Davis but it was competitive. He beat Swick too but it was by decision whereas someone like Paulo finished him.

I think what Toxic is saying is that Hardy is a good fighter but he is not a clear cut favorite by any means. I'm impressed by Hardy's improvements in each of his fights but I'm not 100% sold on him yet either (IMO he got the title shot because he was in the right place at the right time). I'll have to see how well he does against GSP.


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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

TraMaI said:


> There's a difference between being an athlete and a fighter. If you have traits of both, yes they help each other immensely, but *if you're lacking a fighter's heart, killer instinct or will to win in a fight it doesn't matter how good of an athlete you are*. Only half of MMA is the physical part, the other half is mental and determined by your will to keep pushing when you're getting stomped on.
> 
> I have a feeling this is something we'll see in a prime example when Mir and Lesnar fight again. Lesnar is a freak athlete but to me he seems to be in this for the money, not the love of competition. When fighters fight for money they tend to lose that killer instinct and that will to win (EX: Chuck at the ladder part of his career, Rampage lately, Houston Alexander, Clottey vs Pac). I think Brock falls into that catagory because he doesn't know what it's like to lose. I think when Mir puts some pressure on him in their next fight and hits him hard a couple times his mentality is going to crack really easy. This is was Hardy is expecting out of GSP. The problem with that is that GSP IS a fighter, he's shown that over and over against Fitch (won't quit), Alves(injured), Hughes (actually challenged him, beat him once) and countless others.


I don't understand what you said there. A fighters heart? What makes having an unbreakable will automaticaly mean having a fighters heart? Maybe some fighters can't have the heart of an athlete.

For example, did BJ Penn have a fighters heart, when he coudn't even be disciplined enough to train. While an athlete like Lance Armstrong was fighting cancer to comeback and win the Tour De France again? Or if you want to stick to fighting, any of the fighters who did always train hard day in and day out while BJ was coasting on his natural talent. Yet most will say BJ has a fighters heart that most can't compare to, but based on what? The fact that he didn't tap while Hughes was punching him in the face? He may not have been in that position at all if he would have trained so he wouldn't gas. 

There is no such thing as a fighters heart. There are pro golfers who probably have a stronger will than some pro fighters. Does this mean the golfer has more of a fighters heart than an actual fighter? We are all just human beings man, and based on our experiences, perceptions, and beliefs some can be broken physically or mentally easier than others.

In all honesty, GSP has proved himself to be a fighter more than Hardy up to this point, because we haven't even seen Hardy hurt yet. So regaurdless of the training he did with the monks or whatever, I wouldn't be suprised to see Dan's will fade in this fight the same way all of the other tough fighters did fighting GSP. The only fighter to not fade against GSP lately was Jon Fitch, and that proves he is just one tough S.O.B. But I guess his "fighters heart" just wasn't enough...


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

JoshKnows46 said:


> dude, here's the reason your whole bar is RED. :thumbsup:
> 
> Alves has kicks, thats all he has, and some little short arms, hardy would out box him all day....and i didn't say hardy would lose to him in a mma match, he would beat him worse in a mma match, not like either guy would want to go to the ground anyway.
> 
> ...



My rep is red because of one admin used his power to hit me with one neg rep and turn me red. I was on another level for months and months before that and will be again.


Let me ask you this: what striking knowledge do you have? I've been training Thai Boxing full time for three years now and the last year I've been at Castricone Kickboxing gym, under a coach who helped train Thiago Alves and Rampage. I live to study effective strikers and spend a pretty considerable amount of time doing so.

Alves has perfect kicks, unreal power and accuracy in his hands, shogun-esque blocks and head movement and the best footwork at WW. And he's one of the most technically sound MT strikers in all of MMA.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Alves has perfect kicks, unreal power and accuracy in his hands, shogun-esque blocks and head movement and the best footwork at WW. And he's one of the most technically sound MT strikers in all of MMA.


What do you think about Hardy, in terms of striking?


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Oh......I thought we were meant to use this thread as a showcase for our personal striking pedigrees. Never mind.

If you got negged and turned red, maybe someone was just returning the favor. Karma, etc etc.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

swpthleg said:


> Oh......I thought we were meant to use this thread as a showcase for our personal striking pedigrees. Never mind.
> 
> If you got negged and turned red, maybe someone was just returning the favor. Karma, etc etc.


It's fair when you use your honestly earned rep points. And striking pedigrees is pretty relevant to this thread. If you're a keyboard warrior saying Thiago Alves is sloppy or "only has kicks," it's relevant.



Iuanes said:


> What do you think about Hardy, in terms of striking?


I think Hardy has alright hands and pretty good angles. Sometimes he seems so cocky that he's not afraid of getting hit and it will probably cause him a lot of trouble against GSP (sort of like BJ vs Diego).

Honestly I think he's just about even with Davis as far as striking goes. I had only watched that fight twice so I checked the fight metric:

http://fightmetric.com/fights/Hardy-Davis.html

I think FM agrees with me that they're just about even.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> My rep is red because of one admin used his power to hit me with one neg rep and turn me red. I was on another level for months and months before that and will be again.
> 
> 
> Let me ask you this: what striking knowledge do you have? I've been training Thai Boxing full time for three years now and the last year I've been at Castricone Kickboxing gym, under a coach who helped train Thiago Alves and Rampage. I live to study effective strikers and spend a pretty considerable amount of time doing so.
> ...


 
I think thats a bit much.....he was out struck by GSP, and he was supposed to do that to GSP.....


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

coldcall420 said:


> I think thats a bit much.....he was out struck by GSP, and he was supposed to do that to GSP.....


People on this forum need to realize just how high of a level GSP's striking is on, being out struck by GSP is nothing to be ashamed about.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

GSP's muay thai is outstanding. It's actually beautiful in the same way that Michael Jordan's (pre-Wizards) game was, in my opinion. As far as it's overall effectiveness, I would only give him a grade of B or B+ among top contenders at 170 lbs. 

There are two reasons why I don't give him an A. First, we don't get to see much of it. This is obviously because his wrestling is so far superior to anyone else's at 170 lbs. it would be foolish for him not to utilize this part of his game as much as possible.

Also, GSP's striking can look much better than it actually is at times, especially after the first round. His opponents are often so worn out from his wrestling after the first round alone, they are unable to defend themselves properly, or to initiate an offense in the way they normally do against other opponents. BJ Penn and Matt Serra come to mind immediately. As does Alves, among others. 

Also, GSP's standup defense is less than perfect. BJ Penn and Serra have both done significant damage against GSP with outstanding first round striking, when GSP was not looking to wrestle. 

GSP's stand up is first rate, no doubt (among UFC elite, only Shogun Rua's fluidity and grace standing compares with GSP's), but it's so far overshadowed by his wrestling, and given the holes in his standup defense, I "only" rate it a "B+" overall...


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Honestly I think the myth that GSP can only strike because people are scared of his TD's is BS. If this is all true I have yet to hear anyone explain why GSP was considered the future of the sport back when he was considered predominantly a striker and before he ever became a wrestling machine.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Thiago Alves wasn't able to showcase his striking skills because of the takedowns. GSP neutralized it...completely. That's what good players do. Someone mentioned Jordan. If you guard him to close he'll drive on you, give him an inch of space he'll bust a three, then next thing you know he'll do a fade away. 

With that being said, Marcus should have won. He let Hardy get into his head so he fought with too much emotion and got careless. GSP is probably the most versatile WW striker he just doesn't utilize it as much as we would all like to see.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Toxic said:


> People on this forum need to realize just how high of a level GSP's striking is on, being out struck by GSP is nothing to be ashamed about.


 
All I hear is how everyone in that divisions is better.....I disagree, and have for a while....


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Honestly I think the myth that GSP can only strike because people are scared of his TD's is BS. If this is all true I have yet to hear anyone explain why GSP was considered the future of the sport back when he was considered predominantly a striker and before he ever became a wrestling machine.


he was always a great striker, but he's wrestling does make him a better striker now.....look at the first bj penn fight, and then look at the 2nd bj penn fight, when penn had to worry about the takedown, you will see the diffrence. :thumbsup:

(gsp and daley are hands down the two best strikers in the division)


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

God. Its endless isnt it, this de-constructing and pissing on from great height of Hardys striking skills.

You know what. You all have a point. Its completely sensible to say GSP's striking is better than Hardys. So is Alves. So is many others in the division. I dont agree with either side of the argument. In his 4 UFC fights and whatever bits and bobs of Hardys previous fights ive managed to watch, I still cant conclude what Hardys limits are. He clearly takes damage to strike back. Hes admitted thats his style. Sounds crude if you ask me, but makes him great to watch.

Having said all that, having good striking and having effective striking are not completely interchangeable. Hardys striking looks crude in places, but god damn, his style works.

I dont care what anybody says. I'm looking forward to the fight. If its as one sided as suggested, I'll still enjoy watching Hardy fight. I never tire of watching GSP. Win. Win. Win. Win... ( to fade )

Thats the last I'm saying on the topic. We can talk/laugh/cry again after the fight my brothers. Peace.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Honestly I think the myth that GSP can only strike because people are scared of his TD's is BS. If this is all true I have yet to hear anyone explain why GSP was considered the future of the sport back when he was considered predominantly a striker and before he ever became a wrestling machine.


I think this mindset will change after the Hardy fight! Second Round TKO :thumbsup: I don't even see this fight going to the ground at all, because GSP will feel to damn comfortable standing with Hardy. 

PPl will rank GSP's sriking a lot higher after this fight, cause they believe Hardy is a top notch striker.. wich he clearly isn't.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> I think this mindset will change after the Hardy fight! Second Round TKO :thumbsup: I don't even see this fight going to the ground at all, because GSP will feel to damn comfortable standing with Hardy.
> 
> PPl will rank GSP's sriking a lot higher after this fight, cause they believe Hardy is a top notch striker.. wich he clearly isn't.


pierre's striking may be better, but if he stands with hardy, the only person going to sleep, will be gsp, you can take that to the bank.

lol at gsp TKO'ing hardy.. :confused05: never gonna happen.

gsp tko'ing hardy is more unlikely than hardy wining this fight.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

JoshKnows46 said:


> pierre's striking may be better, but if he stands with hardy, the only person going to sleep, will be gsp, you can take that to the bank.
> 
> lol at gsp TKO'ing hardy.. :confused05: never gonna happen.
> 
> gsp tko'ing hardy is more unlikely than hardy wining this fight.


mark my words 

he will totally outstrike Hardy and beat him on the feet in impressive fashion! If Hardy makes it into the third round, then he gets a lot of credit from me.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> mark my words
> 
> he will totally outstrike Hardy and beat him on the feet in impressive fashion! If Hardy makes it into the third round, then he gets a lot of credit from me.


gsp wont just stand with hardy, he has already made that clear with his "i am a MM artist" comment...he'll mix in alot of wrestling...he's not dum anuff to stand with hardy....thats hardy's bread and butter, hardy has never been rocked, in what 29 fights, gsp defintly wont be the first one to do it, and i can guarentee you this fight takes place 80% on the ground, inless hardy can stop more takedowns than i expect....gsp is not gonna willingly stand up with hardy more than 20% of the fight, he's a smart fighter, and he picks at a opponettes weakness....he took bj and alves down...he stood up with fitch.

if he can't knock out a punching bag like fitch, who had no offense to answer back, how is he gonna knock out hardy?..I think your really underestimating hardy's ability's.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

I'm calling first round KO GSP... if not KO, TKO. Hardy will be overwhelmed in every area.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

JoshKnows46 said:


> pierre's striking may be better, but if he stands with hardy, the only person going to sleep, will be gsp, you can take that to the bank.
> 
> lol at gsp TKO'ing hardy.. :confused05: never gonna happen.
> 
> gsp tko'ing hardy is more unlikely than hardy wining this fight.


The law just entered.....


What possible reason would you have for making this statement???? And give me a good reason, GSP has longer reach, better more disciplined form of karate over Kung Fu and some of the best speed and explosion in the sport or in the sport period.....


Give me a fact to back your post up.....


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

coldcall420 said:


> Im not sure what your even trying to convey here???:confused02: What I was trying to say was that regardless if you have a guy that is legit pissed off fighting another guy that is looking at his opponent as just another opponent, there is an advantage to the guy thats genuine pissed....
> 
> I didnt state who this was or is, however FTR I have GSp winning this fight, pretty much where ever he wants....


I'm saying being pissed off/wanting to hurt the other guy isn't an advantage, if anything the more composed fighter has an advantage because he doesn't go out trying to take the other guys head off.

If any advantage did exist, it would be so small it would only matter if the two fighters had equal skill sets. But it doesn't. it's basically not an advantage and possiby even a disadvantage to be 'pissed off' as you put it.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Hiro said:


> I'm saying being pissed off/wanting to hurt the other guy isn't an advantage, if anything the more composed fighter has an advantage because he doesn't go out trying to take the other guys head off.
> 
> If any advantage did exist, it would be so small it would only matter if the two fighters had equal skill sets. But it doesn't. it's basically not an advantage and possiby even a disadvantage to be 'pissed off' as you put it.


Typically in any fight yes, having a clear mental state will def give you the advantage, I'm just saying there are certain times in life when you have enraged an individual so much so that someone 20 Pd's heavier wouldn't want to mess with them at that moment, hell at another time they would own said person. Occasionally there are times when you just pushed the wrong button and really dont have a prayer....


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