# Jones suspended indef. and stripped of title. Cormier in 187



## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

Announced on Fox Sports Live and via twitter!















































AJ v DC for the actual title.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I'm certain that seeing his idol test for PEDs triggered this. Partially sardonic. I'm not even laughing anymore. First time yes, not this one. I find it ironic. Dude has EVERYTHING he could ever want. He's achieved the pinnacle. Yet he's bringing about his own demise. This is where he would need his fans the most to serve as a support group. Maybe he needs to get this out of his system now before he matures in his 30s. He does have plenty of time. Let's face it. In the grand scheme of things it could have been worse and it's nowhere near some of the other situations star athletes have gotten themselves into. So with that I hope he find himself. He's virtually vanquished everyone, now he has some inner demons to battle now.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Oh. My. God.

So when he comes back is he going to get an immediate title shot?


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

****KK i wanted jones vs AJ, this sucks he shouldnt lose the title like this, let AJ actually beat him adn see if hes worthy


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

So i guess we will have a fake champion pretending they deserve that belt for a while, ok... sure.


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## boatoar (May 14, 2010)

Just caught a mention of this on twitter and had to jump on here to get more details. Wow, I was unsure what would happen. I thought the fight would be scrapped indefinitely and Jones would be sidelined, but not have him stripped and a title fight with DC be thrown on. Wonder what AJ thinks of all this? 

Curious how this all plays out over the next 12 mo or so.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

I cannot believe this. I really can't. I never thought the UFC would do some thing so...moral. I didn't even think they would cancel the fight after the judge let Jones out on bail with no travel restrictions. I am honestly flabbergasted. 

Maybe the UFC brass just thought it would be too much negative PR not to swing the hammer after the DUI and the coke thing.

Holy mother of crap.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

boatoar said:


> Just caught a mention of this on twitter and had to jump on here to get more details. Wow, I was unsure what would happen. I thought the fight would be scrapped indefinitely and Jones would be sidelined, but not have him stripped and a title fight with DC be thrown on. Wonder what AJ thinks of all this?
> 
> Curious how this all plays out over the next 12 mo or so.


DC beats Rumble. 
Jones gets community service comes back dominates DC again then fights Rumble and wins.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Personally I think Johnson is the better fighter of the two. He's a completely different monster and I have a feeling he'll come out strong against Cormier. We'll have to see.


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## bunnitz (Nov 19, 2006)

Life B Ez said:


> Oh. My. God.
> 
> So when he comes back is he going to get an immediate title shot?


He might be in jail for a while! i hope he gets the max sentence, 3 years.

then once out, probation and suspended license for 5 years. what a complete moron.

DC will take AJ down and lay on him for a decision- it will not be an exciting fight.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

No surprise, UFC is cracking down on breaches of policy, they let him off light for the failed test and now he does this...

Dana is fed up with drug test failures and fed up with fighters doing shit that brings negative press and puts big fights in jeopardy. It gets pretty boring from a fan perspective too.


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## Warning (Nov 18, 2009)

JJ all cracked up. Driving all crazy. Gets in accident. Runs away. Comes back to get his money. Goes to buy more crack. Not boring at all. Jon The Rock (Crack) Jones.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

I called it years ago, you can't act with absolute disregard all the time and get away with it. He let his ego get bigger and bigger to the point he thought he's above the law and that he is such an icon his status as champ is unquestionable. This was a ticking time bomb waiting to happen.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

While the UFC is awesome for wanting to give us a fight like that on this card, I think it's bullshit that Daniel Cormier's in this. I kept saying I felt he was overrated before the Jones fight, then he got fairly handled by Jones and didn't look to be in control throughout. Now DC has what I'd describe is a fight he's the favourite in, and why has he earned that exactly? No doubt all of you disagree, even though for the past few months DC has always sucked in your minds (you know, cause Jones beat him) but no doubt he'll go back to being the best.

I thought the perfect scenario would be to strip Jones of the title and make the next fight for the belt in the late summer between Jones and AJ.



bunnitz said:


> He might be in jail for a while! i hope he gets the max sentence, 3 years.
> 
> then once out, probation and suspended license for 5 years. what a complete moron.
> 
> DC will take AJ down and lay on him for a decision- it will not be an exciting fight.


Did he kill a bald eagle while he was at it or something? I don't even think you get 3 years if you hit an actual person and run.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

DC will get the title. Whip dee fu**in do. Then he'll take 7 years off for knee injuries and the LHW division will be a farce just like the HW with his pal chronic Pain Velasquz. 
I really don't want see Cormier being the champ after he got owned so badly by JJ and shown up.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

I just don't know where to begin with this guy.

Is it really that much of a struggle to be highly paid and a decent human being? I've seen people who are outraged that he has been stripped of the title! He hit and injured a pregnant lady while under the influence and ran away, there is no defense for that.
And he's 27 now, not 21 - this behaviour cannot be put down to age or naivety, it's time to accept the guy is just a POS.


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## MK. (Dec 16, 2012)

UFC_OWNS said:


> ****KK i wanted jones vs AJ, this sucks he shouldnt lose the title like this, let AJ actually beat him adn see if hes worthy


Yes he should, he is a piece of shit human being and should learn that action have consequences.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Hallelujah.

I never thought I'd see the day but the UFC have actually took the moral high ground against someone who's not a can.

Hopefully a couple of years off will teach Bones some humanity.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> While the UFC is awesome for wanting to give us a fight like that on this card, I think it's bullshit that Daniel Cormier's in this. I kept saying I felt he was overrated before the Jones fight, then he got fairly handled by Jones and didn't look to be in control throughout. Now DC has what I'd describe is a fight he's the favourite in, and why has he earned that exactly? No doubt all of you disagree, even though for the past few months DC has always sucked in your minds (you know, cause Jones beat him) but no doubt he'll go back to being the best.
> 
> I thought the perfect scenario would be to strip Jones of the title and make the next fight for the belt in the late summer between Jones and AJ.
> 
> ...


DC is in my opinion the best LHW outside of Jones. The fact that he beat DC is just a testament to how good Jones is, not how bad DC is. DC beats Gus/Johnson/anyone else in the division, and honestly he gave Jones a competitive fight up until about the 3rd round when he gassed. Skill wise, DC can be competitive/win against anybody, maybe even Jones if they had a rematch. 

Anywho, I'm glad all this got settled properly and I'm glad that someone like DC was available to fight, it would have been a shame had there not been a solid contender able to compete against Johnson.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> While the UFC is awesome for wanting to give us a fight like that on this card, I think it's bullshit that Daniel Cormier's in this. I kept saying I felt he was overrated before the Jones fight, then he got fairly handled by Jones and didn't look to be in control throughout. Now DC has what I'd describe is a fight he's the favourite in, and why has he earned that exactly? No doubt all of you disagree, even though for the past few months DC has always sucked in your minds (you know, cause Jones beat him) but no doubt he'll go back to being the best.
> 
> I thought the perfect scenario would be to strip Jones of the title and make the next fight for the belt in the late summer between Jones and AJ.
> 
> ...


So you are telling me, your serious suggestion is strip Jones of the belt, give the belt to *NOBODY*, then 6 months down the line rebook the *EXACT* fight that has been cancelled... *FOR THE BELT*.

Sometimes I honestly have to wonder if you are trolling. :confused02: :confused03:


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

I would actually rather they gave Gus a rematch with Johnson over giving DC this shot.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Personally, I think DC vs Rumble is the only logical fight they could make.

Gus just got starched in under a round by rumble.


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## Anteries (Oct 22, 2010)

As fans of course were all disappointed, but Jones did it to himself. For goodness sake surely he could have employed a chauffeur and chill in the back with his babes.


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## Anteries (Oct 22, 2010)

SM33 said:


> No surprise, UFC is cracking down on breaches of policy, they let him off light for the failed test and now he does this...
> 
> Dana is fed up with drug test failures and fed up with fighters doing shit that brings negative press and puts big fights in jeopardy. It gets pretty boring from a fan perspective too.


I agree and I also think Jones' eye poking and knee kicking fighting style, that could disable other fighters may have played a role.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Anteries said:


> I agree and I also think Jones' eye poking and knee kicking fighting style, that could disable other fighters may have played a role.


No it wouldn't. Jones has been suspended for the hit-and-run and further links with social drug taking, not for anything to do with his fighting style. If they were going to suspend him for that, they'd have done it after the Hamill fight.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

What a lovely thread to be greeted with during my morning coffee.:laugh:


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Killz said:


> So you are telling me, your serious suggestion is strip Jones of the belt, give the belt to *NOBODY*, then 6 months down the line rebook the *EXACT* fight that has been cancelled... *FOR THE BELT*.
> 
> Sometimes I honestly have to wonder if you are trolling. :confused02: :confused03:


:laugh: Awesome


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

This is the best MMA based news I've heard in long time. If the UFC were to announce that Bisping was going to get a title shot, even that wouldn't trump Jones getting his comeuppance for me.

Finally, that eye poking, drug taking, arrogant, self-serving piece of shit has had his wings clipped.

I hope he gets some jail time too.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Killz said:


> Personally, I think DC vs Rumble is the only logical fight they could make.
> 
> Gus just got starched in under a round by rumble.


But if this fight goes how i expect it to, we will have a guy who was convincingly beat by Jones hold the belt, With Gus or AJ we can at least hope the best guy in the division is the champ.


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## TheReturn (Sep 26, 2010)

Joabbuac said:


> Killz said:
> 
> 
> > Personally, I think DC vs Rumble is the only logical fight they could make.
> ...


That's kind of ridiculous. The fight is not close not at all, Aj is 5 years younger, has reach and height advantage. And in my opinion has better striking and speed, which can't be negated as easily as wrestling. In any case Gus doesn't need to be throw back into the mix like that with the same guy he just got demolished by, he was close to quitting and I rarely say this about highly ranked contenders but he needs a confidence booster. Oh and if DC wins he will be the current best in the division like it or not.


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## prospect (Mar 26, 2014)

Was he even proven guilty?


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Spite said:


> This is the best MMA based news I've heard in long time. If the UFC were to announce that Bisping was going to get a title shot, even that wouldn't trump Jones getting his comeuppance for me.
> 
> Finally, that eye poking, drug taking, arrogant, self-serving piece of shit has had his wings clipped.
> 
> I hope he gets some jail time too.


Lol Spite soooooo much hate for Jones! The first three things you mentioned about him could be applied in one way or another to most of the fighters in MMA! Even Dolloway was telling Bisping to close his fist in the last round the other day. 
This whole incident doesn't make me happy at all that he will get put away or whatever. Its terrible news for MMA. Now we won't be seeing the greatest fighter in the world fight, thats not good for anyone. His performance against Cormier was a joy to behold, outwrestling an olympic wrestler and saving us all from butterbean stinking up the division like his mate in HW. Do we really want DC as champ with his 1 trick pony style, or do we want a guy who pushes the boundaries of the sport every time he gets in the ring? 

As far as Im concerned the dude is a flawed genius. He hardly trains, and walks into the ring and destroys the most dedicated and talented guys in the world. I wana see that until his body can't do it anymore, not because he makes some stupid mistakes. 

He deservers to be punished, but its a tragedy we won't get to see him perform now for however long it will be.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

Spite said:


> I hope he gets some jail time too.


He should get jail time given his past record but he won't. Even though this is a relatively serious charge Jones can still make the "I was young, scared, and stupid" defense, will have the best lawyers money can buy, and the additional legal currency of being famous.

It is a felony now, it won't be by the time sentencing comes around. 

This is going to play out with a big fine, suspended sentence, community service, a "long" suspension by the UFC (a year is my guess) after which Jones will come back, destroy someone in a tune up fight (the UFC will make very sure he gets someone that he'll maul easily, not Gus that's for sure even if he were in a position where it made sense) and then fight for the title and win. 18 months from now Jones will have the belt back.

Note, this is not what I want to happen, he deserves more punishment than that but that is what will happen.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Jones broke one of Anderson's record and now he proudly detain the record of *the most shameful way of losing a UFC title*. GOAT.


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## King Daisuke (Mar 25, 2013)

This has nothing to do with a UFC championship. This is all about an arrogant young prick who thought he could get away with anything just because he's really good at cagefighting. I'm glad he finally got what he deserved. He's 27 years old, he's not young enough anymore for "aww chucks, I guess I really messed up this time." This is not the first time - hell, it's not even the second or third time - that he crashes a car, under the influence of who knows what drugs. I hope he goes to jail.


I can't believe some of you, would you rather have Jones kill a pregnant woman the next time? This is not a small fender bender.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> Lol Spite soooooo much hate for Jones! The first three things you mentioned about him could be applied in one way or another to most of the fighters in MMA! Even Dolloway was telling Bisping to close his fist in the last round the other day.
> This whole incident doesn't make me happy at all that he will get put away or whatever. Its terrible news for MMA. Now we won't be seeing the greatest fighter in the world fight, thats not good for anyone. His performance against Cormier was a joy to behold, outwrestling an olympic wrestler and saving us all from butterbean stinking up the division like his mate in HW. Do we really want DC as champ with his 1 trick pony style, or do we want a guy who pushes the boundaries of the sport every time he gets in the ring?
> 
> As far as Im concerned the dude is a flawed genius. He hardly trains, and walks into the ring and destroys the most dedicated and talented guys in the world. I wana see that until his body can't do it anymore, not because he makes some stupid mistakes.
> ...


I rarely disagree with your posts Don but you and I are Mike's apart in Jones.

Jones is the best LHW mixed martial artist of all time, he'll he's probably the best fighter at any weight in any combat sport ever but that does not put him above the law.

I really don't consider a DUI hit and run a stupid mistake - It's already a problem that famous sportsmen get more lenient treatment from the law, I certainly won't encourage it!

It's disappointing for everyone to miss out on some of the prime of Bones' career cos of this, but are we really suggesting letting this POS get away with it just because it'll be more entertaining to us?!


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

This just in - Dana has announced the next season of TUF - The Ultimate Fighter: Penitentiary. Team captains will be Jon Jones and Lee Murray. Cant wait!


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

edlavis88 said:


> I rarely disagree with your posts Don but you and I are Mike's apart in Jones.
> 
> Jones is the best LHW mixed martial artist of all time, he'll he's probably the best fighter at any weight in any combat sport ever but that does not put him above the law.
> 
> ...


Well I was more disagreeing with Spites evident delight in him getting punished and not being allowed to fight - be that jail or whatever happens. I just think its bad news for all. Don't get me wrong I think he deserves to be punished, he can be a real funkin moron most of the time. But I don't see the need to rejoice in it! Its like putting Beethoven away and not letting him write music for a certain amount of time. The public gets deprived of a rare humans talents.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

It looks like also Reebok terminated Jones contract and the UFC removed Jones from the p4p rankings on there site.


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## halifaxdonair (Aug 27, 2011)

First of all, I hope the baby is alright.

Jones is getting what he deserves, though of course I would have loved to see the fight. as ridiculous as it sounds, the title shot should have went to Ryan Bader because of his win streak.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

halifaxdonair said:


> First of all, I hope the baby is alright.
> 
> .


If the baby wasn't alright, he could get done for Manslaughter! Then people will want to crucify him.


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## prospect (Mar 26, 2014)

DonRifle said:


> If the baby wasn't alright, he could get done for Manslaughter! Then people will want to crucify him.


Tbf we already wanned to crucify him


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> Well I was more disagreeing with Spites evident delight in him getting punished and not being allowed to fight - be that jail or whatever happens. I just think its bad news for all.


I've often said I think UFC's PPV are a rip off @ $65 or whatever it is. But I pay that and more to see the look on his face if he were to get sent down.

You know why this has happened, Don? Because every time he has put a foot out of line he has not been properly punished for it and therefore he has never had to reassess his life. So, it's not just Jones fault, the UFC and Jacksons could have done something and must have seen something like this happening down the road. If Jones was my friend we would have had words by now.

Now Jones has lost his title and may even lose his freedom. The shit storm is just beginning and the people closest to him need to break him down and build him back up.

Maybe in the future we'll see a better Jones, not just a better fighter but a better human. And if takes a year or 2 of not seeing Jones fight, I can live with that.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Joabbuac said:


> I would actually rather they gave Gus a rematch with Johnson over giving DC this shot.


hahahahaha

it is so hilarious how delusional people are willing to be when discussing a fighter they don't like.

So a fight that just happened where the Swed got his ass handed to him in 1 round in his home country is a better fight than a fight that has never happened which features DC a guy who is undefeated besides a loss to Bones where he didn't look as bad as most who tried.

ookkk then...


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Spite said:


> You know why this has happened, Don? Because every time he has put a foot out of line he has not been properly punished for it and therefore he has never had to reassess his life. So, it's not just Jones fault, the UFC and Jacksons could have done something and must have seen something like this happening down the road. If Jones was my friend we would have had words by now.
> 
> Now Jones has lost his title and may even lose his freedom. The shit storm is just beginning and the people closest to him need to break him down and build him back up.
> 
> .




Agreed. What amazes me is his brothers didn't get a hold of him since they must be used to having a code of conduct for their careers in the NFL. His coaches his managers, he has a wife too doesn't he? 
The word is that he's been advised many times to get a bodyguard, and a driver so that this kind of stuff can't happen. But he won't listen. 

He should have realised he was not untouchable after the coke thing. I can imagine a guy like him would have a certain kind of God complex in that he would feel at times he's indestructable just by being so much better then everyone else and basically being the baddest man on the planet. If he got some jail time he would soon wake up from that complex. 

But, accidents do happen, its not like he's evil and a serious criminal. He's not beating up women purposely, or fiddling kids. 
I think overall he deserves a six month suspension from fighting + a big hit to his pocket in the form of a couple of mil to the victim, and lose his drivers license. 

On a side note though, what would be MMA's loss could be a big boost for reality TV. Prime Time "In Hell" every friday night!


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

As probably the biggest Bones fan on here, I'm torn.

On one hand, he needs to turn his life around. Classic case of an (obviously not too bright) athlete getting too much fame and fortune that he can handle. Someone with kids should not be drunk driving, having weed, cocaine, etc. He's a mess and he could end up hurting someone else. And being stripped of the belt is clearly a message that could help him get his crap together.

From a UFC perspective, it's a huge joke. There have been way worse things done by champions, and they kept their belts. Why not suspend Bones, have AJ vs Cormier for the interim belt, and then Bones fights in 6-12 months? And if he's unable to fight then, then you strip him and make the interim champion the permanent champion. I know it's injury-related and totally different, but Velasquez hasn't fought in a year-and-a-half. 

We've now seen two of the three greatest title reigns of this era end in unanswered questions, and paper champions. This seems like such a PR, rash decision where UFC wants to keep interest in their show as they know they'll get slaughtered as-is being around the Mayweather fight.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

The Best Around said:


> From a UFC perspective, it's a huge joke. There have been way worse things done by champions, and they kept their belts.


For example?


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

The Best Around said:


> From a UFC perspective, it's a huge joke. There have been way worse things done by champions, and they kept their belts. Why not suspend Bones, have AJ vs Cormier for the interim belt, and then Bones fights in 6-12 months? And if he's unable to fight then, then you strip him and make the interim champion the permanent champion. I know it's injury-related and totally different, but Velasquez hasn't fought in a year-and-a-half.
> 
> We've now seen two of the three greatest title reigns of this era end in unanswered questions, and paper champions. This seems like such a PR, rash decision where UFC wants to keep interest in their show as they know they'll get slaughtered as-is being around the Mayweather fight.


Please explain what champs the UFC let slide who did worse than Jon?

Jon got in a crash and got a DUI a couple years ago. He got into a presser brawl. He popped for coke out of competition. He ran into a pregnant lady, in likelihood impaired with coke or alcohol. 

It isn't like the decision came down after 1 instance.

At some point yea it is about PR. You must have no clue what sponsors and image means to the UFC.

For a guy like you who says drunk driving is scumbag shit....it is odd that you seem to think Jones should slide when he is a multiple time offender of it and could of killed a woman an unborn baby because of it....weird stuff...


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## prospect (Mar 26, 2014)

The Best Around said:


> From a UFC perspective, it's a huge joke. There have been way worse things done by champions, and they kept their belts. Why not suspend Bones, have AJ vs Cormier for the interim belt, and then Bones fights in 6-12 months? And if he's unable to fight then, then you strip him and make the interim champion the permanent champion. I know it's injury-related and totally different, but Velasquez hasn't fought in a year-and-a-half.
> 
> We've now seen two of the three greatest title reigns of this era end in unanswered questions, and paper champions. This seems like such a PR, rash decision where UFC wants to keep interest in their show as they know they'll get slaughtered as-is being around the Mayweather fight.


I have to agree, the ufc acted too fast and if there wasn't a huge fight in a month they would've waited until at least jones was proven guilty.

And if there were questions about Andersons era then Weidman should be called the answer... Just sayin :hug:


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

So, Jones is getting too much hard time for what he did?

Wanderlei ran from a drug test: Got banned for eternity, many applauded the outcome.

Now, Jon Jones *just ran from a drug/alcohol test himself *, right? But hey, just before running from this test, he went through a red light and hit the car of a pregnant woman, hurting her, but never coming back to check on her, but to get cash from his vehicle loaded with drug use evidence.

So, Wand ran away indicates he was using all sort of illegal substances he couldn't afford to be caught with, right? What about Jones?


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

prospect said:


> I have to agree, the ufc acted too fast and if there wasn't a huge fight in a month they would've waited until at least jones was proven guilty.
> 
> And if there were questions about Andersons era then Weidman should be called the answer... Just sayin :hug:


I think the UFC got it spot on for once. Jones is guilty, presumably the UFC have spoken to Jones and he has said that he is guilty. Going to trial is just a formality so Jones can beg for mercy and see what kind of sentence he gets.

You know what the great thing about 187 is? We get to see a new Champion crowned.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Spite said:


> You know what the great thing about 187 is? We get to see a new Champion crowned.


And it won't be no fake champion. It will be a legit champion. *Jon Jones is no longer Champion. It's over.* The title is vacant. Like someone pro twitted, "just winning fights is not enough to make you a champion". Hell, even Anderson Silva was seriously and publicly threatened by Dana of being stripped from his belt and fired from UFC *because*... he fought a lame fight against Demian Maia, a fight that he won. That was all.


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Please explain what champs the UFC let slide who did worse than Jon?
> 
> Jon got in a crash and got a DUI a couple years ago. He got into a presser brawl. He popped for coke out of competition. He ran into a pregnant lady, in likelihood impaired with coke or alcohol.
> 
> ...


The answer would be: Jon Jones. It's a complete double standard. Getting into a drunk-driving accident is way worse than this was. But at the time he was fresh off of a defense against Rashad and didn't have an immediate fight, so he was let off the hook. Plus, UFC was coming into a transition period of sorts at the time.

Then you have this which is not as bad, and he's stripped. People will perceive it as the "straw that broke the camel's back", whereas I perceive as a "shit, boxing has the biggest fight of all-time coming up, and we had a big card that will have this cloud over it, so let's make it a permanent title fight to save face". If this title fight was scheduled for September, he would not have been stripped. That's where my problem with this lies.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

The Best Around said:


> The answer would be: Jon Jones. It's a complete double standard. Getting into a drunk-driving accident is way worse than this was. But at the time he was fresh off of a defense against Rashad and didn't have an immediate fight, so he was let off the hook. Plus, UFC was coming into a transition period of sorts at the time.
> 
> Then you have this which is not as bad, and he's stripped. People will perceive it as the "straw that broke the camel's back", whereas I perceive as a "shit, boxing has the biggest fight of all-time coming up, and we had a big card that will have this cloud over it, so let's make it a permanent title fight to save face". If this title fight was scheduled for September, he would not have been stripped. That's where my problem with this lies.


I reckon they would have stripped it regardless. If he had hung around at the scene of the accident they might have stood by him, but the running away and the weed Im not sure they are left with a choice.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

The Best Around said:


> The answer would be: Jon Jones. It's a complete double standard. Getting into a drunk-driving accident is way worse than this was.


Surely this incident is worse because he actually injured a person and fled the scene, presumably because he was either high or drunk... I think Pheelgood said that it is the number 2 reason people flee the scene. Given his history I would bet my house he was either high or drunk - maybe both.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I think Dana made an emotional reaction and jumped the gun. Charges are not convictions. it shouldn't have affected this fight if the judge had already cleared him to travel. 
Due process.

Dana's actions impact more people than he realizes.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

I don't know how much the stripped title will effect things in the long run. Hendrick's got a belt without beating GSP (officially), and Barao got a belt without beating Cruise. People forget about these kind of things pretty fast. Especially the casual masses.


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

Spite said:


> Surely this incident is worse because he actually injured a person and fled the scene, presumably because he was either high or drunk... I think Pheelgood said that it is the number 2 reason people flee the scene. Given his history I would bet my house he was either high or drunk - maybe both.


The end result of the incident is worse since he did injure someone else. But driving drunk is essentially the intention of doing wrong, whereas accidents (unfortunately) happen. I'm sure he fled since he had the weed in the car, and that was his first instinct. There are often not reasons for why a hit-and-run occurs other than the fact that a person's first instinct is to run away. 

And DonRifle, there's no way they would have stripped him if he was scheduled to fight in September. But because the show is so close, literally every day is precious. So they figured that there's no way Bones can fight, so they still wanted a LHW title fight so they could have their two total fights on the card to try and capitalize off of fight fans who were still in fight-mode after the Mayweather fight. If the fight had been scheduled for September, it would have been more of a wait-and-see plan of attack.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

The Best Around said:


> The answer would be: Jon Jones. It's a complete double standard. Getting into a drunk-driving accident is way worse than this was. But at the time he was fresh off of a defense against Rashad and didn't have an immediate fight, so he was let off the hook. Plus, UFC was coming into a transition period of sorts at the time.
> 
> Then you have this which is not as bad, and he's stripped. People will perceive it as the "straw that broke the camel's back", whereas I perceive as a "shit, boxing has the biggest fight of all-time coming up, and we had a big card that will have this cloud over it, so let's make it a permanent title fight to save face". If this title fight was scheduled for September, he would not have been stripped. That's where my problem with this lies.


Where are your examples of "way" worse behaviour by previous champs?


----------



## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Reported on the BBC. Bastards don't like reporting on fights but are there like fly a on shit when theres some bad news to report.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/32516505


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## oordeel (Apr 14, 2007)

The Best Around said:


> The end result of the incident is worse since he did injure someone else. But driving drunk is essentially the intention of doing wrong, whereas accidents (unfortunately) happen. I'm sure he fled since he had the weed in the car, and that was his first instinct. There are often not reasons for why a hit-and-run occurs other than the fact that a person's first instinct is to run away...


This makes absolutely no sense to me. You just got into an accident and you think it's normal for a person's first reaction to run away??? I don't know, but where I come from the first thing you do is check to make sure everyone is ok, and if not, do what you can until more help arrives. It's morally the right thing to do. Of all the people I know, not a single one has ever fled the scene of an accident, even when they knew they were going to be in trouble with the law (carrying weed with them, drinking, going to fast, etc).

Also, how can you know or "be sure" of what his state of mind was? You don't, you're just guessing and doing wishful thinking. His actions speak for themselves. And what about him returning to the scene of the accident, not to check on other people, but to remove something from his car and then run away again. How's that a first reaction?


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

oordeel said:


> It's morally the right thing to do. Of all the *people* I know, not a single one has ever fled the scene of an accident, even when they knew they were going to be in trouble with the law (carrying weed with them, drinking, going to fast, etc).


Yes, but we should know by now Jon Jones is "not quite *people*" or, as himself tried to warn us, "not quite..."


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

oordeel said:


> This makes absolutely no sense to me. You just got into an accident and you think it's normal for a person's first reaction to run away??? I don't know, but where I come from the first thing you do is check to make sure everyone is ok, and if not, do what you can until more help arrives. It's morally the right thing to do. Of all the people I know, not a single one has ever fled the scene of an accident, even when they knew they were going to be in trouble with the law (carrying weed with them, drinking, going to fast, etc).
> 
> Also, how can you know or "be sure" of what his state of mind was? You don't, you're just guessing and doing wishful thinking. His actions speak for themselves. And what about him returning to the scene of the accident, not to check on other people, but to remove something from his car and then run away again. How's that a first reaction?


 Apparently one of the witnesses was talking to him, asking him was he ok, did he need an ambulance, and after that he ran off. Then came back, grabbed a load of cash and ran again :laugh:
In all seriousness though I think if it was a case of him hitting that lady, seeing she was badly hurt, and running off with no one there to help her, that would be some serious shit. As I understand it there was people around helping the lady, calling ambulances etc. Thats just according to Chaels podcast though, we all know Chael is the most honest guy in town!


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

Soojooko said:


> Where are your examples of "way" worse behaviour by previous champs?


My example was Bones himself. The drunk-driving to me was worse behavior. Anyone caught doing drunk-driving should have their license suspended for at least a year and be jailed. 

And oordeel, I never said it was OK to run away- I would never support that. But I'm saying that I can see why a lot of people do it, because you have so little time to think and so many thoughts are going through your head, that it's hard to know what the "right thing" to do is. I would never have weed or be drunk, so I can't speak from experience. 

I'm not sure if coming back to the car to get something and leaving was actual truth or not. There were also reports of cocaine around that, and we saw how that turned out. We don't know his state of mind (high, drunk, etc) so it'd be unfair to guess one way or another. But the fact is that he drove drunk in 2012, it was proven so, and that is more intention to hurt than this was, even if this resulted in someone getting hurt. If he's not stripped of the belt in 2012, stripping him now is hypocritical and a clear spur-of-the-moment move.


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## Ryankmfdm (Sep 24, 2010)

The Best Around said:


> As probably the biggest *former* Bones fan on here, I'm torn.


Fixed it for ya. 

(You can't still like the guy, can you!?)


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## King Daisuke (Mar 25, 2013)

The Best Around said:


> From a UFC perspective, it's a huge joke. *There have been way worse things done by champions, and they kept their belts.*


Like what? And who? I challenge you to name 3.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

King Daisuke said:


> Like what? And who? I challenge you to name 3.


I'm wondering as well.


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

Ryankmfdm said:


> Fixed it for ya.
> 
> (You can't still like the guy, can you!?)


Still a fan. But I've always said he's still a slight POS for the drunk-driving incident. And having cocaine/weed is just him being a dumbass, but not something I would hate on him for.

And for the two posts above me, I've already said twice that I was referring to Bones himself, when he was drunk-driving and not stripped of the title.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

The only other thing that went bad for a champ apart from roids is Rampages Rampage.


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## Aiken (May 3, 2010)

I always forgave Jones his indiscretions, because he always backed up who he was, in the cage - and all I'm really interested in, is watching the human cock-fight...

I don't care what recreational drugs he does in his spare time, as long as he's discreet...

But I have to draw the line here - because there's no excuse - 

1. The man has more money than god, if he's going out partying he needs to arrange for someone else to drive (either friend or better yet, paid professional) 

2. As has already been stated, you shouldn't run from your own action unless you are in imminent danger... being caught with weed, over the limit, or with anything other than a dead body in the trunk is ALWAYS better than running like a bitch.

I have been swinging from Jones' nut sack for five years... but now its time to let go....

But my main beef is now I don't get to see Rumble challenge Jones next month... which is unforgivable in my opinion.

However, until Jones returns, nobody (not AG, DC, ARJ or anyone else) can make a legitimate claim on that title, regardless of what the UFC tells us to think.

Jones = fallen but not beaten champion 
and winner of DC vs AJ - cardboard champion until they beat Jones


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## prospect (Mar 26, 2014)

Whose #1 P4P?


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

King Daisuke said:


> Like what? And who? I challenge you to name 3.


Ive already tried to coax an explanation, and got:



> My example was Bones himself. The drunk-driving to me was worse behavior. Anyone caught doing drunk-driving should have their license suspended for at least a year and be jailed.


Needless to say anything more really...


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)




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## Aiken (May 3, 2010)

prospect said:


> Whose #1 P4P?


Jones of course!

Unless he suddenly decided to retire, he remains the toughest SOB out there

Just because he was a dumbass idiot, and the UFC have thrown him (temporarily I'm sure) to the sidelines, doesn't mean he forgot to fight....

Its like asking "what was the world's biggest island before Australia was discovered?" 

It was still Australia - just because we hadn't discovered it yet, doesn't mean it wasn't there...


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## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

The Best Around said:


> My example was Bones himself. The drunk-driving to me was worse behavior. Anyone caught doing drunk-driving should have their license suspended for at least a year and be jailed.
> 
> And oordeel, I never said it was OK to run away- I would never support that. But I'm saying that I can see why a lot of people do it, because you have so little time to think and so many thoughts are going through your head, that it's hard to know what the "right thing" to do is. I would never have weed or be drunk, so I can't speak from experience.
> 
> I'm not sure if coming back to the car to get something and leaving was actual truth or not. There were also reports of cocaine around that, and we saw how that turned out. *We don't know his state of mind (high, drunk, etc) so it'd be unfair to guess one way or another. But the fact is that he drove drunk in 2012, it was proven so, and that is more intention to hurt than this was, even if this resulted in someone getting hurt. If he's not stripped of the belt in 2012, stripping him now is hypocritical and a clear spur-of-the-moment move.*


It's like saying that Wandy or Overeem was more ethical by running from the tests and so actually didn't got caught juicing. It's too naive. If you want to let him have the benefit of the doubt at least don't treat running as better than getting caught but instead as an unknown. Clearly the only circumstance in which he would gain something from running was if he was under influence. Considering his history and what was in the car it's just too naive to let him gain by it. It's too late for him to get away with "I was confused."

Also, how can it be hypocritical when it's about the same person? In 2012 he did A, now he has done A + B (+C +D etc.) If different people did these things and got different treatment it may be considered hypocritical but that's not the case here.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Spite said:


> Hallelujah.
> 
> I never thought I'd see the day but the UFC have actually took the moral high ground against someone who's not a can.
> 
> Hopefully a couple of years off will teach Bones some humanity.





Spite said:


> I've often said I think UFC's PPV are a rip off @ $65 or whatever it is. But I pay that and more to see the look on his face if he were to get sent down.
> 
> You know why this has happened, Don? Because every time he has put a foot out of line he has not been properly punished for it and therefore he has never had to reassess his life. So, it's not just Jones fault, the UFC and Jacksons could have done something and must have seen something like this happening down the road. If Jones was my friend we would have had words by now.
> 
> ...


Amen on all of that.

1. Finally, the UFC gets it right. I'm simultaneously happy and shocked at that. Will they stay on this path now?

2. I'm not surprised in the slightest that this f***wit has run afoul of the law again. Was only a matter of time. Good riddance.


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

He may have ran away because he knew there was weed in the car, and that was his first instinct. Who knows. Does he deserve the benefit of the doubt? Probably not, at this point. But we can't know for sure.

It can definitely be hypocritical. With the other crap Bones has done, he was never suspended, really dealt with, etc. And now when he did another thing, he's all of a sudden stripped of the belt a handful of days later? That'd be like in baseball if you got caught for steroids, and your punishment was 0 games on the first offense, 0 games on the second offense, and an entire season on the third offense. 

As I've said, if the fight happens in September, there is zero chance Bones gets stripped of the belt at this point. But because they have a big PPV coming up and it's near the Mayweather fight, they want all hands on deck.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Phil Davis must be kicking himself right now!


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## prospect (Mar 26, 2014)

I dunno i feel more sorry for Bader


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

The Best Around said:


> He may have ran away because he knew there was weed in the car, and that was his first instinct. Who knows. Does he deserve the benefit of the doubt? Probably not, at this point. But we can't know for sure.
> 
> It can definitely be hypocritical. With the other crap Bones has done, he was never suspended, really dealt with, etc. And now when he did another thing, he's all of a sudden stripped of the belt a handful of days later? That'd be like in baseball if you got caught for steroids, and your punishment was 0 games on the first offense, 0 games on the second offense, and an entire season on the third offense.
> 
> As I've said, if the fight happens in September, there is zero chance Bones gets stripped of the belt at this point. But because they have a big PPV coming up and it's near the Mayweather fight, they want all hands on deck.


Maybe he was on his way of picking up some more coke. Cops often find it suspicious when they find people carrying a large load of cash on them (and sometimes withhold your cash). Being that he has 10 million or so (so I've heard) in his bank account. I don' think he went back for the cash cause you needs to salvage his money. Just my own speculation, of why a millionaire runs back to a hit & run scene, and risks being seen by more witnesses to grab money he could really do without.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

The Best Around said:


> He may have ran away because he knew there was weed in the car, and that was his first instinct. Who knows. Does he deserve the benefit of the doubt? Probably not, at this point. But we can't know for sure.
> 
> It can definitely be hypocritical. With the other crap Bones has done, he was never suspended, really dealt with, etc. And now when he did another thing, he's all of a sudden stripped of the belt a handful of days later? That'd be like in baseball if you got caught for steroids, and your punishment was 0 games on the first offense, 0 games on the second offense, and an entire season on the third offense.
> 
> As I've said, if the fight happens in September, there is zero chance Bones gets stripped of the belt at this point. But because they have a big PPV coming up and it's near the Mayweather fight, they want all hands on deck.


Umm no, felony charges are why he lost the belt. Are they going to have a guy headline a ppv that is booked in court for a felony? That reflects so bad on the UFC that they were forced, simply can't have a suspected felon as the face of the UFC.


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

rabakill said:


> Umm no, felony charges are why he lost the belt. Are they going to have a guy headline a ppv that is booked in court for a felony? That reflects so bad on the UFC that they were forced, simply can't have a suspected felon as the face of the UFC.


A combination of what happened and the next title defense are why he lost the belt. For you (and anyone else) who thinks he lost the belt solely due to what he did and nothing with timing- if the fight was scheduled for the fall, do you think he would have been stripped by now? Or do you think the UFC would have waited a little bit to make a decision?

Again, I am in no way supporting Bones in this, or the cocaine, or especially the drunk-driving. The benefit of all of this is that maybe he can get his life in order and stop acting like he's 18 years old. But the stripping of the title is only due to the fact that the fight was coming up soon and surrounded by Mayweather, and I stand by that.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)




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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Woodenhead said:


>


Haha, awesome.

Would rep but need to spread.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

The Best Around said:


> A combination of what happened and the next title defense are why he lost the belt. For you (and anyone else) who thinks he lost the belt solely due to what he did and nothing with timing- if the fight was scheduled for the fall, do you think he would have been stripped by now? Or do you think the UFC would have waited a little bit to make a decision?
> 
> Again, I am in no way supporting Bones in this, or the cocaine, or especially the drunk-driving. The benefit of all of this is that maybe he can get his life in order and stop acting like he's 18 years old. But the stripping of the title is only due to the fact that the fight was coming up soon and surrounded by Mayweather, and I stand by that.


I disagree, felony charge and UFC headliner contradict too much. Has there ever been a fighter accused of a felony to face trial that headlines an event? The UFC needs to distance itself from the word felon, plain and simple. They'll never say it but every ad exec and pr guy is going to be telling Dana that.

Johnson was suspended for suspected domestic violence on September 19, he wasn't even charged. The precedent supports my position. Think about it, Johnson was suspected and suspended. Jones is set to face trial. You are being obtuse.


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## Jumanji (Mar 30, 2011)

I saw on Fox Sports 1 a lawyer saying that usually this crime is 3 years in jail. He said he might be able to get 1-2, but he has to convince the judge that he was sure no one was hurt before fleeing. If the lawyer is right, that would be some crazy stuff.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

It really is sad to see a talented fighter piss his whole career away in one night. Dude needs some serious growing up to do. Maybe prison will deflate that ego of his.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Does anyone really think Jon is getting a year? Seriously. To quote a movie, "Vince Neal only did 30 days and he killed somebody."


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

The Best Around said:


> The answer would be: Jon Jones. It's a complete double standard. Getting into a drunk-driving accident is way worse than this was. But at the time he was fresh off of a defense against Rashad and didn't have an immediate fight, so he was let off the hook. Plus, UFC was coming into a transition period of sorts at the time.
> 
> Then you have this which is not as bad, and he's stripped. People will perceive it as the "straw that broke the camel's back", whereas I perceive as a "shit, boxing has the biggest fight of all-time coming up, and we had a big card that will have this cloud over it, so let's make it a permanent title fight to save face". If this title fight was scheduled for September, he would not have been stripped. That's where my problem with this lies.


I agree with your stances more than many here I thibk.

But your posts in this thread are mind boggling.

So a Dui crashing into a pole is worse than driving drunk....crashing into a lafy who happens to be pregnat....then run from the scene....have pot in thr car....and then give police a tough time locating you until maybe you sober up.

Thats quite a stance. 

Then you spin the fact you said champs have done far worse and not been stripped by saying you meant Bones.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

Haven't been here in a while...don't know if it has been said but I'm thinking that the fact that they didn't fire him, but stripped him of the title will lead to a more interesting LHW division with JBJ having to climb back up the ladder...
UFC had to take action and I guess they also saw an opportunity...


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## JASONJRF (Nov 3, 2009)

Does anyone actually know why Jones ran? Was he drunk? Accidents happen it's not a big deal. There was a reason he ran I still say probably drinking or drugs.


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## JASONJRF (Nov 3, 2009)

FYI I was told by a buddy of mine who was a cop that if you ever are drunk driving or something like that and you hit something the best thing you can do is go hide till you sober up then go to someones house near the crime scene and ring the doorbell and say you don't know what happened and use there phone. Now this works better if you are not seen but if Jones was smart enough he could have stumbled out of the car holding his head. The point is you sober up. You say you hit your head and don't know what happened you just woke up. The drugs or alcohol are out of your system and it's very hard to prove in court that it isn't true. Just saying it sounds silly but it has and does work.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Hum, interesting. Anthony Johnson did not complain he wasn't training to face former HW DC Cormier short notice so the fight is up, but in all fairness, DC can't be considered as dangerous as a former MW like Chael Sonnen. :thumb02:


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

JASONJRF said:


> Does anyone actually know why Jones ran? Was he drunk? Accidents happen it's not a big deal. There was a reason he ran I still say probably drinking or drugs.


I don't know if we'll ever officially know. I think it's a safe assumption that he wanted to escape a toxicology test. Accidents aren't illegal, but a 2nd DUI is pretty horrendous (especially considering how recent his last DUI was). He probably had little time to decide the lesser of the two evils. Hit & run or 2nd DUI. All speculation of course.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well Anthony Johnson is a different fighter when it comes to mentality. He's got that I will fight anywhere anytime mentality. Jon Jones has more of a how can I strategize mentality.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> Does anyone really think Jon is getting a year? Seriously. To quote a movie, "Vince Neal only did 30 days and he killed somebody."



You are 100% right....If the fertita's hire his legal team he'll be fine.
If the dummy picks his own lawyers anything could happen.

around here a hit and run after a dwi is pretty serious. I knew a guy who died in prison doing time for that.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

JASONJRF said:


> FYI I was told by a buddy of mine who was a cop that if you ever are drunk driving or something like that and you hit something the best thing you can do is go hide till you sober up then go to someones house near the crime scene and ring the doorbell and say you don't know what happened and use there phone. Now this works better if you are not seen but if Jones was smart enough he could have stumbled out of the car holding his head. The point is you sober up. You say you hit your head and don't know what happened you just woke up. The drugs or alcohol are out of your system and it's very hard to prove in court that it isn't true. Just saying it sounds silly but it has and does work.


...reminds me of the time when I was 17 and "someone" stole my dad's brand new truck from a party I was at and totaled it on friday the 13th


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

rabakill said:


> I disagree, felony charge and UFC headliner contradict too much. Has there ever been a fighter accused of a felony to face trial that headlines an event? The UFC needs to distance itself from the word felon, plain and simple. They'll never say it but every ad exec and pr guy is going to be telling Dana that.
> 
> Johnson was suspended for suspected domestic violence on September 19, he wasn't even charged. The precedent supports my position. Think about it, Johnson was suspected and suspended. Jones is set to face trial. You are being obtuse.


Yes, you can suspend Jones but he doesn't have to be stripped of the title. Johnson was suspended then fighting a few months later. Why not see how it plays out for a month or two, then make a decision? And if Bones can fight within a year, keep the belt on him. But they didn't want the cloud hanging over the head during the Mayweather fight hype, so they stripped him on first instinct.


----------



## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I agree with your stances more than many here I thibk.
> 
> But your posts in this thread are mind boggling.
> 
> ...


Driving drunk is worse. The END RESULT of this was worse, yes. We don't know if he was under the influence or not, so we cannot say. But in general, driving drunk is essentially the intention to do wrong from the get-go, whereas this accident was done accidentally. 

A crappy analogy so early in the morning: if i chucked a rock at your head and missed, but then I accidentally elbowed you in the face and ran away, which is worse? To me the first one, since it was intentional from the get-go.


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

The Best Around said:


> jonnyg4508 said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with your stances more than many here I thibk.
> ...


It is a crappy analogy, because Jones was most likely DUI, and all fact point to you elbowing me in the face on purpose.

Anyways I don't really understand what are you arguing for. Whether it's worse or not or whether it is happening because of the Mayweather fight, it really doesn't matter because first of all it's only speculation and that's all it is, and second, Jones got what he deserved.


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## prospect (Mar 26, 2014)

So jones was dropped from the p4p list... Kneel before me


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

oldfan said:


> You are 100% right....If the fertita's hire his legal team he'll be fine.
> If the dummy picks his own lawyers anything could happen.
> 
> around here a hit and run after a dwi is pretty serious. I knew a guy who died in prison doing time for that.


I reckon Jones will offer a settlement of 7 figures, which the lady will accept, and then the charges will be dropped down to a misdemeanour


----------



## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

Leed said:


> It is a crappy analogy, because Jones was most likely DUI, and all fact point to you elbowing me in the face on purpose.
> 
> Anyways I don't really understand what are you arguing for. Whether it's worse or not or whether it is happening because of the Mayweather fight, it really doesn't matter because first of all it's only speculation and that's all it is, and second, Jones got what he deserved.


I was arguing since like ten people have asked me about the comment where I said a champion has done worse before (which to me was Bones' drunk-driving), and then everyone keeps asking me to back it up, which is why I keep repeating myself about it.

In conclusion, to me the drunk-driving was still worse, but that's a matter of opinion. And I believe that if Bones was not scheduled to fight so soon, then he would still have the title belt on him.


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

The Best Around said:


> I was arguing since like ten people have asked me about the comment where I said a champion has done worse before (which to me was Bones' drunk-driving), and then everyone keeps asking me to back it up, which is why I keep repeating myself about it.
> 
> In conclusion, to me the drunk-driving was still worse, but that's a matter of opinion. And I believe that if Bones was not scheduled to fight so soon, then he would still have the title belt on him.


Ya but Jones was most likely drunk or high when this accident happened so its hard to say one is worse. There is literally no other reason Jones would run from the scene so in my eyes this is a dui without the charge on top of the felony hit and run.

People keep asking you to elaborate because we dont understand your point of view.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

Ape City said:


> Ya but Jones was most likely drunk or high when this accident happened so its hard to say one is worse. There is literally no other reason Jones would run from the scene so in my eyes this is a dui without the charge on top of the felony hit and run.
> 
> People keep asking you to elaborate because we dont understand your point of view.


Exactly, how can that be worse when this is the same thing, only he hurt someone this time.


----------



## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

Ape City said:


> Ya but Jones was most likely drunk or high when this accident happened so its hard to say one is worse. There is literally no other reason Jones would run from the scene so in my eyes this is a dui without the charge on top of the felony hit and run.
> 
> People keep asking you to elaborate because we dont understand your point of view.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Jones may have run from the scene since he knew there was weed in the car. He's not exactly the brightest person in the world, so running away could have been the first thing he thought of. Obviously that's not the right decision, but when someone (who isn't smart) has a few seconds to react and knows what is at stake, that might come to mind first.

My point of view to sum it up is that right now, I cannot assume that he was high/drunk in this incident. So to me, driving drunk is worse than this, because from the second you get behind that wheel while drunk, you are putting everyone on the road in danger. It is almost as if you're okay with knowing that you might injure someone. And when this happened, Bones got NO sort of punishment from UFC.

Now this happened, and the ending result was worse because he injured someone else. However, like with a lot of accidents, the end result in injury tends to be chance a lot of the time. So the ending result was worse, but if he was sober behind the wheel, then this was more accident. Whereas the first drunk-driving accident was him putting tons of people in danger by driving drunk.

For all the stuff he's done in the past, the UFC took NO action. And now he's stripped of the title, the other extreme. Like I said, that'd be like in baseball if you got suspended 0 games for steroids on your first offense, 0 games on your second offense, and a full season on your third offense. UFC took no action in the past since he was coming off of a defense or no upcoming defense. But because he had a fight coming up really soon and they want to run on the Mayweather wave, they made the rash decision to strip him.


----------



## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

The Best Around said:


> *Jones may have run from the scene since he knew there was weed in the car.* He's not exactly the brightest person in the world, so running away could have been the first thing he thought of. Obviously that's not the right decision, but when someone (who isn't smart) has a few seconds to react and knows what is at stake, that might come to mind first.


If that were in anyway a possibility, why did he come back and take the cash, but leave the weed?

I'd say there is a pretty much 100% chance he was either drunk or high.


----------



## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

Killz said:


> If that were in anyway a possibility, why did he come back and take the cash, but leave the weed?
> 
> I'd say there is a pretty much 100% chance he was either drunk or high.


100% chance might be a little low. Jones is not stupid, in fact I would say he is quite intelligent. Some very intelligent people have addiction issues. The only time they get stupid is when they are high, he was most definitely high, via drink or drugs, probably both.


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

The Best Around said:


> Jones may have run from the scene since he knew there was weed in the car. *He's not exactly the brightest person in the world*, so running away could have been the first thing he thought of. Obviously that's not the right decision, but when someone (*who isn't smart*) has a few seconds to react and knows what is at stake, that might come to mind first.


Man, this is craziness, specially coming from you. *How Jon Jones is not smart?* Jon Jones has all capability of thinking and thinking better than lots of people. He wins his fights by studying his opponents and *outsmarting* them in preparation and on the go. He is well spoken, he is eloquent enough when asked direct and complex questions. To say Jon Jones, former Undisputed UFC LHW Champion, said to be one of the best athletes in the game, celebrated as one of the best P4P in the world and forever GOAT (by slapshot  ) is not "bright", is just desperate attempt to cover what is really going on with him. This is as much nonsense as saying Anderson Silva is not versatile, no offense, Life. :wink03:

Jon Jones has no intelligence issues, *he does what he does because he wants to and so far nothing showed to him he should stop doing whatever he wanted*. However, I will give you this: A drug/alcohol addiction can and will shut down someones intelligence and thinking capability. There is your reasonable excuse for what Jones have been doing, not that he is straight up "not smart", "not bright".

Some may say that is very sad news to MMA, but it is really the other way around. That outcome was not only the best thing that could happen in MMA as a sport, but also the best thing that could happen to Jon Bones Jones in a personal level. He will have his chance to fix his life from now and he is really lucky nobody got killed, because lets face it, he could very well have killed that woman and her baby and nothing would take that from his head to the end of his days. Actually, I can say he does that shite at regular basis (DUI) and the only way we could speculate that with fair accuracy is he smashed his car in two different situations, with all the evidences he left behind.

No matter how much you tell your kid not to stick shite in the power outlets, he eventually try it out until he senses the shock and then he'll learn. Bones just got electrocuted. That's his chance to go ahead and come back a better person.

PS: Please, stop throwing the Mayweather fight around. That has absolutely ZERO to do with any of this, like ZERO, ZERO.



Term said:


> 100% chance might be a little low. Jones is not stupid, in fact I would say *he is quite intelligent*. Some very intelligent people have addiction issues. *The only time they get stupid is when they are high,* he was most definitely high, via drink or drugs, probably both.


Exactly :thumbsup: . I was still writing my post when you posted this. There's no way to consider Jon Jones not intelligent.


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

The Best Around said:


> I was arguing since like ten people have asked me about the comment where I said a champion has done worse before (which to me was Bones' drunk-driving), and then everyone keeps asking me to back it up, which is why I keep repeating myself about it.


:laugh:

Wouldn't it be easier to simply admit you worded your original post wrong, instead of repeatedly trying and failing to spin your statement into something remotely reasonable?


----------



## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

The Best Around said:


> Yes, you can suspend Jones but he doesn't have to be stripped of the title. Johnson was suspended then fighting a few months later. Why not see how it plays out for a month or two, then make a decision? And if Bones can fight within a year, keep the belt on him. But they didn't want the cloud hanging over the head during the Mayweather fight hype, so they stripped him on first instinct.


He's going to come back and fight for the title anyways, this was a business decision you can't have the LHW, HW, and MW champions all fighting once a year...if you are lucky. The May card needs that title fight so they made the title fight.


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

The Best Around said:


> I was arguing since like ten people have asked me about the comment where *I said a champion* has done worse before (which to me was Bones' drunk-driving), and then everyone keeps asking me to back it up, which is why I keep repeating myself about it.


Actually, you did not say "a champion", you've said "*champions*", in plural, and spoke about "*they and their*" belts, so it defintely did not sound like you were talking about Bones at all, so please understand how people could get confused about that.



The Best Around said:


> From a UFC perspective, it's a huge joke. There have been way worse things done *by champions*, and *they* kept *their belts*.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Why is Cormier and AJ main event?


----------



## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Why is Cormier and AJ main event?


Heavier weight class for the championship fight and to punish Weidman/Belfort for pulling out of so many fights.


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Why is Cormier and AJ main event?


Because Vitor will dispose of Weidman in 30 seconds? :thumb02:


----------



## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> Man, this is craziness, specially coming from you. *How Jon Jones is not smart?* Jon Jones has all capability of thinking and thinking better than lots of people. He wins his fights by studying his opponents and *outsmarting* them in preparation and on the go. He is well spoken, he is eloquent enough when asked direct and complex questions. To say Jon Jones, former Undisputed UFC LHW Champion, said to be one of the best athletes in the game, celebrated as one of the best P4P in the world and forever GOAT (by slapshot  ) is not "bright", is just desperate attempt to cover what is really going on with him. This is as much nonsense as saying Anderson Silva is not versatile, no offense, Life. :wink03:
> 
> Jon Jones has no intelligence issues, *he does what he does because he wants to and so far nothing showed to him he should stop doing whatever he wanted*. However, I will give you this: A drug/alcohol addiction can and will shut down someones intelligence and thinking capability. There is your reasonable excuse for what Jones have been doing, not that he is straight up "not smart", "not bright".
> 
> ...


Theres intelligence, and theres common sense. The two often don't go hand in hand


----------



## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

*Dana White says this was Jon Jones last chance*



> The UFC president was a guest on ESPN's Sports Nation yesterday and commented on his former light heavyweight champ.
> 
> Dana White was a guest on ESPN's SportsNation live from Las Vegas yesterday and the topic of Jon Jones, the promotion's wayward former light heavyweight champion was an inevitable discussion point. The UFC suspended Jones and stripped him of his title following a car wreck that saw Jones charged with felony fleeing the scene.
> 
> ...


http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/4/30/8520177/dana-white-says-this-was-jon-jones-last-chance


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> Theres intelligence, and theres common sense. The two often don't go hand in hand


Absolutely true. Just ask my missus.


----------



## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

*Gustafsson believes the UFC ‘did the right thing’ to strip Jones of title*



> Former UFC title challenger Alexander Gustafsson posted a video message where he delved into the Jon Jones fiasco that took place over the past few days.
> 
> Much has taken place over the past few days: Jon Jones found himself the cause of a hit-and-run accident, charged with a felony, and finally, stripped of his UFC light-heavyweight title and suspended indefinitely by the promotion.
> 
> ...


http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/4/3...ight-thinkg-strip-jones-title-favour-mma-news


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

So, it was a U$ 25.000 bail, not U$ 2.500, then. Ten times higher than we thought. Bingo. That's the reason he always carry so much cash with him whenever he is driving a car. And people say he is not smart..


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> So, it was a U$ 25.000 bail, not U$ 2.500, then. Ten times higher than we thought. Bingo. That's the reason he always carry so much cash with him whenever he is driving a car. And people say he is not smart..


You're only required to pay 10% of your bail to make bail. It's weird like that.


----------



## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

http://mmajunkie.com/2015/04/a-brief-timeline-of-ufc-champ-jon-jones-run-ins-with-authorities


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

VolcomX311 said:


> You're only required to pay 10% of your bail to make bail. It's weird like that.


Hum, thanks. I dind't know that. And apparently neither did Bones, lol.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

VolcomX311 said:


> You're only required to pay 10% of your bail to make bail. It's weird like that.












I'm gonna go way out on a limb and guess that you've never had to make bail.

You can pay a bondsman a percentage (usually 15% around here) of the bond and you never get that money back and he puts up 100% of your bond. Or you put up 100% of the cash or property of equal value and you get it back when you show up for court.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

oldfan said:


> I'm gonna go way out on a limb and guess that you've never had to make bail.
> 
> You can pay a bondsman a percentage (usually 15% around here) of the bond and you never get that money back and he puts up 100% of your bond. Or you put up 100% of the cash or property of equal value and you get it back when you show up for court.


10% here in California to make bail, but I don't think anyone else cares about these facts.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

oldfan said:


> I'm gonna go way out on a limb and guess that you've never had to make bail.
> 
> You can pay a bondsman a percentage (usually 15% around here) of the bond and you never get that money back and he puts up 100% of your bond. Or you put up 100% of the cash or property of equal value and you get it back when you show up for court.


Was that from your indecent exposure days?


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> Was that from your indecent exposure days?


----------



## King Daisuke (Mar 25, 2013)

prospect said:


> Whose #1 P4P?


Yours?



Soojooko said:


> Ive already tried to coax an explanation, and got:
> 
> 
> 
> Needless to say anything more really...


I think it's because there are none.


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

I can't believe everyone is talking about this instead of mighty mouse's most recent victory.


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

Trying to respond to everyone....

1. Yes I may have used a poor choice of words when I was implying that there were multiple champions, when it was indeed just Bones himself.

2. Sportsman, this does have to do with Mayweather. if you don't believe it, that's fine. But I do believe it. Everyone wants to ride that wave. I can't see how anyone thinks that he'd be stripped right now if his next scheduled fight had been later in the year, and not so soon.

3. I don't think Jones is an intelligent guy. To me, someone intelligent would not drive drunk. Or have weed in the car, or do cocaine when he has kids. Maybe he's an intelligent fighter when it comes down to actually fighting, prepping, etc. But that doesn't mean he's intelligent in every day life. Clearly he's not.


----------



## King Daisuke (Mar 25, 2013)

Nevermind.


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

The Best Around said:


> Trying to respond to everyone....
> 
> 1. Yes I may have used a poor choice of words when I was implying that there were multiple champions, when it was indeed just Bones himself.
> 
> ...


How does this have to do with Mayweather? I don't get it.

It depends how you define intelligence. Jones would most likely do well on an Iq test. I would imagine Jones has good problem solving abilities. 

I think if Jones were a stupid person he would have sat there in his car and waited to get his second DUI. I think it is a smart person who runs to their lawyer, even while high or drunk, to deal with the mistake and avoid the much more serious charge of a second DUI.

Who knows if Jones only went back for money. Perhaps he removed cocaine from the car. That's just spculation, but it is still makes more sense than Jones being sober during the crash.

I still have not heard a single person give a logical reason why Jones would run from the scene if he was sober. There is no way you can convince me Jones is stupid enough to run from an accident when it was legitimately an accident an leave weed behind that he never even smoked. It just makes no sense at all. If Jones was sober then he would have nothing to hide and no reason to run. 

This is Jones' second DUI. Jones may not have a charge for it, but it's only because he IS an intelligent person and didn't go full "COPS".


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

The Best Around said:


> 3. I don't think Jones is an intelligent guy. To me, someone intelligent would not drive drunk. Or have weed in the car, or do cocaine when he has kids. Maybe he's an intelligent fighter when it comes down to actually fighting, prepping, etc. But that doesn't mean he's intelligent in every day life. Clearly he's not.


I am here to tell you that there have been many very smart people that have done stupid shit when they were high. It happens every day and addiction doesn't really concern itself with your IQ.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Ape City said:


> How does this have to do with Mayweather? I don't get it.
> 
> It depends how you define intelligence. Jones would most likely do well on an Iq test. I would imagine Jones has good problem solving abilities.
> 
> ...


Mayweather is a woman beater, Jack Johnson was able to defend his title on the lamb for violating the Mann act, Ray Lewis was given the MVP award while suspected of murder. Those are the only ones that come to mind.

As for a logical reason...well fear for his life. The guy in Baltimore was arrested for looking at a cop wrong and he died. Also maybe he thought he could get away with it, you don't want to make it easier on the cops if you don't have to.

For me (and Luke Thomas) the more interesting thing is seeing how a suspension is going to work with a contractor which is what Jon Jones is. If Jon Jones want's to go to Bellator and the UFC refused to release him or give him fights what happens then? Does Jon Jones want to leave the UFC, is the UFC paying him not to fight to honor the contract.


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

John8204 said:


> Mayweather is a woman beater, Jack Johnson was able to defend his title on the lamb for violating the Mann act, Ray Lewis was given the MVP award while suspected of murder. Those are the only ones that come to mind.
> 
> As for a logical reason...well fear for his life. The guy in Baltimore was arrested for looking at a cop wrong and he died. Also maybe he thought he could get away with it, you don't want to make it easier on the cops if you don't have to.
> 
> For me (and Luke Thomas) the more interesting thing is seeing how a suspension is going to work with a contractor which is what Jon Jones is. If Jon Jones want's to go to Bellator and the UFC refused to release him or give him fights what happens then? Does Jon Jones want to leave the UFC, is the UFC paying him not to fight to honor the contract.


A contractor that also signed a code of conduct clause. You really think Jon Jones wants to fight for Bellator, and do you really think Bellator would sign him right now?


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

The Best Around said:


> Jones may have run from the scene since he knew there was weed in the car. He's not exactly the brightest person in the world, so running away could have been the first thing he thought of. Obviously that's not the right decision, but when someone (who isn't smart) has a few seconds to react and knows what is at stake, that might come to mind first.
> 
> My point of view to sum it up is that right now, I cannot assume that he was high/drunk in this incident. So to me, driving drunk is worse than this, because from the second you get behind that wheel while drunk, you are putting everyone on the road in danger. It is almost as if you're okay with knowing that you might injure someone. And when this happened, Bones got NO sort of punishment from UFC.
> 
> ...


It's not because someone got hurt, it's because he ran a red light (broken the law/endangered everybody), got into a car accident because he was driving illegally, and then instead of staying there and doing what any normal person would do, he took off running from the police/the incident like a coward. Somebody getting hurt in the aftermath is just icing on the cake.

In his DUI it was just that, a DUI. Bad absolutely, but a DUI. In this situation you have - running a red light (which by itself is nothing but it made him the direct cause of the crash), causing the crash that happened, fleeing the crash (hit and run), evading police, and possibly under the influence as well although we don't know for certain yet. The fact that someone was pregnant and had to be taken to the hospital just slaps a coat of paint around all the things he did wrong here.

Between that, the DUI and the coke, they made the right decision to strip and suspend him for sure. Honestly I was assuming it would be another wrist slap, but good on them.


----------



## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

oldfan said:


> I'm gonna go way out on a limb and guess that you've never had to make bail.
> 
> You can pay a bondsman a percentage (usually 15% around here) of the bond and you never get that money back and he puts up 100% of your bond. Or you put up 100% of the cash or property of equal value and you get it back when you show up for court.


It's 10% around here(AZ), but you are correct on everything else. It only makes sense to use a bail bondsman if you don't have the cash to pay your bond on a cash bond. But if you have the money, it's better to just pay the full cash bond yourself & get the money back minus any courts fees or fines you may be required to pay one the case is disposed. 

Source: I got into a jam & had a 10k cash bond about 10 years ago. I paid the 10k cash bond & the bond was released after they dropped the charges.


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

Ape City: This has to do with Mayweather in terms of how UFC looks right now. Boxing has the biggest fight in the history of pretty much everything. UFC had their biggest card of the year right around it. There is a crossover and UFC wanted to ride the momentum wave of fight fans by having a huge card. But with the title fight gone, it just would've been an underwhelming card with a cloud hanging over it. But instead, now it's back to two title fights. Again, I don't see how anyone thinks Bones would be stripped by now if the fight was set for the fall instead of May.

M.C: First of all, the pregnant part has zero to do with it. That's unfortunate, but that's luck of the draw- nobody's fault. The running the red light/crash could easily be an accident. I've ran red lights before on accident. But if he was like "ah screw it, I do what I want!", then that's a different story. And if he was under the influence, that's a different story. But these are all assumptions. He probably doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point, but I can't make conclusions without proper evidence. Fleeing the scene was also bad judgment, although he could've been scared and didn't want to be seen with all the weed. I still consider the drunk-driving worse because that was cut and dry, whereas details of this will forever be murky.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Term said:


> A contractor that also signed a code of conduct clause. You really think Jon Jones wants to fight for Bellator, and do you really think Bellator would sign him right now?


We don't know what's in the contract and what would hold up in court. If the UFC says, Jon your are suspended for five years and we aren't paying you..would that hold up in court. These contracts have a tendency not to hold up in court, the issue is if Jon wishes to leave.

As for Bellator...they keep bringing in Paul Daley, they had War Machine under contract while he was in Prison you don't think they would pay for a top five draw. If anything they would likely triple his UFC pay.

The UFC isn't telling us how long he's suspended or that he won't just fight for the title when he returns in a year it makes me wonder if we aren't being hoodwinked a little bit here. If the UFC isn't coming down on Jones hard in public but in private they aren't working together on this.


----------



## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> *How Jon Jones is not smart?* Jon Jones has all capability of thinking and thinking better than lots of people. He wins his fights by studying his opponents and *outsmarting* them in preparation and on the go. He is well spoken, he is eloquent enough when asked direct and complex questions.
> 
> Jon Jones has no intelligence issues, *he does what he does because he wants to and so far nothing showed to him he should stop doing whatever he wanted*.


He has a coach/camp that takes care of most of that for him. Doesn't mean a thing. And I've known plenty of people who can speak "eloquently" yet are still dumb as dirt. Some of those people even post on the internet. :thumb02: Truly intelligent people don't do all of the dumb crud JBJ has done; the only way he can be described as intelligent is if the bar is lower than it should be. (which I suspect is exactly the case)

Potato.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Lmfao did John just imply that cops would abuse the current UFC Light Heavyweight champion in jail? Cause yeah, pissing off the full force of the UFC's legal team is going to be just stellar amidst a recent run of race riots.


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Woodenhead said:


> *He has a coach/camp that takes care of most of that for him. Doesn't mean a thing.*


WTF does it mean? :confused02: 

Doesn't ALL pro fighters have coaches and camps to take care of things for fighters? And are ALL fighters JBSs, GSPs and Andersons because they do?

Fabio Maldonado is an intellectually limited person. Palhares is an intellectually limited person. Jones is not a limited person like them, on the contrary, he just happen to have bad habits and he is a junkie.

Chael Sonnen is a very intelligent person. Look how many bad choices he made in his life.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

If you think Jon Jones is a junkie I want to give you a tour of Clydebank


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Sportsman, all I was saying was that you used JBJ's in-ring intelligence as a gauge for his overall intelligence, and I feel it's a poor indicator as that's what one's coach/camp takes care of. That's the same for every fighter.

Sonnen was a dumb person making dumb decisions. He has since learned from them and made himself better. (so far, IDK if he's perfect or whateever, this isn't about him anyway)

JBJ is a dumb person making dumb decisions. He hasn't learned a thing yet.

One gains intelligence from learning, over time. JBJ has a lot of learning to do before I'd consider him to be anything other than dumb. Time will tell.

Just my friendly view, no worries mate.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

JBJ seems relatively intelligent generally, but he's obviously just one of those dumb kids when he's outside with a certain group of people. He's intelligent but lacks common sense.

Sonnen's always been very intelligent.


----------



## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Lmfao did John just imply that cops would abuse the current UFC Light Heavyweight champion in jail? Cause yeah, pissing off the full force of the UFC's legal team is going to be just stellar amidst a recent run of race riots.


Oh I'm sorry you obviously didn't get what I was saying.

I'm not saying that the cops would abuse Jon Jones in jail, I'm saying the cops might shoot a giant african american on site and later claim he was charging them....and then maybe they will find out he was UFC LH champion later.

Would the cops do that...probably not, but I'm not a giant black man and neither are you and the issue is what other reason would he have to leave.

I wouldn't think the police would kidnap a protestor on national TV but well, we don't know where Joseph Kent is.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> JBJ seems relatively intelligent generally, but he's obviously just one of those dumb kids when he's outside with a certain group of people. He's intelligent but lacks common sense.
> 
> Sonnen's always been very intelligent.


What makes you sure he is intelligent?

When he posts videos he seems rather stupid.

He says nothing interesting or witty ever.

Jones may not be Palhares slow but I dont gather "intelligent" from anyyhing he says or does.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

I've seen more American police executions this year than I have ISIS executions.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> JBJ seems relatively intelligent generally, but he's obviously just one of those dumb kids when he's outside with a certain group of people. He's intelligent but lacks common sense.
> 
> Sonnen's always been very intelligent.


You're mistaking intelligence for intellectualism. Neither Jon Jones or Chael Sonnen are intelligent.

Intellectualism without true intelligence is probably the most destructive force on earth.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> What makes you sure he is intelligent?
> 
> When he posts videos he seems rather stupid.
> 
> ...


Or Diaz brothers slow, but see, you find them intelligent...


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

And I'm saying world champion celebrities with an endless amount of resources and a proven high level extensive legal team behind I'm, in addition to millions of fans and the recent events surrounding racial tension with the police.............it's pretty much like saying "I'm surprised Jose Aldo didn't just stab Conor in the neck".

johnny, is wittiness intelligence? I'm told I'm witty enough but really I'm just a dick . But nah he seems articulated enough. He thinks about what he says before he says it, tries to speak properly and generally carries himself pretty well professionally. He's the opposite as I'd be that way. Jones is just a complete knobend when he's out with his mates, which is he wasn't driving and wasn't a pro wouldn't be a problem.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

The Diaz bro's struggle to articulate themselves in front of a camera and aren't the most INTELLECTUAL - but they're certainly not stupid, not by a long, long shot.

Nick has his own boss Dana White wrapped round his little finger.


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> The Diaz bro's struggle to articulate themselves in front of a camera and aren't the most INTELLECTUAL - but they're certainly not stupid, not by a long, long shot.
> 
> Nick has his own boss Dana White wrapped round his little finger.


This debate about intelligence is really widening up. Too many angles and semantic issues. I get you can have a good fast computer but load it with crappy programs and also you can have a limited machine that will get overloaded and stall upon running more complex programs. 

That being said, Jones does not look like his hardware is flawed like Palhares or Maldonado, but he run destructive programs no one could terminate so far. He needs rebooting and a disk clean up.

About the Diaz, agree to disagree. I don't know the issue with the Diaz, but no one could say they are at the brightest side of society by watching they speak or watching what they do. Both could be in way better position they are today wasn't for their craziness. What's intelligent about that? To fight once a year or two when you could be active and making fans happy, making tons of money to be up there where their names are, instead, they criticize hard working dudes like Cerrone, stop fighting by their will and when do come to fight a big fight (Nate vs Rda), Nate shows up overweight and tries to pick a fight back stage. 

Look so many interesting fights Nick could be fighting at WW. But he disappoints his own fans being away by it's will, not because he is hurt or he been suspended. Wow, don't forget Nick has a DUI on his own.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> This debate about intelligence is really widening up. Too many angles and semantic issues. I get you can have a good fast computer but load it with crappy programs and also you can have a limited machine that will get overloaded and stall upon running more complex programs.
> 
> That being said, Jones does not look like his hardware is flawed like Palhares or Maldonado, but he run destructive programs no one could terminate so far. He needs rebooting and a disk clean up.
> 
> ...


lmao at your comparison towards intelligence to computers and Jones need a disk scrub - that was brilliant :thumbsup: Spot on.

Diaz has entertained fans for years and he's been in the game for a long, long time. He's largely done with the sport and will only turn up now for a big paycheck with an exciting fighter. I don't think that's dumb on his part at all. How many people two or so years ago would have thought Nick Diaz would be taking on Anderson Silva? Not a whole lot.

Nate looks up to his older brother and tries to mimic his antics all the time - but he's yet to realise he's not his brother, nor is he in his position or carry the same star value. He needs to choose his own path and stop copying his brother all the time.

Btw - the difference between intelligence and intellectualism:

True intelligence:










Intellectualism without a shred of intelligence:


----------



## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Agree 1000%. Tesla was a true genius, Dawkins is a typical academic intellectual fascist narcissist.


----------



## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

Dawkins is unintelligent? Riiiight.. I can see how some might view him as arrogant but stupid, come on. What specifically is he actually wrong about?


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> lmao at your comparison towards intelligence to computers and Jones need a disk scrub - that was brilliant :thumbsup: Spot on.
> 
> Diaz has entertained fans for years and he's been in the game for a long, long time. He's largely done with the sport and will only turn up now for a big paycheck with an exciting fighter. I don't think that's dumb on his part at all. How many people two or so years ago would have thought Nick Diaz would be taking on Anderson Silva? Not a whole lot.
> 
> ...


You are defending the Diaz as a fan does. Not differently than Best Around defending Bones. That's OK. You gonna see things your way.

About your statement on my computer comparison, I don't know if you are being sarcastic, but you are aware we need "hardware" and "software" to perform in this world and interact with people and facts of life, right?

So, people can be limited by their hardware due to some genetic malformation, or sub nutrition, or brain trauma, etc. Jon Jones doesn't look like he has a "hardware" malfunction here.

On the other side, supposing you hardware works fine, we have the "software" part of our beings that needs to be developed. So, you pick a supposedly perfect formed brain and let evolved human beings to work with it, feeding it with information, education, mental exercises, books to read, moral standards, respect. 

Now if this perfect physically formed brain will end up surrounded by not too bright people, his software won't achieve optimal development and he won't be able to gather information and process it the way it could.

By the way, I have no problem saying I have no freaking idea who these two folks are, so that had no much impact on me and I am sure, on most here.


----------



## oordeel (Apr 14, 2007)

Tesla was indeed brilliant. But to claim that Dawkins does not have a shred of intelligence? That's just ignorant.


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Oh, that was Tesla? Thanks. Never saw his picture. The other guy, though, never heard of him.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

oordeel said:


> Tesla was indeed brilliant. But to claim that Dawkins does not have a shred of intelligence? That's just ignorant.


I don't think there's a shred of intelligence between Richard Dawkins and Stephen Hawkings if you rubbed their heads together.

Anyone that claims free will does not exist has absolutely no common sense or true intelligence what so ever - despite being able to calculate things like a computer.

Computers are very clever too - they can perform certain tasks quicker and more efficiently than any human being, but there's not one single ray of intelligence in any of these programmed machines what so ever.













Dawkins and Hawkings fit nicely to the left there.

@Sportsman, I wasn't being sarcastic, I actually agree very much with your computer/human comparison.


----------



## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> @Sportsman, I wasn't being sarcastic, I actually agree very much with your computer/human comparison.


Oh, thanks.


----------



## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> I don't think there's a shred of intelligence between Richard Dawkins and Stephen Hawkings if you rubbed their heads together.
> 
> Anyone that claims free will does not exist has absolutely no common sense or true intelligence what so ever - despite being able to calculate things like a computer.
> 
> ...


Ok so it's the good old "anyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid". 

I don't recall the problem of free will being a major thesis of Dawkins, but anyway, free will (in the strong sense only) seems indeed incompatible with the secular naturalistic world view which place our minds as part of the physical world (and therefore is best explained as illusive in this view). 

So to actually _show _him wrong instead of just calling him stupid you need to show how naturalism goes wrong and defend an alternative view which would allow and explain strong free will. It would require some sort of Cartesian dualism which regards our minds as incorporeal substances or whatever, not governed by the physical laws. Substancial dualism faces unsurpassable problems however, which have long since been well documented by Hume and others.

Pseudo-scientific diagrams or misguided computer analogies doesn't cut it.


----------



## Warning (Nov 18, 2009)

That was some messed up stuff. Jon's and this topic just hit rock bottom.


----------



## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

I am always impressed at Reptilian's ability to turn MMA topics into political / idealistic / opinionated subjects which suit him.

That isn't sarcasm either. It is impressive.


----------



## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

where'd this thread go? lol


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

That's a very good question all things considered.


----------



## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

Yeah sorry guys I agree. It was embarrassingly irrelevant but just couldn't resist it being my field of nerdiness and all. :shame02:


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Wait a sec, did someone say Nate Diaz was intelligent in this thread?


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

I would love to piss in Dawkins eye while he sleeps.

That is all.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

The Best Around said:


> M.C: First of all, the pregnant part has zero to do with it. That's unfortunate, but that's luck of the draw- *nobody's fault.* The running the red light/crash *could easily be an accident.* I've ran red lights before on accident. But if he was like "ah screw it, I do what I want!", then that's a different story. And if he was under the influence, that's a different story. But these are all assumptions.* He probably doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point,* but I can't make conclusions without proper evidence. Fleeing the scene was also bad judgment, although he could've been* scared and didn't want to be seen with all the weed.* I still consider the drunk-driving worse because that was cut and dry, whereas details of this will forever be murky.


I'll help you out here. Everything I've highlighted in bold. Jones's fault. :thumbsup: 

I don't see any way you can defend Jones in this scenario. Saying the DUI was worse is ridiculous, just because he got caught.

Nobody flees the scene of an accident if they aren't either high, or drunk, or both. Then on top of that he injured somebody. Then on top of that had drugs in the car.

This is way WAY worse.


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

Killz said:


> The Best Around said:
> 
> 
> > M.C: First of all, the pregnant part has zero to do with it. That's unfortunate, but that's luck of the draw- *nobody's fault.* The running the red light/crash *could easily be an accident.* I've ran red lights before on accident. But if he was like "ah screw it, I do what I want!", then that's a different story. And if he was under the influence, that's a different story. But these are all assumptions.* He probably doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point,* but I can't make conclusions without proper evidence. Fleeing the scene was also bad judgment, although he could've been* scared and didn't want to be seen with all the weed.* I still consider the drunk-driving worse because that was cut and dry, whereas details of this will forever be murky.
> ...


What's your take on driving high? Do you consider as bas as driving drunk?


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Leed said:


> What's your take on driving high? Do you consider as bas as driving drunk?


Honestly, I don't know enough about it to give an educated opinion. Never really been one for drugs so I'm pretty clueless on how they effect things like depth perception, reaction time, awareness etc.


----------



## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

Leed said:


> What's your take on driving high? Do you consider as bas as driving drunk?


I do. Driving under the influence, whether it is alcohol, illegal drugs, or some prescription drugs are equally terrible. 

I can't believe anyone thinks a single car DUI accident, in which no one is injured, is worse than what happened this past Sunday.

If anyone does believe that, you are just trying to make excuses for Jones & need to take a long hard look at your self in a mirror. You might not like what you see.


----------



## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

I think alcohol is a lot worse. But then theres so many different strains of weed its a difficult argument. If it has very high THC content it can be pretty debilitating. Eating hash for example and then driving would be a serious risk. In general though being a bit stoned, compared to being a bit drunk the first might increase your chances of crashing a little bit, the second exponentially. Some strains of weed will heighten your reactions, that never happens with alcohol!


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Well, he wasn't just driving around a rental car smoking weed...

Think about it...

He got in a crash and got out and ran but then realized he left money, enough money to make him run BACK and collect it.

Whatever he was doing was probably shady as hell, who drives around with that kind of cash? My thought was he went back for something more incriminating and just grabbed the cash too.

He had to have been high on something to be stupid enough to run in the first place.

The funny part is that this will all blow over and the UFC will make nice with Jones and I bet dollars to donuts its JBJ headlining the first event in MSG.

Whats the UFC going to do fire him for real? BAWAHAHA nope.


----------



## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> I think alcohol is a lot worse. But then theres so many different strains of weed its a difficult argument. If it has very high THC content it can be pretty debilitating. Eating hash for example and then driving would be a serious risk. In general though being a bit stoned, compared to being a bit drunk the first might increase your chances of crashing a little bit, the second exponentially. Some strains of weed will heighten your reactions, that never happens with alcohol!


Impairment is Impairment. If you are high, drunk, or popping pills it doesn't matter. What you are comparing is drinking a small alcohol percentage beer to taking shots. Just because the weed has a less quantity of thc in it doesn't it's better than drinking a little bit of alcohol. If you intentionally consume anything to the point which you are impaired you shouldn't drive. Period. 

It is more difficult to prove Impairment with weed. That doesn't change the point though. 

Jones was obviously high or drunk when he got in the accident. If anyone thinks this was the first time he has driven like this since his last DUI you're kidding yourself.


----------



## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

John8204 said:


> Mayweather is a woman beater, Jack Johnson was able to defend his title on the lamb for violating the Mann act, Ray Lewis was given the MVP award while suspected of murder. Those are the only ones that come to mind.
> 
> As for a logical reason...well fear for his life. The guy in Baltimore was arrested for looking at a cop wrong and he died. Also maybe he thought he could get away with it, you don't want to make it easier on the cops if you don't have to.
> 
> For me (and Luke Thomas) the more interesting thing is seeing how a suspension is going to work with a contractor which is what Jon Jones is. If Jon Jones want's to go to Bellator and the UFC refused to release him or give him fights what happens then? Does Jon Jones want to leave the UFC, is the UFC paying him not to fight to honor the contract.


I was driving down the road and had some spots show on and they were talking about Jones and saying a lot of guys have been in a lot more trouble and got a complete pass, it sounded like they felt Jones was getting the short end of the stick after they pointed out all the other pro's that have gotten away with horrible shit, at least Jones was just being a ass and not trying to kill someone or commit a crime. 

I was surprised at how many people they were able to rattle off who did some serious crimes and didn't have to deal with even a suspension.


----------



## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Impairment is Impairment. If you are high, drunk, or popping pills it doesn't matter. What you are comparing is drinking a small alcohol percentage beer to taking shots. Just because the weed has a less quantity of thc in it doesn't it's better than drinking a little bit of alcohol. If you intentionally consume anything to the point which you are impaired you shouldn't drive. Period.
> 
> It is more difficult to prove Impairment with weed. That doesn't change the point though.
> 
> Jones was obviously high or drunk when he got in the accident. If anyone thinks this was the first time he has driven like this since his last DUI you're kidding yourself.


In some ways i'd agree with you but in other ways I wouldn't. I could smoke 5 joints of strong enough weed and drive no problem, if I had 5 whiskeys, 5 pints of beer, or 5 glasses of wine most likely i would have an accident. 
This is why laws are much stricter on driving drunk. If driving under the influence of weed was nearly as bad as alcohol, there would be much more stuff going on to combat it, awareness campaigns, and so on.


----------



## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> In some ways i'd agree with you but in other ways I wouldn't. I could smoke 5 joints of strong enough weed and drive no problem, if I had 5 whiskeys, 5 pints of beer, or 5 glasses of wine most likely i would have an accident.
> This is why laws are much stricter on driving drunk. If driving under the influence of weed was nearly as bad as alcohol, there would be much more stuff going on to combat it, awareness campaigns, and so on.


It's all a matter of impairment.

I drink petty often. I could probably drink 5 whiskeys and drive a car a hell of a lot better than I could if I smoked 5 joints (considering I don't smoke). This is why I am not a big fan of the standard .08% DUI. I think some people could probably drive just fine at .08% and even higher. I think it's even easier to just not drink and drive period and given how the laws are, this is what I recommend to all my friends.

With weed, if you can show their balance and coordination is off with field sobriety tests and they are displaying other objective symptoms, it's the same thing as driving intoxicated in my book. I think it probably benefits people who smoke weed regularly considering you must prove impairments... where as with alcohol, most of the time you need to prove they are over .08,

Laws are equally as bad for both where I am. I honestly don't think the campaign is as much against weed because alcohol is so much more prominent. It is definitely an issue though and as the push for weed to become legal grows, so will the crimes associated with it (such as DUI).


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> It's all a matter of impairment.
> 
> I drink petty often. I could probably drink 5 whiskeys and drive a car a hell of a lot better than I could if I smoked 5 joints (considering I don't smoke). This is why I am not a big fan of the standard .08% DUI. I think some people could probably drive just fine at .08% and even higher. I think it's even easier to just not drink and drive period and given how the laws are, this is what I recommend to all my friends.
> 
> ...


Good points! I guess you need a baseline for everything. 

One experience comes to mind about drinking and impairment. And remember Im Irish so there is a certain in built alcohol capacity! 
I used to live in southern italy years ago and had myself a little sports car. Down there you can drive like a maniac, and straight down the middle of the road if you want. People will just move aside in the cars and not even blast the horn. So anyway I used to do the same journey everyday which was an hours drive, and drive it at an almost moronic speed of about 120mph on certain stretches of road. One night I went out and had 2 bottles of beer. Didn't even feel the tiniest bit tipsy. On my way home, driving at the same speed I always did, I came off the road twice onto the dirt or whatever. It really was a wake up call on how your reactions are just not the same even with a tiny bit of alcohol.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Nomale said:


> Ok so it's the good old "anyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid".
> 
> I don't recall the problem of free will being a major thesis of Dawkins, but anyway, free will (in the strong sense only) seems indeed incompatible with the secular naturalistic world view which place our minds as part of the physical world (and therefore is best explained as illusive in this view).
> 
> ...


As expected, complete over intellectualization on a very simple matter from a scientism supporter.

You want me to prove to you free will exists? You prove it to yourself every single day, there's no rigid analytical science involved.

I, through my own free will, can either choose to do good or evil, and so do you, and everyone else on this planet.

If free will doesn't exist then there is no such thing as right/wrong. Every murderer, rapist, child molester, thief - they've done NOTHING wrong because free will doesn't exist folks.

How dare you judge the man who's just raped an 8 year old child and deem his actions wrong - it wasn't his fault, he has no free will and didn't CHOOSE to **** that child.

Why are we even bothering to condemn Jon Jones in this thread if there's no such thing as free will? Jon clearly didn't choose to run the red light and crash into a pregnant lady while under the influence of drugs. He didn't have the free will to decide any of that, therefore he's not responsible for his actions and has done nothing wrong.

I've never heard any thing so absurd as for someone to claim free will doesn't exist and that people are not responsible for their actions. 

What a load of bunk.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Saw something on itunes today which grind my gears it did.

That wankers ( Dawkins ) "god delusion" piece of shit book is in the science & nature genre. And yet Sheldrakes "the science delusion" is in the religion & spirituality section.

Reading the books, only one of them is in the true nature of science, and the other is a tome of pure dogma. Im sure I dont need to tell you which is which.

I feel bad for the real scientists. They are explorers. They have imagination. They ask questions. They take great joy in having their current sphere of knowledge broken down and re-considered. Whereas most people involved in modern science only give answers, with seemingly no real desire to break down what they think they know. Dawkins is a classic example. If he had a para-normal experience, he would bury it deep and discuss it with no one. He has no sense of exploration. Hes on par with religious fanatics.

This is the big contradiction for me: On the one hand modern science says the universe is of infinite size and possibility. An obscene amount of life supporting systems exist out there. Im sure Dawkins would agree. So, how can anybody claim with any certainty that the para-normal doesn't exist?




... anyway... Bones? Bell end of the highest degree.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> Saw something on itunes today which grind my gears it did.
> 
> That wankers ( Dawkins ) "god delusion" piece of shit book is in the science & nature genre. And yet Sheldrakes "the science delusion" is in the religion & spirituality section.
> 
> ...


Funkin scientists eh? Rogan had a famous esteemed scientist on his podcast last week who specialises in ageing and studying reducing the effects of ageing. When Rogans asks him about the effect of diet and what you put into your body has any effect on this ageing process, which is directly related to how healthy you are, the scientist responds that he doesn't have enough knowledge or study in this area of nutrition, but then in the same breath says it does not have an effect. 
Ironically I was dating a scientist last week, (not any more :laugh who totally refuted benefits of an alkaline diet, green juice, all of that stuff reducing the inflammatory levels in your body. Her reasoning? Because there are not studies on it. 
All the scientists can fu** off for a while if you ask me.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I always kind of gave you the benefit of the doubt Rep but anti-vaccine people are straight up the stupidest people on the planet.


----------



## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

Killz said:


> I'll help you out here. Everything I've highlighted in bold. Jones's fault. :thumbsup:
> 
> I don't see any way you can defend Jones in this scenario. Saying the DUI was worse is ridiculous, just because he got caught.
> 
> ...


Wait, how am I defending Jones? I keep saying how he's unintelligent, and we're comparing his two incidents as to which is worse. Me saying that his drunk-driving incident was worse isn't defending him at all, lol. I'm just saying that I can't conclude 100% what happened in this one, and I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that he was sober driving, and bolted because he ran a red light, got into an accident, had weed in the backseat, and didn't know what to do. IF he was high or drunk then obviously this one is worse. But we know for a fact he was drunk the first time and crashed into a pole, which means he was so drunk and reckless that he crashed himself.

Also, I think someone said Nick Diaz is smart. Didn't he say somewhat recently how he was pretty much broke? If so (and I might be getting my facts wrong), that doesn't sound like someone who is smart, given the money that he has presumably made.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Maybe because they've spent lots of time researching into what SHITE goes into these vaccines and care immensely about their child's health.


Can't agree with you on that one i'm afraid. 


Anyway, lets get this back on topic.


----------



## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

oordeel said:


> There is a reason why certain fields require years and years of study and education. Reading an article or a blog does not make you an expert. Yet people are very opinionated and pass off said opinion as fact. I would encourage you to do your own fact checking.
> Instead of reading someone's blog or hearing a story from a friend who heard it from his cousin's uncle's neighbor's dog, go read the actual peer reviewed papers, look at the work that was done in order to get the results. You have to understand the scientific process and how conclusions are drawn from the results of those processes. Don't just believe everything you read/hear (especially on the internet).
> 
> Since this is an MMA forum, I'm going to excuse myself from replying on this topic in this thread any further.


I believe from direct experience - not someone else's authority.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> I believe from direct experience.


Reptilian, which country are you in if you don't mind me asking?


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Killz said:


> Reptilian, which country are you in if you don't mind me asking?


UK, unfortunately.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I'm complete aware of this. I got my BCG where they inject you with the virus. Your body is supposed to react to the virus in a certain way (that lump which every cnt loves to punch) and then they give you the vaccine for it. If your reaction is irregular, then other things need to be done (I'm guessing alternative treatments).
> 
> I don't have meningitis, so you're acting like they gave me it or some shit.
> 
> Anyways, as everyone's saying. This isn't the thread for it. *If you guys want to harm your kids, you can brag about it in different threads.*


Ridiculously ignorant statement to make. Don't think you know anything about parenting.


----------



## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Ok guys, back on topic now please.

If you want to discuss vaccinations further, start a new thread for it.


----------



## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

Killz said:


> Ok guys, back on topic now please.
> 
> If you want to discuss vaccinations further, start a new thread for it.


Please do, as I'm not finished with my coffee.


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Killz said:


> Ok guys, back on topic now please.
> 
> If you want to discuss vaccinations further, start a new thread for it.


Great debate topic so I made a thread for it in the lounge:

http://www.mmaforum.com/lounge/202665-vaccination-thread.html

Keep er goin!


----------



## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

I'll just leave this here:


----------



## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> As expected, complete over intellectualization on a very simple matter from a scientism supporter.
> 
> You want me to prove to you free will exists? You prove it to yourself every single day, there's no rigid analytical science involved.
> 
> ...


You think that _that_ is enough to call one of the big philosophical problems which has been puzzling lots of very smart people through the ages "simple" and justifiably call some of our sharpest minds today as having no intelligence..???

Off-thread rant:


There are lots of reasons for treating people as free of choice. As humans we are hard-wired to think that "I, you, he, she" thinks and make decisions - not that our brains do it. Even granted that we are born into this illusion of freedom, our social interactions still depend on it. We cannot function properly as humans without it and it's hard to imagine how a society could work without it. As humans we need justice or "revenge" if we are wronged. Victims need it to feel better which definitely counts as reason for using it. 

But if we really look hard at it - can there really be such a thing as true freedom? There are tons and tons of evidence which shows how changes to our brains through injury, drugs or sickness affect our thoughts, feelings and actions. A famous example is the man who had the frontal part of his brain damaged from a metal rod penetrating his skull. Before the accident he was a responsible family man but afterwards he began behaving like an ass, gambling and boozing away and stopped taking care of his family. Now we know that the frontal part of the brain govern much of our instinct control, and with that control damaged he just became a jerk. But your view means that it just so happened that he freely made those very uncharacteristic choices after the accident and wasn't caused by the changes to his brain. How is that reasonable? Mountains of evidence suggests that the mind is a product of the works of the central nervous system even though we don't understand how it works. But the point here is no one chooses how it's made up. 

You say that we are free because we can choose. And how can we choose? Because we are free? It doesn't prove or advance anything but going in circles. 

Maybe true moral responsibility is dependent on the illusion of freedom but "good/bad" is not and may be what "right/wrong" essentially is about.

Also, words like "scientism" or "over intellectualization" doesn't win you anything by themselves. Only arguing the actual case does. About Sheldrake from your link I'm only gonna say that the notion of scientific dogmas is nothing new or groundbreaking and was essentially described by Thomas Kuhn in _The Structure of Scientific Revolutions_ (1962). The rest is half-baked hypotheses-making. It's nothing fascinating about forming hypotheses and until he develops fully fleshed theories which survives scientific scrutiny it's just speculative musings. Yawn.

Hopefully this will at least remind you to be more humble when going on about other people's intelligence in the future.


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## Warning (Nov 18, 2009)

No freewill, vaccines are bad. Just crazy talk.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Warning said:


> No freewill, vaccines are bad. Just crazy talk.


Warning: No freewill, vaccines are bad. Just crazy talk.


^This entire sentence looks like a headline from infowars lmao.


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## Warning (Nov 18, 2009)

Not sure what infowars is. Got most my education from school and living in reality.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

It doesn't matter what Infowars is, there is some truth told there and some of it is nonsense but everybody's response is always the close minded brainwashed answer. Who cares what it is, how about considering some of the ideas yourself so you can start to gauge truth from illusion. 

Enough of the melodramatic rhetorical responses.


ReptilianSlayer is the only smart one among you. He isn't perfect but the rest of you are insanse.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Nah this is 2015. You have to get them off of credible sources off the internet.

Like how people exaggerate shit:- Jon Jones was in a car crash. Jon Jones was in a hit and run. Jon Jones was on drugs and in a hit and run. Jon Jones injured a woman while on drugs in a hit and run. Jon Jones injured a pregnant woman while on drugs in a hit and run.




Actually wait, that's a bad example.

"Enough of the melodramatic emotional moronic responses" is my new favourite sentence. It's right up there with "all white people are racist".


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## Warning (Nov 18, 2009)

Jon had the freewill to be a crack head. Probably due to childhood illness causing brain damage. Caused by his parents not having him vaccinated


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Warning said:


> Jon had the freewill to be a crack head. Probably due to childhood illness causing brain damage. Caused by his parents not having him vaccinated


I think he had a steak once as well. His clogged arteries are probably why he didn't have the mobility to control the car.

Although if that's the case, they couldn't have replaced him with a worse guy. Daniel Cormier's arteries need some Cillit Bang or some shit.


----------



## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Let's play a game.

Next person to mention anything in this thread not related to the OP gets infracted.

You've had ample warnings.


----------



## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

Killz said:


> Let's play a game.
> 
> Next person to mention anything in this thread not related to the OP gets infracted.
> 
> You've had ample warnings.


Heh, the MMAForum version of Saw 

Uh oh. :eek02:


----------



## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

The Lone Wolf said:


> Heh, the MMAForum version of Saw
> 
> Uh oh. :eek02:


Banhammer!


----------



## LizaG (May 12, 2008)




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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Warning said:


> Jon had the freewill to be a crack head. Probably due to childhood illness causing brain damage. Caused by his parents not having him vaccinated


His brothers turned out well....two Super Bowl Champs. Jones is a pyschopath, mentally he's not there, his DUI, cocaine and now hit and run episodes combined with his behavior in general are clear proof that this guy, mentally is sick. Rashad and DC were dead on the money about him.

I'm rooting for Rumble, DC has entered Benson territory in that I just absolutely despise him. I don't know if Rumble can stop the takedown but if he lands he can put anyone out cold.

Weidman/Belfort should be the main event btw, Weidman is the only one out of the four with a belt.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

C'mon y'all. Jones is not a psychopath. or any other kindopath. 

He's a dumbass kid. He does stupid things. His stupid things are better funded and more publicized than most but it's standard dumb kid stuff. If you don't know someone who did similar things at a similar age and survived to turn out ok .... then just wait, and you will.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

oldfan said:


> C'mon y'all. Jones is not a psychopath. or any other kindopath.
> 
> He's a dumbass kid. He does stupid things. His stupid things are better funded and more publicized than most but it's standard dumb kid stuff. If you don't know someone who did similar things at a similar age and survived to turn out ok .... then just wait, and you will.


I'm 22, I'm a dumbass kid.

Jones is like 27, he's an adult, he gets into brawls at press conferences, does cocaine a month before the biggest fight of his life, gets into hit and runs and doesn't even check on the person he hit, instead he runs back to get his money, and was probably under the influence of drugs considering they found weed and a pipe in the car.

A car which was a rental in the state he lives in, which means he was probably coming back from buying drugs or on the way to buy drugs. This is not a mentally stable man.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

LL said:


> I'm 22, I'm a dumbass kid.
> 
> Jones is like 27, he's an adult, he gets into brawls at press conferences, does cocaine a month before the biggest fight of his life, gets into hit and runs and doesn't even check on the person he hit, instead he runs back to get his money, and was probably under the influence of drugs considering they found weed and a pipe in the car.
> 
> A car which was a rental in the state he lives in, which means he was probably coming back from buying drugs or on the way to buy drugs. This is not a mentally stable man.


Calling someone a psychopath for taking cocaine, getting into a brawl at a press conference for a fighting sport is just absurd.

The hit-and-run, whilst it was completely the wrong and immoral thing for Jones to do, still does not indicate that he's anything close to being a psychopath. Again, whilst is was wrong, he fled the scene most likely because he had drugs in his system and didn't want to get caught for that, I read in a report, he also was aware there were plenty of people accommodating the woman he crashed into, so he didn't leave her on her own injured and just get away.

Again, I'm not excusing Jon's behaviour in this incident - it was bad, very bad - and he's lucky it wasn't much worse. But to cry out psychopath? No.

Someone like Chael Sonnen is more likely to fall under the psychopath category than Jon Jones.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

LL said:


> I'm 22, I'm a dumbass kid.
> 
> Jones is like 27, he's an adult, he gets into brawls at press conferences, does cocaine a month before the biggest fight of his life, gets into hit and runs and doesn't even check on the person he hit, instead he runs back to get his money, and was probably under the influence of drugs considering they found weed and a pipe in the car.
> 
> A car which was a rental in the state he lives in, which means he was probably coming back from buying drugs or on the way to buy drugs. This is *not a mentally stable man*.



OK you have a point that he's getting old for this but it takes some of us a long time to grow up.

Not stable is a long way from psychopath.


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

Since Jon said he was the guy who snitched stoners, I'm guessing he just wasn't able to the stuff he's doing when he was younger. We probably all know that quiet kid in class, who didn't do no wrong while all other classmates were drinking, partying and doing crazy shit. After school he smells freedom and starts doing the shit others already grew out of. I bet Jones is the something similar - didn't do much at school, after that training, fighting, spending time with family etc. And now when he has the money, fame the guy starts doing crazy shit.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

Leed said:


> Since Jon said he was the guy who snitched stoners, I'm guessing he just wasn't able to the stuff he's doing when he was younger. We probably all know that quiet kid in class, who didn't do no wrong while all other classmates were drinking, partying and doing crazy shit. After school he smells freedom and starts doing the shit others already grew out of. I bet Jones is the something similar - didn't do much at school, after that training, fighting, spending time with family etc. And now when he has the money, fame the guy starts doing crazy shit.


Jones is the Justin Bieber of the MMA community.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Everyone relax, he's just a kid.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

oldfan said:


> OK you have a point that he's getting old for this but it takes some of us a long time to grow up.
> 
> Not stable is a long way from psychopath.


I don't think the latest DSM even uses the label "psychopath" anymore.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

HexRei said:


> I don't think the latest DSM even uses the label "psychopath" anymore.


Id say most fighters have some level of psychopathy.

You can be a psychopath and never commit a crime.. 

A lot of the most successful people in the world have some degree of these traits and would be considered candidates for antisocial personality disorder, its a spectrum.



> Society has conspired with Hollywood to put two seemingly-sexy psychology terms into our collective consciousness — psychopath and sociopath. Psychopath and sociopath are pop psychology terms for what psychiatry calls an antisocial personality disorder. Today, these two terms are not really well-defined in the psychology research literature.
> 
> Nonetheless, there are some general differences between these two types of personality types, which we’ll talk about in this article.
> 
> ...


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Every second cnt you meet thinks they're a psychopath.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Ok, Jon Jones might be a sociapath but I seriously doubt he's a psychopath.


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## King Daisuke (Mar 25, 2013)

I firmly believe that the problem with Jones is that he's always had the easy way out when he's ****ed up. He got caught doing cocaine, what was his punishment? He had to say "Boy, I've really done some stupid things, haven't I?" At a press conference, with a ******* smirk on his face. And only because his fans brought it up.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

At the end of the day all it boils down to is Jones went out, got himself in no fit state to drive, drove anyway, and a poor pregnant woman faced the consequence of Jones's actions, and potentially many more others could have too.

He just needs to be mature and adult, and own up to his poor decision-making and learn from it.


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## Hexabob69 (Nov 8, 2008)

CupCake said:


> At the end of the day all it boils down to is Jones went out, got himself in no fit state to drive, drove anyway, and a poor pregnant woman faced the consequence of Jones's actions, and potentially many more others could have too.
> 
> He just needs to be mature and adult, and own up to his poor decision-making and learn from it.


 I have said he was a sociopath so many times, but it was unheard. I do not even think that a stint in prison will help hi malady; if anything it will only make it worse. 

To the joker that wants to speak on the shootings; as a child I learned to respect police officers, or at least the uniform. At the end of the day if your ass stays in the car and does as you are told, when you are told; you can argue you case in court. Running like a dumba$$ or reaching for a weapon is just stupid!!! My years of training in the military have taught me that there are no warning shots. There are levels of escalation but ultimately if weapon is drawn we are taught shoot 2 center mass.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

I do not respect police simply because of who they serve. The police aren't psychos on their own most of the time, there's s hierarchy of ****ed up psychopaths.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Ok, let me lay a few facts out there in light of your opinion of police. They go out there to maintain order on the streets to keep you, me and all those you and I love. Without the men in blue there would be anarchy instead of order.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Hexabob69 said:


> I have said he was a sociopath so many times, but it was unheard. I do not even think that a stint in prison will help hi malady; if anything it will only make it worse.
> 
> To the joker that wants to speak on the shootings; as a child I learned to respect police officers, or at least the uniform. At the end of the day if your ass stays in the car and does as you are told, when you are told; you can argue you case in court. Running like a dumba$$ or reaching for a weapon is just stupid!!! My years of training in the military have taught me that there are no warning shots. There are levels of escalation but ultimately if weapon is drawn we are taught shoot 2 center mass.


Why would an officer need to fire a warning shot at non-violent suspect fleeing? Why should a person expect to be shot just because they get out of their car? Many first-world nations don't seem to have this problem of everyone getting shot all the time.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

HexRei said:


> *Why would an officer need to fire a warning shot at non-violent suspect fleeing?* Why should a person expect to be shot just because they get out of their car? Many first-world nations don't seem to have this problem of everyone getting shot all the time.


What if the officer was the man in your AV and he was convinced Jones was a replicant after watching his fights?


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> What if the officer was the man in your AV and he was convinced Jones was a replicant after watching his fights?


Well, the film is actually about Deckard's multi-tiered discovery of the wrongness of doing that sort of thing  So even though Jones is obviously an engineered being, we really just have to chase him to the roof of a building where he will make a revelatory speech after kicking our asses then die and we can all learn a valuable lesson.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Now the scales have fallen from my eyes. It's so clear! This is all a ploy to get Anderson Silva out of the limelight after the failed drug test! What a loyal disciple is Jones! Genius!


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

kantowrestler said:


> Ok, let me lay a few facts out there in light of your opinion of police. They go out there to maintain order on the streets to keep you, me and all those you and I love. Without the men in blue there would be anarchy instead of order.


>Keep you and your family safe
>Execute more American's than ISIS
>Terrified of ISIS and not the police

I wonder if we did a survey how many people would feel safe or paranoid when they see a police car.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> >Keep you and your family safe
> >Execute more American's than ISIS
> >Terrified of ISIS and not the police
> 
> I wonder if we did a survey how many people would feel safe or paranoid when they see a police car.


I'm so paranoid when I see a police car I have almost driven off the road.


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## MK. (Dec 16, 2012)

The only annoying thing about this whole situation is that i won't get to see his ass kicked while he was in his prime.

He will probably come back in 2 years time, all cocaine'd up and make a mockery of himself even more.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I debated with someone once about their hatred of the cops. I asked if they were robbed, what would they do. They said they'd track the guy down. I said what if they couldn't. They assured me they could.

The internet is full of these Liam Neeson ass mahfukaz.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I debated with someone once about their hatred of the cops. I asked if they were robbed, what would they do. They said they'd track the guy down. I said what if they couldn't. They assured me they could.
> 
> The internet is full of these Liam Neeson ass mahfukaz.


There are private security firms and private detectives that exist based on voluntary co-operation rather than force y'know. (i.e - police)

Shock horror, and wait for this one......there are actually non-government built roads too.

Can you imagine that, roads being built without government coercion. Policing and detectives without government coercion. How can such a thing be possible?!


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

I was absolutely shocked that so much police corruption and brutality was going on in my own province. Shocked and disgusted.

If you decide to watch you may want to skip some of the first bit.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

^^^^ LOL, I should have followed your advice, but instead, I went 10 minutes into it and I am not law enforcement or fan of violence either, but I already wanted to see that annoying prick with the megaphone cuffed and spanked, lol, what a waste he is. That guy is providing no service to people, just stirring the pot and deliberately provoking just awaiting for the mess he is dying to record for his personal reasons.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> There are private security firms and private detectives that exist based on voluntary co-operation rather than force y'know. (i.e - police)
> 
> Shock horror, and wait for this one......there are actually non-government built roads too.
> 
> Can you imagine that, roads being built without government coercion. Policing and detectives without government coercion. How can such a thing be possible?!


Private firms are contractors, which would mean your authority goes to the highest bidder.

Sounds great.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> ^^^^ LOL, I should have followed your advice, but instead, I went 10 minutes into it and I am not law enforcement or fan of violence either, but I already wanted to see that annoying prick with the megaphone cuffed and spanked, lol, what a waste he is. That guy is providing no service to people, just stirring the pot and deliberately provoking just awaiting for the mess he is dying to record for his personal reasons.


Ya the guy with the megaphone was an idiot. I skipped almost all of the parts he was in. To me the most interesting parts were the raw undeniable footage that depicts police brutality. Hard to discredit that stuff no matter how annoying some of the protesters are.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Ape City said:


> I was absolutely shocked that so much police corruption and brutality was going on in my own province. Shocked and disgusted.
> 
> If you decide to watch you may want to skip some of the first bit.


Power corrupts.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

How exactly did we get here from Jon Jones getting striped of the title?


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

kantowrestler said:


> How exactly did we get here from Jon Jones getting striped of the title?


Our social liberties are being stripped just like Jones' championship! 

It really has gotten a bit off topic eh? Back to Jones I guess!

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Private firms are contractors, which would mean your authority goes to the highest bidder.
> 
> Sounds great.


Voluntary coperation>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Forced coercion. 

No policeman/woman will ever be getting my tax payers money, I can guarantee you that.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Voluntary coperation>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Forced coercion.
> 
> No policeman/woman will ever be getting my tax payers money, I can guarantee you that.


*AAAAAAAAAAAAAAND...

BACK ON TOPIC THANKS.*


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I'd still like to know how we got off that far off topic in the first place.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> I'd still like to know how we got off that far off topic in the first place.


Well lets discuss it and go back off topic... oh wait.


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