# Men who would have rocked the mma world



## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

In this thread discuss guys who you think would have done well in mma but for one reason or another never got the chance to train for it and compete. 

My vote go to andy hug. this man had faster more powerful kicks than any one i have ever seen before. I think many fighters would have fallen to his ax kick. Unfortunately andy died of leukemia at age 35. 

the material speaks for itself 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb6BbwKiPHQ

2:40 shows you just how fast and devastating his ax kick was 

Rip hug


----------



## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Easy pick for me would have been Kurt Angle.

Olympic gold medal winning wrestler he could have done great if not for his neck and drug issues.


----------



## KillingRoad89 (Jul 28, 2009)

a prime mike tyson. not a fat drunk mike tyson.


----------



## King JLB (Apr 28, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> In this thread discuss guys who you think would have done well in mma but for one reason or another never got the chance to train for it and compete.
> 
> My vote go to andy hug. this man had faster more powerful kicks than any one i have ever seen before. I think many fighters would have fallen to his ax kick. Unfortunately andy died of leukemia at age 35.
> 
> ...


If he could learn some TDD as well as Mirko did, then he could have had a similar mma legacy. RIP

Kurt Angle, spot on. If it weren't for the broken neck and the massive drug abuse, he could have gone far in mma 6 years ago.


----------



## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

King JLB said:


> If he could learn some TDD as well as Mirko did, then he could have had a similar mma legacy. RIP
> 
> Kurt Angle, spot on. If it weren't for the broken neck and the massive drug abuse, he could have gone far in mma 6 years ago.


This and on the topic of WWE wrestlers who "could" have made it or could possibly make the transition, Jack Swagger and Shelton Benjamin are well decorated wrestlers and incredible athletes.


----------



## evilappendix (Jan 4, 2007)

I'll say Rocky Marciano. His chin was unquestionable as was his knock out power. He wrestled in high school as well so he potentially could defend the shot. At 185 he would have put heads in the stands with 4oz gloves on. Alas, he'll have to settle for being the only unbeaten hw champion in boxing history...


----------



## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

americanfighter said:


> In this thread discuss guys who you think would have done well in mma but for one reason or another never got the chance to train for it and compete.
> 
> My vote go to andy hug. this man had faster more powerful kicks than any one i have ever seen before. I think many fighters would have fallen to his ax kick. Unfortunately andy died of leukemia at age 35.
> 
> ...


Big 2nd on Andy Hug.

Rocky Marciano was a bull, as in he liked to plant his weight and swing for the fences, IIRC. So, he would have been a beast in MMA if he had good TDD.


----------



## Couchwarrior (Jul 13, 2007)

Aleksandr Karelin


----------



## Uchaaa (Apr 22, 2007)

swpthleg said:


> So, he would have been a beast in MMA if he had good TDD.


every elite strikers would be a beast in mma with good tdd.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Chuck Norris, not joking either, Norris is extremely accomplished in kickboxing, Karate and Tae Kwon Do and was also one of the first Americans to begin training in BJJ with the Gracie's even before UFC 1.


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Yeah Chuck Norris was a pretty accomplished fighter albeit mainly in karate. Jean Claude Van Damme had a pretty impressive fighting career as well until he realized how much money he could make as a movie star.


----------



## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

420atalon said:


> Yeah Chuck Norris was a pretty accomplished fighter albeit mainly in karate. Jean Claude Van Damme had a pretty impressive fighting career as well until he realized how much money he could make as a movie star.


I thought JCVD had a fair amount of accolades in legitimate and recognized competition, but I never dared mention it on here, in case 100 people went crazy, "HE JUST BEAT A FEW CANS IN AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL GYM!! YOU'RE A N00B!!!"


----------



## Tyson2011 (Jan 12, 2009)

bruce lee, just so we could settle the arguments of whether or not he could survive in the ufc


----------



## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

Kurt Angle.
When he and Brock were still in the WWE, they had a amatuer-wrestling match, or something like that. Well, they say, Angle out-wrestled him (like every other guy in the roster). And, ofcourse, he won an olympic gold medal with a broken neck. :thumb02: I'm sure he coulde have done very well in MMA.


----------



## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

How about Dwight Howard? He is 6'11 265 pounds and more athletic than any HW fighter in MMA right now. I think if he trained he would be awesome. But definetly makes more money right now in the NBA than he ever would in MMA so he made the right choice.


----------



## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Couchwarrior said:


> Aleksandr Karelin


I surfed through to make sure someone had said this already.

As far as I'm concerned, Karelin is the greatest amateur athlete in the history of combat sports. The numbers from his career are ridiculous:


6'4, 285 lbs
Three Olympic Gold Medals
Nine World Championships
13 Years without a Loss
Six Years without giving up a point
Bar none the greatest Greco Roman wrestler of all time
There's no athlete I'd rather see in MMA, period. When you look at the quality of solid Greco-Roman wrestlers that have appeared in MMA (Randy Couture, Matt Lindland, Dan Henderson, Joe Warren, etc.), it'd be awesome to see the greatest of all time compete.

There are a lot of great athletes in the history of modern sports, but Karelin is *by far* one of the most interesting in terms of what he could do in MMA.

Bruce Lee would be interesting (assuming he fought in his own division). Mike Tyson would be interesting if he could stay standing for more than ten seconds. Ray Lewis or one of the great punishers from the NFL would be exciting for the same reason Lesnar is exciting.

But, when it comes to a guy who would change the sport, Karelin is the kind of athlete with the skills and the raw power to just drop jaws and do things that no one else can.


----------



## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

Yes Chuck Norris of course Toxic, but bringing god into the discussion ruins it for all the others. I agree Kurt Angle was probably the greatest wrestler ever and had incredible work ethic and desire, I read his book, recommend it.


----------



## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

Wow, agree with Karelin too, all the super-great wrestlers I think would do well. Even the phony wrestlers like Big Show and Andre the Giant would be interesting if they started young with such incredible size.


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

Chuck Norris was a black belt in TKD and a brown belt in Judo by the end of the sixties. So yeah, he would be pretty good in MMA.


----------



## Ground'N'Pound5 (Aug 7, 2009)

get a Top Class basketball player and teach him to how to fight

football players seem to be the "physical" choice but in fact basketball players would do really well in fighting

they have great cardio, strength, and speed so teaching them how to fight in a mma fight would be excellent!

take roy jones jr, i know hes a boxer and all but he actually excelled in basketball, baseball, and football when he was in highschool/college (he had the choice to choose anyone of the sports to play pro in) and we all know roy jones jr is a really good fighter


----------



## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

Ground'N'Pound5 said:


> get a Top Class basketball player and teach him to how to fight
> 
> football players seem to be the "physical" choice but in fact basketball players would do really well in fighting
> 
> ...


as I mentioned Dwight Howard would probably be awesome at HW being 6'11 265lbs


----------



## cdnbaron (Jan 17, 2007)

Karelin was mentioned already, so I'll go with the other great amateur wrestler yet to be mentioned, in Dan Gable.

I wonder if he could take BJ down at 155?


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Since i'm a wrestling fan, i have to go with Kurt Angle as well. His mat skills and work ethics are top notch, and these type of people usually succeed.


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

swpthleg said:


> I thought JCVD had a fair amount of accolades in legitimate and recognized competition, but I never dared mention it on here, in case 100 people went crazy, "HE JUST BEAT A FEW CANS IN AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL GYM!! YOU'RE A N00B!!!"


What I do know about jean claude van damme is that he has 19 pro fights, 11 wins by KO 7 wins by tko and 1 decision loss. Apparently he was at one point a legitimate bad ass. 

But I heard he's fighting a guy who won a gold metal in olympic boxing. So unless he recently developed a good ground game and take down, I dunno how the 49 year old JCVD is going to fare.


----------



## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Yha know I was reading allthe wrestling names an one just hit me Dan gable. 

118-1 in his colegate wrestling career 2ncaa championships record 24 straight pins record 99 wins in a row.

At the 1972 olympics he won ahold metal without surendering a single point to any of his 6 opponets
coached the 1984 USA Olympic wrestling team to 7 gold metals
he was the greatest of all time.

Karelin's nickname was actualy "the Russian Dan gable"


----------



## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

americanfighter said:


> Karelin's nickname was actualy "the Russian Dan gable"


In fairness to Karelin, his career on the international circuit was much more impressive than Gable's.

Also, I tend to think that Greco-Roman has more applicability in MMA than Freestyle.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Lennox Lewis wrestled in high school phenomenal boxer who has said if mma had been popular he would have went into it instead of boxing. Lennox also would have been a big solid HW especially in the early days when he would have been competing.


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

IronMan said:


> In fairness to Karelin, his career on the international circuit was much more impressive than Gable's.
> 
> Also, *I tend to think that Greco-Roman has more applicability in MMA than Freestyle*.


In some aspects I understand, lot's of clinching and upper body control are part of both MMA and Greco. But, generally I disagree, so could you elaborate?


----------



## G0K0S (Dec 27, 2008)

Stephen Neal.


----------



## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

IronMan said:


> In fairness to Karelin, his career on the international circuit was much more impressive than Gable's.
> 
> Also, I tend to think that Greco-Roman has more applicability in MMA than Freestyle.


Dan was also international and defeated many Russians one of which was undefeated. The Russians were so impressed with him that they gave him a wolf fur coat i think after he won a Match with Russian pavel pinigan. and a world championship. These were the years that the Russians were dominate so he wrestled the best internationaly and beat just about all of them.

Also I find freestyle wrestling to be just as or more efective. Dominating fighters like matt Hughes and Gsp use it. Although Greco is great in the clinch freestyle has great takedowns and a dominance on the ground.


----------



## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

americanfighter said:


> Dan was also international and defeated many Russians one of which was undefeated. The Russians were so impressed with him that they gave him a wolf fur coat i think after he won a Russian tounament. These were the years that the Russians were dominate so he wrestled the best internationaly and beat them all.


That's some serious exaggeration, and not statistically accurate.

Gable had a number of losses on the circuit between 1968 and 1972, when he won his Olympic gold medal. Of course, his Olympic performance was impressive. Not giving up a point is an amazing task. But Karelin did it, too, in 1996.

Even setting aside Gable's collegiate record, where he lost a handful of matches including an NCAA finals match in 1970, he didn't put up the numbers that Karelin did.

Gable had a number of losses on his international record, which can't be said of Karelin.

I'm a huge fan of Dan Gable. The guy had a great career and is probably the greatest American ever to step on the mat. His international success makes him better than the great NCAA folkstyle wrestlers like Chael Sanderson, but comparing him to a guy like Karelin, who competed strictly on the international circuit and was never even challenged during the peak of his career, is not reasonable.



Freelancer said:


> In some aspects I understand, lot's of clinching and upper body control are part of both MMA and Greco. But, generally I disagree, so could you elaborate?



Well, from a purely statistical standpoint, there are a number of very well established Greco-Roman wrestlers in the top tier of MMA. There's also a solid number of folkstyle wrestlers that come out of the NCAA scene. The number of successful wrestlers in freestyle wrestling who turn to MMA and find success is much lower.

I think there's a good reason for that in terms of technique.

It's much more practical to use upper body control to establish major throws then to try and separate the position to look for a leg.

Most Greco-Roman wrestlers develop a lot of power in the clinch and no how to either twist their opponent down to the mat for a takedown or to pin their opponent against the cage. Freestyle wrestlers usually have to look for the legs to be effective in grappling competition and, if that's true in MMA, it makes working from the clinch very difficult.

Additionally, there's a lot of upper-body power built up by Greco-Roman wrestlers that helps with controlling their opponent in the clinch, but also in the guard position. When you see someone like Randy Couture use good ground control, it is often a product of his wrestling background more than cross-training.

Obviously, this is the short version, and I can get into specific techniques, but this is really the easiest way to explain it.

Greco-Roman wrestling is better for MMA than Judo because the athletes are already used to competing without the gi, but it's good for all of the same reasons Judo should be good in MMA. It has the ability to control the position of the fight from the clinch and, additionally, some basis for what to do when the fight hits the mat.


----------



## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

xeberus said:


> What I do know about jean claude van damme is that he has 19 pro fights, 11 wins by KO 7 wins by tko and 1 decision loss. Apparently he was at one point a legitimate bad ass.
> 
> But I heard he's fighting a guy who won a gold metal in olympic boxing. So unless he recently developed a good ground game and take down, I dunno how the 49 year old JCVD is going to fare.


I'm so relieved re: the legitimacy of his badass status. 

I can see him being a quick learner, like Brock apparently is.


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

IronMan said:


> That's some serious exaggeration, and not statistically accurate.
> 
> Gable had a number of losses on the circuit between 1968 and 1972, when he won his Olympic gold medal. Of course, his Olympic performance was impressive. Not giving up a point is an amazing task. But Karelin did it, too, in 1996.
> 
> ...


Good points, but the major problem for using pure Greco in MMA is the necessity to close the distance and clinch. During that they are much more vulnerable against strikes, compared to freestyle guys going low for a single or double.


----------



## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...I think Ernesto Hoost would rock the MMA boat...


----------



## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Freelancer said:


> Good points, but the major problem for using pure Greco in MMA is the necessity to close the distance and clinch. During that they are much more vulnerable against strikes, compared to freestyle guys going low for a single or double.


I'm not entirely sure that's true.

It's much easier to close the distance for the clinch than it is to shoot in, especially with some basic boxing.

Dropping the head for a shot is one of the most dangerous ways to try and get the fight to the ground. Ask Ralph Gracie. Or Masakazu Imanari.


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

IronMan said:


> I'm not entirely sure that's true.
> 
> It's much easier to close the distance for the clinch than it is to shoot in, especially with some basic boxing.
> 
> Dropping the head for a shot is one of the most dangerous ways to try and get the fight to the ground. Ask Ralph Gracie. Or Masakazu Imanari.


Head-dropping is a problem in Japan, hardly in the ufc.
Banning knees to the head of a downed opponent is a stress reducing factor for a lot of freestyle guys in the UFC, since they don't have to worry about getting nailed in the head.


----------



## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Freelancer said:


> Head-dropping is a problem in Japan, hardly in the ufc.
> Banning knees to the head of a downed opponent is a stress reducing factor for a lot of freestyle guys in the UFC, since they don't have to worry about getting nailed in the head.


Sure, but in the UFC, you still see fewer shots over the years. That has a lot to do with guys realizing quickly that they can't cover the same amount of distance when they have to stay out of range of their opponent's jab.

We've seen it in a number of high profile fights in the UFC, where good wrestlers with good shooting skills get outmatched by strikers who effectively utilize counters.

Mark Coleman had that happen to him a number of times, but the best example in a single fight is Kevin Randleman vs. Chuck Liddell. It's clear almost immediately that shooting isn't as effective in bouts where striking has to be taken into consideration.


----------



## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

IronMan said:


> Sure, but in the UFC, you still see fewer shots over the years. That has a lot to do with guys realizing quickly that they can't cover the same amount of distance when they have to stay out of range of their opponent's jab.
> 
> We've seen it in a number of high profile fights in the UFC, where good wrestlers with good shooting skills get outmatched by strikers who effectively utilize counters.
> 
> Mark Coleman had that happen to him a number of times, but the best example in a single fight is Kevin Randleman vs. Chuck Liddell. It's clear almost immediately that shooting isn't as effective in bouts where striking has to be taken into consideration.


To tell you the truth I haven't noticed the drop in shooting attempts. It's still the favorite way to close the distance from what I saw. But maybe I wasn't following enough fights to get a full perspective.


----------



## Godzuki (Feb 26, 2007)

420atalon said:


> Yeah Chuck Norris was a pretty accomplished fighter albeit mainly in karate. Jean Claude Van Damme had a pretty impressive fighting career as well until he realized how much money he could make as a movie star.


JCVD is going to compete again. He's taking a K-1 bout latter this year. Who knows, if he does well it isn't inconceivable that he'd try his hand at MMA.


----------

