# Frank Mir: Steroids just aren't necessary



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

http://www.mmamania.com/2009/12/26/1220204/frank-mir-steroids-just-arent



> Props: *CageWriter.com*
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I have a huge issue with this nonsense first look at the picture's side by side the one on the right is a fighter in his prime also excelling with a new strength and conditioning program and new camp and the one on the left is his second fight back after his motorcycle accident I think UFC 61.....

Talk abut trying to sway an opinion.....:thumbsdown:


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## SkanKD00DLE (Dec 27, 2009)

Mir decided to re-dedicate himself to the fight game. I agree with ColdCall its terrible how the writer used those two pictures from so much time apart. Mir has slowly been increasing his muscle mass, and such for some time now. He is just dedicated to being the best. But yes lets look past the hardwork people put in, because of the Josh Barnetts of the MMA world.


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## Seperator88 (Jul 12, 2009)

yea those pictures are ridiculous, im mean CC already stated the obvious, every fighter looks amazing at weigh ins, even Brock looks like he is 2% body fat at weigh ins, and if you ask me, I think that first picture is actually a little horizontally stretched, because I never remember Mir looking that fat.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Its just meant to make you think one thing before you even read the article.....

Where are the writers that commend fighters for breaking themselves in the gym...Frank Mir is on a mission and i think he is more and more determined than every and will succeed....


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Yea to hold these two picture abreast each other is ridiculous! 










This picture is from the UFC 100 weight in, you can match them. I can see how he got there without using Steroids!


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## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

Indeed. a post fight pic vs. weight in pic is just dumb. There is another steroid -topic where someone posted 3 previous weight in pics of Mir and the changes looked pretty legit to me. Now compare the Overeem pics from last 10 years and you'll see what a real steroid abuse looks like.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

People react to steroids differently as well.

I think there's very few people who can get that way by doing GSP-type cardio and dieting hardcore, also dehydrated, and no chemical help.

Mir *may* be one of them. However, the fact that he is even publicly commenting on the issue in such a long-winded manner, makes it a case of he's protesting too much.


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## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

swpthleg said:


> Mir *may* be one of them. However, the fact that he is even publicly commenting on the issue in such a long-winded manner, makes it a case of he's protesting too much.


By your logic there is no way for Mir to "win" here. That interview is taken from some radio broadcast (forgot which one, I just remember someone posting the video to that same interview) where he WAS ASKED about the steroids. 

How suspicious would it look like if he wasn't answering the steroid questions at all or only gave quick "no I don't use them, next question!" -type of answers? Basically he explained his situation pretty well with alot of points to back him up. 

Anyway, not talking about you specificly now, but I hate people who keep whining about steroids on and on with nothing but their own opinion to back up their accusations (did I spell that right?). Mir has been around for a while and has never given anyone a reason to believe that he is cheating, it would be a huge shock to me if he one day got busted on a test.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Diokhan said:


> By your logic there is no way for Mir to "win" here. That interview is taken from some radio broadcast (forgot which one, I just remember someone posting the video to that same interview) where he WAS ASKED about the steroids.
> 
> How suspicious would it look like if he wasn't answering the steroid questions at all or only gave quick "no I don't use them, next question!" -type of answers? Basically he explained his situation pretty well with alot of points to back him up.
> 
> Anyway, not talking about you specificly now, but I hate people who keep whining about steroids on and on with nothing but their own opinion to back up their accusations (did I spell that right?). Mir has been around for a while and has never given anyone a reason to believe that he is cheating, it would be a huge shock to me if he one day got busted on a test.


It's entirely possible to answer loaded questions, which any question about steroids is IMO, in a fast and succinct manner.

You'll also notice that I left room for argument purposely in saying that people react different way to steroids.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

It's Frank Mir. He can't answer anything succinctly especially when the question is about him. 

In my opinion his answer is informative and reasonable. If he were to answer 'I don't do steroids cause its not worth it' as opposed to detailing his recent physical history I wouldn't be any more or less suspect. Also take into consideration the fact that he is a high profile UFC athlete, is more involved with the business side of the UFC, and is also a broadcaster. He's media savvy and aware of the general portrayal of MMA fighters, the fact that he has a detailed answer ready for steroid suspicion is expected.


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## BobbyD (Apr 27, 2008)

Iuanes said:


> It's Frank Mir. He can't answer anything succinctly especially when the question is about him.
> 
> In my opinion his answer is informative and reasonable. If he were to answer 'I don't do steroids cause its not worth it' as opposed to detailing his recent physical history I wouldn't be any more or less suspect. Also take into consideration the fact that he is a high profile UFC athlete, is more involved with the business side of the UFC, and is also a broadcaster. He's media savvy and aware of the general portrayal of MMA fighters, the fact that he has a detailed answer ready for steroid suspicion is expected.


LOL you are right. Mir has never been succinct about anything. I see nothing suspect about his answer.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Steroids won't just make you lean and cut like the difference in those first two pics. Even if he took some, he sure as hell put in a ton of work to tighten up and lose all that body fat and turn it to muscle. Steroids may make you win like lesnar does and just bear hug someone to death, but it takes more skill to win like mir does, with technique. So screw the whole steroid bs, he worked his ass off to get back in shape, point blank.


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## Ruckus (Oct 2, 2009)

Damn, Mir (or Mur) is simply the pure love or pure hate fighter in the UFC. It seems as if there is no middle ground. So the dude made a choice to go with power and size over being lean and speed. Its really that simple. If he did juice, it would have been confirmed by now. 

He is not another Josh Barnett and surely not Overeem (SF HW Champ who hasn't fought in the US in 2 years, HMMMMMM?)The US has far more stringent testing than other areas around the world and especially with all the attention that roids get in all sports, he certainly couldn't get away with it.

He is actually one of the most intelligent fighters, hence the long, articulated response to a question, and that intelligence transcends to his training as well. 

Looking forward to seeing how the new approach works against Carwin.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

swpthleg said:


> People react to steroids differently as well.
> 
> I think there's very few people who can get that way by doing GSP-type cardio and dieting hardcore, also dehydrated, and no chemical help.
> 
> Mir *may* be one of them. However, the fact that he is even publicly commenting on the issue in such a long-winded manner, makes it a case of he's protesting too much.


Mass building and cardio work competely against one another.



box said:


> Steroids won't just make you lean and cut like the difference in those first two pics. Even if he took some, he sure as hell put in a ton of work to tighten up and lose all that body fat and turn it to muscle. Steroids may make you win like lesnar does and just bear hug someone to death, but it takes more skill to win like mir does, with technique. So screw the whole steroid bs, he worked his ass off to get back in shape, point blank.


"Steroids" is a lame name for a vast genre . Being legal designers and banned substances.. Everything in the "steroid" world has differnt effects on a person. Some people may not put on a pound from one substance while others put on 10-30lbs of muscle . Other stuff is used as a cutting agent. Some stuff hardens you while building lean muscle mass. The "supplement" world has no structure everyone is there to make a fast buck. Had some one layed down the law from the get go . Had there been more education for users . Had there been youth coaches who cared wether or not there high school kids where using . 
"Steriods" for the most part would be legal. And very few would be illegal. 

Could Mir prosper from more strength speed agility grip and physical awareness? Who couldnt so the bear hug statement is :confused02:.. 

It boils down to pretty much every fighter is using or has used at some point in time .. Some fighters might use a legal substance currently.


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## gwabblesore (May 2, 2007)

swpthleg said:


> Mir *may* be one of them. However, the fact that he is even publicly commenting on the issue in such a long-winded manner, makes it a case of he's protesting too much.


Pretty sure he was asked the question by an interviewer, and his answer was detailed and articulate as usual (that's what he does for all questions). The whole "he doth protest too much" as an argument for anyone's guilt (in any situation) is just ridiculous anyway.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

gwabblesore said:


> Pretty sure he was asked the question by an interviewer, and his answer was detailed and articulate as usual (that's what he does for all questions). The whole "he doth protest too much" as an argument for anyone's guilt (in any situation) is just ridiculous anyway.


 
I believe the person you quoted mean the same thing you do.....alythough i just woke up, but I'm pretty sure they were trying to state that the detailed long winded answer would make you think he isnt....


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## gwabblesore (May 2, 2007)

coldcall420 said:


> I believe the person you quoted mean the same thing you do.....alythough i just woke up, but I'm pretty sure they were trying to state that the detailed long winded answer would make you think he isnt....


Nope you just woke up lol. She implied that him making such a long and detailed answer was somehow indicative of his guilt, which I find to be absurd.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

gwabblesore said:


> Nope you just woke up lol. She implied that him making such a long and detailed answer was somehow indicative of his guilt, which I find to be absurd.


 
Yawn...I think your right Sweep is a Mir fan so I assumed she meant him going into so much detail is something he wouldnt do if he actually was doing them.....whatever...LOL:thumb02:


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

Yeah, the steroid allegations are ridiculuous, what he said makes sense:

- He cut to 245lb at UFC 100
- Naturally got back up to 260lb (normal body weight)
- Put on additional weight (ie. mainly muscle) in his 8-12 week strength/conditioning program, probably about 15-20lb
- Cut to 264.5lb for weighins at UFC 107

Dunno, makes sense to me.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Iuanes said:


> It's Frank Mir. He can't answer anything succinctly especially when the question is about him.
> 
> In my opinion his answer is informative and reasonable. If he were to answer 'I don't do steroids cause its not worth it' as opposed to detailing his recent physical history I wouldn't be any more or less suspect. Also take into consideration the fact that he is a high profile UFC athlete, is more involved with the business side of the UFC, and is also a broadcaster. He's media savvy and aware of the general portrayal of MMA fighters, the fact that he has a detailed answer ready for steroid suspicion is expected.


I agree 100 % with the above quote, especially the first sentence :thumb02:

In all seriousness though, I doubt Frank's on steriods and he does give a reasonable explaination that's very plausable. Don't like the guy personally, don't hate him either, but respect him as a fighter. I do believe that he used HGH, but that's just opinion


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## Johnni G (Dec 2, 2009)

Amazing pics


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

gwabblesore said:


> Nope you just woke up lol. She implied that him making such a long and detailed answer was somehow indicative of his guilt, which I find to be absurd.


You are entitled to your opinion, and a cookie.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

I really wonder what is the number of professional athletes that do use PED's.

If baseball has showed us anything it could be a lot.

And while I would like to believe that there arent many guys on PED's in MMA, I also know that there are many ways to pass a piss test for anything.

With that said I dont believe Frank is on them. He has always been one of the larger HWs in the UFC. Lately he has looked to get rid of his body fat a muscle up........ I wonder how good his cardio is.......


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

JimmyJames said:


> I really wonder what is the number of professional athletes that do use PED's.
> 
> If baseball has showed us anything it could be a lot.
> 
> ...


They don't even have to cover it up. There are MANY PED's that are only detectable in blood samples. And even that has to be random in order to be properly detected, because they could just cycle it. At the moment it's only a urine sample before and after, any idiot can pass that abysmal test. Especially considering any PED they take will be undetected since they are going to be roiding DURING training.

Mir is juicing, as well as many others in the sport and boxing until they use better testing procedures.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> They don't even have to cover it up. There are MANY PED's that are only detectable in blood samples. And even that has to be random in order to be properly detected, because they could just cycle it. At the moment it's only a urine sample before and after, any idiot can pass that abysmal test. Especially considering any PED they take will be undetected since they are going to be roiding DURING training.
> 
> Mir is juicing, as well as many others in the sport and boxing until they use better testing procedures.


I will take the stance that any fighter is innocent until proven guilty but I have my doubts..........

The state athletic commissions test a fighter during their training camp and once after the fight which leaves a very small time frame to cycle off of any PED. But then again I know there are many ways to mask a PED, use a detox, or synthetic piss. 

It is sad but after the MLB scandal I bet there are a lot of fighters using PED's that the general public doesnt even know about as of yet.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

IMO, Frank isn't on roids. He's a big dude who's always been an athelete and I can't imagine it'd be hard to put on 10-15 pounds of muscle for him...


That being said, NSAC should start random testing using BLOOD SAMPLES, not urine.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

I agree, Frank was always one of the larger HWs in the UFC, now he has finally found a good work ethic. Which is what he lacked earlier in his career.


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## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

I don't know about steroids but with those before and after pictures he could make a fortune for some miracle fat burning snake oil. What happened is I think he was just lazy and Brock showed him what dedication it would take for him to get to the top. Although Mark Phillipi who lives here in Vegas I'm sure would know the latest in steroid technology. Its like the Paqman, he does not want random testing, the UFC does not want it either. There is no more doping in the Olympics or Tour de France or maybe there is, but their testing is so much tougher it would be very hard. If the UFC wanted to leave no doubt then they would have random blood testing like the IOC but like baseball many years ago I don't think they really care if fighters juice as long as they don't get caught (at least the big draws). Sorry for the rant but this issue has many sides.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

JimmyJames said:


> I will take the stance that any fighter is innocent until proven guilty but I have my doubts..........
> 
> *The state athletic commissions test a fighter during their training camp *and once after the fight which leaves a very small time frame to cycle off of any PED. But then again I know there are many ways to mask a PED, use a detox, or synthetic piss.
> 
> It is sad but after the MLB scandal I bet there are a lot of fighters using PED's that the general public doesnt even know about as of yet.


I'm calling BS unless a source is given.
They test before the fight and after.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

machidaisgod said:


> I don't know about steroids but with those before and after pictures he could make a fortune for some miracle fat burning snake oil. What happened is I think he was just lazy and Brock showed him what dedication it would take for him to get to the top. Although Mark Phillipi who lives here in Vegas I'm sure would know the latest in steroid technology. Its like the Paqman, he does not want random testing, the UFC does not want it either. There is no more doping in the Olympics or Tour de France or maybe there is, but their testing is so much tougher it would be very hard. If the UFC wanted to leave no doubt then they would have random blood testing like the IOC but like baseball many years ago I don't think they really care if fighters juice as long as they don't get caught (at least the big draws). Sorry for the rant but this issue has many sides.


The NSAC decides how to test, not the UFC. THe UFC has nothing to do with it really. I really think the reason they don't test blood is because it's FAR more expensive than if they just test urine. I mean, they have home urine tests, but blood has to be taken to a lab and everything. I don't think it has anything ot do with protecting juiced fighters.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

JimmyJames said:


> I really wonder what is the number of professional athletes that do use PED's.
> 
> If baseball has showed us anything it could be a lot.
> 
> And while I would like to believe that there arent many guys on PED's in MMA, I also know that there are many ways to pass a piss test for anything.


The thing is, when everybody is using it, then nobody has an advantage or dissadvantage in a fight same with every other sport out there. It's the same with the cycling sport, in the time when Lance Armstrong and Jan Ullrich had all there success in this Sport, everybody was on dope! But it still makes Lance Armstrong the best bicyclist ever, because not only he was using this stuff also Ullrich and many others!


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## bbfsluva (Oct 18, 2009)

then it really isn't the best athlete who wins, it's the guy or gal with the most talented pharmacist? i have no problem with anyone juicing, i think the ufc should pay for it and make it as safe as possible. then we'll have some ass-kicking cards, won't we? lol. bottom line for me? who gives a shit what any adult puts in their body, just put on a good show.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

I'm all for HGH in sports with one exception, that there would be two levels or two stat books: One for old timers, and one for the new breeds.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

LOL You people need to realize that if the stuff was made legal you would have extreme amount of abuse. WHat happens then? The mma wolrd gets tainted like the WWE and no one lives past 45 because its not as simple as jus pinning and getting big.. It wears on the heart when abused.. FAST muscle wears on the joints . This all leads to living on pain killers which is a sure fire fast death.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

bbfsluva said:


> then it really isn't the best athlete who wins, it's the guy or gal with the most talented pharmacist?


No! In the bicycle sport wich i mentioned every cyclist knew what the best Doping medicine was and to wich doctor they had to go. Nobody had any advantage or dissadvantage because of that and thats why nobody should ever question the unbelivable success Lance had.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> They don't even have to cover it up. There are MANY PED's that are only detectable in blood samples. And even that has to be random in order to be properly detected, because they could just cycle it. At the moment it's only a urine sample before and after, any idiot can pass that abysmal test. Especially considering any PED they take will be undetected since they are going to be roiding DURING training.
> 
> *Mir is juicing,* as well as many others in the sport and boxing until they use better testing procedures.





Roflcopter said:


> *I'm calling BS unless a source is given.*
> They test before the fight and after.


 

Take your own advice, find a source before you make stupid assertions...... Mir isn't juicing dude he is a naturally large man with the right strength and conditioning program, its not hard to pack on weight when you have the right people helping you do it....

Ever hear of Mackie Shilstone(http://www.mackieshilstone.com/index.php?topic=testimonials ) ....he helped Bernard Hopkins move up in weight to fight Antonio Tarver.....but i guess Bernard was on steroids cuz he gained like 15 ponds of mass....

Bernard is a way smaller man than say a Mir and he easily gained that weight, come down to South Florida and spend 6 weeks with me and I can show you how to put 8-12 pounds of pure mass in your legs alone.....:thumbsdown:

Amazing that in one thread you throw a claim out that Mir is on juice and in the same thread call someone out for not having a source.......WOW

Educate yourself before you just post.....


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

OOOOOO SNAP CC with the smack down!!!!!:fight03:


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

coldcall420 said:


> Take your own advice, find a source before you make stupid assertions...... Mir isn't juicing dude he is a naturally large man with the right strength and conditioning program, its not hard to pack on weight when you have the right people helping you do it....
> 
> Ever hear of Mackie Shilstone(http://www.mackieshilstone.com/index.php?topic=testimonials ) ....he helped Bernard Hopkins move up in weight to fight Antonio Tarver.....*but i guess Bernard was on steroids cuz he gained like 15 ponds of mass...*.
> 
> ...



Bernard didn't gain hardly any mass at all. He was always that big, he was much bigger than the middleweights he fought if you knew anything about boxing.


Also, that was the most idiotic argument I've ever heard. He stated a (false) fact as fact.

I stated an opinion. Why the hell would I need a source to speculate.

That's like saying "Junior Dos Santos lost to John Wannamaker in an exhibition match a week ago"
"Source?"

Compared to

"Junior Dos Santos will beat John Wannamaker on Saturday Night"
"lol you told him to cite a source and you didn't even do it ololol"

-_-


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Bernard didn't gain hardly any mass at all. He was always that big, he was much bigger than the middleweights he fought if you knew anything about boxing.


 
LOL....clearly you are not worth correcting....click the link which you obviously didn't do, he talks about it. I have forgotten more about boxing than you'll ever know....

Do me a favor, go find that link that Mir is on steroids then tell me I know nothing...I know MMA and Boxing and have been watching it since I was 11....Im 30.....


FTR....Middleweight is 160....He fought Tarver at 175...thats 15 pounds but if you want to claim he was a big middleweight, why would he feel the need to enlist a guy like Mackie Shilstone if he could put that 15 pounds on easily, or why would he travel to meet with Shilstone to train....

Yeah....

I have heard about you and read about your posts and so far you are living up to your label...

Go get that link that Mir's on juice...we'll wait....:thumbsup:



EDIT: Look up like 3 posts and you will see yourself asking for a source....then making a totally dumb statement and not having a source, it just seems kinda like the pot calling the kettle black, you know you can throw out whatever claims you want, but when your not convinced is BS without a source, i can realize how that may have gone over your head but hopefully that helps you out....

I just wanna see your source that Mir is on steroids....which we both know he is not, the Mackie Shilstone referrence is to simply show that easly an athlete can gain 15-25 pounds with the right training....The difference between you asking for a source and the other poster is you like them stated it, not suggested it....so where is the source....


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

How many people have been caught juicing in the UFC? 4? No one is doing it until they get caught. People were saying A-Rod was on steroids and people would just say you have no proof blabla. Fact is, many UFC fighters are juicing, even people on the inside say this, and Mir is one of them.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

I didn't read any individual posts in this thread, just read the OP.

But I agree with Mir. There are many things you can do to better your skills without using steroids. Not to mention that in the long run they are very harmful to you. It's really a shame to see all the people who still use them, and those same people probably look down upon crack heads. I don't believe there is a difference. Both are drugs, and both can kill you.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Stokes said:


> I didn't read any individual posts in this thread, just read the OP.
> 
> But I agree with Mir. There are many things you can do to better your skills without using steroids. Not to mention that in the long run they are very harmful to you. It's really a shame to see all the people who still use them, and those same people probably look down upon crack heads. I don't believe there is a difference. Both are drugs, and both can kill you.


exactly, at least some people get it. I was getting tired of the absurd "hurr ... roids shud be legal, ders nuthin wrong with em, just bad publicity from da evil govt" type arguments here.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> I'm calling BS unless a source is given.
> They test before the fight and after.


Yes they test before the fight during a fighters training camp.

I love how you call for a source for that but have no source or proof that Frank Mir is roiding as you say. But I guess it's guilty until proven innocent for you. Which is very lame.


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## NotDylan (Jul 13, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> How many people have been caught juicing in the UFC? 4? No one is doing it until they get caught. People were saying A-Rod was on steroids and people would just say you have no proof blabla.


Do you realize how ignorant you sound in this post? 



> No one is doing it until they get caught.


This statement is just as ridiculous as what you seem to believe which is: any athlete who puts on a considerable amount of size is juicing. 



> Fact is, many UFC fighters are juicing, even people on the inside say this, and Mir is one of them.


THIS JUST IN: Opinions are now fact. There is no hard evidence that Mir is on steroids. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't but claiming that it's a fact that he is makes you look like a tool.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> How many people have been caught juicing in the UFC? 4? No one is doing it until they get caught. People were saying A-Rod was on steroids and people would just say you have no proof blabla. Fact is, many UFC fighters are juicing, even people on the inside say this, and Mir is one of them.


 
I was actually gonna waste my time and address this, but I'm glad I dont have to as the previous members have....

In short your logic is infantile and non factual, its a blanket statement with absolutely no proof and actually video evidence to counter your point as seen on the countdown with the rigorous routine that Mir is putting himself through....

Mackie Shilstone dude, if you know so much about boxing then that name and what he did for Bernard should stick out in our mind.....

As far as your time here on the forum, enjoy and be well I'm always willing to discuss or debate an issue but not with logic like yours.....

Be well....:thumbsup:


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

I wasn't trying to convince you, so the debate was nonexistent. If you don't believe he's juicing then nothing will convince you except a failed drug test(which will never happen with the inadequate testing out there)


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> I wasn't trying to convince you, so the debate was nonexistent. If you don't believe he's juicing then nothing will convince you except a failed drug test(which will never happen with the inadequate testing out there)


Funny that you are accusing a fighter you hate (as listed in your sig) of doing roids when you have no proof.

Just admit your bias and move on..........


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> I wasn't trying to convince you, so the debate was nonexistent. If you don't believe he's juicing then nothing will convince you except a failed drug test(which will never happen with the inadequate testing out there)


 
*faceplant*


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## NotDylan (Jul 13, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> I wasn't trying to convince you, so the debate was nonexistent. If you don't believe he's juicing then nothing will convince you except a failed drug test(which will never happen with the inadequate testing out there)


I wasn't trying to convince you, so the debate was nonexistent. If you believe he's juicing then nothing will convince you except a passed drug test (which proves nothing with all the inadequate testing out there).

Mir just can't win, can he? Luckily, logic shows up to save the day.


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> I wasn't trying to convince you, so the debate was nonexistent. If you don't believe he's juicing then nothing will convince you except a failed drug test(which will never happen with the inadequate testing out there)




Are you serious? Are you not tired of getting schooled by CC and the others? Just give up bro while you still have your pride because your just digging yourself deeper.


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