# never again will you see a sane person say brock can beat fedor



## flourhead (Jul 12, 2006)

holy piss


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## hatchmoses (May 20, 2009)

i believe brock would cause a ton of probelms for fedor, rogers was dominating fedor til he got caught.


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## the1nicko (Oct 25, 2009)

Rogers was not dominating the fight. It was a fantastic fight both ways. brock Lesnar would not beat Fedor, but I really would like to see the fight so Brock could get beat.


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## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

I still think Lesnar would give a lot of trouble to Fedor just by his size and wrestling ability. Fedor is miles ahead in striking, but Lesnar has the ability to probably take Fedor down at will, which is something Rogers could not depend on.

The fight will be epic if it ever does happen.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Yes because he looked incredibly vunerable an unproven prospect.

Lesnar won't stand with Fedor. Oh yeah and we saw Fedor nearly G&P out by Rogers, Lesnar? G&P? Yeah he's pretty good at it.


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

Lol noobs.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

I'll post in this thread, simply saying, "I would love to see Fedor v. Lesnar."


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Also, Fedor got hurt against Rogers and swept him with an armbar. If you saw the Mir fight, not only did Brock dominate him with powerful ground and pound, he did so with patience and intelligence. He didn't give one of the best sub fighters in the division a chance to do ANYTHING.


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## GMK13 (Apr 20, 2009)

i think lesnar would give fedor more problems than rogers did.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Brock is bigger and faster than Rogers and knows how to use his size. If Lesnar got the takedown early Fedor would never have the oppurtunity to gauge his stand up for the one punch he needs to take Lesnar out.


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## sworddemon (Feb 4, 2007)

The ground and pound Rogers was landing on Fedor in round one would be twice as vicious, if not more, if it were to come from Lesnar. I can definitely see Fedor KOing Lesnar just like he did Rogers, but at the same time I wouldn't be too suprised if Lesnar ground and pounded him to a stoppage.


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## NikosCC (May 16, 2007)

Lets wait to see how Brock looks against Carwin before he gets this Imaginary win over Fedor.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Standup fedor wins
Ground lesnar wins

seems pretty simple to me, who knows how it would actually play out.


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## lpbigd4444 (Oct 1, 2008)

Please dont start this crap. In what way are Rogers and Lesnar similar? Lesnar wouldn strike with the Russian freak of nature he would take him down and pound him. Great win for Fedor and impressive showing for Rogers who did better than I thought he would on the ground...


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## Guy (Feb 17, 2008)

All respect to Rogers, but everyone is thinking he dominated Fedor because of the cut. The facts are Fedor took a guy that was 30 pounds heavier (probably more on fight night) at will and knocked him the hell out. Sure Rogers did good, but in no way did he dominated. 

That GnP he landed on Fedor looked nasty though and as much as I hate to say it, Fedor's hand speed is slowing down.


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## MedicWanteD (May 27, 2007)

I hate to say it but Lesner would maul Fedor. I have no interest in this fight, i'd rather see Fedor vs. Randy.


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## HaVoK (Dec 31, 2006)

Now we are comparing to Rogers to Lesner? That is funny considering just the other day everyone thought he was a scrub. He gave Fedor a decent fight so now he is a top 5 HW I suppose.:confused02:


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## creepjacker (Jul 19, 2009)

Im tired of seeing Fedor fight nothing but nobodies and has beens. 

This fight didnt make me think Fedor is unbeatable, it showed me he is very beatable. If Rogers would have just fought him like he normally fights, he woulda won. Whether he wants to admit it or not, the Fedor thing got into his head. 

Lesnar could pose a serious threat to Fedor, just by his strength alone. If he can hold Mir down with one hand, who is much larger than Fedor, he could easily ground and pound him. The only thing Lesnar would have to worry about is leaving himself open for a submission. If he played it smart, he could beat Fedor, and pretty handily too.


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## brownpimp88 (Jun 22, 2006)

Lol, I don't know about you guys, but during that "dangerous" GNP by Rogers(in which maybe 2 clean shots landed), I was merely waiting for the armbar. And, like always, I was not disappointed.

Brock would not take Fedor down. If he did, he'd lose a limb. His best game plan would be to use his freakish size, press Fedor against the cage and look to beat Fedor up.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

WTF? Rogers and Fedor are both big so that means they have they are the same fighter? By that same logic Lesnar beat Randy so he must be able to beat Fedor? I don't understand how Fedor beating Rogers would effect the outlook on a possible Lesnar match?


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## HCbreaker (Aug 21, 2009)

Whoa, seems like this thread has attracted every lesnar nuthugger/fan there is (all 9 of them). Let me tell you why fedor would win:

Lesnar, however you see it, would strike with fedor. he would think that he is the faster stronger striker, which he isnt. this would give fedor a great chance to end the fight standing.

If lesnar tried to take him down, and fedor DIDN'T reverse him/hip toss him, he would likely sub him from bottom. see the coleman fight if you dont believe me. if you still dont believe me, remember that lesnar was subbed by mir. lesnar hasnt yet faced a world class submission fighter yet (mir is nowhere near top 10 grapplers in HW). granted, he would give fedor a great fight, but he is not ready for his level of experience and skill.

hell, ill take nog over brock. ill take carwin over brock. i would definitely take fedor over brock.

if brock stands with fedor, hes going to take a nap. if he takes him down, hes going to leave without one of his arms. i dont see any way he could win.


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## mtt_c (Jun 15, 2008)

creepjacker said:


> Im tired of seeing Fedor fight nothing but nobodies and has beens.
> 
> This fight didnt make me think Fedor is unbeatable, it showed me he is very beatable.
> 
> Very beatable...so beatable that he didn't get beat, by a guy with enough KO power to beat him and still Fedor managed to win. You're right.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

HCbreaker said:


> Whoa, seems like this thread has attracted every lesnar nuthugger/fan there is (all 9 of them). Let me tell you why fedor would win:


Watch it continue baiting people like this and you will be infracted


> Lesnar, however you see it, would strike with fedor. he would think that he is the faster stronger striker, which he isnt. this would give fedor a great chance to end the fight standing.


 This is merely speculation since you have no history to base this on.


> If lesnar tried to take him down, and fedor DIDN'T reverse him/hip toss him, he would likely sub him from bottom. see the coleman fight if you dont believe me. if you still dont believe me, remember that lesnar was subbed by mir. lesnar hasnt yet faced a world class submission fighter yet (mir is nowhere near top 10 grapplers in HW). granted, he would give fedor a great fight, but he is not ready for his level of experience and skill.


 Lesnar was really green when he was subbed by Mir and in alot of ways still isn't nearly as experianced as most guys at his level, Comparing Lesnar and Coleman is silly, Lesnar is much bigger, stronger, way more athletic and is a better wrestler. 


> hell, ill take nog over brock. ill take carwin over brock. i would definitely take fedor over brock.
> 
> if brock stands with fedor, hes going to take a nap. if he takes him down, hes going to leave without one of his arms. i dont see any way he could win.


 Everthing said here is speculation, Nog has struggeld against every big strong opponent he has ever fought and none of them had a ounce of Lesnar's wrestling ability, to be honest I see nothing from Nog's history to give me any indication that Lesnar could not beat him.


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

Damn Tox, you really aren't a Fedor fan? 

Sorry for the thread interruption.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Its not really about me being a fan or not its just I get annoyed at people trying to connect point A and B when they aren't even on the same page. Could Fedor knock Lesnar out? Very possible and you would be a fool to argue it couldn't happen but to argue that is is a inevitability is foolish especially if your using the fact he knocked out Rogers to make it. To argue Fedor could armbar Lesnar with ease, well Mir couldnt and infact even when he got one Lesnar powered out (Mir admitted this) considering Mir is a bigger and most likely stronger guy than Fedor I see no reason to believe he couldn't do the same.


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## HCbreaker (Aug 21, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Watch it continue baiting people like this and you will be infracted.


Hah you think that's baiting? do you ever read some of the other posts and topics around here? i think you just hate fedor (which you do, from reading your previous posts) and dislike the fact that he won.


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## brownpimp88 (Jun 22, 2006)

To be fair Toxic, 90% of opinions regarding potential fights are speculation, no matter which way you slice it. 

Coleman and Lesnar are very similar, aside from the size difference. One could quite logically argue that in terms of skill, Coleman was(<keyword) the more talented wrestler. Not to mention, Coleman was way more experienced then Brock going into the Fedor fight.(speculation>) Honestly, if Brock took Fedor down like Coleman did, the outcome would be the same. The only thing I can see happening is some idiotic ref like Maz stopping the fight early when Brock tries to unload and leave himself open for the armbar.

Edit: For the record, I speculated Brock's rode to victory in a previous post in this thread.


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## HCbreaker (Aug 21, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Its not really about me being a fan or not its just I get annoyed at people trying to connect point A and B when they aren't even on the same page. Could Fedor knock Lesnar out? Very possible and you would be a fool to argue it couldn't happen but to argue that is is a inevitability is foolish especially if your using the fact he knocked out Rogers to make it. To argue Fedor could armbar Lesnar with ease, well Mir couldnt and infact even when he got one Lesnar powered out (Mir admitted this) considering Mir is a bigger and most likely stronger guy than Fedor I see no reason to believe he couldn't do the same.


I thought that was the point of a forum, to speculate and connect points A and B? or is that not allowed anymore?

In any case, you cannot possibly believe that mir is as good at submissions as emelianenko. their skill could not be farther apart. lets see mir be under coleman and get the armbar, or be powerslammed from 9 ft in the air, reverse and still get the sub, or fight someone over 100 lbs heavier, more than a foot taller, and still win via submission? and if mir can sub brock, fedor would have no trouble doing the same.

my point is that, lesnar, whose submissions defense is leaky at best and atrocious at worst, who has only fought 5 times, would not be able to defend submissions if he took down fedor, which by many accounts would be his best gameplan.


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## Coosh (Sep 25, 2009)

Fedor did not impress at all tonight against a guy with zero credentials. If anything, I'm even more confident Brock would destroy him.


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## HCbreaker (Aug 21, 2009)

Coosh said:


> Fedor did not impress at all tonight against a guy with zero credentials. If anything, I'm even more confident Brock would destroy him.


he knocked him out. what else do you want him to do? call in a mob hit on him? and rogers KO'ed arlovski in 22 seconds. if thats not credentials i have no idea what is.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

HCbreaker said:


> Hah you think that's baiting? do you ever read some of the other posts and topics around here? i think you just hate fedor (which you do, from reading your previous posts) and dislike the fact that he won.


 Don't be a smart ass I guarantee it won't work out well for you.



HCbreaker said:


> I thought that was the point of a forum, to speculate and connect points A and B? or is that not allowed anymore?
> 
> In any case, you cannot possibly believe that mir is as good at submissions as emelianenko. their skill could not be farther apart. lets see mir be under coleman and get the armbar, or be powerslammed from 9 ft in the air, reverse and still get the sub, or fight someone over 100 lbs heavier, more than a foot taller, and still win via submission? and if mir can sub brock, fedor would have no trouble doing the same.
> 
> my point is that, lesnar, whose submissions defense is leaky at best and atrocious at worst, who has only fought 5 times, would not be able to defend submissions if he took down fedor, which by many accounts would be his best gameplan.


My point was that point A is completely irrelevant to point B, Rogers and Lesnar are nothing alike outside of there physical size, one is a heavy handed striker the other one of the best wrestlers in the division. Using the same logic that you used (Fedor beat Rogers who is the same size as Lesnar) I can assume Lesnar could beat Fedor because he beat Couture who is the same size as Fedor, see your logic is flawed and make no sense. Im not arguing your conclusion Im highlighting the major flaws in your logic. And please Mir may not be as good a submission guy in MMA as Fedor but come on Minowman subbed Choi so lets not brag Fedor subbed a guy a foot taller and 100lbs bigger because Im 100% certain Mir could submit Choi just as easily. As for your logic that Mir subbmitted Lesnar so Fedor could the problem is Lesnar was green and overly aggresive as he gained experiance and learnt to be more composed he pummeled Mir and Mir *wasn't *able to submit him.



brownpimp88 said:


> To be fair Toxic, 90% of opinions regarding potential fights are speculation, no matter which way you slice it.


 I was merely stating it was speculation based on nothing, since Lesnar has never faced a striker the caliber of Fedor its unfair to say he would try and stand with him to prove something.



> Coleman and Lesnar are very similar, aside from the size difference. One could quite logically argue that in terms of skill, Coleman was(<keyword) the more talented wrestler. Not to mention, Coleman was way more experienced then Brock going into the Fedor fight.(speculation>) Honestly, if Brock took Fedor down like Coleman did, the outcome would be the same. The only thing I can see happening is some idiotic ref like Maz stopping the fight early when Brock tries to unload and leave himself open for the armbar.
> 
> Edit: For the record, I speculated Brock's rode to victory in a previous post in this thread.


I actually believe Lesnar's top control is better than Colemans and in the 2nd Mir fight Lesnar showed a fastly improved ability to defend against Mir getting in position on the ground to go for a sub. I also think your underestimating just how much bigger and stronger Lesnar is, I mean Brock can take the takedown on pure force like he did when Couture sprawled his takedown, something Coleman would never be able to do, also as we saw tonight Fedor because of his relatively small size (for a HW) had difficulty keeping somebody as big and strong as Rogers down, now we haven't really seen Lesnar's sprawl but with his strength and explosiveness its not absurd by any means to assume he could do the same.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

If Rogers, a striker, could put Fedor into trouble on the ground, Lesnar, a freak of nature, wrestler, and soon to be master of the 'negate all subs from the bottom' style, could definitely put the outcome of a match with Fedor into serious doubt.

With that being said, in a striking match, Fedor would murder Lesnar on his feet.

To say that Lesnar beating Fedor is laughable, is in itself, laughable.

And no, I'm not a fan Lesnar and would desperately want Fedor to win that fight if they met.


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## HCbreaker (Aug 21, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Don't be a smart ass I guarantee it won't work out well for you.


nah, what im doing isnt being a smartass, its called having a different opinion from you, but props to you for acting tough because youre an internet forum mod :sarcastic12:.


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## Scorch (Apr 2, 2007)

Brock vs Fedor would be crazy. Brock's standup is terrible, but his wrestling is second to none. Fedor is a tiny HW, so it would be very interesting to see how Fedor would handle Lesnar.


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## Tomislav III (Aug 22, 2009)

lpbigd4444 said:


> Please dont start this crap. In what way are Rogers and Lesnar similar? Lesnar wouldn strike with the Russian freak of nature he would take him down and pound him.


Yes. Because we can always predict what's going to happen in a fight.


I love how everyone from the US seems to believe that wrestling is an invincible skill that can't be countered.

If someone like Lesnar were going after me with that, I would just uppercut their nose bone back into their brain. 


Also, it isn't like Fedor doesn't have any wrestling skills. Fedor is the greatest sambist. What is *****? Well, it's essentially a hyper-MMA style of wrestling.


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## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

Lesnar takes it imo. 

Fedor didn't exactly walk through Rogers and I believe that Lesnar is a much better fighter than Brett.


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## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

Iuanes said:


> Brock is bigger and faster than Rogers and knows how to use his size. If Lesnar got the takedown early Fedor would never have the oppurtunity to gauge his stand up for the one punch he needs to take Lesnar out.


agreed


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

hatchmoses said:


> i believe brock would cause a ton of probelms for fedor, rogers was dominating fedor til he got caught.


Thats what I thought, imean man! in the first round some of Fedors punches misses by 2 maybe 3 feet. Its true look at the replay. He looked lost on the ground with someone with little ground experience. Grim was in his guard landing monster shots to Fedors face. Props to Fedor for being able to take it and for landing a huge puch to finish the fight but cmon? how can someone think the top ufc guys wouldnt have a chance against that? Sh*t id take Brock for sure over the Fedor I saw tonight.


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

Toxic said:


> Don't be a smart ass I guarantee it won't work out well for you.



This is how dictatorships start. :thumbsdown:


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

Barock is HUGE! He beat Fedor 9 times out of 10. U c how Rogers almost wonned that fight?! Borock wood take him down and power bomb until he Fidor gave up!


(Brett got a good jab in and I was impressed when he stood up after Fedor took him to the ground. Besides that, Fedor had 2 take downs, a great left, a kimura and an armbar attempt. Yeah, Fedor...was really being dominated........)


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## MooJuice (Dec 12, 2008)

you need to start blogging already cornbread. seriously. i'd fu<king read that shit like its never been read before. And i dont even like blogs. i swing strictly in the way of forums.


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## chuck fan (russ) (Nov 13, 2006)

*Fedor why he'd win and why he didnt get dominated.*



CornbreadBB said:


> (Brett got a good jab in and I was impressed when he stood up after Fedor took him to the ground. Besides that, Fedor had 2 take downs, a great left, a kimura and an armbar attempt. Yeah, Fedor...was really being dominated........)


I agree 100% with this statement and cant see myself why people see this fight as Fedor getting dominated. The facts are as clear as this Rogers landed a good jab and cut his nose also he landed a few punches in a attempt at G&P. The counter of the speculation that Fedor was getting dominated is this, firstly he out worked Rogers on the feet even though Rogers has got heavy hands. Secondly in the conclusion to the statements about Fedor getting dominated by this G&P is that he wasn't hurt/rocked by the few shots and countered it well with an armbar attempt.

I know many people have become Lesnar fans because hes big and has won a --(FEW)-- (emphasis on the few) fights now. So lets all just get off the lesnar nutthugger bandwagon and do what mma fans are supposed to do which is look at the fight and what will make it good or bad(depending on the eye of the beholder I personally think there should be more grease in mma because greased up men gets me hard). A joke really I dont want more greasing or do I?. 

The fight when you think about it will be a great fight as Fedor would whoop some ass stood up and Lesnar is 2 times the size of Fedor so it would be hard for him to stop the take down. Not forgetting Lesnar has got good wrestling although you have got to think about Fedors judo and *****. It all narrows down to what Fedor could do off the bottom when fighting Lesnar as if he gets on his back he doesnt want to lay there like Mir did. In my opinion although difficult the entire thing comes down to getting back up or transisting to a better position on the floor. Mir didnt do a good job of moving or anything on the floor he wrapped his legs round one of Lesnars and laid there waiting for intercourse. 

If it stays stood up Fedor has the better striking and the better chance of knocking Lesnar out. If Fedor gets Lesnar on his back he has a chance to inflict some real damage but it depends on how Lesnar deals with being on his back. If fedor gets taken down by Lesnar he will get some serious G&P so will have to either work a submission which he has proven he can many times off his back. Fedor would have to get off his back to a better position on the ground or get back up which is difficult with somebody as big as Lesnar on you. But with all these contributing factors to this fight with Fedor being well proven off his back and having a stronger striking game. It has to be given to Fedor for the better pick of the two.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

HCbreaker said:


> nah, what im doing isnt being a smartass, its called having a different opinion from you, but props to you for acting tough because youre an internet forum mod :sarcastic12:.


You don't get it do you? Im happy to debate the topic with you, but leave the bullshit attitude at the door.


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## JWP (Jun 4, 2007)

D.P. said:


> Lol noobs.


this....

rogers dominating? nearly g&P'd?



jesus


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## kieranm (Oct 28, 2009)

i think people may see rogers dominating because he broke fedor's nose
this may not be true but it is my opinion feel free to disagree but please dont just say thats stupid actually rebut
If fedor fought brock, brock would charge and take him down as we saw with rogers(brock is probably stronger than him)brock would just use brute force to counter and fedor submissions, and from there just beat the hell out of him on the ground, fedor couldnt get up because brock would out wrestle him
just my two cents
i gave the first round to rogers but i wouldnt say he dominated fedor either


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Toxic said:


> You don't get it do you? Im happy to debate the topic with you, but leave the bullshit attitude at the door.


 

I showed him said door....no room for that here, even with your diplomatic approach....:thumbsup:


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## HCbreaker (Aug 21, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> I showed him said door....no room for that here, even with your diplomatic approach....:thumbsup:


Hm, nope. but back to topic, i do think that brock has developed that interesting top control that limits movement from bottom. in sharp contrast to coleman's position which creates room. however, i also think mir is not used to fighting off his back, and most likely did not know how to create that space. emelianenko does have that experience in being on bottom and would make that space.

and if he couldnt get the armbar, which i could see happening, he could always grab brock's leg once he started to escape ala mir to either sub him with a kneebar/ankle lock or simply reverse him. however good his top control on lesnar would be is hard to predict, because we havent seen lesnar on his back. all i can say is this is probably the #1 fight i want to see, with mousasi vs machida being a close second!:thumb02:


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

Toxic said:


> Its not really about me being a fan or not its just I get annoyed at people trying to connect point A and B when they aren't even on the same page. Could Fedor knock Lesnar out? Very possible and you would be a fool to argue it couldn't happen but to argue that is is a inevitability is foolish especially if your using the fact he knocked out Rogers to make it. *To argue Fedor could armbar Lesnar with ease, well Mir couldnt and infact even when he got one Lesnar powered out (Mir admitted this) considering Mir is a bigger and most likely stronger guy than Fedor I see no reason to believe he couldn't do the same*.


I cant see any plausible reason to think that Mir would be stronger than Fedor. Dont think Mir is stronger because he has what 10-20 pounds on him. Watch the way Fedor throws people around compared to Mir. His control of people is just so much better. Fedor is built like a bear no chance Mir is stronger than him. Fedors armbars off his back are second to none at HW. Mir has good BJJ but I cant even compare how much better Fedor is at armbarring people than Mir is.


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## xvanquish (Jul 30, 2009)

We can argue all day long but come fight night who is the favorite? Lesnar, as far as betting lines go, would be the underdog. Im sure all the "pro picks" would be favored for Fedor, not overwhelmingly say 60 40 which is what id bet the UFC fantasy poll would be around. 


We can gauge Fedors performance against wrestlers since we have seen him fight and WIN against 2 great wrestlers, Coleman and Randleman. Sure you can make the case for Lesnar being the better wrestler quite easily but lightyears ahead of Coleman and Randleman? I dont think so. Randleman was obviously roided to the max in his fight with Fedor, just look at the guy, absolutely shredded can you honestly tell me he at that fight he was not at comparable strength to Lesnar today? 


There is probably no man on earth who could survive a prolonged gorilla GnP from Lesnar but every second of the fight Brock is in _danger_. Obviously they will strike, no way around that, how long they would strike for? No one can say but it will happen-advantage obviously Fedor. The inevitable take down from Lesnar will obviously happen, the way he moved on the ground against Herring was amazing but still he will be in constant danger. Fedor took a _flush_ 10+ _power shots_ from the heavy handed Rogers in his guard. From that position those punches are the hardest sans a full mount clean throttle. Fedor took his hits like the champ he is and threw up a arm bar attempt which woulda locked but his leg hit the cage and Rogers rightfully rolled forward (or was just pushed not sure).


I absolutely love arguing about Fedor and Lesnar, I will not say Fedor is a huge favorite but Fedor all around skillwise is twice the man Lesnar is. Lesnar has his size and strengh but it is nothing that Fedor has already overcame and continues to do so. What im trying to get at is Fedor _has been there_ Lesnar _has not_.


The thread should be called- never again will you see a sane person say brock _is the favorite_. Cause if you really think Brock is the favorite then I will just go ahead and call you a dumb UFC hype nancy. 


Someone on this forum said and this is 100% true and wish I said it myself. 


"If Fedor started in the UFC he would be easily be the most beloved fighter in history"


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## lpbigd4444 (Oct 1, 2008)

I would like to publicly laugh at all those assuming Fedor would def armbar Lesnar. Is it a possibility? I guess but he failed to lock in the armbar on Rogers last night and I am sure Lesnar is a stronger, better athlete than the grim. Oh and I love how people try to say Mir isn a top 10 HW when it comes to ground game just because he failed to submit Lesnar in their second fight. People complain about all the Lesnar nuthuggers and Fedor haters but their are more mindlessly biased Brock haters than anything else.


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## HCbreaker (Aug 21, 2009)

lpbigd4444 said:


> I would like to publicly laugh at all those assuming Fedor would def armbar Lesnar. Is it a possibility? I guess but he failed to lock in the armbar on Rogers last night and I am sure Lesnar is a stronger, better athlete than the grim. Oh and I love how people try to say Mir isn a top 10 HW when it comes to ground game just because he failed to submit Lesnar in their second fight. People complain about all the Lesnar nuthuggers and Fedor haters but their are more mindlessly biased Brock haters than anything else.


Trust me, i am no Brock hater. hell, when i was little i was a fan of his WWE persona . and i do think that if he trains JJ consistently for a long time he will, in a few years, gain the type of submission defense that is needed to keep the belt. but he is not near that point yet, and fedor has been training submissions ever since he was a small child.


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## xvanquish (Jul 30, 2009)

lpbigd4444 said:


> I would like to publicly laugh at all those assuming Fedor would def armbar Lesnar





His armbar's are legendary and his favorite move and assuming he wins, an armbar would not be a surprise move by any means. Obviously it is an outlandish statement that he would "def win by armar" but highly unlikely to happen? that is laughable.

http://www.mma-core.com/gifs/_Brett...ounds_Fedor_Emelianenko_?gid=10000956&tid=107
I dno how to post gifs btw 


The only thing that stopped that armbar from happening is the cage, his foot got stopped by the corner and Rogers dived forward. If they were in the middle of the mat that wouldve locked and fight woulda bin over. Better off anyways since after that pummeling all the haters woulda just said "fluked out the armbar".


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

steveo412 said:


> I cant see any plausible reason to think that Mir would be stronger than Fedor. Dont think Mir is stronger because he has what 10-20 pounds on him. Watch the way Fedor throws people around compared to Mir. His control of people is just so much better. Fedor is built like a bear no chance Mir is stronger than him. Fedors armbars off his back are second to none at HW. Mir has good BJJ but I cant even compare how much better Fedor is at armbarring people than Mir is.


I would say the probably 15 pounds Mir has and the fact that I can visibably see he has a substantially lower body fat % should make it pretty clear Mir obviously has more muscle mass than Fedor. Fedor throws people using technique not raw strength, come on. Fedor's may be the best in the division at getting catching his opponent in an arm bar but that doesnn't mean once caught he is the best most powerdul with it, I don't think having Fedor lock in an arm bar is any worse than having Mir lock one in, it may be more likely but if you really want to argue it Mir broke Sylvia's arms so Arms broken via Armbar, Fedor 0 Mir 1.


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## xvanquish (Jul 30, 2009)

Toxic said:


> I would say the probably 15 pounds Mir has and the fact that I can visibably see he has a substantially lower body fat % should make it pretty clear Mir obviously has more muscle mass than Fedor. Fedor throws people using technique not raw strength, come on. Fedor's may be the best in the division at getting catching his opponent in an arm bar but that doesnn't mean once caught he is the best most powerdul with it, I don't think having Fedor lock in an arm bar is any worse than having Mir lock one in, it may be more likely but if you really want to argue it Mir broke Sylvia's arms so Arms broken via Armbar, Fedor 0 Mir 1.




Not trying to offend anyone but arguing about who has a stronger armbar is laughable since whats the whole point of BJJ? Have you forgot? Its using technique to bypass strength. Your whole body vs an arm is a no contest. strength is not a factor. Im sure if BJ Penn had had an arm bar locked in he would be strong enough to pull it back against any HW. Mir broke Tims arm cause he stood up so there was Mir pulling with the added weight of a HW fighter hanging off his arm, that's what broke his arm, which woulda broken anyone's arm really.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Considering Mir actually said Lesnar straight powered out of his armbar it is completly relevant if your calling Fedor (who I think would be weaker) to win that way.


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## xvanquish (Jul 30, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Considering Mir actually said Lesnar straight powered out of his armbar it is completly relevant if your calling Fedor (who I think would be weaker) to win that way.


A locked arm bar not an attempt. Mir attempted Armbars he never had one locked ie legs over the neck arm extended.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I realize that but Im just saying, I think its all relavant and see no reason that Fedor is better at applying it,its his transitions and ability to get himself positioned that are supperior, once your there its all the same.


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## xvanquish (Jul 30, 2009)

Toxic said:


> I realize that but Im just saying, I think its all relavant and see no reason that Fedor is better at applying it,its his transitions and ability to get himself positioned that are supperior, once your there its all the same.




Fully agreed :thumbsup:


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

Toxic said:


> I would say the probably 15 pounds Mir has and the fact that I can visibably see he has a substantially lower body fat % should make it pretty clear Mir obviously has more muscle mass than Fedor. Fedor throws people using technique not raw strength, come on. Fedor's may be the best in the division at getting catching his opponent in an arm bar but that doesnn't mean once caught he is the best most powerdul with it, I don't think having Fedor lock in an arm bar is any worse than having Mir lock one in, it may be more likely but if you really want to argue it Mir broke Sylvia's arms so Arms broken via Armbar, Fedor 0 Mir 1.


Anyone can break an arm with an armbar if its locked in properly, you dont need any extreme strength to do that. Saying Mir is stronger than Fedor based on how Tim is too stupid to tap out is ridiculous, even I know thats not what you meant. But cmon look at the way Fedor can control people so much bigger than him. Look at how he can just wrench a Kimura on people with ease. His punches have a sh-t tone of power behind them, like the guy is just scary strong for his size, good technique or not he is damn strong. The guy is strong as hell and Mir was never really known for strength as much as his technique I really dont even know how there strength can be compared. 

Mir definetly knows how to slap an armbar on dont get me wrong but the way Fedor does it on ppl in MMA is just beautiful to watch nobody else does it like him. If Lesnar and Him ever fight and Lesnar gets the top position Fedor has a better chance than anyone else of pulling off a sub is all I am saying. Not saying nobody else could but its pretty much his specialty no matter how big his opponent is. Lesnar is a totally different fighter than anything he is faced and IMO has the best chance at beating Fedor but I just think he is still too green to not get caught in a sub or standing.



Toxic said:


> I realize that but Im just saying, I think its all relavant and see no reason that Fedor is better at applying it,its his transitions and ability to get himself positioned that are supperior, once your there its all the same.


Getting and transitioning to a position to get an armbar is a big part of applying an armbar.


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## xvanquish (Jul 30, 2009)

steveo412 said:


> Lesnar is a totally different fighter than anything he is faced and IMO has the best chance at beating Fedor but I just think he is still too green to not get caught in a sub or standing.



Thats the thing though how in the world is Lesnar a totally different fighter than Fedor has faced before please elaborate.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

xvanquish said:


> Thats the thing though how in the world is Lesnar a totally different fighter than Fedor has faced before please elaborate.


300 lb Wrestler with strength that nobody else really has. He is maybe one of the only fighters Fedor has faced that he wouldnt be able to take down. He has Hams for hands and swings them really hard. Lesnar is definetly a difficult fighter for anyone just because of his physical attributes. Closest thing to him was Coleman and IMO Coleman just isnt that good.


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## HCbreaker (Aug 21, 2009)

Toxic said:


> I would say the probably 15 pounds Mir has and the fact that I can visibably see he has a substantially lower body fat % should make it pretty clear Mir obviously has more muscle mass than Fedor.


This argument is flawed. You think because Mir has 15 lbs on Fedor and he is more cut he is stronger? There is an elementary part of human anatomy that sais that you do not have to have more muscle mass than someone to be stronger than them. Why you ask?

Your body has an inhibitive hormone in the muscles that limits them to using only 1/3 of their full strength. You know why? because humans are actually ridiculously strong without it, and could potentially damage their joints and tendons if muslces could use all of their power. The thing is, some people have less of this hormone, allowing them to use slightly more of their potential strength. Thus, you DONT have to have more muscle to be stronger.


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## xvanquish (Jul 30, 2009)

steveo412 said:


> 300 lb Wrestler with strength that nobody else really has. He is maybe one of the only fighters Fedor has faced that he wouldnt be able to take down. He has Hams for hands and swings them really hard. Lesnar is definetly a difficult fighter for anyone just because of his physical attributes. Closest thing to him was Coleman and IMO Coleman just isnt that good.



How bout a roided out explosive Kevin Randleman? I mentioned this before, tell me randleman wasn't at comparable strength to Lesnar the guys ******* veins looked like they were about to explode. Not to mention he was a two time DIV 1 champ huge and pretty damn fast AND he wasted no time shooting in and taking Fedor down. Im sure we all know how the fight ended.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

xvanquish said:


> How bout a roided out explosive Kevin Randleman? I mentioned this before, tell me randleman wasn't at comparable strength to Lesnar the guys ******* veins looked like they were about to explode. Not to mention he was a two time DIV 1 champ huge and pretty damn fast AND he wasted no time shooting in and taking Fedor down. Im sure we all know how the fight ended.


I think Lesnar has a good 40+ pounds of muscle on the Roided out Randleman that fought Fedor. But either way Randleman is really just not that good of a fighter. He is fun to watch and just goes full board rigth when he gets in there but skillwise he just isnt that good.


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## xvanquish (Jul 30, 2009)

steveo412 said:


> I think Lesnar has a good 40+ pounds of muscle on the Roided out Randleman that fought Fedor. But either way Randleman is really just not that good of a fighter. He is fun to watch and just goes full board rigth when he gets in there but skillwise he just isnt that good.



I understand that but they are similar fighters, what is Brock Lesnar an athlete with great wrestling sub par striking but makes up for it by being a pink fleshed HULK. But I am not convinced that Lesnar brings anything new to the table other than what a size advantage? That has already been overcome.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

xvanquish said:


> I understand that but they are similar fighters, what is Brock Lesnar an athlete with great wrestling sub par striking but makes up for it by being a pink fleshed HULK. But I am not convinced that Lesnar brings anything new to the table other than what a size advantage? That has already been overcome.


Depends how you consider the size advantage being the same as when he fought HMC or big Tim. Tim and Lesnar may both weigh in at 265 but there builds are 100% different. I dont see how anyone has the same size advantage that Lesnar has with a pure wide build and unmatched strength by anyone. 

Believe me I dont think Lesnar would beat Fedor right now. I think he is too green and would get his arm broke or his chin smashed standing. I just think his style is a different challenge for Fedor than he has seen.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

HCbreaker said:


> This argument is flawed. You think because Mir has 15 lbs on Fedor and he is more cut he is stronger? There is an elementary part of human anatomy that sais that you do not have to have more muscle mass than someone to be stronger than them. Why you ask?
> 
> Your body has an inhibitive hormone in the muscles that limits them to using only 1/3 of their full strength. You know why? because humans are actually ridiculously strong without it, and could potentially damage their joints and tendons if muslces could use all of their power. The thing is, some people have less of this hormone, allowing them to use slightly more of their potential strength. Thus, you DONT have to have more muscle to be stronger.


 I will openly admit not to being a biology anything and have not taken bio in a long as time so I don't know enough on this issue to know whether this is correct or not. My point was simply that Mir probably has a good 25 pounds of pure muscle mass on Fedor, now even if I give your point credit I find it difficult to see a person who contains that much more muscle mass would not be stronger, we aren't talking about 5 or even 10 pounds muscle mass but in personal life experiance even a 10 pound increase in muscle mass leads to a substantial increase in muscle power. The link may not be 100% but it is foolish to act like there is absolutly no correlation.


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## xvanquish (Jul 30, 2009)

steveo412 said:


> Depends how you consider the size advantage being the same as when he fought HMC or big Tim. Tim and Lesnar may both weigh in at 265 but there builds are 100% different. I dont see how anyone has the same size advantage that Lesnar has with a pure wide build and unmatched strength by anyone.
> 
> Believe me I dont think Lesnar would beat Fedor right now. I think he is too green and would get his arm broke or his chin smashed standing. I just think his style is a different challenge for Fedor than he has seen.



HMC and Tim were large of course but not the same size advantage as Lesnar has. Lesnars big advantage is he fully utilizes his size advantage, big tim did to an extent (pushing against the cage yawn) but Lesnar is much more effective. 

Lesnar will lose again before he faces Fedor mark my words. I do not see them fighting for a long time maybe 2011 at the earliest certainly not next year. I put Lesnar as a favorite over any HW fighter right now but he will lose to one of these guys- Carwin, JDS, Gonzaga, Valasquez, Nog, Overeem - yes overeem I cant help but hype him..


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

xvanquish said:


> HMC and Tim were large of course but not the same size advantage as Lesnar has. Lesnars big advantage is he fully utilizes his size advantage, big tim did to an extent (pushing against the cage yawn) but Lesnar is much more effective.
> 
> Lesnar will lose again before he faces Fedor mark my words. I do not see them fighting for a long time maybe 2011 at the earliest certainly not next year. I put Lesnar as a favorite over any HW fighter right now but he will lose to one of these guys- Carwin, JDS, Gonzaga, Valasquez, Nog, Overeem - yes overeem I cant help but hype him..


Totally agree. Except Overeem he would get smashed by that whole list I think. lol maybe not Gonzaga


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## xvanquish (Jul 30, 2009)

I just have high hopes for Ubereem from his last few fights and I cannot say that he wouldnt get smashed without sounding biased


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

steveo412 said:


> Mir definetly knows how to slap an armbar on dont get me wrong but the way Fedor does it on ppl in MMA is just beautiful to watch nobody else does it like him. If Lesnar and Him ever fight and Lesnar gets the top position *Fedor has a better chance than anyone else of pulling off a sub* is all I am saying. Not saying nobody else could but its pretty much his specialty no matter how big his opponent is. Lesnar is a totally different fighter than anything he is faced and IMO has the best chance at beating Fedor but I just think he is still too green to not get caught in a sub or standing.


This is my problem, although Fedor's record shows alot of submisions I would like to point out that while Fedor has knocked out some feirce strikers at there own game he has never submitted a single black belt, not one in his entire MMA career. People think if anyone can do it its Fedor but the truth is there are alot of superior grapplers in MMA than Fedor, he may be the best overall fighter but there are grapplers in the sport who are better than Fedor.


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## HCbreaker (Aug 21, 2009)

Toxic said:


> This is my problem, although Fedor's record shows alot of submisions I would like to point out that while Fedor has knocked out some feirce strikers at there own game he has never submitted a single black belt, not one in his entire MMA career. People think if anyone can do it its Fedor but the truth is there are alot of superior grapplers in MMA than Fedor, he may be the best overall fighter but there are grapplers in the sport who are better than Fedor.


Then name one. Name a HW who is better at MMA grappling than Fedor.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Its all subjective and a matter of styles but guys like Fabricio Werdum and Jeff Monson are far superior submission guys than Fedor, admittedly neither are as skilled in controlling were the fight takes place but both are better at submissions.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

Toxic said:


> This is my problem, although Fedor's record shows alot of submisions I would like to point out that while Fedor has knocked out some feirce strikers at there own game he has never submitted a single black belt, not one in his entire MMA career. People think if anyone can do it its Fedor but the truth is there are alot of superior grapplers in MMA than Fedor, he may be the best overall fighter but there are grapplers in the sport who are better than Fedor.


Yah I agree there is better grapplers. Mir is definetly not one of them IMO. The thing is though what HW blackbelts that are legitimate MMA fighters ever get subbmitted by anyone in MMA. Take NOG for example one of the best BJJ HWs the sport has ever seen. Is he a better grappler than Fedor at just grappling? I dont know, but I dont really care either because Fedor is better at MMA and won the fight on the ground with him in an MMA match. Whether he could beat him straight grappling is irrelavent. Fedor beat a Black belt in that fight. He didnt submit him but damn man nobody is going to likely do that. Subbing a black belt is not something he really needs to prove to me because its not something that happens often especially at HW. He has beat black belts thats good enough for me to show how good his ground game is. He can still sub the less experienced grapplers like its nothing and black belts havent been able to sub him either.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

My only issue is acting like Fedor is the submission god because he has not proven to be one, even the Sylvia fight the choke was a formality he easily could have ended the fight with GnP if he has chose to it was the big right that ended the fight.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

Toxic said:


> My only issue is acting like Fedor is the submission god because he has not proven to be one, even the Sylvia fight the choke was a formality he easily could have ended the fight with GnP if he has chose to it was the big right that ended the fight.


He isnt going about subbing all the blackbelts but they arent subbing each other either. Your right he isnt a submission god in MMA but nobody is. But he can sub lesser grappling skill wise opponents as good or better than anyone else out there.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Toxic said:


> My only issue is acting like Fedor is the submission god because he has not proven to be one, even the Sylvia fight the choke was a formality he easily could have ended the fight with GnP if he has chose to it was the big right that ended the fight.


With pure submissions, there are quite a few HW guys who are better than Fedor, no question.

However, in an MMA fight, when Fedor is on his back, he moves his hips at a much faster rate than almost all HW fighters and he is solid with submissions in general, which lets him catch guys in armbars quickly.

I think what people are saying is that if there is one person at HW to catch Brock in a sub when on their back, it's Fedor, as Fedor is far more explosive than most HW guys, and he would be able to actually use his strength, explosiveness, speed, and submission skills together to slap an armbar on Brock quickly and out of nowhere, like he has been known to do.

Mir could not do this, as he's not explosive, he's not really that strong, and with Brock's improved top control, it'll take someone who has explosive submissions to catch him (Fedor).

I personally think both Fedor and Nog would both rip Brock's arm off, but that is where people are coming from with the whole "if there is anyone, it's Fedor" argument.

EDIT - A good example of what I'm talking about is GSP. There are better "official" wrestlers than him, but his explosiveness and speed allows him to manhandle people. That is sort of like Fedor - He isn't as good as others with submissions, but his explosiveness and speed at his weight class allows him to do crazy shit off his back.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

Michael Carson said:


> With pure submissions, there are quite a few HW guys who are better than Fedor, no question.
> 
> However, in an MMA fight, when Fedor is on his back, he moves his hips at a much faster rate than almost all HW fighters and he is solid with submissions in general, which lets him catch guys in armbars quickly.
> 
> ...


Yup totally agree


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## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

everyone keeps talking about that gnp that Rogers landed on Fedor... and correct me if I'm wrong, but it looked to me as if Fedor was allowing that gnp to occur so he could set up an armbar.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

enceledus said:


> everyone keeps talking about that gnp that Rogers landed on Fedor... and correct me if I'm wrong, but it looked to me as if Fedor was allowing that gnp to occur so he could set up an armbar.


I don't believe Fedor was taking a beating to setup an armbar. He was taking a beating, and saw an opportunity to attempt an armbar.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I don't think Fedor was allowing it, he was looking for the submission to A end the fight and B because if he just covered up to not allow the GNP the fight would have been stopped.


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## HCbreaker (Aug 21, 2009)

enceledus said:


> everyone keeps talking about that gnp that Rogers landed on Fedor... and correct me if I'm wrong, but it looked to me as if Fedor was allowing that gnp to occur so he could set up an armbar.


Its quite possible, one of the first principles of BJJ is that if youre on bottom and your opponent plants a hand on the ground, put him in an armbar. the same could be said with GNP, if you overcommit to a punch and miss, you could be armbarred if your opponent is quicker than youa re.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Ok seriously you guys are just being ridiculous now, nobody allows a 280 pound man to unload on them intentionally and if you really think that your Fedor love is beyond any resemblance to reality and you probably think that its gonna take somebody with a piece of kryptonite to beat him.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Ok seriously you guys are just being ridiculous now, nobody allows a 280 pound man to unload on them intentionally and if you really think that your Fedor love is beyond any resemblance to reality and you probably think that its gonna take somebody with a piece of kryptonite to beat him.


I'm glad someone said it. :thumb02:


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

People shouldnt expect for him to go into a fight and just Knock the guy out and walk away without getting hit. Just because he is the best fighter in the world doesnt mean the other guy isnt going to get a few shots in, or put him in a bad positions. Its a fight and anything can happen. Rogers had a good showing and just ended up knocked out. Fedor is without a doubt the best HW fighter in the world still, this doesnt mean he isnt going to get punched in a fight.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

HCbreaker said:


> Hm, nope. but back to topic, i do think that brock has developed that interesting top control that limits movement from bottom. in sharp contrast to coleman's position which creates room. however, i also think mir is not used to fighting off his back, and most likely did not know how to create that space. emelianenko does have that experience in being on bottom and would make that space.
> 
> and if he couldnt get the armbar, which i could see happening, he could always grab brock's leg once he started to escape ala mir to either sub him with a kneebar/ankle lock or simply reverse him. however good his top control on lesnar would be is hard to predict, because we havent seen lesnar on his back. all i can say is this is probably the #1 fight i want to see, with mousasi vs machida being a close second!:thumb02:


Brocks top control is constant spinning on opponents back o try to rain down punches from the side or control his hips in guard..his base is naturally good from his wrestling but seriously.....factor in Fedors ***** and the fact its a style Brock isnt going to train for, that alone could be the difference.....



HCbreaker said:


> Then name one. Name a HW who is better at MMA grappling than Fedor.


Fabricio Werdum, Perhaps Randy, Frank Mir.....there's three to start and yes I am serious and yes they technically are better on the ground....does that seem to matter with Fdor......No!!!


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## HCbreaker (Aug 21, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Fabricio Werdum, Perhaps Randy, Frank Mir.....there's three to start and yes I am serious and yes they technically are better on the ground....does that seem to matter with Fdor......No!!!


Fabricio hasnt had an impressive sub on a high ranking opponent in years. i cant even remember the last time randy pulled a sub, and while frank does have some good subs and is proven on the ground, put in parallel i would have to disagree strongly that he is anywhere near emelianenko's level. he just can't pull off the kind of subs that fedor can.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I all fairness to Mir, I would say he probably has a much more diverse submission game than Fedor he can pull of any sub Fedor can, he may not be able to pull them of with the same ease of work the transitions but dude is crazy aggressive and always looking for something.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

HCbreaker said:


> Fabricio hasnt had an impressive sub on a high ranking opponent in years. i cant even remember the last time randy pulled a sub, and while frank does have some good subs and is proven on the ground, put in parallel i would have to disagree strongly that he is anywhere near emelianenko's level. he just can't pull off the kind of subs that fedor can.


 
Overeem, Aleks E., Gonzaga and Vera....yeah his wins were subs against the fist 2 but TKO's against the second so dude is dangerous and works well when he's in your guard.....

Child Please....


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

Maybe in a straight grappling contest you could say Werdum is a better grappler than Fedor, but in an MMA match Fedors overall ground game is better, submission wise I cant really give the advantage to either but Fedors GnP work is just so good.

As for Mir I think Fedor is just overall better than him grappling wise, submission wise and GnP wise. I just dont see how Mir is superior at anything.


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## HCbreaker (Aug 21, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Overeem, Aleks E., Gonzaga and Vera....yeah his wins were subs against the fist 2 but TKO's against the second so dude is dangerous and works well when he's in your guard.....
> 
> Child Please....


you destroyed your own argument inside of your post. he has basically no impressive submissions, and he is not aggressive at all. so you think werdum is a better MMA submission grappler than fedor?

"child please?" i think youre mad because you couldnt ban me  and ive been training BJJ and submission grappling for years, so i know a little about the subject. whats your experience?


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

HCbreaker said:


> you destroyed your own argument inside of your post. he has basically no impressive submissions, and he is not aggressive at all. so you think werdum is a better MMA submission grappler than fedor?


Yes, Werdum is a better submission grappler than Fedor. He applies the game better than Fedor and if you don't think that, then you're delusional.

Fedor is a good grappler, but he makes a lot of bluebelt mistakes. If you had any grappling experience, like you claim to, you'd know that.

Frankly, I love Fedor. I think he's the greatest fighter in the world. And I'm the first to say he would crush any heavyweight not just active today, but in the history of the sport.

However, to say that he is the greatest grappler in the sport is, simply, a lie.

Fedor does not work from the top like Jeff Monson. Sure, his ground-and-pound is aggressive and precise. He does not pass the guard the way that Jeff does. He does not control position the way that Fabricio Werdum does. He does not transition between sweeps and submissions off of his back the way that Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira does.

I can get into the specifics, and all I really need to do is reference the Mark Hunt fight to make my point (Fedor missed an easy armbar off of the top against Hunt; I was very surprised, as it was a clear technical slip).

His grappling works. It's effective. It's explosive.

However, it's not the best grappling game in MMA. The reason Fedor would dismantle a guy like Monson has nothing to do with his ground game. Monson is a better grappler. But since Monson is not a striker in any sense of the word, and Fedor hits with the speed and precision of a middleweight, he'd put Jeff to sleep. The same is true for Werdum.



> "child please?" i think youre mad because you couldnt ban me  and ive been training BJJ and submission grappling for years, so i know a little about the subject. whats your experience?


Keep it up. Everybody knows where your baiting and trolling ends.


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## Guy (Feb 17, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Tthere own game he has never submitted a single black belt


Naoya Ogawa. 4 time World Judo Champion, Bronze medalist at the Asian Games, Gold medalist at the Asian Championships, and Silva medalist in the 1992 Olympics. He also had a 4 inch height advantage on Fedor and outweighed him by 20 pounds, had a good 7 fight win streak, yet Fedor still armbarred him in 54 seconds.

His only other loss came from Yoshida, but Yoshida is a stud at Judo too and it took him 6 minutes to do it.


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## kano666 (Nov 2, 2007)

Well, the guy quoted on this (steveo412, quoted at top of page 8) didn't say Fedor was the best MMA grappler, he just said Fedor had the best chance of pulling off a sub from bottom against Lesnar. I think I agree with this - the only other person I could see doing this is Nogueira. Lesnar's top game is very active and dominating, and his skill/athleticism/pure size/pace make it very tough to be slick from bottom. But Fedor and Nog both have explosive transitions and subs, and can weather a storm.

Fedor's also got deadly KO hands, the best standing throws and TDD at HW, and elite-level ground and pound. He did look human at times against Rodgers, and I think a good game-plan coach could find weak spots in Fedor's armour watching the Arlovski and Rodgers fights. At the same time, Rodgers impressed me with his guard, sub defence & g'n'p in that fight - I think he had a great showing and gave Fedor his toughest fight in years. I think the early broken nose made it tough for Fedor to breathe, which hurt the rest of his game (certainly that round) so that he had to be careful with pacing so as not to gas early.

The thread title's silly - of course Brock can beat Fedor. It's not like the guy is a chump, he's got some crazy abilities and attributes. He's head and shoulders above anyone Fedor has faced in years (I think he matches up better than Crocop did even back when CC was a stone-cold killer). But Fedor's a complete fighter and a MAJOR step up from everyone Brock's ever faced. I'd be cheering for Fedor & betting on Fedor.


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

hatchmoses said:


> i believe brock would cause a ton of probelms for fedor, rogers was dominating fedor til he got caught.


just like Arlovski was "dominating" Fedor until he got caught? Fedor cuts easy so you can't really use "damage" as a gauge of his being "dominated". How many times does Fedor have to say in interviews that he spends the beginning of every fight testing his opponent and looking for their weakness?

Did he allow himself to get hit? No, of course not. But he certainly baits his opponents. You can't expect the man to walk into a fight and not break a sweat. He's very close to unbeatable, but he's still human. If you really watch his fights, in most of them there are times when it looks like things will turn out bad, but he always, ALWAYS ends up shocking his critics and fans alike. 

Randleman slam on neck anyone?


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

pt447 said:


> just like Arlovski was "dominating" Fedor until he got caught? Fedor cuts easy so you can't really use "damage" as a gauge of his being "dominated". How many times does Fedor have to say in interviews that he spends the beginning of every fight testing his opponent and looking for their weakness?


I thought Fedor won the first round. He ended the round on top of Rogers and I think he landed more punches in the round. Rogers just got the big GnP flurry when Fedor went for a sloppy Kimura and lost position but gained it back right away. I have no idea how Fedor was dominated before he KO'd him. I had him ahead on the scorecards for sure.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

HCbreaker said:


> you destroyed your own argument inside of your post. he has basically no impressive submissions, and he is not aggressive at all. so you think werdum is a better MMA submission grappler than fedor?
> 
> "child please?" i think youre mad because you couldnt ban me  and ive been training BJJ and submission grappling for years, so i know a little about the subject. whats your experience?


 
My forte' is Karate..Shotokan background black belt in that and Tae Kwon Do.... I can ban you anytime I want...so dont get crazy on that.....

Regardless of your BJJ if thats you in your avatar I'm sure I wouldnt need to concern myself with your BJJ. You train BJJ and think Werdum ground game is weak??? Most likly I wouldnt even have to sprawl on you if you shot in I would just kick you in the face and then let my hands go...but if you think I dont have subs.....well I do!! 

The guy beneath you will fold you like a ptretzel and make you beg him to stop....and prob do it in less than 1 min......look him up if your in Cali....I have to tout him cuz he never would.....he has trained with people we dream of......no joke...Sorry IronMan to blow ur spot up...:confused05:



IronMan said:


> Yes, Werdum is a better submission grappler than Fedor. He applies the game better than Fedor and if you don't think that, then you're delusional.
> 
> Fedor is a good grappler, but he makes a lot of bluebelt mistakes. If you had any grappling experience, like you claim to, you'd know that.
> 
> ...


 
FTR...he was banned once and granted another shot....


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

lol meet by the bikeracks at 3:30 no moms aloud








haha sorry I had to


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

steveo412 said:


> lol meet by the bikeracks at 3:30 no moms aloud
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
LOL...the good old days!!! 

I really was never one for that, once, but that was it. From that point forward when I had a beef in school we did it right there, none of that after school crap....:thumbsdown:

Funny you read the title of this thread.....but then there are like 5 threads on how LesNAR could beat Fedor....


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

coldcall420 said:


> LOL...the good old days!!!
> 
> I really was never one for that, once, but that was it. From that point forward when I had a beef in school we did it right there, none of that after school crap....:thumbsdown:
> 
> Funny you read the title of this thread.....but then there are like 5 threads on how LesNAR could beat Fedor....


The after school way was good when your really young though. Get a nice big audience for a scrap haha


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

steveo412 said:


> The after school way was good when your really young though. Get a nice big audience for a scrap haha


 
Yeah then some pissed off parent would come swoopin in and tryin to break it up threatening everyone there that she would tell their parents...sure lady...:thumbsup:


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

coldcall420 said:


> Yeah then some pissed of parent would come swoopin in and tryin to break it up threatening everyone there that she would tell their parents...sure lady...:thumbsup:


Buzzkill.

She probably just wanted to scrap with the parents.


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## name goes here (Aug 15, 2007)

Random Fedor thought:

I think his camp lied when they said he practices the same for every opponent. He fought quite differently against Rogers than AA. V AA he was slipping punches, V Rogers he was stepping in. Makes sense, Rogers is slower so easier to get into range with, AA being quicker that was harder to do.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

name goes here said:


> Random Fedor thought:
> 
> I think his camp lied when they said he practices the same for every opponent. He fought quite differently against Rogers than AA. V AA he was slipping punches, V Rogers he was stepping in. Makes sense, Rogers is slower so easier to get into range with, AA being quicker that was harder to do.


 
Well...AA was sticking and moving, Brett made it clear he wanted to bumrush Fedor.....Its pretty simple when he fought AA last AA was the aggressor backing Fedor down...

Funny this time the 5'11 Fedor backed down Rogers and that alone set a different style and pace for this fight....


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Don't forget the stalking. There was some pretty sweet cyborg stalking going on.


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## Lloyd (Oct 15, 2006)

I think Brock could win this fight if he takes it to the ground. If he trys to stand and trade with Fedor he will lose.


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## MooJuice (Dec 12, 2008)

Toxic said:


> I will openly admit not to being a biology anything and have not taken bio in a long as time so I don't know enough on this issue to know whether this is correct or not. My point was simply that Mir probably has a good 25 pounds of pure muscle mass on Fedor, now even if I give your point credit I find it difficult to see a person who contains that much more muscle mass would not be stronger, we aren't talking about 5 or even 10 pounds muscle mass but in personal life experiance even a 10 pound increase in muscle mass leads to a substantial increase in muscle power. The link may not be 100% but it is foolish to act like there is absolutly no correlation.


even 60 pounds of pure muscle mass can be useless when it comes to strength.

look at bobybuilder jay cutler, current mr olympia:









and look at 5X worlds strongest man, Mariusz Pudzianowski:









now, one could argue that a powerlifter could lift more weight maximally on the squat/bench/deadlift - and they'd be right. But many proffesionals involved in strength sports agree that strongman contests are the current best analysis of all round strength, as the athletes must have flexibility, endurance, and be able to lift multiple times.

i found this thread on bodybuilding.com: Click and even on a permier bodybuilding site, every single person agrees that looking the strongest absolutely does not mean in the slightest that you *are* the strongest.

now, i'm not going to apply this to brock or fedor, as to know their strengths you'd have to properly disssect one of their muscles.

However hopefully by doing this research for you i have shown that 10, 15, or even 50 pounds of weight on somebody absolutely does not imply that they would be stronger than someone else.

It all depends on muscle fibre density, and also on ratio of fast/slow twitch muscle fibres. But that is getting into biology so i'll save that for another day.

anyway, hopefully you'll at least have learnt something for today. I just thought i'd share my knowledge on the topic, without speculating specifically as to it's application to MMA.


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## name goes here (Aug 15, 2007)

Fedor pushed Brett off. But Brett prob has a bigger bench/ squat whatever than Fedor. Strength in the ring is related to technique.


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