# ***OFFICIAL*** Junior dos Santos vs. Frank Mir Pre/Post Fight Discussion



## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

*Heavyweight bout: 206-265 pounds
For the UFC Heavyweight championship*










*Last five fights - Junior dos Santos:*












*Last five fights - Frank Mir:*


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## Ddog0587 (Jul 2, 2011)

Um. JDS is going to shatter Mir's jaw. If the small blows Nog tagged Mir put him down, the redic boxing of Cigano will put Mir asleep inside of 1. Junior via KO rd 1


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## Old school fan (Aug 24, 2011)

Bought the ppv just for this fight!
Go Cigano!


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Dos Santos should dominate. He is above and beyond a better striker and Mir's wrestling is nothing special. I think Dos Santos keeps this fight standing and finishes Mir.


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## Jags (Aug 7, 2010)

It's all about Mir getting this fight to the ground and if he can't then he is out simple as that for me but I dont know something is telling me Mir will get the sub on him.

I'm going with Mir sub to go against the grain.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Mir is an awesome fighter but he's also the first of multiple title defences for Junior, KO within two rounds.


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## rul3z (Jun 27, 2010)

R1 Ko Jds :d


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## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

If JDS loses, it could very well be the biggest upset recent MMA history.


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## Jags (Aug 7, 2010)

Purgetheweak said:


> If JDS loses, it could very well be the biggest upset recent MMA history.


Nah it wont be if you look at it this way.

JDS is the better striker than Mir for sure but Mir is by far the better guy on the ground so it's just two guys going in there with two diffrent styles.

If JDS has his back on the mat he is in HUGE trouble and if Mir is kept standing he is in HUGE trouble, as for the biggest upset... no


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

I'll admit this is JDS's fight to lose, but Mir's striking is always improving and his Submissions just get nastier. JDS can floor Mir no problem, but by no means should he be foolish enugh to follow Mir to the ground.

And I can see him making that mistake and Mir subbing JDS in the first round.


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## sg160187 (Apr 11, 2010)

Im pulling for Mir in this one. My head says JDS takes this via KO but my heart says Mir will pull something off. Just sucks that every loss Mir has had has been either TKO or KO and they don't hit much heavier than JDS...

May only be 1 loss but that came by Sub so every fight JDS has lost has been via Sub which is Mirs specialty.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I thought Frank was 260+. Anyways JDS is going to finish Mir within round 1. Either with a left counter as he's side stepping or a right cross set up by a stiff jab. Then as Mir is falling backwards he's gonna pound on em mid air then finish with Mir doing a face plant. That's what I see. I like Mir as a BJJ practitioner, but he does not do well against heavy hitters who have concussive power. JDS can land jabs all day that'll jar Mir and slow em down. This fight ends when JDS decides to engage.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Mir's only chance is to push JDS against the cage and try work for a takedown. If he can't, he will tire out and will get knocked the **** out.


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## ProdigyPenn (Sep 9, 2011)

I am big fan of both JDS and Mir. But I see JDS take this via KO in round 1. 

Mir only chances is to get this to the ground. But the question is what are the chances of Mir taking him down.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

I really like JDS, but for some reason, I really want Frank Mir to win the belt.

Great fight that is JDS's to lose.


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

Wow...no surprise JDS is a *huge* favorite in this fight. I am a big fan of both guys and while I think Mir is always dangerous especially on the ground, Junior will just be too much for him.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

Both great guys with opposite styles. I see JDS putting Mir's lights out within 1-2 rounds. I hate using MMA math, but Carwin took a beating of a lifetime against Cigano and only survived because of his huge heart. Carwin also blasted Mir against the fence and made quick work of him.

I see Mir wilting to the speed and power of JDS.


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## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

JDS by TKO. I have seen from the Lesnar and Carwin loss that Mir has a weakness for the uppercut (and Big Nog's left jab found a home straight in the middle). Mir tends to leave his guard open in the middle, I have a feeling that JDS is going to catch him with his patented vicious uppercut and that will be the beginning of the end for Mir.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Buakaw_GSP said:


> JDS by TKO. I have seen from the Lesnar and Carwin loss that Mir has a weakness for the uppercut (and Big Nog's left jab found a home straight in the middle). Mir tends to leave his guard open in the middle, I have a feeling that JDS is going to catch him with his patented vicious uppercut and that will be the beginning of the end for Mir.


Yeah I think the uppercut is the most likely kill shot.

Look for him to utilize an awkward left hook as well, Frank will expect a jab and get smashed on the side of the head. If Junior lands the uppercut off that it'll be rough times for Frank.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

JDS by succesfull headhunting.


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## boatoar (May 14, 2010)

Yeah, I too am not shocked by JDS being a significant favorite, but will never underestimate a hungry competitor. This would truly cement Mir's legacy as one of the greatest of all-time (he is already...but 3 championships looks even better), and he will be well-prepared. I still feel JDS is such a better striker, and that Mir will have a hard time getting the fight to the ground, so I'll say JDS by TKO late first/early second (despite my exact time prediction being different that I made in that contest earlier haha). 

I will; however, be greedy and place $10 on Mir to win $43 profit. The same $10 on JDS would win $2 profit, so to me it's a 21.5:1 underdog , even though that's not how it works. Just in terms of the difference for the same profit is staggering.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

I wouldn't sleep on Mir that dude pulls out wins everyone thinks he will lose even Chuck was beaten in his prime so you never know.


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## malice (Sep 28, 2007)

I think JDS will win, but i just saw the lines at -550 for dos santos which is a bit high imo. There would prob be good value on betting on mir considering if he takes it to the ground he has a decent shot.


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## BigPont (Nov 19, 2007)

I hope Mir wins since everyone hates him. Meltdown would be epic.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Everything on JDS.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Night night Franky.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Mir entering with Amazing like a baws.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I feel kinda bad for frank. Probably gonna feel even worse for him in just a bit.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

I love both of these guys. Best heavyweight submission artist vs best heavyweight knockout artist.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Anyone have an idea behind the significance behind his shirt? UFC 93... He wasn't even on that card. Don't know if he's sponsored by the UFC, but thats a pretty weird walkout shirt.


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## rallyman (Mar 15, 2010)

well i hope we get to see what jds has on the ground.

if its stays on the feet frank is going to sleep


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

What kind of fools boo JDS? He's MMAs nice guy, FFS.

JDS looks pissed! Mir is toast.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> *JDS looks pissed!* Mir is toast.


My thoughts exactly.


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## AmEagle (Jun 13, 2007)

Don't think Mir will last long in this one.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Brock in the house!


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I hope frank doesn't just get straight owned in seconds.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Brock should be in Mirs corner not in the stands:thumbsup:


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Frank is hanging in there :thumbsup:


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Mir had his dancin' legs on


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

if JDS finishes this quick in the 2nd it's exactly as I predicted in that win a shit load of creds thread :thumb02:


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## rallyman (Mar 15, 2010)

hit the middle one frank


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Frank is badly outsped here. He needs to pull guard or something....pull a Werdum.


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## BigPont (Nov 19, 2007)

This won't end well.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Mir gets KO'ed in the second!


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Target: LOCKED!...PROCEED TO KILL!


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

AJClark said:


> if JDS finishes this quick in the 2nd it's exactly as I predicted in that win a shit load of creds thread :thumb02:


Haha, same. War Junior!


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

JDS is playing it smart, trying to extend the rounds a bit to tire Frank. TKO in 2nd or early 3rd.


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

called it :thumbsup:


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Horrible stoppage.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

That was easy.

Who's next?


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Yeah, Mir needs to retire >_>

Dos Santos has some killer power but once Frank's bell is rung he's done. He has no recoverability any more.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Did that asshole really say no to letting the kid in the cage?


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

Modern day chuck liddell wow too easy.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

At first it looked like Frank was playing possum a la Werdum.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

DragonStriker said:


> Modern day chuck liddell wow too easy.


Chuck was nowhere near Junior's level, sorry. Chuck had a big, booming overhand right and some impeccable timing, but Junior is ten times the striker he ever was IMO.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Horrible stoppage.


Agreed I don't understand the rationale for it he was defending.


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## Abrissbirne (Jul 4, 2010)

I expected this and iam relieved 
Was scared Mir would get him down somehow 

Anyway Cain vs Mir would be fun, Cain would destroy him so badly wow^^


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> Chuck was nowhere near Junior's level, sorry. Chuck had a big, booming overhand right and some impeccable timing, but Junior is ten times the striker he ever was IMO.


Same thing lol.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> Chuck was nowhere near Junior's level, sorry. Chuck had a big, booming overhand right and some impeccable timing, but Junior is ten times the striker he ever was IMO.


Agreed, JDS is also facing higher quality opponents, where as I believe Chuck had a easy title reign in the UFC. If Rampage or Shogun were in the UFC instead of Pride while Chuck was KO'ing people left and right in the UFC, theres no way he would hold the title as long as he did.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Breno is happy!

That's the only thing that counts.



Roflcopter said:


> Horrible stoppage.


.....if you wanna see a death in the cage...agreed.


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

bullshit stoppage, yes frank was losing but in no way should that of been stopped


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I wish Joe would shut up with the whole mentor-grudge thing already. How many times can he say it isn't like that?

I knew the outcome yet it still affected me.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Cain/Junior has to happen. I can't see a perfect shot in the first couple seconds happening again.


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## madrappa (Dec 8, 2009)

junior is the most likeable guy ever.... he made me all giddy in the post fight interview

he has CRAZY boxing.... like he could probably do well in the HW boxing division, and he has ineffable takedown defense... 

who beats him? overeem i dont think so at this point. cain looked good tonight i still think he's 2nd best, but idk if i ever see him beating junior


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

TraMaI said:


> Yeah, Mir needs to retire >_>
> 
> Dos Santos has some killer power but once Frank's bell is rung he's done. He has no recoverability any more.


.......

DID YOU NOT WATCH HIS LAST FIGHT?


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Mir doesn't need to retire just yet. 

I thought the fight was stopped a tad early, but it wasn't going to get any better for Mir. I'm not against Herb stepping in and saving Frank further brain damage. But that's just me.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Let's stop playing on easy and move on to Alistair Overeem now. Cain can't have a rematch yet, how are they going to market it? 

"Cain lost via KO in a minute, got injured and defeated a guy who was coming off a loss and now his better than ever."


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## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

Lesnar would have been happy. 

Mir lost and his diverticulitis stopped him from getting KTFO by JDS.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Frank was rolling around on the ground and he took awhile to get up afterwards. I think the stoppage was fine.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

box said:


> Cain/Junior has to happen. I can't see a perfect shot in the first couple seconds happening again.


Seriously? Cain shot in for a takedown almost instantly and got totally stuffed, then JDS did what he does and picked him apart and landed a huge shot. The same exact thing would happen in a rematch. Cain can't take Junior down, and he can't stand with him. It's just a bad style match up for Cain.


Wasn't an early stoppage IMO, the last hammerfist sent Mir into a totally balled up fetal position, he was done fighting, period.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

M_D said:


> bullshit stoppage, yes frank was losing but in no way should that of been stopped


Yeah, maybe the ref should've let Mir get pounded on till he's out cold, then pounded on some more for good measure like he was against Carwin.

I'd agree that it was a bit of an early stoppage considering how many times Mir has pulled a rabbit out of his ass, but at some point you do have to consider the safety of the fighter. As much as I'd like to see Mir get pounded out cold again or somehow pull off a miracle win, I can't really disagree too much with when the fight was called. Maybe another couple punches or a few more seconds, but that's about it.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Awesome performance from Junior, saved the finish for the 2nd round like I thought.

Beautiful straight right that dropped Mir, it was a good stoppage. Mir tried to roll Junior but was so wobbly, Junior smartly jumped back and Mir was on his back seeing stars. BOOM hammerfist comes down like an actual sledgehammer... Thats game over with guys this size IMO.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Rauno said:


> Let's stop playing on easy and move on to Alistair Overeem now. Cain can't have a rematch yet, how are they going to market it?
> 
> "Cain lost via KO in a minute, got injured and defeated a guy who was coming off a loss and now his better than ever."


Don't think dos Santos and the UFC want to wait until December for a guy whose Heavyweight run is basically tarnished. Not to mention Dana won't even talk about him.


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## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

JDS with dynamite in his hands. I wouldn't mind a rematch with Cain. Might actually get that entertaining fight we thought we would get the first time.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Don't think dos Santos and the UFC want to wait until December for a guy whose Heavyweight run is basically tarnished. Not to mention Dana won't even talk about him.


If my memory serves me right, DW forgot about Sonnen during his break as well. The fact that Overeem is still employed by ZUFFA says it all imo. His just too valuable to let go after this.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Rauno said:


> If my memory serves me right, DW forgot about Sonnen during his break as well. The fact that Overeem is still employed by ZUFFA says it all imo. His just too valuable to let go after this.


I don't ever remember Dana flat out refusing to talk about Chael though. Regardless, Junior should be able to go by October unless he fucked something up and I'm thinking we'll get a Velasquez rematch. I'd like to see Cain fight someone else though first because a dos Santos/Velasquez 2 doesn't interest me at the moment.

Junior doesn't have anyone else left to fight, I think it's total bullshit Cormier has to do a plus one fight.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I agree with the stoppage. Mir was getting worked and it wasn't the first time he was rocked. I think we would have just seen him get a longer beatdown had the ref not stepped in after the hammerfist.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

No_Mercy said:


> I thought Frank was 260+. Anyways JDS is going to finish Mir within round 1. Either with a left counter as he's side stepping or a *right cross set up *by a stiff jab. Then as *Mir is falling backwards *he's gonna pound on em mid air then finish with Mir doing a face plant. That's what I see. I like Mir as a BJJ practitioner, but he does not do well against heavy hitters who have concussive power. JDS can land jabs all day that'll jar Mir and slow em down. This fight ends when JDS decides to engage.


Woot! Should have changed it to 2nd round once JDS claimed 2nd round TKO himself although if he had more time in the first it could have been over. 

Hahah...this is one of those fights where I could see the outcome, but hats off to Frank playing JDS' game. He had no choice. JDS has excellent footwork, movement, and timing. 

Cain is the one to watch out for. Mir vs Bigfoot and Cain vs Carwin now. 



RustyRenegade said:


> Brock should be in Mirs corner not in the stands:thumbsup:


That would be the day...lolz! I wonder what Brock's reaction was during and after the bout. I could see him smirking...


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I was wondering why in the world Mir just kept trying to strike. He got denied the first takedown but then pretty much abandoned that gameplan and went to the punching bag gameplan.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> I don't ever remember Dana flat out refusing to talk about Chael though. Regardless, Junior should be able to go by October unless he fucked something up and I'm thinking we'll get a Velasquez rematch. I'd like to see Cain fight someone else though first because a dos Santos/Velasquez 2 doesn't interest me at the moment.
> 
> Junior doesn't have anyone else left to fight, I think it's total bullshit Cormier has to do a plus one fight.


Yes, it's bullshit that people are obligated to the contracts they sign.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

Good stoppage in my mind. JDS stepped out and Mir was on his back facing the wrong way about to eat 10 more of those hammer fists.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I was wondering why in the world Mir just kept trying to strike. He got denied the first takedown but then pretty much abandoned that gameplan and went to the punching bag gameplan.


He was forced to be a punching bag. JDS isnt sucessful purely because of his striking, its because he makes opponents strike with him.

This fight was won in the first 30 seconds. Frank knew he couldnt stand with JDS, so he clinched immediately. JDS scrambled out unscathed, with little sweat to aid him, puts the fight back where he wants it.

Frank would have been thinking one of two things. 'Hard to catch, but I'll get you eventually' or 'Too bad, looks like I'll have to stand with him'. By the way he fought from then on, I'd say he thought the latter, and so he's immediately lost confidence in his best way to win.

Meanwhile, JDS has a huge confidence boost because he avoided Frank's A-game while they were fresh, he knew what he was dealing with and could relax early on.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Too bad Mir just didn't try to freight train him and get this one on the ground desperately. It's not like he was doing better standing up.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Rauno said:


> Too bad Mir just didn't try to freight train him and get this one on the ground desperately. It's not like he was doing better standing up.



Did you see the first 20 seconds? That is what happened. Then Mir was afraid of getting caught while rushing in. Maybe he bought his own hype and thought he could Kongo him.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

SM33 said:


> He was forced to be a punching bag. JDS isnt sucessful purely because of his striking, its because he makes opponents strike with him.
> 
> This fight was won in the first 30 seconds. Frank knew he couldnt stand with JDS, so he clinched immediately. JDS scrambled out unscathed, with little sweat to aid him, puts the fight back where he wants it.
> 
> ...


I didn't think Mir could takedown JDS anyway, I was just surprised to see him abandon the takedowns so early. I kind of thought he would pull guard or something after a few failed attempts. But man JDS is just a flat out awesome fighter.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Did anyone else catch that finger wag after JDS stuffed Mir's single? Gonna have to make a gif of that.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Sports_Nerd said:


> Did anyone else catch that finger wag after JDS stuffed Mir's single? Gonna have to make a gif of that.


Another tactic to make Mir stand with him. Beating the mind makes beating the body so much easier.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

That is nicely put.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Did you see the first 20 seconds? That is what happened. Then Mir was afraid of getting caught while rushing in. Maybe he bought his own hype and thought he could Kongo him.


That's what i wanted him to do more. He wasn't exactly blocking those shots from a distance anyway. Better get hit while trying to do something useful than just trade with JDS knowing you won't have anything to offer anyway.


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## Andrus (Oct 18, 2011)

> Not bad for a good guy, huh?


I was so happy about the result. Love Cigano!


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Who is the guy to beat Dos Santos? Some people will say Overeem, but I think that Dos Santos is a faster striker, which could make the difference. I'd pick Junior to win that fight.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Rauno said:


> That's what i wanted him to do more. He wasn't exactly blocking those shots from a distance anyway. Better get hit while trying to do something useful than just trade with JDS knowing you won't have anything to offer anyway.


I think JDS breaks peoples confidence really. The smart career move would have been to block and rush in. But maybe Mirs primal fear of getting hurt kept him at bay?


The finger wag was awesome. "Im not going to the ground with you, we will fight where I choose to fight" basically.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Props to Junior, but Frank goes in for a takedown, gets close to getting one, goes for an ankle lock and then never goes for another takedown. That is amateur, a rookie mistake. Boggles my mind sometimes how a ground fighter will stand in front of a world class striker, just stand there. He didn't circle, he didn't move, he just stood there. Then his corner doesn't even give him good advice, I don't get it, feels like it was a rigged fight or I am crazy. For Frank's corner not to say "go for takedowns, don't stop going for them" is beyond belief. This is their career and they can't even figure out the basics of mma.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

rabakill said:


> Props to Junior, but Frank goes in for a takedown, gets close to getting one, goes for an ankle lock and then never goes for another takedown. That is amateur, a rookie mistake. Boggles my mind sometimes how a ground fighter will stand in front of a world class striker, just stand there. He didn't circle, he didn't move, he just stood there. Then his corner doesn't even give him good advice, I don't get it, feels like it was a rigged fight or I am crazy. For Frank's corner not to say "go for takedowns, don't stop going for them" is beyond belief. This is their career and they can't even figure out the basics of mma.


I think there's a LOT more to this though. It seems like this but i seriously doubt that an intelligent veteran like Mir wouldn't know what to do in the cage. I guess you really have to be in there to truly realise everything.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Frank Mir is from the old school, he fights on instinct and does well at capitalizing on openings when he gets them, but his fight strategy and ability to adjust when things aren't working just isn't there. Put it this way, this is the genius who decided to hang out in the clinch with Carwin and get punished instead of keeping the range open and using his reach to pick him apart. His gameplans...need some work...and that's been generous.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Mir did not decide to 'hang out in the clinch with Carwin', Carwin forced him to the fence and killed him.

He did not decide to just stand in front of Junior, he was given no choice. JDS moves and counters too well, Frank knew that sloppy takedown attempts would get him hurt. He had no choice but to box with JDS and try to create good clinch/takedown opportunities, but JDS is too good for Mir's sensible approach as well.

Sure, Frank could have repeatedly tried to grab Junior with no real strategy, but after seeing him fail to do it the correct(usually more successful) way... It would have just got him knocked out sooner.

Mir didn't do a lot wrong, he was just outclassed.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

In the Carwin fight, sure, he got pushed to the fence but once there he made little effort to get loose and open the range. He didn't really try to push off, pummel under, spin off the fence, or do much else other than wave at his corner and go "I'm ok" while trying to hold onto Carwin's hands.

In the JDS I'd agree that he was forced to stand & trade and there wasn't too much else that he could've done. He could've tried for an ankle pick or thrown combos off the leg kicks. Chances are he'd get countered anyway and still lose but at least it wouldn't look quite so lopsided.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Rauno said:


> I think there's a LOT more to this though. It seems like this but i seriously doubt that an intelligent veteran like Mir wouldn't know what to do in the cage. I guess you really have to be in there to truly realise everything.


I disagree, this is day one kind of stuff. You are in against the best boxer in the division and you stand flatfooted in front of him. That's like diving into Maia's guard or testing your thai clinch skills against Anderson Silva. The worst part of it is he even almost had a takedown, but instead of doing things intelligently and tying up Junior when he was fighting it Frank falls down and goes for an ankle lock. 

Saying he would have gotten knocked out sooner is counterintuitive, had Frank gone for takedowns relentlessly he would have increased his chances of winning from 0%. You don't have to be in the cage to know that you don't stand flatfooted in front of JDS. It's the exact same how Bisping was circling to the left against Hendo, when a fighter has one major weapon you don't put yourself in prime position for him to utilize it. Yeah generally you are supposed to set up takedowns with punches, but in a case like this it doesn't matter, Junior knew frank's only chance was a takedown. It's the exact same as when Lesnar stood in front of Overeem. Chael Sonnen knows what I mean, you put your head down and charge through the guy if the opponent is a better striker. Maybe he'll hurt you coming in but atleast there's a chance of winning instead of just waiting to get knocked out.

I don't buy that he was forced to stand and trade, trying for a takedown, almost getting one then going for an ankle lock like a moron is not the same as being forced to stand. GSP forces people to stand, Carwin forced Lesnar to stand, Cain forced lesnar to stand, JDS shook off one half-assed takedown in the first minute of a fight, that is not forcing someone to stand.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

rabakill said:


> I disagree, this is day one kind of stuff. You are in against the best boxer in the division and you stand flatfooted in front of him. That's like diving into Maia's guard or testing your thai clinch skills against Anderson Silva. The worst part of it is he even almost had a takedown, but instead of doing things intelligently and tying up Junior when he was fighting it Frank falls down and goes for an ankle lock.
> 
> Saying he would have gotten knocked out sooner is counterintuitive, had Frank gone for takedowns relentlessly he would have increased his chances of winning from 0%. You don't have to be in the cage to know that you don't stand flatfooted in front of JDS. It's the exact same how Bisping was circling to the left against Hendo, when a fighter has one major weapon you don't put yourself in prime position for him to utilize it. Yeah generally you are supposed to set up takedowns with punches, but in a case like this it doesn't matter, Junior knew frank's only chance was a takedown. It's the exact same as when Lesnar stood in front of Overeem. Chael Sonnen knows what I mean, you put your head down and charge through the guy if the opponent is a better striker. Maybe he'll hurt you coming in but atleast there's a chance of winning instead of just waiting to get knocked out.
> 
> I don't buy that he was forced to stand and trade, trying for a takedown, almost getting one then going for an ankle lock like a moron is not the same as being forced to stand. GSP forces people to stand, Carwin forced Lesnar to stand, Cain forced lesnar to stand, JDS shook off one half-assed takedown in the first minute of a fight, that is not forcing someone to stand.


Mir immediately got hold of JDS at the start of the fight, his intention was obvious. One of the best grapplers in the division had JDS on the cage, holding one leg in the air, and JDS defended and escaped on one foot. That is a massive statement and the reason Mir fought the way he did the rest of the fight.

Just watch Frank's post fight comments, that failed ankle lock crushed his confidence and it was the last time JDS allowed him to get anywhere near a clinch.


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## Tiptup (Mar 12, 2012)

Did anyone else see Frank Mir wobble from punches that didn't connect? He was definitely trying to look stunned have Dos Sos jump on him and then look for subs. Problem was Cigs then caught him for real.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

SM33 said:


> Mir immediately got hold of JDS at the start of the fight, his intention was obvious. One of the best grapplers in the division had JDS on the cage, holding one leg in the air, and JDS defended and escaped on one foot. That is a massive statement and the reason Mir fought the way he did the rest of the fight.
> 
> Just watch Frank's post fight comments, that failed ankle lock crushed his confidence and it was the last time JDS allowed him to get anywhere near a clinch.


The fact that:

a) he went for an ankle lock instead of tying up Junior
b) he never tried for another takedown

is what is so bad. Just because you can't get the takedown on the first try doesn't mean you stop trying, that's like saying if you shoot on a goalie in hockey and he stops it you just stop shooting the puck because there's no point in trying anymore. 

I really feel you guys are way off the mark and Mir's performance was beyond abysmal, it happens every once in a while where a fighter plays into the other guys hands purely because of stupidity. When Bisping was circling to his left against Hendo it was the same thing, stupid. Okami is standing in front of Silva trying to outjab him and I'm screaming stop being such a moron, yes I get that things unravel differently in the cage but these guys train for months and then completely abandon a gameplan. The idea that it's to Junior's credit that Frank didn't get him to the ground is misfounded, while yes Junior has great TDD fighting off one half-assed takedown attempt that resulted in a moronic attempt at an ankle lock did not premier any of Junior's skills (which he obviously possesses). Had Frank been trying and trying then Junior knocked him out then I would agree whole-heartedly, but Frank literally handed the fight to Junior on a silver platter. I didn't even think Junior looked that good, Frank just fought like a complete amateur to the sport, where is it written that when one takedown gets blocked you just stand there for the rest of the fight?

and if you want to neg rep me and insult me fine, but please come up with a logical response when I don't agree with you. If I were the worst poster on this forum I would have been banned and if I were completely ignorant in regards to mma I wouldn't have won thousands betting on it. I respect your right to have an opinion, please respect mine.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

I'd rather believe that a former Champ on a three fight win streak was outclassed and demoralized, than accuse him of fighting like an amateur and looking abysmal.

And I haven't given you neg rep.


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