# Alistair Overeem overrated?



## Suarez-PSL (Mar 16, 2011)

Ive been hearing alot of hype over this guy. "Hes a beast" "Hes unstopable" No doubt hes done alot elsewhere but I really dont see him making all that much of an impact if he ever actually come over to the UFC. The only person that hes beat worth mentioning is Fabricio Werdum. What do you guys think?


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

1. Wrong Forum

2. If you are hearing Overeem is unstoppable you may want to seek the advice of a medical professional. As you clearly either hearing voices in your head that aren't there or seeing things that don't exist.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

John8204 said:


> 1. Wrong Forum
> 
> 2. If you are hearing Overeem is unstoppable you may want to seek the advice of a medical professional. As you clearly either hearing voices in your head that aren't there or seeing things that don't exist.


Lolz ---> #2. That's a bit harsh. 

My answer is no (he's a champ in three different orgs), but guess we'll have to see em against Big Foot.


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## Suarez-PSL (Mar 16, 2011)

John8204 said:


> 1. Wrong Forum
> 
> 2. If you are hearing Overeem is unstoppable you may want to seek the advice of a medical professional. As you clearly either hearing voices in your head that aren't there or seeing things that don't exist.


 1.Im sorry if I posted in the wrong forum. I was trying to start a discussion on how Overeem would do if he came to the UFC. 

2. You dont have to insult me. Theres no need for it.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

It depends on who you ask really. The Reem supporters believe his last fight was just an off night and his detractors think it was a sign of things to come. 

Personally, after the last fight I don't think he'll be a UFC champion. Especially after the merger happens. Top 3-5 at best and 7-9 at worst would be my guess.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Hey the reem is a beast, don't let his last fight fool you. Until he loses the strikeforce belt then we can judge. As it stands ring now his size and skills puts him above the rest. The man did have a long lay off from the change, he did not lose. Yes it was a bad performance but at the end of the day everyone is entitle to one of those matches. Before the werdum fight he was destroying everybody. If he does have another bad performance against big foot then i would say he is overrated, but as of right now he is a beast and easily a top 3 hw in the world.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

I've always thought he's dangerous, but until he starts fighting the top guys again (he lost to them before) i'll reserve judgment. The thing that worries me with him is that he stands in front of strikes like he doesn't care, thats hurt him before, and when he fights these young bucks who run the UFC, it's different than the older/second tier guys he's been facing.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

box said:


> I've always thought he's dangerous, but until he starts fighting the top guys again (he lost to them before) i'll reserve judgment. The thing that worries me with him is that he stands in front of strikes like he doesn't care, thats hurt him before, and when he fights these young bucks who run the UFC, it's different than the older/second tier guys he's been facing.


i agree it did hurt him before but in his own words the difference from before and now is 40 pounds of muscles or so. That kind of shit will make any man feel invincible.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Suarez-PSL said:


> 2. You dont have to insult me. Theres no need for it.


I don't mean to insult you, but to me this topic is trolling on several fronts.

To begin with this is hardly an original thought. Next to Brock Lesnar and maybe Frank Mir, Overeem is the most disrespected and scrutinized HW on the internet. To take the common line of thinking and then profess the opposite point of view claiming the people are calling him unstoppable is ridiculous. 

I apologize if you took offense, had this popped up in the right forum I wouldn't have gotten angry. But I feel like this is a transparent flame baiting thread and I really don't like it.


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## Coq de Combat (Sep 17, 2007)

He is a beast. But if anyone says he's unstoppable, don't take it seriously, and don't think all Alistair fans think so. I'm a huge Alistair fan, but thinking he's unstoppable and demi-god is blatantly wrong.

He's a good to great fighter, and he's almost always very exciting to watch. Why can't we leave it at that?

Rankings are IMO pretty retarded in the first place. Rankings work with soccer, hockey and other sports where the guys face off against all other teams several times. That's when it works. Rankings in a sport where a fighter fights maybe against 1-5% of the total of contestants, there's really no way to tell if a fighter should be ranked 1, 4, 5 or even 7, based on his skills and the skills of his foes. Simply put, rankings are fun to look at and debate, but there's really no rock solid foundation for them.



John8204 said:


> I don't mean to insult you, but to me this topic is trolling on several fronts.
> 
> To begin with this is hardly an original thought. Next to Brock Lesnar and maybe Frank Mir, Overeem is the most disrespected and scrutinized HW on the internet. To take the common line of thinking and then profess the opposite point of view claiming the people are calling him unstoppable is ridiculous.
> 
> I apologize if you took offense, had this popped up in the right forum I wouldn't have gotten angry. But I feel like this is a transparent flame baiting thread and I really don't like it.


I'm kind of agreeing here. Not about the posting in the wrong forum (people can make honest mistakes), but about the part that Alistair is one of the more hated MMA fighters out there. Apart from a small Alistair war wagon thread on Sherdog, the majority of the topics I have seen about him (from MMA fans) is hate or some kind of underrating based on _overrating._ Overrating that's very rare.

I've seen more people writing him off with things like "He'd never make it in the UFC" or "He's just a can smasher - look at his record, he hasn't beaten anyone yet", than I've seen people hyping him off the roof.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

He might have been a bit overrated but come on, a champ in SF and Dream, K-1 GP winner, anybody would be overrated with such accolades. 

That Werdum fight was a bad way for us to see his skills IMO, Bigfoot is a good test and there's no doubt in my mind that Overeem is going to KO him. A LHW in Mike Kyle brutally dropped Silva, once Overeem connects taht cleanly he ain't getting up.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

The winner of Silva/Overeem is locked in as the third best fighter in the world....but even then since when is being ranked third "unstoppable" Are Jim Miller and Yushin Okami unstoppable monsters?


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Suarez-PSL said:


> Ive been hearing alot of hype over this guy. "Hes a beast" "Hes unstopable" No doubt hes done alot elsewhere but I really dont see him making all that much of an impact if he ever actually come over to the UFC. The only person that hes beat worth mentioning is Fabricio Werdum. What do you guys think?


You should watch his older fights, K-1, Pride and watch his more recent ones. He's vastly improved with his new found muscle 2.0 enhancing his skills giving him more KO power and able to throw around grapplers. He is the most improved MMA fighter out there. He wanted to fight Fedor who was touted as the #1 fighter at the time and rightfully so before he lost to Werdum. He also asked for a rematch with Werdum and has openly stated that he wants to fight in the UFC. Win or lose against Big Foot, Overeem is the BEST striker in the HW division bar none. I don't believe he's over rated, however in general he is still below quite a few of the UFC HW fighters simply because of the depth of the division and the brand name of the organization. His fight vs Big Foot is going to answer a lot of questions though. 

Usually one equates someone who's fought and won a couple of matches as overrated; Sokoudjou, Dan Hardy, Gilbert Yvel, Gabriel Gonzaga, etc. The crowd and media hyped them to no avail. Look at their records and career trajectory now. 

Can't wait to see the UFC absorb the entire SF HW roster. That will single handedly shake up the entire division. Why? Cuz the top guys can match the UFC top fighters.

1.) Fedor
2.) Overeem
3.) Barnett
4.) Big Foot
5.) Sergei

Then you got tons of fun matchups. 

Arlovski vs Kongo 
Rogers vs Carwin 
Werdum vs Mir


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> Werdum vs Mir


That's a fight i'd love to see. Especially on the ground.


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## Suarez-PSL (Mar 16, 2011)

John8204 said:


> I don't mean to insult you, but to me this topic is trolling on several fronts.
> 
> To begin with this is hardly an original thought. Next to Brock Lesnar and maybe Frank Mir, Overeem is the most disrespected and scrutinized HW on the internet. To take the common line of thinking and then profess the opposite point of view claiming the people are calling him unstoppable is ridiculous.
> 
> I apologize if you took offense, had this popped up in the right forum I wouldn't have gotten angry. But I feel like this is a transparent flame baiting thread and I really don't like it.


 Im sorry I didnt mean to make you angry. Im relatively new to the MMA world. I wasnt trying to troll or make a flame baiting thread. 

As for the infamous "Unstopable" line. I heard that from a few friends who are avid fight fans. I didnt make it up for the sake of making a thread. Im sorry you thought so.


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## Hexabob69 (Nov 8, 2008)

Regardless of how he is "Rated", lacking last fight he is always, Always entertaining to watch. Generally he is well spoken, and seems to have a good head on his shoulders. Some organizations need to ride on the backs of some fighters, and if I were an upstarting organization, there are not many better to pick for your poster child.

Just my 2 cents

Dan


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

Well the saying "you're only as good as your last fight" has never been so evident. Overeem's an absolute crusher - however from the Werdum fight, it's obvious that when there's a threat of the TD - he really focuses on it and this really affects his striking. That really means he doesn't have much chance against the top guys like Cain.

However against pure strikers like JDS, Kongo, Barry etc. I see him shining (although JDS may have even better striking than K1 Overeem and can now threaten with the TD also).


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Indestructibl3 said:


> Well the saying "you're only as good as your last fight" has never been so evident. Overeem's an absolute crusher - however from the Werdum fight, it's obvious that when there's a threat of the TD - he really focuses on it and this really affects his striking. That really means he doesn't have much chance against the top guys like Cain.
> 
> However against pure strikers like JDS, Kongo, Barry etc. I see him shining (although JDS may have even better striking than K1 Overeem and can now threaten with the TD also).


He would just be going for Guillotines on most guys. Werdum is a different kind of animal from every other HW on the ground you can't use him as the standard for how Overeem will fight against wrestlers he is far better at BJJ than.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Rauno said:


> He might have been a bit overrated but come on, a champ in SF and Dream, K-1 GP winner, anybody would be overrated with such accolades.
> 
> That Werdum fight was a bad way for us to see his skills IMO, Bigfoot is a good test and there's no doubt in my mind that Overeem is going to KO him. A LHW in Mike Kyle brutally dropped Silva, once Overeem connects taht cleanly he ain't getting up.



My favorite MMAF poster using MMAmath. 



Overeem is a lot like Mousasi. Put him in K-1, he's the best striker in the division. Put him against B-level cans, he looks better than anyone else (hell Mousasi owned O'Brien in seconds and O'Brien took a round from Jon Jones, Mousasi and Overeem both submitted Hunt instantly, etc)... but would they be top 3 in the UFC? No.


Not saying they couldn't be, but if Overeem fought Cain/JDS/Mir/Carwin I wouldn't give him a huge chance right now and I wouldn't doubt seeing him get dropped by Sergei if they fight and I wouldn't be surprised to see him controlled on the ground by Barnett either. Bigfoot will probably do just fine standing against him as well.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Is Overeem overrated? Yes IMO he is but thats not to say he's a suck fighter.




khoveraki said:


> My favorite MMAF poster using MMAmath.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have no faith in bigfoots striking against Overeem, Reem is a solid fighter that can be competitive against anyone, IMO bigfoot is not.

The rest of your post I totally agree with, id rep you again if I could but I dont give alot out so lol I need to spread some around first.:thumb02:


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

I'd also like to add quick that Golden Glory is probably the best striking camp in the entire world, for _kickboxing._


But look at Jon Olav Einemo, Overeem, Schilt. Einemo has been at Golden Glory for years now and he just got schooled standing by a kid from a wrestling gym (Quest). Overeem just got visibly outstruck by a BJJ guy. 


I'm really nervous for Gokhan Saki's MMA debut because I don't want him getting knocked out by some wrestler or something. It's been discussed a million times before, if your striking training doesn't encompass the threat of the TD, the 4oz gloves, and cage tactics then it won't translate to MMA period and the guys at Golden Glory just don't seem to be training for MMA.


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## beardsleybob (Jan 3, 2010)

To be fair though your KO power must increase when using smaller gloves. If you can KO somebody with those balloons you call K1 gloves then MMA gloves must do a fair but of damage. Course accuracy needs tweaking when you've got smaller fists. But the added agility and grip for the clinch must tilt it into his favour. But you're right about the TD point and cage.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> I'd also like to add quick that Golden Glory is probably the best striking camp in the entire world, for _kickboxing._
> 
> 
> But look at Jon Olav Einemo, Overeem, Schilt. Einemo has been at Golden Glory for years now and he just got schooled standing by a kid from a wrestling gym (Quest). Overeem just got visibly outstruck by a BJJ guy.
> ...


Einemo was winning the vast majority of that fight standing and he looked much improved striking. He also had some really serious leg injuries didn't he that is going to greatly lower your ceiling as a striker. 

Overeem didn't get out struck by Werdum. Werdum didn't win a single exchange because he refused to exchange strikes at any point. Overeem forced him into throwing a bunch of weak hand flipping straights that were mostly grazing or fully blocked and then Werdum fled in terror anytime Overeem threw a strike at him. I counted one significant strike for Werdum in that entire fight Overeem landed over 20 even with Werdum's bullshit tactics.

Gokhan is an intelligent striker and far better technically than everyone else you mentioned I don't think he gets KOed standing by anyone who isn't very good at striking. If a wrestler KOs him it will be from GNP. If someone who isn't of high caliber stands with him they will be crippled within a round by his leg kicks so the window for your nightmare scenario to happen is pretty small. 

I am not sure what weight class Gokhan is fighting at but it is probably LHW and in strikeforce that division is pretty weak. As far as wrestlers who could possibly KO him go it isn't like he is going to be fighting Rashad, Rampage, and Bones. King Mo would get destroyed standing and Hendo probably would too just because he is so much slower and predictable nowadays. It isn't like they would put him against either of those guys immediately also. He will probably be fighting cans or near cans. It would be funny/sad if they put him against Walker. His knees are already completely gone he might never walk again if that happens.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

The one thing we can agree on osmium is that Gokhan is a monster. I don't think he could ever be outstruck in MMA but I keep seeing Randleman vs. CroCop. Gokhan vs. Walker would be really hard to watch and I'd probably protest it if the commission would even clear it.


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> Hey the reem is a beast, don't let his last fight fool you. Until he loses the strikeforce belt then we can judge. As it stands ring now his size and skills puts him above the rest. The man did have a long lay off from the change, he did not lose. Yes it was a bad performance but at the end of the day everyone is entitle to one of those matches. Before the werdum fight he was *destroying everybody*. If he does have another bad performance against big foot then i would say he is overrated, but as of right now he is a beast and easily a top 3 hw in the world.


 See, the key words are in bold here. I think we actually can start to judge him now, because when 'destroying everybody' consists of guys like Fujita, and James frickign Thompson, I don't give that much weight.

It's true, I'm not writing him off because of one fight, anyone can have an off night. But Werdum is his first real test in literally years, and all his real tests before that, he lost. He lost to Kharitonov, to Rua, to Nogeira, to Arona, he beats guys like Gary Goodridge, and Todd Duffee.

To be an elite fighter, you have to beat elite fighters, Overeem has not done that at all. There is no way I put him top three now. I used to think he might be, but no way after that fight, he gets blown away by the top 3 in the UFC IMO. If he shows up and blows Bigfoot away with a big time KO or TKO, ok, its on, but I have a very hard time imagining that after the Werdum fight. I'll be watching his next fight with interest.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

Rauno said:


> *He might have been a bit overrated but come on, a champ in SF and Dream, K-1 GP winner, anybody would be overrated with such accolades.*
> 
> That Werdum fight was a bad way for us to see his skills IMO, Bigfoot is a good test and there's no doubt in my mind that Overeem is going to KO him. A LHW in Mike Kyle brutally dropped Silva, once Overeem connects taht cleanly he ain't getting up.


It is when the HW division in those organizations are as deep as the kiddie pool! When he won that title in Strikeforce their HW division was thin. Now that its pretty decent he has let to defend it!


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)




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