# Characters - Rashad Evans: "Greg Jackson trained Jon Jones against my wishes!"



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

*Characters - Rashad Evans: "Greg Jackson trained Jon Jones against my wishes!"*

There are million of threads about Jones already.
This one is more intended on analysing one man's character: Mr. Rashad Evans.

Being *the thinker and psychologist* that i am and staying true to my nature, i made this:



> @Sam_Blackburn I will not use Greg ever again.. *I really haven't used him *in a while anyways.. In my last 2 fights I trained with him 5x's.. ...


1. The way he says: "i haven't really used him" denotes a big lack of respect towards Jackson, who was his coach for a pretty long time, afterall. 
It's like he talks about an old tooth brush or an old pair of shoes.
Martial Arts stand for *honor, respect and integrity*. Everyone who trains in some kind of martial Arts knows this.
I fail to detect these features in Rashad's comments.

2. If he really "hasn't used" Jackson that much in the last year, why is he upset?! Where's the problem?! 
Talking the way he did, it's like he didn't need Jackson all that time. If he needed him he would "have used" hime more, right?! 
So..."why so serious" Rashad?!



> @danstrandberg so I decided 2 leave Greg because I felt like he didn't have *my best interest* anymore. *Greg is not the same coach he use 2 b*


If "he used" Jackson only 5 times in 15 months, how can he tell if he is or not the same coach.
He walks away from the team and his coach - for a long time - and then he calls his coach "not the same".
He should ask himself this question: "am *I* the same?!"
Sounds like a "hypocrit" to me.

The part about: "my best interest" - I agree that a fighter should alway look out for *his* best interest: trying to make everything to be the best, win titles, money, fame...whateva, in order to make a good life for himself or his family.
But i think Evans has Jackson mistaken for his manager.
Jackson has a business to run. And it's not his alone. He has an associate. Together they have this gym where a lot of world class fighters train.
He tries to look out for everyone's best interest, but in this case it's a conflict of interests.
And Jackson said he won't take sides in this battle.




> @pirushaccy no worries the fans r always like 2 me! But then they wait hrs 4 me 2 sign something or take a picture. They r fake!


I don't know what to make of this.
Is he really calling the fans FAKE?!
WOW! Nice strategy...




> I know @jonnybones style well cuz we trained 2gether & he knows mine. Now it's just a matter of who payed more attention or held back more."


This really isn't something can be criticesd, but i will say only this: Jon Jones has no style. He has all styles.
Rashad thinks he knows Jones' style.




> ... @danstrandberg Greg brought this situation about. He brought Jones on board a while back *against my wishes* & here we r today


This is my favorite quote.
The bigger-bolded part is just GOLD: "against *my* wishes! 
Damn right Rashad...I missed the part where "Jackson's Mixed Martial Arts" became Rashad's company, his own business!!! :confused02:








Scenario:

The name "Jackson" on that board is just there because "Jackson" is a widely spread name in the US, right?!


> *Jackson*: "Hey Rashad, there is this talented kid - his name is Jon Jones, fights at LHW. He is really good, has some amazing skills and i believe i can make him better. He would be a good addition for our team. I believe he could be a champion one day! And he is only 21!!! I want him to join the team. What do you say?!"
> *Rashad*: "Hhhhmmmm! (stops and thinks: Champion?!)...Aaaaaahhh: I don't think it's a good idea. Why would you need him?! You have me and Jardine to fight at LHW. We can dominate the division for Jackson Team. Don't bring him here...
> *Jackson*: But Rashad?!...
> *Rashad*: Noooo...Sorry, i don't want him to join YOUR TEAM!


Poor Jones...all this time he knew this about him joining Jackson's team: "the guys got together and decided to accept me in the team!".
Looks like Rashad had a "fake smile" on his face all this time - almost 2 years! 

And now the icing on the cake:

Jon Jones joined Jackson's team in *August 2009*.
Source

I'm gonna repeat one of Rashad's comments:


> @Sam_Blackburn I will not use Greg ever again.. *I really haven't used him *in a while anyways.. In my last 2 fights I trained with him 5x's.. ...


His last 2 fights were against Rampage, May 2010 and against Thiago Silva, January 2010. Usually a camp for a fight lasts between 3 months, right?!
That would push back the beggining of Rashad's camp back to September!
By deductive reasoning/logic ----> Rashad "has used" Jackson 5 times since Spetember 2009.

So! Short recap: 
1. Jones joins Jackson's Team in August 2009, against Rashad's wish
2. Starting Sptember 2009, Rashad "has used" Jackson only 5 times

SEE WHAT I DID THERE?! 

*I't only a coincidence, right?!* :sarcastic12:

YES: Jones came out and said: "in case of absolute necessity, no options left, the UFC asking for it - stuff like that" he would fight Rashad!

And he got flamed for it! Totally undeserved imo. 
People questioned his integrity, his morality, his beavior, his body language - everything! 
Some people are still questioning him...

With Rashad coming out the way he did in the past 2 weeks or so..i thaught it was a good reason to make this thread.
To throw some new light on this subject.

Of course, it's just a personal opinion, wich some may not agree on. But it was taunting me..."do it...do it".

NOTE: I don't hate Rashad! I don't dislike Rashad. I'm neutral. A "whatever man....." 
But i had a different opinion about his character, a much better one...


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

They were never friends. This much is clear. Assuming limbas numbers mean anything, they barely knew each other. So really, they both talked a lot of shit to the fans. "Brothers" indeed.

I'll say it once again, when it comes down to it, and a BELT is involved, watch these friendships crumble. These men are fighters. They fight. They love it. Diplomacy is great... so long as you are not in my fecking way.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Limba I like the way you take the time to analyze this. You would like the philosphy course I took years ago. 

*EDIT* Just found this Twitter Quote: “Many of [you have] probably already seen that I got offered the title shot [and] decided [to] take it,” Evans wrote. “[Jones] fought amazing! I’m very happy [for] him! With that said I can’t wait [for] the chance [to] compete against him! I no longer will use Greg Jackson as my coach but we [are] still [cool]!” 


BTW: You seem like the type of person who would like the "INCEPTION" film. 

Anyways I've never quite like Rashad, but I'll tell you what though. I actually feel for him. I really do because it was him who should have been in the spotlight. Whether he won or not is a different story. The fight got handed to JBJ on a silver platter with the combination or hard work, dedication, and of course a bit of luck. That's life. JBJ is simply in a zone right now; I mean I woke up this morning thinking about that. He catches a robber before the biggest fight of his career? Do you know how much of a PR campaign that will do for his career...haha. It's like everything is falling into place for em. 

The last time I seen something like this was with Vitor Belfort in 1996. I just hope JBJ can remain grounded with the media blitz and new found fame/friends/leeches who will be coming his way. 

From a strategic stand point Rashad should remain in good terms with Jackson as he's already stated that he "will not corner either fighters." Part of the reason why JBJ is the champ is because of Jackson. There's no if or buts. Look at the fountain of knowledge he's able to absorb and the quality of training partners he has access to. It's unparalleled. 

Great find... The backstory is very intriguing to me. The pre-fight countdown and hype will be astronomical. I just hope the actual fight will live up to it. It's either a quick two rounder where JBJ TKOs em or a FIVE ROUND wrestling exhibition. 

Let's get it on...


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

He called Rampage an uncle tom. Did people really not know this guys character? He is a scumbag and it is pretty clear now he thinks he should be the only black fighter in MMA.


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## IllegalLegKick (Apr 13, 2010)

Well I'm thinking he'll probably join the Wolfslair, what do you guys think?


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I still like Rashad and I think he gets way too much abuse from my friends here.

Shameless fanboy plug: 

y'all should love Phil's opinion.



> Phil Davis: "I don't like to make a vendetta where there isn't one. I know Nogueira. I've trained with him. Nice guy. We're going to fight, and then I'll see him around San Diego, I'm going to shake his hand and we'll hang out. There's no need to make it more than what it is. We're doing business together. We're going to beat the crap out of each other and knock each others' screws loose, and hug after we're done and be real men and shake each others' hands, and that's it."
> 
> "Everybody you get the opportunity to train with, just train with them. So what if you have to fight them later? There's nothing about this fight, there's nothing malicious. I don't want to go out and rip his head off and hurt him or anything like that. No way. The Nogueira brothers are a class act. We're both going to make some money, hopefully get that Fight of the Night, and that's about it."


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

*Rashad Going Off Again.*



> This past Saturday at UFC 128 was supposed to be the culmination of two years of hard work for former champion Rashad Evans. He was set to face Mauricio "Shogun" Rua in a light heavyweight title bout that would give Evans the opportunity to finally reclaim the belt he once lost but instead of a moment of potential greatness, instead Evans has found himself in the midst of a bitter dispute. Several weeks from the fight Evans suffered an injury that forced him to withdraw and in his place the UFC tapped his teammate Jon Jones.
> 
> This created the potential confrontation between Evans and Jones, and while both men have publically stated this wasn't something they would take part in, after Jon Jones became the youngest light heavyweight champion in the history of the UFC, Evans was sitting right there in the number one contender's position. Now the reality of their matchup has forced a wedge between two men who were once considered close friends and training partners but Evans's frustration is not aimed at Jones alone. I caught up with Evans on the day after he agreed to face Jones later for the light heavyweight title and in his Bloody Elbow Exclusive interview, Evans spoke his mind. While Evans discussed the details of the situation between himself and Jon Jones, he perhaps showed more anger towards former Coach Greg Jackson's public declaration that he will take no part in the matchup.
> 
> ...


http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/3/2...ted-by-jon-jones-disappointed-in-greg-jackson


Regarding him starting his new camp, there are rumours that it will be with JZ calvacante,jorge santiago and the villiefort brothers who left ATT a week or so ago. apparently he was with them at UFC 128.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

Limba, this thread is worth a read:

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/89179-rashad-going-off-again.html

Should clear a few things up.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Interesting, I imagine it will all blow over after the Jones fight, and he'll be back at Jacksons. I actually give Rashad a better chance than anyone against Jones too. He won't be giving up a speed disadvantage against him, is probably a more accomplished wrestler, and his boxing could definitely trouble Jones. It's definitely the most intriguing match-up at 205 for Jones currently IMO. He'd be too quick and explosive for Rampage and Forrest, his wrestling is too good, and he'd be too quick for Machida to remain elusive, is a better grappler than Thiago Silva and he's already dominated Shogun. I think the only hopes of de-railing the Jones Era come in the form of Rashad, and if Phil Davis evolves as quickly as Jones himself did.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

Hopefully this situation will highlight the stupidity of the "I won't fight a friend/team mate" brigade. No matter who you are you only get so many title shots, you can't possibly be turning them down because a friend holds the belt.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

I have more respect for Rashad after reading this. Jon Jones snaked up and stepped over him, and Greg Jackson facilitated the whole thing.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Who cares about this drama any more? Rashad is getting thrown around like a rag doll like every other wrestle/boxer Jones has faced thus far.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Nice find man! Repped! Holy cow, I'm still reading it. 

You know this is the only time I will side with Spoken and actually cheer for Rashad surprisingly. All because of how it went down even before I read any of this. Had Rashad won against Shogun I would have said that JBJ would taken him out. But something rubbed me the wrong way with Jones during the lead up to the title fight.

1.) You don't fricken sign an autograph saying you're the 2011 champ.
2.) You should be respectful and vague about fighting your friend, training partner, and brother. As in "I'd rather not look at that situation right now as I have a big fight ahead of me with Shogun." Instead he outright blurts it on TV without consulting with Rashad first. 
3.) Very ambitious kid who knows no loyalty. 

I swear black people have no sense of loyalty. Then again most people don't. 

So with that said this is probably the ONE and ONLY time I will side with Rashad and hope he wins. Afterwards Shogun or Machida can take him out again. :thumb02:

Think about it. JBJ did not deserve that title shot...yet. It was handed to em in a silver platter. You know you got fighters who truly remain humble like GSP who goes through ups n downs in life, Machida who had like 5-7 fights before getting the title, Anderson who grinded it out on the MMA circuit for 10 years+ before finally winning the UFC belt and actually start making enough to take care of his family, Shogun had to go through countless set backs, Cain as well etc...etc. You can't hate on any of those champs I mentioned. You know JBJ isn't all to blame, but I think it's just the way things unfolded is what makes it too much of a cinderalla story for me.

- befriending Jackson and effectively ousting his so called team mate (so much for loyalty on all levels)
- catching a robber
- implementing strikes that aren't even his to call his own "other than the greco throws and spinning elbow." 

Yah I think I'm pretty annoyed with this kid. There's no doubting he's TALENTED AS HELL. I enjoyed watching him fight, but like how people dislike Anderson Silva I guess I kind of understand now. I have that same feeling with JBJ. 

He'll probably continue winning for some time. But he'll fall eventually like everybody.

NOBODY STAYS ON TOP FOREVER.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Hiro said:


> I have more respect for Rashad after reading this. Jon Jones snaked up and stepped over him, and Greg Jackson facilitated the whole thing.


Jones is a snake for accepting a title shot? Sounds like bias to me.

What happened to your sig:confused02:


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

"Greg came back saying, "No, no, no this will be just like you and Keith where he will be just like a brother." I still told him that I didn't want to do that. Then Greg said if that situation ever did arise between Jones and I that he would have to turn the fight down because that's how it works."

I forgot to mention this part of it in particular. As I said before I think this is an utterly idiotic agreement to make but IF Jones actually did agree to this (that he would turn down a fight between him and Rashad) then he should stick to it. Honor your word. Just don't make stupid agreements like that one (if he did, obviously we don't know for sure who said what right now).


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Rashad is right. Greg did create this problem and now he is washing his hands of it instead of manning up.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> Limba I like the way you take the time to analyze this. You would like the philosphy course I took years ago.
> 
> *EDIT* Just found this Twitter Quote: “Many of [you have] probably already seen that I got offered the title shot [and] decided [to] take it,” Evans wrote. “[Jones] fought amazing! I’m very happy [for] him! With that said I can’t wait [for] the chance [to] compete against him! I no longer will use Greg Jackson as my coach but we [are] still [cool]!”
> 
> ...


Like i've said. I have nothing against Rashad. I feel sorry for him for getting injured so close before the title fight. But it was his decision to wait that long.Nobody forced him to do so.

And i think he did himself a big disfavor by acting the way he did.
Leaving Jackson camp like this and sating those things about Jackson is just not right. And the tone he used in his interview with Ariel Helwani after 128.
Jackson didn't even knew about it until Helwani told him.

A mature person doesn't handle this type of situations the way Evans did. 
And the part with: *"against my wishes"*...that would *disqualify* anyone at a *integrity contest*.

Rashad was a hypocrit when he pointed fingers at Jones, accusing him of taking the title fight. 
Especially after saying this: (bolded part).

"Even knowing what I know now about what would happen during training, I'd make that same decision again," he said. "The problem is, there's no governing body to the UFC to decide who gets the title shot. There's no ranking, so how do I know when I'll get a title shot again? What, when Dana White likes me enough? It's basically on when he likes me, and you know as well as I know, that's not that often. *If I get the opportunity to fight for a title because he says so, then I'm going to take it.* If I have to wait to take it, I'll wait to take it."

Link

He accused Jones of doing something he would have done also.
That's called being fake.
Life is all about taking chances, going for it, because you never know what will happen.
Jones took his chance. Get over it Rashad.

_PS: I watched Inception. And i enjoyed it. Still not sure what to make out of the movies' ending though. _



IllegalLegKick said:


> Well I'm thinking he'll probably join the Wolfslair, what do you guys think?


You're joking, rihgt?! Rampage is training there.



oldfan said:


> I still like Rashad and I think he gets way too much abuse from my friends here.
> 
> Shameless fanboy plug:
> 
> y'all should love Phil's opinion.


 It's not abuse. 
Actually i mentioned in the OP: those were his own words. Nobody put a gun to his head forcing him to say what he said. 
Evans acted like a spoiled child, who found out he has to share the playground with another kid. Fact!
_
Jones got flamed for saying he is "too fast, too strong and too new school for Shogun". ..... REALLY NOW!?! I won't even go there..._

Evans should have acted his own age, like a mature person. And he should have shown Jackson the respect he deserves. 
Instead he talked about him like he was nothing. No: "thank you for the colaboration, foe everything you taught me, for accepting me in your gym..." 
End of story.

_PS: i'm keeping my eyes on Phil Davis. In a way he is very similar to Jones. 
And i'm rooting for him against Nogueira.
I hope he will get a motivation boost from seeing Jones win the belt._



osmium said:


> He called Rampage an uncle tom.


Wasn't familiar with the expression. Google'd it...
That's an awful thing to say. :thumbsdown:


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## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

Very interesting interview, thanks. Said this on another thread, but Evans is an eloquent speaker that talks a lot of sense, when your not just getting given tiny soundbites.

Have to say, I understand a lot of his annoyance in this situation.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

How on earth is it Greg Jacksons fault that Dana offered Bones the shot out of the blue like that? Does anybody think Greg had any influence at all over that decision? No. Dana knew full well what he was doing. He hates Jackson and his brotherhood thing. I imagine Dana wet himself with glee when the option came up to offer Jones the shot.

Rashad should blame Dana.

Plus, Is Rashad seriously suggesting that Jackson should turn down the opportunity to train one of the brightest prospects in the sport because he says so? Laughable.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> How on earth is it Greg Jacksons fault that Dana offered Bones the shot out of the blue like that? Does anybody think Greg had any influence at all over that decision? No. Dana knew full well what he was doing. He hates Jackson and his brotherhood thing. I imagine Dana wet himself with glee when the option came up to offer Jones the shot.
> 
> Rashad should blame Dana.
> 
> Plus, Is Rashad seriously suggesting that Jackson should turn down the opportunity to train one of the brightest prospects in the sport because he says so? Laughable.


Couldn't agree more. People are getting some pretty ridiculous ideas around here


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Why is Rashad making such a big deal out of this? The fact of the matter is they would have crossed paths somewhere down the line anyway. Whether Jones trained with Jackson or not he would have eventually become a top LHW.

It almost seems like Rashad was happy to have Jones in his camp so he could make the "brotherhood pact" with him and never have to fight him...that obviously didnt work out very well and he seems a bit upset.


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## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

For the record.....

I can understand Evan's annoyance.
I can understand Jackson's actions.
I can understand Jones wanting to join the camp, and wanting to fight anyone, including Evans.

Evan's has a right be annoyed, but its a dog eat dog world, and people make decisions based on whats best for them. Unfortunately,that can burn other people sometimes.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Nice find!
I won't say anything, because i made a thread about it already.

Instead i will ask one of the mods to merge the threads. It's a better idea. If that doesn't happen, feel free to join in the talk there:

Rashad Evans: Greg Jackson trained Jones against my wishes

But for me this qupte says everything:



> Greg brought this situation about. He brought Jones on board a while back *against my wishes* & here we r today


F*CK YEAH!!!
Because this is a business where a fighter can dictate his trainer (the Gym's Owner) how to run his business, right?!

You don't like it?! Go somewhere else!

*Evans acted like a spoiled child, who found out he has to share the playground with another kid. *


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Oh i can't stand Rashad.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Woah, nice little article limba, good read and i agree with everything. Rashad is delusional and i hope he receives a bigger whooping than Shogun did.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Yes there's another thread that I noticed you commented on. It goes more in depth about Rashad's perspective on things. 

PS: Check this analysis on Inception. That movie blew my mind. Chris Nolan must have wrote it while high on something...

You're gonna thank me. That movie is deep. 

http://screenrant.com/inception-spoilers-discussion-kofi-68330/


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Phil Davis said:


> "I don't like to make a vendetta where there isn't one. I know Nogueira. I've trained with him. Nice guy. We're going to fight, and then I'll see him around San Diego, I'm going to shake his hand and we'll hang out. There's no need to make it more than what it is. We're doing business together. We're going to beat the crap out of each other and knock each others' screws loose, and hug after we're done and be real men and shake each others' hands, and that's it."
> 
> "Everybody you get the opportunity to train with, just train with them. So what if you have to fight them later? There's nothing about this fight, there's nothing malicious. I don't want to go out and rip his head off and hurt him or anything like that. No way. The Nogueira brothers are a class act. We're both going to make some money, hopefully get that Fight of the Night, and that's about it."


*Fawns*. Starting to get serious man crush on Phil Davis. This guy can do no wrong, say no wrong in my eyes.

As for Rashad. He seems like an alright guy until things stop working his away and the way he wants, and then he seems to get all butthurt.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> Yes there's another thread that I noticed you commented on. It goes more in depth about Rashad's perspective on things.
> 
> PS: Check this analysis on Inception. That movie blew my mind. Chris Nolan must have wrote it while high on something...
> 
> ...


When Rashad was training for Shogun, he was in **DREAM LEVEL 4**.

When he got injured, he found himself in **DREAM LEVEL 3**.

When Jones took the title fight, he found himself in **DREAM LEVEL 2**.

When Jones said he would fight Rashad, if the UFC absolutely want him to do it, he found himself in **DREAM LEVEL 1**.

When Jones became Champion, Rashad woke up in **LIMBO** - lol at my name!!! 
he doesn't like it and he can't find his **TOTEM** (Jackson) to get out of it.

If Nolan wants to make Inception 2, this situation could be a great inspiration for him.


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

wow.....did you really sit and analyze tweet by tweet??

:confused03:


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## evzbc (Oct 11, 2006)

Rashad tries to be a class act, yet he's swearing all the time to reporters.

He is stealing Jon Jones thunder RIGHT after the kids fight.

He's a weasel. I loved that Phil Davis quote that someone posted. That's how he should have handled the situation.

Rashad thinks by telling everyone his tragic situation in great deal, he'll win fans. But he's doing the exact opposite.

Shut your mouth, and kick some ass.

God damn drama.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

After reading the article that Guy posted all of the Rashad insults seem even sillier.

Cheer against him in particular matchups, leave him off you favorite fighter list but, like him or not, Rashad Evans is exactly the kind of man the UFC needs to keep gaining respect as a top professional sport.

He's educated, articulate, athletically gifted, he has the heart of a fighter and the brains and personality to speak on TV and not embarrass us all. He could carry his own show, some fighters can't even carry an interview.

He's purtier than Jon Jones too.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

i actually see both sides of the coin here, its annoying though how rashad is acting like a child, but i understand him

its also annoying how cocky JBJ is

both guys are annoying, but both make a valid point, though i really dont dislike either of them, i actually dont care who wins this fight, i just hope to see a good fight!


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Sekou said:


> wow.....did you really sit and analyze tweet by tweet??
> 
> :confused03:


What can i say?! My brain operates at a fast pace.
I can translate my thoughts into words/sentences quite easily.
And, it just happens that i had a lot of free time on my hands when i wrote that post.



oldfan said:


> After reading the article that Guy posted all of the Rashad insults seem even sillier.
> 
> Cheer against him in particular matchups, leave him off you favorite fighter list but, like him or not, Rashad Evans is exactly the kind of man the UFC needs to keep gaining respect as a top professional sport.
> 
> He's educated, articulate, athletically gifted, he has the heart of a fighter and the brains and personality to speak on TV and not embarrass us all. He could carry his own show, some fighters can't even carry an interview.


I'm not dennying he's educated, gifted or that "he has brains".
But in this case, he acted immaturely.
And, as a (Mixed) Martial Artist, he acted very disrespectful towards Greg Jackson. Exactly the opposite he is claiming to be.
Not that it matters, but he lost a lot of respect from a lot of fans...myself included.



oldfan said:


> He's purtier than Jon Jones too.


Damn you! 
Google'd *purtier*...= did you mean *prettier*?! lol


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

kinda off topic


but whats with the rifts at American Kickboxing Academy??:confused02:

Ive heard Rumble and Koscheck are always at each others throats...and Cung Lee doesnt train with any of them.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

limba said:


> What can i say?! My brain operates at a fast pace.
> I can translate my thoughts into words/sentences quite easily.
> And, it just happens that i had a lot of free time on my hands when i wrote that post.
> 
> ...




See... I still don't get that. The guy found out through the media that what his coach and training partner told him wasn't true then, the same media gets in his face and asks "what do you think about that?"

So his whole thought process is being dissected on the internet by Jon Jones fanatics, and he's the one being immature?

You're trying a little too hard to defend Jones my friend.


PS. I can't wait to see which one has righteous fire in his eyes on fight night and which one has the "uh..oh..Maybe I should have done things differently" look.

EDIT: LIMBA'S GONE BOBBYCOOPER ON US. WE CAN NEVER DISCUSS JONES WITH HIM AGAIN.


EDIT EDIT: you know I love you Bobby


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## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

> Originally Posted by Phil Davis
> "I don't like to make a vendetta where there isn't one. I know Nogueira. I've trained with him. Nice guy. We're going to fight, and then I'll see him around San Diego, I'm going to shake his hand and we'll hang out. There's no need to make it more than what it is. We're doing business together. We're going to beat the crap out of each other and knock each others' screws loose, and hug after we're done and be real men and shake each others' hands, and that's it."
> 
> "Everybody you get the opportunity to train with, just train with them. So what if you have to fight them later? There's nothing about this fight, there's nothing malicious. I don't want to go out and rip his head off and hurt him or anything like that. No way. The Nogueira brothers are a class act. We're both going to make some money, hopefully get that Fight of the Night, and that's about it."





Iuanes said:


> *Fawns*. Starting to get serious man crush on Phil Davis. This guy can do no wrong, say no wrong in my eyes.
> 
> As for Rashad. He seems like an alright guy until things stop working his away and the way he wants, and then he seems to get all butthurt.


Great quote. The camps should take a leaf out of the reems of TUF series. Okay, so friendships on that show aren't maybe always as deeply forged, but in the main part, many fighters that have become friends end up facing each other, and have the Phil Davis mentality about the situation. So simple.


----------



## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

There are people on this forum that honestly have no idea why Rashad Evans is one of the most disliked fighters by casual fans and hardcore fans alike, and this right here is why most people don't like him. I don't mind Evans. He's well-spoken, respects his opponents, has reverted from being a cocky thug to someone who is really dedicated to martial arts and is friendly to the fans even though they shit on him constantly. He's an arrogant SOB though. The guy literally thinks that he hung the moon and believes that he should always be accomodated for. The thing is, is that Rashad doesn't even realize that he's that arrogant. Thinking that his coach should make a decision to bring or not bring in a certain guy based on his personal opinion is something else, really.

I am a Jon Jones hater through and through. I hate his attitude, his sense of self-righteousness, his psuedo-intellectual view of himself, and his immaturity. I'll never root for Jones, even if he fights Anderson (And I despise Anderson). But the kid is talented and WANTS to get better as a fighter, and he shouldn't be allowed to because the almighty Rashad might not approve?

Please.


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

oldfan said:


> See... I still don't get that. The guy found out through the media that what his coach and training partner told him wasn't true then, the same media gets in his face and asks "what do you think about that?"


Greg Jackson is still against this fight! He made that clear!
I don't have a big problem about Rashad's comments towards Jones. Although he said some things i find pretty insulting really: "sometimes you talk a little too fast for your brain to keep up." Classy, right?!

But i still believe his attitude towards Jackson is very disrespectful.

Jones joined Jackson Camp in August 2009. Since then Rashad *has used* Jackson just 5 times.
It's obvious - at least for me - that Rashad *held something inside* ever since that moment.
And it all culminated, with Jones accepting the title shot.



> The guy found out through the media that what his coach and training partner told him wasn't true...


Jones just found out through the media that the guy who he thought gave his approval/acceptance for him to join Jackson Camp - in reality didn't want him there in the first place!

Reality can be such a bi*ch!



oldfan said:


> So his whole thought process is being dissected on the internet by Jon Jones fanatics, and he's the one being immature?
> 
> *You're trying a little too hard to defend Jones my friend.*
> 
> PS. I can't wait to see which one has righteous fire in his eyes on fight night and which one has the "uh..oh..Maybe I should have done things differently" look.


I get an extra target on my back because i'm a Jon Jones fans, right?! 

I'll admit: Jones saying he would fight Rashad in an extreme situation, was like spraying gasoline over a fire.
But, as it turns out, this fire was started way before Jones said what he said.
Rashad's quotes are a proof of that.

Sure, Jones can be blamed for saying that. But he's the younger guy, the inexperienced one, enthusiastic and all that stuff.

I believe Rashad is pissed about Jones accepting the title shot more than about him saying he would fight him honestly.

But, life is short and you gotta take advantage of every chance you get. 
A "philosopher" such as Jones, who watched his 19 year old sister die because of cancer, should know this.
Take advantage of every chance you get.

Oooooh.......and another thing:



> "Even knowing what I know now about what would happen during training, I'd make that same decision again," he said. "The problem is, there's no governing body to the UFC to decide who gets the title shot. There's no ranking, so how do I know when I'll get a title shot again? What, when Dana White likes me enough? It's basically on when he likes me, and you know as well as I know, that's not that often. *If I get the opportunity to fight for a title because he says so, then I'm going to take it. If I have to wait to take it, I'll wait to take it."*
> 
> "I'll see what shakes out. *I don't want anybody to not succeed for my own selfish reasons.* *I feel like everything happens the way it's supposed to happen.*"
> 
> ...


- MR. RASHAD EVANS, 02/22/2011

Link

Funny, huh?!

__________
*EDIT*
You edited your post, while i was writing this.



> EDIT: LIMBA'S GONE BOBBYCOOPER ON US. WE CAN NEVER DISCUSS JONES WITH HIM AGAIN.


I believe you can discuss *Jones* with me. Everyone can. 

I backed him up a lot, still do and i will back him up as long as i think he deserves it. 
He took a lot of *shit* from so many people, for every little thing he said/did. And he still does, but it's OK. There needs to be a balance in all of this.

So far, everything he said and did has just enforced my belief that it's worth being a Jon Jones fan.
I'm riding the *Jon Jones train* and i'm loving every second of it.

Great talking to ya, btw.


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

limba said:


> When Rashad was training for Shogun, he was in **DREAM LEVEL 4**.
> 
> When he got injured, he found himself in **DREAM LEVEL 3**.
> 
> ...


Hmmm...that does sound plausible metaphorically speaking. I think it is a dream/nightmare situation for Rashad. How will it unravel...that is the question.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Wow great interview posted by Guy which cleared up a lot of things (at least coming from Rashad's point of view). I don't blame Rashad one bit for feeling like he's feeling, and you can tell he's hurt. He's speaking from the heart and I feel for him.


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## HD209458B (Mar 19, 2011)

there really nothing weird about it, all Jackson cares about is $$$.

Rashad might have been a decent asset to Jackson but Rashard is nothing compared to Jones(youngest UFC Champion, n he ran through everyone so far, inc Shogun). On top of that Jones is a exciting fighter, he finish fight unlike Safe Pierre.

I don't think Rashard will beat Jones, and Rashard might never get another title shot, so i would pick Jones too if i was Jackson.

Jackson said he wont coach Jones or Rashard for their fight and he said he wants Rashard back, lets see if he keeps his word. Maybe he is thinking i'm gonna have to get Rashard back just in case he wins. lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k70lJ4jtDpA


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

Limba, I'm going to point out a couple of things...

1. Rashad has stated why he didn't use Jackson in his past couple of fights

2. Bones made an agreement and effectively broke it by stepping over Rashad. 

You can't blame him for being pissed when he didn't want the guy there in the first place, he embraces it, gets told they wont fight, gets told they're friends etc then as soon as he gets injured Jones walks in and takes the title shot knowing full well Rashad will have to fight him.

Yes I get it, this is the fight game and it's every man for themself to some extent. But Jones has still talked a load of friendy friend bullshit when really he was in no mindset to be doing so. He lied to better himself and then stepped on Rashad at the first opportunity.

Call Rashad what you will but your boy isn't as squeaky clean as you and the man himself like to think.

And yes I am bitter about Shogun losing, but I'm still rational. I was the one saying Jones had stepped on Rashad when he took the title shot, so my stance hasn't really changed despite being bitter :thumb02:


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Did you expect Jones to turn down the title shot Hiro? That doesn't make a hell of alot of sense. 

It's not like the LHW division is only there for Rashad. If Suga was so worried about there friendship he should've take the route that Jones did before he replaced him.

Didn't Jon say he'd be happy being number two to Rashad?

Rashad sounds like the dude that was dumped for another dude and complaining to the girl about it. It's not like she gives a shit so save your breath and prove to her that she made a mistake. By winning the belt back:thumb02:


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

oldfan said:


> See... I still don't get that. The guy found out through the media that what his coach and training partner told him wasn't true then, the same media gets in his face and asks "what do you think about that?"


See, this is where he went wrong either through media relations inexperience or whatever reason. When the media drops a bombshell on you and sticks a mic in your face, you keep your trap shut and say "no comment". When they keep coming after you for answers you say "no comment, let me sort this out and get back to you". As upset as you might be you do not speak your mind and give them the gas & matches they'll use to light you on fire.

But he didn't do that, and as far as I can tell he never sorted shit out in private with Jones & Jackson, everything was vented in front of the goddamn media.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

HD209458B said:


> there really nothing weird about it, all Jackson cares about is $$$.
> 
> Rashad might have been a decent asset to Jackson but Rashard is nothing compared to Jones(youngest UFC Champion, n he ran through everyone so far, inc Shogun). On top of that Jones is a exciting fighter, he finish fight unlike Safe Pierre.
> 
> ...


The more I think about it G. Jackson reminds me of a Gremlin. 



Hiro said:


> Limba, I'm going to point out a couple of things...
> 
> 1. Rashad has stated why he didn't use Jackson in his past couple of fights
> 
> ...


Yah the way the title fight unfolded put a bitter taste to my mouth. JBJ should be counting his blessings. 

He'll get taken out eventually. They always do.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

*Rashad says Jon stabbed him in the back*



> “You can’t say you are not going to have anything to do with it when you are a big part of the reason why the situation originated. That’s like spilling a glass of milk and then walking away and saying that you don’t want to have anything to do with it. You f**kn spilled the milk…so you’re at least going to help clean it up right? When Jon Jones came to the gym over a year ago Greg Jackson came to me and said, “listen, what do you feel about having this kid on the team?” I told him straight up that I didn’t like it. I told him that the kid was talented and that the sky was the limit with him but that was the type of guy I wanted to fight not train with. Greg came back saying, “No, no, no this will be just like you and Keith where he will be just like a brother.” I still told him that I didn’t want to do that. Then Greg said if that situation ever did arise between Jones and I that he would have to turn the fight down because that’s how it works. He would have to turn down the fight with me so that way I wouldn’t be put in a position where I looked like a punk. That’s how it works in the Greg Jackson system. After a while Greg was so high on this kid coming in and I met Jon Jones and he was a very nice and very sweet kid, so eventually I said f**k it, let’ s bring him in. After he got there and I trained with him and tried him out a little bit, something didn’t feel right so I moved my camp up to Denver to train at Grudge for awhile. That is where I spent the majority of my time over the past two fights… Then he comes across on national TV and says that he will fight Rashad if Dana White tells me to and I felt so f**cking utterly disrespected… I mean it’s one thing to say something in an interview but the least you could have picked up the phone and been like, “man I did an interview today and they kind of put me on the spot with a rough question and I answered it this way.” At least give me the heads up so that way I know and not look at it if he’s Judas or something. You know who Judas is? That interview was some backstabbing s**t but now it’s like whatever because now I know the game he is playing. Then for Greg to sit back and say he doesn’t want to have anything to do with it….why not? You f**kn created the situation. Be his coach and be in his corner. That’s what you want so do it. I don’t care if coaches against me. It doesn’t even matter… I feel disrespected by Jon because when I think about when we trained or when we were chilling, was the s**t even real? Or was he just trying to be a master manipulator and try to manipulate the situation so he could get what he wanted out of it? I don’t know and that is a question that I have in my mind but when I get down to it…that doesn’t even matter because we are going to get in there and we are going to fight.”
> 
> —Rashad Evans, via Bloody Elbow, responding to Greg Jackson’s statement that he’ll have nothing to do with the Jon Jones vs. Rashad Evans title fight
> 
> ...


http://www.mmaconvert.com/2011/03/2...im-in-the-back-greg-jackson-spilled-the-milk/

WAR SUGA! i dont care how selfish he sounds i always root for rashad just me,spoke and a tumbledweed.


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## Dan0 (Aug 22, 2008)

The full interview was already posted here, mate, but I'm too lazy to find the thread.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

whoopsy doodle i havent seen that thread though


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

Rashads getting very wound up. I looking forward to seeing this fight.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

Put me on the Rashads train.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Man rsasahd used to be my favorite fighter until he fought rampage and became a punk. However i love the way he is gonig after jones and he is now again one of my favorite. War Evans.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Evans used to be one of my favorite fighter but i disliked him during the ramapge saga as page is one of my favorite all time. However i love the way he is gonig after jones. People tend to foget before the page saga and machida ko evans was one hell of a fighter. He still if people just forgot since they moved on to jon jones.


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## Abrissbirne (Jul 4, 2010)

I actually agree with rashad, even though i dislike him. That whole move from Bones is a little suspect to me still...


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Hiro said:


> Limba, I'm going to point out a couple of things...
> 
> 1. Rashad has stated why he didn't use Jackson in his past couple of fights


That's what i don't understand that much! If he really "didn't use" Jackson too much lately, why is he so pissed about this?! 
He basially *made* Jackson choose between him and Jones. Jones training there daily and he being away at another camp. 
Sounds stupid.
At least for me - *biased Jones fan of course...* - it sounds like Rashad "alienated" himself from Jackson camp a long time ago.



> gets told they're friends


That's funny. 
That only works when you're 6 years old.
When you're an adult, you can make that decision yourself: if you wanna be friends with someone or not.
Rashad didn't want him there in the first place, but still put a fake smile on his face since day one up until one month ago.

The next sentence may be very subjective, but Jones is not stupid and i think he has the ability to detect if Rashad really embraced him as his teammate.

I think a normal-adult person has that ability.
I am sure you and any member on this board has been in that situation also: when you joined a team/group and you had that feeling not everyone was thrilled to have you there.
I know i have, but like i've said - it's a subjective opinion.



Hiro said:


> 2. Bones made an agreement and effectively broke it by stepping over Rashad.
> 
> 
> You can't blame him for being pissed when he didn't want the guy there in the first place, he embraces it, gets told they wont fight, gets told they're friends etc then as soon as he gets injured Jones walks in and takes the title shot knowing full well Rashad will have to fight him.
> ...


Look man...
What Jones said, about fighting Evans - in an extreme situation - may not have been the best thing to do, but he said it. That's all.
And being the "mature and well spoken" person that he is, rashad went out in the media, instead of talking this with Jones and Greg Jackson.



> I respect Dana White a lot and if that's what he absolutely wanted to happen then, you know, I guess that's what would have to happen.
> I just would hate to have to fight my own teammate. I would never want to.


But it was like: "I WOULD..." - that reffers to a hypothetical situation. It's not like all of a sudden he said: "I wanna fight Rashad!"

I remember the subject of fighting your teammate was brought up a lot of times since i became a member on this place. The debate was harsh. 
But, everytime about 70-80% of the people involved in the debates agreed it's a normal thing to do, even if they're friends and/or teammates. Because they're professionals and this is they're job.

I always said it's not i don't find that situation normal, but i can't relate to it, because i'm not a fighter and in the end it all comes down to the fighters. It's their call.
And, as a MMA fan i can only respect one fighter's opinion.

Even Fitch and Koscheck said that they would fight if the title was on the line and money was right. But they said this in avery elusive way.

As far as i know, Jones was the first man to come out and express a more solid opinion regarding this subject. And he gets ripped apart: "how dare he?!"...how could he?!...

Anderson Silva said Belfort broke somekind of code when accepting to fight him for the MW title.


> “Vitor trained a long time in our team. Team Nogueira. And we have a code of honour under which we will not fight each other. We spend much more time together than with our own families. Team Nogueira is the product of what Rodrigo has always taught, which is to help one another and always be one united family.”
> 
> “Vitor spent a lot of time with us – a long time training with us, we opened the door of our home to him. And he broke this code [by agreeing to fight me]. He went his own way; I have nothing against Vitor but he went his own way.”


Link

Nobody flamed Belfort for doing this! There were some "baby talks: "yeaah...it's not to honorable, but it's a title fight and in this case he had to do it" - that was the general consesus about this.
But the debate cooled down as soon as it started!

Others get the benefit of the doubt, the "living in the moment and taking every chance" shit and Jones gets flamed. 


And the situation about Jones accepting the title shot has been discussed too mnay times already, as soon as he accepted it. It's a "no brainer".

1. The UFC had to come with an opponent for Shogun
2. Rampage declined
3. Jones was the only one that was available
4. He was put in a very tight spot when being offered the shot LIVE in front of millions of fans
5. You don't refuse a title fight 



> Call Rashad what you will but your boy isn't as squeaky clean as you and the man himself like to think.


No.
He is NOT *squeaky clean*. He is not perfect.
He has a lot of things to work on, in order to become a better person.

But you know what: nobody's perfect!
Everyone has their own *dark secrets* and characteristic features that will always get some people's alarm ringing like it's the end of the world.

But, i also believe we should first judge *Jon Jones - the fighter*. And we should assign less attention to *Jon Jones - the person*

Afterall this is *Mixed Martial Arts Forum*!


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

i will be one of the few on rashads side for this fight good to see a few more have taken mine and spokens path, marc you did a double post


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## Couchwarrior (Jul 13, 2007)

I've always thought Evans is a pretty likable guy although he's seemed a bit weird at times, like when he told a reporter that he beat Machida, but I've never really understood the Evans hate.

Let's be honest though, if he feels frustrated now, it's nothing compared to how he will feel after Jones destroys him in the the octagon and then proceeds to tell Rogan that "Rashad is a great fighter, but I'm just too gifted and new school, and the universe stepped aside so I could win".


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## radab (Mar 14, 2010)

poor Rashad's gonna be Gatti to Jones' Mayweather


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## tkoshea (Nov 14, 2010)

I'm not sure why Rashad gets such a negative response from the fans in general.

He always seems an articulate and entertaining guy in interviews and played his role well in TUF.

I understand some of his fights have seen excess wrestling and can be viewed as dull, but he also has some of the more impressive knock outs in recent years on his highlight reel.

I suppose his nipple rubbing antics may have played apart as well as fighting some of the most popular fighters (Chuck, Forest, Rampage) which results in him being cast as the heel.

I like Rashad, he's not one of my favourites but I think he deserves more credit for his abilities and achievements in the cage as well as his personality on the mic and camera.

Surely JBJ will start as the favourite to win now, but Rashad must have a chance of regaining his title.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

limba said:


> That's what i don't understand that much! If he really "didn't use" Jackson too much lately, why is he so pissed about this?!
> He basially *made* Jackson choose between him and Jones. Jones training there daily and he being away at another camp.
> Sounds stupid.
> At least for me - *biased Jones fan of course...* - it sounds like Rashad "alienated" himself from Jackson camp a long time ago.


Maybe it was obvious to him that it didn't make sense for 2 of the top LHWs to be in the same gym. I don't see that this part really matters, he's been there for years, Jones has been there for no time at all. He didn't make Jackson do anything... from what Rashad is saying Jackson *made* him accept that it was ok to have 2 top LHWs in the same gym which clearly it wasn't and Rashad was the only one out of all of them to say that at the beginning. But Jones and Jackson wanted it to happen and this is the inevitable result. Not Rashad's fault, simple as that.




> That's funny.
> That only works when you're 6 years old.
> When you're an adult, you can make that decision yourself: if you wanna be friends with someone or not.
> Rashad didn't want him there in the first place, but still put a fake smile on his face since day one up until one month ago.


You're taking what I said too literally. This implies, from Jackson and Jones, that they wont ever get in each other's way. Did that stay true? No.



> Look man...
> What Jones said, about fighting Evans - in an extreme situation - may not have been the best thing to do, but he said it. That's all.
> And being the "mature and well spoken" person that he is, rashad went out in the media, instead of talking this with Jones and Greg Jackson.


I don't care who's more mature tbh, this isn't about that. Jones was the catalyst by talking to the media.



> But it was like: "I WOULD..." - that reffers to a hypothetical situation. It's not like all of a sudden he said: "I wanna fight Rashad!"


Ok



> I remember the subject of fighting your teammate was brought up a lot of times since i became a member on this place. The debate was harsh.
> But, everytime about 70-80% of the people involved in the debates agreed it's a normal thing to do, even if they're friends and/or teammates. Because they're professionals and this is they're job.
> 
> I always said it's not i don't find that situation normal, but i can't relate to it, because i'm not a fighter and in the end it all comes down to the fighters. It's their call.
> ...


He said that he would never fight Rashad, Rashad had been promised by Jackson/Jones that it would never be an issue, then Jones steps over Rashad and says he would fight him if he had to. He's a snake. Kos and Fitch stick to their guns, Jones lied to Rashad and to the media.



> Anderson Silva said Belfort broke somekind of code when accepting to fight him for the MW title.
> 
> 
> Link
> ...


This is a completely different scenario, adds nothing to the argument.



> Others get the benefit of the doubt, the "living in the moment and taking every chance" shit and Jones gets flamed.


I think you need to stop drawing for this card in every JJ debate, it's just a get-out move and an excuse.



> And the situation about Jones accepting the title shot has been discussed too mnay times already, as soon as he accepted it. It's a "no brainer".
> 
> 1. The UFC had to come with an opponent for Shogun
> 2. Rampage declined
> ...


I agree, but don't join a gym where Rashad Evans is at and pretend you'll never step on his toes. Simple as that.



> No.
> He is NOT *squeaky clean*. He is not perfect.
> He has a lot of things to work on, in order to become a better person.
> 
> ...


All I'm doing is saying Rashad is right and has a reason to be pissed. I don't hate JJ for it, I don't like him but this isn't some agenda against Jones for the sake of it. I feel bad for Rashad and think he is right in all of this.

The bottom line is JJ did what he had to to convince those at Jackson's that him joining was not an issue for Rashad, and Jackson supported the notion. Then at the first opportunity they make it an issue for Rashad. No one should turn down a title shot, but no one should make promises they can't keep. End of story.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

After doing some thinking I realized the MMA landscape is very circumstantial. Meaning injuries, fans, fighters, and management all have a play in making decisions. 

1.) Injuries (self explanatory)

2.) Fans play a huge role in making fight happens. Remember when the UFC was going to run a Hendo vs Franklin x 2. We all revolted against that one. Lo and behold they took them off and changed the fight card. One of many examples. Anderson vs GSP and now Anderson vs Jones eventually. Signing Fedor. So they do the next best thing by buying out Pride and then SF. 

3.) Fighters (Rashad was asked to fight against Jardine and he declined. Anderson vs Machida. Same situation. Fitch vs AKA guys. " ")

4.) Management (Even though management reserves the right to make executive decisions. They're one of the few "suits" who listen and consider the opinions of fans and more importantly the fighters. That's a rarity in the world of high flying sports/business.)

With that said had JBJ fought one more time (Lil Nog, Davis, Machida, Rampage) then went on to fight for the belt I think the transition would have been a lot smoother. Also the way he conducted himself with Rashad raised some eyebrows. Imagine yourself in Rashad's shoes. You got knocked out, grinded your way back into title contention only to get injured. Your lil bro gets the spotlight then turns against you. Basically does not acknowledge you. "I couldn't have got here with out Jackson and Rashad. I don't like to think about facing him at this point since I have a big fight ahead of me. We'll sit down and discuss when the time comes, etc...etc." What he said was pretty ambitious and subversive. Meaning he had planned it all along that he wanted to usurp Rashad. Even I could tell you that. Again, it's business right. But I'll tell you what it's very personal for Rashad. 

*NOTE* I am not a Rashad fan at all...lolz! But I'm a realist. 

Lets put it this way. In business you intern at a corporation. You're given intellectual property and learn the ropes over the course of the three years. Then you start a competing company taking the same business model. That's a conflict of interest and even worse a breach of contract. Corporations all usually have some form on non-disclosure contracts with their employees. 

In the MMA world there's only your "word." Most adhere to it, some don't. That's the reality. I've always known that JBJ would become champion. It's too bad it happened the way it did. 

Lets all watch the soap opera unfold before our eyes now.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

UFC_OWNS said:


> i will be one of the few on rashads side for this fight good to see a few more have taken mine and spokens path, marc you did a double post


Surprisingly I'm pro Rashad here. More out of principle. 

Here's the original thread. It can merge into one gigantic thread.
http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/89165-c...kson-trained-jon-jones-against-my-wishes.html

Disclaimer: I am no means a Rashad fan.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

nah i dont want it into a giant debate thread because limba as much as i love the dude is always on jones side and provides a lot of unnecessary info on why jones is always in the right, i always rep my guys no mater how much they hated on


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## Thunder1 (Aug 16, 2008)

Get over it! Much respect for Jackson, however he has no business telling the fighters that up front. He should be telling them anyone can join this camp but at some point you might end up fighting another fighter that trains here. This is professional fighting. It's not up to Jackson to play match maker. If that's too much for him to swallow he should only take on one client in each weight class. I'm a Carwin fan, but I see the same problem coming down the road if Schuab and Carwin need to fight.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Thunder1 said:


> Get over it! Much respect for Jackson, however he has no business telling the fighters that up front. He should be telling them anyone can join this camp but at some point you might end up fighting another fighter that trains here. This is professional fighting. It's not up to Jackson to play match maker. If that's too much for him to swallow he should only take on one client in each weight class. I'm a Carwin fan, but I see the same problem coming down the road if Schuab and Carwin need to fight.


They are professional fighters but if you train with someone who knows how to beat you and your weakness then its a conflict of interest. His policy makes great sense, its a family helping each other becoming better. All there secrets etc is within that family, it should not be on public display as its unfair.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Hiro said:


> Maybe it was obvious to him that it didn't make sense for 2 of the top LHWs to be in the same gym. I don't see that this part really matters, he's been there for years, Jones has been there for no time at all. He didn't make Jackson do anything... *from what Rashad is saying Jackson *made* him accept that* it was ok to have 2 top LHWs in the same gym which clearly it wasn't and Rashad was the only one out of all of them to say that at the beginning.


I fail to see where in this world a fighter can have the last word in a situation like this.
With the risk of repeating myself: the gym is called *Jackson Mixed Martial Arts*, not Evans MMA!
Jackson clearly has an eye for talented fighters and he saw something in Jones. he didn't want to miss the opportunity to work with him.
Otherwise, Jones would have gon to a different gym and there would have been a big chance of him becoming a very strong contender in the LHW division and a dangerous competitor for Jackson's fighters.

If Rashad didn't want Jones at Jackson's in the first place, he could have just moved his camp.

_Repeat: he didn't wanna share the playgrounf with another kid._



Hiro said:


> But Jones and Jackson wanted it to happen and this is the inevitable result. Not Rashad's fault, simple as that.


This are pure assumptions!
1. First of all Jackson made it clearly: he doesn't like this situation one bit and if the fight happens he won't corner either fighter. He hates this and would love nothing more than for this to end.
I watched his interview and he clearly isn't that good of an actor to pull that off. No way. I believe him.

2. *Jones said he doesn't want this fight either, but if the UFC want him to fight Rashad, last solution scenario, he would have to do it. 
I believe last scenario involves title fight.*

Maybe he was wrong to say this, without talking to Jackson and Rashad first. Maybe he is just that tenacious and it was deliberate. Who knows?!




You're taking what I said too literally. This implies, from Jackson and Jones, that they wont ever get in each other's way. Did that stay true? No.





Hiro said:


> I don't care who's more mature tbh, this isn't about that. *Jones was the catalyst* by talking to the media.


That i can agree on.

But at the same time, Rashad is the one saying this:


> "I'll see what shakes out. I don't want anybody to not succeed for my own selfish reasons. I feel like everything happens the way it's supposed to happen."
> "I told him, 'Listen, after you destroy this guy everybody's going to be talking and saying you should fight Rashad or whatever, but understand that whatever's meant for you is meant for you, and whatever's meant for me is meant for me.'"
> "Neither of us controls the key to the future. It's out of our hands, so whatever happens, happens. So I can't be mad at that. I just have to live with what happens next. I still want to be champion. I still consider myself the best guy in the weight class, so it's tough to swallow, but you just have to go forward. That's all you can do."





Hiro said:


> He said that he would never fight Rashad, Rashad had been promised by Jackson/Jones that it would never be an issue, then *Jones steps over Rashad and says he would fight him if he had to*. He's a snake. Kos and Fitch stick to their guns, Jones lied to Rashad and to the media.


Rashad said the same thing, right after Jones said it. 




Hiro said:


> This is a completely different scenario, adds nothing to the argument.
> (Anderson vs Belfort - breaking the *code of honor*)


No no no...
It's more similar than you think.
It's just that it didn't get the same media attention and it happened after a longer period of time, not so fsat as this situation.



Hiro said:


> I think you need to stop drawing for this card in every JJ debate, it's just a get-out move and an excuse.


Actually i think that is the best card to draw and play.
And again, Rashad has the right quote for this also:



> he said. "The problem is, there's no governing body to the UFC to decide who gets the title shot. There's no ranking, so how do I know when I'll get a title shot again? What, when Dana White likes me enough? It's basically on when he likes me, and you know as well as I know, that's not that often. If I get the opportunity to fight for a title because he says so, then I'm going to take it. If I have to wait to take it, I'll wait to take it."





Hiro said:


> I agree, but don't join a gym where Rashad Evans is at and pretend you'll never step on his toes. Simple as that.


Again...it's not Evans MMA. It's Jackson MMA.
Not everything in this world circles around Evans.



Hiro said:


> All I'm doing is saying Rashad is right and has a reason to be pissed.


Agreed! 
Damn right he has that right! I would be pissed also. 
But he said "he ain't no punk, so....." and he will fight Jones.
What's the problem?! Move on!



Hiro said:


> I don't hate JJ for it, I don't like him but this isn't some agenda against Jones for the sake of it. I feel bad for Rashad and think he is right in all of this.


I felt bad for Rashad when he got injured and he lost the chance to fight for the belt.
But, 


> "Even knowing what I know now about what would happen during training, I'd make that same decision again,"


It was bad luck. It happens.
And now he has the title shot. It's just that he has to fight Jones for it.
He said he consideres himself the best in the division. Where's the problem then.

This isn't a "drama-queen reality show", for the love of humanity... *Grow back your balls!* Show the world you're the best.



Hiro said:


> The bottom line is JJ did what he had to to convince those at Jackson's that him joining was not an issue for Rashad, and Jackson supported the notion. Then at the first opportunity they make it an issue for Rashad. No one should turn down a title shot, but no one should make promises they can't keep. End of story.




I like your last sentence, but i can't kepp myself from analysing it also. I'm a maniac...what can i say?! ...



> No one should turn down a title shot, but no one should make promises they can't keep.


Agreed and agreed. 
But, these two don't go along together. At least in this situation. Are you following me?!

1. you're saying: "no one should turn down a title fight" - Jones didn't!
2. you're saying: "no one should make promises they can't keep" - Jones can't!

At this point, it's all up to Rashad to turn down the title fight. Jones is the champ and he can't turn down the fight.
Jones said "he would fight Rashad".
Rashad "has to fight Jones".
It's a very complicated situation at this point, from every angle you look at it: morally, psychologically, professionally etc.

I hope you understand what i meant. 
Those 2 scenarios would work in another situation, but in this one - they just can't coexist.

Let's pretend Jones wouldn't have said he would fight Rashad. 
He beats Shogun.
Dana already said, before 128, that Rashad is still the No.1 Contender, so he would have been in this situation, with or without Jones saying what he said. 


Let's agree to disagree. Or just agree on a couple of stuff.
I believe all arguments have been used at this point and we're just gonna walk around in a circle from now on.

I respect your opinion and i think you bring some good points in the discussion.
Yes: Jones is not perfect. But at the end of the day, he made the right decision taking in consideration what's good for him and his family.
No: Rashad shouldn't feel like a bi*ch anymore. He should man-up and move forward.

This is life!


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

Agree to disagree.

Life goes on...


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

I hope Rashad wins because i feel that this whole situation was caused by Jones.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Hiro said:


> Agree to disagree.
> 
> Life goes on...


Heeey!

At least when we're gonna look back at this, we could have a few laughs


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Nice, at it again rashad. Nobody stabbed you in the back.


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

so basically he's saying

"I've been an hypocrit since before I knew the guy, but now that I have to fight him I'd rather just say it all out loud"

what a cry baby, definitely can't tell the difference between business and personal 

friends fight each other ALL THE f***ing time, because true friends know and trust eachother no matter the outcome, so basically Rashad comes clear about the fact that he was a hypocrit all along.

I take it JBJ is not baby Jesus, by far, but Evans is such a cry baby who can't get over himself, never liked him, never will

I hope he gets his a$$ kicked within the first 20 seconds of the (very) first round.

anyway, I rather have to read this than be blind but what a douche, my 9yo son is more mature than that, and I'm not even kidding here. He's right up there in my hall of fame of douchebags, with Matt Hughes (even tho hughes have had some genuinely good times, and is able to behave as a pro when needed)

man JBJ wouldn't be enough, he should get his a$$ kicked by bisping


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

at some point DW might just step in and set things straights, he owns their a$$es so he's the boss, it's not the fighters place to say who they want or don't want to fight.

it's just a common curtesy if they get asked about it.

Didn't rashad say were JBJ win the belt he'd move to MW ?

The more I read from him, the more I begin to think he's even more of a jerk than KOS (heck I like KOS more because at least he is true to himself and stands by his word, Evans just tries to twist the reality so he looks like the good guy)


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

Abrissbirne said:


> I actually agree with rashad, even though i dislike him. That whole move from Bones is a little suspect to me still...


its clear as day to anyone with a minuscule of objectivity.But most ppl hate rashad too much to care


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Rashad has every right to feel a bit pissed off about the whole situation. It's alright everyone saying he is being a baby but if any of us were in his position we'd feel like we had the piss taken out of us.

Saying that it's not really Jones' fault. It is Greg Jackson's fault for encouraging a system of fighters that wont fight each other.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Rashad should feel happy for his _*brother*_ not bitch about everything. I can't wait to see that staredown.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

I can see this might start to get ugly hopefully after the fight is over they can be friends again.


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## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

This is probably the most intriguing article I have ever written on this forum. Thank you so much for sharing and what an excellent find.

I've always loved Rashad for different reasons. I like the way he fights, I like his face, I like his sense of humour, but what I like most is his heart. He comes across as one of the most open fighters in the UFC and his honesty has always humanised him more than others. Jon Jones is a straight up snake. A slightly cleverer snake than I realised, but a snake none the less. Obviously Rashad appears very frustrated in this interview, but at the same time he is not disrespectful to either Greg or Jon, just telling it like it is. 

You can't say one to one person and then say something else in front of million of viewers as it makes you look somewhat like a bitch, which is exactly how Jones came across. Seriously Rashad, do me this solid..come out to Shook Ones Part 2 and knock this kid out once and for all in whatever round you have to. You've been in there with guys as tough and big as him and you've beaten them all except one. You're right, you don't need some big name brand camp to aid you in the fight, you just need yourself. You were triumphant against people you weren't supposed to be before Greg Jackson and you will continue to do so afterwards.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

The Dark Knight said:


> This is probably the most intriguing article I have ever written on this forum. Thank you so much for sharing and what an excellent find.
> 
> I've always loved Rashad for different reasons. I like the way he fights, I like his face, I like his sense of humour, but what I like most is his heart. He comes across as one of the most open fighters in the UFC and his honesty has always humanised him more than others. Jon Jones is a straight up snake. A slightly cleverer snake than I realised, but a snake none the less. Obviously Rashad appears very frustrated in this interview, but at the same time he is not disrespectful to either Greg or Jon, just telling it like it is.
> 
> You can't say one to one person and then say something else in front of million of viewers as it makes you look somewhat like a bitch, which is exactly how Jones came across. Seriously Rashad, do me this solid..come out to Shook Ones Part 2 and knock this kid out once and for all in whatever round you have to. You've been in there with guys as tough and big as him and you've beaten them all except one. You're right, you don't need some big name brand camp to aid you in the fight, you just need yourself. You were triumphant against people you weren't supposed to be before Greg Jackson and you will continue to do so afterwards.


Yo didn't know the UK listened to Mobb Deep...ahha! Nice!

The backstory for the pre-fight hype is gonna be a good one.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Well said DK and I agree, though I never considered myself a Rashad fan. And No-mercy, they listen to true rap (not the commerial hip-hop crap that gets played now). I met a brit in Boston once that spitted up word for word The Firm's Affirmative action, I was laughing my A off.


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

No_Mercy said:


> I swear black people have no sense of loyalty. Then again most people don't.


Dude... Really?


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

SmackyBear said:


> Dude... Really?


yeah I caught that too....but didnt feel like expounding on it.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Sekou said:


> yeah I caught that too....but didnt feel like expounding on it.


Personally, I would like to call someone a cracker ass cracker at this point:thumbsdown:


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Soakked said:


> Well said DK and I agree, though I never considered myself a Rashad fan. And No-mercy, they listen to true rap (not the commerial hip-hop crap that gets played now). I met a brit in Boston once that spitted up word for word The Firm's Affirmative action, I was laughing my A off.


True dat...

For everyone dogging my comment. It's true. Got a lot of Black Homeboyz and they say this. "Everyone is only homies when they broke. As soon as someone comes up then they go with the crab bucket routine." Aint being racist, my cousins are black. They'd laugh cuz it's true. In fact it aint even restricted to them. It's human nature. To tell me otherwise is ludicrous.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

RustyRenegade said:


> Personally, I would like to call someone a cracker ass cracker at this point:thumbsdown:


who?... me?...


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

oldfan said:


> who?... me?...


Mainly the dude claiming disloyalty among black folk. But you're as good as anyone


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

No_Mercy said:


> True dat...
> 
> For everyone dogging my comment. It's true. Got a lot of Black Homeboyz and they say this. "Everyone is only homies when they broke. As soon as someone comes up then they go with the crab bucket routine." Aint being racist, my cousins are black. They'd laugh cuz it's true. In fact it aint even restricted to them. It's human nature. To tell me otherwise is ludicrous.


Yes rap/hip hop origins of ghetto life extended from the black urban environment into all modes of class. At one point it was an identity, a voice so to speak coming from poverty stricken areas that were in many cases without hope. It became a form to express one's self through a poetic form freestlye in a given language and narrative understood by those of a similar struggle. It naturally extendend to poor whites and other races which were not originally inclined to the music, but that could relate to a certain extent.

But like almost any art form, it became commerialized and lost much of it's soul in the process. The commerialization attracted a bigger crowd with a simplified version meant to appeal to all classes. Nowadays rap has become about unrealistic materialist goals, alpha male syndrome on steriods, oversexualization, and habitual club scenes (like that's all there is to life). This, IMO ,is contributing to the corruption and dumbing down of today's youth.

Sorry for the derail


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

no your right every rapper pretty much is shite these days and snoop has sold out big time and his songs suck, we are replace with awful pop stars and fake rappers who are undercover crappy pop stars


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

No_Mercy said:


> True dat...
> 
> For everyone dogging my comment. It's true. Got a lot of Black Homeboyz and they say this. "Everyone is only homies when they broke. As soon as someone comes up then they go with the crab bucket routine." Aint being racist, my cousins are black. They'd laugh cuz it's true. In fact it aint even restricted to them. It's human nature. To tell me otherwise is ludicrous.


You're sounding really stupid right now just stop.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

vilify said:


> You're sounding really stupid right now just stop.


Aw cmon, you telling me you've never faintly experienced anything remotely close to what Rashad has. It's human morality. I'm in business and "close associates" have f***ed me over owing me tons of money. The way I equate it is it's the price of business. Live and learn. Am I bitter, hell yah, but you move on. Everybody goes through it. Either you're a young kat or you havn't been through any of those scenarios. If that's the case then consider yourself lucky. Cuz I despise backstabbing people; white, black, yellow, red, brown, purple, green aliens...whatevas. Backstabbers are the lowest form of scum. In my earlier post I said that JBJ was just in a circumstantial position, but he could have showed class.
IE:
- "could not have done this without the training with Rashad"
- "I look up to Rashad as an older brother and mentor. I was emotional when I said I'd fight em, etc...etc" 
- "even though I have this belt now which I earned, I know deep down in my heart that it should have been Rashad's shot at the title." 
- there was NO acknowledgement whatsoever and that's why the crowd/fan base will be split now. 

You wonder why KOS talks about the Crab Bucket and every rapper out there raps about why the lower income brackets never work together to come up. Do rockstars, pop singers, actors have beef the way rappers do? To some degree. Do they shoot each other though? In fact look under your nose with this fight. It's the same philosophy almost that's perpetuating that stereotype. Don't get me started cuz I'll light you up with 100 different reasons why it's true. 

Jones is hungry and wanted what Rashad had. Jones has never once acknowledged Rashad leading up to the fight. There's no doubting his talents, we all knew he would do it. It was just his approach and opinions he expressed that turns off some peeps I suppose just how some peeps are turned off by A. Silva. 

*NOTE* I am not a Rashad fan at all. It is what it is. 

JBJ had an opportunity and he SEIZED it gangster style by putting a beatdown on Shogun. It was just the way it unfolded, his approach and lack of acknowledgement that marred his road to the title sadly.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

No_Mercy said:


> Aw cmon, you telling me you've never faintly experienced anything remotely close to what Rashad has. It's human morality. I'm in business and "close associates" have f***ed me over owing me tons of money. The way I equate it is it's the price of business. Live and learn. Am I bitter, hell yah, but you move on. Everybody goes through it. Either you're a young kat or you havn't been through any of those scenarios. If that's the case then consider yourself lucky. Cuz I despise backstabbing people; white, black, yellow, red, brown, purple, green aliens...whatevas. Backstabbers are the lowest form of scum. In my earlier post I said that JBJ was just in a circumstantial position, but he could have showed class.
> IE:
> - "could not have done this without the training with Rashad"
> - "I look up to Rashad as an older brother and mentor. I was emotional when I said I'd fight em, etc...etc"
> ...


There are too many ignorant statements and contradictions in your post. Your original comment saying Black people have no loyalty because Jon Jones accepted a title shot against Shogun is very stupid and insulting. There's simply no other way to describe it. 

As for Jones, I guess you think him accepting the title shot was a bad thing? But my question is why do you attribute his "disloyalty" to the color of his skin? Is he the first person to ever fight one of his ex training partners or friends?? Does the name Vitor Belfort ring a bell? How about Chuck Liddell?



> You wonder why KOS talks about the Crab Bucket


I've never heard Kos talk about anything and I dont think any Black person considers Kos black anyway so this wouldn't apply to him.




> Do rockstars, pop singers, actors have beef the way rappers do? To some degree. Do they shoot each other though?


Did Jon Jones pull a drive-by on Rashad? Am I missing something? Seriously this is irrelevant and it shows how out of touch you really are. 



> In my earlier post I said that JBJ was just in a circumstantial position, but he could have showed class.
> IE:
> - "could not have done this without the training with Rashad"
> - "I look up to Rashad as an older brother and mentor. I was emotional when I said I'd fight em, etc...etc"
> ...


TBH this isn't really important. Both of them probably could have done things a bit differently but no one knows what exactly happened or what was said behind closed doors.



> JBJ had an opportunity and he SEIZED it gangster style by putting a beatdown on Shogun.


So you knew this all along but you just had to make a derogatory generalization anyway.


Bottom line is, I dont care what race you are or how many Black cousins or "homeboyz" you have, your statement was way out of line.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I guess you and some folks I know would have interesting, but spirited debates. It is what it is. 

I just get fired up when I hear shit like that. In case you're wondering I'm a socio major. Sad to say but some stereotypes are true. It's life. 

Are there mafias in blacks? What you're gonna say Frank Lucas, GDs, BGF, Bumpy Johnson. There's no organization period. Are there dynasties built? The sooner you guys put your pride and ambitions aside and unite then you'll make a mark. Africa is completely war ravaged, Haiti is in ruins, most are 3rd world nations who have migrated to North America through slavery. The old generations worked their asses off, but the subsequent generations did NOT want to follow in their footsteps so they seeked out riches through sports, entertaiment, vice trades among other things. They were placed in enclaves and closely watched and supervised. You wonder why a good number are brought up in the projects. This is fact KID. 

You know who I respect are the ones who don't complain about it and come up through education and sheer dedication. Someone like Robert L. Johnson, David Robinson, Michael Jordan, Hershel Walker, Russell Simmons, and Oprah. Highly intelligent people. 

JBJ is dope, but what's shown is a lack of class. I've already made a huge point that what he did was subversive. 

You got a problem then do something about it. Make your millions and donate and educate the next generation. What's wrong with our society is the lower income brackets are sucking up the tax dollars like viruses. 

K-os the rapper
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtSzpKiARrI

Read up on Louis Farrakhan, Malcom X, MLK, Black Panther Movement, then the rise of Bloods and Crips. Read up on Stanley Tookie (RIP) and even Monster. They'll all agree of what I just said. Tell me why is that every major figure head all have similar sentiments. 

Hey, we're just enjoying the ride.


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

No_Mercy said:


> True dat...
> 
> For everyone dogging my comment. It's true. Got a lot of Black Homeboyz and they say this. "Everyone is only homies when they broke. As soon as someone comes up then they go with the crab bucket routine." Aint being racist, my cousins are black. They'd laugh cuz it's true. In fact it aint even restricted to them. It's human nature. To tell me otherwise is ludicrous.


you sound like a sheltered American whom got alot of perspective about African people through the media.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

No_Mercy said:


> I guess you and some folks I know would have interesting, but spirited debates. It is what it is.
> 
> I just get fired up when I hear shit like that. In case you're wondering I'm a socio major. Sad to say but some stereotypes are true. It's life.
> 
> ...



So you ignore the fact that there are many other instances of non black fighters falling out with their teammates. Then you jump to the reason why Blacks dont have a Mafia?:confused02: Are you advocating that Jones and all the black UFC fighters start some kind of Black brotherhood movement in the UFC? What exactly would this accomplish? and are you serious?


As for Africa and Farrakhan, how does any of this relate to Jon Jones fighting Shogun for the UFC LHW belt? It doesn't. 

You really come off to me as a very prejudiced pseudo-intellectual. You are so desperate to show the world how "knowledgeable" you are even if it means posting irrelevant bullshit on an MMA site.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

vilify said:


> So you ignore the fact that there are many other instances of non black fighters falling out with their teammates. Then you jump to the reason why Blacks dont have a Mafia? :confused02: Are you advocating that Jones and all the black UFC fighters start some kind of Black brotherhood movement in the UFC? What exactly would this accomplish?
> 
> 
> As for Africa and Farrakhan, how does any of this relate to Jon Jones fighting Shogun for the UFC LHW belt? It doesn't.
> ...


*The moral of the story boils down to one simple thing. That there's no loyalty, it's all ambition. * AKA guys aren't fighting. Blackhouse are loyal to one another. Sometimes there are disagreements, but their relationships were tenuous or they had a gentleman's agreement. In this case it seemed like they did, but JBJ broke it. 

It's not pseudo when it's factual. Read up on it. 

Someday you'll experience something like this and you'll be thinking...damn...aint that a muther. 

So tell me you're sticking up for JBJ and what he stands for. You don't think he should have at least acknowledged who helped get him there. Sure he deserved it, but it was as if Rashad was completely brushed aside and deemed irrelevant. I know a snake when I see one. JBJ exudes some pious attributes, but in the same tolkien he's a young hood who wants his gold and fame one way or another. Rashad went out of his way to say that he did not want to fight em if he won. He would have moved down or moved up. Not a fan of em, but you gotta respect that sense of loyalty and brotherhood. Probably something YOU WOULD NEVER UNDERSTAND DAWG.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

No_Mercy said:


> The old generations worked their asses off, but the subsequent generations did NOT want to follow in their footsteps so they seeked out riches through sports, entertaiment, vice trades among other things. They were placed in enclaves and closely watched and supervised. You wonder why a good number are brought up in the projects. This is fact KID.
> 
> You know who I respect are the ones who don't complain about it and come up through education and sheer dedication. Someone like Robert L. Johnson, David Robinson, Michael Jordan, Hershel Walker, Russell Simmons, and Oprah. Highly intelligent people...
> 
> ...


Sorry for the selective quotes, but these statements I wanted to focus on. When it comes to the second generation not working as hard as the first; the first generation was forced to work hence slavery. The second generation was also forced to work because slavery continued on. After slavery was abolished, that generation also worked hard even with the stigma of segregation. During the civil rights movement blowback happened (due to inequality) and blacks united under banner of Black power (Nation of Islam, Black Panthers etc..). Many blacks at that time shunned white culture and felt a need to develop their own culture. And they were successful in putting together a close knit community. Places like Harlem and parts in Chicago and Detroit had plenty of successful businesses and communities, maybe not as affluent as their white counterparts, but it wasn't projectville either.

So what changed that then? One word, heroine. Don't ask me how it got to the community in large quantities (I have my opinions, but they are just that), but it did and it was concentrated mostly in the minority urban environments (white counterparts did smack too, but mostly did cocaine which was their drug of choice). Heroine caused people to lose businesses, lose wealth, and lose a sense of community. Gangs started popping up to cash in on the lucrative market and became the suppliers. Violence ensued. In the early 80's black communities started to recover somewhat, but all of a sudden crack came into the scene which in many ways was worse than smack. The cycle happened again. Many families and communities were destroyed because having a family member that either was killed by drug/gang wars, became an addict, went to jail for selling, or became terrorised psychologically(not leaving homes, not trusting neighbors etc..). 

The ones that weren't directly caught up were also affected with the nationwide recession, and the higher cost of living that followed. Projects were built primarily in their neighborhoods which kept the gene pool intact and a hopeless frame of mind alive (like minds, like struggles). Education funds and standards lowered because of lower tax revenues and welfare ran rampant. The following generations grew up under that and the rest is history. Also wanted to add 53% live with a single parent most likely due to the factors mentioned earlier in addition to other reasons(http://www.jointcenter.org/DB/factsheet/livarg.htm). What do you think happens to those kids? They start the cycle again.

It's a tragedy, but I believe eventually they will overcome their obstacles. Current poor youth in general (not exclusive to blacks) are being brainwashed by a cultural caricature of what originally out as a form of expression. I see it with whites, asians, hispanics and blacks, all following a scarface-lite type fantasy that is no longer based on reality but moreso a simulation (quite the distortion). Keep in mind a lot of this is part research, part observation, part experience, and part opinion. What I've said is focused on NYC in particular, but I doubt other high population urban environments are much different in terms of the "whole picture". I could be wrong on many fronts, again a lot of this is opinion and observation. Though I am not black (I'm second generation American with Dominican/Colombian ancestry), I grew up in the same neighborhoods and have witnessed many of the things I said here. 

Now when I talk about this subject I do not generalize all blacks; let me be clear I speak only of the poverty stricken ones, and of course there are many exceptions. I myself grew up poor, but that didn't stop me from educating myself, and I'm know plenty of other examples of others doing the same.

Sorry for the book and I know TL;DR.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Back to the subject at hand. I am not a fan of JBJ's personality (obvious), but on the same token he is 23 years old and has been given the mantle of possibly being the GOAT already. He has demolished everyone put in front of him. For him not to have an ego after doing this for 3 years and people hyping him would be highly unlikely. Eventually he will lose (everyone does) and that will bring a dose of reality into the equation. Look at what happened to Lebron. I just hope he gains balance, and keeps all the parasites away from him, because over night everyone becomes your "friend". Fame is a hard thing to adjust to and hopefully he doesn't get seduced by it. If he keeps focused, skies the limit for this kid.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

No_Mercy said:


> *The moral of the story boils down to one simple thing. That there's no loyalty, it's all ambition. * AKA guys aren't fighting. Blackhouse are loyal to one another. Sometimes there are disagreements, but their relationships were tenuous or they had a gentleman's agreement. In this case it seemed like they did, but JBJ broke it.
> 
> It's not pseudo when it's factual. Read up on it.
> 
> ...


The issue with you is your overgeneralizations and inability to see beyond race/ethnicity. This is your personal problem not mine.

However, my suggestion is that you seek help so you can at least gain some control of your natural impulses. Blurting out random racial comments is not appropriate even on the internet. Have a good day.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

RustyRenegade said:


> Personally, I would like to call someone a cracker ass cracker at this point:thumbsdown:





oldfan said:


> who?... me?...





RustyRenegade said:


> Mainly the dude claiming disloyalty among black folk. But you're as good as anyone


*You* a cracker ass cracker

Where's your racial loyalty bro?


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Soakked said:


> Sorry for the selective quotes, but these statements I wanted to focus on. When it comes to the second generation not working as hard as the first; the first generation was forced to work hence slavery. The second generation was also forced to work because slavery continued on. After slavery was abolished, that generation also worked hard even with the stigma of segregation. During the civil rights movement blowback happened (due to inequality) and blacks united under banner of Black power (Nation of Islam, Black Panthers etc..). Many blacks at that time shunned white culture and felt a need to develop their own culture. And they were successful in putting together a close knit community. Places like Harlem and parts in Chicago and Detroit had plenty of successful businesses and communities, maybe not as affluent as their white counterparts, but it wasn't projectville either.
> 
> So what changed that then? One word, heroine. Don't ask me how it got to the community in large quantities (I have my opinions, but they are just that), but it did and it was concentrated mostly in the minority urban environments (white counterparts did smack too, but mostly did cocaine which was their drug of choice). Heroine caused people to lose businesses, lose wealth, and lose a sense of community. Gangs started popping up to cash in on the lucrative market and became the suppliers. Violence ensued. In the early 80's black communities started to recover somewhat, but all of a sudden crack came into the scene which in many ways was worse than smack. The cycle happened again. Many families and communities were destroyed because having a family member that either was killed by drug/gang wars, became an addict, went to jail for selling, or became terrorised psychologically(not leaving homes, not trusting neighbors etc..).
> 
> ...


Truth. Respect homie. It's what I've been trying to say. Vilify won't admit it. I'm not some random person talking up a storm even though it seems like I'm aiming it at one particular group. But coincidentally we're dealing with just that; JBJ vs Rashad now. Kobe vs Shaq. Tiger Woods, Michael Vick, Marion Jones, OJ, Latrell Sprewell, etc. They perpetuate stereotypes that is true. That's why I mentioned celebrities/entrepeneurs who grew up in the same environment, but broke free of it and changed their mode of thinking. You're obviously one of em who understands this innately. 

Egos and ambition man. When do they ever learn...

PS: Check this clip out of Joey Crack back in the days. It's a gem...
Shit Is Real
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLVD3uMTX7I

If I had a song for JBJ it would be this: Gang Starr ---> 
Mass Appeal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9lNbNGbo24

PSS: Got cousins out in Queens. What part of NYE you from...


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## Zajebisty (May 4, 2010)

Ari said:


> There are people on this forum that honestly have no idea why Rashad Evans is one of the most disliked fighters by casual fans and hardcore fans alike, and this right here is why most people don't like him. I don't mind Evans. He's well-spoken, respects his opponents, has reverted from being a cocky thug to someone who is really dedicated to martial arts and is friendly to the fans even though they shit on him constantly. He's an arrogant SOB though. The guy literally thinks that he hung the moon and believes that he should always be accomodated for. The thing is, is that Rashad doesn't even realize that he's that arrogant. Thinking that his coach should make a decision to bring or not bring in a certain guy based on his personal opinion is something else, really.
> 
> I am a Jon Jones hater through and through. I hate his attitude, his sense of self-righteousness, his psuedo-intellectual view of himself, and his immaturity. I'll never root for Jones, even if he fights Anderson (And I despise Anderson). But the kid is talented and WANTS to get better as a fighter, and he shouldn't be allowed to because the almighty Rashad might not approve?
> 
> Please.


I agree with everything in this post. It saves me posting my opinion. Rashad is a good dude overall, but he's got a few very unlikeable qualities that's for sure.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

I have a feeling this could get ugly I hope it doesn't they both before were saying how they are great friends hope they can just be good friends again after the fight.


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## !!! (Mar 24, 2011)

I would love to see Jones bulk up 5-10kg and sets up a fight with Cain.

Jones looks like Usain Bolt!


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

No_Mercy said:


> Truth. Respect homie. It's what I've been trying to say. Vilify won't admit it. I'm not some random person talking up a storm even though it seems like I'm aiming it at one particular group. But coincidentally we're dealing with just that; JBJ vs Rashad now. Kobe vs Shaq. Tiger Woods, Michael Vick, Marion Jones, OJ, Latrell Sprewell, etc. They perpetuate stereotypes that is true. That's why I mentioned celebrities/entrepeneurs who grew up in the same environment, but broke free of it and changed their mode of thinking. You're obviously one of em who understands this innately.
> 
> Egos and ambition man. When do they ever learn...
> 
> ...



Well right now I'm living in Ozone park. Grew up in Corona, but lived in Bushwick, South Bronx (Mott Haven), ocean parkway and East Elmhurst, so I've been around. South Bronx sucked big time. Hehe I remember Mass Appeal from my JHS/HS days (I'm 32). My cousins lived in Hunts point in the S. Bronx during the grimey eighties which was crack/heroine/hookerville at the time. It's gotten better since then though.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Soakked said:


> Well right now I'm living in Ozone park. Grew up in Corona, but lived in Bushwick, South Bronx (Mott Haven), ocean parkway and East Elmhurst, so I've been around. South Bronx sucked big time. Hehe I remember Mass Appeal from my JHS/HS days (I'm 32). My cousins lived in Hunts point in the S. Bronx during the grimey eighties which was crack/heroine/hookerville at the time. It's gotten better since then though.


From the Hard To Earn Album yo...heh...heh. Man, RIP Guru and recently Nate Dogg and all the throw back artists who ever did it large...

Is Decepticons still causing havoc out there. That's what my cuz said back in the day...lolz! Can't believe B's and C's made their way out there. That's west coast! 

For real though that entire track = JBJ and probably most upcoming artists, celebrities, athletes, etc. Guru stuck to his guns and never went mainstream. Primo is dope too his producer! Well it's time to put this thread to rest and move on to the new one...haha!


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