# UFC 207: Nunes vs Rousey



## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

*Date*: December 30, 2016 
*Venue*: T-Mobile Arena 
*City*: Paradise, Nevada 


*Main Card (10 PM ET, PPV)*

Amanda Nunes vs. Ronda Rousey
Dominick Cruz vs. Cody Garbrandt
Fabricio Werdum vs. Cain Velasquez
T.J. Dillashaw vs. John Lineker
Ray Borg vs. Louis Smolka

*Preliminary Card (8 PM ET, FS1)*

Johny Hendricks vs. Neil Magny
Dong Hyun Kim vs. Tarec Saffiedine
Alex Garcia vs. Mike Pyle
Antonio Carlos Junior vs. Marvin Vettori

*Preliminary Card (7 PM ET, UFC Fight Pass)*

Tim Means vs. Alex Oliveira
Niko Price vs. Brandon Thatch​


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## COnoJojo (Dec 7, 2016)

Rousey, all the waaaaaaaaaaay.


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

What is this crap Ronda gets to do ZERO media and ZERO press conferences. I think we can stop saying Conor gets special treatment now.


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## stoney2677 (Jun 13, 2009)

TheNinja said:


> What is this crap Ronda gets to do ZERO media and ZERO press conferences. I think we can stop saying Conor gets special treatment now.


Well he still does, but so does she...


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

I don't know if it is special treatment.

Some people think Conor and Ronda who make the UFC millions, and are worth millions, should be treated exactly the same as UFC fighters most people have never heard of.

I'm not sure how that's supposed to work.

If you owned a company and had an employee that made you $30 million a year.

Would you treat that employee the same as someone earning minimum wage that made you nothing?

Probably not.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Trix said:


> I don't know if it is special treatment.
> 
> Some people think Conor and Ronda who make the UFC millions, and are worth millions, should be treated exactly the same as UFC fighters most people have never heard of.
> 
> ...


In particular lesser known fighters should maybe not complain. The less those "big stars" appear in the media, the less they overshadow the lesser known fighters. Those should be glad to get relatively more media coverage and by that increase their market value.


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## chaoticmayhem (Nov 29, 2016)

TheNinja said:


> What is this crap Ronda gets to do ZERO media and ZERO press conferences. I think we can stop saying Conor gets special treatment now.


She got a no media clause put into her contract for this fight. She felt unprepared in her last fight due to taking the fight on short notice and being run ragged by the UFC doing promotional work. The same thing happened to Conor in his lead up to the Diaz 2 fight and he missed a press conference. It's not like the UFC is paying them to promote fights.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Holy shit.

Dan Miragliotta just f'd up.

Edit or having seen the reply is was a DQ.

But Cowboy made a meal of that. I've seen fighters stone cold Ko'd get up quicker than he did.


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Either the ref or Ratner f'd up I guess. But somebody sure did.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

See, this is why we need to bring Pride rules to the UFC.

On a serious note, the ref was right, having the knee down makes him a grounded fighter regardless of whether he has one or both feet on the ground. The new rules that comes into effect next year is for hands on the ground, you need your feet and both hands on the ground to be a grounded fighter instead of your feet and one fingertip.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Poor Mike Pyle.

His head went bounce,


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Garcia with a hell of a knockout punch.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

It was like he was frozen in time for a few seconds after the KO, Brutal... time to retire, i have so much respect for Pyle, and the amount of times he has 'old man'd' his way to victory, but i think this would be a fine time to walk away.


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## HorsepoweR (Jun 1, 2007)

Don't care for Hendricks too much but he got screwed. He won that fight.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

So glad Hendricks lost.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

I want to stand up and fuking applaud the judging in that Hendricks-Magny fight, after years of being frustrated seeing 'On top = winning' judging, it's great to see this, Hendricks took Magny and and did? Nothing... not in the 1st or the 3rd, judges were on point... everyone will bitch about them when they get it wrong, i think it's fair to congratulate them when they get it spot on.


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Congrats to the guy who made weight winning such a close one.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

HorsepoweR said:


> Don't care for Hendricks too much but he got screwed. He won that fight.


Yeah, kinda surprised that the judges seem to be doing Pride style scoring for this fight.


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Nice first round between Lineker and Dillashaw. But then it got kinda one sided after that.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Sadly... i predicted that fight really well  But i wanted Lineker to win, he is just too limited for a fighter like TJ.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Cody looks really fukin calm, last time i remember someone that calm vs a long time champ, after a lot of shit talk.. was McGregor vs Aldo.


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Hell of a fight by Garbrandt, that head movement avoiding Cruz's strikes was something else.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Cruz wastes so much energy with missed and powerless punches, in between wild swings that miss too. He hasn't been the same since he came back, I saw that int he dillishaw fight too.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

hehe

:thumb01:


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

I knew Cody was the toughest guy Cruz has ever fought.

Didn't expect it to be so one sided though!

HOLY [email protected]#%.


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Forget about Ronda rousey!


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Did *not *see the fight but watched that instant result thing on Foxsports.com. Ronda's damage points started lighting up pretty quick. What happened?


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Calminian said:


> Did see the fight but watched that instant result thing on Foxsports.com. Ronda's damage points started lighting up pretty quick. What happened?


Nunes punches her in the damage points... like really hard.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Joabbuac said:


> Nunes punches her in the damage points... like really hard.


I figured she'd pick Ronda apart in the early rounds and maybe close the deal in the 3rd. Did not see a 48 sec. finish at all.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Calminian said:


> Did *not *see the fight but watched that instant result thing on Foxsports.com. Ronda's damage points started lighting up pretty quick. What happened?


That's what happens when someone who blocks punches with her face runs into a power puncher with good footwork. 
You do not stand & strike with Nunes unless you're Valentina Shevchenko.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

aerius said:


> That's what happens when someone who blocks punches with her face runs into a power puncher with good footwork.
> You do not stand & strike with Nunes unless you're Valentina Shevchenko.


Plus there was a speed and power deficit. Just watched the fight. Nunes is very comfortable on the feet, and very comfortable in the pocket with Ronda. She didn't have a chance. Totally clueless on defense.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Two arrogant pricks got beaten today, Cruz and Ronda. I loved.

Garbrandt was a monster. Complete fighter. Faster and deadlier and gave Cruz a great dose of his own medicine: provocation. Good riddance.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)




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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Woodenhead said:


>


Have to admit I had some sympathy seeing that photo, and watching those pathetic 48 seconds. She did set herself up on a huge pedestal. She did come out arrogantly yet again, not touching Amanda's raised hand. She was puffed up and got brought to earth something fierce. 

I still have pity. Very sad to watch. I think this affects her future greatly. I don't think she will ever have the star persona that was attractive to Hollywood. I hope she gets through this and has a happy life. In some ways, I hope she fights again, but only if she changes teams and makes huge improvements and humbles herself.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Calminian said:


> Have to admit I had some sympathy seeing that photo, and watching those pathetic 48 seconds. She did set herself up on a huge pedestal. She did come out arrogantly yet again, not touching Amanda's raised hand. She was puffed up and got brought to earth something fierce.
> 
> I still have pity. Very sad to watch. I think this affects her future greatly. I don't think she will ever have the star persona that was attractive to Hollywood. I hope she gets through this and has a happy life. In some ways, I hope she fights again, but only if she changes teams and makes huge improvements and humbles herself.


I don't have any sympathy. She's a shit human being whos made millions on being a bitch and a bad actor and a fraud of being the womens GOAT (even if it is young for WMMA). I'd rather feel sorry for people like liddell whos chin failed or people like cruz who lost 3 years of his career.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> I don't have any sympathy. She's a shit human being whos made millions on being a bitch and a bad actor and a fraud of being the womens GOAT (even if it is young for WMMA). I'd rather feel sorry for people like liddell whos chin failed or people like cruz who lost 3 years of his career.


Amen to that.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> I don't have any sympathy. She's a shit human being whos made millions on being a bitch and a bad actor and a fraud of being the womens GOAT (even if it is young for WMMA). I'd rather feel sorry for people like liddell whos chin failed or people like cruz who lost 3 years of his career.


No question she's guilty of all the above. That said, her star has fallen and I feel sympathy. I'd like to see her humbled and at peace eventually. I'm concerned about her mental health. 

And Liddell went out like a champ. Total respect for him.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Calminian said:


> No question she's guilty of all the above. That said, her star has fallen and I feel sympathy. I'd like to see her humbled and at peace eventually. I'm concerned about her mental health.
> 
> And Liddell went out like a champ. Total respect for him.


People like her don't get humbled, if anything that holm loss was evidence enough. Either way shes done we wont hear about her again in MMA.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> ....Either way shes done we wont hear about her again in MMA.


Or anywhere else, actually. I truly believe her career is over in and out of the cage. 

And I hope you're wrong that she'll never humble herself. I believe she will. I hope she will.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)




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## Ricardinho (Jun 6, 2009)

Just saw the fight, wow that was quick. Ronda got destroyed again on her feet, this is probably the end of her MMA career but I hope to see her back.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Calminian said:


> Or anywhere else, actually. I truly believe her career is over in and out of the cage.
> 
> And I hope you're wrong that she'll never humble herself. I believe she will. I hope she will.


I mean, theres some people theres no guesswork about humbling and shes one of them sadly.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

And people thought she would beat Cyborg.

Cyborg would have finished her in 20 seconds.

Huge thank you to Amanda who has helped 2016 go out on a positive note for me. I see her being champ for a long time.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Spite said:


> And people thought she would beat Cyborg.
> 
> Cyborg would have finished her in 20 seconds.
> 
> Huge thank you to Amanda who has helped 2016 go out on a positive note for me. I see her being champ for a long time.


Schevchenko i think wins if she beats pena to get a shot.


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

Amanda might even turn me into a fan.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Schevchenko i think wins if she beats pena to get a shot.


I think Valentina didn't look herself in the first fight between the two but I still think Nunes wins a rematch.

In other news last nights event makes the front page of the BBC where they actually reported on the card as whole. Thats a first I think. I wonder if WME influence has anything to do with it.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Wow. Embarrassing. Ronda has learnt nothing since Holly. But yeah, nicely done by Nunes.:thumbsup:


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> Wow. Embarrassing. Ronda has learnt nothing since Holly. But yeah, nicely done by Nunes.:thumbsup:


She literally looked like a punching bag. At first I thought it was an early stoppage, but the ref was just showing mercy.

I said before that the game is catching up with Rousey. I don't think there is any doubt now that it has overtook her.

Can there be any doubt now that Edmund is the worst coach in MMA? He took a diamond in the rough and turned it to dust.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Love this.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/815067697524314112


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## Andrus (Oct 18, 2011)

I enjoyed the main event very much, I figured Ronda would lose, did not see it happening in the first 48seconds of the fight though. Rogan's comment was also right on point: "She just lit Ronda up like a christmas tree." 

Cody Garbrandt looked great, looking forward to him vs TJ, should be fun


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Spite said:


> And people thought she would beat Cyborg.
> 
> Cyborg would have finished her in 20 seconds.
> 
> Huge thank you to Amanda who has helped 2016 go out on a positive note for me. I see her being champ for a long time.


I still reckon she beats Cain


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

DonRifle said:


> I still reckon she beats Cain


Nah she'll get outboxed by cain while hes on morphine in a hospital bed post back surgery


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Ronda's done, she's went full Chuck Liddell. Time to retire and do something else.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Ronda got blasted. Her striking is horrid. She wasn't even able to briefly stay out of trouble to make anything happen. She was instantly bested. She could still beat a lot of people in the division, but she is no longer the unbeatable powerhouse she was thought to be.

Also happy Cruz went down. Cody looked awesome.


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## Mark Brown (Dec 31, 2016)

I think she realised that it was all over after she got tagged the first time.
Nunes was out for blood.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Spite said:


> ...Can there be any doubt now that Edmund is the worst coach in MMA? He took a diamond in the rough and turned it to dust.


No, he is not the worst coach. All this talk is silly. He took a one dimensional fighter in Ronda and made her into a very successful champion. But she's terrible on the feet, and no coach is going to fix that. She's got 2 left hands. You need talent, and Ronda doesn't have it beyond Judo and grappling. Stop blaming the coach.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> I mean, theres some people theres no guesswork about humbling and shes one of them sadly.


Maybe not anytime soon, but even Mike Tyson became a pretty cool guy later in life. George Foreman is also a good example.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)




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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Calminian said:


> No, he is not the worst coach. All this talk is silly. He took a one dimensional fighter in Ronda and made her into a very successful champion. But she's terrible on the feet, and no coach is going to fix that. She's got 2 left hands. You need talent, and Ronda doesn't have it beyond Judo and grappling. Stop blaming the coach.


Are you kidding me?

Ronda has world class Judo, something Edmund did not teach her.

How long has she trained with him, 5 or 6 years. What skills outside of her Judo has she developed under Coach Edmund - pretty much none. All the fighters at that gym suck, and no UFC fighter is willing to touch him - don't you find that odd considering he is pretty famous?

Are you telling me that if Ronda Rousey went to one of the big teams like Tristar, ATT, or even a dedicated striking coach like Jason Perillo instead of Glendale she would still be the same fighter she is today? I very much doubt it.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Trix said:


>


Cody made Cruz look slow all night, and highlighted some of the flaws in his technique and movement that... maybe i pointed out a few years ago, i think i did... maybe ill look for the thread at some point.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

DonRifle said:


> I still reckon she beats Cain


I'll take odds on that. 

I wonder if Ronda can objectively see how her life has transpired. If she read the posts here on this forum it might trigger something. Does she retire or will she make another comeback down the line...


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Joabbuac said:


> Cody made Cruz look slow all night, and highlighted some of the flaws in his technique and movement that... maybe i pointed out a few years ago, i think i did... maybe ill look for the thread at some point.


I would like to see it.

I've noticed some of the people who post on this forum sometimes predict things months or years in advance.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> I'll take odds on that.
> 
> I wonder if Ronda can objectively see how her life has transpired. If she read the posts here on this forum it might trigger something. Does she retire or will she make another comeback down the line...


If she gets through this time with no serious harm, I think it'll a blessing. As bad as she is, she's nowhere near as bad as Mike Tyson was, and look at him now. He's a really cool humble guy (at least from what I've seen lately). This may actually transform her into a lovable character. :thumb03:


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Trix said:


> I would like to see it.
> 
> I've noticed some of the people who post on this forum sometimes predict things months or years in advance.


I talked some shit in one of your threads

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/225913-bjj-scout-breaks-down-dominik-cruzs-footwork-2.html

But i was mostly just shit talking, nothing overly technical... i said some other stuff, that was less trollish, but can't find it. 

Also weird how predictions switch up closer to fights, in this thread 

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/249241-current-champions-will-still-champion-end-2017-a.html

I was picking Cody, but close to the fight... also from hearing other smart, well spoken opinions on why Cruz will win influenced me to the point where i was picking Cruz, only giving Cody a chance if he gets it done quick.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Ronda vs Nunes for anyone who missed it.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/815106738001244160


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

For someone who basically trained boxing exclusively this time around, Ronda looked terrible in the stand up. Her head movement and foot work hasn't improved in the span of her UFC career. She's just gotten better at hitting pads and dramatically turning her fists for slow mo camera promos.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

VolcomX311 said:


> For someone who basically trained boxing exclusively this time around, Ronda looked terrible in the stand up. Her head movement and foot work hasn't improved in the span of her UFC career. She's just gotten better at hitting pads and dramatically turning her fists for slow mo camera promos.


She's improved, just not as much as the division has improved. Nunes was already better than Ronda, but it looks like Nunes improved drastically. She's hungry. She's going to continue to evolve. Ronda was likely hungry also, but there were to many deficits between these two athletes. The division has passed her by.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

VolcomX311 said:


> For someone who basically trained boxing exclusively this time around, Ronda looked terrible in the stand up. Her head movement and foot work hasn't improved in the span of her UFC career. She's just gotten better at hitting pads and dramatically turning her fists for slow mo camera promos.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Trix said:


>


If he put that video up for the laughs, he has some weird (maybe genius brainf*ck) kind of humour, if not - that explains ...a lot.

Copied from a youtube comment:

Other fighters since going to Edmond Tarverdyan's gym:

Travis Browne 2-3 
Jake Ellenberger 1-3 
Shayna Baszler: 0-3 
Jessamyn Duke 1-3 
Marina Shafir 1-2

...at least he's made Rousey look better hitting the mitts than him...

But how on Earth would experienced fighters like Browne or Ellenberger not just straight walk away from his gym during the first training session¿ At least Ellenberger left, albeit quite late.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Travis Browne, Ellenberger and Duke all appeared to lose their soul while training with him... Eddy is the eater of souls.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Voiceless said:


> But how on Earth would experienced fighters like Browne or Ellenberger not just straight walk away from his gym during the first training session¿ At least Ellenberger left, albeit quite late.


If I remember right, Edmond gets something like a 10% cut of what Ronda makes, Mike Dolce takes a 5% cut.

Ellenberger, Travis Browne and others might have a different deal with Edmond where Edmond takes less of their money than if they trained somewhere else.

Joe Rogan, Dana White and others have been around the fight game for a long time & seem to think Edmond is good coach. They've being physically present when Edmond trained Ronda.

Doesn't matter now. I would guess the truth will come out now one way or another. If he's a good coach or a bad coach.

Also saw the last "Looking for a Fight". Alfred Khashakyan who is trained by Edmond(?) lost there, too. He got finished in the 2nd* round.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Trix said:


> If I remember right, Edmond gets something like a 10% cut of what Ronda makes, Mike Dolce takes a 5% cut.
> 
> Ellenberger, Travis Browne and others might have a different deal with Edmond where Edmond takes less of their money than if they trained somewhere else.
> 
> ...


If you listen to Joe Rogan's podcast directly after 207 he says quite the opposite about Edmond. Flat out blames him for Travis Brown being terrible these days and Ronda thinking she's a striker.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Trix said:


> If I remember right, Edmond gets something like a 10% cut of what Ronda makes...


That's what I thought, yet Edmond filed that he made zero income for the year of 2015 or some shite, lol (year could be off, but it was an active Ronda year for sure). Shady dirtball that guy.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Killz said:


> If you listen to Joe Rogan's podcast directly after 207 he says quite the opposite about Edmond. Flat out blames him for Travis Brown being terrible these days and Ronda thinking she's a striker.


I saw that.

Brendan Schaub said it, if I remember right.

Even Kenny Florian seems to have 180'ed. He used to defend Edmond.

I don't take any pleasure in it, Edmond being almost universally hated. 

I just didn't want to see people getting ripped off and having their careers ruined if Edmond was a bad coach and everything I saw and heard for the last 6-12+ months seemed to hint at that being true.



VolcomX311 said:


> That's what I thought, yet Edmond filed that he made zero income for the year of 2015 or some shite, lol (year could be off, but it was an active Ronda year for sure). Shady dirtball that guy.


He can get away with that if the income wasn't filed under his name.

Mike Dolce's fee is a 5% cut and a lot of people think that's paying too much. There are a lot of guys Mike Dolce worked with once or twice who said paying Dolce 5% was too much, who then missed weight and forfeited 20% of their purse.

I've never heard of Ellenberger, Travis Browne or anyone else other than Ronda talk about how much they pay Edmond to coach them.

I would guess Edmond's fees are lower than other gyms & trainers, which is why it seemed like a good deal to them at the time.


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## Odd (Jun 18, 2016)

Calminian said:


> She's improved, just not as much as the division has improved. Nunes was already better than Ronda, but it looks like Nunes improved drastically. She's hungry. She's going to continue to evolve. Ronda was likely hungry also, but there were to many deficits between these two athletes. The division has passed her by.


Nunes has definitely improved, but she's always been a first round monster. The only think she needed to learn for this fight was to block Rondas throws.


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## Odd (Jun 18, 2016)

Calminian said:


> No, he is not the worst coach. All this talk is silly. He took a one dimensional fighter in Ronda and made her into a very successful champion. But she's terrible on the feet, and no coach is going to fix that. She's got 2 left hands. You need talent, and Ronda doesn't have it beyond Judo and grappling. Stop blaming the coach.


I'll agree and disagree. Ronda was always a champion, I would argue that she would've become champion with NO camp. She was just so athletically superior to other athletes in a green, untested division with no depth or serious talent in it. Edmond was very good at boosting her confidence, all the footage I've seen of them together has been him dousing her in praise. 

As you stated, Ronda might not have had much of a chance in striking - this is not uncommon, in any case, she should've tried to NOT stand with Amanda. In regards to her coach, listen to this moron delude himself here:






Is this what you want to hear from your coach?


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

I wouldn't be so fast to say Edmond made her into a champ. I think she has the same championship run whether she had a real coach or took group cardio kickboxing at L.A. Fitness. All of her wins were via her grappling. She never angled her way into a clinch, she just ran through punches with her face until she got hold of something and the TKO of Carreia were two women slugging it out almost completely absent of any technique and Ronda happened to connect well and harder first. That fight could have gone either way real quick. Also, all of Edmond's MMA fighters seem to go downhill with him. Ellenberger won immediately after he left Edmond. We can't blame Edmond for everything bad that happens to Ronda obviously, but he's no "MMA" coach.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Calminian said:


> No, he is not the worst coach. All this talk is silly.


Other fighters since going to Edmond Tarverdyan's gym:

Travis Browne 2-3 
Jake Ellenberger 1-3 
Shayna Baszler: 0-3 
Jessamyn Duke 1-3 
Marina Shafir 1-2﻿

That's a combined 5-14 under his tutelage. Show us a UFC fighter coach with a record that is worse.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Voiceless said:


> Other fighters since going to Edmond Tarverdyan's gym:
> 
> Travis Browne 2-3
> Jake Ellenberger 1-3
> ...


Its not just a bad record, but he took two quality fighters and turned them to shit. I don't like Travis, but he was a quality fighter before going to Edmonds - he lost via decision to Werdum in a title eliminator no shame in that. Then he went to glendale and has looked like shit since, he should be 1-4 really those eye pokes changed the Mitrione fight.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> And people thought she would beat Cyborg.
> 
> Cyborg would have finished her in 20 seconds.
> 
> Huge thank you to Amanda who has helped 2016 go out on a positive note for me. I see her being champ for a long time.


It's bollocks to talk like this now. It's like saying "And people thought Anderson would beat GSP?" after Weidman KOed him.

The concept before was that Cyborg would run right into Ronda. Either Cyborg would land, or Ronda would use it to easily grab a clinch. Now we know that Ronda can't deal with a strong shot, so Cyborg would hurt her incredibly bad with a jab most likely, but don't pretend you knew that before. The closest you saw previously was Ronda taking Miesha's shots and she wasn't overly phased by them.

@Voiceless, while I think Edmund is probably quite bad, also you need to look at those fighters. Three of those four horse women were specifically bad looking fighters. Jake Ellenberger is pretty well up there now as a fighter and has always shown extreme tentative natures. Travis Browne just won't throw punches no matter what his corner is asking of him these days.

It could have easily been the same for John Cav. Pendred was extremely awkward and lacked all slickness. Paddy was average physically in every area. Chris Fields is also very nonfluid and lacks in loads of areas. John Cav was EXTREMELY lucky that his fighters found a way to pull it off against all the odds. I'm not comparing John to Edmund cause outside of Greg Jackson I'm not even sure I've heard a more technically sound bit of corner advice than John gives but you could have at one point gave him the same kind of record before Conor went on his streak.

@Spite, those eye pokes changed the Mitrione fight because they gave a tired Mitrione an excuse to stop pushing. Mitrione was completely fine after the eye pokes and was physically hurt by Browne's shots. Mitrione should have won that fight but he threw it away himself.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> It's bollocks to talk like this now. It's like saying "And people thought Anderson would beat GSP?" after Weidman KOed him.
> 
> The concept before was that Cyborg would run right into Ronda. Either Cyborg would land, or Ronda would use it to easily grab a clinch. Now we know that Ronda can't deal with a strong shot, so Cyborg would hurt her incredibly bad with a jab most likely, but don't pretend you knew that before. The closest you saw previously was Ronda taking Miesha's shots and she wasn't overly phased by them.
> 
> ...


Sorry matey. I've been saying for ages that Rondas boxing is not that good and been saying for ages that Cyborg beats her. Go back and search my posts, you wont find one where I haven't outright said or suggested that Cyborgs beats her easily. I've even said its not a forgone conclusion that Ronda wins on the ground.

As for your mitrione comments... I will need to check the fight again, the way I remember is Matt getting poked in the eye and then being smashed in the eye with a punch which resulted in him having the fattest eye I have ever seen in my life. If thats not the way it went down, then I concede I'm remembering it wrong.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> Sorry matey. I've been saying for ages that Rondas boxing is not that good and been saying for ages that Cyborg beats her. Go back and search my posts, you wont find one where I haven't outright said or suggested that Cyborgs beats her easily. I've even said its not a forgone conclusion that Ronda wins on the ground.
> 
> As for your mitrione comments... I will need to check the fight again, the way I remember is Matt getting poked in the eye and then being smashed in the eye with a punch which resulted in him having the fattest eye I have ever seen in my life. If thats not the way it went down, then I concede I'm remembering it wrong.


I just mean using what you have now. It's absolutely fair to have always assumed Cyborg walks across the cage and smashes her face in (for a long time I thought it myself). I just meant the terminology of "and people thought...". It's not like we knew that Ronda wouldn't survive a jab then you know?

I also agree that it was never a foregone conclusion that Ronda won on the ground. Physically, if anyone was taking Ronda on the ground I think Cyborg was the one, and I include actual BJJ greats.

That was the way it went down but the poke wasn't relevant to the punch. He got poked in the eye, he got his time, he came back out looking twice as tired, and then a punch clear as day caused the damage. Once on here I even freeze framed it to prove that the damage happened instantly after the punch. The pokes probably should have been a point off, maybe winning the fight for Matt (I dunno) but the damage often cited was completely punch related. Matt was tired but completely battling through because he wanted the fight. But after the second poke, his body went for an excuse. You've probably had it yourself, you're in the gym with a slight injury and when you're tired, the injury is what makes you stop. Maybe not because the injury was risking trouble, but because you were able to say "Nah my knees fked, can't push that hard". Mitrione did that in the fight and had his excuse. Shame cause I'm a big fan of his and his style.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I just mean using what you have now. It's absolutely fair to have always assumed Cyborg walks across the cage and smashes her face in (for a long time I thought it myself). I just meant the terminology of "and people thought...". It's not like we knew that Ronda wouldn't survive a jab then you know?
> 
> I also agree that it was never a foregone conclusion that Ronda won on the ground. Physically, if anyone was taking Ronda on the ground I think Cyborg was the one, and I include actual BJJ greats.
> 
> That was the way it went down but the poke wasn't relevant to the punch. He got poked in the eye, he got his time, he came back out looking twice as tired, and then a punch clear as day caused the damage. Once on here I even freeze framed it to prove that the damage happened instantly after the punch. The pokes probably should have been a point off, maybe winning the fight for Matt (I dunno) but the damage often cited was completely punch related. Matt was tired but completely battling through because he wanted the fight. But after the second poke, his body went for an excuse. You've probably had it yourself, you're in the gym with a slight injury and when you're tired, the injury is what makes you stop. Maybe not because the injury was risking trouble, but because you were able to say "Nah my knees fked, can't push that hard". Mitrione did that in the fight and had his excuse. Shame cause I'm a big fan of his and his style.


To me it didn't matter if Rousey could survive a jab or not and at the time we didn't know what she could take. Cyborg was too much for her, way too much. People bought too much into the boxing hype and honest to god mate, I was surprised how many people bought into that crap - including so called 'Boxing fan' Joe Rogan. Don't get me wrong I don't attest to being some kind of expert in the intricacies of boxing or MMA, for the record I think your better at that stuff than me. But for the life of me I couldn't understand why people bought the Ronda can box hype... never underestimate hype I guess, even respected boxing magazine had her on the cover (sales via popularity I guess).

I'll try to check out the Browne - Mitrone fight again. I like Matt and can't stand Browne... so maybe theres some bias there.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> @Voiceless, while I think Edmund is probably quite bad, also you need to look at those fighters. Three of those four horse women were specifically bad looking fighters. Jake Ellenberger is pretty well up there now as a fighter and has always shown extreme tentative natures. Travis Browne just won't throw punches no matter what his corner is asking of him these days.
> 
> It could have easily been the same for John Cav. Pendred was extremely awkward and lacked all slickness. Paddy was average physically in every area. Chris Fields is also very nonfluid and lacks in loads of areas. John Cav was EXTREMELY lucky that his fighters found a way to pull it off against all the odds. I'm not comparing John to Edmund cause outside of Greg Jackson I'm not even sure I've heard a more technically sound bit of corner advice than John gives but you could have at one point gave him the same kind of record before Conor went on his streak.


It's probably an addition of the factors you mentioned and that Tarverdyan is just not good as a coach. Alone when you listen to John Kavanagh, you hear that he is much more open minded than Tarverdyan. He's also not shy to have other additional coaches in his gym. And SBG is an MMA gym, Glendale always sounds rather like an amateur boxing gym.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> To me it didn't matter if Rousey could survive a jab or not and at the time we didn't know what she could take. Cyborg was too much for her, way too much. People bought too much into the boxing hype and honest to god mate, I was surprised how many people bought into that crap - including so called 'Boxing fan' Joe Rogan. Don't get me wrong I don't attest to being some kind of expert in the intricacies of boxing or MMA, for the record I think your better at that stuff than me. But for the life of me I couldn't understand why people bought the Ronda can box hype... never underestimate hype I guess, even respected boxing magazine had her on the cover (sales via popularity I guess).
> 
> I'll try to check out the Browne - Mitrone fight again. I like Matt and can't stand Browne... so maybe theres some bias there.


She absolutely might have been way too much for her. My only issue is you were using knowledge you've since learned which completely wasn't shown as a way of dissing those that thought she would win. With every fight we learn more, you can't use current knowledge to discredit knowledge that wasn't yet available to discredit others.

I personally never bought into Ronda's boxing skill. I bought into her ability to weirdly hurt people, and to take them down. What I bought into was fact, we'd seen it time and time again. I didn't buy into a lie. I absolutely entirely agree with you on the "I don't get into the Ronda can box hype". I've never felt she had technical skills and if we're talking about Cyborg? Lmfao don't even try to jab...and that's not Ronda...that's all of them. 

I did buy into the hype in the end. I said Holly would beat Ronda before I ever seen Holly fight. I said Ronda would win easily before that fight. Ronda TKOing people and Holly clinching people got me. I don't actually know if that's that hype or more technical acknowledgement.

Either way, I don't disagree with a word in that post. I only disagreed with the idea that "People thinking Ronda could beat Cyborg are stupid because Ronda got KOed twice" because we didn't know a lot of what we know now when predicting that fight.



Voiceless said:


> It's probably an addition of the factors you mentioned and that Tarverdyan is just not good as a coach. Alone when you listen to John Kavanagh, you hear that he is much more open minded than Tarverdyan. He's also not shy to have other additional coaches in his gym. And SBG is an MMA gym, Glendale always sounds rather like an amateur boxing gym.


Probably right. I do have to raise questions about Ellenberger and Browne's tentativeness but honestly, I can't even think of a way where a gym attributes to that. I feel that's something the fighters need to deal with. Maybe a coach can aid that but I feel that's maybe even an external thing to initial coaching, a bit like John Cav pulling McGregor out of being a waster.


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## Odd (Jun 18, 2016)

Voiceless said:


> It's probably an addition of the factors you mentioned and that Tarverdyan is just not good as a coach. Alone when you listen to John Kavanagh, you hear that he is much more open minded than Tarverdyan. He's also not shy to have other additional coaches in his gym. And SBG is an MMA gym, Glendale always sounds rather like an amateur boxing gym.


Didn't Kavanagh let Conor prepare in Iceland at Mjölnir MMA (presumably with Gunnar Nelson)? I don't know whether Edmond would have that approach or not. 

In either case, I don't blame Edmond for this loss as much as I blame Ronda. The issues in her fight against Holly were substantive, and the fact that she never considered that speaks volumes about her fatal loyalty.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Odd said:


> Didn't Kavanagh let Conor prepare in Iceland at Mjölnir MMA (presumably with Gunnar Nelson)? I don't know whether Edmond would have that approach or not.
> 
> In either case, I don't blame Edmond for this loss as much as I blame Ronda. The issues in her fight against Holly were substantive, and the fact that she never considered that speaks volumes about her fatal loyalty.


Presumably with Gunnar and everyone else though. They all follow Conor about everywhere :laugh:

I agree about who to blame. Ronda was weaknesses and they got exploited. A camp can only do so much to help fix them, and someone has to lose. It's just a lack in Ronda as a fighter.


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