# Israeli Krav Maga in UFC



## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

Could he use any of that krav maga stuff effectively?


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## Fedornumber1! (Jun 18, 2008)

Isn't krav maga basically nhb mma?


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

UFC86 said:


> Israeli fighter Noad Lahat will be the first Israeli in the UFC and the first using krav maga. He was supposed to fight for UFC in August but got injured. He trains in AKA and is 7-0. His debut is to be set.
> 
> Could he use any of that krav maga stuff effectively?


i take krav it is basically MMA in itself so in that since yes. However it wouldn't be true krav. krav is NHB type of style where there is alot of things that wouldn't be allowed in the ufc used alot. Head buts small joint manipulation, groin kicks, vertical elbows you name it. 

So krav is a form of mma that would work with a little tweaking, however in its true form Krav is NHB self defense style.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Moti Horenstein beat him by 15 years. Krav Maga didn't do so good.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

As far as what's allowed in the octagon, I'm skeptical.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

Oh dear, I thought the UFC was done with practitioners of these sorts of fighting styles. If this guy is good, it will be because he has trained in modern MMA - I doubt anything resembling Krav Maga will be on display. He probably says he is of this style out of respect for his country of origin. When you watch demos of Krav Maga, it is extremely effective on completely compliant opponents.


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

oldfan said:


> Moti Horenstein beat him by 15 years. Krav Maga didn't do so good.


Thats true if you talk about the original UFC tournaments where they had every style.
But I meant Zuffa owned UFC. 

I just wonder if he will bring with him any Krav Maga moves similar to how Machida brought Karate moves, but I highly doubt it


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Oh dear, I thought the UFC was done with practitioners of these sorts of fighting styles. If this guy is good, it will be because he has trained in modern MMA - I doubt anything resembling Krav Maga will be on display. He probably says he is of this style out of respect for his country of origin. When you watch demos of Krav Maga, it is extremely effective on completely compliant opponents.


It's effective on ALL opponents, that's why the Israeli army uses/invented it. As for MMA, i don't think it will be too useful since most of the techniques are illegal but we'll just have to wait and see. Perhaps he found a way to adapt the style to MMA :confused02:


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> It's effective on ALL opponents, that's why the Israeli army uses/invented it. As for MMA, i don't think it will be too useful since most of the techniques are illegal but we'll just have to wait and see. Perhaps he found a way to adapt the style to MMA :confused02:


Nothing is effective on all opponents. Moti Horenstein was as good as they come and was submitted or KO'd in 6 out of 7 of his pro fights. All this fancy stuff just doesn't work. Even with all the illegal strikes I doubt they'd be competitive as their opponent could do the same to them.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Nothing is effective on all opponents. Moti Horenstein was as good as they come and was submitted or KO'd in 6 out of 7 of his pro fights. All this fancy stuff just doesn't work. Even with all the illegal strikes I doubt they'd be competitive as their opponent could do the same to them.


IDK what style you are talking about but there is nothing fancy about krav. It stay true to the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principal. Basic punches kicks take downs grappling subs and escapes. In fact it skips alot of the fancy moves by replacing them with dirty tactics like striking the balls spine back of the head attacking eyes and more. 

BJJ for instance is much more complicated and fancy. For instance if someone mounted you or was in your guard BJJ would have you work for sweeps and subs krav would have you stick you thumbs in his eyes or strike the opponent in the neck. That is precisely why it wouldn't do good in mma because the rules would get rind of allot of those moves and the muscle memory training to pull such moves would have to be overcome.


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## Thunder1 (Aug 16, 2008)

He'll do great if his opponent shows up with a gun or a knife.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> IDK what style you are talking about but there is nothing fancy about krav. It stay true to the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principal. Basic punches kicks take downs grappling subs and escapes. In fact it skips alot of the fancy moves by replacing them with dirty tactics like striking the balls spine back of the head attacking eyes and more.
> 
> BJJ for instance is much more complicated and fancy. For instance if someone mounted you or was in your guard BJJ would have you work for sweeps and subs krav would have you stick you thumbs in his eyes or strike the opponent in the neck. That is precisely why it wouldn't do good in mma because the rules would get rind of allot of those moves and the muscle memory training to pull such moves would have to be overcome.


What if the BJJ guy pokes the Krav guy in the eye. Huh, what then... 

All arts have illegal strikes. I had a guy snap my toe to try and break my guard once. Also had a guy try to break a finger. And this was just a submission tournament. I was taught nasty stuff in kung fu, too. Like throwing a handful of change into someones face. I doubt Krav has this market cornered. 

Even when the UFC had all the illegal strikes I can't think of one fight that was won because of it. Well, maybe Jon Son getting his larynx crush while having his groin repeatedly pummeled, but that was an unusual fight and how many times are you going to be in a situation like that. Still took many repeated blows for Joe to tap.

The Krav on youtube just doesn't strike me as realistic. There is definitely some overly elaborate movements and un-realistic situations with very compliant opponents. I think the level of simplicity reached in the UFC is realistic, as it works. I also think MMA reduces the learning curve for self defence. The ability to spar nearer to what you'd do in a fight...really punch, really wrestle, really kick just can't be discounted. Endless simulation drills, to me, are just like doing katas.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> What if the BJJ guy pokes the Krav guy in the eye. Huh, what then...
> 
> All arts have illegal strikes. I had a guy snap my toe to try and break my guard once. Also had a guy try to break a finger. And this was just a submission tournament. I was taught nasty stuff in kung fu, too. Like throwing a handful of change into someones face. I doubt Krav has this market cornered.
> 
> ...


First 2 paragraphs pro my point about it following the KISS philosophy. Second krav on YouTube is a joke IMO compared to what I am training. The underhanded tactics work well in street fighting and self defense not for competition I have also taken BJJ Wrestling kenpo and Kick Boxing in the past and I have to say krav is very effective for the street however never in mma because the style inclueds on several cutthroat tactics that would be illegal in mma.


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## Fedornumber1! (Jun 18, 2008)

americanfighter said:


> IDK what style you are talking about but there is nothing fancy about krav. It stay true to the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principal. Basic punches kicks take downs grappling subs and escapes. In fact it skips alot of the fancy moves by replacing them with dirty tactics like striking the balls spine back of the head attacking eyes and more.
> 
> BJJ for instance is much more complicated and fancy. For instance if someone mounted you or was in your guard BJJ would have you work for sweeps and subs krav would have you stick you thumbs in his eyes or strike the opponent in the neck. That is precisely why it wouldn't do good in mma because the rules would get rind of allot of those moves and the muscle memory training to pull such moves would have to be overcome.


Wouldn't he be setting himself up for an armbar if he tried to poke the guy in thhe eyes? Moti horenstein couldn't land any of those neck strikes you speak of either


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## Glothin (Jun 8, 2010)

*The Master of Multiple Self Defense Arts*

Chael Sonnen said it best when he responded to a question with something like "replace the word fight with compete". Stann and I will be competing against one another".

My local krav school teaches extremely effective fighting techniques (another borderline Chael quote) for businessmen and/or women to avoid getting hurt on the street. They taught my 90-pound gf an eye attacks, finger attacks and nut attacks (I refuse to even call them groin). And now she wants to spar?

MMA and the UFC for all intensive purposes as we discuss it is a sport. Generally I say 'no', but then I think 'KM could help at the bottom of a pile in Rugby or American football.' And I know wrestling techniques can help Offensive and Defensive linemen some in American football. 

The bottom line: I'll tune in to watch


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

Thunder1 said:


> He'll do great if his opponent shows up with a gun or a knife.


Yeah thats a good point, most stuff they do in Krav Maga is illegal.

I guess Noad Lahat will be using some BJJ and kickboxing techniques, which wouldnt get him further then anybody else. Hes undefeated 7-0 so good luck to him


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Remarkable amount of keyboard warriors here.


FWIW, any Krav I've seen in the states was just a moneypit franchise to attract businessmen and stay at home moms.


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## GoodfellaGr (Aug 16, 2011)

khoveraki said:


> Remarkable amount of keyboard warriors here.
> 
> 
> FWIW, any Krav I've seen in the states was just a moneypit franchise to attract businessmen and stay at home moms.


As a Krav Maga practitioner i can say for sure you don't know shit about Krav Maga. 
I can also say that i believe that krav maga will help Noad Lahat mentally but not in combat. Basically he is going to fight his own Krav Maga insticts and that's bad for him.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

GoodfellaGr said:


> As a Krav Maga practitioner i can say for sure you don't know shit about Krav Maga.
> I can also say that i believe that krav maga will help Noad Lahat mentally but not in combat. Basically he is going to fight his own Krav Maga insticts and that's bad for him.


What's the website for your school? What are your trainers accreditations? How long have you gone there?


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## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

My old kickboxing coach was a qualified Krav Maga coach under Krav Maga Survival and ran classes. It was pretty much kicking or punching attackers in the balls the whole time. It was incredible fun and probably very useful stuff for a street fight but I can't see it transitioning to MMA.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

I reckon this guy will do good. Krav is similar to ***** in that they're both a combination of different disciplines to form a new art of self defense. Plus they're both used by armies.


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> I reckon this guy will do good. Krav is similar to ***** in that they're both a combination of different disciplines to form a new art of self defense. Plus they're both used by armies.


QFT!

The UFC has also signed Russian Khabib Nurmagomedov who is 15-0 and practises *****. Its surprising the UFC doesnt have more ***** practitioners considering how well Fedor did in MMA.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

UFC86 said:


> QFT!
> 
> The UFC has also signed Russian Khabib Nurmagomedov who is 15-0 and practises *****. Its surprising the UFC doesnt have more ***** practitioners considering how well Fedor did in MMA.




Are you sure he's signed?


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## GoodfellaGr (Aug 16, 2011)

khoveraki said:


> What's the website for your school? What are your trainers accreditations? How long have you gone there?


I am practicing for 2 years under the biggest organization of Krav Maga, the one that the founder Imi started himself. IKMF search fot it if you like but i don like that kind of asking info.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Fedornumber1! said:


> Wouldn't he be setting himself up for an armbar if he tried to poke the guy in thhe eyes? Moti horenstein couldn't land any of those neck strikes you speak of either


how can a guy pull an armbar while they are locked full guard and with my thumbs in his eyes?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Krav Maga does not perfectly transition to MMA, wow, just like pure boxing doesn't, pure kickboxing doesn't as they don't prepare you to defend a TD, pure wrestling does't prepare you for submissions or to get punched in the face, pure BJJ doesn't prepare you for strikes. Every form of martial arts has holes that can be exposed and stuff that just doesn't work. That is were the entire premise of mixed martial arts comes from.


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> Are you sure he's signed?


the article says once he gets a passport he gets a UFC contract
http://www.valetudo.ru/mma/news/3521-habib-nurmagomedov-cherez-paru-mesacev-nadeyus-byt-v-ufc




GoodfellaGr said:


> I am practicing for 2 years under the biggest organization of Krav Maga, the one that the founder Imi started himself. IKMF search fot it if you like but i don like that kind of asking info.


Would you say it will transition well into the UFC?


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## GoodfellaGr (Aug 16, 2011)

UFC86 said:


> the article says once he gets a passport he gets a UFC contract
> http://www.valetudo.ru/mma/news/3521-habib-nurmagomedov-cherez-paru-mesacev-nadeyus-byt-v-ufc
> 
> 
> ...


no i think is a bad one..


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## Fedornumber1! (Jun 18, 2008)

americanfighter said:


> how can a guy pull an armbar while they are locked full guard and with my thumbs in his eyes?


I thought the krav maga guy was *mounted* and couldn't you just posture up and swim out of it? Or maybe come down with a headbutt, maybe i could bite his hands?


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Nothing is effective on all opponents. Moti Horenstein was as good as they come and was submitted or KO'd in 6 out of 7 of his pro fights. All this fancy stuff just doesn't work. Even with all the illegal strikes I doubt they'd be competitive as their opponent could do the same to them.


Krav Maga would work if the other guy was coming after you in slow motion wielding a rubber knife


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

Take what gyms teach as "MMA." Remove the wrestling. Remove the JJ. Remove the boxing/kickboxing fundamentals. Add groin kicks, throat strikes, and slow-mo evading a rubber knife or rubber gun. You have Krav Maga. 

Krav Maga is probably one of the least applicable Martial Ars (technically just a military combative) out there. Its a military combative, its not designed to be used in a cage with a ref, its designed to be used in a real-life freeform situation. And even there, its not that impressive. 

ALL military combatives, no matter which nation they're from are kind of overrated and unimpressive. I've met Marines (used to be firends with one of 'em) who can't even throw an elbow correctly, or have never heard of "head control." Who see grappling as "gay" and "useless." I've seen Youtube interviews of Krav Maga users. And their rhetoric sounds exactly tlike that the Gracie's spounted (and still do) for years. I see a Krav Maga purist being of the exact same mentality as every other purist. I look forward to watching the ass kicking. 

MMA is about being good at everything, and great at something (style). If you're a Karate guy, or a Wrestling guy, or this, or a that. And this or that is all they rely on, they get pwned. Now, if this guy, whatever base he has, actually has a developed skillset, he'll be interesting to watch, to see if/how Krav Maga makes itself apparent. But if he expects to get anywhere relying purely on Krav Maga, he might as well not even sign.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Take what gyms teach as "MMA." Remove the wrestling. Remove the JJ. Remove the boxing/kickboxing fundamentals. Add groin kicks, throat strikes, and slow-mo evading a rubber knife or rubber gun. You have Krav Maga.
> 
> Krav Maga is probably one of the least applicable Martial Ars (technically just a military combative) out there. Its a military combative, its not designed to be used in a cage with a ref, its designed to be used in a real-life freeform situation. And even there, its not that impressive.
> 
> ...


Yeah!!!

knowing something is better than nothing, but MMA is the fastest route to useful self defence. You have to do some real time training or you will never be able to defend yourself in re-life situations - you need to hit and be hit, choke and be choked. Nothing I ever studied prior to BJJ, kickboxing and boxing was really of any use. They were all to rigid in their reactions to preordained situations. The moment you try and spar with it, you are at sea. MMA is what works. All the garbage has been thrown away and you react with a fluidity that just doesn't exist in these "traditional" arts.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Take what gyms teach as "MMA." Remove the wrestling. Remove the JJ. Remove the boxing/kickboxing fundamentals. Add groin kicks, throat strikes, and slow-mo evading a rubber knife or rubber gun. You have Krav Maga.
> 
> Krav Maga is probably one of the least applicable Martial Ars (technically just a military combative) out there. Its a military combative, its not designed to be used in a cage with a ref, its designed to be used in a real-life freeform situation. And even there, its not that impressive.
> 
> ...


I think if it were an effective foundation for an MMA fighter, we would have seen ample evidence of that by now.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Take what gyms teach as "MMA." Remove the wrestling. Remove the JJ. Remove the boxing/kickboxing fundamentals. Add groin kicks, throat strikes, and slow-mo evading a rubber knife or rubber gun. You have Krav Maga.
> 
> Krav Maga is probably one of the least applicable Martial Ars (technically just a military combative) out there. Its a military combative, its not designed to be used in a cage with a ref, its designed to be used in a real-life freeform situation. And even there, its not that impressive.
> 
> ...


In my training krav is not at all like that. It has basic kickboxing wrestling BJJ and clinch work. Combatives is only a part of the training. In my gym we have krav level 1 (which is basic kickboxing and groundwork) krav level 2 (more dificult kickboxing and grappling with sparring and grappling). Very in each class we may go through one actual combative routine. Most of the class is aimed at improving striking and grappling with a little comentary self defense tactics. 

Maybe it's busts different at my gym because the trainers are actualy mma fighters so maybe the do things their own.


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## Hennessy (Feb 28, 2011)

thing is, that krav itself is just a collection of techniques that work.
It is not a martial art in itself it is more a system how to use things from various martial arts effectively in the street.

can it work in the octagon? not really sure what to say, a lot of krav techniques are not allowed in the cage (throat punching, chocking etc)

also, krav is made for fighting various opponents. you are being trained to always move and strike fast and effective to end the "fight". that being said, the takedowns taught in krav maga are very different from the basic wrestling takedowns in mma. same goes for submissions. in krav you have to execute this very fast to get right up again after the taken down opponent is not able to fight anymore and take care of the other enemies.

So dunno here, like for most of the styles, certain parts can work but overall I guess we are now at a time where mma is a style in itself. so in my book, if you train mma you are always far better off being victorious in the competition than just using your own particular style.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

swpthleg said:


> I think if it were an effective foundation for an MMA fighter, we would have seen ample evidence of that by now.


Yep.


The only thing we've seen in years that was a new "effective" thing was that teepercut that Silva and Machida made famous, now being used and taught in multiple places.


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

swpthleg said:


> I think if it were an effective foundation for an MMA fighter, we would have seen ample evidence of that by now.


I guess we'll have the first opportunity in modern UFC with Noad Lahat. Let's wait and see


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