# WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS***OFFICIAL*** BJ Penn vs. Frankie Edgar Pre/Post Fight



## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

*Please conduct ALL of your discussion in regards to BJ "The Prodigy" Penn facing Frankie "The Answer" Edgar in this thread. All threads made in regards to this fight will be merged into this one.*​
This thread will be merged with the other thread after the replay airs.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

vbookie: http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc-vbookie-betting/74373-bj-penn-vs-frankie-edgar.html


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## Parabola (Jan 20, 2010)

Penn will most likely win this fight. I'm a big fan of both Penn and Frankie. I expect a great fight.


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## T.Bone (Oct 15, 2008)

Penn's too big and too good for Frankie, I fully expect him to dominate and get the stoppage in the later rounds.

I like Frankie and he's a great fighter but Penn's just a better version, and he's a lot bigger. 

Frankie's got solid wrestling but Penn's so good at staying on his feet (unless he's fighting GSP) I don't see it being a factor at all, in fact he'll probably take Edgar down at will.

Penn RNC rd 3.


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## Parabola (Jan 20, 2010)

T.Bone said:


> Penn's too big and too good for Frankie, I fully expect him to dominate and get the stoppage in the later rounds.
> 
> I like Frankie and he's a great fighter but Penn's just a better version, and he's a lot bigger.
> 
> ...


This fight will probably not go to the ground. In BJ's previous fights, he kept his fights standing and he out-boxed his opponents. I don't see why he would want to take the fight to the ground (although when did take it to the ground in his previous fights, he finished his opponents rather easily).

Don't underestimate Frankie. He will put up a better fight against BJ than his previous opponents, but Frankie will still lose.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Edgar's got fast hands and good technical boxing, but I don't see him having a chance at beating BJ Penn. Should be more of a domination than GSP-Hardy. I expect Penn to finish Edgar in the 3rd.


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## MMA-Matt (Mar 20, 2010)

I've got Penn winning this one although Edgar will put up a decent fight (hopefully, for our sake)


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## T.Bone (Oct 15, 2008)

Parabola said:


> This fight will probably not go to the ground. In BJ's previous fights, he kept his fights standing and he out-boxed his opponents. I don't see why he would want to take the fight to the ground (although when did take it to the ground in his previous fights, he finished his opponents rather easily).
> 
> Don't underestimate Frankie. He will put up a better fight against BJ than his previous opponents, but Frankie will still lose.


I'm not under-estimating Frankie, I said he's a great fighter and he has got very good boxing it's just Bj's is probably some of the best in MMA.

And yeah I also think the fight will stay standing until BJ swarms on him. I should've said BJ *could* probably take down Edgar at will if he wanted to.


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Edgar taking the belt here would be a bigger upset than GSP/Serra. Anywhere the fight goes I can't see Frankie getting the better of BJ. I see a second or third round TKO.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

I'm expecting a really good striking match until BJ decides its time to take him down and sub him in the third or fourth. Should be the most entertaining title defense from him in a while.


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## Pound&Mound (Dec 10, 2007)

luckbox said:


> Edgar taking the belt here would be a bigger upset than GSP/Serra. Anywhere the fight goes I can't see Frankie getting the better of BJ. I see a second or third round TKO.


No it wouldn't because Frankie actually earned the title shot


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

Gotta back my boy Frankie, but unfortunately I see a demolition by BJ. Odds'll be ridiculous though, definitely gonna put a couple K on Frankie.


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## Wombatsu (Jul 10, 2006)

if you had to put a game plan together for BJ Penn you would think he might box for 1-2 rounds then perhaps round 3 onwards look for the TD. You would expect BJ would have a bigger advantage on the ground than the feet so this would make sense. Prediction: BJ Penn by 3rd or 4th round submission.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

BJ Penn will do what he always does: box with Edgar until he manages to hurt him, then go for a RNC.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

hellholming said:


> BJ Pell will do what he always does: box with Edgar until he manages to hurt him, then go for a RNC.


This is my prediction as well. I think that he outclasses Edgar in every aspect of the fight.


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## chrisbeth (Apr 4, 2010)

*Penn For the Win*

I really expect BJ to end this before the 3rd round, most likely by submission. I guess we will see though! :confused02:


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

I don't think if Edgar beat Penn that it would be a bigger upset than when Serra beat St. Pierre. I think that Penn will win, but Edgar has proven himself against solid competition and earned the title shot that he is getting. His wrestling is better than Penn's and he does have very good hands while also being fast on his feet.

They both have something in common, they both convincingly outstruck Sherk so that leads me to believe that Edgar will manage to put up a better fight on his feet than Sherk did. I could see him having a similar game plan as Sherk, and that is trying to box with Penn. Edgar's good wrestling should be good enough to keep it standing for a while and I could see him possibly trying to use his speed to out strike Penn. I never said that I believe that it would work, though. I think Penn has superior hands, power, and i assume that he has more reach as well.

Penn has a great jab and he will probably be looking to throw that a lot to keep the smaller Edgar from getting inside. Penn also has a good chin and with Edgar's lack of power, I don't think that Penn will be too worried about getting tagged.

I think that this fight may be fairly competitive on the feet with BJ Penn getting the better of the exchanges. With his advantages to go with that, it wouldn't surprise me if he eventually hurts Edgar and manages to finish him on the ground with a submission if not a technical knock out.

This should be exciting in my opinion.


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## MooJuice (Dec 12, 2008)

if edgar wins, tho i don't think he will, i wonder if it will re-invigorate penn at 155 or make him commit to a move to 170...?


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## the ultimate (Mar 5, 2007)

Although BJ will most likely win, I don't think Edgar is that big an underdog. 

He has great wrestling and boxing, he completely nullified the threat of Sean Sherk by out-boxing him and stopping his attempted take-downs. If BJ gets him down, it's all over though. 

Also, Frankie's chin is untested I think so although BJ will probably be able to hurt him, it's still an uncertainty.

I'm going for BJ Penn to win a decision.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Looks like BJ Penn is training hard and isn't taking Edgar lightly. On one of the rare occasions I think he might actually be the bigger fighter...lolz! Lets see if he mixes it up and actually goes for the take down.


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## The Legacy (Aug 14, 2008)

This is another fight that I'm excited for, despite the champion being a massive favourite. Frankie Edgar is rightly the big underdog, but he is a well rounded fighter with very good striking so this is a test for BJ Penn and it would be another good name for him to add to his list of victims. 

I'd love to see Frankie attack the legs of BJ and hurt his standing leg. He leaves it out to dry with his traditional boxing stance but not many look to take advantage of it. Frankie's best chance of winning is to wear BJ down slowly but steadily. But hell, we said that about Kenny Florian and Diego Sanchez as well, it's easier said than done and BJ's cardio isn't a problem at lightweight these days.

Expect BJ to come out fast, land a big punch in the first few minutes of the fight and then gradually wear Frankie down with superior boxing. In the third or fourth round BJ should be able to hurt Frankie again, swarm on him and finish the fight off with a rear naked choke.

This could be the last time we ever see BJ fight at lightweight so make the most of it while you can. A truly great fighter.


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## KittenStrangler (Mar 26, 2010)

Do the people voting for Edgar honestly believe he's going to win or are they just hoping?


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

I have a strange feeling, one of the champions will lose his belt this week-end. Maybe i am just crazy :confused03:

Annyway...Penn-Edgar.
I think BJ is the favourite for this one, no doubt. Not just because he is the champion, but because he is the more experienced fighter, the bigger fighter, he is more explosive, more technical....more "everything", if i can put it this way.
But I have to admit Frankie Edgar has emerged as a very deserving contender: big heart, great determination, good skills. He seems to be a very good challenge for BJ. 
Honestly, i don't know where his best chances are. On one hand, you could say his boxing could give offer him some chances, but BJ has sick boxing skills. On the other hand, GSP showed how BJ can be beaten (but i don't wanna go there...). Edgar dosn't have GSP's wrestling skills, he dosn't have GSP's power, therefore i can't say taking BJ down would be a good choice, consiedering BJ has incredible BJJ.
So, how can Edgar win this?!?
IMO, he should use his boxing, even though i've mentioned BJ's boxing is top class. But i think, Edgar has the ability to close the distance with his speed, get in, close enough to land some quick combinations, and then "get out of there". Or get these combinations and then try to use some boxing in the clinch. This could get him taken to the ground, but ... hell, he needs to do something. 
But in the end, his best chance is, not to let BJ do his usual business in the cage. BJ shouldn't be allowed to get into his rhythm. That's what destroyed Florian and Sanchez. 

But i guess, he will do everything in his power in order to demonstarate he is worthy of his nickname. :thumb02:
If he beats BJ, he trully is "THE ANSWER" !


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

The last time both champs fought on the same card both won.

BJ vs Florian
Anderson Silva vs Griffin although it was a LHW.

This is gonna be an action packed fight at such a high pace! I predict BJ Penn will take em by the fourth and submit him.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I had a dream edgar KO's bj, knocks him cold. xD

I also had a dream about my mom, spent some time with her and treated her to a good time.

Bj is going to dominate edgar.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

osmium said:


> I'm expecting a really good striking match until BJ decides its time to take him down and sub him in the third or fourth. Should be the most entertaining title defense from him in a while.


This is kinda what I expect. Not sure about submitting him though. BJ may just inevitably KO him.


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Come on BJ! Bring the belt back home to Hilo!


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

C'moooooooon Frankie


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Why does everyone keep bringing up Edgar's striking? So what if it's "good". It's not on the same planet as BJ's. Forrest Griffin's striking is "good". Didn't stop the debacle in Philadelphia.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Gotta go with BJ, but I expect one hell of a fight. 

Frankie came to play.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Why does BJ have a nervous look on his face and a taped up knee?


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Frankie would so pwn at 145, it'll be crazy if he can pull this off. 

Does anybody else find it weird to see the Saudi attire in the crowd? I want to see some Affliction desert getup


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Edgar has already landed more than Diego did in how many rounds?

Man Frankie Edgar looks fabulous!!, He is losing but he is looking like he belongs in that cage something nobody has done at LW in a long time.


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## deanmzi (Oct 15, 2006)

tough first round to call, I think other then the leg kicks though BJ got the cleaner strikes


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

I'm amazed by Frankie's performance. He was winning the earlier part of the round. BJ won that round and will eventually win the fight but I'm still very impressed with Frankie.


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

I'm giving the round to BJ, a bit nervous about the cut though. Frankie looked like he belonged in the cage with a champion, no doubt.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

You know that TD depending on how they scored it may actually give Edgar the round.


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## deanmzi (Oct 15, 2006)

that takedown may have woken up BJ a bit


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

deanmzi said:


> that takedown may have woken up BJ a bit


I hope so. He's not fighting poorly in any way but he's not doing as good as he should be.


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

BJ doesnt seem to be on top of his game tonight. Second round could go either way.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

BJ's landing, but Frankie is doing really good. Penn should try and take him down if his knee is bummed.


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## Guymay (Jul 6, 2009)

give frankie year or two he will hold that belt . no one brought it to penn like this since the gsp fight .


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

Terry77 said:


> Frankie would so pwn at 145...



Frankie vs Aldo would be sick.


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## deanmzi (Oct 15, 2006)

i keep waiting for BJ to turn it on, but nothing


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

BJ is taking the center of that cage and Edgar is just a constant ball of motion. 

BJ's corner saying take him to the ground, well then.


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Come on BJ, time to turn it on!


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## deanmzi (Oct 15, 2006)

something tells me this more of the old BJ then the new BJ


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## deanmzi (Oct 15, 2006)

kinda wonder what the hell BJ is thinking - going to give the title away


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

deanmzi said:


> something tells me this more of the old BJ then the new BJ


lol, would you relax. Fighters _can_ have off nights, you know. Even champions.

That a half assed BJ Penn is still on his way to defeating the best Frankie Edgar we've ever seen should say something.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I think BJ's knee is messed up but I don't think its the one that is taped. I think that is all smoke and mirrors.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

BJ needs to take it down to the ground, and finish him....why not use your strenghts????


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

Cmon BJ!


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## Redline7 (Mar 28, 2010)

Frankie is doing great, I hope he keeps it up!


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Not liking this one bit. I have no idea what the scorecards look like by now.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

whoa, bj gets taken down.....he's losing this fight i think...he's knee must not be 100%...he needs to take this fight down.

wtf is he doing, edger is too quick on the feet, take it down, and tap him out/

bj seems like he's confident in a desision win, i'm not.


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## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

2 - 2 on my scorecard.


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## Guymay (Jul 6, 2009)

Let's just hope it's not going to be rua-machida all over again .


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## deanmzi (Oct 15, 2006)

Canadian Psycho said:


> lol, would you relax. Fighters _can_ have off nights, you know. Even champions.
> 
> That a half assed BJ Penn is still on his way to defeating the best Frankie Edgar we've ever seen should say something.


I think the refs may give it to Edgar after this 5th round


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Hellboy said:


> 2 - 2 on my scorecard.


Same... makes for a fairly intense fifth round, lol.

I'm sure BJ knows it's time to turn things up... question is, can he physically do so?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

BJ's knee is definatly jacked watch when he steps back after kicking you can tell it hurts. Not the taped knee though the other one.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

why isn't bj shooting for a takedown? i have no clue, stupied gameplan for sure.

I defintly whouldn't be surprised if edgar gets this desision, come on bj wtf?


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## deanmzi (Oct 15, 2006)

BJ wtf


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## Guymay (Jul 6, 2009)

3-2 can be either way tough . really hard fight to score .


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

frankie edgar my new favorite fighter hell yeah


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Oh my god, I am speechless. Win, lose or draw, Frankie Edgar is the man.


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Fucks sake BJ. What the ****. I think you just lost your belt.


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## Guymay (Jul 6, 2009)

amazing . no words .


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

wooooooow, good for Edgar!


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## deanmzi (Oct 15, 2006)

50-45 wtf


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

holy shit FRANKIEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Wow...


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Fuckfuckfuckfuck


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

When's the rematch?


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## Redline7 (Mar 28, 2010)

WOW! Great job Frankie!


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## bAz666 (Feb 17, 2008)

Holy Shit


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## Dakota? (Dec 27, 2009)

Lol, i never liked BJ.... good for Frankie.....


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## kilik (Oct 12, 2007)

Wow! 50 - 45 from one judge aswell


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

I'm absolutely gutted. This sucks big time.


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

What... the hell... I can't believe it...
God.. Gonna cry tonight... ;(


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## Gyser (Oct 13, 2009)

holy shit well played frankie, immense!


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## JMAT (May 15, 2009)

*Bj Penn Vs Edgar. ***spoliers*****

edgar Wins Via Un Decision!!!!

edit: can a mod edit my title, got to excited and couldn't spell correctly.


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## UFCFAN89 (Jan 20, 2010)

Haha wow really, a 50-45? BJ lost ALL 5 rounds?

Well done Frankie, much closer than the scores though.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Who the **** scored that 50-45? Fire that man.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Can anyone say RE-MATCH? lol


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

kilik said:


> Wow! 50 - 45 from one judge aswell


That was ridiculous. Frankie made BJ look mad flat footed though


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

waaaaaahooooooooo


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## ThaFranchise (Dec 24, 2007)

Was I the only one who had it 49-46 BJ?


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## Guymay (Jul 6, 2009)

bigger than serra-gsp?


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

Wooooooooooooooo Frankiiieeee YEAAHHHHHH!!!!!!

Great job, so proud right now ...


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## R3353 (Aug 10, 2009)

WoW! im speechless!


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## the ultimate (Mar 5, 2007)

Had Frankie winning 48-47. Awesome performance, delighted for him.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

What's the point of this thread?


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I just lost a ridiculous amount of credits, lol. 

Well in to Frankie, but BJ was obviously off his game. Definitely opens up the LW division, though. Should we now expect to see Florian vs. Penn for number one contention? Or does Florian get the next shot? Penn vs. Gomi? This might actually be a good thing... we've not had a breath of fresh air in so many divisions for so long. And I've little doubt that Penn will be champion again by late 2010 or early 2011, so his fans needn't be too upset.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

HOLY SHIT, bj didn't even seem like he cared in that fight....take the fuckin fight down and use your BJJ, wtf is wrong with you????


WOW, good for edgar. bj wasn't at 100% though. can't wait for the rematch.


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

kilik said:


> Wow! 50 - 45 from one judge aswell


 just a lot more action coming out of him. and the end pretty much sealed it


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## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

I fully expected a Machida/Shogun type decision. 

But yes, shocking.


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## Jesy Blue (May 8, 2009)

6 of us!!!! 6 of it said it could be done!
12 of us put our creds where our mouths are!

and yes, Frankie indeed had THE ANSWER to BJ Penn!!


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

ThaFranchise said:


> Was I the only one who had it 49-46 BJ?


That's exactly how I scored it. I'm going to have to watch that fight again because I thought it was close but still a clear win for BJ.


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## Dakota? (Dec 27, 2009)

Guymay said:


> bigger then serra-gsp?


Nah, he didnt finish the fight. If he finished it it would be more surprising.


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## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

I'm in shock, holy sheet. Seemed like a hard fight to judge and BJ didn't seem in danger but he didn't really aggressive either so Gratz to Edgar (who had an excellent game-plan!)


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## Soldier16 (Jun 17, 2007)

i am soooooo shocked ... bj´s cardio was shit!!! ... gassed in the 4th round ... damn whats up with bj?


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

Ok, I've never been a BJ supporter, but....

He looked completely "off" and lethargic.

Injury (knee tape) or plain old poor preparation / overconfidence???


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Guymay said:


> bigger then serra-gsp?


Nah. Frankie is really fast, solid wrestling and as seen a pretty good boxer. BJ look flat footed and out of it, but thats the case with Penn sometimes.


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## Pound&Mound (Dec 10, 2007)

2 and 4 was definitely BJ's.

1-3 was either way.

5 was edgar's.

50-45 judge needs to get fired.


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

Frankie came to fight and put on a clinic. WAR FRANKIE!!!


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

One judge scoring this fight 50-45 is absolutely horrible and makes no sense whatsoever. Still, as a massive BJ fan, I have to say Frankie deserved this win.

Wow. Just wow. I lost all my credits aswell. This is a disaster.


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## BigPont (Nov 19, 2007)

Where did they get these judges? I had it 48-47 Penn. That 50-45 is very suspicious to me.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

ThaFranchise said:


> Was I the only one who had it 49-46 BJ?


48-47 over here. BJ seemed injured to be honest.
He got a bad decision but he couldn't gotten it to the ground and won the fight had he listened.


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

My friends that I am watching this with are ******* ass's and this sucks sooo much



and frankie won the fight so stop all that nonsense and this is from the biggest bj penn nuthugger


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

chosenFEW said:


> holy shit FRANKIEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


No kidding, holy shit indeed. I thought it was just a matter of time before BJ turned it up and crushed him, but it never happened.

Amazing fight by Frankie, he showed great patience & tactics in winning the fight. Didn't chase after BJ, used his footwork to get in & out, and changed things up enough to keep BJ guessing. Congrats to Edgar, he did great job.


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## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

What the **** were those Sherdog clowns looking at ? 


> Round 1
> Penn stands in the center of the Octagon as the challenger circles around him. Both fighters seem tentative to let their hands go through the first 90 seconds. The lightweights trade jabs and Edgar misses a front kick. Edgar grazes a left hook off the chin of Penn. Edgar shuffles his feet and scores with another left hook. Edgar sneaks in a low kick. Edgar shoots and Penn stuffs it. Penn roughs Edgar up with some brief dirty boxing before Edgar retreats. Edgar steps forward and Penn scores with a left. Penn lands a right hand. Edgar again comes forward and Penn connects with a left hook. Penn jabs and lands. Penn has a small ding under his left eye.
> 
> Jordan Breen scores the round 10-9 Penn
> ...


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## tasshal (Oct 1, 2006)

ok, so immediate rematch, bj actually trains this time, bj retains title and retires...


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## Danomac (Oct 15, 2006)

50 - 45 is retarded but Frankie clearly won that fight. I thought BJ still looked good it's just Frankie looked waaaaay better. Frankie = cardio machine. Damn.


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## Gyser (Oct 13, 2009)

BJ's mind was at WW already imo, that or his got some kind of injury, sub-par performance from him considering his last 2 fights, I'm just hoping we dont get another BS Serra-GSP immeadiate re-match, let Frankie defend his belt against other opposition, lost loads of credits but WAR EDGAR.


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## Soldier16 (Jun 17, 2007)

what the **** .... bj


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

luckbox said:


> One judge scoring this fight 50-45 is absolutely horrible and makes no sense whatsoever. Still, as a massive BJ fan, I have to say Frankie deserved this win.
> 
> Wow. Just wow. I lost all my credits aswell. This is a disaster.


Hehe I threw 50k on Edgar


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Holy ******* Wow!!!!!


Awesome!!!!


EDIT: HOLY SHIT HELLBOY!? Wtf is shitdog on!?

I had it 48-47 Frankie, won the last 3 IMO. 2nd could've gone either way, first went to Penn.


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## ThaFranchise (Dec 24, 2007)

Dude I thought BJ clearly won this, for first 3 rounds he stood in the center of the octagon and landed the best of every exchange...Im shocked


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

can someone please explain to me why bj penn didn't just take this fight to the ground every round???

why didn't he listin to his corner, so frustrating, i'm bummed. 

50-45 is laughable, was very hard to score, but edgar by 1 round. dum gameplan from bj.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I gave the fight to bj as well, I thought he took 3 rounds against 1 close round i gave to edgar and the 5th round easily for edgar.


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## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

It was 2 - 2 coming into the 5th. 

50 - 45 is a complete joke.


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## Jesy Blue (May 8, 2009)

Indestructibl3 said:


> Hehe I threw 50k on Edgar


and with the 4.5 odds, you sir are a rolling in creds!
woo to-the-mutha-f'n hoo!


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Im am F****ing speechless. I knew Edgar was game but he looked incredible. 

I still think BJ's leg is messed up though.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Hellboy said:


> What the **** were those Sherdog clowns looking at ?


It was a close fight, BJ landed the harder punches Frankie was more active which along with cage humping is good scoring criteria in the UFC


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## Guymay (Jul 6, 2009)

dudeabides said:


> When's the rematch?


instant rematch imo .


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## JMAT (May 15, 2009)

Perhaps Edgar is on to something, cutting weight isn't as great as everyone makes it out to be :confused02:


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

JoshKnows46 said:


> can someone please explain to me why bj penn didn't just take this fight to the ground every round???
> 
> why didn't he listin to his corner, so frustrating, i'm bummed.


Agree, IMO BJ's weakness has always been the mental game.


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## Gyser (Oct 13, 2009)

Guymay said:


> instant rematch imo .


I don't think this is as dubious as the Rua/Machida fight, let Edgar defend his belt against Ken Flo or someone else who is worthy.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Gyser said:


> BJ's mind was at WW already imo, that or his got some kind of injury, sub-par performance from him considering his last 2 fights, I'm just hoping we dont get another BS *Serra-GSP immeadiate re-match, let Frankie defend his belt against other opposition, lost loads of credits but WAR EDGAR.*


Well in all fairness, this was a decision with ridiculous scoring. Serra actually finished GSP. Either way, I see BJ getting a rematch rather quickly, earning it or not.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

JoshKnows46 said:


> can someone please explain to me why bj penn didn't just take this fight to the ground every round???
> 
> why didn't he listin to his corner, so frustrating, i'm bummed.
> 
> 50-45 is laughable, was very hard to score, but edgar by 1 round. dum gameplan from bj.


Because I am telling you the leg is jacked and he didn't want to risk grappling.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I bet all my credits on this fight, thinking Silva vs. Maia was the riskier of the two, lol.

I know the Penn fans are bummed, and I am too, as I do like BJ... but only good things will come from this. Immediate rematch or road to redemption... either way, the division just livened up. Now, if Anderson loses, we're sitting pretty


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## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

JoshKnows46 said:


> can someone please explain to me why bj penn didn't just take this fight to the ground every round???
> 
> why didn't he listin to his corner, so frustrating, i'm bummed.
> 
> 50-45 is laughable, was very hard to score, but edgar by 1 round. dum gameplan from bj.


I'm a little confused as well, at least BJ could have gotten aggressive or something but he seemed content to jab and counter.


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

Congrats to Edgar either way... and I lost $$$ thanks to Penn (and Veach)...

But if these judges were on the first Machida-Shogun fight, Machida would be trying to reclaim his title in a month ;p

Just reinforces that... YA GOTTA FINISH FIGHTS!


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## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

You have to laugh at the "Take him down now BJ" posts. 

It's not like Edgar is a Florian with no TDD.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

Terry77 said:


> It was a close fight, BJ landed the harder punches Frankie was more active which along with cage humping is good scoring criteria in the UFC


It was a close fight and Edgar was very active but he hardly landed anything. Being active doesn't mean that much when BJ beats you to the punch every time. 

I'll reserve judgement until I watch it again but I was floored by that decision and I hate Penn. I just didn't think Edgar really hit Penn much, he bounced around a lot and threw a ton of faints but punches actually landed seemed really low. I want to see compustrike numbers.


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## JoshKnows46 (Jun 18, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Agree, IMO BJ's weakness has always been the mental game.


he was just to stuborn to take it down, too proud imo...i'm speechless, come on bj, use all your tools, please.

FUUUUUCCCCK


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

JoshKnows46 said:


> can someone please explain to me why bj penn didn't just take this fight to the ground every round???
> 
> why didn't he listin to his corner, so frustrating, i'm bummed.


definitely, i was surprised that bj ignored them. especially seeing his face with welts on them. bj couldve potentially pulled out a sub


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Gray Maynard is happy right now. Florian, too.


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> I bet all my credits on this fight, thinking Silva vs. Maia was the riskier of the two, lol.


lol, I know right... I went all in on BJ cause I though Maia might pull it off..


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Gray Maynard is happy right now. Florian, too.


Think about it Maynard has beaten Edgar and should be the top contender. He is practically guaranteed a shot now.


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## Jesy Blue (May 8, 2009)

so who gets fight of the night, this or Hughes/Gracie?
i say this as it's bigger.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Jesy Blue said:


> so who gets fight of the night, this or Hughes/Gracie?
> i say this as it's bigger.


Dos Anjos and Grove IMO. Or this.


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## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

This is the end of BJ's great standup crap, this is the end of his dominating his division the most crap, and this is the very end of any p4p list crap for BJ. He got owned in every round. Just got tooled on his feet, where was this great complete fighter and his BJJ, wrestling, etc. God I loved watching him getting his ass handed to him and there was nothing he could do. And now its time for losers to blame judges and refs as losers always do, go on you know you want to:happy03:


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

machidaisgod said:


> This is the end of BJ's great standup crap, this is the end of his dominating his diviion the most crsp, and this is the end of any p4p list crap for BJ. He got owned in every round. Just got tooled on his feet, where was this great complete fighter and his BJJ, wrestling, etc. God I loved watching him getting his ass handed to him and there was nothing he could do.


As much as I like seeing BJ lose, I wouldn't call that weak sparring exhibition "getting tooled":sarcastic12:


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

machidaisgod said:


> This is the end of BJ's great standup crap, this is the end of his dominating his diviion the most crsp, and this is the end of any p4p list crap for BJ. He got owned in every round. Just got tooled on his feet, where was this great complete fighter and his BJJ, wrestling, etc. God I loved watching him getting his ass handed to him and there was nothing he could do.


Don't think it's the end of him P4P but it might be an end to "BJ has the best boxing evar" when he just has a really good jab. I knew Frankie had great boxing but I figured he didn't have THAT good of boxing. Fantastic showing by Frank.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Bloody hell, I hated BJ for all his crap with GSP but then I came to acknowledge that he is a good fighter especially in the LW division then I go almost all in on him and lose all my freaking credits... Glad that I don't bet on this crap in real life.

Just another reason for me to go back to hating Penn.


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> Don't think it's the end of him P4P but it might be an end to "BJ has the best boxing evar" when he just has a really good jab. I knew Frankie had great boxing but I figured he didn't have THAT good of boxing. Fantastic showing by Frank.


I think that he will drop down in people's p4p lists, he has to - personally I'm not into those lists, just saying.

But yeah man, Frankie's boxing was top notch - great feints, head movement and footwork. He showed a great ability to mix it up against BJ, which got him his takedowns - they weren't necessarily perfect shots, it was just the perfect MMA combination of striking and grappling.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Indestructibl3 said:


> I think that he will drop down in people's p4p lists, he has to - personally I'm not into those lists, just saying.
> 
> But yeah man, Frankie's boxing was top notch - great feints, head movement and footwork. He showed a great ability to mix it up against BJ, which got him his takedowns - they weren't necessarily perfect shots, it was just the perfect MMA combination of striking and grappling.


I felt the same way. The way Frankie fought was very GSP esque with more boxing and striking. Nothing really devastating landed but he did a damn good job of keeping BJ guessing which is something none of BJ's previous opponents have done. I'm happy this is a fantastic upset in a good way, not like Serra/GSP. Frankie CLEARLY earned his belt, not flukes or anything can be called.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Obligatory BJ Penn camp injury excuse.......


*INCOMING!!!!*


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

to be honest.....Ive never been impressed with Bj's "boxing" :thumbsdown:

to be honest, his style reminds me of Vitor Belfort. Just lay and pray...then wait till the distance is closed and throw a bunch of jabs and hooks until till one connects.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

I'm pretty gutted. Edgar looked great though. Not entirely sure what was up with Penn. Edgar vs Maynard 2 for the title should be great.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

While I was definitely rooting for BJ, this is good for the division. Now theres a ton of different title fights available and we'll get to see BJ work his way back up. I'm personally excited for whats to come.


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## 219rolling (Apr 10, 2010)

Good for Edgar. Now we get to see a lot more ptentially great match ups. This shakes up the division quite a bit, and I like it a bunch.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

I am so proud of Edgar! finally a midget holds the belt again 

but seriously, that was impressive. he looked better against bj than so many fighters who were considered to be tougher matchups.


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## usernamewoman (Sep 24, 2007)

im from toms river nj, and i am ecstatic that our hometown boy brings back the belt, go frankie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

http://www.bjpenn.com/video/thanks-for-all-the-support


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Someone please aware me about this leg injury of BJ's.


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

a Jorge Gurgel mindset, heh


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Just rewatched this fight, and I still find it hard to believe that this is the BJ Penn we saw against Sanchez and KenFlo. Something was not right about him tonight, I saw it in his eyes when he walked out to the octagon. This was not the hungry, fierce, agressive Prodigy, it was a BJ who seemed to be nervous and having second thoughts. This could very well be because of the taped up knee. He did not engage in any kind of clinch work with Edgar, and did not try to take him down to the ground, where he has a huge advantage. Instead he stood flatfooted in the middle of the octagon and traded punches. Normally that would work for him aswell, but Frankie brought his A game, and even though BJ connected with the better shots, Frankie stayed calm and collected and outpointed BJ, even scoring a takedown. This is another thing that I find fishy. Guys like GSP and Matt Hughes hadd to struggle to get BJ to the ground, and a 154-pounder who doesn't cut weight does it? The way BJ defends takedowns is by hobbling around on his leg, keeping balance, and maybe hes knee was in a condition where he was unable to do it.

I'm a huge BJ Penn nuthugger, but I am trying my best not to come across to biased. Edgar fought a good fight, and in my book, he won the fight 48-47. But it still baffles me that this was the guy that dethroned BJ Penn. On paper I say Baby Jay has this fight won 9 times out of 10, and I'm not sold on that it was a fully fit Penn that came in to the octagon tonight.

Anyway, I'll swallow my pride, (and all my credits), and congratulate the new UFC Lightweight Champion of the world, Frankie Edgar.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

F#ckin' BJ.:sign02:


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## Wombatsu (Jul 10, 2006)

it was a close fight but BJ should have tried to take him down off the fence, im just confused why he didnt. His corner said at the start of the 4th to take him down which sounded about right at that time........very confused on this one. Either way Frankie fought a smart fight by being very elusive and hard to hit.


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## bazmagoo (Dec 31, 2006)

luckbox said:


> Just rewatched this fight, and I still find it hard to believe that this is the BJ Penn we saw against Sanchez and KenFlo. Something was not right about him tonight, I saw it in his eyes when he walked out to the octagon. This was not the hungry, fierce, agressive Prodigy, it was a BJ who seemed to be nervous and having second thoughts. This could very well be because of the taped up knee. He did not engage in any kind of clinch work with Edgar, and did not try to take him down to the ground, where he has a huge advantage. Instead he stood flatfooted in the middle of the octagon and traded punches. Normally that would work for him aswell, but Frankie brought his A game, and even though BJ connected with the better shots, Frankie stayed calm and collected and outpointed BJ, even scoring a takedown. This is another thing that I find fishy. Guys like GSP and Matt Hughes hadd to struggle to get BJ to the ground, and a 154-pounder who doesn't cut weight does it? The way BJ defends takedowns is by hobbling around on his leg, keeping balance, and maybe hes knee was in a condition where he was unable to do it.
> 
> I'm a huge BJ Penn nuthugger, but I am trying my best not to come across to biased. Edgar fought a good fight, and in my book, he won the fight 48-47. But it still baffles me that this was the guy that dethroned BJ Penn. On paper I say Baby Jay has this fight won 9 times out of 10, and I'm not sold on that it was a fully fit Penn that came in to the octagon tonight.
> 
> Anyway, I'll swallow my pride, (and all my credits), and congratulate the new UFC Lightweight Champion of the world, Frankie Edgar.


I agree, something was off with BJ tonight. Either he didn't train as hard as his previous 3 fights or he wasn't able to due to injury. Not a BJ fan at all, and not trying to make excuses for him.

In this day and age, if you aren't as close to 100% as possible you probably should step aside. Sport is becoming way too competitive. BJ only has one person to blame, and Frankie did what he needed to do to win perfectly. Congrats to the new champion!


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Drogo said:


> It was a close fight and Edgar was very active but he hardly landed anything. Being active doesn't mean that much when BJ beats you to the punch every time.
> 
> I'll reserve judgement until I watch it again but I was floored by that decision and I hate Penn. I just didn't think Edgar really hit Penn much, he bounced around a lot and threw a ton of faints but punches actually landed seemed really low. I want to see compustrike numbers.


This is exactly how i seen the fight, and i watched it twice.

Either, way, im shocked at BJ's performance. Literally speechless.


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## bazmagoo (Dec 31, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> This is exactly how i seen the fight, and i watched it twice.
> 
> Either, way, im shocked at BJ's performance. Literally speechless.


If Frankie didn't hit BJ, how come BJ's face was so marked up? If fact, I'd say I've never seen BJ's face that marked up except for the 2nd St Pierre fight.


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## Wombatsu (Jul 10, 2006)

Was anyone else else kinda thinking after the Machida/Shogun fight that BJ would win this ? I thought straight after the fight that maybe frankie won one round more, maybe. Then i thought well no he didnt really do that much other than one TD, you gotta beat the champ to win the belt...then i thought Shogun beat Machida way more than how this fight went down.........then a 50- 45 WTF ????? Talk about confused.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

bazmagoo said:


> If Frankie didn't hit BJ, how come BJ's face was so marked up? If fact, I'd say I've never seen BJ's face that marked up except for the 2nd St Pierre fight.


Oh no, im not saying frankie didnt hit BJ, he did. But from what i saw, BJ hit frankie more and with more power and generally out box him for the majority. Frankies constant movements in and out and throwing feints rogan seemed to love to comment on.

Like i said either way, that wasn't Penn in there.

The take downs frankie got are very suspicious, Hughes and even gsp struggled for a while to take him down, then frankie edgar a light LW, gets a couple of easy TD's.

I just dont know what to make of all this.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

what do you mean by "suspicious"?


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## SRCSBaseball (Aug 1, 2009)

To me the sad part is that Frank Edgar fought his heart out today and beat a legend, but this accomplishment is/will be overshadowed by Silva dicking around in the octagan. 

Congrats Frankie you deserved it! Even if BJ wasn't 100%.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

HexRei said:


> what do you mean by "suspicious"?


Man, dont think i mean "fixed" or any thing like that lol.

I just mean Penns conditioning and performance. Suspicious about his training and the taped knee. It makes no sense as to why he wouldnt even attempt a take down if he felt he was losing the striking battle and how easily edgar managed to take him down on them two ocassions. Just doesnt add up to me.


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Oh no, im not saying frankie didnt hit BJ, he did. But from what i saw, BJ hit frankie more and with more power and generally out box him for the majority. Frankies constant movements in and out and throwing feints rogan seemed to love to comment on.
> 
> Like i said either way, that wasn't Penn in there.
> 
> ...


We are on the same page then.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

where can I watch the fight again? you guys saying you watched it another 2 times must be watching it on the internet somewhere. I want to watch that fight again.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> where can I watch the fight again? you guys saying you watched it another 2 times must be watching it on the internet somewhere. I want to watch that fight again.


No man, i recorded it via sky plus (british digital tv) and just re watched it.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> It makes no sense as to why he wouldnt even attempt a take down if he felt he was losing the striking battle and how easily edgar managed to take him down on them two ocassions. Just doesnt add up to me.


It's a little odd, then again with how fast & constantly Frankie was moving around it's kinda hard to time a takedown. BJ doesn't exactly have GSP's lightning fast takedowns.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

aerius said:


> It's a little odd, then again with how fast & constantly Frankie was moving around it's kinda hard to time a takedown. BJ doesn't exactly have GSP's lightning fast takedowns.


True, true. Im still just very shocked to see BJ defeated at lightweight like that. Shocked.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

I had a bet on this PPV: one of the champs will lose his champ, but i thought Silva will lose the belt.
Annyway. PPV is over. Edgar is the new Champ. Congratulations to him. In the Countdown, i think Rogan or Dana said nobody thinks Edgar can win this...*just EDGAR!!!*
I had a post in this thread, and my thoughts were...Edgar can win this two ways: use quick combinations...get under BJ's guard, quick punches and get out. Or use the clinch to try and take BJ to the ground, considering how Edgar's origins are in Wrestling.
I think, i can be happy with the way i thought Edgar should fight. He came in, and didn't do annything spectacular. Just execute a plan...the blueprint to beating BJ. It wasn't dominant or annything like that, but i do think he deserves this title.
BJ just didn't seem to be himself in this fight. He didn't show that asgressiveness that fans were used to. Compared to his fights with Florian and Diego, BJ looked realy bad. 
It's also Edgar's fault, because he didn't allow BJ to do his usual thing, but still...i think we didn't get to see the best BJ in the ring. This is a big setback for him. I think WW is out of the question for him right now.
I am realy curious about how thing will develop in the LW division from now on.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Man, dont think i mean "fixed" or any thing like that lol.
> 
> I just mean Penns conditioning and performance. Suspicious about his training and the taped knee. It makes no sense as to why he wouldnt even attempt a take down if he felt he was losing the striking battle and how easily edgar managed to take him down on them two ocassions. Just doesnt add up to me.


Edgar is a very good Wrestler, it's hard to take a Wrestler down.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

I hate to blow my own Trumpet but check out this shit

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/74169-assuming-they-stayed-their-current-weight-class-2.html

What a fcuking call I knew Frankie with his speed and movement could out strike BJ


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Horrible judging there is no way you can give the first two to Frankie. BJ landed more often and with more power the last three were all close but that guy who gave all five to Frankie needs to never be allowed to judge again.


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## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

Well when will BJ be cleaning out the WW division?


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

machidaisgod said:


> Well when will BJ be cleaning out the WW division?


Very soon! 

BJ is not dead yet man, he will come back even stronger.


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## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

BobbyCooper said:


> Edgar is a very good Wrestler, it's hard to take a Wrestler down.


Still though, he took Florian down and subbed him and Florian is very crafty bjj blackbelt. Its mind boggling that he didn't even try to go for takedown even on 5th round after getting outboxed for 4 rounds.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Diokhan said:


> Still though, he took Florian down and subbed him and Florian is very crafty bjj blackbelt. Its mind boggling that he didn't even try to go for takedown even on 5th round after getting outboxed for 4 rounds.


lol he didn't got outboxed for 4 rounds.. I have to watch the fight again, before I can score it properly. But it was a close fight as far as I can tell now.

And Florian isn't Edgar!


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

osmium said:


> Horrible judging there is no way you can give the first two to Frankie. BJ landed more often and with more power the last three were all close but that guy who gave all five to Frankie needs to never be allowed to judge again.


Completely agree. I had round 4 and 5 firmly for Edgar, round 3 could've gone either way but I was leaning toward Edgar, first two were BJs.


----------



## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

BobbyCooper said:


> lol he didn't got outboxed for 4 rounds.. I have to watch the fight again, before I can score it properly. But it was a close fight as far as I can tell now.
> 
> And Florian isn't Edgar!


Well personally I scored it 50-45, but 2 of the rounds were close enough to go for Penn too. Edgar was landing more shots and overall was more active than Penn, so yes he was winning the boxing.

And no Florian isn't Edgar, but the point was that Florian has way better jitsu game than Edgar (a purple belt) has and Penn had no problems passing his guard and subbing him. Penn obviously wasn't winning the fight standing so I find it weird that he didn't even try to take the fight to the ground. 
The least he could have done is trying to sweep Edgar or go for a sub from bottom when Edgar ended up in his guard. Edgar is indeed great wrestler but far from as effective as GSP (as you could see from his takedowns), I really doubt he could have caused Penn so many problems on the ground that it wasn't worth atleast trying to go there as even with the size and skill advantage GSP too had some problems controlling Penn on the ground.
Dunno, to me it seems so much like Penn vs. Sherk, a fight where a guy ignores the most obvious game plan and ends up losing the fight because of it.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Edgar is a very good Wrestler, it's hard to take a Wrestler down.


fun fact, BJ is a better wrestler, grappler than frankie edgar. Penn is too stubborn to use take downs offensivley and i honestly dont know why he didnt utilise them in this fight. Some thing was up with him.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

I'd bet Sherk feels a little bit better now.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

I am still in shock I didn't even watch the fight I still don't want too.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I'd love to see a re-match in the states. Bj didn't quite look like himself and edgar looked like satan came out of hell to kick some ass. 

I gave the first two rounds to bj easily, 3rd round could have gone either way and 4th and 5th were pretty much edgar.


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## theclash84 (Apr 1, 2010)

did BJ have an injury to his left knee or leg. It looked as thou he wasn't really pushing off it all, even on his jabs during the fight. Pretty sweet seeing Edgar win, got to meet him a few months ago in my hometown.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

Yeah after watching that fight it wasn't as bad as everyone said I still think Bj won and fight metric does too. But that leg thing something must have happened.
http://www.fightmetric.com/fights/Edgar-Penn.html


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I definitely saw it in Edgar's favor. He looked too quick for BJ tonight. I thought he did more damage and fought a better fight.


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## mattreis324 (Mar 24, 2009)

SRCSBaseball said:


> To me the sad part is that Frank Edgar fought his heart out today and beat a legend, but this accomplishment is/will be overshadowed by Silva dicking around in the octagan.
> 
> Congrats Frankie you deserved it! Even if BJ wasn't 100%.


Well put. There isn't a single thread about Penn/Edgar on the first page. It's all about Silva.

As for the actual fight, it was really close but I thought that Edgar won. BJ's corner knew it was close and they knew he was getting worn down, that's why they told him to take it to the ground after the 3rd round.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Even in the post fight stuff, all of the reporters kept asking about Silva/Maia and Dana had to keep talking about the other fighters himself.


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## Guymay (Jul 6, 2009)

after watching the fight 2 more times . i had it 48-47 BJ by winning 90% of the exchange in round 1-3 , and i don't call that slip a takedown . BJ leg did look injured , but like toxic said it wasn't the wrapped leg .BJ was hesitate to engaged it the 4-5 round , and when frankie took him down he put little pressure on bj knee and he crumbled . anyway that 50-45 judge should go back to judge boxing or whatever , that was new degree of bullshit .


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

DragonStriker said:


> Yeah after watching that fight it wasn't as bad as everyone said I still think Bj won and fight metric does too. But that leg thing something must have happened.
> http://www.fightmetric.com/fights/Edgar-Penn.html


I've said it before and I'll say it again, FightMetric is horseshit. There's no way that BJ threw more strikes than Frank, let alone landed more IMO. I'm going to watch it tomorrow and count them because I can't remember a time outside of the first round where BJ was coming forward to punch, he'd wait for Frank every time and try to counter. Albeit Frankie didn't land anywhere NEAR all of those punches but he landed more than BJ.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

IMO edgar won it clearly rounds 2,4,and5 were his no question. BJ's knee didn't seem to have that huge of an impact IMO. The thing that won it was conditioning and great movement by Edgar. Also bj was not listening to his trainers who were telling him to take to take the fight to the ground. BJ knew he lost as well. He was hiding his face between rounds and at the ened of the fight he didn't act like he thought he won.


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## T.Bone (Oct 15, 2008)

In the end Frankie just worked harder than BJ and that's what won it for him. 

I was impressed by Edgars work-rate more than anything, he was like a mchine, it's hard to keep up with that kind of pace.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

After watching the Tyson and Sherk fight this was what I was afraid of. Edgar is super super quick and just hits like a mongoose battling a rattle snake. You can't get em...head movement, moving side to side, bobbing and weaving, mixing his strikes. 

I knew BJ should have went for the takedowns to keep Edgar honest. After the third - fifth Edgar was a lot more confident with his strikes. Never truly hurt BJ, but it was enough to score the win. 

I see Maynard taking Edgar again, but I'd also like to see Kenflo vs Edgar. 

What a strange predicament for BJ now. I say he takes a rest then comebacks and takes his belt back easily then moves up to WW.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Edgarjust fif what he had to do.
He believed in his chances, when almost nobody did.
His boxing was very good and his strategy even better. A lot of movement in the ring and quick combinations, getting under BJ's guard without taking damage, and just score some points on the judges' cards. 
BJ looked bad tonight imo. I didn't see that aggressivness he desplayed in his last 2 fights, but that's "Edgar's fault" also. And his cardio looked suspicious. I had a feeling he's loosing energy in the 4th and especialy in the 5th. 

Annyways, we have a new LW Champion and all i can say is, all of the sudden this division looks very very interesting.


----------



## arkanoydz (Mar 15, 2010)

i still think BJ is the more talented fighter, and during the match he still showed the superior boxing skills imo. I gave him rd 1&2 without a doubt, and 3 (though it was closer), and honestly i didn't think the final 2 rounds were that 'clearly' in Edgar's favour. i understand why Edgar was given the decision, but i think the main reason for BJ's loss lies on a 'mental' factor - he looked different this time around.

Having said this, I was thoroughly impressed with how relaxed and prepared Edgar came, he looked very good this fight even though he did less damage to Penn than Rua did to Machida (I know they were different fights in many ways but after having experienced ufc 104 I thought the scores would have come out much much closer).


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

I think it has a lot to do with "looks" that Edgar got the decision. BJ didn't look like he won the fight after the final bell rung. He didn't even look like he won the rounds that he won (that 50-45 scorecard amazes me by the way). Edgar just didn't stop, and BJ stopped midway through round 3. When Edgar got tagged and lost a round his body language was like "That round wasn't too bad, just shrug it off and win the next one." and BJ's body language was "Why do I have to go through this again?". It was very obvious in rounds 4 and 5. After the fight, one guy looked like a winner and the other guy looked like a loser although it was a really close fight. That doesn't explain that judge's incompetence though...

Personally I scored it 48-47 Edgar, but when I heard the 50-45 scorecard I thought BJ would retain. I was happy when Edgar got the nod, but this just shows how incompetent some judges are out there. This was one of the closest title fights ever in the UFC. How on earth can you possibly score every round for Edgar?


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

:thumbsup:


No_Mercy said:


> After watching the Tyson and Sherk fight this was what I was afraid of. Edgar is super super quick and just hits like a mongoose battling a rattle snake. You can't get em...head movement, moving side to side, bobbing and weaving, mixing his strikes.


and this is what frustrated BJ and cost him the fight.

Frankieis straight up East Coast style boxing and BJ couldnt find anything to counter that, BJ wanted to clinch/brawl and overpower him like he did Kenflo. Frankie is a stick and move fighter.

Good strategy:thumbsup:


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

xeberus said:


> I'd love to see a re-match in the states. *Bj didn't quite look like himself* and edgar looked like satan came out of hell to kick some ass.


I dunno, I think I've seen that BJ before.... losing his title in a 5 round decision to a crisp boxer with a wrestling background.


Yeah, a rematch would be nice. But what would be nicer, is if ridiculously talented fighters stopped getting overconfident when fighting underdogs. Cardio is a b****

As hard as it is going to be for some fans, Edgar was a much better fighter on this night. He could have gone 20 rounds if he were told to. Environmental conditions: predictable, and not an excuse. Besides, BJ is from Hawaii.

(*this doesn't count if we find out BJ is seriously impaired by injury or something*)


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Ok, the amount of people saying edgar won because of crisper boxing is getting ******* ridiculous now. HE WAS OUT BOXED BY BJ PENN. Yes it was close, but BJ clearly out boxed edgar for the majority of the fight. Edgar was bouncing around a lot more and weaving his head erratically, but that does not mean he out boxed BJ Penn! He was getting beaten to the punch by BJ is most exchanges and BJ was always countering frankie with good, clean shots when he moved away. The lack of boxing knowledge on this forum is silly.


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## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> Ok, the amount of people saying edgar won because of crisper boxing is getting ******* ridiculous now. HE WAS OUT BOXED BY BJ PENN. Yes it was close, but BJ clearly out boxed edgar for the majority of the fight. Edgar was bouncing around a lot more and weaving his head erratically, but that does not mean he out boxed BJ Penn! He was getting beaten to the punch by BJ is most exchanges and BJ was always countering frankie with good, clean shots when he moved away. The lack of boxing knowledge on this forum is silly.


Agreed. 

Penn outboxed Edgar thorughout the fight, but Hammerlock is absolutely right: Edgar looked clean and crisp, while Penn looked defeated. 

Reps to both of you.


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## GriffinFanKY (Oct 22, 2007)

The first fight I saw of Edgars was the Fisher fight at 78 and was bored out of my mind and thought he was a boring wrestler but have seen him evolve and really improve his boxing and really become fun to watch (and later saw his Griffin fight) its just kind of wierd I think to see him as champ but for some reason I wanna see him fight Ken Flo a fight against Maynard will be the exact same thing as last time IMO


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Ok, the amount of people saying edgar won because of *crisper boxing* is getting ******* ridiculous now. HE WAS OUT BOXED BY BJ PENN. Yes it was close, but BJ clearly out boxed edgar for the majority of the fight. Edgar was bouncing around a lot more and weaving his head erratically, but that does not mean he out boxed BJ Penn! He was getting beaten to the punch by BJ is most exchanges and BJ was always countering frankie with good, clean shots when he moved away. The lack of boxing knowledge on this forum is silly.


That doesn't make much sense. BJ maybe did out box Edgar, but Edgar WAS the more crisp boxer, because he IS the more crisp boxer.

BJ couldn't put Frankie down with his power, he saw himself falling behind, and he let the title slip away.

Also, this is one of those cases where you will say "clearly" a lot, but it just does not apply. Nothing was too clear about this fight, as it was very close. I've watched it quite a few times now, and Edgar CLEARLY wins, but that is just my opinion.

You also need to remember that the judging system works in a way where not only takes into account the shots thrown, but his takedown and constant aggression put it over the top. This IS mma after all, not boxing.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

I personally scored it 48-47 in favour of BJ. I thought he definitely won the first two. Managed to win the 3rd albeit close, with Edgar taking the final two. The fight was very close in all and could of easily swung either way. 

50-45 is just atrocious judging imo.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Ok, the amount of people saying edgar won because of crisper boxing is getting ******* ridiculous now. *HE WAS OUT BOXED BY BJ PENN.* Yes it was close, but BJ clearly out boxed edgar for the majority of the fight. Edgar was bouncing around a lot more and weaving his head erratically, but that does not mean he out boxed BJ Penn! He was getting beaten to the punch by BJ is most exchanges and BJ was always countering frankie with good, clean shots when he moved away. The lack of boxing knowledge on this forum is silly.


Boxing =/= having a good jab. Frankie out boxed BJ by mixing his strikes in and throwing jabs with hooks and body shots behind them. I'm really tired of hearing the BJ has God like boxing when he's just got a really good jab. He doesn't mix strikes and he doesn't throw combos that often. He just throws a lot of jabs and keeps people from pushing in on him. When BJ mixes that jab with some body shots, then we'll talk.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SJ said:


> That doesn't make much sense. BJ maybe did out box Edgar, but Edgar WAS the more crisp boxer, because he IS the more crisp boxer.
> 
> BJ couldn't put Frankie down with his power, he saw himself falling behind, and he let the title slip away.
> 
> ...


Define crisper boxing. Frankie edgar bouncing around like a mad man erratically jabbing and then continuing the bounce around means he was the crisper boxer? Not how i see it. BJ controlled the octagon, landed the higher percentage of strikes and was beating edgar to the punch the majority of the time and countered edgar when ever he would enegage and back up. Generally speaking, the man who out-boxes the other guy is the more crisp boxer.



TraMaI said:


> Boxing =/= having a good jab. Frankie out boxed BJ by mixing his strikes in and throwing jabs with hooks and body shots behind them. I'm really tired of hearing the BJ has God like boxing when he's just got a really good jab. He doesn't mix strikes and he doesn't throw combos that often. He just throws a lot of jabs and keeps people from pushing in on him. When BJ mixes that jab with some body shots, then we'll talk.


You were obviously watching a different fight and must not of studied penns boxing game in all of his other fights. Penn puts together wicked combinations, has a wicked jab and utilises body shots. He just doesnt erratically move around like frank edgar, penn looks like the more natural boxer. Apparently though, according to mma fans and judges bouncing around crazily and still getting caught in the face by BJ's fist for the majority of the fight earns you the victory and is superior boxing.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

wow, the fightmetric report on penn v edgar is pretty damning...

http://www.fightmetric.com/fights/Edgar-Penn.html


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> Boxing =/= having a good jab. Frankie out boxed BJ by mixing his strikes in and throwing jabs with hooks and body shots behind them. I'm really tired of hearing the BJ has God like boxing when he's just got a really good jab. He doesn't mix strikes and he doesn't throw combos that often. He just throws a lot of jabs and keeps people from pushing in on him. When BJ mixes that jab with some body shots, then we'll talk.


That is just completely false. BJ was landing left hooks at will in the first three rounds, always finishing with combos, and was avoiding most of Frankie's punches with superior head movement. Frankie didn't clearly win any round standing 4 and 5 were leaning towards him but they could both be called 10:10.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

Well either BJ is going to get a rematch or a match with someone else beat them and then fight for the title again I am sure of it.


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## SSD (Aug 8, 2009)

HexRei said:


> wow, the fightmetric report on penn v edgar is pretty damning...
> 
> http://www.fightmetric.com/fights/Edgar-Penn.html


You should check out the compustrike report. Its usually more reliable in my opinion. In this report, Frankie wins slightly but its very close.

http://www.compustrike.com/stats_files/ufc_112/Penn-Edgar.HTM


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

SSD said:


> You should check out the compustrike report. Its usually more reliable in my opinion. In this report, Frankie wins slightly but its very close.
> 
> http://www.compustrike.com/stats_files/ufc_112/Penn-Edgar.HTM


good call. those read more like the fight i remember seeing.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

SSD said:


> You should check out the compustrike report. Its usually more reliable in my opinion. In this report, Frankie wins slightly but its very close.
> 
> http://www.compustrike.com/stats_files/ufc_112/Penn-Edgar.HTM


Thank you. I'm hoping stuff like this will knock off those putting up FM stuff. FM is bullshit and always has been. Having a ~30 strike disparity is pretty large, IMO.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

limba said:


> Edgarjust fif what he had to do.
> He believed in his chances, when almost nobody did.
> His boxing was very good and his strategy even better. A lot of movement in the ring and quick combinations, getting under BJ's guard without taking damage, and just score some points on the judges' cards.
> BJ looked bad tonight imo. I didn't see that aggressivness he desplayed in his last 2 fights, but that's "Edgar's fault" also. And his cardio looked suspicious. I had a feeling he's loosing energy in the 4th and especialy in the 5th.
> ...


I agree, BJ didn't look 100%...it was night and day compared to his last 2 title defense.

I also agree that Edgar showed up, and played to his strenghts and followed his game plan.

Good for Edgar, good for the LW division also...

BJ will regroup, and come back...nothing to worry about...
I feel like there was a lack of motivation, and he thought that it would be enough for him to just "not lose".
But losing his belt will give him something to work for again...so it's good for us too as we get to see a hungry BJ again...


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Ok, the amount of people saying edgar won because of crisper boxing is getting ******* ridiculous now. HE WAS OUT BOXED BY BJ PENN. Yes it was close, but BJ clearly out boxed edgar for the majority of the fight. Edgar was bouncing around a lot more and weaving his head erratically, but that does not mean he out boxed BJ Penn! He was getting beaten to the punch by BJ is most exchanges and BJ was always countering frankie with good, clean shots when he moved away. The lack of boxing knowledge on this forum is silly.


I'm sure the apparent damage on these fighters had a part to play in the judges' decisions:

Penn looked beat up, Edgar didn't have a scratch on his face...


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

BJ deserved to lose his belt. I thought it was going to go as I predicted after the first 2 rounds, where I had BJ winning both, due to landing more and doing more damage; but in the last 3 rounds something just left BJ. I don't know whether it was the knee, or jet-lag or what but he looked a different fighter, and Edgar took advantage. I'm still in disbelief actually, I just didn't see how Frankie would get it done, but I have to give him props for proving me wrong and getting the win. I had the first 2 rounds to BJ, with the last 3 going to Frankie. Wasn't the most exciting of title fights, but at least it was more entertaining than the fight that followed


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## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

It'd b interesting to see if those who think Edgar won are the same who gave Forrest the nod over Rampage. 

Deference to the champion in close bouts appears to be dead. You no longer have to "take it" to earn it.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

Sicilian_Esq said:


> It'd b interesting to see if those who think Edgar won are the same who gave Forrest the nod over Rampage.
> 
> Deference to the champion in close bouts appears to be dead. You no longer have to "take it" to earn it.


I think it should never have been that way.

On a title fight, the champion puts his belt on the line, and the best fighter on that night will leave with it.

That's how I see it anyway...


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Sicilian_Esq said:


> It'd b interesting to see if those who think Edgar won are the same who gave Forrest the nod over Rampage.
> 
> Deference to the champion in close bouts appears to be dead. You no longer have to "take it" to earn it.


Tell that to Mauricio 'Shogun' Rua.

Also, for the record, I did happen to give Forrest the decision over Rampage.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Sicilian_Esq said:


> It'd b interesting to see if those who think Edgar won are the same who gave Forrest the nod over Rampage.
> 
> Deference to the champion in close bouts appears to be dead. You no longer have to "take it" to earn it.


Along with that feeling not existing in MMA this fight shares other parallels with Rampage/Forrest. The guy who landed the most power shots to the head by far wasn't rewarded for that and the judging was all over the place and awful. 

MMA judging is just terrible half of them don't even go by the guidelines and there is no recourse for bad judging so they just get away with it and never straighten up. I felt the fight was a draw leaning towards BJ because the third was so close. So if I were scoring it 1 and 2 to BJ 3 draw 4 and 5 to Frankie but since MMA judges refuse to give draw rounds 3 would go to BJ. I scored Rampage/Griffin 3 rounds to 2 in favor of Page by the way. 

That is just the way it is though and nothing is going to change so all MMA fans are going to be forever frustrated by stupid ass judging.


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## robbiebp (Dec 31, 2006)

I watchedd the fight and at the very start i said to my mate, BJ dont look in nearly as good as shape as he did against diego.

The fight could have been judged either way. BJ countered better and controlled the centre of the ring, where as Frankie moved better, attacked more and looked a lot less beat up at the end of the fight.

I had it 48-47 for Frankie, was hoping to see BJ wreck him but he left it to the judges.


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## cisco2403 (Apr 12, 2010)

I looked at the spoiler threads for the fight before watching them because I couldn't help myself(hate events like this). When I saw that B.J. had lost, I was gutted and couldn't believe it. I ended up not watching the event because I was so disappointed. 

I eventually found it online a few days later and watched the fight. I remember seeing B.J. at the weigh-ins and he didn't look like he was in as good of shape as he was for the previous fights. 

Anyways, I watched the entire fight twice and I scored it a draw. The first 2 rounds were clearly B.J. The third was pretty even and the last 2 I gave to Frankie.


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## dacypher (Jul 9, 2009)

BJ deserved to lose IMHO. He was not the BJ I have seen many times before. I have no insight, nor have I heard any rumors as to why he was not 100%, but he was far from it. 

It seemed to me that BJ won the first 2, and Edgar won the last 3, and that is how it sounded to be reflected in the official judging, so I see it as fair. 

And there should be no "deference to the champion in close bouts". It should be on complete, nonobjective ground. Of course, that is basically impossible, but there she be no leaning toward the champ just because they are the champ. If they were hungry to keep their belt, they should have ended it with no mistake. If you are the best in your weight division, there should be no one to make it close. And BJ has been that kind of champion in the past. He had seemed to be one of the "untouchables", like GSP and Silva. 

And Edgar's conditioning was very impressive. His first 5-rounder (in the UFC at least) and he didn't look like he slowed down a bit. I would say his endurance is probably the one to beat at the moment.


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