# ***OFFICIAL*** B.J. Penn vs Jon Fitch Pre/Post Fight Discussion



## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

*Please direct all threads/conversation regarding this fight into this thread. All other threads will be merged into this one.*​


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

All Jon Fitch does is take people down and win via LnP, but he wont be able to do that against Penn's outstanding TDD and balance. Ill take Penn via UD in this one...


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## AJClark (Sep 19, 2010)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> All Jon Fitch does is take people down and win via LnP, but *he wont be able to do that against Penn*'s outstanding TDD and balance. Ill take Penn via UD in this one...


It's exactly what he will do, IMO

gotta go UD for Fitch. Really no other choice unless Penn can rock him before he gets taken down.


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## Homeboy (Jan 14, 2011)

I like Penn too much to vote for Fitch. I really hope he pulls this one off.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

This is such a strange match up. I both love it and hate it. I love it because of the possibility of Penn winning by dazzling the fans with his BJJ wizardy or flash KO. But deep down inside I know "YAWN" Fitch is lurking. I swear if I see the lay n pray plan in action I'm going to down a beer then go outside and smoke my cigar till the fight is over. 

Fitch is garbage. He's one of those gamers who runs the clock just to waste time because he's ahead on the score card. If it's super close it's understandable, but that's his game plan EVERY SINGLE FAWKING TIME. I hate that kind of garbage tactic. Finish your opponent already. You might say the same about GSP. At least GSP mixes it up and lands some pretty sweet combos and has some submission attempts. 

The whole world will be watching for BJ to do what he does best. Get the back, sink in the hooks, and go for the RNC.


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## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

I think Fitch will take this via UD, for once!


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## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

My heart says Penn via destruction.

My brain says boring as UD for the snuggie (also knows as Jon Fitch).


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

Fitch will overwhelm him early and grind out a (surprising!) UD.


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## Sin (Jan 25, 2011)

I really hope to see this go down as the Penn vs Sanchez fight 
If Penn doesn't get too overwhelmed in the beginning, I think he can build his confident to do something spectacular!


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Hmmm....a real big WW with good wrestling. Fitch will Fitch him and out work him. 

Boy is this card the suck. Can't believe they didn't give it to us free.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

I'm rooting for Penn but don't really want to see either guy against GSP again. Georges is too big for Baby Jay and too skilled for Fitch. Barring a lucky shot both bouts will be a repeat of the previous one. 

Back on topic, Fitch will have BJ exhausted within a couple rounds and I see him finishing Penn early in the third.

If anyone would like to sig bet against Fitch finishing this fight let me know:thumbsup:


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## SonOfZion (Feb 14, 2011)

Fitch is gonna railroad BJ back to LW.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

RustyRenegade said:


> I'm rooting for Penn but don't really want to see either guy against GSP again. Georges is too big for Baby Jay and too skilled for Fitch. Barring a lucky shot both bouts will be a repeat of the previous one.
> 
> Back on topic, Fitch will have BJ exhausted within a couple rounds and I see him finishing Penn early in the third.
> 
> If anyone would like to sig bet against Fitch finishing this fight let me know:thumbsup:


Umm sure...:laugh:

Anyway, BJ by stoppage or decision.

But Im banking on a stoppage..


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

I really don't see BJ subbing Fitch. Has he ever sub'd anyone off his back?

BJ could catch Fitch, but I doubt he puts him away. Fitch is one tough dude. He did pretty well with a versatile striker in Alves. 

I see a decision win either way. I just thik Fitch has a better gas tank, is much bigger...hell he is bigger than GSP, and I see Fitch getting him down. BJ has good TDD, but it is overrated. Sure shrug off Diego Sanchez or Florian. He didn't shrug off GSP and Frankie got him down. 

I don't like this fight much at all. Seems weird. Why put an exciting fighter in there with Fitch? Are they seriously going to push Penn-GSP III if he were to win? This card should of been free.


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

This fight gives me headache.

Im fan of BJ as a fighter and I dont like his attitude.
Im fan of Jon´s attitude and not him as a fighter.

I love how naturally untalented guy with great spirit makes it to the elite of one of the hardest sport, speaking of Jon of course. 

I would rather see Fitch vs GSP than BJ vs GSP. He has better chance to win agains him than BJ. IMHO

I would love to see Fitch finish BJ. That would be statement.


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## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Hmmm....a real big WW with good wrestling. Fitch will Fitch him and out work him.
> 
> Boy is this card the suck. *Can't believe they didn't give it to us free.*


We're getting Kampmann/Sanchez for free though. Guess it balances things out. I'd love to see another KO or suc for Penn, but yeah, going with the majority on this one. A LnP victory for the bigger WW Fitch is definately the most likely outcome. Shame. Come on Baby J, kill him!!!


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> Umm sure...:laugh:
> 
> Anyway, BJ by stoppage or decision.
> 
> But Im banking on a stoppage..


You're on copter. One month sounds good to me.


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## TheReturn (Sep 26, 2010)

No_Mercy said:


> This is such a strange match up. I both love it and hate it. I love it because of the possibility of Penn winning by dazzling the fans with his BJJ wizardy or flash KO. But deep down inside I know "YAWN" Fitch is lurking. I swear if I see the lay n pray plan in action I'm going to down a beer then go outside and smoke my cigar till the fight is over.
> 
> *Fitch is garbage.* He's one of those gamers who runs the clock just to waste time because he's ahead on the score card. If it's super close it's understandable, but that's his game plan EVERY SINGLE FAWKING TIME. I hate that kind of garbage tactic. Finish your opponent already. You might say the same about GSP. At least GSP mixes it up and lands some pretty sweet combos and has some submission attempts.
> 
> The whole world will be watching for BJ to do what he does best. Get the back, sink in the hooks, and go for the RNC.


Dont even try to kid yourself when you say that Fitch is garbage just because you dont like him. It takes skill and heart to get ahead on the scorecard and then stay ahead for 10-15 minutes.

On topic.

1. Fitch's cardio is better he's going to outwork Bj all 3 rounds

2. Penn has trouble ko'ing people who have good chins, when he realises that Fitch has one he's going to try to sit there and jab his way all the way to a ud because thats all he has left

3. Fitch is the 1st 2nd best ud'er in the ufc he has single/double legs and clinch takedowns on top of being bigger and stronger then Penn, he's going to throw Penn's jab plan in the can with no problem.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Fitch isnt the same calibre of fighter as the likes of Penn or other great champions. He just doesnt have that X-factor, he was never destined to be a champion and he never will be one.

This isnt mike pierce, paulo thiago or diego sanchez fitch is fighting now, its BJ Penn, a different animal all together.

I think BJ is even going to go for take downs in this fight. His take down game and wrestling is under rated and under used, I think hes going to surprise a lot of people with it here.

He took frankie down 2/3 times, hes took a prime takanori gomi down with ease (who is a solid wrestler) or was.... he dumped florian on his ass like it was nothing. And he ALMOST took georgey boy down at one point.

Penn wins via being the superior fighter.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Atilak said:


> This fight gives me headache.
> 
> Im fan of BJ as a fighter and I dont like his attitude.
> Im fan of Jon´s attitude and not him as a fighter.
> ...


There is 0% chance that Fitch finishes Penn. Fitch couldn't finish my grandma. While I think logically this is Fitch's fight for some strange reason that convinces me that Penn is gonna lay a beat down. Logic says Fitch, my heart says Penn but either way I would rather watch BJ/GSP 3 than Fitch/GSP 2. That fight is completely unnecessary until Fitch proves he can do something besides take guys down and lead blanket them.


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## TomMMA (Feb 16, 2011)

I'm taking Penn, TKO 2nd round. Really difficult one though, Fitch definitely has a good chance. Been watching some of Penn's recent blogs and he's looking in shape, like he's packed on some more muscle. 

Looking forward to the fight, think it's a really interesting match up - one of the most entertaining fighters to watch in the UFC against one of the least entertaining.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I do think this fight is incredibly interesting because really this is the fight BJ needs to win to have BJ/GSP 3 make any sense what so ever. IF BJ can overcome a great wrestler with a huge size advantage then his chances against GSP have to look substantially better then they did going into the bout.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

I'm taking Fitch here but seriously this fight as a number 1 contenders fight makes no sense at all.

The only way i'd be happy about it is if Shields beats GSP or GSP moves to 185 permanantly after beating Shields cos Penn/GSP III and GSP/Fitch II do nothing for me at all.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

One of the most interesting fights in a long time imo. these guys are like the exact opposites of eachother.
I'll be rooting hard for Penn to Beat the snot out of blanketman but my brain says blanket via ultraboring & claustrophobic UD.
No way in hell is Fitch finishing Penn, Fitch finishes nobody and Penn is damn hard to finish. I can't see Penn subbing blanket either, so I'd say either (T)KO first or second rount for Penn or UD for Fitch.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Tyson Fury said:


> We're getting Kampmann/Sanchez for free though. Guess it balances things out. I'd love to see another KO or suc for Penn, but yeah, going with the majority on this one. A LnP victory for the bigger WW Fitch is definately the most likely outcome. Shame. Come on Baby J, kill him!!!


I don't really think that makes up for anything.

I mean Kampmann and Diego are good fighters, but aren't in the title mix as of now. They give plenty of free cards a year. The Kampmann-Diego card looks like a typical free card.

The Nog-Tito/Rumble-Hardy card later on is a much better free card.

This is a just a really weak PPV. I like Soti and Bisping is solid, but they could have given them better opponents. The main event could be a snoozefest if Fitch has his way. Weakest card of the year no doubt.

Dana won't stop me from finding this one online.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Toxic said:


> I do think this fight is incredibly interesting because really this is the fight BJ needs to win to have BJ/GSP 3 make any sense what so ever. IF BJ can overcome a great wrestler with a huge size advantage then his chances against GSP have to look substantially better then they did going into the bout.


Sure, if he stops a takedown or 2. But if he comes in and wins with his superior boxing then I don't see how it makes his chances look any better against GSP.

It's not like his boxing has gotten incredibly better since the last fight with GSP. So he comes in with the same chance. Having to catch and hurt GSP before he gets taken down.

Either way I don't want to see either fight GSP again. But if Fitch were to win he has earned his way back to a title shot. Hopefully GSP just moves up so we don't have to see this again.


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## karlo sevilla (Feb 4, 2011)

What Jon Fitch must really do to beat BJ Penn:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/587928-what-jon-fitch-must-do-to-beat-bj-penn-in-ufc-127-down-under


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## Wombatsu (Jul 10, 2006)

im really excited to be at this fight in sydney, it will be a packed house and it will be rocking like no other - ala ufc 110.Despite it not having the biggest names and losing condit wasnt great it will be huge for us aussies.

Im one of Bj's biggest fans but im finding only 2 ways to see this going down. 1. being the obviously bigger fitch wears him down for the decision or 3rd rnd TKO. 2. BJ needs to come out like his last fight, amped and hungry, if he does he could actually finish Fitch with a TKO or sub, god knows he hits hard enough for a smaller guy.

After back and forward if it doesnt go to a Fitch boring lnp decision - ill be shocked, i would like to be shocked !


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## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

Love BJ and want him to win, but this is one of the worst possible match-ups for him at WW. A big strong WW that likes to get down and wrestle as soon as possible.

Despite his abilities, BJ is always going to struggle with the above at WW, and I see Fitch by UD. Hope I'm wrong, even though I quite like Fitch.


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

Would love to see BJ win but this fight is so predictable, Fitch by UD 9 times out of 10.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Going to be a good fight.

Fitch will be overwhelmed striking, so he will auto go for the TD. This fight purely depends on if Fitch can get the TD early or not. If he can't get it early, he's going to get beat up standing until he can get it. 

If Penn comes into the fight with very solid condition, he'll be able to stuff the TD for a good while. Penn has some of the best TDD in the world and it took GSP a round and a half to wear Penn out and get him down, and Penn wasn't in good shape at all. Penn comes in good condition = Penn can stuff the takedown long enough to win the first two rounds, then there's no way Fitch can finish him in the third.

Hell, Penn can rock him and put him away, he does have ridiculous power when he connects right for being such a small guy.

Anywho, point is, if Penn can stuff the TD he wins, if he can't he loses. That's what this fight will depend on.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I think Penn will be prepared to be on his back and unlike GSP did, Fitch doesn't tend to do damage from the top which means Penn can go to work without worrying about being to damaged.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I don't think Penn can do enough off his back to threaten Fitch.

I don't think in a million years Fitch can hurt or finish Penn, but I can't remember the last time Penn subbed someone from the bottom. In fact, I think the last time he even attempted it was against Pulver 4 years ago.

Fitch has really, really good sub defense, and the only thing I can see Penn doing from his back is what he normally does, which is sweep and try to stand back up, but if he can't, it'll be a decision win for Fitch.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

I hope BJ wins if not hopefully it will be a great fight.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

BJ can take fitch down.

Fitch doesn't really have great TDD and BJ has seriously underrated TD's everyone always talks about his TDD but his offensive wrestling is just as good as his defensive, he took GSP down in the first fight and yes that was years ago but straight after GSP was stuffing hughes with ease and that was when matts wrestling was still some of the best.

Obviously it's very doubtful that he will be able to control fitch on the ground but if he utilizes it then he can throw fitch off a bit.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

I'm taking the Hilo Boy.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

John Fitc............zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Oh sorry, John fitch via UD


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

I can't decide who to bet on. I need advise but I'm not sure anyone can help with this one! This is such a good match up


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

SJ said:


> I can't decide who to bet on. I need advise but I'm not sure anyone can help with this one! This is such a good match up


I think thats an easy answer SJ^^ 

only take a look at the odds and it's an obvious pick  for Fantasy Leagues however, I would still go with Jon because he would probably win more times out of ten.


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## Golden Beard (Jan 26, 2011)

Even if they were the same size I think Fitch would be able to control BJ on the ground the whole fight, but Fitch is a huge ww and BJ is a small ww. I see this going, and looking like Lesnar-Mir II. Only with a Fitch decision.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

I have Fitch winning.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

You know you've got yourself a great ******* fight when the poll is even after most of the people have voted.


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## TomMMA (Feb 16, 2011)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> You know you've got yourself a great ******* fight when the poll is even after most of the people have voted.


Agreed 

Getting pumped for this fight now!


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## The_Nightmare (Jul 12, 2009)

I was gonna take a risk on BJ but this poll has just convinced me not to bet on that one.


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## Shoegazer (Jun 23, 2007)

I have to think Fitch has no hope of a submission, KO, or TKO. But I also have to think Fitch is too tough to get stopped, and that he's too big and too consistently good to get outpointed for more than the first round. 

Pulling for BJ. Betting on BJ. Expecting a Fitch UD.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Ahhhh BJ limping at the weigh in!


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Ahhhh BJ limping at the weigh in!


WHAT??!!??

Could have something to do with his acupunture?

http://www.bjpenn.com/video/cimone-from-jujube-clinic

Was it *clearly* visible he was limping? Or?


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## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

34 votes for BJ..........

34 votes for Fitch........


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

I originally voted for Fitch in this fight just because that's what my gut was telling me....but I really REALLY want to see BJ put Fitch away man! 

Fitch is tough as nails and has lots of heart and is so hungry to win and that's cool...but I just really want to see BJ derail him.


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## hangloose (Feb 26, 2011)

only way I see BJ winning (even though i want him too) is if he keeps it standing and hurts fitch early in the fight
Or if he can pull off a great submission off his back..other than that Fitch is gonna grind out a decision with his excellent conditioning.


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## RudeBoySes (Aug 9, 2010)

i used to be much more excited when BJ was fighting, but after seeing how he could not solve the Edgar riddle, it has deflated some.

but if he could pull this off tonight, im sure i will be right back on the bandwagon.

BJ needs to win to win me over completely.


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

His right leg looks noticeably favored in the weigh ins... and the baggy jeans -- hiding a wrapped leg, perhaps? I f*cking hope not!

All made even weirder by the fact that a couple days ago in Dana's video blog, Penn looked fine walking down the street.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE9hTaPC4lw


Probably nothing to make a deal out of... cant imagine him doing anything intense enough in the past few days to blow his leg out...


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

I had a good friend tear two knee ligaments slipping on a curb and I've rolled my bad ankle just walking incorrectly. Stranger things have happened


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I think you guys are making to much about nothing, it just looks awkward cause BJ steps on the guy foot.

I am very intrigued by this bout because BJ looks legit intense like when he fought Florian and Diego, not that false bravado big talk like when he fought GSP and Edgar were it seems he is trying to convince himself as much as anyone else.


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

Agreed Toxic...

I was just looking for any betting edge I could find ;p


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Looking at that GIF, it does look like his right leg is not correct. He's not bending it all when he walks and is keeping it straight. 

I really hope the GIF just looks off and it's nothing.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Am I the only one who thinks Fitch is going to outstrike Penn? I don't think he'll rock Penn or anything like that but I do think he will be the better striker. His striking looked amazing against Alves, and Alves is much better standing than Penn.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Sitch definitely looks smaller than usual.
At least that's what i think!
I don't thinj he is bigger than 180-182.

If he doesn't get BJ down he could have problems!


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## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

I have some credits on the line with Fitch. But I wouldn't mind losing them. Not a big fan of his, just making the "smart" choice. 

Fitch by decision. He is going to be outweighing Penn by at least 20 pounds I bet.


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## Redline7 (Mar 28, 2010)

BJ's stare is so damn intimidating.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Wtf?! BJ looking for TD?!

And...Where is Fitch's superior stregth?!


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## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

BJ with the....takedown??? Outstanding game plan. Who expected that? Get the choke BJ!!!


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## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

Hell hath frozen over. BJ Penn takes down Jon Fitch and takes the back. Who woulda thunk it?


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Not the strategy I expected from BJ but as long as he has the cardio to go 15 minutes it isn't a bad strategy at all.

I thought Fitch was done when BJ sunk the choke in.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

I predict bj will come out trying to strike in the second.
But i hope he doesn't gas first!


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

That was sweet how Fitch turned out of that, and then BJ got back to his feet when he was on the bottom.


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## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

Even though Jon had BJ against the fence for longer, I think with the takedown and back position BJ wins that round.


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## tidgypud (Feb 27, 2011)

Penn is such a scrapper, he's like a rubber bullet


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## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

Good fight so far.


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## tidgypud (Feb 27, 2011)

Penn always causes damage


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## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

Vintage Fitch "grinding" at the end. Might be 1-1 but I'm not sure. BJ had another good takedown.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

There you go, Fitch making it an nice ugly grind.


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## tidgypud (Feb 27, 2011)

Sheeet, don't wanna see him be John's b*tch


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

1 round Fitch, 1 round Penn. All up to this last round. Hopefully we'll finally see a little bit of stand up.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Ironic that the only time Fitch did GnP was when BJ took him down


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## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

Fitch takes the second round with control. BJ with the take down was pretty sweet to see though as well as the back control.

Love how Fitch's corner is telling him that he's gonna finish BJ but we all know what his strategy is.


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## Gonzo (May 19, 2009)

GO Penn!!


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## tidgypud (Feb 27, 2011)

BJ's gassed, Fitch is a big skilled lad


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)




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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

damnit.



he got fitch'd. gave me time for snacks though.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Jon Fitch Gnp is ******* garbage for a dude who is a top 3 in his division.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

10-8 round for Fitch. Penn did literally nothing.


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## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

I hate fitch's style so much.


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## Gonzo (May 19, 2009)

Sounds like Fitch is going to win this...???


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

You know what, he's made it his own. **** the haters, I like it.


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## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

29-28 Bj.


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## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

SURPRISE!!! Fitch by decision....o well, at least I won some credits. 

The judges did screw it up earlier in the night so might happen again...


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

29-28 bj...come on feeling lucky.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

I can't stand Fitches style either, so sad about this fight.


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## Steroid Steve (Oct 1, 2010)

God seeing Fitch fight like that makes me sick. I'm not even a GSP fan, and I hope he gets to fight GSP, so I can see GSP wipe the floor with this guy.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

29-28 Fitch!

Props for him for imposing his fight!

Anybody expected something else?!
I am curious to why BJ didn't try more striking!
Was he that scared of Fitch's takedowns?!


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Yes best decision.


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## Steroid Steve (Oct 1, 2010)

lmfao


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

WTF?

It's impossible for Fitch to put on an entertaining fight.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

WHAT!?............WHAT!>?

Fitch had that fight easy. What the shit is this?


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Bj Penn vs gsp after the super fight, **** fitch.


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## Gonzo (May 19, 2009)

Whats next for Penn? Who the heck is he going to fight now?


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## tidgypud (Feb 27, 2011)

Hmmm. Not sure about that. Close fight but tbf think Fitch won. Might have to rewatch rd 1 & 2.


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## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

Whoa, majority draw. That second round was too close for me so I guess I'm not that surprised. That last round could have been a 10-8 round though...


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Fitch is.............

OVERRATED.

:thumb02:


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## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

Wait, what? Majority Draw? God this night has been so bizzare.


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## Steroid Steve (Oct 1, 2010)

AlphaDawg said:


> WHAT!?............WHAT!>?
> 
> Fitch had that fight easy. What the shit is this?


Fitch had the last round easy, but it's arguable that Penn won the first two rounds.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Any already vague fight in significance becomes even more ambiguous in its completion.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Wow look at the poll results.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

best post fight interview I can remember.

War BJ


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

I saw fitch winning 2 rounds. Penn got his back in the second round but fitch rolled over and was on top for the last 2 minutes of the round, how can you give that round to penn?


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Good observation, marcthegame. Our poll was a draw and the fight was a draw. Interesting coincidence there. :thumb02:


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

I think Fitch should have won that, but I will give Penn credit where it is due.

He really improved in a couple areas he has traditionally been weak in. His conditioning was good, and more importantly, he had an excellent gameplan. Penn has given some fights away in the past because he had a poor gameplan or was unable to adjust to his opponent, but he had a great one tonight. He clearly surprised Fitch, and really gave himself a chance to win a fight I thought he had no chance in, so props to him. Lucky for him there were no more rounds though, he look beaten at the end, he gets crushed in a five round fight.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

IMO its a draw or penn won. That goes to show u y nobody in mma likes jon fitch's style. Dana white if he could would throw his ass out of the ufc.


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## SonOfZion (Feb 14, 2011)

Fitch got robbed.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Fitch won the fight, he whooped BJ's ass in the third round. Bad decision.

Honestly, that last round was painful for me to watch.......

Win, lose or draw Penn, you'll still always be my favourite fighter ever.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Bj won that fight


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Hilarious post fight. As much as I've crapped on Baby Jay, it's impossible not to be a fan now.


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## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

marcthegame said:


> Wow look at the poll results.


hahaha I was just about to say the same thing.


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

like i said in another thread, dont even care if penn lost this fight or if it was a draw im just happy he remembered he is a ground fighter


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Its looks like bj penn is leanning towards retiring soon. The post fight interview was sad. Funny how fitch tried to play the sympathy card also but **** him. I hate GSP a lot but when gsp fights jon fitch I love gsp more than french people.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

He's the least talented no. 1 contender in the world.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

BJ did a great job I think he fought well tonight.


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## SonOfZion (Feb 14, 2011)

M_D said:


> like i said in another thread, dont even care if penn lost this fight or if it was a draw im just happy he remembered he is a ground fighter


 aslong as he remembers Fitch is a better ground fighter, its all good.


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## anderton46 (Apr 23, 2010)

There was some real weird judging tonight. Nick Ring, Lytle not getting 1 round off of the judges. Two judges giving the last a 10-8 round and penn the 2nd round. 

Personally I thought it was 29-28 fitch. The 2nd Penn really all he did was get a takedown have back for about 20 seconds then get reversed.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> He's the least talented no. 1 contender in the world.


who is? As of right now Bj penn is the number one contender because i don't like fitch.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Bj took round 1 10-9, Fitch took round 2 10-9, Fitch took round 3 10-8. If anyone says that round 3 wasnt a 10-8 round then you are out your damn mind. 

Fitch won and a REmatch he will win on the cards.


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

SonOfZion said:


> aslong as he remembers Fitch is a better ground fighter, its all good.


.......... im gunna go to bed before i say/do something i regret.

night all


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Fitch



marcthegame said:


> who is? As of right now Bj penn is the number one contender because i don't like fitch.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Finnsidious said:


> He really improved in a couple areas he has traditionally been weak in. His conditioning was good, and more importantly, he had an excellent gameplan. Penn has given some fights away in the past because he had a poor gameplan or was unable to adjust to his opponent, but he had a great one tonight.


Yup, that's for sure. I was expecting Penn to use his speed & boxing as usual but instead he went for the clinch and manage to get Fitch down a couple times. What surprised me was how much trouble Fitch had trying to get himself off the fence to reverse or break the clinch and how well BJ was able to maintain his position there.

I'm not too sure about BJ conditioning though, when Fitch got him down in the 3rd round he wasn't able to explode and pop back to his feet the way he did in the first 2 rounds. A couple minutes into the 3rd round and he was looking pretty tired, he was just holding on and trying to defend himself instead of working to get Fitch off him. In the 2nd half of the round it was starting to look a lot like the one-sided beating that GSP dished out on him a couple years ago.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> Fitch


the way i see it penn is number one, loser of gsp vs sheilds gets to fight sheilds for the title shot after penn gets his. Bj penn should have won this fight from taking 200 punches and not getting hurt.


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## SonOfZion (Feb 14, 2011)

Props to BJ for admitting what his delusional fanboys seem to be refusing.


He lost. He lost like a man. Respect for the fight he put up. If he had actual work ethic like Fitch or GSP he could be one of the best ever but he doesnt and never will. Natural talent can take you so far but you also gotta work your ass off and seek out to train with the best.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

marcthegame said:


> the way i see it penn is number one, loser of gsp vs sheilds gets to fight sheilds for the title shot after penn gets his. Bj penn should have won this fight from taking 200 punches and not getting hurt.


BJ was bleeding and he had some swelling on his face, sure he didn't get knocked out but he didn't walk away unscratched.


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

aerius said:


> I'm not too sure about BJ conditioning though, when Fitch got him down in the 3rd round he wasn't able to explode and pop back to his feet the way he did in the first 2 rounds. A couple minutes into the 3rd round and he was looking pretty tired, he was just holding on and trying to defend himself instead of working to get Fitch off him. In the 2nd half of the round it was starting to look a lot like the one-sided beating that GSP dished out on him a couple years ago.


 Yeah, but Fitch had much better position in the third than he did in the first two rounds, and he used his size better. Fitch obviously had better cardio, but relative to some past performances, BJ was much better than before. 

Bj definitely looked beaten after the fight, and said as much. Too bad in a way, he impressed me.

Anyone else think he made a big mistake too by trying that back mount? Fitch is really good on the ground, and bigger and stronger, as soon as Penn did it I thought, wow that is a mistake, he is going to turn over and be on top. I thought BJ might very well have given the fight away by allowing that to happen twice.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Penn didn't admit he lost? He said he didn't know what he would have done if he did lose, and that since it was a draw, he'd give Fitch a rematch..

I had Penn winning round 1 and round 2, and Fitch getting a 10-8 in round 3.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

aerius said:


> BJ was bleeding and he had some swelling on his face, sure he didn't get knocked out but he didn't walk away unscratched.


that was fitch blood on his face and the swelling was not swelling it was baby fat.


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## EliteUndisputed (Nov 26, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> who is? As of right now Bj penn is the number one contender because i don't like fitch.


I don't like Frankie Edgar, guess that means using your logic he isn't the Lightweight Champion.

One thing I don't get, is why people think if Shields loses he's going to get another title shot right off the bat. This draw really screws everything up if GSP moves up.


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## iamhead82 (Dec 31, 2006)

*10-9, 10-9, 8-10=draw*

I don't know what everyone is crying about

10-9 Penn in the first (obvious)

10-9 Penn in second (closer but all damage was done by PJ penn, he had submission attempts, bloody Fitch, got effective takedowns and ground control)

8-10 Fitch- Fitch dominated 3rd round

DRAW


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## WestCoastPoutin (Feb 27, 2007)

M.C said:


> Penn didn't admit he lost? He said he didn't know what he would have done if he did lose, and that since it was a draw, he'd give Fitch a rematch..
> 
> I had Penn winning round 1 and round 2, and Fitch getting a 10-8 in round 3.


I think Joe Rogan asked something to the effect of: "do you think you did enough in the first 2 rounds to deserve the draw?"

BJ said : "no"

im durnk and i dont remember exactly but thats what i think happend.


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## SonOfZion (Feb 14, 2011)

M.C said:


> Penn didn't admit he lost? He said he didn't know what he would have done if he did lose, and that since it was a draw, he'd give Fitch a rematch..
> 
> I had Penn winning round 1 and round 2, and Fitch getting a 10-8 in round 3.


 lol listen to the post fight, he was asked point blank, did you think you won or earned a draw and gave a one word answer.


No.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I can see a draw, or a decision win for Fitch. The second round was really close, but I'd have to give the edge to Fitch. The third was a 10-8 for Fitch in my book. Really unsatisfying final two fights tonight, hopefully we'll see Fitch vs. BJ II as a co-main event in the fall or late summer.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

BJ won 1&2 while fitch won 3 but it wasn't a 10-8

cain vs rothwell is a 10-8


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## Jeter Sucks (Jul 9, 2009)

I don't blame the judges. Clearly they just fell asleep after round 2 and had it 1 round each.

I had it for Fitch, but if all your fights go to the judges then it's really not a shock that once in a while the decision will go against you.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Oh, then I must have missed it.

It's a good thing the judges saw Fitch did nothing the first two rounds where as Penn took him down both rounds, had his back both rounds, and almost choked him out both rounds, and edged out both rounds.

I'm sure Penn will watch the fight later and see this.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Frankie Maynard rd. 1 was a 10-8, not Fitch BJ rd. 3.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

EliteUndisputed said:


> I don't like Frankie Edgar, guess that means using your logic he isn't the Lightweight Champion.
> 
> One thing I don't get, is why people think if Shields loses he's going to get another title shot right off the bat. This draw really screws everything up if GSP moves up.


I love edgar he is the champ even though he had a draw. A champ does not lose their belt in a draw so it does not matter. With fitch though its all about popularity and who has done more. Imo bj defeated the second greatest ww and did not lose to fitch. Fitch has won agaisnt who at 170 ben saunders and draw vs bj. Technically that fight between fitch and alves did not happen at 170. Fitch did nothing to win this fight...it reminds me of rampage vs machida...page got his ass whooped but won.


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## tidgypud (Feb 27, 2011)

TBF, I think Penn was surprised with the draw, and I love him for his honesty. Fitch is the kind of fighter that forces people to evolve. I just think he was too big for BJ in this fight.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

I had Fitch winning round 2. He had good sub defense and was able to switch to being on top, not to mention he controlled the top while landing blows for the last 2 minutes of round 2.


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## SonOfZion (Feb 14, 2011)

M.C said:


> Oh, then I must have missed it.
> 
> It's a good thing the judges saw Fitch did nothing the first two rounds where as Penn took him down both rounds, had his back both rounds, and almost choked him out both rounds, and edged out both rounds.
> 
> I'm sure Penn will watch the fight later and see this.


 from a biased fans perspective perhaps.

http://blog.fightmetric.com/2011/02/fitch-vs-penn-official-ufc-statistics.html

reality is Fitch landed 3 to 1 vs BJ that round and reversed the back mount quickly. He even landed more standing with his wall and stall, throw punches/knees to thigh/body shots, go for TD, rinse and repeat over and over and over again.


He controlled and won that round easily, only retardo judges and Penn fans could say otherwise.


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## WestCoastPoutin (Feb 27, 2007)

I am pleased an extra thread was started for you to state your opinion.


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## sg160187 (Apr 11, 2010)

I had Fitch marginally ahead but came to the same scoring conclusion you did when they announced a draw.

I was worried about anything to going to the refs after the first call they made :confused02:


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

tidgypud said:


> TBF, I think Penn was surprised with the draw, and I love him for his honesty. Fitch is the kind of fighter that forces people to evolve. I just think he was too big for BJ in this fight.


Too big?? Fitch was scrawny in that fight. Weight did not play a factor. Usually fitch would have been another 15-20pounds heavier. It showed dramatically.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Finnsidious said:


> Anyone else think he made a big mistake too by trying that back mount? Fitch is really good on the ground, and bigger and stronger, as soon as Penn did it I thought, wow that is a mistake, he is going to turn over and be on top. I thought BJ might very well have given the fight away by allowing that to happen twice.


I don't think going for back mount was a mistake, it was going for back mount and then flipping him for the choke that was the mistake. I think Penn should've stayed on top and flattened Fitch out on the ground then stayed there while sinking in the rear naked choke, that way Fitch can't roll over and end up in top position, he'd have to work for a sweep or something to create a scramble first before he could do anything. Stay on top, stay patient, beat him up a bit while working for the choke. BJ had plenty of time to work in both rounds so a more methodical approach would've been the way to go.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Fitch clearly won round 2 if you look back it it. BJ had the back for a brief moment and got reversed. Fitch landed a nice punch in that round two and even did more standing.

Penn got beat up bad in the thrid.

Fitch should have won. BJ admitted it himself.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Except the fact I'm not a biased fan. I watched the fight not 20 minutes ago, Fitch didn't do anything, and if you're talking about strikes, you're talking about against the cage? They threw only 10 strikes total off the cage. Strikes against the cage don't mean crap if all you're doing is laying on someone agains the cage. Penn took Fitch down in both rounds, he got his back both rounds, and he almost subbed him both rounds.

Sorry if you can't see that, but that's a fact, and it's a fact that Fitch had 0 dominant positions in both rounds, he didn't hurt Penn once in both rounds, and all he did was hug Penn agains the cage both rounds.

Fitch failed to do anything in both rounds, that's why it's a draw. That's a fact also.


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

iamhead82 said:


> I don't know what everyone is crying about
> 
> 10-9 Penn in the first (obvious)
> 
> ...


1 judge = Fitch won
2 judges = Fitch and BJ tied

Decision = DRAW by majority

Fitch won...isn't the whole point of having an odd number of judges so that THIS doesn't happen?


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## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

One of the three judges didnt score it a draw if i remember? Who did he score the win for?


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## SonOfZion (Feb 14, 2011)

glad TS can do math but Fitch won that 2nd round.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

M.C said:


> Except the fact I'm not a biased fan. I watched the fight not 20 minutes ago, Fitch didn't do anything, and if you're talking about strikes, you're talking about against the cage? They threw only 10 strikes total off the cage. Strikes against the cage don't mean crap if all you're doing is laying on someone agains the cage. Penn took Fitch down in both rounds, he got his back both rounds, and he almost subbed him both rounds.
> 
> Sorry if you can't see that, but that's a fact, and it's a fact that Fitch had 0 dominant positions in both rounds, he didn't hurt Penn once in both rounds, and all he did was hug Penn agains the cage both rounds.
> 
> Fitch failed to do anything in both rounds, that's why it's a draw. That's a fact also.


What did BJ do to win round 2?? He didnt do anything. He had back position that fitch reversed very quickly. How you give that round to BJ is silly.


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

Scored the fight 28-28 as well.

10-9 Penn
10-9 Penn ( A really close round, could have gone to Fitch )
10-8 Fitch

I'm really happy Penn got a draw, because I thought the judges would score the 2nd round for Fitch, since he reversed into full guard. If Penn bulks up a little more and really work on his cardio, I'm pretty sure he stands a good chance of winning a rematch.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Fitch clearly won round 2 if you look back it it. BJ had the back for a brief moment and got reversed. Fitch landed a nice punch in that round two and even did more standing.
> 
> Penn got beat up bad in the thrid.
> 
> Fitch should have won. BJ admitted it himself.


This. Round 1 was BJ. he spent far more time on Jon's back and got much closer to finishing him. Second round it was 20-30 seconds on his back and otherwise all Fitch. I had this 29-27 Fitch and I think it's pretty much shit they got a draw. BJ even knew he lost that. I hope they for go a rematch and just give Jon his damn shot already.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> What did BJ do to win round 2?? He didnt do anything. He had back position that fitch reversed very quickly. How you give that round to BJ is silly.


What did Fitch do to win that round? He didn't do anything, he held Penn agains the cage, mind you not the whole time, Penn actually had Fitch against the cage part of the time. That's it.

Outside of cage hugging, Penn took him down, got his back, and almost choked him out. Those 3 things count more than all the cage hugging that Jon did, and that's how the judges saw it.


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## SonOfZion (Feb 14, 2011)

M.C said:


> Except the fact I'm not a biased fan. I watched the fight not 20 minutes ago, Fitch didn't do anything, and if you're talking about strikes, you're talking about against the cage? They threw only 10 strikes total off the cage. Strikes against the cage don't mean crap if all you're doing is laying on someone agains the cage. Penn took Fitch down in both rounds, he got his back both rounds, and he almost subbed him both rounds.
> 
> Sorry if you can't see that, but that's a fact, and it's a fact that Fitch had 0 dominant positions in both rounds, he didn't hurt Penn once in both rounds, and all he did was hug Penn agains the cage both rounds.
> 
> Fitch failed to do anything in both rounds, that's why it's a draw. That's a fact also.


 Fitch outstruck Penn 3 to 1 in the 2nd round. Landed the same amount of TDs as Penn in the 2nd round (one) and had 1 sweep/reversal in the 2nd round while Penn had ONE domiant position (Back mount).

Fitch finished the round on top, delivering the most telling damage and controlled the most time against the cage and on top of BJ.


You think ONE TD and ONE domiant position wins a round vs being outstruck 3 to 1, getting controll for 4 out of 5 min and getting taken down once??


well so be it. cant argue with the numbers but say what you want.


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## tidgypud (Feb 27, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> Too big?? Fitch was scrawny in that fight. Weight did not play a factor. Usually fitch would have been another 15-20pounds heavier. It showed dramatically.


He may have been smaller than usual but he was markedly bigger than Penn (also as expected). Penn doesn't gas at light weight. FACT. Fitch has skill and size and it showed in this fight.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

M.C said:


> What did Fitch do to win that round? He didn't do anything, he held Penn agains the cage, mind you not the whole time, Penn actually had Fitch against the cage part of the time. That's it.
> 
> Outside of cage hugging, Penn took him down, got his back, and almost choked him out. Those 3 things count more than all the cage hugging that Jon did, and that's how the judges saw it.


Fitch landed the biggest punch of the fight in that second round, early on. A real nice shot whilst they were standing.


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## iamhead82 (Dec 31, 2006)

ptw said:


> 1 judge = Fitch won
> 2 judges = Fitch and BJ tied
> 
> Decision = DRAW by majority
> ...


Are you dumb? Majority had DRAW... its basically the majority rules. Thats like saying if 49 out of the 50 states all voted equal for president you would pick the 50the state to decide whoever they want.

Fitch is lucky he got 10-8 in 3rd round and BJ was gassed b/c a 10-9 round is a split decision win for BJ.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> Fitch landed the biggest punch of the fight in that second round, early on.


He landed 1 punch that didn't hurt or rock Penn, didn't even effect him. It was no more solid than any other punch, Penn didn't go off balance, nothing.

The rest of the round was Fitch hugging Penn against the cage, Penn reversing it and hugging Fitch agains the cage, then he took Fitch down, got his back, almost chocked him out, there was a minute left in the fight, John reversed it, and the counter clocked down to end the round.

It was an even fight up until Penn took him down, got his back, and almost choked him out. 

That edged it for Penn.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

I saw it (10-9 Penn, 10-10, 10-9 fitch), for a Draw. For a 10-8 round, you have to rock the other fighter imo, you can't just pin them to hold position and land enough punches to not get stood up. That's my take on this.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

fitch took the second.


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## WestCoastPoutin (Feb 27, 2007)

SonOfZion said:


> Fitch outstruck Penn 3 to 1 in the 2nd round. Landed the same amount of TDs as Penn in the 2nd round (one) and had 1 sweep/reversal in the 2nd round while Penn had ONE domiant position (Back mount).
> 
> Fitch finished the round on top, delivering the most telling damage and controlled the most time against the cage and on top of BJ.
> 
> ...


very good post. I am waiting to see if he will reply


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

I love everyone saying Jon just hugged Penn and laid on him, did no one see Bj's face after the fight? He's looked like that after EXACTLY ONE fight and that was four rounds with GSP.

Fitch put beating on him in the third.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

M.C said:


> What did Fitch do to win that round? He didn't do anything, he held Penn agains the cage, mind you not the whole time, Penn actually had Fitch against the cage part of the time. That's it.
> 
> Outside of cage hugging, Penn took him down, got his back, and almost choked him out. Those 3 things count more than all the cage hugging that Jon did, and that's how the judges saw it.


Fitch landed a good punch. Pushed the pace. Held BJ against the cage. Landed more punches, Reversed position and landed good blows from top. Oh and had a takedown if im correct?

Fitch did not almost get choked out. I didnt see BJ sink in a choke at all in that fight. BJ had Fitches back but didnt have a sub. Fitch ended up reversing and did more with it then BJ did the whole time TRYING to get a sub.

BJ got a takedown had back control... and thats it.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

M.C said:


> He landed 1 punch that didn't hurt or rock Penn, didn't even effect him. It was no more solid than any other punch, Penn didn't go off balance, nothing.
> 
> The rest of the round was Fitch hugging Penn against the cage, Penn reversing it and hugging Fitch agains the cage, then he took Fitch down, got his back, almost chocked him out, there was a minute left in the fight, John reversed it, and the counter clocked down to end the round.
> 
> ...


Rubbish. Regardless of if it didnt rock Penn, it was the biggest punch of the fight, it definitely hurt Penn. It was a big shot. Fitch out struck Penn in the clinch exchanges. Penn wasnt any where enar close to sinking in that sub. Fitch reversed him.

Fitch landed more strikes, the better strikes and ended the fight in top position with GNP. He won the round.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> *Fitch clearly won round 2 if you look back it it. BJ had the back for a brief moment and got reversed. Fitch landed a nice punch in that round two and even did more standing.*
> 
> Penn got beat up bad in the thrid.
> 
> Fitch should have won. BJ admitted it himself.


Exactly ehat i'm thinking!
BJ won the first round.
In the second he got Fitch to the ground, the TD came out of the clinch if i remember, than he got Fitch's back, but didn't do much.
Fitch reversed and after that he dominated.
About 3 minutes i believe he did his thing.

And in the last round it was all Fitch!

I scored it:
1: 10-9 BJ
2: 10-9 Fitch
3: 10-9 Fitch 

But, I am also asking you guys: if round 1 was a 10-9 rd, can you honestly compare it to the 3rd round?!

Seriously! 

If BJ won rd 1 10-9, that mean rd 3 must be 10-8 Fitch because BJ did absolutely *nothing*!
That's the reality!

I am not hating BJ, in fact i respect more than ever.
When a fighter pretty much admits he lost...what more do you want!?


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

box said:


> I saw it (10-9 Penn, 10-10, 10-9 fitch), for a Draw. For a 10-8 round, you have to rock the other fighter imo, you can't just pin them to hold position and land enough punches to not get stood up. That's my take on this.


Because that's exactly what he did is land just enough to not get stood up... what planet do you live on!? Not only was he landing shots CONSTANTLY but he was doing so with force. BJ did jack shit that third round except get beat the hell up. Jon landed WELL over 100 shots in that round. BJ landed 2.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

SonOfZion said:


> Fitch outstruck Penn 3 to 1 in the 2nd round. Landed the same amount of TDs as Penn in the 2nd round (one) and had 1 sweep/reversal in the 2nd round while Penn had ONE domiant position (Back mount).
> 
> Fitch finished the round on top, delivering the most telling damage and controlled the most time against the cage and on top of BJ.
> 
> ...


Your "outstruck 3 to 1" means aboslutley nothing because they were agains the cage. That would matter if they were parted and, you know, stirking with each other. Strikes against the cage don't count for much in scoring, it never has.

Penn took him down, got into a dominant positiion, almost choked him out. Fitch reversed the sub, then continued to do nothing but hug Penn on the ground. Did he strike? Yes, was it overwhelming? No.

some time pressing against the cage, A takedown, a back, dominant position, and almost choking a guy out > presssing against the cage, getting taken down, getting your back taken, almost being choked out, then reversing it and riding the round out by doing just enough to keep it on the ground.

Fitch didn't do anything in that round to score a win, they were pretty much even minus the back getting and nearly choking fitch out part.


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## WestCoastPoutin (Feb 27, 2007)

iamhead82 said:


> Are you dumb? Thats like saying if 49 out of the 50 states all voted equal for president you would pick the 50the state to decide whoever they want.
> 
> Fitch is lucky he got 10-8 in 3rd round and BJ was gassed b/c a 10-9 round is a split decision win for BJ.


actually if you had completed high school, you would know its more like 33-34 out of 50 voting for fitch.

also, 49/2 doesnt work when dealing with humans.

school is over rated anyways.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

1. 10-9 BJ
2. 10-9 Fitch
3. 10-9 Fitch

Bj didn't do anything in the last 8 minutes of the fight!
Nothing!
He just defended himself!


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

iamhead82 said:


> Are you dumb? Majority had DRAW... its basically the majority rules. Thats like saying if 49 out of the 50 states all voted equal for president you would pick the 50the state to decide whoever they want.
> 
> Fitch is lucky he got 10-8 in 3rd round and BJ was gassed b/c a 10-9 round is a split decision win for BJ.


I'm dumb because there was a clear winner and he wasn't awarded the victory?

2 judges thought it was a draw, one thought fitch won, therefor FITCH WINS not majority draw. 

Basically, round 2 decided who won the fight(50/50 really on who won this round, but 2 judges gave it to bj unfortunately). You'd rather it be considered a draw, than have the fight go to the guy who actually won it, which was clearly fitch. We all know if it went to a 4th round Fitch would've finished Penn...I like Penn, I like Fitch, but Fitch got robbed of a win basically, and everyone at the bar I attended to watch it was disappointed because they all knew who the hell won the fight. Was bad enough Fitch showed up like 20 lbs lighter than what he usually shows up at fight night, jeez. Swallow your pride and admit penn lost and fitch should've gotten the win and shut up, instead of calling me dumb and using a ridiculous presidential election analogy that doesn't apply at all to a ******* fight.


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## tidgypud (Feb 27, 2011)

Life B Ez said:


> I love everyone saying Jon just hugged Penn and laid on him, did no one see Bj's face after the fight? He's looked like that after EXACTLY ONE fight and that was four rounds with GSP.
> 
> Fitch put beating on him in the third.


This is true. Penn rarely marks. He knew he'd been in a fight. As much as I hat to admit it, in a hypothetical 5 round fight we all know who would have won. Penn did really well but it will take something exceptional (GSP) to sway Fitch from his game plan.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

TraMaI said:


> Because that's exactly what he did is land just enough to not get stood up... what planet do you live on!? Not only was he landing shots CONSTANTLY but he was doing so with force. BJ did jack shit that third round except get beat the hell up. Jon landed WELL over 100 shots in that round. BJ landed 2.


Haters gonna hate Tra, Jon mauled him in the third, BJ looked like he did after the GSP fight and people still say he just laid on him.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

M.C said:


> *Your "outstruck 3 to 1" means aboslutley nothing because they were agains the cage. That would matter if they were parted and, you know, stirking with each other. Strikes against the cage don't count for much in scoring, it never has.*
> 
> Penn took him down, got into a dominant positiion, almost choked him out. Fitch reversed the sub, then continued to do nothing but hug Penn on the ground. Did he strike? Yes, was it overwhelming? No.
> 
> ...


What are you talking about? Then explain how Rampage won 2 rounds against Machida?! Since when have strikes in and out of the clinch not mattered? Fitch landed good shots inside and outside of the clinch.

You've got your blinders on.


----------



## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

I thought Penn won the first two rounds and it was up to the judges on whether the third round was 10-8 or not for Fitch. But...the judges for this card were beyond retarded in almost every fight so go figure. 

Talk about frustrating...:thumbsdown:


----------



## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

No one can hate on Fitch's skills after this. Bj Penn does not take your back twice and not lock in or come close to locking in an RNC.

WAR FITCH.


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## SonOfZion (Feb 14, 2011)

M.C said:


> Your "outstruck 3 to 1" means aboslutley nothing because they were agains the cage. That would matter if they were parted and, you know, stirking with each other. Strikes against the cage don't count for much in scoring, it never has.
> 
> Penn took him down, got into a dominant positiion, almost choked him out. Fitch reversed the sub, then continued to do nothing but hug Penn on the ground. Did he strike? Yes, was it overwhelming? No.
> 
> ...


 landing strikes is the defination of scoring points. I dont know where you come up with strikes against the cage dont count.... Couture has made a career of making them count. Fitch landed the most signifigant strikes and way more strikes.


As for "almost choking him out"....... Fitch had wrist control and was fighting off BJs arms the whole time, he wasnt almost choked out, i dont even know if you can call that a sub attempt. He did what he did the 1st round and easily rolled on top of BJ.


A world champion BJJ Blackbelt couldnt control back mount and you thnk this is scoring big points??


I saw a reversal from backmount is worth just asmuch as the back mount itself and that "Sub attempt" isnt worth much, sub attempts are never worth much or guys like Nate Diaz would win decisions. 


You say he was "close to choking him out" which really makes me think you are very biased about this fight. He wasnt close to anything.


Im not even a Jon Fitch fan, i think only that Tramai dude is the only real Fitch fan alive lol i just know who won this fight because it was clear as day and the numbers support it.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> What are you talking about? Then explain how Rampage won 2 rounds against Machida?! Since when have strikes in and out of the clinch not mattered? Fitch landed good shots inside and outside of the clinch.
> 
> You've got your blinders on.


ignore the guy. If he cant be swayed with FACTS then there is nothing we can do. We know he is wrong and deep down inside he knows it too.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> What are you talking about? Then explain how Rampage won 2 rounds against Machida?! Since when have strikes in and out of the clinch not mattered? Fitch landed good shots inside and outside of the clinch.
> 
> You've got your blinders on.


They matter, if your opponent doesn't do something greater. If they stood against the cage and Fitch did nothing but press on Penn and Penn didn't do anything, the strikes could count more. However, you take two fights fighting, one guy pitter patter shots against the cage doing 0 damage, and the other get reverses the position, takes him down, gets his back and nearly chokes him out.

Who wins the fight?


----------



## iamhead82 (Dec 31, 2006)

ptw said:


> I'm dumb because there was a clear winner and he wasn't awarded the victory?
> 
> 2 judges thought it was a draw, one thought fitch won, therefor FITCH WINS not majority draw.
> 
> Basically, round 2 decided who won the fight(50/50 really on who won this round, but 2 judges gave it to bj unfortunately). You'd rather it be considered a draw, than have the fight go to the guy who actually won it, which was clearly fitch. We all know if it went to a 4th round Fitch would've finished Penn...I like Penn, I like Fitch, but Fitch got robbed of a win basically, and everyone at the bar I attended to watch it was disappointed because they all knew who the hell won the fight. Was bad enough Fitch showed up like 20 lbs lighter than what he usually shows up at fight night, jeez. Swallow your pride and admit penn lost and fitch should've gotten the win and shut up, instead of calling me dumb and using a ridiculous presidential election analogy that doesn't apply at all to a ******* fight.


the whoel reason you have an ODD number of judges (3) is so that if one judge is off base and the other 2 have the same exact score, those 2 that have the same exact score are more likely seeing it the way it was rather then the 1 rogue judge. thats why its odd #.... 

Owned


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

M.C said:


> They matter, if your opponent doesn't do something greater. If they stood against the cage and Fitch did nothing but press on Penn and Penn didn't do anything, the strikes could count more. However, you take two fights fighting, one guy pitter patter shots against the cage doing 0 damage, and the other get reverses the position, takes him down, gets his back and nearly chokes him out.
> 
> Who wins the fight?


You're out of your element.

They weren't pitter patter punches, they were GOOD shots. And then there is the big shot Fitch landed in that round when they were both striking (not clinching or against the cage). That was the best shot throughout the entire fight.

Penn didn't come close to subbing Fitch, round 2 it wasnn't even a sub attempt.

Being a fan and supporting fighters is cool, but being deluded isn't.

Fitch quite clearly won the fight. BJ said so himself.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> ignore the guy. If he cant be swayed with FACTS then there is nothing we can do. We know he is wrong and deep down inside he knows it too.


That would be fine, except my opinion, you know, goes with what the judges stated, with what more than my own opinion states. You do realie I am not the only one that thought Penn won the first two rounds, right?

I'm being vocal about it, but you do realize that I'm not the only one, including the judges?

Mckeever, your "good" shots didn't have anything behind them, unless you're talking about the 50 seconds they were on the ground. Against the cage is what I'm talking about, where is where the majority of the fight took place.

Obviosuly Penn thought he lost, he just got beat down in the third fight. If you are on your back for the entire last round losing, the first thing you think is you lost.

When Penn watches it again, he will feel different.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

M.C said:


> They matter, if your opponent doesn't do something greater. If they stood against the cage and Fitch did nothing but press on Penn and Penn didn't do anything, the strikes could count more. However, you take two fights fighting, one guy pitter patter shots against the cage doing 0 damage, and the other get reverses the position, takes him down, gets his back and nearly chokes him out.
> 
> Who wins the fight?


Except you are ignoring all the other stuff Fitch did in that round. You are also ignoring the fact that BJ did not almost choke out Fitch. Fitch was fighting the choke perfectly. ALL BJ DID WAS A TD AND GET BACK POSITION. That does not win you the fight. Fitch did much much more and reversed BJs trump card to making a case for a decision.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Man I can't believe this fight, BJ puts on one of his best performances ever for the first two rounds whooping Jon Fitchs ass and then Fitch turns around and puts on by far the best performance of his career in the 3rd. I wish BJ wasn't so damn tired going into the third because he was just shrugging Fitch off in the first two rounds. I think the obvious size difference at WW was evident here in that when BJ couldn't put him away just grappling with Fitch for 2 rounds had BJ exhausted.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

The fact is, Bj made this fight exciting, 3rd round was all fitch, and was the one round I wanted to turn off the fight. 5 minutes of top control with no thought of a finish isn't my thing. 

Let's break the 2nd round down

cage fighting = neutral
Penn takedowns
Penn opens John up, bleeds everywhere
Penn goes for subs
John reverses to top position and holds out the round ~2 min.

That's a penn round, or a draw.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Man I can't believe this fight, BJ puts on one of his best performances ever for the first two rounds *whooping Jon Fitchs ass* and then Fitch turns around and puts on by far the best performance of his career in the 3rd. I wish BJ wasn't so damn tired going into the third because he was just shrugging Fitch off in the first two rounds. I think the obvious size difference at WW was evident here in that when BJ couldn't put him away just grappling with Fitch for 2 rounds had BJ exhausted.


LMAO

BJ didnt come close to "whooping" Fitches ass. What Fitch did in the third is "whooping" ass.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Penn had the choke in, his arm was under his chin both times, it was very close to locking it up, maybe you missed that part.

Also, it does win you the fight, when your opponeent doesn't do anything minus reversing a position, and when he did get on top Penn stood up right after.

You're trying to debate laying against a cage + 50 seconds on the ground on top is more important than Penn also pinning Fitch against the cage for a little while, taking him down, getting his back, and nearly sinking in the choke.

The judes saw it the same as me, the same as quite a few other people as well, so no worries.


----------



## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

iamhead82 said:


> the whoel reason you have an ODD number of judges (3) is so that if one judge is off base and the other 2 have the same exact score, those 2 that have the same exact score are more likely seeing it the way it was rather then the 1 rogue judge. thats why its odd #....
> 
> Owned





iamhead82 said:


> *Are you dumb? * Majority had DRAW... its basically the majority rules. *Thats like saying if 49 out of the 50 states all voted equal for president you would pick the 50the state to decide whoever they want.*


Yep, I got owned by the guy who doesn't understand how presidents are elected.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Fitch isnt the same calibre of fighter as the likes of Penn or other great champions. He just doesnt have that X-factor, he was never destined to be a champion and he never will be one.
> 
> This isnt mike pierce, paulo thiago or diego sanchez fitch is fighting now, its BJ Penn, a different animal all together.
> *
> ...





guy incognito said:


> BJ can take fitch down.
> 
> Fitch doesn't really have great TDD and BJ has seriously underrated TD's everyone always talks about his TDD but his offensive wrestling is just as good as his defensive, he took GSP down in the first fight and yes that was years ago but straight after GSP was stuffing hughes with ease and that was when matts wrestling was still some of the best.
> 
> Obviously it's very doubtful that he will be able to control fitch on the ground but if he utilizes it then he can throw fitch off a bit.


Even though BJ lost, just like to point out that we were the only two guys who expected Penn to go for take downs. :thumb02:


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

How can we buy this decision when it was given by the same judges that awarded Nick Ring a UD?!

Seriously!?!

Zero credibility!

Fitch won this fight. Period!


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

How on earth are people making an arguement that Fitch won round 2? His TD at the start was because BJ went for that knee and BJ just shrugged him off, BJ than defended Fitch's TD turned around and took Fitch down with authority and took his back which is considered a very dominant position, Fitch rolled out and ended up in BJ's guard but A that was not nearly as dominant a position as BJ had and B it was not because he took BJ down. rolling over into BJ's guard is not an offensive manuver that should score points its a defensive manuver because your opponent gained a dominant position. Do you guys score points for a fighter who is on his back and regains full guard from half guard? BJ clearly won the first two round every bit as clearly as he lost the third 10-8. That was a picture perfect draw.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

M.C said:


> Penn had the choke in, his arm was under his chin both times, it was very close to locking it up, maybe you missed that part.
> 
> Also, it does win you the fight, when your opponeent doesn't do anything minus reversing a position, and when he did get on top Penn stood up right after.
> 
> ...


Getting 1 arm around his neck in back control is very simple. Fitch ha control the whole time and it was just a matter of time before he reverses. 

The judges were also the dumbest judges i have seen in a long time. So gratz that you share an opinion with those uneducated retards.

Oh and Fitch also landed a good High kick.


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## tidgypud (Feb 27, 2011)

M.C said:


> That would be fine, except my opinion, you know, goes with what the judges stated, with what more than my own opinion states. You do realie I am not the only one that thought Penn won the first two rounds, right?
> 
> I'm being vocal about it, but you do realize that I'm not the only one, including the judges?
> 
> ...


Apologies, I failed to find the original comment I mean to respond to but this is directed towards Sideways22222 or whatever. Thanks for pointing out what I know. I appear to be delusional. Physics was never my strong point (ps I'm being sarcy)


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> Getting 1 arm around his neck in back control is very simple. Fitch ha control the whole time and it was just a matter of time before he reverses.
> 
> The judges were also the dumbest judges i have seen in a long time. So gratz that you share an opinion with those uneducated retards.
> 
> Oh and Fitch also landed a good High kick.


Getting an arm in and almost connecting the other is almost sinking a choke. What exactly is your definition of sinking a choke? When you got an arm under the chin and your other arm is almost connected, it's close.

Fitch did nothing to win that round, if Penn had not taken him down got his back and almost sinked in the choke, Fitch would have won it casue he had penn against the cage longer, however, Penn DID almost choke him out, he did forcibly take him down and he did get his back.

This edged the round to him in both round 1 and round 2.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

M.C said:


> Penn had the choke in, his arm was under his chin both times, it was very close to locking it up, maybe you missed that part.
> 
> Also, it does win you the fight, when your opponeent doesn't do anything minus reversing a position, and when he did get on top Penn stood up right after.
> 
> ...


http://blog.fightmetric.com/2011/02...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

There is all the facts you need for round 2. The domination on fitches part is impressive.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Getting 1 arm around his neck in back control is very simple. Fitch ha control the whole time and it was just a matter of time before he reverses.
> 
> The judges were also the dumbest judges i have seen in a long time. So gratz that you share an opinion with those uneducated retards.
> 
> Oh and Fitch also landed a good High kick.


You realize the fact BJ had back control is huge right? The fact Fitch layed in BJ's closed guard without posturing up for a minute and a half before BJ shrugged him not so much. People need to take into account that the fact BJ got up before the round ended is big.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Toxic said:


> How on earth are people making an arguement that Fitch won round 2? His TD at the start was because BJ went for that knee and BJ just shrugged him off, BJ than defended Fitch's TD turned around and took Fitch down with authority and took his back which is considered a very dominant position, Fitch rolled out and ended up in BJ's guard but A that was not nearly as dominant a position as BJ had and B it was not because he took BJ down. rolling over into BJ's guard is not an offensive manuver that should score points its a defensive manuver because your opponent gained a dominant position. Do you guys score points for a fighter who is on his back and regains full guard from half guard? BJ clearly won the first two round every bit as clearly as he lost the third 10-8. That was a picture perfect draw.


>Ignores Fitch's big shot standing (biggest one of the fight)
>Ignores Fitchs striking inside the clinch
>Ignores Fitch's ground and pound in guard
>Ignores Fitch out striking Penn by quite a margin in the round
>Profit????????


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Yes, because Fithtmetric stats on a fight that took place only against the cage except when Penn put Fitch down and nearly chocked him out, means Fitch won.

I just saw the fight, I'm not blind, I score chokes, takedowns and dominant positions more than I score pitter patter shots agains the cage. I'm just cray like that.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> http://blog.fightmetric.com/2011/02...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
> 
> There is all the facts you need for round 2. The domination on fitches part is impressive.


Fightermetric is not "facts",


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Toxic said:


> You realize the fact BJ had back control is huge right? The fact Fitch layed in BJ's closed guard without posturing up for a minute and a half before BJ shrugged him not so much. People need to take into account that the fact BJ got up before the round ended is big.


http://blog.fightmetric.com/2011/02...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

That is all that needs to be said.

You guys are agreeing with the dumbest judges in UFC history. It says enough about you guys.

Oh so actually STATS arnt considered facts anymore?? Thats pretty hilarious.
Stats is all that matters.. rest is opinion.

Unless you want to make an argument that those STATS are wrong.


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## SonOfZion (Feb 14, 2011)

let me guess who was hanging in the "BJ Penn ROLL CALL" thread earlier?? hehe


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> >Ignores Fitch's big shot standing (biggest one of the fight)
> >Ignores Fitchs striking inside the clinch
> >Ignores Fitch's ground and pound in guard
> >Ignores Fitch out striking Penn by quite a margin in the round
> >Profit????????


>Ignore BJ's striking in the clinch (the stuff that did damage and left Fitch bleeding)
>Ignore BJ dictated were the fight went defending Fitch's take downs while landing his own with ease.
>Ignore BJ out grappling and out wrestling Fitch by a LARGE margin.


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## SonOfZion (Feb 14, 2011)

BJ knows he lost, let it go. He was ready to do a Fedor retirement speech til the ridiculous decision was announced. He looked depressed and beaten up.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Toxic said:


> >Ignore BJ's striking in the clinch (the stuff that did damage and left Fitch bleeding)
> >Ignore BJ dictated were the fight went defending Fitch's take downs while landing his own with ease.
> >Ignore BJ out grappling and out wrestling Fitch by a LARGE margin.


BJ landed one decent shot in the clinch which cut him. Fitch landed a huge shot standing and hurt Penn. Fitch out struck Penn on the feet, in clinch range and striking range. BJ had fitch's back for around 35 seconds and wasnt any where near close to sinking in a sub. Fitch reversed and controlled BJ for the rest of the fight and landed strikes on the ground.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

M.C said:


> Yes, because Fithtmetric stats on a fight that took place only against the cage except when Penn put Fitch down and nearly chocked him out, means Fitch won.
> 
> I just saw the fight, I'm not blind, I score chokes, takedowns and dominant positions more than I score pitter patter shots agains the cage. I'm just cray like that.


ur gonna bring down the ban hammer on me?? For what?? showing you that you are wrong? Thats admin abuse if iv ever seen it.



> I'm about to bring the banhammer down on your goofy arse


You are wrong and you are being called out on it. To threaten to bad me is pretty sad.


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Toxic said:


> How on earth are people making an arguement that Fitch won round 2? His TD at the start was because BJ went for that knee and BJ just shrugged him off, BJ than defended Fitch's TD turned around and took Fitch down with authority and took his back which is considered a very dominant position, Fitch rolled out and ended up in BJ's guard but A that was not nearly as dominant a position as BJ had and B it was not because he took BJ down. rolling over into BJ's guard is not an offensive manuver that should score points its a defensive manuver because your opponent gained a dominant position. Do you guys score points for a fighter who is on his back and regains full guard from half guard? BJ clearly won the first two round every bit as clearly as he lost the third 10-8. That was a picture perfect draw.


BJ took Fitch's back, but he didn't do anything.

MMA Junkie's analysys of the fight:

J


> ON FITCH VS. B.J. PENN
> 
> Round 1 - Referee Herb Dean in the cage for the evening's main event. Penn rushes forward at the bell and looks for a takedown. He gets deep on Fitch early, but he defends well against the cage. Fitch is firm on his feet, but Penn will not give up the attempt. Fitch spins off and puts Penn's back against the fence. Fitch working hard for a single-leg, but it's not there. Two minutes in, and little between the two. Penn throwing a few short elbows. Penn pulls away and after a few short punches ducks under and gets the takedown. Penn quickly transitions to the back and locks in a body triangle. Fitch is controlling the wrists in defense. Penn adjusts and looks for a rear-naked choke. Fitch pulls free, remains calm and spins over. Penn now with an open guard underneath. Penn kicks Fitch away and they reset on the feet. Fitch doesn't allow any space as he shoots in for the single immediately. Penn won't be taken down, and the round ends there. MMAjunkie.com sees it for Penn, 10-9.
> 
> ...


2nd round:
- both had one TD
- both scored with some punches
Pretty even so far:
- BJ took Fitch's back and lost the position
- Fitch controlled the last 90 seconds of the round

And, i will ask everyone again:
If round 1 was a 10-9 rd, how can rd 3 be a 10-9 rd also?!
Considering how Fitch dominated BJ in the 3rd, compared to how BJ won the first...It's insane!!


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> http://blog.fightmetric.com/2011/02...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
> 
> That is all that needs to be said.
> 
> ...


I don't understand how you or they came to the conclusion that some body shots that were pitter patter and did nothing neglect the fact that BJ defended almost all Fitch's TD's, took Fitch down and took his back. They are not accounting for positional dominance which is ludicrous. They also some how neglect the fact BJ damn near had a RNC and don't even account for him attempting a submission so your "facts" are definitely wrong.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I do love when people get so heated following what they deem to be a 'poor' decision, as though it's going to somehow change the outcome of the fight. It was declared a draw, folks... time to move on to the next one. I'm already thinking Bones/Rua... Fitch/Penn is yesterday's news.


----------



## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Mauled him or not, 3rd wasn't 10-8, Fitch had excellent top control and gnp, but 10-8 is a no.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> ur gonna bring down the ban hammer on me?? For what?? showing you that you are wrong? Thats admin abuse if iv ever seen it.


Where did he say he was going to ban you?

Can't people these days be fans but also be realistic about what actually happens?


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> Where did he say he was going to ban you?
> 
> Can't people these days be fans but also be realistic about what actually happens?


He sent me a neg saying he is going to bring the ban hammer down on me. He didnt sign it which is pretty pathetic BUT i assume it is him. If its someone pretending to be an MOD then that is Ban worthy.. i doubt people r that dumb.

Fans will never be realistic because it pains them too much to admit they were wrong. Round 1 goes to BJ but no way does round 2 go to him.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> ur gonna bring down the ban hammer on me?? For what?? showing you that you are wrong? Thats admin abuse if iv ever seen it.
> 
> 
> 
> You are wrong and you are being called out on it. To threaten to bad me is pretty sad.


What the hell are you talking about, when did I ever say I was going to ban you? You do realie I can check reps and easily prove that I did't say that, right?


----------



## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Ban McKeever for not having a bias. Bj won because I like him better.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

limba said:


> BJ took Fitch's back, but he didn't do anything.
> 
> MMA Junkie's analysys of the fight:
> 
> ...


BJ took Fitch's back that is huge, BJ shrugged off Fitch's TD in mere seconds so its practically nill and void,it counts but for little considering how long he held it, Fitch gaining top position counts for nothing because it was defensive not offensive grappling so all he gets is control for a minute and a half in BJ's closed guard which is the least dominant position you can have on the ground, BJ had the most dominant position you can get.

And Round 3 was 10-8 Fitch, saying anything else is just wrong. The fight was a draw.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

M.C said:


> What the hell are you talking about, when did I ever say I was going to ban you? You do realie I can check reps and easily prove that I did't say that, right?


If its not you then i apologize. 

Please check my reps and tell me who that was. 

raise01: raise01:

sorry.

I assumed it was you because i didnt expect someone that isnt a mod to be stupid enough to leave that neg.



> I'm about to bring the banhammer down on your goofy arse


That was the neg i received. Only thing that surprised me was that it was not signed. Mods have always signed their negs from my knowledge.


----------



## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Anyone have a link to the post fight press conference?


----------



## SonOfZion (Feb 14, 2011)

Ok BJ fans, i give up trying to convince you he clearly lost.


Can i convince you that BJ will never be WW Champ again??



Can i convince you that if he fought Fitch in a 5 rounder he would get finished or quit???



small victories. Fitch style


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> If its not you then i apologize.
> 
> Please check my reps and tell me who that was.
> 
> ...


I assure you, I did not leave any such neg rep. I'm on staff for a reason, if I did such things I would be removed from staff.

Just cause we disagree does not mean I would, or could ban you. If I did or threatened to do so, my mod tag would be removed.

I will check and see who said it when everything cools down and let you know.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> BJ landed one decent shot in the clinch which cut him. Fitch landed a huge shot standing and hurt Penn. Fitch out struck Penn on the feet, in clinch range and striking range. BJ had fitch's back for around 35 seconds and wasnt any where near close to sinking in a sub. Fitch reversed and controlled BJ for the rest of the fight and landed strikes on the ground.


Out struck him in striking range one body shot, the only punch thrown in striking range in the second according to your "facts". Also according to them BJ landed more head shots in the clinch, Fitch got a couple more body shots and landed 4 leg jabs what ever the hell that is supposed to mean. (I think it means those cute little knees to the leg that accomplish nothing). All Fitch's strike in the second were on the ground from BJ's closed guard while not even posturing up.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

M.C said:


> I assure you, I did not leave any such neg rep. I'm on staff for a reason, if I did such things I would be removed from staff.
> 
> Just cause we disagree does not mean I would, or could ban you. If I did or threatened to do so, my mod tag would be removed.
> 
> I will check and see who said it when everything cools down and let you know.


Thats also what i thought. But as i said... i didnt think people r dumb enough to pretend to be mods. 

Again i apologize. I shouldn't have assumed.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Toxic said:


> BJ took Fitch's back that is huge, BJ shrugged off Fitch's TD in mere seconds so its practically nill and void,it counts but for little considering how long he held it, Fitch gaining top position counts for nothing because *it was defensive not offensive grappling* so all he gets is control for a minute and a half in BJ's closed guard which is the least dominant position you can have on the ground, *BJ had the most dominant position you can get.*


BJ took Fitch's back for 30-40 seconds?! Tried a RNC and once he lost the position, he didn't do anything. That's my point!

Once Fitch reversed position it was all offensive. 
Fitch's GnP was his usual and BJ had no answer, he just defended himself.

I can't see how BJ won that round.

I may have a different set of judging criterias, but BJ didn't win that round as far as i'm concerned.
One TD + one elbow + taking someone's back for 30 seconds does not equal winning a round!


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Penn won the competition while jon won the fight because of the last round.


Much like rampage(diaz') thats how penn thinks, they both have the PRIDE mindset.

Thats penns belief in the first GSP fight that he won because casusing the most damage while GSP just controlled.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

SonOfZion said:


> Can i convince you that BJ will never be WW Champ again??


 Yesterday I would have believed you after he just went to a draw with the #2 WW in the world I still lean that way but I am not nearly as confident in that.




> Can i convince you that if he fought Fitch in a 5 rounder he would get finished or quit???


 Its hard to say, you need to be realistic about the fact that in a five rounder Fitch wouldn't have had that sense of urgency that brought out the animal in him that he ussually lacks.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Yesterday I would have believed you after he just went to a draw with the #2 WW in the world I still lean that way but I am not nearly as confident in that.
> 
> 
> Its hard to say, you need to be realistic about the fact that in a five rounder Fitch wouldn't have had that sense of urgency that brought out the animal in him that he ussually lacks.


You cant even admit that Fitch would have won in a 5 rounder???

Wow... lol

ur a funny one Toxic
And real stubborn.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Limba said:


> One TD + one elbow + taking someone's back for 30 seconds does not equal winning a round!


Theres my point to, it doesn't mean a BJ round, but it definitely wasn't a fitch round either, that's where I found the draw in the fight in the 2nd, not in a 10-8 3rd. I guess everyone just has to agree to disagree on this fight.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

limba said:


> BJ took Fitch's back for 30-40 seconds?! Tried a RNC and once he lost the position, he didn't do anything. That's my point!
> 
> Once Fitch reversed position it was all offensive.
> Fitch's GnP was his usual and BJ had no answer, he just defended himself.
> ...


being in someones guard for 1:00 while not landing anything significant is not more then taking someones back and nearly getting a RNC for 45 secs.

Fitch landed effective strikes in the third not the second or the first


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Anyway, respect fo BJ for fighting into Fitch stregth and taking the fight to him.
Also - tons of fair play from him after the fight.
My respect for him has gone way up!

Fitch - not much to say about him. 
Same old Fitch. On tough dude, gotta give it to him.

After watching this fight, all i can say; if Shields doesn't beat GSP - no WW will!!!

Only way GSP loses his title is if he vacates it or retires!


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Fitch would have won in a 5 rounder, Penn was pretty dang tired at the end there, and Penn would also not beat GSP if they fought again, cause it would be 5 rounds and GSP is a level above Fitch.

However, in this fight, I stand by Penn winning R1 and R2, then got dominanted in R3 to draw it. The judges feel so, I feel so, quite a few people actually feel so.

Difference in how each person scores a fight, it happens, and is nothing to get in a toss over, so not a warning or anything, but just a reminder for everyone to keep the debate clean and civil, it's just a difference in how one would socre a fight.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

limba said:


> BJ took Fitch's back for 30-40 seconds?! Tried a RNC and once he lost the position, he didn't do anything. That's my point!


 Actually once he lost the position he tied Fitch up to prevent him from posturing up and then stood up.


> Once Fitch reversed position it was all offensive.
> Fitch's GnP was his usual and BJ had no answer, he just defended himself.


 Clearly standing back up is having an answer, Fitch being unable to maintain the position was a factor here.


> I can't see how BJ won that round.


 I can't see how anyone could even argue Fitch won it, I think trying to argue that round 2 was anything but BJ is like trying to argue that round 3 was a 10-9 and not 10-8.


> I may have a different set of judging criterias, but BJ didn't win that round as far as i'm concerned.
> One TD + one elbow + taking someone's back for 30 seconds does not equal winning a round!


 Landing more power shots in the clinch, defending the TD,scoring the TD, taking the back, having the arm under the neck and going for the RNC, absolutly means you take the round when your opponent scores a TD off a failed flying knee that is easily shrugged off, defends a choke, finally rolls you over proceeds to lay in your guard unable to do anything. Aggression, octagon control, damage all Penn.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

The poll in this thread is almost eerie, isn't it?


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> BJ can take fitch down.
> 
> Fitch doesn't really have great TDD and BJ has seriously underrated TD's everyone always talks about his TDD but his offensive wrestling is just as good as his defensive, he took GSP down in the first fight and yes that was years ago but straight after GSP was stuffing hughes with ease and that was when matts wrestling was still some of the best.
> 
> Obviously it's very doubtful that he will be able to control fitch on the ground but if he utilizes it then he can throw fitch off a bit.


other people quote themselves so i will


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> You cant even admit that Fitch would have won in a 5 rounder???
> 
> Wow... lol
> 
> ...


The way the fight was going would Fitch have won? Absolutely BJ was completely broken mentally and physically at the end of round 3. Thing is that Fitch came out a whole different fighter because he had a sense of urgency due to his corner telling him he needed to end it.(obviously they weren't as confident as you in his big round 2). In a 5 round fight Fitch may have came out the same as rounds 1 and 2 and BJ could still have fought round 1 and 2 Fitch he was just not prepared for a desperate Jon Fitch who actually lays a beating instead of laying and pitter pattering. Your underestimating how big the sense of urgency had an effect on how Fitch performed in the 3rd.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

box said:


> Theres my point to, it doesn't mean a BJ round, but it definitely wasn't a fitch round either, that's where I found the draw in the fight in the 2nd, not in a 10-8 3rd. I guess everyone just has to agree to disagree on this fight.



We could go on for days...wich will happen for some people.

I will stick to what i believe: Fitch should have won this.
Close decision, but i think he did more damage and controlled the fight more than BJ did.
Plus, the last 7-8 minutes of the fight were all Fitch.
The first 7-8 minutes were 50/50..maybe 60/40 BJ.

In the end, i am quite glad it's a draw.
Neither guy deserves a shot at GSP.
Maybe if GSP vacates the belt, but other than that...NO!


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## SonOfZion (Feb 14, 2011)

BJ Penn, one of the best 10min WWs in the world!!


Dana should change WW fights to 2 rounds so BJ has a chance vs Fitch or GSP in the future.


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## 6toes (Sep 9, 2007)

Canadian Psycho said:


> The poll in this thread is almost eerie, isn't it?


I was thinking the same thing :confused05:. :thumb02:


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Actually once he lost the position he tied Fitch up to prevent him from posturing up and then stood up.
> Clearly standing back up is having an answer, Fitch being unable to maintain the position was a factor here.
> I can't see how anyone could even argue Fitch won it, I think trying to argue that round 2 was anything but BJ is like trying to argue that round 3 was a 10-9 and not 10-8.
> Landing more power shots in the clinch, defending the TD,scoring the TD, taking the back, having the arm under the neck and going for the RNC, absolutly means you take the round when your opponent scores a TD off a failed flying knee that is easily shrugged off, defends a choke, finally rolls you over proceeds to lay in your guard unable to do anything. *Aggression, octagon control, damage all Penn.*


We could go on for days.
Like i've said: we have different criterias on wich we scored this fight.

Aggression? - I wouldn't say BJ was more aggressive than Fitch.
Octagon control? - more like controlling Fitch in thoses 30-40 seconds he had his back, but losing that position doesn't really equall control.
Damage? - the only famage BJ did was when he caught Fitch with that elbow and made him bleed.

I believe Fitch did enough to win it, but it's a draw officially and that's how it's gonna remain.


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## tidgypud (Feb 27, 2011)

guy incognito said:


> other people quote themselves so i will


Other people quote themselves but I won't. However, I agree with everything you've said. Fitch's offensive wrestling is unquestionable.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

limba said:


> We could go on for days.
> Like i've said: we have different criterias on wich we scored this fight.
> 
> Aggression? - I wouldn't say BJ was more aggressive than Fitch.


 BJ went for a flying knee and took Fitch down and went for a RNC, clearly trying to end the fight which equals aggression, Fitch when he ended up in dominant position layed in the closed guard clearly lacking aggression.


> Octagon control? - more like controlling Fitch in thoses 30-40 seconds he had his back, but losing that position doesn't really equall control.


 shrugging Fitch off, defending Fitchs TD attempts and then taking Fitch down equals octagon control, BJ controlled that octagon for at least 3 minutes of that round.


> Damage? - the only famage BJ did was when he caught Fitch with that elbow and made him bleed.


 Which trumps the zero damage Fitch did that round.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Toxic said:


> BJ went for a flying knee and took Fitch down and went for a RNC, clearly trying to end the fight which equals aggression, Fitch when he ended up in dominant position layed in the closed guard clearly lacking aggression.
> shrugging Fitch off, defending Fitchs TD attempts and then taking Fitch down equals octagon control, BJ controlled that octagon for at least 3 minutes of that round.
> Which trumps the zero damage Fitch did that round.


Let's agree on one thing.
Something needs to change when it comes to judging.

I can't trust these judges when i know how they scored the Fukuda-Ring fight. And one of the hudges scored the Siver-Sotiropoulus fight 30-27!

More and more bad judging.
I know it's not the UFC's fault, but...they need to come up with something.

One solution - judges should make the scores available after each round.
That way each fighter would know where he stands and how hard he needs to push.
I am sick of poor decisions.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

limba said:


> Let's agree on one thing.
> Something needs to change when it comes to judging.
> 
> I can't trust these judges when i know how they scored the Fukuda-Ring fight. And one of the hudges scored the Siver-Sotiropoulus fight 30-27!
> ...


I am one of the few who does not want the judging criteria changed, I think it needs consistency more than anything but I have yet to see a better system. I think the Japansese scoring system is every bit as flawed as ours. I didn't see the Fukada/Ring fight so I can't comment but it sounds like it was just a standard robbery to me not a judging criteria problem.

I think having fighters know were they stand can work badly and make fighters fight safe as well.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

BJ executed a horrible gameplan, yet again.

He tried to wrestle head to head with someone bigger and stronger than him.

His corner gave him hall of fame worthy crappy advice(as it always does): "fast punches, fast punches".

He got Fitch down & immediately went for the finish when he probably would have been better off taking things step by step and wearing Fitch down a little before trying to sink in the sub.

Penn also stood directly in front of Fitch the entire fight which is a pretty dumb move. He probably would have done better if he moved more and gave Fitch angles like he did with Hughes.

Seems like Penn is a very good fighter, but his training staff and corner don't have the same level of sophistication or training that Fitch does. They come up with the dumbest fight plans known to man. And, at some point in his fights against Edgar and Fitch, it seems like Penn realizes hes being out-classed and neither he nor his corner has an answer.

I thought Fitch won. Although, I was hoping Penn would pull the upset.


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## Hail the Potato (Jul 29, 2010)

Personally, I saw the 2nd round as a draw and the 3rd round as 10-9, but I can understand giving BJ the 2nd and 10-8 for the 3rd. 

Round scoring aside, I feel that Fitch really won, because I think the later rounds should count more, and I could even see possibly giving him the 2nd too. 

If this was a 5 rounder BJ would have been finished. 
Fitch vs Penn is an awesome SUPER FIGHT between 2 championship caliber fighters. And as such, they should go 5 rounds. A finish would have been a much more satisfying ending than a close decision.

I absolutely loved this fight and am excited for a rematch. Not sure if a lot of people felt the same way though. 5 Rounds for the rematch!


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## donbarz (Apr 24, 2010)

*Was Penn/Fitch a good example of MMA at a crossroads*

First let me get my bias out in the open, im a big BJ Penn fan but im not blinded by that and i believe BJ lost the fight to Fitch (the 2nd round was close but i think Fitch took it)

But watching that fight i couldn't help but feel that it is a really good example of how MMA is changing or at least at a crossroad in how it will look in the future

In the 2nd round when BJ went for the flying knee i was yelling No!, and sure enough when it failed to land it opened him up for an easy takedown. Both times BJ took Fitch down, he went aggressively for the back and the choke. The first time i cheered, but the second time i was yelling No! just stay on top as best you can.

I want to cheer for flying knees and aggressive guard passing or submission attempts, but with judges awarding staying inside guard as long as you stay active with strikes (regardless of the amount of damage they do) it doesn't seem to make sense anymore for fighters to take these chances.

Is this just the sport evolving and we should accept it or will it be bad for the sport when fighters like BJ Penn start thinking twice about going for flying knees and chokes?


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

There are two types of fighters in MMA.

Guys that look to finish, and guys who don't, but will go for a finish if it is safe enough/presents itself without much risk.

Penn is a guy who likes to finish. That's why Penn has so many fans, he goes for flying knees, he goes for chokes, he goes in there trying to hurt you and put you away as fast as he can. He's exciting, when he fights sparks fly, even when fighting a guy like Fitch who is as boring as watching paint dry, he makes the fight entertaining and exciting.

To answer your question:

No, fighters like Penn won't start thinking twice about flying knees and chokes and going for the finish/kill, it is part of them to fight with passion, fight with the whole purpose of putting their opponent away. There are honestly not many fighters like Penn, it's why he's a legend and one of the best ever.

There will always be fighters who straight up want to be exciting and try to finish.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Like the dude above, ill expand there are actually three types of fighters, guys who can finish,guys who try to finish but can't and jon fitch. Examples guys who can finish-anderson silva, example guys who try to finish but can't gsp, and then there is jon fitch. Fitch I think plays it beyond safe. If Bj penn was not fighting fitch tonight i would have not watched. Jon fitch puts me to sleep better than sleeping pills. He is good at what he does, he is a great fighter, but when i pay 55 dollars i want to be entertain. I would rahter watch silva dance around for 5 rounds than a jon fitch fight. I don't get it though Dana is always on silva case for not finishing fights. But Jon fitch dominates his opponents to the point where there helpless. For example tonight was he afraid of getting gas if he punched bj a little harder, or was he scared that hitting bj for the tko would leave him in a bad position. 

I'll sum it up by saying Jon fitch is a great fighter just not worth a pay per view buy.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Jacksons helped Marquardt 'evolve' from a ruthless finisher to a strategic fighter and now he's losing.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Jacksons helped Marquardt 'evolve' from a ruthless finisher to a strategic fighter and now he's losing.


nate sucked before jackon, jackson helped him not get his ass kicked as when he fights contenders he loses via decisions.


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## donbarz (Apr 24, 2010)

Thanks for the responses everyone. But I didn't want to turn this into a Fitch sucks thread. I am hoping that TraMaI and some other Fitch or GSP fans will reply with their thoughts on if they think the sport has changed or is changing.

For example, now that BJ seems to have coaches that come up with real gameplans (sure as hell surprised me to see him come out going for takedowns). I bet his coaches will review the fight and try to convince BJ that the flying knee was a bad idea, and that without the knee or the quick transitions to choke attempts he stood a much better chance at winning the first 2 rounds and also not expend so much energy on the choke attempts.

I understand we like excitement and want to pay for that. But as more fighters see that being overly aggressive hurts their chances to win, then they will change.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

box said:


> I saw it (10-9 Penn, 10-10, 10-9 fitch), for a Draw. For a 10-8 round, you have to rock the other fighter imo, you can't just pin them to hold position and land enough punches to not get stood up. That's my take on this.


Exactly. That 3rd round was weird, i'd say that Jon was really dominant in the round but on the other hand he only did enough to stay on the ground and didn't do any damage.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

donbarz said:


> Thanks for the responses everyone. But I didn't want to turn this into a Fitch sucks thread. I am hoping that TraMaI and some other Fitch or GSP fans will reply with their thoughts on if they think the sport has changed or is changing.
> 
> For example, now that BJ seems to have coaches that come up with real gameplans (sure as hell surprised me to see him come out going for takedowns). I bet his coaches will review the fight and try to convince BJ that the flying knee was a bad idea, and that without the knee or the quick transitions to choke attempts he stood a much better chance at winning the first 2 rounds and also not expend so much energy on the choke attempts.
> 
> I understand we like excitement and want to pay for that. But as more fighters see that being overly aggressive hurts their chances to win, then they will change.


Alright i'll stop my fitch hate and give u a serious answer. I don't think fitch is part of the evolution of mma as good as he is and as good as he can be he can never beat gsp. He is 33 and i don't see him getting that much better. I do see fighters in the near future having fitch wrestling ability but more better overall. Jon Jones is a great example of the evolution of mma. Jon Fitch is a great fighter but he has maxed out. Unless he starts striking and mixes it up he will alway be second or third best at ww.


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## anderton46 (Apr 23, 2010)

I think there are so many different factors to include. I mean FOTN bonus's for lower tier fighters are huge and often quadriple their salary. They probably balance out if its worth it and in alot of cases it is. But yeah my point is there are so many factors. Do they want to be a fan favourite, do they want a reputation as being boring? The guys who are ruthless atm are ruthless due to that being their nature, not because of any decisions they've, its just natural. I doubt they'll change. 

What I will say is perhaps as the sport grows more guys will come into this sport with that mindset of just getting the W


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

I think its moreso an example of how crappy Penn's coaching and training staff is moreso than anything else. He's been bringing in quality people like Hughes, but its not enough.

BJ lost twice to Frankie Edgar.

At some point, he realizes he should have gone balls to the walls against Edgar & that it would be his best chance to win.

Based on that, BJ and his planning / strategy camp think... "Oh, the answer must be to go balls to the wall against Jon Fitch".

Its a gameplan that makes as much sense as Jose Aldo trying to overpower and outwrestle Brock Lesnar.

AKA -- VERY DUMB IDEA.

Yet due to the low quality of Penn's staff, none of them seem to realize why its a bad idea to try that approach against someone who has a size and weight advantage.

Ditto with the way Penn tried to finish the fight. He needed to pick his spots and use the right tool for the job like Anderson Silva does. When there's an opening for a kick, Silva kicks. He does a flying knee when there's a perfect opportunity for one. He lets circumstances dictate what he does and looks for the perfect opportunity to execute.

Penn tried to force the finish and went for a RNC when maybe it would have been better to go for GnP or something else.

He tried to force a flying knee when Fitch was too far away from him.

He had a bad gameplan and made a lot of fundamental errors.

You're right in that it shows how things have evolved. BJ might have gotten away with making those types of mistakes in the past. But, these days its harder and harder to get away with things..


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

Those were some first 2 rounds! When BJ defended the TD, took Fitch down, and tried to get the RNC in, I thought how can you finish a guy like Fitch this quick.. when you're almost twice his size. But, ofcourse, you can't.. not this time anyway.. ray01:
I hope there'll be a rematch and BJ will train like a motherf***er, so he can kick Fitch's ass.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Leed said:


> Those were some first 2 rounds! When BJ defended the TD, took Fitch down, and tried to get the RNC in, I thought how can you finish a guy like Fitch this quick.. *when you're almost twice his size.* But, ofcourse, you can't.. not this time anyway.. ray01:
> I hope there'll be a rematch and BJ will train like a motherf***er, so he can kick Fitch's ass.


Twice his size?! Wat are you talking about?!

The difference is size and weight wasn't that big actually.
I don't think there were more than 10 lbs between them. 
Considering how many people said Fitch would be at over 190 lbs on fight night and BJ at 170-175.

The difference in cardio though, yes!
Fitch had enough fuel to go one or two rounds. BJ didn't.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Leed said:


> Those were some first 2 rounds! When BJ defended the TD, took Fitch down, and tried to get the RNC in, I thought how can you finish a guy like Fitch this quick.. when you're almost twice his size. But, ofcourse, you can't.. not this time anyway.. ray01:
> I hope there'll be a rematch and BJ will train like a motherf***er, so he can kick Fitch's ass.


It'll be a completely different fight next time round. Different game plans on both parts. I'd be curious to see if BJ can take Fitch down in a second fight like he did last night. Fitch did say afterwards he trained NO defensive wrestling as he didn't expect that? Who knows.

I scored it a draw with the 10 point must, Gave BJ the first two, and Fitch the 3rd with a 10-8 round. 

BJ sounded very mentally beaten afterwards though  That 3rd round was rough.


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

limba said:


> Twice his size?! Wat are you talking about?!
> 
> The difference is size and weight wasn't that big actually.
> I don't think there were more than 10 lbs between them.
> ...


I obviously didn't mean the 'twice' literary, but you can't deny the difference in size and strenght. I doubt BJ was even over 170 fight night, and Fitch is definately stronger than BJ.



KryOnicle said:


> BJ sounded very mentally beaten afterwards though  That 3rd round was rough.


He did sound broken, but atleast he also did smile a bit when he said "but.. if god gave me the draw, and Fitch wants to fight again, I'll do it". :thumb02:


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## tkoshea (Nov 14, 2010)

If anyone won the fight it was Fitch, of course....but a draw is not an outrageous result.

Penn won the first round for me and was winning the second before Fitch turn when BJ had his back and finished the stronger. I don't really think if you judge the round as a whole it was easily Fitch's round because before the last min Penn had been the stronger. I can see why a draw would be awarded for that round.

Final round, well Fitch decievely won it.

To me though I can see why a draw was rewarded and I wasn't shocked when it was announced.

I think possibly its a problem with the way MMA fights are judged. They basically use the boxing scoring system and I am not sure it always accurately reflects the result of an mma match like it does a boxing match.

For one, in boxing a knock down is much more significant so it easily scores the round 10/8 and reflects the dominance of that round to one fighter.

In mma there are usually only 3 rounds, 5 at most (boxing has 10/12 rounds for the scoring system to take shape and the best fighter on the night to win on points)

Personally I think judging the fight as a whole would be better for mma than using the round by round boxing score card system.

Or, at least develop a way to reflect key moments in a fight on the score card (like how a knock down does on boxing) in other words in some way a dominant round needs to score more (somehow) than a round in which there was no clear winner but it gets awarded to one guy.

Last night for example, is it fair that BJ wins a round 10/9 for the first and Fitch's third round is only 10/9 also? To me the thrid round for Fitch is equally dominant as a boxing round where a knock down was scored and in some way there should be a criteria in place to reflect the dominance of a fighter in a round with a 10/8 or even 10/7 rounds...after all not all rounds are created equal and over 3 rounds key action should be more significant and 10/8 rounds should be more frequent when a fighter kicks the others arse.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

I actually thought BJ had the right gameplan and being more aggressive was working for him.

What the fight really showed me was that against a bigger Welterweight Penn will struggle - the first round he executed his plan to a T, but he started to tire and get out muscled by the better conditioned stronger man.

I fear for Penn if these 2 had a 5 round rematch cos the longer a fight between these 2 goes on the more it becomes the grinders paradise!


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

Trix said:


> BJ executed a horrible gameplan, yet again.
> 
> He tried to wrestle head to head with someone bigger and stronger than him.
> 
> ...


why are you commenting like someone that hasnt watched penn before? There is a reason he immediately went for a sub when he took fitch down and its the same reason he stood infront of fitch the whole night rather than imitate frankie edgar and its because......wait for it....those things are physically taxing.BJ penn doesnt have the mentality or cardio to grind fights out he looked for the shortest route to end the fight and still got tired..Has nothing to do with bad gameplans/trainers


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## Abrissbirne (Jul 4, 2010)

i had it 28-28 i think it was fair.
First was clarly BJ, the second was close but BJ did enough to win it. Last one was 10-8, totally ok with this result. Great fight by BJ!


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Kreed said:


> There is a reason he immediately went for a sub when he took fitch down and its the same reason he stood infront of fitch the whole night rather than imitate frankie edgar and its because......wait for it....those things are physically taxing.BJ penn doesnt have the mentality or cardio to grind fights out he looked for the shortest route to end the fight and still got tired..Has nothing to do with bad gameplans/trainers



Imagine a midget trying to wrestle with a sumo wrestler or Jose Aldo trying to out-wrestle Brock Lesnar. That's what BJ trying to win a wrestling match with Fitch is.

When there are 2 fighters with close to the same skillset wrestling -- the smaller, lighter, guy ALWAYS gets tired first. It has nothing to do with cardio. The smaller fighter expends more energy to maintain or reverse position. That's the reason why lots of people expected Forrest to turn his fight with Franklin into a wrestling match. He would have the advantage and Franklin would get tired, first.

Fitch has spent years developing his style of fighting against the cage and grinding people out on the ground. He knows a lot about playing that game, and it really is his element. 

Has BJ spent anywhere near the amount of time or effort fighting in that environment? Hell no. His BJJ is good, but when it comes to blanketing people holding them down and grounding and pounding and fighting against the fence -- that's Fitch's world, not BJ's. 

BJ has made the same mistake twice. He fought Edgar in his environment -- in the center of the octagon letting him go in and out. Now, he's fought Fitch in his environment, against the cage in a wrestling match.

So, yeah. BJ and his crew definitely come up with the worst possible gameplans.

They probably still don't understand how Edgar won. 

They're not top level trainers and coaches. They just don't have the knowledge. 

BJ would be better off if he trained with AKA or somewhere else.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

I had the first round for BJ, the second round was pretty clearly Fitch's in my opinion and the third 10-8 Fitch. I felt he did enough in the second round to win it although BJ had his back at one occasion. He landed some good shots and BJ never really did anything but defend after Fitch got out of the RNC position.


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

edlavis88 said:


> I actually thought BJ had the right gameplan and being more aggressive was working for him.
> 
> What the fight really showed me was that against a bigger Welterweight Penn will struggle - the first round he executed his plan to a T, but he started to tire and get out muscled by the better conditioned stronger man.


agree, 

I loved his game plan in this fight it just sucks it did not work out


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

All said, ... it was the most exciting Fitch Fight I can think of but, it left me feeling just like BJ looks here.










It will be cool to see who adjusts better in the rematch but, I'm afraid of the answer.

War BJ


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

I dont know if I want to see the rematch. I expected BJ to stomp Fitch, I really did. 

I still can not believe BJ had his back twice and got reversed, im ******* shocked. If he was just patient, softened him up with punches, flattened him out.

The entire fight it seemed like he was in too much of a rush. He had all the time in the world in that first round to work his BJJ, but he rushed and got reversed. God damn it.

Post fight interview was sad, I dont know if i want to see that again.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

This is rough on Fitch, you can't call the draw a terrible call, but BJ acted like a beat man and said himself he got beat. Props to Fitch for saying he will fight as many as it takes, he's got to be losing patience soon.

I agree Mckeever, Penn definitely could have taken his time with those positions, just concentrate on a good grip and softening him up. But he rushed, got loose and Fitch span round.

Not sure a rematch is the best thing here, tough call.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SM33 said:


> This is rough on Fitch, you can't call the draw a terrible call, but BJ acted like a beat man and said himself he got beat. Props to Fitch for saying he will fight as many as it takes, he's got to be losing patience soon.
> 
> I agree Mckeever, Penn definitely could have taken his time with those positions, just concentrate on a good grip and softening him up. But he rushed, got loose and Fitch span round.
> 
> Not sure a rematch is the best thing here, tough call.


Yea, he was so close to finishing Fitch, but yet so far away. If he was just patient.

I have NEVER seen BJ give up back control so easily like that, never. He is normally patient in that position and executes the sub perfectly, I was shocked.

I'm annoyed and sad at the same time.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Leed said:


> I obviously didn't mean the 'twice' literary, but you can't deny the difference in size and strenght. I doubt BJ was even over 170 fight night, and Fitch is definately stronger than BJ.


BJ weighed in at 169 lbs. I don't think he was lighter than 169 on fight night - NO WAY! Definitely heavier. 175 maybe?!
What i was trying to say is - so many people (me included) expected Fitch to have a HUGE size and stregth advantage over BJ. There were a lot of talks about Fitch coming in at 195-200 on fight night. But it didn;t happen. I don't think he was heavier than 190.
But i may be wrong.
And yes, Fitch had a size and stregth advantage over BJ, but not like people expected it to be.



Mckeever said:


> I dont know if I want to see the rematch. I expected BJ to stomp Fitch, I really did.
> 
> *I still can not believe BJ had his back twice and got reversed, im ******* shocked. If he was just patient, softened him up with punches, flattened him out.*
> 
> ...


First thing that came to my mind was the BJ-Florian fight and how he choked out Kenny.
When i saw him getting Fitch's back, i thought - it could happen. But Fitch didn't look in that much trouble honestly.
Fitch looked composed.
that took a bit chunck out of BJ's confidence i think.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Trix said:


> *Imagine a midget trying to wrestle with a sumo wrestler or Jose Aldo trying to out-wrestle Brock Lesnar. That's what BJ trying to win a wrestling match with Fitch is.*
> 
> When there are 2 fighters with close to the same skillset wrestling -- *the smaller, lighter, guy ALWAYS gets tired first. It has nothing to do with cardio.* The smaller fighter expends more energy to maintain or reverse position. That's the reason why lots of people expected Forrest to turn his fight with Franklin into a wrestling match. He would have the advantage and Franklin would get tired, first.
> 
> ...


First of all. IT IS NOTHING LIKE THOSE 2 SCENARIOS YOU BROUGHT UP. BJ wrestling Fitch isnt even remotely similar to Jose Aldo wrestling Brock or a Midget wrestling a sumo wrestler. I cannot even believe that you just said that. If you think BJ is that far behind Fitch in the wrestling department then you are crazy. BJ Penn wrestling Fitch and wrestling BROCK LESNAR is such a crazy difference it isnt even fun to make fun of you. BJ took Fitch down twice if you dont remember?? How do you think Aldo would against Brock?? Brock would pick him up WWE style and throw him over the octagon. Then climb on top of the octagon and give him a frog splash through Joe Rogans announcer table.

Second of all. It has EVERYTHING to do with cardio. If BJ had the Cardio Fitch has then that third round would have been completely different even though BJ was smaller. Also i wanna point out that Fitch wasnt that much bigger then BJ. Fitch was about 175-177 pounds come fight time and it showed. BJ looked thicker then Fitch did except Fitch is a bit taller so obviously he has more weight. People are acting like Fitch came in at regular fitch size which isnt true at all. He was visibly skinnier because of his Vegan diet. So Fitch didnt enjoy the size advantage he usually does.

Also yeah ofcourse the smaller guy spends more energy if the skill level is equal. But usually the smaller guy tends to have better Cardio to make up for it. Perfect example is Frankie Edgar. He is one of the smallest guys in that division and yet he wrestles 5 rounds with the biggest and best of them no problem. If BJ had better cardio there is a good chance he would have gotten a decision victory. Sadly he has never been one to have impressive cardio.


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

SM33 said:


> This is rough on Fitch, you can't call the draw a terrible call, but BJ acted like a beat man and said himself he got beat. *Props to Fitch for saying he will fight as many as it takes, he's got to be losing patience soon.*
> 
> I agree Mckeever, Penn definitely could have taken his time with those positions, just concentrate on a good grip and softening him up. But he rushed, got loose and Fitch span round.
> 
> Not sure a rematch is the best thing here, tough call.


The fuk are you talkin about where else does fitch have to go? hes not in a rush to end his career or change weight classes.The ww division is hardly deep, and aside from shields he shouldnt have too much trouble with the rest of the field...If he was as impatient or wanted the title shot so badly do you really think he would stand pat and persist with his plodding technique? The guy is a "white american" who has a record that stands at 13-1-1 and barely any fans to show for it..I dont know where you are gettin this "losing patience" nonsense from, sounds like transference on your part 

And as for BJ's reaction u are reading way too much into it, hes an emotionally guy who had visions of gsp's fight in that last rd.Everything said should've been taken with levity


Trix said:


> *Imagine a midget trying to wrestle with a sumo wrestler or Jose Aldo trying to out-wrestle Brock Lesnar. That's what BJ trying to win a wrestling match with Fitch is.*
> 
> *When there are 2 fighters with close to the same skillset wrestling -- the smaller, lighter, guy ALWAYS gets tired first. It has nothing to do with cardio. The smaller fighter expends more energy to maintain or reverse position.* That's the reason why lots of people expected Forrest to turn his fight with Franklin into a wrestling match. He would have the advantage and Franklin would get tired, first.
> 
> ...


I dont know what other tactic you were hoping for tbh..Like I already stated he doesnt have the miles to float like a butterfly & sting like a bee..He wasnt goin to ever knockout fitch because he could never get his feet firmly planted to get enough behind his jabs (out of fear of TD) 

Some fighters are just bad matchups and penn's happen to be wrestlers (in their prime)


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

*Morning After: Judges were wrong, Fitch Won.*



> Show the B.J. Penn vs. Jon Fitch fight to people who don't know how MMA is judged, and ask them who won. They'd tell you it was Fitch, obviously. But of the three people whose job it was to decide who won, only one said Fitch was the winner. The other two said it was a draw, and so that was the result: No one won the main event at UFC 127.
> 
> What's unfortunate is that the people who don't know anything about MMA would have done a better job of judging this fight than the professional judges.
> 
> ...



Not sure who this guys is but he pretty much read my mind. I agree with everything he said except il be re-watching the fight tomorrow. I doubt my opinion will change, it will just solidify my stance on Fitch winning round 2. :thumbsup:


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

> But in Australia the UFC isn't beholden to any athletic commission and can choose which judges it brings in. It's the UFC's responsibility to make sure the judges don't suck.


Didn't know that...

White is to blame for this then. He rants about how he can't do anything about judging and yet in Australia, he can decide who gets to judge. I feel bad for Fitch, he works his ass off and doesn't complain, will take any fight the UFC throws at him and yet he gets robbed of #1 title contender status.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Spec0688 said:


> Didn't know that...
> 
> White is to blame for this then. He rants about how he can't do anything about judging and yet in Australia, he can decide who gets to judge. I feel bad for Fitch, he works his ass off and doesn't complain, will take any fight the UFC throws at him and yet he gets robbed of #1 title contender status.


The saddest thing is. The guy had 8 wins in a row in the UFC 16 wins in a row all together to FINALLY get a title shot. Now he has 5 wins in a row and 1 draw and he still has no idea when he is going to get his shot. He can go on to beat 10 guys in a row and then lose 1 fight and he would have to beat another 10 to get his shot. Yet there is people getting title shots after 2-3 wins. It is amazing...


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

> The fuk are you talkin about where else does fitch have to go? hes not in a rush to end his career or change weight classes.The ww division is hardly deep, and aside from shields he shouldnt have too much trouble with the rest of the field...If he was as impatient or wanted the title shot so badly do you really think he would stand pat and persist with his plodding technique? The guy is a "white american" who has a record that stands at 13-1-1 and barely any fans to show for it..I dont know where you are gettin this "losing patience" nonsense from, sounds like transference on your part
> 
> And as for BJ's reaction u are reading way too much into it, hes an emotionally guy who had visions of gsp's fight in that last rd.Everything said should've been taken with levity


Well he's basically No.1 Contender and this draw leaves him in limbo, so I said well done to him for saying he'll continue do whatever it takes, because a lot of people in his situation may be getting impatient by now. And he was visibly agitated about the result. Fuk you talkin about?


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

The writer of the article has such pessimistic views. He makes some good points, though when I read this article, it sounds like it's written on a thread by an average member from a forum rather than a blogger. Not that it's a bad article.

I wonder if this will encourage Fitch to be more aggressive and to take risks more often in the octagon. The judges dealt him a bad hand, I'd be a little more hesitant to want to go the distance if that happened to me.


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> The saddest thing is. The guy had 8 wins in a row in the UFC 16 wins in a row all together to FINALLY get a title shot. Now he has 5 wins in a row and 1 draw and he still has no idea when he is going to get his shot. He can go on to beat 10 guys in a row and then lose 1 fight and he would have to beat another 10 to get his shot. Yet there is people getting title shots after 2-3 wins. It is amazing...


Dana isn't a fan of Fitch. The UFC picks international judges. Fitch is known for grinding out fights to decisions(leaving it in the hand of the judges where you can get screwed) what does that say? Sounds like the results of the fight were swayed to keep Fitch out of title contention. Obv there is no proof of this, but it's a pretty stable theory. Majority draw, really? The scoring system is flawed, I believe draws should only occur if all 3 judges scored it a draw, or if the ref deducted a point and caused it to be a draw.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> First of all. IT IS NOTHING LIKE THOSE 2 SCENARIOS YOU BROUGHT UP. BJ wrestling Fitch isnt even remotely similar to Jose Aldo wrestling Brock or a Midget wrestling a sumo wrestler. I cannot even believe that you just said that. If you think BJ is that far behind Fitch in the wrestling department then you are crazy. BJ Penn wrestling Fitch and wrestling BROCK LESNAR is such a crazy difference it isnt even fun to make fun of you. BJ took Fitch down twice if you dont remember?? How do you think Aldo would against Brock?? Brock would pick him up WWE style and throw him over the octagon. Then climb on top of the octagon and give him a frog splash through Joe Rogans announcer table.
> 
> Second of all. It has EVERYTHING to do with cardio. If BJ had the Cardio Fitch has then that third round would have been completely different even though BJ was smaller. Also i wanna point out that Fitch wasnt that much bigger then BJ. Fitch was about 175-177 pounds come fight time and it showed. BJ looked thicker then Fitch did except Fitch is a bit taller so obviously he has more weight. People are acting like Fitch came in at regular fitch size which isnt true at all. He was visibly skinnier because of his Vegan diet. So Fitch didnt enjoy the size advantage he usually does.
> 
> Also yeah ofcourse the smaller guy spends more energy if the skill level is equal. But usually the smaller guy tends to have better Cardio to make up for it. Perfect example is Frankie Edgar. He is one of the smallest guys in that division and yet he wrestles 5 rounds with the biggest and best of them no problem. If BJ had better cardio there is a good chance he would have gotten a decision victory. Sadly he has never been one to have impressive cardio.



Frankie Edgar doesn't wrestle against the fence where ppl can smother him and wear him down.

He stays in the center of the octagon and uses his speed, timing and technique to take people down. He doesn't waste tons of energy trying to muscle around ppl who are bigger than him for rounds and rounds.

What BJ did is nothing like what Edgar does.

10 pounds can make a huge difference. So can Fitch's height. If you weigh 165 and you're pressing forwards against someone who weighs 175 you have to press forwards with at most 10 pounds more pressure just to maintain your position against them.

They weigh more than you, so all they have to do is stand there. Of course, you'll get worn down before they do.



Kreed said:


> And as for BJ's reaction u are reading way too much into it, hes an emotionally guy who had visions of gsp's fight in that last rd.Everything said should've been taken with levity I dont know what other tactic you were hoping for tbh..Like I already stated he doesnt have the miles to float like a butterfly & sting like a bee..He wasnt goin to ever knockout fitch because he could never get his feet firmly planted to get enough behind his jabs (out of fear of TD)
> 
> Some fighters are just bad matchups and penn's happen to be wrestlers (in their prime)



Did you see GSP vs Kos? You think GSP gave up on the idea of striking because he wouldn't be able to "plant his feet"?

:thumb02:

Running around the ring consumes far less energy than wrestling with someone bigger & heavier and being smothered. 

BJ didn't take it to the ground against Edgar.

And, he refused to strike with Fitch.

Considering he managed to finish Diego AND Hughes with the right hand striking, he should have at least tried to stand with Fitch a little. Maybe, in the second round he could have stood with him, and that could have given him a chance to rest and recover a little...


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## putmeonhold (Jul 10, 2006)

Once again the judging was spot on. The fight was clearly a draw --> BJ takes R1 + R2 10-9, R3 goes to Fitch 10-8. Excellent judging as usual.


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## RudeBoySes (Aug 9, 2010)

putmeonhold said:


> Once again the judging was spot on. The fight was clearly a draw --> BJ takes R1 + R2 10-9, R3 goes to Fitch 10-8. Excellent judging as usual.


BJ said he thought he should've lost and that the judges (God) let him slide. Im not a martial arts expert, but judging from what i saw and what BJ said, Fitch should have won.

With that said, Fitch showed class when being interviewed. 

It looks like age is finally catching up with BJ. If he does not get the quick KO, and it carries into the late rounds, he's done.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

BJ said in the interivew (the one in this thread) that after having time to think about it, he had two good first rounds and thought the draw was the right call.

After losing 5 mins straight and being talked to 30 seconds after, obviosuly his mindset was thinking he had lost, but after thinking of the previous 2 rounds, he doesn't disagree with the call.


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## RudeBoySes (Aug 9, 2010)

M.C said:


> BJ said in the interivew (the one in this thread) that after having time to think about it, he had two good first rounds and thought the draw was the right call.
> 
> After losing 5 mins straight and being talked to 30 seconds after, obviosuly his mindset was thinking he had lost, but after thinking of the previous 2 rounds, he doesn't disagree with the call.


of course he would change his tune, after having time to rethink about the consequences of his reaction.

his first/initial reaction is the most honest.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Except he was just beat down for 5 minutes and that was the only thing on his mind when he answered the quesiton, after having time to think about it, he did win rounds 1 and 2, many think he did, and he does after looking back on the rounds, instead of only having that last round in his mind.


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## RudeBoySes (Aug 9, 2010)

M.C said:


> Except he was just beat down for 5 minutes and that was the only thing on his mind when he answered the quesiton, after having time to think about it, he did win rounds 1 and 2, many think he did, and he does after looking back on the rounds, instead of only having that last round in his mind.


you have to admit.. usually the initial response is the most honest?

as for who won which round.. it's hard to tell.. i can't tell.. but i did see Fitch be the more active.. and it looked like Fitch out-worked Penn for the majority of the fight. As for the technical stuff, counter, attempts, etc.. im not even going to pretend..


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

If you just got done lying on your back taking shots for 5 minutes straight, get up right after and be interviewed about who you think won, your initial response is "I got my butt kicked". First response does not mean the right response, it's how he felt 30 seconds after being mauled for 5 rounds, who wouldn't feel that?

After having some time to get out of the mindset of the last round that he got beaten up, he was able to logically and reasonably look back at each round, and saw he won rounds 1 and 2, and now agrees with the draw.

You're mixing up honesty with how he felt after being beat up for 5 minutes straight.


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## RudeBoySes (Aug 9, 2010)

M.C said:


> If you just got done lying on your back taking shots for 5 minutes straight, get up right after and be interviewed about who you think won, your initial response is "I got my butt kicked". First response does not mean the right response, it's how he felt 30 seconds after being mauled for 5 rounds, who wouldn't feel that?
> 
> After having some time to get out of the mindset of the last round that he got beaten up, he was able to logically and reasonably look back at each round, and saw he won rounds 1 and 2, and now agrees with the draw.
> 
> You're mixing up honesty with how he felt after being beat up for 5 minutes straight.


i would agree if it was a new-comer.. but BJ is a veteran of the sport.. i think he knows when he won.

with that aside.. do you think BJ won or do you agree with the decision?


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## SonOfZion (Feb 14, 2011)

yep, if you control somebody against the cage and outstrike them by a wide margin, landing more power shots in the process for 3 min but you then get taken down and back mounted for 45 seconds only to reverse and finish strong on top for the last 2min.


you lose. apparently back mount is the be all, end all points grabbing move and if you have your arms anywhere near the opponents neck (which you should, considering its a damn back mount and theres nowhere else to really put your arms but seatbelt or RNC position) then thats considered "close to finishing it" even if you werent close at all.


so, in hindsight i will remember if somebody gets backmount in the future, the round is pretty much over.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

RudeBoySes said:


> i would agree if it was a new-comer.. but BJ is a veteran of the sport.. i think he knows when he won.
> 
> with that aside.. do you think BJ won or do you agree with the decision?


New comer or not, if you get beat up for 5 minutes straight at the end, you are gassed, tired, can't get up fast, where as your opponent gets up, puts his arms in the air and runs around like he won, you're going to feel you lost until you can clear your head and think back to the previous rounds.

I do agree with the decison.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Take a look at the new thread I posted up with BJ's post fight interview with Ariel. He equate his reaction to that of Rampage vs Lyoto which is clearly understandable. I thought Fitch might have won the split as well. 

That fight was for BJ to take. He was tired by the third. 

One way to look at it. BJ knew 100% that Fitch would take him down and grind him out. So he flipped the script and said I'm going to take this head on and do the same thing to you even though I'm smaller. Like I said BJ knew he couldn't outmuscle him, outgrind em, but he could outsmart em. Swear I thought he was going to get the RNC. That's Dave Camarillo at work there. 

Guess working with Matt Hughes paid off dividends.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Props to BJ for taking this fight. Whether you like or dislike him, he'll take on all comers in any weight division. I think the only two fights he wouldn't take are Brock Lesnar and Anderson Silva.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

oldfan said:


> All said, ... it was the most exciting Fitch Fight I can think of but, it left me feeling just like BJ looks here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is it just me or is this gif like the funniest gif I have seen in a while. I laughed so hard when fitchs crew were mad and one of bjs guy is waving his arms around running behind them. 

Anyways BJ fought an amazing fight he has nothing to be ashamed of he almost beat one of the best welterweight fighters and to some people he did but a draw is a draw. We know dana hates those.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

BJ should have lost, I watched the fight again and I cant find any reason to call the fight a draw.

Bad judging has always been a issue but IMO it was glaring in this fight. 

You can score the first and second rounds 10-10 but you cant give either round to BJ. 

Plain and simple BJ did get a gift and Fitch should have won that fight. 


This is the posterchild for why we either need to have five round fights or change the judging criteria. The ten point must system is not a effective system for three round fights.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Jesus, look at the freaking size difference in that GIF. Fitch looks like he's multiple weight classes above Penn. Well, in reality, Penn is a small LW and could easily fight at 145 so I suppose that is somewhat true, but man, Penn is such a warrior.


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