# Lesnar's BJJ coach discusses Mir/Nogueira, and Brock's developments



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/lesnars-jiu-jitsu-trainer-on-his-ground-skills-15527



> Two-time absolute world jiu-jitsu champion Rodrigo “Comprido” Medeiros began training with Brock Lesnar roughly five months ago.
> 
> “Besides being very strong, he learns very fast,” the Brazilian, who now lives in Chicago, said after his first session with Lesnar.
> 
> ...



Sounds like Lesnar's BJJ is coming along nicely. I had to laugh at the comment that a fight with Fedor would be easier than one with Nogueira though. :laugh:


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

in his last fight, his control looked okay....aside from him recklessly trying to mount and almost getting put on his back.....

i'm not really surprised he's improving fast...when you get private lessons from a guy like that your going to get better really really fast...

thats basically how bj got so good...he trained like an animal for 3 years w/ royce gracie (i think it was him) as his private teacher....

i'm really curious to see how brock is off his back


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## lpbigd4444 (Oct 1, 2008)

Maybe he feels stylistically it would be easier. Styles make fights so some people are just plain good against certain guys. Maybe he just feels that is the case with Lesnar and Fedor. Fedor would struggle against a big guy with sub defense I think which is why I think Lesnar will take him with another 1.5 to 2 years of training and fighting.


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## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

I also lol'd at the Fedor comment, but it seems like Brock is progressing nicely. Nice find.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> in his last fight, his control looked okay....aside from him recklessly trying to mount and almost getting put on his back.....
> 
> i'm not really surprised he's improving fast...when you get private lessons from a guy like that your going to get better really really fast...
> 
> ...


It was actually Ralph Gracie, but yeah, dedication will always bring strong results.



lpbigd4444 said:


> Maybe he feels stylistically it would be easier. Styles make fights so some people are just plain good against certain guys. Maybe he just feels that is the case with Lesnar and Fedor. Fedor would struggle against a big guy with sub defense I think which is why I think Lesnar will take him with another 1.5 to 2 years of training and fighting.


He said he'd "dominate" the fight standing and on the ground though. That's simply absurd, Fedor has answered a lot of questions, but there are still a lot of questions left about Brock. For example, how does he react to pain? Does he break or does he come back stronger? How is his chin? There are still grey areas in his game, so I think suggesting he'd "dominate" the greatest MMA HW ever is a stretch.


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## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

> Against Fedor, I believe it would be easier for Brock because he would dominate both on the ground and standing up.


This Compridadiodos fellow really needs to think before he speaks. Fedor is maybe the best HW striker in MMA right now, seriously.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

lpbigd4444 said:


> Maybe he feels stylistically it would be easier. Styles make fights so some people are just plain good against certain guys. Maybe he just feels that is the case with Lesnar and Fedor. Fedor would struggle against a big guy with sub defense I think which is why I think Lesnar will take him with another 1.5 to 2 years of training and fighting.


Not a chance in hell, imo. Fedor can take some mean punches (not to mention getting his spine shattered :\) and he can deal them back. I sware I saw randy wobble Brock at least once in that fight, and if Randy can do it Fedor can put him on his ass and make him cry like a school girl.



> thats basically how bj got so good...he trained like an animal for 3 years w/ royce gracie (i think it was him) as his private teacher....


thats how I got my brown belt so fast. Dedication and 1on1s. Scary to think brock is making that kind of progress too


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> thats how I got my brown belt so fast. Dedication and 1on1s. Scary to think brock is making that kind of progress too


Damn, you're a brown belt? Under who? How long did it take you to get?


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

randy didn't even come close to wobbling brock...

and fedor's spine was just fight....he went limp like your supposed to...it didn't even dmg him

he's a man....he's got bones and blood...he is 100% beatable


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

took me about a year and a half. Trained under my brother in law who got his black belt from Carlson Gracie. His dad sent him to train when he was like 16 to get him out of all the bullshit he was into. It's been called into questino many times by a lot of people on these forums, I don't give a shit if you don't believe me. Take the chance to Roll with me if you don't and I'm confident i can prove to you that I AM. I practiced srictly jiujitsu for a year and a half before starting for MMA. I trained damn near every da and at the very least 3 days a week (winter in ohio is a bitch to drive in) for 4-5 hours a day. Like I said, dedication and interest are key. I love BJJ an dthats why I practiced so much, add to the fact that (nto trying to gloat) I'm a pretty quick learner and am very easy to teach and I think I made good progress.




> randy didn't even come close to wobbling brock...
> 
> and fedor's spine was just fight....he went limp like your supposed to...it didn't even dmg him
> 
> he's a man....he's got bones and blood...he is 100% beatable


Im not syaing he's unbeatable, I just don't think lesnar has the Tools to do it.


EDIT: also I guess it wasnt so much a "wobble" as it was a wake up call/stun. it was like midway through the first round Randy came off teh cage and straight righted lesnar in the nose. Brock looked kind of stunned (in teh sense of baffled) and just stood there kind of staring like "hol shit i just got hit in the face 0.o"


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## cormacraig (Oct 27, 2008)

His PR is acting really smart as far as trying to promote Brock's image as a serious, hard-working fighter (this is not to say they're lying or anything). Maybe it'll calm down some Brock-hate-bandwagoners, eventually.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> took me about a year and a half. Trained under my brother in law who got his black belt from Carlson Gracie. His dad sent him to train when he was like 16 to get him out of all the bullshit he was into. It's been called into questino many times by a lot of people on these forums, I don't give a shit if you don't believe me. Take the chance to Roll with me if you don't and I'm confident i can prove to you that I AM. I practiced srictly jiujitsu for a year and a half before starting for MMA. I trained damn near every da and at the very least 3 days a week (winter in ohio is a bitch to drive in) for 4-5 hours a day. Like I said, dedication and interest are key. I love BJJ an dthats why I practiced so much, add to the fact that (nto trying to gloat) I'm a pretty quick learner and am very easy to teach and I think I made good progress.
> "


Brother's name? I find it very hard to believe you're a brown belt after 1.5 years. In fact, that's better than Bj Penn. If you're a legit brown belt after 1.5 years I believe that's some sort of Bjj record


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## MOJSTER (Oct 29, 2008)

brock will submit nogueira----lol-lol
if this happens i stop training ,watching martial arts.stop


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

Very good interview. I really wish he hadn't mentioned the Fedor thing. I'm relatively certain that he could have said... "Brock cured cancer yesterday, oh and he could beat Fedor..." and the latter of the two would be the one remembered, esspecially around here, but I don't see that fight happening any time soon anyway.

Either way, I'm excited to see what Brock can do against Nog or Mir... if his camp isn't bluffing he should walk right through either one, but I don't see it being easy either way... esspecially with Nog... that's the one I think is really hard to call.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

BrianRClover said:


> Very good interview. I really wish he hadn't mentioned the Fedor thing. I'm relatively certain that he could have said... "*Brock cured cancer yesterday, oh and he could beat Fedor*..." and the latter of the two would be the one remembered, esspecially around here, but I don't see that fight happening any time soon anyway.
> 
> Either way, I'm excited to see what Brock can do against Nog or Mir... if his camp isn't bluffing he should walk right through either one, but I don't see it being easy either way... esspecially with Nog... that's the one I think is really hard to call.


do you honestly believe this? i'm actually curious if people think this way


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

GJJ said:


> im not doubting your belt color just giving you insite why you catch greif all the time. 1 1/2 to brown is phenominal, and it is by your brother. that will raise suspicion to anyone who studies.it took bj like 2-3 years to brown. you just stole his nickname dude. you are the new prodigy. hell the gracies dont even give there brothers browns in that amount of time.


our university bjj coach told us all that if we give him 5000 dollars he will honestly give us a blackbelt that day....belt colour means nothing


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## ArrowHead (Dec 18, 2008)

Seems like bad news for the HW divison. If only he had this training before he fought Mir, lol. I still cringe during that fight when Frank scoots in and calmly gets in position for the knee bar and Brock has no clue what's going on until it's too late. /sigh


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

Aaronyman said:


> do you honestly believe this? i'm actually curious if people think this way


lol... no, that is a major exageration and me being more of a smartass than I need to be no doubt.

But, it is very true... if you entertain the idea of just about anyone, esspecially Brock beating Fedor be ready for the negative Rep to flow.

Just look at my post about Jackson, simply saying I don't like him... and that *I* believe he is wrong got all most nothing but disdane thrown at me. There are a few fighters that seem to be off limits to critique... Nog, Fedor, Quinton, Wandy, and a few others that I can't think of right now. 

But hey, people are entitled to their opinion, even if some forget that I believe that is what makes message boards like this.

Edit: I meant to add, that I'm a Brock fan, but I do not think he could be Fedor right now... not even close.


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

Aaronyman said:


> our university bjj coach told us all that if we give him 5000 dollars he will honestly give us a blackbelt that day....belt colour means nothing


Agreed, I believe this is true of any martial arts these days


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## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

I'm not sure how even spending 5 months with a world champion giving 1 on 1 instruction can give him enough sub defense against the likes of Nog, Mir, or Fedor. That just sounds like a bunch of BS to me, especially since its coming from his own camp. I'll agree that when Lesnar does have enough BJJ training to know what is happening and how to counter it, he will be one scary bastard. Even the mighty Fedor will have his hands full if Lesnar ever becomes a complete fighter.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> It was actually Ralph Gracie, but yeah, dedication will always bring strong results.
> 
> 
> 
> He said he'd "dominate" the fight standing and on the ground though. That's simply absurd, Fedor has answered a lot of questions, but there are still a lot of questions left about Brock. For example, how does he react to pain? Does he break or does he come back stronger? How is his chin? There are still grey areas in his game, so I think suggesting he'd "dominate" the greatest MMA HW ever is a stretch.


well, I think the question was somewhat answered. He's not going to shy away from punches, if you pay attention in the scrambles randy cought brock with a few overhands to the side of the head. The reason they are hard to notice is brock hardly reacted to them. And when he got cut open he got angrier, reminded me of zoolander, "nobody makes me bleed my own blood"


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

BrianRClover said:


> Agreed, I believe this is true of any martial arts these days


i always thought bjj did really well at not letting blackbelts go rampant but it's becoming more and more w/ the growth of mma....

i mean, look at david kaplan...how the hell is he a bjj blackbelt? junie browning passed his guard pretty easily and scored an armbar w/o much trouble at all...i guess he could have forgotten some if he took it a long time ago....but damn, that's just sad....

from what frank mir said, his instructor tossed him his bb right after he sub'd tim sylvia....i know being the HW champ is awesome, but subbing a guy w/ no bjj shouldn't be your 'blackbelt test'

meh...still not as bad as tae kwon do....shit there are probably more 3rd or 4th degree tkd bb's in southern ontario than their are 3rd or 4th degree bjj bb's worldwide


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## e-thug (Jan 18, 2007)

A great find and yeah I am one of the few on this site who thinks that Lesnar will give Nog troubles and...(gulp) may finish Nog.

By the time Lesnar Vs Nog gets booked (EARLIEST possibly March) how much do ya think Lesnar will have learned?


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

The Fedor comment seriously damages this guys assessment of Brock imo.


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## Brainshank (Nov 25, 2008)

rabakill said:


> well, I think the question was somewhat answered. He's not going to shy away from punches, if you pay attention in the scrambles randy cought brock with a few overhands to the side of the head. The reason they are hard to notice is brock hardly reacted to them. And when he got cut open he got angrier, reminded me of *zoolander, "nobody makes me bleed my own blood*"


Great quote - but it's from Dodgeball, not Zoolander.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> i always thought bjj did really well at not letting blackbelts go rampant but it's becoming more and more w/ the growth of mma....
> 
> i mean, look at david kaplan...how the hell is he a bjj blackbelt? junie browning passed his guard pretty easily and scored an armbar w/o much trouble at all...i guess he could have forgotten some if he took it a long time ago....but damn, that's just sad....
> 
> ...


It amazes me how many black belts of varying degrees I have seen in taekwondo. It also amazes me how many of them are overweight women. I like to think that I defy this stereotype, although I have a long way to go before I get my black belt. (I'm an intermediate green belt). We test every 6 months and our tests are 5- and 6-hour marathons because we are expected to know everything we've learned from white belt, never know exactly what we'll be tested on, perform what seem like countless techniques, drills and forms (kata) from memory, spar in Olympic rules, point, and self defense, and do multiple breaks. It bothers me that taekwondo, being so popular, has given rise to such a high amount of schools that seem to literally allow people to buy their belt and not earn it. 

Any art is going to have schools that don't have as strict requirements for moving up in rank as they should.


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## stitch1z (Dec 9, 2007)

The Fedor comment ruins any credibility for me.

Fedor gives ANYONE more problems than Nog would. He's more intense, explosive, and hurts people a lot more.

He's human and he's beatable (well, in theory, lol), but Brock couldn't do anything against him without a couple more years of training IMO.

No matter where a fight went with Fedor, Brock would be in trouble. Fedor is dangerous off his back, dangerous standing up, and deadly in top position.

Brock has a good chance against Nog. A younger, faster Nogueira had trouble with Bob Sapp laying on top of him who has zero ground skill. But I'm pulling for Nog.

That's not to say Lesnar's the best IMO. I personally believe that Tim Sylvia has all the tools to beat Lesnar: A reach advantage and good TDD.


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

The thing with Brock is he always has coaches saying he is amazing athlete and he learns super quick. I know I will catch some shit for this but when he moved to pro wrestling I think his trainer was Al Snow and Al said he was great and learned quick. The Vikings said virtually the same thing. He was gifted athletically(sp?) and learned very fast. Its not impossible to train one on one with someone and learn quickly. Look at his progress in what a year now since coming to the UFC. 

Also anyone saying the guy lost cred. for the Fedor comment are well stupid. His cred. comes from who he trained with, learned from. Finally, the day Fedor loses to someone is going to be great in a twisted way-it will happen.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

I personally hope that Lesnar can become a true champion by defending his belt at least once, but I don't think it's gonna happen if NOG beats Mir. Lesnar defeated Couture and now his coach mentions Fedor as one of the next contenders in a line for Lesnar. WTF?



> he would dominate both on the ground and standing up


What is he talking about? Sounds like Emelianenko has no chances against Brock at all. I say BS.


> Demian is doing an amazing job. I believe soon he will fight for the title.


I believe so.

So basically Brock Lesnar is doing what every MMA fan expects him to do which is BJJ training. If he is successful with that, then Brock will become a true force and threat for everybody in UFC.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

nothing there is hard to believe other than him saying a fight against fedor would be a dominant performance for brock. Tho I do find him a better matchup stylistically for Lesnar than Nog. Maybe he's thinking Brock will have a few years before that fight happens. By then he very well could dominate Fedor for all we know. If his skillset matched his physique by then I wouldn't doubt it myself.

Lesnar is known for his work ethic and is being given all the tools to succeed by some of the best.

Aaronyman it would be a HUGE accomplishment for Lesnar to be good off his back. Wrestlers have a natural fear of being on their backs.


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## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> i always thought bjj did really well at not letting blackbelts go rampant but it's becoming more and more w/ the growth of mma....
> 
> i mean, look at david kaplan...how the hell is he a bjj blackbelt? junie browning passed his guard pretty easily and scored an armbar w/o much trouble at all...i guess he could have forgotten some if he took it a long time ago....but damn, that's just sad....
> 
> ...


That's what I love about judo. You can be as talented as hell but there's no way you will get your black belt without 6 years of training. You get to pass belt test once a year. Even if you aren't talented, after 6 years you will have decent skills.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Fedor sold his soul to the devil for unparalled Mixed Martial Arts skills. Shortly after, Fedor put the Devil in an armbar and forced the Devil to give him his soul back. The Devil appreciated the irony and they now go fishing on the first Thursday of every month.

I see Lesnar giving Fedor no problem standing up and only minor problems on the ground. Fedor would rock him, then submit him in the first round


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> Fedor sold his soul to the devil for unparalled Mixed Martial Arts skills. Shortly after, Fedor put the Devil in an armbar and forced the Devil to give him his soul back. The Devil appreciated the irony and they now go fishing on the first Thursday of every month.


That's a good one


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## +Shogun+ (Aug 3, 2007)

e-thug said:


> A great find and yeah I am one of the few on this site who thinks that Lesnar will give Nog troubles and...(gulp) may finish Nog.
> 
> By the time Lesnar Vs Nog gets booked (EARLIEST possibly March) how much do ya think Lesnar will have learned?


I like how everyone is looking past Mir.


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## imrik32 (Dec 31, 2006)

The_Senator said:


> I personally hope that Lesnar can become a true champion by defending his belt at least once, but I don't think it's gonna happen if NOG beats Mir. Lesnar defeated Couture and now his coach mentions Fedor as one of the next contenders in a line for Lesnar. WTF?


Fedor doesn't line up to fight the likes of Brock Lesnar or anybody for that matter. They line up to fight him.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> our university bjj coach told us all that if we give him 5000 dollars he will honestly give us a blackbelt that day....belt colour means nothing


Where do you go to university Aaron? I wish we had a BJJ instructor/team at Laurier.



rabakill said:


> well, I think the question was somewhat answered. He's not going to shy away from punches, if you pay attention in the scrambles randy cought brock with a few overhands to the side of the head. The reason they are hard to notice is brock hardly reacted to them. And when he got cut open he got angrier, reminded me of zoolander, "nobody makes me bleed my own blood"


He also looked really bothered by the blood running in his eye, you can't sweat the small stuff against someone like Fedor who can finish a fight at any given minute.



Aaronyman said:


> i always thought bjj did really well at not letting blackbelts go rampant but it's becoming more and more w/ the growth of mma....
> 
> *i mean, look at david kaplan...how the hell is he a bjj blackbelt?* junie browning passed his guard pretty easily and scored an armbar w/o much trouble at all...i guess he could have forgotten some if he took it a long time ago....but damn, that's just sad....


Because he had Ernesto Hoost as his BJJ coach. He certainly didn't learn the ground game from a Gracie, and he definitely didn't learn his stand-up from Hoost.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

imrik32 said:


> Fedor doesn't line up to fight the likes of Brock Lesnar or anybody for that matter. They line up to fight him.


Exactly my point.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> our university bjj coach told us all that if we give him 5000 dollars he will honestly give us a blackbelt that day....belt colour means nothing


I find this very hard to believe... what's the name of your Bjj coach? And belt color does mean something, idk what the **** you're talking about, it matters more who you are training under though. Some schools give out belts easily now a days, but not all. And NO schools give out easy black belts, come on, that's a disgrace to Bjj, which is a very proud martial arts.


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## Guy (Feb 17, 2008)

The Fedor comment ruined the credibility. That's basically like saying "Oh I think going to Mars is easier than going to Hong Kong."

Brock will be a great fighter in a year or two, but I highly HIGHLY doubt even then he could pose a serious threat to Fedor.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> He also looked really bothered by the blood running in his eye, you can't sweat the small stuff against someone like Fedor who can finish a fight at any given minute.


that's your interpretation, he even said in an interview that he was pissed he was bleeding. It wasn't because the blood bothered him but that he was bleeding before randy, it was more of a competitive thing.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

MOJSTER said:


> brock will submit nogueira----lol-lol
> if this happens i stop training ,watching martial arts.stop


Sadly, I'd do the same.


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## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

Obviously it's easier to get a black belt in Canada than it is in the U.S. where so many proud brazilian instructors live. Even hearing that someone would SELL a black belt is shocking to me, and I would question that instructor even having a black belt to begin with. I'm just a white belt but I train under a brazilian 2nd degree black belt under Carlson Gracie. He would probably want to scream if he heard the blasphemy that is being spread on this thread.


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## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

TeamNogpwns said:


> Obviously it's easier to get a black belt in Canada than it is in the U.S. where so many proud brazilian instructors live. Even hearing that someone would SELL a black belt is shocking to me, and I would question that instructor even having a black belt to begin with. I'm just a white belt but I train under a brazilian 2nd degree black belt under Carlson Gracie. He would probably want to scream if he heard the blasphemy that is being spread on this thread.


I generally believe that bjj belt system is flawed because it gives too much freedom for a trainer. He might choose to give you the next belt at any moment, because there is no official test to get a belt. That kind of practice easily leads to creation of bjj Mcdojo's, cos the guy that runs it might be the guy who gave 5000 to the aforementioned professor.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> I find this very hard to believe... what's the name of your Bjj coach? And belt color does mean something, idk what the **** you're talking about, it matters more who you are training under though. Some schools give out belts easily now a days, but not all. And NO schools give out easy black belts, come on, that's a disgrace to Bjj, which is a very proud martial arts.




His name is vivek nath

Dude, wake up from your bjj fantasy world...have you seen david kaplan? that is your prestious bjj blackbelt, who got sub'd very quickly by a purple belt....tell me he didn't get handed his bb by someone he knows....nonetheless, he IS a blackbelt...

How do you not know wtf i'm talking about....i just told you what happened. why would I lie to you?



> Where do you go to university Aaron? I wish we had a BJJ instructor/team at Laurier.


I go to Western. Yah, it's pretty cool having it there if you want to use it.


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## e-thug (Jan 18, 2007)

+Shogun+ said:


> I like how everyone is looking past Mir.


Hey, in my opinion Mir has a 10% chance, just speculating that my 90% is goin to prevail and we are goin to get Nog/Lesnar.

What exactly is Mir goin to do? Submit him?:confused05: or use his "cardio" to wear Nog down?:confused05: seriously give me a reason to believe Mir will win.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

rabakill said:


> that's your interpretation, he even said in an interview that he was pissed he was bleeding. It wasn't because the blood bothered him but that he was bleeding before randy, it was more of a competitive thing.


He was bleeding before Randy? What does that even mean? Randy caught him with a punch and he started to bleed, about twice he touched his eye to wipe away blood. Either way, getting pissed off is more likely to lead to mistakes, so he should learn to control his temper better, especially against guys dangerous on the ground.



TeamNogpwns said:


> *Obviously it's easier to get a black belt in Canada than it is in the U.S. where so many proud brazilian instructors live*. Even hearing that someone would SELL a black belt is shocking to me, and I would question that instructor even having a black belt to begin with. I'm just a white belt but I train under a brazilian 2nd degree black belt under Carlson Gracie. He would probably want to scream if he heard the blasphemy that is being spread on this thread.


What are you saying? It's actually quite hard to get a legitimate black belt up here, there are probably less than 10 Gracie BJJ black belts in Canada.



Aaronyman said:


> I go to Western. Yah, it's pretty cool having it there if you want to use it.


Damn, I wish I'd known before going to Laurier lol.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> His name is vivek nath
> 
> Dude, wake up from your bjj fantasy world...have you seen david kaplan? that is your prestious bjj blackbelt, who got sub'd very quickly by a purple belt....tell me he didn't get handed his bb by someone he knows....nonetheless, he IS a blackbelt...
> 
> How do you not know wtf i'm talking about....i just told you what happened. why would I lie to you?





> About the Instructor:
> 
> Vivek Nath has been the instructor for Western Jiu-jitsu Beginners’ Program since 1998. He holds the rank of Sankyu (3rd kyu, Green Belt) in Kano Jiu-jitsu (Judo) and is a former coloured belt instructor under Judo Ontario. He also has studied Kenpo Karate and Shinki Ryu Kenpo Jiu-jitsu. He is currently training in Brazilian Jiu-jitsu.


That's why I asked. Doesn't look like he's a Bjj blackbelt...


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## +Shogun+ (Aug 3, 2007)

e-thug said:


> Hey, in my opinion Mir has a 10% chance, just speculating that my 90% is goin to prevail and we are goin to get Nog/Lesnar.
> 
> What exactly is Mir goin to do? Submit him?:confused05: or use his "cardio" to wear Nog down?:confused05: seriously give me a reason to believe Mir will win.


I can feel the neg reps flowing to me already *sigh*, here we go.

I think Mir has better BJJ, and his striking is severely underrated. His KO of Wes Sims was one of the best combinations/KOs ever. Do I think he's going to beat Nog? Ehh... no, but I think his chances are more like 40%, rather than the 10% you and everyone else is giving him.

*Edit* Also, he looks like he's in shape for the first time since his bike accident. He seems really motivated. And the likely win would be by decision.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

+Shogun+ said:


> I can feel the neg reps flowing to me already *sigh*, here we go.
> 
> I think Mir has better BJJ, and his striking is severely underrated. *His KO of Wes Sims was one of the best combinations/KOs ever*. Do I think he's going to beat Nog? Ehh... no, but I think his chances are more like 40%, rather than the 10% you and everyone else is giving him.
> 
> *Edit* Also, he looks like he's in shape for the first time since his bike accident. He seems really motivated. And the likely win would be by decision.


I couldn't agree less.

But I do think that every fight is 50/50.


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## e-thug (Jan 18, 2007)

+Shogun+ said:


> I can feel the neg reps flowing to me already *sigh*, here we go.
> 
> I think Mir has better BJJ, and his striking is severely underrated. His KO of Wes Sims was one of the best combinations/KOs ever. Do I think he's going to beat Nog? Ehh... no, but I think his chances are more like 40%, rather than the 10% you and everyone else is giving him.
> 
> *Edit* Also, he looks like he's in shape for the first time since his bike accident. He seems really motivated. And the likely win would be by decision.


Meh, wouldnt neg rep ya for it, however If you think that Mir can KO/TKO a guy that has received punches from the top HW in the world then I will call you insane. 

There just isnt anything that Mir does better than Nog, I respect that Mir has that punchers chance, but that punchers chance is almost nullified when ya step in with Big Nog.


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## +Shogun+ (Aug 3, 2007)

e-thug said:


> Meh, wouldnt neg rep ya for it, however If you think that Mir can KO/TKO a guy that has received punches from the top HW in the world then I will call you insane.
> 
> There just isnt anything that Mir does better than Nog, I respect that Mir has that punchers chance, but that punchers chance is almost nullified when ya step in with Big Nog.


I didn't mean you in particular. And is it probable that Mir will KO Nog? No, not at all. Is it possible? Yeah. Nobody is Un-KOable (although Nog is the closest person to being Un-KOable that I've seen in MMA). TKO is possible, most recently Heath Herring could have done it had he jumped on Nog after that kick. Mir does have a shot to submit him (as I said, I think he has the better jitz), especially if he stuns him first with a big shot or a barrage of shots. 

If Mir gets his cardio to where it should be for a 5 round title fight, I definitely think he has a good chance of outworking Nog for a decision, if it goes to the scorecards. Look at Nogs fight with Ricco (who got robbed btw) and Mir is pretty similar to Ricco, except he's better standing and has better cardio imo. Nog also looked better back in his Pride days, to me anyway.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> That's why I asked. Doesn't look like he's a Bjj blackbelt...


never said he was, i'm just telling you what he told us

and you never addressed my point about kaplan or any other bjj blackbelt that clearly isn't bb worthy


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> never said he was, i'm just telling you what he told us
> 
> and you never addressed my point about kaplan or any other bjj blackbelt that clearly isn't bb worthy


There are some bullshit black belts in Bjj, but I think a lot of them are also "jiu-jitsu" black belts, which is much different from Bjj. Name 10 "bullshit" brazilian jiu-jitsu black belts for me.

Also says Kaplan is a BLUE belt in Bjj:
http://www.ufc.com/DaveKaplan

And uh, you did say he's a bjj black belt



> our university *bjj* coach told us all that if we give him 5000 dollars he will honestly give us a blackbelt that day....belt colour means nothing


Someone under a black belt can't award a black belt...


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> There are some bullshit black belts in Bjj, but I think a lot of them are also "jiu-jitsu" black belts, which is much different from Bjj. Name 10 "bullshit" brazilian jiu-jitsu black belts for me.
> 
> Also says Kaplan is a BLUE belt in Bjj:
> http://www.ufc.com/DaveKaplan
> ...


once again, i'm just telling you what he told us....he came right out and told us that western culture is very belt colour driven and now you've got bb's popping out everywhere....i'm guessing he was implying he would get his instructor to give you a bb? i don't know..i can only tell you what he told us....and i did not say he was a bb...i knew he was a greenbelt and that's part of the reason i didn't sign up for the course

i also know that at some point, either goldie, rogan, someone said that kaplan was a blackbelt and i assumed they were right....apparently he's a bluebelt...my bad


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> once again, i'm just telling you what he told us....he came right out and told us that western culture is very belt colour driven and now you've got bb's popping out everywhere....i'm guessing he was implying he would get his instructor to give you a bb? i don't know..i can only tell you what he told us....and i did not say he was a bb...i knew he was a greenbelt and that's part of the reason i didn't sign up for the course
> 
> i also know that at some point, either goldie, rogan, someone said that kaplan was a blackbelt and i assumed they were right....apparently he's a bluebelt...my bad


No worries, I just don't like people downplaying a black belt in Bjj. A black belt in Bjj means to me that someone is EXTREMELY dedicated and deserves the utmost respect for their time and hard work. Seriously, a black belt in Bjj is a life time accomplishment; not something to be taken lightly.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

one bb i question is thiago alves frankly....

he went from purple belt at ufc 66 and now's he a bb, and he seemed to get a black belt over the next year, year and a half

http://mmafrenzy.com/2008/07/03/ufc-89-thiago-alves-vs-diego-sanchez/



> Alves has showcased excellent Muay Thai and holds a black belt in Brazilian Jiutjitsu


i guess he's been training w/ marcelo garcia alot, but it's still a very suspicious progression

oh and i'm not sure if you read my point about frank mir...how his training tossed him his blackbelt immediately after he beat tim sylvia...and had he not done it, he would be a blackbelt....that's not really a good test for determining someone's skills in bjj

aside from the odd suspicious thing, i do hold the belt integrity of a bjj belt way more than say a TKD belt or karate belt


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Western Culture is very rank driven and many people seem to forget that black belt does not mean mastery. A black belt, shodan (1st degree), is actually the only the _beginning_ of advanced learning of the martial art. Godan through Judan are you real masters of the craft. Shodans are relatively easy to acquire in some forms and do not denote a great practicioner. So when you guys see a BJJ black belt who doesn't seem up to standard, thats because he hasn't gotten past being a beginner of advance technique.


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## nissassagame (May 6, 2008)

Have to respect Brock for having the strong will to learn and improve. It shows he is dedicated to becoming the best. I do think a lot of people are overlooking Mir though. Although I myself pick Nog to beat Mir, anyone is beatable and a Mir win would NOT shock me. In any event, by the time Lesnar gets the winner, I do believe he will come out the victor and hopefully face Fedor.


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## TheGamefather (Sep 8, 2008)

Brock is quickly becoming unbeatable, its going to be crazy in couple/few years. I say he beats Fedor by the time that fight happens.


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## wolfbot (Oct 5, 2008)

My call exactly. In two years, Brock has a slight edge over Fedor. Fedor rarely fights and is probably very close to his peak performance already. Lesnar meanwhile is assimilating every aspect of martial arts in Matrix/Neo like fashion via some unknown ultra high bandwidth download. 

Whatever Lesnar loses in speed and explosiveness in that time will be more than compensated for by knowledge, and then finally experience.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Brock's growing as a fighter, but I think even two years wouldn't be enough for him to beat Fedor. While he has progressed since the Mir fight, I do think that these improvements are being exaggerated greatly by his camp/the UFC marketing machine.

He's got power, and he's a sponge which is great. But even in two year's time he'd probably only have had 6 more fights (which even then, you'd have to question if he'll win all of them with guys like Velasquez, Nogueira, Mir, and Carwin as possible opponents).

I'm not trying to poop all over Brock's parade, I just think we have to be realistic about his improvements. He hasn't faced a dangerous ground fighter since Mir, he hasn't faced a great striker, and we haven't seen him face a guy with wrestling skills almost his size. 

For as many slight adjustments we've seen in his game, there are still plenty of questionable areas that will only be answered in his upcoming bouts.


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## SchoolyV (Oct 2, 2010)

OMG! OMG! OMG!I was Googling around tonight and found this post from 2 years ago about me! I feel honoured to be mentioned in a thread about UFC fighters!! Sweet!

LOL @ Aaronyman! Aaron, there is a reason some people shouldn't be in university, obviously the use of sarcasm and humour goes right over some people's heads. That's what the public education system churns out nowadays. 

Aaron, of course is making a claim that is laughable at best because he appears to be incapable of discerning between literalism and hyperbole (exaggeration) and conveniently forgot, or wasn't smart enough to understand context. But when someone tries to slag me the I am going to step up.

Here's the context:

Every year, almost without fail, we get some know-it-all martial arts people, usually from Tae Kwon Do, Hap Ki Do, or something similar, who strut in and ask something like, "how quickly can I get my black belt?", or "how quickly can I test", or my favourite which someone asked recently, " I got my TKD black belt in 3 years, so why should I have to wait 10 years in your style?" ummm....I dunno, why don't you fly to Brazil and ask them. 
These people typically come out once every 2 weeks, spaz out during training, and then disappear. This is funny itself as none of us who train at the club are actually black belts and most sport white belts. 

So my stock answer has been the same for years: If all you want is a belt, then I'll go to my awesome Century catalogue, call them up, order a black belt, and give it to you for $5000 cash, small bills. In fact I think he has deliberately mislead you, I usually say $10 000 cash but perhaps I was considering the recent recession at that time. Of course, the belt won't be sanctioned by anyone, will mean really little except to your ego, and you can wear it out to the bars and when you go grocery shopping! Hopefully you'll go and tell your douchebag friends, and they'll come with $10 000 cash and order some belts to! When you are done, if you are really special, I can also order you a sacred pink gi that signifies grandmaster status, for $20 000, then you'll really be special!

The point I WAS and still do try to make was/is, of course, with my humour, that a belt means absolutely zero, nothing, nada, unless, of course, you actually put the the time, effort and commitment to actually learn it. You can't fake it, or just show up every two weeks and expect to be Rickson Gracie in 6 months. This is one of the key points of our club - that we don't dwell on belts and no one gives a crap if you walk in and strut around showing off your 5th degree deathmaster in Sick Sock Suck Jitsu. We just train. To have that twisted around is kind of laughable at best. 

I was kind of angry when I first read this post as this douchebag tried to talk smack and name names. Then I thought it was kind of funny and was hoping that people might think I was going to fight Brock Lesnar. We are one of the most transparent club around and go out of our way to tell people that earning belts is hard work and dedication, and we still have to earn ours. We make no claims and break no boards to impress you. We just train, make friends and have fun. 

Here's also what this ignoramus doesn't even know: We are a Judo club too. I was actually one rank higher belt in Judo and wear a green since I "demoted" myself for not actively learning/training for a while. In fact, my old 15 year old green belt is in shreds and hanging on by a thread - and I still wear it. To think that someone could think I could give out black belts is laughable at best. In fact tonight I was sporting a white belt. Yes, a sure sign of a belt crazy maniac!

I also first trained BJJ in 1994, when this poster was about 12 years old and on and off since then. I was around since the beginning. We are also a official BJJ club under an Association, and we teach the basics as most people who join up are beginners. We have had guys from clubs all over Ontario come out and train and many of our members go on to train at all the big clubs upon graduation. We must be doing something right as we are now the most popular club here. 

In fact the past 2 weeks there are have been a few whites stripes, blues, and purple belt from various associations that all come out to train, and learned something too. Wow, go figure. They must be wrong. 

The fact that Aaron wouldn't come and train with us because I only had a a green belt shows what kind of know-it-all he is. I guess the blue belts that came out and the literally hundreds of people that have passed through our club are all wrong. LOL Perhaps I should have put a black belt on, and called my style Killbreak Jitsu, and put a red Grandmaster belt on. Perhaps then Aaron would've drooled and allowed us to share in his wealth of Certified InterWeb Trained knowledge. 

I am willing to be that Aaron now likes to trane UFC in his basement in his tightey whiteys while drooling over a picture of Brock. 

Peace!

Grandmasta V


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Wait, wait, wait.... Fedor>All was banned?!


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

yea, after Werdum beat Fedor they figured out he was lying.


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## Can.Opener (Apr 8, 2009)

wukkadb said:


> No worries, I just don't like people downplaying a black belt in Bjj. A black belt in Bjj means to me that someone is EXTREMELY dedicated and deserves the utmost respect for their time and hard work. Seriously, a black belt in Bjj is a life time accomplishment; not something to be taken lightly.


Very true. I don't know how these guys are getting black belts under 3 years let alone 2. Maybe I'm a slow learner.

I only received a purple belt in BJJ half way through my third year of training. Although my dojo is known for being tough on grading. Took me five years for my Zen Do Kai MT black belt and a further 2 to achieve Ni Dan.


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## SchoolyV (Oct 2, 2010)

I think a lot of people do not realize how much dedication it takes to become a BJJ black belt. Hours and hours, and years and years of training. Basically, one has to dedicate a large portion of one's time, energy, and mental focus to BJJ. 

Now there are some that get their black belts based mostly on performance of their "game", usually involving a few techniques with some varitations, however, I am more impressed with someone who also has a great intellectual understanding of the art. And that one cannot get in a couple years.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, one example that I can think of where someone got a blackbelt from performance would be Mir breaking Sylvia's arm. Other than that I think it would take too much time to get a blackbelt. I would rather just say I have eleven years of experience in wrestling which is probably as good as saying I have a blackbelt in something!:thumbsup:


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

i think bjj is the only martial art where achieving a belt rank has any real world value. karate/tkd etc are laughable when it comes to belts.

actually judo as well as bjj.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

So you are basically saying the grappling arts are the only blackbelts that really count?


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

kantowrestler said:


> So you are basically saying the grappling arts are the only blackbelts that really count?


the vast majority of the time, yes.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well if you are like Lyoto Machida and have the perfect blend of the two with a BBJ blackbelt and a Shotokan blackbelt, then it makes the karate blackbelt relevent. Otherwise I have to agree that it's useless. Though at some point there needs to be a wrestling blackbelt!


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

yea there are definitely exceptions. machida is exceptional 

and..




this fellow (rip) was a practitioner of TKD


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

So he only did TKD?


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

xeberus said:


> i think bjj is the only martial art where achieving a belt rank has any real world value. karate/tkd etc are laughable when it comes to belts.
> 
> actually judo as well as bjj.


Nice to hear the last bit, in a thread that is rapidly becoming the regular hate on karate and TKD discussion.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

While we are on the subject of blackbelts, there was this one article about how after Randy's fight with Toney, he got a blackbelt in catch wrestling. Does that have any kind've worth?


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> While we are on the subject of blackbelts, there was this one article about how after Randy's fight with Toney, he got a blackbelt in catch wrestling. Does that have any kind've worth?


Considering who else has one, I would say yes.

On the subject of belts, I say it all depends on where you train. Many Mcdojos will give you a black belt if you show up for class for 2 years.

To get a Joe Lewis Black Belt you don't have to know any forms or names or do any ki-yas. You don't even *have* to punch or kick. All you have to do is stay awake for 3 three minute rounds. Each round against a different one of his top black belts. They are true bad asses in an elite club, they do not want you in it. To earn your black belt you have to take it from them. Never f*** with a Joe lewis black belt.raise01:


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

A Joe Lewis black belt? In what discipline?:confused03:


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> A Joe Lewis black belt? In what discipline?:confused03:


FIGHTING



> Starting in 1967, Lewis began training privately with Bruce Lee. Lee had Lewis test out his theories of fighting at tournaments. Lewis also began training boxing with Sugar Ray Robinson and Joe Orbillio, enhancing his skills.
> In late 1969 promoter Lee Faulkner contacted Joe Lewis to fight in his upcoming United States Karate Championships. Lewis had retired from point fighting at the time but agreed to fight if Faulkner would promote a full-contact karate bout with Lewis and an opponent who would fight to the knockout. Faulkner agreed. As Lewis and Greg Baines entered the ring wearing boxing gloves the announcer identified the fighters as "kickboxers". That night Joe Lewis won the newly conceived United States Heavyweight 'Kickboxing' Championship on January 17, 1970 with a second round knockout over Greg Baines


http://www.joelewisfightingsystems.com/


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

So his roots are in Jeet Kun Do and he created a discipline from there?


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

The man invented "American kickboxing" and trained with the Gracies and Judo Gene Lebel more than 30 years ago.

I know what everyone around here thinks of wikipedia but they've got it mostly right on him. 



> Joe Lewis is an American kickboxer and point karate fighter who gained fame for his matches in the 1960s and 1970s. *He has twice been voted the greatest fighter in karate history,*[1] and has attained the titles of "United States Heavyweight Kickboxing Champion," "World Heavyweight Karate Champion," [2] and "United States National Black Belt Kata Champion." [1]
> Contents [hide]
> 1 Biography
> 2 Karate career
> ...


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I've never heard of any of those three titles. Are they still active or defunct?


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## SchoolyV (Oct 2, 2010)

Jow Lewis was a the real deal. He was a kickboxing technician in his time. A tough guy who knew his stuff. Now would he be a K-1 champ today? I doubt it, but definitely a pioneer. 

Personally, I think all arts have some value, some more than others, depending on the context. If you like something, study it. 

Having said that, I think for most arts, it is more the person than the art. A strong, athletic, big person can make most arts work.
BJJ was the one art I found where I could beat football players and wrestlers. In any other art I would mostly likely have lost to them.

At the end of the day, do whatever you enjoy. Most of us only train for fun and don't get into altercations, etc. You only live once, you might as well as enjoy your time on Earth. Practicality is overrated.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> I've never heard of any of those three titles. Are they still active or defunct?


Look at the dates and take a guess genius. Or you could take a break from racking up worthless posts and educate yourself. There's this new thing called google.:cheeky4:


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

was he named after the boxer joe Louis


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> was he named after the boxer joe Louis


Are you named after Guy Mezger?


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Oh Joe Louis. One of the greatest boxers ever. I wonder if anyone can ever surpass him!:thumbsup:


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Oh Joe Louis. One of the greatest boxers ever. I wonder if anyone can ever surpass him!:thumbsup:


Do you have a quota ??:thumbsdown:


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

No I just like to talk about someone that great. But now I looked him up and granted he has good credentials. I have to agree that he is good and that if he had been in modern times he probably would've been a good fighter, but like Antonio Inoki and Dan Hodges that didn't happen!


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

i actually tried to check him out >_>

couldnt find any legit sources about him >_<



swpthleg said:


> Nice to hear the last bit, in a thread that is rapidly becoming the regular hate on karate and TKD discussion.


i dont hate karate and TKD. i think they're great for people who enjoy that kind of thing.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

xeberus said:


> i actually tried to check him out >_>
> 
> couldnt find any legit sources about him >_<
> 
> ...


Here's what the International Kickboxing Federation says about him.
http://www.ikfkickboxing.com/JoeLewis.htm


And here he is sparring at 47& 48 years old. I met him 10 years later when I was 40 and he was 57 and still kicking the crap out of young black belts that were kicking the crap out of me.











and sparring with Bill "superfoot" Wallace






Beat Chuck Norris point fighting






with Bruce lee.









Yeah...... I'm a *big* fan.raise01:


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