# I think Cain is better than Fedor



## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm just curious to see how many fans believe that Cain would beat Fedor if they were to fight this spring.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

The_Senator said:


> I'm just curious to see how many fans believe that Cain would beat Fedor if they were to fight this spring.


I'd still go with Fedor.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

I go with Fedor as well!


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> I'd still go with Fedor.


I think so too, by TKO probably


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

I voted Fedor by T/KO


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## sNatch204 (Oct 13, 2006)

fedor. kongo dropped him twice, if fedor drops him, hes going to finish him. Plus if cain takes fedor to the ground i can see fedor subbing him. Who knows though.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm not voting on this simply because its one of those fights where I would literally give 50/50 to each fighter give 50/50 to each fighter, so if there was an option saying "I have no idea" I would of voted.

As for the comment in the title quote, "Cain is Better than Fedor", this comment is many years away from ever been proven true even if one day against all odds it does prevale. There is no question over who is the most decorated fighter.


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## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

Fedor by tko or ko. Fedor is just to much for him. Fedor would hunt his chin and finish what Kongo couldn't. That or he would catch him in some submission. Either way Fedor would win.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> As for the comment in the title quote, "Cain is Better than Fedor", this comment is many years away from ever been proven true even if one day against all odds it does prevale. There is no question over who is the most decorated fighter.


Right, but it's judging by their last performances in the last 4-5 fights: who showed more heart, who displayed better BJJ & Kickboxing skills, whose chin is better and who has more power and eventually who is a better overall fighter.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Since i guess there will always be the retarded "kongo rocked him logic"

why not some, Fujita rocked Fedor.

Arona out grappled Fedor.

but who cares, getting hurt isnt a sign of weakness, overcoming it is the sign of strength. you would think Fedor fans would understand it, considering the wars and damage he has taken.

Is Fujita the man or something?? Is Kongo?? lol w/e

as for the fight, i think Cain has a good shot as anybody. i havent seen Fedor fight anybody as fast as himself before, i think it is by far the most interesting matchup in the division for Fedor.

Fedor doesnt KO that many ppl and Cain has a chin, bad choice as usual around here. Fedor is unlikely to take Cain down IMO but he could win a decision for sure or catch him


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> . i havent seen Fedor fight anybody as fast as himself before, i think it is by far the most interesting matchup in the division for Fedor.


Arlovski is pretty fast and explosive and he was ranked as #2 at the moment when Fedor fought him last year and as we could see explosiveness wasn't much of a factor there.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Man you go to far to state that someone who has a 8-0 record vs a proven legend with what 32-1. Tell me Cain fights a prime Big Nog x 2 (ex-Pride/UFC champ), CC (Pride Champ), Arlovski (ex-champ), Tim Sylvia (ex-champ) Brett Rogers, Semmy Schilt, Arona, Sobral and beats all of em resoundingly then maybe. Of course add in the in between fights of mediocre to tomato cans which he stills whips. In this day and age anybody has a punchers chance. Maybe we'll talk. 

Threads like these are a bit over the top. If it's meant to create buzz sure you got it, but it should be "Can Cain take Fedor."


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> Man you go to far to state that someone who has a 8-0 record vs a proven legend with what 32-1. Tell me Cain fights a prime Big Nog x 2 (ex-Pride/UFC champ), CC (Pride Champ), Arlovski (ex-champ), Tim Sylvia (ex-champ) Brett Rogers, Semmy Schilt, Arona, Sobral and beats all of em resoundingly then maybe. Of course add in the in between fights of mediocre to tomato cans which he stills whips. In this day and age anybody has a punchers chance. Maybe we'll talk.


haha. Usually, people look at the list of latest victims. Everything that was more than 3 years ago doesn't really matter - chin, power, age, speed are never the same after that much time. I even go as far as to say that perhaps the punch that rocked Fedor (from Fujita) may very well knock him out nowadays.


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## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

I'd go for Fedor, but I'd agree Cain has a great shot, better than most actually.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

The_Senator said:


> Right, but it's judging by their last performances in the last 4-5 fights: who showed more heart, who displayed better BJJ & Kickboxing skills, whose chin is better and who has more power and eventually who is a better overall fighter.


I would definitely give the More Heart and better chin to Fedor, the number of times that guy as been hurt and come back to win is his ultimate defining feature that has made him the legend that he is, this even shown in his last fight against Rogers.

I would not discount Cains chances of beating him he does look stronger and faster which you can't ignore so you have to give him that edge.

As for is both his ground game and stand up better than Fedors, that is a brave statement that has yet to be proven, in many ways the fact Cain is very good standing as well as on the ground makes him very similar to Fador, would not like to be the person to call that statement right or wrong, would be a really interesting fight though which just makes me wish even more that Fedor was in the UFC


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

There's a lot of hype for em, but for him to be on the same pedestal he'd have to beat Mir, GG, Carwin, JDS, and Brock then remain undefeated til he reaches 30 fights. He hasn't been put to the test yet against a true KO finisher. 

In fact I'd like to see Cain vs Brett Rogers for kicks.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> in his last fight against Rogers.


Excellent fight. The only major flaw in Fedor's game is that he bleeds very often, that jab from Rogers made a serious damage. I'm glad he could come back, but still.


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

To say Cain would win in simply stupid. Maybe in 5 years when Cain has more experience and Fedor is a grandpa.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Intermission said:


> To say Cain would win in simply stupid. Maybe in 5 years when Cain has more experience and Fedor is a grandpa.


 no, to state a concenus top 5 HW has no shot whatsoever is beyond stupid. 5 more years?? he is top 5 right now, is this what Fedor fans do... act like idiots. If only they had half the class and respect that Fedor himself has we would have interesting conversations. To dismiss any top 5 as having no chance means you really know little to nothing about any combat sport.

Alot of you are stupid ridiculous, you dont need to copy Fedors exact accomplishments to beat him. you just need to be better then him on one single night. Get a grip on reality plz.


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

The Cain hype is getting a bit out of hand. Fedor by submission.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Cain has as good of a chance at beating Fedor as anyone else. 

The fact is, it's been 10 years, and over this course there have been countless "X guy can beat/is ready to fight Fedor", and it always ends the same way.

That's not to say these threads are old, Fedor is just a man and can be beaten, just very unlikely.

I would see Fedor KO/TKO cain in the first or second, as I believe Fedor will overwhelm him as quickly as possible to avoid the clinch with a wrestler in a cage (he would do this with Randy, Brock, and Carwin as well). I believe he'd put the pressure on and use that power and speed of his to drop and put Cain away. I'd see Fedor simply working faster, harder, and trying to finish the fight earlier, because of the style matchup, and I believe he would, indeed, finish it early (first or second, as stated).

Also, yes, I know Cain's striking is improving, but it's not on Fedor's level, it isn't.


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

alizio said:


> no, to state a concenus top 5 HW has no shot whatsoever is beyond stupid. 5 more years?? he is top 5 right now, is this what Fedor fans do... act like idiots. If only they had half the class and respect that Fedor himself has we would have interesting conversations. To dismiss any top 5 as having no chance means you really know little to nothing about any combat sport.
> 
> Alot of you are stupid ridiculous, you dont need to copy Fedors exact accomplishments to beat him. you just need to be better then him on one single night. Get a grip on reality plz.


Your saying how Fedor fans are bad? Well first off I am a Cain fan. (Check my profile) 

Its just reality, and Fedor fans say stupid things? You have posted 7006940 times about how godly Cain is and its getting a little out of hand now, seriously.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> Alot of you are stupid ridiculous, you dont need to copy Fedors exact accomplishments to beat him. you just need to be better then him on one single night. Get a grip on reality plz.


true, and if you have some luck it's even better. Fedor that fought Mark Hunt was pretty beatable, and even Hunt had Fedor in some bad spots, if his BJJ was better, he could've submitted Emelianenko.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> Cain has as good of a chance at beating Fedor as anyone else.
> 
> The fact is, it's been 10 years, and over this course there have been countless "X guy can beat/is ready to fight Fedor", and it always ends the same way.
> 
> ...


 good post, reasonable thinking. u should give a real fedor fan 101 course around here. instead of just saying "fedorz is godz" and other nonsense you states reasons you think he would win.

It is VERY REASONABLE when a up and coming undefeated prospect destroys the 2nd greatest HW of all time.... to ask.... could he beat the best of all time?? Anyone that doesnt think so is either a Cain hater, a fedor is god delusional hugger or just a moron, sorry to say.


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## UFCFAN89 (Jan 20, 2010)

Personally, I'd like for Cain to face JDS before I really know where he's at. I said he had pillow hands before the Nog fight (yes, I know 7 of his fights are by stoppage), but I never saw the KO power. Nog has a granite chin and I will not underestimate Cain anymore.

With that said, I need to see him against a "young" contender in someone like JDS who has 3 wins in his UFC career by KO or TKO with a dominant performance against CC and an above average ground game, though we haven't seen much of it.

Right now, I would say Fedor would take it via KO/TKO.


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## Inkdot (Jun 15, 2009)

Cain can definately defeat Fedor, I just think Fedor has a greater chance of beating Cain then the opposite.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

one thing u gotta love about Cain, like Fedor, he seems oblivious to hype and to pressure. he is just a humble dude that goes out there because he loves to compete.

Intermission you seriously need to think about the nonsense u are saying. Cain should wait 5 years?? He is top 5 right now, if he is 5 years away then nobody has the "right" to challenge fedor?? you arent even a fan of the sport with this talk, just a fan of Fedor and its ridiculous.

I WANT CAIN TO FIGHT EVERYBODY. Including Fedor. You guys seem to want Fedor to fight a mythical person who doesnt exist because apparently nobody is good enough.


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

alizio said:


> because he loves to compete.


Oh you mean like every other MMArtist?


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Fedor fights because he needs to put food on his family's table, and anyone who gets in his way of that (his competition) must be terminated.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> Fedor fights because he needs to put food on his family's table, and anyone who gets in his way of that (his competition) must be terminated.


I think at this point of his life, he doesn't really need MMA as a major source of income. So what motivates him?


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Intermission said:


> Oh you mean like every other MMArtist?


 no, plenty of guys have ego with their fights, fight for $, fight for fame, fight for glory. i like how u erased half the quote to make a silly point that really isnt a good point at all.

many guys cant take the pressure or the grind of working out, if you dont realize this, you must not have ever been around boxing or mma gyms.

There is a huge difference between guys that are there cuz they love it and guys that are there and it feels like work to them.

Guys who love it last much longer at higher levels. Guys like Randy and Fedor.


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## UFC on VHS (Dec 16, 2008)

Fedor by armbar


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

All aboard the wagon of fights that will never happen!!!


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Cain is a more accurate striker then Fedor. Just a fact.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

The_Senator said:


> I think at this point of his life, he doesn't really need MMA as a major source of income. So what motivates him?


Right, if anybody doesn't need to fight for money it's probably Fedor! Even though he came out in a time where MMA wasn't nearly that big as it is today.

I guess he still fights, because of his name and because he enjoys it. Everybody likes a little bit fame, even Fedor.


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

Guys, I just want to say that before the big nog fight, I thought Cain was unproven, but now that he has beaten an old, washed up Big Nog, I too believe that Cain is the best in the world and can beat legends. Please note, I am basing my opinion off of his luck shot victory in the Big Nog fight. Mind you, it is totally not illogical to formulate your opinion in this manner. 

Fedor would rock his ass, sorry. Cain is good though, but still less proven than Brock. Heath Herring, Frank Mir, Couture > Kongo, Nog, Rothwell. I am very excited to see what Cain can do, though. He seems like a very humble guy too.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

The_Senator said:


> I think at this point of his life, he doesn't really need MMA as a major source of income. So what motivates him?


He has stated before that he fights simply for money. I'm sure he loves to fight as well, also in his own words, "I have found what I am best at, so I think I have found myself".

Every fighter who is on his level or the UFC level, loves to fight, it's why they do it. with that said, a lot of them also fight mainly for money, it's their job, it's how they make a living. Fedor has stated already that he fights to feed his family. 

He does like/love fighting, I am sure, but no more than anyone else that does it for a living. (Except maybe Penn, as the guy was born into a rich family, he fights just to fight).


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

alizio said:


> Since i guess there will always be the retarded "kongo rocked him logic"
> 
> why not some, Fujita rocked Fedor.
> 
> ...


Fujita is much stronger than Kongo. Also, Kongo dropped him with what shouldn't have been a huge punch. Twice.

Fedor Via TKO since he has a way better chin and would beat Cain standing.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> He has stated before that he fights simply for money. I'm sure he loves to fight as well, also in his own words, "I have found what I am best at, so I think I have found myself".
> 
> Every fighter who is on his level or the UFC level, loves to fight, it's why they do it. with that said, a lot of them also fight mainly for money, it's their job, it's how they make a living. Fedor has stated already that he fights to feed his family.
> 
> He does like/love fighting, I am sure, but no more than anyone else that does it for a living. (Except maybe Penn, as the guy was born into a rich family, he fights just to fight).


 the fighting is the fun part. the training is what most guys dont love.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

diablo5597 said:


> Only a matter of time before this thread is Hijacked by Alizio.
> 
> I voted Fedor by T/KO


haha just wanted to say that


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

I remember Forrest said after the fight with Jardine (I think it was then) that his closest people told him to continue fighting simply because he cannot do anything else and he's not good at anything else. I know there was a bit of a joke, but partially it's true.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

alizio said:


> the fighting is the fun part. the training is what most guys dont love.


yea I mean just look at Fedor right now, the guy has serious swimming rings.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

alizio said:


> the fighting is the fun part. the training is what most guys dont love.


There have been countless interviews with fighters stating "I love to burn in the gym, I love the smell of it, love the feel of it, I love training", as well as guys like Rampage who state that they don't like training. It all depends on the fighter.

At the end of the day, people fight for money, not for the love it. It's just like any other job, say you're a doctor and you've wanted to be a doctor for years, so you go that route. If doctors got paid crap, no one would spend 8 years of their life in college/med school even if they really wanted to be one, as they would get paid like crap. they'd go and find another career that they liked that they could make more money with.

fighting is the same way. These guys fight because they love it, but they get $$$$ doing it, which in in the end, is the reason they fight. Guys like Fedor and Randy, etc, they don't NEED high $$ at this point, but they DO need money, they can't just stop making money and be set the rest of their life, they have to keep making money. Since they love fighting, they know they can make big bucks doing it, so they do.

If they were making crap money from the get go and never got paid anything of quality, I am sure they would have passed and done something else.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

alizio said:


> Cain is a more accurate striker then Fedor. Just a fact.


Proove? 


More accurate like arlovski's boxing skills?

accurate or not fedor's are far more effective


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## fjurado (Oct 23, 2008)

Oh please..................Kongo had Cain dazed and confused. Cain can be knocked out, Kongo just got taken off his feet too many times.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Rusko said:


> Proove?
> 
> 
> More accurate like arlovski's boxing skills?
> ...


 Cain is the 2nd most accurate striker in the UFC. According to last nights broadcast and UFC.com. close to 70% landed. Prob moved up last night considering Nog was blocking all his punches..... with his face.

never lost a round, doesnt get hit alot. sounds like another guy who got a ton more hype and love then him tbh


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Hate me if you want  I picked Velasquez by KO/TKO. 

I think it's his time. He has decimated everyone he's faced, and beat Nogueria just like the rest of them.

I think Cain would do what he did to Nog, to Fedor.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

SJ said:


> Hate me if you want  I picked Velasquez by KO/TKO.


Wich round??


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

If they were to fight this spring, Fedor takes it via T/KO - in a couple more years, Cain takes it.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

Fedor punches him, Cain falls down tries to get up thats when he gets choked and taps.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Michael Carson said:


> Fedor fights because he needs to put food on his family's table, and anyone who gets in his way of that (his competition) must be terminated.


Hah...hah...that's actually one of my favorite quotes of all time. This is the actual quote. 

*
Years ago we hardly had anything to eat. Now I earn more money and I see every opponent as a man that tries to put me back to that poorer period. 
That man has to be eliminated.

Emelianenko, Fedor*

Thought you'd enjoy this.

http://www.mmanews.com/forums/general-mma-forum/26208-collection-quotes-relation-fedor.html (The second to last is funny from Chuck.)


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

honestly when most of the old school guys got into MMA there wasnt much $ in it. Hell, unless ur at the very top of the food chain, there still isnt.

if $ was originally the main motivator they would have looked elsewhere like boxing. so its obviously not, its nice once it came but thats not why these guys did it 1st and foremost.

Add the fact they all trained *****, or wrestling or something else they knew wouldnt make them $, its hardly the underlining factor in any of this.

u cannot achieve on that level with greed as the main motivator. i truely believe that.


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## NATAS (Jun 30, 2008)

Im sorry but at this point in time, with what we have seen of Cain, there is no way you can say he is "better then fedor" Is he a worth opponent with a chance to win, sure.


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## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

I picked Fedor by TKO, I think he is just too dynamic for Cain right now. Cain does sorta seem like a younger version of Fedor though in that he likes to represent his people/culture, is very quick, similar body type and very respectful towards opponents.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Surprised to see so many people pick Fedor by KO/TKO. 

I guess they only remember his last 2 fights but Fedor is hardly a KO/TKO artist. He only has 8 wins by KO/TKO and none of those are against anybody as good as Cain is. Arlovski maybe but the glass chin played right into him getting KOed again. 

I would only pick Fedor to wins this fight only because betting against him is just plain stupid. I cannot in my right mind bet against that guy.

I picked Cain to win only because I would love to see Fedor lose and half of his fans disappear. 

If this fight were ever to happen I think either one could win the fight. Cain's striking is only gonna get better and with his great wrestling he is a real threat to beat Fedor.

There is no need to bring up what Fedor can do.........


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> I guess they only remember his last 2 fights but Fedor is hardly a KO/TKO artist. He only has 8 wins by KO/TKO and none of those are against anybody as good as Cain is. Arlovski maybe but the glass chin played right into him getting KOed again.


So who wouldn't have been knocked out by that Fedor's punch on Affliction 2 or by the one he landed on Rogers? When you hit somebody that hard, he inevitably goes down.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

JimmyJames said:


> Surprised to see so many people pick Fedor by KO/TKO.
> 
> I guess they only remember his last 2 fights but Fedor is hardly a KO/TKO artist. He only has 8 wins by KO/TKO and none of those are against anybody as good as Cain is. Arlovski maybe but the glass chin played right into him getting KOed again.
> 
> ...


 most fedor fans just recently jumped on the wagon and think he rocks and KOs everybody and is never in trouble. So they bring up things like "cain was rocked by kongo" cuz they seem to think Fedor wasnt hurt or taken down or slammed by guys inferior to the skillset Cain brings aswell.

getting hit doesnt make you weak. not getting up does. both these guys are machines that move faster then all the other HWs. both these guys rep their cultures to the fullest while remaining humble role models. both guys have alot of strengths and can win in alot of areas. fedor has some strengths that cain does not and vice versa.

to say this wouldnt be competitive makes me think most ppl dont really watch fedor fights of the past, they just go on and on about hype and dont realize he is usually in long epic battles.

like thte machida fans who thought, OH he KO'd a couple guys in a row, he is a power puncher and finisher now.... he is gonna KO Shogun who looks impossible to KO... good call MMAforum.


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## Ground'N'Pound5 (Aug 7, 2009)

*facepalm*

cain fought only 2 good fighters imo (kongo and nogueira)

rothwell isnt trash but not necessarily the top 10

fedor has fought the cream of the crop that isnt present UFC heavyweights

fedor by KO/TKO until cain appeases me


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## FatFreeMilk (Jan 22, 2010)

I like Cains chances but I give it to Fedor.

But it's all academic really, by the time this fight takes place, Fedor would be off his prime and Cain nested on his. People would point to Fedor decline an rightly so.


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

The_Senator said:


> I'm just curious to see how many fans believe that Cain would beat Fedor if they were to fight this spring.


Wow...It amazes me how someone could discredit everything what Fedor has done over the last 10 years. He's unbeatable, hasn't lost. One touch of a glove to Cain's racist chin ang nighty night.:thumb02:


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> But it's all academic really, by the time this fight takes place, Fedor would be off his prime and Cain nested on his. People would point to Fedor decline an rightly so


What makes you think that Cain is gonna fight better and better for the next few years? There's always a chance to get brutally knocked out in the next fight and lose again afterwards. When Werdum came to UFC, fought Arlovski, displayed good skills, then beat Gonzaga and Vera, everyone was referring to him as a solid #1 contender, but then nobody (for that time) arrived and wrecked him in the first round and sent him out of UFC. Something like that can happen to anybody (ask Mirko, Chuck or Andrei) even Fedor. So far nothing indicates that Fedor is gonna decline in the next few years and Cain is gonna kill everyone. Age can be not a factor for some fighters like Henderson and Couture who are relatively old, but their prime years were around 40s, Fedor is far from that. Who knows? He may very well keep destroying people until he's 42 years old. This is MMA, anything can happen which is why it's a mistake to look too far ahead.



> Wow...It amazes me how someone could discredit everything what Fedor has done over the last 10 years. He's unbeatable, hasn't lost. One touch of a glove to Cain's racist chin ang nighty night.


As you can see 16% of all fans who answered think so. I'm not one of them, I pointed that out.


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

I've seen Fedor get beat on, and what happens? He still wins. If anything, Fedor'd get a bad cut and they'd stop the fight...

But, since it'll never happen (stupid vengeful MMA gods!)we'll all just have to argue about it!


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> I've seen Fedor get beat on, and what happens? He still wins.


You could've said the same thing about NOG until recently (especially UFC 92).


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Fedor TKO/KO:thumb03:


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## dav35 (Sep 30, 2009)

alizio said:


> *Cain is the 2nd most accurate striker in the UFC.* According to last nights broadcast and UFC.com. close to 70% landed. Prob moved up last night considering Nog was blocking all his punches..... with his face.
> 
> never lost a round, doesnt get hit alot. sounds like another guy who got a ton more hype and love then him tbh


I like Cain too, but that isn't a significant stat. He doesn't have many fights, and that stat is a function of who you've fought. 

Cain's good, but he has a lot to prove still.


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

The_Senator said:


> You could've said the same thing about NOG until recently (especially UFC 92).


True, but Nog's lost before... Fedor, not so much. And I wasn't using an equation to make my point, I was pointing out that, despite what Fedor haters like to think, he's never shown a second's worth of weakness. Look at the Arlovski fight, in slow motion, almost none of AA's punches landed, and despite his recent problems, he's just as fast (or more fast) than Valasquez.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> Fedor, not so much. And I wasn't using an equation to make my point, I was pointing out that, despite what Fedor haters like to think, he's never shown a second's worth of weakness. Look at the Arlovski fight, in slow motion, almost none of AA's punches landed, and despite his recent problems, he's just as fast (or more fast) than Valasquez.


Fedor always looks very beatable at first which is why I don't consider his latest bouts as problems, he's been in troubles plenty of times before, and there wasn't anything new, but Rogers' jab did serious damage nonetheless. Hunt had him in bad spots and even Rogers was pounding him in the face on the ground, both of them aren't known for awesome wrestling of BJJ skills and Fedor is supposed to be an expert in that area with his ***** background, but he was giving up the top position many times, Brock Lesnar with his A-game could've finished him from there. That's something for Fedor's coaches to think about if that fight will ever take place, this is a flaw in my opinion.


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

The_Senator said:


> Fedor always looks very beatable at first which is why I don't consider his latest bouts as problems, he's been in troubles plenty of times before, and there wasn't anything new, but Rogers' jab did serious damage nonetheless. Hunt had him in bad spots and even Rogers was pounding him in the face on the ground, both of them aren't known for awesome wrestling of BJJ skills and Fedor is supposed to be an expert in that area with his ***** background, but he was giving up the top position many times, Brock Lesnar with his A-game could've finished him from there. That's something for Fedor's coaches to think about if that fight will ever take place, this is a flaw in my opinion.


And he still comes out on top! I'm not saying he can't ever conceivably lose, but every time he's "in trouble" he reverses the situation then wins within a few minutes! It's all part of his game plan. But, eventually it could catch up with him. I just think CV's exuberance would result in a very similar fight to Fedor/AA.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> And he still comes out on top! I'm not saying he can't ever conceivably lose, but every time he's "in trouble" he reverses the situation then wins within a few minutes! It's all part of his game plan. But, eventually it could catch up with him. I just think CV's exuberance would result in a very similar fight to Fedor/AA.


Well, you see, the thing is that those guys are Hunt and Rogers and they are not the experts of ground game, so, of course, it's much easier for Fedor to avoid being caught in a submission or pounded unconscious when the opponent is not confident in what he's doing. On the other hand, when he faces BJJ guy like Nogueira or wrestler like Coleman, he shows his A-game from start to finish without even being in real danger. So the point is that in order to beat Fedor, you need to surprise him by doing what he doesn't anticipate and to do so you need to be extremely versatile. Is Cain that type of a fighter? I think he doesn't have what it takes yet to keep it standing and be able to put Emelianenko in serious danger using solid boxing skills. If Cain beats JDS or some other great striker with tons of experience STANDING than he's definitely a huge threat to everyone not just Fedor.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

At this point I would still pick Fedor. His ground experience would negate Cain's ground strengths, and Fedor has great KO power and can deal with fast hands. AA couldn't touch him and AA has better stand up than Cain


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Terror Kovenant said:


> At this point I would still pick Fedor. His ground experience would negate Cain's ground strengths, and Fedor has great KO power and can deal with fast hands. AA couldn't touch him and AA has better stand up than Cain


 MMA math!! awesome!!

does AA have better standup then Brett Rogers aswell?? I bet you would say, hell yea.

OVER


RATED



AA

You cant just unleash bombs on Cain, you gotta worry about the takedown. Standing up with him is like standing with GSP, in the back of ur head ur worried about the takedown and u cant let off like u really want. To compare Cain to him is lame. They arent nearly the same fighter and they dont present the same problems.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

alizio said:


> MMA math!! awesome!!
> 
> does AA have better standup then Brett Rogers aswell?? I bet you would say, hell yea.
> 
> ...


I love Arlovski but his best win is over Tim Sylvia, who also then beat him twice after that. 

Arlovski is the most overrated HW ever. And I am a fan of his..........


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

JimmyJames said:


> I love Arlovski but his best win is over Tim Sylvia, who also then beat him twice after that.
> 
> Arlovski is the most overrated HW ever. And I am a fan of his..........


 go watch AA fight Big Ben.... tell he who hits harder and more accurate again?? Cain smoked Ben. Ben bomb after bomb from AA. Actually for ppl that have never seen this fight, it is EPIC.

go watch him struggle with Big Country on him. Tell me Cain wouldnt swallow him whole on the ground plz

ty for telling the truth, obv AA is overrated.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

alizio said:


> MMA math!! awesome!!
> 
> does AA have better standup then Brett Rogers aswell?? I bet you would say, hell yea.
> 
> ...


Fedor is comfortable on the ground and has the submission skills to deal with Cain. You talk about Fedor not being able to deal with Cain's fast hands when in fact Fedor has dealt with faster hands from a better striker.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Fedor is comfortable on the ground and has the submission skills to deal with Cain. You talk about Fedor not being able to deal with Cain's fast hands when in fact Fedor has dealt with faster hands from a better striker.


AA being a better striker than Cain doesnt mean much.

Rogers did more damage to Fedor striking than Arlovski did and Arlovski is a much better striker than him. 

I think Fedor stands a better chance for a sub than a KO/TKO. Reason being is that he is a better submission grappler than he is a striker.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Fedor is comfortable on the ground and has the submission skills to deal with Cain. You talk about Fedor not being able to deal with Cain's fast hands when in fact Fedor has dealt with faster hands from a better striker.


 again, AA isnt a better striker, thats why he gets KO'd all the time, he has huge holes in his standup. he does have fast hand tho, ill give u that.

Cain would smoke AA, just standing. You guys are really in the dark on how good he is.

As for Fedor, yes, he is very fast aswell and very good on the ground aswell. Cain has no big edge besides his wrestling. 

In a cage, it will greatly benefit Cain. If Rogers can find top position near the cage, perhaps so can Cain who is also a very fast scrambler and well adapted to holding bigger guys down. 

Cain is the Latino Fedor. Dont you see it?  i dont know who will win but i do know Fedor isnt running over Cain like he ran over the last 3 guys.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

....and even when Nog wins, he's often gotten beaten up pretty badly prior to the sub...



pt447 said:


> True, but Nog's lost before... Fedor, not so much. And I wasn't using an equation to make my point, I was pointing out that, despite what Fedor haters like to think, he's never shown a second's worth of weakness. Look at the Arlovski fight, in slow motion, almost none of AA's punches landed, and despite his recent problems, he's just as fast (or more fast) than Valasquez.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

If Fedor has taught us anything, its that its not all about how particularly good u are in one particular area. its well roundedness and the ability to adapt to any sitution that make fighters great.

to simply put so and so is better then Cain at this and Fedor handled it, is simple minded and basically has no basis on how it would go down with Cain.

90% seem to have no relative clue about how good Cain really is, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. Despite all the respected fighters and trainers saying he is the shit, despite him going straight to the UFC after only 1 pro fight (in strikeforce). Dominating 3 respected vets known for being iron jawwed and strong willed. Breaking all 3 of them.

I dont know what else Cain could have done up to this point in his career, barring coming to your house and beating the crap outta your entire family then flying to your fav fighters house and doing the same, to prove he is for real. He is something special, and we should all take notice of a legend in the making.

Take your hate blinders off, take your dunce caps off, do a little research on Cain Valasquez, see what other fighters says, what training partners, trainers, fighters who fought him. Watch him train.

If u can come back after that and really tell me you dont think he belongs in a ring with Fedor, i will respect the opinion. Until then, alot of you just seem to be like those dunce ppl that didnt realize LeBron James was as good as the hype coming into the NBA without really watching him play. Just hating for the sake of hating.


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## wolunt (Jan 11, 2010)

I think it's a bit soon for that. While I'm not the biggest Fedor nutthugger, Cain still needs to show me a bit more for me to agree that he beats Fedor. I still see Kongo dropping him a few times in that fight. I do think Cain is good and Fedor is falling, just don't know if they have cross yet.


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

Alizio as a huge Cain supporter do you agree that fight with Fedor at this very moment could hurt his career? (This is impossible to happen I know) 

I think he is fast learner and he is improving BJJ lightspeed. So I think 1year - 2-3fight in top UFC, grab the belt and then he should 100% ready for Fedor.

I think that Cain has chance to win right now. But if he loses it could hurt his career more. In 1 year he has a lot more chance to earn title best HW in the world.


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

alizio said:


> Since i guess there will always be the retarded "kongo rocked him logic"
> 
> why not some, Fujita rocked Fedor.
> 
> ...


arona out grappled fedor years ago and getting out grappled by someone like arona is not something that can be listed as a fault


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Fedor would knock him out, and has to good of a ground game to be controlled very long


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

alizio said:


> as for the fight, i think Cain has a good shot as anybody. i havent seen Fedor fight anybody as fast as himself before, i think it is by far the most interesting matchup in the division for Fedor.


Arlovski would run rings around Cain with his speed. The fact that Fedor stole his soul shouldn't detract from the kind of momentum Arlovski had going into the Fedor fight, KOing the likes of Rothwell and Nelson. Arlovski's standup >>>> Cain's, except for a weaker chin... but I doubt Cain would be standing either if he took one of those bombs that knocked off Arlovski and Rogers.

Cain had a great fight, but this board has always had only a 1 fight memory. Suddenly Cain is the best in the world ... no Big Nog is slow as hell and has always had terrible standup consisting of running in with his chin and getting pounded into cookie dough, until he somehow managed a sub. The game has passed him by... beating him proves as much as beating Liddell anymore, I suspect we'll find that out in Nog's next few fights if they're against tough young contenders and not other aging veterans like Couture, Coleman etc. This does not make Nog any less a legend than it makes Chuch or Royce, but facts are facts.

Cain is a legit threat, but I'd me more convinced he's ready for Fedor if he beats one of the other top young guns like Lesnar, Carwin or Dos Santos, instead of an aging and unevolved Big Nog. I doubt he'd get past any of those three.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Cain is legit, no doubt.
And i think he has a good chance against Fedor. He is strong, agressive, great wrestler.
BUT (big but), at this moment, Fedor has the same qualities Cain has, plus, i dare to say Fedor is bette than cain in every aspect of the game. Not by much, but that's what makes the difference.
Plus he has the experience factor to his advantage. Some may say Nogueira had experience to his advantage, but in this case, it didn't matter. IMO, only thing Nog had an advantage over Cain was his jiu-jitsu. 

I would pick Fedor at this moment, no doubt.
But in 2-3 years, things could turn arround.


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> Arlovski would run rings around Cain with his speed. The fact that Fedor stole his soul shouldn't detract from the kind of momentum Arlovski had going into the Fedor fight, KOing the likes of Rothwell and Nelson. Arlovski's standup >>>> Cain's, except for a weaker chin... but I doubt Cain would be standing either if he took one of those bombs that knocked off Arlovski and Rogers.
> 
> Cain had a great fight, but this board has always had only a 1 fight memory. Suddenly Cain is the best in the world ... no Big Nog is slow as hell and has always had terrible standup consisting of running in with his chin and getting pounded into cookie dough, until he somehow managed a sub. The game has passed him by... beating him proves as much as beating Liddell anymore, I suspect we'll find that out in Nog's next few fights if they're against tough young contenders and not other aging veterans like Couture, Coleman etc. This does not make Nog any less a legend than it makes Chuch or Royce, but facts are facts.
> 
> Cain is a legit threat, but I'd me more convinced he's ready for Fedor if he beats one of the other top young guns like Lesnar, Carwin or Dos Santos, instead of an aging and unevolved Big Nog. I doubt he'd get past any of those three.


THIS, it's so ******* annoying how people do that, just because he beat nog in the stand up aspect it doesn't grant him this status people have given him, we never got to see what would have happened if nog played the ground game as was the same with maia vs nate, it doesn't prove as much as people want it too. but cain is legit


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

joe davola said:


> THIS, it's so ******* annoying how people do that, just because he beat nog in the stand up aspect it doesn't grant him this status people have given him, we never got to see what would have happened if nog played the ground game as was the same with maia vs nate, it doesn't prove as much as people want it too. but cain is legit


Well put! Exactly my sentiments.


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## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

I really wish Fedor would just hurry up and sign with the UFC, then instead of every time a decent HW prospect pops up having a "yeah he's good but can he beat Fedor thread" he could just actually fight them and we'd know for sure.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

I definitely think he *can* beat Fedor, but I don't consider Cain a better fighter than Fedor.


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## lagmonkey (Apr 23, 2008)

Life B Ez said:


> All aboard the wagon of fights that will never happen!!!


Nice! :thumb02:

I'll pick Fedor for no other reason than I want some alizio outrage with my morning cup of coffee.


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## swedish_fighter (Jul 12, 2009)

Emelianenko via KO/TKO.. Probably going down like him vs Silvia. Cain got no experience.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> Arlovski would run rings around Cain with his speed. The fact that Fedor stole his soul shouldn't detract from the kind of momentum Arlovski had going into the Fedor fight, KOing the likes of Rothwell and Nelson. Arlovski's standup >>>> Cain's, except for a weaker chin... but I doubt Cain would be standing either if he took one of those bombs that knocked off Arlovski and Rogers.
> 
> Cain had a great fight, but this board has always had only a 1 fight memory. Suddenly Cain is the best in the world ... no Big Nog is slow as hell and has always had terrible standup consisting of running in with his chin and getting pounded into cookie dough, until he somehow managed a sub. The game has passed him by... beating him proves as much as beating Liddell anymore, I suspect we'll find that out in Nog's next few fights if they're against tough young contenders and not other aging veterans like Couture, Coleman etc. This does not make Nog any less a legend than it makes Chuch or Royce, but facts are facts.
> 
> Cain is a legit threat, but I'd me more convinced he's ready for Fedor if he beats one of the other top young guns like Lesnar, Carwin or Dos Santos, instead of an aging and unevolved Big Nog. I doubt he'd get past any of those three.


 
NOT THE WHOLE BOARD HAS A ONE FIGHT MEMORY, I referrenced the JDS love after he beat Gilbert earlier on the thread....Cain and JDS..... THESE 2 NEED TO FIGHT.......I agree here, I was actually worried for Fedor in that last fight with AA until that freakin Knee.....he was def owning him in the standup till the shot around the world landed...I think he could do this to Cain AA's striking is def better but Cain would just shoot and take him down, so AA would def have to establish that distance and keep the footwork very active.....AA is pretty good at stuffing takedowns, HE NEEDS TO KEEP BOTH HANDS UP....PERIOD!!!!

Good Post:thumb02:


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

Until someone actually tests Cain's ground game (something I was thoroughly hoping that Nog would do or even attempt) I easily say that Fedor would sub him.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

I think the poll results tell the story but Cain is legit, no doubt.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Samborules said:


> I think the poll results tell the story but Cain is legit, no doubt.


Poll results also picked Nog :shame02: But I do agree with the overwhelming results favoring Feyador.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

I think Fedor would win becuse he is a monster and if he didn't rock Velasquez at some point he probably would have a good chance at submitting him. You could tell that Velasquez wanted nothing to do with Nog on the ground and that is because he is a little sloppy still. I honestly think that if Fedor came to the UFC and fought Velasquez, Dos Santos, Mir and Lesnar he wouldn't beat all of them though.

These guys are the new breed of HW, no longer freakshows or one dimensional fighters they are great athletes and strong at all of the MMA aspects.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

420atalon said:


> I think Fedor would win becuse he is a monster and if he didn't rock Velasquez at some point he probably would have a good chance at submitting him. You could tell that Velasquez wanted nothing to do with Nog on the ground and that is because he is a little sloppy still. I honestly think that if Fedor came to the UFC and fought Velasquez, Dos Santos, Mir and Lesnar he wouldn't beat all of them though.
> 
> These guys are the new breed of HW, no longer freakshows or one dimensional fighters they are great athletes and strong at all of the MMA aspects.


 how could you tell Cain wanted nothing to do with Nog on the ground?? He was handing Nog his ass standing, then as soon as Nog got dropped, he walked right around his guard and dropped 4 Abombs on his head.

Frank Mir wanted nothing to do with Nog on the ground.

Fedor definately has the sub edge. But Cain is a world champion at BJJ to think he cant perform some subs is silly, he just prefers control and GnP. Obv Fedors subs are MUCH better then Cains anyways and much faster and more variety.

Cain has a massive edge in wrestling, TDs, TDD and top control.

Standing. I dont know. Fedor has looked good lately but really AA was getting the better of him. He definately schooled both Rogers and Big Timmy BUT i think Cain could school both of them aswell.

Cain would EASILY outbox Brett Rogers. It would be KO city. Brett knows this.

Reeally i just think it would be a very exciting fight, i would obv be pulling for Cain hard but i wouldnt be shocked if Fedor won.

It seems if Cain won alot of you would be shocked but i wouldnt and i bet Cains reaction wouldnt look like he was shocked either.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

More speculation rhetoric, YIKES.

Lets speculate on fights that actually could happen. Like the loser of Mir/Carwin faces Cain and winner gets Lesnar?


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

The_Senator said:


> I'm just curious to see how many fans believe that Cain would beat Fedor if they were to fight this spring.


The debate in the poll seems to be over whether they think Fedor would win by submission or TKO.

I lean toward TKO.

Cain's boxing is good. It's not that good. Looking at the list of guys Fedor has outboxed (and the guys he's outwrestled), Cain isn't at the top of the list.

I like Cain. I have respect for the guy. He's a terrific athlete with a great wrestling background and a good set of skills for moving into the upper-echelon of the heavyweight division in the UFC. He destroyed Nog and people should be talking about him a serious UFC title contender.

He can't take Fedor.

There's nothing in his toolbox right now that makes me think he would have a shot at stopping Fedor, and nothing that makes me think he could weather the storm that Fedor brings to the table.

At least Arlovski had his boxing skill.

At least Rogers had that freakish punching power.

At least Sylvia had the height advantage.

Cain brings a wrestling background inferior to Coleman and Randleman. He brings jiu-jitsu less impressive than Nogueira's. He brings dirty boxing less serious than Rogers.

If Cain shows up and wins a UFC title, if he's bringing a great mix of skills and athleticism and putting on definitive performances, then it's worth having the conversation, but not right now.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

honestly, all credability goes out the window when you say Coleman and Randleman are better MMA HW Wrestlers then Cain. Its plainly obvious you just dont know what Cain is about or have the slightest idea. Very insulting. Those guys arent even true HWs. Cain would throw them around like nothing in the Octogon.

Again, in his prime and roided out, Cain would throw Mark Coleman around like he was nothing. Coleman has a big double leg, thats it, thats his whole aresenal of wrestling. 

Randleman is as good an athlete as Cain and has alot of different takedowns and slams but he lacks the cardio and isnt a true HW either. 

They both are much slower then Cain and are 10x worse standing. So lame to think ppl dont realize the evolution of the sport.

WRESTLING CREDITENTIALS MEAN NOTHING FOR MMA WRESTLING!!! 

pay attention its right in front of your eyes. To say Coleman or Randleman were better at any aspect of MMA then Cain is right now shows alot of ignorance tbh

As for Big Timmy and Rogers, Cain would eat their food. You obviously have no idea what this kid is about or half a clue how talented he is. Go ask Brett Rogers himself about Cain, yet you are giving Brett credit?? Brett got beat up STANDING sparring with Cain. Find out about it. 

Let me ask you this. Up to this point in his career. What more could Cain Valasquez have done to prove he deserves a shot with any HW in the world??

Im done educating ppl on Cain Valasquez, i swear. I know how Chael feels when ppl look at him crazy now. Ppl just talk and really have no idea, never really watched him train, never heard what ppl say, dont really breakdown how crazy good he has been in every fight. How he looks better every time. Its crazy, ppl just talk. Keep believing he is just some wrestler.


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

wait is the op saying he thinks cain is better than fedor and wants to know what others think?....

This thread is strange coming off cain's ko of nog. why so many think fedor ko? sub if anything-most of his wins are by sub. 3 of his ko's were by doctor stoppage via cuts. cain has a shot like any hw with all around skills.

arlovski leaves his chin out all the time
rogers had punching power but lacked technique
sylvia had a hieght advantage............

cains boxing isn't great just yet-it looked good against nog who was slower and had his hands low and took a shot to the chin.

If cain can get it to the ground and wear him out its possible. I never say something is impossible because on any night anything can happen. its unlikely because fedor has such a huge experience advantage but not impossible-i still go with fedor by sub though.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

here is Cain saying he can take down Fedor, if somebody wants to Embed ;P

He also says "Fedor is the best" and talks about training with Machida.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H1xSl-vrrI&feature=related


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Cain, sharper striking, good speed, stronger. Good style to beat Emelianenko.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Embedded :thumbsup:


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Also, a lot of people on this site have the tendency to think certain results are impossible. A lot of people completely wrote off Cain against Nogueria and he destroyed him in one round.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

alizio said:


> how could you tell Cain wanted nothing to do with Nog on the ground?? He was handing Nog his ass standing, then as soon as Nog got dropped, he walked right around his guard and dropped 4 Abombs on his head.
> 
> Frank Mir wanted nothing to do with Nog on the ground.
> 
> ...



I dont see Cain in any aspect better then Fedor except the age and his wrestling is the only one that can be put a lil bit over fedors wrestling. 
but still fedor get hell lot of takedowns against world class wrestelers

fedors striking, ground n pound submission are all way better then cains and its a fact from what we have seen from both of them untill now.

edit: i forgot to say his striking speed, thouse hands fly so freaking fast.

it's logical that any fighter can be beaten, even by a lucky punch but if look at the overall no way is cain better


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## ZeroPRIDE (Apr 12, 2006)

alizio said:


> Cain is the 2nd most accurate striker in the UFC. According to last nights broadcast and UFC.com. close to 70% landed. Prob moved up last night considering Nog was blocking all his punches..... with his face.
> 
> never lost a round, doesnt get hit alot. sounds like another guy who got a ton more hype and love then him tbh


you said Cain is more accurate than Fedor. Prove it. I want links and stats.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

ZeroPRIDE said:


> you said Cain is more accurate than Fedor. Prove it. I want links and stats.


 sounds like alot of work, im not doing your research for you, ive already done enough and i know this is true. Prove that it isnt if you dont believe it.


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## ZeroPRIDE (Apr 12, 2006)

thanks. i now know your talking out your ass. If you knew such information it wouldnt take you 5 mins.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

ZeroPRIDE said:


> thanks. i now know your talking out your ass. If you knew such information it wouldnt take you 5 mins.


 Cain Valasquez has a 68% landing accuracy rating. If you took the 5 seconds to google it that it took to tell me i was talking outta my ass, you would know that.

I told ppl, im done schooling ppl on Cain Valasquez. You are shocked at that accuracy im sure, its 2nd highest in the UFC, above alot of guys with less fights in the UFC that ppl consider much better, more accurate strikers then Cain.

It is what is it. Cain routinely KOs ppl sparring and ppl are scared to spar with him. I can tell you this a million times, link a million articles saying the same thing and show you 8 fights of him destroying ppl. It doesnt seem to matter. So if ppl dont believe, dont believe.


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## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

ZeroPRIDE said:


> you said Cain is more accurate than Fedor. Prove it. I want links and stats.


That probably isn't strikes while standing, I'm presuming that his numbers sky-rocketed from hitting Rothwell a gazillion times after he took him down.


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

alizio said:


> he walked right around his guard and dropped 4 Abombs on his head.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Freiermuth said:


> That probably isn't strikes while standing, I'm presuming that his numbers sky-rocketed from hitting Rothwell a gazillion times after he took him down.


 legit comment. im pretty sure the stats are kept for total strikes landed/missed and not just standing. 

Even Cains standing strikes accuracy itself is very high on fightmetric but they only have a couple of his fights up.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

alizio said:


> sounds like alot of work, im not doing your research for you, ive already done enough and i know this is true. Prove that it isnt if you dont believe it.


Those stats would be completely impossible to compare with any kind of accuracy unless they had the same amount of fights. The more fights you have, probability dictates that your accuracy stats (strikes thrown v strikes landed) will go down. 

Cain with 8 fights vs Fedor with 30 fights, you can't compare their accuracy stats to each other. Granted, Cain's accuracy may be very high, but with only 8 fights under your belt, your stats will be skewed in comparison with somebody with 22 more fights then you. Statistical probability makes an 8 fight stats vs. 30 fight stats comparison really inaccurate. 

However, in all consideration, the stats for someone with less fights in comparison to someone with more, can also skew in a negative manner; The real bottom mathematical line, is Cain has 8 fights, Fedor has 30. It'd be like someone boasting Fedor has more wins, well duh, he's also had more fights. Compare Cain against another fighter with 8 fights and you'd have a more integral comparison, but you can't compare statistical data with any kind of accuracy when you've got 8 fights v 30 fights to draw statistical data from.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

VolcomX311 said:


> Those stats would be completely impossible to compare with any kind of accuracy unless they had the same amount of fights. The more fights you have, probability dictates that your accuracy stats (strikes thrown v strikes landed) will go down.
> 
> Cain with 8 fights vs Fedor with 30 fights, you can't compare their accuracy stats to each other. Granted, Cain's accuracy may be very high, but with only 8 fights under your belt, your stats will be skewed in comparison with somebody with 22 more fights then you. Statistical probability makes an 8 fight stats vs. 30 fight stats comparison really inaccurate.
> 
> However, in all consideration, the stats for someone with less fights in comparison to someone with more, can also skew in a negative manner; The real bottom mathematical line, is Cain has 8 fights, Fedor has 30. It'd be like someone boasting Fedor has more wins, well duh, he's also had more fights. Compare Cain against another fighter with 8 fights and you'd have a more integral comparison, but you can't compare statistical data with any kind of accuracy when you've got 8 fights v 30 fights to draw statistical data from.


 another legit point. i would mention it works both ways tho. a guy with 8 fights can have a horrible % compared to his "true" percentage aswell. I was just stating that he is more accurate right now, its true.

Cain throws ALOT of strikes tho, standing and on the ground, you would think his percentage really wouldnt be that high since he is so fast paced. The other high % guys are counter strikers like Machida and Anderson.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

alizio said:


> another legit point. *i would mention it works both ways tho.* a guy with 8 fights can have a horrible % compared to his "true" percentage aswell. I was just stating that he is more accurate right now, its true.
> 
> Cain throws ALOT of strikes tho, standing and on the ground, you would think his percentage really wouldnt be that high since he is so fast paced. The other high % guys are counter strikers like Machida and Anderson.


I mentioned that at the beginning of the third paragraph, because I wanted to be fair. I'm not really trying to make the argument of who's more accurate Cain or Fedor, I'm just saying you can't compare the two fighters stats based on the fact that their fight resumes are too great in variance.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

I don't think Cain could beat Fedor, nor even come close. Fedor has proven himself time and time again, while Cain is running the hype machine right now coming off a win over a washed up Nog, which I'd even be willing to argue was a fluke.

Kongo and Rothwell aren't even worth mentioning, IMO.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Alizio, 
you know your flying nut-bar on Cain puts my rear nutted-choke on Brock to shame. We need to poll who's the most adamant supporter of their fighter, Alizio-Cain vs Coldcall-Machida.


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## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

alizio said:


> legit comment. im pretty sure the stats are kept for total strikes landed/missed and not just standing.
> 
> Even Cains standing strikes accuracy itself is very high on fightmetric but they only have a couple of his fights up.


No doubt he is accurate and getting better.



VolcomX311 said:


> Alizio,
> you know your flying nut-bar on Cain puts my rear nutted-choke on Brock to shame. We need to poll who's the most adamant supporter of their fighter, Alizio-Cain vs Coldcall-Machida.


Don't forget Khov-JDS


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Cain would have as good of a chance at beating Fedor as Brock, or Carwin, or Mir. He's a top guy at HW right now, and he has a as good of a chance at beating Fedor as anyone else in the top of the HW division. With that said.. Fedor is better in every aspect except wrestling, and Fedor has fought very solid wrestlers and has beaten them quite easily. 

Style wise, it's a fun fight, but it's nothing that is more important as Brock, or Mir, or Carwin, or any other top HW. Fedor is without a doubt the #1 heavyweight in the world, and many consider him the greatest mixed martial artist of all time, so he's always going to be a heavy favorite, and rightfully so.

So.. fun fight, but Fedor would TKO/KO him.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> Cain would have as good of a chance at beating Fedor as Brock, or Carwin, or Mir.


I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but why would you even put Carwin in the lineup you just mentioned? Carwin hasn't really accomplished anything, other than defeating a "one hit wonder" Gabriel Gonzaga.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but why would you even put Carwin in the lineup you just mentioned? Carwin hasn't really accomplished anything, other than defeating a "one hit wonder" Gabriel Gonzaga.


but his power is amazing. I've watched his fight with Gonzaga today again, the KO was brutal.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

UrbanBounca said:


> I don't think Cain could beat Fedor, nor even come close. Fedor has proven himself time and time again, while Cain is running the hype machine right now coming off a win over a washed up Nog, which I'd even be willing to argue was a fluke.
> 
> Kongo and Rothwell aren't even worth mentioning, IMO.


 
I dont know Cain can beat JDS and Im sure Mir would beat him.....FTR...I think fightmetric is bullshit, it DOES not seem accurate to me what so ever and when you watch the fights based off how judges score the fightmetric stats I have seen usually dont add up....


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

The_Senator said:


> but his power is amazing. I've watched his fight with Gonzaga today again, the KO was brutal.


Strength alone doesn't make an elite level fighter.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

UrbanBounca said:


> I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but why would you even put Carwin in the lineup you just mentioned? Carwin hasn't really accomplished anything, other than defeating a "one hit wonder" Gabriel Gonzaga.


Carwin has good wrestling much like Cain, as well as some serious, serious power. Other than Nog, who has seen better days, Cain hasn't really beaten anyone of notice, much like Carwin. 

They are both top guys in the UFC at HW, and have similar styles, except Carwin has more power in his hands.


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

I personally dunno why so many have voted Fedor by Submission ... the fight would stay standing just like the Nog fight did, except Fedor's standup is better than Nog's - this would be a fight won on the feet. I chose Fedor via T/KO for the record.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Indestructibl3 said:


> I personally dunno why so many have voted Fedor by Submission ... the fight would stay standing just like the Nog fight did, except Fedor's standup is better than Nog's - this would be a fight won on the feet. I chose Fedor via T/KO for the record.


I chose TKO but I disagree this would be a standup fight. It probably would be for a while but after Fedor tagged Cain with one of his swooping punches Cain would take it to the ground.


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## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

I voted TKO, but could def see a Tim Sylvia type situation where Fedor rocks Cain and finishes with a merciful sub....which Cain should look into because his last few opponents looked like they could have used some mercy.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> Carwin has good wrestling much like Cain, as well as some serious, serious power. Other than Nog, who has seen better days, Cain hasn't really beaten anyone of notice, much like Carwin.
> 
> They are both top guys in the UFC at HW, and have similar styles, except Carwin has more power in his hands.


That's exactly the problem. Why the hype? Carwin may have awesome power, but he hasn't fought anyone to prove *anything*! Carwin at least has a win over a top HW, Nog, but there is still the argument it may have been a fluke.

As far as I'm concerned, you can legitimately argue that Cain is a top HW, but Carwin? No, I don't think so.


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

UrbanBounca said:


> CAIN at least has a win over a top HW, Nog, but there is still the argument it may have been a fluke.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, you can legitimately argue that Cain is a top HW, but Carwin? No, I don't think so.


fixed and i don't think it was a fluke it was just a bad gameplan by nog unless you meant GG against carwin which i would also say it was not a fluke carwin has SERIOUS POWER and doesn't just go looking for haymakers the shots he hit GG and chris (whatever his name is)with where simple one,two's so you can't say they were lucky shots a lucky shot is when someone is swinging for the fences and lands one and carwin has good wrestling


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

UrbanBounca said:


> That's exactly the problem. Why the hype? Carwin may have awesome power, but he hasn't fought anyone to prove *anything*! Carwin at least has a win over a top HW, Nog, but there is still the argument it may have been a fluke.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, you can legitimately argue that Cain is a top HW, but Carwin? No, I don't think so.


Carwin is undefeated, has finished every single one of his fights in the first round. He put Gonzaga away in 60 seconds. Say what you will about Gonzaga, but the guy has a major chin and is a tough, well rounded fighter.

Carwin's general record is the same as Cain's in the way of comparision of what they have accomplished in the sport, exept for Cain's win over Nog. 

If you go 11-0 and finish all your fights in the first round, including Gonzaga, then you're definitely an up and coming star in the HW division. Cain is the same, up and coming and is on a roll.

They are in the same group.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

UrbanBounca said:


> That's exactly the problem. Why the hype? Carwin may have awesome power, but he hasn't fought anyone to prove *anything*! Carwin at least has a win over a top HW, Nog, but there is still the argument it may have been a fluke.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, you can legitimately argue that Cain is a top HW, but Carwin? No, I don't think so.


 a fluke?? haha. Yes, he fluked his way into winning every exchange and fluked his way into brutal leg kicks that forced Nog to move in and close the distance and once Nog did he fluked his way to a 3 punch Combo, fluked out and walked around Nogs guard and dropped 4 flukey punches on him.

God MMA forums are full of ridiculous ppl that cant admit to being wrong. If Nog wasnt beaten there he would have got it anyways, only a fool didnt see it coming after the first 3 or 4 exchanges, Nog was eating punches and kicks each time and landing nothing.

But let me guess, in your magical world it was all fluke?? Must be nice to justify any arguement with fairytale world delusions.

As for Nog not being the same or w/e.... a few days ago he was a unquestionable top 5, now your saying Cain has to beat guys lower ranked (JDS or Carwin) to prove he is for real?? haha 

Guess coming into the UFC after 2 fights, going 6-0 and beating 3 top 20 guys in a row means nothing.

But Mir beating the same Nog, Kongo and taking a beating from Lesnar and getting a "fluke" sub and then an all out beatdown makes him completely legit??

Or is it cuz he beat Big Timmy and the Godly Wes Simms?? Let me know.

JDS gets your respect but hasnt faced or beat a top 5. Ask JDS if he thinks beating Nog is nothing cuz Nog is a joke now. See what he says?? Prob laugh in your face like i am.

For Carson. How are Carwin and Cain the same?? Cain has beaten 2 guys the calibre of GG (Kongo and Rothwell) aswell as a legit top 5 and former champion??


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Cain struggled with Kongo, and Rothwell, although decent, is not a top fighter, or even going to be considered top, ever. Cain's only win that he has "over" Carwin is Nog.

One fight difference is not much, especially when Carwin has looked more impressive in all his fights compared to Cain, except for, again, the Nog fight. Carwin finishes all his fights in the first, he has more power, solid wrestling, etc, etc.

I know you love Cain, but he's not some proven, amazing figure in MMA, he's still up and coming the same way Carwin is, both of them are in the same group of rising stars.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> Cain struggled with Kongo, and Rothwell, although decent, is not a top fighter, or even going to be considered top, ever. Cain's only win that he has "over" Carwin is Nog.
> 
> One fight difference is not much, especially when Carwin has looked more impressive in all his fights compared to Cain, except for, again, the Nog fight. Carwin finishes all his fights in the first, he has more power, solid wrestling, etc, etc.
> 
> I know you love Cain, but he's not some proven, amazing figure in MMA, he's still up and coming the same way Carwin is, both of them are in the same group of rising stars.


 agree to disagree and u are really missing the boat, Cain is an athlete, Carwin is just a big dude with alot of power. Cain is good at alot of things. But time will do the real talking.

8-0 7tko's. He is a finisher, make no doubt. Kongo is hard to finish and the ref prob shoulda bailed him out, look at him at the end of that fight on his knees. He got broken, make no mistake, it may not have been a "finish" but that man was finished in every way.

BTW you dismiss Rothwell but i think Ben is more well rounded and higher ranked then Kongo, correct?? If they fought i would take Big Ben. JMO of course. I like Kongo aswell but his ground... Ben has good ground. He looked like a fool because Cain is the man. Take a look at Ben vs AA or Big Country for a better idea of what his game is like.

You are talking about him like he is some prospect. He just demolished Big Nog. There isnt much more Cain could do to show you he is the truth. Oh well. Time will change your opinion im sure


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Lol I know you love Cain, but trust me, he's no more impressive than Carwin at this point.

Stating Carwin is an athelete? Jesus, really? That right there shows your complete bias towards Cain. 

Come on, Cain is not some amazing fighter that has proven himself as one of the best in the world, he's an up and coming guy who has less fights than the majority of other prospects, with only his win over Nog being better than the rest. He's in the same group as Carwin and Brock, all up and coming guys who have little experience and are all trying to get that title of best guy in the UFC HW division, none of them have lost (except Brock against Mir).

Cain isn't a major star or a major fighter yet, he only has 8 fights for Christ sakes, and only 1 fight that shows he definitely have the potential to really shine at HW, and that is Nog.

The Cain hype after the Nog fight is amazing.


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## fullonshred (Feb 23, 2010)

Fedor, any way he chooses, nine fights out of ten.


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

Cain is more proven in UFC than Carwin. Both undefeated and rising stars of UFC. So they are in same category from this point of view.

Cain seems to have better talent and overall skill but we dont know much about Carwin - He seems to be hard working machine and very focused. 

For me great step for Cain was Nog. For Carwin is same with Mir. Im kinda objective fan - except Lesnar. If JDS,Carwin,Cain,Mir will be champs -> me happy raise01:


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

alizio said:


> Cain is an athlete, Carwin is just a big dude with alot of power.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Both Cain and Carwin have crazy power, there's no doubt about it. 

The difference between the two, aside from size, is that Carwin's technique is at best suspect. Let's take a look at their results from their most recent bouts:

1. in the standup, Carwin was getting tagged badly by Gonzaga, and his defense standing seemed to be non-existent. 

2. on the ground, Carwin was able to scramble to his feet after a Gonzaga takedown, but it looks like he relied more on sheer strength than on great technique. 

Cain on the other hand, Cain's standup looked exceptionally sharp against Nogueira. And it sounded even better. I don't know why people don't mention this, but the sound of Cain's strikes were just astonishing. The 'pop' with every strike and kick resonated through the building. This was especially noticeable during Cain's KO punch to end the fight. 

Cain is the real deal. Carwin needs to develop some technique in order to challenge Brock. Right now, his power has carried him, but you wonder if it's only a matter of time before he's exposed. I'm rooting for him against Mur though, so we will see. 



Michael Carson said:


> Lol I know you love Cain, but trust me, he's no more impressive than Carwin at this point.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Cain vs Nog made me realize how good Kongo would be if he had decent wrestling. Cain is running through everyone yet Kongo was destroying him and making him go for desperation takedowns. Don't get me wrong, Cain beat Kongo I'm just saying with a half decent ground game, Kongo would be a BEAST in the HW division.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

ok i get it Carson, beating the 2nd best HW of all time isnt enough to "prove yourself" these days, right?

Yet u name all the top HWs as unproven but Brock is proven cuz he can beat up Mir over and over again???

Or nobody is proven but Fedor?? Which is it, im curious??

If Brock is "proven" in ur opinion , plz tell me why?? Cuz he beat Randy??? Randy got schooled by Nog tho and you said a win over the 2nd best HW of all time and currently ranked top 5 means nothing??

I dont get ur thinking, u basically discredit the entire division and shit all over Nog. The 2nd best ever. If beating the 2nd best HW ever when he was still ranked in the top 5 coming off a win over probably the 3rd greatest HW ever....

In the end, i respect u and like u but....

Cool Story, Bro!!

Cain doesnt deserve to fight Fedor!! But Rogers, Werdum and Overeem?? Line em up!!! Nevermind the fact Cain has bigger wins then all of them.

Plz pay attention, Carwin is SLOW!!! VERY SLOW!!! Cain moves like a MW or LHW. Its scary. Its not even close.

The only thing Carwin has over Cain is muscles. Thats it. If you cant tell that yet, wow.


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

michelangelo said:


> Both Cain and Carwin have crazy power, there's no doubt about it.
> 
> The difference between the two, aside from size, is that Carwin's technique is at best suspect. Let's take a look at their results from their most recent bouts:
> 
> ...


cain got tooled by kongo worse than anybody else who faced him and nog just made cain look alot better than he is and everybody seems to forget than randy was out striking nog in just about every exchange against nog it's just that nog had more power and dropped him but cain does have good stand up but kongo tooled him and he is only a mid level striker


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

joe davola said:


> cain got tooled by kongo worse than anybody else who faced him and nog just made cain look alot better than he is and everybody seems to forget than randy was out striking nog in just about every exchange against nog it's just that nog had more power and dropped him but cain does have good stand up but kongo tooled him and he is only a mid level striker


 Plz go watch the Kongo vs Cain fight again, your hate and lies is ridiculous.

Cain won every standing exchange except two. The entire fight. Get a clue. Talk reality and come back to me.

http://www.fightmetric.com/fights/Velasquez-Kongo.html

oh yea, Kongo really owned him standing the entire time..... if you want to talk actual reality, let me know, until then, ill let u live in that make believe world. Kongo barely got off, nevermind owned anything.

Kongo is a Muay Thai World Champion. Cains plan WASNT to stand with him. I dont see why it would be. I dont see the point your trying to make as i said, Fujita caught Fedor once and he is very medicore, does that mean a medicore striker will catch Fedor all the time??

Rampage couldnt KO Jardine and Jardine has a "glass jaw". Does that mean Rampage has no power??

Ppl really make up alot of crap when they dont like a guy.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

alizio said:


> ok i get it Carson, beating the 2nd best HW of all time isnt enough to "prove yourself" these days, right?
> 
> Yet u name all the top HWs as unproven but Brock is proven cuz he can beat up Mir over and over again???
> 
> ...


Umm, when did I ever say Brock was proven? I said Cain was in the same group as Carwin and BROCK. All 3 of them have very little experience and are all still question marks in the wide rankings in the HW division. No one knows which one will turn out to be the big dog in the UFC. Brock is the champion, but who is to say Carwin or Cain wouldn't be champion as well had they been given the same fights? All 3 of them are in the same group of "up and coming" guys who are rising stars and all of the world of MMA is waiting to see which one truly takes control.

Cain does not move like a MW, don't even try to go there.

Nog WAS the second best ever. Everyone and their mom agrees that Nog hasn't been the same for a while now. People were saying this with his first fight in the UFC, and people are STILL saying it. It's not a new thing, Nog is passed what he once was. The Nog win was impressive, it's the only win Cain has that could possibly make anyone think he's anything more than and up and coming guy like JDS, Carwin, Brock, etc, and the win isn't so impressive that it puts him above the guys, he's in the same group as they are.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> Umm, when did I ever say Brock was proven? I said Cain was in the same group as Carwin and BROCK. All 3 of them have very little experience and are all still question marks in the wide rankings in the HW division. No one knows which one will turn out to be the big dog in the UFC. Brock is the champion, but who is to say Carwin or Cain wouldn't be champion as well had they been given the same fights? All 3 of them are in the same group of "up and coming" guys who are rising stars and all of the world of MMA is waiting to see which one truly takes control.
> 
> Cain does not move like a MW, don't even try to go there.
> 
> Nog WAS the second best ever. Everyone and their mom agrees that Nog hasn't been the same for a while now. People were saying this with his first fight in the UFC, and people are STILL saying it. It's not a new thing, Nog is passed what he once was. The Nog win was impressive, it's the only win Cain has that could possibly make anyone think he's anything more than and up and coming guy like JDS, Carwin, Brock, etc, and the win isn't so impressive that it puts him above the guys, he's in the same group as they are.


 u name all the top guys in the division as unproven so in your opinion only Fedor is proven and not "washed up"???

How would Cain beating a bunch of guys you just called unproven, make him proven?? You will just say "well he beat Brock, but Brock WASNT proven"...

w/e, makes no sense and you are trying to make it make sense. The way you tell it, u can only beat Fedor to prove yourself as a HW. Results be damned if you say somebody is over the hill, they must be. Nevermind if they only had 1 loss in the UFC and held the belt just a few fights ago.

"everybody and their mom knows Nog is washed up".... go check the pre fight talk.... yea,..... everybody knew....:sarcastic12: you seem like a 20/20 kinda guy, looking back, yea u knew, but before hand... :sarcastic12:

done with this conversation, not that i dont like u, but it makes little sense.

Nog beat Timmy before Fedor did... but for Fedor u say its a proven big win... for Nog... washed up.... so many unreasonable things, biased things, doesnt make any sense. if u are top 5, u are a top guy. if u are beating top 5 guys u are definately a top guy. regardless of w/e nonsense reasons u wanna say he isnt, the rest of the community knows he is. Nog just came off a win over Randy who was one fight removed from being UFC HW Champion and also a top 5. You can discredit them both all u want, it doesnt change a damn thing. You discredit the number 2 and 3 HWs of all time like its nothing. Hard to take u serious, nobody is good enough to be "proven" to u, so who cares??

Funny thing is, if Cain beat Fedor ppl like u would say "thats not the PRIME Fedor" etc etc... lol cant win no matter what.

The rankings will reflect that Cain is an elite HW on EVERY MMA SITE IN THE WORLD and he will be ranked above all the guys you just said he isnt above. Guess those ppl dont know much either, "Everybody and their mom" seem to be the guys to hit up for knowledge.


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

alizio said:


> Plz pay attention, Carwin is SLOW!!! VERY SLOW!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWkrP1JQbHM

you fail once again boy


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

alizio said:


> Plz go watch the Kongo vs Cain fight again, your hate and lies is ridiculous.
> 
> Cain won every standing exchange except two. The entire fight. Get a clue. Talk reality and come back to me.
> 
> ...


umm i have said i like cain maybe you should look at my posts and the MAJOR difference in fedor being rocked by fujita is that they where in an exchange while cain walked straight into kongo and cain only won the exchanges after he grinded kongo down not when he was in full effect as we all know what happened there


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

joe davola said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWkrP1JQbHM
> 
> you fail once again boy


 wow did u really just post that video, somebody plz Embed?? haha u think his hands are fast?? u think his boxing is good?? Seriously got me laughing, what horrible sloppy boxing vs a complete can that doesnt seem to be able to punch yet still lands a few on Carwin.... lol seropisl;y jajajahahahaha wow man, i needed that laugh to know ur just ******* with me, ok cool 

Cool Story, Bro.

Somebody plz put a video of Cain vs Nog up so he can understand speed... the difference. The sound of Cains punches. The crispness and in and out. The leg kicks and the smoothness. Cain is SMOOTH and fast. Carwin is sloppy and slow. I dont know how much of a novice u have to be not to notice.

Somebody above talked about "the sound of Cains punches" sounds like somebody that knows boxing quite a bit. That sound is very telling. Hell dont even watch Cain, just listen vs Nog.

If u seriously cant tell the difference, u have no clue about boxing whatsoever.. i dont mean that to be rude but it is seriously day and night.

Seriously i should take that Carwin video to my boxing gym to show young guys how not to throw crisp, tight punches. LOL Carwin almost falls down a couple times throwing those bombs..... no doubt he has power tho.


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

alizio said:


> wow did u really just post that video, somebody plz Embed?? haha u think his hands are fast?? u think his boxing is good?? Seriously got me laughing, what horrible sloppy boxing vs a complete can that doesnt seem to be able to punch yet still lands a few on Carwin.... lol seropisl;y jajajahahahaha wow man, i needed that laugh to know ur just ******* with me, ok cool
> 
> Cool Story, Bro.
> 
> ...


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

joe davola said:


> alizio said:
> 
> 
> > wow did u really just post that video, somebody plz Embed?? haha u think his hands are fast?? u think his boxing is good?? Seriously got me laughing, what horrible sloppy boxing vs a complete can that doesnt seem to be able to punch yet still lands a few on Carwin.... lol seropisl;y jajajahahahaha wow man, i needed that laugh to know ur just ******* with me, ok cool
> ...


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

alizio said:


> joe davola said:
> 
> 
> > yes, his handspeed is very slow, as your video clearly showed. His footwork is sloppy and altho he is tremendously powerful he doesnt box well at all.
> ...


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

blah im argueing too hard, too late. edit the flame and stuff, apoligies too

time will prove who is right, im not posting about Cain until his upcoming match is announced. keep believing he sucks, keep the lines good 

btw, Watch Cain vs Mocco and Konrad, he holds his own. Both are two of the GOAT. Way better then Lesnar nevermind Carwin. Cain is no joke.


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## Scorch (Apr 2, 2007)

Nah, Fedor is king. He'd win.


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

alizio said:


> God i hate educating ppl.... forget the boxing, u seem to admit Cains is better. Carwin has alot of work to do there.
> 
> Wrestling?? MMA or NCAA?? Cain is better. Cain beat guys like Steve Mocco and Cole Konrad and was ranked top 5 in div 1. The difference between the top 10 guys is really minute at that level. Cain was also undersized. Either way, he is way better wrestler then Shane in MMA and NCAA and he is smaller, faster, more agile with better standup.
> 
> ...


i never said carwin was better than cain i was just correcting you in the many ingnorant statements you make 

and carwin is a athlete like lesnar he is not some big dude if you paid attention to anything besideds cains cock than you would know 


and i feel sorry for the people you apparrently "educated" as it would be the most bias and ignorant education one could recieve and you mentioned wrestling when i never mentioned anything about wrestling you should stop arguing with yourself


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

joe davola said:


> i never said carwin was better than cain i was just correcting you in the many ingnorant statements you make
> 
> and carwin is a athlete like lesnar he is not some big dude if you paid attention to anything besideds cains cock than you would know
> 
> ...


 blah, u didnt even see the nastier post i wrote haha  i apoligize Joe, its late. Have a nice day. Im not gonna argue about Cain anymore


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Fedor should get a Russian Pride tat and bring Pride to Russia by KO'ing Cain...

I see Fedor as a better Russian version.... With more experience in every aspect.

And ive ALWAYS liked Cain, and i am happy to see him mentioned with guys like Fedor but i dont see him winning...

Like ive said many times.... Cain needs his own weight class to be a dominate champ... I don't see him controlling Brocks Mass and Power being as big as he is. Now does that count Cain out completely of coarse not!

But is Cain going to be able to use all his great Talents? Of Coarse not!

The second Cain throws one punch he better be ready to stop a gorilla from taking him down and keeping it there....

If Cain can do what Cotoure started at this stage in Brocks career then he has a chance...

But i don't see anyone including Cotoure right now being able to even stand up from Brock alone control the ground....

If Cain gets Brock he better spend all his time getting some Muscle/Weight


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

Its interesting because people think Cain is overvalued and Fedor is undervalued. I was in the camp thinking that no chance Big Nog loses, because even if Cain knocked him down, Nog's BJJ would get him a sub. Not quite. If you look at the Pride Nog and the Nog now, he is slimmer and quicker in pride, same for Cro Cop actually. I don't know if they were juicing or were just younger? LOL.

Anyway, what is intriguing about Fedor is that his hand speed and punching power is super deceptive and while he is not cut like Lesnar or Carwin, he is also in deceptively good shape. Ask Sylvia, Arlsovsi, Grim...his punches come quickly and they are brutal, HEAVY. Fedor is the definition of heavy hands. BUT that is not his strongest suit, he is the BEST ***** PRACTITIONER IN THE WORLD. That is just plain nasty. Lastly, he is super stoic in that ring, does not get overly emotional (are you listening Brock?) and he truly respects the sport.

Does that mean he would walk through Cain? No, Cain is younger and may be the better athlete, I have definitely underestimated him and I think he is the 2nd best HW in the UFC, but personally I think JDS is better. I think JDS has some of those Fedor qualities, deadly striking and he is a black belt in BJJ. I think over the next two years we will find out who is great and who isn't. But in terms of JDS, his win over Werdum was super impressive IMO. Werdum is WORLD CLASS BJJ and a world class MMA dude and JDS WALKED THROUGH HIM. 

So I'll leave it at this out of all the HWs in the world, I think Fedor right now would have the toughest time with JDS. But would not be shocked to see a Lesnar or a Cain beat him, especially in the HW division where one punch can make such a huge difference.


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## Ricardinho (Jun 6, 2009)

I like Cain but don't be stupid, Fedoris the best!


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

I'm getting really annoyed from all these Fedor threads..:sarcastic12:

I truly believe, that Fedor can be beat by a lot of guys in the UFC even outside of the HW devision. Just take a look! 

I'm pretty sure that Anderson, Lyoto and Shogun all are able to defeat him. When these guys meet inside the Octagon it's 50/50 chance for either one to take the victory. 

Even Cain and JDS have chances agianst the so invincible Fedor :confused05: 

And of course Brock, even though I see him losing based on experince. In 2 years it's probably an even shot as well or Brock is even a bigger favourite.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> I'm getting really annoyed from all these Fedor threads..:sarcastic12:
> 
> I truly believe, that Fedor can be beat by a lot of guys in the UFC even outside of the HW devision. Just take a look!
> 
> ...


I respectfully disagree in terms of A. Silva, Rua and Machida.

Fedor is actually bigger than all of them so his striking would hurt a lot more and I don't think any of those three would be able to counter his *****. As far as HWs go, time will tell. Bigger persons than Fedor could give him a hard time potentially.


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## ZeroPRIDE (Apr 12, 2006)

alizio said:


> Cain Valasquez has a 68% landing accuracy rating. If you took the 5 seconds to google it that it took to tell me i was talking outta my ass, you would know that.
> 
> Rant defending Cain.....



You are the one who posted it, so its up to YOU to SUPPORT it with FACTS. Simple forum logic. 

You pick 16th in the draft BTW.


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## Johnni G (Dec 2, 2009)

The_Senator said:


> I think so too, by TKO probably


Then why make a thread where you state the opposite? :S


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> Then why make a thread where you state the opposite? :S


The name of this thread is for the fans who can say, "I think Cain is better than Fedor". I knew that some people think so, and I wanted to see how many.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Samborules said:


> I respectfully disagree in terms of A. Silva, Rua and Machida.
> 
> Fedor is actually bigger than all of them so his striking would hurt a lot more and I don't think any of those three would be able to counter his *****. As far as HWs go, time will tell. Bigger persons than Fedor could give him a hard time potentially.


Size doesn't really matter here. Fedor is what 230-240?? I guess he is about that size, just a very small HW who could easily make LHW. Lyoto isn't a big LHW, but he can easily fight him at 220-230 or even more comfortabely. Same with Rua! Anderson however is smaller, but as we saw recently, he can also bulck up to 210 and more and be comfortbale at this weight. Anderson actually is a LHW, it's a shame that he fights at MW with his body natural.

So size isn't really an issue here!

Lyoto for example trained in Sumo for years and won tournements undersized against really big guys. If anybody then he knows how to keep this fight standing. I doupt Fedor could take him down. And Lyoto has the striking adavantage wich will win him the fight on the feet.

Rua doesn't have these outstanding TDD, but he has a very legit chance as well. Same with Silva very shity TDD wich could coast him that fight against Fedor, but if he is able to keep the fight standing it's quickly over for Fedor.


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> And of course Brock, even though I see him losing based on experince. In 2 years it's probably an even shot as well or Brock is even a bigger favourite.


thats complete garbage experience has nothing to do with it, when people hear brock being labelled a freak athlete they just think it means he moves fast for his size and is really powerful granted those are quality attributes but the real meaning behind it is that he picks up anything really fast
which you can see in the course from the first mir fight to the herring fight up until now 

experience is not really a factor against brock i don't see fedor subbing him the only reason murr subbed him was because he placed murrs legs in the right spot and he capatalised on it, it was murr subbing brock as much as it was brock subbing brock but fedor could tko him standing but in the fight against fedor i doubt the gameplan would involve standing for longer than he needs to be


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## drey2k (Jul 9, 2009)

Lets see...

Fedor has way better stand up, and is better on the ground + has awesome submissions...


hmm...


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Size doesn't really matter here. Fedor is what 230-240?? I guess he is about that size, just a very small HW who could easily make LHW. Lyoto isn't a big LHW, but he can easily fight him at 220-230 or even more comfortabely. Same with Rua! Anderson however is smaller, but as we saw recently, he can also bulck up to 210 and more and be comfortbale at this weight. Anderson actually is a LHW, it's a shame that he fights at MW with his body natural.
> 
> So size isn't really an issue here!
> 
> ...



I 100% disagree, I think you overrate Machida + Rua's striking and underrate Fedor. You give Fedor a smaller guy, he will crowd him, take a punch and give one back with much more force. Then in a clinch its take down, sub. Did you see Fedor vs. Mousasi exhibition? The size difference is major. A good 25-30 pounds. Lutter had little trouble taking down Silva, if Fedor did it...its over. 

Usually I am in the same boat as you Bobby, but not this time.


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

Cain's only 27, i doubt he could now. In 3-4 years he could definitely win. now, i doubt.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

joe davola said:


> ...but the real meaning behind it is that he picks up anything really fast which you can see in the course from the first mir fight to the herring fight up until now.


Hold on a minute. Theres no real evidence that Brock is any better at anything over that time. Im not saying he hasn't improved, but we've not seen anywhere near enough to be conclusive about it. What exactly do you see that's so much better?


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Samborules said:


> I 100% disagree, I think you overrate Machida + Rua's striking and underrate Fedor. You give Fedor a smaller guy, he will crowd him, take a punch and give one back with much more force. Then in a clinch its take down, sub. Did you see Fedor vs. Mousasi exhibition? The size difference is major. A good 25-30 pounds. Lutter had little trouble taking down Silva, if Fedor did it...its over.
> 
> Usually I am in the same boat as you Bobby, but not this time.


No I truly believe that Fedor's striking is NOT on the same level with Anderson, Rua or Lyoto. I give him the advantage against every HW, but thats why I wanna see him fight against the those 3 LHW. 

You really think that Fedor would just take a punch from somebody like Anderson and keep going?? He would need to do everything to avoid getting hit against all of them. He would definitely lose a striking match against Silva, Belfort, Lyoto and even Rua! Fedor is such a great fighter, because he is very well rounded similar to GSP and Lyoto, thats what wins him fights. But he is not on the striking level as the guys mentioned above.

And you really believe he can just take down somebody like Lyoto by will?? No way! He might get one Takedown in the later rounds if at all.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> No I truly believe that Fedor's striking is NOT on the same level with Anderson, Rua or Lyoto. I give him the advantage against every HW, but thats why I wanna see him fight against the those 3 LHW.
> 
> You really think that Fedor would just take a punch from somebody like Anderson and keep going?? He would need to do everything to avoid getting hit against all of them. He would definitely lose a striking match against Silva, Belfort, Lyoto and even Rua! Fedor is such a great fighter, because he is very well rounded similar to GSP and Lyoto, thats what wins him fights. But he is not on the striking level as the guys mentioned above.
> 
> And you really believe he can just take down somebody like Lyoto by will?? No way! He might get one Takedown in the later rounds if at all.


Silva fights at 215 maybe? Fedor at around 240, thats a big advantage, I do not think Silva can KO him with one strike, no. But I think if Fedor hits Silva square with one shot he would pulverize him. Its just a big weight advantage. I agree that Fedor would try to avoid taking a straight right hand on the chin but he would get inside quickly like Lutter did and his strength advantage you have to agree would be considerable.

Against Machida, the counter puncher? IDK, I think Fedor again would use his weight/strength advantage. I think Mousasi is about the same size as Machida/Rua and in their exhibition, Fedor looked a lot thicker in terms of his back and shoulders. See the exhibition on YouTube and just look at the difference in size. I think a smaller man fighting Fedor is asking for trouble because you are in his proverbial wheelhouse in terms of ***** and we can agree that he is the best in the world at it.

What gives Fedor issue are lanky dudes like Arlovsi and Rogers, they are big with a long reach and can pepper Fedor's face with jabs and punches. But if he has one punch KO power to KO those big dudes and guys like Sylvia, what do you think would happen when a heavy handed 240 pounder hits a 215 pounder?


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Samborules said:


> Silva fights at 215 maybe? Fedor at around 240, thats a big advantage, I do not think Silva can KO him with one strike, no. But I think if Fedor hits Silva square with one shot he would pulverize him. Its just a big weight advantage. I agree that Fedor would try to avoid taking a straight right hand on the chin but he would get inside quickly like Lutter did and his strength advantage you have to agree would be considerable.
> 
> Against Machida, the counter puncher? IDK, I think Fedor again would use his weight/strength advantage. I think Mousasi is about the same size as Machida/Rua and in their exhibition, Fedor looked a lot thicker in terms of his back and shoulders. See the exhibition on YouTube and just look at the difference in size. I think a smaller man fighting Fedor is asking for trouble because you are in his proverbial wheelhouse in terms of ***** and we can agree that he is the best in the world at it.
> 
> What gives Fedor issue are lanky dudes like Arlovsi and Rogers, they are big with a long reach and can pepper Fedor's face with jabs and punches. But if he has one punch KO power to KO those big dudes and guys like Sylvia, what do you think would happen when a heavy handed 240 pounder hits a 215 pounder?


But you can't compare the likes of Rogers, Arlovski and Sylvia with the guys I mentioned! Thats a whole different level of skill. I would say another planet! Can you imagine what Anderson would do that somebody like Frank Mir? I wouldn't even give Mir a singel round against Silva. 

Silva can bulck up to 230! I know he probably would not feel comfortable at this weight, but he doesn't need to go there. 210-220 is totally enough! Somebody like Lyoto or Rua, yes these guys can go up to 220-230 and still feel great at this weight. So I don't see a weight advanatge for Fedor, but I know that he is as strong as a 300 lbs guy, thats true!

Well Fedor's ***** against Lyoto's Sumo than!

I know that Fedor hit's very very hard, but do you really believe that he could land a left like he did against Rogars (who can barely move inside the cage) against Silva, Lyoto or Rua?? I doupt that and believe that everyone I mentioned would pick him apart in a striking match. Fedor's weapon is his whole body, all the tools he has wich could win him all those fights. But all the HW's would have lesser chances against him than the LHW i mentioned with the exception of Brock.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one



Which is great, because thats why MMA is so cool


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

One fighter at HW who I feel is up there with A.Silva, Rua and Machida in the best pound for pound strikers is Alistair Overeem, just because he has not been fighting in the US, I think a lot of people do not realise this but he is in the best shape and form of his entire career.

I can't wait for him to return to SF, I could be proven wrong because Fedor is full of surprises but I think he will put a stop to Fedors run when he returns, I am looking more forward to that match up than anything the UFC has to offer right now including another Brock vs Mir rematch. In fact I would sooner see Overeem fight Fedor than anyone at UFC, thats how high I rate the guy.

If Fedor can out strike Overeem (although I dont even think he will try to be honest, I think he will look for a win on the ground) then that would in my eyes prove he is the best striker in MMA, atm I rate is striking very highly but agree with Bobby and don't think he is in the top 5 pound for pound strikers in MMA


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

in my eyes the guy fedor should avoid is shogun rua

he would give him the fight of his life


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Samborules said:


> I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one
> 
> 
> 
> Which is great, because thats why MMA is so cool


So True! Thats why we love this sport 



Rusko said:


> in my eyes the guy fedor should avoid is shogun rua
> 
> he would give him the fight of his life


All the guys I mentioned, not only Rua!


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> in my eyes the guy fedor should avoid is shogun rua
> 
> he would give him the fight of his life


When Shogun was asked, "Who is the best fighter?" he said that Fedor is. I don't think that much has changed since then - Rua is still Rua and Fedor is still Fedor. Their skills are still where they need to be, even though, they're fighting in different organization. And Shogun's latest fights weren't more impressive than Fedor's. Fedor quickly destroyed Sylvia, Arlovski and Rogers and Rua barely beat Coleman, then knocked out Liddell and officially lost to Machida and was never close to finishing that fight, but was never close to losing via KO/TKO/SUB either. So if there are some advantages I just don't see them, especially if Fedor will want to take it to the ground ASAP.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

The_Senator said:


> When Shogun was asked, "Who is the best fighter?" he said that Fedor is. I don't think that much has changed since then - Rua is still Rua and Fedor is still Fedor. Their skills are still where they need to be, even though, they're fighting in different organization. And Shogun's latest fights weren't more impressive than Fedor's. Fedor quickly destroyed Sylvia, Arlovski and Rogers and Rua barely beat Coleman, then knocked out Liddell and officially lost to Machida and was never close to finishing that fight, but was never close to losing via KO/TKO/SUB either. So if there are some advantages I just don't see them, especially if Fedor will want to take it to the ground ASAP.


I tend to agree. Based on Rua's last performance with Machida (though a good one), doesn't make me say, "watch out Fedor."


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I never understood in lower weight classes having some sort of advantage when fighting Fedor.

If Fedor were to fight say Machida or Shogun, and get his arms wrapped around them, they would be in some serious, serious trouble. Fedor grabs guys much larger than he is and toss them around the cage like little girls. He'd fling Shogun and Machida around the cage quite easily, and he has a great grappling game, he's bigger, stronger, and heavier. Neither Shogun or Machida has the power to rock Fedor, and Fedor is fast, he'd be more than able to get his hands on either of them at some point, fling them to the ground, and put and end to it. Also, he has some of the hardest hands in all of MMA, he'd drop either of them with a good clean shot.

There are weight classes for a reason, people.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

Well, I guess when someone mentions Anderson, Machida or Shogun they expect a flashy first round KO/TKO, but how many guys have been defeated in the first round by all three lately? Fedor is no Forrest Griffin and I'm sure he'd be perfectly able to avoid being caught in the first round and take it to the ground afterwards where he'd have significant advantage. It would be pretty lame to expect Fedor keeping it standing the whole fight.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

nevermind Fedor, Cain would smash all 3 of them aswell. who cares about those matchups?? :confused03:

crazy to think the best HWs cant beat Fedor but a LHW is gonna gain weight and do it?? I heard about that story before... his name was Randy Couture. I didnt believe that one either.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> There are weight classes for a reason, people.


Way to many ppl reflect way to much on weight classes. Of course it is a very important point, but I can name you so many names who could fight in different weight classes as they do now.



The_Senator said:


> Well, I guess when someone mentions Anderson, Machida or Shogun they expect a flashy first round KO/TKO, but how many guys have been defeated in the first round by all three lately? Fedor is no Forrest Griffin and I'm sure he'd be perfectly able to avoid being caught in the first round and take it to the ground afterwards where he'd have significant advantage. It would be pretty lame to expect Fedor keeping it standing the whole fight.


I didn't reflect my statement on the Forrest Griffin fight. It's still a facination for me, that ppl actually thought, that Griffin would be a tough fight for Anderson. The same thing would happen to *Frank Mir* ( yes Mir the guy who just bulk up 30lbs and fights now at 260 lbs) if they fought now, to CroCop, to Big Nog, to Rashad, to Rampage and so on... these guys are just not on the same level. It really doens't matter how much they weight! The more they actually do the better for the lower fighter. 
But sure fighters like Fedor, Cain, Brock all these great Wrestlers, who know how to use there size as an advantage have a huge egde on the ground. Anderson's TDD is really not great and I see as a big disadvantage for him if he would fought Fedor. Even against Sonnen, this will be a big issue for him. 

But a guy like Lyoto with those outstanding TDD would turn this fight into a striking battle, wich he would win because he is just better!! Same with Anderson and Shogun, if these guys would have the same great TDD as Lyoto they would own Fedor on the feet with a huge amount.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

lol at thinking that A LHW cant beat HW

see what rua did to overeem

i think his style is the worst match up for fedor


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> see what rua did to overeem
> 
> i think his style is the worst match up for fedor


Fedor's fighting style is too different from Overeem's. And Overeem is also significantly bigger now comparing to what he used to be when he fought Rua, but I guess it's all about steroids.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> I never understood in lower weight classes having some sort of advantage when fighting Fedor.
> 
> If Fedor were to fight say Machida or Shogun, and get his arms wrapped around them, they would be in some serious, serious trouble. Fedor grabs guys much larger than he is and toss them around the cage like little girls. He'd fling Shogun and Machida around the cage quite easily, and he has a great grappling game, he's bigger, stronger, and heavier. Neither Shogun or Machida has the power to rock Fedor, and Fedor is fast, he'd be more than able to get his hands on either of them at some point, fling them to the ground, and put and end to it. Also, he has some of the hardest hands in all of MMA, he'd drop either of them with a good clean shot.
> 
> There are weight classes for a reason, people.


 

MC you have stated in the past that Machida 'could" fair well against Fedor and noted he used to fight at HW, have you lost that faith.....


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## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

Avoid this thread, avoid this thread....damn I don't have the self-control. Can't believe this thread exists:sad02:


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> But a guy like Lyoto with those outstanding TDD would turn this fight into a striking battle, wich he would win because he is just better!! Same with Anderson and Shogun, if these guys would have the same great TDD as Lyoto they would own Fedor on the feet with a huge amount.


the thing about that is,it's that fedor has never had technical TD he pretty much has just uses his power and ragdolls people not saying he isn't technical but he just hasn't needed to be and i could see him rag dolling guys like lyoto,anderson,shogun 

and people seem to forget the cro cop fight and that it was prime cro cop with that blazing speed and he still couldn't do anything and none of the guys you mentioned are as fast and have the power in there hands and legs as cro cop did


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

coldcall420 said:


> MC you have stated in the past that Machida 'could" fair well against Fedor and noted he used to fight at HW, have you lost that faith.....


He could fair well until Fedor gets ahold of him. I've always said that if Machida were to go to HW, he'd get controlled by the wrestlers, as most guys even at LHW eventually get their hands on Machida, and it's Machida's skill that lets him avoid getting taken down. If it's Fedor, who is bigger, stronger, and extremely skilled in grappling gets his hands on him, or a guy like Brock who has very solid wrestling and is massive, they would put him on his back and it would be very bad for Machida.

I've always stated this. I once thought Machida might be the one to give Fedor a real run for his money, but over the course of many many moons, the opinion has changed (I said this like 8 months ago or something).


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## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

Michael Carson said:


> He could fair well until Fedor gets ahold of him. I've always said that if Machida were to go to HW, he'd get controlled by the wrestlers, as most guys even at LHW eventually get their hands on Machida, and it's Machida's skill that lets him avoid getting taken down. If it's Fedor, who is bigger, stronger, and extremely skilled in grappling gets his hands on him, or a guy like Brock who has very solid wrestling and is massive, they would put him on his back and it would be very bad for Machida.
> 
> I've always stated this. I once thought Machida might be the one to give Fedor a real run for his money, but over the course of many many moons, the opinion has changed (I said this like 8 months ago or something).



But Machida has some of the best "Wrestling" at LHW, it's a fact often overlooked because he doesn't have a wrestling background besides sumo that's it. But his stats show great TD/TDD.

Though of course Machida has shown a weakness to Judo, and Fedor could use that to get him to the ground.


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## FeedMyLegacy (Feb 25, 2010)

Cain, he has remained undefeated facing the best in the world in the UFC. Fedor hasn't joined the UFC, the reason doesn't matter, because until he does I will never consider him the best pound for pound or heavyweight fighter in the world.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

machidaisgod said:


> Avoid this thread, avoid this thread....damn I don't have the self-control. Can't believe this thread exists:sad02:


I agree, the TS was just trollin' for some Fedor talk..............


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

In MMA fight Rua,Machida and A.Silva will have superhard time to beat Fedor.. Im fan of all of them - great fighter.
They all know their strenght. Rua,Machida and A.Silva are fast good strikers who has good cardio, speed and strenght in their weightclass when they cut. Fedor is so freakly strong that he decided to not cut at all and stay around 230lbs which is middle of his weightclass.

Even if they bulk up they wouldnt be even near str of Fedor and proly lost some speed and cardio (they wouldnt be use to it)

Argument that you can overcome str is true but you need better skill set and thats what Fedor dont miss 

I dont say he kill them instantly, they could give him great fight. At the end I see Fedor with raised hand.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Chileandude said:


> But Machida has some of the best "Wrestling" at LHW, it's a fact often overlooked because he doesn't have a wrestling background besides sumo that's it. But his stats show great TD/TDD.
> 
> Though of course Machida has shown a weakness to Judo, and Fedor could use that to get him to the ground.


At LHW Machida is a very difficult guy to get down. When you're dealing with someone bigger, stronger, and who also has a ton of experience and great technique in the art of takedowns and grappling that Fedor does, it'll be very difficult for Machida to avoid it.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

Velasquez via KO/TKO 19	10.98%
Velasquez via submission 0	0%
Velasquez via decision 10	5.78%
Emelianenko via KO/TKO 96	55.49%
Emelianenko via submission 42	24.28%
Emelianenko via decision 6	3.47%

haha good voting


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## vaj3000 (Dec 28, 2008)

fedor because im biased


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

vaj3000 said:


> fedor because im biased


Haha, hero!


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> He could fair well until Fedor gets ahold of him. I've always said that if Machida were to go to HW, he'd get controlled by the wrestlers, as most guys even at LHW eventually get their hands on Machida, and it's Machida's skill that lets him avoid getting taken down. If it's Fedor, who is bigger, stronger, and extremely skilled in grappling gets his hands on him, or a guy like Brock who has very solid wrestling and is massive, they would put him on his back and it would be very bad for Machida.
> 
> I've always stated this. I once thought Machida might be the one to give Fedor a real run for his money, but over the course of many many moons, the opinion has changed (I said this like 8 months ago or something).


 
It def wasn't yest you said it thats for sure......I think it would be a little more interesting in terms of Fedor's ability to toss Lyoto, however I do think that Machida would lose the fight, for the same reasons I pick him to beat Brock, or Rogers or Cariwin or anyone in the game right now...




Michael Carson said:


> At LHW Machida is a very difficult guy to get down. When you're dealing with someone bigger, stronger, and who also has a ton of experience and great technique in the art of takedowns and grappling that Fedor does, it'll be very difficult for Machida to avoid it.


I just thought you had lost faith for a sec.....You still like him to win again with the rematch??:confused02:


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Posledny imperator. Because I'm a nuthugger.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

coldcall420 said:


> It def wasn't yest you said it thats for sure......I think it would be a little more interesting in terms of Fedor's ability to toss Lyoto, however I do think that Machida would lose the fight, for the same reasons I pick him to beat Brock, or Rogers or Cariwin or anyone in the game right now...
> 
> I just thought you had lost faith for a sec.....You still like him to win again with the rematch??:confused02:


Fedor is a very, very strong guy, who has amazing grappling and ability to shift his weight and balance for throws. Machida would simply not be big enough to defend takedowns of a guy with Fedor's strength and pure grappling skill. Up until he takes him down, it would be a good fight, cause we both know how technical Lyoto is standing.

No faith lost, but Lyoto fighting Fedor, I have thought for a long, long time that Fedor would definitely be the victor from pure size/strength and grappling skill, as once Fedor gets the takedown, Machida is in trouble.

I still have Machida to beat Shogun in the rematch, of course. It's Shogun, not Fedor, or any other bigger guy who can take Lyoto down.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> Fedor is a very, very strong guy, who has amazing grappling and ability to shift his weight and balance for throws. Machida would simply not be big enough to defend takedowns of a guy with Fedor's strength and pure grappling skill. Up until he takes him down, it would be a good fight, cause we both know how technical Lyoto is standing.
> 
> No faith lost, but Lyoto fighting Fedor, I have thought for a long, long time that Fedor would definitely be the victor from pure size/strength and grappling skill, as once Fedor gets the takedown, Machida is in trouble.
> 
> I still have Machida to beat Shogun in the rematch, of course. It's Shogun, not Fedor, or any other bigger guy who can take Lyoto down.


 
Perhaps Im slightly confused with the Brock saga when there was talk of Lyoto wanting to fight him, either way as usual we agree at the end, I never saw Machida beating Fedor, I ould love it, but Never, and i still ee Machida winning again against Shogun.......and I think I know how he is gonna do it too.....pretty sure he will do what I am thinking he will....


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## Jacknife545 (Mar 26, 2010)

*I'll have to agree with the Populous*

:thumbsup: Any Racist deserves a beat down. I'd like to see mister "brown power" on the mat KO'd


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## radab (Mar 14, 2010)

polls are pretty evenly split

cains got about as much chance of winning as i got of pulling arianny


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

Fedor would defeat everyone in Strikeforce and the UFC except possibly JDS...just my 2 cents. People forget his ***** skill set, it is deadly.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

radab said:


> polls are pretty evenly split
> 
> cains got about as much chance of winning as i got of pulling arianny


You know some kid who couldn't get a date to his senior prom wrote to and asked Arianny and she said yes and actually went to his prom as his date.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

VolcomX311 said:


> You know some kid who couldn't get a date to his senior prom wrote to and asked Arianny and she said yes and actually went to his prom as his date.


Is that true? That's pretty awesome if it is. And pretty cool of Arianny.

Anyways, Fedor by submission or knockout. Is Cain's stand up really enough to put Fedor in trouble? Can he defend against his explosive submissions and even get him on the ground?

These questions and more.


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## TheGrizzlyBear (Sep 15, 2009)

I have to agree with Alizio, the general consencus around here is that Fedor is a God among men and no matter who you put against him he will come out victorius, and if someone disagrees its blasphemy and they are ex-communicated... 

And how the hell was Arlovski considered #2 at HWY when he fought Fedor? I'm pretty sure thats crap.... and I think Cain or JDS have a better shot then some of Fedors more recent competitors.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

lol at Fedor submitting Cain. Fedor hasnt subbed anybody with a good ground game since Fajita in 2003. By the way, Coleman and Randalman dont count, they both never learned sub defense, not even to this day.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

VolcomX311 said:


> You know some kid who couldn't get a date to his senior prom wrote to and asked Arianny and she said yes and actually went to his prom as his date.


That is ******* awesome!!!

:thumb02:


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## radab (Mar 14, 2010)

TheGrizzlyBear said:


> I have to agree with Alizio, the general consencus around here is that Fedor is a God among men and no matter who you put against him he will come out victorius, and if someone disagrees its blasphemy and they are ex-communicated....




Yeah i know what you mean, but it's totally warranted. The guys the greatest fighter this planet has ever seen, as well as a totally humble, gentleman. It's no wonder he's put on such a pedestal

raise01: Fedor


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

jcal said:


> lol at Fedor submitting Cain. Fedor hasnt subbed anybody with a good ground game since Fajita in 2003. By the way, Coleman and Randalman dont count, they both never learned sub defense, not even to this day.


Does GNP count as a sub? I don't think Sylvias ground game was that bad, same for Lindland


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Samborules said:


> Does GNP count as a sub? I don't think Sylvias ground game was that bad, same for Lindland


 lol Timmy has no sub defense....

Lindland is a MW....

he wouldnt sub Cain. im pretty sure of that.

the standup would be the fun part IMO

if it went to the ground it would be Fedor on the bottom.

as far as *****.... if its so good name the other top fighters who use it or guys from Fedors camp that use it that are so good.....

Im not trying to disrespect *****... i dont know much about it. I just tire of ppl brining up some ***** world championship when none of the other guys in ***** are top MMA fighters outside of AA who mostly uses boxing??

its like saying look at Machida and his karate!!

nobody else uses karate tho....

i think both Fedor and Machida would have been top guys regardless of what style they chose, they are that good. infact maybe they could be better???

until i see a bunch of ***** guys and Karate guys taking over MMA i have my doubts.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

alizio said:


> lol Timmy has no sub defense....
> 
> Lindland is a MW....
> 
> ...



alizio, watch the video of Fedor's exhibitions vs. Mousasi and vs. Aoki. Yes, both are smaller guys but it will give you an intro into *****. I know Sylvia was subbed by Arlovski, Nog and Mir but those are some world class dudes, he still has a decent record?


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

Fedor and Aleks Emelianenko, Sergei Kharitonov, Oleg Taktarov, Megumi Fujii and Andrei Arlovski are all ***** practioners. I'd say that's a pretty solid list of fighters for a little known Russian Martial art.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

It has an emphasis on joint locks and bone breaks, and many Russian Federation law enforcement personnel learn it, if memory serves.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

Yeah, but if you want to "see" what it is go to youtube and watch those exhibitions.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Samborules said:


> Yeah, but if you want to "see" what it is go to youtube and watch those exhibitions.


 ive watched Fedor vs Mousasi and seen a couple training videos.

i dont want to diss an artform i know so little about. i just dont see how saying a guy is the best ***** practitioner ever is a big deal when literally no other top fighter uses *****??

i could say im world jewish mexican slap boxing 3rd division retardo champion of new mexico (which is half true). If nobody else practices it on the highest levels its hard to know what that means, isnt it?

its clear Fedor is amazing. but would he be amazing without ***** and say wrestling, boxing/muay thai?? or is he only great because of *****???

Fedor has never faced anybody with great hands except AA IMO. It gave him some problems. I think JDS and Cain could give his standup some problems. 

As far as *****. like i said,i dont know what that means?? he can take down anybody?? he can KO anybody?? i dunno. other guys who practice ***** seem pretty beatable 

i hope this doesnt make you think im disrespecting ***** (know you tho, your open minded, so i dont think it will be a prob). Fedor is obviously doing something right.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

Perhaps instead of ***** we should just say "Grappling"?

His grappling skill set in terms of technique, balance and power is very good. I think when he fought Cro Cop, Mirko had pretty good hands and kicks. And heck he lasted almost three rounds with JDS, who is just a phenom so give Mirko some credit. Grim has some solid striking too. I hear you in that we don't know how good or overrated he is until he faces Cain/Carwin/Mir/Brock/JDS


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Samborules said:


> Perhaps instead of ***** we should just say "Grappling"?
> 
> His grappling skill set in terms of technique, balance and power is very good. I think when he fought Cro Cop, Mirko had pretty good hands and kicks. And heck he lasted almost three rounds with JDS, who is just a phenom so give Mirko some credit. Grim has some solid striking too. I hear you in that we don't know how good or overrated he is until he faces Cain/Carwin/Mir/Brock/JDS


 Cro Cop has a great hand..... the left one lol. i wouldnt say he has great hands tho. he has very accurate counters down the middle and great kicks. Cro Cop would be a horrible boxer tho.

I think Cro Cop showed us some holes in JDS' standup and ppl never talk about it. That straight left counter down the middle was connecting nicely but Cro Cop lacks the speed and confidence to follow up to make it count. JDS was giving him far too much respect, likely because he felt the power or cuz of CCs rep. not sure.

Grim has great power and im actually seeing an improvement in his boxing and footwork but he is still pretty slow in terms of handspeed and pretty predictable lead with the left straight 9/10.

I think as good as Fedor is, he could have been better. Which is a scary thought. He could add more crisp striking + his "casting" punches. He could add kicks to his arsenal etc etc

believe me these kids are learning everything and utilizing everything.

Perhaps ***** is the best and there are no counters to it??

ill keep my eyes pealed for ***** style guys making their way up, plz let me know cuz i am interested.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Fedor wins. I think Fedor's the worst matchup for Cain.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

I'm not sure Fedor could ever necessarily be a "good" match up for anyone. I'm not saying he's indestructible, just that he can go anywhere, it's all bad.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Samborules said:


> *Perhaps instead of ***** we should just say "Grappling"?*
> His grappling skill set in terms of technique, balance and power is very good. I think when he fought Cro Cop, Mirko had pretty good hands and kicks. And heck he lasted almost three rounds with JDS, who is just a phenom so give Mirko some credit. Grim has some solid striking too. I hear you in that we don't know how good or overrated he is until he faces Cain/Carwin/Mir/Brock/JDS


For sure. Because now days most grappling styles have all the same subs. Fedor is a monster grappler, for sure one of the top 10 in the world in pure grappling for a HW, but I just dont see him or anybody subbing Cain. Nothing is harder than to sub an amazingly conditioned and skilled wrestler with good submission defence. Thats Not to knock Fedor at all. I think hes the best HW in the world right now. But IMO alot of these heavyweights out there in all shows could beat each other on any given night.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

Mirko has good hands, even now he uses it pretty well - gave JDS some solid beating with his left. Of course, he's past his prime, but back then in '05, when Fedor fought him, Mirko's skills and mental game were better, and Fedor didn't have much trouble. There's an assumption that fighters in PRIDE used steroids, so it makes Fedor's record even more impressive if some of his opponents indeed used them (Randleman and Coleman, for example). Right now I consider JDS as a biggest threat to Fedor... and Lesnar if he's still capable of doing what he did on UFC 100. For Velasquez Emelianenko is just the worst matchup.


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## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

Fedor, the only one who would be 50-50 against him is Lesnar and he would be 50-50 against Godzilla. However Fedor is wasting the last of his prime years, in 5 years I would have to rethink this answer, but now?


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

The_Senator said:


> I'm just curious to see how many fans believe that Cain would beat Fedor if they were to fight this spring.


Hell yes he would. Fedor is such an overrate joke it makes me sick. Sherdog should be boycotted for propping him up.  The guy is good, but man is he overrated.


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