# GSP = Best P4P?



## HD209458B (Mar 19, 2011)

How can GSP be the best p4p? what about Anderson Silva? cos even Dana White thinks Anderson Silva is the best p4p..
If you compare their UFC record AS is clearly better.

AS
Win: 13, Loss: 0 (8T/KOs, 3 Submissions, 2 Decisions)
Won Fight of the Night (3 times)
Won Knockout of the Night (3 times)
Won Submission of the Night (2 times)
Most consecutive title defenses (Eight)
Most successful title defenses (Eight)
Most consecutive wins in the UFC (Thirteen)
Longest UFC title reign

GSP
Win: 16, Loss: 2 (5T/KOs, 2 Submissions, 9 Decisions :sarcastic11
Won Fight of the Night (2 times)
Won Submission of the Night (1 time)

If GSP is that great, why can't he finish fights? why does he have to admit that he fights "Safe"?
GSP says he is the or wants to be the best p4p in the world, yet he is too scared to Anderson Silva. :confused02:

Silva vs GSP is long overdue and we'll probably never see it  only cos GSP is too chicken to face Anderson Silva and avoiding it hardcore...
http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/90723-superfight-gsp-vs-silva-conspiracy-video.html


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Why doesn't Anderson Silva want to go up in weight and fight JBJ? What about Anderson "playing it safe" against Maia and Leites? Both of which were horribly outclassed more so than anybody GSP has ever fought.

Anderson Silva isn't a little bigger he is a huge 185lber the guy walks around probably a good 30lbs bigger than GSP.


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## Crester (Apr 5, 2009)

While GSP is good... Anderson Silva is P4P best right now...


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## duckyou666 (Mar 17, 2011)

I honestly believe Silva is the p4p king. But the argument for GSP being number 1 is that he's strong in absolutely every aspect of MMA. While Silva is clearly weak at the most important one, Wrestling. Regardless, I still think Silva is #1.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I think Anderson Silva has shown more weakness in getting his ass dominated for 20 minutes by Sonnen than GSP has. Silva has also lost the first round to both Hendo and Lutter as well as losing the last round to Maia. Silva has looked human, GSP has dominated.


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## HD209458B (Mar 19, 2011)

Toxic said:


> Why doesn't Anderson Silva want to go up in weight and fight JBJ? What about Anderson "playing it safe" against Maia and Leites? Both of which were horribly outclassed more so than anybody GSP has ever fought.
> 
> Anderson Silva isn't a little bigger he is a huge 185lber the guy walks around probably a good 30lbs bigger than GSP.


Anderson Silva already fought larger fighters(two LHWs) like any other MMA/UFC legends. But GSP haven't faced any larger fighter despite the face that he always say he is the or wants to be the best p4p in the world, and he is a Big WW. Silva said he is willing to cut down to 170 to face GSP, and GSP said(iirc) he is not scared to face MW/LHW and since they'll be fighting at same weight i don't see any disadvantage for GSP. GSP fans think GSP can beat anyone anyway.. :confused02:


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

I don't want to add anything but this: Maia was NOT "outclassed" in the Silva fight, if Silva had been a badass and tried to actually BEAT Maia he could have ended up being submitted. 


Saying Silva outclassed Maia in that fight and that's why he acted the way he did, is like saying GSP outclassed Shields on the ground so bad and that's why he didn't take him down more.


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## Jason12 (May 8, 2010)

HD209458B said:


> Anderson Silva already fought larger fighters(two LHWs) like any other MMA/UFC legends. But GSP haven't faced any larger fighter despite the face that he always say he is the or wants to be the best p4p in the world, and he is a Big WW. Silva said he is willing to cut down to 170 to face GSP, and GSP said(iirc) he is not scared to face MW/LHW and since they'll be fighting at same weight i don't see any disadvantage for GSP. GSP fans think GSP can beat anyone anyway.. :confused02:


I thought Silva wasnt willing/couldnt cut down to 170?

Either way I would have to go with GSP. Regardless if you like his style or not, GSP has dominated all his fights for years.


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## duckyou666 (Mar 17, 2011)

khoveraki said:


> I don't want to add anything but this: *Maia was NOT "outclassed" in the Silva fight,* if Silva had been a badass and tried to actually BEAT Maia he could have ended up being submitted.
> 
> 
> Saying Silva outclassed Maia in that fight and that's why he acted the way he did, is like saying GSP outclassed Shields on the ground so bad and that's why he didn't take him down more.


Maia was seriously outclassed in the first 3 rounds. Silva landed what he wanted, when he wanted. Maia himself new he was outclassed so he fell to his ass anytime Silva took a step towards him. Then, about mid round 3, I think Silva gassed and that's what led to him acting like he did.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

I'd give Silva the #1 spot still
GSP #2.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Both poll options are ridiculous. 

Anyways A. Silva is number one. GSP is second. However, I think that if both remain in their respective divisions AS will lose first.


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## HD209458B (Mar 19, 2011)

Toxic said:


> I think Anderson Silva has shown more weakness in getting his ass dominated for 20 minutes by Sonnen than GSP has. Silva has also lost the first round to both Hendo and Lutter as well as losing the last round to Maia. Silva has looked human, GSP has dominated.


Did you notice how confident Anderson Silva looked in round 4 n 5 of Sonnen fight despite poor first 3 rounds? (lets not forget this wasn't normal Sonnen but on steroids)
I think AS was unlucky on that fight but he still won and finished the fight, and even Dana called his performance legendary.
AS clearly finished Hendo, and way he performed against Maia in round 1 n 2 was like watching Matrix. 

GSP couldn't even finish Hardy, in fact Hardy looked identical in post fight interview as he did in pre fight interview thanks to GSP great submission skills. :sarcastic11:
Sure he is great at taking people down, and good at playing "Safe".. he even took Kos down with about minute left on 5th round.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Definitely Anderson.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> I don't want to add anything but this: Maia was NOT "outclassed" in the Silva fight, if Silva had been a badass and tried to actually BEAT Maia he could have ended up being submitted.
> 
> 
> Saying Silva outclassed Maia in that fight and that's why he acted the way he did, is like saying GSP outclassed Shields on the ground so bad and that's why he didn't take him down more.


 Come on Khov, Maia was trying to get knocked out in that fight it was so embarrassing. The guy was throwing so recklessly by the end even Chris Leben was wondering what the F*** he was thinking. Anderson made his face look like Hamburger. Anderson made it clear that Maia couldn't take him down and yet refused to put him away regardless.



HD209458B said:


> Anderson Silva already fought larger fighters(two LHWs) like any other MMA/UFC legends. But GSP haven't faced any larger fighter despite the face that he always say he is the or wants to be the best p4p in the world, and he is a Big WW. Silva said he is willing to cut down to 170 to face GSP, and GSP said(iirc) he is not scared to face MW/LHW and since they'll be fighting at same weight i don't see any disadvantage for GSP. GSP fans think GSP can beat anyone anyway.. :confused02:


 Brock Lesnar can say he is willing to cut down to FW to dethrone Jose Aldo that doesn't mean its real. Talk is cheap and if Anderson Silva is so eager to cut down to WW why hasn't he done it? Why because he physically is not capable anymore. 



HD209458B said:


> Did you notice how confident Anderson Silva looked in round 4 n 5 of Sonnen fight despite poor first 3 rounds? (lets not forget this wasn't normal Sonnen but on steroids)
> I think AS was unlucky on that fight but he still won and finished the fight, and even Dana called his performance legendary.
> AS clearly finished Hendo, and way he performed against Maia in round 1 n 2 was like watching Matrix.
> 
> ...


Chael Sonnen was unlucky. Anderson being unlucky does not explain Sonnen taking him down with ease and dominating 4 rounds. GSP can say he was unlucky when he fought Serra. Silva didn't get caught, that is skill not luck when you do what Sonnen did for 20 minutes.

Your right about one thing though, Hardy looked the same before and after, he didn't have a belt at either time.


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## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

My P4P top 5
1. Silva
2. GSP
3. Aldo
4. Melendez
5. Edgar

I believe that rule of: you are considered a true champion if you have at least defended once. Thats why Cain (7) and Jon Jones (6) is not in my Top 5. But if GSP beats Nick Diaz next it would be very debatable if GSP is not #1. I mean his last 3 opponents would be: Koscheck, Shields, Diaz. I think thats a better list than Sonnen, Belfort, Okami (no disrespect). GSP would single handily prove that StrikeForce is lower tier by beating two of their more dominant Champions in two "Superfights". Their is a point where smashing opponents doesent give you extra points anymore considering the quality of opponents faced.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Anderson, hands down. 

If this is all based on who the baddest fighter p4p is, you have to finish the fight. If you don't finish a fight, you leave opportunity for the opponent to win. If you finish, well, you are no longer in danger. Anderson would kill anyone he fights, while GSP may get killed over time. That's my drastic way of looking at it.


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## duckyou666 (Mar 17, 2011)

box said:


> Anderson, hands down.
> 
> If this is all based on who the baddest fighter p4p is, you have to finish the fight. If you don't finish a fight, you leave opportunity for the opponent to win. If you finish, well, you are no longer in danger. Anderson would kill anyone he fights, while GSP may get killed over time. That's my drastic way of looking at it.


^This


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## Tabares (Mar 27, 2011)

Toxic said:


> Why doesn't Anderson Silva want to go up in weight and fight JBJ? What about Anderson "playing it safe" against Maia and Leites? Both of which were horribly outclassed more so than anybody GSP has ever fought.
> 
> Anderson Silva isn't a little bigger he is a huge 185lber the guy walks around probably a good 30lbs bigger than GSP.


mi' lord maybe he is already satisfied in mw ..lyoto is there in lhw also lil nog.hes also growing old now.its good to finish his career as a mw champ (i hope so).


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

It's close for me, and i'm an admitted GSP nuthugger. I'm going with Silva though. 

He's 13-0 in the UFC, which is just ridiculous. GSP is a fairly close second.


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## Samin00 (Feb 3, 2011)

Toxic said:


> I think Anderson Silva has shown more weakness in getting his ass dominated for 20 minutes by Sonnen than GSP has. Silva has also lost the first round to both Hendo and Lutter as well as losing the last round to Maia. Silva has looked human, GSP has dominated.


What about the fact that GSP has lost and AS hasn't?
Ask anybody and they would say that a guy who has never lost in the ufc is more dominant than a guy who has lost 2 times 

(Serra :thumbsdown.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

*This is P4P:​*


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I don't quite understand the poll here, the fact that i may or may not think that he possesses the ability to finish fights doesn't matter in the P4P rankings. 

Of course, i voted that GSP is the number one guy. He has demolished everybody in his way. Stopping them or not, he makes world class fighter's look like amateurs, total dominance. Not to mention he just defeated Jake Shields who was a legit P4P fighter before the bout. 

Right now i'm going with 1. GSP 2 Anderson Silva


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Tabares said:


> mi' lord maybe he is already satisfied in mw ..lyoto is there in lhw also lil nog.hes also growing old now.its good to finish his career as a mw champ (i hope so).


SO why is it ok for Anderson to be satisfied fighting at MW but not ok for GSP at WW?



Samin00 said:


> What about the fact that GSP has lost and AS hasn't?
> Ask anybody and they would say that a guy who has never lost in the ufc is more dominant than a guy who has lost 2 times
> 
> (Serra :thumbsdown.


 To me its easy to say GSP lost and not examine it further but lets be honest here, First off GSP was fighting in the UFC 2 years earlier. The loss to Hughes was a long ass time ago and Anderson was losing more fights early in his career against lesser competition. GSP has lost two fights in his career. One in his 8th career fight in 2004 against the greatest WW alive at that point bar none and the second he got caught in a flash knock out by a punch nobody on earth was expecting. Its fine to say GSP has lost but Anderson has lost more fights in his career and unlike GSP Anderson has never avenged those losses. GSP came back and completely dominated and outclassed Hughes and Serra. Anderson has yet to avenge any of his losses.


Anderson has lost 12.5% of his fights in his career while GSP has only lost 8%. Statistically Anderson loses one and a half as many fights. Mostly trivial meaningless numbers but just trying to show I can make them look like what ever I want to as well.

The guy who has lost a fight on a fluke and came back and destroyed him and then outclassed everyone he has fought is more dominant IMO than the guy who has lost numerous rounds and even been completely dominated before stealing a win.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

i would say its silva, but GSP is a very close second, many are talking about GSP making his opponents look like rookies but what about silva?

maia is a legit MW and he played with him in a way no1 can, belfort is ALWAYS a dangerous and tough opponent who had never been KOed and silva KOs him in the 1st round easily, first ever to do that, franklin was dominating at MW and silva destroyed him without breaking a sweat, leben had never been stopped and anderson stopped him in the 1st also, griffin, a former UFC LHW champ, a guy who gives EVERY LHW a hell of a tough time was schooled like no other fighter in the history of the sport, a former LHW champ with wins over rampage, shogun, rich was no match for anderson silva

sure he had the lutter fight, but lets not also forget he had surgery on both his knees 2 weeks before that fight

then the henderson fight...because henderson is a easy opponent for some reason:sarcastic12:...ppl can say henderson is meant for LHW but he was doing great at MW before and after anderson

and the sonnen fight, wich simply proves just how damn good anderson is, after a 4 round war he was still able to pull out a triangle in the 5th, you know how many fighters would have been broken by then? or not even be phisically capable of doing that?

also sonnen is one of if not THE best wrestler in the UFC and that is andersons biggest weakness and anderson STILL comes out on top, i would bet sonnen beats GSP

and last but not least i think anderson would beat GSP so that makes it easier to rank him higher

but in the end, if you want to talk about outclassing guys in the UFC no1 doest that better than anderson, taking every opponent to a UD isnt THAT impressive IMO..and im not a GSP hater, i dont even care if he finishes or not

also Anderson has never backed out of a fight because of an injury in all of his career in the UFC, i also think thats very impressive, though GSP hasnt either

PS: lol limba, goku would DOMINATE every super hero...there isnt even a debate there


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## Beeg (Nov 19, 2006)

P4P is often argued, as in this case, of record vs record. Who did GSP beat and who did Silva beat? To me P4P's always been a different hypothetical... scale up GSP's body and frame to Silva's 6'2", and who would win if they fought each other?

I don't blame GSP for not wanting to move up in weight and fight Silva. GSP knows how easy it was for him to handle Penn in their second fight. Sometimes size... not just weight, cannot be overcome if skill is fairly equal. On top of Silva having about 4" in height on GSP, his proportions are different. The ratio of Silva's legs to torso are different (longer legs). Silva's an excellent striker with kicks, and even if they fought each other at the same weight, Silva's reach advantage with legs and arms would offer a significant problem for GSP. 

But if I could play God and expand GSP's height and weight to match Silva's... which of the two would win now that skill, fitness and determination are the only differing factors. Kind of an aside, but this is why I think Jon Jones is going to rule the LHW division the way Silva and GSP have ruled their classes. Jones' frame, height, leg length and size are almost unfair for the division.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

Beeg said:


> P4P is often argued, as in this case, of record vs record. Who did GSP beat and who did Silva beat? To me P4P's always been a different hypothetical... scale up GSP's body and frame to Silva's 6'2", and who would win if they fought each other?
> 
> I don't blame GSP for not wanting to move up in weight and fight Silva. GSP knows how easy it was for him to handle Penn in their second fight. Sometimes size... not just weight, cannot be overcome if skill is fairly equal. On top of Silva having about 4" in height on GSP, his proportions are different. The ratio of Silva's legs to torso are different (longer legs). Silva's an excellent striker with kicks, and even if they fought each other at the same weight, Silva's reach advantage with legs and arms would offer a significant problem for GSP.
> 
> But if I could play God and expand GSP's height and weight to match Silva's... which of the two would win now that skill, fitness and determination are the only differing factors. Kind of an aside, but this is why I think Jon Jones is going to rule the LHW division the way Silva and GSP have ruled their classes. Jones' frame, height, leg length and size are almost unfair for the division.


i think GSP could avoid this situation by simply being humble and saying Anderson would kick his ass if he moved up, i think the size difference is too much also, not so much the weight but the height, its obvious GSP is a WW and anderson is a MW

Anderson admits JBJ would kill him and always says he wants to finish his career at MW, thats why many ppl dont complain about him

but everytime some1 asks GSP about anderson he responds with ''i think i can beat him, its just a matter of putting on the weight the right way'' or ''i think i could compete at MW''

damn if he isnt sure just admit you would get your ass kicked and that you want to stay at WW:confused03:


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## HD209458B (Mar 19, 2011)

ACTAFOOL said:


> i think GSP could avoid this situation by simply being humble and saying Anderson would kick his ass if he moved up, i think the size difference is too much also, not so much the weight but the height, its obvious GSP is a WW and anderson is a MW
> 
> Anderson admits JBJ would kill him and always says he wants to finish his career at MW, thats why many ppl dont complain about him
> 
> ...


Yer couldn't agree more. But fact is GSP isn't that much smaller than AS. Even Kos is around 200, i bet GSP is around 205-210. AS used to be very light for MW but i think he walks around 220 now days, either way the weight difference between two aren't that great and they can easily fight at catch weight(say 175-180) so i dont think there would be any unfair disadvantage for GSP.
Height difference shouldn't make the fight unfair, there are heaps of tall(slimmer) fighters in UFC and many got beaten by shorter(stocky) fighters. I think it comes down more to the training, skill, game plan, endurance and maybe bit of luck.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

GSP walks around at 195. He has said it and his trainers have. 

Anderson walks around over 220.


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## morninglightmt (Sep 7, 2008)

HD209458B said:


> Yer couldn't agree more. But fact is GSP isn't that much smaller than AS. Even Kos is around 200, i bet GSP is around 205-210. AS used to be very light for MW but i think he walks around 220 now days, either way the weight difference between two aren't that great and they can easily fight at catch weight(say 175-180) so i dont think there would be any unfair disadvantage for GSP.
> Height difference shouldn't make the fight unfair, there are heaps of tall(slimmer) fighters in UFC and many got beaten by shorter(stocky) fighters. I think it comes down more to the training, skill, game plan, endurance and maybe bit of luck.


I've noticed that of your 60 some odd post over half of them are about GSP, seems like an obsession, almost like your obsession with Benny Hinn.... :confused02: But you might want to consider that GSP is on record many times that his walk around weight is between 192-194, not 205-210. Of course Silva's walk around weight of 220 includes a lot of cheeseburgers, so I agree that a fight at 185 their weight would not be that far apart, maybe a few pounds advantage to Silva. Silva's frame however is naturally suited to this weight, while GSP is far more suited to 170 and he is clearly already bulking up the the max his frame can carry for him to perform at his peak athletic ability.

Hight difference doesn't make fight's "unfair", but it will definitely give an advantage to Silva. It makes it more difficult for GSP to establish range with his jab, his weapon of choice, if he has a large reach disadvantage. Of course this fight GSP would naturally want to take Silva to the ground. Most likely GSP would be just as successful as many other wrestlers in the past have been at taking Silva down, but I'm not sure he would be as tenacious at keeping him there as Sonnen was. GSP tends to make attempts to actually PASS guard and this might get him in trouble. Where I doubt he would be in much trouble is from sub attempts from the bottom, GSP has unparalleled posture and sub defense while Sonnen has a sub easy-button. But every time GSP tries to pass, Silva has a chance to get back up, and that's a dangerous place for GSP, or anyone, to be.

However, P4P in my eyes is not predicated on actually SEEING the fighters in question fight. It's a title bestowed by the fans and on this subject I'm pretty sure the jury is still out or we wouldn't be so heavily debating it. I think the future will decide in the end who was the best P4P fighter of this era, GSP or Silva. In other threads this past week I provided a lot of metrics that I think are relevant to the subject that get overlooked, mostly "strength of schedule", and in that category GSP wins hands down.

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/90641-greg-jackson-eye-injury-significant-7.html#post1406994

If you look at GSP's last 10 opponents they have a 3.77/1 win/loss ratio compared to a 2.7/1 win/loss ratio of Silva's last 10 opponents. It would be AWESOME if I had a number to weight each of the opponents those 10 guys fought in the same fashion, but that would take far too long. But clearly the difference is already significant. GSP has fought far stronger opponents, in dominant fashion.

On the other hand, in Silva's favor he has finished far more of his opponents.


I tend to proclaim one as the GOAT after his fight and then flip/flop as soon as the other fights, because they are just both so impressive it's impossible for me to chose :thumb02:


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

HD209458B said:


> *i bet GSP is around 205-210.*


*You're the biggest TROLL i've ever seen.*

I believe your only purpose is to talk crap and create a lot of unnecessary smack-talk around here.

Either that...or you suffer from a severe case of amnesia. 

How can you even say something like that, after posting numerious times in another thread regarding GSP's weight - a thread in wich the OP posts an interview with GSP's coach, Firas Zahabbi, in wich he clearly explains how big GSP is the fact he can't get bigger without affecting him.

This thread



> If he goes up [to 185], I would recommend he stay the same size. You don’t want Georges to go in there bulked up and unable to perform in the mechanical way that he does. I’d probably push him up to 200 pounds for that fight. He still wouldn’t be as big as Anderson and it wouldn’t be natural, but it would be better. If you do get on Anderson Silva, having an extra pounds on you is a good extra 10 pounds.


You're not even reading what the thread's discussion/topic is all about. 

And this - thread here:



> "Georges has been getting better at cutting weight. He’s walking around at *194 (pounds)*. There was a time when he used to walk around at 180 to make 170. He cuts weight so easily we added more muscle.
> As soon as the weigh-in is done (Friday afternoon) we’ll give him a recovery drink. We’ll even give him Prime (a workout supplement by Gatorade, which sponsors St-Pierre) because he needs the carbohydrates that much more . . . he’ll enter the ring at *192 or 193 pounds*."


And i already had a discussion with you on the subject of GSP's weight, about a month ago. When i offered a lot of arguments sustaining my point of view. 

Thread here 

You just march in, in every GSP thread, with your *troll-poetry* trying to start s*it.

I feel sorry for you.

You sound like a very frustrated person, who doesn't have too many goals in his life and by creating this *troll-buzz*, you try to get a lot of attention on yourself.

I will try not giving you that satisfaction from now on and i hope other posters who realize this after reading this, will do the same.

Best regards.


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## morninglightmt (Sep 7, 2008)

lol, thanks for enlightening, Limba



HD209458B said:


> lol you call urself "the wise one", two digit IQ = wise? :confused02:
> 
> Anyway AS already faced two LHWs, how many LHW does he have to fight? And how many MW has GSP faced?  (thats why AS is true no1 p4p, n GSP is Safe Pierre)
> 
> ...


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## Tabares (Mar 27, 2011)

> SO why is it ok for Anderson to be satisfied fighting at MW but not ok for GSP at WW?


he already proved his legacy beating two lhw guys (outclassing) them
one of them is the former lhw champ

silva still rooting for machida to become champ again.
as for gsp he needs to prove himself just like what anderson did..and just like what manny pacquiao did..to prove their dominance on the sport


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

duckyou666 said:


> I honestly believe Silva is the p4p king. But the argument for GSP being number 1 is that he's strong in absolutely every aspect of MMA. While Silva is clearly weak at the most important one, Wrestling. Regardless, I still think Silva is #1.


Exactly , GSP isnt weak in any area he is decent in all.

Anderson is badly weak in the wrestling aspect.


The whole P4P is retreaded because you cant have proof of it but the way i see it is , GSP has dominated everyone for a while now and they were all the #1 contender , Anderson has dominated most of them but then had his ass handed to him so therefore GSP is the best because he hasnt looked like LOSING ONCE RECENTLY. 


All the people who use the argument that finishing fights makes you the best blah blah are full of it, if you think finishing Sonnen the way the fight turned out makes you better than dominating a guy who has a 15 fight win streak in every round then you're delusional.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

When Chael gets his rematch then Anderson wont even be champ, so this debate can end.

When was the last time GSP got dominated by anyone? Good luck finding that.

GSP is head and shoulders above every WW on the planet, Anderson is barely above Sonnen. 

GSP is number 1, the best fighter in history.


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

I was reading this whole thread thinking that Anderrson Silva was DOMINATED by Chael Sonnen for 4 and a half rounds and people seem to forget that. GSP han't even shown weakness since his loss to Serra. 

He just made Jake Shields look like a nobody after Shieldswent 6 years and 15 fights undefeated. Give Chael a rematch and Silva will be dethroned.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Nope. He will forever be number #2 until Anderson loses.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Hiro said:


> When Chael gets his rematch then Anderson wont even be champ, so this debate can end.
> *
> When was the last time GSP got dominated by anyone? Good luck finding that.*
> 
> ...


When Serra knocked him the Fuckk out?:confused02:


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

GSP and Silva are both amazing fighters. The two best P4P fighters by a wide margin. However, that being said, I give Silva the nod for #1 simply because he tries to finish fighters. He fights smart (not going to the ground with Maia/Leites) and trys to frustrate grapplers into standing with him, and if they do, he finishes them. If they don't he embarasses them. 

The main reason GSP isn't my #1, he lacks either the killer instinct, or the willingness to use it.

Edit: GSP fanboyism is hilarious.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

vilify said:


> When Serra knocked him the Fuckk out?:confused02:


Yeah, 4 years ago. Since that he has faced only top level competition and made them look like little boy's, that includes stopping Serra with knees.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Rauno said:


> Yeah, 4 years ago. Since that he has faced only top level competition and made them look like little boy's, that includes stopping Serra with knees.


Yes but why do GSP fans act like that fight never happened? It doesn't matter if it was a fluke or not, he fought Serra in 07 and lost by KO.

Andy's last legitimate loss was in 04. He got DQ'd in 06 but has demolished everyone since then. His worst performances are on par with a typical GSP fight. In other words:

Andy vs Leites = GSP vs Shields

But GSP gets praised for going out their putting on these crappy fights while Silva gets pooped on :confused02:

Its seems to me that Silva is so damn good at what he does that occasionally when he performs like GSP he gets criticized.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Intermission said:


> I was reading this whole thread thinking that Anderrson Silva was DOMINATED by Chael Sonnen for 4 and a half rounds and people seem to forget that. GSP han't even shown weakness since his loss to Serra.


The difference is that GSP lost badly. Anderson was losing badly, but WON. That shows greatness, so it can't be held against him, imo. I find it more impressive for a non wrestler to be so dominate, which puts AS in front for me.


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## HD209458B (Mar 19, 2011)

limba said:


> *You're the biggest TROLL i've ever seen.*
> 
> I believe your only purpose is to talk crap and create a lot of unnecessary smack-talk around here.


*You are the biggest GSP nuthugger ive seen*(well actually you and someone called "UFC is GSP" in other forum). I just think GSP is way overrated and definately not the best p4p in the world.. i feel sorry for ya like i do towards Benny Hinn followers.
I'm not gonna waste my time looking through all the old thread to find GSP weight is 200-205. (they were posted in this forum few times and not by me)
Fact remains AS and GSP can easily fight at similar weight, simply by AS cutting bit more and GSP cutting bit less. GSP would have challenged AS long time ago if he thought he could beat AS.



limba said:


> How can you even say something like that, after posting numerious times in another thread regarding GSP's weight - a thread in wich the OP posts an interview with GSP's coach, Firas Zahabbi, in wich he clearly explains how big GSP is the fact he can't get bigger without affecting him.


Well "THE WISE ONE", don't you think it's bit fishy that GSP's trainer suddenly make public statement saying GSP isn't big enough for MW just after he beat Shields? :confused02:


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

For me Id go with silva by a fair margin. He doesn't just beat people, he dominates them and stops them. Gsp dominates fighters like Anderson dominated Maia and leites. Silva moved up and stopped two lhw fighters and one was a recent champion. Gsp has been beaten twice in the ufc, dominated and brutally stopped by a sup par fighter but finished twice.

If gsp doesn't step up his game I see Aldo taking the #2 spot in a year or two.


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## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

People keep saying that a fight with Nick Diaz will restore the faith of Fans towards GSP. I think that even a Nick Diaz fight, nothing will change. Here is why.

Even if Nick Diaz does move forward looking to engage in a slug fest, we all know that GSP would be a fool in doing so, thats not his style, he doesent fight with reckless abandon and he fights methodically by using his entire repertoire of skills. He is going to take Nick Diaz down at will, posture up and ground and pound his way for likely a decision victory. Casual Fans have this idea that one person wants to engage in a slug fest, the other person should be expected to as well. They hope that this is what will happen. They are going to be severely disappointed that GSP doesent trade bombs with Nick Diaz for more than a minute straight.

An experienced MMA fan would say that GSP fought the smart and right way. They would also say that GSP just took down a top fighter and made him look outclassed and GSP really is that good. The casual fan would just say that fight was boring (like BJ Penn 2 and Thiago Alves (which I would easily disagree, GnP dominance =/= boring LnP) and that GSP failed to once again "fight" his opponent and once again failed to finish. They would also question who was Nick Diaz and why did he deserve to fight GSP? At this point, the victory does not matter, only how they win or lose has become more important.

No matter what, even if GSP does not finish Nick Diaz with some crazy right hand or submission, which is damn hard to do, he would still be criticized (plenty of it unjustly, like right now). It takes two to tango, yet GSP is the one getting almost all, if not all, the heat. Their is very little to gain from beating Nick Diaz (unless he magically finishes Diaz) but their is more to lose for GSP victory or defeat.

The funny thing is Sherdog expects Nick Diaz to lose to someone like Jon Fitch, so instead Nick Diaz deserves to fight GSP instead of a tuneup fight and can win. So he cant beat Fitch, but he can beat someone better than Fitch? Yea ok. Thats why I push for an Anderson Silva superfight instead. Its going to be alot closer, and their will be plenty of action and intensity everywhere. Even if GSP beats Silva in the same fashion, no one can deny his top place in the World or his methods to win that fight because of Silva's stature. GSP needs to overcome overwhelming odds to regain the Fan's love, Silva had that against Sonnen. This mainstream superfight needs to happen against the Top 2 P4P Kings.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

GSP being the best P4P fighter is a LAUGH! JBJ or Anderson would beat his ASS DOWN


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

There is absolutely no way you could put GSP in front of Silva these days. But he is certainly still the number two.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Machida Karate said:


> GSP being the best P4P fighter is a LAUGH! JBJ or Anderson would beat his ASS DOWN


JBJ? JBJ is a LHW while GSP is a WW, of course he would beat his ass. If they would be physically identical, would you give Jones much of a chance against GSP? I wouldn't.

Jones would have to beat some more top competition to be considered a top P4P fighter.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

He's one of the best, but definitely not the best, or the GOAT.


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

Machida Karate said:


> GSP being the best P4P fighter is a LAUGH! JBJ or Anderson would beat his ASS DOWN


Thats ignorant, JBJ is WAY bigger then him. 

P.S even given the size difference I would take GSP over your precious Machida.


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## morninglightmt (Sep 7, 2008)

Machida Karate said:


> GSP being the best P4P fighter is a LAUGH! JBJ or Anderson would beat his ASS DOWN


What are you even talking about? JBJ vs GSP? They're separated by 2 weight classes. When did we go to crazy town? This isn't 2005 and JBJ isn't Hong-Man Choi :confused02:


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## <M>MA (Nov 20, 2006)

vilify said:


> Yes but why do GSP fans act like that fight never happened? It doesn't matter if it was a fluke or not, he fought Serra in 07 and lost by KO.
> 
> Andy's last legitimate loss was in 04. He got DQ'd in 06 but has demolished everyone since then. His worst performances are on par with a typical GSP fight. In other words:
> 
> ...


Thales Leites, seriously?

5 Fight Win Streak as opposed to Shields 15 fight win streak over tough competition and champion in two different weight classes/fight leagues?

Also, GSP fought through 3 rounds with a scratched eye that filled up with blood giving him absolutely zero visibility. Which means his depth perception was gone which is why he was getting hit with punches he would normally not get hit with. And which is also why he didn't put on more of a stand up clinic with Shields, he couldn't see what the hell he was doing. 

I guarantee if he could see for those 3 rounds, he would've A: Finished Shields, B: Made Shields face would look like hamburger like GSP's recent opponents both of which would've accompanied GSP coming out without a scratch like usual. He's very lucky a doctor didn't look at his eye or they would've stopped it. Which goes to show just how much this guy dominates his tough competition. He does it with 1 freaking eye, guys with 9, 12, 15 even 16 fight win streaks all have lost when they run into him and he does it decisively.

GSP's strength of schedule has been way tougher than Silva's and he wins fights.. Finishes or not, he beats tougher competition hands down.

He's #1.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

<M>MA said:


> I *guarantee* if he could see for those 3 rounds, he would've A: Finished Shields, B: Made Shields face would look like hamburger like GSP's recent opponents both of which would've accompanied GSP coming out without a scratch like usual.


GUARANTEE? LOL. 

You GSP nuthuggers never cease to amaze me.


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## <M>MA (Nov 20, 2006)

Really, that's all you could pull from that post? The fact that I believe GSP would've tooled Shields if he could see out of both eyes?

Troll on..


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

<M>MA said:


> Really, that's all you could pull from that post?


I stopped reading after that retarded comment. Everything above it was fine.



> The fact that I believe GSP would've tooled Shields if he could see out of both eyes?


That would have been fine, but you didn't say that. You GUARANTEED that GSP would have FINISHED Shields. That's just stupid


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## Maazisrock (Sep 22, 2008)

Rofl no way gsp is #1. Anderson for sure.


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## <M>MA (Nov 20, 2006)

AlphaDawg said:


> That would have been fine, but you didn't say that. You GUARANTEED that GSP would have FINISHED Shields. That's just stupid


Should read it again, one or the other would've happened. You're saying it wouldn't have? He was taking him down and attempting to hurt him with swinging overhand rights. If he had depth perception and just plain sight for that matter he would've put on much more of a striking clinic with Shields who had nothing.


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## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

I like GSP because he is the nullifying King, he can completely shut down his opponent and then work on him. I like Yushin Okami because he is also a fighter who can nullify their opponent. It might be a snoozer watching fighters fighting off their game, but its an effective way to fight and win. Anderson Silva cannot do the same, he cannot nullify opponents as well and leave them confused and disoriented, he just knocks them out cold and his superior reflexes prevents damage. :thumb02: Silva fights in almost a "kill or be killed" way, you bring it and I bring it we will see who is better. While GSP tries to put you at a stalemate before he works you silly, almost like a "chess match". I like both ways of fighting and dont find GSP or Okami "boring" or Silva "clowning" when he shows guys mercy by prancing around.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

vilify said:


> Yes but why do GSP fans act like that fight never happened? It doesn't matter if it was a fluke or not, he fought Serra in 07 and lost by KO.
> 
> Andy's last legitimate loss was in 04. He got DQ'd in 06 but has demolished everyone since then. His worst performances are on par with a typical GSP fight. In other words:
> 
> ...



Silva just got his ass handed to him by Sonnen :confused02: GSP hasnt lost a round since god knows how long.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

***** de Amigo said:


> Silva just got his ass handed to him by Sonnen :confused02: *GSP hasnt lost a round since god knows how long.*


Uh.....5 days ago?


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## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

***** de Amigo said:


> Silva just got his ass handed to him by Sonnen :confused02: GSP hasnt lost a round since god knows how long.


Hi.. I could have sworn that fight Silva finished that fight.. Its been awhile maybe my memory is deteriorating.

There is no ifs/ands/buts about it.. you can debate it for years but guess what.. it ended with Silva subbing him. You can say he was losing and all that jazz but he finished him. GSP was dominating a one eyed fighter in KOS and still couldnt finish him. Say what you want there. But to me Silva has the heart of a champion. Most fighters would have wilted.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

***** de Amigo said:


> Silva just got his ass handed to him by Sonnen :confused02: GSP hasnt lost a round since god knows how long.


Sonnen was on Drugs (Floyd Landis, Thiago Silva.. ) and Silva had a bad injury coming into that fight which opened up during the fight.

you have to skip the Sonnen fight to make a fair assumption.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

GSP 3rd best p4p, number 1 is a hilarious thought :laugh::happy02:


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## HD209458B (Mar 19, 2011)

I can't believe the so many people voted on GSP, considering most people posted in this thread believes AS is no1.

Maybe its not surprising since many GSP fans seem to believe he is some kind of God. :confused02:
http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/90731-gsps-trainer-st-pierre-about-big-hell-get.html


diablo5597 said:


> GSP would beat every MW at his current weight in my opinion. He would also beat most of the LHW's and even some of the HW's with his current weight. People don't understand how good he is.





diablo5597 said:


> Horrible post, not going to bother wasting time arguing with you.
> 
> I know what I'm talking about. I do think GSP can beat every middle weight. Anderson Silva isn't even one he has to worry too much about. It's guys like Okami and Sonnen he needs to worry about. Bigger stronger wrestlers would be the ones who threaten him most.
> 
> ...


I just hope we get to see Anderson Silva vs GSP in near future, so we can put an end to this nonsense.


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## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

GSP > Silva on p4p rankings.

The # of finished fights is irrelevant in the end, because even though GSP has been unable to finish some of them, he has still dominated all of them and unlike Silva doesn't have a noticeable weakness in his game. Also, GSP has avenged all of his losses, Silva hasn't. Now I am not saying that Silva can't beat Okami and Chonnen(?) (too lazy to check the guy's name, talking about the guy who subbed Silva with flying heel hook), but in GSP's case there are no IFs like that. 

Either way like it or not, but both stats and logic put GSP #1, Silva is close second though.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

What about the fact Silva has moved up in weight and GSP hasn't? Definitely affects their p4p status imo and is the factor that puts Silva slightly ahead. Avenging losses to two guy that Silva would (and in the case of Okami will) own easily now means nothing to me.

Either way it is a very close choice based on personal opinion.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

HD209458B said:


> *You are the biggest GSP nuthugger ive seen*


Noooooooo, i'm the biggest *Jon Jones* nuthugger.

And i'm one of the hardest debaters here.



HD209458B said:


> *I'm not gonna waste my time looking through all the old thread to find GSP weight is 200-205.* (they were posted in this forum few times and not by me)


If myself and others have the decency to debate this subject in a proper manner, with articles, quotes, videos and/or interviews - you should do the same.

It's a sign of mutual respect.



> I'm not gonna waste my time...


Of course you won't. 
Because you won't find anything, anywhere that says St-Pierre was 205-210 lbs.

Let me be the *fool* (again), who keeps this conversation in a civilised and respectful manner, ok?!
Because I CAN waste my time - there's enough of it...millions and millions of seconds...



> "Georges has been getting better at cutting weight. He’s walking around at *194 (pounds).* There was a time when he used to walk around at 180 to make 170. He cuts weight so easily we added more muscle.


205?!?! 210?!?!?!
..........................



HD209458B said:


> Well "THE WISE ONE", don't you think it's bit fishy that GSP's trainer suddenly make public statement saying GSP isn't big enough for MW just after he beat Shields? :confused02:


LMAO

Zahabi doesn't say he isn't big enough for MW!

He says: 



> “He’ll be very small for a middleweight.[
> 
> 
> > Meaning there would me a lot of fighters bigger than him.
> ...


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

xeberus said:


> For me Id go with silva by a fair margin. He doesn't just beat people, he dominates them and stops them. Gsp dominates fighters like Anderson dominated Maia and leites. Silva moved up and stopped two lhw fighters and one was a recent champion. Gsp has been beaten twice in the ufc, dominated and brutally stopped by a sup par fighter but finished twice.
> 
> If gsp doesn't step up his game I see Aldo taking the #2 spot in a year or two.


GSP just beat a MW champ and one that I honestly think would beat Silva. Not only do I think GSP would beat Silva, I would be pretty confident in the chances of Shields to beat Silva as well.


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## Steroid Steve (Oct 1, 2010)

Toxic said:


> GSP just beat a MW champ and one that I honestly think would beat Silva. Not only do I think GSP would beat Silva, I would be pretty confident in the chances of Shields to beat Silva as well.


Shields would get hurt bad trying to drag Silva to the ground. Anderson would surgically pick him apart before Shields could get in his comfort zone.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Steroid Steve said:


> Shields would get hurt bad trying to drag Silva to the ground. Anderson would surgically pick him apart before Shields could get in his comfort zone.


Just like everyone said he was gonna do to Chael? Shields has the tools to take Silva out and IMO made a better fighter a MW than he ever has at WW.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Jon Jones the uncrowned P4P Kingpin :thumbsup:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

FORGET LOGIC.

FORGET STATISTICS.

FORGET FACTS.

ANDERSON SILVA VS FORREST GRIFFIN is all any body needs to see. I've never seen a performance in mma quite like that before and I don't think I'll ever see one quite like it again.

It was like Watching Neo fight the three agents at the end of the first Matrix.

"You're saying I'll be able to dodge bullets?" 

"No Neo. I'm saying when the time comes, you won't have to".


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Why doesn't Anderson Silva want to go up in weight and fight JBJ? What about Anderson "playing it safe" against Maia and Leites? Both of which were horribly outclassed more so than anybody GSP has ever fought.
> 
> Anderson Silva isn't a little bigger he is a huge 185lber the guy walks around probably a good 30lbs bigger than GSP.





Toxic said:


> I think Anderson Silva has shown more weakness in getting his ass dominated for 20 minutes by Sonnen than GSP has. Silva has also lost the first round to both Hendo and Lutter as well as losing the last round to Maia. Silva has looked human, GSP has dominated.


With all due respect Toxic. I think your opinion of Anderson Silva, is about a valuable as my opinion of Rampage. You hate the guy, and I'm pretty sure no matter what he did, you'd feel that way.

To answer the question, GSP is absolutely not the best P4P fighter. He MIGHT be the best athlete the UFC has, but best fighter? NO way. I would rank Also, Silva, and soon to be Bones, above him, maybe even Shogun and Machida.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> FORGET LOGIC.
> 
> FORGET STATISTICS.
> 
> ...


LoL I gotta go rewatch that fight it has been too long.

PS: I just gotta say you have the most badass sig ever. I have considered killing you and stealing your sig. WAR REEM>


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## Steroid Steve (Oct 1, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Just like everyone said he was gonna do to Chael? Shields has the tools to take Silva out and IMO made a better fighter a MW than he ever has at WW.


I believe Sonnen would only get finished by Silva again if they fight, but it would be standing if there is a next time. Silva clearly wasn't himself that fight. Shields has the tools to hold down Silva, but he has to do a few things before he gets to that point. Silva isn't some scrub that is just going to be taken down at will when he's his usual self. I think it's a disrespect to how good Sonnen's wrestling is when we think any grappler can replicate what he does. Not even Shields has the same style of grappling Sonnen has. Sonnen can take any fighter in his weight class down.


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## HD209458B (Mar 19, 2011)

Mckeever said:


> It was like Watching Neo fight the three agents at the end of the first Matrix.


I think you could make Anderson Silva highlight completion video and sell it as Matrix 4. 
e.g. Tony Fryklund elbow uppercut, Chris Leben KO, both Rich Franklin KOs, highlight from Maia/Cote fights, etc, etc.



Steroid Steve said:


> I believe Sonnen would only get finished by Silva again if they fight, but it would be standing if there is a next time. Silva clearly wasn't himself that fight. Shields has the tools to hold down Silva, but he has to do a few things before he gets to that point. Silva isn't some scrub that is just going to be taken down at will when he's his usual self. I think it's a disrespect to how good Sonnen's wrestling is when we think any grappler can replicate what he does. Not even Shields has the same style of grappling Sonnen has. Sonnen can take any fighter in his weight class down.


I also think AS will finish Sonnen standing up if they fight again, he came close on start of 4th round. Can't believe AS looked so confident and energetic on 4th/5th round after losing three rounds, like somehow he knew he was gonna win, lol.

I think AS was bit unlucky cos he had injured ribs from start, Sonnen was on roid, slipped on last round(even Sonnen said he got lucky), n maybe Dana told him to fight more aggressively, cos AS was suppose to fight GSP at 170 if he beat Maia on UFC 112 but Dana cancelled it cos he wasn't happy with AS's performance in last 2 rounds, fact that he didnt fight aggressively and finish the fight. Totally unfair cos he still clearly won, and GSP gets away with decision wins all the time. Just compared the post fight photo of Maia or Sonnen with post fight photo of Hardy after GSP fight.


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## HD209458B (Mar 19, 2011)

Toxic said:


> Why doesn't Anderson Silva want to go up in weight and fight JBJ?


- Anderson Silva vs GSP is long overdue. 
- Anderson Silva and GSP are top2 p4p. (n i'm sure most people would put Aldo in top3 p4p)
- JBJ just became the champion, he hasn't even defended the title once.


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

I think GSP is the P4P best. Mostly because he doesn't really have a weakness (perhaps his chin).That doesn't change the fact that he is completely unwilling to take any risks whatsoever. He refused to attack Koscheck and Shields (Jake Shields for crying out loud!!!). He won't risk losing to Silva. He will just stay in his comfort zone dominating one lesser fighter after another in the most drawn out, risk free fashion possible. He is the Floyd Mayweather of MMA (except he is a really nice guy).


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## HD209458B (Mar 19, 2011)

St.Paul Guy said:


> I think GSP is the P4P best. Mostly because he doesn't really have a weakness (perhaps his chin).That doesn't change the fact that he is completely unwilling to take any risks whatsoever. He refused to attack Koscheck and Shields (Jake Shields for crying out loud!!!). He won't risk losing to Silva. He will just stay in his comfort zone dominating one lesser fighter after another in the most drawn out, risk free fashion possible. He is the Floyd Mayweather of MMA (except he is a really nice guy).


Well i dont think he is a really nice guy but totally opposite, anyway.. "he doesn't really have a weakness"? Did you see his face after Shields fight? Looked much worse than AS's face after Sonnen fight.. would be interesting to see GSP standing up against Alves, Hardy, etc. 
He doesn't have great striking skills to finish people standing up, if you think he dose :confused02: well he is too scared to take any chance and fights "Safe" all the time. And unfortunately he doesn't have skills to submit people after a takedown. He was on top of Hardy for like 24mins, GSP didnt want to stand with him and had no problem taking him down. I'll give GSP some credit, he did "try" to submit Hardy and had plenty of chances but thats when he displayed great Black Belt BJJ skills. :sarcastic11:


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

I look at it this way, when you consider the quality of the divisions, GSP is probably the pound for pound best fighter.

If we see them fight for Silva's title I think GSP wins that fight because he's the only man in the UFC with better wrestling than Chael Sonnen.

Im just not sure how effective Silva's BJJ would be against GSP. I cant use the Sonnen fight as a example, Sonnen is notoriously known for poor submission defense. Though I think Silva has good BJJ skills he hasn't shown us the type of high level BJJ he would need to Sub a GSP or a Jake Shields IMO and I dont think he can stop the takedowns.


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## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

BrianRClover said:


> With all due respect Toxic. I think your opinion of Anderson Silva, is about a valuable as my opinion of Rampage. You hate the guy, and I'm pretty sure no matter what he did, you'd feel that way.
> 
> To answer the question, GSP is absolutely not the best P4P fighter. He MIGHT be the best athlete the UFC has, but best fighter? NO way. I would rank Also, Silva, and soon to be Bones, above him, maybe even Shogun and Machida.


This is what im seeing lately. GSP is not even considered a "fighter" because he doesn't engage an opponent how you want him to. You dont win the WW Belt and keep it for this long by doing front flips over opponents. Also he isint a fighter because apparently he also doesent throw any punches or tries to break someone's arm off, and if we thought we see it, its a hallucination. :sarcastic12: GSP is THE #2 P4P MMA Fighter on the Planet, you could make a case he is #1, but he is ranked no lower than #2. Aldo, Jon Jones, Cain, etc are not above him. They shouldnt be, at this stage. Silva and GSP are way ahead of Aldo and then the rest of the pack.

They havent fought enough, they havent defended enough and they need more wins against quality opponents, especially in weaker divisions. They need to force people from LW or BW to move to FW to fight Aldo because their is not enough real tests for Aldo. HW turned into a 3 man race. And LHW is no longer the powerhouse it once was just after the PRIDE acquisition. GSP and Silva may not have much new challengers as of late, but the divisions still are pretty deep with plenty of Top Contenders and quality fighters. 


Like I said before, finishing shouldnt give you this many extra points, winning should ultimately be more important. Im sure that GSP does think about finishing to silence critics, but what good does that do if he ends up taking a drastic risk, makes a big mistake, and loses? Im not saying he should not take risks, why shouldnt he? But he shouldnt just abandon his gameplan just to make people happy and just start winging overhand punches like he did against Shields. The Janitor just destroyed Brilz in 20 seconds, should he be Top#10 P4P now? Cmon, somewhere the line has to be drawn.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Buakaw_GSP said:


> This is what im seeing lately. GSP is not even considered a "fighter" because he doesn't engage an opponent how you want him to. You dont win the WW Belt and keep it for this long by doing front flips over opponents. Also he isint a fighter because apparently he also doesent throw any punches or tries to break someone's arm off, and if we thought we see it, its a hallucination. :sarcastic12: GSP is THE #2 P4P MMA Fighter on the Planet, you could make a case he is #1, but he is ranked no lower than #2. Aldo, Jon Jones, Cain, etc are not above him. They shouldnt be, at this stage. Silva and GSP are way ahead of Aldo and then the rest of the pack.
> 
> They havent fought enough, they havent defended enough and they need more wins against quality opponents, especially in weaker divisions. They need to force people from LW or BW to move to FW to fight Aldo because their is not enough real tests for Aldo. HW turned into a 3 man race. And LHW is no longer the powerhouse it once was just after the PRIDE acquisition. GSP and Silva may not have much new challengers as of late, but the divisions still are pretty deep with plenty of Top Contenders and quality fighters.
> 
> ...


GSP isn't a "Fighter" he said it himself.


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## Tabares (Mar 27, 2011)

Machida Karate said:


> GSP being the best P4P fighter is a LAUGH! JBJ or Anderson would beat his ASS DOWN


i know ur just joking man


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Tabares said:


> i know ur just joking man



Jon Jones and Anderson are the ones that would be making a joke out of GSP :thumbsup:


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

GSP is a slight #1 - Toxic nailed it in his posts, IMO. Silva has looked weaker more often, plain & simple. People are simply blinded by his flash.

Haters gonna hate, fanboys gonna covet. Personally, I have both fighters in my top 5 fave of all time, so whatever.


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

Whether you like GSP or not he is probably the P4P best fighter simply because there is no hole in his game, no one else can control and manipulate a fight like he can, he doesn't finish enough fights but the truth he doesn't need to, he can control the fight and win that way.

I always thought GSP was too nice, every interview or video i saw of him he just seemed overly nice but after UFC 111 when he did not break Hardys arm i am convinced that he is just a really nice guy, like to the bone nice. It's remarkable that somebody who fights for a living can be as nice as GSP is, he's a credit to Canada and the human race even if he was an Englishman i think i would name my son Georges - that's how nice GSP is.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

If Dana white and pretty much every creditable mma reporter gives anderson siva the number one spot y is this even a debate. Silva is more skilled than gsp period, gsp is great but silva is on a next level.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Not sure why anyone would have Jones as the p4p best, lets see if he can defend his title a few times first.

You cant rank fighters p4p on what they might do, its what they have already done, GSP and Silva can be the only candidates with everyone else is someplace behind.


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## "El Guapo" (Jun 25, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Anderson Silva isn't a little bigger he is a huge 185lber the guy walks around probably a good 30lbs bigger than GSP.


This bs about anderson massively outweighing gsp is just not true, is dana whites videos blog AS said he was 197 (bearing in mind his fight is August 27th and the blog was pre UFC129), whereas multiple reports have GSP as weighing 194 before fights. Ok AS has a larger frame with longer limbs - but I guarantee you GSP is much stronger than AS and can outlift him at pretty much any excercise.
Now the crap about it being unfair is outta the way - IMO Anderson beats GSP and is therefore undisputed pound for pound king.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Anderson is my personal P4P no1 but you are blind if you cant see that the general opposition GSP has faced over the last 3 years has been higher.

Whilst Anderson was fighting Cote, Leben, Maia, Lutter and Leites GSP was fighting a prime Hughes, BJ, Thiago Alves, Jon Fitch and Josh Koscheck. 

ATM GSP's win resume is 2nd to no-one, if Anderson continues to add names like Belfort, Okami etc to his resume which he is perfectly capable of overtaking GSP though.


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

I'm not sure how P4P works, but even if GSP fought Anderson Silva at 185 it would not really be a fair fight, nor a true representation of P4P in my eyes, even though i would expect GSP to win.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

edlavis88 said:


> Anderson is my personal P4P no1 but you are blind if you cant see that the general opposition GSP has faced over the last 3 years has been higher.
> 
> Whilst Anderson was fighting Cote, Leben, Maia, Lutter and Leites GSP was fighting a prime Hughes, BJ, Thiago Alves, Jon Fitch and Josh Koscheck.
> 
> ATM GSP's win resume is 2nd to no-one, if Anderson continues to add names like Belfort, Okami etc to his resume which he is perfectly capable of overtaking GSP though.


So why did you leave out Hendo, Sonnen, Franklin, Nate, Griffin (former LHW Champion). 

And didn't include Serra or Hardy in GSP's list? 

It's all relative really.. they pretty much fought the same calibre of fighters. It depends on what you rate higher and which Fan you are.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

I'm not saying Anderson hasn't fought great fighters he has just fought a few less good ones. With the exception of Hardy GSP has fought world class guys every fight in the last 3 years. Which to me makes his resume slightly more impressive. P4P is a subjective thing though so you'll never get a definitive answer on it.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

gazh said:


> I'm not sure how P4P works, but even if GSP fought Anderson Silva at 185 it would not really be a fair fight, nor a true representation of P4P in my eyes, even though i would expect GSP to win.


P4P is simply a fantasy, its not like it means anything and its totally subjective. IMO most the people you see ranking fighters p4p are just ranking there favorite fighter.

So you take the fighters and you "pretend" they all are in the same weight class and about the same size bla bla then you come up with who's the best fighter, its spose to emphasize skill over size. To me there is nothing legitimate about the pound for pound ranking because its fundamentally flawed in a million different ways. 

Im saying (like I always do) we kick pound for pound down the road or at least add a mano a mano ranking. mano a mano means fist to fist and basically who would win if you ignored weight classes, at least that ranking would have some validity.


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## Steroid Steve (Oct 1, 2010)

edlavis88 said:


> I'm not saying Anderson hasn't fought great fighters he has just fought a few less good ones. With the exception of Hardy GSP has fought world class guys every fight in the last 3 years. Which to me makes his resume slightly more impressive. P4P is a subjective thing though so you'll never get a definitive answer on it.


World Class? Maybe world class wrestlers in terms of MMA, and one "world class" striker in Alves. A division isn't so stacked if there are 2-3 guys beating up on everyone else. A division isn't stacked when there is no real parody. That's a misconception. 

Concerning what P4P means to me, it just means how good a fighter is compared to another fighter from another division, obviously. What determines that is how dominate are they in their respective divisions. The reason why this doesn't work to much is because the competition at every weight class is different in terms of skill sets. It's not like boxing where everyone has one skill set and that's punching.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

edlavis88 said:


> I'm not saying Anderson hasn't fought great fighters he has just fought a few less good ones. With the exception of Hardy GSP has fought world class guys every fight in the last 3 years. Which to me makes his resume slightly more impressive. P4P is a subjective thing though so you'll never get a definitive answer on it.


I don't know, but I don't think you can argue like that. I don't see GSP's opponents as being better. On top of that Anderson fought in 3 weight divisions and beat the champ plus former champ in every single one of them. First man to ever beat Mach Sakurai. That feet alone puts him far ahead of George. And then you need to put into consideration on how easy he makes it look. Thats what makes the difference for me!


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Steroid Steve said:


> Concerning what P4P means to me, it just means how good a fighter is compared to another fighter from another division, obviously. What determines that is how dominate are they in their respective divisions. The reason why this doesn't work to much is because the competition at every weight class is different in terms of skill sets. It's not like boxing where everyone has one skill set and that's punching.


I agree but would add, The reason why it wont work is its not based in reality. P4P is a assumption that every fighter would somehow resemble themselves the way they are now in a different weight class. 

Are we taking Anthony Pettis up to heavyweight or Brock down to LW, either way the fighters would be so changed that you cant make any kind of accurate assumptions, you cant change a fighters dimensions without changing the fighters skill set. A 5'8 155lb Brock Lesnar would be a totally different fighter, for better or worse who's to say? 

P4P works better when the fighters you are comparing are close in weight class (like GSP vs Silva) but not at all when they are at different ends of the weight spectrum and because it wont work for all fighters it really shouldn't be used as a form of reference at all.


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## Cartheron (Sep 5, 2007)

Posting in a P4P thread.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

slapshot said:


> I agree but would add, The reason why it wont work is its not based in reality. P4P is a assumption that every fighter would somehow resemble themselves the way they are now in a different weight class.
> 
> Are we taking Anthony Pettis up to heavyweight or Brock down to LW, either way the fighters would be so changed that you cant make any kind of accurate assumptions, you cant change a fighters dimensions without changing the fighters skill set. A 5'8 155lb Brock Lesnar would be a totally different fighter, for better or worse who's to say?
> 
> P4P works better when the fighters you are comparing are close in weight class (like GSP vs Silva) but not at all when they are at different ends of the weight spectrum and because it wont work for all fighters it really shouldn't be used as a form of reference at all.


Oh I think you can very easily figure out the top 5 of a p4p list, when it gets higher then it's a little tricky I agree.

For your example, it's impossible to include a HW like Brock Lesnar to such a list or in the top5. You never know how much of that weight helps him with winning his fights.. something we already know about Silva and GSP.

You could make a case for the small HW's like Fedor was back then or Cain today. But I am totally against putting a HW anywhere close to the top 5 because p4p was introduced to give the smaller guys some recognition in Boxing.

With Anderson and GSP we know how they would do if they had a different frame, cause they are that great and only their pure skills win them fights.

And if they are unbeatable for 5 years, then GSP and Andy are 1 and 2 on such a list and everybody else comes below.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> With Anderson and GSP we know how they would do if they had a different frame, cause they are that great and only their pure skills win them fights.


Thats just pure garbage and you know it.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

slapshot said:


> Thats just pure garbage and you know it.


are you kidding?

don't you see how incredible skilled they are? That doesn't change if they were both natural 145.

I think it's probably a little to difficult for you to make a p4p list cause you don't know how it works.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

slapshot said:


> Thats just pure garbage and you know it.


Hey? He''s bang on the money.

It doesn't matter if Anderson or GSP were born to fight at heavy weight or born to fight at bantamweight. You would still see the same dominant fighters.


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

P4P rankings are flawed because the fighter may be able to physically lose/gain weight in order to make a fight but he may not be able to perform to his optimum at said weight.

GSP-Anderson Silva is the perfect debate, if Silva was to come down to 170 and lose people might say he wasn't able to handle losing so much weight and that it was unfair, also if GSP moved upto 185 people and lost people might say is not big enough for the weight class.

Personally i wish we would forget about P4P cos the concept is shit.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

AlexMac2010 said:


> This bs about anderson massively outweighing gsp is just not true, is dana whites videos blog AS said he was 197 (bearing in mind his fight is August 27th and the blog was pre UFC129), whereas multiple reports have GSP as weighing 194 before fights. Ok AS has a larger frame with longer limbs - but I guarantee you GSP is much stronger than AS and can outlift him at pretty much any excercise.
> Now the crap about it being unfair is outta the way - IMO Anderson beats GSP and is therefore undisputed pound for pound king.


Find me where Anderson faces somebody bigger. Anderson was as big as Forrest when they fought and Forrest is considered a huge 205. He was bigger than James Irvin. Don't kid yourself Anderson is a big guy, the fact that he has 3 inches in height and has long arms and legs just gives the illusion he is that skinny.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

gazh said:


> P4P rankings are flawed because the fighter may be able to physically lose/gain weight in order to make a fight but he may not be able to perform to his optimum at said weight.
> 
> *GSP-Anderson Silva is the perfect debate, if Silva was to come down to 170 and lose people might say he wasn't able to handle losing so much weight and that it was unfair, also if GSP moved upto 185 people and lost people might say is not big enough for the weight class.*
> 
> Personally i wish we would forget about P4P cos the concept is shit.


And thats why p4p has nothing to do with moving in weight or at least not much.

For example, Aldo can stay at 145 and go undefeated for the next 4, 5 years.. then he is the p4p king if Anderson and GSP start losing of course, otherwise they would of course be still ahead.

But if a guy at LW goes as well undefeated for the next 4, 5 years.. same as Aldo, but he also moves up and fight at WW for the title or just competes there as well, then he is of course ahead of Aldo.

Thats why Anderson is ahead these days, but there are also other factors like how easy they make it look and so on..


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Hey? He''s bang on the money.
> 
> It doesn't matter if Anderson or GSP were born to fight at heavy weight or born to fight at bantamweight. You would still see the same dominant fighters.


How would they be the same fighter when their physical dimensions have changed? To argue they would be the same is retarded.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

slapshot said:


> how would they be the same fighter when their physical dimensions have changed? To argue they would be the same is retarded.


either you really don't get it or you just don't want to.. :confused05:


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> either you really don't get it or you just don't want to.. :confused05:


You cant "get it" its a extremely flawed model. And Im not trying to bust your chops. Believe me I understand p4p rankings, Ive talked about them with a few fighters and we have had a few threads that went into depth about it. Im 38 year old Bobby and Ive followed combat sports for 25 years.



Even the term "pound for pound" is not well defined and means something different to just about everyone you talk to. Fighter have a lot of the ability's they have because of their body.

All it is to me is very sloppy guesswork. If you dont understand where Im coming from then I give up.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

slapshot said:


> You cant "get it" its a extremely flawed model. And Im not trying to bust your chops. Believe me I understand p4p rankings, Ive talked about them with a few fighters and we have had a few threads that went into depth about it. Im 38 year old Bobby and Ive followed combat sports for 25 years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The thing is slapshot, if you respond with something like "when their physical dimensions have changed?" then I can only assume that you don't understand how p4p rankings work.

It's not about that at all.. the important word here is Natural Physical dimension! Not when they would change.. they were born that way.

IF GSP was born with a FW frame.. IF Anderson was born with a LW frame.. thats what p4p is about. And obviously, they wouldn't be less skilled then, they would just carry a different body frame.


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## Steroid Steve (Oct 1, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Find me where Anderson faces somebody bigger. Anderson was as big as Forrest when they fought and Forrest is considered a huge 205. He was bigger than James Irvin. Don't kid yourself Anderson is a big guy, the fact that he has 3 inches in height and has long arms and legs just gives the illusion he is that skinny.












Griffin looks slightly bigger, and I highly doubt Anderson's walk around weight is Griffin's. I would say Griffin would classify as a "bigger opponent". Anderson is a lanky guy. He's definitely not stocky and ripped.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> The thing is slapshot, if you respond with something like "when their physical dimensions have changed?" then I can only assume that you don't understand how p4p rankings work.
> 
> It's not about that at all.. the important word here is Natural Physical dimension! Not when they would change.. they were born that way.
> 
> IF GSP was born with a FW frame.. IF Anderson was born with a LW frame.. thats what p4p is about. And obviously, they wouldn't be less skilled then, they would just carry a different body frame.


Different body frame = different fighter, Im sorry but you cant have a Brock Lesnar at 155 and have him be as effective of a fighter as a Brock at 265. Your asking me to imagine a 155 fighter that retains Brocks physical attributes and its a fallacy.

But I do realize you and some others feel differently.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Steroid Steve said:


> Griffin looks slightly bigger, and I highly doubt Anderson's walk around weight is Griffin's. I would say Griffin would classify as a "bigger opponent". Anderson is a lanky guy. He's definitely not stocky and ripped.


Both could fight at HW and he dose have a size/reach advantage, but my opinions are rarely popular.:thumb02:


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

That pic makes them look about the same size. Griffin has a couple inches, but the arms and torso look about the same.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Oh I think you can very easily figure out the top 5 of a p4p list, when it gets higher then it's a little tricky I agree.
> 
> *For your example, it's impossible to include a HW like Brock Lesnar to such a list or in the top5. You never know how much of that weight helps him with winning his fights.. something we already know about Silva and GSP.*
> 
> ...





slapshot said:


> Different body frame = different fighter, Im sorry but you cant have a Brock Lesnar at 155 and have him be as effective of a fighter as a Brock at 265. Your asking me to imagine a 155 fighter that retains Brocks physical attributes and its a fallacy.
> 
> But I do realize you and some others feel differently.


You clearly don't want to get it!

Thats fine.. just don't bother other people next time.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> You clearly don't want to get it!
> 
> Thats fine.. just don't bother other people next time.


Like bothering others is something you find offensive?


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

slapshot said:


> Like bothering others is something you find offensive?


ohh.. when it's intentional of course!


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Steroid Steve said:


> Griffin looks slightly bigger, and I highly doubt Anderson's walk around weight is Griffin's. I would say Griffin would classify as a "bigger opponent". Anderson is a lanky guy. He's definitely not stocky and ripped.


Forrest is considered a huge LHW and Anderson is only slightly smaller. AS would not even be a small LHW. Anderson is not stocky and ripped but he is not small, he looks slimmer because of the length of his limbs. Look hard at that pic of Anderson and Forrest. There shoulders are around the same height and there wrists are sitting about the same height but Forrest's arm is hanging close to straight while Andersons is bent considerably at he elbow. Compare the actual width of there arms, Forrests is only slightly larger . Anderson I would place a considerable bet is thicker muscle wise than GSP is and its is merely Anderson's length and added height that makes him appear slimmer.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

slapshot said:


> How would they be the same fighter when their physical dimensions have changed? To argue they would be the same is retarded.


What? GSP and Anderson were born fighters bro. Doesn't matter if GSP was born to be 5 foot 5, he'd still be a machine. They're both extremely gifted and would be tremendous fighters at any weight class.


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## "El Guapo" (Jun 25, 2010)

I dont get it. Ok AS looks bigger when he is at 205, im sure GSP would look bigger when he is at 185, irrelevant as far as p4p goes.
A ufc 129 video blog AS says he is 197 (not cutting or anything) GSP before either hardy or koscheck or someone was 194 - there was a thread about this i can pull it up if you want me to). Please note GSP trains 24/7 whereas silva does take brakes. GSP has literally minimal body fat 365/yr and is certainly skinnier than AS, and therefore has more muscle per pound. 
It really doesnt matter 'how big' AS looks when he has fought, but using facts to back up your opinion.
If AS is 197 now and GSP say is 195 pre-fight and they both cut down to 185, how can you say GSP has an advantage? Yes silva has a bigger frame (just like different fighters at the same weight??!!) but I would bet a large amount of money that GSP can easily outlift AS (seriously anyone doubting this??). These differences happen all the time to fighters in the same weight class (for example nate diaz and mcdonald).
People make a big tadoo about how GSP is at such a disadvantage and I wish people wouldnt make this excuse. However the fight goes down these guys ARE evenly matched and whoever wins it would be the p4p best.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Anderson Silva can say he is a Leprechaun but that doesn't make it so. 









Anderson Silva and a guy who fought most of his career at LHW and HW.











That is a LHW and one that struggled to make weight for that fight.











That is against Hendo who prefers to fight at 205 because of finding the weight cut hard. Notice Silva looks considerably larger. Take into consideration Silva is slouching while Dan is standing straight. 



I really don't get how people think that Silva is not walking into the cage at well over 200.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

I dont see a huge difference in muscle mass but thats just me.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Silva is huge. Watch his LHW fights, he is a big dude. It's not so much about muscle mass as it is about frame, and Silva could probably still look athletic at 230lb.


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