# key to beating gsp?



## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

ive been thinking about the WW division, and if you look close you'll notice theres no bjj wizard there, there are bjj black belts, but not guys who actually try and just finish fights with their bjj like maia

who has he beat that has amazing bjj? bj penn, sure...but the size advantage is a bitch and theres that whole grease thing

but really its easier to let GSP take you to the ground and submit him off your back than try to stuff one of his takedowns, the problem is in WW your either a striker or a wrestler

i think if maia were to drop to WW (he could do it right? if im not mistaken hes not that big and hes chubby at MW) he would have a really good chance against GSP

and theres always shields i guess

but what do you guys think? if GSP was to lose is it to someone with great TDD and sick striking or someone with sick TDs and BJJ? does any1 think maia would have a chance?:confused02:


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

GSP would just stand with Maia, where he is more superior imo.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

A friend and I discussed Maia beating him if he dropped down. But I'm not sure he would. You're right though, I think it'll take someone with amazing BJJ to beat him, unless he gets caught with a punch.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Have good enough takedown defense. That's about it really.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

AlphaDawg said:


> Have good enough takedown defense. That's about it really.


easier said than done...has there been ANYONE whos been able to stuff his takedowns? maybe chael could drop...he might be the only one to out wrestle him, but then he would just get KOed


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

You just have to be better than him to beat him because he doesn't make many mistakes. But nobody is better than GSP right now. Also, I really doubt Mia would submit GSP if it went to the ground. GSP's sub defense and top control are amazing.


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

AlphaDawg said:


> Have good enough takedown defense. That's about it really.


_And_ decent striking.

Cos, you'll need to stop his takedowns, and then knock him out. Or at least have good enough stand up to exhibit the ever confusing "octagon control"... ;p

I've always wondered if Maia would be able to make the cut... as George's bjj game, although active, isn't the prettiest stuff I've seen.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Well submission must be his weakness, why else would he grease up every time he faces a BJJ Black Belt, unfortunately he is allowed to get away with cheating so its going to be really hard to submit the cheat greasy a$$hole.

Serra has a sold and very under rated submission game, unfortunately when GSP won the title from him, he was covered in grease so Serra could not get a grip with his guard to show us his jitsu, instead he was forced to give up his back which lead to the TKO and GSP been champ.

Fcuking makes me sick every time I think about Serra vs GSP 2, Serra should of won via disqualification if there was any justice in that fight.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

diablo5597 said:


> You just have to be better than him to beat him because he doesn't make many mistakes. But nobody is better than GSP right now. Also, I really doubt Mia would submit GSP if it went to the ground. GSP's sub defense and top control are amazing.


well thats the thing, how do we know his sub defense is really that good? he hasnt faced elite bjj guys except for bj penn

would he really be able to escape subs from maia, jacare? he hasnt been REALLY tested yet in this department IMO


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Maybe...

Don't try to stop the takedown. Instead, go for a guillotine and work from there. Practice sub combos that can be setup from a guillotine position. Maybe guillotine -> triangle.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

diablo5597 said:


> You just have to be better than him to beat him because he doesn't make many mistakes. But nobody is better than GSP right now. Also, I really doubt Mia would submit GSP if it went to the ground. GSP's sub defense and top control are amazing.


His sub defence is having his corner grease him up between rounds, you have to hand it to him tho, its very effective.



Trix said:


> Maybe...
> 
> Don't try to stop the takedown. Instead, go for a guillotine and work from there. Practice sub combos that can be setup from a guillotine position. Maybe guillotine -> triangle.


You forget that its near impossible to get the grip you need to work him in such positions because he will just slip right out of it thanks to the grease he uses during his fights.

GSP is a lying, cheating greasy a$$hole end of, and while he is allowed to get away with it, his greasy sub defence is going to get him out of all submissions.

The key to beating GSP is having the commission come down hard on his, stripping of him of his title and making a real example of him, lets see how good his sub defence is then


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

KillerShark1985 said:


> His sub defence is having his corner grease him up between rounds
> 
> 
> 
> You forget that its near impossible to get the grip you need to work him in such positions because he will just slip right out of it thanks to the grease he uses during his fights.


Why don't you tell us how you really feel? This is beating a dead horse. His corner cannot grease him up between rounds anymore. The rules have changed. They watch for this kind of thing now.

DO I personally believe that it was an intentional cheat? No. There has been no evidence of that.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> You forget that its near impossible to get the grip you need to work him in such positions because he will just slip right out of it thanks to the grease he uses during his fights.



In a perfect world you could maintain a hold on GSP's arm as he slips out of the guillotine to put him in a perfect position to lock a triangle on his ass from full guard.

Beats me, I bet Werdum would know.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

deadmanshand said:


> Why don't you tell us how you really feel? This is beating a dead horse. His corner cannot grease him up between rounds anymore. The rules have changed. They watch for this kind of thing now.
> 
> DO I personally believe that it was an intentional cheat? No. There has been no evidence of that.


does not chance the fact he has been greased up every time he has faced a dangerous submission expert or BJJ Black Belt, Serra, Penn been the black belts, Sherk, Hughes even Mayhem all have very dangerous submission games and he used grease against them all.

So whatever anyone may think of his submission defence, his entire career to date his sub defence has been aided by grease.



Trix said:


> In a perfect world you could maintain a hold on GSP's arm as he slips out of the guillotine to put him in a perfect position to lock a triangle on his ass from full guard.
> 
> Beats me, I bet Werdum would know.


If you want to watch how easy it is to hold full guard on a greased GSP just watch GSP vs Serra 2, and you will see why that position is near impossible to hold on him.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

KillerShark1985 said:


> does not chance the fact he has been greased up every time he has faced a dangerous submission expert or BJJ Black Belt, Serra, Penn been the black belts, Sherk, Hughes even Mayhem all have very dangerous submission games and he used grease against them all.
> 
> So whatever anyone may think of his submission defence, his entire career to date his sub defence has been aided by grease.


According to you and some very badly edited videos online. Not according to any regulatory committee or the UFC. According to BJ Penn and a few half hearted comments from Matt Hughes. Let's see 2 dicks and some badly edited footage versus reality... I'm going to have to go with number 2.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

ACTAFOOL said:


> well thats the thing, how do we know his sub defense is really that good? he hasnt faced elite bjj guys except for bj penn
> 
> would he really be able to escape subs from maia, jacare? he hasnt been REALLY tested yet in this department IMO


Sub defence isn't just getting out of sub attempts, it's also the process of knowing how to position yourself on the ground so the other fighter doesn't get a chance to attempt a sub in the first place.

I'm not as familiar with Jacare's sub skills so I won't comment there, but with Maia, I'm pretty sure GSP can stay out of his subs. Demian Maia is well known for his submissions, but contrary to most peoples' opinions, going to ground with Maia is not an instant death sentence. It took him a good 3 rounds of work to sub Jason MacDonald and despite a ton of time spent on the ground he had little luck getting Cole Miller into a bad position. While it's not a bright idea for GSP to hang around on the ground with Maia, it's nowhere close to a guaranteed win for Maia even if he could get GSP down to the mat.

The problem is you need to get GSP down to sub him, and you need to have good enough standup to survive until you can do so. I can't think of any fighters with that particular mix of skills. Taking him out standing isn't much easier, GSP probably has the best technical striking in the WW division with his use of range, angles and timing. Catching him again after what Serra did to him the first time isn't going to be easy plus you need to avoid his takedowns unless you're a ground whiz who can sub him. I can't think of anyone with that mix of skills either, Koscheck could keep it standing but his striking is rudimentary compared to GSP's.

If I were to come up with a key for beating GSP for the fighters that in the UFC, it basically comes down to a flying scissors leg lock or an all-out Wandy style blitz. Until someone puts together Kos' wrestling, Maia's sub game, Thiago Alves' striking, and Jon Fitch's mental and physical toughness, you're not going to beat GSP with a conventional strategy.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

deadmanshand said:


> According to you and some very badly edited videos online. Not according to any regulatory committee or the UFC. According to BJ Penn and a few half hearted comments from Matt Hughes. Let's see 2 dicks and some badly edited footage versus reality... I'm going to have to go with number 2.


watching the full fight of Serra vs GSP 2 does not lie, you can see very clear that serra's guard keeps slipping down his back and he is unable to hold the position, GSP does not even have to try to pass guard, the guard just slips, he keeps trying to raise his guard higher up his back but it just keeps slipping down, till adventually he is forced to give up trying to hold guard because his back is to slipping and switch to half guard, from where he was forced to give up his back. On top of which you see his corner rubbing it on at the end of round one.

Shit like that is not natural, defend him all you like but he is a fcuking cheat its simple as that.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

KillerShark1985 said:


> His sub defence is having his corner grease him up between rounds, you have to hand it to him tho, its very effective.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your such a troll. I'd love to see you say that to GSP's face so he can beat the shit out of you.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

diablo5597 said:


> Your such a troll. I'd love to see you say that to GSP's face so he can beat the shit out of you.


dude you have no idea how much I would love to say that to his face, and if given the chance I would, if they ever did a fan expose over in London or somewhere near where I live and GSP was there, I would go for sure just to say that to GSP, I would tell him straight up that I believe with 100% certainly that he was greased up when he won the title and describe the fight exactly as I saw it, and if he denied it as am sure he would I would tell him that he is nothing but a lier and a cheat.

he could kick my ass no doubt but would he? no, if he did it would be worth if for the amount I would sue his ass for.

In fact I hope he reads this post so he can see what a cheat I think, even know he is.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

aerius said:


> Sub defence isn't just getting out of sub attempts, it's also the process of knowing how to position yourself on the ground so the other fighter doesn't get a chance to attempt a sub in the first place.
> 
> I'm not as familiar with Jacare's sub skills so I won't comment there, but with Maia, I'm pretty sure GSP can stay out of his subs. Demian Maia is well known for his submissions, but contrary to most peoples' opinions, going to ground with Maia is not an instant death sentence. It took him a good 3 rounds of work to sub Jason MacDonald and despite a ton of time spent on the ground he had little luck getting Cole Miller into a bad position. While it's not a bright idea for GSP to hang around on the ground with Maia, it's nowhere close to a guaranteed win for Maia even if he could get GSP down to the mat.
> 
> ...


you have a good point but even though its not certain that maia would sub gsp if it goes to the ground lets remember its a 5 round fight

i really dont think GSP would be able to avoid maia's subs for 25 minutes...the problem is maia would have a lot of trouble taking him down but he does have a nice size advantage

but yeah i agree, to beat GSP you gotta just be amazing...sick striking, sick wrestling, and sick BJJ skills or just sick striking and bjj but still..i dont see anyone like that in WW

but i still think AS could beat him, stand up he would KO him and on the ground i think his long limbs could submit GSP....but i guess we gotta wait to find out the true answer


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

KillerShark1985 said:


> His sub defence is having his corner grease him up between rounds, you have to hand it to him tho, its very effective.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i dont want to turn this into a GSP bashing thread, even though i agree with the greasing lets just let that go, its in the past and he cant grease anymore, they really look out for that kind of stuff now

though his supposed greasing is a sign that hes not a fan of bjj


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

diablo5597 said:


> Your such a troll. I'd love to see you say that to GSP's face so he can beat the shit out of you.


If KillerShark could get hold of the greased up numpty, he'd wipe the floor with him. It's impossible to beat Georges when he's covered from head to toe in grease like the Greased Up Deaf Guy from Family Guy though. If the Athletic Commission just stepped in, Georges would return to his rightful place at the bottom of the 170lb division fighting Jon Koppenhaver and James Wilks. 










Graphical representation of the Georges St-Pierre vs KillerShark1985 fight. Cheating bastard.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

ACTAFOOL said:


> i really dont think GSP would be able to avoid maia's subs for 25 minutes...the problem is maia would have a lot of trouble taking him down but he does have a nice size advantage
> 
> but yeah i agree, to beat GSP you gotta just be amazing...sick striking, sick wrestling, and sick BJJ skills or just sick striking and bjj but still..i dont see anyone like that in WW
> 
> but i still think AS could beat him, stand up he would KO him and on the ground i think his long limbs could submit GSP....but i guess we gotta wait to find out the true answer


After thinking about it some more, I think Palhares would have a better chance of subbing GSP than Maia. Maia's ground game depends more on methodically working and advancing his position for a sub which gives his opponents more time & chances to screw up Maia's sub setup and make him start all over again. Palhares has a much more explosive style on the ground, he gets the guy down and seconds later he's broken the guy's leg or taken his arm off. The powerful explosive style of BJJ would match up a lot better against GSP, it doesn't give him time to escape or counter.

As for Anderson Silva, yeah, I also give the advantage to him against GSP. When Silva turns it on and fights for real his skills are just ridiculous.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

KillerShark1985 said:


> dude you have no idea how much I would love to say that to his face, and if given the chance I would, if they ever did a fan expose over in London or somewhere near where I live and GSP was there, I would go for sure just to say that to GSP, I would tell him straight up that I believe with 100% certainly that he was greased up when he won the title and describe the fight exactly as I saw it, and if he denied it as am sure he would I would tell him that he is nothing but a lier and a cheat.
> 
> he could kick my ass no doubt but would he? no, if he did it would be worth if for the amount I would sue his ass for.
> 
> In fact I hope he reads this post so he can see what a cheat I think, even know he is.


Yes because he would be horribly hurt by one troll proclaiming his cheating ways and would love to hear what you have to say about him....

...or we can go with reality. Which would be him not caring what you have to say much like us not caring about what you have to say because no one listens to a barking dog. If all you do is foam at the mouth and make accusations no on will take you seriously or even respect your opinion.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

deadmanshand said:


> Yes because he would be horribly hurt by one troll proclaiming his cheating ways and would love to hear what you have to say about him....
> 
> ...or we can go with reality. Which would be him not caring what you have to say much like us not caring about what you have to say because no one listens to a barking dog. If all you do is foam at the mouth and make accusations no on will take you seriously or even respect your opinion.


Sure we should all just hang off GSP nuts and respect him as one of the greatest fighters of his generation and just completely overlook the fact he is a cheat, sorry my mistake.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

aerius said:


> After thinking about it some more, I think Palhares would have a better chance of subbing GSP than Maia. Maia's ground game depends more on methodically working and advancing his position for a sub which gives his opponents more time & chances to screw up Maia's sub setup and make him start all over again. Palhares has a much more explosive style on the ground, he gets the guy down and seconds later he's broken the guy's leg or taken his arm off. The powerful explosive style of BJJ would match up a lot better against GSP, it doesn't give him time to escape or counter.
> 
> As for Anderson Silva, yeah, I also give the advantage to him against GSP. When Silva turns it on and fights for real his skills are just ridiculous.


damn i forgot about Palhares, his explosive style would be great against GSP...that heel hook was so fast, thats a match i really want to see...but GSP would probably just stand also, would be tough to get the TD...though the same can be said about maia...still, interesting match up indeed:thumb02: if he can defend Palhares' subs I wont question his sub defense anymore:thumbsup:


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

I think the only way to really beat GSP is stuff his takedown and stand with him. Standing with him is no picnic either but thats his"weak" spot and even then he's very good at standing. You just have to take the Matt Serra approach really, stand with him and not let him take you down and hope you get the knock out or win by points.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Yes. Let us tarnish his legacy because one man believes he's cheating. There is only one know instance of this event happening and not even the NSAC believe it was intentional because of that and him easily beating Matt Serra from within his guard we should call him a liar and a cheat. 

Down with GSP! He defeated the might submission master Matt Serra who has subbed many, many fighters from his guard... oh wait it was only 3. 

Well surely they are great fighters... what do you mean you've never heard of any of these guys?

Since it obviously happened recently in mma's evolution... what do you mean the last was 8 years ago?

Well, shit. When you put it that way it sounds like he doesn't have a very dangerous guard in mma. Maybe even the kind of guard that a wrestler of GSPs caliber could go through rather casually.

Damn.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

deadmanshand said:


> Well, shit. When you put it that way it sounds like he doesn't have a very dangerous guard in mma. Maybe even the kind of guard that a wrestler of GSPs caliber could go through rather casually.
> 
> Damn.


watch the fight in fact here is the video 





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBo9OvRp7Yc

and you tell me if the way his guard keeps slipping looks natural to you, wtf is GSP doing to make that happen if its not grease


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I don't see him losing on the ground. The key is catching him while trading, or if Georges has a really, really bad day.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

I've actually seen the fight multiple times and I've seen that kind of slippage before in training. It doesn't look unnatural to me. Some guys have a hard time keeping a grip once somebody starts sweating. Serra is one of those guys. It has to do with short legs and a lack of real leverage.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

When exactly did his guard slip? When Serra's leg was moving from Georges back down to the leg from half guard, he was doing that on purpose, to wrap GSP's leg up, to stop him from passing to side control. Then in full guard later in the round, Serra's guard moving down was due to Georges moving and attempting to posture up. When someone postures up like that, it's just natural for the guard to move down. It wasn't randomly slipping down Georges's back as soon as Serra tried to utilise a higher guard. As soon as Serra tried to control GSP by using the higher guard, GSP would adjust his hips and posture up. No evidence of greasing in that video for me at all.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Danm2501 said:


> When exactly did his guard slip? When Serra's leg was moving from Georges back down to the leg from half guard, he was doing that on purpose, to wrap GSP's leg up, to stop him from passing to side control. Then in full guard later in the round, Serra's guard moving down was due to Georges moving and attempting to posture up. When someone postures up like that, it's just natural for the guard to move down. It wasn't randomly slipping down Georges's back as soon as Serra tried to utilise a higher guard. As soon as Serra tried to control GSP by using the higher guard, GSP would adjust his hips and posture up. No evidence of greasing in that video for me at all.


Hey now. Don't be using facts or examples or logic in this thread. Only baseless accusations or sarcasm can be used here. Maybe with a light sprinkling of mockery but no logic. Definitely not allowed.

As for actually beating GSP that's a hard call. He's very well rounded. His only two losses have pretty much been flash losses. Not to take anything away from either of the Matts. He's good on his feet and great on the ground. And no one is better at dictating where the fight goes.

The only likely options are someone with great tdd and powerful, precise striking. Force him to stand up and ko him. Not easy to do. Or someone with a phenomenal game from his back who can tie him up and submit him. Again not easy.


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

I'd like to see a bulked up Sotiropoulos at 170...

Solid boxing, and a sick ground game.

(yeah, I know, should probably temper the Soti hype until he solidifies a top LW ranking, but I just think stylistically, it would be an intriguing matchup)


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

knock him out.

most guys dont fight that well, knocked out.

Matt Lindland is a rare exception, he fights like Marcus Davis when he is knocked out.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

I don't agree with GSP just winning due to grease, thats kind of ridiculous...he's not my favourite fighter but he is without a doubt the best WW in thee world at this moment. he is very well rounded and i don't see that there is "one" skill to beating him. What you need is a guy that is as good and well rounded as he is. No 1 skill is gonna beat him because he will just change his strategy, since he's pretty good over all. I'd say he has Good+ striking, great wrestling and as far as i know atleast good BJJ...maybe not great but hell he IS a blackbelt with great posture, positioning, strength and speed...so i wouldn't say BJJ is his weakness either.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Serra has a sold and very under rated submission game, unfortunately when GSP won the title from him, he was covered in grease so Serra could not get a grip with his guard to show us his jitsu, instead he was forced to give up his back which lead to the TKO and GSP been champ.
> 
> Fcuking makes me sick every time I think about Serra vs GSP 2, Serra should of won via disqualification if there was any justice in that fight.


LOL, oh yeah Matt Serra's deadly BJJ. The guy hasn't submitted anyone in the UFC since 2002 and the only guys he subbed were clueless on the ground. He's never come close to subbing anyone decent but oh yeah, if only GSP hadn't greased up THEN we'd have seen Serra effortlessly sub him. Wheeeeee.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

LOL at this blantant dismissal of cheating. GreaseSP better hope he doesn't fight a guy who can stuff his takedowns.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

> easier said than done...has there been ANYONE whos been able to stuff his takedowns?


Well of course it's easier said than done, I'm just saying takedown defense is the key. And I'm not sure who did it but GSP has been stuffed before. In the GSP vs Penn 2, they did his wrestling stats and he gets around 70% of his takedown attempts. 



ACTAFOOL said:


> maybe chael could drop...he might be the only one to out wrestle him, but then he would just get KOed


Did you just imply that GSP would KO Chael Sonnen? LOL.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Koscheck did for sure.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> does not chance the fact he has been greased up every time he has faced a dangerous submission expert or BJJ Black Belt, Serra, Penn been the black belts, Sherk, Hughes even Mayhem all have very dangerous submission games and he used grease against them all.
> 
> So whatever anyone may think of his submission defence, his entire career to date his sub defence has been aided by grease.





KillerShark1985 said:


> dude you have no idea how much I would love to say that to his face, and if given the chance I would, if they ever did a fan expose over in London or somewhere near where I live and GSP was there, I would go for sure just to say that to GSP, I would tell him straight up that I believe with 100% certainly that he was greased up when he won the title and describe the fight exactly as I saw it, and if he denied it as am sure he would I would tell him that he is nothing but a lier and a cheat.
> 
> he could kick my ass no doubt but would he? no, if he did it would be worth if for the amount I would sue his ass for.
> 
> In fact I hope he reads this post so he can see what a cheat I think, even know he is.




12 times. You've used the word "grease" 12 times.
You really must like grease dude! Or, for that reason, hate it.
But i just don't get it: how do you know all that stuff about GSP greasing?! Were you in GSP's corner? Are you GSP's grease supplier?! There were those accusations in the BJ fight, but i think that must explain GSP outstriking BJ and taking him down at will. The same with Fitch, Alves, Hardy, Hughes x2. In fact in the second Hughes fight it's so obvious that head-kick is the clear result of "greasing". Even when he outstrikes his opponents and outwrestles them, it's "THE GREASE"!!!
Damn...i tried to be irronic, but i can't go further. :sarcastic12:

On a more serious note, on topic: i think the key to beating GSP is taking him out of his comfort zone: his wrestling. But that means having a better wrestling than him, and at this moment i don't think there is a better fighter with better wrestling and better strategy than GSP.
Because, only a better wrestler could hold his own against GSP. Only a better wrestler could keep GSP from not taking him down. And if somehow that happens, that fighter would need to have very good striking, in order to match GSP's striking. And if GSP takes that fighter down, he needs to have very good BJJ, not just a black belt, like BJ or Jon Fitch for example, but something like Demian Maia or Palhares BJJ skills. Because, atm i think GSP is such a powerful fighter that he could control any WW on the ground. His guard passing and his top control are the best in the UFC atm imo. And if you combine that with his BJJ skills, you get the picture. I don't think he can be beaten atm on the ground by any WW. Maybe if he does something like Fedor, in the Werdum fight...
That being said, i would say the best way on beating GSP is to be patient, run from him for a while, make him follow you, in order to take you down, and try to counter strike him with a big haymaker. But that just sounds sci-fi for now.
Don't get me wrong: i don't wanna sound like GSP is invincible, because i think he's not. But since his loss to Serra, he has elevated his game to a hole new level, that sometimes you just get that idea. Talent, skills, hard training, dedication, great work ethic...combined with Greg Jackson strategy. It just works.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

AlphaDawg said:


> Well of course it's easier said than done, I'm just saying takedown defense is the key. And I'm not sure who did it but GSP has been stuffed before. In the GSP vs Penn 2, they did his wrestling stats and he gets around 70% of his takedown attempts.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you just imply that GSP would KO Chael Sonnen? LOL.


ok not actually KOed cuz GSP cant KO his mom but UD with a f*cked up face:thumb02:....just easier to say KOed lol


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## shadowizar (Feb 1, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> Yes. Let us tarnish his legacy because one man believes he's cheating. There is only one know instance of this event happening and not even the NSAC believe it was intentional because of that and him easily beating Matt Serra from within his guard we should call him a liar and a cheat.
> 
> Down with GSP! He defeated the might submission master Matt Serra who has subbed many, many fighters from his guard... oh wait it was only 3.
> 
> ...


Logic? On the Internet? Not allowed, don't do that shit again. You'll give the rest of us a bad name.


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## zarny (Mar 4, 2007)

I think too many people miss what GSP's most dangerous skill is. 

It isn't his wrestling or takedowns; it is his ability to mix all of his skills. He is a true mixed martial artist.

Sick striking with great TDD or great TD with sick BJJ...it doesn't matter. Any fighter that only has two will get pwned.

Fitch, Alves, Penn, Hardy...they all had the same deer-in-the-headlights look because they had no clue what was coming. 

They knew at some point a TD was coming and they knew at some point GSP would throw a superman punch followed by a leg kick. 

They just never know which one was next. Drop their hands to defend the TD and get punched in the face. Raise their hands a bit and they get put on their back.

Obviously in mma any fighter can get caught; but my guess is the fighter to beat GSP will be one who can compete with him in all areas of the sport.



KillerShark1985 said:


> His sub defence is having his corner grease him up between rounds, you have to hand it to him tho, its very effective.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





LMAO...you know sweet f--k all about whether or not GSP has ever greased.

And that is simple fact. Everything you have said is based on innuendo and gossip.

And that says more about you than it does GSP.


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## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

High caliber wrestler with good striking and chin is what I would send against him. Someone with a skillset similar with Hendo's for example, and Koscheck isn't a guy like that.


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## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

ACTAFOOL said:


> well thats the thing, how do we know his sub defense is really that good? he hasnt faced elite bjj guys except for bj penn
> 
> would he really be able to escape subs from maia, jacare? he hasnt been REALLY tested yet in this department IMO


Yeh agree. Then again, as someone said earlier, imagine he will just make a fight with someone of Jacare/Maias BJJ ability a stand up fight!


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

Serra is world class BJJ.

GSP rolled up on him like Christopher Reeves.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> Serra is world class BJJ.
> 
> GSP rolled up on him like Christopher Reeves.


well, kind of, he does have nice credentials but he cant seem to use his bjj in mma, its not like he has a habit of submitting guys, hes no maia, nog, jacare, etc etc


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, but GSP's BJJ is pretty good as well. Not on Serra's level but at a good enough of a level that he was able to counter Serra's BJJ and eventually TKO him!:thumbsup:


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

kantowrestler said:


> Yeah, but GSP's BJJ is pretty good as well. Not on Serra's level but at a good enough of a level that he was able to counter Serra's BJJ and eventually TKO him!:thumbsup:


his bjj is good, hes a bjj black belt, im not saying he sucks at it, but i just think an elite bjj guy might be able to sub him, i think its easier than trying to stuff his TDs and out striking him:confused02: but thats what i want to find out...but there arent guys like that at WW


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Superior wrestling and BJJ.

I think Jake Shields is GSPs biggest threat.... GSP has great TDD.

But we haven't see ANYBODY stuff Jake for an entire fight.. and Jake has fought some world class competition..
I think Jake and GSP have about equal wrestling.... but Jake is way ahead of GSP in submission skills and BJJ.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, GSP would have the advantage standing and in a case with Shields it would be to his benefit to keep the fight standing. However, I disagree that Shields and GSP's wrestling is equal, Shields wrestling is superior and as you said, he has the advantage in BJJ. Basically GSP would need to end the fight standing or else risk being submitted for the first time in his career!


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## astrallite (Mar 14, 2010)

ACTAFOOL said:


> easier said than done...has there been ANYONE whos been able to stuff his takedowns? maybe chael could drop...he might be the only one to out wrestle him, but then he would just get KOed


Chael cuts weight from 220+, if he had to make 170 he'd be as shaky as Anthony Johnson.


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## endersshadow (Mar 10, 2010)

diablo5597 said:


> GSP's sub defense and top control are amazing.


GSP blankets you from the top. He gives absolutely no space for submissions.

Also, Penn has horrible submissions from his back (as evidence of the GSP and Edgar fights).

I agree that the WW division is full of strikers and wrestlers. The wrestlers aren't as good as GSP and the strikers will get taken down and held down. I do think Maia and Sonnen would pose serious threats to GSP.

GSP may try to stand with Sonnen. If that's the case, GSP would get taken for a ride because it's take down or be taken down in that fight. I think GSP has better control on top though...

Maia is pretty darn good at taking people down. Heck, he got Sonnen down. Maia didn't take Silva down because Silva has KO power and has unpredictable movement. GSP doesn't really have KO power and is more readable IMO. However, I think if GSP got on top of Maia, Maia would be like a guy trapped under a fat woman.


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## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> Basically GSP would need to end the fight standing or else risk being submitted for the first time in his career!


GSP has been submitted by Hughes.

On the Chael note, he has been training a LOT on his strength recently, apparently the difference between him now and just a couple years ago, is incredible from those who work in the gym with him! 

Personally, I think the only man who could beat GSP in WW is Shields, far superior BJJ. I also think this is why GSP is going to use more stand-up against Kos, he is going to be the test and 'training partner' to both practice more TDD and striking in a live environment in preperation for what will almost definately be a next fight against Shields from what I hear. In the wrestling department, I wouldn't say Jake has better wrestling than GSP, will be very interesting to see them go head to head though.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Superior wrestling and BJJ.
> 
> I think Jake Shields is GSPs biggest threat.... GSP has great TDD.
> 
> ...


There's one key difference: GSP is an athlete. Shields is slow as a slug and as graceful as quasimodo. 

Having said that, both fighters bore me to tears. 

Oh, GSP easily.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

michelangelo said:


> There's one key difference: GSP is an athlete. Shields is slow as a slug and as graceful as quasimodo.
> 
> Having said that, both fighters bore me to tears.
> 
> Oh, GSP easily.


I don't believe Shields wrestling is superior to GSP. GSP has fought amazing wrestlers before and worked them in wrestling. I know Shields worked Hendo, but Hendo is a greco wrestler (upper body). I give shields better BJJ, but Serra and Hughes also had better BJJ and we saw how that turned out. GSP also easily wins the standup. GSP > Shields and the whole division. He's the most dominant fighter in the UFC right now. Brock and Silva have both shown big weaknesses in their last fights (even though they won). GSP is all by his lonesome on the top of the p4p ladder right now.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I don't believe Shields wrestling is superior to GSP. GSP has fought amazing wrestlers before and worked them in wrestling. I know Shields worked Hendo, but Hendo is a greco wrestler (upper body). I give shields better BJJ, but Serra and Hughes also had better BJJ and we saw how that turned out. GSP also easily wins the standup. GSP > Shields and the whole division. He's the most dominant fighter in the UFC right now. Brock and Silva have both shown big weaknesses in their last fights (even though they won). GSP is all by his lonesome on the top of the p4p ladder right now.


well its easier when his division is tailor made for him, GSP has faced 2 types of competition really, strikers and wrestlers, mostly wrestlers

while AS has faced strikers, wrestlers, and bjj guys...i say AS is more impressive, the only reason he has a ''hole'' in his game is because hes facing every type of opponent but even with this ''hole'' he has skills that fills it up, his bjj from his back makes it dangerous to take him down

until GSP faces an elite level BJJ guy that actually submits ppl in mma and doesnt just use it defensively we wont know if he has any holes in his game or notm i believe his weak point is BJJ even though hes no slouch at it, i just think thats where someone has the best chance at catching him:thumbsup:


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

Punching him in the face.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

MrObjective said:


> Punching him in the face.


Agreed...GSP does have a suspect chin I think...
What is needed is a Chuck clone at WW (i.e. Amazing TDD, and sick punching power...)...


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

suniis said:


> Agreed...GSP does have a suspect chin I think...
> What is needed is a Chuck clone at WW (i.e. Amazing TDD, and sick punching power...)...


I don't think you can make a statement saying that GSP has a suspect chin with any degree of accuracy seeing that he has only been TKO'd one time in his career.


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## LuckyPunch (Aug 31, 2010)

right now, i dont see anybody beating gsp.(at least in WW9 hes just too well rounded.

So maybe one day there will be somebody but right now i doubt it!


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I don't think you can make a statement saying that GSP has a suspect chin with any degree of accuracy seeing that he has only been TKO'd one time in his career.


Fair enough...however, he didn't react very well when hit, and hasn't stood up too too much against his opponents since then (except for Fitch whose stand up is meh)...

I still think that is his biggest/only weakness....


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I had pictures on my other computer but Gsp took some clean shots from Alves in that fight and looked fine. He got hit with a really good shot from Serra and Serra did an outstanding job in giving GSP absolutely no time at all to recover. It happens.


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

AlphaDawg said:


> Have good enough takedown defense. That's about it really.


I agree. I think if you could stuff his takedowns you could rough him up on the feet. Not saying his stand up is bad my any means. In fact, there's really nothing in GSP's game that is bad. However, I think the stand up game is your best bet. His wrestling is so dominant and his cardio so developed that grappling with him is obviously a nightmare.

His stand up is sharp and he mixes it up well with straight punches, leg kicks, spinning back kicks and Superman punches, but none of it is overwhelming. I think somebody could rough him up on the feet. 

Still, that's a very hypothetical "someone." Right now GSP is the undisputed king and #1 at WW.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I had pictures on my other computer but Gsp took some clean shots from Alves in that fight and looked fine. He got hit with a really good shot from Serra and Serra did an outstanding job in giving GSP absolutely no time at all to recover. It happens.


once again...fair enough...


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## evzbc (Oct 11, 2006)




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## gosuu (Sep 23, 2007)

Be a better "mixed martial artist". GSP has great wrestling and good striking but his wreslting itself isn't incredible. It's his ability to always be unpredictable which makes his wrestling effective. When you think he's going to strike, he takes you down and vice versa. 

In short, I think you just have to and try to set the pace. Don't think about defending the take down or trying to take him down. Go in there and make him think about those things. I realize this is a lot easier said than done because if not someone would've beaten him already haha.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

gotta agree, everybody reacts to GSP.

you gotta make him react to you. do your thing and impose it on him. obv mad easier said than done  but most guys come in trying to worry about GSPs game, making adjustments etc and never get their own strengths going.

Alves is a good example, he never completely let go, no real big kicks cuz scared of TDs and adjusted so much, he looked horrible.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

That is exactly why GSP's MMA wrestling is the best. MMA wrestling and pure wrestling are two entirely different things. GSP times his opponents perfectly. It is because of his timing that everyone starts to react to what he does.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

setting up your TDs is MORE important than the quality and technique of your TDs in MMA.

If you can catch ppl off guard, off balance etc etc its a tremendous advantage.

i dont think GSP could straight outwrestle all the top guys but because of timing, i agree. His tecnique is still very good but i dont think he is the best wrestler but the best MMA wrestler.

Also why i rank Cain very highly yet nobody else does. Watch how he sets up his TDs and Chain wrestles ppl, its a treat.

Guys like Brock go for a big double leg, if it doesnt work, they back off. He also doesnt set up his TDs with strikes very well.

anyways, sorry for OT rant, your thoughts on GSPs standing in wrestling got me off track


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

The key? Be a better MMA wrestler than him. So far, no one at 170 pounds has shown they are.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

michelangelo said:


> There's one key difference: GSP is an athlete. Shields is slow as a slug and as graceful as quasimodo.
> 
> Having said that, both fighters bore me to tears.
> 
> Oh, GSP easily.


Shields is as strong as a bull. Don't mistake patience with slowness. He calculates as he fights.. he finishes his opponents..

If you make a mistake he will finish you..

8 of his last 10 fights he won by stoppage before the end of the second round.. if that's boaring to you than, well I don't know what to say......


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Chael Sonnen would maul GSP. Chael would push the pace from the bell and impose his will on George. He isnt going to worry sbout gsps's striking/take downs combinations. Hes going to bull rush GSp from the get go with strikes and take downs of his own. GSP doesnt have the. BJJ to sub sonnen from his back either.

I would love to see sonnen drop down just to do it, it really would be a treat to see GSP get a taste of his own medicine for 5 rounds, come out a battered mess and lose his title.

And lol at people denying he greased. BJ Penn has called it, matt hughes, jason miller, sean sherk and kenny florian. Hes as slippery as an eel. Greaseball.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Calibretto9 said:


> I think if you could stuff his takedowns you could rough him up on the feet. Not saying his stand up is bad my any means. In fact, there's really nothing in GSP's game that is bad. However, I think the stand up game is your best bet. His wrestling is so dominant and his cardio so developed that grappling with him is obviously a nightmare.
> 
> His stand up is sharp and he mixes it up well with straight punches, leg kicks, spinning back kicks and Superman punches, but none of it is overwhelming. I think somebody could rough him up on the feet.


Yes and no, in a way. Atm i think only Shields and possibly Koscheck could stuff his TD. Bigger chances for Shields imo.
But that isn't enough. Like you've said: His all-arround stand-up game is so evolved, mainly because of the way he is mixing things up. His opponents just don't know what to expect: straight punches, Superman punches, spinning punch/elbows, leg kicks. He keeps his opponents guessing, and by the time they decide how to approach him, they get hit or taken down. Or both. 
GSP has the best strategies atm. He breaks down his opponents: tactically, mentally, physically. Some might call it playing safe, but seing how he has the "Serra experience" behind him, it's easier to understand why.



Mckeever said:


> Chael Sonnen would maul GSP. Chael would push the pace from the bell and impose his will on George. He isnt going to worry sbout gsps's striking/take downs combinations. Hes going to bull rush GSp from the get go with strikes and take downs of his own. GSP doesnt have the. BJJ to sub sonnen from his back either.
> 
> I would love to see sonnen drop down just to do it, it really would be a treat to see GSP get a taste of his own medicine for 5 rounds, come out a battered mess and lose his title.
> 
> And lol at people denying he greased. BJ Penn has called it, matt hughes, jason miller, sean sherk and kenny florian. Hes as slippery as an eel. Greaseball.


It would be interesting to see the best wrestlers in the UFC go at it, but Cgael is too big to make the cut without being drained afterwards. And i don't think he would dominate GSP like you say. I think it would be a case of who gets the TD first. That fighter would have control of that round imo. Chael would just try and GnP, while GSP would try and transition, pass guard in order to set up submissions. Chael can't do that.
It would be an interesting fight though.
And PS: is there something with you UK guys?!You and KillerShark are the only one who keep going on and on about "the greasing". Do you really believe the stuff you are writting down, about this subject? Do you really believe he achieved all those victories using grease??! Got any real proof or you just like to talk about this?


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

*the perfect method for beating GSP*

The perfect method for beating GSP is obvious. Wait until he's a sleep and then beat him with a stick. That's the only way he can be beat at 170.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

limba said:


> Yes and no, in a way. Atm i think only Shields and possibly Koscheck could stuff his TD. Bigger chances for Shields imo.
> But that isn't enough. Like you've said: His all-arround stand-up game is so evolved, mainly because of the way he is mixing things up. His opponents just don't know what to expect: straight punches, Superman punches, spinning punch/elbows, leg kicks. He keeps his opponents guessing, and by the time they decide how to approach him, they get hit or taken down. Or both.
> GSP has the best strategies atm. He breaks down his opponents: tactically, mentally, physically. Some might call it playing safe, but seing how he has the "Serra experience" behind him, it's easier to understand why.
> 
> ...


I was probably exaggerating a wee bit when i said he would maul GSP, but i think he would win in decisively (assuming chael could cut down and not be drained, or lose his explosiveness). He would just bull rush gsp over and over again and really take gsp out of his element. 

Where did i say gsp only won his fights via greasing? I didnt say that at all. I said i think its hilarious how so many people actually deny he greased and still swing from his nuts. The proof of him greasing is out there on tape, on the internet, infact i made a thread about it. Video proof which cant be denied. Do you really believe all this stuff you are typing?!

I didnt any where say he only won because he greased, but i do believe it gave him an advantage in his fights, an advantage he doesnt really need because he could beat his opponents any way. gsp is mentally weak imo. Which is another reason why i think chael would beat him. IMO chael is the only guy out there who can really put pressure on GSP. He sets a relentless pace. I believe gsp isnt mentally strong and when a savage like chael really turns up the pace, takes him down and GNP's him, gsp could fold under pressure.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> I was probably exaggerating a wee bit when i said he would maul GSP, but i think he would win in decisively (assuming chael could cut down and not be drained, or lose his explosiveness). He would just bull rush gsp over and over again and really take gsp out of his element.
> 
> Where did i say gsp only won his fights via greasing? I didnt say that at all. I said i think its hilarious how so many people actually deny he greased and still swing from his nuts. The proof of him greasing is out there on tape, on the internet, infact i made a thread about it. Video proof which cant be denied. Do you really believe all this stuff you are typing?!
> 
> I didnt any where say he only won because he greased, but i do believe it gave him an advantage in his fights, an advantage he doesnt really need because he could beat his opponents any way. gsp is mentally weak imo. Which is another reason why i think chael would beat him. IMO chael is the only guy out there who can really put pressure on GSP. He sets a relentless pace. I believe gsp isnt mentally strong and when a savage like chael really turns up the pace, takes him down and GNP's him, gsp could fold under pressure.


i dont think so, i think chael has bigger mental issues than GSP....chael cant stick to a gameplan, cant stay focused in a fight, he loses himself in the rounds, in the fight and gets caught, GSP would catch him in something

hes even doing therapy:confused03:....i think chael has many mental flaws in his game and its one of the reasons he lost to AS...he was defending the subs well until the final minutes, why? because he lost himself in the fight...and 5 rounds is just too much for him to stick to a gameplan

GSP is like randy couture when it comes to gameplans, i think he would break chael down in a 5 round war...3 rounds chael would have a much better chance though

still it is a interesting fight...i actually dont think the weight cut would be THAT much...i think he can make it, but will lose some power

GSP needs to face some1 who can take him down like chael but pose a threat with subs....in other words...jake shields:thumb02:...the problem is hes not as explosive as chael and cant push the pace as much, some1 who pushes the pace, chael would do that well....any way we can combine shields and chael?:confused02:


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## Can.Opener (Apr 8, 2009)

Shields has the best chance at beating GSP in the immediate future. Kos has an outside chance Serra style.

The key? Amazing TDD, an offensive guard off your back and world class standup in a specific technique.. I'd lean towards boxing to remove takedowns from kicks.

If you don't have all three he's going to shut you down and keep the fight where he wants.


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## suffersystem (Feb 4, 2007)

I am def going to have to go and watch some of Sheild's fights, as the only one I actually saw of him was the hendo fight, and from that alone I cannot fathom him ever beating GSP. The Sheildsin that fight was slow, weak, and IMHO seemed only b level.

Of course however, from what I gather from everyone here, he is quite the phenom on the ground. What would be a good one to watch from him? 

I took everyone's word here about him, even though I only saw that one fight, but I am curious to get some background on the guy. Being busy with work, home, and band stuff, I usually only get the chance to watch my UFC fighters and such, so my knowledge of outside fighters and such are not quite up to par with the rest of yas.

So, some Sheilds fights I should go watch?


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

ACTAFOOL said:


> i dont think so, i think chael has bigger mental issues than GSP....chael cant stick to a gameplan, cant stay focused in a fight, he loses himself in the rounds, in the fight and gets caught, GSP would catch him in something
> 
> hes even doing therapy:confused03:....i think chael has many mental flaws in his game and its one of the reasons he lost to AS...he was defending the subs well until the final minutes, why? because he lost himself in the fight...and 5 rounds is just too much for him to stick to a gameplan
> 
> ...


Completely disagree. I think its chaels pure lack of BJJ training which gets him caught in fights.

Shields is definitely gsp's biggest threat at WW though, i agree there.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Shields vs. GSP is going to look a lot like the 1st round of Shields vs. Hendo. Unlike Hendo, GSP is not going to gas or slow down, he'll have the explosive speed and power to keep stuffing takedowns all night long while taking Shields apart on the feet.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

aerius said:


> Shields vs. GSP is going to look a lot like the 1st round of Shields vs. Hendo. Unlike Hendo, GSP is not going to gas or slow down, he'll have the explosive speed and power to keep stuffing takedowns all night long while taking Shields apart on the feet.


I kinda agree here...I also don't know too much about Shields outside his fight against Hendo.

However, judging by that fight, Hendo tagged him, and Shields survived (which is a big plus for him).
However, Hendo gassed quick, and was moving pretty slow to begin with (back problems?).

Once Shields got the mount, he was hardly doing any damage, and I'm pretty sure GSP would have been able to sweep him or somehow get up (Hendo had no explosiveness whatsoever from his back on that fight).

I think Shields is getting too much credit for his win against Hendo. I will say again that I don't know much about him outside of that fight tho (and what I saw on bully beatdown, which was really not that impressive).

I do agree Shields is a great wrestler with great BJJ, but his GnP is lackluster and he is pretty slow altogether...

IMHO and limited knowledge of course


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

deadmanshand said:


> Yes. Let us tarnish his legacy because one man believes he's cheating. There is only one know instance of this event happening and not even the NSAC believe it was intentional because of that and him easily beating Matt Serra from within his guard we should call him a liar and a cheat.


Yea right, you believe that sh1t, you think its just one man and it was a mistake, that action of rubbing grease into his back and shoulders done my his corner man can be seen in many GSP fights, even Dana White doe not deny that GSP has greased up between round, sure Dana protects his fighter and blames the corner but even he can't deny the greasing, its not even a debate its fact, the only question is "did GSP knwo his corner where greasing him up" and to believe he didn't is stupid, of coarse he knew.

Watch the action closely that his comer man does when he greases him, you see this action in loads of past GSP fights, you see it in the Serra fight, its obvious that every time his corner do that to him they are greasing him up.

Video of Dana White saying GSP was greasing




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHg1zmUleQ0

Video of GSP greasing




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97B6OOwJHPY&feature=related
Its clear as day at 3.20 in this video

Video of GSP lying




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97B6OOwJHPY&feature=related

So if you want to deny GSP is a lier and a cheat then you are the idiot, and even tho that is the Penn fights because Penn was the only fighter to stand up and try to fight his case, that exact same form of massage is used on GSP in many of his fights, you have to be an idiot to believe this was a one off, that is no type of ordinary massage its his corner rubbing grease into his skin every single time in every single fight.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> Completely disagree. I think its chaels pure lack of BJJ training which gets him caught in fights.
> 
> Shields is definitely gsp's biggest threat at WW though, i agree there.


chael defended many sub attempts in that fight and even the last triangle he defended well, the only reason he couldnt really escape is because anderson just has very long legs..thats it really, he defened other triangle attempts, and the way he tried to get out of the last triangle, if it was some1 with shorter legs he would have escaped.

ppl think just because chael bull rushes fighters and isnt afraid of any1 then he doesnt have mental issues...there are many aspects to being mentally weak, he lost that fight because hes stupid, he could have stalled and taken the belt from AS...so why didnt he? because he said so himself ''at the end of the day its a fight, and to be honest i was just lost, i didnt even know what rounds we were in, i didnt know how much time was left, you forget your gameplan and just end up in a fight''

yeah...sure that happens....to mentally weak fighters, ask AS, randy, GSP, machida many other elite fighters if they cant stick to their gameplan because they are in a fight:confused02:...hes has his own sport therapist for a reason


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## RudeBoySes (Aug 9, 2010)

i think the key to beating GSP is cardio, stamina, and strength. Overall MMA skill is without question. 

But what separates GSP from the competiton is his amazing shape. He is able to go full steam in the 3rd/5th round, and not break a sweat.

As for Maia, i don't see it. He is a 1 dimensional fighter, who does not care for physical condition.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Yea right, you believe that sh1t, you think its just one man and it was a mistake, that action of rubbing grease into his back and shoulders done my his corner man can be seen in many GSP fights, even Dana White doe not deny that GSP has greased up between round, sure Dana protects his fighter and blames the corner but even he can't deny the greasing, its not even a debate its fact, the only question is "did GSP knwo his corner where greasing him up" and to believe he didn't is stupid, of coarse he knew.
> 
> Watch the action closely that his comer man does when he greases him, you see this action in loads of past GSP fights, you see it in the Serra fight, its obvious that every time his corner do that to him they are greasing him up.
> 
> ...


So.
Another 9 times you've used "grease" on this thread.
Your total so far: 21 times! Keep it up! You're getting there!
I love your posts more and more. The anger, combined with envy towards GSP, not even BJ was this fired up against GSP, after GSP made him look like an amateur. 
I think the stuff the cornerman rubbed GSP with in that fight was honey, so that BJ would have better chances of sticking close to GSP. You see: GSP actually didn't cheat. He wanted to give BJ an advantage, just to prove he is the best.
And please stop calling other members "idiots". 
You're not doing yourself any favours.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> I was probably exaggerating a wee bit when i said he would maul GSP, but i think he would win in decisively (assuming chael could cut down and not be drained, or lose his explosiveness). He would just bull rush gsp over and over again and really take gsp out of his element.
> 
> Where did i say gsp only won his fights via greasing? I didnt say that at all. I said i think its hilarious how so many people actually deny he greased and still swing from his nuts. The proof of him greasing is out there on tape, on the internet, infact i made a thread about it. Video proof which cant be denied. Do you really believe all this stuff you are typing?!
> 
> I didnt any where say he only won because he greased, but i do believe it gave him an advantage in his fights, an advantage he doesnt really need because he could beat his opponents any way. gsp is mentally weak imo. Which is another reason why i think chael would beat him. IMO chael is the only guy out there who can really put pressure on GSP. He sets a relentless pace. I believe gsp isnt mentally strong and when a savage like chael really turns up the pace, takes him down and GNP's him, gsp could fold under pressure.


I know you thread, (GSP greasegate?!)
1. GSP's cornerman rubbed him with a substance (grease, whatever). I don't think it was something intended, and i also think it made zero difference in that fight. GSP was the better striker in that fight. Took Penn down whenever he wanted to, passed BJ's guard at will, plus he tooled BJ like never before.
He was bigger, stronger, faster, more technical, had the better gameplan, the desire to win. It was shown in the Primetime, before the fight: while GSP was training his ass off, BJ was lying to Dana about his training, he was taking time off from training, hanging with his friends, chilling.
So, if someone needs to look for the causes of BJ's performance that night, they should analyse BJ's preparation for that fight and they should stop looking for grease on GSP's body.
And enough about grease. It's just silly.

2. You are right. Chael has the wrestling that can cause GSP all sort of problems. 
At 185 i would give Chael the advantage, no doubt. This guy is strong as a bull and his cardio, energy tank feels like is full all the time. 
But i don't think he could cut to 170, without damaging his body, without being drained. He would need to make a big cut, and i don't think he would fade against GSP, who is just perfect suited for WW atm. 
At a catch-weight, 178-180 maybe, it's a tough one for me.
I think the fighter that would get the first TD would most likely win that round. I don't see any of them losing top position, if they were to obtain it.
One thing for sure. It would be one of the most interesting fight for me to watch.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

limba said:


> I know you thread, (GSP greasegate?!)
> 1. GSP's cornerman rubbed him with a substance (grease, whatever). I don't think it was something intended, and i also think it made zero difference in that fight. GSP was the better striker in that fight. Took Penn down whenever he wanted to, passed BJ's guard at will, plus he tooled BJ like never before.
> He was bigger, stronger, faster, more technical, had the better gameplan, the desire to win. *It was shown in the Primetime, before the fight: while GSP was training his ass off, BJ was lying to Dana about his training, he was taking time off from training, hanging with his friends, chilling.
> So, if someone needs to look for the causes of BJ's performance that night, they should analyse BJ's preparation for that fight* and they should stop looking for grease on GSP's body.
> ...


Editing has a lot to do with it.
I wouldn't trust everything shown on those primetime shows.
All they were doing was building hype, and I wouldn't be surprised if they made BJ look worse than what actually happened...
I actually have a hard time believing that BJ wasn't taking the fight or GSP seriously, and that he was having fun with friends instead of training...


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

suniis said:


> Editing has a lot to do with it.
> I wouldn't trust everything shown on those primetime shows.
> All they were doing was building hype, and I wouldn't be surprised if they made BJ look worse than what actually happened...
> I actually have a hard time believing that BJ wasn't taking the fight or GSP seriously, and that he was having fun with friends instead of training...


Maybe. Editing is evil 
But i can only comment on things i've seen so far.
But i also remember the countdown to BJ vs Florian, BJ's first fight after losing to GSP, and in that one BJ was a completely different fighter, with a different work ethic and menthality, plus a different camp. And if i'm not mistaking he kinda admitted he got his ass kicked.
Also Primetime2: GSP-Hardy. 
In that one, edited or not, they've showed GSP training his ass off, again, and Hardy doing pretty much the same thing. The one thing, they didn't show Hardy training too much wrestling. And we all know how that fight went.
All i was trying to point out was the fact that GSP work very hard before his fights. His camps are as tough as they come, trains his ass off, doesn't have a problem with staying those extra 5 minutes in the gym in order to try and refine the details. And so far, it's paying off for him.
To take this away from him, and say greasing was one off the key factors for him winning, is just a non-sense imo.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

limba said:


> Maybe. Editing is evil
> But i can only comment on things i've seen so far.
> But i also remember the countdown to BJ vs Florian, BJ's first fight after losing to GSP, and in that one BJ was a completely different fighter, with a different work ethic and menthality, plus a different camp. And if i'm not mistaking he kinda admitted he got his ass kicked.
> Also Primetime2: GSP-Hardy.
> ...


I agree with that...


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

_RIVAL_ said:


> Superior wrestling and BJJ.
> 
> I think Jake Shields is GSPs biggest threat.... GSP has great TDD.
> 
> ...


I don't even think Shields is good enough to beat GSP, I know that there's always the chance but Shielsd couldn't put away Hendo or Mayhem. Mayhem is good off his back and nearly punished Sheilds for overcomiting. Just imagine what GSP could do to him. Not taking anything away from Mayhem or Shields here but Shields should ahve lost that fight. Mayhem had a RNC locked in



KillerShark1985 said:


> Yea right, you believe that sh1t, you think its just one man and it was a mistake, that action of rubbing grease into his back and shoulders done my his corner man can be seen in many GSP fights, even Dana White doe not deny that GSP has greased up between round, sure Dana protects his fighter and blames the corner but even he can't deny the greasing, its not even a debate its fact, the only question is "did GSP knwo his corner where greasing him up" and to believe he didn't is stupid, of coarse he knew.
> 
> Watch the action closely that his comer man does when he greases him, you see this action in loads of past GSP fights, you see it in the Serra fight, its obvious that every time his corner do that to him they are greasing him up.
> 
> ...


Dude grow up and get over it...everyone else has why can't you? Besides the rules are if the REF determines that the fighter is ok with his body then its LEGAL. The ref did not at any time stop because GSP was FINE.Now they take even more precautions on greasing but even then if the ref and the athletic commisions say its ok , ITS OK. Also ever realise that these acusations come AFTER the fights and not during them? pretty convinient. Also GSP didn't know he was greasing, neither did his corner. The whole tapping on his back wasn't intentional. You can tell, he tapped him on his back and pulled away. he didn't notice he had grease still on his hand and even THEN it was RUBBED OFF.

Get a life dude, go outside enjoy the time before winter


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Sousa said:


> Dude grow up and get over it...everyone else has why can't you? Besides the rules are if the REF determines that the fighter is ok with his body then its LEGAL. The ref did not at any time stop because GSP was FINE.Now they take even more precautions on greasing but even then if the ref and the athletic commisions say its ok , ITS OK. Also ever realise that these acusations come AFTER the fights and not during them? pretty convinient. Also GSP didn't know he was greasing, neither did his corner. The whole tapping on his back wasn't intentional. You can tell, he tapped him on his back and pulled away. he didn't notice he had grease still on his hand and even THEN it was RUBBED OFF.
> 
> Get a life dude, go outside enjoy the time before winter


Winner!
But i think i've got the answer.
You know, when a fighter is in action he tends to sweat, and therefore his body becomes more slippery.
In GSP's case, scientists have come to the conclusion that GSP's sweat is actually............GREASE!!! YUP!
That's why BJ and Serra had trouble in GSP's guard.
GSP's superior size, strength and incredible wrestling/ground control had nothing to do with it.
It was the grease he was sweating thru his skin.

In the future GSP could be forced to fight with a kimono, so that his opponents won't feel the grease eliminated thru his sweat. :sarcastic12:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Sousa said:


> I don't even think Shields is good enough to beat GSP, I know that there's always the chance but *Shielsd couldn't put away Hendo or Mayhem*. Mayhem is good off his back and nearly punished Sheilds for overcomiting. Just imagine what GSP could do to him. Not taking anything away from Mayhem or Shields here but Shields should ahve lost that fight. Mayhem had a RNC locked in


GSP didnt come close to finishing Mayhem and he wouldnt finish Hendo either.

And lol @ deluded people who still deny GSP greased.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

To those accusing him of greasing... i ask you this one question:

Had GSP been rubbed down with a towel by the head of the NSAC himself before every fight and between every round...which fight exactly would he not have won?


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> GSP didnt come close to finishing Mayhem and he wouldnt finish Hendo either.
> 
> And lol @ deluded people who still deny GSP greased.


Ya but that was also 5 years ago...


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## astrallite (Mar 14, 2010)

The key to defeating GSP it to have a tag-team partner.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

astrallite said:


> The key to defeating GSP it to have a tag-team partner.


You might be right.

As for GSP greasing against BJ Penn, he was still whooping that ass all night, wasn't he?


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

rygu said:


> To those accusing him of greasing... i ask you this one question:
> 
> Had GSP been rubbed down with a towel by the head of the NSAC himself before every fight and between every round...which fight exactly would he not have won?


That doesn't even matter. Cheating is cheating whether you're the best or not.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

rygu said:


> To those accusing him of greasing... i ask you this one question:
> 
> Had GSP been rubbed down with a towel by the head of the NSAC himself before every fight and between every round...which fight exactly would he not have won?


Irrelevant, you along with many others are missing the point. A cheat is a cheat. There is 100 percent proof out there as to what he did, he greased. Hes a fake and a cheater.



Sousa said:


> Ya but that was also 5 years ago...


Ya but he wouldnt finish mayhem now either, he couldn't even finish dan hardy.....


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## putmeonhold (Jul 10, 2006)

I think the only chance any fighter has of beating GSP is to incorporate getting bitten by a radio active spider into their training camp


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Irrelevant, you along with many others are missing the point. A cheat is a cheat. There is 100 percent proof out there as to what he did, he greased. Hes a fake and a cheater.
> 
> 
> 
> Ya but he wouldnt finish mayhem now either, he couldn't even finish dan hardy.....


So what does that haev to do with anything? Yah he didn't finish him 5 years ago big deal. Look at the guys who couldn't finish Mayhem...Jacare,Shields and Chael Sonnen.

Who cares if he couldn't finish Dan hardy, he still beat him down and nearly had what? 5 different submissions that Hardy's arm should have broken and would have had GSP not let go? SOmetimes there are standards that fighters don't take, GSP could have finished Hardy but that would have required broken bones. It happens, but GSP was in position for many submissions he just couldn't pull one off big deal.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well you still have to give GSP credit for trying to stop Hardy. The last few fights he's been doing mostly lay and pray which hasn't been the best strategy!


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Sousa said:


> So what does that haev to do with anything? Yah he didn't finish him 5 years ago big deal. Look at the guys who couldn't finish Mayhem...Jacare,Shields and Chael Sonnen.
> 
> Who cares if he couldn't finish Dan hardy, he still beat him down and nearly had what? 5 different submissions that Hardy's arm should have broken and would have had GSP not let go? SOmetimes there are standards that fighters don't take, GSP could have finished Hardy but that would have required broken bones. It happens, but GSP was in position for many submissions he just couldn't pull one off big deal.


Im using your own logic and using it against you.

You try to criticise Shields by saying he couldnt finish Miller or Hendo. Im using the same retarded argument to say GSP couldn't finish hardy or Miller (or alves or hardy or fitch....) Its just a stupid argument, i hope you can see this now.


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Im using your own logic and using it against you.
> 
> You try to criticise Shields by saying he couldnt finish Miller or Hendo. Im using the same retarded argument to say GSP couldn't finish hardy or Miller (or alves or hardy or fitch....) Its just a stupid argument, i hope you can see this now.


Um no, obviously you didn't read what I said clearly. I also mentioned that Mayhem had him in a RNC because he over comitted. I also mentioned that yes anything can happen but GSP has beaten better wrestlers and out grappled them.So my logic is anything can happen but GSP is better than Shields so he should win.I also said if GSP happens to be on his back, he CAN put Shields away

But no you're just a hater and will do anything you can to put GSP down but hey why should I care? "haters gonna hate" and obviously you're going to cry about GSP until he loses

Oh just one last thing, GSP has beaten 6 am wrestlers while Shields has beaten 2

Its just funny because it stems from teh same logic that Anderson will always"lose" to wrestlers when he hasn't pft go hate some where else


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> A cheat is a cheat. There is 100 percent proof out there as to what he did, he greased. Hes a fake and a cheater.


:laugh:

Have any athletic commissions confirmed this? Is it just Crybaby-J Penn and a few other fighters that GSP destroyed that say he cheated? 

Yes... a man who has beaten every top WW over the past 3 years is a complete fake. He possesses no skill, doesn't work hard, and definitely isn't very dedicated to MMA. You're so right.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, BJ needs to get over that seriously. Going wah wah wah all the time just doesn't cut it!:thumbsdown:


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

rygu said:


> :laugh:
> 
> Have any athletic commissions confirmed this? Is it just Crybaby-J Penn and a few other fighters that GSP destroyed that say he cheated?
> 
> Yes... a man who has beaten every top WW over the past 3 years is a complete fake. No possess no skill, doesn't work hard, and definitely isn't very dedicated to MMA. You're so right.


well im sorry but GSP did GREASE...he didnt cheat because it wasnt in the rules at that time that he couldnt do that, and im not saying that he did it every fight

BUT dana himself said GSP greased and they did have to rub him off with a towel so it obvious gsp greased at least in ONE fight

does that make him a crappy fighter? no, i still think he would beat bj, and any other WW, hes freaking amazing and i dont discredit any of his wins because of that, and i am a fan of his.

but gsp nuthuggers do have to admit that he did use grease, he was aware of it, hes not a retard, he saw the guy hiding the grease, and it was because of him using it that the rules changed to how they are today.

though this was a long time ago and its obvious he would have won either way, GSP can beat any WW in the world because hes just that good, but you cant deny he greased at least once in his career. doesnt mean hes still doing it now and hes still the most amazing WW ever


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, but GSP greasing didn't effect the fight at all. Sure he was greased but they wiped in down and as a result teh grease didn't effect the outcome of the fight!:confused02:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Sousa said:


> Um no, obviously you didn't read what I said clearly. I also mentioned that Mayhem had him in a RNC because he over comitted. I also mentioned that yes anything can happen but GSP has beaten better wrestlers and out grappled them.So my logic is anything can happen but GSP is better than Shields so he should win.I also said if GSP happens to be on his back, he CAN put Shields away
> 
> But no you're just a hater and will do anything you can to put GSP down but hey why should I care? "haters gonna hate" and obviously you're going to cry about GSP until he loses
> 
> ...


Umm? Where did i say Shields would beat GSP? Why are you turning this into a completley different argument.

You said; Shields couldnt even finish Hendo or Miller (implying that GSP would finish both of these guys). I used this same dumb logic and applied it to GSP not finishing Miller or Hardy, thats all.

I didnt say thing about Shields being better than GSP or started crying about GSP.

For the record I think GSP is probably p4p number 1 atm. His skillset is so well rounded, he has such little holes in his game and hes an incredible athlete. Hes an excellent fighter. 

Just because he greased doesnt bias my opinion on his actual skillset, hes an extremely talented fighter. I think he would beat shields, but it would be his most competitive fight at WW.

Personality wise, i think hes fake, a cheater and a slime ball, but i cant deny his skills. Do you understand now rygu? I appreciate gsps's great skillset but i think hes a fake and a cheat. (Fake meaning he acts up to the cameras and acts as the good guy, the humble guy, when in reality, hes just a slimy, sly, cheating ******).

Im the same when it comes to Floyd Mayweather. I can not stand that arrogant prick, but i cant deny his skillset and dont let it cloud my judgement on him as a boxer.


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Umm? Where did i say Shields would beat GSP? Why are you turning this into a completley different argument.
> 
> You said; Shields couldnt even finish Hendo or Miller (implying that GSP would finish both of these guys). I used this same dumb logic and applied it to GSP not finishing Miller or Hardy, thats all.
> 
> ...


To make up for any credibility you have...where did I claim that you said"shields will beat GSP" i'd really liek to see where I said that.Because I see no point in responding back to anything else you wrote


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Otherworldly BJJ; iron hands; genius head movement.

Everybody dial their snark level down a little. You're at about 7; I need you at about 2. Thanks.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

What the heck is a snark level?


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Sousa said:


> To make up for any credibility you have...where did I claim that you said"shields will beat GSP" i'd really liek to see where I said that.Because I see no point in responding back to anything else you wrote


You're the one that needs to redeem your self, not me. Your whole post turned the argument into; "Is Shields better than GSP". Which wasnt at all what i was arguing in the first place.

Your entire post implies that i think Shields would beat GSP, hence you defending GSP's skills and going on about how GSP would beat Shields.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I think if GSP ends up facing Shields and wants to beat him he needs to keep the fight standing cause that is Shields week spot. Going to the ground with Shields would be suicide for GSP!:thumbsdown:


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