# Is Paul Heyman starting early negotiations to bring Brock Lesnar back to the UFC?



## Alibaster (Sep 7, 2012)

Source: http://fiveknuckles.com/mma-news/Pa...-White-want-Brock-Lesnar-back-in-the-UFC.html 

Let me start this off by saying that this is educated speculation, but it sure seems like it. Lesnar has been saying for a bit now that he has thought about coming back to MMA and Dana White said he'd love to have him back, now Heyman starts pumping up Lesnars ability to drive PPV's and sell fights. 

Sounds like a negotiation to me. Thoughts?

And how would Lesnar do coming back. Maybe the time off was good for his stomach issues and he'll be back stronger?


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## Toroian (Jan 3, 2009)

Alibaster said:


> Source: http://fiveknuckles.com/mma-news/Pa...-White-want-Brock-Lesnar-back-in-the-UFC.html
> 
> Let me start this off by saying that this is educated speculation, but it sure seems like it. Lesnar has been saying for a bit now that he has thought about coming back to MMA and Dana White said he'd love to have him back, now Heyman starts pumping up Lesnars ability to drive PPV's and sell fights.
> 
> ...


who would he fight ? every one at the top of the HW division has kicked his ass already. I guess Cormier could give him a scar on his other cheek and a welcoming gift ?


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

We will never see the Lesner of 08-09, im sure of it.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

If he has continued to work on his striking - including hard sparring - then yes. The time off would have done him a world of good. If not I hope he stays retired.



Toroian said:


> who would he fight ? every one at the top of the HW division has kicked his ass already.


Umm... no. The only two unavenged losses are to Cain and Overroid. So how has every one of the top heavyweights kicked his ass already? He beat Carwin and Mir.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> If he has continued to work on his striking - including hard sparring - then yes. The time off would have done him a world of good. If not I hope he stays retired.



It takes a long time to be calm under fire, i dont think its even something you can teach - i got it because im a badass. Even hard sparring might not help, i can see him just being beat up and demoralized against real strikers.


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## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

To the OP. In the future if you post an article, please put the text of the article in quotes, and simply list the source, so members on here don't have to go to another site to read the article. Makes it easier for us and mods alike. Anyways, welcome to the board. 








​


> "I make of it that Dana White is a businessman and he understands that the pay-per-view numbers that Brock Lesnar can pull in, and he is sitting there saying, 'I want a piece of that action,' and I don't blame Dana White. Hey listen, do you think if Brock Lesnar went to the NBA right now and said I can dunk a basketball want to put me on a team? What team is gonna say no? No, we don't want the ratings you could bring in Brock, we don't want the numbers you could draw. You think if Brock Lesnar could hit a baseball out of a park, the New York Yankees or the Boston Red Sox, or the Minnesota Twins wouldn't put him on the roster to hit that ball out the ballpark? Of course they would. Dana White knows Brock Lesnar can turn the Octagon into the Brocktagon any time that he wants, and his pay-per-view numbers are gonna go up, up, and up with Brock Lesnar. Why wouldn't Dana White want Brock Lesnar back." -Paul Heyman via The Score
> 
> At the UFC on Fuel TV 5 open media workouts UFC president Dana White announced that if former UFC heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar was interested in coming back to the UFC he would gladly welcome him back with open arms.
> 
> ...


Source


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## evilappendix (Jan 4, 2007)

People still want to see this guy fight? He had an insane amount of potential ten years ago, but its long over now. The dude is afraid of getting hit. Not much good in a contact sport if you shut down mentally as soon as you taste leather. He should stick to wrastlin, it pays way better anyway doesn't it? Or just open his own gym if he hasn't already. Would need to hire a full time striking coach though..


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

They just announced last night Deathclutch closed.

Huge Brock fan but I think it's over sadly, I do think he could be top ten though, Junior, Cain, Overeem, Cormier, and Werdum could all beat him but everyone else? I think Lesnar handles them.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

You could add Carwin and Struve to that list too.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Joabbuac said:


> It takes a long time to be calm under fire, *i dont think its even something you can teach* - i got it because im a badass. Even hard sparring might not help, i can see him just being beat up and demoralized against real strikers.


Absolute crap. Of course it can be taught. That's what a multitude of training drills and hard sparring are made to do. He would get beat up against real strikers who could stop the takedown. 

And I'm just going to do my best to ignore the badass comment. It makes fun of itself.



Joabbuac said:


> You could add Carwin and Struve to that list too.


Except he's already beat Carwin. Struve would actually be an interesting fight. Probably ends with Struve GnPed to oblivion ala Mir/Lesnar 2.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> Absolute crap. Of course it can be taught. That's what a multitude of training drills and hard sparring are made to do. He would get beat up against real strikers who could stop the takedown.
> 
> And I'm just going to do my best to ignore the badass comment. It makes fun of itself.
> 
> ...


You cannot teach hardness through training drills and getting beat down, its takes a different type of person. If you had been in a ring you would know this. 

You didnt ignore the badass comment :laugh: 

As for Lesner-Carwin, LyotoLegion said he handles the rest - i disagreed and brought up Lesners toughest win - cant see it being any easier in a second fight.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Joabbuac said:


> You cannot teach hardness through training drills and getting beat down, its takes a different type of person. If you had been in a ring you would know this.
> 
> You didnt ignore the badass comment :laugh:


I have 24 amateur boxing matches and 13 kickboxing to my name. I know exactly what it takes to fight and I know how to train it. Are there people who can't learn it? Yes. Are they the majority? Not at all.

So please step off of your imaginary badass pedestal and try not to make yourself look any worse.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> I have 24 amateur boxing matches and 13 kickboxing to my name. I know exactly what it takes to fight and I know how to train it. Are there people who can't learn it? Yes. Are they the majority? Not at all.
> 
> So please step off of your imaginary badass pedestal and try not to make yourself look any worse.



Read what i wrote, i said "It takes a long time" and "You cant teach it" It comes with experience, toughness and drive. Some dont have it in them some do....The people who come good at striking just keep on coming back no matter how much you beat them down - over a long period of time. 

Ive had 10 boxing matches (8-2) and 3 kickboxing matches (2-1) 

I get robbed and dq'd now and then, i dont even count any of my losses, but im bias. I also dont think i have looked as good as i can lately...very sloppy fights.

Oh, and I dont believe a word you say.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Joabbuac said:


> Read what i wrote, i said "It takes a long time" and "You cant teach it" It comes with experience, toughness and drive. Some dont have it in them some do....The people who come good at striking just keep on coming back no matter how much you beat them down - over a long period of time.
> 
> Ive had 10 boxing matches (8-2) and 3 kickboxing matches (2-1)
> 
> ...


Ah. So you're a ****tard trying to make himself look tough of the internet. Gotcha. On to the ignore list.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> Ah. So you're a ****tard trying to make himself look tough of the internet. Gotcha. On to the ignore list.


:laugh: knew you wouldnt provide proof. You clearly dont get the fight game enough to have fought so much, pretty clear to me. Plus...fighters dont put people on ignore...


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Joabbuac said:


> :laugh: knew you wouldnt provide proof. You clearly dont get the fight game enough to have fought so much, pretty clear to me. Plus...fighters dont put people on ignore...


I am tired of pieces of shit like you calling me a liar. My last fight was 11 years ago and I don't have any footage left. It was all on vhs. It was a ******* lifetime of pain ago and listening to trash like you call me a ******* liar about something that I think about every god damned day is senseless. 

Did you cripple yourself and have fighting taken away from you? I did. Do you have any ******* idea what that feels like? Or how much it pisses me off when people like you just decide to start shit with me to feel better about themselves? 

I might get infracted by mods for this but I don't give a shit. If you can call me a liar I can call you a ******* piece of shit.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> I am tired of pieces of shit like you calling me a liar. My last fight was 11 years ago and I don't have any footage left. It was all on vhs. It was a ******* lifetime of pain ago and listening to trash like you call me a ******* liar about something that I think about every god damned day is senseless.
> 
> Did you cripple yourself and have fighting taken away from you? I did. Do you have any ******* idea what that feels like? Or how much it pisses me off when people like you just decide to start shit with me to feel better about themselves?
> 
> I might get infracted by mods for this but I don't give a shit. If you can call me a liar I can call you a ******* piece of shit.


Calm down dude - i didnt have fighting taken away from me, but i am going from a bout of "Is this fighting shit for me" I get down on myself at times and dont train for a week, that always sucks. 

I didnt start on you, you started on me :laugh: and i never fully believe anything told to me on the Internets, it would be naive to do so.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Who would they give him I wonder?

I say have to give him someone coming off a loss. Loser of Roy and Carwin maybe? Big Nog?


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Joabbuac said:


> Calm down dude - i didnt have fighting taken away from me, but i am going from a bout of "Is this fighting shit for me" I get down on myself at times and dont train for a week, that always sucks.
> 
> I didnt start on you, you started on me :laugh: and i never fully believe anything told to me on the Internets, it would be naive to do so.


No you started by making ridiculous claims and talking about how badass you were. Then you made assumptions about me that you had no reason to and then decided to call me a liar.

There is a difference between not fully believing something somebody says and calling them a ******* liar. Calling me a liar is one of the worst things anyone can call me.

I. Don't. Lie.

Ever. Even would it keep me from getting in trouble or help me get a better job. I don't do it. And you don't have to fully ******* believe me but you also don't get to call me a liar and then tell me to calm the **** down.

Fighting was my ******* life before most of mma fans had even seen a ******* fight and it got taken away from me in a stupid, freak ******* accident. So no. I don't have any footage or pictures. I couldn't ******* stand to look at them. SO is that good enough for you? Does that satisfy why I don't have any ******* footage laying around, Mr. Badass?


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> No you started by making ridiculous claims and talking about how badass you were. Then you made assumptions about me that you had no reason to and then decided to call me a liar.
> 
> There is a difference between not fully believing something somebody says and calling them a ******* liar. Calling me a liar is one of the worst things anyone can call me.
> 
> ...


I cant take anyone at there word on the internet, anyone can type shit - I normally do at least act like i am accepting what people are saying to me is true but you used it to counter my assumption so i had to question it. 

You calling my comments on being a badass "ridiculous" Is another assumption...


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Joabbuac said:


> I cant take anyone at there word on the internet, anyone can type shit - I normally do at least act like i am accepting what people are saying to me is true but you used it to counter my assumption so i had to question it.
> 
> You calling my comments on being a badass "ridiculous" Is another assumption...


What reason did you have for making the assumption in the first place? Nothing? You pulled it straight out of your ass? Shit that almost makes it sound like you were trying to make yourself sound like a hardass.

And I never said the badass comment was ridiculous. I said it made you look bad. Which it does. Because no one takes a man who calls himself a badass seriously. Could you imagine actually saying that to someone face to face without them laughing at you?


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> What reason did you have for making the assumption in the first place? Nothing? You pulled it straight out of your ass? Shit that almost makes it sound like you were trying to make yourself sound like a hardass.
> 
> And I never said the badass comment was ridiculous. I said it made you look bad. Which it does. Because no one takes a man who calls himself a badass seriously. Could you imagine actually saying that to someone face to face without them laughing at you?


OK, sorry - you said it was "imaginary"

I call myself a badass because i enjoy people laughing and scoffing at it :laugh: Even people who want to seem like a badass dont come out and openly state it


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Joabbuac said:


> OK, sorry - you said it was "imaginary"
> 
> I call myself a badass because i enjoy people laughing and scoffing at it :laugh: Even people who want to seem like a badass dont come out and openly state it


Your point being? 

All the emoticons in the world won't make anything you've said to me less irritating. Nor will it somehow make them funny.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> Your point being?
> 
> All the emoticons in the world won't make anything you've said to me less irritating. Nor will it somehow make them funny.


My point is we both made assumptions here.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Joabbuac said:


> My point is we both made assumptions here.


No. I made no assumptions. Everything I said was derived from your words and actions here.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> No. I made no assumptions. Everything I said was derived from your words and actions here.


Calling my badassness imaginary is an assumption...:confused05:


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I've killed a man. My level of badassery > yours

Brock Lesnar aside, how cool a guy is Paul Heyman? Highly intelligent man with a silver tongue. I nominate him for President of the UFC.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Joabbuac said:


> Calling my badassness imaginary is an assumption...:confused05:


No. That's a fact, son. The moment someone calls themselves a badass it's a good sign the closest they've ever come to badassery is playing Street Fighter.

No real fighter would ever call themselves that. Keyboard warriors? Oh yeah. All ******* day long! AT least till their older brother kicks their ass for jerking it to pics of their mom. Again.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> I have 24 amateur boxing matches and 13 kickboxing to my name. I know exactly what it takes to fight and I know how to train it. Are there people who can't learn it? Yes. Are they the majority? Not at all.
> 
> So please step off of your imaginary badass pedestal and try not to make yourself look any worse.


You said in another thread that you have been boxing for 10 years but don't take it seriously and just do it for fun.

Now you've had 24 amateur matches......

Some thing doesn't add up here.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> No. That's a fact, son. The moment someone calls themselves a badass it's a good sign the closest they've ever come to badassery is playing Street Fighter.
> 
> No real fighter would ever call themselves that. Keyboard warriors? Oh yeah. All ******* day long! AT least till their older brother kicks their ass for jerking it to pics of their mom. Again.


:laugh: Projecting much? 

Im not a good fighter....but i am a fighter.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> You said in another thread that you have been boxing for 10 years but don't take it seriously and just do it for fun.
> 
> Now you've had 24 amateur matches......
> 
> Some thing doesn't add up here.


That's not what I said. Don't try and lie. I train when I can now for fun and I said 14 years not 10. But I said I had amateur fights in that thread too because you also called me a liar for not having an entire media library of my training and matches on hand to satisfy your curiosity.

So, grapple, please shut the **** up and stay out of this unless you actually have something to ******* contribute besides lies.



Joabbuac said:


> :laugh: Projecting much?
> 
> Im not a good fighter....but i am a fighter.


So? What does that have to do with talking about how badass you are? Nothing? That's right nothing.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> So? What does that have to do with talking about how badass you are? Nothing? That's right nothing.



You dont even know what you write, i was responding to...

"No real fighter would ever call themselves that. Keyboard warriors? Oh yeah."


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Joabbuac said:


> You dont even know what you write, i was responding to...
> 
> "No real fighter would ever call themselves that. Keyboard warriors? Oh yeah."


You can have fights without being a real fighter.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> That's not what I said. Don't try and lie. I train when I can now for fun and I said 14 years not 10. But I said I had amateur fights in that thread too because you also called me a liar for not having an entire media library of my training and matches on hand to satisfy your curiosity.
> 
> So, grapple, please shut the **** up and stay out of this unless you actually have something to ******* contribute besides lies.
> 
> ...


You've been boxing for 14 years, had a wealth of fights in combat sports, know every thing there is to know about every thing apparently, and any one that calls you out for evidence is a troll and should shut the **** up.

You've had all of these amateur fights and yet you haven't got a single shred of evidence to prove it, because they were so many years ago and were all captured on VHS, lol.

Stop compulsively lying. Just stop.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> You can have fights without being a real fighter.



:laugh: What is a real fighter by your definition?


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> You've been boxing for 14 years, had a wealth of fights in combat sports, know every thing there is to know about every thing apparently, and any one that calls you out for evidence is a troll and should shut the **** up.
> 
> You've had all of these amateur fights and yet you haven't got a single shred of evidence to prove it, because they were so many years ago and were all captured on VHS, lol.
> 
> Stop compulsively lying. Just stop.


Why don't you go **** yourself? I'm not lying. I fought for several years. Then I was crippled. All true. The pain I am in every god damn day reminds me of it.

I've never said I know everything about fighting. I don't call people trolls unless they are being one. I don't have the footage and I even said why. Is my reason so unbelievable? My story so incredible that you feel the need to bring me down so you can feel better about yourself?

You are a ******* asshole. The retarded part of your name is not just a clever pseudonym. You don't have a single shred of proof that I am lying. None. I let my knowledge of fighting speak for itself. 



Joabbuac said:


> :laugh: What is a real fighter by your definition?


Someone who doesn't spend his time telling people he's a badass and then defending the statement when they call him an idiot. Clear enough?


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Talk about taking a thread taking a left turn....


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> Someone who doesn't spend his time telling people he's a badass and then defending the statement when they call him an idiot. Clear enough?


Are you a badass?


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## Rastaman (Feb 25, 2010)

This thread:


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Joabbuac said:


> Are you a badass?


I'd never call myself that.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

rubberneckers...



deadmanshand said:


> I'd never call myself that.


Yet...with your statement 

"Someone who doesn't spend his time telling people he's a badass and then defending the statement when they call him an idiot. Clear enough?"

So that implies you are a badass?


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> Why don't you go **** yourself? I'm not lying. I fought for several years. Then I was crippled. All true. The pain I am in every god damn day reminds me of it.
> 
> I've never said I know everything about fighting. I don't call people trolls unless they are being one. I don't have the footage and I even said why. Is my reason so unbelievable? My story so incredible that you feel the need to bring me down so you can feel better about yourself?
> 
> ...


Quotes from you in another thread about your boxing experience when I called you out on it:



> How many people do you know - who train boxing for fun - keep video records of themselves training? Because none of the ones I know do it. Besides I relied on the rationale and knowledge of my comments on boxing to speak for themselves


You also claim in the other thread that you boxed for 15 years:



> I've boxed for 15 years.


Thread link:

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/103863-nick-diaz-announcement-14.html

You keep changing your mind when it comes to what you have and haven't done. You had been boxing for 15 years for fun and did it as a hobby, therefore you had no recordings or pictures of yourself boxing.

Then you had been boxing for 14 years and had numerous amateur fights in boxing and kickboxing.

Now you're claiming to be crippled from all of the boxing.

So you're obviously supposed to be at least in your thirties. A 30 odd year old man who comes on this forum and seems to rage and insult members after every other post.

The reality is, you've probably never stepped into a boxing ring in your entire life, you're most likely in your late teens or early twenties and fit the bill as a narcissistic compulsive liar.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

:laugh: you got him...


Knew it....


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Joabbuac said:


> Yet...with your statement
> 
> "Someone who doesn't spend his time telling people he's a badass and then defending the statement when they call him an idiot. Clear enough?"
> 
> So that implies you are a badass?


No. Not at all. I don't know how you even took from that comment.

No. I'm just a guy who knows how to fight with a body too busted up to make much of it.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> No. Not at all. I don't know how you even took from that comment.
> 
> No. I'm just a guy who knows how to fight with a body too busted up to make much of it.


I just think your answer to "What is a badass" was pathetically lame.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Joabbuac said:


> We will never see the Lesner of 08-09, im sure of it.


Lesnar didnt get worse, and imo his disease had no effect. It was simply that he couldnt take a punch. It hadent came up until the Carwin fight, and unfortunatley from that one on he had killers in the stand up so he looked very weak against them.

And wait, is Heyman ACTUALLY Lesnar's representative? I thought that was just to give Heyman some relevance after ECW was bought.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Lesnar didnt get worse, and imo his disease had no effect. It was simply that he couldnt take a punch. It hadent came up until the Carwin fight, and unfortunatley from that one on he had killers in the stand up so he looked very weak against them.
> 
> And wait, is Heyman ACTUALLY Lesnar's representative? I thought that was just to give Heyman some relevance after ECW was bought.


Maybe...Just seemed like he was faster before - the way he looked against Mir and Couture looked a world apart from Cain and Overeem, but they are much better fighters so its hard to judge.


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

The arguments are over. Please get it back on track guys


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Quotes from you in another thread about your boxing experience when I called you out on it:
> 
> *Because boxing for fun is all I've been able to do for the last decade, dipshit.*
> 
> ...


Sorry, I'm 29. I've had multiple amateur fights and I'm supposed to walk with either a full leg brace or a cane at all times - doctor's orders. No narcissism. No compulsive lying. Sorry.

And all of your "evidence"? Well... it doesn't hold water. Care to try again or will you just shut up this time?



Joabbuac said:


> :laugh: you got him...
> 
> 
> Knew it....


Not quite, slugger.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Joabbuac said:


> Maybe...Just seemed like he was faster before - the way he looked against Mir and Couture looked a world apart from Cain and Overeem, but they are much better fighters so its hard to judge.


I think it was just who he had. Carwin and Cain rushed him and he went fetal both times. He never really had the chance to look fast, except in the Carwin fight where he basically fell on Carwin and accidently subbed him. With Overeem, he didnt have any range which is understandable against one of the best MMA kickboxers ever. Alister just stood at distance, caught him with kicks, then landed fast knees with great clinch control which hurt Lesnar too quickly for him to potentially catch a leg and take the fight down. THAT would have been a fight though.

But dont get me wrong. I think Lesnar loses every fight yet he has a great record coming out of imo the best line up of fighters of all time.


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## Fedornumber1! (Jun 18, 2008)

I think the disease had a huge effect on him. B4 the shit happend he was taking shots from couture and heath hearing, he knocked down frank mir and wasnt scared to stand up with him, then the disease came and that's when he started to bob sapp his way through striking, i really think it ****ed him up


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Fedornumber1! said:


> I think the disease had a huge effect on him. B4 the shit happend he was taking shots from couture and heath hearing, he knocked down frank mir and wasnt scared to stand up with him, then the disease came and that's when he started to bob sapp his way through striking, i really think it ****ed him up


He never got a chance to strike though. Unlike Couture and Herring, Carwin and Velasquez come right for you. In both cases they all but ran at him, threw punches, he fell, they continued the assault. Herring landed a few weak enough hits at distance before Lesnar landed the bomb. Couture was never on Carwin or Velasquez' striking level. If Lesnar came back, he'd be right back up there. Guys with weak to decent striking would be taken down and get pounded like they did before. Lesnar to me beats the likes of Nog, Bigfoot, Struve etc. The only guys that would stop him are JDS, Velasquez, Overeem, and Carwin.


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## Fedornumber1! (Jun 18, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> He never got a chance to strike though. Unlike Couture and Herring, Carwin and Velasquez come right for you. In both cases they all but ran at him, threw punches, he fell, they continued the assault. Herring landed a few weak enough hits at distance before Lesnar landed the bomb. Couture was never on Carwin or Velasquez' striking level. If Lesnar came back, he'd be right back up there. Guys with weak to decent striking would be taken down and get pounded like they did before. Lesnar to me beats the likes of Nog, Bigfoot, Struve etc. The only guys that would stop him are JDS, Velasquez, Overeem, and Carwin.


re-watch the heering fight, there was a point where heath had him somewhat up on the cage and landed a nice upercut which didn't phase brock seriously when you have that kind of surgery, it takes the fight out of ya


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

I believe it was GSP (paraphrasing here) that said when you lose your Achilles fist (I think that's what he called it) you are mentally broken. The Brock that came in and destroyed people, took a beating from Carwin then jumped up on the cage and hit himself in the face to prove he can take a punch, that guy was gone ever since the Carwin fight. 

That disease took his strength both mentally and physically, when you don't have that feeling of physical superiority anymore the entire game is changed. Brock had the potential to be a wrecking machine because few people could stop his takedown when he was determined, but once he got sick he lost his determination. I can understand that, however it's all because he ate a meat only diet, why nobody helped him out and corrected that boggles my mind. A world of potential down the drain because he wouldn't eat right.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

People realize that Paul Heyman isn't actually an agent right?

This is typically pro wrestling tomfoolery.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

of course people know that, but Heyman and Lesnar at the very least have contact with each other and Heyman hasn't been known to be the Don King type of pathological liar. He just seems like a normal mma fan with connections to a former champ


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

This is interesting. Nobody likes to get hit, but he surprised the heck outta me by withstanding the barrage by Carwin and ended up taking a SOTN win. Actually wasn't pissed off for losing cuz he earned it. Problem is, he doesn't strike which also means he's never been hit before. 

Also if you really think about it, he's your typical bully. Thus it's unlikely he ever gotten a serious beatdown so that feeling of getting your brain rattled is foreign to em. 

I still consider him a natural wonder ever since I first seen the trapz on em in WWE bodyslamming The Big Show. Tremendous amount of strength...has to be the strongest on par with Overeem. I mean if he had expert level boxing/muay Thai with a black belt in BJJ it would be pretty much game over man. That's the beauty of the sport. So many variations of fighter styles and attributes. 

Unlike Kurt Angle we don't have to wonder about Brock's potential. In my mind he was never a true MMA fighter, but he was able to compete at the highest levels and win the championship with good match ups and timing.

He's paved the way for a ton of other showman to fight for real which I find to be quite intriguing. You know deep down every WWE wrestler wants to be in the UFC. Take it for what it is though...


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

So when are we expecting Heyman to, er, break the ,er, news?


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

deadmanshand said:


> That's not what I said. Don't try and lie.* I train when I can now for fun *and I said 14 years not 10. But I said I had amateur fights in that thread too because you also called me a liar for not having an entire media library of my training and matches on hand to satisfy your curiosity.
> 
> So, grapple, please shut the **** up and stay out of this unless you actually have something to ******* contribute besides lies.


Just out of curiosity, how do you train now with your leg in a brace or with a cain? 

I would imagine the pivoting involved in throwing a real boxing punch would render that almost impossible with a torn thigh, let alone actually practicing kickboxing.

No offense, just curious.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

^This. With shin splints I'm already barley able to pivot.

And as for Brock with his disease. You said "he changed after the Carwin fight" (@ rabakill). The Carwin fight could have been easily stopped, making it no different from the Cain fight. Lesnar didnt do anything different in either fights. He lay fetal and took a beating. One ref opted to end it, one gave him the chance to go on. Luckily for Lesnar, Carwin half died in the first and he got the submission, but there was virtually no difference between the first rounds. 

I've got loads of respect for Lesnar and think he did something different and was highly successful with it, but when he faught proper strikers he crumbled every time.


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## BlueLander (Apr 11, 2010)

Joabbuac said:


> Plus...fighters dont put people on ignore...


And all this time I thought Jon Jones was a real fighter


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

BlueLander said:


> And all this time I thought Jon Jones was a real fighter


I was just trying to make sure he doesnt put me on ignore honestly :laugh:


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> ^This. With shin splints I'm already barley able to pivot.
> 
> And as for Brock with his disease. You said "he changed after the Carwin fight" (@ rabakill). The Carwin fight could have been easily stopped, making it no different from the Cain fight. Lesnar didnt do anything different in either fights. He lay fetal and took a beating. One ref opted to end it, one gave him the chance to go on. Luckily for Lesnar, Carwin half died in the first and he got the submission, but there was virtually no difference between the first rounds.
> 
> I've got loads of respect for Lesnar and think he did something different and was highly successful with it, but when he faught proper strikers he crumbled every time.


He was harder to break mentally, he took a beating because he sucks at striking and Carwin had good tdd. He broke so quickly against Cain and against Overeem he just didn't care at all, he was beaten before he even stepped in the octagon. It's the difference between when a fighter only loses if the other guy breaks him physically or when a fighter will beat himself, losing his sense of physical superiority took away all his confidence because he always knew he couldn't strike at all. Happens in every sport, take Rene Bourque for example, he was a wrecking machine of a hockey player, got injured, became a timid wuss that would shy away from guys half his size. The Brock that went in against Mir and Herring went in with fire, the Brock that fought Cain was unsure and the Brock that fought Overeem had a 0% chance of winning. It's like when a guy blows out his knee and he's always weary of going all out even if it does fully heal.

I'm not even blaming Brock, getting sick like that would end most people's athletic career.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> Just out of curiosity, how do you train now with your leg in a brace or with a cain?
> 
> I would imagine the pivoting involved in throwing a real boxing punch would render that almost impossible with a torn thigh, let alone actually practicing kickboxing.
> 
> No offense, just curious.


I'm supposed to use a cane or a leg brace. I don't. Out of stubborness more than anything. Mostly it's just that some days it's not that bad. Not often but when it's good - usually the day after I have access to a hot tub for a while - I put on a compression brace and go train for a while. Feels good just hitting the bag. If I'm lucky I get to spar for a bit.

But we're only talking a few days out of the month if I'm lucky. Less in spring and fall when the weather's changing but I do what I can do. More often I get to help train other guys. Which I do enjoy but I'm not a teacher at heart.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> ^This. With shin splints I'm already barley able to pivot.
> 
> And as for Brock with his disease. You said "he changed after the Carwin fight" (@ rabakill). The Carwin fight could have been easily stopped, making it no different from the Cain fight. Lesnar didnt do anything different in either fights. He lay fetal and took a beating. One ref opted to end it, one gave him the chance to go on. Luckily for Lesnar, Carwin half died in the first and he got the submission, but there was virtually no difference between the first rounds.


Which is correct is that Lesnar didn't fight back in both fights, so the referee could have stopped the fight against Carwin. But actually there was a difference: Because of Carwins stupidity, most of his shots landed on Lesnar's forearms. So Lesnar didn't get that hurt. In contrast, Velasquez picked his shots and really hurt Lesnar.

So against Carwin the fetal position was the result of timidity, against Velaasquez it was because of real damage.


Concerning the discussion whether you can learn how to take a punch and how to react on it, according to my observations over the years in the gyms, actually both parties where somewhat right. Yes, you can train to take a punch and to get rid of your timidity, BUT only to some extend. There are people who react better to pressure than other people, and they always will if they have comparable training. I'm not sure whether it's purely genetically or early childhood imprinting, but usually after less than a year of hard sparring you can see whether someone has that "never give up"-spirit under pressure or whether he hasn't. It's the same as in every other aspect of things to train. You can train to run and you will run faster, but only few people can get to Olympic level. And to stay at an elite level of MMA, you have to be one of those guys genetically gifted/correctly imprinted in early childhood at reacting to be under pressure. And Lesnar doesn't seem to be one of those, after his illness even less.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

rabakill said:


> He was harder to break mentally, he took a beating because he sucks at striking and Carwin had good tdd. He broke so quickly against Cain and against Overeem he just didn't care at all, he was beaten before he even stepped in the octagon. It's the difference between when a fighter only loses if the other guy breaks him physically or when a fighter will beat himself, losing his sense of physical superiority took away all his confidence because he always knew he couldn't strike at all. Happens in every sport, take Rene Bourque for example, he was a wrecking machine of a hockey player, got injured, became a timid wuss that would shy away from guys half his size. The Brock that went in against Mir and Herring went in with fire, the Brock that fought Cain was unsure and the Brock that fought Overeem had a 0% chance of winning. It's like when a guy blows out his knee and he's always weary of going all out even if it does fully heal.
> 
> I'm not even blaming Brock, getting sick like that would end most people's athletic career.


Okay, maybe getting smashed against Carwin hurt his ego, but that's still the fighter that's ego was hurt. He's the same fighter against Overeem and against Mir. Those striking insecurities were always there, he just had to get punched to feel them. I dont think his sickness was anything to do with his last two fights. To be fair, they were against two of the best heavyweights ever, both killer strikers, and he didnt stand a chance going in really.



Voiceless said:


> Which is correct is that Lesnar didn't fight back in both fights, so the referee could have stopped the fight against Carwin. But actually there was a difference: Because of Carwins stupidity, most of his shots landed on Lesnar's forearms. So Lesnar didn't get that hurt. In contrast, Velasquez picked his shots and really hurt Lesnar.
> 
> So against Carwin the fetal position was the result of timidity, against Velaasquez it was because of real damage.
> 
> ...


Yeah Velasquez finishes fights much better than Carwin. The referee could have stopped it but I have always been in Brock's corner with it. He was HATED at the time (well in non MMA site dicussions) and I sort of liked him. I defended him before it and when people said "They'd have ended it with anyone else, this is corrupt" I was thinking "He was able to come back and win the fight, he defended well enough that means". No chance with Cain.

Your last part wasnt really what we were talking about, but I agree with all of it.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

deadmanshand said:


> I'm supposed to use a cane or a leg brace. I don't. Out of stubborness more than anything. Mostly it's just that some days it's not that bad. Not often but when it's good - usually the day after I have access to a hot tub for a while - I put on a compression brace and go train for a while. Feels good just hitting the bag. If I'm lucky I get to spar for a bit.
> 
> But we're only talking a few days out of the month if I'm lucky. Less in spring and fall when the weather's changing but I do what I can do. More often I get to help train other guys. Which I do enjoy but I'm not a teacher at heart.


It's quite remarkable you'd be able to do that, knowing how easily torn muscles are re-torn. I've had some myself that re-tore multiple times, and after the third time or so I practically refused to acknowledge that I possessed the arm for nearly half a year, until I was bloody sure it was good as new.

It's also quite surprising that all your fights were on VHS and lost ... when you'd mentioned you're 29, the same age as myself, I couldn't help but recall the last time I'd seen a VHS tape. Probably watching Robocop and Lion King as a kid. Cheap digital cameras with video capability have been around for over a decade, and even video capable cell phones have been around and affordable for 6-7 years. So unless you had all your 30+ fights between age 14-17 in the pee wee leagues, it's surprising you never once felt the need to have a buddy or camp mate turn the ol cellphone your way for a few minutes while you were at your best.

And as mentioned before, you've thrown about a few different versions of your fighting experience and active years, all bound together by multiple subtexts and qualifications of "that number was because I was talking about blah, this new number is because of this" etc.

Not to mention your grandiose claims of NEVER. EVER. LYING. EVER. CEREAL. SUPER CEREAL. set quite a high bar as well. I generally believe lying to be wrong in my belief system, yet even so I've caught myself trying to bend the truth or exaggerating many times. 

So you can imagine why people on the internet get skeptical about your passive claims to badassery with possibly the largest fight record on the forum (over 30 amateur fights), while laughing about every equally dubious claim made by others like Joabbac or the purported pole-dancing ballerina bellator-fighter-girlfriend playboy centerfold that was on here a while back.

However, in the event everything you said is true, I don't want to deride you or hurt your feelings. I know what it's like to sit frustrated for months and in constant pain from torn muscles, being unable to do daily tasks normally let alone do what you love, so if what you say is true then it's much worse and I sincerely hope you do heal well over time. 

Whether or not your claims are true, only you know, and if they are more power to you and wish the best for your injury. Either way, your purported fight background doesn't matter too much and what matters is the validity of your views and posts on their own merit, because this is the internet and everything unproven is taken with a pinch of salt anyway. 

Try not to take it personally, because as mentioned, you've treated others' claims with the same lens. And when calling out others claims while presenting zero proof for your own, try not to get too riled up bro. It's only natural to question, as you of all people would know.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

To get back on topic-

Brock achieved so much with so little experience, he should leave it at this and move on. As for the Heyman reports? I'll believe it when I see it happen.


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## Dr Gonzo (May 27, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> People realize that Paul Heyman isn't actually an agent right?
> 
> This is typically pro wrestling tomfoolery.


Yeah as far as I'm aware he's just a friend and confident.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Quotes from you in another thread about your boxing experience when I called you out on it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He was so in to his hobbies that he crippled himself over it!

The term "get a hobby" really doesn't sit well in this case!:thumb02:


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## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

Come on guys keep this thread on topic - this is getting way out of hand.

I don't understand it, I thought Brock was completely done with MMA? And to be honest after his illness I was glad to see him retire - he didn't come back the same. 

I was hospitalized with stomach problems 4 years ago and still suffer from issues, it really messed up my life and it wasn't as bad as diverticulitis.I have mountains of respect for what Brock managed to accomplish in such a small time period in MMA and as much as he is a huge draw I want him to stay retired.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

There is this thing called private messages, use them... Or go start a different thread in the smacktalk section...


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