# Steven Seagal...dangerous...but how so?



## II TAP II (Dec 8, 2009)

Alright, I don't normally post on forums. But here's the thing, I was watch "Steven Seagal, Lawman" and I just got pissed off. I'm watching Steven Seagal talk about how confident he is in his combat abilities and etc etc. Now the guy can shoot, there's no doubt about it, but as far as h2h goes he knows an artform and that's it. Aikido is not a viable way to combat somebody who is aggressively fighting. I think he's been tricked into thinking he's tough because while he's wearing a badge he doesn't get ppl that want to fight him 100%. And i do feel that the joint locks and "throws" work somewhat well when somebody is 90% complient. Case and point is that no MMA fighter to my knowledge actively trains in Aikido (correct me if I'm wrong). I would argue that Seagal (even in his prime) would last less then 1 round with anybody even moderately versed in MMA. 

My problem with this is as follows:
Not only is he lying to himself and could possibly get himself injured or killed because of it. But he's teaching all of his teammates and tons of other departments. Do people not realize that this is a joke? Again nothing against him or aikido, but there's a place for everything, and aikido does not belong in real world combat situations. PLEASE RESPOND AND CORRECT ME IF I'M MISSING SOMETHING.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

can he shoot? i didnt know that.


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## II TAP II (Dec 8, 2009)

yeah he;s a fine shot, he just thinks he's super well versed in H2H. I don't get it... does he not know that MMA exists and that in the early 90's the Gracie family proved what works and what doesn't. Does he have blinders on? Along with everybody else around him? Doesn't anybody ever say... ok but what happens if I don't just stand here?? These are people who are paid to protect the public and they don't know enough about combat forms to know what he teaches is not functional?


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

II TAP II said:


> Alright, I don't normally post on forums. But here's the thing, I was watch "Steven Seagal, Lawman" and I just got pissed off. I'm watching Steven Seagal talk about how confident he is in his combat abilities and etc etc. Now the guy can shoot, there's no doubt about it, but as far as h2h goes he knows an artform and that's it. Aikido is not a viable way to combat somebody who is aggressively fighting. I think he's been tricked into thinking he's tough because while he's wearing a badge he doesn't get ppl that want to fight him 100%. And i do feel that the joint locks and "throws" work somewhat well when somebody is 90% complient. Case and point is that no MMA fighter to my knowledge actively trains in Aikido (correct me if I'm wrong). I would argue that Seagal (even in his prime) would last less then 1 round with anybody even moderately versed in MMA.
> 
> My problem with this is as follows:
> Not only is he lying to himself and could possibly get himself injured or killed because of it. But he's teaching all of his teammates and tons of other departments. Do people not realize that this is a joke? Again nothing against him or aikido, but there's a place for everything, and aikido does not belong in real world combat situations. PLEASE RESPOND AND CORRECT ME IF I'M MISSING SOMETHING.


I think you are missing the point of what 'self defense' means... this isnt about a cage match, its about trying to survive.

Aikido *IS* indeed a martial art... with Japanese roots.

Small joint locks ... ie. fingers, wrists, ankles DO work.
Throws DO work... 

BUT, as always, it will depend on how well versed your opponent is. ie. if you try a takedown on a guy not well versed on a sprawl, odds are you are gonna get it.

It also depend on how well prepared your opponent is on your tactics... ie. when you are expecting a throw its easy to anticipate and defend against it.

I completely agree though... that Segal would get PWND in a mma match in his prime.

IMHO, Aikido (and Korean Hapkido) have real-world 'self defense' techniques that can very effective and useful. But I will agree though.. it has very little to do with subdue and restrain... more about survival... so really, not appropriate for cops.

Ya gotta remember, Segal's team apparently has ZERO martial arts training and would probably get PWND by a criminal with a boxing background... they seem to rely more on their numbers and sheer size/mass/fat (not strength/endurance) as opposed to any technical merits.

I actually think his team is the big joke really... they are like fat keystone cops.

I think Segal is doing them a favor teaching them 'something' or 'anything' as opposed to what they have now... which apparently is 'nothing'


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

II TAP II said:


> yeah he;s a fine shot,


Huh, never knew that. has he competed?


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

HexRei said:


> Huh, never knew that. has he competed?


yeah and we are not talking about just a some what decent shot we are talking about a great shot to the point of shooting the head off a q-tip and match, he says he said something about trying to light the match head also. 

he has been a cop for 20 years. 

*also to the OP you know why MMA artist dont use akido in the cage, Because it is Illegal to do so. 
*
and yes Akido is a great martial arts that can be used greatly in real world settings


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

well if you have seen his aikido demo, you'll understand why I'm skeptical. IMHO the guy hasn't proven himself to be competent at anything, including acting, guitar, fighting, and now, I am speculating, shooting.


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## out 4 the count (Oct 13, 2008)

Fighting without gloves in the real world is a very different prospect to the sanctioned MMA matches in a cage.

Small joint locks can absolutely **** somebody if used properly with very minimal effort. It's one of the first things you learn in normal jiu jitsu as well.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

> 13:46-24A.15 Fouls
> 
> (a) The following are fouls and will result in penalties if committed:
> 1. Butting with the head;
> ...


http://www.state.nj.us/lps/sacb/docs/martial.html


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## hitmachine44 (Oct 15, 2006)

Why is this even a topic? Did Steven Seagal come out and say he was confident in his "MMA" abilities? The answer is: No. So who ******* cares how Steven Seagal would fare in an MMA match?


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Steven Seagal got choked out backstage and crapped his pants, true story.


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## ARM*BAR (Nov 7, 2009)

Ask Gene Lebell how dangerous Steven Segal is .
The two had a match and Lebell choked out Segal.
If you were some normal dude with no experience yes but if your a Gracie blue belt or pretty much any serious fighter training in Mixed Martial Arts there is not much a guy like Segal could do to you that you don't have done to you in camp. Segal may be dangerous at a certain range but once you get the clinch and drag him to the ground its game over


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## Greg (UK) (Apr 23, 2007)

ARM*BAR said:


> Ask Gene Lebell how dangerous Steven Segal is .
> The two had a match and Lebell choked out Segal.
> If you were some normal dude with no experience yes but if your a Gracie blue belt or pretty much any serious fighter training in Mixed Martial Arts there is not much a guy like Segal could do to you that you don't have done to you in camp. Segal may be dangerous at a certain range but once you get the clinch and drag him to the ground its game over


Kind of true, Seagal let Gene Lebell put him in a choke hold (rear naked I believe) to prove that he could get out of it......he didn't however and got choked out.
Which was good cos he apparently is notorious for being arrogant and rude to stuntmen. I wouldn't be being rude to Gene Lebell!


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

HexRei said:


> well if you have seen his aikido demo, you'll understand why I'm skeptical. IMHO the guy hasn't proven himself to be competent at anything, including acting, guitar, fighting, and now, I am speculating, shooting.


what about squinting and standing there, he's good at that.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

M_D said:


> yeah and we are not talking about just a some what decent shot we are talking about a great shot to the point of shooting the head off a q-tip and match, he says he said something about trying to light the match head also.
> 
> he has been a cop for 20 years.
> 
> ...


This ^^^



rabakill said:


> what about squinting and standing there, he's good at that.


LOL, that and snapping necks.



ARM*BAR said:


> Ask Gene Lebell how dangerous Steven Segal is .
> The two had a match and Lebell choked out Segal.
> If you were some normal dude with no experience yes but if your a Gracie blue belt or pretty much any serious fighter training in Mixed Martial Arts there is not much a guy like Segal could do to you that you don't have done to you in camp. Segal may be dangerous at a certain range but once you get the clinch and drag him to the ground its game over


You're kind of overstating it a lil bit. They didn't really have a "match" and let's not forget who Gene LeBell is, an Olympic Judo legend and an MMA practioner.


Steven Seagal is a crazy dude. He's just wierd. But no matter how douchey he can be don't let that make you think Aikido is worthless in a street fight. It's actually one of the most effective arts to use in a street fight if you are good enough at it. I took it for 8 years and I know first hand how well it works on people who have no idea what to expect. Although it's not as dramatic as some YouTube videos I have seen.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> It's actually one of the most effective arts to use in a street fight if you are good enough at it.


This is the truth. Aikido isn't about shitkicking your opponent. It's about not getting hit and using the opponents momentum against him. How effective it is on the ground i do not know. What i do know that if you go toe to toe with a brown-belt or higher in a street-fight, you probably won't land any strikes standing up.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

M_D said:


> yeah and we are not talking about just a some what decent shot we are talking about a great shot to the point of shooting the head off a q-tip and match, he says he said something about trying to light the match head also.
> 
> he has been a cop for 20 years.
> 
> ...



Let's not tote Aikido like it's some insanely effective killing art that's illegal because it's too dangerous. 

Small joint manipulation is illegal because fighters have no problem fighting with small broken joints, so the submissions would do nothing but endanger the fighter needlessly. Judo and Greco have been proven more effective for throws and trips and are therefor trained more. 



hitmachine44 said:


> Why is this even a topic? Did Steven Seagal come out and say he was confident in his "MMA" abilities? The answer is: No. So who ******* cares how Steven Seagal would fare in an MMA match?



MMA is at it's core about what happens in a "real" street fight, topics like this are exactly why MMA was created... why shit on the thread for no reason?



For what it's worth I took Aikido for a time to learn how to fall correctly - it was extremely helpful. For survival situations I'll definitely take BJJ chokes and Krav Maga more seriously.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

khoveraki said:


> Let's not tote Aikido like it's some insanely effective killing art that's illegal because it's too dangerous.
> 
> Small joint manipulation is illegal because fighters have no problem fighting with small broken joints, so the submissions would do nothing but endanger the fighter needlessly. Judo and Greco have been proven more effective for throws and trips and are therefor trained more.


It's not just the finger joints they are worried about. Aikido also employs a ton of wrist-breaking maneuvers (that are also categorized as small joints) that can leave a fighter's hand completely useless for months at a time (and it's not like breaking your hand from a hard poorly thrown punch either). Plus they are not submissions that you can slowly apply and give the fighter time to tap. It's one fluid motion that completely breaks your wrist in different ways. Though it may be a bit harder to do with gloves and tape on, it's still possible. And once you know how to do them good they're not that hard to use. I did them for so long that it feels like instinct to use them when someone swings at me. I don't even think about it, and I probably would never be good in a sanctioned match cuz of this lol, I'd get DQed in the first exchange.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> It's not just the finger joints they are worried about. Aikido also employs a ton of wrist-breaking maneuvers (that are also categorized as small joints)


Really? Do you have a citation for that? Everything I've read in the past indicates that small joints are defined as fingers and toes.

I have serious doubts about their effectiveness when wearing gloves and wraps anyway.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

HexRei said:


> Really? Do you have a citation for that? Everything I've read in the past indicates that small joints are defined as fingers and toes.
> 
> I have serious doubts about their effectiveness when wearing gloves and wraps anyway.


Agreed, and IIRC the wrist methods he's mentioning are based on throws - throws that are nearly impossible to do against a skilled opponent. We were never taught any that'd be relevant in a groundfight at least.


Aikido, in my opinion, is one of those martial arts that's fine against unskilled guys... but totally useless against anyone skilled or expecting the moves.







I guess their throws are okay against someone running blindly past you with their arm out who's fine with being thrown...


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

The Aikido classes that I took were nothing like the ones you see one YouTube, like I said before. I don't know if I took straight Aikido or a hybrid art. Because yea.....it's nothing like those YouTube videos. That shit looks more like choreography.

But more than likely the wraps around the wrist would make it a helluva lot harder to do anything with them.

That move Karo used on Dave Strasser was something I learned in Aikido and Judo classes so maybe I didn't take traditional Aikido classes. And maybe I'm wrong about the wrists being considered small joints but I know there's more than fancy throws there are actual wrist breaking submissions that seem dangerous for a fighter because they break your wrist awkwardly.


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