# Wow - Lesnar vs. Mir = BS



## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Why in the world was that fight stood up when Lesnar was moments away from finishing Mir? Because Mir turns away and takes a shot in the back of the head?

Great job by Mir to grab that knee, but that call was BS IMO


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> Why in the world was that fight stood up when Lesnar was moments away from finishing Mir? Because Mir turns away and takes a shot in the back of the head?
> 
> Great job by Mir to grab that knee, but that call was BS IMO


Nah man he was hitting Mir in the back of the head. You cant deny it, he was hitting him in the back of the head!! Mir looked stunned at first but I knew eventually Mir would catch him.

P.S. Im not gonna lie, I thought Mir was all done early.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> Why in the world was that fight stood up when Lesnar was moments away from finishing Mir? Because Mir turns away and takes a shot in the back of the head?
> 
> Great job by Mir to grab that knee, but that call was BS IMO


Brock could have ended the fight with a few more shots like that to the back of the head. I thought it was a good time out, I was confused though.. I initially thought the fight was stopped.

Ready to wear that Hilary sig bro? :laugh:


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## Braveheart (Oct 11, 2006)

i disagree, Lesnar did a couple of illegal blows and thats what refs are there for. plus, Lesnar soon regain same position, only to get caught in the submission web.


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## valvetronix (Feb 3, 2008)

I thought it was a horrid call to.

So lenient on head shots earlier in the night, and when Mir TURNED his head, and was hit in the back of his head, the fight was reset. Which certainly favored Mir, even if he was immedietley taken back down.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

I think the ref jumped in to stop the fight, realised his mistake and called a timeout for strikes to the back of the head to cover his mistake. Thats honestly what I saw happening.


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Wow dude calm down those were clearly to the back of the head and He wasnt planning on stopping. if it hadnt been stood up he would have continued and if had finished him like that been DQ'ed you would be even less happy with that. Mir put the smackdown with the Anklelock just be happy Lesnar looked.... exactly like everyone thought he would. But seriously chill you cant be mad at Mir for getting hit in the back of the head. I thought Lesnar was really impressive but hey if your gonna complain about this ten why not say. GOD STUPID NOG TAKING THE FIGHT TO THE GROUND WHEN SYLVIA NEARLY HAD HIM FINISH ON THE FEET. Its a fight dude thats how it goes, i thought it was a good stoppage personally. Not trying to be a dick but theres no reason to get so upset.

Sorry if I sounded like a dickhole in this post but hey my adrenaline is pumping cause i just won a TON of money on these fights and yeah seriously sorry if I seemed like an ass because i truly was impressed with Lesnar and I agree it probably determined the fight but really man those were to the back of the head.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

The guy is reiging bombs on Mir, Mir turns his head, eats one or two, and NO WARNING, POINT DEDUCTION, STANDUP...losing his dominant position where he was really putting it to Mir....

I don't think it was any conspiracy thing, but just a bad call and I think it did determine the outcome....

btw: thx for being mature repliers and not being like "your boy lost, get over it"


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## Split (Sep 28, 2006)

I also thought it was BS, but looking at it again, this wasnt a final flurry to finish Mir off(in which cases refs dont care, and just end the fight and would award Brock as winner).. Mir was still able to defend(barely, but still), and Brock kept going everywhere on his head. Also, but im not sure, i beleive Mir said something to the ref, which is maybe why the ref stopped it, but im just speculating, not sure about that one.



Anyways, it was really weird fight.

I wasnt impressed by Mir, and i wasnt by Brock either, but he did what i expected him to do.

I dont see a future for him however, just another circus attraction. He can kill a guy in 20 seconds, thats for sure, but i am sure that at the pace he was going, he would of gassed within 1 round.

But wow, his strikes look to hurt really bad..


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## Split (Sep 28, 2006)

and your boy lost, get over it :thumb02:


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## pliff (Oct 5, 2006)

I think the ref did the right thing by calling the shots to the back of the head but 1 point? really?

I mean give the guy a warning, it didnt look like he was doing on purpose...

A good call, but a little too quick for the point deduction IMO.


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## G-S-P (Sep 1, 2007)

Mazzagatti should have given Brock a warning after the two shots from the back of the head, rather then deducting a point. However, standing the fight up was a good call, and Lesnar's lack of experience and is what hurt him most. Not to mention being matched with an opponent of potent submission expertise, in only his second professional fight.

Seasoning + Experience = Lesnar's emergence as a star in the HW division


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

I was actually really impressed by Lesnar, besides the stupid mistake he made at the end...

I think he'll beat Tim Sylvia


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## raymardo (Jun 21, 2006)

Mir turned his head and took a grazing blow. It should not have been stood up. 

Brock ended up in the same position again, but was seconds from stopping Mir before the undue stand up.

Bad call. It cost Lesnar, but at least he learned that he needs to train to defend those subs. Props to Mir on the ankle lock. Sweet.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Brock looked exactly like I thought he would but he wasn't ready to be on the ground with a great BJJ guy.

Brock has a ton of potential but isn't ready for this level of fighters.

I thought the stand up was fine. I think there needs to be more stand ups for punches to the back of the head.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

raymardo said:


> Mir turned his head and took a grazing blow. It should not have been stood up.
> 
> Brock ended up in the same position again, but was seconds from stopping Mir before the undue stand up.
> 
> Bad call. It cost Lesnar, but at least he learned that he needs to train to defend those subs. Props to Mir on the ankle lock. Sweet.


agreed

i was disappointed he lost, but I think he proved he has real potential to be a champion once he learns some submission defence....it's going to take a while and alot of training, but give him a year or two of fighting good fighters and he'll be ready


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## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

I guess it was a questionable call but he did hit him in the back of the head so what are you going to do? This just proved that Lesnar fighting in the UFC was a joke. He did exactly what we already knew he could which is get a takedown and then get submitted.


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## Racerboy44 (Jun 24, 2007)

Split said:


> I also thought it was BS, but looking at it again, this wasnt a final flurry to finish Mir off(in which cases refs dont care, and just end the fight and would award Brock as winner).. Mir was still able to defend(barely, but still), and Brock kept going everywhere on his head. Also, but im not sure, i beleive Mir said something to the ref, which is maybe why the ref stopped it, but im just speculating, not sure about that one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How do you not see a future for him? He almost had Mir out of there in like 20 secs. I wanted Mir to win, but from what I saw Brock looks to be very game and very strong! He is going to give some guys a real beating!! I thought he was going to be a joke but he looked very coordinated and fast on his feet. I expect to see him look even better next time.


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## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

His GnP was terrible. Mir didn't look hurt from taking it and almost didn't block it. 

But as a standup fighter Lesnar has a clear future in the UFC! (not sure weather to be sarcastic about this or not. He DID show some standup KO power)


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

joppp said:


> His GnP was terrible. Mir didn't look hurt from taking it and almost didn't block it.
> 
> But as a standup fighter Lesnar has a clear future in the UFC! (not sure weather to be sarcastic about this or not. He DID show some standup KO power)


I'm recovering from a few pitchers, so excuse me if I'm incorrect, but Lesnar's stand-up looked crap from what I remember. He has power, but no technique, evident in his flat-footedness and throwing punches with his arms.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

*2-2 for me bros...lol*

...Told ya....Mir by Submission......Nogueria by Submission...I called it right. Everybody who disagreed with me...:confused03:


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## vader (Sep 16, 2007)

I thought it was a BS call also. He could have warned him. Mir turned his head towards him to avoid the blows and got caught with 2 quick head shots. Thought the call was a little much, should have at least warned first. Most fight have a quick warning before deducting a point.


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## Bebop (Aug 15, 2006)

BrutalKO said:


> ...Told ya....Mir by Submission......Nogueria by Submission...I called it right. Everybody who disagreed with me...:confused03:


You're the Man, Buddy!


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## Robopencil (Feb 7, 2007)

Woah, woah, woah. Now I picked Mir for that fight, and I'm definitely glad he won. But bad GNP? I thought Lesnar's ground and pound was awesome. Was positive that Mir had lost the fight, he was taking some bombs. Oh, and I could be wrong (gunna watch the fight again) but I'm pretty sure Mir was hit in the back of the head 3 times all together.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

BrutalKO said:


> ...Told ya....Mir by Submission......Nogueria by Submission...I called it right. Everybody who disagreed with me...:confused03:


I picked Mir for sub, but I picked Nog by Split Decision. :dunno:


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## Robopencil (Feb 7, 2007)

Unfortunately I didn't bet, but I picked both Mir and Nog on that $2,000,000 challenge and I thought they would both win by sub.


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## JT42 (Dec 31, 2006)

I thought it was a good call because Lesnar was so reckless in his GNP. He was just wailing bombs not really aiming them. An experienced fighter generally measures their shots, even if only for a moment, to ensure they are legal. With Lesnar's power, one shot to the back of the head could have ended the fight so I thought it was a good call. Lesnar got right back to that same position throwing bombs so it didnt really hurt him.


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## PitbullX (Jul 4, 2006)

If Lesnars GnP was soooo bad, what was the red stuff coming from Mirs forehead?

The UFC needed a headline grabber and got it with Brock VS Frank. Frank is back in good form and Brock will only get better. 

Why all the negativity about it?


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## Robopencil (Feb 7, 2007)

True, his GNP may need some refinement, but it was very solid. And the best part of his game.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

BrutalKO said:


> ...Told ya....Mir by Submission......Nogueria by Submission...I called it right. Everybody who disagreed with me...:confused03:


I was 8-1 and got both those fights right so IDK what you are talking about.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

Split said:


> and your boy lost, get over it :thumb02:


:thumb02::thumb02:...all hype, all hype.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

I guess my issue with it is it goes against the grain of what usually happens in the UFC, Ive see a lot of fights and inevitably someone takes a few illegal blows to the back of the head when it goes to the ground. 99% of the time the ref just ignores it, tells them to stop or stands them up. But to call a time out? ehh I'm not too happy about that.


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## BrAinDeaD (Oct 15, 2006)

It wasn't a good call at all. Most illegal blows come with a warning. Mir turned the back of his head into the shot while Lesnar fist was already coming down. A warning should have at least been yelled out first instead of stopping the action to take a point away. It's not like it was multiple shots to the back of the head, but only one. Awful call. 

Good win for Mir though.


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## elardo (Jul 8, 2007)

Good win for Mir though.

indeed.


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## Robopencil (Feb 7, 2007)

BrAinDeaD said:


> It wasn't a good call at all. Most illegal blows come with a warning. Mir turned the back of his head into the shot while Lesnar fist was already coming down. A warning should have at least been yelled out first instead of stopping the action to take a point away. It's not like it was multiple shots to the back of the head, but only one. Awful call.
> 
> Good win for Mir though.


Bah, I can't comment for sure till I watch the fight again. But I and a few others are positive it was more than 1 punch. I counted three myself.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

http://www.mmatko.com/brock-lesnar-vs-frank-mir-fight-video-ufc-81/

wow I just realized that I was 100% right

watch that again...there is NO WAY those shots warranted s standup, point deduction, with no warning

bad call steve


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## Robopencil (Feb 7, 2007)

True that it goes against the grain though. Usually I'm miffed by the lack of punishment for shots too the back of the head. Now it's like they cracked down too hard almost.


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## JAROTO (Aug 28, 2006)

I didnt have the opportunity to see the match and im not sure how it happened but I remember Matt Hughes giving Royce Gracie some punches in the back of the head at UFC 60....was this a similar situation?


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

JAROTO said:


> I didnt have the opportunity to see the match and im not sure how it happened but I remember Matt Hughes giving Royce Gracie some punches in the back of the head at UFC 60....was this a similar situation?


wasn't even in the same league


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## elardo (Jul 8, 2007)

I wouldn't think that the call was made to purposely screw Lesnar. He's the new "big investment" for the UFC. I think that his lack of experience warranted a closer eye, and that's why action was taken so quickly. Nobody wanted someone like Lesnar to seriously hurt someone due to his lack of experience, especially since so many WWF fans and the media were taking note of this fight.

If he was truly prepared, it wouldn't have come to this. It's too bad for him that he messed up.


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## BrAinDeaD (Oct 15, 2006)

Steve was quicker to step in and take a point away then he was to stop the fight while Lesnar was tapping. Anyone notice that? lol


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

elardo said:


> I wouldn't think that the call was made to purposely screw Lesnar. He's the new "big investment" for the UFC. I think that his lack of experience warranted a closer eye, and that's why action was taken so quickly. Nobody wanted someone like Lesnar to seriously hurt someone due to his lack of experience, especially since so many WWF fans and the media were taking note of this fight.
> 
> If he was truly prepared, it wouldn't have come to this. It's too bad for him that he messed up.


i specifically said i didn't believe it was to screw lesnar, i just think it was a horrible call by steve mazzagatti


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## yorT (Apr 22, 2007)

Yes i agree, i just think the people that are mad are the ones that bet on lesnar to win. Brock made a mistake in thinking he could just over power him then got caught, it was lesnars fought for losing not the refees.


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## JAROTO (Aug 28, 2006)

WTF! i just saw the match!!! what a stupid referee! he should be fired!


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

I initially thought it was a bad call, but on the replay I totally agreed with it. Looked like he caught a grazing shot to the back of the head, just like GSP did from Serra, then turned away and Brock landed a couple hammer fists to the back of Mir's head. Brock was just flailing wildly, looked like he didn't care where or how they were landing.

And watching it a second time, Mir did seem to barely, just barely, keep his composure in that first GNP attack. And was doing a lot better the second time, and even going for armbars. 

Before the fight I just had a gut feeling that Brock was going to lose by some kind of leg lock. 

Brock did impress me just a little bit. He is still very raw, and needs a major tune up and could possibly turn into a good fighter. They should match him up with Tim now lol.


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## Lloyd (Oct 15, 2006)

Props to Mir for hanging in there and getting the win. If this fight was going by the old UFC rules or a real street fight Brock would have won. The blows to the back of the head intentional or not warranted the stand up.


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## Pr0d1gy (Sep 25, 2006)

Terrible officiating in this match. Lesnar was clearly already raining down blows and Mir clearly turned his head to avoid them, thus causing Brock to hit him in the back of the head. Personally, I felt the entire bout was a complete fiasco. On the street, Lesnar has Mir out cold within 30 seconds.

I'm not a Lesnar fan, and he may be too old to really get the proper MMA knowledge, but it is hard to deny that Lesnar could be everything that Hughes was to his weight class and more if he tries. That guy is a monster.


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## Pr0d1gy (Sep 25, 2006)

Lloyd said:


> Props to Mir for hanging in there and getting the win. If this fight was going by the old UFC rules or a real street fight Brock would have won. The blows to the back of the head intentional or not warranted the stand up.


Not if the fighter turns the back of his head into the blows. That was an absolute joke.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Pr0d1gy said:


> Terrible officiating in this match. Lesnar was clearly already raining down blows and Mir clearly turned his head to avoid them, thus causing Brock to hit him in the back of the head. Personally, I felt the entire bout was a complete fiasco. On the street, Lesnar has Mir out cold within 30 seconds.
> 
> I'm not a Lesnar fan, and he may be too old to really get the proper MMA knowledge, but it is hard to deny that Lesnar could be everything that Hughes was to his weight class and more if he tries. That guy is a monster.


lesnar is 30...he could very well have 5 or 6 or more solid years left of mma


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

yorT said:


> Yes i agree, i just think the people that are mad are the ones that bet on lesnar to win. Brock made a mistake in thinking he could just over power him then got caught, it was lesnars fought for losing not the refees.


I bet on Mir.


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## Lloyd (Oct 15, 2006)

Pr0d1gy said:


> Not if the fighter turns the back of his head into the blows. That was an absolute joke.


Hey i was pulling for Lesnar and lost a bunch of points but its just like in boxing with a low blow, intentional or not you break up the fighters to give the one who recieved the foul time to recover. I really wanted Lesnar to win and the stand up cost him the match. A fouls a foul, Brock will fight again and hopefully hes more carefull next time.


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## Organik (Aug 28, 2006)

TheNegation said:


> I think the ref jumped in to stop the fight, realised his mistake and called a timeout for strikes to the back of the head to cover his mistake. Thats honestly what I saw happening.


yea seriously, **** this, he didnt even get warned and had a point taken away.. then it shows, rob emerson punching nakamura in the back of his head and not a thing done about it

horrible call, no matter what anyone says.. i can find 1000 ufc fights with more shots to the back of the head and nothing done about it. bullshit


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Organik said:


> yea seriously, **** this, he didnt even get warned and had a point taken away.. then it shows, rob emerson punching nakamura in the back of his head and not a thing done about it
> 
> horrible call, no matter what anyone says.. i can find 1000 ufc fights with more shots to the back of the head and nothing done about it. bullshit


yeah...gsp vs. hughes 3 comes to mind where gsp was warned 3 times for much crisper shots to the back of the head....and no point, no timeout


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## elardo (Jul 8, 2007)

Lesnar had no real accuracy. It's his fault, not the ref's.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

elardo said:


> Lesnar had no real accuracy. It's his fault, not the ref's.


rewatch the fight b4 you comment, becuz it was clear Mir was turning away and ate a grazing hammerfist to the head, becuz he was turteling

the more i watch it the more i"m appalled that he lost a point for that

a part of me is glad lesnar lost tho...if he didn't lose, it would have taken another fight b4 he realized he needed to work on his bjj


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## JAROTO (Aug 28, 2006)

seriously guys just take a look at Hughes vs Gracie! he beat him by punching him mostly in the back of the head! Lesnar was screwed with that call! even a wwe referee would make a better job than that *****


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## elardo (Jul 8, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> becuz he was turteling


well since you put it that way...I'm SOLD!


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## Lloyd (Oct 15, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> rewatch the fight b4 you comment, becuz it was clear Mir was turning away and ate a grazing hammerfist to the head, becuz he was turteling
> 
> the more i watch it the more i"m appalled that he lost a point for that
> 
> a part of me is glad lesnar lost tho...if he didn't lose, it would have taken another fight b4 he realized he needed to work on his bjj


Yeah good point the loss will only make him better.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> rewatch the fight b4 you comment, becuz it was clear Mir was turning away and ate a grazing hammerfist to the head, becuz he was turteling
> 
> the more i watch it the more i"m appalled that he lost a point for that
> 
> a part of me is glad lesnar lost tho...if he didn't lose, it would have taken another fight b4 he realized he needed to work on his bjj


You cant be serious. Mir goes to grab his leg to sweep and Brock hits him in the base of his skull 3 or 4 times cleanly. I dont agree with the point deduction but I do with the reset.

Either way liek someone else said, had he finished like that its DQ.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> You cant be serious. Mir goes to grab his leg to sweep and Brock hits him in the base of his skull 3 or 4 times cleanly. I dont agree with the point deduction but I do with the reset.
> 
> Either way liek someone else said, had he finished like that its DQ.


http://www.mmatko.com/brock-lesnar-vs-frank-mir-fight-video-ufc-81/

you can't be serious...to reset a fight in the ufc b/c of those?


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## JAROTO (Aug 28, 2006)

TraMaI said:


> You cant be serious. Mir goes to grab his leg to sweep and Brock hits him in the base of his skull 3 or 4 times cleanly. I dont agree with the point deduction but I do with the reset.
> 
> Either way liek someone else said, had he finished like that its DQ.



so hughes should have been DQ against Gracie.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Three shots to the base of his skull? Yeah.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> Three shots to the base of his skull? Yeah.


wtf are you talking about, a hammerfist to the backside of the head, to a turtling Mir ? it's a fight for Christ's sakes, other ref's have warned several times for much much less


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Im saying if he wouldv e FINISHED him like that it wouldve been a DQ, sorry if there was a misunderstanding. The stand up was justified IMO, not necisarilly the point deduction. Either way Brock got back to a dominant position very quick and landed some big shots, then got caught.


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## JAROTO (Aug 28, 2006)

it was a terrible call. i dont get why some of you guys still think it was a good one. unless the ufc turned gay it was a stupid call.


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

Pr0d1gy said:


> Not if the fighter turns the back of his head into the blows. That was an absolute joke.


No if a fighter turns you can hit him just not on the back of the head or neck.
Mir turning away didn’t FORCE Brock to throw punches.

Brock had the choice when Mir turned to throw in some body punches (that’s what I would do) and avoid the back of the head and neck.

I didn’t like the idea of Lesnar coming into the UFC, I was worried that this is the beginning of the end, another freak show like fake wrestling but I think he actually has potential if he gets with a good BJJ trainer and is more PATIENT!

Had Brock been a little more patient he may have avoided the sub and won.

Bad call by the ref standing it back up, taking a point away was irrelevant.


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

Eh, I agree he was in trouble at the start there, but I agree with the call, well maybe they should have just been put back in the same position. Strikes to the back of the head are f**kin dangerous. And Brock clearly had no regard for where they were landing. 

But that kneebar or foot look could have been seen by someone more experienced a mile away.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

JAROTO said:


> it was a terrible call. i dont get why some of you guys still think it was a good one. unless the ufc turned gay it was a stupid call.


By gay you mean stops caring about fighter's saftey I presume?


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

joey__stalin said:


> Eh, I agree he was in trouble at the start there, but I agree with the call. Strikes to the back of the head are f**kin dangerous. And Brock clearly had no regard for where they were landing.
> 
> But that kneebar or foot look could have been seen by someone more experienced a mile away.


I know he went for it twice in a row lol


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## Slug (Apr 8, 2007)

VERY BAD CALL TO STAND IT BACK UP.. and take a point away? WTF.. MIR TURNED HIS HEAD TO TAKE THAT HIT TO THE BACK OF THE HEAD.

In any case, Mir had a nice submission to end the fight. However, Brock was beating his ass though.


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## JAROTO (Aug 28, 2006)

somehow i think it was a win/win result. Brock showed wrestlers can fight and Mir showed how effective are mma. the only real looser this night was the ref IMO.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Like ESPAD said, Mir didnt FORCE him to throw punches at him, he landed 3 or 4 on him at least 2 hafter he had turned.


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## CTFlyingKnee (Jul 5, 2006)

stop crying over spilled milk.....lesnar is a fraud who cant follow the rules and has no MMA game.....A true MMA artist showed him tonight.......glad to be a MIR fan


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## masthrrck (Mar 5, 2007)

CTFlyingKnee said:


> stop crying over spilled milk.....lesnar is a fraud who cant follow the rules and has no MMA game.....A true MMA artist showed him tonight.......glad to be a MIR fan


yea ur right idk y everyone is complaining it happened and its lesnars fault


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## Evo (Feb 12, 2007)

The point deduction was a little harsh and the first strike only landed on the back of Mir's head because he was ducking, but the next two that were thrown landed on the back of Mir's head because Lesnar got caught up in the moment. If Lesnar had messed Mir up from those strikes and ended up winning the fight because of it, you'd all be throwing a fit. Either way, you aren't going to be happy.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

CTFlyingKnee said:


> stop crying over spilled milk.....lesnar is a fraud who cant follow the rules and has no MMA game.....A true MMA artist showed him tonight.......glad to be a MIR fan


:confused03::shame02::fight03::sarcastic11: :sign02: :bye02::bye02::bye02:


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## JAROTO (Aug 28, 2006)

http://www.mmatko.com/matt-hughes-vs-royce-gracie-mma-fight-video-ufc-60/

take a look at the end of this fight. hughes was declared the winner by punching Gracie in the back of the head more than once.


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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

masthrrck said:


> yea ur right idk y everyone is complaining it happened and its lesnars fault


You are being way to harsh, I think solely based on the fact that many other fighters hit in the back of the head numerous times in a row and only receive a warning, that was a bad call. When it immediately happened I didn't even know what was going on. If it was that bad we would have all known why it was stopped right away.


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## jeremy202 (Feb 3, 2008)

Aaronyman said:


> Why in the world was that fight stood up when Lesnar was moments away from finishing Mir? Because Mir turns away and takes a shot in the back of the head?
> 
> Great job by Mir to grab that knee, but that call was BS IMO


 
lesnar deserved to ****ing win.He pulzarized mir but the ref favored mir so he gave mir advanges


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

It was definitely a bad stoppage by the ref, he should have at least given him a verbal warning first. The shots were illegal, but be honest we see them in EVERY fight and almost without exception there is a verbal warning at least once and usually a couple of times. I do believe Lesnar would have won this fight if it wasn't stood up and Mir given a chance to regain his wits, those hands were not stopping any time soon and it was only a matter of time before they forced a stoppage. Hats off to Mir though, he pulled a slick knee bar and got the W. I'm anxious for Lesnar's next fight, we all know one thing for certain, it won't be boring. Man that dude is QUICK.


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## jasonc84 (Nov 9, 2007)

jeremy202 said:


> lesnar deserved to ****ing win.He pulzarized mir but the ref favored mir so he gave mir advanges


I can not agree with this..... I don't think Lesnar was going to win, he was going to get caught no matter what IMO.... I really think the point deduction with no warning was un called for but i agree with what some have said, this was Lesnars 2nd fight i'm guessing the ref was just watching him more closely, he clearly was so caught up in the moment and had no control over what he was doing was just throwing wildly..... And i'm gonna have to say that i don't think Lesnar was anywhere near close to knocking Mir out, he was still moving and defending himself he rolled towards Lesnar i think not just to get out of the way of the punchs but to possibly gain a better poistion. Just my 2 cents, and honestly like someone said if he knocked him out with strikes to the back of the head and got DQed everyone would still be saying Steve made a bad call..... Either way i'm happy to see Mir win and even happier to see Lesnar lose, he needs to go train as an MMA fighter and not just think size and wrestling is going to make him the new dominant force in the UFC. Since hearing about him being signed i've thought it was a joke, 1 MMA fight come on its just stupid.


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## Organik (Aug 28, 2006)

the more i watch this, the more upset i am about it..

even joe rogan comments on it right away..

bullshit.. mir was hurt, and it wasnt going to stop.

i knew it was a bad call when i seen it, but now that i go back and watch it again.. wow


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## burke_p (Oct 15, 2007)

this was BS. did anyone see the elbow that nate crashed into the back of Horns head that could have crippled him.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

JAROTO said:


> http://www.mmatko.com/matt-hughes-vs-royce-gracie-mma-fight-video-ufc-60/
> 
> take a look at the end of this fight. hughes was declared the winner by punching Gracie in the back of the head more than once.


BAHAHA if I remember right, that fight was called because of a RNC Hughes sunk in on him... I dont distinctly remember Hughes landing a lot of shots to the back of the head but Im re watching it.


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## Organik (Aug 28, 2006)

TraMaI said:


> BAHAHA if I remember right, that fight was called because of a RNC Hughes sunk in on him... I dont distinctly remember Hughes landing a lot of shots to the back of the head but Im re watching it.


yea re watching that fight even proves this point more.. mat landed atlaeast 10 shots to the backl fo his head there. and they seemed to be ALOT harder thrown then brocks were.. although damage wise hah prolly the same


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Those werent at the base of his skul though, most of those were around the temple or back of the ears, but I'll agree that he did land a few to the back of his head.


EDIT: Also it was a different ref...


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## Organik (Aug 28, 2006)

still tho. 

if lesnar was doing whar hughes was doing, they would have probably got him a police escort out of the building or got him charged with assault


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## JAROTO (Aug 28, 2006)

Organik said:


> still tho.
> 
> if lesnar was doing whar hughes was doing, they would have probably got him a police escort out of the building or got him charged with assault


yeah, its the same I though!:thumb02:. i believe Lesnar would have won this fight if it wasnt for the call. everytime i watch it it makes me sick. Looks like the referee was trying to help Mir... if you know what i mean. seriously this could have been a 30 sec KO. 

On the other hand Lesnar has too much to learn. the fact that he could have won the match doesnt mean he is a great fighter. he should have seen that knee lock coming. Hope he returns and kicks a$$.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Yeah I agree with you there. But someone else said the ref probably didnt want Brock to get DQ'd and Hughes blows werent directly to the base of his skull like Lesnars were, so there's a good chance he couldve been DQd.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

I just don't see why the ref called a timeout and stood the fight back up, when we have seen many fights where the ref just warns not to hit in the back of the head.

There was a fight tonight, that I cannot remember, but a fighter was warned to hit the back of the head like 2 or 3 times. Was it Nate? I can't remember.


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## JAROTO (Aug 28, 2006)

TraMaI said:


> Yeah I agree with you there. But someone else said the ref probably didnt want Brock to get DQ'd and Hughes blows werent directly to the base of his skull like Lesnars were, so there's a good chance he couldve been DQd.


im not sure about it...it seems to me the next punches Mir was about to receive would have been to his face. thats the way i see it. 

And i think Hughes landed a couple of punches to the skull...and the final punches are insane.


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## toddums (Mar 4, 2007)

Bad call should have atleast gave a warning first.


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

If it was BJ Penn landing shots like that, 90% of you people would completely hate the stand-up.

Fact is, Brock Lesnar or not, it wasn't right. Mir turned his head into the shots, Lesnar landed maybe 2 blows to the back of the head, the fact that he wasn't warned was COMPLETE bs. Instead it was an INSTANT point deduction and they stood them up.

Hate on Lesnar all you want, I don't care, fact is the guy kind of got shafted in that particular position, Mir was going out, period, but that was a slick sub by Mir.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

When I was watching it, I thought he was going in to call the fight. Then he talked to Mir after whatever he was doing and called a timeout and gave a point deduction.


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

On the replay I see a hammer fist or two to the area of the back of Mir's head (kind of hard to tell with the camera angle) and a somewhat glancing blow to the back of Mir's head, kind of like the hit GSP took from Serra, and a couple more hammer fists to the back of the head. I think the glancing blow is when Steve started to move in. 

And I didn't see Mir turning into anything, looked like he was already curled in that position looking for a sweep, and Brock started throwing hammer fists anywhere they would land.


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## MKO* (Feb 3, 2008)

It was Mir who turned over, it should have been a warning.


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

Yep, whatever you want to believe, it still SHOULD have been a warning, most fighters would even get two...not an instant point deduction and stand-up.


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

"Hey, you just punched him 3, possible more, times in the back of the head in a row! You better stop that!"


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## ultra (Mar 4, 2007)

It was a good call and this is why:

Brock isn't some light weight panty-waist, hammer fists from that dude to the back of the head could be lethal, it's no joke. Stoppages like this are not unheard of in the heavy weight division, just go back one PPV to UFC 80 and you'll see the Ganzaga fight was stopped for the same reason and a point taken away there, too.

The eyes of the world were on this fight. The Nevada Athletic Commision already didn't like the idea of this circus freak show. Brock had no business being in the UFC because he had no discipline at all. We was just flailing wildly with no regard to where his fists were landing.

If Mir had been injured by an illegal blow, the NAC would have had Mazzagatti's nuts in a vice and the whole thing would have blown up in Dana White's face. Therefore, this fight was officiated "by the book".

Don't blame the ref for enforcing the rules, blame the fighter for breaking them.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

ultra said:


> It was a good call and this is why:
> 
> Brock isn't some light weight panty-waist, hammer fists from that dude to the back of the head could be lethal, it's no joke. Stoppages like this are not unheard of in the heavy weight division, just go back one PPV to UFC 80 and you'll see the Ganzaga fight was stopped for the same reason and a point taken away there, too.
> 
> ...


He never once hit to the back of the head untill Mir started rolling and pointed the back of his head toward's Brock.


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## ultra (Mar 4, 2007)

milkkid291 said:


> He never once hit to the back of the head untill Mir started rolling and pointed the back of his head toward's Brock.


And you miss the point... IT DOESN'T MATTER IF MIR WAS ROLLING! HE STILL RECIEVED ILLEGAL BLOWS!

If a fighter accidently moves into my front kick and I nail him in the balls, the fight gets stopped. EVEN IF IT WAS AN ACCIDENT THE FIGHT STILL GETS STOPPED. Brock Lesnar hammerfisting you in the back of the head can kill you. Last I checked, getting nailed in the junk won't kill you...

You people need to drop this "but it was an accident" shit. It doesn't matter. BTW, how the hell do you hit a guy on the back of the head THREE TIMES with hammer fists on accident?

Now then....

Your boy lost, get over it.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

Actually it was 2 times and Lesnar is not my boy. Name one fight where 2 punches to the back of the head stopped the fight for a timeout and the fighter got a point deduction?


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## Pr0d1gy (Sep 25, 2006)

ultra said:


> And you miss the point... IT DOESN'T MATTER IF MIR WAS ROLLING! HE STILL RECIEVED ILLEGAL BLOWS!
> 
> If a fighter accidently moves into my front kick and I nail him in the balls, the fight gets stopped. EVEN IF IT WAS AN ACCIDENT THE FIGHT STILL GETS STOPPED. Brock Lesnar hammerfisting you in the back of the head can kill you. Last I checked, getting nailed in the junk won't kill you...
> 
> ...


Your apparent inability to make your point without being inflamatory reminds me a lot of the quality posters you find at a place like, say, Shitdogg.


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## ultra (Mar 4, 2007)

milkkid291 said:


> Name one fight where 2 punches to the back of the head stopped the fight for a timeout and the fighter got a point deduction?


UFC 80, Gonzaga fight.


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## ultra (Mar 4, 2007)

Pr0d1gy said:


> Your apparent inability to make your point without being inflamatory reminds me a lot of the quality posters you find at a place like, say, Shitdogg.


I have a very low tolerance for ignorance, sorry. The point is, I'm right, and the whiners are wrong. I don't think the rules say I need to be all nice about it...


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

ultra said:


> I have a very low tolerance for ignorance, sorry. The point is, I'm right, and the whiners are wrong. I don't think the rules say I need to be all nice about it...


I'm not whining, but you obviously did not watch the replay. Lesnar hit Mir in the back of the head 2 times due to Mir rolling over. If Lesnar was more experienced, he would've stopped punching and go for the side of the head.

Oh, by the way, UFC 80, the fight wasn't stopped. Werdum, near the end of the fight, was warned not to knee to the head. He was verbally warned 2 times and there was no stoppage/timeout or a poit deduction, just 2 verbal warnings.

Before claiming you are right, maybe you should research the stuff you claim.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

http://www.myvideofight.com/video/ufc/ufc-80-gabriel-gonzaga-vs-fabricio-werdum/index-2.html

GG vs. Werdum for ya ultra.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

milkkid291 is right, that point reduction was ridiculous.


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## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

Absolutely horrible refereeing. Mazagatti needs to be fired. I can't even count the number of times I hear "watch the back of the head" in a fight with nothing being done about it. I've heard McCarthy warn fighter two or three times in a row before! Brock landed one shot to the back of the head and then had one more hammer fist that grazed Mir, but on the second one Mir was turning his head away from Brock and Mazagatti was already moving in to break it up. 

To everyone that says "they we so concerned about safety" then why didn't the same referee stop the fight immediatele once Brock tapped? Brock tapped twice right in front of Mazzagatti's face and Mazagatti stood there for almost two full seconds and didn't stop it until Brock tapped for the third time! Concerned for safety my ass!!!

I can hesitantly agree with standing them up (though punches to the back of the head happen all the time and fighters are never ever stood up, EVER!) but I have never seen a point deduction with no warning and a timeout in that situation, which once again, happens all the time!

Horrible call. I hope I never see Steve Mazagatti's face in a UFC cage ever again.


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## burton_o6 (Oct 30, 2007)

The restart and point deduction was bull shit..I'm beating a dead horse by saying there should have been a warning(or two), but it's true. I thought Lesnar did a great job(other than that retarded "step in" at the end. And yes i think he could beat big tim. Other than that, I'll rep everyone that had Lesnars back tomorrow, I know alot of people didn't like him for his inexperience and pro wrestling, so it's good to see people giving him credit. And sorry for sounding like a moron, still a little drunk.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

The restart probably wasn't bullshit, the point deduction was too far though.


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## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

I think that either Mazzagatti or the NAC doesn't like Lesnar. The call was BS and anyone that has seen the UFC long enough knows that it is really rare to stop the fight, call a timeout and deduct one point for two shots to the back of the head, mostly provoked by Mir. Buy hey, home team usually gets the refs help. Why was the UFC going to be any different than the NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL... ?


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## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

valrond said:


> I think that either Mazzagatti or the NAC doesn't like Lesnar. The call was BS and anyone that has seen the UFC long enough knows that it is really rare to stop the fight, call a timeout and deduct one point for two shots to the back of the head, mostly provoked by Mir. Buy hey, home team usually gets the refs help. Why was the UFC going to be any different than the NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL... ?


Really rare? Try never happens!

Hasn't Brock signed a contract with the UFC? Isn't he supposed to be part of the home team too?


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## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

SonofJor-El said:


> Really rare? Try never happens!
> 
> Hasn't Brock signed a contract with the UFC? Isn't he supposed to be part of the home team too?



Well, Mir is from Vegas, and fight was held there. It's like the Lakers playing in LA, the Celtics in Boston. 

I said rare because I haven't seen every UFC, I'm on it, but it'll take some time. But, in the 30 UFCs I've seen, no calls like this one.


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## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

valrond said:


> Well, Mir is from Vegas, and fight was held there. It's like the Lakers playing in LA, the Celtics in Boston.
> 
> I said rare because I haven't seen every UFC, I'm on it, but it'll take some time. But, in the 30 UFCs I've seen, no calls like this one.


I wasn't aware Mir was from Vegas. Anyway, wasn't Lesnar the betting favorite? Somebody made a LOT of money off of Mir last night. Check Steve Mazagatti's bank account.


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## Gudster (Aug 4, 2007)

There should have been a few warnings before standing them up IMO. Brock wasn't targeting the back of the head, Frank was turning away. 

I am a huge Mir fan but he was in deep trouble there. 

I'm sort of won over by Brock now. He got caught but he was impressive up until then. The power and intensity he showed alone was great to watch.

Few more fights and this guy is a contender.


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## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

the fight getting stood up was bs but you could see the submission coming from a mile away. lesnar didn't have the experience to realize what mir was going for even tho it was real obvious when he grabbed the ankle and shifted his hips over.


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## Kameleon (Apr 20, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> Why in the world was that fight stood up when Lesnar was moments away from finishing Mir? Because Mir turns away and takes a shot in the back of the head?
> 
> Great job by Mir to grab that knee, but that call was BS IMO



*Lesnar came in aggressive and landed some shots to the back of the head, it was a good call but he should have tried for the takedown again.*


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## Oil (Nov 13, 2006)

Mazzagatti reffing skills need to be reviewed again. This isn't the first time his reffing has been called into question. I can think of many more times were it has been just as controversial. 


After watching the fight again "Yes" there were "Two" shots to the back of the head. on both occasions Mir turned his head and exposed the back of his head. Both times after this happened Lesnar changed his ground and pound punches so that they were not hitting him in the back of the head. Mazzagatti "Should" have issued a warning and nothing else based off that information. 

What I don't know is what was said between Frank Mir and Mazzagatti. The only reasoning I can come to is that Mazzagatti asked Mir if he was ok, then Mir decided to "fake " _or not_ that he was really hurt by those two small shots to the back of the head. This became evident, to me at least, by Mir grabbing his head and closing his eyes while leaning back like he was about to black out. This was when Mazzagatti called the time and issued the point deduction. 


In my opinion it's had to say what really caused the point deduction/time out/stand up; Mazzagatti's incompetence and/or Mir's acting ability. Again, this is my opinion and I know that strikes to the back of the head are illegal BUT I would have to say that other fighters have been let off the hook with worse AND by Mazzagatti himself....which might go towards the belief that he could ref his way out of a paper bag. 

Side Note: After watching it a second time I finally took note as to the emphasis to which Steve puts on his opening words of "We _WILL_ have a clean fair fight."


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## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

Oil said:


> Mazzagatti reffing skills need to be reviewed again. This isn't the first time his reffing has been called into question. I can think of many more times were it has been just as controversial.
> 
> 
> After watching the fight again "Yes" there were "Two" shots to the back of the head. on both occasions Mir turned his head and exposed the back of his head. Both times after this happened Lesnar changed his ground and pound punches so that they were not hitting him in the back of the head. Mazzagatti "Should" have issued a warning and nothing else based off that information.
> ...


mazzagatti asks him if the shots were hitting the back of his head and mir says yes.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

mjbish23 said:


> mazzagatti asks him if the shots were hitting the back of his head and mir says yes.


lol...how could he have said 'no'?


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## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

I have to say, that I agree with the OP. I was impressed with Mir's kneebar, but I was really shocked when the ref stood them up. I'm thinking AT LEAST give him a warning, because deducting a point RIGHT AWAY really hurt Brock. Brock was about ready to pound out Mir, Mir turned his head, copped a punch, and Mazzagatti steps in. Considering the way the UFC scores fights (NEVER giving out 10-8 rounds), point deductions should be for blatant breaches of rules or repeated incidents, not an accidental shot to the back of the head.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Biowza said:


> I have to say, that I agree with the OP. I was impressed with Mir's kneebar, but I was really shocked when the ref stood them up. I'm thinking AT LEAST give him a warning, because deducting a point RIGHT AWAY really hurt Brock. Brock was about ready to pound out Mir, Mir turned his head, copped a punch, and Mazzagatti steps in. Considering the way the UFC scores fights (NEVER giving out 10-8 rounds), point deductions should be for blatant breaches of rules or repeated incidents, not an accidental shot to the back of the head.


yeah there really is no feasible way anyone can say that was a normal UFC call and that the actions warranted a point off, timeout (gives Mir a chance to catch his wind), a standup (generally better for Mir).

but overall, aside from my sig bet lost, in retrospect, i'm glad he lost, he'll be better than ever next time....and I really can see him being champion someday...Nobody moves like Brock


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## BrAinDeaD (Oct 15, 2006)

I'm glad Lesnar lost as well. No disrespect to the guy but I think this is better for him. Plus if he won he would have probably been thrown more tough competition, and it's really too soon for him. The guy needs to build experience and comfort. A loss now will show him his flaws and what he needs to improve on. Better now than later.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

BrAinDeaD said:


> I'm glad Lesnar lost as well. No disrespect to the guy but I think this is better for him. Plus if he won he would have probably been thrown more tough competition, and it's really too soon for him. The guy needs to build experience and comfort. A loss now will show him his flaws and what he needs to improve on. Better now than later.


exactly...he needs alot of bjj experience...like months of 4 hours/day.....he won't be amazing, but he'll hopefully become more more fluid on the ground and not so awkward...but damn.....

Lesnar + a solid understating of submissions and control = a VERY dangerous man


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## LivingDedMan (May 10, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> I think the ref jumped in to stop the fight, realised his mistake and called a timeout for strikes to the back of the head to cover his mistake. Thats honestly what I saw happening.



Hmm, interesting theory, but I'm not sure about it, although I actually thought he was stopping the fight myself. 

Taking a point was definitely uncalled for. A warning would've been plenty.


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## Ramzee (May 23, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> I think the ref jumped in to stop the fight, realised his mistake and called a timeout for strikes to the back of the head to cover his mistake. Thats honestly what I saw happening.


This is exactly what I saw aswell and I am pretty sure this is what happened. But still I am very happy mir won because Brock was talking so much


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## Zemelya (Sep 23, 2007)

SonofJor-El said:


> Absolutely horrible refereeing. Mazagatti needs to be fired. I can't even count the number of times I hear "watch the back of the head" in a fight with nothing being done about it. I've heard McCarthy warn fighter two or three times in a row before! Brock landed one shot to the back of the head and then had one more hammer fist that grazed Mir, but on the second one Mir was turning his head away from Brock and Mazagatti was already moving in to break it up.
> 
> To everyone that says "they we so concerned about safety" then why didn't the same referee stop the fight immediatele once Brock tapped? Brock tapped twice right in front of Mazzagatti's face and Mazagatti stood there for almost two full seconds and didn't stop it until Brock tapped for the third time! Concerned for safety my ass!!!
> 
> ...


I agree that usually it's a warning.
But in this case there was no time for warning, Mir was preparing to go to sleep most likely from those blows - they looked very powerful in the replay, comparing to previous fight where dude got just the warning cause his blows to the back of the head wheren't doing much.
It's just a thought, only Mazzagatti knows what happened and he is experienced ref afterall


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## Chris32 (Sep 22, 2006)

I thought both fighters looked good. Brock needs more experience but his first showing in the UFC after ONE pro fight was great imo. Plus his response after the fight was classy as well. I thought he handled himself well...


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## MarijuanaSmoker (Jan 2, 2008)

said this before and i will say it again, if anything the stand up helped lesnar, no, he was not close to finishing the fight with them hammer shots, the only good shot (on the ground) was the elbow when he was in mirs guard, do I think that the refs call was a good one? no, do I think it helped mir? no i think it made it worse for mire, lesnar shouldve stayed stand, and by watching lesnars ground work, his ground work is his kryptonite


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## jb88ci (Oct 17, 2006)

Aaronyman said:


> Why in the world was that fight stood up when Lesnar was moments away from finishing Mir? Because Mir turns away and takes a shot in the back of the head?
> 
> Great job by Mir to grab that knee, but that call was BS IMO


Just another example of the huge inconsistency in officiating in the UFC. I've seen dozens of fights where there was incidental hit to the back of the head, like this (Mir turned, it's like turning your back just before you get checked in hockey) or even intentional hits where the ref warns them while the fight is in progress.

Brock got the celebrity point deduction, nothing else.


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## simon110507 (Feb 3, 2008)

BrAinDeaD said:


> I'm glad Lesnar lost as well. No disrespect to the guy but I think this is better for him. Plus if he won he would have probably been thrown more tough competition, and it's really too soon for him. The guy needs to build experience and comfort. A loss now will show him his flaws and what he needs to improve on. Better now than later.


agreed. if he gets too big competion he'll give up.


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## jeremy202 (Feb 3, 2008)

simon110507 said:


> agreed. if he gets too big competion he'll give up.


Lesnar give up? NO WAY.I expect lesnar to be HW champ some day.He truly is as good as he says he is


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## BrFighter07 (Jun 16, 2007)

it was like 3 hits and brock just kept going it was a good call brock knew you couldnt hit in the back of the head but yea i thought mir was finished too


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## simon110507 (Feb 3, 2008)

jeremy202 said:


> Lesnar give up? NO WAY.I expect lesnar to be HW champ some day.He truly is as good as he says he is


i see lesnar giving up, maybe not now, but later he will. he was once a heavyweight champ in the wwe and HE GAVE UP, he was at the top of his career, and he LEFT. god knows what he can do!


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

> he was once a heavyweight champ in the wwe and HE GAVE UP, he was at the top of his career, and he LEFT.


Brock doesn't do the hectic traveling he did during his WWE days. Here, he can work at his own pace.


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## norcalballa23 (Dec 29, 2007)

simon110507 said:


> i see lesnar giving up, maybe not now, but later he will. he was once a heavyweight champ in the wwe and HE GAVE UP, he was at the top of his career, and he LEFT. god knows what he can do!


Wrong!!!! im a huge fan of brock and have watched him since the WWE. he left to pursue his dream of playing in the nfl. he didnt make it due to getting into a fight for a hard hit on a QB at practice. Fact is brock was dominating mir the whole fight up until the knee bar. HE WILL BE BACK!


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## hollando (Apr 11, 2007)

nah man

i usually agree with what you think....but you have been so off base with anything and everything brock lesnar

your boy lost

he hit mir in the back of the head

and got taken out with a basic submission


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

hollando said:


> nah man
> 
> i usually agree with what you think....but you have been so off base with anything and everything brock lesnar
> 
> ...


none of the shots hit directly on the back of the head

the ones that were close were from mir curling that way

the ufc is usually MUCH MUCH more lenienent with shots to the back of the head...ie. gsp vs. hughes 3 (same ref)

they always give a verbal warning, usually 2, (sometimes 3 in the case of gsp vs. hughes 3) before taking action....RARELY do they ever stop the fight, like they did on tuf5 with miller and lauzon (due to a flush elbow to the back of the head)

deducting a point and giving mir a timeout becuz he ate 1 maybe 1 and a 1/2 hammerfists from him turtling is REALLY inconsistent with other UFC fights


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

hollando said:


> your boy lost
> 
> and got taken out with a basic submission


this has nothing to do with the thread


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Mot to bag on the guy but man how many times dose Mazzagatti have make major mistakes before they can him? The guy is as inconsistent as the wind with his refereeing. I cant even count all the bad calls the guy has made and yes I know its not a easy job but he's just not a good ref IMO. Just about every time something questionable happens he's the one who was reffing the fight WEC or UFC for that matter.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I watched the fight a couple times today and the more I see it the more I think it was a good call. I mean he was hitting him in the back of the head with the first few punches he threw and then those hammerfists as well.

It doesn't matter if he turtled up since that isn't a part of the rule the rule says no hitting in the back of the head.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> I watched the fight a couple times today and the more I see it the more I think it was a good call. I mean he was hitting him in the back of the head with the first few punches he threw and then those hammerfists as well.
> 
> It doesn't matter if he turtled up since that isn't a part of the rule the rule says no hitting in the back of the head.


i still think he should have given a warning first ...and after rewatching it, zero of the hammerfists landed on the back of the head, they hit just behind the ear

then he asks frank "were they hitting you on the back of the head?"...

omfg....wtf was he gonna say "no, please continue letting him pound the piss out of me"


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Eh, I thought it was a questionable call, but I don't think it affected the outcome of the fight in any significant way. Mir was taking some shots but he was never close to being finished or rocked really


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I also wouldn't say he was pounding the piss out of Mir. I mean the punches weren't accurate and a lot of them missed. The whole time they were on the ground Lesnar was hitting all over the place and defiantly landing on the back of the head.

I do think he deserved a warning but I have to be honest I think that this is a better way to handle the situation than most refs who just let fighters punch the crap out of the back of a guys head and keep warning and doing nothing.


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

The call was not questionable, it was out of line. And you don't think Mir was rocked? He was in trouble, anyone watching that fight objectively could see he was in trouble.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> I watched the fight a couple times today and the more I see it the more I think it was a good call. I mean he was hitting him in the back of the head with the first few punches he threw and then those hammerfists as well.
> 
> It doesn't matter if he turtled up since that isn't a part of the rule the rule says no hitting in the back of the head.


Yes it dose, if your intent is to hit someone with a illegal blow, by all means take the point but if you have some guy in trouble and he turns his head to avoid a strike its incidental contact IMO. I cant see how anyone can justify the time out period, I re-watched it too and most the shots he took where on the side of the head not the back of his head. 
Look close the shot that hurt him was in the side if the face and thats completely legal. 

How it can be a "good call" when its unprecedented is beyond me, a good call would have been a warning. Like I said Ive seen a lot of fights and some with blatant strikes to the BACK not side of the head where the SAME ref said nothing at all and more still where he just warned fighters, I counted 2 strikes that where illegal hammerfists and one shot that was also illegal but not in succession and nothing that remotely warranted a stand up much less a time out.


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

1) I have never seen a ref deduct a point for an initial accidental blow to the back of the head. They usually give tons of warning before they give a point deduction. Mir curled up and that's why Lesnar landed those shots.

2) When has a fighter ever called to the ref about this? I personally thought Mir was calling the ref for help and the fight was going to end. I found it really odd that Mir was so dazed yet decided to start the fight right back before even recovering. Why not rest up if you were really hurt?

I guess either Lesnar has really vicious hammerfists or that was some bad judgment call.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Lesnar hitting Mir in the back of the dome:


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

The rule has nothing to do with intent it says don't hit in the back of the head. I'm not saying he should've lost a point but I think him standing them up was a fair call.

Lesnar's biggest problem is he was so wild with those punches that he was hitting everywhere including the back of the head. He hit him in the back of the head I don't think Lesnar should've lost a point but this is defiantly better than when a fighter wins a fight by teeing off on the back of a guys head like Arlovski vs Pe de Pano.

Also I didn't say he wasn't hurt I said Lesnar wasn't pounding the piss out of him.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

nice gif Wukkadb


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## Robopencil (Feb 7, 2007)

cplmac said:


> The call was not questionable, it was out of line. And you don't think Mir was rocked? He was in trouble, anyone watching that fight objectively could see he was in trouble.


When I was watching the fight live, I thought Mir was in big trouble. I watched the fight again, knowing what would happen. And I was actually surprised too notice that Mir was covering up quite well. I'll probably end up watching the fight again as I own the PPV till it stops airing.


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## ToeZup (Jan 7, 2008)

I think Brock should have been warned before a point was taken away but either way the fight had to be stopped for blows to the back of the head. There is no arguing that. So in the end even if Mir was hurt, Lesnar f'ed up. Mir won the fight fair and square and that's pretty much it. Congratulations to Mir for his victory. After all no matter what Brock hit him with, Mir wasn't the one tapping. Just my $0.02

Great gif btw wukkadb. +rep


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

I'm not trying to take anything away from Mir, he won the fight with an excellent sub. I just think that opportunity might not have come around if the ref didn't make a terrible call. Either way this was a fun fight to watch.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Rated said:


> 1) I have never seen a ref deduct a point for an initial accidental blow to the back of the head. They usually give tons of warning before they give a point deduction. Mir curled up and that's why Lesnar landed those shots.
> 
> 2) When has a fighter ever called to the ref about this? I personally thought Mir was calling the ref for help and the fight was going to end. I found it really odd that Mir was so dazed yet decided to start the fight right back before even recovering. Why not rest up if you were really hurt?
> 
> I guess either Lesnar has really vicious hammerfists or that was some bad judgment call.


Something has to be said about intelligently defending yourself as well, you cant just go fetal.

What I saw was, Mir being hit was legal strikes and one of them hurt him at that point he went into the fetal position and rolled to his side. Brock got excited and started swinging wildly. At the same time the ref started to move in to possibly stop the fight, in that same time frame Brock landed a few blows to the side of Mir's head and one to the back of his head because Mir had rolled away from the punches.

My point here is that at that point you could make a case that Mir had stopped defending himself prior to the successive illegal blows and the fight should be stopped regardless of weather Mir was just stunned or not and I think the ref was moving in to do just that when he saw a few illegal strikes, the real question was did he move in to stop the fight then change his mind? I think he did and I think all of his decisions after that point where questionable.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

The fact of the matter is that Mir got hit in the back of the head, and that's not allowed. Brock was wild and overzelous, and would have continued to hit the back of the head in a wild fashion. You just can't have that. 

We saw the best Brock had. Good takedowns, but sloppy, inaccurate striking from the top. Hopefully that will improve next time we see him.

I just want to repost something if i may.



Flak said:


> I'm, still struggling with people that are picking Lesnar to win. How can anyone say that? Yes he was a good wrestler 8-10 years ago, but this isn't wrestling. We have zero to go on in terms of MMA, and being a big dude just isn't a good enough reason as far as im concerned.
> 
> Yeah good wrestlers often make good MMA fighters, but none of them fight people the likes of Mir on thier second outing. If not for his name, he woulsdnt get this fight until he was 5-0 or 6-1. I think an extremely green wrestler is going to face a seasoned MMA and BJJ vet and get outclassed.


Exactly what happend. Brock looked every bit the green wrestler who was out of place on the ground, and Mir being the experienced BJJ guy got the sub.


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## jeremy202 (Feb 3, 2008)

ref was doing mir favors.You know, he didnt want a "celebrity" to win.He wanted to give mir every chance possible to beat brock, and deprive brock of every opportunity to finish off mir.Thats how i see it.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

I guess it wasn't exactly "fetal" but I wouldn't call it defending himself either.


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## geoff0011 (May 27, 2007)

I've watched this match over and over again, because I just can't find a justifiable reason for Mazagatti to stand the fight up and take the point. Every other shot that could have been considered hits to the back of the head, were glancing blows, more so to the side of the head. There was ONE clear shot to the back of the head, which SHOULD have been only a warning due to the fact the punch was being thrown, and Mir turned his head into it. 

I don't know how many other matches I've seen, especially with Big Jon present, where the whole match he is screaming watch the back of the head, but never intervenes. I'm not going to say Brock still wouldn't have lost that fight, but he was in a great position to possibly finish, and I still feel he was screwed out of that position. 

I'm excited to see Brock again, because he was just as explosive and dominate against Mir, a formidable opponent, as he was against Brock's first and more questionable opponent.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Flak said:


> The fact of the matter is that Mir got hit in the back of the head, and that's not allowed. Brock was wild and overzelous, and would have continued to hit the back of the head in a wild fashion. You just can't have that.
> 
> We saw the best Brock had. Good takedowns, but sloppy, inaccurate striking from the top. Hopefully that will improve next time we see him.
> 
> ...


completely wrong analysis

how can you say his wrestling looked green when he took an 'experienced mma and bjj fighter' down at will....it wasn't even close....

top positioning in wrestling is totally different than it is in mma obviously, and he looked awkward posturing up to land bombs.....to say his wrestling looked green was a bad prediction and a bab analyis of the fight


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## valvetronix (Feb 3, 2008)

“I didn’t expect his shot to be as fast as it was,” said Mir, who was taken down, knocked down standing, and almost stopped by Lesnar before turning the tables with a fight ending kneebar. “When he changed levels and exploded on me, I thought I could kick him and get my foot down on him, but that was hopeless.”
-------------------------------------

“I was dominating the fight,” he admitted. “We knew what he was gonna do and I must have worked on getting out of that leg lock a thousand times. But that’s the beauty of this sport. I could see the lights getting dimmer and dimmer and so maybe I got a little overzealous and I thought I was gonna get out, but he held on for dear life.”




Its great to see both guys can give each other props


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## MarijuanaSmoker (Jan 2, 2008)

jeremy202 said:


> ref was doing mir favors.You know, he didnt want a "celebrity" to win.He wanted to give mir every chance possible to beat brock, and deprive brock of every opportunity to finish off mir.Thats how i see it.


how so? In my opinion he did brock the favour, brock belonged standing up, he shouldve never went for the take down in the first place

as for mir not covering up, he was protecting his face and the shots he recieved did little damage

i did find it stupid of the ref to stand it up, but all in all it helped lesnar, mirs kicks were useless.


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## valvetronix (Feb 3, 2008)

MarijuanaSmoker said:


> how so? In my opinion he did brock the favour, brock belonged standing up, he shouldve never went for the take down in the first place
> 
> as for mir not covering up, he was protecting his face and the shots he recieved did little damage
> 
> i did find it stupid of the ref to stand it up, but all in all it helped lesnar, mirs kicks were useless.


Mir has already said (With the cuts on his face) that Lesnar's GnP was strong. :dunno:


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> completely wrong analysis
> 
> how can you say his wrestling looked green when he took an 'experienced mma and bjj fighter' down at will....it wasn't even close....
> 
> top positioning in wrestling is totally different than it is in mma obviously, and he looked awkward posturing up to land bombs.....to say his wrestling looked green was a bad prediction and a bab analyis of the fight


I believe he means a skilled wrestler who is green in an MMA sense.


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## zarny (Mar 4, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> The guy is reiging bombs on Mir, Mir turns his head, eats one or two, and NO WARNING, POINT DEDUCTION, STANDUP...losing his dominant position where he was really putting it to Mir....


I too was a little suprised there was no warning; however I think the reason is Brock didn't try to not hit him in the back of his head.

Brock threw a straight punch at the back of Mir's head without trying to loop around. It looked like a blatant, intentional foul. 

I think that is the reason the point was taken away and the fight stood up.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

MarijuanaSmoker said:


> how so? In my opinion he did brock the favour, brock belonged standing up, he shouldve never went for the take down in the first place
> 
> as for mir not covering up, he was protecting his face and the shots he recieved did little damage
> 
> i did find it stupid of the ref to stand it up, but all in all it helped lesnar, mirs kicks were useless.


The fact of the matter is that Brock threw punches that hit the base of the skull. It doesnt matter if they hurt Mir or not, but the potential for serious injury is there had the Ref let that kind of crap go on.

I reviewed the tape in slo-mo, frame by frame... Brock is just going berserk not caring where the punches landed... simply not professional.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

zarny said:


> I too was a little suprised there was no warning; however I think the reason is Brock didn't try to not hit him in the back of his head.
> 
> Brock threw a straight punch at the back of Mir's head without trying to loop around. It looked like a blatant, intentional foul.
> 
> I think that is the reason the point was taken away and the fight stood up.


I dont know if Brock wanted to intentionally injure Mir... but the tape clearly shows Brock posturing up and LOOKING STRAIGHT DOWN at Mir. 

IMHO, its just Brocks inexperience that took over... he just went ape sh1t and didnt care how punches were landing.
Was that 'accidental'? hell no. 
But I dont think it was Brock's intent to hit him there.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

attention said:


> The fact of the matter is that Brock threw punches that hit the base of the skull. It doesnt matter if they hurt Mir or not, but the potential for serious injury is there had the Ref let that kind of crap go on.
> 
> I reviewed the tape in slo-mo, frame by frame... Brock is just going berserk not caring where the punches landed... simply not professional.


As did I and I say your smoking crack if you think more than the one strike hit the bace of the skull.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

look at the gif that Wukkadb put out 2 punches hit the back and 1 hit the side and it was close to the back.


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## jeremy202 (Feb 3, 2008)

MarijuanaSmoker said:


> how so? In my opinion he did brock the favour, brock belonged standing up, he shouldve never went for the take down in the first place
> 
> as for mir not covering up, he was protecting his face and the shots he recieved did little damage
> 
> i did find it stupid of the ref to stand it up, but all in all it helped lesnar, mirs kicks were useless.


lol, brock the favor? no way.Brock was raining down hard punches on mir, mir was the one in trouble.Mir was about to get knocked out, then ref helped him out.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> look at the gif that Wukkadb put out 2 punches hit the back and 1 hit the side and it was close to the back.


umm no not really, only one hit the back of his head the others hit the side of his head and slid/glanced backwards the initial point of contact was not the back of the head.


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## LockNhold (Feb 3, 2008)

Its a rule just like groin kicks, eye gouging, kicking the head of a grounded opponent, etc... the fighters are separated to give recovery time.

Whether or not a point was taken can possibly be debated but thats in the refs jurisdiction and in the end points were irrelevant to the outcome. Brock ended the fight by tapping.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

slapshot said:


> umm no not really, only one hit the back of his head the others hit the side of his head and slid/glanced backwards the initial point of contact was not the back of the head.


http://www.mmaforum.com/458939-post251.html

they are not even on the side of the head, they're closer to his neck than his head

its hard to tell from the top perspective, but the ref was RIGHT there

Those shots are either on his NECK or on the base of the skull... hell you can see Mir's EAR ... which means it aint the side of the head... thats for sure


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

attention said:


> http://www.mmaforum.com/458939-post251.html
> 
> they are not even on the side of the head, they're closer to his neck than his head
> 
> ...


The pictures you posted dont show anything but your opinion, you actually cant see where the punches land from them:confused03: Anyway im done debating, fights over and from what Ive seen my opinion wont change unless some new video sheds a different light on it.


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

After rewatching it, I personally see at least 3 shots to the back of the head, if they fully connected I don't know, the camera angle was bad. after the 3rd one is when I think Steve starts to move in to stop it. And between the time between him moving in and stopping it, Lesnar looked to land 2 more hammer fists tothe back of his head in that time.

Did Mir turtle up in response to the punches? Yes and no. Mir was _already_ in that "turtled" position looking to sweep Lesnar. And while doing so in that position Lesanr just started landing blows where ever he could to Mir in that position. 

This reminds me of something I head Big John say in a radio interview: 

_"A Judge holds a fighter's livelihood in their hands. Because their decisions if they're not right, they are taking money out of that fighters pokets. A referee holds a fighters life in his hands, cause if he doesn't understand what is going on, he can get that fighter hurt."_

This isn't like if Tim was in that side control position he likes on their left side and he is feeding rights to their face or side of the head, and then in response the guy turns his head. 

Was it a bad call? It was definitely odd. But this is what got me thinking of that Big John quote. Perhaps he should have just put them back in the same position on the ground.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

slapshot said:


> The pictures you posted dont show anything but your opinion, you actually cant see where the punches land from them:confused03:


OMG! can you see Mirs EAR?
is that NOT his ear?

how can that shot be legal when clearly his FIST is right below Mirs EAR!

Holy moly, I cant believe the denial going on here.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

slapshot said:


> The pictures you posted dont show anything but your opinion, you actually cant see where the punches land from them:confused03: Anyway im done debating, fights over and from what Ive seen my opinion wont change unless some new video sheds a different light on it.


There is NOTHING to debate.
The shots are UNDENIABLE.

There is no opinion as to where on Mirs body those fists landed.

You wanted me to go back and watch, I posted the pics, you tell me the video LIES !?!?

at least admit there was more than ONE shot that landed illegal, like you stated earlier.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

attention said:


> OMG! can you see Mirs EAR?
> is that NOT his ear?
> 
> how can that shot be legal when clearly his FIST is right below Mirs EAR!
> ...


Sry but theres no way to get any depth perception looking down from the top, its not denial its just a bad angel and with no motion you lose a lot of the ability to judge it.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> Lesnar hitting Mir in the back of the dome:


Bump.....thats the back of the head


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

slapshot said:


> Sry but theres no way to get any depth perception looking down from the top, its not denial its just a bad angel and with no motion you lose a lot of the ability to judge it.


... no motion, lost judgement... heh, righto 
cause when the video is moving, the shots land in a DIFFERENT PLACE

LOL. 
Yeah, bad angle for sure... cant see anything... 
In fact, those two fighters could be *anybody*... that might not even be Brock... I think thats actually Sherk vs Franca... 
I get you now.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

wukkadb said:


> Bump.....thats the back of the head


And those were just the last few punches... there were more to the back of the head that lead up to the stoppage... prior to the 3 punches that landed in the face.

I dont know what it is about this bout that people are in such denial about ???


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## LockNhold (Feb 3, 2008)

Punches to the back of the head clearly landed and are illegal. There is no debate.


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## burton_o6 (Oct 30, 2007)

Nobody is saying that they are legal..There should have been a warning.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

burton_o6 said:


> Nobody is saying that they are legal..There should have been a warning.


warnings are for when its accidental...
...warning that those blows are hitting illegal places accidentally.

Brock is in dominant position, posturing up, looking straight at him for a place to hit...

He might not have wanted to intentionally injure him, but they were blows sent multiple times to a illegal location that more experience heavy weight mma figher KNOW not to do.

A fighter cannot simply lose control and blame whatever happens as being an accident.... and seeing how high profile this bout was... I can see them holding this fight up to a higher standard.


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## LockNhold (Feb 3, 2008)

He had to make sure Frank had enough recovery time. The ref did give Brock a warning.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

attention said:


> ... no motion, lost judgement... heh, righto
> cause when the video is moving, the shots land in a DIFFERENT PLACE
> 
> LOL.
> ...


That would explain your opinion about how many strikes there where to the back of the head, like I said I only see one clear strike the other started at the back of his jaw or side of his neck that area anyway.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

slapshot said:


> That would explain your opinion about how many strikes there where to the back of the head, like I said I only see one clear strike the other started at the back of his jaw or neck.


and back of the neck is LEGAL in your book i suppose










notice ref location, notice ear, notice time index.

... oh right, its not video... so the picture lies...
the video would be different


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

slapshot said:


> That would explain your opinion about how many strikes there where to the back of the head, like I said I only see one clear strike the other started at the back of his jaw or side of his neck that area anyway.


You've inspired me to actually extract my HDD to get the 1080p video off and post the HD pictures instead of this low rez screen cap. 

Dont have time right now, but I will do it later and post em.

Geeze, apparently this is what its gotta take for those unbelievers.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

LOL, if you want to know my opinion its posted in this thread I have no reason to retype it. Anyway said i was done once already so Im just going to go watch the game.


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## mattandbenny (Aug 2, 2007)

It was very harsh, he hit him once on the back of the head, i can understand him standing them up and warning him, the the point taken off was ridiculous.

Brock Lesnar looked very good, and although he lost, he looked great.


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## All_In (Aug 23, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> http://www.mmatko.com/brock-lesnar-vs-frank-mir-fight-video-ufc-81/
> 
> wow I just realized that I was 100% right
> 
> ...


I didn't see a reason for it to be stood up either. But I mean at least the fight found its way back to a situation that looked similar, so I wouldn't say the _entire _result was a result of the stoppage.


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

I think Mir didn't fully realize what he was getting into either with that fight heh.


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## LockNhold (Feb 3, 2008)

I bet if Brock would have knocked out mir after the separation, the Brock fans wouldnt have made a big deal about it.

:dunno:


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## jeremy202 (Feb 3, 2008)

LockNhold said:


> I bet if Brock would have knocked out mir after the separation, the Brock fans wouldnt have made a big deal about it.
> 
> :dunno:


thats right, because brock deserved that win


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## LockNhold (Feb 3, 2008)

you cant legally win by delivering illegal blows. If he so much deserved it he would have won after that anyways. The ref stopping the fight didnt make brock lose. He lost by deciding to tap out.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

yeah this arguement got way out of hand....the thread was created to debate whether the standup was warranted, not whether it would have made a difference in the final outcome


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

LockNhold said:


> I bet if Brock would have knocked out mir after the separation, the Brock fans wouldnt have made a big deal about it.
> 
> :dunno:


You are right, it would not be a *big* deal but I or someone would have still mentioned it. If Mir went for a kneebar and Lesnar kicked Mir in the face and the ref gave Lesnar a point deduction but also stood them up, I would b1tch too.

I hate (semi)controversial wins. The only reason why a lot of people are bringing this up is because it looked like Mir was hurt and was allowed to regain his composure.

Of course, I still give props to Mir for surviving and winning with a nice kneebar. It was kind of dumb game planning on Lesnar's part as well - he should have kept it standing and then go for TDs if necessary.

On another note, I was kind of annoyed how Mir was the challenger. The dude was a former champion for Christ sake!


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Rated said:


> You are right, it would not be a *big* deal but I or someone would have still mentioned it. If Mir went for a kneebar and Lesnar kicked Mir in the face and the ref gave Lesnar a point deduction but also stood them up, I would b1tch too.
> 
> I hate (semi)controversial wins. The only reason why a lot of people are bringing this up is because it looked like Mir was hurt and was allowed to regain his composure.
> 
> ...


he should have backed off when he had Mir's legs standing above him instead of holding onto them....i was screaming "back off brock" at the tv....it's too dangerous for him

the TD's were good cuz he was ending up in side control or half guard, which aren't as dangerous as full guard


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## LockNhold (Feb 3, 2008)

Mir must have needed the time to recover. That would be the only reason to separate the two. I assume the punches to the back of the head knocked Mir a little loopy and he needed to regain his composure. (which he deserved due to the fact the blows were illegal IMHO)


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## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

My god attention, *PLEASE* learn how to use the "edit" function of the forum so you don't post double posts every time you want to say something. 

Anyway, you really have no way of knowing whether Brock intended those shots or not. If you want him to be guilty until proven innocent then thats your problem. But Brock showed me nothing that suggests that he is a dirty fighter. The shots were back of ear/neck/glancing shot to back of head etc, Mazzagatti should have at the very least warned Lesnar.


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## LockNhold (Feb 3, 2008)

Brock lost fair and square. even if the ref didnt stop the fight at all, Brock cant win by beating someone in the back of the head. He would have continued to do so if the ref didnt stop him. you just cant win due to illegal blows..


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

I'm still not sure where the argument is. Brock hit the back of the had, that is indisputable. Mazagatti, per the rules, did what he should have done....stand them up. Taking the point without warning was possibly extreme, but point or not, the fight would have been stood up, and Mir given a chance to recover from the wild and ILLEGAL blows.

They then went back to a similar position where Mir's jitz outclassed Lesnar's wrestling/GnP.

Simple really. 

Lesnar looked ok, just very inexperienced. I look forward to him learning from this and coming back strong against a more appropriate opponent (not an ex champ coming off an solid win).


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## norcalballa23 (Dec 29, 2007)

what happens if lesnar knows to look out for the knee bar? because mir tried armbars but what happend?


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## jeremy202 (Feb 3, 2008)

^Then lesnar will win.Lesnar outclasses mir in everything but BJJ


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

norcalballa23 said:


> what happens if lesnar knows to look out for the knee bar? because mir tried armbars but what happend?


Just because two armbars failed, doesn't mean they all would have. :dunno:

There are so many limb submissions, Mir was going to win that fight using any of them.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> Why in the world was that fight stood up when Lesnar was moments away from finishing Mir? Because Mir turns away and takes a shot in the back of the head?
> 
> Great job by Mir to grab that knee, but that call was BS IMO


He took several shots to the back of the head, and it's a fighter's job to ensure their strikes don't land somewhere illegal on their opponent. It is not the defending fighter's job to ensure they don't present their opponent with an illegal surface to strike, otherwise groin strikes would basically have to be legal.


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## Judoka (Feb 23, 2007)

I agree with the stoppage on the penalty but i think Lesnar should have got warned first but that is their decision not mine.

It takes a lot more then a year and a half to stop BJJ from working. Mir has trained BJJ for a long time.

I am not a great submission guy although i specialize in it i am still not really good but i saw that kneebar coming and Brock literally walked straight into it.

"^Then lesnar will win.Lesnar outclasses mir in everything but BJJ" - jeremy202

How?, BJJ is what beat him in the first place. Mir's striking is more technical but Lesnar is more powerful with his strikes.

His ground and pound needs improving.


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

I'm beginning to wonder how many people here actually watch MMA fights. For every time I see a ref break the action and deduct a point for strikes to the back of the head(the only time they break them is to give the deduction usually) I have seen dozens of verbal warnings as the action flows. When was the last time anyone here saw a fight where at some point the referee did not say "watch the back of the head" as the fight went on? Before the Mir/Lesnar fight that is. There is ALWAYS a verbal warning first, because the refs know a fighter most likely is caught up in the moment and merely needs a reminder to keep them focused. This should have been even more pronounced with a fighter who was not only making their UFC debut but only their second ever MMA fight. There were a couple of illegal blows to the back of the head, but NOTHING that was flagrant or intentional, in other words this was EXACTLY the kind of situation that would have been served well with a verbal warning/reminder. I give Mir credit for coming through with a nice sub, I give Mazzagatti credit for breaking with tradition and giving Mir a better opportunity to do so.


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## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

cplmac said:


> I'm beginning to wonder how many people here actually watch MMA fights. For every time I see a ref break the action and deduct a point for strikes to the back of the head(the only time they break them is to give the deduction usually) I have seen dozens of verbal warnings as the action flows. When was the last time anyone here saw a fight where at some point the referee did not say "watch the back of the head" as the fight went on? Before the Mir/Lesnar fight that is. There is ALWAYS a verbal warning first, because the refs know a fighter most likely is caught up in the moment and merely needs a reminder to keep them focused. This should have been even more pronounced with a fighter who was not only making their UFC debut but only their second ever MMA fight. There were a couple of illegal blows to the back of the head, but NOTHING that was flagrant or intentional, in other words this was EXACTLY the kind of situation that would have been served well with a verbal warning/reminder. I give Mir credit for coming through with a nice sub, I give Mazzagatti credit for breaking with tradition and giving Mir a better opportunity to do so.


Exactly, sometimes I hear more than three warnings that are given out. This time, not even one was given. Bam, stand-up, point deduct.


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## DanTheJu (Mar 3, 2007)

There are clearly 3 strong, flush strikes to the back of the head. What’s different about this fight from other fights that you hear "watch the back of the head"? Simple, Mir was hurt and disoriented by the strikes to the back of the head.

If there is a fowl and there is no harm from it, a warning is warranted, if there is a fowl that causes harm, the reff MUST jump in. 

Lets us the groin for example!

If you slip an inside leg kick to high and graze the groin but it does not affect the other fighter at all then there should be a verbal warning and the fight should continue.

If you slip an inside leg kick and knock a guy to his knees because you hit him square in the testicles, the fight should be stopped and the fighter should be allowed to recover.

Mir got hit 3 times flush on the back of the head and he was clearly hurt. Steve stepped in and did what the rules call for. Simple. THERE IS NO ARGUMENT.


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## sub fan (Jan 11, 2008)

I have seen many fights where the guy on the ground had his back turned and a lot of punches hit him in the back of the head but most of the time the ref lets it go as long as he doesn't get hit a bunch of times in a row or if the blows land in between the side of the head and the back of the head. Lesnar only hit him maybe twice toward the back of the head and only one landed clearly on the back of the head, it the ref did not make that crappy call this fight would have went a different way for sure. Lesnar tossed him around like he was a LW.


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

DanTheJu said:


> Mir got hit 3 times flush on the back of the head and he was clearly hurt. Steve stepped in and did what the rules call for. Simple. THERE IS NO ARGUMENT.


Obviousely there IS an argument. I only saw two illegal blows first of all, and Mir was rocked before those strikes not because of them. The groin argument is apples and oranges, it takes a lot more than a glancing hammerfist usually to do any real damage on a back of the head shot, groin shots whether they do damage or not cause instinctive reaction which is immediately recognized by all parties.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

cplmac said:


> Obviousely there IS an argument. I only saw two illegal blows first of all, and Mir was rocked before those strikes not because of them. The groin argument is apples and oranges, it takes a lot more than a glancing hammerfist usually to do any real damage on a back of the head shot, groin shots whether they do damage or not cause instinctive reaction which is immediately recognized by all parties.


Heh, first there was NO illegal blows... then there was only ONE...now there was only ever TWO 
..anyhoo...

It doesnt take much to seriously injure a guy with shot to *anywhere* on the neck... 
Its even worse to take a blow on the *base* of the skull.

A groin shot might make you crumble with pain, a neck shot could black you out and/or paralyze you.

getting 'close' to those areas should be enough ... actually hitting those areas is just plain wrong.


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## LockNhold (Feb 3, 2008)

After the separation the fight went right back to the ground practically in the same position. Brock on top of Mir beating on him and Brock didnt go on to win the fight, yet people seem to think thats what would happen if the ref didnt call the penalty. Mir was in a bad spot, yes. Mir was also in a bad spot right after he got knocked down again after the penalty and Brock was on top of him beating him. Mir went for a couple armbar attempts, Brock got up and stepped right into the kneebar. Thats how quickly the game can change directions.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

LockNhold said:


> After the separation the fight went right back to the ground practically in the same position. Brock on top of Mir beating on him and Brock didnt go on to win the fight, yet people seem to think thats what would happen if the ref didnt call the penalty. Mir was in a bad spot, yes. Mir was also in a bad spot right after he got knocked down again after the penalty and Brock was on top of him beating him. Mir went for a couple armbar attempts, Brock got up and stepped right into the kneebar. Thats how quickly the game can change directions.


I agree, I dont think this would have been any different had Brock NOT done the illegal blows.

Standing em both up pretty much put them back on even ground.


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

Mazagatti could have been a little more lenient and given a warning instead of deducting a point. But follow the rules - no shots to the back of the head. Its not rocket science. 
Also, its easy for all of us to say "bad call!" if we're sitting at home on our comfy couch watching the fight. Put yourself in Mazagatti's shoes.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

Horribly call or not, it didn't matter. He ended up on the ground again anyways and still got caught. 

Had he paced himself and tried to be more methodical, and less retard rush, he might have been able to stop the fight with precise shots instead of crappy hammer fists.


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## sarahdalelio (Nov 11, 2007)

Actually the takedown after the standup looked like it did more damage to Mir than any of the shots to the back of the head.....if you call a straight right a takedown. Everyone's arguing how the stoppage hurt Lesnar, but I think it hurt Mir more. I mean, he gets stood back up to throw down with a man who is obviously more powerful than him, and gets ROCKED with the man's power hand. How are you gonna say the stoppage hurt Lesnar? Wrestling in college isn't the same as submission grappling. Sure you know how to hold someone down and beat on them, but what happens when the same guy you're beating on has joint locks and chokes at his disposal, and knows how to fight from his back? Obviously Lesnar needs to learn more about protecting himself against simple submissions like knee bars and ankle locks and such. They should have given him a warning before deducting the point, but hindsight's ALWAYS 20/20. It makes no sense to argue that standing them up, to a position were Lesnar had the obvious advantage, hurt Lesnar. He lost because at this point, Mir is the better all around fighter.


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## burton_o6 (Oct 30, 2007)

I found it kinda funny(actually i was pissed off because a friend texted me the outcome before i saw it). But after i found out the outcome i was watching his all access, and towards the end his trainer was trying to get him into a knee bar, and he slid out of it like it was nothing.


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## TGIB (Apr 15, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> I think the ref jumped in to stop the fight, realised his mistake and called a timeout for strikes to the back of the head to cover his mistake. Thats honestly what I saw happening.


Thats exactly how i saw it, i think either Mir said something to the ref or he was gona stop it, when he jumped in between them he looked at Mir like Mir had give up. If lesnar had been repeatedly punching him in the back of the head i could understand but he hit him at most twice. poor decision by the ref but you knew mir would catch him sooner or later. His lack of experience badly showed and it was a bad match up for his debut.


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## TGIB (Apr 15, 2007)

Anyway ill look forward to Mir's next fight if he can motivate himself, as for lesnar i think he should fight Kongo, herring or arlovski.


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## FunkYou (Apr 22, 2007)

TGIB said:


> Anyway ill look forward to Mir's next fight if he can motivate himself, as for lesnar i think he should fight Kongo, herring or arlovski.


althou those would probably be fun fights they would result in the same thing for brock - a loss. he should IMO go against some one lower down the pecking order. Hardonk maybe?:dunno:


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## sarahdalelio (Nov 11, 2007)

burton_o6 said:


> I found it kinda funny(actually i was pissed off because a friend texted me the outcome before i saw it). But after i found out the outcome i was watching his all access, and towards the end his trainer was trying to get him into a knee bar, and he slid out of it like it was nothing.


Maybe his trainer doesn't know how to do a kneebar. That's probably why Mir caught him, because he wasn't trained properly. Or, it only took him having it applied one time for him to learn how to defend it. That's not unheard of either.


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## burton_o6 (Oct 30, 2007)

sarahdalelio said:


> Maybe his trainer doesn't know how to do a kneebar. That's probably why Mir caught him, because he wasn't *trained properly*. Or, it only took him having it applied one time for him to learn how to defend it. That's not unheard of either.


That was my thoughts too..I believe he also said in his post fight interview that he had been working out the kneebar defense for a long time? I think.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

sarahdalelio said:


> Maybe his trainer doesn't know how to do a kneebar. That's probably why Mir caught him, because he wasn't trained properly. Or, it only took him having it applied one time for him to learn how to defend it. That's not unheard of either.


 Lesnar said in the post fight interview that they must have drilled that escape 1000 times and that Mir just wouldn't let go. 

You could see that Lesnar knew exactly what was happening to him the moment Mir swung his leg around. He knew what he was dealing with, but Mir was just that good.


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## cezwan (Dec 7, 2007)

im a fan of brock, but there is no point in making excuses now. a loss is a loss. all he has to do is learn from hes mistakes.

as people have been saying, maybe they should feed him someone with little to no ground game. give him a win to build hes confidence up?

p.s i rewatched the fight again and those bombs he was dropping on Mir's head were vicious!


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## Just a Fan (Feb 12, 2007)

If a guy drops to his Knee's and gets knocked out from an illegal knee to the head. What do you want the ref to do? "Watch the knee's to the head and you are the WINNER"? No, the fighter is disqualified and the fight is over. If a guy hits the back of his opponents head from his guard it is not as devastating and a warning is called. If someone is kneeling over there opponent and pound the back of the head even once, it could be permanent damage for Mir. Very good call ref.


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## sarahdalelio (Nov 11, 2007)

jasvll said:


> Lesnar said in the post fight interview that they must have drilled that escape 1000 times and that Mir just wouldn't let go.
> 
> You could see that Lesnar knew exactly what was happening to him the moment Mir swung his leg around. He knew what he was dealing with, but Mir was just that good.


Well that just proves that there was something wrong technically with Lesnars escape...I'm thinking his trainer just didn't know how to apply it properly, therefor Lesnar didn't know how to escape properly. If you train something wrong 1000 times, than it's not gonna work right in a real fight. Sorry:dunno:


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

sarahdalelio said:


> Well that just proves that there was something wrong technically with Lesnars escape...I'm thinking his trainer just didn't know how to apply it properly, therefor Lesnar didn't know how to escape properly. If you train something wrong 1000 times, than it's not gonna work right in a real fight. Sorry:dunno:


just because you practice it 1000x, doesnt mean that you will get it right the day of the competition.

every pro athlete practices everyday... some days are good days, some days are bad days... 

I think Brock just needs more actual cage experience to get a good feel of things.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

NFL recievers drops balls. MLB pitchers walk batters. NBA players miss free throws. Brock Lesnar screws up a submission escape.


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## BloodJunkie (Jun 18, 2007)

sarahdalelio said:


> Maybe his trainer doesn't know how to do a kneebar. That's probably why Mir caught him, because he wasn't trained properly. Or, it only took him having it applied one time for him to learn how to defend it. That's not unheard of either.


Well, I would be willing to say that he just got caught in a kneebar by Mir who is a BJJ specialist. It is obvious he didn't learn to defend it on the first try in training because he didn't defend it in the fight, besides his trainers would never let him out of training that sub after only one escape....because he was fighting Mir! I'm sure his trainers know how to apply a kneebar and it was the fact that Lesnar is not a developed, well rounded MMA fighter that led to him being subbed by a former Champion. :confused05: Welcome to the forum!


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## sarahdalelio (Nov 11, 2007)

BloodJunkie said:


> Well, I would be willing to say that he just got caught in a kneebar by Mir who is a BJJ specialist. It is obvious he didn't learn to defend it on the first try in training because he didn't defend it in the fight, besides his trainers would never let him out of training that sub after only one escape....because he was fighting Mir! I'm sure his trainers know how to apply a kneebar and it was the fact that Lesnar is not a developed, well rounded MMA fighter that led to him being subbed by a former Champion. :confused05: Welcome to the forum!


As would I. In all honesty I think Lesnar kinda sucks. All I'm trying to do is be respectful of a professional athlete, and give the man a little credit. But people are in here arguing the standup hurt Lesnar, blah blah blah, and I don't think the standup hurt him at all. I think it hurt Mir more than anything, because he is a bjj specialist, and the ground is where he had the advantage, and where he ended up winning the fight. When they put them back on their feet, Mir ended up getting rocked with a straight right.

It's just my way of getting all the people shouting about a conspiracy or whatever ridiculousness they're spewing to close their mouths and think about what they're saying. 

1 more thing. I hate pro wrestling. I'm not gonna say anything bad about it, but I've never watched it and before he came to UFC I'd never heard of Brock Lesnar.


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## BloodJunkie (Jun 18, 2007)

sarahdalelio said:


> As would I. In all honesty I think Lesnar kinda sucks. All I'm trying to do is be respectful of a professional athlete, and give the man a little credit. But people are in here arguing the standup hurt Lesnar, blah blah blah, and I don't think the standup hurt him at all. I think it hurt Mir more than anything, because he is a bjj specialist, and the ground is where he had the advantage, and where he ended up winning the fight. When they put them back on their feet, Mir ended up getting rocked with a straight right.
> 
> It's just my way of getting all the people shouting about a conspiracy or whatever ridiculousness they're spewing to close their mouths and think about what they're saying.
> 
> 1 more thing. I hate pro wrestling. I'm not gonna say anything bad about it, but I've never watched it and before he came to UFC I'd never heard of Brock Lesnar.


Ok. :thumb02:


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## Ebc_Kyle (Sep 24, 2006)

I think the fight should've been stood up, but I don't know about deducting a point from Lesnar.


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## joey__stalin (Dec 31, 2006)

The more I watch it the more Lesnar doesn't impress me with any kind of skill at all. Size and strength sure, but that was a given. Just reminds me of Bob Sapp. No skill or finesse... Just "Me big! Me overwhelm you with my size! Now me club you to death!"


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

His wrestling is extremely impressive. His striking may not be technical, but holy shit does he have some power.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

joey__stalin said:


> The more I watch it the more Lesnar doesn't impress me with any kind of skill at all. Size and strength sure, but that was a given. Just reminds me of Bob Sapp. No skill or finesse... Just "Me big! Me overwhelm you with my size! Now me club you to death!"


 Have you ever seen Bob Sapp fight? If so, I can't fathom how Lesnar reminds you of him, style wise.


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## Adamm411 (Apr 5, 2007)

Definitely some good points about Lesnar. Let's face it, he has massive potential but UFC's informal policy is to throw anyone with a big name in with the big boys immediately. 

I actually think Lesnar has the potential to be a heavyweight champion someday, but if so he is maybe 5 years away. Raw physical ability does not equal a championship. He has many years of training ahead of him in ju jitsu and striking it's not even funny. Even his ground and pound is almost comically unrefined at this point.

Really, his only skill right now is the takedown. This, combined with his raw physical assets, and his name, are obviously not enough to hurtle him to the top of the heavyweight division. 




ESPADA9 said:


> No if a fighter turns you can hit him just not on the back of the head or neck.
> Mir turning away didn’t FORCE Brock to throw punches.
> 
> Brock had the choice when Mir turned to throw in some body punches (that’s what I would do) and avoid the back of the head and neck.
> ...


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

jasvll said:


> Have you ever seen Bob Sapp fight? If so, I can't fathom how Lesnar reminds you of him, style wise.


I can see a similarity. 

Neither can really throw a punch properly, and both rely on sheer force to overwhelm their opponents. The only difference is that Brock Lesnar has some technical credibility due to his collegiate wrestling background. I think it's fair to say that both of them certainly use their sheer mass as their main weapon.


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## Wise (Oct 8, 2006)

The point deduction sucked, def should have been a warning if that. Ive seen alot worse not even get a warning before. I wasnt a fan of Brock coming into the UFC so quickly but Ill admit he looked pretty good in there. He is a little to overzealous though. Being agressive is good but I saw a few times where he really put himself out there to be subbed. I almost hate to say it but Ill be looking forward to seeing him fight again.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

Wise said:


> The point deduction sucked, def should have been a warning if that. Ive seen alot worse not even get a warning before. I wasnt a fan of Brock coming into the UFC so quickly but Ill admit he looked pretty good in there. He is a little to overzealous though. Being agressive is good but I saw a few times where he really put himself out there to be subbed. I almost hate to say it but Ill be looking forward to seeing him fight again.



Gah, don't be ashamed. I can't wait to see him wait again either. It seems like he will always bring an exciting fight, something we all enjoy.


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

Just a Fan said:


> If a guy drops to his Knee's and gets knocked out from an illegal knee to the head. What do you want the ref to do? "Watch the knee's to the head and you are the WINNER"? No, the fighter is disqualified and the fight is over. If a guy hits the back of his opponents head from his guard it is not as devastating and a warning is called. If someone is kneeling over there opponent and pound the back of the head even once, it could be permanent damage for Mir. Very good call ref.


Sorry my frontier gibberish is a little rusty, are you trying to say that there is some parallel between a downed opponent getting kneed to the head and Lesnars one or two glancing blows that may not have even technically been blows to the back of the head? Keep in mind that a blow to the back of the head is defined by the NSAC as being no more than one inch form the centerline of the back of the head. So a shot to the ear or even well behind it is NOT a blow to the back of the head.


sarahdalelio said:


> As would I. In all honesty I think Lesnar kinda sucks. All I'm trying to do is be respectful of a professional athlete, and give the man a little credit. But people are in here arguing the standup hurt Lesnar, blah blah blah, and I don't think the standup hurt him at all. I think it hurt Mir more than anything, because he is a bjj specialist, and the ground is where he had the advantage, and where he ended up winning the fight. When they put them back on their feet, Mir ended up getting rocked with a straight right.
> 
> It's just my way of getting all the people shouting about a conspiracy or whatever ridiculousness they're spewing to close their mouths and think about what they're saying.
> 
> 1 more thing. I hate pro wrestling. I'm not gonna say anything bad about it, but I've never watched it and before he came to UFC I'd never heard of Brock Lesnar.


Well at least we know you are objective...
Ever hear of momentum?


joey__stalin said:


> The more I watch it the more Lesnar doesn't impress me with any kind of skill at all. Size and strength sure, but that was a given. Just reminds me of Bob Sapp. No skill or finesse... Just "Me big! Me overwhelm you with my size! Now me club you to death!"


You've been talking shit about Lesnar since well before this fight so it's not like you don't have a dog in this fight. Comparing him to Sapp is pretty ignorant, Lesnar not only has very good wrestling, he has serious cardio, and LW quickness. Get over your elitist attitude and open your eyes. You are going to miss a lot of good fighters because you don't think they rate. You might want to take into consideration that his first big league fight was against Frank effin Mir.

All of the opinions on Lesnar, Mir and the way the fight finished aside, the ref screwed up plain and simple. I'm not taking anything away from Mir, he did an excellent job and pulled off a really tight knee bar. Seems pretty clear that for the most part it's people who just take issue with Lesnar even being in the UFC that can't seem to recognize that Mazzagati did him wrong. Congrats to Mir on winning a tough fight, and congrats to Lesnar for making a good showing in his debut despite the controversy neither of them asked for.


Attention I can't believe you negative repped me for this, pretty damn weak. I'm not going to return the favor because negative rep shouldn't be used to try and end an argument. It's pretty clear you just ran out of words.


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## burton_o6 (Oct 30, 2007)

Sorry to bring this up again..But I just recently watched the Shamrock vs Gracie fight on Elite xc fight. After seeing Dean stand the fight up and deducting a point from Frank with no warning, I'm not so bitter about this decision anymore. That is all.


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## AmRiT (Apr 23, 2007)

If Mir did turn around, Lesnar should still hit him in the face, he should have been in control, give him time and he will be able to do that

but for now, just say the better man won!

Mark my words though, Lesnar has the talent and Potential to win the HW title and become the best HW in the world!!!


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Old thread, but i like it.

I think Brock will be mean as hell when he develops. I expect him to be a GnP machine that will make Coleman and Tito look wimpy by comparison. Noone will be able to stop his takedowns, and i think very few will be able to defend against his sheer power once he's aware and thinking down there.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

Flak said:


> Old thread, but i like it.
> 
> I think Brock will be mean as hell when he develops. I expect him to be a *GnP machine that will make Coleman and Tito look wimpy by comparison.* Noone will be able to stop his takedowns, and i think very few will be able to defend against his sheer power once he's aware and thinking down there.


fedor has already done that.:thumb02:


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## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

chilo said:


> fedor has already done that.:thumb02:


We'll see. He has done it in Pride. But now he's playing in the minors and destroying cans. He can't live of the past forever.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I honestly believe the ref was right to stand them up, alot of fights get more hits to the back of the head before a stand up and point deduction ut Lesnar was dropping big bombs with no end in sight, the ref also has to account that Lesnar isnt experianced in this and could easily be cought up in the moment and end the fight, then the ref would be in a position were Mir couldnt continue because of an ilegal blow, the ref has to take into account the power of the hits and the potential to end the fight.


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## zath the champ (Feb 13, 2008)

This topic has been analyzed and argued in detail. The reality is that the refs have digression. As an avid fan, the stand-up and deduction seemed hasty, but it wasn't a "bad" call. Brock hit Mir a few times in the back of the head, by accident. That is against the rules. However, I would like to see more consistency with the application of point deductions and stand-ups. The same ref can not allow 5+ warnings for the same offense in one fight (Griffin v Tibau), and the same night give no warning at all to another fighter. If the sport is to grow and mature the rules and penalties need to be universal.

As for Brock, he is a beast. He will hopefully continue to improve and one day be a dominate force in the HW division. This guy has so much potential its sickening. How many fighters would even dare to take on FRANK MIR in their SECOND pro fight? This guy has a pair and he earned some major respect for wanting this fight and bringing it to Mir. I cant wait to see who he fights at UFC 85.

As for Frank Mir, it's great to see him back to in championship form. I would not be surprised to see him beating the winner of Werdum v Big Nog and taking back the HW title.

Nothing but good stuff so far for 08'


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

zath the champ said:


> This guy has so much potential its sickening. How many fighters would even dare to take on FRANK MIR in their *SECOND MMA fight?*


 There I corrected your sentence, Lesnar never fought and amateur MMA match so that was his second ever fight, most guys would have been fighting some overweight scrub in dirty sweaty gym.


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## zath the champ (Feb 13, 2008)

Toxic said:


> There I corrected your sentence, Lesnar never fought and amateur MMA match so that was his second ever fight, most guys would have been fighting some overweight scrub in dirty sweaty gym.


Indeed, the fight with Min Soo Kim* (sp?) might as well have been amateur fight. Overall, it may have built some confidence for Lesnar but it did nothing in terms of progressing Lesnar's skill set.

Thanks for the correction Toxic.


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## raymardo (Jun 21, 2006)

sarahdalelio said:


> 1 more thing. I hate pro wrestling. I'm not gonna say anything bad about it, but *I've never watched it *and before he came to UFC I'd never heard of Brock Lesnar.



How can you hate something that you never watched? It's impossible. You can say that you have no desire to watch it and give it a chance, but you can not correctly assert that you hate something that you have not experienced. 

Based on what you've heard, you have come to the conclusion that you would not enjoy professional wrestling - the same way I assumed that I would not like Garth Brooks. Then I was introduced to "I've Got Friends In Low Places." Next thing I knew, I was driving out of the cd store parking lot with Garth Brooks Greatest Hits blaring in my car.

Think about it...


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## All_In (Aug 23, 2007)

raymardo said:


> Next thing I knew, I was driving out of the cd store parking lot with Garth Brooks Greatest Hits blaring in my car.
> 
> Think about it...


Barf!


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

raymardo said:


> How can you hate something that you never watched? It's impossible. You can say that you have no desire to watch it and give it a chance, but you can not correctly assert that you hate something that you have not experienced.
> 
> Based on what you've heard, you have come to the conclusion that you would not enjoy professional wrestling - the same way I assumed that I would not like Garth Brooks. Then I was introduced to "I've Got Friends In Low Places." Next thing I knew, I was driving out of the cd store parking lot with Garth Brooks Greatest Hits blaring in my car.
> 
> Think about it...


Agreed... Nothing beats "Thunder Rolls" and drinking a beer


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## LockNhold (Feb 3, 2008)

considering the context, im sure he meant he doesnt watch it on a regular basis.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

*Lesnar Should Have Won By Dq..the Ref Is So Blind!!!*


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## Dana White (Mar 12, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


>


:laugh: Talk about FUNNY! :laugh: Stone Cold bashes Lesner with a steel chair. 

I have to go change my undies since I just inflicted some heavy damage to them due to that clip.


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## Tommy08 (Feb 2, 2007)

@ Fedor>all - roflmao!!!!!


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