# ***OFFICIAL*** Georges St. Pierre vs. Josh Koscheck Pre/Post Fight Discussion



## HitOrGetHit

*Please direct all discussion regarding St. Pierre vs. Koscheck into this thread. Any other threads will be merged into this one.*​


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## VincePierce

GSP FTW ! nuff said


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## Rygu

GSP by KO round 3. :thumb02:


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## Hammerlock2.0

GSP takes this, but it will be the most competitive fight since the first BJ fight (barring the Serra loss)... or at least since the first Koscheck fight.


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## Dan0

Three things I'm interested in:

1) Will Kos be able to stop Georges takedowns?
2) Who will have the edge in the stand up?
3) Will Kos even get to the ring? Everyone hates him as it is, but it's going to happen in MONTREAL!

Being a GSP nuthugger, I'm kind of worried for this fight. As childish as Kos is, the man has some serious KO power.


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## tommydaone

GSP via UD (total domination) 

Please smash his face in Georges!


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## oldfan

I guess somebody's gotta go first. 

Koscheck by vicious lay-n-pray.



*WAR KOS!*


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## Dan0

Oldfan, you really think that Kos will be able to not only get the takedowns, but keep GSP down for 25 minutes?


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## oldfan

Dan0 said:


> Oldfan, you really think that Kos will be able to not only get the takedowns, but keep GSP down for 25 minutes?


No. But anybody fighting GSP for the belt aught to have at least one fan. It's my turn.

edit: I do think kos is going to put everything he has into being the better wrestler. I'll be surprised if he's not.


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## Dan0

oldfan said:


> No. But anybody fighting GSP for the belt aught to have one fan. It's my turn.


Right.

Here's the formula -

'OK, here's the new challenger, he will win.
Damn it, GSP beat him
OK, here's the next challenger, he will beat GSP
Damn, that GSP won again
OK, here's another...'

THE SYSTEM IS INFINITE!


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## oldfan

Except it's not infinite because nobody is unbeatable.

Kos hits harder than Serra and wrestles better than anyone GSP has fought.

You never know.... that's why we watch.


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## Dan0

oldfan said:


> Except it's not infinite because nobody is unbeatable.
> 
> Kos hits harder than Serra and wrestles better than anyone GSP has fought.
> 
> You never know.... that's why we watch.


I was having a laugh back there, as I honestly believe that this is going to be the toughest defense that GSP has had in his career.


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## BobbyCooper

oldfan said:


> No. But anybody fighting GSP for the belt aught to have at least one fan. It's my turn.
> 
> edit: I do think kos is going to put everything he has into being the better wrestler. I'll be surprised if he's not.





oldfan said:


> Except it's not infinite because nobody is unbeatable.
> 
> Kos hits harder than Serra and wrestles better than anyone GSP has fought.
> 
> You never know.... that's why we watch.





Dan0 said:


> I was having a laugh back there, as I honestly believe that this is going to be the toughest defense that GSP has had in his career.


You are so right guys :thumbsup:

This is an incredible fight matchup for us Fans!!!

I am really really excited for this one and I don't count out Kos at all here. He has all the tools to make this an incredible exciting 5 Round war!

But on the end GSP takes it hopefully :thumb02:


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## HitOrGetHit

I honestly think the only thing Koscheck has over GSP is power. GSP is the more versatile striker, better wrestler, better in the clinch and has the better ground game.


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## Thelegend

oldfan said:


> I guess somebody's gotta go first.
> 
> Koscheck by *vicious lay-n-pray*.
> 
> 
> 
> *WAR KOS!*


does. not. compute.

kos to get tko'd by phantom knee that pokes him in the eye here.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy

Outside of MMA, I am a huge fan of NASCAR. And for me GSP has become the Jimmie Johnson of the UFC. Consistent, skillful dominance with minimal risk taking and strategic perfection. I'm not a fool who is going to discredit GSP's skills or accomplishments, but I can't help but feel a little tired of GSP.

And I'm just not that big of a fan. I got happy the other day when i bought UFC 50 and realized I had a GSP loss in my hands. I wouldn't say I'm a fan of Koschek, but I ha e delighted in his victories over Johnson and Daley. I still don't think he has what it takes to change the outcome of his previous outing with Georges, but the fight game is unpredictable.

The man who finishes this fight gains my fandom, and if it goes down like the GSP victory I foresee I'll just have to settle with the status quo.


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## Thelegend

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> Outside of MMA, I am a huge fan of NASCAR. And for me GSP has become the Jimmie Johnson of the UFC. Consistent, skillful dominance with minimal risk taking and strategic perfection. I'm not a fool who is going to discredit GSP's skills or accomplishments, but I can't help but feel a little tired of GSP.
> 
> And I'm just not that big of a fan. I got happy the other day when i bought UFC 50 and realized I had a GSP loss in my hands. I wouldn't say I'm a fan of Koschek, but *I ha e delighted in his victories over Johnson and Daley*. I still don't think he has what it takes to change the outcome of his previous outing with Georges, but the fight game is unpredictable.
> 
> The man who finishes this fight gains my fandom, and if it goes down like the GSP victory I foresee I'll just have to settle with the status quo.


strange, those two fights are arguably the gayest kos fights in history.:thumb02:

if gsp can finish kos, all talk of lay and pray will magically disappear. but since both have recently relied on pure grappling to win.........im willing to bet this becomes an epic stand up war.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy

Thelegend said:


> strange, those two fights are arguably the gayest kos fights in history.:thumb02:
> 
> if gsp can finish kos, all talk of lay and pray will magically disappear. but since both have recently relied on pure grappling to win.........im willing to bet this becomes an epic stand up war.


But I thought Daley was terribly overrated, and found Johnson to be somewhat of a p***sy for cutting that much weight and fighting guys so much smaller.

Does my enjoyment make more sense now?


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## Thelegend

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> But I thought Daley was terribly overrated, and found Johnson to be somewhat of a p***sy for cutting that much weight and fighting guys so much smaller.
> 
> Does my enjoyment make more sense now?


daley was overrated, but not as bad as hardy and swick. johnson cuts weight like everyone in that div. hes no bigger than fitch, if you can believe that.

but to each his own. i expect kos to get owned badly, if not i expect shields to choke him out, or viciously lay and pray him for five rounds.


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## Toxic

GSP is gonna **** Kos. Say what you want Kos is a great fighter but GSP is the better wrestler, the better grappler and the better striker. Kos has more power? What do you base that off of? He has what 3 knock outs all against guys who are nowhere near the elite in mma. Are people really saying Kos is gonna give GSP problems based on that fact they think he has a chance at some kind of flash knock out? Kos is a great fighter but IMO he is always like the GSP of a couple years ago. Kos is as good as the GSP he fought in in 2007. Unfortunately he isnt fighting circa 2007 GSP.


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## Dan0

Toxic said:


> GSP is gonna **** Kos. Say what you want Kos is a great fighter but GSP is the better wrestler, the better grappler and the better striker. Kos has more power? What do you base that off of? He has what 3 knock outs all against guys who are nowhere near the elite in mma. Are people really saying Kos is gonna give GSP problems based on that fact they think he has a chance at some kind of flash knock out? Kos is a great fighter but IMO he is always like the GSP of a couple years ago. Kos is as good as the GSP he fought in in 2007. Unfortunately he isnt fighting circa 2007 GSP.


I genuinely think that Kos imposes serious problems with both his wrestling and his stand up. Let's all remember that he didn't focus on his wrestling at all training for UFC 74, and still managed to take GSP down once (or twice? correct me, if I'm wrong). And you can't deny that the man has power and skill in the striking department. 
The only thing that convinces me otherwise is the Kos-Alves fight.


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## Guy Incognito

Toxic said:


> GSP is gonna **** Kos. Say what you want Kos is a great fighter but GSP is the better wrestler, the better grappler and the better striker. *Kos has more power? What do you base that off of? He has what 3 knock outs all against guys who are nowhere near the elite in mma.* Are people really saying Kos is gonna give GSP problems based on that fact they think he has a chance at some kind of flash knock out? Kos is a great fighter but IMO he is always like the GSP of a couple years ago. Kos is as good as the GSP he fought in in 2007. Unfortunately he isnt fighting circa 2007 GSP.


How does that mean he doesn't have power?


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## xeberus

KOS KO round 1/2


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## Soojooko

What exactly has Kos done to convince people he can win this? I simply cant comprehend it. He was terrified of standing with Daley. Took him down and did nothing to him except insult him enough to warrant a sucker punch at the bell.

GSP is at least the equal of Daley in the striking department. If he feared Daleys quite excellent hands, how on earth is he going to handle GSP's full range of striking skills?

And if he couldn't do anything much to Daley on the mat, he will never in a million years stop GSP down there.

All the evidence suggests Kos has nothing for GSP.

Besides, GSP is fooking gorgeous... and Kos is a Camel with a bad wig.


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## xeberus

Soojooko said:


> What exactly has Kos done to convince people he can win this? I simply cant comprehend it. He was terrified of standing with Daley. Took him down and did nothing to him except insult him enough to warrant a sucker punch at the bell.
> 
> GSP is at least the equal of Daley in the striking department. If he feared Daleys quite excellent hands, how on earth is he going to handle GSP's full range of striking skills?
> 
> And if he couldn't do anything much to Daley on the mat, he will never in a million years stop GSP down there.
> 
> All the evidence suggests Kos has nothing for GSP.
> 
> Besides, GSP is fooking gorgeous... and Kos is a Camel with a bad wig.


well.. i kind of picked a boring list of fighters winning and mostly by decision so i thought id go with kos via KO. probably wont happen, but meh let me have a bit of fun eh 

but i would disagree about gsp being the equal of daley in the striking department. i think if gsp stood with daley he'd get knocked out


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## Soojooko

xeberus said:


> well.. i kind of picked a boring list of fighters winning and mostly by decision so i thought id go with kos via KO. probably wont happen, but meh let me have a bit of fun eh
> 
> but i would disagree about gsp being the equal of daley in the striking department. i think if gsp stood with daley he'd get knocked out


Of course. Like I said, Daley has excellent hands. Probably better than GSP. But, GSP has a massive arsenal at his disposal. Add to that, he has obscene reach for a WW. If Koscheck thinks GSP will be less dangerous to him on the feet than Daley... well that's a dangerous assumption if you ask me.

Since the Serra fight, there have been plently of stand-up exchanges from GSP. In some fights, more than others. BUT, when you think about it... he OWNED all of them. Penn, Fitch, Alves, Koscheck, Hardy etc. Did any of them *ever* have the upper hand standing? For even a moment?

Going by previous fights, there is absolutely no solid evidence that GSP is weak when forced to strike. None. Only pure ownage.


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## xeberus

Soojooko said:


> Of course. Like I said, Daley has excellent hands. Probably better than GSP. But, GSP has a massive arsenal at his disposal. Add to that, he has obscene reach for a WW. If Koscheck thinks GSP will be less dangerous to him on the feet than Daley... well that's a dangerous assumption if you ask me.
> 
> Since the Serra fight, there have been plently of stand-up exchanges from GSP. In some fights, more than others. BUT, when you think about it... he OWNED all of them. Penn, Fitch, Alves, Koscheck, Hardy etc. Did any of them *ever* have the upper hand standing? For even a moment?
> 
> Going by previous fights, there is absolutely no solid evidence that GSP is weak when forced to strike. None. Only pure ownage.


well.. its his weak point... but its like.. hes so goddamn good at it, that its not really a weakness.. and well Penn owned him their first fight  



















but yea gsp has been marvelous against everyone else... and definitely improved his striking since. ie the destruction of penn in their second fight


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## Guy Incognito

xeberus said:


> well.. its his weak point... but its like.. hes so goddamn good at it, that its not really a weakness.. and well Penn owned him their first fight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *but yea gsp has been marvelous against everyone else... and definitely improved his striking since. ie the destruction of penn in their second fight*


that had more to do with BJ worrying about the TD then GSP being a better striker.


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## Soojooko

I was careful to say "since the serra fight"


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## oldfan

anything could happen


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## Dan0

oldfan said:


> anything could happen


Are you working for the UFC's marketing?


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## Guymay

I'm going With Kos via Very close Decision .


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## Iuanes

I'm fairly certain GSP is miles ahead of Kos in the stand up, or kilometers as it were since the fight is in Montreal.

Technically it's not even close, GSP is tighter and has more diversity as well more cohesion with his takedown attempts.

As for Koscheck's 'power', it comes from throwing bombs, he doesn't really have the natural power that Serra might have for example. He needs to set himself, and that makes him predictable and readable. Watch the Hardy fight vs GSP, ANY time Hardy tries to plant himself he gets taken down, or he gets countered.

I'm fairly certain Jackson and co are gameplanning less for a takedown counter and more for a knockout counter, due to Koschecks's wrestling pedigree.

One hopes at least.


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## BobbyCooper

I am wondering, if people only think that GSP can take down Kos and not the other way around. 

I think if either one shoots in that could very well be the round for the particular person on top. 

I doupt either one can stop either one's Takedowns.


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## cdtcpl

I am picking Kos. I think Kos will out LnP GSP. Both have excellent TDs and decent TDD. Without practicing wrestling for over a year Kos got GSP down the first time they fought. With guys like Fitch to work with his wrestling on I just don't see how Kos isn't 100% more prepared.


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## Dan0

cdtcpl said:


> I am picking Kos. I think Kos will out LnP GSP. Both have excellent TDs and decent TDD. Without practicing wrestling for over a year Kos got GSP down the first time they fought. *With guys like Fitch to work with his wrestling on I just don't see how Kos isn't 100% more prepared.*


Isn't GSP training with Olympic wrestlers regularly?


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## Guy Incognito

Dan0 said:


> Isn't GSP training with Olympic wrestlers regularly?


cormiers been a regular at AKA and kos has recently been training with askren.

And GSP is training with canadian team


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## Stapler

BobbyCooper said:


> I am wondering, if people only think that GSP can take down Kos and not the other way around.
> 
> I think if either one shoots in that could very well be the round for the particular person on top.
> 
> I doupt either one can stop either one's Takedowns.


You make a solid point. In their first fight, both of them managed to take each other down. They both have improved a lot since then, but I think that would still stand today. People can't mistake Koscheck for one of St. Pierre's previous opponents that would get stuffed all night. He is clearly capable of putting St. Pierre on his back again. That fight was closer than some people thought. Koscheck even won the first round on a lot of people's score cards.

I still think that St. Pierre will get the nod again, but I have my doubts that it will be 50-45 across the board like we usually see.

Either way, this fight will probably go the distance in my opinion.


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## Rationalist

GSP wins by submission in round 2. This is an easy fight for GSP.


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## limba

cdtcpl said:


> I am picking Kos. I think Kos will out LnP GSP. Both have excellent TDs and decent TDD. Without practicing wrestling for over a year Kos got GSP down the first time they fought. *With guys like Fitch to work with his wrestling on I just don't see how Kos isn't 100% more prepared.*


Aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

*Didn't GSP outwrestle Fitch?!* 
GSP TOOLED FITCH! Took him down at will, controlled him, made transitions and GnP'ed him.

*And GSP is the only fighter to pass Jon Fitch's guard. EVER!*

Koscheck couldn't do anything on the ground against Daley, who has the same skills on the ground as an amateur boxer!

SO. Maybe Kos wants to learn how to get owned by GSP?! Who knows?!


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## El Bresko

i don't really like either of these fighters very much, but i think GSP is the more complete fighter and will still be able to beat Kos.


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## bjjmatmop

After watching both coaches on TUF, I'm certainly rooting for GSP. That guy is just a class act. More fighters should carry themselves with that type of respect for themselves and the sport.


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## Rocco1016

I am rooting for Kos. I like GSP too, but people think that he is some kind of immortal who is invincible. There is no such thing!


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## HitOrGetHit

I don't think GSP is invincible by any means, but I definitely don't think Kosvheck is the fighter to beat GSP. I mean he has good wrestling, but GSP is the better wrestler and grappler. Standing, Koscheck is flat out sloppy while GSP is extremely versatile.


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## MMA-Matt

If Koscheck wants to win he better do so fairly quick. You know GSP can bring the same pace for 5 rounds...can Kos?


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## hixxy

Im not going with the majority here, im picking Koscheck! TKO 3rd round!


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## jmsu1

having just watched thier first fight .. kos actually did not look that bad, and as a matter of fact im fairly sure that aside from the sera fight kos was the last time gsp spent any time at all on his back ..

and really it was one of those no damage fights...

dont get me wrong im a huge gsp fan ... and i think kos is one of the biggest douches around

i see a closer fight but itlle all be on the ground again ..

prediction GSP via .. snoorefest


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## Rationalist

jmsu1 said:


> having just watched thier first fight .. kos actually did not look that bad, and as a matter of fact im fairly sure that aside from the sera fight kos was the last time gsp spent any time at all on his back ..
> 
> and really it was one of those no damage fights...
> 
> dont get me wrong im a huge gsp fan ... and i think kos is one of the biggest douches around
> 
> i see a closer fight but itlle all be on the ground again ..
> 
> prediction GSP via .. snoorefest


GSP was on his back briefly during the Alves and Fitch fight.


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## TheReturn

GSP via left hook. I'm going with Freddie on this one lol.
:fight02:


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## streetpunk08

GSP via TKO round 2. I forsee Koscheck getting tagged by GSP after throwing the predictable overhand right for the 30th time in the fight and dropped.


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## Rocco1016

bjjmatmop said:


> After watching both coaches on TUF, I'm certainly rooting for GSP. That guy is just a class act. More fighters should carry themselves with that type of respect for themselves and the sport.


I actually thought Kos was kind of funny on TUF. Yes, GSP was more professional, but you have to admit that he was kind of boring.....


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## aerius

jmsu1 said:


> having just watched thier first fight .. kos actually did not look that bad, and as a matter of fact im fairly sure that aside from the sera fight kos was the last time gsp spent any time at all on his back ..


Sure, and BJ did really well against GSP in their first fight losing by a close split decision. He was completely dominated and wrecked in the rematch. Matt Hughes did pretty well in the first fight and won it, as did Matt Serra. Both got ruined in the rematch. Every fighter who's rematched against GSP has been TKO'd.


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## thrshr01

aerius said:


> Sure, and BJ did really well against GSP in their first fight losing by a close split decision. He was completely dominated and wrecked in the rematch. Matt Hughes did pretty well in the first fight and won it, as did Matt Serra. Both got ruined in the rematch. Every fighter who's rematched against GSP has been TKO'd.


That's a nice bit of info. Didn't really think about the rematches. Not only did he Finish/make them quit, but he absolutely dominated and wrecked them.


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## jmsu1

aerius said:


> Sure, and BJ did really well against GSP in their first fight losing by a close split decision. He was completely dominated and wrecked in the rematch. Matt Hughes did pretty well in the first fight and won it, as did Matt Serra. Both got ruined in the rematch. Every fighter who's rematched against GSP has been TKO'd.



dont get me wrong .. im the biggest gsp nuthugger

but im just sayin ....


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## The Dark Knight

To be fair, I don't see this being an easy fight for GSP. Hate to say it but I agree with Bobby on this one. The TD's will decide who wins which round. Kos can take GSP down and vice versa. Standing up..GSP is a lot more technical and composed. But Kos' power is definitely there and should he catch GSP, well...

Wrestling will save Kos from looking like the previous opponents, but GSP will find some way to win. Decision more than likely.


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## Toxic

I think Leonard Garcia takes this fight via split decision. :dunno:


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## Woodenhead

Toxic said:


> I think Leonard Garcia takes this fight via split decision. :dunno:


:thumb01:

hahaha so true - I think I'll make that prediction for every fight from now on - how could I lose?


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## Raw_sToNe

Is easy for GSP to destroy one more time koscheck !


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## TheReturn

Half of the people rooting for koshcheck are doing it because gsp's more popular lol.:confused02:


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## JWP

It will be interesting to see what both fighters have worked on and what their gameplans are. Im wondering if GSP has focussed at all on finishing the fight or is just going to try to out-fight koscheck

I can see this going similar to the first fight as both fighters have improved. Im guna say that GSP will have worked on his subs and will sub Josh. Perhaps in the 3rd round


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## No_Mercy

I actually think GSP will TKO Koscheck this time around. 

Elite P4P champions fight not to win, but to showcase their talents and win in convincing fashion. 

He punished the one man who knocked him out (Serra), took out Hughes twice, and punished BJ brutally. He fought a smart fight with Hardy which he should have finished with the arm bar and kimura. Unfortunately his technique was a bit off. We all saw what happened to Fitch and Alves. 

He'll stick to the Greg Jackson game plan (take down, GNP, repeat, rinse, recycle), but I think we're gonna see some new and improved striking. I dunno what it is, superman punch, straight right, or left hook like what Freddie Roach said. GSP is gonna come out looking to put KOS away for good "and that would be the end of it!"


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## BobbyCooper

This is such a great matchup stylistically! :thumbsup:

I have no credits left to back it up, but I call upset in this one. 

GSP will lose his belt.


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## Soojooko

Man, this fight has inspired some proper theatrics thats for sure. We have GSP winning by Subs or KO in just about any round. We have Kocheck winning by Ko, lay-n-pray and/or some kind of skulduggery.

Fecking ridiculous. I love it.

Personally, I'm going for 1st round complete Koscheck deconstruction. Thats what I would like to see anyway, so feck it, thats what my moneys on.

GSP has evolved into a superb human specimen. Koscheck is slowly devolving into a camel. Nuff said.


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## Killz

there should be a vBookie for if Kos is gonna 'fake' an injury from a 'supposed' illegal shot in this one.


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## Rocco1016

BobbyCooper said:


> This is such a great matchup stylistically! :thumbsup:
> 
> I have no credits left to back it up, but I call upset in this one.
> 
> GSP will lose his belt.


I couldn't agree more!!


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## TheReturn

JWP said:


> It will be interesting to see what both fighters have worked on and what their gameplans are. Im wondering if GSP has focussed at all on finishing the fight or is just going to try to out-fight koscheck
> 
> I can see this going similar to the first fight as both fighters have improved. Im guna say that GSP will have worked on his subs and will sub Josh. Perhaps in the 3rd round


Lol ya I want to see if he finishes or hugs a decision out, but either way idc as long as koscheck gets the loss:thumb02:


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## The_Senator

I'd be more interested to see Koscheck vs Fitch, but they won't do it. GSP seems unstoppable, so he will beat Josh if he's 100%


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## oldfan

BobbyCooper said:


> This is such a great matchup stylistically! :thumbsup:
> 
> I have no credits left to back it up, but I call upset in this one.
> 
> GSP will lose his belt.


You're the man Bobby. I've got about 17000 left of what you gave me. I'll put it all on Kos and split the winnings with you.:thumbsup:

hey sookoojo....:tongue01:


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## Hexabob69

I like this fight and can see either victorious. Both fighters have grown a bit since last time they fought but I think Kosh has benefitted the most from that time. GSP has dominated all others whom he has faced a second time but I do not see this happening this time. If there is to be a KO/TKO it will have to be done early and the victory will be Kosh, on the other hand a decision will most likely be split and to know that I would have to look toward the future.


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## Woodenhead

I'm putting my money on Garcia by split decision.

>_>


OK srsly - GSP via 2nd rnd TKO. (I'd prefer a 1st rd KO tho)


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## Soojooko

oldfan said:


> You're the man Bobby. I've got about 17000 left of what you gave me. I'll put it all on Kos and split the winnings with you.:thumbsup:
> 
> hey sookoojo....:tongue01:


For all of my posturing, if I'm honest... I think I will laugh my bladder empty if Koscheck actually does it.

... followed swiftly, I'm sure, by nausea and long term haemorrhoids.


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## BobbyCooper

oldfan said:


> You're the man Bobby. I've got about 17000 left of what you gave me. I'll put it all on Kos and split the winnings with you.:thumbsup:
> 
> hey sookoojo....:tongue01:


Dudeabides was so gracious to send me 250k so that I can bet on Koscheck oldie. We will just turn this around my friend 

You know, I think Koscheck will be so dangerous for every second in this 5 round fight. He will hit GSP several times in this fight standing up and I also believe he will clip him throughout the later rounds and thats where he finishes. 

Just take a look back guys, on how damn well Kos already did against Thaigo Alves. He caught him several times with all kinds of strikes. Now GSP is even a better striker, but that fight was in 2008. Now imagine how good Koscheck has become in this long amount of time.

4th Round TKO stoppage or KO!


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## Danm2501

BobbyCooper said:


> This is such a great matchup stylistically! :thumbsup:
> 
> I have no credits left to back it up, but I call upset in this one.
> 
> GSP will lose his belt.


Yeah, it's an excellent style match-up for GSP. If he fails to secure the takedown he mauls Koscheck on the feet instead. It's perfect. Koscheck ain't winning the belt. GSP via left hook KO in the 3rd round.


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## BobbyCooper

Danm2501 said:


> Yeah, it's an excellent style match-up for GSP. If he fails to secure the takedown he mauls Koscheck on the feet instead. It's perfect. Koscheck ain't winning the belt. GSP via left hook KO in the 3rd round.


When was the last time GSP KO'd somebody on the feet? I can't remember that one honestly. 

Don't get me wrong, Kos is far behind in the standup game.. as he was when he fought Alves, but the guy takes everything GSP has to offer and he comes forward every single round. Extremely dangerous every second in a five round fight. He also can take GSP down and control him there, the same thing GSP is able to do.

Very close fight and stylistically a great matchup for us.


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## 420atalon

BobbyCooper said:


> Dudeabides was so gracious to send me 250k so that I can bet on Koscheck oldie. We will just turn this around my friend
> 
> You know, I think Koscheck will be so dangerous for every second in this 5 round fight. He will hit GSP several times in this fight standing up and I also believe he will clip him throughout the later rounds and thats where he finishes.
> 
> Just take a look back guys, on how damn well Kos already did against Thaigo Alves. He caught him several times with all kinds of strikes. Now GSP is even a better striker, but that fight was in 2008. Now imagine how good Koscheck has become in this long amount of time.
> 
> 4th Round TKO stoppage or KO!


Alves' striking is overrated. GSP was tooling him standing as well.

Koscheck is a dangerous fight for GSP, probably his most dangerous one in years, but everything he does well GSP does better. Koscheck has to land a big shot imo and he like many others hasn't been able to do so against top competition(Trigg, Yoshida and Hazelett are nothing to be all that proud of where as Thiago koed him because although he has power he has holes defensively).

Koscheck isn't going to outwrestle GSP, his MMA wrestling isn't on the same level, and GSP will out point him standing up/mixing in the odd takedown.


----------



## BobbyCooper

420atalon said:


> Koscheck isn't going to outwrestle GSP, his MMA wrestling isn't on the same level, and GSP will out point him standing up/mixing in the odd takedown.


I doupt GSP can stop Koscheck's shot. He has have put a lot of work into his Wrestling for this fight. If either one shoots in, the other guy is on his back. 

GSP outstriked Alves mainly cause he was scared of getting taken down over and over again. But I do believe he is a better striker, but not by that much. And Kos fought Alves 3 years ago.. he's a complete different fighter as is GSP.


----------



## No_Mercy

BobbyCooper said:


> I doupt GSP can stop Koscheck's shot. He has have put a lot of work into his Wrestling for this fight. If either one shoots in, the other guy is on his back.
> 
> GSP outstriked Alves mainly cause he was scared of getting taken down over and over again. But I do believe he is a better striker, but not by that much. And Kos fought Alves 3 years ago.. he's a complete different fighter as is GSP.


You're usually right in your analysis and picks, but I'm going to have to go with GSP due to sheer bias...lolz. I try to find a way to like KOS, you know. Embrace his hair, his attitude, cockiness, and rhetorics. I really can't though. After watching the Countown show now we all know why he is the way he is. He's a troubled character who used wrestling/MMA as an outlet. On a philosphical level I think he's already beat. This is truly a white vs black hat battle. 

Skill wise KOS has improved, but still has much to learn. GSP will follow the usual routine and break em mentally. THEN begin to outstrike and eventually TKOing him. I don't think GSP wants to submit him. He will display his boxing and Muay Thai arsenal Saturday night to prove a point. 

As Phil Nurse said..."there's a lot of things we worked on that in the fights that he had, the timing wasn't right to pull them off just yet...but the hype and how this fight is going I think the things is going to be right in time just to show Koscheck what time it is."


----------



## Danm2501

GSP is the best wrestler in MMA. Sure Kos has awesome wrestling, but he doesn't have the wrestling to dominate GSP. GSP defends the takedown, is good enough to initiate his own takedowns and then on the feet he now has the inside defence and the gameplan to destroy Koscheck on the feet. Koscheck's stand-up has improved, but not at the rate of GSP's since Serra. GSP was always awesome from the outside, but struggled defensively on the inside, which is what Serra took advantage of. Roach, Zahabi, Whittman and Winklejohn have worked on that extensively and got GSP's striking onto a whole new level, far superior to that of Koscheck. Koscheck does not have the technique or power to put GSP down, and Georges will prove that Saturday night. As Freddie Roach predicted, GSP by left hook KO, in the 3rd.


----------



## 420atalon

BobbyCooper said:


> I doupt GSP can stop Koscheck's shot. He has have put a lot of work into his Wrestling for this fight. If either one shoots in, the other guy is on his back.
> 
> GSP outstriked Alves mainly cause he was scared of getting taken down over and over again. But I do believe he is a better striker, but not by that much. And Kos fought Alves 3 years ago.. he's a complete different fighter as is GSP.


I really don't think either guy has changed all that much in the past couple years. Koscheck may be slightly improved standing up but that is about it. Even his stand up is still raw as we saw against Thiago and Daley, the biggest difference is he was able to fight lower end guys for the most part making his striking look better then it was. 

Just like Alves Koscheck will have to be worried about being taken down. Koscheck has wrestling credentials but GSP is the better wrestler and proved it in their first fight. He sets up his takedowns so much better then Kos does and that is probably the most important part of MMA wrestling. 

Koscheck can work on his wrestling as much as he wants he isn't going to get good enough overnight and he hasn't noticeably improved in recent years. 

GSP is going to pick Koscheck apart standing and land the majority of takedowns.


----------



## BobbyCooper

You guys underestimate him wayyy too much here! 

Koscheck never gives up in a fight and GSP is not the only one who can shoot in for a Takedown. If Kos set's it up nicely, then GSP has NO Chance to defend that Takedown. If he really does so, then I would be shocked! Koscheck has some of THE best shot's in all of MMA. Ok he will get picked apart by George standing up, but that doesn't mean Koscheck will back down. He will come forward and press the action, hit GSP with several body shot's and kicks. 
He's a complete different fight then he was in the first fight.

For me he stands out the most, from all the WW contenders. The toughest fight for George.


Also the Paulo Thiago fight is a bad example. Kos owned him in this fight with very sharp Boxing and Kicks. He only got caught by the first punch Thiago landed in the whole fight.

The way I see it, is that GSP wants to avoid every second standing with Koscheck. He will try to do the same thing he did in his last fights, all about Wrestling and GnP.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

You know, I started out thinking that Koscheck had the better chance at finishing in a power sense, but now I am sure that GSP has that advantage. I mean, if you look at their records, Koscheck has 9 finishes with 4 of them being (T)KO's while GSP has 13 finishes with 8 of them being by way of (T)KO.


----------



## 420atalon

BobbyCooper said:


> Also the Paulo Thiago fight is a bad example. Kos owned him in this fight with very sharp Boxing and Kicks. He only got caught by the first punch Thiago landed in the whole fight.
> 
> The way I see it, is that GSP wants to avoid every second standing with Koscheck. He will try to do the same thing he did in his last fights, all about Wrestling and GnP.


The thing is Thiago caught Koscheck when Koscheck was throwing the same punch/combination as what he used to knock out most of the guys. Alves, GSP, Thiago etc all showed that Koscheck's striking has holes and it still does, he just hasn't fought a fighter that could take advantage of them like GSP will. Daley would have but Kos didn't let him strike.



HitOrGetHit said:


> You know, I started out thinking that Koscheck had the better chance at finishing in a power sense, but now I am sure that GSP has that advantage. I mean, if you look at their records, Koscheck has 9 finishes with 4 of them being (T)KO's while GSP has 13 finishes with 8 of them being by way of (T)KO.


Not only that look at who and how they finish guys. Koscheck has only finished Trigg, Yoshida and Hazelett. 3 mediocre fighters with low level striking.

GSP forced Penn to quit, destroyed Serra and finished both Hughes and Sherk. Both Fitch and Alves were in trouble in their fights as well. 

GSP has very underrated standup these days just because he chooses to wrestle. He picks apart everyone standing. Penn, Fitch, Alves, Hardy. Much better strikers then what Kos has fought. Kos has power but is still bad technically and GSP is going to prove this.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Of course GSP is the far better striker here, but that doesn't mean much when you fight a guy like Kos. Just rewatch the Alves fight in 08.. Kos took everything Alves had to offer (and Alves destroyed his legs) but still came out in the third and almost punched Alves out a couple of times. Kos is also able to fight the fifth round like the first. 

GSP isn't safe here anywhere, only when he uses his Wrestling over and over again. But Kos will do the same and try to beat GSP up on the ground too. He will also not be able to take Kos down everytime he wants to.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

BobbyCooper said:


> Of course GSP is the far better striker here, but that doesn't mean much when you fight a guy like Kos. Just rewatch the Alves fight in 08.. Kos took everything Alves had to offer (and Alves destroyed his legs) but still came out in the third and almost punched Alves out a couple of times. Kos is also able to fight the fifth round like the first.
> 
> GSP isn't safe here anywhere, only when he uses his Wrestling over and over again. But Kos will do the same and try to beat GSP up on the ground too. He will also not be able to take Kos down everytime he wants to.


I disagree. Whenever GSP is on his back, he is very good at sweeping and ending up on top again. I also think that Koscheck is going to be taken down quite a few times and his worry about being taken down like their first encounter is going to make his striking suffer as well.

And yes Alves put a beating on Koscheck but I could say the same for GSP. Penn beat the snot out of GSP in the first round of their first fight and GSP kept on coming. The only difference is that gSP was still able to pull off the win.


----------



## BobbyCooper

HitOrGetHit said:


> I disagree. Whenever GSP is on his back, he is very good at sweeping and ending up on top again. I also think that Koscheck is going to be taken down quite a few times and his worry about being taken down like their first encounter is going to make his striking suffer as well.
> 
> And yes Alves put a beating on Koscheck but I could say the same for GSP. Penn beat the snot out of GSP in the first round of their first fight and GSP kept on coming. The only difference is that gSP was still able to pull off the win.


Koscheck has one of the best top controls in all of MMA, even comparable to Sonnen and GSP. If he lays on GSP, I doupt George will just sweep him over and thats that.

And Penn is no Wrestler like Kos. If Kos's striking will suffer because of the fear of getting taken down ( where I totally agree with you Hit) then GSP's striking will suffer the same. If either one of these guys set up the Takedown nicely, the other person just can not defend it anymore. And that could well be, be the round for the particular person on top.

Plus both of them have brutal GnP.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

The overall grappling advantage goes to GSP in my opinion. I honestly think that Koscheck has to be worried about being taken down more than GSP does. I think that GSP's technique and timing is unparalleled.

Striking wise, GSP is much more versatile, technical, and effective. Koscheck really doesn't have great striking at all. I mean it has come a long way since TUF but it is not on GSP's level yet.


----------



## BobbyCooper

HitOrGetHit said:


> The overall grappling advantage goes to GSP in my opinion. I honestly think that Koscheck has to be worried about being taken down more than GSP does. I think that GSP's technique and timing is unparalleled.
> 
> Striking wise, GSP is much more versatile, technical, and effective. Koscheck really doesn't have great striking at all. I mean it has come a long way since TUF but it is not on GSP's level yet.


I would also give him the edge there. But ONLY when he is on top! For example, I doupt GSP's BJJ is good enough to really beat up Kos, sweep him or attack him with Kimura's and Triangle's from his back. I also don't think GSP will really serious try to submit Kos like he did to Hardy. He is going ot GnP him, too really hurt him. 

But if Koscheck is on top, this also counts for him! Remember what he did too Chris Lytle? 

GSP probably has the Takedown advantage and I also believe he will try to take Kos down every second he get's.. unlike Koscheck. Because I really can't believe he is going to risk standing up with him for too long.. even though he is the better striker.

The way Kos fought his recent fights, I am willing to say, that he is the more comfortable striker out there with WAY less fear of getting hit.


----------



## 420atalon

BobbyCooper said:


> The way Kos fought his recent fights, I am willing to say, that he is the more comfortable striker out there with WAY less fear of getting hit.


Easy to be comfortable fighting cans...

Koscheck wanted NOTHING to do with Daley standing up. 

It was also Koscheck's less fear of getting hit that ended up with him getting Koed against Thiago. 

You have pretty much said you think that GSP is the better striker and has better takedowns but you still think that Kos is going to win? Kos like Alves will be dangerous but loses this fight probably 8 out of 10 times.

I actually think GSP is going to finish Kos this fight. KO standing or sub from top control.


----------



## BobbyCooper

420atalon said:


> Easy to be comfortable fighting cans...
> 
> Koscheck wanted NOTHING to do with Daley standing up.
> 
> It was also Koscheck's less fear of getting hit that ended up with him getting Koed against Thiago.
> 
> You have pretty much said you think that GSP is the better striker and has better takedowns but you still think that Kos is going to win? Kos like Alves will be dangerous but loses this fight probably 8 out of 10 times.
> 
> I actually think GSP is going to finish Kos this fight. KO standing or sub from top control.


I think 7 out of 10 times is about right :thumbsup:

And this is going to be one of the 3 times 

The better fighter doesn't always win!

I also said, that only the guy on top is the better grappler with a slight edge to GSP in the Takedowns and MAYBE TDD. Can't really answer that yet.

The Daley fight doesn't say anything, cause Kos knew that Daley had no answer for his grappling at all. So why should he risk too lose a Title shot with standing against a guy who is a far superrior striker?

Other then that Kos stood up with everybody he faced and pressed the action almsot every time. Of course you are getting caught sometimes.. but thats the risk he will definitely take to win that belt. And thats exactly why he is so extremely dangerous and why I pick him to win this time.

But then of course the chances that George might KO him go up as well! 

In my mind GSP does not want to strike with Kos longer then he needs too.


----------



## oldfan

BobbyCooper said:


> I think 7 out of 10 times is about right :thumbsup:
> 
> And this is going to be one of the 3 times
> 
> The better fighter doesn't always win!
> 
> I also said, that only the guy on top is the better grappler with a slight edge to GSP in the Takedowns and MAYBE TDD. Can't really answer that yet.
> 
> The Daley fight doesn't say anything, cause Kos knew that Daley had no answer for his grappling at all. So why should he risk too lose a Title shot with standing against a guy who is a far superrior striker?
> 
> Other then that Kos stood up with everybody he faced and pressed the action almsot every time. Of course you are getting caught sometimes.. but thats the risk he will definitely take to win that belt. And thats exactly why he is so extremely dangerous and why I pick him to win this time.


yeah!


----------



## BobbyCooper

oldfan said:


> yeah!


Let's say 6 out of 10 times^^ makes us even more confident then we already are lol :thumb02:


----------



## 420atalon

BobbyCooper said:


> In my mind GSP does not want to strike with Kos longer then he needs too.


This is where our view points differ then. I think GSP wants to strike with Kos as he has a definitive advantage imo. And I also think Kos also plans to outwrestle GSP not knock him out. 

Koscheck is a dangerous wrestler, it is possible that he could outwrestle GSP but I think because of GSP's better striking and better takedowns he will be able to avoid being taken down more often then not and punish Kos on the feet leaving Kos needing to land that one lucky shot.


----------



## dudeabides

Dana White said this show is going to break UFC records at the press conference held today. Because of GSP fighting in this hometown and taking place at the Bell Centre they expect to break the attendance record held by UFC 97 and the gate record held by 66. The ticket prices are also up there (can you guess which of these was the only one my lowly paid arse could go to?):


----------



## aerius

BobbyCooper said:


> Koscheck has one of the best top controls in all of MMA, even comparable to Sonnen and GSP. If he lays on GSP, I doupt George will just sweep him over and thats that.


Go back to the Jon Fitch fight. Jon Fitch, you know, the guy who can take down and blanket anyone for an entire fight? And has done so to pretty much everyone not named GSP? He managed to keep GSP on his back for all of one minute out of a 25 minute fight, and that was only because GSP got reversed on a RNC attempt.

At best I'd put Koscheck's top control at roughly Fitch level, and that frankly isn't good enough.


----------



## Rygu

I'm not sure when Koscheck suddenly developed striking good enough to threaten a p4p fighter. Last time I heard he's knocked out Yoshida, Trigg, and Hazelett. 

That isn't impressive. He throws telegraphed haymakers and has a hook to the body. If his plan is to try and keep it on the feet against GSP than a lot of people will probably get their wish.


----------



## Azzan

I hope Kos wins by KO, cos we all know GSP won't win via KO.

GSP is chicken, cheater, boring, can't finish fights. Safe Pierre FTL!


----------



## Soojooko

Azzan said:


> I hope Kos wins by KO, cos we all know GSP won't win via KO.
> 
> GSP is chicken, cheater, boring, can't finish fights. Safe Pierre FTL!


Yes. We must bow down to the colossus that is the Koscheck, finishing fights against the most prestigious of opponents such as Frank Trigg and Anthony Johnson. I'm sure if Koscheck was fighting Alves, Fitch, BJ, Hughes or one of the other cans GSP has been amusing himself with, he would have finished them all in an instant.


----------



## BobbyCooper

aerius said:


> Go back to the Jon Fitch fight. Jon Fitch, you know, the guy who can take down and blanket anyone for an entire fight? And has done so to pretty much everyone not named GSP? He managed to keep GSP on his back for all of one minute out of a 25 minute fight, and that was only because GSP got reversed on a RNC attempt.
> 
> At best I'd put Koscheck's top control at roughly Fitch level, and that frankly isn't good enough.


The thing with Fitch is, he was just a grappler when he fought GSP and he was miles behind in the striking. Plus Jon Fitch doesn't have such an incredible timed TakeDown shot, Kos has. Kos can set up a Takedown as nicely as GSP and Rashad. He will rush you down. 
Fitch is slow and graps a douple when he got you against the Cage and then trys to take you down. It's a totally different thing! 
Ok Fitch has great Top Control as well, but he doesn't have the ground and pound either. Kos can really open you up and make you a bloody mess down there. When did you saw that the last time in a Jon Fitch fight??

Plus Kos can strike and can punch much, much harder the Fitch does. He throws great Body shot's, kicks from all angles. Very unpredictable as well, cause he strikes so unorthodox.

Jon was unable to get this too the ground in the first place and was already pretty beat up when he finally had GSP on his back.



420atalon said:


> This is where our view points differ then. I think GSP wants to strike with Kos as he has a definitive advantage imo. And I also think Kos also plans to outwrestle GSP not knock him out.


He did not even exchange punches for 2 seconds with Dan Hardy.. who is probably the most overrated striker in all of MMA. Kos would beat Dan standing up! And you can really see, that Kos has lot's more power behind his shot's then Dan has.

If GSP is afraid of getting hit, (wich he is since the Serra fight) then he should avoid every second striking with a guy like Koscheck, who just doesn't care if he get's hit.

Just let this go through your mind..

would you really strike with somebody like Koscheck, if you got beat up badly by a below average striker in Matt Serra? If I were the Champion, I wouldn't risk that!


----------



## Erem Kell

*St. Pierre*

I will go for St. Pierre,most of his wins came from submissions and KO, while koscheck mostly wins by KO. If Pierre cannot excel on hitting styles during a fight, he can always change it to grappling where he is more efficient. I don't under estimate koscheck, It's just he's more effective on KO than tap out.


----------



## cdtcpl

One thing I am really liking about this thread is pretty much everyone is willing to admit that either fighter can win. Typically people aren't even willing to give that much ground in these threads.

This fight is going to be awesome and will really settle a couple of questions for myself, and I am sure a lot of other people. I am rooting for Kos since I am a fan of his and I dislike GSP. Can't really explain in an understandable way why I feel that way, but I do. I respect GSP's skills and recognize that he is the clear favorite here, but I think Kos can frustrate GSP enough to get him to start making mistakes. The home crowd advantage might actually work against him as well since it will be harder to hear his corner. Sure the same problem exists for Kos, but inbetween rounds it really seems like the little 'pep talk' he gets helps him and he may have to go without them. 

And to be blunt, I hope this fight doesn't become a giant LnP fight because one of them can get the TD and do nothing without the serious threat of losing top control. I believe these two fighters are easily the most complete fighters at 170 with GSP being the more refined and Kos being rough around the edges. 

And finally, what I love most about this fight, neither man has a real weakness! They are both legit strikers with finishes in that fashion, both have sub wins, both have won decisions, both have made wrestlers look silly, and neither of them ever seems to give up or stop. There may be better strikers, or even better wrestlers (doubt it) in MMA out there somewhere, but no one else has put the package together as well as these 2 men have.

Oh and WAR KOS!


----------



## 420atalon

*a*



BobbyCooper said:


> He did not even exchange punches for 2 seconds with Dan Hardy.. who is probably the most overrated striker in all of MMA. Kos would beat Dan standing up! And you can really see, that Kos has lot's more power behind his shot's then Dan has.
> 
> If GSP is afraid of getting hit, (wich he is since the Serra fight) then he should avoid every second striking with a guy like Koscheck, who just doesn't care if he get's hit.
> 
> Just let this go through your mind..
> 
> would you really strike with somebody like Koscheck, if you got beat up badly by a below average striker in Matt Serra? If I were the Champion, I wouldn't risk that!


You mean the Hardy that GSP outstruck 10-1 standing. Using his better standup to set up beautiful takedowns...

GSP wasn't afraid to stand with Hardy, he knew he had a huge advantage on the ground so took advantage of it. He wasn't scared he was smart...

On the feet GSP outsruck Kos 24-2 their first fight. Oustruck Alves 45-19 on the feet. Penn 30-8 . Fitch 77 to 27....

GSP is willing to strike with anyone but he does take the fight to where he has the advantage. Against most fighters this is on the ground. He might take part of this fight to the ground but he is going to win it by outstriking Koscheck's horrible overrated standup...

Edit: GSP would have a lot more wins by KO if he was fighting cans like Trigg, Yoshida and Hazelett...


----------



## cisco2403

420atalon said:


> You mean the Hardy that GSP outstruck 10-1 standing. Using his better standup to set up beautiful takedowns...
> 
> GSP wasn't afraid to stand with Hardy, he knew he had a huge advantage on the ground so took advantage of it. He wasn't scared he was smart...
> 
> On the feet GSP outsruck Kos 24-2 their first fight. Oustruck Alves 45-19 on the feet. Penn 30-8 . Fitch 77 to 27....
> 
> GSP is willing to strike with anyone but he does take the fight to where he has the advantage. Against most fighters this is on the ground. He might take part of this fight to the ground but he is going to win it by outstriking Koscheck's horrible overrated standup...
> 
> Edit: GSP would have a lot more wins by KO if he was fighting cans like Trigg, Yoshida and Hazelett...


Has GSP ever KO'ed anyone to be saying if he fought cans he would have more KO's? He has also fought cans like Trigg before and he didn't win by KO.


----------



## oldfan

cisco2403 said:


> Has GSP ever KO'ed anyone to be saying if he fought cans he would have more KO's? He has also fought cans like Trigg before and he didn't win by KO.



1. Trigg ain't no can.

2. GSP won that fight by total big brother domination and made him look like a can. To me, that's more impressive than one punch finding the button for a ko.

Edit: *WAR KOS*


----------



## cisco2403

oldfan said:


> 1. Trigg ain't no can.
> 
> 2. GSP won that fight by total big brother domination and made him look like a can. To me, that's more impressive than one punch finding the button for a ko.
> 
> Edit: *WAR KOS*


I wasn't inferring that Trigg was a can. It was a response to what 420 had said insinuating that if GSP had fought "cans" like Trigg, he would have knocked him out as well.


----------



## aerius

cisco2403 said:


> Has GSP ever KO'ed anyone to be saying if he fought cans he would have more KO's? He has also fought cans like Trigg before and he didn't win by KO.


2nd fight against Hughes, the combo off the superman would've been a KO if the round hadn't ended. Then he head kicked Hughes and finished him the 2nd.

Fight against Fitch, the punch that flattened Fitch at the beginning of the 3rd would've knocked out most fighters.


----------



## Toxic

Wow I just watched the weigh ins and GSP is freaking intense. I have never seen him like that he was damn near vibrating and came accross legitimately angry when Rogan interviewed him. Its not gonna be a long night for Kos he is going down early and hard.


----------



## 420atalon

oldfan said:


> 1. Trigg ain't no can.
> 
> 2. GSP won that fight by total big brother domination and made him look like a can. To me, that's more impressive than one punch finding the button for a ko.
> 
> Edit: *WAR KOS*


Can was probably overly harsh for Trigg but to think he is and always was far from a good fighter. He was the best of the worst when the UFC had a weak crop of fighters. 



Toxic said:


> Wow I just watched the weigh ins and GSP is freaking intense. I have never seen him like that he was damn near vibrating and came accross legitimately angry when Rogan interviewed him. Its not gonna be a long night for Kos he is going down early and hard.


GSP is not only fighting for himself tonight but for his nation and cities pride. Koscheck should not have tried to rile him up, riled up GSP = pain.


----------



## Woodenhead

Toxic said:


> Wow I just watched the weigh ins and GSP is freaking intense. I have never seen him like that he was damn near vibrating and came accross legitimately angry when Rogan interviewed him. Its not gonna be a long night for Kos he is going down early and hard.


Oh wow

*looks for a vid*


----------



## BobbyCooper

Yea I saw it.. oh boy^^ This a DREAM fight!!!

This is going to be THE best WW fight of the year by far. Kos will bring it too him every second. 

If anybody can beat GSP it's Koscheck! 


Can't wait to finally see this!

WAR GSP and Koscheck!


----------



## 420atalon

Did you guys all see the press conference clip?

I am yet to see the weighins but I have never seen GSP as fired up as he was at the press conference.


----------



## Toxic

BobbyCooper said:


> The thing with Fitch is, he was just a grappler when he fought GSP and he was miles behind in the striking. Plus Jon Fitch doesn't have such an incredible timed TakeDown shot, Kos has. Kos can set up a Takedown as nicely as GSP and Rashad. He will rush you down.
> Fitch is slow and graps a douple when he got you against the Cage and then trys to take you down. It's a totally different thing!
> Ok Fitch has great Top Control as well, but he doesn't have the ground and pound either. Kos can really open you up and make you a bloody mess down there. When did you saw that the last time in a Jon Fitch fight??
> 
> Plus Kos can strike and can punch much, much harder the Fitch does. He throws great Body shot's, kicks from all angles. Very unpredictable as well, cause he strikes so unorthodox.
> 
> Jon was unable to get this too the ground in the first place and was already pretty beat up when he finally had GSP on his back.
> 
> 
> 
> He did not even exchange punches for 2 seconds with Dan Hardy.. who is probably the most overrated striker in all of MMA. Kos would beat Dan standing up! And you can really see, that Kos has lot's more power behind his shot's then Dan has.
> 
> If GSP is afraid of getting hit, (wich he is since the Serra fight) then he should avoid every second striking with a guy like Koscheck, who just doesn't care if he get's hit.
> 
> Just let this go through your mind..
> 
> would you really strike with somebody like Koscheck, if you got beat up badly by a below average striker in Matt Serra? If I were the Champion, I wouldn't risk that!


Bobby really? Are you forgetting what GSP did to the best striker he has fought? GSP was beating BJ Penn standing. BJ is a much better striker than Hardy or Alves and is definitely superior to Koschek. GSP is miles ahed technically of Koschek. People forget that the reason Serra was able to do that was because he has never shown any power what so ever. He never knocked anybody out and GSP went in with no reason to respect Serra's hands. Serra was a BJJ guy. It was kinda the same reason that Sonnen out struck Silva when they fought, Silva had no reason to be leary of Sonnen's stand up. IMo say what you want but BJ Penn was a much bigger threat to GSP than Koschek is. The guy has a punchers chance but so have a half dozen other guys who couldn't get it done either.


----------



## bjjmatmop

They are building Koscheck up because they need someone to challenge GSP at a pay per view title defense, but at 170lbs there really insn't anyone that he hasn't already thrashed. But anything can happen in this crazy sport.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Toxic said:


> Bobby really? Are you forgetting what GSP did to the best striker he has fought? GSP was beating BJ Penn standing. BJ is a much better striker than Hardy or Alves and is definitely superior to Koschek. GSP is miles ahed technically of Koschek. People forget that the reason Serra was able to do that was because he has never shown any power what so ever. He never knocked anybody out and GSP went in with no reason to respect Serra's hands. Serra was a BJJ guy. It was kinda the same reason that Sonnen out struck Silva when they fought, Silva had no reason to be leary of Sonnen's stand up. IMo say what you want but BJ Penn was a much bigger threat to GSP than Koschek is. The guy has a punchers chance but so have a half dozen other guys who couldn't get it done either.


No no Toxic, Koscheck not only has a punchers chance.. he has a great chance!

For me Kos is by far the biggest threat to George in the entire devision. BJ Penn doesn't have the athleticism and heart and will that Koscheck has. Not even close! He quits when things don't go his way Toxic. Koscheck will take the punishment, and will still continue to come forward and try to beat George up. 
And if Koscheck fakes a punch and shoots for the Takedown, GSP will be on his back. But that will mostly be GSP's Gamweplan, cause I really can not believe that he really wants to stand with Koscheck for too long. 

Kos will give him also some of his own medicine, if he really put's things together and comes in with a great gameplan. He will also win some rounds and will keep coming until the fight is over!!!


----------



## Woodenhead

Like Tox & so many others have said, Kos has little more than a puncher's chance. Anyone who believes otherwise has swallowed the marketing pill a bit too wholeheartedly, I think. Not that there's no legit argument from that side of the fence, just that there's really no strong ones.

One lucky swing can change everything, but in reality it's a low % bet here. Totally possible, but a broken clock is right twice a day. And that % gets lower as the fight goes on, IMO - if Kos is gonna win this, it'll be early. I give that a 15% chance of happening.


----------



## edlavis88

I can't believe people still seem to think better KO ratio = better stand up. It don't work like that at all.


----------



## BobbyCooper

edlavis88 said:


> I can't believe people still seem to think better KO ratio = better stand up. It don't work like that at all.


Who thinks that way?



Woodenhead said:


> Like Tox & so many others have said, Kos has little more than a puncher's chance. Anyone who believes otherwise has swallowed the marketing pill a bit too wholeheartedly, I think. Not that there's no legit argument from that side of the fence, just that there's really no strong ones.
> 
> One lucky swing can change everything, but in reality it's a low % bet here. Totally possible, but a broken clock is right twice a day. And that % gets lower as the fight goes on, IMO - if Kos is gonna win this, it'll be early. I give that a 15% chance of happening.


Only people who have no clue at all think that way!

People thought Dan Hardy has a punchers chance.. Koscheck is a totally different threat.


----------



## Rusty

Here's a vid somebody recorded with a calculator if anyone wants to check it out.


----------



## khoveraki

Bobby Cooper has changed a lot during Lyotos last two losses Toxic. You're definitely right and Cooper is talking crazy.


----------



## Danm2501

GSP had 1 issue when he fought Serra, his short range boxing was not good enough. Serra was able to close the distance and land shots. Since that fight GSP has improved immeasurably. Freddie Roach has sorted his Boxing out beyond recognition. Sure, there's a chance Koscheck could land a big shot, but it ain't happening. GSP is much more techinical, Roach has him landing with much more power and he's far better defensively than Koscheck.

Koscheck is in for a beating. This is the most fired up Georges St. Pierre we have ever seen. He was talking to Koscheck on the stage at the weigh-ins, something he never does and his comments afterwards were spot on. The bully is going to get bullied. This is going to be a legit Bully Beatdown. To provide a fairly recent analogy GSP iss going to put in a Lauzon vs Rudiguer-esque performance in this fight. He's going to run through Josh Koscheck in a round. In his home town, he hates Koscheck and he wants to keep that belt. Koscheck isn't making it out of round one.


----------



## Woodenhead

BobbyCooper said:


> Only people who have no clue at all think that way!
> 
> People thought Dan Hardy has a punchers chance.. Koscheck is a totally different threat.


I respectfully but totally disagree with that first part, Bobby.

I pretty much agree with the second part tho - I gave Hardy a 2% punchers chance. And Kos at least can be a threat on the ground.

Should be a fun fight, either way. The atmosphere before the 1st round starts alone will be worth the watch. _*electric*_


----------



## Toxic

BobbyCooper said:


> No no Toxic, Koscheck not only has a punchers chance.. he has a great chance!
> 
> For me Kos is by far the biggest threat to George in the entire devision. BJ Penn doesn't have the athleticism and heart and will that Koscheck has. Not even close! He quits when things don't go his way Toxic. Koscheck will take the punishment, and will still continue to come forward and try to beat George up.
> And if Koscheck fakes a punch and shoots for the Takedown, GSP will be on his back. But that will mostly be GSP's Gamweplan, cause I really can not believe that he really wants to stand with Koscheck for too long.
> 
> Kos will give him also some of his own medicine, if he really put's things together and comes in with a great gameplan. He will also win some rounds and will keep coming until the fight is over!!!


If Kos fakes a shot and shoots GSP will be on his back. That is fine GSP is a black belt who trains to be on his back but if you listened to his trainers you would also know that despite the fact he trains with guys like Rashad who is a great wrestler in his own right. When they want GSP to work of his back they ask him to start there because its a position he just doesn't get in. GSP has the best TD defense in the sport and has the statistics to back that up despite fighting Hughes, Koschek and Fitch who are all great wrestlers. You know who better be prepared to be on his back? Your boy Kos because my money even at 10to1 is that Kos is the guy spending all his time on his back. Kos could hardly hold Daley down, he couldn't take Alves down (something GSP did at will). Keep believing that Kos is this vastly improved fighter. Why cause he knocked out Trigg? Wow that is amazing, wait its not 2005? Its was 2009 and Trigg hadn't won a relevant fight in 3 years. Nevermind then,. He Ko'd Yoshida that is a pretty good win, I mean Yoshida is a good fighter but he is hardly a world beater and comparing him in any way shape or for to GSP is absurd.
He fought 2 relevant fighters since he fought GSP last. Both strikers one had TD defense and picked him apart the other couldn't stop a TD by a junior high kid who has been to 3 wrestling practices. Nothing has really changed, GSP is still the better wrestler, still the better grappler and still the better striker, and GSP will still dominate this fight.


----------



## buckeyefighter

GSP will win this in dominating fashion just like he always does. He is hands down the best fighter EVER


----------



## No_Mercy

GSP is probably statistically the toughest fighter to take down and more importantly to keep down. 

Koscheck and Fitch both took GSP down, but for how long. Mere seconds, before he shrimped, hip escaped, and popped back up. 

GSP will dictate the pace from the start to finish. Ending it once and for all.


----------



## Silva4Ever

I also think that GSP will win, but not as easily as some people think. Kos will win at least one round.


----------



## dudeabides

Can't wait!


----------



## Soojooko

Toxic said:


> If Kos fakes a shot and shoots GSP will be on his back. That is fine GSP is a black belt who trains to be on his back but if you listened to his trainers you would also know that despite the fact he trains with guys like Rashad who is a great wrestler in his own right. When they want GSP to work of his back they ask him to start there because its a position he just doesn't get in. GSP has the best TD defense in the sport and has the statistics to back that up despite fighting Hughes, Koschek and Fitch who are all great wrestlers. You know who better be prepared to be on his back? Your boy Kos because my money even at 10to1 is that Kos is the guy spending all his time on his back. Kos could hardly hold Daley down, he couldn't take Alves down (something GSP did at will). Keep believing that Kos is this vastly improved fighter. Why cause he knocked out Trigg? Wow that is amazing, wait its not 2005? Its was 2009 and Trigg hadn't won a relevant fight in 3 years. Nevermind then,. He Ko'd Yoshida that is a pretty good win, I mean Yoshida is a good fighter but he is hardly a world beater and comparing him in any way shape or for to GSP is absurd.
> He fought 2 relevant fighters since he fought GSP last. Both strikers one had TD defense and picked him apart the other couldn't stop a TD by a junior high kid who has been to 3 wrestling practices. Nothing has really changed, GSP is still the better wrestler, still the better grappler and still the better striker, and GSP will still dominate this fight.


I mean... how much clearer can the truth be?


----------



## Indestructibl3

dudeabides said:


> Can't wait!


I hate you so much ... there are still like 5 hours to go!


----------



## oldfan

Soojooko said:


> I mean... how much clearer can the truth be?




















































seems clear to me...


----------



## Soojooko

oldfan said:


> seems clear to me...


You follow that advice me old mucker and the final image will look something like


----------



## acrocha33

Gsp all the way!!! I'm really interested in seeing how kos will try to defend gsp's mad takedown and KO power. It's going to be an interesting fight!


----------



## towwffc

GSP is almost always going to be a favorite against anybody he fights in the welterweight division, but Koscheck is one of the few guys that can actually make a fight with him competitive. I am rooting for GSP, and believe he is the better fighter everywhere, but Koscheck isn't to be taken lightly. His striking may not be as technicle as Georges, but he has power and is usually aggressive with his attacks. Wrestling wise, he has taken Georges down before, and may be able to do it again. If that happens who knows how the fight could go. I'm excited though!


----------



## Roflcopter

Kos outwrestles Greasy Georges. Guaranteed.


----------



## Walker

Roflcopter said:


> Kos outwrestles Greasy Georges. Guaranteed.


GSP wins the fight- guaranteed.​


----------



## MWB1108

Im picking Koscheck to win by 1st round KO or TKO. It will be a surprise shot early when they are feeling each other out.


----------



## slapshot

I think KoS can win the fight standing, he's improved and he developed some ko power.


I dont think he will win, most of the reasons have already been stated, nobody should be shocked if KoS pulls it out even if its not the most probable outcome.

GSP by TKO on the ground late in the second or middle of the third.


----------



## Rygu

GSP is a more technical striker than Kos, and has a better ground game, and fights smarter. 

If he can handle Fitch, he can handle Kos.


----------



## dafunguru

Kos feels like all hype, I think one of the trailer videos said it best, Kos made it through popularity rather than strong competition, whereas GSP has been ripping through everything that even looks at his title...


----------



## Rauno

Let's go GSP!


----------



## 420atalon

Gsp! Gsp! Gsp!


----------



## Walker

*WAR GSP!!!!!!!*​


----------



## limba

Once Kos will try to swing his right, GSP will take him down and control him.

I hope for a submission from GSP!

And i believe he will get it before rd 4!!!

GSP - by armbar! or kimura!


----------



## BadHabitBabe

Go Georges!!!


----------



## AK-Bronco

I think Kos can handle GSP rhythm....
Kos KO 2nd or 3rd


----------



## the ultimate

Kos leaves himself open to counters and as we saw in the Fitch fight, GSP will destroy someone with a counter Right.

GSP KO 1


----------



## AJClark

Man, I'm pumped!!!

*war Kos!!*


----------



## Bonnar426

Everybody is booing and Kos has a big smile on his face! Gotta love it!


----------



## Rauno

Koscheck just lost the fight.


----------



## dafunguru

Anyone else getting chills? lol


----------



## The Dark Knight

Before I would have said that this would be a tough 5 round fight with a GSP win, but now i'm not so sure. Kos might be in over his head here, I think. On paper, it should be competitive, but i'm not so sure.


----------



## Roflcopter

Can't wait for this dethronement.


----------



## footodors

Koscheck better start slinging overhead rights right from the start.


----------



## BadHabitBabe

Post some play by play please raise01:


----------



## GlasgowKiss

GSP had one small takedown, working his jab well

feeling each other out a bit


----------



## CamTheCaveman

Id love some actual play by play.


----------



## GlasgowKiss

repeated jab has bloodied Kos who looks outlcassed on feet thus far


----------



## Rauno

Kos is eating it standing up.


----------



## SerJ

You can tell GSP has been training boxing a lot. That jab is very nice!


----------



## dafunguru

GSP's outstriking Koscheck, Kos is just swinging widly, GPSs just with stiff Jabs, this one isn't gonna last long imo, Kos is already swelling up under the eye


----------



## John8204

The crowd is slightly behind GSP at this point


----------



## limba

Nice striking from Georges!


10-9 GSP


----------



## GlasgowKiss

Kos ended round on top, no damage tho

10-9 GSP, Kos BADLY swollen up on right eye


----------



## Walker

Kos can't see out of the right eye from that jab. :thumb02:​


----------



## The Dark Knight

That eye looks nasty.


----------



## dafunguru

Koscheck takedown

ROUND 1 GSP


----------



## Shoegazer

10-9 Greasy Georges


----------



## Roflcopter

GSP is going to lose this fight.


----------



## Danm2501

Excellent shot from Koscheck at the end of the round. Nowhere near enough to win the round though, GSP dominated the stand-up. Koscheck can't get close to connecting with the big right.


----------



## BadHabitBabe

SerJ said:


> You can tell GSP has been training boxing a lot. That jab is very nice!


Getting coached by Freddie Roach was the smartest move!


----------



## John8204

crowd is thrilled with Koscheck's messed up eye	:fight02:


----------



## dafunguru

Koscheck's eye looks NASTY lol


----------



## Shoegazer

Holy Crap that eye is done...this fight is about to end


----------



## GlasgowKiss

gsp superman attempt, Kos hesitant, not too much happening


----------



## edlavis88

that eye is rough. GSP dominating the stand up.


----------



## GlasgowKiss

jab city from gsp


----------



## dafunguru

this one was in the books at the weigh in haha


----------



## GlasgowKiss

good body kick by gsp then double jab


----------



## CamTheCaveman

I honestly hope this is just josh feeling out gsp. Findingnthe rhythm and getting his bearings on what gsp is gonna do.


----------



## John8204

crowd is chanting F you Koscheck


----------



## footodors

Stpierre is standing all the way. my hero


----------



## edlavis88

Shame Freddie Roach is in vegas with Khan cos he'd be creaming over GSP's jab!


----------



## Bonnar426

We had a fake knee shot when Kos fought Daley! Now we have a fake nut shot here. Good thing Herb didn't believe Kos!


----------



## GlasgowKiss

non eventful end to round

10-9 GSP


----------



## BadHabitBabe

edlavis88 said:


> Shame Freddie Roach is in vegas with Khan cos he'd be creaming over GSP's jab!


No doubt. I'm watching that fight now.


----------



## Rauno

Didn't Kos say "I'm going to make that P***y GSP stand with me"?


----------



## limba

Two of the best wrestlers in MMA engaging in a 99% Stand-up fight!!!

AWESOME! :thumb02:

20-18 GSP


----------



## Walker

Where are the lay-n-pray haters now????​


----------



## Roflcopter

WHY did KOS stop going for the TD?!??

Damn it. GSP will win if this continues.


----------



## Rygu

Wow Kos' eye reminds me of Tyson against Douglas back in the day.


----------



## Shoegazer

20-18 GSP. I hope they don't stop this fight because of the eye.


----------



## GlasgowKiss

GSP looking for kicks, connecting inside leg kick


----------



## dafunguru

Standup War...well not really, more like a standup 25 killstreak nuke on Koscheckland,

20-18 GSP


----------



## 420atalon

Has there ever been a louder crowd?


----------



## GlasgowKiss

clinch against cage


----------



## John8204

Roflcopter said:


> WHY did KOS stop going for the TD?!??
> 
> Damn it. GSP will win if this continues.


to qoute GSP



EEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

fighting wrestlers is my specialetie


----------



## GlasgowKiss

knees by GSP, still in clinch


----------



## dafunguru

John8204 said:


> to qoute GSP
> 
> 
> 
> EEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> 
> fighting wrestlers is my specialetie


LOL :thumbsup: repped


----------



## MWB1108

GSP is jabbing circles around Josh

Damn I wanted Josh to win...


----------



## GlasgowKiss

stalemate, split to middle of octagon


----------



## GlasgowKiss

clinch again


----------



## GlasgowKiss

split to middle

inside leg by gsp, then more jabs


----------



## footodors

Does st pierre have some wierd protruding belly going on? Reminds me of chuck liddell.


----------



## GlasgowKiss

tired takedown attempt by Kos, nowhere near to getting it


----------



## Rauno

Another great round for GSP.


----------



## dafunguru

I'm disappointed in Koscheck 

I legit thought he had a better chance than the past challengers!


----------



## Blitzz

Looks like Kos focused too much on wrestling this time around and forgot to train striking.


----------



## dafunguru

Round 3 GSP

30-27


----------



## GlasgowKiss

doctor check to eye. round 4 here we go...


----------



## Shoegazer

30-27. Maybe Kos thinks he's going to tire out by georges throwing too many jabs...


----------



## 420atalon

Now I just want to see Kos get ktfo


----------



## Roflcopter

GSP by UD....shocker.

Anyway, I can't wait until he fights Sheilds, who will actually go for takedowns instead of just throwing overhand rights that miss badly every 20 seconds and standing flat footed.

Only thing this proved to me is that Kos would win the wrestling, but hes stupid and won't try to take GSP down.


----------



## Rygu

LOL @ Rogan "Get out of here Chris Cringle". 

That eye is nasty though.


----------



## Danm2501

GSP 3 rounds up. He's kicking the power from Koscheck's leg which puts an end to that big takedown, and Koscheck has nothing for him on the feet. This is vintage Georges St. Pierre. Been a great performance so far!

Haha, "Get out of there Chris Cringle". Rogan's a funny motherfucker!


----------



## GlasgowKiss

takedown by gsp, scramble by kos


----------



## AlphaDawg

Koscheck has the worst game plan I've ever seen.

What the **** is he doing?


----------



## dafunguru

Round 4, Championship Rounds, Koschecks gonna get murdered now...GSPS in the RUSH ZOOOONNNEEEEE


----------



## GlasgowKiss

Dean breaks them up from clinch


----------



## GlasgowKiss

trading some punches, GSP still comfy tho


----------



## dafunguru

GSP literally is rushes in, takedown, gets back for a second, Kos saves himself by going for leg, both guys are up again


----------



## Stapler

In the grappling department, it's been close. St. Pierre is just easily the better striker and that has made an obvious difference in the fight.


----------



## GlasgowKiss

inside leg kick by gsp, more of the same basically


----------



## Shoegazer

Knew he was a long shot, but I never thought Kos would be so tentative...


----------



## Steroid Steve

AlphaDawg said:


> Koscheck has the worst game plan I've ever seen.
> 
> What the **** is he doing?


Hoping he lands a right hand...


----------



## GlasgowKiss

gsp pouring on more jabs and outside leg kicks, kos has nothing.

10-9 GSP every round


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Roflcopter said:


> GSP by UD....shocker.
> 
> Anyway, I can't wait until he fights Sheilds, who will actually go for takedowns instead of just throwing overhand rights that miss badly every 20 seconds and standing flat footed.
> 
> Only thing this proved to me is that Kos would win the wrestling, but hes stupid and won't try to take GSP down.


lol, give it up, chief. GSP winning a UD stand-up clinic, finally giving everyone what they've been complaining and griping to see, and not what you'd probably dub 'lay and pray', and it's still not good enough. Go cry somewhere else. I like Jake, but if you think he has a shot at taking down GSP, then you're out of your mind. GSP will make Shields look about as bad as he did Fitch, and now Kos. Guaranteed.


----------



## Rauno

"Herb Dean knows what's up" Haha.


----------



## limba

Freddie Roach anyone?!


----------



## BadHabitBabe

limba said:


> Freddie Roach anyone?!


Hells Ya!


----------



## G_Land

wow 160 ppl are in ths thread lolz


----------



## John8204

This is the last round of your life Josh.....don't tease us don't tease


----------



## GlasgowKiss

failed TD by Kos


----------



## Shoegazer

40-26 GSP. Kos is definitely NOT acting like this is the chance of a lifetime and leaving it all in the octagon...


----------



## dafunguru

This is an awesome fight, how do people complain? I love this dude now. I'll be honest I wasn't too big of a fan of GSP before the hype for UFC 124, but after learning how awesome of an athlete, and MMA fighter he is, I LOVE HIM. HOW CAN YOU COMPLAIN?!


----------



## The_Sandman

This is hilirious. 
Koscheck is such a _'douche-bag'_.

It's a championship fight and the dude isnt even "bringing it"...

With that said..

GSP looks awesome. Great stand-up, very technical. :thumbsup:


----------



## GlasgowKiss

more of the same from gsp, nothing from kos


----------



## BadHabitBabe

Thanks for posting Glasgow... much appreciated! raise01:


----------



## The_Sandman

Shoegazer said:


> 40-26 GSP. Kos is definitely NOT acting like this is the chance of a lifetime and leaving it all in the octagon...


I agree.
He looks awful... What a waste.
Koscheck will not get another title shot in his life.


----------



## GlasgowKiss

go to clinch, eye is bleeding more now, gsp controlling clinch


----------



## dafunguru

Hey, I'm noob, who's Freddie Roach? (lol sorry)


----------



## GlasgowKiss

takedown by gsp, scramble by Kos then repeat again!


----------



## Danm2501

dafunguru said:


> Hey, I'm noob, who's Freddie Roach? (lol sorry)


Best Boxing coach in the business.


----------



## BadHabitBabe

dafunguru said:


> Hey, I'm noob, who's Freddie Roach? (lol sorry)


Best boxing coach EVER!


----------



## Rygu

Awesome job by Koscheck of backing his months of shit-talking up. 

He's just awesome.


----------



## GlasgowKiss

kos has wilted, nothing from him

gsp jabs and its all over.

then they hug in a boring it was all hype type of way


----------



## limba

> I think even the judges can get this one right - Joe Rogan


EPIC EPIC LMAO!!!


----------



## Steroid Steve

This was just a pathetic fight. A lot of hype and Josh had a puncher's chance at least, but still pathetic.


----------



## Rauno

I think, even the judges can get this one right! Rogan is on fire tonight.


----------



## dafunguru

Danm2501 said:


> Best Boxing coach in the business.


thanks, bro

GSP still owning Koscheck

50-0 in my book heehee


----------



## Danm2501

Bit more info here if you want it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Roach_(boxing)

Leonard Garcia via Split Decision. TBH.


----------



## UrbanBounca

This is one of the most boring main events I've ever seen.


----------



## Woodenhead

Dominating performance from GSP once again.

This time, on the feet.

Freddie Roach may have made him about as good a boxer as he is a wrestler.

Insane.


----------



## Shoegazer

Kos just wanted to avoid a stoppage and pick up his paycheck in that one. What a non-effort.


----------



## footodors

That was anti-climactic!


----------



## dafunguru

LOL "I sure hope so."


----------



## Rauno

UrbanBounca said:


> This is one of the most boring main events I've ever seen.


Ever? Really, ever?


----------



## Abrissbirne

even though i like Kos, he deserved that beating 
Awesome performance by GSP, he seems absolutely unbeatable!


----------



## Walker

Roflcopter said:


> GSP by UD....shocker.
> 
> Anyway, I can't wait until he fights Sheilds, who will actually go for takedowns instead of just throwing overhand rights that miss badly every 20 seconds and standing flat footed.
> 
> Only thing this proved to me is that Kos would win the wrestling, but hes stupid and won't try to take GSP down.


----------



## Roflcopter

Canadian Psycho said:


> lol, give it up, chief. GSP winning a UD stand-up clinic, finally giving everyone what they've been complaining and griping to see, and not what you'd probably dub 'lay and pray', and it's still not good enough. Go cry somewhere else. I like Jake, but if you think he has a shot at taking down GSP, then you're out of your mind. GSP will make Shields look about as bad as he did Fitch, and now Kos. Guaranteed.


Kos took him down, he's just a mental midget and looked to land a single overhand right all fight. It was a pathetic performance, and of course Mr.Greasy himself never fails to play it safe and conservative and win a safety-first UD on a guy that was begging to be stopped.


----------



## MagiK11

That was a clinic! God damn!


----------



## Spec0688

how can you guys complain about this fight? GSP hit Kos with some big hooks and was busy NON STOP on the feet. 

Kos is no easy person to finish, Thiago got a nice uppercut in but he took heavy shots from Anthony Johnson, who probably has the heaviest hands in the WW divison.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Roflcopter said:


> Kos took him down, he's just a mental midget and looked to land a single overhand right all fight. It was a pathetic performance, and of course Mr.Greasy himself never fails to play it safe and conservative and win a safety-first UD on a guy that was begging to be stopped.


Oh, damn, well if Kos took him down once, that MUST mean he was en route to winning the fight. Because, you know, that's what happened after Josh took GSP down in their first encounter. Oh, wait.

He stood with Josh, a known power puncher, who said that if GSP did stand, he'd have his KO victory. He begged for GSP to stand. So St. Pierre DOES stand, and that's playing it safe? lol, there's no pleasing some of you clowns. Like I said, go cry elsewhere. You backed the wrong horse. Suck it up.


----------



## Woodenhead

I can't wait to see a good hi-res pic of Kos's face after this one.

It'll be better than Fitch's.

LOL


----------



## edlavis88

Anyone doubting GSP's stand up now? Haters gonna hate - but i thought that was awesome.


----------



## Steroid Steve

MagiK11 said:


> That was a clinic! God damn!


A clinic on a punching bag... haha


----------



## John8204

Koscheck has a nasty case of the vagina eye.


----------



## CamTheCaveman

The way youve all been deacribing the fight, im disappointed. I expected josh to try and knock gsp from montreal to mexico and back. I really wanted him to back up his shit talking with a legendary KO


----------



## dafunguru

Roflcopter said:


> Kos took him down, he's just a mental midget and looked to land a single overhand right all fight. It was a pathetic performance, and of course Mr.Greasy himself never fails to play it safe and conservative and win a safety-first UD on a guy that was begging to be stopped.




Seriously...just shutup. 

That was an amazing performance, I'd like to see you do the same. What? You can't? Then stop shit talking, seriously.


----------



## Rauno

Roflcopter said:


> GSP by UD....shocker.
> 
> Anyway, I can't wait until he fights Sheilds, who will actually go for takedowns instead of just throwing overhand rights that miss badly every 20 seconds and standing flat footed.
> 
> Only thing this proved to me is that Kos would win the wrestling, but hes stupid and won't try to take GSP down.


Some people can't just be satisfied by anything.


----------



## edlavis88

Koscheck sounds punch drunk!


----------



## The Dark Knight

Again amazing performance by St Pierre. Theres nothing left to be said really innit.


----------



## Walker

Roflcopter said:


> Kos took him down, he's just a mental midget and looked to land a single overhand right all fight. It was a pathetic performance, and of course Mr.Greasy himself never fails to play it safe and conservative and win a safety-first UD on a guy that was begging to be stopped.


----------



## Blitzz

Man, I was fully expecting Kos to lay n pray his way to a decision win. But no, he got all retarded and tried to strike with GSP.


----------



## Woodenhead

John8204 said:


> Koscheck has a nasty case of the vagina eye.


:thumb01:


----------



## limba

Classy Kos in defeat!

Damn?!


----------



## Danm2501

Koscheck couldn't even see Rogan when he tried to shake his hand, that eye is jacked. Have gained a heck of a lot of respect for him after that fight though. He took some serious punishment and stayed in there. He could easily have quit when Chris Cringle was checking his eye out. Showed a lot of respect after the fight too. Maybe he's not as much of a douche as I thought he was. Props to Koscheck.


----------



## Cragly

C-l-i-n-i-c-a-l


----------



## John8204

Roflcopter said:


> Kos took him down, he's just a mental midget and looked to land a single overhand right all fight. It was a pathetic performance, and of course Mr.Greasy himself never fails to play it safe and conservative and win a safety-first UD on a guy that was begging to be stopped.


----------



## AJClark

GSP's skill is awesomely scary...

I'm off to bed.

Props to Kos btw. Seriously


----------



## BadHabitBabe

No suprise Koscheck couldn't back all his *&#^ talk.. his mother should be so proud... NOT! An embarassment to the sport IMO.


----------



## MagiK11

I was pretty surprised KOS didn't try to mix things up. I think GSP confused the hell out of kos after the first round and kos was completely lost since then.


----------



## Thelegend

that was a satisfying and expected beatdown.


----------



## Roflcopter

Canadian Psycho said:


> Oh, damn, well if Kos took him down once, that MUST mean he was en route to winning the fight. Because, you know, that's what happened after Josh took GSP down in their first encounter. Oh, wait.
> 
> He stood with Josh, a known power puncher, who said that if GSP did stand, he'd have his KO victory. He begged for GSP to stand. So St. Pierre DOES stand, and that's playing it safe? lol, there's no pleasing some of you clowns. Like I said, go cry elsewhere. You backed the wrong horse. Suck it up.


Jab, jab, leg kick.

He makes Amir Khan look like Diego Corrales. :laugh:

Can't say I blame him, he's a safety-first fighter, and like I said, HE STILL CAN'T FINISH A HAM SANDWICH!


----------



## edlavis88

MagiK11 said:


> I was pretty surprised KOS didn't try to mix things up. I think GSP confused the hell out of kos after the first round and kos was completely lost since then.


To be fair its clear after round 2 Kos couldn't see anything out his right eye. Thats gonna make you be hesitant - but when the 5th round comes round he should have let it all go.


----------



## aerius

CamTheCaveman said:


> The way youve all been deacribing the fight, im disappointed. I expected josh to try and knock gsp from montreal to mexico and back. I really wanted him to back up his shit talking with a legendary KO


He tried. He failed. I can't remember who first mentioned it, but Kos basically has that big overhand right which he uses to KO people. GSP knew that and used his footwork and range control to make Kos miss every single time, it's a telegraphed punch and GSP had time to get out of the way or block it every time Kos threw the punch.


----------



## Bonnar426

Gee, what a surprise! GSP Haters bitching that the fight went the distance! You guys want to see a whole lot of violence and finishes then rent a Hector Echavarria film!


----------



## M_D

I was actually a little bored in this fight but everytime they showed Josh's eye i cheered. 

not to take anything from GSP, on the most jab heavy fight ever that they keep repeating,,,seams like i have seen bj do that a few times 

Super glad Gsp won but like i said not the best fight i have seen (not the worst either by any means)



Walker I will whoop yo ass if you quote me with a crying baby pic


but yeah whats next for GSP now?


----------



## Freelancer

Hehehe, this is like a fairy tale. The white knight has been challenged in his home town by the black knight, the white knight dominated the black one, the black one lost and changed(hallelujah) and recognized the supremacy of the white knight. They hugged, made up and went their own way.


----------



## GlasgowKiss

My mate who's on another forum is saying he saw people posting that Kos was ill before the fight. His strange interviews might make a bit more sense now.....


----------



## edlavis88

Anyone get the feeling Rogan doesn't like Jake Shields? He keeps saying he dont know whats next for GSP, maybe he should move to 185 cos there is no-one left at 170!!


----------



## Woodenhead

That was more satisfying than a KO - prolonging the pain - I was loving it when they showed Kos in between rounds, flinching & pulling away from all attempts to fix his vagina eye.


----------



## MagiK11

edlavis88 said:


> To be fair its clear after round 2 Kos couldn't see anything out his right eye. Thats gonna make you be hesitant - but when the 5th round comes round he should have let it all go.


I agree about the eye, obviously his eye swelling up was pretty much the end of his night but he definitely should have gone balls to the wall at the end. Take the risk because if you don't you'll lose anyways.


----------



## Roflcopter

:laugh: at the UFC trying to hype up a move to 185. No way GSPussy moves out of his comfort zone to fight guys where he doesn't have every physical advantage, and winning a safety-first decision would be much harder.

NO.Way.

Hell, Greasy tried to make every excuse not to move up when they were talking about him fighting Anderson. I bet if Anderson keeps looking like shit, all of a sudden GSP will grow a pair.


----------



## Spec0688

*Does GSP finally get some slack? ***SPOILERS****

Sure, another decision but one that he dominated on the feet, throwing hooks and whatnot. Kos got KO'ed against Paulo Thiago with a wicked uppercut, but that doesnt mean hes got a weak chin.

Kos took some punishment from Anthony Johnson while he was at WW, and he was considered to have the heaviest hands in the division at the time.


----------



## dafunguru

GSP vs. Silva would be the like Chuck Norris vs. Chuck Norris


----------



## Thelegend

omg are people still whining?! he didn't finish the fight but he made sure there is no doubt who the better fighter is


----------



## Danm2501

edlavis88 said:


> Anyone get the feeling Rogan doesn't like Jake Shields? He keeps saying he dont know whats next for GSP, maybe he should move to 185 cos there is no-one left at 170!!


You miss the Shields-Kampmann fight? He was all over Shields' grappling ability. Joe rates Shields incredibly highly.


----------



## CamTheCaveman

aerius said:


> He tried. He failed. I can't remember who first mentioned it, but Kos basically has that big overhand right which he uses to KO people. GSP knew that and used his footwork and range control to make Kos miss every single time, it's a telegraphed punch and GSP had time to get out of the way or block it every time Kos threw the punch.


You think he would have been training some combos to set up the over hand right, something to make them a little harder to see coming.


----------



## footodors

Well, that's 15 straight rounds of decisions from st. pierre.


----------



## M.C

Pfft, GSP couldn't even finish the fight.

Hell, Charlie Z finished his fight, thus Charlie Z > GSP.


----------



## attention

Roflcopter said:


> Jab, jab, leg kick.
> 
> He makes Amir Khan look like Diego Corrales. :laugh:
> 
> Can't say I blame him, he's a safety-first fighter, and like I said, HE STILL CAN'T FINISH A HAM SANDWICH!


Mock him all you want... at the end of the day, he's still the champ... and Kos looked a like douche with his thumb up his arse the entire fight.

Yep, GSP failed to stop him... but you forgot, Kos FAILED to stop GSP and got his arse handed to him on a platter.

For all your moaning, you cant take crap from him because he still is WINNING and that makes everyone else LOSERS... so there ... bleah!

everyone moans about 'gsp cant stop anyone'... well, no one can stop him EITHER...sheesh


----------



## js9234

No, he's just a dumb prick...


----------



## Walker

roflcopter you is hilarious even when crying that this fight didn't go your way. Sad you can't even have as much class as Kos did after the fight and that's saying a lot. Cry on baby.


For Kos- I give him big props for battling it out. I hate the guy but he lost sight out of the right eye early on and kept fighting and was (shock) classy in defeat. He gained some respect in this loss too bad others can't learn from same lesson.​


----------



## M_D

I laughed hard spitting out my energy drink when Joe said I think even the Judges can get this one right


----------



## BadHabitBabe

GlasgowKiss said:


> My mate who's on another forum is saying he saw people posting that Kos was ill before the fight. His strange interviews might make a bit more sense now.....


Could be... but maybe just an excuse because he knew he was in over his head and had trash talked himself into a corner?


----------



## John8204

M_D said:


> I was actually a little bored in this fight but everytime they showed Josh's eye i cheered.
> 
> not to take anything from GSP, on the most jab heavy fight ever that they keep repeating,,,seams like i have seen bj do that a few times
> 
> Super glad Gsp won but like i said not the best fight i have seen (not the worst either by any means)
> 
> 
> 
> Walker I will whoop yo ass if you quote me with a crying baby pic
> 
> 
> but yeah whats next for GSP now?












You don't like babies how bout kittens


----------



## astrallite

edlavis88 said:


> Anyone get the feeling Rogan doesn't like Jake Shields? He keeps saying he dont know whats next for GSP, maybe he should move to 185 cos there is no-one left at 170!!


Jake Shields is hopeless at striking and I'm not sure he can take Georges down. He's probably going to be staggering all night. It's gonna be like this fight except worse.


----------



## Thelegend

dafunguru said:


> GSP vs. Silva would be the like Chuck Norris vs. Chuck Norris


if that ever happened, the world would implode then explode.


----------



## TraMaI

Canadian Psycho said:


> Oh, damn, well if Kos took him down once, that MUST mean he was en route to winning the fight. Because, you know, that's what happened after Josh took GSP down in their first encounter. Oh, wait.
> 
> He stood with Josh, a known power puncher, who said that if GSP did stand, he'd have his KO victory. He begged for GSP to stand. So St. Pierre DOES stand, and that's playing it safe? lol, there's no pleasing some of you clowns. Like I said, go cry elsewhere. You backed the wrong horse. Suck it up.


First, I agree with you. I don't think it was a "Safety first" fight so much as a "GSP just doesn't have huge KO power" fight. He rocked Josh a few times, yes, but he also was smart enough to know he didn't rock him that badly and Josh could still catch him coming in.

Second, GSP didn't have a choice of standing with him or not. Kos won the wrestling. GSP took him down twice and Kos got RIGHT back up, Kos also totally stuffed the other, what, 3-4 attempts?


----------



## aerius

Woodenhead said:


> That was more satisfying than a KO - prolonging the pain - I was loving it when they showed Kos in between rounds, flinching & pulling away from all attempts to fix his vagina eye.


I would've loved to see a liver shot KO in the style of Bas Rutten, but I can't complain about a 5 round schooling that messed up Kos' face almost as bad as Fitch's.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

No, because it was still a UD you see. Georges needs to finish to be a true fighter.

/sarcasm

It's hypocrisy is what it is. The people who say GSP couldn't finish that fight are the same ones who claim Anderson wasn't at fault when Thales refused to engage with him, hence the 5 round decision. Well news flash. Koscheck refused to engage, so let's point a little bit of finger his way. I thought it was an excellent showing by GSP, and if people can't cut him slack after finally giving them what they wanted against a very dangerous opponent in Kos (or so it seemed going in), then to hell with them. GSP shouldn't be out to please those who cannot be pleased.


----------



## AlphaDawg

Get slack for what?


----------



## dafunguru

They should just make an interm belt until someone who's a real threat pops up...


----------



## deadmanshand

Roflcopter said:


> :laugh: at the UFC trying to hype up a move to 185. No way GSPussy moves out of his comfort zone to fight guys where he doesn't have every physical advantage, and winning a safety-first decision would be much harder.
> 
> NO.Way.
> 
> Hell, Greasy tried to make every excuse not to move up when they were talking about him fighting Anderson. I bet if Anderson keeps looking like shit, all of a sudden GSP will grow a pair.


Wow... what a bitter, pissy troll. One who still believes the greasing bs too. Fantastic. I thought your breed had all moved to Brock hate or Chael support.

On a different note, I loved seeing GSP dominate the stand up. He used the jab beautifully but mixed it up with kicks and other punches very well. Utilized the clinch to do some damage to Kosheck's legs. Overall a very satisfying end to a very good night of fights.


----------



## M_D

Walker said:


> For Kos- I give him big props for battling it out. I hate the guy but he lost sight out of the right eye early on and kept fighting and was (shock) classy in defeat. He gained some respect in this loss too bad others can't learn from same lesson.


Completely agree, 

I would of gained more respect though if KOS left it all on the line and went balls to the wall that last round.

p.s. still dont like him though ..but he did gain a little respect


----------



## limba




----------



## Finnsidious

TraMaI said:


> First, I agree with you. I don't think it was a "Safety first" fight so much as a "GSP just doesn't have huge KO power" fight. He rocked Josh a few times, yes, but he also was smart enough to know he didn't rock him that badly and Josh could still catch him coming in.
> 
> Second, GSP didn't have a choice of standing with him or not. Kos won the wrestling. GSP took him down twice and Kos got RIGHT back up, Kos also totally stuffed the other, what, 3-4 attempts?


Uh, won the wrestling? Well if you call 'not getting dominated' winning, then I guess Kos 'won' the wrestling. He did stuff more of GSP's takedowns than anyone else has, but he still got taken down several times, and only took GSP down once, how is that winning the wrestling?

I admit Kos did better wrestling than I thought he would, but he I don't think he won it, he just didn't lose it as badly.


----------



## Woodenhead

No matter what, haters will keep on hating.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

TraMaI said:


> First, I agree with you. I don't think it was a "Safety first" fight so much as a "GSP just doesn't have huge KO power" fight. He rocked Josh a few times, yes, but he also was smart enough to know he didn't rock him that badly and Josh could still catch him coming in.
> 
> Second, GSP didn't have a choice of standing with him or not. Kos won the wrestling. GSP took him down twice and Kos got RIGHT back up, Kos also totally stuffed the other, what, 3-4 attempts?


^^^ This. I shall call you Captain Great Post from now on!:thumb02:

On another note. Rogan's "what's left for GSP?" bit. Maybe that guy...Shilt, or Shilps, or something like that. White said he got the winner because Fitch refused to fight Koscheck if he won... But they could match those two (Fitch and Shields) for an actual top contender, now that Fitch doesn't have to beat up his love bunny!:thumb02:


----------



## GlasgowKiss

i have to laugh at Roach predicting a 'left hook KO'. Clearly a smokescreen for GSP's jab that lit up Koscheck's face all night.


----------



## rabakill

don't see GSP hanging with Silva, Chonnen or Belfort. Can't finish Koscheck, Fitch or Alves.... Silva is putting GSP to sleep. I love GSP but he just doesn't have the tools to beat those guys.


----------



## Bonnar426

I'm really not that interested in seeing GSP fight Jake Shields! Unlike Hendo, GSP is a complete fighter who stays busy, is mentally strong, and never runs out of gas. GSP would **** Sheilds in more ways then one! I think its time GSP made the move to MW.


----------



## edlavis88

All the people trolling simply dont understand the striking game at all. Not everyone has KO power, in fact very few at 170 are genuine KO artists - so if you dont have that KO power why risk swinging like a moron (like Kos was) when you know your jab can **** up your opponents face that badly!


----------



## Roflcopter

Canadian Psycho said:


> No, because it was still a UD you see. Georges needs to finish to be a true fighter.
> 
> /sarcasm
> 
> It's hypocrisy is what it is. The people who say GSP couldn't finish that fight are the same ones who claim Anderson wasn't at fault when Thales refused to engage with him, hence the 5 round decision. Well news flash. Koscheck refused to engage, so let's point a little bit of finger his way. I thought it was an excellent showing by GSP, and if people can't cut him slack after finally giving them what they wanted against a very dangerous opponent in Kos (or so it seemed going in), then to hell with them. GSP shouldn't be out to please those who cannot be pleased.


Koscheck was butt scooting every time Anderson got near him?

Koscheck dove at GSP's feet nearly 30 times?

:laugh:

Nice comparison bro. Kos stood in front of GSP throwing wild haymakers. Thales turtle and dove to the mat anytime Anderson got within 10 feet of him.

Anderson sucked in the Maia fight no doubt, but he's getting old and shot. GSP is in his frickin prime, ya know, the time when Anderson was putting everyone on his HL reel?


----------



## 420atalon

Woodenhead said:


> No matter what, haters will keep on hating.


----------



## DrFunk

Roflcopter said:


> Jab, jab, leg kick.
> 
> He makes Amir Khan look like Diego Corrales. :laugh:
> 
> Can't say I blame him, he's a safety-first fighter, and like I said, HE STILL CAN'T FINISH A HAM SANDWICH!



So you want GSP to just go full "Chris Leben" style and see who wins a slugfest? I hit you, you hit me, whoever can take a punch wins? Is that playing it not safe? That has to be the stupidest way to fight and GSP is nothing but that.


----------



## footodors

GSP vs. Sonnen would be sweet.


----------



## andersen85

Thelegend said:


> if that ever happened, the world would implode then explode.


the only thing that would explode would be GSPs jaw when Anderson's fist(s) hit it


----------



## dafunguru

YES, I'm a fan now. I used to think he was just a lay and pray guy because I never really payed attention to any of his fights but right at the hype and stuff for 124, I knew I was dead wrong. The guy is a phenomenal fighter, can't wait for the next fight. Wish I could say sorry to be honest :/


----------



## Finnsidious

Bonnar426 said:


> I'm really not that interested in seeing GSP fight Jake Shields! Unlike Hendo, GSP is a complete fighter who stays busy, is mentally strong, and never runs out of gas. GSP would **** Sheilds in more ways then one! I think its time GSP made the move to MW.


I agree, there is simply nothing left for him at WW, unless he wants to set some unbeatable record of consecutive title defenses by winning 5 or 6 more. Fight Silva already, don't waste our time pummeling Shields.


----------



## attention

Bonnar426 said:


> I'm really not that interested in seeing GSP fight Jake Shields! Unlike Hendo, GSP is a complete fighter who stays busy, is mentally strong, and never runs out of gas. GSP would **** Sheilds in more ways then one! I think its time GSP made the move to MW.


I disagree 
I think it would be an interesting fight.
Odds are Shields would get dominated in the standup... but thats nothing new for Shields... so who knows... Shields might be able to work something :confused02:


----------



## Rauno

limba said:


>


GSP, AKA's biggest enemy.


----------



## limba

Roflcopter said:


> :laugh: at the UFC trying to hype up a move to 185. No way GSPussy moves out of his comfort zone to fight guys where he doesn't have every physical advantage, and winning a safety-first decision would be much harder.
> 
> NO.Way.
> 
> Hell, Greasy tried to make every excuse not to move up when they were talking about him fighting Anderson. I bet if Anderson keeps looking like shit, all of a sudden GSP will grow a pair.


----------



## Fieos

GSP proved his domiance again tonight. People can whine about his game plans or that he won't move to 185. GSP fights at 170 and he is the best in the world at that weight class. I believe after tonight he is the undisputed P4P best. At the end of the day GSP is a champion and the rest are just bitter about it.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Koscheck's wrestling has improved since their first meeting for sure. GSP owned the striking though. Koscheck had no answer for that jab. GSP was much quicker and much more technical all night long.


----------



## Finnsidious

Roflcopter said:


> Koscheck was butt scooting every time Anderson got near him?
> 
> Koscheck dove at GSP's feet nearly 30 times?
> 
> :laugh:
> 
> Nice comparison bro. Kos stood in front of GSP throwing wild haymakers. Thales turtle and dove to the mat anytime Anderson got within 10 feet of him.
> 
> Anderson sucked in the Maia fight no doubt, but he's getting old and shot. GSP is in his frickin prime, ya know, the time when Anderson was putting everyone on his HL reel?


You know, in a way I was hoping Kos might win this fight, just so you could move on with your life.

It's sad when guys nuthug so hard they have no life, it's even sadder the way you exist only to try and turn every thread on MMA into a GSP hate thread. Just admit he could knock out Silva, then Rua, then Valasquez, and you'd still be saying he was no good, your bashing is just mindless.

Sucks to be you, my condolences on your never ending string of disappointments in your future, since GSP just keeps winning.


----------



## aerius

No, damnit! He did not throw a spinning back kick and he didn't breakdance after the win! 
I am completely disappointed! 

Speaking seriously, well done GSP, once again. I thought he great fight and a very smart fight, he used his striking and range control to take apart Kos on the feet and he pulls out a new weapon with his improved jab to give himself an even bigger reach & range advantage.


----------



## Roflcopter

Finnsidious said:


> You know, in a way I was hoping Kos might win this fight, just so you could move on with your life.
> 
> It's sad when guys nuthug so hard they have no life, it's even sadder the way you exist only to try and turn every thread on MMA into a GSP hate thread. Just admit he could knock out Silva, then Rua, then Valasquez, and you'd still be saying he was no good, your bashing is just mindless.
> 
> Sucks to be you, my condolences on your never ending string of disappointments in your future, since GSP just keeps winning.


Glass chin is a ticking time bomb to get blasted out of there, and NO ONE knows this better than GSPussy.


----------



## TraMaI

Finnsidious said:


> Uh, won the wrestling? Well if you call 'not getting dominated' winning, then I guess Kos 'won' the wrestling. He did stuff more of GSP's takedowns than anyone else has, but he still got taken down several times, and only took GSP down once, how is that winning the wrestling?
> 
> I admit Kos did better wrestling than I thought he would, but he I don't think he won it, he just didn't lose it as badly.


Short lesson for you:

Wrestling is a form of grappling that centers on being in control on top of an opponent and pinning them to the ground. GSP did nothing of the sort against Josh. Yes, he got TWO takedowns (OMG SO MANY!) but Josh was on the floor for probably a grand total of 30 seconds, if that. Josh also stuffed 4-5 takedowns, not counting the clinch grappling TD attempts on the cage. Georges cannot implement a wrestling gameplan because he cannot hold onto Koscheck and control him, therefore he loses the wrestling portion of this fight.


----------



## box

Time for Gsp/Anderson. Nothing left for him at his weight class. He completely tooled Kos on the feet. Thankfully Kos's wrestling was top notch, so we got to finally see Gsp strike again.


----------



## aerius

Rauno said:


> GSP, AKA's biggest enemy.


You gotta admit there's a nice symmetry to the beatings.


----------



## lazer

GSP is truly one of the most ...or if not best dynamic fighters to ever walk the planet. He has more tools in the MMA game than anyone IMO ....PERIOD. It is amazing that one man can be so versitile/dominating and very humble at the same time(i guess you know when you are good) ...and he's a great role modle for the sport in general for all the general public as a whole.

I like a lot of different fighters in MMA but I would have to say that this man is really on a level that many may never achieve overall...I guess he was born to find this talent ...for all of us to enjoy. 

this sport is very fortunate to have such an entertainer and a gentleman like GSP .


----------



## BadHabitBabe

Smart move for GSP to bring in Freddie Roach, sounds like it made a difference. Overall GSP is an amazing athlete and deserving of his title!


----------



## Yojimbo

Canadian Psycho said:


> It's hypocrisy is what it is. The people who say GSP couldn't finish that fight are the same ones who claim Anderson wasn't at fault when Thales refused to engage with him, hence the 5 round decision.


Ok, I agree in part but i'm still a bit disappointed that GSP didn't try harder for the finish. Josh was in front him the entire time, a "wounded animal" waiting to be finished. Thales would only fight anderson if Anderson jumped in his guard. Not quite the same in my opinion. 

I'm again disappointed with GSP's inability to finish a fight. I'm starting to believe he's afraid to hurt people. He appears so superior to all the competition but can't get people out.


----------



## edlavis88

I doubt this will stop the haters. GSP outstruck Alves and Fitch and now has completely tooled Koscheck but cos he didn't get a KO by mindlessly walking forward with his chin in the air like Chris Leben some will still say his stand up sucks. Some of the haters on here wouldn't know good technical boxing if it smacked them in the face (pun intended!)


----------



## js9234

IMO, GSP was the better wrestler tonight even though it ws a striking match 90% of the time.


TraMaI said:


> Short lesson for you:
> 
> Wrestling is a form of grappling that centers on being in control on top of an opponent and pinning them to the ground. GSP did nothing of the sort against Josh. Yes, he got TWO takedowns (OMG SO MANY!) but Josh was on the floor for probably a grand total of 30 seconds, if that. Josh also stuffed 4-5 takedowns, not counting the clinch grappling TD attempts on the cage. Georges cannot implement a wrestling gameplan because he cannot hold onto Koscheck and control him, therefore he loses the wrestling portion of this fight.


----------



## limba

TraMaI said:


> First, I agree with you. I don't think it was a "Safety first" fight so much as a "GSP just doesn't have huge KO power" fight. He rocked Josh a few times, yes, but he also was smart enough to know he didn't rock him that badly and Josh could still catch him coming in.
> 
> Second, GSP didn't have a choice of standing with him or not. Kos won the wrestling. GSP took him down twice and Kos got RIGHT back up, Kos also totally stuffed the other, what, 3-4 attempts?


Spoken like a master of wisdom!

Although i wouldn't say Kos won the wrestling!
It's just that Kos got back up really quickly. But apart from getting one TD and doing nothing with it, Kos didn't wrestle.
His strategy was - land the right hand! That's it!

Kos is an excellent wrestler, i would go almost as far as saying he's better than GSP.
Thing is - GSP's wrestling is 10x more efective than Kos' ore anyone's. GSP has the most effective Wrestling in the UFC.

And this fight also prove to me, that GSP is the smartest fighter in the UFC at this moment, has the best game plans and does the best game plan executions i've seen.

He beats his opponents, by fighting into their weaknesses and getting away from their strengths. Or fighting into his opponents' stregth, but having the advantage there.
HOW EASY IS THAT?!

He fought strikers - Hardy, Alves, BJ - he beat them using superior wrestling!
He fough wrestlers - Fitch...used superior stand-up to set-up his wrestling!
Koscheck - he went into this fight knowing it's pretty even when it comes to wrestling, but he has the better technical striking. In fact, Kos has poor striking. His punches are predictable.

So...GSP is smart. Maybe the smartest fighter atm.

That's why he is the champion and everyone else has to catch up!


----------



## TraMaI

box said:


> Time for Gsp/Anderson.  Nothing left for him at his weight class. He completely tooled Kos on the feet. Thankfully Kos's wrestling was top notch, so we got to finally see Gsp strike again.


I want to see GSP Shields first. Yes, GSP is probably going to destroy him 6 ways til Sunday, but I don't like leaving "What If?" match-ups hanging there when they can easily be solved.


----------



## rabakill

TraMaI said:


> Short lesson for you:
> 
> Wrestling is a form of grappling that centers on being in control on top of an opponent and pinning them to the ground. GSP did nothing of the sort against Josh. Yes, he got TWO takedowns (OMG SO MANY!) but Josh was on the floor for probably a grand total of 30 seconds, if that. Josh also stuffed 4-5 takedowns, not counting the clinch grappling TD attempts on the cage. Georges cannot implement a wrestling gameplan because he cannot hold onto Koscheck and control him, therefore he loses the wrestling portion of this fight.


this is funny. It wasn't a wrestling match, his plan wasn't to wrestle, his plan wasn't to keep Kos down. The takedown attempts were half-hearted because the sole purpose was to decrease the gap in the pocket when Kos started to open up on GSP. Very much the same as a clinch in boxing except you get points for a successful takedown. To say that he lost the wrestling portion is just ridiculous, GSP got two solid takedowns and controlled the clinch work while Kos got one takedown and was the one being controlled in the grappling. There was no aspect that Kos beat GSP in, he got taken down more times than he did to his opponent.


----------



## Rygu

The haters are the minority. GSP doesn't need any slack from anyone, all he does is win over and over again against everyone the UFC can round up to fight him.

In my opinion, Georges passed Matt Hughes as the most dominant WW in UFC history with this fight.


----------



## deadmanshand

TraMaI said:


> Short lesson for you:
> 
> Wrestling is a form of grappling that centers on being in control on top of an opponent and pinning them to the ground. GSP did nothing of the sort against Josh. Yes, he got TWO takedowns (OMG SO MANY!) but Josh was on the floor for probably a grand total of 30 seconds, if that. Josh also stuffed 4-5 takedowns, not counting the clinch grappling TD attempts on the cage. Georges cannot implement a wrestling gameplan because he cannot hold onto Koscheck and control him, therefore he loses the wrestling portion of this fight.


By the same token Kosheck did not win the wrestling either as he only achieved a single take down and George spent no more than 15 or 20 seconds on his back. The wrestling was a draw. Neither man really controlled the grappling. They nullified each other's wrestling. It's the only real way to judge it in my eyes.


----------



## TraMaI

js9234 said:


> IMO, GSP was the better wrestler tonight even though it ws a striking match 90% of the time.


I honestly do not see how anyone can say that. If he was it was by a very, very slim margin. He got two takedowns, Josh got one. Josh stuffed 4-5 of GSP's, GSP stuffed like 2 of Josh's...



> this is funny. It wasn't a wrestling match, his plan wasn't to wrestle, his plan wasn't to keep Kos down. The takedown attempts were half-hearted because the sole purpose was to decrease the gap in the pocket when Kos started to open up on GSP. Very much the same as a clinch in boxing except you get points for a successful takedown. To say that he lost the wrestling portion is just ridiculous.


Care to explain why GSP tried to hold Josh down when he got them then? If it was just a takedown to stop him from getting punched in the mouth then why not get it and stand back up? I realize it may not have been part of his gameplan , but he was still unsuccessful with it regardless.


Also, Deadmanshand, I can agree with that.


----------



## Woodenhead

About who's the better wrestler - I don't know; there was no wrestling in this match. heh


----------



## lazer

GSP always comes in with a game plan ...and it seems to be working pretty good for him ...!


----------



## Rauno

I doubt it. GSP has made the WW divison his b*tch but some people just can't be pleased.


----------



## rabakill

TraMaI said:


> I honestly do not see how anyone can say that. If he was it was by a very, very slim margin. He got two takedowns, Josh got one. Josh stuffed 4-5 of GSP's, GSP stuffed like 2 of Josh's...
> 
> 
> 
> Care to explain why GSP tried to hold Josh down when he got them then? If it was just a takedown to stop him from getting punched in the mouth then why not get it and stand back up? I realize it may not have been part of his gameplan , but he was still unsuccessful with it regardless.
> 
> 
> Also, Deadmanshand, I can agree with that.


he tried to hold Josh down because he wanted to get a RNC, it was an act of desperation that most fighters wouldn't try outright (ie. takedown to rnc) but GSP wanted to finish the fight so badly, this was fairly obvious during the fight, that's what the two takedowns were for in the last few minutes and why he was pressing Kos up against the cage, he didn't want to give up any chance of losing so he figured trying for a rnc was his best shot. And GSP only stuffed two because he completely dodged the other attempts, Rogan even commented on it.


----------



## deadmanshand

Roflcopter said:


> Glass chin is a ticking time bomb to get blasted out of there, and NO ONE knows this better than GSPussy.


You are truly delusional. The man has only even been rocked once in his career. Has only been finished by strikes once. From a fighter that pretty much everyone agrees can hit really hard. And this means he has a glass chin?

Your world is tiny and skewed. I know of several medications that could fix that. They make wonderful anti-psychotics these days to help people just like you.


----------



## Rauno

TraMaI said:


> I want to see GSP Shields first. Yes, GSP is probably going to destroy him 6 ways til Sunday, but I don't like leaving "What If?" match-ups hanging there when they can easily be solved.


I agree. Shields has definitely been a force and GSP has to beat him as well. So he can say that he truly has cleared out the division.


----------



## limba

After tonight, i give even less chances to Shields.

He has better grappling than GSP imo, but for his jits to work he needs to take GSP down...meaning he has to get in close.

That is suicidal after watching GSP's performance tonight!

Shields would eat those jabs even worse than Koscheck.
Kampmann had Shields in trouble with a couple of combinations. 

I think GSP would TKO Shields in the first 2 rounds!

But still, i wanna convince myself! So. Make it Dana!


----------



## leviticus

I always respected kos abilities. Always was annoyed by is arrogance. Tonight I gained respect for his heart. He stood in for five rounds, tenative and flat footed, knowing that he was getting/going to be owned. And a pure gentlement. Baaaah. I now like you kos. Kuddos.


----------



## Iuanes

TraMaI said:


> I honestly do not see how anyone can say that. If he was it was by a very, very slim margin. He got two takedowns, Josh got one. Josh stuffed 4-5 of GSP's, GSP stuffed like 2 of Josh's...


I don't see how stuffing takedowns but getting taken down more means you're winning the wrestling. I'm pretty sure thats not the way wrestling matches are scored.

It's like saying you hit me more but I blocked more strikes, so I'm the K1 champ.



TraMaI said:


> Care to explain why GSP tried to hold Josh down when he got them then? If it was just a takedown to stop him from getting punched in the mouth then why not get it and stand back up? I realize it may not have been part of his gameplan , but he was still unsuccessful with it regardless.



Why wouldn't GSP optimize the utility of a takedown to work something on top of Koscheck? Remember GSP's gameplanning = strength's vs weaknesses: KOS is no BJJ wizard off his back. Keeping him there is good.

And yes, the whole idea is to mix it up, if Kos ever planted or approached with power he would have to defend a takedown. If he guarded too much with his hands he would get taken down (or leg kicked).


----------



## ashokjr

TraMaI said:


> I honestly do not see how anyone can say that. If he was it was by a very, very slim margin.* He got two takedowns, Josh got one. Josh stuffed 4-5 of GSP's, GSP stuffed like 2 of Josh's...*
> 
> 
> 
> Care to explain why GSP tried to hold Josh down when he got them then? If it was just a takedown to stop him from getting punched in the mouth then why not get it and stand back up? I realize it may not have been part of his gameplan , but he was still unsuccessful with it regardless.
> 
> 
> Also, Deadmanshand, I can agree with that.


GSP got 4 take downs in total. Kos got 1. 
GSP Stuffed 3 take down attempts while Kos stuffed 5.

GSP effectiveness 44% while Kos is 25%.

I would say GSP won in wrestling too.

Proof: http://blog.fightmetric.com/2010/12/gsp-vs-koscheck-ii-fightmetric-report.html


----------



## 420atalon

ashokjr said:


> GSP got 4 take downs in total. Kos got 1.
> GSP Stuffed 3 take down attempts while Kos stuffed 5.
> 
> GSP effectiveness 44% while Kos is 25%.
> 
> I would say GSP won in wrestling too.
> 
> Proof: http://blog.fightmetric.com/2010/12/gsp-vs-koscheck-ii-fightmetric-report.html


Hahahaha

Significant strikes 110-16. I can't believe some people actually fell for the UFC hype and thought Koscheck was the better striker.


----------



## slapshot

I think GSP showed some power in his striking, he did nail kos with some very hard hooks and the way he worked the jab was tight, looked to me like he would paw with one or two light jabs then fire off a strong one and he caught kos with most of them and even stunned him a few times.

About the wrestling, kos was defending 98% of the time they locked up. wrestling in mma has nothing to do with pinning your opponent, IMO its simply about gaining a advantageous position to work off of. *Clearly GSP won the wrestling as it applys to MMA in my eyes at least.*

I felt like GSP did just what he said he did and thats to keep the fight in Jackson's words "all the way in or all the way out." It was the way GSP used his reach that really sunk kos, he just could not get close enough as much as he needed to to throw the bombs.

Very dominant fight by GSP after he beats shields I think he should STAY WHERE HE"S AT. That reach he enjoys would be gone if he moved up and I think it would not be the best weight for him to fight at most of his advantages would be gone and they do make a difference if a fighter is as technical as GSP, IDK.


----------



## kay_o_ken

ashokjr said:


> GSP got 4 take downs in total. Kos got 1.
> GSP Stuffed 3 take down attempts while Kos stuffed 5.
> 
> GSP effectiveness 44% while Kos is 25%.
> 
> I would say GSP won in wrestling too.
> 
> Proof: http://blog.fightmetric.com/2010/12/gsp-vs-koscheck-ii-fightmetric-report.html


yeah but kos got back right up every time, gsp couldnt though


id have to give the slight edge in wrestling to koscheck


----------



## Iuanes

slapshot said:


> Very dominant fight by GSP after he beats shields I think he should STAY WHERE HE"S AT. That reach he enjoys would be gone if he moved up and I think it would not be the best weight for him to fight at most of his advantages would be gone and they do make a difference if a fighter is as technical as GSP, IDK.


Well that's the whole point of moving up after you've dominated an entire weight class of fighters. It isn't to be able to cruise on your natural abilities but to be challenged by other's abilities that might put you at a disadvantage. If anything you've just stated why GSP SHOULD move up to middleweight.


----------



## slapshot

kay_o_ken said:


> yeah but kos got back right up every time, gsp couldnt though
> 
> 
> id have to give the slight edge in wrestling to koscheck


Couldn't is a big stretch IMO that td came at the very end of the round and I remember GSP looking at the clock and then just putting kos in full guard and riding the 15 seconds out, to me thats not cant thats why bother at that point in time.

Kos never got another one and his only td he had to fight like mad to get and he did nothing with it at all. How anyone can say he won the wrestling off of one td I just dont understand the train of thought.



Iuanes said:


> Well that's the whole point of moving up after you've dominated an entire weight class of fighters. It isn't to be able to cruise on your natural abilities but to be challenged by other's abilities that might put you at a disadvantage. If anything you've just stated why GSP SHOULD move up to middleweight.


If thats the truth why stop at MW why not fight at heavyweight? Obviously because it puts him at a disadvantage just fighting at that weight. It may not be as extreme of a drop off but all the same I think his frame is best suited for where he's at now.


----------



## limba

Roflcopter said:


> Koscheck was butt scooting every time Anderson got near him?
> 
> Koscheck dove at GSP's feet nearly 30 times?
> 
> :laugh:
> 
> Nice comparison bro. Kos stood in front of GSP throwing wild haymakers. Thales turtle and dove to the mat anytime Anderson got within 10 feet of him.
> 
> *Anderson sucked in the Maia fight no doubt, but he's getting old and shot*. *GSP is in his frickin prime,* *ya know, the time when Anderson was putting everyone on his HL reel?*


Silva's prime is his UFC career! Starting 2006, when he was 31 yrs old.
Back when he was 26-29 he was beating guys like: Lee Murray, Jeremy Horn, Stiebling, Otsuka or Dos Anjos...and *losing* fights to Chonan and Takase!

So wich "prime" are we talkin about here?!



Roflcopter said:


> *Glass chin* is a ticking time bomb to get blasted out of there, and NO ONE knows this better than GSPussy.


It amazes me on how much you c**p you can talk!

Glass chin?! Where the hell did you pull this out from?!
If you are reffering to his loss vs Serra - he wasn't rocked by a punch to his chin. Serra hit him with a right to his head. Rewatch the fight pls!

ON THE THREAD: GSP won't get any slack because there will always be those who can't stand him and respect his work athic and deducation!

St. Pierre could beat his next 5 opponents in the first round and still there would be those who would discredit him.

Haters...
A gift to them:


----------



## footodors

If GSP couldn't finish a one eyed Koschek, what hope is there for him finishing anyone?


----------



## limba

footodors said:


> If GSP couldn't finish a one eyed Koschek, what hope is there for him finishing anyone?


Kos has only been T/KO'd once: by Paulo Thiago...when he made (imo) a huge mistake, trying to set up his right hand.

Other than that, no one has T/KO'd Kos. He is tough, no matter what haters say. The liks of Alves, Sanchez, Daley, Rumble or Lytle have failed in stopping him.

It says something


----------



## John8204

Roflcopter said:


> Glass chin is a ticking time bomb to get blasted out of there, and NO ONE knows this better than GSPussy.












You are seriously becoming my favorite poster


----------



## ArcherCC

Kos Called out GSP to stand and bang with him, GSP stood, banged, and beat the ever living heck out of Kos. So what if he didn't finish him, it was a very , and i mean very clean win. 

So yea he deserves some slack.


----------



## zarny

Once again GSP proves he's in a class by himself @ WW. 

He's simply too well-rounded. Koscheck, Hardy, Alves, Penn, Fitch...all with the same deer in the headlights look. 

Knowing but not knowing what is about to come at them. Defend the takedown get punched in the face; raise your hands you end up on your back. 

GSP's opponents are so confused not attacking becomes plan A. And clearly it's not very effective.

I hope Shields is next because I think his standup is even worse than Koscheck's. Jake's face will double as a speed bag unless he can take GSP down.


----------



## marcthegame

Slack for what? GSp was a great striker before Serra dropped him. It's great he went back to it but his lack of knock out power or going for the kill shot is still there. If Anderson silva was picking apart an opponent like that a knock out will follow.


----------



## UFC_OWNS

marc you are the most biased annoying fan i have ever seen, no matter what happens you always plug anderson is the best every1 else suck ass, we get that he is good but your biasism is annoying.


----------



## dsmjrv

who else thinks that tonight's Alvez would have beaten tonight's GSP... assuming they fought the same type of fight

GSP looked Great, but that jab would have hit alot more air vs Alvez

plus GSP can not take the punishment that howard took


----------



## marcthegame

UFC_OWNS said:


> marc you are the most biased annoying fan i have ever seen, no matter what happens you always plug anderson is the best every1 else suck ass, we get that he is good but your biasism is annoying.


explain u guys make GSp seem like superman, hell i can admit anderson would get his ass kick by fedor or jose aldo. Hell i'll even say hector Lamboard and vitor will give anderson trouble. But GSP fans seem to think GSP is the greatest ever. U will come to hate GSP if your from Canada and you hear shit like GSP and Wayne Gretzky in the same sentence.


----------



## grnlt

*GSP needs to FINISH*

Look I like GSP, so before you start callin me some kind of hater realize that. But hes nothing more than someone who fights not to lose. Yeah ok so your 21-2 and want to be called the best pound or pound yet you cant finish someone in over 2 years thats absurd.

My point is if Fedor, Cain V, Anderson Silva, Jose Aldo, Shogun...any top fighter had an opponent with basically one eye after the first round they would have finished. Instead GSP played it safe. Again, I realize he walks out with another "dominating DECISION" but come on GSP please finish a fight before you retire


----------



## marcthegame

grnlt said:


> Look I like GSP, so before you start callin me some kind of hater realize that. But hes nothing more than someone who fights not to lose. Yeah ok so your 21-2 and want to be called the best pound or pound yet you cant finish someone in over 2 years thats absurd.
> 
> My point is if Fedor, Cain V, Anderson Silva, Jose Aldo, Shogun...any top fighter had an opponent with basically one eye after the first round they would have finished. Instead GSP played it safe. Again, I realize he walks out with another "dominating DECISION" but come on GSP please finish a fight before you retire


I'm probably gonig to get hated on for saying this but i do agree. GSP is a great fighter no one at WW poses a threat to him right now. Hell he was beating the shit out of Koscheck why not go the extra mile and go for the KO?


----------



## Intermission

I don't think a finish is so important honestly. Like you said his victories are DOMINANT. There is never a question if GSP won or not in his fights, no one ever comes close to beating him, I personally don't see a problem with it. If you were in his shoes, you would want to make sure you DON'T LOSE. If that is dominating a fight or finishing it, you do what you have to do.


----------



## marcthegame

Intermission said:


> I don't think a finish is so important honestly. Like you said his victories are DOMINANT. There is never a question if GSP won or not in his fights, no one ever comes close to beating him, I personally don't see a problem with it. If you were in his shoes, you would want to make sure you DON'T LOSE. If that is dominating a fight or finishing it, you do what you have to do.


Yes but fighters not named GSP who take the same route gets hating on. Gray Maynard, Jon fitch, etc. If you are that dominate and wining that badly you should finish. GSP is not like any of the guys i have listed he is better and has the ability to finish. I don't understand why he does not when he is capable of. UFC Owns this is for you, for example anderson silva people expect him to finish his fights when he does not they hate on him. He Dances and shit but we all know he is capable of fishing. Would you be happy if he does not finish and just throws jabs and feelers for 4 mins without the dancing?


----------



## UFC_OWNS

if gsp really wanted to he could finish these fights by unleashing but then that would be stupid because he could get caught


----------



## UFC_OWNS

and silva dances gsp at least throws jabs and acts like he is in a chess game fight


----------



## Jeter Sucks

dsmjrv said:


> who else thinks that tonight's Alvez would have beaten tonight's GSP... assuming they fought the same type of fight
> 
> GSP looked Great, but that jab would have hit alot more air vs Alvez
> 
> plus GSP can not take the punishment that howard took


Alves wouldn't have looked the same against GSP. In their match, practically everytime Alves kicked, GSP took him down until he rarely threw any kicks. Without his kicks, Alves wasn't nearly as dangerous. GSP is great at making his opponents gunshy and tentative.


----------



## Toxic

dsmjrv said:


> who else thinks that tonight's Alvez would have beaten tonight's GSP... assuming they fought the same type of fight
> 
> GSP looked Great, but that jab would have hit alot more air vs Alvez
> 
> plus GSP can not take the punishment that howard took


GSP would not have taken the punishment Howard took. Defensively Howard did little and he just let Alves out work him while throwing wild haymakers.


----------



## grnlt

My thing is if you are so GREAT and are SO dominant why not finish? If i was a canadien and worshiped him i could see being happy with GSP just winning. I know if I was so great and wasnt completely finishing people off id be pissed.

You look at all the champs from the current and past they finish. Liddell finished all the time, shogun is a finisher, Hughes when he was dominant he finished, A Silva finishes when the opponent doesnt run from him, Cain finsihes, BJ Penn finishes...just something I think is lacking from GSP thats al, not a hater one bit


----------



## Intermission

marcthegame said:


> Yes but fighters not named GSP who take the same route gets hating on. Gray Maynard, Jon fitch, etc. If you are that dominate and wining that badly you should finish. GSP is not like any of the guys i have listed he is better and has the ability to finish. I don't understand why he does not when he is capable of. UFC Owns this is for you, for example anderson silva people expect him to finish his fights when he does not they hate on him. He Dances and shit but we all know he is capable of fishing. Would you be happy if he does not finish and just throws jabs and feelers for 4 mins without the dancing?


People think too much from a fans perspective rather then a FIGHTERS perspective or even a CHAMPIONS perspective. Okay your job is to WIN not finish. Dana isn't going to take his belt away for not finishing, but it will go bye bye if he loses. 

Think of it like this, finishing a fight does require a fighter to take a risk, increasing the possibility of losing. Lets look at a VERY well known fight. Sonnen vs Silva, if Sonnen would have just played it safe for the last 2 minutes we would be the champion (all steroids aside) but no he pushed for a finish and it costed him the fight. It is a risk many people would rather pass on taking.

Gray Maynard has a title shot and Jon Fitch is IMO the #2 WW in the world, they are smart not boring.


----------



## slapshot

Toxic said:


> GSP would not have taken the punishment Howard took. Defensively Howard did little and he just let Alves out work him while throwing wild haymakers.


I thought Howard helped Alves look improved with his poor defense as well. Did he improve? sure I think he did but I still dont see his improvements changing the outcome of a fight with Fitch or GSP.


----------



## marcthegame

UFC_OWNS said:


> and silva dances gsp at least throws jabs and acts like he is in a chess game fight


Yes but how come GSP does not take a chance, hell Koscheck could not see out of that eye and GSp was landing at will. I don't see y GSp could not land a jab,kick then a knockout blow. The Jab kick combo was working fine.


----------



## Intermission

marcthegame said:


> Yes but how come GSP does not take a chance, hell Koscheck could not see out of that eye and GSp was landing at will. I don't see y GSp could not land a jab,kick then a knockout blow. The Jab kick combo was working fine.


Read my post bro.


----------



## Indestructibl3

Believe it or not, GSP is ALWAYS looking to finish, but against top guys sometimes it's a little difficult. It's all well and good for us to criticise, but he really is facing top guys. Give GSP some credit.


----------



## marcthegame

Intermission said:


> People think too much from a fans perspective rather then a FIGHTERS perspective or even a CHAMPIONS perspective. Okay your job is to WIN not finish. Dana isn't going to take his belt away for not finishing, but it will go bye bye if he loses.
> 
> Think of it like this, finishing a fight does require a fighter to take a risk, increasing the possibility of losing. Lets look at a VERY well known fight. Sonnen vs Silva, if Sonnen would have just played it safe for the last 2 minutes we would be the champion (all steroids aside) but no he pushed for a finish and it costed him the fight. It is a risk many people would rather pass on taking.
> 
> Gray Maynard has a title shot and Jon Fitch is IMO the #2 WW in the world, they are smart not boring.


Every fighters looks to finish, all the greats though it boggles my mind how gsp does not. I do consider him great but i don't understand why he does not finish like aldo,silva,fedor. Hell if fedor was not fedor and played it save he still would be undeafted instead he knocked a bjj guys down and went for the kill. He he had knock him down and waited he still would be without a lost.


----------



## Intermission

marcthegame said:


> Every fighters looks to finish, all the greats though it boggles my mind how gsp does not. I do consider him great but i don't understand why he does not finish like aldo,silva,fedor. Hell if fedor was not fedor and played it save he still would be undeafted instead he knocked a bjj guys down and went for the kill. He he had knock him down and waited he still would be without a lost.


You just proved me right... If Fedor fought like GSP in the fight KNOWING his legacy was on the line he wouldn't have lost.

It is different when your fighting for a belt then defending it. Which is exactly why we will see a more cautious Shogun vs Rashad.


----------



## grnlt

marcthegame said:


> Every fighter looks to finish, all the greats though it boggles my mind how gsp does not. I do consider him great but i don't understand why he does not finish like aldo,silva,fedor. Hell if fedor was not fedor and played it save he still would be undeafted instead he knocked a bjj guys down and went for the kill. He he had knock him down and waited he still would be without a lost.


Exactly what I said...GSP is a great TALENT and a great fighter.to me the top guys finish, no way a guy lasts 4 more rounds with fedor aldo, silva, shogun with 1 eye. I think is just ridiculous to claim someone is one of the best pound for pound fighters when they havent finished someone in almost 3 years.


----------



## AlphaDawg

Kudos to Koscheck and his camp for having the worst gameplan I've ever seen.

You can't just throw the occasional overhand right and hope for the best. He was clearly winning in the wrestling and should have used it alot more. You'd think after stuffing GSP's takedowns and then taking him down in the very 1st round would make them realize that.


----------



## marcthegame

Intermission said:


> You just proved me right... If Fedor fought like GSP in the fight KNOWING his legacy was on the line he wouldn't have lost.
> 
> It is different when your fighting for a belt then defending it. Which is exactly why we will see a more cautious Shogun vs Rashad.


what is your point, there is a different between fedor and most fighters and gsp. I could honestly say since he lost to serra he has played it safe. Shogun will be shogun was evans he will not play anything safe. If there is a knockout shogun will take it in a heartbeat. Main difference is guys like shogun,rampage,silva,fedor, they are great strikers who take risks for big rewards. GSP something mentally is preventing him from doing so. This fight proved it was he afraid of checking a wild haymaker from Koscheck? He was wining the stand up game by a mile. A fighter will take risk no matter one because most guys believe they can knock the hell out of their opponent.


----------



## TheNinja

GSP shoulda finshed this fight tonight. Anyone that watched it could tell Kos couldn't see anything out of his left eye and was just winging punches, not even knowing where GSP was. I was sitting in my living room laughing at Kos, I kept waiting for a headkick, or a hard left hook but it never came. 

I don't blame GSP, he beat the living crap out of Kos with his Boxing skills tonight. He threw alot more then just a jab, just nothing to really finish the fight.

After watching Sonnen lose a fight after dominating for 5 rds, I'm sure some fighters know they can lose at any second against top competition.

GSP fought great, but he just didn't take any chances for the finish.


----------



## limba

grnlt said:


> Look I like GSP, so before you start callin me some kind of hater realize that. But hes nothing more than someone who fights not to lose. *Yeah ok so your 21-2 and want to be called the best pound or pound yet you cant finish someone in over 2 years thats absurd.*


No.
He wants to do his job right and win fights.
Winning fights guarantees him a high standard in life, not going all out to please 50 haters who don't appreciate an MMA artist!
Watch GSP's interview at the pres conference after the fight. He always goes in a fight with a game plan and tries to execute the plan as good as he can.
that's the difference between GSP ans the majorit of the fighters.
He is smart enough to stick to a plan.
Many are dumb enough to let it all out an dlose, because they get to emotional in the fights.

that's why he's the champion for so long and others can only dream atm of beating him.[/QUOTE]



grnlt said:


> My point is if Fedor, Cain V, Anderson Silva, Jose Aldo, Shogun...any top fighter had an opponent with basically one eye after the first round they would have finished. Instead GSP played it safe.


And yet again you are so wrong.
You're assuming facts, but don't have anything to back you up.
All we have to do is, wait for Fedor, Aldo, Cain...and the others to fight a guy with one eye so that you can back your statements up.

Did Aldo finnish Faber after basically destroying his left leg?! faber couldn't even stand, that's how bad it was for him. Aldo could have finnished him, on the feet and in the crucifix and didn't. Why is that?
Did Silva finnish Maia when he got him in all sort of trouble?!

The fighters you brought into discussion have a bigger killer instinct than GSP. I'll admit to that. They have their style that separates them from the others.
GSP is more about gameplans and executions. If you haven't figured that out by now, you've been watching his fights with your eyes closed. 
And it's not like he didn't wanna finnish the fight. He said it himself. But Kos is a very tough guy to finnish. 



grnlt said:


> Again, I realize he walks out with another "*dominating DECISION*" but come on GSP please finish a fight before you retire


^^
Don't worry.
He will.


----------



## slapshot

marcthegame said:


> Yes but how come GSP does not take a chance, hell Koscheck could not see out of that eye and GSp was landing at will. I don't see y GSp could not land a jab,kick then a knockout blow. The Jab kick combo was working fine.


Because taking chances is stupid, he dose look to finish but he's not going to open himself up to be countered and possibly ko'd.

It also speaks to his respect for Kos's hands, so his eye was closed big deal that doesn't take power off kos's punches.


----------



## rezin

If you look at lighter fighters 170 and below, the top fights normally do end up in a decsion unless a submission or something substantial is created. Once you hit the bigger weights you have much more power in your punches. 

A head is a head regardless of weight attached to the body, the higher you go up the easier the knockout is. 

Also why attack with reckless abandon if your oppenent is backtracking, that is the easiest way to get KOd. If anyone needed to go on the offensive it was Kos and there is the true gunshy fighter of the night.


----------



## marcthegame

slapshot said:


> Because taking chances is stupid, he dose look to finish but he's not going to open himself up to be countered and possibly ko'd.
> 
> It also speaks to his respect for Kos's hands, so his eye was closed big deal that doesn't take power off kos's punches.


Please tell me that matt serra had nothing to do with GSp playing it safe from now on? I think GSP does not want to take the chance because of that fight. U guys call it smart but i call it playing it safe. Facts are GSP is a better striker than people think, he should it tonight but yet he played it safe. GSP is fast enough to dodge a wild haymaker from koscheck and catch him with a ko blow.


----------



## limba

dsmjrv said:


> who else thinks that tonight's Alvez would have beaten tonight's GSP... assuming they fought the same type of fight
> 
> GSP looked Great, but that jab would have hit alot more air vs Alvez
> 
> plus GSP can not take the punishment that howard took


Nobody!
No matter what Thiago Alves would show up, GSP would have the perfect game plan to dominate him.
You don't seem to get it. GSP would fight differently against Alves. Not the same way he fough Kos. And this goes for Alves also. Never ever ever, not in his sweetest dream would Alves try and fight against GSP the same way he fought against Howard. The result would be -------> watch the GSP-Thiago Alves fight!

And you made me laugh about GSP being able to take punishement. 
Why?! Would that be a sign of him bing a badass or a tough dude!? The objective in MMA is winning, without taking too much punishement if possible. It's not a contest on who can take the baddest beating and tell the story after.



marcthegame said:


> Every fighters looks to finish, all the greats though it boggles my mind how gsp does not. I do consider him great but *i don't understand why he does not finish like aldo,silva,fedor*. Hell if fedor was not fedor and played it save he still would be undeafted instead he knocked a bjj guys down and went for the kill. He he had knock him down and waited he still would be without a lost.


Nore will you ever understand.
He is not Aldo. He is not Fedor. He is not Silva!
He is Georges St. Pierre. You can't ask him to forget his training, his camps, his gameplans, just to try and go for the kill. And for the 1000th time - it's not like he didn't try: against Kos, Hardy or Alves. He did. but it didn't happen.

LOL at giving Fedor as an example. 
You said it yourself. He LOST!!!
I don't think fighters get into this sport so that they can LOSE!
WINNING is the most important thing!
Didn't you get that part yet?
Escuse my sarcasm.



grnlt said:


> Exactly what I said...GSP is a great TALENT and a great fighter.to me the top guys finish, no way a guy lasts 4 more rounds with fedor aldo, silva, shogun with 1 eye. *I think is just ridiculous to claim someone is one of the best pound for pound fighters when they havent finished someone in almost 3 years.*


No. It's not.

He has beaten in dominant fashion everyone he has fought in the last 4 years! TOTAL DOMINANCE! In the stand-up, on the ground, wrestling or grappling. 
You want GSP to KO someone just to consider him one of the best P4P fighters?! Is that what you are saying?!

It's getting more and more ridiculous reading your posts.
At least for me.
Sorry sir.


----------



## SigFig

marcthegame said:


> Please tell me that matt serra had nothing to do with GSp playing it safe from now on? I think GSP does not want to take the chance because of that fight. U guys call it smart but i call it playing it safe. Facts are GSP is a better striker than people think, he should it tonight but yet he played it safe. GSP is fast enough to dodge a wild haymaker from koscheck and catch him with a ko blow.


I'm a GSP apologist admittedly... but I think you guys are getting caught up in semantics. Playing it safe IS playing it "smart". It's a worn down argument at this point. If you're a great striker, GSP will wrestle f*ck you to a W, and if you are a great wrestler (serious kudos to Kos), GSP will out strike you... Until a more rounded mma fighter comes along, people are gonna have to deal with GSP holding the WW belt. 

It's just the reality of the situation.



HTML:


As a bonus, GSP by decision is free money, for all of the betting folks.  I mean, even GSP's biggest haters should be laying coin on that sh*t, right???  :)


----------



## slapshot

SigFig said:


> I'm a GSP apologist admittedly... but I think you guys are getting caught up in semantics. Playing it safe IS playing it "smart". It's a worn down argument at this point. If you're a great striker, GSP will wrestle f*ck you to a W, and if you are a great wrestler (serious kudos to Kos), GSP will out strike you... Until a more rounded mma fighter comes along, people are gonna have to deal with GSP holding the WW belt.
> 
> It's just the reality of the situation.
> 
> 
> 
> HTML:
> 
> 
> As a bonus, GSP by decision is free money, for all of the betting folks.  I mean, even GSP's biggest haters should be laying coin on that sh*t, right???  :)


Nice post sig +rep


----------



## marcthegame

SigFig said:


> I'm a GSP apologist admittedly... but I think you guys are getting caught up in semantics. Playing it safe IS playing it "smart". It's a worn down argument at this point. If you're a great striker, GSP will wrestle f*ck you to a W, and if you are a great wrestler (serious kudos to Kos), GSP will out strike you... Until a more rounded mma fighter comes along, people are gonna have to deal with GSP holding the WW belt.
> 
> It's just the reality of the situation.
> 
> 
> 
> HTML:
> 
> 
> As a bonus, GSP by decision is free money, for all of the betting folks.  I mean, even GSP's biggest haters should be laying coin on that sh*t, right???  :)


Well people consider me a GSP hater but i decided to pick koscheck because somebody had to. I knew gsp was going to win i just like the risk. Plus which statement is true? GSp has no knockout power or Koshcheck has a great chin lol?


----------



## limba

SigFig said:


> I'm a GSP apologist admittedly... but I think you guys are getting caught up in semantics. Playing it safe IS playing it "smart". It's a worn down argument at this point. If you're a great striker, GSP will wrestle f*ck you to a W, and if you are a great wrestler (serious kudos to Kos), GSP will out strike you... Until a more rounded mma fighter comes along, people are gonna have to deal with GSP holding the WW belt.
> 
> It's just the reality of the situation.


LOL I agree.

Figting safe = Fighting smart!
Fighting unsafe = Fighting stupid!

EASY, isn't it?! (not for some it seems...)

He is the best atm, no matter what haters say.
He has the right weapons to beat anyone: wrestler, grappler or striker. He mixes it up like no other atm. Because he is SMART, talented, gifted, skilled and has excellent work ethic and dedication.

Some just can't resist on hating him!:sarcastic12:


----------



## SigFig

marcthegame said:


> Well people consider me a GSP hater but i decided to pick koscheck because somebody had to. I knew gsp was going to win i just like the risk. Plus which statement is true? GSp has no knockout power or Koshcheck has a great chin lol?


I had Kos inside the distance, but hedged with GSP. Nothing wrong with a bet on Kos. He showed tonight that, although he may portray a douche, he is a cagey fighter...


----------



## Woodenhead

limba said:


> LOL I agree.
> 
> Figting safe = Fighting smart!
> Fighting unsafe = Fighting stupid!
> 
> EASY, isn't it?! (not for some it seems...)
> 
> He is the best atm, no matter what haters say.
> He has the right weapons to beat anyone: wrestler, grappler or striker. He mixes it up like no other atm. Because he is SMART, talented, gifted, skilled and has excellent work ethic and dedication.
> 
> Some just can't resist on hating him!:sarcastic12:


Amen, brother. :thumbsup:


----------



## ptw

marcthegame said:


> Yes but how come GSP does not take a chance, hell Koscheck could not see out of that eye and GSp was landing at will. I don't see y GSp could not land a jab,kick then a knockout blow. The Jab kick combo was working fine.


I feel you on that. I honestly thought GSP could've finished the fight in the 4th and 5th if he REALLY wanted to. Then again, he couldn't seem to keep Kos down so maybe Kos was a lot more dangerous than he looked. We don't know what GSP's gameplan was exactly, I doubt it was "keep the fight standing and win by jabbing him in the face the whole fight." I'm sure he was looking for the finish, just not worth throwing the fight and getting flash ko'd, how many times have we seen that happen?


----------



## SigFig

ptw said:


> I feel you on that. I honestly thought GSP could've finished the fight in the 4th and 5th if he REALLY wanted to. Then again, he couldn't seem to keep Kos down so maybe Kos was a lot more dangerous than he looked. We don't know what GSP's gameplan was exactly, I doubt it was "keep the fight standing and win by jabbing him in the face the whole fight." I'm sure he was looking for the finish, just not worth throwing the fight and getting flash ko'd, how many times have we seen that happen?


See this is where it gets tough... GSP went for the back (and presumably, an RNC) when he had the chance, but Kos was game as f*ck and negated the attempt. So GSP re-set the fight as a standing advantage in the center of the octagon. This is combatant chess folks...


----------



## No_Mercy

What we witnessed was a very highly tactical battle. 

KOS surprised everybody by showing that he did indeed tweek his game and has sealed up some holes. As Roach said he does have tendencies. I had a feeling GSP was going to change up his game plan again. 

He shut everybody by actually standing and outstriking him. Most importantly he literally "shut" KOS' mouth and eye. 

I was VERY IMBRESSED with his performance. =)


----------



## limba

marcthegame said:


> Well people consider me a GSP hater but i decided to pick koscheck because somebody had to. I knew gsp was going to win i just like the risk. Plus which statement is true? GSp has no knockout power or Koshcheck has a great chin lol?





marcthegame said:


> Well people consider me a GSP hater but i decided to pick koscheck because somebody had to. I knew gsp was going to win i just like the risk. Plus which statement is true? GSp has no knockout power or Koshcheck has a great chin lol?


LMAO! 
You are making this easy!

You are using your own arguments against yourself.

So: you knew GSP would win, but you picked Kos because someone had to?!!

Isn't that the same thing as GSP knowing he is better than Kos when it comes to boxing, but instead he would wannt to stay and bang with him, knowing that the chances of him losing would be much higher this way?! 
Because someone would have to take that risk and bang with Kos, right?! No other reason...

But you...you just like the risk.

Well...Trust me. Everytime GSP fights in the cage, he exposes himself to a lot of risks.
He took a lot of risks in this fight also.
The HUGE difference is: GSP is taking *calculated risks*. He analyses every aspect of the game, including the X-factor (unknown), the "what if's?". 
He fights and implements his game plans based on logical arguments.
That's why GSP is a champion.

PS: Koscheck is hard to finnish and GSP doesn't have the same KO power, like Kos, Alves, Rubmble or Daley.

Technically though, i think he is TOP 3 at WW.
And he is *SMARTER* than all of those guys!


----------



## marcthegame

SigFig said:


> See this is where it gets tough... GSP went for the back (and presumably, an RNC) when he had the chance, but Kos was game as f*ck and negated the attempt. So GSP re-set the fight as a standing advantage in the center of the octagon. This is combatant chess folks...


No its not, GSP mess up his eye to the point where kos was useless. GSP outwrestle him the first fight by a mile, was still the better striker then. GSP could have knockout him out then and tonight but he did not y. Is it playing it safe or he can't do it or scared to? Realistically u guys call it playing safe but by gsp playing it safe and kos getting aggressive and swinging for the fences , that theory of playing safe is out the door. Facts are a knockout ends the fight instantly and puts u in a safer place. GSP could have easily done it but did not.


----------



## No_Mercy

marcthegame said:


> No its not, GSP mess up his eye to the point where kos was useless. GSP outwrestle him the first fight by a mile, was still the better striker then. GSP could have knockout him out then and tonight but he did not y. Is it playing it safe or he can't do it or scared to? Realistically u guys call it playing safe but by gsp playing it safe and kos getting aggressive and swinging for the fences , that theory of playing safe is out the door. Facts are a knockout ends the fight instantly and puts u in a safer place. GSP could have easily done it but did not.


Good point. 

It has everything to do with physicality and the way you train your muscles. GSP is very lean and athletic. Most knockout artists are compact and packed with muscles. Also GSP doesn't overcommit as he said in the press conference. It leaves one open to counters. Moreso with the former. It would be his sole "weakness" if you can even call it that. But imagine, if GSP did actually KO people left and right that would make him pretty unstoppable as he's already up there in the P4P list.

That's what makes the fighting game today so interesting. Everybody has different attributes. Jordan was driving and slamming dunks. Then he began to evolve and created his fadeaway jumper. Analogy is that his game has finesse and style. GSP was landing combos at will.

That is also why although I'm a very HUGE fan of GSP I believe Anderson Silva is the P4P champ because he can END anyone in a blink of an eye. 

Awesome performance though! Roach and Phil Nurse weren't lying. GSP was landing a lot of hooks and inside left kicks. KOS is gonna be sore tmr and for the rest of the week.


----------



## Vale_Tudo

*WOW *what a berformance!
Just further proof that GSP Is the pound for pound best fighter on the planet! Total domination.

I do find It strange though how Kos' corner didnt change the gameplan after that first/second round. Why the hell would you want to stand with GSP after getting schooled like that? Kos and his corner should've changed gameplan and go for takedowns, takedown and more takedowns! He couldnt have done any worse than he was doing with his striking


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy

*Good read and article about GSP*

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;_ylt=Aix2sf_iutQhFOkmpxtPX_c9Eo14?slug=ki-gsp121210



> MONTREAL – Georges St. Pierre was brilliant Saturday. He closed Josh Koscheck’s eye in the first round of their match for the UFC welterweight title in front of 23,152 bloodthirsty fans in the main event of UFC 124 at the Bell Centre. There was little his coaches wanted him to do that he didn’t accomplish, running the table by winning all five rounds and racking up a one-sided unanimous decision victory.
> 
> By the middle of the third round, Koscheck’s face looked like a bag of ground chuck. He had welts up and down his leg from the kicks that St. Pierre was landing.
> 
> When the fifth round began, Koscheck’s right eye was grotesquely swollen so much that he couldn’t see out of it. At that point, as St. Pierre was closing out his eighth consecutive victory, a thought occurred: What would have happened to the opponent if he’d been fighting four full rounds with one eye against champion Anderson Silva and not St. Pierre?
> 
> Believe me, it wouldn’t have been pretty. And the judges wouldn’t have had to render a verdict, either.
> 
> With no one left in his division to measure him against, it’s only fair to measure St. Pierre against the elite of the elite in the game – men like Silva, the UFC middleweight champion, and Jose Aldo, its dynamic young featherweight champ.
> 
> Silva has had more than his share of lackluster performances, but when he gets a chance to finish a fight, there is no more cold, calculating or ruthless finisher in the sport.
> 
> But St. Pierre’s victory, as technically brilliant as it was Saturday, was little more than a missed opportunity. It was the third fight in a row that St. Pierre has gone the distance, and the fourth in his last five outings. Since regaining the welterweight title by knocking out Matt Serra at UFC 83, St. Pierre has fought 24 of 25 possible rounds. The one fight he finished was against B.J. Penn, a lightweight at the time, when Penn’s corner threw in the towel at the end of the fourth.
> 
> From the early moments Saturday, St. Pierre was pummeling Koscheck and had him running for cover, unable to see anything coming from his right side. And yet, St. Pierre never came close to knocking him out and really was never close with a submission attempt.
> 
> Asked if he were satisfied with yet another victory by decision, St. Pierre didn’t equivocate.
> 
> “No,” he said, sharply. “No. I wanted to finish, with a knockout or a submission. He’s very tough. I closed his right eye, so I was doing a lot with the hook and the high left kick to try to knock him out standing up, but he’s very good, you know. He’s very tough. My punches didn’t land on the chin as much, as I wanted to finish him off. It was a good fight, entertaining, but I wanted to finish it. That was my goal.”
> 
> Of course, there are two guys in there fighting, and Koscheck deserves credit for hanging in and not surrendering. He didn’t show up just to collect a paycheck. He took a beating and was still firing haymakers in the waning seconds of the match.
> 
> He wasn’t good enough to beat St. Pierre – who at 170 pounds is? – but he didn’t quit. St. Pierre coach Greg Jackson wasn’t buying the argument that St. Pierre came up short by not finishing his trash-talking rival.
> 
> “Praise Koscheck for taking punch after punch and kick after kick,” Jackson said. “If you get hit with some of those right hands that would knock down a horse, credit goes to Koscheck for withstanding that kind of a beating. His eye was closed because he kept getting hit with left hooks, straight rights. He wasn’t able to impose his game plan, because when he would sit down to get his game plan going, he was eating right hands, head kicks. If any credit should go anywhere, it should be to Koscheck’s toughness for absorbing an amazing amount of damage.”
> 
> True enough. But then, think of Silva and think of the killer instinct he shows whenever he senses even the least little bit of an opening. St. Pierre had his openings, but he chose to be wary, to think of defense first, and he was unwilling to take even a little risk.
> 
> That will win him a lot of fights and keep him as the champion perhaps for as long as he’s interested in holding the belt, but it’s hard to make an argument that you’re the best fighter in the world when you can’t put a one-eyed, beaten-up opponent away.
> 
> “Josh Koscheck throws his punches circular, and to beat him, I had to stay on the outside behind my jab,” St. Pierre said. “If I would have stood in the pocket with him and started throwing circular, it would have been the same thing as if I took a coin and flipped it and saw who landed first on the target. It was a risk of getting knocked out.
> 
> “My game doesn’t rely on chance. I don’t get bold when I fight. I try to put all the odds on my side. That’s why I tried to use my jab and stay on the outside.”
> 
> Thiago Alves, who lost a five-round decision to St. Pierre at UFC 100, raved about St. Pierre’s talent and wasn’t willing to be critical of the lack of a finish. He said that sometimes, the openings don’t appear.
> 
> He said St. Pierre deserved to be praised for his dominance.
> 
> “Georges has proven a lot that he’s the best in the weight division for a long time,” said Alves, who won a unanimous decision over John Howard in an entertaining scrap earlier on the card. “When you’re inside of there, it’s a little different. Sometimes things don’t go the way you want, but he still put in a great performance. He won all five rounds, so I think he did great.”
> 
> No right-minded person could have watched St. Pierre pick apart Koscheck and not leave thinking he is a magnificent fighting machine.
> 
> The best in the world, though, he is not. That honor should once again belong to Silva, the oft-criticized middleweight who showed his ability to close the show at UFC 117 against Chael Sonnen. *Sonnen pounded on Silva for 4 1/2 rounds and was on the verge of a monumental upset when Silva seized the moment and locked in a fight-ending triangle choke.
> 
> That’s the kind of a move that the top fighter in the world makes.* Fighters aren’t going to get knockouts every time out, nor are they going to be at their best each time.
> 
> But St. Pierre was at his best Saturday. No less an authority than Jackson, arguably the sport’s finest coach, said as much. Asked how he rated St. Pierre’s performance, Jackson didn’t hesitate.
> 
> “As one of his highest,” Jackson said. “Here’s the thing you don’t understand: Koscheck is not an easy man to beat, first of all. When he’s in shape and focused and ready to go, he’s the best in the world. There’s a reason he’s the No. 1 contender. To be beaten, to be dominated like that, I think is the height of martial arts.”
> 
> The 23,152 fans jammed into the Bell Centre watched a marvelous display of mixed martial arts and saw one of the greatest fighters who ever lived perform.
> 
> After yet another fight without a finish, though, it’s clear there should be no more debate.
> 
> George St. Pierre is very good. Anderson Silva is the best in the world.


Do you guys agree? I started to hate on Anderson Silva after a lot of his less than exciting fights but he does have a point.

The parts I underlined and bolded seems to have made me realized Anderson Silva isn't as bad as many make him out to be(This includes me now). As shown by the ability to seize the win from Chael in a fight he was losing badly. Say what you want but he did what very few people can do in MMA now or days and that's to win even when all hope is lost. Most fighters after losing that many rounds tend to wilt away mentally and physically.

Anyways that was my 2c.


----------



## Finnsidious

Notoriousxpinoy said:


> http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;_ylt=Aix2sf_iutQhFOkmpxtPX_c9Eo14?slug=ki-gsp121210
> 
> 
> 
> Do you guys agree? I started to hate on Anderson Silva after a lot of his less than exciting fights but he does have a point.
> 
> The parts I underlined and bolded seems to have made me realized Anderson Silva isn't as bad as many make him out to be(This includes me now). As shown by the ability to seize the win from Chael in a fight he was losing badly. Say what you want but he did what very few people can do in MMA now or days and that's to win even when all hope is lost. Most fighters after losing that many rounds tend to wilt away mentally and physically.
> 
> Anyways that was my 2c.


So GSP never loses a round, and he's a worse fighter than Silva because of it????? And Silva is a better fighter, because he was losing the fight to Sonnen and had to pull out a last minute sub?

Um....ok. There you go GSP, to be the number 1 p4p you have to lose a few more rounds. So I guess if he lost a fight completely that would solidify GSP's position as the number one p4p then for sure? Should have taken a dive against Kos, huh George?

I'm not trying to put you down here, I understand where you and the author of the article are coming from, but when you put it like that, you can see how saying someone is better because they lost more rounds doesn't really make a compelling argument for me.

Just put them in the cage together and this is settled I say. Tell Shields to get bent and make the superfight happen.


----------



## BrianRClover

GSP is more consistent, Silva is a better finisher. GSP has much better wrestling, Silva has much better striking. They both rock a bald head! Who cares?!? We may never get to see this fight happen, but even if we don't I'm glad that I'm a die hard MMA fan in the height of their careers... because no matter who you side with, it is a spectacle to watch.

By the way, Vitor's days are terribly numbered.:thumbsup:


----------



## No_Mercy

Great article to the OP. Repped. This is what I've been stating on all the threads since day one and a friendly debate we all get into. 

GSP is no doubt one of my favorites and have huge respect for him as a fighter and person. Awesome win so I don't want to undermine his performance at all. 

Anderson Silva is something else though. They don't call him "The Spider" for nothing. He inflicts maximum damage with a blink of an eye. He KOs people when they're "FRESH." If KOS was in there oh man, I don't know what would have hit him. Probably a left jab then a right kick to switch it up and then BAM left hook, elbow, or LHK. 

Anybody in a lower weight class will have a major significant disadvantage moving up. Anderson is the only exception. 

Vitor will be his biggest challenge up to date. 

I WAS STILL VERY IMBRESSED WITH GSP'S PERFORMANCE!!!


----------



## boney

*I Guess Koschek Has The Right......*

TO BITCH ABOUT HIS EYE THIS TIME...

it wasn't a poke...lol.. just a series of jabs..

that eye looked very beat up. when he was talking with joe,
the eye looked like a plum ready to explode..:confused05:

:thumb02:


----------



## rapid

I think the artical is a bit of a joke myself. Why put yourself in a situation of getting tagged when you dont have to? Times are changing in mma...gone are the days of swing and hope the big boys are far more technical then the past.


----------



## Killz

I'm busy looking for post fight photos of that eye but failing miserably.

I have a new found respect for Kos after this fight though.


----------



## Rauno

The eye sure looked nasty.


----------



## Abrissbirne

Haha i have seen some pretty funny shops


----------



## ptw

It's almost as if the guy who wrote that article disregarded every other fight Silva has had. What about his fight against Leites or Maia, he could have finished those guys too...why didn't he? Silva couldn't fight like George if he wanted to, but he does try. Those two fights are good examples of Silva keeping the fight where the opponent is weakest and where he is strongest. I think if Silva didn't have a rib injury in his fight against Sonnen we would have noted his strategy was to finish the fight on the ground and submit him.


----------



## Steroid Steve

I really don't think GSP is big enough for Anderson. GSP is maxed out physically at 170 while Anderson walks around at 220 pounds, and his length will also play a significant part. GSP might take Anderson down a couple of times, but I don't see it happening all too often. Anderson has some of the best reflexes and timing in the game like GSP. Anderson on top of his game will catch GSP going for takedowns sooner or later and counter with his muay thai because I believe Andy's size and length will be a big factor in defending against GSP's takedowns. I don't see GSP standing with Silva. His gameplan would be to go for take downs like how it was to stand with a weak striker in Koscheck. In the end, I see Anderson taking this by TKO due to strikes. Probably in the clinch. IF GSP could somehow grind it out for a decision, he might have a chance.


----------



## Toroian

*Lol Gsp*

He really cant finish a fight! Kosh was blinded in eye after the first jab!Yet GSP failed to KO Kosh! what a let down by GSP :/ 

Is GSP still really scared to fight people with 1 punch KO power? 

Although one thing about this fight that gave me hope is that people can stop GSP take downs and get up fast! credit to Kosh


----------



## Fade

His objective is to entertain and to win. And he accomplished both.


----------



## Danm2501

He's only won 30 rounds in a row now, what a let down. Shit fighter.


----------



## Toroian

Danm2501 said:


> He's only won 30 rounds in a row now, what a let down. Shit fighter.


Yeah don't think i ever said he is a shit fighter thanks fanboy

I said its funny how he cant finish a fighter who is half blind for 5 rounds! and thanks Dan for re-enforcing my point of not been able to finish with that won 30 rounds in a row


----------



## ptw

Who cares, he won. You suck guy.


----------



## Fade

Your point is valid. He's not a bad fighter, he just doesn't deserve the #1 spot at the best P4P list that many people give him. It's proven that the best fighters finish fights. If winning rounds make them the best P4P fighter, then where's Fitch on the list?


----------



## Squirrelfighter

Danm2501 said:


> He's only won 30 rounds in a row now, what a let down. Shit fighter.


I know seriously. And those combinations he was using against Koscheck as well, and when he started using a lead hook in the latter rounds, and when he tried to take his back and go for the RNC. What the hell, GSP asucks!:sarcastic12:

To OP: GSP outgrapples a guy, he's a safe fighter who dry humps his opponent. GSP stands with a guy but doesn't KO him, he's a crappy fighter. It what magical land of trolls does that make sense?


----------



## LizaG

Toroian said:


> He really cant finish a fight! Kosh was blinded in eye after the first jab!Yet GSP failed to KO Kosh! what a let down by GSP :/
> 
> Is GSP still really scared to fight people with 1 punch KO power?
> 
> Although one thing about this fight that gave me hope is that people can stop GSP take downs and get up fast! credit to Kosh


So you'd rather mock a guy for not being able to finish someone, than credit Koscheck for being able to take a punch and stay on his feet in spite of his injuries and the beating he received in the fight?

*Boy have you got this all wrong!!!*


----------



## Killz




----------



## Rauno

Some fighters get critizised for losing, GSP get's critizised for not KO'ing a tough fighter. That show's how badass he truly is.


----------



## Fade

Rauno said:


> Some fighters get critizised for losing, GSP get's critizised for not KO'ing a tough fighter. That show's how badass he truly is.
> 
> [/IMG]


But those "fighters" aren't considered to be one the best fighters in the _world._
Standards will always be high for GSP.


----------



## Toroian

wow alot of fan boys on here as this thread wasnt a troll 

But if people dont a problem with not been able to finish a 1 eyed guy who can be knocked out then fine. He did throw combos yeah tho few and far

I also find it funny that rogan was making it out that GSP was the first guy ever to use a jab alot lol im usre he said the same in the gomi v florian fight


----------



## LizaG

Is this hating for the sake of hating?!!! Jeez!


----------



## vaj3000

Im sorry but im not impressed with this thread!


----------



## Budhisten

Obvious hate is obvious

I am by no means a GSP fanboy, but his display last night impressed the hell outta me, when people start complaining about the wrestler GSP what does he do? He absolutely tears Kos apart standing - and people like you cry and cry over the lack of a finish? Try appreciating his newfound diversety (Though it has always been there to a certain degree) and his ability to fight whereever he damn well pleases...

This fight didn't make me less of a GSP-fan, it made me realize how though Kos actually is, and how dominant GSP really is... If you're really this bothered by the lack of finishes in even matchups then I suggest you stick with StrikeForce buddy, because you're pissing people off...


----------



## Squeetard

GSP had the perfect game plan for Kos. Pepper him with jabs from the outside. He beat him with speed, not power. I did not see any punches thrown with knockout intent by GSP.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

Toroian said:


> wow alot of fan boys on here as this thread wasnt a troll
> 
> But if people dont a problem with not been able to finish a 1 eyed guy who can be knocked out then fine. He did throw combos yeah tho few and far
> 
> I also find it funny that rogan was making it out that GSP was the first guy ever to use a jab alot lol im usre he said the same in the gomi v florian fight


----------



## Soojooko

Just watched the fight.

Twas painful. I didn't watch the last round. For all the banter about GSP tooling Koscheck... I didn't believe it 100%. But that was masterful. Pure ownage.

I want to see GSP Shields. I want to see somebody who *wants* to be on their back. Its the only interesting fight left for GSP at WW.


----------



## edlavis88

As i've said before anyone who says "oh he should have just KO'd him" obviously hasn't done any combat sports/martial arts. KOing someone is fricking hard unless you are born with rock fists or your opponent has a glas jaw. Neither was the case last night. Personally i loved the jab clinic. A well executed jab has always been and will always be my favourite punch.


----------



## Breadfan

I was hoping Kos would have pulled this off, but he definitely did not. He did stay alive, though. I guess I'd rather be KO'd by someone than have to fight GSP and be smothered, exhausted and beat up for the full 15 minutes.

I've been bored of GSP for a while now, and I don't really want to be. I want to like him, but he's too good to be fighting so safely. Smart decision of course... I just can't wait for him to lose so I can like him again.


----------



## Soojooko

This thread is proper rubbish, innit?


----------



## Budhisten

Soojooko said:


> This thread is proper rubbish, innit?


MUSHROOM!


----------



## Soojooko

Budhisten said:


> MUSHROOM!


O my god!... so it is!!!! Fecking fungus grows everywhere.


----------



## AlphaDawg

You most likely got neg repped into oblivion for posting this even though it's true. 

It's not a bad thing by any means that he can't finish a fight but GSP nuthuggers take that really personally for some reason.


----------



## jonnyg4508

No hate here. I believe GSP is the best P4P fighter in MMA right now. That said, of all the champs...his fights I am least excited about. I just watched a 50-45 jab a-thon. Ridiculous that anyone thought Kos would do anythig stading. All he has is a bomb here and there. What a one-sided sparring session. GSP is great, and I don't blame him in how he fights. But if I could pick any other champ to watch...I would.


----------



## Mckeever

Lay off the hate of the OP, he makes very valid points.

Did any one seriously think that koscheck was better than GSP on the feet before this fight? GSP has always been one of the best strikers in the WW division as well as being a freakishly good wrestler.

Its funny. GSP in my eyes put on a classic Michael Bisping performance. jab and move, stick and move, dont comitt to any real power punches and go in for the kill. Mike Bisping gets all the hate in the world, GSP gets praised for out classing a fairly mediocre striker in koscheck.

Again, i was not impressed with GSPS's inability to take risks and really comitt himself to finishing the fight, he was happy to jab and move the entire fight without going in for the kill, when he easily could of put koscheck away.

This fight also proved that GSPS's wrestling and taken downs ARE NOT unstoppable! I was very impressed with kos' abilit to stuff take downs and spring straight back up to his feet when he got taken down. There is hope after all!

Im not bashing on GSPS's skills, hes world class. But time and time again he fails to really leave everything on the line and go in for the kill, finish fights.


----------



## jonnyg4508

Why are people impressed with GSP? You didn't believe before the fight that GSP would beat Kos in a stand up fight? How? He is an impressive guy, but what did he do last night that impressed? Used a jab to keep Kos away the whole fight? We all knew GSP was the superior striker coming into this thing. I don't get what was so impressive. It is impressive that he can beat all of these guys so easy...but 3 years from now while your watch Fitch-GSP III...and GSP beats him down again... Are you going to be impressed?


----------



## sworddemon

If you guys are keeping track, the haters want GSP to fight more recklessly, fight without a game plan, fight without using wrestling, fight without respecting the strengths of his opponents and try to KO everyone who steps in the octagon. There's a reason guys like that are never the champ.


----------



## Toroian

Mckeever said:


> Lay off the hate of the OP, he makes very valid points.
> 
> Did any one seriously think that koscheck was better than GSP on the feet before this fight? GSP has always been one of the best strikers in the WW division as well as being a freakishly good wrestler.
> 
> Its funny. GSP in my eyes put on a classic Michael Bisping performance. jab and move, stick and move, dont comitt to any real power punches and go in for the kill. Mike Bisping gets all the hate in the world, GSP gets praised for out classing a fairly mediocre striker in koscheck.
> 
> Again, i was not impressed with GSPS's inability to take risks and really comitt himself to finishing the fight, he was happy to jab and move the entire fight without going in for the kill, when he easily could of put koscheck away.
> 
> This fight also proved that GSPS's wrestling and taken downs ARE NOT unstoppable! I was very impressed with kos' abilit to stuff take downs and spring straight back up to his feet when he got taken down. There is hope after all!
> 
> Im not bashing on GSPS's skills, hes world class. But time and time again he fails to really leave everything on the line and go in for the kill, finish fights.


My points exactly ++ tho i gave up on this thread as people have closed eyes and ears


----------



## LizaG

sworddemon said:


> If you guys are keeping track, the haters want GSP to fight more recklessly, fight without a game plan, fight without using wrestling, fight without respecting the strengths of his opponents and try to KO everyone who steps in the octagon. There's a reason guys like that are never the champ.


This is so true. GSP did exactly what he needed to do to win.


----------



## LizaG

Toroian said:


> My points exactly ++ tho i gave up on this thread as people have closed eyes and ears


You started and based this entire thread on your closed ears and eyes.


----------



## Mckeever

So GSP Michael Bisping's kos for 5 rounds and gets praised for an incredible performance.

I was not impressed. If any one thought that koscheck had a chance on the feet before this fight started, then you were kidding yourselves. GSP has always been one of the best strikers in the WW division and a freakishly good wrestler.

Koscheck is a medicore striker who was out struck for 5 rounds. 

I really expected GSP to make a statement and finish kos here. Dissapointed.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

Mckeever said:


> Lay off the hate of the OP, he makes very valid points.
> 
> Did any one seriously think that koscheck was better than GSP on the feet before this fight? GSP has always been one of the best strikers in the WW division as well as being a freakishly good wrestler.
> 
> Its funny. GSP in my eyes put on a classic Michael Bisping performance. jab and move, stick and move, dont comitt to any real power punches and go in for the kill. Mike Bisping gets all the hate in the world, GSP gets praised for out classing a fairly mediocre striker in koscheck.
> 
> Again, i was not impressed with GSPS's inability to take risks and really comitt himself to finishing the fight, he was happy to jab and move the entire fight without going in for the kill, when he easily could of put koscheck away.
> 
> This fight also proved that GSPS's wrestling and taken downs ARE NOT unstoppable! I was very impressed with kos' abilit to stuff take downs and spring straight back up to his feet when he got taken down. There is hope after all!
> 
> Im not bashing on GSPS's skills, hes world class. But time and time again he fails to really leave everything on the line and go in for the kill, finish fights.


Not everyone can fight like Wanderlei Silva or Chuck Liddell with the "CCCAARRBBBLLLLAAARRGGG! Your fists can't hurt me!" mentality. He's already shown that if he gets hit on the chin he'll go down (Serra 1). And he knows it. 

He stood with Koscheck for 95 percent of the fight. Koscheck had every opportunity GSP did to throw the kill shot. He instead circled and jerked his head backwards. 

And the difference between GSP and Bisping, aside from the usual MW vs WW and Douchehammer vs Quiet guy things is, GSP could've tried harder to put Koscheck on his back. He seemed rather content to punch him in the face for 25 minutes when it became apparent the takedowns would be a lot of work. While Bisping has poor JJ and poor wrestling.


----------



## edlavis88

jonnyg4508 said:


> No hate here. I believe GSP is the best P4P fighter in MMA right now. That said, of all the champs...his fights I am least excited about. I just watched a 50-45 jab a-thon. Ridiculous that anyone thought Kos would do anythig stading. All he has is a bomb here and there. What a one-sided sparring session. GSP is great, and I don't blame him in how he fights. But if I could pick any other champ to watch...I would.


Even Edgar? GSP fought exactly like Edgar does last night except for the fact that GSP packs a lot more heat i mean by the time he had finished with Kos he had a vagina instead of a right eye. 



Mckeever said:


> *Did any one seriously think that koscheck was better than GSP on the feet before this fight?*


You'd be surprised. A lot of people on here thought exactly that.


----------



## jonnyg4508

sworddemon said:


> If you guys are keeping track, the haters want GSP to fight more recklessly, fight without a game plan, fight without using wrestling, fight without respecting the strengths of his opponents and try to KO everyone who steps in the octagon. There's a reason guys like that are never the champ.


No one wants that.

But if you have a guy with a closed eye for 5 rounds who is looking like a punching bag, just getting tagged whenever...it would be nice to see a finish. But GSP was just happy to jab his way to the victory.


----------



## Mckeever

Squirrelfighter said:


> Not everyone can fight like Wanderlei Silva or Chuck Liddell with the "CCCAARRBBBLLLLAAARRGGG! Your fists can't hurt me!" mentality. He's already shown that if he gets hit on the chin he'll go down (Serra 1). And he knows it.
> 
> He stood with Koscheck for 95 percent of the fight. Koscheck had every opportunity GSP did to throw the kill shot. He instead circled and jerked his head backwards.
> 
> And the difference between GSP and Bisping, aside from the usual MW vs WW and Douchehammer vs Quiet guy things is, GSP could've tried harder to put Koscheck on his back. He seemed rather content to punch him in the face for 25 minutes when it became apparent the takedowns would be a lot of work. While Bisping has poor JJ and poor wrestling.


Dont see what chuck lidell or wanderlie have any thing to do with this. There are plenty of other fighters not named chuck lidell or wand that finish fights. BJ Penn for example. You can still be a very technical and patient fighter and still finish fights.

So because GSP got caught and TKO'd once that means he has a dodgy chin? Any one can get hit on the button and get put away. You simply can not judge the durability of a fighters chin based from ONE FIGHT. When else has GSP been wobbled in his entire career? Never. This chin thing is not an excuse.

Like i said, plenty of other technical, "smart" fighters still go out there and finish fights. GSP jabbing and moving for 5 rounds against a medicore striker in koscheck was not very impressive in my eyes. He could of put koscheck away, koscheck looked absolutely terrified on the feet in there, GSP chose not to though.

It was a vintage Michael Bisping/ frankie edgar performance.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

Mckeever said:


> *Dont see what chuck lidell or wanderlie have any thing to do with this. There are plenty of other fighters not named chuck lidell or wand that finish fights. BJ Penn for example. You can still be a very technical and patient fighter and still finish fights.*
> 
> *So because GSP got caught and TKO'd once that means he has a dodgy chin? *Any one can get hit on the button and get put away. You simply can not judge the durability of a fighters chin based from ONE FIGHT. When else has GSP been wobbled in his entire career? Never. This chin thing is not an excuse.
> 
> Like i said, plenty of other technical, "smart" fighters still go out there and finish fights. GSP jabbing and moving for 5 rounds against a medicore striker in koscheck was not very impressive in my eyes. He could of put koscheck away, koscheck looked absolutely terrified on the feet in there, GSP chose not to though.
> 
> It was a vintage Michael Bisping/ frankie edgar performance.


Bold 1: I was refering to the willingness to get hit vs unwilling to get hit. 

Bold 2: GSP said in the pre-Hardy interview that he remembers that Serra knocked him out and is constantly trying to make sure that doesn't happen again. 

Its a good game plan, and always has been in MMA, Boxing, and any other full contact sport, Stick and move to stay away from your opponent's strength. Its good boxing sense. It doesn't mean he's a wuss because he didn't throw bombs for 25 minutes.


----------



## Freelancer

Squirrelfighter said:


> While Bisping has poor JJ and poor wrestling.


That's simply not true. He defends takedowns and ground attacks very good.


----------



## Mckeever

Squirrelfighter said:


> Bold 1: I was refering to the willingness to get hit vs unwilling to get hit.
> 
> Bold 2: GSP said in the pre-Hardy interview that he remembers that Serra knocked him out and is constantly trying to make sure that doesn't happen again.
> 
> Its a good game plan, and always has been in MMA, Boxing, and any other full contact sport, Stick and move to stay away from your opponent's strength. Its good boxing sense. It doesn't mean he's a wuss because he didn't throw bombs for 25 minutes.


Ok so @ bold 1 so what does this have to do with any thing? You can still not get hit and finish fights. Bj Penn for example.

Bold 2. Yes i remember that too, this is clearly a weakness then. Hes still concerned from a flash TKO almost four years ago then if he ever gets hit on the chin hes going to get put to sleep.

So why then do the likes of Edgar and Bisping get criticised for their stick and move striking tactics, yet GSP gets praised as god? 

Because thats what this performance was. A stick and move display of boxing against a one dimensional, mediocre striker.

Again, Koscheck actually looked terrified last night. GSP could have easily put koscheck away with his technical boxing last night and not get countered but he chose not to.

Not impressed with this performance.


----------



## cisco2403

I was actually more impressed with Koscheck for being able to last the last 4 rounds without being finished fighting with 1 eye. The guy is tough as nails and deserves props for that. His eye was completely jacked after the first round and he still stood up with GSP without trying to constantly go for the takedown.


----------



## Soojooko

Holy thread-merge confusion...


----------



## Squirrelfighter

Mckeever said:


> Ok so @ bold 1 so what does this have to do with any thing? You can still not get hit and finish fights. *Bj Penn for example*.
> 
> Bold 2. Yes i remember that too, this is clearly a weakness then. *Hes still concerned from a flash TKO almost four years ago then if he ever gets hit on the chin hes going to get put to sleep*.
> 
> *So why then do the likes of Edgar and Bisping get criticised for their stick and move striking tactics, yet GSP gets praised as god? *
> 
> Because thats what this performance was. A stick and move display of boxing against a one dimensional, mediocre striker.
> 
> Again, Koscheck actually looked terrified last night. GSP could have easily put koscheck away with his technical boxing last night and not get countered but he chose not to.
> 
> Not impressed with this performance.


Bold 1. Penn's game plan was always come in and finish everyone he fought in which ever way he planned for. GSP's game plan is to win. Safe or not he makes people look like noobs.

Bold 2. So he can't get over the KO and doesn't want it to happen again. Last time I checked not wanting to get punched in the head was a good thing when you want to win...

Bold 3. Because some people are raging douchebags. Good technique is good technique, it doesn't matter who does it. I don't like Bisping, but not because of his style, because of the auditory excriment that comes out of his mouth.


----------



## Mckeever

cisco2403 said:


> I was actually more impressed with Koscheck for being able to last the last 4 rounds without being finished fighting with 1 eye. The guy is tough as nails and deserves props for that. His eye was completely jacked after the first round and he still stood up with GSP without trying to constantly go for the takedown.


I was impressed also with his take down defense and scrambles and even his own take down in round 1. I think people were getting carried away (myself included) with GSPS's wrestling. i think some of us thought it was just unstoppable and no one could stop his TD's or even take the man down himself.


----------



## 420atalon

420atalon said:


> This is where our view points differ then. I think GSP wants to strike with Kos as he has a definitive advantage imo. And I also think Kos also plans to outwrestle GSP not knock him out.
> 
> Koscheck is a dangerous wrestler, it is possible that he could outwrestle GSP but I think because of GSP's better striking and better takedowns he will be able to avoid being taken down more often then not and punish Kos on the feet leaving Kos needing to land that one lucky shot.


I just feel like gloating... So important not to buy into the UFC hype when analyzing a fight. GSP is the best wrestler and striker in the division.

Edit: ^ I thought GSP would get Kos down in the 2nd or 3rd but he kind of turned away from it because of so much success standing. Koscheck definitely has great wrestling and is right up their with GSP(although he doesn't have near as nice of takedown set up)


----------



## Onizuka

Wow, I was expecting a lot more out of Koscheck.
But, still happy to see that GSP took another win.


----------



## Mckeever

Squirrelfighter said:


> Bold 1. Penn's game plan was always come in and finish everyone he fought in which ever way he planned for. GSP's game plan is to win. Safe or not he makes people look like noobs.
> 
> Bold 2. So he can't get over the KO and doesn't want it to happen again. Last time I checked not wanting to get punched in the head was a good thing when you want to win...
> 
> Bold 3. Because some people are raging douchebags. Good technique is good technique, it doesn't matter who does it. I don't like Bisping, but not because of his style, because of the auditory excriment that comes out of his mouth.


GSPS's game plan for the koscheck fight was to finish him, it wasnt to take him 5 rounds. GSP was even dissapointed in himself. You could see from the weigh ins how pumped up he was and how much he wanted to finish koscheck infront of his home town.

Fact is when he got in the cage, some thing got lost in translation. He was not fighting to finish the fight. Again i stress at how easily he COULD of put koscheck away, but he chose not to.

@bold 2 again he doesnt have to get punched in the head in order to finish the fight. He can finish his opponent without getting caught on the chin.

Bisping gets a lot of hate not just because they dont like his persona but because of his techniques and methods he uses to win fights. You're an exception, but he gets a lot of heat for sticking and moving, which is basically what GSP did last night.

GSP is obviously world class and head and shoulders above kos no doubt, but lately, his inability too really comitt to finishing a fight is a hindrance.


----------



## Rusko

I started rooting for Koschek after 3rd round.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

Mckeever said:


> GSPS's game plan for the koscheck fight was to finish him, it wasnt to take him 5 rounds. GSP was even dissapointed in himself. You could see from the weigh ins how pumped up he was and how much he wanted to finish koscheck infront of his home town.
> 
> Fact is when he got in the cage, some thing got lost in translation. He was not fighting to finish the fight. Again i stress at how easily he COULD of put koscheck away, but he chose not to.
> 
> @bold 2 again he doesnt have to get punched in the head in order to finish the fight. He can finish his opponent without getting caught on the chin.
> 
> Bisping gets a lot of hate not just because they dont like his persona but because of his techniques and methods he uses to win fights. You're an exception, but he gets a lot of heat for sticking and moving, which is basically what GSP did last night.
> 
> GSP is obviously world class and head and shoulders above kos no doubt, but lately, his inability too really comitt to finishing a fight is a hindrance.


I don't know if that was his gameplan...he seemed motivated, but between rounds 1 and 2 Greg Jackson clearly said in his corner, "Jab and circle, jab and circle, keep your hands up." I think that might have been the game plan and the whole I'ma kill you Koscheck! bit in the pre-fight interviews was a smokescreen. 

He committed to finishing Hardy twice, just failed. He finished Penn. He finished Serra. He finished Hughs. The only people he hasn't truly gone for the finish on since regaining the title are, Koscheck, and maybe Alves.


----------



## 420atalon

Mckeever said:


> GSPS's game plan for the koscheck fight was to finish him, it wasnt to take him 5 rounds. GSP was even dissapointed in himself. You could see from the weigh ins how pumped up he was and how much he wanted to finish koscheck infront of his home town.
> 
> Fact is when he got in the cage, some thing got lost in translation. He was not fighting to finish the fight. Again i stress at how easily he COULD of put koscheck away, but he chose not to.
> 
> @bold 2 again he doesnt have to get punched in the head in order to finish the fight. He can finish his opponent without getting caught on the chin.
> 
> Bisping gets a lot of hate not just because they dont like his persona but because of his techniques and methods he uses to win fights. You're an exception, but he gets a lot of heat for sticking and moving, which is basically what GSP did last night.
> 
> GSP is obviously world class and ahead and shoulders above kos no doubt, but lately, his inability too really comitt to finishing a fight is a hindrance.


Can you state with 100% confidence and a straight face that GSP was not trying to finish the fight in the first 3 rounds?

GSP was clocking Koscheck left and right but Koscheck is a tough sob. If Kos had of fallen to one of those big shots GSP would have been all over him and tried hard to finish the fight but Kos has a great chin and big power that GSP had to respect.

People that think fighters should blindly rage in looking for a finish are stupid. GSP going for a finish like you say he should have would have increased his chances of losing nearly 10 fold. The reason for this is that he would have had to try and get in closer to land some nasty hooks since the jab and straight rights weren't proving strong enough to finish. Getting in close would have been extremely dangerous swollen eye or not. 

That is how Serra beat GSP and how many other worse fighters make comeback wins(when fighters don't fight smart or to win). 

GSP has finished nearly everyone of his fights as of late in a sense that some do not seem to get. He breaks other fighters will. Why wasn't Koscheck throwing for the fences to end the fight? GSP isn't Mike Tyson, he doesn't have the power to just wade in and destroy people. He has amazing technique which allows him to pick fighters apart while protecting himself from danger.

The GSP hate is just like the Silva hate. Completely unwarranted. When you find someone to challenge either guy they put on amazing shows. Unfortunately doing so is next to impossible(hence why they should fight each other).


----------



## aerius

Squirrelfighter said:


> I don't like Bisping, but not because of his style, because of the auditory excriment that comes out of his mouth.


Yup, couldn't agree more. If Bisping were a nice humble dude the way he is in most of his written magazine interviews I wouldn't have a problem with him. Hell, I actually liked the guy when he was on TUF and his first couple fights in the UFC after TUF. Then he just had to go and develop a case of chronic verbal diarrhea.


----------



## oldfan

I don't really get the people who are "disappointed". To find fault with gsp for not finishing and give Kos no credit for hanging in there, makes no sense. 

Do you want this?









or this?









or this


----------



## thrshr01

oldfan said:


> I don't really get the people who are "disappointed". To find fault with gsp for not finishing and give Kos no credit for hanging in there, makes no sense.
> 
> Do you want this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or this


That or the haters have spent too much time playing this...


----------



## attention

Squirrelfighter said:


> I don't know if that was his gameplan...he seemed motivated, but between rounds 1 and 2 Greg Jackson clearly said in his corner, "Jab and circle, jab and circle, keep your hands up." I think that might have been the game plan and the whole I'ma kill you Koscheck! bit in the pre-fight interviews was a smokescreen.
> 
> He committed to finishing Hardy twice, just failed. He finished Penn. He finished Serra. He finished Hughs. The only people he hasn't truly gone for the finish on since regaining the title are, Koscheck, and maybe Alves.


I agree... mostly... I think the jab was one of many tools in GSP's arsenal that after the first round turned out to be very effective... 

So as a trainer/coach, what advice do you give your guy after seeing his jab light up his opponents face? you tell him to keep doing it... because clearly, his opponent cant handle it... What you wouldnt do is tell him to 'stop jabbing him and start throw haymakers' :sarcastic12:

Also, it was VERY obvious that all that Kos brought to the table was (1)haymaker overhand right (2)inside uppercut (3)TDD. IMHO, Kos' overhand right would take out *anyone*... not just a "questionably chin'd" GSP... so why in the world would you want to even leave an opportunity like that open... even by the 5th Kos was STILL managing to wing that punch with something behind it...and thats ALL that it would have taken for Kos to win.

Lets just say (for the sake of argument) that GSP has indeed a weak chin... does it not make sense to put a strategy together that doesnt expose that weakness? ...moreso, how come no opponent since Serra has been able to capitalize on that fact? 

At the end of the day, all this bitching about GSP and his 'inability to finish fights' also falls as a complaint against his opponents... If GSP sucks, that means his opponents that lose to him suck EVEN worse... If GSP can stop crap, that means his opponents are even WORSE because they LOST... by belittling GSP, you belittle the opponents he has defeated even more so... you cant complain about just the one guy... it takes TWO to put on a fight


----------



## valrond

Well, that didn't go down as I expected. I was expecting another 5 rounds of GSP on top of Kos, and it almost started like that, with GSP shooting for the takedown within 20 seconds of the start of the fight. However, Kos did something nobody had done before: keep the fight standing. GSP tried a few more times but he was unable to keep Kos down.

Nevertheless, it didn't matter, GSP outclassed Kos standing, and that's it. Finally Kos made us see how good a technical striker GSP is. He has everything to be one of the best strikers of MMA, except for one critical component: KO Power. After all the hits he scored on Koschek, he didn't even rock him once, and I think that's the reason (and the risk of being Knocked Out by a lucky punch) why he goes to the ground everytime he can.

Hopefully, he realizes that he's also dominant on his feet and we don't get 25 minutes of him on top of his opponent.


----------



## towwffc

I realize that the p4p thing is objective, but I see that everybody places finishes very high, regardless of what led up to the finish. I would think that GSP and possibly Aldo would be in front of Anderson now because if we line them up and look at there performances...

Silva was rocked, dropped, and manhandled for 24 minutes and barely came back. That is the most one sided beating I have ever seen a p4p fighter take. Yet, Dana states that Silva is still easily number 1? While GSP has not finished his last couple opponents, he dominated every single round proving without a doubt he is the better fighter. Aldo has dominated and finished his opponents, however he has not faced the same level of competition for as long as Silva and GSP.

I guess my point is, p4p means the absolute BEST. Well it's safe to say that GSP is better than each of his opponents. It's safe to say that Aldo is better than each of his opponents. But i'm still not so sure if Anderson is better than Chael Sonnen. Just my opinion.


----------



## Silva4Ever

Dont't get why this fight got the fight of the night bonus.
It was as one sided as any of GSP's last fights. It was interesting so see how he picked Kos apart in the stand up, but fight of the night? Alves vs. Howard and Pierson vs. Riddle were way more interesting and fun to watch!


----------



## Dan0

towwffc said:


> I realize that the p4p thing is objective, but I see that everybody places finishes very high, regardless of what led up to the finish. I would think that GSP and possibly Aldo would be in front of Anderson now because if we line them up and look at there performances...
> 
> Silva was rocked, dropped, and manhandled for 24 minutes and barely came back. That is the most one sided beating I have ever seen a p4p fighter take. Yet, Dana states that Silva is still easily number 1? While GSP has not finished his last couple opponents, he dominated every single round proving without a doubt he is the better fighter. Aldo has dominated and finished his opponents, however he has not faced the same level of competition for as long as Silva and GSP.
> 
> I guess my point is, p4p means the absolute BEST. Well it's safe to say that GSP is better than each of his opponents. It's safe to say that Aldo is better than each of his opponents. But i'm still not so sure if Anderson is better than Chael Sonnen. Just my opinion.


Quoted for the truth.
Send this to Dana White and the rest of the people that think that GSP is below Silva in the p4p list.


----------



## valrond

towwffc said:


> I realize that the p4p thing is objective, but I see that everybody places finishes very high, regardless of what led up to the finish. I would think that GSP and possibly Aldo would be in front of Anderson now because if we line them up and look at there performances...
> 
> Silva was rocked, dropped, and manhandled for 24 minutes and barely came back. That is the most one sided beating I have ever seen a p4p fighter take. Yet, Dana states that Silva is still easily number 1? While GSP has not finished his last couple opponents, he dominated every single round proving without a doubt he is the better fighter. Aldo has dominated and finished his opponents, however he has not faced the same level of competition for as long as Silva and GSP.
> 
> I guess my point is, p4p means the absolute BEST. Well it's safe to say that GSP is better than each of his opponents. It's safe to say that Aldo is better than each of his opponents. But i'm still not so sure if Anderson is better than Chael Sonnen. Just my opinion.


Well, when Anderson had already defended his title against Marquardt at UFC 73, GSP STARTED his current run at UFC 74 against Koschek. The thing is, Silva showed he was able to go to the cage injured, make a bad performance for 23 minutes, get rocked, and still win. GSP was Knocked Out by Serra at UFC 69, he didn't recover. Sure, he is a much better GSP now, but except for this last fight, where Kos was able to stuff the takedowns, his blueprint was the same: Take the guy down in the first 30 secs of the round, and keep him down, doing damage in the process, keeping the risks at minumum. A smart strategy,for sure, but a little boring sometimes.

In his 5 title defenses since he destroyed Serra for the title, he has gone to decision in all of them, except when Penn bailed out at the 4th. He has won all of the rounds, if I'm not mistaken, but he hasn't stopped nobody, which is why he still isn't a clear cut #1.

Silva, on the other side, Silva, on his 7 title defenses, he has gone to decision only twice, and yes, Sonnen was on top of him 4 and a half rounds, but he still lost. And in the meantime, he fought twice at 205, with a total fighting time of 4:24, and did beat Lutter for what would be his first title defense. In total, 7-0 in title fights and 3-0 in no title fights since he got the belt, 10-0 with only two fights going the distance.


----------



## TanyaJade

valrond said:


> Well, when Anderson had already defended his title against Marquardt at UFC 73, GSP STARTED his current run at UFC 74 against Koschek. The thing is, Silva showed he was able to go to the cage injured, make a bad performance for 23 minutes, get rocked, and still win. GSP was Knocked Out by Serra at UFC 69, he didn't recover. Sure, he is a much better GSP now, but except for this last fight, where Kos was able to stuff the takedowns, his blueprint was the same: Take the guy down in the first 30 secs of the round, and keep him down, doing damage in the process, keeping the risks at minumum. A smart strategy,for sure, but a little boring sometimes.
> 
> In his 5 title defenses since he destroyed Serra for the title, he has gone to decision in all of them, except when Penn bailed out at the 4th. He has won all of the rounds, if I'm not mistaken, but he hasn't stopped nobody, which is why he still isn't a clear cut #1.
> 
> Silva, on the other side, Silva, on his 7 title defenses, he has gone to decision only twice, and yes, Sonnen was on top of him 4 and a half rounds, but he still lost. And in the meantime, he fought twice at 205, with a total fighting time of 4:24, and did beat Lutter for what would be his first title defense. In total, 7-0 in title fights and 3-0 in no title fights since he got the belt, 10-0 with only two fights going the distance.


GSP pulled his groin in the third round against Thiago Alves at UFC 100, and still wrecked him, even with his injured groin.

While I can respect your opinion, I don't agree with the logic that "exciting" and "more finishes" means that they are the better fighter. If St. Pierre moved up to middleweight, I'm almost sure he would wreck Silva into oblivion. Things like "P4P" rankings are not based on how exciting, or the fnishing rate of a fighter, they're based on how well a fighter does in the cage or a ring, and the results they put up.

Yeah, Anderson is exciting, extremely talented, and he finishes fights. So? It was made very clear that he has a major weakness. He was losing to Lutter before pulling out a WTF sub. He was getting beat by Dan Henderson, who if he had ANY sort of discipline, would have beaten Silva. Chael Sonnen was owning him like something else until he stayed in full guard and got caught with a triangle, despite having horrible submission defense.

GSP has dominated every opponent put infront of him, and aside from Hardy, has defended his title against top-competition, who have had absolutely NOTHING to offer GSP. He completely dominates his opponents and makes them look like amateurs. While he doesn't finish all of them, his dominance over the very stacked Welterweight division is truly remarkable.


----------



## limba

Mckeever said:


> So GSP Michael Bisping's kos for 5 rounds and gets praised for an incredible performance.
> 
> I was not impressed. If any one thought that koscheck had a chance on the feet before this fight started, then you were kidding yourselves. GSP has always been one of the best strikers in the WW division and a freakishly good wrestler.
> 
> Koscheck is a medicore striker who was out struck for 5 rounds.
> 
> I really expected GSP to make a statement and finish kos here. Dissapointed.


Mck. You know, you and me, are on the same page in most cases, but i will disagree with you.

You can't really say GSP "Bispinged" Kos for 5 rounds.

GSP is like this. People should forget about those "wet dreams", in wich GSP comes out swinging like Wanderlei Silva. There is a reason GSP is champion for so long: *discipline*. St. Pierre is the smartest fihter in the UFC imo, when it comes to implementing game plans and executions.

And coming back to the comparison with Bisping.
While Bisping has won a lot of his fights the way you described it, he has done so against mid level competition. Everytime he stepped up against the top competitors he crumbled. 
I will LOVE to see MB fights against the TOP of the division: Silva, Sonnen, Okami, Nate, Maia, Palhares, Vitor, Belcher or even Falcao.

See how he matches-up to these guys!

GSP in the meantime has been man-handling the entire WW division. He has fought only top competition and he has dominated. That is a fact. 

I'm a GSP fan and i enjoy watching his fights. For me, the way he makes world class fighters look like they don't belong in the cage, is priceless. I don't care he's not finnishing fights. It's not like he's not trying. 

But at the end of the day, the fact remains - GSP dominated.

He's the champion. It's up to the other fighters to elevate their game and find a way to stop him. So far, they've failed.


----------



## Mckeever

limba said:


> Mck. You know, you and me, are on the same page in most cases, but i will disagree with you.
> 
> You can't really say GSP "Bispinged" Kos for 5 rounds.
> 
> GSP is like this. People should forget about those "wet dreams", in wich GSP comes out swinging like Wanderlei Silva. There is a reason GSP is champion for so long: *discipline*. St. Pierre is the smartest fihter in the UFC imo, when it comes to implementing game plans and executions.
> 
> And coming back to the comparison with Bisping.
> While Bisping has won a lot of his fights the way you described it, he has done so against mid level competition. Everytime he stepped up against the top competitors he crumbled.
> I will LOVE to see MB fights against the TOP of the division: Silva, Sonnen, Okami, Nate, Maia, Palhares, Vitor, Belcher or even Falcao.
> 
> See how he matches-up to these guys!
> 
> GSP in the meantime has been man-handling the entire WW division. He has fought only top competition and he has dominated. That is a fact.
> 
> I'm a GSP fan and i enjoy watching his fights. For me, the way he makes world class fighters look like they don't belong in the cage, is priceless. I don't care he's not finnishing fights. It's not like he's not trying.
> 
> But at the end of the day, the fact remains - GSP dominated.
> 
> He's the champion. It's up to the other fighters to elevate their game and find a way to stop him. So far, they've failed.


Im not trying to compare GSP and Bisping in terms of accomplishments and talent. I'm just saying that GSP employed a very similar strategy to Bisping against Kos last night and gets worshipped for it.

My point is that he out struck (jabbed and moved) a medicore striker for 5 rounds. You say Bisping hasnt beaten the top compeition and thats true, but Bisping has used those jab andd move tactics against decent enough strikers. Chris Leben for example, Akiyama. You could make the argument that these guys are better strikers than josh koscheck.

Not sure im expressing my point clearly enough, i just dont think out striking a medicore striker for a span of 5 rounds is any thing to go crazy about, whilst other fighters get hate for using a similar strategy. 

In front of his home town, i expected GSP to come out, make a statement and finish Koscheck, especially as the fight went on, Koscheck looked frightened in there. GSP could have put him away.

Either way it doesnt really matter that much, GSP is still number 1 p4p, whether he finishes fights or not. I really want to see Penn steam roll Fitch and have one last shot!


----------



## towwffc

valrond said:


> Well, when Anderson had already defended his title against Marquardt at UFC 73, GSP STARTED his current run at UFC 74 against Koschek. The thing is, Silva showed he was able to go to the cage injured, make a bad performance for 23 minutes, get rocked, and still win. GSP was Knocked Out by Serra at UFC 69, he didn't recover. Sure, he is a much better GSP now, but except for this last fight, where Kos was able to stuff the takedowns, his blueprint was the same: Take the guy down in the first 30 secs of the round, and keep him down, doing damage in the process, keeping the risks at minumum. A smart strategy,for sure, but a little boring sometimes.
> 
> In his 5 title defenses since he destroyed Serra for the title, he has gone to decision in all of them, except when Penn bailed out at the 4th. He has won all of the rounds, if I'm not mistaken, but he hasn't stopped nobody, which is why he still isn't a clear cut #1.
> 
> Silva, on the other side, Silva, on his 7 title defenses, he has gone to decision only twice, and yes, Sonnen was on top of him 4 and a half rounds, but he still lost. And in the meantime, he fought twice at 205, with a total fighting time of 4:24, and did beat Lutter for what would be his first title defense. In total, 7-0 in title fights and 3-0 in no title fights since he got the belt, 10-0 with only two fights going the distance.


Ok, I think if we are truly talking about who is p4p currently, then what happened in the past doesn't matter that much. It doesn't matter that GSP was ko'd years ago by Serra, and it doesn't matter that Silva successfully fought at 205. Try to be open to what I am saying here. In the case of p4p, when you have two fighters who have been so impressive, then the last fight is what counts the most. Not what happened years ago.

Now Silva came dangerously close to losing a 5 round shut-out in his natural weight class. Which imo is not good when making a case for #1p4p. If Silva would not have caught Chael, there wouldn't even be room for debate. Anderson probably wouldn't even be able to be considered #2p4p after losing in such one sided fashion. He did not lose the fight but he was utterly dominated, rocked, dropped, and lost all rounds up until the finish.

GSP did not finish. However was never in danger. Completely controlled the entire fight from start to finish. Did the most damage to his opponent without taking any himself. Overall, just like his last performances a pretty flawless victory.

I'm not trying to sound like a fanboy, just trying to be realistic. It is flawed reasoning to give Anderson the edge just because his fights are more exciting. *When we are talking about who is the BEST, a flawless victory is more acceptable than a come from behind victory.* Keep in mind GSP was at the post fight press conference while Kos was in the hospital. And Chael was at the post fight press conference while Anderson was in the hospital. IMO the triangle finish isn't enough to override all of that.


----------



## No_Mercy

Squirrelfighter said:


> I know seriously. And those combinations he was using against Koscheck as well, and when he started using a lead hook in the latter rounds, and when he tried to take his back and go for the RNC. What the hell, GSP asucks!:sarcastic12:
> 
> *To OP: GSP outgrapples a guy, he's a safe fighter who dry humps his opponent. GSP stands with a guy but doesn't KO him, he's a crappy fighter. It what magical land of trolls does that make sense?[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Agreed. Does anybody realize that GSP kept the fight standing for the first time in a very long time or ever in his UFC career to shut KOS and everybody else up.
> 
> 
> 
> Soojooko said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just watched the fight.
> 
> Twas painful. I didn't watch the last round. For all the banter about GSP tooling Koscheck... I didn't believe it 100%. But that was masterful. Pure ownage.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed it was. See below for my analysis.
> 
> 
> 
> sworddemon said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you guys are keeping track, the haters want GSP to fight more recklessly, fight without a game plan, fight without using wrestling, fight without respecting the strengths of his opponents and try to KO everyone who steps in the octagon. There's a reason guys like that are never the champ.
> 
> 
> 
> He's sticks with a solid game plan from the beginning to the end. He's the perfect vessel for Danaher, Jackson, Nurse, and Zarabi. He's like the Universal Soldier. Now he just needs to hit the kill switch.
> 
> 
> 
> oldfan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really get the people who are "disappointed". To find fault with gsp for not finishing and give Kos no credit for hanging in there, makes no sense.
> 
> Do you want this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Awesome jpeg my man. That is what inspired the movie based on what Ridley Scott said.
> 
> Overall one can't please everyone. GSP wins by GNP and the haters complain about it. THIS TIME he switches it up entirely and keeps it standing and lo behold there's still complaints. He didn't finish, we ALL GET IT. Guess what though he fought an incredible fight and he PUNISHED KOS for all five rounds. To me this is like a shutout in Hockey or getting bagled in tennis 6-0. It's very satisfying if you ask me. KOS had absolutely nothing to offer.
> 
> Analyze the fight.
> 
> - inside leg kick to the lead leg to keep him off balance and more importantly to prevent him from shooting in
> - outside leg kick to further do damage to the lead leg
> - threw in a few right crosses + combos & takedowns to mix it up
> - majority of the fight was won by the left jab and in the latter rounds the lead left hook. This was to counter KOS right overhand.
> 
> I think expectations are very high now for GSP that people want to see Shogun/BJ/Anderson Silva/Cain type of finishes. All fighters and champs have different attributes. His fighting attributes are one of ATHLETICISM, FINESSE AND STYLE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## rezin

Mckeever said:


> Im not trying to compare GSP and Bisping in terms of accomplishments and talent. I'm just saying that GSP employed a very similar strategy to Bisping against Kos last night and gets worshipped for it.
> 
> My point is that he out struck (jabbed and moved) a medicore striker for 5 rounds. You say Bisping hasnt beaten the top compeition and thats true, but Bisping has used those jab andd move tactics against decent enough strikers. Chris Leben for example, Akiyama. You could make the argument that these guys are better strikers than josh koscheck.
> 
> Not sure im expressing my point clearly enough, i just dont think out striking a medicore striker for a span of 5 rounds is any thing to go crazy about, whilst other fighters get hate for using a similar strategy.
> 
> In front of his home town, i expected GSP to come out, make a statement and finish Koscheck, especially as the fight went on, Koscheck looked frightened in there. GSP could have put him away.
> 
> Either way it doesnt really matter that much, GSP is still number 1 p4p, whether he finishes fights or not. I really want to see Penn steam roll Fitch and have one last shot!


Did Anderson outstrike a mediocre striker in Chael, no because Chael dictated where the fight takes place. That is the true greatness in GSP, he is either very good/exceptional in every facet of MMA. Kos is IMO almost the equivalent of Chael with better striking and maybe slightly less wrestling skill and look what GSP did to Kos. Look at what Anderson did to Chael. 

If one wants to use the whole hasnt lost in god knows how long test, that is truly fine with me but in that case you really would have to say that AS has only been P4P for about 6 months since Fedor only lost recently to Werdum. Fedor previously hadnt lost for god knows how long yet ppl bought into Dana's theory that you must look at recent competition and domination when deciding to the P4P.

If you use that analogy, no one has matched GSPs level of dominance. The only hurt he has had in the past 20 rounds was a groin tear otherwise he has been unscathed in a manner I have never seen. Every other dominant fighter has had moments where they looked to be in deep trouble from Fedor to Liddell to Hughes, to Penn, no one has absolutely tooled opposition.

The fact that GSP hasnt finished makes it even more amazing in that his opponents have had so much additional time to even touch GSP yet no one has done a thing to him.


----------



## thrshr01

towwffc said:


> *When we are talking about who is the BEST, a flawless victory is more acceptable than a come from behind victory.*


QTF!

And to take it even further, I'd say it's not more acceptable, but the only way to judge who the the best is. Getting dominated for 4.5 rounds and showing heart by pulling a come from behind sub is great and shows tremendous heart. But for those 4.5 minutes, you were clearly not the best. In fact, you were dominated. Finisher or not, GSP absolutely dominates his opponents and makes word class fighters look like scrubs.


----------



## streetpunk08

I don't really have any problem with GSP's performance but I don't understand this mentality that in order to finish an opponent you have to get sloppy. Have you ever watched boxing? Or some of Anderson's fights or BJ's fights. Mixing in a hook or an uppercut to try and finish doesn't make you sloppy. There are alot of technical wizards that obliterate opponents, pick up a Mike Tyson DVD or an Anderson Silva highlight video. It lookeds like to me GSP just flat out doesn't have confidence throwing any of his other punches besides the jab and the occasional superman punch.


----------



## TheBestUserName

The GSP haters are talking out of both sides of their mouths, and it seems to have gone unnoticed. Whenever GSP is scheduled to defend his title, the haters start talking up the contender with what they can and will do to him. Then, upon said contender being thoroughly and completely dominated, everyone cries about how 'easy' it was to 'finish' him. I guess I must have missed something?

To my knowledge, GSP is not a KO artist. Besides overwhelming very weak opponents in the beginning of his career, he is not a KO fighter with '1 punch KO power.' He's also not a virtuoso with BJJ. Where is he supposed to be acquiring this 'ease' of finishing power from? I really don't want to read 'he could have easily finished him' again. Seriously...sitting in front of computer screens and judging how 'easy' it is for someone of world class caliber to be 'finished,' doesn't exactly come off as an educated statement.

GSP learned what his weakness and strength was when he faced Serra. His weakness is punching power when standing and winging his fists with power punchers. (Serra, Kos) His strength is intelligence and scheming. Right now, he's beating people who have superior wrestling (Kos, Hughes, Fitch on paper) superior Power (Serra, Kos, Alves) superior BJJ (Penn) with HIS strength; Intelligence, scheming, game planning. Until the rules of the UFC change (and I think they should, 10 point must system was made for a different sport and makes NO SENSE in MMA.) GSP is either 1 or 2 P4P right now. 

Winning is achieved in several ways, but a dominant decision is (unfortunately for haters) still one of them. Until someone can STOP him from winning, there really is no validity in the argument to discredit his skill based on lack of finishes (recently) against world class opponents who (arguably) have better pedigrees in several aspects of the MMA game. 

-end


----------



## limba

Mckeever said:


> Im not trying to compare GSP and Bisping in terms of accomplishments and talent. I'm just saying that GSP employed a very similar strategy to Bisping against Kos last night and gets worshipped for it.
> 
> My point is that he out struck (jabbed and moved) a medicore striker for 5 rounds. You say Bisping hasnt beaten the top compeition and thats true, but Bisping has used those jab andd move tactics against decent enough strikers. Chris Leben for example, Akiyama. You could make the argument that these guys are better strikers than josh koscheck.
> 
> Not sure im expressing my point clearly enough, i just dont think out striking a medicore striker for a span of 5 rounds is any thing to go crazy about, whilst other fighters get hate for using a similar strategy.
> 
> In front of his home town, i expected GSP to come out, make a statement and finish Koscheck, especially as the fight went on, Koscheck looked frightened in there. GSP could have put him away.
> 
> Either way it doesnt really matter that much, GSP is still number 1 p4p, whether he finishes fights or not. I really want to see Penn steam roll Fitch and have one last shot!


On Bisping: I'm no Bisping fan and i don't hate the guy. I'm like "whatever". And honestly i don't think that many people hate him for his style in the cage. It's more about him talking about the belt or a top contender's spot, without fighting against the recognised top contenders. If i were MB i would come out and ask for the top fighters, to make a statement: i'm not affraid to get in the mix, no matter what.

On St. Pierre: 
I don't think he gets worshipped. I'm a big fan, but i don't take it that far.
Sure, i have respect for his accomplishements and his skill-set, the way he puts together plans and strategies and executes them.

On another note: comparing GSP to Bisping is a nonsense. I think this was the first time GSP used similar tactics. 
GSP is the best WW in the world for the last 4 years. And nobody came even close to beating him. 
Thing with GSP is: he beat top level wrestlers - Hughes, Kos and Fitch, top level strikers - BJ, Hardy or Alves and top level grapplers - BJ and Serra. He beat them on the stand-up, he outwrestled them or outgrappled them.
He didn't finnish his last fights, but he was dominant.

Fact is, he just isn't the type of fighter Anderson or BJ is. He'll never be. 

As a fan of his - i don't care. I enjoy watching him display amazing skills in his fights.

He might not be a knock-out artist/a finnisher, but at this moment, there is no doubt in my mind, he is the most complete fighter in the world. 
Georges St. Pierre represents the best combination of wrestling, striking, grappling, cardio/endurance, strength, game plans/execution, intelligence, fair-play and humbleness.

GSP is everything that "A" stands for in MMA.

He is the "Artist"!


----------



## Soojooko

Mckeever said:


> Im not trying to compare GSP and Bisping in terms of accomplishments and talent. I'm just saying that GSP employed a very similar strategy to Bisping against Kos last night and gets worshipped for it.
> 
> My point is that he out struck (jabbed and moved) a medicore striker for 5 rounds. You say Bisping hasnt beaten the top compeition and thats true, but Bisping has used those jab andd move tactics against decent enough strikers. Chris Leben for example, Akiyama. You could make the argument that these guys are better strikers than josh koscheck.
> 
> Not sure im expressing my point clearly enough, i just dont think out striking a medicore striker for a span of 5 rounds is any thing to go crazy about, whilst other fighters get hate for using a similar strategy.
> 
> In front of his home town, i expected GSP to come out, make a statement and finish Koscheck, especially as the fight went on, Koscheck looked frightened in there. GSP could have put him away.
> 
> Either way it doesnt really matter that much, GSP is still number 1 p4p, whether he finishes fights or not. I really want to see Penn steam roll Fitch and have one last shot!


The difference is Bisping always fights like that. GSP can fight like that if he chooses. Rather than looking at the fight as GSP against a mediocre striker for 5 rounds... how about keeping one of the best wrestlers in the division on his feet for 5 rounds and jabbing him to death. Impressive if you ask me. GSP can utilize a myriad of strategies. Seeing him box Koscheck to a pulp was something quite new and therefore interesting to me. Seeing Bisping doing his thing, on the other hand, always feels like the same as all his fights.

Thats why this fight was far more entertaining than watching Bisping do essentially the same thing.

For the record, I'm a big fan of jab-and-move. I enjoy watching Bisping fight. He talks lots of shite also, which helps with the banter.


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy

lol.. wow a lot of you caught feelings about this whole p4p thing. I was stating my opinion sorry if it hurts yours. I wasn't saying you have to be a super KO artist. You guys act as if I called GSP a terrible fighter. I just believe he doesn't have a killer instinct that is very important in a combat sport. IN MY OPINION(I KNOW THIS IS GONNA HURT CUZ SOMEONE HAS AN OPINION), if GSP was put in the same position as Silva was and was losing to a fighter for 4 rounds.. the results would be quite different. You can agree to disagree no amount of "NOOOB GSP IS TIGHT" will change my opinion. People are acting as if hey, GSP is this master strategist who wasn't trying to KO the crap out of KOS but we all know(even gsp said) that he wanted to finish KOS.

Is it that hard to accept that after Serra, theres this fear of getting clocked again, that he just plays it safe to win. Almost like a phobia of getting hit again?

People point out the Chael fight as if Silva didn't walk out of there the champion. "He was losing till he won" doesn't make sense. Oh yeah.. is it hard to give Silva the credit of being good on the ground as he is standing up? He has subbed people on his back too ya know?

But whatever.. they're both great fighters. There will always be an argument between the two(Almost like Pacquioa vs Mayweather but not to that great extreme).


----------



## Soojooko

Notoriousxpinoy said:


> You guys act as if I called GSP a terrible fighter. I just believe he doesn't have a killer instinct that is very important in a combat sport.


Dude, you are making no sense. You claim GSP doesnt have a killer instinct. I can agree that there's an argument there. But, you go on to say a killer instinct is *very* important in comabt sports. Considering GSP is on a 30 round win streak, it cant be that important, no?


----------



## valrond

towwffc said:


> Ok, I think if we are truly talking about who is p4p currently, then what happened in the past doesn't matter that much. It doesn't matter that GSP was ko'd years ago by Serra, and it doesn't matter that Silva successfully fought at 205. Try to be open to what I am saying here. In the case of p4p, when you have two fighters who have been so impressive, then the last fight is what counts the most. Not what happened years ago.
> 
> Now Silva came dangerously close to losing a 5 round shut-out in his natural weight class. Which imo is not good when making a case for #1p4p. If Silva would not have caught Chael, there wouldn't even be room for debate. Anderson probably wouldn't even be able to be considered #2p4p after losing in such one sided fashion. He did not lose the fight but he was utterly dominated, rocked, dropped, and lost all rounds up until the finish.
> 
> GSP did not finish. However was never in danger. Completely controlled the entire fight from start to finish. Did the most damage to his opponent without taking any himself. Overall, just like his last performances a pretty flawless victory.
> 
> I'm not trying to sound like a fanboy, just trying to be realistic. It is flawed reasoning to give Anderson the edge just because his fights are more exciting. *When we are talking about who is the BEST, a flawless victory is more acceptable than a come from behind victory.* Keep in mind GSP was at the post fight press conference while Kos was in the hospital. And Chael was at the post fight press conference while Anderson was in the hospital. IMO the triangle finish isn't enough to override all of that.


Of course that recent events are much more important than the past, and I think GSP more than avenged and erased his only two losses with Matt Hughes and Matt Serra, and if I had to pick someone to bet against would be GSP right now.

I'm not a GSP hater, on the contrary, I like the guy and the fighter, I think he's the most well rounded fighter, but he lacks an ability to finish fights, and that counts. Of course, the way GSP wins, winning every round, with the impression that the opponent is helpless, also counts. A lot.

However, Silva still didn't lose, he didn't get a controversial split decision, he finished the guy, that even turned out positive in drug testing, so even if he had defeated Silva, it wouldn't have counted.

And that's why I say why GSP is not a clear #1 p4p, Silva's streak is more impressive than GSP's, and until Silva doesn't lose, we'll continue debating who's #1.


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## thrshr01

Notoriousxpinoy said:


> people point out the Chael fight as if Silva didn't walk out of there the champion. "He was losing till he won" doesn't make sense.
> 
> There will always be an argument between the two(Almost like Pacquioa vs Mayweather but not to that great extreme).


I find it funny that you whole heartedly defend your opinion (which is fine) but discredit others saying that Silva was losing for 4.5 rounds which is not an opinion but a *fact*

I must respectfully disagree with your last sentence. Whether they fight or not, the Pacman is better than Mayweather :thumb02:


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## demoman993

This fight is kind of a dead issue to me now. It's clearly obvious that people are gonna hate on georges no matter what he does. He just put on an absolute clinic and people are complaining that he didn't take any risks. An mma fighter is risking their life every time they get in that cage. Anyone that doesnt believe that should go train with these guys and see how hard they actually hit. Gsp took a big uppercut and a handful of power shots from koscheck in that fight and kept dishing the punishment. 

It's time for the haters to move onto a new target, gsp is the king of his division and right now just as dominant as silva is. Just because I say that gsp is just as dominant as silva doesn't mean I'm saying that he would beat silva. I'm just pointing out that the ww division has been completely dominated by gsp as has the mw division by sonnen.

Although a super fight between gsp and silva would be a massive ppv event, I am content to watch #1 contenders get destroyed time and time again by gsp and silva.


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## Soojooko

Before this thread disappears, I would like to say "owned" one last time.


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## Mckeever

limba said:


> On Bisping: I'm no Bisping fan and i don't hate the guy. I'm like "whatever". And honestly i don't think that many people hate him for his style in the cage. It's more about him talking about the belt or a top contender's spot, without fighting against the recognised top contenders. If i were MB i would come out and ask for the top fighters, to make a statement: i'm not affraid to get in the mix, no matter what.
> 
> On St. Pierre:
> I don't think he gets worshipped. I'm a big fan, but i don't take it that far.
> Sure, i have respect for his accomplishements and his skill-set, the way he puts together plans and strategies and executes them.
> 
> On another note: comparing GSP to Bisping is a nonsense. I think this was the first time GSP used similar tactics.
> GSP is the best WW in the world for the last 4 years. And nobody came even close to beating him.
> Thing with GSP is: he beat top level wrestlers - Hughes, Kos and Fitch, top level strikers - BJ, Hardy or Alves and top level grapplers - BJ and Serra. He beat them on the stand-up, he outwrestled them or outgrappled them.
> He didn't finnish his last fights, but he was dominant.
> 
> Fact is, he just isn't the type of fighter Anderson or BJ is. He'll never be.
> 
> As a fan of his - i don't care. I enjoy watching him display amazing skills in his fights.
> 
> He might not be a knock-out artist/a finnisher, but at this moment, there is no doubt in my mind, he is the most complete fighter in the world.
> Georges St. Pierre represents the best combination of wrestling, striking, grappling, cardio/endurance, strength, game plans/execution, intelligence, fair-play and humbleness.
> 
> GSP is everything that "A" stands for in MMA.
> 
> He is the "Artist"!


i'm not saying you worship GSP, but i think he does get worshipped by A LOT of other fans. 

I agree with pretty much all of your post and imo like i said, GSP is currently number 1 p4p. That said, i can never supprt him though. You said it best yourself when you said GSP will never be the type of fighter Anderson is or BJ Penn. Because he lacks that killer instinct. I dont think he lacks the power to finish his opponents, he just lacks that instict. Similar to a recent Brandon Vera, for what ever reason, he cant pull the trigger any more, even though he has the tools and potential to end fights.

Not just that though, i can never support GSP after the entire greasing fiasco. I just cant trust GSP or ever root for him after this controversy.

I still think BJ is GSPS's only true test and his arch nemesis.


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## Erem Kell

*own opinons*

wow, this thread is really going long. It only means that all are defending their own opinion like me. You don't need killer instinct to win on mma, you just need strategy and the heart to win. I still go for GSP, as he is my favorite fighter.


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## slapshot

Mckeever said:


> Im not trying to compare GSP and Bisping in terms of accomplishments and talent. I'm just saying that GSP employed a very similar strategy to Bisping against Kos last night and gets worshipped for it.
> 
> My point is that he out struck (jabbed and moved) a medicore striker for 5 rounds. You say Bisping hasnt beaten the top compeition and thats true, but Bisping has used those jab andd move tactics against decent enough strikers. Chris Leben for example, Akiyama. You could make the argument that these guys are better strikers than josh koscheck.
> 
> Not sure im expressing my point clearly enough, i just dont think out striking a medicore striker for a span of 5 rounds is any thing to go crazy about, whilst other fighters get hate for using a similar strategy.
> 
> In front of his home town, i expected GSP to come out, make a statement and finish Koscheck, especially as the fight went on, Koscheck looked frightened in there. GSP could have put him away.
> 
> Either way it doesnt really matter that much, GSP is still number 1 p4p, whether he finishes fights or not. I really want to see Penn steam roll Fitch and have one last shot!


I think people weigh stats differently and thats where the debate is, wile to me finishing a fighter means little and a win is a win to some KO's have more weight than decisions.

And wile KOS is not the KO artist rogan was hyping him as, he is still a solid striker these days and there is always that risk.

Lets not forget KOS is one of the best MMA wrestlers as well so when you put the fight back together after you analyze it, I still came to the conclusion that GSP dominated a top five fighter almost effortlessly standing and on the ground, that in my mind is still impressive.


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## limba

Mckeever said:


> i'm not saying you worship GSP, but i think he does get worshipped by A LOT of other fans.
> 
> I agree with pretty much all of your post and imo like i said, GSP is currently number 1 p4p. That said, i can never supprt him though. You said it best yourself when you said GSP will never be the type of fighter Anderson is or BJ Penn. Because he lacks that killer instinct. I dont think he lacks the power to finish his opponents, he just lacks that instict. Similar to a recent Brandon Vera, for what ever reason, he cant pull the trigger any more, even though he has the tools and potential to end fights.
> 
> Not just that though, i can never support GSP after the entire greasing fiasco. I just cant trust GSP or ever root for him after this controversy.
> 
> I still think BJ is GSPS's only true test and his arch nemesis.


GSP isn't like Silva and BJ - YES!

But he has a killer instinct. In fact, all MMA fighters have that killer instinct: getting in the cage trying to punch the other fighter in the face, or trying to choke him. That's instinct!

Back to GSP: i think he has it also, but it's being blocked a bit by his rational conscience (or something like that).
It's his self-preservation instinct that is preventing him from risking it more than he should. 

When you look at his recent fights, you can't deny he didn't want to end any of those fights. Big GnP against Fitch, Alves or BJ; tried to force a tap from Hardy on 2 occasions; gave Kos the worst beating of his career.

Honestly i believe beating someone for 5 rounds is far more impressive than earning a KO. (although not as impressive as a 3-4 round domination followed by a stoppage)
It sends a message: "i beat you for 5 minutes, you had a break to re-think you strategy and after that i beat you again for 5 minutes. again break...again a beating". 

This is devastating for the fighter that loses. It creates doubt in his mind, makes that fighter doubt his skills, his qualities, his training, all the efforts he put to achieve that moment, that special fight - for the title. So close and yet...so far. Take Koscheck for example. I bet this loss is far more painful to him than the TKO loss against Paulo Thiago. Because he knows that stuff like that happens - an opening, a mistake, miscalculating your steps, leaving your guard down - sometimes it happens: you get caught and you lose. You continue. But when a guy keeps beating you for 25 minutes, does almost everything he wants in the ring, you start counting down the seconds till the fight is over. 
This is what i like about GSP. The way he dominates. He creates in your subconscious the idea of him being invincible. The more the fight goes on and he dominates you, the more you feel like maybe you don't belong in there with him. 
With every round that passes, it's like him giving you more time to do something about his dominant fighting and you failing in your attempts.

I know, St. Pierre doesn't think this way and he wants to finnish fights. 
I also think this is more about the subconscious, taking over without him even noticing one way or the other.

And don't worry, he will finnish fights again. I predict his next fight will be a TKO win for GSP!

PS: hope you enjoyed the read


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## slapshot

You guys get all wrapped up in p4p rankings and its a total fantasy ranking and therefore completely subjective = its BS.


I wish people would start using "mano a mano" which means fist to fist, its saying what would really happen if you put Aldo in with Brock Lesnar.

It would be a more relevant ranking system, p4p is a broken system that's not dependable or valid.


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## suniis

slapshot said:


> I* think people weigh stats differently and thats where the debate is, wile to me finishing a fighter means little and a win is a win to some KO's have more weight than decisions.*
> And wile KOS is not the KO artist rogan was hyping him as, he is still a solid striker these days and there is always that risk.
> 
> Lets not forget KOS is one of the best MMA wrestlers as well so when you put the fight back together after you analyze it, I still came to the conclusion that GSP dominated a top five fighter almost effortlessly standing and on the ground, that in my mind is still impressive.


I think this is where the debate lies.

Some people think that total domination over the entire division is what matters, while others give the edge to the one who always finds a way to win/finish, even when being dominated.
I think there is a case for both fighters here, and there is no right or wrong answer.

I personally give #1 P4P to GSP, because in spite of his lack of finishes since the post Serra 2 fight, he has fought really tough competition, and absolutely dismantled them.
Not giving up a single round, never being in trouble, dictating where the fight will take place, and having the tools and versatility to stand with wrestlers and take strikers to the ground.

Yes, he may lack that killer instinct, yes, he may fight smart (i.e. not taking risks) but in the end, nobody’s been able to stop him, not even close.

AS has different tools, and has been able to come back from bad situations many times. He can finish the fight in an instant, in spectacular fashion.
But he hasn’t dominated every single one of his opponents like GSP has, and that’s what matters to me, when it comes to P4P status.

This reminds me of the MK analogy used earlier:

AS loses sometimes a good chunk of his health bar, but not only wins the fight, he also gets the almighty FATALITY!!!

GSP gets flawless victory after flawless victory...

To each his own...


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## Jags

Anyone seen any Interviews after the fight with Kos and GSP? I aint seen any with anyone??? normally Ariel Helwani has them all.


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## BobbyCooper

Well done George! He is indeed the greatest!

I can't call the number one p4p fighter anymore :dunno:


Loved the way Kos acted after the fight. He is a good guy!


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## Rauno

BobbyCooper said:


> Well done George! He is indeed the greatest!
> 
> I can't call the number one p4p fighter anymore :dunno:
> 
> 
> Loved the way Kos acted after the fight. He is a good guy!


Only from the inside. That haircut reeks of evilness.


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## valrond

suniis said:


> I think this is where the debate lies.
> 
> Some people think that total domination over the entire division is what matters, while others give the edge to the one who always finds a way to win/finish, even when being dominated.
> I think there is a case for both fighters here, and there is no right or wrong answer.
> 
> I personally give #1 P4P to GSP, because in spite of his lack of finishes since the post Serra 2 fight, he has fought really tough competition, and absolutely dismantled them.
> Not giving up a single round, never being in trouble, dictating where the fight will take place, and having the tools and versatility to stand with wrestlers and take strikers to the ground.
> 
> Yes, he may lack that killer instinct, yes, he may fight smart (i.e. not taking risks) but in the end, nobody’s been able to stop him, not even close.
> 
> AS has different tools, and has been able to come back from bad situations many times. He can finish the fight in an instant, in spectacular fashion.
> But he hasn’t dominated every single one of his opponents like GSP has, and that’s what matters to me, when it comes to P4P status.
> 
> This reminds me of the MK analogy used earlier:
> 
> AS loses sometimes a good chunk of his health bar, but not only wins the fight, he also gets the almighty FATALITY!!!
> 
> GSP gets flawless victory after flawless victory...
> 
> To each his own...


The only problem I see is that GSP is the best sportsman in MMA, cause he takes every fight as a match. The objective is to win, and to that end, he gets the most points possible. It's like he enjoys staying on the cage demonstrating that he's the superior fighter, and that the other poor guy can't do anything.

Anderson Silva is the best fighter, he goes to fight, and when you fight, the objective is not winning, but beating your opponent, and there are two ways: KO or submission. AS has gone to decission twice in his 12 UFC fights, and in those fights he received a lot of flak and criticism. GSP does it all the time, and he doesn't get the flak, well, only from haters, but hey, haters gonna hate.

I'm not hating GSP, I think that simply the guy can't lose at welterwight, no matter who you put in front, he'll win the 5 rounds and get the win. But there seems to be a double standard.

Oh, and even if Silva had lost to Sonnen, he was on drugs, so it wouldn't even count.


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## TanyaJade

Hell, give me rational conscience and fight IQ over killer instinct any day.

At the end of the day, it's not about how you win, it's about the result itself.


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## oldfan

This thread is going to last longer than Kos's black eye:thumbsdown:


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## TanyaJade

valrond said:


> The only problem I see is that GSP is the best sportsman in MMA, cause he takes every fight as a match. The objective is to win, and to that end, he gets the most points possible. It's like he enjoys staying on the cage demonstrating that he's the superior fighter, and that the other poor guy can't do anything.
> 
> *Anderson Silva is the best fighter, he goes to fight, and when you fight, the objective is not winning, but beating your opponent, and there are two ways: KO or submission.* AS has gone to decission twice in his 12 UFC fights, and in those fights he received a lot of flak and criticism. GSP does it all the time, and he doesn't get the flak, well, only from haters, but hey, haters gonna hate.
> 
> I'm not hating GSP, I think that simply the guy can't lose at welterwight, no matter who you put in front, he'll win the 5 rounds and get the win. But there seems to be a double standard.
> 
> Oh, and even if Silva had lost to Sonnen, he was on drugs, so it wouldn't even count.


Your arguement doesn't make any sense. You say that (and I quote) 



> "The objective is to win, and to that end, he gets the most points possible. It's like he enjoys going out there for 5 rounds and showing he's the better fighter.


But then you argue against it? With all due respect, but am I reading this right? Isn't this whole sport about showing who the better fighter/athlete is?

With regards to what I bolded, MMA is a sport. The objective of all sports is to win from the athlete's point of view, is to win. I'm not dissing fighters who go for the finish, but a smart fighter only goes for the finish when he knows he can finish. Why take a risk, and try going for the finish when the fighter isn't hurt, or in a compromising position? That's like Chael Sonnen knocking Maia down, and going for the kill even though Maia only tripped and was waiting for Sonnen like a venus fly trap. That's like Chuck Liddell swinging for the fences after getting rocked by Rampage (I know these didn't actually happen, but you get the idea). How logical do either of those sound? MMA has moved past the stage of being a freak show, and is now starting to become a legitimized sport. Ask yourself this, is the objective of football, basketball, baseball, or hockey to see how big of a beatdown you can put on the opposing team, and how exciting you can make the sport? No. If that was the case, basketball would be nothing but dunks and long range three-pointers. Tom Brady would be throwing wild hail mary passes every play. Alex Ovechkin would try and hit 223970423 slapshots. Every baseball player would swing the bat with reckless abandon trying to hit a home run.

Guess what?

A basketball player will get stopped going to the basket, and he will miss most of his three pointers.

Tom Brady would throw a ludicrous ammount of interceptions, and give the ball away to the defense.

Ovechkin would miss most of his shots and wind up costing his team the game.

A baseball player would strike out 99% of the time.

Why should GSP go out there and fight like Leonard Garcia? To excite the fans? Incase you didn't notice, he's in the cage with another fighter who wants to beat the hell out of him. Why would he not want to avoid as much damage as possible while, and sticks to a gameplan that will guide him to winning? When GSP is fighting, or training for a fight, I guarantee you that he is not focused on how exciting he wants to make the fight. He's thinking about how he is going to win, and how he is going to avoid making mistakes so he can capitalize on the mistakes of his opponent.

With regards to your statement that:



> "there is only one way to beat your opponent: KO, or Submission"


Did you watch GSP vs. Kos? Did you watch his fights against Fitch? Alves? Penn? Hardy?

If you make that statement to any educated MMA fan, you will get laughed in your face with no apologies. GSP "beat" all of those fighters, and made them look like they had no business being in the cage. 

I'm not trying to disrespect you, but your arguement really makes no sense.

GSP can inflict damage, take minimal damage, and completely embarrass and outclass his top of the line opponents. Do you REALLY think it was the drugs that were the difference in Sonnen's fight against Silva?

That alone should tell you who the better fighter is.


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## astrallite

GSP is a true martial artist. He shows you that technique can win battles, not having an iron fist and an unbreakable jaw.

GSP has not finished a fight in a long time, sure, but I enjoy watching him "Bruce Lee" somebody for 25 minutes and make them look like a clown.

This is the true spirit of martial arts. Why do you think he is the only MMA athlete sponsed by Gatorade, Under Armor, and ESPN? Sorry guys, it's not because he is a thug brawler in a cage like what people are turned off about of MMA. 

He is the most marketable athlete in the sport for the same reasons why people love karate kid--they want to cheer for the skilled guy fighting off against thugs.


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## valrond

Perhaps I'm an old fashioned guy, and I think a fight is not just a sport contest. It's not a basketball, baseball of football game. UFC started not like a sport, but who could beat who, and when I mean beat, I mean beat, now win. Only way to win was KO or submission, and that's it, no timelimits, no decisions.

Now, it has evolved as a sport, and now you can control your opponent and win a decision. Score points, and get the W. And as I said, as a SPORT, GSP is the best out there, he gets the most points and doesn't risk himself.

But as a martial art, that, by the way, means art of war, fighting a guy for 25 minutes is not very efficient.

When you told me that I'm arguing against myself, well, I was not, I was remembering Rocky and Rocky II. Apollo got the decision, he won, but he didn't beat him. In his own worlds: "Man, I won, but I didn't beat him" (Rocky II, minute 48, when Apollo is talking to Duke).

Now, GSP doesn't get split decisions, or controversials, he wins every round, he hurts his opponents, make them look like shit, but his opponent is never out, keeps fighting and defending himself, until time runs out. And that also counts.

Oh, by the way, I think that right now GSP would be #1 P4P. Since he lost to Serra, he hasn't lost a round, and he hasn't even been in danger of losing. But I was just making the case why some people like DW say AS is still #1.


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