# Donald Cerrone?



## 2kni3 (Nov 21, 2009)

I don`t get it .. this guy goes from a very competitive super close fight with Ben henderson ..

Nate Diaz on the other hand loses to Joe Daddy stevenson

yet Donald Cerrone loses to Nate diaz .. I mean this was not a ground war .. he got picked apart by jabs

something did not seem right .. it could be me being paranoid or it could be the UFC turning into BOXING aka rigged lol

thoughts ?!


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Nate Diaz is also 24 right now, and was 21 when he lost to Joe Stevenson. He isn't even in his prime yet, and the last two fights, he's made huge progress. Did you not watch Nate vs Gomi? that was just another top performance by Diaz, and shows his ever evolving game.

If he keeps progressing like this, he will be a true contender in the future.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

I don't see what they'd have to gain by rigging it for Nate, aside from maybe giving Nate a title shot so he and Nick could be sold as brother champions.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

I agree that something felt off. Cerrone made a bad habit early in his career of starting really slow and I think it just came back to bite him in the ass. Also a mix of Cerrone not moving his head and Diaz having excellent boxing (seriously his accuracy was retarded) compounded that from the start of round one, when Cerrone started slow again, Diaz was laying it on him hard. I think when Cerrone finally kicked into gear he had just taken too much damage. It's got to be really fuckin' hard to shake those cobwebs out when you're getting hit in the face that much.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I'm not the biggest Cerone fan you are going to find, but he didn't even show up. While I respect what the Diaz brothers do I could never expect that fight out of Cerrone and Nate Diaz, hell I even voted for Nate. Cerrone had a stroke, pre-dumped, etc. 

It doesn't matter, the winner at the end of this fight was as clear as day.


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## Shoegazer (Jun 23, 2007)

I think Nate's just that good now.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

He got exposed tonight, plain and simple.

There was no urgency, and he knew damn good and well he was only a win or two away from a title shot throw that in with his lack of head movement and his willingness to scrap, I like Cerrone so I don't like putting it like this, but simply put this guy just doesn't want to be Champ, he didn't try to win, he just wanted to punch a guy in the face.

And once again, another Lightweight contender falls to the side, and the same will happen to Nate when it's his turn to scrap with a wrestler, this marks the fourth time this year this has happened, Edgar wants a challenge? He's either gonna get it in the form of Maynard one more time, Aldo, or a Featherweight.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

2kni3 said:


> I don`t get it .. this guy goes from a very competitive super close fight with Ben henderson ..
> 
> Nate Diaz on the other hand loses to Joe Daddy stevenson
> 
> ...


Cerrone got subbed in under 2 minutes in his last fight with Bendo, you know, the most relevant one. he's never had great defense as well.

Nate lost to Stevenson because Stevenson used a gameplan that is nearly a sure thing against the Diaz bros and that is sticking to them like glue. that fight was also what? 3 years ago..

Last but not least....styles make fights bra.


P.S can you tell the differences between jabs,hooks and straights? obviously not.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> He got exposed tonight, plain and simple.
> 
> There was no urgency, and he knew damn good and well he was only a win or two away from a title shot throw that in with his lack of head movement and his willingness to scrap, I like Cerrone so I don't like putting it like this, but simply put this guy just doesn't want to be Champ, he didn't try to win, he just wanted to punch a guy in the face.
> 
> And once again, another Lightweight contender falls to the side, and the same will happen to Nate when it's his turn to scrap with a wrestler, this marks the fourth time this year this has happened, Edgar wants a challenge? He's either gonna get it in the form of Maynard one more time, Aldo, or a Featherweight.


We usually see different sides of the same coin. Now I see your side, and I have to admit it is hard to argue with.

+rep

WTF must spread rep before repping*

Sorry man!


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

Please.

Cerrone had looked mighty impressive in his last few fights, but Nate Diaz has been improving rapidly, especially in the standup, over the last few years.

Cerrone let the stage, hype, trash talk etc. get to him and he came out too strong and got schooled by a _better pure boxer_. 

The fight wasn't rigged. Lol.


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## dav35 (Sep 30, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> *Nate Diaz is also 24 right now*, and was 21 when he lost to Joe Stevenson. He isn't even in his prime yet, and the last two fights, he's made huge progress. Did you not watch Nate vs Gomi? that was just another top performance by Diaz, and shows his ever evolving game.
> 
> If he keeps progressing like this, he will be a true contender in the future.


nate is 26


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I would have lost a lot of money had I bet on this fight. The Diaz brothers continously to surprise everyone. Their swarming tactics just take elite strikers off their games. I clearly thought that Donald had it, but from the very first 10 seconds it was Diaz who dragged him into his world.

I still havn't figured it out, but it's like this little pesty BEE that you can't flick off and it keeps stinging you repeatedly. It just gets you madd and agitated...lolz! Very amusing stuff. 

FOTN right here...


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

This topic lacks so much context it's absurd.

First of all the Joe Stevenson that beat Nate would probably beat the Benson that beat Cowboy the first time. 
Secondly, Cowboy didn't "come off a super close decision to Bendo"....the last they fought, Benson made quick work of him.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Its plain and simple, I kind of saw it coming but refused to acknowledge it. 

Cerrone doesn't have great stand up, he has decent kicks but his boxing is borderline horrible. Varner, Henderson, Kelly and others were all able to hit him good boxing. His win over Oliveira was likely a fluke and his win over Siver put the exclamation mark on Siver's highly overrated striking. 

Cerrone has pretty darn good grappling though and it was disappointing to see that he refused to use it in this fight. Diaz had him worked up and you could see it right from the beginning of the fight when Cerrone came out guns blazing that he was only interested in taking Diaz's head off.

Diaz isn't a great fighter but that is for only one reason, wrestling. Both he and his brother have good boxing and submissions and only lose to wrestlers. Guida, Maynard, Stevenson, Kim, Macdonald all used their strength and superior wrestling to beat Diaz. Some of these guys and others that Diaz actually have beat were being outstruck by Diaz standing but because he couldn't keep it there he lost those fights. Had Cerrone of tried to outwrestle/grapple Diaz he likely could have pulled off the win but Diaz did what Diaz's do best and got inside his head and made him fight the game he wanted to. 

It probably didn't help either that Cerrone was likely hurt in the first round. As Rogan mentioned the way he had his mouth open was strange whether it was because of a broken jaw, broken nose or whatever it seems something was bugging him.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Not its the fact that you and many others have yet to accept that the Diaz brothers are very good boxers who pepper anyone with punches. And they don't get hurt by a few punches, if they do they shake it off in a few seconds.

People overrated Cerrone. He has 1 TKO/KO in his whole MMA career. And most of you guys underrated Nate. 

Happens all the time. Like how Nick couldn't stand with Penn. 

Nate Diaz has beat top guys before. 

*The Diaz brothers have only had trouble with wrestlers in their whole careers. So maybe people should start realizing that they have a real good shot of winning vs. anyone who doesn't look for takedowns.*


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

420atalon said:


> Its plain and simple, I kind of saw it coming but refused to acknowledge it.
> 
> Cerrone doesn't have great stand up, he has decent kicks but his boxing is borderline horrible. Varner, Henderson, Kelly and others were all able to hit him good boxing. * His win over Oliveira was likely a fluke* and his win over Siver put the exclamation mark on Siver's highly overrated striking.
> 
> ...


Stopped reading right there.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Guy Incognito said:


> Stopped reading right there.


Good for you. The guy has 1 tko win(that fight) and I can't think of another fight where he has even really rocked a fighter with punches(its usually kicks like the Siver fight). 

Sure his boxing isn't absolutely horrible but it is definitely mediocre at best. He makes up for it a little bit with his kicks but its hard to win a fight on leg kicks and the odd head kick attempt. 

Maybe fluke wasn't the right term but more along the lines of if you have 22 mma fights your bound to finally finish 1 by punches eventually...


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

Cerrone just came in and fought a very dumb fight. He has all the tools to beat Diaz but he didn't use them properly. If he was smart he would have kept his distance and thrown leg kicks at Diaz's long and thin legs. 
He swept Diaz MANY times, but for some stupid reason NEVER once followed him to the mat. He could have easily followed Diaz to the mat and at least worked some GnP or top control. Yes Diaz had good BJJ but so does Cerrone and it's not like he was doing well on his feet anyway. 
Defensively, Cerrone utilized NO head movement at all from the onset of the fight and at some points looked like a damn statue. 

I have to say I'm very disappointed in Cerrone tonight. I think personally he got too emotional and let Diaz get in his head and prevent him from fighting a smart fight. Props to Diaz, though. He looked fantastic tonight and he should be moving on into title contention soon.


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

Cerrone fought like a statue tonight, I think he lost the mental game early in the 1st.

I remember he had some tough fights in the WEC because he was a slow starter but his last two before tonight he was agressive, used great tactics and movement.

Diaz bros Inc boxing seems to be a tough puzzle for people to figure out. Not sure why Cowboy didn't try a few takedowns.

Nate dominated tonight.


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## halifaxdonair (Aug 27, 2011)

i always get a good laugh out of the pre fight comparison that rogan does. he gave the advantage to cowboy in every category. he gave jones the experience advantage over machida.


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## Ryan1522 (Oct 31, 2006)

St.Paul Guy said:


> Please.
> 
> Cerrone had looked mighty impressive in his last few fights, but Nate Diaz has been improving rapidly, especially in the standup, over the last few years.
> 
> ...


This is pretty much it. Cerrone came out too hard and his emotions got the better of him. Cerrone is clearly the stronger man and I was screaming for him to take it to the ground ( yes we know how slick Nate is at BJJ), but he was getting lit up on his feet.

Really bad performance by Cerrone. 

You can't make mistakes against someone as good as Nate.

I would love to see a rematch in the future becasue it was a damn entertaining fight and I'm disappointed in Cerrone.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

I'm a big Cerrone fan but I'm not delusional. Nate showed him what it takes to fight a top three lightweight and Cowboy is obviously not quite up to the task. He's a notorious slow starter and he doesn't move his head much. Against Diaz brand boxing that means you're pretty much screwed. 

Now off to the thread where guys laughed at me for claiming Nate is one of the best LWs on earth...


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Don't know what fight you guys were watching but cowboy won the second and third. As far as looking like crap in the first Cowboy does that every couple of fights it is a mental thing with him and his striking defense has always been bad.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

osmium said:


> Don't know what fight you guys were watching but cowboy won the second and third. As far as looking like crap in the first Cowboy does that every couple of fights it is a mental thing with him and his striking defense has always been bad.


I can see the second for Cowboy, but I find it hard to give him the third. And I really wouldn't argue with anyone claiming he scored the first 10-8 for Nate.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

Cerrone's performance was absolutely pathetic. I can't believe that he fought so badly... no boxing skills whatsoever. I thought he was a pretty safe bet, but it turned out to be far worse than I expected.


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## mattandbenny (Aug 2, 2007)

I think Cerrone just had an off day. Diaz didn't give him a chance to get into his rythem, and Cerrone just wasn't at the races. 

Everybody has bad days.


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## samhain (Jan 8, 2007)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> Cerrone just came in and fought a very dumb fight. He has all the tools to beat Diaz but he didn't use them properly. If he was smart he would have kept his distance and thrown leg kicks at Diaz's long and thin legs.
> He swept Diaz MANY times, but for some stupid reason NEVER once followed him to the mat. He could have easily followed Diaz to the mat and at least worked some GnP or top control. Yes Diaz had good BJJ but so does Cerrone and it's not like he was doing well on his feet anyway.
> Defensively, Cerrone utilized NO head movement at all from the onset of the fight and at some points looked like a damn statue.


This. 

Nate's timing was spot on from the start and he dictated the fight. Cerrone knocked him on his ass a few times and instead of taking a chance and going to the mat he let Nate get back up so Nate could continue to pepper him with shots.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> I can see the second for Cowboy, but I find it hard to give him the third. And I really wouldn't argue with anyone claiming he scored the first 10-8 for Nate.


I don't score 10-8 rounds unless I believe the opponent was hurt so badly it could have been called. Don't see how the second is even in dispute Cowboy landed more and harder shots and scored a clean knockdown. The third was close but Cowboy landed like 6 knees and head kicks that were clearly the most significant strikes of the round.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

osmium said:


> I don't score 10-8 rounds unless I believe the opponent was hurt so badly it could have been called. Don't see how the second is even in dispute Cowboy landed more and harder shots and scored a clean knockdown. The third was close but Cowboy landed like 6 knees and head kicks that were clearly the most significant strikes of the round.


You must have been real drunk when you watched the fight.

Nate clearly won. Look at Cerrone's face. Look at how many punches Nate landed compared to Cerrone. He outstruck him in every round.

You sir, are delusional.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> You must have been real drunk when you watched the fight.
> 
> Nate clearly won. Look at Cerrone's face. Look at how many punches Nate landed compared to Cerrone. He outstruck him in every round.
> 
> You sir, are delusional.


Oh he outstruck him from his ass in the second I didn't realize that I must have been drunk.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

I think Cerrone just had one of those days he would sooner just love to forget about, I think he left his brain behind when he picked up his hat and things just turned to shit very quickly for him and by the time he realised what was going on he was 2 rounds behind with 10 seconds left on the clock and thinking to himself, shit man what the fcuk just happened.

Yea I would not read to much into this performance, sure its a set back but is recoverable and if there is anything about him he should be able to look back on that fight and learn something about not letting your opponent get under your skin and just doing his job professionally when he is in the cage because if not then, cos if not even over rated mugs like Nate Diaz will make you look like a chum.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

He put too much pressure on himself. But in the end Nate is the better fighter anyway.

Everyone said Cerrone was getting in Nate's head. Never understood the thought, since Diaz brother don't really give 2 shits about what their opponents do. And they both ALWAYS fight on emotion.

So Cerrone in the end got into his own head. Diaz got to him too. Cerrone can't play the tough game with Diaz. You could see it how he ran across the cage on the opening bell. He flipped Nate when ref asked if they wanted to touch gloves. 

He got himself totally out of his element and right into Nate's.

He should of went into wrestling mode like a true Greg Jackson fighter. That was his only chance.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

osmium said:


> Oh he outstruck him from his ass in the second I didn't realize that I must have been drunk.


So you are counting trip takedowns where Cerrone did nothing with them....more than one guys rocking the other in the face countless times?

That is some weird judging.

Cerrone didn't hurt Nate once really. Nate peppered Carrone with shots. Most likely out landed him by more than 100 strikes.

Wasn't close at all. Didn't even recognize Cerrone during the post fight presser. His face looked like an old baseball glove. 

He got smacked up.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

have only see the fight once, am about to go round my mates to watch it again, but from what I recall it was 25-30 to Diaz (but dont hold me to that cos I maybe getting confused with how I scored the Nam fight.

but I think if I remember correctly and am not totally been confused with the Nam fight, I score both rounds 1 and 3 as 10-8

Cerrone got smashed its that simple, very best Cerrone could have hoped for out of that piss poor performance was losing 30-27 been serious was the worse fight of his career so bad in fact that I bet he can if not right now will one day see the funny side to it cos it is quite funny really, just down to plain stupidity that took him right into the cheep mindset trap of Diaz, if I was him I would watch that fight every time I was to step into the octagon again to remind me not to be such a tool, good news for him is should be easy now to never act like that in a fight again, it was just stupid really but he acted like he was fighting on a school playground not like he was part of a professional sports combat even against another trained fighter who will rip you up if your going to fight like sh1t.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

I don't think coboy was on his game. I think he was too angry and wasn't thinking strait. You could tell great Jackson was upset with him. If he was smart he would have jumped on Nate after sweeping him and got the points to win round 2 and maybe round 3 as well. Also his stand up was horrible I mean he had 0 head movement in that fight and was basically a punching bag for Nate.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

americanfighter said:


> I don't think coboy was on his game. I think he was too angry and wasn't thinking strait. You could tell great Jackson was upset with him. If he was smart he would have jumped on Nate after sweeping him and got the points to win round 2 and maybe round 3 as well. Also his stand up was horrible I mean he had 0 head movement in that fight and was basically a punching bag for Nate.


I still think Nate is the better fighter even if Cerrone was a little more on. Part in why he looked so off is the fact Nate doesn't let you breath. He doesn't give you that much space for kicks. You basically have to throw a kick while you are getting peppered with multiple accurate strikes to the face.

Cerrone just should have never tried to play that tough guy game. That is Diaz's game. They own that game. People thinking that crap was working to get in Nate's head were just looking for an angle for Cerrone. Nate and Nick don't get flustered. The more pissed they are the better they do anyway.


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## Ryan1522 (Oct 31, 2006)

KillerShark1985 said:


> I think Cerrone just had one of those days he would sooner just love to forget about, I think he left his brain behind when he picked up his hat and things just turned to shit very quickly for him and by the time he realised what was going on he was 2 rounds behind with 10 seconds left on the clock and thinking to himself, shit man what the fcuk just happened.
> 
> Yea I would not read to much into this performance, sure its a set back but is recoverable and if there is anything about him he should be able to look back on that fight and learn something about not letting your opponent get under your skin and just doing his job professionally when he is in the cage because if not then, cos if not even over rated mugs like Nate Diaz will make you look like a chum.


Exactly what happened. Could not have written it any better myself.


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## Cerroney! (Dec 4, 2011)

I'm a huge Cowboy fan so I simply plan to analyze the most objectively as I can (because I've got a couple, at least, of drinks in my belly when I watched the fight).

I think Diaz put a clinic con Cowboy and the stand-up was just great. It proves that the Gomi fight wasn't a fluke and he can solidify his spot in the division. A couple more fights and I say that the title shot is gonna come.

Oustanding performance by Diaz.

Cerrone, actually, was the complete opposite. Even though he landed some nasty leg kicks, he didn't followed up and that's because the emotion, the trash talking and the fired up he was took the best out of him. He wanted a nasty war with Diaz and he had it but at what cost? Cerrone wasn't near the Diaz boxing today and maybe every other night they fight.

There are some people who trash talk of the other fighter and in the octagon just lay n' pray to win easily, but Cowboy did the complete opposite. And that makes me a fan. I'm just a guy who enjoys watching mixed martial arts. I'm no cornerman. I don't always care about the result. What I like is that my man came in to fight and that Cowboy did. Diaz outclassed him? For sure but he had the willingness to gave the fans the fight they wanted to see.

WAR, COWBOY.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

While I don't like the Diaz Bros. for their personality, they are great fighters.

Nate came in 110% and also, got in Cowboys head ala Nick chirping.

Cowboy bought into it and didn't follow his gameplan. His kicks were enough to chop trees, he could have won a hard fought decision had he not de-railed. You could hear the urgency in Greg Jackson's voice right before round 3.

I think this loss was good for Cerrone to rebound and come back stronger. Diaz fought amazingly well but I do not see him as championship material. He's identical to Nick in dropping his guard, looping punches and abysmal wrestling. If anyone learned anything from last nights card is a granite chin will only take you so far (Fitch) and anyone can get knocked out.


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## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

I don't quite understand why Donald didn't try and do a little bit of GnP from his many knockdowns from kicks. His head movement was non-existent which might be ok against a guy with no striking but Diaz is notorious for putting his hands on a guy regardless the power behind the shots. I don't know what was up with him last night but he didn't seem to be himself. Don't get me wrong Diaz looked sharp last night but Cerrone did himself no favors by just standing there and taking it.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

It was a bad fight for Cerrone and a good one for Diaz, regardless both fighters are clearly still in the top ten.

1. Frankie Edgar

2. Gray Maynard

3. Benson Henderson

4. Clay Guida

5. Nate Diaz

6. Jim Miller

7. Kenny Florian

8. Donald Cerrone

9. Anthony Pettis

10. Joe Lauzon

11. Melvin Guillard

12. Edson Barboza

13. Gleison Tibau

14. Dennis Siver

15. Sam Stout

Close in rankings 16-25 (Bocek, Dos Anjos, Etim, Ferguson, Hallman, Sass, Sherk, Stephens, Volkmann, Wiman)


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

You would have to put Pettis ahead of Cerrone. Unless Cerrone learned from his stupidity last night and would actually use his grappling ability in that fight...


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

420atalon said:


> You would have to put Pettis ahead of Cerrone. Unless Cerrone learned from his stupidity last night and would actually use his grappling ability in that fight...


If Pettis beats Lauzon he's going to skyrocket up the rankings again. Diaz is #5 right now basically by default, either Pettis or Jim Miller could be at five but that is dependent on how they perform against their highly respectable opponent.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

The LW division is just full of mediocre fighters all of which can beat each other up on any given night. Frankie and Maynard are ahead of the pack, but not by much. It's just a weak division, contrary to popular "OMG deepest division!" propaganda.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

It's only a matter of time until every 155 lb ranking reads

1. Edgar
2. Maynard
3. Florian

And I'd love to see Aldo come up, Diego come back down, and Gilbert come over.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

I think people are making the mistake of comparing Diaz bros to fights they lost years ago. Cerrone has good grappling and is usually able to take a fighter down at least one time in the fight. 

He tried several times to clinch and put Diaz on the mat and fence and Diaz shrugged most attempts away like nothing.2nd round he landed some good leg kicks, but the swarming attack makes it hard to have enough space to throw kicks with good force.

Both Diaz bros have improved on that area of weakness, and though it is still weaker than their BJJ and Boxing it at least isn't terrible.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Everyone the Diaz brothers fight looks slow and sloppy because they get an instant contact high just from fighting them. It's their secret weapon.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

MikeHawk said:


> Everyone the Diaz brothers fight looks slow and sloppy because they get an instant contact high just from fighting them. It's their secret weapon.


That's some goos sh1t :smoke01:.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> The LW division is just full of mediocre fighters all of which can beat each other up on any given night. Frankie and Maynard are ahead of the pack, but not by much. It's just a weak division, contrary to popular "OMG deepest division!" propaganda.


A couple people have said this but I don't get it at all. LW is deep imo and it is why you see decent fighters trying to fight at FW and WW because of it(Penn, Diaz, Florian). 

My question to you is which divisions are deeper? 

Imo the only one that you can argue is WW. FW, BW, MW and HW are shallow and LHW although decent isn't as deep as either the LW or WW divisions.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

420atalon said:


> A couple people have said this but I don't get it at all. LW is deep imo and it is why you see decent fighters trying to fight at FW and WW because of it(Penn, Diaz, Florian).
> 
> My question to you is which divisions are deeper?
> 
> Imo the only one that you can argue is WW. FW, BW, MW and HW are shallow and LHW although decent isn't as deep as either the LW or WW divisions.


Penn got ran out by Edgar and Florian got ran out by Maynard, same with Diaz to an extent. No one really denies that Edgar and Maynard are that good.

But when you see guys like Guida, Guillard, Lauzon, and Diaz surge up the rankings when just a year ago no one were even considering them as contenders and you look at the fact that a guy like Guida got beat down by Florian and Diego Sanchez who both left is now all of a sudden a top five guy when he was more of a gatekeeper just a year ago it just goes to show that a guy like Guida is a contender now *in part* to guys leaving that he couldn't beat.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> The LW division is just full of mediocre fighters all of which can beat each other up on any given night. Frankie and Maynard are ahead of the pack, but not by much. It's just a weak division, contrary to popular "OMG deepest division!" propaganda.


It certainly isn't the deepest division...that's the WW division but it is very deep and very strong. 

Propaganda is the notion that 205 is an amazing division.

MW is also pretty shallow, but that's just in the UFC, their are dozens of top MW's in the world that the UFC has passed on.



TheLyotoLegion said:


> Penn got ran out by Edgar and Florian got ran out by Maynard, same with Diaz to an extent. No one really denies that Edgar and Maynard are that good.
> 
> But when you see guys like Guida, Guillard, Lauzon, and Diaz surge up the rankings when just a year ago no one were even considering them as contenders and you look at the fact that a guy like Guida got beat down by Florian and Diego Sanchez who both left is now all of a sudden a top five guy when he was more of a gatekeeper just a year ago it just goes to show that a guy like Guida is a contender now *in part* to guys leaving that he couldn't beat.


1.) I'm pretty sure Guida's been a perennial top ten guy since 2006 when he was the SF champion. He lost his title to Melendez, but he worked his way up to a title eliminator with Sanchez in 2009. He's had a few bad years but he's been solid.

2.) They may not be well received but they are up there in UFC wins record Diaz (10), Guillard (10), Guida (9), Lauzon (8).

3.) The signs of a quality division is not just in the top ten...though I would argue Maynard, Edgar, Florian, Henderson, Guida, and maybe a returning Sherk speaks to the divisions consistency. 

4.) Also look at prospects, the division is filled with guys who are either off to amazing starts (Ferguson, Sass, Barboza) but also top vets that are getting things together (Hallman, Stout, Tibau), this speaks to a division fluidity.


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## zarny (Mar 4, 2007)

Time doesn't stand still. Nate has certainly improved since losing to Joe. 

And athletes don't perform to the same level every day and that includes fighters.

Cerrone's game plan proved to be wrong. I don't know if it was pre-fight emotions, the magnitude of the event or a miscalculation but he looked stiff and out of sorts. It was like he couldn't figure out he was losing the slug fest.

Nate on the other hand looked very relaxed and fluid. It was certainly his most impressive boxing performance to date.


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## Cerroney! (Dec 4, 2011)

demoman993 said:


> I don't quite understand why Donald didn't try and do a little bit of GnP from his many knockdowns from kicks. His head movement was non-existent which might be ok against a guy with no striking but Diaz is notorious for putting his hands on a guy regardless the power behind the shots. I don't know what was up with him last night but he didn't seem to be himself. Don't get me wrong Diaz looked sharp last night but Cerrone did himself no favors by just standing there and taking it.


He said it in the press-conference: due to the trash talking, he was going to war with Diaz. A lot of reporters ask the same question you have but Cowboy simply responds as he wanna make this a stand-up war and he got it... Sadly for him, Diaz was better in the feet and took over the decision.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

osmium said:


> Don't know what fight you guys were watching but cowboy won the second and third. As far as looking like crap in the first Cowboy does that every couple of fights it is a mental thing with him and his striking defense has always been bad.


MMA judging <> Osmium's judging.

Nate slapped Cerrone all over the cage like a little Japanese school girl.


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## Nikkolai (Jan 7, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> MMA judging <> Osmium's judging.
> 
> Nate slapped Cerrone all over the cage like a little japanese school girl.


I'm with you. Not sure how leg trips with no follow up wins a round when his face gets repeatedly hit over and over. I think the only reason Nate was putting his hands down was because he was tired of punching Cerrone in the face. raise01:


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Nikkolai said:


> I'm with you. Not sure how leg trips with no follow up wins a round when his face gets repeatedly hit over and over.* I think the only reason Nate was putting his hands down was because he was tired of punching Cerrone in the face. raise01:*


Cerrone beat Nate's hands up with his head. It was a good strategic move from the cowboy and he executed it perfectly, continuously getting punched in the head like that. It's just a shame that it isn't part of the judging criteria for winning fights.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> The LW division is just full of mediocre fighters all of which can beat each other up on any given night. Frankie and Maynard are ahead of the pack, but not by much. It's just a weak division, contrary to popular "OMG deepest division!" propaganda.


GTFO.


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## KLD412 (Jan 1, 2012)

Hi all, I'm new  I've been reading different forums for quite a while and finally decided to register here.. anyway... I was extremely bummed out about Cerrone's performance last night. I'll admit I'm a newer fan to the UFC, watching here and there for the past 3 years or so, over the past year and a half I've really gotten addicted. I'm not too familiar with the Diaz brothers, but Cerrone didn't show one ounce of aggression. All those leg sweeps, and not one attempt to follow them up with anything?! I know Nate Diaz has very good submission skills, but one would think in the last round, he would realize that he's going to lose anyway and it's "do or die" time...? I don't get it :confused03:


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

KLD412 said:


> Hi all, I'm new  I've been reading different forums for quite a while and finally decided to register here.. anyway... I was extremely bummed out about Cerrone's performance last night. I'll admit I'm a newer fan to the UFC, watching here and there for the past 3 years or so, over the past year and a half I've really gotten addicted. I'm not too familiar with the Diaz brothers, but Cerrone didn't show one ounce of aggression. All those leg sweeps, and not one attempt to follow them up with anything?! I know Nate Diaz has very good submission skills, but one would think in the last round, he would realize that he's going to lose anyway and it's "do or die" time...? I don't get it :confused03:


Nate was just on that night. Usually it takes him a good round to find his range but he was hitting Cerrone with every shot he threw from the start of the round. Cerrone didn't help himself out by charging him either. Looked like he was a little bit too emotional and it got the best of him.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

John8204 said:


> It certainly isn't the deepest division...that's the WW division but it is very deep and very strong.
> 
> Propaganda is the notion that 205 is an amazing division.
> 
> MW is also pretty shallow, but that's just in the UFC, their are dozens of top MW's in the world that the UFC has passed on.


Well LHW is the 2nd weakest division IMO, but it's got Bones, Davis and Gustaffson who are all elite level fighters, which you don't have a single instance of in the LW div. In addition the vets like Rampage and Machida all have unique styles and decently balanced skills. 

MW is not as bad as it used to be. People just keep repeating statements from years ago when they say the HW or MW divisions suck ... divisions change people, yes these two divisions sucked at one point but they are stacked now. MW has an Olympic alternate wrestler and an NCAA champ (Sonnen and Munoz), quite possibly the best BJJ fighter alive (Maia), THE best striker in all of MMA (Anderson), some very competitive and decorated strikers in Vitor and Bisping with very good TDD etc. It's not a weak div anymore, not as deep as WW but not weak either.

HW has an NCAA champ and another NCAA All American, an amazing boxer, A K1 GP winner, the hardest puncher in MMA, 2 ADCC level black belts one of whom has won the ADCC open weight on many occassions (yes Werdum is back in the UFC now) and most of all they are all huge, powerful and still very athletic men, a very rare combination.

LW just seems to have a bunch of cookie cutter fighters. Seriously, this is a div that has no NCAA level wrestlers besides Maynard or Edgar and sloppy high school wrestlers like Guida are considered "top" wrestlers. And there isn't a single ADCC level BJJ competitor in there either now that BJ is gone.

All of them are "good" boxers but with zero boxing, kickboxing, karate etc. creds and basically all do the same thing. Come out to the center and start slugging, with various degrees of home innovated movement and technique. Name one fighter in LW with any sort of creds, other than Edgar or Maynard? Show me one current LW fighter that has the sheer beauty of technique shown by guys like Anderson, Bones or GSP?





420atalon said:


> A couple people have said this but I don't get it at all. LW is deep imo and it is why you see decent fighters trying to fight at FW and WW because of it(Penn, Diaz, Florian).
> 
> My question to you is which divisions are deeper?
> 
> Imo the only one that you can argue is WW. FW, BW, MW and HW are shallow and LHW although decent isn't as deep as either the LW or WW divisions.


WW, MW, HW are all much deeper, see above. Even LHW isn't as bad.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> LW just seems to have a bunch of cookie cutter fighters. Seriously, *this is a div that has no NCAA level wrestlers *besides Maynard or Edgar and sloppy high school wrestlers like Guida are considered "top" wrestlers. And there isn't a single ADCC level BJJ competitor in there either now that BJ is gone.
> 
> All of them are "good" boxers but with zero boxing, kickboxing, karate etc. creds and basically all do the same thing. Come out to the center and start slugging, with various degrees of home innovated movement and technique. *Name one fighter in LW with any sort of creds*, other than Edgar or Maynard? Show me one current LW fighter that has the sheer beauty of technique shown by guys like Anderson, Bones or GSP?


Shane Roller and Jacob Volkmann were both more acclaimed wrestlers and higher ranked NCAA wrestlers than Gray Maynard.

As for beauty in technique 

*Tony Ferguson (13-2)* has been really impressive in multiple areas, he managed a rolling omaplata against Yves Edwards, an upkick KO against Justin Edwards, and he broke Aaron Rileys jaw.

*Paul Sass (12-0)* is 23 years old (12-0) and is a submission machine.

*Edson Barboza (9-0) * was a Muay Thai KO'ing machine he has quite a few Brazilian titles 
http://thegarv.com/Featured-Up-and-Comer-Edson-Barboza.html

You can also count on one hand the amount of guys in the division with double digit losses, with most fighters either in their prime fighting years (28-32) or younger than that. On the other hand the LHW division is old only 1/3rd of the division is under 30, also look outside the UFC, Bellator, Strikeforce, and Bamma all have terrible LHW's most of which are jacked up MW's.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> WW, MW, HW are all much deeper, see above. Even LHW isn't as bad.


You must be on crack...

HW??? There are 3 good HW fighters... JDS, Overeem and Velasquez. A couple mediocre guys in Mir and Carwin. Then next to nothing... All the up and coming fighters have looked like they will never become anything special and guys like Nelson are still top 10 fighters in the division... HW is way better then it used to be but is still extremely weak compared to WW or LW. 

It seems to me like you are only considering the top 5 fighters in each division when you speak of "depth"... You are asking for us to provide a fighter in LW that compares to GSP or Silva, wtf does that have to do with anything??? When you look at the WW or MW division you should be ignoring Silva and GSP because they are so dominant, they are anomalies(either that or the rest of their divisions are just really weak in comparison...). Depth is how skilled the top 10-20 guys are, not how talented the very best in the division are...


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

I guess you could almost make a case for Edgar being ahead of the pack, but I wouldn't say Maynard is that far ahead. He only beat Diaz by split decision in a fight that a lot of people argued over. They both have improved a lot since then as well.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

420atalon said:


> You must be on crack...
> 
> *HW??? There are 3 good HW fighters... JDS, Overeem and Velasquez. A couple mediocre guys in Mir and Carwin. * Then next to nothing... All the up and coming fighters have looked like they will never become anything special and guys like Nelson are still top 10 fighters in the division... HW is way better then it used to be but is still extremely weak compared to WW or LW.
> 
> It seems to me like you are only considering the top 5 fighters in each division when you speak of "depth"... You are asking for us to provide a fighter in LW that compares to GSP or Silva, wtf does that have to do with anything??? When you look at the WW or MW division you should be ignoring Silva and GSP because they are so dominant, they are anomalies(either that or the rest of their divisions are just really weak in comparison...). Depth is how skilled the top 10-20 guys are, not how talented the very best in the division are...


Lightweight really isn't that much better.

You really think people are gonna believe that Clay Guida and Melvin Guillard went from mid-tier fighters to top ten fighters just like that? No, they may have improved a small bit, but they also benefited from three certain people leaving.

I would bet anything that if Penn, Florian, and Sanchez still fought at 155 and never left the top five would have been the same like it was in 2009/2010, some combination of Edgar/Maynard/Penn/Florian/Sanchez.


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## MLD (Oct 15, 2006)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> Cerrone just came in and fought a very dumb fight. He has all the tools to beat Diaz but he didn't use them properly. If he was smart he would have kept his distance and thrown leg kicks at Diaz's long and thin legs.
> He swept Diaz MANY times, but for some stupid reason NEVER once followed him to the mat. He could have easily followed Diaz to the mat and at least worked some GnP or top control. Yes Diaz had good BJJ but so does Cerrone and it's not like he was doing well on his feet anyway.
> Defensively, Cerrone utilized NO head movement at all from the onset of the fight and at some points looked like a damn statue.
> 
> I have to say I'm very disappointed in Cerrone tonight. I think personally he got too emotional and let Diaz get in his head and prevent him from fighting a smart fight. Props to Diaz, though. He looked fantastic tonight and he should be moving on into title contention soon.


This is exactly what I was thinking. Well put.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

John8204 said:


> Shane Roller and Jacob Volkmann were both more acclaimed wrestlers and higher ranked NCAA wrestlers than Gray Maynard.
> 
> As for beauty in technique
> 
> ...


The beauty in technique guys are all new additions to the UFC though, they are more the future of the LW division than it's present. When they rise to the top, yes the division may be considered solid, but right now the upper echelon of the div is weak. 

Besides, prospects always look good beating entry level UFC guys, right until they get KOd down the ladder as soon as they face a vet. The only one of those guys that really looks like a truly elite guy IMO is Barboza. Paul Sass is just a one dimensional BJJ brown belt subbing cans with crap BJJ. Ferguson is good, but again nothing about his achievements or technique is something that stands out. The occasional unorthodox sub or KO does not necessarily make elite, utter beautiful domination of every guy you face is more of an indicator. 

As far as not having too many guys with double digit losses, that's not really a great achievement. If you have double digit losses and your name isn't Randy Couture, you shouldn't even be in the UFC. If anything most other divs have no guys or maybe 1 guy with double digit losses, whereas in LW guys like Guida are considered contenders.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I think Cerrone showed tonight that he just has an incredibly weak mental game, and I don't ever think he will be a champion. Interestingly enough, he reminds me of Nate Marquardt. A solid fighter with well-rounded skills, but mediocre defensive wrestling and a terrible mental game. Diaz showed us Friday night that he's a top 8-12 Lightweight and Cerrone fell right into his trap.

I think Cerrone's career will be similar to how Marquardt's was in the UFC. He'll beat any guy outside of the top ten, and maybe one or two inside, but he will always lose to elite fighters like Frankie, Gray, and Bendo.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Lightweight really isn't that much better.
> 
> You really think people are gonna believe that Clay Guida and Melvin Guillard went from mid-tier fighters to top ten fighters just like that? No, they may have improved a small bit, but they also benefited from three certain people leaving.
> 
> I would bet anything that if Penn, Florian, and Sanchez still fought at 155 and never left the top five would have been the same like it was in 2009/2010, some combination of Edgar/Maynard/Penn/Florian/Sanchez.


And that would be a bad thing? Florian, Sanchez, Penn, Henderson etc are better skilled then 90% of fighters in the UFC... That is why Florian nearly beat Aldo for the FW title... Why Penn is still nearly a top 5 WW fighter(probably could be if he was motivated)... Why Sanchez is close to a top 10 WW fighter...

If you are going to argue that the LW division has no depth you have to argue that the UFC in general lacks depth... Which is not true. Its like Boxing and Wrestling etc where there will always be the odd guys that stand out and make the rest look like fools. Guys like Silva, GSP etc that people love to watch. The rest of the guys are just your average good fighter though and people lose interest in them because they are nothing seemingly special. 

Is Jim Miller etc really a bad fighter because he isn't really a top 5 fighter? No he is still a very good well rounded fighter that is one of the best in the world... He just lacks the tools to beat a couple superior fighters in his division. The LW division is full of guys like this, that doesn't make it weak it makes it strong... I can honestly name around 30 fighters in the UFC LW division that I don't mind watching fight because I know their fights will be entertaining and that for the most part I don't have to worry about them putting on a bad showing. 

MW, LHW and HW are still in large part still stuck in the past. Guys from Pride etc who are just fighting for the money now are still top of the food chain and they put on half garbage fights every once in a while because of it. Guys like Forrest that don't show up for a fight, Shogun that gasses every fight, Leben who quits when it gets tough, W. Silva who doesn't have a chin or his ability anymore... Eventually these guys will be replaced but honestly there are so few good fighters coming up in those divisions it is going to take a while. At LW we are already right in the middle of this transformation. Just a couple years ago it was thought that nobody would beat Penn... He was the GSP etc of LW. Then he got smoked twice by Edgar who is now fighting tough fights against new guys to the division... Previous top challengers like Miller, Guillard etc are looking like closer to gatekeepers now for a bunch of exciting up and coming fighters like Etim, Ferguson, Nijem, Sass, Barboza, Pettis and others that are all getting better and working their way up the ranks. 

People that don't realize this and that actually think the LW division is the weakest are in for a surprise because every division is going to go the same way the LW division is... Fights are going to get closer, there aren't going to be nearly as many KO's and Subs because fighters are getting talented and skilled enough to avoid and defend themselves. 

That is the only reason I can see why anyone would consider the HW or MW divisions are deeper then the LW division... I honestly don't get it because I don't like watching those old bar fight style fights anymore... I don't like watching fighters gas and I can't stand watching fighters just throw haymakers etc... Its not entertaining to me yet when I watch fights in camp that is what the majority of the fans like, they boo the "boring" lighter weight fighters but that is only because they don't understand it...

Honestly the more I think about it MMA advancing as a sport is going to do probably more harm to it then good. I say this because there are way too many fans that don't care that fighters are skilled and the divisions are just tougher. They just want to see knockouts and submissions but those are going to become less and less likely as fighters get better. There will be the odd person that comes around like Silva etc that might knock people out left and right but for the most part I am guessing that MMA is going to take the same route boxing took... Pretty soon the majority of people will only really care about watching the major title fights or the odd fighter that is running through opponents like Jones does and the rest of the fighters will become irrelvant in the eyes of most fans. We are already seeing this today imo and its only going to get worse, the UFC fad is already starting to die and it is because people are only looking for cheap entertainment instead of trying to understand the sport.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> The beauty in technique guys are all new additions to the UFC though, they are more the future of the LW division than it's present. When they rise to the top, yes the division may be considered solid, but right now the upper echelon of the div is weak.


As I figured. 

Please don't refer to the LW division as not being deep. Depth has to do with skill level of all fighters in the division and the incremental differences from fighters in the top 5 to the top 10 to the top 20 etc.

What you are talking about is excitement and high level fighters that are able to KO others etc. Has nothing to do with depth and as other divisions get more depth the ability for fighters to be so dominant will diminish...


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

420atalon said:


> And that would be a bad thing? Florian, Sanchez, Penn, Henderson etc are better skilled then 90% of fighters in the UFC... That is why Florian nearly beat Aldo for the FW title... Why Penn is still nearly a top 5 WW fighter(probably could be if he was motivated)... Why Sanchez is close to a top 10 WW fighter...
> 
> If you are going to argue that the LW division has no depth you have to argue that the UFC in general lacks depth... Which is not true. Its like Boxing and Wrestling etc where there will always be the odd guys that stand out and make the rest look like fools. Guys like Silva, GSP etc that people love to watch. The rest of the guys are just your average good fighter though and people lose interest in them because they are nothing seemingly special.
> 
> ...


My argument on why I think the division is bad isn't based on their technique.

I just don't think anyone fighting in the Lightweight division is good enough to beat Edgar or Maynard, I'm simply not sold on any of them as elite fighters, are they good fighters? Absolutely but do I see any of them beating the top two guys? No. I truly believe Edgar and Maynard are a class above all of them.

I believe Bendo's gonna have some serious issues with Edgar's speed, especially if he's adding weight when he already has trouble making 155 as it is, Guillard still has the same problem he's always had, careless, leaves his hands down, has bad submission defense and his chin seems suspect, I know he rushed into Lauzon's punch but he also got dropped from with a jab by Joe Stevenson, Guida beat a guy in Gomi who just seems lifeless when he fights, broke dos Anjos' jaw and subbed a guy who isn't even in the UFC anymore and in the process exposed Anthony Pettis' giant weakness which a guy like Maynard would take advantage of. Jim Miller was already handled by Maynard, Cerrone isn't Championship material mentally and Diaz' wrestling is still a question mark.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> My argument on why I think the division is bad isn't based on their technique.
> 
> I just don't think anyone fighting in the Lightweight division is good enough to beat Edgar or Maynard, I'm simply not sold on any of them as elite fighters, are they good fighters? Absolutely but do I see any of them beating the top two guys? No. I truly believe Edgar and Maynard are a class above all of them.
> 
> I believe Bendo's gonna have some serious issues with Edgar's speed, especially if he's adding weight when he already has trouble making 155 as it is, Guillard still has the same problem he's always had, careless, leaves his hands down, has bad submission defense and his chin seems suspect, I know he rushed into Lauzon's punch but he also got dropped from with a jab by Joe Stevenson, Guida beat a guy in Gomi who just seems lifeless when he fights, broke dos Anjos' jaw and subbed a guy who isn't even in the UFC anymore and in the process exposed Anthony Pettis' giant weakness which a guy like Maynard would take advantage of. Jim Miller was already handled by Maynard, Cerrone isn't Championship material mentally and Diaz' wrestling is still a question mark.


The talent gap between Edgar/Maynard and the rest of the division is much closer then the talent gap between Silva/Sonnen at MW, Jones at LHW and Dos Santos/Overeem at HW. Even GSP has more of gap then Edgar/Maynard do. 

Do you forget Diaz almost beat Maynard? How do you know a guy like Diaz couldn't give Edgar trouble with his decent boxing and longer reach? I don't know that Edgar is big enough to just out wrestle Diaz like everyone else has done to beat him. There are other matchups as well that could be problematic, Guillard has a better chance against Edgar then he did against Lauzon imo... Styles make fights and the LW and WW divisions are full of them. The rest, not so much imo.

And I honestly still don't understand how or why you guys are arguing that because you don't think anyone could beat Edgar etc that it makes the LW division weak. Edgar twice beat a fighter who is still somewhat competitive in the next weight up... He would likely beat Sanchez who is also competitive at WW...

That is like if I were to say that the MW division is weak because no one will ever beat Silva. Hell I don't even know that anyone at LHW Jones included would beat Silva...

Its the fact that a guy in the top 10-20 at LW(guys like Guillard, Dunham, Sherk, Siver etc) could even be somewhat competitive against Edgar that makes the LW division deep. I would like you to find me a top 10+ guy in any division other then WW that could do that. Like at MW how do you think a guy like Miller, Belcher, Simpson etc would do against Silva? Bader, Bonnar, Vera vs Jones? Hunt, Rothwell etc against Dos Santos? Every division not named LW or WW would be absolute beatdowns between the top fighters and these mid range guys and that is because they are weak divisions with no depth...

Edit: Honestly when I read your post its like you think the LW division is bad because it is competitive which doesn't make sense to me. Yes fighters are going to have weaknesses, guys like Guillard are going to get submitted.


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> Nate Diaz is also 24 right now, and was 21 when he lost to Joe Stevenson. He isn't even in his prime yet, and the last two fights, he's made huge progress. Did you not watch Nate vs Gomi? that was just another top performance by Diaz, and shows his ever evolving game.
> 
> If he keeps progressing like this, he will be a true contender in the future.


wow had no idea how young nate really was


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## 2kni3 (Nov 21, 2009)

ok guys after going back and watching the fight again .. I don`t necessary believe the fight was rigged .. as I believe the people that run the UFC are top notch and would not do things like that .. however I do believe that like donald cerrone has said in his pre fight interviews .. he does not wanna be the champion and does not like that pressure or what not on him .. so I think maybe he lost the fight on purpose himself .. because I`ve seen plenty of Donald Cerrone`s fight .. and I can`t believe that was actually him fighting Nate Diaz that night .. maybe I am over looking it .. but that`s how I feel about it lol


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

2kni3 said:


> ok guys after going back and watching the fight again .. I don`t necessary believe the fight was rigged .. as I believe the people that run the UFC are top notch and would not do things like that .. however I do believe that like donald cerrone has said in his pre fight interviews .. he does not wanna be the champion and does not like that pressure or what not on him .. so I think maybe he lost the fight on purpose himself .. because I`ve seen plenty of Donald Cerrone`s fight .. and I can`t believe that was actually him fighting Nate Diaz that night .. maybe I am over looking it .. but that`s how I feel about it lol


Lol, I don't think he took 100+ punches to the face on purpose. His nerves might have got to him but there's now way he'd throw a fight.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> My argument on why I think the division is bad isn't based on their technique.
> 
> I just don't think anyone fighting in the Lightweight division is good enough to beat Edgar or Maynard, I'm simply not sold on any of them as elite fighters, are they good fighters? Absolutely but do I see any of them beating the top two guys? No. I truly believe Edgar and Maynard are a class above all of them.
> 
> I believe Bendo's gonna have some serious issues with Edgar's speed, especially if he's adding weight when he already has trouble making 155 as it is, Guillard still has the same problem he's always had, careless, leaves his hands down, has bad submission defense and his chin seems suspect, I know he rushed into Lauzon's punch but he also got dropped from with a jab by Joe Stevenson, Guida beat a guy in Gomi who just seems lifeless when he fights, broke dos Anjos' jaw and subbed a guy who isn't even in the UFC anymore and in the process exposed Anthony Pettis' giant weakness which a guy like Maynard would take advantage of. Jim Miller was already handled by Maynard, Cerrone isn't Championship material mentally and Diaz' wrestling is still a question mark.


I don't know why you keep mentioning Maynard when Diaz has already submitted him and arguably beat him in the second fight (he did beat him really). He's also knocked himself out.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> I don't know why you keep mentioning Maynard when Diaz has already submitted him and arguably beat him in the second fight (he did beat him really). He's also knocked himself out.


I think Nate beat him in the 2nd fight as well, and would beat him if they had a 3rd.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I couldn't ever decide who really won the second fight. I remember that I thought Maynard won round two and I thought it was a toss up in the first and third rounds. I'll have to re-watch it. My initial thought was that they would give it to Maynard, but I kind of lol'd when one of the judges had it 30-27 Maynard.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Ari said:


> I couldn't ever decide who really won the second fight. I remember that I thought Maynard won round two and I thought it was a toss up in the first and third rounds. I'll have to re-watch it. My initial thought was that they would give it to Maynard, but I kind of lol'd when one of the judges had it 30-27 Maynard.


Yea. The main point here is that Gray's win over Nate Diaz is seen as pretty controversial. It was a close fight and a lot of people have different opinions on who actually won. This backfires against Legion's point that only Gray Maynard is leagues and light years ahead of every other LW on the planet (other than Frankie, obviously).

He's lost to Nate Diaz once, had a controversial win over him the second time round and had a controversial win over Roger Huerta (The last time I watched that fight I think I thought Huerta won too, I need to watch it again though).

I just don't understand his obsession with thinking Frankie Edgar and Gray Maynard are the kingpins of the division and all of the other fighters are massively lagging behind them. It just isn't true at all.


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## watchufc (Dec 29, 2011)

It didnt help cerrone that diaz landed about 90% of his punches square on cerrone's jaw. I could have at least dodged a few more than he did.


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