# GSP Trainer: St-Pierre Could Make 155, Unlikely to Move Up to 185



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

> Rumors of a potential Georges St-Pierre vs. Anderson Silva UFC superfight have been circulating for what seems like years at this point, but are we all jumping the gun on GSP’s desire to move up to middleweight? According to his trainer, we might be.
> 
> According to Firas Zahabi, St-Pierre’s head trainer, the current UFC welterweight champion may not be as interested in moving up to 185 pounds as he would be in moving down to 155 pounds.
> 
> ...


/http://bleacherreport.com/articles/909288-gsp-trainer-st-pierre-could-make-155-would-prefer-that-to-moving-up-to-185


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Would need to lose some muscle mass but I could see him doing it. GSP is really strict on his diet to begin with and trains all the time, I'm sure he perfected the weight cutting for 170 already.


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## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

I think hes going to look real thin a la KenFlo at 145. Dont think he would actual do it though. GSP man cmon... fight Anderson Silva already.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

*GSP's head coach: "GSP could make 155"*



> Rumors of a potential Georges St-Pierre vs. Anderson Silva UFC superfight have been circulating for what seems like years at this point, but are we all jumping the gun on GSP’s desire to move up to middleweight? According to his trainer, we might be.
> 
> According to Firas Zahabi, St-Pierre’s head trainer, the current UFC welterweight champion may not be as interested in moving up to 185 pounds as he would be in moving down to 155 pounds.
> 
> ...


*Source: BleacherReport.com*

Where the hell did this come from? I don't believe that GSP is a small WW, he's quite big actually:


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

I really don't see the big appeal of the GSP/Silva fight. I never have, in my opinion, Silva takes George with relative ease.

The only argument I could have seen for this fight would have been roughly two years ago or so when it truly seemed like there was nothing else for those guys to do in their own divisions. However, some serious new contenders have surfaced now...

I of course want to see Sonnen get a second shot, I think Jason Miller is a more explosive version of Travis Lutter which could be interesting, Mark Munoz has some great skills, as well as Brian Stann, and I'll say it, I'm not even opposed to a Chris Leben rematch if he truly earns it.

Meanwhile, you have Condit, Diaz, Ellenberger, MacDonald, and yesh... even Penn 3, again IF he earns it.

I'm really tired of hearing about how these guys should jump around weight classes... let them fight where they are, if they are destroying everyone, that sounds like the competitions problem, not there own.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Anderson Silva isn't at 155, of course he could go down there. :hug:


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

Where in the hell would GSP lose that weight? The guy is ripped to shreds as it is. Would be interesting to say the least.


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## slapstick (Oct 15, 2010)

Chatting. Avoiding the Anderson fight.


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

I find that pretty hard to believe. There are bigger WW than GSP, but he is still a good sized WW. Even if he could make the cut to 155, I can't believe it wouldn't just rack the hell out of him to do it.

Everyone at 155 better hope he can't do it anyway. GSP already manhandles WW's, I can't even imagine how easily he could clean out 155, he would roll right through it if he felt like it.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

If your head coach wants you to move down in weight to get a challenge, you got problems. "Lets drop weightclasses to make it even easier for you to hold them down." Maybe GSP will tell his coach off like Silva did Sores, who knows.


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## EastonAssassin (Nov 5, 2009)

Sounds like they REALLY don't won't anything to do with Silva.


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## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

EastonAssassin said:


> Sounds like they REALLY don't won't anything to do with Silva.


When has GSP ever given the impression that he does? He's always deflected the question - he's not a MW and he's earned the right to refuse.

I think this is Zahabi's way of telling the fans to back off a little bit and let GSP decide where he wants to fight. I'm betting it would be just as easy for him to move up to 185 or down to 155, but why should he do either? He's fighting at his natural weight class, and there are fights left for both Silva and GSP at their weight classes. Also, as good as a Silva/GSP superfight would be, why is nobody talking about an Edgar/GSP Superfight.

GSP has Diaz and Condit, and a potential rematch with Fitch
Silva has Sonnen, and according to his manager, Bisping

Personally, I would like to see Silva have 3 more fights at MW. If he's still champion, he could do a catch-weight (177?) with GSP, and retire with his belt.

To let the fans decide that GSP is to move up is wrong. He isn't a huge WW, and Silva is much bigger. Neither one should have to risk their legacy by way of a loss outside of their weight class.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

This is the same piece of shit that told us GSP was 194lbs of lean muscle a week before the Shields fight.

He's clearing bullshitting, but the fucked up part is GSP probably could make 155 the same way a guy like Marquardt made 170. These assholes ******* cheat to make weight and everyone turns a blind eye. I am so sick of it, I can't wait until these guys get into their 40s and 50s and their organs fail and they die for being cheating scumbags and abusing drugs


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

Roflcopter said:


> This is the same piece of shit that told us GSP was 194lbs of lean muscle a week before the Shields fight.
> 
> He's clearing bullshitting, but the fucked up part is GSP probably could make 155 the same way a guy like Marquardt made 170. These assholes ******* cheat to make weight and everyone turns a blind eye. I am so sick of it, I can't wait until these guys get into their 40s and 50s and their organs fail and they die for being cheating scumbags and abusing drugs


Why don't you tell us how you really feel? :thumb02:


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## EastonAssassin (Nov 5, 2009)

RedRocket44 said:


> When has GSP ever given the impression that he does? He's always deflected the question - he's not a MW and he's earned the right to refuse.
> 
> I think this is Zahabi's way of telling the fans to back off a little bit and let GSP decide where he wants to fight. I'm betting it would be just as easy for him to move up to 185 or down to 155, but why should he do either? He's fighting at his natural weight class, and there are fights left for both Silva and GSP at their weight classes.
> 
> ...



So in the words...wait for Silva to get older, slow down and then get a cheap and undeserved win over an aging HOFer. Kinda like what Mayweather did with Mosley. If GSP waits another 2 or 3 years to take this fight, it's a definite duck and he loses all credibility.


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## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

Roflcopter said:


> This is the same piece of shit that told us GSP was 194lbs of lean muscle a week before the Shields fight.
> 
> He's clearing bullshitting, but the fucked up part is GSP probably could make 155 the same way a guy like Marquardt made 170. These assholes ******* cheat to make weight and everyone turns a blind eye. I am so sick of it, I can't wait until these guys get into their 40s and 50s and their organs fail and they die for being cheating scumbags and abusing drugs


How is he bullshitting, if by your own words GSP could make 155?

I do agree that it is likely terrible for your body to be cutting that kind of weight all the time though.

I wouldn't go as far as calling weight cutting cheating, but I admit I'm not a huge fan of it. Cutting too much definitely hurts performance, so it somewhat evens itself out in my eyes.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

I must be such a minority. I don't give a flying f**k to see GSP change divisions. He's not chasing anything; he's holding the prize. So tired of Internet badasses wanting GSP to change weight classes...


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Why do we have to be internet badasses wanting GSP to go up in weight? Seems like a cop out to real reasoning. He's proven he's the best WW, why not go prove you're the best MW?


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/96167-gsp-trainer-st-pierre-could-make-155-unlikely-move-up-185-a.html


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

If he drops about 10 pounds of muscle he can.


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## Black_S15 (Jul 14, 2010)

its simple, we should GSP move up an entire weight class, they should compromise and meet in the middle.

catchweight 177-178.

people on here saying GSP is ducking, what a bout silva??

oh wait theres another middleweight that silva appears to be ducking on a much more extreme scale.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

RedRocket44 said:


> When has GSP ever given the impression that he does? He's always deflected the question - he's not a MW and he's earned the right to refuse.
> 
> I think this is Zahabi's way of telling the fans to back off a little bit and let GSP decide where he wants to fight. I'm betting it would be just as easy for him to move up to 185 or down to 155, but why should he do either? He's fighting at his natural weight class, and there are fights left for both Silva and GSP at their weight classes. Also, as good as a Silva/GSP superfight would be, why is nobody talking about an Edgar/GSP Superfight.
> 
> ...






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T12mSJcSSR0


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T12mSJcSSR0


Did you watch that video marc?

Didn't look to me like Gsp wants Silva. he doesn't care about fighting him and he doesn't care what you think of it.

Why is no one crying for him to fight Edgar? If fighting frankie is not good for GSP's "legacy" why would Silva want to fight him?

some of you guys amaze me. wishing death on someone because you don't like the way they play a game?

you should be ashamed.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Frankie would whoop that ass and send him straight back to 170.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Ok so why exactly would the most dominant champ in WW history move DOWN a weight class again? When he hasn't even lost at the current weight class? 

This moron doesn't seem to get the idea of weight classes being more challenging as they go UP from your natural weight.


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

Should Brock go to 205? :confused02:




























lol....personally Im tired of this weight class sh!t, even the talk of Edgar moving to 145


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...GSP walks around at 185. He even stated that when was asked about fighting Anderson. Sure he could make 155 and look worse than Kenny does at 145. We're talkin' a *30* lb total weight cut. If he fought Frankie, GSP wouldn't last 3 rounds at Edgar's pace...


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

GSP walks around at 193lbs... I doubt he can cut to 155 without losing some muscle first. 

He could easily make 185 and still be well-sized though.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

GSP still has some solid competitors to clean out. Anderson doesn't. If anyone should be moving up it should be Anderson. He's a huge MW and he's already fought at LHW.

I don't see why people aren't bagging on Anderson about fighting Jones when that's such a more realistic fight than GSP Silva.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

How's GSP ducking Anderson? I'll go out and say Anderson is ducking the likes of Jones, Evans etc. Who has Anderson left to face in MW, only Chael Sonnen IMO. GSP has Condit, Diaz, Ellenberger looking stronger than ever. 

It's their careers and it's sad you have to hate a fighter because they don't go up in weight class because you'd want to see it.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Rauno said:


> How's GSP ducking Anderson? I'll go out and say Anderson is ducking the likes of Jones, Evans etc. Who has Anderson left to face in MW, only Chael Sonnen IMO. GSP has Condit, Diaz, Ellenberger looking stronger than ever.
> 
> It's their careers and it's sad you have to hate a fighter because they don't go up in weight class because you'd want to see it.


Well, to be fair, Anderson already moved up to 205 twice, and one of those times was against Forrest right after he lost is title. Forrest was the #2 ranked guy at 205 at the time, and Anderson tooled him horribly.

It would be like GSP moving up and facing Sonnen, or Jones moving up and facing JDS, or Frankie moving up and facing Fitch/Penn. Anderson didn't beat the champion, sure, but he beat the #2 guy in the division, who just came off beating Shogun and Rampage.

GSP, on the other hand, throws out so many excuses and reasons when being talked to about moving up in weight. He has no real interest in fighting Anderson, or anyone at MW. You can say it's about his legacy, and I'd agree, he doesn't want to lose at a higher weight and hurt his legacy at MW (not that it would, there's no harm in losing at a higher weight).

Do I blame him for this? Not at all. If a person doesn't want to move up, he shouldn't have to. Also, if I were GSP, I wouldn't want to fight Anderson either. He's much bigger, much more height/reach, he's as dangerous of a striker as one can get, and he'd submit GSP off his back. 

So, I'm not judging GSP, but all the evidence goes straight to him wanting no part of Anderson or the MW division, for obvious reasons, and when something like this comes out where his coach wants him to move DOWN in weight, one really has to wonder.


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## Wombatsu (Jul 10, 2006)

NOTHING MORE THAN TALK. GSP would be a skeleton at 155, it would most likely be a disadvantage for him to ever do this which i seriously doubt would EVER happen.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> Ok so why exactly would the most dominant champ in WW history move DOWN a weight class again? When he hasn't even lost at the current weight class?
> 
> This moron doesn't seem to get the idea of weight classes being more challenging as they go UP from your natural weight.


He has 2 losses in welterweight.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Rauno said:


> He has 2 losses in welterweight.


Since his current title reign began I meant, as in people usually move down after losing a title/title shot.

But yeah you got me, poor choice of words.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

155? Really? Why?. . . Theres no challenge at 155 big enough to warrant dropping to LW.

Fight Silva. Aside from the guys Clover mentioned above, thats all GSP has left to do in his career.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> Since his current title reign began I meant, as in people usually move down after losing a title/title shot.
> 
> But yeah you got me, poor choice of words.


GSP's dominance makes it easy to forget about his 2 losses though.


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## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

Losing functional muscle mass in order to make 155 would be pointless, imo. He is clearly a natural WW, probably leaning towards one of the bigger ones. If any champ can easily flip between weightclasses right now it's Edgar. He walks around at 155 therefore he'd only have to lose a measly 10lbs of water weight to get to 145. Easy peasy cut. I can see him beating Aldo


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## out 4 the count (Oct 13, 2008)

GSP has the dedication and willpower to probably make every single weight in MMA if he wanted. I don't see why he should drop from his best weight though, it's not his problem nobody is as good. He will lose eventually and I'd rather see the changing of the guard happen at a weight where people can't instantly make excuses.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

RedRocket44 said:


> How is he bullshitting, if by your own words GSP could make 155?
> 
> I do agree that it is likely terrible for your body to be cutting that kind of weight all the time though.
> 
> I wouldn't go as far as calling weight cutting cheating, but I admit I'm not a huge fan of it. Cutting too much definitely hurts performance, so it somewhat evens itself out in my eyes.



Because he's suggesting that GSP is some type of small WW when he's clearly not. 194lbs and ripped is not ******* small.

GSP could make 155lb by taking diuretics and other drugs and cheating to make weight like most of these pricks do. These assholes insult our intelligence by telling us that is humanly possible to cut 25, 30 sometimes even 40lbs in a few hours just by sweating it off.



MikeHawk said:


> GSP still has some solid competitors to clean out. Anderson doesn't. If anyone should be moving up it should be Anderson. He's a huge MW and he's already fought at LHW.
> 
> *I don't see why people aren't bagging on Anderson about fighting Jones when that's such a more realistic fight than GSP Silva.*


Why??


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

double


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

I think the only way GSP makes 155 is if he cuts off a leg or two.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

ASKREN4WIN said:


> I think the only way GSP makes 155 is if he cuts off a leg or two.


..or loses some of that muscle, which wouldn't be a wise choice. He is perfect at WW, a move down would mean he'd have to trim down muscle, a move up would mean some more muscle mass which would make him slower. For a fighter who relies a lot on speed and explosiveness, that's a big no.


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## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

Well this is really odd. Didn't really see this coming at all. I'm not too sure what to think about it. He hardly is a small WW though.​


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Frankie would beat GSP at 155.


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

GOtta say when people say GSP isn't a big WW it makes me gag. Looking at him beside Alves it's obvious he's a big WW. Maybe not the biggest but definitely big. The guy's thighs are like tree trunks.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Found this fun picture:


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

Rauno said:


> Found this fun picture:


Didnt realize GSP was that short......hed get smashed easily......Iwouldnt want to fight Andy either if i was as small as he is


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Bscoop09 said:


> Didnt realize GSP was that short......hed get smashed easily......Iwouldnt want to fight Andy either if i was as small as he is


He seems to be thicker than Anderson though.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

oldfan said:


> Did you watch that video marc?
> 
> Didn't look to me like Gsp wants Silva. he doesn't care about fighting him and he doesn't care what you think of it.
> 
> ...


Glad someone notices the hypocrisy in all this!


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

oldfan said:


> Did you watch that video marc?
> 
> Didn't look to me like Gsp wants Silva. he doesn't care about fighting him and he doesn't care what you think of it.
> 
> ...


Edgar has only had 3 title defenses with two fighters, there are plenty of LWs lined up for a title shot.

GSP and Silva hve been champoin and have been domnating their division much longer than Edgar has. Add in the fact that the debate for P$P #1 fighter is mostly between Silva and GSP.

For the record I have no interest in seeing GSP/Silva fight anymore, but I surely do not want to see GSP/Edgar either.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

Rauno said:


> Found this fun picture:


I didn't think there was that much of a size difference between the 2...

Knowing this, I don't blame GSP for not wanting to fight AS (on top of the fact that the mofo's got skills!!)...

I'd like to see a similar picture (side by side comparison) between JBJ and AS...


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Rauno said:


> Found this fun picture:


GSP is a big girl. So what if hes considerably smaller then arguably the best fighter the sport has ever seen. Thats no excuse damn it. Its but a tiny insignificant statistic.

No. He should go in there, even if he doesn't think he can win, and have a go... otherwise hes a big salad eating, frilly knicker wearing poof.

The fans demand it...


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## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

Roflcopter said:


> He's clearing bullshitting, but the fucked up part is GSP probably could make 155 the same way a guy like Marquardt made 170. These assholes ******* cheat to make weight and everyone turns a blind eye. I am so sick of it, I can't wait until these guys get into their 40s and 50s and their organs fail and they die for being cheating scumbags and abusing drugs


While I can definitelty appreciate your passion, I really wish you wouldn't refer to these fighters as, "pricks" and, "assholes", and that you, "can't wait until...they die".
You're a solid poster; I'm betting you can make your points just as easily using less vitriol.

As for the discussion at hand, they're Firhas Zahabi's comments, not GSP's; and he's just spit-balling anyway. 

IMO, it's important to remember that GSP _is_ a WW. This business of moving up/down in weight isn't for everyone, and I have to say I respect the man for choosing not to bend (over) in whatever direction the wind happens to be blowing. 

.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

They are scum. 

Largely why I became disenchanted with the UFC for a brief time a while ago.

JMMA is so much more pure and the embodiment of what MMA should be...but it's about to die now.


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## M*I*R (Nov 17, 2010)

lol he could never make the cut


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

What the ****!?!?!


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Roflcopter said:


> They are scum.
> 
> Largely why I became disenchanted with the UFC for a brief time a while ago.
> 
> JMMA is so much more pure and the embodiment of what MMA should be...but it's about to die now.


lol @ JMMA is more pure ... if you think they had LESS performance enhancers in Japan, you have no idea. Pride was one huge roid fueled orgy, far more than the UFC.

They had no testing for the longest time, and many of the ex-pride superstars have talked about the extent of steroid abuse there. 

You think guys like Bob Sapp, Randelman and Coleman just popped a can of spinach before a fight?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

M*I*R said:


> lol he could never make the cut


Somebody who saw the pics here before the edit want to pm me.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> lol @ JMMA is more pure ... if you think they had LESS performance enhancers in Japan, you have no idea. Pride was one huge roid fueled orgy, far more than the UFC.
> 
> They had no testing for the longest time, and many of the ex-pride superstars have talked about the extent of steroid abuse there.
> 
> You think guys like Bob Sapp, Randelman and Coleman just popped a can of spinach before a fight?


From foreign fighters.

I'm talking about Japanese fighters. DREAM and Sengoku were pretty cool for a while.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Frankie Edgar would beat GSP. He's a better boxer and I believe he has the wrestling and scrambling ability to neutralise GSP's wrestling.

Anderson Silva has a one inch reach advantage over GSP. One inch. GSP is also the much leaner, stockier fighter.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

I really don't care about Silva/GSP it has been clear for a long time that GSP doesn't want it at all. If LW wasn't stacked and a complete log jam because of the title getting held up in instant rematches twice I would love to see GSP fight Edgar. It would be poetic justice to see GSP get TKOed trying to bolster his legacy against a guy who could easily make 145 after backing out of moving up to fight Silva.


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

Am I the only one would actually like to see GSP at 155. I think 170 belongs to his boy "Rory McDonanld" now..That dude is a beast. I don't see anyone beating him for years to come.

Going to 185 has too many threats..Anderson, Vitor, Chael. Those are some big dudes who could cause some matup issues for him.

I think 155 Is great for him..It's a new challenge and the competion is better then 170. I don't know why people act like the WW is so stacked. Beyong GSP, Rory, Condit, Diaz..There are a bunch of average guys...Kos, Fitch..Really??? Penn is the Man..But he is a 155er!!! He is just so good he will fight anywhere anytime.

So for once I'm gonna stick up for GSP and look at this as a Postive thing. I think it takes Balls to leave your weight class no matter what.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

You guys. GSP didn't even say a word of this, it was all Zahabi. GSP has dominated every single top welterweight in the world, easily, for his entire career.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

GSP does weight training, if he put the weights down he would likely lose 10 lbs of muscle in his chest and then just cut from 180.

I think Gray and Tibeu cut from 190lb


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

I have a hard time blaming GPS or labelling him as a coward for not moving up a weight class. GSP is just being smart. 

GSP's fighting style relies on his strength and athleticism to implement his wrestling and control the fight. By fighting someone so much taller, with a much greater reach, and also much stronger, GSP loses all the aspects of his game that make him a champion. GSP is all about physical control and physical domination. Anderson's size negates GSP's ability to work his gameplan. Why would GSP be interested in the worst possible match up for him physically? Don't get me wrong, I wanna see the fight too, but if I was GSP I would be very apprehensive about taking this fight as well. You have to fight someone who is much bigger than you and is incredibly skilled. There isn't anything fair about it. It is the perfect example of why we created weight classes.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Ape City said:


> I have a hard time blaming GPS or labelling him as a coward for not moving up a weight class. GSP is just being smart.
> 
> GSP's fighting style relies on his strength and athleticism to implement his wrestling and control the fight. By fighting someone so much taller, with a much greater reach, and also much stronger, GSP loses all the aspects of his game that make him a champion. GSP is all about physical control and physical domination. Anderson's size negates GSP's ability to work his gameplan. Why would GSP be interested in the worst possible match up for him physically? Don't get me wrong, I wanna see the fight too, but if I was GSP I would be very apprehensive about taking this fight as well. You have to fight someone who is much bigger than you and is incredibly skilled. There isn't anything fair about it. It is the perfect example of why we created weight classes.


Anderson doesn't have a much greater reach. Anderson in fact only actually has a staggering one inch reach advantage over GSP. Anderson may be the taller man, but he isn't any where near as lean as GSP. I'd say GSP is definitely the more physically stronger man.

Anderson is taller and skinnier than GSP and has a one inch reach advantage over him. GSP is shorter, stockier and has a huge advantage in wrestling over Anderson. 

The whole size thing is blown massively out of proportion. GSP just doesn't want to fight Anderson and I'm not sure why, because stylistically, he is a nightmare match up for Andy.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Anderson doesn't have a much greater reach. Anderson in fact only actually has a staggering one inch reach advantage over GSP. Anderson may be the taller man, but he isn't any where near as lean as GSP. I'd say GSP is definitely the more physically stronger man.
> 
> Anderson is taller and skinnier than GSP and has a one inch reach advantage over him. GSP is shorter, stockier and has a huge advantage in wrestling over Anderson.
> 
> The whole size thing is blown massively out of proportion. GSP just doesn't want to fight Anderson and I'm not sure why, because stylistically, he is a nightmare match up for Andy.



One of the only times ever where your post on the subject would mirror mine. This exactly.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

My Name Is Stun Gun And I Want Gsp!


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Anderson doesn't have a much greater reach. Anderson in fact only actually has a staggering one inch reach advantage over GSP. Anderson may be the taller man, but he isn't any where near as lean as GSP. I'd say GSP is definitely the more physically stronger man.
> 
> Anderson is taller and skinnier than GSP and has a one inch reach advantage over him. GSP is shorter, stockier and has a huge advantage in wrestling over Anderson.
> 
> The whole size thing is blown massively out of proportion. GSP just doesn't want to fight Anderson and I'm not sure why, because stylistically, he is a nightmare match up for Andy.


Reach is measured in a pretty ridiculous way. It includes the width of the shoulders, which, when standing in a striking position, is not the same as having long arms. Anderson has very long arms. GSP has broad shoulders. In a full extension like a superman punch GSP would have an accurate measurement of reach. With a jab his shoulders will not be perpendicular to his arms and therefore his full "reach" not utilized. 

You can test this out in real life very easily. Find someone tall with long arms and compare their reach to someone with broad shoulders who is short. You will find they have very similar reach if you chose correctly. Now put them ina typical MMA-striking stance and tell them to extend there arms as if they are jabbing. The guy with the longer arms will have a significant advantage.

I really do not think the size thing is blown out of proportion at all. I spar and grapple with my brother all the time. He is 6"1 and weigh about 185. I am 5"10 and weigh 230. Oh and I have 1 inch reach advantage if we measure the standard way. But when we strike it is unbelievable how much I notice the length of his arms coming into play. He can jab me so easily from a distance in which I cannot jab him. On top of that I have to *punch up*. If you have ever sparred or fought someone 3 inches taller or more you will know this is a slight challenge as well.

Also GSP may look like he is bulkier, but there is strength in long limbs. Long limbs = long muscles. I really believe Anderson Silva is stronger than GSP. I think GSPs only advantage in this fight is wrestling.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> One of the only times ever where your post on the subject would mirror mine. This exactly.


Go away.



Ape City said:


> Reach is measured in a pretty ridiculous way. It includes the width of the shoulders, which, when standing in a striking position, is not the same as having long arms. Anderson has very long arms. GSP has broad shoulders. In a full extension like a superman punch GSP would have an accurate measurement of reach. With a jab his shoulders will not be perpendicular to his arms and therefore his full "reach" not utilized.
> 
> You can test this out in real life very easily. Find someone tall with long arms and compare their reach to someone with broad shoulders who is short. You will find they have very similar reach if you chose correctly. Now put them ina typical MMA-striking stance and tell them to extend there arms as if they are jabbing. The guy with the longer arms will have a significant advantage.
> 
> ...


Good post. Are reach measurements for fighters not a bit pointless then? I understand what you mean about having to punch up against a taller opponent too. I think this is one of the reasons Nick Diaz is so successful with his boxing, he can punch down on his opponents and pick them off, whilst they constant have to punch upwards and avoid his long arms.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Ape City said:


> Reach is measured in a pretty ridiculous way. It includes the width of the shoulders, which, when standing in a striking position, is not the same as having long arms.



Uh... you don't punch with your shoulders totally flat like you're pressed against a wall. dur.


























The only thing dumb about how they measure reach is they go from fingertip to fingertip, so if you have giantly long Nosferatu fingers then you'll have a deceptive reach measurement.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Go away.
> 
> 
> 
> Good post. Are reach measurements for fighters not a bit pointless then? I understand what you mean about having to punch up against a taller opponent too. I think this is one of the reasons Nick Diaz is so successful with his boxing, he can punch down on his opponents and pick them off, whilst they constant have to punch upwards and avoid his long arms.


I feel like reach measurement is pointless the way it is currently done. I could be missing something, but I don't think I am. Perhaps someone more educated on the subject could enlighten me, but, when you take into consideration that many MMA fighters use a slightly more squared-off stance than boxing, I don't see how including shoulders creates an accurate reach. It seems to me the length of a fighters arms is farm more important.

I can just imagine GSP and Anderson squaring off in a typical mma stance and extending a left jab. 

I agree that I think Diaz has the perfect frame for his style. Diaz can stay squared off against his opponents to defend the takedowns, but use his long reach to continually land pitter patter jabs, all the while keeping a distance that his opponents cannot return fire.



khoveraki said:


> Uh... you don't punch with your shoulders totally flat like you're pressed against a wall. dur.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Obviously you don't punch like you are flat against a wall, but you also don't keep your shoulders parallel to your opponent in mma. When you fully commit to a punch, yes, you do. when jabbing or boxing in mma fighters often keep their shoulder slightly more squared off than boxers in anticipation of a take down. Even when in a completer boxing stance your shoulders are rarely a straight line when compared with the angle of the punching arm which obviously creates inconsistencies in reach measurement. You can see in both pictures GSP's shoulders are far from being perpendicular with his arms.

I will admit the first example GSP is definitely making the most our of his shoulder length. It still isn't quite straight though. I know his shoulders are just on an angle but mathematically it has to make a difference.


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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

I'm calling horsesh!t. 

GSP ain't makin 155.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> Uh... you don't punch with your shoulders totally flat like you're pressed against a wall. dur.


Andy disagrees.










Weirdest knock out ever.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Andy disagrees.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is the weirdest KO ever, no shoulder and hip movement, I couldn't even call that a short jab, if I didn't know any better Griffin just gave up in that fight and the punch that hit him just made him say fook it i'll stay down


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Ape City said:


> Obviously you don't punch like you are flat against a wall, but you also don't keep your shoulders squared at your opponent in mma. When you fully commit to a punch, yes, you do. when jabbing or boxing in mma fighters often keep their shoulder slightly more squared off than boxers in anticipation of a take down. Even when in a completer boxing stance your shoulders are rarely a straight line when compared with the angle of the punching arm which obviously creates inconsistencies in reach measurement. You can see in both pictures GSP's shoulders are far from being perpendicular with his arms.
> 
> I will admit the first example GSP is definitely making the most our of his shoulder length. It still isn't quite straight though. I know his shoulders are just on an angle but mathematically it has to make a difference.


You line up your body when you jab because it's the only way to do it correctly. If your shoulders are flat like you're against a wall and punch you have no power or resistance. 

The right ways:




















the wrong way:











Shoulder width matters. That's why Brock Lesnar has a super giant reach (he missed Randy's head and accidentally punched the back of it, KNOCKING him out, which his giant reach).




UFC_OWNS said:


> That is the weirdest KO ever, no shoulder and hip movement, I couldn't even call that a short jab, if I didn't know any better Griffin just gave up in that fight and the punch that hit him just made him say fook it i'll stay down


"anchor punch" but it's still so goddamn confusing. Thank god the sport is so legit nowadays because people would otherwise be convinced that was a dive, so ridiculous looking. maybe super accurate punch + forrest's forward momentum + silva turning his hand over adding power, it really just looks like he paws him though.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> You line up your body when you jab because it's the only way to do it correctly. If your shoulders are flat like you're against a wall and punch you have no power or resistance.
> 
> The right ways:
> 
> ...


Yeah I was about to think if it was a new sport I would swear that fight was fixed, before that he was known for an iron chin too


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

I know in a perfect situation you would line up each jab but in mma we often see guys using modified stances and throwing modified jabs because of the fear of a takedown. If there is no fear of a takedown then fighters will probably be throwing proper jabs from traditional boxing stances. When takedowns are an issue, which they often are in mma, you see guys, like Silva, using modified stances to get the best from both worlds. In these modified stances long arms > long reach from the shoulders. Again...just my opinion from what I have seen and experienced.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> Shoulder width matters. That's why Brock Lesnar has a super giant reach (he missed Randy's head and accidentally punched the back of it, KNOCKING him out, which his giant reach).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The first pick isn't exactly the right way his chin should be tucked into his shoulder more. A great deal of boxers don't even do it right.










That and Forrest had been rocked like 4 times in the span of a minute and a half already.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Similar to the Ali phantom punch.


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## Steroid Steve (Oct 1, 2010)

Rauno said:


> How's GSP ducking Anderson? I'll go out and say Anderson is ducking the likes of Jones, Evans etc. Who has Anderson left to face in MW, only Chael Sonnen IMO. GSP has Condit, Diaz, Ellenberger looking stronger than ever.
> 
> It's their careers and it's sad you have to hate a fighter because they don't go up in weight class because you'd want to see it.


At this point in his career, how is Anderson ducking a guy who only has one title defense in Jones? Also Jones has came out and said that he doesn't want to fight Silva, so is he ducking him because he said that? I could understand if Jones cleaned out LHW and had no else really to fight that are worthy like the situation with GSP, but it's different. He has a lot to prove before he gets such a big fight, and if Evans wants a shot, he could easily move down to MW and earn one. Anderson is at a point in his career where potentially holding two belts is probably too much. It would require him to fight more, or else it could hold up fights in a division.


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## ProdigyPenn (Sep 9, 2011)

I say GSP should stay right at 170. 

I believe GSP can make 155. If Kenny is able to make 145, why not GSP to 155. But why should he? I believe top WW such as Fitch, Kos, Condit and Diaz are better than almost 80% of the currently weight. Also, BJ Pen would have beat anyone at lightweight not name Frankie Edgar. If GSP is able to beat them all, I dont he how any lightweight would pose a problem for him. Maybe Edgar Speed. But once he caught Edgar and take him down, that's it. He will control Edgar with his size. 

As far as 185 superfight with Anderson goes, I agree that GSP might really be giving up too much size there. Although stylistically, GSP is nightmare for Anderson. But the size differences will give Anderson the edge and negate the effectiveness of GSP wrestling. Even other Middleweight such as Sonnen and Okami pose some problem for GSP. 

IF there is a need for Superfight, I say do a JBJ VS Anderson Silva. Size wise, the difference is smaller than GSP/Anderson. Their standup war would be epic.


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

*Lets be honest with ourselves here. Does anyone really have any interest or has ever even thought about GSP fighting at LW? NO!!!!

We want to see GSP either stay at WW or move to MW.* :confused03:





/THREAD


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## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

This is mostly heresay, but after watching Frankie's apparent elusiveness, I'm not all that convinced GSP would beat him. I could easily see Frankie out pointing GSP to a five round victory. I don't think GSP could score effective TD's against Frankie, either.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

Servatose said:


> This is mostly heresay, but after watching Frankie's apparent elusiveness, I'm not all that convinced GSP would beat him. I could easily see Frankie out pointing GSP to a five round victory. I don't think GSP could score effective TD's against Frankie, either.


I'd think the size difference would be too much. GSP is a large WW, and Edgar is a small LW.

It would be an interesting fight, but not as interesting as GSP/Silva.

Dont be scared, Homie!


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

lmfao at anyone thinking Edgar would have even a slight chance at beating GSP. I don't think Edgar and Maynard at the same time would threaten GSP much.


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## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> lmfao at anyone thinking Edgar would have even a slight chance at beating GSP. I don't think Edgar and Maynard at the same time would threaten GSP much.


I would return the same amount of laughter at someone thinking any UFC level champion doesn't have a chance at defeating another human within 10 pounds of them. If GSP were to drop to LW, Frankie would likely possess a speed advantage. I didn't definitely say he would win, but I don't think it's all that unreasonable to suggest that he could play the elusive boxing game he did against BJ, against GSP, scoring TD's when GSP over commits to trying to catch him. Again, I'm not predicting the fight, I'm saying I could see it as a possibility. And I'd argue that if you literally think it's impossible for GSP to lose to Frankie, without providing reasons that Frankie can't do something he's already done to larger opponents, it's blatant trollism, except I know you as a good poster Khov, so I'm curious to see you expound on your opinion.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> lmfao at anyone thinking Edgar would have even a slight chance at beating GSP. I don't think Edgar and Maynard at the same time would threaten GSP much.


Not only would Frankie win he would smash GSP.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

osmium said:


> Not only would Frankie win he would smash GSP.


I wouldn't go so far. Sure Frankie has a legitimate shot with his consistent moving and elusive style but he did ate a lot of shots and a lot of uppercuts from Maynard. GSP and his jab are a lot faster than Maynard.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Rauno said:


> I wouldn't go so far. Sure Frankie has a legitimate shot with his consistent moving and elusive style but he did ate a lot of shots and a lot of uppercuts from Maynard. GSP and his jab are a lot faster than Maynard.


GSP doesn't have 1/4 the boxing skills of Maynard or the balls to constantly try to press the pocket and throw with bad intention and Frankie wouldn't have any problems slipping that jab.


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## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

osmium said:


> GSP doesn't have 1/4 the boxing skills of Maynard or the balls to constantly try to press the pocket and throw with bad intention and Frankie wouldn't have any problems slipping that jab.


This. GSP's lack of high-level boxing skills became evident when his game plan against BJ Penn was to take a world champion level BJJ practitioner to the ground and grind him out. Frankie out boxed BJ and I firmly believe he would do the same to GSP, while keeping the movement to avoid the TD's.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Frankie would make GSP's boxing look foolish. Frankie has much better footwork, a more diverse array of punches, better combinations, faster hand speed...He's just a much better overall boxer. It's the wrestling department which is a bit of question mark. Frankie has proven to be an outstanding MMA wrestler, but he's going up against GSP. I personally think Frankie has the wrestling to neutralise GSP's take downs and ground control.

Thinking about it more, I'd actually love to see this fight. I think it would be a huge reality check for GSP fans.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

Mckeever said:


> Frankie would make GSP's boxing look foolish. Frankie has much better footwork, a more diverse array of punches, better combinations, faster hand speed...He's just a much better overall boxer. It's the wrestling department which is a bit of question mark. Frankie has proven to be an outstanding MMA wrestler, but he's going up against GSP. I personally think Frankie has the wrestling to neutralise GSP's take downs and ground control.
> 
> Thinking about it more, I'd actually love to see this fight. I think it would be a huge reality check for GSP fans.


Mckeever.. long time man.

The scary thing is I don't think GSP could make the 155lb cut.. it would be like seeing Kenny Florian in FW.

I think what makes GSP so explosive is the weight class he's in. I agree that Frankie's head movement is light years ahead.


That would be a very interesting fight... but I think this is a PR stunt, trying to make things uncertain. GSP's team knows he can't take Silva and are eluding to other things.

That's just me... :confused05: and I'm a big GSP fan.


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Frankie would make GSP's boxing look foolish. Frankie has much better footwork, a more diverse array of punches, better combinations, faster hand speed...He's just a much better overall boxer. It's the wrestling department which is a bit of question mark. Frankie has proven to be an outstanding MMA wrestler, but he's going up against GSP. I personally think Frankie has the wrestling to neutralise GSP's take downs and ground control.
> 
> Thinking about it more, I'd actually love to see this fight. I think it would be a huge reality check for GSP fans.


I can't even tell if this is supposed to be sarcasm. Frankie is smart and fast, but size matters a lot at this level. If GSP did somehow manage to get to 155 (I don't actually think for a second he could), he would have an absurd size advantage over Edgar, who is already a very small 155. There would be no way for Edgar to win this fight, he might be able to avoid a few takedowns, but he would spend the whole fight avoiding them, and sooner or later he'd get taken down, and he would not have one chance in hell of getting up again.

It's like saying GSP could beat Brock Lesnar because he has better striking and is a great wrestler. He wouldn't have a prayer, the size difference would be too much. The difference for Edgar wouldnt' be that bad, but it would still be 20-30 pounds, which is just way way too much.

It doesn't matter, the point is moot, there is no way GSP could make 155 without destroying internal organs along with his cardio, it would be ridiculous for him to try. WW is clearly his best weight.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

He wouldn't be any bigger than Gray. The most he would weigh in the cage is like 180.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Mckeever said:


> Frankie would make GSP's boxing look foolish. Frankie has much better footwork, a more diverse array of punches, better combinations, faster hand speed...He's just a much better overall boxer.


He's a better boxer but GSP is a better and far more complete striker. Frankie will have to defend against GSP's arsenal of kicks, and if GSP is smart he'll kick the crap out of Frankie's legs to slow him down. Add in GSP's takedowns and Frankie's going to be at a serious disadvantage, his chances of beating GSP wouldn't be much better than my chances of beating him. It's not impossible, but I'd rather buy lottery tickets than bet on it happening.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

aerius said:


> He's a better boxer but GSP is a better and far more complete striker. Frankie will have to defend against GSP's arsenal of kicks, and if GSP is smart he'll kick the crap out of Frankie's legs to slow him down. Add in GSP's takedowns and Frankie's going to be at a serious disadvantage, his chances of beating GSP wouldn't be much better than my chances of beating him. It's not impossible, but I'd rather buy lottery tickets than bet on it happening.


GSP has almost completely abandoned his kicks and karate since he's started working with Roach on his boxing (which he seems to be doing for every camp now). He seems to be much more focused on his boxing alone rather than mixing it up with kicks. And even with the kicks, I still think Frankie Edgar is a better striker. Frankie has some good kicks in his arsenal too.

I said the wrestling is a bit of a question mark, but I do feel Frankie is one of the most elite MMA wrestlers in the game. I think GSP would really struggle to take Frankie down and keep him down.


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