# Anderson Silva top 10 heavyqweight?



## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

I was wondering if Anderson Silva would be top 10 if he moved to heavyweight. I think it is realistic if he was to leave MW, but his manager says he may not be interested in that.

There was a proposed fight between him and Frank Mir, but Dana White says he first needs to fight at 205.

Would Anderson Silva be able to do it if he were to move up? reminder that Dan Henderson who Anderson beat at middleweight was able to beat Fedor and Noguiera who were top 10 at heavyweight


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

No - he wouldn't

... And I love Anderson

He would probably be able to beat up af few fringe-top 10 HWs but would never get close to the title... The 265 pound monsters of the division would toss him on his back and lay/pound on him and that would be that...

LHW though is much more interesting


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I agree with Bud. He would have some wins, but when one of these wrestlers who cuts to make 265 rolls in they would probably steam roll him. I think his striking is superior to all of the HW's, but it is hard to stop a takedown from someone who outweighs you by 60 pounds or so. Sure Couture stopped Lesnar, but he had a lifetime of experience from wrestling helping him out.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

I think he could beat mir, big nog, bigfoot and maybe cain...5 round fight maybe silva could catch him at some point...though i wonder how his chin would hold up against cains heavy hands...oh i think he might be able to beat werdum and roy nelson also


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

He would beat the strikers and lose to the grapplers.

Cormier, Cain, Barnett and any powerful wrestler would beat him. 

He's a better striker than JDS so Anderson V Junior on the feet most likely = a victory for Andy.. considering Anderson would be 6'2 230lbs with 78inch reach and JDS is 6'4 240lbs and same reach. 

I dunno if Werdum, Bigfoot Mir, Big Country etc. have the speed to take him down, Anderson's movement is excellent and he has equal reach to pretty much everyone in the division.

I know i'm a huge Anderson fan but I feel like i'm being fair, what do you guys think?


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

He could beat a few guys at HW.

I think LHW is far more realistic and I think he would take the title pretty easily at LHW. Jones was running when Rampage and Machida swung on him, I think Anderson would destroy him because there's just no running from the Spider, he`s too quick, too accurate, and too ruthless when he smells blood in the water.

If Anderson moved up to LHW and took the title as I think he should and could, then even a Fedor stalker like myself would concede that Anderson was the GOAT.

He's so far ahead of everyone at MW it's basically a joke.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

He could beat all of them "IF" they decided to stand, but the HWs are majority very strong wrestlers or grappling based fighters. That would be a major headache to deal with cuz some are over 265 limit. 

I really wonder how an Overeem, JDS, or Hunt match up would be like. 

Anderson Silva may step up to the LHW division if Hendo, Gustaf, Shogun, and Machida, all lose again.


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## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

Anderson is a perfect MMA middlewieght; his body and mind obviously respond about as well as anyone's can to that particular cut, and he enjoys an advantage in speed over most of the other guys in that division.

I have no idea what he would look like at HW, but I have to suspect he would be slower, his strikes wouldn't have the same effect, and he wouldn't be as powerful as the majority of the fighters up there. 

Until I see him actually in the octagon at HW, I'm simply going to say AS at HW is unpossible, so the OP becomes mute.

.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

He could probably get into the top 10 with the right matchups. I think he would completely destroy guys like Struve and Nelson.


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## JWP (Jun 4, 2007)

MRBRESK said:


> He would beat the strikers and lose to the grapplers.
> 
> Cormier, Cain, Barnett and any powerful wrestler would beat him.
> 
> ...



no i was thinking the same thing. although there is a weight advantage there is a big speed disadvantage. the more athletic guys like cormier, velasquez would probably get the better of him (silva still more than a punchers chance i would think)

and the slower guys like the ones you mentioned would not get a hold of him and get punched and kicked alot

to answer the original question, yes maybe at this stage he could/would be top ten

but in future as the division improves (which it will) then it would be a different answer


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

He'd definitely be a top 10 HW.

Sure, Cormier and Cain and JDS would probably beat him but those are three guys, not 7.

He's beat Big Nog(they wouldn't fight but still).....He'd beat Travis freaking Brown, he'd kill Bigfoot and Nelson as well as Struve....etc.


Also Anderson is nowhere near 230lbs...he's around 220 ish when hes completely fat and out of shape.

He's around 210 when he fights at LHW and would be fighting at HW at around the same weight.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

cdtcpl said:


> I agree with Bud. He would have some wins, but when one of these wrestlers who cuts to make 265 rolls in they would probably steam roll him. I think his striking is superior to all of the HW's, but it is hard to stop a takedown from someone who outweighs you by 60 pounds or so. Sure Couture stopped Lesnar, but he had a lifetime of experience from wrestling helping him out.


I agree in that I think IF they get him down, they would cause him quite some trouble, BUT the question is, would a 265er be able to move his bodyweight fast enough to catch a 230 Silva¿ Dos Santos stops most of the take down attempts by just not being there anymore, because he has good distance management.

Silva doesn't even need much more power, because the beauty (and effectiveness) of his strikes is their timing and accuracy which are even better than Dos Santos'.

So I can see Silva making quite some noise at HW, with probably Velasquez and his fast shot giving him the most trouble.


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

when I imagine Andy at HW, I see the first Chael fight, only with huge fight ending haymaker thrown on the ground. the G&P always amazes me at HW it's like they're trying to take the opponent's head off.


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## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

H33LHooK said:


> Anderson is a perfect MMA middlewieght; his body and mind obviously respond about as well as anyone's can to that particular cut, and he enjoys an advantage in speed over most of the other guys in that division.
> 
> I have no idea what he would look like at HW, but I have to suspect he would be slower, his strikes wouldn't have the same effect, and he wouldn't be as powerful as the majority of the fighters up there.
> 
> ...


Finally, someone on this post that isn't a Silva fan boy, posting realistic comments. Yes, I agree Silva is the P4P best, very few even come close. But to say he'd run thru the HW class is ludicrous, he would do great at LHW and probably end up holding that belt as well, no way does he do the same at HW. First he'd have to put on weight, which would be mostly chub, (he's pretty doughy as it is)as he doesn't have a tremendous amount of muscle to begin with and that will slow him down and would also effect his gas tank. If he were to move to HW, the only people that he could stand a chance of beating is guys like Pat Barry (sorry Pat, I'm a big fan but it is what it is). Put him against JDS and he'd be dead meat in the 1st round.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

hadoq said:


> *when I imagine Andy at HW, I see the first Chael fight*, only with huge fight ending haymaker thrown on the ground. the G&P always amazes me at HW it's like they're trying to take the opponent's head off.


But who is there at HW to shoot for TDs like Sonnen¿ Valasquez maybe, but who else¿


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## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

Voiceless said:


> But who is there at HW to shoot for TDs like Sonnen¿ Valasquez maybe, but who else¿


There are many, many different ways to secure a TD, and I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that AS would be sacrificing some of his speed and nimbleness fighting at HW.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

H33LHooK said:


> There are many, many different ways to secure a TD, and I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that AS would be sacrificing some of his speed and nimbleness fighting at HW.


No, it's not unreasonable, but that would be in first place a problem if his opponents at HW were as fast and nimble as his opponents at MW, but they aren't. They are much slower already. So even if Silva becomes slower, the gap in speed, nimbleness and timing between him and his opponents remains the same or would even be bigger against the heavier HWs.

The only question is, how he would put on that weight to fight at HW.


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## LOL.DMH (Jul 10, 2012)

Anderson would be left stankin' by the majority of the HW division, completely different ballgame in terms of punching power and grappling.


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

Name me 10 HWs that would even be competitive with Silva.

1 JDS
2 Overeem
3 Cain
4 Cormier 
5 Werdum
6 Carwin
7 Mir
8 Nelson
9 Barnett?
10 Browne?

Are you kidding? I think a better question would be is he top 5 HW.


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## paulfromtulsa (Jan 13, 2007)

what if he moved to lightweight? could he beat ben henderson?


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## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

Voiceless said:


> No, it's not unreasonable, but that would be in first place a problem if his opponents at HW were as fast and nimble as his opponents at MW, but they aren't. They are much slower already. So even if Silva becomes slower, the gap in speed, nimbleness and timing between him and his opponents remains the same or would even be bigger against the heavier HWs.
> 
> The only question is, how he would put on that weight to fight at HW.


Would it be a straw-man to submit that there are a number of reasons AS doesn't want to fight Jon Jones, and a big one of those reasons is likely the size and strength differential?

AS just isn't a HW. Would he be a dynamic/effective LHW? I think we can all agree that the answer is yes.

But I don't think his body at HW would allow him to do the things that make him successful at MW, and I don't think he would be able to get himself out from under any of the good wrestlers/grapplers at HW. 
Unlike Sonnen, the top dogs at HW pack a helluva wallop- one or two would be all it would take.

It's a fun coversation, though. :thumb02:

.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

H33LHooK said:


> Would it be a straw-man to submit that there are a number of reasons AS doesn't want to fight Jon Jones, and a big one of those reasons is likely the size and strength differential?
> 
> AS just isn't a HW. Would he be a dynamic/effective LHW? I think we can all agree that the answer is yes.
> 
> ...


None of the UFC's top HWs are especially long fighters. Bones' reach is ridiculous. Struve is 6'11 and only has 3 inches longer reach than Andy. 

Fact of the matter is, Anderson was the same size as Forrest in their fight (that's a lot bigger than 210 Roflcopter, can you get a source?) and Forrest could easily be a HW. Joey Beltran just made the cut to 205 and he was smaller than Te-Huna. 

Fact also is if JDS, Overeem and Hunt didn't take him down they'd probably all get KOed.

The top dogs do possess good punching power but if Vitor can't land anything on you then what the **** is Roy Nelson gonna do?


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

H33LHooK said:


> It's a fun coversation, though. :thumb02:


To not take the discussions too serious and hence not to be tempted to any name calling makes a good ambiance in which it's always good to discuss. I appreciate that very much :thumbsup:



H33LHooK said:


> Would it be a straw-man to submit that there are a number of reasons AS doesn't want to fight Jon Jones, and a big one of those reasons is likely the size and strength differential?


I would say it's _either_ the whole Jones package and primarily his reach (which is the same as Struve's, who lacks Jones' skills, while Silva has about the same reach as most of the HWs and even a slightly longer reach than Dos Santos). Reach plays an important role in Silva's counterstrike approach. And there is more or less no one at HW that poses the same threat P4P-wise as Jones. _Or_ Silva likes Jones, sees the future of (L)HW MMA in him and doesn't want to make him stumble in his young career (conspiracy theory)



> AS just isn't a HW. Would he be a dynamic/effective LHW? I think we can all agree that the answer is yes.
> 
> But I don't think his body at HW would allow him to do the things that make him successful at MW, and I don't think he would be able to get himself out from under any of the good wrestlers/grapplers at HW.
> Unlike Sonnen, the top dogs at HW pack a helluva wallop- one or two would be all it would take..


That I already said: "I agree in that I think IF they get him down, they would cause him quite some trouble, BUT the question is, would a 265er be able to move his bodyweight fast enough to catch a 230 Silva¿ Dos Santos stops most of the take down attempts by just not being there anymore, because he has good distance management."


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

The silly thing in most people's theories is that several of the top HWs have ALREADY LOST TO LIGHT HEAVYEWIGHTS AND LOWER.


Let alone Anderson ***ing Silva.


Let go off this stupid "HOHOH CHAEL WITH MORE POWER" shit.

Heavyweights suck.


Hunt taking Anderson down?


First of all, Hunt got KTFO in seconds by a Middleweight in Manhoef, and got outgrappled in submitted in a minute or two by a Light Heavyweight, so again, the idea that Anderson is going to lose to some of these guys JUST because he's a Middleweight is laughable.


Also, Anderson was nowhere near as big as Forrest in their fight, I seriously question people's ability to comprehend size other than just height. Forrest was much thicker and it wasn't even close.


And if you argue this point, I really have to question how absolutely ******* dense you can be.

This topic is not "Could Anderson win the HW title" because quite obviously JDS, Cain, Cormier and the likes should be favoured over him...after that...not so much.

Then you get down there to the 7-10 range which in HW standards is laughable and it's a joke to even suggest some of these guys belong in the same cage with a 215-220lb Anderson.


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## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

It seems like during one of the countdown shows they said Anderson's walk around weight is around 220 lbs. With the right kind of nutrition and weight lifting routine you would think that he could slowly move from MW to LHW to HW. Although, with the success that he's had at MW and LHW one would have to question why he would even attempt it. I'd really like to see him at LHW to end his career, but I really don't see him doing it unless the cut to 185 becomes to hard with age (like Hendo).


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Forrest is like an inch taller but they are of a similar thickness. Nobody said Mark Hunt could get him down. I said Hunt, Overeem and JDS (the best HW strikers) would be better off trying to take him down and land heavy GnP, they'd all be outclassed on the feet. You might wanna work on those reading comprehension skills.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

MRBRESK said:


> Forrest is like an inch taller but they are of a similar thickness.


It might appear so on first glance, but they are not. Take a ruler or something alike and compare their thickness at their breast, belly and lower legs. It's just some millimeters (Aussies are metric right¿) on screen, but that makes centimeters in reality and that makes several kilograms difference.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Forrest is noticeably much bigger in the lower body especially take a look at the thighs, calfs and shins....and Anderson, especially in live video is noticeably thin on his waste and lower upper torso area. Forrest also has bigger arms all around. They aren't the same size. Period.


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## Don$ukh (Jan 2, 2007)

When it comes to striking Silva can definetly show his striking without any disadvantages beside power. The weight difference wouldnt be a factor in pure striking unless he is put on the cage or using MT clinch. 

The weight difference has been nullified many times in K1 when watching elite 200lb guys beat elite 250lb+ guys. Look at Tyson in his HW prime, the guy was small but his speed was devastating.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

lol at Anderson knocking out JDS, you have got to be kidding. He took Carwin's shots and wasn't even scratched. Anderson Silva would get murdered at HW by anyone that can strike, JDS would corner him and ask him to quit so he doesn't have to break his face. Overeem would kick him once and he'd crumple into a ball. All due respect to AS, he's a MW. I could see a leg kick from Overeem completely sweeping his legs from underneath him. Anderson's advantage comes from his accuracy being able to knockout guys that don't have huge necks, anyone that can take a Carwin punch and not get knocked out would murder Anderson. Roy Nelson would grab him and pound him on the ground, Struve would just kick him. I could see him beating Pat Barry and that's it. GOAT at MW, he fought Forrest Griffin and a complete bum at LHW, whoopdee frikin doo.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Pretty sure Chuck iced Overeem with one punch.

Also pretty sure that testosterone can't do anything for your chin.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

pretty sure you're all delusional


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Yes, I must be delusional for basing an argument around things that already have happened before rather than you and your delusional fanboy fantasies predicated on nothing but your wholehearted ignorance of the sport and combat sports in general.


MWs and LHws. knocking out HWs has happened several times now FYI.

See Manhoef vs Hunt(a fighter renowned for his chin and who had never been knocked out on top of it all) 

See Hendo vs Fedor.

See Gokhan Saki and pretty much everyone he ever fights.


See Mike Kyle vs Bigfoot Silva

See Kevin Randleman vs Mirko Cro Cop.


See Seth Petruzelli vs Kimbo Slice


etc


Oh and that guy in the LHW title eliminator this week, long time ago he knocked out the last contender for the HW title.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

Roflcopter said:


> Pretty sure Chuck iced Overeem with one punch.
> 
> Also pretty sure that testosterone can't do anything for your chin.


Chuck iced everyone with 'one punch'.

And being smaller than Forrest Griffin doesn't make you too small for LHW. Forrest is the second biggest guy to ever compete there after Jones.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

How many of those guys are top 10? Bigfoot... 

Lol at Kimbo Slice, you need a dose of reality you frikin nutjob, wow. Hendo knocked out an old Fedor therefore an old Anderson Silva will knockout a prime JDS, ok then bud, keep drinking that koolaid. hilarious calling me a fanboy, if anyone needs to get off anyone's nuts it's you and your fantasies with Anderson Silva. Some people are so far off the deep end, Anderson Silva is not superman, he can't beat up top 10 heavyweights in the UFC like Carwin, Cain or JDS, that's not reality, that's fantasy.

Anderson won't fight Jon Jones, a LHW with mediocre striking. Yeah he'll go fight the best HW's and knock em out, when did this forum become the Anderson Silva fantasy themepark?


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

And yes, I agree, Anderson could KO anyone at any weight, even HW.

Once these guys get over 200 lbs, it's anyone's game. Could a FW knock out a HW? No, probably not. 

But Anderson would be walking into a HW fight at ~220 lbs, which, combined with his accuracy is more than enough to knock out any human.

Not to mention, he would be running circles around these HWs, tiring them, which makes it easier to KO them.

Anyone can KO Carwin in the second or third round because his mouth is wide open, and he begins experiencing, stroke/heart attack symptoms after about 3 minutes of exercise.


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## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

Roflcopter said:


> Yes, I must be delusional for basing an argument around things that already have happened before rather than you and your delusional fanboy fantasies predicated on nothing but your wholehearted ignorance of the sport and combat sports in general.
> 
> 
> MWs and LHws. knocking out HWs has happened several times now FYI.
> ...


Brandon Vera? Although I agree with most of what you said I can't believe that Vera could do that again to Frank. He was riding a high in his career where as Frank was struggling to get over that motorcycle accident. If they were to fight again I could almost guarantee that Frank would whoop the p*ss out of Vera.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

Wookie said:


> Brandon Vera? Although I agree with most of what you said I can't believe that Vera could do that again to Frank. He was riding a high in his career where as Frank was struggling to get over that motorcycle accident. If they were to fight again I could almost guarantee that Frank would whoop the p*ss out of Vera.


Mir has been dropped in every fight he's been in over the last like 6 years.

His striking defense is horrible. 

Vera cut right through his defenses.

I for one believe if Vera had stayed at HW, his career would have been a lot different. He was a fast, accurate HW. He's too skinny at LHW and it takes away from his performance, and he has no speed advantage at LHW.

He dropped down after losing to Tim Sylvia, which for some reason, he took as a sign he wasn't big enough for HW. Which was absurd. Sylvia was the biggest HW ever and was completely dominant in the UFC HW division for years. 

The disrespect Sylvia gets from other fighters and the fans never ceases to amaze me. The guy was one of the best HWs ever.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

RearNaked said:


> And yes, I agree, Anderson could KO anyone at any weight, even HW.


So now Anderson hits harder than Shane Carwin, wow, impressive


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

rabakill said:


> lol at Anderson knocking out JDS, you have got to be kidding. He took Carwin's shots and wasn't even scratched. Anderson Silva would get murdered at HW by anyone that can strike, JDS would corner him and ask him to quit so he doesn't have to break his face. Overeem would kick him once and he'd crumple into a ball. All due respect to AS, he's a MW. I could see a leg kick from Overeem completely sweeping his legs from underneath him. Anderson's advantage comes from his accuracy being able to knockout guys that don't have huge necks, anyone that can take a Carwin punch and not get knocked out would murder Anderson. Roy Nelson would grab him and pound him on the ground, Struve would just kick him. I could see him beating Pat Barry and that's it. GOAT at MW, he fought Forrest Griffin and a complete bum at LHW, whoopdee frikin doo.


wtf u trollin? ur brain must be broken


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

rabakill said:


> So now Anderson hits harder than Shane Carwin, wow, impressive


No but he's about 1000 times more accurate, in about 1000 times better shape, and has about 1000 times as many weapons.

If Shane Carwin could KO anyone, he would be the champ.

There's more to it than just KO power.

All Carwin has is power. He has the worst conditioning of probably any fighter ever. Including Tank Abbot.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

There are many ways to look at this scenario Silva fighting with his strengths and the size difference: 

1.Any HW willing to strike with Silva is asking for Trouble
2. Any HW wrestler will give Anderson Silva trouble.


So with the right game plan he could lose, however he is talented enough to beat HW if their willing to strike with him. The question then becomes say a HW does take him down, would his Jujitsu be good enough to beat them? 

It's really a toss up, I know size plays a huge factor, however the man is talented enough to beat anybody.

Fedor,Big Nog showed size really does not matter.

JDS not really a big HW has made dudes like Carwin,Nelson,Mir seem like amateurs.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

rabakill said:


> So now Anderson hits harder than Shane Carwin, wow, impressive


Actually, I believe he does. His technique is light years ahead of Carwins.

Cue calling me a bunch of juvenile names...


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> Actually, I believe he does. His technique is light years ahead of Carwins.


Yep, it depends on the definition of "hard". Brute strength isn't everything. How many opponents has Carwin dropped with a *jab* (and that even walking backwards)¿


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

H33LHooK said:


> Anderson is a perfect MMA middlewieght; his body and mind obviously respond about as well as anyone's can to that particular cut, and he enjoys an advantage in speed over most of the other guys in that division.
> 
> I have no idea what he would look like at HW, but I have to suspect he would be slower, *his strikes wouldn't have the same effect,* and he wouldn't be as powerful as the majority of the fighters up there.
> 
> ...


That's an interesting statement. After rewatching his LHW bouts I noticed his shots were twice as powerful and just as accurate. I could hear the thud in his punches. It's almost as if the 20lb weight gain gave him extra power.

I have reason to believe he will be just as effective, of course his speed will go down, but remember this he'll still be faster than all of the HWs. 




marcthegame said:


> There are many ways to look at this scenario Silva fighting with his strengths and the size difference:
> 
> 1.Any HW willing to strike with Silva is asking for Trouble
> 2. Any HW wrestler will give Anderson Silva trouble.
> ...


Yep pretty much what I stated in the beginning of the thread. 



Soojooko said:


> Actually, I believe he does. His technique is light years ahead of Carwins.
> 
> Cue calling me a bunch of juvenile names...


Amen!

With technique comes speed...with speed comes POWER!


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

rabakill said:


> How many of those guys are top 10? Bigfoot...
> 
> Lol at Kimbo Slice, you need a dose of reality you frikin nutjob, wow. Hendo knocked out an old Fedor therefore an old Anderson Silva will knockout a prime JDS, ok then bud, keep drinking that koolaid. hilarious calling me a fanboy, if anyone needs to get off anyone's nuts it's you and your fantasies with Anderson Silva. Some people are so far off the deep end, Anderson Silva is not superman, he can't beat up top 10 heavyweights in the UFC like Carwin, Cain or JDS, that's not reality, that's fantasy.
> 
> Anderson won't fight Jon Jones, a LHW with mediocre striking. Yeah he'll go fight the best HW's and knock em out, when did this forum become the Anderson Silva fantasy themepark?


Yes, because arbitrary ranking systems determine someone's punching resistance.


I'm done posting towards a joke account. Have a good day.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

rabakill said:


> How many of those guys are top 10? Bigfoot...
> 
> Lol at Kimbo Slice, you need a dose of reality you frikin nutjob, wow. Hendo knocked out an old Fedor therefore an old Anderson Silva will knockout a prime JDS, ok then bud, keep drinking that koolaid. hilarious calling me a fanboy, if anyone needs to get off anyone's nuts it's you and your fantasies with Anderson Silva. Some people are so far off the deep end, Anderson Silva is not superman, he can't beat up top 10 heavyweights in the UFC like Carwin, Cain or JDS, that's not reality, that's fantasy.
> 
> Anderson won't fight Jon Jones, a LHW with mediocre striking. Yeah he'll go fight the best HW's and knock em out, when did this forum become the Anderson Silva fantasy themepark?


Lol calm down, they're HWs not gods, its not so crazy to think the most accurate striker to ever step foot in the cage and already has good height and reach even for HWs he would do well

HWs look good against other HWs but the reality is HWs suck, they're the least skilled fighters, its not crazy at all to think some1 with andersons talent would do well against HWs, fedor did a great job and he wasnt big at all, neither was randy or cain for the matter

Would andy beat JDS? Probably not but in a striking match i would never count anderson out, i can see him matrixing JDS. But i wouldnt bet on anderson lol

Stil anderson would probably lose to the likes of cain, JDS, Cormier. But nelson? Carwin? Gonzaga, kongo, struve, mittrione, travis browne, pat barry, bigfoot, werdum, frank mir and big nog....you really think anderson couldnt beat them? Being big doesnt make you good, anderson would still have his footwork and speed advantage even though he would be slower...i dont see whats so impossible about him beating big dudes with good skill but nothing great (aside from werdum, frank and big nogs BJJ)


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Randy was a LHW. He iced one of the most accomplished HWs in Tim Sylvia and dominated him for the rest of the fight.

Dan Henderson has beaten several historically great HWs including Fedor and Nog.


I don't think anyone is shaking in their boots at the likes of Nelson and Carwin.


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## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

I guess what it boils down to for me is: we just have no idea what AS would look like at HW: if his movement would be affected; if his gas tank would be diminished; if his reflexes would be impaired by bulking up. 
Any _one_ of these, if compromised sufficiently, has the potential to render AS ineffective at fighting two weight divisions above where he normally fights.

It's completely reasonable to guess that AS _could_ be a top10 HW based on what he's shown in his career, and on-paper comparisons with HW's, etc; just as it's completely reasonable to guess that he might not be, based on all the what-ifs/unknowns.

Let's not get all bent out of shape over it, though.

.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

He's already fought at LHW.

If you had any ability to think you'd realize that his in-octagon weight for his LHW fight would likely be the same as what he would fight at HW. Probably around 210-220lbs.

Much like King Mo(215) and Dan Henderson(208) when they fought at HW.



So no, he's not going to be a fat out of shape guy with no reflexes or speed.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

One of my favourite pieces from a fighter:-



> Gray Maynard remembers one of the first conversations with his boxing coach, Gil Martinez, almost like it happened yesterday. Unbeaten in three UFC fights following his stint on the fifth season of The Ultimate Fighter, “The Bully” was just that in the Octagon – a hard-charging wrestler who swung for the cheap seats with every punch.
> 
> And since no one was proving otherwise to him, he figured he had come upon a formula that would allow him to sail right to the top of the lightweight division, and he let Martinez know it.
> 
> ...



Technique and timing generate far more power then raw strength. Of course, it helps to have raw strength on top of excellent technique... but Shane Carwin is not that man.


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Top 10? Andy would probably be a top 3 HW. I can see some one likes Cain Velasquez giving him fits, but I can see him pretty much blitzing most other HW's.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

MRBRESK said:


> He would beat the strikers and lose to the grapplers.
> 
> Cormier, Cain, Barnett and any powerful wrestler would beat him.
> 
> ...


Man this. All. Day. Said it perfectly.


----------



## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

Roflcopter said:


> He's already fought at LHW.
> 
> If you had any ability to think you'd realize that his in-octagon weight for his LHW fight would likely be the same as what he would fight at HW. Probably around 210-220lbs.
> 
> ...


Not sure why you're choosing to be so abrasive.

You have no idea what will happen; you're _guessing_ based on your opinions... just like the rest of us.

Go ask AS how he would rank himself at HW. He'd probably just laugh because it's an absurd, hypothetical question, that we can never have an answer to, because it will never happen.

That's the fun of it. Stop pissing on the parade, Debbie Downer.

.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

No. 

The wrestlers up there would take him down and tko him without much effort.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> No.
> 
> The wrestlers up there would take him down and tko him without much effort.


Name them.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Soojooko said:


> One of my favourite pieces from a fighter:-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think Carwin would beat silva with little trouble butnot the way he beats others because he would have to use his wrestling skills. If he come in swinging silva could get out of the way and move around but silva would not be able to avoid getting takendown by this monster.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Soojooko said:


> Name them.


The have already been named throughout the thread Josh Cain etcetera


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> I think Carwin would beat silva with little trouble butnot the way he beats others because he would have to use his wrestling skills. If he come in swinging silva could get out of the way and move around but silva would not be able to avoid getting takendown by this monster.


I completely disagree. The cage is big and Silva is nimble. I think Welder boy would struggle to get his hands on him.

But still, assuming Carwin was any good, who are the others? Because to me, right now, aside from Cain the rest of the UFC HW's are not excellent wrestlers.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

LOL at AS Top 5 HW,After Cormier takes Silva down and beats him unconscious who exactly would rank Silva top 5?


----------



## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

People underestimate Silva's defensive wrestling so much that it is laughable. Chael Sonnen has the best power double in MMA... way better than any HW. He almost never sets it up at all, and it is basically the only thing he has ever needed to use to become the 2nd best MW in the world. It's foolish to just assume that every good wrestler could take Silva down because Sonnen could.

Josh Barnett. Lol.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

H33LHooK said:


> Not sure why you're choosing to be so abrasive.
> 
> You have no idea what will happen; you're _guessing_ based on your opinions... just like the rest of us.
> 
> ...



You mean the same guy who has wanted to fight guys like Lesnar and Frank Mir on separate occasions?

Is there any further ignorance you wish to profoundly display when it comes to MMA?


----------



## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

St.Paul Guy said:


> People underestimate Silva's defensive wrestling so much that it is laughable. Chael Sonnen has the best power double in MMA... way better than any HW. He almost never sets it up at all, and it is basically the only thing he has ever needed to use to become the 2nd best MW in the world. It's foolish to just assume that every good wrestler could take Silva down because Sonnen could.
> 
> Josh Barnett. Lol.


I know exactly how good Silva's TD defense is and how good his guard is and i know that Cain and Cormier are actually developing wrestling at AKA so i'm going to say that Silva won't last a Round with either one.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Cormier isn't a finishing machine. The usual overreaction is quite present.


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Cormier isn't a finishing machine. The usual overreaction is quite present.


He also reacts very poorly to getting hit.


----------



## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

Roflcopter said:


> You mean the same guy who has wanted to fight guys like Lesnar and Frank Mir on separate occasions?
> 
> Is there any further ignorance you wish to profoundly display when it comes to MMA?


First, how did those fights go for AS against those HW's? Oh yeah; they never happened.

Second, just to see if I have this straight- are you seriously suggesting I'm ignorant about things MMA because I disagree with you in a fun thead discussing AS as a Top10 in a weight class he has never, and _will _never, fight in?

Congrats'-- you are officially clownshoes. 

.


----------



## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

St.Paul Guy said:


> People underestimate Silva's defensive wrestling so much that it is laughable. Chael Sonnen has the best power double in MMA... way better than any HW. He almost never sets it up at all, and it is basically the only thing he has ever needed to use to become the 2nd best MW in the world. It's foolish to just assume that every good wrestler could take Silva down because Sonnen could.
> 
> Josh Barnett. Lol.


Yes Chael is a much better wrestler the the HW fighters but the thing is when you have 30 or 40 pounds of pure muscle on the guy it more than makes mup for you lack of skill. For example in their last fight silva stoped one of chael's takedowns by grabbing his shorts. Put Shane carwin are Cain in that position and they would have been able to complete that take down with nothing but brute strength. 

Take the skills of an NCAA all-american like Cain or a D2 champ like Carwin and add the size advantage and it would be too much for silva.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Soojooko said:


> I completely disagree. The cage is big and Silva is nimble. I think Welder boy would struggle to get his hands on him.
> 
> But still, assuming Carwin was any good, who are the others? Because to me, right now, aside from Cain the rest of the UFC HW's are not excellent wrestlers.


Yeah silva is nimble and quick and it may take a few rounds but I carwin could eventually get a hold of him and with the power carwin holds all it would take is once and then it's a hard slam followed by a quick tko.


----------



## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

Bknmax said:


> I know exactly how good Silva's TD defense is and how good his guard is and i know that Cain and Cormier are actually developing wrestling at AKA so i'm going to say that Silva won't last a Round with either one.


Wouldn't last a round with Cormier? There isn't even really a big size difference there. If Cormier wasn't so pudgy he'd outweigh Silva by about 15 pounds and would have a significant size and reach disadvantage. 

Cormier doesn't even very explosive takedowns. He wasn't known as a big takedown guy in wrestling and he isn't now in MMA. 

I guarantee you that if they were to fight Silva would be a 2:1 favorite at least.


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> Yeah silva is nimble and quick and it may take a few rounds but I carwin could eventually get a hold of him and with the power carwin holds all it would take is once and then it's a hard slam followed by a quick tko.



It would take a few rounds? And what do you think is going to be happening during those "few rounds"? I'll tell you what... Carwin is going to get punched in the face very very hard *lots* of times.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

St.Paul Guy said:


> Wouldn't last a round with Cormier? There isn't even really a big size difference there. If Cormier wasn't so pudgy he'd outweigh Silva by about 15 pounds and would have a significant size and reach disadvantage.
> 
> Cormier doesn't even very explosive takedowns. He wasn't known as a big takedown guy in wrestling and he isn't now in MMA.
> 
> I guarantee you that if they were to fight Silva would be a 2:1 favorite at least.


Who said there was size difference Silva at 220 would get beat down even faster by Cormier. You think silva has some godly bjj ? Bigfoot knows how to use his size better then silva and he still got owned so you're telling me Cormier is going to get cought in a triangle or throw a spinning elbow ?


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Shane Carwin lol. The speed difference on display in such a fight would actually be comical.

Carwin vs Anderson Silva actually has the potential to be even more embarrassing than the Forrest Griffin fight.

Carwin would get taken to school in every aspect of Mixed Martial Arts.


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

Bknmax said:


> Who said there was size difference Silva at 220 would get beat down even faster by Cormier. You think silva has some godly bjj ? Bigfoot knows how to use his size better then silva and he still got owned so you're telling me Cormier is going to get cought in a triangle or throw a spinning elbow ?


No I'm telling you he wouldn't get close to getting a takedown before getting punched in the face and falling over.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

H33LHooK said:


> *First, how did those fights go for AS against those HW's? Oh yeah; they never happened.*
> 
> Second, just to see if I have this straight- are you seriously suggesting I'm ignorant about things MMA because I disagree with you in a fun thead discussing AS as a Top10 in a weight class he has never, and _will _never, fight in?
> 
> ...


How to make an ass of yourself on an internet forum.



Step 1: Make a terrible counterpoint that is completely wrong and shows nothing but general lack of knowledge on the subject. IE: Anderson would laugh at the idea of fighting HWs.


Step 2: Be called out on how utterly incorrect said statement is. IE. Anderson has stated he wanted to fight HWs multiple times and the only the UFC and White stopped him.


Step 3: Bring up something entirely irrelevant to the point in a futile effort to save face, resort to name calling.
ie. But Anderson never fought those guys so it means nothing! HERPADERPA


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

H33LHooK said:


> Not sure why you're choosing to be so abrasive.


This is just what American culture is now. Screaming at people and calling them retards if you disagree with them. Don't blame him, blame the American school system. 

Rolfcolpter isn't a bad guy, he has a solid knowledge base and his opinions aren't crazy or anything. 

He just doesn't know how to talk to people, which is more of a shame for him than for the rest of us, really.

Imagine going through life like that...


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

St.Paul Guy said:


> No I'm telling you he wouldn't get close to getting a takedown before getting punched in the face and falling over.


lol classic, you're basing this on what his Forrest performance or how Chael took him down easily in both fights.All talk now SPG but when it comes down to common sense i would put my money on Cain wiping the floor with AS.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

RearNaked said:


> This is just what American culture is now. Screaming at people and calling them retards if you disagree with them. Don't blame him, blame the American school system.
> 
> Rolfcolpter isn't a bad guy, he has a solid knowledge base and his opinions aren't crazy or anything.
> 
> ...


Yes, because I've clearly called people retards in this topic...or any other topic for that matter.

I must do it all the time except I don't.


Maybe the American school system would have benefited you and given you the ability to properly read letters.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

RearNaked said:


> This is just what American culture is now. Screaming at people and calling them retards if you disagree with them. Don't blame him, blame the American school system.
> 
> Rolfcolpter isn't a bad guy, he has a solid knowledge base and his opinions aren't crazy or anything.
> 
> ...


Talk about a classy comment. You don't just insult Rolf you go after every american.



Soojooko said:


> It would take a few rounds? And what do you think is going to be happening during those "few rounds"? I'll tell you what... Carwin is going to get punched in the face very very hard *lots* of times.


But I doubt silva has the power to ko cariwn. I mean hell if JDS couldn't do it. 

The thing is people are looking at cawing for what they see in the highlight reel KOs however i am looking at what he could be. If he comes in fighting like he normally does then yeah silva will dance around make him look silly. However I am looking at him as a giant NCAA national champion wrestler. I think if he spends a training camp with a focus on wrestling and take downs he could take down silva and finish him. 

It would be a different Carwin than we are use to seeing relying on wrestling footwork and power takedowns as opposed to wild power punches to end the fight in dramatic quick ko fashion.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

lol No. Not too many guys in that division he could even put up a fight against. Mike Russow would probably even beat him.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

americanfighter said:


> Talk about a classy comment. You don't just insult Rolf you go after every american.


That's fair. I just meant, he personifies what is worst about modern American culture. Sorry if it came out wrong.

Plenty of Americans are fine people, despite the horrors of the American school system which relies more on hurr durr patriotic rhetoric over critical thinking skills. 

He's the Bill O'Reilly of this place. All he does is call people names if they don't agree with him. 

Check his post history. 

Which is a shame, because if he could cut that shit out, he would have quite a bit to contribute. But instead he just talks shit constantly.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> But I doubt silva has the power to ko cariwn. I mean hell if JDS couldn't do it.
> 
> The thing is people are looking at cawing for what they see in the highlight reel KOs however i am looking at what he could be. If he comes in fighting like he normally does then yeah silva will dance around make him look silly. However I am looking at him as a giant NCAA national champion wrestler. I think if he spends a training camp with a focus on wrestling and take downs he could take down silva and finish him.
> 
> It would be a different Carwin than we are use to seeing relying on wrestling footwork and power takedowns as opposed to wild power punches to end the fight in dramatic quick ko fashion.


Ok. So we agree. The existing Shane Carwin most likely doesn't have the tools to beat Silva. However he has the "potential" to beat him? I can agree. Everybody has the "potential" to do amazing things. Unfortunately Carwin is 37 and fought the same fight for years. He's not going to improve as you suggest.

I'm honestly not trying to troll you. I really do believe that Silva is capable of taking out all UFC HWs aside from JDS and Cain( not impossible though ). Cormier would also cause him big problems. It's not that I consider Silva that amazing ( although I do love him ). Just that I consider the HW division seriously lacking in skills and speed.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

RearNaked said:


> That's fair. I just meant, he personifies what is worst about modern American culture. Sorry if it came out wrong.
> 
> Plenty of Americans are fine people, despite the horrors of the American school system which relies more on hurr durr patriotic rhetoric over critical thinking skills.
> 
> ...


And 87 post count, irrelevant poster talking about my contributions to the forum.

:laugh:


Made my day.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Soojooko said:


> Ok. So we agree. The existing Shane Carwin most likely doesn't have the tools to beat Silva. However he has the "potential" to beat him? I can agree. Everybody has the "potential" to do amazing things. Unfortunately Carwin is 37 and fought the same fight for years. He's not going to improve as you suggest.
> 
> I'm honestly not trying to troll you. I really do believe that Silva is capable of taking out all UFC HWs aside from JDS and Cain( not impossible though ). Cormier would also cause him big problems. It's not that I consider Silva that amazing ( although I do love him ). Just that I consider the HW division seriously lacking in skills and speed.


Yeah I belive he has the skill set and the ability to beat silva if he fights the right way (wrestling takedown ground and pound use his size to over power silva) but he can't go in swinging wildly. 

I think he could improve because I think that he has the wrestling skill inside and a good wresting came could bring those back out. Although it would look radically different the ability to fight that way wouldn't be too far out of his reach because of his past.

I never though you were trolling by the way


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

UFC86 said:


> I was wondering if Anderson Silva would be top 10 if he moved to heavyweight. I think it is realistic if he was to leave MW, but his manager says he may not be interested in that.
> 
> There was a proposed fight between him and Frank Mir, but Dana White says he first needs to fight at 205.
> 
> Would Anderson Silva be able to do it if he were to move up? reminder that Dan Henderson who Anderson beat at middleweight was able to beat Fedor and Noguiera who were top 10 at heavyweight


I've thought about this and I could argue both sides. He could easily get up to 225lbs and that's pretty close to some of the lighter HWs, but I don't think he could hang with top 10 HWs - he'd wind up on his back and would get overpowered with big boy GNP.


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## UFC86 (May 21, 2010)

So from what I've read most posters say he could beat some of the top 10's but not the likes of JDS, Cain and Carwin.

I wish Anderson would actually go to 205 and HW, other then GSP he doesnt have any business IMO in the lower weightclasses.
I think he should go to 205 and fight the likes of Jones, Shogun, Rashad etc. even if he loses I dont think it would diminish from his legendary career. He is also getting there in age, so I think he has to go up before hanging up.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

Roflcopter said:


> And 87 post count, irrelevant poster talking about my contributions to the forum.
> 
> :laugh:
> 
> ...


Yeah, this post in no way confirms exactly what I said about you at all...


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Correct.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

americanfighter said:


> But I doubt silva has the power to ko cariwn. I mean hell if JDS couldn't do it.


Indeed, Dos Santos couldn't, but his punches are different to Silva's to KO his opponents. Dos Santos uses first multiple hard punches to pick his opponents apart and then finishes them with a couple of powerpunches. So he uses only his own power to KO his opponents. The beauty of Silva's striking on the other hand is that he is own of the rare fighters who actually is able to apply the martial arts principal of _"using the opponents force against him"_. Do you really think that Silva's body strength is enough to knock his opponents down with a *jab* (i.e. Griffin, Okami), without any other variables in his striking equation¿ Silva doesn't punch like Dos Santos to inflict damage only with his own power (well, often he does also that, but not in those jab cases). He times the situation so well that _he puts his forwards flying fist in the way of his opponents head which itself has forward momentum_, because the opponent is just about to engage himself. That puts the power of Silva's jab in the equation (which isn't that much) PLUS the impulse of the opponent moving forward (mass * speed of the opponent). And as he times it so well that the opponent doesn't see the punch coming, it's like running blindly face first into a brick wall.



> The thing is people are looking at cawing for what they see in the highlight reel KOs however i am looking at what he could be. If he comes in fighting like he normally does then yeah silva will dance around make him look silly. However I am looking at him as a giant NCAA national champion wrestler. I think if he spends a training camp with a focus on wrestling and take downs he could take down silva and finish him.
> 
> It would be a different Carwin than we are use to seeing relying on wrestling footwork and power takedowns as opposed to wild power punches to end the fight in dramatic quick ko fashion.


As I wrote earlier, I agree that IF a HW wrestler takes Silva down, it will pose quite some trouble for Silva, but I think most of the HWs are to slow with their take down attempts (except Velasquez). Carwin may have been a good collegiate wrestler, but he didn't really translate it into his MMA game like Sonnen. And the difference is, in collegiate wrestling you have two guys who engage forwards into wrestling to put the other guy on his back, in particular in HW you have not many opportunities to train against opponents who don't engage but run away. So I guess it will be really hard for Carwin to make an improvement in this area.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

I know some of you love mma, and claim to know a lot about wrestling but the fact is Shane Carwin would murder Anderson via gnp. Carwin is 265 pounds, he would grab Anderson and drag him down via Fitch hugging. The idea that Anderson could survive Carwin taking him down is beyond delusional, it's insane. Carwin is not a contender anymore no, yes his gameplan is predictable but there's nothing a 220 pound Anderson can do against a 265 pound wrestler that takes horse steroids hanging on to him and dragging him down, nothing. It's been proven more than once that you can survive against Anderson if you don't stand in front of him and drive through him.

Technique doesn't overcome the most significant strength differential possible. Nobody has more brute strength than Carwin and Andy could not get out of being held on to via technique. The arguments you guys are making are fairytale fantasyland, even more comical is you are insulting me for not going along with it. Anderson's mystique has clearly taken you all beyond the realm of logic, yeah Andy could win against some of the HW's that are strikers, lots of them, but none of the top 5. Just look at what happened to guys like Fedor or Randy who so completely outclassed their larger opponents in guys like Bigfoot and Lesnar respectively yet still got beaten by being mauled by physically superior opponents. Anderson's striking looks fantastic against guys who stand flatfooted in front of him, not so much against high level wrestlers with 40 pounds on him. This is all considering Anderson is clearly the best mma fighter and all around striker ever, that doesn't help him stop takedown from guys way bigger than him.

The difference in striking ability between Carwin (average) and Anderson (elite) is comparable to the difference between Randy (slightly more than average) and Lesnar (abysmal), same goes for Fedor and Bigfoot


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Styles make fights, you'll always have the people who think they know what would happen but you never do really. I mean stepping up a WC could/would change his attributes, handspeed, accuracy, cardio etc. To speak in absolutes would just mean you make alot of assumptions. 

I don't think he would be as dominant though.


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

rabakill said:


> I know some of you love mma, and claim to know a lot about wrestling but the fact is Shane Carwin would murder Anderson via gnp. Carwin is 265 pounds, he would grab Anderson and drag him down via Fitch hugging. The idea that Anderson could survive Carwin taking him down is beyond delusional, it's insane. Carwin is not a contender anymore no, yes his gameplan is predictable but there's nothing a 220 pound Anderson can do against a 265 pound wrestler that takes horse steroids hanging on to him and dragging him down, nothing. It's been proven more than once that you can survive against Anderson if you don't stand in front of him and drive through him.
> 
> Technique doesn't overcome the most significant strength differential possible. Nobody has more brute strength than Carwin and Andy could not get out of being held on to via technique. The arguments you guys are making are fairytale fantasyland, even more comical is you are insulting me for not going along with it. Anderson's mystique has clearly taken you all beyond the realm of logic, yeah Andy could win against some of the HW's that are strikers, lots of them, but none of the top 5. Just look at what happened to guys like Fedor or Randy who so completely outclassed their larger opponents in guys like Bigfoot and Lesnar respectively yet still got beaten by being mauled by physically superior opponents. Anderson's striking looks fantastic against guys who stand flatfooted in front of him, not so much against high level wrestlers with 40 pounds on him. This is all considering Anderson is clearly the best mma fighter and all around striker ever, that doesn't help him stop takedown from guys way bigger than him.
> 
> The difference in striking ability between Carwin (average) and Anderson (elite) is comparable to the difference between Randy (slightly more than average) and Lesnar (abysmal), same goes for Fedor and Bigfoot


Question, I get what your saying and it does make sense, however don't you think with Silva's significant speed advantage wouldn't it be difficult for Carwin? If Silva runs/moves around how does Carwin approach it?


----------



## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

marcthegame said:


> Question, I get what your saying and it does make sense, however don't you think with Silva's significant speed advantage wouldn't it be difficult for Carwin? If Silva runs/moves around how does Carwin approach it?


All he does is head down charge until he grabs one arm or a leg. There's no way Anderson could avoid being touched for 5 minutes straight, Anderson has fast hands and extremely fast head movement. His lateral movement isn't enough to avoid getting grabbed though. 

This is bearing in mind of course that Anderson is the greatest of all time and he deserves all the respect in the world even if he can be a little too cocky sometimes, if a plodding guy like Fitch can hug people to victory Anderson would be screwed against the strongest guy in the UFC. Against guys like Struve, Barry or Kongo Anderson would probably annihilate them because he could counter their mediocre striking so easily. Against the wrestlers or JDS the gap is too much, hell I'd even give him a chance against Overeem because he uses that head up plodding style that Anderson does so well against. Fact is we all know Anderson's weakness is getting taken down by wrestlers and people are arguing he'd beat the strongest one in the UFC. Anderson vs. Jones, now that would be a fight worth watching.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

rabakill said:


> I know some of you love mma, and claim to know a lot about wrestling but the fact is Shane Carwin would murder Anderson via gnp.


Nope.

We'll never know. 

But I think Silva KOs him in the first with one shot while walking backwards. Carwin is just too slow and while he would have 40+ lbs on Silva, he'd just never get his hands on Silva. 

But like I said, we'll never know, because now Silva's threatening to move DOWN in weight (lolwut) instead of up like every dominant fighter in history has done after clearing our their division. 

I don't think Anderson will actually move down, I don't think he can make 170 anymore. He'll probably just stay at MW and keep crushing everyone with ease.

And if Cawin 'head down charges' he eats an uppercut and gets KOd even faster.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Anderson can knock out guys that plod forward with their chins up (Okami, Leben, Belfort, Griffin) he can not knock out wrestlers that charge with their heads down. He never has, he never will, he is not an uppercut master. 

He is the master of straight punches, people with their heads down and their hands up don't get knocked out by straight punches, helps to you know, know anything about fighting. Anderson Silva is the most accurate straight puncher around, that's why he can knock out people like Griffin with a light jab while stepping back. You square up to Anderson you are screwed, you charge at him head down he has to either clinch or get away.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

I've never facepalmed so many times reading a thread.

Anderson would get his shit pushed in by most.


He'd lose power and speed(he's already not even that fast) and wouldn't be anywhere close to being as strong as the natural HWs.

JDS would destroy him on the feet and Barnett would have his way with him on the ground. same with Carwin.


This is almost as bad as the time BobbyCooper said GSP could beat Jones(this was before he turned into a complete troll)

end rant.


----------



## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

We all agree that Anderson is better than Shogun on the feet right? They have different body types so size difference is hard to tell. 

I think he would beat Mark Hunt, Cheick Kongo, JDS, Carwin or any other HW that decided to strike with him or couldn't get him down. I don't think any of those guys are faster than Vitor, and Vitor couldn't land anything on him.

Here is a vid of Anderson sparring Big Nog, he can hold his own in there with a 240lb guy.


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## Frankske (Aug 6, 2012)

Reading stuff like "he'd destroy Struve" surprise me. There is a tremendous difference of power behind moves at MW and HW. Silva has great kicks, but trust me when i say the guys Struve is used to getting kicked by have vastly more weight & muscle behind every move than Silva's body would ever allow him to produce. And trust me when i say Silva's NEVER been kicked as hard as Struve can - not in training, and definately not in the ring. Not to mention some of the most powerfull weapons of Silva, headkicks... well, he's not gonna reach, is he? While Struve barely needs to lift his leg to reach Silva's head. 
And if it goes to the ground, the same thing applies - Silva has the better technique, but Struve's game is at a high enough level that the gap in raw strenght would allow him to power out of anything Silva could throw at him, and we've all seen Struve submit heavyweights, recently breaking an arm like a twig. I'm confident his technique is at a high enough level that if he can lock on a submission he can finish it through raw strenght, despite Silva's superior technique. Struve isn't a 1990's striker who'se never seen a submission before.
People have been wishing Silva to step up to LIGHT heavyweight for a long time now, particularely now in the Jones era, but he's too smart to do that. He KNOWS the bigger his opponent, the less likely his superior technique compared to anyone on the planet will enable him to dominate the contest, especially in today's MMA game where anyone at top level knows how to defend against the techniques that would have allowed Silva to contest at heavyweight 20 years ago. Any succesfull technique is a combination of strenght and technique. To put random numbers on it: at middleweight silva's technique is at 140while the second best is at 100, and silva's physical prowness is at 80 while the best is at 100. At light HW those numbers shift to 140/100 vs 65/100, at HW to 140/100 vs 50/100.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Frankske said:


> Reading stuff like "he'd destroy Struve" surprise me. There is a tremendous difference of power behind moves at MW and HW. Silva has great kicks, but trust me when i say the guys Struve is used to getting kicked by have vastly more weight & muscle behind every move than Silva's body would ever allow him to produce. And trust me when i say Silva's NEVER been kicked as hard as Struve can - not in training, and definately not in the ring. Not to mention some of the most powerfull weapons of Silva, headkicks... well, he's not gonna reach, is he? While Struve barely needs to lift his leg to reach Silva's head.
> And if it goes to the ground, the same thing applies - Silva has the better technique, but Struve's game is at a high enough level that the gap in raw strenght would allow him to power out of anything Silva could throw at him, and we've all seen Struve submit heavyweights, recently breaking an arm like a twig. I'm confident his technique is at a high enough level that if he can lock on a submission he can finish it through raw strenght, despite Silva's superior technique. Struve isn't a 1990's striker who'se never seen a submission before.


Struve.. the same guy that used his reach magnificently against the appropriately sized HW Roy Nelson wouldn't get KOed by Anderson?......... oh yeah, tell me more about the wings on the warthog.


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

Anderson is taller, has longer reach, and is way more skilled in virtually every area than Roy Nelson. Roy Nelson is in the 5-10 range at HW. Do the math. HW is a terribly shallow division.


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## lights out 24 (Jul 23, 2012)

Omg.... I'm just dumbfounded by the internet warriors. Jds threw everything at Carwin & couldn't jp him. Do you remember what Carwin did to mir in the clinch? That's what would happen! You guys act like this is a game of street fighter on xbox or something. Anderson is the most mesmerizing striker there is, he's the GOAT! if it was a boxing match & its 12rds then he may have a chance to dance & stay away but this is mma & only so much room in the cage. Journeyman okami got Silva in the clinch & Carwin would eventually get him & the first time he did he would hurt Anderson. BADLY! 

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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

This is quite possibly THE craziest thread I've seen on here, not just the OP but some of the replies are truly AMAZING.


To even suggest that Anderson silva could last more than a round, never mind beat Shane Carwin is ludicrous. Other than a flash KO, which by the way, even JDS couldn't couldn't manage is beyond crazy.

Shane Carwin would drag Anderson to the ground and literally KILL him down there. That's if he didn't knock him out on the feet first.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

As noted Carwin took JDS to a decision so I doubt AS is going to ko Carwin. If Sonnen can rock Anderson IMO odds are Shane could hurt him too and probibly a lot worse. I don't see Anderson being able to survive if that happened.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

If Anderson was fighting Shane I would bet on anderson. I don't think it is even close to crazy to think Anderson could knock Carwin out. Anderson is a big dude, and could easily come in at 205-210. The amount of skill and technique that Anderson has on Carwin is astounding. Carwin truly is an amatuer striker compared to Anderson. I give Carwin better than a punchers chance do to the size, but it's all about wrestling here. Carwin can get him down the it's gonna be bad for Andy. But if Carwin strikes for even a bit I think it is lights out.

I mean if Manhoef can KO Hunt...


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Carwin's an engineer, not an idiot. He'd stand with Andy for all of zero seconds


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Unless he eats Anderson Silva's foot to the face before he even gets close.


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## lights out 24 (Jul 23, 2012)

I really do think some of you live vicariously through your heroes in some fantasy land. If Anderson fought Roy Nelson it would look like the Kimbo fight. Roy would pin him down & smash him. If it was against Carwin he would get clinched up against the cage & ko'd in 3 or 4 punches like Mir was. Silva would lose to bones the same way Machida did. I think he could beat kongo etc. but not the elite like Cain, Carwin, AO, JDS, or Mir. Smh at some of you because some of your opinions have no intelligence behind them. 

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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Why all the hate? I'm just saying that it is possible Anderson Silva could win. It is also possible the size of these guys would be too much and he would get taken down and smashed.

The thing I don't see some of you guys acknowledging is that you don't need to be 250 lbs to knock someone that big out. Weighing more does not make your chin better, it makes you hit harder. Anderson Silva not only hits hard but with amazing accuracy. To completely count him out because of 50lbs of muscle, or in Nelsons case fat, is pretty silly.

I'd still like to believe that to a degree skill > size. Again not saying he would win, just that he could, and against Nelson or Carwin I would bet on Silva.


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## lights out 24 (Jul 23, 2012)

If you truly believe that in your heart then I respect that opinion but I would love to take your bet if it actually happened. 

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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

lights out 24 said:


> I really do think some of you live vicariously through your heroes in some fantasy land. *If Anderson fought Roy Nelson it would look like the Kimbo fight. Roy would pin him down & smash him.* If it was against Carwin he would get clinched up against the cage & ko'd in 3 or 4 punches like Mir was. Silva would lose to bones the same way Machida did. I think he could beat kongo etc. but not the elite like Cain, Carwin, AO, JDS, or Mir. Smh at some of you because some of your opinions have no intelligence behind them.
> 
> Sent from my USCCADR3305 using VerticalSports.Com App


:laugh:

Literally the only difference in size is the fact that Roy is fat as hell. If this were true everyone would put on as much weight as possible because then you can just magically get takedowns and pound out fighters that are the same size, but without the belly.

Chael Sonnen didn't have the top control to pound out Silva. Chael is stronger and a much better wrestler than Roy. This is completely insane.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

St.Paul Guy said:


> :laugh:
> 
> Literally the only difference in size is the fact that Roy is fat as hell. If this were true everyone would put on as much weight as possible because then you can just magically get takedowns and pound out fighters that are the same size, but without the belly.
> 
> Chael Sonnen didn't have the top control to pound out Silva. Chael is stronger and a much better wrestler than Roy. This is completely insane.


there is that one thing... the umm.. oh yeah black belt that Renzo Gracie gave him. Just stop with this insane fairytale nonsense, literally the only difference is every single aspect of their skillset. Roy Nelson is a talented martial artist, go ahead and hate on him for having a gut I guess. So much ignorance spewing around in one thread.


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## lights out 24 (Jul 23, 2012)

You really don't think Roy couldn't take Anderson down once he got his hands on him? Seriously!? Do you not realize how strong he is? do you really think Roy wouldn't flatten him like Kimbo? Roy is strong, durable, & talented. Once he got him down & he would its all over. He would lay on him & smash him. 205 & down Anderson is king but he would get mauled by the big boys.

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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

lights out 24 said:


> You really don't think Roy couldn't take Anderson down once he got his hands on him? Seriously!? Do you not realize how strong he is? do you really think Roy wouldn't flatten him like Kimbo? Roy is strong, durable, & talented. Once he got him down & he would its all over. He would lay on him & smash him. 205 & down Anderson is king but he would get mauled by the big boys.
> 
> Sent from my USCCADR3305 using VerticalSports.Com App


Please. As I said *Anderson is actually bigger than Roy*. Roy is just fat. He isn't a good wrestler. He doesn't have good takedowns, and he has poor cardio. If they let Roy fight at 185 I don't think he'd crack the top 5.


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## lights out 24 (Jul 23, 2012)

Looked just fine when he took everything jds threw at him & he kept coming in swinging. 

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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

lights out 24 said:


> Looked just fine when he took everything jds threw at him & he kept coming in swinging.
> 
> Sent from my USCCADR3305 using VerticalSports.Com App


No, he looked awful. The fight was a complete mismatch.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Roy isn't just fat, there's some serious muscle underneath that belly.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

He would be top 10. He would beat 5 or 6 of the top 10 HWs.

Put it this way. I have no doubt in my mind he would tool Big Nog if they went hard in training. Yet, Nog absolutely handled Frank Mir who is like top 7 HW for a whole fight until he tried to get too cute by subbing him. He dominated Mir up until then. And I think Anderson would dominate Big Nog. 

He would beat at least half of the top 10 HWs. He would come in at about 230 and only be giving most of these guys 15-30lbs.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Dominating Mir is not shocking, Andy could beat Mir. I would expect him to anyway. 

I didnt say Carwin is a better striker, I meant I wouldn't be surprised if he dropped Anderson.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Ape City said:


> If Anderson was fighting Shane I would bet on anderson. I don't think it is even close to crazy to think Anderson could knock Carwin out. Anderson is a big dude, and could easily come in at 205-210. The amount of skill and technique that Anderson has on Carwin is astounding. Carwin truly is an amatuer striker compared to Anderson. I give Carwin better than a punchers chance do to the size, but it's all about wrestling here. Carwin can get him down the it's gonna be bad for Andy. But if Carwin strikes for even a bit I think it is lights out.
> 
> *I mean if Manhoef can KO Hunt*...


Anderson could only dream of having the power that Manhoef has. he is the Mike Tyson of MMA/K-1






You would see Anderson shooting for doubles if he fought Manheof barring a hail mary punch like Robbie but even then, Anderson doesn't hit as hard as Lawler.


Oh and i love how everyone is raving on about Anderson being able to use his speed and foot work to avoid getting taken down but when the question of a pro boxer fighting an MMA fighter is brought up everyone immediately says "oh well an MMA fighter would just take him down" despite the fact that Boxers have much better footwork and are faster then MMA fighters.









For the record i think that an MMA fighter would take a boxer down and have his way with him(most of the time) but i guess that some people must think there is some sort of magical MMA style footwork that only Anderson knows.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

I can't argue there, Manhoef is probably the hardest striker in mma for his size.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Melvin can KO anyone in the world if he connects.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

We are still talking about Anderson Silva, that guy who is leading the knock down statistics in the UFC, aren't we¿

And in all my statements I'm assuming, we're not talking about a 185 lbs Silva fighting the HWs, but a Silva who put on some mass/muscle to be about or a little under Dos Santos weight, so his strikes also gain a little power.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Voiceless said:


> We are still talking about Anderson Silva, that guy who is leading the knock down statistics in the UFC, aren't we¿
> 
> And in all my statements I'm assuming, we're not talking about a 185 lbs Silva fighting the HWs, but a Silva who put on some mass/muscle to be about or a little under Dos Santos weight, so his strikes also gain a little power.


I was assuming people were talking about Anderson Silva 'as is' fighting a HW.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

I've been talking about an Anderson weighing between 220 and 230. Hendo even took out Fedor at 206.

And obviously if Carwin took Andy down then he'd be in trouble but really Carwin hasn't demonstrated good MMA wrestling at all. 
Cain would take Andy down and beat him to a pulp.

JDS' gameplan would be to stand, you guys all think he'd smash Anderson in a stand up war but I highly doubt that would happen. JDS is similar size to Big Nog.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

MRBRESK said:


> And obviously if Carwin took Andy down then he'd be in trouble but really Carwin hasn't demonstrated good MMA wrestling at all.
> Cain would take Andy down and beat him to a pulp.


Exactly. The tone of some people in this thread, essentially calling anybody who believes Silva can beat Carwin delusional. As if the idea is madness.

It's one thing talking about Cain. But Carwin? Come on now. Based on what exactly? When has Carwin ever shown us a decent dynamic takedown? Or decent footwork? Ive seen nothing to believe that Silva couldn't avoid Carwin for 25 minutes if necessary.

Go ahead. Call me insane. But Ive been watching this sport long enough to know that size is not everything.


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## lights out 24 (Jul 23, 2012)

He wouldn't have to take him down. All he would have to do is get him to the cage & clinch. That's where the power comes in. he would physically manhandle him. Do you people not remember how bad he knocked out mir with just a few punches in the clinch? He only has to touch Anderson a few times.

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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

lights out 24 said:


> He wouldn't have to take him down. All he would have to do is get him to the cage & clinch. That's where the power comes in. he would physically manhandle him. Do you people not remember how bad he knocked out mir with just a few punches in the clinch? He only has to touch Anderson a few times.
> 
> Sent from my USCCADR3305 using VerticalSports.Com App


We are talking about Anderson Silva here and you bring up Mir to try and make a point. How are the two men even remotely comparable? Do you really think a 220 pound Anderson would be a plodding potato sack like Mir?

Somehow, I don't think so.

Shane Carwin indeed... :laugh:


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