# Shane Carwin Predicts Brock Lesnar Knockout at UFC 116



## H-Deep (Feb 3, 2009)




----------



## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

Didn't Gabriel Gonzaga knock him on his azz?
I don't know who will win, I can't predict the future like some of you, but I expect Lesnar to take the fight to the mat. If he does... it will be awfully hard to knock Brock out from his back.


----------



## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Majortom505 said:


> Didn't Gabriel Gonzaga knock him on his azz?
> I don't know who will win, I can't predict the future like some of you, but I expect Lesnar to take the fight to the mat. If he does... it will be awfully hard to knock Brock out from his back.


You obviously think Brock is this unstoppable god that all he has to do is will it to go to the ground and it will be so... 

It will be interesting to see if it goes to the later rounds but I think it will be an early KO or TKO for one of these guys. I don't think these guys really have to Cardio that makes and entertaining fight in the later rounds because they have so much muscle. They will both gass if it goes into the championship rounds. Then it is just whoever lands a really hard punch wins.


----------



## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

The505Butcher said:


> You obviously think Brock is this unstoppable god that all he has to do is will it to go to the ground and it will be so...
> 
> It will be interesting to see if it goes to the later rounds but I think it will be an early KO or TKO for one of these guys. I don't think these guys really have to Cardio that makes and entertaining fight in the later rounds because they have so much muscle. They will both gass if it goes into the championship rounds. Then it is just whoever lands a really hard punch wins.


I think Brock is a God because I said I expect him to take it to the ground? I didn't know that.


----------



## EastonAssassin (Nov 5, 2009)

i don't know what i can't wait to see more: Brock whooping up on this dude convincingly or the excuses everyone is going to make after he does it. i think i might have to make a poll of which excuse is going to be used more.:wink01:


----------



## Redrum (Jan 30, 2008)

I have no idea which way this fight is going to go, BUT I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE IT!


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Can't wait to see Carwin rattle Brock's skull


----------



## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Majortom505 said:


> I think Brock is a God because I said I expect him to take it to the ground? I didn't know that.


Eh... good point. I am just a little stressed right now and might have lashed out at you.

I do disagree with you though and think it will stay standing for a while. Where I think Carwin has the advantage by a lot.


----------



## enceledus (Jul 8, 2007)

let's hope so. I would love to see Lesnar face down.


----------



## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

Shane Carwin can predict anything he'd like, but a prediction is one thing, and actually following up on it is another.

Look, I'm not Lesnar 'nut-hugger' as everyone would say, but I just don't believe Carwin has the resume, the technique, or the speed to beat Brock, period.


----------



## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

I'm actually not that impressed with either guys striking. Carwin however has good striking in the clinch and has shown more power in his hands than Lesnar. Although, I think it's safe to say that he won't bully Lesnar in the clinch.

Let's review Carwins fights in the UFC. He fights Wellisch first and actually gets tagged a few times in the opening seconds, but that is ignored considering he finished Wellisch in under a minute. I think it's understandable why someone would ignore that especially since that was 2 years ago as well. He has probably improved a lot since then.

In his next fight, he goes against Wain. It's another quick win, although Wain did get the better of him in the stand up so Carwin had to take it to the ground. Once again, that was in 2008 and Carwin tried to fix his holes that even he pointed out to my knowledge.

Next he fights Gonzaga, I'm sure most of us remember that fight. Gonzaga actually rocks Carwin and takes him down. Carwin shows his wrestling by getting back to his feet and then proceeds on showing his power by knocking out an over confident Gonzaga. I think most of us can agree that Gonzaga got too comfortable after hurting Carwin and made the mistake of forgetting about Carwins heavy hands.

Then Carwin fights Mir and avoided exchanging with him. Instead, he goes right into the clinch where he was obviously superior. It was a good game plan considering Mir had nothing for him in the clinch.

Anyways, I'm not saying Carwin won't have an advantage in the stand up. I still think that he has more power in his hands than Lesnar and that Lesnar should probably avoid standing with him. I just also think that Carwin has poor defense and is only dangerous standing because of his power. 

Of course that's just my opinion.


----------



## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

UrbanBounca said:


> Shane Carwin can predict anything he'd like, but a prediction is one thing, and actually following up on it is another.
> 
> Look, I'm not Lesnar 'nut-hugger' as everyone would say, but I just don't believe Carwin has the resume, the technique, or the speed to beat Brock, period.


Carwin has never lost, all of his fights have not gone past the first round...Carwin solidified himself as a threat to Lesnar after he whooped Super-Mir's ass worse than Lesnar did regular-Mir. Don't write him off man, the guy is no joke.

I'm pulling for Lesnar, but to be quite honest, I don't really like either of these guys. I would love to see JDS or Cain get a shot at the gold, but that wont be for some time. Hopefully we see the winner of Lesnar v Carwin against Cain for the title around November


----------



## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

ptw said:


> Carwin has never lost, all of his fights have not gone past the first round...Carwin solidified himself as a threat to Lesnar after he whooped Super-Mir's ass worse than Lesnar did regular-Mir. Don't write him off man, the guy is no joke.
> 
> I'm pulling for Lesnar, but to be quite honest, I don't really like either of these guys. I would love to see JDS or Cain get a shot at the gold, but that wont be for some time. Hopefully we see the winner of Lesnar v Carwin against Cain for the title around November


I'm not writing him off, I'm giving him a puncher's chance. :thumb02:


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Carwin will knock Brock out.

Carwin is a big guy with some solid wrestling. He's not as good of a wrestler as Brock, and he's not AS big, but he's still a big dude with a solid wrestling background, the difference is he has the power to put Brock away with 1 punch, and I see him doing just that.

I can see him using his wrestling to avoid the TD long enough to put Brock away.

However, this is a tough fight to call, cause if Brock does get him down, he could very well TKO him, or just win via decison by keeping him on his back.

Tough fight to call, but when I play this fight in my mind, it normally ends in Brock getting clipped and put away.


----------



## ianj98 (Jun 14, 2010)

Crap this is such a hard fight to call.


----------



## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

You never know, Carwin is susceptible to being hit, and it isn't like Brock has small fists, you might see Shane get a taste of his own medicine.


----------



## asdf122345 (Apr 15, 2006)

He may be right. Carwin by Knockout in Round 1...


----------



## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

I say either Carwin KO by round 1 or a Lesnar TKO by round 3. Hopefully a Lesnar TKO by round 3, but Carwin is no joke and neither is Cain or JDS for that matter, so the winner has a handful either way.


----------



## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

This is what a lot of Brock haters want to see.

Logically speaking, Brock is going to avoid his opponent's strength. 



Michael Carson said:


> Carwin will knock Brock out.
> 
> Tough fight to call, but when I play this fight in my mind, it normally ends in Brock getting clipped and put away.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Of course he'll try to avoid his opponent's strengths, who doesn't except Fedor?

Trying to avoid them and actually avoiding them are two different things.


----------



## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Has Lesnars chin been tested yet?


----------



## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

Killstarz said:


> Has Lesnars chin been tested yet?


Not really. Well, I suppose Mir got him with a couple of good shots during their 2nd fight, but aside from that no. That said, don't matter how good your chin is, if Carwin hits somebody full force on the chin then it's over, baby. 

I would have picked Brock had he not had the layoff AND illness, but i'ma have to go with Carwin.


----------



## NikosCC (May 16, 2007)

Lesnar is not stupid.. hes going for the Takedown and smashing him with hammer fists.. But if he can't get this fight down Carwin will win by Spectacular KO..


----------



## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

If Brock follows up with what he has been saying, which I believe he will, he will stand with Carwin at the very beginning to see how things go. Brock's ego is bigger than any MMA fighter out there, I'm quite convinced by that. When Shane comes out and says that Brock had better not stand with him, you can tell that pisses Brock off because he believes he can stand with anyone.

He knows he has great wrestling, I suspect he will stand and trade a bit with Carwin until they clinch or he gets rocked. At any point in the fight where he feels uncomfortable, he's just going to take Carwin down, I really do believe it will be that simple.

The danger in this is that we've seen Carwin put guys on queer street with just one punch. That one punch could give Brock the jello legs and he's not going to be able to wrestle Carwin if that happens.

If Brock put his ego aside, took Carwin down in the first few seconds of the fight, he would finish Carwin in some GnP. But I don't think Brock is capable of putting his ego aside, so we may very well see Carwin get his shot in and knock Brock out. This fight will tell us if Brock can take a big shot, I'm convinced of that.

To follow up on a few other comments in this thread about JDS and Cain, I think we need to see JDS against a real wrestler before we give him a chance against the big boys. Cain is a proven animal when it comes to wrestling but JDS hasn't shown us anything on the ground yet. He may be a fish out of water when he gets put on his back, who knows. It's one thing to have decent BJJ and train with Nog, Anderson etc. Its another thing to be on your back when a big SOB like Brock or Carwin is doing some GnP. Sometimes the technique is negated by the strength ala Mir vs Lesnar II.


----------



## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

If Brock is patient/cautious I think he can use his speed and reach to outstrike Carwin. He just can't overcomit or he will pay.


----------



## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

Either way somebody is going to sleep here...bbbuuuuttttt how awesome would it be for Brock to shock everybody and tap Shane out?????


----------



## Mr. White (Dec 14, 2009)

Carwin is ridng a HUGE WAVE and super confident. He has been smashing everybody in the 1st round, will Brock fair differently? With Brock's long lay off and maybe some ring rust he might find it difficult with Carwin, but Brocks got tons of anger and testosterone and it really feuls that big body of his. Brock always seems ready to fight reguardless of the state he is in. This fight is 50/50 for me at this point in time.


----------



## War (Feb 28, 2007)

I believe this goes to Brock in every area. People are in denial about Brock because of their bias against him. That's fine because it doesn't bother me. I'm bias towards him.

I'm also not someone who pretends about things though. So while he could easily lose I simply don't see it. Brock might even eat a Carwin KO punch and make that woodchuck face he makes and juggernaut through it. Then what does Carwin do? He can't out wrestle Brock. If he can't KO him then it becomes a very, very long night for Shane Carwin.

I think it'll be a long night for him.


----------



## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

Killstarz said:


> Has Lesnars chin been tested yet?


If Shane Carwin pulls off a flying knee kick like Mur and catches Brock it might be tested.


----------



## kay_o_ken (Jan 26, 2009)

Redrum said:


> I have no idea which way this fight is going to go, BUT I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE IT!


same, i like both fighters too so im not so worried bout whos gonna win just gonna sit back and enjoy it


----------



## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Killstarz said:


> Has Lesnars chin been tested yet?


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xnf1w_brock-lesnar-failed-shooting-star-p_sport

MMA says no, the laws of nature says yes.


----------



## ashokjr (Oct 15, 2006)

Majortom505 said:


> Didn't Gabriel Gonzaga knock him on his azz?
> I don't know who will win, *I can't predict the future* like some of you, but *I expect Lesnar to take the fight to the mat*. If he does... it will be awfully hard to knock Brock out from his back.


Expecting / hoping something to happen. If folks firmly believe in their expectation, they say it out which makes it a prediction. Not much difference between what others predicting and your expectation.


----------



## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

John8204 said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xnf1w_brock-lesnar-failed-shooting-star-p_sport
> 
> MMA says no, the laws of nature says yes.


Unless it was scripted for him to mess up?


----------



## VAwrestler (Jun 16, 2010)

I feel like everyone is completely underestimating Shane's wrestling. These two were NCAA wrestling powerhouses at the same time. They are very similar in size (even glove size) so I honestly believe the wrestling is a wash. 

Look at what Couture did to Brock in the clinch. He dominated Brock up against the cage and we all know Lesnar had the size and strength advantage. 

Carwin has shown that his dominance is in the clinch and I believe he has the definitive striking advantage. 

The only thing in question is how much force will it take to dent the mid-size sedan that Lesnar calls a head?? We will see..


----------



## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

VAwrestler said:


> Look at what Couture did to Brock in the clinch. He dominated Brock up against the cage and we all know Lesnar had the size and strength advantage


Uhhh.. dominated? 

Couture had him pushed against the cage with everything he had for about 30 seconds in the 2nd round but it didn't seem like Brock lost control in that clinch, Brock just kind relaxed a bit and made a quick move to turn the table. A little later got of the cage they stood and Brock finished the fight.

That said, Carwin's short punches in the clinches are his best shot at winning. He's not just a big strong wrestling dude, his wrestling prowess is more his defense, he has solid footwork, his greatest strength has been him being a very precise striker to rock people from distance... and in close range and clinches, short punches with precision, speed and power.

As far as how these guys wrestling has translated in MMA - Carwin missed on taking Mir down. Brock Lesnar took Mir down with a a tight grip and a hard solid shooting take down at the bell. 

In MMA, Brock has translated his NCAA wrestling to MMA wrestling much better than Carwin.


----------



## VAwrestler (Jun 16, 2010)

Then it took Lesnar quite a while to put Mir away while he was pinned to the mat. LOTS of hard hits and Mir really never went nite nite...Carwin was able to do that standing..very quickly too..

I expect complete domination by Carwin in this fight. I really don't expect Lesnar to even contend here.


----------



## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

Brother, I can't understand if you're criticizing me or praising me.



MrObjective said:


> Uhhh.. dominated?
> 
> Couture had him pushed against the cage with everything he had for about 30 seconds in the 2nd round but it didn't seem like Brock lost control in that clinch, Brock just kind relaxed a bit and made a quick move to turn the table. A little later got of the cage they stood and Brock finished the fight.
> 
> ...


Shane Carwin was a Junior College wrestler.
Brock was a Division 1 wrestler.
Randy is a Greco-Roman wrestler.
3 different things. There is no saying Shane couldn't of won big in Div 1, but to say he coul;d would be speculation not fact. Greco-Roman is fought on the feet, it is similar to Sumo in the fact it is brute strength and technique that wins.



VAwrestler said:


> I feel like everyone is completely underestimating Shane's wrestling. These two were NCAA wrestling powerhouses at the same time. They are very similar in size (even glove size) so I honestly believe the wrestling is a wash.
> 
> Look at what Couture did to Brock in the clinch. He dominated Brock up against the cage and we all know Lesnar had the size and strength advantage.
> 
> ...


Shane Carwin was a Junior College wrestler.
Brock was a Division 1 wrestler.
Randy is a Greco-Roman wrestler.
3 different things. There is no saying Shane couldn't of won big in Div 1, but to say he coul;d would be speculation not fact. Greco-Roman is fought on the feet, it is similar to Sumo in the fact it is brute strength and technique that wins.


----------



## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

VAwrestler said:


> Then it took Lesnar quite a while to put Mir away while he was pinned to the mat. LOTS of hard hits and Mir really never went nite nite...Carwin was able to do that standing..very quickly too..
> 
> I expect complete domination by Carwin in this fight. I really don't expect Lesnar to even contend here.


If you don't expect Lesnar to even contend, you haven't ever seen him fight, and you're completely throwing out the fact that Carwin is the _challenger_ in this fight, while Lesnar is the current *champion*.


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Carwin's wrestling does not need to be equal to Lesnar's. Carwin has enough of a wrestling background and enough strength to hopefully prevent Lesnar from being a blanket. As long as Carwin has the skills to constantly work to his feet and have some good cage work, then we will have a good fight. All Carwin needs is to land. The first two rounds are going to be epic.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Crap, I was hoping he'd predict a flying armbar.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

As Terror said, Carwin's wrestling isn't AS good as Brock's, but it's still good and he's still an experienced wrestler as well as being a big, strong man himself.

All he needs to do is have good enough wrestling to either:

1. Avoid a few takedowns
2. Stand back up

I think he can do both. All he needs to do is land a big shot and it's done. Brock doesn't have the power, from what we've seen, that Carwin does, and I feel if it stands long enough, Brock will get clipped and be put down.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Bknmax said:


> Unless it was scripted for him to mess up?


No. He was legitimately injured from that failed move. It was not scripted. In pro wrestling it's one thing to deliberately cut yourself so you bleed and look good for the cameras. It's another thing to deliberately injure your neck and give yourself a massive concussion.

As for my thoughts on Lesnar v Carwin... unless Carwin shows me something new this is Lesnar's fight to lose. Carwin has weakness' in his game. His wrestling hasn't translated nearly as well to mma as he missed a really bad td on Mir and he has a tendency to not use his reach. He throws these short - but admittedly powerful - punches letting people with less reach out strike him until he lands the robo punch. And there is still the matter of his standing restraining order against head movement. Until that whole court case clears up he has a problem.

Lesnar - on the other hand - has translated his wrestling extremely well to mma utilizing his speed, strength, and size to make an almost unstoppable shot. He tries to use his reach when he is striking. He's not the most skilled at it but he likes to land that big right straight from a long ways away.

The way I see this fight going - unless Carwin really does something different - is this. It starts out normally for Carwin. He goes throws a few fairly inaccurate short shots and eats a punch from Lesnar. This will rock him. Let's not kid ourselves people. Remember how hard a badly thrown punch from Lesnar hit Herring? If he rocks Carwin he will take him down and donkey kong him. Good fight, good night.

And one other thing... these guys really aren't the same size. Lesnar cuts down to 265 from probably close to 300lbs walking around weight. Now let's see Carwin's weigh in results.

UFC 111 - 265lbs respectable but suspect
UFC 96 - 259lbs
UFC 89 - 264lbs
UFC 84 - 252lbs

Hmm... his weigh in weight isn't far off but the numbers do tell a story. That he isn't cutting down nearly as much as Lesnar. Too much variation in the number. Tells me he is still trying to put on muscle. Muscle that Lesnar has carried and worked on his entire life. And did you see them in the cage together after Carwin beat Mir? Lesnar looked a weight class larger in shoulder breadth alone.

But those are just my thoughts. Mileage may vary.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

deadmanshand said:


> No. He was legitimately injured from that failed move. It was not scripted. In pro wrestling it's one thing to deliberately cut yourself so you bleed and look good for the cameras. It's another thing to deliberately injure your neck and give yourself a massive concussion.
> 
> As for my thoughts on Lesnar v Carwin... unless Carwin shows me something new this is Lesnar's fight to lose. Carwin has weakness' in his game. His wrestling hasn't translated nearly as well to mma as he missed a really bad td on Mir and he has a tendency to not use his reach. He throws these short - but admittedly powerful - punches letting people with less reach out strike him until he lands the robo punch. And there is still the matter of his standing restraining order against head movement. Until that whole court case clears up he has a problem.
> 
> ...


There's a few things wrong with your post.

For one, Carwin didn't take Mir down becasue he didn't WANT to take Mir down. Why would he willingly take down a guy who is great off his back? He kept it standing so that he could knonck him out, and he did just that.

The other thing that's wrong with your post, is that Brock didn't "rock" Herring. In fact, Herring was 100% awake and ready after he got hit by Brock. Herring rolled through once he hit the ground and tried standing back up. You don't roll through when you get rocked. He was perfectly ok, he was caught off guard, got hit, so it put him off balance, landed on his ass, then when he landed he rolled through to stand back up. I really hope you don't think that he literally punched Herring so hard that he flung Herring backwards and into a roll.

Brock's power isn't nearly as strong as Carwin's, from what we've seen.


----------



## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

He did knock Couture down with a punch though. Should probably have used that example TBH. Not like Carwin's never been knocked down either, was badly rocked by Gabe Gonzaga and was fortunate to recover. Brock would not give him the chance to recover like that. If Brock connects on the feet, then he's going to charge at Carwin and pound his face into the mat. I don't want to write Carwin off, as I did it prior to the Mir fight and was proven wrong, but I do see Lesnar taking this one.


----------



## VAwrestler (Jun 16, 2010)

Who is champ now doesn't matter. Ask Rich Franklin..Ask Rashad and Machida (the 2nd time) Hell ask Chuck!! 

Yes, I completely understand the different wrestling styles (obviously). Carwin obviously is from a different wrestling background than Randy, however, they both use the clinch game to their advantage. A smaller Randy was able to control Brock and I believe it will happen again, only this time with a big man hammerin on him.

Didn't really realize my comment would stir this much up! lol Especially since *most* of us seem to agree on the outcome lol


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Danm2501 said:


> He did knock Couture down with a punch though. Should probably have used that example TBH. Not like Carwin's never been knocked down either, was badly rocked by Gabe Gonzaga and was fortunate to recover. Brock would not give him the chance to recover like that. If Brock connects on the feet, then he's going to charge at Carwin and pound his face into the mat. I don't want to write Carwin off, as I did it prior to the Mir fight and was proven wrong, but I do see Lesnar taking this one.


Randy isn't really that hard to rock these days. He was put down by Nog multiple times, with shots that honestly weren't that devastating. He hit Randy behind the ear and rocked him. Carwin can hit you anywhere and put you down, that's the difference.

Gonzaga also didn't rock him "badly", his legs stumbled for half a second then he recovered extremely quickly.

The only strikes Brock has ever done in his whole career that had any sort of "rocking" ability were all in the Randy fight (other than on the ground with Mir, of course), and as I said earlier, it's not exactly hard to Rock Randy.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Michael Carson said:


> There's a few things wrong with your post.
> 
> For one, Carwin didn't take Mir down becasue he didn't WANT to take Mir down. Why would he willingly take down a guy who is great off his back? He kept it standing so that he could knonck him out, and he did just that.
> 
> ...


Actually there are a few things wrong with your post, Michael. Carwin did try to take Mir down and Mir stuffed it. Did he use the stuffed td to his advantage? Most definitely but it was a stuffed td. 

The second thing is about the Herring punch. It didn't rock or hurt him at all? Explain his borken orbital bone then. Explain that the punch did take a 240lb man off of his feet hard enough that he had to roll with the impact instead of just getting back up. 

The point I was making is that Lesnar does hit hard. Maybe not Carwin hard - we won't know that until his striking technique catches up to Carwin - but he does hit hard. He dropped Mir. He dropped Randy and Herring. To deny that he has any power because his opponent has more is somewhat blind. 

If he connects solidly with Carwin it will rock Carwin because Carwin has been rocked by people who have shown less power than what Lesnar has.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

deadmanshand said:


> Actually there are a few things wrong with your post, Michael. Carwin did try to take Mir down and Mir stuffed it. Did he use the stuffed td to his advantage? Most definitely but it was a stuffed td.
> 
> The second thing is about the Herring punch. It didn't rock or hurt him at all? Explain his borken orbital bone then. Explain that the punch did take a 240lb man off of his feet hard enough that he had to roll with the impact instead of just getting back up.
> 
> ...


I never said it didn't hurt him, I said it didn't rock him. He got put on his ass then he rolled through and tried standing up. You don't roll through like that if you're rocked. Hurt? Yeah, I'm sure it did hurt, he got hit by a big fist, but rocked? No, he rolled through and was completely aware.

Hurt = hurt, in pain.

Rocked = dizzy, unaware, seeing lil birdies, rocked.

As for the Mir fight, Carwin never fully went in and tried to take Mir down, his entire gameplan was to keep the fight standing and knock him out, that's almost always his gameplan. Do you honestly think if Carwin were to go full out and try to take Mir down with 100% of his energy and focus, that he wouldn't get it? I am very sure that he would if he really wanted to.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Actually you said that Herring was perfectly OK after that shot. That says that it neither hurt him nor rocked him. When it did hurt him. Badly. It broke his orbital bone and basically took Herring out of the fight. All he did for the remaining 15 minutes was try to avoid having the big vanilla gorilla peel him like a banana. That's a better indication of the damage it did than anything else.

Actually I do question that very thing. The great equalizer in this fight that everyone is discussing is Carwin's wrestling ability. An ability that he supposedly has at championship level today yet that we have never seen him utilize in his mma career. He doesn't use it so why should I believe that he could easily take Mir down if he wanted to? I need proof. Not suppositions. Chuck Liddell has a collegiate record too and a good one. Should I expect him to easily take people down if he really wanted too?

P.S. I know Chuck has taken down Wandy and Rich but there are extenuating circumstances on both. Wandy's tdd has always been knees which he has apparently forgotten how to throw and Rich... well his kick was caught and he had a broken arm.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Carwins wrestling will be enough to neutralise Brocks take down attempts and keep the fight standing. carwin is going to knock brock lesnar out cold.

And can people stop saying carwin failed to take Mir down, he wasnt trying to take Mir down in the first place...

And no, heath herring wasnt rocked from that punch, its similar to the rashad/rampage punch. Rampage wasnt rocked either. Hurt, yes, Rocked, no.

Carwin has proven to have venom in his hands,brock hasnt shown to have the same kind of power.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> Actually you said that Herring was perfectly OK after that shot. That says that it neither hurt him nor rocked him. When it did hurt him. Badly. It broke his orbital bone and basically took Herring out of the fight. All he did for the remaining 15 minutes was try to avoid having the big vanilla gorilla peel him like a banana. That's a better indication of the damage it did than anything else.
> 
> Actually I do question that very thing. The great equalizer in this fight that everyone is discussing is Carwin's wrestling ability. An ability that he supposedly has at championship level today yet that we have never seen him utilize in his mma career. He doesn't use it so why should I believe that he could easily take Mir down if he wanted to? I need proof. Not suppositions. Chuck Liddell has a collegiate record too and a good one. Should I expect him to easily take people down if he really wanted too?
> 
> P.S. I know Chuck has taken down Wandy and Rich but there are extenuating circumstances on both. Wandy's tdd has always been knees which he has apparently forgotten how to throw and Rich... well his kick was caught and he had a broken arm.


For a start, you need to brush up on your reading comprehension. carson didnt say that herring was perfectly ok after that shot, he said he was 100 percent ready to go and he was. Obviously he was hurt, but like he said, he wasnt rocked or dazed, he was ready to go.

Stop waffling on about chuck and wrestling. Carwin has proven his wrestling is legit. Watch the Gonzaga, Neil Waine and some of his other earlier fights to see it for yourself. He wasnt trying to take down mir, he was wearing him down in the clinch and striking from that position. Not once did he try a take down attempt.


----------



## VAwrestler (Jun 16, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Carwin has proven to have venom in his hands,brock hasnt shown to have the same kind of power.


Strength doesn't always mean KO power. I agree, Brock hasn't shown he has that KO prowess the way Shane has.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

VAwrestler said:


> Strength doesn't always mean KO power. I agree, Brock hasn't shown he has that KO prowess the way Shane has.


Nvm, misinterpreted.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> For a start, you need to brush up on your reading comprehension. carson didnt say that herring was perfectly ok after that shot, he said he was 100 percent ready to go and he was. Obviously he was hurt, but like he said, he wasnt rocked or dazed, he was ready to go.
> 
> Stop waffling on about chuck and wrestling. Carwin has proven his wrestling is legit. Watch the Gonzaga, Neil Waine and some of his other earlier fights to see it for yourself. He wasnt trying to take down mir, he was wearing him down in the clinch and striking from that position. Not once did he try a take down attempt.


You need to brush up on your reading comprehension, McKeever. Go back and read his post to me. It actually does say he was perfectly okay. It really does. So try actually paying attention to what the people you are supporting have actually said before jumping on their opposition in the argument. 

See message #43 in this thread. Read it. Realize that first paragraph of yours is wrong.

Let's see he got up from under Gonzaga who has never really held anybody other than Cro Cop down in any of his fights. Gonzaga who is one of the most over hyped heavyweights. Who was casually out struck and out grappled by Randy Couture. And we're surprised by someone significantly larger and stronger simply standing up from beneath him? Who do you think is easier to get up from under - Gonzaga or Lesnar?

If you're answer is Lesnar you haven't been paying attention.

And using the argument that because he took down Neil Wain it proves his wrestling is not really valid because Neil Wain is who? Who has he beat? Anybody of note? Anything to prove that he is not a can? 

No? Hmm. Maybe he hasn't proven his wrestling has he? He hasn't even shown the ability to avoid being taken down. He is being given a chance in this fight because of abilities that he has never shown. Other than punching power he hasn't shown anything.

And you know he wasn't trying to score a td how? Reading his mind? A close personal friend? Because it looked like a badly done shot. Which it was. Regardless of what he may or may not have said. He may have used it to his advantage but it was a stuffed td.

I normally try not to get snarky in these arguments but I hate it when people talk down to me.


----------



## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

IMO Carwin's power is good but somewhat overhyped. All his one hit KOs came against subpar competition.


----------



## Pound&Mound (Dec 10, 2007)

leifdawg said:


> IMO Carwin's power is good but somewhat overhyped. All his one hit KOs came against subpar competition.


What does subpar competition have to do with KO power?


----------



## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

leifdawg said:


> IMO Carwin's power is good but somewhat overhyped. All his one hit KOs came against subpar competition.


... Mir? Gonzaga? Subpar? I give you some of these guys are not the greatest but I don't think Carwin's power is overhyped at all. His offinsive striking is the most powerful in the HW division. If you get in close and he has got your timing down, which so far has only taken roughly a minute in everyone of his fights, you are in some serious trouble. 

Though I think that we might be seeing the first time the Carwin goes out of the first round. I see Lesnar as having a good chin and being pretty fast and having the offensive tools to disrupt Carwin's striking. Carwin will have to worry about the right straight that comes from pretty far back and the TD attempts that come quickly and from far out. But I think Carwin can time Lesnar shooting in and putting Lesnar to sleep for a good while.

Also I have to admit that the possibilities of this fight going to the championship rounds are terrible and that makes this fight a toss up the later this fight goes.


----------



## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Actually, Carwin did try to take Mir down. People need to watch the fight again, even when in the clinch, he tried lifting Mir up in a way where it looked like he was trying to manage a take down. Carwin even went for a leg while doing that, he may have not put all of his effort into it, but that is technically trying to take someone down.

Anyways, as you can tell from my earlier post, I'm not impressed with Carwins striking even though I think he is a better striker than Lesnar and has more power. Carwins striking defense is terrible and I think the only reason he is such a threat standing is because he is the hardest hitting heavyweight in the UFC. He got tagged multiple times by Wellisch early on in their fight, he was losing during the standup against Wain easily and was forced to go for a take down, got rocked by Gonzaga before Gonzaga got over confident, and avoided exchanging with Mir by clinching when ever he got the opportunity. People should stop mentioning Carwins "good technique" standing because without his power, we all would consider him a one dimensional grappler with terrible stand up.

Although considering he is the hardest hitter in the UFC that only needs one solid punch to finish someone usually, it really doesn't matter. I just want to point out that he is a mediocre striker and if he does manage to knock Lesnar out, he will probably get tagged a few times first because of his lack of defense.

That being said, if Lesnar doesn't have too much ring rust, I think he will win by technical knock out in the third round by using his superior wrestling.


----------



## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Nick_V03 said:


> Actually, Carwin did try to take Mir down. People need to watch the fight again, even when in the clinch, he tried lifting Mir up in a way where it looked like he was trying to manage a take down. Carwin even went for a leg while doing that, he may have not put all of his effort into it, but that is technically trying to take someone down.
> 
> Anyways, as you can tell from my earlier post, I'm not impressed with Carwins striking even though I think he is a better striker than Lesnar and has more power. Carwins striking defense is terrible and I think the only reason he is such a threat standing is because he is the hardest hitting heavyweight in the UFC. He got tagged multiple times by Wellisch early on in their fight, he was losing during the standup against Wain easily and was forced to go for a take down, got rocked by Gonzaga before Gonzaga got over confident, and avoided exchanging with Mir by clinching when ever he got the opportunity. People should stop mentioning Carwins "good technique" standing because without his power, we all would consider him a one dimensional grappler with terrible stand up.
> 
> ...


He does have good technique. He was not hurt ever in the willisch fight, He was not hurt in the wain fight. He took two solid punches across the chin in a row from GG to even daze him... 

The KO of willisch was perfect. I love that combo and it was executed perfectly. The Gonzaga KO was another very good standup combo. Very similar to the willisch one. The Mir KO is the only one that he just used pure power to murder Mir. 

I do agree he needs to work on head movement andjust overall ring movement so that he can avoid punches and if he gets hit with a straight right with all of Lesnar's strength behind it he will get hurt. He also needs to keep Lesnar from teeing off on his face like he did to Mir. But to say he does not have technique sounds foolish to me.


----------



## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

leifdawg said:


> IMO Carwin's power is good but somewhat overhyped. All his one hit KOs came against subpar competition.


Carwin's precision and boxing are underhyped. 
Carwin's power striking is not overhyped.

Carwin's wrestling ability however is ridiculously overhyped.

The first part of Carwin VS Mir was takedown attempt, and Carwin showed no explosiveness or drive. Again he tried to take down Mir down during the first clinch and tried again a little harder, looked awful. A separation. Some exchanging, dirty boxing with Mir trying to avoid damage. Then Carwin took over with with an uppercut Mir got rocked, 30 precise punches - uppercuts, hooks, strikes to the head later Super-Mir was unconcious.

Brock's has never shown the ability to dirty box, but he hasn't really had to. He was never really in any trouble for the little period on the cage against Couture, but he was seemingly slightly gassed for that short period, but that wore off quick and eventually he shoved Couture around on the clinch some dirty boxing, Brock holding on to Couture's hands with ease. Then when they got off the cage -- Brock finished. Brock knows how to throw a punch - you don't knock people off their feet, across the ring if you don't get a full torque in your punch - he just doesn't isn't a boxer.

People look at this as two wrestlers. I see Carwin as hardly a wrestler - ok yes some 10 odd years ago he was great collegiate wrestler, but not anymore. Brock is still at a pretty high level.

Carwin's a boxer, but I can see him getting taken down by Brock shooting very easily.

Way's this can end ranked:

#1 *Brock *takes down Carwin and GnP to TKO
#2 *Brock *gets take downs, but is unable to keep Carwin down. After two rounds, both are gassed, and it's sloppy weak striking. Lot of clinches against the cage. Brock wins a decion because of his early TDs and GnP.
#3 *Carwin *KOs/rocks Brock and finishes
#4 *Brock *KOs/rocks Carwin and finishes
#5 Brock isn't able to take Carwin down, but *Carwin *wins by decision on strikes.
#6 *Brock *isn't able to take Carwin down, but Brock wins by decision on strikes.

Needless to say, the least likely of all possibilities in my mind is Carwin shooting and getting a take down and GnPing Brock.


----------



## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

MrObjective said:


> Carwin's precision and boxing are underhyped.
> Carwin's power striking is not overhyped.
> 
> Carwin's wrestling ability however is ridiculously overhyped.
> ...


I wouldn't say it is the least likely of all possibilities. That I would give to Brock winning by Flying scissor heel hook. I would bet everything in my life that would not happen.


----------



## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

I may have went overboard, it's just the holes in his stand up I have trouble getting over. I don't doubt that he wasn't hurt against Wellisch or Wain, but getting hit with solid punches consistently isn't a habit he should get into. He knocked Wellisch out seconds later so I won't give him too much flack for that, but Wain was tagging him with some decent punches before he got taken down and Carwin himself admitted that he was disappointed by how much he struggled standing in that fight.

Then against Gonzaga, he got rocked and I wouldn't give Carwin too much credit for figuring out Gonzagas timing or anything like that. He obviously took advantage of Gonzaga getting too comfortable thinking he hurt Carwin more than he actually did.

Carwin having a lot of power and a good chin has assisted him well in the UFC, I'll stop the comments about his technique, but it still doesn't impress me that much. His non existent defense over shadows it in my opinion.


----------



## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

The505Butcher said:


> I wouldn't say it is the least likely of all possibilities. That I would give to Brock winning by Flying scissor heel hook. I would bet everything in my life that would not happen.




That is an interesting one what is the least likely this fight can end? One of the two is rocked and and the other guy ends it with some sort of Mortal Kombat fatality.


----------



## Thunder1 (Aug 16, 2008)

And one other thing... these guys really aren't the same size. Lesnar cuts down to 265 from probably close to 300lbs walking around weight. Now let's see Carwin's weigh in results.

UFC 111 - 265lbs respectable but suspect
UFC 96 - 259lbs
UFC 89 - 264lbs
UFC 84 - 252lbs

He just said in the video he was walking around right now at 285.


----------



## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

Thunder1 said:


> And one other thing... these guys really aren't the same size. Lesnar cuts down to 265 from probably close to 300lbs walking around weight. Now let's see Carwin's weigh in results.
> 
> UFC 111 - 265lbs respectable but suspect
> UFC 96 - 259lbs
> ...


Yeah the whole weight thing is exaggerated for a lot of fighters, there's going to be what a max 10 pound differential in weight when the two monsters step in to the ring. You want to dehydrate yourself you're body is going to be out of homeostasis and you lose that factor in the fight, that's on you, you're body doesn't just say snap in to it instantly and say hazah saline, vitamin, and electrolytes I.V., i'm supercharged now. Weigh-ins right before fight night, both will be at exactly 265ish. Guys who have done weight cutting will take a toll - i.e. pictures of anorexic 205 lbs Overeem. (and potentially Frank Mir in the future).

I get annoyed by the whole hype about Anderson Silva walking around at 230 lbs all the time. Ed Soares in March just said Anderson was under 195 at the time. Lyoto probably has drink a gallon of milk to make 205.


----------



## VAwrestler (Jun 16, 2010)

F Silva. 

I would rather go into a fight at my walkaround weight than have to cut 30 lbs and hydrate the night before...


----------



## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

VAwrestler said:


> F Silva.
> 
> I would rather go into a fight at my walkaround weight than have to cut 30 lbs and hydrate the night before...


Silva probably the one guy who shouldn't deserve critisim for that, he actually said he wants to fight at HW. Same with Fedor, he's kinda pudgy he could stand to diet a bit.

You'd be more in the right to critize other guys. 

Thiago Alves should jump to his alleged walk around weight is 225, he should move from WW to HW. Rampage and Forrest should definitely be at HW.

GSP shouldn't say I need a year of proper nutrition and training before moving MW when he walks around at 190+ as he trains year round.


----------



## VAwrestler (Jun 16, 2010)

Miscommunication on my part..I was just saying F Silva lol

I was referring to the cut that Lesnar has to make. While he does provide a large mass of a human, someone who is also a beast ass that doesn't have to cut the weight so much should be able to handle it better than someone who also has to cut a shit ton of weight.


----------



## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

VAwrestler said:


> Miscommunication on my part..I was just saying F Silva lol
> 
> I was referring to the cut that Lesnar has to make. While he does provide a large mass of a human, someone who is also a beast ass that doesn't have to cut the weight so much should be able to handle it better than someone who also has to cut a shit ton of weight.


If that is true, and I am NOT saying it isn't, why do they all cut weight? Are they stupid? Ignorant? Brain washed?


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

deadmanshand said:


> Actually you said that Herring was perfectly OK after that shot. That says that it neither hurt him nor rocked him. When it did hurt him. Badly. It broke his orbital bone and basically took Herring out of the fight. All he did for the remaining 15 minutes was try to avoid having the big vanilla gorilla peel him like a banana. That's a better indication of the damage it did than anything else.
> 
> Actually I do question that very thing. The great equalizer in this fight that everyone is discussing is Carwin's wrestling ability. An ability that he supposedly has at championship level today yet that we have never seen him utilize in his mma career. He doesn't use it so why should I believe that he could easily take Mir down if he wanted to? I need proof. Not suppositions. Chuck Liddell has a collegiate record too and a good one. Should I expect him to easily take people down if he really wanted too?
> 
> P.S. I know Chuck has taken down Wandy and Rich but there are extenuating circumstances on both. Wandy's tdd has always been knees which he has apparently forgotten how to throw and Rich... well his kick was caught and he had a broken arm.


Uhh, by perfectly ok I meant not rocked, 100% mentally fit, not dizzy, not distrubed, perfectly ready and able to defend himself. Any punch hurts, that's why it's called a punch. I never said Brock couldn't hurt someone, but hurt doesn't = rocked, it means hurt. People get hurt everytime they get kicked in the ribs, everytime they get kicked in the leg, it hurts, but it does not rock them, and Brock NEVER rocked Herring, he was always 100% able to defend himself and was never rocked.

Carwin is a very solid wrestler and he's a big guy. He uses his wrestling to stay standing, rather than look for takedowns. He uses his base and his skills to keep the fight up where he has a lot of power and can knock people out, just like Liddell did back in his prime.

Your Liddell example is terrible. Liddell has taken down Shogun, Rich, and Wandy, in recent fights. Tito could never take him down, even Randy struggled a great deal to get him down, and out of 3 fights, only took him down 3-4 times total. Everytime Liddell has ever used his wrestling to take someone down, he did. On the flip side, 90% of the time when someoen tries to take him down, they fail, horribly.

We all know that Carwin has good wrestling and is a big guy. He has a wrestling background, but much like Liddell, uses it to stay standing rather than get the fight to the ground, cause also like Liddell, he has a hell of a lot of power in his hands and can knock anyone out at any given time.

If you cannot see this, then I honestly don't know what to tell you.


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

This will be the first fight in wich Brock won't have the size and strenght advantage, so i am curious what is his strategy. He mught be a bit bigger and stronger, but on fight night that won't matter. I don't think he will be able to do his usual game against Carwin. He is strong as hell, a very good wrestler and has a much better ring movement than Brock.
Plus i think he holds a big afvantage reguarding the striking, Brock has some power in his hands, but if will engage in some striking with Carwin i think he will go to sleep very early. When Carwin connects it's lights out. He has superior KO power in his hands, plus he is the more technical striker. On the grounf i see it prety even: 55-45 Brock, bit on the feet it's 80-20 Carwin imo.
My prediction: Brock will crumble after the first or second punch of Carwin lands.


----------



## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

Carwin would have no confidence in himself if he predicted something else than a KO win for himself. He is not going to sub Brock and knows that, so either he knocks Brock out, loses, or the fight lasts for 5 rounds. 
I dunno about you guys, but "I'm going to knock Brock out" sounds much better than "I'm propably getting my ass kicked, but if I wont there is a good chance for me to yoink a decision win!"
I would rather see more of less obvious comments from Carwin as he is pretty intelligent guy for an engineer.


----------



## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

Pound&Mound said:


> What does subpar competition have to do with KO power?



Subpar guys don't defend as well and leave their chin exposed.
If you are in better condition your are able to recover faster and could potentially mean the difference between getting rocked and going unconcious.



The505Butcher said:


> ... Mir? Gonzaga? Subpar? I give you some of these guys are not the greatest but I don't think Carwin's power is overhyped at all. His offinsive striking is the most powerful in the HW division. If you get in close and he has got your timing down, which so far has only taken roughly a minute in everyone of his fights, you are in some serious trouble.


I'll give you Gonzaga (although he is none for having poor conditioning and not a lot of heart). But Mir was still attempting submissions after 15-20 unblocked shots and was walking around moments later. That is not a one hit KO.



MrObjective said:


> Brock's has never shown the ability to dirty box, but he hasn't really had to. He was never really in any trouble for the little period on the cage against Couture, but he was seemingly slightly gassed for that short period, but that wore off quick and eventually he shoved Couture around on the clinch some dirty boxing, Brock holding on to Couture's hands with ease. Then when they got off the cage -- Brock finished. Brock knows how to throw a punch - you don't knock people off their feet, across the ring if you don't get a full torque in your punch - he just doesn't isn't a boxer.


While we haven't seen a whole lot dirty boxing from Brock we have seen some devestating knees to the body from the clinch.


----------



## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

leifdawg said:


> Subpar guys don't defend as well and leave their chin exposed.
> If you are in better condition your are able to recover faster and could potentially mean the difference between getting rocked and going unconcious.
> I'll give you Gonzaga (although he is none for having poor conditioning and not a lot of heart). But Mir was still attempting submissions after 15-20 unblocked shots and was walking around moments later. That is not a one hit KO.
> 
> While we haven't seen a whole lot dirty boxing from Brock we have seen some devestating knees to the body from the clinch.


Yes but the Mir KO was pretty dang impressive. I don't remember him going for submmsions though. It has been a while since I saw the fight but He looked like he was just trying to gain some control because he did not want to be murdered. And he might have been up later but he was out once Carwin started landing those GnP shots. His head was bouncing off the floor like crazy. It might not have been a one hit KO but that is the difference between Lesnar's GnP and Carwin's.


----------



## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

It's 'bout time the trash talking picked up! The fight's nearing and there are PPV's to be sold!

Man, this is gonna be epic....

Even if it's not epic, the hype and anticipation is going to be so much fun, the fight itself will almost be anticlimactic. 

Personally, I think Brock will be able to cautious enough to avoid serious damage standing and take it to the ground asap. 

Brock doesn't like to get hit, but I suspect he's got a much better chin than even he gives himself credit for. 

If Brock loses, he gets JDS. If he wins, bring on Cain. 

If Brock gets past Cain, bring on.....


----------



## Dream-On-101 (Jun 4, 2009)

This is probably the most excited i have been for a fight in a long time. As has been noted several times, its really only going to go 3 ways - Brock by takedown and gnp, Carwin by KO or gassed out decision win (more than likely Brocks)

In my opinion, Brock takes this. Resoundingly. I am getting tedious of the exaggeration of Carwin - he isnt 6.5, he isnt 12-0 all by KO and he is in NOT as big, or anything like as athletic as Brock. 

Carwin is a big dude who hits hard with *decent* wrestling background. 
Brock is an awesomely gifted athlete in every sense of the word, with excellent wrestling which is proven to be highly effective in MMA. 

Brock will not stand with this guy for longer than it takes to shoot and get the takedown. He will then ground and pound him out, or take a decision ala Herring depending on how much heart Carwin really has once a fight goes past 3 minutes. 

Just my opinions, but Brock takes this one far more convincinly than most people are expecting.


----------



## suffersystem (Feb 4, 2007)

Dream-On-101 said:


> This is probably the most excited i have been for a fight in a long time. As has been noted several times, its really only going to go 3 ways - Brock by takedown and gnp, Carwin by KO or gassed out decision win (more than likely Brocks)
> 
> In my opinion, Brock takes this. Resoundingly. I am getting tedious of the exaggeration of Carwin - he isnt 6.5, he isnt 12-0 all by KO and he is in NOT as big, or anything like as athletic as Brock.
> 
> ...




I'm going to have to go with this.

I am a Brock fan, but one should never underestimate Shane's KO power. I will be just happy seeing the fight regardless of who wins.


----------



## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

The505Butcher said:


> Yes but the Mir KO was pretty dang impressive. I don't remember him going for submmsions though. It has been a while since I saw the fight but He looked like he was just trying to gain some control because he did not want to be murdered. And he might have been up later but he was out once Carwin started landing those GnP shots. His head was bouncing off the floor like crazy. It might not have been a one hit KO but that is the difference between Lesnar's GnP and Carwin's.


I just watched the fight 2 days ago. After the failed takedown carwin goes for the single collar clinch and throws a forearm that wobbles Mir. After about 6-8 uppercuts Mir drops to his knees and eats about 7-10 more headshots before rolling for a kimura. Carwin then hits him with several more shots before he curls up and falls flat to the mat. Mir was up and looking fine a few seconds later.



michelangelo said:


> It's 'bout time the trash talking picked up! The fight's nearing and there are PPV's to be sold!
> 
> Man, this is gonna be epic....
> 
> ...


You had me until you suggested that John Jones should fight Lesnar.


----------



## kgilstrap (Dec 3, 2006)

leifdawg said:


> I just watched the fight 2 days ago. After the failed takedown carwin goes for the single collar clinch and throws a forearm that wobbles Mir. After about *6-8 uppercuts* Mir drops to his knees and eats about *7-10 more headshots* before rolling for a kimura. Carwin then hits him with several more shots before he curls up and falls flat to the mat. *Mir was up and looking fine a few seconds later.*
> You had me until you suggested that John Jones should fight Lesnar.


Posts like this show your bias...first learn to count and watch it again, second learn to count seconds and watch it again. :confused05:


----------



## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Pound&Mound said:


> What does subpar competition have to do with KO power?


Gotta be one of the most stupid questions i have seen yet. :confused02:


----------



## VAwrestler (Jun 16, 2010)

Majortom505 said:


> If that is true, and I am NOT saying it isn't, why do they all cut weight? Are they stupid? Ignorant? Brain washed?


I'm just going on my experience from wrestling. I felt soooo F'n drained if I had to cut some extra weight. Usually I tried to keep within 5 lbs or so. That way I knew I was well hydrated and not too tired. Granted, we would weigh in about an hour or so before the match so staying hydrated was much more difficult.


----------



## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

VAwrestler said:


> I'm just going on my experience from wrestling. I felt soooo F'n drained if I had to cut some extra weight. Usually I tried to keep within 5 lbs or so. That way I knew I was well hydrated and not too tired. Granted, we would weigh in about an hour or so before the match so staying hydrated was much more difficult.


It's a completely different animal when the weigh in is 24 hours plus before the fight. You can eat 4 meals between the weigh in and the fight.


----------



## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Dream-On-101 said:


> In my opinion, Brock takes this. Resoundingly. *I am getting tedious of the exaggeration of Carwin - he isnt 6.5, he isnt 12-0 all by KO and he is in NOT as big, or anything like as athletic as Brock. *


Wait woah woah woah...

I have never heard anyone say Carwin is 6.5. The top I have heard is that he is 6.3 and he is at leas 6.2 so there is not that much of a difference. sorry about that one inch that makes this fight a joke and makes Carwin so small compared to Lesnar.

No mateer what you like to say he is 12-0 all in the first round. All of his UFC wins are by KO. I think that him actually having some subbmission wins makes his record a little better than having all KOs.

He is as close as it gets to being as big as Lesnar. Lesnar is only considered athletic because he sprints full speed at his opponents for the takedown or right straight. The only reason he was able to do that was because nobody posed any threat to him standing so he did not have to worry about their hands.

I give you that he is fast and is right up there in athleticism but he is not miles ahead of Carwin.


----------



## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

The505Butcher said:


> Wait woah woah woah...
> 
> I have never heard anyone say Carwin is 6.5. The top I have heard is that he is 6.3 and he is at leas 6.2 so there is not that much of a difference. sorry about that one inch that makes this fight a joke and makes Carwin so small compared to Lesnar.
> 
> ...


Yes he is.


----------



## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Majortom505 said:


> Yes he is.


... oh I am sorry is this all you have to say? I thought you were going to give me a reason for your opinion... but...


----------



## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

I think UFC.Com had him listed as 6'5" until the Frank Murr fight.


----------



## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

RustyRenegade said:


> I think UFC.Com had him listed as 6'5" until the Frank Murr fight.


Really? Well who believes the UFC's measurments anyways? I mean this has always been debated for a while. They had Chris Leben the same height as Anderson Silva for their fight... and we all saw the size difference there.


----------



## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

The505Butcher said:


> Really? Well who believes the UFC's measurments anyways? I mean this has always been debated for a while. They had Chris Leben the same height as Anderson Silva for their fight... and we all saw the size difference there.


I never even looked on there to confirm if they had him listed as that tall but heard alot of jokes about them doing it. Ever since I started playing sports, teams always lie about the height and weight of their players.


----------



## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

RustyRenegade said:


> I never even looked on there to confirm if they had him listed as that tall but heard alot of jokes about them doing it. Ever since I started playing sports, teams always lie about the height and weight of their players.


Yep. Well I am assuming not the weight for the actual weigh in but probably for the fight and before. I do know that Carwin is the closest person to the size and strength of Lesnar in this division though.


----------



## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

The505Butcher said:


> Yep. Well I am assuming not the weight for the actual weigh in but probably for the fight and before. I do know that Carwin is the closest person to the size and strength of Lesnar in this division though.


Ya, I'm not doubting that. I just think there's gonna be a bigger size advantage then alot of people think. I've said it before, but I think Carwins the only one that has a chance to beat him. I hope he doesn't and I don't think he will but I'm definitely nervous:thumb02:


----------



## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

Didn't anyone see Brock and Shane next to each other after Carwin won the interim HW Belt? If you did and still claim they are close in height, I can't believe anything you say.


----------



## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Majortom505 said:


> Didn't anyone see Brock and Shane next to each other after Carwin won the interim HW Belt? If you did and still claim they are close in height, I can't believe anything you say.


A fully clothed not dropped weight person with dress shoes on next to a barefoot person... that is your proof. Yes I think he will be a bit taller and a bit bigger... but that is your proof?


----------



## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

The505Butcher said:


> A fully clothed not dropped weight person with dress shoes on next to a barefoot person... that is your proof. Yes I think he will be a bit taller and a bit bigger... but that is your proof?


Yes my eye's are my proof.


----------



## VAwrestler (Jun 16, 2010)

Yes, we have established Brock is the bigger man here. However, the point is that Shane is *almost* his size and is the closest in his weight class. 

I agree with what was said earlier. Is Brock athletic, ofcourse. As stated earlier, he just runs forward and directly through smaller opponents..Shane is not someone he can just run right through. We will see how "athletic" he is. More importantly, we will see how strong that huge dome of his really is.


----------

