# Brock Lesnar V Frank Mir II



## jake_schofield (Oct 26, 2007)

*Brock Lesnar V Frank Mir*

not to sure if im looking foward to the rematch that much. to me i think mir will be an easyier match up for lesnar than what nogueria would be and i really cant see Mir getting Lesnar in the same sort of problem that he tapped him out with last time round.
tbh i would really enjoy to watch lesnar v nogueria.
but if the lesnar v mir fight starts the same way it could be over real quick they need to throw brock in the cage with gonzaga or kongo imo.
any way in ufc anything can happen and mir already done that but is it possible agian???


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## Red Baron (Jul 17, 2008)

mir's boxing seems to be miles ahead of what it used to be, if he can fight the way he did against nog he'll destroy brock.


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## sarah_gee (Dec 21, 2008)

very challenging fight, don't think it'll be easy but Mir will still take it


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## Clivey (May 28, 2007)

Frank won't be able to stand and trade with Brock like he did with Nog, he'll still be able to throw a couple of combos but he should still be looking for the submission win.


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## jake_schofield (Oct 26, 2007)

with confidence like mir i cant see him turning down any fight lol i think his confidnce played a big role in his fight against nog too


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## jake_schofield (Oct 26, 2007)

brocks power scares me ALOT


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## randyspankstito (Sep 25, 2006)

If he can somehow pull guard, I think he get's the sub. I don't see his punches doing that much to Lesnar.

I'll be pulling for him for sure.


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## USMCOgre (Dec 8, 2008)

Brock rd 3 TKO


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

I think Mir hits plenty hard, he's just lacked the technical proficiency in the past to show his power. So Brock needs to be careful there....we still haven't seen how well he takes a few hard shots. 

I think Mir is better standing, and without question better on the ground. Brock's massive size is always a wild-card, but i think it's going to be tough night for Lesnar if the Mir we saw last night shows up.


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

imo after last night i pick mir all the way . brock is not as good as many people say. 
mir via 1 rd toe hold


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## valvetronix (Feb 3, 2008)

Flak said:


> I think Mir hits plenty hard, he's just lacked the technical proficiency in the past to show his power. So Brock needs to be careful there....we still haven't seen how well he takes a few hard shots.
> 
> I think Mir is better standing, and without question better on the ground. Brock's massive size is always a wild-card, but i think it's going to be tough night for Lesnar if the Mir we saw last night shows up.


Mir has said on a few occasions that Brock is the hardest puncher he has faced.

I am sure Mir would be as geared up for the fight. But it would not be a wise idea on his part to try and stand and trade with Brock the same way he did Nog. With Nog he really didnt have to be worried about throwing a pretty combo, and waking up 10 minutes later.


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

i am sure mir was hyping lesnar ... he even said it in interview


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## Red Baron (Jul 17, 2008)

pinky toe hold?


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Oh absolutely Brock hits like a truck; I'm just saying that i think Mir has some good power too. Enough to put the big man down anyway. 

I agree with you that Mir should try and submit him. I'd love to see Brock get dropped though and have Mir just swarm on him then take his arm.


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## jake_schofield (Oct 26, 2007)

yea considering mir is the only person to knockout nogueria then maybe brock has something more to watch out for thats if he survives brocks brutal punches


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## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

What I'm wondering is if Lesnar will try to keep it standing or go for the take down a lot. Before last night I would of said he would keep it standing because Mir already submitted him and Brock discovered he could break people's faces with one punch. But now Mir has shown his striking is 10 times better than before (at least from what I've ever seen from him). I still think Brock hits harder and is faster but Mir could knock him out or at least down and then finish it.

So now I'm thinking Brock keeps it standing and goes for takedowns near the end of the round for points. He is said to have a lot better jitz defense now so hes not as likely to get submitted as quickly and if Mir gets one in Brock could get saved by the bell.

What do you guys think?


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## BlitzGT (Aug 16, 2008)

Lesnar round 1 tko.

Lesnar wont stand there eating punches like Nog did. He also has a lot more power than Mir and he knows to control himself and will not allow himself to get caught in another sub.

Franks pretty face is going to be messed up.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I think this could play out to be a great fight, the big difference is Lesnar will take Mir to the ground, and it will give Mir the chance to be explosive BJJ guy and pull off a sub.

I give it to Lesnar, but I don't think he will win as easily as he did prior to the fight with Nog. Mir has put on some bulk and apparently learned how to put it in his fists.


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## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

brock is still too green to get away from his wrestling first mentality. brock cant sit on mir like he did to herring and couture, mir is too good there. brock will take mir down and probably get subbed in the first.


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

Frank's performance last night took this rematch from a fight that a lot of people didn't care about to a fight I think will be easy to promote and draw big numbers.

As for my pic, I like both guys... I've always thought Frank was good, and I still don't fully understand all the hate for Lesnar.

If I had to guess right now I would say Lesnar round 2 gnp TKO... but I may feel differently closer to the event seeing as how it will most likely be summer before it happens.


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## mma17 (Jun 4, 2007)

Mir looked really sharp last night especially with his kicks and movement. You could tell he was gaining confidence as the fight went on. He found success with that 2-5 combo and just kept pounding nog with it. 

The problem for Mir though is that IMO no matter how improved his stand up is he cannot stop the fight from going to the ground. Lesnar is too powerful and quick. So it seems to me like all of his improved stand up may be useless in his rematch with Lesnar.

I really hope Mir wins the rematch but if Lesnar works soley on submission defense for however many months he's had from his fight with Couture to his rematch with Mir he will probably ground and pound his way to a TKO before he can get subbed. I see their rematch going a lot like before except Brock not getting subbed and winning mainly due to his ridiculous size.


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

I'm putting 25k on Brock in the vBookie when it comes up. There are a few things playing into the coming fight. First Mur was trash talking, I think that is the best xMas present anyone could have possibly given Brock. He's a natural heel and this opens the door for him to talk back and not take so much heat. It also scratches on a nerve, he was upset with Herring over slights behind the scenes, this is on another level. Second Brock is NOT the same fighter he was when he manhandled Mur in their first fight before making a rookie mistake and giving up a limb. Lesnar is improving at a breakneck pace and his physical tools are uparalelled. Third Mur seems to have new found confidence in his perpetually underrated striking game. This may give him an inclination to stand with Brock which would be a HUGE mistake. As sound as Mur's striking and combinations are one thing that we have learned is that Lesnar is a dangerous skilled striker with his hands. His counterpunching is outstanding, his power is outstanding, his chin is at least good, his speed is deceptive and his angles are good. Mur will get knocked out if he decides to keep the fight on the feet. On the ground I just can't see Lesnar making the same mistake twice, one of the reasons the Herring fight just never ended is because Lesnar refused to take any risks on the ground and I definitely don't see that changing against Mur. I was really hoping for this rematch, I like both fighters alot, but I just don't see how Mur can win this fight.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Frank Mir has totally revamped his career.....wow the guy looked great he was laughing at Nog and I believe he has the skills standing to compete with Brock......:thumb02:


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

i still think brock's standup will reign supreme...he's got a big reach and packs more power than anyone in the UFC HW division...

brock also has shown he is a monster in the clinch w/ knees


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## Gee (Oct 21, 2007)

Lesnar v Nogueria possibly could of ended the same way as Nogueria v Mir did.

Lesnar would of ensured he did not take the fight to the ground where Nog is strongest and eventually one of Mir's 'cans' would of connected and took him down where mir would then jump into side control and throw down 100 of his mini hammer fists.


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## Clivey (May 28, 2007)

i know its kinda off topic but anyone got a .gif of those hammer fists he used on couture?


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

I must be the only one that thinks Nog looks and moves like an old man...the guy had a win over Tim Sylvia.....so what and Heath herring the resident "easy fight" for all new fighters.......

What about kongo...I dont think he could beat Lesner or Mir but why are people not talkin more about him.....at this point he has earned a shot........he cold beat Nog(lol)

The point really is Nog isnt that fast and to me expected to be on the ground at some point but Mir wasnt havin it.....Mir looked really good last night and I agree Brocks hands are like small walls comming at you but I believe Mir will beat him......as far s Nog...its back to the drawing board just like every other guy that loses.....:dunno:


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

I think Mir has better standup; he throws combinations that actually land, Brock doesn't, and i don't think we can say anything about Brock's chin...it simply hasn't been tested properly. 

I think they stand and trade, both give as good as they get....fight eventually goes to ground where Mir suffers under brock for a while before working for position and submitting him.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

mma17 said:


> Mir looked really sharp last night especially with his kicks and movement. You could tell he was gaining confidence as the fight went on. He found success with that 2-5 combo and just kept pounding nog with it.
> 
> The problem for Mir though is that IMO no matter how improved his stand up is he cannot stop the fight from going to the ground. Lesnar is too powerful and quick. So it seems to me like all of his improved stand up may be useless in his rematch with Lesnar.
> 
> I really hope Mir wins the rematch but if Lesnar works soley on submission defense for however many months he's had from his fight with Couture to his rematch with Mir he will probably ground and pound his way to a TKO before he can get subbed. I see their rematch going a lot like before except Brock not getting subbed and winning mainly due to his ridiculous size.


Well remember, Mi beat Lesnar on the ground in their last fight


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

Flak said:


> I think Mir has better standup; he throws combinations that actually land, Brock doesn't, and i don't think we can say anything about Brock's chin...it simply hasn't been tested properly.


Mur has much better kicks but I think Lesnars hands more than make up for the difference. I can see where someone could say Mur has more well rounded standup though, I think I would agree with that. Brocks chin though, I'm kind of on an island here but I think his chin was tested well against Couture. Randy landed some big shots (for Randy) and a VERY solid flush knee to Lesnars chin in the clinch against the fence. And when Randy cut Brock it didn't appear to affect him in any way other than to motivate him more. I agree that his chin has not faced the hardest shot out there, but that knee from Randy was more than enough to show Brocks chin is good if not more than serviceable. I'm not at all certain that Mur is the guy to really test his chin either, maybe a fight with Gonzaga or some other known heavy hitter. Herring would have been a good test if it weren't for the fact that Lesnar mauled him in the stand up and kept the fight on the ground for what seemed like 14:50. For me Lesnar's real strength in the stand up is his excellent counterpunching and the amount of damage his shots tend to inflict.


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## cezwan (Dec 7, 2007)

leslie? that is possibly the worst nickname for lesnar i have EVER heard!


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

the unknown said:


> nuthugger's like yourself wont appreciated it but every other mma watcher gets it.
> 
> watch out for those crabs!


Seriously if you don't have anything intelligent to say...


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

cplmac said:


> Mur has much better kicks but I think Lesnars hands more than make up for the difference. I can see where someone could say Mur has more well rounded standup though, I think I would agree with that. Brocks chin though, I'm kind of on an island here but I think his chin was tested well against Couture. Randy landed some big shots (for Randy) and a VERY solid flush knee to Lesnars chin in the clinch against the fence. And when Randy cut Brock it didn't appear to affect him in any way other than to motivate him more. I agree that his chin has not faced the hardest shot out there, but that knee from Randy was more than enough to show Brocks chin is good if not more than serviceable. I'm not at all certain that Mur is the guy to really test his chin either, maybe a fight with Gonzaga or some other known heavy hitter. Herring would have been a good test if it weren't for the fact that Lesnar mauled him in the stand up and kept the fight on the ground for what seemed like 14:50. For me Lesnar's real strength in the stand up is his excellent counterpunching and the amount of damage his shots tend to inflict.


You could be right, he does have a massive block of a head and no neck to speak of. Physiologically speaking, he has the makeup of a cabbage-like melon. I'd just like to see someone with good power crack him a couple of times in a row to see what it's really like.


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## Royce (Nov 10, 2008)

Mur outstrikes a washed up nog and all of a sudden some guys are makeing him to be the Anderson silva of the WH.i found that cute and ridiculuos.

im all in on Brock in Vbookie when it happens.i really wish Mur thinks he's some kind of a dangerous striker now...brock would take his head off.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Who are you?


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

Flak said:


> Who are you?


I'm Batman...


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## cezwan (Dec 7, 2007)

the unknown said:


> nuthugger's like yourself wont appreciated it but every other mma watcher gets it.
> 
> watch out for those crabs!


im suprised you have lasted this long on this forum.. haha..

i give you.. 2 more days..


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## cezwan (Dec 7, 2007)

Royce said:


> Mur outstrikes a *washed up nog* and all of a sudden some guys are makeing him to be the Anderson silva of the WH.i found that cute and ridiculuos.
> 
> im all in on Brock in Vbookie when it happens.i really wish Mur thinks he's some kind of a dangerous striker now...brock would take his head off.


thats just rude.


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## Royce (Nov 10, 2008)

the unknown said:


> Now he's washed up because he had his ass handed to him in 1 fight?
> 
> You whining s***, shut your yap.






sadly he is washed up at the top level because he looks and moves like a 45 year old.it doesnt take fron his great legacy..its just father time taking its toll.

also u got it mixed up..your unknown mum is the whining s***.


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## ramram22 (Aug 26, 2007)

I'm sure my opinion on the fight will change between now and the 8-10 months that this fight will happen, but I see brock winning everywhere.


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## cezwan (Dec 7, 2007)

Royce said:


> sadly he is washed up at the top level because he looks and moves like a 45 year old.it doesnt take fron his great legacy..its just father time taking its toll.
> 
> *also u got it mixed up..your unknown mum is the whining s***.*


that better not of been referred to me.


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## Royce (Nov 10, 2008)

cezwan said:


> thats just rude.


well ok..i guess it was a bit harsh..but lets get real.

Mur Vs prime nog..or even nog 2 years ago...do u still see Mur winning?

its sad but i never saw anyone age so fast as nog has lately.im not even talking about the fight...just look at photos from 5 years ago and now.its unbelievable..doesnt even look like himself.
i still think his career will be remembered as an amazing one like it should and i hope he stays in the MMA world as a trainer but i dont want to see him tarnishing his legacy by fighting way over his prime.


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## Biowza (May 22, 2007)




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## greenwood (Dec 1, 2008)

Red Baron said:


> mir's boxing seems to be miles ahead of what it used to be, if he can fight the way he did against nog he'll destroy brock.


I think you are right about this. He can only get better from here, and he has already fought Brock, so he will know what his training should consist of for the fight. I hope he does win this fight for sure.


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## cezwan (Dec 7, 2007)

Biowza said:


>


haha.. right click, save.

love it.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Nog vs. Ken Shamrock.......:dunno:


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

the unknown said:


> You want to talk intellect there Socrates?


You're not equipped.


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## mma17 (Jun 4, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> Well remember, Mi beat Lesnar on the ground in their last fight


Yep...he needs to get in another scramble like that if he wants to win.


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## Meshuggeth (May 26, 2008)

I want Lesnar to win. Wow, feels odd saying that.

Gonzaga or Carwin for champion!


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## urbanator (Oct 15, 2006)

It's all about the preparation that leads to the match. Frank Mir is an intelligent fighter. There was an interview in which he describes that he is always looking for the submission. Describing if one does not present itself, he immediately looked for another and so forth. To be that comfortable in executing what you know best while you are getting your head smashed in (as presented in the Lesnar v Mir I) takes years or discipline. Frank now believe he on par to his dominant self. Frank knows that he will not win in a straight up stand-up fight with Brock. So the game plan is to go for the sub first, if a GNP presents itself entertain it but then still look for a lock. Frank's stand-up against Nog will not be enough for Brock.

I see Brock strictly trying to keep this match standing up keeping the distance, otherwise go for a quick takedown and a little GNP then letting Frank reset with a stand up hoping for a tired Frank and a possible knockout blow during the stand up.


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## talongkalabasa (Dec 29, 2008)

Speaking of preparation, does any of you think that Lesnar should switch camps? I'd like to see Lesnar develop some of Couture's clinch game.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

talongkalabasa said:


> Speaking of preparation, does any of you think that Lesnar should switch camps? I'd like to see Lesnar develop some of Couture's clinch game.


he brought in some high level greco fighters to train for randy....and he beat randy in the clinch


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

He absolutely didn't beat Randy in the clinch. I found that part of the fight remarkably even considering the weight difference.


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## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

Flak said:


> He absolutely didn't beat Randy in the clinch. I found that part of the fight remarkably even considering the weight difference.


Other than the standing elbow and the knockdown punch, the knees in the clinch by Lesnar were the most significant damage of the fight.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Good knees no doubt, but i think they were inconsequential. 

I thought it was very close. Hell, Randy would have gotten him down if not for the well timed fence grab.


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## KingOfVillains (Dec 30, 2008)

Hey guys, new to the forum. Looked through the recent posts, but couldn't find any info on this.

Does anyone have any information on when and where Lesnar vs. Mir II will take place?

I am gonna' try my damnedest to get tickets to this event. I am so stoked that Mir won his bout with Nog...as this sets Mir up for his slaughter.

He may have run his mouth before and after the fight about wanting a rematch with Brock Lesnar...but Mir...and the rest of the MMA world...know that he wants no part of that man again. He got lucky because of a botched decision by the ref, this time I believe he'll have his ass handed to him on a silver platter.

I hate to say it, and I definitely don't want this to happen...but I have a feeling that Mir will be "injured" shortly before the fight which will not allow him to compete, declaring Brock the Undisputed Champion by default and they'll find some nobody for him to destroy.

I truly hope that scenario doesn't happen, as I would love nothing more than to watch Lesnar annihilate Mir in such a fashion that it makes him question ever stepping in the cage again.

Anywho...back to the original intention of this post. Anyone have any idea when this fight will take place? I'm hoping March 7th in Columbus, but not likely.


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## Judoka (Feb 23, 2007)

No idea, you could look at some rumor sites but they can obviously be unreliable. My bet is sometime around UFC 96, Lesnar is good to go and Mir can out unscathed against Nogueira with no medical suspension I don't think.

I doubt Mir will fake an injury but if he does the main event won't be put aside. They would find someone for him to fight for the title or just a normal match anyway.


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Mir wasnt afraid of him the first time and put the smackdown on him. Itsnot Mir's fault that Lesnar was still a raging noob in the sport and didnt think about shots to the back of the head. (AND THERE WAS ALOT OF THEM) The ref was right to seperate them my friend. 

Though i think Lesnar is goign to win the rematch. He jsut has to keep his legs away from Mir and dominate some GNP and avoid the back of the headshots again and he'll have the title in less than 5 minutes into the first round IMO. I wish mir would win again but I jsut dont see it happening. GOD PLEASE LET ME BE WRONG!


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## LjStronge (Aug 29, 2007)

KingOfVillains said:


> He may have run his mouth before and after the fight about wanting a rematch with Brock Lesnar...but Mir...and the rest of the MMA world...know that he wants no part of that man again. He got lucky because of a botched decision by the ref, this time I believe he'll have his ass handed to him on a silver platter.


For a start, I think Mir can take Lesnar, I really do, Mir's stand up was superbly impressive and on the ground Mir will eat Brock alive.

I'm not entirely sure what your going on about with the first fight, I presume you are refering to the ref pulling them up after Brock's punch/s to the back of the head, That IS up for debate, but what isn't, is Mir's textbook sub, that wasn't a "dodgy" ref's decision as you call it, just quality ground work.

You are obviously a Lesnar fan, fair enough, but I would much rather a long standing MMA fighter with actual skill win the belt, than a big heap of a man with speed and power in his arms.

I'm not knocking Lesner too much, but he doesn't deserve to be champ and I hope Mir takes him out.

Like Mir said, "Let's see if he can get out of the first round this time"


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## bail3yz (Apr 22, 2007)

KingOfVillains said:


> Hey guys, new to the forum. Looked through the recent posts, but couldn't find any info on this.
> 
> Does anyone have any information on when and where Lesnar vs. Mir II will take place?
> 
> ...


You can't fake injuries... you will need some sort of proof of the injury. 

Also, I doubt Mir is afraid of brock.. he openly admitted that he was nervous fighting Nog, and that he didnt know how he could possibly beat him. He welcomed a rematch with Brock. 

Lastly, if you honestly think Mir would fake an injury to avoid a fight.. you clearly know nothing about him.


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## talongkalabasa (Dec 29, 2008)

If Lesnar does develop that clinch game, would it be in time for Mir-Lesnar II? Would it be effective for Mir? What other weapons could he bring? 

Standing up he's not that polished; he doesn't throw anything wild but he's not a sloppy puncher either. He's a monster when it comes to takedowns but his ground and pound is lacking. True, he's damn strong and that compensates for some of his deficiencies but it's a shame seeing him waste that power. Submissions,no...not unless he can get a back mount and go for a rear naked choke (in that case, Mir RIP).

To digress a bit it would be cool to see him slam Mir if Mir attempts a triangle. And more importantly (this sounds stupid, I know) could Lesnar get Couture to teach him?


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## bail3yz (Apr 22, 2007)

talongkalabasa said:


> If Lesnar does develop that clinch game, would it be in time for Mir-Lesnar II? Would it be effective for Mir? What other weapons could he bring?
> 
> Standing up he's not that polished; he doesn't throw anything wild but he's not a sloppy puncher either. He's a monster when it comes to takedowns but his ground and pound is lacking. True, he's damn strong and that compensates for some of his deficiencies but it's a shame seeing him waste that power. Submissions,no...not unless he can get a back mount and go for a rear naked choke (in that case, Mir RIP).
> 
> To digress a bit it would be cool to see him slam Mir if Mir attempts a triangle. And more importantly (this sounds stupid, I know) could Lesnar get Couture to teach him?


I dont think Lesnar will be getting a RNC on anyone with those massive arms. I think Lesnars GnP is great.. He intentionally didnt use everything he could against Heath because he didnt want to take any risk.. but if he starts going donkey kong on you.. lights out.


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## LjStronge (Aug 29, 2007)

bail3yz said:


> .. but if he starts going donkey kong on you.. lights out.


I think I just pissed myself laughing, pure class


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## Bazza89 (Dec 31, 2006)

LjStronge said:


> You are obviously a Lesnar fan, fair enough, but I would much rather a long standing MMA fighter with actual skill win the belt, than a big heap of a man with speed and power in his arms.
> 
> I'm not knocking Lesner too much, but he doesn't deserve to be champ and I hope Mir takes him out.


I've always had kind of a soft spot for Mir but TBF with the shape he's came into some of his fights in he's done *way* more to disrespect the sport than Lesnar ever has.

TBH I think Brock keeps it standing/clinched against the fence until Mir gasses and then takes him down and donkey kongs a TKO. I wouldn't be too surprised if Mir pulled guard and got the sub though really. 

Meh... I don't really care about this fight TBH. I'm still depressed about Nog and if Saku and Crocop look like crap again (likely) then I think my soul's gonna shrivel up and die.:thumbsdown:


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## LjStronge (Aug 29, 2007)

Bazza89 said:


> I've always had kind of a soft spot for Mir but TBF with the shape he's came into some of his fights in he's done *way* more to disrespect the sport than Lesnar ever has.
> 
> TBH I think Brock keeps it standing/clinched against the fence until Mir gasses and then takes him down and donkey kongs a TKO. I wouldn't be too surprised if Mir pulled guard and got the sub though really.
> 
> Meh... I don't really care about this fight TBH. I'm still depressed about Nog and if Saku and Crocop look like crap again (likely) then I think my soul's gonna shrivel up and die.:thumbsdown:


I suppose I have to take into account how long I've been an MMA Fan.

There are guys who are hardcore fans who have been around for years and watched MMA in different orgs and know the fighters from old school (I presuming you are one of these) then there are the middle range fans like myself who have been watching the sport for about 4-5 years, been to 1 or 2 events and am still learning a lot about the old school fighters and past performances. 

So a lot of my opinions are based of How the fighters are like now and how they perform. Mir for example, I wasn't to aware of his performances before his crash, but caught him mainly on his very rocky comeback. Now, after seeing his performance against Nog - the man gets my respect for the way he controlled and demolished Nog.

Oh - by the way, there is a third sort of fan, the Kimbo/Lesner generation - but I'm not getting into that - I think I've gone off topic enough!


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## Judoka (Feb 23, 2007)

LjStronge said:


> I suppose I have to take into account how long I've been an MMA Fan.
> 
> There are guys who are hardcore fans who have been around for years and watched MMA in different orgs and know the fighters from old school (I presuming you are one of these) then there are the middle range fans like myself who have been watching the sport for about 4-5 years, been to 1 or 2 events and am still learning a lot about the old school fighters and past performances.
> 
> ...


I'm a hardcore fan, it sucks to see legends like Saku and Cro Cop now days. Nogueira is my favorite, if he performs like that in his next fight it could shatter my MMA experiences for a while.

Lesnar has grown on me greatly.

Mir showed good stand up but really Nog literally stood in front of him, no head movement or anything. I think Brock donkey kong's Mir to get a THO win in the second round. It is good to see Mir in good shape though.


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## Andreas Miko (May 28, 2007)

Lesnar vs Mir II will be even easier for Mir in my opinion. Lesnar will not be able to figure out all the diffrent BJJ techniques and submissions in a 6 month period. The only hope Lesnar has to knock out Mir with a punch, which could happen but I dont think it will.

I also see Mir putting on another 10-15 pounds for this fight. I see Mir coming in at fight night 265-270 pounds to nulify Lesnars weight diffrence. You will see Mir lifting weights like crazy and cut weight down before the weigh ins and then rehydrate back up to 270 pounds. I feel Mir at 270 pounds of pure muscle will make Lesnar think twice about charging him.

Mir is better in every way than Lesnar he just got man handled by a bigger man in their first fight even though he one and this will not happen again in my opinion.


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## bail3yz (Apr 22, 2007)

Andreas Miko said:


> Lesnar vs Mir II will be even easier for Mir in my opinion. Lesnar will not be able to figure out all the diffrent BJJ techniques and submissions in a 6 month period. The only hope Lesnar has to knock out Mir with a punch, which could happen but I dont think it will.
> 
> I also see Mir putting on another 10-15 pounds for this fight. I see Mir coming in at fight night *165-170 pounds *to nulify Lesnars weight diffrence. You will see Mir lifting weights like crazy and cut weight down before the weigh ins and then rehydrate back up to *170 pounds*. I feel Mir at *170 pounds* of pure muscle will make Lesnar think twice about charging him.
> 
> Mir is better in every way than Lesnar he just got man handled by a bigger man in their first fight even though he one and this will not happen again in my opinion.


What?


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## Bazza89 (Dec 31, 2006)

Andreas Miko said:


> Lesnar vs Mir II will be even easier for Mir in my opinion. Lesnar will not be able to figure out all the diffrent BJJ techniques and submissions in a 6 month period. The only hope Lesnar has to knock out Mir with a punch, which could happen but I dont think it will.
> 
> I also see Mir putting on another 10-15 pounds for this fight. I see Mir coming in at fight night *165-170 *pounds to nulify Lesnars weight diffrence. You will see Mir lifting weights like crazy and cut weight down before the weigh ins and then rehydrate back up to *170* pounds. I feel Mir at *170* pounds of pure muscle will make Lesnar think twice about charging him.
> 
> Mir is better in every way than Lesnar he just got man handled by a bigger man in their first fight even though he one and this will not happen again in my opinion.


Haha, I've heard Mir gets the winner of GSP - BJ if he beats Brock. :thumb01:

Seriously though the last thing Frank needs to do is put on 15lbs with his cardio. He's not gonna make up the strength disadvantage so if I were him I'd be focusing on cardio and standup in this fight cos I think that's where Brocks gonna keep it and Mir doesn't want to gas in 5-6 minutes like he normally does.


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## Andreas Miko (May 28, 2007)

Bazza89 said:


> Haha, I've heard Mir gets the winner of GSP - BJ if he beats Brock. :thumb01:
> 
> Seriously though the last thing Frank needs to do is put on 15lbs with his cardio. He's not gonna make up the strength disadvantage so if I were him I'd be focusing on cardio and standup in this fight cos I think that's where Brocks gonna keep it and Mir doesn't want to gas in 5-6 minutes like he normally does.


You guys are silly I typed 1 instead of 2 you know what I meant.


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## Judoka (Feb 23, 2007)

I would say he meant 270 pounds.

I don't think it would be size putting on weight.

1.Like Bazza said, with his cardio it wouldn't go down well.
2. Brock will take him down anyway, time wasted.

Like the first fight Mir will swing for the fences with no fear of being taken down. Once he is down he will try to capitalize on Brock's lack of knowledge in the ground game. Brock will go "donkey kong" while Mir looks for a submission.


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## bail3yz (Apr 22, 2007)

Judoka said:


> I would say he meant 270 pounds.
> 
> I don't think it would be size putting on weight.
> 
> ...


You shouldn't put donkey kong in quotes.. it's now official terminology for MMA when referring to Brock's GnP.


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## Judoka (Feb 23, 2007)

bail3yz said:


> You shouldn't put donkey kong in quotes.. it's now official terminology for MMA when referring to Brock's GnP.


Oh right, my mistake.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Judoka said:


> Like the first fight Mir will swing for the fences with no fear of being taken down. Once he is down he will try to capitalize on Brock's lack of knowledge in the ground game. Brock will go "donkey kong" while Mir looks for a submission.


This is exactly how i see it going too. Mir will stand and trade, not caring about the takedown.

That's a pivotal difference between fighting Mir, and every other fight Lesnar has had. Randy and Herring were both perfect matchups for Brock, because their biggest weakness was being on bottom....where Brock can pretty much put anyone. That's not the case with Mir, he doesn't mind being on his back at all.

An in shape Mir is the worst possible matchup for Lesnar. Good hands standing, with KO power (unlike randy) and an extremely good submission game.

I don't see how Mir isn't the favorite in this fight. Especially since he's already felt Brock's power and patented DK style. He'll be ready for it.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

i don't know why people are saying 'nog had no headmovement'....cuz his headmovement was identical to the 3rd Herring fight...he hasn't had good headmovement for a while....Mir just walked him down and showed no respect for Nog's slow reaction time w/ counter punches...

and those punches that Mir threw, even if they landed w/ the same force, would not KO Lesnar IMO....Brock's chin hasn't been tested w/ a guy that throws hammers, but Randy hit him flush w/ a right hand and Brock didn't even blink...I am confident Brock has a chin of granite...much better than Nog's whose been rocked in every single one of his UFC fights


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## LjStronge (Aug 29, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> i don't know why people are saying 'nog had no headmovement'....cuz his headmovement was identical to the 3rd Herring fight...he hasn't had good headmovement for a while....Mir just walked him down and showed no respect for Nog's slow reaction time w/ counter punches...
> 
> and those punches that Mir threw, even if they landed w/ the same force, would not KO Lesnar IMO....Brock's chin hasn't been tested w/ a guy that throws hammers, but Randy hit him flush w/ a right hand and Brock didn't even blink...I am confident Brock has a chin of granite...much better than Nog's whose been rocked in every single one of his UFC fights


At the same time we all saw how many punches Mir took to the head and face when Lesner DK'd him on the floor, He was smashing Mir's face in and Mir took it all.


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## Judoka (Feb 23, 2007)

LjStronge said:


> At the same time we all saw how many punches Mir took to the head and face when Lesner DK'd him on the floor, He was smashing Mir's face in and Mir took it all.


Took it all? Honestly he looked lucky to be still awake when he pulled off the submission. I could be wrong but Mir looked that way when he won.

Mir isn't roced very easily but he isn't exactly made of stone either.


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## Screwaside (Feb 11, 2008)

I honestly don't think Mir has the advantage standing like alot of people are claiming now. He was hitting a stationary target that seemed to be going with the I'll let the guy punch himself then take advantage of him when he's fatigued strategy in Big Nog. I am sorry but I am just not impressed with the first stoppage on Nog cause he looked worse then I've ever seen him. Did Mir look good? Yes. Is Mir better then I thought? Yes. Would Mir still get dropped in the stand up with Brock and quickly at that? Yes. He needs to shoot for a take down in my opinion to have any chance. Not only do I think he would lose the stand up battle but if it goes to the ground and he is not in the dominant position I believe Brock will quickly ground and pound to victory. I don't think Mir can handle Brock's strength. In the first fight Brock was greener then goose shit on a spring day and Mir pulled a lucky though veteran jj lock on an overzealous opponant. I don't see that happening this fight I see Mir being overwhelmed as he was early and the fight ending quickly. I'm not under the impression that Brock can win if Mir gets a dominant position on the ground but that being said unless there's a slip or a trip I can't see Mir gaining that position. Brock is just too strong and his MMA game overall has improved ten fold imo...


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Flak said:


> This is exactly how i see it going too. Mir will stand and trade, not caring about the takedown.
> 
> That's a pivotal difference between fighting Mir, and every other fight Lesnar has had. Randy and Herring were both perfect matchups for Brock, because their biggest weakness was being on bottom....where Brock can pretty much put anyone. That's not the case with Mir, he doesn't mind being on his back at all.
> 
> ...


 
First off...I too am def enamered with Mir and the way he looked the other night......with that said he was getting pumbled by brock all the way up till that point where he caught the ankle lock......

So its def possible that brock could tko mir.....I feel like as long as mir can survive till he finds a submission he can win....but he's gotta be able to survive the barage...if he gets caught thats it.......Mir could have easily lost the other fight....

Now having said all that Mir l;ooks better than he was when he fought Lesner the first time and now I'm sure his confidence is prob sky high.....so the conclusion for me is a great fight that i really cant wait to see......:thumb03:


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## bail3yz (Apr 22, 2007)

Judoka said:


> Took it all? Honestly he looked lucky to be still awake when he pulled off the submission. I could be wrong but Mir looked that way when he won.
> 
> Mir isn't roced very easily but he isn't exactly made of stone either.


Mir was a few hammerfirsts away from being KO'd.. he said in an interview that he started to see white, and didnt even know where brock was.


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## lpbigd4444 (Oct 1, 2008)

I was very impressed with Mir's standup but I dont think that will be possible to do against Brock because he has a bigger reach and better reflexes and he hits a lot harder than Nog. So it comes down to wrestling/donkey kong vs bjj and I think Lesnar has improved his sub defense enough to hammer his way to a 2nd round tko. Should be a great fight though because u kno they are gonna train their asses off because they want to prove they are better than each other. Brock wants to prove he can kill Mir without getting caught and Mir wants to prove he can catch him every time.


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## LjStronge (Aug 29, 2007)

bail3yz said:


> Mir was a few hammerfirsts away from being KO'd.. he said in an interview that he started to see white, and didnt even know where brock was.


But he did take it, and was defending himself and wasn't TKO'd at that point.

Was he a mess, yes
Was he getting smashed, yes
Did he survive it, yes

I'm not saying he'd take any more of it, lol, but just to withstand what was dealt is impressive enough.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Ten fold?! Really?!

Cmon, his game has improved, but i havent seen anything new from Brock since he fought Mir the first time. He has a brick of a right hand and used it all three fights, and his GnP against Randy looked identical to what it did against Mir.

I think we're going to see the rapid development of Brock slow down, mainly because up to this point he's just been learning the basics. Learning the more complicated aspects of the sport takes time, even for Brock. Luckily for Brock, when you're his size, basics will win you lots of fights....but not all of them.

It's a dangerous fight for both of them, but Mir has more ways to win.


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## Judoka (Feb 23, 2007)

LjStronge said:


> But he did take it, and was defending himself and wasn't TKO'd at that point.
> 
> Was he a mess, yes
> Was he getting smashed, yes
> ...


Barely, remember it was a minute into the fight. He will likely have to take more then he did next fight.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

at this point, i think brock is good enough on the ground to hang in Mir's guard...he's been working non stop on bjj defense from the top and contrary to popular belief, you can learn that pretty damn fast if you've got private lessons w/ a world champ in bjj, as brock does...

brock will be very tentative and will be content to land small shots w/o much posturing to avoid being swept or submitted...it might not be that exciting if it hits the ground...

their is just no comparison b/w the brock of now and the brock of then....brock came out like a wild animal and had no composure at all, wasn't thinking...he was probably gassed out at 1 minute from all the DK'ing....nonetheless, he's a whole new animal now...takes alot less chances which i think will be key if it hits the ground, got MUCH improved striking, really strong in the clinch w/ knee's, and i think his wrestling is coming back to him slowly after the long layoff of competition...


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

How many of those strikes to the back of the head were responsible for Mir being rocked though? Had Brock only landed legal punches, it might not have been so bad.

Regardless, if it goes to ground, Mir needs to get a closed high guard, and/or wrist control immediately. Brock's best chance is to flurry before Mir can assess the position. If Mir is given a chance to compose himself on the ground, Brock is in a lot of trouble.


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## Judoka (Feb 23, 2007)

Flak said:


> How many of those strikes to the back of the head were responsible for Mir being rocked though? Had Brock only landed legal punches, it might not have been so bad.
> 
> Regardless, if it goes to ground, Mir needs to get a closed high guard, and/or wrist control immediately. Brock's best chance is to flurry before Mir can assess the position. If Mir is given a chance to compose himself on the ground, Brock is in a lot of trouble.


Mir was in trouble and turned his head into Brock which is when the strikes to the back if the head happened.

True they would have done damage but he was in trouble up until then.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Yeah that could be true. I looked at it like Mir being smart though.

"man im getting hammered, turn away and buy time to sort this out, he's not allowed to hit me in the back of the head"

*dink*
*dink*
*dink*

All to the back of the head.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Flak said:


> He absolutely didn't beat Randy in the clinch. I found that part of the fight remarkably even considering the weight difference.


just addressing this point i found earlier in the thread....

brock beat randy in the clinch...randy landed a nice right hand another right hand that was more of a push punch w/ little power....brock landed really strong knee's the legs that randy admitted after the fight really hurt, several knee's to the body, and scored a takedown (which was kind of him following up from brock's shot, but brock took advantage of randy trying to throw a sloppy knee, caught it, and slammed him)


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Agree to disagree, especially since Randy should have taken brock down, but brock grabbed the cage. Doesn't matter though, Brock ended up mauling him anyway.


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

when i think about it . 
brock via brutal tko rd 1


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## Screwaside (Feb 11, 2008)

Flak said:


> Yeah that could be true. I looked at it like Mir being smart though.
> 
> "man im getting hammered, turn away and buy time to sort this out, he's not allowed to hit me in the back of the head"
> 
> ...


You look it as smart which in hindsight it probably turned out to be. I kind of look at it as cowardly. Not to say it isn't a vet move but being bashed in the face and turning you're head cause you're opponant can't hit you in the back of it does that fit the definition of intelligent defense?


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Not if that's all you do. You can't turn away for more than a couple of seconds before the ref stops it. We will never know if Mir was done, or if he was about to improve him position somehow. 

The bottom line is that Mir turned away to avoid getting punched in the face, and Brock didn't have the presence of mind to stay within the rules, so the ref did his job and penalized the infraction. If Brock actually had some technique about his GnP, he would have paused, adjusted, and continued the onslaught. This would have either won him the fight, or created a possible opening for Mir to improve, or get some kind of head/wrist control. 

It's very cut and dry to me. People try and twist this one around a lot....but it's really very simple. Brock broke the rules, and it ended up costing him the fight.


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## NATAS (Jun 30, 2008)

Mir has now earned my respect, he looked to be in good shape, his striking looked better and I never questioned his ground game. Lesner has also earned my respect and is trying to be exciting but i want to see him loose because i dont feel he deserved that title shot so soon.

After all MIR has been through i want him to win and have a glory day


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## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

I was really impressed with Mir's stand up game. Unless Brock comes out wild for a takedown right off the bat, I can see him eating some combos. His stand up coach seems to have instilled some good technique into Mir's game and it showed against Nog. Obviously he can't just stand in front of Lesnar and trade, some quick shots while moving in and out will probably confuse Lesnar and frustrate him (Ala Machida). Brock will just take him down and get subbed.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

That's an interesting point.

How does Brock respond to being frustrated? Does he revert back to bullrushing his opponent and trying to take them down? Brock hits hard, but Mir landed some interesting shots and combinations.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

It is funny to think this, but Mir may be the first person to get to test Brock's chin. We will see how well he can take a punch from someone with power. I doubt he is going to have much head movement, so I actually expect him to use his punches to setup takedowns after eating a couple from Mir.

I am seriously starting to think that Mir has the advantage over Lesnar. Although Mir did eat a couple of Nog's punches, if he eats any of Lesnar's it could be over.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Not for nothin but mir's head kicks looked super crisp too...i loved the combo's and agree that he prob will look to try to box Brock up in the first couple mins....


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## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

Flak said:


> Agree to disagree, especially since Randy should have taken brock down, but brock grabbed the cage. Doesn't matter though, Brock ended up mauling him anyway.


If Brock grabbed the cage at all it was barely a grab and was after the takedown attempt. During the time when Randy was trying to lift Brock, Brock just pushed off the cage which is perfectly legal.


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## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

TeamNogpwns said:


> I was really impressed with Mir's stand up game. Unless Brock comes out wild for a takedown right off the bat, I can see him eating some combos. His stand up coach seems to have instilled some good technique into Mir's game and it showed against Nog. Obviously he can't just stand in front of Lesnar and trade, some quick shots while moving in and out will probably confuse Lesnar and frustrate him (Ala Machida). Brock will just take him down and get subbed.


I don't think Mir will be able to move in and out against Lesnar. Lesnar has a longer reach and is faster than Mir.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

I think it would be great if Mir knocked him cold.

Now, i know that Brock has improved, and he DID beat Randy fair n square....but i just don't think he deserves to be the champ.

Mir was the champ, had a horriffic accident, got stripped, came back to get his arse kicked and basically found out how far behind the game he was, and has worked his arse off ever since. 

Mir deserves to be the undisputed champ....he's had a hard road with everyone doubting him at every turn. Brock doesn't. He got a shot because he was famous. 

Sorry Brock fans, it's just how i feel.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

leifdawg said:


> I don't think Mir will be able to move in and out against Lesnar. Lesnar has a longer reach and is faster than Mir.


 
What are both of their reaches????:confused02:


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## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

I agree that Lesnar appears to have the reach advantage, but Mir showed the ability to use kicks in his combos. I'm not saying Mir is somehow an elite striker, but if can mix things up I think he will land significantly more than Lesnar on the feet. However, if he doesn't move around he will get caught and rocked by Lesnar's huge fists.


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## KingOfVillains (Dec 30, 2008)

As for Mir possibly putting on weight...that would be extremely stupid of him. He relies on a bit of quickness for his size. If Mir shows up even 10 lbs. heavier, Brock's gonna' have an even easier time.

I believe in this fight, regardless of what you diehard submission and tactical fans want, you're gonna' witness first hand that untapped amounts of power and speed will beat the piss out of technique sometimes.

The first Lesnar vs. Mir match wasn't right with the stop/standup in my opinion. This time, however, I think Brock trains harder for the submission game and works even harder at his striking.

Face facts people...in the first fight Lesnar was man-handling and Donkey Kong'ing (love this term by the way) the hell outta' Mir. There are 10 seconds of that match that I bet Mir doesn't even remember because his brains were getting scrambled.

Be that as it may, I can't wait for this rematch to take place so all of the Brock haters and Mir nuthuggers get shut up.

And rest assured, I'll still be around to eat my crow should Mir pull out another victory.

Lesnar is a whole new breed the likes of which have never been seen in UFC. He's going to learn the BJJ game the more time passes and become even more dangerous. I'm looking forward to great things from him.


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## talongkalabasa (Dec 29, 2008)

KingOfVillains said:


> As for Mir possibly putting on weight...that would be extremely stupid of him. He relies on a bit of quickness for his size. If Mir shows up even 10 lbs. heavier, Brock's gonna' have an even easier time.
> 
> I believe in this fight, regardless of what you diehard submission and tactical fans want, you're gonna' witness first hand that untapped amounts of power and speed will beat the piss out of technique sometimes.
> 
> ...


I don't really believe that Lesnar's really part of "the new breed", since I don't believe there's "a new breed", just talented fighters coming in to the organization.

That being said, I believe that Lesnar does have potential and as I've said before if he polishes up his standup and GNP and hopefully learns to utilize the clinch he's going to be one dominant dude.

BTW has anyone ever noticed that his legs are kinda thin for his height? I mean I have thicker legs than him for my height. 

And if he could switch camps,where would you people put him?


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## bail3yz (Apr 22, 2007)

leifdawg said:


> I don't think Mir will be able to move in and out against Lesnar. Lesnar has a longer reach and is faster than Mir.



Lesnar's reach is kind of deceiving isnt it? 
Its because his torso is so huge.. and they measure wingspan. I don't actually think his arms are that long.


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## Bazza89 (Dec 31, 2006)

talongkalabasa said:


> I don't really believe that Lesnar's really part of "the new breed", since I don't believe there's "a new breed", just talented fighters coming in to the organization.
> 
> That being said, I believe that Lesnar does have potential and as I've said before if he polishes up his standup and GNP and hopefully learns to utilize the clinch he's going to be one dominant dude.
> 
> ...


I don't see why he would switch camps TBH. Doesn't he train at the same place as Sherk cos that's perfect for him if I'm right.

Tito's got some skinny legs on him aswell, I remember on TUF him joking about thats how he made 205.


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## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

The problem for Frank now is that Brock has seen what he can do in the standup. Poor Nog just had this look on his face like "this isnt what i saw on the tapes".


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

what should scare brock fans like myself is, if his striking got that much better, what else got that much better? :confused05:


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Hellboy said:


> The problem for Frank now is that Brock has seen what he can do in the standup. Poor Nog just had this look on his face like "this isnt what i saw on the tapes".


How do you think thats a problem...either way Franks stand-up was noticably improved, how do you know that Brock wasnt intimidated....:dunno:



Aaronyman said:


> what should scare brock fans like myself is, if his striking got that much better, what else got that much better? :confused05:


What else needs to really?? I mean the way this fight between Mir and Brock is gonna go down is ding ding.... stand-up exchanges, striking and personally I see Mir doing better also remember he knows what is commin at him now.....as for Brock i expect him to exchange with Mir and if his dumb ass tries to take Mir down i see Mir totally letting him and immediatly lookin for a sub......

Basically like deja vu........except the stand-up exchanges could determin this fight.....maybe Brock doesnt try to take it to the ground but instead comes with a gameplan similar to Bisbing'sagainst Leben.....elusive striking that frustrates Mir.....we'll see:thumb02:


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

While I'm really happy to see Mur finally getting some love around here, it's surprising to read some of what I'm seeing. His standup has been pretty solid for a while, it didn't go supernova overnight and Nog was moving very slowly which did a lot to make Mur look fast. Either way I don't see it helping him against Lesnar. It's not just Lesnar's size as the stubborn contingent of die hard Lesnar haters would have you believe, he's explosive, accurate and extremely powerful. His striking is better than Mur's, and I think he's going to prove that. It might not be as well rounded but his counterstriking, standing elbows and Thai clinch/knees are so much farther ahead of what they should be for a three year fighter. On the ground yes Mur is second only to Nog, BUT there is no way he can sub Brock again. Assuming Brock takes it to the ground (he may decide to just punish Mur standing for 5 rounds, it's not like Mur can take Brock down) he will follow the script of his first two UFC fights. His base on the ground is second to none, you aren't sweeping Lesnar, his DK is second to none, his ability to power out of subs is second to none. The only thing that is a ? is whether or not the 6 months of intensive jitz training leading up to this fight has taught him to recognize a dangerous position or how to avoid walking into a sub. I'm so excited for this fight, I like both these guys a lot. WAR LESMUR


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

cplmac said:


> While I'm really happy to see Mur finally getting some love around here, it's surprising to read some of what I'm seeing. His standup has been pretty solid for a while, it didn't go supernova overnight and Nog was moving very slowly which did a lot to make Mur look fast. Either way I don't see it helping him against Lesnar. It's not just Lesnar's size as the stubborn contingent of die hard Lesnar haters would have you believe, he's explosive, accurate and extremely powerful. His striking is better than Mur's, and I think he's going to prove that. It might not be as well rounded but his counterstriking, standing elbows and Thai clinch/knees are so much farther ahead of what they should be for a three year fighter. On the ground yes Mur is second only to Nog, *BUT there is no way he can sub Brock again*. Assuming Brock takes it to the ground (he may decide to just punish Mur standing for 5 rounds, it's not like Mur can take Brock down) he will follow the script of his first two UFC fights. His base on the ground is second to none, you aren't sweeping Lesnar, his DK is second to none, his ability to power out of subs is second to none. The only thing that is a ? is whether or not the 6 months of intensive jitz training leading up to this fight has taught him to recognize a dangerous position or how to avoid walking into a sub. I'm so excited for this fight, I like both these guys a lot. WAR LESMUR


well i don't agree with that at all....i think brock will use tight top positioning and very conservative GnP to nullifying Mir's guard this time...he won't freak out like last time....but even with that, Mir could catch him in a transition


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

I don't think that Lesnar will take the fight to the ground at all. I think he'll put Mir into the fence and use dirty boxing and knees. This minimizes his risk of getting KO'd as well as submitted. Personally I don't know if I'd be more afraid of Lesnar's overhand right or his knees.


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## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

Sounds alot like what Randy does but with alot more power. I still think Mir's best shot is to implement some sort of Machida offense where he is elusive enough to frustrate Lesnar and hope he shoots in and takes him to the mat where he takes an arm, leg, or chokes his big dumb a$$ out.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Quick question for you guys, a friend I were joking and then seriously thought about it......would a triangle choke be useful on Lesnar or is he actually too big for it to affect him?

We were discussing what types of subs that Mir is probably practicing to use on Lesnar once he goes for a takedown. Even an armbar may be hard for Mir to pull off if Lesnar is holding his arm (assuming he isn't gassed or anything that would lessen his strength).


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## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

No he's not too big to get his bloodflow cut off from a triangle. BJJ is all about leverage and Mir is quick enough to catch an arm and hyperextend it before Lesnar can effectively defend it. Mir isn't a chump at BJJ and if brock defends the armbar with strength, he can just switch to the Omoplata, or look for other subs that will open up.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

TeamNogpwns said:


> No he's not too big to get his bloodflow cut off from a triangle. BJJ is all about leverage and Mir is quick enough to catch an arm and hyperextend it before Lesnar can effectively defend it. Mir isn't a chump at BJJ and if brock defends the armbar with strength, he can just switch to the Omoplata, or look for other subs that will open up.


By no means was I trying to insult Mir, so please do not take it that way. I was just actually curious if Lesnar's neck/shoulder muscle size prevented the choke from working (you state it still will still work) and I was more referring to a slow arm bar instead of a burst one (which Mir is more known for).


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## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

I don't really like Mir anyway so no worries. It's unlikely that he will catch brock in a triangle because brock could stack his guard and pass with his strength if he's learned enough defense to avoid getting his arm trapped. I see him getting an armbar or another footlock if he can sub him at all. He's been working the Rubber guard with Drysdale so I would be excited to see the fight once it hits the ground.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

With Lesnar's poor techniques in takedowns I think Mir has a good shot at a Peruvian necktie and maybe, maybe a guillotine. Another option is a heel hooks, toe holds, and knee bars again. I don't see Lesnar giving up anthing that requires a foot to pass the ear. I also don't see Mir getting top position ever in that fight. Short arm-bar is another option.


** Edit**

If Lesnar wanted to really cause a stink I could see him getting side control and working the short-arm bar on Mir the way Hughes attempted on Royce. Submitting Mir would be a feather in his cap.


----------



## stitch1z (Dec 9, 2007)

I don't know who to pick in this one. Mir won by the skin of his teeth against a much greener Brock. He was a few seconds from finished IMO in that fight and it was early in the first round.

But now we have a new and improved Mir coming off of a HUGE victory. Mir looked hella good but he has to come in with a great gameplan and execute it to perfection.

Standing up, Brock has the edge, just because he can knock you down or out at any point in the fight. But with the previous loss in Brock's head, I don't see him letting the fight get get to the ground if he can help it.

Mir has a pretty crazy guard so he might be able to slap something on again if Brock pounces him. But Mir couldn't get Lesnar in an armbar. His size definitely gave Mir trouble before.

But both Brock and Mir have vastly improved facets of their game. A lot of unanswered questions about both guys going into this match. No safe bet here.


----------



## OsborneMcCarty (Aug 26, 2008)

Mir vs. Lesnar is a tough call.

I was at UFC 92 and was surprised MORE by how BAD Nog fought then I was about how GOOD Mir fought. Mir's striking was definately better but you have to admit Nog was pushing forward and giving him his chin on a silver platter. That's either a poor game plan on Nog's part or just his age starting to show more than ever.

For me the jury is still out on Mir vs. Lesnar. One's things for sure...Mir has his hands full.


----------



## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

What you're saying makes alot of sense, but I still think Mir can take an arm. I don't care for Mir because of the way he comes accross but I have alot of respect for his BJJ game. I don't care how big and strong Lesnar is, Mir can end the fight with any submission in the book if there is an opening. I think the first fight goes to prove this point even though Lesnar really had no defense at that time.


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## BlitzGT (Aug 16, 2008)

Fieos said:


> If Lesnar wanted to really cause a stink I could see him getting side control and working the short-arm bar on Mir the way Hughes attempted on Royce. Submitting Mir would be a feather in his cap.


This message board would explode if Lesnar submitted Mir with something other than a RNC or guillotine.

I just want to see Mir go for a triangle or armbar and get slammed by Lesnar.


----------



## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

I'm rooting for Mir by KO. Just because nobody has hit Lesnar all that hard and just because I f***ing would hate to see Lesnar actually win this fight. And because it would be great to see Brock get laid out by Mir instead of submitted.


----------



## dafunguru (Dec 3, 2008)

Mir catches Lesnar during a takedown and wins by Kimura.


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## Fedornumber1! (Jun 18, 2008)

I love Brocks accuracy

It scared me when he landed that brutal hammerfist in round 2!


----------



## Cheef_Reef (Jul 20, 2008)

Mir would get destroyed in stand up against Brock.. outstriking someone who stands still is not hard, don't mistake the Nog fight for something spectacular. If the fight stays standing Brock will murder him.. Mir's only chance is to win by submission, but Brock has shown he has great ground control and if he works a lot on his sub defense I give Mir a very slim chance to win.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Oh ffs! Lesnar's striking isn't that good people! He has a nice right hand, but that's all we've seen.

It's even standing up, and a slight edge to Mir on the ground. It's going to be a very tough fight for both men, and anyone that actually thinks they know the outcome is full of shit.


----------



## talongkalabasa (Dec 29, 2008)

I wonder when's the fight going to be held? I'm betting sometime in the first half of the year and I wouldn't be surprised if we see a lot of fighters make their UFC debut there.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Flak said:


> Oh ffs! Lesnar's striking isn't that good people! He has a nice right hand, but that's all we've seen.
> 
> It's even standing up, and a slight edge to Mir on the ground. It's going to be a very tough fight for both men, and anyone that actually thinks they know the outcome is full of shit.


So your saying Dana is full of shit..........:confused02: Kidding..well he is full of shit but he doesnt know outcomes.......


----------



## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Oh Dana's always full of shit. Sometimes that shit is good stuff though :laugh:


----------



## BlitzGT (Aug 16, 2008)

Im hoping this fight is in April or May. Cannot wait damnit.


----------



## limitufc (Oct 3, 2008)

Brock is a massive sized wrestler. Expect him to take Frank down at will.


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## Villian (Jul 23, 2008)

limitufc said:


> Brock is a massive sized wrestler. Expect him to take Frank down at will.


....and Mir will promptly submit him :thumb02:


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## BlitzGT (Aug 16, 2008)

limitufc said:


> Brock is a massive sized wrestler. Expect him to take Frank down at will.


First match it took like 5 seconds and Frank was already upside down heading towards the ground.


----------



## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

..and Mir promptly submitted him




Mir takes it IMO. He moves better on his feet and I'm sure he saw coutures fight. He knows all he has to do is dance around Lesnar for a round or two and maybe feed him a few shots and Lesnar will gas. Also, Franks hands seem much faster than Lesnar's. Lesnar hits hard but his punches come slow. I think mir frustrates Lesnar standing, Lesnar shoots, Mir slips it and takes his back and promptly chokes him or gets an armbar.





Or he wins by flying gogoplata.


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## BlitzGT (Aug 16, 2008)

TraMaI said:


> ..and Mir promptly submitted him.


I know he subbed him. I was just stating that he already took Frank down at will.


----------



## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

Here we go agian every time brock fights its the same crap this guy is more skilled, brock wont stand a chance blah blah blah...whats a guy have to do to get a little credit.

Lesnar wins via tko round 1


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## wolfbot (Oct 5, 2008)

I have a hard time seeing this getting out of the second round. Brock by TKO. As far as Brock's striking, here are the results:

1. *Mir*: knocked down after the first punch; Mir admits he was seeing flashes of white light after being the recipient of Brock's strikes.

2. *Herring*: broken orbital bone (first punch).

3. *Couture*: one punch knockout, but rocked earlier by a big right elbow.

This does not take into account Brock's vicious knee strikes. His fists, elbows and knees are all enough to end a fight in and of themselves; but in combination--let's just say Mir is in a lot of trouble.

I don't see Brock attempting ground 'n pound. He learned his lesson right after the first Mir fight: "I shoulda kept it standing."


----------



## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

TraMaI said:


> ..and Mir promptly submitted him
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you have it in reverse there. It's Mir's strikes that looks slow. 

Also Mir was breathing very hard after only 1 round of basically hitting a standing target. Brock was breathing hard after a hard a fought round against a guy who is known to push you too your limit.

Also, if your thinking Brock is going to gas before Mir, I think your crazy. One guy is known as a cardio freak and the other has serious questions in that department. Guess which one is which.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

leifdawg said:


> I think you have it in reverse there. It's Mir's strikes that looks slow.
> 
> Also Mir was breathing very hard after only 1 round of basically hitting a standing target. Brock was breathing hard after a hard a fought round against a guy who is known to push you too your limit.
> 
> Also, if your thinking Brock is going to gas before Mir, I think your crazy. One guy is known as a cardio freak and the other has serious questions in that department. Guess which one is which.


WoW.....speechless......Are you implying Brock is known as a cardio freak??:dunno:


----------



## BlitzGT (Aug 16, 2008)

coldcall420 said:


> WoW.....speechless......Are you implying Brock is known as a cardio freak??:dunno:


It is well known that he is well conditioned from his days as a collegiate wrestler. Also if you saw his cardio training, its insane.

I still think if Mur has to work, he will gas by the end of the first round. As stated above, he was breathing heavy hitting an almost stationary target.


----------



## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

BlitzGT said:


> It is well known that he is well conditioned from his days as a collegiate wrestler. Also if you saw his cardio training, its insane.
> 
> I still think if Mur has to work, he will gas by the end of the first round. As stated above, he was breathing heavy hitting an almost stationary target.


I have to completely dissagree...respectfully of course.....

Brock wrestled many yrs ago any legacy from back then is just that....back then

Truthfully we havent even see Brock go too far into a fight so you have no fact to base that on......Mir def isnt a guy with a cardio pedigree but still there is hope there for me at least.....the hope comes from the same place that the improved striking came from.....hopefully he worked as hard at his cardio....we'll see......

This was def the first I have ever heard of Brock being referred to as some one that has insane cardio........???? Did you read that somewhere??? Link??


----------



## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

coldcall420 said:


> WoW.....speechless......Are you implying Brock is known as a cardio freak??:dunno:


Yes, I am. I'm a Big10 guy so I've been following Brock for a while now. The guy always looked great in wrestling, both amateur and pro. And yes I know pro-wrestling is fake, but it still requires good cardio. When he was with the Vikings his position coach said he had unreal cardio. And everyone at his current camp (same camp as Sherk, another cardio freak) says he has a great work ethic and works his cardio constantly.


----------



## SonofJor-El (Jan 20, 2008)

I'm reading a lot of posts talking about how Brock is not going to want to take this fight to the ground. I humbly disagree. Go back and watch Lesnar/Mir I; Brock was dominating the fight on the ground. 

When both fighters were on the ground, every sub that Mir threw up was stuffed and Mir was getting mauled. The illegal blow may haved literally saved Mir's life. Brock won't repeat that mistake.

The only reason Mir caught Lesnar in the knee bar was because Lesnar STOOD UP out of Mir's guard. When they were BOTH ON THE GROUND, Mir was a helpless toy in Lesnar's hands. Had Lesnar stayed on the ground and worked GnP while trying to pass the guard, Mir would have ended up the same way Herring did.

I see Brock leaning on Mir from either in Mir's guard or in the clinch and tiring him out. Brock will either get a late 2nd/early 3rd round TKO or win a UD.


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

I still believe Brock is all hype at this point. Mir wasn't expecting Lesnar to bullrush him like that, now that both fighters have changed, Mir will win. Mir will respect his power and his explosiveness. On the ground, Mir will submit him ten times out of ten. Standing, Lesnar does have a good chance at knocking him out, but I think Mir will stay away, and put together good combinations when he needs to. I don't see this going to a decision as both fighters have horrible cardio and wont make it five rounds, but tiring out is worse for Lesnar at this point because of Mir's submissions.


----------



## valvetronix (Feb 3, 2008)

Terror Kovenant said:


> I still believe Brock is all hype at this point. Mir wasn't expecting Lesnar to bullrush him like that, now that both fighters have changed, Mir will win. Mir will respect his power and his explosiveness. On the ground, Mir will submit him ten times out of ten. Standing, Lesnar does have a good chance at knocking him out, but I think Mir will stay away, and put together good combinations when he needs to. I don't see this going to a decision as both fighters have horrible cardio and wont make it five rounds, but tiring out is worse for Lesnar at this point because of Mir's submissions.


Anyone else find this post excitedly dumb?


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

valvetronix said:


> Anyone else find this post excitedly dumb?


How about instead of making generalize comments like that, you point out what you found dumb in my post and put together a counterpoint?


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## valvetronix (Feb 3, 2008)

Oh boy.... What I found dumb.....






Terror Kovenant said:


> I still believe Brock is all hype at this point.


Brock has a dominant win over Heath Herring a very good, close to Top 10 heavy weight.

Brock has a TKO win over Randy Couture a very respected, and Top 10, if not 5 heavy weight.



Terror Kovenant said:


> Mir wasn't expecting Lesnar to bullrush him like that


If I remember correctly Mir stated in pre-fight interviews that he absolutley expected him to do this. I can do abit of research if you would like me too on this matter.



Terror Kovenant said:


> Lesnar does have a good chance at knocking him out, but I think Mir will stay away


Wasnt going to include this, but I will. I understand this is your opinion. I will just ask you. What in Frank Mir's history makes you beleive this? (Please include fight name i.e. Mir vs Vera, round number, and time in round).



Terror Kovenant said:


> On the ground, Mir will submit him ten times out of ten.


I have not trained BJJ half as long as Frank has, but I will go ahead and say this is absolutley false. I also would bet that any BJJ trainee on this forum will agree with me. This is based on my knowledge of BJJ, Lesnar's training, the pace that he _seems_ to learn new training, his ability to escape _3_ (I will need to watch again for an exact number) sub attempts by Mir, and his overall physical prowess.



Terror Kovenant said:


> I don't see this going to a decision as both fighters have horrible cardio and wont make it five rounds


On what basis do you make this for Lesnar? I agree with you that Mir has had very bad cardio, but it looked much improved in the Nog fight, of course we didnt see a 5 round war.

Brock has been training for most of his life, and specifically said he went into the Randy fight with mostly cardio training.

Have you seen his All Access? He has a very similiar workout to Sean Sherk (They train at the same place... atleast for the Mir/Herring fights). Sean Sherk is one, if not the best cardio machines in all of MMA -- just incase you didnt know.









Terror Kovenant said:


> How about instead of making generalize comments like that, you point out what you found dumb in my post and put together a counterpoint?


Ask and you shall receive.


----------



## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

TERMINATOR said:


> Here we go agian every time brock fights its the same crap this guy is more skilled, brock wont stand a chance blah blah blah...whats a guy have to do to get a little credit.


Beat a guy who knows Jujitsu.


----------



## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

valvetronix said:


> Brock has a dominant win over Heath Herring a very good, close to Top 10 heavy weight.


Other than a big right hand, Brock really didn't do much, he used his wrestling to keep him pinned down and he looked confused on how to finish the fight. Also, Herring isn't really that good in my opinion.



> Brock has a TKO win over Randy Couture a very respected, and Top 10, if not 5 heavy weight.


Size and strength won this fight, not ability. Brock is a very accomplished wrestler and with that he should have been able to control a lot more than he did, but Couture got out from under him and almost took him down, but Brock grabbed the fence. He landed what seemed to be lucky. 




> If I remember correctly Mir stated in pre-fight interviews that he absolutley expected him to do this. I can do abit of research if you would like me too on this matter.


I'll look it up, but if I am wrong then I will humbly accept that. Still though, it is pretty hard to expect a bullrush of that magnitude. 



> Wasnt going to include this, but I will. I understand this is your opinion. I will just ask you. What in Frank Mir's history makes you beleive this? (Please include fight name i.e. Mir vs Vera, round number, and time in round).


Nothing in his history. Its purely speculation on my part. I really feel that Mir is FINALLY starting to take his career seriously. I just think hes going to be a lot smarter against Brock. 





> I have not trained BJJ half as long as Frank has, but I will go ahead and say this is absolutley false. I also would bet that any BJJ trainee on this forum will agree with me. This is based on my knowledge of BJJ, Lesnar's training, the pace that he _seems_ to learn new training, his ability to escape _3_ (I will need to watch again for an exact number) sub attempts by Mir, and his overall physical prowess.


Well why would you say its false? Mir isn't as good as throwing submissions while hes rocked as say... Nog, but he still has the experience to submit a green Brock. 



> On what basis do you make this for Lesnar? I agree with you that Mir has had very bad cardio, but it looked much improved in the Nog fight, of course we didnt see a 5 round war.
> 
> Brock has been training for most of his life, and specifically said he went into the Randy fight with mostly cardio training.
> 
> Have you seen his All Access? He has a very similiar workout to Sean Sherk (They train at the same place... atleast for the Mir/Herring fights). Sean Sherk is one, if not the best cardio machines in all of MMA -- just incase you didnt know.





And Brock was visible winded during the fight. Couture took a lot of out of him. Being as huge as Brock is, it takes an extreme amount of cardiovascular strength to pump oxygen to all of his muscles. I wasn't impressed at all with how quickly he gassed. Mir's lack of cardio has been obvious for a long time though.


----------



## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

Terror Kovenant said:


> I still believe Brock is all hype at this point. Mir wasn't expecting Lesnar to bullrush him like that,


You mean Mir wasn't expecting the wrestling champion to take him down early on in the fight ? :confused02:


----------



## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

why would a wrestler take down a good jitz guy with great bottom game ?


----------



## bail3yz (Apr 22, 2007)

Hellboy said:


> You mean Mir wasn't expecting the wrestling champion to take him down early on in the fight ? :confused02:


Ya.. generally when a wrestler with very poor BJJ is fighting a guy with very good BJJ that wins most his fights via sub.. the wrestler uses his wrestling to keep the fight standing.

Perfect example is Bader vs Vinny


----------



## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

dontazo said:


> why would a wrestler take down a good jitz guy with great bottom game ?


So what were your thoughts leading into the fight ? That Lesnar was going to stand for 3 rounds ?


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## bail3yz (Apr 22, 2007)

Hellboy said:


> So what were your thoughts leading into the fight ? That Lesnar was going to stand for 3 rounds ?


If he did, he likely would have won.


----------



## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

bail3yz said:


> If he did, he likely would have won.


That's not the question. 

The question was what were people expecting Lesnar to do in the fight.


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## bail3yz (Apr 22, 2007)

Hellboy said:


> That's not the question.
> 
> The question was what were people expecting Lesnar to do in the fight.


No one expected him to stand for 3 rounds, but waiting for the proper time for the takedown and bullrushing early are completely different. 

You changed your question from:
"You mean Mir wasn't expecting the wrestling champion to take him down early on in the fight ?"

To:
"So what were your thoughts leading into the fight ? That Lesnar was going to stand for 3 rounds ?"

Eventually getting a take down, would have been fine.. but doing it at the very start against a fresh frank mir? Thats stupid. Obviously we expected Brock to eventually take it to the ground.. but in the first minute is very very dumb.


----------



## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

bail3yz said:


> No one expected him to stand for 3 rounds, but waiting for the proper time for the takedown and bullrushing early are completely different.
> 
> You changed your question from:
> "You mean Mir wasn't expecting the wrestling champion to take him down early on in the fight ?"
> ...


Well Brock is dumb lol.


----------



## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

Lesnar sweats a LOT and sweats fast, he can take people down earlier than most without worrying about the dry submission.


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## Fedornumber1! (Jun 18, 2008)

cplmac said:


> Lesnar sweats a LOT and sweats fast, he can take people down earlier than most without worrying about the dry submission.


I think he said in that all acces of his one time that he's able to sweat off 10 pounds without having t do any serious cutting


----------



## valvetronix (Feb 3, 2008)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Other than a big right hand, Brock really didn't do much, he used his wrestling to keep him pinned down and he looked confused on how to finish the fight. Also, Herring isn't really that good in my opinion.


Lesnar and the rest of his camp have said that they intended to do this. Lesnar gained solid experience, octago time, and confidence.

FYI: Herring has wins over... 

Evan Tanner
Sultanmagomedov
Sean McCully
Enson Inoue
Mark Kerr
Vovchanchyn
Yamamoto
Takahashi
Gary Goodridge
Chieck Kongo

If you still considering him to be 'not that good' there is nothing I can do.





Terror Kovenant said:


> Size and strength won this fight, not ability. Brock is a very accomplished wrestler and with that he should have been able to control a lot more than he did, but Couture got out from under him and almost took him down, but Brock grabbed the fence. He landed what seemed to be lucky.


I have broken the fight down before. Lesnar was the first to land, in the first exchange... Couture missed entirely.

Lesnar for all intensive purposes won the clinch game. He dealt more damage, and spent far less energy (Again, said to be in the gameplan, to let Couture tire himself)... If you watch the fight Lesnar is quite obviously not fighting to get off the fence.

The one time Lesnar in my mind was aided most by his size was when Randy TRIED to take Lesnar's back. When he was not able to, Lesnar grabbed his leg, and tripped Randy's other leg out from under him.

If Randy had performed the same move to Lesnar, there would be GIFs of it, and proclamations of the awesomeness of Randy Couture.

I am guessing the last sentence is about a lucky punch. The punch that dropped Randy was a punch Lesnar threw throughout the fight. It was no more lucky than the combination that dropped Nog, or any other MMA fight that ended from a knock down. :confused03: Heavyweights have one punch knock out power. Randy happened to not land any punches that knocked Lesnar down. Lesnar did land a punch that knocked Randy down (He has in every fight)

In other words, it was not luck.





Terror Kovenant said:


> Nothing in his history. Its purely speculation on my part. I really feel that Mir is FINALLY starting to take his career seriously. I just think hes going to be a lot smarter against Brock.


I agree.





Terror Kovenant said:


> Well why would you say its false? Mir isn't as good as throwing submissions while hes rocked as say... Nog, but he still has the experience to submit a green Brock.


Mir threw 4 subs at Brock in their first fight, 1 caught him. That is a 25% success rate.

10 times out of 10 is a 100% success rate.... 25% not equal to 100%

It just does NOT work that way.








Terror Kovenant said:


> And Brock was visible winded during the fight. Couture took a lot of out of him. Being as huge as Brock is, it takes an extreme amount of cardiovascular strength to pump oxygen to all of his muscles. I wasn't impressed at all with how quickly he gassed. Mir's lack of cardio has been obvious for a long time though.


What makes you think Lesnar was gassed? Was it...

that he kept his hands up?
that he resisted take downs?
that he was able to push the greco-roman master into the fence?
that he landed a big right to finish the fight?
that he threw ~30 hammerfists in the span of about 10 seconds to finish the fight?
that he walked around the octagon, and hoisted himself up without breathing hard?

Or...

that Joe Roegan is a HUGE Randy Couture fan. He WANTED Lesnar to be gased, but he is Joe... what he says is the law to many UFC fans.

Gassed fighters do not throw that much leather in such a short amount of time. I have fought gassed, at 155lbs... and there is no way I (gassed) could have thrown the hammerfist that Lesnar did to stop the fight.

Rewatch the fight. Lesnar was breathing normal after the first round for a fairly active heavyweight round.


----------



## KingOfVillains (Dec 30, 2008)

valvetronix said:


> What makes you think Lesnar was gassed? Was it...
> 
> that he kept his hands up?
> that he resisted take downs?
> ...


Finally! Someone who tells it outright! I have said the same thing to many "fight fans" over the course of the past month, and for some reason, they just don't get that Lesnar is the REAL DEAL!

Mir...Brock's gonna' KILL YOU! DONKEY KONG STYLE! This fight is gonna' take forever to get here!


----------



## BlitzGT (Aug 16, 2008)

Everybody does go off what Rogan says. My god, when Randy almost put Brock on his back, Joe Rogan popped his load all over himself.


----------



## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

I think what everone is talking about is the fact that after the hammerfists he looked like he was going to have a heartattack. Either you like this guy or hate him, there are only the two options.


----------



## BlitzGT (Aug 16, 2008)

That doesnt look like a fighter about to have a heart attack.

People before this fight said hammerfists were also useless too.


----------



## valvetronix (Feb 3, 2008)

BlitzGT said:


> That doesnt look like a fighter about to have a heart attack.
> 
> People before this fight said hammerfists were also useless too.


The big thing I was talking about is that... The GnP is NOT GnP from a gassed fighter.

Joe Roegan was wrong in his idea that Lesnar was gassed.


----------



## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Are you kidding me? After that effort the dude was huffing and puffing like crazy. 

It wasn't the hammerfists either, it was the straight punches that he finally remembered about that did the real damage.


----------



## valvetronix (Feb 3, 2008)

Flak said:


> Are you kidding me? After that effort the dude was huffing and puffing like crazy.



No. :dunno:






Please watch at ~ 9:48 

Lesnar is not even breathing out of his mouth. :dunno:


----------



## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Vid doesnt work?

I don't think anyone thinks he was gassed after the first or second either....just that he was starting to wear down. I wouldnt expect him to gas until the 4th.


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## valvetronix (Feb 3, 2008)

Flak said:


> Vid doesnt work?
> 
> I don't think anyone thinks he was gassed after the first or second either....just that he was starting to wear down. I wouldnt expect him to gas until the 4th.


Direct link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jtx-R3qFRk

30 minutes ago you said: After that effort the dude was huffing and puffing like crazy.




Flak said:


> Are you kidding me? After that effort the dude was huffing and puffing like crazy.


30 Mins later.


Flak said:


> I don't think anyone thinks he was gassed after the first or second either....just that he was starting to wear down. I wouldnt expect him to gas until the 4th.



Did you mean Randy? Obviously Lesnar was not.


----------



## TheGamefather (Sep 8, 2008)

I don't think Mir vs Nog has anything at all to do with Mir vs Lesnar. Nog and Lesnar are at completely opposite ends of this sport. 

Nog is slower, much weaker, and smaller than Mir. Brock is faster, much stronger, and bigger than Mir.

Mir can't take a punch from Brock, he falls. Mir can't stuff Brocks takedowns, he goes down at will. 

Mir can submit Brock, but he wont be handed an easy sub like he was in the first fight. Mir can hit Brock, but it wont have much effect other than rattling Brocks nerves.


In the end, Brock is going to overwhelm Mir exactly as he did in the first fight, there is a slight chance he'll get caught in another sub, but I fully expect a KO or TKO victory for Brock within 2 rounds.


Edit: And yeah, Brock has no cardio issues at all. Some people interpreted his nervousness against Couture as being winded... His nerves are his biggest weakness currently imo, but I don't see how anyone could overcome that given he became champ in four fights. He's still green as grass.


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## BlitzGT (Aug 16, 2008)

Flak said:


> Vid doesnt work?
> 
> I don't think anyone thinks he was gassed after the first or second either....just that he was starting to wear down. I wouldnt expect him to gas until the 4th.


I would bet Lesnar would start gassing in the 4th round against Randy, but nobody else probably could push Lesnar that far. Most HW would gas far before Lesnar. Guys like Nog and Randy are the ones that are able to push Lesnar's gas tank.

This match up is going to show us if Mur has really has worked on his conditioning. Lesnar will not make that same mistake again and Mur will have his hands full.


----------



## Gee (Oct 21, 2007)

If 'Mur' can avoid being taken down and continue to work on his boxing, maybe he could win by decision or a TKO?

Lesnar's chin has not been truely tested yet IMO and after watching the fight again I don't think he really has come to terms with drawing blood and getting a real good punch or elbow to the face yet.

Supposing Lesnar does take Mir down, that gives him a chance to go for a submission anyway, so will Lesnar really want to use his wrestling?

Seems like this could turn into a kick boxing match?


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## MHughesbestever (May 15, 2007)

everyone keeps saying brock gased...when did he gas? when he was home asleep?..i mena i seen the fight i watched the videos the man won got up walked aroudn then jumped the cage..that doesnt looked like a gased man to me....also id have to say if the ref doesnt stop and deduct a point from brock in there first fight i have to beleive the fight would have been stopped


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Valve, you know the difference between spiking your HR and gassing right? I do. Are you familiar with 'matches'?

Brock was burning lots of matches in that fight, and although he wasn't gassed yet, he was on his way there.


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## valvetronix (Feb 3, 2008)

Flak said:


> Valve, you know the difference between spiking your HR and gassing right? I do. Are you familiar with 'matches'?
> 
> Brock was burning lots of matches in that fight, and although he wasn't gassed yet, he was on his way there.


Sure not the same as what you originally said :dunno:

As far as 'burning lots of matches' When was he doing this besides the end of the fight? Can you provide time, and round number of when he was, as you say, 'burning lots of matches'


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## BlitzGT (Aug 16, 2008)

Gee said:


> Lesnar's chin has not been truely tested yet IMO and after watching the fight again I don't think he really has come to terms with drawing blood and getting a real good punch or elbow to the face yet.


I think Lesnars chin will be fine. Im also sure he is fine with blood. Almost all professional wrestlers use the blading technique.

Lesnar will not have a gas tank problem in this matchup. Come on, he is fighting Frank Mur, who has yet to prove that he actually has truly conditioned himself well.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

BlitzGT said:


> I think Lesnars chin will be fine. Im also sure he is fine with blood. Almost all professional wrestlers use the blading technique.
> 
> Lesnar will not have a gas tank problem in this matchup. Come on, he is fighting Frank Mur, who has yet to prove that he actually has truly conditioned himself well.


well he lasted more than 3 minutes...so he surprised 1/2 the forum lol


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

valvetronix said:


> Sure not the same as what you originally said :dunno:
> 
> As far as 'burning lots of matches' When was he doing this besides the end of the fight? Can you provide time, and round number of when he was, as you say, 'burning lots of matches'


Spiking your HR and breathing heavily burns matches, and someone as big as him only has a finite amount. Hell, we all do....but guys that big have less, or burn through more more quickly. 

Rogan was right when he said brock was breathing heavy at 4:45. The round also ended in a neutral position after Randy got back to his feet from under Brock twice (3:00 and 4:40), and Randy even managed to stuff a shot at 2:10 (although thats beside the point, just an interesting tidbit for people that say his takedowns are unstoppable). Between rounds he was huffing, and the second round Randy was the one controlling the position, driving Brock into the cage more easily and holding him there for longer. Randy wasn't able to do that in the first. You have to admit that that is a sign of fatigue. Hell, Randy was straight up winning that round until Brock caught him.

We can go back and forth on this as much as we like. Unfortunately, Brock was too much too soon for Randy and we didn't get the chance to see him in the later rounds where fatigue would become a bigger factor....but i think we saw signs late in the first and throughout the second that Brock wouldn't be able to maintain that pace. You might disagree, and you might even be right.....but until i see him in a real fight for longer than 10 mins (Herring didnt give him a real fight), I'm going with the conventional wisdom that says bigger guys tire faster. 

We'll see i guess.


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## KingOfVillains (Dec 30, 2008)

If, if, if...some of you people crack me up.

"If Brock had gone into the later rounds...if he would've been breathing hard..etc." Yeah, and if my sister had balls, she'd be my brother.

The fact of the matter is, he took Heath Herring 3 rounds and beat the shit outta' him the entire fight. One or two more rounds wouldn't have mattered to Lesnar. The guy is a conditioning machine that a lot of you don't seem to understand. Perhaps you focus too much on MMA and you don't realize that wrestling itself (not rasslin') is more physically draining and endurance testing than MMA. In MMA, if you end up on your back, you don't have to struggle with every muscle in your body to get off your back immediately. In MMA you can punch and kick which can just end a fight instantly. Wrestling requires so much more lung capacity, muscle endurance and outright will. I know some of you will hate on me for saying that, but anyone here who's ever wrestled AND fought MMA will agree whole-heartedly with me.

Mir does NOT want this fight with Brock. Mir doesn't have the endurance, conditioning, discipline or heart of Lesnar. Mir seems like one of those guys who truly wants the fortune and fame to be had in the UFC. Lesnar is a simple guy who lives in a modest home, drives a freakin' Chevy Aveo and couldn't care less about the fame that goes with it. I truly believe Brock wants to see if he can be the best at something else. He's an extremely well-motivated, driven man who has power, size and speed that has never been seen in this sport before.

While I would love to see Lesnar knock Mir out cold...I would MUCH RATHER watch him Donkey Kong Mir until he TAPS THE **** OUT FROM THE BEATING!!!


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## Bazza89 (Dec 31, 2006)

KingOfVillains said:


> The fact of the matter is, he took Heath Herring 3 rounds and *controlled* him the entire fight.


Fixed.


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## KingOfVillains (Dec 30, 2008)

Bazza89 said:


> Fixed.


Ah, true...but it was funny to watch him throw Herring around at will. If Brock was the fighter he was against Couture at that time...he would've ended Herring in the first round.

I truly believe the more that Lesnar trains, and the more people he fights...the shorter you're gonna' see his fights become. Because the better he gets, the earlier he's gonna' finish people.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

KingOfVillains said:


> Lesnar is a simple guy who lives in a modest home, drives a freakin' Chevy Aveo and couldn't care less about the fame that goes with it. I truly believe Brock wants to see if he can be the best at something else. He's an extremely well-motivated, driven man who has power, size and speed that has never been seen in this sport before.


This i agree with completely. 

The rest of your post? That's your bias.


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## Gee (Oct 21, 2007)

BlitzGT said:


> I think Lesnars chin will be fine. Im also sure he is fine with blood. Almost all professional wrestlers use the blading technique.
> 
> Lesnar will not have a gas tank problem in this matchup. Come on, he is fighting Frank Mur, who has yet to prove that he actually has truly conditioned himself well.


Yeah probably, he is a big guy..but the bigger they come.. 

He actually said in an interview himself he was nervous once he felt blood drawn?

Funny you should mention the blade technique..I watched the movie 'The Wrestler' the other day and saw he cut himself with a blade. Is that what they actually do in WWE and other organisations..I always wondered?


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## Halebop (Oct 10, 2006)

I think Brock will be too much for Mir. As has been said, Brock isn't going to give Mir the opportunities Nog did. Brock's power is and always will be a factor. It has been the deciding factor in the Herring and Couture fights and lets be honest, until Brock is not able to toy with his opponent, you have to give significant deference to his strength. Improved or not, if Mir just gets laid to the mat and GNPed to oblivion, then I don't see the point in going into the other possible aspects of this match up. 

Brock Lesnar by another prison ****. mmmm...1st round coz he has his first bone to pick in the octagon. 

Oh, and Mir was winded against Nog more then he can afford to be at any time with Lesnar.


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## The Finisher (Mar 23, 2008)

I wouldn't want to be Frank Muuurr on that night. Brock is going to come out with a vengeance.


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## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

Gee said:


> Yeah probably, he is a big guy..but the bigger they come..
> 
> He actually said in an interview himself he was nervous once he felt blood drawn?
> 
> Funny you should mention the blade technique..I watched the movie 'The Wrestler' the other day and saw he cut himself with a blade. Is that what they actually do in WWE and other organisations..I always wondered?


Yes they do.


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

I sure do hope the UFC announces the date of this fight and soon. This is going to be a vicious beating and will set up a probably not so anticipated rubber match. Hopefully the UFC can get this set up for March at the latest. My guess is Mur will be looking to put it off as long as possible. And I don't think blood is any kind of a factor for Lesnar, all it did in the Randy fight is refocus him.


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

mir will say that he was injured when he gets annihilated


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

I hope they set this up ASAP too. One way or another, i want to see it. I don't really care who wins, either way we will finally have a truely deserving UFC HW champ....and then we can start the Fedor vs Mir/Lesnar debates


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## UFC on VHS (Dec 16, 2008)

I cant ******* wait for this fight I really dont know who will win. I think Mir might be able to take him.


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## Captain Stupid (Feb 3, 2008)

A few weeks ago i would have said Mir would have no chance. In fact i said that about Mir's first encounter with Lesnar. But given his confidence level, his improved conditioning, and his almost Couture like abitily to come up with a game plan of late, the guys odds are certainly getting better. Lets break it down a bit with Brock though...

Strength advantage has to go to Lesnar. If it weren't illegal Mir would probably be thrown over the cage and into the crowd. And it doesn't advantage Mir to bulk up in any way whatsoever. He simply has no chance of making up that shortfall in power.

Technique is a bit of a tricky one. We keep talking about how Lesnar has improved in leaps and bounds but in reality very little has changed. His gameplan is still take opponent to ground and donkey punch. His hands were a little bitter in the couture fight but apart from the long reach and power, there wasn't all that much... Although it certainly screwed Randy! lol. You can't say that Brock won't give Mir any limbs to submit him with. As a bjj black belt it's Mir's job to find them. And heath Herring is not a good example of how Brock was controlling. Yes he did because he was allowed to. I don't see Mir turtling that way. Mir has an advantage so far as technique goes but he's gonna have to learn to duck and weave to avoid those gorilla arms of Lesnar.

Conditioning? No idea... Yet to see either of them go a long distance esp given Mir's new dedication to cardio conditioning.

Should be an interesting fight. Dunno who i'm going for yet.


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## nissassagame (May 6, 2008)

I think Lesnar will win this fight by simply bringing what he did last time against Frank, except he will be much more patient and deliberate in his approach. Frank does bring an impressive record of submission skills to the table but as far as standup and ground-control is concerned, I think Lesnar can dominate these areas. The fight will only go Mir's way if he can neutralize Brock's ground and pound. I have a funny feeling that no ref will pull Brock off Mir this time simply because of the previous controversy and this could favor Lesnar. In any event, Lesnar, TKO in the first round.


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