# Lesnar to face Mir! (Now With Added Poll)



## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

UFC® : Ultimate Fighting Championship®

Do you guys think this will put Mir's career back in line with a win?


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## Slug (Apr 8, 2007)

I just saw it as well. Should be a great fight.

If Brock defeats Mir.. I think that will prove to everyone that Brock is no joke. But if he doesn't beat Mir.. then well, I don't know.


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## royalking87 (Apr 22, 2007)

this will be a big test for both fighters


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## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

GAH! You made it before me. 

Article for those who can't be bothered opening another window




> In a classic case of putting your money where your mouth is, new UFC signee Brock Lesnar – who has made no bones about wanting to fight the best the heavyweight division has to offer – will make his Octagon debut at UFC 81 on February 2nd against none other than former UFC Heavyweight Champion Frank Mir.
> 
> The bout will be held at the Mandalay Bay Events Center in Las Vegas, Nevada on the eve of Super Bowl XLII.
> 
> ...


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## Nosbig (Aug 19, 2006)

I think Lesnar could pull off a decision. But I want Mir to get a sub in the first round.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

This could be good, I hope Frank wins just so that his confidence continues to grow.


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## Danomac (Oct 15, 2006)

They are both big bad dudes. I could see either one winning. I really think that Mir is gonna win this one to be honest. I think Lesnar is gonna do something typically sloppy and Mir is gonna catch him.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

wow. not an easy win for lesnar at all. He will for sure be going for the takedown, but he's not out of the water yet. Hopefully all that bjj training he's been doing will help him defend submissions and pound Mir out.


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## Diesel (Aug 17, 2007)

Nice. I called him being the opponent in the other thread! 

This fight means a lot to both fighters. Mir needs to another win to answer more questions if he's for real, and Lesnar needs a dominating victory in the UFC to prove in a way if he's for real, as well.

Hitting two birds with one stone in this one.


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

Horrible match for Lesnar ... unless Mir gasses. Lesnar may actually want to keep this fight standing.


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## pauly_j (Nov 28, 2006)

This has the potential to be a pretty boring fight. I guess Lesnar will come out full force to impress the American crowds. I think I'll dig it anyway because of who it is fighting.

This fight is going to be the example every trainer uses when talking about how important cardio-vascular exercise is.


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## badguy (Sep 5, 2007)

I'm going for Mir on this one. I personally want to see Brock gas and get his take down defended. Other then that lets get ready to rumble!


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## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

pauly_j said:


> This has the potential to be a pretty boring fight. I guess Lesnar will come out full force to impress the American crowds. I think I'll dig it anyway because of who it is fighting.
> 
> This fight is going to be the example every trainer uses when talking about how important cardio-vascular exercise is.


Once Lesnar takes Mir down it's over because Mir is going to submit him.


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## wallysworld191 (Mar 28, 2007)

brocks going to kill mir, he's twice as big fast strong, could be a striker really, atleast more powerful better wrestler. his bjj has progressed too.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Mir is either going to submit Lesnar from his back, or Lesnar will lay n pray for a decision victory. I doubt Lesnar will pass Mir's guard, so hopefully Mir can submit him


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## Philivey2k8 (Apr 22, 2007)

Brad Imes Interview Part 2 - Breaks Down Brock Lesner's MMA Skills, Touches On TUF 2, M-1, And More - MMAFightLine.com

"*MMAFightline:* You spent a lot of time with Brock Lesnar at Miletich. What where your impressions of him as an MMA fighter?

*Brad:* I think he's got a lot of potential. His stand up is really kinda nonexistent, but he's obviously a big powerful guy. And his ground game...I know, he's a D-1 national champ *but I think he's pretty rusty as far as his ground game. I was able to pass guard on him, mount him, do whatever I wanted with him on the ground really*. And he really didn't feel that strong to me, granted I don't grapple with anyone that feels strong to me. But, I think that one of his strengths when he was in college was that he was much stronger than everyone he went up against; and heavyweights, no matter what the sport . . . it is hard to find good ones. So, I think if he sticks with it he'll be great. I just think it was a mistake going to the UFC so quick. And I say that from someone who knows."


Based on what Brad Imes can do to Lesnar on the ground, Mir by round one sub :thumbsup:


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## pauly_j (Nov 28, 2006)

You say that like Mir has got a better ground game than Imes? IMES BY FLYING GOGO!


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## KenFl07 (Aug 6, 2007)

This is a great fight for both men IMO. A loss to Lesnar for Mir wouldn't really be a set back in the UFC's eyes because they are going to promote the hell out of Lesnar. And, instead of bringing Lesnar in to fight a no name, that could possibly reveal a whole in his game and upset a man that they are draining alot of money into. If Mir beats Lesnar, then hey, that's alright because Frank is a former champion and Lesnar is still a new comer to the sport. It also shows that Lesnar has alot of confidence in his abilities, because the rumors are that he hand-picked Frank Mir for his debut UFC fight.

For the UFC and for the fans, this should be a great fight.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Bad matchup for Lesnar imo. I think Mir will submit him.

Unless ofcourse Brock has developed some decent standup, then that makes the outcome unpredictable.


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## Wise (Oct 8, 2006)

I cant wait to watch Mir arm bar his ass.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Wise said:


> I cant wait to watch Mir arm bar his ass.


Wouldn't that be called an assbar?

:confused02:


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## js9234 (Apr 8, 2007)

Just curious why there are so many people saying Brock is gonna try to laynpray to a decision? That's just plain stupid and ignorant to say that. He's only had one fight in MMA and completely dominated the guy. Yeah yeah call him a can but he still decisively beat him without laynpray. Maybe he will win that way maybe he won't but it's pretty ignorant to say he's gonna win that way if he does just because you hate Pro Wrestling or something like that. I'm just excited to see how he will do. Even if he wins people will say "well Mir hasn't been the same" or something like that.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Wise said:


> I cant wait to watch Mir arm bar his ass.


I predict the same wise. Lesner's second fight will be against a resurging Frank Mir who seems to back on track. Mir's ground game hasn't gone anywhere. He was clearly rushed back too fast and never trained properly. Franky is out with Couture now and is going to sub Lesner in convincing fashion. 

If Lesner wins its by keeping top position, and the debate over position vs submission attempts will come up again.


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## enochian (Oct 19, 2007)

mir wont stop the take down, 
lesnar will feel mir's face with his gloves.
no real punching,
lesnar will over power mir to a decision.


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## Philivey2k8 (Apr 22, 2007)

enochian said:


> mir wont stop the take down
> 
> 
> > mir wants it on the ground


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Funny how today, the discussion of the power house wrestler vs the Jiu Jitsu fighter can still be debated. MMA still has a long way to go. 

I can't see how the push of Lesner will sit over well with the other ufc fighter contingent. Arlovski sits on the sidelines, Josh Barnett has no deal, and Randy Couture has left ship.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

This is a dangerous, and dare I say, bad matchup for Brock Lesnar. He, as a wrestler, will want this fight to go to the ground. But thats exactly where Mir is gonna want to be in this one. He'll want to fight off his back and pull of an armbar probably. 


I see Lesnar winning a UD, but Mir could easily sub him. This fight could go both ways.


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## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

And P.S. Props to the UFC for having the balls to make this match up. I figured Lesnar would get someone he matches up with perfectly (OK striking, no ground game) but the UFC really stepped up. Very intriguing match up.


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## nickman9000 (Sep 7, 2006)

Lesnar takes him down, gets armbarred from gaurd. Good comeback fight for Mir. Should get him the exposure to make a run at the belt. Should be exciting.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

Lesner is way to green so Mir should win this! Then again, aside from his victory over Hardock, Mir hasn't looked that impressive lately.


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## HBwillie (Jan 13, 2007)

Mir hasn't really been the same since his accident, but he has experience and I'm sure he'll have improved cardio. I see this fight starting with some sloppy strikes, maybe a leg kick from Mir. Lesnar shoots for the takedown, Mir defends for a while, perhaps scrambling, but gives it up and wins on his back by way of triangle choke near the end of the first round.


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## Poseidon72 (Apr 29, 2007)

If his last fight against Hardonk is any indication Frank will be too crafty for Lesnar on the ground. Maybe it's my dislike for "pro" wrestling but I kind of want Lesnar to be embarassed here.


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## Josh3239 (Mar 4, 2007)

I really hope Mir takes this with an early submission but as stated before, he hasn't been the same since the accident. 

Rooting for Mir but moreso because I don't like Lesnar. Expecting Lesnar to win.


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## Uchi (Oct 15, 2006)

If Mir tries anything, Lesnar will F-1 him. lol

I dunno, Mir's good on the ground, but Lesnar might be able to overpower him, who knows. I hope Mir pulls this one out and makes Brock tap.


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## rufio.e0 (Jul 5, 2007)

I just hope it doesn't end up with both fighters focusing so much on their stand-up that they decide to go all "Matt Hughes" on us and poorly attempt to knock each other out. As long as someone introduces Mir to a treadmill he should dominate (training with the HammerHouse isn't a bad idea either... to prepare for Lesnar's power). I hope Mir stops Lesnar quickly and decisively... to teach Dana not to sign any more unexperienced fighters based on their publicity or achievements in another sporting arena.


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## AtomDanger (Oct 7, 2006)

I really don't see how Mir can win. This fight is surely going to end up on the ground.

I don't know about Lesnar's BJJ or submission skills but I think his strength and wrestling could win him a Tko or decision is Mir can survive.


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## MMAmatt (Apr 8, 2007)

rufio.e0 said:


> I just hope it doesn't end up with both fighters focusing so much on their stand-up that they decide to go all "Matt Hughes" on us and poorly attempt to knock each other out. As long as someone introduces Mir to a treadmill he should dominate (training with the HammerHouse isn't a bad idea either... to prepare for Lesnar's power). I hope Mir stops Lesnar quickly and decisively... to teach Dana not to sign any more unexperienced fighters based on their publicity or achievements in another sporting arena.


well, if Dana keeps making guys who dont fight the most exciting fights sit on the sidelines forever (aka: a standup war) then it might be that every fighter will end up focusing on striking because thats whats popular. :thumbsdown: 

i think Mir will be able to win but honestly i wouldnt bet on this one, i think Lesnar is a big dude and if hes even decent, Mir is not the same as he used to be.


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## capt_america (Apr 16, 2007)

Mir armbar Lesnar is sweet.. :thumb01:

both 6'3..

Lesnar(265 lbs) with 10 lbs weight advantage..

I'll give the stand-up advantage to Mir..

And a Slight Gound advantage to Lesnar.. Tho Mir is dangerous on the ground..

I'll be rooting for Mir.


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## B-Real (Oct 1, 2006)

I kind of would like to see Lesnar do well as the Heavyweight divsion can always use a new contender but Mir is one of my most favourite fighters, so I want Mir to win. I'm expecting Mir to submit him and hoping he does just that. I think it will be an exciting fight. 

Mir by toe hold~!


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## capt_america (Apr 16, 2007)

timsylvia#1 said:


> You left out the most important thing, Lesnar's strength and speed combo, the UFC has never had a heavyweight this big and strong capable of moving like this man.


yeah that is why i gave the ground advantage to him because he is strong ang a good wrestler.. but being only a good wrestler, your only way to win is GnP..where as Mir has BJJ skills that could submit him..

i know Nogs BJJ is better than Mir but did you see when Nog sub Sapp (Stregnth and Speed Combo)?.. i would like to see it again..


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

This is an intersting matchup, and I'm actually really psyched for it as far as matchups go. It's a classic BJJ vs. wrestling fight between two pretty good fighters.

I think that Mir looked strong against Hardonk, but I don't know how he's going to deal with Lesnar's strength. If Brock stays on top I can see him layngaying his way to a decision, or getting a good pounding in for a TKO.

On the other hand, I think that Frank could catch him in a choke like a gogo or sink in an armbar, like he did against Sylvia, and end the fight right there. Both definitily have the ability to finish, though I think I'd give that to Mir a little more than Lesnar, and if it goes the distance I see Brock taking it.

I'll be cheering for Frank Mir, because I think he's a great fighter and would like to see him move back in as a solid gatekeeper for the heavyweight division, but I feel like it's the same as rooting for Elvis Sinosic, because I know that he's not supposed to win.

Either way, it will be an intersting fight. Kudos to the UFC for putting this together, especially with the generally low end grappling in the UFC heavyweight division, because I think that Mir is probably the second or third best ground guy in the division, behind Nogueira and, arguably, Gonzaga.

It'll be a real challenge for Brock, both in fighting someone who's got a serious submission game and in taking on an opponent with some real experience against some very tough opponents.


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## BrAinDeaD (Oct 15, 2006)

Lesnar's strength, agility, stamina is all still very questionable to me at this point. He's undoubtedly strong and very nimble for his size, but we haven't really seen how well that will translate into MMA yet. 

We didn't get to see much of what he's capable of in his first fight. He won in impressive fashion over a last minute replacement. Still, it was his first fight and he went out there and imposed himself. I still deem it to be too early to throw him in there with the likes of Mir. But I guess we'll find out. Mir will be the perfect guy to test him.


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## B-Real (Oct 1, 2006)

Nog has some very fast submission victories but I don't think he could sub Sylvia in less than 50 seconds. With over 15 submission victories, Nog should be number 1 but Mir has an awesome submission game.


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## SuzukS (Nov 11, 2006)

I'm calling it now, Frank Mir by Submission in under a minute into the first round. From what Imes has said about Lesnar, Mir should be able to do whatever he wants.


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## KingXtreme81 (May 27, 2007)

Skip this reply, my reply is below. I messed up in the quoting of another user.


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## KingXtreme81 (May 27, 2007)

timsylvia#1 said:


> Question? Why does everyone hate Brock Lesnar so much? Is it the pro wrestling? The hype? What? I think a lot of people are underestimating the speed strength combo of Lesnar. He will be very difficult to submit because of this. Much like Rampage is able to get out of subs by using strength and speed, I see Lesnar doing the same thing. I think you all are in for a rude awakening when you see how talented an athlete this guy is and how that incredible athleticism will help negate his lack of experience. Should be a great fight! War Brock! BTW, I hate pro wrestling, so don't pull that card on me, LOL.


I couldn't agree more with everything you just said.


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## toddums (Mar 4, 2007)

I think Lesnar will be too strong and athletic for Mir. A strong explosive wrestler with enough BJJ skills to stay out of armbars and triangles can be a nightmare for BJJ guys. 

However, if Mir gets on top it is over.


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## LivingDedMan (May 10, 2007)

I sure didn't expect Lesnar to get Mir for his first fight. Looking forward to this big time. I'll be cheering for Brock Lesnar. I've been excited to see him in the UFC ever since I first heard that he was going to give mma a shot. Three good UFC shows coming up on ppv. This is great news to me.


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## Hazflo (Oct 17, 2007)

Mirr will win by sub in th 1st:thumb02:


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## aGenius (Feb 5, 2007)

It seems like we're getting back to the old Pride days with freak shows, instead of 'real' mma fighters. Sure having a big WWE star in the UFC is cool, but it would be more legit if it wasn't his 2nd fight. I hope Mir taps him out in the first and proves that no matter who you are and what you've done, you can't fight your 2nd fight in the UFC.


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## Ares (Nov 27, 2006)

I take Mir with a first round armbar. Actually, I don't think Lesnar will tap, so we get another Mir/Sylvia moment.


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## RKiller (May 17, 2007)

Lesnar doesn't really have any MMA experience. I vote for Mir by sub in round 1 or 2.


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## Spitfire (Oct 16, 2006)

This really makes no sense to me. I was sure the UFC would throw him a can but to put him up against Mir is just ridiculous. Mir will submit him; he's done it to the best and I don't really see how a few months of BJJ can prepare Brock for someone like Mir. It makes me wonder if the UFC is just using this as a ploy to win some WWE fans and to prove that mma is the real deal (to the uninitiated). A Mir win will be huge for mma and I think Dana is smart enough to realize it. I hope the old Mir (pre-accident) shows up and schools this one dimensional wrestler. Mir is still too good to count out.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

C'mon...this matchup is tailor made for Mir. Remember how Mir submitted Pete Williams with a damn SHOULDER LOCK? And the arm crunching submission on Sylvia? Mir is freakin STRONG, 250 pounds the dude is really strong, so I don't see Lesnar really muscling his way out of a submission like he would with some other heavyweights. Mir should win this one pretty easily really IMO. If he can get a shoulder lock on a good lion's den fighter, he should be able to get SOMETHING on Brock.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

toddums said:


> I think Lesnar will be too strong and athletic for Mir. A strong explosive wrestler with enough BJJ skills to stay out of armbars and triangles can be a nightmare for BJJ guys.
> 
> However, if Mir gets on top it is over.


agree 100%:thumbsup:


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## mrOctagon (Feb 4, 2007)

I would like that Brock win this fight, but i doubt it. We will see what will happen when ex pro wrestler step into the octagon.


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## hollando (Apr 11, 2007)

should be interesting to see if brock will move up or if mir can once again reclaim his fame....

i do think this is a bad match up for brock.....mostly because mir is a good stand up fighter......decent wrestler...in terms of knowledge.....and well we all know excellent BJJ practitioner....so basicaly brock could lose in the stand up.....excel at the wrestling.....and basically look for a ground and pound.....while defending off of mirs submissions....should be an interesting matchup....in terms of the fighters futures


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## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

The Legend said:


> Once Lesnar takes Mir down it's over because Mir is going to submit him.


Can't help but to see the fight going that way. Unless Lesnar turns out to be a total phenom or an MMA genius, he won't be able to handle a life time of tapping big guys. Even without the experience Mir's ground skills are sick.

But Lesnar is a fighter at heart and will probably do everything he can to finish. Therefore, expect an exiting fight!


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## Acoustic (Feb 4, 2007)

If Brock doesn't lay and pray, it's a forgone conclusion that Mir wins.

Brock is freakishly strong but that's about the summary of his talents. He'll likely wrestle a guy to the ground and smother him until the rounds end and he picks up a decision. 

Frank Mir will submit you from impossible angles, however, I believe Brock is in for a rude awakening.


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## rufio.e0 (Jul 5, 2007)

timsylvia#1 said:


> Question? Why does everyone hate Brock Lesnar so much? I think a lot of people are underestimating the speed strength combo of Lesnar. He will be very difficult to submit because of this. Much like Rampage is able to get out of subs by using strength and speed, I see Lesnar doing the same thing.


It's not that we hate Lesnar, but his lack of UFC qualifications make it hard to take him seriously. Most UFC fighters have to work their way up the ladder through other organizations before they even get a shot at the UFC (TUF fighters are usually the exception) and Lesnar got UFC contract 4 months after his first fight. The only justification given for the signing was his wrestling qualifications. He is undoubtedly strong but he is not fast by any leap of the imagination. Good BJJ technique will always win over strength (just look at Ken vs. Royce... Ghandi had more muscle than Royce, and he tapped Ken easily). You can't really compare Lesnar to Rampage (at least not yet), because Rampage knows his submissions and escapes and he _chooses_ to use the slams as not only escapes but for trying to get KO's. Lesnar can probably pick up the fighter, but not with Mir latched on to his arm/neck. 



aGenius said:


> It seems like we're getting back to the old Pride days with freak shows, instead of 'real' mma fighters. UFC.


totally agree :thumbsup:


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## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

Doesn't Mir train with Joe "Daddy"? and I know that Joe "Daddy" goes up to Big Bear for his fights so maybe he'll go up there to improve his cardio. Also how many losses do you think it is going to take for Dana to realize that Brock isn't the real deal. That's if he loses them.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

aGenius said:


> It seems like we're getting back to the old Pride days with freak shows, instead of 'real' mma fighters. Sure having a big WWE star in the UFC is cool, but it would be more legit if it wasn't his 2nd fight. I hope Mir taps him out in the first and proves that no matter who you are and what you've done, you can't fight your 2nd fight in the UFC.


 Perhaps you would feel better if you looked at it as them bringing in a multi-time NCAA wrestling champion with a 106 and 5 record?


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

rufio.e0 said:


> He is undoubtedly strong but he is not fast by any leap of the imagination.


 I guess that depends on how we want to define fast, since he ran the 40 in 4.7 seconds in his NFL tryout.


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

rufio.e0 said:


> It's not that we hate Lesnar, but his lack of UFC qualifications make it hard to take him seriously. Most UFC fighters have to work their way up the ladder through other organizations before they even get a shot at the UFC (TUF fighters are usually the exception) and Lesnar got UFC contract 4 months after his first fight.


So what are the qualifications exactly? Also how many fights should he have before going to the big show? 

I think as Jasvll pointed out his NCAA record more than qualifies him to be in the UFC as well as the potential money to be made from casual fans coming over. 

I think this is a great test for Lesnar and Mir as I stated in the other thread about this, Mir isn't quite ready to fight top caliber guys like AA, Gabe, Syliva, Nog, or Kongo for that matter but a win over Lesnar could put him on that path. Finally, for all those saying Lesnar will lay n pray I got this:


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## ashokjr (Oct 15, 2006)

Lotta ppl seem to think that every other organization is a feeder to UFC and UFC is some kinda divine temple for MMA. Get over it guys. UFC is all about business. They make matches based on how much revenue it would generate. They are really good at identifying talent and good business and hence, stop this Brock bashing.

May be some of you guys train and compete in MMA fights but that doesnt give you guys the right to blast someone who has got a break.


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## rufio.e0 (Jul 5, 2007)

jasvll said:


> I guess that depends on how we want to define fast, since he ran the 40 in 4.7 seconds in his NFL tryout.


You're right it depends on how we define fast. But 4.7 is an impressive sprint. To me he just looked very slow when working position on Min Soo Kim (at least compared to how fast Mir is on the ground).



IcemanCometh said:


> So what are the qualifications exactly? Also how many fights should he have before going to the big show?


More than 1



IcemanCometh said:


> I think as Jasvll pointed out his NCAA record more than qualifies him to be in the UFC as well as the potential money to be made from casual fans coming over.


And my point was that a NCAA record does not mean he's going to be a good fighter. Even if Brock wins his first 20 fights, I'll stand by that statement. It's like saying Mayweather would make a great MMA fighter because he can box. A better argument would be that Brock's been training with Miletich for 3 years. I also don't think people should be signed to UFC contracts because of "potential money from casual fans". That does turn the UFC into the spectacle that PRIDE was, because it's suggesting that the better fighter is less valuable than the more entertaining. But you can always see the dollar signs spinning in Dana's eyes, so I'm not surprised if that's where he steers the organization.

On a separate note: I actually think this is a bad fight for Mir, because he virtually _has_ to win. If he wins, that should have happened. If he loses, he loses to an inexperienced fighter. However, he might not have a choice.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

rufio.e0 said:


> You're right it depends on how we define fast. But 4.7 is an impressive sprint. To me he just looked very slow when working position on Min Soo Kim (at least compared to how fast Mir is on the ground).


 That's true. Personally, I think that his explosive speed will come in handy against Mir. Lesnar may not be fast enough to escape trouble, but I do see him exploding out when he realizes he is.



> And my point was that a NCAA record does not mean he's going to be a good fighter. Even if Brock wins his first 20 fights, I'll stand by that statement. It's like saying Mayweather would make a great MMA fighter because he can box. A better argument would be that Brock's been training with Miletich for 3 years.


 Just a few years ago, bringing in fighters from other disciplines was the whole point of the octagon. To this day, fighters with credentials in one specific art, be it wrestling, bjj, Muay Thai, etc. are brought in based on what they accomplished in their respective disciplines, not MMA. I'm not saying Lesnar is or will be a great fighter. I'm saying he's earned the opportunity to prove himself.



> I also don't think people should be signed to UFC contracts because of "potential money from casual fans". That does turn the UFC into the spectacle that PRIDE was, because it's suggesting that the better fighter is less valuable than the more entertaining. But you can always see the dollar signs spinning in Dana's eyes, so I'm not surprised if that's where he steers the organization.


 The UFC isn't a charity. There will always be a blend of pandering to the casual fan and pure sport. This is true regardless of the sport. Optimizing that blend is the key to long-term success.


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## rufio.e0 (Jul 5, 2007)

jasvll said:


> Just a few years ago, bringing in fighters from other disciplines was the whole point of the octagon. To this day, fighters with credentials in one specific art, be it wrestling, bjj, Muay Thai, etc. are brought in based on what they accomplished in their respective disciplines, not MMA.


I totally acknowledge that a few years ago fighters from different disciplines were brought into the octagon. It just seems like it's been a long time since such one dimensional fighters have been introduced to the UFC. I can't think of any other than Lesnar. We see them come from KOTC, Gladiator Challenge, WEC, Shooto, etc. all the time, that's what I actually look forward to the most from the sport. Watching fighters develop from the lesser known circles into the big shows and seeing how they hold up against other established competitors. I'm gonna have to "agree to disagree" with you by about whether Lesnar's earned the opportunity to prove himself.


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

rufio.e0 said:


> I totally acknowledge that a few years ago fighters from different disciplines were brought into the octagon. It just seems like it's been a long time since such one dimensional fighters have been introduced to the UFC. I can't think of any other than Lesnar. We see them come from KOTC, Gladiator Challenge, WEC, Shooto, etc. all the time, that's what I actually look forward to the most from the sport. Watching fighters develop from the lesser known circles into the big shows and seeing how they hold up against other established competitors. I'm gonna have to "agree to disagree" with you by about whether Lesnar's earned the opportunity to prove himself.


Well if we're talking UFC then you could say Couture, Liddell were the last two about 10 years ago, but if we expand the argument to include MMA and Pride then we get more cases of guys like Fujita, Cro Cop,Rulon, Hunt(?) pro-wrestlers, judo champions, boxing guys being brouth in. Actually, I could almost make an argument that Cro Cop was a pretty recent entry into the UFC and isn't a true MMA fighter b/c he is primarily a kickboxer with TD defense-not that great TDD but its there. I like you will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Also, I was thinking of the Imes comments, my thinking on those is two fold. First, he is talking about Brock in his infancy of training when he was looking for a camp to train with. Secondly, do you really think Imes is gonna say yeah the newbie manhandled me? I don't think so as he is trying to get back into the UFC. I wonder what would happen if Imes and Lesnar rolled around now after Brock has found a camp and been training hard for almost two years.


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## mattandbenny (Aug 2, 2007)

*Lesnar v Mir*

Who's gonna win?


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

In my opinion, I think Frank Mir will pull it off. I mean.. he has toooooo much exp in fighting. Brock has like.. what? 1 fight I think? WWE ain't MMA.. it's not even combat. It's a different story when your actually getting punched in the face. He does have one fight, but that guy was such a can it made me sick. He tapped out from getting pounded in that position? NO! He was just weak. Brock is a beast... but Frank Mir is a freakin legend in my mind. 

WAR FRANK!!!! SUB IN RD 2!raise01:


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## Dutch Master (Sep 12, 2006)

Brock's natural Talent in MMA would have to match Mir's toughness and experience. I don't think Lesner has a chance.


----------



## hollando (Apr 11, 2007)

im pulling for frank on this one


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## Beeno (Jul 28, 2006)

Super dangerous fight. 

For ONCE, Dana hasn't lied to us. he said Lesnar would be no bullshit treatment and given a real fight.

Mir looked good in his last fight, I think he may have recovered a little more in that fight than he had in the previous, post-accident fights.

I'm not big on this Lesnar thing, so I'm glad because I would LOVE Mir to come back strong. It's win-win for UFC. They are counting heavily on Lesnar to be successful, but if Mir were to win, they could bankroll off the former champ that most people don't know about.

You know what I mean? It's not like putting him against some guy from Brazil, who wins, and doesn't speak english and then Dana goes "Well that wasn't very smart." Nothing against THOSE fighters of course, just saying Lesnar is their marketing mule, so they put it in a competitive, yet marketable fight.

Good choice. Mir by sub, late first round.


----------



## kds13 (Nov 27, 2006)

I'm definitely pulling for Frank Mir and can see him pulling off a submission.

But honestly, I think Brock will be strong enough to power out of submissions and keep top position the whole fight en route to a UD win.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Mir is easily top 3-5 for ground games in the UFC HW division. Lesnar's definitely going to be trying to take this to the ground and personally I think that's a big mistake. Mir's striking isn't that great, and I'd like to see Brock show off what stand-up skills he may have.

That said, WAR MIR!


----------



## hollando (Apr 11, 2007)

that being said tho....bjj in way is designed to help the physically weaker fighter win.....of course one would also have to take into consideration that alot of the stuff to help a weaker fighter win....is more or less eliminated


----------



## hollando (Apr 11, 2007)

mirs striking is still good though.....he does have a muay thai backround....of course this is the same situation that anderson silva faces with people thinking his ground game is good


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## Negative1 (Feb 4, 2007)

I can't wait for this fight, I really hope Mir can do it, I want his career to pick up like it was before that horrid accident.

I think I read somewhere that Brock wants to knock someone out. I dunno if he's going to try and stand up and trade or what, if he is still with Royce team he could just be t prepared to go to the mat.


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## rufio.e0 (Jul 5, 2007)

IcemanCometh said:


> if we expand the argument to include MMA and Pride then we get more cases of guys like Fujita, Cro Cop,Rulon, Hunt(?) pro-wrestlers, judo champions, boxing guys being brouth in.


Well I was referring to UFC specifically. Pride definatly has a bunch of fighters without MMA qualifications. CroCop was introduced as such a fighter as well. But because of his extensive experience in Pride, he brought those mma credentials with him to UFC. 



IcemanCometh said:


> First, he is talking about Brock in his infancy of training when he was looking for a camp to train with. Secondly, do you really think Imes is gonna say yeah the newbie manhandled me? I don't think so as he is trying to get back into the UFC. I wonder what would happen if Imes and Lesnar rolled around now after Brock has found a camp and been training hard for almost two years.


I dunno who mentioned Imes, but you're right Brock and Brad rolled when Brock was just starting mma. But if he was as dominant as speculated, he should have at least given Brad problems on the ground. I also don't think Brad would talk trash about someone that did manhandle him (just not smart in general, but I dunno... Brad could be really dumb). While I'm sure Lesnar's improved by leaps and bounds over the last 10 months (that's how long it's been since they trained together), so has Brad (he's got the 2 gogo submissions to prove it) so I have to believe Brad would still dominate.


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## Danomac (Oct 15, 2006)

Mir would own Kongo. Dear God.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I think Lesnar is in alot of trouble, Mir is a really bad opponant for Lesnar, I think Lesnar would have been much better off with a guy like Cro Cop who really doesnt have a strong ground game.


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## Buddy Revell (Oct 24, 2007)

Woohoohoohoohoooo! I'm so excited about this fight. Lesner is going to get schooled 

Hopefully it will put an end to pro-wrestlers thinking they can just one day decide to become MMA fighters.


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## raymardo (Jun 21, 2006)

You have to take into consideration that Brock is said to have requested to have Mir as an opponent. Mir is tough and he's a former champion. If Brock didn't think he could beat him, he wouldn't have asked for him. 

Brock must know something we don't know.

Lesnar by KO - Sub - Some type of stoppage. It won't go to the judges.


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## ToekeR (Sep 30, 2007)

i see brock going to the ground and getting submitted by mir


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## Beeno (Jul 28, 2006)

I'm wondering if Dana's hype of Lesnar is a bit transparent. Maybe he is setting Lesnar up, so a bunch of people will tune in, then lose, and Dana can boast about wrestlers can't hang in the UFC...

I don't know, seems odd, that he would throw Mir, a guy who can submit you in a two seconds against Lesnar. A striker is one thing, a grappler is another, but a quick sub guy like Mir? Seems odd to me. Remember all the shit Dana said about wrestlers before talking about MMA?


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## Buddy Revell (Oct 24, 2007)

I think Beeno might be right...I know that the folks who run the UFC are brilliant marketers so it really perplexed me as to why they would even consider allowing pro-wrestlers into the octagon. The short term monetary gains from luring over some of the WWE/TNA fans cant possibly outweigh the damage to the reputation of MMA/UFC in the eyes of the mainstream sports media and their fledgling north american fan base. However, if this big doofus of a wrestler were to come over and get annihilated...well that's just a win win for MMA and the UFC.


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## Beeno (Jul 28, 2006)

Buddy Revell said:


> I think Beeno might be right...I know that the folks who run the UFC are brilliant marketers so it really perplexed me as to why they would even consider allowing pro-wrestlers into the octagon. The short term monetary gains from luring over some of the WWE/TNA fans cant possibly outweigh the damage to the reputation of MMA/UFC in the eyes of the mainstream sports media. However, if this big doofus of a wrestler were to come over and get annihilated...well thats just a win win for MMA and the UFC.


You said it even better. That's exactly what I mean.

If Mir wins, it's "Wrestlers can't hang with these real fighters" and Mir is back on the fasttrack, and UFC gets to tell WWE people, look at your boy now.

Lesnar wins and it's "He's the real deal."

UFC doesn't lose either way. If he were to have been fighting say, Assuerio Silva, there's nothing to gain by Lesnar losing.


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## hollando (Apr 11, 2007)

Beeno said:


> I'm wondering if Dana's hype of Lesnar is a bit transparent. Maybe he is setting Lesnar up, so a bunch of people will tune in, then lose, and Dana can boast about wrestlers can't hang in the UFC...
> 
> I don't know, seems odd, that he would throw Mir, a guy who can submit you in a two seconds against Lesnar. A striker is one thing, a grappler is another, but a quick sub guy like Mir? Seems odd to me. Remember all the shit Dana said about wrestlers before talking about MMA?


i think your on the rite track....but business men are more into the win win scenerio than the pumping up someone to knock them down....at least not unless its the last fight on his contract lol


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## rufio.e0 (Jul 5, 2007)

great point beeno


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## AtomDanger (Oct 7, 2006)

Beeno said:


> Super dangerous fight.
> 
> For ONCE, Dana hasn't lied to us. he said Lesnar would be no bullshit treatment and given a real fight.
> 
> ...



hahaha I liked that, for once Dana hasn't lied.


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## Negative1 (Feb 4, 2007)

raymardo said:


> You have to take into consideration that Brock is said to have requested to have Mir as an opponent. Mir is tough and he's a former champion. If Brock didn't think he could beat him, he wouldn't have asked for him.
> 
> Brock must know something we don't know.
> 
> Lesnar by KO - Sub - Some type of stoppage. It won't go to the judges.


Well its natural for him to want to fight some of the top guys, after his debut win, he mentioned promoters stepping up and getting some heavyweight titles on the line. (Thats what he wanted, not what he had)

Maybe he thinks that Mir is the easiest fight for him. Hes a big strong MF, there have been fights when they have been neutralized by ground fighters and I think thats what going to happen here. 
Randleman got submitted by Shogun and Kevins a wreslter.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

am i the only guy that sees mir getting destroyed?


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## supermel74 (Oct 15, 2006)

I'm more interested in the future heavyweight title clash between Brock and Kimbo


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## Beeno (Jul 28, 2006)

Maybe if you saw Mir vs. Vera as his last fight. He looked damn good against Hardonk though, Kimura in the first minute I think it was...


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

I'm going for Mir in this one...I really hope he can make a comeback, the motorcycle accident was so unfortunate.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Mir by Lesnar killing himself attempting a shooting star press from the top of the octagon.


Nah, Mir by sub, but it will be a battle. Mir is too experienced and good on the ground for Brock I would think.
This is gonna be a fun fight.


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## sunley213 (Feb 5, 2007)

I think Mir will have to much for Brock.


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## looney liam (Jun 22, 2007)

i honestly don't know what to expect from this fight. lesnar may have come leaps and bounds from when imes tooled him, or he could be pretty much the same. if lesnars smart he'll keep this standing, even if his standup isn't that good he's bound to have knockout power. 

i reckon brock will win this one, round 2 by submission (brock lock)


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## Beeno (Jul 28, 2006)

lol @ the failed shooting star press comment.

Lesnar loses by failed kimura where he pops out his own arm instead. Could Lesnar be the first fighter to climb to the top of the cage and try to backflip onto someone and crush them? 

Settle and laugh before you flame!


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## TGIB (Apr 15, 2007)

Lets be honest we all know how dangerous a fit and fully healthy Frank Mir is, im just wondering what Lesnars standup game is like because i think he'll have worked lots on his sub game since he started to train, i cant help thinking that he must be able to bang and have a good chin because if he thinks an on form Mir is going to let him walk over him then i expect him to get subbed early on. Lesnar is either the real deal or making a mistake with this fight.


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

i can see it go either way, but im pulling for brock, so he can shut up all the wrestling haters on this board who give him absolutly no respect.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Wow, talk about a tough test in your first fight. I mean, Brock had better practice his submission defence like crazy. It's hard to find heavyweights as big as Frank with jiu-jitsu that good.
Then again, Frank had better work that cardio, because I imagine Brock has the advantage in that department. And he also has lots of Frank Mir tape to study.
This is a tough fight to call. I really like Frank, though I'll be the first to admit that he has some obvious weaknesses. But I have no idea what Lesnar is bringing to the table. He's such an unknown quantity.
All I know is I'll feel bad for Mir is he loses. Another defeat would be tough for him right now.



Unholy FD3S said:


> you know if brock wins we will see WWE fans on the forum saying their fighters are better than real MMA fighters right ?


Not if they have any brains. They should realize that Brock is a rarity. Sure, there's plenty of pro wrestlers with a bit of amateur experience, but few of them have been as successful -- and are a freakin' huge! -- as he is.


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## TGIB (Apr 15, 2007)

Who cares what they say?? This is the reason why so many of the people on here seem to be against Brock, he's either a good fighter or not, in February we'll find out


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## FuTuReLeGenD (Jul 11, 2007)

Unholy FD3S said:


> you know if brock wins we will see WWE fans on the forum saying their fighters are better than real MMA fighters right ?


ayt id like to say i grew up watchin wwf and wcw, and i have been watching the ufc ever since the first "The Ultimate Fighter." i say brock lesnar is gonna win this fight and not cause i was a wrestling fan when i was younger. its bc brock is a NCAA All American wrestler so he has a ground game. now submission wise :dunno: , but if wat i read earlier is correct and he is training with the Royce crew than he should have no problem on the ground. now stand up not so sure but since he knocked the guy out in his last fight im sure he will b ayt. 

Frank is a great fighter and of course has more exp, being a former UFC Heavyweight Champion so there is no question bout his composure. (except the motorcycle accident he was in, in my opinion he hasnt really been the same since) with that being said this is gona be a great fight and brocks real welcoming to MMA. could be a great fight like liddell and jackson or great like liddell and jardine

brock UD :thumb02: :thumb02: :winner01:


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I actually think Mir will tap Lesnar early. He's going to have problems fighting a guy who is good off his back.

Man, it's a battle between 2 people who I don't really care for. Can I hope for a double KO? Oh well, at least when Mir taps Brock, we don't have to hear much about him anymore.


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## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

Damone said:


> I actually think Mir will tap Lesnar early. He's going to have problems fighting a guy who is good off his back.
> 
> Man, it's a battle between 2 people who I don't really care for. Can I hope for a double KO? Oh well, at least when Mir taps Brock, we don't have to hear much about him anymore.


How can you not like Mir? if it is pre-accident Mir (how many times has that been said) I think Mir can tap Lesnar by Shoulder Lock.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

The Legend said:


> How can you not like Mir?


Because he's a lazy sack-of-shit, who has never had good cardio. Pre-accident Mir was still lazy as shit, and gassing in 3 minutes is inexcusable. I mean, hell, how can you like him after his performance at UFC 61?


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Damone said:


> *Because he's a lazy sack-of-shit*, who has never had good cardio. Pre-accident Mir was still lazy as shit, and gassing in 3 minutes is inexcusable. I mean, hell, how can you like him after his performance at UFC 61?


Hahaha, I wasn't expecting that.

Damones got a point though. In my opinion if this fight goes passed the first round, Mir has very little chance of winning.


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## js9234 (Apr 8, 2007)

FuTuReLeGenD said:


> ayt id like to say i grew up watchin wwf and wcw, and i have been watching the ufc ever since the first "The Ultimate Fighter." i say brock lesnar is gonna win this fight and not cause i was a wrestling fan when i was younger. its bc brock is a NCAA All American wrestler so he has a ground game. now submission wise :dunno: , but if wat i read earlier is correct and he is training with the Royce crew than he should have no problem on the ground. now stand up not so sure but since he knocked the guy out in his last fight im sure he will b ayt.
> 
> Frank is a great fighter and of course has more exp, being a former UFC Heavyweight Champion so there is no question bout his composure. (except the motorcycle accident he was in, in my opinion he hasnt really been the same since) with that being said this is gona be a great fight and brocks real welcoming to MMA. could be a great fight like liddell and jackson or great like liddell and jardine
> 
> brock UD :thumb02: :thumb02: :winner01:


He's been training with Sherk and his gym for over a year. Don't think the Gracie thing ever happened.


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## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

Damone said:


> Because he's a lazy sack-of-shit, who has never had good cardio. Pre-accident Mir was still lazy as shit, and gassing in 3 minutes is inexcusable. I mean, hell, how can you like him after his performance at UFC 61?


I gotta admit too that I didn't see that response coming either. Also I admit I was upset with his performance at UFC 61 too he should of subbed Christianson on under a minute like he usually does to people.


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## Lloyd (Oct 15, 2006)

I see Lesnar overpowering Mir and winning in the first 2 minutes of the fight.


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## Beeno (Jul 28, 2006)

Personally, I think he's made up for the Christison fight. I think maybe he came back way too fast for that fight, he was way overweight.

Last fight is the closest thing to base his performance, and he looked good to me. You're only as good as your last fight.


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## Buddy Revell (Oct 24, 2007)

Does anyone else find it astounding that there are grown adults out there who will actually admit to being pro-wrestling fans?

*shakes head in disbelief* 

I guess they have to find something to do in between sleeping with their cousins


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

Buddy Revell said:


> Does anyone else find it astounding that there are grown adults out there who will actually admit to being pro-wrestling fans?
> 
> *shakes head in disbelief*
> 
> I guess they have to find something to do in between sleeping with their cousins


LOL, I never understood how anyone can actually get into that crap. I honestly can't see what's so interesting about it, especially when you know it's fake the whole time you are watching it. I am proud to say that I have never in my life watched a single pro-wrestling match in its entirety. I didn't even know who Brock Lesnar was until his MMA debut started rumoring.


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## js9234 (Apr 8, 2007)

Buddy Revell said:


> Does anyone else find it astounding that there are grown adults out there who will actually admit to being pro-wrestling fans?
> 
> *shakes head in disbelief*
> 
> I guess they have to find something to do in between sleeping with their cousins


I watch it every now and then but not often. Nothing wrong with it. Something to laugh about. Just because your genius self doesn't watch it doesn't make it bad. SO people that watch it sleep with there cousins? That's about the dumbest thing I've heard. Yeah, everyone that watches it is a non-educated incest loving idiot. How about stop trying to be a dick in all your posts before you get banned again.


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> LOL, I never understood how anyone can actually get into that crap. I honestly can't see what's so interesting about it, especially when you know it's fake the whole time you are watching it. I am proud to say that I have never in my life watched a single pro-wrestling match in its entirety. I didn't even know who Brock Lesnar was until his MMA debut started rumoring.




and tv shows like Lost, Prison Break, My Name is Earl and movies with Jet Lie and Jackie Chan are so much more watchable because they are totally real right??


to say you hate it because its fake is the weakest excuse ever. say you dont like the story lines, your just not interested in the action.... i am fine with those. but if you hate it cuz its fake... then you must hate virtualy all movies and tv shows too then.


Edit: and by the way, i havent watched any pro wrestling in many many years.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Buddy Revell said:


> Does anyone else find it astounding that there are grown adults out there who will actually admit to being pro-wrestling fans?
> 
> *shakes head in disbelief*
> 
> I guess they have to find something to do in between sleeping with their cousins


I wasn't even going to respond to this post at first, because this argument is so tired and, well, this is an MMA forum. Brock Lesnar is no more a professional wrestler than Rich Franklin is a teacher or Randy Couture is an army officer.
I haven't been a wrestling fan for a long time, but really, who cares if I am or not? What's next? 
Should we diss each other in this forum because of what music we listen to, what cars we drive, or whether ? Who gives a good goddamn?


----------



## Tommy08 (Feb 2, 2007)

Wow...nice setup for the match. Win or Lose Lesnar will not look bad.

I did see Lesnar's one match and I can't form an opinion based on that if he is good or not. We have Imes's comments, and depending on when they were made Lesnar may be past that. That was also training and not a match. There is no doubt though that Lesnar is a skilled athlete, his wrestling background is solid.
Oh- and btw Vince McMahon admitted yeras ago that the sport was just entertainment. No one in wrestling still pretends it is a real fight. The pain, training, hardship, and need for skills are real though.


Mir hasn't changed just because of the motorcycle accident. After his comeback back in the day he also had a promo on the UFC where he said family comes first. That sounds quite noble, but also leads to getting beat up by Brandon Vera. I don't know if Mir's head will ever be back in the game, to be honest. 

I mean wife and all can be more improtant in the long term, but if you are a fighter- then fighting just has to be the most important thing. Frank had a lot of potential but may have ultimately defeated himself. 
Unless he realizes this is a match that can re-elevate his name and his standing and puts himself back into it.

This is hard to call. I honestly was always hoping Mir would come back true to form. The guy had the potential to do it all.


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## Kameleon (Apr 20, 2006)

Buddy Revell said:


> Does anyone else find it astounding that there are grown adults out there who will actually admit to being pro-wrestling fans?
> 
> *shakes head in disbelief*
> 
> I guess they have to find something to do in between sleeping with their cousins


*I still watch wrestling from time to time, it isn't what it used to be, entertainment wise, since 2002. I watch because of the storyline and occasionally mark out for certain things.

You shouldn't be astounded to know, that alot of people from different diversities and background watch wrestling. The WWE is a more global company than the UFC, and until last year was more popular, imo.

Yeah, we know it's 'fake'. What else you got?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for Lesnar vs Mir? I'll give it to Lesnar because of his wrestling background(college, not pro-wrestling), he has more power, and faster than Mir. Mir has the experience but not what he used to be.*


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## e-thug (Jan 18, 2007)

Well couple of things to say, Props to Brock Lesnar and props to the UFC.

Props to Brock Lesnar for taken on Frank Mir...Im sure he coulda easily taken a fight wit a much lesser opponent had he asked for it.

Props to UFC for actually giving Lesnar a very competative first match in the UFC...it would've been quite easy for them to give Lesnar a bunch of fights to pad his record and milk him for all the green.

As for the fight, I do got Mir winnin...would I bet on that?? absolutely not, Lesnar has freakish strength, speed and athletism for such a big guy. 

Im gonna lean towards the assumption that he is soaking in soo much from his training that he could suprise us all...


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

e-thug said:


> As for the fight, I do got Mir winnin...would I bet on that?? absolutely not.


That's just it. Who knows what Lesnar has? Mir is at a disadvantage in that respect, for sure, because he can't formulate a decent game plan for Brock based on the Min Soo Kim fight. Brock, meanwhile, has 11 UFC fights to study.


----------



## Ares (Nov 27, 2006)

Mir by Technical Submission (armbar)


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## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

No-one thinks wrestling is real. People (myself included) watch it for the humerous storylines and the amazing acrobatics. It's that simple, I don't see why this bothers people so much.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

Very interesting fight.

This just proves that the UFC doesn't want to give Lesnar a cakewalk, they gave him a good calibure opponent that's been training MMA for years, not only that a former UFC champion.

The way I can see this fight happening is Lesnar being able to take Mir down with ease, there isn't a heavyweight in the UFC Lesnar couldn't take down. While Mir is a big heavyweight, Lesnar is bigger and will use his strength to beat him. 

I can see this fight happening like Gorgel/Robinson. I think Mir will probably win Rd 1, getting the better of Lesnar with the stand-up and working more on the ground. Second and third round I can see Lesnar taking him down and just pounding the ever loving shit out of Mir like Robinson did to Gorgel.


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## SnakePit (Mar 4, 2007)

i voted lesnar but it's a toss up.


I mean we know it goes to the ground.


I know mir has great subs, but there's a point where brock is just so strong.

i doubt mir has ever tried to sub someone his size or strength. 


You can't choke brock. his neck is too damn big. I don't see an arm bar or kimura because of how massive and strong he is. 
I don't see leg locks either for the same reasons. 



In the mean while, I doubt Mir has been hit with the heavy hands brock has.


----------



## Grotty (Jul 21, 2006)

I think if Mir wins it will be by TKO "elbows" on the ground, Lesnar will undoubtedly go to the ground as soon as possible and go for the same ,


----------



## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

JuggNuttz said:


> and tv shows like Lost, Prison Break, My Name is Earl and movies with Jet Lie and Jackie Chan are so much more watchable because they are totally real right??
> 
> 
> to say you hate it because its fake is the weakest excuse ever. say you dont like the story lines, your just not interested in the action.... i am fine with those. but if you hate it cuz its fake... then you must hate virtualy all movies and tv shows too then.
> ...


Actually I don't watch anything on TV other than UFC, documentaries, and NFL, and occassionally Family Guy or The Simpsons. I pay $150 for cable each month and I don't watch TV. And it is solely because I can't get into shit that I know is fake, unless its a good movie or a funny cartoonish show like Scrubs. So yea, you guessed right, I really do hate virtually all movies and tv shows. I've even made threads about it in the lounge.


----------



## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> Actually I don't watch anything on TV other than UFC, documentaries, and NFL, and occassionally Family Guy or The Simpsons. I pay $150 for cable each month and I don't watch TV. And it is solely because I can't get into shit that I know is fake, unless its a good movie or a funny cartoonish show like Scrubs. So yea, you guessed right, I really do hate virtually all movies and tv shows. I've even made threads about it in the lounge.



haha part of me wants to yell DOUCHE!!! but most of me wants to say ok i can respect that. hehe.  


im not a wrestling mark, im really not. talk to me about current story lines and i will have no idea what your talking about. but when i hear people tell me they hate it cuz its fake, or that pro-wrestlers dont do much physically, then ya i get a bit pissed off. there was a time in my early 20's where i loved pro-wrestling and infact was about to go to a pro wrestling school. i didnt go because of money....i didnt have enough. so... sorry just pisses me off when i hear "it sucks cuz its fake"


----------



## NikosCC (May 16, 2007)

Well i don't see the Crowd nor the Pressure of being in the UFC cage bothering Lesnar cnsidering he was in front of Thousands of more people while in WWE. Second i think he will be rusty his first REAL test as a fighter i see it being a boring fight but i see Lesnar winning. Based on the fact i can't see MIR getting/Holding down Brock he is too Strong i see him GnP MIR


----------



## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

vandalian said:


> That's just it. Who knows what Lesnar has? Mir is at a disadvantage in that respect, for sure, because he can't formulate a decent game plan for Brock based on the Min Soo Kim fight. Brock, meanwhile, has 11 UFC fights tyo study.


I agree with you that Mir is at a disadvantage because who knows what Brock has because his last opponent didn't try anything against him but Mir's gameplan is going to be the same as always get him down and SUB him.


----------



## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

Sorry to bump a week old thread but I wanted to weight in. I've been waiting for Brock to make his way to the UFC and I'm glad Dana finally got past the "no pro wrestler" issue. Lesnars strength and more importantly his lightweight quickness and wrestling experience are going to make it very difficult for anyone to get the better of him on the ground. I can see Mir taking advantage of a rookie mistake but I'm not sold that he will be able to keep that advantage. I think the biggest question mark is Lesnars chin. We've never seen what it's made of, and as everyone knows in MMA at some point in almost every fight it's gonna get tested. I think the cardio edge goes to Brock, the ground game goes to Brock, and the stand up goes to Mir since Brock's stand up is an absolute unknown. My money is on Brock in a no BS debut fight. I know he's training with Sherk in MN but I've gotta believe he would do better in a camp like Militech, he's already an accomplished wrestler seems a wrestling heavy camp isn't the best place to round out your skills.


----------



## ToekeR (Sep 30, 2007)

if i see a pile driver ill quit watching the ufc


----------



## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

If you see a pile driver NSAC is going to make that decision for you.


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

wow, give the guy the ex-HW champ on his UFC debut and 2nd mma fight ever. This could be quick.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

SnakePit said:


> i voted lesnar but it's a toss up.
> 
> 
> I mean we know it goes to the ground.
> ...


Mir broke Sylvia's arm? And Sylvia's as big as they come in the HW div, he touches the 265 lb limit.


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## raymardo (Jun 21, 2006)

Lesnar has a great shot. He's a dedicated high level athlete with a strong work ethic. 

I think he KOs Mir. He will win by stoppage.


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## BoloPunch (Nov 5, 2007)

If mir comes in shape with goog conditioning he will beat Lesnar. Most likely rip his arm off but if he does't lesnar will probably overpower him


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## BoloPunch (Nov 5, 2007)

SnakePit said:


> i voted lesnar but it's a toss up.
> 
> 
> I mean we know it goes to the ground.
> ...


According to a recent interveiw by the GoGo Master Brad Imes, he said he rolled with Brock and he wasn't impressed by his "Strength"


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Once your arm is extended, strength counts for nothing in an armbar. Same with a choke, kimura, knee bar. When applied, an opponents strength can't save them.

That's kind of the point.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

Flak said:


> Once your arm is extended, strength counts for nothing in an armbar. Same with a choke, kimura, knee bar. When applied, an opponents strength can't save them.
> 
> That's kind of the point.


 'Once your arm is extended' is a key qualifier. What's being suggested is that, like Quinton Jackson, Lesnar will be able to power his way out of the setups or in the case of moves with less leverage (like the Kimura), Lesnar's strength will allow him to keep his joints inside their range of motion. He certainly wouldn't be the first.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Nor would he be the first guy to fail either.

I guess i just have to go with the experienced submission guy over the strong rookie. I think Mir is slick enough to slap it on him quickly enough that he can't counter in time, or can set it up in such a way to create a 2 on 1 situation negating Brocks power. Besides, Mir could RNC, triangle, knee bar, toe hold, etc etc where Brock's massive upper body isn't as useful.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

Flak said:


> Nor would he be the first guy to fail either.
> 
> I guess i just have to go with the experienced submission guy over the strong rookie. I think Mir is slick enough to slap it on him quickly enough that he can't counter in time, or can set it up in such a way to create a 2 on 1 situation negating Brocks power. Besides, Mir could RNC, triangle, knee bar, toe hold, etc etc where Brock's massive upper body isn't as useful.


 I'm more of a wait and see type of guy myself.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

Typically i am too, but im going to go out on a limb here and say that Mir taps him in the 1st. I think Brock will make a fatal mistake.


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## Spitfire (Oct 16, 2006)

Brock already made that fatal mistake by taking the fight with Mir. I can hear arms breaking already.


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## mratch19 (Nov 19, 2007)

cmon guys. lesnar f-5ed the big show.. thats all he needs to do to mir and the fight is over. 


no but seriously this doesnt look like a good matchup for big lesnar but i still think he can take it. as long as he trains like a mad man. hes got a few months still and i think both fighters will be ready for this.. it'll be a good one.


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## LeeM (Nov 23, 2007)

Im still new to watching UFC and MMA general (I used to be a big wrestling fan :X) but I think Brock will lose due to his inexperience and lack of stand up and bjj skills.


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## Acoustic (Feb 4, 2007)

LeeM said:


> Im still new to watching UFC and MMA general (I used to be a big wrestling fan :X) but I think Brock will lose due to his inexperience and lack of stand up and bjj skills.


Brock = Heavy-weight Sean Sherk.

He'll lay and pray against Mir and hope for a decision.


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

Why does everyone say he will lay and pray he didn't against the Judo can so I doubt he will against Mir, he will be active in the guard and work on postering up to rain down some blows. Just b/c he is a wrestler ppl. say he will lay n pray, I hate that.


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## Sharpshootah (Dec 6, 2007)

I had to join the Forum to respond. Being a long time WWE watcher, and an avid Fan of MMA for the last couple years or so i have to mention a few things. 

IMO Lesnar will destroy alot of Heavyweights. I have never seen someone tap from strikes to the side of the head without a KO. He hits HARD and you can tell it in the video. Now im not trying to stick up for Brocks lack of experience, in which MIR clearly has him beat. But i dont think MIR is ready for a guy of his size, strength and athletiscm?(typo) Guy can do backflips off the top rope...
with credentials like this: _Lesnar finished his amateur career as a two-time NJCAA All-American, two-time NCAA All-American, two-time Big Ten Champion, and the 2000 NCAA heavyweight champion with a record of 106-5 overall in four years of college._ Mir will have his hands full with a guy thats the same age but much stronger and a better wrestler.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Acoustic said:


> Brock = Heavy-weight Sean Sherk.


Except Sherk's actually a solid fighter and has proven himself to be one.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

Sharpshootah said:


> I had to join the Forum to respond. Being a long time WWE watcher, and an avid Fan of MMA for the last couple years or so i have to mention a few things.
> 
> IMO Lesnar will destroy alot of Heavyweights. I have never seen someone tap from strikes to the side of the head without a KO. He hits HARD and you can tell it in the video. Now im not trying to stick up for Brocks lack of experience, in which MIR clearly has him beat. But i dont think MIR is ready for a guy of his size, strength and athletiscm?(typo) Guy can do backflips off the top rope...
> with credentials like this: _Lesnar finished his amateur career as a two-time NJCAA All-American, two-time NCAA All-American, two-time Big Ten Champion, and the 2000 NCAA heavyweight champion with a record of 106-5 overall in four years of college._ Mir will have his hands full with a guy thats the same age but much stronger and a better wrestler.


I think that athleticism goes a long way... but not in MMA.

IMHO, Brock has the same chance as Houston... a punchers chance.

If Brock ends up on his back, it will be reminiscent of the Houston/Thiago bout... its just not a place that Brock is accustomed too. 
While Mir has been at the MMA game a very long time and has been in wars. 

Sure hes got a great wrestling background... but so does Kos and he didnt do too well off of his back.

You gotta remember, power only counts for so much... its the whole point of martial arts, you must use technique as well. Power will get you outta trouble sometimes, but better technique wins out most of the time.

I give Brock the edge if they stand and trade, but should Mir get the takedown and put Brock on his back, its over for Brock.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

Damone said:


> Except Sherk's actually a solid fighter and has proven himself to be one.


ugh, what an insult to Sherk 

seriously though... how can you compare the two? :confused02:
other than in physique... thats where it ends.

I give tons more props to Sherk's technical mma abilities compared to those of Brock.
Im not even a fan of Sherk... I just respect his MMA skills.

While Brock has been an 'entertainer' for the last while and has only started his MMA career :confused05:


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Sharpshootah said:


> I had to join the Forum to respond. Being a long time WWE watcher, and an avid Fan of MMA for the last couple years or so i have to mention a few things.
> 
> IMO Lesnar will destroy alot of Heavyweights. I have never seen someone tap from strikes to the side of the head without a KO. He hits HARD and you can tell it in the video. Now im not trying to stick up for Brocks lack of experience, in which MIR clearly has him beat. But i dont think MIR is ready for a guy of his size, strength and athletiscm?(typo) Guy can do backflips off the top rope...
> with credentials like this: _Lesnar finished his amateur career as a two-time NJCAA All-American, two-time NCAA All-American, two-time Big Ten Champion, and the 2000 NCAA heavyweight champion with a record of 106-5 overall in four years of college._ Mir will have his hands full with a guy thats the same age but much stronger and a better wrestler.


Moonsaults off the top rope really don't mean much. I mean, yeah, he can take some nasty bumps, but MMA is entirely different than pro-wrestling. Brock Lesnar is just green. He has a legit background, but he still needs to take the time to train if he's going to become anything decent in the sport of MMA. If Mir gets taken down, then he could just work off his back. Lesnar better have good cardio, because he could whomp Mir when Mir gasses, since Mir gasses a lot and in about 3-5 minutes, too.

Still, I see Mir winning this with a submission.


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## EGO KILLER (Oct 26, 2006)

I just cant beleive somone would say Lesnar has no experience in the cage????? I seen for myself him not only fight but be BEAT the Undertaker in a Hell in the Cell!!! and thats the the Undertakers best match and hell the octagon dont even have a roof on it.











J/K...........Lesnar will beat Mir just for the record


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

EGO KILLER said:


> I just cant beleive somone would say Lesnar has no experience in the cage????? I seen for myself him not only fight but be BEAT the Undertaker in a Hell in the Cell!!! and thats the the Undertakers best match and hell the octagon dont even have a roof on it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL!
ya had me there for a sec... couldnt believe what I was readin :thumb02:


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

EGO KILLER said:


> I just cant beleive somone would say Lesnar has no experience in the cage????? I seen for myself him not only fight but be BEAT the Undertaker in a Hell in the Cell!!! and thats the the Undertakers best match and hell the octagon dont even have a roof on it.


Taker fought with a broken hand, which shows how much heart and how much of a warrior he is. If he was healthy, then he'd give Brock the dreaded, Matty Mo kneebreaker, and then gogoplata him. All of this, while wearing Rainbow leather pants.

Man, Min Soo Kim really sucks, so Brock pounding him shouldn't be a big deal.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

Damone said:


> Taker fought with a broken hand, which shows how much heart and how much of a warrior he is. If he was healthy, then he'd give Brock the dreaded, Matty Mo kneebreaker, and then gogoplata him. All of this, while wearing Rainbow leather pants.
> 
> Man, Min Soo Kim really sucks, so Brock pounding him shouldn't be a big deal.


rainbow leather pants! LOL

Min Soo Kim doesnt suck... j/k LOL!
Min Soo was the quintessential definition of the term 'CAN'

The guy was hand-picked to Lose and prolly wouldnt have gotten paid if he had won.


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## Sharpshootah (Dec 6, 2007)

attention said:


> I think that athleticism goes a long way... but not in MMA.
> 
> IMHO, Brock has the same chance as Houston... a punchers chance.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your mature response....Im glad i joined so far. Usually you get attacked for your opinion right away. I agree with you, although i think you underestimate Brock on the ground. IMO i think it would be hard to keep him down, unless you really overpowered him. 



attention said:


> I give tons more props to Sherk's technical mma abilities compared to those of Brock.
> 
> 
> While Brock has been an 'entertainer' for the last while and has only started his MMA career :confused05:


I think you underestimate the athleticism and ability it takes to be a Pro Wrestler. As the WWE says " Yes this is entertainment, but Yes this is real"



Damone said:


> Moonsaults off the top rope really don't mean much. I mean, yeah, he can take some nasty bumps, but MMA is entirely different than pro-wrestling. Brock Lesnar is just green. He has a legit background, but he still needs to take the time to train if he's going to become anything decent in the sport of MMA. If Mir gets taken down, then he could just work off his back. Lesnar better have good cardio, because he could whomp Mir when Mir gasses, since Mir gasses a lot and in about 3-5 minutes, too.
> 
> Still, I see Mir winning this with a submission.


Again, thanks for your response...I agree with you on him being green for sure, and how much different MMA is. I guess we will see his natural ability come in to play in this fight as well if its not over quick for either/or.. As for Cardio, i think a WWE match might take more outta ya(no offense) so i think hes ready.



Damone said:


> Taker fought with a broken hand, which shows how much heart and how much of a warrior he is. If he was healthy, then he'd give Brock the dreaded, Matty Mo kneebreaker, and then gogoplata him. All of this, while wearing Rainbow leather pants.
> 
> Man, Min Soo Kim really sucks, so Brock pounding him shouldn't be a big deal.


See now you are just taking shots at Pro Wrestling...I never compared the two and never will. BTW, Taker is one of the oldest veterans working today and has mas respect from alot of people i would bank on. Even MMA stars!(Gasp) Anyways, i hope none of those rainbow pants wearing stunts they do dont "accidentily" happen to MIr during the bout. 

Peace
:thumb02:

My bets on Brock....


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

> See now you are just taking shots at Pro Wrestling.


I am?

Pro-wrestling is just different than MMA. You train differently, and while wrestling is hard on one's body, MMA requires a lot of training and focus. 

Pro-wrestling requires one to be in good shape, but it's different when there are real punches, kicks, & knee's coming at you.


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## Sharpshootah (Dec 6, 2007)

Damone said:


> I am?
> 
> Pro-wrestling is just different than MMA. You train differently, and while wrestling is hard on one's body, MMA requires a lot of training and focus.
> 
> Pro-wrestling requires one to be in good shape, but it's different when there are real punches, kicks, & knee's coming at you.


Hey i wasnt lashing out at ya, i apoligize...I just fully enjoy both MMA and Pro Wrestling and cant wait for the first real mainstream guy to cross over and fight! :thumbsup:


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

The Undertaker should make the move to MMA, he was my favourite wrassler when I was a little kid. Probably the best Gimmick in WWE ever(back in the day, before the killed him and brought him back from the dead 14 times)

Dude put Batista in a triangle a while back, I wanna see him take on Sylvia.


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## MalkyBoy (Nov 14, 2007)

The Taker's body is a wreck but it would be fun to watch him walk along the top of the octagon jump of then clobber his oppenent, quickly followed by a chokeslam then tombstone combo, totally old school.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Malkyboy said:


> The Taker's body is a wreck but it would be fun to watch him walk along the top of the octagon jump of then clobber his oppenent, quickly followed by a chokeslam then tombstone combo, totally old school.


Taker would put some fools through Rogan and Golbergs commentary table with a chokeslam from the top of the octagon. Then like the old days he could point at shit and it would burst into flames.

I can imagine him getting hit with LHK after LHK from Crocop looking all KTFO and then sitting up all zombie like.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

Sharpshootah said:


> ...
> i think you underestimate Brock on the ground. IMO i think it would be hard to keep him down, unless you really overpowered him.
> ...
> I think you underestimate the athleticism and ability it takes to be a Pro Wrestler. As the WWE says " Yes this is entertainment, but Yes this is real"
> ...


I once watched wrestling... I even attended an event with my dad in my youth... back then I watched Calgary Stampede Wrestling on Saturday mornings...back when TV only had 13 channels.

I realize that sports entertainment requires a degree of athleticism and ability to take damage... but consider that its more of a live play involving physical contact rather than legitimate competition to see who will win.

In wwe 'sport entertainment' the combatants expend a great deal of energy in short bursts... but you wont see them sustain alot of intense activity. They're trained to do showy moves as opposed to affective techniques. 

I think that you 'over-estimate' a pro-wrestler ability in the mma arena.
I have viewed many pro wrestlers try to make the transition into the mma cage, only to quietly go away.
There are very few pro wrestlers that have been successful... Ron Waterman perhaps...
As a pro wrestler, he picked up alot of bad habits that simply do not translate well into the cage.
And falling back to old-school wrestling will get you submitted quickly by a opponent schooled in bjj.

Pro wrestlers are trained to handle physical damage, but not in the form that they would receive in mma or boxing or bjj/***** ... it simply is not the same.

Brock may have super strength, but that all means nothing when the proper technique is applied... its all about leverage. If Mir catches him in a key lock, kamura, ankle lock, knee or arm bar... Brock will not be able to power out of that.

Brock's ground game is a big unknown, I obviously cant cite any weaknesses because he has yet to display any... but neither can anyone claim it is his strength.

If Mir doesnt get caught on the way in, there is no doubt im my mind that he can take Brock down. Im sorry, to state that Brock would never get taken down is simply absurd. Even veteran HW mma fighters get taken down... double underhooks and a single leg trip will almost always result in a takedown in the HW division.

Dont get me wrong, I can see Brock winning... by KO.
But I dont count Mir out... simply because the sub is there for the taking... one knee lock and its all Mir.


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## ash (Oct 15, 2006)

attention said:


> Brock may have super strength, but that all means nothing when the proper technique is applied... its all about leverage.


You make a good point here, but let's not forget that strength does still play a role...you can't just write it off. For instance, take a look at Swick's face when he was telling his corner how strong Okami is after that first round. Or think about Diego's statements that he might not be strong enough to continue competing at WW. It does make a difference.

Ash


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

ash said:


> You make a good point here, but let's not forget that strength does still play a role...you can't just write it off. For instance, take a look at Swick's face when he was telling his corner how strong Okami is after that first round. Or think about Diego's statements that he might not be strong enough to continue competing at WW. It does make a difference.
> 
> Ash


Absolutely concur, it definitely plays a role.
When the UFC began, it clearly illustrated that expert technique coupled with average power will generally dominate raw strength alone.

People like Sherk and Faber utilize their strength sometimes more than their technique. Is this bad? absolutely not.
but relying purely on strength versus someone like Aoki or Penn would be a huge mistake.

Sometimes strength comes in handy when caught in a tough situation... like on the 'verge' of a arm lock or triangle choke... but rarely will strength alone get them out of that situation... More often it will be technique that will get them out of a tough situation.

Strength also plays no part on how strong a fighters jaw is.
You cant weight train to counter a glass jaw.
But you can employ the proper techniques to minimize your jaws exposure.


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## EGO KILLER (Oct 26, 2006)

lets not froget Brock is not just a super strong retard. He is a true athlete not just some weightlifter from down on the coner.I mean its not like were saying "OH SHIT,Ric Flair's is coming for the belt" IMO Brock has all the tools to "ONEDAY" be the champion. may be down the road and a few losses away but he has what it takes.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

EGO KILLER said:


> lets not froget Brock is not just a super strong retard. He is a true athlete not just some weightlifter from down on the coner.I mean its not like were saying "OH SHIT,Ric Flair's is coming for the belt" IMO Brock has all the tools to "ONEDAY" be the champion. may be down the road and a few losses away but he has what it takes.


That makes alot of sense to me.
I think he has great potential.

I really am looking forward to this bout, there has been soo much speculation going on... I think Mir may put a reality check on what Brock really does bring to the table.

Ric Flair... LOL! ...Bad News Allen will take it for sure...unless of course the Cuban assassin takes him out first... or his twin


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