# Jon Jones and Chael Sonnen set for TUF?



## tommydaone (Feb 19, 2010)

> Jon Jones didn't want to fight Chael Sonnen on a week's notice, but now the Ultimate Fighting Championship light-heavyweight champion will be subjected to perhaps a crueler fate:
> 
> Spending weeks on end around the quick-witted, in-your-face title contender.
> 
> ...


http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-72912761/

Just tweeted by Ariel Helwani, not sure how reputable the source is.

Will make for excellent television, the fight however? Jon Jones by whatever he's in the mood for..


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

hmm.... interesting. I look forward to Jones being humiliated weekly verbally by Sonnen.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

....What?

I thought TUF debuted in March and the coaches fought in June/July, I'm calling bullshit on this, but I don't know why Ariel would retweet it...


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

hellholming said:


> hmm.... interesting. I look forward to Jones being humiliated weekly verbally by Sonnen.


That's about the only thing that could get me to watch the show, to be honest.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

TUF sucks but I will watch most of this. 

Thing is Sonnen has no chance vs. Bones, so in the end I can't get that excited for the fight. 

What happens to Forrest now? Seems fishy.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

I can't imagine how the UFC can justify this if this is indeed true.

They're completely destroying their credibility as a legit sport by giving Edgar and Sonnen title fights without fighting in the division first.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

The UFC is watching TUF plummet in ratings and they know they only have one hope of saving that show and that hope is Chael Sonnen. Love him hate him but dammit you will want to hear what he says next and you will watch.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

I can see it right now.... 

Sonnen: "The guy's a joke, he's always been a joke, and everyone fell for it ... except this guy. Listen, I'm just telling the truth, I'm the pound for pound baddest man on the planet and this guy knows it. That's why he ran out on me at UFC 151”

Bones: "well..... you're a big doo-doo head!"


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

It's confirmed.

http://mmajunkie.com/news/31166/jon...the-ultimate-fighter-17-fight-on-april-27.mma

I'll watch but I really can't get behind Chael getting a title shot coming off a loss to Anderson.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> I'll watch but I really can't get behind Chael getting a title shot coming off a loss to Anderson.


Chael should get title shots in any division he likes.


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

It will be good TV at least:thumbsup:


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

This is gonna be awesome!


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> It's confirmed.
> 
> http://mmajunkie.com/news/31166/jon...the-ultimate-fighter-17-fight-on-april-27.mma
> 
> I'll watch but I really can't get behind Chael getting a title shot coming off a loss to Anderson.


You got to be ******* kidding me. Why would they do something like this? A major, major hit to the legitimacy of the entire organization. They are taking a big step toward the WWE and one major leap away from a legitimate sports league. The is the worst move in Zuffa history.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Apparently you can talk your way into a championship twice. This means no fight for the title holder til how long...

To the poster ^. It doesn't make sense, but their ratings are at a all time low. This will do the trick.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> Apparently you can talk your way into a championship twice. This means no fight for the title holder til how long...
> 
> To the poster ^. It doesn't make sense, but their ratings are at a all time low. This will do the trick.


Sonnen earned both of his MW title shots. He really shouldn't be in the consideration tbh. I lve the fight and coaches but it really makes no sense. 

So Hendo has to fight Machida in order to get the crack now? After a guy who's last fight in the division was years ago.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

LyotoLegion

Didn't you back Sonnen HARD through the Silva stuff? Did you love his trash talk and backed his positions?

People like yourself who ate up the Sonnen/Silva stuff are the people that made the UFC give Sonnen things for his mouth. Opened up the gates to more weird trash talk from other guys. And opened the door on the new way to get big fights.

I told all the Sonnen lovers that Sonnen right then and there was creating a WWE enviornment. People went crazy over Sonnen's talk and WWE stunts.

So it isn't some surprise that the UFC would back fighters who spark fan interest and raise viewers. 

The UFC will give you what you buy in to. Sonnen fans and non-fans gave so much press to that circus that of course the UFC would try to do it again. Now on national TV.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> LyotoLegion
> 
> Didn't you back Sonnen HARD through the Silva stuff? Did you love his trash talk and backed his positions?
> 
> ...


I do like Chael and I do like his trash talk, I think he's a funny guy and I am going to watch him on TUF.

But, this is the second time the UFC has done this now, with Jones/Sonnen and Aldo/Edgar giving guys title shots coming off losses, I didn't really have that much of a problem because I felt Edgar beat Bendo, twice, but there was really no debate who won Silva/Sonnen II.

The UFC claims to be a legit sport, yet this goes against everything a sport is. This is like the NBA automatically putting the Heat and the Lakers in the Finals because everyone would watch.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Not another season with Greg Jackson's team... at least this time I'll get to see them verbally humiliated every week.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

This makes no sense whatsoever. It has to be just a rumor.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> I do like Chael and I do like his trash talk, I think he's a funny guy and I am going to watch him on TUF.
> 
> But, this is the second time the UFC has done this now, with Jones/Sonnen and Aldo/Edgar giving guys title shots coming off losses, I didn't really have that much of a problem because I felt Edgar beat Bendo, twice, but there was really no debate who won Silva/Sonnen II.
> 
> *The UFC claims to be a legit sport, yet this goes against everything a sport is. This is like the NBA automatically putting the Heat and the Lakers in the Finals because everyone would watch*.


This is what me makes me so mad about this bullshit move. It's moving closer to the WWE and further away from NBA, NFL ect.


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> I do like Chael and I do like his trash talk, I think he's a funny guy and I am going to watch him on TUF.
> 
> But, this is the second time the UFC has done this now, with Jones/Sonnen and Aldo/Edgar giving guys title shots coming off losses, I didn't really have that much of a problem because I felt Edgar beat Bendo, twice, but there was really no debate who won Silva/Sonnen II.
> 
> The UFC claims to be a legit sport, yet this goes against everything a sport is. This is like the NBA automatically putting the Heat and the Lakers in the Finals because everyone would watch.


I agree and I don't like it. Furthermore it's another reason to never trust a single word Dana says. If my memory is not mistaken he said not too long ago Chael had to rack up three solid wins to even be in contention for the LHW title. I like Chael but I'm a sports fan first and foremost, and this is not a good move for the sport of MMA.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> I do like Chael and I do like his trash talk, I think he's a funny guy and I am going to watch him on TUF.
> 
> But, this is the second time the UFC has done this now, with Jones/Sonnen and Aldo/Edgar giving guys title shots coming off losses, I didn't really have that much of a problem because I felt Edgar beat Bendo, twice, but there was really no debate who won Silva/Sonnen II.
> 
> The UFC claims to be a legit sport, yet this goes against everything a sport is. This is like the NBA automatically putting the Heat and the Lakers in the Finals because everyone would watch.


You can't expect the UFC not to do what makes them the most money. You are one of the many that sway them that direction with eating up everything Sonnen says.

The UFC is not the NBA. It is a private company. The NBA has 30 owners, a players union, a CEO. There is no comparison. 

Not sure why people are expecting this "legit sport" thing. I hear about it from a bunch of people but everyone still watches anyway. You expect the UFC to sidestep the avenue to make a big chunk of money and opt for the more legit avenue with low rating and less money? It isn't candy and roses.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

OUSOONERSOU said:


> This is what me makes me so mad about this bullshit move. It's moving closer to the WWE and further away from NBA, NFL ect.


Ignorance is bliss.

You guys thinking this way are just delusional. The UFC IS closer to the WWE than the NFL, MLB, NBA. Accept it. 

It is about ratings. It is about PPV buys. 

Expecting a private company to bypass income for the sake of becoming this "legit" sport is very delusional. 

They give you guys what you buy. This is a direct result of every that buys Sonnen's mouth. If all thee people ignored Sonnen, or at least didn't eat it up as much, the UFC wouldn't of made this fight.

But fans have spoken. You guys ate up Sonnen's antics in mass numbers. The UFC is giving you what you are interested in. These people were more interested in Sonnen's mouth then....So the UFC gave you weeks of Sonnen's mouth for free.

See how that works? It really isn't too complicated.


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## Ming Fu (May 10, 2010)

Well this is just dumb. I will watch TUF because I want to see how Jon Jones acts infront of the camera. I want to see if Chael can make him snap, but I am not looking forward to the fight what so ever. Jones will just destroy Chael. Booooo UFC boooo.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

This is just because the UFC needs TUF to get better ratings.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Ignorance is bliss.
> 
> You guys thinking this way are just delusional. The UFC IS closer to the WWE than the NFL, MLB, NBA. Accept it.
> 
> ...


It makes me sick how often the UFC makes it clear it's popularity>performance. This move makes that as clear as ever. It's a slap in the face to fighters out there busting their ass working on actual in cage skills. Really they need to be taking acting classes and trying to get as many twitter followers as possible. That's how you move up the ladder in the UFC these days. It makes me sick.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

OUSOONERSOU said:


> It makes me sick how often the UFC makes it clear it's popularity>performance. This move makes that as clear as ever. It's a slap in the face to fighters out there busting their ass working on actual in cage skills. Really they need to be taking acting classes and trying to get as many twitter followers as possible. That's how you move up the ladder in the UFC these days. It makes me sick.


If it make syou that sick then you should not watch the show.

People have spoke as to what UFC they would rather have. Mouths and drama bring in more viewership than Fitch type fighters. 

If people supported Fitch type fighters and tuned in for them more than guys like Sonnen...the UFC would grant Fitch-like fighters more title shots and big fights.

If people don't like it, they shouldn't give the UFC their money or viewership.

It is that simple.


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

Kind of stupid. I'm all for doing fights people want to see, but you have to draw the line somewhere. I could understand if there was nobody else at LHW. But there's Hendo, Machida, Shogun, and Gus. Not to mention Chael hasn't even won a fight at LHW. This will make TUF more interesting but the fight happening is kind of dumb. Doing Edgar/Aldo with Edgar coming off a loss for a belt nobody cares about is one thing, but this is another.

Besides, Sonnen is NOT a draw. He was in the Silva rematch. His fight against Stann couldn't net 300K buys with two title fights and his fight against Bisping got poor ratings. Dana is planting it in people's minds that he's a draw just because he's entertaining.


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## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Ignorance is bliss.
> 
> You guys thinking this way are just delusional. The UFC IS closer to the WWE than the NFL, MLB, NBA. Accept it.
> 
> ...


Thats it, ratings and PPV buys. They have to feed the machine, It has to happen though, UFC grew so big so fast its time to deal with some growing pains.
This is just the start though, there will be many more " scratch your head " moves in the future with Dana..


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Can people tell me how many fighters outside of Chael Sonnen have ever been able to talk their way into a preferable position in the company? And if you can't, can you at least tell me how many times Chael Sonnen has been able to talk his way into a title shot? Keeping in mind that he of course cleared out the top of the MW division twice before each title shot. What's that? You mean to tell me that this would be the first time anyone in the history of the UFC has managed to talk himself into a title match? Get out of here... and here I was thinking that all of this 'UFC isn't legit, it's fake entertainment' crap was precisely that. 

Drama queens, the lot of you. I think this a strange move myself, but if I had a nickel for every time someone said the UFC was taking a step backwards, I'd be a wealthy man.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Fox is likely leaning hard on the UFC to make this happen as well considering how bad last weeks ratings were. The UFC likely has to do this to keep the deal alive.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Also people fail to realize that the NBA and NFL are playoffs. They have a predetermined regular season. Then have basically a form of an MMA GP to determine who is the champ.

If the UFC was built on tournements they couldn't do this. They could create the brackets to set up certain fighters/fights. But they pick the fights. So there is a big difference in saying "the NBA doesn't just put Miami and the Lakers in the championship". Well it is because they can't. They have a playoff format. If they could, they would. People are fans of certain teams and care much less about the best teams than MMA fans care about the big fights. If the NBA were to not give crappy teams a chance to prove themselves whole markets would vanish. Not the case in MMA. Hendo loses his chance at the title, it isn't like Hendo fans won't watch Sonnen/Bones.


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## prolyfic (Apr 22, 2007)

BOO Freaking WHOO

This is a result of Jon not taking the fight with Chael and everyone and their mother jumping on him for not taking it. It gave Chael the opening to trash talk and fans to talk enough abou it to make Dana have to out of saying "this is what the fans wanted". Truth be told this is exactly what the fans asked for...and ofcourse now Jon says you know what "let me give these guys what they want and collect huge checks while never ever being in danger of losing my title". 

Jon I applaud you being smart about taking off about 9 months. Finally all the Jon Jones hate has paid off for Jon. TUF money, Chael fight/ PPV cut money/ probably getting another sponsarship out of this money. I love how all of a sudden this fight makes no sense. It didn't make sense then and it doesnt make sense now but Jon is giving into the ignorant/ commercial fan. This is what the fans want, well give it to them. Jon is laughing all the way to the bank unfortunately so is Chael. Im happy for Jon, "brother needs a new Bently"!!!:happy01:


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Excellent point. Where were all of these outraged and moaning fans when Jon said, 'Chael doesn't deserve this, and that's why I turned him down'? I think the bigger issue here is the shifty MMA fan who, much like the professional wrestling fan, can't make up his mind as to what he wants.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Also people fail to realize that the NBA and NFL are playoffs. They have a predetermined regular season. Then have basically a form of an MMA GP to determine who is the champ.
> 
> If the UFC was built on tournements they couldn't do this. They could create the brackets to set up certain fighters/fights. But they pick the fights. So there is a big difference in saying "the NBA doesn't just put Miami and the Lakers in the championship". Well it is because they can't. They have a playoff format. If they could, they would. People are fans of certain teams and care much less about the best teams than MMA fans care about the big fights. If the NBA were to not give crappy teams a chance to prove themselves whole markets would vanish. Not the case in MMA. Hendo loses his chance at the title, it isn't like Hendo fans won't watch Sonnen/Bones.


Even if you can't compare it to basketball, the UFC will never reach it's goal of being a mainstream sport with things like this.

It's one thing, if the fight's in eight days, and no one will take the fight but one guy, but this isn't the case anymore like it was at one point.

It is pro wrestling-esque booking like you've said, but imagine what Gus, Glover, Hendo, and even Machida and Shogun are thinking right now.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Machida and Shogun ought to be thinking, 'Why did I turn down a title shot?'

I will agree that Henderson should have been offered the coaching gig before Sonnen.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

The UFC can never ever be compared to NBA, NHL,NFL etc, thing is those are team sports. They have play offs that lead to a final on a almost set date. In MMA you have injuries, contract disputes etc that would prevent them from playing out hell look at the joke the SF GP turned out to be. 

The bottom line is its probably more likely that Fox talked the UFC into it than Chael did. The fact that the fans asked for it just makes it easier.



Canadian Psycho said:


> Machida and Shogun ought to be thinking, 'Why did I turn down a title shot?'
> 
> I will agree that Henderson should have been offered the coaching gig before Sonnen.


The ultimate fighter is doing record low numbers right now. Dan Henderson will not change that frankly he was boring the last time he was a coach and Bisping being an ass basically made the season.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

prolyfic said:


> BOO Freaking WHOO
> 
> This is a result of Jon not taking the fight with Chael and everyone and their mother jumping on him for not taking it. It gave Chael the opening to trash talk and fans to talk enough abou it to make Dana have to out of saying "this is what the fans wanted". Truth be told this is exactly what the fans asked for...and ofcourse now Jon says you know what "let me give these guys what they want and collect huge checks while never ever being in danger of losing my title".
> 
> Jon I applaud you being smart about taking off about 9 months. Finally all the Jon Jones hate has paid off for Jon. TUF money, Chael fight/ PPV cut money/ probably getting another sponsarship out of this money. I love how all of a sudden this fight makes no sense. It didn't make sense then and it doesnt make sense now but Jon is giving into the ignorant/ commercial fan. This is what the fans want, well give it to them. Jon is laughing all the way to the bank unfortunately so is Chael. Im happy for Jon, "brother needs a new Bently"!!!:happy01:


This man speaks the truth. I'm not sure this will save TUF, though. It may just do more damage, because Jon is just so goddamn dull outside the cage, and pretty much everyone knows Chael will end up as a read & brown smear on the canvas.



Canadian Psycho said:


> Excellent point. Where were all of these outraged and moaning fans when Jon said, 'Chael doesn't deserve this, and that's why I turned him down'? I think the bigger issue here is the shifty MMA fan who, much like the professional wrestling fan, can't make up his mind as to what he wants.


I don't necessarily disagree, but I think you're treating the MMA fanbase as a single entity rather than a group of individuals. People tend to clamour more about things they don't like, so there may well be different people complaining about this to the people who complained about 151.

Either way, it's done, and it was obvious Chael was getting the shot when Dana was on his nuts after 151. It is what it is. I'm just sorry we didn't get to see him lose to Forrest again.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I was talking about in terms of fairness. In terms of smart business, yes, Chael Sonnen vs. Jon Jones is one of few logical moves for TUF at this point. 

Roy Nelson vs. Shane Carwin on Friday nights was always going to be a death blow. People want entertainers and champions as Coaches, especially if they're going to be bothered watching television on a Friday night.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

prolyfic said:


> This is a result of Jon not taking the fight with Chael and everyone and their mother jumping on him for not taking it. It gave Chael the opening to trash talk and fans to talk enough abou it to make Dana have to out of saying "this is what the fans wanted". Truth be told this is exactly what the fans asked for...and ofcourse now Jon says you know what "let me give these guys what they want and collect huge checks while never ever being in danger of losing my title".
> 
> Jon I applaud you being smart about taking off about 9 months. Finally all the Jon Jones hate has paid off for Jon. TUF money, Chael fight/ PPV cut money/ probably getting another sponsarship out of this money. I love how all of a sudden this fight makes no sense.*It didn't make sense then and it doesnt make sense now but Jon is giving into the ignorant/ commercial fan. This is what the fans want, well give it to them. Jon is laughing all the way to the bank unfortunately so is Chael.* Im happy for Jon, "brother needs a new Bently"!!!:happy01:


I sort of agree with the overall idea of this post.

But I don't think the bolded is true. I don't think he just said screw it I will get money and give into Chael's mouth.

He was about money long before Chael ever stepped up. Do you remember him saying he didn't want to fight Machida next because he did the lowest PPV buys for Bones. Although he only did like 5,000 less than the Shogun fight. Bones went on and on about how he wants to do big PPV buys and Machida isn't that guy. So he saw no worth in fighting him again? DO you remember that?

Bones didn't give in to anything. He has been about wherever the money is before Chael came into the picture. He wanted to fight the guy who would bring in more money not Machida who everyone thought gave him his toughest fight or had the most chance.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Canadian Psycho said:


> I was talking about in terms of fairness. In terms of smart business, yes, Chael Sonnen vs. Jon Jones is one of few logical moves for TUF at this point.
> 
> Roy Nelson vs. Shane Carwin on Friday nights was always going to be a death blow. People want entertainers and champions as Coaches, especially if they're going to be bothered watching television on a Friday night.


I don't know what they expected from Nelson/Carwin, this season was doomed from the start.


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## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

What happens if Forest beats him?


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

This is going to be hilarious television by far.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I don't get why everyone hates it so much as a fight. Really I think Chael gets smashed but I think he has better chance than Shogun, Hendo or Machida who have the combined chance of a snowball in hell.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Hawndo said:


> What happens if Forest beats him?


He's not fighting Forrest anymore.

Taping begins at the end of the month.


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## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> He's not fighting Forrest anymore.
> 
> Taping begins at the end of the month.


Where did you read that? I didn't see it in the article - makes sense though now you mention it haha

I like this, Nelson and Carwin aren't particularly exciting and the fights have only been okay. It kinda needs two exciting coaches to rejuvinate the show. I think Jones will smash him though.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Cancelling my ESPN UK subscription tomorrow. This sport really is turning into a damn farce.

Giant loopholes in the drug testing systems encouraging more and more fighters to abuse TRT, whilst other fighters get suspended more for using recreational drugs.

Injuries plaguing the sport and ruining fantastic match ups/cards because of this new insurance policy

Dana White getting worse and worse with his contradictory, hypocritical bullshit.

Fighters unfairly talking their way into a title shot.

I've been a fan of this sport for 8 years and I really think that in this last year or so, the sport has really been taking a turn for the worse.

Illegal downloading and streaming for me Dana (when I can be bothered). I'm not supporting this mans product any more.

The fans are just as much to blame for swallowing up all of Sonnens shit for the past couple of years.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Cancelling my ESPN UK subscription tomorrow. This sport really is turning into a damn farce.
> 
> Giant loopholes in the drug testing systems encouraging more and more fighters to abuse TRT, whilst other fighters get suspended more for using recreational drugs.
> 
> ...


Chael didn't do anything wrong, he's created a brand for himself that allowed him to make money outside and after fighting.

The UFC choosing to pass up Gus, Hendo, Glover, and even Machida and Shogun all coming off wins for a guy who hasn't won a fight let alone fight at 205 lbs in five years is to blame.

They're also the same people to blame for Frankie Edgar, whose never fought at Featherweight passing up the Korean Zombie for a title shot.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

How on earth do they give Chael Sonnen a title fight at LHW?


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Chael didn't do anything wrong, he's created a brand for himself that allowed him to make money outside and after fighting.
> 
> The UFC choosing to pass up Gus, Hendo, Glover, and even Machida and Shogun all coming off wins for a guy who hasn't won a fight let alone fight at 205 lbs in five years is to blame.
> 
> They're also the same people to blame for Frankie Edgar, whose never fought at Featherweight passing up the Korean Zombie for a title shot.


I didn't say Chael did any thing wrong.

The fans are also to blame though. Look at Roiderreem getting an instant title shot after being suspended for being caught red handed for abusing drugs.

Why is he getting that shot? Partly because the fans don't care if he's roided out of his mind, they just want to see him fight.

It's a farce. Overeem should have to fight two top level HW's minimum to get back into title contention for what he's done. Sonnen should also have to go through the same treatment.

How long until Dana and co start fixing fights like the WWE? 3 years? Less? It's slowly becoming less and less of a legitimate sport.

A part in the back of my mind thinks that maybe Bonnar took a dive against Silva, but we'll save that for another day.


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Certainly makes me glad I ordered one of those Sonnen Says shirts hahaha. I'm pumped for the trash talk alone man. IT IS GONNA BE EPIC IF THIS HAPPENS!


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

GrappleRetarded said:


> I didn't say Chael did any thing wrong.
> 
> The fans are also to blame though. Look at Roiderreem getting an instant title shot after being suspended for being caught red handed for abusing drugs.
> 
> ...


I don't think Bonnar took a dive, Bonnar on his best day could have fought Anderson on his worst and the outcome would have been the same, he's just not that good.

It also doesn't help Anderson kneed him right in the guts, I like Chael and Frankie but I don't like the situation, Machida/Hendo and Shogun/Gus are probably gonna have to fight now and that takes two contenders, especially in the case that Dan and Gus win and would be two fresh faces for Jones since he's already fought Machida and Shogun.


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## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

Don't care, haven't watched TUF since season 9.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> I don't think Bonnar took a dive, Bonnar on his best day could have fought Anderson on his worst and the outcome would have been the same, he's just not that good.
> 
> It also doesn't help Anderson kneed him right in the guts, I like Chael and Frankie but I don't like the situation, Machida/Hendo and Shogun/Gus are probably gonna have to fight now and that takes two contenders, especially in the case that Dan and Gus win and would be two fresh faces for Jones since he's already fought Machida and Shogun.


Anderson is excellent, but Bonnar has never really come close to being stopped from strikes (let alone a single strike) and I honestly thought Bonnars reaction to the knee was over dramatic (the look on his face when the knee landed).

I'm not saying I believe it was a dive, but there is always that little doubt in my mind, especially with the UFC modelling their brand so much around the WWE more and more it seems.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Anderson is excellent, but Bonnar has never really come close to being stopped from strikes (let alone a single strike) and I honestly thought Bonnars reaction to the knee was over dramatic (the look on his face when the knee landed).
> 
> I'm not saying I believe it was a dive, but there is always that little doubt in my mind, especially with the UFC modelling their brand so much around the WWE more and more it seems.


The thing here is you fell for the UFC "Bonnar best chin of all time" type of hype. Only way they could hype that fight.

Who had Bonnar faced that was a real good striker or had great power? He fought a bunch of nobodies. Or guys he easily took down and handled on the ground. Or guys with pillow fists (Forrest twice). His biggest wins were basically Forrest, who Anderson let punch him in the face. Even his crappy wins were against guy with little shot of ending fights with strikes.

Don't get me wrong. Bonnar is very tough. And has a good chin. But it isn't like he walked through dynamite like a Hendo. His chin was good but it wasn't as proven as people started to believe.

Plus it wasn't a chin issue. He hit him right to the chest and Bonnar explains how it sort of paralyzed him for a second. Enough to where Anderson got over him and reigned hard shots. He still never went out.

So I don't see how it even looks a little like a dive.


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I can't believe people think the UFC wanted this all along and think its a coincidence the decision came out the day after the ratings for TUF which hit record lows. Fox wanted this to try and revive TUF. Sonnen/Bones fighting is just a by product of that.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Anderson is excellent, but Bonnar has never really come close to being stopped from strikes (let alone a single strike) and I honestly thought Bonnars reaction to the knee was over dramatic (the look on his face when the knee landed).
> 
> I'm not saying I believe it was a dive, but there is always that little doubt in my mind, especially with the UFC modelling their brand so much around the WWE more and more it seems.


I can see why your upsed with the UFC and it's actions in recent times but this is just madness. That was a ferocious knee from Anderson Silva, who just happens to be one of the best strikers in the history of MMA right into the solar plexus. No way he could've taken a dive.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Remember when people whined that Vitor getting an out-of-nowhere title shot against Jones would delegitimize the sport, and it actually resulted in one of the most entertaining LHW championship bouts in years, a bout in which Jones was almost stopped? Remember when people moaned that a retired Stephan Bonnar facing a MW fighter in Anderson Silva would delegitimize the sport, and it actually ended up being one of the crowning moments on one of the greatest PPVs we've had in years? 

My point? Stop talking about the legitimacy of the sport. None of you has a clue.


----------



## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Remember when people whined that Vitor getting an out-of-nowhere title shot against Jones would delegitimize the sport, and it actually resulted in one of the most entertaining LHW championship bouts in years, a bout in which Jones was almost stopped? Remember when people moaned that a retired Stephan Bonnar facing a MW fighter in Anderson Silva would delegitimize the sport, and it actually ended up being one of the crowning moments on one of the greatest PPVs we've had in years?
> 
> My point? Stop talking about the legitimacy of the sport. None of you has a clue.


That's not really the point though. No one is arguing that Jones vs Sonnen for TUF and then the title will be entertaining, and draw a lot of money and attention, but it still undermines the legitimacy of the sport when the only organization that matters constantly goes for money and ratings ahead of actual results and competitiveness. I might be naive for thinking a private company will turn down big money, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

luckbox said:


> That's not really the point though. No one is arguing that Jones vs Sonnen for TUF and then the title will be entertaining, and draw a lot of money and attention, but it still undermines the legitimacy of the sport when the only organization that matters constantly goes for money and ratings ahead of actual results and competitiveness. I might be naive for thinking a private company will turn down big money, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.


It's precisely the point. If the end result is a competitive and/or spectacular match, how does that delegitimize the sport? Vitor was gifted a title shot and he performed better than Shogun, Jackson, Rashad, and Machida combined. His skill and his heart were on full display, as were Jon's, who overcame adversity en route to another impressive stoppage. Tell me how the UFC is any worse off following that fight. Or Bonnar vs. Silva. Please tell me how either fight has tarnished MMA. 

And I'm tired of people saying that this happens all of the time. Not since Dan Hardy has someone so blatantly been gifted a title shot. I'll be the first to admit that Henderson should be up next, but undeserving fighters reaping the benefits of their showmanship is hardly a daily occurrence in the UFC, and people honestly need to quit acting as thought it is. This is a business and a sport. More often than not, fighters will pay their dues and earn their stripes. But sometimes, just sometimes, the UFC will put on a fight that the fans have been chomping at the bit to see. That doesn't make the UFC a circus.


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## MoopsiePuffs (Jan 16, 2007)

So we won't see Jones fight again until April and the fight we see at that time will be a one-sided beat down of someone who has a losing record as a UFC LHW?


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

davelewis2k6 said:


> So we won't see Jones fight again until April and the fight we see at that time will be a one-sided beat down of someone who has a losing record as a UFC LHW?


Anyone Jon Jones faces is likely to end in a one-sided beat down.


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## MoopsiePuffs (Jan 16, 2007)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Anyone Jon Jones faces is likely to end in a one-sided beat down.


There are still more competitive fights out there. Hendo, Machida and Gus would be more interesting.

On a side note, is there a way for me to get a notification when someone quotes me?


----------



## JoeRashed (Jan 11, 2012)

That would be sick TV ! but come on, Chael doesn't deserve to be facing the LHW champ! what has he done in LHW ? nothing!

it's gonna be fun though


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> The thing here is you fell for the UFC "Bonnar best chin of all time" type of hype. Only way they could hype that fight.
> 
> Who had Bonnar faced that was a real good striker or had great power? He fought a bunch of nobodies. Or guys he easily took down and handled on the ground. Or guys with pillow fists (Forrest twice). His biggest wins were basically Forrest, who Anderson let punch him in the face. Even his crappy wins were against guy with little shot of ending fights with strikes.
> 
> ...


That wasn't any UFC Bonnar has a great chin hype. His physical toughness speaks for itself.

In 23 professional fights Stephan hadn't been stopped once due to strikes, only cuts. The results speak for themselves. He's as tough as nails and has proven that throughout his career.

False hype would imply I was buying into believing Bonnar had a chance against Anderson (which deep down no one really believed).

I didn't say it was a chin issue either, you did. I said that Bonnar is one of the toughest LHW's in the sport and has never been stopped due to strikes, or really even come close to. He got brutalised by Jon Jones but still kept getting back up and coming for more.

I didn't say it was a dive either, I said that there is a little part in the back of my mind that has me doubting.



Rauno said:


> I can see why your upsed with the UFC and it's actions in recent times but this is just madness. That was a ferocious knee from Anderson Silva, who just happens to be one of the best strikers in the history of MMA right into the solar plexus. No way he could've taken a dive.


I agree, but Stephan Bonnar is also a company man and I think would do ANY THING to satisfy Dana and the UFC. If Dana said to Bonnar, here's a million for you to take a dive, there is no doubt in my mind that company man Bonnar would take the offer.

Again, I'm not saying I believe it was, but there's still a little bit of doubt when you take all of the sports short comings into consideration.



Canadian Psycho said:


> Remember when people whined that Vitor getting an out-of-nowhere title shot against Jones would delegitimize the sport, and it actually resulted in one of the most entertaining LHW championship bouts in years, a bout in which Jones was almost stopped? Remember when people moaned that a retired Stephan Bonnar facing a MW fighter in Anderson Silva would delegitimize the sport, and it actually ended up being one of the crowning moments on one of the greatest PPVs we've had in years?
> 
> My point? Stop talking about the legitimacy of the sport. None of you has a clue.


Vitor Belfort was on a two fight winning streak against decent enough competition. Both of those fights ending in first round stoppages. He was also a proven former UFC LHW champion.

On top of that, stylistically, he was also a very interesting match up for Jon Jones (only a few of us on the forum seemed to believe that though).

Chael Sonnens last fight was for the title and ended in a TKO in the second round. You should never, ever be granted a title shot after losing a shot for it in your last fight. That is just absolutely absurd and it's things like that which suck the legitamcey out of this sport.


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Why not just do Chael/Forrest for TUF? At least Faber wins a fight before getting his undeserved title shots.


----------



## MoopsiePuffs (Jan 16, 2007)

osmium said:


> Why not just do Chael/Forrest for TUF? At least Faber wins a fight before getting his undeserved title shots.


A Chael/Forrest series would be fun to watch, but the ratings would be no where near the level of Chael/Jones. TUF is losing viewers every year so they are trying to make the most money and attract the most viewers. The whole thing feels very WWE to me.


----------



## duckyou666 (Mar 17, 2011)

Toxic said:


> The UFC is watching TUF plummet in ratings and they know they only have one hope of saving that show and that hope is Chael Sonnen. Love him hate him but dammit you will want to hear what he says next and you will watch.


Even Fail Sonnen, the loudest mouthed idiot anywhere, ever, won't be able to do a damn thing for the ratings. The ratings have very little to do with what coaches they have. It's mainly due to the Friday night time slot. Their main demographic, which is male 18-30, or something like that. Friday night at that time, most single males under the age of 50 are out. Hell, I have yet to see a live episode of TUF since they started showing Friday nights.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

GrappleRetarded said:


> That wasn't any UFC Bonnar has a great chin hype. His physical toughness speaks for itself.
> 
> In 23 professional fights Stephan hadn't been stopped once due to strikes, only cuts. The results speak for themselves. He's as tough as nails and has proven that throughout his career.
> 
> ...



You missed my point or avoided it. Bonnar is tough as hell. But no fighter other than Machida (who stopped him on cuts even when he was a cautious fighter) is anywhere in the same world as Anderson.

Anderson isn't Igor, Forrest, or Mike Nikels. 

Looking at the lack of powerful strikers Bonnar has faced it doesn't surprise me that he has never been KO'd or TKO'd. Not saying he isn't tough as hell. But he hadn't faced any KO or TKO artists. James Irvin? Who he quickly sub'd. Igor. Those are probably his 2 biggest puncher he has ever faced. 1 sucked and is out of the UFC. Igor is a mainstay bottom rung LHW. 

The fact that he has never been TKO'd KO'd is overrated. A guy like Hendo? No. When you have faced, Lil Nog, Big Nog, Rampage, Shogun, Anderson, Fedor, Feijao, Wandy and have NEVER been KO'd or TKO'd then THAT is saying something.


----------



## duckyou666 (Mar 17, 2011)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Anderson is excellent, but Bonnar has never really come close to being stopped from strikes (let alone a single strike) and *I honestly thought Bonnars reaction to the knee was over dramatic* (the look on his face when the knee landed).
> 
> I'm not saying I believe it was a dive, but there is always that little doubt in my mind, especially with the UFC modelling their brand so much around the WWE more and more it seems.


Obviously you have never been in any kind of fight ever. If you had, then you would probably know how much it sucks to get hit in the body. Just taking a solid punch to the stomach sucks hella cack. But taking a knee, or any kind of strike, to the Solar Plexes, just below the breast bone, is 100% debilitating. You ask anybody that has ever Boxed, and they will tell you that they'd much rather get hit in the jaw than in the bread basket, or anywhere in the body.


----------



## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Anderson is excellent, but Bonnar has never really come close to being stopped from strikes (let alone a single strike) and I honestly thought Bonnars reaction to the knee was over dramatic (the look on his face when the knee landed).
> 
> I'm not saying I believe it was a dive, but there is always that little doubt in my mind, especially with the UFC modelling their brand so much around the WWE more and more it seems.


If any fight was a dive, it was Nog/Herman, Herman gave that armbar, I don't know if it was a dive or if Herman just wanted out but he clearly gave up.



davelewis2k6 said:


> So we won't see Jones fight again until April and the fight we see at that time will be a one-sided beat down of someone who has a losing record as a UFC LHW?


Jones' arm was mangled up from that Vitor armbar.

Canadian Pyscho pointed that out, and he's not wrong, Vitor did do a good job but it's like I said, it's a different circumstance when it's short notice and no one is stepping up than the situation where we're in October and Jones and Sonnen have a fight booked for April.

You just wouldn't see this in any sport, whether it's Basketball or Golf or Tennis the guys who always get to the big game/fight usually have to win to get there, Chael in this case, hasn't. Is this push from FOX? Is this the UFC "jumping the shark"? Who knows, but the UFC will never be where they wanna be with decision making like this.

The best thing that could happen for MMA right now is to break away from PPV.


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

duckyou666 said:


> Obviously you have never been in any kind of fight ever. If you had, then you would probably know how much it sucks to get hit in the body. Just taking a solid punch to the stomach sucks hella cack. But taking a knee, or any kind of strike, to the Solar Plexes, just below the breast bone, is 100% debilitating. You ask anybody that has ever Boxed, and they will tell you that they'd much rather get hit in the jaw than in the bread basket, or anywhere in the body.


I've been in fights and I know how excruciating it is to get hit with a well placed body shot. That said, I've never given a facial expression after being hit which suggests I'm suffering from severe constipation.

Typically with body shots there is also normally a delayed reaction (Jon Jones/Vitor Belfort, Overeem/Lesnar) at least from my experience. Bonnar hit the floor like a sack of spuds.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

That knee was brutal.


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## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

Toxic said:


> The ultimate fighter is doing record low numbers right now.


Personally, I think its because we have had 15 seasons of the same rehashed television, in a span of 7 years.

I dont care to watch a male version of Jersey Shore, with a 5-10 minute MMA fight at the end.

Personally, I didnt care who was coaching. It was the fighters. But after this many seasons, its become all the same.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

RedRocket44 said:


> Personally, I think its because we have had 15 seasons of the same rehashed television, in a span of 7 years.
> 
> I dont care to watch a male version of Jersey Shore, with a 5-10 minute MMA fight at the end.
> 
> Personally, I didnt care who was coaching. It was the fighters. But after this many seasons, its become all the same.


You obviously have never seen Jersey Shore.


----------



## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Everyone's trippin. I can't wait for the next TUF... or the actual fight. Good move by Dana IMO.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> I've been in fights and I know how excruciating it is to get hit with a well placed body shot. That said, I've never given a facial expression after being hit which suggests I'm suffering from severe constipation.
> 
> Typically with body shots there is also normally a delayed reaction (Jon Jones/Vitor Belfort, Overeem/Lesnar) at least from my experience. Bonnar hit the floor like a sack of spuds.


Iv had the wind knocked out of me in sparring and its certainly alot worse then getting hit in the jaw. My reaction was to pretend like im not hurt and put a huge smile on my face which made it obvious that i was hurt. I can imagine that a knee to my solar plex from Anderson Silva would certainly instantly drop me to my knees.


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> They're completely destroying their credibility as a legit sport


I think they're starting to embrace that the UFC isn't really a legit sport and is more of a spectacle honestly. And that's fine with me. Bring back crazy PRIDE lady!


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## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> You obviously have never seen Jersey Shore.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0u80kjVUbc

FULL MOUNT!

Honestly, TUF has become 10x worse than Jersey Shore. Id probably pick Jersey Shore over TUF at this point.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

RedRocket44 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0u80kjVUbc
> 
> FULL MOUNT!
> 
> Honestly, TUF has become 10x worse than Jersey Shore. Id probably pick Jersey Shore over TUF at this point.


Jersey Shore is awesome, but it was better when they were all single. TUF is nothing like it though, just cause they get a drunken lunatic doesn't mean they party it up like MVP, even though Mike is sober now.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Literally giving a title shot to a guy coming off a loss. 

LHW confirmed for worst division in the sport.

The best thing that could possibly happen is this fight does like 550k buys and Chael Sonnen crawls in a hole somewhere.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Literally giving a title shot to a guy coming off a loss.
> 
> LHW confirmed for worst division in the sport.
> 
> The best thing that could possibly happen is this fight does like 550k buys and Chael Sonnen crawls in a hole somewhere.


 The LHW division looked stacked till Jon Jones came along and raised the bar above everyone's heads.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Toxic said:


> The LHW division looked stacked till Jon Jones came along and raised the bar above everyone's heads.


No the LHW looked stacked like 7 years ago until the same ******* fighters from 7 years ago are still in the "top 10". The absolute dearth of prospects and the amount of cherrypicking in that division holding any sort of progress makes it a joke. Glover Texiera is a rare 32 year old coming from another organization ready to fight top 10 fighters immediately....he can't get fights.

Phil Davis is an awesome super prospect, he gets rushed and looks like crap against Rashad and then people dont even think he can beat Wagner Prado(another 5 star prospect who had no business fighting Phil Davis).....huge problems abound in this pathetic division.


The LHW Division is like the San Antonio Spurs/Boston Celtics of the UFC.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

To be fair...

Chael gave Anderson his biggest fight to date. He certainly gave Anderson a MUCH better fight then all 3 LHWs did. Vitor also came the closest to finishing Jon Jones. (And Vitor came from MW)

So ignoring the whole "Process of Elimination" we get through Rankings.

Chael could technically give Jones his toughest fight to date.


Im not saying he deserves the title shot in the slightest. Im just mostly thinking out loud. 

Jones says Bonnar was his toughest opponent. Anderson toyed with Bonnar. Chael gave Anderson his toughest fight.

So maybe its possible that Chael will put up a great fight.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

I agree with that.

Has many names on the downside of their careers. Good fighters. But the same 5 guys fight eachother. Rampage got a cheap title shot and now is on brink of retirement. Tito was getting a fight with Rashad. Forrest a former title holder is all but done. Shogun is deteriorating. 

After Sonnen their last 2 challengers will be 185ers that recently lost in 185 title fights. 

If Shogun beats Gustaf. And Rampage beats Tex the division is in real trouble. 

Not sure why they rushed this Sonnen crap. Why not get Hendo in there while he is still this side of 50? They could have always done Sonnen and TUF next year. Could of done Jones and Hendo around the 1st of the year.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I agree with that.
> 
> Has many names on the downside of their careers. Good fighters. But the same 5 guys fight eachother. Rampage got a cheap title shot and now is on brink of retirement. Tito was getting a fight with Rashad. Forrest a former title holder is all but done. Shogun is deteriorating.
> 
> ...


Yeah i agree.

It would have been better to give Hendo a crack at Jones and give Chael a gimmie fight at 205. Then they could have set up a TUF with Chael and Jones... Just let Chael know in advance and he would have started hyping it from the start.


----------



## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm a little miffed by all this TBH. I don't give a shit about the stupid reality show, and Chael's act has been stale for a while now. _This will be Jones' second title fight in a row against a guy that hasn't won a fight in the division in the last 5 years._

I was probably going to bet big on Forrest beating Chael (If he struggled to get Bisping down why should we assume he would beat a much bigger Forrest?). 

Chael is going to talk circles around Bones on the show and in the pre-fight hype, then get embarrassed by Bones and we all know it. 

Such a stupid half-baked attempt to generate buzz for the TV show.... :thumbsdown:


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## Tiptup (Mar 12, 2012)

So the internet fans are pissed off. I guess Dana can comfort himself with the big stack of money this will draw. 

This decision would annoy me if it wasn't that there are no other legitimate claims for the title. I'm sure one will appear by the time Jones beats Chael. 

Lets face it Gusty is not ready. If he beats Rua then great he can fight JBJ after Chael. Teixiera hasn't fought anyone ranked high enough. If he beats rampage then great he can fight JBJ after Chael. Phil Davis beats a high ranked guy on Rashad's level? Then great he can fight JBJ after Chael. I for one don't want to see anyone fight Jones who has already lost to him especially those who have already turned down the match aka Machida. So no-one is really worthy at this point of fighting JBJ including Chael. Might as well cash in on that match whilst you can. The TUF show needs a massive boost so they might as well do that whilst they can. It's a win win situation for all involved. 

If you want things booked like a real sport. Go watch Bellator. I don't see how this situation is any different to what they did with Shamrock and Ortiz.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I think its funny people still think Hendo has a chance. Henderson is 42, he wasn't good enough to become champ 5 years ago when he was younger. The guys who were good enough to be champ then have all gotten smashed and yet some how people think Henderson is gonna pull off the upset. Don't be fooled Dan has no chance despite being probably the most underrated guy of his generation he is simply of another generation. He is a guy far past his prime who has no notable advantage in any aspect of the fight and wouldn't have even if he was 5 or 10 years younger. Don't let the knockouts over B fighters and some wins over guys who haven't aged as gracefully fool you into thinking the fight had a chance of being competitive.


----------



## 3DLee (Aug 30, 2006)

St.Paul Guy said:


> I'm a little miffed by all this TBH. I don't give a shit about the stupid reality show, and Chael's act has been stale for a while now. _This will be Jones' second title fight in a row against a guy that hasn't won a fight in the division in the last 5 years._
> 
> I was probably going to bet big on Forrest beating Chael (If he struggled to get Bisping down why should we assume he would beat a much bigger Forrest?).
> 
> ...


Stupid and half baked attempt? This is genius. Is it FAIR? Not in the least. Hendo is the rightful contender IMO. But is it smart? **** yeah. TUF's ratings are in the shitter. What do you do? Put your 2 biggest stars on the show (just like they used to). Membah when we had superstar coaches like Couture, Liddell, Hughes, Franklin, Shamrock, Ortiz? I like Shane Carwin and Roy Nelson. But theyre doing nothing for the show. Theyre not huge names. But I think that this may be the biggest thing for TUF since TUF 3. 


Summary: IMO for the hardcore fans this is meh. We already new the fight would happen. But for the UFC and the general public, this will be huge. This will be what Chael v Andy 2 COULD've been. Im taking an earlier ppv prediction of 1.5mil.


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Hey look at the situation in a positive light, Chael SOnnen is doing Jon Jones a favor, this is an easy fight for Jones. In the process he will become more popular and richer.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Literally giving a title shot to a guy coming off a loss.
> 
> LHW confirmed for worst division in the sport.
> 
> The best thing that could possibly happen is this fight does like 550k buys and Chael Sonnen crawls in a hole somewhere.


This amount of hurt could only be butt.

Who cares. Jones has *practically* cleared out LHW. Chael will probably lose. We will see Jones lose his temper and come off sounding like a whiney girl several times on the reality show. I don't see a single negative thing about this.


----------



## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

LHW has been the worst division for awhile now. The fact that Jones is now facing two middleweight fighters in a row shows that. They're not even ranked at LHW. One is even coming off a loss. FFS, some Top 10 lists even have Forrest Griffin and Gegard Mousasi in the top 10.


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## atm1982 (Feb 26, 2008)

Who else could Jones fight? Sure , Sonnen hasn't earned a shot in the traditional sense, ie by winning, but he was the only guy who stepped up to fight the champ on a weeks notice. Lyoto and Shogun both turned it down. 

This fact alone adds some legitimacy to his shot. This and he dominated Anderson Silva, the greatest fighter of all time, in 5 of 7 rounds over two fights. Sure he didn't win but it raised his stock. Noone has even come that close to winning Silva. 

He hasn't just talked himself into a title shot...he is the only option right now. The LHW division is weak. Probably the weakest out of the original four divisions.


----------



## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

atm1982 said:


> He hasn't just talked himself into a title shot...he is the only option right now. The LHW division is weak. Probably the weakest out of the original four divisions.


There is no original 4 divisions.

First it was openweight, then at UFC 12 they changed the tournement format to make a HW and a LW tournament, at UFC 28 we had a LW, MW, HW and Super Heavyweight division, by UFC 31 it had changed to LW, WW, MW, LHW and HW. Then in early 2011 BW and FW were added as the UFC absorbed the WEC and Flyweight was begun at the Mighty Mouse V Uncle Creepy 1 Card.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Not too long ago people were saying that LHW is by far the toughest division.

Funny how things change. And aint no one even retire to make that happen.


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

AlphaDawg said:


> LHW has been the worst division for awhile now. The fact that Jones is now facing two middleweight fighters in a row shows that. They're not even ranked at LHW. One is even coming off a loss. FFS, some Top 10 lists even have Forrest Griffin and Gegard Mousasi in the top 10.


He's facing those two MWs because of whiny fans that complained about him being afraid of MWs. Also because he's cleaned out the division.

Geez this guy can't do anything right. 

Refuse to fight a MW because duh, it's a middleweight who hasn't earned a damn thing at LHW ... RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE, COWARD, AFRAID, DOUCHE, RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE. 

Relent and accept ... RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE, WEAK DIVISION, TALENTLESS, BEATING BUMS AND MIDDLEWEIGHTS, RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE.

Whiners gonna whine.

Any top LHW would wipe the floor with the overrated clown that is Sonnen or most of the weak MW division other than Anderson. This is the division that made awesome contenders out of LHW failures like Munoz, Stann and Boetsch remember?

And the champ will make Sonnen look like a complete halfwit inside the octagon, after Sonnen's already done half the job with his dumb jokes on national TV. 

I'm very unhappy that the UFC gifted him this shot for his loud mouth, but I will be glad to see him choke on it.


----------



## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Pretty disappointed with the UFC for making this decision. They're giving a guy who is 2-2 in his last four, coming off of a loss, and with a losing record at Light-Heavyweight a title shot simply because he's a masterful trash talker and can hype up a fight? If Chael would have beaten Forrest (and he would have), I would not have complained.

Very unprofessional in my opinion, and very dangerous s to the legitimacy of the sport.


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Ari said:


> Pretty disappointed with the UFC for making this decision. They're giving a guy who is 2-2 in his last four, coming off of a loss, and with a losing record at Light-Heavyweight a title shot simply because he's a masterful trash talker and can hype up a fight? If Chael would have beaten Forrest (and he would have), I would not have complained.
> 
> Very unprofessional in my opinion, and very dangerous s to the legitimacy of the sport.


I think the legitimacy was already lost when they tried to force this unearned fight down Jones' throat as a replacement at 151, instead of the dozens of LHWs who would have jumped at the chance (like Glover I would bet, if not Gustaf/Davis etc.). 

But they forced him to "fight this WWE talking MW and make us money, or we'll cancel the entire card and blame you".

This latest announcement is just more of the same.


----------



## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> I think the legitimacy was already lost when they tried to force this unearned fight down Jones' throat as a replacement at 151, instead of the dozens of LHWs who would have jumped at the chance (like Glover I would bet, if not Gustaf/Davis etc.).
> 
> But they forced him to "fight this WWE talking MW and make us money, or we'll cancel the entire card and blame you".
> 
> This latest announcement is just more of the same.


Jones should have accepted the fight at UFC 151. Regardless of the circumstances, he's a champion headlining a card. 

But I agree. I'd be willing to bet a guy like Glover would have jumped at the chance. Hell, even Bonnar has a 3-0 streak going before he fought Silva, I'm sure he would have jumped at the oppotunity too.

Dana clearly just wants high PPV buyrates at this point. It's sad because I thought the UFC would never stoop to that point.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> I think the legitimacy was already lost when they tried to force this unearned fight down Jones' throat as a replacement at 151, instead of the dozens of LHWs who would have jumped at the chance (like Glover I would bet, if not Gustaf/Davis etc.).
> 
> But they forced him to "fight this WWE talking MW and make us money, or we'll cancel the entire card and blame you".
> 
> This latest announcement is just more of the same.


Yea.

When the LHW Champion is allowed to turn down fights against people not even training. And then the UFC allows him to keep the belt instead of forcing him to forfeit it. You know the legitimacy is ruined... Very WWE.


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> Yea.
> 
> When the LHW Champion is allowed to turn down fights against people not even training. And then the UFC allows him to keep the belt instead of forcing him to forfeit it. You know the legitimacy is ruined... Very WWE.


It's not "allowing" when obviously it must be part of their contract to be able to turn down fights. Previous champs have turned down fights.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> It's not "allowing" when obviously it must be part of their contract to be able to turn down fights. Previous champs have turned down fights.


Hmmm i actually never thought about this.

Does the UFC have the ability to strip someone of the title??? Or would someone have to fail a drug test or something for that to occur??? 

But it ruins the legitimacy of the sport anyway. What other sport can people pick and choose who they go against???

I cant really recall when the last time a champion turned down a fight after a 3 month training camp and not being injured. 

Who is this champion you speak off???

Actually when is the last time a Champion was OFFERED a fight and he turned it down without being injured in general???

I recall Ortiz trying to avoid Chuck Liddel but i cant find any info about Dana offering the contract and Tito turning it down. And we all know what kind of label that put on Ortiz anyway. So thats a pretty bad example.


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> Hmmm i actually never thought about this.
> 
> Does the UFC have the ability to strip someone of the title??? Or would someone have to fail a drug test or something for that to occur???
> 
> ...


I highly doubt the contracts go into detail enough to say "you cannot turn down a fight as champ IF you've had a training camp and there is a last minute replacement a week before the fight from another division" etc. 

I'd imagine it's more a case of "Champ can turn down proposed fight that he is not yet contracted to" or "champ cannot turn down fight proposed by the UFC without losing belt". 

Previous champs that have turned down fights without being injured are Anderson for Sonnen II until it was "earned" again, and Tito turning down Chuck, and also Shamrock a couple of times before he relented for their rematch.

I would think stripping them of the title is an extreme move reserved for appropriate situations based on personal discretion, such as violating the law, leaving the promotion, consistently refusing fights etc.


----------



## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Hmmm i actually never thought about this.
> 
> Does the UFC have the ability to strip someone of the title??? Or would someone have to fail a drug test or something for that to occur???
> 
> ...


Dana was threatening to cut Anderson after the Maia fight..
but Dana's word ain't bond.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> I highly doubt the contracts go into detail enough to say "you cannot turn down a fight as champ IF you've had a training camp and there is a last minute replacement a week before the fight from another division" etc.
> 
> I'd imagine it's more a case of "Champ can turn down proposed fight that he is not yet contracted to" or "champ cannot turn down fight proposed by the UFC without losing belt".
> 
> ...


I know it doesnt go in to that much detail. Not sure why you are bringing that up. Seeing as how that happened i obviously imagine there is nothing in the contract that stops them. Otherwise it wouldnt have happened. 


Can you find me a source where is says Anderson Silva turned down the contract to fight Chael Sonnen??? I know Anderson has made statements like he does not want to fight Chael cause he is disrespectful. But i dont recall ever reading an article where it said Dana offered Anderson the fight and he turned it down. (I could be wrong which is why im asking you to find me the source. Since i cant find it.) Im pretty certain that no one including Dana has ever said that Anderson is refusing to sign the contract to fight Chael.

And the Tito/Chuck thing made Tito look horrible and it made a joke of his title reign. BUT again i cannot find anywhere that states that he turned down the contract. I dont want to ask too much off you BUT can you find me a website where i can read up on that too??? 

And turning down fights when you are champion and picking opponents. Is worthy of having your title stript. If the UFC is a sport that is... But since the UFC will never be a legitimate sport i guess it doesnt matter.


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> I know it doesnt go in to that much detail. Not sure why you are bringing that up. Seeing as how that happened i obviously imagine there is nothing in the contract that stops them. Otherwise it wouldnt have happened.
> 
> 
> Can you find me a source where is says Anderson Silva turned down the contract to fight Chael Sonnen??? I know Anderson has made statements like he does not want to fight Chael cause he is disrespectful. But i dont recall ever reading an article where it said Dana offered Anderson the fight and he turned it down. (I could be wrong which is why im asking you to find me the source. Since i cant find it.) Im pretty certain that no one including Dana has ever said that Anderson is refusing to sign the contract to fight Chael.
> ...


This one here seems to imply Anderson had originally turned down Chael II, and Dana had to "convince" him to sign which implies that he was within his rights to refuse:

http://mmajunkie.com/news/29481/dan...atch-that-almost-wasnt-silva-vs-sonnen-ii.mma

I can't find any for the Chuck Tito one because it was so long back, but I distinctly remember them talking about it in the Tito-Randy and Chuck-Tito promos, so unless they made all that up just to hype stuff, I'd say it was the UFC acknowledging that Tito had refused. 

And Shamrock had interviews saying Ortiz had refused to sign the rematch contract, but again that's Shamrock talking and not the UFC itself. Still has some weight though.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

El Bresko said:


> Dana was threatening to cut Anderson after the Maia fight..
> but Dana's word ain't bond.


You should never take Danas words seriously imo. Especially when it's in the heat of the moment.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> This one here seems to imply Anderson had originally turned down Chael II, and Dana had to "convince" him to sign which implies that he was within his rights to refuse:
> 
> http://mmajunkie.com/news/29481/dan...atch-that-almost-wasnt-silva-vs-sonnen-ii.mma
> 
> ...


What that article implies is that Anderson wanted to fight anyone but Chael but then he ended up signing the contract anyway. So Anderson never turned down the contract to fight Chael. If he turned down the contract to fight Chael at UFC 148 then he wouldnt have fought him at UFC 148. I do wonder if Anderson Silva used the situation in his favor and got some extra $$$$$ out of Dana.

I believe that Tito thing since Tito can be a prick. But i recall him more so trying to discredit Chuck and trying to fight anybody but him. Rather then him actually turning down the contract to fight him. Especially since they did eventually fight... So what changed??? 
But yeah it wouldnt surprise me if Tito did turn down contract to fight Chuck Liddel. But most people acknowledge that Tito was a little bitch by ducking Chuck. And it also puts a huge question mark on his title reign.


----------



## atm1982 (Feb 26, 2008)

El Bresko said:


> There is no original 4 divisions.
> 
> First it was openweight, then at UFC 12 they changed the tournement format to make a HW and a LW tournament, at UFC 28 we had a LW, MW, HW and Super Heavyweight division, by UFC 31 it had changed to LW, WW, MW, LHW and HW. Then in early 2011 BW and FW were added as the UFC absorbed the WEC and Flyweight was begun at the Mighty Mouse V Uncle Creepy 1 Card.


My mistake! I should have worded myself clearer. :thumbsup:


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Didnt read the whole thread. Far too much whining.

I get that many of you don't like the legitimacy of this matchup. I also get that the majority of you are dislikers of the Chael.

I'm a Chael disliker, also. But I love this fight. And anybody who doesn't dig a bit of Chael should love this fight as well. Why? Because hes gonna get beat down good. It will be joyous. Then he'll have nowhere left to go.

This whole legitimacy argument is total nonsense. When you have a fighting sport, where the champion has cleared all all the top contenders in 18 months, that's not yet a "legitimate" sport. It's an infant sport. It's growing but still very immature compared to other big sports. Thats why they have to pull stunts like this to keep viewers interested. The divisions simply don't have the depth to throw blockbuster title fights every month. So its either dudes like Gus or Sonnen. One is "legit" and the other isnt. One will also garner far more interest then the other and we all know which. When a sport is this young, its disastrous if you start losing viewers due to disinterest.


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Ari said:


> Jones should have accepted the fight at UFC 151. Regardless of the circumstances, he's a champion headlining a card.
> 
> But I agree. I'd be willing to bet a guy like Glover would have jumped at the chance. Hell, even Bonnar has a 3-0 streak going before he fought Silva, I'm sure he would have jumped at the oppotunity too.
> 
> Dana clearly just wants high PPV buyrates at this point. It's sad because I thought the UFC would never stoop to that point.


Oh yeah forgot about Bonnar too, good one ... 3 fight win streak and long time UFC vet. Totally legit replacement, but somehow never offered, and a Sonnen or nothing ultimatum was given instead. 

If Bonnar agreed to Anderson on short notice without even a title on the line to show for it, it's practically a given he would step up for a real title shot in his own division. 

I definitely think Jones would have accepted that one too, the biggest part of his refusal was refusing to reward Chael with an unearned title shot just for talking trash about him, and Chael possibly being in on Dan's injury and gameplanning/training for Jones ahead of time. 

Neither factor would have been there with a legitimate replacement like Bonnar.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> Oh yeah forgot about Bonnar too ... 3 fight win streak and long time UFC vet. Totally legit replacement, but somehow never offered, and a Sonnen or nothing ultimatum was given instead.
> 
> If he agreed to Anderson on short notice without even a title on the line to show for it, it's practically a given he would step up for a real title shot in his own division.
> 
> I definitely think Jones would have accepted that one too, the biggest part of his refusal was refusing to reward Chael for talking trash about him, and Chael possibly being in on Dan's injury and gameplanning/training for Jones ahead of time. Neither factor would have been there with a legitimate replacement like Bonnar.


Wrong.

Jones already admitted that he would have turned down anyone except maybe Rashad.

Unless ofcourse Jones was lying??? Which at this point is very plausible. That guy lies as much as Dana LOL.


And i cant even believe you are bringing up the Chael/Dan conspiracy theory. Jesus.... lol. What a silly made up *factor*


----------



## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Ugh..


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Guy Incognito said:


> Ugh..


Lol...

I dont know why but your post made me laugh.

It made me think "Ugh is right. I wish people would stop talking about the disgusting nonsense that Jones pulled at UFC 151. But sadly with this TUF news being announced i know for sure its going to revive one of the worst wayyyy overdone discussions on MMAForum."

In 1 word

*Ugh..*



I think this is it for me. Im off to get some ZzZzZzZzZs


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> Wrong.
> 
> Jones already admitted that he would have turned down anyone except maybe Rashad.
> 
> ...


I'm not aware of this interview, do you have a source?

For the conspiracy theory, one of Jones' head coaches mentioned that as a reason. Whether or not you or I believe it's true is not the point, the point is it was a factor for Jones' head coach and so probably for Jones.


----------



## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

What a goddam disgrace. 

How many clown show main events is the UFC going to do before they start losing fans?

Another main event I won't bother watching. Silva-Bonnar was a joke I didn't bother watching, and here's another one.

**** you Dana, if I want WWE, I'll watch WWE.


----------



## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

It's a stupid fight. Chael clearly doesn't deserve it. But do I give a ****? Do I hell. This is the series to make TUF relevant again. They tried to do it with Liddell and Ortiz, but that failed 'cause Tito got injured; They tried it with GSP and Koscheck, but that failed 'cause Koscheck's not funny, he's just a dick; and they tried it with Lesnar and JDS, but again, that failed 'cause all Lesnar did was talk about chicken the whole show. This will not fail. Chael will be himself, he'll be funny as ****, talk funny shit, try and get in Jon's head and most importantly for the UFC make people actually tune in, which they're not for this Carwin vs Nelson series.

We're also likely to finally see the real Jon Jones. There have been so many people talking about what Jones is probably like, or suspecting he has certain character traits, but his actual personality will really be exposed here. 12 weeks of listening to Chael talk shit will get to him, and we'll see what Jon is really like. It might improve peoples opinions of him, it might not. We'll see.

As for the fight. Jon's going to win. He could be threatened by Chael's takedowns, but I doubt it. Jon is even more explosive, has excellent TDD, and even if Chael gets Jon to the ground, what's he going to do from there? Jones is going to be drilling his Jiu Jitsu, and with those long limbs he's going to be a real threat to Chael. Jones will win, and he will get a finish. I'd love it if Chael pulled it off though, along with Dan Hardy, he's the guy I want to see get a UFC belt, and not a fake one.


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Finnsidious said:


> What a goddam disgrace.
> 
> How many clown show main events is the UFC going to do before they start losing fans?
> 
> ...


You really believe that matching up Bones with Sonnen is going to lose the UFC fans? Sure, some might get knicker twisted and not watch... but many more will be intrigued.

And stop with the WWE comparisons. They are ridiculous. Last time I looked, the WWE is theatrical entertainment. The winner of any WWE match is pre-determined. How are they even remotely comparable?


----------



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> Oh yeah forgot about Bonnar too, good one ... 3 fight win streak and long time UFC vet. Totally legit replacement, but somehow never offered, and a Sonnen or nothing ultimatum was given instead.
> 
> If Bonnar agreed to Anderson on short notice without even a title on the line to show for it, it's practically a given he would step up for a real title shot in his own division.
> 
> ...


Bonnar had not been in camp a long time the odds of him making the 205 limit were slim to impossible on a weeks notice. In order to have a title fight at 205 the UFC basically had to look at guys coming from a quick turn around, guys with fights booked immediately around the time of the event or a MW.


----------



## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> You really believe that matching up Bones with Sonnen is going to lose the UFC fans? Sure, some might get knicker twisted and not watch... but many more will be intrigued.
> 
> And stop with the WWE comparisons. They are ridiculous. Last time I looked, the WWE is theatrical entertainment. The winner of any WWE match is pre-determined. How are they even remotely comparable?


 You missed my point completely if you think I'm saying they are losing fans. In fact I'm saying pretty much the opposite, that _is _my point. 

I know it won't lose them fans, or at least, it won't lose them as many as it will get them. My point is the UFC make it more clear with every new card they announce that they don't care about making the best fighters fight anymore. Why am I supposed to care who holds belts if the belt holders are fighting guys who are so clearly not the best challenger? How is that supposed to generate long term interest? 

I don't have any illusions about Dana reading my post and going 'OMG, we might lose a hardcore fan, STOP THE PRESSES'. I'm sure a Sonnen-Jones PPV will sell just fine. 

My point is, I'm a fan too, and the only way I can influence the UFC is to buy PPV's I like and not buy the ones I don't. I think this kind of fight is short term gain for long term pain. Some fans will watch it for entertainment value, but a lot of fans also just see it for what it is in competitive terms, a joke. 

I'm not some elitist who thinks fans who like a Sonnen-Jones fight aren't 'real' fans, but I'm a real fan too, and my point is I don't like it one bit, and there are plenty of others who don't either. I strongly suggest those fans don't buy this ppv, like I won't. For the fans who do like it, they are entitled to put their opinion and their money where they like, as I am.

And the WWE comparison is perfectly valid. The WWE is concerned solely with profit, it has nothing to do with sports or competition. A Sonnen-Jones fight sends the message unequivocally that the UFC is moving closer to that model. Obviously they still have a long way to go, the UFC still cares enough about the sport that most fights are legit, but don't try and tell me with a straight face that Sonnen is the best LHW challenger out there. That is a $$$ decision, not a sports decision, and that's what the WWE does.


----------



## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> He's facing those two MWs because of whiny fans that complained about him being afraid of MWs. Also because he's cleaned out the division.
> 
> Geez this guy can't do anything right.
> 
> ...


haha You complain about whining but that's all you ever do. Just the thought of Chael Sonnen makes you foam at the mouth. 

You're an idiot if you think the two situations are the same. No point in even arguing with you.


----------



## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

Dana White can go on and on and say stuff like "If you dont like this, dont watch it, I dont want your money." Apparently it just shows he is full of crock because he makes Jones/Sonnen in an attempt to regain the money he lost from telling people off. People also know he is full of crock when last month he said that Sonnen will not talk his way to a Title Shot and has to beat people first. He needs money, our money, thats why he thinks this will help him do that. Declining PPVs and TV ratings are proving that they are not losing just 1 or some people over their actions recently. They are losing many more than that, and im sure they are going to lose more over this Fight.

The reason why Silva/Sonnen 2 did so well was not because Sonnen talked alot of shit, it was because of the first fight. People want to see the Champion and a legitimate Contender fight for a Title, where both sides have a good chance to win and has the makings of a great fight on paper. On Paper, this is about as one sided of a fight as you can get, a dominating Champion who is going to fight an undeserving smaller Challenger. Bones is a more worse matchup for Sonnen than Silva. Bones is bigger, stronger, and can stop a double leg, going to be a short night for Sonnen. Fans dont want to know the outcome of a Fight before it happens, their is no intrigue to this fight. And the UFC actually planned this out!? Silva/Bonnar had circumstances to it, but Bones/Sonnen does not. Guys can say blah blah you guys are whiners, but if you dont think the UFC is going to be ridiculed left and right instead of praised by anyone and everyone until April, you are in denial.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> I'm not aware of this interview, do you have a source?
> 
> For the conspiracy theory, one of Jones' head coaches mentioned that as a reason. Whether or not you or I believe it's true is not the point, the point is it was a factor for Jones' head coach and so probably for Jones.


Yes Sir



> "The only person I would have fought would have been Rashad Evans because he is very similar to Dan Henderson… Rashad Evans, stylistically, would be the only match similar enough to what we had trained for," Jones said.


http://www.espn.co.uk/ufc/sport/story/168526.html


Its funny how he does not want to fight Chael because he didnt earn it. But then he is honored to fight Vitor.

Lol

Gotta love Jones and his nonsense.

And btw what the guy up there says is true. You do whine ALOT. No offense intended. I dont think i ever see you ignoring a chance to whine about Chael Sonnen or what people think of Jones and the UFC 151 fiasco.


----------



## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Finnsidious said:


> What a goddam disgrace.
> 
> How many clown show main events is the UFC going to do before they start losing fans?
> 
> ...


Bang on I agree, the UFC has become a disgrace putting on these circus show acts instead of the top quality fights we are supposed to be getting all the time. They only care about putting on more sub par fights because it equals more money short term while the overall quality has gone to ******* hell.


----------



## kickstar (Nov 12, 2009)




----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

kickstar said:


>


That one didnt work for me

But i found a link that does.

http://www.bjpenn.com/listen-to-tod...ence-call-live-on-bjpenn-com-4pm-et-ufc-news/

Chael is currently speaking.


Jones just came out with a Zinger.

"I respect some of the stuff he does. He is able to go out and get what he wants. Except a championship or any kind of title at all" 

lololol


And Dana said the reason this came about is because they found out that Jones cant fight until April. So this made sense while Jones is healing up.

Which actually makes alot of sense tbh now that i am aware of Jones injury. Though im sure many of you whiners are going to whine. Since thats what school girls do.


----------



## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> Yes Sir
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, there's no difference between Chael's accomplishments at LHW and Vitor's. No sir, none whatsoever, nope.


----------



## kickstar (Nov 12, 2009)

It's working for me... 

Yes, it's very interesting Media Call:thumbsup: Can't wait for tuf 17... it's gonna be awesome...


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Sports_Nerd said:


> Yes, there's no difference between Chael's accomplishments at LHW and Vitor's. No sir, none whatsoever, nope.


When you go in to detail his accomplishments at LHW really arnt that impressive. He won the god damn belt on a freak cut. And lost it the next fight to the same opponent. 

And his okay LHW accomplishments are freaking 7 years ago. Sorry i dont put much stock in to that.

So no there is NONE.

Neither guy has had any recent accomplishments at LHW.

Nope.. not at all. No Sir. None whatsoever. (Did i mimic your douchyness well enough???)


----------



## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

How to earn a title shot in the UFC.

1. Run your mouth 24/7
2. Must be coming off a loss.
3. Must not have one fight in your respective division.
4. Must raise the rating of a show that really hasn't been relevant since 2006. (at least for me anyways)
5. Moisturize your lips before you kiss Dana White's behind.

All the MMA fighters got that? Good.

Don't get me wrong it is an interesting fight and would love to see it. But it shouldn't be a title fight. It wasn't earned. I love watching MMA (especially the UFC) but its things like this that makes me lose respect for the sport (mainly the UFC).


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Any of you bums who ate up Sonnen's mouth and thought he was so "funny" shouldn't be complaining right now.


----------



## fightfan76 (Sep 29, 2011)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> I can't imagine how the UFC can justify this if this is indeed true.
> 
> They're completely destroying their credibility as a legit sport by giving Edgar and Sonnen title fights without fighting in the division first.


I can see it when moving down, but not up in weight, just my opinion, no need for debate.....


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Out of these fighters (Hendo, Sonnen, Machida, Shogun, Gustaf, Phil Davis) rank who would give Bones the best fight or has the best chance at pulling it off right now...in order. 

1. Machida
2. Hendo
3. Gustaf
4. Sonnen
5. Shogun
6. Phil Davis

Not sure why I put Sonnen over Shogun. Shogun at least has a chance at pulling out something crazy. But the way he fights isn't a good style vs. Jones. If Sonnen can take Jones down (doubtful) he may be able to win some rounds.


----------



## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

fightfan76 said:


> I can see it when moving down, but not up in weight, just my opinion, no need for
> debate.....


That's the whole point of a forum though, to debate.

I don't buy into the whole moving down thing because it works both ways in this situation, one could make the argument Chael, a gigantic Middleweight will be moving up to fight bigger guys which he will and you could make the argument Frankie a fast Lightweight will be moving down to fight faster guys which he will.

I think and for me, I somewhat feel this way, Edgar was robbed in his last fight so it isn't that big of a deal but I would still like him to fight a contender, just to see how he adjusts to the new weight.



jonnyg4508 said:


> Out of these fighters (Hendo, Sonnen, Machida, Shogun, Gustaf, Phil Davis) rank who would give Bones the best fight or has the best chance at pulling it off right now...in order.
> 
> 1. Machida
> 2. Hendo
> ...


I would probably put Chael on the bottom of that list, sadly, Davis has better subs and atleast could threaten with catching Jones in something and Shogun has more power.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Out of these fighters (Hendo, Sonnen, Machida, Shogun, Gustaf, Phil Davis) rank who would give Bones the best fight or has the best chance at pulling it off right now...in order.
> 
> 1. Machida
> 2. Hendo
> ...


1. Machida (If refocused)
2. Sonnen
3. Hendo
4. Gustaf
5. Davis
6. Shogun

Evans ranks above Davis though.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> I would probably put Chael on the bottom of that list, sadly, Davis has better subs and atleast could threaten with catching Jones in something and Shogun has more power.


I guess I'm just not as high on Phil as others. 

I feel his BJJ is vastly overrated. He sub'd Gustaf when he was 22 and basically just a kickboxer. And he more or less "caught" him at the end out the round. He didn't put on some clinic. He tied Botsch's are behind his back and evryone went crazy. When it was nothing technical, it was just controlling a smaller less talented fighter. He sub'd Prado who is a blue belt and 25 years old. He has a decent anaconda choke but that is it. 

I feel Sonnen is a better wrestler as well. Who is more relentless with better cardio.

Phil offers close to nothing in my opinion. Maybe in a couple of years.


----------



## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Any of you bums who ate up Sonnen's mouth and thought he was so "funny" shouldn't be complaining right now.


It was funny at the time. Personally, I found his Off the Record interview with Michael Landsberg hilarious.

It was entertaining, because he was taking non-stop shots at the #1 fighter in the world, after he held him down for 23 minutes and then got subbed.

It eventually got him a rematch after he gave Silva his toughest match in the UFC.

This is a disgrace, no matter how funny Chael will be during the show. However, his act has also become worn, and tired. 
Chael hasn't been relevant since his first fight against Silva (over 2 years ago), beating Stann and Bisping was "OK", but nothing to write home about. Then Silva put him in his place in the rematch.

Now he somehow gets a title shot against JBJ. Makes perfect sense.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Bonnar426 said:


> How to earn a title shot in the UFC.
> 
> 1. Run your mouth 24/7
> 2. Must be coming off a loss.
> ...


How to get a title shot in the UFC 

1. When your boss calls you to step up on short notice to fight for the title. You say **** Yes!! 

The end.

Dana white said he called all the top contenders to fight Jones at 151 and they all turned it down except Chael sonnen. So now Chael is being rewarded for stepping up. There is nothing wrong with that. The people who turned the title shot down can't bitch. 

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using VerticalSports.Com App


----------



## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> How to get a title shot in the UFC
> 
> 1. When your boss calls you to step up on short notice to fight for the title. You say **** Yes!!
> 
> ...


That's just it, they declined to fight him in September, not April.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Well that's just it

Dana white needed people to step up for September not April. Chael sonnen did so now he is getting his reward. 

End of story.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using VerticalSports.Com App


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> How to get a title shot in the UFC
> 
> 1. When your boss calls you to step up on short notice to fight for the title. You say **** Yes!!
> 
> ...


Don't kid yourself! The Ultimate Fighter was the main reason why Chael got a title shot. The show needed ratings and Chael has the charisma to make it look good. Its a business move pure and simple.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Yeah TUF has a lot to do with it. Say what you like but we're all going to watch the shit out of Sonnen and Jones TUF. Just a shame it didnt come when Sonnen was a legit contender.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

True. I'm not kidding myself. But had Chael sonnen turned down the fight at UFC 151 chances are he wouldn't be coaching opposite of Jones now either.

It all works together.

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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I'm just pissed I dont get to see Griffin and Sonnen. I felt it would be a big win for Forrest and a great fight to push towards the end of his career.

The worst thing about Sonnen is that we're all pretty agreed that he wouldnt have earned the title shot himself. Hendo, Machida, Evans etc. would all have been too much for him in the general consensus. Maybe if it was someone like Glover who was fast tracked where people think he will pose some sort of challenge, it might have been a different story.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

RedRocket44 said:


> It was funny at the time. Personally, I found his Off the Record interview with Michael Landsberg hilarious.
> 
> It was entertaining, because he was taking non-stop shots at the #1 fighter in the world, after he held him down for 23 minutes and then got subbed.
> 
> ...


The UFC is in the business of making money.

Yourself and others ate up Sonnen's talking and made the UFC tons of money. 

Don't be confused that the UFC wants to use you same people to make money off Sonnen again.

Don't hate on the UFC for making decisions that fans eat up and love. If people didn't follow Chael's mouth he wouldn't of got this shot. 

Simple as that.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

Killz said:


> This is gonna be awesome!


...Oh Yeah! Chael will provide much of the verbal entertainment and zingers. Jon will be chilled at first until Sonnen starts in. He's so annoying it's unavoidable! It's gonna get heated. Sonnen will be pretty strong at 205. I really wonder if he _can_ take Jones down. The distance, reach and skill factor of Jones is being sharpened with every fight. If Sonnen manages to take Jon down, Bones will reverse it getting top position and then Chael will be done. JBJ's ground n' pound has proven unstoppable so far. The TUF series will build up a lotta hype!...


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## Jumanji (Mar 30, 2011)

They better move it to another day cuz I actually want to watch this one. Whose ever idea it was to put the show on a Friday should be shot.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Jumanji said:


> They better move it to another day cuz I actually want to watch this one. Whose ever idea it was to put the show on a Friday should be shot.


They're moving it to a new day, they didn't say which day but they confirmed it'd be a week day.

The FX executive on the call also said Spike better 'watch their ass'. Which they should probably do since FX has shit like Always Sunny, SOA, AHS, and all that other shit they show since they took Nip/Tuck off..... >.>


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

You lot should be so lucky to be privy to Sonnen vs. Jones. Since Anderson and Jon-boy are such nancy boys, this is as close to a super fight as we will ever come. Chael Sonnen, the man who destroyed Anderson Silva for five whole rounds, versus the most dominant LHW champion in history. 

Records will be broken. Legacies will be put on the line. And a champion will fall.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> They're moving it to a new day, they didn't say which day but they confirmed it'd be a week day.
> 
> The FX executive on the call also said Spike better 'watch their ass'. Which they should probably do since FX has shit like Always Sunny, SOA, AHS, and all that other shit they show since they took Nip/Tuck off..... >.>


They also have Justified which is really awesome!!

But yeah i really do love nip/tuck. I own season 2 on dvd. And iv seen every episode. Such a great show.... Pouring myself some Vodka or Whiskey on ice + Nip/Tuck is when my life ment something.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> The FX executive on the call also said Spike better 'watch their ass'. Which they should probably do since FX has shit like Always Sunny, SOA, AHS, and all that other shit they show since they took Nip/Tuck off..... >.>


It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, Sons of Anarchy and The League are ******* great shows. Haven't seen Nip/Tuck though.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

This is going to so funny man. The TUF show ratings are going skyrocket just to see the mouth of Oregon. 

The LHW title holder should have taken care of business at UFC 151 when he had the chance. Now he's going to have to endure months of this. 

Don't know how he did it, but Chael "earned" himself a title shot by persuading the masses. Lets face it without that publicity generated there's no way the UFC would allow it.

Strange days...


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

hellholming said:


> It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, Sons of Anarchy and The League are ******* great shows. Haven't seen Nip/Tuck though.


You really should check out Nip/Tuck. And im not talking about going online and watching it while sitting on a computer chair. Im talking about going out and getting the season 1 dvd and buying some nice expensive alcohol you like to go with it. Then sit down and enjoy. 

You will have a ******* bad ass experience. 




No_Mercy said:


> This is going to so funny man. The TUF show ratings are going skyrocket just to see the mouth of Oregon.
> 
> The LHW title holder should have taken care of business at UFC 151 when he had the chance. Now he's going to have to endure months of this.
> 
> ...


Yeah when Chael accepted the fight and Jones declined it that was one of the most talked about news in maybe the last 2 years. It was way overboard tbh because you couldnt even avoid it and in the grand scheme of things it shouldnt have been such a big deal. You either thought Jones was a little bitch or you thought it wasnt his fault and Chael/Dan/Dana had a huge conspiracy theory against Jones. But it somehow became much bigger and MMA News websites were reporting ANYTHING that had any slight relevance to it. Even my work place that's filled with part-time UFC fans and guys who have seen maybe 2-3 PPVs were talking about it.

Hell there is guys that even brought it back up when it was found out that Mitrione turned down a fight. In an attempt to compare the two situations and try to make people seem bias against Jones (Mainly Liddelanenko).


It really would have been shocking for me if the UFC didnt attempt to milk that situation. I thought they were going to do it by giving Chael a title shot after he beat Forrest. But i think they have found a even better way because now there he does not have to go through anyone to get the title shot, it will improve ratings for their TV-Show, this would have been a huge PPV and now TUF will make it even bigger.

+

I also heard that they are getting a new day slot???? That alone will improve the ratings drastically. Since the people who watch TUF are also the people who are getting drunk Friday Nights. I always felt Sunday would be a good time slot for TUF. Anyone know if its true that they are getting a new slot???? (I think this information was given to me by one of those part-time UFC fans. So i take it with a grain of salt.)


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## SexyHobo (Jan 7, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> I also heard that they are getting a new day slot????


Yeah, they mentioned it in the Conference Call. Can't remember if they said Tuesday or if they werent specific.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

> "For the most part, I commend the UFC for making the fights happen that the people love to see. But as a fighter, I was like, 'man, what's it gonna take for me to get a chance to get back up in there?' *I wanted to fight Anderson, but it didn't end up happening because they said I needed one more fight to be a contender at middleweight. But I guess it's not the same for everybody."*


I am not the biggest Evans fan, but the guy is right.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

So the fighters who are now complaining are Henderson, who partly caused all of this, Machida, who refused to fight Jones twice and Rashad, who wouldn't take a fight except for a title fight to protect his brand. Why do I not feel any sympathy for them whatsoever?


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Jones is out until April, just book the Rua vs Gustaf winner for his next defense it fits perfectly.

Sonnen better be in top entertaining form for this show because no one wants to watch Jones squinting and pouting intelligently for weeks, this may not be the ratings killer Dana thinks it will be.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Nip/Tuck is a girls show, so you're not missing much in not watching it.

The League is the shit. Only watched because of Mr. "Old People Burning, Old People Burning, Put Your Hands Up!", but all the characters are brilliant, and I HATE handegg.


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## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

No_Mercy said:


> Don't know how he did it, but Chael "earned" himself a title shot by persuading the masses. Lets face it without that publicity generated there's no way the UFC would allow it.
> 
> Strange days...


Its hard to see that Sonnen convinced the masses as their has been a heavy bombardment of criticism from the masses. I dont think he really convinced most of the people for this fight to happen. I think the UFC misunderstood the intentions of fans who wanted Jones to save UFC 151 by taking a fight with Sonnen or anybody. I wouldnt doubt that after Jones and White had that "little talk" he probably told Jones to accept a fight with Sonnen or else and threatened him. Because after that, Jones changed his tune when before he was willing to sacrifice an Event for his belief that Sonnen is not worthy. And then use the excuse that fans wanted this fight to help boost a struggling TUF. I dont think Dana White listened to anybody, he just thought of an idea, and pushed and shoved to get it done at all costs, repercussions be damned.

And as someone said, this might not be the ratings killer that Dana was hoping if so much people are against it. In fact, it might backfire big time, and lose more fans instead of gain. Having Sonnen be on TUF might save it for now.. but after that, then what? It goes back to the crapper, they accomplished nothing. They dont even know why its struggling in the first place. They dont realize that having Sonnen troll for 4 months isint going to save it a year or 2 from now. TUF started struggling when it shifted emphasis too much on what the Coaches were doing, coaches that come and go. They might come for Sonnen, but they wont come for Cerrone next. TUF is now fundamentally flawed. TUF used to be about the fighters and make stars out of them, now its to show the Coaches on camera who are already stars. But not everyone is a fan of every coach.

This move will hurt the UFCs reputation in the long run after the short term gags and giggles wears off on TUF.


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## BOMDC (Feb 13, 2011)

Didn't read the whole thread, but does anyone else wish they used Hendo for TUF with Chael on as a Coach/Assistant? Would have been just as much gold without this pointless fight nobody wants to see. The buildup will be fun, but probably tamer since Chael really has little chance here.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Sticky this thread. I want to look back and laugh at so many of you when the TUF ratings spike, the PPV sells huge numbers, and the UFC's reputation remains as strong as ever.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Sticky this thread. I want to look back and laugh at so many of you when the TUF ratings spike, the PPV sells huge numbers, and the UFC's reputation remains as strong as ever.


I don't think anyone's doubting that the ratings and PPV buys will be big, but the LHW division looks real bad atm.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

See the last two pages for doubts as to the ratings and PPV numbers. 

This will come. And it will go. And the UFC will survive. Drama queens, the lot of you.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

No one cares about TUF and Sonnen is just another circus act for the kiddies to drool over and spend their parents money on. The only fans that care about either of the two are in it for the wrong reasons. The UFC can make more money by putting on quality fights like they should be doing instead of focusing on shit that's irrelevant.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

BOOM said:


> No one cares about TUF and Sonnen is just another circus act for the kiddies to drool over and spend their parents money on. The only fans that care about either of the two are in it for the wrong reasons. The UFC can make more money by putting on quality fights like they should be doing instead of focusing on shit that's irrelevant.


I hate to say it, but there is a lot of money to be made out of shit that's irrelevant. See: Television, Reality.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> I don't think anyone's doubting that the ratings and PPV buys will be big, but the LHW division looks real bad atm.


I doubt the ratings will be anything to write home about, and the PPV buys will be par for the course for Jones, around the 450k mark.

Sonnen isn't enough to convince people who've given up on TUF to tune in every week, and Jones certainly isn't going to make a difference unless he finds a stash of charisma somewhere unexpected.

There might be a spike for the first couple of episodes, after that no one will care.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Sports_Nerd said:


> I hate to say it, but there is a lot of money to be made out of shit that's irrelevant. See: Television, Reality.


"America's Got Talent" and WWE smack talk or antics does'nt belong anywhere near MMA, it's a disgrace to the sport and disrespectful to the fighters who do have class.

The UFC has always had the best reality show they ever needed to focus on and make a ton of money with, it's called the actual fights that got them here in the first place.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Sports_Nerd said:


> I doubt the ratings will be anything to write home about, and the PPV buys will be par for the course for Jones, around the 450k mark.
> 
> Sonnen isn't enough to convince people who've given up on TUF to tune in every week, and Jones certainly isn't going to make a difference unless he finds a stash of charisma somewhere unexpected.
> 
> There might be a spike for the first couple of episodes, after that no one will care.


With the show moving to a weekday I expect them to get back to the numbers they were drawing on Spike and if Chael can get under Bones' skin and the fights produce this will be a successful season.

The UFC can also make some good money off a 450k buyrate.


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## MMA specialist (Nov 8, 2010)

If only, this might actually entice me into watching TUF again.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

It's simply unfortunate that a fighter has come along so much better then the rest of his division. Each division in the UFC has 5 or 6 big names at most. It's not a lot. If they all get wiped out by a single dude within two years that leaves any division looking bad.

I wrote a post quite a while back saying Danas hype machine is going to bite him on the arse. He's always going on about stacked divisions. There's nothing even remotely "stacked" about the UFC. It's a baby sport. In a stacked division, the champion should always have a viable challenger. The top 20 fighters in any boxing division are all extremely good fighters. ( maybe not HW ) If the UFC gets to that stage, then we can call it "stacked".

There's nothing wrong here. People is over reacting. I dont want Jon to fight Gus or Davis yet. They both need more fights. Realistically, what options are left? Bones vs Sonnen will be a popular fight. End of.

In a nutshell. Its Danas fault. He over hypes. We all fall for it. Then we complain when the quality of the product doesn't match the hype. Here's an idea. Don't believe the hype. The UFC was never that legit to begin with. Fights like this will always happen till the divisions become deeper.


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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

Wow, lets just screw Forest over once again heh... (and the rest of the light heavyweight top contender list for that matter)

In that case, he and Stephan Bonnar should both fight a retirement fight anyways.

I absolutely don't agree with the decision to jump Sonnan over the entire Light Heavyweight division to get a title shot, but I can't say that this won't be an entertaining TUF season, and the sooner this fight happens, the sooner annoying fans can shut up about JBJ being afraid of Chael Sonnan.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> It's confirmed.
> 
> http://mmajunkie.com/news/31166/jon...the-ultimate-fighter-17-fight-on-april-27.mma
> 
> I'll watch but I really can't get behind Chael getting a title shot coming off a loss to Anderson.


I'm not liking this fight. Dana has made a bad decision, and he doesn't make many. Sonnen has not proven himself at all at 205, and I'm sold he's the #2 MW in the world. Very confusing. Bad call. Not good for the sport. 

And the TUFF show makes it even worse.

Anderson is destroying his opponents at 205, and yet Sonnen gets the nod? Frustrating. Dana should just tell Anderson to get his ass in their with Jones. I'd bet on Anderson in that fight.

Terrible choice. The Forest Sonnen matchup was a very good fight. Someone explain this to me.


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