# Meathead Suspended for Code of Conduct Breach



## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/4/8/4202690/matt-mitrione-suspended-fallon-fox-transphobia




> Earlier today we reported on Matt Mitrione appearing on The MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani. During the appearance on the show, Mitrione unleashed a torrent of comments that can only be described as transphobic, calling transgender fighter Fallon Fox a "disgusting freak" among other things.
> 
> The UFC provided the following statement to Bloody Elbow after we asked for comment on the situation:
> 
> ...


Should have thought before he spoke. Regardless of your opinions on this situation, tact should be used when addressing things like this if you are in the public eye.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Is this legit? Being investigated? Lmao, they'd have you believe he shot someone.

Blackzilians lol


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## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

Posted this inside the other thread.

Matt did not choose the best way to go about making his point, but the overall point that he makes is indeed a salient one. I'm certainly not going to stop supporting him, but he let his mouth get carried away with him and used some poorly chosen and unnecessary terminology. Symptomatic of his character, he is an excitable kind of guy, very warm and friendly, but speaks in what seems like a conscious stream of thought and often says things that I'm sure he himself probably realizes seconds after that he should not have, and maybe even did not really mean. The end result is that he has said what many others are probably thinking to a degree, but would never verbalise. 

Damn shame that he has caused this to happen right after getting on track with a win and being hungry to fight regularly over the next coming year.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

This has to be a joke. He didn't say or do anything wrong. Fallon Fox is, whether they want to admit it or not, a dude who mutilated himself. Sorry but that isn't normal. HE has no right to fight women. He should be fighting opponents of his own gender.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

This is a good move on the part of the UFC, they are proving that their code of conduct is a legitimate thing. Mitrione was way out of line here and something needed to be done.

AlphaDawg, Fallon Fox is not a man who mutilated himself, and your comments are insensitive. 
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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Cowgirl said:


> This is a good move on the part of the UFC, they are proving that their code of conduct is a legitimate thing. Mitrione was way out of line here and something needed to be done.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


The hell it is.

People need to stop being so *****fied.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

AlphaDawg said:


> This has to be a joke. He didn't say or do anything wrong. Fallon Fox is, whether they want to admit it or not, a dude who mutilated himself. Sorry but that isn't normal. HE has no right to fight women. He should be fighting opponents of his own gender.


Gender is very subjective, that's poor word choice. But I suppose you couldn't say her own sex since that is female as well 

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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Cowgirl said:


> Gender is very subjective, that's poor word choice. But I suppose you couldn't say her own sex since that is female as well
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


Good point. Sex is the word I should of used. 

That being said, HE isn't a female. HE is a male. And HE should fight opponents of his own sex.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

In my opinion, people are overly sensitive today. It borders on the ridiculous at times. Dana didn't get suspended for going on a tirade and calling a journalist a 'f a g'. 

Matt could have used tact, and I don't support calling a transgender person a 'freak', but charge him a small fine and move on. Everyone is such a damn drama queen today.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

AlphaDawg said:


> Good point. Sex is the word I should of used.
> 
> That being said, HE isn't a female. HE is a male.


Sex refers to the sexual organs a person has. In this regard, Fallon is a she. Gender refers to what a person feels like they are. In this regard, Fallon is a she.

Had they not suspended Mitrione, they would just be telling the next person that it's okay to do this kind of thing. Fallon did nothing to Meathead, however he all out attacked her. Do people not have a universal right to exist without being unjustly ridiculed? 

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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Fallon doesn't have a vagina, nor ovaries, etc. I'm sorry, but that's 100% fact. 

Having one's penis removed isn't the same as installing a vagina.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Fallon doesn't have a vagina, nor ovaries, etc. I'm sorry, but that's 100% fact.
> 
> Having one's penis removed isn't the same as installing a vagina.


Part of SRS can include building a vagina, please educate yourself. By your own definition here you are saying that in order to be female, one has to have the plumbing, that's a foolish statement.

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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

His words were way out of line, sorry. It wasn't the first part really...



> she's not a he. He's a he," he said. "He's chromosomally a man. He had a gender change, not a sex change. He's still a man. He was a man for 31 years. Thirty-one years. That's a couple years younger than I am. He's a man. Six years of taking performance de-hancing drugs, you think is going to change all that? That's ridiculous.


Lots of people have said things like this, and its a defensible position. It was the rest:



> "That is a lying, sick, sociopathic, disgusting freak," he continued. "And I mean that. Because you lied on your license to beat up women. That's disgusting. You should be embarrassed yourself. And the fact that Florida licensed him because California licensed him or whoever the hell did it, it's an embarrassment to us as fighters, as a sport, and we all should protest that. The woman that's fighting him, props to you. I hope you beat his ass, and I hope he gets blackballed and never fights again, because that's disgusting and I'm appalled by that."


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Cowgirl said:


> Part of SRS can include building a vagina, please educate yourself. By your own definition here you are saying that in order to be female, one has to have the plumbing, that's a foolish statement.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


You said sex refers to organs, and suggested that Fallon is female. How do you know he's undergone this groundbreaking vaginal construction process? For all we know it's a disaster area down there. You're suggesting that the mere act of having one's penis removed makes him a woman. And I'm sure it's not quite that simple. 

This is a sensitive issue for you. I get that. But you can't just go around telling everyone to educate themselves just because they disagree with you. Yes, a big part of being female is having a vagina, ovaries, and as you put it, the 'plumbing'. This doesn't mean that women with defective reproductive organs aren't female, because they still have them (regardless of whether they function). Fox - by design - does not... if you're going to say that organs define sex, then you have to acknowledge the natural, female organs that Fox is missing and was not born with. This isn't as neat and tidy a situation as you make it seem.

Surgery and pills only do so much.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Curious to the situation.

Can Fallon give birth? Or can she even produce an ova?


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Cowgirl said:


> Sex refers to the sexual organs a person has. In this regard, Fallon is a she. Gender refers to what a person feels like they are. In this regard, Fallon is a she.
> 
> Had they not suspended Mitrione, they would just be telling the next person that it's okay to do this kind of thing. Fallon did nothing to Meathead, however he all out attacked her. Do people not have a universal right to exist without being unjustly ridiculed?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


He's not a she just because he got his dick cut off and got a makeshift vagina. It doesn't work like that. It's a fake and doesn't work like a vagina should, nor does his body work like a woman's should.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Curious to the situation.
> 
> Can Fallon give birth? Or can she even produce an ova?


neither.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

UFC should just fine Meathead and donate the fine to the LGBT community foundation or whatever it may be called.

It may have been wrong to call her/him a freak but I agree with what he said.

Fallon Fox should be locked up for being a liar. This isn't a game of monopoly fighters are playing. Its real and it can have long term implications on your health. Fallon Fox knew exactly what he was doing when he lied on his registration.

If I had a daughter old enough to compete in MMA and I found out the fighter that beat her was a man, I'd take a baseball bat to the bastard.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Spite said:


> UFC should just fine Meathead and donate the fine to the LGBT community foundation or whatever it may be called.
> 
> It may have been wrong to call her/him a freak but I agree with what he said.
> 
> ...


He shouldn't have had any action taken against him.

The LGBT community needs to get over it and grow a set. So he called you a name, stop bitching.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

HexRei said:


> neither.


I have no horse in this race.

But from any clear definition of female that I can find...Fallon cannot be considered a female.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

AlphaDawg said:


> He's not a she just because he got his dick cut off and got a makeshift vagina. It doesn't work like that. It's a fake and doesn't work like a vagina should, nor does his body work like a woman's should.


It's a matter of chemical makeup of the body. Body parts are one little part of the situation. If the chemical makeup of a person says they're female, then that's what they are.

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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Frankly, I'm not against men living as women and women living as men. I've always looked at things with a 'live and let live' mindset. This entire sex-change issue has been more about someone born a man fighting women for a living, and whether that's right or wrong. But this is a completely different matter. Meathead does deserve to be 'punished' for his words, because they were harsh and unnecessary... but again, I think a simple fine would have sufficed and appeased the whistle blowers. 

Suspending him because he used the term 'freak' when people higher up in the organization have publicly uttered far worse is a bit drastic.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Spite said:


> UFC should just fine Meathead and donate the fine to the LGBT community foundation or whatever it may be called.
> 
> It may have been wrong to call her/him a freak but I agree with what he said.
> 
> ...


Other than the little misunderstanding that California had not in fact licensed her yet, which had nothing to do with her sex or gender, how did she lie?

Also, LL it isn't the LGBT community that did this, they aren't whining. The UFC did it on their own.

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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Cowgirl said:


> Do people not have a universal right to exist without being unjustly ridiculed?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


I'm not saying the comments Meathead made were justified, but you have to look at it from other peoples perspective too. Some see it as mutilation, changing your sexual orientation from how you were born is offensive to certain people. It's no different from people clashing over religious beliefs, and even going to war over it, it's human nature to attack what you don't believe in.



Cowgirl said:


> Other than the little misunderstanding that California had not in fact licensed her yet, which had nothing to do with her sex or gender, how did she lie?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


She fought women, while the women thought she was a women. That's lying, and dangerous.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Cowgirl said:


> Other than the little misunderstanding that California had not in fact licensed her yet, which had nothing to do with her sex or gender, how did she lie?
> 
> Also, LL it isn't the LGBT community that did this, they aren't whining. The UFC did it on their own.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


I never said anything about the LGBT.

Well I have to admit, I'm only taking Meatheads word for it.



> Because you lied on your license to beat up women. That's disgusting. You should be embarrassed yourself. And the fact that Florida licensed him because California licensed him or whoever the hell did it, it's an embarrassment to us as fighters, as a sport, and we all should protest that.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Spite said:


> Well I have to admit, I'm only taking Meatheads word for it


Meathead was mistaken, from a legal standpoint she is female, so any information on any legal documents needs to reflect her legal status. No lies.

I wasn't referring to you saying something about the LGBTQ community, I was talking to LL in that part.

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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Cowgirl said:


> Meathead was mistaken, from a legal standpoint she is female, so any information on any legal documents needs to reflect her legal status. No lies.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


If thats the case then the law needs to change. I've nothing against people who want to live life they way they choose, I appreciate it takes courage to do so.

What Fox did was wrong, legal or otherwise.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I'm sick of this PC sensitive bullshit. If you need to use mutilation and drugs to change your body to feel good about yourself, that's none of my business. And it's none of my business what that by itself says about your mental health. But that doesn't give you the right to compete in a sport with obvious advantages. Being this driven to first become a woman and then fight women is a perfect example of the dictionary definition of freak.


> A very unusual and unexpected event or situation
> 
> A person, animal, or plant with an unusual physical abnormality
> 
> A person regarded as strange because of their unusual appearance or behavior


If Matt finds that type of freak disgusting, he isn't the only one.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Spite said:


> If thats the case then the law needs to change. I've nothing against people who want to live life they way they choose, I appreciate it takes courage to do so.
> 
> What Fox did was wrong, legal or otherwise.


It was right in the eyes of the law, so I'm assuming you're talking from a moral standpoint which is incredibly subjective.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Cowgirl said:


> It was right in the eyes of the law, so I'm assuming you're talking from a moral standpoint which is incredibly subjective.


Well first of all I very much doubt lawmakers had anticipated that a man who had a sex change would then try to compete against other woman. Had they, it would probably have been made illegal.

Secondly for a moral standpoint your quite right, I'm on my moral High Horse. I've 2 year old daughter, who pretty much has changed my outlook on life. Say my 2 year old was 20 years old and she competed in MMA, and she got beat up by another fighter who turned out used to be a man.

What I would do to him/her would most likely see me end up in prison.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Cowgirl said:


> Other than the little misunderstanding that California had not in fact licensed her yet, which had nothing to do with her sex or gender, how did she lie?
> 
> Also, LL it isn't the LGBT community that did this, they aren't whining. The UFC did it on their own.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


There's no reason for him to be suspended and there's no reason he should be fined and have it donated to the gays.

The man spoke his mind, now he's suspended, that's asinine, where did the country I love go? What happened to freedom of speech? Where is this mans rights? America needs more people like Matt Mitrione, don't let the system and this world of politically correctness hold you down, fight back. We gotta stand up or they'll **** us right in the ass. 

I commend Matt Mitrione on this day, God bless a real American like him for standing up for what he believes.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Political correctness *is* a form of censorship.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Political correctness *is* a form of censorship.


No. He is free to say anything he wants, and is not censored (and that's just what he did). The fact that his employer, friends, training partners, and society in general may judge him and hold him accountable for the words isn't censorship. 

It's everyone else's freedom to act as they choose vs his freedom to act as he chooses.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

I don't believe for a second this has anything to do with Fallon Fox, "Transphobia", or "political correctness".

This is the UFC grinding their ax against Matt Mitrione because he didn't want to be Daniel Cormier sacrificial lamb.

He and Joe Rogan pretty much said the exact same thing, you can take issue with his verbiage. But he feels like this person is committing a fraud, beating women, and playing with the PED system.

He doesn't need to get "educated" he has a deeply moral problem with the ethics of this person fighting.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

John8204 said:


> I don't believe for a second this has anything to do with Fallon Fox, "Transphobia", or "political correctness".
> 
> This is the UFC grinding their ax against Matt Mitrione because he didn't want to be Daniel Cormier sacrificial lamb.
> 
> ...


Gotta disagree with ya on that. Rogan's words were a bit less harsh. I feel like he probably would have been in trouble if he had said something like this while still playing in the NFL (or if he had been in the NBA,MLB, etc.) The UFC is trying not to isolate any potential groups, be it religious, racial, or whatever, most major sports organizations do the same stuff when it comes to staying out of this kind of stuff.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> There's no reason for him to be suspended and there's no reason he should be fined and have it donated to the gays.
> 
> The man spoke his mind, now he's suspended, that's asinine, where did the country I love go? What happened to freedom of speech? Where is this mans rights? America needs more people like Matt Mitrione, don't let the system and this world of politically correctness hold you down, fight back. We gotta stand up or they'll **** us right in the ass.
> 
> ...


Wait.. first you were blaming the LGBTQ community for this, because they need to "grow a pair" and when I correctly point out that the LGBTQ community had nothing to do with this. Now you're blaming it on a country that has failed you? I get it, it's easy to be hurtful from behind a computer screen, especially when it's someone who's a big person in the media. If you truly feel this way about all trans people, my PM inbox is wide open. 

I'm not trolling here, I'm not flaming or anything, I'm merely trying to prove a point. People are needlessly hurtful to people they don't know without a thought to the consequences.

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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Cowgirl said:


> Wait.. first you were blaming the LGBTQ community for this, because they need to "grow a pair" and when I correctly point out that the LGBTQ community had nothing to do with this. Now you're blaming it on a country that has failed you? I get it, it's easy to be hurtful from behind a computer screen, especially when it's someone who's a big person in the media. If you truly feel this way about all trans people, my PM inbox is wide open.
> 
> I'm not trolling here, I'm not flaming or anything, I'm merely trying to prove a point. People are needlessly hurtful to people they don't know without a thought to the consequences.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


I have nothing against transgendered or gay people.

A man has been suspended because he basically called someone a name, that's retarded. That's what the world has come to, that's downright sad, people need to man up.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Cowgirl said:


> It was right in the eyes of the law, so I'm assuming you're talking from a moral standpoint which is incredibly subjective.


Is it right do what Fallon did though from any standpoint? Whatever procedure Fallon has gone through does not change the fact that he/she is not naturally a woman and it's physical makeup reflects this. This is someone using an exceptionally unnatural advantage against their opponents. 30 years of physical development utilizing male structure and capabilities versus cosmetic surgery and hormone treatments. It's an advantage that naturally female fighters cannot possibly have*. 

*Cyborg should be just fine though.

Changing and living as a different gender is one thing. Everyone has the right to live as will make them happy barring it's impact on another's happiness. Changing one's gender and using it as an advantage against someone else is another thing entirely. It becomes not an LBGT issue but a job and fairness issue.

As to Mitrione's words... he took them too far. Threatening his job may be a bit much but I don't hold that against the UFC. Mitrione's a big boy. He opened his mouth in media presence and spoke before thinking. Congratulations, Meathead! You're not that bright.

On a personal note I have no dog in this fight. I'm not part of the LBGT community and I'm not against them either. I don't judge people based off of sexual preference, religious views, or any of the rest of that crap that I just can't bring myself to give a rat's ass about. From a cold clinical stance I have issues with gender switching but it's not something I honestly care about.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

stop trying to make it about transphobia or whatever newfangled word you've made up this year. 

Here is an example of a fighter who wanted to be a girl and did it right. 






Fallon is doing it freakishly, disgustingly wrong.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Alright, I'd like to apologize to everyone here, I lost my calm and I shouldn't have. Some of you have some valid points, but I got too worked up to notice.  

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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...I guess it doesn't matter how far Chael Sonnen or Nick Diaz go when they blaze off at the mouth. Yet again, they never insulted someone's race, gender or creed either. Matt has to learn this country is a game of political correctness. You cross that political correctness line...look out. Matt's got no choice but to suck it up now. It's always good to think for 2 seconds before you speak...


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

There are three main supporters in this thread of a man fighting a woman because he had his dick cut off. Apparently it was cut off for the glory and honor of the LBGBT community:laugh:

One is a dike, one has a sister who is a dike, and the other has a Michael Jackson avy. Wtf is wrong with you people?


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## Jesy Blue (May 8, 2009)

John8204 said:


> This is the UFC grinding their ax against Matt Mitrione because he didn't want to be Daniel Cormier sacrificial lamb.


told everyone dana hates meathead.



Canadian Psycho said:


> Political correctness *is* a form of censorship.


social censorship... correct.

just as i would be fired from my job with the cable company if i was on radio/television/podcast using racial slurs, homophobic slurs or social slurs for individuals, meathead's employer is pulling damage control for his companies image. 

like the guy who slapped a baby on an airplane; his boss fired him that week. nothing to do with his work performance, but that kind of PR is bad for business so they distance themselves from that performance.

i love meathead... always have... still will. but what he did was wrong in the eyes of his employer, and as a public figure, that's something he has to learn to do, or end up like mel gibson.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Rusty said:


> There are three main supporters in this thread of a man fighting a woman because he had his dick cut off. Apparently it was cut off for the glory and honor of the LBGBT community:laugh:
> 
> One is a dike, one has a sister who is a dike, and the other has a Michael Jackson avy. Wtf is wrong with you people?


Are you ******* kidding me?


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

AlphaDawg said:


> This has to be a joke. He didn't say or do anything wrong. Fallon Fox is, whether they want to admit it or not, a dude who mutilated himself. Sorry but that isn't normal. HE has no right to fight women. He should be fighting opponents of his own gender.


There is no such thing as normal. If there were such a thing as normal then "self mutilation" would be normal since tattoos, piercings, and any kind of plastic surgery would fall under that general term. Nature insists that creatures of the same species are both similar and different in many ways; sentience furthers the scope for differences and the terms for similarity. With these truths before us objectively we know that "normality" is a widespread regional delusion at best making its existence hypocritical in nature.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

osmium said:


> There is no such thing as normal. If there were such a thing as normal then "self mutilation" would be normal since tattoos, piercings, and any kind of plastic surgery would fall under that general term. Nature insists that creatures of the same species are both similar and different in many ways; sentience furthers the scope for differences and the terms for similarity. With these truths before us objectively we know that "normality" is a widespread regional delusion at best making its existence hypocritical.


Are you ****ing kidding me??


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)




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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Rusty said:


> There are three main supporters in this thread of a man fighting a woman because he had his dick cut off. *Apparently it was cut off for the glory and honor of the LBGBT community*:laugh:
> 
> One is a dike, one has a sister who is a dike, and the other has a Michael Jackson avy. Wtf is wrong with you people?


Please, enlighten us, when was it established that this was her motivation? I recognize that I'm probably just taking the bait here, but enough is enough.


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

Wow. The UFC isn't playing around with this one.

But I expect Meathead will be reinstated after doing some sort of volunteer work that lets him get to know people in the community his words targeted.


On a sidenote that people keep bringing up:

How close does Fallon Fox need to be to the average female for you to say she doesn't have an advantage for formerly being a man? Exactly average? One standard deviation away? Two or three? Anywhere within the range measured for women? Is the baseline the average for women in society, female athletes, or female mixed martial artists in the 145 lbs weight class?


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

I am not kidding around at all. I'm tired of people claiming that homosexuality, gay marriage, gays adopting children, or anything remotely regarding people choosing to be gay is anything close to being in the ballpark of the conversation of correct. It's not right and never will be.

As animals, humans are able to procreate. In order for them to strengthen their genes and in affect their species, like in all animals, genes are supposed to be ignored or wiped out by natural selection. Susceptible to certain diseases kill some, ignorance or stupidity kill others. Blindness, frailty, and ugliness or asymmetrical features can keep some from acquiring a mate.

I have absolutely no moral obligation to defend sexuality one way or another but when two people can't produce offspring to further their genes then what they are doing is a mistake. Plain and simple. Cutting your reproductive organ off because you are a bitch ranks right up there.

Have your feelings hurt, claim prejudice, claim ignorance, do whatever you want to make yourself feel better but in the end, the LGBT community is an abomination. Suck it ***s


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

SmackyBear said:


> Wow. The UFC isn't playing around with this one.
> 
> But I expect Meathead will be reinstated after doing some sort of volunteer work that lets him get to know people in the community his words targeted.
> 
> ...


Related to your side note, I read somewhere that the gap between the weakest female and the strongest female is wider than the gap between the average female and the average male. I'll see if I can find the source again.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

If we're defining gender by how someone feels; what's stopping a man, with full male anatomy, who happens to feel more like a woman than a man from hopping in the cage and beating the tar out of a woman?

Or what's stopping a mentally ill, struggling male athlete from making a life changing decision to go through a sex change to try and gain a competitive edge.

Maybe this one person has honest intentions but this will open the flood gates to be abused.

There are a lot of huge male 155 fighters that could really hurt a woman in a fight. 

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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

amoosenamedhank said:


> If we're defining gender by how someone feels; what's stopping a man, with full male anatomy, who happens to feel more like a woman than a man from hopping in the cage and beating the tar out of a woman?
> 
> Or what's stopping a mentally ill, struggling male athlete from making a life changing decision to go through a sex change to try and gain a competitive edge.
> 
> ...


Weight classes and MMA/WMMA doesn't allow it's competitors to jump in the cage based on gender, they use sex as the final determination.


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

amoosenamedhank said:


> If we're defining gender by how someone feels; what's stopping a man, with full male anatomy, who happens to feel more like a woman than a man from hopping in the cage and beating the tar out of a woman?
> 
> Or what's stopping a mentally ill, struggling male athlete from making a life changing decision to go through a sex change to try and gain a competitive edge.
> 
> ...


The Association of Boxing Commissions' medical committee's ruling on transgender athletes in sport would stop them.

You need a sex reassignment surgery (SRS) that includes a gonadectomy, followed by at least two years of hormone therapy.

Their policy closely mirrors the Olympics' policy that has been in effect for nearly a decade. There's yet to be a floodgate opening of mediocre male athletes undergoing such a radical change in hopes of athletic glory as a woman.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> Related to your side note, I read somewhere that the gap between the weakest female and the strongest female is wider than the gap between the average female and the average male. I'll see if I can find the source again.


Throw the eunuch in with a man and see how well he does than 

By your post I'd guess that you found that the worlds strongest females are much stronger than an average male. Who would have thought that exceptional would rank above average. Good work Einstein:thumb01:


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Rusty said:


> Throw the eunuch in with a man and see how well he does than
> 
> By your post I'd guess that you found that the worlds strongest females are much stronger than an average male. Who would have thought that exceptional would rank above average. Good work Einstein:thumb01:


I believe you have misinterpreted my statement. I'd appreciate you not condescending to me in the future too please


----------



## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

I thought women wanted to be treated equal?


----------



## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> I believe you have misinterpreted my statement. I'd appreciate you not condescending to me in the future too please


I certainly hope that I did, since I read it as nonsensical lesbian gibberish about women being remotely equal to men in a physical sort of way. 

If so, keep believing that and hope you are never reeducated on the reality of the subject Good day to you Sir Cowgirl, I'm off to bed.


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Keep it classy, Rusty.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Rusty said:


> I certainly hope that I did, since I read it as nonsensical lesbian gibberish about women being remotely equal to men in a physical sort of way.
> 
> If so, keep believing that and hope you are never reeducated on the reality of the subject Good day to you Sir Cowgirl, I'm off to bed.


Keep calling me out, I'm a big girl, I can handle it. Your close minded way of thinking is something I deal with on a daily basis.

All transphobia/censorship issues aside, the UFC needed to act on this.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Say Uriah Hall before TUF was given a fight vs. a former woman who became a man. 

Is there a different stance by anyone involved? Would the commission see it the same? Has it happened?


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Rusty said:


> I certainly hope that I did, since I read it as nonsensical lesbian gibberish about women being remotely equal to men in a physical sort of way.
> 
> If so, keep believing that and hope you are never reeducated on the reality of the subject Good day to you Sir Cowgirl, I'm off to bed.


Posts like this have really opened my eyes as to the kind of backwards, ignorant people actually post on this board. Nothing but condescension and hate. And hate seemingly condoned by the mods by their allowance of these kinds of posts without punishment. And this isn't the first occurrence.

If these kinds of post had been on a racial topic he would have already been banned. Anyone who says shit like what Rusty has in this thread should stop and examine their lives. Hopefully they will come to the same conclusion that the rest of us did a long time ago. That they are a complete retard.


----------



## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

HexRei said:


> Keep it classy, Rusty.


Nice to see you white knighting the lesbian cause in form of infractions HexRei. I would guess your mother will proudly pat you on the back for defending her daughters right to munch carpet on the internet. Keep up the good work twat:bye01:


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Time for a time-out.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Let me say on behalf of those who are rational and secure enough in their sexuality to not foam at the mouth anytime these subjects come up.

Thank you, HexRei.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

I appreciate the intervention as well Hex


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

1. Your sex/gender is determined by what you are born as.
2. People should stop being so sensitive. The dude can say whatever he wants because it's how he feels. "Stand up and speak about what you believe in.......unless I don't believe in it....then shh"

What the dude is doing is the EXACT same as what the group is doing in the first place. He believes it is wrong to promote what they are promoting, they believe he is wrong to speak about what he is speaking about.

He is a dick for saying what he did on TV. Sure. But is being a dick really something to be suspended over in a professional fighting business?


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Yes, suspend someone from their job and means of making money because, oh no, he said something hurtful!

The straight out pussification in America blows my damn mind. Give the guy a warning and let him know that kind of stuff isn't appreciated, tell him that if he continues to do that kind of stuff they will fine him, tell him that they will have to suspend him if it goes beyond that. 

A company doesn't want that kind of stuff tied to them so it's understandable to not want it/tell him to stop, but suspending the man and damaging his ability to make money/keep a steady career before you even give the guy a warning? That's nonsense, complete and utter nonsense.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> He is a dick for saying what he did on TV. Sure. But is being a dick really something to be suspended over in a professional fighting business?


Yeah... when you signed a contract that also involved a certain code of conduct. He knowingly violated the terms of his employment. That's how this works. You sign a contract and don't adhere to it your employers get pissy.


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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

Girls wanted to be treated equally nuff said


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> *1. Your sex/gender is determined by what you are born as.*












Gender is a whole 'nother issue.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> Yeah... when you signed a contract that also involved a certain code of conduct. He knowingly violated the terms of his employment. That's how this works. You sign a contract and don't adhere to it your employers get pissy.


Their code of conduct changes depending on their connections and sponsors. Sonnen did MUCH worse by insulting an entire country.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Their code of conduct changes depending on their connections and sponsors. Sonnen did MUCH worse by insulting an entire country.


Too bad the Code of Conduct has only been in place since January of this year but it truly is hypocrisy on their part for not punishing Sonnen for breaking rules that were not currently in place at the time. Very shortsighted of them.


----------



## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> Gender is a whole 'nother issue.


not when it comes to physical competition..

genetically there are a lot of physical advantages that come with being a male, and developing as a male.. you can not take away all of those advantages by adding hormones and removing reproductive organs...


----------



## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

Seriously I can't believe any adult with their own opinion actually thinks that Fallon is a female.

I could care less what anyone says to try and justify why they think he is a female. Use some common sense people. This guy is abusing the system to a high degree and people are actually backing him because its a sensitive, hot button topic.

Call a spade a spade. The dude is a dude. Plain and simple.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Sonnen did MUCH worse by insulting an entire country.


I agree, and if you are going to punish people for being outward about their views then Dana needs to retroactively punish himself too.

I think Fallon should be able to fight anybody that signs to fight her/him. I don't care if no woman ever wants to fight her/him again, but if they do then by all means they can fight. Otherwise she/he can fight Conor McGregor, Korean Zombie and co.

Fallon is not a woman and Fallon is not a man. Fallon is a ladyboy. Thailand accepts ladyboys as a 3rd gender. That is the stance I have also.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> Too bad the Code of Conduct has only been in place since January of this year but it truly is hypocrisy on their part for not punishing Sonnen for breaking rules that were not currently in place at the time. Very shortsighted of them.


I don't think they would have anyways. Brazilians wouldn't have asked for justice in form of writing or an apology. They put their faith in what you should regarding a fighting company....A FIGHTER!


----------



## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

Stun Gun said:


> Girls wanted to be treated equally nuff said


this made me lol

Guess rogan should be suspended to for offending the fat community..


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

dsmjrv said:


> not when it comes to physical competition..
> 
> genetically there are a lot of advantages that come with being a male, and developing as a male.. you can not take away all of those advantages by adding hormones and removing reproductive organs...


You'd be surprised, I was quite surprised myself when things started changing that I didn't think would. 



demoman993 said:


> Seriously I can't believe any adult with their own opinion actually thinks that Fallon is a female.
> 
> I could care less what anyone says to try and justify why they think he is a female. Use some common sense people. This guy is abusing the system to a high degree and people are actually backing him because its a sensitive, hot button topic.
> 
> ...


Fallon is a woman in every legal and physical aspect. 

You know what, it baffles my mind how a thread that has nothing to do with Fallon's sexuality always turns into a discussion about her sexuality.


----------



## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

Wow i just want to say that i lost some respect for some great posters in this thread, and while some did get their point across in a civil conversation some went over the edge IMO, like Mitrione. its one thing to make jokes in a stand up show about these subjects, and i agree 100% that ppl are too damn sensitive these days but this is a different story, Mitrione was very disrespectful, this would be the same as him calling JBJ a bunch of racial slurs, call him a slave and shit...i doubt so many of you would just be saying "pff ppl are just too PC these days" theres a certain line that he crossed, the only reason so many of you think like this is probably because you agree with him to an extent, this is a public figure calling transgender ppl disgusting freaks...this is VERY different than simply calling someone a ***

This was a hate speech, and it was disgusting anyone defending him surprises me, im 100% positive if he said he didnt want to fight black ppl cause they are disgusting freaks no1 would defend him

I understand some are just against the idea of fallon fighting women, and thats fine! Its a complicated issue, but thats not what im seeing, im seeing some hate torwards transgenders...seems to me like the sensitive ones are the ones that get riled up by ppl being different


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Cowgirl said:


> You know what, it baffles my mind how a thread that has nothing to do with Fallon's sexuality always turns into a discussion about her sexuality.


Demon never mentioned her sexuality.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Demon never mentioned her sexuality.


That part wasn't directed simply at him, and, on a second glance I see I used the wrong phraseology. I should have said sexual identity rather than sexuality.


----------



## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

i do apologize that I didn't discuss the topic. Meathead made a stupid mistake with what he said. he could have got his point across without being a Meathead about it.

Now with that said, I really dont care how anyone argues this. I am a 6'2" 32 year old guy. I've been in more fights with men then I can remember. If I decided to take steps tomorrow to become a female and followed all the rules apparently it would be ok for me to take an MMA fight and mug some poor woman.

Sorry i will not be sold on this topic. Too stubborn to listen.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Cowgirl said:


> That part wasn't directed simply at him, and, on a second glance I see I used the wrong phraseology. I should have said sexual identity rather than sexuality.


Yeah I was thinking 

To be honest, I've never even heard of the person, so I wouldn't put my comments on it.

I wouldn't agree with what Matt said, but at the same time I wouldn't condemn someone for their opinion either. At times I've been sexist, racist or said something hurtful about someone. I'd only have ever done it around people who wouldn't be offended or whatever, but if anything what I'd do is more cowardly. Matt has a belief in this and he doesn't think it's wrong to voice it. I wouldn't suspend him over that. He's a complete dick for bringing it to a media outlet, but fighters aren't celebrities. They don't have the PA or anything to stop that shit. They just say what they want, and fight.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

demoman993 said:


> i do apologize that I didn't discuss the topic. Meathead made a stupid mistake with what he said. he could have got his point across without being a Meathead about it.
> 
> Now with that said, I really dont care how anyone argues this. I am a 6'2" 32 year old guy. I've been in more fights with men then I can remember. If I decided to take steps tomorrow to become a female and followed all the rules apparently it would be ok for me to take an MMA fight and mug some poor woman.
> 
> ...



By the time that you met the basic requirements, you would be too old to be an effective MMA fighter.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Cowgirl said:


> By the time that you met the basic requirements, you would be too old to be an effective MMA fighter.


Okay, then me . I'm 6ft, nearly 15 stone, 20 yrs old. I could be a woman in what? 5-10 years? (An ugly ass one at that). I don't think it could EVER be fair for me to have an ACTUAL fight with a woman, no matter how I feel "inside".


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Canadian Psycho said:


> You said sex refers to organs, and suggested that Fallon is female. How do you know he's undergone this groundbreaking vaginal construction process? For all we know it's a disaster area down there. You're suggesting that the mere act of having one's penis removed makes him a woman. And I'm sure it's not quite that simple.
> 
> This is a sensitive issue for you. I get that. But you can't just go around telling everyone to educate themselves just because they disagree with you. Yes, a big part of being female is having a vagina, ovaries, and as you put it, the 'plumbing'. This doesn't mean that women with defective reproductive organs aren't female, because they still have them (regardless of whether they function). Fox - by design - does not... if you're going to say that organs define sex, then you have to acknowledge the natural, female organs that Fox is missing and was not born with. This isn't as neat and tidy a situation as you make it seem.
> 
> Surgery and pills only do so much.


Not trying to single you out CP but I just thought i'd quote you since you are constructive.

I agree with Cowgirl that gender is a much more subjective thing than people like to admit. Humans like everything to fit into nice neat and tidy organizations, but unfortunately nature doesn't always work that way.

Take a hermaphrodite, for example. In some cases both reproductive organs are present. How can they, and we as a society, decide which gender they belong to? Testicles are present. Ovaries? check. Now what? 

I personally have a very hard time defining what it is to be male or female when people are born different and also when people undergo major operations that remove genitals. It comes down to so many insignificant factors.



ACTAFOOL said:


> Wow i just want to say that i lost some respect for some great posters in this thread, and while some did get their point across in a civil conversation some went over the edge IMO, like Mitrione. its one thing to make jokes in a stand up show about these subjects, and i agree 100% that ppl are too damn sensitive these days but this is a different story, Mitrione was very disrespectful, this would be the same as him calling JBJ a bunch of racial slurs, call him a slave and shit...i doubt so many of you would just be saying "pff ppl are just too PC these days" theres a certain line that he crossed, the only reason so many of you think like this is probably because you agree with him to an extent, this is a public figure calling transgender ppl disgusting freaks...this is VERY different than simply calling someone a ***
> 
> This was a hate speech, and it was disgusting anyone defending him surprises me, im 100% positive if he said he didnt want to fight black ppl cause they are disgusting freaks no1 would defend him
> 
> I understand some are just against the idea of fallon fighting women, and thats fine! Its a complicated issue, but thats not what im seeing, im seeing some hate torwards transgenders...seems to me like the sensitive ones are the ones that get riled up by ppl being different


Great post. rep.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Ape City said:


> Not trying to single you out CP but I just thought i'd quote you since you are constructive.
> 
> I agree with Cowgirl that gender is a much more subjective thing than people like to admit. Humans like everything to fit into nice neat and tidy organizations, but unfortunately nature doesn't always work that way.
> 
> ...


I disagree. Just because a male has many tendencies that a female has. They might be attracted to men, they might act or think a certain way, but at the end of the day...it's still a male.

So many people "think they are a woman". Is this any different from the camp and fuk gay guys and even straight guys, who basically act like a woman as well? I feel it's just down to confusion and a lack of confidence to understand their feelings and thoughts. Being bullied plays a MASSIVE part in it as well.

I know I'm changing the topic, but I feel your up bringing plays a big part in your sexuality. People who are just naturally camp get called gay from such a young age, and before they actually develop any sexual feelings towards male or female, it's getting drilled into their head (pun NOT intended ).

I change topics, I know, sorry . But to be fair everyone's taking the high road with a spirited conversation so no need for mods to shut down the party just yet


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I disagree. Just because a male has many tendencies that a female has. They might be attracted to men, they might act or think a certain way, but at the end of the day...it's still a male.
> 
> So many people "think they are a woman". Is this any different from the camp and fuk gay guys and even straight guys, who basically act like a woman as well? I feel it's just down to confusion and a lack of confidence to understand their feelings and thoughts. Being bullied plays a MASSIVE part in it as well.
> 
> ...


My point is that deciding what requirements must be met to define what is a male or what is a female come down to semantics. As I stated in my first post, what exactly would you do in the case of a hermaphrodite that wanted to participate in MMA?


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Ape City said:


> My point is that deciding what requirements must be met to define what is a male or what is a female come down to semantics. As I stated in my first post, what exactly would you do in the case of a hermaphrodite that wanted to participate in MMA?


I couldn't answer as the situation would have to come up. But the guys aren't discussing that, they are discussing someone born a man, competing as a woman.

What decides a male and female comes down to what you are born as to me. Born a man, you're a man. Simple as.


----------



## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> You'd be surprised, I was quite surprised myself when things started changing that I didn't think would.


you are a man that became a woman?

so you're saying that your bone structure has changed? your joints and tendons became smaller? your peripheral vision increased? your reflexes slowed? did your pelvic structure widened? did your heart also shrink by 25%? did your lungs shrink as well? are you less tolerant to pain? have you lost any spatial awareness? did you become worse at math? did your heart bpm increase? 

the problem is that no matter what you do, you cant change your chromosomal pattern. And the implications of those genetic components range from obvious to extremely subtle, and can never be completely reversed. there are Psychological and physiological differences that are determined by your genetics from birth, and cant be changed. Im really not sure how to make it clearer than that...


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

dsmjrv said:


> you are a man that became a woman?
> 
> so you're saying that your bone structure has changed? your joints and tendons became smaller? your peripheral vision increased? your reflexes slowed? did your pelvic structure widened? did your heart also shrink by 25%? did your lungs shrink as well? are you less tolerant to pain? have you lost any spatial awareness? did you become worse at math? did your heart bpm increase?
> 
> the problem is that no matter what you do, you cant change your chromosomal pattern. And the implications of those genetic components range from obvious to extremely subtle, and can never be completely reversed. there are Psychological and physiological differences that are determined by your genetics from birth, and cant be changed. Im really not sure how to make it clearer than that...


There is a girl in my martial arts class. Literally if I even get CLOSE to practising my wrist locks on her, her arms would break. She's like 6 belts higher. Women will ALWAYS be weaker than men. A guy is going to knock out Ronda Rousey without any trouble, it's as simple as that. I don't know about this one scenario, but it's not the testosterone level which makes a man. Everything you said with bone structure and tendon strength etc. is.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> There is a girl in my martial arts class. Literally if I even get CLOSE to practising my wrist locks on her, her arms would break. She's like 6 belts higher. Women will ALWAYS be weaker than men. A guy is going to knock out Ronda Rousey without any trouble, it's as simple as that. I don't know about this one scenario,* but it's not the testosterone level which makes a man. Everything you said with bone structure and tendon strength etc. is.*


Testosterone, or lack thereof, has a direct effect on these things.


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I couldn't answer as the situation would have to come up. But the guys aren't discussing that, they are discussing someone born a man, competing as a woman.
> 
> What decides a male and female comes down to what you are born as to me. Born a man, you're a man. Simple as.


Pretend the situation came up right now. Pretend Fallon Fox was born a true hermaphrodite and there was no way to physically determine sexuality based on organs alone. Wouldn't this theoretical Fallon have the right to decide to be a he or a she? 

I call BS on the whole ability to define gender specifically based on the existence of hermaphrodites alone. 

They way I see it, Fallon Fox is a women. A women who was once a man. She can never not be a women who was once a man, but she certainly isn't a man anymore! Just for the record despite me being on the this side of the argument I actually don't think Fallon should be allowed to compete.



ClydebankBlitz said:


> There is a girl in my martial arts class. Literally if I even get CLOSE to practising my wrist locks on her, her arms would break. She's like 6 belts higher. Women will ALWAYS be weaker than men. A guy is going to knock out Ronda Rousey without any trouble, it's as simple as that. I don't know about this one scenario, *but it's not the testosterone level which makes a man.* Everything you said with bone structure and tendon strength etc. is.


Actually testosterone has an enormous impact on muscle mass, bone density, and many other developments we associate with being male. When a man begins estrogen therapy they can lose as much as 33% of their muscle mass from the lack of testosterone.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

So wait? All you have to do is make some offensive remarks and you get your contract suspended?

Why did no one tell Rampage?


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> So wait? All you have to do is make some offensive remarks and you get your contract suspended?
> 
> Why did no one tell Rampage?


The whole enforcement of code of conduct thing is pretty new, it wasnt around for most of Rampage's hijinx. Plus they still need to cut some fighters. He's handing them a decent excuse, hopefully it wont happen as I like the guy's fights.


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Ape City said:


> Pretend the situation came up right now. Pretend Fallon Fox was born a true hermaphrodite and there was no way to physically determine sexuality based on organs alone. Wouldn't this theoretical Fallon have the right to decide to be a he or a she?
> 
> I call BS on the whole ability to define gender specifically based on the existence of hermaphrodites alone.
> 
> ...


I couldn't tell you if a hermaphrodite should be allowed to compete. I'm assuming there are certain factors which would influence the decision.

I don't believe a man can just be a woman because they decide to be, and vice versa. 

33% of a man's muscle mass > a womans. They can weight lift all they want, a man is still going to be stronger.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> This is a good move on the part of the UFC, they are proving that their code of conduct is a legitimate thing. Mitrione was way out of line here and something needed to be done.
> 
> AlphaDawg, Fallon Fox is not a man who mutilated himself, and your comments are insensitive.
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


Ok now im getting pissed off with you, if you are gonna do something like involve yourself deeply with transgender problems and whatnot you have to be able to take criticism and deal with it. 

This is what sickens me about what america has unfortunately been taken over by, every special interest group that gets their stupid feelings hurt over some comments because they have no backbones and sue or slander a company or network til their "enemy" is gone. 

Meathead had a legit thing to say and the UFC are now officially if they weren't before corporate puss.ies who are now politically correct for their fighters and freedom of speech even when not on a UFC promo or press conference is not allowed.


----------



## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

dsmjrv said:


> you are a man that became a woman?
> 
> so you're saying that your bone structure has changed? your joints and tendons became smaller? your peripheral vision increased? your reflexes slowed? did your pelvic structure widened? did your heart also shrink by 25%? did your lungs shrink as well? are you less tolerant to pain? have you lost any spatial awareness? did you become worse at math? did your heart bpm increase?
> 
> the problem is that no matter what you do, you cant change your chromosomal pattern. And the implications of those genetic components range from obvious to extremely subtle, and can never be completely reversed. there are Psychological and physiological differences that are determined by your genetics from birth, and cant be changed. Im really not sure how to make it clearer than that...


What are the acceptable ranges of every quality you mentioned for women? Do you know if Fox is outside any of them?



ClydebankBlitz said:


> There is a girl in my martial arts class. Literally if I even get CLOSE to practising my wrist locks on her, her arms would break. She's like 6 belts higher. Women will ALWAYS be weaker than men. A guy is going to knock out Ronda Rousey without any trouble, it's as simple as that. I don't know about this one scenario, but it's not the testosterone level which makes a man. Everything you said with bone structure and tendon strength etc. is.


Ronda Rousey whipped Vic Darchinyan pretty easily. She also out grappled Uriah Hall, granted there was no striking for Hall.

Ronda is certainly an outlier on the distribution of female athletes. But the men's and women's distributions of many traits do overlap considerably.


Back to the main topic: I'm surprised Mitrione didn't think this could be trouble while he was preparing his Mitrione minute. You can see from Ariel's face, he knows this is going to end badly.


----------



## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Ok now im getting pissed off with you, if you are gonna do something like involve yourself deeply with transgender problems and whatnot you have to be able to take criticism and deal with it.
> 
> This is what sickens me about what america has unfortunately been taken over by, every special interest group that gets their stupid feelings hurt over some comments because they have no backbones and sue or slander a company or network til their "enemy" is gone.
> 
> Meathead had a legit thing to say and the UFC are now officially if they weren't before corporate puss.ies who are now politically correct for their fighters and freedom of speech even when not on a UFC promo or press conference is not allowed.


She's taking the criticism just fine? She's defending her stance, in a respectful manner, while others resort to childish insults and show how close minded they are. 

Meathead was disrespectful, I think some form of punishment is need, maybe this is too harsh, but either way. Good on the UFC for following through with something


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Luckily, in Glasgow, political correctness has yet to hit


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> *Ok now im getting pissed off with you, if you are gonna do something like involve yourself deeply with transgender problems and whatnot you have to be able to take criticism and deal with it.*
> 
> This is what sickens me about what america has unfortunately been taken over by, every special interest group that gets their stupid feelings hurt over some comments because they have no backbones and sue or slander a company or network til their "enemy" is gone.
> 
> Meathead had a legit thing to say and the UFC are now officially if they weren't before corporate puss.ies who are now politically correct for their fighters and freedom of speech even when not on a UFC promo or press conference is not allowed.


There's a difference between criticism and outright disrespect. I think that to say I can't take criticism on this issue is a bit of a stretch, as I have taken a whole lot of criticism over the numerous Fallon Fox threads. In a sense, you are right though, I refuse to take criticism that is based in ignorance over fact.


----------



## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> Testosterone, or lack thereof, has a direct effect on these things.





Ape City said:


> Actually testosterone has an enormous impact on muscle mass, bone density, and many other developments we associate with being male. When a man begins estrogen therapy they can lose as much as 33% of their muscle mass from the lack of testosterone.


direct effect yes, proven muscle loss yes.. 

its not the be all end all of what makes a male a male, not even close...


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

dsmjrv said:


> direct effect yes, proven muscle loss yes..
> 
> its not the be all end all of what makes a male a male, not even close...


Would you care to elaborate what you feel makes a male a male then please?


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

well **** it then, i want a new policy made by the UFC, every fighter must keep their mouth shut or they get fired because then the world can not be offended and life can be censored and everybody can all be happy right? In fact anderson said I break yo face man to chael he should eb fired right now because people with broken faces are offended, and junior dos santos said frank mir is not a man thats disrespectful to insecure men who are feminine fire him too


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> Would you care to elaborate what you feel makes a male a male then please?


i like how you conveniently ignored this...



dsmjrv said:


> so you're saying that your bone structure has changed? your joints and tendons became smaller? your peripheral vision increased? your reflexes slowed? did your pelvic structure widened? did your heart also shrink by 25%? did your lungs shrink as well? are you less tolerant to pain? have you lost any spatial awareness? did you become worse at math? did your heart bpm increase?
> 
> the problem is that no matter what you do, you cant change your chromosomal pattern. And the implications of those genetic components range from obvious to extremely subtle, and can never be completely reversed. there are Psychological and physiological differences that are determined by your genetics from birth, and cant be changed. Im really not sure how to make it clearer than that...


just a few examples... 

its true though, if i got my balls cut off i wouldn't feel like a man... but i also wouldn't feel like it would be right fighting women...


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

dsmjrv said:


> i like how you conveniently ignored this...
> 
> 
> 
> just a few examples...


Once again, what are the acceptable ranges for these qualities in women?


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## HaVoK (Dec 31, 2006)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Is this legit? Being investigated? Lmao, they'd have you believe he shot someone.
> 
> Blackzilians lol
> 
> ...


Typical corporate rhetoric. Nothing to investigate.

Any Company in America would have suspended an employee for similar comments. I am sure he will hold himself accountable.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Frankly, I'm not against men living as women and women living as men. I've always looked at things with a 'live and let live' mindset. This entire sex-change issue has been more about someone born a man fighting women for a living, and whether that's right or wrong. But this is a completely different matter. Meathead does deserve to be 'punished' for his words, because they were harsh and unnecessary... but again, I think a simple fine would have sufficed and appeased the whistle blowers.
> 
> Suspending him because he used the term 'freak' when people higher up in the organization have publicly uttered far worse is a bit drastic.


It's nothing but an attempt to appease corporate sponsors. The UFC is trying hard to be mainstream now....


Some part of me misses the day when most people thought the UFC was a pro wrestling offshoot and we had Condom Depot plastered on the back of high profile fighter's shorts.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

I can choose to get offended over anything and everything I want but then I would be an idiot and an asshole with no backbone, and that's what people who think they have a right not to feel bad by comments are. You have no right to tell people not what they can say without them getting in trouble, and if you are offended (god help you) then keep it to yourself or just say that guys a dick but of course it never ends there does it. 

This conversation is just getting more angrier and angrier by the minute so once again I call upon my man from beyond Patrice O'neal to bring forth some wisdom witch i'm sure cowgirl and every other offended and this is outrageous person will ignore or call him ignorant. Oh and won't someone please think of the children.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> I can choose to get offended over anything and everything I want but then I would be an idiot and an asshole with no backbone, and that's what people who think they have a right not to feel bad by comments are. You have no right to tell people not what they can say without them getting in trouble, and if you are offended (god help you) then keep it to yourself or just say that guys a dick but of course it never ends there does it.
> 
> This conversation is just getting more angrier and angrier by the minute so once again I call upon my man from beyond Patrice O'neal to bring forth some wisdom witch i'm sure cowgirl and every other offended and this is outrageous person will ignore or call him ignorant. Oh and won't someone please think of the children.



Is the conversation getting angrier? I don't think it is. It's not about choosing to be offended or not. Meathead's comments crossed a line and some form of repercussion was necessary to set a precedent.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> Is the conversation getting angrier? I don't think it is. It's not about choosing to be offended or not. Meathead's comments crossed a line and some form of repercussion was necessary to set a precedent.


And bang that's being offended, wanting or asking for a repercussion for comments to set a precedent, that's a funny thing you people always say is that i'm not offended but I, and I cut you off right there because immediately after that I.... is your badly covered excuse to say that i'm not an offended person but I will disguise my disgust in another way so you don't think i'm full of shit for what I just said.


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

UFC_OWNS said:


> And bang that's being offended, wanting or asking for a repercussion for comments to set a precedent, that's a funny thing you people always say is that i'm not offended but I, and I cut you off right there because immediately after that I.... is your badly covered excuse to say that i'm not an offended person but I will disguise my disgust in another way so you don't think i'm full of shit for what I just said.


Did the trans community say they'd boycott the UFC's sponsors if they didn't discipline Meathead, or did the UFC just suspend him immediately?

I'm pretty sure it was the UFC. There wasn't some flood of offended people.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> And bang that's being offended, wanting or asking for a repercussion for comments to set a precedent, that's a funny thing you people always say is that i'm not offended but I, and I cut you off right there because immediately after that I.... is your badly covered excuse to say that i'm not an offended person but I will disguise my disgust in another way so you don't think i'm full of shit for what I just said.


I never once said I wasn't offended, I said it wasn't a choice to be offended or not to be offended. We clearly don't see eye to eye on this issue and this issue is not related to the OP. My inbox is open if you wish to discuss this further OWNS.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> Is the conversation getting angrier? I don't think it is. It's not about choosing to be offended or not. Meathead's comments crossed a line and some form of repercussion was necessary to set a precedent.


I don't say this often but Owns is right. 

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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Cowgirl said:


> Is the conversation getting angrier? I don't think it is. It's not about choosing to be offended or not. Meathead's comments crossed a line and some form of repercussion was necessary to set a precedent.


So you believe that taking away a man's ability to make money to support his family, damaging his career, hurting his relationship with sponsors is all justified because he said a few words that you personally are offended about?

That's some really sick and twisted stuff right there.


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

SmackyBear said:


> Once again, what are the acceptable ranges for these qualities in women?


im not sure anyone or even any "very rich" organization would deem it fit or worth the money to create a proper outline of acceptable ranges of masculine and femanine qualities that would make a transgender athlete "fairly" acceptable within any physical competition... its not profitable for one, and all that time, work, and money doesn't appeal to the masses in a form of PR either...

so to directly answer your question.. i dont know.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

SmackyBear said:


> Did the trans community say they'd boycott the UFC's sponsors if they didn't discipline Meathead, or did the UFC just suspend him immediately?
> 
> I'm pretty sure it was the UFC. There wasn't some flood of offended people.


@cowgirl don't worry you don't get it, and you don't get it either smackybear. The UFC as I already mentioned are now so corporate and politically correct stricken on comments said by fighters (see miguel torres and forrest griffin) that now they give punishments to fighters before there is even a consequence like that come forth, and don't you worry read bloody elbow comments and you will see what I mean and this is still after a quick punishment from the UFC and no group has had the chance to dig in yet and they can't properly since the UFC have already taken action.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

M.C said:


> So you believe that taking away a man's ability to make money to support his family, damaging his career, hurting his relationship with sponsors is all justified because he said a few words that you personally are offended about?
> 
> That's some really sick and twisted stuff right there.


I wasn't aware that being a fighter immediately precluded a person from making any other income. Whatever actions he had taken against him fall squarely on his shoulders, as two seconds of thought before launching into his tirade would have saved him this whole headache.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

M.C said:


> So you believe that taking away a man's ability to make money to support his family, damaging his career, hurting his relationship with sponsors is all justified because he said a few words that you personally are offended about?
> 
> That's some really sick and twisted stuff right there.


Yeah and thar's another thing you ******* armchair critics and i'm so offended people are selfish too, as long as your happy for 5 minutes over bullcrap you don't care who's fired or suspend and can't make a living or now they feel like crap for ages just for voicing there opinion. Same with people who say fighters should retire, oh ok and who's gonna pay them now that they are retire you? I don't think so


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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

M.C said:


> So you believe that taking away a man's ability to make money to support his family, damaging his career, hurting his relationship with sponsors is all justified because he said a few words that you personally are offended about?
> 
> That's some really sick and twisted stuff right there.


Not once has she stated that what happened was the right punishment, simply stated that some sort of punishment was needed


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> I wasn't aware that being a fighter immediately precluded a person from making any other income. Whatever actions he had taken against him fall squarely on his shoulders, as two seconds of thought before launching into his tirade would have saved him this whole headache.


Again you and your stupid censorship and politically correctness, oh sure maybe he can work at a crappy 7/11 and make one one hundreth of what he would make with the UFC how good for him and hey now that all his time is occupied to make donut money his training times are cut significantly and he gets worse but yay for your solution.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Keep it civil people. Lets not all be p.c offended but at least attempt to not offend anyone.

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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Cowgirl said:


> I wasn't aware that being a fighter immediately precluded a person from making any other income. Whatever actions he had taken against him fall squarely on his shoulders, as two seconds of thought before launching into his tirade would have saved him this whole headache.


What? Are you insane? That is some ridiculous nonsense you are spewing out right now, absolutely ridiculous.

You are perfectly okay with a man getting suspended from his career and his main means of income to support his family (he has 3 kids, you know) because he said something you personally don't like?

That is sick, disgusting and downright retarded, there is no way to be nice about that, trust me I tried when typing this.


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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

M.C said:


> What? Are you insane? That is some ridiculous nonsense you are spewing out right now, absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> You are perfectly okay with a man getting suspended from his career and his main means of income to support his family (he has 3 kids, you know) because he said something you personally don't like?
> 
> That is sick, disgusting and downright retarded, there is no way to be nice about that, trust me I tried when typing this.


Relax


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

M.C said:


> What? Are you insane? That is some ridiculous nonsense you are spewing out right now, absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> You are perfectly okay with a man getting suspended from his career and his main means of income to support his family (he has 3 kids, you know) because he said something you personally don't like?
> 
> That is sick, disgusting and downright retarded, there is no way to be nice about that, trust me I tried when typing this.


my sentiments exactly i'm ducking out of this thread before I get really mad, disgusting human beings with their flawed logic and corrupt personalities


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Yeah and thar's another thing you ******* armchair critics and i'm so offended people are selfish too, as long as your happy for 5 minutes over bullcrap you don't care who's fired or suspend and can't make a living or now they feel like crap for ages just for voicing there opinion. Same with people who say fighters should retire, oh ok and who's gonna pay them now that they are retire you? I don't think so


Consumerism is completed rooted in selfishness. If I call for Tim Sylvia's retirement because I have no interest in seeing him obviously the implication is that I will not financially or in any other way provide a company incentive to continue to put Tim Sylvia on a show. This is the entertainment business and thus inherently caters to human selfishness.

A guy, by all means has the right to fight scrubs at the regional level like Ken Shamrock who just can't let it go....but every sane person has the right to tell him to **** off and retire already and get a real job if he didn't save his fortune.


As far as not being able to make a living...those sort of things happen for a myriad of reasons and any single person who isn't their own boss is not entitled to their particular position or line of work or income. It can be taken suddenly and without warning and this pretty much applies to everything.



In this case...Mitrione said some hateful things in Corporate America. Obviously career suicide if you are a public figure here especially a low level one at that...and I have no empathy for him because well...tough shit.


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

M.C said:


> So you believe that taking away a man's ability to make money to support his family, damaging his career, hurting his relationship with sponsors is all justified because he said a few words that you personally are offended about?
> 
> That's some really sick and twisted stuff right there.


If it's anything like Miguel Torres' situation, he'll be back in a few weeks. So he'll essentially have no real consequences, since he won't miss a fight.



dsmjrv said:


> im not sure anyone or even any "very rich" organization would deem it fit or worth the money to create a proper outline of acceptable ranges of masculine and femanine qualities that would make a transgender athlete "fairly" acceptable within any physical competition... its not profitable for one, and all that time, work, and money doesn't appeal to the masses in a form of PR either...
> 
> so to directly answer your question.. i dont know.


Men and women are different because they posses different characteristics, some of which you give as examples, but the differences in those characteristics can't be quantified?

By the way, the International Olympic Committee did look into this, and decided it was an exercise in futility to quantify traits besides testosterone. That's why I keep bringing it up. Everyone saying 'athlete X will have an advantage in trait Y' first needs to define the acceptable ranges for those traits.



UFC_OWNS said:


> @cowgirl don't worry you don't get it, and you don't get it either smackybear. The UFC as I already mentioned are now so corporate and politically correct stricken on comments said by fighters (see miguel torres and forrest griffin) that now they give punishments to fighters before there is even a consequence like that come forth, and don't you worry read bloody elbow comments and you will see what I mean and this is still after a quick punishment from the UFC and no group has had the chance to dig in yet and they can't properly since the UFC have already taken action.


I get it, I just think "it" is pointless. It's the UFC's ball. If you're a fighter and don't like their conduct policy, go somewhere else.


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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

I don't see why anybody would be surprised that the UFC brass opted to suspend him. With the whole deal with Fox, while also trying to expand globally and gain a larger demographic, there's just no way the UFC would've just let this slip by without giving Matt a punishment. The UFC HAS to be politically correct. They HAVE to align themselves with the right movements if expansion is what they're going for.

I don't fault Matt for speaking his mind, but he seriously should have seen this coming a mile away.


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

SmackyBear said:


> Men and women are different because they posses different characteristics, some of which you give as examples, but the differences in those characteristics can't be quantified


okay, but physical differences can always be quantified


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I suggest you all watch the greatest movie ever made(see the nude love scene between Raquel and Farrah Fawcet) to learn why FALLON IS DOING IT WRONG ... Myra did it right 








...and when are some of you going to pull your offended heads out of what ever orifice you have it in down there and realize that Meathead was only insulting the disgusting freak Fallon for his deceptive, cowardly, sociopathic actions. He gave no insult to transgender-ed people in general. Some people are in such a hurry to be offended ....


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## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

Suspending & monetarily penalizing Matt Mitrione is over the top & extremely hypocritical by the UFC. To do this when you have a high profile UFC announcer making far worse statements than Mitrione's & there is zero reaction from the UFC, screams bias. Not only has Rogan made far worse statemants on this subject, a certain UFC executive has made even more offensive comments than this throughout the years.

I will now no longer buy the 3-4 PPV(s) that I buy each year as a result of hypocritical oversensitive corporate PC crap. The only way to send is a message is to do so with your money.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Yeah we're done with this as it has once again turned into mud slinging and insults.

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