# Nick Diaz Announcement!!



## WarCraved (Jul 9, 2012)

http://graciefighter.com/

^^ Read it guys. Wow, crazy stuff.

Apparently he wants A. Silva! That'd be such a crazy, and hyped up fight, I don't even know if I'd be able to control myself! D:
I know plenty of people who have been wanting this super fight, but have definitely doubted the possibility, well... They might get that super fight. I personally don't know what's going to happen, but I'm sure Anderson would love to fight Diaz, he doesn't like any of the other options that are coming up for him at the moment.

What do you guys think about this announcement?



> It’s been a trying time these last 4 months as I have been faced with the prospect that one of our team’s most talented fighters had decided to leave the sport. As a fan I’ve always admired what both of the Diaz’s brought to the cage; a combination of technical brilliance and raw violence.
> 
> Nate Diaz has finally put his game together and found the formula to propel him to the top of the 155lbs division. To see Nick leave at the top of his game was difficult.
> 
> ...


----------



## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Anderson would kill him.

I'm just looking forward to his next fight so I can see one of those wrestlers take him down and hold him down and then watch him throw another temper tantrum and complain about the rules.


----------



## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Diaz will be finished if this happens.


----------



## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

OMG!!!! Make it Happen!!! That fight would be Sick... Nick has the balls GSP was born without!!!!!


----------



## rul3z (Jun 27, 2010)

Anderson will sweep the octagon with him in a single round!

Lame match if its done, because it would be a one sided match!


----------



## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

rul3z said:


> Anderson will sweep the octagon with him in a single round!
> 
> Lame match if its done, because it would be a one sided match!


Agreed. Anderson is way too accurate and powerful to come at him like Diaz would.


----------



## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

So a WW coming off a loss and an epic bitchfest wants the greatest MW ever? and this makes sense somehow?

Never mind what I think about the fight itself, this utter bullshit as far as matchmaking goes. This sort of thing happens on reality shows, not legitimate sporting competitions.

ETA: OMG. "Malicious incompetence." That's... I can't even begin to describe the glory with which this term fails to make any sense. It's the double rainbow of idiocy.


----------



## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

to those whining, you would have a point if there were 3 or 4 guys that were legitimate challenges to Silva but there are none. Atleast Diaz would bring the fight and not stand there like Okami and Belfort, whose Anderson gonna fight instead? Bisping? If Anderson isn't fighting Jon Jones atleast make it against someone who shows up to fight.


----------



## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

rabakill said:


> to those whining, you would have a point if there were 3 or 4 guys that were legitimate challenges to Silva but there are none. Atleast Diaz would bring the fight and not stand there like Okami and Belfort, whose Anderson gonna fight instead? Bisping? If Anderson isn't fighting Jon Jones atleast make it against someone who shows up to fight.


I agree with this...and I'm not sure Diaz would get destroyed like some say...


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Considering Diaz has struggled mightily with extremely poor man's versions of Anderson in Condit and Cyborg, pretty safe to say this would be a massacre.


----------



## MagiK11 (Dec 31, 2006)

Roflcopter said:


> Considering Diaz has struggled mightily with extremely poor man's versions of Anderson in Condit and Cyborg, pretty safe to say this would be a massacre.



Yeah, I'd have to fully agree, but none the less, I'd tune in to watch it lol


----------



## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

Atleast he would bring the fight to silva. Might be interesting to see how silva responds to be pressured in the stand up the entire time.


----------



## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> Atleast he would bring the fight to silva. Might be interesting to see how silva responds to be pressured in the stand up the entire time.


We saw that with Chris Leben and Forrest Griffin


----------



## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

Fieos said:


> We saw that with Chris Leben and Forrest Griffin


As though their boxing is even on the level of diaz's. Give me a break.


----------



## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

Anderson is a worst match up for Diaz than GSP. Anderson by murder. Though Diaz actually has to win a couple first to get back to the top, especially a 185 fight for this to be even considered. This is one thing where Diaz can cry alot but wont get what he wants.

PS. Silva vs GSP or Silva vs Jones = Superfight, Silva vs Diaz = not, likely a one sided beatdown. It was like saying that Lesnar vs Overeem was a Superfight. GSP vs Shields was one because Shields never lost and was still considered that linear SF MW Champion. Condit vs GSP in theory would be a superfight, but no one would claim it.


----------



## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> As though their boxing is even on the level of diaz's. Give me a break.


Do you really think the fight would last any longer than Silva wanted to?


----------



## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

Fieos said:


> Do you really think the fight would last any longer than Silva wanted to?


No I do not


----------



## WarCraved (Jul 9, 2012)

I apologize if I made this way more than it actually was. Didn't mean to specifically say super fight, just got all pumped up. 

I personally would just love to see the taunting, the weigh ins, and the hype from the fight, where I wouldn't even care if it was a super great fight or not, just that it actually happened.


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

Diaz isn't even good enough to become the INTERIM WELTERWEIGHT champion, and he wants to fight the ACTUAL MIDDLEWEIGHT champion and GOAT???
Diaz would get murdered, this is a stupid fight Silva is the one who should be moving up in weight.


----------



## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

What kind of message would it send to MMA haters/boxing fans that their best fighter is fighting someone who lost their last fight and is in the weight class below.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

DJ Syko said:


> What kind of message would it send to MMA haters/boxing fans that their best fighter is fighting someone who lost their last fight and is in the weight class below.


Boxing figures can't say a word against MMA after the Bradley-Pacquiao decision imo. 

We saw what Cyborg was able to accomplish against Nick, multiply that with 25mand you get Silva-Diaz.


----------



## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

rabakill said:


> to those whining, you would have a point if there were 3 or 4 guys that were legitimate challenges to Silva but there are none. Atleast Diaz would bring the fight and not stand there like Okami and Belfort, whose Anderson gonna fight instead? Bisping? If Anderson isn't fighting Jon Jones atleast make it against someone who shows up to fight.


Weidman, Boestch, and Belcher should all be ahead of Bisping.

But since they don't sell fights with their mouths, Bisping probably will get a title shot if he beats Stann.


----------



## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

I support this fight just to see Diaz get knocked the **** out.


----------



## JWP (Jun 4, 2007)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Anderson would kill him.
> 
> I'm just looking forward to his next fight so I can see one of those wrestlers take him down and hold him down and then watch him throw another temper tantrum and complain about the rules.


coz its heaps fun watching someone hold someone down. as opposed to say... fighting

agreed about anderson, would be a bloodbath - but fun to watch!


----------



## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

I'd pay to watch Diaz get brain damage...

Sent from my HTC-X710a using VerticalSports.Com App


----------



## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

screw it, it makes no sense what so ever and yet i ould be more hyped for that fight then i have been in a while


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

This fight will be absolutely crazy, picture the pre fight hype, then the fight. 

Silva dropping his hands matrixing diaz, or taking his soft punches, or diaz giving silva the middle finger/talking shit in the ring.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

There's no way in the world Diaz deserves a fight with Anderson, yet I'd watch the hell out of it.


----------



## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

this is ridiculous, i hope he gets shot down. this is a damn sport and its silly when guys think they can just talk their way into title shots and big fights. Yeah chael had a big mouth but thats not the reason he got his title fight, it was because he dominated other top MWs then kicked andersons ass for 24 mins. then came back and humiliated stann who even though isnt a good wrestler is still a tough fight for anyone, and he "beats" bisping (i still think he lost that fight)

still thats why he got his shot, there needed to be a rematch to prove AS was better, if that triangle had come in the 1st round i doubt chael would have gotten a rematch

and despite being a huge anderson fan hes becoming a huge ***** nowadays, big name fights, bla bla bla...at the end of the day he always fights who the UFC puts in front of him and i respect that, but stop bitching about who you want to fight, your the champ and your job is to defend the belt against the #1 contender. it doesnt matter if no one knows who the hell CW is, if dana says hes the #1 contender you shut up and KO him

anderson has said he wants to fight into his 40s, hes not that close to retiring, just beat CW, belcher and bisping and if no new contenders come up you can always retire or move up

anyway back on topic, diaz is a joke, this fight is a joke. anderson will dominate him and ppl will bitch about how anderson doesnt fight legit guys and only "picks easy fights"...


----------



## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

If they did it at a 180lb catch weight then we'd have no worries, with no title implications this is just a fun fight for Anderson while he waits for a clear cut no.1 contender. I'd still love to see him against Shogun at LHW though.


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Gotta give him props for calling Silva out even though he probably knows he'd get smashed.


----------



## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

I would love to see Silva's reaction to the Diaz karate kick from 5 miles out.

Could be an exciting fight, Diaz will bring it and never take a step back. If it goes to the ground, who knows what will happen.


----------



## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Based on this "article" Nick is still high.


----------



## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

So calling Anderson Silva out is what's poppin on the streets right now apparently.


----------



## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Purgetheweak said:


> I'd pay to watch Diaz get brain damage...


I was going to quote you & then simply post "Same." but then I realized Diaz obviously already has brain damage.

This fight would be like Leben or Griffin all over again.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

It would be like both of those but far more satisfying.


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Why do people keep mentioning Cyborg as if that is some sort of blip on Nicks record?

A) Nick Diaz ended up whooping Cyborg
B) Cyborg has been toe to toe with the likes of Melvin Manhoeuf and has casually out struck Shogun Rua (He is an elite striker)

Diaz vs Silva is my number 1 fantasy fight of all time in any combat sport ever.

I would explode if this fight was announced.

Diaz wins via Stockton slap.


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Whine whine whine....


I love this fight. Does it make sense? Feck no. Does it make my groin tingle? Feck yes.


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

I can't even imagine the pre fight hype for this slobberknocker.

I'd love to see Nick give Anderson the finger and then Anderson taunt Nick back and then go Matrix on his ass. And then for Nick to get back up and stockton slap Andy, and then For Andy to drop Nick again, but then Nick gets back up and returns a few more slaps.

Repeat for five rounds.

My body is ready.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

This fight would not go 5 rounds. I'd be surprised if it made it out of the second.


----------



## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

I'm all for this fight as I have always wanted to see Nick get knocked the **** out. He is a tough SOB but If Silva can finish Leben and Vitor, he can knock out Nick's skinny ass in 3 minutes, especially with how reckless Nick gets.


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I support this fight just to see Diaz get knocked the **** out.


haha exactly, at least diaz would be shut up for a while then. The wannabe thug massacre would be comical.

But diaz doesn't deserve this fight and anderson doesn't deserve another trash talking dick so soon.


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Liddellianenko said:


> haha exactly, at least diaz would be shut up for a while then. The wannabe thug massacre would be comical.
> 
> *But diaz doesn't deserve this fight and anderson doesn't deserve another trash talking dick so soon.*


Some times it's about just making fun fights, y'know. And this is one fun fight.

I doubt Nick would be trash talking Anderson seeing as though he has respect for him. Well pre-fight any way. Nick trashes and taunts everyone inside the cage, as does Anderson.


----------



## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

Oh god I want to see this.
One things for sure, Diaz better keep his hands up


----------



## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Couldn't care less if he deserves the shot or not. I want to see that fight. Badly. I'd be much more excited seeing Diaz fight Silva than Bisping/Boetsch/Weidman etc.


----------



## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Give him sonnen first and Diaz will realized just how far out of his leauge they are.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

DJ Syko said:


> What kind of message would it send to MMA haters/boxing fans that their best fighter is fighting someone who lost their last fight and is in the weight class below.


MMA haters? Nothing.


Boxing fans? Absolutely nothing.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

K R Y said:


> Couldn't care less if he deserves the shot or not. I want to see that fight. Badly. I'd be much more excited seeing Diaz fight Silva than Bisping/Boetsch/Weidman etc.


This seems to be the consensus here.


----------



## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Nick has to be one of the most agressive and fearless fighters I've ever seen. 

That's what I'm thinking his tombstone should read after Andersons done with him.


----------



## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

This fight is stupid because it wouldnt add anything to andersons legacy, the guy is barley a WW he has no buisness at MW

The hype around this fight would be pretty boring since diaz actually respects anderson, he wont talk shit and piss anderson off, the most he will do is show a finger at the weigh in and then andy KOs him in the 1st the next day....talk about a waste of time

Diaz isnt sonnen, he wont do a million funny interviews and talk shit about andy, the build up will be boring until the weigh ins...hes going to look more out of place than okami...


----------



## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

As most people have said, I would love nothing more then for to this fight to take place, but there is little doubt in my mind Anderson would decimate him and force a stoppage within the first two rounds.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

If you don't like Diaz I question your MMA fanhood.

GSP has ducked Anderson fro how long? Yet Nick Diaz wants that fight. He would rather go lose to ANderson than sit and watch Condit run around trying to touch his leg and steal rounds.

Nick Diaz will fight anyone. He comes to fight. And he doesn't really care.

Perhaps you don't like his personality, but I don't see how any MMA "fan" could not like his spirit in there.

It is sad that we are in a day where everyone is quick to say "Diaz would get murdered" "Diaz wants to fight Anderson? Give me a break"

It is like people look down on guys for wanting to fight the best and actually FIGHT. But then applaud guys who never have moved weight and duck fighters. And don't fight but more or less play the game.

As a fan of MMA. And a fan of the essence of fighting/combat sports I admire a guy like Diaz. I don't see how anyone cannot..

Very odd time we are in.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> haha exactly, at least diaz would be shut up for a while then.


That is real odd. I haven't heard anything from Diaz in months. What have you heard out of his mouth?

People love to just make things up. 

He was upset with a decision and dudes on here have to act like little drama queens "oh he won't shut up".

Dude, why don't you shut the **** up. Diaz doesn't even speak 95% of the year. He is the least heard from fighter around.


----------



## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

Diaz would get beaten into submission within the first 10 minutes of the fight. I don't even see why Dana would consider making this fight happen, if in fact this is a legitimate letter.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Wookie said:


> Diaz would get beaten into submission within the first 10 minutes of the fight. I don't even see why Dana would consider making this fight happen, if in fact this is a legitimate letter.


As did CHael last time out. As did Okami. As did Belfort. As did everyone.

So what is the difference?


----------



## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

jonnyg4508 said:


> As did CHael last time out. As did Okami. As did Belfort. As did everyone.
> 
> So what is the difference?


They earned a title shot. Diaz hasn't done anything remotely worth getting shot at the MW title. Maybe Diaz should try winning a fight before talking about fighting Silva.


----------



## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

I'd say the same thing a bunch of others have said, if the UFC gives a WW on a losing streak a title shot at MW, I seriously stop watching. 

Obviously Diaz would like to fight Silva, it would be a huge payday, but it should be equally obvious that is no reason for Silva to want it, or for me to want it. Don't waste my time with sideshow bullshit.


----------



## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> As did CHael last time out. As did Okami. As did Belfort. As did everyone.
> 
> So what is the difference?


Well the difference is that Diaz is a WW coming off a loss. 

I mean I'd watch the fight but IMO Diaz would get wrecked worse than Forrest. His style is absolutely tailor made for Silva & he's way too small.
I admire his balls for wanting the fight, but it makes no sence what so ever.


----------



## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...If Sonnen getting into Silva's head was bad, Diaz would certainly be the next level. How would Anderson react to being bullied by the taunt king? Nick has no fear on the ground, course we all know why and I'm sure Anderson does too. Nick would wanna bang. A sick stand-up war between Diaz & Silva would be crazy! I think Anderson's got more punching power, better headmovement and that unreal timing. I think it would be a good scrap but I can picture Diaz turtled up after being caught by a hard shot and Anderson standing over him getting a poundout win--ala the picture above my post...


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Drogo said:


> They earned a title shot. Diaz hasn't done anything remotely worth getting shot at the MW title. Maybe Diaz should try winning a fight before talking about fighting Silva.


Why were people all for Rashad getting a title shot then? He is coming off a one-sided loss. His last 2 wins were focking Phil Davis and Tito focking Ortiz. And he has never fought at 185.

Diaz has fought at 185 before. Lost his last one by a close decision. 

So tell me how the 2 are so much different?

Anyone have an answer to that? Or do they want to just keep their Nick Diaz hating blinders on?


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Johnny - we get it. You're a Diaz fan. Not everyone is. You admire his spirit. Cool. Other people think he's an idiot because he has the fight IQ of 6 year old. That's cool too.

You know what's also cool? Actually earning a title shot instead of throwing a temper tantrum after your last fight, getting your license suspended for being an idiot, say your retired, and then try to whine your way into a title shot.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Anderson would TKO Diaz in the first round. Any other outcome is absurd.


----------



## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

M.C said:


> There's no way in the world Diaz deserves a fight with Anderson, yet I'd watch the hell out of it.


Yea this sums up my feelings about it as well.


----------



## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Nick Diaz will fight anyone. He comes to fight. And he doesn't really care.
> 
> It is like people look down on guys for wanting to fight the best and actually FIGHT. But then applaud guys who never have moved weight and duck fighters. And don't fight but more or less play the game.
> 
> ...


Nick Diaz ducked Braulio Estima in a BJJ match and ran off, I dont think the "Diaz will fight anyone and anywhere" no longer applies. You know who also fights? Leben and Garcia, doesent mean they deserve a title shot if they call out a champion. You cant really make it in the big time unless you not only win, but also play the game, Nick has done neither. Thats why Nate Diaz is more liked by everyone, Nick Diaz however has just as much haters as fans, cause he does this to himself.

Its easy to admire a guy while he is sitting at home with nothing to do but call out people on his computer because he broke the rules huh? And then him and Cesar Gracie has been blaming everyone as of late, for his misfortune. If you like giant babies who cause themselves and fans a giant problem that prevents him from taking the big fights like a GSP or Anderson Silva, then knock yourself out. If you should respect a Diaz its Nate Diaz, Nick is just a thorn in everyones side. Like others have said, no way does he deserve it, but I would watch it just to see Nick Diaz get destroyed like the overrated bum he is. I thought I was happy when Nick retired because then all the attention would go to his brother Nate who deserves it alot more. Until I realized that he is like any other school yard bully, all talk, but never backs up his word, and pussies out when its time for him to man up. I hate talking about about Nick, even when he is on the sidelines. And I hate how his fans during this time became as crazy as Fedor fans, perhaps moreso.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> As did CHael last time out. As did Okami. As did Belfort. As did everyone.
> 
> So what is the difference?


They were middle weight contenders. So they deserved the fight and whatever happens from there on is up to the fighters. Diaz isnt a middle weight fighter and if he moved up got 2 wins together id be more then content to see him challenge for the belt.




jonnyg4508 said:


> Why were people all for Rashad getting a title shot then? He is coming off a one-sided loss. His last 2 wins were focking Phil Davis and Tito focking Ortiz. And he has never fought at 185.
> 
> Diaz has fought at 185 before. Lost his last one by a close decision.
> 
> ...


Rashad is a LHW and has a much better style against Anderson. Which leads for a fight that could be exciting and maybe even an upset.

Diaz is a WW who has really no way to beat Anderson. He wont knock him out, he wont out decision him, he wont submit him (He wouldnt even be able to take him down if he tried). So there is NOTHING interesting about this matchup except the pre fight hype. And if thats the highlight then obviously the fight shouldn't take place.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

deadmanshand said:


> Johnny - we get it. You're a Diaz fan. Not everyone is. You admire his spirit. Cool. Other people think he's an idiot because he has the fight IQ of 6 year old. That's cool too.
> 
> You know what's also cool? Actually earning a title shot instead of throwing a temper tantrum after your last fight, getting your license suspended for being an idiot, say your retired, and then try to whine your way into a title shot.


I don't ever think I said he has earned it.

But I like how everyone bashes a guy who actually fights and who is WILLING to go fight Anderson and get his ass kicked over fighting guys who try to steal fights.

But then love guys who don't accept a challenge. Don't fight, more like score pts. And who won't fight up in weight.

Just seems backwards to me. I'm not a girl. This is not a soap opera. I'm not going to get my panties in a bunch over a guy's personality. Girls do that. I watch for the fights. And Diaz FIGHTS. Diaz is willing to go get his ass handed to him by ANderson. Yet the P4P great GSP who has reigned the 170 division forever will not. 

Props to Diaz.


----------



## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Why were people all for Rashad getting a title shot then? He is coming off a one-sided loss. His last 2 wins were focking Phil Davis and Tito focking Ortiz. And he has never fought at 185.
> 
> Diaz has fought at 185 before. Lost his last one by a close decision.
> 
> ...


lol i dont understand why you want diaz to get his ass kicked so bad, most MWs dont have a much chance to beat Anderson, but they might get lucky you never know

diaz though has nothing to offer him...this stand up "battle" would last 3 mins...the fight is a one sided beat down, im not going to act like it wouldnt be fun to watch, it would. it would get great buys AND i am a diaz fan, i hope he kicks GSPs ass

but the sad truth is this fight is just too much of a mis match to make, its something elite XC would do


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> They were middle weight contenders. So they deserved the fight and whatever happens from there on is up to the fighters. Diaz isnt a middle weight fighter and if he moved up got 2 wins together id be more then content to see him challenge for the belt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So now it is about weight. So according to you Rashad would deserve it because he is bigger. Yet he has NEVER even been to 185. Where Diaz has. 

Diaz/Anderson would do bigger numbers than Rashad/Anderson I know that for a fact.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I don't ever think I said he has earned it.
> 
> But I like how everyone bashes a guy who actually fights and who is WILLING to go fight Anderson and get his ass kicked over fighting guys who try to steal fights.
> 
> ...


You miss how he ducks fights, has a complete inability to deviate from his typical game plan, complains about wrestlers because he won't learn how to beat them, and complains about people who won't just let him back him up against the fence... sounds like a fighter to me. No. Wait. That sounds like a bitch to me.

Your whole argument is ridiculous. By your logic Michael Dudikoff is more of a fighter than GSP because he called out Royce Gracie. He knows he'll lose but at least he wants to fight.

Do you know why GSP stays at welterweight? Because, unlike the real fighter Nick Diaz, he has a ******* belt to defend.


----------



## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I don't ever think I said he has earned it.
> 
> But I like how everyone bashes a guy who actually fights and who is WILLING to go fight Anderson and get his ass kicked over fighting guys who try to steal fights.
> 
> ...


You do realize MMA is a professional sport right? Their job, which they sign a contract for hundreds of thousands of dollars to do, is to win. Frankie Edgars goal is, and should be, to win the LW belt, not to go challenge Brock Lesnar, or Bob Sapp.

Diaz is welcome to fight how he likes, but he knows exactly what the rules of MMA are, and whats at stake, so it is patently absurd for him to complain about another fighters style. 

You can complain if you want, you're a fan too, you can like whatever style you like, but it's just as absurd to call Diaz 'more' of a fighter than GSP. He a different fighter (most would say dumber), but he sure isn't more of one.


----------



## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> So now it is about weight. So according to you Rashad would deserve it because he is bigger. Yet he has NEVER even been to 185. Where Diaz has.
> 
> Diaz/Anderson would do bigger numbers than Rashad/Anderson I know that for a fact.


its not about weight its about mis-match

rashad and anderson would be cometitive, rashad actually has a style to beat anderson, he could pull it off. while diaz vs anderson is simply a cheap way to get ppv buys and give anderson another Highlight reel KO, its a circus act

lets just have benavidez or mighty mouse fight him too, this fight makes no damn sense, yes its a fun fight, yes diaz has big balls, even if he was a on a 20 fight win streak its still a ridiculous fight


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

ACTAFOOL said:


> lol i dont understand why you want diaz to get his ass kicked so bad, most MWs dont have a much chance to beat Anderson, but they might get lucky you never know
> 
> diaz though has nothing to offer him...this stand up "battle" would last 3 mins...the fight is a one sided beat down, im not going to act like it wouldnt be fun to watch, it would. it would get great buys AND i am a diaz fan, i hope he kicks GSPs ass
> 
> but the sad truth is this fight is just too much of a mis match to make, its something elite XC would do


I'm A Diaz fan. So you ask why I would want to see him get killed?

It isn't that. It is that I admire a guy who knows he is at a strong disadvantage yet still wants tough fights. I admire a guy who doesn't want to see "the natural born killer" play a girly point game with him. 

Diaz isn't afraid to lose. 

Everyone is acting like Dana said yes. I mean he just asked for the fight. I see no harm in that. I see a fighter who wants a fight. Not a contest. 

Diaz could easily stay at 170 win 1 fight and Dana would probably give him GSP because it would sell huge. Yet he says screw that and asks to fight the best fighter of all time at a higher weight.

raise01:


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

ACTAFOOL said:


> its not about weight its about mis-match
> 
> rashad and anderson would be cometitive, rashad actually has a style to beat anderson, he could pull it off. while diaz vs anderson is simply a cheap way to get ppv buys and give anderson another Highlight reel KO, its a circus act
> 
> lets just have benavidez or mighty mouse fight him too, this fight makes no damn sense, yes its a fun fight, yes diaz has big balls, even if he was a on a 20 fight win streak its still a ridiculous fight


That is all opinion.

Who is to say Rashad wouldn't get KO'd like he did vs. Machida?

I would be willing to bet that Diaz would last longer in there than Rashad would. Dead serious on that.


----------



## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Diaz/Anderson would do bigger numbers than Rashad/Anderson I know that for a fact.


It probably would, but that is because a lot of people who don't like Nick would tune in to watch Nick get his ass kicked. Not because they think it will be ultra competitive either.

Props to Nick, for being stupid.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Difference also is Diaz is dead serious.

Rashad sent a girly little tweet about wanting to fight Anderson. Then just backs off it.

Diaz actually wants to fight Anderson at 185. Rashad doesn't truly want to fight Anderson coming down a class.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> That is all opinion.
> 
> Who is to say Rashad wouldn't get KO'd like he did vs. Machida?
> 
> I would be willing to bet that Diaz would last longer in there than Rashad would. Dead serious on that.


Wow.. you are a blind Diaz nuthugger. Diaz would be destroyed faster simply because he's a worse fighter who gets dropped more often than Rashad has against far smaller fighters. The man doesn't know what defense is or footwork for that matter. Rashad could actually wrestle Anderson. What could Diaz do? Taunt him while walking forward and getting punched in the face?

And Diaz/Silva would not outsell Rashad/Anderson. Diaz has not proven to be any kind of draw and his ability to generate hype is severely hampered by his inability to speak properly or show up at interviews and press conferences. Where as Rashad/Anderson would be the reigning MW champion versus the former Light Heavyweight champion and Rashad can give good interviews and talk trash that is intelligible without a pothead interpreter.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

deadmanshand said:


> Wow.. you are a blind Diaz nuthugger. Diaz would be destroyed faster simply because he's a worse fighter who gets dropped more often than Rashad has against far smaller fighters. The man doesn't know what defense is or footwork for that matter. Rashad could actually wrestle Anderson. What could Diaz do? Taunt him while walking forward and getting punched in the face?
> 
> And Diaz/Silva would not outsell Rashad/Anderson. Diaz has not proven to be any kind of draw and his ability to generate hype is severely hampered by his inability to speak properly or show up at interviews and press conferences. Where as Rashad/Anderson would be the reigning MW champion versus the former Light Heavyweight champion and Rashad can give good interviews and talk trash that is intelligible without a pothead interpreter.


You have no clue what you are blabbing about.

Diaz is one of the bigger draws in the UFC. He did good numbers in SF fighting guys with no name.

Diaz has a STRONG following.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

He's had one ******* fight in the UFC! How the **** do you know he's one of the bigger draws? Oh wait. You don't. You just pulled it out of your ******* ass. I'm done arguing with someone who can't even see the computer screen past Diaz's nutsack.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

deadmanshand said:


> He's had one ******* fight in the UFC! How the **** do you know he's one of the bigger draws? Oh wait. You don't. You just pulled it out of your ******* ass. I'm done arguing with someone who can't even see the computer screen past Diaz's nutsack.


Do you not understand that he fought for SF? A smaller company vs. less known fighters? And still did solid numbers? 

He was the biggest draw in SF. Bigger than Reem. Bigger than Fedor. Bigger than Melendez.

Not sure if you are serious or not?

It is documented that he draws well. Why do you think Dana wanted him vs. GSP so bad? Becuase DIAZ has a strong following. 

Not sure how you can tell me that I am pulling shit out of my ass?

Perhaps you should read once in a while. You seem uninformed.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

And you could be right in that Rashad may last longer.

We all know Diaz is coming forward.

Depends if Rashad plays the girly Condit game or not. If he tries to survive like a Leities he might very well last longer than Diaz.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Do you not understand that he fought for SF? A smaller company vs. less known fighters? And still did solid numbers?
> 
> He was the biggest draw in SF. Bigger than Reem. Bigger than Fedor. Bigger than Melendez.
> 
> ...


Actually the numbers will shut you the **** up. They prove that you are talking out of your ass. So good day. 

Nick Diaz view rates (All Strikeforce Are non-PPV)

Strikeforce: Shamrock vs. Diaz 364,000
Strikeforce: Lawler vs. Shields 275,000
Strikeforce: Miami 517,000
Strikeforce: Diaz vs. Noons II 350,000
Strikeforce: Diaz vs. Cyborg 561,000
Strikeforce: Diaz vs. Daley 528,000
UFC 137: Penn vs. Diaz 280,000 (first ppv event)
UFC 143: Diaz vs. Condit 400,000

Overeem view rates

Strikeforce: Heavy Artillery 308,000
Strikeforce: Overeem vs. Werdum Could not find numbers
UFC 141 800,000

Fedor view rates

Strikeforce: Fedor vs. Rogers 4,040,000
Strikeforce: Fedor vs. Werdum 492,000
Strikeforce / M-1 Global: Fedor vs. Silva 741,000
Strikeforce: Fedor vs. Henderson Could not find numbers


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Doesnt change much

I may have under Estimated fedors numbers. 

But 300 to 500,000 views in strikeforce fighting guys like noons and cyborg are pretty damn good.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Did you miss his PPV numbers though? The ones that prove he isn't a big draw? His fight against BJ Penn - one of the most marketable fighters the UFC has - only did 213,000 buys.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Tito vs rashad did 310

Yet tito was coming off a win and was still one of the higher sellers out there. That is why the ufc continued to pay him 500,000 per fight when he sucked. 

Ppv numbers arent what they once were.


----------



## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

280k for penn is pretty terrible, but 400k vs condit proves how the UFC can market the hell out of diaz, condit is a worse draw than penn

diaz getting 400k against condit is very impressive, even more so since not many events do 400k buys nowadays, thats a solid draw if thats his new average in ppv buys, if he stopped bitching and didnt "retire" with UFCs hype diaz could bump that up to 600k or even more easily IMO

though rashad has some great buys also...both fights would sell like crazy, the difference is i still dont see how diaz could survie 2 mins with anderson while rashad might be able to wrestle**** anderson and maybe win 1-2 rounds...


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

jonnyg4508 said:


> That is real odd. I haven't heard anything from Diaz in months. What have you heard out of his mouth?
> 
> People love to just make things up.
> 
> ...


Who said anything about recently? Put your own interpretation on my words and get butthurt. With no fight coming up he'd be stupid to talk shit randomly. 

I meant he'd be respectful to his next few opponents, something he never does.

This is some of the choice stuff I've heard him say:

"GSP where u at you m*****f*****"

"Condit was running away like a b****"

"GSP is a little b****"

"Noons is a b****, a paper champion"
.
.
.

but you're right diaz never talks :confused05:.


----------



## WarCraved (Jul 9, 2012)

Thank you xeberus, for the edit! Didn't know how to put that in the thread, my mistake.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> So now it is about weight. So according to you Rashad would deserve it because he is bigger. Yet he has NEVER even been to 185. Where Diaz has.
> 
> Diaz/Anderson would do bigger numbers than Rashad/Anderson I know that for a fact.


Its not only about weight as i pointed out. But good job ignoring the whole post and pointing out 1 thing.

its about how INTERESTING the fight is Style wise and frankly OVERALL. 

Diaz has NOTHING to offer Anderson so there is no need to give him the fight. Rashad is an interesting matchup and isnt out weighed like Diaz will be. So giving Rashad the fight isnt a waste like giving Diaz the fight. Rashad has GREAT wrestling which can be Andersons kryptonite. He can strike, has speed, and would be a good sized 185er. Diaz would put his hands down against Anderson and be knocked out that very moment. 

And yeah quiet frankly when your fighting the BEST p4p fighter in the world then weight is a big deal. GSP is the WW champion and one of the main reasons they have not fought is because of WEIGHT!. Nick Diaz isnt the WW Champion or the Inter champion. Diaz has nothing to justify giving him the fight other then talking trash before the fight.


----------



## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Rashad is also a former UFC champion, coming off a lost to the actual UFC champion, not a glorified #1 contender match. 

Still, I do think anyone changing weight-classes should be given at least one tune-up fight before being given a shot at the champ.


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

I'm not a fan of the Diaz hatred on this board.

Yea, we get it. He whines, he acts childish, he smokes pot and fails drugs tests, he's awkward in front of a camera. Blah, blah, fecking blah. 

Who cares?!

This is the UFC, not fecking Big Brother reality television jesus christ.

Nick Diaz is one of the best boxers in Mixed Martial Arts today. He has outstanding combinations, pressure boxing and wicked body shots. He's been in there with elite strikers and taken them out at their own game.

On top of that he has an elite ground game and can roll with the best of them.

Nick Diaz is an elite well rounded fighter with some of the best striking and the best BJJ in the WW and MW division.

Let's not the hatred cloud judgement, he is a proven elite fighter.

On top of all of those technical skills, he also possesses heart and fighter spirit like no other. He does not stop coming forward. It doesn't matter how hard you hit him (Hi Daley), Nick will get back up, drop his fecking hands and invite you to punch him again, and then proceed to move forward and punch you in the face and ribs.

The dude defines true fighting spirit and a fight between Anderson would be absolutely electric.






WAR Diaz


----------



## Old school fan (Aug 24, 2011)

Would be an entertaining fight imo, but Anderson vs Rashad would be a lot more interesting.


----------



## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> I'm not a fan of the Diaz hatred on this board.
> 
> Yea, we get it. He whines, he acts childish, he smokes pot and fails drugs tests, he's awkward in front of a camera. Blah, blah, fecking blah.
> 
> ...


its cute to see some actually think he has a shot...this fight is getting more interesting...


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Nick Diaz is one of the best boxers in Mixed Martial Arts today. He has outstanding combinations, pressure boxing and wicked body shots. He's been in there with elite strikers and taken them out at their own game.


His head movement and footwork are non-existent. He's not even close to being one of the best boxers in MMA.

He has an effective style but Condit exposed how weak his striking is when you use movement to avoid his pressure boxing.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Cesar Gracie about the situation.


----------



## box (Oct 15, 2006)

deadmanshand said:


> He's had one ******* fight in the UFC! How the **** do you know he's one of the bigger draws? Oh wait. You don't. You just pulled it out of your ******* ass. I'm done arguing with someone who can't even see the computer screen past Diaz's nutsack.


You think Diaz has had one fight in the UFC? :confused02:


----------



## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

box said:


> You think Diaz has had one fight in the UFC? Try 11.


Nick Diaz exploded onto the MMA scene when he entered the UFC as a 20 year old BJJ ace, only to show how dangerous his striking was when he knocked out Robbie Lawler in one of the most entertaining fights ever. 

12 fights box


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Simply put, Diaz has had over 10 fights in the UFC, 2 as a legit main eventer.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

box said:


> You think Diaz has had one fight in the UFC? Try 11.


I think he knows that Diaz has fought in the UFC before.

But they were talking about drawing power.

And to establish an idea of how strong Diaz drawing power is you would use his 2 recent fights in the UFC and not his old ones. Otherwise it would completely taint Nick Diaz average drawing power and give an unrealistic number.


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Rauno said:


> Cesar Gracie about the situation.


Cool! :thumbsup:

Specifically:-


> It’s not about the title, we don’t want a title. If it were to be at 185 we don’t want the title. Nick isn’t trying to be disrespectful to all the great middleweights out there, our camp doesn’t want that. There’s a lot of great middleweights out there that are in line for a title shot. This is about fighting, a superfight.


I'm totally down with that till the rest of the MW contenders sort themselves into an orderly queue.


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

ACTAFOOL said:


> its cute to see some actually think he has a shot...this fight is getting more interesting...


Quick question to you and all of the other Diaz haters who think he stands no chance against Anderson (saying any fighter stands no chance in a fight is ludicrous).

Did you also think BJ Penn was going to wipe the floor with Diaz?

Answer honestly, I'll check your post history and come back to haunt you :thumb02:


----------



## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

I think Diaz vs Anderson is a really interesting fight. I think Nick is a HUGE underdog, but...

Outside of much higher weight classes, I have a hard time seeing anyone finishing Diaz in a dog eat dog fight. He's basically a Nogueira with better boxing and more versatile BJJ, and arguably one of the best chins in MMA.

I don't think it's one sided. I think the longer the fight goes, Nick Diaz would start surprising people because I think he'd actually start whooping Andy's ass for a lil bit, assuming he doesn't get finished.


----------



## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

So, basically what people want to see is any old wrestler Vs Silva as opposed to the greatest MMA boxer ever?

Diaz will bring it. That much is fact. EVERYONE had to edge a stand up fight to the best stand up fighter on the planet. That aside, if ANYONE has a chance at Silva, it's Diaz. I see Diaz finishing Weidman, Belfort, W.Silva. All of them. Besides GSP this is the best fight (and obv I'd prefer to see Diaz Vs Silva instead).

Someone said Condit is a small version of Silva lmao. So, Anderson Silva is known for his little leg kicks yeah? Anderson Silva doesnt throw ANYTHING for a points decision. The dude could snap your leg with his side kicks to the knee. He's looking to hurt you, and hurt you bad. After he beat Maia, he was that pissed off that the fight wasnt exciting that he moved up a weight class and faught one of the biggest scrappers at that weight. Condit wanted a belt and Anderson Silva wants a legacy.

This would be an amazing fight. I think what's underestimated is Diaz' submissions. Silva has the most overrated submissions in MMA. He has faught well off his back once ever, and that was Sonnen 2. He barley managed to get the submission on a guy that got made look like an amature by Jeremy Horn on the ground, so if he truley is that expert at submissions he'd have finished it quickly (not saying he isnt still the greatest of all time). Well all know that Diaz has top tier submissions, so how would Silva cope in receipt of them?

A fight worth making. If anyone has a chance, it's Diaz.


----------



## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Diaz doesn't even have half a chance.


----------



## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

hellholming said:


> Diaz doesn't even have half a chance.


But still has double the chance of anyone that isn't named George or Chael.

Here's the main question.

Would you prefer to see Anderson Silva Vs Chris Weidman over Anderson Silva Vs Nick Diaz?

Diaz fans are dying for this fight now and Diaz haters (I dont mean that in the hipster way) want to see Diaz get knocked out horrible (who is known for knocking people out in UFC?).


----------



## tight (Aug 26, 2007)

This is a fun dream match, but would be a one sided beating IMO. 

Too bad Silva is so old and that fighters fight only 3/4 times a year max. If fighters fought more regularly fun fights like this could happen, but I don't think it's realistic. Maybe if Diaz had beat both Condit and GSP it could happen but not as is.

If Diaz really wants to fight Silva he should move up permanently, I'm sure he would get some top MW fighters right away to prove himself.


----------



## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

tight said:


> This is a fun dream match, but would be a one sided beating IMO.
> 
> Too bad Silva is so old and that fighters fight only 3/4 times a year max. If fighters fought more regularly fun fights like this could happen, but I don't think it's realistic. Maybe if Diaz had beat both Condit and GSP it could happen but not as is.
> 
> If Diaz really wants to fight Silva he should move up permanently, I'm sure he would get some top MW fighters right away to prove himself.


People were saying Lombard should get a shot before his last fight based on everything he did before he joined UFC. Diaz has done more than Lombard both in the UFC and out of it, and really he beats everyone at MW anyways.


----------



## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

funkasaurus said:


> People were saying Lombard should get a shot before his last fight based on everything he did before he joined UFC. Diaz has done more than Lombard both in the UFC and out of it, *and really he beats everyone at MW anyways*.


In that case he shouldn't mind actually fighting someone at MW before getting his title shot, should he?

Most of the Ranked guys are tied up right now (except for Sonnen, who would prison-**** diaz IMO) but I'd like to see him fight someone like Vitor or Stann first.


----------



## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

Sports_Nerd said:


> In that case he shouldn't mind actually fighting someone at MW before getting his title shot, should he?
> 
> Most of the Ranked guys are tied up right now (except for Sonnen, who would prison-**** diaz IMO) but I'd like to see him fight someone like Vitor or Stann first.


That would actually be another amazing fight. I'd probably have it Diaz by submission though.

I wouldnt put him against Stann anyways. Think that's a bit low down. Vitor, Bisping, Franklin is the level I'd put him against.

But to be fair, he doesnt want the title. Diaz just wants to fight Silva. If Silva wants to fight him, and the fans want to see it, I don't see why it shouldnt happen. The only people who dont want to see this fight are people who dont want Diaz to have a chance. As I said, people who like fighting but dont like Diaz want him to get knocked out and Diaz fans obv want the fight. The only other fights that should take presidence to me are GSP and Jones (for Silva)


----------



## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

funkasaurus said:


> That would actually be another amazing fight. I'd probably have it Diaz by submission though.
> 
> *I wouldnt put him against Stann anyways. Think that's a bit low down.* Vitor, Bisping, Franklin is the level I'd put him against.
> 
> But to be fair, he doesnt want the title. Diaz just wants to fight Silva. If Silva wants to fight him, and the fans want to see it, I don't see why it shouldnt happen. The only people who dont want to see this fight are people who dont want Diaz to have a chance. As I said, people who like fighting but dont like Diaz want him to get knocked out and Diaz fans obv want the fight. The only other fights that should take presidence to me are GSP and Jones (for Silva)


Based on what? His win over BJ Penn?

I'm trying not to be a hater here, but I really don't understand what is it about Nick's body of work that makes you rank him in the top 5 MW despite never having fought in that weight-class.


----------



## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

Sports_Nerd said:


> Based on what? His win over BJ Penn?
> 
> I'm trying not to be a hater here, but I really don't understand what is it about Nick's body of work that makes you rank him in the top 5 MW despite never having fought in that weight-class.


The same thing that makes Lombard a MW contender without a UFC fight. The same thing that means GSP should fight Silva even thought he's never faught out of WW. Diaz IS better than the current compititon for the title.


----------



## Midwest Fighter (Jul 29, 2012)

*Really?*

Agree with funkasauras...Nick is good, but top 5 MMA??? Come on....many better fighters out there.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Quick question to you and all of the other Diaz haters who think he stands no chance against Anderson (saying any fighter stands no chance in a fight is ludicrous).
> 
> Did you also think BJ Penn was going to wipe the floor with Diaz?
> 
> Answer honestly, I'll check your post history and come back to haunt you :thumb02:


BJ Penn is not Anderson Silva. BJ's a lightweight who has a horrible record at welterweight who still won the first round against Nick before his cardio completely skipped out on him.

Anderson will be the far larger of the two in the cage, the more powerful of the two in the cage, and the far better striker of the two in the cage. And Anderson has never shown cardio issues.

The simple truth is you would be putting a flat footed boxer with zero head movement against the most accurate, elusive, versatile, and devastating striker in mma. Diaz gets dropped everytime he fights a powerful striker. How many times has Anderson hurt somebody and not finished them?


----------



## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

funkasaurus said:


> So, basically what people want to see is any old wrestler Vs Silva as opposed to the greatest MMA boxer ever?
> 
> Diaz will bring it. That much is fact. EVERYONE had to edge a stand up fight to the best stand up fighter on the planet. That aside, if ANYONE has a chance at Silva, it's Diaz. I see Diaz finishing Weidman, Belfort, W.Silva. All of them. Besides GSP this is the best fight (and obv I'd prefer to see Diaz Vs Silva instead).
> 
> ...


Bold 1: so you have only seen one Condit fight then I assume?

Bold 2: IMO Silva has one of the most underrated grappling games in MMA. The guy is a beast on the ground and I would not be surprized if he subbed Diaz.
Sonnen has obviously improved his sub-defence alot since he got tapped every other fight. And the fact that Silva was most likely injured that whole first fight.
Silva also submitted Travis Lutter & Hendo (he was rocked I know, but still). 

Silvas Blackbelt is legit and he is so much bigger than Diaz, he would probably just manhandle him like a child on the ground.


----------



## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Great fight stylistically, but realistically I am not interested in Anderson Silva fighting 170lbers. If Diaz or any other WW decides to move up to 185lb then fine, but one-off fights like this don't hold enough value for Anderson.


----------



## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

funkasaurus said:


> The same thing that makes Lombard a MW contender without a UFC fight. The same thing that means GSP should fight Silva even thought he's never faught out of WW. Diaz IS better than the current compititon for the title.


A. Lombard was never a contender, just hyped as one.

B. You never actually answered my question.


----------



## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

funkasaurus said:


> Would you prefer to see Anderson Silva Vs Chris Weidman over Anderson Silva Vs Nick Diaz?


yes, I would. Because at least Weidman has a chance of winning, in theory.


----------



## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

I see Diaz lasting about as long as James Irvin should Silva not feel like playing in his web.


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> BJ Penn is not Anderson Silva. BJ's a lightweight who has a horrible record at welterweight who still won the first round against Nick before his cardio completely skipped out on him.
> 
> Anderson will be the far larger of the two in the cage, the more powerful of the two in the cage, and the far better striker of the two in the cage. And Anderson has never shown cardio issues.
> 
> The simple truth is you would be putting a flat footed boxer with zero head movement against the most accurate, elusive, versatile, and devastating striker in mma. Diaz gets dropped everytime he fights a powerful striker. How many times has Anderson hurt somebody and not finished them?


Fantastic way of avoiding the actual question. I assume you picked BJ to smash Diaz then.


----------



## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Anderson has nothing to gain from this. Diaz is a dangerous guy to fight for anyone but people would obviously favor Anderson because he's Anderson Silva and much bigger than Nick. If Anderson is looking for superfights he should look at LHW or GSP. Would I love to see it? Yes.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Fantastic way of avoiding the actual question. I assume you picked BJ to smash Diaz then.


No. I said he should but he'd fade after the first.

Oh and fantastic way of avoiding dealing with the facts.


----------



## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Quick question to you and all of the other Diaz haters who think he stands no chance against Anderson (saying any fighter stands no chance in a fight is ludicrous).
> 
> Did you also think BJ Penn was going to wipe the floor with Diaz?
> 
> Answer honestly, I'll check your post history and come back to haunt you :thumb02:


I thought Diaz would finish BJ.

I don't see how this question is relevant to the discussion.


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> No. I said he should but he'd fade after the first.
> 
> Oh and fantastic way of avoiding dealing with the facts.


Your opinion <> facts. Ok then.

BJ was supposed to beat Diaz because of superior boxing and wrestling skills.

Paul Daley was supposed to smash Diaz because he was the vastly superior striker and had good enough TDD to stop Diaz' desperate take downs.

Noons was supposed to out box Diaz

Andy will completely out class Diaz and knock him out within the first two rounds because he's better every where.

Yadda, yadda, yadda. Why do people evaluate fights and fighters' attributes as if it's from some sort of video game. This fight game isn't so black and white, especially not with guys like Nick Diaz.

Nick takes your "on paper" evaluation and rips it to shreds and throws it back at you in most fights. He's probably one of the toughest, if not the toughest fighter on the planet right now, and when you combine that toughness with his elite technical attributes, you have a very unique fighter.

Yea, he lacks head movement, his footwork can be quite sloppy. You point out weaknesses and ignore the excelling attributes he possesses. The relentless pressure boxing, the 7-8-9-10 punch combinations, the gruelling body shots, the unlimited cardio, the in cage taunting he uses so effectively, the elite BJJ game, the instantaneous recovery time.

I can acknowledge his weaknesses, but you can't seem to give credit to his strengths, which to me indicates that you are nothing more than a blind hater.



Sports_Nerd said:


> I thought Diaz would finish BJ.
> 
> I don't see how this question is relevant to the discussion.


It's relevant to the discussion because most Diaz haters will pick any of his opponents to beat him (providing they don't gas out and Nick gets lucky of course...).

And you don't strike me as a hater any ways. You have problems with this fight being booked because of professional reasons which I can understand.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Your opinion <> facts. Ok then.
> 
> BJ was supposed to beat Diaz because of superior boxing and wrestling skills. *Which is how he won the first round*
> 
> ...


I'm a blind hater because you can't actually contradict what I'm saying is what you mean. Anderson is better than him at everything he is. He has koed better strikers - without being rocked himself - and submitted far better ground fighters than Diaz.

But the biggest problem is one that I have already stated. Diaz plods forward, hands down, and chin up. Anderson will tag him all day. He'll rock him, drop him, and finish him. Diaz has great recovery but Anderson won't let him recover. Anderson has the best killer instinct in the game. Every time he has hurt an opponent he has gone for the kill and he's gotten it. He's done it against tougher fighters than Diaz.

To insinuate that Diaz would be anything other than a squash match proves just how blinded you are by your love of him. All objective analysis points toward Anderson dominating in casual fashion. Like he has done to every other striker he has faced.


----------



## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

nobody can take andys punishment, not even diaz...every "granite" chin has been rocked by andy...diaz will be no different and wont be very hard since he just stands there, he is perfect for andy...i really cant believe any1 thinks he has any chance

i picked diaz to beat daley, i thought he would beat bj, i think BJ has very overrated boxing. i think diaz is elite at WW but im 100% certain he cant hang with anderson....


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

How anyone thinks Diaz stands a slim chance is beyond me. The fight will look EXTREMELY similar to the Anderson-Leben fight. Diaz has horrible striking defense and not the greatest chin. If he plays the hands down/Taunting game with Anderson then he will lose 10 out of 10 times. Anderson will be the biggest guy Diaz has ever fought and will be one of the few fighters that has a longer reach. Diaz will be coming forward and Anderson will be jabbing him with 100% accuracy and Diaz will be getting tkoed within the first 3 minutes. Diaz will have absolutely no shot at trapping Anderson against the fence and throwing the random pitter patter shots. The guy has a ZERO shot at being Anderson. He cant beat him at any aspect of the game. And doesnt even have a punchers chance. 


I now want this fight to be made just so everyone sees the obvious result.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> How anyone thinks Diaz stands a slim chance is beyond me. The fight will look EXTREMELY similar to the Anderson-Leben fight. Diaz has horrible striking defense and not the greatest chin. If he plays the hands down/Taunting game with Anderson then he will lose 10 out of 10 times. Anderson will be the biggest guy Diaz has ever fought and will be one of the few fighters that has a longer reach. Diaz will be coming forward and Anderson will be jabbing him with 100% accuracy and Diaz will be getting tkoed within the first 3 minutes. Diaz will have absolutely no shot at trapping Anderson against the fence and throwing the random pitter patter shots. The guy has a ZERO shot at being Anderson. He cant beat him at any aspect of the game. And doesnt even have a punchers chance.
> 
> 
> I now want this fight to be made just so everyone sees the obvious result.


:hug:

you too funny


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

This entire - "you're retarded if you think this" attitude is ridiculous.

It isn't possible to debate when people are throwing out lines like that.

I'm out.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> :hug:
> 
> you too funny


He has good recovery but he doesnt have a good chin. Diaz gets rocked pretty often.


But nice try. 

Next time dont be a douche if you disagree and respond like a man not a child.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> He has good recovery but he doesnt have a good chin. Diaz gets rocked pretty often.
> 
> 
> But nice try.
> ...


For how many times Diaz lets strikers hit his chin he does not get rocked often. He gets rocked more simply because he has faith in his chin and is ALWAYS coming forward. And obviously not the best defense. 

He gets rocked because he chooses to trade leather with a guy like Paul Daley. Doesn't mean his chin is weak. It means he puts himself in those spots OFTEN without care.

Also, hilarious that you try to use the "be a man: card. Yet you have Kanye West plastered all over your posts. :thumb02:


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> For how many times Diaz lets strikers hit his chin he does not get rocked often. He gets rocked more simply because he has faith in his chin and is ALWAYS coming forward. And obviously not the best defense.
> 
> He gets rocked because he chooses to trade leather with a guy like Paul Daley. Doesn't mean his chin is weak. It means he puts himself in those spots OFTEN without care.
> 
> Also, hilarious that you try to use the "be a man: card. Yet you have Kanye West plastered all over your posts. :thumb02:


He does get rocked pretty often. Diaz tends to play that game when fighters are moving back or are trapped against the fence where they cant get much power Or are tired.
If you think Daley is the only person who has rocked Diaz then your extremely delusional.

What does me having a sig of Kanye have to do with responding like a man??? That is one of the absolute dumbest things i have heard someone mention here. Just further proves that you think like a child. 

Go bug someone else with your increasing font sizes and you funny comments. Im sure someone else wont think your annoying.


----------



## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

I'd love to see that fight. Two of my favorites going at it.

On the feet I give Anderson a serious advantage, but I think Diaz would sub him pretty quick on the ground. 

I just don't see how Diaz would get the fight there.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> This entire - "you're retarded if you think this" attitude is ridiculous.
> 
> It isn't possible to debate when people are throwing out lines like that.
> 
> I'm out.


Translation: "I can't argue with the facts so I'm gonna take my ball and go home."


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> This entire - "you're retarded if you think this" attitude is ridiculous.
> 
> It isn't possible to debate when people are throwing out lines like that.
> 
> I'm out.


I only went back a few pages but who posted that?


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> He does get rocked pretty often. Diaz tends to play that game when fighters are moving back or are trapped against the fence where they cant get much power Or are tired.
> If you think Daley is the only person who has rocked Diaz then your extremely delusional.
> 
> What does me having a sig of Kanye have to do with responding like a man??? That is one of the absolute dumbest things i have heard someone mention here. Just further proves that you think like a child.
> ...


What makes you think I believe Daley is the only one who rocked him? Did I ever say anything to imply that? I used an example. 

So does a guy like GSP have a GREAT chin? Because he hasn't been rocked in years? Or is it just that he doesn't put himself in those spots. And would never try to stand and bang with a guy like Paul Daley? 

Point is, he has taken hundred of shots that would drop your normal welterweight. He has take more power shots than most any welterweights out there. So obviously he will be rocked more times...

Nick has a BEAST of a chin. And damn good recovery. He is always trading punch for punch, always coming forward, has fought some serious power punchers....yet has only been KO/TKO'd 1 time out of 35 fights. When he was an 18 year old boy.

Just my opinion. But I think Diaz has one of the better chins in MMA. And I know the difference between chin and recovery.


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> Translation: "I can't argue with the facts so I'm gonna take my ball and go home."


Again, can you please stop referring to your opinion as fact. Please just stop. Your opinion is not fact. The sooner you learn that the better.

You started off by insulting 21 members on this board by calling them all retards:

http://www.mmaforum.com/strikeforce...-vs-paul-daley-pre-post-fight-discussion.html

That's 21 people who picked Daley to beat Diaz on here, or 21 "retards" as you'd happily label them.

Diaz uses pressure boxing, not simply "walking forwards and just throwing punches" as you describe it. If simply walking forwards and throwing punches was such an effective tool to use, then surely more fighters would have so much success with it like Diaz has, no?

Diaz doesn't just walk forward and throw punches. He cuts off the cage and uses his height and reach to stifle his opponents and force them backwards.

He also doesn't throw just flurries:










Nick uses a variation or a combination of different punches in the above gif. Straights, hooks, uppercuts, level changes... A combination of different strikes.

When was the last time his taunting was effective against A level talent? BJ Penn? It seemed to work pretty effectively in that fight.










"Decent body shots". His body shots are excellent, not decent.

Stop calling people retards for expressing their opinion with thought out reasoning and try and acknowledge that other people have different viewpoints.

Is Nick likely to beat Anderson? No. But I believe he has a much better chance than most other current MW contenders and believe it would make for a thoroughly entertaining fight because of all of the previous reasons I have stated in this thread.

If you disagree with this, that's fine, but don't start presenting your opinion as fact again, thank you.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> What makes you think I believe Daley is the only one who rocked him? Did I ever say anything to imply that? I used an example.
> 
> So does a guy like GSP have a GREAT chin? Because he hasn't been rocked in years? Or is it just that he doesn't put himself in those spots. And would never try to stand and bang with a guy like Paul Daley?
> 
> ...


Because i never used an example of Daley rocking him as him having a bad chin. So you focusing on the daley fight makes it seem like you think Daley is the only person who rocked him. Otherwise there would be no point in bringing that up since it doesnt mean anything.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Because i never used an example of Daley rocking him as him having a bad chin. So you focusing on the daley fight makes it seem like you think Daley is the only person who rocked him. Otherwise there would be no point in bringing that up since it doesnt mean anything.


That is a pretty self centered way of looking at it.

Because you never brought it up I can't use my own example. An example of the last time you could say Diaz was rocked.

But way to avoid any discussion. Nothing means anything unless you brought it up first.

I guess I should have made reference to every time Diaz has been hit hard in his life. Since I only brought up 1 scenario I must think that is the only example of it.

ok...


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> That is a pretty self centered way of looking at it.
> 
> Because you never brought it up I can't use my own example. An example of the last time you could say Diaz was rocked.
> 
> ...


Self Centered... 
What are you even talking about now???


Okay why did you bring up Daley rocking Diaz then??? It doesnt prove that he has a great chin. And i didnt argue that because of the Daley fight he has a bad chin. So whats your point by bringing it up??


Off the top of my head i recall Cyborg,Noons,Aina,Daley,Marius all rocking Diaz. If i recall i think even Sakurai wobbled Diaz a bit and then Diaz clinched and recovered. I dont think Diaz has a bad chin but like my original post stated "Diaz doesnt have the greatest chin" and his fights support that statement. Anderson would have no problem dropping Diaz.

I do think Nick Diaz has some of the best recovery in the sport of MMA. The guy can be wobbled or rocked and after a second or 2 of clinching the guy is back to normal or even more dangerous in some cases because now he is mad. Its incredible.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

His inability to cut off the cage is what made him lose about 4 rounds to Condit, so nice argument bro.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Again, can you please stop referring to your opinion as fact. Please just stop. Your opinion is not fact. The sooner you learn that the better.


Thanks, Dad!



GrappleRetarded said:


> You started off by insulting 21 members on this board by calling them all retards:
> 
> http://www.mmaforum.com/strikeforce...-vs-paul-daley-pre-post-fight-discussion.html
> 
> That's 21 people who picked Daley to beat Diaz on here, or 21 "retards" as you'd happily label them.


I wouldn't say happily. Joyfully could be used. Perhaps jovially. 



GrappleRetarded said:


> Diaz uses pressure boxing, not simply "walking forwards and just throwing punches" as you describe it. If simply walking forwards and throwing punches was such an effective tool to use, then surely more fighters would have so much success with it like Diaz has, no?


It is walking forward throwing punches. That is pressure boxing. I've boxed for 15 years. Pressure boxing is a fancy way of saying walking forward throwing shots without backing up. It's a tactic for dealing with long fighters and in fighters. Counter strikers tend to tee off on pressure boxers.



GrappleRetarded said:


> Diaz doesn't just walk forward and throw punches. He cuts off the cage and uses his height and reach to stifle his opponents and force them backwards.


Do you remember his fight against Condit? What cost him that fight? His inability to cut off the cage you say? 



GrappleRetarded said:


> He also doesn't throw just flurries:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He does not throw combinations in that image. He is throwing a flurry of a large variety of punches but it is still a flurry. None of it has that flow that practiced combos possess. Diaz simply throws a large number of punches without set up. 

A combination is a practiced set of strikes that flows from one to another. A combination is not simply throwing one shot after another.



GrappleRetarded said:


> When was the last time his taunting was effective against A level talent? BJ Penn? It seemed to work pretty effectively in that fight.


What fight were you watching? It didn't do shit in that fight.



GrappleRetarded said:


> "Decent body shots". His body shots are excellent, not decent.


They are decent. Body shots are my favorites. I've seen the best. He is decent at them but he doesn't know to generate proper power with them. He's not very good at generating power with any of his shots but he throws a lot of them.



GrappleRetarded said:


> Stop calling people retards for expressing their opinion with thought out reasoning and try and acknowledge that other people have different viewpoints.


Note that I never did what you accuse me of here. I said that people who thought Daley would beat Diaz were retarded after you made the utterly baseless statement about how everyone - and by insinuation - me thought Daley would win. I disabused you of that notion. Also note that nobody besides you took offense.



GrappleRetarded said:


> Is Nick likely to beat Anderson? No. But I believe he has a much better chance than most other current MW contenders and believe it would make for a thoroughly entertaining fight because of all of the previous reasons I have stated in this thread.
> 
> If you disagree with this, that's fine, but don't start presenting your opinion as fact again, thank you.


My facts actually are facts. Sorry. You think he'd put up a good fight but all the evidence from both fighters says that you are wrong. The facts back up my viewpoint on the subject. You might not like that but I don't care.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

deadmanshand said:


> Note that I never did what you accuse me of here. I said that people who thought Daley would beat Diaz were retarded after you made the utterly baseless statement about how everyone - and by insinuation - me thought Daley would win. I disabused you of that notion. Also note that nobody besides you took offense.


I agreed with everything but i have to comment on that part. I picked Diaz to win the fight but i have to say that Daley was extremely close to winning the fight. Had there been a different ref that night chances are Daley would have won by tko. Id actually say that Daleys knockdown was worse then Diazes was.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> I agreed with everything but i have to comment on that part. I picked Diaz to win the fight but i have to say that Daley was extremely close to winning the fight. Had there been a different ref that night chances are Daley would have won by tko. Id actually say that Daleys knockdown was worse then Diazes was.


I actually agree with you.


----------



## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Again, can you please stop referring to your opinion as fact. Please just stop. Your opinion is not fact. The sooner you learn that the better.
> 
> You started off by insulting 21 members on this board by calling them all retards:
> 
> ...


+ 1 to you sir

OWNED


----------



## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

mmaswe82 said:


> Bold 1: so you have only seen one Condit fight then I assume?
> 
> Bold 2: IMO Silva has one of the most underrated grappling games in MMA. The guy is a beast on the ground and I would not be surprized if he subbed Diaz.
> Sonnen has obviously improved his sub-defence alot since he got tapped every other fight. And the fact that Silva was most likely injured that whole first fight.
> ...


If someone is going to use Condit fighting like Anderson Silva being the downside of Diaz, then you have to actually use Condit's performance. Condit faught nothing like Anderson against Diaz, so how can you reference it?

Where have you seen this amazing grappling game? He's never shown in when put into those positions (I mean on the bottom of course). I know Silva has some submissions, and in Sonnen 2 he showed some great bottom grappling to stifle Chael, but we all know his submissions or grappling have NOTHING to do with his legacy. Anderson Silva excells in striking and his weak point is being put on his back (but like thats relevent Vs Diaz lmao).

Diaz doesnt have great ground control so Anderson could probably get up regardless. He could get caught in a sub along the way. Diaz is an insane submissionist.



Sports_Nerd said:


> A. Lombard was never a contender, just hyped as one.
> 
> B. You never actually answered my question.


If he won 1 fight against a nobody at best, Lombard was a contender.
What was your question?



hellholming said:


> yes, I would. Because at least Weidman has a chance of winning, in theory.


I like seeing fighters get hyped, but what's the deal with this overrating of Weidman? He's only been impressive in the Munoz fight, and Munoz looked worse than Chris looked good. I personally dont put him anywhere near AS, and I think Weidman loses to Sonnen easily.



GrappleRetarded said:


> This entire - "you're retarded if you think this" attitude is ridiculous.
> 
> It isn't possible to debate when people are throwing out lines like that.
> 
> I'm out.


Agreed, HATE when people do that.



SideWays222 said:


> He has good recovery but he doesnt have a good chin. Diaz gets rocked pretty often.
> 
> 
> But nice try.
> ...


This is something a lot of people get wrong to me. Like you, I believe a good chin is not getting rocked easily, and heart and recovery are the other things. I disagree however, because I think Diaz, keeping his hands low and taking those shots, he doesnt really get rocked. He takes a bit shot which will put him back for a second and let him re-adjust, but I dont think he has a weak chin. His chin doesnt come into a relevent light however because he's fighting a guy that could finish a wall.


----------



## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> I agreed with everything but i have to comment on that part. I picked Diaz to win the fight but i have to say that Daley was extremely close to winning the fight. Had there been a different ref that night chances are Daley would have won by tko. Id actually say that Daleys knockdown was worse then Diazes was.


I see it more than Diaz caught a shot and slipped than he got badly hurt. Daley did a great job of using that though and landing some big shots.

Diaz didnt get as clear a hook as Daley, but Semtex collapsed because he was so rocked. If wasnt really the GnP that stopped it, but more how badly hurt he was before he went down. Diaz wasn't really hurt when he was on the floor, which was why big john made that decision.

I wish Daley would just focus and improve. He's an exciting as **** fighter.


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)




----------



## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Soojooko said:


>


:laugh: 

Keep it civil guys, discuss/debate/disagree as much as you want but leave the insults etc out from now on please


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

K R Y said:


> :laugh:
> 
> Keep it civil guys, discuss/debate/disagree as much as you want but leave the insults etc out from now on please


To be fair... there hasn't been any insults far as I can see. Considering how heated it got, some credit is due. It's a damn entertaining thread! :laugh:


----------



## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

funkasaurus said:


> If someone is going to use Condit fighting like Anderson Silva being the downside of Diaz, then you have to actually use Condit's performance. Condit faught nothing like Anderson against Diaz, so how can you reference it?
> 
> Where have you seen this amazing grappling game? He's never shown in when put into those positions (I mean on the bottom of course). I know Silva has some submissions, and in Sonnen 2 he showed some great bottom grappling to stifle Chael, but we all know his submissions or grappling have NOTHING to do with his legacy. Anderson Silva excells in striking and his weak point is being put on his back (but like thats relevent Vs Diaz lmao).
> 
> Diaz doesnt have great ground control so Anderson could probably get up regardless. He could get caught in a sub along the way. Diaz is an insane submissionist.


Ok if you where only talking about that fight then no Condit did not fight anything like Silva. He still did enough to win, which even more makes me think what Silva would do to Nick if Condit was able to win. Since Silva is a deadlier striker than Condit. But ok fair enough Condit wasn't a great example, it wasn't me who used it either, it just bothers me when people only seem to remember a fighters last performance.

Regarding the grappling, well Silva is a Blackbelt under Nog, he has subbed blackbelts himself, as has Diaz. Nothing what so ever points me to believe that Diaz is a better grappler than Silva tho. Who has he subbed? His best sub win is Santos, who was gassed so bad he could barely move.

IMO Travis Lutter is a more impressive sub win than Cyborg.

They are both blackbelts, both of them have mostly excelled as strikers. And I think on paper it would be fair to say that they have somewhat equal grappling.
Then if you put the fact that Silva has considered to fight at HW and Nick could probably make LW, just makes it impossible for me to see Nick subbing Silva. If anything I see it being the other way around, especially since Nick won't be putting Silva on his back.

If what makes you think Nick could sub Silva is the losses on his record then you have to note that he has been subbed twice, last time was 2004 so it's not really relevant to the Anderson of today.


----------



## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Soojooko said:


> To be fair... there hasn't been any insults far as I can see. Considering how heated it got, some credit is due. It's a damn entertaining thread! :laugh:


Yeah you're right. Meant my post to be more of a 'lets not escalate' just in case kinda post as like you said, it's a bit heated. I worded my previous post badly.


----------



## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

mmaswe82 said:


> Ok if you where only talking about that fight then no Condit did not fight anything like Silva. He still did enough to win, which even more makes me think what Silva would do to Nick if Condit was able to win. Since Silva is a deadlier striker than Condit. But ok fair enough Condit wasn't a great example, it wasn't me who used it either, it just bothers me when people only seem to remember a fighters last performance.
> 
> Regarding the grappling, well Silva is a Blackbelt under Nog, he has subbed blackbelts himself, as has Diaz. Nothing what so ever points me to believe that Diaz is a better grappler than Silva tho. Who has he subbed? His best sub win is Santos, who was gassed so bad he could barely move.
> 
> ...


Of course Condit is a great fighter. I'm not a fan of "you're only as good as your last fight", but the reference was that if a mini Silva like Condit can beat Diaz, then what will Silva do? If Silva is planning on backing up with slight leg kicks, then sure, it's a relevent point. I'm pretty sure though that if Silva picks Diaz he's looking for something stunning.

If I'm right, wasn't Travis Lutter gasses too? I just kind of see more from Diaz which shows me he's looking for a submission or something. He uses his hips more. In Silva/Sonnen 2, I'm not even sure that Anderson was looking for it. I remember he slipped the knee up once but mostly he was trying to keep Sonnen still. Diaz would be looking for something to finish it at a time like that to me.

I'm not using Anderson's record or anything as a sub indication. Anderson is in no way susseptable to submissions. I'm not even sure if it's a relevent thing to bring up because who the **** is bringing that fight to the ground? If Anderson gets dropped, Diaz is letting him up, and if Diaz gets dropped, Anderson is finishing it. But still, I can see Diaz pulling something off a lot more than Anderson. I'm not impressed by Silva on his back (don't get me wrong, he's the greatest fighter ever). He doesnt do a whole lot of work off of his back so if it did come to it, I think theres a slight gap that Diaz might be able to take advantage of.

Don't get me wrong, 99/100 this fight finishes in Anderson Silva KO, but if anyones going to out strike him, you HAVE to think it's Diaz.


----------



## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

I must say I admire Nicks courage to fight Anderson, but Anderson would probobly finish Nick in the first round. Anderson is way to fast and accurate.


----------



## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

I don't even know what the announcement is, but it's probably him "coming out of retirement". I have no interest in Diaz, especially him crying after he clearly lost to Condit. I see this turning into a Silva/Diaz debate and I'm guessing Diaz called Silva out. Yeah, right. Diaz would be looking up at the lights within two rounds and I'd enjoy every second of it.


----------



## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

funkasaurus said:


> What was your question?


You rank Diaz as a top 5, if not top 3, MW. What do you base this assessment on?


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Roflcopter said:


> His inability to cut off the cage is what made him lose about 4 rounds to Condit, so nice argument bro.


4 rounds? I recall Nick Diaz clearly winning rounds 1,2 and 5 against Carlos Condit. Rounds 1 and 2 were won through Nick edging the striking exchanges and round 5 was clearly won through Nicks take down and immediate transition to the back. You know, the most significant aspect of the entire fight.

Why concentrate on just one fight and ignore the others? The Carlos Condit fight certainly wasn't one of Nicks greatest, but he has had so much success against other top notch strikers and effectively cut off the cage and ended up beating them silly. BJ Penn for example, the guy who you picked to win the fight.



deadmanshand said:


> Thanks, Dad!


You're welcome sport!



> I wouldn't say happily. Joyfully could be used. Perhaps jovially.


........



> It is walking forward throwing punches. That is pressure boxing. I've boxed for 15 years. Pressure boxing is a fancy way of saying walking forward throwing shots without backing up. It's a tactic for dealing with long fighters and in fighters. Counter strikers tend to tee off on pressure boxers.


I find it extremely hard to believe you've been boxing for 15 years. You don't strike me as actually being much older than 15 years of age. If you have been boxing for as long as you state, then surely after all of those years of experience you have some video footage of you hitting the mitts, the bag, or maybe sparring? Care to post it up.

"Counter fighters tend to tee off on pressure boxers". This is a blank statement. It purely depends on how good the aggressive pressure boxer is and how good the counter fighter is. It depends on which fighter uses their style more effectively. Take Nate Diaz vs Donald Cerrone for example. A clear example of an aggressive pressure boxer imposing his will over Cerrone's best efforts to counter. Joe Calzaghe (the boxing version of Nick Diaz) vs Roy Jones JR is another prime example.

The fact of the matter is you over simplified Nicks pressure boxing and made it sound like any bum could have success with such a technique, when in fact, it's really only Nick and Nate who have managed to successfully implement their techniques at a high level in MMA.

You ridicule Nicks boxing, but what kind of poor boxer gets invited to spar and practise with some of the most elite boxers on the planet (Miguel Cotto)

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ito-ii-how-will-nick-diaz-help-cottos-chances 

Clearly the world class boxing talent out there don't seem to agree with your assessment on Nicks boxing ability.



> Do you remember his fight against Condit? What cost him that fight? His inability to cut off the cage you say?


I remember the fight, and I remember Nick winning rounds 1, 2 and 5. As I said to Roflcopter, what about all of his other fights against established strikers who he murdered?



> He does not throw combinations in that image. He is throwing a flurry of a large variety of punches but it is still a flurry. None of it has that flow that practiced combos possess. Diaz simply throws a large number of punches without set up.
> 
> A combination is a practiced set of strikes that flows from one to another. A combination is not simply throwing one shot after another.


Flurry - "When a boxer throws several punches at a time." A flurry of punches would imply that Nick could just be throwing a series of straight lefts and rights over and over again. Nick quite clearly sets up and uses a combination of different strikes. Look at the gif again. All of the punches quite clearly have have a flow to them and some punches are used to set up and open up other punches.










There's another example



> What fight were you watching? It didn't do shit in that fight.


What fight were you watching? I remember BJ trying to take Nick down and work the grappling as well as trying to box in the first round, mixing things up. In the second round Nick began taunting BJ and it seemed to do a pretty good job of dragging BJ into the striking brawl that Nick wanted. 



> They are decent. Body shots are my favorites. I've seen the best. He is decent at them but he doesn't know to generate proper power with them. He's not very good at generating power with any of his shots but he throws a lot of them.


So for body shots to be excellent, the fighter needs to be a power puncher and cripple his opponent with one shot? No. Nick isn't and never has been a power puncher, he's not your explosive, twitch muscle type of athlete. He's an endurance athlete and uses accumulative striking and well executed body shots to wear down his opponent. Very similar to the boxer Joe Calzaghe. Just because his body shots don't strictly end fights, doesn't make them any less impressive. He uses them extremely well, better than any other MMA fighter I can think of.



> Note that I never did what you accuse me of here. I said that people who thought Daley would beat Diaz were retarded after you made the utterly baseless statement about how everyone - and by insinuation - me thought Daley would win. I disabused you of that notion. Also note that nobody besides you took offense.


Calling people retards for thinking or picking a certain fighter to win is just flat out immature and silly. End of story.



> My facts actually are facts. Sorry. You think he'd put up a good fight but all the evidence from both fighters says that you are wrong. The facts back up my viewpoint on the subject. You might not like that but I don't care.


No, they're not facts. Just your opinion. You seem to have a real hard grasp understanding that not every thing that comes out of your mouth is fact. Most of it is just pure speculation on your behalf.

Saying Nick Diaz would get knocked out within two rounds and any one who thinks other wise doesn't know what they're talking about is just pure ignorance.

I find all of your opinions and view points to be ridiculously ignorant to tell you the truth. You can't accept that other people have differing opinions, and that's a serious problem.



> Christ BJ is an idiot. How the hell do you gas after 1 god damned round? Especially a round you easily won?





> Except Diaz hardly landed any in the first round. So how does that make him gassed at the start of the second?
> 
> What a crap fight.


Your posts, post BJ/Diaz fight.

.........


----------



## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> It's relevant to the discussion because most Diaz haters will pick any of his opponents to beat him (providing they don't gas out and Nick gets lucky of course...).
> 
> And you don't strike me as a hater any ways. You have problems with this fight being booked because of professional reasons which I can understand.


I dislike Nick Diaz intensely, but I try not to let that cloud my judgement regarding his abilities. So I guess you're right, I don't qualify as a "Hater."


----------



## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

Sports_Nerd said:


> You rank Diaz as a top 5, if not top 3, MW. What do you base this assessment on?


He's obviously not on the ranks but I consider him to be better than everyone except Silva.


----------



## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

funkasaurus said:


> This is something a lot of people get wrong to me. Like you, I believe a good chin is not getting rocked easily, and heart and recovery are the other things. I disagree however, because I think Diaz, keeping his hands low and taking those shots, he doesnt really get rocked. He takes a bit shot which will put him back for a second and let him re-adjust, but I dont think he has a weak chin. His chin doesnt come into a relevent light however because he's fighting a guy that could finish a wall.


Very nicely put. And seeing as you understand this, I'm having trouble understanding why you're sticking to your guns on this.

Diaz allows himself to get hit, Anderson hits harder, faster, and more accurately than anyone Nick has ever faced by a country mile.


----------



## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

GrappleRetarded knows his stuff.


----------



## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

Sports_Nerd said:


> Very nicely put. And seeing as you understand this, I'm having trouble understanding why you're sticking to your guns on this.
> 
> Diaz allows himself to get hit, Anderson hits harder, faster, and more accurately than anyone Nick has ever faced by a country mile.


You must have misunderstood me, I see the fight ending but Anderson KO in the first or second. I'm just saying that if anyone has any sort of chance to stand up with him, it's Nick.


----------



## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

funkasaurus said:


> He's obviously not on the ranks but I consider him to be better than everyone except Silva.


I get that. What I don't understand is why. 

He has incredible strengths, he also has obvious weaknesses. He has great recovery at 170, but does allow himself to get hit.

Some of these guys at 185 hit A LOT harder. If someone Like Stann or Leben catches him, are you sure he'll be able to walk through that? Because I'm not.


----------



## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I can't believe this thread is going on this strong. Maybe the fight should be made, but at like 180 so that like Diaz said, no title is on the line. It would be like when AS took those fights at 205 to help fill the title contender void.


----------



## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

Sports_Nerd said:


> I get that. What I don't understand is why.
> 
> He has incredible strengths, he also has obvious weaknesses. He has great recovery at 170, but does allow himself to get hit.
> 
> Some of these guys at 185 hit A LOT harder. If someone Like Stann or Leben catches him, are you sure he'll be able to walk through that? Because I'm not.


No one has really been able to stand up against him. Sure we cam say that Cyborg was hammering him with leg kicks or that BJ Penn looked stronger in the opener, but they gassed for a reason. It wasn't by chance that they couldn't continue fighting and got finished. Nick's pressure, pushing them back, leaving them on the cage. It all comes into play. I'm sure if Chris Leben had a clean full force smack at Anderson Silva he might be put in trouble aswell. If Diaz could take the best of Paul Daley without being badly hurt, I think he will be able to easily outstrike and finish Chris Leben.

Who are the top names at MW?

Chris Weidman:- I'm not sold. I think he has several weaknesses, and his strengths would be quickly nullified against Nick. I don't know about his submission game, but I don't take Serra's word for it. If he goes managed to get Nick on the ground, I think the submission thread alone would make him want to stand up, and he doesnt have the Chael Sonnen GnP to keep a guy scared.

Chael Sonnen:- Speaking of him, he has what I'd consider as "alright" sub defence. No doubt in anyones mind that Diaz goes on his back, but with his constant sub attacks, I don't see Sonnen walking out with the UD.

Michael Bisping:- Easy win. Bisping goes against the cage and gets battered.

Hector Lombard:- Admittly know nothing about him besides his last fight. On that performance alone? Pretty sure we all know the answer.

Fact is, MW is a dry division. Diaz has taken big shots and kept walking forward. He doesnt reply on his strength so nothing about his game is effected. The only thing I can imagine that will change is that his opponents struggle with the pace that little bit more. I'm not sure about natural weight classes or anything though. I'm just considering Diaz as a standard WW moving up to MW if it isn't too difficult to keep the weight.


----------



## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

cdtcpl said:


> I can't believe this thread is going on this strong. Maybe the fight should be made, but at like 180 so that like Diaz said, no title is on the line. It would be like when AS took those fights at 205 to help fill the title contender void.


Agreed. If they fight at a catchweight, it also gives AS some farmiliarity if the fight with GSP ever gets made.


----------



## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

funkasaurus said:


> Of course Condit is a great fighter. I'm not a fan of "you're only as good as your last fight", but the reference was that if a mini Silva like Condit can beat Diaz, then what will Silva do? If Silva is planning on backing up with slight leg kicks, then sure, it's a relevent point. I'm pretty sure though that if Silva picks Diaz he's looking for something stunning.
> 
> If I'm right, wasn't Travis Lutter gasses too? I just kind of see more from Diaz which shows me he's looking for a submission or something. He uses his hips more. In Silva/Sonnen 2, I'm not even sure that Anderson was looking for it. I remember he slipped the knee up once but mostly he was trying to keep Sonnen still. Diaz would be looking for something to finish it at a time like that to me.
> 
> ...


Yes I agree, Diaz tends to be more active in looking for submssion than Silva, I still however don't think he's a more skilled BJJ-artist than Silva. Like you said this is all in theory anyway, I never see a fight between the two happening and if it did, it's 99% certain it would not hit the ground anyway.

I just didn't find it fair to call Silvas grappling overrated, since he really only have been in trouble once on the ground and that was against Sonnen in the first fight, and there was so many controversial factors around that.
If the fight happened on the ground I don't see Diaz having an advantage, especially since Silva is so much bigger than him, Diaz cvould never do what Sonnen did to Silva, because of lack in wrestling and size. And him subbing Anderson from his guard or in a scramble, I just don't see it, but who knows.
Oh and regarding the Lutter fight, you might be right, I really don't remember. Anyway I still think they are pretty even in pure grappling skill, but yes you are right in that Diaz is the more active guy from the guard.


----------



## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

mmaswe82 said:


> Yes I agree, Diaz tends to be more active in looking for submssion than Silva, I still however don't think he's a more skilled BJJ-artist than Silva. Like you said this is all in theory anyway, I never see a fight between the two happening and if it did, it's 99% certain it would not hit the ground anyway.
> 
> I just didn't find it fair to call Silvas grappling overrated, since he really only have been in trouble once on the ground and that was against Sonnen in the first fight, and there was so many controversial factors around that.
> If the fight happened on the ground I don't see Diaz having an advantage, especially since Silva is so much bigger than him, Diaz cvould never do what Sonnen did to Silva, because of lack in wrestling and size. And him subbing Anderson from his guard or in a scramble, I just don't see it, but who knows.
> Oh and regarding the Lutter fight, you might be right, I really don't remember. Anyway I still think they are pretty even in pure grappling skill, but yes you are right in that Diaz is the more active guy from the guard.


Yeah no chance this is hitting the floor.

Silva didn't look great off his back against Lutter or Hendo either. The only time he's looked good to me was in Round 1 of the last fight.

I mean it's hard to see Diaz subbing him in a scramble, but is it easy to see anyone beating Silva at any time in any way? lmao.

This would be a stand up fight. Anyone who knows MMA has to give a big advantage to Silva, but the only man who wouldn't give a fk would be Nick. If you watch his fight with Lawler, Rogan is expecting this BJJ kid rolling on his back like Maia did with Silva. Next thing you know, the kids got his hands in the air asking a complete beast to trade off with him. No one could believe it. Next thing you know, Lawlers out.

Obviously theres a big difference between Lawler and Silva, regardless of how much Diaz has improved. But theres a little part inside of me that hears Rogan's voice saying "This is incredible" and Diaz doing what he does every time he steps in there. Unlikley, but we've seen bigger upsets.


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Lawler is also one of the hardest hitting fighters on the planet. He couldn't rock or wobble Nick and he hit him with some solid, clean shots. Another counter argument to the Nick having a weak chin stuff.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Lawler is also one of the hardest hitting fighters on the planet. He couldn't rock or wobble Nick and he hit him with some solid, clean shots. Another counter argument to the Nick having a weak chin stuff.


And then Nick decided to put his lights out with 1 clean punch.


----------



## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Again, can you please stop referring to your opinion as fact. Please just stop. Your opinion is not fact. The sooner you learn that the better.





GrappleRetarded said:


> 4 rounds? I recall Nick Diaz clearly winning rounds 1,2 and 5 against Carlos Condit. Rounds 1 and 2 were won through Nick edging the striking exchanges and round 5 was clearly won through Nicks take down and immediate transition to the back. You know, the most significant aspect of the entire fight.


Just thought I'd point out the lol.

Also, I'm pretty sure Diaz never "transitioned to the back." He got Condit's back standing up by ducking under a punch, and dragged him to the ground (essentially pulling guarrd from behind.)

IMO the sweep cancels out the takedown, and the actual G&P at the end of the round cancels out the ineffective submission attempts. The question is whether a minute of dominant ground position trumps four minutes of stand up that were slightly in favor of Condit.


----------



## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

funkasaurus said:


> Agreed. If they fight at a catchweight, it also gives AS some farmiliarity if the fight with GSP ever gets made.


That's the main reason for me to want this fight to happen. It would pretty much force GSP to agree to a superfight.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Sports_Nerd said:


> Just thought I'd point out the lol.
> 
> Also, I'm pretty sure Diaz never "transitioned to the back." He got Condit's back standing up by ducking under a punch, and dragged him to the ground (essentially pulling guarrd from behind.)
> 
> IMO the sweep cancels out the takedown, and the actual G&P at the end of the round cancels out the ineffective submission attempts. The question is whether a minute of dominant ground position trumps four minutes of stand up that were slightly in favor of Condit.


That isn't essentially pulling guard from behind. There was no guard involved. Pulling Guard is going to your back. Nick was behind him and grabbed his back. Simple as that. It isn't even related to pulling guard. 

The sweep cancels the takedown? What sweep? What I saw was Nick realizing the 10 second clap. Not having much because Condit defended well. And losing the position at the tail end of the round because he didn't care if he gave it up...there was 5 seconds left. 

Sweeping involves a guy literally sweeping the other. Not when a guy goes for a sub at the very end with little shot of getting it. And not caring if he ends up on bottom. That isn't what I or anyone calls a sweep. Diaz LET GO of the body triangle to try and pull off a ridiculous submission. Because he actually tries to go for the finish. If Condit had his back he would have rode him out until the bell.

If there was another minute left Condit wouldn't of "swept" him. Diaz basically gave up his position. Condit didn't do anything to "sweep". Diaz simply gave up position at the very end of he fight.


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Sports_Nerd said:


> Just thought I'd point out the lol.
> 
> Also, I'm pretty sure Diaz never "transitioned to the back." He got Condit's back standing up by ducking under a punch, and dragged him to the ground (essentially pulling guarrd from behind.)
> 
> IMO the sweep cancels out the takedown, and the actual G&P at the end of the round cancels out the ineffective submission attempts. The question is whether a minute of dominant ground position trumps four minutes of stand up that were slightly in favor of Condit.


I didn't present my opinion as fact and call other people delusional for not agreeing with it. I said - "I recall". That's how I recalled the fight going down and I have watched it four times now.

He didn't transition to the back on the ground. You're just arguing semantics here. Technically he transitioned to Condits back from a standing position. Just because it wasn't a transition on the ground doesn't make it any less of a transition. What he did was immediately take Carlos Condits back and was dominant from that position. That to me, is much more impressive than narrowly out striking an opponent with feeler leg kicks.

"The question is whether a minute of dominant ground position trumps four minutes of stand up that were slightly in favor of Condit."

I think the answer to that question is quite obvious. The most significant aspect of the entire fight happened in the last minute of round 5.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> 4 rounds? I recall Nick Diaz clearly winning rounds 1,2 and 5 against Carlos Condit. Rounds 1 and 2 were won through Nick edging the striking exchanges and round 5 was clearly won through Nicks take down and immediate transition to the back. You know, the most significant aspect of the entire fight.


Except Nick only one the first of those rounds. He clearly lost the 2nd and do you remember how the fight ended with Diaz being swept and defending a leg lock? Of course not.



GrappleRetarded said:


> Why concentrate on just one fight and ignore the others? The Carlos Condit fight certainly wasn't one of Nicks greatest, but he has had so much success against other top notch strikers and effectively cut off the cage and ended up beating them silly. BJ Penn for example, the guy who you picked to win the fight.


Except I didn't pick BJ to win the fight. I don't know why you keep saying this. And Diaz has never shown the ability to cut off the cage. His footwork is too horrible for him to have any kind of consistent success doing that. The problem is most mma fighters are not used to facing pressure boxing and their instinct is to back straight up. Once their back is against the cage most start to panic because they are not familiar with how to deal with the tactic.




GrappleRetarded said:


> I find it extremely hard to believe you've been boxing for 15 years. You don't strike me as actually being much older than 15 years of age. If you have been boxing for as long as you state, then surely after all of those years of experience you have some video footage of you hitting the mitts, the bag, or maybe sparring? Care to post it up.


And I'm terribly hurt by your disbelief. Lack of belief will make me disappear. Nooooooo! Oh wait... I'm not Santa Claus. I don't care if you believe me. And how many people record themselves sparring or hitting the mitts? Are there people vain enough to do this?

Internet Prophecy: You will use this statement as proof that I am lying about the boxing because anyone who's been doing it for 15 years would have video.



GrappleRetarded said:


> "Counter fighters tend to tee off on pressure boxers". This is a blank statement. It purely depends on how good the aggressive pressure boxer is and how good the counter fighter is. It depends on which fighter uses their style more effectively. Take Nate Diaz vs Donald Cerrone for example. A clear example of an aggressive pressure boxer imposing his will over Cerrone's best efforts to counter. Joe Calzaghe (the boxing version of Nick Diaz) vs Roy Jones JR is another prime example.


I was speaking generally of the style here as anyone who wasn't nitpicking could see. Of course personal skill comes into it. It always does. The Nate Diaz/Cerrone example is not a good one. Cerrone was looking to counter but he is not a counter striker. He's an aggressive range fighter. The boxing example has nothing to do with the conversation here.



GrappleRetarded said:


> The fact of the matter is you over simplified Nicks pressure boxing and made it sound like any bum could have success with such a technique, when in fact, it's really only Nick and Nate who have managed to successfully implement their techniques at a high level in MMA.


I did not oversimplify. I broke the tactic down into it's most basic, concise phrasing as opposed to going into the long winded explanation of it. In it's basic form pressure boxing is "walking forward throwing shots without retreating". There is a lot more to it but that is the basic description of the tactic.



GrappleRetarded said:


> You ridicule Nicks boxing, but what kind of poor boxer gets invited to spar and practise with some of the most elite boxers on the planet (Miguel Cotto)


I didn't ridicule his boxing. I really don't know where you keep pulling this from. I ridiculed his defense and footwork. And they are both awful. They are serious deficiencies in his striking style that keep me from labeling him as a great boxer.



GrappleRetarded said:


> Clearly the world class boxing talent out there don't seem to agree with your assessment on Nicks boxing ability.


This would mean something if I had said that he was a bad boxer but don't let that stop you from making untrue statements about my position or what I have said!



GrappleRetarded said:


> I remember the fight, and I remember Nick winning rounds 1, 2 and 5. As I said to Roflcopter, what about all of his other fights against established strikers who he murdered?


Didn't you already say this up top? And just because you remember him doing something does mean that he did.



GrappleRetarded said:


> Flurry - "When a boxer throws several punches at a time." A flurry of punches would imply that Nick could just be throwing a series of straight lefts and rights over and over again. Nick quite clearly sets up and uses a combination of different strikes. Look at the gif again. All of the punches quite clearly have have a flow to them and some punches are used to set up and open up other punches.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your lack of understanding of the difference between flurries and combinations is disheartening. No he is throwing flurries. In a flurry you can throw a bunch of different strikes. You can throw a limitless cornucopia of strikes but if it doesn't have that flow - that none of Diaz's punches have in that gif - or that set up - that none of his strikes have in that gif - they are not combinations.

GSP throws combos. Anderson throws combos. James Te Huna throws combos. Diaz does not. He is not that kind of boxer. It doesn't make him worse. It makes him a different kind of striker than they are.



GrappleRetarded said:


> What fight were you watching? I remember BJ trying to take Nick down and work the grappling as well as trying to box in the first round, mixing things up. In the second round Nick began taunting BJ and it seemed to do a pretty good job of dragging BJ into the striking brawl that Nick wanted.


He started brawling because he was gassed. It's what he always does when he's gassed.



GrappleRetarded said:


> So for body shots to be excellent, the fighter needs to be a power puncher and cripple his opponent with one shot? No. Nick isn't and never has been a power puncher, he's not your explosive, twitch muscle type of athlete. He's an endurance athlete and uses accumulative striking and well executed body shots to wear down his opponent. Very similar to the boxer Joe Calzaghe. Just because his body shots don't strictly end fights, doesn't make them any less impressive. He uses them extremely well, better than any other MMA fighter I can think of.


Did I say that or did you put those words in my mouth? The second? Damn. It's almost like you're arguing with someone else.

No but power comes from technique. His technique on the body shots is not great. Truthfully his technique is kind of sloppy. His body shots only do damage in the accumulation. It's a game plan with him. And he does use them better than any other mma fighter but just because he's the only man at the dance doesn't make him a great dancer.



GrappleRetarded said:


> Calling people retards for thinking or picking a certain fighter to win is just flat out immature and silly. End of story.


Jesus Christ! Are you still going on about this silly shit? I used a very common phrase and you have harped on about it. No one else took offense. Not even the supposed 21 people I insulted. Why did you?



GrappleRetarded said:


> No, they're not facts. Just your opinion. You seem to have a real hard grasp understanding that not every thing that comes out of your mouth is fact. Most of it is just pure speculation on your behalf.


Opinions backed by all existing evidence are called facts. That's just how the world works.



GrappleRetarded said:


> Saying Nick Diaz would get knocked out within two rounds and any one who thinks other wise doesn't know what they're talking about is just pure ignorance.


I said the first part but not the second. Funny how you just keep putting words in my mouth.



GrappleRetarded said:


> I find all of your opinions and view points to be ridiculously ignorant to tell you the truth. You can't accept that other people have differing opinions, and that's a serious problem.


I'm hurt. Truly. Differing opinions is fine. You started off by stating your opinions like they were facts. I disabused you of that particular illusion by putting the actual facts in front of you. My statements concerning Diaz are not speculation. They are born from watching all of his fights and having an extensive knowledge of fighting. That is not speculation. That is an informed opinion. When the evidence backing up an informed opinion is plain for all to see because of a mountain of evidence supporting it it becomes fact.



GrappleRetarded said:


> Your posts, post BJ/Diaz fight.
> 
> .........


And this point illustrated what exactly? That I was pissed off about the fight? What does that have to do with anything here?

I'm done arguing with you. You're making comments about things I didn't say and nitpicking at things that everybody else understood what I meant. You're trying to take an imaginary moral high ground after repeatedly telling everybody - without evidence on your part - how they have called every other Diaz fight. It's just not worth my time to continue this little exercise in stupidity. Everyone who reads this will make up their own mind as to who was right and I don't give a damn who they decide on.

Good day.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

I can't stop laughing at these guys saying Diaz was swept. 

Do you really think Condit had ANYTHING to do with getting out of that body triangle? Or do you think it had everything to do with Nick giving it up and going for a RIDICULOUS armbar attempt? 

Condit swept him...yea right...

Even funnier is that Nick was defending an IMPRESSIVE Condit leg lock. Yea, Condit was SURE close of landing that hail mary leg lock with 3 seconds left. That sure was in TIGHT!

Haha


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I can't stop laughing at these guys saying Diaz was swept.
> 
> Do you really think Condit had ANYTHING to do with getting out of that body triangle? Or do you think it had everything to do with Nick giving it up and going for a RIDICULOUS armbar attempt?
> 
> ...


You're laughing at the people who are right? Diaz went for an armbar, was swept, and ended defending a leg lock. How do you score that as a judge for anyone besides Condit? Maybe it wouldn't have finished the fight but neither did Diaz's armbar attempt.

I really don't know what you are going on about here.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

deadmanshand said:


> You're laughing at the people who are right? Diaz went for an armbar, was swept, and ended defending a leg lock. How do you score that as a judge for anyone besides Condit? Maybe it wouldn't have finished the fight but neither did Diaz's armbar attempt.
> 
> I really don't know what you are going on about here.


Do you realize how ridiculously diffacult the armbar that Diaz tried was? Do you realize he had a body triangle and gave that up because there was only 10 seconds left in the whole fight?

The ONLY reason Condit ended up on top is because Diaz let go of his body and basically sunk underneith him. Diaz basically swpet Diaz. Diaz didn't care if he ended up on bottom for 5 seconds to end the whole fight. He went for it. Condit didn't sweep anything.

I guess you could call that a leglock attempt. I mean, Pat Barry could grab a guys arm like a Kimura attempt in the final 3 seconds of a fight...but would anyone give him credit for that?

I'm not saying the armbar was close. But Diaz had full control of Condit. If there was a couple more minutes in my opinion he would have rear-naked him. But time ran out. So he gave that up and went for an armbar that had little chance. 

But jumping on a leglock, that wasn't even really a legit attempt, with 3 seconds left...shouldn't earn you points. Neither should Diaz's armbar attempt. What SHOULD earn points is the minute and a half Diaz was in dominant position, threating with legit chokes while on his back. 

My point is. The only reason Condit ended on top was because Nick sunk underneath him because the bell was about to sound.

People score things differently. But I see wrestlers get 1 TD in a round. Be on top for 1 minute, and Goldy and others say "well that TD may have got him the round".

Well getting a TD, having a guys back for a full minute, and threatening to get a rear naked in should defiantly win you the round then. The striking before that was basically a wash in that round.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

So you're arguing what exactly? Of course he got points for the takedown but he accomplished nothing on the ground and ended the fight in a submission. However good or bad you think the attempt was. Scoring criteria calls that a wash.

The sweep nullifies the takedown. The leglock nullifies the armbar attempt.


----------



## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

funkasaurus said:


> No one has really been able to stand up against him. Sure we cam say that Cyborg was hammering him with leg kicks or that BJ Penn looked stronger in the opener, but they gassed for a reason. It wasn't by chance that they couldn't continue fighting and got finished. Nick's pressure, pushing them back, leaving them on the cage. It all comes into play. I'm sure if Chris Leben had a clean full force smack at Anderson Silva he might be put in trouble aswell. If Diaz could take the best of Paul Daley without being badly hurt, I think he will be able to easily outstrike and finish Chris Leben.
> 
> Who are the top names at MW?
> 
> ...


Please provide a list of MW's that Diaz has defeated.

The fact is, until we see him go up against a UFC 185lb'er (read: a LHW who cuts to make MW), any prediction as to how he would do against one is 100% speculation based on zero fact.

Any prediction about how he would do against the best MW on the planet should be taken even less seriously. So...

...Diaz by however he wants... :happy04:

.


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> Except Nick only one the first of those rounds. He clearly lost the 2nd and do you remember how the fight ended with Diaz being swept and defending a leg lock? Of course not.


In your opinion. I saw Nick out strike Condit for rounds 1 and 2 quite clearly and in round 5 immediately take Condits back, which was the most significant chapter of the entire fight. Condit rolling for a leg in the dying seconds of the round doesn't some how surpass Nick instantly taking the back and locking Carlos in a body triangle for over a minute.




> Except I didn't pick BJ to win the fight. I don't know why you keep saying this. And Diaz has never shown the ability to cut off the cage. His footwork is too horrible for him to have any kind of consistent success doing that. The problem is most mma fighters are not used to facing pressure boxing and their instinct is to back straight up. Once their back is against the cage most start to panic because they are not familiar with how to deal with the tactic.


Except you have just completely misquoted me. I was responding to rolfcopter, who picked BJ Penn to win the fight, not you. Re-read the quote you just posted.

Diaz has never shown the ability to cut off the cage? That's why most of his opponents end up with their backs against the cage getting their ribs and faced bruised. Nick doesn't cut them off, they just randomly walk towards the cage and invite Nick to punch them over and over again. That's what's been happening in all of those fights. Now I get it.



> And I'm terribly hurt by your disbelief. Lack of belief will make me disappear. Nooooooo! Oh wait... I'm not Santa Claus. I don't care if you believe me. And how many people record themselves sparring or hitting the mitts? Are there people vain enough to do this?
> 
> Internet Prophecy: You will use this statement as proof that I am lying about the boxing because anyone who's been doing it for 15 years would have video.


Considering you have apparently been boxing for 15 years, 15 years! I figured you must have at least a little video footage of yourself boxing.

Why would any one record themselves hitting the mitts, sparring or using the bag? I don't know, maybe so they can re-watch it and pick up possible holes and deficiency in their game in an attempt to improve as a boxer?

So you claim to have been boxing for 15 years and expect everyone to just agree with you and applaud your vast boxing knowledge without a single shred of evidence. Ok.



> I was speaking generally of the style here as anyone who wasn't nitpicking could see. Of course personal skill comes into it. It always does. The Nate Diaz/Cerrone example is not a good one. Cerrone was looking to counter but he is not a counter striker. He's an aggressive range fighter. The boxing example has nothing to do with the conversation here.
> 
> The boxing conversation has every thing to do with the topic at hand. You said that counter fighters will often pick apart pressure boxers. I gave you an example of the complete opposite in a strictly boxing scenario. It has every place in this conversation.
> 
> I did not oversimplify. I broke the tactic down into it's most basic, concise phrasing as opposed to going into the long winded explanation of it. In it's basic form pressure boxing is "walking forward throwing shots without retreating". There is a lot more to it but that is the basic description of the tactic.


Yes you did. You oversimplified it in an attempt to further discredit and ridicule Nick Diaz' boxing ability. That's been the foundation of your argument this entire conversation, that Nicks boxing sucks ad all he does is walk forwards and throw punches, implying that it takes barely any skill what so ever.



> I didn't ridicule his boxing. I really don't know where you keep pulling this from. I ridiculed his defense and footwork. And they are both awful. They are serious deficiencies in his striking style that keep me from labeling him as a great boxer.


You haven't acknowledged any of his strengths as an MMA boxer and solely emphasised on his weaknesses. If you were trying to assess things logically, you would have evaluated both his strengths and weaknesses, but instead, you focused on the latter and ignored the rest.

Nick is definitely one of the greater boxers in MMA. Other than Anderson Silva of course, I can't think of many, if any other MMA fighters that would be able to out box him in the cage.



> This would mean something if I had said that he was a bad boxer but don't let that stop you from making untrue statements about my position or what I have said!


Again, your entire argument has been basically emphasising Nicks weaknesses as a boxer, you have literally said nothing positive about his ability other than "his body punches are quite decent". 



> Didn't you already say this up top? And just because you remember him doing something does mean that he did.


??????????



> Your lack of understanding of the difference between flurries and combinations is disheartening. No he is throwing flurries. In a flurry you can throw a bunch of different strikes. You can throw a limitless cornucopia of strikes but if it doesn't have that flow - that none of Diaz's punches have in that gif - or that set up - that none of his strikes have in that gif - they are not combinations.
> 
> GSP throws combos. Anderson throws combos. James Te Huna throws combos. Diaz does not. He is not that kind of boxer. It doesn't make him worse. It makes him a different kind of striker than they are.


I don't see how the punches in the above gifs don't have "flow". His punches look to be well executed, set up and flow very well. Then you go on to mention GSP as a combination puncher, when he barely throws any combinations and when he does, it's a superman punch to leg kick 1-2 combination at best. GSP hasn't got a great flow or rhythm to his strikes either. If any thing, he's quite robotic and mechanical when it comes to his boxing.



> He started brawling because he was gassed. It's what he always does when he's gassed.


And he started gassing AFTER Nick started landing some good shots. I think it's much to do with a combination of Nicks taunting/hand dropping and the fact that BJ was exhausted. BJ wasn't going to let some punk drop his hands and mock him in the cage, it made him want to bang. Just scrap.



> Did I say that or did you put those words in my mouth? The second? Damn. It's almost like you're arguing with someone else.
> 
> No but power comes from technique. His technique on the body shots is not great. Truthfully his technique is kind of sloppy. His body shots only do damage in the accumulation. It's a game plan with him. And he does use them better than any other mma fighter but just because he's the only man at the dance doesn't make him a great dancer.


That's a fair enough point.



> Jesus Christ! Are you still going on about this silly shit? I used a very common phrase and you have harped on about it. No one else took offense. Not even the supposed 21 people I insulted. Why did you?


Maybe those members haven't read this yet. I'm not offended. But calling people retarded for thinking certain things and backing it up with reasoning is just immature and drags debates down.



> Opinions backed by all existing evidence are called facts. That's just how the world works.


Agreed, and therefore you have presented no facts.



> I said the first part but not the second. Funny how you just keep putting words in my mouth.


You didn't say it out loud, but it's clearly been implied from the tone of your posts. You called people retards for picking Daley to beat Diaz, god knows what you think of people who may actually think Diaz has a shot.




> I'm hurt. Truly. Differing opinions is fine. You started off by stating your opinions like they were facts. I disabused you of that particular illusion by putting the actual facts in front of you. My statements concerning Diaz are not speculation. They are born from watching all of his fights and having an extensive knowledge of fighting. That is not speculation. That is an informed opinion. When the evidence backing up an informed opinion is plain for all to see because of a mountain of evidence supporting it it becomes fact.


It's your opinion and nothing more. You think because of Diaz' holes in defense and foot work, that the fight will definitely end in the first two rounds. According to you that's a fact. It isn't. In my opinion, whilst Diaz may lack in the departments mentioned above, he makes up for it with his chin, recovery, never quit attitude, pressure boxing, aggressiveness and combinations. That is my opinion from also watching most of Nicks MMA fights. We both have two differing opinions, yours isn't fact, neither is mine.



> And this point illustrated what exactly? That I was pissed off about the fight? What does that have to do with anything here?


It just further illustrates your immaturity. Most fight fans would have applauded both BJ and Diaz at the end of that fight for putting on a good show. Not curse the two participants involved and discredit Nicks win because it was only because BJ gassed in the second.



> I'm done arguing with you. You're making comments about things I didn't say and nitpicking at things that everybody else understood what I meant. You're trying to take an imaginary moral high ground after repeatedly telling everybody - without evidence on your part - how they have called every other Diaz fight. It's just not worth my time to continue this little exercise in stupidity. Everyone who reads this will make up their own mind as to who was right and I don't give a damn who they decide on.
> 
> Good day.


Now who's going to take the ball and go home....?


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Considering you have apparently been boxing for 15 years, 15 years! I figured you must have at least a little video footage of yourself boxing.
> 
> Why would any one record themselves hitting the mitts, sparring or using the bag? I don't know, maybe so they can re-watch it and pick up possible holes and deficiency in their game in an attempt to improve as a boxer?
> 
> So you claim to have been boxing for 15 years and expect everyone to just agree with you and applaud your vast boxing knowledge without a single shred of evidence. Ok.


It's almost like someone predicted this exact response...


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> It's almost like someone predicted this exact response...


Hi. I'm a random dude on the internet who has been boxing for 15 years, therefore you should listen to my educated opinion on boxing. I can't back up any of this statement with a single shred of evidence, but you should definitely believe me. I have been boxing for 15 years.


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

This will be one fun fight, but realistically Nick Diaz doesn't have one chance in hell of wining. I'm sure Silva will fight then entire fight with his hands down, and finish it with only two strikes.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Hi. I'm a random dude on the internet who has been boxing for 15 years, therefore you should listen to my educated opinion on boxing. I can't back up any of this statement with a single shred of evidence, but you should definitely believe me. I have been boxing for 15 years.


And you were complaining about immaturity.

How many people do you know - who train boxing for fun - keep video records of themselves training? Because none of the ones I know do it. Besides I relied on the rationale and knowledge of my comments on boxing to speak for themselves. From the pos reps I have received plenty of people have seen that.


----------



## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> That isn't essentially pulling guard from behind. There was no guard involved. Pulling Guard is going to your back. Nick was behind him and grabbed his back. Simple as that. It isn't even related to pulling guard.


Yeah, I know he didn't move into the guard position, it was a legit takedown, the point is that there was no transition.




> The sweep cancels the takedown? What sweep? What I saw was Nick realizing the 10 second clap. Not having much because Condit defended well. And losing the position at the tail end of the round because he didn't care if he gave it up...there was 5 seconds left.
> 
> Sweeping involves a guy literally sweeping the other. Not when a guy goes for a sub at the very end with little shot of getting it. And not caring if he ends up on bottom. That isn't what I or anyone calls a sweep. Diaz LET GO of the body triangle to try and pull off a ridiculous submission. Because he actually tries to go for the finish. If Condit had his back he would have rode him out until the bell.
> 
> If there was another minute left Condit wouldn't of "swept" him. Diaz basically gave up his position. Condit didn't do anything to "sweep". Diaz simply gave up position at the very end of he fight.


The fact remains that Condit capitalized on Diaz's mistake and gained dominant position, which is exactly how Diaz got his back in the first place. The two acts cancel each other out.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

funkasaurus said:


> I see it more than Diaz caught a shot and slipped than he got badly hurt. Daley did a great job of using that though and landing some big shots.
> 
> Diaz didnt get as clear a hook as Daley, but Semtex collapsed because he was so rocked. If wasnt really the GnP that stopped it, but more how badly hurt he was before he went down. Diaz wasn't really hurt when he was on the floor, which was why big john made that decision.
> 
> I wish Daley would just focus and improve. He's an exciting as **** fighter.


Diaz slipped??

Diaz caught a punch to the face and did a faceplant. He tried to go for a takedown when he got hit but didnt have enough energy to keep his legs from buckling and he literally fell flat. Not a single person would have complained had the fight been stopped there.

Daley was still moving and defending himself while being rocked. And the round was a couple seconds away from ending. The Ref should have waited for Daley to stop defending himself because had he Daley would have made it out of the round.


----------



## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> I think the answer to that question is quite obvious. The most significant aspect of the entire fight happened in the last minute of round 5.


I don't. Nothing happened during that minute, Nick tried to get Condit's neck, Condit didn't give it to him. The softest of Condit's leg kicks did more damage than Nick did during that entire minute.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Sports_Nerd said:


> Yeah, I know he didn't move into the guard position, it was a legit takedown, the point is that there was no transition.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I mean, I guess so.

What exactly did he capitalize on though? There was around 5 seconds left when he ended up on top. 

And what mistake was there? It was Diaz giving up a dominant position and going for a difficult sub because there was 10 seconds left and he was just going for it. How was that a mistake? Diaz didn't care if Condit ended up on top for 5 seconds of the round. That is exactly why he ent for it.

There was no mistake involved. No sweep involved. Diaz gave up position. Something BJJ fighters do all the time. Doesn't mean he was swept.


----------



## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Hi. I'm a random dude on the internet who has been boxing for 15 years, therefore you should listen to my educated opinion on boxing. I can't back up any of this statement with a single shred of evidence, but you should definitely believe me. I have been boxing for 15 years.


Not be a jerk here or take sides but i have 2 buddies that have been doing boxing for 6 years and they dont have any footage of themselves, the only evidence they have is their boxing equipment....just sayin its not impossible^^


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Sports_Nerd said:


> I don't. Nothing happened during that minute, Nick tried to get Condit's neck, Condit didn't give it to him. The softest of Condit's leg kicks did more damage than Nick did during that entire minute.


Controlling the back in a body triangle is seen as one of the most dominant positions in MMA. Not only did Nick control the back for over a minute, he he also gained that advantageous position almost instantly. It was a great counter.

It was the only time in the fight where any one was in significant danger. That was the closest moment to a finish in that entire fight and that counts for some thing. That should count for a lot.

Edit Actafool. Buddies in real life I assume? I'm not prepared to take some random internet persons word for it when he says he's been boxing for 15 years.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Controlling the back in a body triangle is seen as one of the most dominant positions in MMA. Not only did Nick control the back for over a minute, he he also gained that advantageous position almost instantly. It was a great counter.
> 
> *It was the only time in the fight where any one was in significant danger. That was the closest moment to a finish in that entire fight and that counts for some thing. That should count for a lot.*
> 
> Edit Actafool. Buddies in real life I assume? I'm not prepared to take some random internet persons word for it when he says he's been boxing for 15 years.


No... just no..

If he landed some significant damage then it would count for something. Otherwise what he got out of that position is a chance to do something and he couldnt pull it off. Otherwise it doesnt count for much and it shouldnt since it would be just for the possibilities of that position and not for what actually took place. And the fact that you are saying if Condit came closer to finish then that position wouldnt count for as much but since according to you thats the closes the fight came to a finish that it should count for "alot". 


I personally think Condits headkick is the closes the fight came to being finished. If he just threw it a bit harder and landed an inch closer to the sweet spot then he could have gotten a KO.

See how that works??


----------



## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Controlling the back in a body triangle is seen as one of the most dominant positions in MMA. Not only did Nick control the back for over a minute, he he also gained that advantageous position almost instantly. It was a great counter.
> 
> It was the only time in the fight where any one was in significant danger. That was the closest moment to a finish in that entire fight and that counts for some thing. That should count for a lot.
> 
> Edit Actafool. Buddies in real life I assume? I'm not prepared to take some random internet persons word for it when he says he's been boxing for 15 years.


Lol yes in real life...I dont blame you, it is the internet, how many genuine ppl actuallu go online? Im not being sarcastic lol

But you know what? Ive changed my tune on this fight, you see first i thought it was the dumbest idea ever, but look at how much buzz this fight created, its amazing really...and after seeing that diaz doesnt intend to fight for the title, he just wants to fight anderson this gets a lot more interesting

MW is kind of tied up at the moment anyway and anderson wants to do a catch weight with GSP, if the rumors are true he wants it at 178. He could (and should) do a test cut and fight diaz at 178 until the MW division gets a clear #1 contender, its not like AS will use his size as an advantage, this would be a pure striking match, and i forgot that diaz has had success at MW, so at the end of the day this fight wouldnt be that bad if its simply used as a fun filler

I still think Andy ends it in the 1st but the fact that some hardcore MMA fans actually see this fight as test just as tough as any other MW makes this fight not so irrelevant. I now actually want to see it, at catchweight of 178 and once AS knocks diaz out, i will for the first time in my life say "i told you so" when it comes to MMA lol, make it happen dana, you now have my blessing, i know thats all he was waiting for to make this fight happen^^


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> No... just no..
> 
> If he landed some significant damage then it would count for something. Otherwise what he got out of that position is a chance to do something and he couldnt pull it off. Otherwise it doesnt count for much and it shouldnt since it would be just for the possibilities of that position and not for what actually took place. And the fact that you are saying if Condit came closer to finish then that position wouldnt count for as much but since according to you thats the closes the fight came to a finish that it should count for "alot".
> 
> ...


Sorry, but I genuinely don't understand what you mean at the end of the first paragraph:

"And the fact that you are saying if Condit came closer to finish then that position wouldnt count for as much but since according to you thats the closes the fight came to a finish that it should count for "alot". "

Not sure what you mean here. If Condit had took Diaz' back and gained the same position Diaz had, I would be saying the same thing about Condit and instead scoring the round in Condits favour.

I disagree about the head kick seeing as though it barely had any real weight behind it, and immediately after it landed Diaz started scratching his nose. That was actually comical and had me lol'ing at the time. Diaz acted like that head kick felt like some sort of bug bite lol.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Sorry, but I genuinely don't understand what you mean at the end of the first paragraph:
> 
> "And the fact that you are saying if Condit came closer to finish then that position wouldnt count for as much but since according to you thats the closes the fight came to a finish that it should count for "alot". "
> 
> ...


Yeah i wasnt sure how i should word that. You are saying that since Nick Diaz taking Condits back is the closest the fight came to being finished then that should count for alot?? Right???. Well that means if Condit managed to get a full mount or something of the sorts then all of the sudden Diaz taking Condits back doesnt mean as much because it isnt "the closest the fight came to being finished". Which is an incredibly flawed way of scoring a fight.


Well you disagree about the headkick and i disagree that Nick was close to getting a finish when he took the back. I pointed out that if the kick was harder and landed on the sweet spot then he could have gotten the finish. So if we are scoring the fight with your "what ifs" system then we could argue about who came closes to getting the finish all day. We need to base it on what happened and what happened is Diaz didnt do much when he took the back. So he doesnt get more points for the possibilities of the position. Just like Condit doesnt get points for landing a headkick that potentially could finish the fight but didnt have enough power behind it.


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> Yeah i wasnt sure how i should word that. You are saying that since Nick Diaz taking Condits back is the closest the fight came to being finished then that should count for alot?? Right???. Well that means if Condit managed to get a full mount or something of the sorts then all of the sudden Diaz taking Condits back doesnt mean as much because it isnt "the closest the fight came to being finished". Which is an incredibly flawed way of scoring a fight.
> 
> 
> Well you disagree about the headkick and i disagree that Nick was close to getting a finish when he took the back. I pointed out that if the kick was harder and landed on the sweet spot then he could have gotten the finish. So if we are scoring the fight with your "what ifs" system then we could argue about who came closes to getting the finish all day. We need to base it on what happened and what happened is Diaz didnt do much when he took the back. So he doesnt get many points for it.


If Condit had got the mount and dominated that position for over minute then yes, he should have won the round.

When a round is pretty much even in terms of the striking, with no fighter really dominating the exchanges, and then some thing happens like a full mount, or taking the back, then which ever fighter gains that dominant position should win the round, seeing as though that's the most significant thing that happened.

Also, the head kick which Condit landed was in rounds 3 or 4. Both of which rounds Condit clearly won, so I'm not really disputing that.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> If Condit had got the mount and dominated that position for over minute then yes, he should have won the round.
> 
> When a round is pretty much even in terms of the striking, with no fighter really dominating the exchanges, and then some thing happens like a full mount, or taking the back, then which ever fighter gains that dominant position should win the round, seeing as though that's the most significant thing that happened.
> 
> Also, the head kick which Condit landed was in rounds 3 or 4. Both of which rounds Condit clearly won, so I'm not really disputing that.


Im not trying to dispute with you who won which round but instead im disputing your scoring system. Your giving Nick extra points for something he COULD have done but didnt. Even though Nick did get a dominant position he didnt do anything with it. I didnt see Condit being in much danger of the fight being finished and he didnt take any damage while down there. So how can you say that it should count for alot??? And like i mentioned if Condit got a full mount in the same round then all of the sudden Nick Diaz back control counts for less??? that just really makes no sense. You cant score the fight that way. What Nick did should count the same no matter what Condit did earlier in the fight. You cant give him extra points because you believe the fight was closest to being finished there.

When as i told you the headkick could have gotten a finish just as the backmount could have. But neither did...



EDIT.

I have to go to work. Im running late so iv been typing in a hurry. If you dont understand something then message me and il explain my meaning more when i have time haha.

Ok adios people. I gotta go make that money.


----------



## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> Im not trying to dispute with you who won which round but instead im disputing your scoring system. Your giving Nick extra points for something he COULD have done but didnt. Even though Nick did get a dominant position he didnt do anything with it. I didnt see Condit being in much danger of the fight being finished and he didnt take any damage while down there. So how can you say that it should count for alot??? And like i mentioned if Condit got a full mount in the same round then all of the sudden Nick Diaz back control counts for less??? that just really makes no sense. You cant score the fight that way. What Nick did should count the same no matter what Condit did earlier in the fight. You cant give him extra points because you believe the fight was closest to being finished there.
> 
> When as i told you the headkick could have gotten a finish just as the backmount could have. But neither did...


I'm scoring the round based on the fact that the striking exchanges between the two fighters in round 5 were very even, with Condit very slightly edging them. Then Diaz instantly took the back and gained a dominant position for over a minute. I value that transition more significant than the fairly evenly matched striking exchanges earlier in the round.

I don't get what's so hard to understand about that.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

GrappleRetarded said:


> I'm scoring the round based on the fact that the striking exchanges between the two fighters in round 5 were very even, with Condit very slightly edging them. Then Diaz instantly took the back and gained a dominant position for over a minute. I value that transition more significant than the fairly evenly matched striking exchanges earlier in the round.
> 
> I don't get what's so hard to understand about that.


Well i agree that Nick Diaz should get points for the takedown and getting dominant position. However he shouldnt be getting EXTRA points just because its the only dominant position in the round. It shouldnt count any more then had there been 5 different dominant positions in the round.


----------



## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

H33LHooK said:


> Please provide a list of MW's that Diaz has defeated.
> 
> The fact is, until we see him go up against a UFC 185lb'er (read: a LHW who cuts to make MW), any prediction as to how he would do against one is 100% speculation based on zero fact.
> 
> ...


I speculate that Diaz would beat most MWs, just like tyhe majority of this thread speculates that Silva would beat him.



SideWays222 said:


> Diaz slipped??
> 
> Diaz caught a punch to the face and did a faceplant. He tried to go for a takedown when he got hit but didnt have enough energy to keep his legs from buckling and he literally fell flat. Not a single person would have complained had the fight been stopped there.
> 
> Daley was still moving and defending himself while being rocked. And the round was a couple seconds away from ending. The Ref should have waited for Daley to stop defending himself because had he Daley would have made it out of the round.


The punch wasn't clean, so it may or may not have hit. Diaz grabbed Daley's leg and was standing up, so of course we'd complain if it was stopped. He wasnt hurt bad and he proved it, by, you know, stopping his opponent in the same round.

The ref could have stopped it before Diaz even ran over with how out of it Daley was. Frank Mir was stopped for the exact same thing against JDS so why shouldnt Daley have been? The dude couldnt even stand up after the fight.


----------



## H2D (Apr 11, 2011)

I have been waiting to see Diaz v Silva for almost 2 yrs. Love it or hate it the fight will do incredible sales and the UFC loves to make $$.


----------



## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

H2D said:


> I have been waiting to see Diaz v Silva for almost 2 yrs. Love it or hate it the fight will do incredible sales and the UFC loves to make $$.


Other than the sales why have you been looking forward to this fight? Its not going to be competitive. Silva would articulate Nicks face.

Besides, you're not going to see one cent of the sales.


----------



## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

Nick would lose to any top ten MW, if you stick him in the cage with Chael, Munoz, or Weidman, it's going to be a replay of Nate getting tossed around by Rory. If you stick him in with Anderson, it will be a bigger massacre than the Forrest fight.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

funkasaurus said:


> The punch wasn't clean, so it may or may not have hit. Diaz grabbed Daley's leg and was standing up, so of course we'd complain if it was stopped. He wasnt hurt bad and he proved it, by, you know, stopping his opponent in the same round.
> 
> The ref could have stopped it before Diaz even ran over with how out of it Daley was. Frank Mir was stopped for the exact same thing against JDS so why shouldnt Daley have been? The dude couldnt even stand up after the fight.


It may not have hit?? What the hell are you talking about. It made Nick Diaz drop on his face. What he did was drop on his face and his limp arms fell around Daleys leg because he tried to shoot but couldnt. 
He wasnt hurt??? He dropped to his face. The reason he YOU KNOW stopped his opponent is because Nick has great recovery and managed to recover and get the win. But he didnt "stop" Daley, Daley was still active in defending himself and had his arms raised in the air. It just happened the Ref jumped the gun and stopped the fight. Just like a ref could have done when Nick did the faceplant. You must be one hell of a Nick Diaz fan because you are doing some serious nut hugging.


----------



## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

I'm sorry but Nick does not deserve to just fight Anderson as he pleases. It's not like he held a UFC title at WW and can call the shots like Penn did. He is also coming off a loss. Tell me how this warrants a direct title shot against Silva when you have guys like Weidman, Belcher and Boetsch who are all on a winning streak and much more deserving of a shot. 

Why doesn't the UFC set up Diaz/Sonnen if Nick is serious about making a run at the title ?


----------



## MCMAP Wizzard (Feb 5, 2012)

Diaz vs. Silva: battle of the spoilsports. Two pretty low-class dudes would make for some very interesting pre-fight antics I'm sure.


----------



## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

kc1983 said:


> I'm sorry but Nick does not deserve to just fight Anderson as he pleases. It's not like he held a UFC title at WW and can call the shots like Penn did. He is also coming off a loss. Tell me how this warrants a direct title shot against Silva when you have guys like Weidman, Belcher and Boetsch who are all on a winning streak and much more deserving of a shot.
> 
> Why doesn't the UFC set up Diaz/Sonnen if Nick is serious about making a run at the title ?


I would pay to see that I think.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

kc1983 said:


> I'm sorry but Nick does not deserve to just fight Anderson as he pleases. It's not like he held a UFC title at WW and can call the shots like Penn did. He is also coming off a loss. Tell me how this warrants a direct title shot against Silva when you have guys like Weidman, Belcher and Boetsch who are all on a winning streak and much more deserving of a shot.
> 
> Why doesn't the UFC set up Diaz/Sonnen if Nick is serious about making a run at the title ?


Yeah the Diaz/Silva fight would be more acceptable if Nick can gather a few wins at MW. If he cant then atleast we havent wasted another one of Andersons fights.


----------



## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> Yeah the Diaz/Silva fight would be more acceptable if Nick can gather a few wins at MW. If he cant then atleast we havent wasted another one of Andersons fights.


This would be the logical thing to do if diaz actually wanted to fight for the title, but thats pointless, he just wants to fight anderson he doesnt want the title so forget. Make it a catch weight fight at 178....main events are 5 rounds nowadays anyway (not that anderson would need more than 1 round).

While we have this fun fight weidman can destroy someone else to become the clear #1 contender.....


----------



## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> It may not have hit?? What the hell are you talking about. It made Nick Diaz drop on his face. What he did was drop on his face and his limp arms fell around Daleys leg because he tried to shoot but couldnt.
> He wasnt hurt??? He dropped to his face. The reason he YOU KNOW stopped his opponent is because Nick has great recovery and managed to recover and get the win. But he didnt "stop" Daley, Daley was still active in defending himself and had his arms raised in the air. It just happened the Ref jumped the gun and stopped the fight. Just like a ref could have done when Nick did the faceplant. You must be one hell of a Nick Diaz fan because you are doing some serious nut hugging.


I am one hell of a fan, but nuthugging? Let me quote all twenty times I've said he'd get KOed first round by Silva. If you can show me a GIF which shows Diaz' jaw being rocked I'll agree. Watched the fight like three days ago, and what may have happened is that he slipped coming in (has done it multiple times in his career) and then Daley immediatley took top laying in big shots. The referee certainly didnt jump the gun because Daley couldnt stand up after the fight, and he collpased half way through it.

It's irrelevent anyways. If Diaz slips or gets dropped by Silva, he gets finished.



kc1983 said:


> I'm sorry but Nick does not deserve to just fight Anderson as he pleases. It's not like he held a UFC title at WW and can call the shots like Penn did. He is also coming off a loss. Tell me how this warrants a direct title shot against Silva when you have guys like Weidman, Belcher and Boetsch who are all on a winning streak and much more deserving of a shot.


He doesnt want a title shot.


----------



## H2D (Apr 11, 2011)

After reading through this thread I love how I keep seeing phrases like "Diaz losing streak" and "needs to win a fight".... Last I checked Diaz was on a huge win streak in strikeforce then won his first fight back in the UFC before losing a close decision to Condit. One loss is not a streak. I like the Silva match up stylistically. Diaz has a good chin and great submission defense. Why not make it happen.


----------



## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

Lol i cant believe this thread is still going!! I wonder if anyone in the UFC lurkes on forums (besides the UG) and actually make decisions based on some of these reactions hehe


----------



## joey.jupiter (Apr 7, 2010)

you know there is this majority opinion i believe in the MMA community that believes Nick was robbed against Condit. I can see the fight going both ways but i favoured Nick tbh. Having said that he was coming off a 10(?) win streak before he faced Condit including destroyed BJ Penn. Diaz vs Silva is a super fight, a fight anyone would want to see and obviously going to be a competitive fight. how Nick would have to 'earn' his chance to face Silva when the fight in itself is something most people want to see is just absurd at best.


----------



## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

WarCraved said:


> Apparently he wants A. Silva!


Just like everyone else that realizes that their career is going down the pot, and wants a last shot at fame and fortune.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

funkasaurus said:


> Watched the fight like three days ago, and what may have happened is that he slipped coming in (has done it multiple times in his career) and then Daley immediatley took top laying in big shots.


Just watched the fight and you are wrong here. At 1:27 Daley lands a big left hook that Diaz does not see coming and Diaz drops face first to the mat. It was not a slip. He wasn't moving forward when Daley hit him. It was punch landed and then he dropped. For a second Diaz was out.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> Just watched the fight and you are wrong here. At 1:27 Daley lands a big left hook that Diaz does not see coming and Diaz drops face first to the mat. It was not a slip. He wasn't moving forward when Daley hit him. It was punch landed and then he dropped. For a second Diaz was out.


Shows the recovery of Diaz. Watching it live, i was sure Daley got the fight but what did i know.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

deadmanshand said:


> Just watched the fight and you are wrong here. At 1:27 Daley lands a big left hook that Diaz does not see coming and Diaz drops face first to the mat. It was not a slip. He wasn't moving forward when Daley hit him. It was punch landed and then he dropped. For a second Diaz was out.


You shouldnt even dignify his claim with a response. To say Diaz slipped is just baffling. His whole body goes limp for a moment.





Rauno said:


> Shows the recovery of Diaz. Watching it live, i was sure Daley got the fight but what did i know.



Yeah Diaz has some really great recovery.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Rauno said:


> Shows the recovery of Diaz. Watching it live, i was sure Daley got the fight but what did i know.


Oh I'm not arguing that. I was simply rebutting funkasaurus' claim that Diaz slipped instead of dropped.


----------



## Stockton902 (Jul 7, 2012)

*Nick has a very good shot if it gets to the ground in this fight. He is great standing up too.*


----------



## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Stockton902 said:


> *Nick has a very good shot if it gets to the ground in this fight. He is great standing up too.*


He wouldn't get Silva down in a million years. Diaz has awful take downs. He's completely outclassed on the feet as well.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Stockton902 said:


> *Nick has a very good shot if it gets to the ground in this fight. He is great standing up too.*


Nick has good shots??? lol what? 



K R Y said:


> He wouldn't get Silva down in a million years. Diaz has awful take downs. He's completely outclassed on the feet as well.


----------

