# So....



## Fade (Dec 12, 2010)

Let's see Jones vs Davis :sarcastic12:


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Let's see multiple threads about Jones vs. Davis :sarcastic12:


----------



## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

Lets not..


----------



## anderton46 (Apr 23, 2010)

Personally I found Mr Control's fight very good...


----------



## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Davis just isn't that good and never will be, he has still looked the same since his debut.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

guy incognito said:


> Davis just isn't that good and never will be, he has still looked the same since his debut.


When did you become a troll? I didn't get the memo!


----------



## Fade (Dec 12, 2010)

anderton46 said:


> Personally I found Mr Control's fight very good...


It was good and he deserved the win, but its not beating JBJ good.


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

he's definitely still middle of the road material.


----------



## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> When did you become a troll? I didn't get the memo!


It's the truth. he isn't as good as people hoped.


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Yeah, because Rogerio is such a can....


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

guy incognito said:


> It's the truth.


No, it isn't.

Lil Nog is a tough fight for anyone worth his weight in salt. He doesn't lose to fighters who 'aren't that good'. And while I can agree that Davis likely isn't ready for a title shot, I also think it obvious he fought more so with nerves than skill on this night. It was his first main event, against an always game legend of the sport. 

That and I don't see how anyone could deny this man's potential, though you're entitled to your opinion. Whether or not he'll be taking on JBJ tomorrow is one thing, but it's fairly obvious to me that he has all the tools to be a future contender. If the man lacks anything, it's confidence, though hopefully tonight will change that.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Well Nog was almost beaten by Jason Brilz....

Jus' saying.


Though now that you mentioned it, Brilz was ripped of against Marshall and should probably be 4-0 in the UFC right now..>_>


----------



## Fedornumber1! (Jun 18, 2008)

Wow, I thought Davis would of been able to take lil Nog down at ease and his stand up hasnt gotten ANY better since his last fight and Im on of the guys who was all lke "OMG OMG OMG JONES VS DAVIS HE'S THE ONLY ONE"

Boy was I wrong -_-


Don't get me wrong I think he has what it takes to be a star, but not as much as I once thought.


----------



## Fade (Dec 12, 2010)

Fedornumber1! said:


> Wow, I thought Davis would of been able to take lil Nog down at ease and his stand up hasnt gotten ANY better since his last fight and Im on of the guys who was all lke "OMG OMG OMG JONES VS DAVIS HE'S THE ONLY ONE"
> 
> Boy was I wrong -_-
> 
> ...


And the world turns to Machida.


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> No, it isn't.
> 
> Lil Nog is a tough fight for anyone worth his weight in salt. He doesn't lose to fighters who 'aren't that good'. And while I can agree that Davis likely isn't ready for a title shot, I also think it obvious he fought more so with nerves than skill on this night. It was his first main event, against an always game legend of the sport.
> 
> That and I don't see how anyone could deny this man's potential, though you're entitled to your opinion. Whether or not he'll be taking on JBJ tomorrow is one thing, but it's fairly obvious to me that he has all the tools to be a future contender. If the man lacks anything, it's confidence, though hopefully tonight will change that.


GOT SOKOUDJOU?

Bader had more success in the wrestling department with Lil Nog and we saw how that went against JBJ. The fact of the matter is, that is what Phil Davis has been utilizing, taking people down and submitting them and he barely scraped by here. 

Some people before this fight were going "Phil Davis is our last hope to beating JBJ" and that simply is not the case. Not even remotely near being anything truthful. 

And I like how you're making excuses with "oh, he fought with nerves...I could tell" That's worse than people saying shogun wasn't 100%


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I'm not making any sort of excuse. It genuinely appeared to me as though he was fighting with nerves. Everything from his facial expressions whilst standing, to his unwillingness to full-on engage with Nog on the ground. It truly did look as though he was fighting with opening night jitters, and I say this as someone who's only 'luke warm' on Davis so far. I've stated he's clearly not ready for a title shot, but that he has the potential to one day fight as a contender. I see no reason for you to be a dick about it.


----------



## Fedornumber1! (Jun 18, 2008)

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> GOT SOKOUDJOU?
> 
> Bader had more success in the wrestling department with Lil Nog and we saw how that went against JBJ. The fact of the matter is, that is what Phil Davis has been utilizing, taking people down and submitting them and he barely scraped by here.
> 
> ...


This! JBJ never even won a d1 tournement in wrestling and he fought for the title already an nerves didn't affect him! Phil Davis has competed in the d1 wrestling, so I would think he was more used to nervous situations like this, so all that is is a pitiful excuse for his performance.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

He didn't lose...

Davis is a world class wrestler... I'd think he'd be more comfortable fighting against other wrestlers than world class submission artists with solid TDD. But you're right... mixed martial artists clearly don't ever fight with nerves or anything like that. They're cyborgs and hardly capable of human emotion. Silly me.


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> I'm not making any sort of excuse. It genuinely appeared to me as though he was fighting with nerves. Everything from his facial expressions whilst standing, to his unwillingness to full-on engage with Nog on the ground. It truly did look as though he was fighting with opening night jitters, and I say this as someone who's only 'luke warm' on Davis so far. I've stated he's clearly not ready for a title shot, but that he has the potential to one day fight as a contender. I see no reason for you to be a dick about it.


I had no intention of being a dick? Was I a dick just now? I may be a little frustrated at what I concidered two lame closing fights...but in no way meant to be dickish.

I see what you're saying about the nerves, I just thought he was outclassed on the feet and worried about being hurt by lil nog's striking. Not having nerves due to the big lights on him. I did think that Davis has some good head movement, and was pretty solid at ducking out of the way of strikes.

I'm lukewarm to Davis as well, and a bit tired of hearing people say he was the threat to JBJ, yet machida, evans and rampage would fail. That's a joke and as it stands I don't think Davis could handle top 5.

I haven't been impressed with Lil Nog's UFC venture since Luiz Cane either, the dude is 1 dimensional (like Davis) and is extremely slow, he can't handle the wrestlers so to me he is done. I didn't even see Lil Nog attempt a submission...What's up with that?


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

You jones fans are scared because davis will beat jones at some point. Lil nog is no bum, he is the same guy that made bader look like he was not ready for jones. davis is not bader he is more of an animal. Nobody in mma is a god everybody is beatable, hell the guys we love have lost fedor,silva came close. You can't say anymore that jones will walk through davies , even if your on jones's nuts you gotta take davies seriously now.


----------



## Fedornumber1! (Jun 18, 2008)

marcthegame said:


> You jones fans are scared because davis will beat jones at some point. Lil nog is no bum, he is the same guy that made bader look like he was not ready for jones. davis is not bader he is more of an animal. Nobody in mma is a god everybody is beatable, hell the guys we love have lost fedor,silva came close. You can't say anymore that jones will walk through davies , even if your on jones's nuts you gotta take davies seriously now.


Are you saying that you think Davis would beat Bader? I seriously doubt it, Baders striking would be the key to winning provided he can stuff Phil's td's


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> I had no intention of being a dick? Was I a dick just now? I may be a little frustrated at what I concidered two lame closing fights...but in no way meant to be dickish.
> 
> I see what you're saying about the nerves, I just thought he was outclassed on the feet and worried about being hurt by lil nog's striking. Not having nerves due to the big lights on him. I did think that Davis has some good head movement, and was pretty solid at ducking out of the way of strikes.
> 
> ...


Ha-ha, all good, homie. The Rumble/Hardy fight got me all out of sorts, as well.


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Fedornumber1! said:


> Are you saying that you think Davis would beat Bader? I seriously doubt it, Baders striking would be the key to winning provided he can stuff Phil's td's


Davis will beat bader easily, you gotta watch what you can't see in the octagon. Davis is in the new generation of fighters. Bader is old school, davis is still very raw but if he trains with the right people he could pull off things you see from guys like gsp,silva,etc. I'm saying he will beat jones to piss people off. In reality jones is unbeatable however davis has the best chance.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Davis vs. Bader would actually appear to be the next logical move.


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Davis vs. Bader would actually appear to be the next logical move.


agreed :thumb02:


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Davis vs. Bader would actually appear to be the next logical move.


wrong, the ufc does no go by logic, bader stock has drop since he lost, Davis is on the rise. Logically Davis vs a top 5 contender (page,machida,randy). Its beyond words how the hell matt hamill is fighting rampage.


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> wrong, the ufc does no go by logic, bader stock has drop since he lost, Davis is on the rise. Logically Davis vs a top 5 contender (page,machida,randy). Its beyond words how the hell matt hamill is fighting rampage.


Davis/Griffin or Davis/Bonnar?


----------



## Fedornumber1! (Jun 18, 2008)

marcthegame said:


> Davis will beat bader easily, you gotta watch what you can't see in the octagon. Davis is in the new generation of fighters. Bader is old school, davis is still very raw but if he trains with the right people he could pull off things you see from guys like gsp,silva,etc. I'm saying he will beat jones to piss people off. In reality jones is unbeatable however davis has the best chance.


I dont get your logic...how would he beat him so easily? He has barely any stand up skills whatsoever and their wrestling would be a stalemate consequently becoming a stand up battle which we all know bader would be better at.


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> Davis/Griffin or Davis/Bonnar?


Davis vs girffin is nice...bonnar should only be fight cans, he is not good enough to beat anybody good.


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Fedornumber1! said:


> I dont get your logic...how would he beat him so easily? He has barely any stand up skills whatsoever and their wrestling would be a stalemate consequently becoming a stand up battle which we all know bader would be better at.


Davis bigger,stronger,faster...davis is also more explosive and fights outside the box Bader is traditional. Today we seen Davis throw high kicks,flying knee,etc...with more training he has more tools than bader as his ceiling is higher.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Griffin will be tied up with Shogun vs. Griffin II. 

Davis gets Bader. I don't think they'll pull the rush job with Mr. Wonderful.


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

Davis is not even close to Bones after watching him tonight. He showed no punching ability, his kicks were all pretty off-balance, he struggled HARD to take down somebody who isnt even known for TDD, and he looked pretty gassed in that fight. 

Bones is better than him everywhere and would easily finish him like everbody else.


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> Point is, Jones is an animal and he WILL reign for many years. Nobody currently on the UFC LHW roster will beat him except for maybe Phil Davis.


How quickly things change...

Perhaps there's a lesson here that has to do with Jones hype...maybe?


----------



## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

marcthegame said:


> Bader is old school





marcthegame said:


> Bader





marcthegame said:


> old school


WHAT!?

How does Bader, the guy who has been fighting in the UFC for what, 3 years, Qualify as old school?

Edit: After a quick fact check, Bader has been fighting for 4 years.

By contrast, Jones has been fighting for 3, as has Davis.


----------



## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Davis needs a few more fights against top competitors before he gets a shot at JJ. Right now JJ would pick him apart. JJ is king right now and I don't see Davis being much of a threat @ this point in time. Want to see Davis fight against bader, rampage, machida, shogun, forist or thiago silva. If he beats 2 of those guys then let him fight king JJ.


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> WHAT!?
> 
> How does Bader, the guy who has been fighting in the UFC for what, 3 years, Qualify as old school?
> 
> ...


As in style he fits the old school approach with his boxing and wrestling. Its plain and simple no flash. Whereas guys like Jones,Davis,etc fit the new era of fighters with flash etc. For example you will rarely see high kicks from bader or a spinning back fist. With the new era fighters these moves are a part of there arsenal. Like it takes no effort for them to pull it off. I see nothing special about bader as a fighting ability his approach has been done before.


----------



## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

This thread is retarded. Don't you guys realise that every fight is different. Davis won and everyone is pissed off it wasn't the same story as his other fights... yeah he looked shit but end of the day he won. 

If Rashad got injured again and other events etc, they might have to give Davis the fight, and Davis could well walk in there, hit the ground with Jones and submit him like he has other people. It's MMA folks,

I love how Jones' striking get's praised now... it's not far off Davis' - varied but undeveloped, hoping for Silva-like knockouts, and as soon as the shit hits the fan TAKEDOWN! If Shogun had used a more relaxed strategy like Lil Nog, these two fights would look VERY similar.


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Yah I was pulling for him to upset JBJ. As of right now he needs major work in his striking. Seems very uncomfortable standing with limited strikes. Doesn't move as fluidly as JBJ. Frankly JBJ is bigger and more powerful too. "IF" Phil Davis started training at Blackhouse then I can see him standing a chance in two years. It would be like comparing GSP vs Fitch.


----------



## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Yeah he didn't look comfortable at all on the feet with Lil' Nog, weather it was a respect issue or the fact Nog was landing, he seemed uncomfortable.

I'm guessing he'll fight either Shogun or Machida next, depending on which one gets paired against Forrest.


----------



## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

I wasnt impressed with Davies , and i think Evans and Jones would eat him alive and so would Machida. 


Long way to go before he gets to that level.


----------



## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> How quickly things change...
> 
> Perhaps there's a lesson here that has to do with Jones hype...maybe?


No not really because Davies won , and yet wasnt impressive still beat Lil Nog who is considered by many a top 10 fighter , the guy has had 9 fights and because he didnt finish him or take him down asap doesnt mean is a bad fighter, the fight just showed he has alot of work to do before he gets to the top. 

Jones on the other hand has proven to the doubters he is the real deal , by destroying every single opponent and the champion.


----------



## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Odd how a guy who is the current UFC Light Heavyweight Champion and just destroyed Shogun still has the word "hype" tagged to him. Jones is the real deal, it's time to stop associating the word hype with him.


----------



## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

I must say I was expecting Davis to take lil Nog down at will, so I'm a little disappointed about that.

But Davis still won and at the end of the day, it shows that he is mentally strong, as lil Nog is no can, and I'm sure he spent his entire camp working on TDD.

Davis is not at all ready for Machida, Rampage or Rashad. I even think that Bader is quite a step up.

I hope they bring him up slowly...I think they should give him Hamill after he loses to Rampage.


----------



## ArcherCC (Dec 12, 2010)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Odd how a guy who is the current UFC Light Heavyweight Champion and just destroyed Shogun still has the word "hype" tagged to him. Jones is the real deal, it's time to stop associating the word hype with him.


_hype 1 (hp) Slang
n.
1. Excessive publicity and the ensuing commotion

_

Seeing as Jone's best win is a out of shape Shogun that honestly most if not all of the top 15 to top 20 LHWs would have beaten that night, and yet people are calling for Jones Vs Silva, and claiming he is the next P4P king and similar things, then yes Hype is the correct term for him at this time.


Iin the words of Pastor Richards (GTA: Vice City FTW)

But I digress and Plug 

I was impressed by Phil against Lil'Nog last night, he showed the ability to adapt as the fight wore on (Switching form double to single leg take downs, which is something some wrestlers never do.) He could take a shot as Nog landed a couple really nice punches in the first round. He was able to grapple, and stay in dominate position against a BJJ fighter of Nog's level, and he showed a calmness that not many fighters have when their initial game plan fails.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

***** de Amigo said:


> No not really because Davies won , and yet wasnt impressive still beat Lil Nog who is considered by many a top 10 fighter , the guy has had 9 fights and because he didnt finish him or take him down asap doesnt mean is a bad fighter, the fight just showed he has alot of work to do before he gets to the top.
> 
> Jones on the other hand has proven to the doubters he is the real deal , by destroying every single opponent and the champion.


It's Davis, not Davies.


----------



## Tabares (Mar 27, 2011)

davis looks nothing compared to jones in my opinion


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

I think Davis looked good!

He stood there toe to toe with one the best Boxers the UFC has to offer. He still scored there as well!

Then he quickly adjusted his strategy and he easily won. Took him down almost at will with the single leg and secured the very justified UD. 

He's a great prospect and a fight with Bader would be awesome!

Easy win for Davis there too in my opinion!


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I think we can all concur that Davis has some nasty leg kicks.


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

***** de Amigo said:


> No not really because Davies won , and yet wasnt impressive still beat Lil Nog who is considered by many a top 10 fighter , the guy has had 9 fights and because he didnt finish him or take him down asap doesnt mean is a bad fighter, the fight just showed he has alot of work to do before he gets to the top.
> 
> Jones on the other hand has proven to the doubters he is the real deal , by destroying every single opponent and the champion.


I just think it's kind of funny how so many people were leap frogging Phil Davis above the other top competition at 205 and considering him a threat to JBJ. That's all. And that is why this fight is relevant for discussion in that regard.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> I just think it's kind of funny how so many people were leap frogging Phil Davis above the other top competition at 205 and considering him a threat to JBJ. That's all. And that is why this fight is relevant for discussion in that regard.


That's precisely the path I DON'T want Phil to take. He can and likely will be something special if seasoned properly. Jon Jones, however, is a rarity. I admit that fully. These types come along once in a blue moon. That said, those saying Phil will never be a contender are short-changing the man. He's still relatively new to the sport and doing rather well for someone with his level of experience.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> I just think it's kind of funny how so many people were leap frogging Phil Davis above the other top competition at 205 and considering him a threat to JBJ. That's all. And that is why this fight is relevant for discussion in that regard.


JBJ is not much better then Davis. Striking could be equal.. maybe a small advantage to JBJ here in the Boxing I would say. Wrestling I couldn't tell who would get the better of who personally :confused02: probably just a matter who wants it more.

BJJ might be equal as well here!


----------



## ballers101 (Aug 6, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> JBJ is not much better then Davis. Striking could be equal.. maybe a small advantage to JBJ here in the Boxing I would say. Wrestling I couldn't tell who would get the better of who personally :confused02: probably just a matter who wants it more.


People act as though Davis couldn't takedown Lil Nog so therefore, he sucks at wrestling. First off the whole time when Davis was trying to double leg Lil Nog he was scared of a guillotine choke, that's why he was reluctant when he went for double legs, and it got simple for him when he started to do single legs because Lil Nog couldn't stop it. If people doubt Davis' wrestling, they really don't know how good he can really become.


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

ballers101 said:


> People act as though Davis couldn't takedown Lil Nog so therefore, he sucks at wrestling. First off the whole time when Davis was trying to double leg Lil Nog he was scared of a guillotine choke, that's why he was reluctant when he went for double legs, and it got simple for him when he started to do single legs because Lil Nog couldn't stop it. If people doubt Davis' wrestling, they really don't know how good he can really become.



I agree that he was worried about leaving himself open to a submission on the takedown and didn't commit fully on doubles because of that. However(I would need to rewatch the fight again to be 100% on this) but I think Nog may have sprained his right knee on the takedown from behind in the second. It looked unstable coming out for the third and I believe Nog stuffed every single in the third balancing on his left leg and failed on every one that required him to balance on his right.


----------



## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> JBJ is not much better then Davis. Striking could be equal.. maybe a small advantage to JBJ here in the Boxing I would say. Wrestling I couldn't tell who would get the better of who personally :confused02: probably just a matter who wants it more.
> 
> BJJ might be equal as well here!


Sorry but I think that's terribly wrong. The only place they may be equal is top control. Jones has WAY better striking and his takedown arsenal is far deeper. Davis is a shot wrestler. Last might he went for nothing but doubles and when all of them got stuffed it took him until the next round to change tactics. Jones is far more versatile in almost every facet.

Davis is a new breed fighter, yes, but he's yet to embrace that part of himself. Right now he's sort of a LHW gsp with worse striking and better wrestling credentials. He has the potential to put it all together but it's going to be a while before he can rival Jones.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> Sorry but I think that's terribly wrong. The only place they may be equal is top control. Jones has WAY better striking and his takedown arsenal is far deeper. Davis is a shot wrestler. Last might he went for nothing but doubles and when all of them got stuffed it took him until the next round to change tactics. Jones is far more versatile in almost every facet.
> 
> Davis is a new breed fighter, yes, but he's yet to embrace that part of himself. Right now he's sort of a LHW gsp with worse striking and better wrestling credentials. He has the potential to put it all together but it's going to be a while before he can rival Jones.


I agree with you on the versatile part :thumbsup:

However, I don't see this great striking yet :confused02: Jones leaves himself open so much when he comes forward. Any half decent counter striker would easily exploit that. 

Could Jones beat Lil Nog in a striking battle? I highly doupt that. Davis looked very vulnerable against Lil Nog I agree.. but Jones would as well.

Could Jones throw Davis around? I highly doupt that too! Could he take him down? Probably yes! Could Davis take Jones down, probably yes! 

Who has the better BJJ?? It's impossible to answer right now!

They are not that far away as some people make it out to be.


edit: Who is better from there backs?? How should I know!


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> Sorry but I think that's terribly wrong. The only place they may be equal is top control. Jones has WAY better striking and his takedown arsenal is far deeper. Davis is a shot wrestler. Last might he went for nothing but doubles and when all of them got stuffed it took him until the next round to change tactics. Jones is far more versatile in almost every facet.
> 
> Davis is a new breed fighter, yes, but he's yet to embrace that part of himself. Right now he's sort of a LHW gsp with worse striking and better wrestling credentials. He has the potential to put it all together but it's going to be a while before he can rival Jones.


I'd liken him to a LHW Fitch, only with a future...

Jon Jones = LHW GSP.

Oh, yes, TM... I went there.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> I'd liken him to a LHW Fitch, only with a future...
> 
> Jon Jones = LHW GSP.
> 
> Oh, yes, TM... I went there.


No way!!! What has he done?

people need to put things into persepective ones again..


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Phil Davis completes 50 percent of his take downs

Jon Jones completes 72 percent of his take downs.

The stats speak for them selves. Another point is that Jones has faced mainly solid wrestlers; Bader, Hamill, Vlad etc. And yet his take down percentage is still really high. Davis has faced mainly strikers with average or below average TDD and still has trouble getting take downs.

Jones is the better MMA wrestler and better in pretty much every other aspect of fighting. The closest area Phil matches Jones' with is top control.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Phil Davis completes 50 percent of his take downs
> 
> Jon Jones completes 72 percent of his take downs.
> 
> ...


Where are these stats from? As far as I know Davis has never missed a Takedown attempt before he faced Lil Nog yesterday.:confused02:

edit: one against Gustaffson :thumbsup:

you also can't know who the better BJJ guy is!


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> I agree with you on the versatile part :thumbsup:
> 
> However, I don't see this great striking yet :confused02: Jones leaves himself open so much when he comes forward. Any half decent counter striker would easily exploit that.
> 
> ...


Show me the greco credentials of Davis or the evidence from his fights that he is skilled at it. Bones would dominate him in the clinch. With BJJ I would say they are both probably focusing on different elements of it because their top game strategies are different. 

He would also destroy Nog standing a plodding boxer with average power isn't out striking an explosive and unpredictable striker with a foot of reach advantage and good power.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Where are these stats from? As far as I know Davis has never missed a Takedown attempt before he faced Lil Nog yesterday.:confused02:
> 
> edit: one against Gustaffson :thumbsup:
> 
> you also can't know who the better BJJ guy is!


They're all on the ufc website which I believe uses fight metric to track stats.

He missed a couple of shots against Brian Stann too....

They're BJJ games are unknown really at this point, but i'd say given that Jones is better in every single other area, he's probably superior in that department too.

He's just a much better over all fighter. The performances and stats speak for themselves.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

osmium said:


> Show me the greco credentials of Davis or the evidence from his fights that he is skilled at it. Bones would dominate him in the clinch. With BJJ I would say they are both probably focusing on different elements of it because their top game strategies are different.
> 
> He would also destroy Nog standing a plodding boxer with average power isn't out striking an explosive and unpredictable striker with a foot of reach advantage and good power.


Look up Davis's background!


There is way too much hype around Jones's striking and see it's not worth it arguing against hype for now. He might become a good "great" striker one day as far as today he is not!


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> They're all on the ufc website which I believe uses fight metric to track stats.
> 
> He missed a couple of shots against Brian Stann too....
> 
> ...


Don't get me wrong I would pick him as well in a fight between them, however Jones's striking is nothing to brag about. I really don't know if he is really the overall better fighter. 

Davis looked unstoppable as well so far! So both performances are equal. 

like I said, Jones might have a belt but the gap is not that big right now!


for example.. Davis also would have destroyed Shogun that night! People's opinions would be very high too then.


Also I forgot, Davis credentials in BJJ are much, much better! He actually won a No Gi tournament already. JBJ might be still a white belt.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Don't get me wrong I would pick him as well in a fight between them, however Jones's striking is nothing to brag about. I really don't know if he is really the overall better fighter.
> 
> Davis looked unstoppable as well so far! So both performances are equal.
> 
> like I said, Jones might have a belt but the gap is not that big right now!


Performances are equal? Jones performances have been way better than Davis'. Jones is the only fighter on the planet who can literally throw his opponents around like rag dolls.

His ground and pound is absolutely brutal, much better GNP than Davis.

His striking is better. Jones is just a much more tenacious, viscous fighter. He's better every where and his performances have been way better.

I dont care for credentials, all I care about is what I see in the ring on the night. Ryan Bader had better credentials than Jones in wrestling, so what? He still got owned in that department. Ryan Bader whos wrestling was more effective than Phil Davis' in the nog fight.

All I have to do is watch a few fights from each fighter and it's clear as day who's much better.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Performances are equal? Jones performances have been way better than Davis'. Jones is the only fighter on the planet who can literally throw his opponents around like rag dolls.
> 
> His ground and pound is absolutely brutal, much better GNP than Davis.
> 
> His striking is better. Jones is just a much more tenacious, viscous fighter. He's better every where and his performances have been way better.


Both guys destroyed there opponents so far :confused02: Yes JBJ has better ground and pound, but like I said his BJJ must be far behind. Davis's credentials are much, much better and on a high level already!

So who has the better ground game? HArd to tell!

Striking I don't see the greatness there, not at all!

Ryan Bader is not very good and his MMA Wrestling is far behind the one of Davis.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Jones hasn't fought anybody.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Jones hasn't fought anybody.


He did fought some decent guys but overall this statement is very true :thumbsup:

Davis for example already fougth a better guy then Jones did in his career with Lil Nog the previous day!


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Both guys destroyed there opponents so far :confused02: Yes JBJ has better ground and pound, but like I said his BJJ must be far behind. Davis's credentials are much, much better and on a high level already!
> 
> So who has the better ground game? HArd to tell!
> 
> Striking I don't see the greatness there, not at all!


Phil Davis hasnt come close to destroying his opponents the way Jones has.

Davis doesn't throw his opponents around like toys or drop Hellbows that break orbital bones in the blink of an eye.

I really wanted to see Davis fight Hamill because that will be the first real wrestler he has faced and would give a good indication to how his wrestling compares to Jones.

Jones would absolutely man handle nog in every way possible, Davis went to quite a lack luster decision, thats the difference.

If Phils MMA wrestling is much better than Baders, then why did Bader have more success in the wrestling against lil nog?


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Phil Davis hasnt come close to destroying his opponents the way Jones has.
> 
> Davis doesn't throw his opponents around like toys or drop Hellbows that break orbital bones in the blink of an eye.
> 
> ...


No, but instead he submited them!

Jones did fought better Wrestlers so far thats true, but it's still not an indicate that he would do the same to Phil Davis.

Jones would beat Lil Nog no doupt, but not in the striking wich is my point here.

Bader didn't had more success in the Wrestling!


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

I'm sure Bader was more successful with his take downs than Davis in the Nog fight.

Both of their wrestling looked very similar in the Nog fights, which to me indicates that their MMA wrestling isnt far apart at all.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> I'm sure Bader was more successful with his take downs than Davis in the Nog fight.
> 
> Both of their wrestling looked very similar in the Nog fights, which to me indicates that their MMA wrestling isnt far apart at all.


In the second and thrid round LilNog stopped every takedown attmept from Bader.

we might find out soon, but I am pretty sure it's on another level but impossible for me to argue.

I always said Bader is a can.. in my eyes at least and I am going to pick Tito to beat him :thumbsup:


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> *In the second and thrid round LilNog stopped every takedown attmept from Bader.*
> 
> we might find out soon, but I am pretty sure it's on another level but impossible for me to argue.
> 
> I always said Bader is a can.. in my eyes at least and I am going to pick Tito to beat him :thumbsup:


Sure he landed at least one take down in both rounds 2 and 3.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

lol, like I said, no one paying respect to Lil Nog for putting in some serious hard work on his TDD... it MUST be because Davis is a bum.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Sure he landed at least one take down in both rounds 2 and 3.


still Nog stuffed almost all of them and Bader tried more often then Davis cause he had two rounds to fight for them and not only 1.

Also you can't overlook how easily he single-leg takedowned Nog last night. Bader wouldn't even think so far I guess..

also like Canadien said, he definitely worked hard on TDD the last couple of months as well. Wich = Improvement!


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Bader opened the second with a leg kick. Nogueira answered with a body kick. Then Nog landed a left and a low kick in combo. Bader charged in behind a left. Nog tagged Bader with a right and shrugged off his first clinch of the round. *Bader landed a hard right then shot in and got the double leg.* This time Nogueira wasn't stunned nor against the cage. But it quickly went back to the feet when Bader powered out of wrist control and backed away. Bader shot and got stuffed. Nog worked to back him into the cage and then work combinations. *Bader then threw Nogueira around but did little damage.* Nog fired with knees but missed and ate a hard right.

Nog came out firing lefts to start the third. Bader took an eye poke that paused the action. Bader landed a body kick to restart the action. Bader got stuffed on a take down. And another. Nogueira landed some punches but Bader answered with few hard rights. Nog landed some knees to the body and stuffed several more take downs.* Bader did get him down around 3:00* but Nog was right back up. Nog began to score with combinations. But Bader continued to score with rights. Nogueira seemed to stun Bader but when he went in for the kill, *Bader answered with a hard double leg and held top position for the duration of the round.*

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/9/2...yan-bader-takes-down-antonio-rogerio-nogueira


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Bader opened the second with a leg kick. Nogueira answered with a body kick. Then Nog landed a left and a low kick in combo. Bader charged in behind a left. Nog tagged Bader with a right and shrugged off his first clinch of the round. *Bader landed a hard right then shot in and got the double leg.* This time Nogueira wasn't stunned nor against the cage. But it quickly went back to the feet when Bader powered out of wrist control and backed away. Bader shot and got stuffed. Nog worked to back him into the cage and then work combinations. *Bader then threw Nogueira around but did little damage.* Nog fired with knees but missed and ate a hard right.
> 
> Nog came out firing lefts to start the third. Bader took an eye poke that paused the action. Bader landed a body kick to restart the action. Bader got stuffed on a take down. And another. Nogueira landed some punches but Bader answered with few hard rights. Nog landed some knees to the body and stuffed several more take downs.* Bader did get him down around 3:00* but Nog was right back up. Nog began to score with combinations. But Bader continued to score with rights. Nogueira seemed to stun Bader but when he went in for the kill, *Bader answered with a hard double leg and held top position for the duration of the round.*
> 
> ...


Just watch the fight MC. Lil Nog stuffed almost all of them!


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Just watch the fight MC. Lil Nog stuffed almost all of them!


I did watch the fight and thats the official fight report. Bader landed more take downs than Phil Davis! Nog stuffed most of both of theirs, but Bader got more.

Just trying to say that their MMA wrestling really isnt that far apart.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> I did watch the fight and thats the official fight report. Bader landed more take downs than Phil Davis! Nog stuffed most of both of theirs, but Bader got more.
> 
> Just trying to say that their MMA wrestling really isnt that far apart.


well that means then that Davis top control must be much, much better then Bader'S right?


----------



## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

The fact that Davis' and Jones skills are being compared says a lot about Jones when not taking his size into consideration... cus I think Davis would have trouble with any of the Top 5, but if he were as long as Jones I'd give him the same chance as Jones against any of them, a good chance.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> well that means then that Davis top control must be much, much better then Bader'S right?


No, not really. Apart from his little spurt in the second round where he held nog down and landed knees, he did nothing from the top and didnt control nog that well at all. Same with Bader.

Neither of them are in Jones league.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> No, not really. Apart from his little spurt in the second round where he held nog down and landed knees, he did nothing from the top and didnt control nog that well at all. Same with Bader.
> 
> Neither of them are in Jones league.


It does, because Bader was unable to control him so he had to try to take him down again and again. 

Davis did maybe two takedowns in round 2 and two in round 3. He has better top control then.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> It does, because Bader was unable to control him so he had to try to take him down again and again.
> 
> Davis did maybe two takedowns in round 2 and two in round 3. He has better top control then.


Even so, the difference between the two was only really marginal.

Davis isnt that good, neither is Bader.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Even so, the difference between the two was only really marginal.
> 
> Davis isnt that good, neither is Bader.


Impossible to tell right now until they fought each other.

I am pretty sure already that he is way better. His BJJ should submit Bader.


who would you pick if they met today?


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Impossible to tell right now until they fought each other.
> 
> I am pretty sure already that he is way better. His BJJ should submit Bader.
> 
> ...


I'd pick Davis through a fairly tough fight and decision.


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> Look up Davis's background!


Davis was a Division 1 Folkstyle champion. Bones was a junior college Folkstyle champion and a Greco Roman all american in high school. Greco Roman and Folkstyle are different grappling disciplines.

So again where is this evidence that Davis has greco skills that would prevent him from getting ragdolled. Please show me information about him being very successful at any level in greco roman wrestling or footage from his fights where he displays some superior greco techniques or defense. 

This next part isn't directed at you but a more general venting. 

People need to stop saying shit about the skills these fighters possess like they know something when it isn't based on factual records within that discipline and analytical breakdowns of actions by them you have personally observed measured against the skill level of the people they did it against. 

I am not talking about someone saying they think someone will win or do something in a fight. I am talking about people declaring someone sucks or is great at something and being unable to explain why they believe that is so with facts or a series of examples that support their argument. You don't even have to be right about what you are saying just have a basis for it because you can't have a conversation about things like this with someone who is essentially responding with "because I say so."


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

osmium said:


> *Davis was a Division 1 Folkstyle champion. Bones was a junior college Folkstyle champion and a Greco Roman all american in high school. Greco Roman and Folkstyle are different grappling disciplines.
> 
> So again where is this evidence that Davis has greco skills that would prevent him from getting ragdolled. Please show me information about him being very successful at any level in greco roman wrestling or footage from his fights where he displays some superior greco techniques or defense. *
> 
> ...


I never said he has any or that he could defend in the clinch! I also don't know if Jones could prevent Davis from getting him down.

Fact is, that both are excellent Wrestlers and that is all! 

IF you want to tel me that Jones is so much better, well I disagree. I have no arguments right now because they didn't fought each other and Jones has the belt.

But what I can say is, that Davis already fought better competition with Lil Nog last night! And he did extremely well and handled it like a future champ


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> I never said he has any or that he could defend in the clinch! I also don't know if Jones could prevent Davis from getting him down.
> 
> Fact is, that both are excellent Wrestlers and that is all!
> 
> ...


You said you highly doubted Bones could throw him around. I am saying that what we know about both of them as far as upper body grappling goes could only lead you to believe the opposite. 

I wouldn't say winning a fight that was mostly a stalemate based off of a couple takedowns and 20 seconds of GNP in another round was handling it extremely well. That is basically what I expected though I thought it would be a very tough fight and matchup skillwise for Phil going in. Good win against a tough guy but it isn't like he ragdolled Nog to the ground and crushed his skull with elbows.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

osmium said:


> You said you highly doubted Bones could throw him around. I am saying that what we know about both of them as far as upper body grappling goes could only lead you to believe the opposite.
> 
> I wouldn't say winning a fight that was mostly a stalemate based off of a couple takedowns and 20 seconds of GNP in another round was handling it extremely well. That is basically what I expected though I thought it would be a very tough fight and matchup skillwise for Phil going in. Good win against a tough guy but it isn't like he ragdolled Nog to the ground and crushed his skull with elbows.


Ne he did not, because Phil Davis is not JBJ! Phil Davis normally goes for submission instead of GnP. Two complete different fighter you like to compare here my friend. Don't do this, it makes zero sense!

It was a very tough matchup for Davis because of Nog's BJJ game not because of Nog's TDD. 

And yes, I am sure Phil Davis can get Jones down. Probably with a douple of single and probably not in the clinch I agree. But on top Davis has a significant advanatge as well as he does in the BJJ aspect.

sriking for me is still almost even.. little advantage to Jones here because of his hands. But other then that there is really nothing wich should make me believe, that Jones is better then Davis already!

Both just received a different hype train thats all!


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Screw this fight, Ryan Bader vs Phil Davis would be a huge treat for me.


----------



## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

This thread is all kinds of ridiculous...

Davis' performance was pretty good I thought. He fought a very experienced fighter with decent stand up and slick BJJ, who had clearly been drilling his TDD to fook. Rogan referred to Mark Munoz working with him hard on this specific thing. I was impressed with how Davis didn't get discouraged, and had the mental capacity to change it up and find something that worked. Was also very impressed with his leg kicks. He was tentative trying to strike in full guard, but that was fair enough, given Lil Nog's BJJ. I also don't think he gassed at all, which somebody said.

Also, no one seems to have mentioned what injuries Davis referred to in his post fight interview, Really sounded like he barely made it through to the fight. How much effect did these multiple injuries have ?

Davis is still very much being shaped right now as an MMA fighter. Whilst being a big fan of his, I think all the talk of Davis v Jones, is silly for right now., but so is writing Davis off in the future, because of his latest fight.

Jones' striking is far more dangerous and whilst not amazingly technical yet, is much better than Davis'. I simply can't see the argument against this.

Also, it's daft to declare that Davis would've beaten Shogun. Shogun would most likely have walked through Davis stand up, and really tested his chin. The same danger just doesn't exist compared to Jones. There's also no guarantee Davis would've been able t land shots as big as the ones that Jones got in on Shogun in round 1. Forever more, people will not know how much those shots were to do with leaving Shogun gasping for air.


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> Ne he did not, because Phil Davis is not JBJ! Phil Davis normally goes for submission instead of GnP. Two complete different fighter you like to compare here my friend. Don't do this, it makes zero sense!
> 
> It was a very tough matchup for Davis because of Nog's BJJ game not because of Nog's TDD.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't bet on Davis being able to get Bones down right now just because his boxing is so mediocre it would be hard for him to get Bones to not see the shot coming from the distance he would have to initiate it from.

I think Rashad and Machida probably have the best chance of scoring takedowns on Bones right now. They both come into their takedown attempts from striking feints at a high level. Machida wouldn't be able to hold him down though Bones is too big and strong and too good of a wrestler. We'll see if Rashad can keep him down but I doubt he can mount much offense on the ground against him.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

GlasgowKiss said:


> This thread is all kinds of ridiculous...
> 
> Davis' performance was pretty good I thought. He fought a very experienced fighter with decent stand up and slick BJJ, who had clearly been drilling his TDD to fook. Rogan referred to Mark Munoz working with him hard on this specific thing. I was impressed with how Davis didn't get discouraged, and had the mental capacity to change it up and find something that worked. Was also very impressed with his leg kicks. He was tentative trying to strike in full guard, but that was fair enough, given Lil Nog's BJJ. I also don't think he gassed at all, which somebody said.
> 
> ...


Jes.. I completely forgot about this!!! This really changes a lot as well and for the comparisons we made with Bader.

I see you have never seen Shogun fight before.. go watch some tapes first before you judge Jones striking in this fight. Like I said, Tito would have beaten Shogun that night!

Davis striking, Jones striking and Tito's striking would have looked like world class against Shogun that night.


It really seems like not many people know about Shogun at all..


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> I see you have never seen Shogun fight before.. go watch some tapes first before you judge Jones striking in this fight. *Like I said, Tito would have beaten Shogun that night!*
> 
> *Davis striking, Jones striking and Tito's striking would have looked like world class against Shogun that night.*


I'm staying out of this thread, but the bolded part....

That is fu*kin ridiculous! 
Honestly now!

It all started with some people claiming Shogun didn't came at 100% in this fight. 
1. *gas tank effect*
2. *injury/surgery effect*
3. Shogun woke up that morning and he learned that he lost his striking skills

What's it gonna be next?! Shogun was poisened?! Woodoo priests screwed Shogun?! The planet's weren't alligned the right way?!?!

Like Osmium said: it's pure suppositions, but you back them up like they are real and they happened already.

When in reality another thing happened and almost no one seems to aknowledge that.

I respect your opinion Bobby...
But sorry! I can't and won't agree with this one.

____________________________________

_As far as Jones vs Davis: atm - Jones is too good for Davis.
In the future?! Who knows?!
3 years ago no one knew who these 2 were...
Time..._


----------



## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

> I see you have never seen Shogun fight before.. go watch some tapes first before you judge Jones striking in this fight. Like I said, Tito would have beaten Shogun that night!


Take your condescending tone elsewhere, because I won't be putting up with it. And you can ram my Shogun tapes up your arse, I'm done watching them cause they're worn out from repeated viewing.

Seriously dude, I don't get pissed off easily, but you couldn't be more patronising if you tried.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

limba said:


> I respect your opinion Bobby...
> But sorry! I can't and won't agree with this one.


I know Limba and I promise you I won't ever argue with you about this my friend 

Jones is the Champ and the DESERVING CHAMP and you know I am very happy for him.



GlasgowKiss said:


> Take your condescending tone elsewhere, because I won't be putting up with it. And you can ram my Shogun tapes up your arse, I'm done watching them cause they're worn out from repeated viewing.
> 
> Seriously dude, I don't get pissed off easily, but you couldn't be more patronising if you tried.


Uhh, then you are very easy to offend Kiss. Don't take it personal, it's just my opinion and I respect yours too of course.


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> I know Limba and I promise you I won't ever argue with you about this my friend
> 
> Jones is the Champ and the DESERVING CHAMP and you know I am very happy for him.


lol

Don't take it like that.
By all means...*argue* with me! 
My *forum door* is always open. Just knock and state your opinion. lol

And yes - he is the deserving champ!
When you beat the champion that means you deserve to be the champ and you should be respected for that.

It's a shame it doesn't always happen like that.

Especially coming from *keyboard warriors* who never trained or fought for 10 minutes, in their entire life.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

limba said:


> lol
> 
> Don't take it like that.
> By all means...*argue* with me!
> ...


Totally agree with ya, so let's wait for Shogun vs. Jones II


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Totally agree with ya, so let's wait for Shogun vs. Jones II


That won't happen sooner than 2013 i think.
I can wait...

But...by late 2014 - mid 2015, Jones will be a fulltime HW imo.

Another prediction "limba ®"


----------



## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

> Don't take it personal, it's just my opinion and I respect yours too of course.


Fair enough mate, but thats wholely different to telling me 'to go watch Shogun tapes, becuase you obviously haven't seen him fight'

Either you respect my opinion or you don't, your first post to me showed a clear lack of it.

But hey, ce la vie and all that.......


----------



## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

BobbyCooper said:


> I agree with you on the versatile part :thumbsup:
> 
> However, I don't see this great striking yet :confused02: Jones leaves himself open so much when he comes forward. Any half decent counter striker would easily exploit that.
> 
> ...


I don't understand how "any half decent counter striker would exploit that" when he just shit wrecked shogun, who is arguably the best striker at 205. 

Also I do think jones would throw Davis around, just because of the stylistic match up wrestling wise. Jones uses Greco and Judo in most of histake downs. Which is a lot of counter force. Davis uses traditional freestyle wrestling, which is a lot of force on force, Judo is the perfect counter for Davis' attack.


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

So I watched this fight again tonight and have to admit that Phil Davis looked better than I initially gave hm credit for. He fought with Nog, brought the fight to Nog and then took that fight from Nog.

There's no doubt that he has holes in his game, but as others have said; I don't think the ufc is going to rush davis' progression.

Davis/Vera anyone?


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> I don't understand how "any half decent counter striker would exploit that" when he just shit wrecked shogun, who is arguably the best striker at 205.
> 
> Also I do think jones would throw Davis around, just because of the stylistic match up wrestling wise. Jones uses Greco and Judo in most of histake downs. Which is a lot of counter force. Davis uses traditional freestyle wrestling, which is a lot of force on force, Judo is the perfect counter for Davis' attack.


Guys how many times do I have to say that this wasn't Shogun that night. That was shadow of his former self! Or are you really that ignorant that you would believe that Jones could pick apart a Black Belt in Muay Thai?? It's impossible for a guy who only strikes for 2 years maybe a little more.. a heahlty Shogun would eat him alive in a rematch! Not saying Jones couldn't win, but he could never outstrike him like that, there is just no way. Every rookie can see that Jones throws everything sloppy and leaves himself open like a guy who only has 2, 3 years of experience. It's clear as day to me that Shogun gassed out after 3 minutes into the fight.. thats really no rocket sience either. I always tell them to watch some Shogun tapes on here, everybody can figure that one out. It's common sense!

Also I do believe that Davis could take Jones down. Jones hasn't had the chance yet to show me that he could defend his shot! And he couldn't show me how he would deal with a guy like that on top with this great grappler.


----------



## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

Phil Davis is underrated IMO, he just put away a Nog, they aint what they were but its still no mean feat.


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Guys how many times do I have to say that this wasn't Shogun that night. That was shadow of his former self! Or are you really that ignorant that you would believe that Jones could pick apart a Black Belt in Muay Thai?? *It's impossible for a guy who only strikes for 2 years maybe a little more*.. a heahlty Shogun would eat him alive in a rematch! Not saying Jones couldn't win, but he could never outstrike him like that, there is just no way. Every rookie can see that Jones throws everything sloppy and leaves himself open like a guy who only has 2, 3 years of experience. It's clear as day to me that Shogun gassed out after 3 minutes into the fight.. thats really no rocket sience either. I always tell them to watch some Shogun tapes on here, everybody can figure that one out. It's common sense!









Muay Thai 101! 
5 seconds into the fight! 
Was Shogun gassed after 5 seconds?!?!?!?!?




> “He hits hard, I took a knee shot early on and was out of it the whole fight,” Shogun explained.


Source


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

limba said:


> Muay Thai 101!
> 5 seconds into the fight!
> Was Shogun gassed after 5 seconds?!?!?!?!?
> 
> ...


Limba I don't wanna tell you as well to go and watch some Shogun tapes.. Shogun never gasses after getting hit like that. He wasn't even badly rocked by this knee either. 

I explained this knee strike earlier. It's similar to the knee Lyoto threw at him in the first fight. He felt it and it hurt, but it did nothing to his gas tank or his ability to continue.. infact Shogun immediately clinches up with Jones and Lyoto, wich is a inidacte that he did not lose strenght and power at all. It's the complete oppososite when you are rocked badly.

Shogun normally is like a machine and he takes everything. Him comming out and saying it was the knee strike wich decided the fight :sarcastic12: is a complete joke limba. He continued like nothing happned after this knee. He first started to slow down after the first grappling exchange limba.. thats an obvious sign of bad stamina. Because grappling is much more exhausting than striking.










was the knee really the deciding factor Limba? I mean really??


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> *Limba I don't wanna tell you as well to go and watch some Shogun tapes..*


I could tell you to watch some Jon Jones tapes also...:sarcastic12:



BobbyCooper said:


> Shogun never gasses after getting hit like that. He wasn't even badly rocked by this knee either.
> 
> I explained this knee strike earlier. It's similar to the knee Lyoto threw at him in the first fight. He felt it and it hurt, but it did nothing to his gas tank or his ability to continue.. infact Shogun immediately clinches up with Jones and Lyoto, wich is a inidacte that he did not lose strenght and power at all. It's the complete oppososite when you are rocked badly.
> 
> Shogun normally is like a machine and he takes everything. Him comming out and saying it was the knee strike wich decided the fight :sarcastic12: is a complete joke limba. He continued like nothing happned after this knee. *He first started to slow down after the first grappling exchange limba.. thats an obvious sign of bad stamina. Because grappling is much more exhausting than striking.*


A lot of people are criticising Jon Jones because his cardio was very poor for this fight.

Well then: if Shogun showed bad cardio in this fight, and Jones also showed bad cardio ---> that means Jones wasn't at 100% also.

Logical dedection = a tired fighter destroyed another tired fighter!

_PS: it was Jones's 2nd fight in 6 weeks and 5 straight months of hard camp/training_



BobbyCooper said:


> was the knee really the deciding factor Limba? I mean really??


It played a big role.
Oh yeah...there was something else also:








































And another thing...about *knees* (flying knees!)


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

limba said:


> I could tell you to watch some Jon Jones tapes also...:sarcastic12:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know I will step on granite here with ya limba  but I would do the same if MAchida had been in there.  No doupt!


I told you my reasons! I don't see how anybody could make a case that this was the real Shogun.. it's absolutely beyond me. It was simply a shell of his former self. 

Everybody Limba, including myself was worried about Shogun's conditioning before the fight.. I wasn't the only one and everybody knew that this would be the deciding factor. Would Shogun come in in shape?? Or will we see another bad performance by Shogun ala the Forrest fight?
I mean that was clear as day!

The gif's you are showing me are from the second round limba! I told you when Shogun started to gas out. Right after the first grappling exchange he was DONE! He couldn't breath anymore limba. Just listen to his corner for a second.. the only thing they are saying is breath Shogun, breath.. no tactics, no game plan just breath...

Also the Aldo knee is completely different limba. I showed you the gif after the knee. Shogun was moving like always and easily blocking the kick from Jones. Shogun doesn't get rocked easily and even a perfect timed knee to the liver doesn't slow Shogun down.. the guy is literally a machine and takes everything.


I really don't why I am even still debating this, but what we all had in mind happened once again with Shogun. He gassed after having another knee surgery.


All I can say to you is wait for Shogun vs. Jones II with an even better version of Jon Jones and you will see the difference.


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Shogun was gassed or hurt end of story. I have seen him fight since pride shogun never gets hit without coming back at you. Shogun is alway the aggressor, however jones pushed the pace and and outworked him. I saw the fight 3 times and after the first gapple exchange shogun speed had disappear. From them on he his striking ability was gone when he throw something there was no power or intent. Which is a sign of a fighter who is hurt/gass/or not right. Believe me when i say this Shogun is an elite striker what he did in that fight is what shogun does when he is not 100%.

I did not want to bet on this fight based on the fact every time shogun has an injury his comeback fights have been bad. A second fight would be interesting as hell.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> Shogun was gassed or hurt end of story. I have seen him fight since pride shogun never gets hit without coming back at you. Shogun is alway the aggressor, however jones pushed the pace and and outworked him. I saw the fight 3 times and after the first gapple exchange shogun speed had disappear. From them on he his striking ability was gone when he throw something there was no power or intent. Which is a sign of a fighter who is hurt/gass/or not right. Believe me when i say this Shogun is an elite striker what he did in that fight is what shogun does when he is not 100%.


What should have hurt him so badly? There wasn't anything! After that knee he continued as always. Then Jones takes him down and only really does a little ground and pound. Then Shogun get's back up and looks like shit. 

Now was that a sign of bad stamina or because he was hurt? 

It's common sense! People need to stop making stuff up..


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> What should have hurt him so badly? There wasn't anything! After that knee he continued as always. Then Jones takes him down and only really does a little ground and pound. Then Shogun get's back up and looks like shit.
> 
> Now was that a sign of bad stamina or because he was hurt?
> 
> It's common sense! People need to stop making stuff up..


Everything in the fight points to shogun not being 100% or forrest giffin shogun. Jones did the same thing to bonnar picked him apart and still could not put him away. Shogun is a tough sob, if he was 100% i don't think jones striknig would have hurt him like it did. Remember shogun took a knee from machida then followed with a ko counter that machida never saw coming. In this fight all shogun strike was telegraphed and slow.

To be honest though in a rematch i do see jones winning but not like the way he did. My guess and money would be on a decision.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> Everything in the fight points to shogun not being 100% or forrest giffin shogun. Jones did the same thing to bonnar picked him apart and still could not put him away. Shogun is a tough sob, if he was 100% i don't think jones striknig would have hurt him like it did. Remember shogun took a knee from machida then followed with a ko counter that machida never saw coming. In this fight all shogun strike was telegraphed and slow.
> 
> To be honest though in a rematch i do see jones winning but not like the way he did. My guess and money would be on a decision.


A voice of reason in a complete mass :thumbsup:

People just need to put things into perspective and it's clear as day!


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> I know I will step on granite here with ya limba  but I would do the same if MAchida had been in there.  No doupt!
> 
> 
> I told you my reasons! I don't see how anybody could make a case that this was the real Shogun.. it's absolutely beyond me. It was simply a shell of his former self.
> ...


Actually this whole thing grows on me.
Shogun showed awful cardio! 
Jones showed average cardio! (that means this wasn't the normal Jon Jones in this fight).
Fine with me!

Wait 'til you see the "no-cardio-problems" Jon Jones ...:sarcastic12:



BobbyCooper said:


> Also the Aldo knee is completely different limba.


Why?! - Because Swanson doesn't have a good chin?!
and
How?! - Was Aldo's knee more powerful?!



BobbyCooper said:


> I showed you the gif after the knee. Shogun was moving like always and easily blocking the kick from Jones. Shogun doesn't get rocked easily and even a perfect timed knee to the liver doesn't slow Shogun down.. the guy is literally a machine and takes everything.


I agree..Shogun is one tough dude. And he ca take punishement. 
He is not a machine. He is just human. Stop describing him like he is Superman or a Super Saiyan. :thumbsdown:



BobbyCooper said:


> I really don't why I am even still debating this, but what we all had in mind happened once again with Shogun. He gassed after having another knee surgery.


If i remember correctly, Shogun and his camp made it clear after the fight that his recovery didn't go well, because he didn't go all the way with it, ignoring the doctor's advice.

This time, they've said, the recovery went perfectly. He followed the whole rehabilitation program.

And he had 6-7 months to get in shape for the fight.

And...I'm sorry to tell you this, but: GETTING IN SHAPE FOR A FIGHT IS ALSO PART OF FIGHTING! GOING INTO A FIGHT UNPREPARED IS NOT AN EXCUSE! 



BobbyCooper said:


> All I can say to you is wait for Shogun vs. Jones II with an even better version of Jon Jones and you will see the difference.


Bring it!

_PS: that's all with this thread! we are starting to talk suppositions and i don't like that part honestly.
I'm gonna stop here, until we have some facts to debate on.
Nice talking to you _:thumbsup:


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Limba you have been a great jones supporter and a pain in the ass to many lol. When jones loses i will be on you like fylies on shit about it. It may take several years or a decade, but if were still both around on this site i'll be the first one to say i told you so. However we have a lot of time before he loses who knows i might join you on the jones train. I'm on the fence right now as he is sick, but if he beats evans easily, and rampage or machida he is the goat.


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> Limba you have been a great jones supporter and a pain in the ass to many lol. When jones loses i will be on you like fylies on shit about it. It may take several years or a decade, but if were still both around on this site i'll be the first one to say i told you so. However we have a lot of time before he loses who knows i might join you on the jones train. I'm on the fence right now as he is sick, but if he beats evans easily, and rampage or machida he is the goat.


LOL

The ride is smooth...
I've been on the train since day one and i'm loving it.


----------



## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

limba said:


> LOL
> 
> The ride is smooth...
> I've beeon on the train since day one and i'm loving it.


If Jones gets passed Evans it wont be derailing for quite some time, the division is very weak at the moment.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

***** de Amigo said:


> If Jones gets passed Evans it wont be derailing for quite some time, the division is very weak at the moment.


LOL, WUT?!

Jones being a Kingpin doesn't detract from the depth that is the LHW division. There's something to be said for the belt being passed around like a 2 dollar hooker. Take Jones out of the equation, and the LHW division is virtually impossible to sort or predict, primarily because so many of the fighters ARE talented. Much like LW. The division is far from weak my friend, though know I disagree respectfully.


----------

