# How would Overeem fair in the UFC?



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Tonight he looked like a beast and made Rogers looked like kimbo. Wondering how would he do against the top 5 Hw in the UFC? He is a great striker and with the added power he could do some damage. What is you you opinion on him?


----------



## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

I think he would do very well. The only thing is, the UFC's HW division is so stacked right now that I dont see anyone being able to hold the belt for a very long period of time, kinda like the LHW division. Im sure Overeem would get a chance to wear it though if he were in the UFC.


----------



## astrallite (Mar 14, 2010)

Rodgers looked terrified tonight. I don't even know if you can even categorize what happened as a take down; it looked like Rodgers just slipped. Overeem has the tools, certainly. 

He has a little too much muscle though, it looks like he has zero flexibility. I think he would lose to a much quicker fighter. i think a smaller, mobile HW like Cain Velasquez can beat him (i.e., grind out a decision).


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

astrallite said:


> Rodgers looked terrified tonight. I don't even know if you can even categorize what happened as a take down; it looked like Rodgers just slipped. Overeem has the tools, certainly.
> 
> He has a little too much muscle though, it looks like he has zero flexibility. I think he would lose to a much quicker fighter. i think a smaller, mobile HW like Cain Velasquez can beat him (i.e., grind out a decision).


Aside from cain and Junior is the top dogs faster such as lesnar or carwin?


----------



## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> Aside from cain and Junior is the top dogs faster such as lesnar or carwin?


JDS is much faster than Overeem but Overeem is definitely faster than Lesnar and Carwin. Carwin is zombie like slow out of the clinch and Lesnar's only speed is in his shoot and transition.


----------



## rushStPierre (Nov 22, 2009)

The Overeem of tonight would beat Brock hands down. There's just nobody with that size that has that much skill. K1-level striker with the ability to submit his opponents and I don't believe Brock would have a strength advantage either. He just tooled a 280lb Rogers like a ragdoll. 

I almost want to see Overeem in the UFC more than Fedor now. Hopefully hes done with the whole K1 thing.


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

At the very worst, i think Overeem would be the 6th best HW in the UFC behind Brock, Carwin, Cain, JDS, and Mir (in no particular order). At the very best, he would be UFC champion.

Most likely, i think that Overeem would definitely contend for the title and have a very good chance of winning it. I think the UFC's HW division has grown a lot recently and has numerous talented fighters but is a bit overrated by people on this forum IMO. 
For instance, Lesnar's career isnt overwhelmingly impressive and he only has like 4 wins compared to Overeem's 33. Also, Carwin has looked somewhat lackluster standing up from a technical standpoint, and i think Overeem could outdo him in that department. As for Cain, while i wouldnt call him one-dimensional i would say that he obviously relies a lot more on his wrestling than anything else and considering Overeem's experience and strength advantage i think he could beat Cain if they kept it standing. 
Basically, Overeem is an elite top 10 HW in the world without question and would be in title contention in the UFC.


----------



## Powers (May 10, 2010)

Man I thought Overeeem could only ragdoll those K1 guys around but dammnn! I was shocked as to see how much strength this guy had in ragdolling a big HW in Rogers with ease. Man I kind of felt sorry for Rogers he literally got mauled by the Reem. I think with his K1 striking abilities he out strikes everone in the UFC HW division & out muscles everyone aside from Brock & Carwin, but let's be real here he's a decade ahead in experience & technically more sound than both those other big guys. If he comes to the UFC its OVER!(REEM)


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

rushStPierre said:


> The Overeem of tonight would beat Brock hands down. There's just nobody with that size that has that much skill. K1-level striker with the ability to submit his opponents and I don't believe Brock would have a strength advantage either. He just tooled a 280lb Rogers like a ragdoll.
> 
> I almost want to see Overeem in the UFC more than Fedor now. Hopefully hes done with the whole K1 thing.


Go home. Overeem could take 10 shots of roids before the fight and Lesnar would still throw him across the room.

Overeem isn't that good, Rogers is just shit. No MMA background, just a tirechanger with some power who did better against a fighter who wasn't prepared for him(Fraudor

Overeem would be destroyed by nearly every top 5 fighter in the UFC. I'd only pick him over Nog.


----------



## rushStPierre (Nov 22, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Go home. Overeem could take 10 shots of roids before the fight and Lesnar would still throw him across the room.
> 
> Overeem isn't that good, Rogers is just shit. No MMA background, just a tirechanger with some power who did better against a fighter who wasn't prepared for him(Fraudor
> 
> Overeem would be destroyed by nearly every top 5 fighter in the UFC. I'd only pick him over Nog.


Get off of Brocks nuts, who has he beat? Randy Couture stuffed some of his takedowns and you think hes gonna throw Overeem. 

:laugh:


----------



## grnlt (Oct 15, 2006)

Overeem would defintly do well in UFC. I wouldnt say he so much tossed rogers around like a ragdoll but he had him off balance and had the leverage. However, Rogers has never fought anyone as strong as Overeem and was obviously intimadated from the getgo. I hope Overeem will come to UFC cause I think he would cause major problems for any HW and that includes Fedor.

I also believe Rogers was WAYYYY overhyped by strikeforce they act like he had Fedor beat he never had fedor in any real trouble he hit him maybe 2 solid shots on his supposed ground and pound he landed on Fedor, still yet Overeem was very impressive tonight


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Go home. Overeem could take 10 shots of roids before the fight and Lesnar would still throw him across the room.
> 
> Overeem isn't that good, Rogers is just shit. No MMA background, just a tirechanger with some power who did better against a fighter who wasn't prepared for him(Fraudor
> 
> Overeem would be destroyed by nearly every top 5 fighter in the UFC. I'd only pick him over Nog.


See i agree to a certain point but I believe his experience over the past two years and the added muscle has transform him into a great fighter. See I can't knock Rogers, Overeem made him looked like an bum. But then again Rogers gave Fedor a fight and I'm not about to doubt fedor's greatness. Because he is an animal. But Overeem performance tonight and growth over the years has to count for something.


----------



## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Overeem probably wouldn't be able to put Brock on his back. Not only is Brock stronger, but his wrestling is miles ahead of both Overeem and Rogers. Just because Rogers is a big guy like Lesnar, it doesn't mean that Overeem would be able to rag doll Lesnar just as easily. That is completely laughable in my opinion. Although I'm not saying Overeem couldn't knock Brock out. It's just if he won, it's safe to say that it wouldn't be in the same way that he beat Rogers.

For the record, I'd pick Lesnar to win. That's just my opinion.


----------



## Godzuki (Feb 26, 2007)

I think he could do very well, this is a very different Overeem to the Pride version. I think his chin is slightly questionable, but HW's hit so hard nowadays that if anyone gets caught flush they're going down, so it kind of levels the playing field a little. I'd also be interested to see if he could keep up the intensity over a full 5 rounds at his new mammoth size. Apart from those little niggling doubts, I think he looks awesome. I for one would love to see him in the UFC.


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Question is Overeem and the ufc even pissible? Would the UFc allow him to do K1 also?


----------



## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> Question is Overeem and the ufc even pissible? Would the UFc allow him to do K1 also?


no and thats the reason why we won't see him in the UFC because he makes some good money in K1 and he is all about the money.


----------



## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> Question is Overeem and the ufc even pissible? Would the UFc allow him to do K1 also?


I'm sure the UFC could make it worth it to Overeem if he beats Fedor.


----------



## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

Need to see his base/TDD be tested though before really saying how he would do vs Cain/Lesnar/Carwin. I think a fight with JDS would be great and he would smash Mir and most other HW's.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

rushStPierre said:


> Get off of Brocks nuts, who has he beat? Randy Couture stuffed some of his takedowns and you think hes gonna throw Overeem.
> 
> :laugh:


Frank Mir could beat all of Overeem's wins in one night.

As could Couture...


Not like Paul Buentello's going to be much of a threat..

Also, Randy Couture = Greco-Roman olympic wrestler

Overeem = trains wrestling

Of course there's no difference.


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

Roflcopter said:


> Frank Mir could beat all of Overeem's wins in one night.
> 
> As could Couture...
> 
> ...


Overeem = way bigger and stronger than Couture, and is two decades younger.

Of course there's no difference


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Right, so therefore Gonzaga should've outwrestled Couture...

Logic seems to be missing on this forum.


----------



## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> Frank Mir could beat all of Overeem's wins in one night.
> 
> As could Couture...
> 
> ...


randy vs ubereem = first death in MMA hell randy is already out of it, just in a recent interview he said that he already fought alistair when it was actually his brother and the overeem brothers are not like the nog brothers


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

guy incognito said:


> randy vs ubereem = first death in MMA hell randy is already out of it, just in a recent interview he said that he already fought alistair when it was actually his brother and the overeem brothers are not like the nog brothers


I didn't say Randy would beat Alistair...I said he's a better wrestler.


----------



## rushStPierre (Nov 22, 2009)

I really hope Roflcopter turns out to be 13yrs old so we can have a rational explanation for his arguements.


----------



## punchbag (Mar 1, 2010)

Powers said:


> Man I thought Overeeem could only ragdoll those K1 guys around but dammnn! I was shocked as to see how much strength this guy had in ragdolling a big HW in Rogers with ease. Man I kind of felt sorry for Rogers he literally got mauled by the Reem. I think with his K1 striking abilities he out strikes everone in the UFC HW division & out muscles everyone aside from Brock & Carwin, but let's be real here he's a decade ahead in experience & technically more sound than both those other big guys. If he comes to the UFC its OVER!(REEM)


Lets not get carried away just yet, it was "Brett Rogers" Alistair just beat, who other than a solid punch has what skills exactly?

Alistair is one of if not the most technical striker in the
Heavyweight division right now granted, with only Cain Velasquez/JDS/Mirko on a good day, possibly being able to give him a run for his money from a technical point of view.
But, is Alistair going to be able to take a shot from Carwin, Brock or any of the other UFC elite, he's had a suspect chin in the past with 6 of 11 defeats coming via KO/TKO,in PRIDE, in a lower weight class, on top of that is he really going to be able to out wrestle a BROCK, CARWIN or VELASQUEZ.
Sure his new found strength may help, but will he have the technique to match these guys yet? or have a better ground game than MIR,BIG NOG or NELSON.
I doubt this, we all know if it stays standing ALISTAIR can beat anyone in the world, but again it is MMA and although he actually has more subs on his record than ko/tko's is he really going to be able to hang with the best guys?

THE UFC HW DIVISION IS WIDE OPEN RIGHT NOW AND IF "THE DEMOLITION MAN" catches anyone with a shot, he could well take that belt home to "Horse Meat" territory,lol.


----------



## astrallite (Mar 14, 2010)

Shogun would still own Ubereem


----------



## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> I didn't say Randy would beat Alistair...I said he's a better wrestler.


oh yeah he is the better wrestler but i think he would sub randy with a guillotine he's the only guy to sub vitor and just has all around awesome guillotines and that was when he was fighting at LHW with the added mass i imagine it would be a nightmare to be in one now


----------



## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

astrallite said:


> Shogun would still own Ubereem


shogun would eat a uber knee and get knocked out and i love shogun but there's a reason why shogun had to take overeem to the ground both times


----------



## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

at HW would love to see JDS vs Overeem, I think both JDS and Overeem would school the next HW champ Shane Carwin, JDS ids the only HW in the UFC who I think could stand up with Overeem and stand any chance.


----------



## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

I think Overeem could hang. He's a beast and his striking is solid...

That being said, my first instinct is that a Lesnar vs Overeem match would basically be a super-sized version of Koscheck vs Daley.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Why would people rate JDS above Overeem? As much as i like JDS, he is a pure stand up fighter and the reality is, he would get completely wrecked by Overeem on the feet.


----------



## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

How well would Alistair "Ubereem" stack up in the UFC heavyweight division


----------



## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

SigFig said:


> I think Overeem could hang. He's a beast and his striking is solid...
> 
> That being said, my first instinct is that a Lesnar vs Overeem match would basically be a super-sized version of Koscheck vs Daley.


I don't believe this I think different styles are ripe for different weights in MMA, and that striking is a much more important aspect of the game in the heavier weight classes LHE and HW.

Welter Weight on the other hand is just tailored out for wrestlers, the guys can be athletic enough to have the power to shoot quick with the power to take the fight down, plus also are only having to take down much smaller guys, guys like GSP, Fitch and Kos are shooting at much faster speeds than any HW ever possibly could and thats how fast it need to be to be as effectieve as it is, HW's are always much more likely to be tagged on the way in, also any TDD skills a fighter may have is more effective simply because of the extra time the have from the shoot to the take down to work with them.

I'm not saying Wrestling is useless at HW just that on its no way near as effective as it is a lower weight especially WW, top notch striking at HW I believe will pre-vale,


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

The thing with Overeem is he's probably one of the leanest/ strongest/ fighters out there who has a world class striking pedigree.

Carwin is limited in his striking, but is extremely powerful.
JDS - boxer
Cain - mixes it up with his wrestling

If these fighters (below) are in the UFC there's no doubt Ubereem should be in as I think at this point he can rip through em even though I've always been a huge fan of Crocop. 

- Hardonk, Berry, Crocop (NC), Stefan, Rothwell, Gilbert Yvel, Roy

Achilles Heel - submission artists (GG, Big Nog, Frank Mir)

With that being said I'd put Ubereem vs one of those strikers to test the waters or a title contender. Wouldn't even mind him going for direct title contention simply because he does have the SF belt already and you can't say it won't be competitive. He has the strength to clinch against any of em and certainly can KO them. I know what everyone is thinking; Cain, Carwin, Brock will take em down. First Ubereem has a wicked guillotine, second he can sprawl, will get underhooks and knee em. He's been in that position and has the experience to deal with it. Of course that would also be the Achilles heel, but tell me who wouldn't be at a disadvantage with Brock or Carwin on top of you? That's what they would do anyways against ANY fighter. 

Ubereem vs Carwin, Cain, JDS, or Brock would be very interesting fights.


----------



## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

I just don't know. I've seen Overeem look so mortal in the past, I feel like he can be broken. He would have success in the UFC, but not be champ in my opinion. I feel like Alistair would be overwhelmed against the new, hungry cast of HW's in the UFC.

I mean, who has he beaten in mma in the last few years that should really impress me to the point he could beat top level UFC talent?


----------



## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

He would do very well. Overeem would probably beat Carwin and Velaquez but wouldn't get by JDS or Lesnar.


----------



## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Freiermuth said:


> Need to see his base/TDD be tested though before really saying how he would do vs Cain/Lesnar/Carwin. I think a fight with JDS would be great and he would smash Mir and most other HW's.


Indeed. The top guys in the UFC HW division are all high level wrestlers, sure Overeem could beat up Brock if they decided to stand and bang it out, but how would he deal with Lesnar's power double leg takedown? We don't know. And until we find out one way or another there's not really enough to go on.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

AlphaDawg said:


> He would do very well. Overeem would probably beat Carwin and Velaquez but wouldn't get by JDS or Lesnar.


How would he not get past JDS? Overeems striking is leagues ahead of JDS.


----------



## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> How would he not get past JDS? Overeems striking is leagues ahead of JDS.


yeah, Overeem beat Badr Hari, Peter Aerts and came very close to beating Remy Bonjasky. I don't think JDS could touch any of those guys standing.


----------



## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

I think Overeem would catch Brock with some good shots and possibly be the first to KO him


----------



## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

I really want to see JDS vs Reem

i think that would be a fine measure of where their standups are in MMA.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Honestly, if people cant recognise overeems kick-boxing skill and talent, then you shouldnt be posting in this thread. Overeem would destroy JDS on the feet, its as simple as that. Although, JDS would most likely be reems biggest competition in the striking department in the HW division.


----------



## Jebber (Oct 11, 2008)

Sekou said:


> I think Overeem would catch Brock with some good shots and possibly be the first to KO him


very true - but he's better hurry because he wouldn't be as effective when Brock put him on his back.

I like the comparison to the Josh vs. Daley fight.


----------



## Toroian (Jan 3, 2009)

Sekou said:


> I think Overeem would catch Brock with some good shots and possibly be the first to KO him


he will be koed by carwin soon


----------



## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

Well I don't know but would like to find out, isn't there another guy in that organization that he could fight that's pretty good, for a test I mean.


----------



## anderton46 (Apr 23, 2010)

I think you give all give rogers too much credit. He was shit and all overeem proved was that rogers didn't deserve a shot. May aswell have had buentello in there. Overeem has proved nothing


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> How would he not get past JDS? Overeems striking is leagues ahead of JDS.





Mckeever said:


> Honestly, if people cant recognise overeems kick-boxing skill and talent, then you shouldnt be posting in this thread. Overeem would destroy JDS on the feet, its as simple as that. Although, JDS would most likely be reems biggest competition in the striking department in the HW division.


I believe Overeem could beat everybody in the MMA world right now. The guy just reached his prime! He finished third in the last K-1 GP, wich is absolutely amazing. Nobody should stand with him in MMA. Plus he is extremely well rounded. A complete MMA fighter who deserves to fight the best! :thumbsup:



anderton46 said:


> I think you give all give rogers too much credit. He was shit and all overeem proved was that rogers didn't deserve a shot. May aswell have had buentello in there. Overeem has proved nothing


The fact that Fedor nearly lost to Rogers and that it was Rogers first MMA loss, makes it a legit name for Overeem in my mind. But Fedor lives extremely from his Legendary status these days, I agree.


----------



## anderton46 (Apr 23, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> The fact that Fedor nearly lost to Rogers and that it was Rogers first MMA loss, makes it a legit name for Overeem in my mind. But Fedor lives extremely from his Legendary status these days, I agree.


I just think if you lose a fight your next fight should not be for the title, that is why I think the shot was not deserved, especially after his performance last night.


----------



## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

LOL so Overeem beats Rogers and now people are acting like he could take anyone in the UFC...only on this forum.


----------



## Kado (Apr 18, 2010)

The way I see it the UFC's top 4 HW's have a total of 37 fights. Alistair almost has that many wins. So his experience coupled with the power, and technique he has he would be a threat to any one of them. Realisticlly I can see him beating Lesnar,JDS,Velasquez, and Carwin. He would be a great fighter for the UFC to pick up. Saying that I do not think we will see him in the UFC. He can make to much money working for Strikeforce, Dream, and K-1.


----------



## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Honestly, if people cant recognise overeems kick-boxing skill and talent, then you shouldnt be posting in this thread. Overeem would destroy JDS on the feet, its as simple as that. Although, JDS would most likely be reems biggest competition in the striking department in the HW division.


I tend to agree with this.

And I'm a pretty big JDS fan...


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

SigFig said:


> I tend to agree with this.
> 
> And I'm a pretty big JDS fan...


Im a JDS fan too, but people have to be realistic here. Overeem isnt just a K-1 striker, he has beat the best in the business, knocking out Badr Hari demands respect.

Jds is a pure striker, i dont see how people can give him a chance against reem, given his more diverse, superior striking.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

JDS isn't a complete Striker actually.. he relies almost everything on his Boxing skills. Overeem however is a K-1 elite Striker who has even chances of winning the GP in the nest upcoming years.

But not only that, I give him the Ground advantage too.


----------



## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> JDS isn't a complete Striker actually.. he relies almost everything on his Boxing skills. Overeem however is a K-1 elite Striker who has even chances of winning the GP in the nest upcoming years.
> 
> But not only that, I give him the Wrestling and BJJ advantage too.


Yea, when i said pure striker, i meant that JDS relies only on his striking in his fights, thats all he wants to do.

Like you pointed out, he is a boxer, where as Reem is much more diverse and can knock you out with hands, knees or the feet. 

Has he said that he wants to continue doing K-1 as well as mma? I hope that isnt the case, because he needs to join the UFC asap.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

He said he would stop to fight in K-1 as far as I remember.. but when he continues to fight at SF and doesn't sign with the UFC, then I would love to see him fight in the GP again.


----------



## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> He said he would stop to fight in K-1 as far as I remember.. but when he continues to fight at SF and doesn't sign with the UFC, then I would love to see him fight in the GP again.


Id bet good money he will fight in the GP again this year. He did very, very well last year and can still improve.


----------



## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

Is he part Samoan? Can't figure out what nationality he is.


----------



## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

joshua7789 said:


> Id bet good money he will fight in the GP again this year. He did very, very well last year and can still improve.


I believe I heard him saying, that he wants to quit K-1 and only focus on MMA from now on. 



footodors said:


> Is he part Samoan? Can't figure out what nationality he is.


He is Dutch!


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

I don't get where all this Overeem hype is coming from. He's been fighting cans for the past 2-3 years. The only notable thing he's done is get a KO over an undertrained Hari. If they fought again Hari would wreck Overeem. 

Then he beats Brett Rogers and suddenly he can hang with everyone in the HW division.

It's funny how everyone is talking up his K-1 skills when it's so obvious none of you watch K-1 to know enough about it. Overeem will never win K-1. He's not as great as he's being made out to be. The only thing he has going for him is power and size. He would get taken down and mauled repeatedly in the UFC.


----------



## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

MikeHawk said:


> I don't get where all this Overeem hype is coming from. He's been fighting cans for the past 2-3 years. The only notable thing he's done is get a KO over an undertrained Hari. If they fought again Hari would wreck Overeem.
> 
> Then he beats Brett Rogers and suddenly he can hang with everyone in the HW division.
> 
> It's funny how everyone is talking up his K-1 skills when it's so obvious none of you watch K-1 to know enough about it. Overeem will never win K-1. He's not as great as he's being made out to be. The only thing he has going for him is power and size. He would get taken down and mauled repeatedly in the UFC.


Clearly you dont know anything about k1 either big guy. Hari and Overeem fought again, Hari did wreck him. He came within about thirty seconds of beating Remy Bonjasky, he kicked the shit out of Peter Aerts and he destroyed Teixera. Dont try and talk down to folks when you dont know what the hell your talking about.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Would have a shot vs. all, but I think he would get beat by the wrestlers of the division.


----------



## FatFreeMilk (Jan 22, 2010)

footodors said:


> Is he part Samoan? Can't figure out what nationality he is.


Dutch but probably with Suriname heritage, born in Britain IIRC.


----------



## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

aerius said:


> Indeed. The top guys in the UFC HW division are all high level wrestlers, sure Overeem could beat up Brock if they decided to stand and bang it out, but how would he deal with Lesnar's power double leg takedown? We don't know. And until we find out one way or another there's not really enough to go on.


Anderson Silva
Lyoto Machida
Mauricio Rua
JDS

4 of the top 5 P4P fighters in the UFC (exception GSP) are not wrestlers, only in the WW division does wrestling prove so dominant with the top 2 maybe 3, I would have Ken Flo over Kos here, I believe this is because 170lb is the perfect weight where wrestlers can shoot fast enough to overcome even the fastest of strikers, I believe at the heavier weights striking can be more successful.


----------



## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

I think everyone thinks Overeems striking is a lot better than it actually is. Sounds like people think oh he fights in K-1 so that means his striking is better than everyone in the UFC cause K-1 strikers are all better than UFC strikers which I really dont think is the case at all. I think JDS has the best standup in the HW division and i think he could take out Overeem stranding. Overeem is not leagues better than him cause he does well in K-1. I think JDS would also do good in K-1 the guys hands are really good. 

Cain would Maul Overeem so would brock. Carwin would probably overpower him and hold him against the cage dirty box him or take him down and GNP. I think Overeem could probably beat a lot of UFC HWs but I think these guys would take him out.


----------



## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

steveo412 said:


> I think everyone thinks Overeems striking is a lot better than it actually is. Sounds like people think oh he fights in K-1 so that means his striking is better than everyone in the UFC cause K-1 strikers are all better than UFC strikers which I really dont think is the case at all. I think JDS has the best standup in the HW division and i think he could take out Overeem stranding. Overeem is not leagues better than him cause he does well in K-1. I think JDS would also do good in K-1 the guys hands are really good.
> 
> Cain would Maul Overeem so would brock. Carwin would probably overpower him and hold him against the cage dirty box him or take him down and GNP. I think Overeem could probably beat a lot of UFC HWs but I think these guys would take him out.


and you are basing this on what except from the believe the UFC has successful spread into the MMA world that its fighters are the best in the world and nobody outside the UFC is fights worthy opponents, yep you keep thinking what Dana tells you to think, even tho the UFC is the one organisation that is preventing co-promotion events to see what would really happen because it know if one of its champs was to get beat outside the UFC it would destroy the hype they have built up so well. like what happen when they took Chuck to Pride and he was beat by Rampage, was an expensive exposure for the UFC having to buy Pride to get the credibility back as the No.1 MMA organisation.


----------



## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

KillerShark1985 said:


> and you are basing this on what except from the believe the UFC has successful spread into the MMA world that its fighters are the best in the world and nobody outside the UFC is fights worthy opponents, yep you keep thinking what Dana tells you to think, even tho the UFC is the one organisation that is preventing co-promotion events to see what would really happen because it know if one of its champs was to get beat outside the UFC it would destroy the hype they have built up so well. like what happen when they took Chuck to Pride and he was beat by Rampage, was an expensive exposure for the UFC having to buy Pride to get the credibility back as the No.1 MMA organisation.


Lol I said I THINK one fighter in the UFCs standup is better than his, WTF are you even saying here. I analyzed how I think other fights would go. Do you see me writing oh Tim Hague would KO overeem cause he fights in UFC and Overeem fights in some barn against cans cause its not UFC. Read it again try not to sound stupid.

UFC doesnt Co-promote there events cause they dont need to and its stupid from a business standpoint to share profits with a rival company when you could have all the revenue.


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> Im a JDS fan too, but people have to be realistic here. Overeem isnt just a K-1 striker, he has beat the best in the business, knocking out Badr Hari demands respect.
> 
> Jds is a pure striker, i dont see how people can give him a chance against reem, given his more diverse, superior striking.


Eh, that came like a week after Badr lost his mind in the Grand Prix and foot stomped Remy and Badr has always had a suspect chin anyways. Overeem isn't close to what Badr is as a kickboxer the rematch showed that. The reason you give JDS a chance against overeem is because the demolition man crumbles when he gets hurt. 

Can the juice knock out basically any heavyweight? Well yeah but he isn't that great of a striker really, doesn't have a granite chin, and while good on the ground isn't a wrecking machine there against people other than pure strikers. So he is a really good heavyweight. He is a top ten guy and has a decent shot against the rest of the top ten. 

Cain would get fucked up brutally by the juice too that would be Bones vs Hamill at HW.


----------



## crispsteez (Jul 1, 2008)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Anderson Silva
> Lyoto Machida
> Mauricio Rua
> *JDS*
> ...


you might want to pump the brakes on that one. JDS is certainly a good prospect, but he's hardly done anything to warrant p4p talk just yet.


----------



## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

crispsteez said:


> you might want to pump the brakes on that one. JDS is certainly a good prospect, but he's hardly done anything to warrant p4p talk just yet.


He will soon ray01:

way I see JDS now, best HW in the UFC, I believe as soon as he gets his shot he will be champ, way I see the HW title going at UFC, Carwin will KO and take it away from Lesnar, then JDS will step up and take it from Carwin after he destroys Nelson.

Only thing I can see that might effect this prediction is Cain, if JDS has to fight Cain before a title shot then I would not even like to guess who would win that fight, but I dont think Cain could beat Carwin or Brock for more stylistic reasons where I believe JDS would, but I think Cain could be stylistically bad for JDS but if I had to give a prediction I would have JDS to beat Cain as well.


----------



## crispsteez (Jul 1, 2008)

KillerShark1985 said:


> He will soon ray01:
> 
> way I see JDS now, best HW in the UFC, I believe as soon as he gets his shot he will be champ, way I see the HW title going at UFC, Carwin will KO and take it away from Lesnar, then JDS will step up and take it from Carwin after he destroys Nelson.
> 
> Only thing I can see that might effect this prediction is Cain, if JDS has to fight Cain before a title shot then I would not even like to guess who would win that fight, but I dont think Cain could beat Carwin or Brock for more stylistic reasons where I believe JDS would, but I think Cain could be stylistically bad for JDS but if I had to give a prediction I would have JDS to beat Cain as well.


yeah i agree. i could see him knocking either of the three out, no problem. my only concern is his ground game and how we haven't seen much of it. he scrambled back to his feet well in the gonzaga fight, but it'll be interesting to see how he fairs on the bottom with either of those three on top of him. i'm hoping he either has a super tight jitz game, considering he trains with nog, or that he's explosive enough to get back to his feet when taken down by a superior wrestler.


----------



## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

I don't see how anyone could say Overeem is better than JDS...JDS has one loss and all of his fights have ended in the 1st round by knockout or tko(with the exception of the cro cop fight) 

Overeem needs to fight a real opponent...IE. NOT BRETT ROGERS.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

I think Overeem would do pretty damn well.

I see him for SURE beating JDS,Mir,Kongo,Nog,Nelson,Duffee

He could MAYBE beat Brock,Cain,Carwin

In my Honest opinion... he would top 3 for sure.


----------



## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

Overeem would do very well, but I wanna see him against a high caliber wrestler like Lesnar, Carwin or Cain. Overeem vs. JDS would be fun as hell too. I would say their technique is pretty close enough, but JDS would compensate Overeem's size and strenght with speed. So yeah, really curious about seeing him in UFC now that he can actually pass drug tests in america.


----------



## deanmzi (Oct 15, 2006)

we'll see what happens with Fedor, but actually would rather him fight Lashley so Lashley can actually get a true test, but anyways would rather see Fedor fight Cain/Carwin/Lesnar (which might never happen) I would put Overeem ahead of Kongo, and probably Nog at this point.


----------



## sNatch204 (Oct 13, 2006)

I dont see how some of you deny Overeem being good. The guy is an Elite K1 striker, has some of the best striking in all of mma, and for sure the best HW striker in mma. Hes probably one of the strongest HW's in mma. Sick submissions, very fast for his size. I personally think Overeem is a top4 HW.


----------



## kano666 (Nov 2, 2007)

KillerShark1985 said:


> I don't believe this I think different styles are ripe for different weights in MMA, and that striking is a much more important aspect of the game in the heavier weight classes LHE and HW.
> 
> Welter Weight on the other hand is just tailored out for wrestlers, the guys can be athletic enough to have the power to shoot quick with the power to take the fight down, plus also are only having to take down much smaller guys, guys like GSP, Fitch and Kos are shooting at much faster speeds than any HW ever possibly could and thats how fast it need to be to be as effectieve as it is, HW's are always much more likely to be tagged on the way in, also any TDD skills a fighter may have is more effective simply because of the extra time the have from the shoot to the take down to work with them.
> 
> I'm not saying Wrestling is useless at HW just that on its no way near as effective as it is a lower weight especially WW, top notch striking at HW I believe will pre-vale,


Very interesting comment. I'm not sure whether I agree with it or not - I'm going to chew on it for awhile - but I've never heard this argument before and it's at least plausible.

Rep.


----------



## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

MikeHawk said:


> I don't get where all this Overeem hype is coming from...
> 
> It's funny how everyone is talking up his K-1 skills when it's so obvious none of you watch K-1 to know enough about it. Overeem will never win K-1. He's not as great as he's being made out to be. The only thing he has going for him is power and size. He would get taken down and mauled repeatedly in the UFC.


Dude, I stay up late to watch the K1 sh*t live on HDNet, so you can just stfu. I even watch the prelims.

Ok, seriously... I DVR the events.

But you can still stfu. 

{That was sarcasm, I'm just focking with you}

Overeem is a beast on the feet though. Anyone who can smash legs has a chance. Granted, it could get dicey against a high level wrestler...


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

SigFig said:


> Dude, I stay up late to watch the K1 sh*t live on HDNet


Bish, most people use pron I watch K-1 to get me in the mood to fancy my wife >_> 

remy... bon...JASKY!!!!!!











but seriously I'd think he'd fare rather well.


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

I would put Overeem in the TOP 5 in the UFC.
He is the only one imo that could keep up with Brock and Carwin when it comes to size and strength. Mir has gotten bigger and stronger, but he doesn't know how to use that power.
Also, Overeem's skills are much better than Lesnar's. hands down. His striking is way better, his ground game also. Only thing Lesnar is better at is wrestling. Pretty much the same thing with Carwin, just that Carwin has better standup than Lesnar imo.
The other 2 Top HW's in the UFC, Cain and JDS could pose some threats to Overeem, one in wrestling and the other in the striking department.
But they are both smaller than Overeem and clearly have a disadvantage reguarding the stregth. Also, i think Cain would lose the stand-up against Overeem and JDS would lose on the ground.

Two things about Overeem though, intrigue me:
1. his chin - it's not the best in the business and is one of his biggest weaknesess, if not the biggest
2. his last 8 fights in MMA have totalled about 16 minutes.
The quality of his opponents can be questionable, he wrecked them indeed, but for me, that leaves a question sign reguarding his condition, his cardio. He has a lot of muscles on him, wich need a lot of oxygen. Muscular fighters need very good cardio.
But then again...if he cand finnish a fight early, he doesn't need a good cardio.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Overeem might not do as well as i first thought he would. Im thinking about that CroCop fight and even though its fair to say Overeem was winning that fight its also pushing it when you say that he totally dominated CroCop. I dont think i saw CroCop in any danger in that fight except for the nut shots. Now looking back at how JDS laid a beating on CroCop it kind of surprises me. Then when i think what guys like Brock,Carwin,Cain would do to CroCop it makes Overeems performance that much less spectacular. I guess at the end of the day its hard to say how well he will do unless he does it. Personally i think Overeem is one of the bigger hit or miss fighters that you really dont know what your getting with him when he enters the cage,

He has great kickboxing skills.. especially for a guy his size. I personally think in K-1 Speed>Strenght but he still does great.

Wrestling wise im not sure what his resume is but i imagine unless your BrockLesnar taking a guy down that big and strong is going to be a struggle no matter how good technically you are because im sure he is pretty decent at it too so when it comes to skill levels being similar then strength does start to matter.

Submission?? I think we can forget about Overeem getting submitted and maybe worry about him putting someone in a freaking armbar... he might be going home with it. Come to think of it i really would like to see Mir vs Overeem in a ground fight.

Also... Mir should takes notes on how to put on PURE muscle and also how to use it in the cage instead of just the weight room. Overeem at some point was the size of Chuck Liddel and now he is the size of a small gorrila. He would probably give him some of his Horse Meat to help him build muscle. 

Overeem really is an interesting fighter in the HW division. I think except for Fedor,Brock and CroCop, Overeem must be the HW im most interested in seein fight in the UFC. (I know CroCop isnt relevant.. but i still get goosebumps watching him fight)


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

I can't say for sure until he actually fights real fighters. Rogers has 1 good win in his career and was Overeem's biggest test in years. Guys can look like beasts, look to have great technique, but that all changes when you get in the cage with a guy who is at the level or higher than you are. 

Until he fights real guys for a change I'm not going to act like I know where he stands.


----------



## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

I think Overeem would do well in the UFC, but beating Rogers doesn't tell me anything, especially considering he beat Rogers on the ground. Not that he wasn't dominating the stand up as well, but the only thing Rogers can do off his back is take a nap. Overeem isn't ground bullying the UFC HW elites.

Good performance by Overeem though.


----------



## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I can't say for sure until he actually fights real fighters. Rogers has 1 good win in his career and was Overeem's biggest test in years. Guys can look like beasts, look to have great technique, but that all changes when you get in the cage with a guy who is at the level or higher than you are.
> 
> Until he fights real guys for a change I'm not going to act like I know where he stands.


I've got to wonder how many fights of Overeem you've seen, he's fought and beat some of the best fighters in Dream, Pride and K1. I'd love to see how some of your favs would fair against Badr Hari,Semy Schilts, Peter Aerts in his prime and any number of the Japanese fighters.


----------



## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Overeem might not do as well as i first thought he would. Im thinking about that CroCop fight and even though its fair to say Overeem was winning that fight its also pushing it when you say that he totally dominated CroCop. I dont think i saw CroCop in any danger in that fight except for the nut shots. Now looking back at how JDS laid a beating on CroCop it kind of surprises me. Then when i think what guys like Brock,Carwin,Cain would do to CroCop it makes Overeems performance that much less spectacular. I guess at the end of the day its hard to say how well he will do unless he does it. Personally i think Overeem is one of the bigger hit or miss fighters that you really dont know what your getting with him when he enters the cage,
> 
> He has great kickboxing skills.. especially for a guy his size. I personally think in K-1 Speed>Strenght but he still does great.
> 
> ...


Very well said.


----------



## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Overeem would be top five at least.


----------



## astrallite (Mar 14, 2010)

If you take the record of the K-1 fighters Alistair Overeem has fought, the average opponent he has defeated is 57-13 (81.4%).

Overeem is easily the best striker in the HW division...JDS has no chance. Overeem lost to Shogun and Liddell in their hayday. No shame in that. Shogun won the OPEN WEIGHT GRAND PRIX in Pride; he kicked everyone's asses. People talk like "oh he lost to some LHWs..."


----------



## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Since when did Overeem become this amazing K-1 fighter?

First of all, he has 44 MMA fights compared to his 10 K-1 fights. He went 6-4 in K-1 with his only notable wins over Teixeria, Hari in which he got KO'd in their rematch, and a way past his prime Peter Aerts. Every loss he has is by KO/TKO.

Now, I'm not saying he's bad. He has some good potential. But, he's not an elite K-1 striker. He became over hyped after he KO'd Hari.

He does have great MMA potential though. But I'm not gonna jump to conclusions about how he'd fare in the UFC until I see his TDD and guard. Beating Brett Rogers isn't much of an accomplishment to me.


----------



## CTRusheMMA (Jan 8, 2010)

I have to say that his fight against brett was really impressive alot more so than fedor.Id love to see Ubereem in the UFC his striking is superior to everyone bar JDS and hes got good all round skills. There so many interesting match ups for him if he ever did go to the UFC but he prob wont cause he wants to continue with his K-1 career. Ill admit i am an overeem fan but he still has alot to do to prove the critics wrong but that performance was a perfect way to shut them up for awhile.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

dave-stjohn said:


> I've got to wonder how many fights of Overeem you've seen, he's fought and beat some of the best fighters in Dream, Pride and K1. I'd love to see how some of your favs would fair against Badr Hari,Semy Schilts, Peter Aerts in his prime and any number of the Japanese fighters.


Why are you talking about K-1? It is like comparing a boxing record to an MMA fight. It has almost nothing to do with it. 

I'll let you rattle off some of the beasts he has beat in MMA. Because honestly I can't. For God's sakes, he has been fights guys such as James Thompson who lost to Kimbo Slice, how is that ANY indication of how he matches up with the best in the world? We are still talking MMA right? This is an MMA forum isn't it? I'm confused.


----------



## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...He would do alright. Top 5, don't think so. He has great striking but I couldn't see him getting past Carwin, Lesnar, Cain, Dos Santos & Mir. They all have better chins and a wrestling pedigree. That's pretty much the top of the heap...

P.S. Nice Pride memory--- When Liddell stoned Overeem making his eye's cross then dropped him like a sack of potatos...lol!


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

I think most of you guys a remember the old overeem, today's overeem legit or roids is a monster. Last time I saw Ovreem in a legit fight it was against shogun...years later he looks like a monster. Plus he does have the ability to beat any ufc HW. You guys don't know what he has been doing in the last two years. Fighters do get better, I'm not gonig to jump the gun and say he would destroy UFc HW's as he has not fought a legit named fighter in 2 years. But the man does have experience,size,and skills to do some heavy damage in the ufc.


----------



## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Why are you talking about K-1? It is like comparing a boxing record to an MMA fight. It has almost nothing to do with it.
> 
> I'll let you rattle off some of the beasts he has beat in MMA. Because honestly I can't. For God's sakes, he has been fights guys such as James Thompson who lost to Kimbo Slice, how is that ANY indication of how he matches up with the best in the world? We are still talking MMA right? This is an MMA forum isn't it? I'm confused.


The striking aspect of K1 is very pertinent to the UFC as is his outstanding Muay Thai. We'll never know how good he is unless Dana signs, I'd love to see him fight just about any of the UFC HW's, win or lose I think they'd be good fights. I must agree with you that fighting people like Thompson does nothing for your cred, but look at a lot of the tools Fedor has fought, yes a couple of former UFC champs but they were past their prime, especially Tim Silvia.


----------



## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

Good God man, looks like he stuck an airhose in his belly button and stopped at 55 psi.


----------



## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I'll let you rattle off some of the beasts he has beat in MMA. Because honestly I can't.


He's defeated Sergi Kharinotov and Vitor Belfort.. they're not too shabby.


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Overeem didn't ragdoll Rogers, Rogers slipped and performed piss poor because he was gun shy. Just like every man the fight after Fedor stole his soul by knocking his head into the audience. 

For that very reason, I don't weigh Rogers win over Arlovski and Mercer's win over Sylvia ... these were guys that were basically in a depression after getting tooled by Fedor. It was their worst form ever.

As far as Overeeem goes, he would get outwrestled by Brock, Carwin and Velasquez in a heartbeat... he never had great TDD and his kickboxing stance lends itself to being taken down. He's only looking good facing standup fighters in SF... I doubt Overeem's PhD in Guillotine gives him better subs that Mir, and he'd get pounded out.


----------



## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

I hate Cain and I hate Brock, but I hope someone gets chance to rip Cains arm off and take it home. JDS all the way as far as the future of the division I hope. Guys scary.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

dave-stjohn said:


> The striking aspect of K1 is very pertinent to the UFC as is his outstanding Muay Thai. We'll never know how good he is unless Dana signs, I'd love to see him fight just about any of the UFC HW's, win or lose I think they'd be good fights. I must agree with you that fighting people like Thompson does nothing for your cred, but look at a lot of the tools Fedor has fought, yes a couple of former UFC champs but they were past their prime, especially Tim Silvia.


I agree, Fedor has fought tools and it counts. He is perhaps not the best HW in the world if he keeps fighting B level HWs (Werdum is a step down). But at least he has fought and beat the best for a long time. Overeem has fought some good fighters back in the day, most all of whom he lost to. We can't translate his frame and body (however he was able to obtain it) into good MMA fighter. Rogers has 1 good win in his career and that was Overeem's best test in years of MMA. To all of a sudden claim he could hang with the best in an MMA FIGHT is quite soon.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

_RIVAL_ said:


> He's defeated Sergi Kharinotov and Vitor Belfort.. they're not too shabby.


And beating Sergi and basically a small LHW means he can hang with the best HWs? Good God, wake up and make sense.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Like it was said. He will do well against strikers. He will KO some guys standing and get KO'd a couple times (Fedor will). But give him Lesnar, Cain, or Carwin? He will get taken down in 1 minute, controlled, and Pounded out or end of round and controlled all over again. Here is a good homework assignment for anyone who wants it, go find a good wrestler Overeem has fought or beat. Fujita was coming off 2 losses, is 39 years old, and has a 15-9 career record, he is hardly a good wrestler/fighter. I'm talking about a wrestler, who was a worthy opponent, not a guy coming off 2 straight losses.

Lets look a a relevant list of Overeem's opponents. That means when he has fought at HW and recently since he some how got a freak body. 

Rogers - toughest test in years, has 1 good win in career vs. a fading AA.

Fujita- has lost 5 of his last 7 fights. Period. 

james Thompson - lost to Kimbo Slice.

Tony Sylvester - good record vs. bums. Lost to Chris Tauchscherer 2 years ago, a gut that is currently at the bottom of all UFC HWs.

Gary Goodridge - is 23-22 in MMA. Has lost his last 6. Lost last 3 before he fought Overeem, why did Overeem even fight him? Then Mousasi fought him after 4 straight losses...why? Why do all these SF "stars" fight guys coming off 3-4 straight losses. I would be embarrassed to put on a show like this. Guess they have no pride.

Mark Hunt - lost his last 5 MMA fights.

Lee Tae-Hyun - had 2 fights before fighting Overeem.

Paul Buentello - was terrible in UFC level competition. He is out of the UFC not even worthy of a spot. This was to win teh SF title, hahaha.

Sergei Kharitonov - Overeem lost in a 1st round KO. Overeem beat him earlier in his career.


Wow, what a list he has going. I WOULD BE EMBARRASSED!!! Not only is he fighting below average fighters, but most all of them were coming off 2 or 3 straight losses before he fought them. What kind of circus is this? This is not only sad, but disgusting. He has proven close to nothing at HW, other than he can beat cans and Rogers...oh and he has a freak body. Big whoop. Wake me up when he fights a guy that at least won his previous fight....what a joke.


----------



## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Lost to Chris Tauchscherer 2 years ago, *a gut* that is currently at the bottom of all UFC HWs.



Although a typo, this is an accurate description.


----------



## Jammy-Jae (Aug 31, 2009)

i think overeem would be a huge contender for the UFC heavyweight title!

if i was Dana i would be keeping tabs on him and try and bring him into the UFC after 'the reem' faces Fedor...

i think he has all the tools to challenge the Mir's, Lesnar's, Velasquez's & Carwin's of the MMA world providing Dana and co offer the right contract for him!

i can't wait for Fedor/Overeem man! - what a contest that could turn out to be...

it will be the biggest non-UFC fight to take place in a long while...


----------



## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

Jammy-Jae said:


> i think overeem would be a huge contender for the UFC heavyweight title!
> 
> if i was Dana i would be keeping tabs on him and try and bring him into the UFC after 'the reem' faces Fedor...
> 
> ...


I would just about bet the farm that Fedor never fights Overeem, case in point, why did the Strikeforce champ fight the guy that lost to Fedor? Seems to me the WAMMA champ would fight the Strikeforce champ.


----------



## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Like it was said. He will do well against strikers. He will KO some guys standing and get KO'd a couple times (Fedor will). But give him Lesnar, Cain, or Carwin? He will get taken down in 1 minute, controlled, and Pounded out or end of round and controlled all over again. Here is a good homework assignment for anyone who wants it, go find a good wrestler Overeem has fought or beat. Fujita was coming off 2 losses, is 39 years old, and has a 15-9 career record, he is hardly a good wrestler/fighter. I'm talking about a wrestler, who was a worthy opponent, not a guy coming off 2 straight losses.
> 
> Lets look a a relevant list of Overeem's opponents. That means when he has fought at HW and recently since he some how got a freak body.
> 
> ...


Sounds pretty much like Fedor's record.


----------



## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I agree, Fedor has fought tools and it counts. He is perhaps not the best HW in the world if he keeps fighting B level HWs (Werdum is a step down). But at least he has fought and beat the best for a long time. Overeem has fought some good fighters back in the day, most all of whom he lost to. We can't translate his frame and body (however he was able to obtain it) into good MMA fighter. Rogers has 1 good win in his career and that was Overeem's best test in years of MMA. To all of a sudden claim he could hang with the best in an MMA FIGHT is quite soon.


I get what you're saying and also the person who said you never know for sure which Alistair you're going to get. I know his chin is suspect, but I'm sticking with my firts post in saying that I would love to see him fight in the UFC against any of the top 5 HW's and with that it would settle this. I would like to see the same with Fedor, because I think any of the top 5 UFC HW's would beat him.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

dave-stjohn said:


> Sounds pretty much like Fedor's record.


If you are serious, I cannot have an argument with you because you clearly are clueless. I agree Fedor has had a stretch where he fought bums, but Werdum who he is facing would be Overeems toughest fight in years. Werdum, Rogers, and AA are better than Rogers, Fujita, and James Thompson...sorry. Plus Fedor has actually fought at HW and beat the best at the time for a long time. 

He has faded with his fights as well, which is why I question his undisputed #1 overall HW ranking, but at least he has a resume. Overeem does not. Everyone runs to his K-1 record because they cannot back him up with his MMA record, but factually he is 6-4 in K-1, which is no spectacular record at all.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

dave-stjohn said:


> I get what you're saying and also the person who said you never know for sure which Alistair you're going to get. I know his chin is suspect, but I'm sticking with my firts post in saying that I would love to see him fight in the UFC against any of the top 5 HW's and with that it would settle this. I would like to see the same with Fedor, because I think any of the top 5 UFC HW's would beat him.


I don't discount the guy at all. I think he could come into the UFC and fight the top guys. But to say he would beat them and be a threat to the belt is a little soon. Maybe he would, maybe he would not, but I see nothing that he has done that makes me think he could. If he fights Fedor and beats him then he has convinced me, but that is no given at all.

I guess the world has changed into a "next best thing" where everyone is in love with the last thing they have seen. I tend to like to see guys prove their worth before claiming they are on any level. And to be Frank, Overeem's MMA record is not only filled with bums, but it is an embarrassment. People wonder why people write off DREAM and organizations such as DREAM in Japan, well it is because they give you Overeem vs. guys with several straight losses. If a guy loses 3 straight times he is out of the UFC, let alone fighting the best the organization has to offer. The definition of Bush League.


----------



## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Well, beating Rogers, particularly off his back doesn't prove much. Overeem wouldn't ground bully or even toss to the ground Lesnar, Carwin, Cain or JDS. Certainly Overeem would do well standing, but the UFC HW elite consist primarily of strong wrestlers. Overeem has good Jits, but his wrestling is suspect, especially after spending so much time in Japan, where wrestling is particularly weak.

I think the size of Rogers' opponents plays a big part on Rogers confidence. He looked scared as hell in that ring against someone his own size & strength (Allister). Rogers looked more confident and fought more confidently against Fedor, a much smaller opponent.

It looked to me like Rogers first began to crumble even further after Allisters initial kick and especially after the second kick. I think that shook his confidence off the shelf. Rogers probably feels confident against punchers, but after Allister landed a few leg kicks, Rogers broke and looked for the ground and curled up. Rogers also couldnt handle Allisters weight on top of him and got bullied. This is where the UFC HW would be different. I think only JDS could challenge Allister on the feet, but the wrestling pedigree of Cain, Lesnar and Carwin wouldn't have let them get man-raped on the ground or even taken to the ground as Rogers was.

I think Allister does good no matter where he goes, but I don't think beating Rogers has any indication as to how well he would do in the UFC. A strikers bane is a good wrestler. I think Allister is a complete MMA'ist, as in striking and subs, but wrestling is a separate category.

True Fedor got rattled by Rogers, but again, I think it was a match-up specific situation. Rogers is a good puncher and optimal when confident and Fedor punched with him. I also think Rogers is a good puncher in a specific range, "only," and Fedor was in that range. Rogers couldn't establish any kind of distance with Allister because Rogers couldn't get in his specific range, which is why I think the kick not only broke his confidence in that sense, but it probably hurt bad as hell.

Rogers entire time on the ground, looked like the last ten seconds of a round survival mode, which is do nothing, just curl and try to live out the remaining seconds, only it was the middle of the round. Allister isn't getting that from any UFC elites.

I think Allister could easily be top 4-5, I'm just not on any kind of band wagon that says the UFC HW division could be "ran through," by anyone. Any of the top guys could beat each other by a single slip and a straight right makes contact. Having a chin or not in the the UFC HW division is almost irrelevant, because a human chin is only so strong, even at the higher echelon. If you get hit flush by any top HW guy, you're going down. Your chin might determine how long you sleep for, but you're taking a nap either way.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

VolcomX311 said:


> Well, beating Rogers, particularly off his back doesn't prove much. Overeem wouldn't ground bully or even toss to the ground Lesnar, Carwin, Cain or JDS. Certainly Overeem would do well standing, but the UFC HW elite consist primarily of strong wrestlers. Overeem has good Jits, but his wrestling is suspect, especially after spending so much time in Japan, where wrestling is particularly weak.
> 
> I think the size of Rogers' opponents plays a big part on Rogers confidence. He looked scared as hell in that ring against someone his own size & strength (Allister). Rogers looked more confident and fought more confidently against Fedor, a much smaller opponent.
> 
> ...


Good Post. To sum it all up Overeem needs to do more to prove his worth. I just don't see anyone in the SF organization that would prove that much besides Fedor.


----------



## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

rushStPierre said:


> The Overeem of tonight would beat Brock hands down. There's just nobody with that size that has that much skill. K1-level striker with the ability to submit his opponents and I don't believe Brock would have a strength advantage either. He just tooled a 280lb Rogers like a ragdoll.
> 
> I almost want to see Overeem in the UFC more than Fedor now. Hopefully hes done with the whole K1 thing.


:thumbsup:


----------



## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

VolcomX311 said:


> Well, beating Rogers, particularly off his back doesn't prove much. Overeem wouldn't ground bully or even toss to the ground Lesnar, Carwin, Cain or JDS. Certainly Overeem would do well standing, but the UFC HW elite consist primarily of strong wrestlers. Overeem has good Jits, but his wrestling is suspect, especially after spending so much time in Japan, where wrestling is particularly weak.
> 
> I think the size of Rogers' opponents plays a big part on Rogers confidence. He looked scared as hell in that ring against someone his own size & strength (Allister). Rogers looked more confident and fought more confidently against Fedor, a much smaller opponent.
> 
> ...


This is very true.. In order for Overeem to be EXTREMELY sucessful in the ufc.. He would have to switch up his camp to the states or take some wrestlers home with him.. The effects of being grinded into a cage nonstop is sadly over looked by many.. But Im not to sure that Cain and JDS have the strength to do this a whole 3 rds with him. But hey I also think Jds is overrated and Im still not sold on Cain.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

ZENKI1 said:


> This is very true.. In order for Overeem to be EXTREMELY sucessful in the ufc.. He would have to switch up his camp to the states or take some wrestlers home with him.. The effects of being grinded into a cage nonstop is sadly over looked by many.. But Im not to sure that Cain and JDS have the strength to do this a whole 3 rds with him. But hey I also think Jds is overrated and Im still not sold on Cain.


So Cain beats, Big Nog, Rothwell, Kongo

JDS beats: Werdum, Cro Cop, Yvel, Gonzaga

And you are not sold on them but are sold on Overeem because????


----------



## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

Vitor Belfort twice Kharitonov Zentsov, igor vovchanchyn maybe heard of? But i guess when the fighters are not hyped enough you wount count that as a win, it was probably a can like for exemple Atajev

plus another 40 MMA wins is not enough? 


stop discrediting Overeem, he even knocked out Badr Hari


----------



## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Overeem has been around the MMA scene for a New York minute for sure.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Rusko said:


> Vitor Belfort twice Kharitonov Zentsov, igor vovchanchyn maybe heard of? But i guess when the fighters are not hyped enough you wount count that as a win, it was probably a can like for exemple Atajev
> 
> plus another 40 MMA wins is not enough?
> 
> ...


Which of whom are big strong wrestlers? None. He has very few decent wins in Heavyweight MMA. MMA is not K-1.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Rusko said:


> Vitor Belfort twice Kharitonov Zentsov, igor vovchanchyn maybe heard of? But i guess when the fighters are not hyped enough you wount count that as a win, it was probably a can like for exemple Atajev
> 
> plus another 40 MMA wins is not enough?
> 
> ...


Vitor Belfort in '05 and '06. Sergei in '06. Igor in '05.

Since then he has lost to Sergei in their rematch, lost to every top ten fighter he has fought - Shogun, Little Nog, Werdum, Arona -, and beaten a who's who list of nobodies. His last credible mma victory was over Belfort in a horrible performance on both of their parts. Since then he has beaten no one of any skill or repute. 

Buentello? Hunt? Goodridge? Thompson? Fujita? Rogers? All of these would have been good wins if mma had never evolved past the point it was at ten years ago.

Yes he did knock out Badr Hari but that victory was horribly avenged by Badr. 

Let's look at his losses clinically. 6 of his 11 losses are by ko or tko. 3 of his 4 K-1 losses have been ko or tko. His last 4 losses in mma have all been ko, tko, or submission due to strikes. It doesn't speak well for his ability to take the kind of punishment he dishes out.

Let's be reasonable about him here. His mma record has a few impressive victories but it is extremely padded with people who should not be fighting. The last 8 victories of his have been horrible. Horrible opponents that he should be ashamed that he even fought at this point in his career.

Admittedly before the streak of cans he had lost 4 of his last 6 fights. One to the guy Fedor is probably going to destroy in his next fight. 

If he can keep this kind of dominating performance against credible opponents I will support him in a run for UFC gold but right now I think he'd get stopped and get stopped hard.

JDS is a kickboxing champion as well with an 18-0 record. Has finished 10 of his 11 victories in the first round and they have an opponent in common. Cro Cop. Let's compare the two fights shall we as they were both relatively recent.

JDS dominated for 3 rounds. Without a question. Just straight up dominated Cro Cop in the stand up. Never even had a moment of trouble.

Overeem wanted nothing to do with Cro Cop's stand up. At all. Every chance he could he went straight for the clinch or the takedown. Decent game plan but it shows a weakness. He doesn't want to strike with other powerful kickboxers if he can avoid it. 

This fight would probably go to JDS.

Carwin is an interesting proposition for a fight here. He has good wrestling credentials but he doesn't like to use them. He prefers the big knock out. He's a heavyweight Dan Henderson without the granite chin. A good chin maybe but not Dan's freakin' chin. Prefers striking but is slow. 

I'd probably go with Overeem on this one. He's hard to muscle around and much quicker than Carwin. Of course Mister Robo Punch 2000 - god Carwin is stiff when he strikes - could land that one punch.

Cain and Lesnar both present much the same problem to Overeem. While he is a better striker than either of them - one more so than the other - they are both very quick of the takedown and very good at them. Standing he wins. On his back ...not so much.

I'd have to go with Cain or Lesnar on this one. My only worry with Cain is that he tends to leave himself open when he goes for the td and Overeen could take advantage of that.

But I think they'd all be good fights. I'm just not sold on him winning UFC gold.


----------



## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> If you are serious, I cannot have an argument with you because you clearly are clueless. I agree Fedor has had a stretch where he fought bums, but Werdum who he is facing would be Overeems toughest fight in years. Werdum, Rogers, and AA are better than Rogers, Fujita, and James Thompson...sorry. Plus Fedor has actually fought at HW and beat the best at the time for a long time.
> 
> He has faded with his fights as well, which is why I question his undisputed #1 overall HW ranking, but at least he has a resume. Overeem does not. Everyone runs to his K-1 record because they cannot back him up with his MMA record, but factually he is 6-4 in K-1, which is no spectacular record at all.


I agree with you about Werdum, but I'm sticking to my guns on the Fedor issue. He's hiding behind his M1 connection, he's fought a guy that up until about 2 years ago was changing tires for a living, then there's 2 fights against Hungman Choi, then Tim Sylvia that even though he's a two time UFC champ he was past his prime. The Arlovski was a legit challenge that he was realistacly losing to until that awesome one punch knockout. But who has he fought in the last 3 years that could beat any of the top 10 UFC HW's let alone the top 5? Don't get mad at me and flame me, I'm just trying to have an intelligent conversation, I'm not afraid of admitting I'm wrong if you can answer my last question with facts. I don't think Fedor could stand more then a round with any of the top 5 UFC HW's.


----------



## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

VolcomX311 said:


> Well, beating Rogers, particularly off his back doesn't prove much. Overeem wouldn't ground bully or even toss to the ground Lesnar, Carwin, Cain or JDS. Certainly Overeem would do well standing, but the UFC HW elite consist primarily of strong wrestlers. Overeem has good Jits, but his wrestling is suspect, especially after spending so much time in Japan, where wrestling is particularly weak.
> 
> I think the size of Rogers' opponents plays a big part on Rogers confidence. He looked scared as hell in that ring against someone his own size & strength (Allister). Rogers looked more confident and fought more confidently against Fedor, a much smaller opponent.
> 
> ...


Very well said, I like they way you back it up with the facts, instead of just man love for your fav fighter. Either outcome withstanding, I'd love to see Overeem come to the UFC and see what he can do.


----------



## mtt_c (Jun 15, 2008)

He would beat alot of UFC ass. make Lesnar look like a wrestler and then rage against Dana...who wouldfinally defeat Overeem.

Shonuff!


----------



## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Which of whom are big strong wrestlers? None. He has very few decent wins in Heavyweight MMA. MMA is not K-1.


Your willing to give wrestling credit in the mma world but world class striking your not.. I dont get it. :confused02:



deadmanshand said:


> Let's be reasonable about him here. His mma record has a few impressive victories but it is extremely padded with people who should not be fighting. The last 8 victories of his have been horrible. Horrible opponents that he should be ashamed that he even fought at this point in his career.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There comes a point in time no matter what org a fighter is in but the depth of talent faced can be argued worthless and unworthy .I could be here all day pointing out unworthy op ufc champs have faced. 

JDS kickboxing record is bs. It wasnt like it was against world class top of the food chain k-1 . In fact if ya google it you cant even find anything on it... Hell Wiki doesnt even have it posted nore does it show what org or anything this was achieved in. 

As for Cro-Cop. That arguement is bs to. Cro is only in the ufc off his past accomplishments nothing from current date.Hes a big draw for the euro crowd which the ufc needs to get in lock.The man also has extreme troubles with cage control. And in fact Cro looked better against JDS then he had in his previous ufc bouts. 

AO vs Cro. Was a mma bout in a ring not a cage so AO taking the fight where he felt best was a damn smart move . 

Jus one more lil note.. The losing streak of AO was also before the his drastic size change. That losing streak is what set AO off on changing himself. 

Dont get me completely wrong .. I dont think AO is the greatest thing . I jus feel hes being discredited and deserves more credit then he is recieving. I think that if this mminute he was to sign with the UFC and come in and fight a can like Rodgers and had the same fight as he jus had performance wise everyone would be on his nuts screaming how great he is. But since it was in Strikeforce everyone tries to shit on him..


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Hey guys...seriously. 
Why are some of you talking about Overeem's losses to Lil Nog, Shogun or Arona?!?!! Those don't count anymore imo.
For the simple fact that Overeem isn't the same fighter anymore, and it's not because he has improved his game, but because he is another human being, phisicaly speaking. Comm'on: back then he was a LHW, tall and skinny. Look at him now. He is a monster compared to the Overeem from back then. He is 50 pounds heavier and much much stronger.
The Overeem from these days would murder the Overeem from then.
Just look at the difference between the 2 Overeems.
It's a no brainer...


----------



## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

ZENKI1 said:


> Your willing to give wrestling credit in the mma world but world class striking your not.. I dont get it. :confused02:
> 
> 
> There comes a point in time no matter what org a fighter is in but the depth of talent faced can be argued worthless and unworthy .I could be here all day pointing out unworthy op ufc champs have faced.
> ...


Thanks for being able to put into words what I've been trying to say but haven't(I must be spazzing). I would love to see him in the UFC just to see what he could do.


----------

