# Tired Of St-Pierre



## bogey_j (Jul 5, 2010)

tired of paying for his fights hoping something surprises me. same ol' george. all his fights look the same. not even trying to finish. "reactive not proactive" is fitting. i'm done. i'm DONE with him


----------



## mo25 (Feb 7, 2011)

bogey_j said:


> tired of paying for his fights hoping something surprises me. same ol' george. all his fights look the same. not even trying to finish. "reactive not proactive" is fitting. i'm done. i'm DONE with him


Agreed, possibly one of the most boring champions ever in mma history and one of the most boring fighters as well.

I was rooting for Diaz hard but after that first round where Nick became a turtle I was hoping GSP would KO him.


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

I don't understand people who expect anything different. This is what GSP does. It's like buying a Taylor Swift album expecting some heavy metal. 
I find GSP to be fun to watch because seeing fighters against him is like watching them try to solve a puzzle for the ultimate fighter. And he really doesnt lay n pray, he's pretty active on the ground going for strikes and submissions occasionally.


----------



## mo25 (Feb 7, 2011)

I blame Matt Serra.


----------



## Ludinator (Mar 15, 2012)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> I don't understand people who expect anything different. This is what GSP does. It's like buying a Taylor Swift album expecting some heavy metal.
> I find GSP to be fun to watch because seeing fighters against him is like watching them try to solve a puzzle for the ultimate fighter. And he really doesnt lay n pray, he's pretty active on the ground going for strikes and submissions occasionally.


But if Taylor Swift says its going to be heavy metal and you bought it and it wernt would you be pissed?. George often promises stuff and never delivers, he never fights to finish, there's never a risk. Gsp often gets in positions that would allow him to finish and then still plays it safe.


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

Ludinator said:


> But if Taylor Swift says its going to be heavy metal and you bought it and it wernt would you be pissed?. George often promises stuff and never delivers, he never fights to finish, there's never a risk. Gsp often gets in positions that would allow him to finish and then still plays it safe.


That's a fair argument but I never take anything any fighter says pre-fight seriously at all, so you fans kind of have to blame yourselves for buying into what you know is marketing hype. Hype is meant to fool casual fans, but everybody on these forums should know better by now.


----------



## FatFreeMilk (Jan 22, 2010)

Ludinator said:


> But if Taylor Swift says its going to be heavy metal and you bought it and it wernt would you be pissed?. George often promises stuff and never delivers, he never fights to finish, there's never a risk. *Gsp often gets in positions that would allow him to finish and then still plays it safe.*


:thumb03:

This is my main gripe with this champ.


----------



## Parky-RFC (Jul 6, 2010)

GSP is the best tactical fighter in MMA. You find weaknesses in your opponents skill-set and you do your best to exploit them. It's what competition is all about. That's why he's the champ and one of the greatest of all time.


----------



## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

FatFreeMilk said:


> :thumb03:
> 
> This is my main gripe with this champ.


I will 3rd this in agreement...

However...

If it meant losing a huge arse paycheck, I too would "play it safe"


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

It's more of a problem with the guys GSP's been fighting than GSP himself.

Everyone he's fought has been severely flawed in one large area where GSP is well rounded and can exploit it.

Dating back to his title win


Matt Serra(it's literally Matt Serra)

Jon Fitch (poor striker, shaky defense....one dimensional top control grappler.....beaten up standing and worn down with occasional takedowns)

BJ Penn (grease aside, BJ is a LW who's done poorly at WW which is arguably 25bs heavier than his optimal weight class)

Thiago Alves (very one dimensional...poor defensive wrestling and poor grappling in general....wrestled to death)

Dan Hardy (laughable title contender...poor in most areas...average in striking)

Josh Koscheck(one dimensional wrestler who thinks hes the second coming of Chuck Liddell. Poor striker. Poor fight IQ. 
Average jiu-jitsu. Jabbed to death while overusing overhand rights and not trying to wrestle despite ability to take GSP down)

Jake Shields (Average to poor wrestler with abysmal striking. Outstruck in boring point fight)

Carlos Condit (Best guy all around GSP has fought but severely lacking in defensive wrestling.)

Nick Diaz (Poor fight IQ...limited striker....poor defensive wrestling)




IMO Hendricks will be his most interesting challenger since he can strike and wrestle. His submission grappling isnt very good but he can scramble a bit so it's good enough. He just needs to control GSP anyway...not submit him.





Oh and the main point of this post is that I don't believe GSP "plays it safe". I believe he's not that great at any particular area in MMA. He's very good at everything. GSP was never the best wrestler in MMA...that was an extremely distorted half truth. He has the best takedown setups in MMA because he's explosive and because he sets it up so well with his strikes....he has outstanding balance and reactions so he can defend most takedowns for the most part...


But he doesn't hit particularly hard...and he doesn't have great submission acumen....so he doesn't finish fights.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

He may not be the most exciting, but he shuts people down. Say what you will of him, but he shuts people down. We can't act as though GSP didn't stand with Nick and give him plenty of time to get something going. GSP wears you down. He beats you at your own game. And he generally makes you look like a novice. He may not finish, and he may not take risks that would likely lead to him getting finishes, but he wins. And in the end, you don't retool a winning strategy. 

I always tell people who accuse GSP of lay and pray that they ought to download a few Ben Askren fights. GSP constantly throws when he's in top position, as is evidenced by his opponents typically leaving bloody and bruised (as Diaz did). He just doesn't necessarily throw the hardest. 

None of this is to say that GSP doesn't have off nights. I thought him very off tonight. It was as though he was fighting at 60%. But he still managed to beat Nick Diaz everywhere. So what do you tell a man who can run on half a tank and still make his opponents look like rookies? To change because a few punch drunk fans on the internet find him boring? C'mon.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

GSP never beats people at their own game he literally fights to his opponents weaknesses every time and has since he fought Matt Hughes the first time.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

The only fight of his I ever found boring was Hardy but - to be honest - GSP looked bored in that fight too. The rest of the time I am quite entertained by his skill, ability, and fight IQ.


----------



## Ludinator (Mar 15, 2012)

Canadian Psycho said:


> He may not be the most exciting, but he shuts people down. Say what you will of him, but he shuts people down. We can't act as though GSP didn't stand with Nick and give him plenty of time to get something going. GSP wears you down. He beats you at your own game. And he generally makes you look like a novice. He may not finish, and he may not take risks that would likely lead to him getting finishes, but he wins. And in the end, you don't retool a winning strategy.
> 
> I always tell people who accuse GSP of lay and pray that they ought to download a few Ben Askren fights. GSP constantly throws when he's in top position, as is evidenced by his opponents typically leaving bloody and bruised (as Diaz did). He just doesn't necessarily throw the hardest.
> 
> None of this is to say that GSP doesn't have off nights. I thought him very off tonight. It was as though he was fighting at 60%. But he still managed to beat Nick Diaz everywhere. So what do you tell a man who can run on half a tank and still make his opponents look like rookies? To change because a few punch drunk fans on the internet find him boring? C'mon.


Anderson Silva will change that.


----------



## Buakaw_GSP (Jan 9, 2011)

Tired of Nick Diaz, fought like wuss. Boring ass fake fighter, couldnt even get GSP in any danger and make it exciting. Carlos Condit gave GSP a great fight, Nick Diaz brought out the worse in GSP, not the best.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Ludinator said:


> Anderson Silva will change that.


I highly doubt that fight ever actually happens.


----------



## Ludinator (Mar 15, 2012)

Buakaw_GSP said:


> Tired of Nick Diaz, fought like wuss. Boring ass fake fighter, couldnt even get GSP in any danger and make it exciting. Carlos Condit gave GSP a great fight, Nick Diaz brought out the worse in GSP, not the best.


C'mon you can't blame nick for Gsp's performance, that is a typical Gsp fight. Diaz was never going to get going, it's a hard to stick to a gameplan like nick's when your always worrying about the takedown, especially Gsp's.


----------



## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Parky-RFC said:


> GSP is the best tactical fighter in MMA. You find weaknesses in your opponents skill-set and you do your best to exploit them. It's what competition is all about. That's why he's the champ and one of the greatest of all time.


This is why I like watching his fights. Every opponent poses a new problem for him, and every time he finds a way to shut them down and exploit them. Sometimes it goes exactly the way you'd think, sometimes, like tonight, it's unexpected. Lots of people said that GSP wouldn't use the takedowns because of Diaz's ground game, but he did, and not only that he shut him down there and beat him up on the ground. Other than Bendo, no one has done that to a Diaz.


----------



## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

If you were excited for this fight and got let down, it's your own fault. GSP was in it. It was bound to suck from the beginning.


----------



## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

I love watching GSP, his fight IQ is off the charts. I love watching him pick apart his opponents and the fact that he hasn't finished in a long time really isn't an issue for me.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Ludinator said:


> C'mon you can't blame nick for Gsp's performance, that is a typical Gsp fight. Diaz was never going to get going, it's a hard to stick to a gameplan like nick's when your always worrying about the takedown, especially Gsp's.


lol, what a load of bollocks. Of course we can blame Nick. He knew exactly what GSP was going to come in and do. We all did. And Nick failed miserably to stop it, perhaps more so than anyone since Dan Hardy. 

Frankly, I don't see why blame need be apportioned to anyone. This wasn't a boring fight. And it had a little bit of everything, from grappling, to striking, to clinch work. This wasn't lay and pray. This wasn't hugging.


----------



## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> He may not be the most exciting, but he shuts people down. Say what you will of him, but he shuts people down. We can't act as though GSP didn't stand with Nick and give him plenty of time to get something going. GSP wears you down. He beats you at your own game. And he generally makes you look like a novice. He may not finish, and he may not take risks that would likely lead to him getting finishes, but he wins. And in the end, you don't retool a winning strategy.
> 
> I always tell people who accuse GSP of lay and pray that they ought to download a few Ben Askren fights. GSP constantly throws when he's in top position, as is evidenced by his opponents typically leaving bloody and bruised (as Diaz did). He just doesn't necessarily throw the hardest.
> 
> None of this is to say that GSP doesn't have off nights. I thought him very off tonight. It was as though he was fighting at 60%. But he still managed to beat Nick Diaz everywhere. So what do you tell a man who can run on half a tank and still make his opponents look like rookies? To change because a few punch drunk fans on the internet find him boring? C'mon.





Roflcopter said:


> GSP never beats people at their own game he literally fights to his opponents weaknesses every time and has since he fought Matt Hughes the first time.


Put these 2 posts together, and I agree 1000%.

GSP is awesome & not boring at all to me. He's simply the best at tactical fighting. I love it.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

GSP and Anderson will happen if both guys want to cash out at the same time.


Same with Manny-Mayweather


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> GSP and Anderson will happen if both guys want to cash out at the same time.
> 
> 
> Same with Manny-Mayweather


That's the only time I see it happening - when GSP is ready to retire and cares a little less about winning or losing.


----------



## Ludinator (Mar 15, 2012)

Canadian Psycho said:


> lol, what a load of bollocks. Of course we can blame Nick. He knew exactly what GSP was going to come in and do. We all did. And Nick failed miserably to stop it, perhaps more so than anyone since Dan Hardy.
> 
> Frankly, I don't see why blame need be apportioned to anyone. This wasn't a boring fight. And it had a little bit of everything, from grappling, to striking, to clinch work. This wasn't lay and pray. This wasn't hugging.


How can you blame Nick when all Gsp's fights look like that ?. I agree I wernt bored by the fight either and the result doesn't bother me. I was just clearly stating that it wasn't Nick's fault for Gsp's poor performance as someone stated. The fight was always going to be that way.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Ludinator said:


> How can you blame Nick when all Gsp's fights look like that ?. I agree I wernt bored by the fight either and the result doesn't bother me. I was just clearly stating that it wasn't Nick's fault for Gsp's poor performance as someone stated. The fight was always going to be that way.


Fair enough. But I feel as though GSP looks his best when people actually push him. Carlos pushed GSP and was in offensive mode the entire fight, even when on his back. This caused GSP to work, work, and work some more. Nick didn't seem to be too confident in himself. He didn't come in and throw down. Nor did he work from his back all that much. He said that no matter where the fight took place, he'd be in GSP's face. And he wasn't. 

Though I personally agree that St. Pierre was fighting at about 60% from round 3 onward.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Im interested in GSP-Hendricks and GSP-Condit 2.

I find myself becoming a HUGE Carlos Condit fan. The guy is just awesome to watch. And near the end of the fight he knew he was behind and he tried hard to get the finish. Alot of the time i am stuck screaming at the screen for the guy to throw cause the fight is almost over but they never do and the fight ends and they lose. Carlos on the other hand really tried hard. Much respect.


----------



## AlexZ (Sep 14, 2007)

I love watching the human blanket :sarcastic12:



Yes GSP controlled Nick on the ground but Diaz was never put in a dangerous position. Nick risked taking shots just to dish some out and actually hurt GSP in the 3rd. Hope Hendricks knock him out.


----------



## Crester (Apr 5, 2009)

I admit I wish GSP would finish... but that's how he fights and it's up to his opponent to find a way to beat him.

He did lay on Nick this fight... but atleast he was active and causing damage.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

A little more than half of the fight was spent standing up. And when GSP was on top, he threw knees, elbows, constantly switched position, etc. Do people honestly know what it means to lie on or blanket someone?

Ronny Markes is a prime example of true lay and pray. Learn the lingo, people.


----------



## AlexZ (Sep 14, 2007)

Crester said:


> I admit I wish GSP would finish... but that's how he fights and it's up to his opponent to find a way to beat him.
> 
> He did lay on Nick this fight... but atleast he was active and causing damage.


that is true, wish Diaz could have done better off his back. 

My main issue with GSP is that he has the skills and talent to finish fights but will never take the risk. I blame greg jackson camp.


----------



## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> A little more than half of the fight was spent standing up. And when GSP was on top, he threw knees, elbows, constantly switched position, etc. Do people honestly know what it means to lie on or blanket someone?
> 
> Ronny Markes is a prime example of true lay and pray. Learn the lingo, people.


Don't post truth when haters are hating - ruins the mood.


----------



## bogey_j (Jul 5, 2010)

AlexZ said:


> that is true, wish Diaz could have done better off his back.
> 
> My main issue with GSP is that he has the skills and talent to finish fights but will never take the risk. *I blame greg jackson camp.*


they stopped cornering GSP a while ago. this is all Firas Zahabi


----------



## JWP (Jun 4, 2007)

yeh dont hate him for it, but it is why i dont buy his ppv's

i really like diaz but still didnt buy it because i thought it would be the same

soooooooooo many fighters in the ufc id rather watch


----------



## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Gsp doesn't even hammer fist when he has side control on the back...


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Diaz should've brought the fight to GSP. Condit did so and the fight was amazing.


----------



## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Im a fan of GSP. Not a massive hardcore fan, but a fan none the less.

I'm starting to realise that The only fight of his ive enjoyed in recent memory was the Condit fight. Every other fight, i think ive just enjoyed the fact that he's beaten fighters i dont particularly like (Diaz, Kos, Shields etc).

I dunno, He's a great champion but I think I might be done, Constant promises of beatings and finishes that not only never arrive, but given the opportunities he NEVER takes to finish. And I fall for the lines, every time, thinking oh what if this time, but it never comes.If anything he's fighting safer than ever.

There has to be a middle ground between fighting safe to win but also causing damage and being exciting.


----------



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

GSP is as dominating as ever. We shouldn't blame him too much for wanting to fight safe and avoid damage and injuries. If anything, it's up to the other guy to be prepared. Condit brought the fight to GSP and it was extremely exciting, Diaz didn't and hence a fight like that. Rest assured the Hendricks fight will be a good one. 

Sent from my GT-S5660 using VerticalSports.Com App


----------



## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

I'm a big St.Pierre fan, and I take the stand that if you can't stop the takedowns, then that's your problem. Georges shouldn't have to take unnecessary risks to make a fight exciting and give his opponent more of a chance to win. The Condit fight was exciting because Condit was capable of making a fight. It's like Jon Fitch, his most exciting fight was the one with Silva, because Silva made sure he posed some offence, and was content to just lay there and let Jon dominate him. Sure, Georges is no Anderson Silva, he's no Jon Jones, but he's won 11 in a row. 

I find the technicality of his style entertaining too. It's excellent to see someone that's so smart, and so scientific about his approach. No-one can stop his takedowns, no-one can find a way to stop his boxing, and his top control is excellent. Also, Georges isn't fighting for us, he's fighting because he's a competitor, and this is what he does best. Georges will be one of few combat sport athletes that are at the top of his sport, but will walk away with no major medical issues. I'm a fan, I appreciate him as an athlete, and as a man. I would rather watch certain other guys fight, but I do enjoy watching GSP fight.


----------



## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> A little more than half of the fight was spent standing up. And when GSP was on top, he threw knees, elbows, constantly switched position, etc. Do people honestly know what it means to lie on or blanket someone?
> 
> Ronny Markes is a prime example of true lay and pray. Learn the lingo, people.


It's called staying busy and playing safe, learn the lingo. GSP is an underachiever, and I think he chooses to be.


----------



## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

It feels so long ago when GSP was taking out guys like Sherk, Hughes, Heiron, and Trigg in impressive fashion. In their 3rd encounter he even made Matt Hughes say Matai. Doesn't finish anybody anymore. I feel like an old-timer for saying this but I actually miss does days.


----------



## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Not long ago the young upstart from Montreal tore through the competition with finishes. Three reasons.

1.) Greg Jackson style of fights. Holding on the belt implementing the most tactically and strategically sound game plan to take limited amount of damage.
2.) The Terror.
3.) Strangely he simply does not have the KO power even with all those muscles. It's almost like those muscles are trained to do other functions; wrestling/grappling. 

What can I say.


----------



## ProdigyPenn (Sep 9, 2011)

I agree. Like what Dana said, if you don't want wrestler to pin you down, is your job to stuff or prevent them from doing it. 

If you are a champion with skills of GSP, you will be doing exactly what he is doing. Take your opponent out of their strong confort zone and fight them where their are at their weakest. 

But yeah, it kind of bother me that GSP doesn't take (even a small) risk finish his opponent. I don't blame him against Diaz or Condit though. When was the last time those 2 guys was finished?

On a side note, I thought he would have finished Dan Hardy with that Kimura if wasn't worrying for the safety of Hardy.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

SM33 said:


> It's called staying busy and playing safe, learn the lingo. GSP is an underachiever, and I think he chooses to be.


I don't have to learn anything. I'm not the one in here making false accusations out of frustration. Not once have I said 'GSP looked like Anderson Silva in the standup' or 'that was some of the most vicious ground and pound I've ever seen'. Frankly, I've said in nearly every thread that GSP looked to be fighting at around 60%. But that doesn't change the fact that nothing GSP did last night can be considered blanketing or lay and pray. It seems most people don't actually know what that is but are content to use it to gratify themselves nonetheless. You disgruntled folk can bandy that term about all you like, but it simply isn't the case.


----------



## Ludinator (Mar 15, 2012)

Canadian Psycho said:


> I don't have to learn anything. I'm not the one in here making false accusations out of frustration. Not once have I said 'GSP looked like Anderson Silva in the standup' or 'that was some of the most vicious ground and pound I've ever seen'. Frankly, I've said in nearly every thread that GSP looked to be fighting at around 60%. But that doesn't change the fact that nothing GSP did last night can be considered blanketing or lay and pray. It seems most people don't actually know what that is but are content to use it to gratify themselves nonetheless. You disgruntled folk can bandy that term about all you like, but it simply isn't the case.


I agree he doesn't lay and pray. The problem is he gets himself in some really good positions and doesn't do anything.


----------



## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Out of these choices I'd probably have to go with he's boring as **** and i'm tired of him although my opinion is just that he's boring as ****. :thumb02:


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Ludinator said:


> I agree he doesn't lay and pray. The problem is he gets himself in some really good positions and doesn't do anything.


Now that I agree with. I actually think GSP was capable of doing some REAL damage to Diaz last night. Finishes aside, he had Nick in perfect positions for opening up cuts, etc. Georges even said he could have taken Nick's back a few times but did not want to. Comments like that bother me as well, but again, what do you tell a guy who still dominates his opponents when fighting at half capacity, sells out arenas and stadiums, and continues to shatter UFC records? A few disgruntled fans on the internet isn't going to be enough to get GSP to change his tactics, nor should it be. 

I've only ever seen GSP booed once, and that was in Toronto when it became abundantly clear that he could have finished Shields on the feet but chose not to. If the fans continue to cheer and Georges continues to have such overwhelming success, he won't change. That said, I'm also a believer that in order for GSP to have good to great fights, his opponent needs to be game (ie. Condit). Nick was not game last night, and allowed GSP to get comfortable.


----------



## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

He is boring, fights safe, etc. But he is still one of the best around and best all-time. And I will keep going out of my way to see him fight because of it, and to see him lose one day.


----------



## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

Last night he had no choice to be boring. In the 3rd round when they stood and really exchanged Diaz was really taking it to him. After that he would only punch to set up his take downs. 

Gsp is not a good stand up fighter due to his lack of confidence ...


----------



## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

Canadian Psycho said:


> nothing GSP did last night can be considered blanketing or lay and pray. It seems most people don't actually know what that is but are content to use it to gratify themselves nonetheless. You disgruntled folk can bandy that term about all you like, but it simply isn't the case.


They can see a great example of what L&P looks like by watching the Hendricks/Condit fight last night.

Don't get me wrong, it was a great fight, but when ever Hendricks took down Condit all he did was L&P. 

If I were judging that fight, during those take downs I would have been calling those take downs a draw and not counting them as scoring at all for anyone ... maybe even giving Condit a few points for doing damage in some cases.

There used to be a guide for newbies sticky thread that had information on the finer points of the sport that went beyond bar brawler style .. someone should make it a sticky again.

Even the GSP/Diaz fight, if some people didn't see a top notch GJJ practitioner trying to get into position for a sub attempt, and a great wrestler with good JJ knowledge keeping out of a bad position, all the while working his way into a good G&P position, then these people need to go sign up for a class in the MAA school for the hopelessly blind.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

He plays by the rules and uses everything to his advantage in order to just win. He doesn't care to put on a show, doesn't care as champ to show us anything new. He is boring at times. But that is the way it goes.

I'm not going to act like it is wrong to try to win. But as a fighter....I respect many more fighters present and past much more than I do GSP. I am just a fan of the opposite kinds of fighters. The SHoguns, Nogs, Hendos, Joe Lauzons, Diaz bros, Barao, Cain, JDS, Hunt, Fedor, Sakaraba, Wandy, and so on. The way they go about fighting appeals to me much more than how Georges goes about it.



Canadian Psycho said:


> Now that I agree with. I actually think GSP was capable of doing some REAL damage to Diaz last night. Finishes aside, he had Nick in perfect positions for opening up cuts, etc. Georges even said he could have taken Nick's back a few times but did not want to.


This is why it is all wolf tickets. GSP's whole persona and attitude before the fight was fake. No one should ever call for a finish from him again. He does what he does. No one again should pretend like he is some monster that can do great damage. I have never went into a title fight thinking the champion has zero chance of finishing. I felt that way last night.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

To be fair to GSP, he doesn't exactly fight 'easily finished' fighters. Was Hendricks able to finish Koscheck or Condit? Was Condit able to finish Diaz? Were Rory, Fitch, and Nick able to finish Penn? Was Maia able to finish Fitch? GSP is fighting the best in the UFC's most stacked division. Finishing at the level GSP often fights might be easier said than done. We can all sit here and judge, but at the end of the day, we're not in that cage. 

Though as I said, I do believe that GSP - at times - takes fewer risks than his skill-set permits him to. I know for a fact he could have finished Jake Shields standing, and there's simply no question that he could have submitted Dan Hardy. But again, I'm not in his position. One mistake or one risk too many could cost him his entire empire and legacy, just as it almost did against Serra. I myself like fighters who run on heart, but there's also a place for brilliant tacticians. I personally have found very few GSP fights boring - Shields and Hardy being his two worst performances, imo.


----------



## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

I have a few options for everybody complaining about GSP fights:

1) Don't watch - Everyone knows exactly whats going to happen every time. I think it's exciting, and I know I'm not alone on that. If you don't - fine. If you want "exciting finishes" go ahead and wait for Ronda Rousey to win her next fight via armbar in the first. She's clearly a better martial artist than GSP :sarcastic12:

2) Beat him - Start training, climb the ladder, and show him how it's done.

If you don't/can't do either of those things you are just guaranteeing yourself disappointment. The only thing more predictable than GSP stomping his opponents is the thousands of complaining posters.


----------



## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> He plays by the rules and uses everything to his advantage in order to just win. He doesn't care to put on a show, doesn't care as champ to show us anything new. He is boring at times. But that is the way it goes.
> 
> I'm not going to act like it is wrong to try to win. But as a fighter....I respect many more fighters present and past much more than I do GSP. I am just a fan of the opposite kinds of fighters. The SHoguns, Nogs, Hendos, Joe Lauzons, Diaz bros, Barao, Cain, JDS, Hunt, Fedor, Sakaraba, Wandy, and so on. The way they go about fighting appeals to me much more than how Georges goes about it.



I think all that says is that you like strikers and are not really much of a fan of MMA. That's fine, you are entitled to your preference, but your preference is not what I would call MMA ... most people would call it 'bare knuckle brawling'.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> To be fair to GSP, he doesn't exactly fight 'easily finished' fighters. Was Hendricks able to finish Koscheck or Condit? Was Condit able to finish Diaz? Were Rory, Fitch, and Nick able to finish Penn? Was Maia able to finish Fitch? GSP is fighting the best in the UFC's most stacked division. Finishing at the level GSP often fights might be easier said than done. We can all sit here and judge, but at the end of the day, we're not in that cage.
> 
> Though as I said, I do believe that GSP - at times - takes fewer risks than his skill-set permits him to. I know for a fact he could have finished Jake Shields standing, and there's simply no question that he could have submitted Dan Hardy. But again, I'm not in his position. One mistake or one risk too many could cost him his entire empire and legacy, just as it almost did against Serra. I myself like fighters who run on heart, but there's also a place for brilliant tacticians. I personally have found very few GSP fights boring - Shields and Hardy being his two worst performances, imo.


Hendricks nailed Condit a bunch of times with flush punches. GSP routinely has 5 rounds (with most of the time much superior cardio) to beat fighters up. And he doesn't even really do that let alone finish. The Condit/GSP fight was solid, I admit that.

But not easy to finish fighter? Hardy got tapped in seconds of hitting the ground vs. Ltyle after Lytle beat him up on teh feet for a few rounds. Kos just got killed in the first round vs. Robbie Lawler. Fitch was taken out by Hendricks in seconds. 

I'm not exactly knocking him for not finishing. But at least try once in a great while. He has some blackbelt, but doesn't use it....maybe because when he tries to use it vs. a bad grappler in Hardy...he gets denied. 

Fewer risks? HE TAKES ZERO RISKS. Even small risks. If a guy is riding a dudes back for 3 straight rounds then tries to actually get his back and look for a RNC...Would we call that a "risk" for anything other fighter? No that is just fighting. Only guy we talk about "risks" for is GSP. Like somehow trying to something with a dominant position is "risky". For any other fighter it is called fighting....for GSP it is called "risk". 

GSP told Nick and the media that they didn't even know what he was about to do to Diaz. No Georges...we all knew. 

I understand why a guy may want to play the game like GSP. I just don't understand how he gets so many fans and guys like Joe Lauzon seem to be this "newly discovered" fighter people are starting to like...although he has been sick to watch for years. Back in the old days fans used to cheer and admire fighters who went out there to fight, not being afraid to lose a fight. These days people would rather cheer the brand and his wikipedia record.



NoYards said:


> I think all that says is that you like strikers and are not really much of a fan of MMA. That's fine, you are entitled to your preference, but your preference is not what I would call MMA ... most people would call it 'bare knuckle brawling'.


No. And I hate when people respond like this. Just because I don't respect how GSP easily controls guys but doesn't go for subs or much GnP for 25 minutes on end, doesn't mean I am some just bleed fan who doesn't like grappling. GSP fans tend to think they are sophisticated and understand MMA because they "appreciate" what GSP does. Yet most are just casual fans who recognize GSP because he is the mainstream fighter. 

Big Nog is one of my favorite fighters ever. Did he get by on KOing people. One of my favorite fighters today is Gunnar Nelson...yet you probably don't even know who that is. Is he a brawler? I am a big fan of Damien Maia and Roger Gracie. Mark Coleman was the man as well. 

Don't act like you know what sort of fan I am because I think GSP is a bitch. Makes you come off as a joke/idiot.


----------



## above (Jun 20, 2012)

GSP is a great fighter (tactically) and I've always wanted to see him win especially due to his demeanor and friendliness. However, there comes a point that you can no longer excuse the infinite boredom he exuberates with his style.

I honestly hope Hendricks knocks him the fcuk out next fight!

Hopefully we can get a Hendricks vs Diaz after!


----------



## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

Sports evolve and change .. goaltenders wear masks these days, football players wear actual helmets, race cars have roll cages, fighters win by domination ..... the pussies.

I'm sure there are some back alleys where 'real fighters' are still willing to risk their lives for your entertainment.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

NoYards said:


> Sports evolve and change .. goaltenders wear masks these days, football players wear actual helmets, race cars have roll cages, fighters win by domination ..... the pussies.
> 
> I'm sure there are some back alleys where 'real fighters' are still willing to risk their lives for your entertainment.


If back alleys mean the pro sports arena of fighting called the UFC then sure.

There are plenty of real fighters in the UFC. Or guys who actually fight.

GSP isn't one. Guida is no longer one. But there are still plenty.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Cain, JDS, Hunt, Nog, Struve, Werdum, Roy Nelson, Josh Barnett, Cormier.

Hendo, Bones, Sonnen, Shogun, Tex, Lil Nog, Bader, Mousasi, Gustaf.

Silva, Weidman, Bisping, Vitor, Rockhold, Wandy, Munoz, Stann, Belcher, Jacare.

Diaz, Condit, Hendricks, Ellenberger, Rory, Maia, Kampmann, Saff, Marqaurdt, Gunnar.

Bendo, Diaz, Melendez, Maynard, Lauzon, Miller, TJ Grant, THomson, Cerrone.

Aldo, Pettis, Frankie, Mendes, Zombie, Lamas, Koch, Siver, Lentz.

Cruz, Barao, Faber, McDonald, Dillashaw, Wineland, Pickett, Jorgenson.

All real fighters to name a few. Some strikers, some wrestlers, some BJJ fighters, some well-rounded, some not, some old, some new, some green, some blue. All real fighters though.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

You'll note that I stated that GSP ought to have finished Hardy and likely could have. I consider that to be one of GSP's poorer performances, alongside the Shields fight. I stand by my comments about Penn, Diaz, Condit, Fitch, and a few others being difficult to finish. Even you said that Diaz is virtually impossible to finish. I don't think many would argue. You take tough fighters, difficult to finish, and put them in with someone who doesn't always wish to take certain risks, and 5 round blowouts are what you get. No matter how you slice it, since GSP won back his belt - in nearly 275 minutes of fighting - he's maybe been in trouble for all of 30 seconds. Why take the risks when his formula is proven and he's STILL the UFC's top draw? 

And whether Hendricks blasted Carlos or not, he didn't finish that fight. Nor did he finish Kos. I'd go so far as to say that GSP left more physical injuries on both men than Hendricks did. It just goes to show how difficult certain fighters can be to finish (Kos may no longer belong on this list... time will tell).


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Chael should be calling for a background check on GSP's blackbelt. It may have came in a happy meal. Or maybe a box of cracker jacks.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Matt Hughes disagrees. 

GSP is skilled. He simply lacks killer instinct. Let's not confuse that with lack of ability.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

He lacks fighter spirit. 

The GSP that fought Hughes died off long ago.


----------



## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Cain, JDS, Hunt, Nog, Struve, Werdum, Roy Nelson, Josh Barnett, Cormier.
> 
> Hendo, Bones, Sonnen, Shogun, Tex, Lil Nog, Bader, Mousasi, Gustaf.
> 
> ...


You should have used that list on your first attempt then.

BTW: if you watched Fuel TV after the fight, Cruz had a very different opinion from you as to whether GSP is a fighter or not ...even to the point of picking up a few pointers from GSP on how to be a better fighter .. even picking his as P4P best.

I don't get impressed by brawlers ... sure I like watching a good brawl once in a while, but brawling ability is pretty low on my list of whether they are a "good MMA fighter' or not.

Anyone in the UFC has a 'punchers chance', so flash knock outs, unless they are a proven consistent weapon (ala Liddell and Hendricks) don't count for a whole lot to me on their own.

Last minute come backs don't count for a lot to me either, although a bit more than random knockout ... if you're being tooled for 2 rounds, then because of some mistake by your opponent you hook a submission, well, it certainly counts that you have the skill to pull the sub, but you get no points for having to count on your opponent making a mistake in order to win .. where it does count is when you go in with a plan to weather a 1 or 2 round 'storm' and use your superior conditioning to take advantage when your opponent gasses.

If you think GSP is playing it safe because he goes in there and counters his opponents strengths, then you're missing the whole point of MMA, and actually being a bit hypocritical. 

What actual 'risky chances' do you see Nick usually taking? 

He almost always goes in there with superior striking skills, and a head & chin made of 'adamantium', with GJJ skills that prevent most people from even attempting to take him down ... then he walks forward the whole match swinging he 'triathlon conditioned' arms (usually) without a single worry that he's going to be put in any danger/

What the hell kind of "risky chance" is that?

Why the hell do you think Nick tries so hard to taunt fighters into brawling? It's because he knows that if he's not brawling then he's putting himself at rick of being out skilled in real tactical MMA fighting. Nick is just as afraid of risk as anyone else, it's just hard for some 'just bleed' fans to recognize risk as anything other than the risk of being KOed .. there's more than one way to lose an MMA fight, and if you lack skills in one of those areas, and try to avoid getting into those situations, then your are AVOIDING RISK ... pure and simple.

Sure, you may think it is more 'exciting' to watch a tank drive over a car than it is to watch a mechanic use their socket wrench to dismantle that tank while the tank is trying to run them over, but believe me, the 'risky chances' are more likely being taken by the mechanic .. just too bad there are so many 'MMA fans' that don't really understand what "playing it safe" (ie: only willing to fight to your skills, be they striking or grappling) really means.


----------



## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

Parky-RFC said:


> GSP is the best tactical fighter in MMA. You find weaknesses in your opponents skill-set and you do your best to exploit them. It's what competition is all about. That's why he's the champ and one of the greatest of all time.


good post


----------



## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Chael should be calling for a background check on GSP's blackbelt. It may have came in a happy meal. Or maybe a box of cracker jacks.


Chael (I think, but maybe it was Cruz), on Fuel TV after the fight, commented on how GSP was more concerned with reaching for his black belt than he was his championship belt and how he had all respect for GSP and his commitment to to martial arts over anything else.


----------



## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

I went for the not the most entertaining, but not boring either. It's not boring to watch him fight, it's just predictable. You know he's going to neutralize his opponent and out work him for 25 minutes without overly committing to anything. In the end, why would he? He makes a lot of money and has a huge fan base regardless of what he does. Might as well play it safe and nearly guarantee himself a win. I understand why he does it, but I just can't get excited to watch him fight. I could have stopped watching after the first round of his fight with Diaz and I wouldn't have missed anything. It's not boring, it's predictable. 25 minutes later, and St. Pierre wins another 25 minute decision where he didn't take any risks. Like I said, I understand why he does it, it's just not particularly the most interesting thing to watch because it's like watching the same movie again and again. That wouldn't be that bad if it weren't 25 minutes long with a guy holding back so much.

I do blame some of his opponents, though. Almost all of them are tentative because of his take down ability and it brings out the worst in them. They are defeated before the fight is over like I've said. Hopefully Hendricks changes that because he has the wrestling to compete with St. Pierre, and he's an aggressive striker with extremely heavy hands. He's like a better version of Koscheck who also matched up well with St. Pierre, but just became predictable and didn't work to his strengths. He just threw the same overhand right over and over hoping it would land and got jabbed repetitively in the process. I'm hoping Hendricks mixes it up, because I think he has the ability to take St. Pierre down. Koscheck had that ability too, he just didn't really try to exploit it. Hendricks should keep St. Pierre guessing and let those powerful hands come at the right time and not be too forced. If St. Pierre sees it coming the whole time, he will probably be able to avoid it.

I'll be looking forward to this.


----------



## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

above said:


> GSP is a great fighter (tactically) and I've always wanted to see him win especially due to his demeanor and friendliness. H_owever, there comes a point that you can no longer excuse the infinite boredom he exuberates with his style._
> 
> I honestly hope Hendricks knocks him the fcuk out next fight!
> 
> Hopefully we can get a Hendricks vs Diaz after!


I don't understand that attitude, really .. not that I begrudge you your right to have it, but to me it doesn't make a lot of sense.

We all know Nick's fighting style, he's an unstoppable arm swinging robot made of hardened steel ... he comes forward swinging and rabbit punches you until you are worn down, then either the ref stops the fight or you try to take Nick to the ground where he sweeps and submits you.

Predictable and boring to anyone who is actually interested in seeing how MMA fighters adapt to their opponents fighting styles and overcome some disadvantage ... that's why I thought his match with Condit was exciting. Condit overcame Nicks advantages and won ... Condit would have been stupid to play Nicks game. He wasn't stupid, Nick was ... too bad, so sad.

Now, if people want to call this fight boring, then yeah, maybe they have a point, but only because there was no mystery as to how GSP would overcome Nick's "advantages" because it was obvious Nick didn't have any ... I called the fight right as soon as it was announced (totally one sided obvious decision) as almost every sane person on this board did.

The one responsible for making this fight 'exciting' was Nick .. he was the one who would have to come up with a plan in order to overcome his obvious disadvantages to make this a "Real Fight".

Nick failed, so if you want to blame anyone for a boring fight, blame the people responsible .. Nick Diaz and his idiotic coach for not bothering to have a plan on how to fight the most dominant WW in the history of MMA.


----------



## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

SM33 said:


> GSP is an underachiever


tell that to his record and people on it.

made me chuckle



jonnyg4508 said:


> He lacks fighter spirit.


tell that to all those he's beaten in the last, what, 6 years or so?



St.Paul Guy said:


> The only thing more predictable than GSP stomping his opponents is the thousands of complaining posters.


GSP at least uses training and skills, and strategy which are different every time, the complaining posters just scream their lack of fight culture.


I like how GSP humiliates and frustrates every opponent, I loved to see the look in Diaz eyes at the end of the first, and the frustration.

credits to nick, he never gave up when that bell rang, but in between rounds, he looked lost. Same went for Kos, the most antagonizing opponents all left the octagon with a renewed respect for GSP.

I like it how GSP toys with the best his division has to offer. At times last night, it looked like a father giving a whoopin to his son.


----------



## Drowning Donkey (Dec 11, 2009)

GSP is the greatest point fighter athlete out there. Always with a great gameplan that he sticks with and coaches that advise him very well. He shuts down fights and his opponents. His opponents don't always get a massive beating however because GSP is first and foremost a very cautious athlete.

Does that make GSP a boring fighter. Probably not for his most devoted fans but if I were to make a dream fight card....

...GSP would be in the stance watching with the rest of us.


----------



## bogey_j (Jul 5, 2010)

hadoq said:


> tell that to his record and people on it.
> 
> made me chuckle
> 
> ...


'toy' and 'humiliate' is what anderson does to his opponents. GSP just neutralizes guys. no one is ever in danger of being seriously hurt when fighting GSP. he just frustrates people


----------



## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

I'm not denying GSP's talent or greatness.

You can't say 'To be fair, when was the last time someone finished Diaz?' Because when you have Diaz in positions like GSP did last night, his toughness is all the more reason to try and finish the fight. GSP could have made that statement, he could have stopped Nick Diaz, but blatantly had no interest.

GSP does not LnP, he is guilty of settling for points via domination. I just find that weird, I don't know who's telling him to fight this way but they've ruined what could have been. Shows just how good he is, keeps beating guys for 25 minutes with zero killer instinct. Getting very strange to watch.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

bogey_j said:


> 'toy' and 'humiliate' is what anderson does to his opponents. GSP just neutralizes guys. no one is ever in danger of being seriously hurt when fighting GSP. he just frustrates people


He paralyzed Josh Koscheck's face. Or is that not serious enough? 

Oy, these threads :sarcastic09:


----------



## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Canadian Psycho said:


> He paralyzed Josh Koscheck's face. Or is that not serious enough?
> 
> Oy, these threads :sarcastic09:


BUT GSP is weak an has no power. Girls clearly can break someones orbital with a jab!

Finishing BJ Penn is pretty common too... as well as a prime Hughes.

I enjoyed the fight last night. Not surprised interweb experts still bitch...


----------



## AlexZ (Sep 14, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> He lacks fighter spirit.
> *
> The GSP that fought Hughes died off long ago.*


I agree, now why are stuck with paying ppv to watch GSP be the "most skilled neutralizer on the planet" as opposed to him really showing his offensive mma skills. 



SM33 said:


> I'm not denying GSP's talent or greatness.
> 
> You can't say 'To be fair, when was the last time someone finished Diaz?' Because when you have Diaz in positions like GSP did last night, his toughness is all the more reason to try and finish the fight. *GSP could have made that statement, he could have stopped Nick Diaz, but blatantly had no interest.*


As a Diaz fan I would have rather seen Diaz get finished then see GSP play it safe and take the win in this boring a$$ main event.


----------



## jaw2929 (Dec 9, 2011)

Cannot stand him at all. Fighting not to lose instead of fighting to win is his M.O. It's absolutely ridiculous.


----------



## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

well then, I apologize to all you non GSP fans and GSP haters. 

I do enjoy his fights because I do enjoy his style and approach.

why should I feel sorry for that?

I mean, I like MMA, I like watching MMA and GSP is quite unique as a fighter and I love seeing him fight, what you guys deem as "boring", I actually see interest in it.

so it's either 1 of 2 things:

1. I'm seeing shit that actually isn't there

or 

2. I'm seeing shit that's there but that you are not educated enough to see or enjoy


but since others see the same thing as I do, it's either a global and very strong collective hallucination

OR

a bunch of fans that are not educated enough about the sport and don't want to admit it, rather blaming it on the fighters rather than their own lack of will for educating themselves and learn to enjoy a different aspect of the sport, closer to an actual sport than a bar brawl would be.

just saying.

collective hallucination or lambda fans?

which one is the more likely?



the thing is, pretty much everyone who's well versed in the sport has tons of praises for GSP games, arguably, he doesn't finish, but the fact that he's an all time great and one of the GOAT is a well established fact in the whole professional MMA world.

so then again, are those people hallucinating and seeing stuff that is not there?

the issue I have with GSP haters is that they have little to no argumentation to support their claims. I'd be loving to debate with people willing to actually debate. it's everyone's right not to like a fighter. But then again, why do you watch him fight in the first place?


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

PheelGoodInc said:


> BUT GSP is weak an has no power. *Girls clearly can break someones orbital with a jab!*
> 
> Finishing BJ Penn is pretty common too... as well as a prime Hughes.
> 
> I enjoyed the fight last night. Not surprised interweb experts still bitch...


Correct.


----------



## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

Diaz would beat GSP if they were to fight


----------



## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

So much cry in this thread. If you don't like his style, don't watch his fights. You still will anyways. In his next fight he will still be the number one PPV draw in the UFC. He will continue to rake in millions, will continue to be top 2-3 p4p, and is the best WW of all time by far. 

Nick didn't try to finish the fight anymore than GSP did, and he was the one FIGHTING FOR the title. He didn't rep Stockton very well in this fight unfortunately.


----------



## AlexZ (Sep 14, 2007)

hadoq said:


> I mean, I like MMA, I like watching MMA and GSP is quite unique as a fighter and I love seeing him fight, what you guys deem as "boring", I actually see interest in it.
> 
> so it's either 1 of 2 things:
> 
> ...


Being that this is a dedicated mma forum, it's likely that the average member has been exposed/follows mma more than the average Brock Lesnar fan. Now when the general consensus(even among GSP fans) is that GSP is boring and doesn't fight to finish then I don't know what to say except:

1) GSP is a boring fighter...; or 

2) Some highly educated GSP fans are over-analyzing his fighting style so blindly that they disregard the fact that he is boring and could finish fights if he took a risk.


PS: Many watch his fihgts hoping GSP will actually come to fight (based on his false pre-fight statements/promises) or they watch wishing for him to get KO'd like Matt Serra did :thumbsup:


----------



## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Why are people tired of GSP? 

People should be tired of fighters who can't defend the takedown or fight effectively off their back!


----------



## Parky-RFC (Jul 6, 2010)

LizaG said:


> Why are people tired of GSP?
> 
> People should be tired of fighters who can't defend the takedown or fight effectively off their back!


Exactly. Diaz knew what was coming and for the most part failed misrelbly to counter it.


----------



## MMATycoon (Aug 15, 2011)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> I don't understand people who expect anything different. This is what GSP does. It's like buying a Taylor Swift album expecting some heavy metal.
> I find GSP to be fun to watch because seeing fighters against him is like watching them try to solve a puzzle for the ultimate fighter. And he really doesnt lay n pray, he's pretty active on the ground going for strikes and submissions occasionally.


because he use to try to finish fights now he just tries to score points and neutralize everything his opponent does instead of initiating some action himself. Asside from a little pitter patter he barely attacks. He almost never goes for subs I dunno what fights you are watching. The most exciting thing he does is throw elbows when hes on top....sometimes


----------



## tripster (Jun 5, 2006)

bogey_j said:


> tired of paying for his fights hoping something surprises me. same ol' george. all his fights look the same. not even trying to finish. "reactive not proactive" is fitting. i'm done. i'm DONE with him


Shame on you brotha'. You have been a witness to a great athlete and his acomplishments. An athlete who's contribution to the sport is immesurable, who's presence and dedication has transformed the sport. GSP has changed the sport forever and we may not see another athlete like him in MMA for decades. He is the kind of athlete that fits in with the likes of Gretzky, Jordan, Tiger Woods and others. The game was not the same after they played it. Shame on you brotha'!


----------



## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

LizaG said:


> Why are people tired of GSP?
> 
> People should be tired of fighters who can't defend the takedown or fight effectively off their back!


because people can't respect GSP for what he is, a technical master.


----------



## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Stun Gun said:


> because people can't respect GSP for what he is, a technical master.


Want to something neat that I just noticed? Nick Diaz switched stances a bunch of times in the fight to try and setup angles for his strikes and back up GSP to the fence. Every single time, GSP recognizes this and circles away on Diaz' lead side. If Nick is in southpaw, GSP circles to Diaz' right, if he's in orthodox, GSP circles away to Diaz' left. Even when Diaz switched stances in the middle of a combo, GSP still circles away and exits on the correct side.

Small details like that make a huge difference in the fight. Circling to the wrong side means you walk straight into a Diaz combo and get wailed on with 20 body shots. That's why Diaz kept changing stances, he was trying to catch GSP going the wrong way but he was successfully countered every single time. Most people don't notice these things, hell, I didn't see it until today.


----------



## Adam365 (Jul 10, 2008)

mo25 said:


> I blame Matt Serra.


LOL! so true!


----------



## <M>MA (Nov 20, 2006)

Doesn't matter if GSP is "boring" or not, he's already a legend and no one thus far has had an answer for him. He'll continue to sell huge PPV numbers because he's reached that status where we all hold our breath every time he steps into the octagon with a new contender that's the "biggest challenge" to his throne. He's gone on a tear in the WW division and beats and beats up everyone that's faced him. Everyone said Diaz would wreck GSP on his feet but you can take the scoring from the feet alone and GSP would still win the fight. Everyone is waiting for him to fall which is why we will continue to watch his fights, everyone here is a fan of MMA and GSP is the epitome of an MMA practitioner. 

http://blog.fightmetric.com/2013/03/st-pierre-vs-diaz-official-ufc.html


----------



## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

mo25 said:


> I blame Matt Serra.


----------



## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

My dog watching GSP fight.


----------



## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

OU said:


> My dog watching GSP fight.


----------



## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

aerius said:


> Want to something neat that I just noticed? Nick Diaz switched stances a bunch of times in the fight to try and setup angles for his strikes and back up GSP to the fence. Every single time, GSP recognizes this and circles away on Diaz' lead side. If Nick is in southpaw, GSP circles to Diaz' right, if he's in orthodox, GSP circles away to Diaz' left. Even when Diaz switched stances in the middle of a combo, GSP still circles away and exits on the correct side.
> 
> Small details like that make a huge difference in the fight. Circling to the wrong side means you walk straight into a Diaz combo and get wailed on with 20 body shots. That's why Diaz kept changing stances, he was trying to catch GSP going the wrong way but he was successfully countered every single time. Most people don't notice these things, hell, I didn't see it until today.


Nice observations.

The problem is that most people like 'car wrecks' ... the same people who think GSP fights are boring would watch a crash free F1 race, where the winner wins by 2 minutes and instead of marveling at the skill of the winner for being able to make all those other professional F1 drivers look like armatures, would complain the race was boring because there were no photo finish and spectacular crashes.

I'm also sure they would be whining that the winner should have either started put a blind fold on for the last 10 laps, or pitted for a minute and 45 seconds to make it interesting.


----------



## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

There's not doubt that "car wrecks" as you call them are fun to watch. Hell, I love a good slugfest as much as anyone else and fights such as Garcia vs. Korean Zombie are up there among my favourites. And I'd be lying if I said I wasn't cheering my ass off during Wandy's fight against Brian Stann.

Now, do I wish that GSP would open up a bit more at times and go for the kill? Sure. But at the same time I can certainly understand why he doesn't. Take for instance his admission that he could've taken Diaz' back, but chose not to. Let's say he did take Diaz' back, could he sub or finish him from there? Highly unlikely. Yet if he does take the back, it opens up reversals and scrambles for Diaz, and you really don't want to mess around with Diaz getting control on the ground. GSP probably worked out the risks & payoffs and decided it wasn't worth it. And I can't blame him for that.

Looking at the UFC, all the champions fight smart, and I don't think this is a coincidence. Some are more aggressive or flashy and take more chances, but all of them work towards their own strengths while shutting their opponents down.


----------



## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I wonder if GSP is starting to lose interest in the sport?
He's talking about retiring soon and hasn't really looked the same in his last couple of fights. What's strange, is that he's still been able to dominate his opponents with relative ease. He just doesn't look as explosive as he normally does and is starting to show weaker cardio than he has in the past. 

I like GSP and for the most part find him exciting, but I agree that he has become predictable lately. As Canadian Psycho said, why fix a winning strategy? Or why fix something that isn't broken? So he can be a "true fighter"? Please. Fighting is for little boys and girls. Martial arts is for men and women. He's a model ambassador for the sport and I always enjoy his fights. Finishing fights mean jack shit to me. I could care less if he finishes a fight honestly and I don't understand why it's such a big deal to people. Ben Henderson doesn't finish his fights yet no one complains about him.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

It's quite possible he's burnt out. He's been fighting at the top of the premier organization for going on ten years. Maybe he'd like to move onto other ventures. Or maybe this is all misplaced speculation. I'm sure we'll find out more after he faces Hendricks.


----------



## NoYards (Sep 7, 2008)

He seemed 'depressed' and 'distracted' to me, and he did mention something about 'personal issues' in response to one of the presser questions.


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

I don't consider him to be boring but he certainly isn't exciting either. I don't keep a list or anything but he probably isn't even in the top 5 of my favorite WWs.


----------



## Sharon (Jun 14, 2012)

As amazing and talented (and gorgeous) as GSP is, SOME of his fights have been boring. The most boring one for me was the Jake Shields fight. I felt he should have finished Sheilds in the 2nd round at least. 

The thing with GSP is he has some really big strong legs, which indicates that he can finish people whenever he wants. I think he chooses to fight conservative and punish opponents.


----------



## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

He hasn't seemed as quick or explosive, and getting marked up more than I previously recall (although Condit and Diaz are hard hitters), looking forward to the Hendricks fight to see how he does.


----------



## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

Sharon said:


> As amazing and talented (and gorgeous) as GSP is, SOME of his fights have been boring. The most boring one for me was the Jake Shields fight. I felt he should have finished Sheilds in the 2nd round at least.
> 
> *The thing with GSP is he has some really big strong legs, which indicates that he can finish people whenever he wants*. I think he chooses to fight conservative and punish opponents.


Lolwut?


----------



## Sharon (Jun 14, 2012)

Knockout power comes from the legs. Have you seen the size of his thighs, hamstrings and glutes? He is built to dominate fighters at his weight class. Look at people who hit hard. They ALL have above average size in legs. Wrestlers who love to ground and pound have massive legs. It's all where there power comes from.


----------



## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Chuck Liddell didn't seem to have big legs... and a guy with huge legs, Ben Henderson hardly ever KOs anyone.


----------



## Sharon (Jun 14, 2012)

hellholming said:


> Chuck Liddell didn't seem to have big legs... and a guy with huge legs, Ben Henderson hardly ever KOs anyone.


That's because Ben is the closest fighter to GSP in terms of size, skillset and mentality..he chooses not to KO people. He fights that Muay Thai sensibility of just punishing opponents until they themselves break. Just because they dont' KO people it doesn't mean they lack the ability.

Chuck Liddell, I don't know much about him, I can't find a picture of his legs. Maybe he is an exception.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Dan Henderson, Hendricks, Robbie Lawler...

Punching power comes from knowing how to throw a punch hard.


----------



## Sharon (Jun 14, 2012)

What makes you think Henderson and Hendricks don't have big legs????


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Dan Henderson, Hendricks, Robbie Lawler...
> 
> Punching power comes from knowing how to throw a punch hard.


Knowledge and the core, can't forget the core  

Sent from Verticalsports.com App


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Sharon said:


> What makes you think Henderson and Hendricks don't have big legs????


look at them...


----------



## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Sharon said:


> That's because Ben is the closest fighter to GSP in terms of size, skillset and mentality.*.he chooses not to KO people.* He fights that Muay Thai sensibility of just punishing opponents until they themselves break. Just because they dont' KO people it doesn't mean they lack the ability.
> 
> Chuck Liddell, I don't know much about him, I can't find a picture of his legs. Maybe he is an exception.



LOL that is absolutely hilarious if you think GSP or Bendo are choosing not to finish guys. GSP fights safe that's a fact that even he acknowledges. But he also doesn't have finishing power. You will never see him KO a guy with 1 punch the way someone like Hendricks does.

I will give you 1 guy that would support your argument though. That would be Tyson Griffin. He has a few KO's on his resume and massive legs that likely play a large role in that. 

But your generalizing statement just isn't true. Especially in the cases of GSP and Bendo.


----------



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Charlie Brenneman had some massive legs.

Ryan Bader has a massive upper body...small legs....big power.

Josh Barnett has huge legs....not much power.


----------



## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

OU said:


> I will give you 1 guy that would support your argument though. That would be Tyson Griffin.


also Crocop.


----------



## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

hellholming said:


> also Crocop.


Mark Hunt... I'm pretty sure his ankles are the same size as my waist.


----------



## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Butterbean


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Sharon said:


> Knockout power comes from the legs. Have you seen the size of his thighs, hamstrings and glutes? He is built to dominate fighters at his weight class. Look at people who hit hard. They ALL have above average size in legs. Wrestlers who love to ground and pound have massive legs. It's all where there power comes from.


Knockout power comes from technique, core strength, and genetic factors. Strength of the legs is a small factor. Proper technique starts in the legs.


----------



## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Teila Tuli... oh wait....


----------



## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> Knockout power comes from technique, core strength,* and genetic factors*. Strength of the legs is a small factor. Proper technique starts in the legs.


I remember reading some very interesting stats about boxers with KO power and wrist size.

here is something close to what I read.
http://www.badlefthook.com/2011/3/1...manny-pacquiaos-body-has-tricked-analysts-and


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

OU said:


> I remember reading some very interesting stats about boxers with KO power and wrist size.
> 
> here is something close to what I read.
> http://www.badlefthook.com/2011/3/1...manny-pacquiaos-body-has-tricked-analysts-and


That is a really cool read. Definitely something that needs looking into. Pos rep.

And am I the only person who read that and then measured their wrists?


----------



## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> That is a really cool read. Definitely something that needs looking into. Pos rep.
> 
> And am I the only person who read that and then measured their wrists?


LOL yeah when I first read about it I was checking out my wrist like crazy.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

There is a correlation between KO power and penis size. 

For instance, mine is so big I could KO you with it.


----------



## tripster (Jun 5, 2006)

Canadian Psycho said:


> There is a correlation between KO power and penis size.
> 
> For instance, mine is so big I could KO you with it.


Mine is so big I could KO myself! No hands!


----------



## McBoB (Mar 19, 2013)

I could see how people feel about him being boring but you have to look at it this way he is winning the fights and he's always controlling every opponent you may not like it but you already know what to expect before you rent. I tho I people rent because they want to see what his opponent is you g to be able to do. I love GSP and I find his style very technical


----------



## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I have a vagina, therefore I win by submission.


----------



## Killer_Z (Nov 20, 2011)

GSP is a terrific fighter to watch in action. I'm on the edge of my seat every minute of every one of his fights.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Canadian Psycho said:


> There is a correlation between KO power and penis size.
> 
> For instance, mine is so big I could KO you with it.


Mine's classified as a deadly weapon or at least I think it is. At least I remember cops, tasers, and a judge saying something about assault. I didn't have pants so I can only believe it had to do with my prodigious size.


----------



## bogey_j (Jul 5, 2010)

Killer_Z said:


> GSP is a terrific fighter to watch in action. I'm on the edge of my seat every minute of every one of his fights.


lol seriously?


----------



## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Ari said:


> I have a vagina, therefore I win by submission.


OK that post almost made me spit out me beer all over the place. LOL



Killer_Z said:


> GSP is a terrific fighter to watch in action. I'm on the edge of my seat every minute of every one of his fights.


I'm the same way. I'm like that with most of the current champs, actually, and for different reasons. There's something to appreciate about all of them. IDK how to explain it, but I was just as pumped during Wandy/Stann as I was during Diaz/GSP.

*Fighting is like beer and ice cream - there's a crapload of flavours, and I like 'em all.*


----------



## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Woodenhead that last sentence says it all for me  well said!


----------



## Sharon (Jun 14, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> Knockout power comes from technique, core strength, and genetic factors. Strength of the legs is a small factor. Proper technique starts in the legs.


Your trunk i.e. glutes, thighs, hams and midsection are what constitutes your 'core', therefore I am still right. Yes, technique is important, but you have to use your legs to maximize that technique and the bigger the legs, the more power behind the technique.



OU said:


> LOL that is absolutely hilarious if you think GSP or Bendo are choosing not to finish guys. GSP fights safe that's a fact that even he acknowledges. But he also doesn't have finishing power. You will never see him KO a guy with 1 punch the way someone like Hendricks does.
> 
> I will give you 1 guy that would support your argument though. That would be Tyson Griffin. He has a few KO's on his resume and massive legs that likely play a large role in that.
> 
> But your generalizing statement just isn't true. Especially in the cases of GSP and Bendo.


GSP fights safe. Yes, I have not dismissed that. But imagine if he DIDN'T fight safe? You say he has no finishing power, but excuse me, who finished Matt Hughes with a headkick?? He finished Matt Serra by thrusting his massive legs high into the sky and having them drop on his body, which seemed so painful, that the referee decided to stop the fight. 

The fact is, safe or not, his legs give me an advantage in finishing opponents. 

Ben Henderson's style is to wear you down until you quite. If he landed a headkick or someone, you think he wouldn't finish them? He wore out Donald Cerrone in the 1st round of their second fight by just digging his knees into Cerrone's skinny legs. That's power right there. They know how to finish, they simply just don't, frustrating as it is.


----------



## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Sharon said:


> GSP fights safe. Yes, I have not dismissed that. But imagine if he DIDN'T fight safe? You say he has no finishing power, but excuse me, who finished Matt Hughes with a headkick?? He finished Matt Serra by thrusting his massive legs high into the sky and having them drop on his body, which seemed so painful, that the referee decided to stop the fight.
> 
> The fact is, safe or not, his legs give me an advantage in finishing opponents.
> 
> Ben Henderson's style is to wear you down until you quite. If he landed a headkick or someone, you think he wouldn't finish them? He wore out Donald Cerrone in the 1st round of their second fight by just digging his knees into Cerrone's skinny legs. That's power right there. They know how to finish, they simply just don't, frustrating as it is.


I'm sorry but IMO you are completely wrong. I don't agree with your assessment at all. As others have pointed out there are far more factors in finishing ability then just size of legs or lower body. I completely disagree about Bendo and GSP as well. If they could finish people, they would. The fact is they just can't.


----------



## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

Sharon said:


> GSP ...
> 
> The fact is, safe or not, *his* legs give *me* an advantage in finishing opponents.
> 
> .


Um... what?

.


----------



## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Sharon said:


> Your trunk i.e. glutes, thighs, hams and midsection are what constitutes your 'core', therefore I am still right. Yes, technique is important, but you have to use your legs to maximize that technique and the bigger the legs, the more power behind the technique.


Umm... no. Your legs are not part of your core when spoken of by fitness experts. Midesection, back, chest, and glutes are the usual definition. So you are still wrong. I've got 23 years of combat and fitness training that says so.


----------



## evzbc (Oct 11, 2006)

deadmanshand said:


> Umm... no. Your legs are not part of your core when spoken of by fitness experts. Midesection, back, chest, and glutes are the usual definition. So you are still wrong. I've got 23 years of combat and fitness training that says so.


Erm, you guys are both off.

The "core" contains your tranverse abdominis, rectus abdominis, obliques, and spine erectors.

Strength (arm and or leg) has little to nothing to do with KO power. It's all about technique baby.

It's like throwing a ball. Some people throw a MEAN fastball, some can't.

If you watch GSP on Criss Angels show (Youtube 'GSP Criss Angel') they both hit a punching machine and Angel kicks his butt.

I'm sure GSP can hit hard but he doesn't have great natural KO power. ANY guy in the UFC could KO someone if they catch you standing still.

This is just my opinion of course...


----------

