# UFC 164: Mir vs Barnett



## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

> Former UFC heavyweight champion Josh Barnett's first octagon appearance in more than 11 years will take place at UFC 164, where he meets Frank Mir.
> 
> UFC officials today announced the booking.
> 
> ...


http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2013/...lwaukee?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Hmm....

Mur by split....maybe? 

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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

all Barnett. I'll be willing to take bets on this one.


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## _CaptainRon (May 8, 2007)

I like Barnett, and I say don't drug test either one.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Mir is the better grappler and striker all Josh has here is wrestling with a strong top game he might take it but I see Mir taking this unless it turns into a boring clinch fest. 


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Damn it. I was hoping Mir could get a win first. Now he'll be 0-3. Should be an interesting fight though.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

As much as I like Mir... I think Josh has this in the bag.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Don't understand why Barnett was signed at all. Just shows how pathetically untalented most of the division still is. I think Cain and JDS are the only guys in the entire division who's skill are even good enough to hang with the guys from 135-205 if weight was somehow made equal. 

Everyone jumped all over Overeem for having no legit wins, how about Barnett? What the hell has he done in the last 10 years other than fight b level guys at HW, a division that is already b level when we are talking about the best.

I think Mir will win, but I doubt it will be pretty.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Or Josh Barnett is a good fighter and HW has some solid talent. 

Sergei Kharitonov isn't exactly some can from the minor leagues. And if we're being literal, he's beaten prime Big Nog and prime Mark Hunt in the past ten years.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

My first thoughts were how is Mir going to win this. Then I remember Mirko pulled off some weird submission on Barnett while in the guard. 

It should 75% Barnett and 25% Mir. Barnett should just keep it standing. He could easily get caught up in an armbar.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I don't get what has everyone so convinced that Barnett has this in the bag? Mir lost to JDS and Cormier yes but this is also the same guy who knocked out and submitted Big Nog. In his last 5 years Josh's biggest win IMO is Jeff Monson. While I am a big Monson fan the truth is if he can't take you down then he has little to offer in the way of offense. Mir has a better guard than anyone Barnett has fought ever. taking down and submitting some one dimensional strikers with little take down defense impresses me little and hardly makes me believe your gonna have much for a guy who is a superior striker and has probably the second most dangerous guard in the UFC HW division. 

Josh does not have that one punch knock out power he is a control fighter and I believe he is out of his league here. I don't just think Mir will win I expect him to win impressively by finishing Josh. Brett Rogers was a C level fighter and Sergei was a B rate fighter in Pride and is lucky if he is a still that. I don't know what everyone is using to base this idea that Barnett has this on most of his best wins in MMA were over strikers with little ground game. 

Mir's win over Kongo was just as impressive as anything Josh has done in the last 4 years and in that time no matter how ugly Mir did KO CroCop and win a decision over Roy Nelson as well as the previously mentioned submission and Ko of Big Nog (who a split decision over was the biggest win of Josh's career and also won where he lost the rematch)


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Mir by submission. Barnett isn't even a top 5 grappler in the UFC HW division.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Hmm....
> 
> Mur by split....maybe?


Split of shinbone or arm¿


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Mirs big chance to give his career one more shot. If he loses this he should retire, unless he just wants to take more beatings for cash. I hope he fights a bit smarter then he did against cormier.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Toxic said:


> I don't get what has everyone so convinced that Barnett has this in the bag? Mir lost to JDS and Cormier yes but this is also the same guy who knocked out and submitted Big Nog. In his last 5 years Josh's biggest win IMO is Jeff Monson. While I am a big Monson fan the truth is if he can't take you down then he has little to offer in the way of offense. Mir has a better guard than anyone Barnett has fought ever. taking down and submitting some one dimensional strikers with little take down defense impresses me little and hardly makes me believe your gonna have much for a guy who is a superior striker and has probably the second most dangerous guard in the UFC HW division.
> 
> Josh does not have that one punch knock out power he is a control fighter and I believe he is out of his league here. I don't just think Mir will win I expect him to win impressively by finishing Josh. Brett Rogers was a C level fighter and Sergei was a B rate fighter in Pride and is lucky if he is a still that. I don't know what everyone is using to base this idea that Barnett has this on most of his best wins in MMA were over strikers with little ground game.
> 
> Mir's win over Kongo was just as impressive as anything Josh has done in the last 4 years and in that time no matter how ugly Mir did KO CroCop and win a decision over Roy Nelson as well as the previously mentioned submission and Ko of Big Nog (who a split decision over was the biggest win of Josh's career and also won where he lost the rematch)


He also got his butt kicked by Shane Carwin and was on his way to getting KTFO by an over-the-hill Big Nog. Let's not pretend Mir dominated that fight. I like Frank, but he's shot. Josh will retire him, and once again, those who doubt the SF boys will be proven wrong.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

No_Mercy said:


> My first thoughts were how is Mir going to win this. Then I remember Mirko pulled off some weird submission on Barnett while in the guard.
> 
> It should 75% Barnett and 25% Mir. Barnett should just keep it standing. He could easily get caught up in an armbar.


Mirko definitely never submitted Josh with anything other than punches in the last fight, which is still a weird one to me. Josh yelling"oh shit" and rolling over and tapping was just strange. The time the fight ended in guard was the first and it was because Barnett hurt his shoulder taking Cro Cop down.

This is interesting for me. I think Barnett could win but Frank training at Jackson's makes me think otherwise. This is either a clinch fest or a real short fight either way.

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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Canadian Psycho said:


> He also got his butt kicked by Shane Carwin and was on his way to getting KTFO by an over-the-hill Big Nog. Let's not pretend Mir dominated that fight. I like Frank, but he's shot. Josh will retire him, and once again, *those who doubt the SF boys* will be proven wrong.


What?

Barnett is a former UFC champion who fought in the UFC before and more times than Strikeforce. How is he a strikeforce boy? Hell half of his Strikeforce fights were when the UFC owned it.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Life B Ez said:


> Mirko definitely never submitted Josh with anything other than punches in the last fight, which is still a weird one to me. Josh yelling"oh shit" and rolling over and tapping was just strange. The time the fight ended in guard was the first and it was because Barnett hurt his shoulder taking Cro Cop down.
> 
> This is interesting for me. I think Barnett could win but Frank training at Jackson's makes me think otherwise. This is either a clinch fest or a real short fight either way.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Mirko Punched him in the eye and he couldn't see and panicked.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

osmium said:


> What?
> 
> Barnett is a former UFC champion who fought in the UFC before and more times than Strikeforce. How is he a strikeforce boy? Hell half of his Strikeforce fights were when the UFC owned it.


Oh, stop being so God damn literal. His last four fights were under the SF banner. And he hasn't fought in the UFC in an eternity. Let me have my fun, and quit being such a Buzz Killington.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I consider Barnett more of a Pride guy if anything.. 

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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

I think Barnetts is pretty confident in his sub defense. He may just take him down for 3 rds for the UD. That would be interesting to see.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Mir is the better grappler and striker all Josh has here is wrestling with a strong top game he might take it but I see Mir taking this unless it turns into a boring clinch fest.


LOL another guy who overrated Mir to no end. Mir is the better grappler? You know grappling includes wrestling don't you? Mir is not the better grappler. Barnett can keep it standing if he wants. He probably could get some TDs. And he wouldn't get sub'd if it is on the ground anyway. 

Mir has the better striking? Yea, if he brings that awful head movement he did vs. Nog he will get dusted. He looked awful. What fights should I watch to see if Mir has decent strikes? The fact he caught Kongo who sucks anyway, with a shot when Kongo was so worried about the TD? Or when nothing happened for 2.5 rounds vs CC and he found a random knee to end it? Mir's striking sucks. 

Barnett is waaaay tougher than Mir. Has a muuuuuuuch better chin. Has muuuuuuuuch more cardio. Has muuuuuch more wrestling. Is experienced enough and good enough to not get caught in a sub.  Striking is basically a wash. But I doubt Mir hurts Barnett bad. Barnett is way more durable than Mir.


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## RagingDemonMZ (Apr 10, 2013)

barnett controls where this fight goes and he has a granite chin and pretty damn heavy hands to match, he could win standing or take mir down and beat him up there. mir probably has better standup but mir's chin is always a factor and this one is no different, take into consideration that barnett is great at submission defense as well so that won't be a big thing like it was in mir vs cormier


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

There will be a ton of humble pie eaten by most after this fight, I am baffled and mind f***ed looking at the poll and reading this thread. I thought the fight favored Mir but figured everyone would be 50/50 on it but to favor Josh?

When the only fight you have lost that wasn't a title fight in almost 7 years was to Cormier I am not writing you off. Mir was on his way blah blah blah, truth is he still knocked Nog's block off and then took his arm home off and put it on the mantle. 

Quit telling me what Mir has done wrong to make your points give me some kind of example of what Josh has done so right. he submitted Sergei? Sergei sucks he is a solid striker with a brief resemblance of TD defense, Brett Rogers who also lost to UFC wash out Eddie Sanchez? 

Please somebody give me some example of something that Josh has done to justify picking him.

EDIT: Mir's chin is suspect? Why cause Carwin and JDS knocked him out? Never mind Nog, Cro Cop and Roy Nelson couldn't get it done. The only guys to knock him out in 5 years are either elite strikers who knock out iron chinned kick boxers or 265 lb power punchers. I can see how you would think that a submission wrestler who has knocked out exactly one well past his prime fighter could knock him out. makes sense.


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## GDPofDRB (Apr 18, 2013)

Baby Faced War Master gots this.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I really wanted to see this fight 10-11 years ago. I was for Josh then and now. I thnk some people are underestimating his grappling skills. He's a diffeent kind of wrestler. 

Mir is going to get beaten senseless on his back. again.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Rauno said:


> I consider Barnett more of a Pride guy if anything..
> 
> Sent from my GT-S5660 using VerticalSports.Com App


I just consider him Mirko's bitch.



dlxrevolution said:


> I think Barnetts is pretty confident in his sub defense. He may just take him down for 3 rds for the UD. That would be interesting to see.


Well we already know that Barnett is a moron so him thinking that Mir can't sub him is entirely feasible. Which will result in a broken limb for Barnett since someone with the level of skill and strength of Mir can sub anyone. If I were Werdum I wouldn't go to the ground with Mir; he doesn't need to be technically better he just needs to get his grip on a power submission and it is over.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Mir just put on one of the worst performances of his career. If Barnett opts to box with him for a few seconds and then pressure him against the cage, I doubt he'll have much trouble doing so. 

Anyone raising Mir's being with Greg Jackson after his performance against DC is on the pot.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Mir by vicious submission. 


Although if Barnett is smart he'll cage control and dirty box/uppercut him all night, thats where Mir is the weakest


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Yeah, I'm with toxic and Osmium on this. Mir via Brutality.


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## LikeABoss88 (Feb 3, 2013)

War Mir


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

Mir will get out boxed gas get taken down and then tap to an arm triangle. ask me how i knew after the fight


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## CarlosCondit (Jul 16, 2011)

It will be a stand up war, as both are so good on the ground. I'm going with Barnett with this dream fight via TKO!


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## Hexabob69 (Nov 8, 2008)

I voted that Barnett would take this but that depends on which Mir shows up. I have not seen the Mir that can beat Barnett a few fights at least. We shall see.


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

I'll take Barnett simply because he can dictate where the fight goes and is a much better wrestler than Mir.


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## LikeABoss88 (Feb 3, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8-sMJZTYf0

Let The Bodies Hit the Floor - Drowning Pool


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I just can't figure this out, I am baffled as to why this is suck a Josh Barnett love fest, I realized Mir has always been kinda unpopular but he has far better wins and Josh is a multiple time steroid user who killed Affliction. Yet somehow despite there being no argument that makes any sense people seem to think he can win.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Come talk to me after the fight, breh. 

Or don't. Your silence will be satisfaction enough.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Come talk to me after the fight, breh.
> 
> Or don't. Your silence will be satisfaction enough.


How about a good old canadian sig bet?


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Barnett can roll with Mir for 5 rounds. I'm sure of it. He's also the (marginally) better striker and has a better chin.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Bresko, my friend, you crazy! Mir has better striking than Barnett and if it goes to the ground Barnett is in for a rough night. I predict Mir wins by barely outpointing Barnett in a boring decision. PS: go post in my tat thread I know u just got work done u cheeky bastard:
http://www.mmaforum.com/mma-forum-lounge/131457-tattoo-thread.html


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Yet somehow despite there being no argument that makes any sense people seem to think he can win.


His wrestling is much better than Mir's, and he has a good enough ground game to not get caught in any submissions. The stand-up is fairly even.


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## ProdigyPenn (Sep 9, 2011)

hellholming said:


> His wrestling is much better than Mir's, and he has a *good enough ground game* to not get caught in any submissions. The stand-up is fairly even.


I beg to differ. Nogueira probably got a even better ground game compared to Mir. Yet, he still got caught when he decided to roll with Mir. 

As for Stand-up, I would agree. It's pretty even. I say Mir will win this via decision.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Mir stuns Barnett, Barnett takes Mir down, Mir takes a limb home...simples.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Toxic said:


> Mir is the better grappler and striker all Josh has here is wrestling with a strong top game he might take it but I see Mir taking this unless it turns into a boring clinch fest.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


I don't see Mir winning at all here. It's not like he has the power or striking to really hurt Josh. He doesn't hit near as hard and isn't as good of a striker as Cormier. Josh should be able to take whatever Mir can dish out. Also Josh will be able to dictate where the fight takes place.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I don't care how good Barnett is on the ground, if he starts to feel comfortable, he'll lose an arm.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Rauno said:


> I don't care how good Barnett is on the ground, if he starts to feel comfortable, he'll lose an arm.


I disagree. Barnett isn't Brock Lesnar. He is very experienced and has rolled with better grapplers then Mir. I don't think Mir has a prayer of getting a sub off his back vs Barnett.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

hellholming said:


> His wrestling is much better than Mir's, and he has a good enough ground game to not get caught in any submissions. The stand-up is fairly even.


This. Plus his cardio/durablility which is WAAAAAY better than Mir's, should come into play. Many HW fights go the way of better cardio if there is no devastating KO in round 1. Barnett's cardio is much better than Mir's. And Barnett is one of the tougher guys in the division. Mir is not. 

Yes, he is losing to top guys for the most part, but he does NOTHING in those matches. Vs. DC he brought nothing. Vs. Lesnar and Carwin he could do nothing. Vs. JDS it was just a joke. The only fight in his last 6 where Mir looked good at all was vs. Roy Nelson. Where he had to use wrestling to control him for 3 rounds. Other than that he got lit up by Nog, bullied by Carwin, Lesnar, and DC, and out-classed and exposed as a one-dimensional BJJ guy by JDS. 

I love how people expect Mir to just land subs. Yes he is good on the ground...but what ways has he sub'd guys? The Nog sub was damn impressive. Choking out Kongo when he was already out? Kneebaring Lesnar when he was green as F, and gave him a leg to take? Subbing Hardonk, a kickboxer? Mir is sometimes a fat slob off his back and lets himself get GnP'd.



ProdigyPenn said:


> I beg to differ. Nogueira probably got a even better ground game compared to Mir. Yet, he still got caught when he decided to roll with Mir.
> 
> As for Stand-up, I would agree. It's pretty even. I say Mir will win this via decision.


See I don't understand why some people look at it this way. MMA math doesn't work, so why apply it to the grappling game? Yes, he reversed Big Nog who got way too comfortable and thought Mir had nothing left. That doesn't mean he can just sub anyone now. Sure he has the ability and expode for a sub, but is it probable? It isn't going to happen all the time. Josh Barnett is amazing on the ground. GSP sub'd Matt Hughes but then failed to sub Dan Hardy. It isn't a video game, if they go to the ground it isn't "oh Mir has a better rating in BJJ so that means he subs Josh". Josh is the much better wrestler and has a better top game. 

As for striking who knows. All I know is Mir looked awful vs. Big Nog. Yes, he has some flashes. Throwing a roundhouse kick into air when a fight starts is enough to get people to believe he has good striking.. His defense is terrible, his combo's make no sense, he really isn't that versatile, he will throw a couple kicks with no intention on them. His chin is at least suspect. His cardio is below average. Not saying Josh is some striker. But his chin and cardio at least make him more effective over the course of a fight. He may whether an early power punch, where as Mir might not. He will still be moving decent in teh 2nd and 3rd rounds. Mir probably will not. To me Mir is a robotic, too beefed up, wanna be striker. And his chin has taken a few beatings over the years.




Rauno said:


> I don't care how good Barnett is on the ground, if he starts to feel comfortable, he'll lose an arm.


Oh geez:sarcastic09: I am fully aware of how dangerous Mir can be on the ground. But if I have to listen to this cliche over and over again because of the Nog sub I will lose my mind. 

In many instances the catch wrestler not only out-grappled, but found a sub on the BJJ guy. Sakaraba vs. the Gracie's? Josh has HIGH level catch wrestling. I think he is fine where ever it goes. The more Mir gets tired the easier it will be for Josh to control him.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Toxic said:


> How about a good old canadian sig bet?
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


I'll take that bet on the condition that all anti-Chael sentiment is off the table.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Canadian Psycho said:


> I'll take that bet on the condition that all anti-Chael sentiment is off the table.


So you like Chael more then Hunt? Speaking of Hunt, time to get rid of this AV.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Canadian Psycho said:


> I'll take that bet on the condition that all anti-Chael sentiment is off the table.


It's on like donkey kong then. 


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## LikeABoss88 (Feb 3, 2013)

If Mir comes out aggressive on his feet and pressures Barnett to shoot in. He could do some damage. Or he can just K.O. Barnett, but Barnett isn't a slouch on his feet. He is a big guy, but if it hits the ground, or Barnett makes a mistake. Mir will submit him.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

LikeABoss88 said:


> If Mir comes out aggressive on his feet and pressures Barnett to shoot in. He could do some damage. *Or he can just K.O. Barnett*, but Barnett isn't a slouch on his feet. He is a big guy, but if it hits the ground, or Barnett makes a mistake. Mir will submit him.


I don't think Mir has the ability to KO Barnett. I would be shocked.


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## LikeABoss88 (Feb 3, 2013)

War Mir.


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## LikeABoss88 (Feb 3, 2013)

Mir can definitely KO Barnett. And he is coming off of two losses against fighters who have excellent striking and strength. If Mir loses, I will be shocked.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

LikeABoss88 said:


> Mir can definitely KO Barnett. And he is coming off of two losses against fighters who have excellent striking and strength. If Mir loses, I will be shocked.


I think you are completely wrong. Mir can't knock out Josh and you shouldn't be shocked if Josh wins. It's very possible that there was never a time where Mir was a better fighter then Josh. At any point.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

LikeABoss88 said:


> Mir can definitely KO Barnett. And he is coming off of two losses against fighters who have excellent striking and strength. If Mir loses, I will be shocked.


I don't understand what people see in Mir's striking. I really am baffled. I have always classified Mir as a below average striker. Maybe I'm missing something.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

OU said:


> I think you are completely wrong. Mir can't knock out Josh and you shouldn't be shocked if Josh wins. It's very possible that there was never a time where Mir was a better fighter then Josh. At any point.


Nope. Mir has probably always been better then josh. We really have no reason to think otherwise considering josh has beat cans and mir has been fighting quality opponents his entire career


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> Nope. Mir has probably always been better then josh. We really have no reason to think otherwise considering josh has beat cans and mir has been fighting quality opponents his entire career


They do have a very recent common opponent. I thought Josh looked much better vs DC then Mir did. Also Mir gets smashed by all the top fighters he faces. Sergei is more dangerous then CC(at that time) and Kongo.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

OU said:


> They do have a very recent common opponent. I thought Josh looked much better vs DC then Mir did. Also Mir gets smashed by all the top fighters he faces. Sergei is more dangerous then CC(at that time) and Kongo.


Sergei is a bum. Josh got whooped by dc even though dc broke his hand in the first round. Mir just got put on the fence. Mir also beat nog twice. Mir has average striking but barnetts is even worse.. he just throws paws trying to clinch or set up a shot. If it goes to the ground mir wins and barnett has nothing for him standing... this is such an obvious mismatch idk why anyone gives barnett the edge in any discipline


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> Sergei is a bum. Josh got whooped by dc even though dc broke his hand in the first round. Mir just got put on the fence. Mir also beat nog twice. Mir has average striking but barnetts is even worse.. he just throws paws trying to clinch or set up a shot. If it goes to the ground mir wins and barnett has nothing for him standing... this is such an obvious mismatch idk why anyone gives barnett the edge in any discipline


You are an obvious fanboy, I dislike both douchebags pretty equally. Mir got lucky as shit Nog went for a sub instead of finishing him off with strikes when he was dazed. 
As for Sergei, like I said he is a much more dangerous opponent then CC(at that time) and Kongo. Like I mentioned before when Mir fights the top level guys he gets destroyed. Mir got his ass beat by DC and if it goes 5 rounds like he Josh fight then he likely gets finished.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

OU said:


> They do have a very recent common opponent. I thought Josh looked much better vs DC then Mir did. Also Mir gets smashed by all the top fighters he faces. Sergei is more dangerous then CC(at that time) and Kongo.


Agree here. Sergei is better than anyone Mir has beat in a while. The Nog fight shows he can explode for a sub at any time. But it also showed his head movement blows. He is slow. His defense is terrible. As great/amazing of a sub as it was, you almost have to look at that fight as a negative when assessing Mir's current game. 

Just because he has faced top guys means little. He gets absolutely smashed by anyone good...and was on his way to being smashed vs. old Nog. 

You could say Barao had fought little in way of top fighters and Uriah was a vet who faced all of the best. Yet Barao went on to shut him out.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

OU said:


> You are an obvious fanboy, I dislike both douchebags pretty equally. Mir got lucky as shit Nog went for a sub instead of finishing him off with strikes when he was dazed.
> As for Sergei, like I said he is a much more dangerous opponent then CC(at that time) and Kongo. Like I mentioned before when Mir fights the top level guys he gets destroyed. Mir got his ass beat by DC and if it goes 5 rounds like he Josh fight then he likely gets finished.


I actually don't like either of them. Mir has been beat by people with a lot of power in their stand up. Nog is a great boxer and has significantly improved that part of his game. All I'm saying is josh doesn't have good enough stand up to give mir problems and he can't win on the ground. So that leaves his best chance of winning on the cage and I don't think he has the wrestling to keep mir there. I think this fight ends up looking like mir vs nelson


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> I actually don't like either of them. Mir has been beat by people with a lot of power in their stand up. Nog is a great boxer and has significantly improved that part of his game. All I'm saying is josh doesn't have good enough stand up to give mir problems and he can't win on the ground. So that leaves his best chance of winning on the cage and I don't think he has the wrestling to keep mir there. I think this fight ends up looking like mir vs nelson


Why in the world can't he win on the ground? You are saying he can't take him down stay out of subs? 

Niqqa please..

Not sure how many times Mir has to lose BADLY to good fighters for people to realize he isn't even a top 10 HW anymore.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Why in the world can't he win on the ground? You are saying he can't take him down stay out of subs?
> 
> Niqqa please..
> 
> Not sure how many times Mir has to lose BADLY to good fighters for people to realize he isn't even a top 10 HW anymore.


Nice joke. Who's the top 10? Cain, jds, bigfoot, overeem, hunt, werdum, and dc.ir beat roy, would beat struve. So give me 3 more guys that are obviously better than mir.

Mir is the 2nd best sub artist at hw so NO I do not think josh can keep from getting swept or subbed if he took mir down.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Just wanted to add ---> 

Things are starting to heat up!

Josh Barnett Warns Frank Mir 'Whatever He Leaves Behind, I'm Going to Take'

It's been more than a decade since Josh Barnett last competed in the UFC, but now with a new multi-fight deal in place, it's time for "The Warmaster" to go home again.

For years, Barnett has been one of the elite heavyweights in MMA, but always found himself on the outside looking in when compared to the top fighters in the UFC because he wasn't competing there. 

While the veteran fighter was pursued by several other organizations, ultimately the UFC was the spot Barnett always wanted to be, and now he gets to stake his claim as one of the best fighters in the sport while proving it on the biggest stage possible.

"I would lying if I didn't say that being in the UFC is the biggest show available, it's the one that's going to make the most impact," Barnett told Bleacher Report on Thursday. "I'm trying to be champion of the world, being anything less than the UFC heavyweight champion just doesn't have the same ring."

Prior to signing with the UFC last week, Barnett mentioned in an interview with Bleacher Report that the name that made the most sense for his return to the Octagon would be a showdown against fellow former champion Frank Mir. 

Much to his surprise, Barnett found out just days ago that not only would he actually get to face Mir in his UFC return, but it was the former heavyweight champion who requested the bout with him at UFC 164 in Milwaukee.

"I don't think Frank is the kind of guy that's afraid of fighting anyone. He's gone in there and broke a guy's arm, he's gone in there and practically seen his life flash before his eyes," Barnett said about Mir. "He knows the deal, this is nothing new to him. He's not going to sweat it. At the same time he wants to go out and test himself, and he wants to fight the people that are going to take him further along in his career and closer to the gold again. He knows it's a big fight and I'm sure all the people that are telling me they wanted to see me fight Frank Mir for so long, they've been telling him the exact same thing on my behalf. It just worked out perfectly.

"I kind of like that somebody deliberately asked to fight me because that's a very rare thing."

Before the fight between the two heavyweight submission specialists was made official, Mir said in an interview with El Octagono that he thought a fight against Barnett would be "phenomenal" and something the fans would really enjoy.

He also didn't mind mentioning Barnett's proclivity to use his ground game, and Mir welcomed the challenge, although he didn't expect his opponent to feel the same way once they got on the mat together.

"I think he's not afraid to grapple with me," Mir said. "Which I think would be one of his downfalls."

Barnett could only smile when he heard about Mir's comments because it will make the victory at UFC 164 just that much sweeter.

"I like a man that's confident in his abilities and believes in himself when he gets out there and thinks he possesses the best weapons to bring to this battle, but that just makes it even better when you go out there and show them how wrong they are," Barnett stated. "He's not going to try and lay and pray me, I know that for a fact. I'm looking forward to that. I'd rather go out there with someone whose trying to kill me, than try to beat me by decision. The idea of him trying to take me down is great. I live for that."

Mir is famous for pre-fight banter where he threatens to go home with an opponent's arm or leg, depending on which submission he happens to catch. Mir has backed up his talk in several past fights, including when he won the UFC heavyweight title by snapping former champion Tim Sylvia's arm, or more recently at UFC 140 when he broke Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira's arm in the Octagon.

This time around, Barnett warns Mir that it might be him that goes home with an ailing limb.

"He's been the one that's been sitting back and talking about taking limbs home," Barnett stated. "He's going to have to watch out for his own right now."

The show is just getting rolling between these two heavyweight icons and it's only likely to get better between now and when UFC 164 actually happens in August. Barnett has a skill to promote a fight like few do in the MMA world, and he's got an opponent that gives as good as he gets.

One thing Barnett knows for sure is that when his walkout song courtesy of his favorite band Bolt Thrower hits the speakers, and the crowd in Milwaukee is on their feet, he will give them a show for the ages.

"Whatever he leaves behind, I'm going to take. To the spoils of war always go to the victor, whatever's left is mine to claim," Barnett said about Mir. "The Warmaster is setting a black crusade upon the UFC again."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...letter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=mma


----------



## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> Nice joke. Who's the top 10? Cain, jds, bigfoot, overeem, hunt, werdum, and dc.ir beat roy, would beat struve. *So give me 3 more guys that are obviously better than mir.*
> 
> Mir is the 2nd best sub artist at hw so NO I do not think josh can keep from getting swept or subbed if he took mir down.


Hunt,Barnett, Browne, I'd probably take AA to knock his ass out as well. Mir doesn't have the wrestling to keep him down like Rumble did.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> Nice joke. Who's the top 10? Cain, jds, bigfoot, overeem, hunt, werdum, and dc.ir beat roy, would beat struve. So give me 3 more guys that are obviously better than mir.
> 
> Mir is the 2nd best sub artist at hw so NO I do not think josh can keep from getting swept or subbed if he took mir down.


He may be ranked top 10 based on name. But he wouldn't beat Travis Browne now. I bet he would lose to Roy in a rematch. 

Mir hasn't evolved. So what if he is a elite BJJ player? He can't get fights to the ground. Roger Gracie may be the best BJJ player in MMA, yet he probably won't ever be a top 10 MW. 

And Barnett is one of the best grapplers in the MMA HW division. Damian Maia had Fitch's back for 3 whole rounds yet couldn't sub him. Having a top BJJ game doesn't automatically mean you can sub anyone you want. Barnett has never been sub'd in his life and is one of the best catch wrestlers to ever compete in MMA. Other than Nog, Mir has sub'd white belts like Lesnar, Kongo, and Hardonk. Big deal. Barnett as well versed in submission grappling as anyone really.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Why in the world can't he win on the ground? You are saying he can't take him down stay out of subs?
> 
> Niqqa please..
> 
> Not sure how many times Mir has to lose BADLY to good fighters for people to realize he isn't even a top 10 HW anymore.


When he keeps beating the 5-15 guys and getting crushed by the top 5 it still makes him top 10 the fact he will never be a top 5 guy again is irrelevant. 


OU said:


> You are an obvious fanboy, I dislike both douchebags pretty equally. Mir got lucky as shit Nog went for a sub instead of finishing him off with strikes when he was dazed.
> *As for Sergei, like I said he is a much more dangerous opponent then CC(at that time) and Kongo.* Like I mentioned before when Mir fights the top level guys he gets destroyed. Mir got his ass beat by DC and if it goes 5 rounds like he Josh fight then he likely gets finished.


 Sergei may have been as good a striker as either man at that point but lets get real even Kongo laughs at Sergei's lack of TD defense. CC however far he had fell could still stuff the odd TD and knew how to defend a submission something Sergei could only dream about. I never knew where this idea that Kharinitov was a good fighter came from, I remember when he fought Monson and every one thought he was gonna kill him and I said they were all craze. I don't even think it took two minutes for Monson to take him down and tap him out and while Monson is agreat grappler he isn't the strongest wrestler. While on the topic of Monson though does anyone remember him dropping Barnett standing? The same Monson who has exactly 3 knock outs in over 60 fights and not a single one over a relevant fighter. Barnett was the better wrestler and managed to use control to beat Monson but he couldn't do anything to do any real damage to Monson who for all his grappling accolades has little offense from his back.



OU said:


> Hunt,Barnett, Browne, I'd probably take AA to knock his ass out as well. Mir doesn't have the wrestling to keep him down like Rumble did.


Who you think is better does not make rankings, who beat who does. And who Mir has beaten makes him a top 10 HW like it or not.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Toxic said:


> When he keeps beating the 5-15 guys and getting crushed by the top 5 it still makes him top 10 the fact he will never be a top 5 guy again is irrelevant.
> 
> Who you think is better does not make rankings, who beat who does. And who Mir has beaten makes him a top 10 HW like it or not.


The top 5 HW door is revolving. Brock isn't even in MMA anymore and was exposed as a guy with no striking vs. Cain and Reem. Carwin has 1 good win in his life....vs. Mir. JDS is a beast. DC is a beats.

A win over Kongo from 4 years ago, Roy from a couple years ago, and a come from behind win after getting owned on the feet by Nog can't stay relevant for ever. His last 4 wins 2 are guys who aren't even doing MMA anymore. 1 where he smothered Roy and couldn't come close to a sub. And the other was a come from behind stunning win over a guy most people say is washed up. 

But you guys can keep slurping Mir as if he is still a top guy. Just because he gets big fights (because he is a big name) doesn't mean he is still a top fighter. Mir is basically a punching bag for the UFC to use to prop fighters...DC was a recent example. He has BJJ but can't get fights to the ground. So keep hanging onto the false hope that he is even a decent striker. If he wants to slug it out and test chins, I'm sure Barnett would be more than willing to see who's holds up. 

Barnett is going to wreck Mir, and hopefully people will wake up and stop expecting Mir to sub everyone.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> The top 5 HW door is revolving. Brock isn't even in MMA anymore and was exposed as a guy with no striking vs. Cain and Reem. Carwin has 1 good win in his life....vs. Mir. JDS is a beast. DC is a beats.
> 
> A win over Kongo from 4 years ago, Roy from a couple years ago, and a come from behind win after getting owned on the feet by Nog can't stay relevant for ever. His last 4 wins 2 are guys who aren't even doing MMA anymore. 1 where he smothered Roy and couldn't come close to a sub. And the other was a come from behind stunning win over a guy most people say is washed up.
> 
> ...


And yet all those guys Mir faced were top 10 at the time because of wins and losses you can mock the guys Mir faced but Josh Barnett has not beaten a relevant HW in 7 years. The last top 20 HW he fought before DC was when he lost to Nog 2 months after that win over Nog. Mir fighting cans? Who the hell is Nandor Guelmino? Geronimo dos Santos? Mighty Mo he submitted in the fist round? So did Semmy Schilt so whoopity doo. Brett Rogers? The guy Eddie Sanchez beat and the guy who was scoming off a controversial decision over Ruben Villareal?
Kongo, Nelson, Lesnar and Carwin would all run through everyone Barnett has beaten since Pride with so much ease that it would be absurd. The fact that we have to talk about PRIDE to give Josh a meaningful win says all you have to know.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

Ok just sheer ignorance. Brock lesnar a white belt? You've got to be shitting yourself or never done any type of grappling in your life. GREAT wrestling can and does negate bjj. Weve seen it plenty. Maia vs munoz for example. Jon jones is a white belt too, guess he sucks at grappling. 

Barnett might pull off a win but it will definitely not be by domination.

Edit : just thought about lesnar vs dc. That would be an awesome fight


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> Ok just sheer ignorance. Brock lesnar a white belt? You've got to be shitting yourself or never done any type of grappling in your life. GREAT wrestling can and does negate bjj. Weve seen it plenty. Maia vs munoz for example. Jon jones is a white belt too, guess he sucks at grappling.
> 
> Barnett might pull off a win but it will definitely not be by domination.
> 
> Edit : just thought about lesnar vs dc. That would be an awesome fight


I just thought of Lesnar/Barnett and what a beat down that would have been since Josh doesn't have half a good of guard as Mir.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> Barnett might pull off a win but it will definitely not be by domination.
> 
> Edit : just thought about lesnar vs dc. That would be an awesome fight


No it wouldn't DC would stuff Brock and then Ko him fight over .


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

I pick Barnett.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Bknmax said:


> No it wouldn't DC would stuff Brock and then Ko him fight over .


I am not near as sure, I suspect it but the size difference would be huge, lets not forget DC is quite a bit smaller than even Cain. We are talking almost Randy/Brock size difference.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Toxic said:


> I am not near as sure, I suspect it but the size difference would be huge, lets not forget DC is quite a bit smaller than even Cain. We are talking almost Randy/Brock size difference.


Yeah but DC hits harder then Brock, Cain, Randy and most HWs. DC is so much better then Brock it's not even funny. Even at Brock's peak he would get folded by DC who is better at everything.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

OU said:


> Yeah but DC hits harder then Brock, Cain, Randy and most HWs. DC is so much better then Brock it's not even funny. Even at Brock's peak he would get folded by DC who is better at everything.


You sure DC hits harder than Cain? I think Cain has excellent technique and technique = power.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Toxic said:


> You sure DC hits harder than Cain? I think Cain has excellent technique and technique = power.


I can't be "sure". But it appears that way to me. I would LOVE to see them fight eachother. But IMO DC packs more pop in his punches. Not saying he is the better striker of the two. Just IMO more likely to land the KO shot.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Toxic said:


> And yet all those guys Mir faced were top 10 at the time because of wins and losses you can mock the guys Mir faced but Josh Barnett has not beaten a relevant HW in 7 years. The last top 20 HW he fought before DC was when he lost to Nog 2 months after that win over Nog. Mir fighting cans? Who the hell is Nandor Guelmino? Geronimo dos Santos? Mighty Mo he submitted in the fist round? So did Semmy Schilt so whoopity doo. Brett Rogers? The guy Eddie Sanchez beat and the guy who was scoming off a controversial decision over Ruben Villareal?
> Kongo, Nelson, Lesnar and Carwin would all run through everyone Barnett has beaten since Pride with so much ease that it would be absurd. The fact that we have to talk about PRIDE to give Josh a meaningful win says all you have to know.


Quit putting words in my mouth. I didn't say Mir has fought cans. So no need to spaz out as if I did. I was pointing out that just because Mir loses to anyone good doesn't mean he is still a top guy. He fights good fighters...and loses BADLY to anyone that is in or near the top 5. 

You can sit here and play MMA math all you want and act like I said Mir fights no one. He simply looks like ass vs. anyone good. He looked like straight ass vs. Old Nog before craziness happened. As slow as Nog is these days...Mir looked twice as slow. 

Hopefully you come back after Barnett lays a beatdown and tell us about how Mir has only lost to top guys. I bet the books will have Barnett a 2 to 1 favorite starting out.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

man i love fights like this where people are completely divided. this is what good match making does! can't wait for this fight! I still think mir takes it but you guys are convincing me it might be competitive.

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## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

I think both are around the same talent level but voted Barnett because I think he is more hungry and will come in better prepared.


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## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

Barnett will win this, and i think this may well be Mir's last fight in the UFC.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

You do all realize that this will be a god damn awful fight, right?


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> You do all realize that this will be a god damn awful fight, right?


hey Nostradamus, don't ruin it for the rest of us!


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## MMATycoon (Aug 15, 2011)

I don't understand why so many people hate Mir. I think he deserves more respect then he gets. Disrespecting him also disrespects anyone he ever beat or who beat him.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

MMATycoon said:


> I don't understand why so many people hate Mir.


Smug? TRT? Gutless? Shall I continue?


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## MMATycoon (Aug 15, 2011)

Soojooko said:


> Smug? TRT? Gutless? Shall I continue?


Smug is subject to perception. He didn't start TRT until 2012 however I am aware that his size has lead many to suspect he was on roids long before that.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

MMATycoon said:


> Smug is subject to perception. He didn't start TRT until 2012 however I am aware that his size has lead many to suspect he was on roids long before that.


You dont think Frank Mir is smug? Really? :confused02:

But anyway... he has more then enough about him to make him dislikeable. Not that difficult to understand, no?

The best thing Frank Mir ever did was take that beating from Lesnar after trashing him for two solid months... leadng on to this magical moment:-


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## MMATycoon (Aug 15, 2011)

Soojooko said:


> You dont think Frank Mir is smug? Really? :confused02:
> 
> But anyway... he has more then enough about him to make him dislikeable. Not that difficult to understand, no?
> 
> The best thing Frank Mir ever did was take that beating from Lesnar after trashing him for two solid months... leadng on to this magical moment:-


I had stopped watching MMA for a few years and only started watching again around the time of this fight. I was fascinated when I heard Brock was not just getting owned as I thought he would so that peaked my interest in the sport again. I guess i missed out on this moment then.


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

I'll be hoping for a double knock out.

But gun to my head, I'd bet on Mir.


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## LikeABoss88 (Feb 3, 2013)

Fact: Barnett is under matched rolling with Mir. Barnett might have good TDD, that will help if Mir feels threatened on the feet.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRvGZffXhfk

ATC - All Around The World (lalalalala)

Barnett should be training at the AKA because knocking Mir out is his only chance.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Mir gon get retired.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Soojooko said:


> You do all realize that this will be a god damn awful fight, right?


You ought to be used to 'god damn awful'. You live in England - the land of cloudy skies, bland food, sub-par dentistry, and the black lung. 

:hug:


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I'm going with Barnett.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Am I the only one who thinks Frank Mir is most frustrating fighter to cheer for? The guy has all the tools to be great would show glimpse of his potential, then would look like an average fighter.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> You ought to be used to 'god damn awful'. You live in England - the land of cloudy skies, bland food, sub-par dentistry, and the black lung.
> 
> :hug:


Canada :thumb03:


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## Godzuki (Feb 26, 2007)

I think Barnett get's in his face early, maybe catches the odd shot. I think he'll rely on his wrestling to take it to the fence, lot's of dirty boxing/clinch work. Mir eventually get's blooded up, gas's and keep's getting taken down and beat up on until the end. Decision to Barnett...That's how I see it.


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## Nineapes (Nov 21, 2011)

Godzuki said:


> I think Barnett get's in his face early, maybe catches the odd shot. I think he'll rely on his wrestling to take it to the fence, lot's of dirty boxing/clinch work. Mir eventually get's blooded up, gas's and keep's getting taken down and beat up on until the end. Decision to Barnett...That's how I see it.


I was going to write this, now i don't have too.


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## Jesy Blue (May 8, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> You don't think Frank Mir is smug? Really?


of course he is... that's kind of the appeal for me. but then again josh is also smug, so it's kind of a smug off!


i'm just gonna say this: 
most of josh's victories are by sub vs. mir's never been submitted.

most of mir's victories are by sub vs. josh's only been "submitted" by tapping out to strikes from Cro Cop, so really also never been subbed.


what i'm hoping for is a HW BJJ clinic as they both just transition from hold to position to counter to sweep to hold until something snaps on someone!

personally, i want mir to take another limb home; getting into the UFC will cost you an arm and a leg!


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

How is Frank Mir not smug? That is like saying KJ Noons isn't smug.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Jesy Blue said:


> of course he is... that's kind of the appeal for me.  but then again josh is also smug, so it's kind of a smug off!


Dont get me wrong... I like smug. But only when the fighter is awesome. Mir is not awesome.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Barnett opened at -230. He is now -270.

Mir is the sizable underdog.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I hope the line keeps moving for the fight more money for me when Mir wins. 


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Last I checked the line was back down to -230 and has settled. About the kind of line I figured this would be.

Barnett is the rightful favorite in my eyes. Mir isn't that good. Barnett is 5x tougher with much better cardio and Mir really has no glaring advantage.


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## GDPofDRB (Apr 18, 2013)

-250 Barnett and +200 Mir sounds perfect for this fight to me.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Last I checked the line was back down to -230 and has settled. About the kind of line I figured this would be.
> 
> Barnett is the rightful favorite in my eyes. Mir isn't that good. Barnett is 5x tougher with much better cardio and Mir really has no glaring advantage.


other than being the better grappler and striker as well as having more power? Barnett has the wrestling to choose his poison but I can't see him winning either game. Josh's best bet is to take Frank down and hold on for dear life cause its the only chance he has.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Toxic said:


> other than being the better grappler and striker as well as having more power? Barnett has the wrestling to choose his poison but I can't see him winning either game. Josh's best bet is to take Frank down and hold on for dear life cause its the only chance he has.


Oh God, you overrate Mir so much. He is not a better grappler...Grappling includes wrestling. And Barnett is good enough to stay out of submissions. 

His only chance...lol. Yea that is why he is over a 2 to 1 favorite. You are one of those guys living off the fact he dropped the very overrated Kongo who had his hands down scared to be taken down. Keep a hold of that one tight! Mir's striking is God awful.

Come back to eat crow once the very average Frank Mur gasses and wilts.


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

Only thing Barnett has on Mir is his chin.. definitely better takedowns too but worse jitz so the grappling still goes to Mir.. i have a feeling this is going to be a lot closer fight than everyone is thinking...


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

I feel we have a lot of UFC fanboys trying to hold onto Mir's career. 

Mir's reverse Kimura win over Nog has really clouded people's judement. Yes he is dangerous with subs. But before that...look at his sub wins over the last few years. He rocked Kongo then choked him out...easy sub. He kneebar'd the Greenest fighter in UFC history in Lesnar. Who gave him a leg. He sub'd Hardonk....a kickboxer. 

If Nog just keep GnPing to victory, no one is this crazy about Mir's subs over kickboxers and a WWE star. And Mir's striking is terrible. He got straight LIT UP by Nog last time they fought with ZERO head movement. 

Barnett can out last Mir, he could take him down and do work, he could beat him on the feet. Hell he can easily hold Mir against the cage, as Mir sucks in that position. Barnett has a much better chin as well. 

Cardio/Chin means a ton in a HW fight. And people are underestimating catch wrestling in favor of the flashier BJJ of Mir. People seem to forget Sakaraba using catch sub'd Gracie's. Catch wrestling is more useful in MMA than BJJ is. Not sure why people under-estimate Josh's skills on the ground. They see some amazing bone snapping subs from Mir and they get all giddy like a 12 year old. 

Mir will not sub Josh. Take it to the bank. And being on bottom doesn't win fights.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

JohnnyG is correct. Barnett can beat Mir on the feet or he can hold him on the ground and beat him up while avoiding submissions. If Mir gets too battered from the GnP he might end up being choked out in a head and arm.

I really see Mir standing about a 6% chance in this fight and I will be betting my 160 million+ credits all on this fight.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I think a lot of people are leaving out something we know about both men: They can very easily come in and under perform. Both men are known for sort of 'calling it in' for certain fights. The reason behind it? I dunno. Bad weight cut, personal drama, who cares?

If they both show up then I think Barnett will probably decision Mir, but I won't bet anything on this fight because of the fact that both fighters have a history of inconsistency.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I feel we have a lot of UFC fanboys trying to hold onto Mir's career.


 As opposed to what maybe Pride fan boys holding on to Josh because that was the last time he did anything relevant.



> Mir's reverse Kimura win over Nog has really clouded people's judement. Yes he is dangerous with subs. But before that...look at his sub wins over the last few years. He rocked Kongo then choked him out...easy sub. He kneebar'd the Greenest fighter in UFC history in Lesnar. Who gave him a leg. He sub'd Hardonk....a kickboxer.


 Because those are obviously worse than subs over fighters we have never heard of, and one dimensional strikers. Even green Lesnar had better sub defense than Brett Rogers.


> If Nog just keep GnPing to victory, no one is this crazy about Mir's subs over kickboxers and a WWE star. And Mir's striking is terrible. He got straight LIT UP by Nog last time they fought with ZERO head movement.


 Barnett also has no head movement and is rather robotic and stiff. 


> Barnett can out last Mir, he could take him down and do work, he could beat him on the feet. Hell he can easily hold Mir against the cage, as Mir sucks in that position. Barnett has a much better chin as well.


 The fact your banking on him outlasting Mir basically implies to me that you feel Mir is better. 


> Cardio/Chin means a ton in a HW fight. And people are underestimating catch wrestling in favor of the flashier BJJ of Mir. People seem to forget Sakaraba using catch sub'd Gracie's. Catch wrestling is more useful in MMA than BJJ is. Not sure why people under-estimate Josh's skills on the ground. They see some amazing bone snapping subs from Mir and they get all giddy like a 12 year old.
> 
> Mir will not sub Josh. Take it to the bank. And being on bottom doesn't win fights.


Chin means more when your opponent has real knock out power something Josh has not really showed ever. I am not underrating catch wrestling I am just not impressed by the ability to control and pound out or submit complete scrubs.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Because those are obviously worse than subs over fighters we have never heard of, and one dimensional strikers. Even green Lesnar had better sub defense than Brett Rogers.
> Barnett also has no head movement and is rather robotic and stiff.
> The fact your banking on him outlasting Mir basically implies to me that you feel Mir is better.
> 
> ...


I didn't say Barnett would sub Mir. You seem to think subs are all that constitutes grappling. Who cares who's subs are better? Fact is both have more than enough knowledge to stay out of others subs. And Barnett is much better at being on top and control. Along with a decent pace that Mir cannot match. So in any sort of grappling exchange, I favor Barnett. Barnett has just as much knowledge of the ground game as Mir. And he would be the one on top.

Banking on him outlast Mir? As I said, I feel Barnett can out-strike Mir who I feel is vastly overrated standing. I feel he can win in clinch scenarios against teh cage. I said I think he can take Mir down and control/GnP/stay out of subs. Or I could simply see him outlasting Mir and totally dominating him in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, because Barnett in my eyes can dig much deeper than Mir. Where as Mir gives up when the going gets tough. 

Barnett can win in a number of ways as I have said. I favor Barnett in every aspect other than pure BJJ subs/off his back. And their striking is a wash basically. But I would favor Barnett standing since he is tougher, has a better chin, and doesn't quit. Mir looked horrible vs. Nog until that sub.

Should be a fun fight anyway.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I didn't say Barnett would sub Mir. You seem to think subs are all that constitutes grappling. Who cares who's subs are better? Fact is both have more than enough knowledge to stay out of others subs. And Barnett is much better at being on top and control. Along with a decent pace that Mir cannot match. So in any sort of grappling exchange, I favor Barnett. Barnett has just as much knowledge of the ground game as Mir. And he would be the one on top.
> 
> Banking on him outlast Mir? As I said, I feel Barnett can out-strike Mir who I feel is vastly overrated standing. I feel he can win in clinch scenarios against teh cage. I said I think he can take Mir down and control/GnP/stay out of subs. Or I could simply see him outlasting Mir and totally dominating him in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, because Barnett in my eyes can dig much deeper than Mir. Where as Mir gives up when the going gets tough.
> 
> ...


So Nog was dominating Mir till he came back but Mir quits when the going gets tough? You do realize the contradiction there right?


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Toxic said:


> So Nog was dominating Mir till he came back but Mir quits when the going gets tough? You do realize the contradiction there right?


That was impressive and shocking as hell. But he has quit or simply accepted losing far more times.

Just last fight for DC. He felt outmatched. Yet tried nothing different, just letting himself get backed up and beat on. As if he just accepted the fact that DC was better. People raved about him and Greg Jackson teaming up. Yet in the end he just conceded defeat with no apparent gameplan.


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

Don't see how Mir beats Barnett. People seem to forget Barnett went 5 hard rounds with Cormier who just beat Mir's ass.


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

Barnett looked worse against Cormier than Mir did...


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## REiN (Mar 30, 2008)

ptw said:


> Don't see how Mir beats Barnett. People seem to forget Barnett went 5 hard rounds with Cormier who just beat Mir's ass.


 I know man, its almost like most people dismiss mma math or something :confused02:


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## evilappendix (Jan 4, 2007)

This fight could really go either way. I voted for Josh because Pride Never Die! That, and I think his catch wrestling credentials are being overlooked. Dude was very close to subbing Big Nog in the open weight tourney(years ago I know...) and can take a decent ass whooping. Mir is still a threat but I felt like Josh had the slight edge.


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