# Mark Hunt switching to vegan diet after animal cruelty video



## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

http://www.bjpenn.com/ufc-heavyweight-going-vegan-this-is-why-graphic/

Just when I thought Mark Hunt couldn't get any more awesome.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Him going vegan won't change a thing, it'll make him feel better because he's not buying from that market, but it won't change the techniques used to feed an over-populated planet.

As a long time athlete, this could be a huge task for him, if he's regularly eaten meat until now.

I use the term 'meat' loosely, very few people can claim to eat properly farmed and produced meat.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

SM33 said:


> Him going vegan won't change a thing, it'll make him feel better because he's not buying from that market, but it won't change the techniques used to feed an over-populated planet.
> 
> As a long time athlete, this could be a huge task for him, if he's regularly eaten meat until now.


Of course it will change things. It will mean less pigs dying because of his diet alone. 

Your life amounts to nothing more than a drop in a limitless ocean. Yet what is any ocean, but a multitude of drops?


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Of course it will change things. It will mean less pigs dying because of his diet alone.
> 
> Your life amounts to nothing more than a drop in a limitless ocean. Yet what is any ocean, but a multitude of drops?


The ocean is the home of my future cod dinners.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Of course it will change things. It will mean less pigs dying because of his diet alone.
> 
> 
> 
> Your life amounts to nothing more than a drop in a limitless ocean. Yet what is any ocean, but a multitude of drops?



The same amount of pigs will die. Someone will buy the meat he isn't buying anymore. Him not eating meat doesn't save any animals, the meat he would have bought will still be there, just bought by someone else. 

As for the change, if thats what he wants to do then good for him. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

We can't force evolution down the throats of human kind. Humans are still savages in many aspects and eating meat is one of them.

I truly see people who actually do not eat meat in order to save animals lives being a step ahead *in this very particular regard*, which is far from meaning they are more evolved in other aspects in comparison to the rest of humanity. We all have progress to make and seek in all areas.

People thinking about quitting for the same purpose of saving animals lives, but still not able to do it for various reasons, I personally think are moving to the right direction, however, they will find themselves on the trickiest spot, because from time to time, they will feel guilty for what they are doing. 

Finally, those who are still eating meat, with a clear conscience they are doing nothing wrong, are being just what they are: normal human beings, feeding from meat as many other animals do in our planet. After all, there's nothing immoral on being a meat eating animal, so I'll cut them some slack (pun not intended, but we clearly have one here).


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Props to Mark hunt, but the real issue is global overpopulation. Sustainability simply isn't possible at the current path mankind is on. The evidence is there in full force, anyone who disagrees simply doesn't want to believe it. Eventually the planet will cleanse itself as it has before throughout history but probably after I'm dead.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

M.C said:


> The same amount of pigs will die. Someone will buy the meat he isn't buying anymore. Him not eating meat doesn't save any animals, the meat he would have bought will still be there, just bought by someone else.
> 
> As for the change, if thats what he wants to do then good for him.
> 
> ...


You don't seem to understand the concept of demand and supply. No if he isn't eating, someone else won't magically appear to take his place who wasn't already eating meat before. In the macro picture, the more people that don't consume a commodity, the less demand there is, the less manufacturers supply.... they're not gonna expand facilities if they can't sell the product. Maybe it's not exact, like manufacturers won't scale down the moment a single customer goes away, but a handful, even a dozen can scale down local demand in a shop or region, and hundreds can cascade up. It all adds up. It's not rocket science, it's Economics 101. Every product is subject to it.

RS is right, this would probably mean a pig / cow / chicken or two not being tortured or dying early over the course of his lifetime. 

Good for him.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

You all just take the world waaaaaaay too seriously.


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## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

Thumbs up to Hunt from a fellow non-meat eater. Perhaps he'll even lose some weight in the process. :thumbsup:



M.C said:


> The same amount of pigs will die. Someone will buy the meat he isn't buying anymore. Him not eating meat doesn't save any animals, the meat he would have bought will still be there, just bought by someone else.
> 
> As for the change, if thats what he wants to do then good for him.


Maybe it's not as easy as saying that one less pig per year is going to the slaughterhouse if that's the amount of meat he eat yearly. But surely you agree with the fact that the meat economy is driven by supply and demand like any other market? When demand goes down the suppliers have to adjust to meet the new demand in order to be most profitable. Of course this is all hard to measure, especially when we're talking about the effect of one person which is very small compared to the whole industry. But saying it has no effect at all is not really plausible.



Sportsman 2.0 said:


> Finally, those who are still eating meat, with a clear conscience they are doing nothing wrong, are being just what they are: normal human beings, feeding from meat as many other animals do in our planet. After all, *there's nothing immoral on being a meat eating animal*, so I'll cut them some slack (pun not intended, but we clearly have one here).


The difference is that a lion isn't capable of choosing any other diet and therefore cannot be blamed for doing what it does. Most people on the other hand have that capacity.


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

Rygu said:


> Props to Mark hunt, but the real issue is global overpopulation. Sustainability simply isn't possible at the current path mankind is on. The evidence is there in full force, anyone who disagrees simply doesn't want to believe it. Eventually the planet will cleanse itself as it has before throughout history but probably after I'm dead.


What does overpopulation have to do with animal cruelty? The link isn't clear to me.


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## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> You all just take the world waaaaaaay too seriously.


I'm sure you'd say the same thing if you lived your life like one of those pigs.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> You all just take the world waaaaaaay too seriously.


Too seriously? Have you ever stopped to consider how it would feel to have another being shove an electric rod up your anal cavity and frying you from the inside out?

Ever wondered how it would feel to see your family members - mum, dad, siblings, violently locked into cages - beaten, tortured, murdered and then eaten by some one else?

The world isn't some hippy, dippy fcking place where Nazi Germany and the holocaust happened on some far away land a millennia ago that has no chance of ever occurring again. 

It sounds like you're living in a fcking dream world. Some fantasy land where murder, torture, ****, genocide and the worst crimes imaginable only exist in foreign countries far away from your precious illusory bubble of reality. Or in the movies, books or on television shows.

Surely one cannot be this naive as to the horrors of the real world that are present every single day.

Clyde Bankz, you are the living, breathing, walking, talking definition of the word ignorance - and no, it isn't fcking bliss.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Too seriously? Have you ever stopped to consider how it would feel to have another being shove an electric rod up your anal cavity and frying you from the inside out?
> 
> Ever wondered how it would feel to see your family members - mum, dad, siblings, violently locked into cages - beaten, tortured, murdered and then eaten by some one else?
> 
> ...



^ ...well it is for him. It's only hard on the rest of us.


don't take it too hard clyde he's a little temperamental and dramatical sometimes. he told me i was the most immature oldman he ever encountered or some such crazy ass shit.

1million credits says Hunt blows up like a balloon and looks like shit.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

oldfan said:


> ^ ...well it is for him. It's only hard on the rest of us.
> 
> 
> don't take it too hard clyde he's a little temperamental and dramatical sometimes. he told me i was the most immature oldman he ever encountered or some such crazy ass shit.
> ...


I'll take it, if he sticks to it. Easy fake money .

I don't know a single person that GAINED weight going off meat ... usually they lose it. 

The danger of course is him losing muscle and being low on protein for such a big guy, especially going full vegan without milk etc. but there are ways to get plenty if you know what you're doing.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> I'll take it, if he sticks to it. Easy fake money .
> 
> I don't know a single person that GAINED weight going off meat ... usually they lose it.
> 
> The danger of course is him losing muscle and being low on protein for such a big guy, especially going full vegan without milk etc. but there are ways to get plenty if you know what you're doing.


The few people that I know personally who gave up meat got fat on bread, pasta and sugar. Every one of them. Mark isn't the type to give up eating. now he'll have more room for things that are actually bad for him (unlike meat). :dunno:


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Rygu said:


> Props to Mark hunt, *but the real issue is global overpopulation. Sustainability simply isn't possible at the current path mankind is on.* The evidence is there in full force, anyone who disagrees simply doesn't want to believe it. Eventually the planet will cleanse itself as it has before throughout history but probably after I'm dead.


True fact. There's not a single move toward controlling the population in Brazil and that is one of the biggest complains I have against this political system. 

Guess where these kids are being born? Yes, favelas and poor areas, immersed in all sort of bad things like starvation, criminality, lack of hygiene, basic education. So while medium class folks like me and my wife would have brains to, at least choose the number of kids we can afford to raise, in our case, two, those poor ladies will have 5, 10, 15 kids each, with many different fathers that won't stick around for their children, and the govern would pay those kids like 50 or 60 dollars each as a "support" to their families and as soon as they are 16 years old, these poor teens would pay them back with their votes and thus keeping those in power ruling forever. 

So, basically they are just buying the votes of the poors using money financed by taxes collected from the working class, without giving them any once of real dignity.



Nomale said:


> The difference is that a lion isn't capable of choosing any other diet and therefore cannot be blamed for doing what it does. Most people on the other hand have that capacity.


Go back to my post, please. I have roughly divided people as in three stages of evolution. You just spoke about the third group and no, this third group isn't capable of choosing any other diet yet. Just like the lion, this group of people absolutely can't see what is wrong in killing pigs to eat, so, they can't be blamed, just like the lion can't.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> I'll take it, if he sticks to it. Easy fake money .
> 
> I don't know a single person that GAINED weight going off meat ... usually they lose it.
> 
> The danger of course is him losing muscle and being low on protein for such a big guy, especially going full vegan without milk etc. but there are ways to get plenty if you know what you're doing.


why would you need milk? I'm not even close to vegan, but that's like the least necessary animal product out there, despite the giant ad campaign by the Dairy Farmers of America that is heavily subsized by our government. It's very easy to dietarily replace the nutrients in cow milk, and frankly unless a person leads a terrible diet in the firstplace probably doesn't even need to be changed at all.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Sportsman 2.0 said:


> People thinking about quitting for the same purpose of saving animals lives, but still not able to do it for various reasons, I personally think are moving to the right direction, however, they will find themselves on the trickiest spot, because from time to time, they will feel guilty for what they are doing.


That sums me up perfectly.

I am ready to quit eating meat, simply because the thought of the mass culling of animals, and the conditions they live in is immoral.

However, the wife and daughter love eating it... as do I. But the second I start thinking about the animal it puts me off my food.

I'm against sport hunting but respect to those who hunt their own food. I think killing my food is the only way I could keep my concious clean.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Spite said:


> That sums me up perfectly.
> 
> I am ready to quit eating meat, simply because the thought of the mass culling of animals, and the conditions they live in is immoral.
> 
> ...


I can respect the hunter who goes and cleanly kills his food, no pain or suffering with respect for nature. What I cannot stand in any shape or form is factory farming, or hunting for sport. Both are cancers of this planet and a big reason why natural disasters don't bother me regardless of where they are. Humans **** this planet up, animals never ever have and never ever will.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Rygu said:


> I can respect the hunter who goes and cleanly kills his food, no pain or suffering with respect for nature. What I cannot stand in any shape or form is factory farming, or hunting for sport. Both are cancers of this planet and a big reason why natural disasters don't bother me regardless of where they are. Humans **** this planet up, animals never ever have and never ever will.


Non-human organisms certainly do this to each other. For example blue-green algae (or cyanobacteria) is actually responsible for a massive change in our planet's atmosphere in earth life's early years. The subsequent production of so much oxygen caused earth's first major extinction event of organisms that were anaeorobic and intolerant to oxygen.

Plenty of species have been driven to extinction by other species as well through predation or resource competition (in fact most species that have ever lived were wiped out by other species long before **** sapiens came to be), that's kind of the whole thrust of how natural selection works.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

HexRei said:


> Non-human organisms certainly do this to each other. For example blue-green algae (or cyanobacteria) is actually responsible for a massive change in our planet's atmosphere in earth life's early years. The subsequent production of so much oxygen caused earth's first major extinction event of organisms that were anaeorobic and intolerant to oxygen.
> 
> Plenty of species have been driven to extinction by other species as well (in fact most species that have ever lived were wiped out by other species through predation or resource competition long before **** sapiens came to be), that's kind of the whole thrust of how natural selection works.


My point was animals don't cut down forests, pollute the air, pollute lakes and oceans, destroy the ozone, create nuclear disasters, and so on. We do all that.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Rygu said:


> My point was animals don't cut down forests, pollute the air, pollute lakes and oceans, destroy the ozone, create nuclear disasters, and so on. We do all that.


True, but most other animals are simply too unintelligent to do these things intentionally, they're not nicer (unless raised as pets, perhaps, but generally the wild animal kingdom is a land of thoughtless brutality). So are lots of humans, for that matter in fact. The average human is completely incapable of building a nuclear bomb or reactor. Some animals do cut down trees and "pollute" waters. Algeal blooms (to bring it back) in fact are even today responsible for creating gigantic unoxygenated "dead patches" in bodies of water where most life cannot exist.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

You guys need to get a grip of yourselves man. You're gonna blow your brains out if you're so dramatic about everything. You only get one run-through in life lads. You can spend that time worrying about the emotions of your chicken nuggets or crying because you see a factory blowing smoke into the air....or you can enjoy yourself and have a laugh and go out with a smile on your face.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> It sounds like you're living in a fcking dream world. Some fantasy land where murder, torture, ****, genocide and the worst crimes imaginable only exist in foreign countries far away from your precious illusory bubble of reality. Or in the movies, books or on television shows.


I'm with you man. I hate when people commit genocide against animals.

This one time, my neighbour had a beehive in his compost bin. He set it on fire, killing the Queen Bee. I don't understand how we live in the world where this sick bastard was fully allowed to commit *regicide* and get away with it.

The world is a sick and vile place. I'm assuming you've starred out the word r.ape based on your context which again I think is shocking. The fact that Wales is allowed to be a country despite all the unauthorised sexual abuse towards livestock. America should pull out of the Middle East and teach them sheep shaggers a thing or two about the real world.



ReptilianSlayer said:


> The world isn't some hippy, dippy fcking place where Nazi Germany and the holocaust happened on some far away land a millennia ago that has no chance of ever occurring again.


There was this forest not far from my house. The wood was going into the construction of a orphanage but that's not important. They cut it down. It crumbled to the floor. Birds squawked as they flew into the air. Squirrels were left without homes, some dead under the crushing weight of the trees as their squirrel family looked on. It happened almost a year ago today, September 11th, 2014, the day that the Deciduous Towers fell.

Although I heard that the squirrels got insurance on the forest just a month before. Chainsaws can't cut through oak trees either. The whole thing sounds a bit fishy to me.


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## Glothin (Jun 8, 2010)

Jeepers, this thread certainly surprised me. 

And I thought I was visiting a forum focused on UFC?


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Glothin said:


> Jeepers, this thread certainly surprised me.
> 
> And I thought I was visiting a forum focused on UFC?


You visited a thread about a fighter turning to veganism and didn't expect people to discuss veganism?


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

Vegetarian is an old word for Bad Hunter..


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Given us humans are omnivores I don't see any problems with eating meat, the only issue is the horror of the mass production. 

As for Mark Hunt going vegan, Mir said it best when he said he felt weak, and had issues with recovery, injuries healing and so on while on his Vegan diet. So he got back on the meat so he could get himself a nice big belly again

As for seeing Mark Hunt eat a smart veggie diet good luck with that. 'Gimme another fuquen cupcake beetch!'


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> You all just take the world waaaaaaay too seriously.


One word posts are frowned upon, so I'm typing all of this just to say *AGREED*.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> You guys need to get a grip of yourselves man. You're gonna blow your brains out if you're so dramatic about everything. You only get one run-through in life lads. You can spend that time worrying about the emotions of your chicken nuggets or crying because you see a factory blowing smoke into the air....or you can enjoy yourself and have a laugh and go out with a smile on your face.


See that's the thing, you don't believe your actions or inflicting misery on others has any effect on yourself, so there's this "you guys are so dumb for caring about others, animals, morals etc." ignorance about you.

But are you truly this blissfully happy ignorant care nothing guy you pretend to be? From the little I've gathered on here, you have at the very least a tough financial situation, a strained relationship with your dad, probably not peak health or whatever, not where you want to be in your education / career etc. This is not meant to be a personal attack on you, we all have problems more or less, but IMO this whole "I'm not serious about the world and look how blissfully happy I am with a smile on my face" thing is like a total farce. I know if I go now I'll go with a smile on my face, living a more "serious, boring" life thinking about others and with much more love and fulfilment in my life and actually the farthest thing from either humorless or boring, than when I wasn't, so spare me the pretence. 

I've been in your shoes where I didn't give a crap about anyone or anything but myself and my pleasure, and no my life wasn't bliss. It all came back to me, some in direct, obvious ways where the people I trod on got back on me, and some in indirect almost poetic ways of justice if you looked back long enough, my health wasn't as good as it is now etc. Call it you reap what you sow, karma, whatever, the principle is that living life being a selfish asshole isn't nearly as fulfilling as the people living these lives pretend to be. And yes I put animals in there in terms of being good to as well, and humans more so, as much as I can at least ... no one's perfect and I certainly am not, but my life feels better the more I move that way.

I know none of this is going to get through to you and you obviously don't believe in anything beyond your next unfunny joke, but maybe people reading the forum will get the concept.



HexRei said:


> why would you need milk? I'm not even close to vegan, but that's like the least necessary animal product out there, despite the giant ad campaign by the Dairy Farmers of America that is heavily subsized by our government. It's very easy to dietarily replace the nutrients in cow milk, and frankly unless a person leads a terrible diet in the firstplace probably doesn't even need to be changed at all.


Milk is the only "easy" nearly complete protein source if you don't eat meat. It's easy to replace the nutrients from milk in a meat diet but trickier in a meatless one ... primarily the protein. You can get more plant protein from lentils, legumes (peanuts, chickpeas, beans etc.), nuts but typically those tend to be loaded with more fats (good fats, but still) so it's tougher to balance the protein with calories. You can get lower amounts of protein from whole grains and some veggies like spinach etc. but typically these won't be enough for muscle building and maintenance on their own. 

Like I said, it's not impossible but takes a bit more knowledge of nutrition to maintain muscle on a full vegan diet, whereas there are many "vegetarian" cultures in history, in India and the buddhist enclaves in south-east asia for example, that had big athletic / wrestling / warrior traditions that demanded muscle mass but still didn't need any specialised diet planning beyond their normal plant diet and milk products.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

People tend to split into two groups: (A) One that tries to lean towards an ethical lifestyle and (B) one that doesn't really give a shit. Most of the meat-eaters that turn veggie tend to come from group (A). And out of the meat eaters, the group most likely to source their meat from organic sustainable ethical farms is also group (A). On the other hand, group (B) are the ones more likely to buy fast food and cheap meat from the supermarkets.

The trouble is, and im seeing this happen with people close to me, is that if all of group (A) turn veggie, it'll destroy the sustainable side of the meat industry. Group (B) dont give a shit and so will continue to support mass production meat farms.

So my view is this: If you like to eat meat and decide to go veggie because of the harsh treatment of animals, you may be doing more harm then good. The big farms that supply McDonalds with burgers will always be doing good business as group (B) dont give a shit. But if all of group (A) go veggie, the more ethically minded farms will go out of business. So all we'll have left are the horrible twats who slaughter miserable animals in their millions. I've pondered going veggie many times but the above always makes me stop and think. Do I really want my local small scale organic meat farmers to go out of business? Because thats who im hurting if I stop eating meat, not the big business fast food/cheap supermarket suppliers, who are the ones that need stopping.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Soojooko said:


> People tend to split into two groups: (A) One that tries to lean towards an ethical lifestyle and (B) one that doesn't really give a shit. Most of the meat-eaters that turn veggie tend to come from group (A). And out of the meat eaters, the group most likely to source their meat from organic sustainable ethical farms is also group (A). On the other hand, group (B) are the ones more likely to buy fast food and cheap meat from the supermarkets.
> 
> The trouble is, and im seeing this happen with people close to me, is that if all of group (A) turn veggie, it'll destroy the sustainable side of the meat industry. Group (B) dont give a shit and so will continue to support mass production meat farms.
> 
> So my view is this: If you like to eat meat and decide to go veggie because of the harsh treatment of animals, you may be doing more harm then good. The big farms that supply McDonalds with burgers will always be doing good business as group (B) dont give a shit. But if all of group (A) go veggie, the more ethically minded farms will go out of business. So all we'll have left are the horrible twats who slaughter miserable animals in their millions. I've pondered going veggie many times but the above always makes me stop and think. Do I really want my local small scale organic meat farmers to go out of business? Because thats who im hurting if I stop eating meat, not the big business fast food/cheap supermarket suppliers, who are the ones that need stopping.


Sorry this argument doesn't hold water, that's not how markets work ... organic / free range meat won't "disappear" just because a few people switch to vegetarianism, they will simply scale down to the point that they meet the ones that are still meat eating but prefer more ethical meat. 

They will only disappear when the demand is reeealllly small, like a handful in an area, at which point that small group can always source from elsewhere, rear their own, or make the leap to vegetarian or go to full corporate meat again. A few people jumping from free range to corporate there won't make that big a difference in either product category, but thousands choosing to eat meat because they think the free range industry will somehow die without them ... well that's still a large number.

In reality though there will probably always be a significant chunk of people in each category so all products will exist on the market, but the smaller each group is, the less products will be created for them. You should choose whatever ethical option you'll comfortable with, not worrying about the free market somehow not being free enough to support your choice.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> Sorry this argument doesn't hold water, that's not how markets work ... organic / free range meat won't "disappear" just because a few people switch to vegetarianism, they will simply scale down to the point that they meet the ones that are still meat eating but prefer more ethical meat.
> 
> They will only disappear when the demand is reeealllly small, like a handful in an area, at which point that small group can always source from elsewhere, rear their own, or make the leap to vegetarian or go to full corporate meat again. A few people jumping from free range to corporate there won't make that big a difference in either product category, but thousands choosing to eat meat because they think the free range industry will somehow die without them ... well that's still a large number.
> 
> In reality though there will probably always be a significant chunk of people in each category so all products will exist on the market, but the smaller each group is, the less products will be created for them. You should choose whatever ethical option you'll comfortable with, not worrying about the free market somehow not being free enough to support your choice.


What im basically saying is, a person who usually buys ethically sourced meat, choosing to become veggie because of animal cruelty is not going to do anything to the industry that treats animals very poorly. This is what im seeing now. I have at least 5 families close to me that switched to veggie diets, not because of health, but because of ethics. All of these families used to buy meat from small scale ethically minded farms. I really dont understand the point of it. It does nothing to the factory farmers who are the ones that run unethically. And it hurts the small local farms. Arse backwards logic. Typical of the english middle classes.

Stopping meat for health reasons is a whole other thing that im totally in agreement with, to be clear.


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## arkanoydz (Mar 15, 2010)

I've always been a fan of American BBQ's, Brazilian churrascos, Korean bulgogi&galbi, Japanese katsu-don, etc... and growing up in Italy we always had cold cuts and cheese platters to go along with wine.

When my father was diagnosed with cancer and was told by his doctor that "no, diet has nothing to do with cancer - you can eat whatever you want" I was no medical expert but so many wiser & smarter than me have indicated that food can & should become medicine.

So I started to search for second, third, and fourth opinions, and realised [like many others] that in so many instances, the food & medical industry are just an extension of big pharma [which, I was very surprised to find out, is significantly larger than the petroleum industry...].

From an anti-vegetarian, "hate them crusty hippie hipocrite c*nts" worldview, thanks to much research, I endorsed both vegan and vegetarian diets. It is not only more ethical, but on the long-run more healthy to avoid mass-produced, don't-give-a-f*ck-as-long-as-we're-profiting foods. I don't want to have anything to do with the meat of an animal who has not lived a second of its life as the creature that nature intended it to be. 

The meat & dairy I occasionally consume now is supposedly organic, free-range, biodynamic, ec etc etc. Of course I have no way to verify; the organic industry grows exponentially along with the demand so the standards are bound to decline as with all things, and of course there is probably corruption even in fair trade markets. I don't live a life that enables me to hunt my own game so that's the best I can do for now :thumb02:

It's a case of realising we don't have the right to treat other creatures [or nature in general] as subsidiary to us [and as other posters have mentioned, the torture & unacceptable living conditions we force them into], with the belief that we are what we eat. 

Even the most cynical of us cannot ignore the absurdity: nowadays, we're notified when produce is organically grown/bred [ie the way it should have stayed all along] - whereas it should be the exact opposite: we should be warned every time something is grown/bred as it is nowadays [profit-driven mass products].


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Liddellianenko said:


> See that's the thing, you don't believe your actions or inflicting misery on others has any effect on yourself, so there's this "you guys are so dumb for caring about others, animals, morals etc." ignorance about you.
> 
> But are you truly this blissfully happy ignorant care nothing guy you pretend to be? From the little I've gathered on here, you have at the very least a tough financial situation, a strained relationship with your dad, probably not peak health or whatever, not where you want to be in your education / career etc. This is not meant to be a personal attack on you, we all have problems more or less, but IMO this whole "I'm not serious about the world and look how blissfully happy I am with a smile on my face" thing is like a total farce. I know if I go now I'll go with a smile on my face, living a more "serious, boring" life thinking about others and with much more love and fulfilment in my life and actually the farthest thing from either humorless or boring, than when I wasn't, so spare me the pretence.
> 
> ...


For the first paragraph, I understand actions have consequences. But when I wear my Air Force Ones, I don't see flash backs of kids in sweatshops. I can eat a cheeseburger without seeing a cow being brutally slaughtered. I can celebrate Christmas without thinking of all the Christians who murdered people for their religion.

The start of the next paragraph, you picked up a few things wrong. My financial situation isn't "tough". Sure, I struggle to go to college or to buy a PS4 but I have a roof over my head, have never went without any basic requirements and have a tonne of luxuries. I don't have any idea where you got the dad thing from, maybe I said it about my brother as he has a hard relationship with my dad, but I have absolutely no strained family relationships. I'm not where I want to be in my career but I'm also 23. The majority of the planet at my age work in shops and only snap into wanting to do something bigger when they have a few more years on them. As for my own health, sure most of this site are probably in better shape than me but aren't you guys in better shape than most of the world? Stick me in sparring with the next guy walking down the street and I'll outlast him. I'm in better shape than most, and bare in mind I'm Scottish too .

You're also saying "don't give a crap about anyone". Togo the Indian sweatshop worker? Nah couldn't give a shit. Daisy the cow who's gonna be killed for meat? Nope, who cares? "Anyone" implies that I don't give a shit if someone happens to the people around me. I'd even give a shit about strangers around me. There are just more problems in the world than things that happen at the other side of the planet, or being picky about where your food comes from. Vegetarianism is a luxury.

The way you ended that is 100% fine. If someone wants to stop eating a certain way and it starts to make them feel better, absolutely, go ahead. But you guys are such pretentious arseholes that you reckon we should all do the same? Do you guys think you're the second coming of Jesus or something? That you have to "spread the word"?. You have made a decision about yourself and your life. Us who aren't vegetarians don't really care about what decisions you make unless you come to a BBQ and are all annoying about it. But don't try and convert us to your decisions and claim that we "don't give a shit about anyone" just because we like a few sausages.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

arkanoydz said:


> I've always been a fan of American BBQ's, Brazilian churrascos, Korean bulgogi&galbi, Japanese katsu-don, etc... and growing up in Italy we always had cold cuts and cheese platters to go along with wine.
> 
> When my father was diagnosed with cancer and was told by his doctor that "no, diet has nothing to do with cancer - you can eat whatever you want" I was no medical expert but so many wiser & smarter than me have indicated that food can & should become medicine.
> 
> ...


good post all the way through but the red part is an important truth.

*There is no health care in America. There is disease management*. There is a huge medical industry whose purpose is to sell you the right combination of drugs to keep you tolerating the poison you are being sold as food. Everyone thinks they know that processed foods are bad for us but everyone ignores the fact that flour is the original and worst processed food. grain was never meant for human consumption. It's proper use is to feed the animals we eat. There's no defense for the meat "industry" but I will always eat meat because it's one of the healthy foods i was designed to eat.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> For the first paragraph, I understand actions have consequences. But when I wear my Air Force Ones, I don't see flash backs of kids in sweatshops. I can eat a cheeseburger without seeing a cow being brutally slaughtered. I can celebrate Christmas without thinking of all the Christians who murdered people for their religion.
> 
> The start of the next paragraph, you picked up a few things wrong. My financial situation isn't "tough". Sure, I struggle to go to college or to buy a PS4 but I have a roof over my head, have never went without any basic requirements and have a tonne of luxuries. I don't have any idea where you got the dad thing from, maybe I said it about my brother as he has a hard relationship with my dad, but I have absolutely no strained family relationships. I'm not where I want to be in my career but I'm also 23. The majority of the planet at my age work in shops and only snap into wanting to do something bigger when they have a few more years on them. As for my own health, sure most of this site are probably in better shape than me but aren't you guys in better shape than most of the world? Stick me in sparring with the next guy walking down the street and I'll outlast him. I'm in better shape than most, and bare in mind I'm Scottish too .
> 
> ...


In the old days you would have treated the African-American's as slaves, told that black person sat on your seat to get off and stand up so you can sit down. It doesn't affect you or your immediate family, they're just slaves because the law says so and that's how society is.

Earlier than that, you would have raped women without a problem. Oppressed them, beaten them, treated them as inferiors, because that's what they were back then, just the same way you view the animals now. Do what ever you want to them, it doesn't affect your life or your immediate family, so who cares. Society says it's ok, so let's just carry on living my immoral life with no regards for the feelings of others.

Even earlier than that, you would be burning people at the stake for suggesting the world was round with a smile on your face.

You're all of these people Clyde, at different stages throughout history, just following the same software programmed perception of the majority of society. But then, the few who are brave enough to speak out - malcolm x, MLK, Gandhi, founding fathers of America etc slowly educate the ignorant masses like yourself that your behavior is not acceptable and things must change. At first they are hated, vilified, called "pretentious" and much worse things, then eventually, people like you see sense.

That's how all injustice in all of it's forms ends Clyde. By "pretentious" individuals standing up to it and educating the rest of people on why their actions are wrong and why it must change, then slowly, gradually, people like you are forced to change your ways because it's no longer deemed socially acceptable carry on with the injustices of slavery, women oppression, animal slavery etc.

You are completely disconnected from the human race and the rest of the world. "I don't give a shit about people on the other side of the world". There is no other side of the world, they're just people - just like you, who want to live a dignified life in peace. You are disconnected from this truth and see yourself as separate from all other living things, when we are, in fact, all connected, regardless of geographical location. Look at the internet and this forum, you can communicate and interact with members on this forum that live on the other side of the world.

You live your entire life as a lie.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Mark Hunt, inspiring deep thoughts around the world.raise01:


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> For the first paragraph, I understand actions have consequences. But when I wear my Air Force Ones, I don't see flash backs of kids in sweatshops. I can eat a cheeseburger without seeing a cow being brutally slaughtered. I can celebrate Christmas without thinking of all the Christians who murdered people for their religion.
> 
> The start of the next paragraph, you picked up a few things wrong. My financial situation isn't "tough". Sure, I struggle to go to college or to buy a PS4 but I have a roof over my head, have never went without any basic requirements and have a tonne of luxuries. I don't have any idea where you got the dad thing from, maybe I said it about my brother as he has a hard relationship with my dad, but I have absolutely no strained family relationships. I'm not where I want to be in my career but I'm also 23. The majority of the planet at my age work in shops and only snap into wanting to do something bigger when they have a few more years on them. As for my own health, sure most of this site are probably in better shape than me but aren't you guys in better shape than most of the world? Stick me in sparring with the next guy walking down the street and I'll outlast him. I'm in better shape than most, and bare in mind I'm Scottish too .
> 
> ...



That's great to see how you are so proud of being blind to the actions behind what you consume. Surely you should love to eat human meat if it tasted good, without seeing the guy who died for it? Jack off to kiddie porn without thinking of the kid raped and tortured for it? Buy slave goods? Or is it only because some of those things are illegal NOW that it holds back your hand, nothing wrong with them in principle right, as long as they're on the other side of the world? After all who cares right, it's not YOUR problem, how is YOUR action, consumption and financing part of the problem? 

You're right, none of these are your problem. Not until your gut gets filled with cancer for consuming the shit chemicals pumped into those cheap tortured corporate meats for profit, or those slave produced synthetic clothes fill your skin with hives etc. It's not like the world is littered with accredited research papers linking two and two together, but my "doctor" says my actions don't affect my health, only dumb luck, and I'd be damned if him or a lot of his body of knowledge are based on profit.

Because of course those greedy corporations that you patronise, they are only going to hurt OTHERS for profit. Poor Togo in India, or Bessy the cow, THEY are fair game, but not ME. The greedy corporation LOVES me. I'm white! In a "developed" country! Immune and invincible I am! They'd never do anything to hurt ME regardless of how much money it makes them. Right? That's what the government tells me, surely they can't be paid too! 

Tell you what, you are free to do exactly what you please. No one is going to come to your barbecue to "convert" you. Heaven forbid you go out of your way to come in laugh at those people discussing their views in their thread topics, no sir, they'll butt right out of your business and rightfully so, those holier than thou second comings of Jesus.

I do hope you stay healthy too in spite of all the crap you love, but if you do have to go through chemo or diverticultis or something, do take it with a great big smile on your face as you said, laughing away at your carefree world.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

ReptilianSlayer and Liddel have now accused me of...


R.ape
Slave trading
Murder
Paedophilia
Cannibalism
Racism

And then are completely confused at why someone might think they take their vegetarianism a bit too seriously. :laugh:


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Good for him I'm in the process of going vegetarian. Fell off the wagon a few times but I'll be there eventually. Went to a wedding recently and the vegan option was disgusting so I ate some chicken


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

rabakill said:


> Good for him I'm in the process of going vegetarian. Fell off the wagon a few times but I'll be there eventually. Went to a wedding recently and the vegan option was disgusting so *I ate some chicken*


WHAT?!?!?! That pretty much means you caused 9/11!!!!!!


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

rabakill said:


> Good for him I'm in the process of going vegetarian. Fell off the wagon a few times but I'll be there eventually. Went to a wedding recently and the vegan option was disgusting so I ate some chicken


Good for you. What's important is making a conscious effort to change something, you're bound to slip up a few times on the way.

I know you're keen on Mark Passio - he has a few podcasts, videos on vegetarianism you should check out.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> ReptilianSlayer and Liddel have now accused me of...
> 
> 
> R.ape
> ...


You've not been accused of murder, you DO actually fund it. You eating meat meat means innocent animals are murdered. That's not an accusation, it's a fact.

If you pay your taxes, also, your tax payers money is spent on immoral wars in other countries where children are murdered. You're part of that too.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Rygu said:


> Props to Mark hunt, but the real issue is global overpopulation. Sustainability simply isn't possible at the current path mankind is on. The evidence is there in full force, anyone who disagrees simply doesn't want to believe it. Eventually the planet will cleanse itself as it has before throughout history but probably after I'm dead.


At the moment the problem is rather distribution of food. There is enough food to easily supply the whole world population, but it's distributed inequally and in Western/industrialised nations actually more food is thrown away than would be needed to support the whole world.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> You've not been accused of murder, you DO actually fund it. You eating meat meat means innocent animals are murdered. That's not an accusation, it's a fact.
> 
> If you pay your taxes, also, your tax payers money is spent on immoral wars in other countries where children are murdered. You're part of that too.


If I had a choice between being one of those kids who gets killed in an immoral war, or going out to the pub with you, I'd say I'd get off easy taking a bullet.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> I'll take it, if he sticks to it. Easy fake money .
> 
> I don't know a single person that GAINED weight going off meat ... usually they lose it.
> 
> The danger of course is him losing muscle and being low on protein for such a big guy, especially going full vegan without milk etc. but there are ways to get plenty if you know what you're doing.


My brothers girlfriend is a yoga instructor. She was vegan. She was also the "chunkiest" yoga instructor I had ever met. She switched back to eating meat and now says she is satisfied with far less food. She is now very thin.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Ape City said:


> My brothers girlfriend is a yoga instructor. She was vegan. She was also the "chunkiest" yoga instructor I had ever met. She switched back to eating meat and now says she is satisfied with far less food. She is now very thin.


I think the problem is that it's easier to get good quality lean meat than it is to get good quality "lean" nuts.

For guys like Rep, how are supps for things like veganism?


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

The one thing I will never understand is the notion that animals don't understand the world around them. That they are just mechanical beings functioning without emotion.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> If I had a choice between being one of those kids who gets killed in an immoral war, or going out to the pub with you, I'd say I'd get off easy taking a bullet.


I don't initiate discussions about diets in pubs/social gatherings unless asked. Usually when asked and I give a short, simple answer, the meat eaters follow up with more questions. It can never be simply left at that, they seem annoyed that someone else has a drastically different diet to them and continue to prod - not all, but some.

Now, I can almost guarentee that YOU'RE the that type of person. You'd ask, "why don't you eat meat", I'd give a short answer and you'd follow with some cringe worthy joke and some more patronizing questions.

That said, I'd much rather take a bullet than listen to your absolutely awful jokes all fcking night.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

They probably are annoyed that you infer meat eaters are murderers and directly responsible for the genocide of millions of innocent animals. People who are ignorant don't like to be accused of awful things like that.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Ape City said:


> They probably are annoyed that you infer meat eaters are murderers and directly responsible for the genocide of millions of innocent animals. People who are ignorant don't like to be accused of awful things like that.


The discussion doesn't get like that until they continue to prod.

It usually goes along the lines of, "so, why don't you eat meat".

Answer usually "I just don't agree with the way the animals are treated."

Short simple enough answer, usually followed by

"Oh, so you're a lentil eater, can't be getting much protein without eating some good meat!"

then the conversation intensifies and that's when shit like you posted above starts getting brought to the table.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> The discussion doesn't get like that until they continue to prod.
> 
> It usually goes along the lines of, "so, why don't you eat meat".
> 
> ...


I totally understand why it gets to that point. You feel insulted when they mock your diet and the fact that you care about other living beings, and they don't like to be called cruel and murderous. 

I think that if you went about it a different way you could actually open minds rather than close them by creating confrontation. But it requires you to be the bigger man. That shouldn't be hard considering you are doing the same thing by not eating meat for moral reasons.

What I am inferring is that most moral eaters tend to try to change minds with shock value and guilt trips. I forget his name but the video you posted in the eating meat is immoral thread was a perfect example. The speaker had a lot of great facts and information to share, but there was an undertone of accusation and disgust towards meat eaters. 

I think the morality approach is a tricky sell. People who have been eating meat for a long time will not easily admit they have contributed to cruelty and will also reject factual information presented because they are insulted, hurt, or just on the defense. 

I think it would be better to approach the issue from a different angle. Perhaps pointing out how unhealthy factory farmed meat is for people. The chemicals and steroids used to produce chickens who cannot walk because their breasts are so huge. 

Not saying I have the answers, but I know how easily it is to shut down someones ability to be open minded if they feel insulted or accused.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Ape City said:


> I totally understand why it gets to that point. You feel insulted when they mock your diet and the fact that you care about other living beings, and they don't like to be called cruel and murderous.
> 
> I think that if you went about it a different way you could actually open minds rather than close them by creating confrontation. But it requires you to be the bigger man. That shouldn't be hard considering you are doing the same thing by not eating meat for moral reasons.
> 
> ...


This is a very good, well thought out post, I agree completely. Insulting or accusing someone is more likely to make them dig in their heels than introspect, diplomatic questions and informative tidbits are usually better.

Of course with someone like Clyde who glories in their ignorance and incites insults to trivialise discussion, no approach or facts matter. But in general I agree.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Ape City said:


> I totally understand why it gets to that point. You feel insulted when they mock your diet and the fact that you care about other living beings, and they don't like to be called cruel and murderous.
> 
> I think that if you went about it a different way you could actually open minds rather than close them by creating confrontation. But it requires you to be the bigger man. That shouldn't be hard considering you are doing the same thing by not eating meat for moral reasons.
> 
> ...


Yep, I pretty much agree. Mostly nowadays, after they make their little joke I just laughed it off and change the topic of conversation.

That said, for me personally - I'm absolutely fine with being called out on things. I'm simple, I just like to know the truth. I don't care how shocking, uncomfortable or how much that truth may potentially hurt my ego, but I need to know it.

But I understand most people don't respond well to that kind of thing. Most, if not all people want to know the truth, but if that truth reveals that their actions in the world are causing problems, the ego gets very defensive and rejects the information because of how it makes them feel.

It's kinda like telling the alcoholic in denial "what you're doing is destroying your life and those around you". The ego doesn't like it, rejects the information and they deny that there's a problem.

I like direct, straight talkers myself, but I understand most human beings don't like that style at all, really. They want to feel good inside about things, not offended.


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## JASONJRF (Nov 3, 2009)

SM33 said:


> Him going vegan won't change a thing, it'll make him feel better because he's not buying from that market, but it won't change the techniques used to feed an over-populated planet.
> 
> As a long time athlete, this could be a huge task for him, if he's regularly eaten meat until now.
> 
> I use the term 'meat' loosely, very few people can claim to eat properly farmed and produced meat.


The factory farming isn't because of an over populated planet dude. The factory farming is because people demand lower cost food. If you had to pay 12 or 20.00 dollars for a pound of beef instead of 5.00 people would freak out. That is why yes we are overpopulated yes the overpopulation led to factory farming but not because we needed it to get enough food. It was we needed it to keep prices low.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

JASONJRF said:


> The factory farming isn't because of an over populated planet dude. The factory farming is because people demand lower cost food. If you had to pay 12 or 20.00 dollars for a pound of beef instead of 5.00 people would freak out. That is why yes we are overpopulated yes the overpopulation led to factory farming but not because we needed it to get enough food. It was we needed it to keep prices low.


Exactly, meat production is actually 10-100 times more resource intensive than producing plant food, in every single resource metric - energy (feed, refrigeration, storage), land and water. In short you could feed 100 times as many people if you just used those resources for farming. "Feeding the planet" is not what it's about, it's about profit. Not to mention:



Voiceless said:


> At the moment the problem is rather distribution of food. There is enough food to easily supply the whole world population, but it's distributed inequally and in Western/industrialised nations actually more food is thrown away than would be needed to support the whole world.


This, and it's not even that the west is this great prosperous storehouse of food and the developed world are starving slacking fools that don't know how to grow their food, the distribution problems are within every country itself. It all comes back to government, as usual.

There are literally thousands of tonnes of food ROTTING away every year in government granaries and storehouses every year in countries like India and sub-saharan Africa, procured at artificially high "controlled" prices, but they don't release them for free to feed the poor (whose land and self-sustaining lifestyles incidentally may have been taken over by the same govts.) because it would lower food prices, or mobilise resources to distribute for free, as there's no profit. Europe and America also have even larger amounts of food waste, not just the stereotypical consumer waste throwing away food at the buffet but similar losses of rotting wasted food and ass-backwards distribution models. It's just not highlighted as much in the developed world because there's less hunger overall.

Most waste happens not at the table, but just rotting away in fields, storage and transport because they'd rather let production go to waste with distant pockets of food production and consumption rather than the natural order of every area and community producing what it needs.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/07/02/india-wheat-food-malnutrition-crops-idINDEE86101620120702

http://www.fao.org/docrep/014/mb060e/mb060e02.pdf

The whole "too many people to feed" thing is a misanthropic myth ... numbers are not the problem, stupidity and greed are.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> What I am inferring is that most moral eaters tend to try to change minds with shock value and guilt trips.


Disagree wholeheartedly. In my life I've never once seen a vegan pull out the guilt trip, the cultural meme of vegans being snobby pretentious guilt trippers identifies a insignificant minority.

No, in my experience the opposite is true. To even mention that you are a vegan, even when asked, creates disgust and condescending responses. Sure there are some that go for shock factor and they get remembered and the vocal minority is an easy scapegoat. The snide and downright assholish things I've heard meat eaters say are way worse, I sat with a table of moral vegans 2 days ago and all they said was "I'm a moral vegan", that's it, while I ate chicken fingers right in front of them. That's the norm in my experience.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)




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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

To be honest lads, I couldn't give a shite what you eat. It's not the end of the world if people like a few steaks every now and again. Be accepting of other people's cultures. You're a vegan? Alright. Just don't invite me round for dinner and we're good.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> To be honest lads, I couldn't give a shite what you eat. It's not the end of the world if people like a few steaks every now and again. Be accepting of other people's cultures. You're a vegan? Alright. Just don't invite me round for dinner and we're good.


No one invited you to dinner and of course we are accepting, you came in here with your stale jokes and ridicule remember? All RS did was agree with a tweet by Hunt.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I think you'll find that I made a joke, and then said you guys take everything too seriously (which you absolutely knocked out the park with your accusations of me being a paedophile slave trading r.apist).

If anything you're the one who jumped in to action going after MC for a comment he had.

Can't even make a joke around here. Where's Spite at so I can tell um I shagged his mum and not get a 50 page essay in response about how I'm immoral.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

I truly worry for the morals of anyone who can watch that video and it not have some effect on them... to just say "I don't give a shit" shows a truly worrying lack of empathy.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Joabbuac said:


> I truly worry for the morals of anyone who can watch that video and it not have some effect on them... to just say "I don't give a shit" shows a truly worrying lack of empathy.


Now this has me curious. I wonder if Clyde watched the video posted in the OP and then came to the thread and immediately made the joke after. If that's the case, he's even more of a worry than I originally thought.

I've no idea how any sane human can watch that video, come away with a smile and make some daft joke about it on a forum. It's incomprehensible.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Because some people feed on the reactions of others and enjoy being able to piss off others. They do it because they know it bothers people, not saying that's what happened for sure but it's probable.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> Now this has me curious. I wonder if Clyde watched the video posted in the OP and then came to the thread and immediately made the joke after. If that's the case, he's even more of a worry than I originally thought.
> 
> I've no idea how any *sane* human can watch that video, come away with a smile and make some daft joke about it on a forum. It's incomprehensible.


Key word in bold right there. But there are also videos depicting the unimaginable misery some poor children are forced to live through and yet, so many supported Sonnen with his tasteless "children playing in the mud" lines like, "oh, he was just hyping a fight, he is a cool guy".


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

You all know you're COMPLETE hypocrites right? Reptilian, throw me out a rough number of how many trips you've taken to Africa to build schools and hospitals for the children you see suffering through horrifying conditions. You write for MMA, how many times have you written articles about the pain and hardships that donkeys have to face in these countries?

No I didn't watch the video. Why would I? I also don't watch ISIS beheading videos or frequent Rotten.com (is that still a thing?). You guys say that you should have to watch videos like this before having something meat based to eat. Do you treat any potential lady friends to a quick slideshow of herpes and gonorrhoea before taking her to the bedroom?

Rep, I love that you've compared me to the Nazis several times. Now let's forget that your posterboy insult for me wasn't a vegetarian, you are completely dumbfounded that people don't believe the same things as you, or have the same emotional connection with things you feel emotional about. You think that your opinions are fact, and that if someone disagrees with them they are whole heartedly wrong. You are unwilling to accept new information, like for example if I posted you a tonne of 9/11 non-inside job videos and papers, a tonne of anti anti-vax videos and papers or a tonne of pro-meat eaters videos and papers, you'd respond to me with something like "All of them are paid to say that stuff because it fuels the government agenda". You would completely dismiss EVERYTHING I could give you because you have preconceived notions about what you want to be true. The only research you do on topics are for confirmation bias and you won't be open to anything that contradicts or may slight what you want to be the truth. That's a hell of a lot more like the Nazis than not caring where my chicken nuggets came from.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> http://www.bjpenn.com/ufc-heavyweight-going-vegan-this-is-why-graphic/
> 
> Just when I thought Mark Hunt couldn't get any more awesome.


I think it'll be the beginning of the end for him. Everything I've taking in from both conventional doctors and more holistic practitioners is that vegan diets are extremely dangerous. In fact one practitioner I used to see told me his brief flirtation with veganism almost destroyed his health. 

I really believe humans were designed to be omnivores. Whole foods. Moderation with meat, but not total abstinence.


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## GlassJaw (Sep 21, 2012)

Calminian said:


> I think it'll be the beginning of the end for him. Everything I've taking in from both conventional doctors and more holistic practitioners is that vegan diets are extremely dangerous. In fact one practitioner I used to see told me his brief flirtation with veganism almost destroyed his health.
> 
> I really believe humans were designed to be omnivores. Whole foods. Moderation with meat, but not total abstinence.


 I have a few friends that are vegan and they are very healthy. It is important to note that they do have to supplement some things they aren't getting with vitamins but that really isn't a big deal. It will be interesting to see if Hunt actually follows through with this. Personally, I couldn't watch very far past the first minute of the video. I'm not vegan or vegetarian but I do make a big effort to eat local from farmers that have more conventional techniques.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> You all know you're COMPLETE hypocrites right? Reptilian, throw me out a rough number of how many trips you've taken to Africa to build schools and hospitals for the children you see suffering through horrifying conditions. You write for MMA, how many times have you written articles about the pain and hardships that donkeys have to face in these countries?
> 
> No I didn't watch the video. Why would I? I also don't watch ISIS beheading videos or frequent Rotten.com (is that still a thing?). You guys say that you should have to watch videos like this before having something meat based to eat. Do you treat any potential lady friends to a quick slideshow of herpes and gonorrhoea before taking her to the bedroom?
> 
> Rep, I love that you've compared me to the Nazis several times. Now let's forget that your posterboy insult for me wasn't a vegetarian, you are completely dumbfounded that people don't believe the same things as you, or have the same emotional connection with things you feel emotional about. You think that your opinions are fact, and that if someone disagrees with them they are whole heartedly wrong. You are unwilling to accept new information, like for example if I posted you a tonne of 9/11 non-inside job videos and papers, a tonne of anti anti-vax videos and papers or a tonne of pro-meat eaters videos and papers, you'd respond to me with something like "All of them are paid to say that stuff because it fuels the government agenda". You would completely dismiss EVERYTHING I could give you because you have preconceived notions about what you want to be true. The only research you do on topics are for confirmation bias and you won't be open to anything that contradicts or may slight what you want to be the truth. That's a hell of a lot more like the Nazis than not caring where my chicken nuggets came from.


Wait wait wait wait..... did you seriously accuse people of not taking new information while admitting to refusing to watch a video, then you throw in some 9/11 and nazi speak for good measure.

You are a piece of work, just true idiocy personified. And this doesn't even relate to the issue of whether meat is good to eat or not. What you wrote, it's a giant pile of bullshit logically. You contradicted yourself and called yourself a hypocrit simultaneously....


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> You all know you're COMPLETE hypocrites right? Reptilian, throw me out a rough number of how many trips you've taken to Africa to build schools and hospitals for the children you see suffering through horrifying conditions. You write for MMA, how many times have you written articles about the pain and hardships that donkeys have to face in these countries?
> 
> No I didn't watch the video. Why would I? I also don't watch ISIS beheading videos or frequent Rotten.com (is that still a thing?). You guys say that you should have to watch videos like this before having something meat based to eat. Do you treat any potential lady friends to a quick slideshow of herpes and gonorrhoea before taking her to the bedroom?
> 
> Rep, I love that you've compared me to the Nazis several times. Now let's forget that your posterboy insult for me wasn't a vegetarian, you are completely dumbfounded that people don't believe the same things as you, or have the same emotional connection with things you feel emotional about. You think that your opinions are fact, and that if someone disagrees with them they are whole heartedly wrong. You are unwilling to accept new information, like for example if I posted you a tonne of 9/11 non-inside job videos and papers, a tonne of anti anti-vax videos and papers or a tonne of pro-meat eaters videos and papers, you'd respond to me with something like "All of them are paid to say that stuff because it fuels the government agenda". You would completely dismiss EVERYTHING I could give you because you have preconceived notions about what you want to be true. The only research you do on topics are for confirmation bias and you won't be open to anything that contradicts or may slight what you want to be the truth. That's a hell of a lot more like the Nazis than not caring where my chicken nuggets came from.


You are quite literally the dumbest poster on this board. Your level of ignorance and hypocrisy knows no bounds it seems.

It isn't my 'opinion' that causing other innocent living beings harm is wrong, that's a fact - an objective truth. The world isn't all just opinions and subjectivity, there are objective truths to be discovered. What your arrogant, ignorant ass is saying is that basically everything is just an opinion and there is no such thing as actual truth.

The young girl who's just been raped by a pedophile. Walk up to that girl and say "sorry, but the man that raped you just had a differing opinion to you and everyone else. It's just his opinion that raping children is ok, and there's no way to actually prove him wrong."

It's the equivalent to watching a pig being brutally slaughtered, screaming in agony and then claiming "well, that's just your opinion that's wrong - I'll still enjoy my bacon later on". No. Wrong is wrong. Causing suffering to others is WRONG - that's not up for debate and that isn't my "opinion".



Calminian said:


> I think it'll be the beginning of the end for him. Everything I've taking in from both conventional doctors and more holistic practitioners is that vegan diets are extremely dangerous. In fact one practitioner I used to see told me his brief flirtation with veganism almost destroyed his health.
> 
> I really believe humans were designed to be omnivores. Whole foods. Moderation with meat, but not total abstinence.


You are heavily misinformed.

I can't be bothered reciting all of the first hand accounts of people completely turning their health around with a veggie/vegan diet. 










But there's one of them. Looks fine and in damn good shape to me. In much better shape than she was when she was eating meat and dairy, by her own accounts. Then there's Mike Tyson. High blood pressure and a host of other problems, eliminated by changing his diet to plant-based.

There's also Bill Clinton, who effectively managed to reverse heart disease since adopting a vegan diet.

Just remember that "conventional medicine" has been around for only 100 years, nature has been around for eternity.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> You all know you're COMPLETE hypocrites right? Reptilian, throw me out a rough number of how many trips you've taken to Africa to build schools and hospitals for the children you see suffering through horrifying conditions. You write for MMA, how many times have you written articles about the pain and hardships that donkeys have to face in these countries?
> 
> No I didn't watch the video. Why would I? I also don't watch ISIS beheading videos or frequent Rotten.com (is that still a thing?). You guys say that you should have to watch videos like this before having something meat based to eat. Do you treat any potential lady friends to a quick slideshow of herpes and gonorrhoea before taking her to the bedroom?
> 
> Rep, I love that you've compared me to the Nazis several times. Now let's forget that your posterboy insult for me wasn't a vegetarian, you are completely dumbfounded that people don't believe the same things as you, or have the same emotional connection with things you feel emotional about. You think that your opinions are fact, and that if someone disagrees with them they are whole heartedly wrong. You are unwilling to accept new information, like for example if I posted you a tonne of 9/11 non-inside job videos and papers, a tonne of anti anti-vax videos and papers or a tonne of pro-meat eaters videos and papers, you'd respond to me with something like "All of them are paid to say that stuff because it fuels the government agenda". You would completely dismiss EVERYTHING I could give you because you have preconceived notions about what you want to be true. The only research you do on topics are for confirmation bias and you won't be open to anything that contradicts or may slight what you want to be the truth. That's a hell of a lot more like the Nazis than not caring where my chicken nuggets came from.


As stupid an analogy as I expected.

Even if RS is doing nothing to improve the conditions of poor people in Africa or prevent ISIS beheadings etc. he is doing nothing to CAUSE their poverty or suffering directly. He isn't paying ISIS to chop those heads or African dictators to trample their people or the people on rotten .com to have those accidents or whatever.

You are DIRECTLY causing the suffering. You are paying for them to have a rod stuck up their ass to electrocute them, then eating them. What part of that don't you get? 

Instead you'll come up with stupid analogies about unrelated suffering that we are not contributing to, to justify your own actions and ignorance.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

What are you guys thoughts on a scenario whereby all the processing plants are phased out, and all meat became free range and organic - the question being with the huge population, would America be able to feed everyone or would there be too much land and new labour needed? (Transferring a guy from packing pig testicles to working on a farm would be tricky.)

Sure there are famous butter mountains etc, but in a scenario where there are no huge plants processing vast amounts of animals would there actually be enough meat to feed the population?

And I'm talking a scenario where we have same number of meat eaters as there are currently.

I'm not sure it could actually happen. The amount of jobs lost where people would have to retrain or have nothing else. It would be similar to stopping coals mines in the UK. Would be massive civil unrest from processing plant workers, unions etc. 

There would actually need to be an agricultural revolution. 
Can't imagine too many politicians having the balls to start that!


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

DonRifle said:


> What are you guys thoughts on a scenario whereby all the processing plants are phased out, and all meat became free range and organic - the question being with the huge population, would America be able to feed everyone or would there be too much land and new labour needed? (Transferring a guy from packing pig testicles to working on a farm would be tricky.)
> 
> Sure there are famous butter mountains etc, but in a scenario where there are no huge plants processing vast amounts of animals would there actually be enough meat to feed the population?
> 
> ...


In your scenario, people would have to eat less meat and more plant food, like you know, all of history. Like is more healthy anyway. Fewer people would die of cancer and diverticultis. Rainbows would sprout in the sky. 

Seriously, It wouldn't be a problem AT ALL, because as I mentioned plant food is like 100 times less resource intensive, land, water, power included. 

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/environment.html (article with decent sources)

You're overthinking the revolution scenario, a shutting down of corporate farms will only cause some price rise in meat with tons more actual food available as a replacement with the same resources. People would go back to eating less meat as they did forever, as much as is affordable, which incidentally also happens to be more healthy. Even their wallets won't be hit, because of course the corresponding rise in the supply of veggies, grains, fruits etc. (produced from those freed up resources) would cause veg prices to drop ... they'd probably SAVE on their grocery bill and eat healthier for cheaper. Again, simple market economics.

Even the biggest proponents of a meat diet don't believe such massive quantities of corporate meat topped with a sad lonely lettuce leaf can possibly be healthy. Even doctors who are otherwise brainwashed by big pharma will admit as much, meat needs to be a smaller portion of the diet at the very least, balanced with veggies, fruits etc., not this abberation that we have now of a plates full of lardy meat and a thyme garnish that you throw away.

The only reason people are stuffing their gut with poisonous torture meat is because the market is flooded with this stuff at throwaway prices, cheaper than all of history, by using steroids and torture to turn animals into mutated balls of cancerous meat. In your hypothetical scenario people would just move to a more balanced meal, even if they continued to eat freerange / organic meat.

It's not about politicians having balls, it's about them filing their fat wallets. No they wouldn't shut these things down, they are financed by these corporations, among others. Don't look to government for solutions if you don't agree with something, look to your own choices.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

rabakill said:


> Wait wait wait wait..... did you seriously accuse people of not taking new information while admitting to refusing to watch a video, then you throw in some 9/11 and nazi speak for good measure.
> 
> You are a piece of work, just true idiocy personified. And this doesn't even relate to the issue of whether meat is good to eat or not. What you wrote, it's a giant pile of bullshit logically. You contradicted yourself and called yourself a hypocrit simultaneously....


I'm assuming the video is that of a slaughterhouse correct? In which case, do you consider Three Men one Hammer to be "information" which should be viewed and processed? And you also know the 9/11 and Nazi speak is a response to the TONNES of ridiculous paedophilic / racist / r.apist references I've had thrown at me from the guys you're agreeing with?



ReptilianSlayer said:


> You are quite literally the dumbest poster on this board. Your level of ignorance and hypocrisy knows no bounds it seems.
> 
> It isn't my 'opinion' that causing other innocent living beings harm is wrong, that's a fact - an objective truth. The world isn't all just opinions and subjectivity, there are objective truths to be discovered. What your arrogant, ignorant ass is saying is that basically everything is just an opinion and there is no such thing as actual truth.
> 
> ...


Here we go with your "shock" analogies. You are saying that meat is unheathy and that being a vegan is not. THAT is being misinformed because the majority of nutritionists or doctors would advise eating meat.



Liddellianenko said:


> As stupid an analogy as I expected.
> 
> Even if RS is doing nothing to improve the conditions of poor people in Africa or prevent ISIS beheadings etc. he is doing nothing to CAUSE their poverty or suffering directly. He isn't paying ISIS to chop those heads or African dictators to trample their people or the people on rotten .com to have those accidents or whatever.
> 
> ...


You blindly follow the crazy guy into battle here. I'll break it down (not like you'll understand it).

1. ReptilianSlayer has said that I wouldn't fight for Rosa Parks, wouldn't stop the slave trade, wouldn't stand up to the Nazis yada yada because I'd just sit by and conform to societies perception of what is "normal". In other words, I'd do NOTHING. So by you saying that ReptilianSlayer isn't causing the problem, he's doing NOTHING, the analogy is spot on because if he condemns me for doing nothing but by your words he's doing nothing to stop things either, it's the exact same.

2. ReptilianSlayer said that it's immoral and disgusting to watch a video like a slaughterhouse and then do nothing about it and continue to eat your meat. I countered that it's immoral and disgusting to watch a video of kids starving in Africa and do nothing about it and continue to eat your leaves.

I don't need to "justify my actions". You're coming in this thread and essentially calling us all paedophiles because we'd have the same morality as a result of us eating meat. We are meat eaters. You think that because you disagree with it, it's some horrific thing that we are all scum for doing. We are murderers or something. You know some people would consider you absolutely SICK for watching Mixed Martial Arts? Like Cain Velasquez and Bigfoot Silva is the most disgusting thing they've ever seen. It's perception. I choose not to watch slaughterhouse videos for the same reason I choose not to watch Two Men one Hammer.

And seriously, can you guys go through one post without saying "you're ignorant". It makes you seem desperate. The only thing worse is if you countered every post with the internet's favourite words "strawman argument".


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I
> 1. ReptilianSlayer has said that I wouldn't fight for Rosa Parks, wouldn't stop the slave trade, wouldn't stand up to the Nazis yada yada because I'd just sit by and conform to societies perception of what is "normal". In other words, I'd do NOTHING. So by you saying that ReptilianSlayer isn't causing the problem, he's doing NOTHING, the analogy is spot on because if he condemns me for doing nothing but by your words he's doing nothing to stop things either, it's the exact same.


Wrong, ReptilianSlayer said you would continue to USE slave services in those eras, endorse oppression of people like Parks, just like you continue to eat and endorse torture meat now, refusing to see what it's coming from. It's not about being a pedophile or a nazi, it's about refusing to see logic behind actions, closing your eyes and doing what you want regardless of suffering, the principle of it. 

He's saying you would happily trade with the slave farmers, maybe even own or whip a slave or two. He was not saying you'd do nothing to stop it, he was saying you'd use it. endorse it. Because it was "normal" in those times, just like this is now. That's just your morality, you don't care what your actions do (not your lack of actions, your ACTUAL actions), because those actions are not directly affecting you (or so you think). 

I think it's even nicer if you ease suffering you're not even part of, or make lives better. Ftr I have helped construct homes for homeless and such, not in Africa but in other places with poverty. But that is irrelevant to this discussion, I was not directly endorsing or creating their poverty to begin with, so it's a bonus.

If you can't be nice, at least don't cause or endorse the suffering for your blind pleasure. Even if you do endorse it, revel in it, at least push off with your terrible wisecracks at people who don't. Even if you don't, if you continue to make yourself impressively stupid enough to dodge plain logic, it's none of our concern outside of threads specific to this topic. It's your gut and your body's concern, enjoy it when it catches up 10 years down the line.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

So are we suggesting eating meat is immoral?

Because if so...we should start a thread on that! :thumb02:


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> In your scenario, people would have to eat less meat and more plant food, like you know, all of history. Like is more healthy anyway. Fewer people would die of cancer and diverticultis. Rainbows would sprout in the sky.
> 
> Seriously, It wouldn't be a problem AT ALL, because as I mentioned plant food is like 100 times less resource intensive, land, water, power included.
> 
> ...


I disagree that its done at a personal level. Thats easy for you to say when you can afford to eat healthy food. Right now I green juice every day, and that costs me $15 a day. No way someone on minimum wage or welfare could afford that. 
Poor people aren't given the choice, and they aren't educated on the choice and its the poor people that are the ones consuming the product produced in a way thats causing this problem in the first place. 

The only way the situation really turns is if there is policy at government level to stop subsidising farms and processing plants that produce these types of 'unethical' product, and a funding shift towards a return to more organic farming methods. 
People would have to start eating more vegetables and healthier as you say, but the only way it can really happen and make a proper dent on the industry is if it happens from the top down. Poor people can't make the choices you have been able to make.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

DonRifle said:


> I disagree that its done at a personal level. Thats easy for you to say when you can afford to eat healthy food. Right now I green juice every day, and that costs me $15 a day. No way someone on minimum wage or welfare could afford that.
> Poor people aren't given the choice, and they aren't educated on the choice and its the poor people that are the ones consuming the product produced in a way thats causing this problem in the first place.
> 
> The only way the situation really turns is if there is policy at government level to stop subsidising farms and processing plants that produce these types of 'unethical' product, and a funding shift towards a return to more organic farming methods.
> People would have to start eating more vegetables and healthier as you say, but the only way it can really happen and make a proper dent on the industry is if it happens from the top down. Poor people can't make the choices you have been able to make.


You make a good point, I'm probably thinking from the comfort of my own financial situation. Still, I think you're taking an extreme example ... I don't think I would spend $15 a day on juice even though I could probably afford it, you don't have to go trendy to go healthy or ethical ... if you're buying a $2 ham sandwich you can still buy a $2 cheese salad sandwich. Still cheap processed corporate food, but many times healthier without an extra dime spent, at least no steroids, torture and antibiotics.

Maybe govt. can be persuaded to do it, I know the European govts. are slightly better and less sold out than the US in that regard. At least they've banned GM foods (for now). But at the end of the day, govt. is govt., it's all a power game and the "good" don't survive long in it. 

I don't think it HAS to be top down, most positive changes I've seen have been from the bottom up. Even when govt. actually does something relatively positive, it's because of pressure built from the bottom up. 

Maybe it would help to have food options and cooperatives in each community that distributed veggies / organic type stuff, or produced them on a non-profit basis with pooled resources. It's not a pipe dream, farmers cooperatives are actually some of the largest coops in the world producing the most affordable food in the world, larger than global multi-billion dollar corporations in many instances. 

I worked with a local food charity like that once called local foods connection (http://www.localfoodsconnection.com/ if you're curious) , farmed and fed a bunch of homeless or poor people who couldn't afford better food, good organic vegetables and fruits mostly. Tied up with the local farmers around, swapped labor for produce, that sort of thing. Some of the poor people were happy to turn into volunteers as well, and a few turned their lives around from what I hear. 

You're right, not everyone has the financial luxury of choices, but it's always good to make the best with your situation I guess, and I agree positive change can often come from help outside your direct choices, as long as you're open to it.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)




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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I'm assuming the video is that of a slaughterhouse correct? In which case, do you consider Three Men one Hammer to be "information" which should be viewed and processed? And you also know the 9/11 and Nazi speak is a response to the TONNES of ridiculous paedophilic / racist / r.apist references I've had thrown at me from the guys you're agreeing with?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What don't you understand? I don't think I can make my logic any simpler or clearer than I already have but I'll give it a shot.

Here we go:

My actions do not CAUSE the suffering of Africans living in poverty on the other side of the world.

My actions do not cause the suffering of innocent people being beheaded by ISIS.

My actions do not cause the people in this "hammer video" or w/e the fck it is to do what they're doing.

Now, are you following Clyde? I've typed that out as simply as I possibly can, now onto the next part:

My actions DID CAUSE the needless suffering and torture of animals. I WAS RESPONSIBLE for their suffering, torture and death because I CHOSE to eat them.

Now, there's a clear distinction from the example I just gave and the examples I gave above.

When I came to the realization that MY ACTIONS resulted in other innocent beings suffering, I ceased to continue with those actions and changed my life style accordingly.

So, let's say, that in some way my actions are responsible for ISIS beheading people. Let's just theorize and say that's the case. My actions in the world are causing ISIS to do these things. Now, I have two options: I can educate myself on how my actions are causing this suffering and then stop it. I would be OBLIGED to watch ISIS beheading videos to fully understand how my actions are causing the violence, like I was obliged to watch slaughter house videos to understand exactly how my contribution was causing the suffering. Then I would stop committing to those actions and other people's suffering would stop.

Either that, or I could ignorantly choose to continue to carry out my actions knowing full well that I'm endorsing other people's suffering.

Again, I've really tried to explain that as clearly as possible, so I hope you understand because this is very frustrating.

And Clyde, I wasn't saying you were doing nothing to stop the slave trade, or women oppression, I was saying that YOU ENDORSED the slave trade and oppressed women. You were the slave owner and the oppressor. If you were born into Nazi germany, YOU would be the order following Nazi sending Jews off to concentration camps, all while blaming your immoral behavior on "the law" and "following orders". You were contributing to their suffering, just like you contribute to the suffering of animals right now and turn a blind eye to it - because that's who you are.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Mark tried to read this thread......


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> And Clyde, I wasn't saying you were doing nothing to stop the slave trade, or women oppression, I was saying that YOU ENDORSED the slave trade and oppressed women. You were the slave owner and the oppressor. If you were born into Nazi germany, YOU would be the order following Nazi sending Jews off to concentration camps, all while blaming your immoral behavior on "the law" and "following orders". You were contributing to their suffering, just like you contribute to the suffering of animals right now and turn a blind eye to it - because that's who you are.


If you were alive in 2015, you'd probably be an arsehole.


What about the meat eaters in the world who, you know, aren't Nazis? How about the Jews who ate meat? How about the slaves who ate meat? You love to really blow these things out of proportion with ridiculous analogies even though it means absolutely fuk all. You think every single meat eater is as bad as Hitler? Lmfao you're ridiculous man.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> If you were alive in 2015, you'd probably be an arsehole.
> 
> 
> What about the meat eaters in the world who, you know, aren't Nazis? How about the Jews who ate meat? How about the slaves who ate meat? You love to really blow these things out of proportion with ridiculous analogies even though it means absolutely fuk all. You think every single meat eater is as bad as Hitler? Lmfao you're ridiculous man.


He was referring to your thought, logic and argument process you moron. Very similar to how those people would justify themselves.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Liddellianenko said:


> He was referring to your thought, logic and argument process you moron. Very similar to how those people would operate.


Because I don't care that animals are being killed for the meat I eat, I'm a Nazi who'd wank over pedo porn and probably knock Rosa Parks out?


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Because I don't care that animals are being killed for the meat I eat, I'm a Nazi who'd wank over pedo porn and probably knock Rosa Parks out?


No because you refuse to even look at whether your actions cause suffering, make fun of those who do, you're proud of it, and justify it by saying it's the social norm. 

Why do you think you are being singled out from all the others in this thread that acknowledge they eat meat?


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Liddellianenko said:


> No because you refuse to even look at whether your actions cause suffering, make fun of those who do, are proud of it, and justify it by saying it's the social norm.


I don't think "social norm" was an argument I made, but considering the majority of the world eat meat without looking at whether that action causes suffering (or that Nike is still a highly popular brand or that the BBC is still a frequently watched TV station), and considering the internet is absolutely filled with people making fun of vegetarians...you must think that more people in the world would happily be Nazis with a taste for paedophilia than not, right?

The reason I'm being singled out is because I'm the only one who can ever be arsed to reply to your nonsense. I've got more reps from arguing with ReptilianSlayer than from anything else on the site.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I don't think "social norm" was an argument I made, but considering the majority of the world eat meat without looking at whether that action causes suffering (or that Nike is still a highly popular brand or that the BBC is still a frequently watched TV station), and considering the internet is absolutely filled with people making fun of vegetarians...you must think that more people in the world would happily be Nazis with a taste for paedophilia than not, right?
> 
> The reason I'm being singled out is because I'm the only one who can ever be arsed to reply to your nonsense. I've got more reps from arguing with ReptilianSlayer than from anything else on the site.


There are degrees of stupidity, and many would probably start to question society or their consciences would awaken if things got to the point when nazism became the norm again or child porn started to become acceptable. 

But yes, people who just "go with the flow" without thinking about actions DO become what the flow takes them to. Such people probably would become Nazis if it was the social norm. Scratch that, they DID become, less than 80 years ago. Most of a country did.

The kind of trolls that spend large amounts time online going out of their way to make fun of vegetarians or anti-vaxxers or christians or theists or whatever for their own personal amusement, yeah, they're probably in that category too. I get people that disagree with a viewpoint, but if they make it their life mission to belittle opposing viewpoints WITHOUT BEING ASKED to discuss, then they're downright morons. Not Hitler himself, but if Hitler came along and told them what to think, they'd lap it right up.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Because I don't care that animals are being killed for the meat I eat, I'm a Nazi who'd wank over pedo porn and probably knock Rosa Parks out?


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Liddellianenko said:


> There are degrees of stupidity, and many would probably start to question society or their consciences would awaken if things got to the point when nazism became the norm again or child porn started to become acceptable.
> 
> But yes, people who just "go with the flow" without thinking about actions DO become what the flow takes them to. Such people probably would become Nazis if it was the social norm. Scratch that, they DID become, less than 80 years ago. Most of a country did.
> 
> The kind of trolls that spend large amounts time online making fun of vegetarians or anti-vaxxers or christians or whatever for their own personal amusement, yeah, they're probably in that category too. I get people that disagree with a viewpoint, but if they make it their life mission to belittle opposing viewpoints WITHOUT BEING ASKED to discuss, then they're downright morons. Not Hitler himself, but if Hitler came along and told them what to think, they'd lap it right up.


But this is all stemming from me not questioning the suffering of the animals I eat. Society, in general, doesn't do that. So if you consider the unconscious consumption of animals without the proper education of it's origin (or maybe if you're just straight up against all animal 'murder'), you have to tar the general pop with the same brush. If you consider that to be on an even keel with Nazism and paedophilia, then you have to consider the majority of the world to be the kind of people who'd become Nazis or pedos.

Most of a country became Nazis, most of the world condemned them and tried to rid them from the planet. Countries which had no steak in the war condemned the Nazis because they were the bad guys. It was as simple as that. Eating meat because it tastes good isn't "going with the flow" anyways. If you think making a joke or two is trolling then refer to my previous statement that you take things too seriously. 

They are downright morons, is that kind of like making a thread saying Eating Meat is Immoral? How come you're not calling ReptilianSlayer a moron for "making it it his life mission to belittle opposing viewpoints WITHOUT BEING ASKED to discuss"? By any chance is it because you agree with him and will have a biased outlook on it from the get go? YOU challenged MC in this thread when he dropped his thoughts. He didn't ask for your input on his statement. Does that make you a moron too? 

Hitler did tell people what to think, and most of the world told him to eat a bag of dicks. You are also under the assumption that being a Nazi was a case of "going with the flow". Dudes had their entire families lives on the line if they didn't 'enlist'. It wasn't exactly optional for a lot of people, but let's not get into a debate of the history of Nazism.

You think that the majority of the world would become paedophiles or Nazis if it was the social norm, based on for example people's consumption of meat without thinking about the pain and suffering that might have led to it being handed to them. You have some merit to that argument. At one time, the age of consent was much lower and most people partook in that custom. At points in time people felt it was their duty to follow their country into war, which is even something that is still done frequently today. But what you and Rep are assuming is that you wouldn't be the guys. Like everyone else, your sense of moral code comes from a modern way of thinking. If you were born in a lifetime when having sex with 14 year olds was completely normal, you can't say "Nah man that's sick I'd have never done that" because it would require a whole different outlook on the world. Some tribes still eat people and have absolutely know sense of immortality about it because that's what their moral code follows. 

My, and most people's, moral code doesn't limit the consumption of animals. Your moral code does have such limitations. I might make a joke or two about someone who makes a certain life choice, but I sure as hell wouldn't call someone a paedophile, racist or murderer as a result of that choice (edit: unless they were a paedophile, racist or murderer of course). You think me making a joke here and there is offensive? Go outside, pick he first person you can and all them a pedo. Then you'll know what being offensive is all about.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> But this is all stemming from me not questioning the suffering of the animals I eat. Society, in general, doesn't do that. So if you consider the unconscious consumption of animals without the proper education of it's origin (or maybe if you're just straight up against all animal 'murder'), you have to tar the general pop with the same brush. If you consider that to be on an even keel with Nazism and paedophilia, then you have to consider the majority of the world to be the kind of people who'd become Nazis or pedos.
> 
> Most of a country became Nazis, most of the world condemned them and tried to rid them from the planet. Countries which had no steak in the war condemned the Nazis because they were the bad guys. It was as simple as that. Eating meat because it tastes good isn't "going with the flow" anyways. If you think making a joke or two is trolling then refer to my previous statement that you take things too seriously.
> 
> ...


You explained it yourself, the difference between yourself and the general population. They haven't been exposed to that outlook, or shown proof of the consequence of their actions, or vehemently refused to look at it, stuck their head in their sand and been proud of it. Those tribes you mentioned don't know any better, they haven't been shown that outlook.

What's the difference between you and ApeCity or Spite or Sooj in this very thread? They looked at the evidence presented, analysed, introspected. You shut down, ran away, hid behind shitty jokes.

That's the difference. That's what makes your conscience scary. Pathetic more than scary really. That's why you are inspiring these comparisons, not them and not the general population.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Liddellianenko said:


> You explained it yourself, the difference between yourself and the general population. They haven't been exposed to that outlook, or shown proof of it, or vehemently denied it, or stuck their head in their sand and been proud of it. Those tribes don't know any better, they haven't been shown that outlook.
> 
> What's the difference between you and ApeCity or Spite or Sooj in this very thread? They looked at the evidence presented, introspected, analysed. You shut down, ran away, hid behind shitty jokes.
> 
> That's the difference. That's what makes your conscience scary. Pathetic more than scary really. That's why you are inspiring these comparisons, not them and not the general population.


But they have looked at the evidence presented, introspected, analysed....and all 3 of them will continue to eat meat.

(For the record I have seen videos on it, I just don't specifically enjoy watching videos of animals getting butchered. Call me weird that way. I watched a couple that Reptilian had put me on to when we discussed this before. Ironically the dude calling me a racist Nazi repped me, thanking me for keeping the discussion civil that time.)

Most of my comments were in response to Reptilian, who I believe said that he thinks it's immoral and disgusting that anyone could watch that video and continue as they are (calling the three you mentioned disgusting).

The thing with you, and Rep, is that you feel that your opinions or your "proof" are the only logical solutions. If I don't think eating meat is immoral, I obviously haven't researched it enough. If I don't agree with anti-vaxers, I haven't researched it enough. Granted of all the things I've watched videos on, the origins of meat aren't the highest on my agenda, but why would I want to watch something that might put me off my food? I try to avoid seeing videos of massive black slime growths inside Capri Suns and spiders climbing out of Bananas when I go on Facebook as well. I doubt it would happen with meat, but when I was 14 I was put off of eating bread for like a month after just hearing a story about a rat being cut up inside a loaf once.

I like eating meat. It's as simple as that. I don't want to stop eating meat based on a shock video. I've read up on vegetarianism, I've read up on veganism and I've read up on a couple of other diets, and none of them are really for me. I don't consider it immoral to eat meat, I don't consider it strange for someone to not wish to watch slaughterhouse videos, I don't think that's unreasonable. I couldn't be a butcher. I'd be too squeamish. I still enjoy eating the meat though. Plenty of people probably wouldn't enjoy being down in the sewers sticking their hands in shite, but they'll still be happy enough to go to the toilet each day.

If you guys are really going to be taken back by a few jokes, then THAT is where I say you take things too seriously. I watch Family Guy, South Park, Frankie Boyle etc. so I'm not as faint hearted or offended when someone throws out a joke about something I believe in.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Don't take the Nazi thing personally. I've been called that dozens of times by him.

I usually have a rule, once someone starts comparing me to a Nazi I leave the conversation. Absurdity at it's finest.


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## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

I haven't read all of your latest back and forth here but something I felt should be pointed out is that there isn't any real moral difference between causing something bad and refrain from preventing it if you are capable of doing so. Omission is also an action, of doing nothing. But thing is, ethics like this isn't an all-or-nothing affair. Just because someone doesn't do 100% of all the good he is capable of, doesn't mean that the good he actually does ceases to be good. The hypocrisy charge isn't really relevant here. Only perhaps if he is glorifying himself as a Jesus-person or being condecending or the like but that's a different question.

Starting to eat less meat even if you don't quit entirely is better than not changing anything. Choosing more expensive meat from better places than factories like in the video is also much better than doing nothing. Personally I stopped eating meat several years ago but I still use capsules made from bovine gelatin with omega-3 fatty acids made from fish. I do think it would be better with some other solution (like omega-3 from plankton which I'm looking into) but until then it's still better than doing nothing. Perhaps I can't call myself vegan (which is an all-or-nothing "title" if I understand it correctly) but that's not why I got into this.

For anyone interested about the discussion of action versus non-action or about animal rights, I very much recommend the Australian philosopher Peter Singer.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

It's a choice I don't mind when it's not tried to be pushed onto others for moral reasons.

If someone personally feels a certain way about eating the flesh of animals, then by all means they can stop. Some people's morality on that matter goes as far as wanting free range animals, others think that consumption by any means is sick. As long as in morality it stops at personal beliefs (like Religion or whatever else), then that's okay. Your decisions and choices aren't effecting anyone else's.

If someone is choosing it for the purposes of a diet, as long as they have done the research properly and can be healthy without meat then 100% if it makes you feel better than go ahead. To say vegans and unhealthy is stupid because they have as many opportunities to get everything as meat eaters do, it just requires little bit more research (which should be the first thing you do before committing to a big lifestyle change). I wouldn't even mind someone suggesting that I become a vegetarian or vegan based on pure health situations. I feel that suggesting a diet is a fair thing to do. As long as they understand that their morality and the morality of others are completely separate things, then that's fine. You can branch this off into "well the Nazis thought they were morally correct" or whatever bollocks you want but there's an obvious scale to everything. Every meat eater will be willing to acknowledge the hypocrisy of eating cow but finding eating dog to be disgusting.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Don't take the Nazi thing personally. I've been called that dozens of times by him.
> 
> I usually have a rule, once someone starts comparing me to a Nazi I leave the conversation. Absurdity at it's finest.


My term for Nazi = ORDER FOLLOWER. The Nazi's epitomized order following. When I refer to you as a Nazi it doesn't mean you're killing Jews, it means that like the Nazis, you will follow any order given to you by some perceived authority.

You already admitted this I believe, when I asked if in your line of duty, your superior ordered you to carry out an immoral order - such as throwing some one in a cage for smoking cannabis, whether you'd carry out the order or quit your job. I can't remember if you admitted to it or just evaded the question entirely.

That's what I mean by Nazism here and in all of my previous claims. Some one who will follow an order without using their conscience to actually decide whether the action they're carrying out is immoral or not.

If a "superior" gives you an immoral order, you will still follow the order rather than quit your job. That's the mindset I'm referring to.

Nazi's were just people who followed their orders, this has been proven in psychological experiments such as the milgram study.

And just lol @ Clyde saying "I watch south park and frankie boyle, I'm not sensitive and can take a joke."

You moron, I've been watching South Park since you were likely still in pampers and love outrageous comedians, that's got nothing to do with understanding what morality is or being ignorant. In fact, there have been south park episodes where they have clearly pointed out the immorality and insanity of slaughter houses.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> My term for Nazi = ORDER FOLLOWER. The Nazi's epitomized order following. When I refer to you as a Nazi it doesn't mean you're killing Jews, it means that like the Nazis, you will follow any order given to you by some perceived authority.
> 
> You already admitted this I believe, when I asked if in your line of duty, your superior ordered you to carry out an immoral order - such as throwing some one in a cage for smoking cannabis, whether you'd carry out the order or quit your job. I can't remember if you admitted to it or just evaded the question entirely.
> 
> ...


Explain to me how anything I have said regarding eating meat in this thread has led to me being labelled a Nazi then. Nobody has every ordered me to eat meat. You can pull out the social convention card if you want but when there's tonnes of unique things each of us do every day, it's not exactly like one thing like eating meet is a sheep effect (mmmmm sheep).

You're the kind of guy who gets pissed off when South Park takes the piss out of your beliefs and writes them a strongly worded letter.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Nomale said:


> I haven't read all of your latest back and forth here but something I felt should be pointed out is that there isn't any real moral difference between causing something bad and refrain from preventing it if you are capable of doing so. Omission is also an action, of doing nothing. But thing is, ethics like this isn't an all-or-nothing affair. Just because someone doesn't do 100% of all the good he is capable of, doesn't mean that the good he actually does ceases to be good. The hypocrisy charge isn't really relevant here. Only perhaps if he is glorifying himself as a Jesus-person or being condecending or the like but that's a different question.
> 
> Starting to eat less meat even if you don't quit entirely is better than not changing anything. Choosing more expensive meat from better places than factories like in the video is also much better than doing nothing. Personally I stopped eating meat several years ago but I still use capsules made from bovine gelatin with omega-3 fatty acids made from fish. I do think it would be better with some other solution (like omega-3 from plankton which I'm looking into) but until then it's still better than doing nothing. Perhaps I can't call myself vegan (which is an all-or-nothing "title" if I understand it correctly) but that's not why I got into this.
> 
> For anyone interested about the discussion of action versus non-action or about animal rights, I very much recommend the Australian philosopher Peter Singer.


Great post, totally agree with the degrees of action thing and everything else.

Just thought I'd mention, for Omega-3s you don't need fish oil, you can get it from flaxseed, you can sprinkle some in cereal or bake into flatbread / crisps etc. It's only one of many Omega-3s, but your body can manufacture the rest as long as you have enough of other vitamins and minerals (B vitamins, C, Zinc and Magnesium), all of which you can also get adequately from veg sources.

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=76

It's the same argument as proteins ... like plant protein isn't "complete" etc., but really your body doesn't need everything given to it on a platter, it can make all the more complex proteins and acids itself as long as you give it the raw materials that it can't make. You'll even burn some more calories and have a more exhaustive metabolism in the process, and who doesn't want an overactive metabolism right? Since when is making the metabolism lazy a good thing.

IMO you should concentrate on the things that body can't synthesise, complete Omega-3s and complete proteins are a false argument to pretend you "need" meat.

As a personal anecdote, I can mention I don't do a single supplement and don't eat any meat or fish products for years now, and I'm built somewhat better even than when I was when I did eat meat, leaner too. Not by much, but I managed to maintain and add a little at near 6'3" 200 lbs of pretty lean muscle. Not bad for a lentil eating ***** with no supplements I guess .

You just need to be smart about it and expand your horizons, because the "standard" western diet of bread, potatoes and pasta with a helping of GM soy to replace the meat is the worst way to do it, but you sound like you already know all that. Make sure you add lots of different nuts, seeds, legumes, greens, whole foods, sunlight and yes if the exotic stuff like good fermented foods, algaes etc. if you can get them.

Thought I'd chip this in, will get back to Clyde's arguments later, I've spent way too much time on this board today.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

I find it amusing that there are actually users here who read Clyde posts at all, let alone respond to them.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Woodenhead said:


> I find it amusing that there are actually users here who read Clyde posts at all, let alone respond to them.


I find it amusing that you post so little but have a bizarre ability to know what I'm posting at all times. Almost like you're a multi account or something.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Explain to me how anything I have said regarding eating meat in this thread has led to me being labelled a Nazi then. Nobody has every ordered me to eat meat. You can pull out the social convention card if you want but when there's tonnes of unique things each of us do every day, it's not exactly like one thing like eating meet is a sheep effect (mmmmm sheep).
> 
> You're the kind of guy who gets pissed off when South Park takes the piss out of your beliefs and writes them a strongly worded letter.


Firstly, South Park is the funniest show on the planet, so please refrain from trying decipher my sense of humor. I'm very surprised you like Frankie Boyle since his beliefs directly oppose yours and he's very big in the "truth" "conspiracy" movement. That's why the BBC got rid of him and his public profile has diminished massively over recent years. He'd tear you a new asshole for your dumb ass beliefs.

My point about you being a Nazi was that you're nothing more than the product of your culture. You will blindly go with the flow without questioning the morality of your actions. Software program perception.

You'd be the Nazi in Germany, the slave master in America, the guy laughing when people were burned at the stake for challenging norms, and even earlier than that, the guy who'd support human sacrifice for the "gods" in the ancient days. 

What's crazy now turns out to be truth 100 years down the line. It was crazy to even consider a black african not owned by a white master just a few years ago, now we see how dumb and immoral it is. Crazy back then, truth now.

The way we look back now at the insanity of our species just a few years ago will be the same way future generations look back at us now.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Liddellianenko said:


> Thought I'd chip this in, will get back to Clyde's arguments later, I've spent way too much time on this board today.


I don't think you actually believe that people who eat meat without researching it at first have the same mentality of Nazis and paedophiles. Maybe that or I give you too much credit. I don't have a problem with vegans or vegetarians and don't really think I ever have.

You and Rep just have a problem with people who don't see things your way. I don't live in lala land where I think those who eat meat are murderers so I probably will never see things your way barring some life altering change / head injury.

I'll probably respond as long as the thread is opened but it will only be to discuss how insane it is to compare paedophilia to eating meat without reading pamphlets about it first.

While we're on the topic of morality, I actually think you're absolute scum if you bring up paedophilia and r.ape in a thread about diets. Guess we just have different moral codes eh?


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I don't think you actually believe that people who eat meat without researching it at first have the same mentality of Nazis and paedophiles. Maybe that or I give you too much credit. I don't have a problem with vegans or vegetarians and don't really think I ever have.
> 
> You and Rep just have a problem with people who don't see things your way. I don't live in lala land where I think those who eat meat are murderers so I probably will never see things your way barring some life altering change / head injury.
> 
> ...


I don't care about what other people choose to believe, as long as their beliefs aren't violently imposed on anyone else.

Written down "laws" (nothing more than beliefs) state that it is "illegal" for me to do certain things, moral things. These beliefs (laws) are violently imposed on me by people like Pheelgood and police officers. Their beliefs are violently imposed on me, I have a problem with that.

You believe that its ok to slaughter animals en masse and eat their flash. That's you violently imposing your beliefs on innocent animals who don't have a voice.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> You'd be the Nazi in Germany, the slave master in America, the guy laughing when people were burned at the stake for challenging norms, and even earlier than that, the guy who'd support human sacrifice for the "gods" in the ancient days.


The fact you actually believe this nonsense tells me everything I need to know about you. This isn't about everyone else. This is about you and your self righteousness feeling of superiority over the masses. 

To think we are committing the equivalent of enslavement, genocide, and sacrifice is one of the most absurd things I've read from you... and that says a lot. There are no middle grounds with you. If we made our own conscious decision to do something or act in a certain way, you automatically assume we have made that choice out of a lack of morality because it doesn't fit your view. Therefore = Nazi.

That's my one comment. I'm not getting suckered into a debate more than I already have.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> I don't care about what other people choose to believe, as long as their beliefs aren't violently imposed on anyone else.
> 
> Written down "laws" (nothing more than beliefs) state that it is "illegal" for me to do certain things, moral things. These beliefs (laws) are violently imposed on me by people like Pheelgood and police officers. Their beliefs are violently imposed on me, I have a problem with that.
> 
> You believe that its ok to slaughter animals en masse and eat their flash. That's you violently imposing your beliefs on innocent animals who don't have a voice.


You believe it's okay to imply someone would be willing to r.ape someone if they law permitted them to do so. That's you being the biggest scumbag on the entire site.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Nomale said:


> I haven't read all of your latest back and forth here but something I felt should be pointed out is that there isn't any real moral difference between causing something bad and refrain from preventing it if you are capable of doing so. Omission is also an action, of doing nothing. But thing is, ethics like this isn't an all-or-nothing affair. Just because someone doesn't do 100% of all the good he is capable of, doesn't mean that the good he actually does ceases to be good. The hypocrisy charge isn't really relevant here. Only perhaps if he is glorifying himself as a Jesus-person or being condecending or the like but that's a different question.
> 
> Starting to eat less meat even if you don't quit entirely is better than not changing anything. Choosing more expensive meat from better places than factories like in the video is also much better than doing nothing. Personally I stopped eating meat several years ago but I still use capsules made from bovine gelatin with omega-3 fatty acids made from fish. I do think it would be better with some other solution (like omega-3 from plankton which I'm looking into) but until then it's still better than doing nothing. Perhaps I can't call myself vegan (which is an all-or-nothing "title" if I understand it correctly) but that's not why I got into this.
> 
> For anyone interested about the discussion of action versus non-action or about animal rights, I very much recommend the Australian philosopher Peter Singer.


This is a great post... Its not even viable for some people to become vegans, and survival comes first, before the survival of others. 

But anything you can do to change is a plus, its one step in the right direction. It has taken me a long time to change my diet, i don't think i was eating meat because i was actually immoral, i think it was because i was to weak/lazy to change. But slowly i kept changing bit by bit until i barely even noticed i was practically a vegetarian anyway.

What Clyde says now is exactly the sort of shit i would've said when i was younger, nobody likes being told they are doing something wrong/evil/immoral (as true as it is) and i do not think it does any good saying stuff like that... as much as you might want to say it, certain...petty people are more than likely to just go against you even more if they feel slighted.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Joabbuac said:


> What Clyde says now is exactly the sort of shit i would've said when i was younger, nobody likes being told they are doing something wrong/evil/immoral (as true as it is) and i do not think it does any good saying stuff like that... as much as you might want to say it, certain...petty people are more than likely to just go against you even more if they feel slighted.


I'm just waiting for the next James Bond film about the evil Russian who orders the steak.

Must be good for you guys. Since there's a couple of you in here with your relentless ridiculousness, feeling like you're not looked upon with absolute hilarity must be a fantastic feeling. The entire world would burst out laughing in your face if you called them wrong/evil/immortal for eating a Big Mac.

You guys are the exact reason vegetarians and vegans get so much abuse.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

PheelGoodInc said:


> The fact you actually believe this nonsense tells me everything I need to know about you. This isn't about everyone else. This is about you and your self righteousness feeling of superiority over the masses.
> 
> To think we are committing the equivalent of enslavement, genocide, and sacrifice is one of the most absurd things I've read from you... and that says a lot. There are no middle grounds with you. If we made our own conscious decision to do something or act in a certain way, you automatically assume we have made that choice out of a lack of morality because it doesn't fit your view. Therefore = Nazi.
> 
> That's my one comment. I'm not getting suckered into a debate more than I already have.


If you were born into Germany at the time of the Nazi supremacy do you actually believe you'd be one of the "good guys" who refused service? I don't think so pal.

The entire country was virtually brainwashed, you'd be no different back then, just like you aren't right now.

I don't actually believe I'm superior to anyone, including the animals. We are all equals, that's been my point the entire time. I just get frustrated when people can't see the truth when it's presented to them very clearly.

The one that believes they're superior is actually you. You put on your blue uniform every day and play cop where you can issue commands to other citizens. That's superiority, that's believing you're separate from everyone else because of a badge and uniform.

I have no interest in ordering other human beings around, because they are my equal - brothers and sisters in the human family. I get frustrated at people's actions but I do not feel superior to anyone else what so ever and have no desire to seek dominion over others.

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

If ReptilianSlayer was born in Germany during the Nazi invasion he'd be bragging about how he technically didn't CAUSE the Nazi's to do anything wrong so he's okay with doing nothing about it.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> If ReptilianSlayer was born in Germany during the Nazi invasion he'd be bragging about how he technically didn't CAUSE the Nazi's to do anything wrong so he's okay with doing nothing about it.


No, I'd actually not participate in the act and serve my time in prison for it - like Muhamad Ali was prepared to do when he was ordered to go to Vietnam. That's true nobility.

If National Service was brought to this country or I was drafted into a war where I'm invading another country, I'd refuse to participate in that violent behavior and serve my time in prison.

Like I said, seeking dominion over others whether it be through eating flesh, wearing a cop uniform or invading other countries does not interest me.

Also, if I was in Nazi germany and carried out the acts, I WOULD BE CAUSING it, moron.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

More power to Mark Hunt on how he chooses to eat, but I'm skeptical that a man who visually appears to love food as much as he seems will stick with it, imho.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> No, I'd actually not participate in the act and serve my time in prison for it - like Muhamad Ali was prepared to do when he was ordered to go to Vietnam. That's true nobility.
> 
> If National Service was brought to this country or I was drafted into a war where I'm invading another country, I'd refuse to participate in that violent behavior and serve my time in prison.
> 
> Like I said, seeking dominion over others whether it be through eating flesh, wearing a cop uniform or invading other countries does not interest me.


Calling people ra.pist and paedophiles and having militant beliefs on everything does not interest me.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Calling people ra.pist and paedophiles and having militant beliefs on everything does not interest me.


I don't recall ever calling you a pedophile. I said that by your chimp logic, it's impossible to say that a child molester is in the wrong because, according to you, everyone just has a different "opinion".

Militant beliefs. It was a militant belief to state that black people should be free just a few years ago. They were laughed at, mocked, ridiculed - now it's truth.

Crazy today = truth 100 years later, I've alredy explained this to you.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> I don't recalling ever calling you a pedophile. I said that by your chimp logic, it's impossible to say that a child molester is in the wrong because, according to you, everyone just has a different "opinion".
> 
> Militant beliefs. It was a militant belief to state that black people should be free just a few years ago. They were laughed at, mocked, ridiculed - now it's truth.
> 
> Crazy today = truth 100 years later, I've alredy explained this to you.


Okay then you just called me a r.apist. Your tag team partner said pedo.

You compare yourself to so many heroic people that it's hilarious. I don't remember Martin Luther King saying "I had a dream, I had a dream that the police officers, who are just as bad as the Nazis and ra.pists, quit that shit".


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Okay then you just called me a r.apist. Your tag team partner said pedo.
> 
> You compare yourself to so many heroic people that it's hilarious. I don't remember Martin Luther King saying "I had a dream, I had a dream that the police officers, who are just as bad as the Nazis and ra.pists, quit that shit".


Interesting. The founding fathers of America were labelled as "terrorists" by the British establishment.

To quote Margaret Thathcer: "Nelson Mandela is a terrorist."

These heroic people you mention were terrorists, outlaws, anarchists, HATED by the establishment and media for a long, long time. Served in prison many of them, for a long time - criminals.

Remember that one chap, what was his name? Jesus. They NAILED HIM TO A FCKING CROSS - a crazy man, vilified, mocked, tortured - crazy back then, worshiped now.


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## Warning (Nov 18, 2009)

Obviously being vegan turns a person a bit nutty. Have a burger and chillax.


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## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> *It's a choice I don't mind when it's not tried to be pushed onto others for moral reasons.*
> 
> If someone personally feels a certain way about eating the flesh of animals, then by all means they can stop. Some people's morality on that matter goes as far as wanting free range animals, others think that consumption by any means is sick. As long as in morality it stops at personal beliefs (like Religion or whatever else), then that's okay. Your decisions and choices aren't effecting anyone else's.
> 
> If someone is choosing it for the purposes of a diet, as long as they have done the research properly and can be healthy without meat then 100% if it makes you feel better than go ahead. To say vegans and unhealthy is stupid because they have as many opportunities to get everything as meat eaters do, it just requires little bit more research (which should be the first thing you do before committing to a big lifestyle change). I wouldn't even mind someone suggesting that I become a vegetarian or vegan based on pure health situations. I feel that suggesting a diet is a fair thing to do. *As long as they understand that their morality and the morality of others are completely separate things*, then that's fine. You can branch this off into "well the Nazis thought they were morally correct" or whatever bollocks you want but there's an obvious scale to everything. Every meat eater will be willing to acknowledge the hypocrisy of eating cow but finding eating dog to be disgusting.


It's very difficult when saying that the question is just about eating meat or not. Very much comes down to how the animal is treated. To raise and kill a pig in a "humane" way is much much better than doing it like in the video. That's not really up to anyones personal belief is it? If I believed it to be ok to torture animals that belief can't really make it ok can it?

If you say you think it's ok to keep pigs who suffer for meat I'd say you are definitely wrong. If you say it's ok to eat meat from pigs who live happy and die painless I would just say it's a difficult question with no clear answer to me.

I would surely say that the good moral step from eating meat from animals from the worst of conditions to animals who live good and die painless is much bigger than from that best of conditions to go vegan. Life without suffering is kind of a bliss in a way even if it ends on someone's plate. 

Personally I want as little to do with the meat industry as I can since I don't know how every animal is treated. Even from the "normal" meat industry (that is, not just the horror shows like in the vid) reports of mis-treatment seems to be coming pretty steadily. 



Liddellianenko said:


> Great post, totally agree with the degrees of action thing and everything else.
> 
> Just thought I'd mention, for Omega-3s you don't need fish oil, you can get it from flaxseed, you can sprinkle some in cereal or bake into flatbread / crisps etc. It's only one of many Omega-3s, but your body can manufacture the rest as long as you have enough of other vitamins and minerals (B vitamins, C, Zinc and Magnesium), all of which you can also get adequately from veg sources.
> 
> ...


Thing is I have an health issue with lots of mental fatigue. After I got that I noticed it gets much worse without daily omega-3. I didn't have that much need for omega-3 before this happened though. I tried vegetable sources but it didn't have the same effect. Not sure how much of it was flaxseed oil though. My conclusion was that my condition made me need the EPA and DHA more than my body could synthesize from ALA. But it might be worthwhile to try the vegetable sources again and flaxseed oil in particular.

Have to say though that the nutritional content of the algae or bacteria or whatever it is Spirulina looks pretty awesome. Too bad it's been some quality concerns in some production plants but that should be solved by now.



Woodenhead said:


> I find it amusing that there are actually users here who read Clyde posts at all, let alone respond to them.


Well, in this thread he sort of represents what a great many people think about this. That is, beneath the hurricane of words between him and reptilian. 



ClydebankBlitz said:


> I find it amusing that you post so little but have a bizarre ability to know what I'm posting at all times. Almost like you're a multi account or something.


This made me laugh out loud. You have a certain style Clyde I give you that. :thumbsup:


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

I have some ADHD, the omega-3 helps me function, so i take them, i count it as one of my "Do what i have to too survive" qualification on the whole vegetarian thing.


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

Joabbuac said:


> I have some ADHD, the omega-3 helps me function, so i take them, i count it as one of my "Do what i have to too survive" qualification on the whole vegetarian thing.


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## Scarecrow (Mar 20, 2008)

I swear every thread opened by RS ends up being nothing more than an outlet for his personal opinions. Most people on this forum will make a post and let it ride with an occational reply but threads like this are overkill.

We start off on veganism and end up with pedophilia? WTF


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

ReptilianSlayer said:


>


Like Nomale said, is that gonna have the same effect? I... selfishly or not, value my own quality of life over the lives of others. 

I'm going off on a tangent here, but people often throw around the words "Human nature" as a reason why they should eat meat, its bullshit, the human nature is the will to survive, in this day and age in first world countries meat is no longer required to survive, but i refuse to condemn anyone in a position where it is required to live a good quality of life.


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## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

ReptilianSlayer said:


>


We just discussed the different kinds of omega-3 and that there are concerns about the vegetarian sources for certain conditions. EPA and DHA are almost exclusively found in marine life. The vegetarian sources on land has almost exclusively the ALA version. It sure is worth a try, but I think he knows how boxes of seeds looks like.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Someone say something about Mark Hunt quick so this stays UFC related!


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Ape City said:


> Someone say something about Mark Hunt quick so this stays UFC related!


But, all of this is *UFC* related:

*U*ltimate *F*ood *C*ontroversy.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I've been liking Sportsman recently


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I've been liking Sportsman recently


Oh, no. There's only one explanation for this.
As I feared, you guys have repeatedly hit Clyde too hard on his head in this thread.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Sometimes when the numbers are against me in threads like this I have to stop and think "I CAN'T be wrong here" but luckily the opinions of people out of the thread usually bring me back to reality 

But yeah, you've been less "What the hell is Sportsman even talking about?" and more "Here's a hilarious picture".


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Woodenhead said:


> I find it amusing that there are actually users here who read Clyde posts at all, let alone respond to them.


That was a well spent green rep, right here.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

This thread is kind of like AA for the worst members on the site. I'm sick of mediating.


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## King Daisuke (Mar 25, 2013)

If Mark Hunt wants to become a vegan, Mark Hunt becomes a vegan. Mark Hunt can do what ever the hell he wants as far as I'm concerned. Super Samoan FTW!


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)




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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Scarecrow said:


> I swear every thread opened by RS ends up being nothing more than an outlet for his personal opinions. Most people on this forum will make a post and let it ride with an occational reply but threads like this are overkill.
> 
> We start off on veganism and end up with pedophilia? WTF


The reptile people are controlling your mind through the meat. See its the meat they use to introduce a foreign substance into your system so that they can placate your species and make plans to rule the world!


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## ReptilianSlayer (Sep 2, 2013)

slapshot said:


> The reptile people are controlling your mind through the meat. See its the meat they use to introduce a foreign substance into your system so that they can placate your species and make plans to rule the world!


It wasn't funny the first time you cracked that joke, it isn't funny now.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

ReptilianSlayer said:


> It wasn't funny the first time you cracked that joke, it isn't funny now.












Its not a joke, its a mental illness.


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