# Best UFC fighter of all time? (not PRIDE or any other MMA league)



## Rush

Who do you think is the best UFC fighter of all time out of each weight class based on accomplishments, wins, dominant, etc.

I think the best would have been Belfort but he blew it all away once he returned and became a boring fighter. The best ever has to be Matt Hughes. Matt Hughes is strong, a great grappler, submissionist, hes good all around. And not to mention he dominated the formerly greatest fighter ever. Who do you think is the best ever?


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## USMCgrappler

Hard to judge now with weight classes. 

I would have to pick Marco Ruas. 
He never had a legitimate loss in the UFC. (Somehow bloodying Oleg to a pulp and kicking his ass into next year, while not suffering a scratch led to a loss). Had that not happened, I think he would have ruled for a long time.


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## Kameleon

*Ken Shamrock!*


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## brownpimp88

mark kerr,lol. In reality its proly a guy like chuck or randy.


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## Eminem

Heavy Weight-:Ken Shamrock 

Light Heavy weight - Chuck Liddell

Middle weight - Never realy been a dominate Champ, So id say Rich

Welterweight - Matt Hughes

Light weight - ya know im realy not sure :dunno:


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## USMCgrappler

Eminem said:


> Heavy Weight-:Ken Shamrock
> 
> Light Heavy weight - Chuck Liddell
> 
> Middle weight - Never realy been a dominate Champ, So id say Rich
> 
> Welterweight - Matt Hughes
> 
> Light weight - ya know im realy not sure :dunno:



Thanks for being the bright and shining example of "new to the sport." I recommend you buy the first 30 UFCs and tell me who is the best heavyweight and middleweight.

Ken Shamrock was the master of not continuing a tournament (either by loss or injury). He also never beat any real fighters. 

Loss Rich Franklin TKO (Strikes) UFC-Ultimate Fighter Finale 4/9/2005 1 2:42 
Win Kimo Leopoldo TKO (Knee) UFC 48-Payback 6/19/2004 1 1:26 
Loss Tito Ortiz TKO (Corner Stoppage) UFC 40-Vendetta 11/22/2002 3 5:00 
Loss Dan Severn Decision UFC 9-Motor City Madness 5/17/1996 1 30:00 
Win Kimo Leopoldo Submission (Kneebar) UFC 8-David vs. Goliath 2/16/1996 1 4:24 
Draw Oleg Taktarov Draw UFC 7-The Brawl in Buffalo 9/8/1995 1 33:00 
Win Dan Severn Submission (Guillotine Choke) UFC 6-Clash of the Titans 7/14/1995 1 2:14 
Draw Royce Gracie Draw UFC 5-The Return of the Beast 4/7/1995 1 36:00 
Win Felix Mitchell Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UFC 3-The American Dream 9/9/1994 1 4:34 
Win Christophe Leninger Submission (Strikes) UFC 3-The American Dream 9/9/1994 1 4:49 
Loss Royce Gracie Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UFC 1-The Beginning 11/12/1993 1 0:57 
Win Patrick Smith Submission (Heel Hook) UFC 1-The Beginning 11/12/1993 1 1:49 

Have you ever seen Frank Shamrock?

Has he been banned from the UFC or something? He is not on the fighters list. He was the most dominant middleweight the UFC ever had. 


Win Tito Ortiz Submission (Strikes) UFC 22-There Can Be Only One Champion 9/24/1999 4 4:42 
Win John Lober Submission (Strikes) UFC Brazil-Ultimate Brazil 10/16/1998 1 7:40 
Win Jeremy Horn Submission (Kneebar) UFC 17-Redemption 5/15/1998 1 16:28 
Win Igor Zinoviev KO (Slam) UFC 16-Battle in the Bayou 3/13/1998 1 0:22 
Win Kevin Jackson Submission (Armbar) UFC Japan-Ultimate Japan 1 12/21/1997 1 0:16 

The records speak for themselves. The wrong Shamrock is in the hall of fame. Ken is a joke to the UFC and is only popular due to his WWF time. 
No knowledgable fan holds Ken's UFC record in any high regard.


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## samurice

I think the right Shamrock is in the HoF. The record argument is pointless, look at Randy Couture's record. Ken may not be as good as Frank, but he did do more for the sport than Frank. His fighting style is one of the things that made UFC so big in the beginning. Granted, that doesn't make him the best HW of all time either...


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## brownpimp88

Your missing his fight against brian johnston, ken is in the HOF cuz he's a big draw.


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## NegadivOne

I would definately say ken shamrock or matt hughes.


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## A DOG

*best fighters*

I've been watching ufc since the beginning and I am a big fan like some of u are, here is a good opinion of who the best fighters were and are to this day in the UFC.

Heavyweight- between Arlovski and Sylvia, we'll find out at UfC 61

Lightheavyweight- between Chuck and Randy ( although Chuck beat him at the grudgematch, Randy accomplished more in the UFC.) It's a toss up for me.

Middleweight- I'd have to go with my man Frank Shamrock, undefeated, and he could teach Rick Franklin a lesson or two.

Welterweight-Although I don't like him that much I have to give my props to Matt Hughes he has proved himself over and over.

Lightweight- Not a big fan of this division but I think Ives Edwards is up there.


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## A DOG

Kameleon said:


> *Ken Shamrock!*


I respect your opinion, but Ken Shamrock is by no means the best fighter, you obviously don't no much about this stuff.


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## Eminem

> Thanks for being the bright and shining example of "new to the sport." I recommend you buy the first 30 UFCs and tell me who is the best heavyweight and middleweight.
> 
> Ken Shamrock was the master of not continuing a tournament (either by loss or injury). He also never beat any real fighters.
> 
> Loss Rich Franklin TKO (Strikes) UFC-Ultimate Fighter Finale 4/9/2005 1 2:42
> Win Kimo Leopoldo TKO (Knee) UFC 48-Payback 6/19/2004 1 1:26
> Loss Tito Ortiz TKO (Corner Stoppage) UFC 40-Vendetta 11/22/2002 3 5:00
> Loss Dan Severn Decision UFC 9-Motor City Madness 5/17/1996 1 30:00
> Win Kimo Leopoldo Submission (Kneebar) UFC 8-David vs. Goliath 2/16/1996 1 4:24
> Draw Oleg Taktarov Draw UFC 7-The Brawl in Buffalo 9/8/1995 1 33:00
> Win Dan Severn Submission (Guillotine Choke) UFC 6-Clash of the Titans 7/14/1995 1 2:14
> Draw Royce Gracie Draw UFC 5-The Return of the Beast 4/7/1995 1 36:00
> Win Felix Mitchell Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UFC 3-The American Dream 9/9/1994 1 4:34
> Win Christophe Leninger Submission (Strikes) UFC 3-The American Dream 9/9/1994 1 4:49
> Loss Royce Gracie Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UFC 1-The Beginning 11/12/1993 1 0:57
> Win Patrick Smith Submission (Heel Hook) UFC 1-The Beginning 11/12/1993 1 1:49
> 
> Have you ever seen Frank Shamrock?
> 
> Has he been banned from the UFC or something? He is not on the fighters list. He was the most dominant middleweight the UFC ever had.
> 
> 
> Win Tito Ortiz Submission (Strikes) UFC 22-There Can Be Only One Champion 9/24/1999 4 4:42
> Win John Lober Submission (Strikes) UFC Brazil-Ultimate Brazil 10/16/1998 1 7:40
> Win Jeremy Horn Submission (Kneebar) UFC 17-Redemption 5/15/1998 1 16:28
> Win Igor Zinoviev KO (Slam) UFC 16-Battle in the Bayou 3/13/1998 1 0:22
> Win Kevin Jackson Submission (Armbar) UFC Japan-Ultimate Japan 1 12/21/1997 1 0:16
> 
> The records speak for themselves. The wrong Shamrock is in the hall of fame. Ken is a joke to the UFC and is only popular due to his WWF time.
> No knowledgable fan holds Ken's UFC record in any high regard.
> __________________


 Ive been watching UFC since i was 5 smart ass And where the hell is your list???

Ken Dominated his weight class.


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## Rush

Eminem said:


> Ken Dominated his weight class.


Not really. You said he was a heavyweight when he was in middleweight and light heavyweight fights. Oh well, he might be a heavyweight, I don't know that much about the weight class s---.

He didn't dominate any class except in his early days. Royce Gracie and Dan Severn were more successful than Ken. And when Ken returned to the UFC he got owned and didn't dominate anyone anytime. Tito Ortiz sent him out of action for another two years, then he came back and was the role of a punching bag during a Rich Franklin fight.

But he has done a lot for the business. I mean without him the submissions would be crappy. Without him back then in the early days it would have just been knuckle fighting except with Gracie in the ring. He was sort of like Belfort and Abbott. Both were awesome in their early days but when they returned to the octagon it was a whole new game and they were molested in the ring.

Other notables to be the greatest UFC fighters should be:
Bas Rutten
Frank Shamrock
Pat Miletich


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## Cbingham

USMCgrappler said:


> Thanks for being the bright and shining example of "new to the sport." I recommend you buy the first 30 UFCs and tell me who is the best heavyweight and middleweight.
> 
> Ken Shamrock was the master of not continuing a tournament (either by loss or injury). He also never beat any real fighters.
> 
> Loss Rich Franklin TKO (Strikes) UFC-Ultimate Fighter Finale 4/9/2005 1 2:42
> Win Kimo Leopoldo TKO (Knee) UFC 48-Payback 6/19/2004 1 1:26
> Loss Tito Ortiz TKO (Corner Stoppage) UFC 40-Vendetta 11/22/2002 3 5:00
> Loss Dan Severn Decision UFC 9-Motor City Madness 5/17/1996 1 30:00
> Win Kimo Leopoldo Submission (Kneebar) UFC 8-David vs. Goliath 2/16/1996 1 4:24
> Draw Oleg Taktarov Draw UFC 7-The Brawl in Buffalo 9/8/1995 1 33:00
> Win Dan Severn Submission (Guillotine Choke) UFC 6-Clash of the Titans 7/14/1995 1 2:14
> Draw Royce Gracie Draw UFC 5-The Return of the Beast 4/7/1995 1 36:00
> Win Felix Mitchell Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UFC 3-The American Dream 9/9/1994 1 4:34
> Win Christophe Leninger Submission (Strikes) UFC 3-The American Dream 9/9/1994 1 4:49
> Loss Royce Gracie Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UFC 1-The Beginning 11/12/1993 1 0:57
> Win Patrick Smith Submission (Heel Hook) UFC 1-The Beginning 11/12/1993 1 1:49
> 
> Have you ever seen Frank Shamrock?
> 
> Has he been banned from the UFC or something? He is not on the fighters list. He was the most dominant middleweight the UFC ever had.
> 
> 
> Win Tito Ortiz Submission (Strikes) UFC 22-There Can Be Only One Champion 9/24/1999 4 4:42
> Win John Lober Submission (Strikes) UFC Brazil-Ultimate Brazil 10/16/1998 1 7:40
> Win Jeremy Horn Submission (Kneebar) UFC 17-Redemption 5/15/1998 1 16:28
> Win Igor Zinoviev KO (Slam) UFC 16-Battle in the Bayou 3/13/1998 1 0:22
> Win Kevin Jackson Submission (Armbar) UFC Japan-Ultimate Japan 1 12/21/1997 1 0:16
> 
> The records speak for themselves. The wrong Shamrock is in the hall of fame. Ken is a joke to the UFC and is only popular due to his WWF time.
> No knowledgable fan holds Ken's UFC record in any high regard.


Man I just have to say THANK YOU, you have to be the most down to earth guy on this forum, i completely and totally agree.


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## moldy

Can i count Bas rutten i know he only fought twice but he's is amazing.


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## IronMan

USMCgrappler said:


> Thanks for being the bright and shining example of "new to the sport." I recommend you buy the first 30 UFCs and tell me who is the best heavyweight and middleweight.
> 
> Ken Shamrock was the master of not continuing a tournament (either by loss or injury). He also never beat any real fighters.
> 
> Loss Rich Franklin TKO (Strikes) UFC-Ultimate Fighter Finale 4/9/2005 1 2:42
> Win Kimo Leopoldo TKO (Knee) UFC 48-Payback 6/19/2004 1 1:26
> Loss Tito Ortiz TKO (Corner Stoppage) UFC 40-Vendetta 11/22/2002 3 5:00
> Loss Dan Severn Decision UFC 9-Motor City Madness 5/17/1996 1 30:00
> Win Kimo Leopoldo Submission (Kneebar) UFC 8-David vs. Goliath 2/16/1996 1 4:24
> Draw Oleg Taktarov Draw UFC 7-The Brawl in Buffalo 9/8/1995 1 33:00
> Win Dan Severn Submission (Guillotine Choke) UFC 6-Clash of the Titans 7/14/1995 1 2:14
> Draw Royce Gracie Draw UFC 5-The Return of the Beast 4/7/1995 1 36:00
> Win Felix Mitchell Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UFC 3-The American Dream 9/9/1994 1 4:34
> Win Christophe Leninger Submission (Strikes) UFC 3-The American Dream 9/9/1994 1 4:49
> Loss Royce Gracie Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UFC 1-The Beginning 11/12/1993 1 0:57
> Win Patrick Smith Submission (Heel Hook) UFC 1-The Beginning 11/12/1993 1 1:49
> 
> Have you ever seen Frank Shamrock?
> 
> Has he been banned from the UFC or something? He is not on the fighters list. He was the most dominant middleweight the UFC ever had.
> 
> 
> Win Tito Ortiz Submission (Strikes) UFC 22-There Can Be Only One Champion 9/24/1999 4 4:42
> Win John Lober Submission (Strikes) UFC Brazil-Ultimate Brazil 10/16/1998 1 7:40
> Win Jeremy Horn Submission (Kneebar) UFC 17-Redemption 5/15/1998 1 16:28
> Win Igor Zinoviev KO (Slam) UFC 16-Battle in the Bayou 3/13/1998 1 0:22
> Win Kevin Jackson Submission (Armbar) UFC Japan-Ultimate Japan 1 12/21/1997 1 0:16
> 
> The records speak for themselves. The wrong Shamrock is in the hall of fame. Ken is a joke to the UFC and is only popular due to his WWF time.
> No knowledgable fan holds Ken's UFC record in any high regard.


First, you got my attention by saying that Kimo is not a real fighter. He put up more of a fight against Royce that any other fighter in the first four UFCs (except maybe Rob Van Clief)

I completely agree with you about Frank Shamrock. The man is one hell of a fighter.

If we are going to judge on who has done the most for the UFC than the answer is Royce Gracie. If we are going to say who is the most dominant fighter in the UFC than the answer is pretty simple and I suggest looking at three things:

1) has held a UFC championship and defended it in a fight without a decision (good fighters can finish opponents without the judges)

2) has successfully defended his title multiple times

3) has no disputes on his ownership of the title (steriods like Barnett or a disputed decision)

This leads me to one conclusion for active UFC fighters: Chuck Liddell. But Jens Pulver also fits the description, as do a few others. Chuck is by far the most successful.


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## Rush

IronMan said:


> First, you got my attention by saying that Kimo is not a real fighter. He put up more of a fight against Royce that any other fighter in the first four UFCs (except maybe Rob Van Clief)


Kimo is one of those fighters who was very good in his early days but when he returned to the UFC in 2002 or 2003 like Tank and Shamrock, him and those two all weren't as good as they used to be. The only guy Kimo could beat when he got back was Tank. Tank couldn't beat anyone in the UFC when he returned, he lost three matches there. And Shamrock has only beaten Kimo when he returned in 2002 which is pretty sad and people fail to release this. But they were all very talented in their early UFC days and did a lot for this business along with Royce Gracie.


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## alamojj

A DOG said:


> I've been watching ufc since the beginning and I am a big fan like some of u are, here is a good opinion of who the best fighters were and are to this day in the UFC.
> 
> Heavyweight- between Arlovski and Sylvia, we'll find out at UfC 61
> 
> Lightheavyweight- between Chuck and Randy ( although Chuck beat him at the grudgematch, Randy accomplished more in the UFC.) It's a toss up for me.
> 
> Middleweight- I'd have to go with my man Frank Shamrock, undefeated, and he could teach Rick Franklin a lesson or two.
> 
> Welterweight-Although I don't like him that much I have to give my props to Matt Hughes he has proved himself over and over.
> 
> Lightweight- Not a big fan of this division but I think Ives Edwards is up there.



Lightweight- Jens Pulver hands down


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## Rush

alamojj said:


> Lightweight- Jens Pulver hands down


Yeah, for UFC it would be Jens Pulver or Sean Sherk but I think Sean Sherk might stay in the welterweight division.



moldy said:


> rutten has only faught twice but is amazing


He's faught more than twice in the UFC. Back in 1999 he dominated UFC. He is 29-4 I believe and Kimo will be lucky to pass a round with him at WFA lol. I can't wait. Post a live coverage of WFA man because I want to hear Bas beating Kimo up lol.


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## Eminem

> Not really. You said he was a heavyweight when he was in middleweight and light heavyweight fights. Oh well, he might be a heavyweight, I don't know that much about the weight class s---.
> 
> He didn't dominate any class except in his early days. Royce Gracie and Dan Severn were more successful than Ken. And when Ken returned to the UFC he got owned and didn't dominate anyone anytime. Tito Ortiz sent him out of action for another two years, then he came back and was the role of a punching bag during a Rich Franklin fight.
> 
> But he has done a lot for the business. I mean without him the submissions would be crappy. Without him back then in the early days it would have just been knuckle fighting except with Gracie in the ring. He was sort of like Belfort and Abbott. Both were awesome in their early days but when they returned to the octagon it was a whole new game and they were molested in the ring.


No he was a heavy weight back in the day,And at that time he was a great fighter and beat most of the people.

As for Franklin and Tito, ye but ken's time is over.


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## alamojj

Eminem said:


> But ken's time is over.


Thats the best thing you've said ALL night...LOL


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## Rush

alamojj said:


> Thats the best thing you've said ALL night...LOL


What, Ken's time is over. If he loses to Tito he definitely will retire. He is probably dreaming about killing Tito, in the workout room 24/7, planning out at night how he will beat Tito like a mad man, drawing on a piece of paper on his desk then saying "Yes, yes, mwahaha" in a evil voice.


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## alamojj

Rush said:


> What, Ken's time is over. If he loses to Tito he definitely will retire. He is probably dreaming about killing Tito, in the workout room 24/7, planning out at night how he will beat Tito like a mad man, drawing on a piece of paper on his desk then saying "Yes, yes, mwahaha" in a evil voice.


Tito is gonna work over Shamrock the same way he did the first time they fought. Shamrock is a fraud!!!!!:laugh:


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## Rush

alamojj said:


> Tito is gonna work over Shamrock the same way he did the first time they fought. Shamrock is a fraud!!!!!:laugh:


I know. And it will end in decision with Tito as the victor and Ken will be so mad he will cry and go on a rampage and choke Bruce Buffer, then John McCarthy but not Tito because Tito will beat him up even defending himself lol.


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## Kameleon

A DOG said:


> I respect your opinion, but Ken Shamrock is by no means the best fighter, you obviously don't no much about this stuff.


*First of all it is my opinion, just like everybody else posting. You can look at different aspects of any fighter in the UFC and say they are the best in grappling, striking, submissions or their win/loss record. I say Ken Shamrock is the best fighter of all time because he is a damm good fighter but all your looking at is his win/loss record which a different aspect from what I'm looking at. 

And you don't know me, and you don't know what I know about "this stuff". I've seen every UFC PPV and I also have UFC #1-#56 some recorded from the PPV, I also have some of the extra UFC specials like the one on Ken Shamrock, Ultimate Submissions, and Ultimate Knockouts.*


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## CTFlyingKnee

it appears a certain MODERATOR has a picture of the best HW in the world in his signature.....hes just not in UFC


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## IronMan

I don't understand how people can say that Ken Shamrock is the greatest UFC fighter of all time when he has a UFC record of 26-10-2. If you give him the Gracie fight and the draw with severn he's still 28-10. There are guys like Chuck who have records of 18-3-0 and we aren't even talking about them.

Frankly, Ken shouldn't have come back to the UFC after fighting in the WWF. If he had retired, I would consider him one of the greatest fighters in the UFC, but because he doesn't know when to quit he continues to make himself look like an idiot. (He lost to Rich Franklin, who fights at 185, Ken weights 220 pounds without cutting weight)

There are guys like Royce Gracie who's legitimacy we might question, but we know that Ken's not legit anymore.

Best fighter in UFC history, the greatest there ever was: *Royce Gracie*.


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## CTFlyingKnee

yes, Royce is a great fighter, but the greatest UFC of all time? Most certainly not....Yes he has one some of the first UFC tournaments, thats established, but you must keep in mind, he fought in the UFC for one night in 1993, 3 nights in 1994, and one night in 1995....and then came back 11 years later to get pummled by Matt Hughes. Yes, he is 11-2-1 in the UFC, but thats mainly over the course of 2 years. UFC has been around for 12 years, going on 13....hes been around for 2 of them, he is not the best UFC fighter of all time....maybe ONE of the most inspirational, but not the best fighter of all time


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## Punishment 101

Top 5 Greatest fighters in UFC history are

1. Tito Ortiz
2. Matt Hughes
3. Chuck Liddell
4. Randy Couture
5. Jeremy Horn/Rich Franklin


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## Fighter4Life

Heavy Weight: Andrei Arlovski
Light Heavy Weight: Chuck Liddell
Middleweight: Rich Franklin
Welterweight: Matt Hughes
Lightweight: I don't know

So I guess pretty much everyone who has a belt right now except Andrei but I think he'll get it back this saturday


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## UFC Freak

I like Royce Gracie as best ever. I think the new rules hurt his style of fighting though. I remember seeing Gracie take a pounding from guys but they didn't stop the fights as early as they do now. He would always absorb the punishment and come back with a crippling submission.


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## The Don

UFC Freak said:


> I like Royce Gracie as best ever. I think the new rules hurt his style of fighting though. I remember seeing Gracie take a pounding from guys but they didn't stop the fights as early as they do now. He would always absorb the punishment and come back with a crippling submission.


yea I mentioned that about the rules hurting gracie during the Huges fight threads... He has that sit and wiat style.. that the longer time limits allowed him to do..


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