# Shane Carwin recieved animal steroids from dealer according to US Prosecutors



## MatParker116 (Feb 21, 2009)

http://blog.al.com/live/2010/08/pharmacist_in_mobile_ala_stero.html



> According to court records, Applied Pharmacy Services shipped 762,388 dosages to 17 doctors and clinics from April 4, 2004, until Aug. 30, 2006. The U.S. Attorney's Office in Mobile contends that does not include many other doctors and clinics that they say participated in the conspiracy.
> 
> Those performance-enhancing drugs ended up in the hands of users ranging from professional athletes to teenagers looking to build body mass. Prosecutors cited 22 professional athletes who obtained steroids from Applied Pharmacy Services during the time Bennett worked there.
> 
> ...


Shane has yet to fail an AC drug test


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Maybe he owned horses?


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## MatParker116 (Feb 21, 2009)

cdtcpl said:


> Maybe he owned horses?


Not to my knowledge


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

How do they prove that these drugs ended up in certain peoples hands?


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## imrik32 (Dec 31, 2006)

Nefilim777 said:


> How do they prove that these drugs ended up in certain peoples hands?


The doctors who administer it probably kept records of some fashion instead of just handing them some needles and telling them to have fun.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

No matter how you look at this, real or fake - This ain't good news for Shane or the sport... What a shame :/


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

cdtcpl said:


> Maybe he owned horses?


I don't believe he owned any but he is thought to be one of the best stump breakers in the U.S.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Budhisten said:


> No matter how you look at this, real or fake - This ain't good news for Shane or the sport... What a shame :/


Are you insinuating he should be known as "Shame Carwin" from now on? :thumb02:


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

imrik32 said:


> The doctors who administer it probably kept records of some fashion instead of just handing them some needles and telling them to have fun.


Why would a doctor keep a record of an illegal practice?


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Because the drugs he bought were probably registered by some governing agency and he has to keep track of how much he prescribes to clients... He just put an "x" in the "client has prescribtion" box by accident


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

The argument is going to get heated quickly, so I will post only this for _minor_ comedic relief:


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

Budhisten said:


> Because the drugs he bought were probably registered by some governing agency and he has to keep track of how much he prescribes to clients... He just put an "x" in the "client has prescribtion" box by accident


But A. Steroids are illegal for human use, and B. Why would a doctor be prescribing animal steroids to a human?


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Pro bodybuilders on roids, that's about as shocking as finding salt in the ocean. Shane on the other hand, it wouldn't shock me, but we'll see how legit this story turns out.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

Ah missed the animal steroids bit - sorry mate 

But steroids can be prescribed in some countries - don't know if the US is one of them though...


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Nefilim777 said:


> But A. Steroids are illegal for human use, and B. Why would a doctor be prescribing animal steroids to a human?


A doctor wouldn't, unless Shane suffered from severe muscle dystrophy, in which case, he'd be fighting Miguel Torres and not Brock Lesnar.

A lot of steroids are animal steroids, made for race horses to be specific. Some for bulls and cows.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Until he fails a test, leave him be


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

1he hasn't failed a drug test yet so I am going to wait before I jump to conclusions


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Until he fails a test, leave him be


LOL. I don`t recall you having this same feeling about Brock.


I assume everyone does steroids, so I can never be upset.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

SJ said:


> The argument is going to get heated quickly, so I will post only this for _minor_ comedic relief:



Minor indeed.


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

Not surprising, Carwin is prettty artificial, puts like 20 supplements in his body for lunch and now I guess steroids for dinner.


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## Dream-On-101 (Jun 4, 2009)

IF it turns out to be true, it wouldnt really suprise me. But i happen to believe that quite alot of the 'elite' athletes in all sports, not just MMA, are juicing. Not everyone by any means, but probably more than alot of people think. 

On the point being brought up about why a person would use 'animal steroids' this is a fairly common practice. As another member stated, steroids derived from numerous animals including horses, bulls and even sheep are used frequently on the professional Bodybuilding scene and (potentially) in other sports. Veterinary grade steroids are cheaper to produce and to purchase i believe.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

But how does this explain his terrible condition?  Isn't that supposed to help him?

Or was it just for strenght?


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> But how does this explain his terrible condition?  Isn't that supposed to help him?
> 
> Or was it just for strenght?


It'd only help him train his cardio, it wouldn't just increase his conditioning magically like EPO.


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## IllegalLegKick (Apr 13, 2010)

BobbyCooper said:


> But how does this explain his terrible condition?  Isn't that supposed to help him?
> 
> Or was it just for strenght?


I don't know much about steroids but I would think using something mean't for a horse would be pretty detrimental to your health....


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

TLC said:


> It'd only help him train his cardio, it wouldn't just increase his conditioning magically like EPO.


Oh alright! I think Carwin should more focus on EPO then Steroids then^^



IllegalLegKick said:


> I don't know much about steroids but I would think using something mean't for a horse would be pretty detrimental to your health....


I thinks all of this stuff is bad for your health. But things like EPO help your conditioning. I think they do something with the blood cells.. but I really don't know how that exactly works. Steroids I really don't know anything about. Just that you can get muscles faster.


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## Thunder1 (Aug 16, 2008)

Who cares. He hasn't failed a drug test in mma it doesn't matter. The Governer of California is a self confesed former roid addict.


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## capsal (Jul 12, 2009)

its funny how you go read some of the comments on you tube body building videos and people are questioning whether they are on steroids or not!! ofcourse they are on a coktail of steroids growth hormones, insulin growth factor and others.
If UFC wants to have legitimacy when it comes to being a clean sport they need to implement random drug testing all year round like they do in the olympics. Otherwise people do steroids until a few weeks to few days before the fight depending on which steroid they are on. Clearing time for testosterone ranges from 18 days to few days


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## Rockstar189 (Dec 14, 2006)

How often do they get drug tested anyways?


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## CaliKid925 (Mar 21, 2009)

It wouldnt surprise me if he used to do steroids, but i dont think he is using them right now. He has been getting softer and softer every fight. Look up pictures from before he was in the UFC and he looked like he was on steroids, kind of like Brock in the WWE


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

Steroids use is easily tested with urine samples, spot urine - as opposed to plasma. All these artificial steroids have abnormal metabolites, even high keto-steroid levels should be a red flag. 

They seriously need to have a pee collectors with a lab kit go around the country. All you need is some spot urine. If he, or other guys like Brock, Vitor or Leben are still using this $hit - frick them. Hope they use enough to get what's coming to them. I don't know what the standards are now, but they need to get UFC fighter pee year round.


You can't really test for HGH or IGF unless do a profile of a user because HGH>IGF levels fluctuate with your day/night cycle - porbably over a period of time and a profile, there's some method. And HGH>IGF release can be naturally increased multiple-fold by intense short workout sessions. There's physical signs of long-term abuse like abnormally large organs. And nicer hair and skin I guess. I don't know what the gold standard is, but i'm sure involves a lot of blood testing at intervals.


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## Abrissbirne (Jul 4, 2010)

Now that is suprising :thumb02:
Do they even test them for animal steroids? Its very common to use steroids which were ment for bulls or horses.
He wont be the only one in fact every one of his shape will have taken something before so he doesnt have an advantage anyway.
These tests are so useless, there will allyways be something which they wont find so why have them at all...


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

Abrissbirne said:


> Now that is suprising :thumb02:
> Do they even test them for animal steroids? Its very common to use steroids which were ment for bulls or horses.
> He wont be the only one in fact every one of his shape will have taken something before so he doesnt have an advantage anyway.
> These tests are so useless, there will allyways be something which they wont find so why have them at all...


Give me some piss, some reagents, some test tubes, a centrifuge and a spectrophotometer - i'll tell you in about 15 minutes if someone is on roids.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

like many athletes he probably just switched to peptides and other PED that ar hard to trace and dont do the classic steroids anymore. Or he cycles them in a smart way. Im not surprized and like ive stated in previous threads regarding peds i think many many more in the ufc uses them than we know of.
But as long as hes passing the tests it shouldnt really matter. But hell i doubt he has a physique & strength like that "naturally". Nothing personal against Shane at all tho, like i said i believe most pro athletes use some kind of ped. But some are more suspicious than others.

Edit: also this "animal steroid" thing is kinda BS cause most of the steroids used for animals are the same as the "human version". And testing for either would bust both.
many steroids that bodybuilders use are originally made for animals and the just re-branded for humans. since most or atleast much of the stuff is made by underground pharmacies, they are sold as bodybuilding steroids but are often the same chemical as a normal phamacy would sell as an animal steroid. So its really no difference in using them. like Parabolan (trenbolone) was originally made for cattle and such but is now produced under many different brands for human bodybuilding purpose etc.
also steroids can and are perscribed legally in most countries. But not as enhancers ofcourse. Tho i think alot of doctors do this, as many bodybuilders get their stuff perscribed by their doc as if they need it for some medical condition. But instead use them in sports and such. I guess its hard to prove that they dont actually medically need them when a doctor say they do. But if a doctor is suspected and eventually busted for perscribing it wrong i guess his clients are in trouble as well.


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## capsal (Jul 12, 2009)

Rockstar189 said:


> How often do they get drug tested anyways?


they get tested right before the fight , all they have to do is stop using it 2 weeks before the fight and the system is flushed


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

mmaswe82 said:


> like many athletes he probably just switched to peptides and other PED that ar hard to trace and dont do the classic steroids anymore. Or he cycles them in a smart way. Im not surprized and like ive stated in previous threads regarding peds i think many many more in the ufc uses them than we know of.
> But as long as hes passing the tests it shouldnt really matter. But hell i doubt he has a physique & strength like that "naturally". Nothing personal against Shane at all tho, like i said i believe most pro athletes use some kind of ped. But some are more suspicious than others.


Steroids are big hydrophobic molecules that get broken down in to keto-steroids, they'll survive your digestive tract and get absorbed throughout your G.I. system and mess up digestive system up especially with excessive use (cough like another HW). 

The small peptides like HGH, HGRH and IGF have to be injected directly into your blood stream (hydrophillic hormonnes), the digestive system will destroy them if you try to take them orally. 

Basically this is how it works HGRH gets released from hypothalymus to pituitary gland, pituaitary generates and releases HGH into the bloodstream with chemokines directed to go to the liver, HGH signals the liver to pack-up and produce IGF-1. IGF-1 is the active metabolite that then circulates in the blood stream with virtually every cell in the human body having receptors for it, signaling the cells to multiply, new muscle fibers, bigger organs, more hair, better wound healing and recovery, better brain function. On the flip-side there's a negative-feedback loop, so once you start you have all this IGF-1 circulating, you have to keep doing it because your body feels the unnatural growth and your hypothalymus and pituitary get down regulated to produce lesser and lesser HGH and HGRH.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Who cares like 90% of pro athletes do whatever they think they can get away with legal or not.


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

I am so sick of this Fecking subject.

I simply don't care if they use them. I have heard this debate now for 25 years and there is NO right answer. 

My opinion is once you're 21 the Government should stay out of a persons private matters. This falls under that opinion.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Shane is 6'1" and 285 lbs. ripped. You don't get that kind of a physique doing push ups and eating wheaties.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Obviously many fighters take roids (surprise, surprise).
We just had an fighter asking for forgiveness at this last UFC cause he said that at least 50% of MMA fighters are on the juice. Telling the truth hurts, im sure he took it hard in the backstage...


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

MrObjective said:


> Steroids are big hydrophobic molecules that get broken down in to keto-steroids, they'll survive your digestive tract and get absorbed throughout your G.I. system and mess up digestive system up especially with excessive use (cough like another HW).
> 
> The small peptides like HGH, HGRH and IGF have to be injected directly into your blood stream (hydrophillic hormonnes), the digestive system will destroy them if you try to take them orally.
> 
> Basically this is how it works HGRH gets released from hypothalymus to pituitary gland, pituaitary generates and releases HGH into the bloodstream with chemokines directed to go to the liver, HGH signals the liver to pack-up and produce IGF-1. IGF-1 is the active metabolite that then circulates in the blood stream with virtually every cell in the human body having receptors for it, signaling the cells to multiply, new muscle fibers, bigger organs, more hair, better wound healing and recovery, better brain function. On the flip-side there's a negative-feedback loop, so once you start you have all this IGF-1 circulating, you have to keep doing it because your body feels the unnatural growth and your hypothalymus and pituitary get down regulated to produce lesser and lesser HGH and HGRH.


yes nice breakdown indeed  but directly into the bloodstream? not that i know of. Normally its injected into a muscle or fat tissue. many steroids are also injected. But i guess what ur trying to say is that there are actually oral steroids and with peptides they are all injects? dont really see how this is relating to the thread, but still good knowledge for all the people who dont know how it works. Also i din't know that the body works like that with hgh and igf and such that the body produces less after miss-use. i Know androgens work that way tho. I always heard /thought that was the thing with growth hormones that it actually didnt close down the bodys natural production, i could def. Be wrong tho.


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

oh no. i really hope this is not true. i know guys use these things in sports and ive seen it in lower level competition so i can only imagine the demand to use it at the higher level sports. shane carwin is a guy i suspected of using stuff but the fact that he was a smart guy left me hoping he at least tried to go the route of being clean.

might be more to this(at least i hope so) than what prosecutors might say.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

I just so happen to think a LOT of professional athletes (especially in the ufc) juice. I like Carwin, and I really hope it's not true. But it wouldn't suprise me if it was.

I have a few friends who are pro body builders. Unless you are doing olympic style testing, it's very easy to cycle steroids so it's out of the system come test time. From what I hear at least.

My steroid test: Look at a person and ask "Are people typically built that way?"

Yeah it's flawed, but surprisingly accurate.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

If Carwin did steroids, could that explain why he tired so quickly against Lesnar?

Mariusz Pudzianowski, likewise.

Steroids = kill endurance?


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I wonder if this is going to have an effect on his contract or anything like that!


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

On a side note.

I'm probably totally wrong about this, but is there another source other than a blog? I googled this dr's name and the only articles I find link to that blog. Wouldn't there be some sort of credible news sites reporting this as well?


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I just so happen to think a LOT of professional athletes (especially in the ufc) juice. I like Carwin, and I really hope it's not true. But it wouldn't suprise me if it was.
> 
> I have a few friends who are pro body builders. Unless you are doing olympic style testing, it's very easy to cycle steroids so it's out of the system come test time. From what I hear at least.
> 
> ...


almost 100% accurate about half the time 

been looking for more but seeing as how this might be part of some case might have to wait for any credible news to come out.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah this source could be questionable!:thumbsdown:


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> On a side note.
> 
> I'm probably totally wrong about this, but is there another source other than a blog? I googled this dr's name and the only articles I find link to that blog. Wouldn't there be some sort of credible news sites reporting this as well?


The blog also fails to point out how the prosecutor 'knew' exactly who the people taking steroids were. I can't see why anyone carrying out a felonious practice would keep records of doing so.


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

Trix said:


> If Carwin did steroids, could that explain why he tired so quickly against Lesnar?
> 
> Mariusz Pudzianowski, likewise.
> 
> Steroids = kill endurance?


No no no.

Carwin was too excited and when he had Brock down he didn't keep calm and pick his shots, but rather he punched until his muscles were depleted of oxygen. There is no way to replenish that in one min. He had a adrenaline dump and used his energy up in the first round. Sitting probably made him understand just how depleted his muscles were thus adding more bad news.

I doubt he will ever do that again. He's a smart guy and he now knows how he messed up. Poor guy was so used to 1 round fights it all added up a 2nd round loss.


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

> The name of former UFC interim heavyweight champion Shane Carwin appeared on a list of 22 professional athletes federal prosecutors allege obtained steroids from a Mobile, Ala.-based pharmacy between 2004-06, according to an internet report published on Friday by the Mobile Press-Register newspaper.
> 
> Carwin was among seven athletes – including pro wrestlers Kurt Angle and “Hardcore” Bob Holly as well as four professional bodybuilders – named by Assistant U.S. Attorney Donna Dobbins at the sentencing of Alabama pharmacist J. Michael Bennett. Bennett, one of five men recently found guilty of "participating in a nationwide conspiracy to illegally sell anabolic steroids," was sentenced to four years in prison, according to the report.
> 
> ...


http://www.cagepotato.com/carwin-named-federal-steroids-case-newspaper-report-says
what i found-that sucks, i also thought of angle back in the day as a warrior.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Trix said:


> If Carwin did steroids, could that explain why he tired so quickly against Lesnar?
> 
> Mariusz Pudzianowski, likewise.
> 
> Steroids = kill endurance?


No not really. Some steroids, such as bulking agents are designed for body building and power lifting, but are not exactly ideal for performance. But there are plenty of other steroids, such as primobolan, than will give you tons of energy and make you perform much closer to your peak than you could normally. Plus something like Testosterone greatly increases everything about being a man. You'll hit harder, move faster, etc. Anyone on the right juice has an extreme advantage.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well if he were taking the performance steroids why would he punch himself out then?


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

kantowrestler said:


> Well if he were taking the performance steroids why would he punch himself out then?


Because he was clean.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Thelegend said:


> http://www.cagepotato.com/carwin-named-federal-steroids-case-newspaper-report-says
> what i found-that sucks, i also thought of angle back in the day as a warrior.


Again, this is pointing to a blog as a source.

I'm not saying it's inaccurate. I would just like to sea credible source.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah if there were two different sources then we could say this might be true but blogs haven't been the most accurate sourse in the past!:thumbsdown:


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## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

The UFC doesn't care about this. They are happy as long as their fighter's pass the Athletic Commission's tests.

If the UFC really cared, they'd institute serious random testing. There's no fighter's union to stand in their way, although they'd probably have to institute over time as fighters sign new contracts.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah I think Dana is just happy if they test negative!


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

This is almost a given that he used steroids at one point or another, Just look at what has been happening in the MLB with all these names coming out and then players forced to come clean about their past.

Does that mean that Shane is somehow avoiding testing positive in the UFC? no, Doesnt mean he is using them currently. Just that he got them at one point or another in the past.

bad news for shane and the UFC.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well like someone asked earlier did he have a horse?


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## JMAT (May 15, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> Well like someone asked earlier did he have a horse?


Horse my dick. Look what he bought...










Tren, test, and winstrol depot. Thats a basic cycle right there everyone in bodybuilding has ran. No doubt in my mind where these steroids were going..


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

That could easily be a copy of excel that someone doctored!:thumbsdown:


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Budhisten said:


> No matter how you look at this, real or fake - This ain't good news for Shane or the sport... What a shame :/


it won't hurt the sport one bit.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Until he fails a test, leave him be


I'm just waiting for funny pics to surface on the internet. He woun't just be able to forget this, haters will have now something hate on.


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## kgilstrap (Dec 3, 2006)

> "Erroneous, erroneuos on both accounts!" -wedding crashers


Shane is very against taking any types of drugs, and I'd be very surprised if this had any truth to it at all.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

kgilstrap said:


> Shane is very against taking any types of drugs, and I'd be very surprised if this had any truth to it at all.


Why? because he is nice. shane mosley is one of the nicest and most humble people in boxing and he got caught twice or it might of been three times?. 

lance armstrong is a nice dude and used to do charity when he was with cheryl crowe I'm not mistaken and he was on the roids.

Vitor is very humble and respectful but he was on the roids.

If this was brock lesnar, everyone would be calling for his head.


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## Can.Opener (Apr 8, 2009)

Some pretty naive comments in here.

All sports from the the olympics to fighting, from cyclists to bodybuilders... performance enhancing drugs are rife among athletes and mixed martial arts is no different.

Shane did not purchase these items for his secret paddock.

Time to change dealers.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Can.Opener said:


> Some pretty naive comments in here.
> 
> All sports from the the olympics to fighting, from cyclists to bodybuilders... performance enhancing drugs are rife among athletes and mixed martial arts is no different.
> 
> ...


This. most MMA fans are either insecure about this sport and think that fighters getting caught with steroids and getting into post fight brawls will hurt the sport or they put MMA up on a pedestal an think that this is the most perfect and pure sport in the world that is/should be immune to anything unethical or disrespectful.


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## kgilstrap (Dec 3, 2006)

guy incognito said:


> Why? because he is nice. shane mosley is one of the nicest and most humble people in boxing and he got caught twice or it might of been three times?.
> 
> lance armstrong is a nice dude and used to do charity when he was with cheryl crowe I'm not mistaken and he was on the roids.
> 
> ...


No, because Shane has openly spoken about drugs and stated he has never done a drug in his life. If he's lying then the evidence will prove in time, but as of now its speculation.


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## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

kgilstrap said:


> Shane is very against taking any types of drugs, and I'd be very surprised if this had any truth to it at all.


How often do you find out a Doctor lied about who he prescribed steroids to?

How many times have athletes denied using steroids only to later admit they took them?

Doctors have nothing to gain by lying about who they sold/administered steroids to. They reveal actual names in order to get a more lenient sentence from the feds.

In the end I don't care though. Until athletic commissions and the UFC take it seriously, they are begging fighters to smartly cycle their drugs.


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## andromeda_68 (Jul 2, 2009)

....wow. that's really too bad. 




Nefilim777 said:


> Why would a doctor keep a record of an illegal practice?


a legitimate doctor would not. a legitimate pharmacy has to. 

many people are able to obtain prescriptions for drugs that they would normally never be prescribed (by most doctors in clinics or private practice). all you have to do is be willing to get on the internet, talk to a doctor online that may or may not be from the US but has a traceable DEA or prescriber number for when the pharmacy does their validation, and a prayer that you don't get caught.

many hormones and steroids are not legal for pharmacies to carry or make unless they get approval from the DEA and FDA to do so, and they need to have a good reason even then. however, animal hormones and steroids are less loosely guarded because in general animals don't have the same legal rights (including rights to safety) that humans do. 

pharmacies that carry certain types of steroids and narcotics get audited for records every few years, or sometimes every few months if business is crackin enough. or the DEA gets suspicious. to cover their own asses from liabilities, they HAVE TO be able to account for every patient, every doctor, and every DEA number on file. 

sounds like this is an online pharmacy. i looked up their stats -- they ONLY have *19 employees* but rake in somewhere between $1m-2.5m a year (!!!). that's insane profit that generally isn't even possible unless you're shipping worldwide via online Rx. shane carwin just got unlucky during an audit would be my guess. i'm also willing to bet that they're not going to be able to validate a physical exam that resulted in such an Rx (meaning i think he obtained it online with no exam).


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

I question the legitimacy for the fact they're calling Shane Carwin the UFC HW champion.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

UrbanBounca said:


> I question the legitimacy for the fact they're calling Shane Carwin the UFC HW champion.


It is simply stating that he was a UFC champion at one point in his career, and he was, wasnt he? or did you forget already...

Interim Champion is still a champion.


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## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

It doesn't seem like they could do much to him because of this though. He hasn't tested dirty for these substances, and it seems like he could say he used them for his animals or something. Is possessing steroids for animals illegal?


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...The way Shane handled Lesnar I guess he is an animal!!!LOL! On MMAweekly it didn't say anything about a suspension or any action taken from the athletic commission. Just have to see where this leads to...:confused02:


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> That could easily be a copy of excel that someone doctored!:thumbsdown:


probably isnt though. I read about it on a different site and they named all the exact same drugs. http://mmajunkie.com/news/20283/fed...shane-carwin-to-steroid-distribution-ring.mma



kgilstrap said:


> Shane is very against taking any types of drugs, and I'd be very surprised if this had any truth to it at all.





kgilstrap said:


> No, because Shane has openly spoken about drugs and stated he has never done a drug in his life. If he's lying then the evidence will prove in time, but as of now its speculation.


Ya I am against taking drugs to and have never done any in my life either, see its easy to lie.

anyone can say that doesnt make it true, No proffesional athletes on the juice are going to try and draw suspicion towards them. I would lie to, who wouldnt?


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Dont expect any quick decisions to be made with Carwin possibly coming clean or anything like that. Just look how long its taken the MLB to have players come forward after a list of names came out.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

imrik32 said:


> The doctors who administer it probably kept records of some fashion instead of just handing them some needles and telling them to have fun.


Even if they did, seeing as it's illegal I find it hard to believe, it's highly illegal for them to disclose those records. They could lose their medical licenses and everything./...


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah this whole thing just sounds fishy!:thumbsdown:


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

mmaswe82 said:


> yes nice breakdown indeed  but directly into the bloodstream? not that i know of. Normally its injected into a muscle or fat tissue. many steroids are also injected. But i guess what ur trying to say is that there are actually oral steroids and with peptides they are all injects? dont really see how this is relating to the thread, but still good knowledge for all the people who dont know how it works. Also i din't know that the body works like that with hgh and igf and such that the body produces less after miss-use. i Know androgens work that way tho. I always heard /thought that was the thing with growth hormones that it actually didnt close down the bodys natural production, i could def. Be wrong tho.


Injecting steroids is a lot better for the digestive tract. But intramuscular and subcutaneous (it's not really in to fat tissue, but fat tissue does have a thick layer of subcutaneous tissue for injection sites) - injections are basically getting the molecules in to your blood stream. It's not adipose they are injecting into, it's just the convenient areas, where skin can be folded and you can use a insulin syrine.

These methods ofcourse slightly have less bioavailibility = float freely in the blood stream and have open receptors on target cells, but the difference isn't very much, than injecting directing to your veins, if they wanted to get the most bang for their buck they can get do an intravenous injection and probably have scars like heroin users.

Put it this way

IV = 100% bioavailability (Rapid Distribution/painful/repeated use can be visible) 

Subcutaneous = 95-99% bioavailability (slightly slower distribution/almost no pain/not very spot specific) - i.e. Insulin Needles

Intramuscular = 95-99% bioavailability (slowest distribution/can be very painful/can be very spot specific) i.e. MMR Vaccine shot, but these come in all kinds of scary length needles.

And the only injection of the three non-steroidal hormones mentioned would be direct injection IGF-1 to the muscle or muscle group of choice. Injecting HGH into a bicep or or stomach over and over, in to on spot isn't going have any special effect on that one spot. HGH does nothing except signal IGF-1 production which circulates throughout the body and performs it's actions in the feedback loop to the pituitary and hypothalymus in the circulation.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

I had a chat with my old man about it, both my parents work in Pharmaceuticals, and he was saying that many normal pharmacies in areas with large amounts of livestock, horses, etc will carry animal products as well as products for human. More then likely these pharmacists were looking to make an easy few dollars by selling it on, however its unlikely they would have kept records of this, because, as I pointed out earlier, its just plain illegal. This means that more then likely the prosecutor forced the chemist, or someone involved, to reveal the identities of the customers in exchange for a lesser sentence, which means, we have a rat. I'd imagine that unless they had actual proof though, Carwin could maintain that he was wrongly fingered in the whole thing and probably get away with it, that is of course unless they don't have accurate evidence.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

MrObjective said:


> Injecting steroids is a lot better for the digestive tract. But intramuscular and subcutaneous (it's not really in to fat tissue, but fat tissue does have a thick layer of subcutaneous tissue for injection sites) - injections are basically getting the molecules in to your blood stream. It's not adipose they are injecting into, it's just the convenient areas, where skin can be folded and you can use a insulin syrine.
> 
> These methods ofcourse slightly have less bioavailibility = float freely in the blood stream and have open receptors on target cells, but the difference isn't very much, than injecting directing to your veins, if they wanted to get the most bang for their buck they can get do an intravenous injection and probably have scars like heroin users.
> 
> ...


exactly, now were making sence. This is exactly what ive learned as well. Not that we are at all relevant to the thread lol but i find it interesting anyway. We should make a seperate PED-info thread . You seem to have quite a bit of knowledge about hormones.
Regarding the injections you are correct, except im pretty sure you could not inject oil-based steroids directly into your vain...or atleast should not as it can be dangerous.
But yes i understand that you meant Subcutaneous or Intramuscular, just wanted to clear up that you wernt talking about intravenous injections as i have never heard of that being done with peds of any kind. because its not handy and also can be very dangerous.
Regarding HGH/IGF you are correct, HGH only stimulates IGF and can be injected anywhere but IGF would be injected in the desired area. Good knowledge m8, but lets not mess up this thread. I would however love to continue talking about these things in another thread as they facinate me.


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## andromeda_68 (Jul 2, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> Even if they did, seeing as it's illegal I find it hard to believe, it's highly illegal for them to disclose those records. They could lose their medical licenses and everything./...


pharmacies have no choice in a controlled substance audit. their drugs HAVE to be accounted for.

not only that, but hipaa compliance is a joke. it's there to make people feel secure and fuzzy about their medical histories remaining private, but if the average person had any idea who has access to what, when, to people who don't need to know, and how often, they'd flip out.

as far as possessing animal drugs...if there's no animal, it's prescription fraud, which is a felony.


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## leviticus (May 27, 2007)

JMAT said:


> Horse my dick. Look what he bought...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If we take this non-sourced spread sheet with the initials "SC" as authentic...All it proves is that Carwin purchased a bunch of steroids when he fought for the Extreme Wars and UTS promotions. 2 years before he fought in the UFC.:sarcastic12:


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

Nefilim777 said:


> But A. Steroids are illegal for human use, and B. Why would a doctor be prescribing animal steroids to a human?


from i what ive heard isnt steroids used for people with certain health problems etc. am pretty sure there is a medical use for them. Obvisouly Animal steroids is another subject though.



leviticus said:


> If we take this non-sourced spread sheet with the initials "SC" as authentic...All it proves is that Carwin purchased a bunch of steroids when he fought for the Extreme Wars and UTS promotions. 2 years before he fought in the UFC.:sarcastic12:


that doesn't make any difference, steroids dont just necessarily wear off over time you know, they enlarge certain organs of your body like your heart permanently, and that helps pump blood round your body faster meaning you can train for longer or harder.


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## Majortom505 (Jun 23, 2009)

*"from i what ive heard isnt steroids used for people with certain health problems etc. am pretty sure there is a medical use for them. Obvisouly Animal steroids is another subject though."*

Yes in fact Hydrocortisone cream is a steroid. Most have heard of an injured athlete receiving cortisone injections to speed up recovery for an injury.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

> . "from i what ive heard isnt steroids used for people with certain health problems etc. am pretty sure there is a medical use for them. Obvisouly Animal steroids is another subject though."


Yes steroids are used for medical reasons as the cause rapid healing. I had to take them back when I had cancer.

Athleats use them so after a workout their mussels heal faster and bigger. For instance it is only healthy to lift weights ever other day so you can let your muscles heal. However someone who takes steroids can lift 3 of 4 times a day because the steroids help them heal faster and grow bigger musscles.


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## andromeda_68 (Jul 2, 2009)

^ damn, i'm sorry to hear you had cancer. i'm glad you're better. 



steroids *do* have a lot of uses and aren't by default the muscle-building anabolic kind everything thinks of. like treating infections like URIs, skin diseases and fungi, fixing estrogen and testosterone levels, healing injuries, acne, countering allergic reactions...but using those kinds of steroids is a lot different than taking animal meds lol


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah steroids actually do have a medical use!


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Still waiting on a confirmed source...


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

andromeda_68 said:


> ^ damn, i'm sorry to hear you had cancer. i'm glad you're better. l


It's all good. Hard times but I learned allot and I feel like I am a better man now than I would have been without it. In a way it was good to go through it and get a new perspective on life.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah what type of cancer did you have?


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> Yeah what type of cancer did you have?


Brain. Malignant Tumor right side.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Oh dear! Glad to hear its going to be alright!


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> Oh dear! Glad to hear its going to be alright!


It's done man cancer free for almost a decade.diagnosed at 8 declared cancer free at 12 now 21. Been a great life. :thumb02: just got to put things in perspective.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Wow, talk about miracle work!raise01:


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> It's done man cancer free for almost a decade.diagnosed at 8 declared cancer free at 12 now 21. Been a great life. :thumb02: just got to put things in perspective.


You're a warrior, well done.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

ive seen a few guys with steroids at different gyms. who were the same guys ive "smoked" with. they arent that hard to get, especially if you have the cash. ive seen tren/stanz (sp)/nat-something and hgh. and per like 80 day cycle its only like 180$ per. i dont know much about steroids, but it seems like it would be risky to be on paper with a doctor to get them. 




americanfighter said:


> Brain. Malignant Tumor right side.


glad youre still around :thumbsup:

a buddy of mine had a brain tumor when he was a kid as well, has a huge scar that goes the length from his neck to back of his head.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah you chose to be a survivor rather than a victim!raise01:


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> Wow, talk about miracle work!raise01:


When they say a positive attitude makes things allot better their not BSing. The most rewarding part is when a few people told me that the example i set helped them.

Miracle that we caught it when we did. Think of a sinus headache times 10 that's what it felt like before the surgery.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

So you felt some definate pressure relief!:thumbsup:


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

xeberus said:


> ive seen a few guys with steroids at different gyms. who were the same guys ive "smoked" with. they arent that hard to get, especially if you have the cash. ive seen tren/stanz (sp)/nat-something and hgh. and per like 80 day cycle its only like 180$ per. i dont know much about steroids, but it seems like it would be risky to be on paper with a doctor to get them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I have one that starts right above the ear hole then hooks around behind the top of my ear. 40 stitches. 



Thanks for the praise everyone


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> So you felt some definate pressure relief!:thumbsup:


You could say that


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well thats good, I'm surprised one of the moderators hasn't pointed out that we are off subject!:thumbsdown:


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## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

How tough is Brock Lesnar ? 

Fights a roided up KO monster after a year absence because of life saving surgery and recovers from an early KD to win the fight. 

Brock Lesnar is a fan favourite in my eyes now.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> Well thats good, I'm surprised one of the moderators hasn't pointed out that we are off subject!:thumbsdown:


True lol oh well still a good discussion. 

thanks for your concern. Other than a few pills and an annual MRI nothing cancer related to be worried about. Just a regular guy now living a good life.:thumbsup:


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Hellboy said:


> How tough is Brock Lesnar ?
> 
> Fights a roided up KO monster after a year absence because of life saving surgery and recovers from an early KD to win the fight.
> 
> Brock Lesnar is a fan favourite in my eyes now.


Just because he bought steroids back in 2006 doesn't mean he is using them now. Since he didn't fail the drug test he is ok IMO. Just like Brock we know he roidded up in the past but doesn't mean he is doing it now and as long as he passes the drug test he is ok by me.


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## DrJekyll540 (Aug 11, 2010)

Who cares if he did or not. I'm just here to see him knock the f*** out of everyone hahahaha


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## MetalMunkey (Oct 14, 2006)

I thinks it's naive to think that most of these athletes aren't on something, especially at this level. There's too much money involved.


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

I was surprised to hear this and a tad disappointed. I'm all for frequent drug testing for these fighters throughout the year (even when they're not fighting) to make sure everyone stays clean.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

> Every so often, the dormant conversation about the silent-partner role of steroids in mixed martial arts gets a nice kick in the rear -- though now the intervals seem to be getting longer. Is it due to more athletes being dissuaded from using, or simply getting better about finding efficient ways to not get caught? You have to wonder.
> 
> The industry hasn’t had a scapegoat since Josh Barnett’s positive test in summer 2009, but the draught is over: Shane Carwin has been named one of the supplied clients of J. Michael Bennett, an Alabama pharmacist who just got sentenced to four years for his participation in a conspiracy to sell anabolic steroids. Carwin allegedly received the stuff sometime in 2006, which would pre-date his entry into the UFC. That his possible use being in the past tense makes this a negligible issue for some is beyond my comprehension.
> 
> ...


http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/Carwin-Under-Fire-26341

Might as well post this article here as well, hadn't seen it up until now.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well for now he obviously hasn't said anything yet!


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Rauno™ said:


> http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/Carwin-Under-Fire-26341
> 
> Might as well post this article here as well, hadn't seen it up until now.


That article STILL links to a blog. Does anyone else see a problem with that?


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> That article STILL links to a blog. Does anyone else see a problem with that?


he hasn't come out and said anything 
yet so it is obviously legit.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

guy incognito said:


> he hasn't come out and said anything
> yet so it is obviously legit.


Or he doesn't want to address it because it's too absurd. Him not putting a statement out doesn't mean anything.

I'm not saying it's not true. I'm just saying I would love to see a credible news report... or even anything about the arrest / trial of the Dr. I googled his name and only get links to that blog or biography type stuff about him. Wouldn't there be some local newspaper story or anything like that?


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well it appeared on Yahoo Sports so it might have some credibility!


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

kantowrestler said:


> Well it appeared on Yahoo Sports so it might have some credibility!


Yeah, I've seen it appear on some general news sources, completely unrelated to MMA. Of course, reporting something doesn't make something valid, it just makes it news, but I'm not officially saying yay or nay to the whole thing, though I wouldn't be shocked.


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## Tenacious Cole (Aug 6, 2010)

The thing is that the general news sites like Yahoo and others Quote the prosecutor/DA and not thwe blog. SO the article does have credibility now.

As far as Carwin using- I'm going with no unless it's proven or depending on what says if he decides to make a statement.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah we should treat him innocent until proven guilty!


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## lvkyle (Sep 7, 2008)

You know, I'm no fitness dummy. There is Athleticism, Genetics, and some naturally big strong athletes out there.

Not every athlete needs to juice, and since the whole MLB thing I bet fewer athletes juice now, or at the least cycle it in a way that its untraceable.

Fact is sport is sport. Don't cry if you get beat by the other team/guy. Yeah a few guys can hit a shit load more home runs right now, big surprise juicing the right way probably enhances most guys athleticism.
Add all the * you want to the record book. Juicing has been a big part of sport and will continue to be in the years to come.

It's your body, and IMO its no one's business to see what supplements you are taking. But if you agree to their testing for a paycheck then that's your choice. 

If you fear some one else or some other team is juicing, either be a man and face them and try to beat them or go cry foul.

Carwin is a good guy. Very humble before / after the fight. I'M a big fan of his and I believe he will bounce back with some great fights and knockouts in the future.

He is innocent until proven guilty. And even if it is true, who cares he was going up against Brock Lesnar, a man who was found in possession with a ton of HGH in his past, and he comes from professional wrestling and the NFL, lol. Come on now, I would suspect brock to be juicing or def juiced a lot in the past and would guess he would have a serious strength and size advantage because of it. Some guys choose to even the playing field, while others in sport simply choose to beat the guy or team that juiced anyway.

This is MMA, not MLB or the NFL. It's one on one in the cage, and if you don't want to have to fight guys who have been juicing, then you need to find a new sport.

Hell look what Anderson Silva did to Chris Lebon who tested positive. I'm a big fan of lebon also btw.

Some guys juice get over it. Perhaps one day we will invent some magic invention that is 100% accurate to see if people juice or not, and then we will live in a perfect world where everyone is on a even playing field.

As of now we are human beings, and as such look for every possible advantage we can to win and compete.

If a fighter gets caught not playing fair then punish them for 6 mons or what ever, apologize to the fans and kids, and let them get back in there and fight.

Oh im also a big Shawne Merriman fan


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

Can.Opener said:


> Some pretty naive comments in here.
> 
> All sports from the the olympics to fighting, from cyclists to bodybuilders... performance enhancing drugs are rife among athletes and mixed martial arts is no different.


I've said for a long time that there is enough money and fame on the line that a LOT of people are willing to break the rules to get to the top. And that there are enough otherwise gifted, talented people willing to break the rules that any competitor who doesn't will be at a significant disadvantage.

Now most MMA athletes don't go crazy on them to bulk up like pro bodybuilders. (Hammer House being an obvious exception.) But they do use them to put on some mass, and also to help heal faster after injuries.

Steroids get a lot of press, but in my opinion, EPO is just as prevalent. Perhaps even more so. It's entirely common in every sport that needs any sort of endurance. A lot of guys can't gain any more mass, or they won't make weight... but how many of them could use a 25% or larger cardio boost, especially when it's soooo much harder to test positive for it than it is for steroids?


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## andromeda_68 (Jul 2, 2009)

not that i condone steroids or anything, but tbh this was so long ago that if he really was taking them himself i don't think he should get in trouble for it *now* -- at least career-wise, like forced retirement or action by the UFC. whatever the prosecutor does is whatever the prosecutor is going to do so that's a different story. what happens to him legally over something that happened that long ago shoudln't affect what happens to him professionally IMO. because i'm willing to wager that every single person on this planet has made poor choices or done something moderately dishonest at least once in their past. that doesn't mean that they haven't changed, can't change, or don't deserve a second chance. 

too bad it went down like this. if he's not testing positive before fights it shouldn't affect his career. i guess we'll have to wait for the public fallout to see if it does, at least regarding his reputation or popularity with said public.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

lvkyle said:


> Hell look what Anderson Silva did to Chris Lebon who tested positive. I'm a big fan of lebon also btw.


Leben only tested positive after the Bisping fight, he claimed he was using to help his body recover because of the stress of opening up a new gym and training for a fight at the same time.


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## RudeBoySes (Aug 9, 2010)

i would love to get my hands on some Animal Steroids. A buddy of mine in Florida uses Bovine Steroids, but he refuses to reveal how he converts it into a usable form. anyone know of a good site where you can get legit roids?


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

I read in this months Fighters Only Magazine that in a recent survey with professional atheletes over 80% of them said that they would take performance enhancing drugs to be at the top of their sport for 20 years even if they died ten years after. That's scary.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

That some serious dedication.


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## fullcontact (Sep 16, 2006)

This is not really surprising at all.

Athletes use PED's in every sport nowadays. A fighter that could overpower a former WWE-star of that calibre, is not likely to only be on vegetables.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

Nefilim777 said:


> I read in this months Fighters Only Magazine that in a recent survey with professional atheletes over 80% of them said that they would take performance enhancing drugs to be at the top of their sport for 20 years even if they died ten years after. That's scary.


Sun Tzu once said that if you don't cheat you don't want to win. (not in those words)

I can understand what he means.


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## lvkyle (Sep 7, 2008)

Ok fact is Shane Carwin is a nice guy, and I don't believe he has done anything to harm his rep or achievements in anyway.

If this goes more public and makes more headlines I believe Carwin is innocent until proven guilty, and if proven guilty, he should apologize to the kids, and help explain to them roids are not the way to go.

IMO most athletes juice WAY TO SOON. Most men can pack on natural muscle by eating fish, steak, chicken, oats and veggies well into their 30's. If at this time you aren't big enough, then you are probably mature enough to decide what you want to do to your body and accept the health consequences.

Juice should be legal imo, but you should have to be like 26-30 years old to buy it, and it should be administered and monitored by your doctor the entire time ect.

This would also help kill the black market. I also believe most drugs should be legal like this, but that's another can of worms im not going to get into.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Ok, I don't believe anything should be legal that isn't right now!:thumbsdown:


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

MatParker116 said:


> http://blog.al.com/live/2010/08/pharmacist_in_mobile_ala_stero.html
> 
> 
> Shane has yet to fail an AC drug test


Got news for you non-believers: most of the heavyweights use something like HGH or steroids to bulk up and heal up for fights. I would too if I was in their business.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I don't think Big Country does that or else he would look more like an athlete than an average joe!:thumb02:


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## andromeda_68 (Jul 2, 2009)

ohhh gooodness. big country. not your typical steroid body haha.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah if he is taking steriods then I'm Justin Timberlake!:thumbsdown:


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

kantowrestler said:


> I don't think Big Country does that or else he would look more like an athlete than an average joe!:thumb02:


roids and hgh dont necessarily give you a sculpted body - they just add alot of muscle mass and water weight to whatever your natural physique might be - the rest is diet, training, and genetics. Lots of NFL linemen are juicers and they have big ol guts flopping over their beltline.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I think he would've done better if he was taking roids or hgh!:thumbsdown:


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## Wombatsu (Jul 10, 2006)

say it aint so Mr Carwin .....


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah please say it ain't so!


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