# UFC 193 Rousey vs Holm Weigh Ins



## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Usually during a weigh in, Ronda will weigh in on the scale put her pants and shoes on Diaz bro style. Then do the stare down with her opponent.

This time Ronda weighed in on the scale and immediately got in Holly Holm's face. Holm put her fist near Ronda's head and its tough to tell what happened but there was a small scuffle, Ronda seemed angry and called Holm a fake and said some other things.

Might be some mind games being played. Hope Ronda can get it together so it won't be a factor tomorrow.






Main Card (PPV, 10 PM ET)

Ronda Rousey (134) vs. Holly Holm (134)
Joanna Jedrzejczyk (114) vs. Valerie Letourneau (115)
Mark Hunt (265) vs. Antonio Silva (263)
Uriah Hall (185) vs. Robert Whittaker (185)
Jared Rosholt (265) vs. Stefan Struve (239)

Preliminary Card (FS1, 8 PM ET)

Akbarh Arreola (155) vs. Jake Matthews (155)
Kyle Noke (169) vs. Peter Sobotta (169)
Anthony Perosh (205) vs. Gian Villante (205)
Danny Martinez (125) vs. Richie Vaculik (125)

Preliminary Card (Fight Pass, 6 PM ET)

Daniel Kelly (185) vs. Steve Montgomery (185)
Steve Kennedy (169) vs. Rich Walsh (170)
James Moontasri (170) vs. Anton Zafir (170)
Ryan Benoit (125) vs. Ben Nguyen (126)


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Havent watched it. But man thats why I love Ronda. Turns into a straight killah. 

If she said she was fake she is probably all fired up about her boxing "credentials" and has the opinion of Sonnen and what not.

Ronda gonna KO this one.

Also, nice to see everyone madr weight....and in the land down unda to boot.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Ronda sounded like she wanted to cry there haha.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Ronda has mental problems, which is dangerous given the power she possesses.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Ronda is in savage mode and I love it.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Ronda sounded like she wanted to cry there haha.


Ditto, her voice definitely broke up there like she was so mad she could cry.

If she's that mad at someone as respectful as Holm, I'd love to see a Rousey/Cyborg face off.


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## systemdnb (Dec 7, 2008)

I know they just cut but damn did anyone else think Ronda's face looked more emaciated than normal?


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## HorsepoweR (Jun 1, 2007)

Did Holm say they were having a drink?

They both looked and sounded drunk, but I never seen either of their weigh ins before.


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## BrazIllinois (Oct 18, 2015)

What on earth prompted Ronda to get her panties in a twist? That was a circus.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Ronda says: "This isn't the first time someone thought they had the perfect gameplan to beat me. This isn't the first time someone from your camp (Jackson Wink) thought they had the perfect gameplan to beat me."

What's weird about that is, I don't remember Ronda ever fighting someone who trained out of Jackson-Wink MMA. The only person I remember from that gym fighting at 135 is Julie Kedzie and she retired without ever facing Ronda.

This is just speculation on my part but I wonder if Travis Browne turned out to be some type of spy for Jackson-Wink and that's the reason why Ronda is pissed. Travis Browne trained at Jackson-Wink for a long time before he moved out to train with Glendale Fight Club, maybe he has some conflicting loyalties.

Or maybe Travis Browne training out of the same gym as Holly Holm knows her well enough to say what Holly shows on camera doesn't reflect the type of person she really is. Either way, I would guess Travis Browne might be playing a role. Then again maybe I'm giving Ronda too much credit here and Travis Browne has nothing to do with it, its just some irrational thing that Ronda is blowing out of proportion.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

BrazIllinois said:


> What on earth prompted Ronda to get her panties in a twist? That was a circus.


Half making sure she sells it and no better time to do so then at the weigh in.

Half she just flips a switch. Like Nick Diaz in a way, he could act likemeh whatever but come weigh ins he usually has some sort of chip on his shoulder.

Ronda is a girl though and girls get emotional easily. She doesnt know how to play it off without getting emotional. 

Or it could have been an agreed upon all fot show type thing. Nothing really surprises me anymore.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Half making sure she sells it and no better time to do so then at the weigh in.
> 
> Half she just flips a switch. Like Nick Diaz in a way, he could act likemeh whatever but come weigh ins he usually has some sort of chip on his shoulder.
> 
> ...


This is all the way I see it, although it's not often we see girls get that emotional. I can't tell why Ronda would be emotional here but fk it, why try and understand birds? :laugh:


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Ronda always looks possessed during weigh ins. Kind of scary really.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Rauno said:


> Ronda always looks possessed during weigh ins. Kind of scary really.


Yea, I think that is what the greats do. Cutting weight doesn't help a mood either.

Total change from yesterday. They faced off the day before and shook hands. Same sort of faceoff, Holm had her hand up, maybe not as close but similar. 

I think Ronda's people and her herself understands there has to be a switch flip from media. Weidman had it vs. Vitor. Bones gets all weird and intense. GSP wasn't nuts but seemed ultra focused on weigh in. Penn had that look in his eye. HWs sort of relax though now that I'm thinking about it. haha.....maybe it is pure weight cut emotions. 

But I love that Ronda flips a switch. Too many of these girls don't have "it". Ronda does, Ronda is competitive. Ronda has gained SOOO much fame so quick and beat girls in seconds yet she is still able to stay ultra locked in and ready at all time. 

I admire that. Ronda is no gimmick. Most these girls wouldn't handle the pressure, fame, rank like she does.


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## Glothin (Jun 8, 2010)

Lol @ Rhonda calling her fake. Rhonda is the fake one with that BS.


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## MK. (Dec 16, 2012)

I know its 99% not gonna happen, but i really hope that imbecile gets knocked out.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Half making sure she sells it and no better time to do so then at the weigh in.


The best moment is hours before the fight?



jonnyg4508 said:


> Ronda is a girl though and girls get emotional easily.


If that was the case would we even discussing her behavior? Aside from crazy Bethe Correia against herself, what girls do this kind of stuff?


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Holly Holm shouldn't have pissed her off. Some fighters, actually probably most fighters fight better when they're angry. Some of the most vicious finishes have come about from highly charged fights.

Mirko Crocop vs Wanderlei 2
Wanderlei vs Rampage 1, 2, and 3 when Rampage finally got a KO.
Anderson Silva vs Belfort
Anderson Silva vs Chael Sonnen 2
Chuck vs Tito
Huerta vs Clay Guida (I remember Huerta got hurt then in the next round he was fuming. Great stuff!)
GSP vs Serra 2 (Serra really messed his psyche up, but it made him stronger. The ref should have allowed GSP to knee em a dozen more times smashing his ribs and caving it in giving him internal bleeding.) That remains one of the biggest upsets in the sports history. 
Cain vs Big Foot (Even though he beat em pretty much the same way...the look on his face during the stare downs was pure disgust as in "you don't even belong here. I'm going to smash ur face in so badly."

...and of course Robbie. Not only does he fight better, he gets into this invincible mode. The Immortal experienced it, Hendricks felt it and so did Rory. Condit is another. That is going to be one helluve fight. 

Ronda goes into overdrive when she's pissed. Her fight against Bethe was very different. She looked quite possessed. I think against Holm it's more of a competitive nature.


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## Warnerve (Feb 3, 2008)

systemdnb said:


> I know they just cut but damn did anyone else think Ronda's face looked more emaciated than normal?


yeah i noticed this as well in a few pictures i seen, the video didnt seem as bad but her cheeks were sunken in more than i remember from past weigh ins


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

No_Mercy said:


> Holly Holm shouldn't have pissed her off.


Ronda is a pissed person. Permanently. :thumb02:


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## Andrus (Oct 18, 2011)

That was intense.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> BrazIllinois said:
> 
> 
> > What on earth prompted Ronda to get her panties in a twist? That was a circus.
> ...


You know why IMO? Because Nick Diaz and Ronda Rousey have to build some kind of aggression to be able to hit somebody.
Both fighters wear their heart on their sleeve and are very emotional in an attempt to channel that emotion they hype themselves up, that's what I think anyway.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

BrazIllinois said:


> What on earth prompted Ronda to get her panties in a twist? That was a circus.


$$$$ Ronda is hype machine 2.0, McGregor is 3.0. It will always be personal when those 2 are fighting anyone.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

From the BloodyElbow comments section:


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Maybe Ronda is mad she brought Rener Gracie and Justin Flores along to convince people she doesn't train with only 1 (striking) coach, like some criticized her for doing.

And no one fell for it.

Or maybe Ronda is mad she wasn't born a man and can't beat up Floyd Mayweather and TJ Dillashaw. Maybe that's what it is.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Here's a different angle of the Water incident that almost got RRR in tears.










I think she was upset because it didn't appear that Holm was taking her seriously.

Well played Holy Holm!


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

TBH I'd be pissed off if I couldn't even have a second to finish my sip before some crazy hoe got all up in my grill...


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## YOUgotTKO (Apr 14, 2010)

*she was referring to Sarah Kaufman in her first title defense back in strickforce*



Trix said:


> Ronda says: "This isn't the first time someone thought they had the perfect gameplan to beat me. This isn't the first time someone from your camp (Jackson Wink) thought they had the perfect gameplan to beat me."
> 
> What's weird about that is, I don't remember Ronda ever fighting someone who trained out of Jackson-Wink MMA. The only person I remember from that gym fighting at 135 is Julie Kedzie and she retired without ever facing Ronda.
> 
> ...


she was referring to Sarah Kaufman in her first title defense back in strickforce


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Spite said:


> Here's a different angle of the Water incident that almost got RRR in tears.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ronda normally steps on the scale, puts her pants and shoes on Diaz brother style, then does her stare down. I think she was mad long before she stepped on the scale. Maybe Ronda does hang around with people who are douchebags and as a result, she is starting to think and act like a douchebag herself. Or maybe she is coming out of the closet with her "everyone is a douchebag and those who pretend they're not are just acting = therefore Holm = fake" nihilistic views.

It is a bit refreshing to see someone who doesn't mind pissing away their "MMA legacy". Then again didn't GSP get a bit uptight the way Ronda did when he fought Nick Diaz? I don't really care, I just want Ronda and Holm to both be as close to 100% as possible when they fight and whoever wins to deserve it without controversy.



YOUgotTKO said:


> she was referring to Sarah Kaufman in her first title defense back in strickforce


Good call.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

slapshot said:


> You know why IMO? Because *Nick Diaz* and Ronda Rousey have to build some kind of aggression to be able to hit somebody.


LOL LOL LOL, Nick Diaz? The guy who hits people left and right outside competition, being among the crowd watching an event, in the ring when he's not even fighting and in a freaking hospital? Sure this type "needs" to build up any aggression.

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Holly Holm did nothing to warrant that attitude from Ronda. She was resting her drink and Ronda had already past Dana into her face for no reason, anybody willing to blame Holm for this is just crazy. TBH, if I was the commission that is regulating this, I would go as far as fining both to avoid taking sides, just to leave the message this is just unacceptable. And Ronda speaks about being a role model, give me a break here.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

HAHAHAHAHAHAA that was too good ... the insufferable, overrated, pouty moron finally gets put out cold as expected, sooner rather than later.

I don't care for WMMA but good on Holly, seems like a level headed lady. At least I won't have to stumble into threads of that overhyped idiot's inane ramblings every other day.

One down, Conor to go.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAA that was too good ... the insufferable, overrated, pouty moron finally gets put out cold as expected, sooner rather than later.



Can't lie. It is sweet seeing someone with such a ridiculous personality get embarrassed like that.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Joabbuac said:


> Can't lie. It is sweet seeing someone with such a ridiculous personality get embarrassed like that.


Oh it's the best :happy03::thumb02:. 

Half the reason I frequent the forums is moments like this. Even more so after Anderson made douchy Sonnen cry, or ironically later when Weidman cross-eyed the by then arrogant Anderson, or Tito getting tooled and then spanked back in the day. The best thing is it's inevitability. Time goes on, some things stay the same.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Can't front. Im glad it ended the way it did.

The coup de grace was fantastic. Holm spinning Ronda's body to face her and then unleashing that high kick. Down goes grouchy face.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Iuanes said:


> Can't front. Im glad it ended the way it did.
> 
> The coup de grace was fantastic. Holm spinning Ronda's body to face her and then unleashing that high kick. *Down goes grouchy face*.


If you watch the fight back with the sound off, and imagine Goldberg yelling that when Ronda hits the floor...you could easily have yourself hours of fun


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

*Memes galore...*




















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Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)




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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> Oh it's the best :happy03::thumb02:.
> 
> Half the reason I frequent the forums is moments like this. Even more so after Anderson made douchy Sonnen cry, or ironically later when Weidman cross-eyed the by then arrogant Anderson, or Tito getting tooled and then spanked back in the day. The best thing is it's inevitability. Time goes on, some things stay the same.


This is one of those moments that make me love MMA, and it's been a long time since I've seen one of those moments.

All the crap and hype about her being a good boxer. All the nonsense about being able to top tier male fighters. Being able to beat Mayweather?! All the nauseous bullshit I've had to listen to from the UFC, White and Rogan. The classless attitude of Rowsey herself.

It all came to an end with an epic head kick.

Thank you Mrs Holm. Seeing your reaction just after the fight had ended was my favourite feel good moment in MMA.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)




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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Spite said:


>


LMAO :laugh:


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


>


Why is this one so small? It's HILARIOUS.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Oh, this is the meme thread? OK, here's my fave so far:


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Uncanny.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

So apparently, I knew more about MMA a few years ago. Here's a brief convo with @Life B Ez from 2013.




ClydebankBlitz said:


> Even the most basic of striking...and Rousey gets beat. How are there NO women in the entire world of elite female fighters capable of NOT flailing and then clinching against a bad striker Judo master? Just dont clinch. It's actually pretty simple. She's not shooting in like Chael, she's throwing jabs, then clinching, then stalling, then throwing and armbarring. Just be able to do ANY boxing and you will win.
> 
> What weight is Katie Taylor? She'd put Ronda out too.





Life B Ez said:


> Ronda has been talking about Holly Holm. She'd get put on her ass quickly.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App





ClydebankBlitz said:


> Most def. Would be VERY interesting.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> So apparently, I knew more about MMA a few years ago. Here's a brief convo with @Life B Ez from 2013.


You've got some serious time on your hands to sieve through 10000 pages of your own bullshit to find that! :thumb02:


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Spite said:


> You've got some serious time on your hands to sieve through 10000 pages of your own bullshit to find that! :thumb02:


Haha nah tbh I wanted to see if Holly was talked about much before so I searched her name. One video once of her sparring with Jones when she was 2-0 but people made fun of Jones and didnt really look at her too much. Couple of things but not much. A big Ronda bashing thread had most of them and that was where I got that from.

I thought Holly had no chance so it's not like bragging. I got caught up in the hype in 2015 haha.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Haha nah tbh I wanted to see if Holly was talked about much before so I searched her name. One video once of her sparring with Jones when she was 2-0 but people made fun of Jones and didnt really look at her too much. Couple of things but not much. A big Ronda bashing thread had most of them and that was where I got that from.
> 
> I thought Holly had no chance so it's not like bragging. I got caught up in the hype in 2015 haha.


I never get caught up in the Rowsey is a good striker shit, I've always thought it was her weakness. What surprised me is how Holy handled the grappling exchanges. What also surprised me was just how poor Rowsey was when her gameplan failed, between her and coach they did not have single idea between them.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I equate Ronda's camp to BJ Penn's camp. On par. Fighter relying on their sole talent. The more I think about it the more I think Ronda's mother is SPOT ON as a coach, psychologist and former 1984 judo Gold medalist world champion. Her mom knows what's up. Again I don't want to throw Edmond under the bus. As the head trainer it's his job to bring in specialists. He has to shoulder this and take responsibility. His entire advice was to "put your guard up and watch the left straight" after round 1. Wtf!!! 

I would have said, do not charge anymore for the love of GOD, look for the opportunity then clinch if you can. Keep jabbing to inch ur way closer to her, keep your right arm up watching for her lhk. Most importantly, pace yourself and look for the take down. 

- pace urself
- control ur distance and let her come to you which will create more openings
- counter right then clinch when Holly steps in to land a shot

It looked like a bull vs a matador.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

How do you coach your fighter to chase a counter puncher around the ring? Edmund has a lot to answer for if you ask me.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

DonRifle said:


> How do you coach your fighter to chase a counter puncher around the ring? Edmund has a lot to answer for if you ask me.


The more I think about it majority of her fights as we all know was won from her roots in judo/submission. It would always come from the clinch even against McMann and Alexis Davis which btw is one of the coolest combos ever; 1,2, left knee transition into a judo flip into a neck crank/noogie. Only fight where Ronda truly relied on her boxing was against Bethe, but she simply charged in and brawled...haha. 

Last night was tough to watch. Before the fight started I saw Holly doing lateral movements. I just felt she understood footwork, timing, and movement and man did it show. Even when she got cornered she ducked under as Ronda pirouetted with a missed left hook. 

I'm curious to hear statements from Ronda's mother, coach and of course herself. Does she now understand the root of her problem. She's a world class athlete. She needs the proper training to combat this new threat who violently over threw her in quite possibly the most humiliating way. This reminded me of Mirko vs Gonzaga. Ronda needs at least one year, but most likely two years before a rematch. In that time frame she needs 6month to heal, then train, fight a tune up match all the while focusing on takedowns + boxing and introducing muay thai into her regimen so she can at least understand the mechanics.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

What kind of standup training is she actually doing I wonder. Her main coach specializes in boxing which is her Achilles heal.
In the last two years I've seen her develop more punches and faster movement. But her footwork is poor, and she never moves her head, Beth nailed her twice on the way in in the last fight. 
She simply cannot fight holly again with the same camp. She needs to go to Matt Hume. I dunno about muay Thai it's too stationary


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

DonRifle said:


> What kind of standup training is she actually doing I wonder. Her main coach specializes in boxing which is her Achilles heal.
> In the last two years I've seen her develop more punches and faster movement. But her footwork is poor, and she never moves her head, Beth nailed her twice on the way in in the last fight.
> She simply cannot fight holly again with the same camp. She needs to go to Matt Hume. I dunno about muay Thai it's too stationary


Ironically I was reading Edmond's personal website earlier this week to research his credentials and he was a muay thai fighter!!!!!!
http://www.tarverdyan.com/#

She not only needs a muay thai coach, boxing coach, wrestling coach (Daniel Cormier), MMA coach, and specialized trainers. She has one coach to my knowledge. It's pretty archaic. 

Hume would be interesting. My suggestion would be to head up north to train with Nick Diaz/Andre Ward, get feedback from Cezar Gracie in the jitz department, then migrate to AKA. Her judo w/ Daniel Cormier's wrestling can make her even deadlier with takedowns. Both are Olympians so they'll have mutual respect for one another. 

Also she's personal friends with Tyson. Her build is like Tyson and so is her attacking style. He of all people can give her pointers on how to deal with a tall and lanky fighter.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> What kind of standup training is she actually doing I wonder. Her main coach specializes in boxing which is her Achilles heal.
> In the last two years I've seen her develop more punches and faster movement. But her footwork is poor, and she never moves her head, Beth nailed her twice on the way in in the last fight.
> She simply cannot fight holly again with the same camp. She needs to go to Matt Hume. I dunno about muay Thai it's too stationary


Ronda's game plan actually wasn't that bad though. Holly is very hard to hit when you let her come forward. So Ronda was likely told to keep moving forward on her. The problem is, Holly is a great counter puncher with a shorter fighter and has great lateral movement. 

The truth is, Holly is a nightmare matchup from Ronda. She's stronger and faster and longer and technically superior. I don't think Ronda can ever beat her. 

In fact, I think someone like Cat would matchup much better being taller and on her strength level. Rhonda will do fine with the others, but Holly's her worse possible matchup.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Calminian said:


> Ronda's game plan actually wasn't that bad though. Holly is very hard to hit when you let her come forward. So Ronda was likely told to keep moving forward on her. The problem is, Holly is a great counter puncher with a shorter fighter and has great lateral movement.
> 
> The truth is, Holly is a nightmare matchup from Ronda. She's stronger and faster and longer and technically superior. I don't think Ronda can ever beat her.
> 
> In fact, I think someone like Cat would matchup much better being taller and on her strength level. Rhonda will do fine with the others, but Holly's her worse possible matchup.


Not sure I understand this. Youre saying Hom is tough to hit when she comes forward AND when you go to her?

I admit I have limited knowledge of Holm's fights, but she does seem like a darter and counter puncher, but the counter punching is far more devastating and problematic.

Ronda should NOT have rushed. It was NOT a good plan. I don't know why Hold would be harder to hit if she came forward. Rondey want's entanglement because she's a grappler. Yes, she can move forward, but it needs have smart pressure , not straight on rushing. Rushing let her open to running into strikes, and Holm evading her. She needed to both trap and\or wait, not move forward indiscriminately.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Calminian said:


> Ronda's game plan actually wasn't that bad though. Holly is very hard to hit when you let her come forward. So Ronda was likely told to keep moving forward on her. The problem is, Holly is a great counter puncher with a shorter fighter and has great lateral movement.
> 
> The truth is, Holly is a nightmare matchup from Ronda. She's stronger and faster and longer and technically superior. I don't think Ronda can ever beat her.


There's moving forward, and then there's effective forward movement & cutting the cage. Ronda's footwork was just painful, she's needlessly bouncing around wasting energy, sprinting across the cage, getting her feet crossed, and basically doing everything they tell you not to do in your first day of boxing class.

She should take some lessons from Serra-Longo, because what they're teaching Chris Weidman works. Chris ain't the fastest guy around but he was able to close the range on Machida just fine without walking face first into punches on every exchange. And Machida is known for his evasive footwork and deadly counters.

Learn some basic footwork and patience, use a dip or slip and she can get the clinch on Holms after baiting her into coming forward with punches. And she doesn't waste all her energy chasing Holm around the cage while getting punched in the face.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

aerius said:


> There's moving forward, and then there's effective forward movement & cutting the cage. Ronda's footwork was just painful, she's needlessly bouncing around wasting energy, sprinting across the cage, getting her feet crossed, and basically doing everything they tell you not to do in your first day of boxing class.
> 
> She should take some lessons from Serra-Longo, because what they're teaching Chris Weidman works. Chris ain't the fastest guy around but he was able to close the range on Machida just fine without walking face first into punches on every exchange. And Machida is known for his evasive footwork and deadly counters.
> 
> Learn some basic footwork and patience, use a dip or slip and she can get the clinch on Holms after baiting her into coming forward with punches. And she doesn't waste all her energy chasing Holm around the cage while getting punched in the face.


Great points. I think Couture, Daniel Cormier, and Weidman are fighters she should really study. All with grappling background heck even Werdum who's striking has really improved.

It would appear once again we have a new breed of WMMA fighter. One who is predominately striking based. Kinda neat actually as I've always enjoyed watching the strikers vs the grapplers. Holm is the most precise striker with KO power vs Joanna who picks her opponents apart over several rounds. 

Hopefully this creates a professional rivalry vs a Tate vs Rousey one. Tate doesn't have the skill sets in fact none of em really do. Holm was a pro world champion fighter already and trained under Mike Winklejohn since she was 16/17. I have to re-watch her fights. I just wonder with a proper game plan from Ronda's side how would it look. I gotta imagine it can't be worse then last night.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

aerius said:


> There's moving forward, and then there's effective forward movement & cutting the cage. Ronda's footwork was just painful, she's needlessly bouncing around wasting energy, sprinting across the cage, getting her feet crossed, and basically doing everything they tell you not to do in your first day of boxing class.
> 
> She should take some lessons from Serra-Longo, because what they're teaching Chris Weidman works. Chris ain't the fastest guy around but he was able to close the range on Machida just fine without walking face first into punches on every exchange. And Machida is known for his evasive footwork and deadly counters.
> 
> Learn some basic footwork and patience, use a dip or slip and she can get the clinch on Holms after baiting her into coming forward with punches. And she doesn't waste all her energy chasing Holm around the cage while getting punched in the face.


Weidman is a completely different fighter though. He's got one of the longest reaches in the MW division. His reach is about 4-5" longer than Machida's. That wouldn't be the model for them to emulate. 

And I'm not saying Ronda has great footwork, I'm saying the game plan was good for what she brought to the table. She was trying to cut off the ring, but she's not the bounce float around type of fighter and never will be. This is Holm's world, and the best boxers in the world have trouble cutter the ring off. 

Ronda will never outbox Holly Holm. Her only shot is to land a shot, and perhaps attain some wrestling TD skills. Then again, I don't know that Ronda will ever be as strong as Holly either. At the point, Holly's the superior matchup.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Calminian said:


> Ronda's game plan actually wasn't that bad though. Holly is very hard to hit when you let her come forward. So Ronda was likely told to keep moving forward on her. The problem is, Holly is a great counter puncher with a shorter fighter and has great lateral movement.
> 
> The truth is, Holly is a nightmare matchup from Ronda. She's stronger and faster and longer and technically superior. I don't think Ronda can ever beat her.
> 
> In fact, I think someone like Cat would matchup much better being taller and on her strength level. Rhonda will do fine with the others, but Holly's her worse possible matchup.


Have a look at the fight again and see how it played out right from the start. The plan was a disaster. 
The master at closing the distance because of his poor striking was Chael. Right from the bell Chael would get a few inches in front of his opponents face. Ronda didn't do that. She circled.
This I believe is because they thought she could outbox Holly. Now Edmund had been saying Ronda could do that, so I put the blame on him as he's the coach. He's supposed to know high level boxing skills and he should know that Ronda is not fluid or experienced enough to try and box with a championship level pro boxer. 
After Ronda started getting tagged, she then started to chase as she got frustrated, then she got real sloppy and got tagged again and again. 

After round one she arrives in the corner with a busted face and Edmund tells her 'beautiful work champ!" all you gotta do is avoid the left and then the right follow up!
He didn't say calm the funk down Ronda, don't chase her. Catch your breath, stop running in the ring and swinging. 

I sincerely believe they tried to do a John Jones out of arrogance. And I mean Jones beats everyone at their own game because he's superhuman, and he has a physique from another planet. Ronda does not only her grappling and power are off the charts. No Mercy is right, the likes of Couture and Chael were guys who developed game plans to beat strikers. GSP is the same, with his jab then double leg. 
Chasing was about the worst game plan possible in my opinion and even if Ronda lost the plot because she was getting tagged, Edmund has one chance to calm her down and stem the bleeding end of round one. Hands up, footwork, head movement. Calm down. Theres nothing worse then telling a fighter to keep going and they are doing beautiful work when they are taking a vicious beating. Thats almost sadistic.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> Have a look at the fight again and see how it played out right from the start. The plan was a disaster.
> The master at closing the distance because of his poor striking was Chael. Right from the bell Chael would get a few inches in front of his opponents face. Ronda didn't do that. She circled.
> This I believe is because they thought she could outbox Holly. Now Edmund had been saying Ronda could do that, so I put the blame on him as he's the coach. He's supposed to know high level boxing skills and he should know that Ronda is not fluid or experienced enough to try and box with a championship level pro boxer.
> After Ronda started getting tagged, she then started to chase as she got frustrated, then she got real sloppy and got tagged again and again.
> ...


If Rowsey is ever going to get that belt back she needs to ditch Edmund. He's a B level coach with an A level Athlete. 90% of people on this forum could have come up with a better game plan and a 100% of people on this forum would have given her better corner advice.

I've hunch that Rousey runs the show in that gym anyway and Edmund is just another yes man that coaches her. She needs a real team that will tell her whats up.

It's going to be long road back for RRR but I do think she has what it takes to become Champion again. She is broken at the moment, and already broken people are the easiest to rebuild.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Spite said:


> If Rowsey is ever going to get that belt back she needs to ditch Edmund. He's a B level coach with an A level Athlete. 90% of people on this forum could have come up with a better game plan and a 100% of people on this forum would have given her better corner advice.
> 
> I've hunch that Rousey runs the show in that gym anyway and Edmund is just another yes man that coaches her. She needs a real team that will tell her whats up.
> 
> It's going to be long road back for RRR but I do think she has what it takes to become Champion again. She is broken at the moment, and already broken people are the easiest to rebuild.


I really don't think Edmund is a yes man. He's old school Armenian alpha male persona. Those dudes aren't yes men at all. He is just a B level coach with an A level athlete as you say, and limited. He has taught her some new strikes for sure, but I find it hard to understand why he hasn't taught her head movement. But then again I thought he was a pure boxing coach but as No Mercy has pointed out he's a Muay Thai coach so maybe that explains the lack of head movement. Kampman is probably the most famous MT coach around now isn't he, and he was famous for getting his head taken off in fights. 
Seems to be the difference between Kickboxing and MT training and style is huge. Diaz vs Silva he was able to avoid the counterpuncher big time, that was after being trained by Joe Schilling to do that. Proper footwork and head movement, none of this plodding shit.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

She'll be able to find a new coach when Edmond is doing his time for his amazing Tax fraud scam.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> Have a look at the fight again and see how it played out right from the start. The plan was a disaster.
> The master at closing the distance because of his poor striking was Chael. Right from the bell Chael would get a few inches in front of his opponents face. Ronda didn't do that.


Mainly because Ronda can't be Chael. In fact, she tried. Several times she pinned Holly against he fence and was exposed as a very poor takedown artist. There are very few if any fighters int he UFC that can do what Chael does. It would literally take her 10+ years to acquire those skills. 



DonRifle said:


> This I believe is because they thought she could outbox Holly. Now Edmund had been saying Ronda could do that, so I put the blame on him as he's the coach.


Oy, here we go. No, the loss is not on the coach, the loss is on Ronda. She was facing a superior opponent and didn't prevail. She got crushed in one of the most lopsided championship fighters in MMA history. It's up there with Silva Franklin, Ortiz Shamrock. This wasn't a case of Holly exposing a bad game plan. This was a superior fighter having a cake walk. I think even Holly was shocked how easy it was going. 



DonRifle said:


> He's supposed to know high level boxing skills and he should know that Ronda is not fluid or experienced enough to try and box with a championship level pro boxer.
> After Ronda started getting tagged, she then started to chase as she got frustrated, then she got real sloppy and got tagged again and again.


And had absolutely no choice. There was one point in the fight where she got hit so hard she started moving back. Then Holly really tagged her! No game plan in the world would have saved Ronda that night. She did not have the tools to beat Holly, and frankly never will. 



DonRifle said:


> After round one she arrives in the corner with a busted face and Edmund tells her 'beautiful work champ!" all you gotta do is avoid the left and then the right follow up!
> He didn't say calm the funk down Ronda, don't chase her. Catch your breath, stop running in the ring and swinging.


Nothing would have saved Ronda that night. The writing was on the wall. She was landing that left at will, and it was true, Ronda's only hope was avoiding it. She couldn't. If she tried to move away or circle, Holly was going to start teeing off even more. She had to close the distance and get inside and try to grab her and couldn't do that either. 

I think you just can't accept that Holly is a superior fighter.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Calminian said:


> Mainly because Ronda can't be Chael. In fact, she tried. Several times she pinned Holly against he fence and was exposed as a very poor takedown artist. There are very few if any fighters int he UFC that can do what Chael does. It would literally take her 10+ years to acquire those skills.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So your basically saying the coach does not have any influence on the fighter or the game plan. What the coach says between rounds means nothing too? 

Don't get it dude. 

Everybody and his dog knows that Holly is a better boxer then Ronda. And Edmund stated before the fight that Ronda would outbox Holly. Why are you ignoring that? Clearly that was the gameplan. 
Ronda was going after her with big hooks and powerful punches trying to KO her. Chasing after her with wild punches. She wasn't doing faints and setups and jabbing looking for the opening to grapple like she should have. Then she comes to her corner and her coach says 'beautiful champ!' after she had taken the worst beating in her life!
Your review of what happened shows a serious lack of understanding of fighting and training to be honest. Obviously Holly Holm is a better boxer, and she had better trainers who gave her a fantastic gameplan and mental preparation.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> I really don't think Edmund is a yes man. He's old school Armenian alpha male persona. Those dudes aren't yes men at all. He is just a B level coach with an A level athlete as you say, and limited. He has taught her some new strikes for sure, but I find it hard to understand why he hasn't taught her head movement. But then again I thought he was a pure boxing coach but as No Mercy has pointed out he's a Muay Thai coach so maybe that explains the lack of head movement. Kampman is probably the most famous MT coach around now isn't he, and he was famous for getting his head taken off in fights.
> Seems to be the difference between Kickboxing and MT training and style is huge. Diaz vs Silva he was able to avoid the counterpuncher big time, that was after being trained by Joe Schilling to do that. Proper footwork and head movement, none of this plodding shit.


Ronda was a B level fighter in a division with a bunch of C level fighters (except perhaps a couple, such as Cat, who truly did get caught). Then suddenly the first A level fighter entered the division. Ronda's coach is not the problem, in fact, he's likely an A level coach. She can change coaches like many have in the past, and still will lose to A fighters. It's not going to help her. This was not JDS catching Cain, or Serra catching GSP. This was a one side clinic—an A fighter whipping a B fighter. 

Listen. Ronda was never the GOAT. It was all hype, in a very new women's mma division. She was akin to a Ken Shamrock, who was dominant for a time, until a new level of competition joined in the game. I would argue Joanna is a much better representative of the new breed that is coming. Ronda will be known as a pioneer. That I give her credit for.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> ....Everybody and his dog knows that Holly is a better boxer then Ronda. .....


Yes, and also a better all around fighter, with surprisingly good TDD. This was Tito vs. Chuck. I really believe Holly is that much better that Ronda.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> So your basically saying the coach does not have any influence on the fighter or the game plan. What the coach says between rounds means nothing too?
> 
> Don't get it dude.
> 
> ...


I agree that you can put it down to the coach. The truth is I'm not sure just how much Ronda has developed over the past few years. 

I was under no illusion that Holy would out box her but I'm ashamed to say that I actually bought some of the bullshit coming from the Rousey Camp. I thought she would have had at least the basics covered but she come out swinging like a drunk that had just had her pint spilled. To call it amateurish would be an insult to amateur boxers, who I can assure you possess more knowledge about the game than Rousey does.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Did it ever dawn on any of you that maybe Ronda is just not the most gifted student? Have you all bought into the hype this much?


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Calminian said:


> Did it ever dawn on any of you that maybe Ronda is just not the most gifted student? Have you all bought into the hype this much?


No, because she still has world class Judo. Millions of people study Judo, but only a few have represented their country and fewer still have Olympic medals.

If she was a bad student she wouldnt have made it to the Olympics.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Calminian said:


> Ronda was a B level fighter in a division with a bunch of C level fighters (except perhaps a couple, such as Cat, who truly did get caught). Then suddenly the first A level fighter entered the division. Ronda's coach is not the problem, in fact, he's likely an A level coach. She can change coaches like many have in the past, and still will lose to A fighters. It's not going to help her. This was not JDS catching Cain, or Serra catching GSP. This was a one side clinic—an A fighter whipping a B fighter.
> 
> Listen. Ronda was never the GOAT. It was all hype, in a very new women's mma division. She was akin to a Ken Shamrock, who was dominant for a time, until a new level of competition joined in the game. I would argue Joanna is a much better representative of the new breed that is coming. Ronda will be known as a pioneer. That I give her credit for.


B level fighter is very harsh man!!! I mean look at her, she has a lot going for her. She lacks boxing skills and footwork. But aside from that she has all the tools, and she is more then outstanding in grappling. 
I don't think Meisha is a C level fighter, granted there are a few others who could be accused of that. 
But if we went back a while to say even Matt Hughes, his boxing was weak, Tito's was weak too, slow and cumbersome. Not B level fighters though


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Spite said:


> I agree that you can put it down to the coach. The truth is I'm not sure just how much Ronda has developed over the past few years.
> 
> I was under no illusion that Holy would out box her but I'm ashamed to say that I actually bought some of the bullshit coming from the Rousey Camp. I thought she would have had at least the basics covered but she come out swinging like a drunk that had just had her pint spilled. To call it amateurish would be an insult to amateur boxers, who I can assure you possess more knowledge about the game than Rousey does.


Yeah I find the most bizarre thing Edmund in the corner telling her 'beautiful champ'. What is the funking point having a guy in the corner doing that! When Greg Jackson started doing his thing I thought it was weird, until I realised thats exactly what your fighter needed if something is going wrong. Deep breaths. Calm the funk down. Specific gameplan. 



Spite said:


> No, because she still has world class Judo. Millions of people study Judo, but only a few have represented their country and fewer still have Olympic medals.
> 
> If she was a bad student she wouldnt have made it to the Olympics.


Exactly, and she had a bad injury in her semi final too. She is a world class athlete with a winners mentality for training and hard work


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Spite said:


> No, because she still has world class Judo. Millions of people study Judo, but only a few have represented their country and fewer still have Olympic medals.
> 
> If she was a bad student she wouldnt have made it to the Olympics.


Yes, but please understand that judo is not one of the big 5 sports in the world. There's not a Judo team in any high schools. It's a very specialized martial art and very few get into it to compete. 

And to say she's a bad student _would _be harsh. I'm merely saying she's not the gift prodigy she's been hyped to be. The girl has been overhyped. She's a pioneer in a very new women's sport. It's really as simple as that. She's not a victim of bad mean evil coaches. She's just a girl that was not as good as the other girl in the cage.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Come on lads. Now she's _overhyped_? 

A lot of us could see he had some fairly open flaws with her striking, both offensively and defensively. But come on, she still made the entire division look like she could beat them one after the other in one night without a problem. Just cause she loses one fight doesn't take away how easily she destroyed everyone.


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Calminian said:


> Yes, but please understand that judo is not one of the big 5 sports in the world. There's not a Judo team in any high schools. It's a very specialized martial art and very few get into it to compete.
> 
> And to say she's a bad student _would _be harsh. I'm merely saying she's not the gift prodigy she's been hyped to be. The girl has been overhyped. She's a pioneer in a very new women's sport. It's really as simple as that. She's not a victim of bad mean evil coaches. She's just a girl that was not as good as the other girl in the cage.


Well no combat sports are in the top 5. In the UK no combat sports are practised at School. They do wrestling in the US but outside of that I'm not sure.

It could be that the media responsibilities have took its toll on her training. But as @No_Mercy has said she needs a proper team full of specialists, not a jack of all trades, master of none.


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## oordeel (Apr 14, 2007)

Spite said:


>


hahaha, too funny!


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> B level fighter is very harsh man!!! I mean look at her, she has a lot going for her. She lacks boxing skills and footwork. But aside from that she has all the tools, and she is more then outstanding in grappling.
> I don't think Meisha is a C level fighter, granted there are a few others who could be accused of that.
> But if we went back a while to say even Matt Hughes, his boxing was weak, Tito's was weak too, slow and cumbersome. Not B level fighters though


But this is the nature of new sports. The A fighters in one season become the B fighters of the next, and the Bs become Cs. It's just the way it is in new evolving sports. Hughes was no match for GSP, and changing coaches would not have changed that. Among the new WWs, he was 2nd tier. 

Listen, Ronda has been working on her boxing for years. It's been her main focus as of late. She'll never be on Holly's level, and soon Holly will be overshadowed as women's MMA becomes more popular.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Come on lads. Now she's _overhyped_?
> 
> A lot of us could see he had some fairly open flaws with her striking, both offensively and defensively. But come on, she still made the entire division look like she could beat them one after the other in one night without a problem. Just cause she loses one fight doesn't take away how easily she destroyed everyone.


If you don't believe Ronda was _over_ hyped, you're very gullible. She was being deified. She was the unsinkable Titanic. She wasn't just once in a lifetime, she was once ever, as Rogan put it. There was no way she was going to live up to that.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Spite said:


> Well no combat sports are in the top 5. In the UK no combat sports are practised at School. They do wrestling in the US but outside of that I'm not sure.
> 
> It could be that the media responsibilities have took its toll on her training. But as @No_Mercy has said she needs a proper team full of specialists, not a jack of all trades, master of none.


Or, it could just be she's not the gifted prodigy she's been hyped to be.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Calminian said:


> Listen, Ronda has been working on her boxing for years. It's been her main focus as of late. *She'll never be on Holly's level*...


Exactly. Same way Holly's Judo will never be at Ronda's level, but
Holly Holm just proved she evolved into a better MMA fighter than Ronda Rousey is.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> ...I don't think Meisha is a C level fighter, granted there are a few others who could be accused of that.
> But if we went back a while to say even Matt Hughes, his boxing was weak, Tito's was weak too, slow and cumbersome. Not B level fighters though


BTW, I agree that Mesha is on Ronda's level, in fact I think she could possibly beat Ronda. She's improving faster than any WBW fighter IMO, especially her power. I think both Cat and Mesha are closing in on Ronda and could beat her. Cat legitimately got caught. If she's ever given a rematch, I think she does well. 

And Matt and Tito were A fighters during their reigns. But as the game improved, they got left behind. Their defeats were similar to Ronda's. It wasn't because of bad coaching.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Calminian said:


> If you don't believe Ronda was _over_ hyped, you're very gullible. She was being deified. She was the unsinkable Titanic. She wasn't just once in a lifetime, she was once ever, as Rogan put it. There was no way she was going to live up to that.


And Cormier's crap at wrestling after the Jones fight, Cain Velasquez was never good, Anthony Pettis is a hypejob. 

People who say Ronda can beat men overhype her, but Holly can't do what Ronda can do to the rest of the division.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> And Cormier's crap at wrestling after the Jones fight, Cain Velasquez was never good, Anthony Pettis is a hypejob.
> 
> People who say Ronda can beat men overhype her, but Holly can't do what Ronda can do to the rest of the division.


Yeah, but the above are competing in a very developed men's LHW division. Jones has earned his place as one of the GOAT. These are all great fighters, but you have to admit, none of them have been hyped like Ronda. They can and will live up to their hype. Ronda never will. 

And we'll see how Holly matches up in the rest of the division. I mean she just brutalized the girl at the top of the division. I think she beats them all, even though some may be a better matchup. 

And I believe this will not be Ronda's only loss. I can see both Mesha and Cat eventually beating her. How likely that is, I'm not sure.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Calminian said:


> Yeah, but the above are competing in a very developed men's LHW division. Jones has earned his place as one of the GOAT. These are all great fighters, but you have to admit, none of them have been hyped like Ronda. They can and will live up to their hype. Ronda never will.
> 
> And we'll see how Holly matches up in the rest of the division. I mean she just brutalized the girl at the top of the division. I think she beats them all, even though some may be a better matchup.
> 
> And I believe this will not be Ronda's only loss. I can see both Mesha and Cat eventually beating her. How likely that is, I'm not sure.


Holly stank up the show for her first two fights. Just did enough to win against average opponents. If Ronda hadn't gone desperately running after her we would have seen the same level of boring again. Your over rating Holly based on how poorly Ronda fought and poorly she was coached to fight that kind of opponent. Holly is a good fighter but she is definitely not way ahead of any of the other top girls


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Calminian said:


> And I believe this will not be Ronda's only loss. I can see both Mesha and Cat eventually beating her. How likely that is, I'm not sure.


If they can fight smart enough, and that's a very big if since both of them just go in there and wing it in all their previous fights. Even if they both smartened up and had the patience to follow a good game plan, there's still a pretty big problem; both of them come from a wrestling background and many of the things which are drilled into you from day 1 in wrestling end up working against you in Judo. They'll have a bunch of lifelong habits that they need to unlearn to keep Ronda from tossing them in the clinch.

Let's take grips, in wrestling you're trained to dig in an underhook to defend a takedown from the clinch, and if you can't do that you try to grab an overhook for the whizzer. Those are among the first things you learn in wrestling. But if you do that in Judo, you've given your opponent a free handle to use for tossing you straight into side control, and worse yet, they have your arm isolated when they toss you so it's straight to the armbar as Ronda has done to so many.

I think that's one place where Holly has the advantage, she doesn't have a wrestling background so she doesn't have all those habits to unlearn. She could go straight to learning how Judo works and how to stop it from working.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

DonRifle said:


> Holly stank up the show for her first two fights. Just did enough to win against average opponents. If Ronda hadn't gone desperately running after her we would have seen the same level of boring again. Your over rating Holly based on how poorly Ronda fought and poorly she was coached to fight that kind of opponent. Holly is a good fighter but she is definitely not way ahead of any of the other top girls


If it was a close fight, yeah, I could see some adjustments changing the outcome. But this was not even close. Ronda has been training boxing and footwork for years and years. She's been boasting about her boxing for years and years. She was even on the cover of Ringside. 

This is not poor coaching, this is Ronda getting beat by a way better fighter. It was that old MMA recurring theme of the grappler desperately trying to get a fighter on the ground, and when she realized it was useless, tried as hard as she could to compete on the feet.


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