# Realistically Can Any HW Stand With James Toney



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

If it was a stand up war could anyone in the HW division stand up with this guy? I know Cain has outstanding stand up but James Toney is heads and Heels above any Hw when it comes to stand up. Mentally wise I think most Hw will fight TOney standing and engage in a boxing match.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Yes they can stand with Toney. 

Boxing and MMA are 2 different sports. 

I cant wait to see Toney bob and weave his face right into somebody's shin.


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## Kang-War (Aug 21, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> If it was a stand up war could anyone in the HW division stand up with this guy? I know Cain has outstanding stand up but James Toney is heads and Heels above any Hw when it comes to stand up. Mentally wise I think most Hw will fight TOney standing and engage in a boxing match.


Boxing with ufc glove and boxing glove is so much diferent u cant block with ur glove. Boxer typically over look that fack. I believe JDS would destroy Toney in a stand up figth


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Oh yeah, Ray Mercer thought he was a real bad ass to and went to fight in K-1, he was less than successful due to the fact that its not as simple as just learning kicks, boxers like Toney have spent a huge part of of there life trading punches, they aren't watching for kicks and that is instinct. I would bet Pat Berry would tear Toney apart with leg kicks worse than Aldo on Faber.


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## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

Kang-War said:


> Boxing with ufc glove and boxing glove is so much diferent u cant block with ur glove. Boxer typically over look that fack. I believe JDS would destroy Toney in a stand up figth


Very true, I think so also and he's (JDS)not the only one IMO.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

even just the kicks involved in a stand up fight could seriously effect the way a stand up fight could turn out. to be honest I think Toney stands a better chance in a MMA fight than he would in a K-1 kick-boxing fight, personally I would not be surprised if Toney has some decent GnP to work with in a MMA match, just standing up kick boxing with a decent opponent I would bet he would get his ass handed to him


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

See part of it to though is the physical conditioning as far as muscle mass is diffrent. A boxer throws everything straight down the middle a MMA fighter uses a much more diverse muscles than a boxer.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Kang-War said:


> Boxing with ufc glove and boxing glove is so much diferent u cant block with ur glove. Boxer typically over look that fack. I believe JDS would destroy Toney in a stand up figth


Toney blocked punches? :confused05:

I thought he just used his forehead to do that. Either way, he's still a legit heavyweight boxer, and with him wearing the ufc gloves, its gonna hurt that much more. Mir, Nog, Cain, Kongo, Randy, all have suspect chins in their past. So anyone who isn't a wrestler will be in serious trouble, which is why Randy is gonna get the first crack to take him down.


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## KillingRoad89 (Jul 28, 2009)

If this was 10 years ago id say nobody could stand with him.


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## SigFig (Sep 22, 2009)

Mirko, Hardonk, Barry, Kongo... aka guys who can kick, maybe.

I kinda wish they'd throw Gilbert Yvel at him. That could be a fun one.

And Paul Daley could jump up to heavyweight and KO Toney with no problem 'cos he has the wickedest K1 level skills that mma has ever seen in its existence.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

Yes, as Toney is not a hard puncher (regardless of his misleading moniker) and his opponent will hold their guard high (see Randy vs Vitor).

Close your eyes and swing for the fences, Toney.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

I think Randy Will try to stand with him and use his dirty boxing. Also is aint leg kicks a lost art with HW fighters in the ufc. Its been a while since I have seen any HW use them effectively. FOr the past year it has been boxing and G n P if anything. It is exciting to see how toney does, he does have a suspect chin in boxing but don't know how that will effect him in MMA. He does have signifacant boxing skills with power and loves to trade punch so we will see he does in the ufc.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

marcthegame said:


> If it was a stand up war could anyone in the HW division stand up with this guy? I know Cain has outstanding stand up but James Toney is heads and Heels above any Hw when it comes to stand up. Mentally wise I think most Hw will fight TOney standing and engage in a boxing match.


yhea get a good kick boxer in there and there is no chance of him wining. Mirko would kick the shit out of him. Mir has show great improvement in his standup and the list goes on and on.


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## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

Any smart kickboxer can take Toney standing. No doubt hes going to stand like a traditional boxer which is going to leave his legs for the taking. And gaurenteed Toney's legs are not conditioned to take anymore than like 2 solid leg kicks.


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## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

americanfighter said:


> yhea get a good kick boxer in there and there is no chance of him wining. Mirko would kick the shit out of him. Mir has show great improvement in his standup and the list goes on and on.


great minds


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

spaulding91 said:


> great minds


think alike


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

I hope he's training like Machida, train everything else so your strengths can shine through. If he learns some solid TDD and learns how to check some kicks he will be a beast, the one thing he will be able to do better than anyone is throw combinations, if he gets anyone backing up while he's throwing a combination it's game over.


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## Can.Opener (Apr 8, 2009)

righto things Toney uses in boxing to be successful that he can't in MMA:

slip punches with his shoulder roll style
use massive gloves to turn clean punches into glances
stand anywhere near as close as he is used to
tie up

so that's everything, yes?

All the guy has left is a punchers chance in the first minute before he gases out or is staring at hammerfist elbows when randy is mauling him from full mount.

Anyone who thinks Toney has a chance in hell as a fat washed up middleweight boxer in the UFC HW or LHW division against someone like Randy Couture is delusional.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Toney wouldn't even win the HW title if they switched over to boxing. The guy is a has been now.


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## js9234 (Apr 8, 2007)

Maybe I'm lost but when did Cain start to have outstanding stand up? He still has lots to learn and is an average striker imo...



marcthegame said:


> If it was a stand up war could anyone in the HW division stand up with this guy? *I know Cain has outstanding stand up* but James Toney is heads and Heels above any Hw when it comes to stand up. Mentally wise I think most Hw will fight TOney standing and engage in a boxing match.


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

Can.Opener said:


> righto things Toney uses in boxing to be successful that he can't in MMA:
> 
> slip punches with his shoulder roll style
> use massive gloves to turn clean punches into glances
> ...



really....a punchers chance? this isn't kimbo slice, he was a world class boxer. Do you know anything about the guy or just hate him because he used to be a boxer. To completely discount his boxing is absolutely insane. I'm well aware his opponents will most probably go straight for the takedown or press him against the cage, but that's because they don't want to get knocked out. Lesnar or Carwin wouldn't stand a snowballs chance in hell against Toney if it was a boxing match using mma gloves, too bad he probably won't have any TDD/clinch ability and we won't get to see him punch.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Everyone is making Toney sound like he can't fight. Kicks are good but they are not that hard to learn how to block. It really just depends on how he trains. He may seem like washed up has been but he has still been training in one form of fighting for years. People think this is a disadvantage but how many people only throw munches in MMA? His combos will be amazing like someone has already pointed out and his reactions should still be ok. Toney also liked to finish fights later in the rounds when his opponent was tired too. I do not know what his cardio is like now but if anyone gasses when they are trying to stand and fight him is screwed. 

Now I do not know what Toney will be like coming into MMA because I do not know if he is training the right things or what shape he is in. I just think people are underestemating Boxers in this thread a lot.


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

I don't think it's fair to say untill we see him fight. We need to see what he can do on his feet. He's old, he might be too slow now, the head movement might not be there, the power might be lacking. We don't know:thumbsup:


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

What would he do against a stomp kick? I mean really, you could just do that over and over and shut him down completely.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

As mentioned before, any kickboxer would be able to 'stand' with Toney. If a wrestler tried to stand with him its an easy win for Toney.

Maybe Belfort or Anderson Silva could box with him?

Edit: im assuming hes a light heavyweight?


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

js9234 said:


> Maybe I'm lost but when did Cain start to have outstanding stand up? He still has lots to learn and is an average striker imo...


Cain displayed amazing stand up in the Nog fight. And I think we'll see alot more of that in future fights. 
JDS would destroy Toney on the feet.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

In his prime James Toney would be a man to be feared on his feet but now? how old is he? mid 40's? 

he isnt in great shape so he isn't exactly gonna be quick. Yeah, he'll have heavy hands and know how to use them but against somebody like Cain or JDS, or even Carwin (to a lesser extent) who are fast with their combos that wont be enough, especially in later rounds when he starts to gas and inevitably gets even slower.

that's before you even bring Kicks into the equation.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Killstarz said:


> In his prime James Toney would be a man to be feared on his feet but now? *how old is he? mid 40's? *
> 
> he isnt in great shape so he isn't exactly gonna be quick. Yeah, he'll have heavy hands and know how to use them but against somebody like Cain or JDS, or even Carwin (to a lesser extent) who are fast with their combos that wont be enough, especially in later rounds when he starts to gas and inevitably gets even slower.
> 
> that's before you even bring Kicks into the equation.


Early 40's ... just 41, much younger than Randy or Coleman etc. Also almost a decade younger than Mercer who people seem to be comparing him to.

But yeah, any top kickboxer would kill him, the stance just lends itself to kicks. And boxing is just so watered down nowadays with the constant clinching, hugging and hiding behind huge gloves. Kongo, JDS, Hardonk, maybe even CroCop.



osmium said:


> What would he do against a stomp kick? I mean really, you could just do that over and over and shut him down completely.


What do you mean stomp kick? Stomps are illegal in the UFC. Or did you mean "stop" kick as in a Muay Thai front kick / push kick?


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> Early 40's ... just 41, much younger than Randy or Coleman etc. Also almost a decade younger than Mercer who people seem to be comparing him to.


i suppose the difference between him and Randy is that Randy is in phenomenal shape and can go 3 rounds without a noticable amount of gassing...i can imagine Toneys first fight being a lot like Colemans last fight.


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## BlacklistShaun (Sep 30, 2009)

rabakill said:


> really....a punchers chance? this isn't kimbo slice, he was a world class boxer. Do you know anything about the guy or just hate him because he used to be a boxer. To completely discount his boxing is absolutely insane. I'm well aware his opponents will most probably go straight for the takedown or press him against the cage, but that's because they don't want to get knocked out. Lesnar or Carwin wouldn't stand a snowballs chance in hell against Toney if it was a boxing match using mma gloves, too bad he probably won't have any TDD/clinch ability and we won't get to see him punch.


Isn't MMA about using your strengths and making it the other guys weakness? I mean you don't see everyone going in trying to stand up with Anderson, everyone wants to get him on the ground. You don't see people trying to take down Brock, they try to keep it standing. I think if anyone goes in and intentionally tries to box with Toney that would be a really shitty gameplan to say the least.

I'm not discrediting his accomplishments as a boxer or saying that he can't bang with his hands. On the other hand MMA is about being a good well rounded fighter and that he is not.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Didn't Kimbo beat Ray Mercer? Tony isn't used to the clinch, knees in the gut, leg kick clinch, the push off followed by hooks and and crosses. Tonys going down. He ain't doing anything in MMA.


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## MILFHunter947 (Jan 30, 2010)

osmium said:


> What would he do against a stomp kick? I mean really, you could just do that over and over and shut him down completely.


yea....because stomps are totally legal in the ufc...:confused03:


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

Holy shit, I'm finding it hard to restrain myself from calling people out on their stupidity. 

*THIS ISN'T 1995*


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

short answer, Yes.

long answer, Hell Yes.

Those that think no.... wtf is wrongw with you?? go watch boxing or this may happen





 skip to about 4min if you wanna see Toneys future


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

alizio said:


> short answer, Yes.
> 
> long answer, Hell Yes.
> 
> ...



oh my....

think that clears things up boys :thumb02:


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

well if i must clear it up more.

Mercer is a TRUE HW, tall and a power puncher with good reach.

Think about lil old flat footed James vs a kickboxer in MMA.... lol

he wouldnt land a punch. tko via kicks to anywhere, body, legs, head.

tko via foot stomps. tko vs elbows to the arm. tko via knee to the body.

alot of ways this could go. but they all go the same way, James Toney laid out.

Now if you ask, realistically can any MMA fighter flat out box in the cage with James Toney.

yea, plenty of them can, alot of his defensive boxing is gonna be useless, esp if u include dirty boxing into the criteria. James would definately improve his chances greatly if some1 choose just to trade hands, on experience alone.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

God I am going to love not having to sludge through unsubstantiated post by people raving about Toney's "insane" ko power. I feel like making up a form letter as I have gotten tired of referencing his career stats, style, weaknesses, age, shape, etc. Boxers seem to have taken on mythological stature with some people on this board . It's like they still believe in the little white bearded kung-fu master up in the hills who can kill with one punch. Has MMA not taught people a lesson by showing what works and what doesn't.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

the funniest part is gonna be James and his MMA fans complaining that RAndy didnt box with him.... what a coward....

ummmm... its MMA... kinda within the rules... kinda like telling d12 its unfair he dunks like that.... cuz you cant.

if dwight howard was a man he would lay it up everytiem and give ppl a chance to beat him!!!


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

alizio said:


> the funniest part is gonna be James and his MMA fans complaining that RAndy didnt box with him.... what a coward....
> 
> ummmm... its MMA... kinda within the rules... kinda like telling d12 its unfair he dunks like that.... cuz you cant.
> 
> if dwight howard was a man he would lay it up everytiem and give ppl a chance to beat him!!!


I love the classic apologist argument: "But if they stand and trade with Toney they don't stand a chance". This is an inane point. Why would someone abandon everything they trained for all these years and play to someone else's strength. Why bring a knife to a gun fight. MMA is a tool belt that allows one to adapt and change. Boxing is a hammer that sees everything as a nail.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> I love the classic apologist argument: "But if they stand and trade with Toney they don't stand a chance". This is an inane point. Why would someone abandon everything they trained for all these years and play to someone else's strength. Why bring a knife to a gun fight. MMA is a tool belt that allows one to adapt and change. Boxing is a hammer that sees everything as a nail.


People forget that MMA hands are MUCH different than Boxing. Obviously the distance and glove size being the #1 aspect. Look at the best striker at HW; JDS. He's in striking range probably 10 seconds total per fight (besides the CroCop one). You can't just trade and expect your gloves, shoulders, and rules to protect the rest of your body in MMA. 

Having great technical "boxing" and having great hands are two whole different things. One of the best examples of Boxing vs MMA hands is Rogers vs Arlovski. Arlovski has 100x more technical boxing. Rogers is a much much better striker. Not that Rogers is diverse with knees, elbows, leg kicks etc (although his knees are vicious), it's simply that his hands are perfectly suited for fighting - opposed to Arlovski's hands that are great for BOXING.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> People forget that MMA hands are MUCH different than Boxing. Obviously the distance and glove size being the #1 aspect. Look at the best striker at HW; JDS. He's in striking range probably 10 seconds total per fight (besides the CroCop one). You can't just trade and expect your gloves, shoulders, and rules to protect the rest of your body in MMA.
> 
> Having great technical "boxing" and having great hands are two whole different things. One of the best examples of Boxing vs MMA hands is Rogers vs Arlovski. Arlovski has 100x more technical boxing. Rogers is a much much better striker. Not that Rogers is diverse with knees, elbows, leg kicks etc (although his knees are vicious), it's simply that his hands are perfectly suited for fighting - opposed to Arlovski's hands that are great for BOXING.


We really can not say anything until we see how Toney adapts to MMA. When you bring up Ray mercer being KO by a kick you have to see that Ray has been KO. Toney never has. Andrie being brought up in this is pretty insulting because he has a terrible chin. The reason why rogers won was because he could take more punishment than Arlovski. Toney has the ability to stand and trade and I don't think he will be KOed. I want to see his cardio in an MMA fight because he used to wait until someone got tired before he really turned it on so if anyone of his opponents gasses I can see a pretty fast TKO coming. Kimbo would get dropped by Toney IMO because his cardio is terrible. 

I do not think that Toney can beat everyone in the division because he has one great skill like a kung fu fighter on a hill. But Toney was a pretty good boxer for a while for a reason. Any MMArtist will mant to get it to the ground IMO and just completely elliminate any chance.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

If you go at him like Nog went after Cain, no way in hell. But if you kick the hell out of his legs and weaken his base, then kick his head, it'll be over in the first round or two.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

MILFHunter947 said:


> yea....because stomps are totally legal in the ufc...:confused03:


But stomp kicks are which is what I said.


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## streetpunk08 (Jul 15, 2006)

Just because Toney is a former world champion boxer doesn't mean nobody is gonna be able to stand with him. MMA striking is not boxing, there's alot of key differences. 4 oz. gloves, knees, kicks. Alot of boxing stances and techniques are designed for only punches and bigger gloves.


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## Mc19 (Jul 6, 2006)

I hope people actually realize that Toney is not even close to his prime.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> But yeah, any top kickboxer would kill him, the stance just lends itself to kicks. And boxing is just so watered down nowadays with the constant clinching, hugging and hiding behind huge gloves. Kongo, JDS, Hardonk, maybe even CroCop.


I agree with this 100%, I've thought of who I would like to see Toney fight and not been able to come up with any names that really stand out but you just pushed it with your post, CroCop is one person I would love to see him fight and I think CroCop would destroy him standing.

In fact as I posted before I think Toneys best bet maybe on the ground with some GnP than what he would have with a decent K-1 quality opponent, I know he is fight Couture tho and I think he has a chance in that fight, Couture is over rated.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

alizio said:


> short answer, Yes.
> 
> long answer, Hell Yes.
> 
> ...


Try to keep in mind that this video shows an old Ray Mercer fighting a prime Remy Bonjasky. If you dont know much about Remy, he is pretty easily one of the top ten kickboxers of all time. Its highly unlikely that James Toney will face anyone with even half of Remy's striking ability (im aware Crocop has KO'ed Remy, but that was a long time ago when Crocop was a full time kickboxer and didnt suck). That said, I agree with the folks who think most good kickboxers who focus on low kicks will be able to handle Toney without much resistance. It isnt that hard to learn the technique required to defend against leg kicks, but its takes a long, long time to condidtion your legs to get used to taking a beating from dudes who throw them like Barry, Crcop, or Hardonk. Toney is old and this thing is gonna blow up in his face.


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## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

Stand up war... He has a puncher's chance. He's not in top physical condition anymore. His speed isn't as great anymore. The one thing though that James Toney has was pure boxing technique. Yes MMA boxing is different.. the key difference would be the distance a boxer can stand from an opponent and their comfort zone. Fighters tend to have a further comfort zone in MMA than boxing as the padding in the gloves allows that.

But punching wise.. I'm pretty sure Toney would still give troubles to even the top HWs of UFC. Ray Mercer != Toney in technique.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Sure, anyone who is smart enough to kick and GTF-away. Switch up to head kicks and I see some dudes making it a bonjasky vs mercer 


edit: okay so someone already posted the bonjasky/mercer video x_X 

glad to see others informed ;D


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

SigFig said:


> Mirko, Hardonk, Barry, Kongo... aka guys who can kick, maybe.
> 
> I kinda wish they'd throw Gilbert Yvel at him. That could be a fun one.


Yvel's risky, though. He throws caution to the wind sometimes, and I think Dana wants someone who will gameplan for Toney. Randy fits the bill perfectly.


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## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

xeberus said:


> Sure, anyone who is smart enough to kick and GTF-away. Switch up to head kicks and I see some dudes making it a bonjasky vs mercer
> 
> 
> edit: okay so someone already posted the bonjasky/mercer video x_X
> ...


As much as I don't really like the guy but Brock would absolutely destroy Toney. Toney is short and fat and could never reach Lesnar, it's just a case of size matters more then technique. Usually if all else is even technique wins but Brock is just too big for Toney.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

rabakill said:


> really....a punchers chance? this isn't kimbo slice, he *was* a world class boxer. Do you know anything about the guy or just hate him because he used to be a boxer. To completely discount his boxing is absolutely insane. I'm well aware his opponents will most probably go straight for the takedown or press him against the cage, but that's because they don't want to get knocked out. Lesnar or Carwin wouldn't stand a snowballs chance in hell against Toney if it was a boxing match using mma gloves, too bad he probably won't have any TDD/clinch ability and we won't get to see him punch.


Was a world class boxer, years ago at a different weight class much lighter than the one he is currently fighting at. Toney hasnt shown power punching in years.

He is gonna get destroyed, he isnt a MMArtist, he's an old washed up boxer looking for a pay day that he isnt getting in boxing.


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## Brutus (May 27, 2007)

Toney is done as a boxer. His reflexes are done and his chin is not what it used to be. Hes gonna get beat on by Couture and then retire. Simple as that.


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## Can.Opener (Apr 8, 2009)

rabakill said:


> really....a punchers chance? this isn't kimbo slice, he was a world class boxer. Do you know anything about the guy or just hate him because he used to be a boxer. To completely discount his boxing is absolutely insane. I'm well aware his opponents will most probably go straight for the takedown or press him against the cage, but that's because they don't want to get knocked out. Lesnar or Carwin wouldn't stand a snowballs chance in hell against Toney if it was a boxing match using mma gloves, too bad he probably won't have any TDD/clinch ability and we won't get to see him punch.


I don't hate boxers, what the hell? I've just given a few truth nuggets.

His particular boxing style (shoulder rolling, tie-up, bobbing and weaving inside) does not translate well to the distance and defence used in mixed martial arts.

If you'd prefer the punchers chance comment rephrased: Toney has a hall of fame boxers chance inside the first half of round 1 before gasing due to being old and fat. He'll then be taken down with ease and destroyed by Randy Couture.


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## BlacklistShaun (Sep 30, 2009)

Yea, Toney has a horrible style of boxing for MMA. I predict a lot of tying up and getting taken down. I'm sure it's going to frustrate him that everytime he tries to move in the other guy either ties up with him and pins him against the cage or takes him down.

I know the feeling though because I started BJJ after I had been doing MT for many years. It was completely frustrating that these little dudes were taking me down and I couldn't do anything about it.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

funny thing is so many ppl on MMA forums know so little about boxing.....

they think James Toney is still relevent in boxing HAHAHAHA

they think that belt he is worth more then a cereal box belt?? HAHAHAHA

they think any legit boxer with a real name and real drawing power would waste time fighting James Toney? HHAHAHAHA

fact is, if James could get a boxing match, he wouldnt be in the UFC.

he cant. he cant beat Samuel Peters who is what MMA fans would call a low level "gatekeeper" at HW in boxing. he used to be decent and a couple decent wins but he is nothing special at all.

he is here for a payday, no more, no less. its dumbfounding how many ppl cant figure that out.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Straight up boxing match? JDS would lose. The only fighters who can stand up with him are kickboxers, you need to take out his legs and pin him against a cage.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> Straight up boxing match? JDS would lose. The only fighters who can stand up with him are kickboxers, you need to take out his legs and pin him against a cage.


You say that like a fact yet I bet you don't know anything about JDS' training, background, talent or anything about Toney for that matter.


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

Standing with a fat old boxer without 1 Punch power? lots of people, Cain, Frank, JDS, Shane, or old Cro Cop even, would destroy him.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

i think all the top HWs could stand with him.

most of the middle guys, Kongo, Barry, CroCop.... they would beat him standing too.

I would be interested in Nelson vs Toney if Roy wanted to stand and bang.

Toneys boxing style doesnt translate well for MMA. He isnt about lateral movement and speed.

he is about defensive boxing, shoulder rolls, good head movement and above average timing and accuracy with decent hand speed.

If you were saying Manny P... or some1 with that kind of crazy speed, handspeed, footwork and athletism.... well that would be a different story standing.

i think alot of ppl need to tell themselves this tho.

James Toney IS NOT a HW x1000

if ppl think he is, cuz he won some crackerjack HW title. i feel bad. there are so many belts in boxing... hell, i just made a belt up today, the Intercontiental South Western Chicano Champion.... Cain Velasquez won the title sparring vs Paul Buentello this morning.

better watch out, another current boxing champ in the house!!


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## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

First of all I'm definitely not meaning this vid as showing boxing vs. kickboxing as styles. Ignashov was the best hw thai-boxer in the world. But some says that it's easy to learn to block leg kicks, but think about it's not just the technique itself, it's to develop an eye for when those leg kicks come, and be able to block them even in awkward positions like when you're about to punch or even during an attack. This vid just shows how devastating leg kicks can be for a boxer who isn't used to them. 

Also you don't feel comfortable when there are new elements you're not used to, and that affects your own style. You get tense and maybe hesitant etc.


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## dave-stjohn (Nov 10, 2009)

alizio said:


> i think all the top HWs could stand with him.
> 
> most of the middle guys, Kongo, Barry, CroCop.... they would beat him standing too.
> 
> ...


Congrats on the new belt, I don't know which is worse, boxing or the WWE for the amount of belts they have?


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

dave-stjohn said:


> Congrats on the new belt, I don't know which is worse, boxing or the WWE for the amount of belts they have?


 17 divisions and 76 sanctioning bodies...

now by my gorilla math.... that is.......



WAY TOO MANY!! 

on a side note, wouldnt it be great if UFC would co-promote so we could have over 1000 champions in MMA aswell??


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

alizio said:


> 17 divisions and 76 sanctioning bodies...
> 
> now by my gorilla math.... that is.......
> 
> ...


Not to get off topic, but some of the best fights I can remember (as far as hype and anticipation) were when the UFC brought Chuck Liddel to fight Overeem and Rampage in Pride. Not all co-promotion in bad, greed simply gets in the way.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Not to get off topic, but some of the best fights I can remember (as far as hype and anticipation) were when the UFC brought Chuck Liddel to fight Overeem and Rampage in Pride. Not all co-promotion in bad, greed simply gets in the way.


 of course in some instances it could be great.

the problem i see it opening the floodgates. giving all these smaller promotions legit status, then what?? they want more, they want belts? they want more $ etc.

last of my OT stuff

point was, boxing has so many champions, you could have walked by one on the way to lunch and then bought a hotdog from a street vendor that was a former champ.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Nomale said:


>


I keep wondering...did Williams train for that fight at all, or did he just think he could walk in there and knock Ignashov's head off? It's embarrassing.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

Nomale said:


> Also you don't feel comfortable when there are new elements you're not used to, and that affects your own style. You get tense and maybe hesitant etc.


Good example is Cro-cop fighting in a cage with no corners .


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

James Toneys own manager asked a good question to James...

"If Pete Rose switched to cricket near the end of his baseball career. Would he have been one of the best cricket hitters in the game??"

i mean, cricket is just a stick n a ball right?? Whats that you say?? Different rules?? different styles?? different techniques??

o rly.... who would have thought that 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPORTS WITH ONE SIMILARITY, could be so COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

amazing.

on that note i think that Usian Bolt is likely the greatest soccer player of all time. whos gonna catch him?? oh, theres more to soccer then just running?? who woulda thot....


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

dave-stjohn said:


> Congrats on the new belt, I don't know which is worse, boxing or the WWE for the amount of belts they have?


At least in the WWE you know which belts mean something.

seriously how many different "titles" are there for every slightly important weight class in boxing? I know theres a lot.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

Syxx Paq said:


> At least in the WWE you know which belts mean something.
> 
> seriously how many different "titles" are there for every slightly important weight class in boxing? I know theres a lot.


I know you jus didnt compare the "WWE" to a legit sport of any kind. LMFAO.. Thats jus to much.. Ive gotta sign off this forum now.. wow.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

[/QUOTE]

HAHAHAHHA! I came in here to give you guys some if my wisdom on what it's like to get kicked by someone who really knows how and just how powerful, painful, and traumatic that can be the first time you experience it. hhhahahahaha...... never mind.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> Not to get off topic, but some of the best fights I can remember (as far as hype and anticipation) were when the UFC brought Chuck Liddel to fight Overeem and Rampage in Pride. Not all co-promotion in bad, greed simply gets in the way.


If you were in Dana White's shoes you wouldn't be co-promoting, it is bad for business. Taking Chuck to Pride was completely different and was in 2003, those days are gone, the UFC is the big dog now and no co-promotion is necessary.

Being generous rather than greedy wouldn't have got the UFC to where it is today, so for the sake of one or two big fights it really isn't worth it.

Back on topic... I can't believe hardcore MMA fans could be so deluded in thinking James Toney is a threat. Words fail me.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Hiro said:


> Back on topic... I can't believe hardcore MMA fans could be so deluded in thinking James Toney is a threat. Words fail me.


I couldn't have said it any better :thumbsup:

I am ashamed on the whole Toney topics..


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

Under Marquess of Queensberry rules HELL NO!
Under MMA rules there are plenty of fighters who have a good shot at eating James alive but this is pure speculation because I have no gauge in which to measure his ability to deal with kicks, elbows, knees, the clinch, dirty boxing and gloves that don't allow for much defense.

There have been some high level boxers that did well in K1 and some, not so well, factor in the distraction of takedowns and how James has NO ground experience and I can guarantee that he won’t be able to use the same techniques that made him such a successful boxer.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> I couldn't have said it any better :thumbsup:
> 
> I am ashamed on the whole Toney topics..





Hiro said:


> If you were in Dana White's shoes you wouldn't be co-promoting, it is bad for business. Taking Chuck to Pride was completely different and was in 2003, those days are gone, the UFC is the big dog now and no co-promotion is necessary.
> 
> Being generous rather than greedy wouldn't have got the UFC to where it is today, so for the sake of one or two big fights it really isn't worth it.
> 
> Back on topic... I can't believe hardcore MMA fans could be so deluded in thinking James Toney is a threat. Words fail me.


Is he gonna have a dominating answer to leg kicks and take downs or even grinding him out of energy? Hell no.... I dont think he will do as good as Alessio Sakara with rounded mma game. But I do think anyone that anyone stupid enough to stands with him runs a damn good chance of getting Timmy'd - Mercer style with a quickness. Thats all Im rooting for a good ole highlight KTFO.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

Jesus, I'm away for three weeks and this is what I come back to? Absolutely, I would venture to say 98% of the fighters in the UFC would put on a clinic against Toney. In the HW division, he'd lose soundly to 80% of them, and he'd have a chance against the worst 20%. 

I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it until I'm sadly left wanting, I would love to see James Toney against a top five heavyweight so he can be demolished and embarassed in less than a minute.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Jesus, I'm away for three weeks and this is what I come back to? Absolutely, I would venture to say 98% of the fighters in the UFC would put on a clinic against Toney. In the HW division, he'd lose soundly to 80% of them, and he'd have a chance against the worst 20%.
> 
> I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it until I'm sadly left wanting, I would love to see James Toney against a top five heavyweight so he can be demolished and embarassed in less than a minute.


Don't need a top 5er for that. Randy will take care of it. I only hope that he takes his time, gasses him thoroughly, then gets his first (i think) *standing KO.*


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

ZENKI1 said:


> Is he gonna have a dominating answer to leg kicks and take downs or even grinding him out of energy? Hell no.... I dont think he will do as good as Alessio Sakara with rounded mma game. But I do think anyone that anyone stupid enough to stands with him runs a damn good chance of getting Timmy'd - Mercer style with a quickness. Thats all Im rooting for a good ole highlight KTFO.





Hiro said:


> Back on topic... I can't believe hardcore MMA fans could be so deluded in thinking James Toney is a threat. Words fail me.


Honestly I just wanted to leave this here and say no more, but quoting myself and not discussing is a bit lame, so i'll go into some detail.

You say yourself he can't deal with leg kicks, that's the big issue. Not only that but the threat of a takedown, being pinned against the cage, being clinched and knee'd in the legs/body/face are all reasons why a boxer will always have a hard time in MMA. But this boxer is past 40, out of shape and not half of what he is in the highlight videos.

And despite you highlighting at least a couple of things that seriously restrict him, you then go on to say 'if anyone is stupid enough to stand with him'. How is it stupid? Most heavyweights would completely tool Toney with some movement, leg kicks, clinches etc. That's bread and butter for these guys, Toney wouldn't know what the hell is going on and all he has is his boxing skill. What use is boxing when you've got a guy circling out of range, out of the pocket and chopping his leg to pieces?

Just because he's a boxer doesn't give him the strength of Incredible Hulk and mean anyone who stands with him is risking a big KO. Toney may have worn some fighters down and got a couple of KOs in his career, albeit at a lighter weight and many moons ago, but he's not just going to KO everyone he hits in MMA. This isn't a movie or a fantasy and I'd bet money that there are UFC heavyweights with more power in their hands than James Toney, and I'm not just talking Carwin.

You mention Sylvia but he's a boxer's perfect fight. He's a fairly slow, flat footed and unathletic boxer. Does Sylvia do anything other than box? No, not really, which is why he is a perfect fight for a boxer and got KTFO by Mercer (who got embaressed and bullied by Kimbo). Randy isn't that guy and nor are all the other heavyweights/LHWs in the UFC. MMA has left Tim Sylvia behind, he's not relevant anymore. 

I can picture it now, Toney comes in flat footed and looking for the KO, and whoever is standing opposite chops him with a leg kick to his lead leg. A few more of them and Toney is limping, making him an easy picking for a highlight reel finish. Either that or he just gets pushed against the cage/taken down and worked. Somewhere in there you see some Incredible Hulk shit happening or some stupid 'I'm here to box you' type shit where Toney lands a punch on the jaw and lives up to his nickname. Maybe in a movie but not in the UFC, it's just not going to happen regardless of someone standing with him.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Great post and well written too boot:thumb02:


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

I think it needs to be said that Kimbo could easily do it. out of all the guys in the UFC Kimbo is the most experienced Fat, Old, Boxer Hunter.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Holy fence holding Batman! I thought the ref was gonna have to break the wrist and walk away:laugh:


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Syxx Paq said:


> I think it needs to be said that Kimbo could easily do it. out of all the guys in the UFC Kimbo is the most experienced Fat, Old, Boxer Hunter.


haha I love that fight. did you hear the announcer say 
" the former heavyweight champion of the world never got a chance to create distance! he never had a chance to box!"

Yes kimbo is all the mma fighter it would take to embarrass Toney. Personally I think he's the perfect man for the job.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

Hiro said:


> Honestly I just wanted to leave this here and say no more, but quoting myself and not discussing is a bit lame, so i'll go into some detail.
> 
> You say yourself he can't deal with leg kicks, that's the big issue. Not only that but the threat of a takedown, being pinned against the cage, being clinched and knee'd in the legs/body/face are all reasons why a boxer will always have a hard time in MMA. But this boxer is past 40, out of shape and not half of what he is in the highlight videos.
> 
> ...


Ok what part did u not agree with? You jus elaborated on everything I said he had going against him? Let me spell this out for ya once again..

ANYONE HAS A BOXERS CHANCE. 

Being that boxing is Tooneys expertiese Id give him a lil more chance then the next guy. You claim that NO one would be as stupid as Timmy you could eaisly think that.. Timmy is a X ufc champ. He jus had his head up his ass and got caught.. But to think its not possible no way no how is ******* rediculous.

Thats all Im rooting for is the big upset.


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## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

I used to work out of the same gym in Livonia , Michigan as Toney. He is tough but never in great shape, at this age he can not win a boxing match so he is really ajoke in MMA, even just standing in the HW division he would gas so fast I doubt he could beat Ben R.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

ZENKI1 said:


> Ok what part did u not agree with? You jus elaborated on everything I said he had going against him? Let me spell this out for ya once again..
> 
> ANYONE HAS A BOXERS CHANCE.
> 
> ...





ZENKI1 said:


> But I do think anyone *that anyone stupid enough to stands with him* runs a damn good chance of getting Timmy'd - Mercer style with a quickness.


Standing with Toney isn't stupid, simple as that. Toney is a joke. You don't need to spell the same thing out again, you need to make it clear what being stupid to stand with a an out of shape, has been boxer, actually means.

You keep hoping for the flash KO but then why say it's stupid for someone to stand with him when fact is Kimbo could smash this guy standing up let alone someone like Mirko or Pat Barry?


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## punchbag (Mar 1, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> If it was a stand up war could anyone in the HW division stand up with this guy? I know Cain has outstanding stand up but James Toney is heads and Heels above any Hw when it comes to stand up. Mentally wise I think most Hw will fight TOney standing and engage in a boxing match.


I think Toney is above any fighter at HW that uses almost purely boxing in their standup game, give him an Yvel,cro-cop,Cain Pat Barry type character there's a chance he could be in for a world of hurt, however if any fighter who predominently uses boxing in their standup game e.g Randy,Big Nog, Mir,Lesnar or Carwin etc chooses to stand with Toney they could be in some major trouble, not as if the guys who are strong all round strikers wouldn't, I just believe Toney has a massive advantage with these guys in particular for the obvious reasons.
I think for any fighter that is in the second category should not be macho, and take it to the ground "quickly", but as we all know, fighters will be fighters.
Make no mistakes, Toney may not be the boxer he once was, but standing, as Mercer showed recently, he can and will given opportunity make easy work of any half decent striker that chooses to stand with him.


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## punchbag (Mar 1, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> If it was a stand up war could anyone in the HW division stand up with this guy? I know Cain has outstanding stand up but James Toney is heads and Heels above any Hw when it comes to stand up. Mentally wise I think most Hw will fight TOney standing and engage in a boxing match.


I think Toney is above any fighter at HW that uses almost purely boxing in their standup game, give him an Yvel,cro-cop,Cain Pat Barry type character there's a chance he could be in for a world of hurt, however if any fighter who predominently uses boxing in their standup game e.g Randy,Big Nog, Mir,Lesnar or Carwin etc chooses to stand with Toney they could be in some major trouble, not as if the guys who are strong all round strikers wouldn't, I just believe Toney has a massive advantage with these guys in particular for the obvious reasons.
I think for any fighter that is in the second category should not be macho, and take it to the ground "quickly", but as we all know, fighters will be fighters.
Make no mistakes, Toney may not be the boxer he once was, but standing, as Mercer showed recently, he can and will given opportunity make easy work of any half decent striker that chooses to stand with him.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

osmium said:


> But stomp kicks are which is what I said.


Wow that dude has no idea what he's talking about. I mean the technique is ok, but it's certainly nothing to do with TKD it's a straight up Muay Thai push kick ... you can see the typical body mechanics of MT. 

There is no such kick in TKD. Also there is no such thing as a "stomp kick" ... googling it just brings up this guy's video. He just made that name up and it doesn't even make sense ... the dictionary definition of a stomp is "striking downwards using the heel".


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I'm pretty sure that Toney is standing in the octagon in a regular boxing stance, leaving his legs open for a quick and easy takedown, so i guess we won't see so much standing and trading.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

no because 90% of mixed martial artists don't know how to throw a punch


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## TLC (Apr 5, 2010)

Yes, especially considering Toney's age. Toney will probably get KO'd if he fights a top MMA striker.


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## rushStPierre (Nov 22, 2009)

alizio said:


> short answer, Yes.
> 
> long answer, Hell Yes.
> 
> ...



Wow, we got a bright one here on our hands fellas. 

First of all you comparing Ray Mercer to James Toney in caliber is re-fvckin-diculous. The guy has never won a legit title, just one of those NABF continental sh!tplaques while Toney is a multiple time world champion in different weight classes. In MMA terms its like this guy is comparing Anderson Silva to Thomasz Drvwal. On top of that Toney is 9years younger than Mercer. Huge difference in terms of class.

I personally think Toney has no chance if he gets taken down quickly which is what I expect Randy to do just for the fact his base is wrestling. Your point to express this however, is just completely ignorant and retarded.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

rushStPierre said:


> Wow, we got a bright one here on our hands fellas.
> 
> First of all you comparing Ray Mercer to James Toney in caliber is re-fvckin-diculous. The guy has never won a legit title, just one of those NABF continental sh!tplaques while Toney is a multiple time world champion in different weight classes. In MMA terms its like this guy is comparing Anderson Silva to Thomasz Drvwal. On top of that Toney is 9years younger than Mercer. Huge difference in terms of class.
> 
> I personally think Toney has no chance if he gets taken down quickly which is what I expect Randy to do just for the fact his base is wrestling. Your point to express this however, is just completely ignorant and retarded.


Not very nice to come in here calling people names. Especially when you don't know what you're talking about.
Mercer is 7 years older than toney. Mercer won the wbo heavy weight championship in '91 the same year toney won his first belt. the rest of your analasis is just as accurate.

Wow, we've got a bright one here fellas. Haha I see you went back and edited some of your stupidity. didn't help.


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## rushStPierre (Nov 22, 2009)

oldfan said:


> Not very nice to come in here calling people names. Especially when you don't know what you're talking about.
> Mercer is 7 years older than toney. Mercer won the wbo heavy weight championship in '91 the same year toney won his first belt. the rest of your analasis is just as accurate.
> 
> Wow, we've got a bright one here fellas. Haha I see you went back and edited some of your stupidity. didn't help.


Yea he only won a VACANT title against a drugged out Tommy Morrison then couldnt even defend his title once, getting UD'ed against a pre-historic version of Larry Holmes. You dont know anything about boxing, clearly. To think that makes Mercer world class is fckin retarded enough in itself. Boxing isnt like the UFC where there are only 5 divs that are all stacked. Titles havent meant shit for a long time. The best boxer on the planet now doesnt currently hold any of the titles, what does that tell you. 

So what is it that youre trying to prove? Mercer is comparable to Toney then? What a SMRT kid. I just love how some MMA guys cry about how boxing people are so ignorant about their sport yet they act the same way in reverse. If u think Mercer is in the same breath as Toney than u cant tell your c0ck from your thumb basically.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

> So what is it that youre trying to prove?


Oh, I wasn't trying to prove anything. Simply pointing out that you insult people then spew "facts" that are incorrect.

I have a lot of respect for what toney accomplished in boxing. I never liked him. Always bet against him. Lost a lot of money. He *WAS* pretty good. In mma today he's a joke but, that's beside the point. I wasn't knocking him I was knocking you.Guess you didn't get that.

I'm obviously not the boxing expert you are but I am a fan. I listened to the first ALI/FRAZIER fight live on the radio. what were you doing that night?


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

rushStPierre said:


> Yea he only won a VACANT title against a drugged out Tommy Morrison then couldnt even defend his title once, getting UD'ed against a pre-historic version of Larry Holmes. You dont know anything about boxing, clearly. To think that makes Mercer world class is fckin retarded enough in itself. Boxing isnt like the UFC where there are only 5 divs that are all stacked. Titles havent meant shit for a long time. The best boxer on the planet now doesnt currently hold any of the titles, what does that tell you.
> 
> So what is it that youre trying to prove? Mercer is comparable to Toney then? What a SMRT kid. I just love how some MMA guys cry about how boxing people are so ignorant about their sport yet they act the same way in reverse. If u think Mercer is in the same breath as Toney than u cant tell your c0ck from your thumb basically.


So,the best boxer in the world doesn't have a title, but to discredit Ray Mercer you made the point that he never had a belt of importance. Pretty spurious logic...belts sometimes matter, but other times don't. Which is it?

Mercer was a quality boxer. Not as talented as Toney, but a damn good boxer. Many feel that he beat a prime Lewis (or should at a minimum have been given a draw). Ray is also a real heavyweight, not a pumped up middleweight. Ray also has real power, Toney does not. Never had, never will.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> So,the best boxer in the world doesn't have a title, but to discredit Ray Mercer you made the point that he never had a belt of importance. Pretty spurious logic...belts sometimes matter, but other times don't. Which is it?
> 
> Mercer was a quality boxer. Not as talented as Toney, but a damn good boxer. Many feel that he beat a prime Lewis (or should at a minimum have been given a draw). Ray is also a real heavyweight, not a pumped up middleweight. Ray also has real power, Toney does not. Never had, never will.


toney doesn't need "REAL" power to knock someone out with 4oz gloves


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

guy incognito said:


> toney doesn't need "REAL" power to knock someone out with 4oz gloves


Yawn...


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Yawn...


hahaha......goodnight fellas


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## rushStPierre (Nov 22, 2009)

oldfan said:


> Oh, I wasn't trying to prove anything. Simply pointing out that you insult people then spew "facts" that are incorrect.
> 
> I have a lot of respect for what toney accomplished in boxing. I never liked him. Always bet against him. Lost a lot of money. He *WAS* pretty good. In mma today he's a joke but, that's beside the point. I wasn't knocking him I was knocking you.Guess you didn't get that.
> 
> *I'm obviously not the boxing expert you are but I am a fan. I listened to the first ALI/FRAZIER fight live on the radio. what were you doing that night*?


So was my grandma, that doesnt change the fact she doesnt know Roy Jones JR from James Earl Jones


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

toney will ko anyone who try's to stand with him because 90% of mixed martial artist's throw punches like two 5yo's fighting over a toy


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## rushStPierre (Nov 22, 2009)

Mr. Sparkle said:


> So,the best boxer in the world doesn't have a title, but to discredit Ray Mercer you made the point that he never had a belt of importance. Pretty spurious logic...belts sometimes matter, but other times don't. Which is it?
> 
> Mercer was a quality boxer. Not as talented as Toney, but a damn good boxer. Many feel that he beat a prime Lewis (or should at a minimum have been given a draw). Ray is also a real heavyweight, not a pumped up middleweight. Ray also has real power, Toney does not. Never had, never will.


I clearly was pointing out its WHO YOU BEAT. Hence the UD loss to an ancient Larry Holmes. But nice try.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

rushStPierre said:


> So was my grandma, that doesnt change the fact she doesnt know Roy Jones JR from James Earl Jones


ouch. gee whiz even us old folks know that one. One of 'em was in starwars and the other in the matrix right? neither one of 'em can sing as good as Tom.

what your poor grandma doesn't know is how to teach you any manners.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

oldfan said:


> One of 'em was in starwars and the other in the matrix right? neither one of 'em can sing as good as Tom.


i lol'd


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## Johnni G (Dec 2, 2009)

Fedor


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

rushStPierre said:


> Yea he only won a VACANT title against a drugged out Tommy Morrison then couldnt even defend his title once, getting UD'ed against a pre-historic version of Larry Holmes. You dont know anything about boxing, clearly. To think that makes Mercer world class is fckin retarded enough in itself. Boxing isnt like the UFC where there are only 5 divs that are all stacked. Titles havent meant shit for a long time. The best boxer on the planet now doesnt currently hold any of the titles, what does that tell you.
> 
> So what is it that youre trying to prove? Mercer is comparable to Toney then? What a SMRT kid. I just love how some MMA guys cry about how boxing people are so ignorant about their sport yet they act the same way in reverse. If u think Mercer is in the same breath as Toney than u cant tell your c0ck from your thumb basically.


What are you talkin about? Pac-Man is the Welterweight champ, and he holds the title even MORE prestigious, hes the best in the world pound for pound.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

guy incognito said:


> toney will ko anyone who try's to stand with him because 90% of mixed martial artist's throw punches like two 5yo's fighting over a toy



I cannot remember the last time I disagreed with something more. I can count with just my two hands the number of mid/top tier fighters who lack striking fundamentals. I would guess the ratio is the other way around. 

Do I think he has inferior striking to an MMA fighter? I think that is a vague question. Do I think he could mentally recover from a roundhouse swinging for his head? Not at all. If he manages to defend it, he'd become very passive and skittish, just like every other boxer who fights an MMA fighter and eats a kick. He won't be able to handle any kind of kick IMO. His boxing credentials have been thrown around like crazy...but how exactly is being a champion in BOXING going to help his defend a kick to any part of his anatomy? There is a helluva lot more to striking than jab, cross, hook, uppercut. 

As for his takedown ability, and TDD ability, that has been enumerated by many others enough times. That horse has been dead for weeks!


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## Aiken (May 3, 2010)

*Lights Out?*

Has anyone actually taken a look at Toney's recent fight record? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Toney

The last time he finished a *rated* opponent was Holyfield back in 2003. Can a current UFC/MMA heavyweight stand with him - hell yes.

I think that Dana made a mistake though - he should have insisted that Toney fight at LHW - allowing him to fight at HW while only being 5'9" (seriously) is just asking for him to turn up looking like Butterbean...

Thanks


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## Mr. Sparkle (Nov 3, 2009)

Aiken said:


> Has anyone actually taken a look at Toney's recent fight record?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Toney
> 
> ...


Actually, Evander's corner threw in the towel. Evander was already shot by the time he fought Toney. So, Toney really hasn't finished any rated HW opponent (no, not Rahman, it was a headbutt). But hey, those 4 ounce gloves will turn him into a punching phenom, right. Oh wait, his opponents will be wearing the same gloves too, right? Oh well, I am sure he has wicked TDD, can block leg kicks and has an excellent guard.


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

you can not train yourself to have a good chin; that just comes natural

just because someone isn't a boxer doesn't mean they aren't going to be able to take a punch from a boxer.


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

Can they stand with Toney? Yes.

Can they box with Toney? Absolutely not. There is a reason most MMA fighters who are primarily boxers are in MMA, because they'd get killed in boxing.

That said, add kicks, knees, clinch and all that good shit, Toney is a sitting duck. But if anyone is stupid enough to just trade punches with him, they'll be destroyed.


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