# Should Machida be cut?



## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

Let'e realistically look at the situation at hand. You have a former champ that has lost 3 of his last 4 fights (hell you could honesty say he lost 4 of his last 5 fights because Shogun obviously should have won the first fight) and the one he won was more so a gimme because of Couture's final request....

He was brutally knocked out
He was outstruck
He was brutally put to sleep

Thoughts


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

Bscoop09 said:


> Let'e realistically look at the situation at hand. You have a former champ that has lost 3 of his last 4 fights (hell you could honesty say he lost 4 of his last 5 fights because Shogun obviously should have won the first fight) and the one he won was more so a gimme because of Couture's final request....
> 
> He was brutally knocked out
> He was outstruck
> ...


My thoughts are he fought 3 of the top 5-6 in the world consecutively.

Shogun vs Machida 1 was very close. Machida almost took Page out in the 3rd round. Got caught vs Shogun in fight 2. Who hasn't Jones finished recently?


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## mo25 (Feb 7, 2011)

Bscoop09 said:


> Thoughts



You're an idiot.


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

Mirage445 said:


> My thoughts are he fought 3 of the top 5-6 in the world consecutively.
> 
> Shogun vs Machida 1 was very close. Machida almost took Page out in the 3rd round. Got caught vs Shogun in fight 2. Who hasn't Jones finished recently?


Not speaking on the abilities of Jones, just the fact that the former champ is having a major decline in his last 3 fights


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

mo25 said:


> You're an idiot.


Opinions are like assholes...everyone has one...but thanks for the feedback friend!


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

Bscoop09 said:


> Not speaking on the abilities of Jones, just the fact that the former champ is having a major decline in his last 3 fights


Maybe Machida just isn't top 5 material.

Then again he decimated the current no 1 contender.


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

Mirage445 said:


> Maybe Machida just isn't top 5 material.
> 
> Then again he decimated the current no 1 contender.


Truth.com

But that same no 1 contender is on a 3 fight win streak over top 10 opposition


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Dumbest thread of 2011 award right here.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

mo25 said:


> You're an idiot.


that about sums it up. Hell lets just cut everyone after loosing a title fight why not.

2 of his ONLY 3 career losses where title fights.

The Loss against Rampage was in many peoples view a bad decision, I am one of those people who believe that Machida deserved the victory in that fight.

So lets see should Machida be cut hmmmm my thoughts.....

Yep "YOUR AN IDIOT" thats my thoughts exactly.


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## fightfan76 (Sep 29, 2011)

mo25 said:


> You're an idiot.


lmao, yeah lets cut him coming off of a title shot against a guy who has dominated everyone he has faced the last couple years.....

Machida is still top 3 at worst at LHW; I personally believe he would beat Rashad again and beat Rampage in a rematch. Also, he probably has the best chance to beat JBJ even though it didnt turn out very good for him last night. Before he got taken down and his forehead gashed open he was doing better than anyone ever has.....


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## Randomhero FTW (Aug 29, 2010)

Bscoop09 said:


> Opinions are like assholes...everyone has one...but thanks for the feedback friend!


I'd say it's the truth. Only a moron would suggest that Machida should be cut at this point. This coming from a guy who was cheering the loudest when his body fell lifeless to the mat.


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

AmdM said:


> Dumbest thread of 2011 award right here.


I can understand your resentment to this thread because of the obvious, but I think you fail to see the point I'm actually making....

But if my favorite fighter was destroyed the way he was I'd be upset too...


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## Mocacho (Jan 2, 2008)

You need to get cut for asking something so ignorant.


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

Randomhero FTW said:


> I'd say it's the truth. Only a moron would suggest that Machida should be cut at this point. This coming from a guy who was cheering the loudest when his body fell lifeless to the mat.


Dana White was going to cut Machida for less so how isn't this resonable?


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

This thread is tragic. Machida was scary last night, Jones did land a good shot before the submission, but the submission itself was a classic big man choke.

Jones did what he had to do, and props to him because he was getting tooled, but Lyoto looked fantastic last night and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought Jones was in trouble after that first round.

Hopefully Machida carries on as normal and doesn't look at this as a career-deciding fight, god help his next opponent.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

No he's one of the best LHW's in the world right now. I would favor him against anyone not named Jon Jones.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Machida is a top ranked fighter.

He's done the best against Jones so far, better than anyone Jones has faced (champ level Jones, not UFC entry level Jones).

Machida is 1-3 right now, but those 3 are against Shogun (a guy he beat previously and lost his title to), Rampage (a very close fight that many think he won), and Jones, which has dominated everyone and Machida gave him his best fight.

Machida won't be cut for a long, long time.

Also, relax on the whole "idiot" comments, it's his opinion, be civil even if you disagree with it.


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

Mocacho said:


> You need to get cut for asking something so ignorant.


It seems like a lot of people are upset here....Other people can make threads about how arrogant and cocky Jones is but when I ask a decent question in a thread its complete stupidity



KillerShark1985 said:


> that about sums it up. Hell lets just cut everyone after loosing a title fight why not.
> 
> 2 of his ONLY 3 career losses where title fights.
> 
> ...


In many peoples view the win agaisnt Shogun wasn't deserved...hell even Machida looked as if he knew he didn't win....So what are you saying?


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## Randomhero FTW (Aug 29, 2010)

Bscoop09 said:


> It seems like a lot of people are upset here....Other people can make threads about how arrogant and cocky Jones is but when I ask a decent question in a thread its complete stupidity



Just give it up already. You've got fans on both sides telling you how moronic this thread is, yet you continue to argue it's legitimacy. Save yourself further embarassment and let this thread die.


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

fightfan76 said:


> lmao, yeah lets cut him coming off of a title shot against a guy who has dominated everyone he has faced the last couple years.....
> 
> *Machida is still top 3 at worst at LHW;* I personally believe he would beat Rashad again and beat Rampage in a rematch. Also, he probably has the best chance to beat JBJ even though it didnt turn out very good for him last night. Before he got taken down and his forehead gashed open he was doing better than anyone ever has.....


Honestly how can you make that assessment?

He hasn't looked impressive in his last few fights except against an aging Randy

How does he has the best chance against Jones when he was just devasted agasint him.....Machida landed one solid shot in the first round ammid a bunch of dancing


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

People who say he lost the first Shogun fight and the Rampage fight are laughable.

And no, he's not going to be cut, he's one of the best Light Heavyweights in the world? Can he beat Jon Jones? No but neither can Shogun and Rampage, he's still got a lot of good fights he can have at 205. He's took very little damage in his career up until the last two years and even then only Shogun and Jones really did any damage to him, he could fight until he's in his late 30's if he chooses.


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

Randomhero FTW said:


> Just give it up already. You've got fans on both sides telling you how moronic this thread is, yet you continue to argue it's legitimacy. Save yourself further embarassment and let this thread die.


Further embarassment? Why would I be embarrassed? I am asking a legitimate question and I'm only receiving hate?


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

M.C said:


> Machida is a top ranked fighter.
> 
> He's done the best against Jones so far, better than anyone Jones has faced (champ level Jones, not UFC entry level Jones).
> 
> ...


I really don't understand it but I can chalk that up to immaturity....I haven't come in here and bashed Machida like I could have I asked a simple question looking for reasonable answers....

Thank you for responding also


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> *People who say he lost the first Shogun fight and the Rampage fight are laughable*.
> 
> And no, he's not going to be cut, he's one of the best Light Heavyweights in the world? Can he beat Jon Jones? No but neither can Shogun and Rampage, he's still got a lot of good fights he can have at 205. He's took very little damage in his career up until the last two years and even then only Shogun and Jones really did any damage to him, he could fight until he's in his late 30's if he chooses.


How it was one of the most controversial decisions of that year? Top critics and fighters were saying Machida lost, and Im sure they have more insight on the sport than you do


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## Thane (Dec 9, 2011)

Machida isnt top 5?? Should he be cut? I honestly think this is quite a dumb topic. Why because he lost 3 of his lost 4? I couldnt care what anyone says Machida beat Rampage 2-1 end of. Machida is probably one of the Best Light Heavy Weights of all time. The amount of big names he has beat, lost to and all of a sudden someone sparks the topic should he be cut? Open your eyes buddy.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Bscoop09 said:


> How it was one of the most controversial decisions of that year? Top critics and fighters were saying Machida lost, and Im sure they have more insight on the sport than you do


What I meant by that was people who say he lost the first Shogun fight say this based on the fact Shogun did more damage. If you believe Shogun won the first fight based on that how can you say Machida lost the Rampage fight when it was Machida who did more damage in the Rampage fight?

Rampage won their fight by pretty much controlling the Octagon and the grappling which is what Machida did in the first Shogun fight. People who say he lost both fights are not consistent is what I'm getting at.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Bscoop09 said:


> It seems like a lot of people are upset here....Other people can make threads about how arrogant and cocky Jones is but when I ask a decent question in a thread its complete stupidity
> 
> 
> 
> In many peoples view the win agaisnt Shogun wasn't deserved...hell even Machida looked as if he knew he didn't win....So what are you saying?


thats true, but if Shogun had been given the victory against Machida in the first fight then the second fight woudl probably have never took place, so in this case its a little unfair to count this as 2 losses, it is what it is a loss to Shogun nothing more, the second fight simply correcting a wrong from the first fight which was a much closer fight than many give credit for.

hence had this have been the case and the decision given to Shogun in the first fight your first post would or at least should read.

Lost a close decision to Shogun
(you missed the point here that it was a title fight)

Lost a close decision to Rampage
(The decision was split so even one of the judges here gives everyone who thinks Machida deserved the win some credit)

Knocked out Couture in spectacular highlight reel fashion winning KO of the night
(a point that you conveniently decided to ignore in your argument why he should be cut)

Was submitted by Jones
(again you missed the the point again that this was a title fight against arguably the most in form fighter in the world of MMA right now)

So to be fair any argument that Machida should be cut based on his current run holds very little in fact no credit at all.


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

Thane said:


> Machida isnt top 5?? Should he be cut? I honestly think this is quite a dumb topic. Why because he lost 3 of his lost 4? I couldnt care what anyone says Machida beat Rampage 2-1 end of. Machida is probably one of the Best Light Heavy Weights of all time. The amount of big names he has beat, *lost to *and all of a sudden someone sparks the topic should he be cut? Open your eyes buddy.


I think you are missing the big picture...he hasn't faired well against top competition in a long time outside of an aging randy...I think your eyes need to be open


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

KillerShark1985 said:


> thats true, but if Shogun had been given the victory against Machida in the first fight then the second fight woudl probably have never took place, so in this case its a little unfair to count this as 2 losses, it is what it is a loss to Shogun nothing more, the second fight simply correcting a wrong from the first fight which was a much closer fight than many give credit for.
> 
> hence had this have been the case and the decision given to Shogun in the first fight your first post would or at least should read.
> 
> ...


1. I did note his spectular finish agaisnt Randy but I also noted that Randy hasn't been a top 10 lhw in years...

2. You bring up an irrelevant point with had Machida lost...that doesn't make much sense because if he had of lost his downward spiral would have occured sooner

3. Regardlesso who he faces the UFC releases fighters over lesser espically with Machida's past of being Jon Fitch-esq

Any more points you chose to bring up you can look back in the previous post because I addressed them


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## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

LOL, is this for real? No! Absolutely not; machida shouldn't be cut. Lost to former champs and current champ. The guy is still up there and was the first to pose a challenge to Jones. Why would you even ask?


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## fightfan76 (Sep 29, 2011)

Bscoop09 said:


> Honestly how can you make that assessment?
> 
> He hasn't looked impressive in his last few fights except against an aging Randy
> 
> *How does he has the best chance against Jones when he was just devasted agasint him*.....Machida landed one solid shot in the first round ammid a bunch of dancing


I said despite how the fight ended he did better against Jones then anyone up until the end. I specifically worded it that way to avoid this response but then again you did start this thread so I am not surprised.....:sarcastic09:


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

SerJ said:


> LOL, is this for real? No! Absolutely not; machida shouldn't be cut. Lost to former champs and current champ. The guy is still up there and was the first to pose a challenge to Jones. Why would you even ask?


First to pose a threat? Because Machida had one solid hit and didn't do much else beside back peddle? Name one time outside of that 1-2 combo (where one shot landed) that he had Jones in trouble...

Rampage was more of a threat to Jones because Jones did not want to exchange with him where as he was sitting in the pocket waiting for Machida in the 2nd round


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Bscoop09 said:


> 1. I did note his spectular finish agaisnt Randy but I also noted that Randy hasn't been a top 10 lhw in years...
> 
> 2. You bring up an irrelevant point with had Machida lost...that doesn't make much sense because if he had of lost his downward spiral would have occured sooner
> 
> ...


well why not put up a poll and see how many MMA fans think he should be cut and see what kind of one sided response you get, would do it myself except I already know what the outcome will be, its obvious Machida does not deserve to be cut and there is no doubt in my mind this opinion would be reflected by an overwhelming number of fans and by the UFC themselves when they dont cut him.

In fact change that poll to "who wants to see Machida fight in the UFC again" hell why not that would be a great question in fact, not does he deserve to be cut (to which the answer is no) but "Who wants to watch him fight in the UFC again" we pay to watch these fights right, so how about the UFC give us some fighters we want to see, and if a overwhelming majority of the paying fans want to see Machida fight again does that not give some credit to the decision I have no doubt the UFC will make when they keep him, seriously I bet the idea of cutting him right now is so ridiculous that its not even been given a second thought in the UFC board room if it has even been given any thought at all.


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

fightfan76 said:


> I said despite how the fight ended he did better against Jones then anyone up until the end. I specifically worded it that way to avoid this response but then again you did start this thread so I am not surprised.....:sarcastic09:


How did Machida look better against Jones than anybody when Machida only landed one solid shot that more or less put Jones off balance?

I thinks maybe you should rewatch the fight and determine what is actually reality and not what you thought you saw because you sound like this is your first time watching MMA


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

*I dont care if you dont like the op's opinion or the question he asked it gives you no right to post insults towards him. if you cant post in this thread with maturity then feel free to leave this thread and find a different one where you can post with decency. there will be no more warnings handed out for a member of staff has already warned you on the other page of this thread.*

------------

To the OP: 

its actually a decent question with him losing 3 of the last 4 fights but the answer is still no, he lost to high level opponents in fights that were pretty close but that is not even the most important thing, which would be that he goes out there and tries his best every time e steps into the cage and dana has said many times before that above all else that is what he looks for in a fighter. 

with that being said if this was a different fighter with a different mindset and fight style with the same record the outcome might be different, but as long as machida keeps fighting the best he can ever time trying to finish his opponents, he will be here for a while to come.

The reason that you are getting so much flack from the members on here is anytime a fighter loses we get one or two of these threads popping up so they are doing the automatic reaction which is not deserved in this case for the record of the fighter warrants the question you asked


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

KillerShark1985 said:


> well why not put up a poll and see how many MMA fans think he should be cut and see what kind of one sided response you get, would do it myself except I already know what the outcome will be, its obvious Machida does not deserve to be cut and there is no doubt in my mind this opinion would be reflected by an overwhelming number of fans and by the UFC themselves when they dont cut him.
> 
> In fact change that poll to "who wants to see Machida fight in the UFC again" hell why not that would be a great question in fact, not does he deserve to be cut (to which the answer is no) but "Who wants to watch him fight in the UFC again" we pay to watch these fights right, *so how about the UFC give us some fighters we want to see, and if a overwhelming majority of the paying fans want to see Machida fight again does that not give some credit to the decision *I have no doubt the UFC will make when they keep him, seriously I bet the idea of cutting him right now is so ridiculous that its not even been given a second thought in the UFC board room if it has even been given any thought at all.


Hell an OVERWHELMING majority of paying fans want to see Chuck Liddell still fight....People still want to see an aging and winless Tito still fight....does this negate your argument?


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## fightfan76 (Sep 29, 2011)

Bscoop09 said:


> How did Machida look better against Jones than anybody when Machida only landed one solid shot that more or less put Jones off balance?
> 
> I thinks maybe you should rewatch the fight and determine what is actually reality and not what you thought you saw because *you sound like this is your first time watching MMA*


If you think Machida should be cut coming off of a title shot then you sound like this is your 1st time watching MMA. I believe this is the most uncomfortable JBJ has looked in the octagon period, he did not throw Machida around like he has everybody else until the very end.....


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

Bscoop09 said:


> How did Machida look better against Jones than anybody when Machida only landed one solid shot that more or less put Jones off balance?
> 
> I thinks maybe you should rewatch the fight and determine what is actually reality and not what you thought you saw because you sound like this is your first time watching MMA


i guess i must be a new fan watching mma for the first time to for i thought machida was doing great against him in the first round and also thought e won that first round. 

this was the first fight that after the first min and a half i was not going this is gunna be all jones but instead was going damn machida could win this if he plays it smart


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

M_D said:


> *I dont care if you dont like the op's opinion or the question he asked it gives you no right to post insults towards him. if you cant post in this thread with maturity then feel free to leave this thread and find a different one where you can post with decency. there will be no more warnings handed out for a member of staff has already warned you on the other page of this thread.*
> 
> ------------
> 
> ...


First thank you for the respect, I just wanted a simple question discussed

Secondly, I wasn't aware most threads were created after said fighter loses....even being here as long as I have....

Thirdly, before Chuck Liddell lost to Rampage he was considered a top lhw and after he lost that fight and his fight with Jardine people were talkign about him being cut. So why is this a problem now?


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## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

Although I know I'll get flamed for it I agree with the OP. Machida is in danger of being cut. I said it after the Rampage loss and I will say it again,now he's lost 3 of his last four and realistically lost 4 of his last 5 fights. One more and he might as well send his resume to Bellator.


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

Bscoop09 said:


> First thank you for the respect, I just wanted a simple question discussed
> 
> Secondly, I wasn't aware most threads were created after said fighter loses....even being here as long as I have....
> 
> Thirdly, before Chuck Liddell lost to Rampage he was considered a top lhw and after he lost that fight and his fight with Jardine people were talkign about him being cut. So why is this a problem now?


yeah it happens allot most of the time they are deleted for they get out of hand, there has actually been not that many fighters tat i can think of that a thread has not been made saying that they should be cut or retire 

onto your third part i am not the people complaining so i cant say for certainty one way or another why there is a problem but i can venture to guess that it has to do with him going out there and doing his best everytime and the fact that the fight he just lost was for the title, usually if you just fought for the title and you lose to the champ you are not cut right away.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Bscoop09 said:


> Hell an OVERWHELMING majority of paying fans want to see Chuck Liddell still fight....People still want to see an aging and winless Tito still fight....does this negate your argument?


So your comparing fighters who are in there retirement years have done all there is to do in the sport, who where given endless chance to come back and after making the hall of fame to revive there careers against far lesser quality of opponents that what Machida has faced in his recent spell competing at the very top level of the sport, to a guy who only has only competed at the very top level over the last few years, is still in peak condition, has no suffered through injury and has only recently tasted his first set of defeat.

Also how does cutting Machida help improve the LHW division, what is the benefit of it, how does it improve development opposition in the division, if nothing else surly you can see the sense of keeping him as a stepping stone on the ladder to the top for other future fighters wanting to climb the ranks to overcome, or dont you believe in title runs in order for guys to win the chance to fight for titles?


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

KillerShark1985 said:


> So your comparing fighters who are in there retirement years have done all there is to do in the sport, who where given endless chance to come back and after making the hall of fame to revive there careers against far lesser quality of opponents that what Machida has faced in his recent spell competing at the very top level of the sport, to a guy who only has only competed at the very top level over the last few years, is still in peak condition, has no suffered through injury and has only recently tasted his first set of defeat.
> 
> *Also how does cutting Machida help improve the LHW division, what is the benefit of it,* how does it improve development opposition in the division, if nothing else surly you can see the sense of keeping him as a stepping stone on the ladder to the top for other future fighters wanting to climb the ranks to overcome, or dont you believe in title runs in order for guys to win the chance to fight for titles?


I have to take time to ponder on this question....great response



Wookie said:


> Although I know I'll get flamed for it I agree with the OP. Machida is in danger of being cut. I said it after the Rampage loss and I will say it again,now he's lost 3 of his last four and realistically lost 4 of his last 5 fights. One more and he might as well send his resume to Bellator.


Its a legitimate question...thank you for considering the question


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## fightfan76 (Sep 29, 2011)

I personally believe the only LHWs who have a chance to beat Machida are JBJ(obviously), Shogun(would be close in rubber match), Rampage(dont think we would again), and Rashad(I think he would lose again), just a bad match-up stylistically for Evans. Thats the only 4 I can think of, not saying there is not more but I just dont see it. Based on that alone, I say he shouldnt be cut.....


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I say no. Machida is still one of the best 205 lbs fighters out there and arguably won the 1st round against Jones.

I'd be shocked if he didn't finish his career in the UFC.


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## OrionTC (Sep 6, 2011)

not in a million years. no one in the top 10 should be cut. 

machida is arguebly top 5

he has the karate gimmick to keep him going.

also one of my fav fighters to watch


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

KillerShark1985 said:


> So your comparing fighters who are in there retirement years have done all there is to do in the sport, who where given endless chance to come back and after making the hall of fame to revive there careers against far lesser quality of opponents that what Machida has faced in his recent spell competing at the very top level of the sport, to a guy who only has only competed at the very top level over the last few years, is still in peak condition, has no suffered through injury and has only recently tasted his first set of defeat.
> 
> *Also how does cutting Machida help improve the LHW division, what is the benefit of it, how does it improve development opposition in the division,* if nothing else surly you can see the sense of keeping him as a stepping stone on the ladder to the top for other future fighters wanting to climb the ranks to overcome, or dont you believe in title runs in order for guys to win the chance to fight for titles?


Lol, Im back....What benefit does it have to keep in a division where his role would turn into a gate keeper? He has faced top competition and has not fared well, more people are figuring out his style of combat and arent necessarily disposing of them easily but how much does this tarnish his legacy-



fightfan76 said:


> I personally believe the only LHWs who have a chance to beat Machida are JBJ(obviously), Shogun(would be close in rubber match), Rampage(dont think we would again), and Rashad(I think he would lose again), just a bad match-up stylistically for Evans. Thats the only 4 I can think of, not saying there is not more but I just dont see it. Based on that alone, I say he shouldnt be cut.....


What about Dangerous Dan?
Phil Davis


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## BodyHead (Nov 29, 2011)

Not even a Machida fan here, but no.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Bscoop, please use the "edit" button if you wish to add more to your post, I've had to merge 2-3 double posts from you and double posting isn't allowed.

Thanks.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

I say Bscoop09 wins this thread! Nice to see a new member that doesn't stoop to baiting and insults when he's subject to the same things himself - for that I commend you sir, and all the "you're an idiot" comments, come on, really?

As for Machida being cut, I see your point, but I don't see it happening.

Having lost 3 of 4 is not good, but taking into account the level of competition he's faced and that he's still (arguably) a top 5 LHW - he isn't going anywhere


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## fightfan76 (Sep 29, 2011)

Bscoop09 said:


> Lol, Im back....What benefit does it have to keep in a division where his role would turn into a gate keeper? He has faced top competition and has not fared well, more people are figuring out his style of combat and arent necessarily disposing of them easily but how much does this tarnish his legacy-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I say no, both legit fighters, but IMHO Machida's style would give them both many problems.....


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Bscoop09 said:


> Lol, Im back....What benefit does it have to keep in a division where his role would turn into a gate keeper? He has faced top competition and has not fared well, more people are figuring out his style of combat and arent necessarily disposing of them easily but how much does this tarnish his legacy-


been a gate keeper is a beneficial role to the division in its own right, every division needs then and has multiple ones at different levels throughout the division, some to make your way off the prelims, so some keep your place in the UFC, some to pass you into the level from hot prospect to true title contender (which is where Machida stands right now). take away those guys and you have no division, you have no show even and the sport loses all its credibility and you are lest with nothing more than picking bums of the street to go fight your champion in the cage.

Last been said on the subject is that cutting Machida would be a terrible move on the part of the UFC, there is nothing to gain from it, the LHW division has lost to many top tire fighters over recent years and not had enough come through to replace the loses it has suffered so cutting one of its top level fighetrs who is still in peak condition, who many feel is exciting to watch and enjoy watching, who has a huge cult fan base of hardcore fans, is the last think they want to do right now.

They should be looking at bringing in more fighters on Machidas level because that what the division needs more right now, there are not enough fighters in the LHW division of the UFC right now that can make the top level interesting, cutting one of the top guys in that area would just have a negative impact in more ways than one in what is already a division that has suffered huge losses over recent years.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Fighters should not be cut after fighting only the best??? That kind of sht never made sense to me. You keep worse fighters around but since they fight lvl B fighters they dont lose. But you cut a guy who constantly fights A lvl fighters and only A lvl fighters??? Give him a fight with some worse competition and lets see if he loses then. If he does then we can consider cutting him.


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## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

No, no and no.
Im not even close to a Michada fan but its just crazy to even consider cutting him.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Yea, let's cut the only guy to make Jones look human for a round.


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> Fighters should not be cut after fighting only the best??? That kind of sht never made sense to me. You keep worse fighters around but since they fight lvl B fighters they dont lose. But you cut a guy who constantly fights A lvl fighters and only A lvl fighters??? Give him a fight with some worse competition and lets see if he loses then. If he does then we can consider cutting him.


Prolly will get negged for this but Keith Jardine (at the time was facing Lvl A competition despite behing a b or c class fighter and he was cut



MikeHawk said:


> Yea, let's cut the only guy to make Jones look human for a round.


So 1 round dictates his last 3 of 5 fights?


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Bscoop, as I said, there's an "edit" button right next to the quote button, use the edit button on your post if you wish to add to it.

Don't make 2 posts one right after another, it's not allowed.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Bscoop09 said:


> So 1 round dictates his last 3 of 5 fights?


Nothing wrong with the performances IMO. A lot of ppl feel he won the Page fight and did a great job against Jon before etting finished.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Bscoop09 said:


> Prolly will get negged for this but Keith Jardine (at the time was facing Lvl A competition despite behing a b or c class fighter and he was cut


His last 3 fights in the UFC were not against A level competition. He was a mid tier fighter, fighting mid tier talent and couldn't hang so he got cut.

He was fighting top tier fighters before that, though.



Bscoop09 said:


> So 1 round dictates his last 3 of 5 fights?


What fights are you talking about? He looked good in his loss to Jones. He crane kicked Randy for a highlight reel KO. And was in a competitive fight with Rampage, that if it went 5 rounds, he would've won (IMO).


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

Rauno said:


> Nothing wrong with the performances IMO. A lot of ppl feel he won the Page fight and did a great job against Jon before etting finished.


To be completely honest I felt that Machida had won the Rampage fight...but the fact remains that he lost the fight and still is 1-3 in his last four fights

This is just a decision I think the UFC needs to consider, if you take the entire history of Machida and the UFC into account


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

MikeHawk said:


> Yea, let's cut the only guy to make Jones look human for a round.


no point even arguing with this guy, he is determined that every other fan is wrong and that the UFC is wrong, as he stands alone on the "CUT Machida" bandwagon.

hows that wagon going anyway, does not look from here like its going to get passed the start line before the "WAR Macihda" bandwagon bombs down that mother fcuker


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

Bscoop09 said:


> To be completely honest I felt that Machida had won the Rampage fight...but the fact remains that he lost the fight and still is 1-3 in his last four fights
> 
> This is just a decision I think the UFC needs to consider, if you take the entire history of Machida and the UFC into account


If you can tell me how cutting one of your top 5 fighters in the division makes sense, I'll agree with you. Irregardless of his current record and standing with the UFC.


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## Bscoop09 (Oct 15, 2006)

KillerShark1985 said:


> no point even arguing with this guy, he is determined that every other fan is wrong and that the UFC is wrong, as he stands alone on the "CUT Machida" bandwagon.
> 
> hows that wagon going anyway, does not look from here like its going to get passed the start line before the "WAR Macihda" bandwagon bombs down that mother fcuker


Lol your completely wrong,Im looking for a valid arguement as to why Machida is still a fighter worth vying for in the UFC...he has already pissed off the UFC Brass by asking for "Anderson Silva Money" and not taking fights when asked by the UFC. Not sure why no one is takign this air of arrogance into account yet we'll hang and beat Jones for something lesser


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Bscoop09 said:


> *Prolly will get negged for this but Keith Jardine (at the time was facing Lvl A competition despite behing a b or c class fighter and he was cut
> *
> 
> 
> So 1 round dictates his last 3 of 5 fights?


Why would you get negged for this??


But TBH you are wrong.

Keiths Losses are to

Houston Alexander
Wanderlei Silva
Quinton Jackson
Thiago Silva
Ryan Bader
Matt Hamill

Only Rampage is for sure an A level fighter. Wanderlei too... maybe. (His chin makes me question if he can keep up with A level fighters.)

So Keith actually lost to alot of B level fighters and lost in brutal fashion.

But i will agree that Keith Jardine is the one fighter that was asked to fight people above his skill level often.

Forrest,Chuck,Quinton,Thiago.... not sure if he deserved to fight any of them.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Bscoop09 said:


> To be completely honest I felt that Machida had won the Rampage fight...but the fact remains that he lost the fight and still is 1-3 in his last four fights
> 
> This is just a decision I think the UFC needs to consider, if you take the entire history of Machida and the UFC into account


Either way i don't see them ever cutting Machida and i'm confident he'll win his next fight.


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## Suarez-PSL (Mar 16, 2011)

The man has only lost 3 fights of a 20 fight carrer. Just because they were all recent and agianst top tier guys (minus rampage)is no reason to cut him or discount him as a top contender.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Bscoop09 said:


> Lol your completely wrong,Im looking for a valid arguement as to why Machida is still a fighter worth vying for in the UFC...he has already pissed off the UFC Brass by asking for "Anderson Silva Money" and not taking fights when asked by the UFC. Not sure why no one is takign this air of arrogance into account yet we'll hang and beat Jones for something lesser


I see so trying to negotiate a better deal for yourself is a cutable offence now in the UFC, and the UFC should only keep fighters that blow down to any command to fight anyone any time despite any personal issues aside like not been given time for a proper training camp or been 100% healthy to fight, so should all that be blown out of the fighters hands and be left up to the UFC to decide when your fit to fight and at how short notice.


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## StandThemUp (May 30, 2008)

He was cut, brutally in the 2nd round.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

A little insight for the OP...The UFC bought out an organization years back to aquire just 2 fighter contracts. Rampage Jackson and Lyoto Machida. They sought out his talent and it has paid off pretty well.

Machida's popularity is quite high, he had an undefeated title-run, he's given some of the greatest fights/highlight reel material in victory AND defeat.

Machida has lost 3 times, twice in title fights, and once due to a split decision in his first fight after his first loss and it was a vicious KO loss. While Machida's losses are brutal, I believe it just proves his warrior spirit even more.

Dude went out on his shield against shogun and he wasn't lying when he said he would die but he wouldn't tap. He's a top 5 LHW who poses problems to ANYONE in the division. He might not win all the fights from here on out, but he'll make it interesting. 

The UFC has invested to much into Machida to cut him at this point. it's not even warranted. If Machida had lost to Couture I still doubt they would have cut him.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> *A little insight for the OP...The UFC bought out an organization years back to aquire just 2 fighter contracts.* Rampage Jackson and Lyoto Machida. They sought out his talent and it has paid off pretty well.
> 
> Machida's popularity is quite high, he had an undefeated title-run, he's given some of the greatest fights/highlight reel material in victory AND defeat.
> 
> ...


Where did you hear this?


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Bscoop09 said:


> Let'e realistically look at the situation at hand. You have a former champ that has lost 3 of his last 4 fights (hell you could honesty say he lost 4 of his last 5 fights because Shogun obviously should have won the first fight) and the one he won was more so a gimme because of Couture's final request....
> 
> He was brutally knocked out
> He was outstruck
> ...


(My thoughts)



Machida did more that first round then any fighter that fought JBJ in his last like 6 fights (if not all of them)... And he is getting better and better and Machida was still able to Come and win that first round imo, and if he did win that first round with the judges its probably the only round JBJ ever lost...


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> A little insight for the OP...The UFC bought out an organization years back to aquire just 2 fighter contracts. Rampage Jackson and Lyoto Machida.


Rampage and Machida were the two fighters WFA was promoting hard since they held wins over Chuck and Franklin, who were UFC champs at the time. But to be fair, they also got Urijah Faber, Martin Kampmann, Rob McCullough, Heath Herring and a few others.


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## astrallite (Mar 14, 2010)

Machida getting cut? Is Tito Ortiz still on the roster? There's your answer.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

This post has to be the dumbest shit ever and can't believe its 8th pages long. Name me some lhw outside shogun,page,jones, evans...that will beat machida 5 times out of 10? If you think machida should be cut then the ufc should cut every lhw that he can beat such as cane,vera,bader,forrest,franklin,diabate,etc.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Since getting cut has nothing to do with fighters losing fights I'd say Machida is safe. He is unique and has a big following. He's not going to get cut even if he loses four or even five in a row. As long as he keeps his fans he'll always have a place in the UFC because he's making them lots and lots of money.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Since getting cut has nothing to do with fighters losing fights I'd say Machida is safe. He is unique and has a big following. He's not going to get cut even if he loses four or even five in a row. As long as he keeps his fans he'll always have a place in the UFC because he's making them lots and lots of money.


Getting cut should have to do with losing to the "QUALITY" of opponents and not the number.


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## VikingKing (Dec 3, 2011)

No.Machida is still legit,do i think he is that great as many ppl want him to be? No i dont.But he is still a force to recon with in UFC,no reason to cut him yet.


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## Nikitas (Dec 12, 2011)

Machida showed great courage against Jones. He did alot better than Shogun and Rampage. No way should he be cut. I would rate him in top 5 LHW.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Only one former champ has been cut in the history of the UFC and that's Mark Coleman long after he should have been done fighting.

Oh and Machida was completely tooling Jones until the takedown, then he got too concerned with the cut and stopped fighting his fight.


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## bonejakon (Dec 12, 2011)

I think Machida is an awesome fighter with a refreshing style and should not be cut by any means. But Jones is way above everyone now, not just Machida. It's true that Machida is in a situation where he has to prove he's still got it, but that's normal pressure that comes on every fighter sooner or later.


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

if dan hardy wasn't cut then no way should machida get the axe


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## MMA specialist (Nov 8, 2010)

Bscoop09 said:


> Thoughts


Lyoto is a bad man who in my opinion is still in top 5 LHW and would destroy most of the division. So, no i dont think Lyoto should be cut. Tito should be cut.. hes 1-6-1 in his last 8 fights.. thats pretty ridiculous.


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## Ruckus (Oct 2, 2009)

:confused02:Come on man!?!?


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Hadn't seen this topic until just now...wish it had stayed that way 

Of course Machida should not be cut. Losses to Shogun and Rampage, both ex UFC Champions and LHW greats, and a loss to the current champ who is running through everyone like they're made of butter is nothing to get cut over. He'll probably face 1-2 mid ranking fighters, knock together a few wins and be back facing contenders by this time next year. He certainly isn't leaving the UFC anytime soon. He's top 5 still without a doubt.


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## jaw2929 (Dec 9, 2011)

Hell no Machida shouldn't be cut. Victim of circumstance and tough opponent after tough opponent.


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## Risto (Oct 11, 2006)

No, he shouldn't be cut - and he won't be cut.


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## BIRDMANUK (Dec 11, 2011)

No way he should be cut. Still think he should have had decision v Rampage. Jones will destroy anyone at the mo. Question, who can honestly beat Jones at the moment? I would like to see Machida rematch at some point.


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

didn't he get cut _during _the fight?


aaite, I'm out of here


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I am not a fan of Lyoto, but realistically who has he lost to that proves he deserves to be cut? No, no he doesn't deserve it. He has only been fighting top 5/10 guys for his last 5 or so fights. By no means should anyone even speculate on cutting him.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Bscoop09 said:


> He was brutally knocked out


By a guy he beat the fight before.



Bscoop09 said:


> He was outstruck


In a close fight that many think he won.



Bscoop09 said:


> He was brutally put to sleep


By a guy who brutally put EVERYONE to sleep / in a hospital bed, including two other former champs, and gave him his toughest fight to date.

None of Machida's losses are cause for shame. Sure, he's not gonna be holding the belt anytime soon, but at the very least he's a tough gatekeeper, and at best he's the perennial #2/3 in the div. 

You don't cut contenders when they lose to other contenders, otherwise you'd have a division with just one or two guys in it.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Well, I though he looked pretty damn awesome in the first round. That Machida would probably beat all other LHW's right now. I consider his KO loss to Shogun a mistake on his part. He stopped fighting his fight and tried to be more aggressive. As for Rampage, he clearly wasnt himself... not surprisingly after the KO to Shogun.

But against Jones, he looked sharp and confident. 

Besides all of that, his style is completely unique. This alone makes him pretty much un-cuttable. Diversity is the spice of life, and Machidas style is awesome and a one-off.


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## MMA specialist (Nov 8, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> Well, I though he looked pretty damn awesome in the first round. That Machida would probably beat all other LHW's right now. I consider his KO loss to Shogun a mistake on his part. He stopped fighting his fight and tried to be more aggressive. As for Rampage, he clearly wasnt himself... not surprisingly after the KO to Shogun.
> 
> But against Jones, he looked sharp and confident.
> 
> Besides all of that, his style is completely unique. This alone makes him pretty much un-cuttable. Diversity is the spice of life, and Machidas style is awesome and a one-off.


^ Exactly. Jon Jones had serious trouble finding his range on Machida in the first round and he had a serious reach advantage. Machida however had no trouble landing strikes on Bones and rocking him at one point. 

Lyoto is still a tough tough guy and i think now he can get that rematch with Rampage.


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## Crester (Apr 5, 2009)

No way should Machida be cut. He's a top level LHW... people aren't cut just because they lost... they get cut because they aren't performing. And Lyoto is performing! Who else gave Jon Jones so much trouble?


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> Well, I though he looked pretty damn awesome in the first round. That Machida would probably beat all other LHW's right now. I consider his KO loss to Shogun a mistake on his part. He stopped fighting his fight and tried to be more aggressive.


i feel this same thing happened in the jones fight, he gets excited and really wants to finish fights... halfway through the second round he gets too agressive, he should never have even let jones get close to clinching...


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## TheOldAssassin (Sep 17, 2010)

The loser of Rashad-Phil Davis is likely next up for Machida - and definitely if it's Rashad since that's who Rashad will want to fight next if he can't fight Jon Jones, and he won't be able to fight Jones next (and perhaps never; hope springs eternal!) if he does lose to Davis.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

TheOldAssassin said:


> The loser of Rashad-Phil Davis is likely next up for Machida - and definitely if it's Rashad since that's who Rashad will want to fight next if he can't fight Jon Jones, and he won't be able to fight Jones next (and perhaps never; hope springs eternal!) if he does lose to Davis.


Machida vs Bonnar II? Bonnar is on a little winning streak and deserves a chance against a bigger name.

He'd probably lose, but it would still be an interesting fight


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Man I'd love Machida vs Bonnar 2. Never even thought of that fight.

Hell I'd take Machida welcoming Franklin back in the summer as well. Two big names, both coming off of losses, both former champions in a rematch.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

K R Y said:


> Man I'd love Machida vs Bonnar 2. Never even thought of that fight.
> 
> Hell I'd take Machida welcoming Franklin back in the summer as well. Two big names, both coming off of losses, both former champions in a rematch.


Especially because Bonnar lost the first fight after a doctor stoppage... Give the man some closure 

I think Franklin will end up being Tito's final fight


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## CarlosCondit (Jul 16, 2011)

Following your logic, almost everybody has to be let go by the UFC. Yes, he had been finished twice in the UFC, but he is 9-3 in the company... he is one of the top fighters in the division and he was the champion, there's no logical reason for him to be released.


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