# Cain Velasquez: Fallon Fox shouldn't be able to fight women



## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/3/28/4154112/cain-velasquez-fallon-fox-shouldnt-be-able-to-fight-women



> "I don't think she should be able to fight women," Velasquez flatly responded when asked about Fox at a recent media luncheon.
> 
> "Having the same bone structure and everything else as a man, I think definitely does give her an advantage."
> 
> ...


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Cain has an opinion on something?


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## js9234 (Apr 8, 2007)

And a good one at that lol 


khoveraki said:


> Cain has an opinion on something?


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Surprised to hear Cain chime in at all. I agree though.


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## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

Must have caught Cain in a rare talkative moment. I do agree with him but really don't care to see a division devoted to a very rare and specific case like this. People thought a woman's division doesn't have enough contenders, imagine this.

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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

There are a lot of anatomical advantages of having a man's body, even if Fallon has been chemically re-adjusted, it may diminish her muscles to an extent, but it doesn't shrink her man hands, man feet, shoulder width, bone density and other structural advantages the average man's body has over the average woman's body. 

Renee Richards was a well known transgender man who competed in women's tennis back in the 70's-80's, but his/her strength, speed, height & size advantages weren't translated to throwing concussive blows at her opponents. I think that's the biggest variable. Fallon isn't winning a running race, tennis match or basketball game, she's throwing her man body parts against a women's face. That's just my opinion.


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

What are these anatomical advantages people speak of? Just a few weeks ago before the Rousey fight, everybody was saying how men and women are completely the same and therefore people who don't want to watch women are haters...


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## Mr Jeff 1 (Feb 14, 2013)

Have you seen the body of this Cat chick, and people want to fight her, she is bigger all around than Fox


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## JASONJRF (Nov 3, 2009)

This shouldn't even be a topic of discussion as much as it is. Plain and simple they should not be allowed to fight women. They have a distinct advantage and can hurt someone. People who are in favor of this are usually other gays or transgenders that start calling people opposed to this homophobes and stuff or ignorant. Its ridiculous and should not be allowed. Im all for people doing what they want voted for gay marriage on the last ballet but when your endangering others its not cool.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> What are these anatomical advantages people speak of? Just a few weeks ago before the Rousey fight, everybody was saying how men and women are completely the same and therefore people who don't want to watch women are haters...


LMFAO.

I remember that discussion. What an asinine, asinine display of political correctness.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

'Little do they know,' thought Cain Velasquez, 'that I was born a woman.'


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

I'm with Cain on this one.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> What are these anatomical advantages people speak of? Just a few weeks ago before the Rousey fight, everybody was saying how *men and women are completely the same* and therefore people who don't want to watch women are haters...


Who exactly was saying that? :confused02:


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

This is such a weird ass world we live in. I dunno man, you're free to live your life how you want to I guess, ya know, but does anyone feel this Fallon Fox person is crossing some kind of line by getting a sex change and fighting women? Its just so bizzare, I mean, if you hate women that much just be gay, it's not even a big deal now...you just avoid them all together, and you can be friends with them, jeez.


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## duckyou666 (Mar 17, 2011)

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> What are these anatomical advantages people speak of? Just a few weeks ago before the Rousey fight, everybody was saying how men and women are completely the same and therefore people who don't want to watch women are haters...


Off the top of my head, women have larger kidneys, a larger liver, targets for striking and smaller lungs and a smaller lung capacity, which is clearly a stamina issue. A woman's blood contains less red blood cells than a man's, I think it's like 20% less. Red blood cells carry oxygen in the blood, that means a woman's arms and/or legs, muscles in general, would burn out much faster than a man's. The average man is 50% stronger than the average woman in brute strength.

Other than that, yup men and women are exactly the same.:confused05:


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Ape City said:


> Who exactly was saying that? :confused02:


He's not wrong.

Search a thread about Women's TUF started by me.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

people shouldn't do sex changes, period.

"I was born a woman in a man's body".. - no you weren't, you are just probably gay and terribly confused about it.


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## RWCNT (Dec 16, 2010)

hellholming said:


> people shouldn't do sex changes, period.
> 
> "I was born a woman in a man's body".. - no you weren't, you are just probably gay and terribly confused about it.


Yeah, you're right, you know exactly what other people feel inside, moron. Sorry, but I think you've got to mean it to chop your cock off.


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## #TeamKong (Mar 29, 2013)

RWCNT said:


> Yeah, you're right, you know exactly what other people feel inside, moron. Sorry,* but I think you've got to mean it to chop your cock off*.


I agree with this, if a man is willing to part ways with his penis and his bollocks then that is more than enough for me to believe he should live life as a woman. But on the other side of the coin, Men and Women are built differently and Fallon was born male and could definitely hurt someone.

Oh and I want to introduce myself formally, My name is Rich and I where born in England and reside in the Black Country, West Midlands. I'm 27 and work in Electrical installation. Although I attend MMA classes I don't compete but are genuinely interested in the sport.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

I just don't understand how you can be born "in a different body".... You aren't really anything when you're born, it's the experiences you have when you grow up that form you into the person you become... if those make you feel you are the wrong gender, then I guess it is justifiable... wow, I just contradicted myself. 

note to self: don't post when just woken up, or when drunk.

also, nice to have you around Rich!


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## #TeamKong (Mar 29, 2013)

Thank you, I like the look of the forum. A lot of the views seem to be pretty legit here and I look forward to the banter.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> He's not wrong.
> 
> Search a thread about Women's TUF started by me.


I thought i started that one? or maybe we both made the same threads at the same time heh


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Joe Rogan said it has been studied and pretty much proven that Men are born with a 10% better reaction time. Women's hip structure also hurts their technique in throwing kicks. 

That Tennis player that did this in the 70s sucked as a man on the men's tour. Once he did the sex change and "became a woman" she then did very well on the woman's tour. And that is TENNIS!

I'm sort of sick of these activists getting all bent out of shape and having to defend to no end on any subject. No one has a problem with her lifestyle. But to see that there are clear mechanical advantages beyond hormones is clear to see for anyone that isn't being a ridiculous person.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Can't believe some of the shiz in that thread lol.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

hellholming said:


> people shouldn't do sex changes, period.
> 
> "I was born a woman in a man's body".. - no you weren't, you are just probably gay and terribly confused about it.


Yep, most ignorant thing I've read on MMAF in the four years I've been here.


I do agree with Cain here though. It's unfortunate that Fallon wanted to be an MMA fighter and a woman, but born a man. Her muscles won't develop like a man any more but her bone density stays the same as it was, which is an unfair advantage in a brutal combat sport.

If I was a woman in WMMA, I wouldn't want my opponent to be a former man who is a Navy veteran, honestly.


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## _CaptainRon (May 8, 2007)

Besides the fact that I thought it would be hilarious if KenFlo dropped to 135, wore a wig, and faced Rousey for the title and lost, because he can't win a title fight, this transgender thing is ridiculous. I believe in rights for the LGBT, but for a transgender to compete in a sport as dangerous as MMA... ******* come on. 

This is such a small slice of the population, that no one should care, but we see this shit on the front page of junkie?! Imagine if a top level MMA fighter decided to suddenly get a sex change. Donald Cerrone figures instead of being a cowboy he wants to be a cowgirl, how are those fights going to go?


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

cain's afraid of fallon fox!


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Yep, most ignorant thing I've read on MMAF in the four years I've been here.


then you missed the part where I woke up and my brain started working.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

_CaptainRon said:


> Besides the fact that I thought it would be hilarious if KenFlo dropped to 135, wore a wig, and faced Rousey for the title and lost, because he can't win a title fight, this transgender thing is ridiculous. I believe in rights for the LGBT, but for a transgender to compete in a sport as dangerous as MMA... ******* come on.
> 
> This is such a small slice of the population, that no one should care, but we see this shit on the front page of junkie?! Imagine if a top level MMA fighter decided to suddenly get a sex change. Donald Cerrone figures instead of being a cowboy he wants to be a cowgirl, how are those fights going to go?


I just want to say I love that you chose Cowboy as your example. All of these threads have definitely made me rethink things and I still maintain from a personal experience perspective that a lot more changes than the average person realizes, however I do believe that it is too slippery of a slope at the moment. I say leave it up to the commission 

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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Cain has no medical credential, no one weighing in on this has a medical credential to judge one way or another, the commission is gonna do what it's gonna do. If WMMA fighters want to fight Fox they will, if they don't then they wont...

...simple as!


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## js9234 (Apr 8, 2007)

It's called a discussion on a public forum. If you don't like it, don't read it. We can judge, doesn't mean we're right or wrong either way.


Sugar-Free_LizaG said:


> Cain has no medical credential, no one weighing in on this has a medical credential to judge one way or another, the commission is gonna do what it's gonna do. If WMMA fighters want to fight Fox they will, if they don't then they wont...
> 
> ...simple as!


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

js9234 said:


> It's called a discussion on a public forum. If you don't like it, don't read it. We can judge, doesn't mean we're right or wrong either way.


Honestly though, this has been discussed to the nines already and every other thread on this issue has been closed already because people were exercising their freedom to judge a bit too much


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

@js9234

At least you can differentiate opinion from fact, it's something some people on here are still getting to grips with.

Good for you, but some others need to chill and get off their high-horse.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

There is only one fight for Fallon that would interest me. After she gets destroyed she should focus on being a better woman. 

does that stuff come with an owners manual?












> “She wants to be a girl. I don’t agree. I think you’re born a girl, you’re a girl. You’re born a guy, you’re a guy. But I don’t choose opponents. The commission needs to check and make sure she doesn’t have testosterone. I’m not going to judge other people. If the commission says she can fight, why not? People tell me on Twitter: ‘I think you have a d—.’ A lot of bad things, they say. I think people have a small mind. They don’t think a girl can punch hard like a man. I think people are ignorant. People are stupid. I don’t want to be the same as people who do that.”
> 
> Cris Cyborg via ESPN.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Sugar-Free_LizaG said:


> @js9234
> 
> At least you can differentiate opinion from fact, it's something some people on here are still getting to grips with.
> 
> Good for you, but some others need to chill and get off their high-horse.


Relax.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

oldfan said:


> There is only one fight for Fallon that would interest me. After she gets destroyed she should focus on being a better woman.
> 
> does that stuff come with an owners manual?




"The commission needs to check if she has testosterone."

- Cris Cyborg


:laugh:


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## Sharon (Jun 14, 2012)

I agree with Cain. This Fallon person is basically a cheater for wanting to fight women. I don't agree with this at all. I'm a liberal but jesus, this should not be going on!


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

"The commission needs to check if she has testosterone."

- Cris Cyborg

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Sharon said:


> I agree with Cain. This Fallon person is basically a cheater for wanting to fight women. I don't agree with this at all. I'm a liberal but jesus, this should not be going on!


How does it make her a cheater?

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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Yo, Cow. Perhaps you have already elaborated in one of these threads and I missed it. But what are you credentials for discussing this matter? What separates your knowledge from most everyone else on this board? It is sort of cool to have an expert in this area on this forum.

Thanks in advance!


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Mixed-gender MMA competition is not fair or acceptable. End of.

If you are born X or Y and decide you don't want to be X or Y, find another sport, it's too much of a variable in this one.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Yo, Cow. Perhaps you have already elaborated in one of these threads and I missed it. But what are you credentials for discussing this matter? What separates your knowledge from most everyone else on this board? It is sort of cool to have an expert in this area on this forum.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


What are my credentials? That's a good question. I have no formal education on the matter, I hold no piece of paper which states I am an expert on this matter. My comments and my knowledge stem solely from my perspective having gone through all of this myself. It's no fancy book-learned stuff, just my experiences with transitioning.

You may also have missed me asking to be referred to as Daph, or Daphne rather than Cow as I didn't really think my username through in terms of short handing it. I'm not a fan of Cow haha


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> What are my credentials? That's a good question. I have no formal education on the matter, I hold no piece of paper which states I am an expert on this matter. My comments and my knowledge stem solely from my perspective having gone through all of this myself. It's no fancy book-learned stuff, just my experiences with transitioning.
> 
> You may also have missed me asking to be referred to as Daph, or Daphne rather than Cow as I didn't really think my username through in terms of short handing it. I'm not a fan of Cow haha


Oh nice, that makes you qualified in my book. Biased, but qualified.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Oh nice, that makes you qualified in my book. Biased, but qualified.


Haha I'm definitely the first person to admit I'm biased 

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## duckyou666 (Mar 17, 2011)

Cowgirl said:


> How does it make her a cheater?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


Well..., hmmm..., the her in question is actually a him? Physically, Fox is a dude.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

duckyou666 said:


> Well..., hmmm..., the her in question is actually a him? Physically, Fox is a dude.


Actually, from both a physiological standpoint, as well as a legal standpoint, Fallon is a she. 

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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

legal means nothing, this guy is a creep not only does he have a sex change to become a woman which is fine but to do it to beat up on women that is some bad shite, it reminds me of that horrible mens tennis player who turned woman and then dominated everyone in womens tennis despite sucking as a man it isn't fair or right.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> What are my credentials? That's a good question. I have no formal education on the matter, I hold no piece of paper which states I am an expert on this matter. My comments and my knowledge stem solely from my perspective having gone through all of this myself. It's no fancy book-learned stuff, just my experiences with transitioning.
> 
> You may also have missed me asking to be referred to as Daph, or Daphne rather than Cow as I didn't really think my username through in terms of short handing it. I'm not a fan of Cow haha


May I ask whether you train in (M)MA or any other competitive sport¿ And if so, what is your experience concerning your physical abilities compared to your fellow female training partners¿


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## duckyou666 (Mar 17, 2011)

Cowgirl said:


> Actually, from both a physiological standpoint, as well as a legal standpoint, Fallon is a she.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


Chemically, he's a she. Physically, he's a he. Being able to function as and being legally defined a woman does not change the fact that he has all the physical advantages of a man. Don't give me this, "I am woman, hear me roar," crap, men are physically, (sorry if anyone finds this offensive) superior to women. Read my first post on page 2. I'm fairly certain all those statistics are accurate. Should he be allowed to use the woman's restroom? Sure. Should he be allowed to fight women? Nope.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Voiceless said:


> May I ask whether you train in (M)MA or any other competitive sport¿ And if so, what is your experience concerning your physical abilities compared to your fellow female training partners¿


Owns I highly doubt she transitioned specifically to beat women as your post seems to imply.

Yes Voiceless, I do train in Muay Thai and BJJ. My experience is that I match up fairly evenly with them, although to be fair, I was never really a muscle man. The effects of androgen blockers and the influx of estrogen has many more effects than simply feminizing features. 

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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

can we get a pic? interested in seeing the results


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

HexRei said:


> can we get a pic? interested in seeing the results


When I'm near a computer again, sure 

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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

This thread is about to go full retard.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

SM33 said:


> This thread is about to go full retard.


zip it up buddy


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

HexRei said:


> can we get a pic? interested in seeing the results


Well, if I could figure out the photo system here I would lol


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> http://beautifulladiesoftehwebz.tumblr.com/image/46722923098


didn't work, ok now it does


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> didn't work, ok now it does


It won't have worked for long, not really comfortable with having my picture on a blog I just created just to show you guys. If anyone knows a better way, I'm all ears


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

haha it worked for like thirty seconds


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

HexRei said:


> haha it worked for like thirty seconds


Is there a way to put the photo in a post directly on the forum?


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

yeah upload to tinypic and then copy the url into some IMG tags. Wow Cowgirl, that surprises me. 

So just to clarify, you are for Fallon fighting in WMMA?

This case is kinda similar to the Parinya Charoenphol case.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

El Bresko said:


> yeah upload to tinypic and then copy the url into some IMG tags. Wow Cowgirl, that surprises me.
> 
> *So just to clarify, you are for Fallon fighting in WMMA?*
> 
> This case is kinda similar to the Parinya Charoenphol case.


I am, assuming there is disclosure and that her opponent is okay with it.




> can we get a pic? interested in seeing the results


Check the member's picture thread.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

I like the cut of your jib Daphne...how long ago did you start?


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Simply put, no. He was born a man with physical qualities of a man. Nothing wil change this.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Rauno said:


> Simply put, no. He was born a man with physical qualities of a man. Nothing wil change this.


It's been a few years Rofl

Nothing except the years of hormone therapy and the lack of testosterone.

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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> It's been a few years Rofl
> 
> Nothing except the years of hormone therapy and the lack of testosterone.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


your opinion is nice but i disagree completely, unless you know for a fact fallons strength and brutalizing of woomen competitors is a level playing field you dont have a leg to stand on


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

None of our opinions have a leg to stand on OWNS...mine included, but Daph has the best reference right now out of all of us...

...unless you are considering Gender Reassignment


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Sugar-Free_LizaG said:


> None of our opinions have a leg to stand on OWNS...mine included, but Daph has the best reference right now out of all of us...
> 
> ...unless you are considering Gender Reassignment


im considering stealing all the genders mwahahahaha :wink03::wink03::confused01::hug:


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> your opinion is nice but i disagree completely, unless you know for a fact fallons strength and brutalizing of woomen competitors is a level playing field you dont have a leg to stand on


My opinion may well not have a leg to stand on, but remember, my opinion is fueled by my personal experiences, and news that I get in my own doctors appointments pertaining to my own body changes. It's like I said earlier too, this makes me biased because I have first hand experience in it all and when I have doctors telling me my bone density is changing, along with a lot of other things, then I have people on an online MMA board telling me its a bunch of hokum, who am I going to believe?

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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

it means you believe no one, you believe what the doctors who will cover this case for sure have to say because they would have the better argument for the neutral person to understand if she has an advantage or not


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> it means you believe no one, you believe what the doctors who will cover this case for sure have to say because they would have the better argument for the neutral person to understand if she has an advantage or not


... What? I actually can't make heads or tails of this post. I believe the test results I'm shown.

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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> ... What? I actually can't make heads or tails of this post. I believe the test results I'm shown.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


never mind, all i'm saying is the doctors that will cover foxs 15 minutes of fame will tell us with medical research and reason if she has an advantage over his/her competitors which I believe she does.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Cowgirl said:


> My opinion may well not have a leg to stand on, but remember, my opinion is fueled by my personal experiences, and news that I get in my own doctors appointments pertaining to my own body changes. It's like I said earlier too, this makes me biased because I have first hand experience in it all and when I have doctors telling me my bone density is changing, along with a lot of other things, then I have people on an online MMA board telling me its a bunch of hokum, who am I going to believe?
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


That is very interesting. I know with the hormone therapy that muscles change and physiology changes overall but is a bone density reduction normal?

Perhaps the commission should allow transgendered fighters to fight after a certain period of time from their gender reassignment therapy. Maybe a couple of years?


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> never mind, all i'm saying is the doctors that will cover foxs 15 minutes of fame will tell us with medical research and reason if she has an advantage over his/her competitors which I believe she does.


Tell you what OWNS, next time I have a checkup with my doc, I'll see about getting a copy of one of the tests, then I'll post it here since you can't seem to fathom what an influx of chemicals can do to a body  :hug:


Khov, I'm not 100% sure if it is normal or not, I know that FtM trans people it is normal for their bone density to increase, and given that mine has decreased I'd make the assumption that it is normal, but I don't know for sure. 
I'm all for commissions allowing them to fight after a certain point.
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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> Tell you what OWNS, next time I have a checkup with my doc, I'll see about getting a copy of one of the tests, then I'll post it here since you can't seem to fathom what an influx of chemicals can do to a body  :hug:
> 
> 
> Khov, I'm not 100% sure if it is normal or not, I know that FtM trans people it is normal for their bone density to increase, and given that mine has decreased I'd make the assumption that it is normal, but I don't know for sure.
> ...


But you aren't punching holes through peoples heads like Fox so that point is silly, chemicals don't change what human really is nor does surgery or different names or whatever it's like having bad parents you may not like them but they will always be your parents no matter what you do.
That's just my opinion I don't expect you to agree with it even a little but i'll still say it anyways.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> But you aren't punching holes through peoples heads like Fox so that point is silly, chemicals don't change what human really is nor does surgery or different names or whatever it's like having bad parents you may not like them but they will always be your parents no matter what you do.
> That's just my opinion I don't expect you to agree with it even a little but i'll still say it anyways.


That's the beautiful thing about the internet, you get to meet people with different opinions. I respect your opinion, but opinion can only go so far in a factual world such as this.

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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

UFC_OWNS said:


> But you aren't punching holes through peoples heads like Fox so that point is silly, chemicals don't change *what human really is* nor does surgery or different names or whatever it's like having bad parents you may not like them but they will always be your parents no matter what you do.
> That's just my opinion I don't expect you to agree with it even a little but i'll still say it anyways.


What is a human other than a bunch of "chemicals"? Were made up of oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Cowgirl said:


> Tell you what OWNS, next time I have a checkup with my doc, I'll see about getting a copy of one of the tests, then I'll post it here since you can't seem to fathom what an influx of chemicals can do to a body  :hug:
> 
> 
> Khov, I'm not 100% sure if it is normal or not, I know that FtM trans people it is normal for their bone density to increase, and given that mine has decreased I'd make the assumption that it is normal, but I don't know for sure.
> ...


Bone density is very much influenced by estrogen and testosterone so I'd say it's normal. It's also the reason why osteoporosis in women is much more common than in men.


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## Hexabob69 (Nov 8, 2008)

So all my years as a young man and being told I should never hit a woman; I should have been told that all I have to do is get a sex change... Damn revenge is sweet.... Hold on there what am I saying... Did we not already kill this horse only to have it once again resurected in a different format. I have weighed in in the past and I guess I offered a different take; but really this may be up to a commission to decide but in today's political climate a decision either way labels the maker one way or the other. Both negative and full of bias because the decision cannot be made for the right reasons. All fighters male and female should weigh in on this as it is thier profession in question; and the whatever the wrong decision has far reaching reprecussions. Let us the fan just let this threat die once more.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Hexabob69 said:


> So all my years as a young man and being told I should never hit a woman; I should have been told that all I have to do is get a sex change... Damn revenge is sweet.... Hold on there what am I saying... Did we not already kill this horse only to have it once again resurected in a different format. I have weighed in in the past and I guess I offered a different take; but really this may be up to a commission to decide but in today's political climate a decision either way labels the maker one way or the other. Both negative and full of bias because the decision cannot be made for the right reasons. All fighters male and female should weigh in on this as it is thier profession in question; and the whatever the wrong decision has far reaching reprecussions. Let us the fan just let this threat die once more.



This isn't 1950. The decision the commission makes will in no way be influenced by the threat of being labeled anything. It will be decided based on science and with the safety of all fighters in mind.


I'm not sure if a lot of people here don't understand that it's years of hormone therapy that physically changes your chemical makeup combined with multiple surgeries. It's not like you're the same exact person, minus your dick.


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## Hexabob69 (Nov 8, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> This isn't 1950. The decision the commission makes will in no way be influenced by the threat of being labeled anything. It will be decided based on science and with the safety of all fighters in mind.


Really... In the 1950s we would have never even known about this. In the 1950s this would have never become an issue as it was one of the taboo subjects. We are living a a society now that is constantly under bombarmant through social media. Look how quickly on this forum one will post a simple opinion and it will be fanned into a fire with a by the pundits. 

On your other opinion really think on that statement. Even with all of the hormone therapy and the operation... How long (in years) that you complete body make up will be that which you strived for? I say one should have to wait 10 years post surgery; but like you all that is just my opinion. I am sick of this shit being on the fighting portion of our forums. If I found a post that states that "UFC" competitor licks dick. I should come here and make a post about how great it is to do so and be justified because like in this post it started out being about a UFC competitor. It is a fcuking troll job and it is done as such. The first post was legite but all afer became a matter of opinion and a flame fest.
My true point was letting this thread die like the last 2 on same subject!


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Hexabob69 said:


> Really... In the 1950s we would have never even known about this. In the 1950s this would have never become an issue as it was one of the taboo subjects. We are living a a society now that is constantly under bombarmant through social media. Look how quickly on this forum one will post a simple opinion and it will be fanned into a fire with a by the pundits.
> 
> On your other opinion really think on that statement. Even with all of the hormone therapy and the operation... How long (in years) that you complete body make up will be that which you strived for? I say one should have to wait 10 years post surgery; but like you all that is just my opinion. I am sick of this shit being on the fighting portion of our forums. If I found a post that states that "UFC" competitor licks dick. I should come here and make a post about how great it is to do so and be justified because like in this post it started out being about a UFC competitor. It is a fcuking troll job and it is done as such. The first post was legite but all afer became a matter of opinion and a flame fest.
> My true point was letting this thread die like the last 2 on same subject!


What is your research regarding your decision of ten years post-surgery? Please link your sources.

I'm not sure what you mean by society being under constant bombardment. There's knowledge and incite in this thread and Cowgirl has an incredibly valuable perspective on the subject to add. There's not many people I see trolling and ruining this thread, but you'd certainly be counted as one of them.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I sincerely look forward to watching the athletic commission(s) decide this issue in a proffessional and scientific way. :thumb02:






:cool04::cool04:













> *NSAC chairman Skip Avansino asked Sonnen if he would be willing to help in an "advisory capacity" with TRT issues. Sonnen agreed.*



:laugh:


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Hexabob69 said:


> So all my years as a young man and being told I should never hit a woman; I should have been told that all I have to do is get a sex change... Damn revenge is sweet.... Hold on there what am I saying... Did we not already kill this horse only to have it once again resurected in a different format. I have weighed in in the past and I guess I offered a different take; but really this may be up to a commission to decide but in today's political climate a decision either way labels the maker one way or the other. Both negative and full of bias because the decision cannot be made for the right reasons. All fighters male and female should weigh in on this as it is thier profession in question; and the whatever the wrong decision has far reaching reprecussions. Let us the fan just let this threat die once more.


The other threads died because they stopped being intellectual discussions. If you wish to not discuss it then don't, it's pretty simple. 

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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Ape City said:


> What is a human other than a bunch of "chemicals"? Were made up of oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus.


You are born even born a savagely man or an elegant woman:hug::hug::hug:


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> You are born even born a savagely man or an elegant woman:hug::hug::hug:


Science has come a long way as to what it can accomplish :hug: 

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## Hexabob69 (Nov 8, 2008)

My last post was the only time I have trolled in any of the posts. And that was one deliberate troll fanned by at least two... Thanks for making my point. In fact the only reason this thread remains open is the same reason I stated in my first post this thread. Fear and repercussions. .. I feel that these threads are best for the lobby or another website.

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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Hexabob69 said:


> My last post was the only time I have trolled in any of the posts. And that was one deliberate troll fanned by at least two... Thanks for making my point. In fact the only reason this thread remains open is the same reason I stated in my first post this thread. Fear and repercussions. .. I feel that these threads are best for the lobby or another website.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


The reason I like to think this thread is left open is because there is still intellectual discussion happening on this topic that is so pertinent to MMA as a sport. 

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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Let's stop discussing having an intellectual conversation and actually get back to it or this thread will be closed.

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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Ok, back to discussing the actual issue. And I think we should take advantage of the possibility to get insight from someone with personal experience as I guess most of us don't have closer knowledge about this topic.



Cowgirl said:


> Yes Voiceless, I do train in Muay Thai and BJJ. My experience is that I match up fairly evenly with them, although to be fair, I was never really a muscle man. The effects of androgen blockers and the influx of estrogen has many more effects than simply feminizing features.


I think some posts later you mentioned that the hormone therapy affects you bone density. Did it also affect your actual (skeletal) frame size¿ I guess you haven't become shorter¿ And for how long do you have to take the hormones¿ Do you have to take them for your whole life, like immune supressing medicaments after i.e. a heart transplantation, or is the transition at some point "completed" and you don't have to take hormones anymore and you body balances its own hormone production according to the new biological sex¿

And more in relation to sanctioned MMA competition, do you know if any of the hormones and medicaments you need for the transition are listed as banned substances¿ I guess that could be more of an issue for F2M transitions, as I guess they have to take additional testosterone.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Voiceless said:


> Ok, back to discussing the actual issue. And I think we should take advantage of the possibility to get insight from someone with personal experience as I guess most of us don't have closer knowledge about this topic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's an ongoing process forever. I didn't notice any skeletal changes. To my knowledge nothing I am on is on the banned substance list, though that's not necessarily a universal.

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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> It's an ongoing process forever.


Hm, couldn't that leave somewhat of a loophole for some kind of "natural" doping, like leaving the hormone substitutes out for a certain amount of time¿


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Voiceless said:


> Hm, couldn't that leave somewhat of a loophole for some kind of "natural" doping, like leaving the hormone substitutes out for a certain amount of time¿


But it would still show up as elevated levels of testosterone, since they'd be testing for female levels right?

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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)




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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/4/8/4199282/UFC-matt-mitrione-transphobic-tirade-fallon-fox




> After telling another joke, host Ariel Helwani asked Mitrione, "Why do you hate Fallon Fox so much, and why do you keep calling she a 'he'?"
> 
> "Because she's not a he. He's a he," he said. "He's chromosomally a man. He had a gender change, not a sex change. He's still a man. He was a man for 31 years. Thirty-one years. That's a couple years younger than I am. He's a man. Six years of taking performance de-hancing drugs, you think is going to change all that? That's ridiculous.
> 
> *"That is a lying, sick, sociopathic, disgusting freak,"* he continued. "And I mean that. Because you lied on your license to beat up women. That's disgusting. You should be embarrassed yourself. And the fact that Florida licensed him because California licensed him or whoever the hell did it, it's an embarrassment to us as fighters, as a sport, and we all should protest that. The woman that's fighting him, props to you. I hope you beat his ass, and I hope he gets blackballed and never fights again, because that's disgusting and I'm appalled by that."


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

OU said:


> http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/4/8/4199282/UFC-matt-mitrione-transphobic-tirade-fallon-fox


**** Mitrione.

The guy clearly has no idea what he's talking about. "She had a gender change, not a sex change." Pinnacle of his ignorance right here. Seriously, didn't like the guy before this, hate him now. He could have voiced his opposition in a much better way, like Velasquez, or others but instead he decided to go the low blow uneducated sounding way. He is the embarrassment to the sport, not Fallon.

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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

Cowgirl said:


> **** Mitrione.
> 
> The guy clearly has no idea what he's talking about. "She had a gender change, not a sex change." Pinnacle of his ignorance right here. Seriously, didn't like the guy before this, hate him now.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


Yeah I didn't want to make another thread on Fallon since there are enough on the subject. But on a slow day like this I had to post this from Meathead. They call him that for a reason lol.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

OU said:


> Yeah I didn't want to make another thread on Fallon since there are enough on the subject. But on a slow day like this I had to post this from Meathead. They call him that for a reason lol.


Meathead indeed, he clearly wants no part of sounding the least bit smart, or humane.

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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

OU said:


> http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/4/8/4199282/UFC-matt-mitrione-transphobic-tirade-fallon-fox


Dafuq? What a ridiculous and disrespectful way of voicing your opinion, i thought meathead was pretty cool =S....

You know what? Ive been on the fence for this for a while now, but from what ive read and heard if you do all the necessary things the right way you really are basically a woman...even when it comes to bone density, that was a surprise to me....so im actually in favor of Fallon...plus if cyborg is allowed to fight i really dont see why this is a big deal....


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Man, I'm running out of fighters to root for.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

ACTAFOOL said:


> Dafuq? What a ridiculous and disrespectful way of voicing your opinion, i thought meathead was pretty cool =S....
> 
> You know what? Ive been on the fence for this for a while now, but from what ive read and heard if you do all the necessary things the right way you really are basically a woman...even when it comes to bone density, that was a surprise to me....so im actually in favor of Fallon...plus if cyborg is allowed to fight i really dont see why this is a big deal....


I don't care much one way or another. And I am no doctor. 

But you can't change your height or the length of your limbs by the process. Men are born with a much better chance to be taller with longer reach. 

Joe Rogan also said it is proven that men have around a 10% better reaction time, basically due to evolution. Would have to do more research on that, but not sure why he would say it, if he himself didn't research it. 

Either way, if commissions or others are going to say weed is a performance enhancer. Or if people get suspended for having cold medicine in their system. Then I don't see how these things can be ignored. 

I don't have all the facts on that tennis player from the 70s. But the person basically sucked on the men's tour. And then was pretty good on the women's tour. That right there seems proof enough that former men have an advantage when it comes to competing with women no matter what hormone therapy they go through. 5 years being a woman doesn't seem like it can eliminate the 30 years of being a man. 

You can't tell me if Aldo did this and 5 years later competed with women...that he would not have a massive advantage. I guess we don't know for sure. But my instincts say he defiantly would be the 145lb woman's champ with quite ease.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I don't care much one way or another. And I am no doctor.
> 
> But you can't change your height or the length of your limbs by the process. Men are born with a much better chance to be taller with longer reach.
> 
> ...


*
*
Well Cyborg would finally have her "Superfight" lol


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

I'm kind of sick of hearing about this in all honesty. Lost in the huge debate is the same thing lost in the debate over the guy who did gay porn. Are they even any good? Fallon needs to kill this media attention and just talk about her fighting, it cheapens her/his career. If you're a good enough fighter people will take notice.

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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I don't care much one way or another. And I am no doctor.
> 
> But you can't change your height or the length of your limbs by the process. Men are born with a much better chance to be taller with longer reach.
> 
> ...


Actually he wouldn't.

He'd probably be in jail for murder, one Aldo leg kick and those broads would be done for.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

OU said:


> http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/4/8/4199282/UFC-matt-mitrione-transphobic-tirade-fallon-fox


It really doesn't matter what all of you think, Matt speaks the truth. Just think about it from his perspective. I'm really not sure why so many of you are taking Fallon's side. Matt hit the nail on the head.








Seriously though I always thought Meathead was a a little slow, but I never expected that kind of trash to come out of his mouth. Matt really needs to take a step back and ask himself how much he really knows. It is different for people on a forum because Matt is a public figure.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Life B Ez said:


> I'm kind of sick of hearing about this in all honesty. Lost in the huge debate is the same thing lost in the debate over the guy who did gay porn. Are they even any good? Fallon needs to kill this media attention and just talk about her fighting, it cheapens her/his career. If you're a good enough fighter people will take notice.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


While I agree with you, I don't think it's a real possibility for her because unfortunately due to the closed minded society we live in, any success she enjoys will be solely because she used to be a man. 

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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Ronda by armbar.


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## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

Matt did not choose the best way to go about making his point, but the overall point that he makes is indeed a salient one. I'm certainly not going to stop supporting him, but he let his mouth get carried away with him and used some poorly chosen and unnecessary terminology. Symptomatic of his character, he is an excitable kind of guy, very warm and friendly, but speaks in what seems like a conscious stream of thought and often says things that I'm sure he himself probably realizes seconds after that he should not have, and maybe even did not really mean. The end result is that he has said what many others are probably thinking to a degree, but would never verbalise. 

Either way, it now appears that he has been suspended..........

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/4/8/4202690/matt-mitrione-suspended-fallon-fox-transphobia


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

GlasgowKiss said:


> Matt did not choose the best way to go about making his point, but the overall point that he makes is indeed a salient one. I'm certainly not going to stop supporting him, but he let his mouth get carried away with him and used some poorly chosen and unnecessary terminology. Symptomatic of his character, he is an excitable kind of guy, very warm and friendly, but speaks in what seems like a conscious stream of thought and often says things that I'm sure he himself probably realizes seconds after that he should not have, and maybe even did not really mean. The end result is that he has said what many others are probably thinking to a degree, but would never verbalise.
> 
> Either way, it now appears that he has been suspended..........
> 
> http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/4/8/4202690/matt-mitrione-suspended-fallon-fox-transphobia


... isn't hughes in charge of the ufc's conduct policy now? really wouldn't have guessed he'd have a problem with mitrione's comments...


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## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

I think this may have superseded Hughes and come from somewhere above, if its true.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I've kept my mouth shut about this situation because I honestly know next to nothing about what is involved with becoming a transgendered individual. I'm not going to judge someone by the gender they identify with but rather the character that they bind themselves to. If Fallon wants to be a woman, go for it. I'm not going to try and stop you or call you a freak but I'm also not going to pretend to sympathize with you or understand your point of view.


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

while i disagree with this completely, if a woman agrees to fight the transgender and fully knows what she is up against then i guess it could be okay.. as long as she knows ahead of time that she is facing off against a former male, and she signs the papers then i guess that is OK...

as long as this fox fallon is not sneaking in under the premises that she is a a real she, and the opposing woman is okay with her actually being a man, then i guess let them go at it?? still not sold on it, but if both sides consent who am i to tell them otherwise...

however if fox dominates all women and takes the belt, that may be an issue... i dont like it but if there is full consent its hard to argue against it...


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

I personally would love to see dana sign fallon fox, only for her to cripple women badly and then the fox network says we cant have this and axes the UFC deal and a big cream pie flies in the UFC's faces and Japan reopens the market of big time MMA organisations.


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## tripster (Jun 5, 2006)

Matt Mitrione's comments on the matter:

"a lying, sick, sociopathic, disgusting freak," 

"I watched one of the fight videos and holy (expletive), I haven't seen a man beat a woman (like that) since Chris Brown beat Rihanna," Mitrione said in the interview, according to FoxSports.com. "That's exceptional how he beats innocent, unknowing women like that.

"She's not a he. He's a he. He's chromosomally a man. He had a gender change, not a sex change. He's still a man. He was a man for 31 years. Thirty-one years. That's a couple years younger than I am. He's a man. Six years of taking performance de-hancing drugs, you think is going to change all that? That's ridiculous.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Yeah Mitriones comments were mentioned in a closed thread, they don't need to be brought up again, that thread turned nasty really quick.


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## tripster (Jun 5, 2006)

Ah, didn;t realize.

To bad the folks on here can't have respectable discussions about pertinent subjects.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Agreed dear Tripster...agreed.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> I personally would love to see dana sign fallon fox, only for her to cripple women badly and then the fox network says we cant have this and axes the UFC deal and a big cream pie flies in the UFC's faces and Japan reopens the market of big time MMA organisations.



But UFC owns..?


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> But UFC owns..?


in 2010 when I joined up and back it was


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## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

I agree with Cain and whilst I found the wording a bit tactless I agree with Meat Head, 31 years of growth as a man surely don't make her physically a women just because of he chop-op and some pills? Don't know as much on the subject as I'd like but I'm sure she holds a significant advantage over these other women and in a sport where people can be pretty badly hurt and (yes I am saying it) potentially killed I think this is too big a risk to take with someone's health.

I'll maybe look into this a bit more though.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

Yeah i dont think it would be very smart to keep this debate going but i really dont understand how some of can just say "hey just cause you chopped off your dick doesnt mean you can hit women"....i understand the thought process, and i actually agree...if it were that simple, but its obviously not, you think without any medical education you can just come to a conclusion on an mma forum? Im not saying we cant speculate...thats what we are here for, but to pass off uneducated opinions as fact is pretty silly

At the end of the day it doesnt matter if you're for or against fallon, either way that persons opinion is just that, their opinion...dont pass it off as a fact and case closed, i have become very interested in this subject and im looking up online everything i can to shed some light on it all...the more i read the more im more open to the idea, but i have read respectable doctors also make a strong case against fallon...anyway im just suggesting that if you're for or against fallon you should at least try and educate yourself more to form an opinion, im not saying no1 here knows what they're talking about, but im just seeing superficial opinions lately...just my 2 cents, dont mean to cause any beef


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

ACTAFOOL said:


> Yeah i dont think it would be very smart to keep this debate going but i really dont understand how some of can just say "hey just cause you chopped off your dick doesnt mean you can hit women"....i understand the thought process, and i actually agree...if it were that simple, but its obviously not, you think without any medical education you can just come to a conclusion on an mma forum? Im not saying we cant speculate...thats what we are here for, but to pass off uneducated opinions as fact is pretty silly
> 
> At the end of the day it doesnt matter if you're for or against fallon, either way that persons opinion is just that, their opinion...dont pass it off as a fact and case closed, i have become very interested in this subject and im looking up online everything i can to shed some light on it all...the more i read the more im more open to the idea, but i have read respectable doctors also make a strong case against fallon...anyway im just suggesting that if you're for or against fallon you should at least try and educate yourself more to form an opinion, im not saying no1 here knows what they're talking about, but im just seeing superficial opinions lately...just my 2 cents, dont mean to cause any beef


I'd have to agree with you here, if people took the time to become a little more familiar with the issue, perhaps we'd all be a little better off


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

jonnyg4508 said:


> http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/3/28/4154112/cain-velasquez-fallon-fox-shouldnt-be-able-to-fight-women


It may be that society is so stupid they're going to have to allow one of these guys to actually kill a female fighter in the cage. That's how delusional this whole movement has become in the name of "equal rights."


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Fool makes some good points. I would just like to say that In My Opinion, If fallon is left to do as he (I've decided that I choose which pronoun I use) wants, we will probably see him send a battered or unconcious girl to the hospital and that will be a sad,sad day for my favorite sport. You will here "freakshow" then. In my opinion.


You guys are to young to remember Renee Ritchards. He did this to womens tennis in the 70's. It was a trainwreck. You would think that 40 years later they would have this sorted out.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

oldfan said:


> Fool makes some good points. I would just like to say that In My Opinion, If fallon is left to do as he (I've decided that I choose which pronoun I use) wants, we will probably see him send a battered or unconcious girl to the hospital and that will be a sad,sad day for my favorite sport. You will here "freakshow" then. In my opinion.
> 
> 
> You guys are to young to remember Renee Ritchards. He did this to womens tennis in the 70's. It was a trainwreck. You would think that 40 years later they would have this sorted out.


Yeah ive heard about this story since these Fallon debates started, wasnt aware of it before...its interesting, but i havent had time to really dig deep on this story yet, seems fishy that a man who used to suck at tennis, became a woman and all of the sudden became a bettet player...

But one has to wonder is his story the same as fallons? Did he go through the same treatments? Because this was a long time ago...how effecient was the process of changing your sex back then? I still need to look into it but i would guess logically that our technology and understanding of the human body advanced a significant amount since then....i doubt Fox and Ritchards stories have much in common except for the basic premise of man believes he is a woman trapped in a mans body - becomes a woman - wants ro compete in the sport he/she loves as a woman


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

So, we should differentiate by the year make of the girly parts? You are correct that technology has advanced considerably, science, not so much. Technology has advanced so much that what once could only be done by the most advanced clinics in Europe is now offered for a few $ by quacks in Thailand.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

So you really believe we're so advanced we can now change men into women almost perfectly. 

Just out of curiosity, then, how many women are changing themselves into men and then trying their hand at men's professional combat sports? Since we're so advanced now, I would imagine there's all kinds of success stories out there. In fact I would guess there's just as many former females fighting men as there are former males fighting women.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

I see the way women throw punches or just stand and move and other such things and it is completely different compared to men. I dont know why that is but i imagine it does have something to do with the difference of male/females bone structure build. As far as i am aware its impossible to change every part of a male to that of a females. And if that is the case then Fallon has no right to be fighting women. Getting your testosterone reduced and your penis snipped does not make you a women.

To me it makes you deformed. But thats just my opinion. 

Transgenders have no buisiness being in professional sports unless they want to fight against the same gender that they were born as.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

SideWays222 said:


> I see the way women throw punches or just stand and move and other such things and it is completely different compared to men. I dont know why that is but i imagine it does have something to do with the difference of male/females bone structure build. As far as i am aware its impossible to change every part of a male to that of a females. And if that is the case then Fallon has no right to be fighting women. Getting your testosterone reduced and your penis snipped does not make you a women.
> 
> To me it makes you deformed. But thats just my opinion.
> 
> *Transgenders have no buisiness being in professional sports unless they want to fight against the same gender that they were born as.*


The only issue with that is that it would never get sanctioned. MMA organizations are businesses that are bound by law. Men fight men and women fight women, it has to be looked at from a non biased point of view found in the law. Since any transsexual person who has undergone SRS is considered to be fully the new sex now in a legal sense, they can no longer fight people of their born sex.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

Im not saying that technology has advanced enough so it is 100% perfect, i think its pretty much impossible for a man to become a woman in the sense of giving birth for example...but im confident that precedure nowadays is a lot more effecient than that of ritchards, though i could be wrong, ill look it up!

Point is, it seems as though its possible to minimize mens advantages to the point that they dont have a significant impact on the outcome of a fight, bone density, muscle mass, eveything changes drasctically, enough so that it would be pretty much impossible for Fox to compete with men at this point probably...

No 2 wome or men are the same, its been said black athletes have some built in advantages also...there are certain athletes that do have a natural edge over others when it comes to genes, Fox probably still maintains some advantages but the real question is how significant are they?? This world you ppl imagine where all women and all men are competeing on an equal playing field since birth is fantasy...there cant be a law where everything has to be 100% equal or else ppl shouldnt fight, if that were the case nobody would be fighting, except maybe twins...


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

So if two people have similar bone densities (which vary greatly in men's MMA too), same testosterone and estrogen levels, build muscle at the same rate, and are both legally the physically the same gender...


What's the problem again?












One of these five women is a transgender woman born as a man. Can you guess which?


All of them. I guess you guys would just be OUTRAGED if one of them wanted to fight a natural born woman... like her:


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

^I'll take a wild guess and say the one on the right because she's wearing a scarf that might hide an adam's apple.

I fully agree with you by the way.


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## Hexabob69 (Nov 8, 2008)

On topic as this is a "UFC" thread... Guess what all UFC fighters shit, fart and several others topics I could give a damn less about. I have stated several times in this thread and most of the others on this stupid NOT UFC related topic that this is not about the UFC and belongs in another forum all together... If one must inform us of another bullshit non UFC/MMA topic on a MMA forum... Try and troll in the lounge... There has been very little good that has come from any of these threads. Not one here has changed the opinion of anyone else nor will that ever happen. Maybe my next UFC post will be about a fighters religious belief or political offiliation. All of which are topics that cause for lack of a better word arguements for example Troll. To me a troll is posting any topic that you know will garner a negetive response. I personnaly come here to read about MMA fighting events and opinions about why fighter x will be fighter y... Lately I am seeing more threads about stuff could give a fcuk less about. If these worthless threads continue this will become just another of the shitty forums that many here avoid. Let the fcuking horse die and who gives a fcuk what any of you all opinions are on subject unless posted in an appropriate forum. Give me one name of someone who actually gained any constructive knowledge in any of these threads. I am very conservative in these matters I guess as I do not speak about my sexual choices or perversions accept with my partner or spouse. Because I feel that these are part of ones private life and should remain so. I will never carry a flag on hetero and do not want to see one on **** either. All I asking is that post this type of shit elsewhere. When I see something I do not want to see on my TV I change channels here I am unable to do so... I would never comment on a thread say in lounge or some Non MMA area about such topics.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> So if two people have similar bone densities (which vary greatly in men's MMA too), same testosterone and estrogen levels, build muscle at the same rate, and are both legally the physically the same gender...
> 
> 
> What's the problem again?
> ...


I don't get your point? So some trasngender people are attractive as what they became? And that's it, everyone who is not okay with can be now? No one has said she can't fight women because she doesn't LOOK like a woman.


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## evzbc (Oct 11, 2006)

khoveraki said:


> One of these five women is a transgender woman born as a man. Can you guess which?


Yup!


I guess as long as the opponent knows what she's getting into before fighting Fox, than it's up to them.

However, I don't think she (Fox) will ever fight in the UFC.

But who knows what Dana White will do.


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## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm reserving my opinion for when there's more substantial medical literature on the issue. As it stands most studies have been done in relation to trans athletes competing in sports like golf, tennis, sprinting, etc... Obviously the contact/combative nature of MMA requires more studying to be done, but if studies show that SRS can put someone like Fox on equal footing with an athlete who was born a female, then there's really no reason (other than your own bigoted B.S.) that she can't fight in WMMA.


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## evilappendix (Jan 4, 2007)

Life B Ez said:


> I'm kind of sick of hearing about this in all honesty. Lost in the huge debate is the same thing lost in the debate over the guy who did gay porn. Are they even any good? Fallon needs to kill this media attention and just talk about her fighting, it cheapens her/his career. If you're a good enough fighter people will take notice.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


This sums it all up really. Fallon is getting some limelight due to controversy rather than skill which cheapens her position to a degree IMO. She's 2-0 in a smaller league I had never heard of until this. I highly doubt she will make it to the UFC, much less contend for the title. By some slim chance she does, she'll get Beowulfed by Ronda in round 1 and then she can really say she's just like every other woman in mma! raise01:


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Hexabob69 said:


> On topic as this is a "UFC" thread... Guess what all UFC fighters shit, fart and several others topics I could give a damn less about. I have stated several times in this thread and most of the others on this stupid NOT UFC related topic that this is not about the UFC and belongs in another forum all together... If one must inform us of another bullshit non UFC/MMA topic on a MMA forum... Try and troll in the lounge... There has been very little good that has come from any of these threads. Not one here has changed the opinion of anyone else nor will that ever happen. Maybe my next UFC post will be about a fighters religious belief or political offiliation. All of which are topics that cause for lack of a better word arguements for example Troll. To me a troll is posting any topic that you know will garner a negetive response. I personnaly come here to read about MMA fighting events and opinions about why fighter x will be fighter y... Lately I am seeing more threads about stuff could give a fcuk less about. If these worthless threads continue this will become just another of the shitty forums that many here avoid. Let the fcuking horse die and who gives a fcuk what any of you all opinions are on subject unless posted in an appropriate forum. Give me one name of someone who actually gained any constructive knowledge in any of these threads. I am very conservative in these matters I guess as I do not speak about my sexual choices or perversions accept with my partner or spouse. Because I feel that these are part of ones private life and should remain so. I will never carry a flag on hetero and do not want to see one on **** either. All I asking is that post this type of shit elsewhere. When I see something I do not want to see on my TV I change channels here I am unable to do so... I would never comment on a thread say in lounge or some Non MMA area about such topics.


It's very much an MMA related topic, maybe it doesn't belong in the UFC subforum, but it definitely belongs on the board.

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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/4/9...n-fox-releases-statement-ufc-hw-matt-mitrione
Now Fallon herself has responded, releasing the following to MMA Fighting:


> "Matt Mitrione went well beyond disagreeing with the medical experts who say I should be able to compete as a woman, and personally attacked me as a fighter, as a woman, and as a human being.
> 
> "His comments do not reflect the spirit of our sport, where most competitors uphold values like respect and dignity."


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

OU said:


> http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/4/9...n-fox-releases-statement-ufc-hw-matt-mitrione
> Now Fallon herself has responded, releasing the following to MMA Fighting:


Good for her, got her point across in a civil and respectful way. 

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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

**** off fallon fox, I have had enough of your damaging and 15 minutes of fame shite


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> **** off fallon fox, I have had enough of your damaging and 15 minutes of fame shite


Page right out of Mitrione's handbook here. It's a pertinent issue that won't go away.

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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Yes because given MMA bad and unwanted attention is a good thing right


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Yes because given MMA bad and unwanted attention is a good thing right


Where did I say it was a good thing? I said it was a pertinent issue that needs to be addressed. Also, who says it's 'bad and unwanted attention'? Should we just cover our eyes and ears about the whole situation and hope it goes away? No way. 

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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> Where did I say it was a good thing? I said it was a pertinent issue that needs to be addressed. Also, who says it's 'bad and unwanted attention'? Should we just cover our eyes and ears about the whole situation and hope it goes away? No way.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


No but that applies to the people supporting fallon too and supporting a ridiculous punishment of matt, there all saying la la la la matt we can't hear you and take criticism we have to censor your thoughts and strip your rights and suspend you. 

It's nice to know UFC fighter's aren't allowed to voice there opinions without the threat of a punishment real nice, but they won't complain when said fighters are taking beatings for them to make them millions, but a couple of opinions no no we can't have that.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> No but that applies to the people supporting fallon too and supporting a ridiculous punishment of matt, there all saying la la la la matt we can't hear you and take criticism we have to censor your thoughts and strip your rights and suspend you.
> 
> It's nice to know UFC fighter's aren't allowed to voice there opinions without the threat of a punishment real nice, but they won't complain when said fighters are taking beatings for them to make them millions, but a couple of opinions no no we can't have that.


He was not suspended for his opinion OWNS, he was suspended for how he presented it. 

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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Cowgirl said:


> He was not suspended for his opinion OWNS, he was suspended for how he presented it.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


Exactly. If he had said "I completely disagree with allowing Fox to fight women in MMA because she still has male characteristics that make it an unfair fight" and left it at that, then things would have been fine. He chose to use the words he did and forced Dana's hand.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> He was not suspended for his opinion OWNS, he was suspended for how he presented it.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


That's the exact same thing, it's his opinion and he can say however loud,happy,sad,neutral or whatever way he wants to. This world won't be happy until every one is censored and kissing eachothers asses instead of letting in reality, i've seen this situation too many times before for someone to say I don't know what i'm talking about. 

So since they did suspend meathead for this bs, I want UFC fighters to be suspended for anything they say now then we will see how everyone feels, muhummed ali is laughing at the UFC and so is everyone in boxing saying lol they took away the little amount of money he can just for a few little comments lol we say worse things at the dinner table let alone to hype a fight or just a regular interview. I would fox to be sign with the UFC only for fox to cripple everyone and the UFC tanks because of it.


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## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

The people saying Mitrione's punishment was B.S. need to realize that when someone goes on a show like The MMA Hour, they are representing the UFC, and as a representative of an organization, you can't just go around blasting people like that. That was much, much more than just an opinion on Fallon, that was a personal attack, the UFC is lucky that Fallon doesn't pursue legal recourse against Mitrione for slander. 

Have whatever opinion you want on the matter, no one is trying to take that away from you. You just can't go around claiming someone is a sociopath who enjoys beating women.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Purgetheweak said:


> The people saying Mitrione's punishment was B.S. need to realize that when someone goes on a show like The MMA Hour, they are representing the UFC, and as a representative of an organization, you can't just go around blasting people like that. That was much, much more than just an opinion on Fallon, that was a personal attack, the UFC is lucky that Fallon doesn't pursue legal recourse against Mitrione for slander.
> 
> *Have whatever opinion you want on the matter, no one is trying to take that away from you. You just can't go around claiming someone is a sociopath who enjoys beating women.*


I can't believe you just contradicted yourself so quickly in the same sentence


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Purgetheweak said:


> The people saying Mitrione's punishment was B.S. need to realize that when someone goes on a show like The MMA Hour, they are representing the UFC, and as a representative of an organization, you can't just go around blasting people like that. That was much, much more than just an opinion on Fallon, that was a personal attack, the UFC is lucky that Fallon doesn't pursue legal recourse against Mitrione for slander.
> 
> Have whatever opinion you want on the matter, no one is trying to take that away from you. You just can't go around claiming someone is a sociopath who enjoys beating women.


This was really well said and basically sums up the situation very nicely.

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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

> "Matt Mitrione went well beyond disagreeing with the medical experts who say I should be able to compete as a woman, and personally attacked me as a fighter, as a woman, and as a human being.
> 
> "His comments do not reflect the spirit of our sport, where most competitors uphold values like respect and dignity."


Because nothing reflects the spirit of our sport like a an ex-man fighting woman. I'm sure her opponents felt very respected when they found out she was a man, but not until after they fought.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Spite said:


> Because nothing reflects the spirit of our sport like a an ex-man fighting woman. I'm sure her opponents felt very respected when they found out she was a man, but not until after they fought.


Yeah and "our sport" you have had 2 can fights with your advantage and you don't have a clue what your talking about with that overused and meaningless word respect that has not had any merit for a long time, the diaz bros may as well pack up and leave then and anderson too after he fought maia.


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## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

UFC_OWNS said:


> I can't believe you just contradicted yourself so quickly in the same sentence


Really? You think that's a contradiction? Let me lay it out a bit simpler so you can understand:

Your opinion is your own, no one can take it away from you.
If your opinion revolves around insulting someone, keep it to yourself. It's simple, just be quiet.
When you are speaking publicly and representing a company, if you verbally assault an individual, you will be punished.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Purgetheweak said:


> Really? You think that's a contradiction? Let me lay it out a bit simpler so you can understand:
> 
> Your opinion is your own, no one can take it away from you.
> If your opinion revolves around insulting someone, keep it to yourself. It's simple, just be quiet.
> When you are speaking publicly and representing a company, if you verbally assault an individual, you will be punished.



No no now your just trying to blue the lines, you said you can have your opinion it just can't be this way and as soon as you said that it's no longer your own true opinion and that's where the contradiction lies and it's not too difficult to see that. Whatever you guys can live in your own snow globes where everyone has to be nice and there are no naughty words or free raw opinions on matters and all that jazz.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

UFC_OWNS said:


> No no now your just trying to blue the lines, you said you can have your opinion it just can't be this way and as soon as you said that it's no longer your own true opinion and that's where the contradiction lies and it's not too difficult to see that. Whatever you guys can live in your own snow globes where everyone has to be nice and there are no naughty words or free raw opinions on matters and all that jazz.


I'd say its more of a snowglobey, solipsistic wordlview to imagine that you can be a professional world-class fighter in the public eye and say something harsh to the media without having some of the other six billion people respond with their own opinions. In this case what he said was something that would raise a lot of ire. It comes with his job, and he knew that. 

That said, guy was just trying to keep up with his best buddy McCorkle IMO.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

HexRei said:


> I'd say its more of a snowglobe lifestyle to imagine that you can be a professional world-class fighter and say something to the media without having some of the other six billion people respond with their own opinions.


Cmon hexrei don't try and play politician to try and twist my words so you can win the argument that's sad, I didn't say a word about other people having opinions even they are sensitive and terrible, what I said was it's a bunch of dog shite that these guys take big beatings to make them all the money they desire but say there opinions and everyone loses there mind. 

So please don't try and turn a phrase on me like we're in some bad sitcom where someone has to jumble words around and say falsehood in order to discredit the other person.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Cmon hexrei don't try and play politician to try and twist my words so you can win the argument that's sad, I didn't say a word about other people having opinions even they are sensitive and terrible, what I said was it's a bunch of dog shite that these guys take big beatings to make them all the money they desire but say there opinions and everyone loses there mind.
> 
> So please don't try and turn a phrase on me like we're in some bad sitcom where someone has to jumble words around and say falsehood in order to discredit the other person.


He knew what he was getting into when he signed the contract. In a world class fighting organization, you can't cross lines like he did.

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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

once again proof that people are just sifting through my words instead of actually reading them, I said I get it about oh we're a fighting company but we can't have opinions and the contracts and the PR, I just said it was beyond retarded. I don't see boxing or japanese mma orgs do the same to their fighters for their opinions


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> once again proof that people are just sifting through my words instead of actually reading them, I said I get it about oh we're a fighting company but we can't have opinions and the contracts and the PR, I just said it was beyond retarded. I don't see boxing or japanese mma orgs do the same to their fighters for their opinions


Maybe you don't see it because their fighters are respectful. 

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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> Maybe you don't see it because their fighters are respectful.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


Oh dear lord now I know your just trying to win an argument instead of just conceding, boxers are respectful now? yeah ok go back and read some ali and tyson quotes and mayweather and mayorga and margarito things I guarantee you that the overused and valueless word "respect" is nowhere to be found when they are on form.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Cmon hexrei don't try and play politician to try and twist my words so you can win the argument that's sad, I didn't say a word about other people having opinions even they are sensitive and terrible, what I said was it's a bunch of dog shite that these guys take big beatings to make them all the money they desire but say there opinions and everyone loses there mind.
> 
> So please don't try and turn a phrase on me like we're in some bad sitcom where someone has to jumble words around and say falsehood in order to discredit the other person.


I don't have to jumble anything around to be right about this. The guy has a business relationship with the UFC and he said something moronic to a reporter that makes the UFC look bad. They have an obligation to take action to separate themselves from his comments and these are the sanctions they chose (and considering its a suspension that will likely end before his next fight anyway, it's practically irrelevant). You should be glad this is all he's getting, and anyone who has ever had a job should be cognizant of this fact.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

HexRei said:


> I don't have to jumble anything around to be right about this. The guy has a business relationship with the UFC and he said something moronic to a reporter that makes the UFC look bad. The have an obligation to take action to separate themselves from his comments and these are the sanctions they chose (and considering its a suspension that will likely end before his next fight anyway, they are practically irrelevant). You should be glad this is all he's getting.


Once again I said I get the business of it all for the one millionth time that you people still can't read, you jumbled my words around so I would sound like I was saying people couldn't give their opinions on matt which I never said, i'm not a mitrione fan even so being glad for what he is getting really doesn't fit into my motive here. What I want is for the UFC to stop being a bunch of moronic nancy boys and allow anything and everything to be said whenever but I know that it will never happen, it's funny that they also let rampage go off on how bad the UFC is and don't do a fooking thing to him and he did it for quite a while too.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Once again I said I get the business of it all for the one millionth time that you people still can't read, you jumbled my words around so I would sound like I was saying people couldn't give their opinions on matt which I never said, i'm not a mitrione fan even so being glad for what he is getting really doesn't fit into my motive here. What I want is for the UFC to stop being a bunch of moronic nancy boys and allow anything and everything to be said whenever but I know that it will never happen, it's funny that they also let rampage go off on how bad the UFC is and don't do a fooking thing to him and he did it for quite a while too.


The Rampage and Mitrione situations are quite different for fairly obvious reasons though.

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## Stun Gun (Oct 24, 2012)

THIS is getting out of hand again


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

I know that but stating what the UFC allows and disallows is still worth stating, dana has really lost it in the last few years making dumber and dumber decisions.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> I know that but stating what the UFC allows and disallows is still worth stating, dana has really lost it in the last few years making dumber and dumber decisions.


Also, the Rampage incident was pre-code of conduct

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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

when was that introduced because I know for a fact he was saying his bullshite to the very end before the glover fight


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> when was that introduced because I know for a fact he was saying his bullshite to the very end before the glover fight


Let me rephrase, his extreme stuff was pre-code of conduct, when it started coming into effect he backed off slightly 

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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I don't know if I agree with an indefinite suspension. A fine, maybe. Just because the UFC claims to support LGBT rights doesn't mean that Mitrione has to. The way he expressed his opinion was out of line though. You can be respectful and disagree like Cain does but you don't have to insult someone in such a vulgar and volatile tone. 

I've read over this situation several times and I agree with Cain. I'll go ahead and say that I'm personally bothered by the idea of transsexuality. But I'm also bothered by Christians. But I would never want any of their rights to be violated. Fallon has just as much of a right to become a woman as Kirk Cameron does to be a Christian. I would have a big problem if someone were to tell Kirk Cameron he couldn't worship his God, or whatever, as long as his methods of worship don't violate the rights of others. In this case, I think Fallon is inappropriately taking advantage of the situation he's in. He shouldn't be allowed to fight women.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Agreed ari, I would hate to see my girl rowdy bec hyatt be put out by some like fox with what we know about him.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Ari said:


> I don't know if I agree with an indefinite suspension. A fine, maybe. Just because the UFC claims to support LGBT rights doesn't mean that Mitrione has to. The way he expressed his opinion was out of line though. You can be respectful and disagree like Cain does but you don't have to insult someone in such a vulgar and volatile tone.
> 
> I've read over this situation several times and I agree with Cain. I'll go ahead and say that I'm personally bothered by the idea of transsexuality. But I'm also bothered by Christians. But I would never want any of their rights to be violated. Fallon has just as much of a right to become a woman as Kirk Cameron does to be a Christian. I would have a big problem if someone were to tell Kirk Cameron he couldn't worship his God, or whatever, as long as his methods of worship don't violate the rights of others. In this case, I think Fallon is inappropriately taking advantage of the situation he's in. He shouldn't be allowed to fight women.


So you would have her not fight at all? Seems a little contradictory to your post, though I very well may have misunderstood.

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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

So let me get this straight. And I'm not making any subjective judgements here. Simply looking at this objectively...

Hypothetically, If Jose Aldo were to have a sex change operation and begin taking estrogen or whatever it is that happens in this process - he could then conceivably make 135lbs and compete in a fist fight against 135lb women...Think that over for a second. lol


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

towwffc said:


> So let me get this straight. And I'm not making any subjective judgements here. Simply looking at this objectively...
> 
> Hypothetically, If Jose Aldo were to have a sex change operation and begin taking estrogen or whatever it is that happens in this process - he could then conceivably make 135lbs and compete in a fist fight against 135lb women...Think that over for a second. lol


Take a look back at the other posters who brought up the same point already, it's been discussed ad nauseam.

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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> So you would have her not fight at all? Seems a little contradictory to your post, though I very well may have misunderstood.


I don't see what's contradictory about it. Like I said earlier, Fallon has every right to get gender reassignment surgery. I think it's weird and gross but at the end of the day I don't care. As long as your actions don't interfere with my daily life or the rights of someone else then do whatever the hell you want has always been my policy. But this is MMA, a combat sport which involves physical damage to the body. Fallon still has the bone density and structure of a man and men are naturally on average stronger than women. I believe that gives her an unfair advantage over other FMMA competitors that Rousey, Coenen, and Tate, who don't have the luxury of that advantage. So no, he shouldn't be able to fight women. If he wants to fight, I think he should regrow his pole and start fighting men.


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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

towwffc said:


> So let me get this straight. And I'm not making any subjective judgements here. Simply looking at this objectively...
> 
> Hypothetically, If Jose Aldo were to have a sex change operation and begin taking estrogen or whatever it is that happens in this process - he could then conceivably make 135lbs and compete in a fist fight against 135lb women...Think that over for a second. lol


I believe to compete in the Olympics you have to be on hormones for a minimum of 5 years? I don't know the requirements for athletic commissions in MMA or if there is any. But yeah theoretically Ben Askren could have a sex change operation and begin hormone therapy and in 5 years he can compete against women in the Olympics in wrestling....that's if wrestling was still in the Olympics.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Exactly as ari said, it's not like we are forbidding people to not be able to change gender as much as it isn't a rationale thought to us, we're saying that said rearranged sex patient should not be able to now compete in the new sexes sports.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Ari said:


> I don't see what's contradictory about it. Like I said earlier, Fallon has every right to get gender reassignment surgery. I think it's weird and gross but at the end of the day I don't care. As long as your actions don't interfere with my daily life or the rights of someone else then do whatever the hell you want has always been my policy. But this is MMA, a combat sport which involves physical damage to the body. Fallon still has the bone density and structure of a man and men are naturally on average stronger than women. I believe that gives her an unfair advantage over other FMMA competitors that Rousey, Coenen, and Tate, who don't have the luxury of that advantage. So no, he shouldn't be able to fight women. If he wants to fight, I think he should regrow his pole and start fighting men.


It's contradictory because you say you are against infringing on her rights, but then say that she can't fight women. To me, the statement that matches that policy would be that as long as the women she is fighting are aware of her past. 

I don't know how many more times I can point out that HRT and SRS drastically change the body's composition, changing bone density, structure and a whole lot more. 


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Eh, the more I think about it, the more I find myself going back to my initial comment on the matter. Whether I agree with Fox fighting women or not, if her opponents are aware of the situation and consent to fighting her, then by all means - let Fallon fight. 

That's really what it comes down to. Informed consent. If a woman is willing to step into a cage with a transgender woman, then have at it.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Eh, the more I think about it, the more I find myself going back to my initial comment on the matter. Whether I agree with Fox fighting women or not, if her opponents are aware of the situation and consent to fighting her, then by all means - let Fallon fight.
> 
> That's really what it comes down to. Informed consent. If a woman is willing to step into the cage with a transgender woman, then have at it.


And let the bee stung faces of her opponents commence:hug:


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Once again I said I get the business of it all for the one millionth time that you people still can't read, you jumbled my words around so I would sound like I was saying people couldn't give their opinions on matt which I never said, i'm not a mitrione fan even so being glad for what he is getting really doesn't fit into my motive here. What I want is for the UFC to stop being a bunch of moronic nancy boys and allow anything and everything to be said whenever but I know that it will never happen, it's funny that they also let rampage go off on how bad the UFC is and don't do a fooking thing to him and he did it for quite a while too.


there is someone jumbling words around but its not me. I never claimed you were saying people couldn't give their opinions on Matt. I was saying that those opinions are meaningful. The UFC won't do what you want because of that fact. And that's the nature of a free society. Everyone has a free choice, but we also feel social pressure.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Eh, the more I think about it, the more I find myself going back to my initial comment on the matter. Whether I agree with Fox fighting women or not, if her opponents are aware of the situation and consent to fighting her, then by all means - let Fallon fight.
> 
> That's really what it comes down to. Informed consent. If a woman is willing to step into a cage with a transgender woman, then have at it.


Exactly. I'll also take this time to reiterate that this is how I feel as well, since people have repped me for the wrong reason  

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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Eh, the more I think about it, the more I find myself going back to my initial comment on the matter. Whether I agree with Fox fighting women or not, if her opponents are aware of the situation and consent to fighting her, then by all means - let Fallon fight.
> 
> That's really what it comes down to. Informed consent. If a woman is willing to step into a cage with a transgender woman, then have at it.


I see that point. But if this person is allowed to fight, and ends up an undefeated "women's" champion with a 30-0 record and 28 brutal ko's, I highly doubt anybody will consider it legitimate. But thats just my opinion of course.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

towwffc said:


> I see that point. But if this person is allowed to fight, and ends up an undefeated "women's" champion with a 30-0 record and 28 brutal ko's, I highly doubt anybody will consider it legitimate. But thats just my opinion of course.


It's highly unlikely that this would happen. Come on guys, Fallon has beat nothing but cans so far, I still think any high level competition that is willing to get in the cage with her would probably beat her. Unfortunately you're right though in that any success she enjoys will most definitely be questioned. No matter how much proof there is that major body changes occur during HRT and SRS, there will always be haters.

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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> It's contradictory because you say you are against infringing on her rights, but then say that she can't fight women. To me, the statement that matches that policy would be that as long as the women she is fighting are aware of her past.
> 
> I don't know how many more times I can point out that HRT and SRS drastically change the body's composition, changing bone density, structure and a whole lot more.
> 
> ...


I said I'm against infringing on his rights to become a transsexual. I'm all for an individual exercising their rights as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others. In this situation, I personally believe that Fallon has an unfair advantage because I still think/believe that he is a man with natural advantages that women don't have and is thusly unfair. 

What if Joe Silva slated Liz Carmouche to fight Eddie Wineland? Even if Liz agreed to it, and I'm sure she would, it would never happen because Eddie has so many natural advantages over Liz and the commission wouldn't allow it. What about if Frankie were to fight Cain? Despite the fact that Cain has damn near 90 lbs on Frankie. Same thing would happen. It's unfair to Frankie and the commission wouldn't allow it. If I were the commission I wouldn't let a man fight a woman. And I think Fallon is a man. But I'm also not the commission. If the commission does allow him to fight a woman with prior consent...Then whatever. I don't have to agree with it, and I WON'T agree with it, but there's nothing I can do.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

Ari said:


> I said I'm against infringing on his rights to become a transsexual. I'm all for an individual exercising their rights as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others. In this situation, I personally believe that Fallon has an unfair advantage because I still think/believe that he is a man with natural advantages that women don't have and is thusly unfair.
> 
> What if Joe Silva slated Liz Carmouche to fight Eddie Wineland? Even if Liz agreed to it, and I'm sure she would, it would never happen because Eddie has so many natural advantages over Liz and the commission wouldn't allow it. What about if Frankie were to fight Cain? Despite the fact that Cain has damn near 90 lbs on Frankie. Same thing would happen. It's unfair to Frankie and the commission wouldn't allow it. If I were the commission I wouldn't let a man fight a woman. And I think Fallon is a man. But I'm also not the commission. If the commission does allow him to fight a woman with prior consent...Then whatever. I don't have to agree with it, and I WON'T agree with it, but there's nothing I can do.
> 
> And I've read several articles about HRT and SRS in light of this controversy and I agree that SRS and HRT do change bone structure and density. At first I was on Fallon's side, then I started reading more and more into it. Fallon is always going to have higher levels of testosterone and greater bone density even though they may decrease with his hormone therapy. It's just not fair in my opinion.


I figured I had just misunderstood your post, thanks for clarifying  the examples you give have nothing to do with the current situation though. You acknowledge that body composition changes, but then you liken the situation to a natural born female fighting a natural born male who hasn't taken any steps to become a woman. 

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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6_7BOGUXHM

Cowgirl, I am curious what your response would be to this video. Because I tend to agree with Joe Rogan here. Not only on bone structure/density, mass distribution etc...But if one transgender person does this and is successful, there are a lot of dudes out there who may follow suit simply for fame and attention.

Once again it's just my opinion. But I'd rather we just didn't open this can of worms.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

From what I've read hormone therapy will only decrease bone density and structure to a certain extent without contributing to rish of health issues such as osteoperosis and such. Also Fallon is still going to produce higher amounts of testosterone than the women he is fighting, even if he is continually taking estrogen hormones.


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## Hexabob69 (Nov 8, 2008)

I am sure that most here are so in touch with our kinder and gentler society that it would not bother them if this feMale wanted to beat up their sister...

I am not against the fighting I am against the fighting of women... Fighting a man now I would be all for but even Fox knows how that would go; must be the reason they were so successful as a fighter before.


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

towwffc said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6_7BOGUXHM
> 
> Cowgirl, I am curious what your response would be to this video. Because I tend to agree with Joe Rogan here. Not only on bone structure/density, mass distribution etc...But if one transgender person does this and is successful, there are a lot of dudes out there who may follow suit simply for fame and attention.
> 
> Once again it's just my opinion. But I'd rather we just didn't open this can of worms.


Rogan's opinion on the matter is moot, there is scientific proof that the body structure changes.

I'm sorry, but if you honestly think any ol' guy is just going to be trans just for the fame and attention, you are far more foolish than I thought. 

Ari, how do you figure she'll produce more testosterone? She's completed SRS. 

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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Hexabob69 said:


> I am sure that most here are so in touch with our kinder and gentler society that it would not bother them if this feMale wanted to beat up their sister...
> 
> I am not against the fighting I am against the fighting of women... Fighting a man now I would be all for but even Fox knows how that would go; must be the reason they were so successful as a fighter before.


If my sister wanted to fight Fallon in a sanctioned MMA fight I wouldn't have a problem with that. :dunno:


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Please show mercy and let this topic die and never come back


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Please show mercy and let this topic die and never come back


My suggestion to you then would be to stop coming into this thread, makes sense to me. I don't go into threads I don't like. :dunno: 

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## OU (Sep 26, 2012)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Please show mercy and let this topic die and never come back


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> My suggestion to you then would be to stop coming into this thread, makes sense to me. I don't go into threads I don't like. :dunno:
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


My suggestion is to ban topics like this since all it does is bring up bad feelings in people, is this stupid freak really worth MMA dealing with if every person with an opinion for or against her gets in arguments about it?


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> My suggestion is to ban topics like this since all it does is bring up bad feelings in people, is this stupid freak really worth MMA dealing with if every person with an opinion for or against her gets in arguments about it?


No one is being argumentative here, she isn't a stupid freak, and it's an important subject.

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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Cowgirl said:


> No one is being argumentative here, she isn't a stupid freak, and it's an important subject.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com App


Ah and that's where our opinions differs again, let me ask you what do you want to happen with the fox and the (please god now) future of these types of issues


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## Cookie Monster (Jan 5, 2013)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Ah and that's where our opinions differs again, let me ask you what do you want to happen with the fox and the (please god now) future of these types of issues


Informed consent is the name of the game.

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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

> Rogan's opinion on the matter is moot, there is scientific proof that the body structure changes.
> 
> I'm sorry, but if you honestly think any ol' guy is just going to be trans just for the fame and attention, you are far more foolish than I thought.


Woah Nelly, let's ease up on the name calling. Also don't give humanity so much credit in the year 2013. I do indeed believe there are people out there who would do ANYTHING for fame and attention.

And getting a sex change just so you can fight women and increase your odds of being a success is included in ANYTHING.

Of course this may be a bit of an extreme opinion, and it's possible that it MAY not happen. But it is still a valid opinion none the less. People do crazy s**t for there 15 minutes of fame during this youtube generation. But I digress..


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## Hexabob69 (Nov 8, 2008)

Let's talk about abortion and religion here... I wish some of your parents were not Catholic so they could have had an abortion.... 









Yes I know some may have been offended... But I am in belief that at least 1% agreed... I guess that only counts when one is opressed


I am sick of reading this shit on an MMA site... Read SI or some of the other shit if this is your bag... I am here for fighting and not bullying


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

I probably already mentioned it but back I believe in the 70's there was a shitty male tennis player who I also think was a doctor, so he gets a sex change and shortly after he resumes tennis playing but this time as a woman. But this time he isn't shite he's exceptional, but when I say exceptional his skills are no better but they are against his opponents.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Yeah that will do it for this thread.

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