# A picture worth a thousand words.



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

> I got chills as soon as I saw this. I have seen this picture a thousand times and it says a thousand things. You’ve seen it too. A young upstart is in front, excited, loud. The old lion stands in the back eyeing him. Quiet. Knowing. The word is sorely misused and overused, but this is classic.
> 
> Jon Jones: "God is so good. I feel so great. I’m going for a world title, baby. Let’s do it!"
> 
> ...



That truly is an EPIC picture. The way Shogun is looking at Jones is just scary. Truly a look you give someone when you are thinking "You dont know what your in for"

I bet you all thought it was the pic of AS kicking Belfort.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

that's one serious mug.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

shogun was actually checking out brittney palmer across the ring.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Shogun is not going to fear the hype, everyone else who's been in with Jones no matter what they say was at least a little afraid or intimidated by him and as soon as they locked up they were beat. 

Shogun is not going to fear Jones, all he is, is some kid come to take his belt.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

cool article :thumbsup:


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

HexRei said:


> shogun was actually checking out brittney palmer across the ring.


Lawl...

If i was Brittney id be petrified. That is a very scary look to be checked out by. Thats a look that says "Il see YOU in the parking lot later"


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Shogun is scurred.


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## box (Oct 15, 2006)

Jones played with Bader like a toy. A serious wreslter got handled like nothing. Shogun would be in for a world of trouble. This pic gives him a glimmer of hope, but nah, I can't believe anyone but Silva would cause Jones problems.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Shogun always either has a vacant look on his face or one that suggests he is plotting a murder.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

osmium said:


> Shogun always either has a vacant look on his face or one that suggests he is plotting a murder.


or that dreamy model look.


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## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

Shogun via kneebar.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

The interesting thing is, if Machida were the champ still JBJ would probably be the underdog. Funny how it works out. 

Definitely an even worse match up for Shogun than Rashad. Rashad is slower and has a suspect chin. We still don't know about JBJ. He probably doesn't know how he takes a shot. 

I think I see Rua getting battered in the opening rounds with constant takedowns/GNP then to come back in the fourth or fifth after JBJ tires out big time for the come from behind win. 

Shogun's Achilles heel is his takedown defense especially with a weakened knee, this goes for most non Westerners as wrestling isn't ingrained in them like BJJ is. Lets expect his cardio and conditioning to be 100% then I think that scenario I listed up top is likely. If JBJ wins by KO I will be surprised. 

I expect a serious war of attrition with JBJ trying to land a lot of high flying moves in between constant take downs. That will tire him out. Shogun goes for the constant sweep and is very active in the guard. Plus he has a very strong chin. He can withstand some GNP to an extent. Enough to allow him to survive a round or two. 

If this plays out the way it does I'd have to buy myself a KEG of beer!


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Just wanna ask real quick. Would Shogun struggle with Hamill, Bader, Vera, or Bonnar?


At Jones' age Shogun had just beaten Rampage, Arona, Lil Nog, and Overeem to win the Pride Grand Prix. 


This fight is going to make me a lot of money.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> Just wanna ask real quick. Would Shogun struggle with Hamill, Bader, Vera, or Bonnar?
> 
> 
> At Jones' age Shogun had just beaten Rampage, Arona, Lil Nog, and Overeem to win the Pride Grand Prix.
> ...


I think Shogun is beating JBJ but i do think Shogun would struggle more against Hamill and Bader then JBJ did. I also think Vera vs Shogun would make for a good standup fight. Shogun would dominate though.


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## Black_S15 (Jul 14, 2010)

when shogun was walking in the octogan, i was hoping they didnt do some fake cheesy WWE style confrontation lol.

they both showed alot of respect for eachother which was good.

going to be a cracker of a fight.

war shogun!


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

khoveraki said:


> Just wanna ask real quick. Would Shogun struggle with Hamill, Bader, Vera, or Bonnar?
> 
> 
> At Jones' age Shogun had just beaten Rampage, Arona, Lil Nog, and Overeem to win the Pride Grand Prix.
> ...



What site are you betting on. JBJ is at -195...interestingly enough. 



SideWays222 said:


> I think Shogun is beating JBJ but i do think Shogun would struggle more against Hamill and Bader then JBJ did. I also think Vera vs Shogun would make for a good standup fight. Shogun would dominate though.


Problem is Bader, Hamill would just grind their way. Nothing special, just takedown, GNP, rinse, repeat, recycle. At least with JBJ he'll mix it up. But we all want to see two elite strikers; Shogun vs Anderson. 

If JBJ wins it might be a changing of the guard. Pulling for Shogun though.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> I think Shogun is beating JBJ but i do think Shogun would struggle more against Hamill and Bader then JBJ did. I also think Vera vs Shogun would make for a good standup fight. Shogun would dominate though.



I dunno. Lyoto is a way better wrestler, striker, BJJ guy than Hamill or Bader and he had no problem walking through him the second time. 


I just don't see how Jones can win. There's no way he's finishing Rua with elbows. And Jones will gas faster in the championship rounds if it goes that long, he started to look tired vs Bader and Bonnar.


Plus look how easily Rua dispatched Overeem. The dude 2-3" taller than Jones and only has a little bit less reach (81.5").


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Vera could hang with Shogun standing for a while. I doubt Hammil and Bader would look as bad also but he would stop both of them.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> I dunno. Lyoto is a way better wrestler, striker, BJJ guy than Hamill or Bader and he had no problem walking through him the second time.
> 
> 
> I just don't see how Jones can win. There's no way he's finishing Rua with elbows. And Jones will gas faster in the championship rounds if it goes that long, he started to look tired vs Bader and Bonnar.
> ...


Well Machida certainly isnt a better "wrestler" then Hamill or Bader. If they got on a wrestling mat Machida would get toyed with. 

I agree that i dont see how Bones is beating Rua. If he takes him down i dont see him keeping him down. Shogun can submit those long limbs of Bones. And if he throws those flying kicks he will be out cold before he hits the floor.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

absolutely kick ass picture. wish it was a better ratio so i could make it a wallpaper!


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

khoveraki said:


> Just wanna ask real quick. Would Shogun struggle with Hamill, Bader, Vera, or Bonnar?
> 
> 
> At Jones' age Shogun had just beaten Rampage, Arona, Lil Nog, and Overeem to win the Pride Grand Prix.
> ...


Are you trying to tell me you think JBJ struggled vs those guys?

Just wanna ask real quick. Would JBJ struggle against a +40 yr old Coleman?


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Mirage445 said:


> Are you trying to tell me you think JBJ struggled vs those guys?
> 
> Just wanna ask real quick. Would JBJ struggle against a +40 yr old Coleman?


or get choked out by griffin... koff. what that shows is shoguns inconsistency which is part of what i meant when i said work ethic. obviously injuries played into it as well. but bones has so far been very consistent.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> Well Machida certainly isnt a better "wrestler" then Hamill or Bader. If they got on a wrestling mat Machida would get toyed with.
> 
> I agree that i dont see how Bones is beating Rua. If he takes him down i dont see him keeping him down. Shogun can submit those long limbs of Bones. And if he throws those flying kicks he will be out cold before he hits the floor.




Machida's wrestling is not to be understated. 


Agreed though. Jones will be the one coming in nervous for this fight.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Shogu isn't worried. But Jones isn't either. And that is scary coming from a guy with his physical ability. Could go either way. Jones rolls and we say he is unstoppable or Shogun ends the fight and we say Jones it still to young. Could be either in my opinion.

Either way Jones is the real deal. A lot of room for improvement...that is the scary part.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

A very close fight, with Shogun pulling it out casue of experience.

I don't see Shogun submitting Jones nore do I see him decisioning him, cause Jones will ragdoll Shogun around the ring from the get go.

However, Shogun might be able to spring up and keep it standing enough to put Jones out on the feet.

The only way I see Shogun winning this fight is KO/TKO in the first few rounds, unless his cardio is top notch, then he still only has the KO/TKO way to win, but much more time to do it.

This fight simply depends on if Jones can continue to not get subbed (I think he can) and continue to throw Shogun down and not give him time to strike.

Personally, I see the first few rounds going straight to Jones, but eventually Shogun is going to get the TKO, just cause he's a beast at striking and has some serious, serious power, and those flashy kicks Jones likes is going to get him KO'd by an elite striker like Shogun. His experience will net him the ability to not fall for the flashy kicks, and allow him to stay composed enough to find the space to get that KO.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> Just wanna ask real quick. Would Shogun struggle with Hamill, Bader, Vera, or Bonnar?
> 
> 
> At Jones' age Shogun had just beaten Rampage, Arona, Lil Nog, and Overeem to win the Pride Grand Prix.
> ...


I understand what you mean, but Shogun has never really been the same fighter he was in PRIDE after his knee injury. He's shown glimmers of his former self and occasionally rounds like his former self, but he's never fully been that fighter again. It seems to me that with every fight he gets closer and closer to attaining that profile again, but with him coming off yet ANOTHER injury and having a month to train for Bones (I imagine JBJ is a much harder fighter to train for since not many can match his style and body type) it may be a sort of regression... I'm worried for Shogun as much as I am for Bones. If Shogun continues his re-evolving and comes into this fight as the Shogun that destroyed PRIDE, he'll win this fight (I'm guessing via some sort of "-bar"). If he comes in as the Shogun who fought Forrest, Coleman or even Chuck, he's in for one hell of a night. This fight is seriously interesting on a LOT of levels though.


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## dutch sauce (Sep 24, 2006)

if the hype of fighting lyoto didnt get to him this wont either.


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

As far as the styles make match-ups (Shogun, quite takedown prone). Shogun matches up worse than anyone else against JBJ. I'm pretty sure he's taken every fighter to the ground via throws, slams or takedowns.

I'll break it down:

Stand-up - Shogun ++
Grappling - Shogun ++
Footwork - Shogun ++
Clinch Striking - Tie
Endurance - Tie
Footwork - Tie
Speed - JBJ +
Takedowns - JBJ ++++
GnP - JBJ ++

JBJ weaknesses - Unknown.. Shogun Weakness - Very prone to takedowns. 

JBJ wanted to not fight another wrestler, he got one. JBJ still +1


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy (Feb 2, 2009)

Jones was breathing heavily and seemed pretty damn nervous before the Bader fight. He might not have seemed that nervous last night, but I'd attribute that to winning a big fight, getting a shitle tot and reality not setting in yet.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MrObjective said:


> I'll break it down:
> 
> *Stand-up - Shogun +++
> Grappling - Tie (BJJ isnt the only thing in grappling)
> ...


Thats my opinion. Why did u write footwork twice? not only that but you gave them different results.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Jones and Rua are equal in GnP in my opinion. The punch he knocked out Overeem with in Rua vs Reem II is still probably the best ground and pound KO of all time. Not to mention Diabate, Arona, etc.


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## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

I love the argument that "this guy beat this guy this easily"
Its complete nonsense talk. All that matters is what these two guys bring to the table the night of the fight.
Shogun will bring a wealth of experience, superior striking skills no doubt but will his card be there, we don't know.
Bones will bring great wrestling and great top control. 

Will shoguns ground game negate jones' top control? Could be a big factor if shogun can force bones to strike with him. 

Anyways, that picture shows a great competitive side of shogun. I'm much more excited to see this opposed to rashad.


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## mo25 (Feb 7, 2011)




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## rul3z (Jun 27, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> Shogun is not going to fear the hype, everyone else who's been in with Jones no matter what they say was at least a little afraid or intimidated by him and as soon as they locked up they were beat.
> 
> Shogun is not going to fear Jones, all he is, is *some kid* come to take his belt.


I really hope we see what you shall say when this "KID" takes his belt, and even crushes him with those vicious elbows


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

*Awesome picture of Shogun and Jones*










I felt this was thread worthy.

Discuss.


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

I agree this is thread worthy, and I think Shogun is in some serious trouble.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

BrianRClover said:


> I agree this is thread worthy, and I think Shogun is in some serious trouble.


That pic gives me goosebumps lol. Just look at the look on Ruas face. I think Shogun wants to send a message to the MMA world here, he wants Jon Jones dead!

I think he sees Jones as kind of like himself when he was 23 years old, tearing it up in Pride.

Man, I cant wait.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

That look says "Scream while you can".


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/87220-picture-worth-thousand-words.html


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## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

Awesome pic! To see Shogun in another light than the usual nice-and-laid-back. It's the chute boxer within him. When he entered the octagon I thought of the classic Wanderlei/Rampage clash. Of course he didn't go full out aggressive like only Wand can but still it was an air of malice around him. 

I like JBJ but man, Shogun is a different animal from the type and level of competion he has faced before.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Nice picture indeed, totally thread worthy.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

I have been watching Shoguns TWO stoppages of Alistair Overeem all day. 

Shogun is a sick fighter, i'm 100% pulling for him and this photo does the job on getting me pumped.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/87230-awesome-picture-shogun-jones.html

Merge threads maybe?


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

That´s just his face. Only a casual look, doesn´t show nothing in particular.
Stop making movies out of nothing or move to Hollywood!


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## leew11k (Nov 19, 2006)

jones maybe that dam good but never write shogun off as so many did in the past now look at him, and this could be 1 of the best matches ever hopefully just like shogun vs lil nog, am always going to take shogun against anyone.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> That truly is an EPIC picture. The way Shogun is looking at Jones is just scary. Truly a look you give someone when you are thinking "You dont know what your in for"
> 
> I bet you all thought it was the pic of AS kicking Belfort.


He's looking at Jones' mid section...You know....the area where the BELT goes! 

Maybe Shogun already envisioned Jones with the belt arround his weist! 

Hmmmm...



HexRei said:


> shogun was actually checking out brittney palmer across the ring.


Checking out my girlfriend?! :angry08:


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

limba said:


> Checking out my girlfriend?! :angry08:


Yeah, you will have to fight Shogun now and there's no other way to solve this problem Good luck!


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

You see... I don't think Ryan Bader could look that mean no matter how hard he tries!

I knew Jones would beat Bader. Not particularly because I was convinced Bones is superman... but rather, because I'm completely unimpressed with Baders evolution since TUF.

Now, Rua is a monster. Make no mistake, this fight is not the natural next step for Jones. This is BIG step up compared to anything hes faced before. Anybody trying to figure how the fight might go, by looking at Bones fights up to now, and trying to apply some kind of MMA math... are delusional.

I absolutely have not an inkling how the fight will go. Its a VERY exciting prospect. Wow.

All I hope is that Rua and Bones are 100% healthy come fight time.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> That pic gives me goosebumps lol. Just look at the look on Ruas face. I think Shogun wants to send a message to the MMA world here, he wants Jon Jones dead!
> 
> *I think he sees Jones as kind of like himself when he was 23 years old, tearing it up in Pride.*
> 
> Man, I cant wait.


On March 19 2011, Jon "Bones" Jones will fight dor the first time for a title.
He will be 23 yrs and 8 months old.
His professional record: 12-1. With 10 stoppages.
(even though Jones was destroying Hamill and that loss is complete BS...officially it's a loss)

On August 28 2005, Mauricio "Shogun" Rua fought for the first time for a title, in the Pride Middleweight GP.
He was 24 yrs and 3 months old.
His professional record at that time: 11-1. With 10 stoppages.

So...very very similar!

PS: Shogun won the title on that night!

JONES WILL DO THE SAME! :thumbsup:



Soojooko said:


> You see... I don't think Ryan Bader could look that mean no matter how hard he tries!
> 
> I knew Jones would beat Bader. Not particularly because I was convinced Bones is superman... but rather, because I'm completely unimpressed with Baders evolution since TUF.
> 
> ...


That's *RIDICULOUS* ! 

I somewhat agree...it's not 100% the natural step up for Jones. More like 80% lol

But let's be serious!
Who would pass out on this kind of an opportunity?!
Any fighter in the world would take this fight.

Like you said. Let's hope both of them will be 110% physically healthy.

Weird fact: Rua will be going in this fight after a long lay off, while Jones will go in the fight after a very short break...In fact...no brake at all. I hope that won't be a problem. 

Can't freakin wait!
41 days to go!


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## MILFHunter947 (Jan 30, 2010)

naw not 1000 words...


i'd say about tree fiddy


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

limba said:


> That's *RIDICULOUS* !
> 
> I somewhat agree...it's not 100% the natural step up for Jones. More like 80% lol
> 
> ...


What I was meaning, old friend, was that when you look at Bones progression from fighter to fighter, the quality hasnt really increased hugely. Bonnar, Hamill, Vera and Matyushenko are all reasonably equal skills wise, when compared to Rua, who is on a whole other page. Rua would beat that lot as convincingly as Bones did, IMO.

this is a massive step forward compared to all his previous steps. Massive.

Damn right he should take the chance. He must know he stands a good chance of winning. He would be foolish to not grab it with both hands. Even if he loses, the experience will do him no harm at all. He'll make it to the top eventually, I have no doubt.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Very nice find Keever...:thumbsup: Great shot, I love the look of disgust on Shoguns face, it almost implies, you dont belong in here with me......

+ rep


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Soojooko said:


> What I was meaning, old friend, was that when you look at Bones progression from fighter to fighter, the quality hasnt really increased hugely. Bonnar, Hamill, Vera and Matyushenko are all reasonably equal skills wise, when compared to Rua, who is on a whole other page. *Rua would beat that lot as convincingly as Bones did, IMO.*
> 
> this is a massive step forward compared to all his previous steps. Massive.
> 
> Damn right he should take the chance. He must know he stands a good chance of winning. He would be foolish to not grab it with both hands. Even if he loses, the experience will do him no harm at all. He'll make it to the top eventually, I have no doubt.


The bolded part Soojooko!

That's what makes this even more exciting!
I have no doubt Shogun would destroy all those guys, just like Jones.
But, probably, using different methods: strikes, kicks, knees, muay-thai clinch...and possibly some ground and pound as a result of knocking down the other fighter.
But the end result would be the same imo.

Jones destroyed them, by using other tools. But still, he looked impressive!

It's gonna be a battle of styles.
The one who will be able to impose his style will win.

And that's why i believe this fight is PERFECT!
Aggressive fighters, with great killer instinct, dynamic, explosve, creative - ready to engage in a war!

I have never been so excited for a fight!
Ever! :thumbsup:


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

limba said:


> On March 19 2011, Jon "Bones" Jones will fight dor the first time for a title.
> He will be 23 yrs and 8 months old.
> His professional record: 12-1. With 10 stoppages.
> (even though Jones was destroying Hamill and that loss is complete BS...officially it's a loss)
> ...


Cool story. JBJ is like a slightly younger version of Shogun. Can't wait for this fight.


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

I might be one of the only people that doesn't think Jones is overhyped. If anything I think he's being undersold, I really think he's that damn good.

Having said that, SO IS SHOGUN!

A lot of people are talkinga bout GSP/Silva, or even Shogun/Silva... I personally think we've got a super fight right here in front of us!


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## TheReturn (Sep 26, 2010)

Shogun has a nasty look on his face lol, hope he delivers what that look implys.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Shogun does look to have a look of some concern on his face to say "dam this guy is going to take some stopping"


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## fenderman80 (Sep 12, 2006)

Great photo!!! Shogun has the "you're dead bitch" look on his face!


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Threads merged. :thumbsup:


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## Mike28 (Aug 11, 2010)

He can look like that all he wants but I really don't see Shogun beating Jones.


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## f4rtknock3r (Nov 22, 2010)

A fighter always has a chance of winning but I cant believe you guys actually think jones is going to win.....Shogun went 5 rounds no problem against machida non-stop. Jones was gassed out against Bonnar third round. Flashy Mr.fantastic rubber arms is not going to save him against shougun. If he takes him down then what?


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

Shogun is the guy who scoffed at Machida's 15-0, at the way he embarassed his opponent's with his style. Shogun found the ***** in his armor. 

Why would a guy 12-1 with only 2 ranked opponents frighten him? Even if the performances were dominant. 

Dah Shogun fears nuhzing!

I have not been this excited for a fight including Shogun since Machida 1. And a fight including Jones since Bonnar. 

I estimate a bajillon fireworks, followed by a referee stoppage!


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## mathruD (Aug 16, 2009)

i don't think shogun is scared of bones by any means, but i have to take bones in this fight, even if he is young and relatively inexperienced. and i don't see this fight going five rounds. i say no more than three with someone getting knocked out.

i fully expect a great fight, though, and i'm not opposed to either fighter winning.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

f4rtknock3r said:


> A fighter always has a chance of winning but *I cant believe you guys actually think jones is going to win*


Yeah...there's a lot of crazy people like us...
I can't believe you actually wrote that! :sarcastic12:

Very skilled fighter vs very skilled fighter.
You're right...how did i not see this?!



f4rtknock3r said:


> .....Shogun went 5 rounds no problem against machida non-stop. *Jones was gassed out against Bonnar third round.* Flashy Mr.fantastic rubber arms is not going to save him against shougun. If he takes him down then what?


That was 2 years ago.
He wasn't training at the level he is now.
He's a member of Jackson camp for more than a year now.
I'm prety sure his conditioning is TOP notch.
They don't mess arround at Jackson camp.

_(Carwin gassing himself out against Lesnar is an exception)_


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

limba said:


> Yeah...there's a lot of crazy people like us...
> I can't believe you actually wrote that! :sarcastic12:
> 
> Very skilled fighter vs very skilled fighter.
> ...


I'm pretty sure that dolphins and whales can walk on their fins and wield automatic weapons. They just let those poachers kill them as a ruse! 

See! I can imply things without any data to back it up too!:thumb02:

Akiyama gassed against Bisping. 

Carwin is a storied tale of absolute failure. 

Marquardt either gassed or forgot where he was against Okami, but both gassing or amnesia are serious issues...


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Jones has looked unstoppable. This is a fact. But in reality, he has beaten nobody even remotely close to Shogun's caliber. Not to say that Jones won't win, but I think it is insane to count out shogun even the slightest bit in this fight. Jones is most definitely the underdog here.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

I think if Jones plays a smart wrestlers game he wins with g-n-p elbows.

If he tries to play standup with the same style and form he used Sat night he will get badly hurt. But, I think he's too smart for that.

This fight sucks. I wanted Randy to be the wrestler to beat Shogun and take one more belt into retirement.

I don't think he's interested in fighting Jones or Rashad and I don't blame him.


^^^ the above is the expert opinion of a man who hasn't picked a fight right since Couture/Toney


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

I think probably five or six people that Shogun has dominated would beat Jones right now.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Squirrelfighter said:


> I'm pretty sure that dolphins and whales can walk on their fins and wield automatic weapons. They just let those poachers kill them as a ruse!
> 
> See! I can imply things without any data to back it up too!:thumb02:
> 
> ...


I can play this game also: aaaaaah, Shogun looked horrible against a 43 year old wrestler with shit striking and conditioning, named Mark Coleman.
It took him 14 minutes to put him away!

And btw: Shogun was coming after a long lay off in that fight. What do you know?!....he will fight Jones after another long lay off.

Oooops!
Or does this not count?!...

And about the conditioning at Jackson camp! 
Do you really think Jones isn't taking conditioning seriously or what?!
The gassing against Bonnar happened 2 years ago, when he was still a noob in MMA and he wasn't training at an established camp such as Jackson. With wrold renowned trainers.

You picked the examples you liked: 
- Carwin is an exception - he gassed himself out
- Marquardt wasn't gassed as much as he was too cautious and scared to engage. And Okami is a huge MW, very strong, with excellent control. He just controlled Nate
- Akiyama is not a member of Jackson Camp. He always had shit contitioning

Now it's my time to give you some examples of great conditioning involving fighters training at Jackson camp: GSP, Clay Guida, Evans, Condit, Sanchez, Stann, Cerrone....
Enough?!



oldfan said:


> I think if Jones plays a smart wrestlers game he wins with g-n-p elbows.
> 
> If he tries to play standup with the same style and form he used Sat night he will get badly hurt. But, *I think he's too smart for that.*


Me too!
Enough said!


----------



## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Hey Limba you down for a sigbet come March?


I'll up the odds too. If Shogun doesn't *finish* Jones then you don't even have to wear the signature, but if he does you have to wear it for two months.


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

It's a cool picture. I'm actually giving the edge to Jones. If anyone can club him down it's Shogun but I think Jones' reach and wrestling present such a problem to everybody.


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

coldcall420 said:


> Very nice find Keever...:thumbsup: Great shot, I love the look of disgust on Shoguns face, it almost implies, you dont belong in here with me......
> 
> + rep


lol i dont think Shogun was thinking that, i remember Shogun complimenting Jones that he was too good. I bet Shogun was just looking at him and thinking he better enjoy this cause this is as far as you'll get.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Hey Limba you down for a sigbet come March?
> 
> 
> I'll up the odds too. If Shogun doesn't *finish* Jones then you don't even have to wear the signature, but if he does you have to wear it for two months.


LOL
Signature as in "words signature" or "graphic signature"?

I never did stuff like this. I don't like taking bets when one of my favorites athletes/team is involved. Wheater it's soccer, basketball, football. Maybe it sounds weird, but it's a thing of mine. A superstition.
Jones and GSP in MMA.

Any other fighters, i am down for it.

I am guessing you are picking Shogun in this one.
And of course, i am picking Jones. If he wins i will be a happy camper. 

Tell you what: we will do the breakdown of the fight, when the fight is approaching, probably in the Official Jones vs Shogun Thread.
A serious debate, with arguments and common sense.

And after the fight, we will see who did a better job of predicting the fight.
If you do a better job than me, i will give you props! Don't worry. I am mature enough to admit when and if i'm wrong. Or if someome is more knowledgeable than me. 
Anyone, on this place who knows me better, can confirm it.

So...let the fight come, tension to built.
Keep in touch! 
We will have a good debate!


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

limba said:


> I can play this game also: aaaaaah, Shogun looked horrible against a 43 year old wrestler with shit striking and conditioning, named Mark Coleman.
> It took him 14 minutes to put him away!
> 
> And btw: Shogun was coming after a long lay off in that fight. What do you know?!....he will fight Jones after another long lay off.
> ...


Are we really bringing up the old, Shogun has poor conditioning rhetoric again? Guy had an unrehabbed knee injury. That's why he had poor conditioning. Look at Machida 1. That's 100% Shogun. Landing over and over on the fast LHW in the game. 

I never said he doesn't condition himself. I said there's no proof he has a deep gas tank besides what you are creating in your mind. There is only one shred of evidence with regard to his cardiovascular/muscular endurance, and that's Bonnar, a fight in which he gassed. 

GSP, Condit, and Guida has ALWAYS had a gas tank. Jackson's camp is not responsible for their cardio. 

I'll give you Stann, Sanchez, and Cerrone. However Evans has only looked good in regards to his gas tank with Rampage. Previously to that it was very suspect. 

Misinformation is not enough sir. Moar pleez!


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Are we really bringing up the old, Shogun has poor conditioning rhetoric again? Guy had an unrehabbed knee injury. That's why he had poor conditioning. Look at Machida 1. That's 100% Shogun. Landing over and over on the fast LHW in the game.
> 
> I never said he doesn't condition himself. I said there's no proof he has a deep gas tank besides what you are creating in your mind. There is only one shred of evidence with regard to his cardiovascular/muscular endurance, and that's Bonnar, a fight in which he gassed.
> 
> ...


Hey...you know me man! 

I like challenges! And by this time, you know some of my posts come with sarcasm as a "standard feature".

Jones showed some signs of slowing down against Bonnar in the 3rd. YES. 
But:
1. I am sure he wasn't getting the world class training he is getting now at Jackson Camp
2. he was still young and not that experienced. He went full throttle in the first 2 rounds, trying to cause as much damage as possible. That had an effect in the 3rd.
3. we can't really now, but there's a chance his corner told him to slow down in the 3rd and not take too many risks, seeing how he was 2 rounds up.
4. Bonnar is a "psycho" and he always goes all out in his fights. 
5. Last, but not least, I don't even think that Jones' performance in that 3rd round could be called as gassing.
More like slowing down.

_(Carwin rd 2 against Lesnar = gassing
Robbie Lawler rd 2 and 3 against Jacare = gassing)_

Another thing: bringing up the Coleman fight was just to make a comparison with the Jones - Bonnar fight.
I know Soogun has great conditioning. He proved it against Machida 1.

*But my main point* regarding the Coleman fight: he came after a surgery and a 15 months lay off and that had a big impact on his performance.
This time the situation is similar: surgery and 10 month lay off. But this time his opponent won't be a 43 year old retiring fighter, with no striking and shit conditioning.

That's what i was aiming for!

Another good talk with you man! :thumbsup:


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

limba said:


> Hey...you know me man!
> 
> I like challenges! And by this time, you know some of my posts come with sarcasm as a "standard feature".
> 
> ...


With Jones I agree there are a lot of variables. There are always a lot of variables. But I don't like making big assumptions like a fighter has a good gas tank, because its been a while since he went three rounds. 

I figured that was your point. And my counter-point. Was that Shogun didn't rehab his knee after the injury before Coleman. He just waited a while, then started training. However, this time he went through the actual rehabilitation process. Meaning his condition in these two situations is very difficult to compare with any solid foundation.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

> Jones played with Bader like a toy. A serious wreslter got handled like nothing. Shogun would be in for a world of trouble. This pic gives him a glimmer of hope, but nah, I can't believe anyone but Silva would cause Jones problems.


Err Shogun and Silva are stylistically very much the same.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

SM33 said:


> Err Shogun and Silva are stylistically very much the same.


Their backgrounds maybe but Shogun is a much more aggressive striker than Silva is.


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

HitOrGetHit said:


> Their backgrounds maybe but Shogun is a much more aggressive striker than Silva is.


Silva is a counter striker, Shogun is an in your face type of striker, both are Muay Thai experts but their style of engaging is very different.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

> Their backgrounds maybe but Shogun is a much more aggressive striker than Silva is.





> Silva is a counter striker, Shogun is an in your face type of striker, both are Muay Thai experts but their style of engaging is very different.


Silva can be an extremely aggressive striker. Shogun KOd Machida with a counter.

Either way, neither of them are wrestlers and both are rooted in Muay Thai and Jiu Jitsu to a high standard, it's silly to say that someone like Jones would give certain problems to one of them but not the other.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Re watched the Shogun/Overeem fights and just thought i'd throw this gif in here:










Shogun is the most aggressive, athletic and acrobatic fighter Jones has faced yet.

Still havnt decided a winner here, but i've made my mind up on who im rooting for, Shogun! I've always followed and supported Jones in his fights but I will be rooting for Shogun on this one. I dont feel he gets enough respect or gratitude for his accomplishments because of two lack luster performances in the octagon.

People seem to forget he has destroyed Rampage, Arona and Overeem twice amongst others. He was also the first man to figure out the enigma that is Machida. Remember? The karate master than no one could even touch?

Shogun is going to earn his respect back in this fight with Jones. C'mon Rua!


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

limba said:


> LOL
> Signature as in "words signature" or "graphic signature"?
> 
> I never did stuff like this. I don't like taking bets when one of my favorites athletes/team is involved. Wheater it's soccer, basketball, football. Maybe it sounds weird, but it's a thing of mine. A superstition.
> ...



Word. Shogun has simply faced too great of talents and has decimated them, and he has even faced a very similar body style in Overeem twice, and was not intimidated or affected by the physical disadvantages. 

Bones is still young but Shogun was the real young phenom. To me this fight is similar to Cote vs Silva. A young fighter on a good streak and a lot of potential biting off far, far more than he can chew.



edit: to your previous point, we were talking the _gameplan_ of Jackson fighters, not the conditioning. In those title fights and title contender fights, the fighters came in with the worst possible game plan and the worst possible corner man advice.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Word. Shogun has simply faced too great of talents and has decimated them, and he has even faced a very similar body style in Overeem twice, and was not intimidated or affected by the physical disadvantages.
> 
> Bones is still young but Shogun was the real young phenom. To me this fight is similar to Cote vs Silva. A young fighter on a good streak and a lot of potential biting off far, far more than he can chew.
> 
> ...


This fight is nothing, absolutely nothing like cote vs silva. What a horrible comparison.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Mckeever said:


> Re watched the Shogun/Overeem fights and just thought i'd throw this gif in here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think I'll be able to really make up my mind about who will win. I say Shogun but it's more just me wanting him to win, not believing he win 100%. I'll still probably be on the fence come fight time tbh.

My only hope is that it's a great fight, because if Jones destroys Shogun then everyone will say Shogun is done and if jones gets finished early people will say he's just like Brandon Vera(which I hope he is not).


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> This fight is nothing, absolutely nothing like cote vs silva. What a horrible comparison.




They threw Cote in there because there were no other contenders, just like now. Cote was riding a ton of hype because of early finishes, just like Jones. Hell, the age different betweem Shogun/Jones and Silva/Cote is even close.



Disclaimer though, I'm not comparing Cote *as a fighter* to Jones. That would be dumb.



Life B Ez, I know where you're coming from but there's no way people will discredit Jones if he convincingly beats Rua. I'm a certified Jones hater but Shogun is in his absolute prime, better than he was in Pride and he's still extremely young. 

If Shogun demolishes Jones we can only hope he takes it like GSP took the Serra loss, and not like how Vera took the Sylvia loss or Gonzaga took the Couture loss.


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## neoseeker (Jun 16, 2007)

BrianRClover said:


> I might be one of the only people that doesn't think Jones is overhyped. If anything I think he's being undersold, I really think he's that damn good.
> 
> Having said that, SO IS SHOGUN!
> 
> A lot of people are talkinga bout GSP/Silva, or even Shogun/Silva... I personally think we've got a super fight right here in front of us!


Couldn't agree more. This is a super fight.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Squirrelfighter said:


> With Jones I agree there are a lot of variables. There are always a lot of variables. But I don't like making big assumptions like a fighter has a good gas tank, because its been a while since he went three rounds.
> 
> *I figured that was your point. And my counter-point. Was that Shogun didn't rehab his knee after the injury before Coleman. He just waited a while, then started training. However, this time he went through the actual rehabilitation process. Meaning his condition in these two situations is very difficult to compare with any solid foundation.*


Fair enough!
But, with or without rehabilitation, it's still an assumption on how Shogun's conditioning will be.
On paper it should be much better than against Coleman.
We can only find out on fight night!
And i hope it will be.
I really hope both fighters to come in this fight 100% healthy and prepared!




Mckeever said:


> Re watched the Shogun/Overeem fights and just thought i'd throw this gif in here:


I'll call!
And raise you with this one 









Shogun is the most aggressive, athletic and acrobatic fighter Jones has faced yet.

Still havnt decided a winner here, but i've made my mind up on who im rooting for, Shogun! I've always followed and supported Jones in his fights but I will be rooting for Shogun on this one. I dont feel he gets enough respect or gratitude for his accomplishments because of two lack luster performances in the octagon.

People seem to forget he has destroyed Rampage, Arona and Overeem twice amongst others. He was also the first man to figure out the enigma that is Machida. Remember? The karate master than no one could even touch?

Shogun is going to earn his respect back in this fight with Jones. C'mon Rua![/QUOTE]

Believe it or not, Shogun is one of the fighters i admire the most.
I first watched his fights in Pride and was really impressed with him.
Like you've said: very talented, aggressive, athletic!

And i didn't change my opinion about him.
Even if he's fighting Jones.
I respect him for what he's done/doing/will do for MMA.
He's an ambasador for MMA and a really nice guy on top of this.

But, at the end of the day, he is fighting against the fighter i consider the future of this sport. A fighter that 4 years ago had no intention of becoming an MMA fighter. No training in MMA. Just a background in high school wrestling. He took this opportunity and believed he can become a great. 
And now he gets the chance to fight for the title.
That's why i respect Jones. He believes in himself and he's happy while doing his job and following his dream.

WAR Jones! :thumb02:



khoveraki said:


> Word. Shogun has simply faced too great of talents and has decimated them, and he has even faced a very similar body style in Overeem twice, and was not intimidated or affected by the physical disadvantages.
> 
> Bones is still young but Shogun was the real young phenom. To me this fight is similar to Cote vs Silva. A young fighter on a good streak and a lot of potential biting off far, far more than he can chew.


Overeem was a young guy also who was more of a HW who had some horrible cuts to make LHW and was getting his ass kicked by pretty much every top fighter at LHW.
But Shogun pretty much destroyed him and i can't argue with that. And Overeem was a very talented fighter also.

And another thing: Shogun vs Jones doesn't look one bit like Silva vs Cote!
Silva was a dominant champ, Shogun is yet to defend the belt once.
Jones is the best prospect and one of the most talented fighter in the world. Not only in his division, but in all divisions. Cote wasn not. He was just a guy with a granite chin and solid striking going in that fight. In terms of skill set and talent, he is nowhere near Jon Jones.



khoveraki said:


> edit: to your previous point, we were talking the _gameplan_ of Jackson fighters, not the conditioning. In those title fights and title contender fights, the fighters came in with the worst possible game plan and the worst possible corner man advice.


You can have the best game plans, the best strategies and the best corner men...but in the end...it's all up to the fighter.
He has to fight.
He has to get his act together, he has to go in there and do everything to win the fight.

And i believe Jones is a ver intelligent person/fighter and he knows how to put everything together, in order to succed.
Plus, his motivation, his confidence and his mental game are top notch.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Re watched the Shogun/Overeem fights and just thought i'd throw this gif in here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am with you here Mc :thumbsup:

I believe that the Shogun fight is still a little to early for Jones. Shogun is better everywhere except Jones incredible Greco-Roman Wrestling, wich is the only thing Jones has going for him.. but that at the same moment is a HUGE advanatge because Shogun is very vulnerable at this aspect of the game.
That's why I could see a TKO victory for JBJ as well.

We also don't know wich Shogun shows up. I mean he just had knee surgery right. 

If Shogun shows up, I think it's 75/25 in favour of Rua.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> My only hope is that it's a great fight, because if Jones destroys Shogun then everyone will say Shogun is done and if jones gets finished early people will say he's just like Brandon Vera(which I hope he is not).


I don't think it will the case. In either situation.
In fact, win or lose, i see both fighters dominating the LHW competition and eventually going at it again, by the end of next year.

Shogun will not be done with a loss here. 
And Jones will not become Vera. Because he is an intelligent person, who doesn't dream about flying to Jupiter, just like Vera did, with his cocky-over-confidence.
Anyone who says/thinks that should join the "Helpful Fardener Forum" and should stop watching MMA.




khoveraki said:


> They threw Cote in there because there were no other contenders, just like now.


I will somewhat disagree. 

Jones is a contender! Maybe not the Official no. 1 conender, but in terms of everything else - and with Evans hurt - he is the rightful contender.



khoveraki said:


> Cote was riding a ton of hype because of early finishes, just like Jones. Hell, the age different betweem Shogun/Jones and Silva/Cote is even close.


Cote was 13-4 when he fought Anderson.
But he was 4-4 in the UFC when he got the title shot. He started his career 0-4 in the UFC, with 2 submission losses. 
He then went on a 4 fight win streak. And out of his 4 wins in the UFC, he only won 2 by T/KO.
He was mostly KO'ing people in other organisations: KOTC, MFC or TKO.
He did well against Silva, but the gap in terms of talent, skill set and experience was huge.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

limba said:


> You can have the best game plans, the best strategies and the best corner men...but in the end...it's all up to the fighter.
> He has to fight.
> He has to get his act together, he has to go in there and do everything to win the fight.
> 
> ...




So wait... what would you say Jones' game plan is?


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> So wait... what would you say Jones' game plan is?


LOL
How should i know?!
I think not even Jones knows it yet!

But since you asked me what fo i think - i'll say. First of all avoid Shogun's strikes and try to time his leg kicks. 
With his strange movement in the cage, Jones could raise some serious issues for Shogun, as far as timing and finding the range are concerned. If he misses, Jones will take him down right away. Or, they would end up in a clinch, with Shogun trying some muay thai stuff and Jones trying some greco roman moves.
Even though Shogun is a BJJ black belt, i think he knows that his best chance of winning the fight is on the feet.
And he will definitely show respect for Jones' ground game.
Or at least he should.

So, in short, the game plan: take Shogun down, using superior wrestling and then try to control the fight: GnP or submissions, but keeping in mind, Shogun is a black belt, that can always pull some tricks.

But that's just me!
And a fight is a fight.
Jones/Jackson know better...MUCH MUCH better

_(last post of the night...it's 3 am here, i'm sleepy as hell)_


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> So wait... what would you say Jones' game plan is?


Rush him early, try to avoid any early strking feel out process ala Vitor/Silva. Don't get into any kind of a striking exchange, or at least keep the distance a mile away. 
Close the distance instantly and dump Shogun on his head, follow up with some vicious elbow blows and try to control him on the ground, make him feel your strenght and athletism.

Repeat this every chance you get, until you either TKO him or you take the decision :thumbsup:

Do not Strike with Shogun! One punch can end it and he can land that punch at you.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

BobbyCooper said:


> Rush him early, try to avoid any early strking feel out process ala Vitor/Silva. Don't get into any kind of a striking exchange, or at least keep the distance a mile away.
> Close the distance instantly and dump Shogun on his head, follow up with some vicious elbow blows and try to control him on the ground, make him feel your strenght and athletism.
> 
> Repeat this every chance you get, until you either TKO him or you take the decision :thumbsup:
> ...


You also need to watch your legs for kneebars/leglocks. 16 of 19 wins by (t)KO. If Jones hesitates, its over. But Bader was able to tag him a few times, Shogun is much faster and hits much harder. Jones needs to be concerned with striking defense.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Terror Kovenant said:


> You also need to watch your legs for kneebars/leglocks. 16 of 19 wins by (t)KO. If Jones hesitates, its over. But Bader was able to tag him a few times, Shogun is much faster and hits much harder. Jones needs to be concerned with striking defense.


Thats why I said, avoid striking with Shogun at any price or you will get tagged badly, wich can end the fight in a split second.

The kneebar thing is kinda fantasy. Shogun isn't that good of a submission guy like people make him out to be. He's good but not a Demian Maia or Aoki. If Jones is on top, there aren'T many submission Shogun has. I think he has none from this position.


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

LOVE the image and the article. I liked how respectful Shogun was in the octagon, he gave Jones his respect but you can tell he does not believe the hype. Can't wait for the fight!


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Thats why I said, avoid striking with Shogun at any price or you will get tagged badly, wich can end the fight in a split second.
> 
> The kneebar thing is kinda fantasy. Shogun isn't that good of a submission guy like people make him out to be. He's good but not a Demian Maia or Aoki. If Jones is on top, there aren'T many submission Shogun has. I think he has none from this position.



Again, Shogun has a 2nd degree black belt but he prefers to use it to get back to his feet, or a dominant position. He easily knee-barred a prime Randleman, he used the a great ankle lock to take Liddell's back, and he easily swept a serious blackbelt in Lyoto (requesting TraMai here for the name of the sweep and further analysis).


For Shogun's grappling credentials, see Lil Nog vs Shogun, Randleman vs Shogun, Arona vs Shogun, and Lyoto vs Shogun II.


Jones does have good ground and pound but he gets tied up from guard every time. I had an article after the Vera fight about how they planned that elbow knowing Vera would get wrist control and keep it, but I can't find it now.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Again, Shogun has a 2nd degree black belt but he prefers to use it to get back to his feet, or a dominant position. He easily knee-barred a prime Randleman, he used the a great ankle lock to take Liddell's back, and he easily swept a serious blackbelt in Lyoto (requesting TraMai here for the name of the sweep and further analysis).
> 
> 
> For Shogun's grappling credentials, see Lil Nog vs Shogun, Randleman vs Shogun, Arona vs Shogun, and Lyoto vs Shogun II.
> ...


I wasn't discrediting Shogun's ground game here! I was saying that Shogun is not a submission grappler ala Shinya Aoki..

Shogun like you mentioned use his BJJ too get back to his feet and to reverse position, but he is not a submission grappler.. not even close!

It's really hard to tell how good JBJ submission defense already is. He certainly shouldn't fear Shoguns ground game too much in this fight, especially because he spends the majority on top.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

A pissed off shogun is a scary thing. the guy is always blank never angry looking.

But i am still not sure if shogun will win as much as i HATE to say it.


Although i have complete faith in one man. 

too bad they won't meet for awhile


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

guy incognito said:


> A pissed off shogun is a scary thing. the guy is always blank never angry looking.


You must not have seen him after Ninja's decision loss to Rampage...

Fedor is blank. Shogun has feelings tho.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

I'm not sure who wins this to be honest with you.....I really know and appreciate who Shogun is as a fighter and what he has accomplished.....

That being said, JBJ has the tools to beat Shogun for sure, not saying he will, rather that he has all the potential to....people do not give enough credit to him because he is young, I think that could be a mistake for some. Shogun clearly has more experience in the cage, though I don't feel like JBJ isn't able to throw just as devastating leg kick and elbows, he seems pretty comfortable to me on the ground....
I think it's JBJ's fight to lose....


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## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

I'm just wondering which Shogun we're going to see. The animal LHW champ or the guy that struggled with Forrest and Coleman. If it's the Forrest/Coleman Shogun it's going to be a bad night for Shogun.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

What is this "struggling with Coleman" all about? Go watch that fight again, he completely tooled Coleman in that fight, even though he was not in top condition and gassed halfway through the fight. Since that point he ran on heart alone and he still managed to finish Coleman. I don't see how you can hold that fight against him except for the lack of cardio that he already proved doesn't exist anymore.


----------



## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

It tells me that he doesnt want to be in the ring and do that lame Promo shit that Dana forced him to do. 

Jones will win though,


----------



## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Just wanna ask real quick. Would Shogun struggle with Hamill, Bader, Vera, or Bonnar?
> 
> 
> At Jones' age Shogun had just beaten Rampage, Arona, Lil Nog, and Overeem to win the Pride Grand Prix.
> ...


Forget about the fact that your completely ignoring the Styles makes fights FACTOR, but NO i dont think Shogun would of made Bader look as bad as JJ did soo i dont even see your point, even though its not really good point to begin with :sarcastic12:


Jones will control Shogun on the ground and land enough strikes to set up a sub better then any that Forrest on his best day could set up.

Sorry mate that your going to lose so much money


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Again, Shogun has a 2nd degree black belt but he prefers to use it to get back to his feet, or a dominant position. He easily knee-barred a prime Randleman, he used the a great ankle lock to take Liddell's back, and he easily swept a serious blackbelt in Lyoto (requesting TraMai here for the name of the sweep and further analysis).
> 
> 
> For Shogun's grappling credentials, see Lil Nog vs Shogun, Randleman vs Shogun, Arona vs Shogun, and Lyoto vs Shogun II.
> ...


lol @ Prime Randleman. Kevin was 1-4 in his previous 5 fights when he he met Shogun. He was always an average LHW any ways, no point comparing him to a freak like Jon Jones.

Shogun isnt a submission grappler. Hes a very crafty and aggressive grappler. He attempts submissions to set up other things like sweeps and reversals, hes always thinking one or two steps ahead.


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## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> What is this "struggling with Coleman" all about? Go watch that fight again, he completely tooled Coleman in that fight, even though he was not in top condition and gassed halfway through the fight. Since that point he ran on heart alone and he still managed to finish Coleman. I don't see how you can hold that fight against him except for the lack of cardio that he already proved doesn't exist anymore.


My point was that Shogun had horrible cardio after an injury layoff, not unlike the one he just had after the Machida fight. And that we might not see Shogun at 100% for this fight, because of the injury.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

It's possible he won't be 100%, but I doubt it. He didn't have major surgery and he's been in training since December (afaik). I don't think Shogun would back out of a fight as long as he can still stand on his feet so for me as a Shogun fan the fear of him not being at his best is there. An 80% Shogun might not be enough against Jones. Still, Shogun's gonna knock Bones silly. :thumb02:


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

Mckeever said:


> lol @ Prime Randleman. Kevin was 1-4 in his previous 5 fights when he he met Shogun. He was always an average LHW any ways, no point comparing him to a freak like Jon Jones.
> 
> Shogun isnt a submission grappler. Hes a very crafty and aggressive grappler. He attempts submissions to set up other things like sweeps and reversals, hes always thinking one or two steps ahead.


While I agree with some of these points, Randleman is a much more accomplished wrestler with hugely explosive Greco Roman wrestling.... re-watch Fedor and Cro cop throws.

Anyways, he was 1-5 because he lost to these guys:

Fedor
Waterman
Cro Cop
Nakamura

Just pointing this out man :thumb02:

Anyways, Jones in for a world of hurt in this fight.


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## f4rtknock3r (Nov 22, 2010)

Machida Karate said:


> Forget about the fact that your completely ignoring the Styles makes fights FACTOR, but NO i dont think Shogun would of made Bader look as bad as JJ did soo i dont even see your point, even though its not really good point to begin with :sarcastic12:
> 
> 
> Jones will control Shogun on the ground and land enough strikes to set up a sub better then any that Forrest on his best day could set up.
> ...


Stop posting out of hate. Rampage and shogun could easily knock out Bader, just like shogun did to machida.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Big_Charm said:


> While I agree with some of these points, Randleman is a much more accomplished wrestler with hugely explosive Greco Roman wrestling.... re-watch Fedor and Cro cop throws.
> 
> Anyways, he was 1-5 because he lost to these guys:
> 
> ...


I know man, i never said he wansnt an outstanding wrestler. But he never had good submissions defense and he was never a good MMA fighter, he was average at best. I think comparing Randlemans MMA wrestling to Jones is a bit silly, thats all.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Hang on... Jones setting up submissions? Jones avoiding exchanges with Rua using unpredictable footwork and range? These two claims make me cringe, whoever said them.

Jones does not set up submissions, his submission over Bader was completely uninformed and he didn't really know what he was doing. A rough quote from post-fight interview 'yeah I haven't even learned that move, I saw GSP doing it in practise so many times and kind of remembered what he did and tried to do it like he did...' He won't be doing that against a second degree Black Belt!

As for the range and footwork thing... both are terrible. The only thing I will give him is he can get out of the way quite well. He's flat-footed, quite clumsy in the way he moves, has low hands and no guard, got tagged by Bader when he rushed in. Shogun will hit him however and whenever he wants.


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