# tapping out vs passing out



## Jord -Jitsu (Nov 3, 2008)

Bj Penns recent comments during UFC primetime about how hes going in there to fight to the death reminded of the book tao of jeet kun do by bruce lee.
Lee talks about how you should try and enter every fight as if its a fight to the death. I like this philosophy to an extent as it would stop you from holding anything back however if you were to get caught in an armbar/triangle/whatever its seems, to me ,pretty pointless to let yourself get injured if you know your caught. 

There alot of fighters who still think its macho or hard no to tap. After Paul Kellys fight against Marcus Davis he said "he should of passed out like a man" instead of tapping out but for me personally i just think its kinda dumb to risk serious career threatening injury.

On the other hand there are some cases where fighters have refused to tap, got injured and then went on to win the fight (Forrest Griffin for example).

What do you guys think about this? Would you tap if you got caught in a sub? Would you be able to fight through a broken arm and go on to win a fight?


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## ToeZup (Jan 7, 2008)

I look at it like this. If you have held on as long as you can trying to get out of whatever submission you are caught in, it would be best to tap right before you go out. I don't see how holding on an extra 2 seconds to pass out makes anyone harder or tougher than the next guy.

What i'm trying to say is not tapping doesn't help your situation, you still lost the fight.

Great topic Jord, you have been repped. Enjoy that green.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

I think if your caught and there is no escape you should tap, so you can get right back to the gym and train. Why let someone break your arm cause your tough. When I was practicing jujitsu and got caught i would HAVE to tap or i would be out of work and probably lose everything i own. I dont get that " I shouldnt of tapped like a little bitch" stuff,when your caught your caught. I think Penn was talking about tapping from strikes.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

If you're caught and you are going to go unconscious you may as well tap to avoid any potential injuries.


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## pauly_j (Nov 28, 2006)

Real men pass out.


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

If theres no chance of escaping the sub and you know your going to go unconscious or break a limb, then you should tap. 

But i think your a bit of a ***** if you tap from strikes, unless you broke your ribs or other bones from strikes.


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

The problem with not tapping to a choke is that sometimes you "poop yer drawers" :eek03:


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

DJ Syko said:


> If theres no chance of escaping the sub and you know your going to go unconscious or break a limb, then you should tap.
> 
> But i think your a bit of a ***** if you tap from strikes, unless you broke your ribs or other bones from strikes.


So it's cool to lose your brain cells?

I think the macho crap is pretty retarded IMO. If you are losing and you know your body is not going to recover, you might as well tap. Might as well live to fight another day.

I'm not saying you should give up the moment you get hurt but think what would happen if you had a incompetent ref and you don't tap because you have too much pride.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> The problem with not tapping to a choke is that sometimes you "poop yer drawers" :eek03:


Funny thing about this. I heard from a friend who had a friend that attended UFC 88..(all good stories come from 'a friend of a friend') that when Chuck was knocked out by Rashad that Chuck did indeed wreck his drawers... 

Like I said, 'friend of a friend' story so take it with a grain of salt.


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## Wise (Oct 8, 2006)

Tap always. If youre in a position where you think you can escape then do your best to hold on. Generally though if youve done BJJ for awhile then you know when youre done and you should always tap. 

At my gym you get bitched out pretty bad generally if you dont tap out when you should.


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## Jord -Jitsu (Nov 3, 2008)

Thanks ToeZup and yeah i totally agree with you. It just seems pointless to me. 
I mean i guess you COULD go on to win the fight but alot of the time the ref stops the fight anyway if you have a broken arm like when Arlovski fought Sylvia



LV 2 H8 U said:


> The problem with not tapping to a choke is that sometimes you "poop yer drawers" :eek03:


No way! is that true??

Also this whole "real men pass out" thing is b.s

Do you think you look like a real man limped out on the floor like a rag doll?? ...
Thought not.


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## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

Any joint locks: I tap out as soon as I feel pain, injury could easily happen otherwise. In an MMA match I'd stretch it but still: If i feel pain through the adrenaline, I'd probably tap out.

As for chokes: i tap out when I feel the strength in my arms diminishing. Before you pass out, you get weak in your arms and can't escape anyways. Sorta like Sokky, when he got arm triangled by Machida. BBut if the choke is heavy on the trachea, I tend to tap out much faster to save me a serious throatache.


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

Jord -Jitsu said:


> No way! is that true??
> 
> Also this whole "real men pass out" thing is b.s


Yeah, but most of the time fighters don't have a full gut going into the fight. At practice it's a different thing though.
The "real men pass out" thing is some kind of 5hit anyway.


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## Jord -Jitsu (Nov 3, 2008)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> Yeah, but most of the time fighters don't have a full gut going into the fight. At practice it's a different thing though.
> The "real men pass out" thing is some kind of 5hit anyway.


hahaha thats funny stuff dude. Old skool chute boxe training must have got messy then cause i heard they knocked each other out all the time.

I remember when i first started jits i used to go home with horrible headaches all the time from getting choked too much. Anyone else go through that?


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## Ashilles (Aug 19, 2008)

not the head aches bt the random soreness on the neck and jaw

has anyone got a link to someone pooping from a tap out, i have never seen it


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

Ashilles said:


> has anyone got a link to someone pooping from a tap out, i have never seen it


That's probably a good thing. Either way I would never tap. I also eat my steak live and use sandpaper to wipe my ass.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

I know that in real muaythai matches a good knee up the middle makes a man crap his shorts.


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## Jord -Jitsu (Nov 3, 2008)

haha its funny how this has gone from a thread about tapping out to a thread about crapping your pants


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## Tango87 (Oct 17, 2006)

Wise said:


> Tap always. If youre in a position where you think you can escape then do your best to hold on. Generally though if youve done BJJ for awhile then you know when youre done and you should always tap.
> 
> At my gym you get bitched out pretty bad generally if you dont tap out when you should.


Our coach is strict on us tapping even when we are relatively in a move. It's scary watching two guys that just learned an armbar go at it... Coach usually will stop them as soon as one is yanking the other's arm and the other guy is bracing with his arms closed. Coach is ok with us passing out. It's not like he encourages it but if it happens he's not too worried. He just tells us to pick the guy up by his feet and that it helps the blood get back to the brain. In the 8 months I've been training there I haven't seen anyone get passed out, only heard. I've almost passed out about 3 times on accident lol. Sometimes it just creeps up on you =)

And all this talk about shitting your pants, lol. To my understanding, I think that anytime you are knocked unconscious you run the risk of this. You lose complete control of your bodily functions because for a spit second your brain halts and so does everything it controls... i.e. your bowels lol.


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

Tango87 said:


> Our coach is strict on us tapping even when we are relatively in a move. It's scary watching two guys that just learned an armbar go at it... Coach usually will stop them as soon as one is yanking the other's arm and the other guy is bracing with his arms closed. Coach is ok with us passing out. It's not like he encourages it but if it happens he's not too worried. He just tells us to pick the guy up by his feet and that it helps the blood get back to the brain. In the 8 months I've been training there I haven't seen anyone get passed out, only heard. I've almost passed out about 3 times on accident lol. Sometimes it just creeps up on you =)
> 
> And all this talk about shitting your pants, lol. To my understanding, I think that anytime you are knocked unconscious you run the risk of this. You lose complete control of your bodily functions because for a spit second your brain halts and so does everything it controls... i.e. your bowels lol.


my coach does the same with us. newbies are dangerous, especially if they want to win the gold medal the first week they start to roll.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> my coach does the same with us. newbies are dangerous, especially if they want to win the gold medal the first week they start to roll.


Agreed newbies are dangerous especially when they come in jacked on roids and get tooled then after a period if they stay they might get an arm and get sooo excited they just yank it as hard as they can


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## XitUp (Jan 11, 2007)

being a ***** > having a broken arm


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## Zemelya (Sep 23, 2007)

IMO you more or less can take the choke, there is no real pain, and if executed properly it just takes seconds.
But how the hell can you not tap from an armbar? unless nervous system gets so overloaded that you just can't control the limbs anymore.

Here is an armbar question Silvia and that guy from recent UFN... both got broken wrists from armbars. Isn't armbar supposed to be putting the main pressure on the elbow joint? Why the hell did the wrists get involved? Not very proper execution or something else or am i missing something?
What do you guys think?

As for soiling when passed out - I've seen a guy pass out in front of bunch of people during gym class, didn't crap (thank god) but pissed himself.
As for fighter im sure they take special care to make sure it doesn't happen. Heard this thing about DeltaForce guys - they try pee/dump before doing any serious activity


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

I thought Silvias arm broke between the bicept and forearm where it is supposed to not at the wrist. Sakaraba tore Renzos shoulder with a kimura and he refused to tap those are the only ones ive seen


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

Zemelya said:


> IMO you more or less can take the choke, there is no real pain, and if executed properly it just takes seconds.
> But how the hell can you not tap from an armbar? unless nervous system gets so overloaded that you just can't control the limbs anymore.
> 
> Here is an armbar question Silvia and that guy from recent UFN... both got broken wrists from armbars. Isn't armbar supposed to be putting the main pressure on the elbow joint? Why the hell did the wrists get involved? Not very proper execution or something else or am i missing something?
> What do you guys think?


Typically if the arm breaks, the technique of an arm bar was passable. It is hard to argue with results. 

Honestly though, there are many variations to most locks and chokes.


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## spiderbloke (May 24, 2007)

Rated said:


> So it's cool to lose your brain cells?
> 
> I think the macho crap is pretty retarded IMO. If you are losing and you know your body is not going to recover, you might as well tap. Might as well live to fight another day.
> 
> I'm not saying you should give up the moment you get hurt but think what would happen if you had a incompetent ref and you don't tap because you have too much pride.


Bingo tapping out is the sensible thing to do especially in training, it's more manly to tap get up and start over than to pass out and be out for the rest of the session. Not saying you should tap straight away but use your common sense.

Also if you're a professional fighter you need to know when to accept a loss rather than risk your career for a single match up.

There a saying at my boxing gym: "A man who stands and fights gets knocked to the ground, a man who walks away lives to fight another day".

The idea behind it's the same.


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

Zemelya said:


> IMO you more or less can take the choke, there is no real pain, and if executed properly it just takes seconds.
> But how the hell can you not tap from an armbar? unless nervous system gets so overloaded that you just can't control the limbs anymore.
> 
> Here is an armbar question Silvia and that guy from recent UFN... both got broken wrists from armbars. Isn't armbar supposed to be putting the main pressure on the elbow joint? Why the hell did the wrists get involved? Not very proper execution or something else or am i missing something?


Chokes can be very uncomfortable and if they have a body lock also it feels like your head is getting ripped off (see Silva vs. Hendo)
An armbar in perfect form will put pressure on the elbow joint, however what happens is the arm gets turned to one side or the other instead of "thumb to ceiling" and the pressure gets translated to a different area.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

As soon as I get put in a rear naked choke or any other kind of choke, I poop immediately just so I wont have to be embarrassed if it happens later when I'm out. Now that would be embarrassing!


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## Zafersan (Nov 18, 2008)

For me depends on the sub. If im caught in a sub that can break a limb then ill tap. But if its a triangle or choke...I rather go to sleep.


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## evilappendix (Jan 4, 2007)

You know, I never even thought about the dropping of deuces when passing out. That's funny. Imagine RNCing some guy and having him leave a steamer on you...

I think with any joint lock you should tap when you start to feel any pain. It's just not worth the injury. A choke on the other hand, seems like you could let it go a little longer in certain situations(i.e. the rounds almost over, the choke isn't fully sunk in).


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## recon6991 (Nov 21, 2007)

Yea im with most, joint locks tap. I've only done a few official BJJ classes but at wrestling we always do that before and after, and as soon as I can feel the pressure on the joint I tap. But chokes and stuff seem easier to get out of (especially when neither of us know whats going on) so I would try and fight those more.


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

Any joint locks you'd have to be an idiot to hold onto (Razzak Al-Hassan). Chokes i could see fighting them, i know when im screwing around with friends, chokes dont really get to me till im really about to pass out, and i usually just fight harder then.... not saying its the best or safest thing to do but hey.



as for pooping, i was watching MMA Weekly a while back, and they were interviewing a Promoter of one of the smaller shows, as he had been doing it for several years, and was asked whats the craziest thing you'd seen in a fight? "There was one show where a guy took a hard solid shot right in the gut, and he pooped himself and it fell out his shorts and onto the mat! I exclaimed OH MY GOD THIS GUY GOT THE SHIT BEAT OUT OF HIM!!"

good story.... Haha!


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

JuggNuttz said:


> Any joint locks you'd have to be an idiot to hold onto (Razzak Al-Hassan). Chokes i could see fighting them, i know when im screwing around with friends, chokes dont really get to me till im really about to pass out, and i usually just fight harder then.... not saying its the best or safest thing to do but hey.
> 
> Thats how it should be, with friend its all good on the matt


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## HeavyRob (Nov 3, 2008)

I was grappling with this kid a few years back (he joined the Special Forces a few months after). I could never beat him when we grappled, but this time I was doing particularly well cuz I was trying new stuff out. I finally got out of his guard and put him in an armbar. I used my other arm, formed a triangle and really pressed down. Then, he starts coughing/choking and throws up Exorcist style all over us. 

I instantly let go--mostly cuz I was grossed out and secondly because I thought he was done--but he wiped his mouth and was like, "I didn't tap, I didn't tap." So we continued on. His breath was rank and he got me in a weak choke, but I was getting sick smelling his breath so I just tapped and ended it.

Glad he didn't take a dump on me, though. Didn't think that was an option.


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## Jord -Jitsu (Nov 3, 2008)

Heavy rob that is a hilarious story kidda:thumb02:


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