# "Andy Hug" crescent kick/dropkick/axe kick



## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

Underused in MMA? Andy Hug landed quite a few of them in K1 (watch ANY Andy Hug hl on youtube)and since it should be harder to land them with the opponent wearing thick K1 gloves than MMA gloves I've come to think of this:

Wouldn't it be KICKASS if someone started KOing ppl with those kicks in mma? It would be possible. Maybe Chung lee will do it...


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

They are underrated, considered fancy. All you need to do is set them up properly.

I think I saw cung le try and lead with one of them in his last fight.


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## Foon (Jan 6, 2007)

Hug didn't really finish with that kick, I think it'll just lead to an easy takedown.


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## sirdilznik (Nov 21, 2006)

Axe kicks are some of my favorite moves to watch but you won't see them often in matches, especially MMA matches. Axe kicks are very low percentage blows, even when well set up. Even Andy Hug barely ever landed them clean. However when you do land one clean, the opponent is going to be carried out on a stretcher. In MMA this move is even more of a risk to use since a well trained opponent can just step in while the leg is on the way up an you will be completely helpless to prevent the takedown. It's a great looking move in movies, highlight reels ,and video games, but in MMA matches it's generally too big a risk to take to try to pull off one of those.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

a ko with a crescent or axe kick would be pretty cool, but with all the guys in mma who started as grapplers, I wouldn't hold my breath.

i've always liked the crescent/roundhouse combination (ie left inside/outside crescent, right round). b/c ideally it distracts yr opponent just a little and if yr fast enoughyou can smack em extremely hard with the roundhouse.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

sirdilznik said:


> Axe kicks are some of my favorite moves to watch but you won't see them often in matches, especially MMA matches. Axe kicks are very low percentage blows, even when well set up. Even Andy Hug barely ever landed them clean. However when you do land one clean, the opponent is going to be carried out on a stretcher. In MMA this move is even more of a risk to use since a well trained opponent can just step in while the leg is on the way up an you will be completely helpless to prevent the takedown. It's a great looking move in movies, highlight reels ,and video games, but in MMA matches it's generally too big a risk to take to try to pull off one of those.


Hence it needing to be set upwith punches, they shouldn't be thrown unless your opponent is covering up.
I landed one in a real fight before. Guess two years of TKD teach you something


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

i have no grappling or wrestling experience, only 2 yrs of tkd. unless you count self defense renduri. but there are many many kicks in tkd which, if used properly and with enough speed, are potential ko's

tkd is constantly getting run down on this forum as being a wussy art. i disagree altho i am biased


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

I think those kicks could be very effective. The problem those kicks are really hard to do and nobody is going waste time to train to use them insted the are just going to use that time for other training. Sher Andy could do it (because he has trained all his life) but I don't think anyone else will.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

swpthleg said:


> i have no grappling or wrestling experience, only 2 yrs of tkd. unless you count self defense renduri. but there are many many kicks in tkd which, if used properly and with enough speed, are potential ko's
> 
> tkd is constantly getting run down on this forum as being a wussy art. i disagree altho i am biased


yha I have had two years wrestling and bjj and 6months kick boxing and I am starting tkd this year to improve my kicks. They are devastating when you land them


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

i am considering competing in sparring down the road, maybe after i get green belt. discussions like this are very useful to me. especially since based on what i've seen at competitions so far, i would be sparring extremely aggressive she-males


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

I used to be heavy in to TKD, and actually competed in the National Olympics years back. I've got to say, axe kicks look fancy, but they're not all that effective. First of all, it's easy to see coming to a trained fighter. Second of all, while your leg is strong, at that extension it's not powerful enough to really overcome a guy raising both his arms in a cross guard. Finally, if you're in an MMA match and not a sparring competition, you're going to get speared, plain and simple. Check Cung Le's recent fight versus Frykelund (Sp?). He tries an axe kick and gets thrown off balance. Luckily his opponent sucked, or at least wasn't on that night, but a good fighter would have made him pay for that.

Crescent kicks are a bit different, but in the a similar boat. They're more effective than axe kicks simply because they're not as easy to see coming, and a practiced fighter can whip 'em around really quickly. The problem is you can lose sight of your opponent for a minute, you risk missing and being in a completely awkward stance for a moment, and they're not terribly hard to block. Now, I will say this: For all my time in TKD, I use to spar my master, and members of the Hodori team from Korea (Korea's TKD "dream team,"), and occasionally they would splat me with one of these. I've never been even remotely threatened by an axe kick (And in a real fight, I'm going to juke in and stomp kick your knee out. You'll never walk right again), but I've actually be KO'ed in practice by a crescent kick. It's rare, and I've had it used against me a zillion times in competitions to no avail, but occasionally when an opponent gets tired and sloppy, or if you're extremely good, you can whip one of these around and really hurt somebody. 

Now, this is just MY experience. You may experience something entirely different, but I'm not theorizing this stuff - I have actually experienced years of this kind of training. To me, the best kicks are the meat and potatoes kicks. Roundhouse, sidekicks, backside kicks, front kicks -All quick, powerful, and don't put you in poor position. Axe kicks do not get my seal of approval, and for the majority of martial artists, neither to crescent kicks (Though there are a few martial artists who can really pull these off).


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## Uchaaa (Apr 22, 2007)

YOu need to be flexible to do a good axe kick, especially against higher opponents. Maybe this is a reason.


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

Cro Cop landed a couple solid axe kicks in Pride, but in general, the risk/reward ratio is off in MMA, unless your opponent happens to be off-balance/off-guard/worst striker ever.

It's definitely a nasty and effective kick, though. Heavy stretching, deadlifts (Romanian and standard), and oblique ab work will land you a strong axe kick.


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## sirdilznik (Nov 21, 2006)

jasvll said:


> Cro Cop landed a couple solid axe kicks in Pride, but in general, the risk/reward ratio is off in MMA, unless your opponent happens to be off-balance/off-guard/worst striker ever.
> 
> It's definitely a nasty and effective kick, though. Heavy stretching, deadlifts, and oblique ab work will land you a strong axe kick.


Right on the money. It's a situational strike. In most situations the risk is not worth the reward. Once in a while if your opponent is stunned or missed a shot or for whatever reason winds up kind of hunched over and unaware, a good axe kick would obliterate them.


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

sirdilznik said:


> Right on the money. It's a situational strike. In most situations the risk is not worth the reward. Once in a while if your opponent is stunned or missed a shot or for whatever reason winds up kind of hunched over and unaware, a good axe kick would obliterate them.


If your opponent is leaned over, you're going to hit him in the back of the head with your heel and most likely kill him. In addition, you're going to be DQ'ed, rofl.

It's just a weird kick, and there are more effective kicks (In my opinion of course) for any situation.


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## sirdilznik (Nov 21, 2006)

Calibretto9 said:


> If your opponent is leaned over, you're going to hit him in the back of the head with your heel and most likely kill him. In addition, you're going to be DQ'ed, rofl.
> 
> It's just a weird kick, and there are more effective kicks (In my opinion of course) for any situation.


I meant slightly leaned forward. You're right though, if they're leaned over 90 degrees or so it's going to do major damage or kill them ans should be DQ'd


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## jasvll (Mar 28, 2007)

Assuming the back of the head is in the way, you could always target the collar-bone. It would make you a jerk, but it would definitely end the fight.


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## -Lukas- (Feb 21, 2007)

Whoa, did you guys know Andy Hug beat Cro Cop back in K-1? Thats pretty sweet, I feel like such a noob for not knowing that though  

I think an axe kick landed would be absolutely devastating, but it makes you REALLY unbalanced, even Andy falls down in one of his fights when he does it. Crescent kicks are better, but they have their place. I'd use one though if I saw a good opening. If people in MMA started KOing with those, that would be pretty kickass :thumb02:


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## scepticILL (Mar 29, 2007)

CC hit Hunt with one... Wasn't with the heel though, it was with the tip of his toes, so it didn't dod much damage.


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## scepticILL (Mar 29, 2007)

And also CC hit Andy with one during their fight...


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

I wanna see some bituro kicks in MMA...now that would be a unique KO :thumb02:


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## Foon (Jan 6, 2007)

scepticILL said:


> And also CC hit Andy with one during their fight...


Haha, yeah that was a nice touch. I loved how they smiled and touched gloves after it.


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## B-Real (Oct 1, 2006)

Foon introduced me to Hug. He is a god. Is there anybody good enough to connect with it?? Like, if somebody tried it, I think they would just be taken down.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

And wang could do it.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

what's a bituro kick


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

swpthleg said:


> what's a bituro kick


You haven't learned those yet?

It's basically a kick used for kicking people standing right next to you. You like throw the kick to the outside of your body and hit your target with the ball of your foot. It's like a front kick that turns to the outside of your body and....I dunno it's really hard to explain over the internet. You have to be pretty flexible to do it properly. I don't think I spelled the name of it right cuz I can't find anything about it online. I remember it from TKD class though.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

it sounds like a raised check kick or something.on mondays it's all conditioning and we tend to do a lot of legs as is typical of tkd. For all I know it's been taught to me as something else and I've forgotten it b/c we've devoted so much time to self-defense lately. don't know why, everyone's sick of it.

I have pushed people away from me point sparring with an improperly executed front kick where I hit with the ball of my foot rather than the heel.

I started running again. I am back up to 3 miles but not at my usual speed of 9 1/2 - 10 min mile. this is crucial b/c i lost preparation time for green belt test while i was unable to run, and my cardio endurance is somewhat compromised. I seem to be getting it back quickly though and i'm encouraged by that.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

swpthleg said:


> it sounds like a raised check kick or something.on mondays it's all conditioning and we tend to do a lot of legs as is typical of tkd. For all I know it's been taught to me as something else and I've forgotten it b/c we've devoted so much time to self-defense lately. don't know why, everyone's sick of it.
> 
> I have pushed people away from me point sparring with an improperly executed front kick where I hit with the ball of my foot rather than the heel.
> 
> I started running again. I am back up to 3 miles but not at my usual speed of 9 1/2 - 10 min mile. this is crucial b/c i lost preparation time for green belt test while i was unable to run, and my cardio endurance is somewhat compromised. I seem to be getting it back quickly though and i'm encouraged by that.


Glad to hear that, hope you get back full force and blow through that green belt test. What form do you need to do isn't in Yul-Guk or something? 

You guys might not learn that bituro kick, it's pretty useless.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

I have to know sam jang (tae guek) and hwa-rang (pal gwe). I know sam jang but hwa-rang is f***ing hard, even with the diagram i got off the internet. i also have to polish my one-steps, learn all of earth (a stance exercise sequence), and probably do absurd amounts of sparring, which is why i'm so uptight about getting my cardio back to where it was before, which was 6 9-10 min miles and lifting on top of sparring, then fun stuff like throwing,rolling and falling if i had time.

I told my teacher's gf (she's in my class) that he didn't want me to spar yet and she made him let me spar lol. i sparred with a red belt who had enough control where i couldn't get hurt. this is good cuz i'm not up to sparring with the other orange belts, green and purple belts who are still developing their gross motor (they're 16-17) and don't mean to punch me super hard in the mouth, but do anyway.

i'm straying from the topic, one of the orange belts is a little over 6' and the other guys aren't far behind him. so whenever they spar me the FIRST thing they do is attempt the axe or crescent kick. (I'm 5'5 1/2") one of the drills i practice at home is rising block L, jab R simultaneously then some random kick as fast as I can. I haven't gotten to apply this in the dojang yet. one of the things i look for in these threads are killer judo or jujitsu combinations that would surprise the hell out of those guys.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

swpthleg said:


> I have to know sam jang (tae guek) and hwa-rang (pal gwe). I know sam jang but hwa-rang is f***ing hard, even with the diagram i got off the internet. i also have to polish my one-steps, learn all of earth (a stance exercise sequence), and probably do absurd amounts of sparring, which is why i'm so uptight about getting my cardio back to where it was before, which was 6 9-10 min miles and lifting on top of sparring, then fun stuff like throwing,rolling and falling if i had time.
> 
> I told my teacher's gf (she's in my class) that he didn't want me to spar yet and she made him let me spar lol. i sparred with a red belt who had enough control where i couldn't get hurt. this is good cuz i'm not up to sparring with the other orange belts, green and purple belts who are still developing their gross motor (they're 16-17) and don't mean to punch me super hard in the mouth, but do anyway.
> 
> i'm straying from the topic, one of the orange belts is a little over 6' and the other guys aren't far behind him. so whenever they spar me the FIRST thing they do is attempt the axe or crescent kick. (I'm 5'5 1/2") one of the drills i practice at home is rising block L, jab R simultaneously then some random kick as fast as I can. I haven't gotten to apply this in the dojang yet. one of the things i look for in these threads are killer judo or jujitsu combinations that would surprise the hell out of those guys.


It sounds to me like you are taking a slightly different class than I took. My teacher was really unorthodox in his teachings though, as I've said before, it was like a mix between TKD, Akido, judo, and weapons defense. I have never heard of Sam Jang or Tae Guek, but I remember Hwa-Rang. Also, I don't know what you mean by having to "learn earth stances" or one-steps...and we didn't have an orange belt. :confused02:


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

well when you were taking tkd it probably still went straight from yellow belt to green belt. orange belt was added not too long ago between yellow and green belt. still varies with the school, i'm sure. earth is a drill meant to strengthen various stances (front, chinese front, dragon, cat, crane etc) and for black belt you have to schedule the test for that separately b/c you have to hold each stance for a minute. sam jang is just one of the tae guek forms, a traditional group of forms, like hwa-rang is part of the palgwe forms.

one-steps are a big pain in the ass b/c many of them are so similar. there are self-defense one-steps (i.e. knife hand block, 2 shu to on the opponent's throat) and sparring one-steps. i have to know 15 or so. the 6-month cycle test is nov. 3 and i hate testing in the cycle, so i want to be ready by october. probably i will end up having to schedule private lessons here and there to work on stuff like my left roundhouse and side kick don't have their usual power yet (that's the side I hurt) that's one reason i love axe and crescent kick right now, on the rare occasions I get let into the ring.

I don't know how traditional my school is but it is unique in my town, anyway, that we learn boxing (western & thai) along with tkd. we don't train in this nearly as much as I'd like though. we do train in weapons (modern arnis & bo) but i would loooove to learn broadsword someday.


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

It's good that they teach some Western boxing in your class. That is actually the reason I left my Taekwondo school. I was learning so all TKD vs TKD techniques for big competitions. Well, I went to a small local tournament after state but before national's to keep sharp. I fought a few guys, won 'em all, then fought this Asian dude that was about my same size. I assumed he would be pretty hot stuff as many of the Koreans there have been doing TKD for a long time, but no no no. This dude got straight up in my grill and boxed with me. He threw little to no kicks, got straight up to me (Making kicking kinda hard) and busted me up with his hands. So, I lose the first round trying to use TKD techniques. I come in half way through the second round, and the same thing happens. Eventually through the second round I sweep the guy out of frustration and lose a point.

Finally, third round comes around and I throw TKD out the window and just brawl with the guy. I didn't throw any jabs to his face (illegal), but outside of that, I beat the hell out of the dude. After that day, I was kind of disillusioned to the whole thing. Got into a few street fights over the next few years and yeah, a few of the kicks were nice, but I've since come to love using my hands.

I think that's the worse thing a teacher can do for his student: Limit him so much that he'll get to a point where, met with a different style, he has absolutely no answer in his arsenal. Teachers need to develop their students all around so there are multiple techinques to draw from. It's a huge reason why I love MMA - You see what works, what doesn't, in a massive melting pot of martial arts. =P


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

close range fighting is where boxing techniques like jamming someone come in handy. you learn to cut the ring in martial arts sparring of course, but boxing training refines it. 

i have also vastly enjoyed working the slip and bob and weave b/c as i've already stated, everyone I fight is taller than me, except another girl who is an advanced green belt.


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