# ***Official James Toney Thread***



## H-Deep

*Boxer Toney crashes UFC postfight asking to fight MMA*






lol, he must think hes someone else


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## Dan0

Huh, so this is for real? :confused05:
Any solid grappler will shut Toneys fat mouth.

How bout Roy Nelson? :confused02:


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## hellholming

Roy is too slow, he'd get knocked out.


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## jcal

Thats funny- Toney following Dana around but still a good way to get a job. Toney probably watches mma bouts and sees all kinds of holes in peoples standup and thinks it would be easy to capitalize on it. He just doesnt get it, there so much more to it than that. Plus he sounds a little punchy to me.


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## BWoods

Gotta respect him for wanting to step up and fight instead of running his mouth, though the stalking Dana thing is a bit creepy.

I'd like to see him test the waters in the Heavyweight or Light Heavyweight divisions. If he can get in shape and at least try to learn the ground he may be interesting to watch fight. At heavyweight match him up with someone like Al-Turk or Eddie Sanchez. At LHW maybe see if Kimbo wants that fight, see if they can get as much money out of it as they can. 

I would hate to see Roy Nelson crucifix him for 3 rounds, we'd never hear the end of it from Tony. Just give him someone that will stand with him.


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## neoseeker

Yes, Roy Nelson sounds like the perfect match for him. Hopefully he will take him to the ground and that's going to be it for Toney.


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## donE85hot

*If dana lets James Toney in the UFC who should he fight?*

Dana is kind of backed into a corner. he is also looks like he very interested in possible letting Toney in the UFC.

so who should he fight?
the clear opponent is Kimbo Slice because it will sell. and the Kimbo's lack of skill will make it a more competitive fight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCXkC1L_Yyk

http://video.aol.com/aolvideo/null/ufc-108-post-fight-interview-dana-white/60076679001


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## Syko

Big Country


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## BrianRClover

BWoods said:


> I would hate to see Roy Nelson crucifix him for 3 rounds, we'd never hear the end of it from Tony. Just give him someone that will stand with him.


You wouldn't, you would see a first round submission, assuming you did see a first round KO from the other side.


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## Binkie65

Syko said:


> Big Country


Roy Nelson is the last person he should fight.. People want to see some action.. Roy Nelson is the farthest thing from action since Tim Sylvia!

Put him in with someone like Forest and see what happens. Giffen seems to always fight the other guys fight so it would be perfect!


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## G_Land

Give him to Kimbo HAHA


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## TERMINATOR

given him someone who will beat the crapola out of him so we dont have to listen to him anymore.


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## unclehulka13

Dude is gonna be 42 this year. I hope he doesn't think he has a chance in the world against any mid level heavyweight.


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## MedicWanteD

WOW! i'm tired of this guy already. He's like Dana's shadow now.


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## MedicWanteD

I was never much of a boxing fan and honestly I have no idea who he is. I'm sure as heck not gonna pay to watch him fight.


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## locnott

I think 1 or 2 cans and them Kimbo, freak show but casual fans would blow up the ppv #'s and lots of boxing fans may tune in.
If the UFC could find a way to do it in japan it would probably set a few records on ppv and gate. imo


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## donE85hot

MedicWanteD said:


> I was never much of a boxing fan and honestly I have no idea who he is. I'm sure as heck not gonna pay to watch him fight.


here is boxing record and HL from his last fight

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=1437&cat=boxer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdG8SZ79gCw


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## machidaisgod

locnott said:


> I think 1 or 2 cans and them Kimbo, freak show but casual fans would blow up the ppv #'s and lots of boxing fans may tune in.
> If the UFC could find a way to do it in japan it would probably set a few records on ppv and gate. imo


Just let him boot Kimbo to the curb in his first fight, then we can find someone to kick him and everything will be ok.


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## Gudster

Looks like the guy needs a paycheck.


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## Mr. Sparkle

Roy Jones Junior


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## Toxic

Cro Cop, I remember a boxing champ trying to compete in K-1 a few years ago and it quickly became apparent that boxers don't like to be kicked, Mirko needs one final big name highlight real LHK.


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## Canadian Psycho

Kimbo and Buentello are the first two fighters who come to mind. Mitrione... there are actually a few HWs who like to stand and bang, and that would be the key. JT is never going to challenge for the HW title, but like Kimbo, Dana can certainly milk him for a few fights, and probably make some fairly good money doing so. I don't think it makes him a hypocrite... he's been telling boxers who run their mouths to step on up for years now, and one finally seems willing to do so. Why not bring him in, set up a few potential stand-up wars, and bring in some new fans in the process? Seems like a pretty smart move in my eyes, especially when the HW division could use the exposure.


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## js1316

Toney vs. Kimbo anyone? I wouldn't mind seeing that fight.


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## daveh98

I don't see this as a good idea and I am a Toney fan. This is just more bastardization of the sport of MMA and cashing in on hype, marketing and consumerism. James Toney is past his prime (much less so then say mercer) and the fight people are talking about is against Kimbo? Kimbo, while showing dedication and heart, is pure marketing and sensationalism. Just because Kimbo has heart and is slowly improving doesn't mean that he deserves the spotlight or even to be on the stage of the UFC. For every time Kimbo fights, he takes away from a guy that is probably much more skilled and deserving to be on TV. James Toney is again continuing this trend by ignoring the thousands of actual MMA fighters that could be ready for a legit "shot." 

Regarding a Toney Vs Kimbo fight, Toney would probably knock kimbo out within one minute. No joke.


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## Toxic

Why would they give Toney a fight that is a gimmie in somebody that is gonna try and brawl with him, that is what everyone seems to be suggesting and the logic is hurting my head. If he comes in and wins a couple fights the boxing crowd is gonna have a hay day, Dana needs somebody who will beat him but IMO if he gives him somebody who can beat him standing its even better.


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## Canadian Psycho

Toxic said:


> Why would they give Toney a fight that is a gimmie in somebody that is gonna try and brawl with him, that is what everyone seems to be suggesting and the logic is hurting my head. If he comes in and wins a couple fights the boxing crowd is gonna have a hay day, Dana needs somebody who will beat him but IMO if he gives him somebody who can beat him standing its even better.


Money. Sad, but true. And we can knock Dana and the UFC for it, but hey... SF would do the exact same thing, as would any organization in Japan. We see plenty of legitimate fights each and every PPV. Would a 'gimmick' match here and there really be so damaging? We need appreciate that the bulk of the market is made up of your casual fan, who I think would more than salivate at the idea of Slice vs. JT. But again, does this really damage the sport when we quite obviously have an overwhelming talented fighter to hack fighter ratio? Seems like some are over-reacting to me.


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## Danm2501

Giving Toney a fight with Kimbo is exactly what he wants, a guy with very average stand-up skills that's just going to stand in front of him and get knocked out. I'd love to see the UFC give him someone like Jon Jones, a guy that's on the rise and is looking for a big name win to propel him to the big stage. I'd love to see Toney getting slammed and KTFO by Jones. Would be so much more entertaining than seeing him knock out Kimbo in round 1. I don't see how that helps the UFC, I'd bet that Kimbo's more of a cash cow than Toney will ever be, having him get knocked out by Toney would arguably hurt the UFC more than it'd help them.


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## Soakked

Canadian Psycho said:


> Kimbo and Buentello are the first two fighters who come to mind. Mitrione... there are actually a few HWs who like to stand and bang, and that would be the key. JT is never going to challenge for the HW title, but like Kimbo, Dana can certainly milk him for a few fights, and probably make some fairly good money doing so. I don't think it makes him a hypocrite... he's been telling boxers who run their mouths to step on up for years now, and one finally seems willing to do so. Why not bring him in, set up a few potential stand-up wars, and bring in some new fans in the process? Seems like a pretty smart move in my eyes, especially when the HW division could use the exposure.


I agree 100%. I think that would be a smart move on Dana White's part.



> Giving Toney a fight with Kimbo is exactly what he wants, a guy with very average stand-up skills that's just going to stand in front of him and get knocked out.


You gotta give Kimbo more credit than that, I mean he didn't just stand and bang with Mercer, I doubt he'll do that with Toney.


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## Toxic

Canadian Psycho said:


> Money. Sad, but true. And we can knock Dana and the UFC for it, but hey... SF would do the exact same thing, as would any organization in Japan. We see plenty of legitimate fights each and every PPV. Would a 'gimmick' match here and there really be so damaging? We need appreciate that the bulk of the market is made up of your casual fan, who I think would more than salivate at the idea of Slice vs. JT. But again, does this really damage the sport when we quite obviously have an overwhelming talented fighter to hack fighter ratio? Seems like some are over-reacting to me.


Im not complaining Dana is bringing him in but I don't see how giving him a series of gimmie fights is not detrimental to the UFC, it makes MMA look inferior to boxing if he just walks in and starts picking up wins. Its two fold fist off you need to prove that MMA fighters are skilled athletes and boxing and MMA are two different sports, secondly with all the money Toney would probably ask for they need to make sure he is giving somebody a rub (in pro wrestling terms).


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## BobbyD

Heath Herring hasn't fought in awhile. I think that would be a good matchup.


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## Danm2501

Is James Toney even going to make the UFC that much money? How big of a star is he? I'm not a big boxing fan, but I do enjoy watching it and I can't say I've ever heard of the guy. If it was Roy Jones I could understand them bringing him in, as even though he's over the hill, he sells ppv's; is Toney really that big of a star that it's worth it for the UFC to have him come in and beat one of their big cash cows, Kimbo Slice?


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## 6toes

BobbyD said:


> Heath Herring hasn't fought in awhile. I think that would be a good matchup.


I like the sound of this actually. Seems like it could work out pretty well.


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## daveh98

Danm2501 said:


> Is James Toney even going to make the UFC that much money? How big of a star is he? I'm not a big boxing fan, but I do enjoy watching it and I can't say I've ever heard of the guy. If it was Roy Jones I could understand them bringing him in, as even though he's over the hill, he sells ppv's; is Toney really that big of a star that it's worth it for the UFC to have him come in and beat one of their big cash cows, Kimbo Slice?


It would bring in boxing fans and fans on site's like these that just seem to love the "boxing vs mma" style BS. As for who Toney is, Freddy Roach said that he was the naturally most talented fighter that he has ever trained whose only downfall was lack of discipline. He is rarely hurt in fights, has fought from middle or suppermiddle to heavyweight and has fought anyone that has been offered to him. The only fight he admits to ever losing fairly to is Roy Jones Jr when they clashed back in the 90's. The dude is past his prime but he is very slick (floyd mayweather style of using the shoulder roll) and hasn't taken a lot of punishment. 

Personally, he is the type of boxer that is least likely to be successful in MMA (not because only his age) due to his shoulder roll style fight. That is made for boxing and is very high level but exposes you big time. HOwever, he has by MMA standards extreme 1 punch KO power and he is extremely tough. He is one tough dude for sure. Kimbo would get "sliced" by him. Put him in against a guy with decent all around and you have an intriquing matchup. But again, I abide by the notion that these kind of "EliteXCough" fights are not good for the sport and are taking the spotlight away from young guys that have had their sites set on UFC for years and have trained specifically for the moment. 

The way the UFC monopolizes almost every facet of each fighter and the amount of PPV buys and support they have with how little they pay their fighters, does not mean they are hurting for money. THey are beginning to represent what they disliked about other combat sports and it is really becoming more apparent. The matchups shouldn't be just about "action" as evident by increased fan booing at every lull in action or the horrible crowd reaction when Rashad escaped last night to clinch a well fought victory and the fight fans were disappointed there wasn't another "KAYO." Some MMA fans like watching two technical guys roll around on the matt for 30 minutes while noticing subtle transitions and scoff at the "backyard brawler" Vs aging Boxer. Wow..that turned into a rant but I just wish these sorts of things were not beginning to dominate discussions around the world and message boards.


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## Canadian Psycho

daveh98 said:


> It would bring in boxing fans and fans on site's like these that just seem to love the "boxing vs mma" style BS. As for who Toney is, Freddy Roach said that he was the naturally most talented fighter that he has ever trained whose only downfall was lack of discipline. He is rarely hurt in fights, has fought from middle or suppermiddle to heavyweight and has fought anyone that has been offered to him. The only fight he admits to ever losing fairly to is Roy Jones Jr when they clashed back in the 90's. The dude is past his prime but he is very slick (floyd mayweather style of using the shoulder roll) and hasn't taken a lot of punishment.
> 
> Personally, he is the type of boxer that is least likely to be successful in MMA (not because only his age) due to his shoulder roll style fight. That is made for boxing and is very high level but exposes you big time. HOwever, he has by MMA standards extreme 1 punch KO power and he is extremely tough. He is one tough dude for sure. Kimbo would get "sliced" by him. Put him in against a guy with decent all around and you have an intriquing matchup. But again, I abide by the notion that these kind of "EliteXCough" fights are not good for the sport and are taking the spotlight away from young guys that have had their sites set on UFC for years and have trained specifically for the moment.
> 
> The way the UFC monopolizes almost every facet of each fighter and the amount of PPV buys and support they have with how little they pay their fighters, does not mean they are hurting for money. THey are beginning to represent what they disliked about other combat sports and it is really becoming more apparent. The matchups shouldn't be just about "action" as evident by increased fan booing at every lull in action or the horrible crowd reaction when Rashad escaped last night to clinch a well fought victory and the fight fans were disappointed there wasn't another "KAYO." Some MMA fans like watching two technical guys roll around on the matt for 30 minutes while noticing subtle transitions and scoff at the "backyard brawler" Vs aging Boxer. Wow..that turned into a rant but I just wish these sorts of things were not beginning to dominate discussions around the world and message boards.


I agree in some regards, but again, I see it as a bit of an over-reaction. Is the UFC truly becoming what it used to despise? Or is it the fans who are changing gears? Booing and having zero tolerance for anything that hits the ground isn't the fault of any promotion, but more so of the fans who watch said promotions. I also understand that people like to rant about how UFC is selling itself out, but why is this? I can maybe give you Slice, but look at how much he's trying to improve himself. Whether or not he'll ever challenge for the title is one thing, but if he can mold himself into a half decent fighter, the UFC and Dana White can take credit for that. Giving a once upon a time street fighter the guts and determination to become a mixed martial artist. 

JT I can also give you. He's not a mixed martial artist, and I suspect he might be a one and done deal. I'd rather see him work his way up and prove himself rather than get an immediate high profile bout, and if that ends up being the case, can we really fault the UFC for giving the man a shot? Boxing is very much a part of the sport of MMA. So, we keep on talking about this circus that MMA is becoming, yet I can only concede *two* fighters. I won't at all toss out Lesnar's name, as he's proving himself to be rather skilled, and was a solid investment on the UFC's part prior to his illness. Yes, he was the WWE Champion. But that makes him no less riddled with the potential to do great things. This isn't directed at you in particular. I just feel that we're jumping the gun on the 'MMA is becoming professional wrestling' claims.


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## CornbreadBB

His high cholesterol.


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## daveh98

Canadian Psycho said:


> I agree in some regards, but again, I see it as a bit of an over-reaction. Is the UFC truly becoming what it used to despise? Or is it the fans who are changing gears? Booing and having zero tolerance for anything that hits the ground isn't the fault of any promotion, but more so of the fans who watch said promotions. I also understand that people like to rant about how UFC is selling itself out, but why is this? I can maybe give you Slice, but look at how much he's trying to improve himself. Whether or not he'll ever challenge for the title is one thing, but if he can mold himself into a half decent fighter, the UFC and Dana White can take credit for that. Giving a once upon a time street fighter the guts and determination to become a mixed martial artist.
> 
> JT I can also give you. He's not a mixed martial artist, and I suspect he might be a one and done deal. I'd rather see him work his way up and prove himself rather than get an immediate high profile bout, and if that ends up being the case, can we really fault the UFC for giving the man a shot? Boxing is very much a part of the sport of MMA. So, we keep on talking about this circus that MMA is becoming, yet I can only concede *two* fighters. I won't at all toss out Lesnar's name, as he's proving himself to be rather skilled, and was a solid investment on the UFC's part prior to his illness. Yes, he was the WWE Champion. But that makes him no less riddled with the potential to do great things. This isn't directed at you in particular. I just feel that we're jumping the gun on the 'MMA is becoming professional wrestling' claims.


I hear ya but I actually think it is because of the promotion that the fans are acting this way. As the UFC has become more profit oriented, they have begun to cater to "whatever sells." (for the most part). Back in the day, it was not uncommon to see a lot of ground game and transition despite having a slower pace. The promotion is matching the "grappler with the striker" because it will either end in a KAYO or a fascinating "inverted triangle" or something to that effect because styles makes fights. The fans have thus shaped their expectations on very marketable fight match ups. This isn't all the time true, but you are seeing it with more and more frequency and you can literally see Dana's face get red when there are lulls. ALso....fighters stand up way too quickly now even though they may be advancing position but its just not dramatic enough. This is all due to the promotion and therefore shaping or re-shaping fan expectation. I like the UFC that just puts on the bests fights and not "styles makes fights." If it is a BJJ Vs BJJ....have at it because I appreciate the subtleties of the fights. 

It is in ways why a lot of people not that into boxing "don't get it" when there is a big fight on PPV. Usually, the fighters are so high level and advanced, it becomes a chess match of who will get the win. But what they don't see is how amazingly fast and efficiently they pummel there opposition before getting to that PPV in their fights on Sho Box, HBO and FSN. At least that is my beliefs on this...


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## donE85hot

Danm2501 said:


> Giving Toney a fight with Kimbo is exactly what he wants, a guy with very average stand-up skills that's just going to stand in front of him and get knocked out. I'd love to see the UFC give him someone like Jon Jones, a guy that's on the rise and is looking for a big name win to propel him to the big stage. I'd love to see Toney getting slammed and KTFO by Jones. Would be so much more entertaining than seeing him knock out Kimbo in round 1. I don't see how that helps the UFC, I'd bet that Kimbo's more of a cash cow than Toney will ever be, having him get knocked out by Toney would arguably hurt the UFC more than it'd help them.


i don't think so. if you did your research you would know kimbos first MMA mach was ageist Ray Mercer and the and was quick to take him down


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## BrutalKO

...Tony is too old & slow. He still has some skills left with that punchinig power. That never goes away but his cardio is not of an MMA heavyweight. Not everyone is Randy Couture. Kimbo is a fist thrower. That's all he ever did. Kimbo is now starting to grasp some groundgame techniques. Slice didn't come out of the box yesterday and he's a baby still learning how to crawl. 
...Boxing is a pretty good base to start with but it won't be enough to how fast MMA is progressing. Jon Jones is a great example of that. 22 years old, Grecco wrestling backround and some ruthless striking. Now he's getting in line for a title shot soon. I'm not raggin' Tony, it's just how much time will it take at his age to even be a contender? He has so much to learn and his clock is running out fast. The UFC HW's are no joke...

...I'd say Tony should fight Gabe Gonzaga. Let him deal with a 250 lb plus, Jiu Jitsu black belt on top of him.


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## TraMaI

Toney is 41, put him against Kimbo, if he wins, give him Hardonk and watch him get murdered, then cut him.


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## JoshKnows46

I'd like to see him fight junior dos santos, or cain velazques....cus i think it would be funny to see him get beat in quick fashion....cain can take him down at will and pound his head into the mat...but it would be better for the sport if junior dos santos could ko him in the stand-up.

kimbo would be the worst fight the ufc could give him, it would be a Guarenteed win for toney, and kill that cash cow, that is kimbo...kimbo needs to try to get down to lhw cus he is too small for heavywieght...kimbo getting ko'd in the 1st round, wouldn't help the ufc in the least. how is him fighting kimbo a good idea at all?, kimbo doesn't even know how to cut off the ring, and he couldn't even ko a lightheavy wieght with a weak chin, in houston alexa, he would never KO toney, and he would get imbarrased with toney's movement in and out of range.


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## donE85hot

its going to be Kimbo because Dana knows its a win win situation.
If Kimbo wins well every one loves to watch kimbo and it just more hype for him.
If Toney wins Dana will be able to market him as a top Heavyweight Boxer in MMA. (even if he is washed up)


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## JoshKnows46

donE85hot said:


> its going to be Kimbo because Dana knows its a win win situation.
> If Kimbo wins well every one loves to watch kimbo and it just more hype for him.
> If Toney wins Dana will be able to market him as a top Heavyweight Boxer in MMA. (even if he is washed up)


everyone knows toney is washed up, and there is only one outcome to the fight, kimbo getting Ko'd in the first round...the ufc would lose, they let a washed up boxer come in and KO one of there popular fighters.


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## BobbyCooper

Dana would lose a lot of credits if he signs this guy! How can you even think about doing so? Inexplicable!!!:confused03:


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## JoshKnows46

BobbyCooper said:


> Dana would lose a lot of credits if he signs this guy! How can you even think about doing so? Inexplicable!!!:confused03:


dana already signed kimbo....how would signing a guy that would beat kimbo be any more inexplicable?....the ufc is full of great fighters, signing a few freak shows wont hurt the ufc...and dana is gonna do what the fans want, and what makes him and the ufc the most money.


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## BobbyCooper

Yea I guess youre right! It's business sad but true...

and the thing wich is even more laughable is that ppl actually wanna see guys like him compete in the ufc! And they probably call themself MMA Fans lol


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## JoshKnows46

BobbyCooper said:


> Yea I guess youre right! It's business sad but true...
> 
> and the thing wich is even more laughable is that ppl actually wanna see guys like him compete in the ufc! And they probably call themself MMA Fans lol



i've been a mma fan for a while, and i wont lie...i wouldn't mind seeing Santos, or Cain shutting this dudes mouth...i enjoy all aspects on mma, but i wouldn't mind seeing a stand-up fight with toney and cro cop....when mma first started out you didn't have well rounded guys like you do today, and it was purly wrestler vs boxer, or boxer vs kickboxer, to see which disapline was better...i'd like to see how toney would do against some of the stand-up guys in the ufc...obviously anyone that takes him down will win.


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## Mr. Sparkle

The only way I can condone letting Toney in the UFC is if he fights Dana. That I'd pay to see. Otherwise they should get him to fight Tank Abbot, if the intent really is a side show fight.


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## _JB_

Never heard of him.........

Who is he?


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## JoshKnows46




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## Mr. Sparkle

JoshKnows46 said:


>


He is starting to remind me of the topless women one sees on National Geographic specials.


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## Toxic

Mr. Sparkle said:


> He is starting to remind me of the topless women one sees on National Geographic specials.


Apparently I wasn't the only one with a habit of borrowing a certain magazine from the library in grade school....


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## G_Land

The guy is on the fast track to gettin the shite kicked out of him....hes gonna get hurt


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## Roflcopter

Oh god, I see the Kimbo fight already. Which would be sad, because Toney would own Kimbo.


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## JimmyJames

G_Land said:


> Give him to Kimbo HAHA


This ^^^^^ is exactly what I was thinking and want to see happen.


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## G_Land

I dont see this as being bad...Yes this is another can wanting to fight and he is gonna get hurt BUT when he does get get owned..and he will....maybe that will send a message to all the other wanna bes that think just because they have some hands they think they can fight MMA....


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## GKY

Honestly, JDS or Cro Cop. The UFC would want a big cash fight, that shows the clear superiority of MMA fighters. Mirko would kick his legs into next week, and JDS would either KO him with a punch or sub him quickly.


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## Roflcopter

JDS would destroy Toney. Toney is fat and old and out of shape. JDS is a young stud with speed and dynamite in his hands. 

Cro Cop would just kick the shit out of Toney.

Toney should fight Kimbo, whom he'd beat easily.



BobbyCooper said:


> Yea I guess youre right! It's business sad but true...
> 
> and the thing wich is even more laughable is that ppl actually wanna see guys like him compete in the ufc! And they probably call themself MMA Fans lol


IMO Dana would've never done this without the competition from Strikeforce. I think the pressure from seeing Strikeforce sign guys like Walker and Lashley made him do this to combat them. He was hesitant to sign Lashley because he didn't like to sign freak shows although Bobby is much more legit than Toney or Walker, and I think he's not going to make that mistake again.


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## Davisty69

How about Cain Valasquez vs. Toney? Unless he was retarded and tried to stand with him. 

However, Cain would be good enought to take him down and destroy him. Hell, give him Brock so he can get his mouth shut. I'm tired of boxers talking sh** all the time. Let them come over, and give them the worst matchup possible. Humility is a bit** isn't it.


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## donE85hot

i think Dana is going to play it smart. also i'm sher James Toney will have a say in who he fights. its not like hes a nobody of the street just trying to get a fight. i herd him say Kimbo a few times so i really hope it going to be him. 
i think Kimbo would take it he has a lot of good guys at ATT and they would instruct him to take him down. no mater how bad Kimbo's ground is Toneys will be a lot worse


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## alizio

Kimbo 

/thread


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## coldcall420

Stokes said:


> Toney vs. Kimbo anyone? I wouldn't mind seeing that fight.


 
Where did you buy that action figure in your avy:confused05:


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## Light_Speed

TONEY VS CHUCK LIDDEL...... MAKE IT HAPPEN...chuck is old too and will stand with toney would be nice to see...or maybe give him a can fight first....and tooney wieghs like 210 pounds so light heavy is whats going to happen


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## betii

*James Toney: "I have put the ball in Dana's court"*

James Toney is dead serious and intent on getting in the UFC:



> On meeting with Dana White and joining the UFC...
> 
> "Everything went good man. I can’t complain about it. We went in and took care of our business and now we’re going to see if he puts his money where his mouth is."
> 
> "I want Brock Lesnar and I know, unfortunately, he’s injured right now and had surgery, but I want him, Kimbo, Kendra, whatever his name is, Randy Couture, Chuck Liddell or whoever."
> 
> "They think I will get my ass whooped. They will all be disappointed. You know I got a very big mouth and it can’t be shut. I have never been stopped in damn near 90 professional boxing fights and never will be. I still do my thing. They let a street fighter in the UFC; I know they can let a future Hall of Fame boxer with real fighting skills and credentials in there, but they scared."
> 
> "They see what I did to peoples face with 10 oz. gloves, right? My chin is great dog! I ain’t even worried about that. Just show them the video tape of these fighters after I finish hitting them with 4 oz. gloves. They gotta get this shit together man; can’t nobody see me in this game. They talking about ground game? That don’t mean nothing to me dog. Number one, I ain’t going to allow none of them boys to lay on top of me like a lil’ ***, you know what I’m saying?"
> 
> "I have put the ball in Dana’s court and if he doesn’t do it, everybody will know he’s scared."
> 
> "I ain’t going to the ground; that ain’t happening. I got one of the best mixed martial arts trainers in the world, which is my daddy. You know what I’m saying? He is one of the original death fighters. They fought to the death, like in them movies, but it’s a matter of time. I will be ready to go."


More in the full interview:

*JAMES TONEY: "THEY LET A STREET FIGHTER IN THE UFC...I HAVE PUT THE BALL IN DANA'S COURT"*


----------



## Liddellianenko

um yeah Toney, you ain't goin to the ground, sure whatever you say. After all, getting beat up by your dad is surefire defense against guys who've spent 20+ years training to take you down. 

More likely one of those **** will dump you on your head 5 secs into the fight and punch your fat skull in. 

I'm guessing he's just doing this do hype himself up, but man he'll have to eat his words. Look at how mediocre most top kicboxers like Schlit, Hunt, Ludwig etc. are doing in MMA.. Does Toney think he's such hot shit with HALF of the skillset they posess?


----------



## Hawndo

Liddellianenko said:


> More likely one of those **** will dump you on your head 5 secs into the fight and punch your fat skull in.


Don't need to type anything really, this summs it up.


----------



## Danm2501

Yep, I'd definitely put him in with Jon Jones now. Someone that's gonna pick him up, slam him on his head, move into the mount and pound the hell out of him. Sure we won't see that though. We'll see Kimbo standing in front of him trying to knock him out.


----------



## Nefilim777

Kendra?!


----------



## Hawndo

Nefilim777 said:


> Kendra?!


I think he's trying to poke a joke at Kimbo but not sure.


----------



## G_Land

OMG Dana has to bring this guy in now. Give him to Randy he would destroy Tony...Better yet...i cant believe i would say this... But give him to Tito..Because you know Tito would take him down in a flash and just destroy him in the mount or the guard. Yep im settled on Tito/Randy. I doubt Randy would because he wouldnt gain anything. And the same for Tito but oh well anybody they put up against him will just completly destroy him.


----------



## Nefilim777

Hawndo said:


> I think he's trying to poke a joke at Kimbo but not sure.


Yeah I'm lost mate.


----------



## RaisingCajun

We all know that a professional boxer, especially one with Toney's credentials, can knock anyone out with 4oz gloves. Just ask Tim Silvia. But personally, I dont want to see a 41 year old boxer in MMA.


----------



## bbfsluva

yup, he'd have to land a punch quick and since basically all these guys are extemely hittable, it's possible he could knock them out. i'm quite sure he's a better puncher than anyone in mma now. that being said, i have to agree with what raisingcajun said. there are enough old farts in the ufc now. don't need another one. unless they really do start a "legends" (pc for old and washed up) division for mma. lol


----------



## RaisingCajun

bbfsluva said:


> yup, he'd have to land a punch quick and since basically all these guys are extemely hittable, it's possible he could knock them out. i'm quite sure he's a better puncher than anyone in mma now. that being said, i have to agree with what raisingcajun said. there are enough old farts in the ufc now. don't need another one. unless they really do start a "legends" (pc for old and washed up) division for mma. lol


Hey you are on to something ... how about a 40 and over division.


----------



## G_Land

HA that would be great


----------



## mr jim

i would love to see hardonk chop toney down with his brutal legkicks!


----------



## Terry77

Dear lord I love James Toney. I must meet Toney's death fighting daddy.


----------



## TERMINATOR

f**K it feed him brock teh first match we will see how long it takes before the fight goes to the ground.


----------



## JoshKnows46

If he fights at lhw, i'd like to see jon jones toss him around, and drop elbows in to his face.

please make it happen dana white :thumb02:raise01:


----------



## Damon1698

TERMINATOR said:


> f**K it feed him brock teh first match we will see how long it takes before the fight goes to the ground.


give him to kimbo, so I can pray for a double ko


----------



## JoshKnows46

give him to jon jones.... would be the best, he would suplex the shit out of toney.

please make it happen raise01:


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

Give James Toney a sandwich, some bus fare and send him on his way.


----------



## alizio

alot of ppl here likely dont really know how talented James "Lights Out" Toney really was in his prime. He was a p4p kind of guy in the early 90s. Middleweight Champion, Super Middleweight Champion, Crusierweight Champion, hell he even won a few fights as a heavyweight. Freddie Roach says he is the most naturally talented boxer he ever trained..... the same Freddie Roach who currently trains Manny Pacquiao.

Obviously he is past his prime but if they send somebody in there to straight stand and bang with James Toney i could see said person getting KTFO. James is just a nasty guy with real boxing skills, i mean skills that would make Anderson Silva look silly if we are talking about throwing hands only and he has (at his age it might be HAD) an iron jaw.

I dont think he could beat anybody that would take it to the mat but anybody foolish enough to exchange hands with him..... 

i say Toney vs Belfort


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

alizio said:


> alot of ppl here likely dont really know how talented James "Lights Out" Toney really was in his prime. He was a p4p kind of guy in the early 90s. Middleweight Champion, Super Middleweight Champion, Crusierweight Champion, hell he even won a few fights as a heavyweight. Freddie Roach says he is the most naturally talented boxer he ever trained..... the same Freddie Roach who currently trains Manny Pacquiao.
> 
> Obviously he is past his prime but if they send somebody in there to straight stand and bang with James Toney i could see said person getting KTFO. James is just a nasty guy with real boxing skills, i mean skills that would make Anderson Silva look silly if we are talking about throwing hands only and he has (at his age it might be HAD) an iron jaw.
> 
> I dont think he could beat anybody that would take it to the mat but anybody foolish enough to exchange hands with him.....
> 
> i say Toney vs Belfort


This is MMA, so I don't think the UFC should go out of its way to tailor fights for Toney.


----------



## JoshKnows46

Belfort would get ko'd in the first round, the ufc needs to put him against someone that will take it straight to the ground.

the only guy that might be able to stand with toney is anderson silva, and that would be becuase he could put him in the clinch, and use knees and kicks....it would be cruel for the ufc to feed belfort to toney, and it wouldn't be smart, i think belfort would be stupid anuff to stand with him and throw hands....don't see toney getting knocked out with just hands.

give him jon jones, anderson silva, or randy couture.


----------



## Fordness

JoshKnows46 said:


> If he fights at lhw, i'd like to see jon jones toss him around, and drop elbows in to his face.
> 
> please make it happen dana white :thumb02:raise01:


I seriously doubt Toney would be cutting down to 205 anytime soon. He hasn't boxed at that weight for a good 6 or 7 years. He usually fights around 230. Though it fluctuates given his training (ie. steroid) regimen. Plus, he's calling out heavyweights. I assume he's done enough research to know who the guys are at the weight he wants to fight at.

I really have little interest in seeing Toney fight MMA. He WAS once a great boxer. But a plodding, stationary counter-puncher with no grappling or kickboxing skills whatsoever is going to get run over by about anyone in the HW division. I think even Kimbo would manage to get him down and pound him.

I guess if anything, I'd like to see him fight Anderson Silva with no weight restriction. That way Toney can come in at his usual clinically obese 235, and Anderson can show him (and all the "boxing > mma" lip-flappers) just how much difference there is between boxing and MMA striking.


----------



## JoshKnows46

Fordness said:


> I seriously doubt Toney would be cutting down to 205 anytime soon. He hasn't boxed at that weight for a good 6 or 7 years. He usually fights around 230. Though it fluctuates given his training (ie. steroid) regimen. Plus, he's calling out heavyweights. I assume he's done enough research to know who the guys are at the weight he wants to fight at.
> 
> I really have little interest in seeing Toney fight MMA. He WAS once a great boxer. But a plodding, stationary counter-puncher with no grappling or kickboxing skills whatsoever is going to get run over by about anyone in the HW division. I think even Kimbo would manage to get him down and pound him.
> 
> I guess if anything, I'd like to see him fight Anderson Silva with no weight restriction. That way Toney can come in at his usual clinically obese 235, and Anderson can show him (and all the "boxing > mma" lip-flappers) just how much difference there is between boxing and MMA striking.



he has called out guys at lhw..like chuck liddel, and randy couture....when he talked to dana white in that interview, he said he'd be willing to fight at lhw or heavywieght.

would love to see anderson silva man handle him in the clinch...and he'd run his mouth, and anderson doesn't like disrespect, so anderson would come in mad. Would be the funniest shit ever.


----------



## ramram22

Do the obvious Toney vs Kimbo, why not two attractions who will never be a top 10 fighter


----------



## HexRei

JoshKnows46 said:


> Belfort would get ko'd in the first round, the ufc needs to put him against someone that will take it straight to the ground.
> 
> the only guy that might be able to stand with toney is anderson silva, and that would be becuase he could put him in the clinch, and use knees and kicks....it would be cruel for the ufc to feed belfort to toney, and it wouldn't be smart, i think belfort would be stupid anuff to stand with him and throw hands....don't see toney getting knocked out with just hands.
> 
> give him jon jones, anderson silva, or randy couture.


it would be ridiculous to give him A. Silva this early on. no way.


----------



## RaisingCajun

What weight class would Toney be fighting in? From the little I have seen him on camera, sure looks very heavy weight to me.


----------



## Terry77

Toney's shoulder roll and tendancy to lean against the ropes probably won't be the best skills for mma. That said, even past his best, his hand skills are ahead of whoever is in the 205 and heavyweight classes


----------



## HexRei

RaisingCajun said:


> What weight class would Toney be fighting in? From the little I have seen him on camera, sure looks very heavy weight to me.


from what he's said he would appear to feel he can make 205 currently. he seems interested in matchups at that weight, although he also mentioned kimbo who so far has not made a LHW match yet. So maybe he wants to fight at HW and thinks Randy and Chuck would be interested in fighting him at that class.


----------



## Vale_Tudo

> They talking about ground game? That don’t mean nothing to me dog. Number one, I ain’t going to allow none of them boys to lay on top of me like a lil’ ***, you know what I’m saying?"


This guy's In for a rude awakening.

After that comment I'd like to see him fight Cain.


----------



## JoshKnows46

HexRei said:


> it would be ridiculous to give him A. Silva this early on. no way.



ofcoarse thats not gonna happen, its what i want to see...i want to see someone beat him at the stand-up, and show him what the clinch feels like, anderson would be the best suited to make that happen, most other lhw, and heavywieghts would have to take it straight to the ground...i know there is no way, but i want to see him get beat that way, so he doesn't have a excuse.

its ridiculous to put him in there with any trained mma fighter, when he has zero wrestling and zero ground game. but he's the one that wants that, so why not give him the full experience?...its pretty much a waste of any fighter in the ufc's time, exept maybe kimbo, to fight this guy...any guy with decent wrestling, gonna take him down, and destroy him. any guy stupid anuff to stand with toney, will get destroyed, too bad for him, this is mma, and you have to be able to fight from where ever the fight goes, and 98% of the fighters gonna have him on his back.


----------



## Spec0688

I dont care what people say, it MIGHT be interesting to watch him fight against another standup fighter. He would have the best hands in LHW/HW division.

no matter what people say about boxers, they have amazing hands


----------



## JoshKnows46

Spec0688 said:


> I dont care what people say, it MIGHT be interesting to watch him fight against another standup fighter. He would have the best hands in LHW/HW division.
> 
> no matter what people say about boxers, they have amazing hands


I don't think you'll find anyone that would agrue that point. he trained only his hands his entire life, he had a really good career using only his hands. only problem is, i don't think even kimbo is stupid anuff to stand with him. toney's gonna get mounted and pounded by anybody with a brain in the ufc.

thiago silva seems pretty stupid judging by the way he acted last fight, if you want toney to get a win, maybe hand him thiago.


----------



## HexRei

JoshKnows46 said:


> ofcoarse thats not gonna happen, its what i want to see...i want to see someone beat him at the stand-up, and show him what the clinch feels like, anderson would be the best suited to make that happen, most other lhw, and heavywieghts would have to take it straight to the ground...i know there is no way, but i want to see him get beat that way, so he doesn't have a excuse.
> 
> its ridiculous to put him in there with any trained mma fighter, when he has zero wrestling and zero ground game. but he's the one that wants that, so why not give him the full experience?...its pretty much a waste of any fighter in the ufc's time, exept maybe kimbo, to fight this guy...any guy with decent wrestling, gonna take him down, and destroy him. any guy stupid anuff to stand with toney, will get destroyed, too bad for him, this is mma, and you have to be able to fight from where ever the fight goes, and 98% of the fighters gonna have him on his back.


The main reason is he doesn't deserve it. Even Brock had to have three MMA bouts, two in the UFC, before coming near someone who holds a title, and I doubt there's a lot more market potential in Toney than there was in Lesnar at the time. It's unfair to the viewing public and it's unfair to the rest of the roster to let him waltz in and fight someone who might very well be the UFC's P4P best fighter. There are half a dozen guys who deserve a crack at Silva before him. Would Dana let the best BJJ practitioner in the world have a crack at today's A. Silva, with zero MMA bouts under their belt, at 41 years old? Doubtful.


----------



## JoshKnows46

HexRei said:


> The main reason is he doesn't deserve it. Even Brock had to have three MMA bouts, two in the UFC, before coming near someone who holds a title, and I doubt there's a lot more market potential in Toney than there was in Lesnar at the time. It's unfair to the viewing public and it's unfair to the rest of the roster to let him waltz in and fight someone who might very well be the UFC's P4P best fighter. There are half a dozen guys who deserve a crack at Silva before him. Would Dana let the best BJJ practitioner in the world have a crack at today's A. Silva, with zero MMA bouts under their belt, at 41 years old? Doubtful.



I know all of this, still doesn't make me want to see it happen any less...never once did i believe this would happen.

it wouldn't be giving him a fight, it would be giving him the chance at a beating...its not the same as brock, brock had a chance to beat the champ, toney has 0% chance against anderson.

well, give him jon jones, or matt hammil.


----------



## swpthleg

Any talented addition to the LHW division would be a good thing. 

It's exciting already and with all the injuries lately, there need to be a few more fighters on the roster in all weight classes IMO.


----------



## fosure

*The UFC and James Toney: what to expect…maybe*

It’s a debate that has been raging for a long time, albeit needlessly so. There have been some moments of common sense on both sides, but they are usually drowned out by the roar of both sides; pro-MMA and pro-boxing. The question at hand: who wins in a fight, an elite pro boxer or an elite pro MMA fighter?

The voices of reason for both sides say basically the same thing: depends on where the fight takes place, and the rules that come with said location. If the fight happens in a boxing ring, then it happens to be a boxing match, with the rules inherent in that system, thus, the boxer wins, and fairly easily. Most MMA fighters have divided the time they spend training among four core areas, where the boxers have devoted all of their time to one. It is silly to think any MMA fighter, elite or not, could step into a boxing ring with a pro boxer of the same level and win. On the other hand, if the fight happens to occur in an MMA ring, then it’s an MMA fight, with the rules inherent in that system. Then, the MMA fighter wins - assuming he doesn’t fall prey to his own ego and try to engage the boxer in a boxing match. Put a well rounded MMA fighter in the cage, and he would own even an elite level boxer, because any MMA fighter worth his salt would take the fight to the ground instantly, and from there on out, it would be a brutal night for the boxer. The early UFCs proved this.

http://www.buddhasport.com/community/nilemmaboxingtoney/


----------



## G_Land

I stoped reading after 3 paragraphs.....way too long and theres a whole other thread on this


----------



## donE85hot

*Dana White looks serious about James Toney (thier meeting video)*

it looks like it might just will happen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0I86M_3MZg


----------



## mickkelly12

Weird!

Fronk kick back kick side check kick haha he doesnt have a clue.


----------



## Vale_Tudo

mickkelly12 said:


> Weird!
> 
> Fronk kick back kick side check kick haha he doesnt have a clue.


Exactly, he had no idea what Dana asked him.
I can see several UFC fighters lining up to fight this guy just to make a name of themselves.

And no, 3 months training wont help you stay on the feet against someone like Cain Velasquez or Jon Jones.


----------



## alizio

best part was Dana talking about Holyfield "he was on my wall".... haha Toney "you see what i did to him, right??"

Toney seems overconfident in some non existent TDD lol should be fun to see

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pvGN9ne4xI---- holyfield vs toney link


----------



## Diokhan

You don't need high caliber ground game if you got crazy stand up like Toney does. However as Chuck and Mirko showed you NEED a good takedown defense and a way to get up from the ground if you DO get taken down. Toney is 41 years old with apparently no wrestling or kickboxing background, so I have a feeling he'll get abused pretty hard by guys like Kongo and JDS standing and by pretty much everyone else on ground. 

I want to see him in ufc though if he is serious about it and works on other aspects of mma than just striking. He would have easily the best boxing in ufc and could turn the lights out from pretty much anyone if he landed couple good ones, but right now he has too many holes in his game to be a serious contender specially with his age.

Lets see what happens...


----------



## G_Land

Like I said before this guy is gonna get hurt...unless who ever he fights is dumb enough to stand with him.


----------



## donE85hot

*Dana White sndt James Toney meeting video part 1 and 2*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0I86M_3MZg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRAxDD5sKxM

dana talks about making a countdown show


----------



## Spec0688

I thought there was a option im add youtube videos to a post.


----------



## sworddemon

It looks to me like that Dana isn't really serious at all about having him in the UFC and had that meeting just because Toney has been following him around. He wanted out of that meeting so he said he wanted his manager's number so they could "figure something out" on the phone. 

As much as James Toney doesn't want to admit it, he will get taken down, put into side control and pounded out, just like Dana mentioned.


----------



## BWoods

Toney would have a lot of problems translating over to MMA. While I said before in another thread that I would like to see him fight in the UFC once or twice, I doubt he would be able to beat even lower ranked Heavyweights unless they decided to stand with him.

They guy is 41 (I believe that's right) and has been known to be less-than-disciplined in his career. His boxing skills are amazing, there's no doubting that, but his style does not translate to MMA well. His defensive style leaves one hand covering his body and the other by his head, which takes advantage of the larger gloves to offer protection against damage. He also uses his arm/elbow to negate damage from body punches. If he took a few good kicks to his arm while trying to employ that tactic, it would soon be broken.

Toney is also slow. His footwork is great and his evasion is great, but his movement is so slow. He would never get away with slowly waddling across a cage when guys like Cain, Brock, and Randy (if he returned to HW) would run circles around him. That isn't even mentioning the obvious wrestling and ground holes in his game. (Or as least speculated holes.) I kind of doubt Toney would be able to escape a Thai clinch without taking a lot of damage. 

He is probably banking on being like the Ray Mercer who fought against an MMA fighter who was stupid enough to keep him in his element and got the knockout. Though Toney will most likely end up like Ray Mercer who went into K-1 and got kicked by Remy Bonjasky (spelling?) once and quit. He said afterward "he kicked the shit out of me!"


----------



## sworddemon

I'm curious as to who Dana would match him up against if he did actually fight in the UFC. Does he put him up against and grappler and show the boxing fans that MMA is an entirely different ball game, or does he put him up against someone who will stand with him and risk the inevitable "boxing is better than MMA!!!" post-fight rhetoric?


----------



## perfection1st

I'm not the best at the match-up thing so I wouldn't know who he should fight, but I do know is that he should fight a guy that has some crazy powerful leg kicks, good power in the hands,...just well rounded, but the main thing is someone that has a good work ethic. He says he wants the best, I say give it to him, don't find someone that would fit him. I wish Fedor was in UFC, he would love to take that fight.JMO


----------



## mmawrestler

I wonder if someone like Dos Santos could beat him on the feet, Toney should at least try his hands at Kickboxing, not jump straight to the ufc. I dont care who you are, I think you should work your way up through the ranks.


----------



## perfection1st

mmawrestler said:


> I wonder if someone like Dos Santos could beat him on the feet, Toney should at least try his hands at Kickboxing, not jump straight to the ufc. I dont care who you are, I think you should work your way up through the ranks.


True That!!:thumbsup:


----------



## Fordness

BWoods said:


> Toney would have a lot of problems translating over to MMA. While I said before in another thread that I would like to see him fight in the UFC once or twice, I doubt he would be able to beat even lower ranked Heavyweights unless they decided to stand with him.
> 
> They guy is 41 (I believe that's right) and has been known to be less-than-disciplined in his career. His boxing skills are amazing, there's no doubting that, but his style does not translate to MMA well. His defensive style leaves one hand covering his body and the other by his head, which takes advantage of the larger gloves to offer protection against damage. He also uses his arm/elbow to negate damage from body punches. If he took a few good kicks to his arm while trying to employ that tactic, it would soon be broken.
> 
> Toney is also slow. His footwork is great and his evasion is great, but his movement is so slow. He would never get away with slowly waddling across a cage when guys like Cain, Brock, and Randy (if he returned to HW) would run circles around him. That isn't even mentioning the obvious wrestling and ground holes in his game. (Or as least speculated holes.) I kind of doubt Toney would be able to escape a Thai clinch without taking a lot of damage.
> 
> He is probably banking on being like the Ray Mercer who fought against an MMA fighter who was stupid enough to keep him in his element and got the knockout. Though Toney will most likely end up like Ray Mercer who went into K-1 and got kicked by Remy Bonjasky (spelling?) once and quit. He said afterward "he kicked the shit out of me!"


Correct, in every way. Hell, Toney isn't even a natural heavyweight. The dude is 5'10" and fat. 

Regardless, I don't think this will ever happen. Toney doesn't really want to transition to MMA. That would require training and getting in shape (ie. hard work). What he wants is to be handed a "super-fight" with Lesnar or Chuck or anyone that has enough drawing power to carry him to a big payday. James Toney isn't marketable at all. He's old, fat, and wasn't even a very big draw in his prime as a boxer. He'd be adding very little to a PPV. His only hope is that Dana cares enough about laying the "could a great boxer dominate in the UFC" debate to rest. Which he doesn't. Dana cares about making money and keeping his brand untarnished by this kind of nonsense. Dana will be willing to let Toney work his way up the ranks, but James won't agree to it. At least that's how I see it playing out.


----------



## Bob Pataki

James Toney vs Kimbo soon come.


----------



## perfection1st

James said it himself that he doesn't want to make this a career, he wants to get in with the best and prove that his boxing is better than UFC's best. The thing I think that would motivate PPV sales is(for me atleast), everyone would want to see MMA vs Boxing and see James get beat down. F*** letting him work up the ranks, if it was a deal like Kimbo wanting to make a career of it then yea but just to prove that boxing is better, give him what he asks for. I'm glad Dana said infront of him to his face that boxing is sh** and has been sh** for a long time.LOL


----------



## perfection1st

IMO, Kimbo would play into James' game and to be honest Kimbo would probably loose, he's just not well rounded enough yet...


----------



## Spec0688

it will be Kimbo vs Toney, but I dont think it will be the fight that Dana thinks it should be, Kimbo will try to use some ground game if the fight happens, and then im sure a lot of people will be disappointed that there was no slug fest. 

I dont know if anyone is stupid enough to stand up with toney in the HW division, if people stand with him, they just going to get DESTROYED, especially since he has smaller gloves on. I only see toney fighting in the UFC for about 2 fights max, he will get exposed on the ground...

although I would tune into the fight, would like to see how much superior a boxer matches up vs a UFC striker..


----------



## G_Land

Yeah true but what a better person to prove Kimbo has worked on the ground i would love to see Kimbo shoot in and slam Tony on that fat head. Likely???? I doubt it..


----------



## SM33

People say - 'Which is better? MMA or Boxing? Who's tougher? Mixed martial artist or boxer? They are completely different but at the end of the day, the mixed martial artist has more weapons. Boxers will always say 'What do I need to kick him for when I got my hands? He's not gonna kick me or get me on the floor cus I can just punch him out.' It's cus it's all they've been taught and they've never fought with their legs or on the ground. If you're a successful boxer, you're quite sure you can beat anyone on the planet, and no one can persuade you otherwise.

Boxer = punch face + body, protect own face + body.

MMArtist = use hands, feet, knees + elbows, attack whole body, protect own whole body, can fight stood up, on the ground or falling through the sky, use striking, grappling, submissions.

It would be Toney vs Kimbo, Toney would kill him stood up but as Spec0688 said, you'd have to be stupid. Kimbo would actually be at an advantage on the ground wow... might even see another neck-breaking suplex.

From that video, the bloke obviously hasn't got a clue about MMA and just has a chip on his shoulder about wanting to beat every fighter on the planet. If he went in the ring with any top 10 HW, they wouldn't be allowed to broadcast the fight. I feel sorry for the bloke, he's too old and doesn't know what he's getting into.


----------



## Thunder1

This dude is going to be destroyed in the cage. When his back hits the mat it'll be like watching a fish out of water. I say bring on Big Country Nelson.


----------



## gt90_hatch

Spec0688 said:


> it will be Kimbo vs Toney, but I dont think it will be the fight that Dana thinks it should be, Kimbo will try to use some ground game if the fight happens, and then im sure a lot of people will be disappointed that there was no slug fest.
> 
> I dont know if anyone is stupid enough to stand up with toney in the HW division, if people stand with him, they just going to get DESTROYED, especially since he has smaller gloves on. I only see toney fighting in the UFC for about 2 fights max, he will get exposed on the ground...
> 
> although I would tune into the fight, would like to see how much superior a boxer matches up vs a UFC striker..




this is pretty much how i feel


----------



## perfection1st

Thunder1 said:


> This dude is going to be destroyed in the cage. When his back hits the mat it'll be like watching a fish out of water. I say bring on Big Country Nelson.


BIG COUNTRY!!!!!!!!! He would be perfect for James. Lets do it...


----------



## Bob Pataki

Anyone who thinks an overweight James Toney will smash everyone on the feet needs to think again. When he's fighting some 6'4 HW who starts kicking his legs, clinching etc he's going to be in trouble. I would expect some fighters to beat him standing up, MMA standup is completely different.


----------



## betii

*James Toney: "Dana White's first offer was a joke"*

I guess Dana DID make him an offer. Interesting.



> NABO heavyweight champion and future Hall-of-Famer James "Lights Out" Toney recently reached out to FightHype.com to inform us that talks with UFC President Dana White regarding a possible debut inside the Octagon were not going so well. "Dana White's first offer was a joke and that let's me know he really don't want to do this," stated Toney, who confirmed that an offer was indeed made.


*JAMES TONEY: "DANA WHITE'S FIRST OFFER WAS A JOKE"*


----------



## JimmyJames

Dear James Toney,

The UFC is not boxing and most MMA fighters that arent well know get paid like crap. Since you havent ever fought as a MMArtist you will get paid like crap regardless of your past history as a great boxer.

Also you are not a draw, so you wont get paid like one. 

Sincerely,
JimmyJames


----------



## HitOrGetHit

JimmyJames said:


> Dear James Toney,
> 
> The UFC is not boxing and most MMA fighters that arent well know get paid like crap. Since you havent ever fought as a MMArtist you will get paid like crap regardless of your past history as a great boxer.
> 
> Also you are not a draw, so you wont get paid like one.
> 
> Sincerely,
> JimmyJames


He must have taken too many shots to the head to think that he was gonna bring home big chunks of cash. This isn't Roy Jones Jr. against Anderson Silva...


----------



## JimmyJames

HitOrGetHit said:


> He must have taken too many shots to the head to think that he was gonna bring home big chunks of cash. This isn't Roy Jones Jr. against Anderson Silva...




Sure Toney had a great career as a boxer but he wasnt much of a draw then and he surely isnt one now as a MMArtist. WTF is he thinking???????:confused03:

Greed + Arrogance


----------



## Jord -Jitsu

@JimmyJames. I hear what your saying but the UFC could make alot of money out of Toney. IMO they could promote the crap out of it.


----------



## looney liam

he obviously thinks that mma is a big cash cow right now, and he wants a piece of the action. what he doesn't realise is that its only the people at the top of the industry who make all that money.


----------



## Bob Pataki

This guy is deluded


----------



## pipe

^ well said I think you are correct.


----------



## Kreed

looney liam said:


> he obviously thinks that mma is a big cash cow right now, and he wants a piece of the action. what he doesn't realise is that its only the people at the top of the industry who make all that money.


Not entirely true most of ed soares boys are the top of the food chain and they aint getting as much a forrest let alone tito/liddell..


----------



## Drogo

The fact that DW even made an offer is disappointing, if true. Screw these freakshow fights.


----------



## Toroian

i wonder how much he is after? you think he is after a boxing payday of like a million ? or just a few hundred k ? :confused02:

i wouldnt pay him at all if i was DW


----------



## Toxic

JimmyJames said:


> Dear James Toney,
> 
> The UFC is not boxing and most MMA fighters that arent well know get paid like crap. Since you havent ever fought as a MMArtist you will get paid like crap regardless of your past history as a great boxer.
> 
> Also you are not a draw, so you wont get paid like one.
> 
> Sincerely,
> JimmyJames


This, I doubt Toney is much of a draw in boxing anymore never mind in MMA.


----------



## VICIII

I want to watch him get taken down and get cut up by some elbows but I also kind of want to see kimbo punch Meathead hard... I will not by the Pay per view for it at all though... I would not say he could pull a card by himself so who cares?

I would also not want to pay to see him in a boxing match with a MMA guy either..


----------



## mohod1982

Dana probably offered him like 3k to show and an extra 3k to win..lol


----------



## jmacjer

I could see Dana offering him 50-60k and Toney was probably expecting a number around 250-300k plus a ppv cut. I wonder if we'll see Toney headline a strikeforce card?

And for the record, I really don't have much interest in seeing James Toney fight. A younger boxer with a grappling background would be intriguing though. Someone like Wladimir Klitschko with Brock Lesnar's wrestling and Nogueira's BJJ would be something to see.


----------



## Mr. White

It was funny when Dana explained to Toney what a freak show was And Dana asked him "have you ever been kicked in the leg before? Ever checked leg kicks?" Toney responded "Yeah man, I Done it all." :sarcastic12: lol

It might pull some PPV #'s though.


----------



## vandalian

The real joke here is the idea of James Toney in the UFC.

Most pro boxers couldn't cut it among the elites of MMA, just as most MMA fighters couldn't be top guys in boxing, your average NBA player would struggle mightily in the NFL and an MLB all-star would be embarrassed in the NHL.


----------



## Toxic

vandalian said:


> The real joke here is the idea of James Toney in the UFC.
> 
> Most pro boxers couldn't cut it among the elites of MMA, just as most MMA fighters couldn't be top guys in boxing, your average NBA player would struggle mightily in the NFL and an MLB all-star would be embarrassed in the NHL.




Its just what you have trained for full time for so long, I mean Lennox Lewis said in an interview when him and Tito were doing the apprentice that was showing him some stuff and it facinated him, he said he wrestled in high school and had MMA been around when he started out he probably would have gotten into it instead of boxing. Its still one of the only boxer's I respect the opinion of because he never tried to act like he could walk in to the cage any day the closest he came was saying that he had shown Tito some boxing to but to me that holds no disrespect to the sport.


----------



## khoveraki

Drogo said:


> The fact that DW even made an offer is disappointing, if true. Screw these freakshow fights.


How is it a freakshow? if Toney trains a little wrestling, then he's a mixed martial artist. He's already got a hell of a background.


This isn't boxing vs MMA, this is MMA. If Toney comes in with ONLY his boxing of course he will lose. If he comes in with boxing, a good sprawl, sub defense, then he's an MMA fighter and it's MMA.


----------



## Damone

Drogo said:


> The fact that DW even made an offer is disappointing, if true. Screw these freakshow fights.


I find this funny, since Toney's a better athlete than most UFC fighters. Yes, even super fat James Toney.


----------



## Bob Pataki

Damone said:


> I find this funny, since Toney's a better athlete than most UFC fighters. Yes, even super fat James Toney.


And how are you quantifying that, boxing achievements?


----------



## Damone

James Toney has never been finished and has been in there with some great athletes. He has, for the most part, been competitive in his losses. MMA fighters wish they could go 12 rounds with someone like Roy Jones Jr.

James Toney, even when fat, is more athletic than most. I'm shocked he's even interested in the UFC and is pursuing them. He's above them.


----------



## khoveraki

Damone said:


> James Toney has never been finished and has been in there with some great athletes. He has, for the most part, been competitive in his losses. MMA fighters wish they could go 12 rounds with someone like Roy Jones Jr.
> 
> *James Toney, even when fat, is more athletic than most. I'm shocked he's even interested in the UFC and is pursuing them. He's above them.*


A member like you I'd assume wouldn't make ignorant statements like this... 


Guys like GSP and Alves can go 25 minutes of full contact fighting and be absolutely fine immediately afterwards for the interviews, even injured. 

And about RJJ, you know that Toney got absolutely schooled in that fight right?

And to say someone who says this about our beloved sport:



> "I ain't going to allow none of them boys to lay on me like a lil' ***, you know what I'm saying?"


Is "above" the UFC?


----------



## Spec0688

the elite fighters of the UFC can go 25 minutes, but that is rare in the UFC, you see most fighters gassing at the end of round two, and that is a shame...


----------



## Damone

He did get schooled by Roy, no doubt, but at least he hung in there until the end.


----------



## machidaisgod

vandalian said:


> The real joke here is the idea of James Toney in the UFC.
> 
> Most pro boxers couldn't cut it among the elites of MMA, just as most MMA fighters couldn't be top guys in boxing, your average NBA player would struggle mightily in the NFL and an MLB all-star would be embarrassed in the NHL.


Agree, but I can see Dana thinking it could cause more boxing fans to tune in and get hooked on MMA like I did.


----------



## Inkdot

Damone said:


> James Toney has never been finished and has been in there with some great athletes. He has, for the most part, been competitive in his losses. MMA fighters wish they could go 12 rounds with someone like Roy Jones Jr.
> 
> James Toney, even when fat, is more athletic than most. I'm shocked he's even interested in the UFC and is pursuing them. He's above them.


If you really think that low of the UFC, why are you even on these forums? Do you like the sport of MMA at all or is it just in your opinion _inferior_ to boxing? 



Spec0688 said:


> the elite fighters of the UFC can go 25 minutes, but that is rare in the UFC, you see most fighters gassing at the end of round two, and that is a shame...


Anyone whos done both wresling and boxing/kickboxing can tell you that the former demands more cardio since your using more muscle groups with more power.

Comparing 25 min boxing to 25 min MMA is like comparing oranges to apples. And yes, I've seen plenty of boxers gas, despite not using their core or their legs for power lifts like MMA fighters do routinely while _also_ boxing and kicking.


----------



## SideWays222

Damone said:


> He did get schooled by Roy, no doubt, but at least he hung in there until the end.


Lmao he is above them??? He is the one pursuing this not Dana White. James Toney gets in there nothing will happen but him get taken down and beat on... or maybe someone will kick him a few times and he will realize this isn't for him. For you to think that he is too good for MMA is sad and makes me wonder what the hell your doing on this forum anyway. You should go turn on ur vhs and watch some amazing momments in boxing and enjoy Toney being relevant in there cause that wont happen ever again. In MMA Toney is a joke and if he wants to get paid more he better put in another 2-3 years of serious training or he wont make it past the first round with most fighters.


----------



## marcthegame

say what u want about toney, but this man if motivated can do a lot of damage in the hw division. I'm pretty such he can knock out anyone in the division.


----------



## ESPADA9

Jord -Jitsu said:


> @JimmyJames. I hear what your saying but the UFC could make alot of money out of Toney. IMO they could promote the crap out of it.


What demographic do you see flocking to one of his fights (assuming he actually knows how to fight)???

I can’t think of anyone really excited about seeing him fight untill he at least shows what he can do. And past boxing matches don’t give much of an indication of his potental, this guy has been irrelevant for quite a while.

He’s a pretty good boxer, that’s all we know. If he was a big draw wouldn’t he be makning money in boxing?


----------



## BobbyCooper

Fact is nobody wants to see him compete in the MMA world except some who also support Kimbo :confused05:

This guy is over the hill and he won't make it into the second round with nearly all HW's out there. You can't compare MMA with Boxing, MMA is probably the most physical Sport we have today. You can compare MMA with K-1 wich is also a lot more straining then Boxing.


----------



## marcthegame

BobbyCooper said:


> Fact is nobody wants to see him compete in the MMA world except some who also support Kimbo :confused05:
> 
> This guy is over the hill and he won't make it into the second round with nearly all HW's out there. You can't compare MMA with Boxing, MMA is probably the most physical Sport we have today. You can compare MMA with K-1 wich is also a lot more straining then Boxing.


not sure where ur going but pretty sure pro boxers train as hard as mma guys. I'm saying it would be interesting to see him in the octagon he is a legit fighter. U can't compare kimbo to an ex middle weight champion of the world. Just became kimbo f up shit for people, don't mean u can't give a blind eye to a ex professional boxer. Just look at mma, u have 2 ex wwe wrestler being tops dogs, u got an ex nfl player with potential. It's not like toney was a bum, he at one time was a top dog in boxing. I'm not saying he's going to be good but u gotta see how he does before u assume it will be failure.


----------



## Spec0688

BobbyCooper said:


> Fact is nobody wants to see him compete in the MMA world except some who also support Kimbo :confused05:
> 
> This guy is over the hill and he won't make it into the second round with nearly all HW's out there. You can't compare MMA with Boxing, MMA is probably the most physical Sport we have today. You can compare MMA with K-1 wich is also a lot more straining then Boxing.


just because MMA forces you to train in more then one aspect doesnt mean they train harder. they would most likely put in about the same hours as a MMA fighter in the gym, its just their working mainly on their hands and footwork, while MMA fighters split up their time doing various things.


----------



## Toxic

Inkdot said:


> Anyone whos done both wresling and boxing/kickboxing can tell you that the former demands more cardio since your using more muscle groups with more power.
> 
> Comparing 25 min boxing to 25 min MMA is like comparing oranges to apples. And yes, I've seen plenty of boxers gas, despite not using their core or their legs for power lifts like MMA fighters do routinely while _also_ boxing and kicking.


Cardio depends on what you train for, just like an olympic marathon runner would gas quicker swimming than a swimmer but the swimmer would gas quicker running. We have seen many times the grappler gas striking or the striker gas grappling its a diffrent muscle group.


----------



## UrbanBounca

Why would Dana even make an offer? Honestly, I don't care to see James Toney in the UFC.


----------



## CornbreadBB

Dear Jimmy baby,

You're a fat, 41 year old boxer. You should be happy Dana offered you somtehing more than a couple fruit roll-ups.

Sincerely,

Bread.


----------



## G0K0S

It may not even be about the money. It may be what type of fight(s) Dana is offering him that Toney thinks is a joke.


----------



## Woodenhead

I have never heard of this dude before.

Put him in against Lesnar for his return bout; pay him a nickel for his troubles. Otherwise I'm not interested.


----------



## unclehulka13

marcthegame said:


> Just look at mma, u have 2 ex wwe wrestler being tops dogs, u got an ex nfl player with potential.


Since when are Brock and Lashley "top dogs"?

And LOL at Herschel Walker. Guy is like 40.


----------



## UrbanBounca

unclehulka13 said:


> Since when are Brock and Lashley "top dogs"?
> 
> And LOL at Herschel Walker. Guy is like 40.


Brock has won, and defended, the UFC HW title. He is the "top dog" in the UFC HW division.


----------



## Bob Pataki

Damone said:


> James Toney has never been finished and has been in there with some great athletes. He has, for the most part, been competitive in his losses. MMA fighters wish they could go 12 rounds with someone like Roy Jones Jr.
> 
> James Toney, even when fat, is more athletic than most. I'm shocked he's even interested in the UFC and is pursuing them. He's above them.


It depends what you class as athleticism. When it comes to hands and upper body movement in a boxing match then he's athletic. When it comes to MMA he's very much not athletic, especially not compared to UFC fighters, because we both know he wouldn't be jumping around like half of the fighters on the roster.

You really can't compare boxing athleticism and and MMA athleticism and reach the conclusion you have. Logically speaking, both sports have fighters that are respectively elite, therefore are respectively very athletic in their own sports. I'd say he is as athletic as any MMA fighter with a similar sort of record, because that's the only way to define it. Both sports require you to fight the best in the world if you are elite, and that's the big similarity that makes me disagree with you.

If you have some proper justification as to why he is more athletic than most MMA fighters, then I'm interested to know what it is. He's no more athletic than any MMA fighter who has comparable success in MMA.

You say MMA fighters wish they could go 12 rounds with RJJ, but James Toney wishes he could go 3 rounds with many of the UFC heavyweights. It's all relative.


----------



## marcthegame

unclehulka13 said:


> Since when are Brock and Lashley "top dogs"?
> 
> And LOL at Herschel Walker. Guy is like 40.


as much as i hate to say it brock is top dog in the ufc hw division. As for Lashley he will be the top dog, probably the most dangerous prospect right now. I don't know if u watch football but Walker even at 40 is a athletic specimen but only time will tell. But lashely is like the black version of brock maybe more explosive with a killer instinct.


----------



## Bob Pataki

marcthegame said:


> as much as i hate to say it brock is top dog in the ufc hw division. As for Lashley he will be the top dog, probably the most dangerous prospect right now. I don't know if u watch football but Walker even at 40 is a athletic specimen but only time will tell. But lashely is like the black version of brock maybe more explosive with a killer instinct.


Yet Brock is the one who has smashed Herring, Couture and Mir, finishing the latter 2 easily.


----------



## swpthleg

It comes down to whether or not Dana and co. feel that their potential profit outweighs any potential loss, all athleticism-related issues aside.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

swpthleg said:


> It comes down to whether or not Dana and co. feel that their potential profit outweighs any potential loss, all athleticism-related issues aside.


Very true. If Toney was matched up with a striker then the rewards could be great but the risk is much higher. People would pay to see it because it is almost guaranteed to be a standup battle. BUT if Toney got the better of the fight, then it looks a bit bad for the UFC because a boxer came in and beat a striker in an mma fight.

On the other hand the UFC could match Toney with a ground fighter. It wouldn't be nearly as attractive due to the fact that most people would think that Toney would just be taken down and submitted. BUT if Toney were to beat the grappler, then it looks extra bad that he got a win over a UFC grappler.

This wouldn't be as detremental if Toney stuck around and was a boxer turned mixed martial artist. I just don't see it happening. I would say that Toney would get a fight in, maybe a few, but then he would more than likely be finished. It could potentially hurt the UFC if a boxer came in, beat whoever he was matched up with, and then left after he was finished. Especially since this whole MMA vs. Boxing thing is going on.


----------



## Dan0

*Keith Jardine possibly James Toney's first UFC opponent*



> Keith Jardine accepts James Toney's fight challenge
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What happens when James "Light's Out" Toney lays down a challenge? Keith Jardine accepts - and even throws some money on it.
> 
> As James Toney has been interested in joining the UFC - and has even met with Dana White - he posted the following statement to the ProFightNetwork.com forum earlier this week:
> 
> "Listening to your radio show would leave me to believe its the only one that hasn't been bought out, I will tell you this, I think I beat every UFC guy out there, but Fedor, not too sure, that is a crazy Russian."
> 
> Two days ago, "The Dean" wrote back:
> 
> "I will take the Fight" and "my purse if you win, yours if I win."
> 
> At the beginning of the month, White held a behind-closed-doors meeting with Toney to discuss the possibility of him fighting in the UFC. Toney had bombarded White over the UFC 108 weekend so that the two could talk. It is unclear if White was serious during their talk, but it seems unlikely that White would sign Toney, who is currently 41 and has never fought in a professional mixed martial arts fight.
> 
> If this fight were to happen, it would see Jardine return to the heavyweight division, where he started his UFC career. He is currently set to fight Ryan Bader at UFC 110 on Feb. 21.
> 
> by Natalia Baage on January 23, 2010



Source - http://www.fiveknuckles.com/mma-news/Keith-Jardine-accepts-James-Toneys-fight-challenge.html


----------



## Machida Karate

Dan0 said:


> Source - http://www.fiveknuckles.com/mma-news/Keith-Jardine-accepts-James-Toneys-fight-challenge.html



This would be horrible news imo.... Keith the feather chin Jardine gets flash KO'ed more then any other fighter ive seen in UFC... All it will take is one shot from Toney to put him out... Jardines ground game is actually really good, he cant handle ground and pound to good against Thiago Silva though....

This is terrible news if this really is Toneys only fight... This would give him a way higher % to winning.... Toney is to good of a Head Hunter for Jardine, but if this is true thank GOD Keith has Greg Jackson as a F'ing coach because he is imo the best fight planner ive ever heard/seen and he will find a good way to submit someone like Toney...


----------



## 420atalon

Dang this is about as bad a match up as one could ask for. If Toney actually wants to be in the UFC and try to make a name for himself it is a good starter fight but it sounds more like he just wants to prove something and if that is the case this is one fight that might allow him to do so.


----------



## The Legacy

If this happens, Jardine better get the fight to the floor quick. If he thinks Houston Alexander hits hard...


----------



## The Dark Knight

Hmm, well I guess that almost confirms that even if Jardine loses to Bader in Australia he won't be cut.


----------



## Machida Karate

The Dark Knight said:


> Hmm, well I guess that almost confirms that even if Jardine loses to Bader in Australia he won't be cut.



Yeah doubtful plus i can't see Jardine fighting anywhere other then UFC, i think he will always be a threat to new guys that come into UFC which i believe he will continue to pick up little wins here and there to stay in UFC till he retires.

But like i said he does have Greg Jackson as a coach and thats the only good thing about this match-up, i fear for the easy KO though...:confused05::confused05::confused05:

And i agree this would be a sick starter fight if Toney was Actually serious about competing instead of just trying to make some kind of point....


----------



## 420atalon

The Dark Knight said:


> Hmm, well I guess that almost confirms that even if Jardine loses to Bader in Australia he won't be cut.


Not really. This isn't something Dana wants or is setting up. This is a challenge that Toney threw down and Jardine is willing to accept. 

Toney thinks he can beat any fighter in the UFC. I want to see him thrown in against a big dog so that he is embarrassed and leaves the octagon with his tail between his legs. 

I like that Jardine is willing to take this fight because he is a pretty smart guy and he knows that somebody needs to step up to these guys like Toney and put them in their place. I just don't know if Jardine is the right guy for the job.


----------



## Machida Karate

420atalon said:


> Not really. This isn't something Dana wants or is setting up. This is a challenge that Toney threw down and Jardine is willing to accept.
> 
> Toney thinks he can beat any fighter in the UFC. I want to see him thrown in against a big dog so that he is embarrassed and leaves the octagon with his tail between his legs.
> 
> I like that Jardine is willing to take this fight because he is a pretty smart guy and he knows that somebody needs to step up to these guys like Toney and put them in their place. I just don't know if Jardine is the right guy for the job.


Yeah i don't think so either, and OMG if Big Nog said ill fight him... I would bet my Dog my car my bank heck even my mama that Nog would make him leave crying!


----------



## Toxic

Wow, could Toney get a better opponent? Seriously I'm not sure its possible. Jaridine is such a conundrum though, how is it that he can take shots upon shot from Chuck and Rampage and then Wandy and Houston breathe on him and he collapses into a heap.


----------



## CaliKid925

I was hoping they would put him agains Pat Barry, so he can see how much Toney likes getting kicked. One leg kick or head kick and Toney would regret trying to fight in the UFC.


----------



## 420atalon

CaliKid925 said:


> I was hoping they would put him agains Pat Barry, so he can see how much Toney likes getting kicked. One leg kick or head kick and Toney would regret trying to fight in the UFC.


Lol, I actually want to see this now. Toney would get so flustered and Barry would just chop him one kick at a time.


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

The Legacy said:


> If this happens, Jardine better get the fight to the floor quick. If he thinks Houston Alexander hits hard...


Nothing personal, but please direct me to the irrefutable proof that Toney hits harder than Houston. I am very confused why a good portion of people on this board think Toney is a hard puncher. He is accurate, but he has never (sorry to keep flogging a dead horse) shown one punch ko power as a heavyweight - it just isn't his game. He is elusive and hard to hit (in boxing) and when one fights like that, especially leaning on the ropes, which Toney did a lot as a heavyweight, it negates ones power - he better not even think about leaning against the cage. Jardine has some ugly to watch, yet effective leg kicks. If he sticks with that and waits till Toney is limping a bit...I think it'll be game over (if the fight happens). 

There are plenty of sites where on can download Toney's fights as a heavyweight, and I think a lot can be learned about Toney as a puncher. I suggest people have a look at them. I realize it is boxing, but his frame, stature, everything is not that of a puncher with KO power. Sure, there is a chance he could catch Jardine on the button, but it is not a given.

And again, I am a huge Toney fan 'as a boxer'. His style, age and physical conditioning (which has been notoriously poor of late) does not translate, to me, to what is need to succeed in MMA. Boxing played to these weaknesses as it allowed him to slip punches and counter strike over 10 rounds as he lured opponents into the ropes while he conserved energy - of which he was a master.

This is a sad requiem for a (puffed up) heavyweight.


----------



## daveh98

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Nothing personal, but please direct me to the irrefutable proof that Toney hits harder than Houston. I am very confused why a good portion of people on this board think Toney is a hard puncher. He is accurate, but he has never (sorry to keep flogging a dead horse) shown one punch ko power as a heavyweight - it just isn't his game. He is elusive and hard to hit (in boxing) and when one fights like that, especially leaning on the ropes, which Toney did a lot as a heavyweight, it negates ones power - he better not even think about leaning against the cage. Jardine has some ugly to watch, yet effective leg kicks. If he sticks with that and waits till Toney is limping a bit...I think it'll be game over (if the fight happens).
> 
> There are plenty of sites where on can download Toney's fights as a heavyweight, and I think a lot can be learned about Toney as a puncher. I suggest people have a look at them. I realize it is boxing, but his frame, stature, everything is not that of a puncher with KO power. Sure, there is a chance he could catch Jardine on the button, but it is not a given.
> 
> And again, I am a huge Toney fan 'as a boxer'. His style, age and physical conditioning (which has been notoriously poor of late) does not translate, to me, to what is need to succeed in MMA. Boxing played to these weaknesses as it allowed him to slip punches and counter strike over 10 rounds as he lured opponents into the ropes while he conserved energy - of which he was a master.
> 
> This is a sad requiem for a (puffed up) heavyweight.


I hear what you are saying but you are failing to take into account the transition from HW boxing to HW striking in UFC. Reference back a page and see the interview with Maynard talking about fighting some 18 year old amatuer boxer. He got schooled and was surprised at how fast and powerful he was as he was described as not looking tough at all. 

Boxers punch all day long. I know because I do it. WHen I started boxing I was way too muscled. I was ordered by my trainer down in Kronk Gym (reknowned in Detroit and in the boxing community) to NOT lift any weights. I watched Bronco McKart hit the heavy bag at 155-160 pounds WAY harder than anything I have ever seen up to that point. Toney would be the hardest hitting puncher in the UFC despite his power not being recognized in the HW ranks in professional boxing. Whether or not he wins is another story because he could easily get taken to the ground, AND he needs to adjust his fight stance as a shoulder roll won't be effective. 

Again, people can read my posts on this by searching my history on why this fight shouldn't take place. However, when it comes to him fighting Jardine....he would knock that dude cold inside of 1 minute. I'd have no problem throwing down a few K in Vegas on that as well....


----------



## SpoKen

Why couldn't he fight an actual heavyweight?! Jardine could get floored and KO'd in seconds!! And I'm a Jardine fan saying this, Toney hits waaaaaay to hard for Jardine.


----------



## Machida Karate

daveh98 said:


> I hear what you are saying but you are failing to take into account the transition from HW boxing to HW striking in UFC. Reference back a page and see the interview with Maynard talking about fighting some 18 year old amatuer boxer. He got schooled and was surprised at how fast and powerful he was as he was described as not looking tough at all.
> 
> Boxers punch all day long. I know because I do it. WHen I started boxing I was way too muscled. I was ordered by my trainer down in Kronk Gym (reknowned in Detroit and in the boxing community) to NOT lift any weights. I watched Bronco McKart hit the heavy bag at 155-160 pounds WAY harder than anything I have ever seen up to that point. Toney would be the hardest hitting puncher in the UFC despite his power not being recognized in the HW ranks in professional boxing. Whether or not he wins is another story because he could easily get taken to the ground, AND he needs to adjust his fight stance as a shoulder roll won't be effective.
> 
> Again, people can read my posts on this by searching my history on why this fight shouldn't take place. However, when it comes to him fighting Jardine....he would knock that dude cold inside of 1 minute. I'd have no problem throwing down a few K in Vegas on that as well....



Ive gotten in a huge argument on here because i said u cant look at James Toneys Boxing KO record and think it applys to the 5 ounce gloves in mma.

I mean the guy has been punching bags all day for the last 30 something years... Cmon, i mean i believe it will be hard for him to get a KO getting taken down and sub'ed or getting leg kicked to the point where he cant function. But if lands especially on a questionable chin like Jardines he is going out most likely


----------



## DahStoryTella

The Legacy said:


> If this happens, Jardine better get the fight to the floor quick. If he thinks Houston Alexander hits hard...


Co-signed


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

daveh98 said:


> However, when it comes to him fighting Jardine....he would knock that dude cold inside of 1 minute. I'd have no problem throwing down a few K in Vegas on that as well....


Only if Jardine was to stand and trade with him...which I don't think even he would be stupid enough to do.

I guess we'll see if it ever comes off.


----------



## TheAxeMurderer

God I hope Dana doesn't hear about this and think its a good idea..

Id much rather see Toney matched up with someone like mir, or velasquez or even nelson..

IMO mir would be the best of the 3, I'd love to see him walk out of the octagon with one of toneys arms, but I hope they dont just hand toney his first fight on a platter like this, Jardine is a good fighter but he should stick at light heavy where he belongs and keep guarding that gate imo...


----------



## steveo412

First Jardine is probably one of the easiest fights they could give Toney. His standup is sloppy and jsut not that good, his chin isnt good either and he like never goes for takedowns in fights. Like I think Toney would KO jardine before he could get him down.



CaliKid925 said:


> I was hoping they would put him agains Pat Barry, so he can see how much Toney likes getting kicked. One leg kick or head kick and Toney would regret trying to fight in the UFC.


I think this is another bad match if you want Toney to lose. Barry has a terrible ground game so your putting Toney in a ppure standup fight. The kicks might give Barry and advantage but TOneys hands are alot better and he could definetly win this fight also.

I would honestly liek to see him against Big COuntry. Watching him get beat down and probably TKO'd or subbed by the fat man would be awesome.


----------



## SpoKen

Now that I think about it, I think he'll use a kickboxers strategy. Leg kicks for a while and back pedal, than high kicks.

Thats the only way Jardine beats him standing. And even then I only give him a 40% chance of taking it.

He has to take him down using sweeps and not be afraid of winding up on his back as I'm sure Toney has no ground game. He can muscle his way to the top only to get tapped by a rookies armbar.


----------



## The Legacy

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Nothing personal, but please direct me to the irrefutable proof that Toney hits harder than Houston.


It was a throwaway comment, but the fact that Toney is a heavyweight boxer who would probably weigh around 235 pounds and would be hitting with the small 5oz gloves...


----------



## gwabblesore

Wish it could be someone like Mir or Nog. Toney would get submitted in probably 60 seconds and then he'd just look stupid for even trying :thumbsup:

That said; Jardine's not as much of a can as some on this thread are making him out to be. I think he could definitely take this.


----------



## Machida Karate

gwabblesore said:


> Wish it could be someone like Mir or Nog. Toney would get submitted in probably 60 seconds and then he'd just look stupid for even trying :thumbsup:
> 
> That said; Jardine's not as much of a can as some on this thread are making him out to be. I think he could definitely take this.



Well for me personally i think he would win too, its just i dont want to be killing my girl friend every time i see Toney punch because he might pull a Wandy.... kapeesh ?


----------



## TheAxeMurderer

The Legacy said:


> It was a throwaway comment, but the fact that Toney is a heavyweight boxer who would probably weigh around 235 pounds and would be hitting with the small 5oz gloves...


Just being a professional heavyweight boxer does not guarantee huge knockout power. I'm sure that any professional boxer would have 10x the technique of an mmartist at the same level, but ko power isnt something you can learn. need proof? just ask forrest 'pillow hands' griffin, who afaik cuts from around 235-240


----------



## machidaisgod

Machida Karate said:


> This would be horrible news imo.... Keith the feather chin Jardine gets flash KO'ed more then any other fighter ive seen in UFC... All it will take is one shot from Toney to put him out... Jardines ground game is actually really good, he cant handle ground and pound to good against Thiago Silva though....
> 
> This is terrible news if this really is Toneys only fight... This would give him a way higher % to winning.... Toney is to good of a Head Hunter for Jardine, but if this is true thank GOD Keith has Greg Jackson as a F'ing coach because he is imo the best fight planner ive ever heard/seen and he will find a good way to submit someone like Toney...


Exxxxxxxxxceeeeeelllent, release the hounds. Toney by death blow, yes. We will be rid of that no skilled hobgoblin once and for all.


----------



## Machida Karate

machidaisgod said:


> Exxxxxxxxxceeeeeelllent, release the hounds. Toney by death blow, yes. We will be rid of that no skilled hobgoblin once and for all.


Hobgoblin i love it


----------



## steveo412

TheAxeMurderer said:


> Just being a professional heavyweight boxer does not guarantee huge knockout power. I'm sure that any professional boxer would have 10x the technique of an mmartist at the same level, but ko power isnt something you can learn. need proof? just ask forrest 'pillow hands' griffin, who afaik cuts from around 235-240


Yah but James Toney does have KO power.


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

steveo412 said:


> Yah but James Toney does have KO power.


Not as a heavyweight.


----------



## jcal

Jardine will murder Toney. Hes got awesome leg kicks from all angles (Toney will be imobile after a couple of minutes. I say Keith KO by GnP. Toney at 41 years old has probably never ever sprawled in his life. He better start practicing burpies like crazy. All keith has to do is keep his hands up and take him down (which should be super easy) and how will toney get back up? cage walk? Toney only has a punchers chance and that usually aint even close to good enough. Once he gets taken down, which he will (no TD defense), its all over. Jardine by anyway he wants to end it on the ground.


----------



## Machida Karate

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Not as a heavyweight.



Are we talking about MMA or Boxing? Because ive seen LW's throw everything into a punch and KO a guy, i think a boxer thats been hitting a bag for 30 something years knows how to throw a good punch with all his power to KO someone easily... 

Like would Shogun KO Liddel in a Boxing match? No... But he could in MMA because with almost bare fist its like a rock hitting your jaw not a dense pillow....


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

jcal said:


> Jardine will murder Toney. Hes got awesome leg kicks from all angles (Toney will be imobile after a couple of minutes. I say Keith KO by GnP. Toney at 41 years old has probably never ever sprawled in his life. He better start practicing burpies like crazy. All keith has to do is keep his hands up and take him down (which should be super easy) and how will toney get back up? cage walk? Toney only has a punchers chance and that usually aint even close to good enough. Once he gets taken down, which he will (no TD defense), its all over. Jardine by anyway he wants to end it on the ground.


<sarcasm>Yeah, but his last clear knockout was against an unknown cruiserweight 8 years ago, so he must be able to knock out anyone in the UFC now that he has aged 8 years and weights 50 pounds more (in fat) and will be fighting fighters in their prime who naturally weight as much as they do and are not blown up middleweights.</sarcasm>


----------



## Fordness

The Legacy said:


> It was a throwaway comment, but the fact that Toney is a heavyweight boxer who would probably weigh around 235 pounds and would be hitting with the small 5oz gloves...


Yeah, Toney started out as a middleweight, where he was a big puncher. Now he's a huge tub of lard, with about the same power. Jardine is the naturally bigger guy, he just cuts weight to fight at 205, whereas Toney eats a dozen donuts the morning of the weigh-in and comes in at a disgusting 235.

Remember the Jardine/Liddell fight? You think he couldn't do the same thing to a stationary target with only one possible method of attack? Toney can't move in and out, he's too slow. Jardine (much faster) would be able to keep distance, and kick the living hell out of his lead leg. After about 2 or 3 minutes of that, Toney would be ready to quit. Jardine's weakness is that he folds under heavy pressure. If anyone rushes him, he crumbles. Toney's feet aren't fast enough to apply that kind of pressure. 

Jardine TKO 1.


----------



## georgie17891

should be a tough fight for both fighters. I could see it going either way


----------



## zath the champ

While I'm all for someone accepting Toney's challenge, Jardine betting his purse on the outcome is scary. 

I mean really, how long can Keith survive off of cat food if he loses?


----------



## Mocacho

Toxic said:


> Wow, could Toney get a better opponent? Seriously I'm not sure its possible. Jaridine is such a conundrum though, how is it that he can take shots upon shot from Chuck and Rampage and then Wandy and Houston breathe on him and he collapses into a heap.


Because it is less about how hard and more about how? was it clean? where? timing? was his mouth open? closed? stepping in? moving away?


----------



## sworddemon

I want to see him against Pat Barry or Cro Cop. It's been a while since I've seen a fight ended by leg kicks.


----------



## xeberus

I actually would prefer roy nelson to take this fight 

He's going to come out of the gate to take tony down, and imagine this "huge fat dude with massive beer gut demolishes tony in 1st round" lol


----------



## Machida Karate

xeberus said:


> I actually would prefer roy nelson to take this fight
> 
> He's going to come out of the gate to take tony down, and imagine this "huge fat dude with massive beer gut demolishes tony in 1st round" lol



I agree and i think the fact that Roy Nelson isn't really a Big fighter yet so it will show that any UFC fighter would beat a boxer, and have some fat guy doing it all lol. I like this idea !


----------



## Damone

"The fat white guy just TKO'ed the fat black by tapping his big, white tummy in Toney's plump face."

Toney was heard yelling the words "Come on, dawg, quit playin'!" complete with muffled sounds as Nelson's girthy tummy smothered Toney. Roy then slaughtered a whole pig and ate it in the Octagon.


----------



## Machida Karate

Damone said:


> "The fat white guy just TKO'ed the fat black by tapping his big, white tummy in Toney's plump face."
> 
> Toney was heard yelling the words "Come on, dawg, quit playin'!" complete with muffled sounds as Nelson's girthy tummy smothered Toney. Roy then slaughtered a whole pig and ate it in the Octagon.



Instead of the Whole Rashad and Keith nipple twisting thing, Nelson should create his own Belly Rub for good luck. And maybe bring a chicken wing with him lol


----------



## Diokhan

Others already said it, but DAMN Jardine would be one of the few guys who I would actually see as underdogs vs. Toney, specially if the fight was at HW. 
Ok Jardine tosses some solid leg kicks, but those aren't really something he'll finish the fight with. Toney by flash KO...


----------



## Fieos

I see Toney quitting after a few good leg/body kicks honesty.


----------



## Life B Ez

Fieos said:


> I see Toney quitting after a few good leg/body kicks honesty.


This right here, James Toney has no idea what kind of hell is going to be unleashed on him in an MMA fight. Getting hit with six oz is a whole different game than boxing gloves. Would love to see that Philly shell work in the cage.


----------



## Spec0688

Life B Ez said:


> This right here, James Toney has no idea what kind of hell is going to be unleashed on him in an MMA fight. Getting hit with six oz is a whole different game than boxing gloves. Would love to see that Philly shell work in the cage.


I really dont see him getting hit with a smaller glove making a difference...if anything, it will help HIM having smaller gloves on. LOL!

I dont see jardine winning this though, if they want to make a example out of him...give him a wrestler


----------



## Siikk

War Sardine!


----------



## HitOrGetHit

*While reports of UFC return untrue, MMA legend Don Frye has a message for James Toney*



> Many MMA observers felt the potential for 41-year-old former boxing champion James Toney (72-6 Boxing, 0-0 MMA) to take a fight in the UFC was a bit laughable.
> 
> So imagine those same observers' reaction to the rumors that 44-year-old retired MMA legend Don Frye (20-8-1) was returning to the organization to take the fight.
> 
> Fortunately, the Frye report turned out to be one online author's idea of satire. But that doesn't mean "The Predator" doesn't have an opinion on a fight with Toney.
> 
> "I tell you what: Anybody who fights an [expletive] like James Toney or Herschel Walker or Jose Canseco or any of them other [expletives] that come into our sport at their age should be required to take them down and break as many bones as possible on them and keep them crippled for six to eight weeks," Frye recently told MMAjunkie.com Radio (www.mmajunkie.com/radio). "I'd break both their [expletive] arms so they'd have to hire somebody to wipe their ass for the next six to eight weeks. It should be a requirement."
> 
> Former pro footballer Walker makes his mixed-martial-arts debut for Strikeforce on Jan. 30. Former baseball star Canseco infamously fought under the DREAM banner in May 2009.
> 
> Frye believes former professional athletes entering the MMA game at such an advanced age are hurting the current state of the sport.
> 
> "That's why nobody respects this sport, and it's just a circus act right now," Frye said. "They have these morons come in at the age they should be sitting in the retirement home, and they walk in and get a high-dollar fight."
> 
> Frye debuted in 1996 at UFC 8 and proceeded to win 15 of his first 16 contests. During that run, Frye defeated David "Tank" Abbott, Gary Goodridge, Ken Shamrock and Gilbert Yvel, among others.
> 
> Frye's most memorable bout may be the final win of that torrid career-opening run when he and Yoshihiro Takayama, under the PRIDE banner, engaged in one of the most furious exchanges in mixed martial arts history.
> 
> Frye's latter years saw him mired in a 5-7-1 slump, and he officially hung up the gloves in late 2009 in order to pursue other opportunities, including a budding acting career that have included some national TV commercials.
> 
> So Frye most certainly is not coming back to the UFC, but the legendary brawler didn't exactly rule out at least one more trip to the cage.
> 
> "Green always talks," Frye said. "Money talks and [expletive] walks. So far, it's all been [expletive]."


http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;_y...es_message_for_Toney&prov=mmajunkie&type=lgns


----------



## Spec0688

sounds like this guy in bum hurt over something... if people at Toneys age can perform like guys at the age of 33 then why the hell shouldnt they fight??

there are some people who can handle fighting and doing other sports at a higher age then some can say at the age of 35 or so, sometimes your body just cant perform the way it used it and your forced to retire, while the guys at the age of 40 are blessed with their health, and can still perform at a high level.

I am not trying to back Toney up and get him into the UFC or anything, just saying that Frye is talking a lot of shit about age being a factor, while it may be for some and not for others...


----------



## Keanman

Spec0688 said:


> sounds like this guy in bum hurt over something... if people at Toneys age can perform like guys at the age of 33 then why the hell shouldnt they fight??
> 
> there are some people who can handle fighting and doing other sports at a higher age then some can say at the age of 35 or so, sometimes your body just cant perform the way it used it and your forced to retire, while the guys at the age of 40 are blessed with their health, and can still perform at a high level.
> 
> I am not trying to back Toney up and get him into the UFC or anything, just saying that Frye is talking a lot of shit about age being a factor, while it may be for some and not for others...


This is Don Frye we're talking about here. The guy talks s*** about his mom in his sleep.


----------



## Diokhan

Now I kinda wanna see Toney vs. Frye. 

He makes some good points (even with the **** talk mixed on them), but personally I don't mind a guy like Walker trying MMA if he is serious about it. Walker has pretty solid background already plus he is athletic as hell. Prolly wont do as well as someone like Brock anymore, but Im sure he'll give us few good fights even at his age.


----------



## Thelegend

"I tell you what: Anybody who fights an [expletive] like James Toney or Herschel Walker or Jose Canseco or any of them other [expletives] that come into our sport at their age should be required to take them down and break as many bones as possible on them and keep them crippled for six to eight weeks," Frye recently told MMAjunkie.com Radio (www.mmajunkie.com/radio). *"I'd break both their [expletive] arms so they'd have to hire somebody to wipe their ass for the next six to eight weeks.* It should be a requirement."

:happy02::winner01:This part had me ROFL for a good 3 minutes.(not because i doubt he would do it but because i know he would do it, even if he lost in the process) man i can't hate some good old Don Frye smack talk, old school at its best. Although im not sure i would group Hershel walker in with the likes of jose and james as far as freakshow fighters go. I wouldn't be surprised if he could run circles around most twenty year olds at his age.


----------



## swpthleg

It sounds like sh!t talking is as natural as sleeping and breathing to him. Or he's planning on fighting Toney, and wants to hype the fight.


----------



## daveh98

He makes valid points about the "circus act" as in getting other "celeb athletes" who are past their prime fighting in big events. This prevents the focus on giving up and comers a legit chance and takes away from marketing to focus on these "acts." However....Toney is a legit fighter. Though he wouldn't train the other aspects of MMA...doesn't mean they couldnt put him in with an opponent and have an entertaining matchup. James Toney is no herchel walker. James toney can actually throw his fists. 

he is valid on the other points though. You don't see other athletes box because they would get absolutely creamed. Boxers have done only boxing since the age of five (at least the majority of the ones at the A level). With MMA, you usually have people that excelled in say BJJ or wrestling and then have trained MMA for a few years. That is why it is more susceptible for people who are athletic at "taking a chance" and training MMA to see if they can compete. James Toney is too old of a dog to learn new tricks but that doesn't mean he couldn't get in there and have an interesting fight. 5 ounce gloves on JT and you are dealing with the biggest puncher in the UFC. I forgot who posted the link but Maynard basically admitted that an 18 year old amatuer cleaned his clock with his punching and standup and he had no answer. It was no jab at maynard; it just showed how effective boxers are at their very specific craft. That doesn't mean that it will translate to MMA if they don't train MMA. Toney wont train MMA and that is why I could care less about him fighting or any other "circus act"....as it is really bad for the sport and future credibility.


----------



## 6toes

Ok so I got curious about what fight they were talking about with Yoshihiro Takayama so I had to look it up and...WOW! I know I've seen it before but really what a great start to a fight!

And I understand Frye's point, especially in relation to Canseco. As far as Toney goes, I think with Toney's history in Boxing he stands far better a chance in MMA than most other athletes making the crossover. Of course he's at a disadvantage as far as wrestling, jj, and kicks go but his boxing of course would be phenomenal. How far it would get him? I don't know. But I wouldn't count Toney out of some decent fights quite yet. It would probably require some strategic match-ups on the UFC's part though.


----------



## Bob Pataki

I agree about circus acts likes Walker, but see it as a non issue. Tony is a legit fighter though, so that's more credible. If you saw a good MMA fighter go fight on a pro boxing show, it wouldn't be all that surprising and wouldn't damage boxing. If a football player went and tried boxing, you wouldn't even see him on a pro show. So why does MMA allow for this crap while trying to push the sport image so much? 

Truth is I really don't think it matters all that much. Sure a few haters in boxing might criticise, but while MMA keeps pulling in fans and money, what does it matter? It's not like the UFC would promote Walker like what's happening over at SF. The UFC will only do it when it's a huge name that can fight, enter Brock and Kimbo. While Kimbo makes MMA seem like a less skilled sport to the average viewer, real fans know the deal. I don't really care what the casual fans or the opposers think of the skill level and legitimacy of MMA, there's a large hardcore community that we can all discuss the sport with, and we don't even have to hear from the beer guzzling knuckle draggers.

I enjoy the sport enough to not care what certain perceptions of it are, within reason. As long as the sport keeps going, the odd can from football doesn't really bother me.


----------



## Spec0688

Walker has trained in some type of MMA form almost all his life, I forgot in what specifically, but he has numerous trophies when he was younger.


----------



## machidaisgod

How old is the Predator, used to love his fights, especially with the Master of Ground and Pound. He seems like an angry old man who just missed out on the big money while guys like Couture and Coleman are still around cashing.


----------



## DonRifle

He's 44 now. I saw him in a small role in Public Enemies last year, maybe his acting career will take off. 

His smacktalk is some quality oldschool sh**!


----------



## ZENKI1

I <3 Frye.


----------



## Bob Pataki

Spec0688 said:


> Walker has trained in some type of MMA form almost all his life, I forgot in what specifically, but he has numerous trophies when he was younger.


I doubt it comes close to Toney's boxing credentials.


----------



## Machida Karate

*James Toney: "I'm the Real Ultimate Fighter" and said he could beat Brock....*

LOL OH JAMES TONY... I think its you that's gonna go Lights Out....

And I LOVE when he mentions BROCK LESNA..,.. Kimba.... Oh i mean Simba....

Ur NOT GETTING KIMBO...... I say we give him what he wants.... BROCK that would put me to sleep with a smile


Its just getting to the Point where its SUPER obvious he is trying to stir hype and pulling bull from his ass like mentioning Brock... 

It almost hurts to watch.....


----------



## hellholming

the best pound for pound fighter?? maybe the best cheeseburger for pound fighter....


----------



## Ansem

I think he has a mental condition :0


----------



## DahStoryTella

Ah, this dude is hilarious.

He knows how to hype himself, and get his name out there..props to him for that.

I'm sure he really doesn't think he has a chance with Brock, but for that shock value and popularity he'll drop any name he wants.

That's wassup, lmaooo.

Haha @ ''Klitschko Sisters''


----------



## Machida Karate

DahStoryTella said:


> Ah, this dude is hilarious.
> 
> He knows how to hype himself, and get his name out there..props to him for that.
> 
> I'm sure he really doesn't think he has a chance with Brock, but for that shock value and popularity he'll drop any name he wants.
> 
> That's wassup, lmaooo.



I know i heard Liddel and i was like interesting... Then he said Cotoure, i was like Hey Now! And then Brock Lesnar......................................................................:confused01::confused01::confused01: 

Stupid hype machine! Lol

And plus he said it himself i love it when you talk shit about me.....


----------



## BobbyCooper

I think he can beat Brock :thumbsup:

and p4p number one..yea I guess that's about true! At least he doesn't talk crap like those other wannabe's..


----------



## 6toes

Ha, I can't tell if he believes it or if he's really just trying to get attention. Despite the whole "Freakshow" stigma that will get attached, I actually do want to see Toney fight in MMA, preferably in the UFC. I wonder if he's actually done any MMA training.

Lol...Klitschko Sisters...


----------



## G0K0S

I would pay a lot of money for Brock vs Toney. If he only wants one fight, then give him the best.

It's not a slight to the other HW fighters if he only wants one fight. If he actually wants to stay with the UFC then he needs to start off small because it's not fair to the other guys.

But one fight only? Do it big Dana. Brock vs Toney would bring in hugeeee numbers.


----------



## Machida Karate

G0K0S said:


> I would pay a lot of money for Brock vs Toney. If he only wants one fight, then give him the best.
> 
> It's not a slight to the other HW fighters if he only wants one fight. If he actually wants to stay with the UFC then he needs to start off small because it's not fair to the other guys.
> 
> But one fight only? Do it big Dana. Brock vs Toney would bring in hugeeee numbers.



That and just Piss off A LOT of people lol


----------



## G0K0S

Machida Karate said:


> That and just Piss off A LOT of people lol


Hey it's all about entertainment right? lol sometimes you gotta throw the fans a bone. This fight will make so many MMA fans so happy. Brock should just take him down like 11 times each round for complete and utter embarrassment.


----------



## Ricardinho

haha what an ass


----------



## khoveraki

Ansem said:


> I think he has a mental condition :0


Lmfao.


----------



## Machida Karate

G0K0S said:


> Hey it's all about entertainment right? lol sometimes you gotta throw the fans a bone. This fight will make so many MMA fans so happy. Brock should just take him down like 11 times each round for complete and utter embarrassment.


LOL yeah, i just think he if Dana got a lot of Biff for a lot of Hype problems like with Kimbo,

And he is trying to show places like NYC that its a Sport, they cant be throwing Belt holders a freak show match, when theres guys like Carwin and CAin, and Mir, that want that fight.

Dont get me wrong i would love to see him get rapped by the Vanilla Gorilla


----------



## BrianRClover

Like it or not this guy knows what he is doing and is doing it well. If he keeps this up eventually someone is going to demand he gets in the octagon, if not just the fans then one of these fighters he's calling out.


----------



## 6toes

BrianRClover said:


> Like it or not this guy knows what he is doing and is doing it well. If he keeps this up eventually someone is going to demand he gets in the octagon, if not just the fans then one of these fighters he's calling out.


Exactly. And as much as I don't want to buy into it...I can't help it. He's already got me interested in seeing him fight all these guys hes calling out :dunno:. Whether they maul him or he actually surprises us with some flash KO's...I do not know.


----------



## Intermission

Can't wait till he fights someone good and gets his lights knocked out (No pun intended hehe)


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

*Should James Toney be invited to be on TUF?*

Probably be the best season ever to have Toney trapped in a house with a bunch of guys for weeks on end. Just imagine the verbal exchanges.

Just for clarity...not the next series, but a series in the future. I know the next cast has been picked and it is the wrong weight.


----------



## Intermission

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Probably be the best season ever to have Toney trapped in a house with a bunch of guys for weeks on end. Just imagine the verbal exchanges.


The next season is MW, and Toney is a HW. I see where your coming from though but it wont happen.


----------



## 6toes

Wow, I didn't even think about this. That's actually a great idea. I'm sure Dana would love to but I doubt Toney would agree to this. He just wants to get into the UFC and start making money immediately, win or lose. I doubt he wants to spend weeks in a house with sweaty dudes who are actually pursuing a career in MMA. Toney just wants the big-money exhibition fights then he's out.


----------



## DahStoryTella

It's MW, so wouldnt work? Haha.

But yeah, dude is an idiot who talks big and thinks a lot of himself, in other words...RATINGS


----------



## swpthleg

It's a ratings dream, but wrong weight class, unless he can slim down a real lot very quickly.


----------



## xeberus

I'd say no. In my mind he only has 1-2 big draw fights, but any decent wrestler is going to maul him. I wouldnt risk exposing him before cashing his name in.


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

DahStoryTella said:


> It's MW, so wouldnt work? Haha.
> 
> But yeah, dude is an idiot who talks big and thinks a lot of himself, in other words...RATINGS


I didn't mean the next one, just in general.


----------



## Intermission

xeberus said:


> I'd say no. In my mind he only has 1-2 big draw fights, but any decent wrestler is going to maul him. I wouldnt risk exposing him before cashing his name in.


Like Kimbo...


----------



## xeberus

hahahaha tony xD

I could beat brock to... If I had a shotgun and 45yards between us xD


----------



## swpthleg

It's just depressing. Whenever MMA takes a few steps forward to becoming more mainstream, someone else wants to turn it into a sideshow.


----------



## xeberus

Intermission said:


> Like Kimbo...


Not like kimbo. Tony is a different draw, where kimbo was the same and attracted mma fans. Kimbo also had 2-3 years of grappling, wrestling and submission offense/defense before tuf and he still sucks at it. Toney would be a lot worse.


----------



## 6toes

Mr. Sparkle said:


> I didn't mean the next one, just in general.


Don't worry, I understood! :thumb02:

But I think Toney will have either already gotten an MMA fight and lost or just lost interest in MMA in general by the time the right season rolls around. Honestly, if the talent on that particular season is as weak as some of the season's have been, with some clever matchmaking I could see Toney making it to the finals on some quick flash KOs. As some have already said though, once he gets in their with a wrestler its over.


----------



## Intermission

Mr. Sparkle said:


> I didn't mean the next one, just in general.


Toney wants money, he doesn't want fans. He will never accept that offer, ever. 

Sadly enough, if he does sign with the UFC then he will prob be the co-main event, taking that away from someone who deserves to be the co-main.

Money talks.


----------



## Machida Karate

swpthleg said:


> It's just depressing. Whenever MMA takes a few steps forward to becoming more mainstream, someone else wants to turn it into a sideshow.


Exactly i was like This hurts to watch... I don't want no WWF shit...

It works on the fact that everyone want to see the Big Mouth get shut up....


----------



## Intermission

Machida Karate said:


> Exactly i was like This hurts to watch... I don't want no WWF shit...
> 
> It works on the fact that everyone want to see the Big Mouth get shut up....


Unfortunately its what sells PPV's


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

Intermission said:


> Toney wants money, he doesn't want fans. He will never accept that offer, ever.
> 
> Sadly enough, if he does sign with the UFC then he will prob be the co-main event, taking that away from someone who deserves to be the co-main.
> 
> Money talks.


Yeah...I doubt he'd take it, but he could get a secret 'appearance fee' to make it worth his while.


----------



## Intermission

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Yeah...I doubt he'd take it, but he could get a secret 'appearance fee' to make it worth his while.


Oh you mean the same 'appearance fee' that Kimbo def got?


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

Intermission said:


> Oh you mean the same 'appearance fee' that Kimbo def got?


Well, that would be conjecture on my part..but I doubt Kimbo got one. I think he was glad for the shot.


----------



## xeberus

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Well, that would be conjecture on my part..but I doubt Kimbo got one. I think he was glad for the shot.


I'd guess kimbo got one. He went from making 500k a fight with elite xc... to fighting his ass off over 9 weeks to win a contract that will make him 10k a fight? 

ehhh i dunno


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

xeberus said:


> I'd guess kimbo got one. He went from making 500k a fight with elite xc... to fighting his ass off over 9 weeks to win a contract that will make him 10k a fight?
> 
> ehhh i dunno


Could be right.


----------



## Intermission

xeberus said:


> I'd guess kimbo got one. He went from making 500k a fight with elite xc... to fighting his ass off over 9 weeks to win a contract that will make him 10k a fight?
> 
> ehhh i dunno


This is right. I know Dana slipped him some money, it had to have happened...


----------



## Indestructibl3

Good idea, but the thing is his ego - I don't think there is any way Toney would do it, he already thinks he's above all MMA fighters so there is no way he would enter some house with 'n00bs' and fight it out. Don't get me wrong, I hope he does so that he can get his ass kicked by anyone with 1/8 of a ground game =)


----------



## Bobby Creek

Toney is 41 he was never known for being a knockout heavyweight. He was a power fighter as a cruiserweight in the 90's. This isn't going to happen Toney is not a draw any longer.


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

Indestructibl3 said:


> Good idea, but the thing is his ego - I don't think there is any way Toney would do it, he already thinks he's above all MMA fighters so there is no way he would enter some house with 'n00bs' and fight it out. Don't get me wrong, I hope he does so that he can get his ass kicked by anyone with 1/8 of a ground game =)


Make him a coach...he can work on boxing and let him bring in some of his choices as ground specialists (everyone else who coaches gets to bring in guys to help with their deficiencies). And, of course, when it is all over he gets the fight he so badly wants.

I am pretty sure too that he'd say no to being a contestant, but a coach, he'd probably love it.


----------



## machidaisgod

For alll those that want to see this can I get a He|| Yeah !?


----------



## js1316

Please no. We dont need TUF to have a celebrity on it every time, they did it once with Kimbo but putting Toney on a TUF series is just too much..the UFC needs real fans not just people who wanna see knockouts because people like Toney and Kimbo are involved. 

Toney = slow boxer with KO power
Kimbo = slow.

WTF? Toney will get whooped by any decent striker in MMA and so will Kimbo(already happened).


----------



## js1316

Intermission said:


> Unfortunately its what sells PPV's


I could care less about that...

Honestly I have been watching a lot more Strikeforce lately. They dont do as much of the BS that the UFC does to hype up a fight and its not nearly as mainstream. The fighters they have are equal on skill level to what the UFC has minus the name..period.

James Toney, go back to boxing and lose a few more brain cells you illiterate tool. Liddell, Brock, and Randy would all destroy your fat ass.


----------



## machidaisgod

He used to train at Kronk when I was an amateur there and he and Michael Moorer put on some shows, but he has apparently taken massive brain damage, who gets Alzheimers first Vanderlei or Toney? But Toney is funny...Simba, that would be a great draw.


----------



## _CaptainRon

Seriously, stick to boxing... I enjoy watching you box, not getting double-legged and gnp'd in the first round. Toney just comes across as ignorant, not contraversial.


----------



## Machida Karate

Stokes said:


> Honestly I have been watching a lot more Strikeforce lately. They dont do as much of the BS that the UFC does to hype up a fight and its not nearly as mainstream. The fighters they have are equal on skill level to what the UFC has minus the name..period.


When did SF have equal skill level??? Ill just name 5 guys..... Brock, Machida, Anderson, GSP, Bj Penn... Each one of those guys would hold 2 belts there or more.....

Skill level? NOT EVEN CLOSE.... Cmon.... You know this.....:confused01:


----------



## Soojooko

Ansem said:


> I think he has a mental condition :0


Welcome to boxing.



DahStoryTella said:


> Ah, this dude is hilarious.
> 
> He knows how to hype himself, and get his name out there..props to him for that.
> 
> I'm sure he really doesn't think he has a chance with Brock, but for that shock value and popularity he'll drop any name he wants.
> 
> That's wassup, lmaooo.
> 
> Haha @ ''Klitschko Sisters''


Yea. i thought it was funny too!



Machida Karate said:


> Exactly i was like This hurts to watch... I don't want no WWF shit...
> 
> It works on the fact that everyone want to see the Big Mouth get shut up....


MK, theres a difference between WWF bullshit and this. Toney Is a legit fighter, if a little old. Isnt it in the spirit of MMA to test style against style? Ok, it is a little freakshow-ish but saying Toney fighting in the UFC = WWF is miles off the mark.


----------



## Chileandude

Entertainment value is what has helped the UFC grow and MMA Rise in popularity and get better athletes and better paychecks for them.

I always find funny when people bag on professional wrestling but fail to realize that as a business it has a very close tie to MMA, most of you guys love Pride and they were much more similar to pro-wrestling, they even staged some fights FFS.

So like it or not, spectacle brings in buys and makes for a better atmosphere, and as long as you aren't messing with the results everything else is fairplay. The UFC is no Olympics, it's a pro-sport and it circles around money.

If you want to be elitist the UFC isn't for you, the UFC is mainstream now.

If you really care for the sport you'd support that it's growing, antics or not the odd freak-show fight won't turn the whole sport into a Joke, the top heads at ZUFFA know their ***** and won't sell out the sport for a bunch of money, they care for the future because it' their cash cow.


----------



## Machida Karate

Soojooko said:


> MK, theres a difference between WWF bullshit and this. Toney Is a legit fighter, if a little old. Isnt it in the spirit of MMA to test style against style? Ok, it is a little freakshow-ish but saying Toney fighting in the UFC = WWF is miles off the mark.



Dude I wasn't at ALL saying Toney going to UFC = WWF at all....

I was just saying i DONT want no WWF bull. Once again i get it, some drama makes the fight more interesting, but not having one MMA fight calling out arguably the best MMA HW...

And Dana's whole what ever gets the most PPV buys no matter what the freak show, scares me....

I think everything is good so far, Toney is a real threat being a Boxing Champ.

I want MMA to be more known around the world as a real sport, and get more mainstream.

Maybe Olympics years down the road, I just hope everyone doesn't feel pressured to talk this much shit just to get the fight some PPV numbers....

Ive seen some proven Fake grudges on some underground event, and it pissed me off... It just makes the sport look bad


----------



## js1316

Machida Karate said:


> When did SF have equal skill level??? Ill just name 5 guys..... Brock, Machida, Anderson, GSP, Bj Penn... Each one of those guys would hold 2 belts there or more.....
> 
> Skill level? NOT EVEN CLOSE.... Cmon.... You know this.....:confused01:


Deserves its own thread actually.


----------



## Machida Karate

Stokes said:


> Deserves its own thread actually.



How is it a argument??? Who wouldn't say UFC has better fighters???

Scott Coker even says that........

Its not fair SF cant be big as UFC they only just started there big PPV's.....

60% people call MMA, UFC.....

That's why all the top fighters go there.... 

And i know im wasting my time because you already know this lol.....


----------



## js1316

Machida Karate said:


> How is it a argument??? Who wouldn't say UFC has better fighters???
> 
> Scott Coker even says that........
> 
> Its not fair if SF was as big as UFC and there only just started there big PPV's.....
> 
> 60% people call MMA, UFC.....
> 
> That's why all the top fighters go there....
> 
> And i know im wasting my time because you already know this lol.....


No I dont, its worth an arguement to me so go check out the UFC vs. Strikeforce thread I just created. :thumbsup:


----------



## MILFHunter947

Machida Karate said:


> When did SF have equal skill level??? Ill just name 5 guys..... Brock, Machida, Anderson, GSP, Bj Penn... Each one of those guys would hold 2 belts there or more.....
> 
> Skill level? NOT EVEN CLOSE.... Cmon.... You know this.....:confused01:


i get your point and i agree with you, but come on lol, you cant just throw out the ufc champions names when comparing SF and UFC


----------



## GMK13

they should put him on TUF


----------



## kwylogb

*I agree...*



GMK13 said:


> they should put him on TUF


Now that would be funny. JT thinks he's Superman but he might find fighting a decent wrestler with some ground and pound his kryptonite.


----------



## hommage1985

Why would JT go on TUF. Hes made millions of dollars boxing. If he said Danas offer was a joke then he isn't going to fight for free on TUF.


----------



## TheAxeMurderer

MILFHunter947 said:


> i get your point and i agree with you, but come on lol, you cant just throw out the ufc champions names when comparing SF and UFC


I dunno man, im pretty sure its valid bcuz if you were to compare the champs from ufc to the champs from SF they clearly dont match up in terms of skill imo...at least until they make overroid fight fedor or strip him of his belt imo


----------



## Bebop

*James Toney - Still running his mouth*

James Toney still yapping away.

Does this guy have anything serious to offer? or would it just be a side show?


http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog...t=AqVJt9nHXm.dl9ROl_wKBCk9Eo14?urn=mma,218949


----------



## Nefilim777

Please Lord, let someone fight Toney, he'll get his ass handed to him.


----------



## Spec0688

guy just getting attention, only way he will get into the UFC/MMA. I dont really have a problem with him doing this.


----------



## ZaoSyn

Him vs Randy would be a good fight for both men. Randy because it'll be a low budget "super fight" and give him something to do while the top contenders in the LHW division are doing their fights. And for James Toney so he can either KO Randy and prove something or get beat embarrassing and shut the hell up.


----------



## Nefilim777

ZaoSyn said:


> Him vs Randy would be a good fight for both men. Randy because it'll be a low budget "super fight" and give him something to do while the top contenders in the LHW division are doing their fights. And for James Toney so he can either KO Randy and prove something or get beat embarrassing and shut the hell up.


Nah, I wouldn't want Randy to go to prison for murder, I like him too much.


----------



## Machida Karate

LOL i think hes Hilarious !


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

I can remember when James Toney's suits used to fit. I think it was last week. Has he actually gotten even fatter?


----------



## munkie

Toney is a clown. I'd actually love to see him in the UFC. He would be hurt. Granted, he can take Kimbo, oh well. Maybe the current Liddell even, I'll wait till his return fight to say anything for certain about him. Randy would absolutely gangrape Toney. Hell, anybody not named Kimbo and Houston Alexander would crush Toney. If I was Dana, I'd go ahead and pay him to get into the cage with someone like..., Gilbert Yvel, Todd Duffee or even Cheick Kongo. And after he gets absolutely demolished, then he'd have to shut the **** up and he could take what I paid him to buy a suit that fits.


----------



## Nefilim777

Actually, could Toney even make weight?


----------



## Indestructibl3

Nefilim777 said:


> Actually, could Toney even make weight?


Dun dun dunnnnnn


----------



## zarny

Toney is an old, fat, over-the-hill, broke a-- boxer desperate to make a buck. 

He sees MMA and the UFC as nothing more than a payday which is why DW would be stupid to sign him.


----------



## Damone

Bebop said:


> James Toney still yapping away.
> 
> Does this guy have anything serious to offer? or would it just be a side show?
> 
> 
> http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog...t=AqVJt9nHXm.dl9ROl_wKBCk9Eo14?urn=mma,218949


Word class boxer in many weight classes.

A household name.

Never been stopped.

Fought the greatest athletes.


----------



## G0K0S

Damone said:


> Word class boxer in many weight classes.
> 
> A household name.
> 
> Never been stopped.
> 
> Fought the greatest athletes.


He's not a household name. I guarantee no one in my household knows who he is other than myself.


----------



## machidaisgod

Hes funny, let him fight, he would be like Homer Simpson with that extra layer of bone in his head. I'd like to see him fight Marius Pudginovsky (sp), he would probably get destroyed by a guy with like 1 fight...


----------



## Damone

G0K0S said:


> He's not a household name. I guarantee no one in my household knows who he is other than myself.


Does your family live under a rock?

Let's be real, James Toney is a top class athlete, even when OD'ing on whoppers.


----------



## _RIVAL_

MMA is a young mans sport with the exception of only few.

And those few are very well seasoned..

I don't see Tony doing anything other than collecting a whooping and a paycheck in a cage against anyone remotley legitimate.


----------



## Damone

James Toney has some wrestling training and played football.

Brock Lesnar played football and has a wrestling background.

Toney has way better boxing, and a rock solid chin.

Toney can be a player. Age doesn't mean much. Toney can still go 12 rounds (Most MMA'ers couldn't do that).


----------



## _RIVAL_

Damone said:


> James Toney has some wrestling training and played football.
> 
> Brock Lesnar played football and has a wrestling background.
> 
> Toney has way better boxing, and a rock solid chin.
> 
> Toney can be a player. Age doesn't mean much. Toney can still go 12 rounds (Most MMA'ers couldn't do that).


"some wrestling training" is not equivalent to NCAA in any way shape or form.

Not even comparable.


----------



## IronMan

Nefilim777 said:


> Actually, could Toney even make weight?


Yes. He's not that big.

He's 5'10 and weighed in for his fight with Fres Oqueno (just a little more than a year ago) at 230 lbs.

Toney is not a big heavyweight. He could make 205 if he really wanted to, but he's never going to make that kind of a cut.



Damone said:


> James Toney has some wrestling training and played football.
> 
> Brock Lesnar played football and has a wrestling background.
> 
> Toney has way better boxing, and a rock solid chin.
> 
> Toney can be a player. Age doesn't mean much. Toney can still go 12 rounds (Most MMA'ers couldn't do that).


His wrestling training is trivial at best, and he lacks the size and athleticism of Lesnar. When you think about athletic boxers, Toney's not at the top of the list.

On top of that, at 41 years old, he's not going to have the ability to seriously evolve his skill set.

Toney is a great boxer, and can bring some game to the cage against pure strikers.

Is he going to be able to stay on his feet against Lesnar, or Carwin, or Velasquez? Probably not. He's going to get taken down and beat to hell.

But I'd be excited to see him in the UFC.


----------



## Soojooko

Toney rocks! I would love to see him in a fight or two. I don't think I would be disappointed if he won either! The dude has been throwing nothing but punches for 30 fecking years. His striking technique is without a doubt streets ahead of any UFC HW. Give the guy some props.

Art Jimmerson is one thing... Toney is something else completely.


----------



## hellholming

that video was hilarious!


----------



## Foose

I couldn't understand half of what he said! That guys is funny . . . dumb as a box of rocks . . . but funny.

I have an idea (not that it means anything). UFC should put him on the undercard against any wrestler or BJJ guy. Give him the standard starting pay of $4,000 - $5,000 to show. BUT, offer him a big win bonus, whatever they agree on. That way, HE has to put his mouth where the money is, lol.

I would pay to see him fight any wrestler or BJJ guy. Here's how it would go: Toney jabs, jabs, jabs, loads up swings, "insert name here" shoots and takes Toney down, "inserts 30 seconds here", Toney is submitted or TKO'd.

Freak Show over.


----------



## LjStronge

He won't sign for anything less than $150,000 to SHOW I bet, and Dana isn't stupid enough top pay that.


----------



## Foose

LjStronge said:


> He won't sign for anything less than $150,000 to SHOW I bet, and Dana isn't stupid enough top pay that.


Agreed. I'd be willing to bet he would expect 7 figures to show, lol. That's why I would love to see Dana call his bluff and give him a fight with the stipulation he only gets paid if he wins!


----------



## IronMan

Foose said:


> Agreed. I'd be willing to bet he would expect 7 figures to show, lol. That's why I would love to see Dana call his bluff and give him a fight with the stipulation he only gets paid if he wins!


That's actually a great idea.

Of course, Dana would have to give him someone really tough and well rounded to be worth it.

I nominate Gabriel Gonzaga, who I think is a great matchup for Toney as a boxer, but also gives Toney a chance to get tested on the ground.


----------



## Damone

They should slowly build Toney up in MMA.

Toney's a king-sized (Literal) smack talker, and can bring in the viewers. He's not that big of a HW (Well, he's wide), so I can see 205'ers going up to fight him.

Kimbo vs Toney would be fun, and would sell.


----------



## Bebop

Damone said:


> They should slowly build Toney up in MMA.



Toney doesn't want to be built up, he doesn't want to dedicate himself to MMA. *All he wants is a quick pay-day.* Otherwise, building him up would be the smart idea.


----------



## Thelegend

Damone said:


> They should slowly build Toney up in MMA.
> 
> Toney's a king-sized (Literal) smack talker, and can bring in the viewers. He's not that big of a HW (Well, he's wide), so I can see 205'ers going up to fight him.
> 
> Kimbo vs Toney would be fun, and would sell.





Bebop said:


> Toney doesn't want to be built up, he doesn't want to dedicate himself to MMA. *All he wants is a quick pay-day.* Otherwise, building him up would be the smart idea.


toney would have trouble making it past regional shows and getting a win in bodog fight.....he is not much of a smack talker and wasn't ever a huge draw by boxing standards so i cant imagine he can do much better as a one dimesional mma artist.-Also, no 205 fighter in their right mind would waste time fighting him when the division is so stacked and beating him amounts to beating on the referee as far as rankings is concerned.


----------



## AlphaDawg

"Anyone who hates on me is an abortion baby. An aborted baby that lived."

How can I hate James Toney with hilarious quotes like that?


----------



## chris&snoop

Thelegend said:


> toney would have trouble making it past regional shows and getting a win in bodog fight.....he is not much of a smack talker and wasn't ever a huge draw by boxing standards so i cant imagine he can do much better as a one dimesional mma artist.-Also, no 205 fighter in their right mind would waste time fighting him when the division is so stacked and beating him amounts to beating on the referee as far as rankings is concerned.


True, but Dana loves $$'s. If Toney accepted what was on the table, he would be signed for a Spike Fight Night already, he just wants more cash than Danas offering. 

On a sidenote, this to me is way more exciting in terms of a crossover...

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...-quits-boxing-Ultimate-Fighting-Champion.html


----------



## joe davola

munkie said:


> Toney is a clown. I'd actually love to see him in the UFC. He would be hurt. Granted, he can take Kimbo, oh well. Maybe the current Liddell even, I'll wait till his return fight to say anything for certain about him. Randy would absolutely gangrape Toney. Hell, anybody not named Kimbo and Houston Alexander would crush Toney. If I was Dana, I'd go ahead and pay him to get into the cage with someone like..., Gilbert Yvel, Todd Duffee or even Cheick Kongo. And after he gets absolutely demolished, then he'd have to shut the **** up and he could take what I paid him to buy a suit that fits.


kongo,duffy and yvell would be stupid enough to stand with him and get ktfo


----------



## joe davola

Foose said:


> I couldn't understand half of what he said! That guys is funny . . . dumb as a box of rocks . . . but funny.
> 
> I have an idea (not that it means anything). UFC should put him on the undercard against any wrestler or BJJ guy. Give him the standard starting pay of $4,000 - $5,000 to show. BUT, offer him a big win bonus, whatever they agree on. That way, HE has to put his mouth where the money is, lol.
> 
> I would pay to see him fight any wrestler or BJJ guy. Here's how it would go: Toney jabs, jabs, jabs, loads up swings, "insert name here" shoots and takes Toney down, "inserts 30 seconds here", Toney is submitted or TKO'd.
> 
> Freak Show over.


the guy is a boxer not a mma striker he is not going to just "load up and swing"


----------



## betii

*UFC offered James Toney a 5-fight contract*

LOL at Toney.



> According to future Hall of Famer James "Lights Out" Toney, UFC President Dana White offered him a 5-fight contract with the stipulation that he no longer compete in boxing. "Dana White is a straight up ho! He makes me a 5-fight offer for chump change and said I can't box anymore if I accept it. He must have lost his damn mind," stated Toney.


----------



## TraMaI

HAHA what does he expect? For Dana to say "Yeah, go get your skull caved in while I still have a contract with you!" And he expects a huge conract when he's a washed up, haggard old boxer who's never fought in MMA? From the biggest organization in the world? Child, please.


----------



## coldcall420

*yawn*


----------



## UrbanBounca

I think Dana was offering him a contract to shut him up. You can't expect Toney to quit Boxing, and Dana definately knew he wouldn't accept.


----------



## kamikaze145

who cares? James Toney has no skills for mma, he is a boxer. A pretty fat one who would get smashed by the college wrestlers and bjj black belts in the UFC now.


----------



## Indestructibl3

coldcall420 said:


> *yawn*


This ^^


----------



## Machida Karate

TraMaI said:


> HAHA what does he expect? For Dana to say "Yeah, go get your skull caved in while I still have a contract with you!" And he expects a huge conract when he's a washed up, haggard old boxer who's never fought in MMA? From the biggest organization in the world? Child, please.



Agreed! Waste of F'ing time! He just wants ONE fight that pays a mil thinking Dana will do it to prove MMA is better then boxing when it comes to a real fight....

SORRY TONY NO ONE CARES TO WATCH U GET SUBBED!

He is a freak show that is probably not making any more money and saw this as his chance for a quick pay check.... Pathetic


----------



## dutch sauce

he should jus go to japan and fight hong man choi or something...


----------



## SpoKen

James Toney would have been cut by his 2nd fight anyways.


----------



## Bob Pataki

I wish Dana White would just tell this idiot to stick to boxing. It gives off the impression that any boxer can just walk into the biggest mma promotion and get a contract.

James Toney is looking to exploit MMA to earn a quick buck, but even though Dana offered him a contract, he did so on terms that would ensure Toney is serious about MMA which he obviously isn't. 

Enough about this guy already.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Glad it didn't worked out! :thumbsup:

we don't need a freak show in this Sport.


----------



## Life B Ez

Who cares, he'd come in get taken down, hit a few times and quit. Than say he wasn't crying, there was something in his eye, yeah it was a fist James.


----------



## Machida Karate

Life B Ez said:


> Who cares, he'd come in get taken down, hit a few times and quit. Than say he wasn't crying, there was something in his eye, yeah it was a fist James.



LOL yeah seriously.... It would be a first round take to the ground and pounded out....

He would be like, Yeah the MMA fighter was way to scared to stand with me!

I would of killed Simba... I mean Kimbo....

Sorry Toney just because u come up with a extremely retarded name for Kimbo doesn't mean Dana is going to give u a fighter with no ground game like u want....

OR is Kimbo going to get upset and call u out...

Lets just pray this is the last we hear from this wash up.

But judging from that mouth.... I doubt it


----------



## TheGuRu

Machida Karate said:


> LOL yeah seriously.... It would be a first round take to the ground and pounded out....
> 
> He would be like, Yeah the MMA fighter was way to scared to stand with me!
> 
> I would of killed Simba... I mean Kimbo....
> 
> Sorry Toney just because u come up with a extremely retarded name for Kimbo doesn't mean Dana is going to give u a fighter with no ground game like u want....
> 
> OR is Kimbo going to get upset and call u out...
> 
> Lets just pray this is the last we hear from this wash up.
> 
> But judging from that mouth.... I doubt it



I think even Kimbo would beat Toney . . . I can see it now. Kimbo getting a take down and beating his head like a drum. Would be priceless. Simba would pounce on that ass!


----------



## Machida Karate

TheGuRu said:


> I think even Kimbo would beat Toney . . . I can see it now. Kimbo getting a take down and beating his head like a drum. Would be priceless. Simba would pounce on that ass!



Simba would pounce on that ass LOL!

IN all seriousness i see Toney killing Kimbo... I would call KO from Toney... 

Kimbo is much to sloppy for the world champ in BOXING lol....

But give him slightly better ground guy and i mean a below average ground guy even, and i see Toney getting owned....


----------



## hommage1985

BobbyCooper said:


> Glad it didn't worked out! :thumbsup:
> 
> we don't need a freak show in this Sport.


There are lots of guys with much less credibility in MMA than James Toney. Do you actually pay attention to MMA?


----------



## Damone

I think a great athlete like James Toney deserves better. I'd like to see UFC fighters go 12 rounds against top class fighters.


----------



## Ivan

Hee hee shamone.. Damone said it.. you know it..


----------



## TraMaI

So what, he'd be fighting at 205? I'm not sure. If it's 205 he has his work cut out for him with people like Shogun, Hammil, shit even BADER.

I would like to see him fight CroCop, seeing as how he wouldn't much know how to block a high kick. Would be a highlight reel KO IMO.


----------



## Nefilim777

Who could care less about Toney? He'd have one fight, get murdered and that would be it. It would barely make the main card if not for PPV interest.


----------



## BobbyCooper

hommage1985 said:


> There are lots of guys with much less credibility in MMA than James Toney. Do you actually pay attention to MMA?


No not really! Most of the time I post here in the off topic section just for a disport. But I heard that this guy called Cimbo or something fights this Entertainment Wrestler soon right? :confused02:


----------



## Nefilim777

BobbyCooper said:


> No not really! Most of the time I post here in the off topic section just for a disport. But I heard that this guy called Cimbo or something fights this Entertainment Wrestler soon right? :confused02:


Hahaha, nice one Bobby! :thumb02:


----------



## Bob Pataki

hommage1985 said:


> There are lots of guys with much less credibility in MMA than James Toney. Do you actually pay attention to MMA?


You mean guys that train MMA every day? Oh but James Toney who unless I'm mistaken is asking for 1 fight to show he's some grat fighter, get a big payout then go back to boxing?

Great, let's all embrace some overweight has-been boxer who wants to use MMA for a quick pay day.


----------



## coldcall420

hommage1985 said:


> There are lots of guys with much less credibility in MMA than James Toney. Do you actually pay attention to MMA?


There really isn't too many in the UFC, hell I bet Kimbo is way more well rounded(not that we'll be seeing him for long IMO) anyway the point is the UFC bringing in James Toney is not good for the sport IMO...plus someone above said it right, he wants one big payday, which would prob be a loss, then to go back to boxing....how does that make the UFC look???


----------



## mathruD

dana white is an idiot and possibly the biggest hypocrite in the world. i'm so tired of dana talking junk about the fights that other organizations put on, and then doing the exact same thing. it's old.


----------



## mmarash

lol who honestly cares about James Toney, I think Dana just offered him a contract to show how bad a boxer would get beat against a MMA fighter.


----------



## Damone

mmarash said:


> lol who honestly cares about James Toney, I think Dana just offered him a contract to show how bad a boxer would get beat against a MMA fighter.


Last I checked, a boxer KO'ed a former UFC champion last year.


----------



## alizio

*UFC Signs James "Lights Out" Toney to multi fight deal!!*

Quote:
After months of speculation following James Toney making his intentions to fight in the Ultimate Fighting Championship public, one of the greatest boxers of our time is now set to embark on his career in mixed martial arts. FiveOuncesofPain.com has been informed through sources close to the situation that James Toney has recently been signed to a multi-fight contract with the UFC. Toney was seen... [Read more] 


http://fiveouncesofpain.com/.com


----------



## Hawndo

Say it ain't so.......

For the money I expect his greedy paws managed to claw they better make him fight top guys and get smoked.


----------



## 6toes

Haha, no way. I honestly never though it would happen. I can't wait to see how this turns out.


----------



## Damone

RIP to a lot of guys in the UFC.

Toney is going to sprawl against top wrestlers and beat the shit out of them standing.


----------



## brief

Damone said:


> RIP to a lot of guys in the UFC.
> 
> Toney is going to sprawl against top wrestlers and beat the shit out of them standing.


now that's funny, hope it goes that way


----------



## Terry77

James Toney talking shit before face the pain?

James Toney doing the shoulder roll in the octagon?

James Toney attempting a sprawl?

YES


----------



## Damone

Terry77 said:


> James Toney talking shit before face the pain?
> 
> James Toney doing the shoulder roll in the octagon?
> 
> James Toney attempting a sprawl?
> 
> YES


Toney sticking out his tongue when a top HW hits him with a pitty patter?

Toney flexing and then punching a fool in the face?

Toney being undestructable?

YES!


----------



## alizio

sinec its a multi fight deal i think the UFC will give him a favorable matchup with a banger 1st??

alot of fun fights out there. Toney has world class hands despite his demeanor and physical appearance. he could give anybody that wants to stand and trade with him trouble.

i highly doubt he can deal with any wrestler or anybody capible on the ground and even leg kicks might overwhelm him.


----------



## Terry77

Damone said:


> Toney being undestructable?


Watching Holyfield/Toney again right now. Lulz going down 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgecPysuGB4


----------



## streetpunk08

This should be very interesting and I can't wait for Toney to come out and throw, give him Kimbo so Kimbo can get humiliated in 5 seconds by a real boxer.


----------



## Damone

Terry77 said:


> Watching Holyfield/Toney again right now. Lulz going down
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgecPysuGB4


I love that tooling, as I can't stand Evander Holyfield and his cheating, headbutting ass. Toney lumped him up. Great beating.

Plus, Toney straight played Jim Grey like a sucka. Freakin' awesome.


----------



## Brutus

This is hilarious, James Toney has been done as a boxer for years and now hes gonna try to fight in MMA? Hes gonna get humiliated.


----------



## Harness

Hope they give him someone with good stand up. I don't want him to get someone easy to KO as most boxing fans will talk more trash than they already do now.


----------



## Danm2501

How long till James Toney vs Kimbo Slice is announced then?


----------



## Nefilim777

Well at last we get to see some Toney action. I'm still struggling to think who he'll get. Either way I reckon it wont be for some time, he'll start doing some basic BJJ and Wrestling training for a while before he enters the octagon with anyone. I say give him Anderson Silva in an open weight bout.


----------



## The Legacy

Well, this is extremely interesting.

If he fights a stand-up guy who only really uses his hands like a Buentello or a Rothwell then expect to see a quick KO.

If he goes up against guys who can leg kick and dictate where the fight takes place and take him to the floor, then I'd like to think he gets beat easily.

It will be fun to watch.


----------



## SideWays222

Damone said:


> RIP to a lot of guys in the UFC.
> 
> Toney is going to sprawl against top wrestlers and beat the shit out of them standing.


Lmao

Damone you done lost your mind boy.


----------



## Nefilim777

The Legacy said:


> Well, this is extremely interesting.
> 
> If he fights a stand-up guy who only really uses his hands like a Buentello or a Rothwell then expect to see a quick KO.
> 
> If he goes up against guys who can leg kick and dictate where the fight takes place and take him to the floor, then I'd like to think he gets beat easily.
> 
> It will be fun to watch.


No one will want to stand with him though...


----------



## Chileandude

Toney VS Kimbo is the obvious fight.


It has tons of name value and Kimbo doesn't really represent MMA but street fighting, so Dana can promote the fight as street fighting vs boxing so nobody can come with the argument that Boxing > MMA.

And i think Kimbo could take on Toney, im sure Toney's ground game will be even worse than Houston Alexander so Kimbo who seems a lot more serious about doing MMA can come in with a Slam Toney on his ass and pounds his face in Gameplan and have sucess with it.


----------



## SideWays222

Nefilim777 said:


> No one will want to stand with him though...


I see a guy like Pat Berry kicking the shit out of him standing. Once those leg kicks start flying Toney will be out of his element.


----------



## Danm2501

Kimbo vs Toney is a complete freak show fight though, something Dana said he wouldn't do in the UFC. Not quite as bad a signing as Herschel Walker, as Toney's a proper fighter, but still pretty laughable. I'm interested to see him fight, as he's a serious boxer, but it's definitely a freak-show signing.


----------



## DJ Syko

what weight will he fight at i wonder? he used to the IBF MW world champion which is at 160lbs and has actually weighed in at 156Lbs a few times. So he is naturally a LW in the UFC lol and he could be fighting at HW.


----------



## Danm2501

He was cutting weight then. He stopped cutting by the end of his Boxing career, and given the fact he's 41 now I doubt he'll start cutting again. Weighed 240 for his last fight too, so I imagine he'll fight at HW.


----------



## Nefilim777

He'll fight at HW without a doubt.


----------



## EastonAssassin

i wonder what weight he's going to fight at? 

hopefully it's a light-heavy so they can feed him to james irvin, haven't seen anyone get ko'd from a superman punch in awhile.


----------



## Danm2501

I've just read that he's apparently going to turn to his Dad to learn a ground game. We could actually see Kimbo Slice dominate someone on the ground should they fight. Never thought I'd type that.


----------



## chris&snoop

I can see him facing Kimbo, or maybe someone like James Sweeney. I used to be a big big Toney fan back in the day, but recently his gumflapping has gotten a little annoying and his comments are going to come back and haunt him. He's never really had incredible power, was more of a strategic fighter who was very hard to hit, I'll be interested to see who he gets first. And I'd love to see how much coin hemanaged to wrangle out of the deal!


----------



## Nefilim777

chris&snoop said:


> I can see him facing Kimbo, or maybe someone like James Sweeney. I used to be a big big Toney fan back in the day, but recently his gumflapping has gotten a little annoying and his comments are going to come back and haunt him. He's never really had incredible power, was more of a strategic fighter who was very hard to hit, I'll be interested to see who he gets first. And I'd love to see how much coin hemanaged to wrangle out of the deal!


Problem is that Kimbo aint even on the UFC website at the moment, for some strange reason...


----------



## Damone

EastonAssassin said:


> i wonder what weight he's going to fight at?
> 
> hopefully it's a light-heavy so they can feed him to james irvin, haven't seen anyone get ko'd from a superman punch in awhile.


Being a Holmes fan myself, I am saddened by this post.


----------



## EastonAssassin

Damone said:


> Being a Holmes fan myself, I am saddened by this post.


why's that?


----------



## chris&snoop

Well Kimbos scheduled to fight Mitrione at Montreal, so I'd be surprised if they dropped that fight. But you never know with Drama Dana


----------



## streetpunk08

I want Hoooooooolmes, seriously I would pay any amount to see James McSweeney fight James Toney so I could see McSweeney get tooled


----------



## HitOrGetHit

I hope he gets completely wrecked. He is WAY too cocky for my liking.


----------



## ipbod

Despite all the criticism of boxing, at least a boxer has to earn his way to the big show. Not MMA though, a big name in another sport and no experience is all that's needed. 'No freak shows' yet Toney vs Kimbo will probably happen.

I hope Toney gets his ass kicked and sent back to boxing with his tail between his legs.


----------



## Spec0688

McSweeney would get dropped within the first 2minutes, He got dropped by meathead didnt he? unless I am mistake...


----------



## Dakota?

Well since Dana hates him i can see Toney vs Nelson....


----------



## RFC

I think He will be given Kimbo or Cro-Cop


----------



## Braveheart

i like him against Junior Dos Santos


----------



## swedish_fighter

Respect to this boxer for challenging the octagon! If he can make the weightclass, I would love to see him vs the Iceman, chuck lidell! Chuck being stand-up fighter and a out of prime could probably be a good way for Toney to enter the octagon!


----------



## UFC on VHS

wow i never thought this would actually happen.


----------



## DJ Syko

ipbod said:


> Despite all the criticism of boxing, at least a boxer has to earn his way to the big show. Not MMA though, a big name in another sport and no experience is all that's needed. 'No freak shows' yet Toney vs Kimbo will probably happen.
> 
> I hope Toney gets his ass kicked and sent back to boxing with his tail between his legs.


well MMA is a Multi skilled sport unlike Boxing and most other combat sports. So its not like brock could go into Boxing and get a world title shot straight away because he is not a boxer, but for a world class boxer to come into MMA is different. 

If your world class at one of the key skills in MMA you normally can get very far in the sport, thats why pure wrestlers do well, pure BJJ guys do well. So Its not like Toney has no MMA skills, he is a 4 weight World Boxing champion, his stand up will be good at the very least.

Remember, Brock was called a "Freak show" when he first join the UFC and he is a NCAA wrestling champion and now he is the UFC HW champion with in 4 fights. So to call Toney (a world class Striker) a freak show is a little stupid IMO. Herschel is a freak show because he has no skills coming into the sport other than his athleticism.


----------



## UFCFAN89

HitOrGetHit said:


> I hope he gets completely wrecked. He is WAY too cocky for my liking.


Yep and why would Dana give him a contract after he called him a ho?


----------



## fjurado

UFCFAN89 said:


> Yep and why would Dana give him a contract after he called him a ho?


Dana is more like a pimp.............and we know who are his Hoe's


----------



## BobbyCooper

DJ Syko said:


> well MMA is a Multi skilled sport unlike Boxing and most other combat sports. So its not like brock could go into Boxing and get a world title shot straight away because he is not a boxer, but for a world class boxer to come into MMA is different.
> 
> If your world class at one of the key skills in MMA you normally can get very far in the sport, thats why pure wrestlers do well, pure BJJ guys do well. So Its not like Toney has no MMA skills, he is a 4 weight World Boxing champion, his stand up will be good at the very least.
> 
> Remember, Brock was called a "Freak show" when he first join the UFC and he is a NCAA wrestling champion and now he is the UFC HW champion with in 4 fights. So to call Toney (a world class Striker) a freak show is a little stupid IMO. Herschel is a freak show because he has no skills coming into the sport other than his athleticism.


Herschel is a 5 or 6 degree black belt in TKD. I guess he said, that he is being into Martial Arts for 30 years now.

But Toney is a very washed up HW Boxer, without any gasstank! He looks so out of shape in his recent interviews, that I doupt he would make it into a 2 Round with any UFC fighter. And his standup is nowhere near World class anymore. It was yes but that's long gone..


----------



## zubesss

I think people are naive if they think Dana White signed Toney thinking he has a chance of being a good UFC fighter. I think DW just signed Toney to just see him get beat badly and shut his mouth up.


----------



## DJ Syko

BobbyCooper said:


> Herschel is a 5 or 6 degree black belt in TKD. I guess he said, that he is being into Martial Arts for 30 years now.
> 
> But Toney is a very washed up HW Boxer, without any gasstank! He looks so out of shape in his recent interviews, that I doupt he would make it into a 2 Round with any UFC fighter. And his standup is nowhere near World class anymore. It was yes but that's long gone..


TKD is hardly a skill needed for MMA, other than good footwork and reaction times i guess :dunno:.

But yeah, Toney is definitely not as sharp as he used to be il agree and is in bad shape, but i don't think Dana would let him in the UFC that out of shape, he despises fighters like that, so maybe he has promised him to come in shape or something. But i still dont think a former 4 weight Boxing world champ, deserves the title a freak show in MMA IMO. 

Ray mercer just KO'd Tim sylvia not so long ago and he is nearly 50, And say what you want about Sylvia but he is still 2xUFC champion with some top class wins. Boxers are dangerous opponents in MMA for anyone IMO if you dont get them on the mat quick enough.


----------



## OZjet

No Fedor, No Mousasi, No Aoki, Goodbye Henderson, but this Jerk off? so clear they are wanting to up PPV no's and appease the casual fans, not the hardcore fan. but it is a business and the casual fan base is what makes or breaks you


----------



## coldcall420

No cardio......:thumbsup:


----------



## JimmyJames

I will find it amazing if he can make weight for 205 where Dana says he is gonna fight. Toney has been really out of shape as of late, and being 41 years old wont help him at all. 

His cardio will also be horrible I suspect, and he has tested positive for steroids before.............................


----------



## HexRei

This is just a publicity thing. He is not a lesnar with ten+ years of good career ahead of him and amazing athleticism and a skillset that can nullify most grapplers. he is an aging boxer with no ground game. The UFC will probably pair him with known strikers for his first couple of fights, Kimbo, Chuck maybe, before feeding him to a powerful grappler like Randy to prove to the world what even a high level boxing skillset, without a ground game, is like in an MMA fight. Then again, if he does fight Chuck, Chuck might well just formulate a plan around takedowns anyway, he has em even if he doesn't use em much.


----------



## DahStoryTella

This is comedy, lmao.

I'm looking forward to his fight hype videos, lmfao.


----------



## ZENKI1

This is awesome.


----------



## Ground'N'Pound5

toney should've stayed in middleweight :boo01:

he wouldve been atleast decent if he was still a middleweight


----------



## Toxic

Damone said:


> RIP to a lot of guys in the UFC.
> 
> Toney is going to sprawl against top wrestlers and beat the shit out of them standing.


This may be try but he definatly would not be the first boxer to get kicked in the head and not know what hit him. Boxer's have the advantage that they have spent a lifetime perfecting there hands. On the other hand they have the disadvantage in that they naturally want to get into a stance that leaves them wide open to be taken down and secondly have spent that same lifetime totally neglecting the fact that there opponents feet are also weapons. Ray Mercer tried kickboxing twice and did not seem to enjoy getting kicked in the head.


----------



## UrbanBounca

I'm tired of seeing big names signed because of simply that, big names.


----------



## Can.Opener

If Toney got in shape to 185lbs I'd be mildly interested.. 

But come on, hes a fat has been, and Dana is not stupid.
Toney is going to be paired up against wrestlers, gnp and bjj fighters who will completely maul him, and I'll buy the ppv to watch it just like everyone else.


----------



## mtt_c

The business side of UFC will hand Toney 2-3 guys with shittie stand up skills who only use their stand up skills. Then get him a name fighter who chooses to take him to the ground.

The honorable side of UFC would have him matched with a legit contender (multi-world champion is a world-class feat) and he would get owned for the first 2 fights so that he quits the sport.


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

I think he should fight Joe Rogan for the commentator position. Not even sure if Toney could win that.


----------



## swpthleg

This kind of sucks, but I won't deny that there is the potential for awesome.


----------



## mattreis324

mtt_c said:


> The business side of UFC will hand Toney 2-3 guys with shittie stand up skills who only use their stand up skills. Then get him a name fighter who chooses to take him to the ground.
> 
> The honorable side of UFC would have him matched with a legit contender (multi-world champion is a world-class feat) and he would get owned for the first 2 fights so that he quits the sport.


How is this the honorable thing to do? Give him a top guy just because he's a well-known boxer? He's an MMA newbie, they should give him someone at the bottom of the barrel. This isn't UFC 1, we already know how a pure boxer will do against a wrestler or a BJJ guy.


----------



## Life B Ez

He'll get hit once with six ounces on and want nothing more to do with this sport. 

The philly shell doesn't work in MMA


----------



## Guymay

From randy twitter :



> "I hope I'm the first guy they call to fight tony ! "
> 27 minutes ago via HTC Peep


toughts about that fight ? imo if randy wants it he will get it .Will be huge draw .


----------



## Servatose

It disappoints me that so many people are screaming "Publicity stunt." There are a few things I would like to say to that.

First, Dana has been rather consistent in his claim to take MMA seriously and avoid freak shows. He inducted Kimbo Slice through TUF, and didn't simply just throw him against big names to draw fights. And I expect him to do the same with Toney, excluding of course TUF. It amazes me how fickle the MMA fanbase seems to be. As far as James being signed, in and of itself... MMA is an entertainment oriented sport. Of course Dana would be interesting in signing fighters like him and Kimbo, who have a name amongst potential viewers who are looking to be entertained. It makes sense from a business standpoint. I can say, it would disappoint me if Dana matched him against a well-established mid to high tier fighter, but I really don't think he will. He hasn't done that before, and I don't expect him to start now.


----------



## Hammerlock2.0

Interesting. I hope he choses the MMA way, not the "I has teh boxing lulz" way. Otherwise I don't think he stands a chance against anyone with takedowns. Except for the puncher's chance of course.


----------



## Damone

Toxic said:


> This may be try but he definatly would not be the first boxer to get kicked in the head and not know what hit him. Boxer's have the advantage that they have spent a lifetime perfecting there hands. On the other hand they have the disadvantage in that they naturally want to get into a stance that leaves them wide open to be taken down and secondly have spent that same lifetime totally neglecting the fact that there opponents feet are also weapons. Ray Mercer tried kickboxing twice and did not seem to enjoy getting kicked in the head.


The same Ray Mercer who brutally KO'ed a former UFC HW champion?

Hell, he beat Sylvia worse than Fedor did.


----------



## alizio

i dont think James will be a world beater by any stretch of the imagination but i believe the reason Dana did this is because truely.... James Toney is a tough SOB, flat out, he wont crumble and cry like some bitch on PPV. I will bet w/e on that, he wont quit in a fight, he might get KO'd or embarrassed but James is going down swinging. Something Dana and most fans love.

btw this doesnt mean he wont tap.... oh... he will tap if he has to, ASAP.


----------



## Damone

Also, Toney is an awesome smack talker. He is definitely punch drunk, but the guy can smack talk (Smack mumble?).

Kimbo vs Toney would be something fun.


----------



## SideWays222

OZjet said:


> No Fedor, No Mousasi, No Aoki, Goodbye Henderson, but this Jerk off? so clear they are wanting to up PPV no's and appease the casual fans, not the hardcore fan. but it is a business and the casual fan base is what makes or breaks you


Dont blame the UFC for that. M1 is more to blame for Fedor and Mousasi and Aoki im not really sure... probably wants to stick to fighting where the refs help him out. Henderson was also just basic contract negotiations that didnt work out.


----------



## alizio

*UFC Insists Toney signing isnt a "freak show"*

UFC insists Toney signing isn’t ‘freak show’

By Kevin Iole, Yahoo! Sports 
4 hours, 31 minutes ago

Buzz up! 58 PrintFollow Kevin Iole on Twitter at @KevinI


The Ultimate Fighting Championship didn’t become a billion-dollar enterprise by having its executives take crazy risks. The company was built methodically, with the larger goal always in mind.

But on Wednesday, the bus swerved sharply in a different direction when UFC president Dana White confirmed that the company had signed boxer James Toney to a multi-fight contract.

More From Kevin IoleTorres goes back to basics Mar 3, 2010 Mailbag: Chuck's mystery video Mar 2, 2010 ADVERTISEMENT


Veteran boxer James Toney signed a multi-fight contract with the Ultimate Fighting Championship.

(Marc Serota/Getty Images)
White conceded he’s certain of very little about his plans for Toney other than that the future boxing Hall of Famer will compete in the UFC as a light heavyweight. Toney, being the contrarian he is, said he wants to fight as a heavyweight.

As for when Toney will fight, the level of opposition he will face and other pertinent details, White admits he hasn’t mapped it out yet.

“We’ll figure something out,” White said. “I’m not really sure. Here’s the thing with James: We were sitting around finishing the deal and talking and he told me that he’d been talking to Strikeforce. He said they were talking to him about a fight with Herschel Walker. James said to me, ‘Do you know what I’d do to that [expletive]?’ He looked at me and said, ‘You know, I have a lot of pride and I’d never do anything to embarrass myself. I’m a fighter. I want to fight. And don’t ever underestimate me.’ ”

White, who remains a diehard boxing fan, clearly is infatuated with Toney, who is one of the greatest pure boxers who ever lived and among the five finest boxers of his era.

But Toney is 41, has twice tested positive for steroids and in recent years he’s often had a belly that has hung over his waist. And though the UFC has come a long way in convincing the masses that it’s a world-class sport and not some kind of a carnival sideshow, it’s hard to see much of an upside in this signing.

If Toney gets blown out in his UFC debut, his opponent won’t get much credit. Most of the talk will be that the opponent beat up an aged, over-the-hill boxer.

On the other hand, if Toney were to win, it would cause plenty to question the quality of fighters in the UFC.

There doesn’t seem to be an upside for the UFC unless Toney shows up in peak shape and puts on several quality fights in a row.

Toney insisted his weight would not be an issue and said he has no concern about adjusting to MMA.

“Don’t make wise cracks about my weight, because I’ve been working hard and the next time you see me, you’ll be shocked,” said Toney, who said he would probably box sometime in the next six weeks to get the rust off. “Dana put his foot in his mouth and said UFC guys are better fighters than boxers. We’ll see. Everyone who knows anything about fighting knows I’m the purest fighter in the game. There ain’t no secrets.

“I’ve been fighting a long time. I was born fighting. I know what I’m doing. Boxing is still my main focus, but them guys are a bunch of (expletives) and they don’t want to fight. So I called Dana after he put his foot in his mouth and I’m going to prove he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.”

Dan Goossen, Toney’s long-time friend and promoter, was disappointed to learn the news. The contract with the UFC allows Toney to continue to box and Goossen said he had conversations with Toney earlier this week about a boxing match next month.

Toney has been doing some MMA training, Goossen said. While he’s no MMA expert, Goossen understands Toney will be at a disadvantage fighting against men who have been training in the sport for many years.


UFC president Dana White insisted that signing boxer James Toney was legit: "What we won't do is make a freak show out of it."

(AP File Photo)
“Let’s face it: There are some bad – meaning good – fighters in MMA, no ifs, ands or buts about it,” Goossen said. “There are a lot of wrestlers who are fighters now and James is not a wrestler. He’s a standup fighter; he’s a boxer. His skills are standing up. There’s not an MMA fighter in the world who could fight James on his court, in the ring, and be able to stay with him.

“But this is like something I said to Pete Rose the other day: As great a hitter as Pete was, and he’s one of the greatest who ever lived, do you think he would be the all-time hit king in cricket? It’s still hitting a ball with a stick, but they’re completely different sports.

“Boxing and MMA are fighting sports,” Goossen said. “They’re related, but they’re different sports. You need different skills in each of them. As great as James is, he’s not going to be as good of a wrestler as the guys he faces. He can’t cram into a six-, eight-, 12-week training camp what they’ve been doing all their lives. He’s definitely going to be at a disadvantage and I don’t want to see him being used.”

White insists he didn’t sign Toney to be a freak show and said he’ll avoid gimmick fights like Toney against Walker, the 1982 Heisman Trophy winner, or Toney against former baseball MVP Jose Canseco.

White is not sure against who or when, but he said Toney will be just another UFC fighter when he debuts. Toney said he isn’t sure when he’ll debut, but said he thought June or July would be a fair guess. And he said he expects to be the main event.

“I’m a main event fighter and I’ve been a main event fighter since before a lot of these punk-(expletive) fighters were out of the crib,” Toney said. “Don’t give me that (expletive) about fighting on the undercard. People want to see James Toney and I’m going to give them what they want.”

White gave former NCAA Division I wrestling champion and ex-WWE superstar Brock Lesnar one of the stiffest challenges possible when he was matched against former heavyweight champion Frank Mir in his UFC debut in 2008.

If the UFC were to pull a similar move with Toney, he might be paired against someone like former light heavyweight champion Forrest Griffin.

Toney, though, is such an X-factor that it’s difficult to match him evenly. His boxing skills are first-rate and he’ll probably have the best chin in the UFC the minute he walks into the cage for the first time.

But even if he’s paired with a striker, how will he defend against kicks? If he’s paired with a grappler, like Lesnar was, will he be able to escape without having his arm broken?

There are a lot of hard decisions White is going to have to make with this signing.

“We threw the kitchen sink at Brock when he came in,” White said. “Are we going to do that same thing with James? I don’t know. To be 100 percent honest with you, all [expletive] aside, I haven’t thought it out.

“I like James Toney. He’s one of the greatest boxers ever. I have tremendous respect for him. He said he wanted to fight in the UFC and I was interested. Now he’s here and I have to figure out what to do with him. What we won’t do is make a freak show out of it. I’d be the first to scream if someone else did that, so I’m not going to do it.”

Toney is still a big enough name in boxing that he’s been mentioned as a possible opponent for World Boxing Council heavyweight champion Vitali Klitschko. Goossen insists that with Toney’s ability to sell a fight, it could set a European record for ticket sales, if it occurs.

For the first time, the UFC will have to manage the schedule of one of its fighters with someone else, since Toney’s contract allows him to box.

There are a lot of variables that are going to make this a difficult proposition. White, though, is undeterred.

“Hey, I don’t want this to be seen as a joke, and it’s not like Herschel Walker or Canseco or any of those guys,” White said. “James Toney is a fighter. The worst thing anyone can ever say to me is that they were watching one of my fights and they changed the channel. That’s why I’ll never put [expletive] fights on.

“James is an interesting case. We know how much talent he has as a boxer and he insists he’ll surprise people by how much MMA he knows. I’ve still got some thinking to do. But if we promote him and he does well and that raises his profile and he gets a Klitschko fight and makes a lot of money for himself and Goossen, I’d be cool with that. But James came to me and he literally chased me around the country to do it, so I’m giving him the chance. We’ll get it figured out one way or another.”

This report was updated at 10:25 p.m. ET on March 3.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=ki-toney030310&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

interesting that it seems his contract will allow him to box aswell??? no doubt the UFC was flexible with Fedor on ***** then....


----------



## michelangelo

Meh, sixth sense tells me James Toney's run in the UFC will be short lived.


----------



## Davisty69

It is going to make a ton of money... that is all I can say.


----------



## alizio

james has some of the funniest lines in the UFC already. Chael and Mir better step up their trash talk games or they are gonna be surpassed quick!!

“Don’t make wise cracks about my weight, because I’ve been working hard and the next time you see me, you’ll be shocked,” said Toney, who said he would probably box sometime in the next six weeks to get the rust off. “Dana put his foot in his mouth and said UFC guys are better fighters than boxers. We’ll see. Everyone who knows anything about fighting knows I’m the purest fighter in the game. There ain’t no secrets"

“I’m a main event fighter and I’ve been a main event fighter since before a lot of these punk-(expletive) fighters were out of the crib,” Toney said. “Don’t give me that (expletive) about fighting on the undercard. People want to see James Toney and I’m going to give them what they want.”


----------



## michelangelo

I'll say this, it'd be a beautiful thing if James Toney signalled the era of truly great boxers entering the MMA game and cage. I know Hatton expressed some interest in MMA, and there was Ray Mercer's quick dispatching of a disspirited and bloated Tim Sylvia. 

Imagine Manny Pacquaio steppping into the Octagon against BJ. BJ's probably a bit too big for him, but still...


----------



## 6toes

Man alizio, you're always breaking the news nowadays :thumb02:

Sounds legit, I'm curious as well as to how the UFC will go about this. Pretty surprised to hear they are letting him still box. It made sense when the offered to let Fedor compete in combat ***** considering he's widely regarded as the p4p best in MMA, whereas Toney hasn't even competed yet. Hopefully this signals the beginning of less strict regulations on fighter's contracts.


----------



## Servatose

This just seems like some sort of immature attempt at a troll, so I'll just discount it -- since it has no relevance to the points in my post.


----------



## Atilak

I will be very suprised if Toney will have any success in UFC..

Not impossible  I think he has that mentality that he wants show that he will win his fight with boxing. If he trully want to compete he must start to work on wrestling and bjj. His biggest issue right now seems to be physique.

Seriously I think he is no Couture. In his age is crazy hard to maintain top lvl condition and even harder to get in shape when you lost it.

If I was Dana I will take it as a oportunity to advertise MMA. Why feed him fight that he can won? Toney is runing his mouth and saying that he could rule this sport.. Give him some really good competition and let him suffer..

Show everyone that one dimensional fighter is not able to compete in MMA. Simple as that.


----------



## Machida Karate

Wow so they finally signed the punching bag...

Well this should be interesting! I wouldn't mind a Cotoure beat down, i would rather see that then a Keith KO....

I remember Keith talking about fighting Toney a little while ago.... That better not happen...

Although i wouldn't mind seeing Toney get a knock out, it would be funny to see him smack talk just to get raped after lol...

I say is Toney can land a clean shot with these new small ass gloves, then i see him able to finish a guy off quick.

Should be interesting to see who his first fight is!


----------



## mattreis324

If Dana is trying to prove that high-level boxers can't compete in MMA, then matching up Toney with Couture would be pretty smart. The likely outcome is Randy getting the takedown and getting the TKO or RNC. Even if Randy loses, Dana can just spin it as Toney beating an older fighter who is naturally a LHW.

I'd still like to see Dana give Toney some lower level guys first, just to see how Toney matches up with them. Somebody like Mostapha al-Turk or James McSweeney.


----------



## Soojooko

I dunno... There could be some serious benefits to MMA if this is the beginning of a trend. Remember, the UFC is currently made up of fighters who specialized in a discipline before taking on other skills. The 3 main arts are BJJ, Kickboxing and Wrestling. If we could add Boxing to that list... man, I personally think that would absolutely rock.

The whole think stinks of win for the UFC. Toney loses? UFC fighters rock. Toney wins? Other boxers become interested.

We can speculate all we want as to how boxers suck and have no idea how to defend legs, subs, takedowns etc. But just focusing on these negatives without considering the pluses is outright naive. Yes, a quality boxer is open to this kind of damage. BUT, Boxers are *designed* to spot and react to the slightest of openings. The tinyest hole. I dont care how much you might love MMA fighters... compared to quality pure boxers they are sloppy as Jenna Jameson after a hard days work.

All the other disciplines play into a boxers favour as much as against him. A grappler ALWAYS has to expose himself to a degree to get their opponent down. And there's no point considering how a kickboxer might ruin Toneys legs without also considering how an opponents kick might create an opening if your footwork is solid.

Toney will most likely lose a few fights. But come on! Some balance please. Toney has been doing nothing but box for 30 years. As much as this is a disadvantage in MMA, surely you can all accept that instinctively his hands are head over heals above the rest. One mistake standing against Toney will be capitalized on far more ruthlessly.


----------



## Servatose

It appears you're incapable of actually holding debate without resorting to blatant methods of trolling. Out of disinterest in pursuing any more conversation with you, due to your open hostility, I'll concede to your points.


----------



## HexRei

Soojooko said:


> I dunno... There could be some serious benefits to MMA if this is the beginning of a trend. Remember, the UFC is currently made up of fighters who specialized in a discipline before taking on other skills. The 3 main arts are BJJ, Kickboxing and Wrestling. If we could add Boxing to that list... man, I personally think that would absolutely rock.
> 
> The whole think stinks of win for the UFC. Toney loses? UFC fighters rock. Toney wins? Other boxers become interested.
> 
> We can speculate all we want as to how boxers suck and have no idea how to defend legs, subs, takedowns etc. But just focusing on these negatives without considering the pluses is outright naive. Yes, a quality boxer is open to this kind of damage. BUT, Boxers are *designed* to spot and react to the slightest of openings. The tinyest hole. I dont care how much you might love MMA fighters... compared to quality pure boxers they are sloppy as Jenna Jameson after a hard days work.
> 
> All the other disciplines play into a boxers favour as much as against him. A grappler ALWAYS has to expose himself to a degree to get their opponent down. And there's no point considering how a kickboxer might ruin Toneys legs without also considering how an opponents kick might create an opening if your footwork is solid.
> 
> Toney will most likely lose a few fights. But come on! Some balance please. Toney has been doing nothing but box for 30 years. As much as this is a disadvantage in MMA, surely you can all accept that instinctively his hands are head over heals above the rest. One mistake standing against Toney will be capitalized on far more ruthlessly.


There have been boxers in MMA, and the UFC, all along. The problem is that boxing is just not very well-prepared to handle anything related to grappling, whereas a pure grappler often has a better chance to control where the action takes place. It's not like Toney is going to bring anything new to the table. Perhaps he might inspire more boxers to come to MMA but IMHO a significant portion of the pool of athletes that might have entered boxing have already been diverted to MMA or grappling disciplines over the recent years.


----------



## Soojooko

HexRei said:


> There have been boxers in MMA, and the UFC, all along. The problem is that boxing is just not very well-prepared to handle anything related to grappling, whereas a pure grappler often has a better chance to control where the action takes place. *It's not like Toney is going to bring anything new to the table*. Perhaps he might inspire more boxers to come to MMA but IMHO the pool of athletes that might have entered boxing have already been diverted to MMA or grappling disclipnes over the recent years.


I object in huge quantities at the bolded bit.

Are you suggesting Boxers of Toneys calibre and *current* competitiveness are common place in the UFC? lol


----------



## HexRei

No, I'm saying even the best boxer is going to have serious problems with someone who can employ takedowns, submissions, kicks, knees, elbows just to name a few. Toney may well be the best boxer to grace the octagon but, as I said earlier, unless the UFC feeds him guaranteed stand up fighters who will give Toney a real chance to outbox them, he is going to have a huge problem. He is not really a 1-punch KO artist, and a reasonably capable grappler should be able to Jimmerson him pretty quickly, unless he's been secretly working his sprawl or back game for the last five years.


----------



## Soojooko

HexRei said:


> No, I'm saying even the best boxer is going to have serious problems with someone who can employ takedowns, submissions, kicks, knees, elbows just to name a few. Toney may well be the best boxer to grace the octagon but, as I said earlier, unless the UFC feeds him guaranteed stand up fighters who will give Toney a real chance to outbox them, he is going to have a huge problem. He is not really a 1-punch KO artist, and a reasonably capable grappler should be able to Jimmerson him pretty quickly, unless he's been secretly working his sprawl or back game for the last five years.


I hear you and you are probably right. Time will tell either way as they've signed the mouthy bastard. Let the experiment commence! I for one am keen to see what happens. Whatever it is, I'm 100% sure it'll entertain me!


----------



## Cheef_Reef

its funny you all are expecting and wanting him to fail in the ufc. first of all, anyone who says "there are already boxers in the ufc" is absolutely retarded. name one former world champion boxer that currently fights or fought for the UFC in any weight class. boxing trains defense just as much as offense, boxers are quick on their toes and elusive, james toney is no exception despite his size. anyone thinking hes too old or out of shape will be in for a rude awakening when he steps into the octagon. yes he has to train in other disciplines too or he wont succeed, but anyone that thinks a boxer has any less chance of success than a kickboxer in the ufc is purely hating. its a cool trend, I know.. but it makes you look like unintelligent douchebags. now go negative rep me, thats another cool e-trend. and as sojoo said, regardless of how he performs, its a win win situation for the ufc.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Blah..

MMA is such a high-performance multi level competition today, that it is absolutely impossible for a one dimensional fighter to succeed. This sport has involved so much in the last years, that we don't need a freak show like Toney anymore. He was a great boxer 20 years ago yes.. 

It's the same when a long jumper all over sudden tries to compete in the decathlon of the Olympics. It's just not possible and MMA is by far the most demanding Decathlon out there.

This sport is great, everybody who wants a freak show like Toney or Kimbo doesn't Love the sport in my eyes..sorry! :thumbsdown:

It's a slap in the face for guys like Anderson, Fitch, Lyoto and so on.. don't ruin the sport with guys like that! Dana should care more about the picture of the sport, not another millions in his wallet..


----------



## Atilak

Cheef_Reef said:


> its funny you all are expecting and wanting him to fail in the ufc. first of all, anyone who says "there are already boxers in the ufc" is absolutely retarded. name one former world champion boxer that currently fights or fought for the UFC in any weight class. boxing trains defense just as much as offense, boxers are quick on their toes and elusive, james toney is no exception despite his size. anyone thinking hes too old or out of shape will be in for a rude awakening when he steps into the octagon. yes he has to train in other disciplines too or he wont succeed, but anyone that thinks a boxer has any less chance of success than a kickboxer in the ufc is purely hating. its a cool trend, I know.. but it makes you look like unintelligent douchebags. now go negative rep me, thats another cool e-trend. and as sojoo said, regardless of how he performs, its a win win situation for the ufc.


Despite is seems rude in your eyes I will be very suprised If TONEY will have any success..

He is not at top of his game anymore and he want to compete in MMA? Ridiculous in my eyes..

When top boxer (about 30years old) will come in MMA after few years training in other disciplines and use his great boxing skill as a tool I would say he could be helluva fighter. But its not that case, is it?

No one argue that boxing is great part of MMA. But its just part of it and thats what I love about this game. You need to use striking MA for standup but you need to rework it because of takedowns.


----------



## Foose

I really don't know what to think about this. Toney is a great boxer, no doubt about it. BUT, everybody knows that. Every opponent he faces, if they're smart, will immediately blast his thighs with kicks and then shoot. Simple solution to great hands. This quote by Goosen says it all:

“Boxing and MMA are fighting sports,” Goossen said. “They’re related, but they’re different sports. You need different skills in each of them. As great as James is, he’s not going to be as good of a wrestler as the guys he faces. He can’t cram into a six-, eight-, 12-week training camp what they’ve been doing all their lives. He’s definitely going to be at a disadvantage and I don’t want to see him being used.”

There is no way he can learn what he needs to learn in one training camp. I don't care how good a boxer he is . . . if he lets anyone with half decent skills grab him and take him down . . . it's over. I hope he proves me wrong.


----------



## KillerShark1985

can see what a lot of you guys are saying about him been well past his prime which does make it a bit of an irrelevant signing, but most guys in the UFC come from one fighting discipline or another, if it be Muay Thai, Wrestling, BJJ, Judo or whatever, then they get the relevant training to apart to the rules of MMA.

All be it now we are starting to see more and more pure MMA Artists coming trough as the sport is developing into its one discipline, and for the record its these, GSP, Veleasquez, BJ Penn style of fighters that I like to see the most.

But that does not mean to say if a World Class Boxer comes into the sport then he wont be successful, I'm not saying I think Toney will be a good example but thats only because he is past his prime, I think a World Class Boxer who was willing to develop his style to adjust to the MMA rules from a boxing ground base could be very successful as long as they dont just come into the octagon to box, and you would except anyone now entering the ring to have other skill.

So my point is just because someone has been around the Boxing circuit does not mean they don't have the mixed skills required to succeed in MMA, it just means we have never seen it before because they have been confined to the rules of Boxing, For that reason I reserve judgement on any Pro Boxer that may enter the Octagon until we have seen them fight in an MMA bout.


----------



## KillerShark1985

Will have to see who he is fighting before we can judge really, JDS would be my pick if I had a vote.


----------



## Machida Karate

BobbyCooper said:


> Blah..
> 
> MMA is such a high-performance multi level competition today, that it is absolutely impossible for a one dimensional fighter to succeed. This sport has involved so much in the last years, that we don't need a freak show like Toney anymore. He was a great boxer 20 years ago yes..
> 
> It's the same when a long jumper all over sudden tries to compete in the decathlon of the Olympics. It's just not possible and MMA is by far the most demanding Decathlon out there.
> 
> This sport is great, everybody who wants a freak show like Toney or Kimbo doesn't Love the sport in my eyes..sorry! :thumbsdown:
> 
> It's a slap in the face for guys like Anderson, Fitch, Lyoto and so on.. don't ruin the sport with guys like that! Dana should care more about the picture of the sport, not another millions in his wallet..



I agree totally that a one dimensional stands ZERO chance now a days, it seems like even the worst ground game in UFC has like a purple belt lol.

But saying if you want to see Toney get killed then u don't love the sport?

What about when Cro Cop fought Bob Sapp, or when Fedor fought like Hung man Choi or all the other freaks he has beaten....

I'm not by any means saying that Freak show fights help in any way, but Toney is a legit fighter unlike Choi's Kick boxing record against Japs that are like more then twice as small....

Toney is a true pro at ONE aspect and i wouldn't say this is a slap in the face, as much as its a wake up call for the world about how a World Champion Boxer gets schooled at fighting


----------



## Machida Karate

JDS would eat him alive, and who knows maybe Toney is this confident because he has been training his Sprawls and ground game to get back to his feet....

But all he hast to do is get picked against a guy even similar to a ground game like Roy Nelson and were going to see a big man get put in a crucifix held down and take twenty shots to the face....

He is probably going to get full mounted to a figure 4 body lock to a crucifix to a triangle for the Sub lol


----------



## Soojooko

BobbyCooper said:


> Blah..
> 
> MMA is such a high-performance multi level competition today, that it is absolutely impossible for a one dimensional fighter to succeed. This sport has involved so much in the last years, that we don't need a freak show like Toney anymore. He was a great boxer 20 years ago yes..
> 
> It's the same when a long jumper all over sudden tries to compete in the decathlon of the Olympics. It's just not possible and MMA is by far the most demanding Decathlon out there.
> 
> This sport is great, everybody who wants a freak show like Toney or Kimbo doesn't Love the sport in my eyes..sorry! :thumbsdown:
> 
> It's a slap in the face for guys like Anderson, Fitch, Lyoto and so on.. don't ruin the sport with guys like that! Dana should care more about the picture of the sport, not another millions in his wallet..


How can you put Kimbo and Toney in the same category? A professional record of 72-6-3 vs a chump who beat up lots of out of shape gangster wannabes?

Toney is a fighter. I don't consider him fighting in the UFC a freak show at all. We haven't even seen him fight yet.


----------



## TheGrizzlyBear

I think this is good for MMA...well his contract is atleast, I think this could be helpful in getting Dana and the UFC to agree to some Co-Promotions, which could get Fedor in the UFC. That and maybe they end up working out a deal with Dream or WVR to start building some of the more talented japanese fighters in the US.


----------



## Danm2501

BobbyCooper said:


> Blah..
> 
> MMA is such a high-performance multi level competition today, that it is absolutely impossible for a one dimensional fighter to succeed. This sport has involved so much in the last years, that we don't need a freak show like Toney anymore. He was a great boxer 20 years ago yes..
> 
> It's the same when a long jumper all over sudden tries to compete in the decathlon of the Olympics. It's just not possible and MMA is by far the most demanding Decathlon out there.
> 
> This sport is great, everybody who wants a freak show like Toney or Kimbo doesn't Love the sport in my eyes..sorry! :thumbsdown:
> 
> It's a slap in the face for guys like Anderson, Fitch, Lyoto and so on.. don't ruin the sport with guys like that! Dana should care more about the picture of the sport, not another millions in his wallet..


I actually thought it was a freak-show when I first heard the news last night, but having thought about it, it really isn't. Sure Toney's past his prime at 41 years of age, but he's still winning professional boxing bouts, and is a serious fighter. It's not like Herschel Walker coming in at 50 years old with no professional fighting experience and from a football background. Toney is a fighter through and through, and has some serious boxing credentials. Obviously it'd be better if Toney had some MMA experience/fights under his belt, but he's a PPV draw and a proper fighter. Toney vs Kimbo would not be a freak show fight anywhere near the same level as a Walker vs Canseco fight. I'm looking forward to seeing how Toney goes in the UFC, certainly no different than someone coming in with a pure Kickboxing background like Pat Barry.


----------



## Danm2501

They did actually agree to let Fedor fight in ***** as part of their last contract negotiations, the UFC's problem was with M-1 trying to Co-Promote, something the UFC isn't willing to do. 

I agree with the UFC too, this isn't a freak show signing. James Toney might not have MMA experience, but he's a fighter with a serious Boxing background and some serious Boxing credentials. This signing will only be good for the UFC. I'm looking forward to seeing him fight.


----------



## Machida Karate

TheGrizzlyBear said:


> I think this is good for MMA...well his contract is at least, I think this could be helpful in getting Dana and the UFC to agree to some Co-Promotions, which could get Fedor in the UFC. That and maybe they end up working out a deal with Dream or WVR to start building some of the more talented Japanese fighters in the US.



To my knowledge i believe they offered Fedor an even juicier contract with permission to fight in ***** and other sports, and a nice 30 million dollar tab to go with it....

Hence why Hendo packed his bags....

But i think it will do good for MMA in a way that it will get people talking about how MMA fighters are the worlds most Complete style of fighting that no other style can compete....

And thats because its ALL Styles obviously lol....

Its hard for me to watch Boxing a little more now a days, because about 7 to 8 years ago i saw boxers and the best fighters on the planet.... And that who i was watching can beat the crap out of ANYONE...

Not so the case anymore

Like for example all those movies that would bring in a "Boxer" or a "Karate Master" to take out some king pin or whatever.

Now a days u see nothing but MMA fighters in movies coming to save the day....

And this will only enhance the thought in peoples minds that even Boxing's formal World Champions cant hang with even the average MMA fighter, because a TRUE MMA artist has NO weaknesses like the ground game of Karate and Boxing or the stand up of a wrestler/BJJ artist


----------



## LV 2 H8 U

After all of the ridiculous things Toney has said I just want to see someone go in, take him to the mat and show him all about MMA. Its not a just boxing match...

I want to see him humbled, possibly humiliated. Then I may root for him to learn and progress as an MMA fighter.


----------



## Soojooko

*Couture wants to be first to face new UFC fighter Toney*

http://www.fightersonlymagazine.co.uk/news/viewarticle.php?id=4057&offset=0



> Randy Couture would like to be the first fighter to face new UFC signee James Toney. The signing of former heavyweight boxing champion Toney was confirmed by the UFC late yesterday, and he will compete at light-heavyweight.
> 
> The former heavyweight and light-heavyweight champion used his Twitter account to express - in three separate posts - how much he wanted to fight Toney when the boxer makes his UFC debut. “I hope they set me up with Toney,” was the first, closely followed by “Hope to fight Toney soon.”
> 
> Responding to a fan’s enquiry some time afterwards, Couture again stated “I hope I'm the first guy they call to fight Toney!”
> 
> Toney’s signing has met with mixed reactions from fans. Some are interested to see what he will be like with 4oz gloves on his hands, given the punching power he demonstrated throughout his boxing career. But others have questioned the signing of a 41-year-old who is past his prime in his chosen sport, accusing the UFC of pandering to the ‘freak show’ audience.
> 
> Either way, the signing is probably going to be a big win for the UFC. Toney is well known to boxing fans and many will tune in to watch him fight. If he wins one or two, their interest will be maintained and those wins will almost certainly have come by way of thunderous knockouts.
> 
> But if and when Toney loses in the Octagon, the UFC can proudly state that even a (former) top professional boxer cannot compete in top-level mixed martial arts. Superseding boxing as the world’s most popular combat sport is a goal close the heart of the UFC top brass and Toney losing in their cage only adds further weight to their claim on the top spot.


Bloomin' heck! The Toney news has sparked a bit of a buzz.

A great first fight. Lets get straight to the meat and bones of the matter and see what Toney can do ( if anything ) instead of fecking around with Kimbo.


----------



## Soojooko

LV 2 H8 U said:


> After all of the ridiculous things Toney has said I just want to see someone go in, take him to the mat and show him all about MMA. Its not a just boxing match...
> 
> I want to see him humbled, possibly humiliated. Then I may root for him to learn and progress as an MMA fighter.


Got to admit. That would be rather enjoyable.

Toney is either going to get humiliated or surprise us all. From this particular fans perspective: it's WIN all the way, baby!


----------



## Machida Karate

Danm2501 said:


> I actually thought it was a freak-show when I first heard the news last night, but having thought about it, it really isn't. Sure Toney's past his prime at 41 years of age, but he's still winning professional boxing bouts, and is a serious fighter. It's not like Herschel Walker coming in at 50 years old with no professional fighting experience and from a football background. Toney is a fighter through and through, and has some serious boxing credentials. Obviously it'd be better if Toney had some MMA experience/fights under his belt, but he's a PPV draw and a proper fighter. Toney vs Kimbo would not be a freak show fight anywhere near the same level as a Walker vs Canseco fight. I'm looking forward to seeing how Toney goes in the UFC, certainly no different than someone coming in with a pure Kickboxing background like Pat Barry.


I agree and he still brings a certain lvl of respect in boxing that is undeniable, and if he has been training his sprawls and ground game to get back to his feet, he has a slight chance....

The main thing that annoys me is.... WHY UFC??? There are a lot of other MMA organizations that he can compete in, and smash guys in like Cage Rage, or even in SF.

I happy to see he went from just wanting 1 fight to a multi fight contract, that shows he is a little serious...

All i know is that i F'ing LOVE MMA and i still want to see Toney get rapped lol.

He is coming in saying Dana will eat his own foot, and he is coming to prove Boxing has better fighters....

Thats got me interested.... Now PLEASE just dont give him Keith IM BEGGING U!

Ps... I only say that because i remember Keith BEFORE he lost to Bader that he would take Toney..... Once again PLEASE GOD NO!


----------



## Toroian

Randy has got one hell of weak chin! KO in 10secs by tony please dont do it randy for the name of the sport!


----------



## nima24

Forget Couture, TUF 10 James Mcsweeney said on his twitter that he wants to be his first opponent lol


----------



## LV 2 H8 U

Machida Karate said:


> ...if he has been training his sprawls and ground game to get back to his feet, he has a slight chance....
> 
> All i know is that i F'ing LOVE MMA and i still want to see Toney get rapped lol.
> 
> He is coming in saying Dana will eat his own foot, and he is coming to prove Boxing has better fighters....


His only chance is to catch his opponent with a good flush punch and swarm him. He cant possibly learn TD def or any ground game to a proficient degree at this point in his career. It takes years to learn how to wrestle good let alone to be at the level of these guys in the UFC.

If they give him a can that stands up with him I will be very disappointed. IMO him and all the rest of these one dimensional boxers need to see thats a more complex fight than just striking with the hands.


----------



## Soojooko

Toroian said:


> Randy has got one hell of weak chin! KO in 10secs by tony please dont do it randy for the name of the sport!


Yep. Could well be. Or we could see Toney up against the cage eating elbows to his fat little smug face. Either will do me just fine.


----------



## Danm2501

nima24 said:


> Forget Couture, TUF 10 James Mcsweeney said on his twitter that he wants to be his first opponent lol


He's having a laugh. He would get his arse handed to him on a plate by Toney. McSweeney has zero ground game, and although he's got some nice kicks, they're not good enough to allow him to dominate someone like Toney on the feet. I don't really like McSweeney though, so the UFC can feed him to Toney if they like. 

Couture vs Toney would be interesting though. Randy would have to close the distance immediately and try and take Toney down. If he tries to exchange with him on the feet he's going to sleep, but if Toney doesn't let loose early, he's going to get taken-down and dominated on the ground. Be a good fight.


----------



## DJ Syko

am pretty shocked that he is still allowed to Box, i never thought in a million years Dana would allow something like that, except in a one fight deal or something, when a boxer has been talking smack about MMA i.e. Floyd Mayweather.


----------



## mmarash

Danm2501 said:


> He's having a laugh. He would get his arse handed to him on a plate by Toney. McSweeney has zero ground game, and although he's got some nice kicks, they're not good enough to allow him to dominate someone like Toney on the feet. I don't really like McSweeney though, so the UFC can feed him to Toney if they like.
> 
> Couture vs Toney would be interesting though. Randy would have to close the distance immediately and try and take Toney down. If he tries to exchange with him on the feet he's going to sleep, but if Toney doesn't let loose early, he's going to get taken-down and dominated on the ground. Be a good fight.


Imo, they should just throw him in with somebody like Brock Lesnar/Shane Carwin, just finish Toney and show everybody that you can't just jump into this sport being one dimensional.


----------



## MILFHunter947

Danm2501 said:


> He's having a laugh. He would get his arse handed to him on a plate by Toney. *McSweeney has zero ground game*, and although he's got some nice kicks, they're not good enough to allow him to dominate someone like Toney on the feet. I don't really like McSweeney though, so the UFC can feed him to Toney if they like.
> 
> Couture vs Toney would be interesting though. Randy would have to close the distance immediately and try and take Toney down. If he tries to exchange with him on the feet he's going to sleep, but if Toney doesn't let loose early, he's going to get taken-down and dominated on the ground. Be a good fight.



Lol why would toney take it to the ground


----------



## Chileandude

mmarash said:


> Imo, they should just throw him in with somebody like Brock Lesnar/Shane Carwin, just finish Toney and show everybody that you can't just jump into this sport being one dimensional.


LoL, Lesnar himself entered being a quite one dimensional wrestler and did quite well.


----------



## Danm2501

MILFHunter947 said:


> Lol why would toney take it to the ground


He wouldn't, but for most people in the UFC, the best chance of beating James Toney will be on the ground, and McSweeney's very poor on the ground, meaning he'd have to stand with Toney. This would subsequently result in him getting owned, as he's not even great in that area. He's been TKO'd by Mustapha Al-Turk, Neil Grove and Roy Nelson. He has no chance against James Toney.


----------



## Emericanaddict

Wow not much sense being used in this thread is there. Randy would dominate Toney in a way youve never seen Randy dominate someone before. Toney has litteraly no idea how to stop the clinch since most boxers embrace it to take a rest. Toney would just allow Randy to slide right into the clinch, Randy drops for an immediate double leg and it would be stopped in the first round. Ill gaurentee this aswell. 

Toney is getting old and is slowing down. Randy is still quick for his age and one of the best wrestlers to compete in MMA. Taking down a guy who litterally has no idea what a sprawl is would be a cake walk for Randy. The guy isn't a boxer but he more then well versed enough to slip the first 2-3 punches Toney comes out of the gate with in order to get into the clinch. And at that point the fight is over. If Randy get his arms on Toney the fight will be over there and then. 

Randy knows this and he's ready to take advantage of this pig while is still fresh.


----------



## swedish_fighter

I have a feeling Dana will feed him a can.. :confused02:

But I would love to see him against Randy!:thumbsup: If he wins, respect to Toney.


----------



## Inkdot

This is great, I welcome more boxers to start doing MMA, perhaps would prefer some younger ones who could really develop the lacking areas abit more before their career is over. But we all know boxers will have sick standup ability. Just add some TDD and he has the ability to beat some guys.


----------



## Ansem

If Randy fights Toney it could go either way, but if Randy pulls it off hes got my respect for keeping mma's respect, i'm hoping Toney doesn't win a single fight in the UFC, you can't just go from boxing and past your prime and end up in the worlds greatest fighting organization it doesn't make sense I hope Toney gets ktfo or choked every time he steps in with an Ultimate Fighter.


----------



## nathan.keith

Just because he's a boxer doesn't mean he's not a mixed martial artist. Cotoure boxed in the Army. I think his boxing skills could be a nice addition to UFC if he can learn a little ground defence...... or he's a one deminsional boxer who was only signed with the UFC to get choked out time after time. Has anyone heard about how long he's been training or who he's training with?


----------



## TraMaI

Can't wait for someone to Muay Thai clinch him so he's like "Where's the seperation?" and then gets KTFO'd by a huge knee. "All he wanted to do wuz hug me man, he didn't wanna fight James Toney," ahhh I can see it now. Sure this guy will probably beat people like Kimbo and of cource he'll still probably have some big power but I can't see him beating Cain, Nog, JDS, Mir or Lesnar any time soon. Hell, I'm willing to bet Antoni Hardonk destroys him, too. 

He is fighting at HW right?


----------



## HitOrGetHit

I think that as long as Randy wrestles, he will dominate Toney. Even if Toney trained somewhat, he has definitely been focusing on his boxing career. That being said, I don't think he would have been able to dedicate enough time to any other discipline other than boxing.


----------



## Soojooko

TraMaI said:


> Can't wait for someone to Muay Thai clinch him so he's like "Where's the seperation?" and then gets KTFO'd by a huge knee. "All he wanted to do wuz hug me man, he didn't wanna fight James Toney," ahhh I can see it now. Sure this guy will probably beat people like Kimbo and of cource he'll still probably have some big power but I can't see him beating Cain, Nog, JDS, Mir or Lesnar any time soon. Hell, I'm willing to bet Antoni Hardonk destroys him, too.
> 
> He is fighting at HW right?


LHW I think.


----------



## BadTrip

OZjet said:


> No Fedor, No Mousasi, No Aoki, Goodbye Henderson, but this Jerk off? so clear they are wanting to up PPV no's and appease the casual fans, not the hardcore fan. but it is a business and the casual fan base is what makes or breaks you


WORD!! Good post.


----------



## LV 2 H8 U

The thing for me is that I respect what he has accomplished in boxing, but he has zero respect for MMA and I really don't think he fully understands how difficult it is comparatively. So I just want him to get a thumping or get tapped.Then I want to hear him say that it isnt as easy as he thought it was. 

Someone mark my words...James Toney will never be a title contender in MMA let alone the Champ.


----------



## ipbod

So what if he's a boxer? 

Dana wouldn't let a 41 year old kick boxer into the UFC with no fights, or 41 year old wrestler with absolutely no fights.

Of course it's a freak show. He has no fights yet will make the main card of a UFC PPV in his MMA debut, that's what defines a freak show. Boxing is only one aspect of MMA just like all the others, the difference between him and fighters in other sports is they have start at the bottom, but James Toney gets a pass because he's a known boxer.

Good for business or not, James Toney is a freak show because he has 0 MMA fights, 0 MMA experience and is 41 years old, yet he landed a multi fight contract and will get to fight elite MMA fighters.


----------



## coldcall420

hehehehehehe.....Randy....LOL He always loves a challange....I'd go with Randy...:thumbsup:


----------



## Vale_Tudo

Toroian said:


> Randy has got one hell of weak chin! KO in 10secs by tony please dont do it randy for the name of the sport!



I think you're wrong.
Toney got one chance to hit Randy straight on the jaw or else Its right against the cage (and there's no ref to break here). Randy with some elbows, takedown, ground and POUND victory In the 1st round.

I really dont see anyone In the top 10 LHW/HW division losing to this guy. I dont care how good his hands are, this Isnt a boxing ring.


----------



## BadTrip

There's a certain fighter in the UFC how has been looking for a challenge in the area of throwing hands for a long time now.
He's actually a BJJ black belt and has really solid skills on the ground. He _usually_ uses those skills to neutralize the grappling and submissions attacks of his foes, and take the fight back up the feet because no one to date has seemed capable of mounting a challenge to him in the area of boxing.
He's even gone on record as wanting to do some pro boxing.

Maybe..... just maybe...... James Toney could present a challenge for this fellow.

Anyone?.... anyone? ....Bueller?


----------



## vaj3000

Just remember this guys...If he hits any fighter in MMA let alone the UFC they are going down

I say let toney hang around and fight some durable competition first...buentello anyone???


----------



## KillingRoad89

If he fights anyone who's smart enough not to stand around with him, he'll just find himself getting smothered or submitted very early. He's has 0 ground game experience. he can train all he wants for it but in the end experience always prevails. especially in something so technical as BJJ or any other ground work.


----------



## TraMaI

BadTrip said:


> There's a certain fighter in the UFC how has been looking for a challenge in the area of throwing hands for a long time now.
> He's actually a BJJ black belt and has really solid skills on the ground. He _usually_ uses those skills to neutralize the grappling and submissions attacks of his foes, and take the fight back up the feet because no one to date has seemed capable of mounting a challenge to him in the area of boxing.
> He's even gone on record as wanting to do some pro boxing.
> 
> Maybe..... just maybe...... James Toney could present a challenge for this fellow.
> 
> Anyone?.... anyone? ....Bueller?


LOL Silva would KILL HIM!

Silva is such a different striker than Toney and Toney wouldn't know what to do about it. Like I said, I'm waiting for someone to Muay Thai clinch him and just destroy his face with a knee because he's waiting to get separated. Silva would do that without the clinch.


----------



## BadTrip

TraMaI said:


> LOL Silva would KILL HIM!
> 
> Silva is such a different striker than Toney and Toney wouldn't know what to do about it. Like I said, I'm waiting for someone to Muay Thai clinch him and just destroy his face with a knee because he's waiting to get separated. Silva would do that without the clinch.


I'm just sayin'... Silva would love to have someone challenge him to a boxing match. Here it is.


----------



## Wookie

I kind of expect Dana to give him all fights he has an unrealistic chance of winning. Just to show all the boxing community that his comments were in fact on point. I am going to be cracking my ass up if it ends up being a Tim Sylvia type incident though. I would kind of be dreading an upset victory if I was Dana


----------



## KillerShark1985

Not so sure Randy would win to be honest, he could well be out muscled and be the slower of the 2 fights, dont get me wrong I think there are no end of fighters that would destroy Toney ant both HW and LHW, just not sure Randy is one of them.

I may stand alone when I say that if this fight was to happen, I would love to see Randy get KTFO.

Another thing is just because Toney has been restricted to the rules of the boxing circuit his entire career who is to say that he will not have some other skills that he has never had the chance to express before when he enters the octagon.

Sat here wishing "Oh please god let this fight happen and let Randy get KTFO by Toney"

Don't misunderstand, as much as I would love to see Toney get his ass handed back to him from one of the UFC's top fighter, I want to see Randy get KO'ed even more.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

vaj3000 said:


> Just remember this guys...If he hits any fighter in MMA let alone the UFC they are going down
> 
> I say let toney hang around and fight some durable competition first...buentello anyone???


That's actually who I was thinking he would fight first.


----------



## Grotty

*What is the real point for having toney in the UFC*

I have nothing but respect for Toneys boxing legacy but i dont see the reasoning for his arrival in the UFC.
Ok theres one fight out there 'Slice' but other than that whats the point, is the UFC trying to prove a point with MMA vs Boxing?, bearing in mind the numbers that watch the UFC is there any point bringing him in now?
What are your views as to be honest i cant see the point.:confused02:


----------



## tlilly

If this was James Toney 10 years ago, I'd be ecstatic. But what does a 41 year old mma rookie with worldly boxing skill really going to accomplish? I think he is too old and has taken too much punishment to make the huge leap from boxing to mma. 

I hate to agree with Dana White, but its true, traditional boxing stances won't work in mma when you have grapplers like randy. I think in his prime Toney would be very successful in mma. At this stage of his career, I have a lot of questions that won't be answered until he beats someone of relevance in MMA.


----------



## TraMaI

*Enough of James Toney news: Kenny Florian Talks Gomi*

Video Here

Sorry can't embed it. 

Let's talk about some legit fighting instead of all this Toney nonsense eh?


----------



## SUR1109

Emericanaddict said:


> Wow not much sense being used in this thread is there. Randy would dominate Toney in a way youve never seen Randy dominate someone before. Toney has litteraly no idea how to stop the clinch since most boxers embrace it to take a rest. Toney would just allow Randy to slide right into the clinch, Randy drops for an immediate double leg and it would be stopped in the first round. Ill gaurentee this aswell.
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> u took the words from my mouth


----------



## Emericanaddict

KillerShark1985 said:


> Not so sure Randy would win to be honest, he could well be out muscled and be the slower of the 2 fights, dont get me wrong I think there are no end of fighters that would destroy Toney ant both HW and LHW, just not sure Randy is one of them.
> 
> I may stand alone when I say that if this fight was to happen, I would love to see Randy get KTFO.
> 
> Another thing is just because Toney has been restricted to the rules of the boxing circuit his entire career who is to say that he will not have some other skills that he has never had the chance to express before when he enters the octagon.
> 
> Sat here wishing "Oh please god let this fight happen and let Randy get KTFO by Toney"
> 
> Don't misunderstand, as much as I would love to see Toney get his ass handed back to him from one of the UFC's top fighter, I want to see Randy get KO'ed even more.


What possible reason do you have for wanting to see Randy get KO'ed? What has the guy done to make you so angry with him lol. Your allowed to want that to happen I just don't understand why.

Also why on earth would you think a man as large as Toney who has only ever trained in Boxing would have any skills that could be used in a fight, aside from his boxing? If you havent rained in something then you have no understanding of said thing which means there are no other skills to show off. Toney is floundering boxer these days and only getting older. 

Even if Toney was to work on every other aspect of his game from now up until fight night Randy would be ahead of him by literally decades in his wrestling and years in general ahead of him in every other aspect EXCEPT boxing.

To say Toney could have other skills that the rules of boxing might not have allowed is just silly. Almost as silly as when Michael Jordan thought he could play MLB because he was a great NBA player. I mean yeah it could happen but I could get hit by stray bullet as im typing this. Chances are that i'll be fine and Toney's only other skills include hyping a fight and then losing to anyone who isn't a one dimensional stand up fighter stupid enough to trade with him.

Damn ive got an idea let's give him Roy Nelson. Id bet 100 dollars Barrel Boy would sub Toney within 4 minutes. Well not really but Roy would have more than a chance in that fight for sure. Actually damn that would be a fun fight and a great springboard for either guy that wins.


----------



## MILFHunter947

*Kimbo vs. Toney anyone?*

I am very tempted to start speculation for Kimbo vs. Toney

i love kimbo and all but toneys stand up is at world class boxer status, idk if kimbos is good enough to hang with him. Would be a sick-nasty match up though.

I dont think this is impossible because apparently toney will be competing at Lhw. And kimbo isnt sure whether or not to compete at hw or lhw. Hell maybe the fight could be at a catchweight, who knows?

I know kimbo is scheduled to fight mittrione next, but i think this would be a ridiculously good fight and isnt totally impossible. And to break it down for dana, this WILL make money.

So am i right or am i wrong?


----------



## ZENKI1

Give the true and original definition of mixed martial arts?
Now tell me what was the ufc was built off of?
Now give me a educated reason as to why techincally Toney doesnt belong? :confused02: You cant.


----------



## LV 2 H8 U

I'd love to see Silva kick his legs out and choke him to a humbling submission or better yet Id like to see Toney stubbornly not tap and go to sleep only to wake and find that he shite his pants on national tv.:thumb02:


----------



## tlilly

If Toney shows any sort of respectable cardio, he wins via brutal knockout and fans will be jumping on the Toney bandwagon only to be disappointed when he fights a real fighter that would take him down.


----------



## Ansem

LV 2 H8 U said:


> I'd love to see Silva kick his legs out and choke him to a humbling submission or better yet Id like to see Toney stubbornly not tap and go to sleep only to wake and find that he shite his pants on national tv.:thumb02:


Yeah if Thiago Silva is who your talking about i agree, imagine a fight with Toney and Thiago omg that wud be amazing, either way I cant wait to see Toney in the cage with a top 10 LHW fighter its gonna be fireworks


----------



## tlilly

ZENKI1 said:


> Give the true and original definition of mixed martial arts?
> Now tell me what was the ufc was built off of?
> Now give me a educated reason as to why techincally Toney doesnt belong? :confused02: You cant.


because mma is not what it was 10 or even 5 years ago. Fighters can no longer be just good at one type of mixed martial arts. They have to be adequate in other forms of mma. Its not that Toney can't gain these skills, but the odds are definitely against him because of his age. 

I know people compare him with another one trick pony in Lesnar. But Lesnar was still relatively young when he entered the sport and he is a freak in nature in terms of his size, strength and overall athleticism. Although I would agree Toney had great athleticism (quite possible still have that athletism) he doesn't have the advantages that Lesnar had. He also doesn't have father time on his side.


----------



## Finnsidious

ipbod said:


> So what if he's a boxer?
> 
> Dana wouldn't let a 41 year old kick boxer into the UFC with no fights, or 41 year old wrestler with absolutely no fights.
> 
> Of course it's a freak show. He has no fights yet will make the main card of a UFC PPV in his MMA debut, that's what defines a freak show. Boxing is only one aspect of MMA just like all the others, the difference between him and fighters in other sports is they have start at the bottom, but James Toney gets a pass because he's a known boxer.
> 
> Good for business or not, James Toney is a freak show because he has 0 MMA fights, 0 MMA experience and is 41 years old, yet he landed a multi fight contract and will get to fight elite MMA fighters.


 I agree. Dana can bullshit all he wants, it's a freak show and he goddam well knows it. Might as well sign Hong Man Choi and have him, Toney and Canseco all fight at the same time.

**** you Dana, don't waste my time with this bullshit. The only good that can come of this is if they put Toney in with at least average or better fighters and they just take him down and beat his stupid ass until he goes away.


----------



## G0K0S

Oh boy, this is the last thing the UFC wants. Both guys are in the UFC just because they have name recognition. Do you really want them both squaring off to make the fight an ultimate freak show? That can't be the type of publicity the UFC wants. It'll be a mockery of the sport.


----------



## Spec0688

Honestly, I think people are just over reacting to this. How is any different then lets say...Kongo? Kongo has superior striking skills but zero ground game. 

People are just hating on him because hes a boxer, there are PLENTY of fighters who only really have one true skill set in the UFC and have been around for a while. This is not a freak show signing like people are making it out to be. 

I am a Kimbo fan but Toney belongs more in MMA then he does.


----------



## vaj3000

ZENKI1 said:


> Give the true and original definition of mixed martial arts?
> Now tell me what was the ufc was built off of?
> Now give me a educated reason as to why techincally Toney doesnt belong? :confused02: You cant.


Because mma is like playing modern warfare online...you cant get a decent result unless you have several weapons in your arsenal.


----------



## xeberus

Boxing fans.


----------



## xeberus

If kimbo will be brutally KOd in seconds, unless he can get toney down.


----------



## Spec0688

Toney vs KO round 1 unless Kimbo gets a takedown, I would rather see Toney face a different fighter but I would still watch any fight Toney is in.


----------



## KillerShark1985

Emericanaddict said:


> What possible reason do you have for wanting to see Randy get KO'ed? What has the guy done to make you so angry with him lol. Your allowed to want that to happen I just don't understand why.


Without going into great detail of what I think of Randy Couture because I have my opinion of the guys slated before in other post, but suffice to say I have wanted to see him fight Rampage for years because I believe he he would of been KO'ed by Rampage any point in his career, since that fight will now never happen, I hope Toney can give him the KO he has so long deserved, I could no but I may upset a few Randy fans.



Emericanaddict said:


> Also why on earth would you think a man as large as Toney who has only ever trained in Boxing would have any skills that could be used in a fight, aside from his boxing? If you havent rained in something then you have no understanding of said thing which means there are no other skills to show off. Toney is floundering boxer these days and only getting older.


Herschel Walker came into MMA at 47 with no previous professional fighting experience, and put on what I thought was a very impressive performance, all be it he will never be a real championship contender, nether do I think Toney will be, but that does not mean to say he could not pick up some skill enough to give a decent performance and hold his own amongst the average professionals, maybe not the most elite guys the sport has to offer but who is to say he wont be able to compete with the Keith Jardine's of this world.



Emericanaddict said:


> Even if Toney was to work on every other aspect of his game from now up until fight night Randy would be ahead of him by literally decades in his wrestling and years in general ahead of him in every other aspect EXCEPT boxing.


I believe there are a lot of simulates in terms of training routes and general fitness levels between near all combat sports, once your body its at the level of strength, stamina, speed, flexibility to be very successful at one, then you have already overcome the hardest obstacle in getting your body physically ready to learn another,once you have the fitness levels required is just learning the technique which will be much easier for a guy who knows how to train and workout correctly than it would be a total newbie, so those years behind he is in wrestling skills as you say, I believe he could catch up real fast, GSP not only started wresting late he exceeded all those around him, not that I expect Toney to do a GSP but he could learn enough to hold his own.



Emericanaddict said:


> To say Toney could have other skills that the rules of boxing might not have allowed is just silly. Almost as silly as when Michael Jordan thought he could play MLB because he was a great NBA player. I mean yeah it could happen but I could get hit by stray bullet as im typing this. Chances are that i'll be fine and Toney's only other skills include hyping a fight and then losing to anyone who isn't a one dimensional stand up fighter stupid enough to trade with him.


Why is it silly, we wont know till we have seen him in an environment that allows his to use those skills if the exist or not, I not saying he does or does not ether way, I'm just saying we can't tell from judging what we have seen from him in Boxing



Emericanaddict said:


> Damn ive got an idea let's give him Roy Nelson. Id bet 100 dollars Barrel Boy would sub Toney within 4 minutes. Well not really but Roy would have more than a chance in that fight for sure. Actually damn that would be a fun fight and a great springboard for either guy that wins.


Who knows maybe he would, but lets face it, you can never write off Toney for not having at least a Punch's chance of a straight KO.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

I think that Toney would win this fight almost everytime. Kimbo is a brawler who hasn't proven that he can hang with good fighters. He is a brawler. Toney is a world champion boxer who has fought top flight competition throughout his entire career. I think that Toney would KO Kimbo easily.


----------



## ipbod

People are buying into Toney's boxing way too much, it wont be anywhere near as effective in MMA unless someone straight up just boxes him. Semmy Schilt could come over from K-1 right now and would get his ass handed to him by multiple heavyweights, same with Toney and he's not even in his prime, he's 41.

The only thing that's making people think Toney will be some KO artist is because top level boxers in MMA aren't common, but I'd bet money that the vast majority of fighters would bury him as long as they fought MMA and not boxing. What are people expect when he gets pinned up against the cage by Randy, tripped and then elbowed in the face? Somehow Toney is going to be able to deal with Couture's greco roman and turn into incredible hulk and knock him out, just because he's a boxer.

Cannot wait to see this guy get what he's asking for so both sports can see that boxers don't make instant MMA wrecking machines.


----------



## Soojooko

xeberus said:


> Boxing fans.


Bingo.


----------



## M_D

Too many James Toney threads, we are just going to make 1 main thread so that the forum does not get over ran with threads detailing every thing that he does ect..


----------



## M_D

Too many James Toney threads, we are just going to make 1 main thread so that the forum does not get over ran with threads detailing every thing that he does ect..


----------



## M_D

Too many James Toney threads, we are just going to make 1 main thread so that the forum does not get over ran with threads detailing every thing that he does ect..


----------



## M_D

Too many James Toney threads, we are just going to make 1 main thread so that the forum does not get over ran with threads detailing every thing that he does ect..


----------



## M_D

Too many James Toney threads, we are just going to make 1 main thread so that the forum does not get over ran with threads detailing every thing that he does ect..


----------



## M_D

James Toney​
All details revolving around the man James Toney from what he says, what others say about him, his actions, others actions towards him, ect... post all in here so we dont have 6456546546546 threads detailing his every movement :thumb02:


----------



## Ansem

Haha good call, but like every ufc event he's the "news" atm, i'm sure it will die down within a few days.With that said cant wait to see him fight in the cage!


----------



## M_D

honestly this is one fighter I really could care less to see in the octagon, I dont know what it is about him but I just cant get interested in him at all


----------



## Ansem

M_D said:


> honestly this is one fighter I really could care less to see in the octagon, I dont know what it is about him but I just cant get interested in him at all


Well to be honest I dont like him, but I do want to see him in the cage clueless and re-evaluating what he got himself into.


----------



## Soojooko

Yea... the forum did have a bit of a Toney bumrush today. I can see him featuring constantly due to his perpetual waffling. Whoever his opponent is, we'll never hear the end of it. Dan Hardy will hardly get a look in.


----------



## Spec0688

Why does everyone call him a freakshow, Sure he may not have a solid ground game, but I dont see him any differently then I see Kongo, Excellent striker and zero ground game. 

I would say Toney belong in MMA more then Kimbo does, or a lot of the TUF 10 fighters(horrible season). I am not saying that he will be a champion in the ufc, or that he will be even successful, but there is just so much hate on him, its like people are scared of a boxer posing a threat and making UFC fighters look silly...


----------



## alizio

Spec0688 said:


> Why does everyone call him a freakshow, Sure he may not have a solid ground game, but I dont see him any differently then I see Kongo, Excellent striker and zero ground game.
> 
> I would say Toney belong in MMA more then Kimbo does, or a lot of the TUF 10 fighters(horrible season). I am not saying that he will be a champion in the ufc, or that he will be even successful, but there is just so much hate on him, its like people are scared of a boxer posing a threat and making UFC fighters look silly...


 i am a big Toney fan... but ill hit ya with some reality.... he sucks now... he cant beat mid level boxers anymore and he is very short, with bad reach and not alot of power.

he basically talked shit to get his way into a contract?? kind of crazy in itself.

He is one of the best defensive boxers of all time. his positioning and shoulder rolls are legendary but he isnt close to his prime and he cant hang with top boxers anymore nevermind a sport that he isnt really trained in.

I really liked his managers point....

Would Pete Rose be the greatest cricket hitter ever?? i mean its still a stick and a ball, right?? of course he WOULDNT be... its a DIFFERENT SPORT!!


----------



## gwabblesore

At any rate I'm among the people who want to see Toney get smashed. When is he supposed to fight first anyway? If it's not for a while I say give him the loser of Liddell/Ortiz (ie Ortiz). Tito will be _way_ down the ladder but will still kick Toney's ass.


----------



## DropKick

They should have him fight Keith Jardine. Keith likes to stand and bang and his stand up really isn't that good. It might be another highlight reel KO for Keith's collection of defeats and a good win for Toney.


----------



## tlilly

alizio said:


> I really liked his managers point....
> 
> Would Pete Rose be the greatest cricket hitter ever?? i mean its still a stick and a ball, right?? of course he WOULDNT be... its a DIFFERENT SPORT!!


quoted for the truth. Not to mention he's on the wrong side of 40.

I'd rep you if I could...


----------



## The Horticulturist

Spec0688 said:


> Why does everyone call him a freakshow, Sure he may not have a solid ground game, but I dont see him any differently then I see Kongo..


Racism!!!!!!

loljk



I am excited to see how Toney handles the humbling process.


----------



## alizio

SJ said:


> Racism!!!!!!
> 
> loljk
> 
> 
> 
> I am excited to see how Toney handles the humbling process.


 i have a feeling when he loses, he will just give the UFC props and say something like "these MMA cats are fo'real" and laugh all the way to the bank.

he CANT GET A REAL BOXING FIGHT FOR $. thats why he is here, 1st and foremost. he talked his way into a nice amount of $ and if he wins good, if he loses, he has a good excuse and way out with dignity.

in fact he may become popular among MMA fans for taking up the challenge and being a showman even if he loses all his fights.


----------



## Pr0d1gy

Gomi hasn't fought a big fight in years. I think Florian would outlast him although I think Gomi is a far better fighter.


----------



## TraMaI

I'm not sure. Gomi is on a two fight win streak so it's not like he's lost his last 3 or something. I'm excited either way for sure.


----------



## vaj3000

my bro wants to have a bet that gomi will beat florian ( im also £5 down since bisping is too inept at pressing the action and finishing fights) i think gomi will not be able to handle florian


----------



## Terry77




----------



## prolyfic

I think this a is a good move by the UFC reason being, this will bring some boxing fans over if for nothing more than curiosity of how a Boxer would far. This will bring over new fans that will spread the word so PROMO wise this is a worth signing a possible flop.

As far as Toney actually being effective...it goes like this. If he wins it has to be in the first round. Boxing stamina is not MMA stamina and if any fighter brings him to round 2 I see him gassing quickly, between nerves and pressure he will have nothing come round 2, reguardless of who he fights.


----------



## KillingRoad89

I think kenny will be too much for him. i think he's going to tko gomi.


----------



## UFCFAN89

Cant wait for this fight tbh. Just worried about Gomi's gas tank. IMO, KenFlo will try to get this to the ground as soon as possible and not risk trading with Gomi.

I want Gomi to win, but I'm thinking KenFlo takes this via RnC.


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

There are not enough crappy fighters in the UFC for Toney to see through his multi-fight contract. He will be humiliated. Might as well give him what he wants right away, match him up with a top tier opponent and get this farce over with.

Even if he is given Kimbo, Kimbo will do the same thing he did to Ray Mercer (who, btw, is a hard puncher). Kimbo has improved in the sport and will know better, for the longevity of his career, than to engage in a punch up. I am quite sure that Kimbo can eat a few punches easily, if required, to beach the whale.

Toney has never been able to knock out the big boys in boxing and just because he is coming to the UFC, this fact is not going to magically change. He'll have 3 five minute rounds where the objective of his opponent will not be to try and engage in a boxing match. Toney could be beaten with kicks alone - leg, head, leg, body, leg, head. Toney will not have the luxury of lying on the ropes and having clinches separated. 

If Dana white has any integrity (left) then he gets Toney in and out of the UFC as quickly as possible by giving him the hardest match-up possible and then canceling his contract for inability to compete after he is rudely exposed. Toney's only possibility of lasting more than one fight is if his opponent is bribed through bonuses (or something) to stand and trade.


----------



## alizio

kenflo is a douchebag i will always cheer against. trying to cut ppl is just a lowlife move, esp with top of the head cuts etc.... 

i hope he makes it to BJ again just so BJ can stomp him more properly but i will be cheering for Gomi via fireball to the kidney


----------



## Syxx Paq

I dont even know who this freakin boxer is, but what id like to know is what weight does/did he fight at?


----------



## alizio

Syxx Paq said:


> I dont even know who this freakin boxer is, but what id like to know is what weight does/did he fight at?


 anywhere from 160 to 240 lol he has held belts at middleweight, supermiddleweight and cruiserweight but also fought all the way up at HW.

if i were dana i would tell him he cant be a HW he has to be 205 max. 185 would be better but i dont think he can make it,.


----------



## Halebop

Im with the Gomi hasnt fought enough big names lately crowd. Florian has been busy and besides the BJ fight he has looked amazing. Also, how much experience does Gomi have in a cage vs ring? It seems to matter if you aren't Fedor. I think Florian will tire Gomi out and get the rear naked choke in the third round. Anyone know if Gomi is training in Japan or America?


----------



## Soojooko

alizio said:


> anywhere from 160 to 240 lol he has held belts at middleweight, supermiddleweight and cruiserweight but also fought all the way up at HW.
> 
> if i were dana i would tell him he cant be a HW he has to be 205 max. 185 would be better but i dont think he can make it,.


240? ... try 260! Little tubsy motherfukker. And at 5'10" as well?! O my.

Its been so long since ive seen Toney anywhere near 205. Can he do it?

This whole thing is maximum lol... I cant wait to see how it pans out.


----------



## TraMaI

Terry77 said:


>


>:[ GTFO


----------



## Soojooko

I hate Florians face. Its too big for his body. Makes me feel uneasy. Hes also drips with smugness when he talks. When hes on MMAlive I want to piss on my telly.

Come on Gomi me old mukker! Roll the years and dispatch this little hobbit.


----------



## alizio

Soojooko said:


> 240? ... try 260! Little tubsy motherfukker. And at 5'10" as well?! O my.
> 
> Its been so long since ive seen Toney anywhere near 205. Can he do it?
> 
> This whole thing is maximum lol... I cant wait to see how it pans out.


 his last fight he weighed in at 217 so i dont think 205 is outta his range.

he just will get annilated so badly at HW. the size and reach will just overwhelm him very badly.

if he were very serious (which i dont think he is), James would get in real shape and show up at 185, a somewhat weak division and he would challenge Maia and beat him and i would laugh at this forum from here to eternity.

whats the difference between signing Maia who is the worst standup ive seen in along time and world class BJJ??? 

only age really. ill give maia the credit that he is working hard to improve. if James discovered the sport 20 years ago... who knows, right??


----------



## Syxx Paq

Soojooko said:


> I hate Florians face. Its too big for his body. Makes me feel uneasy. Hes also drips with smugness when he talks. When hes on MMAlive I want to piss on my telly.
> 
> Come on Gomi me old mukker! Roll the years and dispatch this little hobbit.


wheres the translate button at 

all i know is that kenflo is in a fight, and hes got a japanese guy, thats about it.


----------



## Soojooko

Syxx Paq said:


> wheres the translate button at
> 
> all i know is that kenflo is in a fight, and hes got a japanese guy, thats about it.


Lern to speak propper english like what I does.


----------



## TraMaI

Soojooko said:


> I hate Florians face. Its too big for his body. Makes me feel uneasy. Hes also drips with smugness when he talks. When hes on MMAlive I want to piss on my telly.
> 
> Come on Gomi me old mukker! Roll the years and dispatch this little hobbit.


Oi, don't be hatin' on guys with big noses >:[


----------



## tlilly

I think florian is quickly becoming the rich franklin of the lw division, minus the former champ part.


----------



## Soojooko

tlilly said:


> I think florian is quickly becoming the rich franklin of the lw division, minus the former champ part.


... and the dashing good looks.


----------



## tlilly

Soojooko said:


> ... and the dashing good looks.


lol i hate to bring it up, but one's ben stiller and the other is jim carey...


----------



## demoman993

I'm honestly quite excited to see what Toney brings to the table. I thoroughly enjoyed what he brought to boxing when he was a "prime" fighter. If he can bring his granite chin and punching power to the UFC he might give us a few KO's before they feed him to a wrestler.


----------



## Soojooko

tlilly said:


> lol i hate to bring it up, but one's ben stiller and the other is jim carey...


How dare you speak such SACRILEGE!!


----------



## Machida Karate

Wow Florian talks out of his ass... I love how he says the LW division is the most competitive the most talented and has the most well rounded guys, then goes on to say that there is no one that can Challenge Bj Penn at LW....

Which is true....

But funny how he would have a lot more challenges at WW but there SO much more talent richer at LW.... Sorry just because your at LW doesnt make it the most stacked Division....


----------



## tlilly

Machida Karate said:


> Wow Florian talks out of his ass... I love how he says the LW division is the most competitive the most talented and has the most well rounded guys, then goes on to say that there is no one that can Challenge Bj Penn at LW....
> 
> Which is true....
> 
> But funny how he would have a lot more challenges at WW but there SO much more talent richer at LW.... Sorry just because your at LW doesnt make it the most stacked Division....


I think its fair to say lw is one of the most stacked divisions in ufc. I think there is a difference in a stacked division vs a division that has many challengers.

I think lw is stacked because their are a lot of quality guys in that division. But I don't think the division has a lot of challengers because the champ (BJ) has knocked most of them out. 

On the other hand, lhw is stacked (it has a lot of quality guys) and it has tons of challengers. 

I think its fair to argue that lw, ww or lhw is the most stacked divisions in ufc.


----------



## prolyfic

demoman993 said:


> If he can bring his granite chin and punching power to the UFC he might give us a few KO's before they feed him to a wrestler.



I disagree, no way is any MMA fighter gonna risk standing to long with him in the 1st, cause no one wants to be "that MMA guy" that lost to a Boxer in his first MMA fight. Any fighter with less than half a ground game won't take to long to bring it to the ground for a spectacular GnP victory.


----------



## Machida Karate

tlilly said:


> I think its fair to say lw is one of the most stacked divisions in ufc. I think there is a difference in a stacked division vs a division that has many challengers.
> 
> I think lw is stacked because their are a lot of quality guys in that division. But I don't think the division has a lot of challengers because the champ (BJ) has knocked most of them out.
> 
> On the other hand, lhw is stacked (it has a lot of quality guys) and it has tons of challengers.
> 
> I think its fair to argue that lw, ww or lhw is the most stacked divisions in ufc.



Yeah to me its hard to say a division is the most COMPETITIVE at of ALL the weight classes, in the highest caliber organization, and there is No challengers??.....


I see your point on LW's having prob the most C+/B lvl fighters then the other divisions but i by no means think its the most competitive

So he only said that because he is in that division so i say again He is talking out of his ass lol


----------



## Syxx Paq

Soojooko said:


> Lern to speak propper english like what I does.


Sowwy, i r bein dumb, forgot this was internets, and that the numbre 1 lanuage is Engrish.

anyway this should be a good fight if this Gomi guy is as good as his "pride Superstar" hype says he is.


----------



## diablo5597

I think they should give him a good wrestler with a good chin who is athletic enough not to get caught while going in for the TD. Someone like Bader. That is if they want Toney to lose. If they want him to win maybe they can have him fight somebody who will stand and bang with him that doesn't have the best kicks. I think I would rather have him lose so the boxing fans don't think all the boxers are better though.


----------



## Machida Karate

Can anyone Honestly say that Kimbo Slice belongs in the UFC more then someone like James Toney??? Anyone???


----------



## Syxx Paq

Machida Karate said:


> Can anyone Honestly say that Kimbo Slice belongs in the UFC more then someone like James Toney??? Anyone???


i cant say he belongs, i will say Kimbo is a bigger draw, and i will say neither of them belong, nor does lesnar.


----------



## Machida Karate

Syxx Paq said:


> i cant say he belongs, i will say Kimbo is a bigger draw, and i will say neither of them belong, nor does lesnar.


Nor does lesnar.... oooooook anyone else?


ANYWAY....

Here is a cool Vid :thumb02:






Hard to understand it all though LOL


----------



## The Horticulturist

Machida Karate said:


> Can anyone Honestly say that Kimbo Slice belongs in the UFC more then someone like James Toney??? Anyone???


I agree, but people would argue that Kimbo brings huge ratings. Outside of 5 names, boxing is hardly recognized in the mainstream anymore and the UFC will require huge advertising to get anything out of Toney, in my opinion. 

There are obviously very serious boxing fans who would disagree with what I just said for sure. That being said, I like watching freak matchups, and he will provide some.


----------



## Syxx Paq

Machida Karate said:


> Nor does lesnar.... oooooook anyone else?
> 
> 
> ANYWAY....
> 
> Here is a cool Vid :thumb02:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hard to understand it all though LOL


different reasons on brock, he can actually fight, its just hes a giant steroided up gorrila, i personally dont think he should be in any legit prize fighting sport just from that roid abuse.

as for kimbo and toney, they dont belong for anything more than an attention grab.


----------



## Machida Karate

SJ said:


> I agree, but people would argue that Kimbo brings huge ratings. Outside of 5 names, boxing is hardly recognized in the mainstream anymore and the UFC will require huge advertising to get anything out of Toney, in my opinion.
> 
> There are obviously very serious boxing fans who would disagree with what I just said for sure.


Yeah but to say Kimbo would beat Toney in ANY kind of striking game is completely retarded, the dude got tired the 2nd round and barely threw much... Toney goes 10 rounds in most of his fights...


----------



## The Horticulturist

yup, you are 100% right there. I am just trying to look at both sides of it, because the UFC is going to do whatever they want and not listen to me anyway


----------



## Ansem

Machida Karate said:


> Nor does lesnar.... oooooook anyone else?
> 
> 
> ANYWAY....
> 
> Here is a cool Vid :thumb02:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hard to understand it all though LOL


Lol this guy overrates himself even more then Tito ortiz does of himself, and it seems like he has some mental issues.


----------



## LV 2 H8 U

Ansem said:


> Lol this guy overrates himself even more then Tito ortiz does of himself, and it seems like he has some mental issues.


His big mouth and his huge ego are both going to be reduced by some humbling GnP...IMO


----------



## Freiermuth

I wouldn't want to be the guy to fight him....not a big win if you do and you'd never hear the end of it if you lost.


----------



## Syxx Paq

Freiermuth said:


> I wouldn't want to be the guy to fight him....not a big win if you do and you'd never hear the end of it if you lost.


but what if you KTFO him? then you would be "the guy who shut up James Toney" id be proud of that title, id even ask it be my nickname when i get in the octagon.


----------



## Chileandude

Toney takes both of them via Double KO in a handicap match.

Puny little guys don't stand a chance against this future HOF Boxer.


----------



## Machida Karate

SJ said:


> yup, you are 100% right there. I am just trying to look at both sides of it, because the UFC is going to do whatever they want and not listen to me anyway


Its better to look at both sides of things, u get a better overall perspective lol.

And i wish it was at a different organization then the UFC, but i say let the guy fight, he proved himself in one aspect of MMA, and he says he got game, and at least he signed a multiple fight contract instead of just trying to get his paycheck.

But like i said, i wish it was somewhere other then UFC... And it better not be near any co main event....


----------



## Machida Karate

Chileandude said:


> Toney takes both of them via Double KO in a handicap match.
> 
> Puny little guys don't stand a chance against this future HOF Boxer.



LOL ur evil :angry02:


----------



## gwabblesore

Anthony Perosh? Any takers?


----------



## Syxx Paq

gwabblesore said:


> Anthony Perosh? Any takers?


WAR HIPPO!


----------



## TraMaI

Guessing you're relatively new to MMA? Well for the longest time Gomi was ranked #1 LW in the world (over BJ for part of that), then he started to go down hill a little. He should be a solid challenge for Kenny though for sure.


----------



## Shoegazer

I like Gomi, but have a difficult time seeing this version of Gomi defeat an in-his-prime Florian.


----------



## Machida Karate

Im going with Florian but all respect to Gomi


----------



## prolyfic

JUST SAD!!!!! Toney nearly gassed out in the 1 minute he was talking in the video. Ridiculous! He is gonna get hurt in the cage if he doesnt get in shape.


----------



## Machida Karate

gwabblesore said:


> Anthony Perosh? Any takers?



LOL hey that dude really does have a good ground game if he doesn't get KTFO first...

Still i would be pissed if they chose that guy, he would find a way to get KO'ed


----------



## joe davola

Spec0688 said:


> it's like people are scared of a boxer posing a threat and making UFC fighters look silly...


thats pretty much it, no matter how people try to disguise it


----------



## Ansem

joe davola said:


> thats pretty much it, no matter how people try to disguise it


yeah but once there on the ground its like beating down a baby


----------



## joe davola

iv'e said florian will win this but after i thought about it, i think gomi might pull the upset

i seriously think we will see the gomi of old, he has got to be pretty damn motivated to come to the ufc and test himself because if he was just doing this for the payday he would have stayed in japan where no doubt he would make more money and people seem to forget that gomi has serious wrestling credentials and is not just a striker

but at the same time i wouldn't be suprised if florian dominated him.

gomi by split dec. or florian by unanimous dec.


----------



## Freiermuth

Syxx Paq said:


> but what if you KTFO him? then you would be "the guy who shut up James Toney" id be proud of that title, id even ask it be my nickname when i get in the octagon.


Yeah, that would be cool too if you actually K him TFO...or just to really piss people off you could start calling yourself the 'boxer slayer' like Saku was for the Gracies haha.


----------



## AlphaDawg

I can not wait to see this guy tap out. Whether it's from strikes or a submission, it's going to happen. Guy is going to have absolutely no ground game.


----------



## chosenFEW

lmao an official james toney thread....

imagine shogun giving toney some of those kicks that machida took.

mma is a diff sport. toney will get outclassed. I really hope whoever he is fighting just tackles him and armbars his ass


----------



## Nikkolai

Halebop said:


> Im with the Gomi hasnt fought enough big names lately crowd. Florian has been busy and besides the BJ fight he has looked amazing. Also, how much experience does Gomi have in a cage vs ring? It seems to matter if you aren't Fedor. I think Florian will tire Gomi out and get the rear naked choke in the third round. Anyone know if Gomi is training in Japan or America?


Gomi has fought in a ring before against BJ but that was way too long ago. He is training in America and has joined A.K.A. I hope that with his new camp, his motivation came back.


----------



## betii

*James Toney: "I'm going to destroy these dudes! Couture...let's make it happen!"*

Newest James Toney interview talking about signing with the UFC:



> On how the UFC contract came about...
> 
> "It’s actually been going down for the last couple of months. At first, negotiations was tough, but we got it down yesterday. I will be fighting in the UFC, but I can still box and I’m still the IBA world heavyweight champion. They fail to realize that I do have a world title."
> 
> "The thing is I’m going to do both at the same time, but I said whoever comes with the most money, you know what I’m saying? Dan came back…they was bullshitting me at first and the UFC was bullshitting me at the negotiation table and then me and Dana got together, money was right and the timing was right, so me and Dana White are on good terms right now."
> 
> "Dana is a business man and he’s done a great job with the UFC and he brought it back to the top of the game. Now he has the top dog in boxing in his organization and it’s going to flourish even more now. Like I said, I’m already a heavyweight boxing champion and now I’m coming to the UFC. I’m bringing everything: excitement, charisma and pizzazz. They gonna love it and they gonna need more, you know what I’m saying?"
> 
> After being told that Randy Couture is hoping to be his first opponent...
> 
> "Damn...oh really? That’s what I’m talking about. That’s right up my alley. Oh, hell yeah!"
> 
> "Let me tell you something, I came to the UFC to do one thing and that’s to fight the best out there. If it’s Couture, so be it. If it’s somebody else, so be it. Let’s get it on and popping. When Dana White said MMA fighters are better than boxers, come on now, you know better than that."
> 
> On fighting in the UFC...
> 
> "The fights start standing and that’s my comfort zone all day, you heard me. If they think they going to rush me to the ground and think it’s going to be easy and I don’t know what I’m doing, come on man. I’m a very strong man. I know what I have to do and if they shoot in on me, they getting launched into outer space like a satellite."
> 
> "I’m going to destroy these dudes. If Randy Couture put on his Twitter page that he wants to see me, tell him it ain't shit. Let’s make it happen. If not in June, he can be the one after that."
> 
> "You can see me in a ring and a cage. You might see me in the ring in April and come back and see me in a cage in June. Who knows?"


----------



## prolyfic

I hope the don't "FEED", yes I say feed him to Randy. I say this because then Randy will be in title talks and his last 2 fights would have been complete gimmie's. The LHW Div is to deep for something like this to happen. No disrespect to Randy I just think his road to the top has been padded thus far in the LHW division, that is if this fight actually happens.


----------



## machidaisgod

Him against Couture could make his career very short, not that I give him no chance but why not a couple of creampuffs, like that Australian dude that even Crocop beat up. But who would be more embarrassed if they lost, Couture or Big Mouth/Tummy?
ps Yes Randy gets to pick his own opponents but he is a legend on one last run, btw I though he lost to Vera.


----------



## burgito

*I Dont Care How Many Threads There Are...*

What if Toney wins ?? :confused05:

Just imagine if he fights Couture and .... K.Os him.. Toney is a fighter and has insane KO power...INSANE...



What happens then...


----------



## JimmyJames

I would be shocked to see him win. 

He hasnt had a KO in boxing in a few years but with the smaller gloves and his vast years of experience in the ring it could happen. 


He will depend on a KO IMO, he has been really outta shape as of the past few yaers and Dana said he will be fighting at 205, when he is like 240 now. that is a huge weight cut for a 41 year old fighter. 

I think we will see a catchweight fight between him and Kimbo. Just like the Kimbo and Alexander fight.


----------



## machidaisgod

I was fortunate (well until I get Parkinsons) to train at Kronk with McCanty,Hearns, Moorer, Oba Carr, and James. James had a left hook that shook my brain, never sparred with Moorer, he just hit too hard for my size. Now that was many years ago but Couture will not beat Toney on his feet. If he tries he will get beat, but Randy is smarter than that and should win. Still Toney is bringing interest from the boxing fans and like I was hooked by mma if they get some boxing fans to switch than it is a great move. Boxing is suffering with only Mayweather and Pacman as the big names (when did boxing need lightweights to carry the sport?) its a great time for UFC to go in for the kill, smart move , imho, Dana.


----------



## Indestructibl3

I'm only interested in seeing him fight so that he can get taken down and GnP'd - curious to see his excuse. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if they 'Kimbo' him and give him a fighter with no ground game.


----------



## Indestructibl3

prolyfic said:


> JUST SAD!!!!! Toney nearly gassed out in the 1 minute he was talking in the video. Ridiculous! He is gonna get hurt in the cage if he doesnt get in shape.


I lol'd.


----------



## Blitzz

Really hope the fighters do not take Toney litely, otherwise they are going to get ktfo. Elite level boxer with mma gloves is a scary thought. He learns how to stuff a takedown, could be at least competetive.


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

burgito said:


> What if Toney wins ?? :confused05:
> 
> Just imagine if he fights Couture and .... K.Os him.. Toney is a fighter and has insane KO power...INSANE...
> 
> 
> 
> What happens then...


The last time Toney KO'd someone was 8 years ago, it took him 7 rounds to do it and his opponent only weighed 190 pounds. His last first round KO was 20 years ago. Please explain how he has insane KO power? He has never cleanly KO'd anyone over 190 pounds. His last fight was a second round TKO against a complete bum and his other recent TKO, against an already well done Evander Holyfield, was 6 1/2 years ago (Holyfield's corner threw in the towel). Toney is a great boxer, but a hard puncher he is not.


----------



## nickt12

Although its an old article I thought it was an intresting take by David Haye on the boxer v MMA debate, and relevant with Toney joining the UFC.

I think both Bisping and Enzo are about the same level in their sports (both with glass chins) and he seems to think its the mma guy everytime.

I think anyone with a decent ground game will beat Toney easily and that people do overestimate his KO ability.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/ufc/article2009724.ece


----------



## Thelegend

wow ive been out of it for a while cant believe this guy got in the ufc. i say he losses by second round verbal submission due to leg kicks lol


----------



## LoganDaBoxer

*James Toney Vs. Kimbo Slice - This Will Not Be a Freakshow*

Kimbo and Toney are legit standup fighters, so this will not qualify as a freakshow.


----------



## Machida Karate

GEEZ for one second i thought that this was actual fact.... And plus there is a James Toney thread for things like this....

And plus that is the VERY last person i would want Toney to fight...

I say lets avoid letting Toney KO someone, so we dont have to hear him after.... And Kimbo would get F'ED


----------



## LoganDaBoxer

Sorry, I didn't see the separate thread for this earlier, but I heard on the radio this morning that is official.


----------



## KillerShark1985

Yea I would not like to see Kimbo been fed to Toney, I would sooner see Toney fight JDS so we can see if he is really any good in the octagon, if they are going to feed him someone tho I hope its Randy Couture, I I too don't want to see Toney KO someone because I don't want the Boxers to have some fuel to run there mouths of about MMA, but for Randy I would make an exception.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Wow this is so ridiculous..:bye02: I can't believe, that guys like Toney and Kimbo get so much attention. How many threads did I read here over the last couple of days? 

Who cares about these guys?? I just don't get it, that a guy like Penn or Anderson get's one thread before an upcoming fight and this freakshow gets a million.. 

Can't believe that ppl actually wanna talk about those topics.. :thumbsdown: sad but this sport still needs to go through a lot!


----------



## Machida Karate

BobbyCooper said:


> Wow this is so ridiculous..:bye02: I can't believe, that guys like Toney and Kimbo get so much attention. How many threads did I read here over the last couple of days?
> 
> Who cares about these guys?? I just don't get it, that a guy like Penn or Anderson get's one thread before an upcoming fight and this freakshow gets a million..
> 
> Can't believe that ppl actually wanna talk about those topics.. :thumbsdown: sad that this sport still needs to go through a lot!



LOL! U make a good point my friend! Im actually getting really Annoyed myself with all the Threads.

And if it REALLY is Kimbo vs Toney, i hate Dana, and i think ill walk away from the fight if it REALLY is Kimbo....


----------



## BobbyCooper

Dana lost a lot of credit for what he did there.. :thumbsdown:


----------



## Machida Karate

Thelegend said:


> wow ive been out of it for a while cant believe this guy got in the ufc. i say he losses by second round verbal submission due to leg kicks lol



Yeah well Toney will do just find if its true that he got Kimbo.....

Does anyone know if this is fact yet?? On another thread a dude said he heard it was official...


----------



## LoganDaBoxer

Yea, I was real shocked by this matchup. Anyway, this is what I found on bloodyelbow.

"James Toney will make his MMA debut April 17th against Kimbo Slice at Vanderbilt Arena in Tennessee. Mike Swick will fight Matt Serra in the main event.
The fight would air on Spike TV, according to the rumor."


----------



## Machida Karate

BobbyCooper said:


> Dana lost a lot of credit for what he did there.. :thumbsdown:


Agreed but for me Scott Coker lost more credit giving Brett Rogers the loser against Fedor the title shot.... And then give Fedor a fight that the majority of the people voted AGAINST Werdum vs Fedor when Barnett get DQ'ed...

I dont care if M-1 was screwing shit, they should of waited or changed it now...

On top of the fact that people see Rogers winning and that would mean Fedor is going to fight the same dude he already beat for a title he should already have....

Pretty amateur





> Yea, I was real shocked by this matchup. Anyway, this is what I found on bloodyelbow.
> 
> "James Toney will make his MMA debut April 17th against Kimbo Slice at Vanderbilt Arena in Tennessee. Mike Swick will fight Matt Serra in the main event.
> The fight would air on Spike TV, according to the rumor."


 How Legit is that info i wonder U have link???


----------



## Chileandude

Kimbo and Toney are both standing in a similiar spot right now, both are old guys coming from another discipline.

It's the perfect fit, if Toney wins Dana can say Kimbo is just starting MMA. If Kimbo wins Dana can say that even a guy who lost in the Ultimate Fighter TV show can defeat a world class boxer in the cage.


Kimbo via suplex of death.


----------



## Nefilim777

Swick V Serra is the main event? Hardly...


----------



## 6toes

Machida Karate said:


> Yeah well Toney will do just find if its true that he got Kimbo.....
> 
> Does anyone know if this is fact yet?? On another thread a dude said he heard it was official...


Honestly I hope not. I'm not of the crowd that signing Toney was a particularly bad thing but putting him against Kimbo just has FREAK SHOW written all over it...

...Not saying that I won't be watching :thumb02:


----------



## Machida Karate

Chileandude said:


> Kimbo and Toney are both standing in a similiar spot right now, both are old guys coming from another discipline.


Another discipline.... What has Kimbo been doing for the last 20 years while Toney was a World Champion Boxer??

Winning and LOSING some street fights? And against unexperienced bouncers?? 

I hope im not commenting on sarcasm


----------



## Machida Karate

6toes said:


> Honestly I hope not. I'm not of the crowd that signing Toney was a particularly bad thing but putting him against Kimbo just has FREAK SHOW written all over it...
> 
> ...Not saying that I won't be watching :thumb02:


I will be tempted to walk away.... If this is true then were going to see Kimbo gas at first round and Toney getting a good laugh at UFC...

Although Kimbo is probably the ONLY fighter that people wont just this loss against him... And would actually be like HOLY SHIT if he won...

That alone might make Dana do it... Ive read on a lot of websites saying Toney needs someone like Kimbo that has little experience in the sport...

But the whole thing is stupid because Kimbo has 0 ground game and almost zero chance of beating a Pro Boxer....

LoganDaBoxer posted a link from Bloody Elbow saying this fight is going to happen http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/3/5/...ril-17th-james


----------



## LoganDaBoxer

Machida Karate said:


> How Legit is that info i wonder U have link???


Here's the link: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/3/5/1357755/toney-vs-kimbo-april-17th-james


----------



## Chileandude

Machida Karate said:


> Another discipline.... What has Kimbo been doing for the last 20 years while Toney was a World Champion Boxer??
> 
> Winning and LOSING some street fights? And against unexperienced bouncers??
> 
> I hope im not commenting on sarcasm


when did i say both had the same sucess?

They are very similar, too big names who made their names outside MMA in Fighting-Related enviroments and come into the UFC with little or no MMA experience.


----------



## Machida Karate

Chileandude said:


> when did i say both had the same sucess?
> 
> They are very similar, too big names who made their names outside MMA in Fighting-Related enviroments and come into the UFC with little or no MMA experience.


That i agree with, i was just saying what Discipline is Kimbo coming from?

He was only Boxing in those street fights, and i see Toney beating Kimbo easily


----------



## Chileandude

Machida Karate said:


> That i agree with, i was just saying what Discipline is Kimbo coming from?
> 
> He was only Boxing in those street fights, and i see Toney beating Kimbo easily


Well it depends, Kimbo seems to be taking MMA seriously, and do you think Toney will bring a ground game superior to Houston Alexander? Kimbo could try and work some slams and GNP.

I don't know how the fight would actually play out but i would be interested to see it and i think it would be a win-win for the UFC and the sport of MMA.


----------



## alizio

this move is about screwing over SF more then appeasing the hardcore fans. Kimbo vs Toney will bring numbers, BIG numbers. I bet UFC will beatout SF??? Wanna bet?


----------



## Machida Karate

Chileandude said:


> Well it depends, Kimbo seems to be taking MMA seriously, and do you think Toney will bring a ground game superior to Houston Alexander? Kimbo could try and work some slams and GNP.
> 
> I don't know how the fight would actually play out but i would be interested to see it and i think it would be a win-win for the UFC and the sport of MMA.


I agree




alizio said:


> this move is about screwing over SF more then appeasing the hardcore fans. Kimbo vs Toney will bring numbers, BIG numbers. I bet UFC will beatout SF??? Wanna bet?


I think UFC will def beat SF with a free card WITH Toney vs Kimbo added... And like i said in another post, there also in the same Area Live, so there taking there Gate money too...


----------



## daveh98

This is just a sad state of affairs. Let me say why...

James Toney WILL be remembered as one of the toughest throwback fighters of recent years. He has moved from middle to heavyweight and went 1-1 with HW sam peter. JT was a world class boxing athlete. He has rarely ever been hurt, KO'ed, and is very talented. He is a very tough guy by all standards of the word "tough." 

It is sad to see him put that legacy on the line in a totally different sport. He is making accusations about being the best and will beat the best in MMA but that is just not true. But uneducated fan boys will clamour to either "See toney can beat the crap out of MMA guys and hes like 100 years old" or "Dude average MMA guys kill boxers, they should never be allowed to fight in the cage again." 

Freddie Roach (Pac Man's trainer) used to train TOney. He said he was the most gifted athlete he has ever trained and the most supremely talented but was mitigated by poor lifestyle habits. Toney is still bad ass, even fat and old....even 3 weight classes too high with his horrid diet and lifestyle. That just shows how good he is from a technical BOXING level. 

For the people who think "this is great for MMA because it puts two guys from similar backgrounds in the cage"...wtf? Sorry there is NO similarity to having 5 street fights against fat bouncers and a guy who had a 20 year professional career against world class athletes with like 70 wins, a handfull of losses and an amateur record that spanned hundreds of fights. 

Boxers can make the transition to MMA..but not 40 year old ones. Boxers would have to learn to stuff some takedowns and learn some basics but they would do well...no MMA fighter disputes that (only inernet forum people). 

Regarding Kimbo Vs Toney...Toney wins against him 10 out of 10 times. Even when he is fat and old.


----------



## Syxx Paq

Chileandude said:


> Kimbo and Toney are both standing in a similiar spot right now, both are old guys coming from another discipline.
> 
> It's the perfect fit, if Toney wins Dana can say Kimbo is just starting MMA. If Kimbo wins Dana can say that even a guy who lost in the Ultimate Fighter TV show can defeat a world class boxer in the cage.
> 
> 
> Kimbo via suplex of death.


and people saying this is dumb of dana. why is it so inconceivable a fat 40-something boxer cant get hit with Kimbos Patented Uppercut of PWNurA$$?

btw +rep


----------



## diablo5597

Kimbo can definitely win this. He has a head start in MMA training and might be able to take Toney down and GnP him or maybe even submit him. Kimbo actually does have a win by submission in his career. If they stand though I think Toney will win pretty fast.


----------



## shane_fitz

To be honest, I have always backed Dana with his crazy statements about the UFC isn't a freak show and elite xc was a joke blah blah blah.. But if the UFC puts this fight together I will lose a Tremendous amount of respect for Dana and the fertitas and anyone involved in putting this matchup together(fighters excluded).. This will be even lower than elite xc bringing in Kimbo to fight Tank Abbott and a handful of other scRubs simply because Dana talked sooo much trash on them and the first chance he gets he does the exact same thing. Iono if the source is reliable or not but if this is true then IMO Dana has no credability and the UFC is full of crap talking bout doing what's best for the sport and all that nonsense.. Don't get me wrong it would be one kick a** fight to see but this is one huge step backwards for mma from my perspective.


----------



## Lloyd

daveh98 said:


> This is just a sad state of affairs. Let me say why...
> 
> James Toney WILL be remembered as one of the toughest throwback fighters of recent years. He has moved from middle to heavyweight and went 1-1 with HW sam peter. JT was a world class boxing athlete. He has rarely ever been hurt, KO'ed, and is very talented. He is a very tough guy by all standards of the word "tough."
> 
> It is sad to see him put that legacy on the line in a totally different sport. He is making accusations about being the best and will beat the best in MMA but that is just not true. But uneducated fan boys will clamour to either "See toney can beat the crap out of MMA guys and hes like 100 years old" or "Dude average MMA guys kill boxers, they should never be allowed to fight in the cage again."
> 
> Freddie Roach (Pac Man's trainer) used to train TOney. He said he was the most gifted athlete he has ever trained and the most supremely talented but was mitigated by poor lifestyle habits. Toney is still bad ass, even fat and old....even 3 weight classes too high with his horrid diet and lifestyle. That just shows how good he is from a technical BOXING level.
> 
> For the people who think "this is great for MMA because it puts two guys from similar backgrounds in the cage"...wtf? Sorry there is NO similarity to having 5 street fights against fat bouncers and a guy who had a 20 year professional career against world class athletes with like 70 wins, a handfull of losses and an amateur record that spanned hundreds of fights.
> 
> Boxers can make the transition to MMA..but not 40 year old ones. Boxers would have to learn to stuff some takedowns and learn some basics but they would do well...no MMA fighter disputes that (only inernet forum people).
> 
> Regarding Kimbo Vs Toney...Toney wins against him 10 out of 10 times. Even when he is fat and old.


I have to disagree with Toney winning 10 out of 10 times. Kimbo could easily take Toney down and ground n ound him. Also i wouldnt be suprised if Kimbo submitted Toney!


----------



## BobbyCooper

shane_fitz said:


> To be honest, I have always backed Dana with his crazy statements about the UFC isn't a freak show and elite xc was a joke blah blah blah.. But if the UFC puts this fight together I will lose a Tremendous amount of respect for Dana and the fertitas and anyone involved in putting this matchup together(fighters excluded).. This will be even lower than elite xc bringing in Kimbo to fight Tank Abbott and a handful of other scRubs simply because Dana talked sooo much trash on them and the first chance he gets he does the exact same thing. Iono if the source is reliable or not but if this is true then IMO Dana has no credability and the UFC is full of crap talking bout doing what's best for the sport and all that nonsense.. Don't get me wrong it would be one kick a** fight to see but this is one huge step backwards for mma from my perspective.


Couldn't have said it any better! The Sport just doesn't deserve this.


----------



## hommage1985

This is 1995 anymore where the strikers don't know what to do and people just train in one sole discipline. Toney has great boxing skills and will add wrestling, ju jitsu and kicks to his game. Nobody can say for sure how his ground game is or defence to kicks is because we have never seen it. So to say he can't do it is stupid. GSP was a karate guy and now is as good a wrestler as there is in MMA. Other wrestlers such as Koshcheck and Henderson now have good stand up.


----------



## Ansem

hommage1985 said:


> This is 1995 anymore where the strikers don't know what to do and people just train in one sole discipline. Toney has great boxing skills and will add wrestling, ju jitsu and kicks to his game. Nobody can say for sure how his ground game is or defence to kicks is because we have never seen it. So to say he can't do it is stupid. GSP was a karate guy and now is as good a wrestler as there is in MMA. Other wrestlers such as Koshcheck and Henderson now have good stand up.


At an age like Toney your comparing him to Koscheck and GSP? are you serious? not to be rude but theres no way in hell Toney is going to learn how to fight on the ground at a UFC standard because he's simply too old to learn it, it would have been different if he was a 20 something or even 30 year old joining MMA but this guy is at an age he should be soon to retire lol, and imo i just dont see him improving any significant changes on his ground work enough to fight any top level competition all-rounders, and one more thing according to the videos he puts out he dusnt seem very bright either.


----------



## Syxx Paq

Mr. Sparkle said:


> The last time Toney KO'd someone was 8 years ago, it took him 7 rounds to do it and his opponent only weighed 190 pounds. His last first round KO was 20 years ago. Please explain how he has insane KO power? He has never cleanly KO'd anyone over 190 pounds. His last fight was a second round TKO against a complete bum and his other recent TKO, against an already well done Evander Holyfield, was 6 1/2 years ago (Holyfield's corner threw in the towel). Toney is a great boxer, but a hard puncher he is not.


so then, now i know, since iv never really heard of this dude, that he has pillow fists. thanks for that, so if he stands with anyone, he isnt gonna KO them... and hes a boxer.... i cant wait to see someone beat the hell out of this guy.


----------



## Calminian

alizio said:


> i am a big Toney fan... but ill hit ya with some reality.... he sucks now... he cant beat mid level boxers anymore and he is very short, with bad reach and not alot of power.
> 
> he basically talked shit to get his way into a contract?? kind of crazy in itself.
> 
> He is one of the best defensive boxers of all time. his positioning and shoulder rolls are legendary but he isnt close to his prime and he cant hang with top boxers anymore nevermind a sport that he isnt really trained in.
> 
> I really liked his managers point....
> 
> Would Pete Rose be the greatest cricket hitter ever?? i mean its still a stick and a ball, right?? of course he WOULDNT be... its a DIFFERENT SPORT!!


If Dana's smart, he'll put Toney in with someone who will destroy him quickly. That may seem counter intuitive, but a washed up boxer having victories only makes the sport look bad. Welcome him with a gnp specialist. That'll get the sport noticed. We don't need another Silvia Mercer.


----------



## Ansem

Calminian said:


> If Dana's smart, he'll put Toney in with someone who will destroy him quickly. That may seem counter intuitive, but a washed up boxer having victories only makes the sport look bad. Welcome him with a gnp specialist. That'll get the sport noticed. We don't need another Silvia Mercer.


I dont think they need to put him against a gnp sepcialist i Think JDs can **** him up pretty good.


----------



## Calminian

Ansem said:


> I dont think they need to put him against a gnp sepcialist i Think JDs can **** him up pretty good.


I don't think they'd use JDS for this, though. But yeah, that would be lights out.


----------



## Ansem

Calminian said:


> I don't think they'd use JDS for this, though. But yeah, that would be lights out.


yeah that would be an overkill lol but you know what i mean, that theirs better strikers then him in the UFC and it would be funny to see him get outclassed in his only strength.


----------



## Syxx Paq

I Wish Mark "The Hammer" Coleman hadnt gotten cut for this very reason, a legend in MMA vs a Boxer trying to make a transtition to MMA in his 40's. the Hammer would make him even uglier.


----------



## Calminian

Syxx Paq said:


> I Wish Mark "The Hammer" Coleman hadnt gotten cut for this very reason, a legend in MMA vs a Boxer trying to make a transtition to MMA in his 40's. the Hammer would make him even uglier.


There's no way they'd get that fight sanctioned. They need to put him with a guy with less experience.


----------



## dudeabides

An article about 10 potential matchups for Toney in the UFC:



> When the UFC signed heavyweight boxing champion James Toney, they acquired not only a dynamic, outspoken puncher with dynamite in his hands, but an interesting problem for president Dana White and matchmaker Joe Silva.
> 
> With the UFC's deep talent roster at their fingertips, who will make the most exciting match-ups for a heavy-handed boxer like Toney? And perhaps, more importantly, what are the fights that fans are going to want to see?
> 
> Toney has hired well-known MMA and boxing coach Juanito Ibarra, who has also trained Quinton Jackson, to prepare him for his MMA debut. Ibarra spoke to BleacherReport.com about his plans for Toney, and revealed that they already have strong interest in some potential future opponents.
> 
> "James Toney will fight anybody," Ibarra stated. "It's up to us to help him figure things out. What I would like to see and what his manager would like to see... Kimbo Slice. It makes sense. The weight factor makes sense. Maybe a 220 [lbs.] fight somewhere in there. Two guys who have great names. I would love to see that fight... I think that's a great opponent... Hopefully, the UFC would consider something like that."
> 
> Although currently fighting as a heavyweight, in the past, Toney has won boxing titles in three lighter weight classes, including middleweight. Compared to many of the fighters in the UFC's heavyweight division, Toney is not a large man, which has fueled speculation that he might consider a drop down to light-heavyweight in the future.
> 
> A cut in weight is an idea Ibarra approves of.
> 
> "I like it," said Ibarra. "I think that's in the plan. I'd like to get him down to 205 and fight the winner of a Chuck and Tito (fight). Fights with Kimbo Slice and he goes on to fight the winner of a Chuck and Tito fight... I think it would sell and I think it would be a hell of a fight."
> 
> So with the stage being set for Toney to fight in the future in two possible weight classes, who is he likely to face when he steps into the Octagon? I'll count down 10 possibilities, from the likeliest to the simply intriguing.
> 
> *Kimbo Slice*. A bout between Kimbo Slice and James Toney is starting to look more and more like a foregone conclusion. Combine the comments of Toney's trainer Ibarra and the fact that Slice was pulled without comment from his planned UFC 113 match up against Matt Mitrione the same day Toney signed, and it seems like an official announcement may just be a matter of time. Although this fight would certainly be popular with many fans, the fact that Slice himself has rather raw MMA credentials and a sensational background, could lead some to question this selection. And unless Slice has been making rapid progress on his takedown skills, it's hard to imagine the night wouldn't end very badly for him when faced with a boxer of Toney's caliber.
> 
> *Keith Jardine*. Not long after the news first surfaced of Toney's interest in fighting for the UFC, the boxer claimed on ProFightNetwork.com he could beat any fighter in the UFC. It wasn't long before Jardine called his bluff, offering to put up his own purse if Toney beat him. Now that Toney has signed, it seems like this fight could become a possibility, and it would certainly offer an interesting match up for the fans. Jardine is looking to bounce back from his KO loss to Ryan Bader at UFC 110, and he would offer Toney the challenge of facing a seasoned MMA veteran. Add in the fact of their personal history, and you have a fight that would be easy to sell.
> 
> *Randy Couture*. Couture has wasted no time in calling out Toney, stating on his Twitter page "I hope I'm the first guy they call to fight tony ! " just a few hours after the boxer's signing was announced. It's a fight that would certainly have some appeal for the fans, but it would also carry a lot of risk for the UFC. Most likely, we would see Couture use his world-class wrestling skills to take down the inexperienced Toney and finish him on the ground. But the other possibility, that the boxing champ would catch the UFC legend with a big KO, could leave the UFC with both a literal and figurative black eye. If Toney manages to make his Octagon debut and beat one of the most famous men in UFC history, it could turn into a public relations nightmare, as well as taking away some of the luster from one of the UFC's most marketable fighters.
> 
> *Chuck Liddell*. "The Iceman" is already committed to fighting Tito Ortiz at the conclusion of "The Ultimate Fighter" season 11, where the two men will act as coaches. But now that he has been called out by Ibarra as a potential future opponent for Toney, it certainly seems that it's a fight that could sell for the UFC. Toney would be a very dangerous match up for Liddell, as his vast boxing experience would offer a powerful counter to Liddell's brawling style. This is a fight that Liddell would be wise to decline, as he is most likely one violent knockout away from retirement.
> 
> *Tito Ortiz*. As stated above, Ortiz is already committed to fighting Liddell in June, but just like Liddell, he has now been called out by Toney's trainer. Given Ortiz's history, it seems unlikely that he will fail to respond. A Toney vs. Ortiz match up could be a big hit for the UFC. Ortiz is a great salesman for his fights, and he has few equals in trash-talking. Toney has already shown that he is no slouch in that department himself, and it seems likely that a match between the two would have an epic build up. Win or lose against Liddell, look for Ortiz to figure into Toney's future in the UFC.
> 
> *Mirko Cro Cop*. The Croatian striker famous for his devastating head kicks would make an intriguing match up for the heavyweight champ. Although Cro Cop has looked off his old Pride form lately, against an opponent like Toney, who could be depended on to keep the fight standing, he might be willing to unleash more of the fierce kicks that made him famous. This is a fight that would have brutal knockout written all over it, and it would likely keep the fans on the edge of their seats - but not for long.
> *
> Anderson Silva*. Silva has long stated his desire to fight boxing star Roy Jones Jr. Couple this with his willingness to switch weight classes and his often-stated wish to compete in the biggest fights possible, and a match up between Silva and Toney becomes an interesting possibility. Silva has some of the best striking in MMA, but even he would have to respect the power in Toney's hands. This is another fight that would likely feature some violent striking and be unlikely to go the distance, and it would offer an exciting spectacle for the fans.
> *
> Cheick Kongo*. Kongo possesses a vicious striking game but has struggled throughout his career with fighters who were able to take the fight to the ground. Against Toney, he would have no such worries. It would be a pure striking war, and would pose the question of how well Toney would be able to overcome the Frenchman's powerful kicks. For those of us who enjoy a high-octane striking contest, this match up would be a pure guilty pleasure.
> 
> *Brandon Vera*. Vera would have an opponent in Toney who could push the pace of the fight and have the power to finish business with a single punch - and it would be interesting to see how he responds. Vera has some devastating Muay Thai skills that led to a number of knockouts early in his career, but four of his last five fights have ended in decisions. Toney would give him the opportunity to showcase his kickboxing ability against an opponent who is a pure striker, and the results could be spectacular.
> 
> *Roy Nelson*. "Big Country" has showcased both his ground game and his stand up skills in his time in the Octagon and on "The Ultimate Fighter" season 10. Nelson never lacks self-confidence, and he brings a good game plan every time he fights. It would be in Nelson's best interests to take the fight to the ground as quickly as possible, but he has shown a willingness in the past to stand and bang. Would Toney be able to score a big knockout on "Big Country," or would he fall victim to the famous crucifix that Nelson has used to such good effect in the past?


http://www.fiveknuckles.com/mma-new...ial-match-ups-for-James-Toney-in-the-UFC.html


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

James Toney or Chris Byrd...or are they about the same?

won 41 (KO 22) + lost 5 (KO 4) + drawn 1 = 47 - 46% ko
won 72 (KO 44) + lost 6 (KO 0) + drawn 3 = 83 - 53% ko

People in the know will know what I am getting at...I hope.


----------



## Syxx Paq

Some one said Toney hasnt had a legit First round Knockout in at least a decade, and since his record isnt on his wiki i dont feel like looking further towards it, i dont see how he has Dynamite in his fists, or could even strike with someone who DOES have Knockout power.


----------



## JimmyJames

Well this proves that I am not in the know..........


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

Syxx Paq said:


> Some one said Toney hasnt had a legit First round Knockout in at least a decade, and since his record isnt on his wiki i dont feel like looking further towards it, i dont see how he has Dynamite in his fists, or could even strike with someone who DOES have Knockout power.


I did (and it is 20 years ago):


*1990-03-01* 160	Philip Morefield	157	18-4-1	

The Palace, Auburn Hills, Michigan, United States	W	KO	1	10

Here is his record:

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=1437&cat=boxer


----------



## daveh98

Tough one. James toney is definitely the tougher guy. Chris Byrd is very slick but not a hard puncher...but naturally bigger. I would probably guess James Toney. But neither guy at the HW is considered a hard puncher. By MMA standards...they would be lethal though.


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

JimmyJames said:


> Well this proves that I am not in the know..........


Well...I guess you have to be a boxing fan. Chris Byrd is very similar to James Toney, and no one ever accused Chris of being a hard puncher (unlike Toney). Byrd held the IBF belt for a long time and fought the biggest heavies out there and never ducked a fight. Byrd is great (even more talented thatn Toney, IMHO), but if he was about to enter the UFC the outcry would be deafening).


----------



## Syxx Paq

Wow, it really is 20 years ago, seriously if he does fight Kimbo, im gonna be sittin watchin, hopin kimbo KTFO's this fool.


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

daveh98 said:


> By MMA standards...they would be lethal though.


See...I just don't buy that. No disrespect, and I am glad you know your shit, but I just don't believe that MMA raises a boxers power just like that. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Cheers


----------



## imrik32

How is this a UFC discussion? Just because James Toney got signed by the UFC doesn't make this a ufc discussion.


----------



## daveh98

Just because he isn't a KO artist at this stage of his career doesn't mean he won't have the power with 4oz gloves. He is still much better than Ray Mercer. Boxing gloves are not MMA gloves. He will bring the heat with his fists those gloves. 

People who don't know this guy are being presumptious. He is a TOUGH guy. He is fat, has poor habits outside the ring and that has prevented his true greatness. But despite all that fat and poor habits...he still has accomplished amazing things in the past 20 years. It shows how amazing he is. 

I don't know why people think Kimbo is a good opponent. Did I not see something in his last fight against houston? I saw two men throw about 4 punches a round leaning over at the end of the fight due to exhaustion. Kimbo is not a world class athlete; yet he is fighting in a world class organization. 

Sure, he COULD beat Toney hypothetically if he got him to the ground. But typically, a world class athlete will find a way to win because they are used to winning. Kimbo is just a marketing gimmic with no champion pedigree. Toney will KO Kimbo in seconds.


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

imrik32 said:


> How is this a UFC discussion? Just because James Toney got signed by the UFC doesn't make this a ufc discussion.


You said UFC twice in your post...you just made it official.

It is a UFC post as the only claim to fame Toney has to justify his inclusion in the UFC is his phantom punching power. I was also drawing a parallel to a similar boxer with a similar career (who may even be better than Toney), who if he entered the UFC, there would be a huge outcry due to his known lack of power (something Toney shares). So...is it about the UFC or not?


----------



## Syxx Paq

THIS IS the official Toney Thread, so Who is hated more/bigger marketing gimmick?

Kimbo Slice
or
James Toney

personally id say kimbo, despite that i actually like the guy. It must be his hobo beard.


----------



## JimmyJames

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Well...I guess you have to be a boxing fan. Chris Byrd is very similar to James Toney, and no one ever accused Chris of being a hard puncher (unlike Toney). Byrd held the IBF belt for a long time and fought the biggest heavies out there and never ducked a fight. Byrd is great (even more talented thatn Toney, IMHO), but if he was about to enter the UFC the outcry would be deafening).


I know my boxing, I just dont get what you are doing or trying to say with this thread........


----------



## daveh98

Mr. Sparkle said:


> See...I just don't buy that. No disrespect, and I am glad you know your shit, but I just don't believe that MMA raises a boxers power just like that. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
> 
> Cheers


Guys like Maynard and Pulver confirm it. Maynard said when he trained over at Wild Card gym that he never thought an 18 year old amateur would hit so hard and school him so quickly. Obviously Maynard was just there to work on striking and isn't implying that "boxers are better." But he sure did say they were harder, faster and better punchers. 

It does make sense because all we do is throw punches all day everyday. I mean have you seen professional boxers hit the speed bag, heavy bag and shadow box? It is light years ahead of MMA. Because we "only punch," there are so many other angles and nuances that separate the best from the B and C level professional boxers. 

Honestly, I box at 200 pounds and at Kronk when I started boxing, a 160 pound guy punched so much harder than I could. His name is Bronco McKart. He can be found on boxrec.com. He is NOT a KO artist. But that guy could hit the heavy bag harder than any other "big guy" in there that was an amateur or new professional. At one time..he was an A level boxer. When you get that high up there and you have been punching since you were five....you will hit much harder than the average fighter. 

But the higher up the chain you go..the harder it is to get KO's (you are fighting better competition). So the people that get the KO's at the A level.....are DEADLY punchers. Their PSI punch is much higher than the average professional boxer. 

But throw a boxer that was at the A level into an environment with half the padding on the gloves (8 Vs 4 oz) and you will see one punch KO much better than anything you have seen. 

I am not alluding to the fact that Toney will win against A level MMA. I am just saying that at 205, if you thought Liddel, Kimbo, Wandy, Belfort, etc had KO power...it would be nothing to the KO a guy like Toney could do. The problem is that he probably won't be able to "get off" before he gets taken out of his world. 

But because he is so tough and has such an amazing chin....he may be able to learn a few tricks to make this MMA thing interesting. I personally wouldn't want to have my legacy end on a new sport in a new environment...but that is just the kind of guy he is.


----------



## mmamasta

Mr. Sparkle said:


> See...I just don't buy that. No disrespect, and I am glad you know your shit, but I just don't believe that MMA raises a boxers power just like that. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
> 
> Cheers


I would have to disagree. Now, don't get me wrong, if we're talkin' mma rules, I'm gonna take an mma guy to win a fight over a boxer. But, if we're talking sheer punching power, Western boxers have the hardest punches bar none. I can't think of them right now, but there have been a couple of tv shows that have done scientific studies about power shots, and punches, and the power that Western boxers get behind their power far surpasses any other hand strikes. Again, in an mma fight, it's not AS helpful, but if we are just talking strictly punching; the torque they create starting from their toes in just incredible. Western boxers literally use every muscle possible to make their punches the hardest.

To bring this back to your post. Against guy that is thinking about takedowns or doing any sort of kicking, a boxer is going to punch WAY harder.


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

daveh98 said:


> Guys like Maynard and Pulver confirm it. Maynard said when he trained over at Wild Card gym that he never thought an 18 year old amateur would hit so hard and school him so quickly. Obviously Maynard was just there to work on striking and isn't implying that "boxers are better." But he sure did say they were harder, faster and better punchers.
> 
> It does make sense because all we do is throw punches all day everyday. I mean have you seen professional boxers hit the speed bag, heavy bag and shadow box? It is light years ahead of MMA. Because we "only punch," there are so many other angles and nuances that separate the best from the B and C level professional boxers.
> 
> Honestly, I box at 200 pounds and at Kronk when I started boxing, a 160 pound guy punched so much harder than I could. His name is Bronco McKart. He can be found on boxrec.com. He is NOT a KO artist. But that guy could hit the heavy bag harder than any other "big guy" in there that was an amateur or new professional. At one time..he was an A level boxer. When you get that high up there and you have been punching since you were five....you will hit much harder than the average fighter.
> 
> But the higher up the chain you go..the harder it is to get KO's (you are fighting better competition). So the people that get the KO's at the A level.....are DEADLY punchers. Their PSI punch is much higher than the average professional boxer.
> 
> But throw a boxer that was at the A level into an environment with half the padding on the gloves (8 Vs 4 oz) and you will see one punch KO much better than anything you have seen.
> 
> I am not alluding to the fact that Toney will win against A level MMA. I am just saying that at 205, if you thought Liddel, Kimbo, Wandy, Belfort, etc had KO power...it would be nothing to the KO a guy like Toney could do. The problem is that he probably won't be able to "get off" before he gets taken out of his world.
> 
> But because he is so tough and has such an amazing chin....he may be able to learn a few tricks to make this MMA thing interesting. I personally wouldn't want to have my legacy end on a new sport in a new environment...but that is just the kind of guy he is.


To mmamasta, too

If Toney can get off in a way he wants...yes, I bet he could throw a great punch. But, he will not be able to maintain a classic boxing stance, ergo - power, as he knows it, out the window. 

Thanks for replying. I was beginning to think there were no boxing fans here. Not that I consider myself the greatest voice in boxing, but I have been watching it a long time and I was hoping to lure out some fans.

As a side note: a friend on mine was once brought in to spar with James. My friend held his own...so Toney bit him. My friend, being who he is, dropped Toney with a groin shot the next chance he got. 

Anyway...great chatting


----------



## daveh98

One last comment Mr Sparkle..I agree that Toney might not translate well in MMA as say a guy like Pacquaio, Mosley, a prime Mike Tyson or someone like that would. James is like Mayweather in that he uses a shoulder roll style that is just too prone to get a takedown in MMA. I see that being the BIGGEST problem for James Toney.


----------



## hommage1985

Ansem said:


> At an age like Toney your comparing him to Koscheck and GSP? are you serious? not to be rude but theres no way in hell Toney is going to learn how to fight on the ground at a UFC standard because he's simply too old to learn it, it would have been different if he was a 20 something or even 30 year old joining MMA but this guy is at an age he should be soon to retire lol, and imo i just dont see him improving any significant changes on his ground work enough to fight any top level competition all-rounders, and one more thing according to the videos he puts out he dusnt seem very bright either.


Im not comparing him to GSP im just saying that GSP came into MMA with a karate background now is outwrestling guys with wrestling backgrounds like Kos. Everybody here just jumps to conclusions that a boxer can't fight on the ground. It's no different from ju jitsu guys learning stand up or wrestlers learning ju jitsu ect....... Bottom line it's probably easier to learn how to stall on the ground then it is to have great stand up skills.


----------



## M_D

it will be interesting to see him the octagon however the fight unfolds, i am intrigued


----------



## coldcall420

*Randy Couture: James Toney was willing to step up and put his money where his mouth i*

http://www.mmamania.com/2010/3/6/1360038/randy-couture-james-toney-was



> Quoteworthy:_"Several boxers have stepped up and said that we are no good at striking and they would knock us out, and James Toney is no different. He’s the first one that is willing to step up and put his money where is mouth is though, and I’d love to welcome him into MMA. There is no reason boxers can’t be successful in MMA. However, they need to learn, just as I did as a wrestler, that there are a lot of different techniques to learn. Or else they will be a fish out of water if they ignore those skills."_​Five time UFC Champion Randy Couture isn't so quick to dismiss the chances of a professional boxer making a successful transition to mixed martial arts -- even a 41-year-old portly pugilist named James Toney -- who joined the Zuffa roster earlier this week. "The Natural" is looking for interesting fights in the twilight of his career and has talked openly about facing Rich Franklin and Lyoto Machida -- and even "Lights Out." Any Maniacs out there have a preference of who the Hall-of-Famer fights next?


 
Thoughts??? Sorry M_D.....LOL:thumb03:


----------



## JimmyJames

I agree with Randy. Toney did step up.

I would like to see them give Toney a great fighter like Randy for his first fight. Just to prove a point that MMArtist > Boxers in MMA fights. I dont care how good Toney's hands are, he is gonna need a ground game.


----------



## Spec0688

Randy respectful as always. good read


----------



## 6toes

I'm in the same boat as Randy about this, Toney talked a lot of smack but he's the first to step up from the boxing community to try and prove his point. I say good on the man.

Honestly Randy would probably be a good first opponent for Toney. I would just be worried that Randy would try and stand with Toney for some reason in the opening of the fight and get clipped with a big punch :dunno:.


----------



## coldcall420

6toes said:


> I'm in the same boat as Randy about this, Toney talked a lot of smack but he's the first to step up from the boxing community to try and prove his point. I say good on the man.
> 
> Honestly Randy would probably be a good first opponent for Toney. I would just be worried that Randy would try and stand with Toney for some reason in the opening of the fight and get clipped with a big punch :dunno:.


 
I think Randy would walk him right to the cage and dirty box him there, then perhaps toss him and finish him.....


----------



## 6toes

coldcall420 said:


> I think Randy would walk him right to the cage and dirty box him there, then perhaps toss him and finish him.....


That would be the easiest and most logical way to go about it but we all know how Randy likes to "challenge himself."


----------



## coldcall420

6toes said:


> That would be the easiest and most logical way to go about it but we all know how Randy likes to "challenge himself."


 
Hence....IMO....his loss to NOG.....


----------



## machidaisgod

Yes he is 41 but he is a kid compared to Randy, Iff the odds are good (3-1 at least) I will take a flyer on Toney, he could easily knock him out with one punch.


----------



## Diokhan

6toes said:


> I'm in the same boat as Randy about this, Toney talked a lot of smack but he's the first to step up from the boxing community to try and prove his point. I say good on the man.


Mercer already stepped up and proved his point by knocking sylvia out in 9 seconds.

Anyway nothing but respect for Toney for doing this, even though I disliked his comments about calling bjj and wrestling gay sports.


----------



## 6toes

Diokhan said:


> Mercer already stepped up and proved his point by knocking sylvia out in 9 seconds.
> 
> Anyway nothing but respect for Toney for doing this, even though I disliked his comments about calling bjj and wrestling gay sports.


Good point, poor Tim... :thumb02:


----------



## coldcall420

Its doofus Silvia we were talking about who didt train for that fight....yes he was UFC champ when the division was peaking with talent....:confused05:


----------



## 6toes

coldcall420 said:


> Its doofus Silvia we were talking about who didt train for that fight....yes he was UFC champ when the division was peaking with talent....:confused05:


Haha, it couldn't have happened to a better guy. Has Tim shown his face in the MMA world (or in public in general) since Mercer knocked him stiff? What organization did this take place in by the way? I remember seeing some really bad quality shakey cam footage of the fight after it first happened.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Stick Toney in with Rothwell or Pat Berry. I don't want to see any easy fights or freak show bouts. If JT wants to be tested, then test him. Dana has enough fighters capable of making him loads of cash, so I see little need to 'spare' Toney. You'd think he'd be jumping at the chance to squash the boxer who called out both him and his sport. I've no problem with JT, and think it great that he's willing to back up his big mouth... in order to do that, however, he has to fight credible mixed martial artists.


----------



## coldcall420

6toes said:


> Haha, it couldn't have happened to a better guy. Has Tim shown his face in the MMA world (or in public in general) since Mercer knocked him stiff? What organization did this take place in by the way? I remember seeing some really bad quality shakey cam footage of the fight after it first happened.


 
Dunno but saw this today.....he isnt in Dream and is now looking to fight Wes Sims next or Pudzinowski(spelling) the worls strongest man who I think will murder him....

What a joke......


----------



## JimmyJames

coldcall420 said:


> Dunno but saw this today.....he isnt in Dream and is now looking to fight Wes Sims next or Pudzinowski(spelling) the worls strongest man who I think will murder him....
> 
> What a joke......


I read somewhere that Tim is fighting Pudzinowlnfwqejbwevb or what ever his name is on March 15.

Looks like the fight isnt signed just yet. More about Tim here.
http://mmajunkie.com/news/18117/former-ufc-champ-tim-sylvia-juggling-three-possible-fights-though-none-yet-signed.mma


----------



## Pound&Mound

coldcall420 said:


> Hence....IMO....his loss to NOG.....


Pretty sure Nog dominated him everywhere, even when Randy was on top Nog swept him pretty easily.


----------



## Indestructibl3

*So ... Randy wants Toney?*

Hey guys, so ... I've been thinking (a miracle huh?) as there has been a lot of talk on Couture's end about him wanting to be Toney's first opponent - will Randy stand and trade with him? Or will he simply use his Greco, put him on his back and pound him out? Because to be quite honest, if this fight WAS to occur (which I highly doubt they'd feed Toney to a wolf first up) I'm sure Dana would be telling Randy "Dude, you're going to f8cking stand and bang with him" or something like that, otherwise they wouldn't give him the fight.

Thoughts?


----------



## Nefilim777

I'd like to see this fight happen, I think Randy would go to town on him..


----------



## Danm2501

Why would an average striker like Couture, with a top class greco-roman wrestling background choose to stand with a Professional Boxing world champion? Couture is taking Toney down and pounding him out, no question about it. I'd actually rather see Toney vs Kimbo for Toney's first fight, would be entertaining to see Kimbo standing right infront of James Toney waiting to have his head knocked into the 15th row.


----------



## Indestructibl3

Danm2501 said:


> Why would an average striker like Couture, with a top class greco-roman wrestling background choose to stand with a Professional Boxing world champion? Couture is taking Toney down and pounding him out, no question about it. I'd actually rather see Toney vs Kimbo for Toney's first fight, would be entertaining to see Kimbo standing right infront of James Toney waiting to have his head knocked into the 15th row.


Dude that's exactly my point, I don't think the Randy v Toney fight would happen if Randy WASN'T going to stand with him. If they were smart, they'd build Toney up - Kimbo style - because if they were smart - THEY WOULD WANT HIM TO DO WELL, because then the MMA world would gain attention/interest from the Boxing world = greater market = larger organization (the UFC in this case).


----------



## Vale_Tudo

Unless you put a stupid ass like Junie Browning In there, then nobody In the UFC will _box _with this guy.

Randy will clinch, elbow, takedown and ground and pound a victory within the first round.

Dana should give Toney a pure striker If he wants him to last longer than one fight in the UFC. Someone with horrible takedowns and bad groundskills. Perhaps someone like Kongo or Cro Cop.

_If _Toney should get past one of those guys then feed him to Cain and end this boxing vs mma nonsense


----------



## HaVoK

Indestructibl3 said:


> I'm sure Dana would be telling Randy "Dude, you're going to f8cking stand and bang with him" or something like that, otherwise they wouldn't give him the fight.
> 
> Thoughts?


Hardly.:confused03:


----------



## War

I'm confused as to why someone would want him to do good? I'm confused as to why someone who is an MMA fan wouldn't want him fed to Couture and smashed out to be exposed. I don't want former boxers coming into MMA and hoping that because they can't box they'll be able to take on someone with hands not on their level and knock them out for a payday. I watch MMA to see fighters who can do everything, not one sided trick ponies who talk a bunch of nonsense.

I completely respect Tony as a boxer but I'm an MMA fan and have felt for a very long time that pure boxing is much like the Dodo. It helps but basing everything around it is as much a mistake as training only to submit someone with an armbar. Also, again, Tony has openly talked smack about MMA and I'd like to see an MMA fighter shut him down. I don't want to see someone strike with him. I want to see him grounded, pounded, elbowed, submitted, put to sleep, woke back up and resubmitted. I don't consider this a freak show fight signing but I will if he's fed some scrub who everyone knows will be stupid enough to stand with him. 

So if Captain America wants to be the first one to get a shot at him, so be it, I just hope he doesn't let some stray punch through and makes all of MMA look bad. Then you'll have to call in the big dogs like Brock, Mir or Cain. Too bad Mirko isn't up to form anymore. I'd love to see a K-1 King knock out a boxer with a head kick he has no idea how to defend against.


----------



## Fieos

UFC would be a little foolish to put Randy up against Toney honestly. I can see Randy wanting to cherry-pick another fight but I think they should give Toney to Pat Berry.

UFC gains little if Toney is defeated in the UFC. They give a lot of fuel to the fires of boxing if he were to come in and knock Couture out.


----------



## Mr. White

Unfortunatly there is a bit of a war going on between MMA and Boxing. Now, If Toney does well in "our" sport I can only imagine the verbal onslaught that awaits the MMA community from hard core Boxing fans.

"See! We told you. Just one old x-champ making fools of your MMA fighters. MMA is full of bar room brawlers with no real skill and cant compete with the _sweet science_."

If Toney Loses in convincing fasion than its no big deal. He is a boxer that dont check leg kicks and dont roll and zero sub deffense. Plenty of pro athletes have tried unsuccessfully to transition over and as expected dont do well. No big suprise. We dont gloat. We know how hard it is and the years of training in many disiplines it takes even just to compete. 

My question. If Toney does well will it help our sport or hinder it. 
The pros; More casual Boxing fans might tune in. More exposure for MMA. Potentialy higher PPV sales etc.
The cons; The gloating and shamefull ignorance that surrounds _most_ of the Boxing community. The tongue lashing Dana and the UFC might recieve from Boxing promoters and other Boxers (like floyd) in the aftermath.


----------



## Toroian

i would hope that more pro boxers would want to come over to mma if james does well. THis is mixed martial arts so ni would love more pro boxers in with a good mma base it is the future


----------



## 6toes

Prepare to be merged into the Toney thread :thumb02:

Personally I'd like to see Toney do well just so we could maybe see more boxers make the transition into MMA. Realistically, no he doesn't make a big splash and maybe comes away with a win or two against entry level UFC competition. 

Randy totally has the tools to defeat Toney with ease but there's always the chance Randy will come out and try to prove a point by standing with Toney, which would be a poor decision on his part.

Kimbo makes sense for Toney's first fight, if just to gauge both fighters a bit more before putting them up against the more legit fighters in their divisions (Toney at LHW and Kimbo at HW?) I'm sure a lot of fans will be calling "FREAK SHOW" but do you really think either fighter is ready to be in there with the REAL competition quite yet?:dunno:


----------



## War

> I'm sure a lot of fans will be calling "FREAK SHOW" but do you really think either fighter is ready to be in there with the REAL competition quite yet?


No and that's exactly my point. Because the man is a former world champion boxer he acts as if that makes him the most dangerous fighter ever in any discipline. I want him to see what it's like in there with guys who have given their all and proven themselves.

Hell at this point Roy Nelson taking him down and putting him in a crucifix for a twenty tap stoppage would be good for me. Anything to drive home the point that just because you were a champion and had fast hands with good angles doesn't mean you can come in and attempt to get yourself a paycheck off of the backs of the guys who really have dedicated themselves to this sport. 

Remember all the outrage that Brock Lesnar, a former _Wrassler_, was coming into the UFC. This was despite the fact that Lesnar actually had the background to make it. If people can lose their minds and scream till the cows come home that Lesner doesn't belong then I don't want a washed up boxer in the Octagon for a paycheck. I don't want guys stalking Dana White asking for a paycheck fight because he THINKS he's a name. Hell that Pete Rose Cricket analogy was spot on.

James Toney makes my MMA heart hurt.


----------



## MILFHunter947

Mr. White said:


> Unfortunatly there is a bit of a war going on between MMA and Boxing. Now, If Toney does well in "our" sport I can only imagine the verbal onslaught that awaits the MMA community from hard core Boxing fans.
> 
> "See! We told you. Just one old x-champ making fools of your MMA fighters. MMA is full of bar room brawlers with no real skill and cant compete with the _sweet science_."
> 
> If Toney Loses in convincing fasion than its no big deal. He is a boxer that dont check leg kicks and dont roll and zero sub deffense. Plenty of pro athletes have tried unsuccessfully to transition over and as expected dont do well. No big suprise. *We dont gloat*. We know how hard it is and the years of training in many disiplines it takes even just to compete.
> 
> My question. If Toney does well will it help our sport or hinder it.
> The pros; More casual Boxing fans might tune in. More exposure for MMA. Potentialy higher PPV sales etc.
> The cons; The gloating and shamefull ignorance that surrounds _most_ of the Boxing community. The tongue lashing Dana and the UFC might recieve from Boxing promoters and other Boxers (like floyd) in the aftermath.



dude, most of the hardcore mma fans gloat so much in such situations, and hypothetically if james toney does lose in a convincing fashion, the same gloating that you showed an example of from boxing fans ("See! We told you. Just one old x-champ making fools of your MMA fighters. MMA is full of bar room brawlers with no real skill and cant compete with the _sweet science_.") will be the same type of argument against boxing,like you said, mma takes many years of training and hard work, but instead of mma fans just saying it and being calm about it, they will instead bitch at the boxing fans in the same manner they would if toney were to win, by saying stuff like "See! We told you. Just one old x-champ making fools of your boxers!. MMA takes many years of practice and you cant just have a one trick pony walk in there because he cant last in MMA" same shit different toilet


im a HUGE MMA fan, and i know this isnt every MMA fan that does this, because ive seen many people not talk shit about boxers n such, and just dont gloat, but that whole holier-than-thou attitude just pisses me off


----------



## Rusko

You are not more of a man if you stand and trade, if you have better chance using other strategy just do it

i hated when sylvia fought mercer
how stupid of him


----------



## ZENKI1

I think this was a bitch move by Randy.. Seriously he scared of top talent now? Why backstep to a bout like this with Toney? A wrestler vs a ROOKIE mma fighter boxer.. LAME... I hope Toney knocks his fuckin block lose with the most brutal KO in mma EVER!


----------



## Jimdon

Indestructibl3 said:


> I'm sure Dana would be telling Randy "Dude, you're going to f8cking stand and bang with him" or something like that, otherwise they wouldn't give him the fight.
> 
> Thoughts?


This isn't the EliteXC forum


----------



## Mr. White

MILFHunter947 said:


> dude, most of the hardcore mma fans gloat so much in such situations, and hypothetically if james toney does lose in a convincing fashion, the same gloating that you showed an example of from boxing fans ("See! We told you. Just one old x-champ making fools of your MMA fighters. MMA is full of bar room brawlers with no real skill and cant compete with the _sweet science_.") will be the same type of argument against boxing,like you said, mma takes many years of training and hard work, but instead of mma fans just saying it and being calm about it, they will instead bitch at the boxing fans in the same manner they would if toney were to win, by saying stuff like "See! We told you. Just one old x-champ making fools of your boxers!. MMA takes many years of practice and you cant just have a one trick pony walk in there because he cant last in MMA" same shit different toilet
> 
> 
> im a HUGE MMA fan, and i know this isnt every MMA fan that does this, because ive seen many people not talk shit about boxers n such, and just dont gloat, but that whole holier-than-thou attitude just pisses me off


You could be right kind sir and I appreciate your opinion. However most HC MMA fans dont gloat for reasons I stated earlier. It seems the MMA community is on the other end of the cannon most of the time in this debate.


----------



## EastonAssassin

i think a fight with toney would be perfect for kimbo. it would give him a chance to test a little bit of the ground game and g-n-p he's been working on against a boxer that really can't put him in any danger once they hit the mat. plus if kimbo does win by g-n-p, armbar, or even a rnc, the casual fans would eat it up and i guarentee the next ppv or fight night kimbo is on the ratings would get a pretty good bump.


----------



## M_D

ZENKI1 said:


> I think this was a bitch move by Randy.. Seriously he scared of top talent now? Why backstep to a bout like this with Toney? A wrestler vs a ROOKIE mma fighter boxer.. LAME... I hope Toney knocks his fuckin block lose with the most brutal KO in mma EVER!


I really dont see it that way at all, randy has nothing left to prove to anyone except himself so he goes for the interesting and intriguing fights that he see's, and to fight a boxer of toney's level would be something randy would want. 

take this for example anderson silva champ that demolishes everyone yadda yadda, if a well known boxer with great boxing talent came into the ufc in his division Anderson would be in the fertita's office in a blink of an eye begging to make this fight happen. 

its not them fighting lesser talent its them fighting a fighter with a skillset they have not really fought before, or one that has not been on that level before


----------



## MILFHunter947

M_D said:


> I really dont see it that way at all, randy has nothing left to prove to anyone except himself so he goes for the interesting and intriguing fights that he see's, and to fight a boxer of toney's level would be something randy would want.
> 
> take this for example anderson silva champ that demolishes everyone yadda yadda, if a well known boxer with great boxing talent came into the ufc in his division Anderson would be in the fertita's office in a blink of an eye begging to make this fight happen.
> 
> its not them fighting lesser talent its them fighting a fighter with a skillset they have not really fought before, or one that has not been on that level before


Yea i agree, i do feel like this is something he wants to do for his legacy as opposed to something thatll move him up in the ranks because

1.) His time is almost up so its not like he's trynna be "the next great champion of the world".

2.) Like you said, hes trying to fight very exciting fights

3.) And in addition to number 2, hes really only fighting for fun now(see number 1)

so i dont really think this is in any way a bitch move by randy, i wouldnt mind seeing this fight


----------



## alizio

if Randy has no intention of throwing hands with Toney then this is the stupidest 1st fight the UFC could set up. Down the road if they want to shut Toney up then do it but for now i dont understand.

It WONT be exciting.

It WONT get the UFC more fans after how crappy it is.

Randy WONT stand with James IMO which is what we all want to see, at least for a fight or 2. Can James Toney crush MMA fighters standing?? You dont want to know??

i already know what will happen if Randy Couture takes down or clinches on the cage with James Toney. Waste of a fight and a chance to get new fans with this boring idea IMO


----------



## Indestructibl3

alizio said:


> if Randy has no intention of throwing hands with Toney then this is the stupidest 1st fight the UFC could set up. Down the road if they want to shut Toney up then do it but for now i dont understand.
> 
> It WONT be exciting.
> 
> It WONT get the UFC more fans after how crappy it is.
> 
> Randy WONT stand with James IMO which is what we all want to see, at least for a fight or 2. Can James Toney crush MMA fighters standing?? You dont want to know??
> 
> i already know what will happen if Randy Couture takes down or clinches on the cage with James Toney. Waste of a fight and a chance to get new fans with this boring idea IMO


Thankyou sir, this is EXACTLY the point I was trying to make.


----------



## Rusko

he doesnt have to stand up its mma


----------



## brief

nobody should stand with toney...it's just not smart


----------



## 6toes

alizio said:


> if Randy has no intention of throwing hands with Toney then this is the stupidest 1st fight the UFC could set up. Down the road if they want to shut Toney up then do it but for now i dont understand.
> 
> It WONT be exciting.
> 
> It WONT get the UFC more fans after how crappy it is.
> 
> Randy WONT stand with James IMO which is what we all want to see, at least for a fight or 2. Can James Toney crush MMA fighters standing?? You dont want to know??
> 
> i already know what will happen if Randy Couture takes down or clinches on the cage with James Toney. Waste of a fight and a chance to get new fans with this boring idea IMO


Yeah, I'm not of the crowd that wants Toney to get crushed. This whole Boxing vs. MMA argument seems pretty petty to me. I'm much more interested in seeing what a fighter with an interesting and intriguing background in another combat sport can bring to our sport. I want to see Toney's standup tested in the octagon. Sure, putting him in there with any decent grapplers at this point spells certain doom for Toney but I say for his first couple fights lets see what he can do against some talented kickboxers. Of course he might get tooled with kicks and whatnot but isn't that what we really want to find out? :dunno:

The Randy fight is interesting but not a good first fight IMO. If Toney wastes some bums and makes a splash in his first few fights, then it might be appropriate to throw Randy in there.

And for all of you MMA vs. Boxing enthusiasts, wouldn't Toney getting beat in the standup add way more fuel to your argument than him getting pinned against the cage for 3 rounds by Randy Couture?


----------



## M_D

wow I am the opposite of you guys in some sense, I want him to fight a pure mma artist and see if his boxing will transition well in mma, does he have enough TDD to keep teh fight standing so he can use his skill set, does he have teh skills to keep the fight where he wants the fight not because the other fighter wants to be there too. I dont want to see a boxing match if I did I would watch boxing I am watching mma to see ..mma. I dont mind if it turns into a stand up war im all for that but I want it to because toney had the skills to keep it there not because they fed him a guy that will fall into toney's strong point


----------



## BobbyCooper

brief said:


> nobody should stand with toney...it's just not smart


in a Boxing match yes! But not in an MMA fight where legs are a big part of striking.


----------



## alizio

ppl are SEVERELY overrating James Toney... he isnt a top fighter anymore, hasnt been for along time.

ppl are wrong about the MYTH of boxing gloves vs MMA gloves. Toney will get virtually NO EXTRA POWER from the lighter gloves and he cant KO ppl in boxing.....


as for ppl wondering can James Toney stop one of the best grapplers in the history of the sport from taking him down or clinching him up??

ask the question to yourself a few times. i think you know the answer. at least i hope you do.

I wanna see James fight some strikers 1st and if he impresses then we go from there.

i doubt he beats a competent kickboxer. let Pat Barry retire him with 4 leg kicks.


----------



## The Horticulturist

He's not that hated. Many young mma fans have no idea who he is or what he has done, and are simply ignorant to the situation. If you can't handle the trashtalk during the negotiation process, you are being overly sensitive. 

We will all get the chance to see whether he KO's someone or Flops around on his back like a fish. But for now, we just need to be patient and not scare him away


----------



## BobbyCooper

Well, considering that he is* NOT* an MMA fighter doesn't promote him to that list!


----------



## Damone

BobbyCooper said:


> Well, considering that he is* NOT* an MMA fighter doesn't promote him to that list!


He's an MMA fighter now.

He's one of the best athletes to step into the Octagon.

World class boxer.

Multiple champion.

Fought in several weight classes.

Future HOF'er.

Fought the best and was never finished.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Damone said:


> He's an MMA fighter now. *No he is still only a Boxer, just because he fights in an MMA organization doesn't mean he all over sudden is one!*
> 
> He's one of the best athletes to step into the Octagon. *Not even close!*
> 
> World class boxer. *Nope his time is long gone!*
> 
> Multiple champion. *True!*
> 
> Fought in several weight classes. *True!*
> 
> Future HOF'er.* In Boxing yes, well deserved!*
> 
> Fought the best and was never finished. *True!*


LOL Damone I love Fast Times at Richmond High the same way you do my friend  

PS: I still think Penn deserved an Oscar for this!


----------



## betii

*James Toney: "They gonna see kicks...my forte is slamming"*

New James Toney interview. This guy can talk. LOL.



> "If they think I'm going to go in there and get choked out or lay down and get my armbarred and all that, they got another thing coming to 'em, you know what I'm saying? Like I said, yeah, you're right, MMA is not like boxing because boxing is tougher, you know what I'm saying? I look at it like this, if a guy get in there and try to take me to the ground, he might see his head go into orbit. The head is going into orbit, for real. These guys in MMA, they good wrestlers and good grapplers and good kickers, like girls, but, you know, when it comes to throwing them blows, they ain't got a chance in hell, you know what I'm saying? Then they say I don't got a chance if I go to the floor. Hey, the only way you gonna know is if you tune in and watch. And that's what I want you to do. Pay your $54.95, come see James Toney. If you hate me, come see me try to get beat, if you love me, you enjoy the ride, have a good time and eat your popcorn."
> 
> "Hey, they gonna see a whole arsenal. They gonna see kicks, they gonna see experience and everything. And my forte right now is slamming."


----------



## Foose

Mr. Toney . . . if you happen to read this . . . here is a link for you:

www.hookedonphonics.com

My gift to you . . .


----------



## leifdawg

Did he just admit he's a girl?

In the first part he says kickers are like girls, but at the end he says he's going to kick....


----------



## mohod1982

I'm loving this!

I cant wait to see Toney kick some ass.


----------



## Grotty

James Toney vs Couture hahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaha etc etc etc


----------



## Tyson2011

no james...we dont know what you're sayin.


----------



## Jimdon

James Toney's Forte


----------



## Machida Karate

Dana White is going to have a whole Book of fighters that can kill this guy, its all a matter how he wants to use his 3 fight contract. 

Or was it more then 3???

Well either way i think Dana knowing that he has him for a couple a fights MIGHT give him a stand up guy, so that it could show everyone like US that this wasn't a freak show move. that he is SUPER Quick to mock other orginizations like SF with.


Or he might just shut him up quick.... It must feel good to have that kind of Power.... DAMN U DANA I WANT TO CHOOSE!!!

I say give him Randy and lets all share a good laugh together!


----------



## Rastaman

Give him Randy first, let's make it interesting (Randy will still dominate though). Then, once Toney has been demoralized, give him two extremely tough fighters. I know this will never happen, but I want to see Toney fight JDS and then Shane Carwin, two really good Heavyweight strikers. That is literally the only way I can see Toney winning a bout, if he is in a stand up war (which both JDS and Carwin excel at). In reality though, Toney is going to get hit by stuff he can't even pronounce. It's Gogoplata time.


----------



## leifdawg

If Dana had some balls he would let Toney fight Silva at the Abu Dhabi event. I think at this point in their respective careers Silva would have a decent chance at outboxing Toney.


----------



## mohod1982

Rastaman said:


> Give him Randy first, let's make it interesting (Randy will still dominate though). Then, once Toney has been demoralized, give him two extremely tough fighters. I know this will never happen, but I want to see Toney fight JDS and then Shane Carwin, two really good Heavyweight strikers. That is literally the only way I can see Toney winning a bout, if he is in a stand up war (which both JDS and Carwin excel at). In reality though, Toney is going to get hit by stuff he can't even pronounce. It's Gogoplata time.


You think Carwin can stand with Toney? I highly doubt it.
he doesnt use much kicks, he's mostly a heavy handed puncher and will easily get put down by Toney imo.


----------



## Lloyd

leifdawg said:


> If Dana had some balls he would let Toney fight Silva at the Abu Dhabi event. I think at this point in their respective careers Silva would have a decent chance at outboxing Toney.


I havnt seen Toney box in a year or so but i highly doubt Anderson Silva could outbox James. Silva could whip his ass but not outbox him. Not a chance!


----------



## TheGrizzlyBear

I can't wait to see Toney get the shit beat out of him, he's going to be put on his back and someone is going to rip his arm off... and he should get cut after he loses one or two fights, because he isn't going to adapt as well as Lesnar did coming off of one fight.


----------



## tlilly

Machida Karate said:


> Dana White is going to have a whole Book of fighters that can kill this guy, its all a matter how he wants to use his 3 fight contract.
> 
> Or was it more then 3???
> 
> Well either way i think Dana knowing that he has him for a couple a fights MIGHT give him a stand up guy, so that it could show everyone like US that this wasn't a freak show move. that he is SUPER Quick to mock other orginizations like SF with.
> 
> 
> Or he might just shut him up quick.... It must feel good to have that kind of Power.... DAMN U DANA I WANT TO CHOOSE!!!
> 
> I say give him Randy and lets all share a good laugh together!


I think he'll handle toney like he did with lesnar. Throw him in with a legit guy that will prob beat him. Then he can justify it by saying he didn't want to do a freak show or throw him in with a can. Toney will still have an unanswered questions. Then he'll match him up with a stand up guy and showcase him and declare him as the best fighter in ufc. He'll then set him up with a huge fight. A fight that even if he wins/lose, the winner will become "the best mma fighter in the world". That fighter will challenge for the belt... and be the best mma fighter in the universe.


----------



## Machida Karate

tlilly said:


> I think he'll handle toney like he did with lesnar. Throw him in with a legit guy that will prob beat him. Then he can justify it by saying he didn't want to do a freak show or throw him in with a can. Toney will still have an unanswered questions. Then he'll match him up with a stand up guy and showcase him and declare him as the best fighter in ufc. He'll then set him up with a huge fight. A fight that even if he wins/lose, the winner will become "the best mma fighter in the world". That fighter will challenge for the belt... and be the best mma fighter in the universe.



Lol... Hmm yeah but with Lesnar he lost to Mir, Made Heath look like a joke, took out Randy, which i saw as a handing over the Belt to the new Generation.

Then Man Handles the only guy that beat him.... And not ONLY that, but Brock was KILLING Mir there first fight, until he got sloppy with beating the piss out of him....

Something tells me Toney isn't going to have the same luck.......

Because Brock can take out Guys with a stand up game, and Obviously guys with really good ground game like Mir...

He was a baby in MMA and he STILL made Mir look like a joke on there first fight until he caught a amateur escape...

Dana MAY TRY to treat Toney like Lesnar, but ALL it takes is a semi Descent ground fighter and its all over...

Not even close to the same with Lesnar


----------



## ipbod

If Dana wants this guy to remain in the UFC he'll give him a tough fight but regardless of the outcome, will say Toney proved himself. Just like he did with Kimbo after Kimbo got made to look like an amateur, Dana gave him 10 times the respect he gave Nelson.


----------



## Machida Karate

ipbod said:


> If Dana wants this guy to remain in the UFC he'll give him a tough fight but regardless of the outcome, will say Toney proved himself. Just like he did with Kimbo after Kimbo got made to look like an amateur, Dana gave him 10 times the respect he gave Nelson.



Lol yeah and Dana freaked out when Kimbo was on the front cover of ESPN magazine which i also thought was stupid, but hearing all the shit talk, then singing him, and saying all this shit like he stepped up to fight in MMA, and that he respects him..... 

Soooo fighting for the other MMA organizations was not stepping up, and Dana went as far as saying, Kimbo was BAD for the sport, and that he is taking the sport a step back...

THEN HE SIGNS HIM? Oooo Dana u little weed lol


----------



## nathan.keith

"These guys in MMA, they good wrestlers and good grapplers and good kickers, like girls, but, you know, when it comes to throwing them blows, they ain't got a chance in hell, you know what I'm saying?"

This is an art! Martial ART! Sorry James that the UFC doesn't consist of a bunch of cave men who just want to beat each other in the face(boxers). Respect the art or you will get your arm broke. Good luck with your boxing when some artist has just taken you to the mat and is sitting on your chest, go ahead and throw some punches from the bottom... see how long you last..... you know what i'm saying?

boxing may be an art but it doesn't stand up to any other art on it's own. You have footwork, head movement, and upper body punching.


----------



## vandalian

I don't even know where to begin...


----------



## Machida Karate

nathan.keith said:


> "These guys in MMA, they good wrestlers and good grapplers and good kickers, like girls, but, you know, when it comes to throwing them blows, they ain't got a chance in hell, you know what I'm saying?"
> 
> This is an art! Martial ART! Sorry James that the UFC doesn't consist of a bunch of cave men who just want to beat each other in the face(boxers). Respect the art or you will get your arm broke. Good luck with your boxing when some artist has just taken you to the mat and is sitting on your chest, go ahead and throw some punches from the bottom... see how long you last..... you know what i'm saying?



Its True, i can already see Toney now... Ok Enough of training on the ground like Girls lets Box, because im going to knock this fool out anyway...

Then get a broken arm lol


----------



## UFC on VHS

Wow I will admit im getting kinda excited. I hope he gets slammed and dominated on the ground BIGTIME.

This should be fun who knows maybe he will knock a few guys out.


----------



## dave-stjohn

betii said:


> New James Toney interview. This guy can talk. LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot more in the full interview:
> 
> *JAMES TONEY: "THEY GONNA SEE A WHOLE ARSENAL...MY FORTE RIGHT NOW IS SLAMMING"*


The only thing Toney has slammed recently was at IHOP. I'm not sure what to make of this signing. Did Dana sign him because Dana's always been into boxing and the thought of being able to wash Toney's back during the post match shower? Or is this the shrewd Dana signing him so that he can prove once and for all that MMA is the harder skill to master? The answer to that ? will tell us who he's going to match Toney against. I certainly hope it's the latter, I just can't see Dana setting up some sort of Tim "the dumbass, I'm going to stand up against a boxer in a mma fight and get my ass beat" Sylvia/ Ray Mercer fight. So I'm really hoping they put him up against Cain Velasques as an interim fight before he fights whomever has the belt at the time.


----------



## Damone

mohod1982 said:


> I'm loving this!
> 
> I cant wait to see Toney kick some ass.


Hell yes.

Toney is going to side check kick a ho. All that shit.

Jardine's running his goblin looking ass, so you know what, let's have Toney knock his beard off!

James Toney doesn't give a shit about you. He just wants to punch people in the face, shoulder roll, stick his tongue out, flex, be undestructable, shout out Uncle Larry and then beat up an interviewer.

James Toney is fat because he eats his opponents souls.


----------



## Liddellianenko

Machida Karate said:


> Lol... Hmm yeah but with Lesnar he lost to Mir, Made Heath look like a joke, took out Randy, which i saw as a handing over the Belt to the new Generation.
> 
> Then Man Handles the only guy that beat him.... And not ONLY that, but Brock was KILLING Mir there first fight, until he got sloppy with beating the piss out of him....
> 
> Something tells me Toney isn't going to have the same luck.......
> 
> Because Brock can take out Guys with a stand up game, and Obviously guys with really good ground game like Mir...
> 
> He was a baby in MMA and he STILL made Mir look like a joke on there first fight until he caught a amateur escape...
> 
> Dana MAY TRY to treat Toney like Lesnar, but ALL it takes is a semi Descent ground fighter and its all over...
> 
> Not even close to the same with Lesnar


This ... it's easier for a good wrestler to learn some basic standup to get him by until he gets his takedown, than for a pure standup fighter to get enough TDD to stop an accomplished wrestler. I think Royce, Hughes etc. showed that already in the early days.


----------



## Machida Karate

Liddellianenko said:


> This ... it's easier for a good wrestler to learn some basic standup to get him by until he gets his takedown, than for a pure standup fighter to get enough TDD to stop an accomplished wrestler. I think Royce, Hughes etc. showed that already in the early days.


Agreed


----------



## Johnni G

Thats a big mouth


----------



## Rastaman

mohod1982 said:


> You think Carwin can stand with Toney? I highly doubt it.
> he doesnt use much kicks, he's mostly a heavy handed puncher and will easily get put down by Toney imo.


Well, I said that I'd like to see that fight between him and Carwin (if it were to happen), but I didn't really say I thought Carwin would win, I was just saying that it would be cool to see a heavy handed UFC heavyweight go against someone who excelled (and maybe still does) at having heavy hands. But either way, Toney's going to get smoked because everybody who fights him will know that they have a way, way higher probability of winning if they take him down then if they sit there and punch away.


----------



## LV 2 H8 U

Toney is a dick with ears...I so want him to be humiliated.


----------



## brief

I don't care how it goes, I think it's fun.


----------



## The Horticulturist

I'm 2x excited to see what happens now.

One of our sister sites; boxingforum.com, should be getting some traffic from our site by people who want to know what real trashtalk is going on over the next little while.


----------



## nathan.keith

I was excited to see what this boxer could do in mma. I am now realizing that this will be James Toney vs MMA and I already know the outcome. The sport has evolved past one demensional fighters testing their art against another one demensional fighter's art. I predict a submision but I'd love to see a head kick or a knee from the clinch finish him.


----------



## Mr. Sparkle

SJ said:


> I'm 2x excited to see what happens now.
> 
> One of our sister sites; boxingforum.com, should be getting some traffic from our site by people who want to know what real trashtalk is going on over the next little while.


Got a link to any toney threads? I had a peak at the site, but nothing jumped out.


----------



## Machida Karate

LV 2 H8 U said:


> Toney is a dick with ears...I so want him to be humiliated.


LOL! Yeah he is... But its all on purpose obviously... I mean there is a reason he said, If u hate me, come and see me get beat, and if u love me, blah blah blah....

Hes just trying to get people to have SOME KIND of an opinion about him, because if u DONT Love or HATE the guy, then your not going to care if he gets beat or wins...

Its ALLLLL Show... Its just personally annoying to listen too


----------



## hommage1985

nathan.keith said:


> I was excited to see what this boxer could do in mma. I am now realizing that this will be James Toney vs MMA and I already know the outcome. The sport has evolved past one demensional fighters testing their art against another one demensional fighter's art. I predict a submision but I'd love to see a head kick or a knee from the clinch finish him.


Yes it has eveolved past that stage. Which only helps stand up fighters. In the early UFC's the stand up fighters got destroyed by wrestlers or ju jitsu guys. Now the best fighters are the ones with the best stand up because the stand up fighters know: A. how to stop takedowns. B. How to fight on the ground.


----------



## Machida Karate

hommage1985 said:


> Yes it has eveolved past that stage. Which only helps stand up fighters. In the early UFC's the stand up fighters got destroyed by wrestlers or ju jitsu guys. Now the best fighters are the ones with the best stand up because the stand up fighters know: A. how to stop takedowns. B. How to fight on the ground.



James Toneys Future in UFC.........


----------



## 6toes

Machida Karate said:


> James Toneys Future in UFC.........


With what little bit of Kimbo's head you can see under that gut, one very well might mistake that for Toney under there...

...my god what a horrifying place to be...


----------



## Fieos

But for just a little bit... Kimbo gave Big Country a 70s bush.


----------



## daveh98

People are postulating what boxing fans are talking about regarding this fight and I will answer with a link to one of the biggest traffic boxing sites. First, they are hardly talking about this near the same frequency as on this forum. Secondly, as much as people on here think that boxers think he will mash the MMA fighter...that just isn't the case. Most of them think he will get killed. It isn't that mma> boxing..it is the recognition that:
1. Two different sports with completely different (and equally hard skillsets)
2. James toney is Old
3. James Toney is fat
4. James toney was not heavy handed at 160 and is not at 220
5. James toney does not have the style to fight MMA

These are all very valid points. Fighters that are young and brawl like David Haye, Manny Pacquaio, and other fighters have much better styles suited for MMA. Plus younger fighters can take a few of their peak years to develop groundgame and TDD. 

NONE of those factors are in Toney's favor and it is sad. He has not had a significant win in a long time and is defintely not at the "elite" of boxing anymore. But don't take my word for it..read for yourselves. Hopefully it casts TRUE boxing fans in better lights that what is posted here by some....
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=210209


----------



## Damone

Toney has better wrestling than Kimbo. Also, he knows side check kicks and all that shit.

But yes, being smothered by Roy's belly must be quite horrifying. Like getting face sat by a fatty girl.


----------



## LV 2 H8 U

daveh98 said:


> as much as people on here think that boxers think he will mash the MMA fighter...that just isn't the case. Most of them think he will get killed. It isn't that mma> boxing..it is the recognition that:
> 1. Two different sports with completely different (and equally hard skillsets)
> http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=210209


This ^^^^

Boxing is more focused and MMA has more breadth making it hard to be focused on any one style.

I just want Toney to realize it!

daveh98 repped +1


----------



## nathan.keith

All I can say is he better be working hard on his takedown defence.... and getting up off his back.... and submission defence.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

daveh98 said:


> People are postulating what boxing fans are talking about regarding this fight and I will answer with a link to one of the biggest traffic boxing sites. First, they are hardly talking about this near the same frequency as on this forum. Secondly, as much as people on here think that boxers think he will mash the MMA fighter...that just isn't the case. Most of them think he will get killed. It isn't that mma> boxing..it is the recognition that:
> 1. Two different sports with completely different (and equally hard skillsets)
> 2. James toney is Old
> 3. James Toney is fat
> 4. James toney was not heavy handed at 160 and is not at 220
> 5. James toney does not have the style to fight MMA
> 
> These are all very valid points. Fighters that are young and brawl like David Haye, Manny Pacquaio, and other fighters have much better styles suited for MMA. Plus younger fighters can take a few of their peak years to develop groundgame and TDD.
> 
> NONE of those factors are in Toney's favor and it is sad. He has not had a significant win in a long time and is defintely not at the "elite" of boxing anymore. But don't take my word for it..read for yourselves. Hopefully it casts TRUE boxing fans in better lights that what is posted here by some....
> http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=210209


Thank god, thank you. I don't understand the interest in him. He's just a pompous can. ANYONE even close to his weight class will be able to tear him a new asshole.


----------



## CharlieZ

if james toney connects flush on any UFC fighter he will knock them out


----------



## alizio

the boxing glove vs MMA glove stuff was proven as a myth along time ago. i come from boxing and used to believe the same thing but it translates into about the same power.

Toney had below average HW power as a boxer he will have below average HW power as a MMA fighter.

He will still have his chin tho, which is must admit, is legendary. If he can take all kindsa shots he definately has the boxing talent to drop ppl with combos but not one big shot.


----------



## Rusko

james toney is number 38 boxer at the moment pretty impressive


----------



## kgilstrap

*James Tony's first match in the UFC*

*Is it just me or am I the only one that wants to see a standup war with James Tony? * 
I want to give the guy a chance in his first fight and see what he's got. Let's give him some time to work on his ground game and spare him by not giving him a grappler for his first fight. I for one would love to see *Dos Santos vs Tony*

Anyone with me? :thumbsup:


----------



## DJ Syko

no i think everyone wants to see a stand up war with james toney, why wouldnt we?


----------



## kgilstrap

Seems like everyone keeps talking about throwing him a grappler to prove a point. It's common sense the guy will be easier to take down and submit than others at that level. I want to see some high lvl boxing vs high lvl world champion muay thai such as dos santos.


----------



## CharlieZ

james toney will get taken down and GNP'd if he doesnt land the first bomb


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Part of me wants to see a stand-up war, because stand-up wars are quite entertaining to watch. That just goes without saying. But with the amount of trash Toney has talked about Dana and MMA... well... as an MMA _fan_, I think I'd get a giddy little thrill out of seeing him eat a few elbows. It's a tough position for Dana. Feed someone you're probably paying a fair penny for to the lions and send a message to all of these loud mouthed boxers? Or build and market what could be a fairly profitable fighter by cherry picking opponents best suited to his strengths? I still think I'd like to see the former. If he says he can hang, then let him hang.


----------



## Ansem

Dos Santos will **** James on standup, but then again when its all done them boxers will just say he's out of his prime, it'd be great if the UFC can manage to pull a fight with Floyd or someone who's actually noteworthy...


----------



## kgilstrap

I just think feeding him to a grappler sends no message to boxers and the rest of the world other than what they arleady knew. I think feeding him to a guy like Dos Santos proves a bigger point if that's what your looking for.


----------



## Ansem

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/341425/muay_thai_vs_boxing/

This is what im expecting to see in his first fight


----------



## Spec0688

I would rather see Toney in a stand up fight then a ground n pound fight, Kongo vs Toney would be sick!


----------



## BobbyCooper

kgilstrap said:


> *Is it just me or am I the only one that wants to see a standup war with James Tony? *
> I want to give the guy a chance in his first fight and see what he's got. Let's give him some time to work on his ground game and spare him by not giving him a grappler for his first fight. I for one would love to see *Dos Santos vs Tony*
> 
> Anyone with me? :thumbsup:


well but JDS is a grappler^^ a pretty good one actually! He would easily sub somebody like Toney within the first round or GnP himself to a TKO stoppage. 

The only competitive fight would be Kimbo, Buentello and perhaps Kongo :confused02: even though I guess Kongo would easily take him down and end the fight there.


----------



## HexRei

As far as I know, Dana (and he) have talked about fighting at 205 (Cmon, Toney is like 5'9" and has made 205 or less many times in the past, he wouldn't have a chance in the giant weight range of the UFC HW division) so Dos Santos won't be an option. He will probably be set up with a striker at LHW, though, just to get him seated before he is fed a well-rounded fighter. They will likely they will set him up with a "legend", like Chuck, Randy, Tito, in his fights, the UFC needs PPV numbers bad. Since 107 their PPV sales have been shit.

Iole said recently that Kimbo is not expected to be an opponent but I doubt they would give him anyone else at HW for his first fight so smart money is LHW.


----------



## kgilstrap

BobbyCooper said:


> well but JDS is a grappler^^ a pretty good one actually! He would easily sub somebody like Toney within the first round or GnP himself to a TKO stoppage.


I understand he grapples and he trains with Big Nog on a daily basis so I bet his grappling is pretty damn good, but that's not what he's known for. I can't remember a fight where he attempted to take someone to the ground. :confused02: He's a muay thai heavyweight world champion, that's his true bread and butter and his natural instincts.


----------



## BobbyCooper

kgilstrap said:


> I understand he grapples and he trains with Big Nog on a daily basis so I bet his grappling is pretty damn good, but that's not what he's known for. I can't remember a fight where he attempted to take someone to the ground. :confused02: He's a muay thai heavyweight world champion, that's his true bread and butter and his natural instincts.


I know what you mean! Of course he relies on his strenght in every fight, wich is his great Boxing. But JDS is not a complete MMA striker. He is more a boxer he barely uses his legs or knees. 

And if he would have to fight a Professional Boxer with zero ground experience, don't you think a BJJ brown belt from the Black House would take him down and stop the fight with ease without throwing a punch??


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## UFCFAN89

*James Toney Wants Brock First*



> Boxing champ James Toney has been a hot topic for mixed martial arts fans from the moment his recent UFC signing was made official.
> 
> What seemed a mere curiosity as Toney followed UFC president Dana White around the country – begging for a shot in the octagon – quickly turned into a potential game-changing acquisition.
> 
> But is the UFC supporting a freak show? Or can Toney prove boxing's value in MMA?
> 
> And whom exactly is Toney going to fight?
> 
> On the newest edition of HDNet's "Inside MMA," the 41-year-old boxer said he doesn't want any pushover; in fact, he'd be comfortable starting with UFC heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar.
> 
> "I want Brock Lesnar," Toney said. "I'm the heavyweight champion of the world vs. the UFC champion. That'd be a hell of a match."
> 
> And if Lesnar's not in the cards, Toney said there's a few other guys he wouldn't mind facing.
> 
> "Randy Couture, Chuck Liddell, Tito Ortiz, or whatever his name is," Toney said. "It doesn't matter. I'm not a sideshow. This is the real deal here."
> 
> While Toney's signing has already been officially announced, when and where he'll debut for the organization has not. Liddell and Ortiz, opposing coaches on Spike TV's soon-to-debut "The Ultimate Fighter 11," are expected to face off this June, though Couture and Lesnar are currently without opponents.
> 
> Toney began boxing professionally in 1989 and fought as light as 155.5 pounds. As his career progressed, he fought as heavy as 237 pounds in 2006. In his most recent outing, a September 2009 TKO win over Matthew Greer, Toney weighed in at 217.5 pounds.
> 
> Toney insists he has the utmost respect for the sport of mixed martial arts, but he believes it's time MMA fighters develop more respect for boxing.
> 
> "I never said nothing less about the sport," Toney said. "But when you come disrespect the man who's 20 years deep and has won 12 different title in six different weight divisions and say MMA sport is better boxing, you got to be kidding me."


Link to the article here


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## Spec0688

pretty sure he said the same thing a month ago or so, Lesnar and Randy would most likely destroy him in the first round. and Chuck would prolly get KO'ed. lol


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## Syxx Paq

James Toney can go Screw Himself. You ARE a side show, you wouldnt have been hired if you werent.

btw isnt this a James toney thread? *Cue Mod Move to OFFICIAL JAMES TONEY THREAD*


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## alizio

he should fight DADA 5000, get it done Dana!!


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## Terror Kovenant

I'd love to see Lesnar pound his face worse than he did Mir.


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## steveo412

ha give him Lesnar it would be hilarious seeing him getting absolutely mauled and finished in probably 2 minutes from GnP. I am guessing he is going to be fighting Randy though. Its a big payday for Dana and you dont have to waste Lesnar and Tony will still get a similar but less brutal beating.


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## CharlieZ

in boxing toney would ko lesnar. but in MMA lesnar GNP's Him


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## CharlieZ

*Let James toney call Out Fedor!*

haha I wanna see that man. hes smarter then that fedor would F*CKING Kill Him


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## streetpunk08

Lesnar would probably be the worst possible matchup for Toney. Lesnar would bumrush Toney immediately to the ground and pound him out. If this fight lasted more than 90 seconds I would be shocked.


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## drey2k

Yea Fedor would embarrass him badly.


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## Life B Ez

Why are we feeding into this? All it does is let James Toney win, I don't want to see him in a cage at all. It's making the sport look like a joke, even if he gets tooled.


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## Curly

*Note to Mr. Toney--*

_Mr. Toney, as a former boxer myself, I count myself as one of your fans. Back in the 90's I loved watching you fight, you were always pretty game and you showed us several moments of greatness in each fight. You could never really put it all together and become "great" but you were enjoyable to watch because you had so much natural talent as a boxer. 

Enjoy your 15 minutes of MMA fame Mr. Toney, because when you step in there against an MMA guy you're going to get your ass handed you on a silver platter. These guys are not the jokes you old school boxers think they are. Boxers are masters of ONE aspect of fighting, MMA fighters are masters of them all. In the stand up game you will do well, but thats only a small part of todays fight game. Gone are the days when boxers were considered the toughest guys around, MMA has revolutionized the gladiator sports. 

It's minutes 13, your 15 minutes is almost up.

Curly_


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## steveo412

Life B Ez said:


> Why are we feeding into this? All it does is let James Toney win, I don't want to see him in a cage at all. It's making the sport look like a joke, even if he gets tooled.


Cmon man its not like its Jose Canseco in there, the guy is a former world Heavyweight Boxing Champion. He has more striking experience than anyone else in the UFC. His Ground Game may not be there but look at guys like Kongo and Houston Alexander. Toney in the UFC is not that big of a joke or an insult to the sport in anyway.


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## HexRei

kongo is actually a decent wrestler now, he held up pretty well against Herring for a guy that was supposed to be a one-dimensional kickboxer.

Houston Alexander is not a strong example for your argument, he has done terribly in the UFC, not even very well against fellow strikers and even worse against anyone who wanted to fight on the ground.


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## steveo412

Houston was still there thought. All I am saying is that people have had careers in the UFC with bad ground games. And I think Houston is a great example the guy is a fish on his back and the UFC gave him like 6 fights. I am not saying Toney deserves to be in the UFC without any previous MMA fights, but just that he isnt that big of a joke as many people are thinking. He is still a world class striker and has potential to pick up some victories in the Octogon. He is a bad matchup for some fighters in the UFC, but will most likely get mauled.

Him being there should not be compared to Jose or Herschel.


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## Life B Ez

steveo412 said:


> Cmon man its not like its Jose Canseco in there, the guy is a former world Heavyweight Boxing Champion. He has more striking experience than anyone else in the UFC. His Ground Game may not be there but look at guys like Kongo and Houston Alexander. Toney in the UFC is not that big of a joke or an insult to the sport in anyway.


If it was ten or fifteen years ago it wouldn't be a joke, but he's doing this just to mock the sport. If he gets taken down and subbed or pounded out, he'll say everyone was afraid to stand with him. If for some god awful reason someone stands with him and gets KTFO, boxing can go "look what a pathetic sport MMA is, a washed up boxer can beat guys easily." 

This is good for the UFC and the UFC only, MMA will suffer for this, it's just padding the UFC's pocket. 

Btw. He is a heavyweight champion right now, he holds one or two of the many heavyweight titles out there in boxing.


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## HexRei

steveo412 said:


> Houston was still there thought. All I am saying is that people have had careers in the UFC with bad ground games. And I think Houston is a great example the guy is a fish on his back and the UFC gave him like 6 fights. I am not saying Toney deserves to be in the UFC without any previous MMA fights, but just that he isnt that big of a joke as many people are thinking. He is still a world class striker and has potential to pick up some victories in the Octogon. He is a bad matchup for some fighters in the UFC, but will most likely get mauled.
> 
> Him being there should not be compared to Jose or Herschel.


Jose is obviously not in the business for anything more than a quick buck, he doesn't seem to have trained much and walked out with a baseball bat FFS, clearly capitalizing on his fame and not really taking the sport seriously. Herschel I think has just as much right to be in MMA as Toney. Herschel is a monster athlete and already a pretty strong wrestler/grappler. Personally if you stuck those two in the Octagon right now I think Walker has a great chance to put Toney on his back and keep him there the whole fight, GnPing either to finish or decision win.


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## steveo412

HexRei said:


> Jose is obviously not in the business for anything more than a quick buck, he doesn't seem to have trained much and walked out with a baseball bat FFS, clearly capitalizing on his fame and not really taking the sport seriously. Herschel I think has just as much right to be in MMA as Toney. Herschel is a monster athlete and already a pretty strong wrestler/grappler. Personally if you stuck those two in the Octagon right now I think Walker has a great chance to put Toney on his back and keep him there the whole fight, GnPing either to finish or decision win.


Ya Herschel didnt look to bad in his debut for a debut and probably could take Toney if he could avoid standup and get him down quickly. But that doesnt mean he would be more worthy to fight in the UFC than Toney with 0 fights on there records. And to be fair we have seen Walker beat up a can who would probably be laying on the ground with Toney above him also. But on Combat Sports experience Toney definetly more worthy of getting a UFC contract, hell he is more experienced than Lesnar was when he got signed.


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## HexRei

I don't think the transition is all that important in this case. In fact IMHO his boxing habits, at his age, are also going to be a detriment because boxing for MMA is simply not the same. He doesn't have enough time to re-learn how to box while defending takedowns, kicks, clinches, knees, even standing submissions. And I think we all know how the fight will go if he is taken down.

You're right that Walker fought a nobody but that's one more MMA fight than Toney has and he looked like he has developed a competent wrestling base which in most cases is going to trump a great boxing base, when the boxer has no takedown defense. 

Even Mercer got tapped by KIMBO of all people before one-shotting Sylvia, and that just says more about what Sylvia's like today (he has gotten knocked down in the first few seconds in his last three fights) than that a strong boxer can count on landing a KO shot before he gets taken down by a fighter with grappling skill.

Anyway I think they are both qualified to be competing in MMA but I think Toney is heading to the UFC too early and unless they baby him with opponents who will stand with him, he is going to have a short and embarrassing MMA career. IMHO it's clear that he is in this for the money like Canseco, he says the dumbest stuff about MMA fighters, acts completely ignorant and arrogant about the ground game and anything but boxing, and I think that's going to spell rapid epic failure for him.

Contrastingly, I think Herschel has a lot of respect and desire for the sport, and is in it to compete to the best of his ability, not to make payments on his condo. His attitude and approach to his training seem to be night and day from what Toney has been saying.


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## coldcall420

HexRei said:


> I don't think the transition is all that important in this case. In fact IMHO his boxing habits, at his age, are also going to be a detriment because boxing for MMA is simply not the same. He doesn't have enough time to re-learn how to box while defending takedowns, kicks, clinches, knees, even standing submissions. And I think we all know how the fight will go if he is taken down.
> 
> You're right that Walker fought a nobody but that's one more MMA fight than Toney has and he looked like he has developed a competent wrestling base which in most cases is going to trump a great boxing base, when the boxer has no takedown defense.
> 
> *Even Mercer got tapped by KIMBO of all people before one-shotting Sylvia, and that just says more about what Sylvia's like today (he has gotten knocked down in the first few seconds in his last three fights) than that a strong boxer can count on landing a KO shot before he gets taken down by a fighter with grappling skill.*
> 
> Anyway I think they are both qualified to be competing in MMA but I think Toney is heading to the UFC too early and unless they baby him with opponents who will stand with him, he is going to have a short and embarrassing MMA career. IMHO it's clear that he is in this for the money like Canseco, he says the dumbest stuff about MMA fighters, acts completely ignorant and arrogant about the ground game and anything but boxing, and I think that's going to spell rapid epic failure for him.
> 
> Contrastingly, I think Herschel has a lot of respect and desire for the sport, and is in it to compete to the best of his ability, not to make payments on his condo. His attitude and approach to his training seem to be night and day from what Toney has been saying.


 
Agreed....maybe Dana want to use Toney to prove that boxer's dont stand a chance in the UFC???


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## Squirrelfighter

betii said:


> LOL at Toney.


Well what does he expect...he's some barely-name boxer with no MMA experience. AND this mofo wants big money and an openened contract! Ha, what a chump. Hoebag is probably just looking for an out at this point. Hell if I was him...well nevermind, no one is as big of a douche-wibbler as him, but he really should bitch out now and avoid being embarassed by an MMA can.


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## HexRei

coldcall420 said:


> Agreed....maybe Dana want to use Toney to prove that boxer's dont stand a chance in the UFC???


that's my impression. slide him one or two gimme's, guys who either will stand with him, or simply don't have any the groundgame to present a threat. this will build him up and make sure the UFC gets their money's worth in terms of PPV #'s.

Then, set him up with a competent grappler with strong clinch and takedowns, and after Toney is finished on the ground, revel in a moral victory over boxing competition.


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## machidaisgod

I second Forrest, would love to see. BTW I think he would beat Forrest and it would be funny as hell.


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## grnlt

*James Toney is delusional...on Inside MMA*

I hate to even start a thread on this retard but after watching Inside MMA tonight its unreal. Bas Rutten was biting his lip the whole time like "Really James Toney, you really think that?" He said he is prepared or preparing for the ground game after 4 months haha, people train their whole life and still cant defend an all american college wrestler takedown let alone an olympic wrestler! he thinks he can. he also called Fedor one dimensional. Im not a Lesnar fan but he called out Lesnar and Anderson Silva...I realize he is promoting himself but he genuinely is that stupid I think he believes this stuff he was saying. Ray Mercer had much more respect for MMA than Toney. The reaosn being Mercer has actually competed some in MMA. I cant wait for Toney to get smashed. Did anyone else see this? It was ridiculous and kind of makes UFC look bad for right now for signing this guy


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## Blitzz

Who gives a damn about Toney. All he is doing is selling himself and everyone is buying into him.


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## grnlt

Blitzz said:


> Who gives a damn about Toney. All he is doing is selling himself and everyone is buying into him.


I know hes gonna get murdered but regardless of selling yourself or not thats just absurd


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## lazypug

*James Toney vs Cro Cop or Big Nog!!!!*

make it happen Dana!


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## dutch sauce

i would like crocop vs toney, could be exciting LHK FTW


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## T.Bone

Isn't he fighting at LHW?


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## Rauno

Cro Cop perhaps, would be nice to see Toney try to block that left leg.


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## Risto

Toney in an MMA fight... Hah, hah, hah...

Sure, they might feed him a tomato can or two, but any _*real*_ MMA fighter will tear him a new one.

This is a pathetic 'lets-get-the-boxing-fans-interested' attemp. Piss poor.

Anyway, I'll enjoy watching him having his ass handed to him on a plate. Fun times.


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## Rauno

Risto said:


> Toney in an MMA fight... Hah, hah, hah...
> 
> Sure, they might feed him a tomato can or two, but any _*real*_ MMA fighter will tear him a new one.
> 
> This is a pathetic 'lets-get-the-boxing-fans-interested' attemp. Piss poor.
> 
> Anyway, I'll enjoy watching him having his ass handed to him on a plate. Fun times.


Agreed. Sure he might have an edge standing up, but that's it. Once taken down, Toney is done.


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## BobbyCooper

Hey guys you know what I was asking myself lately is, why isn't Toney fighting one of the Klitschko brothers?? :confused02:

Instead of moving into a whole different Sport? I mean I don't think he has even a small chance against either one, but this fight could easily sell another stadium here in Germany or maybe even in the States. 

So why didn't this fight happen yet? Is it because of the promotions? and the 1.000.000 different boxing organizations, wich are ruining the Sport?


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## Mirage445

Jesus....79 pages...I'd say he'll make UFC some money...


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## Mr. Sparkle

BobbyCooper said:


> Hey guys you know what I was asking myself lately is, why isn't Toney fighting one of the Klitschko brothers?? :confused02:
> 
> Instead of moving into a whole different Sport? I mean I don't think he has even a small chance against either one, but this fight could easily sell another stadium here in Germany or maybe even in the States.
> 
> So why didn't this fight happen yet? Is it because of the promotions? and the 1.000.000 different boxing organizations, wich are ruining the Sport?


Well...the Klits are smart men and know that Toney would not pose much opposition (even less so than the rest of the recent incredibly lame HW field). Toney knows that a Kilt fight will not happen, so he is looking for his next meal. 

The only chance that Toney would have in an MMA match is if he fights another cross over boxer with the same limited skill set. 

His career in boxing is done and I can't wait till his flirtation with MMA is over. Honestly, there are guys all across the world who are only gym MMA fighters who would kill Toney.


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## BobbyCooper

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Well...the Klits are smart men and know that Toney would not pose much opposition (even less so than the rest of the recent incredibly lame HW field). Toney knows that a Kilt fight will not happen, so he is looking for his next meal.


Yea thats true! But why didn't they fought lets say 5-6-7 years ago :confused02: 

At the time when Wladimir fought Ray Mercer or when Vitali fought Lennox Lewis?? Around 2003-4-5? I guess that was around the time, when Toney already fought as a HW right??


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## Squirrelfighter

Damone said:


> RIP to a lot of guys in the UFC.
> 
> Toney is going to sprawl against top wrestlers and beat the shit out of them standing.


Huh?:confused02:
What makes you think some (douche) boxer could learn in only a few months how to sprawl against a MMA fighter. A casual fighter maybe, but guys who've done MMA for YEARS. His sprawls will look pitiful IMO if he even tries them. 

And standing, a skilled MMA fighter with great hands will go for a knockout and MAYBE get one, maybe eat one. But a skilled INTELLIGENT MMA fighter will leg kick him to death. I estimate maybe ten solid leg kicks, and he'll gimp around, and uh oh, no more sprawls...

Also, I noticed some of your other posts while reading through the thread(they were easy to spot via red as well as you seem to be the only person who thinks he'll do anything but lose). So here's my question...

Are you crazy or kidding? :dunno:


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## Mr. Sparkle

BobbyCooper said:


> Yea thats true! But why didn't they fought lets say 5-6-7 years ago :confused02:
> 
> At the time when Wladimir fought Ray Mercer or when Vitali fought Lennox Lewis?? Around 2003-4-5? I guess that was around the time, when Toney already fought as a HW right??


7 Years ago, Toney was just making the transition to HW. There were still bigger fights out there than Toney for the Klits. Regardless, it was pretty obvious that Toney could never hang with them (maybe Wlad on an off day). Just watch what happened to the far more mobile and equally as talented Chris Byrd against the Kilts.


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## BobbyCooper

Yea guess I am overestimating him way to much as a HW^^


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## alizio

Toney wont beat a top boxer nowadays nevermind a top MMA guy.


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## coldcall420

Mr. Sparkle said:


> 7 Years ago, Toney was just making the transition to HW. There were still bigger fights out there than Toney for the Klits. Regardless, it was pretty obvious that Toney could never hang with them (maybe Wlad on an off day). Just watch what happened to the far more mobile and equally as talented Chris Byrd against the Kilts.


 
ahem......taking the steroids to get to HW you mean....:thumbsup:


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## Mr. Sparkle

coldcall420 said:


> ahem......taking the steroids to get to HW you mean....:thumbsup:


Well, I don't know about that as he certainly isn't an advertisement for the type of body one would want from steroids. Not saying he didn't use them to get to HW, but the two times he was questioned about them (I think) was while he was already a HW and were for muscle tears (or something). May have even been topical steroids.

Anyway...I think, "two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickle, onion on a sesame seed bun" had more to do with it.


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## coldcall420

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Well, I don't know about that as he certainly isn't an advertisement for the type of body one would want from steroids. Not saying he didn't use them to get to HW, but the two times he was questioned about them (I think) was while he was already a HW and were for muscle tears (or something). May have even been topical steroids.
> 
> Anyway...I think, "two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickle, onion on a sesame seed bun" had more to do with it.


 
LMAO....repped...:thumb02:


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## Chileandude

I don't care about talk anymore, i just want to see him inside the Octagon.


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## Soojooko

Mr. Sparkle said:


> Anyway...I think, "two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickle, onion on a sesame seed bun" had more to do with it.


:thumb02:


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## Ape City

BobbyCooper said:


> Yea thats true! But why didn't they fought lets say 5-6-7 years ago :confused02:
> 
> At the time when Wladimir fought Ray Mercer or when Vitali fought Lennox Lewis?? Around 2003-4-5? I guess that was around the time, when Toney already fought as a HW right??


Toney has said that his own representation wouldn't evens et the fight up, or even try because they didn't believe in him. Apparently he has wanted the fight(s) but noone is willing to give him the chance.


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## BobbyCooper

Ape City said:


> Toney has said that his own representation wouldn't evens et the fight up, or even try because they didn't believe in him. Apparently he has wanted the fight(s) but noone is willing to give him the chance.


Oh alright! Thanks for the solution


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## Ape City

Really guys? /sigh


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## coldcall420

Ape City said:


> Really guys? /sigh


I think your right, he has been a joke towards the end of his boxing career....


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## VolcomX311

Maybe Anderson can finally have the "boxing" match he's dreamed of. Only it's with James Toney instead of Roy Jones, Jr.


----------



## joe davola

i had a dream he got knocked out last night which is weird because im pro-toney


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## punchbag

Good call, also maybe Kimbo,Mitrione, Carwin, Duffy type fighter as he could learn enough sub defence/anti-grappling Cro-cop style, to be able to defend enough to get straight back to feet and make it competitive. Ideally someone who could ko/ground and pound him, but not skilled in subs so it'll be a more equal fight, for him to take a fight with Randy even if it was sanctioned would be plain crazy, imo.


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## fujita

Watching james Toney on inside MMA the otherday was pretty worrying to be honest. He is far to confident, which makes me think he hasn't really bothered to work on his takedown defence, or even learnt to defend kicks. You could see ray mercer was trying to get him to understand that if he gets taken down he would be in trouble, but he didn't seem to register this. 

Personally I hope he does well in the UFC he was a great boxer, and if he can work on the other aspects of his mma game, his slick boxing style will give anyone problems.


----------



## FrankMir20

Toney was on Inside mma saying that Fedor was too one dimensional,,,

LMAO!


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## Soojooko

fujita said:


> Watching james Toney on inside MMA the otherday was pretty worrying to be honest. He is far to confident, which makes me think he hasn't really bothered to work on his takedown defence, or even learnt to defend kicks. You could see ray mercer was trying to get him to understand that if he gets taken down he would be in trouble, but he didn't seem to register this.
> 
> Personally I hope he does well in the UFC he was a great boxer, and if he can work on the other aspects of his mma game, his slick boxing style will give anyone problems.





FrankMir20 said:


> Toney was on Inside mma saying that Fedor was too one dimensional,,,
> 
> LMAO!


You guys actually understood him?! I barely got one in every 4 words. It was mainly a mumbling... something along the likes of, "hubba bubba hubbu nomsayin'?"


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## Mr. Sparkle

Soojooko said:


> You guys actually understood him?! I barely got one in every 4 words. It was mainly a mumbling... something along the likes of, "hubba bubba hubbu nomsayin'?"


Anyone got a link? I am working on a linguistics degree and my thesis is that James Toney could actually learn to speak English with the aid of an anti-slurring digital audio modulator that would help even him to hear the correct pronunciation of whatever the f**k it is he is trying to say.


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## fujita

Haha! true it was pretty hard to understand what he was saying at first, but when I got used to the way he speaks it wasn't so bad. The best Episode I've watched so far.

@ Frank Mir20..he's got to be kidding when he says that about fedor (not so much with Brock). Either he is just saying that to annoy fans/ fighters and get people talking about him more, or he's actaully crazy.


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