# Chael: The knee really hurt.



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

> Prior to UFC 148, Chael Sonnen was known as ‘The American Gangsta’ but following his loss to champion Anderson Silva they may have to change his name to the rumor killer.
> 
> Following a 2nd round TKO defeat at the hands of Silva, rumors began circulating almost immediately concerning Sonnen with tales of everything from his pending retirement to a new career blooming as a professional wrestler destined for the WWE.
> 
> ...



So he doesnt think the knee is illegal. He doesnt want to appeal the loss. He still would like another rematch. And it doesnt look like he is retiring.

And yeah the knee looked like it hurt..... alot.

Well to me those are all good things to hear.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

The only thing I took away from the fight is that Anderson is a dirty as hell fighter. Seriously, after that first round he took every opportunity he could to cheat. Anderson didn't care if that knee hit his opponents face, it just managed to not hit his face.

You could tell Rashad meant to throw the knee to the gut that finished Tito, but Andy literally flew into it, and you can't be 100% accurate when you fly through the air with a knee to a grounded opponent.

Good article, Chael Sonnen is so freakin manly, I hope you guys are taking note.


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## dlxrevolution (Jul 16, 2009)

I think that Chael never hated Anderson Silva and has always had respect for his style and credentials.


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## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

Sounds like Chael has bigger balls than most of his fans and his coaching staff.


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## rul3z (Jun 27, 2010)

SpoKen said:


> The only thing I took away from the fight is that Anderson is a dirty as hell fighter. Seriously, after that first round he took every opportunity he could to cheat. Anderson didn't care if that knee hit his opponents face, it just managed to not hit his face.


Anderson's knee is 100% accurate is his striking, this is the problem people don't notice to much. He ment that knee to the chest, he is no fool to loose his belt to the man who talked trash for more than 2 years, and then handles him the belt by DQ!!!

No way that would of happened.


BTW, if what Dana said is true? Then all Chael's trash talk was just to fire up the fight, and sell more.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

SpoKen said:


> *The only thing I took away from the fight is that Anderson is a dirty as hell fighter. Seriously, after that first round he took every opportunity he could to cheat. Anderson didn't care if that knee hit his opponents face, it just managed to not hit his face.*
> 
> You could tell Rashad meant to throw the knee to the gut that finished Tito, but Andy literally flew into it, and you can't be 100% accurate when you fly through the air with a knee to a grounded opponent.
> 
> Good article, Chael Sonnen is so freakin manly, I hope you guys are taking note.


Seriously? The most accurate striker in mma only landed it legally because of chance? It landed exactly where he meant it to. Why don't you take note of Sonnen's actions here and just admit that the knee was legal. This bs claim of him being a dirty fighter is just ******* stupid.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

deadmanshand said:


> Seriously? The most accurate striker in mma only landed it legally because of chance? It landed exactly where he meant it to. Why don't you take note of Sonnen's actions here and just admit that the knee was legal. This bs claim of him being a dirty fighter is just ******* stupid.


So him holding his shorts for a full 20 seconds....?


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Sonnen admitted to grabbing his shorts too and said that it had no impact on the fight.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

If Chael had continued to mouth-off on Silva after the fight then that would have just been annoying to hear, glad he's showing respect and taking the high-road. Didn't agree with some of Andersons tactics, but Chael done himself proud in the aftermath of a disappointing loss.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

I personally thought the knee was just thrown, and it looked like it deflected off chaels arms (which were covering his face) and hit him in the chest.

Im not saying it was deliberately aimed at the face but throwing a knee that hard at such a small target leaves little room for error.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Watch it in slow mo. He doesn't block it. It isn't deflected by anything. It's actually aimed downwards. If it missed it was going to hit lower and not higher.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

deadmanshand said:


> Sonnen admitted to grabbing his shorts too and said that it had no impact on the fight.


Ofcourse Sonnen is going to say it had no impact on the fight. If he goes around saying it impacted the fight then YOU and thousands like you are going to be talking bullshit about how Chael is making excuses and whatever else. Anybody can figure that one out.

Anderson grabbing the shorts helped him stop the takedown. The fight would have been different had Anderson not held the shorts in the second round and went down as he was supposed to. But he did hold the shorts and saved himself so we will never know what would have happened had Anderson not broke the rules. And Chael held the shorts back for a split second just to return the favor but since Anderson didnt go for the take down it didnt even matter it was more of the act of doing it back and letting him know wtf.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Chael is being very gracious. The Goat looks desperate in these



























I couldn't find any pics of Chael grabbing Siva's shorts. Surely there must be some :confused02:


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Actually I'm not going to argue with you guys. Chael's fans won't even listen to what he says happened in the fight. If your own idol can't convince you it was fair and square nothing I can say will.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

deadmanshand said:


> Sonnen admitted to grabbing his shorts too and said that it had no impact on the fight.





oldfan said:


> Chael is being very gracious. The Goat looks desperate in these
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This gif pisses me off so bad because Chael drops down for a double leg and the only thing that stops him from getting it is Anderson holding Chaels shorts so he cant break that grib and get his arms all the way around the legs. And not only does he stop it right there but then even 2 seconds later when Chael tries tossing him to the left he cant because his right arm cant reach all the way around because Anderson is holding the shorts some more.

Its irritating to look at.... And ofcourse Anderson fans are sweeping it under the rug. Atleast be honest about it.

Anderson was better and finished the fight in amazing fashion. I have no problem being honest about that. But i also cant avoid the shorts grabbing stopping the takedown/




deadmanshand said:


> Actually I'm not going to argue with you guys. Chael's fans won't even listen to what he says happened in the fight. If your own idol can't convince you it was fair and square nothing I can say will.


Ofcourse he is going to say that. Otherwise youl get comments like "Chael is just being whiny bitch" etc. Or "Dude u do TRT".

So Sonnen is being a man and just giving props were props is due instead of opening up a different can of worms that quiet frankly wont get him anywhere.

This is common in the human race.

The fans arnt in Sonnens situation so they can tell the truth without facing the backlash.

*If a GIF showing Anderson doing it cant convince you then nothing will. *

Jesus crist i just noticed when they are separated from the fence Anderson is still holding Chaels shorts lmao. It prevents him from dropping and taking a decent double leg and he doesnt even let him move back. hahahha holy ****. That so horrible.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Anderson wiped vaseline on himself. Check.
Anderson grabbed Chael's shorts. Check.
Anderson launched a near perfect knee to Chael's chest. Check. (Replays, gifs have clearly shown that it was perfectly legal.) 

Chael grabbed Anderson's shorts. Check.
Chael threw an elbow near the back of Anderson's head. Check.
Chael took PEDs. Check. 

At the end of the day are you guys really stating that the above was conducive to the outcome. I'd have to say Kongo kneeing his opponents in the gonadz is far dirtier or Josh poking everyones' eyes out. Even though it's legal, Hendo covers his opponents mouth when he's in the top position. Fedor grabbed the ropes to break his fall in one of his fights. Sakaraba tapped twice (not three times) to fake out the Gracies. Bisping clearly kneed Jorge Riviera when he was down and spat at his corner. JBJ sticks his fingers out in his opponents eyes and face. List goes on. 

Not to justify it, but every fighter dabbles in the grey area once in awhile. But I think it's a very minor element considering. PEDs is something else...

All in all I think it's just much ado about nothing...

Fight is over...it's time for all of us to move on and join the BBQ with Chael and Anderson...lolz!


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

I never noticed it so much in the fight, seeing it a second time it does come across as blatant desperation on Silva's part.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

No_Mercy said:


> Anderson wiped vaseline on himself. Check.
> Anderson grabbed Chael's shorts. Check.
> Anderson launched a near perfect knee to Chael's chest. Check. (Replays, gifs have clearly shown that it was perfectly legal.)
> 
> ...


Since you checked it off can you find me a gif of it??? Id like to compare Chaels shorts grabbing to Anderson. (Chael grabbing shorts)

And nice try on the elbow thing just to even the numbers haha.

And we are moved on. But moving on doesnt mean pretending something never happened. Moving on means realizing/admitting what happened and the effects it had on the situation. And then accepting it and moving on. If anything i noticed Anderson Silva fans are the ones in denial about it and not moved on.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Grabbing the shorts there was a crafty veteran move.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> Grabbing the shorts there was a crafty veteran move.


It certainly was. If you aint cheating you aint playing to win. 
It was a Risk/Reward move and it paid off for Anderson. I dont blame him for doing it. That said i cant pretend it didnt happen just because i dont blame Anderson for doing it.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Yeah this is just the way it is in all sports. That isn't enough to call someone dirty everyone is doing small things that bend and break the rules. Dirty fighters are the ones who do the major stuff as though it were perfectly normal like kicking and kneeing downed opponents in the head, repeatedly low blowing guys, or eye gouging.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Silva did some dirty shit. I accept that. Many fighters have done dodgy bollocks in the cage. If Sonnen had an illegal opportunity to escape from Silva at the end of the fight, out of sight of the ref? Who here thinks he wouldn't have taken advantage of it?

What Silva did affected the fight. Who knows what might have happened if he hadn't had grabbed them. But it wasn't an isolated incident that turned the whole fight. Silva was clearly coming into form during the second. His timing was spot on and he was starting to have some success standing. Far more success then at any point in the first fight. If the short grab hadn't had happened, from what I had seen up to then, my money would have still been on Silva eventually knocking him out.

The "who knows what might have happened" argument is ridiculous. Otherwise you have to ask what might have happened if Sonnens testosterone was at normal levels for the first fight?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> Yeah this is just the way it is in all sports. That isn't enough to call someone dirty everyone is doing small things that bend and break the rules. Dirty fighters are the ones who do the major stuff as though it were perfectly normal like kicking and kneeing downed opponents in the head, repeatedly low blowing guys, or eye gouging.


Yeah i dont consider Anderson a dirty fighter. He did what he had to do. There was alot riding on that fight so if you can get away with it then why not. Its on the REF to see it and handle it. Would your rather have Chael take you down and be on top of you OR would you rather hold on to the shorts and have the ref maybe warn you. I would choose number 2 every day of the week every minute of the day. If i was Anderson i wouldnt let Chael beat me no matter what i had to do tbh. If i was fighting a friend i would probably stick to the rules strictly though.

+

I dont see him doing that stuff in alot of his fights. This is the first time iv actually seen him do that. The greasing stuff i know he has done before but that doesnt impact the fight imo so its not worth talking about.


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## JWP (Jun 4, 2007)

SpoKen said:


> The only thing I took away from the fight is that Anderson is a dirty as hell fighter. Seriously, after that first round he took every opportunity he could to cheat. Anderson didn't care if that knee hit his opponents face, it just managed to not hit his face.
> 
> You could tell Rashad meant to throw the knee to the gut that finished Tito, but Andy literally flew into it, and you can't be 100% accurate when you fly through the air with a knee to a grounded opponent.
> 
> Good article, Chael Sonnen is so freakin manly, I hope you guys are taking note.




wow surprised to see a post like this from an admin

so he held his shorts woopdy doo. you call anderson a cheat and chael manly when chael 'actually' cheated and behaves like a child leading up to the fight

maybe its just my pov


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

JWP said:


> wow surprised to see a post like this from an admin
> 
> so he held his shorts woopdy doo. you call anderson a cheat and chael manly when chael 'actually' cheated and behaves like a child leading up to the fight
> 
> maybe its just my pov


What did Chael do this fight???


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> What did Chael do this fight???


He continued to pump testosterone via a loophole in the system, without undergoing any random testing to know what his levels during training were, and even on fight night "legally" pump up to 6 times the normal levels under the current absurd rules. 

To even the playing field Anderson used more minor loopholes in the system as well. Rules only have a possible point deduction up to referee discretion for shorts grab, and the referee didn't deduct them. Even if he did, the points wouldn't have mattered. End of story. 

People can't just conveniently overlook a major rule exploitation for the guy they worship and complain about the other minor one from the other guy. Just because it gives them some sort of solace for their butthurt and lets people delude themselves into thinking their boy wouldn't have had his ass whupped. 

Either both men fight honorably, or both toss away the honor and turn it into a gutter fight as much as they can get away with. 

You can't have one guy walking a slow ten paces with a gun while the other is willing to turn at the third pace and blast away. If that's gonna happen, then you just gotta do it the wild west way and draw.


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## funkasaurus (Jan 29, 2012)

Why is such a big deal being made out of grabbing his shorts? I hear "Don't grab his shorts" or "Don't grab the fence" once ever single event. Not a big deal. If he continued to do it, he'd have been deducted a point.


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

LizaG said:


> If Chael had continued to mouth-off on Silva after the fight then that would have just been annoying to hear, glad he's showing respect and taking the high-road. Didn't agree with some of Andersons tactics, but Chael done himself proud in the aftermath of a disappointing loss.


I so agree with you on most of what you write on this forum. Although I never doubted Sonnen was a much better man than his "persona". This is actually someone I'd love to meet and have a drink and a chat with.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> He continued to pump testosterone via a loophole in the system, without undergoing any random testing to know what his levels during training were, and even on fight night "legally" pump up to 6 times the normal levels under the current absurd rules.
> 
> To even the playing field Anderson used more minor loopholes in the system as well. Rules only have a possible point deduction up to referee discretion for shorts grab, and the referee didn't deduct them. Even if he did, the points wouldn't have mattered. End of story.
> 
> ...



So he used a LEGAL medical substance to battle a condition called hypogonadism. He also mentioned he gets tested every 2 weeks and only takes the medicine as instructed. And he got tested this fight.



> *The Nevada State Athletic Commission stated that The license comes with the conditions that Sonnen undergoes multiple pre/post fight blood tests* but he also has to present his exemption papers he received for his post-suspension bouts in Illinois and Texas.



And it isnt a "loophole" in the system. Its a RULE in the system. You can go to the NSAC website and click FAQ and it will give you instructions and paperwork to fill out for necessary Testosterone treatment exemption. It even needs your medical information.

Now can i ask where your source is that he never gets tested?? Because you MUST have one to make such an accusation.

So everything you just said is complete nonsense. You can use those accusations on his last fight BUT this fight that doesn't apply. 

Chael didnt cheat. Plain and simple. And that is FACT unless results come out that his testosterone is too high.

You should try and get a GIF/PIC of Chaels Testosterone being too high this training camp as proof. Same as the proof of Anderson cheating thats posted in this very thread.



And on your other part.
Who in the world overlooks it??? Nobody overlooks it. People admit to chael taking trt treatment and to his testosterone being too high his last fight. Now unless the same proof shows up this fight its impossible to make that claim. So nobody overlooks it.

If something is being overlooked it was Andersons cheating to avoid being taken down. Even though there are many pictures and Gifs of it. You would rather avoid it or make excuses for it instead of just admitting to what he did. Its crazy.




funkasaurus said:


> Why is such a big deal being made out of grabbing his shorts? I hear "Don't grab his shorts" or "Don't grab the fence" once ever single event. Not a big deal. If he continued to do it, he'd have been deducted a point.


Well its because he did continue to do it. And because it changed the way the fight went. Im not saying that Chael would have won... FAR FROM IT. But Chael would have gotten him down in round 2 and then never thrown that spinning backfist. Now could Anderson have won in rounds 3,4, or 5?? HELL YEA. Probably even likely. But it changed the path of the fight and now we will never know what that other path (With Chael taking Anderson down in rd 2) would have looked like. He got the win he got because of the rule he broke (And by "the win" im talking about the exact time he won/how/etc). Who knows we might have gotten an even more epic KO win in round 5 or something by Anderson. But we just wont ever know. And thats probably the part that stinks the most.

That said 
As i mentioned earlier i dont blame Anderson for doing it. He chose a Reward/Risk move and it paid off. He would rather accept being warned by the ref OR having a point taken away to avoid the takedown knowing every chance he is standing he can get the KO. Then being taken down and risk loosing another round.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> So he used a LEGAL medical substance to battle a condition called hypogonadism. He also mentioned he gets tested every 2 weeks and only takes the medicine as instructed. And he got tested this fight.
> 
> Now can i ask where your source is that he never gets tested?? Because you MUST have one to make such an accusation.
> 
> ...


Where is YOUR source that mentions that Chael gets tested every two weeks? Without any proof to the contrary, the default practice by the commission is no random testing, so the burden of proof lies on you to prove otherwise.

Oh I see, Chael himself is your source, how reliable. The same guy who claims he's never lost. 

Even if he does get tested every two weeks, it's meaningless to have your pet quack do the testing, as far as I know the commission isn't doing any random testing on him in between fights. Prove me wrong, post your source that THE COMMISSION is testing him between fights or during camp. He got tested right before the fight, but that is also fairly meaningless and doesn't catch him cycling between fights.

As far as the rules go it is not a loophole what anderson did either. The RULES state that a fighter can be warned for shorts grabbing, or there MAY be a point deduction for repeated offenses which didn't happen. That's it. The same way the rules state that Chael MAY be random tested for licensing but he wasn't. 

But situations were handled by the same set of rules by the same people who decide how to apply them. BOTH sets of rules are lax.

And if you really believe chael's sob story of actually never going through puberty and having the hormone levels of gina carano, all while packing on muscle and smashing NCAA caliber wrestlers, I have a bridge to sell you in Manhattan.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> Where is YOUR source that mentions that Chael gets tested every two weeks? Without any proof to the contrary, the default practice by the commission is no random testing, so the burden of proof lies on you to prove otherwise.
> 
> Oh I see, Chael himself is your source, how reliable. The same guy who claims he's never lost.
> 
> ...


Go read my post again. I added some stuff for you because your response is too predictable.
And even if Chael WAS the only source. Thats still better then your source which is NO source. Your basing EVERYTHING because of his last fight with Anderson. Its complete nonsense.

And BTW. If your claiming a man never gets tested then its on YOU to proof he doesn't. Not the other way around. Not every single time a person goes and gets tested will it be on the internet. Plus the NSAC said they will test him several times before the fight and after it in the hearing. 

Chael didnt Cheat this fight and thats fact. Without any evidence against him you cant claim other wise.

Go take it up with the NSAC if you got a problem. Dont accuse Chael of cheating while following the rules.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Sonnens been more impressive in defeat than most fighters manage in victory.

He sets an excellent example for the rest of us to aspire to.

:thumbsup:


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Hendo complained about how they don't actually do testing during camp for guys with TRT exemptions during the Nate scandal. I think it depends on what state you apply for it in as well. I believe Nate applied in New Jersey and their policy is that you have your levels tested multiple times for a certain length of time before you are fully approved. Either way Chael's story is clearly bullshit and he had been using steroids for a while. You don't get those kinds of levels with legitimate TRT and you don't get to the levels of amateur athletics he did if you never went through puberty.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> Hendo complained about how they don't actually do testing during camp for guys with TRT exemptions during the Nate scandal. I think it depends on what state you apply for it in as well. I believe Nate applied in New Jersey and their policy is that you have your levels tested multiple times for a certain length of time before you are fully approved.


During Chael sonnens hearing to get a TRT exemption (The hearing wasnt until may 21st btw). They told him he will be Blood tested several times before and after the fight on July 7th. And the next morning he has to take a blood test on his own time and dime and submit it. He also had to submit his medical records from the Stann/Bisping fights. 

I do have a question though. If your testosterone is extremely high from abusing the testosterone injections. How long does it take to go back to normal??? Is it the same time-frame as roids?


Anyway i have to go to bed. Its 5am... i was just finishing some of my nightly online nerd duties (Real time war games) before i go to bed. (Gotta get that 13 hour building to start building itself while i sleep)


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Go read my post again. I added some stuff for you because your response is too predictable.
> And even if Chael WAS the only source. Thats still better then your source which is NO source. Your basing EVERYTHING because of his last fight with Anderson. Its complete nonsense.
> 
> And BTW. If your claiming a man never gets tested then its on YOU to proof he doesn't. Not the other way around. Not every single time a person goes and gets tested will it be on the internet. Plus the NSAC said they will test him several times before the fight and after it in the hearing.
> ...


What about the fact that Sonnens doctor said in an interview after the last fight that Sonnen wasn't under normal teststeron levels, just slightly in the lower parts of normal. 

Also the fact that anyone can hire a doctor to say that they need TRT as we have seen lately in the sport. As soon as your testo ratio is screwed up, youre on TRT because you have hypogonadism. Buffed guys in their 30s. It's a loophole, thinkin anything else would be naive.
As if Overeem and Nate Marquart need TRT. Same with Sonnen.



> I do have a question though. If your testosterone is extremely high from abusing the testosterone injections. How long does it take to go back to normal??? Is it the same time-frame as roids?


I totally depends what roids or form of TRT you are using. AAS are bound by esters that control how fast the substances are released in your body, there is everything from 1 day to several months. These things can be extremely tailor made. When it comes to TRT (standard pharmacy legal stuff) if you use injectables, the testosteron is usually bound to a very slow ester such as undecanoate ester, so it would be detectable a long time after, but trust me, all these things can be manipulated & can be obtained in other formats both legally and black market. And the cream/patch form of TRT is short-acting and needs to be applied more often.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

mmaswe82 said:


> *What about the fact that Sonnens doctor said in an interview after the last fight that Sonnen wasn't under normal teststeron levels, just slightly in the lower parts of normal*.
> 
> Also the fact that anyone can hire a doctor to say that they need TRT as we have seen lately in the sport. As soon as your testo ratio is screwed up, youre on TRT because you have hypogonadism. Buffed guys in their 30s. It's a loophole, thinkin anything else would be naive.
> As if Overeem and Nate Marquart need TRT. Same with Sonnen.


What about it???

And do you have any proof of Chael hiring a doctor to say that for him??

If you want to claim that Chael is cheating this fight then you have to PROVE that. So far Chael is passing all the tests and is doing everything within the rules of the NSAC. So strictly speaking in this fight he is NOT cheating.

Now if he fails a test in the near future thats another thing. That would mean he cheated in this fight too.



Now Anyway. Quit distracting me! I need to sleep ) :
But if i see a post and dont respond its like an itch i cant scratch haha.
Soo good night im shutting this comp off before i see something else XD


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

The knee he took made this magazine cover instantly legendary!


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

SpoKen said:


> The only thing I took away from the fight is that Anderson is a dirty as hell fighter. Seriously, after that first round he took every opportunity he could to cheat. Anderson didn't care if that knee hit his opponents face, it just managed to not hit his face.
> 
> You could tell Rashad meant to throw the knee to the gut that finished Tito, but Andy literally flew into it, and you can't be 100% accurate when you fly through the air with a knee to a grounded opponent.
> 
> Good article, Chael Sonnen is so freakin manly, I hope you guys are taking note.


I would definitely say Anderson knew where that knee was going. He is an insanely accurate striker and I highly doubt he would sacrifice his belt to land a knee on Sonnen.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

What a stupid argument in the first place. How can it hold any weight?

"Anderson Silva tried to knee Chael in the face". But he didn't...what is the issue?


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Hey, and if Jose Aldo didn't grab the cage he would have never knocked out Chad Mendes.


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## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

Purgetheweak said:


> Sounds like Chael has bigger balls than most of his fans and his coaching staff.


Considering the whole TRT debacle, this made me laugh.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> *So he doesnt think the knee is illegal.* He doesnt want to appeal the loss. He still would like another rematch. And it doesnt look like he is retiring.
> 
> And yeah the knee looked like it hurt..... alot.
> 
> Well to me those are all good things to hear.


Actually he doesn't really say that it wasn't illegal. He just says that the referee didn't see it as illegal. That's a nice way of saying "I accept it", but in the meantime implying that it's only the referee's fault for not seeing that it was illegal. Why else would he say that referee calls work "in both ways"¿ That's rhetoric.

He says:


> “The knee really hurt, all those shots really hurt, but here’s the reality – we don’t do instant replay in this sport and we shouldn’t. *It comes down to a judgment call,*” Sonnen said. “*Wherever the referee says the knee landed officially, that’s where the knee landed.* That’s an excellent official as they all are, he made his call and that’s the way it goes, and I will never complain or look back.”
> 
> [...]
> 
> “Let’s make sure we don’t call it illegal, once again* the referee’s judgment is what stands. I trust in that and it works both ways.* I’ve thrown knees before, the referee makes his decision, that is the decision and we live with it,” said Sonnen.





Killstarz said:


> I personally thought the knee was just thrown, and it looked like it deflected off chaels arms (which were covering his face) and hit him in the chest.
> 
> Im not saying it was deliberately aimed at the face but throwing a knee that hard at such a small target leaves little room for error.


Small target¿ The torso is biggest target of the human body there is. Sonnen sat immobile(!) on the ground, doing _nothing_(!) and the knee went never higher then the chest on its way. It was not deflected by the arms, but aimed at the chest and it hit the chest. You can watch that particular scene in slo-mo and you will perfectly see it.



SideWays222 said:


> Ofcourse Sonnen is going to say it had no impact on the fight. If he goes around saying it impacted the fight then YOU and thousands like you are going to be talking bullshit about how Chael is making excuses and whatever else. Anybody can figure that one out.
> 
> Anderson grabbing the shorts helped him stop the takedown. The fight would have been different had Anderson not held the shorts in the second round and went down as he was supposed to. But he did hold the shorts and saved himself so we will never know what would have happened had Anderson not broke the rules. And Chael held the shorts back for a split second just to return the favor but since Anderson didnt go for the take down it didnt even matter it was more of the act of doing it back and letting him know wtf.


I certainly didn't like the short grabbing and thought that it was close to being point deduction worthy. But he also stuffed all other TD attempts in that round without any short grabbing. And as you said elsewere, it didn't really make a difference in the outcome of the fight anyways.



SideWays222 said:


> If something is being overlooked it was Andersons cheating to avoid being taken down. Even though there are many pictures and Gifs of it. You would rather avoid it or make excuses for it instead of just admitting to what he did. Its crazy.
> 
> [...]
> 
> ...


Actually, as far as I've seen it, he didn't really "continue" it, as he wasn't really doing it before the first warning came. As I've seen it, he started to grab not the shorts but the leg for a single leg. Unfortunatly we don't get replays of that from different angles like from the finnishing scene, so I'm not 100% sure on that, but even Rogan commentates on wondering that Silva holds one of Sonnen's legs (attempting a single leg).


----------



## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Hey, and if Jose Aldo didn't grab the cage he would have never knocked out Chad Mendes.


Thought the same thing myself. But the more you say it, the closer we are to "All Brazillians are cheats!" being posted lmao.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

still no pics of Sonnen grabbing shorts? He's such a liar.

Lets move on.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I know there are fans that Sonnen will never win, they took his trash talk way to serious. I'm sorry, but as far as I am concerned he is one of the most legitimate men in the sport. I have never heard him offer up one excuse for why he lost in either fight. Sure he made some hilarious claims that we all knew were BS, but he never offered an excuse and he isn't now. 

I hope he doesn't retire, I'd like to see him around a little longer.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> Go read my post again. I added some stuff for you because your response is too predictable.
> And even if Chael WAS the only source. Thats still better then your source which is NO source. Your basing EVERYTHING because of his last fight with Anderson. Its complete nonsense.
> 
> And BTW. If your claiming a man never gets tested then its on YOU to proof he doesn't. Not the other way around. Not every single time a person goes and gets tested will it be on the internet. Plus the NSAC said they will test him several times before the fight and after it in the hearing.
> ...


Well you're welcome to take the vaseline and shorts issue to the NSAC as well then . The ref made a call so Anderson has nothing more to answer for.


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## Stockton902 (Jul 7, 2012)

*Dana would be stupid to get rid of Chael, he has ratings written all over him.*


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

SpoKen said:


> So him holding his shorts for a full 20 seconds....?


Stop stretching the truth to fit your arguments. 20 full seconds? Get off it , you sound like a little butt hurt fan. If he was aiming at his face he would have hit his face. Sorry but a striekr of his calibre doesn't miss that knee LOL










If he aimed for the face it would have landed


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Good guy Sonnen...


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Sousa said:


> Stop stretching the truth to fit your arguments. 20 full seconds? Get off it , you sound like a little butt hurt fan.












hahahaha you're right. it was only 17 seconds. stupid Sonnen fans...




The truth is, no one in their right mind can blame Silva for cheating when locked in a cage with CHAEL P. SONNEN


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

So Silva blatantly cheating and not getting caught by the referee is totally fine with Silva's fans.

Yet they talk about how Sonnen is a bloody cheater who uses TRT.

Yay! One point to Silva's fans for logic!


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

OHKO said:


> So Silva blatantly cheating and not getting caught by the referee is totally fine with Silva's fans.
> 
> Yet they talk about how Sonnen is a bloody cheater who uses TRT.
> 
> Yay! One point to Silva's fans for logic!


More like Sonnen fans keep bringing up the rules issue first, then forgetting their boy has been breaking/exploiting rules this whole time. Sonnen's huge cheating came first, Anderson's tactics are him responding in kind and on a much smaller level.


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> More like Sonnen fans keep bringing up the rules issue first, then forgetting their boy has been breaking/exploiting rules this whole time. Sonnen's huge cheating came first, Anderson's tactics are him responding in kind and on a much smaller level.


Please do show proof that Sonnen broke the rules for this fight. Sonnen said he grabbed Silva's shorts, but I believe that is more likely because he does not want to make any excuses for the fight. Post a gif of him grabbing Silva's shorts for any longer than half a sec and I admit I'm wrong.

If you are adamant that Sonnen is above normal testosterone levels for this fight, post evidence. Until then, Sonnen is innocent till proven guilty. Don't accuse Sonnen of cheating just because you THINK he did. Yes he did cheat in the first Silva fight. But that is like saying a murderer will always kill someone if he gets out of jail. 

Anderson's tactics are on a "smaller" level, if you say so. However, it has a direct impact on the fight. If Anderson did not grab Sonnen's shorts, Sonnen probably would have gotten Silva down, judging by the gif. That would have changed the entire way the fight have went. Even if you say the shorts-grabbing has no effect on the outcome of the fight, isn't it still cheating? Isn't it what you Sonnen haters have been so vocal about since the first Silva-Sonnen fight? 

"Sonnen is a bloody disgusting cheater"

Just so you know, it should probably be applied to the person you are supporting as well.

And you talked about how you identify Silva's mistakes when he makes them, and criticise him for it even if you are his fan. :confused05: Great to know that.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

OHKO said:


> Please do show proof that Sonnen broke the rules for this fight. Sonnen said he grabbed Silva's shorts, but I believe that is more likely because he does not want to make any excuses for the fight. Post a gif of him grabbing Silva's shorts for any longer than half a sec and I admit I'm wrong.
> 
> If you are adamant that Sonnen is above normal testosterone levels for this fight, post evidence. Until then, Sonnen is innocent till proven guilty. Don't accuse Sonnen of cheating just because you THINK he did. Yes he did cheat in the first Silva fight. But that is like saying a murderer will always kill someone if he gets out of jail.
> 
> ...












doooooood, I was right there with you until you started letting murderers out of jail.....

bad bad bad bad comparison....


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

OHKO said:


> Please do show proof that Sonnen broke the rules for this fight. Sonnen said he grabbed Silva's shorts, but I believe that is more likely because he does not want to make any excuses for the fight. Post a gif of him grabbing Silva's shorts for any longer than half a sec and I admit I'm wrong.
> 
> If you are adamant that Sonnen is above normal testosterone levels for this fight, post evidence. Until then, Sonnen is innocent till proven guilty. Don't accuse Sonnen of cheating just because you THINK he did. Yes he did cheat in the first Silva fight. But that is like saying a murderer will always kill someone if he gets out of jail.
> 
> ...


TRT is cheating in spirit, plain and simple, whether or not he was within the ridiculous 6 times the normal human ratio set by the commission. It is legalized cheating, performance enhancing, and absolute BS that a buff man in his 30s is naturally testosterone deficient.

Grabbing shorts and vaseline etc. have bendable rules for them the same way TRT does. A normal honorable fighter should have 1:1 T/E ratio, but up to 6 times that figure (unattainable except by a synthetic steroid) is allowed and overlooked by the commission. Chael was and still is on that synthetic steroid.

The amount of vaseline on the face as applied by the licensed cutman is very small and some is expected and allowed by the commission to spread on the body, this has been clarified by the commission itself. While doing so manually is frowned upon, there is no rule against it.

A normal fighter should not grab the shorts / fence, but anything less than repeated offenses are just given warnings and overlooked by the commission and ref the same way a fishy 6:1 T/E ratio is.

Neither one went "beyond the rules" enough to warrant any more intervention, but they did go beyond the spirit. Anderson in response to Sonnen's doing so first and continuing to do so with a certificate. It's the EXACT SAME THING for both of them. There is absolutely no difference between the two situations. 

They both bent rules this time, neither outright broke any. If they had, you'd see a DQ, NC or suspension on the record, but you don't.


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## otronegro (Aug 23, 2011)

Can't you butt hurt Sonnen fans just let it go?

He cheated the first bout and lost, he did not cheat the second one and lost the same way, your boy is not good enough to beat the champion, cheating or not cheating he got finished both times, just freaking let it go... he did.

I supose in Oregon it's ok to roid ur ass up at least 4 times the normal rate of testosterone to have any chance, but to hold a shorts for 15secs is death penalty, right? Also LMAO on ppl saying that he wanted to hit Sonnen's face with that knee, especially our 'experts'... delusional much?


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

otronegro said:


> Can't you butt hurt Sonnen fans just let it go?
> 
> He cheated the first bout and lost, he did not cheat the second one and lost the same way, your boy is not good enough to beat the champion, cheating or not cheating he got finished both times, just freaking let it go... he did.
> 
> I supose in Oregon it's ok to roid ur ass up at least 4 times the normal rate of testosterone to have any chance, but to hold a shorts for 15secs is death penalty, right? Also LMAO on ppl saying that he wanted to hit Sonnen's face with that knee, especially our 'experts'... delusional much?



whoah raise01: I think that's the strongest reaction I've ever seen from you ol buddy. 

Of course we are experts can you not see that?










we have agents all over the world who will continue to dissect all minutia until one of you breaks.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Ok I have to go on record that I'm basing Chael grabbing Anderson's shorts on what he said at the press conference and what I perceived as short grabbing or hand face to palm on Anderson's butt cheek or whatever it was on that gif. 

I REALLY did not want to post anything more on this subject, but if that clarifies anything so be it. 

KRY posted up a great article on what Chael's coach thought about everything.

If there's a consolation I'd probably be just as fired up as the Chael P. Sonnen fans had he done the same exact tactics. 

But there really is a sweet outcome to this because the best fighter won both times. Yippee ki-yay!!!

Outro.


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## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

All this talk about cheating, and no one has brought up Fukuda trying to gouge out Costa's eyes? C'mon, let's try to focus on the rule infractions that actually caused serious injury! Did anyone else notice that it looked like his eye was bleeding?


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Purgetheweak said:


> All this talk about cheating, and no one has brought up Fukuda trying to gouge out Costa's eyes? C'mon, let's try to focus on the rule infractions that actually caused serious injury! Did anyone else notice that it looked like his eye was bleeding?


I jumped right out of my chair. accident or not I would have stopped the fight. It's not worth an eye.


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## otronegro (Aug 23, 2011)

oldfan said:


> whoah


Oh well that was mostly about what Spoken said... but it is geting annoying to say the least when ppl who support Sonnen take the cheating road to explain why he lost...somehow its geting under my skin, i thought the props would be given to silva after all.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

People grab shorts all the time in MMA. I do it unconsciously in training all the time, I just stop myself when I notice I'm doing it, and that takes all of 1 second.

I may be a "butt hurt" fan, but if people think that Anderson holding the shorts for a FULL 20 SECONDS (While Chael was going for a takedown and when he was trying to escape leading him to taking a few shots) is not a big deal, then there is nothing else to say.

If the roles were reversed, and Chael grabbed his Anderson's shorts for half that amount of time, Andy fans would be up in arms about it.

We're talking 20 seconds of pure shorts grabbing. At the top of the shorts mind you. Anderson won the fight, but he did it be blatantly cheating.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

Maybe the bottom line in this whole scenario, is that Yves Levine is a crap referree. Would he have caught the vaseline if the guys outside hadn't point it out? 
For 17 seconds silva held chaels shorts, 17 full seconds and the ref couldnt see it because his position was crap, he should of been in there stopping that after 2 or 3 seconds. 
Whatever about the knee, it was not an easy decision to make because it was so fast

Its the most annoying thing in sport bad referreeing decisions. It happens so much in soccer its not funny, with insane knock effects that can destroy a clubs finances say in a relegation battles - in this case I dont think it can be denied without the shorts incident chael most likely would have completed the take down, changing the course of the fight. If the ref stops the grabbing, the course changes to who knows what...we can speculate but the reality is we dont know. 
I blame the ref.

I dont blame Silva, but I dont respect him anymore after his antics. He went against all the philosophy of martial arts he's been preaching for the last few years. 
The same thing happened when I saw what GSP did. These guys are full of shit whatever about their fighting ability. 

If your going to talk about being honourable then do it, don't talk about it and then do the opposite. 
People like Fedor and Randy are the true honourable people from our sport. They dont have to talk about it, they just do it, because deep down thats the kind of man they are. This is why they have been so loved by so many.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Chael is being a real man here and showing some character.Silva greased and grabbed his shorts at pivotal moments which defiantly impacted the fight and had they not happened the fight may have gone completely different. Chael has every right to be pissed off but he is handling this with class as opposed to what most other fighters would do.

Silva fans you have to give this guy some credit.


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## Gluteal Cleft (May 12, 2007)

(deleted)


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## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

Frankly, the shorts grab was a real gamble for Silva, Chael could've just unloaded punches at Anderson's face while his hand was stuck down at waist level.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Purgetheweak said:


> Frankly, the shorts grab was a real gamble for Silva, Chael could've just unloaded punches at Anderson's face while his hand was stuck down at waist level.


yah but one the chances of chael abandoning the takedown for a few punches is very slim. 

Also I think given chael's strengths (wrestling/lay and prey) weaknesses (pillow hands) and game plan (lay and prey a victory) silva would prefer take a few strikes, circle out and keep it standing as opposed to an entire round on his back.

It was a calculated risk and it paid off big time. But the big thing is that it was illegal.


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## jack13 (Jul 11, 2012)

*frank mir appearance in calgary*

i heard frank mir is going to be doing a signing before 149 starts in calgary. i'm pretty excited to go and take pics and see him!


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## Crester (Apr 5, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> Chael is being a real man here and showing some character.Silva greased and grabbed his shorts at pivotal moments which defiantly impacted the fight and had they not happened the fight may have gone completely different. Chael has every right to be pissed off but he is handling this with class as opposed to what most other fighters would do.
> 
> Silva fans you have to give this guy some credit.


I agree that after the fight Sonnen has been behaving very well... but that doesn't change the years of stupidity he did before.

But I guess he realizes "It's Over"... so what's the point of continuing the constant trolling?


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

americanfighter said:


> Also I think given chael's strengths (wrestling/*lay and prey*) weaknesses (*pillow hands*) and game plan (*lay and prey a victory*)


Respect to a Sonnen fan for admitting that.

I'm definitely not happy with Silva grabbing the shorts and thought that they were close the point deduction worthy and wouldn't have complained if there had been a deduction, but come on, Silva also stuffed every other TD attempt in the 2nd and there were another three and a half rounds were he could KO Sonnen. The shorts grabbing was definitly bad, but to suggest that it has changed the final outcome of Silva winning at one point is a bit too far stretched. Sonnen not on high TRT just isn't that powerhouse. The better man won, even though it was including a bad move.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Jesus... Chael is taking his loss like a man but his fans are taking his loss like a late night session with their cell mate. A lot of crying and bleeding asses.

Pretend that Anderson only won by cheating. It's not true but go ahead and believe it. Pretend that he only managed to stuff one of Chael's takedowns by cheating an ignore all of the shots of his he stuffed in the first fight and the ones he stuffed immediately following it. Pretend that what Anderson did with the vaseline was against the rules when it is not. Pretend that the knee was somehow meant for Sonnen's head and only him blocking it prevented Anderson from being dqed - even though slow mo shows that he didn't block it at all. Pretend that all of this is somehow grossly unfair to the lying, cheating felon who at least is man enough to accept his loss without bitching about it.

And in the midst of all of that pretending the rest of us will see what actually happened. I hate Sonnen. Still do even with him being kind of cool after the fight. It just doesn't erase 3 years of listening to him talk. I am an Anderson Silva fan but none of that blinds me to what happened during that fight.

The first round Silva got taken down and controlled. No damage done but it was a solid round for Chael. He looked tired at the end. I don't believe Silva intended to be taken down and controlled but I do believe his method of controlling Chael on the ground was planned to wear him out. If you are fighting someone like Chael it's the kind of thing you'd plan for.

Second round Silva stuffs a takedown and get's backed against the fence. He grabs Chael shorts but I do not think it really helped stop the takedown. His hand position and stance were perfect for defending the shot. Anderson takes a few knees to the face and doesn't even blink. Anderson goes for a single leg that Chael defends by grabbing his shorts. Chael breaks off and tries to retreat across the ring. Silva did rattle off a couple of cheap shots here and gets warned by the ref. Chael shoots again and is stuffed with absolutely nothing questionable happening. Tries a jab, spinning backfist combo, slips, and just sits there looking up at Silva. Silva lands the perfectly legal knee from hell. Sonnen attempts another takedown, is casually stuffed, pushed back against the cage, and dropped. GnP ends it.

That's what happened. Silva beat Sonnen again. Doing only one questionable thing that is still far less than what Sonnen did in their first fight. Do you know what the real travesty was from Saturday night? That Sonnen even got the ******* rematch.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> What about it???
> 
> And do you have any proof of Chael hiring a doctor to say that for him??
> 
> ...


I wasn't saying that Sonnens T:E would be too high this fight, just that TRT given to healthy men in their 30's is obviosuly a loophole, thinking anything else would be naive...it's just common sence. How am I gonna prove that they don't have hypogonadism? I can't, but anyone with common sence can see that it's a loophole. 

Silva used some loopholes himself, and like Sonnen he got away with it, perfectly legal win according to NSAC, so why are so many Sonnen-fans complaining? I mean grabbing shorts and getting away with it within the rules isn't as bad as roiding and getting away with it within the rules IMO. 

The rant about testosteron esters wasn't me trying to prove anything regarding this fight, just an answer to your previous question.


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## Freckle (Apr 23, 2012)

Blind hate is blind. 

It is really dis-heartining to see so many people acting the way they are. Chael is 0-2 aganist Silva. Nothing will change that. I for one would be happy to never see them fight again. I really thought all the crazieness would be done after the fight, but I was wrong. It just keeps getting worse, and worse. I lurk more then I post, but even that is becoming un-enjoyable. Whether you hate Chael, or you hate Silva should not matter. Everyone should look at this fight as objectivly as possible. Yes, Silva fought dirty, but did Silva tell Chael to throw that spinning elbow? No. Would Silva have gotten points taken away if he kept holding onto the shorts? Yes, I believe so. At the end of the day Chael lost, and that is all that matters. He is being classy in his loss. Why can't his fans?


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Please stop grouping all Sonnen fans together. 

Like the man himself, I'm more than happy to move on. Certain 'transgressions' occurred in both fights. There's no sense in dwelling on any of it.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Canadian Psycho said:


> Please stop grouping all Sonnen fans together.
> 
> Like the man himself, I'm more than happy to move on. Certain 'transgressions' occurred in both fights. There's no sense in dwelling on any of it.


I'm not actually including you in my comments. You've been level headed since the fight. Some of the other have been less so.


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## StandThemUp (May 30, 2008)

I just can't believe Chael fans have the gaul to accuse someone else of cheating. That's the funniest thing ever.


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## above (Jun 20, 2012)

Good grief with all these chael fanboys and their crying about cheating. Your guy lost and would have still lost regardless. Get over it.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

mmaswe82 said:


> I wasn't saying that Sonnens T:E would be too high this fight, just that TRT given to healthy men in their 30's is obviosuly a loophole, thinking anything else would be naive...it's just common sence. How am I gonna prove that they don't have hypogonadism? I can't, but anyone with common sence can see that it's a loophole.
> 
> Silva used some loopholes himself, and like Sonnen he got away with it, perfectly legal win according to NSAC, so why are so many Sonnen-fans complaining? I mean grabbing shorts and getting away with it within the rules isn't as bad as roiding and getting away with it within the rules IMO.
> 
> The rant about testosteron esters wasn't me trying to prove anything regarding this fight, just an answer to your previous question.


You dont know if he is a healthy man without it.

Quit frankly im surprised his testosterone was in the lower ends of Normal instead of the higher ends.

You are calling it a loophole because you WANT to call it a loophole not because you have any evidence to back you up. 

And the stuff your talking about wasnt even part of the discussion we were having. Next time let me know you are not trying to participate in the discussion but instead pointing out something else. So i know what you are trying to get at. Instead of thinking wtf does this guy think he is proving.

And Chael this fight did everything completely legally. He didnt "Get away" with anything. He didnt have to get away with anything since everything he did is completely legal. What Anderson did ISNT legal. Simple as that.

If you further wanna discuss this then come with something else other then accusations or your own beliefs.


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> You dont know if he is a healthy man without it.
> 
> Quit frankly im surprised his testosterone was in the lower ends of Normal instead of the higher ends.
> 
> ...


come on now... you can go around saying "chael broke the rules the first fight" "anderson broke the rules the second fight". It doesnt matter. Silva won when sonnen broke the rules, and he won when he broke the rules.

And just to be completely fair, silva didn't violate any rule that results in suspensions, he violated a rule that results in a point deduction, but IT DOES NOT MATTER.


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## Azumo (Feb 8, 2011)

I can see it now. Silva vs Sonnen III

Rd 1 - 4 Silva pulls on his trunks so he can give Sonnen 10-8 for four rounds as Sonnen tries his hardest to dryhump him on the ground. 

Rd 5 - Silva knees him in the head as he shoots for another TD

Point being guys, you need to stop fighting over the stupid stuff. Did he grab his shorts? GEE DUH :confused02: But who used PEDS in the first fight? Who said that it's a street fight with two men locked inside of a cage? 

Seriously guys, your hero is oppenly addmitting that Anderson is better and won the fight and DISMISSING what happened (short grabs, vasaline rubs) while you are sitting here pointing out the obvious. 

The fight is over. Anderson won because he is a better fighter. Not because he put a drop of vaseline on his chest, not because he held onto his shorts, but because he is the greatest fighter of our time, arguably that has ever lived. Argue if you want, but facts don't lie.


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## Azumo (Feb 8, 2011)

deadmanshand said:


> Jesus... Chael is taking his loss like a man but his fans are taking his loss like a late night session with their cell mate. A lot of crying and bleeding asses.
> 
> Do you know what the real travesty was from Saturday night? That Sonnen even got the ******* rematch.


Favorite post of all time. It's completely true. This guy takes PEDS and beats the crap out of Andy and gets subbed and then talks loads of crap and gets a rematch. I'll admit, Chaels smart. He's a great talker. Fighter? Eh? Debatable.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

xxpillowxxjp said:


> come on now... you can go around saying "chael broke the rules the first fight" "anderson broke the rules the second fight". It doesnt matter. Silva won when sonnen broke the rules, and he won when he broke the rules.
> 
> And just to be completely fair, silva didn't violate any rule that results in suspensions, he violated a rule that results in a point deduction, but IT DOES NOT MATTER.


If you read my posts you would know im not arguing any of those points. I even gave BUNCH OF props to Anderson Silva. I was only speaking the COMPLETE TRUTH on the situation. Something that Anderson Silva fans get insulted about for whatever reason.

As soon as someone mentions the truth about what the Shorts holding did. Anderson Silva fans get in an uproar.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Azumo said:


> I can see it now. Silva vs Sonnen III
> 
> Rd 1 - 4 Silva pulls on his trunks so he can give Sonnen 10-8 for four rounds as Sonnen tries his hardest to dryhump him on the ground.
> 
> ...


Why do we even mention the first fight what chael did there (although crooked) has nothing to do with what siva did on this fight. 

I really didn't care what happened and who won but i hated to see it go this way with silva cheating to get the win. I mean I went back and watched it again and looked at stills and its not even close silva had an intent to cheat for the win. next time chael needs to wear tight shorts so this won't happen again.

I somewhat liked silva before but after this fight. I wouldn't say he was a favorite of mine but still kind of like him and I have lost a ton of respect for the guy after that fight.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

americanfighter said:


> Why do we even mention the first fight what chael did there (although crooked) has nothing to do with what siva did on this fight.
> 
> I really didn't care what happened and who won but i hated to see it go this way with silva cheating to get the win. I mean I went back and watched it again and looked at stills and its not even close silva had an intent to cheat for the win. next time chael needs to wear tight shorts so this won't happen again.
> 
> I somewhat liked silva before but after this fight. I wouldn't say he was a favorite of mine but still kind of like him and I have lost a ton of respect for the guy after that fight.



You know whats funny. Even if the ref deducted a point??? That wouldnt affect Anderson at all. He knows he wasnt going to get a decision so why would he care how many points he lost. He was just going to hold the shorts every chance he gets to prevent the takedown. It was really a no loss scenario for him. Smart shady strategizing on his part.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> You know whats funny. Even if the ref deducted a point??? That wouldnt affect Anderson at all. He knows he wasnt going to get a decision so why would he care how many points he lost. He was just going to hold the shorts every chance he gets to prevent the takedown. It was really a no loss scenario for him. Smart shady strategizing on his part.


oh yeah there is no way silva was going to win a UD he was either going to KO or submit Chael or lose so why worry about the point deduction.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> You dont know if he is a healthy man without it.
> 
> Quit frankly im surprised his testosterone was in the lower ends of Normal instead of the higher ends.
> 
> ...


Well my evidence is what I posted above, that Chaels own doctor said that he wasn't below normal levels, why would he need TRT then? other evidence is Chael having a successful wrestling career without TRT when having hypogonadism. It's all evidence.

Funny I think it's highly related to what you guys where talking about, but I have a feeling that you either don't understand my point or pretend that you don't.

I can't prove that chael doesn't need TRT, just as you can't prove that Silva grabbing his shorts had any effect on the outcome of the fight. There is however plenty of evidence making it seem like Chael does not indeed need TRT.




> You know whats funny. Even if the ref deducted a point??? That wouldnt affect Anderson at all. He knows he wasnt going to get a decision so why would he care how many points he lost. *He was just going to hold the shorts every chance he gets to prevent the takedown*. It was really a no loss scenario for him. Smart shady strategizing on his part


Where is your proof of that?


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

mmaswe82 said:


> Where is your proof of that?


The fight itself. Lmao


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> The fight itself. Lmao


I'm going to assume that you are joking, so in other words, you have no idea?


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

mmaswe82 said:


> I'm going to assume that you are joking, so in other words, you have no idea?


Well it can be easily be said with almost absolute certiancy that silva was not worried about points and was looking for a ko or submission. The number one concern was getting taken down and sonnen grinding out a round. Silva would do anything to keep that from happening and toopen Chael up for a ko.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Well he only broke the rules to defend one of the takedowns he defended the others legally.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

osmium said:


> Well he only broke the rules to defend one of the takedowns he defended the others legally.


He also grbbed chael's pants and hit him while Chael was trying to get away right. 

There is absolutely no denying he graves Chael's shorts and knew exactly what he was doing and there is no denying it had an impact on the fight Silva cheated he had an intention to cheat in more ways than one and it impacted the fight silva fans need to open their eyes stop denying this.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

americanfighter said:


> He also grbbed chael's pants and hit him while Chael was trying to get away right.
> 
> There is absolutely no denying he graves Chael's shorts and knew exactly what he was doing and there is no denying it had an impact on the fight Silva cheated he had an intention to cheat in more ways than one and it impacted the fight silva fans need to open their eyes stop denying this.


Yes, I'm not denying that but all I was trying to say is that at worst it evens out the game, since Sonnen cheated blatantly in the first fight & more than likely cheated in this one. So my point was that the shorts-grabbig wasn't the big deal that some of Sonnens fans makes it out to be.

Even if Sonnen wasn't a repeated cheater & lyer, it wouldn't be a big deal, grabbing of shorts happens pretty much every event.

But yes it did happen & it was kind of dirty, I'm not denying that.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

mmaswe82 said:


> I'm going to assume that you are joking, so in other words, you have no idea?


No im not joking.

He grabbed the shorts any time it would make sense to grab them.

You can keep trying to argue this but you cant change what happened.

Now your best off dropping it and leaving it to be a difference of opinion. Cause you brought no facts to change my mind on ANYTHING. Much less this.
And personally i could care less what you believe. So if you want to believe Chael is lying about hypogodandism or that he has illegal high testosterone levels this fight EVEN THOUGH he got tested multiple times before the fight. Thats okay with me.



osmium said:


> Well he only broke the rules to defend one of the takedowns he defended the others legally.


Well not every situation is gonna warrant shorts grabbing. It has to be beneficial to him after all.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> No im not joking.
> 
> He grabbed the shorts any time it would make sense to grab them.
> 
> ...




Ok then, back to ignore you go, it was worth a try. Who knows, maybe in a year or two I'll be crazy enough to try again. For now I'll just chalk it down to the usual, Sideways makes claims without having any facts to back them up, yet demanding proof and facts from everyone else.

Agree to disagree then.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

mmaswe82 said:


> Ok then, back to ignore you go, it was worth a try. Who knows, maybe in a year or two I'll be crazy enough to try again. For now *I'll just chalk it down to the usual, Sideways makes claims without having any facts to back them up*, yet demanding proof and facts from everyone else.
> 
> Agree to disagree then.


To say outright lies so calmly must be a nice talent. Im sure your parents are proud of you. 

As i previously told you



> Now your best off dropping it and leaving it to be a difference of opinion. Cause you brought no facts to change my mind on ANYTHING. Much less this.
> And personally i could care less what you believe. So if you want to believe Chael is lying about hypogodandism or that he has illegal high testosterone levels this fight EVEN THOUGH he got tested multiple times before the fight. Thats okay with me.



Actually i posted proof. (I posted proof about Chael being tested multiple times before the fight. I posted proof about Anderson Silva grabbing the shorts. What else do i need to post proof about??)

It was you who posted no proof. (?????? nothing. Just opinions)

(Amazing how you are trying to twist it) 
Probably because i called you out on it and this is the only way you can safe some face. By completely lying and eventually you will believe your lie.


Yes iv seen enough that makes me not mind if i never have to "Deal" with you again.

Well actually.

When you LEARN to present your opinions as OPINIONS. Then we can talk again. Until then...

<3


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

SpoKen said:


> We're talking 20 seconds of pure shorts grabbing. At the top of the shorts mind you. Anderson won the fight, but he did it be blatantly cheating.


Ok, about the "what if" road here's one: If Sonnen would not have cheated in the first match, that fight would not be a close call for Anderson therefore maybe this second match would not happen anytime soon, or never. 

Speaking about FULL 20 SEC OF SHORT GRABBING: Lets compare the full 25 minutes Sonnen was on top of Anderson with the few seconds Anderson was on top. Hum... So at most, the short grabbing maybe saved audience from another 5 minutes of snoozing, inconclusive lay and pray.

Funny. Anderson's fans should not be happy with the way he won, but apparently, Sonnen's fans would be more than happy to see Sonnen winning by only outscoring AS boringly.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> To say outright lies so calmly must be a nice talent. Im sure your parents are proud of you.
> 
> As i previously told you
> 
> ...


You are known by most as the forum strawman, most ppl have you on ignore, I understand why.

heres some <3 for you too and hope you grow out of your childish behaviour.

*ignore*


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

mmaswe82 said:


> Yes, I'm not denying that but all I was trying to say is that at worst it evens out the game, since Sonnen cheated blatantly in the first fight & more than likely cheated in this one. So my point was that the shorts-grabbig wasn't the big deal that some of Sonnens fans makes it out to be.
> 
> Even if Sonnen wasn't a repeated cheater & lyer, it wouldn't be a big deal, grabbing of shorts happens pretty much every event.
> 
> But yes it did happen & it was kind of dirty, I'm not denying that.


What Chael did in the last fight has no impact on how I feel about this one. Be the better man an rise above the BS. And the fact that he won the fight and got away with cheating also has a impact on how I feel. Sonnen lost the fight and got suspended he paid for his actions and now we move on. Silva got off Scott free and won both fights. 

Sure the pans grab happens in other fights but nowhere near as much as as silva did or with the intent as much disrespect for the rules as silva did. I have never seen it this bad.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

americanfighter said:


> What Chael did in the last fight has in impact on how I feel about this one. Be the better man an rise above the BS. And the fact that he won the fight and got away with cheating also has a impact on how I feel. Sonnen lost the fight and got suspended he paid for his actions and now we move on. Silva got off Scott free and won both fights.
> 
> Sure the pans grab happens in other fights but nowhere near as much as as silva did or with the intent as much disrespect for the rules as silva did. I have never seen it this bad.


Well yea, I wish he hadn't done it either, it was a dirty thing to do, I won't argue with that. I have seen as bad examples of shortsgrabbing as this one but that's not the point, it's not a nice thing to do.

I understand that you as a fan of Sonnen don't like that.

My only point is that it has been blown way out of proportion, maybe because it was such a big fight, I dunno. I just think that Silva has 2 stoppage wins against Sonnen, one where he broke the rules and one where Sonnen broke them (IMO in a much worse way). He's 2 - 0 against Sonnen and in the end all is fair.
He did also stop a few takedowns without grabbing his shorts.
You are a levelheaded Sonnenfan and I respect your opinion, I can see why you would think less of Silva after this fight, I just want the discussion to be done with, as IMO there is really not much to argue about anymore.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Ok, about the "what if" road here's one: If Sonnen would not have cheated in the first match, that fight would not be a close call for Anderson therefore maybe this second match would not happen anytime soon, or never.
> 
> Speaking about FULL 20 SEC OF SHORT GRABBING: Lets compare the full 25 minutes Sonnen was on top of Anderson with the few seconds Anderson was on top. Hum... So at most, the short grabbing maybe saved audience from another 5 minutes of snoozing, inconclusive lay and pray.
> 
> Funny. Anderson's fans should not be happy with the way he won, but apparently, Sonnen's fans would be more than happy to see Sonnen winning by only outscoring AS boringly.


If Sonnen won the first fight, he would have been stripped of the title anyways since he got caught for the TRT thing, and he was punished.

Anderson got caught cheating on MORE THAN 1 occasion, and no punishment. I'm more upset at the complete lack of punishment. It sets a bad example for the sport and upcoming fighters.

Had it been two fighters just fighting and someone pulled the crap that Anderson pulled, he probably would have been cut or fined out the ass.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SpoKen said:


> If Sonnen won the first fight, he would have been stripped of the title anyways since he got caught for the TRT thing, and he was punished.
> 
> Anderson got caught cheating on MORE THAN 1 occasion, and no punishment. I'm more upset at the complete lack of punishment. It sets a bad example for the sport and upcoming fighters.
> 
> Had it been two fighters just fighting and someone pulled the crap that Anderson pulled, he probably would have been cut or fined out the ass.


You are delusional. He did nothing to get fined or cut for. The vaseline thing isn't viewed as any kind of a big deal no one would even get a point deduction for that. The shoulder strike at the weighins was the only thing he did that would really piss someone off in power.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

SpoKen said:


> If Sonnen won the first fight, he would have been stripped of the title anyways since he got caught for the TRT thing, and he was punished.
> 
> Anderson got caught cheating on MORE THAN 1 occasion, and no punishment. I'm more upset at the complete lack of punishment. It sets a bad example for the sport and upcoming fighters.
> 
> *Had it been two fighters just fighting and someone pulled the crap that Anderson pulled, he probably would have been cut or fined out the ass*.


Nah man come on, Kongo has done way worse things than this & as far as I can remember he's never been punished for it.

Also Bisping more or less ended a fight with am illegal knee, then spat on the other guys corner and still got the win, not even a NC, I thought it should have been a DQ. Far as I can remember he was given a small fine for the spitting part, nothing else.

These things that Silva did are nothing compared to things that have gone unpunished in the UFC.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

osmium said:


> You are delusional. He did nothing to get fined or cut for. The vaseline thing isn't viewed as any kind of a big deal no one would even get a point deduction for that. The shoulder strike at the weighins was the only thing he did that would really piss someone off in power.


Him holding the shorts?

Not to mention, all of it combined. Can't look at each individual action, because then, like you said, it's NOT that big of a deal. If he did one of those things, sure, I wouldn't be bothered by it at all.

But he did more than push Chael at the weigh ins, he struck him. Anderson Silva throwing a short range shoulder strike TO THE FACE would hurt like hell. It'd certainly drop me, it'd probably drop you too.

Trying to Vaseline himself and getting caught, eh, whatever to me. He got caught and toweled off. He should be warned to stop doing it since he does it basically every fight.

Holding the shorts for about 20 seconds, stopping a takedown and then landing strikes while still holding the shorts, that's just ugly cheating behavior. No way around that, and that's what really pisses me off the most.

Look at all of these things as a whole, and it's despicable, it's something that will get you labeled a cheater in my book. You don't have to agree with me, but my opinion of him stands. He's a dirty cheater.

And no, I didn't bring up the knee again because, well, it was a legal knee.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

It isn't despicable hitting a guy in the balls twice is way worse than that and has a much larger impact on the fight and that happens all the time. That wasn't an attempt to grease it is just stupid to claim he was trying to get an advantage because of how little he moved and where he moved it. If they really cared about it they would tell him to stop. The only thing to complain about within the fight is the short grabbing which was pretty bad for what it was but still not a serious foul. 

I seriously doubt Anderson would drop me with a shoulder strike unless he came flying at me like an nfl linebacker seeing as how I am taller than him and something like that wouldn't even hit my chin. If only Chael went through puberty he might have been tall enough to avoid it as well.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

osmium said:


> It isn't despicable hitting a guy in the balls twice is way worse than that and has a much larger impact on the fight and that happens all the time. That wasn't an attempt to grease it is just stupid to claim he was trying to get an advantage because of how little he moved and where he moved it. If they really cared about it they would tell him to stop. The only thing to complain about within the fight is the short grabbing which was pretty bad for what it was but still not a serious foul.
> 
> I seriously doubt Anderson would drop me with a shoulder strike unless he came flying at me like an nfl linebacker seeing as how I am taller than him and something like that wouldn't even hit my chin. If only Chael went through puberty he might have been tall enough to avoid it as well.


We just disagree then. I can't brush off all of those actions, these guys are supposed to be professionals. There is hyping a fight, and there is being a dirty fighter. Anderson crossed that line too many times in a 48 hour period for me.

He's still the greatest fighter to ever live though.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

:hug:


mmaswe82 said:


> Well yea, I wish he hadn't done it either, it was a dirty thing to do, I won't argue with that. I have seen as bad examples of shortsgrabbing as this one but that's not the point, it's not a nice thing to do.
> 
> I understand that you as a fan of Sonnen don't like that.
> 
> ...


Thats true there's not much else to say that hasent already been said. 

For me I guess this is more of a big deal for me because 2 reasons. one because of the hype and anticipation involved in this fight just to have it go this way. Two I hold the champ to much higher standards than everyone else on the roster and what's at stake in the fight namely the 
belt. Not to mention the fact that he won and receives no punishment for his actions. 

I wouldn't say I am a huge fan of Chael. I prefer him to many other fighters but first and foremost I am a rich Franklin fan. 

+ rep for discussing a heated subject in a civilized manor without trolling or flaming.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

mmaswe82 said:


> You are known by most as the forum strawman, most ppl have you on ignore, I understand why.
> 
> heres some <3 for you too and hope you grow out of your childish behaviour.
> 
> **ignore**


Isnt that what you said last time Lol. Another lie. When you gonna stop lying???
You know you can get help for that right?? Im sure you dont mean to be a pathological liar, its just who you are. 

You for some reason think when you make a claim its on the other guy to disprove it instead of your proving it. Crazy world you live in.

And if you were showing love you wouldnt try to throw in a butt hurt comment haha. Thanks though... il be sure to change my behavior 180 now. I cant wait to get home and work on that.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> It isn't despicable hitting a guy in the balls twice is way worse than that and has a much larger impact on the fight and that happens all the time. That wasn't an attempt to grease it is just stupid to claim he was trying to get an advantage because of how little he moved and where he moved it. If they really cared about it they would tell him to stop. The only thing to complain about within the fight is the short grabbing which was pretty bad for what it was but still not a serious foul.
> 
> I seriously doubt Anderson would drop me with a shoulder strike unless he came flying at me like an nfl linebacker seeing as how I am taller than him and something like that wouldn't even hit my chin. If only Chael went through puberty he might have been tall enough to avoid it as well.


I know many people who WENT through puberty and are shorter then Chael. But funny joke anyway.

Yeah the Anderson greasing thing is silly. Sure what he did was illegal but it was hardly an attempt at getting an advantage. So nothing worth talking about there.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

SpoKen said:


> Anderson got caught cheating on MORE THAN 1 occasion, and no punishment. I'm more upset at the complete lack of punishment. It sets a bad example for the sport and upcoming fighters.


Wow. Did you really say that? Anderson is a bad example for the sport?
What about almost everything Chael said unprofessionally about Anderson's personal life, his wife, his childhood playing in the mud or Brazilians never using soap? Is that a good example?

About illegality, if Anderson would sue Chael for those public lines, before any court these things are a plain and direct offense transcending not only the boundaries of the sport but all civility and yes, punishable by law.

A shoulder to the face, although wrong, is insignificant compared to the whole bunch of low level attacks from Sonnen which were overlooked by the comission, Dana etc. If he is so self assure of his qualities, why would he need to destabilise Anderson anyway?


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Wow. Did you really say that? Anderson is a bad example for the sport?
> What about almost everything Chael said unprofessionally about Anderson's personal life, his wife, his childhood playing in the mud or Brazilians never using soap? Is that a good example?
> 
> About illegality, if Anderson would sue Chael for those public lines, before any court these things are a plain and direct offense transcending not only the boundaries of the sport but all civility and yes, punishable by law.
> ...


First, when did I say that Chael was any kind of role model or ambassador of the sport? Chael said a lot of messed up things, but lots of fighters say a lot of things before a fight. It's all about knowing your boundaries. I'm looking at this fight and only this fight, forget the fight in the past because Chael already paid the punishment for his actions.

This last fight, Chael said a lot of messed up stuff but never crossed any real boundaries. Everything can be attributed to hyping the fight.

Anderson crossed those boundaries multiple times by cheating in the octagon and striking him at the weigh ins.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

SpoKen said:


> First, when did I say that Chael was any kind of role model or ambassador of the sport? Chael said a lot of messed up things, but lots of fighters say a lot of things before a fight. It's all about knowing your boundaries. I'm looking at this fight and only this fight, forget the fight in the past because Chael already paid the punishment for his actions.
> 
> This last fight, Chael said a lot of messed up stuff but never crossed any real boundaries. Everything can be attributed to hyping the fight.
> 
> Anderson crossed those boundaries multiple times by cheating in the octagon and striking him at the weigh ins.


You don't think making lewd comments about someone's wife is crossing the line? Just out of curiosity, what would your reaction be to someone who said stuff like that about your wife or girl?


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## Old school fan (Aug 24, 2011)

SpoKen said:


> First, when did I say that Chael was any kind of role model or ambassador of the sport? Chael said a lot of messed up things, but lots of fighters say a lot of things before a fight. It's all about knowing your boundaries. I'm looking at this fight and only this fight, forget the fight in the past because Chael already paid the punishment for his actions.
> 
> This last fight, Chael said a lot of messed up stuff but never crossed any real boundaries. Everything can be attributed to hyping the fight.
> 
> Anderson crossed those boundaries multiple times by cheating in the octagon and striking him at the weigh ins.


How does making fun of poor children hype a fight?


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

Liddellianenko said:


> You don't think making lewd comments about someone's wife is crossing the line? Just out of curiosity, what would your reaction be to someone who said stuff like that about your wife or girl?





Old school fan said:


> How does making fun of poor children hype a fight?


They're just words. Sure, it's pretty foul, but at the end of the day they're just words. Nothing in the rule book against them. Just because he said some foul things he can't get a fair fight where both contestants follow the rules?

There's never an excuse for cheating, especially that openly.


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## tie (Oct 9, 2011)

Good for Chael, apparently most of the Chael legion around the web got "trolled" as hard as anyone by him as their blind hatered of A. Silva is apparent so long after the fight, even when Sonnen himself seems to have forgotten the whole deal.

So suck it, 2-0.. cry me a river.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

SpoKen said:


> There's never an excuse for cheating, especially that openly.


That was a funny phrase. "To cheat openly?" Anderson did what he did on pourpose and he was called the attention by the referee and stopped.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> That was a funny phrase. "To cheat openly?" Anderson did what he did on pourpose and he was called the attention by the referee and stopped.


After 20 seconds of straight shorts pulling. 20 full seconds. If it was 5.. it wouldn't be that big of a deal.. but 20 seconds?!?! 20 WHOLE SECONDS?! How is that not insane?!


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

SpoKen said:


> After 20 seconds of straight shorts pulling. 20 full seconds. If it was 5.. it wouldn't be that big of a deal.. but 20 seconds?!?! 20 WHOLE SECONDS?! How is that not insane?!


Wow..Anderson is living in your head rent free... 20 seconds huh..LMAO..It was like 2-3 seconds let go.. 2 seconds and then let go...

The stuff you are crying about happens all the time... Your just a Hater like Lyoto Legion...


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

TheNinja said:


> Wow..Anderson is living in your head rent free... 20 seconds huh..LMAO..It was like 2-3 seconds let go.. 2 seconds and then let go...
> 
> The stuff you are crying about happens all the time... Your just a Hater like Lyoto Legion...


Thing is, I'm not a hater. I love Anderson Silva, I've never cheered against him, I just didn't root for him in this fight because Chael Sonnen makes me laugh. Anderson is the best fighter in the world, he didn't have to resort to breaking the rules to beat Chael, he could have done it fair and square.

And no, it wasn't hold for a couple seconds and let go, it was straight holding for a full 20 seconds. Which stopped a takedown as well as lead to some cheap punches in which Chael couldn't escape from. It's despicable.


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## Azumo (Feb 8, 2011)

SpoKen said:


> Thing is, I'm not a hater. I love Anderson Silva, I've never cheered against him, I just didn't root for him in this fight because Chael Sonnen makes me laugh. Anderson is the best fighter in the world, he didn't have to resort to breaking the rules to beat Chael, he could have done it fair and square.
> 
> *And no, it wasn't hold for a couple seconds and let go, it was straight holding for a full 20 seconds.* Which stopped a takedown as well as lead to some cheap punches in which Chael couldn't escape from. It's despicable.


I'm gonna give this a go. 

Yes, you are correct. He did hold to his pants denying a takedown and followed by a few punches, but what exactly are you trying to prove? Man at the end of the day, hell even Chael has said it, they are in a fight. The shots thrown by Anderson while holding his shorts were not even 50% power. Honestly I think he did it to get in his head. Chael openly admitted he would have grabbed his shorts if he had thought of it.

All i'm saying is, people need to stop pointing out little things and dwelling on them. They are fighters. I can guarantee you that fight would have went exactly the same direction without Anderson pulling his shorts. He still would have thrown a backfist and got kneed and folded. 

I love Andy, like Chael cause he is funny but your argueing with yourself almost. If you are a true Anderson fan you would know that he would have won that fight without any of the minor technicalities.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

Azumo said:


> I'm gonna give this a go.
> 
> Yes, you are correct. He did hold to his pants denying a takedown and followed by a few punches, but what exactly are you trying to prove? Man at the end of the day, hell even Chael has said it, they are in a fight. The shots thrown by Anderson while holding his shorts were not even 50% power. Honestly I think he did it to get in his head. Chael openly admitted he would have grabbed his shorts if he had thought of it.
> 
> ...


I'm not here to prove or change anything. In my opinion, if he didn't hold the shorts, he would have been pressed against the cage longer and might have been taken down again, but that's all maybe's and what if's. It just makes me mad that it happened in a championship fight that I've been looking forward to all year.

Still an Anderson Silva fan, but he lost damn near all of my respect doing that.

In sparring I've grabbed shorts on accident, gives you a HUGE freakin advantage, more than I thought it would. Chael looked like he broke after it as well, and the fight ended.

I'm just salty, I would have had no problem if Anderson won any other way, but cheating in a championship fight because you lost the first round in a horrible way is just... sad :thumbsdown:


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## above (Jun 20, 2012)

I think the worst thing chael said in all his shenanigans was the comment about Brazilian kids playing in the mud. That comment captures everything that is vile in American culture (especially right wing politics)... I.e. America is the greatest and other countries are trash. Which is utter nonsense. That kind of attitude not only alienates people but tarnishes the image of America world wide. 

I've lived here for a bit over a decade now and I have so many positive things to say about American people it's not even funny. I have hardly had any issues with anyone and enjoy living here so much. But when I hear shit like that I cringe. Even worse I am saddened on the kind of impression this crap gives to people from back home in Europe and the rest of the world. It's the "stupid American" image all over again, which in my experience is not representative of the people here.

It's shit like that, that made chael appear so disgusting prior to the fight.


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## StandThemUp (May 30, 2008)

SpoKen said:


> So him holding his shorts for a full 20 seconds....?


Big Fricken deal. It was a couple of times over a 20 Second period - 20 Seconds!! Give me a break.
He was warned for it and stopped. Crap like that happens in MMA all the time at all levels. If you think it had any impact on the outcome, you have not been paying attention to MMA over the last 10 years.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

StandThemUp said:


> Big Fricken deal. It was a couple of times over a 20 Second period - 20 Seconds!! Give me a break.
> He was warned for it and stopped. Crap like that happens in MMA all the time at all levels. If you think it had any impact on the outcome, you have not been paying attention to MMA over the last 10 years.



All the time? Name one fight where a fighter held someones shorts for 20 straight seconds. Hell, 10 straight seconds even. I'm sure 10 seconds has been done once.. maybe. But name one. Name 3 if it happens all the time.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

StandThemUp said:


> Big Fricken deal. It was a couple of times over a 20 Second period - 20 Seconds!! Give me a break.
> He was warned for it and stopped. Crap like that happens in MMA all the time at all levels. *If you think it had any impact on the outcome*, you have not been paying attention to MMA over the last 10 years.


Thats EXACTLY what it did have.

Chael would have taken Anderson down on 2 different occasions against the fence if Anderson didnt hold on to the shorts to establish underhooks. He didnt have underhooks thus he grabbed on to the shorts to simulate the barrier underhooks give. This is coming from someone who wrestled for 5 years and currently trains MMA. The people who say "Well it looked like Anderson would have defended the takedown anyway" are simply Anderson fans. He didnt hold on to the shorts for dear life for no reason, that alone should let them know they are wrong.

So Chael gets the takedown in round 2 and probably wins that round and never throws that spinning backfist. 

Thus the shorts grabbing shaped the way that fight played out. 

Now would the outcome have changed??? I HAVE NOOO ******* CLUE. But i do know it changed the fight itself.

Brilliantly calculated move by Anderson Silva. He didnt care about getting warned or getting points deducted since he wasnt going to win a decision. BUT he did care about getting taken down. So it was a win-win for him. 

But as my motto in life goes

"If you aint cheating you aint playing to WIN!"


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

SideWays222 said:


> Thats EXACTLY what it did have.
> 
> Chael would have taken Anderson down on 2 different occasions against the fence if Anderson did hold on to the shorts to establish underhooks. He didnt have underhooks thus he grabbed on to the shorts to simulate the barrier underhooks give. This is coming from someone who wrestled for 5 years and currently trains MMA. The people who say "Well it looked like Anderson would have defended the takedown anyway" are simply Anderson fans. He didnt hold on to the shorts for dear life for no reason, that alone should let them know they are wrong.
> 
> ...


Quoted for truth


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

SpoKen said:


> They're just words. Sure, it's pretty foul, but at the end of the day they're just words.


Hey, SpoKen, being an Admin in this forum, you are entitle to keep order and, in an extreme case, ban someone from posting... Wow, guess what, in a forum like this, words are all we got. So if someone write offensive words against your family, for example, you would do something about it.

Point is: Words represent ideas. They are never "just words". That´s why we never, ever seen Anderson doing things he did in this fight. Your man, Chael, went way too far and never been stopped by people upstairs and was indeed under the skin of Anderson.

Anderson never been known as a cheater and did never behave like that in a weigh in, so any extra-ordinary issue we all witnessed, including, but not limited to shorts grabbing, you can blame on 2 years of Chael's personal, tasteless, unlimited attacks.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

How hypocritical is it to call Anderson bad for the sport when Chael spent the last 2 years turning the fight into a WWE circus.


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## Abrissbirne (Jul 4, 2010)

People are supid. I have no idea why people still talk about hte prefight hype from Chael. He got everyone excited and both Silva and him made a ton of money.
He doesnt mean what he says. If Anderson really gets mad at Chael for getting him money, he is just as stupid as you guys.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Hey, SpoKen, being an Admin in this forum, you are entitle to keep order and, in an extreme case, ban someone from posting... Wow, guess what, in a forum like this, words are all we got. So if someone write offensive words against your family, for example, you would do something about it.
> 
> Point is: Words represent ideas. They are never "just words". That´s why we never, ever seen Anderson doing things he did in this fight. Your man, Chael, went way too far and never been stopped by people upstairs and was indeed under the skin of Anderson.
> 
> Anderson never been known as a cheater and did never behave like that in a weigh in, so any extra-ordinary issue we all witnessed, including, but not limited to shorts grabbing, you can blame on 2 years of Chael's personal, tasteless, unlimited attacks.


You're right...

Where is Chael Sonnen's account, I'll infract him for what he said. Hell, Chael is about to get his account banned, where is he?


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Abrissbirne said:


> People are *supid*. I have no idea why people still talk about *hte* prefight hype from Chael. He got everyone excited and both Silva and him made a ton of money.
> He does*nt* mean what he says. If Anderson really gets mad at Chael for getting him money, he is just as stupid as you guys.


:thumb02:




SpoKen said:


> You're right...
> 
> Where is Chael Sonnen's account, I'll infract him for what he said. Hell, Chael is about to get his account banned, where is he?


I don't really think that's what he means man. I think he is saying that you, as an admin with power overt this forum, have a set of rules and guidelines that you believe are "right" or "just". Anderson is like the admin of the octagon and Chael made several huge infractions personally against the admin. At least that's the metaphor he was going for, I think.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Abrissbirne said:


> People are supid. I have no idea why people still talk about hte prefight hype from Chael. He got everyone excited and both Silva and him made a ton of money.
> He doesnt mean what he says. If Anderson really gets mad at Chael for getting him money, he is just as stupid as you guys.


They are already rich, man. That kind of publicity is garbage for the sport. It grew that big without this level of personal trespassing. What you are saying is that FOR YOU it´s Ok to be insulted for money (wonder what else is for sale...), so Anderson should not bother. That been said, think again who´s really stupid.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

SpoKen said:


> You're right...
> 
> Where is Chael Sonnen's account, I'll infract him for what he said. Hell, Chael is about to get his account banned, where is he?


What I did mean is written right after "The point is:"
Scroll back if you want.

Anyway. I did mean You said that in the end of the day, words were just words and I said if you had to ban someone here in the forum, it would be based solely on the bad choice of words of that one. (Not Chael, daaah...) So, words do matter.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> What I did mean is written right after "The point is:"
> Scroll back if you want.
> 
> Anyway. I did mean You said that in the end of the day, words were just words and I said if you had to ban someone here in the forum, it would be based solely on the bad choice of words of that one. (Not Chael, daaah...) So, words do matter.


I didn't think that was truly the case... but are you basically saying that Anderson isn't responsible for his own actions? Nothing in the rule book about what you can say to another fighter outside the ring. Freedom of speech and everything like that.

So is Anderson not responsible for his own actions?


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Ape City said:


> I don't really think that's what he means man. I think he is saying that you, as an admin with power overt this forum, have a set of rules and guidelines that you believe are "right" or "just". Anderson is like the admin of the octagon and Chael made several huge infractions personally against the admin. At least that's the metaphor he was going for, I think.


Actually no, it was about the question whether "words are just words" and they are not. "Words" do have an influence on reality. If someone uses the wrong words in this forum i.e. offensive words, SpoKen or any other admin or mod might react with a ban and that person wouldn't be able anymore to post in this forum. You can actually "act" with words to change reality: i.e. if the marriage registrar ask you whether you want to marry that women that is with you and your answer is "yes", you change your status to "married" which has a big influence to the reality surrounding you, i.e. taxes etc. In linguistics that is called acting due to language. That's why some people cannot just ignore what Sonnen said to Silva, about his wife, about Brazil and his people etc. prior to the fight.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Voiceless said:


> Actually no, it was about the question whether "words are just words" and they are not. "Words" do have an influence on reality. If someone uses the wrong words in this forum i.e. offensive words, SpoKen or any other admin or mod might react with a ban and that person wouldn't be able anymore to post in this forum. You can actually "act" with words to change reality: i.e. if the marriage registrar ask you whether you want to marry that women that is with you and your answer is "yes", you change your status to "married" which has a big influence to the reality surrounding you, i.e. taxes etc. In linguistics that is called acting due to language. That's why some people cannot just ignore what Sonnen said to Silva, about his wife, about Brazil and his people etc. prior to the fight.


Well words that signify which "action" or "Choice" you want to take is different then trash talk. You cant clump saying "Yes" to marriage with telling Anderson he sucks.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Well words that signify which "action" or "Choice" you want to take is different then trash talk. You cant clump saying "Yes" to marriage with telling Anderson he sucks.


Those have a difference, yes, but take the other example. The bottom line is, words do have an impact on reality.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Voiceless said:


> Those have a difference, yes, but take the other example. The bottom line is, words do have an impact on reality.


Thats still up to the human. Words dont have any power that we dont give them.


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## tie (Oct 9, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> Thats EXACTLY what it did have.
> 
> Chael would have taken Anderson down on 2 different occasions against the fence if Anderson didnt hold on to the shorts to establish underhooks. He didnt have underhooks thus he grabbed on to the shorts to simulate the barrier underhooks give.* This is coming from someone who wrestled for 5 years and currently trains MMA. *The people who say "Well it looked like Anderson would have defended the takedown anyway" are simply Anderson fans. He didnt hold on to the shorts for dear life for no reason, that alone should let them know they are wrong.
> 
> ...


Just to poin out the absurdity of the situation, a random poster on MMAforum with self-claimed uncertain credentials claims one thing and Chael Sonnen with certain experience claims another thing. Which comment should wiegh more? :confused02:


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Thats still up to the human. Words dont have any power that we dont give them.


Of course, but there are certain conventions in society. That's why we accept the "yes" at a marriage to be the sign/act of the actual marriage with all the consequences, and that's why a lot of people feel "offensive" language to be offensive.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

Voiceless said:


> Of course, but there are certain conventions in society. That's why we accept the "yes" at a marriage to be the sign/act of the actual marriage with all the consequences, and that's why a lot of people feel "offensive" language to be offensive.


Chael Sonnen also carried around a fake belt in which he claimed he stole from Anderson's house as a thief in the night.

Trash talk is trash talk, but it doesn't give ANYONE the right to blatantly break rules.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

tie said:


> Just to poin out the absurdity of the situation, a random poster on MMAforum with self-claimed uncertain credentials claims one thing and Chael Sonnen with certain experience claims another thing. Which comment should wiegh more? :confused02:


You dont have to believe me. It doesnt matter much to me. But since you cant figure out why Chael would be in the worst position to say something about the shorts grabbing let me explain it for you. Oh btw YOU are a random poster... 

If Chael Sonnen complains then people are just going to claim he is whining. And lets not forget his trt issue after the first fight. *He(Chael) is in no position to scream foul.* + he lost the fight and wants to be a good sport about everything. Nothing wrong with that.
This is common sense.

Even Chaels fans are being called whiners. So there is no way around it. Unless you say "Yes he beat me!" you are going to get people claiming you are just being a sore loser. Whether there is truth in the statement or not.

btw..
What did Chael Sonnen say??? If i remember his speech was pretty much just saying he is going to do it to someone down the line so itl even itself out. It seemed to me he just wanted to move on from it instead of coming off as making excuses.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

I'll be honest. I was expecting foul play in this fight, and was pleasantly surprised by how tame it was.

When Chael was sat against the fence I thought 'Oh dear he is going to get kicked or kneed in the face and Anderson is not going to care if he gets disqualified, RIP Sonnen'. Silva was brutal and legal all at the same time, which of course we see often in this sport but the emotional drama of this fight is the kind that makes fighters do wrong.

If you can't appreciate Anderson's performance here, I don't understand your standards.


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## tie (Oct 9, 2011)

SideWays222 said:


> You dont have to believe me. It doesnt matter much to me. But since you cant figure out why Chael would be in the worst position to say something about the shorts grabbing let me explain it for you. Oh btw YOU are a random poster...
> 
> If Chael Sonnen complains then people are just going to claim he is whining. And lets not forget his trt issue after the first fight. *He(Chael) is in no position to scream foul.* + he lost the fight and wants to be a good sport about everything. Nothing wrong with that.
> This is common sense.
> ...


Ah, so Sonnen, or his camp, did not contest the results or refereeing of the fight because he does not want to be seen as a sore loser. And you came to this, oh so obvious, conclusion due to the glaringly obvious clue of Sonnen not saying anything closely resembling that. 

Sorry to brake this to you, but you're as random as anyone of us here. Appealing to authority with personal credentials that can't be veryfied in any meaningful way does not a compelling argument make.

Here is the quote:
"Yeah, Anderson grabbed my shorts, but I grabbed his right back. It goes both ways. We can't sit and nitpick some of that stuff. It's a two-man sport. It's kind of like moving the chains in football. It evens itself out. Anderson grabbed my shorts tonight. I'll grab somebody else's sometime down the road."

I took from that, that Sonnen does not think the episode had much of an effect if any on the outcome of the fight. This coming from someone with extensive familiarity of Steven Seagal movies and is currently on the watch for new ones.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

SM33 said:


> I'll be honest. I was expecting foul play in this fight, and was pleasantly surprised by how tame it was.
> 
> When Chael was sat against the fence I thought 'Oh dear he is going to get kicked or kneed in the face and Anderson is not going to care if he gets disqualified, RIP Sonnen'. Silva was brutal and legal all at the same time, which of course we see often in this sport but the emotional drama of this fight is the kind that makes fighters do wrong.
> 
> If you can't appreciate Anderson's performance here, I don't understand your standards.


Personaly I can't appreciate his performance because he cheated his way to a victory.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

SM33 said:


> I'll be honest. I was expecting foul play in this fight, and was pleasantly surprised by how tame it was.
> 
> When Chael was sat against the fence I thought 'Oh dear he is going to get kicked or kneed in the face and Anderson is not going to care if he gets disqualified, RIP Sonnen'. Silva was brutal and legal all at the same time, which of course we see often in this sport but the emotional drama of this fight is the kind that makes fighters do wrong.
> 
> If you can't appreciate Anderson's performance here, I don't understand your standards.


For a second I thought Anderson had lost his mind and kneed sonnen in the face right in front of the ref. I'm glad that wasn't the case he kept his composure and not let years of hard work go down the drain. Even though I think it would have been great if he had broken sonnens nose with a knee.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> Personaly I can't appreciate his performance because he cheated his way to a victory.


They all grab shorts until the ref tells them not to, they all grab the fence until the ref tells them not to.

Knee to the chest? Ref can't tell you not to do that.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

americanfighter said:


> Personaly I can't appreciate his performance because he cheated his way to a victory.


Hahaha. What goes around comes around. If Anderson cheated his way to victory this time, Chael cheated his way to failure last time. God, not even cheating he is able to win...


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

SM33 said:


> They all grab shorts until the ref tells them not to, they all grab the fence until the ref tells them not to.
> 
> Knee to the chest? Ref can't tell you not to do that.


I have no problems with the knee. 

People grab shorts/cage all the time but most of the time it's not intentional. I've done it befor in practice without realizing it till someone tells I understand that. However I believe silva went in that second round full knowing that if he was close to a take down he was going to grab the shorts and stopthe td at all costs. Also he greased. Finally I hold the champion to higher standards than the rest of the roster.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

SpoKen said:


> I didn't think that was truly the case... but are you basically saying that Anderson isn't responsible for his own actions? ............................So is Anderson not responsible for his own actions?


I have no clue how you concluded something like this. 

A Police Officer pinches my wife's butt. I'll tell in court I am responsible for his black eye. We are always responsible for our actions, being triggered by others or not.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Hahaha. What goes around comes around. If Anderson cheated his way to victory this time, Chael cheated his way to failure last time. God, not even cheating he is able to win...


The funny thing about that "what goes around comes around" in this case is that without Sonnen's cheating he probably wouldn't have looked that dominant in the first fight and consequently wouldn't have gotten the rematch that easily. So that little short grabbing in return would equal that cheated chance of a rematch...


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> I have no clue how you concluded something like this.
> 
> A Police Officer pinches my wife's butt. I'll tell in court I am responsible for his black eye. We are always responsible for our actions, being triggered by others or not.


Exactly, you gotta take the punishment, right?

Anderson takes no punishment at all. And I think that altered the fight enough to be worthy of a fine or whatever small infraction thing they get for cheating their way to a victory inside the cage, and outside for his shoulder strike.

You could tell it hurt Chael's jaw, and technically that's assault.

I don't think it's all that serious, but I don't think he should get away with it and get nothing in return.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

C´mon, ppl. It´s just weird to suggest that the turning point of the fight was the shorts grabbing thing after Chael did zero during the first round even when in the most dominant position in MMA (Full Mount).

The real turning point of the fight was the unbelievable ability of Anderson to knock down Sonnen without even touching him. That´s right. The invisible trip. Sonnen is probably the best wrestler in MMA today. Even his fans were caught by surprise by that spinning elbow he attempted. Sonnen was absolutely sure Anderson would never imagine he would try something like that so he went full force. He was right on betting on that, that was actually really smart. However, there are, so far, no stealth intentions to go undetected by the Spider super-radar.raise01:


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

SpoKen said:


> You could tell it hurt Chael's jaw, and technically that's assault.
> 
> I don't think it's all that serious, but I don't think he should get away with it and get nothing in return.


I agree with you here. I did not appreciate that at all. I can clearly see where that came from, but he should have been at least fined for not holding his anger. 

I believe UFC felt it would be tricky before the public to punish Anderson considering they never asked Sonnen to moderate his attacks or condemn them in public. Dana had some pressure about that in some conferences, but he always dodged the issue: "Well, that´s Chael...Well, you know Chael..."

However, in the cage, about the shorts, I did not appreciate that either, but since there´s no yellow card in UFC, like in soccer, he was called attention and stopped, otherwise it would be a yellow card only. No big deal at all.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> The real turning point of the fight was the unbelievable ability of Anderson to knock down Sonnen without even touching him. That´s right. The invisible trip. Sonnen is probably the best wrestler in MMA today. Even his fans were caught by surprise by that spinning elbow he attempted. Sonnen was absolutely sure Anderson would never imagine he would try something like that so he went full force. He was right on betting on that, that was actually really smart. However, there are, so far, no stealth intentions to go undetected by the Spider super-radar.raise01:












Just had to copy SigFig's signature picture that somehow fits the case:










which led to:









and finally:


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## StandThemUp (May 30, 2008)

SpoKen said:


> All the time? Name one fight where a fighter held someones shorts for 20 straight seconds. Hell, 10 straight seconds even. I'm sure 10 seconds has been done once.. maybe. But name one. Name 3 if it happens all the time.


You got me, I can't name a fight where a fighter held the opponents shorts for 20 straight seconds. Unfortunately for you, that includes Silva vs Sonnen II


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

StandThemUp said:


> You got me, I can't name a fight where a fighter held the opponents shorts for 20 straight seconds. Unfortunately for you, that includes Silva vs Sonnen II


If you want to be technical, 18 seconds. Go ahead and count it, I already saw it several times.


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## Gustafsson Fan (Apr 3, 2012)

Andersson Silva IMO threw a reckless knee strike in his fight vs Sonnen. While his kneecap hit Sonnens torso, his thigh smashed into Sonnens face. Was this expected or can we really believe he did that technique without seeing it would likely make contact with sonnens face?

I was wondering, is kneeing opponent with thigh in face legal ? Is this technique possible to do without hitting opponents face?

If it is legit, will we see others use this technique?
What happens if someone hits the face using this technique can one just say it was unintentional?
When Jon Bones Jones threw downward elbows to the eye sockets on Matt Hamill it led to rule changes that downward elbows to the face was no longer legit. I see this Silva situation as similar.

My opinion is that Andersson Silva knew it was a gray zone opportunity when he threw that knee.


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## mmaswe82 (Feb 22, 2010)

Gustafsson Fan said:


> Andersson Silva IMO threw a reckless knee strike in his fight vs Sonnen. While his kneecap hit Sonnens torso, his thigh smashed into Sonnens face. Was this expected or can we really believe he did that technique without seeing it would likely make contact with sonnens face?
> 
> I was wondering, is kneeing opponent with thigh in face legal ? Is this technique possible to do without hitting opponents face?
> 
> ...


They where illegal before he did it.

Regarding kness to the body, they have been done before & they are perfectly legal. Hitting the face with some soft part of the body on certain occasions is really hard to get around & IMO shouldn't matter since it doesn't do damage. 
I seriously doubt there will be any changes to the rules regarding this.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

I can't believe people are STILL going on about the knee. Nothing about it was illegal. It hit directly in the chest. He aimed it there. It landed there. The ref looked, and didn't intervene. It was deemed legal by Rogan after watching a replay. Dana White said it was 100% legal. CHAEL said it was legal.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

K R Y said:


> I can't believe people are STILL going on about the knee. Nothing about it was illegal. It hit directly in the chest. He aimed it there. It landed there. The ref looked, and didn't intervene. It was deemed legal by Rogan after watching a replay. Dana White said it was 100% legal. CHAEL said it was legal.


I dunno bro. Ive been saying the exact same thing, but the gif that was posted:-










Whoever did the gif paused it at the point of impact. Reluctantly, I have to concede the top of the knee does hit Sonnen in the face first. The knee then drops down to the chest. It all happens so quickly in realtime.

Damn it. I was convinced it was legit. :thumbsdown:


EDIT
Thinking about it, if Silva was trying to hit Sonnen in the face, what was he thinking? Would he really throw away the belt just so he can make Sonnen eat his own teeth for real? If so... then I'm impressed.


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## otronegro (Aug 23, 2011)

If that knee did hit him in the face Sonnen would now be toothless, with a purple eye and with a twisted nose, AT LEAST.

but no, his baby face is intact so you guys can stop worring about it.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

That gif is misleading. Freeze it on your tv it hits the chest first.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

While that gif does look bad, I was watching the HD version and saw that it hit the chest.

Sure, you could make the case that his thigh hit Chael's face... but.. I don't think that matters. The real issue is the 20 second shorts grab and shoulder strike at weigh ins.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> I dunno bro. Ive been saying the exact same thing, but the gif that was posted:-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think it's as bad as you say - but it's not as clear-cut as most say it is, either. Looks to me like the point of the knee hit at the manubrium, while the top of his knee hit his chin.

Inconsequential at this point though.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Woodenhead said:


> I don't think it's as bad as you say - but it's not as clear-cut as most say it is, either. Looks to me like the point of the knee hit at the manubrium, while the top of his knee hit his chin.
> 
> Inconsequential at this point though.


Not trying to convince anybody. Just pointing out that I personally thought the knee was legal but after looking at that gif my opinion has changed. I'm not particularly happy about it.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

No prob, Sooj - I wasn't really arguing the point, but just throwing in my own opinion with yours. We're pretty much on the same page with this, I'd say- I'm not happy about it, either. Too bad most are too swept up with emotion & bias to see it.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

That still isn't a perfect enough angle to say it was knee and not thigh. The


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Soojooko said:


> Not trying to convince anybody. Just pointing out that I personally thought the knee was legal but after looking at that gif my opinion has changed. I'm not particularly happy about it.





Woodenhead said:


> No prob, Sooj - I wasn't really arguing the point, but just throwing in my own opinion with yours. We're pretty much on the same page with this, I'd say- I'm not happy about it, either. Too bad most are too swept up with emotion & bias to see it.


The problem is that the gif is misleading. When I freeze it on my TV in HD it is obvious where the knee lands. Sure it might graze his head, but wHY WOULD THAT MATTER?

Anyways, like Spoken said, if you wanna be mad at Anderson that is not the thing to get mad about. The shorts are much worse.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Ape City said:


> The problem is that the gif is misleading. When I freeze it on my TV in HD it is obvious where the knee lands. Sure it might graze his head, but wHY WOULD THAT MATTER?
> 
> Anyways, like Spoken said, if you wanna be mad at Anderson that is not the thing to get mad about. The shorts are much worse.


Youre making it more complicated then it is Ape, old buddy. I was simply putting it on record that my opinion on the knee has changed. Nothing more. Nothing less.

The shorts thing isn't debatable. Silva cheated. No argument from me. Do I care? Not a bit. I'm glad he won and that's all I give a shit about.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Gustafsson Fan said:


> I was wondering, is kneeing opponent with thigh in face legal ?


A knee is a knee, a thigh is a thigh. If Anderson wanted, that knee would hit Chael's upper right molar, if that was the tooth he was aiming.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Check on Chael's head and torso. If Anderson's knee or the thigh would hit (note that HIT is the word used) his face or jaw, his head would be thrown up and backward. Instead, his whole body is thrown backward and the angle between his neck ant his torso does not increase, showing the impact ocurred on his chest. As planned.

http://i49.tinypic.com/2hfi8ux.gif


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> A knee is a knee, a thigh is a thigh. If Anderson wanted, that knee would hit Chael's upper right molar, if that was the tooth he was aiming.


But is the motion of "Kneeing" a person in the face illegal. Or is only hitting him with the specific body part "Knee" illegal. MY GUESS would be the whole action of kneeing someone is illegal. Because imagine someone kneeing an downed opponent in the head BUT did it fully with the thigh. I would almost stake my life that the Ref would call it.




MMA-Sportsman said:


> Check on Chael's head and torso. If Anderson's knee or the thigh would hit (note that HIT is the word used) his face or jaw, his head would be thrown up and backward. Instead, his whole body is thrown backward and the angle between his neck ant his torso does not increase, showing the impact ocurred on his chest. As planned.
> 
> http://i49.tinypic.com/2hfi8ux.gif












The Thigh CLEARLY hits Chaels jaw and its the first impact.

AND

If someone knees a downed person with the angle going down towards the chin then that would actually cause his head to move inward instead of bouncing outward.

That said

Chaels jaw gets hit with the thigh first and his head starts bouncing backward because the thigh is a straight impact and not a downward angle impact. THEN the knee hits the chest.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> But is the motion of "Kneeing" a person in the face illegal. Or is only hitting him with the specific body part "Knee" illegal. MY GUESS would be the whole action of kneeing someone is illegal. Because imagine someone kneeing an downed opponent in the head BUT did it fully with the thigh. I would almost stake my life that the Ref would call it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Targeting is part of it. Say you were back side control and clearly targeted the head with a knee but hit with the thigh that would likely be considered a foul. Anderson targeted the body so the thigh hitting is incidental contact. If you land an actual knee strike to the head whether you targeted it or not that is obviously a foul. The motion is not illegal by itself it requires contact and/or targeting.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

osmium said:


> Targeting is part of it. Say you were back side control and clearly targeted the head with a knee but hit with the thigh that would likely be considered a foul. Anderson targeted the body so the thigh hitting is incidental contact. If you land an actual knee strike to the head whether you targeted it or not that is obviously a foul. The motion is not illegal by itself it requires contact and/or targeting.


Yeah i understand/know all that. I certainly dont think Anderson should have been called on it. 
That said im not so sure that "Kneeing the head motion" with the thigh is legal. I know the "motion" is legal BUT if your targeting the head then i think it changes things. 
I dont believe your allowed to knee someone in the head even if it is the thigh your using. 

But yeah Anderson was clearly aiming for the chest and making contact with the thigh to the chin seems hard to avoid. (Incidental contact as you called it)
And if for some reason it was a "foul" then anyone on the receding end of it can easily exploit it by forcing their chin to touch the thigh while getting hit. Which is something we should avoid. Its enough for me to give Anderson a pass. We dont need people exploiting more shit rules. So yea i see no reason to call foul on accidental thigh to chin contact when hitting the chest. 

Now if you miss the chest all together and hit the chin with the thigh... then i think it is illegal and rightly so.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> The Thigh CLEARLY hits Chaels jaw and its the first impact.
> 
> AND
> 
> ...


How can you say the Thigh CLEARLY(in CAPS) hits Chael's jaw first when his left arm is covering everything? X-Ray vision? As I said before, there was never an impact (impact I say, not contact) on his face/jaw by the movement of his body as a whole. His head never bounced as you said. The knee lands clearly in the middle of the chest. 

BTW, basic anatomy classes for those who believe a thigh and a knee are all the same.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> How can you say the Thigh CLEARLY(in CAPS) hits Chael's jaw first when his left arm is covering everything? X-Ray vision? As I said before, there was never an impact (impact I say, not contact) on his face/jaw by the movement of his body as a whole. His head never bounced as you said. The knee lands clearly in the middle of the chest.
> 
> BTW, basic anatomy classes for those who believe a thigh and a knee are all the same.


Yes. I just rewatched that scene again on full screen, the slo-mo replay at 0.1x speed and image by image. There could be a slight _contact_ by the face to the thigh (Sonnen brings his head slightly forward when tensing his neck muscles to prepare for a possible impact), but that's not sure - you cannot really tell as his arm covers the thigh line, but from movement (or better non movement) of his head there for sure was definitely no _impact_ at all on his head. This arguing about the knee has to stop.

What's weird, there's nothing more to be heard about Sonnen's tongue biting and those eight stitches he supposedly needed. In all those interviews he gave after the fight, he obviously had no issues with his tongues and could speak perfectly well.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

If anything hit the jaw, it was the thigh. Although to me it looks, if the thigh does hit, it hits the nose/cheek area.

Inconsequential.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

The thigh and knee are two different body parts just like the elbow and forearm. So please get over it already.


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## capcom1 (Dec 31, 2006)

Still a lot of butt hurt people i see , You American's sure are shitty loser's , You will try to find an excuse for anything that involves a Yank getting beat by a foreigner , Give it a rest , Geez


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Seriously guys. Give this a rest. The knee was legal. The only people doubting that are keyboard warriors.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> How can you say the Thigh CLEARLY(in CAPS) hits Chael's jaw first when his left arm is covering everything? X-Ray vision? As I said before, there was never an impact (impact I say, not contact) on his face/jaw by the movement of his body as a whole. His head never bounced as you said. The knee lands clearly in the middle of the chest.
> 
> BTW, basic anatomy classes for those who believe a thigh and a knee are all the same.


Because his head starts bouncing back before the knee hits the chest. I can see it clear as day. 

What are you even talking about?? You can say whatever you want but his head clearly bounces back for a split second. You eyes just probably suck.


For everyone else
Who is arguing about the knee hitting the chest??

There is 5 posts about people saying "Quit complaining about the knee hitting the chest"
But no one is arguing about the knee hitting the chest or that its illegal. 
Read past the first page for **** sake.
ALMOST everyone agrees that the knee hits the chest and not the jaw.
People you need to quit making assumptions when you post.


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## StandThemUp (May 30, 2008)

Soojooko said:


> I dunno bro. Ive been saying the exact same thing, but the gif that was posted:-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can't tell at all from that GIF because Chael's left arm is blocking the view.
And with the view blocked, if you are a Chael Fan, it hit him in the face, if you are a Silva fan it hit him in the chest.

Get over it. It's inconclusive at best. The Ref called it legal, and even CHAEL didn't complain about.

And if that's not enough, if I remember correctly, he got back up after that. So it hardly ended the fight. It was the punches after Chael got up that ended the fight, not the phantom knee to the face.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

StandThemUp said:


> You can't tell at all from that GIF because Chael's left arm is blocking the view.
> And with the view blocked, if you are a Chael Fan, it hit him in the face, if you are a Silva fan it hit him in the chest.
> 
> Get over it. It's inconclusive at best. The Ref called it legal, and even CHAEL didn't complain about.
> ...


*sigh*

No. I'm a BIG Silva fan and I say it hit him in the face. Like I said before, I'm not trying to convince anybody. Just my personal opinion after seeing the gif. Maybe you should read my posts before you jump to conclusions.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> *Because his head starts bouncing back* before the knee hits the chest. I can see it clear as day.
> 
> What are you even talking about?? *You can say whatever you want but his head clearly bounces back *for a split second. You eyes just probably suck.


No it doesn't. Either my full fight full screen recording is worse than that tiny gif or your eyes are not as good as you think. I watched that scene multiple times on full screen at different speeds down to 0.1x speed and even image by image. The head keeps perfectly in line with the rest of the body. Sonnen's body gets pushed backwards by the knee and the head in alignment with the body consequently also has a backwards motion. You may have the false impression, because the arm moves downwards a little bit and consequently the face becomes more visible, but the head doesn't bounce back. There is *no impact* by the thigh to the head. Whether there is a slight _contact_ you cannot tell, because Sonnen's arm blocks the vision at the moment in question.


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## cookiefritas (Jun 17, 2011)

The only way to set this once and for all is to get a TRILOGY down the line. 

I know that I would pay to see them fight one more time.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

I didn't pay to see them fight the second time. I sure as hell won't pay for a third.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

cookiefritas said:


> The only way to set this once and for all is to get a TRILOGY down the line.
> 
> I know that I would pay to see them fight one more time.


Why¿ So Sonnen enters the Octagon with even less confidence and gets stopped for the third time¿ You must really hate Sonnen.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> Because his head starts bouncing back before the knee hits the chest. I can see it clear as day.


Actually, the very first contact occurs between the top of Anderson's Thigh with the left elbow of Sonnen. You can check by Sonnen's arm muscles/tissue reverberating after that.

And plus: You have to check the definition of the verb "to bounce"...


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## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

> Actually, the very first contact occurs between the top of Anderson's Thigh with the left elbow of Sonnen. You can check by Sonnen's arm muscles/tissue reverberating after that.


LOL @ the CSI-level of ballisitics analysis in this thread. Loving it! 

.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Actually, the very first contact occurs between the top of Anderson's Thigh with the left elbow of Sonnen. You can check by Sonnen's arm muscles/tissue reverberating after that.
> 
> And plus: You have to check the definition of the verb *"to bounce"*...


Lol yes sir.

Well if i was with you in person im sure i could explain/show it to you. Online your just gonna keep your schtick up. If YOU cant see it you cant see it. You probably dont want to see it thus your not. Or your eyes suck. 

His thigh hits the chin.





Voiceless said:


> No it doesn't. Either my full fight full screen recording is worse than that tiny gif or your eyes are not as good as you think. I watched that scene multiple times on full screen at different speeds down to 0.1x speed and even image by image. The head keeps perfectly in line with the rest of the body. Sonnen's body gets pushed backwards by the knee and the head in alignment with the body consequently also has a backwards motion. You may have the false impression, because the arm moves downwards a little bit and consequently the face becomes more visible, but the head doesn't bounce back. There is *no impact* by the thigh to the head. Whether there is a slight _contact_ you cannot tell, because Sonnen's arm blocks the vision at the moment in question.


The thigh hits the chin. You can talk about all this CSI stuff you have done but it doesnt change anything. 

*I took the GIF to NASAs Headquarters and after collaborating with 50 of the worlds top scientists we have determined the Thigh hits the chin.*


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## Sterl (Jul 26, 2009)

Although the guy is acting a little too hostile over everyone's own perception of it, I agree with him when I say it is pretty hard to tell since the actual view is obstructed. Chael's head and body seem to both be knocked backward at the same time to me. I will admit that I'm not nearly as sold now that it was perfectly legal as I was before however.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Sterl said:


> Although the guy is acting a little too hostile over everyone's own perception of it, I agree with him when I say it is pretty hard to tell since the actual view is obstructed. Chael's head and body seem to both be knocked backward at the same time to me. I will admit that I'm not nearly as sold now that it was perfectly legal as I was before however.


Well i still think the knee is PERFECTLY legal. The thigh to the chin is incidental contact that made no difference. The fact that it happened though is obvious to me.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> The thigh hits the chin. You can talk about all this CSI stuff you have done but it doesnt change anything.


Boring copied supposedly cool remark is boring. Ok, stick to your tiny gif. If you think that's better for your perception, so be it...


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> Well i still think the knee is PERFECTLY legal. The thigh to the chin is incidental contact that made no difference. The fact that it happened though is obvious to me.


If the knee is legal and the thigh contact is incidental then who gives a shit?! You and others have been arguing over **** all nothing since the fight happened. If everybody - except for Soojookoo - believes the knee was legal why is this thread still going?

Seriously does that make sense?


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> Lol yes sir.
> 
> Well if i was with you in person im sure i could explain/show it to you. Online your just gonna keep your schtick up. If YOU cant see it you cant see it. You probably dont want to see it thus your not. Or your eyes suck.


Only you can see what you claim. You are as blind as your avatar. :confused03:


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

deadmanshand said:


> If the knee is legal and the thigh contact is incidental then who gives a shit?! You and others have been arguing over **** all nothing since the fight happened. If everybody - except for Soojookoo - believes the knee was legal why is this thread still going?
> 
> Seriously does that make sense?


Have you seen my replys?? Iv barely been arguing it. Iv just been laughing a bit at the CSI employees we got. Their the ones with their panties up in a bunch. I basically just let my position on the subject be known.



MMA-Sportsman said:


> Only you can see what you claim. You are as blind as your avatar. :confused03:


Ok bud. Il recommended you to a good eye doctor. 

And the avatar aint blind. GET IT RIGHT DAMN IT!


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## tap nap or snap (Jan 28, 2009)

I think the force of the knee drove sonnen's chest back and as a result his head whips down to the thigh, before jerking back up, like whiplash in a car accident... ragdoll physics


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

SideWays222 said:


> The thigh hits the chin. You can talk about all this CSI stuff you have done but it doesnt change anything.
> 
> *I took the GIF to NASAs Headquarters and after collaborating with 50 of the worlds top scientists we have determined the Thigh hits the chin.*


Well, this folks is the perfect example of a hard core Chael's fan. This would not be a complete discussion board without it, lets face it. He is not only in love with the fighting skills of his idol but also with his incredible brave face when producing undeniable truths out of his own imagination. Keep up the good work, Side. This is as close as stating you are the real Champion and carrying a fake belt...fake before the eyes of the infidels, of course... :thumbsup: 

PS: The CSI remark was actually real clever and funny. You were not the author, though.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

tap nap or snap said:


> I think the force of the knee drove sonnen's chest back and as a result *his head whips down to the thigh*, before jerking back up, like whiplash in a car accident... ragdoll physics


Illegal headbutt!!!


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## StandThemUp (May 30, 2008)

americanfighter said:


> Personaly I can't appreciate his performance because he cheated his way to a victory.


What's the internet shorthand for "You have to be fricken kidding me and you can't be serious"?

Is it: YHTBFKMAYCBS!

That seems to bulky. There must be something shorter.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Well, this folks is the perfect example of a hard core Chael's fan. This would not be a complete discussion board without it, lets face it. He is not only in love with the fighting skills of his idol but also with his incredible brave face when producing undeniable truths out of his own imagination. Keep up the good work, Side. This is as close as stating you are the real Champion and carrying a fake belt...fake before the eyes of the infidels, of course... :thumbsup:
> 
> PS: The CSI remark was actually real clever and funny. You were not the author, though.


Hard core Chael fan?? Im not even arguing that the knee isnt legal.

Hahahaha

Your more of an Anderson fan then i am a Chael fan.

And the Nasa comment was a joke. But ofcourse you replied to it like well that.... I got a laugh out of your reply so atleast some good came from it. Thank you sir.


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## StandThemUp (May 30, 2008)

Soojooko said:


> I dunno bro. Ive been saying the exact same thing, but the gif that was posted:-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I couldn't disagree more on two counts.

1. I don't see the point of the knee hitting Chael in the face at all. If it did, he would be missing teeth. That knee was full force and there wasn't a mark on Chael's face to suggest a knee of that power hit him square in the face. If it did, his face would leave no doubt by it's injuries, and yet his face did leave a doubt. Because it had no injuries consistent with a knee of that power making contact.

2. How the hell do you know what Silva was intending to do? In fact you don't. I find it hard to believe he intended to hit him in the face, but instead, landed a perfectly aimed knee to the center of his chest. 

What's more likely, he aimed for the face and missed by landing a perfectly placed shot to the chest? Or the most accurate fighter in UFC history landed a knee exactly where he intended, which was to the chest?

The answer is obvious to all non-bias observers.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

StandThemUp said:


> I couldn't disagree more on two counts.
> 
> 1. I don't see the point of the knee hitting Chael in the face at all. If it did, he would be missing teeth. That knee was full force and there wasn't a mark on Chael's face to suggest a knee of that power hit him square in the face. If it did, his face would leave no doubt by it's injuries, and yet his face did leave a doubt. Because it had no injuries consistent with a knee of that power making contact.
> 
> ...


Firstly, I didnt say the knee hit him in the face hard... simply that it did hit him in the face.

Secondly, I don't know. That's why I prefixed my comment with "Thinking about it...". I was merely talking out loud about what I was "thinking".

Thirdly, there you go with the "bias" comment again. If you think I'm a Chael fan you really need to pay more attention.


All in all, I'm quite flattered that you would take so much interest in my personal opinion. I wasn't engaging anybody. I simply saw the gif and thought "Wow... I might be wrong about the knee ". I decided to share my thoughts. Thats it. That is what you call "unbiased"... seeing as I usually polish Andersons testicles daily.

I'm 100% not interested in getting forensic with anybody about it.

The End.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Soojooko said:


> Firstly, I didnt say the knee hit him in the face hard... simply that it did hit him in the face.
> 
> Secondly, I don't know. That's why I prefixed my comment with "Thinking about it...". I was merely talking out loud about what I was "thinking".
> 
> ...


You want to come to NASA with me instead of the CSI building.?? They have the worlds top scientists over there dissecting all the gifs/pics. You can role with me and we can see what they discovered since the last time i visited. You down?


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> You want to come to NASA with me instead of the CSI building.?? They have the worlds top scientists over there dissecting all the gifs/pics. You can role with me and we can see what they discovered since the last time i visited. You down?


I would rather pull out my toenails with pliers.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Soojooko said:


> I would rather pull out my toenails with pliers.


And here i thought we could bond a bit. :sad02:

Well your loss. 

Im going to go conversate with the worlds top scientists since thats more on my level anyway. 

Your missing out on seeing a HQ gif of the knee/chest hit on a HUGE 50 foot tv screen in 3D. But its different then the 3D you are thinking off. We put on these goggles and it allows us to "Free Roam" the picture as if it were a room. I can see every angle and more. Its similar to the "spectator" mode in Counter Striker after you died. Just better...


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

SideWays222 said:


> And here i thought we could bond a bit. :sad02:
> 
> Well your loss.
> 
> ...


... where are those fecking pliers?!


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Soojooko said:


> ... where are those fecking pliers?!


Make sure you catch it on video before you do it. Il send you the pliers if necessary. 

Itl be good for a laugh when im with buncha friends. :thumb02:


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Soojooko said:


> I'm 100% not interested in getting forensic with anybody about it.


This CSI/NASA joke is officially worn out. Forensic Science have nothing to do with simply checking on the fight video what happened, what btw was the same source of your evaluations. There are several visual clues that cannot be detected unless replaying and this is just easy and normal any broadcast event will do it. 
What you just said is you got your impression and is no longer interested in review it. Noted. 

In the other hand, you could/should call Forensic a blood or urine test made after the fight to check for illegal substaces/levels and yet we accept this reports to ground our opinions and bring then to the board.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> What you just said is you got your impression and is no longer interested in review it. Noted.


Dude... me changing my mind about the knee *is* me reviewing my opinion. Up until posting in this thread, I was convinced the knee was 100% legal. Now, not so much. Stick that in your notebook.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Soojooko said:


> Dude... me changing my mind about the knee *is* me reviewing my opinion.


My point was about the Forensic part, Soo. Totally respect your opinion.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> My point was about the Forensic part, Soo. Totally respect your opinion.


Shit... did I just brainfart?


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Soojooko said:


> Shit... did I just brainfart?


No. Not over this, you did not. :thumb02:


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