# Wanderlei Silva - Overrated?



## rezin (May 28, 2007)

I like to consider myself fairly knwoledgeable about MMA fighting but I have not had much opportunity to watch many pride fights so therefore I base most of my judgement of a fighter on results of fights and style of fighting used by fighters. For the last several years I hear all this commotion about the greatest match ever would be Wanderlei v. Chuck and it seemed like Dana was creaming his pants to sign this guy. Im just curious why this guy is considered so good. He has lost his last 2 fights. I saw the match of him and Vitor belfort 9 years ago and he got demolished. Tito beat him fair and square. I know he is very exciting but in all honesty is he that good? 

If anyone would care to comment on whether you think he is still has a lot left in him after his last two losses I would love to hear about that too


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

rezin said:


> I like to consider myself fairly knwoledgeable about MMA fighting but I have not had much opportunity to watch many pride fights so therefore I base most of my judgement of a fighter on results of fights and style of fighting used by fighters. For the last several years I hear all this commotion about the greatest match ever would be Wanderlei v. Chuck and it seemed like Dana was creaming his pants to sign this guy. Im just curious why this guy is considered so good. He has lost his last 2 fights. I saw the match of him and Vitor belfort 9 years ago and he got demolished. Tito beat him fair and square. I know he is very exciting but in all honesty is he that good?
> 
> If anyone would care to comment on whether you think he is still has a lot left in him after his last two losses I would love to hear about that too


I don't know dude, you have the internet, so maybe you should, i don't know.....GO ******* EDUCATE YOURSELF!?


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## sirdilznik (Nov 21, 2006)

I find it hard to call the greatest Pride champion of all time overrated. He held that belt for 5 years and fought some brutal competition along the way.


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## e-thug (Jan 18, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> I don't know dude, you have the internet, so maybe you should, i don't know.....GO ******* EDUCATE YOURSELF!?



No doubt man, seriously go look at Wanderlei's resume. Lets put it this way, he absolutely destroyed Rampage 2X and he is the UFC champion.


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## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

rezin said:


> I like to consider myself fairly knwoledgeable about MMA fighting but I have not had much opportunity to watch many pride fights so therefore I base most of my judgement of a fighter on results of fights and style of fighting used by fighters. For the last several years I hear all this commotion about the greatest match ever would be Wanderlei v. Chuck and it seemed like Dana was creaming his pants to sign this guy. Im just curious why this guy is considered so good. He has lost his last 2 fights. I saw the match of him and Vitor belfort 9 years ago and he got demolished. Tito beat him fair and square. I know he is very exciting but in all honesty is he that good?
> 
> If anyone would care to comment on whether you think he is still has a lot left in him after his last two losses I would love to hear about that too


I don't think he's overrated at all. He defended his belt more times than Tito and held onto it longer. Tito may have beaten Wanderlei but back then Wandy's ground game hadn't even started to develop, allowing Tito to lay on him the whole time. Also lets not forget who was running away from who in the stand-up during that fight.

Wandy isn't overrated, maybe a little rusty lately but he is not overrated at all. Sure some of the guys he's beaten have less than impressive records but he holds some legit win over good fighters as well. 

BTW, You better hope Benny doesn't see this thread as he will start a riot!


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Wanderlei is far from overrated He is probably the most dominate Champion in MMA history.

One of his losses in the UFC was to a fighter in Vitor Belfort who's stand up at the time was scary the punches Vitor threw were so fast He caught Wanderlei and then proceeded to pound the crap out of him. (Kinda like Rampage vs Chuck 2 IMO just faster)

He won the 2003 MWGP Beating Sakuraba, Yoshida, and Rampage who are all world class fighters.

He lost to no one in his weight class for 5 years and he got lay and prayed in his loss to Tito which started the sreak and Arona which ended it.

He is only 31 so he definatly not washed up. He is forming his own gym down in Florida and My money i son him being a top MW for years to come. I doubt he gets the title but who knows.


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## royalking87 (Apr 22, 2007)

um u consider urself mma knowladgeable ur kidding right ur dumb if u think wandy is anywhere near overrated


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

southpaw447 said:


> I don't think he's overrated at all. He defended his belt more times than Tito and held onto it longer. Tito may have beaten Wanderlei but back then Wandy's ground game hadn't even started to develop, allowing Tito to lay on him the whole time. Also lets not forget who was running away from who in the stand-up during that fight.
> 
> Wandy isn't overrated, maybe a little rusty lately but he is not overrated at all. Sure some of the guys he's beaten have less than impressive records but he holds some legit win over good fighters as well.
> 
> BTW, You better hope Benny doesn't see this thread as he will start a riot!


Totally agree...

I have no idea what bouts Rezin watched...

Wandy VS Tito: 'fair and square'???  what the heck kind of review is that? It was a young Wandy wanting to give a good show...only having Tito run his arse OFF.

VS Belfort... he got caught... but FAR from dominated.

2 losses... how about WHO he lost those bouts to 
and HOW he lost em.

You need to stop looking at the numbers and start watching the ACTUAL FIGHTS.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

If you are going by what people were saying before Cro Cop murdered him and Henderson took his belt. Yes he is overrated. He was overrated in the same way Chuck was. They aren't really unstoppable monsters infinitely superior to everyone else in their division like many people made them out to be. He has lost 4 of his last 8 and it should have been 5 because Yoshida won their second fight in my opinion. People are just in love with his style.


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## royalking87 (Apr 22, 2007)

hes overrated but was champion 5 years? i guess we just suck his nutz or somthn


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## AxleZTTic (Jan 3, 2007)

anyone who tries to justify the tito and belfort fights seriously lacks confidence in my man wandy. those fights were right near the begining of his carrer, and since then he friggen demolished just about everyone.

"he's lost twice in a row" cry me a f**kin river, he lost to cro cop in an open weight gp, he was fighting a heavyweight, and cro cop at that.

he lost to henderson after he had been admitted to the hospital the week prior to the fight for some kind of sickness. quite frankly i dont care what sickness. this guys is the sickness, he's sick period.

if you even mention the words overrated and wandy in the same sentence then you should kick your own ass. watch some of his pride fights, the man was undefeated in what, 5-6 years? im too lazy to look it up because i dont give a sh*t. the man is the man, hell he could be president for all i care, id vote for him.

end rant


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## fenderman80 (Sep 12, 2006)

Wandy is my favorite fighter but took a beating against Cro Cop the 2nd time. His problem is that he refuses to back down from anybody. If Tim Sylvia challenged him tommorrow Wandy would be waiting for him in the octagon. Having said that, I think its fair to say that Wandy's body has endured more wear and tear than any onther 31 yr old fighting professionally in MMA (he fought in bare knuckle Vale Tudo for several years in Brazil before entering the MMA scene) I am eagerly awaiting his return to UFC and hope to see dominate again. Its definitely going to be interesting to see where he fits in. IMO he's still probably #4or5 MW in the world right now. And yes he shoudl be ranked above Liddell. Rampage dominated Chuck twice:mistress01: , and Wandy dominated Rampage twice:fight02: . A loss to a HW in an OWGP should not drop him below Liddell


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Wandy came into that fight juiced to the gills weighing more than Cro Cop.


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## DangerMouse666 (Jul 9, 2006)

:laugh: :laugh::confused01: overrated?!:sign04:


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## rezin (May 28, 2007)

Wow didnt think I would get that backlash, for the record I put a question mark at the end, I dont pretend like I know a ton about the guy and I even said that in my post. Not a slight towards the guy at all,

First he clearly did lose the bout to Tito Ive seen the match and I really dont see how anyone can claim he won that match and did he get annihilated by Vitor. I am assuming your point was that he was at the beginning of his career and I buy that. 

He did look amazing against Rampage but the whole point I was bringing up regarding the signing was how the hoopla around this guy was on par with the hoopla around Fedor right now. Dan Henderson didnt receive all this attention before he signed. 

Plus back to back losses can def damage someones confidence so my whole point was whether he was at the end of his peak and the best of wanderlei has come and gone?

I was not stating an argument but rather asking a question

So f all of ya who tries to put someone else down for trying to learn more about a fighter.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

osmium said:


> Wandy came into that fight juiced to the gills weighing more than Cro Cop.


And I am sure Shogun was juiced too because he outweighed Coleman? You are an idiot for making a claim like that.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

rezin said:


> Wow didnt think I would get that backlash, for the record I put a question mark at the end, I dont pretend like I know a ton about the guy and I even said that in my post. Not a slight towards the guy at all,
> 
> First he clearly did lose the bout to Tito Ive seen the match and I really dont see how anyone can claim he won that match and did he get annihilated by Vitor. I am assuming your point was that he was at the beginning of his career and I buy that.
> 
> ...


You can't question anything about Wandy or Fedor on here without being flamed. People keep pointing to shit that stopped 3 years ago what has he done since then. Quinton is the last top level guy he beat and that was in 2004.


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## royalking87 (Apr 22, 2007)

you just dont respect wants happened in the past u rather just blow rampage and liddell


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> And I am sure Shogun was juiced too because he outweighed Coleman? You are an idiot for making a claim like that.


:laugh:


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## daveyboy (Mar 4, 2007)

I wouldnt call Wandy overrated. He was the most dominant striker in all of mma for years. Just go watch his fights with Sakuraba. He beat the living **** out of him every time they fought, is was just brutal. People also seem to forget he dominated and beat up Cro Cop the 1st time they fought. In the record books it counts as a draw since there was special rules for that match that in the event of no knockout it would be a draw. Every who saw knows who really won. In my opinion he hasnt been the same fighter since he got robbed of a decision against Mark Hunt(anyway you look at it Wandy won that match, worst decision ever in Pride). That stopped his 4year undefeated streak and since then he has looked average. He won a controversal decision to Yoshida(a match Yoshida actually won, damn Pride and their baaad decisions). He then ko'ed Nakamura while he was taking his shirt off, what Nakamura was thinking there i dont know. Wandy then lost to Arona badly. They then had a rematch at shockwave and until a late flurry at the end of the 3rd round he was going to lose a 2nd time to Arona. He escaped with a split decision. We all know about his last 2 matches against Cro Cop and Henderson. Despite being average lately, Wandy still is not overrated. Fans just have expected too much since he was brutally knocking out everyone he faced in Pride. Nobody is going to win every match(well except Fedor).


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## gwabblesore (May 2, 2007)

I like Wandy and all but shit, you guys take your morning showers in his nutsweat and tie your shoes with his ballhairs.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

osmium said:


> :laugh:


Great arguement :thumb02:


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## sirdilznik (Nov 21, 2006)

osmium said:


> You can't question anything about Wandy or Fedor on here without being flamed. People keep pointing to shit that stopped 3 years ago what has he done since then. Quinton is the last top level guy he beat and that was in 2004.


I disagree. He beat Ricardo Arona, who is a top level guy. Granted many people will dispute that fight since it was really close, bottom line is that he got the W. And speaking of disputed decisions, Wandy clearly beat Mark Hunt especially because of Pride's weight rule. More impressive than that was his win over Ironhead. Granted Fujita is not a top level fighter, but he is a true heavyweight and a super tough guy. The fact that "The Axe Murderer beat him down so bad and TKOd him when *no one else* could is damn freakin' impressive in my book.

Beyond Wanderlei's damn impressive career resume is the fact that the man is the truest definition of a warrior. He has met every challenge head on and has never made excuses for his losses.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> Great arguement :thumb02:


I am just not going to argue with someone who is in such a deep state of denial. There is no point to it.


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## gwabblesore (May 2, 2007)

daveyboy said:


> I wouldnt call Wandy overrated. He was the most dominant striker in all of mma for years. Just go watch his fights with Sakuraba. He beat the living **** out of him every time they fought, is was just brutal. People also seem to forget he dominated and beat up Cro Cop the 1st time they fought. In the record books it counts as a draw since there was special rules for that match that in the event of no knockout it would be a draw. Every who saw knows who really won. In my opinion *he hasnt been the same fighter since he got robbed of a decision against Mark Hunt(anyway you look at it Wandy won that match, worst decision ever in Pride*). That stopped his 4year undefeated streak and since then he has looked average. He won a controversal decision to Yoshida(a match Yoshida actually won, damn Pride and their baaad decisions). He then ko'ed Nakamura while he was taking his shirt off, what Nakamura was thinking there i dont know. Wandy then lost to Arona badly. They then had a rematch at shockwave and until a late flurry at the end of the 3rd round he was going to lose a 2nd time to Arona. He escaped with a split decision. We all know about his last 2 matches against Cro Cop and Henderson. Despite being average lately, Wandy still is not overrated. Fans just have expected too much since he was brutally knocking out everyone he faced in Pride. Nobody is going to win every match(well except Fedor).


Atomic butt drop is an automatic 10-8 round.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

osmium said:


> I am just not going to argue with someone who is in such a deep state of denial. There is no point to it.


That, and the fact you have no proof whatsoever, except the size of wanderlei lol.

And yeah, despite the atomic Butt rop, wanderlei took Hunt down so many times and really won the standup.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

sirdilznik said:


> I disagree. He beat Ricardo Arona, who is a top level guy. Granted many people will dispute that fight since it was really close, bottom line is that he got the W. And speaking of disputed decisions, Wandy clearly beat Mark Hunt especially because of Pride's weight rule. More impressive than that was his win over Ironhead. Granted Fujita is not a top level fighter, but he is a true heavyweight and a super tough guy. The fact that "The Axe Murderer beat him down so bad and TKOd him when *no one else* could is damn freakin' impressive in my book.
> 
> Beyond Wanderlei's damn impressive career resume is the fact that the man is the truest definition of a warrior. He has met every challenge head on and has never made excuses for his losses.


He doesn't but everyone who is a fan of his does. I have no problem with Wandy watching him crush cans is one of the most entertaining things in MMA. I have a problem with people who can't get a firm grip on reality. No one is questioning his knockout power here I am questioning the absurd nut hugging and denial that goes on with his fans and whether or not he is still a top level fighter. I don't consider Arona one of the elite either.


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> I don't know dude, you have the internet, so maybe you should, i don't know.....GO ******* EDUCATE YOURSELF!?


raise01: raise01: raise01: raise01: raise01: raise01:


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

osmium said:


> He doesn't but everyone who is a fan of his does. I have no problem with Wandy watching him crush cans is one of the most entertaining things in MMA. I have a problem with people who can't get a firm grip on reality. No one is questioning his knockout power here I am questioning the absurd nut hugging and denial that goes on with his fans and whether or not he is still a top level fighter. I don't consider Arona one of the elite either.


Yeah dude, two losses in a row, and the guys he lost to. Also he fought so many cans the last few years...ridiculous he could be considered top level. I mean he hasn't had a belt in like half a year. Obviously he isn't top level anymore.


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## royalking87 (Apr 22, 2007)

arona used to be top 10 so u can hush that shit quick


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Well I want to see him fight one more time before like you Osimum I dismiss him from the top fighters. He lost to Cro Cop and Henderson when he spent time in the hosipital with strep throat. Before that He beat Fujita and he also beat Arona which whether you think he is a top flight fighter or not was considered by many to be the 2nd best LHW at the time beside Shogun. Man I'm not trying to be a dick but you seem to judge fighters on their latest results a little quick. Yes Wanderlei and Arona have struggled lately but both are under 31 they have a lot of time left in their careers.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

rezin said:


> First he clearly did lose the bout to Tito Ive seen the match and I really dont see how anyone can claim he won that match and did he get annihilated by Vitor. I am assuming your point was that he was at the beginning of his career and I buy that.


Yeah, he lost against Tito... but by some serious boring Lay&Pray at Titos hands. If you run away in a bout its an automatic point deduction now... but not then. Tito won on points... yay for him.

I have no idea where you get annihilated from  
Did Page 'annihilate' chuck? He got caught, thats it.
Sheesh. I would say that Hendo 'annihilated' Wandy in their match because it lasted longer than one single punch.



rezin said:


> He did look amazing against Rampage but the whole point I was bringing up regarding the signing was how the hoopla around this guy was on par with the hoopla around Fedor right now. Dan Henderson didnt receive all this attention before he signed.


Because Wandy just doesnt go for the win... he FINISHES fights... not just hoping for wins by points... 
Which makes him take RISKS that most fighters dont do.

I hate fights that end up like Arlovski/Werdum or Sanchez/Koscheck or even Franca/Sherk... ugh!



rezin said:


> Plus back to back losses can def damage someones confidence so my whole point was whether he was at the end of his peak and the best of wanderlei has come and gone?


That is still unknown. 
But I dont consider this a reason to call him 'underrated'.
He is rated very highly not only because of his wins, but in his Performance regardless if he wins or loses.

The man will RISK getting himself KTFO because he knows fans appreciate him for it... not just holding onto the guy waiting for the match to end OR backing up and letting it go to a decision.

He might not win on points, but he wins the respect of the crowd for not wanting to merely survive.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

> I like to consider myself fairly knwoledgeable about MMA fighting but I have not had much opportunity to watch many pride fights so therefore I base most of my judgement of a fighter on results of fights and style of fighting used by fighters.


I think it's sort of odd that you are basing this off of NOT watching Wandy's fights in Pride. 




> For the last several years I hear all this commotion about the greatest match ever would be Wanderlei v. Chuck and it seemed like Dana was creaming his pants to sign this guy.


It was, but Pride matched him up with a guy who has really good stand-up, and good takedown defense. So, of course, Wandy got his head kicked off, and that made the Chuck vs Wandy fight lose it's luster.




> Im just curious why this guy is considered so good. He has lost his last 2 fights.


Good fighters lose fights. It happens. Wandy beat Mezger (Though a cheap headbutt was used, which taints that victory), Sakuraba 3 times, beat Rampage twice, beat Yuki Kondo, beat Fujita (A HW, and he finished him), Nak, Tamura, and Yoshida twice. He's a good fighter.



> I saw the match of him and Vitor belfort 9 years ago and he got demolished. Tito beat him fair and square. I know he is very exciting but in all honesty is he that good?


The Belfort fight was early into his career. Tito beat him, but good fighters, as I said, lose sometimes. Not everyone is Fedor.



> If anyone would care to comment on whether you think he is still has a lot left in him after his last two losses I would love to hear about that too.


I like Wanderlei, I really do, but I don't think he'll ever get back to his old self. He has just been taking some punishment lately, and his past UFC run was, well, not very good.


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## Brydon (Jan 13, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> That, and the fact you have no proof whatsoever, except the size of wanderlei lol.
> 
> And yeah, despite the atomic Butt rop, wanderlei took Hunt down so many times and really won the standup.


If you think Wandy won the stand up against hunt you must be blind and stupid. Hunt came off better in nearly every exchange and knocked wandy down about 3 times, there is no question that hunt dominated the stand up. Wandy probably won overall on the ground but hunt reversed him several times and was impressive himself. I think hunt won that match. When people are a massive fan of someone they seem to have beer goggles on and not see whats being done to their fighter and over exaggerate everything they do. Clearly a very biased opinion. As for Silva being over rated i dont think he is at all. His stand up may be slightly over rated but I also think his wrestling and ground game are under rated so that balances out. Silva is a legend and i think we'll see him on top form when he enters the UFC.


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## Uchaaa (Apr 22, 2007)

Just look at his long lists of victims and be aware how he murdered them. He has 14 (t)kos in pride. He can stand the most punches and he can hit the hardest. No, I dont think he is overrated.


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## jehu pitchfork (Feb 4, 2007)

most certainly NOT overrated. his lengthy reign, & the competition he was facing, & STILL does is, to be HIGHLY respected & in awe of. he's far from overrated.


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## awf (Jan 2, 2007)

Well Rezin, You are obviously not very knwoledgeable about MMA...What a stupid thread..Do some research before making such a thread.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Brydon said:


> I think hunt won that match.


And you call me blind and stupid lol? Nobody could possibly think Hunt won that if they actually watched it. Did you see the look on Hunts face when he won? The look on Wanderleis? And if you read some of my posts, you will see that Hunt is one of my favourite fighters.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Well I want to see him fight one more time before like you Osimum I dismiss him from the top fighters. He lost to Cro Cop and Henderson when he spent time in the hosipital with strep throat. Before that He beat Fujita and he also beat Arona which whether you think he is a top flight fighter or not was considered by many to be the 2nd best LHW at the time beside Shogun. Man I'm not trying to be a dick but you seem to judge fighters on their latest results a little quick. Yes Wanderlei and Arona have struggled lately but both are under 31 they have a lot of time left in their careers.


Well I am judging what he has done over a 3 year period not his last two fights alone. He hasn't been the same fighter for a long time now. How about people just cool down on the hype for the guy until he starts beating top level fighters again or atleast dominating the mid range guys. Not getting obliterated by elite fighters or being outfought in decisions with second level guys.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

osmium said:


> Well I am judging what he has done over a 3 year period not his last two fights alone. He hasn't been the same fighter for a long time now. How about people just cool down on the hype for the guy until he starts beating top level fighters again or atleast dominating the mid range guys. Not getting obliterated by elite fighters or being outfought in decisions with second level guys.


3 year period.
Obliterated Yuki Kondo
Obliterated Rampage
Beat Ricardo Arona, a highly ranked fighter
Obliterated Fujita, a much larger man known for his ability to take punishment.

Hmmmmm


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Hopefully this extended break has done Silva good. Back to back highlight reel knockouts is not a good sign for any fighter, especially a 205er that's traded openly with Mark Hunt.


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

osmium said:


> Well I am judging what he has done over a 3 year period not his last two fights alone. He hasn't been the same fighter for a long time now. How about people just cool down on the hype for the guy until he starts beating top level fighters again or atleast dominating the mid range guys. *Not getting obliterated by elite fighters *or being *outfought in decisions with second level guys*



Loss Dan Henderson KO (Punches) PRIDE 33 - Second Coming 2/24/2007 3 2:08 
 Loss Mirko Filipovic KO (Head Kick) PRIDE - Final Conflict Absolute 9/10/2006 1 5:26 
 Win Kazuyuki Fujita TKO (Strikes) PRIDE - Critical Coutdown Absolute 7/1/2006 1 9:21 
 Win Ricardo Arona Decision (Split) PRIDE - Shockwave 2005 12/31/2005 3 5:00 
 Loss Ricardo Arona Decision (Unaminous) PRIDE - Final Conflict 2005 8/28/2005 2 5:00 
 Win Kazuhiro Nakamura TKO (Strikes) PRIDE - Critical Countdown 2005 6/26/2005 1 5:24 
 Win Hidehiko Yoshida Decision (Split) PRIDE - Total Elimination 2005 4/23/2005 3 5:00 
 Loss Mark Hunt Decision (Split) PRIDE - Shockwave 2004 12/31/2004 3 5:00 
 Win Quinton Jackson KO PRIDE 28 - High Octane 10/31/2004 2 3:26 
 Win Yuki Kondo KO PRIDE - Final Conflict 2004 8/15/2004 1 2:46
Those are his last fights, pretty much covers the last three years almost to the day. Now I am wondering who is top level and mid range from that list?


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## sirdilznik (Nov 21, 2006)

IcemanCometh said:


> Loss Dan Henderson KO (Punches) PRIDE 33 - Second Coming 2/24/2007 3 2:08
> Loss Mirko Filipovic KO (Head Kick) PRIDE - Final Conflict Absolute 9/10/2006 1 5:26
> Win Kazuyuki Fujita TKO (Strikes) PRIDE - Critical Coutdown Absolute 7/1/2006 1 9:21
> Win Ricardo Arona Decision (Split) PRIDE - Shockwave 2005 12/31/2005 3 5:00
> ...


Top level:
Dan Henderson
Mirko Filipovic
Ricardo Arona
Quinton Jackson

Mid level:
Everyone else


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> And you call me blind and stupid lol? Nobody could possibly think Hunt won that if they actually watched it. Did you see the look on Hunts face when he won? The look on Wanderleis? And if you read some of my posts, you will see that Hunt is one of my favourite fighters.


Another thing I forgot to mention is that the judges are supposed to take into account a weigh disadvantage. What did hunt have? 50 pounds? More?


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

IcemanCometh said:


> Loss Dan Henderson KO (Punches) PRIDE 33 - Second Coming 2/24/2007 3 2:08
> Loss Mirko Filipovic KO (Head Kick) PRIDE - Final Conflict Absolute 9/10/2006 1 5:26
> Win Kazuyuki Fujita TKO (Strikes) PRIDE - Critical Coutdown Absolute 7/1/2006 1 9:21
> Win Ricardo Arona Decision (Split) PRIDE - Shockwave 2005 12/31/2005 3 5:00
> ...


Kondo wouldn't be the past 3 years but let him stay anyways he was second level at that point. Rampage was an impressive knockout of a top level fighter good for Wandy. The Hunt decision is questionable certainly but I felt it could have gone either way it is hard to judge Hunt at that point he became a much more complete fighter later in his career. Yoshida clearly beat him and he is second level. Arona is second level to me and he outfought Wandy in the first fight and most of the second. Fujita is really not even a second level HW though TKOing him is certainly impressive. Mirko is an elite heavyweight though a smaller one and he destroyed Wandy. Henderson is an elite fighter at 185 I wouldn't say he is one at 205 and he knocked Wandy out.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

sirdilznik said:


> Top level:
> Dan Henderson
> Mirko Filipovic
> Ricardo Arona
> ...


On what strange planet isn't Mark Hunt Top Level?:confused03:


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

osmium said:


> Kondo wouldn't be the past 3 years but let him stay anyways he was second level at that point. Rampage was an impressive knockout of a top level fighter good for Wandy. The Hunt decision is questionable certainly but I felt it could have gone either way it is hard to judge Hunt at that point he became a much more complete fighter later in his career. Yoshida clearly beat him and he is second level. Arona is second level to me and he outfought Wandy in the first fight and most of the second. Fujita is really not even a second level HW though TKOing him is certainly impressive. Mirko is an elite heavyweight though a smaller one and he destroyed Wandy. Henderson is an elite fighter at 185 I wouldn't say he is one at 205 and he knocked Wandy out.


This looks slightly different to what you were saying earlier lol.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> Another thing I forgot to mention is that the judges are supposed to take into account a weigh disadvantage. What did hunt have? 50 pounds? More?


I am pretty sure that is only in the event that the fight is a draw then the smaller fighter gets the win. I don't think it was explained clearly enough but that is what I got from it.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Also, how do you justify your thoughts on Arona? Who had he lost to? Shogun, Fedor and Rampage. Other than that he had one every fight he was in when he faced Wand, beating the likes of Jeremy Horn, Mezger and Ninja Rua.


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## Robopencil (Feb 7, 2007)

I don't think losing to a fighter like Dan Henderson is something to be embarrassed by. Whether or not Wanderlei is the same fighter who held a belt and dominated all the competition for 5(almost 6) years, only to be defeated by a Heavyweight Mirko CroCop who was ranked second in all of the world, we have yet too see.


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## sirdilznik (Nov 21, 2006)

Okay before things start to get nasty here (people have been very civil so far :thumbsup: ) I'm going to step in and try to play peacekeeper. I think on one side of the issue people are saying "Don't live on Wandy's past accomplishments. Let's see him fight again before we know if he can be back to the "old" Wandy." On the other side people are saying "Don't let a couple of losses to elite level competition completely destroy a man's stature. Let's see him fight again before we pronounce Wandy finished". 

So how about we all agree to see him fight again before we pronounce final judgment on him either way :thumbsup:


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> Also, how do you justify your thoughts on Arona? Who had he lost to? Shogun, Fedor and Rampage. Other than that he had one every fight he was in when he faced Wand, beating the likes of Jeremy Horn, Mezger and Ninja Rua.


Go back to Wiki and check the dates of those wins and those losses. He basically got a shot because he beat a completely over the hill Sakuraba and Dean Lister. The two top level fighters he went up against in that time period aside from Wandy knocked him out.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

sirdilznik said:


> Okay before things start to get nasty here (people have been very civil so far :thumbsup: ) I'm going to step in and try to play peacekeeper. I think on one side of the issue people are saying "Don't live on Wandy's past accomplishments. Let's see him fight again before we know if he can be back to the "old" Wandy." On the other side people are saying "Don't let a couple of losses to elite level competition completely destroy a man's stature. Let's see him fight again before we pronounce Wandy finished".
> 
> So how about we all agree to see him fight again before we pronounce final judgment on him either way :thumbsup:


Nah, osmium is a retard. Making claims like Wand was on steroids with no proof. He clearly doesn't like him, and is now just trying to justify it.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

osmium said:


> Go back to Wiki and check the dates of those wins and those losses. He basically got a title shot because he beat a completely over the hill Sakuraba and Dean Lister. The two top level fighters he went up against in that time period aside from Wandy knocked him out.


The date is irrelevant. You are saying someone is second level because they lost to Shogun? After winning 4 fights in a row, one against Wanderlei Silva? Are you insane?


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> The date is irrelevant. You are saying someone is second level because they lost to Shogun? After winning 4 fights in a row, one against Wanderlei Silva? Are you insane?


He is second level because in that time period he lost 3 out of 4 matches to top level fighters and Wandy was in his downturn at that point. He rarely finishes anyone who isn't a can also.


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## HEBPEME (Aug 31, 2007)

*...*

As much as i hate that pirahna looking moron Silva, it would be crazy to say that he is overrated. I agree with people here saying that STATS aren't everything! Very often a good fighter loses a match cuz of a lucky shot, bad day or simply because of some idiot judge who scored the fight according to his liking / disliking of some fighter (ie diego f*****g disgusting sanchez vs john alessio, and by the way there is no more overrated fighter than that little twat sanchez), etc... 
Therefore, Wanderlei deserves all the respect that he has and more. His striking is maybe the best in his weight class, aggressivness unmatched, heart incredible and he can withstand solid amount of punishment. That makes him a world class fighter. 
Now, it is a fact that he was not that impressive lately, but that doesn't mean anything. He can rise again with no problem and he probably will. I only hope that Chuck will put him to sleep cuz he's one of my favorite fighters, although it seems to me that that fight isn't that certain at all.
All in all, whether we like him or not, he always puts up a great fight and a great show. Not a single boring fight in his carreer that i watched.
Wanna talk overrated ? Try Diego Sanchez for example...


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

osmium said:


> He is second level because in that time period he lost 3 out of 4 matches to top level fighters and Wandy was in his downturn at that point. He rarely finishes anyone who isn't a can also.


You are counting Sokoudjou there?


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

> He basically got a shot because he beat a completely over the hill Sakuraba and Dean Lister. The two top level fighters he went up against in that time period aside from Wandy knocked him out.


I don't really know why you're trying to justify Arona not getting a shot. Dude got smoked by Shogun, sure, but he still beat Wanderlei in the GP. That, in itself, should earn him a shot against the guy.


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## wallysworld191 (Mar 28, 2007)

rezin said:


> I like to consider myself fairly knwoledgeable about MMA fighting but I have not had much opportunity to watch many pride fights





pretty much destroyed your credit in one sentence...and it was the first one.

and thats not counting the title...cuz really how could he be overrated, no ones calling him the best...hes just really really good, and had a really really good career


wandy has probably about the most decorated fighting career of anyone...

whats this about him not finishing anyone other than a can? hes the only person to ever knock out iron jawed quinton rampage jackson.

so he has had a few losses...look at who its to though, some of the toughest guys in the world

mark hunt (like 80 pounds bigger than him)
ricardo arona (beat him in his very next fight)
mirko (lol...cant be upset about that)
dan henderson (again...cant be to mad about that, and it was right after the mirko fight)
tito (early in his career, plus that was a weird fight)
vitor (um...vitor could smash anyone on the right day)


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> You are counting Sokoudjou there?


Rampage, Wandy, and Shogun. I still considered Wandy one of the elite going into the first fight with Arona even though he should have lost to Yoshida. Henderson beating him was just the final straw until he starts winning again you can't be that unimpressive for the majority of your fights for a long time then get knocked out by a 185er at 205 and still be considered a top guy in my book.


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## sirdilznik (Nov 21, 2006)

TheNegation said:


> You are counting Sokoudjou there?


Sokoudjou is a hard one to put in a category right now. Mind you I'm really trying to be objective here (look at my sig). I'm one of those people that doesn't subscribe to the "lucky punch" theory. To quote Bas Rutten: "You throw a punch and it hits it's target. Where is the luck in that?" Some people were calling his win over Lil Nog lucky and some even persist after his win over Arona. No one can deny that he completely obliterated both those guys. The scary part is that I haven't seen his Judo used yet and that's supposed to be his strength. That being said you can't call "Hands of Granite" Sokoudjou a top fighter yet. I need to see a lot more of him and I need to see someone put him in a bad spot and how he survives (or not).


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## sirdilznik (Nov 21, 2006)

osmium said:


> Rampage, Wandy, and Shogun. I still considered Wandy one of the elite going into the first fight with Arona even though he should have lost to Yoshida. Henderson beating him was just the final straw until he starts winning again you can't be that unimpressive for the majority of your fights for a long time then get knocked out by a 185er at 205 and still be considered a top guy in my book.


Even if it's (arguably) the best 185er on the planet?


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

osmium said:


> Rampage, Wandy, and Shogun. I still considered Wandy one of the elite going into the first fight with Arona even though he should have lost to Yoshida. Henderson beating him was just the final straw until he starts winning again you can't be that unimpressive for the majority of your fights for a long time then get knocked out by a 185er at 205 and still be considered a top guy in my book.


Ok, but I think you are wrong on that and I would say a lot of other people here do too. Losing to Henderson is no shame to anyone. Wnad has not had such a bad career over the last few years to take him out of the elite at LHW.

Also if you go around making unfounded and retarted allegations about people you cannot prove, expect to look stupid.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

sirdilznik said:


> Sokoudjou is a hard one to put in a category right now. Mind you I'm really trying to be objective here (look at my sig). I'm one of those people that doesn't subscribe to the "lucky punch" theory. To quote Bas Rutten: "You throw a punch and it hits it's target. Where is the luck in that?" Some people were calling his win over Lil Nog lucky and some even persist after his win over Arona. No one can deny that he completely obliterated both those guys. The scary part is that I haven't seen his Judo used yet and that's supposed to be his strength. That being said you can't call "Hands of Granite" Sokoudjou a top fighter yet. I need to see a lot more of him and I need to see someone put him in a bad spot and how he survives (or not).


Agree 100%


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

sirdilznik said:


> Even if it's (arguably) the best 185er on the planet?


Yeah it was just a culmination I am not saying he should be ashamed of losing to him but I just can't keep him up there. Henderson is great but it isn't like he is a dominant striker standing especially at 205 and Wandy is supposed to be.


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

osmium said:


> Rampage, Wandy, and Shogun. I still considered Wandy one of the elite going into the first fight with Arona even though he should have lost to Yoshida. Henderson beating him was just the final straw until he starts winning again you can't be that unimpressive for the majority of your fights for a long time then get knocked out by a 185er at 205 and still be considered a top guy in my book.


I don't see how he was unimpressive...he stood toe to toe with Cro Cop till that damn cut over his eye after the break and doctor checking it he came back still gunning for the win and then BAM a HLK. I would think with Hendo he was the sameway. And the fight went three rounds not one or two but three rounds.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

IcemanCometh said:


> I don't see how he was unimpressive...he stood toe to toe with Cro Cop till that damn cut over his eye after the break and doctor checking it he came back still gunning for the win and then BAM a HLK. I would think with Hendo he was the sameway. And the fight went three rounds not one or two but three rounds.


Cro Cop was completely out striking him. Standing toe to toe with someone and getting worked doesn't mean you are having a good fight. He lost standing up with Dan that is the point.


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## sirdilznik (Nov 21, 2006)

I have to admit that it's hard for me to be objective with my love for The Axe Murderer and my hope that he can be the old Wandy. That being said i think he fought too soon after being KTFO by CroCop. The illness he had previous to the Henderson fight not withstanding, I think he fought too soon after the CroCop fight. That was a truly vicious KO and things like that tend to have lingering effects whether the fighter knows it or not. I guess my hope is that the long lay off has done him some good. We will all know fairly soon I guess.


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## sirdilznik (Nov 21, 2006)

I'd also like to give a big thumbs up (and I'll throw rep around too) to all those involved in this thread for keeping things relatively toned down. it's good to be able to see one of these heated threads with such widely differing opinions go for 7 + pages without (for the most part) degrading into petty namecalling. :thumbsup:


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

IcemanCometh said:


> I don't see how he was unimpressive...he stood toe to toe with Cro Cop till that damn cut over his eye after the break and doctor checking it he came back still gunning for the win and then BAM a HLK. I would think with Hendo he was the sameway. And the fight went three rounds not one or two but three rounds.


Sorry, IMC, but Mirko pretty much kicked his ass for the entire fight. He was smashing him on the ground, and knocked him on his ass. Wanderlei was overmatched, big time, but he didn't belong in the HW division, anyway. His style was perfect for Mirko.


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## sirdilznik (Nov 21, 2006)

Damone said:


> Sorry, IMC, but Mirko pretty much kicked his ass for the entire fight. He was smashing him on the ground, and knocked him on his ass. Wanderlei was overmatched, big time, but he didn't belong in the HW division, anyway. His style was perfect for Mirko.


I agree. There is no doubt that Mirko completely kicked Wandy's ass all over the ring, but if you were to custom design a fighter to beat Wanderlei Silva, it might as well be a smaller Mirko (to be fair with weight classes).


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

osmium said:


> Cro Cop was completely out striking him. Standing toe to toe with someone and getting worked doesn't mean you are having a good fight. He lost standing up with Dan that is the point.






Damone said:


> Sorry, IMC, but Mirko pretty much kicked his ass for the entire fight. He was smashing him on the ground, and knocked him on his ass. Wanderlei was overmatched, big time, but he didn't belong in the HW division, anyway. His style was perfect for Mirko.


So then to be impressive you have to be winning the fight all the time? Its not impressive to stand in there and slug it out with the #2 HW at the time? I need to see the Hendo fight I will admit but again and going back to the OP the reason people love Wandy so much is b/c he isn't afraid to stand in there with a guy unlike some fighters that circle around forever. With Wandy you know your going to see a WAR, that is impressive to me.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

I love Wandy too, but a counter striker with such power as Mirko that is a weight class ahead of him whopped his ass silly in their second encounter. Silva likes to press the action and move forward, Belfort and CroCop are two examples of when that can be dangerous.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

IcemanCometh said:


> So then to be impressive you have to be winning the fight all the time? Its not impressive to stand in there and slug it out with the #2 HW at the time?


Wandy has balls, no doubt, but the guy was clearly outmatched in that fight. He was a LHW trying to fight the big boys, and it just didn't work out. I don't even think Wandy had a gameplan, then again, does Wanderlei ever have a gameplan?


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Damone said:


> Wandy has balls, no doubt, but the guy was clearly outmatched in that fight. He was a LHW trying to fight the big boys, and it just didn't work out. I don't even think Wandy had a gameplan, then again, does Wanderlei ever have a gameplan?


His game plan is to beat the shit outta people, I think thats as far as it goes lol. 

As far as not doing well against the big boys, I was actually surprised he didn't get beaten senseless by Hunt and actually IMO beat him. I thought he did very well against Mirko the first time aswell, though I haven't seen that fight in ages.


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## royalking87 (Apr 22, 2007)

and he usually does but like damone said he was completly outclased by cro cop and was just beatn but wandy is a amazing fighter and i hope he does good in the ufc


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

First off to use Arona's loss to Rampage against him is retarted. He dominated Rampage and got KO'd by a headbutt. (This is from someone who can't stand Arona and his put me to sleep style) Now Wanderlei got completly trashed by Cro Cop but that isn't suprising he shouldn't have been fighting Cro Cop. He also shouldn't have been fighting Henderson since it is well documented that he spent a week in the hospital before the fight. Please can we just be patient and wait to kick Wanderlei out of the top LHW when he has lost to 2 205'ers in 6 years. And Ricardo Arona and Dan Henderson are both widely considered top 10 LHW's. If he gets the shit kicked out of him next fight then he probably isn't a top LHW anymore but for now this really shouldn't be a discussion I mean 2 losses at the weightclass in 6 years.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

alot of people jump ship after one loss. two just about sank the boat for wandy to noobs.

getting murdered by cro cop isn't that unusual, especially w/ his striking style

and losing to dan henderson while badly sick...

saying he's overrated is just nonsense.


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## Robopencil (Feb 7, 2007)

He looks like a Pirahna.. Where are you coming from with that statement? It's common knowledge that he looks like a monkey.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Silva and Mirko was very one-sided. I think Silva took 3 solid kicks to his stomach. This pic is pretty good:


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## Robopencil (Feb 7, 2007)

Ugh, I've seen that picture/video a lot and it still gets me.


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## HEBPEME (Aug 31, 2007)

*To me*

He looks like a pirahna...


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## Kameleon (Apr 20, 2006)

*Wanderlei Silva, overrated?

IMO, he is not overrated nor is he over the hill. His last fight was against Dan Henderson, in which he lost. I knew he was going to lose, even though I wanted him to win. That's how things go down when he is running a fever and won't back out of a fight. The fight before that, he put on too much weight to close the gap with Mirko but even at his own weight the fight would have ended the same. He lost to the OWGP winner who was in a higher weight class.

As for Silva fighting cans, take a look at Liddell. The UFC and Dana White fed him cans also, and not so much cans as guys you need more experience before fighting someone of Liddells calibur.

Silva vs Liddell would end with Silva being the winner. You think the Rampage vs Liddell 2 fight was fast, put Liddell against Silva to see someone with actual KO power from Pride.

I'm a fan of Silva but not a big one. He does look like a monkey and not a pirahna.

And stop flamming people who don't know alot about Silva, just because the internet is out there doesn't mean they have ways of looking at fight videos, they could have dial-up. Do you know how long a 3 minute fight takes to load on dial-up? I could learn a new language in that amount of time, well not really maybe just the curse words. :dunno: But still, stop flamming, you know I like handing out warnings.  *


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

I don't see how you can consider someone overrated when they lose to opponents as high calibre as cro cop.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

GMW said:


> I don't see how you can consider someone overrated when they lose to opponents as high calibre as cro cop.


He clearly just dislikes him. Osmium, not the thread starter that is.

And he doesn't need videos to find out about Silva, look up his record. He won 18 fights in a row! Maybe I was a bit harsh with him, but he did make a pretty bad post. Starting out with 'I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about MMA.'


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## royalking87 (Apr 22, 2007)

so we made our arguments about wandyu and they made there arguments about how he was overrated no flaming


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

wukkadb said:


> Silva and Mirko was very one-sided. I think Silva took 3 solid kicks to his stomach. This pic is pretty good:


I still don't think this fight was all that one sided, although I was only able to track down rounds 2 and 3 online. I don't remember Wand taking a bad beating.


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

Cro Cop vs. Wandy...I think we are all forgetting they fought twice in Pride. First at Pride 20-Armed and Ready it went to a 5 round draw. Then again at Pride-Final Conflict Absolute in the OWGP semi-final match ups. The big from above me is from I believe Pride 20; as the OWGP meeting didn't go past the first round. Sorry I felt the need to clear that up. The Final Conflict match Mirko killed Wandy but I think at Pride 20 Wandy held his own but I could be wrong.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

IcemanCometh said:


> Cro Cop vs. Wandy...I think we are all forgetting they fought twice in Pride. First at Pride 20-Armed and Ready it went to a 5 round draw. Then again at Pride-Final Conflict Absolute in the OWGP semi-final match ups. The big from above me is from I believe Pride 20; as the OWGP meeting didn't go past the first round. Sorry I felt the need to clear that up. The Final Conflict match Mirko killed Wandy but I think at Pride 20 Wandy held his own but I could be wrong.


I think he held his own too.

I mean, come on guys.....in one fight Wand had hair, in the other he was Bald.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Wandy vs Mirko 1 had Wandy holding his own.

Wandy vs Mirko 2 was, well, you know.

However, Mirko was basically a novice to MMA in the first fight. Still, Wanderlei held his own.

I watched High Octane the other day, and man, I forgot how great Rampage vs Silva 2 was. It's been a little while since I've seen it, so it was nice to see it age pretty well. Odd how much MMA changes in a span of about 3 years. Silva & Rampage are in the UFC now, Pride is taking the dirt nap, and Mark Hunt is MIA.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

Wandy, when he lost to Tito, reminds me of Cyborg. They have a similar standup style, and cyborg, like Wandy then, had a lackluster ground game.


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## fenderman80 (Sep 12, 2006)

Kameleon said:


> *Wanderlei Silva, overrated?
> 
> IMO, he is not overrated nor is he over the hill. His last fight was against Dan Henderson, in which he lost. I knew he was going to lose, even though I wanted him to win. That's how things go down when he is running a fever and won't back out of a fight. The fight before that, he put on too much weight to close the gap with Mirko but even at his own weight the fight would have ended the same. He lost to the OWGP winner who was in a higher weight class.
> 
> ...



I totally agree. If you look at who liddell defended his title against (Couture x2, Horn, Babalu, Tito...I think there's someone elsee but I cant think of them) you will notice that none of them are accomplished strikers. The best of them is Randy who has actually improved dramatically since returning as a HW. Jackson smoked Liddell b/c he was bigger, stronger, had a great chin, could strike, and was not afraid to enagage Liddell. Having said that, Wandy handled him twice (not so much the 2nd time cause he caught him with a hook). That counter R hook that Rampage through that dropped Liddell, thats Wandys bread and butter right there. Liddell would definitely land some shots but I see Wandy taking it to him.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I don't.

Wanderlei is the perfect match-up for Liddell. Wandy swings wildly, and Chuck's a counterpuncher.


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## Mc19 (Jul 6, 2006)

osmium said:


> I am just not going to argue with someone who is in such a deep state of denial. There is no point to it.



Osmium, man i dont agree with any of the points you make on any thread


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## cabby (Sep 15, 2006)

2 guys who throw wide looping hooks in the pursuit of a wild KO hell yeah it would be a great fight


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

Chuck v. Wandy = Someone's going to sleep. Both are getting long in the tooth according to MMA standards(Randy being the exception) and it would be interesting to see who does better in the next year.


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## Mc19 (Jul 6, 2006)

Kameleon said:


> *Wanderlei Silva, overrated?
> 
> IMO, he is not overrated nor is he over the hill. His last fight was against Dan Henderson, in which he lost. I knew he was going to lose, even though I wanted him to win. That's how things go down when he is running a fever and won't back out of a fight. The fight before that, he put on too much weight to close the gap with Mirko but even at his own weight the fight would have ended the same. He lost to the OWGP winner who was in a higher weight class.
> 
> ...


 Good post!! repped.


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## daveyboy (Mar 4, 2007)

Damone said:


> I don't.
> 
> Wanderlei is the perfect match-up for Liddell. Wandy swings wildly, and Chuck's a counterpuncher.


Im a Wandy fan and i think he'll be a big star in the UFC because the fans are going to love the way he fights. But Chuck is just a bad matchup for Wandy. Wandy needs to be patient and pick his spots striking, really what he needs to do is fight Chuck the same way he fought Mark Hunt. Pick his spots and get him to the ground. My guess is that he wont have any respect for Chuck and will indead come out swinging. That's not the way to beat Chuck. Even Rampage knew better, he baited him into coming forward and knocked him out. Chuck wont fall for that again and when the fans start booing, Wandy will pick up the pace like an madman and get caught with a big right. Im not saying that Wandy cant win but i would say its 60/40 in favor of Chuck. Either way, this match will not last more than 1 round.


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## ufcrules (Jan 11, 2007)

I personally think the author of this thread is right. Wandy is overrated. That said, he sure brings it when he fights. I imagine we're going to get some pretty damn good fights out of him. But I still think he's overrated.


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## keylocke (Jun 18, 2007)

I can't comprehend how anyone would think Wandy was overated or an average fighter. I actually couldn't post yesterday without flaming the thread starter so I didn't bother.


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## GMW (Nov 15, 2006)

ufcrules said:


> I personally think the author of this thread is right. Wandy is overrated. That said, he sure brings it when he fights. I imagine we're going to get some pretty damn good fights out of him. But I still think he's overrated.


Why do you think he is overrated though?


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

daveyboy said:


> Im a Wandy fan and i think he'll be a big star in the UFC because the fans are going to love the way he fights. But Chuck is just a bad matchup for Wandy. Wandy needs to be patient and pick his spots striking, really what he needs to do is fight Chuck the same way he fought Mark Hunt. Pick his spots and get him to the ground. My guess is that he wont have any respect for Chuck and will indead come out swinging. That's not the way to beat Chuck. Even Rampage knew better, he baited him into coming forward and knocked him out. Chuck wont fall for that again and when the fans start booing, Wandy will pick up the pace like an madman and get caught with a big right. Im not saying that Wandy cant win but i would say its 60/40 in favor of Chuck. Either way, this match will not last more than 1 round.


Yeah, pretty much. Good post.


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## ufcrules (Jan 11, 2007)

GMW said:


> Why do you think he is overrated though?


 I just think that CC and Hendo proved that his jaw is suspect. Hendo wasn't even a ligit heavyweight when he put Wandy out.


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## DropKick (Apr 19, 2007)

Silva is definatley not overated. Getting beat by CroCop and Henderson after 5 years of domination doesn't make you overated. He is still in my opinion in the top 3 or 4 LHW's in the world and he seems to be happy about fighting for the UFC. I agree with whoever said that UFC fans that aren't that familiar with him are going to love the way he fights. Wandy is going to be on the warpath when he comes back and that doesn't bode well for a lot of people at 205. 

That being said, I think he's a better fighter than Chuck, but Chuck stylistically is not a good matchup for him. This is a fight that could go either way but I'd give the edge to Chuck.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

ufcrules said:


> I just think that CC and Hendo proved that his jaw is suspect. Hendo wasn't even a ligit heavyweight when he put Wandy out.


Both of those guys hit like a ton of bricks and defiantly have KO power especially Cro Cop. Wanderlei's chin has been tested many times in his career when you rush people like he does you get hit in the process and getting Ko'd twice in row doesn't mean he's overrated. Once again He has 2 losses in The LHW weight class in 6 years name another person who can say that because not many can and no one can say it with the wins he has.


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## IcemanCometh (Mar 9, 2007)

ufcrules said:


> I just think that CC and Hendo proved that his jaw is suspect. Hendo wasn't even a ligit heavyweight when he put Wandy out.


So how does that wash away fighting the likes of Mark Hunt, Fujita, Arona? Or even justify saying he is overrated? I just don't see your logic, so he has a suspect chin, he always has, let me explain. He gets flash ko'ed and comes back like half a second later. It happened a lot in the Mark Hunt fight, but he was with it again very fast and continued to fight like a mad dog. I love chuck but his run was nothing when compared to Wandy's.


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## ufcrules (Jan 11, 2007)

IcemanCometh said:


> So how does that wash away fighting the likes of Mark Hunt, Fujita, Arona? Or even justify saying he is overrated? I just don't see your logic, so he has a suspect chin, he always has, let me explain. He gets flash ko'ed and comes back like half a second later. It happened a lot in the Mark Hunt fight, but he was with it again very fast and continued to fight like a mad dog. I love chuck but his run was nothing when compared to Wandy's.


 I hear you. Don't get me wrong, I like Wandy, but I just think he may be getting to the point where he can't take a punch the way he used to. For a guy that generally leads with his face, that's not a good thing. I think he's custom made to Chuck's style. Chuck takes him out in 2 I think.


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## Organik (Aug 28, 2006)

wanderlei silva is one of the most exciting fighters to live. Period.


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## Organik (Aug 28, 2006)

ufcrules said:


> I just think that CC and Hendo proved that his jaw is suspect. Hendo wasn't even a ligit heavyweight when he put Wandy out.


there aint nothin about a jaw when u get kicked in the head by mirko ******* cro cop

any human bean on this earth would drop from that kick at full power.. other then mark hunt .. but please.. Aleksander, Igor have both been KO'd by mirko's kick but never have had suspect chins in other fights..

thats like putting your head infront of a car going 40mph and if you get KO'd your friends saying that you have a weak chin..


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## madroxcide (Apr 22, 2007)

Figured I would go ahead and chime in. I have been really following mma and watching for about the past year, i still consider myself a noob with it because there are a lot of fighters i'm still learning about or don't know about lots of fights i have not seen etc... 

Now I have not seen Silva fight before (i know that will shock some of you but don't judge me just yet lol) but here is what i do know about Silva.

Silva really brings it when he fights. I have not ever heard of anyone else that throws down like Silva win or lose doesn't matter he comes in to finish fights. I really can't think of anyone else with as much of a reputation for coming to a fight, bringing everything to the table, and not giving up.

Silva being a LWH fighting a lot of HW fighters. That says something about a fighter. To me if anyone can go up and fight other fighters who completely outweigh them and hold their own they have some skills.

Silva is an exciting fighter who is very entertaining to watch. Like i said i have not seen any of his fights yet but my god his reputation for exciting fights is crazy.

All that being said no Silva isn't overrated, if thats exactly what he is shown as which i'm sure he will and exactly what we get and once again i'm sure we will then how is that overrated? Now i see some argue about him being a top level fighter or not and well i would have to find out a lot more about Silva before i could ever judge a fighter like him. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents there.


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