# most overrated fighter?



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

for me it is defiantly Tyson Griffin, i think we all know why.


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## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

UFC_OWNS said:


> for me it is defiantly Tyson Griffin, i think we all know why.


I don't think he is overrated personally. Perhaps a bit overhyped, although there is no denying that he has potential to be a champ int he division one day.


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

Ronaldo Souza comes to mind immediately. He'll lose to any quality opponent. He gasses quick, has weak control on a ground, awful striking, no GnP, NOT an elite BJJ fighter against other higher level MMA fighters. All he has is explosive take downs till he gasses.

Lil Nog's lost a step or 3.. Depite his win* on Brillz, in that fight - he was outstruck (power wise atleast), weak BJJ attempts, lost in clinches, not aggressive attacking or countering.


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## Guymay (Jul 6, 2009)

Every fighter that just lost .


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## hatedcellphones (Dec 7, 2009)

Rashad Evans. Especially after his last fight. Too much LnP. If he doesn't want to strike with Rampage, there's no way he can stand with Shogun.


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

hatedcellphones said:


> Rashad Evans. Especially after his last fight. Too much LnP. If he doesn't want to strike with Rampage, there's no way he can stand with Shogun.


To be fair they did trade a little bit, and even after Rashad got rocked he did recover. Rashad was more explosive and got the takedowns. Although he lacks ground control of GSP - he knows that winning rounds by an explosive takedown can win you the rounds. I honestly hate the way Rashad and GSP win their fights - don't like either of them as champion/#1 contender.

I hope Koscheck and Rua make GSP and Rashad stand-up and trade.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Micheal Bisping, and by a mile. People were talking him up to be the man to beat anderson silva. It was amazing how many people were on his nuts. All i could say was that he was mediocre and few people listened.


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

xeberus said:


> Micheal Bisping, and by a mile. People were talking him up to be the man to beat anderson silva. It was amazing how many people were on his nuts. All i could say was that he was mediocre and few people listened.


Key word is _were _talking him up to beat Anderson Silva. I don't think anyone is that delusional.

He's a decent fighter like top 10-20 somewhere in MW, just ridiculously overpaid. He's just England's figurehead for MMA, so he gets paid a lot by the UFC and get's the hype to go along with it. Too valuable to be a gatekeeper, not good enough to be a contender. Meaning he'll fight other names like Akiyama or aging fighters that used to be better.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Akiyama. I have no idea how this guy ever got ranked as a top 10 MW without beating a single top 20 that was a complete MMA fighter. IMO he's pretty much 0-2 in the UFC against gatekeepers at best, but he was hyped as the next big thing for Asian MMA... I say let Okami keep that mantle.

And of course my perennial favorite Forrest Griffin ... IMO luckiest champ in UFC history, who beat some cans, an injured/roid withdrawn/gassed Shogun, took a controversial split decision over Rampage, and has soundly gotten tooled by every other top 10 he's ever faced. 

He has no punching power, no speed, no takedowns, no chin ... just a bunch of fans and an infinite Golden Boy status from being the first ever Reality TV star in the UFC. He does have some heart, somewhat exciting style and decent subs, but IMO that just makes him a mid-tier LHW and not the top 5 LHW ranking he is consistently granted. Does anyone really see him beating the LHWs ranked under him like Jones, Bader, Lil Nog, Thiago, Franklin etc.?


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

Currently I'd say Randy, Big Nog, Sanchez, Shields, Okami. It's hard to say really. It's based on how you perceive other people perceptions of fighters. I'm not saying the above are bad, just not as good as some people make them out to be.


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## m0nkey (Jun 13, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> And of course my perennial favorite Forrest Griffin ... IMO luckiest champ in UFC history, who beat some cans, an injured/roid withdrawn/gassed Shogun, took a controversial split decision over Rampage, and has soundly gotten tooled by every other top 10 he's ever faced.
> 
> He has no punching power, no speed, no takedowns, no chin ... just a bunch of fans and an infinite Golden Boy status from being the first ever Reality TV star in the UFC. He does have some heart, somewhat exciting style and decent subs, but IMO that just makes him a mid-tier LHW and not the top 5 LHW ranking he is consistently granted. Does anyone really see him beating the LHWs ranked under him like Jones, Bader, Lil Nog, Thiago, Franklin etc.?


I was going to avoid posting because im sure there are many fans of Forrest who would hate on me for it, but now youve wrote it im more confident to say Forrest Griffin !!


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

hmm i dont see how forrest is overrated, he actually has never really been overrated IMO, griffin has always been overhyped/overrated also lil nog and paul daley are overrated IMO


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

UFC_OWNS said:


> hmm i dont see how forrest is overrated, he actually has never really been overrated IMO, griffin has always been overhyped/overrated also lil nog and paul daley are overrated IMO


Well I just explained how I felt he was ... he's currently ranked the #5 LHW on Sherdog and most other MMA sites put him close to that. 

But I don't see him beating any of the other guys in the top 10 really ... I guess my question is do you see him getting past Jones, Bader, Lil Nog, Franklin, Thiago or Mousasi? What facet of the game is he better at than any of these guys?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Nate Marquardt, Demian Maia, Diego Sanchez,


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Bisping 
Diego Sanchez (a while ago)


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

diablo5597 said:


> Currently I'd say Randy, Big Nog, Sanchez, *Shields,* Okami. It's hard to say really. It's based on how you perceive other people perceptions of fighters. I'm not saying the above are bad, just not as good as some people make them out to be.


Shields? Really?! In Striekforce alone the guy has beaten Mayhem, Robbie Lawler and Dan Henderson fighting in a weight class that doesn't suit his natural weight. Mayhem and Lawler are top 20 MWs and Henderson was probably UFC's no. 2 or 3 MW when he left - and shields dominated him!
All this after going 4 years undefeated with absolutely dominant wins over Condit, Okami, Daley and Pyle.
Sorry but imo Shields is a genuine world class MMA fighter.

Back to topic, i'd say Nick Diaz. The guy is a good fighter but i think he would get wrecked by at least 5 or 6 UFC WWs.


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

xeberus said:


> Micheal Bisping, and by a mile. People were talking him up to be the man to beat anderson silva. It was amazing how many people were on his nuts. All i could say was that he was mediocre and few people listened.


nah, i never heard anyone once say he could beat Anderson Silva, not even himself. At the most People were making him out to be a possible challenger for Silva, which was totally fair since he was only 1 fight away from it. 

Ever Since the Hamill fight everyone other than the brits were shitting on everything he did, so i dont think at all he has been overrated. Plus alot of people thought Leben and Kang were going to smash Bisping, so if anything he has been slightly underrated.


Most Japanese based fighters are overrated, like Aoki, Kawajiri, Alvarez and the two most overrated fighters of alltime by a mile JZ and Hansen.


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

Rampage is in my opinion the most overrated fighter of all time. He's got okay wrestling, and decent boxing. His best atribute is probably submission defence. He's pretty much huge because of a few difining moments in Pride, and a trash talking mouth that rivals Chael's, only without the intelect to pull it off.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

It definatly was/has been Bisping. The guy has ZERO top 10 wins in his career. And even his best wins aren't that good. Hamill was a terrible call. Dennis Kang is a lost fighter and was cut quickly from teh UFC. Same as Dan Miller. Seriously the guy has been fed average to below average fighters his whole career while losing each time he is thrown a good fighter. Can't believe he was in the top 10 for having no quality wins. People were calling for a title shot after beating Jason Day and Chris Leban back when he was a head case.:confused03: I think people have caught on to the fact that he is a top 15-20 MW, and doesn't have the tools to beat a contender.

Now a days I would say Rampage. He is still getting fights like Machida all because of his name. He had a crappy fight against Jardine, a guy who is in a funk and was cut from teh UFC. He was taken down easily vs. Rashad. He was beat by Forrest. I just don't think his head is in it. He isn't a top 5 LHW. And would struggle to beat guys like Franklin, Forrest again, Lil Nog, Bader and so on...He should be fighting guys like them rather than Machida.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> And of course my perennial favorite Forrest Griffin ... IMO luckiest champ in UFC history, who beat some cans, an injured/roid withdrawn/gassed Shogun, took a controversial split decision over Rampage, and has soundly gotten tooled by every other top 10 he's ever faced.
> 
> He has no punching power, no speed, no takedowns, no chin ... just a bunch of fans and an infinite Golden Boy status from being the first ever Reality TV star in the UFC. He does have some heart, somewhat exciting style and decent subs, but IMO that just makes him a mid-tier LHW and not the top 5 LHW ranking he is consistently granted. Does anyone really see him beating the LHWs ranked under him like Jones, Bader, Lil Nog, Thiago, Franklin etc.?


I still don't understand why he has so many fans...
I mean, looking at his last couple of fights, I even started questionning his heart (the only thing he had going for him...)



BrianRClover said:


> Rampage is in my opinion the most overrated fighter of all time. He's got okay wrestling, and decent boxing. His best atribute is probably submission defence. He's pretty much huge because of a few difining moments in Pride, and a trash talking mouth that rivals Chael's, only without the intelect to pull it off.


I agree. The guy sells PPVs tho, so people must be enjoying his trash talking 



jonnyg4508 said:


> It definatly was/has been Bisping. The guy has ZERO top 10 wins in his career. And even his best wins aren't that good. Hamill was a terrible call. Dennis Kang is a lost fighter and was cut quickly from teh UFC. Same as Dan Miller. Seriously the guy has been fed average to below average fighters his whole career while losing each time he is thrown a good fighter. Can't believe he was in the top 10 for having no quality wins. People were calling for a title shot after beating Jason Day and Chris Leban back when he was a head case.:confused03: I think people have caught on to the fact that he is a top 15-20 MW, and doesn't have the tools to beat a contender.


I was a big Bisping fan after TUF (the one he won as a contender).
I lost a lot of respect for the man when I saw him on TUF as a coach.
I think he got exposed as a fighter as an above average fighter at best since the Hendo fight.
His fighting skills were a little sketchy before that, but that was the turning point when people started to get off his nuts.
Now he is just a joke...


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Jon Jones


I just feel that he's a little dramatic with his movements in the cage, and it's going to get him KO'd or Submitted sooner than later. That's just how fighters careers go, you need to be humbled.

Even his GNP on Hammil was overrated, if you take out the illegal elbows. I see a ton of talent, but I see a ton of flash as well. 

I will not dare question the level of competition he has beaten, that's not me. I just feel like he is on everyone's mind right now, and whoever that guy is, is usually overrated. 

He's like Alistair Overeem to me. When he is a little older, he's going to be a 265 lb heavyweight monster who no one wants to fight. But, at 205, he's going to run into weight cutting issues as he gets older.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

The most over rated fighter in UFC history has to be Randy Couture, not only is he currently still over rated he always was over rated.

its easy to pick a fighter just coming off a loss as been over rated so I will name 2 fighters I think are over rated coming off wins and 2 coming off losses

Shane Carwin - His Cardio was a disgrace and he is one dimensional, the guy had like no guard what so ever on his back, no where near has the skills to be one of the best.

Joe Stevenson - Quite sad I really like Daddy as a fighter, could be just a temporary drop of form that he is currently facing, but I think its more than that, I can only see his career falling from now on.

Chael Sonnen - He would be the grand champion of over rated fighters if not for Randy Couture's total domination of that crown, the guy has no technical skill on the feet or ground, he is no GSP when it coes to the take down so why on earth many feel he has a chance against Silva is quite laughable.

George Sotiropoulos - I like George a lot, hard to see how others rate him, but I think to many people think they are looking at a future champion, which to me makes me think he is over rated, I would love to see him rise to a title shot, hard to say how close he is he could only be one fight away, 
but I think are at least 5 guys in the UFC LW division right now who would beat him, Penn and Edgar been 2 of then Kenny and Maynard been another 2, and I think personally its Melvin Guillards time to raise to face the big dogs in the division and I would have him over Sotiropoulos as well would be a good fight in fact assuming Guillard can take the win against Jeremy Stephens, cant wait for that fight.


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## georgie17891 (Dec 21, 2008)

Forrest Griffin. I dont see him beati any top 10 current LHW.


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## xbrokenshieldx (Mar 5, 2007)

diablo5597 said:


> Currently I'd say Randy, Big Nog, Sanchez, Shields, Okami. It's hard to say really. It's based on how you perceive other people perceptions of fighters. I'm not saying the above are bad, just not as good as some people make them out to be.


I agree with all of those except Okami. I think he is underrated as a fighter and the guy has only lost to the very best, yet he constantly competes on undercards.


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## hatedcellphones (Dec 7, 2009)

MrObjective said:


> To be fair they did trade a little bit, and even after Rashad got rocked he did recover. Rashad was more explosive and got the takedowns. Although he lacks ground control of GSP - he knows that winning rounds by an explosive takedown can win you the rounds. I honestly hate the way Rashad and GSP win their fights - don't like either of them as champion/#1 contender.
> 
> I hope Koscheck and Rua make GSP and Rashad stand-up and trade.


So do I. I don't know if Kos will keep it standing since he's a better wrestler than striker as evidenced in his last fight. He showed good control and kept his opponent down for the better part of three rounds. So with him and GSP we might just see another wrestling match. 

Shogun on the other hand will come to bang, and I hope he takes out Rashad by the second round. If not sooner.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Jon Jones comes to mind. Yes, he is still very young and has impressed everyone (including me) with his destructions of very solid competition, but there's one thing where he need to improve dramatically. And that's the mental game during a fight. I feel he's too flashy to not get what many would call 'exposed' sooner or later. He doesn't have to but he decides to be this flashy fighter with lots of openings. Yes, he is really talented and he can pull of crazy throws and looks untouchable while in the ring, but so did Machida, Fedor and all the others who at some point met opposition that was ready for what was coming. Machida got countered while moving in (and out), Fedor was caught in a submission while fighting to his opponents strengths. The same can and will happen to Jones. Maybe a spinning elbow will get countered or a throw will be reversed, but it's going to happen. Especially when facing the top guys like Machida (who has an odd clinch game himself) or Shogun (whose counters are deadly). I agree with everyone who says he can be big, but he's just not there yet.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Jon Jones comes to mind. Yes, he is still very young and has impressed everyone (including me) with his destructions of very solid competition, but there's one thing where he need to improve dramatically. And that's the mental game during a fight. I feel he's too flashy to not get what many would call 'exposed' sooner or later. He doesn't have to but he decides to be this flashy fighter with lots of openings. Yes, he is really talented and he can pull of crazy throws and looks untouchable while in the ring, but so did Machida, Fedor and all the others who at some point met opposition that was ready for what was coming. Machida got countered while moving in (and out), Fedor was caught in a submission while fighting to his opponents strengths. The same can and will happen to Jones. Maybe a spinning elbow will get countered or a throw will be reversed, but it's going to happen. Especially when facing the top guys like Machida (who has an odd clinch game himself) or Shogun (whose counters are deadly). I agree with everyone who says he can be big, but he's just not there yet.


The fact that he's human doesn't make him overrated, any more than it makes Fedor overrated. Everyone loses ... fact is Jones has shown himself to be on another level to everyone he's fought and I don't think the possibility of getting caught makes him overrated. 

By that definition, _every single fighter alive_ is "overrated".


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## Rastaman (Feb 25, 2010)

Forrest Griffin without a doubt.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Is Randy overrated now? Yea maybe. Maybe Dana and fans are holding onto the past.

But how in hell is he overrated overall? Sorry the guys record doesn't look as good as some. He didn't get the luxury of fighting 10 cans to start off his career like most of the top HWs. (Fedor, Carwin, Overeem) He is a guy that has spent almost half his fighting career at age 40 or over. He is a guy who competed with all HWs at 225 lbs. 

So you are saying a guy that has won titles multiple times that is fighting guys almost half his age and always being the smaller guy.. is overrated? Give me a ******* break. Throw Brock, Cain, Carwin, JDS, and Fedor in there when they are 42 and severely undersized and see what their record is.

And I'm not the biggest Captain America fan, but I respect the hell out of the dude. What he has done by beating young 250+ pounders when most guys would be 5 years retired is perhaps the most amazing thing in MMA's short history.


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## ajitator (Feb 5, 2007)

In order, starting with the most overrated.

*Roy Nelson*
beat a bunch of nobodies all of the sudden everyone thinks he can win the belt, lol

*Tito Ortiz*
i still don't know why this guy still makes money, all the fans he has are the people that hate him and want to see him lose again

*Rampage Jackson*
only notable win from this guy in the last 4 years is against chuck and henderson. he's lost to anyone else that's still relevant, and he will lose again to machida.

*Fedor Emilianenko*
beating a bunch of bums in the last 4 years will make you the GOAT.. yea sure


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## ajitator (Feb 5, 2007)

Rastaman said:


> Forrest Griffin without a doubt.


forrest beat rampage and shogun.. and he's hardly heard in the "top fighters of all time" discussion. if anything he's underrated.

and don't make excuses for the fighters he beat


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

ajitator said:


> In order, starting with the most overrated.
> *Roy Nelson*
> beat a bunch of nobodies all of the sudden everyone thinks he can win the belt, lol


Show me one instance of anyone saying they think he can win the belt.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Nate Marquardt. People were saying he deserved a second chance at Anderson, yet this guy has shown nothing to warrant him even being able to lightly bruise Silva. Hes just not that good and he has no mental game either. I'd love to see Rich Franklin wreck this guy.


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## NoSlickRemarks (Feb 6, 2010)

Jon Jones. That "pretty" style of his is going to get him wrecked soon.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Nate Marquardt. People were saying he deserved a second chance at Anderson, yet this guy has shown nothing to warrant him even being able to lightly bruise Silva. Hes just not that good and he has no mental game either. I'd love to see Rich Franklin wreck this guy.


Maybe not MOST overrated. But I agree.

His wins are meh at best. 

Maia is a good win, but Maia doesn't have much for anyone standing and that fight took likr 20 seconds.

Kampmann is a 170 lber now and Marquardt is a big 185. That was a mismatch.

Gouveia is a good talent, but he was cut from the UFC. His head isn't o straight.

He has a bunch of wins, but very few quality wins. It is weird how fighters get pumped up just for winning. To me you have to beat real challengers to be considered for a title shot.


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## Danm2501 (Jun 22, 2009)

ajitator said:


> forrest beat rampage and shogun.. and he's hardly heard in the "top fighters of all time" discussion. if anything he's underrated.
> 
> and don't make excuses for the fighters he beat


Yeah exactly. Forrest is definitely under-rated if anything. Not many people like to admit that Forrest actually has skills and consider him to be a mindless brawler, but you've got to have more than that to beat guys like Rampage, Shogun, Ortiz, Sonnen and Monson. He was also winning the fight against Rashad fairly convincingly (I gave him both rounds 1 and 2) before getting sloppy with his ground defence and getting knocked out. He might have been embarrassed by Anderson Silva, but styles make fights, and Forrest has just about the perfect style for Anderson, and it was always going to end up like that. I still think Forrest can get back in the title picture, just hope he avoids Jon Jones on the way up.


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## skinnyBIGGS (Jul 2, 2010)

GSP the grease machine


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

NoSlickRemarks said:


> Jon Jones. That "pretty" style of his is going to get him wrecked soon.


Throwing people on their ass and elbowing them in their face and shattering facial bones is a "pretty" way of fighting?

Didn't know that.


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## Rastaman (Feb 25, 2010)

ajitator said:


> forrest beat rampage and shogun.. and he's hardly heard in the "top fighters of all time" discussion. if anything he's underrated.
> 
> and don't make excuses for the fighters he beat


Your argument is that he beat Rampage, a fighter that you claim in the post directly before the one quoted above is one of the most overrated fighters of all time, and a still-recovering Shogun. I'll make an excuse for Shogun because I think Shogun would clown on Forrest now and would have a while back when they fought had Shogun not been coming off knee surgery. Also, Forrest barely beat Tito Ortiz recently, which just happens to be another fighter on your list of most overrated. 

I agree with some poster before who said that Forrest had a very lucky run to the championship.


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## GriffinFanKY (Oct 22, 2007)

Thank you all this hate of Forrest I mean he has some good wins and everybody I watched the Rampoage fight with left after the fight bc they were pissed they knew Rampage lost that fight and heck Rampage directly after the fight thought he lost until his trainer started talking.I mean his boxing isn't the fastest but it is crisp.But back on topic the first couple of fighters that popped in my head

Dan Hardy-Supposed to have great KO power but only has 1 KO in the UFC couldnt finish Swick or Davis,no TD defense or ground game at least what I saw and I really dont think beating Swick and Davis qualifies u for a title shot and I really think Condit beats him in October. 

Michael Bisping-How he gets main and co main event fights when he faces cans all the time and when he faces someone good he gets beat maybe a top 10-20 MW but nowhere near ME or CME level.

Urijah Faber-I was thinking of this when I just watched Aldo vs Faber first he cant finish Pulver the first fight which seems to be the norm gets beat twice by Brown doesnt look like he belonged with Aldo I mean the way they hype him up he should still be running through the division I mean he only had to win 1 fight twice to get a title shot and a win over Pulver shouldnt give u one and I think u should have to win at least 2-3 fights to get another title shot,and theirs a reason why hes moving to 135 I think he cant hang with the top 145ers anymore

And outside of the UFC I really think besides Fedor that Shinya Aoki is overrated he came into Strikeforce and looked awful his submissions are good but couldnt even catch Melendez in one and non exsistent striking really think BJ would wreck him


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## 2zwudz (Apr 9, 2007)

This is a good question and alot of us have had good answers but if we notice alot of the fighters that WE think are over rated are fighters that sell PPV's not necassarilly a quality fighter. All in all its a good thing...the sport is growing.


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## NotDylan (Jul 13, 2009)

I love Randy but he gets my vote.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> The most over rated fighter in UFC history has to be Randy Couture, not only is he currently still over rated he always was over rated.


Randy's achievements in the UFC/MMA:

UFC 13 Heavyweight Tournament Winner
UFC Heavyweight Championship (3 times)
UFC Light Heavyweight Championship (2 times)
Interim UFC Light Heavyweight championship (1 time)
Most Championship reigns in UFC history (6 times)
Most Championship fights in UFC history (15 times)
Oldest fighter to win a title in UFC history (43 years, 255 days)
First fighter to hold Championship titles in two weight classes
UFC Hall of Famer
2x Fight of the Night Honors 
(source wikipedia)

Yes...he trully is overrated! :sarcastic12:

BTW: i saw Bisping is one of your favorite fighters. I've also noticed a lot of people nominated him as the most overrated fighter. And looking at his achievements in MMA so far, i think he is one of the best candidates for this "title".


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> for me it is defiantly Tyson Griffin, i think we all know why.


I posted a similar thread last month. To me, Randy's at the top of the list. He's consistently listed as a top 3 GOATs..., to me he's a one dimensional fighter with an 18-10 record, yep, 18-10, ...."but look at who he's fought"...agreed, he's had his slow, one dimensional ass kicked by some really good fighters, he's been beaten by some of the best, doens't make him a GOAT contender.


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## Dan0 (Aug 22, 2008)

This thread contains just too much hate for me to handle.


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## ZeroPRIDE (Apr 12, 2006)

Liddellianenko said:


> Akiyama. I have no idea how this guy ever got ranked as a top 10 MW without beating a single top 20 that was a complete MMA fighter. IMO he's pretty much 0-2 in the UFC against gatekeepers at best, but he was hyped as the next big thing for Asian MMA... I say let Okami keep that mantle.


well he pretty much dominated Leben in the first and you could give the 2nd round to him as well but his poor cardio cost him that fight.Will his UFC coming out party be his next fight? that remains to be seen but i expect much better stamina from Akiyama in his next fight and hopefully a sick sub.

As for him being ranked a top 10 mw you said ask the people who put him there. Me i just love watching the guy fight.

You could add "stun gun" to the list as the next big thing for Asian MMA. He flat out dominated Amir in his last fight.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

mastodon2222 said:


> I posted a similar thread last month. To me, Randy's at the top of the list. He's consistently listed as a top 3 GOATs..., to me he's a one dimensional fighter with an 18-10 record, yep, 18-10, ...."but look at who he's fought"...agreed, he's had his slow, one dimensional ass kicked by some really good fighters, he's been beaten by some of the best, doens't make him a GOAT contender.


What "list" are you talking about? Dana's List? I know of no one who considers him a GOAT. 


Just in the HW division everyone I have listened to considers Fedor, Nog better all time than him. And Randy/CC being a toss for 3rd. Randy is more congratulated for how he has done it....being the much older and smaller guy. Randy is the best UFC HW ever. But no one considers him the best all time.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Brock lesnar hands down


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Brock lesnar hands down


I saw you posted in this thread, and before even opening it, I knew you would say Brock, although he's defending his belt against everyone they've thrown at him.


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## ZeroPRIDE (Apr 12, 2006)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Brock lesnar hands down


He comes back after a year off and beats a damn tough opponent in Carwin, with a submission no less. Hype justified.


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## NotDylan (Jul 13, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Brock lesnar hands down


Troll.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

For me it has to be Dan Henderson. Hendo is the only guy I know that has won more bullshit decisions then any other fighter out there. Ninja Rua, Yuki Kondo, and Bustamante all got robbed.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> What "list" are you talking about? Dana's List? I know of no one who considers him a GOAT.
> 
> 
> Just in the HW division everyone I have listened to considers Fedor, Nog better all time than him. And Randy/CC being a toss for 3rd. Randy is more congratulated for how he has done it....being the much older and smaller guy. Randy is the best UFC HW ever. But no one considers him the best all time.


I think he's in the top ten GOAT of all time but yeah Nog and Fedor are ahead of him. But y'know Randy never did fight in his prime like other guys. And I know he has 10 loses but two of those were to guys that were doped up (Barnett, Belfort) he still has a much better resume than 80% of the other UFC champions. Guys like Frank Mir, Lyoto Machida, Pat Miletich, Jens Pulvar, Ricco Rodriguez, Kevin Randleman, Chuck Liddell, Tito Ortiz, Maurice Smith, Mark Coleman, Tim Sylvia, Rashad Evans, etc etc etc.

My pick for overrated is a tie between *Frank Mir* and *Lyoto Machida*.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

UrbanBounca said:


> I saw you posted in this thread, and before even opening it, I knew you would say Brock, although he's defending his belt against everyone they've thrown at him.



Yep. All four guys lol. People call him the best heavyweight in the world when he has wins over Herring, Couture, Mir and Carwin. Carwin who has onky one notable win on his record damn near beat Brock back to the wwe. Brock is highly over rated. He was practically handed the belt with the level of competition he was given.


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## ZeroPRIDE (Apr 12, 2006)

Being a Lesnar hater does not make you a troll. Trust me real ones are easy to spot.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

NotDylan said:


> Troll.


Apparently if you don't like someones opinion that makes you a troll. I don't like tour trollish response to my statement so you are the troll here.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Yep. All four guys lol. People call him the best heavyweight in the world when he has wins over Herring, Couture, Mir and Carwin. Carwin who has onky one notable win on his record damn near beat Brock back to the wwe. Brock is highly over rated. He was practically handed the belt with the level of competition he was given.


Right, all four of them. He beat Mir, who has been in the sport for more than 10 years, and has arguably the best BJJ of any HW. Heath Herring, who has quite a resume, and has also been fighting for quite awhile. Randy Couture, who holds more UFC records than anyone else on their roster, including HoF's. Last, but certainly not least, Shane Carwin, who _everyone_ expected to come in and dominate him.

Once again, the hype is justified.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc-vbookie-betting/78268-ufc-116-brock-lesnar-vs-shane-carwin.html

Yeah nothing says over rated like having 2/3rds of the board picking against you.


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> What "list" are you talking about? Dana's List? I know of no one who considers him a GOAT.
> 
> 
> Just in the HW division everyone I have listened to considers Fedor, Nog better all time than him. And Randy/CC being a toss for 3rd. Randy is more congratulated for how he has done it....being the much older and smaller guy. Randy is the best UFC HW ever. But no one considers him the best all time.


A major MMA mag polled 5 writers to list thier all time GOATS, and all had Couture in their top 5.


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## ZeroPRIDE (Apr 12, 2006)

cant really use that as peoples opinions. Alot of people just bet on the underdog on the off chance they win.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

ZeroPRIDE said:


> cant really use that as peoples opinions. Alot of people just bet on the underdog on the off chance they win.


That may happen, but when it does you still have the stakes high for Brock take the Jones fight for example

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc-vbookie...rsus-2-jon-jones-vs-vladimir-matyushenko.html

even split in votes but the stakes where massively with Jones

Silva/Sonnen

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc-vbookie-betting/79737-ufc-117-anderson-silva-vs-chael-sonnen.html


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## Can.Opener (Apr 8, 2009)

Jardine
Aoki
Mousasi
Tito
Swick

Arlovski and Vera back in the day.


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## ZeroPRIDE (Apr 12, 2006)

if you take away the 50mi,wtf, 1 user put on anderson, both bets and staked are pretty close.


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## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

It would have to be Forrest Griffin. He isn't that great at anything but to hear the pre-fights you would think he is top 10. He's had to be the luckiest champ ever.


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

Jon Jones, and its not close. beating mid level fighters is great, but i hear people on here calling for him to fight ANDERSON SILVA. hes 9-10 in the LHW, leave the #1 P4P out of this >.>


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## Avery (Dec 15, 2009)

Shields
Sonnen


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

I see a lot of people saying Shields, but I can't understand why. He's 25-4, and has fought some top competition _outside of the UFC_. He hasn't had a fight in the UFC, which will be a true test, but I can't see how he's overrated right now.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> The fact that he's human doesn't make him overrated, any more than it makes Fedor overrated. Everyone loses ... fact is Jones has shown himself to be on another level to everyone he's fought and I don't think the possibility of getting caught makes him overrated.
> 
> By that definition, _every single fighter alive_ is "overrated".


Can't argue with that. The thing is people already said he should fight Anderson Silva over a year ago and that he's the uncrowned champion. I agree that he's as good as he is, nothing less, nothing more, but people make him to be the next coming of Jesus with a nacho hat and a beer barrel in his bag. He was 8:1 favorite against Matyushenko. I'd bet my ass not even Machida would be 8:1 favorite against Matyushenko. To be that good I think he lacks that mental aspect that makes him fight less flashy. Call it down-to-earthness or humility or simply experience of fighting real competition (because so far he hasn't had real opposition). He can't run through anyone and that's what _some people_ just don't get. Again, this is nothing against Jones. He's 23 so he still has a lot of opportunities to learn and I'm sure he will get even better within the next 5 years.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

UrbanBounca said:


> Right, all four of them. He beat Mir, who has been in the sport for more than 10 years, and has arguably the best BJJ of any HW.


Mir also beat him once.



> Heath Herring, who has quite a resume, and has also been fighting for quite awhile.


Not even a top 5 guy. Oh yeah, and it went these distance



> Randy Couture, who holds more UFC records than anyone else on their roster, including HoF's.


A far past his prime out of retirement Randy Couture. How had he done since coming back?



> Last, but certainly not least, Shane Carwin, who _everyone_ expected to come in and dominate him.


Lol since when? People were saying Brock was going to walk through him pre fight. The only time people started giving him credit was after he schooled Brock.



> Once again, the hype is justified.


only in the Brock fan boy world.


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## KittenStrangler (Mar 26, 2010)

^^ Obvious Troll is obvious.

Fedor Emelianenko by far.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

How is Brock not overrated? Everyone was talking about how he'd smash Carwin and how he has these amazing unstoppable takedowns. He got his ass handed to him for an entire round. Yeah, coming back and getting the submission on Carwin was pretty damn impressive but, who really thinks he would've beat Carwin if he didn't gas?

I'm not tryin to hate on Brock, he showed some heart and chin in that fight. But to say he's not overrated is stupid.


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## SandyWH (Oct 18, 2009)

by division

Urijah Faber, Clay Guida, Diego Sanchez, Dan Hardy, Michael Bisping, Rich Franklin, Frank Mir


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Mir also beat him once.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


very dumb comments, i expect your a fedor fanboy who will never give brock any credit even if he beat fedor with his hand behind his back.


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## xLOTUSx (Dec 1, 2008)

Frank Mir


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

ajitator said:


> *Fedor Emilianenko*
> beating a bunch of bums in the last 4 years will make you the GOAT.. yea sure


Being a little harsh here don't you think. 

Gotta go with Roy Nelson, don't see anything spectacular about him and his fighting for a chance to get Cain or Lesnar? :confused02:


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Can't argue with that. The thing is people already said he should fight Anderson Silva over a year ago and that he's the uncrowned champion. I agree that he's as good as he is, nothing less, nothing more, but people make him to be the next coming of Jesus with a nacho hat and a beer barrel in his bag. He was 8:1 favorite against Matyushenko. I'd bet my ass not even Machida would be 8:1 favorite against Matyushenko. To be that good I think he lacks that mental aspect that makes him fight less flashy. Call it down-to-earthness or humility or simply experience of fighting real competition (because so far he hasn't had real opposition). He can't run through anyone and that's what _some people_ just don't get. Again, this is nothing against Jones. He's 23 so he still has a lot of opportunities to learn and I'm sure he will get even better within the next 5 years.


Well can't argue with that ... 8:1 odds is ridiculous, this kinda thing might go to his head and yeah he does seem a little overconfident at times underneath his humble exterior, same as Anderson really. There are also people who trump him to be invincible which no one is, but no one can deny his base talent.


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## daveh98 (May 26, 2007)

MikeHawk said:


> How is Brock not overrated? Everyone was talking about how he'd smash Carwin and how he has these amazing unstoppable takedowns. He got his ass handed to him for an entire round. Yeah, coming back and getting the submission on Carwin was pretty damn impressive but, who really thinks he would've beat Carwin if he didn't gas?
> 
> I'm not tryin to hate on Brock, he showed some heart and chin in that fight. But to say he's not overrated is stupid.


Thats exactly why he is UNDERRATED because he took those shots, survived and found a way to win. His heart and chin were unknowns...now they aren't. I don't even like Brock either


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

SandyWH said:


> by division
> 
> Urijah Faber, Clay Guida, Diego Sanchez, Dan Hardy, Michael Bisping, Rich Franklin, Frank Mir


How in God's name is Rich Franklin overrated?


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## Żołdak (Jul 10, 2010)

Bonnar426 said:


> For me it has to be Dan Henderson. Hendo is the only guy I know that has won more bullshit decisions then any other fighter out there. Ninja Rua, Yuki Kondo, and Bustamante all got robbed.


Don't forget about Babalu, Kanehara, Rich Franklin, Carlos Newton and Big Nog.

I'm glad someone finally said Henderson. I've never seen a guy win so many crap decisions in my entire life. Henderson COULD be good or could have been good but the guy fights like a complete idiot. ZERO discipline. Trying to stand and bang with Rampage and a prime Wanderlei while having some of the best wrestling credentials in MMA? Rampage is overrated as hell also, but few people deny that he doesn't have great stand up and KO power.

I'd say either Dan Hardy or Rampage in the UFC.

Hardy doesn't have much KO power, and has ZERO ground skills. How he became the #4 welterweight is beyond me. The guy will get spanked by any top contender in the WW division.

Rampage has also won just about as many bullshit decisions next to Henderson. Ninja, Bustamante, and Lindland all got robbed badly against Rampage. 

Honorable mentions go to Thiago Silva, Nate Marquardt, Tyson Griffin, and Stefan Struve.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

can't believe no-one else has said Nick Diaz! The guy is touted as the 2nd best WW in the world by some (and some even think he would beat GSP)He has losses on his record to Sherk, Riggs and Sanchez and who does he actually have career wins over? His best 3 are Chris Lytle, Robbie lawler and a 36 year old frank Shamrock! How this guy gets the buzz he does is beyond me!


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

edlavis88 said:


> can't believe no-one else has said Nick Diaz! The guy is touted as the 2nd best WW in the world by some (and some even think he would beat GSP)He has losses on his record to Sherk, Riggs and Sanchez and who does he actually have career wins over? His best 3 are Chris Lytle, Robbie lawler and a 36 year old frank Shamrock! How this guy gets the buzz he does is beyond me!


Both of the Diaz sisters are mega overrated. They both lose to any good fighter they face and yet still try to act like they're the best in the world


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

edlavis88 said:


> can't believe no-one else has said Nick Diaz! The guy is touted as the 2nd best WW in the world by some (and some even think he would beat GSP)He has losses on his record to Sherk, Riggs and Sanchez and who does he actually have career wins over? His best 3 are Chris Lytle, Robbie lawler and a 36 year old frank Shamrock! How this guy gets the buzz he does is beyond me!


He also beat Mach Sakurai and Takanori Gomi (Techinically NSAC stripped that win do to the fact Nick tested positive for Marijuana but that was complete horseshit). The problem with Nick is that his style really doesn't fit well in the cage. Which is why he will continually promote Pride rules whether you ask him about it or not!


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> very dumb comments, i expect your a fedor fanboy who will never give brock any credit even if he beat fedor with his hand behind his back.


Why are they dumb? They seem pretty factual to me. I'm not a fedor fanboy either. You're taking hypathetical. I'm talking reality and brocks past fights.


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## Skull Hammer (Jan 7, 2010)

well there is no way that Tyson Griffin is THE MOST overrated fighter !! he maybe overhyped !!

here r guys who i think overrated !
FRANK EDGAR (THE MOST) - Rampage Jackson - Roy Nelson - Shane Carwin


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Will someone please explain to me how Rich Franklin is over rated? The guys only legit losses are to Anderson Silva. He lost a very controversial decision to Hendo, and got caught to the back of the head by Belfort. He ruled the mw division before silva, and would probably still be mw champ if it wasn't for silva.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Rich Franklin, hands down.


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## Mirage445 (Dec 20, 2006)

Gotta go with Forrest Griffin.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

AlphaDawg said:


> Rich Franklin, hands down.


Iswydt


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Skull Hammer said:


> well there is no way that Tyson Griffin is THE MOST overrated fighter !! he maybe overhyped !!
> 
> here r guys who i think overrated !
> FRANK EDGAR (THE MOST) - Rampage Jackson - Roy Nelson - Shane Carwin


well frank edgar is the champ so he cant be overrated and i haven't heard any1 rate him,they all say that bj gonna smash him next fight which bj will do.



PheelGoodInc said:


> Will someone please explain to me how Rich Franklin is over rated? The guys only legit losses are to Anderson Silva. He lost a very controversial decision to Hendo, and got caught to the back of the head by Belfort. He ruled the mw division before silva, and would probably still be mw champ if it wasn't for silva.


i have seen franklin vs hendo, hendo clearly won that fight there was nothing controversial about that except the accidental headbutt.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

I know I'll get heat for it but, I don't think Anderson Silva is as great as everyone makes him out to be. I've never been impressed with the competition he's faced at MW. It could be just because he demolishes everyone, but I don't think he's as good as he's made out to be.

Until he faces someone of Shogun's/Machida's striking level, I wont be impressed.

Now, don't get me wrong. He's an amazing stiker. I just don't feel he's faced anyone thats even close to his level (not that it's his fault). The UFC's MW division has always been weak.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> i have seen franklin vs hendo, hendo clearly won that fight there was nothing controversial about that except the accidental headbutt.


I haven't watched that fight lately, but I remember thinking he was completely robbed. I thought he landed more strikes and did more damage. I remember I wasn't the only one either.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

you would be thinking of shogun-machida 1


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

MikeHawk said:


> I know I'll get heat for it but, I don't think Anderson Silva is as great as everyone makes him out to be. I've never been impressed with the competition he's faced at MW. It could be just because he demolishes everyone, but I don't think he's as good as he's made out to be.
> 
> Until he faces someone of Shogun's/Machida's striking level, I wont be impressed.
> 
> Now, don't get me wrong. He's an amazing stiker. I just don't feel he's faced anyone thats even close to his level (not that it's his fault). The UFC's MW division has always been weak.


I can see your point, but don't forget Shogun struggled to outstrike Griffin and look how badly Anderson outclassed him in the stand up.
The reason Anderson is so highly touted is the way in which he outstrikes people. He may not have faced many elite strikers but when his head is in the right place no-one else in MMA dominates and destroys people like he does.


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## ballers101 (Aug 6, 2010)

In the UFC I think the most overrated fighter is Rampage because he really hasn't done enough in the UFC to prove that he deserves a shot at the best light heavyweights or even the light heavyweight champion.

In MMA today however, I believe the most overrated fighter is Fedor. I know that is a big thing to say but literally I have to put it out there. He is highly ranked by many people, people think he is the best pound for pound fighter in the world. Now to be the best you have to fight the best. Now we all know that UFC has the most competitive and has the strongest fighters in the world if Fedor was the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world he should join the UFC and beat every single fighter. Just like how Anderson Silva did. I mean Fedor has faced some very good fighters but he hasn't faced a guy like Brock Lesnar, Shane Carwin, Cain Velasquez or Frank Mir.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

ballers101 said:


> In the UFC I think the most overrated fighter is Rampage because he really hasn't done enough in the UFC to prove that he deserves a shot at the best light heavyweights or even the light heavyweight champion.


I agree. His only wins are against no names. I mean really, who the **** is Chuck Liddell?


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## ballers101 (Aug 6, 2010)

Well ever since losing to Griffin his biggest accomplishment is knocking out Wanderlia Silva who has lost 5 of his last 7 fights. He barely beat Jardine and Rashad basically toyed around with him. I like the guy because he is an exciting fighter but to deserve shots against the top guys in the division you should be able to beat the top guys in the division. And in his last 4 fights he has not beaten anyone who we consider the TOP guys in the division.


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## Żołdak (Jul 10, 2010)

Don't forget that Chuck Liddell isn't the most underrated guy out there. Anyone with better striking and more power than Chuck could have beaten him back even in his prime. Sadly, Chuck wasn't pitted against guys like Wanderlei (prime), Shogun, Minotauro, etc. We all saw Chuck exposed against Rampage, who is stylisticall a terrible matchup any day for Chuck.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

UFC_OWNS said:


> i have seen franklin vs hendo, hendo clearly won that fight there was nothing controversial about that except the accidental headbutt.


R1- Hendo

R3- Franklin

R2- First half of round Hendo is on top, but Franklin neutralizes him from advancing position and holds him to only 3 punches. Second half of round Franklin easily out strikes him. This round should go to Franklin for bottom defense and better striking. 

Franklin was robbed bad.


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## Jags (Aug 7, 2010)

Bisping for me, he was who really got me intrested in the uFC but i prefer other English fighters now but his fight againts Hendo showed him up.

He's a decent fighter but wont be at the top.


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## Żołdak (Jul 10, 2010)

Bisping is the Cheick Kongo of the Middleweight division. He will continue to beat up the lower and mid ranked fighters in his weight class, but he'll continue to come up short against top competition.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Żołdak;1237718 said:


> Don't forget that Chuck Liddell isn't the most underrated guy out there. Anyone with better striking and more power than Chuck could have beaten him back even in his prime. Sadly, Chuck wasn't pitted against guys like Wanderlei (prime), Shogun, Minotauro, etc. We all saw Chuck exposed against Rampage, who is stylisticall a terrible matchup any day for Chuck.


Chuck beat Wandy and there showings immediately previous to and following that fight prove to me that Chuck has declined much more rapidly than Wandy.


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## Shoegazer (Jun 23, 2007)

So many overrated fighters out there...these come to mind for me:

Bisping
Koschek
Maynard 
Marquardt
Vera
Barry


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

It is Fedor the guy is a can crusher who got tooled by Werdum who is borderline top ten at HW and the first quality fighter he has faced since crocop. Matt Lindland who has never beaten anyone yet gets talked about like he is one of the greatest MWs of all time gets an honorable mention.


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