# BS finish



## MMARocks (Jan 24, 2007)

If the 2 elbows were illegal, they hit on the jaw and side of the head.
Matt Hamill was already toast and those 2 elbows weren't the cause. Jones won the fight and got it taken away.


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## unclehulka13 (Nov 17, 2008)

MMARocks said:


> If the 2 elbows were illegal, they hit on the jaw and side of the head.
> Matt Hamill was already toast and those 2 elbows weren't the cause. Jones won the fight and got it taken away.


Yo dawg, im proud of you. But hamill is the best fighter of all time. of all time!


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

Yeah that was bs I dont get how elbows like that are illegals elbows are elbows I mean he was done even before that. So stupid.


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## unclehulka13 (Nov 17, 2008)

DragonStriker said:


> Yeah that was bs I dont get how elbows like that are illegals elbows are elbows I mean he was done even before that. So stupid.


north south elbows are illegal unless they're glancing.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

unclehulka13 said:


> north south elbows are illegal unless they're glancing.


Oh ok I never saw that in a fight so I was like wtf but yeah it should be a nc then.


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## hixxy (Sep 7, 2007)

Should have been a no contest really..


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

So you guys would have been fine with Jons stopping the fight with a knee to Hamill's head too?

I get that there isn't that much difference between the elbow strikes but illegal blows are illegal blows. Illegal blows that end the fight lead to disqualification. Right call by the judges/ref.


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## Ocelot (Sep 6, 2008)

didn't Anderson do that to someone from triangle position?


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## Chousakan (Apr 20, 2008)

Just lost a lot of respect for Hamill, Jones threw 2 illegal elbows(2 that they replayed anyway, one of the elbows was on the cheek and one across the forehead), was docked a point, and then disqualified cause Hamill dislocated his shoulder(yeah right, so he waits for the illegal elbows to say it happened)... and had his nose busted up good by legal elbows so couldn't get up after the illegal elbows.
Not happy with the outcome on this, Hamill just robbed a fighter of a legit win because he has a bitch heart...


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## unclehulka13 (Nov 17, 2008)

Ocelot said:


> didn't Anderson do that to someone from triangle position?


they were glancing. Talking about Travis Lutter right?


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Ocelot said:


> didn't Anderson do that to someone from triangle position?


Similar, but not exactly the same.


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## DKent (May 16, 2009)

Ocelot said:


> didn't Anderson do that to someone from triangle position?


You're talking about the Lutter fight. Goldberg questioned it but Rogan said it was ok because he was actually throwing them from an angle.


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## Ocelot (Sep 6, 2008)

unclehulka13 said:


> they were glancing. Talking about Travis Lutter right?


Yeah but still glancing shouldn't really be a factor y'know? I mean, should a kick to the junk be ok if it is glancing?


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

I agree with the decision. Illegal blows are illegal blows. If you don't respect the rules, you deserve to be penalized. If said blow doesn't end the fight, a point should be removed, if it does end the fight, the rule breaker should be DQ'd. Like someone said earlier, he might as well knee him or low blow him while he's at it.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

The way Rogan was talking it sounded like this was a new rule.


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Chousakan said:


> Just lost a lot of respect for Hamill, Jones threw 2 illegal elbows(2 that they replayed anyway, one of the elbows was on the cheek and one across the forehead), was docked a point, and then disqualified cause Hamill dislocated his shoulder(yeah right, so he waits for the illegal elbows to say it happened)... and had his nose busted up good by legal elbows so couldn't get up after the illegal elbows.
> Not happy with the outcome on this, Hamill just robbed a fighter of a legit win because he has a bitch heart...


Are you out of your mind or something? What the **** did Hammill do to make you lsoe respect for him. The dude got finished by illegal strikes. Put the blame where it belongs which is on Jones hands.

Hammill didnt make the call for the DQ he was to busy being fucked up by some illegal elbows. Man im sorry but ignorant statements liek this just anger me.

Im not happy with the outcome either man but don't be stupid. Jones should know what is and isn't illegal that's part of his job as a fighter. If you can't stick to the rules action has to be taken (Albeit alittle much with the DQ a N/C would have sufficed)


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## HorsepoweR (Jun 1, 2007)

Emericanaddict said:


> Are you out of your mind or something? What the **** did Hammill do to make you lsoe respect for him. The dude got finished by illegal strikes. Put the blame where it belongs which is on Jones hands.
> 
> Hammill didnt make the call for the DQ he was to busy being fucked up by some illegal elbows. Man im sorry but ignorant statements liek this just anger me.
> 
> Im not happy with the outcome either man but don't be stupid. Jones should know what is and isn't illegal that's part of his job as a fighter. If you can't stick to the rules action has to be taken (Albeit alittle much with the DQ a N/C would have sufficed)


++++1


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Really, in the long term its not a big deal at all. This doesn't hurt Bones career really. I'm pretty sure the UFC is going to interpret it as a win in the rankings. Too bad it takes a way from a great performance though.


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

The thing is at worst it should have been a no contest..Look at the burns/johnson match for instance I mean what kind of judging criteria went into the decision to award burns the match on the heels of an eye poke??? it seems like the same situation here yet jones comes off the loser? I dont get that


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## Ocelot (Sep 6, 2008)

Emericanaddict said:


> Are you out of your mind or something? What the **** did Hammill do to make you lsoe respect for him. The dude got finished by illegal strikes. Put the blame where it belongs which is on Jones hands.
> 
> Hammill didnt make the call for the DQ he was to busy being fucked up by some illegal elbows. Man im sorry but ignorant statements liek this just anger me.
> 
> Im not happy with the outcome either man but don't be stupid. Jones should know what is and isn't illegal that's part of his job as a fighter. If you can't stick to the rules action has to be taken (Albeit alittle much with the DQ a N/C would have sufficed)


Being honest i'm a fighter and even i didn't know that was illegal.


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## Chousakan (Apr 20, 2008)

You are mad, he wasn't finished by the two elbows, he was butchered on the ground for over a minute then copped 2 illegal blows for which a point should of been docked and was.
Then Hamill can't get up due to the LEGAL mauling so the fight is called. Hamill is a bitch, neg rep me if you want I don't care, but in my mind he saw the easy win and took it. 
I find the arm a BS thing to use as an excuse, if it really is fubar then it is because Jones wrecked him hard before anything illegal was thrown, he was defending with it the same as the other arm until the very end.
Jones should of been docked a point and Hamill stood back up, if his arm was so bad then stop the fight for that, the elbows didn't do that...
By the book or not it's a BS result.

BTW I found the way Jones celebrated off putting, not saying I'm thrilled with Jones after this match either, he should of known at that point he would be DQ'd and Hamill would win. You don't run around celebrating after illegal blows stop a fight(even if it is BS in my mind).


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## bedcommando (Oct 16, 2006)

what Iuanes said. Theres no way they'll give Jones a less calibre opponent. If anything expect to see Bones vs some top 10 opponents soon. He hasn't really struggled too much with his matches.

Sure he would have won if he hadn't thrown the illegals but rules are rules. Like he said he's happy and healthy, he may not have got the W but he won't be going to a hospital tonight :thumb02:


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Ocelot said:


> didn't Anderson do that to someone from triangle position?


Somewhat similar, but not really. What Silva did was more of a sweeping back elbow that came across his body before hitting Lutter in the head. It wasn't a straight up & down elbow like the one Jones dropped on Hamill.

Personally I'm not too upset with the finish. Them's the rules and that's the way it is, unfortunate, yes, but what can you do?


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Then being honest you have no business in the ring against a fellow competitor if you don't understand the rules because your putting another person in danger. You can't deny Hammill was defending fine until those elbows.

Sorry to be harsh im sure your a great guy but come on guys ignorance is NOT a excuse. If your going to be actively involved ina sport or compete in a sport no matter how miniscule the level you need to have sufficient knowledge of what is and isn't acceptable in regards to the rules.

Once again im sorry and im not trying to mount a personal attack but this is getting silly now. Claiming ignorance just isn't going to support anyones case.


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## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

Kreed said:


> The thing is at worst it should have been a no contest..Look at the burns/johnson match for instance I mean what kind of judging criteria went into the decision to award burns the match on the heels of an eye poke??? it seems like the same situation here yet jones comes off the loser? I dont get that


It's a no contest if a fighter can't continue based on something out of the fighters hands. Such as in boxing when two fighters heads collide and one can't continue.

These were several intentional and illegal elbows. Hence it's a disqualification and not a no contest.

Jones would have won if he simply stuck with legal strikes. And the argument could be made that the fight should have been stopped before the strikes. But since it wasn't stopped earlier it was a fair decision to give it a DQ.


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## KevinLee (Dec 31, 2006)

Chousakan said:


> You are mad, he wasn't finished by the two elbows, he was butchered on the ground for over a minute then copped 2 illegal blows for which a point should of been docked and was.
> Then Hamill can't get up due to the LEGAL mauling so the fight is called. Hamill is a bitch, neg rep me if you want I don't care, but in my mind he saw the easy win and took it.
> I find the arm a BS thing to use as an excuse, if it really is fubar then it is because Jones wrecked him hard before anything illegal was thrown, he was defending with it the same as the other arm until the very end.
> Jones should of been docked a point and Hamill stood back up, if his arm was so bad then stop the fight for that, the elbows didn't do that...
> By the book or not it's a BS result.





Let me guess, by your stupid posts, stupid opinion, ignorance and stupidity and finally by your name 'Chousakan' I am going to assume you are an uneducated, inbred indian.


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## Light_Speed (Jun 3, 2009)

steve mazagatti should get slumped in his head for this call.... anyone who says jones should have got dq'ed should go eat there grandpas balls....fuckin bullshit JONES DOMINATED Hamil..DOMINATED..hamill was DONE FOR WAAAAYY WAYYY WAAAAY before those elbows


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

Emericanaddict said:


> Then being honest you have no business in the ring against a fellow competitor if you don't understand the rules because your putting another person in danger. You can't deny Hammill was defending fine until those elbows.
> 
> Sorry to be harsh im sure your a great guy but come on guys ignorance is NOT a excuse. If your going to be actively involved ina sport or compete in a sport no matter how miniscule the level you need to have sufficient knowledge of what is and isn't acceptable in regards to the rules.
> 
> Once again im sorry and im not trying to mount a personal attack but this is getting silly now. Claiming ignorance just isn't going to support anyones case.


what he said 

illegal blows are illegal plain and simple


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## Ocelot (Sep 6, 2008)

Emericanaddict said:


> Then being honest you have no business in the ring against a fellow competitor if you don't understand the rules because your putting another person in danger. You can't deny Hammill was defending fine until those elbows.
> 
> Sorry to be harsh im sure your a great guy but come on guys ignorance is NOT a excuse. If your going to be actively involved ina sport or compete in a sport no matter how miniscule the level you need to have sufficient knowledge of what is and isn't acceptable in regards to the rules.
> 
> Once again im sorry and im not trying to mount a personal attack but this is getting silly now. Claiming ignorance just isn't going to support anyones case.


i don't take it personal at all, i am glad i saw this fight because that would have been horrible if i seriously hurt someone with that shot, and i wouldn't have used it as an excuse. Though still Anderson should have been just as penalized as Jones. Also i was saying that just to show that some of us honestly don't know that rule exists we don't over the entire rule book and we sure aren't told that before the fight it's a little known rule that i guess just got the mainstream attention it deserved.


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## Iuanes (Feb 17, 2009)

Kreed said:


> The thing is at worst it should have been a no contest..What kind of judging criteria came into play in the burns/johnson match that led to burns scoring the win despite an illegale eye poke??? it seems like the same situation here yet jones comes off the loser ytonisgt? I dont get that


Hahaha, I think was Steve Mazzagatti in both these fights no? He said he didn't see the poke and this fight you just have to assume if the fighter can't continue after illegal strikes it because of them.

Its funny too because he was just on Inside MMA and he was saying he's not there to popular and sometimes you have make the tough calls etc. This guy just seems to find these situations. Unless it wasn't Mazzagatti this fight.

Honestly when he called the fight I though by logic it should have a been a no contest. Its shitty but it REALLY doesn't matter. Hammill could be nice and give Bones the win purse though.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

How do people seriously not know that a vertical elbow is illegal? Rogan bitches about it every chance he gets. The two are completely different. Just because they're both elbows doesn't mean they're the same.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

He couldn't continue because of his shoulder not from an illegal strike and bones changed the angle at the end of both of those elbows so they weren't 12-6 terrible reffing and a cowardly ending.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Either way, a crap ending to an extremely exciting fight.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

_Then being honest you have no business in the ring against a fellow competitor if you don't understand the rules because your putting another person in danger. You can't deny Hammill was defending fine until those elbows_

Rogan explained why they are illegal. They're no more dangerous than regular elbows....


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## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

Illegal blows are illegal blows. That said, Hammill was done before the illegal elbow. Anyone arguinng that those blows ended the fight just have their judgement skewed by the illegal elbow.


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## EROK2010 (Dec 6, 2009)

*raceist reff*

Steve Mazzigatti is a RACEIST, in the Jon "Bones" Jones fight vs. Matt "The Hammer" Hamill Bones was inialating The Hammer, Landing Elbows left and right Bringing the blood when The Hammer was doing nothing.. HE laid there doing nothing for 50 seconds when finally landed a Illegal elbow "that he did not know was illegal". Mazzigatti stood them up and stated to deduct a point, THen asked the hammer if he would wish to continue, when stating no the fight was over. Within the next minutes Mazzigatti decided to Disqualify Jones.


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## FrodoFraggins (Oct 25, 2009)

AlphaDawg said:


> How do people seriously not know that a vertical elbow is illegal? Rogan bitches about it every chance he gets. The two are completely different. Just because they're both elbows doesn't mean they're the same.


Despite Rogan's claims that all elbows are the same, there's an obvious reason why vertical are illegal. All of the force of the elbow drives the opponents head directly into the mat. Elbows at an angle deliver a certain amount of that force sideways where there's space for the head to move. Rogan don't know physics.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Annihilating?


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

TraMaI said:


> _Then being honest you have no business in the ring against a fellow competitor if you don't understand the rules because your putting another person in danger. You can't deny Hammill was defending fine until those elbows_
> 
> Rogan explained why they are illegal. They're no more dangerous than regular elbows....


YOu can't base much off Rogan's oppinions dude. In Rogan's oppinion the entire world should be smoking pot everyday because it's the key to self awareness and other crazy shit like that. He can make a point at times but at the end of the day anything going on a downward movement is going to carry more momentum that the same strike horrizontally.

Take into account that with the head allready flat on the mat of the Octagon and this leaves no room for anykind of shock absorbtion.

For example if I hit you in the head with a rock while standing in a side to side motion it's not going to be nearly as devstating as if im swinging said rock DOWN onto your head when it's flat with the ground.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

jcc78 said:


> its spelled "racist" and "annihilating" you mental midget.


Stop insulting other members.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

jcc78 said:


> Stop singling me out.


I am not singling you out. I'm asking you to stop insulting other members, no more, no less.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

I just dont get what possessed Jones to throw those elbows. Man you could tell right away he knew he did it! He was sooo guilty he started an excuse right away. He was dominating Hammil so why would he do that, maybe he cant control himself. And as for Rogaine, a spear elbow like that is a lot more dangerous than any other kind of elbow THUS its illegal. It doesnt matter if they ended the fight or not they are illegal and it was completely intentional. And im not happy about it either. Something wrong with jones, maybe he got dropped on his head when he was a baby!


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

KevinLee said:


> Let me guess, by your stupid posts, stupid opinion, ignorance and stupidity and finally by your name 'Chousakan' I am going to assume you are an uneducated, inbred indian.


 
Not really a cool post man nor acceptable...please post in a civil manor and respect the other members of the forum....



jcc78 said:


> Stop singling me out.


JCC, we talked this afternoon right??? There is a tone that keeps arising.....


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Jones' long arms actally hurt him there it seems, not many guys can so easily throw vertical elbows from that position but he has that unreal arm length.

Either way to those that said this would derail the JJ hype train..... CHOOOO CHOOOOOO baby!!! A very convincing loss that will no doubt move him up the UFC food chain regardless and Hamill down. The striking was impressive, the kicks looked crisp and powerful and he shook off a couple of Hamills TDs pretty easily and advanced position super fast after hurting MH and really what a killer instinct the kid has.... 22 years old.... i said it before, i'll say it again.... he may lose for real in the future but he is a future LHW champion.

Andersons elbows looked worse and Diego seemed to be doing some north/south elbows on Guida aswell.


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## DanTheJu (Mar 3, 2007)

No contest
Eye poke

This fight could NOT be ruled a NO CONTEST… A no contest can only be ruled if a fight is stopped due to an accidental foul, such as both fighters leaning in an head butting each other or an accidental eye poke. 

In this case the foul was intentional and repeated. It was no accident. Therefore if the fight is stopped after a foul, it has to be ruled a disqualification. Pretty simple! Just because you think a NC is less damaging to a fighters record does not mean that it is the right call!

So how come the burns/Johnson fight was not call a NC? Simple! The ref did not see the eye poke and can not call it a NC. The ref has to witness the foul… It was a very poor job by the ref, but following the rules it was not a NC.

Do I think Hamill had a chance at winning this fight if the elbows were not dropped? Not at all, the fight was pretty much over, but that does not open the door to cheating! You have to follow the rules, winning or loosing!


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

KevinLee said:


> Let me guess, by your stupid posts, stupid opinion, ignorance and stupidity and finally by your name 'Chousakan' I am going to assume you are an uneducated, inbred indian.


wow would someone this bigot already :bye02:. 

EDIT: nm i see he got the warning


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

He should not have been disqualified. The reason being is because the fight was not stopped because of the illegal elbows imo. The fight was stopped because Hamill dislocated his arm and he couldn't continue. If I am right and the fight stopped because of his arm then Jon Jones should get the win because the elbows wouldn't come into play. It just looked like the fight stopped because the elbows because that's the last thing that happened before the fight was stopped. The win and loss on each fighters record does not matter though because everyone who saw the fight knows who really won that fight. I think it would be very hard to argue that Hamill would have won if it weren't for the illegal elbows.


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## YOURMOMWASHERE (Sep 20, 2009)

Know the rules and follow them. Its not like this "loss" will really hurt jones, we all know he destroyed hamill. Plus hamill got robbed before so I guess this was making it a little even for him. But really, he got destroyed in that fight. Jones is damn good for a 22 year old kid.

Hypetrain = not derailed.........yet.


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## UrbanBounca (Sep 13, 2009)

_No contest_ is given if the blow was accidental, such as a groin shot. Jones threw three illegal elbows, which were _far_ from accidental.

Jones gave this fight away, as far as I'm concerned.


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

awww...this is bullsh!t.....tonight is funky:thumbsdown:


I knew I shoulda went to the reggae concert.


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## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

osmium said:


> He couldn't continue because of his shoulder not from an illegal strike and bones changed the angle at the end of both of those elbows so they weren't 12-6 terrible reffing and a cowardly ending.


i saw it the same way. looked to me like was trying to angle them around the defense not a straight up 12-6 elbow.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

MMARocks said:


> If the 2 elbows were illegal, they hit on the jaw and side of the head.
> Matt Hamill was already toast and those 2 elbows weren't the cause. Jones won the fight and got it taken away.


I agree Jones was tooling him leading up to those elbows and all the "illegal" elbows did was put the icing on the cake..however its a rule that he broke 3 times in 3 seconds so obviously it has to be a No Contest...I am not saying I like it but those are the rules. Hammill looked dead right after Steve pulled Bones off though, anyone else agree?


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

Jon Jones completely dominated this fight but those blows were definetly illegal no doubt about it. But you can't blame Hammill about the stoppage whatsoever, it seemed as though when he was talking he didnt even know they were illegal blows, hell it didnt even seem he knew he won the fight. The guy cant even hear I dont think he knew exactly what was goin on, seemed he thought it was stopped cause of his shoulder.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

I knew there'd be some stupid JBJ nuthuggers bitching about this stoppage.


Jones and Hamill were landing about the same amount of shots standing. Jones took Hamill down and mounted him. He wasn't able to inflict punishing blows (and baited the ref - dirtbag move) so he did two illegal moves. The two illegal moves were the direct reason that Hamill couldn't go on.


Totally straight-cut DQ, no arguments, end of story.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

It is a bullshit rule and should be changed. If you go by the rule, it was illegal. However, the only reason the fight was stopped is because Hammil's shoulder was messed up and he had been beat up on the ground. He said he couldn't continue not because of the 12-6 elbows, but because he had had his ass handed to him.

It is total crap, but then again so is the rule. If you really have a problem with it, send a letter the the athletic commissions telling them how crappy the rule is. I know I will be because I believe that it is total crap and always has been.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

420atalon said:


> So you guys would have been fine with Jons stopping the fight with a knee to Hamill's head too?
> 
> I get that there isn't that much difference between the elbow strikes but illegal blows are illegal blows. Illegal blows that end the fight lead to disqualification. Right call by the judges/ref.





Ocelot said:


> didn't Anderson do that to someone from triangle position?





unclehulka13 said:


> they were glancing. Talking about Travis Lutter right?


Those elbows were parallel to the floor making them Legal.


Does it make sense??? Nope.


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## zescstar (Apr 27, 2007)

SideWays222 said:


> Those elbows were parallel to the floor making them Legal.
> 
> 
> Does it make sense??? Nope.


i think it has to do with being on your back because of the substantially less amount of power you have when throwing them. im not sure though which makes them legal.

its a rule with a dumb twist to it. like having one hand on the mat even if standing is considered a downed opponent and cant be knee'd


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## Crester (Apr 5, 2009)

hixxy said:


> Should have been a no contest really..


That's exactly what should have happened...


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> I knew there'd be some stupid JBJ nuthuggers bitching about this stoppage.
> 
> 
> Jones and Hamill were landing about the same amount of shots standing. Jones took Hamill down and mounted him. He wasn't able to inflict punishing blows (and baited the ref - dirtbag move) so he did two illegal moves. The two illegal moves were the direct reason that Hamill couldn't go on.
> ...


 your always rude... calling ppl stupid now for their opinion?? On top of being delusional... your saying Hamill was getting anything on the exchanges?? LOL you just cant admit when your wrong and go into delusional childish silly excuse mode, are you related to Tito perhaps?? Lol im sure Tito will tell ya he was getting even in the exchanges with Forrest in round 3.... LOL @ you saying the stand up was even... yea if getting punched and kicked in the face 10x for every attempted punch is even.... check the fight stats too... lemme guess those are fake too right?? lol 

Lol yea you said the JBJ "Hype train" was gonna get derailed and he would be "exposed".... guess he was exposed... exposed as alot better then Matt Hamill

So straight cut DQ huh?? Too bad MH was out long before those elbows and only Mazz the Moron would not stop that fight once he was mounted and not defending himself or trying to get Jones off while taking a flurry of head shots.


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## Couchwarrior (Jul 13, 2007)

As far as I know there isn't a single rule in all of MMA that is as confusing as the downwards elbow rule. It's been discussed several times on this board when it applies and when it doesn't. The last time if I remember correctly, the consensus at the end was that it apparently means downwards elbows to the top of the head from the standing position, such as the MT flying elbow. Now it seems that we were wrong, and I'm more confused than before.

So Jones got a DQ loss, big deal. Every single person who saw the fight still knows:
1. ...that there wouldn't have been any illegal elbows if Mazz had known when to stop the fight.
2. ...that the illegal elbows didn't end the fight.
3. ...that Jones was by far the better fighter yesterday.


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## LivingDedMan (May 10, 2007)

Those elbows shouldn't be illegal. What's the difference between dropping elbows from 12 to 6 compare to throwing elbows from your back to the top of someone's head from 3 to 9? That's what was happening in the fight right after Jones' and those are allowed. It's not like gravity is adding any power to the elbows when they are coming down instead of sideways.


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

Anyone remember james irvin vs thiago silva, if memory serves me thiago kneed irvin when he was still on the ground was that not intentional? why was thiago awarded the win in that incident? this jones thing is just another in a long line of iffy calls made in this sport recently


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

_I think the call is absolutly right! If you do an illegal move like Jones did, you have to be disqualified for it because otherwise we don't need those rules anymore. Every other fighter would try to do it as well to win the fight this way. It's good to see this call! Even through i feel bad for Jones record. _ 



FrodoFraggins said:


> Despite Rogan's claims that all elbows are the same, there's an obvious reason why vertical are illegal. All of the force of the elbow drives the opponents head directly into the mat. Elbows at an angle deliver a certain amount of that force sideways where there's space for the head to move. Rogan don't know physics.


_Good point!
I guess i remember Rogan said something like you can break Ice with them:confused02: is that true? 
If it is true, then you can also split a head with them._


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

*this thread is funny, jones completely agrees with hamill winning, just fyi*


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## rushStPierre (Nov 22, 2009)

M_D said:


> *this thread is funny, jones completely agrees with hamill winning, just fyi*


hes just being humble,

he can relax in his mind knowing that guy who he fought had no chance in hell of beating him.


i wouldnt be surprised if dana came out and blasted this decision fiercely.

well what do you know, mazagatti was reffing. smfh


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## out 4 the count (Oct 13, 2008)

It was a pretty silly decision really. I can't be bothered to repeat things that have alrdy been said, so I will just add that how would you match make for Jones next fight? Would you give him a step down in quality as if it was a loss, when really he should be stepping up?


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

out 4 the count said:


> It was a pretty silly decision really. I can't be bothered to repeat things that have alrdy been said, so I will just add that how would you match make for Jones next fight? Would you give him a step down in quality as if it was a loss, when really he should be stepping up?


well the match showed is lacking of how to conduct himself in the cage so yeah i would say step down, he is a great fighter but he has more to learn


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## rushStPierre (Nov 22, 2009)

M_D said:


> well the match showed is lacking of how to conduct himself in the cage so yeah i would say step down, he is a great fighter but he has more to learn


talk about a hater, haha

im glad you have no say in running anything in the UFC


and you said that jones said hamill won, where was that exactly?



> “I was kind of confused,” said Jones (9-1). “I thought a point was being taken away. I wasn’t really positive what was going on.
> 
> “I thought I won,” he continued. “When they said I lost, I thought, ‘No, it can’t be happening,’


thats from a yahoo article, good try tho.


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

rushStPierre said:


> talk about a hater, haha
> 
> im glad you have no say in running anything in the UFC
> 
> ...


 I didn't win that fight. I did something illegal. That's my youth and inexperience. I messed up. I threw an illegal move and I didn't win. If I was smarter, I would have thrown the elbows more correctly. I got to go back to the drawing board." -Jon Jones
http://www.fiveknuckles.com/mma-news/Jon-Jones-I-didnt-win-that-fight-I-did-something-illegal.html
:thumb02:

just fyi, I like jones


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## rushStPierre (Nov 22, 2009)

M_D said:


> I didn't win that fight. I did something illegal. That's my youth and inexperience. I messed up. I threw an illegal move and I didn't win. If I was smarter, I would have thrown the elbows more correctly. I got to go back to the drawing board." -Jon Jones
> http://www.fiveknuckles.com/mma-news/Jon-Jones-I-didnt-win-that-fight-I-did-something-illegal.html
> :thumb02:
> 
> *just fyi, I like jones*


its hard to tell with you saying he should take a step down from this :sarcastic12:

how can anyone in their right mind think he should face someone lower than a person he just destroyed. 

*Dana voice* This is not ****ing boxing


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

because he lost, he showed inexperience in the ring and the rules you must follow while inside them he should not be rewarded for this. he did do a good fight and has the skills to move up but he should not for this could be looked down upon by lots of people that a guy would move up the leaderboards even though his last fight he won by illegal blows to an opponent


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## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

I was blown away with the results of that fight. If anything a nc for sure. Oh well Bones will get an even better apponent next time.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

LivingDedMan said:


> Those elbows shouldn't be illegal. What's the difference between dropping elbows from 12 to 6 compare to throwing elbows from your back to the top of someone's head from 3 to 9? That's what was happening in the fight right after Jones' and those are allowed. It's not like gravity is adding any power to the elbows when they are coming down instead of sideways.


Its a lot more dangerous coming down ala spiking compared to 3-9 elbows. Spiking from the mount is the worst- you can generate too much force. Thats 1 rule I agree with except the UFC doesnt seem to clarify what elbows from what angles positions etc, are exceptable. As far as people saying BS, thats ridiculous, Jones knew what he was doing if he would have foot stomped his head or kneed his face I guess that would be ok too. Face it Jones is only on his way up the ladder after his awesome performance last night but he does need to control himself. Baiting the ref was cheap and those elbows were blatant..


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

M_D said:


> because he lost, he showed inexperience in the ring and the rules you must follow while inside them he should not be rewarded for this. he did do a good fight and has the skills to move up but he should not for this could be looked down upon by lots of people that a guy would move up the leaderboards even though his last fight he won by illegal blows to an opponent


Man no way is he gonna get a step down in competition for his next fight. Yah he lost and I do agree with the decision illegal blows like that require a DQ and he should have known that, but Dana watched the fight and he knows it was a dominant performance by Jon Jones no doubt about it. He is definetly going to be fighting toughter competition next and you know he is going to be asking for it.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

_Exactly! And now his record isn't important anymore, he can take on top ten fighters in the LHW devision 
Finally :thumbsup:_


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## Godzuki (Feb 26, 2007)

I would have been pissed off if he hadn't been DQ'd TBH. Hamill was being dominated for sure, but he was doing a good job at defending himself. The fact that Jones kept looking at the referee to stop the fight when Hamill was clearly okay, indicates to me that he was getting tired and was worried that Hamill was still in the fight. IMO his inexperience caused him to panick which resulted in the illegal elbows. I also think there were more like 4 or 5 illegal elbows one hitting Hamill square on the bridge of the nose, rather than the 1 or 2 glancing blows some people on here are suggesting.

If there hadn't been any fouls then Jones would probably have still won. However, Hamill is a tough SOB and nobody can say for sure that he couldn't have got back in the fight. All of this is redundant though as the rules are very clear. If you finish your opponent with an illegal strike then you're DQ'd. Period.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Im really surprised so many people think it should have been a no contest, there is abosolutly no excuse to step into a cage which is already a dangerous environment without knowing the rules, it is completely inexcusable and to be honest a NC does not make a suiting punishment, Hammill may not have deserved the win but Jones definatly deserves the loss which even that is not a strong enough punishment IMO for being so careless. Jones showed alot like Rumble did in his fight with Kos (knee to the head of a clearly downed Kos) that these young guys are not taking the rules seriously enough and the punishments IMO are gonna have to get stricter to make sure fighters have no excuses.


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## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

I really feel the fight was already over, should have been stopped way before it.

And unless he dislocated his shoulder, which I am assuming why he didn't continue the fight, because of the elbows then I can't see how he can be DQ'd.

I'm not arguing against the moves being illegal, the rules clearly state they are for whatever their daft reason, but they did not seem to me to be why the fight was finished, a point should of been taken away if Matt continued the fight but Matt couldn't continue because of his shoulder which had nothing to do with the elbows. If the fight was finished as a direct result of the elbows then I would have no quarrel witht his decision.

Either way rally impressed with Bones, awesome display of talent.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

LivingDedMan said:


> Those elbows shouldn't be illegal. What's the difference between dropping elbows from 12 to 6 compare to throwing elbows from your back to the top of someone's head from 3 to 9? That's what was happening in the fight right after Jones' and those are allowed. It's not like gravity is adding any power to the elbows when they are coming down instead of sideways.


Well going with gravity is easier than fighting against it, and downward elbows have little chance of glancing off so they're likely to due serious damage. Plus they're hard to block.



Toxic said:


> Im really surprised so many people think it should have been a no contest, there is abosolutly no excuse to step into a cage which is already a dangerous environment without knowing the rules, it is completely inexcusable and to be honest a NC does not make a suiting punishment, Hammill may not have deserved the win but Jones definatly deserves the loss which even that is not a strong enough punishment IMO for being so careless. Jones showed alot like Rumble did in his fight with Kos (knee to the head of a clearly downed Kos) that these young guys are not taking the rules seriously enough and the punishments IMO are gonna have to get stricter to make sure fighters have no excuses.



Yeah agreed and no kidding. And to everyone thinking it should have been stopped earlier, give me a break, Hamill was defending himself extremely intelligently and Jones was getting frustrated/gassed, then he went for the two illegal elbows and it laid Hamill out. As clear cut as Silva's DQ loss or Rumble's if Kos hadn't blocked a lot of that blow.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

no, you are wrong... the elbows didnt finish him and cause him to say he wouldnt continue, the dislocated shoulder did... get the facts straight.

That's why after the fight MH only talked about his shoulder, not the elbows making him unable to continue.... Mazz f'd up on so many levels it's a joke and im sorry if you think staying mounted and taking punishment and just covering up and not tryin to get out of the position is "intelligently defending yourself" but in my eyes its a recipe to get serious damage, if you are mounted for an extended period and all you are doing is covering up the fight needs to be stopped. MH says the reason was he was defending with one arm... so even in his own mind he knew he was in deep trouble and not getting out of that position... so i dont know how his fanboys can say he had a shot in hell when he realized himself he didnt.

lol @ jones getting frustrated and gassed.... he was dominating and imposing his will the entire fight and was in a comfort zone. MH was the one wanting to give up ASAP and it had nothing to do with the elbows.

I guess a guy flaying around mounted defending with one arm, doing nothing but covering up and taking punishment is intelligent as hell.


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## bedcommando (Oct 16, 2006)

jones dominated the fight. hamlin was still defending and trying to improve (grabs for the head, hands still up etc...). you could see jones getting frustrated when he kept turning to the ref for a stoppage even goldie or rogan commented your not gonna get a trick stoppage with that.

its just funny how many people are quick to critize the refs when they themselves don't even know the rules :confused02:


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> Yeah agreed and no kidding. And to everyone thinking it should have been stopped earlier, give me a break, Hamill was defending himself extremely intelligently and Jones was getting frustrated/gassed, then he went for the two illegal elbows and it laid Hamill out. As clear cut as Silva's DQ loss or Rumble's if Kos hadn't blocked a lot of that blow.


This. :thumbsup:


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

to make the situation even more Mazz comical is that MH is deaf and all Steve asked him was "can you continue??".... im not entirely sure MH knew Steve was asking about the elbows and not something else or if he even had any idea what was going on at the time. I think he thought he was throwing in the towel because of his shoulder. Pretty Epic


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## DanTheJu (Mar 3, 2007)

At the end of the match, after Matt said he couldnt continue, Mazz whent to the replay and found the elbows to have caused damage enough to warrent a DQ... Pretty simple!


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