# Would guard work in real fight?



## light (Feb 13, 2007)

Here's a question how much of MMA would work in a real no rules fight with equal caliber fighters. These are my thoughts:

* The guard position allows knees to the groin and eye gouges and possibly breaking joints and therefore would not be effective in a real 1x1 no rules fight. 

* Punching to the throat would be most effective strike?

* Most current subs would become pointless because the fighter could try to break single toe or finger digits

What do you think? what in MMA world would work for self defense? Also judo throws and wrestling slams would be devasting on hard ground.


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## baz00ca (Nov 22, 2006)

if its just 1 on 1 I think Royce Gracie has already proven the guard is very effective in no holds barred fights.

most effective MMA discipline in a real fight would probably be Muay Thai since real fights hardly ever hit the ground


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## mma1357 (Sep 24, 2006)

Both of you couldn't be more wrong. light - UFC 1, 2, 3, 4, etc basically had no rules and Brazilian JiuJitsu dominated.

Baz - If I remember correctly, according to the police department, 97% of street fights end up on the ground.


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## light (Feb 13, 2007)

No, I'm pretty sure the first ufc's has a few rules like no eye gouging and stuff. Double check!! I'm virtually positive that things like hair pulling were never allowed.


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## TheSuplexor (Jun 2, 2006)

baz00ca said:


> if its just 1 on 1 I think Royce Gracie has already proven the guard is very effective in no holds barred fights.
> 
> most effective MMA discipline in a real fight would probably be Muay Thai since real fights hardly ever hit the ground


royce gracie also proved most fights end up on the ground, buddy.
and light ball tapping and hair pulling was once allowed


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## Foon (Jan 6, 2007)

I wouldn't like to be in guard in a street fight, i'd look for a sweep straight away.


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## LoyaltyAboveAll (Sep 27, 2006)

I got in a fight in san diego at my buddy house.....some guy hit on my friends girlfriend and wouldnt leave her alone so i knocked him across the face and he fell into me and landed in my guard. Hurt like hell cuz we were on concrete, but anyways, i held his right arm with my left hand and just went to town on elbowing and punchin his head. within like 30 seconds he was out. the guy was pretty big and was a wrestler so i just did my best holding and hittin. I think it worked pretty well, but with anything more than 1 on 1 your out of luck....I think street fights are way different than MMA , but some moves work quite well in some situations.


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## KillerG (Nov 14, 2006)

light ball tapping, i remember some full on punches to the balls. It was more or less no rules apart from the eyes.

Guard is a bad move if there is more than one guy, it leaves you prone to his friend kicking you in the head. Submissions are fine, if someone has you in the position to break a bone etc you just say anything to stop it hurting anyway, so he'd be your little b1tch etc and look like a fool


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## MMA1990 (Aug 1, 2006)

baz00ca said:


> if its just 1 on 1 I think Royce Gracie has already proven the guard is very effective in no holds barred fights.
> 
> most effective MMA discipline in a real fight would probably be Muay Thai since real fights hardly ever hit the ground


WOW hold on a second...Did you just say real figth never hit the ground? I could have sworn it was the other way around. Over 80% of street fights wind up on the ground.This is a well known fact.


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## Foon (Jan 6, 2007)

I'm not gonna' risk being in guard, and getting knee'd in the balls.


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## baz00ca (Nov 22, 2006)

hey now! i'm sorry i don't have crazy police facts to go on, stop attacking me  Now with the facts I can rethink my original statement that fight hardly ever hit the ground and think of a new discipline that would be better suited...and I have come up with Commando *****!

as for you MMA1357, i'm not sure how I was wrong in my first statement in saying that Royce basically proved that the guard was effective. You just repeated the exact same thing i did with different wording after saying I was wrong...


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## Foon (Jan 6, 2007)

BJJ Boy said:


> NOOOOO Closed guard in a street fight is the most stupidest thing ever, it oepns youre head, torso and genitals. For street you use street guard somthing like spider guard.


I don't know if that would work either, I would much rather scramble back to my feet, get a throw and run. You shouldn't really go down on your back in a street fight, especially since headbutts are legal on the street!


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## herton17 (Sep 13, 2006)

BJJ Boy said:


> I agree with you, but i was just saying, if he wants to use a guard, he better use street guard, especialy when the other guy doesnt know bjj, you can easily get a triangle from thier.


Yes....and in a street fight I am going to let you pull a guard-traingle. Have it. And I will bite off your balls.


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## Foon (Jan 6, 2007)

BJJ Boy said:


> I agree with you, but i was just saying, if he wants to use a guard, he better use street guard, especialy when the other guy doesnt know bjj, you can easily get a triangle from thier.


Yeah, I would think the guy you've got in Spider Guard would be very confused aswell. I don't know, street fights are just pretty crazy stuff. I'd rather just bang (even though i'm a grappling king like Roger Gracie  )


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## Mr. Bungle (Oct 17, 2006)

*sorry if this is a little off topic*

I used to think that BJJ was not a very practical discipline for self defense or for use in a street fight until I saw it with my own eyes.

I was having drinks with some friends at a pub when some scumbag tried to run out on his bill. When the waitress confronted him he smacked her and ran outside. A bystander approached him and the piece of shit started swinging. The bystander rushed him, took him down, had him in an arm bar in the blink of an eye and held him there begging for mercy until the police came. It was pretty impressive since the shit disturber was a pretty mean looking, beefy guy who looked like he could F-shit up...the bystander just looked like your average joe. 

That incident completely changed my view of BJJ's effectiveness in a fight. We invited the guy and his girlfriend to sit down for drink and I asked him how long he'd been studying and he said about 8 months. I asked him what he would have done if there would have been multiple guys and he said that he would have snapped the guys arm as quickly as possible and gotten himself ready for the next guy.

My first love will always be May Thai but now I take BJJ once a week. It's wickedly effective shit.


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

concidering most fights go to the ground since your average jerk isn't a trained boxer, and concidering that BJJ was designed basiclly how it is today on the streets of Brazil--the most notoriosly dangerous place to grow up in the world--it's probably not a bad idea in a fight!


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## Unseen (Dec 25, 2006)

there are some rules to street fights were Im from only if you belong to social groups.... no biting, no hair pulling, no low blows... unless the person wants to be known as a "*****". I dont think the same applys to homeless guys and old people.


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## Unseen (Dec 25, 2006)

I wouldnt hesitate to pull guard in a street fight as long as Im not too drunk to execute a submission, except I would break everytime.


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## bob (Jul 14, 2006)

don't know how effective guard would be, but BJJ could be very effective. if you are trained in the ground and taking people down, then you can preety much dominate(assuming the other person doesn't have any training).


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## KillerG (Nov 14, 2006)

BJJ would work ok in the street against someone with no BJJ/ground experience. As long as you went for a submission straight away, and broke/damaged them. As for doing it to limit damage, or against someone or near equal skill, his mates will just kick you in the head.

But as from the prior story, he'd snap the arm and get up asap, usually when his mate has his arm dangling loosly from being severly broken, his mates will run, they'll think your Bruce bloody Lee


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## BJJ Boy (Jan 21, 2007)

herton17 said:


> Yes....and in a street fight I am going to let you pull a guard-traingle. Have it. And I will bite off your balls.



Lmao, youre totaly write, but im choiking you out, the last thing youre gonna think of is biting, plus, ill be elbowing you in the head while im choking you.


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## dutch sauce (Sep 24, 2006)

i just learned muay thai today for he first time i got taught and its pretty intense if someone knows that stuff they could own in a street fight


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## EC_Raider_07 (May 10, 2006)

I'd take GnP in a street fight before BJJ anyday.


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## kwylogb (Oct 25, 2006)

light said:


> No, I'm pretty sure the first ufc's has a few rules like no eye gouging and stuff. Double check!! I'm virtually positive that things like hair pulling were never allowed.


Did you see the Hackeny vs. Joeson in one of the first UFC's? Hackney hit him probably 10 times directly in the groin. Also, Royce vs Kimbo - Royce kept a hold of Kimbo's hair for a good part of the match.


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## You Are a Clown (Aug 29, 2006)

it would all depend on the situation you will never know until the fight happens and its never that bad of a decision to get gaurd if youre experienced in bjj


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## moldy (May 6, 2006)

BJJ Boy said:


> NOOOOO Closed guard in a street fight is the most stupidest thing ever, it oepns youre head, torso and genitals. For street you use street guard somthing like spider guard.


if your getting knee'd in the genitals your gaurd sucks.


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## SupremeTapout (Feb 1, 2007)

without a doubt... all i need to say


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## BJJ Boy (Jan 21, 2007)

moldy said:


> if your getting knee'd in the genitals your gaurd sucks.



Thats the thing with spider guard, it keeps you off balance, if you lift youre knee up youll fall and ill mount you.


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## moldy (May 6, 2006)

gaurd works good one on one. But in a two on one while you've got my friend in your gaurd ill stomp on your head. But one on one why wouldn't it work. If it wasn't effective guys would get owned in the ufc. Your gaurd if done right should protect your balls unless it's super loose and sloppy then you shouldn't even be using it.


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## BJJ Boy (Jan 21, 2007)

moldy said:


> gaurd works good one on one. But in a two on one while you've got my friend in your gaurd ill stomp on your head. But one on one why wouldn't it work. If it wasn't effective guys would get owned in the ufc. Your gaurd if done right should protect your balls unless it's super loose and sloppy then you shouldn't even be using it.




No its doesnt, guard is the dumbest thing you can do on the street, you can get hit every where except the back, plus if the guy is a beast on punch is enought to take you out, and the guard lets him take like 25 puynches before you can stop him.


Thats the closed guard.... Spider and butterfly guard are different stories, they make it so youre openent cant use his arms.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

I've never done BJJ so I don't know if pulling guard would be effective in a street fight....BUT I do know a lot of different armbars and wrist bars and I can honestly say that those are the most effective. There's nothing more satisfying than having your "opponents" arm or wrist locked up knowing you can break it anytime. At that point you can pretty much make them do whatever you want and tell them if they don't you'll just break their bone (whichever one it is).  That's not BJJ though, that's Aikido and Judo


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

I would only use the guard in a street fight if the dude had taken me down and I had no other choice. Then lock him up and roll him. then g&p all the way!


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## Nosbig (Aug 19, 2006)

moldy said:


> if your getting knee'd in the genitals your gaurd sucks.


Exactly, if you have a tight guard there should be no way that their knees can reach your nuts. And as for exposing everything but your back when you go into guard you can defend your face and body with your hands or tie up their hands and arms. If the fight goes to the ground what are you going to do? You cant go to your stomach because then you can't defend yourself. Your best bet would be to scramble and get up quick or put them in guard. If your on cement or asphalt being on bottom isn't a good idea, but if your on grass or carpet their shouldn't be a problem.


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## EC_Raider_07 (May 10, 2006)

BJJ Boy said:


> No its doesnt, guard is the dumbest thing you can do on the street, you can get hit every where except the back, plus if the guy is a beast on punch is enought to take you out, and the guard lets him take like 25 puynches before you can stop him.


No, no, NO. Punching power comes from legs, hips, and torso. NOT the arms. Unless your guard is TERRIBLE, you should never get KO'd w/ someone in your guard. I'd put someone in my guard because it'll be easy for me to armbar or it's really easy for me to take the back/sweep for a mount from guard.


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## BJJ Boy (Jan 21, 2007)

EC_Raider_07 said:


> No, no, NO. Punching power comes from legs, hips, and torso. NOT the arms. Unless your guard is TERRIBLE, you should never get KO'd w/ someone in your guard. I'd put someone in my guard because it'll be easy for me to armbar or it's really easy for me to take the back/sweep for a mount from guard.



Then youre a retard. One shot to the groyend and youll be seeing 5 of him, if you put me in youre closed guard inrip youre testicals out in a street fight. Then id pass and pucnh youre face into the ground, guard is terrible for street.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

I'm sorry but all this talk about guard being terrible for street fights....Am I crazy or did Royce effectively pull and use guard in every single fight he was in during the earliest UFCs against street fighters much bigger than him and he won everytime.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I wouldn't even attempt a guard in a street fight. In a streetfight, anything goes, and your "opponent" would do anything to save face. If that means gouging your eyes, kicking your nuts, pulling your hair, or using a weapon, then he'll do it. Your best bet? Don't even get involved. Walk away, and be a better man.


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## BJJ Boy (Jan 21, 2007)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> I'm sorry but all this talk about guard being terrible for street fights....Am I crazy or did Royce effectively pull and use guard in every single fight he was in during the earliest UFCs against street fighters much bigger than him and he won everytime.



Royce is 1 of millions, im pretty sure 99.99% of us dont even have 1/5th of his talent.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

BJJ Boy said:


> Royce is 1 of millions, im pretty sure 99.99% of us dont even have 1/5th of his talent.


I know but it doesn't take a BJJ MASTER to put your legs up like a woman having a child. Everytime they were in his guard they were pretty much neutralized, even with all the leniant street fight rules. Royce's submissions are better than 99.99% of people but his guard? I'm not a BJJ guy but I'm pretty sure pulling guard wouldn't take much talent at all. I'm just asking anyway not trying to argue just so you know.


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## BJJ Boy (Jan 21, 2007)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> I know but it doesn't take a BJJ MASTER to put your legs up like a woman having a child. Everytime they were in his guard they were pretty much neutralized, even with all the leniant street fight rules. Royce's submissions are better than 99.99% of people but his guard? I'm not a BJJ guy but I'm pretty sure pulling guard wouldn't take much talent at all. I'm just asking anyway not trying to argue just so you know.



Putting a guard on isnt the problem, the problem is sumbiting him while hes poking youre eye pulling youre hair and twist youre balls in circles.


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## herton17 (Sep 13, 2006)

I hate to say it...but Royce is not as good of a BJJ practicioner as many of the other Gracie family members as well as a whole lot of other BJJ masters/students. 
He just came to the states at the right time to defeat uneducated fools with absolutely no submission fighting knowledge. He has one submission win in the last 12 years and it was a frikkin wrist lock.

I hate to go off on Royce...he is a legend, but I wanted to say that there is plenty of ppl out there that have more BJJ 'talent' and ability than he's ever had.


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## BJJ Boy (Jan 21, 2007)

herton17 said:


> I hate to say it...but Royce is not as good of a BJJ practicioner as many of the other Gracie family members as well as a whole lot of other BJJ masters/students.
> He just came to the states at the right time to defeat uneducated fools with absolutely no submission fighting knowledge. He has one submission win in the last 12 years and it was a frikkin wrist lock.
> 
> I hate to go off on Royce...he is a legend, but I wanted to say that there is plenty of ppl out there that have more BJJ 'talent' and ability than he's ever had.



Sto me praviche bodalla?


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

herton17 said:


> I hate to say it...but Royce is not as good of a BJJ practicioner as many of the other Gracie family members as well as a whole lot of other BJJ masters/students.
> He just came to the states at the right time to defeat uneducated fools with absolutely no submission fighting knowledge. He has one submission win in the last 12 years and it was a frikkin wrist lock.
> 
> I hate to go off on Royce...he is a legend, but I wanted to say that there is plenty of ppl out there that have more BJJ 'talent' and ability than he's ever had.


I agree and I never even noticed he hasn't had a submission in 12 years. I always thought he got too much credit in comparison to his bros and cousins. Renzo is my favorite...well actually I should say he is about the only one I like.


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## herton17 (Sep 13, 2006)

I already posted this a while ago, but I think it was either Helio or Rickson who said that Royce didnt win a tournament in his life until he came to the states.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Royce's technique was pretty pedestrian. Still, he gets a free pass for what he has accomplished. This is coming from someone who doesn't care much for Royce, either.


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## EC_Raider_07 (May 10, 2006)

BJJ Boy said:


> Then youre a retard. One shot to the groyend and youll be seeing 5 of him, if you put me in youre closed guard inrip youre testicals out in a street fight. Then id pass and pucnh youre face into the ground, guard is terrible for street.


Well, I'm going to have to go out on a limb and say you're pretty closed minded and don't understand fighting at all. You never seem to really understand anything anyone tries to explain to you, and instead pull the "Nuh uh, I'm right poo poo head!" card. I'm also going to have to go out on a limb and say you have either never or are rarely in this position.

Also, as you'll learn when you finally start your stand up training, arm punches are bad. No, you won't KO w/ me an arm punch, for a few reasons. One, I'm smart and know where to NOT let you punch me, and how you keep you from doing so. Two, I can control your body from my guard, and I know what's going to do damage to you.

Sorry bro, you're 13. You have like 1 year of BJJ experience. You just haven't gone through the proccess of street fighting (which I'll tell you now, is a bad thing. I'm suprised I'm not dead...) Anyways, good luck. And I hope one day you'll open your eyes, and drop the jr High attitude.


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## w30 (Feb 18, 2007)

Running off of EC Raiders quote.

Your ball gripping would hurt those who have never been in the streets of major cities. You wouldn't get close enough to hit someone let alone grab the balls.

Consider the science, you're talking a controlled environment vs and uncontrolled environment.

Guard will rarely save you - however something you should know is if there are no objects to make due with, GaP (Ground and Pound) becomes a viable option - for a Street Fighter.

The best way for Controlled Fighters to win in an Uncontrolled Environment is to Strike while standing or to use clinch/heavy tossing.

Grappling in a street fight means you're forfeiting distance, that distance can save you from a knife or gun that hasn't yet been noticed.


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## herton17 (Sep 13, 2006)

LOL @ GaP (Ground and Pound)


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## Umbravo (Feb 13, 2007)

Zulu fought against Hickson..he was scratching biting eye gouging andHickson still was able to play guard....

you just have to be real good at it.


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## Unseen (Dec 25, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> I know but it doesn't take a BJJ MASTER to put your legs up like a woman having a child. I'm not a BJJ guy but I'm pretty sure pulling guard wouldn't take much talent at all.


LMFAO


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## w30 (Feb 18, 2007)

herton17 said:


> LOL @ GaP (Ground and Pound)


They're stupid like that. 

Staying on your feet = key.


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## Unseen (Dec 25, 2006)

If I had to resort to going to the ground in a street fight and the other guy happened to get the advantage of being on top, I would pull guard and if the guy has no experience with ground fighting... I would definately go for a submission, but I wouldnt let go after the dude had to call me the man... I would break his arm.


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## w30 (Feb 18, 2007)

No rules means street fight or NHB.

Only two options become viable for people, a knife or bang bang.


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## Unseen (Dec 25, 2006)

Assuming that the person, for some reason, isnt carrying their weapon that day and have to go at it caveman style... I believe I could pull off a submission or bide time in the guard. 

I would much rather stay on the feet or, even better, mount the guy and initiate Ground n' Pound, but if all else fells and the guy wants to try to stick fight me then Im gonna find a club of my own, or another object that will do some damage.


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