# ***OFFICIAL*** Chuck Liddell VS Mauricio Rua Pre/Post Fight Discussion Thread



## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

*Please conduct ALL of your discussion in regards to Chuck "The Iceman" Liddell facing Mauricio "Shogun" Rua in this thread. All threads made in regards to this fight will be merged into this one.*


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## GodlyMoose (May 20, 2007)

I had a very vivid and detailed dream last night of Shogun winning in dominating fashion. I take this as an omen of what's to come.


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## georgie17891 (Dec 21, 2008)

no lidell by ud or tko ko round 3


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## Tyson2011 (Jan 12, 2009)

as much as i want liddell to win, i think shogun is going to take it


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## e-thug (Jan 18, 2007)

GodlyMoose said:


> I had a very vivid and detailed dream last night of Shogun winning in dominating fashion. I take this as an omen of what's to come.


I think your out of ya mind, win maybe, dominating never.


On that note, WAR ICEMAN!


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## Evil Ira (Feb 9, 2009)

I'd say Shogun might win, but this will be so close, I'm not gonna bet on it.


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

This is a hard fight to pick for. A couple of years ago, I would have said Liddell hands down. I still say Liddell takes it..but not hands down.


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## Josh Jones III (Mar 20, 2009)

If Rua is remotely in shape, I say he kills Lidell. Shogun is just a younger version of Chuck -- great striking, underrated ground game (though their styles are obviously different). Liddell has lost speed/reaction time and he'll get caught just like he did against Rampage and Evans -- except Shogun is a better striker than those two guys. That doesn't bode well.


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## tecnotut (Jan 2, 2007)

Chuck has better cardio, but Rua is more well-rounded. I think people are writing Rua off too quickly. There won't be much grappling in this fight, so I don't think Rua's cardio (or lack thereof) will play a role.


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Josh Jones III said:


> If Rua is remotely in shape, I say he kills Lidell. Shogun is just a younger version of Chuck -- great striking, underrated ground game (though their styles are obviously different). Liddell has lost speed/reaction time and he'll get caught just like he did against Rampage and Evans -- except Shogun is a better striker than those two guys. That doesn't bode well.


My friend Liddell and Rua could not be much more different from each other as fighters.

Liddell is a counter puncher who kickboxes.
Shogun runs forward swinging and throwing what some people for some reason call his Muay Thai skills (or lack their of)

Liddell is a wrestler who likes to sprawl and brawl.
Shogun is a BJJ practicioner that is allways willing to go to the grown and show his skills.

Liddell throws devastating overhand rights and sometimes fabulous kicks.

Shogun throws sloppy jabs and powerful knees.

Shogun and Liddell are nothing alike other than the fact that neither have looked on par lately.

The main difference is Liddell has and always will be a bad match up for Shogun on paper and has looked bad against TOP competition.

Shogun has allways been the perfect opponent to get KO'ed by Chucks style of fighting and has looked HORRIBLE against Mark Coleman. Forrest is a game fighter but the old shogun should have rolled through him.

Chuck win's via TKO ref stoppage in the second while Chuck riengs down bombs from a standing position just like he did on Tito.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Everything EmericanAddict said about Chuck and Shogun being alike +1.

Except I am going with Shogun in this fight. Via Murder.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

Chuck Liddell by flying heel hook.

But seriously Liddell will win.


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

If Shogun brings the game he brought in his last fight against Coleman, Liddell will demolish him, no question.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

*Liddell vs Shogun UFC 97 fight breakdown with Joe Rogan*


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Nothing new, but good to hear from Joe.

I agree on pretty much everything.


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## T.Bone (Oct 15, 2008)

Indestructibl3 said:


> If Shogun brings the game he brought in his last fight against Coleman, Liddell will demolish him, no question.


As much as I don't want to, I agree, Shogun has just looked plain sloppy lately and although neither look as dominant as they used to, Chuck has given me more reason to believe he can pull of the win here. I'll be pulling for shogun all the way though.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

I could listen to Rogan talk for an hour. Guys always has somthing interesting to say evn if I have heard it already. If that makes any sense.


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## Josh Jones III (Mar 20, 2009)

Well, I guess you can call Liddell a wrestler (what's his background? Greco-Roman?) but he's still a striker to me (Koei-Kan karate). Not that his wrestling isn't important -- his sprawl is unbelievable -- but here's a guy with knockouts in 14 of his 21 wins. He's not exactly Gray Maynard, is he? You're right about the counterpunching, though.

I say Rua will be losing the fight until he floors Liddell in the third.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

I can't really see Shogun knocking him out or subbing him in the third. His cardio hasn't been good and I think that will be one edge Liddell has over Rua; the last round, if it goes that far.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

I don't see Chuck KO'ing Shogun, dude has a solid chin. Chuck's taking it via UD.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

I have Chuck winning but I wouldn't be to surprised if Shogun got him. This fight has the potential to be fight of the year easily. Both have good chins and strike with unique styles that sometimes isn't technical, (excluding shogun's thai clinch which is technical as hell) this fight will be great.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

I'll be honest, logically just basing this off past performances, I would say Chuck takes this via KOing(not a clean KO) a gassed sloppy Rua in the second.

However, I am confident Rua will come in well prepared, get Chuck to the ground and beat him there. Oh god I am nervous for this fight.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Here is a snip that I picked up on mma mania today.

Quote from Shogun.



> When I fought (Mark) Coleman, like it or not I stayed almost a year and a half on the sidelines and that took a lot out of my training and conditioning. I can say that right now I’m feeling much more prepared physically and psychologically for this fight against Chuck (Liddell). Sometimes when we’re at home we get a little distracted and don’t push ourselves to the limit. So I think moving to a new place to train got me 100 percent focused on the fight and I can tell that I feel much more prepared and in condition for this fight.”


Source...http://mmamania.com/2009/04/07/maur...ect-a-different-shogun-at-ufc-97-on-april-18/

We'll have to see about that.


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

mark it down ...rua gases in the late stages of round two , chuck lands a hard counterpunch and a stunned rua hits the mat with chuck raining down punches from the standing position , ref stoppage , late 2nd round ko for chuck .:thumb02:


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

duncanjr said:


> mark it down ...rua gases in the late stages of round two , chuck lands a hard counterpunch and a stunned rua hits the mat with chuck raining down punches from the standing position , ref stoppage , late 2nd round ko for chuck .:thumb02:


Don't you mean mark OUR words i said pretty much the exact same thing on page 1 lol. Standing position and everythang. Hahaha:thumb02:


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## Josh Jones III (Mar 20, 2009)

I still think Rua isn't getting enough respect...he's clearly getting himself into better shape, as it was no secret that he was sloppy as hell against Coleman. If we can call see that he needed to improve his cardio, why wouldn't he/his trainers realize that too? Also, Liddell is 39...

I'm going to bet on the UFC 97 odds and win big since Rua is the underdog...


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Josh Jones III said:


> I still think Rua isn't getting enough respect...he's clearly getting himself into better shape, as it was no secret that he was sloppy as hell against Coleman. If we can call see that he needed to improve his cardio, why wouldn't he/his trainers realize that too? Also, Liddell is 39...


How is it clear he is getting hiself in shape? Before the Colemn fight he said the exact same stuff he said before this one.

And he didn't get his cardio in shaoe for Coleman when it was clearly a problem.


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## Organik (Aug 28, 2006)

my signature shows who im rooting for, although i feel he will win, this is prolly the most dangerous fight for shogun out there

bad style match up


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## IndependentMOFO (Feb 23, 2009)

Stylistically, Shogun is asking to get knocked out. But I really think Shogun will fight a more reserved, gameplan based fight so he doesn't walk right into an overhand right from Chuck.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)




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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Nice vid J.P. plus rep for you and Chuck for the win hehehe.


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## GodlyMoose (May 20, 2007)

J.P. said:


>


I've always wondered, why does the UFC never use clips of Shogun from PRIDE when he's whomping on Rampage, Arona, Overeem, etc?


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

I just don't see Rua doing anything of value to Chuck. I'm picking Chuck by TKO late 2nd round.


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## Suizida (Feb 29, 2008)

I just want Chuck to win, but with an impressive performance from Shogun and Chuck. I would love to see them both in their primes giving it their all, cause i would see Chuck winning it due to the styles.

Both of them seem to be taking their training very seriously, with Chuck at ATT and Rua going back to Brzil and not at UDL.....

I guess i would like to see a Chuck TKO, and then fight Forrest.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Chuck will smash Shogun. It will be all chuck I predict he will tko his ass


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I got Liddell, but wouldn't be shocked if Shogun ends up KO'ing him. Chuck is chinny as hell nowadays, while Rua does have a beard on him.

Still, stylistic wise, Chuck takes this.


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## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

Liddel tko early round 2.

Hoping Liddel has taken time to fix the holes in his game.


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## T.Bone (Oct 15, 2008)

Blitzz said:


> Liddel tko early round 2.
> 
> Hoping Liddel has taken time to fix the holes in his game.


I agree about Chuck taking the win. On the flip-side however, I hope Shogun's taken time to get in shape and get sharp.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Damone said:


> I got Liddell, but wouldn't be shocked if Shogun ends up KO'ing him. Chuck is chinny as hell nowadays, while Rua does have a beard on him.
> 
> Still, stylistic wise, Chuck takes this.


I agree with this. What happened to the Chuck that could absorb punches and end up coming back with a highlight reel knock out? These days, he can't get passed the absorbing part that well.

Either way, I'd like to think that Shogun doesn't have the stand up to do such a thing. I'm picking Chuck by decision.


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

I'm still saying Shogun's best chance is to take it to the ground. I don't see him getting a KO.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

*Shogun looked READY on UFC 97 Countdown!!*

Ima Shogun nuthugger but I was thrilled to seee how he looked and what he was doing for training. He looked to be back in his old form and I am so excited.

Was it just me, cuz I am am Shogun fan? Or was anyone else really impressed with what you say from Shogun on Countdown!

Im on board, Shogun is going to beat CHuk in a very exciting fight by Unanimous Decision. YEAAAAAAA Heessss's back. I feel it in my bones. :thumbsup:


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

YA HE LOOKED SOOOO GOOD!!!! Chuck wins by KO


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

diablo5597 said:


> YA HE LOOKED SOOOO GOOD!!!! Chuck wins by KO



Here we go, im doing it again FOLKS!!! I will leave this forum for good IF Chuck KO's Shogun. No TKO, but KO's Shogun.

Not happening SHogun is back and is going to beat that old man.


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Here we go, im doing it again FOLKS!!! I will leave this forum for good IF Chuck KO's Shogun. No TKO, but KO's Shogun.
> 
> Not happening SHogun is back and is going to beat that old man.


The fact is if Chuck wins it probably will be by clean KO.
If that were to happen, don't leave... just tone down the huggery.


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## crispsteez (Jul 1, 2008)

damn jdun, nuthugging to the extreme. i'm just hoping we don't have a repeat of the last time you guaranteed something and it didn't come to fruition ala "there's no way koscheck can lose to paulo thiago" or "the only way gsp wins is via boring lay and pray." i'm feeling slightly inclined on taking chuck via KO:thumb02::thumb02:


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## dutch sauce (Sep 24, 2006)

i dont got anything against shogun at all. But he looked just as impressive on the previous countdown before coleman, and everyone was saying the exact same thing...


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

Not only did he look as good for his fight against Coleman, but he also claimed he never trained harder I believe.

In all honesty, you can't determine crap with these shows or by watching someones training. You don't know how determined they are or how in shape they are until it's fight time. I'll let Shogun show me if he's in shape or if he's in fighter form on fight night.


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Jdun I think you should clam it down because honestly I think youve been jinxing shogun in all honesty. Everytime you say something like this he either loses or puts on a terrible performance.

Just bide your time and wait and see with out proclaiming he's back and maybe he will ACTUALLY be back. I just hope he is in good condition for the fight I still want Chuck to win just not over the Shogun who fought Coleman. I WANT A FIGHT DAMNIT!


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## mwhite18 (Feb 3, 2008)

I want Shogun to win as well..he looked good as all fighters should. But that doesnt tell me anything. UFC isn't going to air Shogun having double cheeseburgers and smoking weed with diaz brothers. As a fighter, if I knew cameras are coming I'm going to look my best for them ..unless i was BJ penn on his countdown:happy03:


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## illmatic (Sep 23, 2007)

I didn't see anything overly impressive on shogun. I don't think he'll bring anything new to the table here.


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

mwhite18 said:


> I want Shogun to win as well..he looked good as all fighters should. But that doesnt tell me anything. UFC isn't going to air Shogun having double cheeseburgers and smoking weed with diaz brothers. As a fighter, if I knew cameras are coming I'm going to look my best for them ..unless i was BJ penn on his countdown:happy03:


And even that, remember when there were pictures of BJ making some kind of protein shake with Urijah Faber and everyone went "BJ IS CHANGED AND LOOKS BETTER THAN EVA1!1!" Mercy...


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## Couchwarrior (Jul 13, 2007)

As someone mentioned already, it's impossible to tell from a show like UFC Countdown what shape a fighter is in. But what might matter is the fact that he has got a new conditioning coach.

Stylistically Shogun should be a good matchup for Chuck, because I don't think there's any chance that Chuck won't get Shogun to chase him, unlike Jardine and Evans. But Chuck's getting old and is coming off one of the most brutal KO losses I've ever seen, so I don't know what he's going to look like either.

I'll be rooting for Shogun, but I've got to give the edge to Liddell du to is counter striking vs Shogun's aggressiveness, and because of Shogun's questionable cardio.


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## T.Bone (Oct 15, 2008)

I thought Shogun looked impressive leading upto the Coleman fight... How wrong I was.


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

On second thought I do think he looked ready enough aswell and I really hope he is because I dont want to see Liddell pound a shell of man that is rua but rather a full on war between the two of them both coming in at their best to truly determine who is the more dominant between them.

Rooting for Liddell all the way though and that will never change but that doesnt mean that I want to see Rua's career down the toilet either. I expect nothing but an amazing show from these two.


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## chuck fan (russ) (Nov 13, 2006)

I hope shogun puts in a good performance but i wouldn't put money on it as i see this ending with Liddell being the victor. But i do think if shogun loses this one he will have to start doing some serious training otherwise its game over for his career.


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## NATAS (Jun 30, 2008)

Ill believe it when i see it. The Shogun i saw against Coleman deseves to be thrown under the bus untill he shows us differently.


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## mwhite18 (Feb 3, 2008)

I'm relatively new to MMA. I never watched Pride..just some clips on youtube. What's shogun's chin like? I know he's never been Ko'ed. Ive just seen highlight reels of the bottom of his foot.


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## cabby (Sep 15, 2006)

Sounds nice to hear but he's probably not in the kind of shape he needs to be in. I put points on Chuck but hope Shogun wins. Chuck counter's like a mofo................


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## adobostreak (Apr 8, 2007)

why do a lot of people assume shogun is going to get KO'd? he has never been KO'd correct? and judging by recent performances Chuck's more likely to be KO'd (for a third time)


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## TheBrickhouse (Mar 27, 2008)

New Strength Coach, Top Notch facility, Top fighters to push him not just his brother!

His manager even said he skipped workouts and had no one to push him in his hometown! 

Now he's getting pushed to the max and knows he will get cut if he doesn't put out!

He looked very muscular but really athletic and confident! That strength coach was beating him down!

Team Brasa is a solid team he is ready no excuses now people! Shogun shocks the world just like Serra did! Liddell is too over confident! Shogun via KO head kick!


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## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

TheBrickhouse said:


> New Strength Coach, Top Notch facility, Top fighters to push him not just his brother!
> 
> His manager even said he skipped workouts and had no one to push him in his hometown!
> 
> ...



thats the only way i see shogun winning on the feet is in fact with his feet. 

now if chuck decides to use his wrestling i think that would be a mistake and he'll probably get leg locked. so hopefully thats not the new tricks hacklemen was speaking of.

chuck just needs to sit back, counter punch, and not get kicked in the head.


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## Josh Jones III (Mar 20, 2009)

Chuck is 39 YEARS OLD. He's lost three of four fights, twice by getting cold cocked. He's lost his speed and reaction time. Rua is reportedly in shape, so he'll knock out the old man...


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## Charles Lee Ray (May 4, 2008)

Josh Jones III said:


> Chuck is 39 YEARS OLD. He's lost three of four fights, twice by getting cold cocked. He's lost his speed and reaction time. Rua is reportedly in shape, so he'll knock out the old man...



And Rua barely got by a 44 YEAR OLD man who looked half dead two minutes into the fight.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Here we go, im doing it again FOLKS!!! I will leave this forum for good IF Chuck KO's Shogun. No TKO, but KO's Shogun.
> 
> Not happening SHogun is back and is going to beat that old man.


I also don't think Chuck is going to knock Shogun out. I see Chuck winning a hard fought decision probably.


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

Josh Jones III said:


> Chuck is 39 YEARS OLD. He's lost three of four fights, twice by getting cold cocked. He's lost his speed and reaction time. Rua is reportedly in shape, so he'll knock out the old man...


yeah , getting koed by rampage and evans ....two cans for sure ! why is liddel still fighting since losing to obvious c level fighters like page and evans ...what a washed up loser ..are you for real ? liddels gonna knock shogirls head off .i dont know what i cant wait for more , the fight saterday or the next afternoon when i come on here a watch so many nuthuggers eat crow ! liddel , 2or 3rd round tko /ko . .just watch .:thumbsup:


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

Quick question, when was the last time someone did not look good on the Countdown? I mean ever time we see Wandy on the show we are preparing the funeral arrangements for his opponent. Sorry, not buying the hype, I will wait and see. I hope whoever wins this re-energizes their career and doesn't make this fight their last hurrah.


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## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

I don't see the UFC ever making their fighters look bad before a fight. It doesn't make sense for them to do so in a buisness sense. But they did critize Shogun for looking like hell during the Coleman fight. If he loses in a pathetic display they will cut his ass. It will be a good fight hopefully, because most of Chuck's fights are.


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

TheBrickhouse said:


> Shogun shocks the world just like Serra did! Liddell is too over confident! Shogun via KO head kick!


For the love of god, please don't even compare the shock value to Serra/GSP if Shogun beats Chuck especially on the same card with Leites/Silva. Shogun winning has no shock value what so ever so please don't act as if it would be this gigantic upset. Both fighters have looked like crap...where's the upset come in?


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

If someone keeps winning all the time, people start to think that he's unbeatable, unstoppable, etc. In the meantime, we witness some "rare surprises" in main/co-main events:

UFC 69: Serra vs St.Pierre (unexpected loss)
UFC 70: Cro Cop vs Gonzaga (everybody knows what happened and what was expected to.., via head kick!)
UFC 70: Werdum vs Arlovski (most believed in Werdum that night)
UFC 71: Liddell vs Jackson (Chuck was to avenge his last remaining loss, but he failed miserably)
UFC 75: Cro Cop vs Kongo (an upset)
UFC 76: Shogun vs Griffin (was supposed to be a solid win for Rua)
UFC 76: Liddell vs Jardine (nobody believed in Keith, even Randy Couture!)
UFC 77: Franklin vs Silva (a lot of fans expected a revenge from Franklin)
UFC 79: Liddell vs Silva (people were saying that "there's no way" fight would go to distance, but it did!)
UFC 81: Lesnar vs Mir (still an upset in my opinion)
UFC 86: Jackson vs Griffin (Jackson was a solid favorite)
UFC 87: Lesnar vs Herring (in some way an upset, wouldn't you say?)
UFC 88: Liddell vs Evans (KO from Rashad surprised many)
UFC 89: Werdum vs Dos Santos (devastating KO, WTF?)
UFC 92: Jackson vs Silva (huge upset for Silva's fans, but not for me)
UFC 92: Nogueira vs Mir (another underdog re-emerges)
UFC 93: Shogun vs Coleman (pathetic performance from young superstar, huge upset)
UFC 96: Carwin vs Gonzaga (wasn't supposed to happen, but Carwin earned another first round KO over a very solid UFC veteran and former #1 contender).

How can somebody still be sure of anything in UFC nowadays? It's not done until it's done. Shogun has as many chances as Chuck does. Countdown show never provides anybody with any answers, because it's not meant to. However, I think Shogun will win, but it's pure speculation, nothing substantial.


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## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

I am going to need a change of pants if Shogun KO's Chuck! I hope he does.


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Here we go, im doing it again FOLKS!!! I will leave this forum for good IF Chuck KO's Shogun. No TKO, but KO's Shogun.
> 
> Not happening SHogun is back and is going to beat that old man.


Dude, you really need to learn not to make this stupid ass bets. Especially when you did not follow through with it last time.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Here we go, im doing it again FOLKS!!! I will leave this forum for good IF Chuck KO's Shogun. No TKO, but KO's Shogun.
> 
> Not happening SHogun is back and is going to beat that old man.


Who are you trying to kid? If your boy loses all your going to do is bout for a couple of weeks and be back here just in time for Evans vs. Machida!

Even with good cardio Chuck is still a bad match-up for Shogun. Shogun will never take him down and I really don't see him outstriking Chuck. Chuck via KO in the first!


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## GodlyMoose (May 20, 2007)

Alright here's how my dream went. They first started feeling each other out for like 10 seconds until Shogun comes up and starts pressuring him. He is just kinda moving forward at at Liddell throwing a lot of punches and few kicks. Liddell is throwing few punches while moving back while never hitting, Shogun not landing anything either except coming forward.

I then see him back Liddell into the cage and they start teeing off on each other, mostly missing, but both landing bombs on each other. I see Shogun move back and rock Liddell with a high kick. Notice, not knocked out, or drop him. But rocked. I see Shogun instantly coming throwing about 2-3 punches, while Liddell defends them kinda. Then Shogun comes forward with what looks likes a looping right, but as he steps forward puts his foot behind Liddells left foot, and his right hand comes over a little to the right of Liddell's shoulder.

He then grabs under his arm, and his left arm does the same to Liddell's right arm and gets a nice double under hook inside trip and Liddell down. He is almost already mounted when he trips him, he then takes full mount and proceeds to pounds on Liddell's face, until Yves Lavigne comes in and stops it. Shogun by tko in 3-4 minutes in round 1. This is how my dream went. I don't know why I dreamed this or what sparked it. But I woke up the next morning thinking it really happened, to only realize it was a dream.


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## UFC on VHS (Dec 16, 2008)

jdun11 said:


> Here we go, im doing it again FOLKS!!! I will leave this forum for good IF Chuck KO's Shogun. No TKO, but KO's Shogun.
> 
> Not happening SHogun is back and is going to beat that old man.


LOL you don't need to leave when or if sorry Shogun losses to Chuck. Maybe just turn down the nuthugging a but:thumb02: I got nothing against Shogun I would actually like to see the old shogun that people talk about but at the cost of the Iceman?? No thank you.

LOL but whatever when Mir fights Lesnar im gonna be sticking my foot in my mouth in every thread possible. Good luck to you Jdun we all know who your a rooting for and I think you have a good idea who I am.


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

shogirls getting raped by the iceman .


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Cool dream


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## Alkhir (Mar 3, 2008)

To be honest, there is no way I can see Shogun winning this fight. There, I said it. Not only did looked reaaallllyyy bad in his last fight, even If he was to train like crazy, 3 months is not enough to get his cardio where it needs to be for him to beat Chuck. I mean, Chuck is just a bad matchup for Shogun, that's all. I'll ever go as far as saying that the present Chuck would have beaten the old Shogun under UFC rules. There you go. Now I'll just sit and wait for the hate train.


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Alkhir- I agree that Chuck is a bad match-up for Shogun and I'm worried about Shogun's conditioning. I'll give him a slight pass for the Coleman fight just because he was coming off a long layoff that had 2 injuries to the same knee- it takes a very long time to fully recover the knee strength and cardio along with it. I hope he can improve it enough to put on a great performance against Chuck but yeah I see Chuck winning this. I won't agree though with there is "no way" Shogun could win this fight. It's MMA and anything can happen and if Shogun is patient and gets Chuck frustrated with the pace Liddell might get sloppy with coming forward and dropping his hands. I really hope not and that he has done what he said and worked on that so it doesn't happen. 

Shogun has a shot but I do see Chuck being able to win this late- hopefully after a kickass entertaining 2+ rounds where Shogun shows he's coming back to form and deserves to keep fighting in the UFC as he comes back from the injuries.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Here we go, im doing it again FOLKS!!! *I will leave this forum for good IF Chuck KO's Shogun*. No TKO, but KO's Shogun.
> 
> Not happening SHogun is back and is going to beat that old man.


No one takes you seriously about "leaving the forum" man.



The_Senator said:


> If someone keeps winning all the time, people start to think that he's unbeatable, unstoppable, etc. In the meantime, we witness some "rare surprises" in main/co-main events:
> 
> *UFC 70: Werdum vs Arlovski (most believed in Werdum that night)*


Where was the surprise? Everyone knew that fight could go either way.



The_Senator said:


> *UFC 71: Liddell vs Jackson (Chuck was to avenge his last remaining loss, but he failed miserably)*


The only surprise was how quickly it ended, not the outcome.



The_Senator said:


> UFC 77: Franklin vs Silva (a lot of fans expected a revenge from Franklin)


Those people were wishfully thinking, no one looking at the fight stylistically would have picked Franklin.



The_Senator said:


> *UFC 81: Lesnar vs Mir (still an upset in my opinion)*


Not sure how it's an upset, Lesnar was coming into the UFC with a single fight against Min Soo Kim.



The_Senator said:


> *UFC 93: Shogun vs Coleman (pathetic performance from young superstar, huge upset)*


How is that an upset? The favourite won.


----------



## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Here we go, im doing it again FOLKS!!! I will leave this forum for good IF Chuck KO's Shogun. No TKO, but KO's Shogun.
> 
> Not happening SHogun is back and is going to beat that old man.


Don't leave, dude. We need posters like you, even if they do root for Koscheck.


----------



## jasonc84 (Nov 9, 2007)

your not gonna beat me!!!!!!!!!!

seriously i hope chuck wins via KO. that way we don't have to see this retarded threads again.


----------



## UKRampage (Jan 28, 2009)

Damone said:


> I got Liddell, but wouldn't be shocked if Shogun ends up KO'ing him. Chuck is chinny as hell nowadays, while Rua does have a beard on him.
> 
> Still, stylistic wise, Chuck takes this.


I don't think Chuck has a weak chin to be honest. The shots that have put him to sleep were clean and would knock out a horse! I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to take heavy shots to the jaw from Rashad / Rampage etc, without taking a snooze on the canvas.

I am still in doubt over Shogun's cardio, so I agree that Chuck will come out and win with style.


----------



## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

GodlyMoose said:


> Alright here's how my dream went. They first started feeling each other out for like 10 seconds until Shogun comes up and starts pressuring him. He is just kinda moving forward at at Liddell throwing a lot of punches and few kicks. Liddell is throwing few punches while moving back while never hitting, Shogun not landing anything either except coming forward.
> 
> I then see him back Liddell into the cage and they start teeing off on each other, mostly missing, but both landing bombs on each other. I see Shogun move back and rock Liddell with a high kick. Notice, not knocked out, or drop him. But rocked. I see Shogun instantly coming throwing about 2-3 punches, while Liddell defends them kinda. Then Shogun comes forward with what looks likes a looping right, but as he steps forward puts his foot behind Liddells left foot, and his right hand comes over a little to the right of Liddell's shoulder.
> 
> He then grabs under his arm, and his left arm does the same to Liddell's right arm and gets a nice double under hook inside trip and Liddell down. He is almost already mounted when he trips him, he then takes full mount and proceeds to pounds on Liddell's face, until Yves Lavigne comes in and stops it. Shogun by tko in 3-4 minutes in round 1. This is how my dream went. I don't know why I dreamed this or what sparked it. But I woke up the next morning thinking it really happened, to only realize it was a dream.


I dreamed I won the lottery once and very vividly at that thought it had really happened but a few moments after waking i said aww shit...I never did win that lottery lol

You can't take dreams seriously though man. There is absolutely no chance Shogun gets the KO/TKO in the first round. If Shogun get the KO/TKO on Chuck I dont know what Ill do but it definitly wont happen in the first. Even Rashad with his insane power and super speed couldn't catch who people call an old man until the second round and before that he (Evans) was losing.


----------



## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Actually Rashad was winning round 2 before the KO. 

I had some messed up MMA dreams too. Just 2 days ago I was dreaming that Thiago Alves was fighting BJ Penn and he KO'd him within 30 sec in the 1st round (with leg kicks lol). And I was like "wow, this dude is the real deal, GSP better be ready". :laugh:

Back on topic, I think Shogun improved his cardio and he'll start to gas in round 3 (only..). Shogun has an iron chin and Chuck doesn't have the KO power of old so I don't see him winning by TKO, rather a UD.


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## Bad Ace (Jan 15, 2008)

Sure Shogun looked good. They are trying to sell pay-per-views. Do you think they would show him bent over trying to catch his breath after 5 minutes. Chuck will KO him in the second.


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

Supposedly Chuck is changing his game...wonder what Shogun is planning :dunno:


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

I kind of want to say Shogun since I see him as the underdog, and I like to root for the underdog, but I'm thinking Liddell by brutal KO.

Shogun can't make any mistakes at all. The chance of him being on the receiving end of that overhand right are too great. and I shiver thinking of what might happen if Chuck unleashes the kicks I've been praying he does.


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## GodlyMoose (May 20, 2007)

Emericanaddict said:


> I dreamed I won the lottery once and very vividly at that thought it had really happened but a few moments after waking i said aww shit...I never did win that lottery lol
> 
> You can't take dreams seriously though man. There is absolutely no chance Shogun gets the KO/TKO in the first round. If Shogun get the KO/TKO on Chuck I dont know what Ill do but it definitly wont happen in the first. Even Rashad with his insane power and super speed couldn't catch who people call an old man until the second round and before that he (Evans) was losing.


Let me believe in what I want.


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

I told you guys about that dream where James Irvin morphed into Yushin Okami while fighting Anderson Silva, who then proceeded to get the win by knocking Silva out with a steel lunchbox/pipe? How about the one where Fedor and Randy Couture showed up outside my house both sitting in the back of a Citroen and gave me a lift into town, with me sitting inbetween them?

Anyway, I hope Rua can use his grappling to pull this off.


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

iceman rapes shogirl ...2nd or 3rd round tko ...all in on v bookie for the iceman ..easiest points ever made .:thumb02:


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

swpthleg said:


> I kind of want to say Shogun since I see him as the underdog, and I like to root for the underdog, but I'm thinking Liddell by brutal KO.
> 
> Shogun can't make any mistakes at all. The chance of him being on the receiving end of that overhand right are too great. and I shiver thinking of what might happen if Chuck unleashes the kicks I've been praying he does.


if you werent already married id get down on one knee :thumb02: chucks killing shogirl ..no contest .


----------



## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

swpthleg said:


> I kind of want to say Shogun since I see him as the underdog, and I like to root for the underdog, but I'm thinking Liddell by brutal KO.
> 
> Shogun can't make any mistakes at all. The chance of him being on the receiving end of that overhand right are too great. and I shiver thinking of what might happen if Chuck unleashes the kicks I've been praying he does.


Shogun will win!


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Some of the guys on here are saying Shogun needs or will take Chuck down (is that possible for Shogun?) Much better wrestlers have tried and only 2 have succeeded that I can think of, Couture and rampage in pride.And I think the odds of Chuck getting submitted are astrinomical.> That word shorted my brain out now im tired.:confused05:


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## Kingofkings (Jan 18, 2009)

Oh god another one of these posts. Does no one remember the video's and countdown to the Coleman fight? Shogun had all that time off and was 100% and was going to avenge breaking his arm and all the shit that happened in the ring after the first fight. He was going to make Coleman pay for all the talk and blah blah blah blah. 

Then he came out and looked like shit for the second consecutive fight. I was a casual fan of Shogun when he came to the UFC but he has been nothing but a disappointment. Until he can put together a couple decent fights then he's nothing in the UFC but a former Pride star who has fizzled inside the cage.


----------



## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

GodlyMoose said:


> Let me believe in what I want.


YOU BASTARD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE I JUST HAD THE SAME EXACT FREAKING DREAM LAST NIGHT. I WOKE UP SERIOUSLY THINKING CHUCK HAD BEEN KO'ED BRUTALLY AND THEN RETIRED IN THE RING. I WAS DEVASTATED FOR ABOUT 5 MINUTES UNTIL I LOGGED ON AND SAW THE DATE.

Lol I dont seriously blame you but that is freaky that I just dreaed the same thing as you and I BELIEVE Chuck is going to win...Good god this had better not be a sign.



Then again I also dreamed that I was venom and killed some chick with my elastic dong (Last night aswell) but hey it was still freaky as hell...


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

I think this fight is going to be a mixture of of the Liddell/Wand fight, and Liddell/Jardine fight.

It is going the distance. Joe ROgan talked about the injuries that SHogun had and how he had similar ones.. He said it was nearly impossible to have ur cardio at full tilt that quick.

I think Shogun will take some shots, and Chuck will take some shots. Its gonna be a very close fight. Im saying split decision, and we will argue about who really one for 10 years to come.


----------



## Josh Jones III (Mar 20, 2009)

Kingofkings said:


> Oh god another one of these posts. Does no one remember the video's and countdown to the Coleman fight? Shogun had all that time off and was 100% and was going to avenge breaking his arm and all the shit that happened in the ring after the first fight. He was going to make Coleman pay for all the talk and blah blah blah blah.
> 
> Then he came out and looked like shit for the second consecutive fight. I was a casual fan of Shogun when he came to the UFC but he has been nothing but a disappointment. Until he can put together a couple decent fights then he's nothing in the UFC but a former Pride star who has fizzled inside the cage.


Regardless of how you feel about Shogun, that doesn't make Liddell any less washed up than he already is. He's clearly lost a step -- lost three of four fights while Shogun has won five of six. Tough to endorse the iceman at UFC 97, bro.


----------



## tecnotut (Jan 2, 2007)

People are writing off Shogun too soon, and I'm not really a fan of either of these fighters. I think Liddell is more one-dimensional than Shogun. It's been said Shogun's style is perfect for Liddell's KO style. 

However, let me remind you people something. Liddell has NOT KO'ed anyone since 2003, and he has NOT TKO'ed anyone since the end of 2006. The biggest wildcard here is Shogun's cardio. If Shogun's cardio is par or above par, then I think Liddell will lose.


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## jasonc84 (Nov 9, 2007)

> Im on board, *Shogun is going to beat CHuk in a very exciting fight by Unanimous Decision*. YEAAAAAAA Heessss's back. I feel it in my bones.





> Its gonna be a very close fight. *Im saying split decision*, and we will argue about who really one for 10 years to come.


by fight time you'll be at Chuck via KO

just stop posting bro


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## cabby (Sep 15, 2006)

I like Shogun just as much as the next guy. I have the guys autograph hanging on my wall for christs sakes, but, Chuck will smash him I hate to say.


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## chuckstillrocks (Oct 28, 2007)

its amazing what steriods did for shogun at pride. big drop off.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

No proof of that, dude. Totally unfair.


----------



## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Why is there a perception that every Pride fighter was juicing, anyway?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

It wasnt steroids that screwed Shogun, it was a mix of everything, you had the octagon and the rule changes that really effect a guy like Shogun especially the loss of soccer kicks and stomps, you also got the fact that he left Chute Boxe which I think is responsible for alot of it as training at his own gym he has nobody pushing him to go the extra mile, on top of that you got a couple surgeries and a long ass lay off, Im guaranteeing a Liddell victory but Im not buying the steroid argument thats just silly.


----------



## Uchaaa (Apr 22, 2007)

I dont get why silva and shogun and every other pro I see training do this shitty as machine isolation exercises. Why dont they squat and lift, I dont get it.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Yea he looked ready alright... ready to get KTFO xD jk, hope its a good fight, im rooting for liddell but I hope both guys bring their A game and have the fight of the year so they can both gain someone from this.

Ucha: Why dont they squat and lift, I dont get it.

Because thats very dangerous to do, a lot of guys damage themselves doing squats/dead lifts/other free weights. Machines are hella safe and while it may take longer you can still get an excellent workout from them.


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Toxic said:


> It wasnt steroids that screwed Shogun, it was a mix of everything, you had the octagon and the rule changes that really effect a guy like Shogun especially the loss of soccer kicks and stomps, you also got the fact that he left Chute Boxe which I think is responsible for alot of it as training at his own gym he has nobody pushing him to go the extra mile, on top of that you got a couple surgeries and a long ass lay off, Im guaranteeing a Liddell victory but Im not buying the steroid argument thats just silly.


Yeah i dont think steroids are a factor at all he hasn't lost a significant amount of mass since coming over or anything. but damn Toxic im all over your new sig man that thing is hella sweet. Props to you for having that kind of skills it took me long enough to make mine i cant imagine trying to make yours hahaha.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Thanks man, I think its the longet a sig has ever taken me to make, just not sure where to put the text once I slip Shogun in there :dunno:


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Thanks man, I think its the longet a sig has ever taken me to make, just not sure where to put the text once I slip Shogun in there :dunno:


Nice. :thumb02:


repped (gah gotta spread it around)


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## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

He did look pretty good but they could probably make me look good too. Chuck takes this one and im not a chuck fan at all.


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## UFC on VHS (Dec 16, 2008)

Toxic said:


> Thanks man, I think its the longet a sig has ever taken me to make, just not sure where to put the text once I slip Shogun in there :dunno:



Haha I was gonna say I like your new sig in another thread. After he beats Shogun you should put him in and then just put "ICED"


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Lol I actually like UFCFAN's idea alot to be honest though you are running a bit short on room. Just move "The Iceman" text into the ice shards highlight it blue like Chucks gloves that way it's readable insert Shogun where it used to be and put ICED aros his chest.

God im looking forward to the fights it's a pretty damn solid card and I just hope Chuck can really showcase his new techniques.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

xeberus said:


> Ucha: Why dont they squat and lift, I dont get it.
> 
> Because thats very dangerous to do, a lot of guys damage themselves doing squats/dead lifts/other free weights. Machines are hella safe and while it may take longer you can still get an excellent workout from them.


I called you out on this before in a different thread. It's complete bullshit.

To the whom it concerns, Shogun has 
1. Fought in a cage before UFC with success
2. Fought drug tested in PRIDE with success
3. Fought in PRIDE(and other places) with rules that dictated no stomps or soccer kicks with success

You are all idiots.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> I called you out on this before in a different thread. It's complete bullshit.
> 
> To the whom it concerns, Shogun has
> 1. Fought in a cage before UFC with success
> ...


What level of competition has Shogun ever faced in a cage outside the UFC? I said steroids never had anything to do with it.


----------



## Uchaaa (Apr 22, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> I called you out on this before in a different thread. It's complete bullshit.
> 
> To the whom it concerns, Shogun has
> 1. Fought in a cage before UFC with success
> ...


Your oppinion is ok, but I dont get why you quoted this post.


----------



## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

TheNegation said:


> I called you out on this before in a different thread. It's complete bullshit.
> 
> To the whom it concerns, Shogun has
> 1. Fought in a cage before UFC with success
> ...


out of respect , i agreed not to argue with you with a certain mod , but man , "you are all idiots ?" raise01:tone it down man , your making yourself look really immature with this stuff .


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Toxic said:


> What level of competition has Shogun ever faced in a cage outside the UFC? I said steroids never had anything to do with it.


Note the "to whom it may concern". It's not like all that post was specifically aimed at you.But the constant "Shogun can't succeed without stomps" "Oh the ring was what made him win fights Chute Boxe was perfect for it." and all that gets pretty annoying, even more so than the "Shogun should drop to 185" cretins.



Uchaaa said:


> Your oppinion is ok, but I dont get why you quoted this post.


That was on the weights thing, I wasn't adressing him with the second part.



duncanjr said:


> out of respect , i agreed not to argue with you with a certain mod , but man , "you are all idiots ?" raise01:tone it down man , your making yourself look really immature with this stuff .


Wow, mister "your a ***" telling me I am making myself look immature? Thanks for the heads up buddy I'm so glad you came here to explain that to me.
Can I tell you something? Every time you post something wrong, then get all pissy and defensive when someone calls you out on it instead of acknowledging it and moving on you make yourself look like you have the intelligence of a 12 year old. I mean what is it with people like you? Why do you come out and share your absolutely uneducated and ill founded opinion on things, and NOT EXPECT to get admonished for it? You aint a troll, you take things way too personally for that. So whats your deal? 

And for the record, I have been here a while. I aint a role model member, but I generally reserve my insults for the incredibly stupid members(when they aren't in jest of course) and basically never without a fairly well constructed argument to back them up. It hasn;t gotten me banned yet, if it does I won't have a problem with it.


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

TheNegation said:


> Note the "to whom it may concern". It's not like all that post was specifically aimed at you.But the constant "Shogun can't succeed without stomps" "Oh the ring was what made him win fights Chute Boxe was perfect for it." and all that gets pretty annoying, even more so than the "Shogun should drop to 185" cretins.
> 
> 
> That was on the weights thing, I wasn't adressing him with the second part.
> ...


 lol . wow ...yeah , your right . your not immature or defensive at all ...what was i thinking ? my sincerest appologies for questioning your man hood . your all man . you need to calm down buddy , i think your taking yourself wayy to seriously .


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

duncanjr said:


> lol . wow ...yeah , your right . your not immature or defensive at all ...what was i thinking ? my sincerest appologies for questioning your man hood . your all man . you need to calm down buddy , i think your taking yourself wayy to seriously .


People like you are too easy.Good job with the whole not arguing with me. I'm sure this mysterious great mod will be delighted with your dragging another thread into the gutter.

Anyway, what makes you think I am not calm? I can be perfectly calm and think you are stupid, and will have absolutely nothing of value what so ever to add to this forum in the future.
Also where did I say I wasn't immature and defensive?


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Drop all the kiddie hair pulling fellas and stick to the topic at hand. You can disagree civilly and do so without resulting to petty insults.

This crap has been happening way too much here lately. :thumbsdown:


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> People like you are too easy.Good job with the whole not arguing with me. I'm sure this mysterious great mod will be delighted with your dragging another thread into the gutter.
> 
> Anyway, what makes you think I am not calm? I can be perfectly calm and think you are stupid, and will have absolutely nothing of value what so ever to add to this forum in the future.
> Also where did I say I wasn't immature and defensive?


If you must know Im the one who asked him to cool it, thats right Im the mysterious mod and actually I am delighted that he has manged to refrain from petty name calling.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

I know toxic, I was just using that because I found his " agreed out of respect with a certain mod" part hilarious.

Name calling? I don't think thats the problem with the place nowadays.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> I called you out on this before in a different thread. It's complete bullshit.
> 
> To the whom it concerns, Shogun has
> 1. Fought in a cage before UFC with success
> ...


To my knowledge no one has ever called me out on this topic, must have missed your post if you did. What is bullshit about my post? It's widely known squats with free weights specifically are very dangerous and very often damaging. Even when using perfect form 100% of the time many people develop knee and back problems due to deterioration. And all of that is completely unnecessary because you can match the results of squats with other much safer exercises. Calling bullshit and people idiots, lol, your a joke. Prime candidate for the ignore feature  you just seem like a very angry person.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Let's just put it this way: a lot of basketball players don't even like to bend their knees past 90 degrees even to SIT DOWN OR GET UP OUT OF A CHAIR OR SOFA! With their long legs, it puts too much strain on their knees. 

Now, imagine loading up several hundred pounds on your back and THEN squatting down/bending your knees 90 degrees or more. Common sense dictates this will put enormous strain on your joints: back and knees in particular. 

A friend of mine used to love do squats, and, as you might expect, his knees are now shot. Granted, there are other ways of blowing out and wearing out knees, but placing lots of plates on a squat rack can get you there really fast. 



xeberus said:


> To my knowledge no one has ever called me out on this topic, must have missed your post if you did. What is bullshit about my post? It's widely known squats with free weights specifically are very dangerous and very often damaging. Even when using perfect form 100% of the time many people develop knee and back problems due to deterioration. And all of that is completely unnecessary because you can match the results of squats with other much safer exercises. Calling bullshit and people idiots, lol, your a joke. Prime candidate for the ignore feature  you just seem like a very angry person.


----------



## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

I like Shogun but I have to go with Liddell he is a legend and probably the person who made me love mma.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

xeberus said:


> It's widely known squats with free weights specifically are very dangerous and very often damaging. Even when using perfect form 100% of the time many people develop knee and back problems due to deterioration.


And can you provide a single source or study to base this BS on?


michelangelo said:


> Let's just put it this way: a lot of basketball players don't even like to bend their knees past 90 degrees even to SIT DOWN OR GET UP OUT OF A CHAIR OR SOFA! With their long legs, it puts too much strain on their knees.
> 
> Now, imagine loading up several hundred pounds on your back and THEN squatting down/bending your knees 90 degrees or more. Common sense dictates this will put enormous strain on your joints: back and knees in particular.
> 
> A friend of mine used to love do squats, and, as you might expect, his knees are now shot. Granted, there are other ways of blowing out and wearing out knees, but placing lots of plates on a squat rack can get you there really fast.




http://www.acsm-msse.org/pt/re/msse...Ppf1lQvFSCpDHL39!1553038018!181195628!8091!-1


Seriously xeb? You're gonna have a problem with me calling BS on you to that extent? It is bullshit, what do you want?


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> And can you provide a single source or study to base this BS on?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah no problem with you calling bullshit. It's just how aggressive you were being, as with most weight lifting there is always some danger and that's no bullshit. I did roam around for a bit found a few articles on the subject, the general consensus is that if a person has two knees in perfect condition and they use perfect form doing squats is not overly dangerous. In that regard you absolutely right, there is enough evidence to make a claim. I still feel the same about squats and dead lifts, just not worth the risk. 

But I concede to boobs:


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

I second boobies.


----------



## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

i like boobs


----------



## GodlyMoose (May 20, 2007)

*I got two boobies right here for ya.*


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

swpthleg said:


> Why is there a perception that every Pride fighter was juicing, anyway?


Because steroids automatically make you a better fighter.. don't they?


----------



## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

I think anyone with over 7k posts is juicing.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> Because steroids automatically make you a better fighter.. don't they?


Dude naw... naw dude...


Thing is, using steroids make you balls shrink. So less balls = less sperm = less chance to get bitches pregnant = more ******* bitches w/o condoms because condoms suck they are the bane of satan! 

okay so stick with me chief, you can **** more bitches means youre a hell of a lot happier, so you are willing to train more and eat better not to mention your confidence is through the ******* roof because hey you're ******* a shit load of bitches. and that is why steroids make better fighters


----------



## chilo (May 27, 2007)

War Shogun!!!


----------



## MooJuice (Dec 12, 2008)

xeberus said:


> Dude naw... naw dude...
> 
> 
> Thing is, using steroids make you balls shrink. So less balls = less sperm = less chance to get bitches pregnant = more ******* bitches w/o condoms because condoms suck they are the bane of satan!
> ...


^^ you took the words right out of my mouth


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

xeberus said:


> as with most weight lifting there is always some danger and that's no bullshit. I did roam around for a bit found a few articles on the subject, the general consensus is that if a person has two knees in perfect condition and they use perfect form doing squats is not overly dangerous. In that regard you absolutely right, there is enough evidence to make a claim.


Machines are more dangerous in the long run. You don't develop core or stabiliser muscle strength. They force your body into unnatural planes of movement(smith machine anything). You are also just as likely to injure yourself using incorrect form on a machine as with free weights(why wouldn't you be? Unless you are worried about KTFOing yourself with a dumbell doing overhead tricep extensions).
You don't get the same kind of workout from machines as free weights due to the stabilisation and core effects I spoke about earlier, and the fact that compound exercises are a whole different level than machines isolation.
I used to not mind machines that much, now I am pretty much against them in all cases, exceot for rehabing injuries.



xeberus said:


> Ah no problem with you calling bullshit. It's just how aggressive you were being,


Well, stuff like what you said below don't help.



xeberus said:


> I still feel the same about squats and dead lifts, just not worth the risk.


I'm always agressive when I see people post as an authority on stuff they aren't qualified to. It annoys me when people do it, it spreads misconceptions and effects other people. If you and Michaelangelo don't want to squat thats fine, but don't deprive other people of it by telling them myths that should have long ago been left behind.

*end rant*


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

DragonStriker said:


> I like Shogun but I have to go with Liddell he is a legend and probably the person who made me love mma.



ditto . i dont mind shogun . i was a fan in pride , just kinda was disgusted with the last two efforts , just cause i had set such high standards for his talrnt . i hope he does perform better , but im still 100 percent rooting for the iceman . for the same reason you stated above , he was the man that made me a much bigger fan of mma .:thumb02:






xeberus said:


> Dude naw... naw dude...
> 
> 
> Thing is, using steroids make you balls shrink. So less balls = less sperm = less chance to get bitches pregnant = more ******* bitches w/o condoms because condoms suck they are the bane of satan!
> ...


lol . that was outstanding . rep for that one .:thumbsup:


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Shogun has great leg kicks, and at the weigh in his legs were lookin like Crocop's. SO I see him giving Chuck a heavy dose of kicks. I really wouldnt be surprised with a HK knockout. Well, yea I would but it its not out of the question here. If Shogun chops at the legs and body, Chuck could be thinkin about the body and leg kick than bam HK knockout. Wow, I would passout if that happened lol 

I see Shogun coming in and bringing the fight to Chuck with his vast array of strikes. Keith Jardine is far from a great striker, he outstruck Chuck. Nearly two years later, Shogun will do the same.


----------



## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

xeberus said:


> Dude naw... naw dude...
> 
> 
> Thing is, using steroids make you balls shrink. So less balls = less sperm = less chance to get bitches pregnant = more ******* bitches w/o condoms because condoms suck they are the bane of satan!
> ...


Less balls also means less ability to **** chicks.


----------



## MMAism (Mar 31, 2009)

I think Shogun's cardio will be his downfall again In this fight.

I see Chuck taking this late In 2nd round by a flurry of punches before the ref jumps In and stops the fight.

I hope Im wrong though as I'd love nothing more than to see the old vicious _Pride_ Shogun enter the octagon.


----------



## bigaza (Feb 10, 2007)

if chuck loses i will cry, and i mean that literally a liddell win benefits mma more than a shogun win would.

its pretty obvious shogun cant hang with the big boys in the 205 division nowadays, im not saying chuck has done whole lot better recently but its no secret shogun fought a lot of cans over in japan [with the exception of overeem and rampage] while chuck was defending his belt like a warrior.

p.s shogun beat an injured and broken rampage jackson
__________________


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Ricardo Arona? 
LilNog? 
Kevin Randleman(not great, but definitely not a can)?

Shogun is still young and has amazing skills. Chuck is still a good fighter, even so he won't be around too much longer. I fail to see how him winning benefits MMA more.


----------



## bigaza (Feb 10, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> Ricardo Arona?
> LilNog?
> Kevin Randleman(not great, but definitely not a can)?
> 
> Shogun is still young and has amazing skills. Chuck is still a good fighter, even so he won't be around too much longer. I fail to see how him winning benefits MMA more.


LOL i knew my comments would be frowned upon, shogun is young yes thats true but amazing skills?! soccer kicks were good when it was allowed but when he hit the big leagues he buckled :thumb02:

lil nog = good win
randleman = over the hill
arona = overrated, been whooped plenty


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

bigaza said:


> LOL i knew my comments would be frowned upon, shogun is young yes thats true but amazing skills?! soccer kicks were good when it was allowed but when he hit the big leagues he buckled :thumb02:
> 
> lil nog = good win
> randleman = over the hill
> arona = overrated, been whooped plenty



How many wins have come about through the means of soccer kicks exactly?

Shogun has excellent clinch work, good takedowns, very good BJJ. He has an excellent skillset.

Arona has lost four times outside of Shogun, once to Fedor(a fight he actually won), once a split decision to Wand(at the top of his game), and gotten KO'd by Quinton in a fight he looked great in after sinking in a triangle and Sokky by means of quick KO. How is he overrated? He's beaten the likes of Wand, Hendo and Overeem.

Randleman may have been a bit past it, but it was still a legit win. Randleman isn't a can.


----------



## palmerboy (Oct 23, 2008)

I'm sittin on the edge of my seat here already in anticipation of this fight. WAR SHOGUN. And hopefully kang is doing the business as i type this


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

im hoping for shogun here but not cuz i like him better. its just the fact that liddel is at the end of his career either way but shogun is only 27yo so he could get back on track. :confused02:


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## palmerboy (Oct 23, 2008)

I want Shogun to win of course but not within the first round. I want a great fight that erases all doubt and silences all criticism over the Coleman fight.


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## mwhite18 (Feb 3, 2008)

*Shogun Train*

Who's hopping on with me? Let's hope it doesnt run out of gas lol


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

palmerboy said:


> I want Shogun to win of course but not within the first round. I want a great fight that erases all doubt and silences all criticism over the Coleman fight.


honestly i think chuteboxers should stay in japan b/c thir style gets crippled under the US rules


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I hope shogun has a great performance tonight!

(still rooting for chuck, but im hoping its foty so they both go up from here)


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## UFC on VHS (Dec 16, 2008)

Hell no Chuck Liddell all the way lol/


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

UFCFAN18 said:


> Hell no Chuck Liddell all the way lol/


...what he said ...dont forget kids ...shogirls getting ko"ed in the third :thumb02:


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Yeah, we get it duncan, very clever play on words. Maybe you should post it another 400 times.


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

TheNegation said:


> Yeah, we get it duncan, very clever play on words. Maybe you should post it another 400 times.


for you sweetheart ??...anything


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## GodlyMoose (May 20, 2007)

War Shogun! _*DUCK*_ Liddell is going to lose. You see what I did there? Holy dicking christ that's hilarious.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

duncanjr said:


> for you sweetheart ??...anything


You can't help it can you? haha.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

duncanjr said:


> for you sweetheart ??...anything





TheNegation said:


> You can't help it can you? haha.





Can you feel? THE LOVE!!!! TONIGHT!!!! :thumb02:


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## palmerboy (Oct 23, 2008)

Norway1 said:


> honestly i think chuteboxers should stay in japan b/c thir style gets crippled under the US rules


Maybe to an extent but for a 27 year old? Shogun should be able to adapt. Rampage was 27 when Shogun beat him and look how much Rampage has come on as a boxer since.... I think anyway that Shogun should be able to do something similar.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Lets Go Shogun!!!


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

wow, he had TWO major knee surgeries recently. If this guy's cardio is up to par, the sky's the limit...


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

thats one awsome entrance song


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Chuck by KO of the overrated Shogun.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Shogun hasn't been KO'd in 4 years? Uh, what?


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## UFC on VHS (Dec 16, 2008)

**** YA LIDDELL COME ON BUDDY DO YOUR [email protected]!!!!




AHGGHHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA


im sorry im drunk and pumoed


----------



## GarethUFC (Sep 12, 2007)

Chucks eye is open, even before he starts!!


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Please retire now.


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## k3232x (Sep 17, 2008)

Holy ****


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## GarethUFC (Sep 12, 2007)

Back Of The Head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Not again Chuck! I thought after he survived that leg lock that he could get by everything , and Shogun was throwing everything at him but it finally caught up with Liddell. Dang that left hadda hurt.


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## deanmzi (Oct 15, 2006)

SHOGUN!!! Goodnight Chuck


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## sove (Apr 7, 2007)

I would have said this regardless of who lost the fight... Damn. That sucks.


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## Hendo (Mar 2, 2007)

ahahah chuck is out. Very nice of shogun


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## UFC on VHS (Dec 16, 2008)

Nooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111



Fuuuuuck!!!!!!!

Nooooooooo I Cant Believe This Shit!!!


----------



## mwhite18 (Feb 3, 2008)

shogirl huh? :sarcastic12:


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## GKY (Jun 3, 2007)

Shogun looked amazing, and his striking actually looked really technical, very happy about that.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

YAHHHH MOTHER ******* **** THE DOUBTERES/ YESSSS screw all of you


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## Cheef_Reef (Jul 20, 2008)

Shogun's back

Chuck is done
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

I stand corrected. Shogun is not overrated. 
He just tricked us into thinking he was. Poor Chuck.


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## deanmzi (Oct 15, 2006)

Chuck's chin has become suspect


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Holy crap a part of me just died. Thanks for the memories Chuck- I'm stunned. 

I like Shogun so I'm happy for him- but damn I will always hate the last 2 images of Chuck in the UFC. Totally bummed.


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## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

Nooooooooooooes. Not again.


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## palmerboy (Oct 23, 2008)

YESSSSS! you ******* beauty. Its a sad day to see Chuck being questioned in the octagon about his future by Rogan but with Shogun as my favourite fighter i am over the moon with that result.


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## k3232x (Sep 17, 2008)

Rampage took Liddell's soul.


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Chuck can't beat Jardine, Rampage, Rashad or Shogun and they say he has to retire? Is there not room for anybody who can't beat the top frakking guys in the division? Get rid of all the other light heavies besides Forrest while you're at it Dana.


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## cabby (Sep 15, 2006)

tvu network screwed me over i missed it all go down:thumbsdown:


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## DanMMAFan (Apr 13, 2006)

During Chuck's entrance I had a funny feeling he would get knocked out by a left hook. Too bad I picked Liddell on mmaplayground. I hope the real Shogun stays in town from now on.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

My heart was pumping for that entire fight. 

Shogun looked awesome. I feel bad for chuck, but I feel a lot better for Shogun.


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## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

He still looks dazed


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## deanmzi (Oct 15, 2006)

Shogun just went after him with that big left - its like Chuck doesn't have very good eye sight - almost repeat of Evans - maybe they give him an easy opponent and let him go out with a victory, but can't ever see him again competing against contenders


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## tomjones (Mar 18, 2007)

What a sad end to a great fighter.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Mauricio's a stud. His skill level was still freaky against Coleman, he just didn't have any gas in the tank. As a matter of fact, his skill level really does remind me of GSP. That's how good I think he is/can be, assuming he gets his conditioning and strength up to par. 



palmerboy said:


> YESSSSS! you ******* beauty. Its a sad day to see Chuck being questioned in the octagon about his future by Rogan but with Shogun as my favourite fighter i am over the moon with that result.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

this pure awsomeness. shogun is back. im guessing shogun vs cane next


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## +Shogun+ (Aug 3, 2007)

Yessssssssssssssssssss!!!! Sooooo Haaaaapppyyyy!!!!

THAT'S MY BOY SHOGUN!!!!


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## ufc4life (Jul 14, 2008)

chuck seriously needs to retire now, be inducted to the hall of fame and just attend events.......im sad at this point and very dissapointed


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## Alienspy (Jan 30, 2007)

Woooo! What a fight, those leg kicks really hurt chuck, it looked like he limped a few steps when he was circling. Shogun's is back.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

dudeabides said:


> Chuck can't beat Jardine, Rampage, Rashad or Shogun and they say he has to retire? Is there not room for anybody who can't beat the top frakking guys in the division? Get rid of all the other light heavies besides Forrest while you're at it Dana.


Chuck is getting older and has been brutally KO'd in 3 of 5 fights. This one wasn't AS bad as the Rampage one or the *shudder* Rashad one but he still was KO'd without question.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

[email protected]!!!)*[email protected]#(*[email protected](*! :d:d:d:d:d


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## GarethUFC (Sep 12, 2007)

dudeabides said:


> Chuck can't beat Jardine, Rampage, Rashad or Shogun and they say he has to retire? Is there not room for anybody who can't beat the top frakking guys in the division? Get rid of all the other light heavies besides Forrest while you're at it Dana.


you sir are a moron!


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## palmerboy (Oct 23, 2008)

Norway1 said:


> this pure awsomeness. shogun is back. im guessing shogun vs cane next


I'm going to say the Shogun of tonight takes the Cane of tonight. I'd like to see that though.


----------



## UFC on VHS (Dec 16, 2008)

*It's a sad day in UFC history for Chuck Fans*

First of all I would like to say hats off to Jdun Brickhouse and any other hardcore Shogun fans. Shogun looked great tonight he finshed Liddell and he was sure as hell not the Shogun that showed up at UFC 93.

Who here has watched Chuck Liddell for many years?? Who here has not missed a fight? Who here has enjoyed many of them?? I know I have and it's a sad day when even I will say Chuck Liddell should retire.

I used to argue and disagree with the people who would say Chuck is too old. Chuck is too slow. Chuck has lost his game.....but you know what?? Maybe they were right. All I can say is Chuck Liddell is a Legend and thank you for all the entertianment. Chuck Liddell for UFC Hall of Fame.

How do you guys feel?


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

michelangelo said:


> Mauricio's a stud. His skill level was still freaky against Coleman, he just didn't have any gas in the tank. As a matter of fact, his skill level really does remind me of GSP. That's how good I think he is/can be, assuming he gets his conditioning and strength up to par.


Yeah, but he'll never have close the strength or conditioning of GSP p4p. He hits a lot harder though. Real crazy power.


----------



## sove (Apr 7, 2007)

Shogun looked great! It was less than a round, so I'm not going to let myself get too excited about his future in the UFC, but I'm hopeful. If Shogun's next fight is a 2 or 3 round war we can say that Shogun is back. Not yet.


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

I can't wati till all the die-hard Shogun fans who have been missing since he came to the UFC show up again.

******* hell I'm pumped. I can't wait to go on a shogun binge tomorrow.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

palmerboy said:


> I'm going to say the Shogun of tonight takes the Cane of tonight. I'd like to see that though.


Yes, quite easily. Shogun has bigger power and speed. Cane is quite slow, especially movement wise. Shogun was really fluid and quick tonight.


----------



## j-grif (May 1, 2007)

*What will Chuck Liddell do now?*

I have to sit here and wonder now after being destroyed yet again what will Chuck do now? He has lost 4 of his last 5 all to top people in the division, but after being on top so long it has to make him think about it as much as we do. I think it is time to hang up the gloves, but he already said no matter the outcome he was not done yet. How many more beatings will he take before he decides it's enough? Will he come to the conclusion that he will never be a title holder again and be O K with just being a gate keeper? Will Chuck hang up the gloves before it's too late, or will the gloves hang him?


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## palmerboy (Oct 23, 2008)

sove said:


> Shogun looked great! It was less than a round, so I'm not going to let myself get too excited about his future in the UFC, but I'm hopeful. If Shogun's next fight is a 2 or 3 round war we can say that Shogun is back. Not yet.


I was waiting for someone to take something away from it...


----------



## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

I feel sick. I even feel like crying. I really didn't want Chuck to lose this fight like that. I reckon Chuck would have found his groove in the 2nd round had he not got caught with that shot. And Dana White's acting like twat saying without Chuck's permission that if he loses he'll retire. Deeply disrespectful. Shogun is still a **** piece of shit anyhow and he won't go anywhere as long as Rashad Evan's reigns as champion. Boo to Shogun.


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## RestInPeace (Jan 1, 2007)

Hats off to the man who gave us shows for years. No matter if he won or lost he always put on a show for the fans and I respect that. My first UFC event main-evented with Liddell vs Ortiz II and that match got me hooked. From then on I've watched every UFC event put on and I must say I don't think Liddell is done completely. He has a little gas left. After all...it is Shogun. No matter what happened tonight I knew I would be sad. Whatever Chuck chooses to do I'm behind him.

But congrats to Shogun for the great performance. I'm a huge Shogun fan too so i'm excited for his comeback. Cheers to his future in the UFC as well.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

TheNegation said:


> I can't wati till all the die-hard Shogun fans who have been missing since he came to the UFC show up again.
> 
> ******* hell I'm pumped. I can't wait to go on a shogun binge tomorrow.


Heh, just remember, that's a load of talent out to test if he really is "back". The thing about Shogun, is he's still very young, so rather than just getting "back" he could be getting better. Whioh would be interesting.


----------



## Grindyourmind (Nov 20, 2008)

When i saw and heard chuck walkin in with raining blood by slayer playin i thought i would explode and he would kill shogun. no matter what he does next i stil think chuck is the man. He seems to be done. The only thing that annoys me is the fact that Dana was yelling at him to stay and talk with Joe to the retirement issue. He was put down hard again. Let him come to. Congrats Shogun.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

The Dark Knight said:


> I feel sick. I even feel like crying. I really didn't want Chuck to lose this fight like that. I reckon Chuck would have found his groove in the 2nd round had he not got caught with that shot. And Dana White's acting like twat saying without Chuck's permission that if he loses he'll retire. Deeply disrespectful. Shogun is still a **** piece of shit anyhow and he won't go anywhere as long as Rashad Evan's reigns as champion. Boo to Shogun.


Which could be ending the next event. And tbh Dana was just pointing out the obvious unfortunately.


----------



## Chipper (May 22, 2008)

Im a huge Tito Ortiz fan. I hated this man after he beat Tito down TWICE! But damn I had his back tonight and I will respect that man for life for what he has done in the UFC. Hes created some of the best moments ever.

He was just out of shape, slow and too old to change. He looked pregnant ffs. Im rooting for him but at the same time I can see hes gonna get his ass knocked down. You cant teach an old dog new tricks .

He truely is the man. Thanks for all the memories Chuck!


----------



## UFC on VHS (Dec 16, 2008)

I would personally like to see Chuck retire now but I know he won't. It's really hard to except somthing like this and I have a feeling he might be a gatekeeper for awhile.

Like Dana White said. The guy has done everything you possibly can in this sport, theres nothing left to prove....

I still can't believe he lost I always argued with the people saying Chuck is too old he's to slow he has lost his game but you know what?? They were right. It's time to except it and I hope Liddell does this too I don't want him to Shamrock his Legacy.


----------



## tomjones (Mar 18, 2007)

Words cannot express how I feel at the moment. But briefly I will say that "Im sad".

Ive watched liddell fight since his stunning KO of Randleman. I wasnt a big fan at first but Chuck kind of grows on you. He kind of reminded me of a guy on a tough man competition but know he reminds me of Chuck Norris with a mohawk.

Chuck beat some of the biggest names in MMA and became one of the biggest names ever in mma. Now its time for him to let go and only step into the octagon again to be inducted into the hall of fame.


----------



## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

Should Chuck retire? idk. I say Chuck should do whatever he wants. I'm the biggest Chuck fan ever. My fist event was UFC 52 Randy vs Chuck 2. Loved Chuck ever since. Respect goes out to Shogun though for a hell of a performance.


----------



## palmerboy (Oct 23, 2008)

Roflcopter said:


> Which could be ending the next event. And tbh Dana was just pointing out the obvious unfortunately.


More than likely will be ending at 98. Rampage to take title from Machida by the time Shogun works his way up. Shogun/Rampage 2


----------



## DropKicker (Apr 16, 2009)

*Go to Heavy Weight Chuck!*

Chuck! you have great take down defense & you're much quicker & better striker than most of those bigger guys at HW....the LHW division is too talented with too many younger fighters still improving everyday...


----------



## deanmzi (Oct 15, 2006)

palmerboy said:


> I'm going to say the Shogun of tonight takes the Cane of tonight. I'd like to see that though.


hhhmmm - yes I agree Shogun would beat Cain, but not sure they will fight next. Cain vs Hamill is my prediction
Shogun maybe gets loser of Evans vs Machida??


----------



## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

No, Chuck should not retire. He should come to NY and train me.

And nobody f*cking called this. There was no clear favorite going in to the fight IMO, just individual preference, so anyone who wants to say "I told you so" can step off.


----------



## palmerboy (Oct 23, 2008)

deanmzi said:


> hhhmmm - yes I agree Shogun would beat Cain, but not sure they will fight next. Cain vs Hamill is my prediction
> Shogun maybe gets loser of Evans vs Machida??


You think Shogun is that high on the table? One good result in the ufc. Maybe if its put down to the ufc paying him too much for each fight etc but he should have one more good win first.


----------



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

*Guess whos bizzzzacckkkkk*

Bring on anyone in LHW division, the 05 Shogun is back!!! Where are all the haters now??????????? 

WAR SHOGUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!raise01: raise01:


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

One fight is not sufficient to making an accurate survey.


----------



## palmerboy (Oct 23, 2008)

jdun11 said:


> Bring on anyone in LHW division, the 05 Shogun is back!!! Where are all the haters now???????????
> 
> WAR SHOGUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!raise01: raise01:


I jumped up out of my chair, Cider flying everywhere and my missus nearly had a stroke. What a feeling i was sweating just watching the fight cos i thought Shogun looked so nervous at the prep point. Great result. WAR SHOGUN!!!


----------



## Silva 1 (Nov 17, 2008)

> One fight is not sufficient to making an accurate survey.


but that fight was as much as i cried after it was


----------



## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

TheNegation said:


> I can't wati till all the die-hard Shogun fans who have been missing since he came to the UFC show up again.
> 
> ******* hell I'm pumped. I can't wait to go on a shogun binge tomorrow.


I'm waiting for jdun11 to make one of his "He's Back" Threads! You know its coming! 

Shogun made me look like an idiot. I thought Chuck was a bad match-up for Shogun and he destroyed him pretty easily. I hate being wrong! Oh well, Congrats to Shogun!:thumb02:

Sad to see Chuck go out like that. I think this pretty much indicates his career in the UFC is finished.


----------



## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

jdun11 said:


> Bring on anyone in LHW division, the 05 Shogun is back!!! Where are all the haters now???????????
> 
> WAR SHOGUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!raise01: raise01:



There are plenty of other fighter's who'll expose Shogun. Just you wait. He will NEVER become champion. He won't even be a contender. He'll get schooled sooner or later. Jardine would have him, an UNINJURED Quinton would have, Rashad would eat him for breakfast, Forrest would rip him another arsehole - again and even the rookie Ryan Bader would batter the living daylights out of him. Shogun ain't nowt.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Shogun vs Rich would be cool to see.


----------



## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

Its been nice knowin ya Chuck...
There go 1380 points. 
I didn't see the fight, just logged on and seen the results..anyone have a link to the fight??


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Bonnar426 said:


> I'm waiting for jdun11 to make one of his "He's Back" Threads! You know its coming!


I think he posted it at the same time you were makng this post.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

The Dark Knight said:


> There are plenty of other fighter's who'll expose Shogun. Just you wait. He will NEVER become champion. He won't even be a contender. He'll get schooled sooner or later. Jardine would have him, an UNINJURED Quinton would have, Rashad would eat him for breakfast, Forrest would rip him another arsehole - again and even the rookie Ryan Bader would batter the living daylights out of him. Shogun ain't nowt.


Eh, Jardine and Bader no. Forrest would be interesting to see. Shogun was hurt that fight so I can't really say. I think Rashad would win as well, and Rampage would have a slight edge.


----------



## Silva 1 (Nov 17, 2008)

he has the hand speed but what happens if say frank mir takes him down what does he do


----------



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

The old Shogun is back, I dont care what you guys say.

If he fights Rampage, he will kill him again. Id bet my life on it.

I swear, I cried a lil bit after the fight. No lie.


----------



## UFC on VHS (Dec 16, 2008)

It's over man. Chuck ethier needs to admit he is never going to get the title again and fight lower class fighters or just retire.


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

The Dark Knight said:


> There are plenty of other fighter's who'll expose Shogun. Just you wait. He will NEVER become champion. He won't even be a contender. He'll get schooled sooner or later. Jardine would have him, an UNINJURED Quinton would have, Rashad would eat him for breakfast, Forrest would rip him another arsehole - again and even the rookie Ryan Bader would batter the living daylights out of him. Shogun ain't nowt.


Yeah! Just like you said Chuck would!!1



I started throwing punches in my chair when Shogun knocked him down. Awesome.


----------



## UFCFAN33 (May 29, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> The old Shogun is back, I dont care what you guys say.
> 
> If he fights Rampage, he will kill him again. Id bet my life on it.


Shogun fought very well tonight, but Ramp will knock is ass out!


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Silva 1 said:


> he has the hand speed but what happens if say frank mir takes him down what does he do


He loses, which is why he can't and won't fight at HW.


----------



## Cheef_Reef (Jul 20, 2008)

instead, he should drop the beer belly and go to 185 where he could actually win a fight or two before he retires..


----------



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

TheNegation said:


> Yeah! Just like you said Chuck would!!1
> 
> 
> 
> I started throwing punches in my chair when Shogun knocked him down. Awesome.


Yeaaaaaaaaaaa me too homie me tooooooo, Shogun was in full form tonight. Noone was beating him!


----------



## name goes here (Aug 15, 2007)

Sorry to say it but... Chuck looked bad, this is no indication of Shogun coming back, but at least it isn't him looking bad


----------



## ifightz (Apr 19, 2009)

*im watching they are showing it live free on www.ifightz.com for free to members*

wow finally a site that workds live stream on www.ifightz.com check it out guys this shits outta control


----------



## UFCFAN33 (May 29, 2006)

Its time for Chuck to retire and be remembered as a great fighter.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

jdun11 said:


> The old Shogun is back, I dont care what you guys say.
> 
> If he fights Rampage, he will kill him again. Id bet my life on it.
> 
> I swear, I cried a lil bit after the fight. No lie.


That's silly.


----------



## Bazza89 (Dec 31, 2006)

The Dark Knight said:


> There are plenty of other fighter's who'll expose Shogun. Just you wait. He will NEVER become champion. He won't even be a contender. He'll get schooled sooner or later. Jardine would have him, *an UNINJURED Quinton would have*, Rashad would eat him for breakfast, Forrest would rip him another arsehole - again and even the rookie Ryan Bader would batter the living daylights out of him. Shogun ain't nowt.


Man I barely post here anymore ut for the last freakin time: RAMPAGE WAS INJURED BECAUSE SHOGUN INJURED HIM.

It's nut a fluke victory if you smish your knee through someones ribs. Shoguin looked awesome tonight, waay better than Rashad did against Chiuck. I wrote an article over at my pillow aout Shogun's boxing and I've gotta say, is looked a LOT better tonight.

He's baaack.:thumb02:


----------



## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

It's one fight, guys.

Let's see what happens when he fights Rampage. And I am not a Shogun hater. He was a fuckin badass in Pride.


----------



## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

You are real impartial too I see.


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

name goes here said:


> Sorry to say it but... Chuck looked bad, this is no indication of Shogun coming back, but at least it isn't him looking bad


Bullshit. tight standup, good movement, nice leg kicks, the takedown to leglock transition. Shogun looked fantastic.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

swpthleg said:


> It's one fight, guys.
> 
> Let's see what happens when he fights Rampage. And I am not a Shogun hater. He was a fuckin badass in Pride.


This.

You're going to feel mighty silly saying, 'Heee's baaack' if he puts on a poor showing his next time out. Many a fan said the same about Chuck after his fight with Silva, and I think we all know how that's ended.


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## DropKicker (Apr 16, 2009)

lol @ Jdun's tears after the fight.... but yeah Shogun is back & I don't even care what any hater thinks... He's back in tiptop 05 form baby! He has to tools to beat any top tier at 205...


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## Guy (Feb 17, 2008)

My boy Shogun is back. I feel silly for doubting him. 

Feed him with Forrest.


----------



## UFC on VHS (Dec 16, 2008)

I have to say I was defintly rooting for Chuck by a long shit infact im actually kinda depressed right now that he lost but....

I can't belive how diferent Shogun was from the Coleman fight to tonight. I wish the fight made it to the 3rd just so we could have tested his tank a bit.


----------



## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

wow , im really disgusted by chucks loss ...shogun looked good . hats off to him .if he showed up like that against coleman , it woulda ben a massacer:thumb02:


----------



## cezwan (Dec 7, 2007)

God yes..

i was jumping up and down!


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I was a hater...

*drops hands*

go ahead take a swing...

(btw my shit went out for this fight, so anyone who can link it to me would be awesome*


----------



## Silva 1 (Nov 17, 2008)

dont want him to ken shamrock him self


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## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

shogun vs jardine. make it happen ufc
now i am gonna go and whoop chucks ass in video game lol


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

xeberus said:


> I was a hater...
> 
> *drops hands*
> 
> ...


It was vintage Shogun. He beat Chuckto the punch every time they engaged, took him down, did what he wanted to him. Eventually caught him with a left, and finished him with hammerfists.

Shogun looked, fresh, fast, and explosive.


----------



## Blitzz (Apr 13, 2009)

Silva 1 said:


> he has the hand speed but what happens if say frank mir takes him down what does he do


How the hell is Mir going to take down Chuck.

More like, can he stuff a td from Lesnar.


----------



## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

xeberus said:


> Can you feel? THE LOVE!!!! TONIGHT!!!! :thumb02:




SHOOOOOOOOO-GAAAAAAAAAHN!!!!
!!


----------



## infamous2117 (Feb 9, 2007)

dontazo said:


> shogun vs jardine. make it happen ufc
> now i am gonna go and whoop chucks ass in video game lol



how you cop that already?


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> It was vintage Shogun. He beat Chuckto the punch every time they engaged, took him down, did what he wanted to him. Eventually caught him with a left, and finished him with hammerfists.
> 
> Shogun looked, fresh, fast, and explosive.


Yea, i've read a few play by plays can't wait to see the fight. he took chuck down?!!?!? im still like wtf


----------



## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

Nice job Shogun, respect to Chuck though.


----------



## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

Chuck, at his prime, was a wonder to watch because one just *knew* he was gonna KO some fool by the end of the fight. He also bent the laws of MMA by almost completely avoiding the groundgame and just doin' his thang. (He's like the inverse of Demian Maia in a way ^^)

Hat's off for a really cool guy and a great fighter! (And I've never even been a big fan of his!) 

I'm still happy though, cause I was personally pullin' for the Show-gun


----------



## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

anyone wants a torrent link (very good quality ) i can pm tmr


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## mwhite18 (Feb 3, 2008)

Had to shut train ride down early tonight guys. Had to drop chuck off..he fell asleep .


----------



## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

Chuck Liddell is one of the best. We will see what happens with him.


----------



## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

Poor Chuck. 

That is all.


----------



## Future_Fighter (Feb 6, 2008)

I am hopping on the shogun bandwagon :thumb02:

i'm hopping aboard


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

Hes definitely going to retire. After his loss to Rashad, he immediately stated that he was going no where. After this loss he said he didnt know and had to think about it. That to me shows that he is done in his mind now. I'm sure he absolutely doesn't want to, but he must feel like he can't keep up now. This loss doesn't tarnish his career, everyone has to get old and slow down some day. Its happened to Wandy, its happened to Shamrock, its happened to Liddell, it happened to Igor, it will happen to Anderson, it wont happen to Fedor. Its time for Chuck to bow out before things get really bad.


----------



## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

*UFC 97: Dana White on Chuck Liddell's final fight VIDEO*


----------



## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

Saw this coming a mile away, but: Congratz Jdun. I'm super happy as well!!!

Will we se old Shogun, (or maybe even NEW Shogun) now?


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## MenorcanMadman (Jan 8, 2009)

Never got off brother, I knew he still had it in him, im stoked right now.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Retire.


----------



## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

Damn, Liddell is one of the best and will always be one of my favorites.


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

michelangelo said:


> Retire.


ditto


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## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

Yes! Shogun won... I had faith in him since he came to the UFC. Bet all my points on him etc. I do feel sorry for Chuck though and I hope he comes back.


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## unclehulka13 (Nov 17, 2008)

Yay Shogun, you've beaten 2 men with a median age of 42 years old. 

He's back in fine form.......


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## Gavin (Feb 4, 2007)

*Shots to the back of the head. Shogun/Chuck related*

So after the initial knock down to Chuck, Shogun started going crazy with the hammerfists, straights etc. When Chuck rolled over however, I counted not one, not two, but THREE deliberate shots to the back of Chucks head. These weren't glancing blows either, I saw a straight shot directly to the part of Chuck's neck where the spine meets the skull. Now, obviously to say that Shogun should have been dq'd will not make me very popular on the boards seeing as he did legit knock Chuck down. Had the fight been called before the back of the head shots, I wouldn't be as upset but I have to wonder how much of a toll those extra shots took. Chuck wasn't out this time ala Rashad as he was moving. I don't know, what do you guys think?


----------



## +Shogun+ (Aug 3, 2007)

It's not his last fight. He'll be back.


----------



## sicc (Mar 4, 2007)

I like Chuck too man, but it's done, it's over, Chuck is no more and we have to learn to accept it.


----------



## Shogun_Is_Champ (Jun 17, 2007)

unclehulka13 said:


> Yay Shogun, you've beaten 2 men with a median age of 42 years old.
> 
> He's back in fine form.......


Haha, I like you bandwagonning ****, even when Shogun destroys your MMA posterboy, you can't give Shogun his credit. Get Chuck and Rampage's nuts out of your face and open your eyes. SHOGUN IS BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

Dana just stated exactly why people will always love Chuck Liddell and boo Anderson Silva. Chuck is a gunslinger and went out guns a blazin. Can't fault him for that, that's how he provided so many highlight reel knockouts.


----------



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

LOL, what a piss poor excuse.


----------



## Javelin (Dec 28, 2007)

I thought it was more to the side of the head...

As soon as Chuck went down. Shogun got on him and was like laying on Chuck's left arm while his right arm was behind his back so he had nothing to defend himself with. Took one hammerfist and was already seeing major stars, 2 more to the side of the head and he was touring the galaxy. One more shot if the ref didn't step in, definitely would've been a KO.


----------



## Shogun_Is_Champ (Jun 17, 2007)

Gavin said:


> So after the initial knock down to Chuck, Shogun started going crazy with the hammerfists, straights etc. When Chuck rolled over however, I counted not one, not two, but THREE deliberate shots to the back of Chucks head. These weren't glancing blows either, I saw a straight shot directly to the part of Chuck's neck where the spine meets the skull. Now, obviously to say that Shogun should have been dq'd will not make me very popular on the boards seeing as he did legit knock Chuck down. Had the fight been called before the back of the head shots, I wouldn't be as upset but I have to wonder how much of a toll those extra shots took. Chuck wasn't out this time ala Rashad as he was moving. I don't know, what do you guys think?


Stop Crying Baby.


----------



## Toro (Aug 11, 2007)

Let it go man. Seriously.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I can see Chuck wanting to go out with a 'W', and while no, it's not Dana's call in the end, I think everyone calling for retirement has Chuck's best interest at heart. He's been knocked out cold quite a few times in a row, now, and he's pushing 40. That can't be good for the old noggin, and as many are saying, why Ken Shamrock your legacy? Chuck still has 'face' in this sport, but perhaps it's best to leave now, with some of that face still intact. There's no shame in losing to the elite LHWs of today, but what is Dana to do at this point? Feed Chuck a few cans? I doubt that'd be what Liddell would want.


----------



## MenorcanMadman (Jan 8, 2009)

I was sitting at Hooters nervous as hell, I just knew Shogun was going to walk right into a punch and get dropped, and then he dropped Chuck and the place exploded and I was out of my chair yelling, I barely have any voice left from that one fight. I was so happy to see Shogun back in good form and kicking ass. Here's to hoping he can remain in top form all the way to the championship!


----------



## HorsepoweR (Jun 1, 2007)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Hes definitely going to retire. After his loss to Rashad, he immediately stated that he was going no where. After this loss he said he didnt know and had to think about it. That to me shows that he is done in his mind now. I'm sure he absolutely doesn't want to, but he must feel like he can't keep up now. This loss doesn't tarnish his career, everyone has to get old and slow down some day. Its happened to Wandy, its happened to Shamrock, its happened to Liddell, it happened to Igor, it will happen to Anderson, *it wont happen to Fedor*. Its time for Chuck to bow out before things get really bad.


lol..


----------



## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

Shogun_Is_Champ said:


> Stop Crying Baby.


Your AV confuses me...

But Poor Liddell.. it's over for him.


----------



## Sojuuk (Apr 22, 2008)

It almost feels like they fed Chuck to Rua 
I'd love for him to go out on a win but as time goes by that becomes less and less likely.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

I have to say that's one hell of an improvement for 3 months of work, Shogun looked so much faster and more explosive. He seemed a little nervous for the first little while but after that everything was crisp with lots of snap. The takedown was sweet and the transition to the leglock was beautiful.

I have to admit I had serious doubts after his previous performance, but man am I ever happy to see Shogun in good form again. Whatever training he's doing, keep on doing it and he can start another epic run in the LHW division.


----------



## mwhite18 (Feb 3, 2008)

If wanderlei loses to rich..watch them scheme up a rematch between chuck and wandy since they both shouldnt be fighting top tier guys anymore. Who wouldnt love to see those two go at again? I'd buy it over the card that was on tonight any day.


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## Gavin (Feb 4, 2007)

Jesus Christ guys, I just ask a question and you guys jump all over me. I hope Shoguns balls can grow hair fast enough so you guys have something to hang off of.


----------



## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

Nice fight, I think Shogun proved he is still a top 205er with a complete MMA game.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

Gavin said:


> Jesus Christ guys, I just ask a question and you guys jump all over me. I hope Shoguns balls can grow hair fast enough so you guys have something to hang off of.


Well... to be honest... this is just a really crappy excuse.. it just is.

And then trying to insult us really isn't going to get you any love here.


----------



## Javelin (Dec 28, 2007)

I googled and found this gif on sherdog










7 hammerfists, about 2 of them was arguably on the back of the head while the rest were to the temple.


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## browncow (Jun 14, 2008)

Side of the head... thought it was clear on the replay.


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## Andreas Miko (May 28, 2007)

Chuck is out of her, thank God.


Rampage softened him up and gave everyone the blueprint on how to knock his ass out.

Evans seasoned him up and confirmed Rampages Tecnique.

Shogun cooked him and served him up another of the same thing.


So we now have a well done Lidell.

The Iceman has melted.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Honestly guys, you have no idea how awesome this win was for me. The Forrest loss hurt bad, but this win felt equally as good.

It seemed to me like Shogun was a totally different fighter than we have seen in the UFC. If that Shogun comes out in the future, LOOK OUT!


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

I agree to an extent with the thread. That left hand messed Chuck up, and the way Shogun was laying on top of him was going to end the fight definitely. But the shots to the back of the head were completely against the rules and unnecesarry. If those didn't occur, Chuck would have still lost the fight, so its wrong to DQ Shogun, but he definitely should be penelized somehow.


----------



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Javelin said:


> I googled and found this gif on sherdog
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Post of the year! Word was that Shogun had no power. First round, Chuck is out eating hammafists to the grill.

Get over it man.


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## MenorcanMadman (Jan 8, 2009)

I count one shot to the actual back of Chuck's head and it was the very last punch before the ref stopped it. The rest were to the side of his head. I dont see how you can call for a DQ with one shot to the back of the head. I mean if Chuck had gotten out of that, Shogun might of gotten a warning from the ref.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Sounds like Chuck is going to either retire or fight for Strikforce.


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## randyspankstito (Sep 25, 2006)

I'm thinkin' Arby's


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## e-thug (Jan 18, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Sounds like Chuck is going to either retire or fight for Strikforce.


You would be a moron if ya think Dana would let Strikeforce take Liddell.

I really hope that Liddell decides to retire....that was real difficult to watch and I hope he does retire and continue to work with the UFC in some capacity.

If this was the last show Liddell, I was honoured to be apart of watching your phenomenal career, I had a welt in my eye watching you lose tonight.raise01:


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## half_machine (Apr 19, 2009)

He's done. To old.


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## Guy (Feb 17, 2008)

Chuck Liddell: the hero, the icon, the legend of MMA. 

Too bad we never got to see Frank Shamrock vs. Liddell or Igor vs. Liddell.

The last fight he will probably EVER have is probably vs. Couture at HW.


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## elardo (Jul 8, 2007)

He didn't change his training/lifestyle with the years, so I don't know if it's possible to make up for that. I think that retiring after a loss to Shogun would be the best way to go out. Otherwise, fight Coleman and retire. Which isn't a high note, but he could get that win against another UFC hall of famer.


----------



## MenorcanMadman (Jan 8, 2009)

jdun11 said:


> Honestly guys, you have no idea how awesome this win was for me. The Forrest loss hurt bad, but this win felt equally as good.
> 
> It seemed to me like Shogun was a totally different fighter than we have seen in the UFC. If that Shogun comes out in the future, LOOK OUT!


I have an idea man, I mean I was so nervous for this fight and wanted Shogun to win so bad. I seriously said a prayer right before the fight. And when Shogun dropped him it was like I had just dropped Chuck Liddell, it was awesome. Sitting at a table with three Liddell fans made it all that much better.

On a side note I do feel for Chuck, I mean pretty much any other fighter than Shogun and Wand and I would have been pulling for Chuck. I hope he doesnt retire, or get cut or anything, no reason to be ashamed losing to Shogun when he came out looking that good.


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## elardo (Jul 8, 2007)

I don't think that they fed Liddell to Rua at all. I think that with Rua's recent fights, it was the best way to build Liddell's position in the division if he had won. Also, even if he retired after a win with Shogun, he would have gone out taking a highly respected fighter with him. But at the same time, since he lost, it was against Shogun Rua. So that's nothing to roll your eyes at. I'm sure Shogun will finally get the UFC treatment now, and get some much deserved respect.

Shogun looked great. And I could be wrong, but I think he also finished Chuck faster than anyone except Rampage. I have the UFC 2009 Undisputed demo code in front of me, so there will be at least 30 more Chuck vs. Shogun fights for me tonight. Shogun/Liddell reminded me of Jackson/Liddell 2. I hope that Shogun follows Rampages path. He already got the Griffin loss out of the way. Let's hope to see a Shogun/Rampage 2.


----------



## chilo (May 27, 2007)

what was sad is that everyone and their mother wrote shogun off right when they heard this fight was going on.

WAR SHOGUN!


----------



## DropKicker (Apr 16, 2009)

OMG... this has got to be crybaby post of the year... your poster boy chuck got destroyed.... build a bridge & get over it...


----------



## Tepang (Sep 17, 2008)

He should fight 1 more time, against another old guy. But please dont make it the main event.


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## elardo (Jul 8, 2007)

I jumped on my bar stool with my hands raised when he caught Liddell with that left. Shogun has been on the highs and lows, and is heading back into the highs again. He's going to be stronger than ever.


----------



## TheBrickhouse (Mar 27, 2008)

I sig bet on SHOGUN and even said that if he lost I would never post again! I knew he would show up tonight! He has gone through so much with the knee operations and layoffs but a true champ gets back up when he's down and out and no one gives him a shot! WAR SHOGUN!!!


----------



## Chipper (May 22, 2008)

I feel the same like its evident he is never gonna win the title or even be in contention for it again but I can see that he loves fighting. 

I think the UFC should give him a can to fight so he can say goodbye properly. Only problem is if he gets beat by the can then its gonna suck even more. I'd just like to see Chuck go out on a win.

Dana looked ******* sad too.


----------



## DropKicker (Apr 16, 2009)

I still have my train ticket from back in his pride dominating days... as a matter of fact I don't sit with the regular passengers... I have my own first class suite on the train...


----------



## e-thug (Jan 18, 2007)

Pretty poor excuse, Liddell was beat fair and square.

Just be nice to see some Liddell love around hear though, he may have lost but ya gotta think that this quite possibly was the last time we shall see him fight...A sad site for me and id imagine a sad site for alot of others.


----------



## chilo (May 27, 2007)

The Dark Knight said:


> *There are plenty of other fighter's who'll expose Shogun. Just you wait.* He will NEVER become champion. He won't even be a contender. He'll get schooled sooner or later. Jardine would have him, an UNINJURED Quinton would have, Rashad would eat him for breakfast, Forrest would rip him another arsehole - again and even the rookie Ryan Bader would batter the living daylights out of him. Shogun ain't nowt.


just like chuck was suppose to, huh?


rashad just got lucky in the chuck fight.


----------



## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

Poor Chuck man. Props to Shogun, he looked good.


----------



## bigaza (Feb 10, 2007)

i hate to say it but chuck should hang it up


----------



## elardo (Jul 8, 2007)

I'd say bittersweet. He did go out against a "return to form" Shogun Rua, who was thought to be the best in the weight class 2 years ago. Sad would have been Chuck going out on a loss to Mark Coleman or some guy that has never been ranked in the top 5 even. They both fought a hell of a fight, and didn't give an inch. I'm biased as a Shogun fan, but I don't think that Chuck looked bad. I guess ideally, him retiring with the belt or after a big win would have been the best scenario. But, he kept fighting top guys and passed the torch instead of letting it fizzle out.


----------



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

I always had lopve for Chuck but he doesnt have it any more. He is rich, famous, time to hang it up.

The fight was never really in doubt. I said to my friends one minute into the fight Shogun is going to knock him out. And it happened. Thanks for the memories Chuck, dont be a Ken Shamrock and go out with pride.


----------



## TheBrickhouse (Mar 27, 2008)

UFCFAN18 said:


> First of all I would like to say hats off to Jdun Brickhouse and any other hardcore Shogun fans. Shogun looked great tonight he finshed Liddell and he was sure as hell not the Shogun that showed up at UFC 93.
> 
> Who here has watched Chuck Liddell for many years?? Who here has not missed a fight? Who here has enjoyed many of them?? I know I have and it's a sad day when even I will say Chuck Liddell should retire.
> 
> ...



I feel awesome right now man! This is the fighter that we know from Pride that is all around a machine mma fighter with a huge heart with no fear! 

I really feel like the knee operations just mest everything up for him over the past year and a half! 

Wanderlei supported him but told him to get his ass in shape and take it up a notch and Demian Maia, Sergio Cunha and crew got him in shape at TEAM BRASA and that was the difference he was finally 100% not only physically but mentally as well!

He moved away from distractions at home too and focused 100% on beating Liddell!!! War Shogun this was a great night!


----------



## Bjorn_VZR (Apr 9, 2009)

I wanted Chuck to win but shogun beat him without question. I hope to see ckuck fight again sometime, but don't think he is in the leauge anymore. Looks like dana white new what he was talking about chuck.


----------



## chilo (May 27, 2007)

elardo said:


> I'd say bittersweet. He did go out against a "return to form" Shogun Rua, who was thought to be the best in the weight class 2 years ago. Sad would have been Chuck going out on a loss to Mark Coleman or some guy that has never been ranked in the top 5 even. They both fought a hell of a fight, and didn't give an inch. I'm biased as a Shogun fan, but I don't think that Chuck looked bad. I guess ideally, him retiring with the belt or after a big win would have been the best scenario. But, he kept fighting top guys and passed the torch instead of letting it fizzle out.


 i agree, chuck did hang in there and bang knuckles. im just glad shogun beat him in the way he did cause know everyones gonna know him (shogun) in the UFC.

oh by the way this made me laugh



> Originall Posted by *Emericanaddict* My friend Liddell and Rua could not be much more different from each other as fighters.
> 
> Liddell is a counter puncher who kickboxes.
> Shogun runs forward swinging and throwing what some people for some reason call his Muay Thai skills (or lack their of)
> ...


----------



## AmEagle (Jun 13, 2007)

2005 called, and they want Shogun back.


----------



## Chipper (May 22, 2008)

shogun vs winner of forrest and silva.


----------



## chilo (May 27, 2007)

deanmzi said:


> Shogun just went after him with that big left - its like Chuck doesn't have very good eye sight - *almost repeat of Evans *- maybe they give him an easy opponent and let him go out with a victory, but can't ever see him again competing against contenders


dont even say that, rashad got lucky against chuck, shogun didn't... nuff said.


----------



## AdRath (Nov 16, 2006)

Man I felt bad for Chuck in the press conference... The journalists were not kind. Sad to see Chuck hang it up on that note but lets not forget the guy is a legend and every hero gets old. Good luck and well wishes Chuck in your new role with the UFC whatever it may be.


----------



## 6toes (Sep 9, 2007)

This fight was just depressing. Throughout the whole fight I just couldn't shake the feeling that Chuck would get KO'd...and when it happened there was no shock on my face or any other face in the room. It still sucked to see it happen again, though.

Chuck looked decent but his days of dominating elite fighters is certainly behind him. I still think there's plenty of fighters in the UFC that Chuck could work but I think he'd be better of just preserving his legacy and hanging up the gloves now. WAR ICEMAN


----------



## AdRath (Nov 16, 2006)

6toes said:


> I think he'd be better of just preserving his legacy and hanging up the gloves now. WAR ICEMAN


It isn't his choice... And as far as I heard the words from Dana's mouth tonight Chuck is essentially retired. Last fight in the Octagon.


----------



## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

I missed the live press conference, I am still waiting for them to load it on UFC.com. What did Chuck say?


----------



## 6toes (Sep 9, 2007)

AdRath said:


> It isn't his choice... And as far as I heard the words from Dana's mouth tonight Chuck is essentially retired. Last fight in the Octagon.


Well it's probably for the best then, I want to see Chuck go back in the octagon and knock some fool's head off again but I don't think I could handle another fight like tonight. I think I'll try and check out the post-fight conference if I can but we'll see if my internet will cooperate.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

chilo said:


> dont even say that, *rashad got lucky against chuck*, shogun didn't... nuff said.


Muahahahahahahaha!11!!!!


----------



## AdRath (Nov 16, 2006)

6toes said:


> I think I'll try and check out the post-fight conference if I can but we'll see if my internet will cooperate.


I wish I had of taped it while I was there but the press sure wasn't nice to Chuck. I mean the guy left part way through. Also check out where Dana said A. Silva is the Best P4P and GSP is 2nd with Fedor at a snack bar somewhere in Russia. Zing.


----------



## Outcold (Mar 18, 2009)

This fight should have been the main event, man it was great to see Shogun return to form.


----------



## enochian (Oct 19, 2007)

GodlyMoose said:


> I had a very vivid and detailed dream last night of Shogun winning in dominating fashion. I take this as an omen of what's to come.


wow... :thumbsup:


----------



## Combat Soul (Oct 2, 2008)

Oh yes what did I say boys, Shogun will retire Chuck.

Nearly everyone on here was 'Iceman TKO round 2'. There were just a handful of people that were backing Rua. The signs were there, I think the Chuck fans let their head rule their hearts there was no way he was winning that fight.

Sorry Chuck but you are a legend and a great Champion but your time has been and gone you need to stop before you get hurt or make a Shamrock of yourself.

No MMA fan wants to watch a hall of famer carry on getting put down, it is sad to watch.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

*What did think of Chucks performance?*

I think Chuck and Shogun were putting on a great fight. Shogun was winning an exciting and competitive 1st round in my opinion. I rewatched the TKO like 20 times and I see how Chuck got caught with that hook. Shogun faked a right punch and as soon as Liddell reacted, Shogun through a left hook. Chuck actually landed his counter punch right on Shoguns face before Shogun knocked him to the ground. I don't know much about striking technique so maybe somebody who really knows what they are talking about can fill me in. Did Chuck make an error? Was his footwork off? Or maybe it was just a great punch from Shogun that couldn't be avoided? Watch it again and tell me what you think.

Props to Chuck for being my favorite fighter and getting me into MMA and props to Shogun for being a respectful competitor.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

in my eyes i thought chuck and shogun looked great but indeed in fact that was a great punch from shogun. it wasn't no lucky rashad evans bullsh!t thats for sure.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

chilo said:


> in my eyes i thought chuck and shogun looked great but indeed in fact that was a great punch from shogun. it wasn't no lucky rashad evans bullsh!t thats for sure.


Mmmm you criticise the blgo writer for bolding Shoguns win against Coleman but you say Rashads win against Chuck was lucky??? :confused03:


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

i cried tonight.... i did.... i love me some chuck!

but i still dont see shogun as a top man in the ufc... i still think forrest beats him, and i dont see him beating rashaad... even thought i dislike rashaad......



i miss old chuck knockin fools out....


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## Cartheron (Sep 5, 2007)

chilo said:


> in my eyes i thought chuck and shogun looked great but indeed in fact that was a great punch from shogun. it wasn't no lucky rashad evans bullsh!t thats for sure.


There is no luck.


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## Can.Opener (Apr 8, 2009)

Like Chuck said after the fight "it didnt feel right".. and it showed. He didn't look sharp or menacing and although picking him to win, a minute into the fight I knew I'd made the wrong choice.

I'm a huge Chuck fan and hope he makes the sensible decision and moves on.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Can.Opener said:


> Like Chuck said after the fight "it didnt feel right".. and it showed. He didn't look sharp or menacing and although picking him to win, a minute into the fight I knew I'd made the wrong choice.
> 
> I'm a huge Chuck fan and hope he makes the sensible decision and moves on.


You can pretty much tell hes not gonna move on, I think he would have said it. Maybe hell move over to strikeforce and get the title over there.


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

I love me some Chuck but it is what it is he lost fair and square. He just cannot take those punches at all anymore and I think this really limits his abiity to compete. Chuck looked great until that punch and really showed he still had great skills still but man it seems like any punch that get's through can put him away now and it sucks to say that. 

Congrats to shogun and thanks for being a fantastic sport after th finish. I aswell think it might actually be time for Chuck to hang'em up...he has nothing elft to prove he truly is a legend of the sport.



Combat Soul said:


> Oh yes what did I say boys, Shogun will retire Chuck.
> 
> Nearly everyone on here was 'Iceman TKO round 2'. There were just a handful of people that were backing Rua. The signs were there, I think the Chuck fans let their head rule their hearts there was no way he was winning that fight.
> 
> ...


Not to downplay Shoguns win but seriously I dont know that this says as much about Shogun being a better fighter (which i would still disagree with) as much as it says about Chuck's chin. 

He just can't seem to take any semi powerful shot these days. I think in all the technical areas Chuck is still a much better fighter than most in the LHW divison...He just can't eat these shots anymore sadly.

Congrats to Shogun it was a good win and good luck to Chuck no matter what he decides to do with his future. I was glad Shogun was so classy afterwards.



chilo said:


> i agree, chuck did hang in there and bang knuckles. im just glad shogun beat him in the way he did cause know everyones gonna know him (shogun) in the UFC.
> 
> oh by the way this made me laugh


Im glad it made you laugh but the fact is it's all still True. None of Shogun's style has changed. He still isn't a technical fighter and is sloppy as hell. Chuck just cannot take punches anymore and that is all that can be said. 

I don't think anyone would have predicted Chuck's chin was this bad these days but it is I guess and that's all there is to say.

No need to be a bitch about and try to make others look bad. We all have to make our picks one way or another and I did so logically based on Chuck. The chin just ain't there anymore sadly... Ohwell Congrats to Shogun and thanks to him for being classy. Which cannot really be said about you.

It's sad when the fighters or more classy than their fans. I may have been wrong about the outcome of the fights but nothing I said in that post besides the outcome was incorrect.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

GodlyMoose said:


> I had a very vivid and detailed dream last night of Shogun winning in dominating fashion. I take this as an omen of what's to come.


Let me know if you have any more prognostications of upcoming fights. I was betting on Shogun cuz the odds were good plus he's never been knocked out before. My thoughts were simple. First round goes to Shogun if it went to 2nd or third then it would definitely favor Ice Man. Chuck is just a step slow. That knockout was VERY reminiscent of the one against Rampage. Footwork and speed just isn't there anymore. It's really not a secret. It aint just Chuck. Wanderlei, Big Nog, Randy, Frank Shamrock, etc. Time and age catches up. As much as I want to see Chuck bang some more, there comes a point where he has to keep his legacy intact. He's done enough for the sport. It's certainly a passing of the new guard. If Shogun can keep this up we got some exciting match ups. For some reason I see Joe Silva sicking Jardine to em or maybe even Brandon Vera. Maybe skip them and go directly to the loser of the Machida and Evans fight then onto contender status. A rematch against Griffin would be nice down the line along with Rampage.


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## Darkwraith (Jun 4, 2008)

I don't think he looked great, He was moving ok, but something just seemed off. YOu think it was Dana's statement about this possibly being his last fight was in the back of his mind? I dunno. I lost a few credits on him because i can never bet against my boy.


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## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

Father time has caught up with him. Thats all there is to it. He's not as sharp as he once was, he cant take a punch like he could before, and the most telltale sign of his age is his waist. Over the years he's gradually looked flabbier and saggy around the gut, and lastnight, he had the body of an old man.

Really sad to see Chuck's career go this way, but we dont need to see him turn into Ken Shamrock.
He has nothing to be ashamed of, nothing to prove, we all know that in his day, he was the most fearsome striker in the cage, and a great champion


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## Racerboy44 (Jun 24, 2007)

He looked slow and old. Time for him to retire before he ends up in the hospital for the rest of his life. I love Chuck but lets be honest about his performance. It did not look good and I'm still in doubt about where Shogun sits on the fighter ladder now because this fight didn't give us much to go on.


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## DropKicker (Apr 16, 2009)

The real reason Chuck lost is not because of a poor performance. Chuck was doing everything fine, fighting like the how he always have been. Even in his hay days he was performing the same way. But that's the problem. Did we see new tricks out of Chuck like Hackleman said? No, saddly all I saw was a very predictable one demensional fighter in Chuck. Sprawls & brawls. He had the chance to wear out Shogun with some ground & pound but he didn't. He thought he could knock out Shogun standing. Shogun came in with some wicked striking mixing it up good with kicks & punches. Not to mention his foot & head movements improved from his last 2 fights by leaps & bounds! It's simple he outstruck & beat Chuck's bread & butter in the stand up.


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

The Lone Wolf said:


> Father time has caught up with him. Thats all there is to it. He's not as sharp as he once was, he cant take a punch like he could before, and the most telltale sign of his age is his waist. Over the years he's gradually looked flabbier and saggy around the gut, and lastnight, he had the body of an old man.
> 
> Really sad to see Chuck's career go this way, but we dont need to see him turn into Ken Shamrock.
> He has nothing to be ashamed of, nothing to prove, we all know that in his day, he was the most fearsome striker in the cage, and a great champion


 100% This.

Chuck was a great fighter, and is still a decent one. He helped to put a face on the sport of MMA, but when you compete at the very highest levels of any sport, there is a very fine line between victory and defeat. Chuck is just a little slower, and little easier to hurt, and that's all it takes to go from great to just ok.

He sounded pretty down after the fight, so I hope he does the right thing and retires while his legacy is intact.


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## unclehulka13 (Nov 17, 2008)

Shogun_Is_Champ said:


> Haha, I like you bandwagonning ****, even when Shogun destroys your MMA posterboy, you can't give Shogun his credit. Get Chuck and Rampage's nuts out of your face and open your eyes. SHOGUN IS BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I don't think you comprehend the term bandwagon. 
IF i were a bandwagon fan, i would have jumped and cheered for Rua after he won. 
I'm not sure what Page has to do with this either, your post is all over the place.

I'll have him credit, he beat an aging Liddell. He barely beat an aging Coleman. 
All the excuses of surgeries is a joke. If he wasn't healthy against Coleman/Forrest, then he shouldn't have fought them.

Rua still isn't a top 5 LHW.


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## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

The best way to express my feelings about Shogun's victory is to quote Ric Flair: WOOOOOOO!!!:thumb02:

PRIDE>UFC baby!(I know, I know I'm :sarcastic07


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## RaisingCajun (Jun 22, 2008)

The Lone Wolf said:


> Father time has caught up with him. Thats all there is to it. He's not as sharp as he once was, he cant take a punch like he could before, and the most telltale sign of his age is his waist. Over the years he's gradually looked flabbier and saggy around the gut, and lastnight, he had the body of an old man.
> 
> Really sad to see Chuck's career go this way, but we dont need to see him turn into Ken Shamrock.
> He has nothing to be ashamed of, nothing to prove, we all know that in his day, he was the most fearsome striker in the cage, and a great champion



Great post! 

Great fighters have a hard time hanging it up and rightfully so. They were on top for so long and when there career starts going south, I feel they want to do all they can to go out on top.

We are seeing this exact thing happening with Matt Hughes right now. Love him or hate him, he was one of the best of all time. His fight against Serra is his last attempt to go out on top. 

I see Chuck coming back for one more fight. I am not sure who that person would be but I know it will not be a top contender. Dana will give him a good chance to go out on top as well.


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## GodlyMoose (May 20, 2007)

Man, where's Duncan? We had a sig bet on this, I need to make him put something hilariously embarrassing in his signature.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

RaisingCajun said:


> Great post!
> 
> Great fighters have a hard time hanging it up and rightfully so. They were on top for so long and when there career starts going south, I feel they want to do all they can to go out on top.
> 
> ...


I'd love to see that, and if they're as good of friends as Dana says, then it should become a reality.


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## Slick_Fugitive (Oct 15, 2006)

Chuck did great things for the sport but his time is up. I think father time has caught up with him. Having lost 4 of his last 5 fights, I hope he thinks of retiring because he is going to get himself hurt. It is sad to see a former champ stick around too long ... just like Joe Louis. Hang it up, Chuck


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Chuck looked very slow if you ask me, even slower than against Rashad. His footwork (especially after Shogun's leg kicks) and his reflexes were off. He got tagged several times before the KO. His timing and handspeed aren't what they were anymore, diminishing his legendary "KO power".

He showed a few interesting things like the TD and a couple of low leg kicks. The fight was great and you could tell Chuck trained a lot for this fight, but bottom line is Chuck got KO'd again, 3 times in his last 5 fights, and he should hang them up. I strongly believe he will announce his retirement in the next couple of days.


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## Danomac (Oct 15, 2006)

Chuck vs Randy. Loser retires. For good.


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## UFC on VHS (Dec 16, 2008)

It happens to the best fighters time has just caught up to him. It really makes me respect Randy Couture even more.

You can get around losing some of your speed you can get around losing some of your power but if you lose your chin it' over. Look back to the days when Liddell could take a hammer to the face wobble a little bit get back up and be recovered within seconds. It's just not there anymore.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Everyone was talking about how Chuck needs to diversify his striking, he said he was going to but really didn't.

He's a kickboxer, yet in the last 5 fights ive seen very very few kicks. Very disappointing, Chuck has great kicks high and low. He threw a few small ones but went back to punching till the end.

Props to Shogun he looked way better then against Coleman, i just wished Chuck had went back to his old style where he mixed it up more like a kickboxer should, fake some punches then kick, fake some kicks then throw combos those sorts of things i hoped for but it wasn't to be.

He's a true legend, all UFC fighters should give him props because because of him their paycheques and fame are bigger then they would have been had he never came to the UFC imo.

I'll miss Chuck, im going to go re-watch him kicking Tito's ass both fights to make me feel better.


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## Stonewall44 (Oct 19, 2006)

What was up with Liddell's eyes last night? They looked all swollen and puffy even before the fight..


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## tomiE (Nov 17, 2007)

Not to take anything from Shogun great fight, but this fight really didn't answer his cardio problem. Wished it would have gone 3 rounds then the KO. We always knew Shogun was a good striker, and he setups on the takedowns were great. But all of Shogun's first rounds in the UFC has been spectacular then kind of went downhill from there. Awesome fight? Yes, but wished we were able to see what he looked like after the first round. Cheers Shogun for best fight of the night.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

After the first minute or 2 of fighting I said to everyone who I was with, Shogun is going to KHTFO. I could just tell Shogun was way too fast for him and that it was only a matter of time before he unleashed on him. 

Everyone was like what are you talking about its 2 minutes into the fight, why would you say that. Two minutes later Chuck was flatlined on the mat.

To me it just looked like Shogun had too much for Chuck. Too much speed, and too many weapons. Like I said before the fight, he would keep Chuck off balance with leg kicks and the threat of TD's. And thats what happened. Chuck couldnt get comfortable and Shogun was just moving in and out on him. It came down Shogun having too much speed, and too many weapons, thats it.


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

:thumbsdown: gotta hang em up ...brandon vera woulda whooped him yesterday


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

duncanjr said:


> :thumbsdown: gotta hang em up ...brandon vera woulda whooped him yesterday


you realize how pathetic you sound?


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

chilo said:


> you realize how pathetic you sound?


you realise how lame you are ? following me from thread to thread to put your 2 cents in on what i say ? go play in traffic , retard .:confused03:


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

duncanjr said:


> :thumbsdown: gotta hang em up ...brandon vera woulda whooped him yesterday


Brandon Vera is a tough dude, whats ur point :confused03:


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

jdun11 said:


> Brandon Vera is a tough dude, whats ur point :confused03:


too me , hes washed up bigtime . thats my point :confused03:


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Chuck looked bad, Im not trying to take anything away from Shogun but the punch that dropped Liddell didnt look that vicous to me, I think old Chucky has been hit in the head to many times and if he keeps fighting he'll end up getting knocked out by a slight breeze.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Chuck looked bad, Im not trying to take anything away from Shogun but the punch that dropped Liddell didnt look that vicous to me, I think old Chucky has been hit in the head to many times and if he keeps fighting he'll end up getting knocked out by a slight breeze.


nah that punch was fast and hard right on the button.



> you realise how lame you are ? following me from thread to thread to put your 2 cents in on what i say ?


and yea you need to get off your high horse cause im just follow a thread that i posted in.


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

chilo said:


> nah that punch was fast and hard right on the button.


if you think that , your a blind nuthugger , straight up . it was an awkward , almost off balence shot , that would have never dropped liddel a few years ago .


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

duncanjr said:


> if you think that , your a blind nuthugger , straight up . it was an awkward , almost off balence shot , that would have never dropped liddel a few years ago .


haha your a loser. calling it awkward just shows that your in denial that chuck lost. from what i remember shogun fainted the right and threw a left cross and went to follow up with a right kick while chuck was on his way down. there was nothing awkward about it.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

chilo said:


> nah that punch was fast and hard right on the button.



I dont remember it looking like a knock out punch but I was pretty wrecked last night so I could be wrong, I remember being shocked it dropped him though.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

Im not buying into the whole statement of Liddel's " I didnt feel right." Of course he didnt feel right Shogun had his timing off and was countering like a mofo.. I don't nec think that Liddel's out of his prime as much as fighters have evolved and he hasn't. Either way I think its funny that Dana is pushing him to retirement and wanting to give him a job so he doesn't get cut and picked up by other orgs..


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

Toxic said:


> I dont remember it looking like a knock out punch but I was pretty wrecked last night so I could be wrong, I remember being shocked it dropped him though.


well tbh it didn't Knock him out even for a split second, it just dropped him and rattled his dome. thats the kinda punch it was, the one that just drops opponents to their asses. only thing was that chuck was still dazed from it when shogun pounced on him and started landing hammer fist.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

It didn't just drop him, it also badly hurt him.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

chilo said:


> well tbh it didn't Knock him out even for a split second, it just dropped him and rattled his dome. thats the kinda punch it was, the one that just drops opponents to their asses. only thing was that chuck was still dazed from it when shogun pounced on him and started landing hammer fist.


Yeah, I know he wasnt right out, question though was I the only one who thought Shogun was dropping those hammer fists right to the back of the head? Im sure he wasnt worried about a point deduction but they were pretty questionable IMO.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

Liddel needed change his stance more then anything.. His open guard with his chin up on a aging chin is not a good idea.. You can only have a stone chin for so long ..


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

No they were mostly to the side of the head, out of 7, the last 1 or 2 hit the back and that's when Chuck turned his head.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

Toxic said:


> Yeah, I know he wasnt right out, question though was I the only one who thought Shogun was dropping those hammer fists right to the back of the head? Im sure he wasnt worried about a point deduction but they were pretty questionable IMO.


i counted those to the back of the head and only 2 landed there (i think the 3rd and last one he threw hit the back of chucks head), all the others were to the side of the head.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Shogun was dropping those hammer fists right to the back of the head? .


When in live action I thought so.. But after a replay or 2 now they wherent . the last one was grazing but thats about it.


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## DragonStriker (Feb 11, 2009)

I thought he was doing ok until he got caught.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

LOL the angle of this replay shows a differnt story lol.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

Chuck looked good, kept his hands up for once and moved well. But as many have said already, something just seemed off. When he went for straights and overhands it seemed like he didn't pack much power in there, and Shogun was blocking them rather easily.

I like Chuck Liddell, and it will pain me to see him go, but it's what's best for him.


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## tomjones (Mar 18, 2007)

Chuck Liddell is a great fighter, but hes getting caught by guys who have fast hands and good striking skills. Chuck became such a dominant force because he was hard to take down in a time when not many guys had were good standing up and good at grappling. Randy was a decent striker but was too slow for Chuck standing up in their last two fights. Anytime Chuck was faced with a good striker he got tagged, even back in the day.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

ZENKI1 said:


> When in live action I thought so.. But after a replay or 2 now they wherent . the last one was grazing but thats about it.


Thanks, repped.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

tomjones said:


> Chuck Liddell is a great fighter, but hes getting caught by guys who have fast hands and good striking skills. Chuck became such a dominant force because he was hard to take down in a time when not many guys had were good standing up and good at grappling. Randy was a decent striker but was too slow for Chuck standing up in their last two fights. Anytime Chuck was faced with a good striker he got tagged, even back in the day.


Ill have to agree with you some.. Guy Metzger was really taking it to him some in there bout back in Pride.. I jus think Liddel hasn't evolved any and with age weaking chin and evolving fighters around him its finally caught up to him.. 

Thanks toxic.


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

The way Chuck got finished really reminded me of his second fight with Rampage. 

I think Chuck looked good, his take down defense was great and he was able to take Rua down. He just can't seem to take a shot that well. 

Shogun looked absolutely awesome though. He took some big shots from Liddell too. 

I wanted Chuck to pull this off just because I didn't wanna see him go yet.

I've been a big fan of Rua since Pride and its really great to see him back in shape. THIS is the Shogun we've been waiting for.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

I just watched the fight again. It looked like the first round of Apollo Creed vs. Rocky Balboa. A fabulously skilled fighter, with exceptional skills, light on his feet, and lightning quick reflexes, versus a beer hall brawler. 

And as far as Chuck's punching power, that's gone too. Chuck caught Shogun with several left jabs, as well a nice elbow as he was on his way up from a takedown, and Shogun was completely unaffected. _As was the case with Rashad_, Shogun seemed to gain more confidence, bouncing on his feet, after taking a lick or two from Liddell.

*Conclusion:*
1. *Chuck's punching power is gone.*

*2. It doesn't matter if Chuck keeps his hands up or not at this point, since his reflexes are too slow. 

3. His one dimensional game is overshadowed by the multi-dimensional mixed martial artists standing at the top of the LHW division. *

He must retire NOW. What's next for Chuck? A first round KO by Mike Patt? Please, the MMA world is begging you to leave the octagon a LEGEND.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

I thought the coolest thing Shogun did was his transition to the leg lock. Most guys would have been caught by that.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

michelangelo said:


> I just watched the fight again. It looked like the first round of Apollo Creed vs. Rocky Balboa. A fabulously skilled fighter, with exceptional skills, light on his feet, and lightning quick reflexes, versus a beer hall brawler.
> 
> And as far as Chuck's punching power, that's gone too. Chuck caught Shogun with several left jabs, as well a nice elbow as he was on his way up from a takedown, and Shogun was completely unaffected. _As was the case with Rashad_, Shogun seemed to gain more confidence, bouncing on his feet, after taking a lick or two from Liddell.
> 
> ...


on a side note shogun has never been knocked out in his MMA career.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Emericanaddict said:


> Not to downplay Shoguns win but seriously I dont know that this says as much about Shogun being a better fighter (which i would still disagree with) as much as it says about Chuck's chin.
> 
> He just can't seem to take any semi powerful shot these days. I think in all the technical areas Chuck is still a much better fighter than most in the LHW divison...He just can't eat these shots anymore sadly.
> 
> ...



Did you not watch the fight or is it just that you never saw Shogun fight before last night?


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## AceofSpades187 (Apr 18, 2009)

vandalian said:


> I thought the coolest thing Shogun did was his transition to the leg lock. Most guys would have been caught by that.


yea ahaha that was sick when Shogun pulled that off but anyways it was a sad night for chuck fans i just hope he retires now:thumbsdown:


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

chilo said:


> on a side note shogun has never been knocked out in his MMA career.


I was jus about to comment that. And if I recall last night early on there was a few blows from chuck that backed Rua up..


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

ZENKI1 said:


> I was jus about to comment that. And if I recall last night early on there was a few blows from chuck that backed Rua up..





chilo said:


> *on a side note shogun has never been knocked out in his MMA career.*


Same could have been said about Paul Jones before UFC 22, Babalu before UFC 40, Horn before UFC 54 and Steve Heath etc. Point being the old Chuck was KO'ing fools for the first time in their career.


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## The Dark Knight (Jun 29, 2008)

Chuck was looking alright until he got caught. Everyone gets caught. Maybe he just needs some much needed time off so he can come back and do a Couture and silence people once and for all. Shogun's a wanker anyhow and another fighter will batter him out of the UFC. I need this guy gone.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

As far as the punch that knocked chuck down... Did chuck make a mistake? was it unavoidable? What could he have done differently to avoid it?


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

michelangelo said:


> I just watched the fight again. It looked like the first round of Apollo Creed vs. Rocky Balboa. A fabulously skilled fighter, with exceptional skills, light on his feet, and lightning quick reflexes, versus a beer hall brawler.
> 
> And as far as Chuck's punching power, that's gone too. Chuck caught Shogun with several left jabs, as well a nice elbow as he was on his way up from a takedown, and Shogun was completely unaffected. _As was the case with Rashad_, Shogun seemed to gain more confidence, bouncing on his feet, after taking a lick or two from Liddell.
> 
> ...


Great post man Inever noticed you on this forum beofre but from now on I will pay attention to your posts. Good stuff :thumb02:

Shogun clearly gained confidence after he knew what Chuck had, and you could see it. 

The Ali shuffle thing he did was very much like Apollo lol Anyone got a gif of that? Thats when I knew the "Old Shogun" was back, and Chuck was in trouble.



The Dark Knight said:


> Chuck was looking alright until he got caught. Everyone gets caught. Maybe he just needs some much needed time off so he can come back and do a Couture and silence people once and for all. Shogun's a wanker anyhow and another fighter will batter him out of the UFC. I need this guy gone.


A wanker? Dude how long u been watchin mma? Probably since Bisping bursted on the MMA scene, which means you dont know Shogun.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Edit button, baby!

If you're not going to rock the avy of the chick in the rainbow thong anymore, the least you can do is use your edit button. kthxbai


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## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

diablo5597 said:


> As far as the punch that knocked chuck down... Did chuck make a mistake? was it unavoidable? What could he have done differently to avoid it?


Chuck is just getting older. He's lost the snap of his wrist and the speed in his delivery. 

He's a far more successful Shonie Carter at this point. Very entertaining, can still pull off an upset, but just doesn't have it anymore.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Oh man. Ohhhh man. This hurts.

I am a Chuck fan, but not a nuthugger, so I have to attempt to process what is painful but possibly true.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

No one seems to know what the hell to do with Chuck now........:sign04:


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

As a fight fan, you've got to ask yourself: how many times do you want to see Liddell lying on his back on the ground, prone and prostrate, after his legs have turned into wet noodles after yet another finishing blow?

This is getting sad and old, and Dana White is keen on protecting his good friend from further injury. Sad thing is, Chuck will almost certainly fight again. He really has not diversified, or attempted to do so in other areas of sports, entertainment or finance. He's addicted to the fight game and I fear he could wind up another Ken Shamrock.


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## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

When Dana said Chuck will have a job with the company in some sort of capacity I wonder what it will be. He isn't much of a talker, so commentating is probably out, security? lol


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

ZENKI1 said:


> I was jus about to comment that. And if I recall last night early on there was a few blows from chuck that backed Rua up..


 there were a few exchanges that had shogun backing up, but i dont think shogun was ever in any trouble. he even threw a right high kick in one of the exchanges to back chuck off and i dont think chuck was expecting that cause it work for shogun.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

OK, I often play devil's advocate for Dana when the haters get up on him, but I really don't think it was cool the way he's trying to make the call on Chuck's retirement.
I mean, seriously, let the guy announce his own freakin' retirement.


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## ZENKI1 (Apr 19, 2009)

chilo said:


> there were a few exchanges that had shogun backing up, but i dont think shogun was ever in any trouble. he even threw a right high kick in one of the exchanges to back chuck off and i dont think chuck was expecting that cause it work for shogun.


Shogun played it smart.. Hes got brutal kicks and attacked early with them.. Liddel had a slight limp right away from a few of them. Which more then likely took some punching power away..



vandalian said:


> OK, I often play devil's advocate for Dana when the haters get up on him, but I really don't think it was cool the way he's trying to make the call on Chuck's retirement.
> I mean, seriously, let the guy announce his own freakin' retirement.


I can't agree more..


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

*Pros reactions to Chuck's retirement*


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## chuck fan (russ) (Nov 13, 2006)

All this talk about Chucks training with a new camp to learn him to keep up that left hand was total bs and he couldn't even maintain it for 5 minutes. 

Although i have got to admit Shogun came out well and had Liddell beat in that first round i was just hoping chuck could test his cardio into the 2nd and 3rd. Instead Chuck peformed his new signature move the 'low left arm getting dropped manoeuvre' he seems to be working hard on that lately but not alot else. 

Its hard to see the fighter that brought you into mma perform so poorly but as for the retirement its Chuck's decision not Dana's, so Dana can F*** right off. I think Chuck should fight a few more lower tier fights and then he can decide eventually when hes ready to retire.


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## tecnotut (Jan 2, 2007)

tecnotut said:


> People are writing off Shogun too soon, and I'm not really a fan of either of these fighters. I think Liddell is more one-dimensional than Shogun. It's been said Shogun's style is perfect for Liddell's KO style.
> 
> However, let me remind you people something. Liddell has NOT KO'ed anyone since 2003, and he has NOT TKO'ed anyone since the end of 2006. The biggest wildcard here is Shogun's cardio. If Shogun's cardio is par or above par, then I think Liddell will lose.


This quote was posted five days before the fight.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Interesting that you'd include Sakuraba in the above list. If there's a guy who doesn't know when to quit...


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## IndependentMOFO (Feb 23, 2009)

As always, the injured fighter comes back to form and enjoys everyone jumping on his bandwagon. 

I've said it before, and I'll always say it. 
WAR SHOGUN.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

IndependentMOFO said:


> As always, the injured fighter comes back to form and enjoys everyone jumping on his bandwagon.
> 
> I've said it before, and I'll always say it.
> WAR SHOGUN.


Guess we'll have to take your word on that.

Shogun wins, and the original, "real" Shogun fans start coming out of the woodwork.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

I can honestly say I was not expecting a first round KO win from Shogun. I wasnt sure if we would ever see the real Shogun again, so I thought he could only win this by decision. But in hindsight, if I had known 05 Shogun was fighting 09 Chuck. Im pretty sure I woulda predicted a Rua KO, but who knew?? I dont think anyone. I expected a better Shogun, but he was even better than I had hoped for.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

IndependentMOFO said:


> As always, the injured fighter comes back to form and enjoys everyone jumping on his bandwagon.
> 
> I've said it before, and I'll always say it.
> WAR SHOGUN.


Dude, you joined two months ago. You can't lay claim to anyhting.



jdun11 said:


> I can honestly say I was not expecting a first round KO win from Shogun. I wasnt sure if we would ever see the real Shogun again, so I thought he could only win this by decision. But in hindsight, if I had known 05 Shogun was fighting 09 Chuck. Im pretty sure I woulda predicted a Rua KO, but who knew?? I dont think anyone. I expected a better Shogun, but he was even better than I had hoped for.


Yup, and people are gonna say oh "Chucks chin sucks" and "It didn't go out of the first round" blah blah blah.

Shogun looked excellent. He kept his hands up, he was throwing tight, he moved his head a lot, he backed up at the right times........these are all HUGE improvements for Shogun.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

the shogun lovers are gonna come out now in full force......they should...they guy looked reallly good...........OR does Chuck just look that bad??????:confused02:


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## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

coldcall420 said:


> the shogun lovers are gonna come out now in full force......they should...*they guy looked reallly good*...........OR does Chuck just look that bad??????:confused02:


The correct statement.


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## IndependentMOFO (Feb 23, 2009)

TheNegation said:


> Dude, you joined two months ago. You can't lay claim to anyhting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dude, just because I joined two months ago doesn't mean I know how MMA fans on internet forums act, let alone my knowledge of MMA in general. 

I spent a great deal of time on the sherdog forums, so trust me, I'm familiar with the bandwagon jumping. I'm not saying everyone does it, there are of course, exceptions.


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