# steve-mazzagatti-is-the-worst-ref-in-history!!!!



## Pr0d1gy (Sep 25, 2006)

http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/07/14/dana-white-steve-mazzagatti-is-the-worst-ref-in-history/

Look man, Rothwell was catching a beatdown, I will be the first to say it, but the fact is that he got stopped while getting up from being taken down. Steve needs to go ref boxing or something. 

And yes, Cain was impressive but he looked to have some huge physical advantages over Rothwell....the kind that Lesnar would have over him, maybe Shane too. I doubt he would want the fight stopped if the shoe was on the other foot.


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

Yeah because no other referee has done a early stoppage right? Ever think about the reason they do it? Maybe it's for the safety of the fighters. I'm just throwing that out there cuz of course Ref's don't care right?


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## Pr0d1gy (Sep 25, 2006)

Devil_Bingo said:


> Yeah because no other referee has done a early stoppage right? Ever think about the reason they do it? Maybe it's for the safety of the fighters. I'm just throwing that out there cuz of course Ref's don't care right?


He does it on every PPV, I mean it's getting ridiculous at this point. When the guy running the organization you get contracted out to says you are awful it just speaks volumes. 

And another thing for all you protecting the fighter nerds out there, if you don't want to get hurt then don't fight for a living.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

I can't comment on any of Steve's other bad stoppages cuz I don't ever pay attention to who's reffing normally but in this case even though it turned out to be a bad stoppage, it was just bad timing. It looked like Rothwell was trapped in that position for a few seconds. He didn't actually get up or start getting up until Steve was already halfway through his stoppage. You could tell on this one that it was totally accidental. Even though it was still technically a bad stoppage, it was just bad luck on Rothwell's and Steve's part. Gotta just file this one into the "shit happens" drawer.

I would hate to see how rowdy people got about this stoppage had Rothwell actually visibly showed any sign of ever doing anything offensively effective in the 6 minutes prior to the stoppage.


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## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

Pr0d1gy said:


> And another thing for all you protecting the fighter nerds out there, if you don't want to get hurt then don't fight for a living.


Ugh, you are a moron. There's a difference between "getting a few bumps and bruises", a fact that I imagine *all* fighters live with, and having your life risked with a late stoppage and unnessecary punishment. Just like someone working on a highrise lives with the daily risk of slips and tumbles but will always strap themselves to a harness because they dont want to fall off a building. 

It's not "manly" to not care about your own wellbeing. I'm not saying the stoppage wasn't early, but your whole attitude is stupid.


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## vaj3000 (Dec 28, 2008)

UFC needs a little credibility judge and ref wise....theres only one man that can do it! Just give big john his license already


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## VICIII (May 31, 2007)

Biowza said:


> but your whole attitude is stupid.



:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumb02::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

It was an unfortunate stoppage but Rothwell has no one to blame but himself.

Watch the fight closely, when Mazzagatti decides to stop it and jumps in, it is before Rothwell gets up, Rothwell just happens to get up at the exact moment the ref stops the fight. 

Before Rothwell gets up, he ate 6 consecutive really strong left hands from Cain that all landed flush on his face, and Rothwell never moved a muscle to defend himself. That is not defending yourself intelligently by anyone's definition. If Rothwell wasn't hurt badly enough to stop, then he sucks so bad they should just stop it anyway and save him the beating. You have to defend yourself intelligently, if you don't, the fight gets stopped. If Rothwell has a problem with the stoppage, he can look in the mirror.


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## Couchwarrior (Jul 13, 2007)

It was early, but at least this was a situation where it was only a matter of time. Rothwell had been in survival mode the whole fight, and there wasn't any reason to believe that he was weathering an early storm since his cardio is probably a lot worse than Cain's. I've seen early stoppages where I had doubts that the same guy would have won had it continued, and this wasn't one of those.


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## Guymay (Jul 6, 2009)

vaj3000 said:


> UFC needs a little credibility judge and ref wise....theres only one man that can do it! Just give big john his license already


i Wish big john and herb dean could ref all the fights in the ufc .


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## Guy (Feb 17, 2008)

How the hell did Cain have a "physical advantage" over Ben?


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## Pr0d1gy (Sep 25, 2006)

Guymay said:


> i Wish big john and herb dean could ref all the fights in the ufc .


I agree 100%, there is another ref that has been coming up lately that is really good, too. These guys get paid millions to get in the ring and fight, let them fight.




Guy said:


> How the hell did Cain have a "physical advantage" over Ben?


*sigh* What is wrong with people on this forum? Seriously, Cain was obviously a far superior athlete to Ben, which is a serious "physical advantage" that far outweighs 30 pounds and a few inches of length. 

Why the hell do I have to explain the simplest of things to people here? And then when I do they call me names, say I'm stupid, etc. while everyone else reading the thread agree with me except for their alternate accounts they use to support their own arguments. It's a joke.


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

He did it for the fighters Safety. Just need to get over it. Not like this is the first time it's ever happened. Just like the Machida and Shogun fight. Get over it.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Pr0d1gy said:


> *sigh* What is wrong with people on this forum? Seriously, Cain was obviously a far superior athlete to Ben, which is a serious "physical advantage" that far outweighs 30 pounds and a few inches of length.
> 
> Why the hell do I have to explain the simplest of things to people here? And then when I do they call me names, say I'm stupid, etc. while everyone else reading the thread agree with me except for their alternate accounts they use to support their own arguments. It's a joke.


That's a bit harsh. Your comment about huge physical advantages did need some explaining. There's no need to get out your soap box just because you were asked a valid question.

And besides, you say Cain had huge physical advantages over Rothwell and also say Lesnar will have the same advantages over Cain. Isn't it obvious people will assume you mean size? You then go on to say you were talking about athleticism, but I don't see how Lesnar or Carwin have even remotely proved that they are superior athletes to Cain. I would say Cain has proven his cardio to be top draw whereas Lesnar and Carwin certainly have not.


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## Pr0d1gy (Sep 25, 2006)

Soojooko said:


> That's a bit harsh. Your comment about huge physical advantages did need some explaining. There's no need to get out your soap box just because you were asked a valid question.
> 
> And besides, you say Cain had huge physical advantages over Rothwell and also say Lesnar will have the same advantages over Cain. Isn't it obvious people will assume you mean size? You then go on to say you were talking about athleticism, but I don't see how Lesnar or Carwin have even remotely proved that they are superior athletes to Cain. I would say Cain has proven his cardio to be top draw whereas Lesnar and Carwin certainly have not.


So I need to explain to you that Cain is actually NOT bigger than Rothwell but, in fact, much faster and stronger? Maybe that is the problem in this forum, you all think you're smarter than everyone else. Here's a clue people, Steven Hawking doesn't watch MMA. You aren't smart, knowing about MMA doesn't make you smart, and coming here and looking to belittle other people to make yourself feel smart only shows how ignorant someone is.


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## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

Definitly not the worst stoppage ever. Sure it was early and Cain didnt get the clear cut finnish he wanted but in my eyes Mazzagati was thinking about how people said the Kongo fight SHOULD have been stopped and just reacted to that. It's a gaff yes but I forgive him he was only looking out for Rothwell.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Pr0d1gy said:


> So I need to explain to you that Cain is actually NOT bigger than Rothwell but, in fact, much faster and stronger? Maybe that is the problem in this forum, you all think you're smarter than everyone else. Here's a clue people, Steven Hawking doesn't watch MMA. You aren't smart, knowing about MMA doesn't make you smart, and coming here and looking to belittle other people to make yourself feel smart only shows how ignorant someone is.


You just wrote a paragraph doing nothing but trolling and answering zilch.

How about replying to my whole post. How do Lesnar and Carwin show huge speed, strength and cardio advantages over Cain?


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## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

:thumb02::thumbsup:


vaj3000 said:


> UFC needs a little credibility judge and ref wise....theres only one man that can do it! Just give big john his license already


I will second that


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## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

Pr0d1gy said:


> I agree 100%, there is another ref that has been coming up lately that is really good, too. These guys get paid millions to get in the ring and fight, let them fight.


Yes, they are paid to fight. Not kill and injure each other. It's meant to be a test of skill remember? Not some bar room brawl. You seem to have the attitude that premature stoppages are the worst thing to ever happen to MMA.



vaj3000 said:


> UFC needs a little credibility judge and ref wise....theres only one man that can do it! Just give big john his license already


Remind me again what the UFC has to do with choosing refs and judges?


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

Maz has screwed up before, so people will always criticize him a lot more. Man, it must be tough for him to be the ref knowing that the majority of people think he is terrible at his job! 

Its really interesting that he is still the ref for UFC fights after all of the complaints he gets, even from Dana White. You would think that the UFC would be able to step in and have a say in the matter but supposedly that's not the case.

Regarding this fight, Rothwell was getting beaten really bad. Steve could have stopped the fight in the 1st but let him continue, he warned him at the beginning of the 2nd round that he's gonna stop it if Ben doesn't defend himself. 

I suppose Steve could have waited to stop the fight at a different moment, when Rothwell was not in the middle of getting back to his feet....but really, how would that be more important than protecting the fighter from getting seriously harmed? 

Steve has messed up in the past a few times and as a result people will question his every move. In this case, I don't think it was a bad call. Ben was doing nothing to fight back, I don't care what Rogan said in his commentary he was probably baked anyways.


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## sk double i (Apr 13, 2007)

kc1983 said:


> Regarding this fight, Rothwell was getting beaten really bad. Steve could have stopped the fight in the 1st but let him continue, he warned him at the beginning of the 2nd round that he's gonna stop it if Ben doesn't defend himself.
> 
> .


Which is why I wasnt too upset about the stoppage but IMO it shouldve been stopped in the first round. Rothwell was taking too many unanswered blows to the dome but I dont think it was the right time to stop the fight. Mazagatti needs to step down before someone gets seriously hurt.


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## sk double i (Apr 13, 2007)

Pr0d1gy said:


> I agree 100%, there is another ref that has been coming up lately that is really good, too. These guys get paid millions to get in the ring and fight, let them fight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Last time I checked, there are maybe a hanfdul of the 200-230 fighters that are making 7 figures per fight. I also think you missed his point.

I for one wasn't sure what you were talking about when you referenced the physical advantage so it obviously wasn't that simple.


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

sk double i said:


> Which is why I wasnt too upset about the stoppage but IMO it shouldve been stopped in the first round. Rothwell was taking too many unanswered blows to the dome but I dont think it was the right time to stop the fight. Mazagatti needs to step down before someone gets seriously hurt.


For sure. 
Maz is too inconsistent. 
This fight definitely could have been stopped in the 1st.


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## Diokhan (Jul 8, 2008)

I prolly would have stopped it too before I actually watched the replay. 6 or so shots landed in a row right on face with seemingly no reaction from Rothwell (yes I know he was actually about to stand up, but those hits were pretty clear and unanswered still).
I doubt it would have been stopped if fight wasn't almost done already in round one. Problem with shots like that landing in face from heavyweights is that it doesn't take 6 of them to land in a row to possibly end one's career already. 
Early stoppage? Yes
Would I have done same? Most likely

Mazzagatti is known for his early stoppaged, but he gets thumb up from me for this one still.


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## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

MMA Referee Formula: 

(Mazzagatti > Lavigne > Mirgliotta)= sh*t.


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## shatterproof (Jul 16, 2008)

That was a seriously rediculous stoppage. Maz made a terrible call, stopping the fight at that moment. It's the judge's job to decide who wins, not the refs. I imagine Cain would have prefered to have really finished Ben too.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

i think yves lavigne has done way worse.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

i had nothing against the stoppage


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Cmon don't get down on Lavigne, He's only human, but he's one of the best MMA refs on the planet. Mazz sucks pretty bad, but he is just unlikeable in the first place and people are a little harder on him than the rest. I feel bad for him, but he has made the most bad decisions by far.


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## Seperator88 (Jul 12, 2009)

So can anyone tell me exactly why its impossible for Big John to come back, how many stoppage complaints have involved him, not many that i'm aware of.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Biowza said:


> Ugh, you are a moron. There's a difference between "getting a few bumps and bruises", a fact that I imagine *all* fighters live with, and having your life risked with a late stoppage and unnessecary punishment. Just like someone working on a highrise lives with the daily risk of slips and tumbles but will always strap themselves to a harness because they dont want to fall off a building.
> 
> It's not "manly" to not care about your own wellbeing. I'm not saying the stoppage wasn't early, but your whole attitude is stupid.


Stop insulting other members.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

I thought it was a good stoppage.


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## bbfsluva (Oct 18, 2009)

swpthleg said:


> Stop insulting other members.


i'm new to this board, but i thought the whole idea of these forums was to make fun of each other. lol. jk.


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## morninglightmt (Sep 7, 2008)

i was fine with the stoppage, rothwell may as well have been getting mauled by a bear in the ring that night.


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## N1™ (Apr 8, 2007)

bbfsluva said:


> i'm new to this board, but i thought the whole idea of these forums was to make fun of each other. lol. jk.


no thats sherdog


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

N1™ said:


> no thats sherdog


haha definitely!


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Nah, my vote for worst still goes to Big Dan.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Pr0d1gy said:


> I agree 100%, there is another ref that has been coming up lately that is really good, too. These guys get paid millions to get in the ring and fight, let them fight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Really? So Cain had the advantage of training harder than Ben is what you're saying? I feel so enlightened.


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## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

Here's a popular phrase that is often heard but not listened to and actually thought about. "Hindsight is 20/20"

When you see the replay you think to yourself "man, Ben didn't look like he was hurt. He was posting his hand to stand up" but you can't tell me that during the fight you didn't think he was in trouble. Dude was getting whomped hard and was warned between round by Maz that "I can't let you take those kind of shots." Maybe Ben should have been thinking about defending the strikes instead of eating 5 of them to stand up. 

Of course you can say that he wasn't hurt but you only know that after the fact. Steve Mazzagatti's job is to protect the fighters, and that's what he did. Emotions don't matter to the referee, not the fighter's, the fan's, or even his own. He doesn't answer to Rothwell, Cain, You, Me, Dana, or anyone. So all of our collective opinions don't mean shit when the fight is going on.

Do I agree with the stoppage, yes actually. I think it was badly timed, late actually. I feel it should have been stopped in round 1. I figured since he let it go earlier he would have let Ben take those shotas but he did warn the fighter in his corner between rounds. So I don't see it as a bad stoppage.


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

The only reason I can see for people complaining about this stoppage is that they wanted to see Rothwell knocked the **** out. That's wrong because you know he was going to lose that fight. The guy sucks ass, and Cain was schooling him. He's lucky he made it to the 2nd round, he was getting taken down so easily it was pathetic. Cain is also a much smaller guy than him, just a terrible performance.


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## mmamasta (Jan 10, 2008)

Wow, the thread itself doesn't really surprise me, but being this upset over this specific stoppage I'm REALLY surprised about.

I mean it sounds like it's clear that EVERYONE knew Ben was loosing the fight, BADLY, and it was just a matter of time. Not a single person in here is arguing that it shouldn't have been stopped, they're arguing that what? It got stopped a few seconds (gasp, or even a minute) before it was clearly going to.

Now, don't get me wrong, I LOATH Mazza-douchebag, I do think is the worst ref I've EVER seen in MMA (barring reading Got Fight, and hearing about Forrest reffing matches). BUT, this was NOT one of his bad stoppages.

How are you really going to criticize the stoppage when he warned him before the first round was over that if he didn't fight back he was going to stop the fight. Then, he warned him AGAIN in between rounds that he would not let him take that punishment again. He took the same punishment, Steve stopped the fight.

Personally, I chalk this up in the "wow, he actually DIDN'T f*ck this one up" category. Although I see the argument that Big Ben wasn't unconscious when the fight was stopped, he might as well have been. No protection, taking many unanswered shots, and getting _significant_ damage done to him. Fight's over, even our precious Big John would've called that one.


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## locnott (Apr 1, 2009)

N1™ said:


> no thats sherdog


So true.



Also if he had not stopped the fight and cain hurt him for real then everyone would say it was a late stoppage.
The first time someone gets really hurt all the anti-mma haters/media will have a field day trashing the sport and calling for a ban of mma ..I for one would rather see a few fights stopped early than risk a bunch of new rules or some states that might ban it all togather... IMO


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## Lochtsa (Apr 3, 2009)

The stoppage was fair and justified. Ben took too much punishment, and showed nothing that he was going to turn the tide.

Just because he made it up to his feet (via the wall), does not mean he was still able to defend himself from more unanswered blows to the head.

I honestly feel that if I was in his corner, I would have stopped the fight myself after the first round. He had no chance at all in any second of that fight. 

I hate to see careers ended short because they were able to make it to a decision while taking nothing more than a 15 minute beating.

Ben was in LaLa Land before the second round began. If anything it was a late stoppage, dude should not have been allowed off the stool. He was completely outclassed in every facet of the fight.

JMO


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## vaj3000 (Dec 28, 2008)

Biowza said:


> Remind me again what the UFC has to do with choosing refs and judges?


.......thats why i said give Big jhon his license obviously Its the commission and Not the UFC that'll do that


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## ricefarmer (Oct 16, 2006)

Devil_Bingo said:


> Yeah because no other referee has done a early stoppage right? Ever think about the reason they do it? Maybe it's for the safety of the fighters. I'm just throwing that out there cuz of course Ref's don't care right?




i guess u like being cheated out of awesome match then dont you? bad ref's ruin fights moron. and they are fighters and get punched alot all the time.. stop crying for them


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## flexor (Sep 25, 2009)

What would be the point of letting that fight go any further? Watching Rothwell eat 45 shots to the dome? Thats not my idea of a good mma match.

The fight was already over and I got bored in round 1 anyway.

I was gonna fall asleep if they didn't stop it.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Well, Rothwell _was_ getting out. He deserved a chance to keep fighting.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Mazzagati is a terrible ref, but he was stepping in before Rothwell got up. He had made his move to stop that fight a split second before Rothwell started to stand up. It didnt really matter, Rothwell was pretty much done, at least he has something to bitch about so he doesnt look so terrible.


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## Icculus (Oct 4, 2009)

joshua7789 said:


> Mazzagati is a terrible ref, but he was stepping in before Rothwell got up. He had made his move to stop that fight a split second before Rothwell started to stand up. It didnt really matter, Rothwell was pretty much done, at least he has something to bitch about so he doesnt look so terrible.


Yeah mazz was wrong and has been wrong many times in the past.
When reffing a cain fight you have to take in account the fact that cain apparently has pillows for hands. Even when he is in dominant position and wailing away with all his might he doesnt seem to be doing real damage. I have never seen another fighter land so many hard shots without knocking the other guy unconscious.
Cain looked awesome as usual and would have finished him eventually anyway, but mazz should have been able to see that those shots werent hurting him because he was still attempting to standup. If the punches were that devastating big ben would have abandoned the standup attempt and just pulled guard or been KOed trying instead of calmly absorbing them like he was.


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## Devil_Bingo (Jan 12, 2008)

ricefarmer said:


> i guess u like being cheated out of awesome match then dont you? bad ref's ruin fights moron. and they are fighters and get punched alot all the time.. stop crying for them


Yes im a moron because i'd rather see fighter not get injured (possibly permanetly) rather than seeing an awesome fight. It was a great fight anyways. But fighters safety always comes first. And yes i must be crying for them because unlike you people do care about fighters. :thumbsdown:


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## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

vandalian said:


> Well, Rothwell _was_ getting out. He deserved a chance to keep fighting.


Agreed. 



Devil_Bingo said:


> Yes im a moron because i'd rather see fighter not get injured (possibly permanetly) rather than seeing an awesome fight. It was a great fight anyways. But fighters safety always comes first. And yes i must be crying for them because unlike you people do care about fighters. :thumbsdown:


Cain's pillow hands weren't doing much. This wasn't Brown v. Sell.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

I believe you re: the pillow hands Sicilian, because you are knowledgeable, but how does someone as big as Cain throw wimpy hands?


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

swpthleg said:


> I believe you re: the pillow hands Sicilian, because you are knowledgeable, but how does someone as big as Cain throw wimpy hands?


he doesnt throw nothing but he doesnt have big power for a heavyweight. Forrest Griffin doesnt have much power for his size either. I think that is what they mean.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

swpthleg said:


> I believe you re: the pillow hands Sicilian, because you are knowledgeable, but how does someone as big as Cain throw wimpy hands?


Im with Sicilian, I watched Cain's UFC debut last night again and he is completly over whelming Brad Morris landing blow after blow showing tremendous control but doing virtually no damage, same with Kongo, Cain does not throw hard for some reason he is unable to actually hurt an opponent.


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## Sicilian_Esq (Sep 7, 2008)

HitOrGetHit said:


> he doesnt throw nothing but he doesnt have big power for a heavyweight. Forrest Griffin doesnt have much power for his size either. I think that is what they mean.


Thanks for putting it better than me. 

It's not that Cain doesn't hit hard, or can't finish an opponent ala Nelson v. Kimbo, but he'll have to catch a winded opponent with his jaw wide open if he'll ever get a KO.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Thanks guys.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Pr0d1gy said:


> This is my quote for the entire internet community. Goodbye ladies.


 gotta say, pretty ******* epic IMO really made me LOL raise01:raise01:raise01:raise01:


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Who's Prodigy? is that the stuck up bj penn guy?< I can't tell, he's all naked...
Some people just bring the negativity with them wherever they go. This place is pretty positive aside from 3 or 4 guys I could name right now.


Attempting to get on topic so this thread can truely *RIP*:

Here is where I go back and forth,

Maz sucks, but I feel bad for him. He's only human, but I wish he would be reffing less prominent organizations due to the mistakes he's made. UNFORTUNATELY, there are so many bad refs out there that he actually might deserve his place in the UFC.

I feel bad even calling him bad, he's better than 99% of referees.


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## _JB_ (May 30, 2007)




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## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

Seems like he was just tired of Rothwell taking a continous beating and just saw that the same thing was going to happen for the rest of the fight, did anyone think Big Ben was actually even land a punch that fight? But overall he needs to ref undercards or something because I know if he is gonna ref a fight I really don't want to bet on a guy who can survive trouble and still win but on a guy that can put on a flurry that looks good. If he was a fighter he would have been sent to Strikeforce long ago, maybe even they don't want him?:sarcastic10:


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## punchbag (Mar 1, 2010)

Good call, there was a ref at UFC 110 Australia other than Mazagatti, calling a Fighter to carry on after obviously getting a kick to the nuts, didn't even give him the rest time, can't remember who the fighter was, but Rogan mentioned it.
Just an example of why UFC needs to keep hold of the quality refs if it wants to keep it's status as number 1 organisation.


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## vaj3000 (Dec 28, 2008)

JBS said:


>


Ouch what triggered that?


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