# cheapest move in ufc??



## lfaris (Oct 15, 2006)

these moves are legal but imo dirty as hell i would have to say the worse would either be ken flo's elbows or chris leben when he tries to stomp on everyone's feet

honorable mention goes to tim sylvia shitting himself


----------



## untaken_moniker (Sep 28, 2006)

No disrespect dude, but how the f*uck is throwing an elbow dirty? It's part of MMA. That's like saying a high kick to the head is dirty :laugh:


----------



## toraj (Sep 20, 2006)

i think he mean ken florian elbows (and maybe his elbows to sean sherk head)..
elbows are my favorite weapon in MMA, very effective. but sometimes become the reasons that some fights stops soon because of cuts.
and sometimes when they throw one after one it became very cool, like when tanner did to baroni at UFC-45, a few fighters use this method but tanner does it very effective.


----------



## untaken_moniker (Sep 28, 2006)

Hey man, you goal in a fight is to WIN and if you can win by opening up someones face from a nasty elbow, that isn't dirty in my book...no matter who throws 'em.


----------



## toraj (Sep 20, 2006)

Did i told nasty elbows ??
i told sometimes finish the fight soon,..
and told that i love elbows..
read it again..


----------



## untaken_moniker (Sep 28, 2006)

Just because a fight is stopped quickly, from whatever technique, doesn't make it a "dirty" or "cheap" move. Elbows, and foot stomps for that matter are part of the sport and whether and guy finishes a fight in the first round, or the last from opening a cut...that's just mixed martial arts...that's the way it goes. Sometimes it sucks to see a good fight stopped due to a big gash in someones head, but that's how it works my friend.


----------



## toraj (Sep 20, 2006)

if you found a "nasty" word in my first message you will win a FREE IPOD.


----------



## Spartan42 (Sep 25, 2006)

i personally do not like figure four body locks. they are illegal in college wrestling now and they can do serious damage without the victim being able to realize quiote how bad it is. I figure, if you can get the fig 4 body lock, you can easily get a choke from that position so why turn it into a slower more painful process. see fight Ivan Salaverry vs. Tony Fryklund


----------



## untaken_moniker (Sep 28, 2006)

toraj said:


> if you found a "nasty" word in my first message you will win a FREE IPOD.


Huh??


----------



## MickWrath (Oct 30, 2006)

There are some things that I agree with like no kicking a downed opponent in the head, but I think knees to a downed opponents head should be legal. The leverage one has is similar to heavy elbows to the head or standard upright knees at best.


----------



## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

I agree with the threadstarter's picks completely. I'm not going into it again but there's a difference between a KenFlo elbow and an Evan Tanner elbow. KenFlo's elbows are legal and effective, but cheap as hell nonetheless. Leben's foot stomps aren't too bad, but it still is as cheap as pinching or biting. And Sylvia shitting his pants is cheap because it makes your opponent hesitant to touch you.


----------



## MickWrath (Oct 30, 2006)

Is that for real? Did Tim Sylvia really shit his pants? If so against whom?
Thats foul as hell.


----------



## Mc19 (Jul 6, 2006)

There is no such thing as a cheap move. You do what you have to do to win as long as its in the rules. And who ever said elbows are cheap, ever hear of muay thai. Its a huge part of mma.


----------



## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

the elbow... the only reason any fighter in the UFC uses it, is to cut open their opponent to get the fight stopped (not to WIN the fight)... then they cheer like they actually beat the other guy... 

and don't try to tell me otherwise... when the fighter's corner is shouting; "elbows... elbows... cut him open..." that means something...


----------



## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

pt447 said:


> the elbow... the only reason any fighter in the UFC uses it, is to cut open their opponent to get the fight stopped (not to WIN the fight)... then they cheer like they actually beat the other guy...
> 
> and don't try to tell me otherwise... when the fighter's corner is shouting; "elbows... elbows... cut him open..." that means something...


exactly! and that's what KenFlo's cornermen were saying! :thumbsdown:


----------



## j.farrell (Oct 6, 2006)

MickWrath said:


> Is that for real? Did Tim Sylvia really shit his pants? If so against whom?
> Thats foul as hell.


http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc-discuss...ng-himself.html?highlight=tim+sylvia+crapping


----------



## j.farrell (Oct 6, 2006)

Mc19 said:


> There is no such thing as a cheap move. You do what you have to do to win as long as its in the rules. And who ever said elbows are cheap, ever hear of muay thai. Its a huge part of mma.


im all about the elbows, i like to put a little more of the forearm in it like evan tanner. but they teach us in muay thai to use specifically the tip, which is what cuts. i like the foot stomp, i like to knee to the legs in the clinch. some may view me as dirty, i see it as being tactical. i like to beat everything i can. i want guys to never want to fight me again. its all about emposing your will on your opponent. although i have to admit, when a fighter is getting his ass kicked and he then wins on a cut it does piss me off. i dont aim to cut when i throw and elbow, its just a good solid strike when you are in close.


----------



## Spit206Fire (Jul 17, 2006)

I love elbows.


One strong eblow to the side of the temple can KO someone as well.

Example: Evan Tanner!


----------



## fiscomi (Oct 10, 2006)

lfaris said:


> these moves are legal but imo dirty as hell i would have to say the worse would either be ken flo's elbows or chris leben when he tries to stomp on everyone's feet
> 
> honorable mention goes to tim sylvia shitting himself


Did this really happen??? Did Time sylvia really shit himself?


----------



## j.farrell (Oct 6, 2006)

fiscomi said:


> Did this really happen??? Did Time sylvia really shit himself?


http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc-discuss...ng-himself.html?highlight=tim+sylvia+crapping


----------



## kaiser1041 (Oct 7, 2006)

its not illegal or anything but me personally i had when the guy puts his hand over ur mouth to interupt ur breathing which i geuss is just part of the fight game but it bugs the shit out of me


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

*Cheapest Move in MMA*

I do not think elbows or footstomps are the cheap moves in MMA. In my opinion cheap means sitting on top of the other fighter and just waiting for the decision. In my opinion, if you are in a completely dominant position for the whole 15 minutes or how ever long the fight is, you should be able to finish the fight at least most of the time. Now to reveal who I am talking about...obviously Tito Ortiz. Everyone seems to think hes so amazing. Sure he is 15 - 4 - 0. Now lets look at how he won those. Well first off 5 are decisions...so he sat on top of Wanderlai Silva, Patrick Cote, Vitor Belfore (split), Forrest Griffin (Split), and Vladimir Matyushenko. Most of these fighters are great fighters, and Tito was forced to just sit on top of them...Now lets talk about his TKO's he has 8. Now lets first mention that 3 of those are Ken Shamrock who is amazing, but definatly shouldnt be fighting anymore. The only person who is decent he has TKO'd is Guy Mezger. He is not only the cheapest in my opinion, he is also one of the most overrated fighters in history. I cant wait until he gets KO'd again from Chuck.

Down with Tito Ortiz!

NaChOmAmA!


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

*Cheapest Move in MMA*

I do not think elbows or footstomps are the cheap moves in MMA. In my opinion cheap means sitting on top of the other fighter and just waiting for the decision. In my opinion, if you are in a completely dominant position for the whole 15 minutes or how ever long the fight is, you should be able to finish the fight at least most of the time. Now to reveal who I am talking about...obviously Tito Ortiz. Everyone seems to think hes so amazing. Sure he is 15 - 4 - 0. Now lets look at how he won those. Well first off 5 are decisions...so he sat on top of Wanderlai Silva, Patrick Cote, Vitor Belfore (split), Forrest Griffin (Split), and Vladimir Matyushenko. Most of these fighters are great fighters, and Tito was forced to just sit on top of them...Now lets talk about his TKO's he has 8. Now lets first mention that 3 of those are Ken Shamrock who is amazing, but definatly shouldnt be fighting anymore. The only person who is decent he has TKO'd is Guy Mezger. He is not only the cheapest in my opinion, he is also one of the most overrated fighters in history. I cant wait until he gets KO'd again from Chuck.

Down with Tito Ortiz!

NaChOmAmA!


----------



## sherdog (Oct 11, 2006)

although these fighters are not suppose to use rabbit punches, many fighter uses them a huge amount of the time. It should be enforce! Points should be deducted!


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

NaChOmAmA said:


> I do not think elbows or footstomps are the cheap moves in MMA. In my opinion cheap means sitting on top of the other fighter and just waiting for the decision. In my opinion, if you are in a completely dominant position for the whole 15 minutes or how ever long the fight is, you should be able to finish the fight at least most of the time. Now to reveal who I am talking about...obviously Tito Ortiz. Everyone seems to think hes so amazing. Sure he is 15 - 4 - 0. Now lets look at how he won those. Well first off 5 are decisions...so he sat on top of Wanderlai Silva, Patrick Cote, Vitor Belfore (split), Forrest Griffin (Split), and Vladimir Matyushenko. Most of these fighters are great fighters, and Tito was forced to just sit on top of them...Now lets talk about his TKO's he has 8. Now lets first mention that 3 of those are Ken Shamrock who is amazing, but definatly shouldnt be fighting anymore. The only person who is decent he has TKO'd is Guy Mezger. He is not only the cheapest in my opinion, he is also one of the most overrated fighters in history. I cant wait until he gets KO'd again from Chuck.
> 
> Down with Tito Ortiz!
> 
> NaChOmAmA!


Have you even watched any of his fights? He doesn’t just lay on guys like you are saying he does, he is one of the only guys in MMA that can effectively pound guys with elbows for there guard. He is a GnP fighter not LnP.


----------



## sxrxnrr (Oct 19, 2006)

NaChOmAmA said:


> In my opinion cheap means sitting on top of the other fighter and just waiting for the decision.


I am not sure if this is cheap, I really dont think that anything is really cheap in the game that is legal. Lay and pray is annoying to watch and I would like to see refs bring fights back to the feet if there is not scoring from within the gaurd. Tito is one of the best fighters for scoring guard, and saying that he should not do it would take him out of the UFC. There are also many great wrestlers that use that tatic in the UFC, such as Matt Hughes, Randy Couture, Fedor. If a fighter cannot get out of gaurd from the bottom, and cannot keep from getting taken down, then he does not deserve to win a fight against a wrestler. Take a look at Chuck in his first Couture fight he got taken down 2 or 3 times and he kept getting up.

If you do not like lay and pray watch pride where fighters are penalized financially for stalling. 

Impose your will and you will win. If elbowing a guy in the head makes him bleed do it, if a foot stomp gets your opponent to the ground do it. You are blind if you dont think that every compeditive MMA fighter is cheap and does things when the ref is not looking you are wrong. MMA is supposed to be as close to a real world as possible.


----------



## lfaris (Oct 15, 2006)

just to clarify what i meant by starting the thread; first off i do like elbows but in ken flow's case he has won a few fights by cutting a guy open when otherwise he would get destroyed. this in my opinion is a very cheap way to win. how are you suppose to fight a guy when you know his only chance is to wait for a chance to cut you open. he cant finish a fight but he might be able to cut you open with one razor sharp elbow. sorry but this is cheap as hell. accidents happen but it is obvious that his intention it to cut people. i agree with everyone about evan tanner he uses this move to finish people not just hope for one to land and cut someone!!


----------



## BigBanda (Oct 6, 2006)

NaChOmAmA said:


> I do not think elbows or footstomps are the cheap moves in MMA. In my opinion cheap means sitting on top of the other fighter and just waiting for the decision. In my opinion, if you are in a completely dominant position for the whole 15 minutes or how ever long the fight is, you should be able to finish the fight at least most of the time. Now to reveal who I am talking about...obviously Tito Ortiz. Everyone seems to think hes so amazing. Sure he is 15 - 4 - 0. Now lets look at how he won those. Well first off 5 are decisions...so he sat on top of Wanderlai Silva, Patrick Cote, Vitor Belfore (split), Forrest Griffin (Split), and Vladimir Matyushenko. Most of these fighters are great fighters, and Tito was forced to just sit on top of them...Now lets talk about his TKO's he has 8. Now lets first mention that 3 of those are Ken Shamrock who is amazing, but definatly shouldnt be fighting anymore. The only person who is decent he has TKO'd is Guy Mezger. He is not only the cheapest in my opinion, he is also one of the most overrated fighters in history. I cant wait until he gets KO'd again from Chuck.
> 
> Down with Tito Ortiz!
> 
> NaChOmAmA!


HAHA great points, you couldnt of said it better.


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

TLB said:


> Have you even watched any of his fights? He doesn’t just lay on guys like you are saying he does, he is one of the only guys in MMA that can effectively pound guys with elbows for there guard. He is a GnP fighter not LnP.


Why dont you go to google video and check out some Tito Ortiz "highlights" if that is what you want to call them. He is the most popular borefest out there! I cant stand him in the Octagon...I wish Shamrock woulda KO'd him sooooo bad!

NaChOmAmA


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

NaChOmAmA said:


> Why dont you go to google video and check out some Tito Ortiz "highlights" if that is what you want to call them. He is the most popular borefest out there! I cant stand him in the Octagon...I wish Shamrock woulda KO'd him sooooo bad!
> 
> NaChOmAmA


Haha, if you watch any of his highlights you are not going to see him just laying on any one, so how would me doing that help your argument? I don’t need a highlight, I have already seen all of his fights. Tito KO’d Shamrock, so why even bring that up?


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

TLB said:


> Haha, if you watch any of his highlights you are not going to see him just laying on any one, so how would me doing that help your argument? I don’t need a highlight, I have already seen all of his fights. Tito KO’d Shamrock, so why even bring that up?


Of Course Tito KO'd Shamrock...who wouldnt now adays? Shamrock is awesome and I will always love him for the early days! But if Ortiz couldnt stop Shamrock that would have made him a shameful clown!


----------



## Maniac (Oct 31, 2006)

lfaris said:


> honorable mention goes to tim sylvia shitting himself


lol when did he shit himself


----------



## CTFlyingKnee (Jul 5, 2006)

Being a fighter, I think you guys are all wrong. Elbows are a way......excuse me....a LEGAL way to win a fight. The earlier you can stop a fight, the better you look, and if you are able to stop a fight due to a nasty cut, that means your elbows are awesome and you should use them more often. As for the "Chris Leben" footstomps......Take a look at "The King of The Streets" Marco Ruas...he was the master of the foot stomp and no one complained to him about it. Do what you gotta do to get where you wanna go......within the rules at least....hell just be lucky punches or any kind of shots to the jewels arent allowed anymore


----------



## albaroja (Aug 18, 2006)

Ken Flo's elbows are dirty and cheap? What an extremely lame observation....

Most elbows don't end up as cuts that end fights. Elbows to the head hurt an opponent, just like any other offensive technique. Shamrock got hit with more than a dozen of Tito's elbows during those fights, did that fight get stopped because of excessive bleeding?

I've watched UFC fights since the very first one, I can only remember a small handful that were stopped because of blood, and not all of them were because of elbows. If elbows are cheap, then so is the rear naked choke, and so is the left hook, and an armbar must be too. All of these can stop a fight early, imagine that. LOL

Boxing matches get stopped because of blood, how many time could an elbow be to blame?


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

NaChOmAmA said:


> Of Course Tito KO'd Shamrock...who wouldnt now adays? Shamrock is awesome and I will always love him for the early days! But if Ortiz couldnt stop Shamrock that would have made him a shameful clown!


Well, Tito did stop Ken so again why even bring that up? Any ways one thing we can agree on is that Ken Shamrock was a great figure for MMA back in the early days. He was one of the guys fighting to keep the sport alive when John McCain was trying to have it banned. Of course being a Tito Ortiz fan I haven’t thought too much of Ken lately but I have always respected him. I can’t wait till Tito gets the belt back and puts an end to all of the doubting! Unfortunately though, this is MMA and people will never stop doubting even when he is champ again.


----------



## lfaris (Oct 15, 2006)

if you elbow someone in the face to cut them during a boxing match then you are also a cheap bastard


----------



## albaroja (Aug 18, 2006)

"if you elbow someone in the face to cut them during a boxing match then you are also a cheap bastard"

Well since elbows are illegal in boxing, of course it would be. But you missed my point by a mile, boxing matches are ended all the time because of bleeding, and elbows are never involved. Have you ever seen a boxer elbow another? I for one never have.


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

TLB said:


> Well, Tito did stop Ken so again why even bring that up? Any ways one thing we can agree on is that Ken Shamrock was a great figure for MMA back in the early days. He was one of the guys fighting to keep the sport alive when John McCain was trying to have it banned. Of course being a Tito Ortiz fan I haven’t thought too much of Ken lately but I have always respected him. I can’t wait till Tito gets the belt back and puts an end to all of the doubting! Unfortunately though, this is MMA and people will never stop doubting even when he is champ again.


Yea I am so glad that Ken and Royce fought to hard to gain respect and publicity for the sport. I like Tito Ortiz as a person *during TUF* He seems like a very decent guy, hard working and dedicated etc. I just have a thing against wrestlers I guess...maybe because I used to love Professional Wrestling so much until I grew a brain and realized its not real haha then moved onto the early UFC days! I just think that Tito has such dominant wrestling skills that he should be able to actually stop all his fights. I have nothing wrong with GnP...just dont stall!!! I love the no stall rule for pride!

NaChOmAmA


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

see.. no one again ever looks at the facts.. dana doesn't not like tito.. a because he a whinning biotch .. and also he makes people not watch the UFC .. because he's boring and sits on top of people... so its one of the reasons why he doesn't fight much anymore.. yes.. tito is good on the ground.. and know how to properly lay on top of some one.. and yes.. he can push them towards the fence... but just like ken flo.. they only have one move.. and thats to do 1 thing.. (tito lays and gays.. ken flo elbows and bleeds) they are ways to win fights.. but they will never become champs because its all they have ... and fighters will adapt.... so ..... the fact is that tito better shape up his game.. or he wont have a contract anymore.. no matter how much anyone likes him.. he makes for a boring ass fight... even when its for the belt!!!


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> see.. no one again ever looks at the facts.. dana doesn't not like tito.. a because he a whinning biotch .. and also he makes people not watch the UFC .. because he's boring and sits on top of people... so its one of the reasons why he doesn't fight much anymore.. yes.. tito is good on the ground.. and know how to properly lay on top of some one.. and yes.. he can push them towards the fence... but just like ken flo.. they only have one move.. and thats to do 1 thing.. (tito lays and gays.. ken flo elbows and bleeds) they are ways to win fights.. but they will never become champs because its all they have ... and fighters will adapt.... so ..... the fact is that tito better shape up his game.. or he wont have a contract anymore.. no matter how much anyone likes him.. he makes for a boring ass fight... even when its for the belt!!!


What the hell are you talking about? Using punctuation and actually sentences would help. Here we go all over again, Tito is not a lay and pray fighter, he is a ground and pound fighter. You say that because he only uses one tool he will never get anywhere but that is not the case. Matt Hughes also uses one method and so does Chuck Liddell. They use what is most effective for them to win the fight but Ortiz, Hughes and Liddell are all well rounded fighter. They’re also smart enough to do what will win them the fight.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> What the hell are you talking about? Using punctuation and actually sentences would help. Here we go all over again, Tito is not a lay and pray fighter, he is a ground and pound fighter. You say that because he only uses one tool he will never get anywhere but that is not the case. Matt Hughes also uses one method and so does Chuck Liddell. They use what is most effective for them to win the fight but Ortiz, Hughes and Liddell are all well rounded fighter. They’re also smart enough to do what will win them the fight.



wow....... 1st of all.. who care if i put commas or ... its still is the same ... but thats besides the point.. lol no ufc fighters are well rounded.. hahahah they know 1 style .. i have been saying this every post.. WRESTLING isn't a good style to know.. tito is one of the best wrestlers.. but if you watch the highlights videos it puts you to sleep.. they only "well rounded fighter" in the ufc is anderson silva.. and hes not a ufc guy.. hes from pride.. so .. again.. you failed to check out the fact before you posted.. you just seem to think that tito is the greatest fighter.. HAHAHAHAHAH laying on someone and moving them around the octagone isn't a fight... it's more of a humping match.. so if you atleast did research you'd see that hes not that good.. as someone else said.. he's one of the most overrated fighters in HISTORY


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

TLB said:


> What the hell are you talking about? Using punctuation and actually sentences would help.


First off, use proper grammar when trying to bash someone about their grammar.

NaChOmAmA


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> wow....... 1st of all.. who care if i put commas or ... its still is the same ... but thats besides the point.. lol no ufc fighters are well rounded.. hahahah they know 1 style .. i have been saying this every post.. WRESTLING isn't a good style to know.. tito is one of the best wrestlers.. but if you watch the highlights videos it puts you to sleep.. they only "well rounded fighter" in the ufc is anderson silva.. and hes not a ufc guy.. hes from pride.. so .. again.. you failed to check out the fact before you posted.. you just seem to think that tito is the greatest fighter.. HAHAHAHAHAH laying on someone and moving them around the octagone isn't a fight... it's more of a humping match.. so if you atleast did research you'd see that hes not that good.. as someone else said.. he's one of the most overrated fighters in HISTORY


YOU should care that you aren’t using punctuation and no, it’s not the same at all. And your entire post is a joke, telling me I should do some research before I post. Haha, you know NOTHING! GSP is not well rounded, Rich Franklin in not well rounded? You can’t be serious when saying the UFC has no well rounded fighters and then telling me to do some research. “Wrestling isn’t a good style to know” that statement right there shows how much you don’t know about MMA, wrestling is key in MMA. Again it is you that needs to do research, Tito doesn’t just lay on people, he pounds them with elbows from the guard. I have been a fan of MMA for over 6 years so it is not me that needs to do research, I have seen pretty much all of Tito’s fights live.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

NaChOmAmA said:


> First off, use proper grammar when trying to bash someone about their grammar.
> 
> NaChOmAmA


I made one little mistake from quick typing, he uses no punctuation at all. Come on man.


----------



## sherdog (Oct 11, 2006)

daman5 said:


> wow....... 1st of all.. who care if i put commas or ... its still is the same ... but thats besides the point.. lol no ufc fighters are well rounded.. hahahah they know 1 style .. i have been saying this every post.. WRESTLING isn't a good style to know.. tito is one of the best wrestlers.. but if you watch the highlights videos it puts you to sleep.. they only "well rounded fighter" in the ufc is anderson silva.. and hes not a ufc guy.. hes from pride.. so .. again.. you failed to check out the fact before you posted.. you just seem to think that tito is the greatest fighter.. HAHAHAHAHAH laying on someone and moving them around the octagone isn't a fight... it's more of a humping match.. so if you atleast did research you'd see that hes not that good.. as someone else said.. he's one of the most overrated fighters in HISTORY


It isn't that bad, but it is a little difficult to read because it was a tad long.


----------



## CTFlyingKnee (Jul 5, 2006)

daman5 said:


> .. so if you atleast did research you'd see that hes not that good.. as someone else said.. he's one of the most overrated fighters in HISTORY


you're a moron........when you're only losses are to Chuck Liddell, Randy Couture, Frank Shamrock and Guy Metzger and you have wins against guys the likes of Ken Shamrock (3), Vitor Belfort, Evan Tanner, Vladimir Matyushenko, Guy Mezger, Yuki Kondo, and everyones favorite Wanderlei Silva.....you are most certainly not over rated by any stretch of the imagination

PS. does the name Georges St Pierre come to mind when you think of well rounded fighters? Or it it just me? do YOUR research next time you want to try and bash someone


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

TLB said:


> I made one little mistake from quick typing, he uses no punctuation at all. Come on man.



I know! I was just bashing you because you were bashing him! Who cares about gramatics or spelling or anything! Its a forum! I LOVE YOU TLB!

What do you call a mamma who isnt yours?

NaChOmAmA!


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> YOU should care that you aren’t using punctuation and no, it’s not the same at all. And your entire post is a joke, telling me I should do some research before I post. Haha, you know NOTHING! GSP is not well rounded, Rich Franklin in not well rounded? You can’t be serious when saying the UFC has no well rounded fighters and then telling me to do some research. “Wrestling isn’t a good style to know” that statement right there shows how much you don’t know about MMA, wrestling is key in MMA. Again it is you that needs to do research, Tito doesn’t just lay on people, he pounds them with elbows from the guard. I have been a fan of MMA for over 6 years so it is not me that needs to do research, I have seen pretty much all of Tito’s fights live.



Wow, I say do some research because if Tito Ortiz is good to you, then you need to open your eyes alittle. If you'd like to talk about GnP skills then we have Dan the Beast, now thats GnP. If you can knock someone out from the gaurd then you have skills. Tito couldn't even knock out Ken Shamrock, so to say that Tito has skill is a HUGE overstatment. Now lets look at anyone really, they only thing they have for "skills" are a knock out punch, or a wrestling back ground. Far for any sort of skill. Now lets look at wrestling as a "skill". It is far fetched to say it's a necessity to have. I have Wrestled since I was young, don't get me wrong its great to have but also having a background is an actual Martial ART (HENCE MMA) would be good. Wrestling tells you how to shoot in, but with any good MMA fighter, they will see that and knee you to the head. You don't know how many fights I have seen end like that. 

Now we look at a martial art. By having almost ANY martial art background, the first thing they teach you is to stop a TAKE DOWN...... hummm makes you think how useful wrestling is.....

so again... before you post CHECK THE FACTS!!!!


----------



## CTFlyingKnee (Jul 5, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Wrestling tells you how to shoot in, but with any good MMA fighter, they will see that and knee you to the head. You don't know how many fights I have seen end like that.


dude, shut up......when someone shoots in for a takedown, all you see is their opponent sprawl to avoid the takedown, have you seen an MMA fight? Ever?


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

CTFlyingKnee said:


> dude, shut up......when someone shoots in for a takedown, all you see is their opponent sprawl to avoid the takedown, have you seen an MMA fight? Ever?



I have seen tons.. just because UFC fighters sprawl doesn't mean everyone in the world does it ..... so if you only seen ufc then again..... DO SOME RESEARCH .. the internet is a wonderful thing

and to the responce to "have i ever watched an mma fight" .... lets see

here are just some leagues that are out there

Pride, Tko, UCC, UCE, Mecca, UFC (if anyone saw TUF is a league needs to start to think), if you want to get into K1, Thai (all i get is Muay Thai so i dont know what league it is) Vale Tudo... and thoes are just the ones that i can name off the top of my head.... im prolly missing a bunch more..

so i like to watch MMA, but i dont like to watch Tito, Hes not skilled and not wellt rounded.

The only reason why fighters sprawl is because they weren't ready for a shoot... so they sprawl out and stop the shoot.. but if a good fighter is ready they be anticipate and shoot and knock the mofo out.... thats what makes a good fighter


----------



## CTFlyingKnee (Jul 5, 2006)

Unlike you, I dont need to use the internet to look up things to try and prove people wrong. I dont need to go to sherdog or any of those other sites to find out who guys have beaten and how just to prove a point to someone at the other end of a computer. So, if you think you're outsmarting me, you really arent, I know about MMA, Im a fighter myself, I know how it goes, so dont think because youve seen one or two fights where a guy knees someone else in the face during a takedown that you even slightly compare to my knowledge of the sport. End of discussion


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

CTFlyingKnee said:


> Unlike you, I dont need to use the internet to look up things to try and prove people wrong. I dont need to go to sherdog or any of those other sites to find out who guys have beaten and how just to prove a point to someone at the other end of a computer. So, if you think you're outsmarting me, you really arent, I know about MMA, Im a fighter myself, I know how it goes, so dont think because youve seen one or two fights where a guy knees someone else in the face during a takedown that you even slightly compare to my knowledge of the sport. End of discussion



Ok, then let me ask you thing... You are about to fight a fighter who you know will shoot in on you, you know thats all he really has but if he takes you down you are in trouble. So you are telling me you would sprawl and try and stop that (where wrestlers know how to go round the sprawl because that's what they train for) or would you watch his face, see his eyes drop to your legs and then be ready for a quick knock out and change the course of the fight....

I'd say the choice is simple... But that's why almost every fighter is told to look at the eyes.. where wrestlers don't

see I have noticed the lack of knowledge in your statements. Because you say the only defence to a shoot is a spawl, when I know/seen different, why do you think wrestlers get OWNED in pride?


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

CTFlyingKnee said:


> you're a moron........when you're only losses are to Chuck Liddell, Randy Couture, Frank Shamrock and Guy Metzger and you have wins against guys the likes of Ken Shamrock (3), Vitor Belfort, Evan Tanner, Vladimir Matyushenko, Guy Mezger, Yuki Kondo, and everyones favorite Wanderlei Silva.....you are most certainly not over rated by any stretch of the imagination
> 
> PS. does the name Georges St Pierre come to mind when you think of well rounded fighters? Or it it just me? do YOUR research next time you want to try and bash someone



and GSP isn't that well rounded fighter, he has power he has BJJ, but that's really it. A well rounded fighter has a Mixed skill, HENCE MIX MATRIAL ARTS

and just to let people know wrestling isn't a martial art...... to put it in prespective, its like saying curling is a sport (yes people do play it, but it's not a sport!)


----------



## sxrxnrr (Oct 19, 2006)

*Nice b*tching but...*

There is some serious crap being posted here. Saying that Tito is an overrated fighter is BS. As of late he is slipping, when was the last time that he won a big fight. I dont count Ken he is/was a has been.

Say GSP is not a well rounded fighter is obviously an attempt to get people arguing. He is Above average a BJJ a purple belt, damb good striker (ask bj penn). He has good take down defence. 

daman5 is obviouly trying to pick a fight w/ one of seinor members of the forum. Sounding like a dumas I might add.

If you kick or knee somebody going in for a double leg you better be sure you can end the fight with the strike, or you will be on your back. I have seen fights stopped because of a strike while somebody was going in for a takedown. But it is rare.

why do you think wrestlers get OWNED in pride? - Fedor vs anybody???? World ***** Champ????? Here's your sign.


----------



## Ken Shamrock (Jun 18, 2006)

I really don't like the footstomps in MMA when you have the guy in a clinch. I just don't find it fair at all.


----------



## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

Ken Shamrock said:


> I really don't like the footstomps in MMA when you have the guy in a clinch. I just don't find it fair at all.


see, that i don't mind because you're attempting to stop their assault on you, and trying to offset their balance. plus, they can't and won't stop a fight because of a stomp. their purpouse is not to get a fight stopped due to a cut and not a legitimate win.

elbows to KO are one thing, but any tard can spot elbows delibirately thrown to cut a guy, to get a fight stopped.


----------



## Maniac (Oct 31, 2006)

when did tim sylvia shit him self lol


----------



## sxrxnrr (Oct 19, 2006)

I just want pictures of Tim and is BM


----------



## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

sxrxnrr said:


> I just want pictures of Tim and is BM


here you go:
Tim:








BM:


----------



## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

as for the topic of the thread and the argument going on, I am gonna have to agree with daman5. Not so much about Tito being overrated, I mean he is a little, but only by his fans and his ego. He's a pretty good fighter, but I don't think he's the best or even close to being the best, that's just my opinion though.

But I do agree with daman5 about the knee to the head rather than sprawl. I hardly ever see people sprawl in PRIDE or K-1 where the fighters are a lot more elite. Pele KTFOed Matt Hughes while Hughes was shooting on him. Gomi KTFOed Ralph Gracie when Ralph tried to shoot in on him. Sprawl is just efensive, the knee to the face is the ideal counter to a wrestling shoot. I don't think you need to be a fighter to know that. The reason you don't see knees during a shoot in the UFC is because obviously it is something that the UFC fighters can't master. Of all the fights from the foreign organizations i've seen with a guy kneeing to the head of his shooting opponent, I have NEVER...EVER...seen someone fail at it. I have, however, seen people fail at it in the UFC. The knee to the head is just more effective, and obviously it's not too hard, because like I said, I've never seen anyone NOT at least stun someone with one. And I really see nothing wrong with looking at sherdogs fight finder or looking at videos on the web before making your comments, in fact that's what everyone should do so I see no need to discourage it, because at least he is making sure his facts are straight. And so far his facts ARE straight, but you guys just don't like his OPINION of Tito. But I also disagree that Anderson is the only well-rounded fighter in the UFC...GSP, BJ Penn, Jens Pulver, Karo Parisyan, Andrei Arlovski are all pretty well rounded


----------



## Bob Sacramento (Oct 16, 2006)

That failure to knee someone in the head in UFC you claim to notice may not be because they cant strike; a knee is a pretty straight forward move... It may be the caliber of wrestlers in North America is much higher, which is true... Still, kneeing someone in the head is so easily said, but when you train to take someone down, that is what you work on avoiding. Its an easy indication of who actually fights and who watches it when someone says "just knee them in the head as they come in"...


----------



## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

Bob Sacramento said:


> That failure to knee someone in the head in UFC you claim to notice may not be because they cant strike; a knee is a pretty straight forward move... It may be the caliber of wrestlers in North America is much higher, which is true... Still, kneeing someone in the head is so easily said, but when you train to take someone down, that is what you work on avoiding. Its an easy indication of who actually fights and who watches it when someone says "just knee them in the head as they come in"...


i wish my posts would stop double posting!!!


----------



## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

Bob Sacramento said:


> That failure to knee someone in the head in UFC you claim to notice may not be because they cant strike; a knee is a pretty straight forward move... It may be the caliber of wrestlers in North America is much higher, which is true... Still, kneeing someone in the head is so easily said, but when you train to take someone down, that is what you work on avoiding. Its an easy indication of who actually fights and who watches it when someone says "just knee them in the head as they come in"...


yea, that's a good point about the wrestlers in america being higher caliber. Didn't think about that. I'm not a wrestler so I don't know what they train for, I'm the guy who usually does the kneeing. No, I am not a fighter, not anymore, but I spent almost half my life fighting, so I know how effective a knee is. Sprawls are good too, all I'm saying is that a knee to the head is ideal. That's safe to say right?

And besides, Hughes is a top notch wrestler in america, but got KOed by a PRIDE fighter during a shoot. And it doesn't matter how long ago it happened, because Hughes has always been a wrestler. So even though it was quite a few years ago, he still shoulda known to watch out for the knee, right? But he didn't...


----------



## Bob Sacramento (Oct 16, 2006)

I dont want to make excuses and blame inexperience. A knee if done well is something difficult to avoid. I would rather sprawl or step out of a lunge, luckily I have long gangly legs so it should be easy enough to run from


----------



## BigE (Oct 14, 2006)

Grabbing the cage when an opponent is trying to slam your ass. 

Take it like a man, *****!


----------



## Kameleon (Apr 20, 2006)

BigE said:


> Grabbing the cage when an opponent is trying to slam your ass.
> 
> Take it like a man, *****!


*Agreed. This is the cheapest move. :thumbsup: *


----------



## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

yea I didn't think of that one for some reason. i gotta agree since that one is actually illegal unlike a dirty elbow or foot stomp


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> as for the topic of the thread and the argument going on, I am gonna have to agree with daman5. Not so much about Tito being overrated, I mean he is a little, but only by his fans and his ego. He's a pretty good fighter, but I don't think he's the best or even close to being the best, that's just my opinion though.
> 
> But I do agree with daman5 about the knee to the head rather than sprawl. I hardly ever see people sprawl in PRIDE or K-1 where the fighters are a lot more elite. Pele KTFOed Matt Hughes while Hughes was shooting on him. Gomi KTFOed Ralph Gracie when Ralph tried to shoot in on him. Sprawl is just efensive, the knee to the face is the ideal counter to a wrestling shoot. I don't think you need to be a fighter to know that. The reason you don't see knees during a shoot in the UFC is because obviously it is something that the UFC fighters can't master. Of all the fights from the foreign organizations i've seen with a guy kneeing to the head of his shooting opponent, I have NEVER...EVER...seen someone fail at it. I have, however, seen people fail at it in the UFC. The knee to the head is just more effective, and obviously it's not too hard, because like I said, I've never seen anyone NOT at least stun someone with one. And I really see nothing wrong with looking at sherdogs fight finder or looking at videos on the web before making your comments, in fact that's what everyone should do so I see no need to discourage it, because at least he is making sure his facts are straight. And so far his facts ARE straight, but you guys just don't like his OPINION of Tito. But I also disagree that Anderson is the only well-rounded fighter in the UFC...GSP, BJ Penn, Jens Pulver, Karo Parisyan, Andrei Arlovski are all pretty well rounded



Thank you, finally someone who watchs more then just UFC....

I was not syaing GSP isn't good.. what i mean by not being a well rounded fighter is they really only have 1 martial art and then speed and power, if you look at Anderson Silva hes a black belt in BJJ, and a Master at Muay Thai, AND hes got the speed and power, which means hes a "well rounded fighter" because he has more then one Art under his belt.. thats all i really ment by saying hes not a well rounded fighter


But thanks for seenin my point of veiw pot head!! lol... maybe i have smoked one too many to argue long point on a fourm .. hahah

but the fact still remains the same.. Tito is a horriable "fighter", great wrestler .. but not a fighter


----------



## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

BigE said:


> Grabbing the cage when an opponent is trying to slam your ass.
> 
> Take it like a man, *****!


absolutely! but, that's one of those things that is a rule, i'ts forbidden, yet there is no way to stop or enforce it... 


that could be solved by instituting yellow cards! 

trust me, if 10 fighters in 1 ppv got yellow cards for grabbing the fense to avoid a takedown.. you wouldn't see it too often after that!


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

pt447 said:


> absolutely! but, that's one of those things that is a rule, i'ts forbidden, yet there is no way to stop or enforce it...
> 
> 
> that could be solved by instituting yellow cards!
> ...



Lol, i see that happen all the time in the UFC, fighters grabbing the fence all the time. It's sad cuz that changed the whole course of the match..

But about the knee thing, wrestlers are wrestler, yes in North American wrestlers are stronger, but the skill is still pretty much the same across the board.

But a knee to the head will stop anyone as they try and shoot in. But its not just a knee, i have seen fighter shoot in and the other fighter sprawls out and is throwing punches which knocks the guy out... so shooting in is just the UFC way


----------



## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

look what Cro-cop did to every single one of Coleman's shoot attempts... it was hilarious!!!


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

BigE said:


> Grabbing the cage when an opponent is trying to slam your ass.
> 
> Take it like a man, *****!


Yeah, I agree with you on this one.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

CTFlyingKnee said:


> you're a moron........when you're only losses are to Chuck Liddell, Randy Couture, Frank Shamrock and Guy Metzger and you have wins against guys the likes of Ken Shamrock (3), Vitor Belfort, Evan Tanner, Vladimir Matyushenko, Guy Mezger, Yuki Kondo, and everyones favorite Wanderlei Silva.....you are most certainly not over rated by any stretch of the imagination
> 
> PS. does the name Georges St Pierre come to mind when you think of well rounded fighters? Or it it just me? do YOUR research next time you want to try and bash someone


Very well said!:thumbsup:


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Wow, I say do some research because if Tito Ortiz is good to you, then you need to open your eyes alittle. If you'd like to talk about GnP skills then we have Dan the Beast, now thats GnP. If you can knock someone out from the gaurd then you have skills. Tito couldn't even knock out Ken Shamrock, so to say that Tito has skill is a HUGE overstatment. Now lets look at anyone really, they only thing they have for "skills" are a knock out punch, or a wrestling back ground. Far for any sort of skill. Now lets look at wrestling as a "skill". It is far fetched to say it's a necessity to have. I have Wrestled since I was young, don't get me wrong its great to have but also having a background is an actual Martial ART (HENCE MMA) would be good. Wrestling tells you how to shoot in, but with any good MMA fighter, they will see that and knee you to the head. You don't know how many fights I have seen end like that.
> 
> Now we look at a martial art. By having almost ANY martial art background, the first thing they teach you is to stop a TAKE DOWN...... hummm makes you think how useful wrestling is.....
> 
> so again... before you post CHECK THE FACTS!!!!



You are an idiot and really need to not post at all, stop telling me to check the facts when you clearly have little knowledge of MMA. Tito Ortiz DID knock out Ken Shamrock WITH GNP. I will say it again, wrestling is very important in MMA, you don’t have to know it but you are much better of with it. And what are you even talking about “having a back round in martial arts”? They wouldn’t even be fighting in MMA with out it, the most well rounded MMA fighters have wrestling in there game is what I’m saying. The first thing a MMA fighter thinks when some one shoots in is not to knee, it’s to sprawl because if they don’t land it clean they are going to the ground. Again you show that you know just about nothing.


----------



## cabby (Sep 15, 2006)

The cheapest move ever was Keith Hackney's nut shots on Jo Son. It was legal at the time but come on, gotta have some kind of an image. Punching nuts isn't cool


----------



## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

cabby said:


> The cheapest move ever was Keith Hackney's nut shots on Jo Son. It was legal at the time but come on, gotta have some kind of an image. Punching nuts isn't cool


if you're ever in a real fight, where your safety or life is on the line, i garauntee you'll go for the nuts if it means your escape!


----------



## sherdog (Oct 11, 2006)

Bj and his eye poking!
I'm just playing. I know they were accidental.


----------



## cabby (Sep 15, 2006)

pt447 said:


> if you're ever in a real fight, where your safety or life is on the line, i garauntee you'll go for the nuts if it means your escape!


I've been in a good share of fistfights, but never went for the nuts. Even if I was losing I never did. For my life yes I'd do anything but In the UFC octagon I wouldn't resort to that It would be kind of embarassing I'd think, to win like that you know?


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> You are an idiot and really need to not post at all, stop telling me to check the facts when you clearly have little knowledge of MMA. Tito Ortiz DID knock out Ken Shamrock WITH GNP. I will say it again, wrestling is very important in MMA, you don’t have to know it but you are much better of with it. And what are you even talking about “having a back round in martial arts”? They wouldn’t even be fighting in MMA with out it, the most well rounded MMA fighters have wrestling in there game is what I’m saying. The first thing a MMA fighter thinks when some one shoots in is not to knee, it’s to sprawl because if they don’t land it clean they are going to the ground. Again you show that you know just about nothing.



First of all, it's Ken Shamrock, hes old and should have never fought him....

Tito is not a ground a pound specialist, HAHAH he's far from it. And again Knees are the hardest thing on your body. Connecting with that is very deadly (and if you disagee look at what the knees did to Rich Franklin), so to say kneeing someone is less effective as shooting, then you obvilously are just looking at the MMA as a style. If you have any Martial Art background training you should know that you wait for the other person to strike, and then you strike.

Sprawling is a last ditch effort not a way to hold your position. Because you should already be waiting for that shoot and be ready with a strike, the only time you really should sprawl is when that shoot catchs you off gaurd. Then you SPRAWL, to save your stance.

A Sprawl is just that, a last lunge so you don't give up position, but if you are against a good wrestler like Tito, then sprawling isn't a gaurantee, so KNEE!! you know hes going to shoot. But yet again this person just keeps posting thinking that the spawl is the best thing since slice bread.... Wrestlers spawl against Wrestlers, but that's just a wrestling match. When you see a person with Kick boxing or Muay Thai you will then be able to see how ineffective shooting is, but you virgin eyes never really seen any outstanding fighters, so you just see wrestlers who sprawl.

so again man, I URGE YOU TO CHECK YOUR FACTS BEFORE YOU JUST ASSUME YOU ARE RIGHT BECAUSE YOU HAVE A MMA BACKGOUND.

And for the people who think I'm wrong, just look at Fedor did to Mark in the last Pride match, when the knees are done effective the shooter just ends up grabbing on to your leg and basically holds on for dear life. But this moron things that sprawling is the only way to stop a shoot. NUB (sorry for the name, but this person just keeps eerking me because he thinks his way is always the best way when IT'S MMA, the best way is the way that hurts someone.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> First of all, it's Ken Shamrock, hes old and should have never fought him....
> 
> Tito is not a ground a pound specialist, HAHAH he's far from it. And again Knees are the hardest thing on your body. Connecting with that is very deadly (and if you disagee look at what the knees did to Rich Franklin), so to say kneeing someone is less effective as shooting, then you obvilously are just looking at the MMA as a style. If you have any Martial Art background training you should know that you wait for the other person to strike, and then you strike.
> 
> ...



Hahaha, you have nothing so now you are just making stuff up, haha. What does it matter that Ken is old, you didn’t even know that Tito KO’d him, so you just bring up he is old, haha. Tito is clearly a GnP specialist, just watch all of his fight, that is plan and simple all you have to do to realize this! I never said knees aren’t affective, again you are just making shit up, all I said is that you see a lot more sprawling will success than people throwing knees will success, again you have nothing so you are making stuff up! I have had a great laugh at your post AGAIN! My facts are straight, it is you that have been stating bullshit, so seriously stop telling ME to check the facts, idiot. I can’t believe you went on and on talking about wrestling and sprawling, what is your point? I get all of that. I already stated that I have been watching MMA for about 6 years so don’t try and say I am new to the sport when you clearly have to google every single thing you have brought up! You clearly don’t get how MMA works, why wont you just give up?


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Hahaha, you have nothing so now you are just making stuff up, haha. What does it matter that Ken is old, you didn’t even know that Tito KO’d him, so you just bring up he is old, haha. Tito is clearly a GnP specialist, just watch all of his fight, that is plan and simple all you have to do to realize this! I never said knees aren’t affective, again you are just making shit up, all I said is that you see a lot more sprawling will success than people throwing knees will success, again you have nothing so you are making stuff up! I have had a great laugh at your post AGAIN! My facts are straight, it is you that have been stating bullshit, so seriously stop telling ME to check the facts, idiot. I can’t believe you went on and on talking about wrestling and sprawling, what is your point? I get all of that. I already stated that I have been watching MMA for about 6 years so don’t try and say I am new to the sport when you clearly have to google every single thing you have brought up! You clearly don’t get how MMA works, why wont you just give up?


You see a lot more UFC fighers sprawling becuse they are WRESTLERS!!!! wow, get it threw your head

"Tito is clearly a GnP specialist, just watch all of his fight, that is plan and simple all you have to do to realize this!" THATS NOT A SPECIALITY lay and gay isn't a specialty its an annoyence, beside Tito being a dumb ass, thats why he never had his contract renewed, he doesn't produce a show, he makes a joke of the sport. If i wanted to watch a wrestling match Id watch the olympics, this is an MMA battle, not lets lay on top of my competitor and hammer fist him so the ref doesn't stand it up, and lets give him a weak kidy shot so it looks like Im doing something on the ground.

I have watched enough of Tito to know that hes useless in the ring. Yes he wins, but I'd rather watch paint dry.

And to re state what this topic is about, THATS THE CHEAPEAST MOVE IN MMA the lay and gay... which Tito is a master

watching ufc in the beginning was a good indication that you think MMA is a good sport, watching is now is not what MMA is so because you have been watching ufc for 6 years, and see the TUF fighters get into the ufc doesn't make you an expert.

Knowing fighting styles, know how they work and the intricacies or each style, know how to analize a fight and see where the fighters could improve make you an expert. Not watching Tito sit in the ring and think that's a good fight


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> You see a lot more UFC fighers sprawling becuse they are WRESTLERS!!!! wow, get it threw your head
> 
> "Tito is clearly a GnP specialist, just watch all of his fight, that is plan and simple all you have to do to realize this!" THATS NOT A SPECIALITY lay and gay isn't a specialty its an annoyence, beside Tito being a dumb ass, thats why he never had his contract renewed, he doesn't produce a show, he makes a joke of the sport. If i wanted to watch a wrestling match Id watch the olympics, this is an MMA battle, not lets lay on top of my competitor and hammer fist him so the ref doesn't stand it up, and lets give him a weak kidy shot so it looks like Im doing something on the ground.
> 
> ...



Since when did I say UFC fighter or wrestlers don’t sprawl? Seriously stop making shit up just to have something to say. TITO IS NOT A LNP FIGHTER HE IS A GNP FIGHTER! Damnit, why don’t you just try to actually watch some of his fights? “He never got his contract renewed”, again you have no idea what you are talking about, he held out and then got his contract renewed to where he is one of the highest paid UFC fighters, again you show your lack of knowledge! How many times are you going to embarrass yourself? You don’t know anything about me, I said that I have been watching MMA for 6 years not just the UFC, I love the sport and watch it every time I have the chance. That is why I actually know what is going on in every fight with out using google unlike you. I know every fighting style and what styles make what fights. You just use the internet to learn the terminology and pick up what knowledge here and there you can, but as I’m sure you figuring out, that doesn’t work in a debate.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Since when did I say UFC fighter or wrestlers don’t sprawl? Seriously stop making shit up just to have something to say. TITO IS NOT A LNP FIGHTER HE IS A GNP FIGHTER! Damnit, why don’t you just try to actually watch some of his fights? “He never got his contract renewed”, again you have no idea what you are talking about, he held out and then got his contract renewed to where he is one of the highest paid UFC fighters, again you show your lack of knowledge! How many times are you going to embarrass yourself? You don’t know anything about me, I said that I have been watching MMA for 6 years not just the UFC, I love the sport and watch it every time I have the chance. That is why I actually know what is going on in every fight with out using google unlike you. I know every fighting style and what styles make what fights. You just use the internet to learn the terminology and pick up what knowledge here and there you can, but as I’m sure you figuring out, that doesn’t work in a debate.


Wow not once i have said that i use the internet, Every Tuesday night is fight night up in cananda, where the Fight network shows all old payper view from pride, TKO and ufc, and then other ones like Muay Thai and Vale Tudo, and they come out with new matches every season, so as you sit there and say im new because i just joined this fourm makes you look ignorant. 

This is coming from the person who said Spawling is the most effective to a shoot (im summerizing what you said ealier its not word for word, its called paraphrase). AHAHAHAH if you think spawling is more effective then a knee i think you have your priorities mistaken in the world of MMA.

and wrestling is good to have a a 3rd or 4rd style of fighting, just because the whole premis of the wrestling sport is to take down and score points when you gain a better position. (and don't think i dont know anyting about wrestling i used to wrestle and krate (so i do know a thing or to about figthing)) sorry if you are the top dog around here, but your logic makes no sense.

And i never said he doesn't have a contract, I'm saying Dana didn't want to renew his contract because he doesn't bring in money to the venues. Tito is a waste of a good wrestling talent.

Besides Ken (who is old now so hes not what he used to be) who else did Tito KO from your "GnP" skills? 

I just know that i can't think of anyone that has been knocked out by his LaG style. But if you look at Dan the Beast Serven, now that's GnP, Tito doesn't not look like Dan at all in the ring.

But again, you are going to come back with some stupid post saying i dont know what im talking about and blah blah blah.


ohh and im sorry to use the internet to help ya out on this one (because i didn't know) but he has only KO'd Evan Tanner... Good, but not respectable.


----------



## spamloverman (Oct 31, 2006)

I like Evan Tanner and I think he'll climb the ladder back to contender status BUT I thought the way he started the fight against David Loiseau was kinda slippery. I know you should always be ready in a fight BUT when an opponent tries to show you respect by putting his hand out to sort of say 'Good luck, let's have a good fight' and you suddenly lunge at him with a superman punch (I think that's what I remember seeing), then WTF!!?!??!? :dunno:


----------



## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

daman5 said:


> ohh and im sorry to use the internet to help ya out on this one (because i didn't know) but he has only KO'd Evan Tanner... Good, but not respectable.


I heard it was a headbutt....which is illegal....:dunno:


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> I heard it was a headbutt....which is illegal....:dunno:


wow... i think you might be right... but it is allowed in Vale Tudo, have you ever seen that man?


----------



## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

the point, was that it is illegal... if it was legal, it wouldn't be cheap...


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

pt447 said:


> the point, was that it is illegal... if it was legal, it wouldn't be cheap...


your right, in UFC its illigal, im not disputing that... but in ANOTHER league, it is legal, and its crazy to watch that... cuz it looks like it hurts when they try and do it hard......


ooohh and did i mention then Anderson Silva has fought in that league........ so i just dont think you full understand


----------



## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

daman5 said:


> your right, in UFC its illigal, im not disputing that... but in ANOTHER league, it is legal, and its crazy to watch that... cuz it looks like it hurts when they try and do it hard......
> 
> 
> ooohh and did i mention then Anderson Silva has fought in that league........ so i just dont think you full understand


cool cool... if you've ever seen "smashing machine" you know what a headbutt can do... and what it sounds like


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

pt447 said:


> cool cool... if you've ever seen "smashing machine" you know what a headbutt can do... and what it sounds like


lol ya that nasty cracking sound (most of that is the teeth banging together gut it still sounds like it is retardly hard)


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Wow not once i have said that i use the internet, Every Tuesday night is fight night up in cananda, where the Fight network shows all old payper view from pride, TKO and ufc, and then other ones like Muay Thai and Vale Tudo, and they come out with new matches every season, so as you sit there and say im new because i just joined this fourm makes you look ignorant.
> 
> This is coming from the person who said Spawling is the most effective to a shoot (im summerizing what you said ealier its not word for word, its called paraphrase). AHAHAHAH if you think spawling is more effective then a knee i think you have your priorities mistaken in the world of MMA.
> 
> ...



I never said that you said you were using the internet to look stuff up, it is just obvious that is what you are doing. Also I never said you were new to MMA just because you are new to this forum, once again you are just making stuff up, I said you are new to MMA because of the statements you are making. Not every one can land one knee and knock there opponent out so, sprawling would be the best way to counter a shoot. I’m not saying kneeing does not work at all and people shouldn’t try it every now and then but if they miss they are off balance and going to the ground for sure. So yes, sprawling would be more effective than a knee. Once again you show how much you don’t know by saying that Dana didn’t want Tito and that Tito doesn’t sell tickets and ppv. Haha, that is one of the stupidest things you have said yet. Dana signed Tito for the money that Tito wanted because he knows that people want to see Tito fight and that he does sells tickets and PPV. And I don’t need the internet or your help on the Evan Tanner fight, I have seen it, Tito KO’d him with a slam.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:



> I heard it was a headbutt....which is illegal....:dunno:


Nope, it was a slam. Have none of you guys seen that fight?


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> I never said that you said you were using the internet to look stuff up, it is just obvious that is what you are doing. Also I never said you were new to MMA just because you are new to this forum, once again you are just making stuff up, I said you are new to MMA because of the statements you are making. Not every one can land one knee and knock there opponent out so, sprawling would be the best way to counter a shoot. I’m not saying kneeing does not work at all and people shouldn’t try it every now and then but if they miss they are off balance and going to the ground for sure. So yes, sprawling would be more effective than a knee. Once again you show how much you don’t know by saying that Dana didn’t want Tito and that Tito doesn’t sell tickets and ppv. Haha, that is one of the stupidest things you have said yet. Dana signed Tito for the money that Tito wanted because he knows that people want to see Tito fight and that he does sells tickets and PPV. And I don’t need the internet or your help on the Evan Tanner fight, I have seen it, Tito KO’d him with a slam.



Wow, you are wrong. I never realized how erong 1 person could be. If any of you watch UFC unleashed you can see SOOOO many unsuccessful shoots that were countered by a knee and or stopped by a quick punch.... SOOO MANY, So man... you think you know it all but you are wrong...

and i dont look up anything on the net, execpt crappy records of fighters i dont think are good, like Tito. 

So TLB, next time you watch a UFC match watch of an unsuccesful shoot, and if it wasn't a spawl, its going to be a counter. But most of the ufc watchers think a shoot starts when its connected to your opponent, WRONG. It starts when the fighter lowers his head and looks for that take down, and its usually stopped when that happens, because i gaurantee more shoot attemps are disruppeted by a shot to the face or a knee to the body/face then a spawl.... so again you are wrong.

And Dana doesn't like Tito because hes a whinny little *****, who doesn't sell tickets because hes a LnG fighter. PEROID. HAHAHA a slam knocked him out, AHAHAHA that proves it even more how bad of a fighter he is, when your only knock out is a slam. If you are a GnP specialist then you should be POUNDING him out, not having a ref stoppage, or a decision because then you didn't finish the job. Sorry my friend thats not GnP, it's LnG

But again you will say im wrong and that you know it all because you have been watching UFC for 6 years... blah blah blah, but for a person who has been watching this for that long, and you still think that a sprawl is the best defence to a shoot, you dont know how wrong you are. you are so wrong that its going to be hard to arguee with you because you dont listen to any points that i have to say.

cuz last night in UFC unleashed I was pointing out sooooo many unsuccessful shoots where the fighter kneed and got the wrestler off his balance and then stepped to the side and wasn't taken down. AND THAT WAS JUST 1 NIGHT.... so to this so called fourm "champ" its eveident that you really don't know what you are talking about.... and since you don't use the internet to find your information, maybe you should it might help you out alittle.


And as for the slam, it's really only used in pride to stack someone up and get them out of a arm bar that you might in.... Its effective, but to knock someone out from it is pathitic.

I dont know how much clearier i can tell you that you are wrong, and you have been wrong since you started to post.. but it was fun debating this topic because it proves that UFC watchers think that wrestlers are better than the world.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Wow, you are wrong. I never realized how erong 1 person could be. If any of you watch UFC unleashed you can see SOOOO many unsuccessful shoots that were countered by a knee and or stopped by a quick punch.... SOOO MANY, So man... you think you know it all but you are wrong...
> 
> and i dont look up anything on the net, execpt crappy records of fighters i dont think are good, like Tito.
> 
> ...


Man, calling you an idiot never gets old. Look at the facts man, Tito does sell tickets and PPV, that is why Dana signed him as one of the highest paid fighters. That is a fact so stop saying he doesn’t sell tickets, you don’t know what you are talking about. You said his only knock out is a slam, how many times in one thread do I have to point out to you that he knocked out Ken Shamrock. And you say it is pathetic that he knocked some one out with a slam. Hahaha, you are an idiot, the point is to stop the fight and he did that in like 22 second with the slam. How is that pathetic? Do you think that Rampage was not trying to knock Arona out with that slam, or that Kevin Randleman was not trying to knock Fedor out with his slam? So once again it is you that is wrong. Again Tito does not just lay there he GnP, he didn’t stop Cote, but he hit him with about 200 elbows. And what is wrong with a ref stoppage? How is that not a good way to win? Again you are just making stuff up, I didn’t say wrestlers are the best, I said it is important for a MMA fighter to have wrestling skills. Again, you have nothing, you have no points, and you are the one that is wrong.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Man, calling you an idiot never gets old. Look at the facts man, Tito does sell tickets and PPV, that is why Dana signed him as one of the highest paid fighters. That is a fact so stop saying he doesn’t sell tickets, you don’t know what you are talking about. You said his only knock out is a slam, how many times in one thread do I have to point out to you that he knocked out Ken Shamrock. And you say it is pathetic that he knocked some one out with a slam. Hahaha, you are an idiot, the point is to stop the fight and he did that in like 22 second with the slam. How is that pathetic? Do you think that Rampage was not trying to knock Arona out with that slam, or that Kevin Randleman was not trying to knock Fedor out with his slam? So once again it is you that is wrong. Again Tito does not just lay there he GnP, he didn’t stop Cote, but he hit him with about 200 elbows. And what is wrong with a ref stoppage? How is that not a good way to win? Again you are just making stuff up, I didn’t say wrestlers are the best, I said it is important for a MMA fighter to have wrestling skills. Again, you have nothing, you have no points, and you are the one that is wrong.



I dont even know what to say, because im still flabbergasted that you think spawl is the best defence, Its about 85% other defence to 15% sprawl, for when a wrestler moves in for a shoot.... here is a picture you can put in your head and then hopfully you can see what im talking about.

Your body in a fight is like a castle, and a shoot is like an army trying to attack your castle. You see this army moving up, so you place your archers (in this case your punches) to take out the army, if your archers dont do the job, then you have moat, (which is your knees that are closer to your body thats why they are the moat) IF thats unsuccessful then you have the wall (which is like a side step because it has a poential to miss) once the other army breaks threw your wall you have your villagers, and the rest of your army (and that defence thats there is your spawl).....

Now if you understand that you can see that (as i have been saying FOREVER NOW) a Sprawl is your last ditch effeort, so there for it is used, and there for you do see it...... BUT ITS NOT THE BEST, you would hope your castle defence would be better.

and its to hard to argue with this moron, because he doesn't give any hard facts, he just quotes me and then says that im wrong doesn't provide any evidence on how im wrong, just says it because "hes the man" and if you look at everyone of my posts they are coming up orginial with new ways to tell him that hes wrong....

im not making this up, none of it. I have seen enough fights to analize them and relize that a spawl is good to have but a knee to any part of the body throws the shooter off balance. And if anyone dissagrees with that they are as wrong as this numpty.

and to stir up the pot alittle more, UFC is like the womens basketball of MMA.. It's good to watch if it's the only thing on, but boring to any other MMA league.


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> I dont even know what to say, because im still flabbergasted that you think spawl is the best defence, Its about 85% other defence to 15% sprawl, for when a wrestler moves in for a shoot.... here is a picture you can put in your head and then hopfully you can see what im talking about.
> 
> Your body in a fight is like a castle, and a shoot is like an army trying to attack your castle. You see this army moving up, so you place your archers (in this case your punches) to take out the army, if your archers dont do the job, then you have moat, (which is your knees that are closer to your body thats why they are the moat) IF thats unsuccessful then you have the wall (which is like a side step because it has a poential to miss) once the other army breaks threw your wall you have your villagers, and the rest of your army (and that defence thats there is your spawl).....
> 
> ...


Wow man, you are so far out of touch with reality, your little "castle" comparison is ridiculous and childish. When someone shoots for a takedown, your FIRST defense is to sprawl, you are far more vuneralbe to be taken down when throwing punches or using you "archers" haha, because your feet are planted and you are shifting weight forward, all you have to do is duck under and grap the planted feet and down you go! It is painfully obvious that you have absolutely NO grappling/fighting experience. You go ahead and try your "castle" theory and you will see how ridiculous it is while you are on your back getting pounded. And as for you comparing UFC to womens basketball...........hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! You are so far off the reservation my dim-witted friend, so far off. Dont even start that arguement, I will absolutely bury you.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Wow man, you are so far out of touch with reality, your little "castle" comparison is ridiculous and childish. When someone shoots for a takedown, your FIRST defense is to sprawl, you are far more vuneralbe to be taken down when throwing punches or using you "archers" haha, because your feet are planted and you are shifting weight forward, all you have to do is duck under and grap the planted feet and down you go! It is painfully obvious that you have absolutely NO grappling/fighting experience. You go ahead and try your "castle" theory and you will see how ridiculous it is while you are on your back getting pounded. And as for you comparing UFC to womens basketball...........hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! You are so far off the reservation my dim-witted friend, so far off. Dont even start that arguement, I will absolutely bury you.


all i have to this dumb commet is, Anderson Silva, said in and interview before the fight "that this is a chess game, you move the wrong peice you are going to lose". AND NOW HIS YOUR CHAMP, listen you little chump. And if you cant make the connection between my "castle" anoligy, and the chess game and fighting, then you really dont know whats going on in a fight.

UFC is a Mid level fighting league, name anyone in the UFC who can take out any Pride champ. You can't. It can't be done. So therefore UFC isn't as good, and womens basketball just isn't as good a mens.... AHAH and these guy have "champs" in there name in this fourm.... hahaha just because they posted a lot HAHA


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> I dont even know what to say, because im still flabbergasted that you think spawl is the best defence, Its about 85% other defence to 15% sprawl, for when a wrestler moves in for a shoot.... here is a picture you can put in your head and then hopfully you can see what im talking about.
> 
> Your body in a fight is like a castle, and a shoot is like an army trying to attack your castle. You see this army moving up, so you place your archers (in this case your punches) to take out the army, if your archers dont do the job, then you have moat, (which is your knees that are closer to your body thats why they are the moat) IF thats unsuccessful then you have the wall (which is like a side step because it has a poential to miss) once the other army breaks threw your wall you have your villagers, and the rest of your army (and that defence thats there is your spawl).....
> 
> ...



Hahaha, I have laughed at every single one of your post! What facts have you brought up to show me I am wrong? NONE! It is me that is proving you wrong, you said Tito doesn’t sell and Dana White didn’t want him, which is wrong. Why did you quote hes the man? I have not said that at all, there you go again making stuff up, you have done that in every post. Do you think people are just reading your post and they are just going to believe you? So far I have had two people agree with me, you are wrong, just accept that and shut up. You are making your self look dumber and dumber in every post. “UFC is like women’s basketball”, hahaha, you are so far out of touch.


----------



## CTFlyingKnee (Jul 5, 2006)

this guy is an idiot.....hence why Ive been ignoring his stupid ass remarks but that UFC is the Women's Basketball of MMA was really a keeper stat  hahahahahahhaa


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Hahaha, you have nothing so now you are just making stuff up, haha. What does it matter that Ken is old, you didn’t even know that Tito KO’d him, so you just bring up he is old, haha. Tito is clearly a GnP specialist, just watch all of his fight, that is plan and simple all you have to do to realize this! I never said knees aren’t affective, again you are just making shit up, all I said is that you see a lot more sprawling will success than people throwing knees will success, again you have nothing so you are making stuff up! I have had a great laugh at your post AGAIN! My facts are straight, it is you that have been stating bullshit, so seriously stop telling ME to check the facts, idiot. I can’t believe you went on and on talking about wrestling and sprawling, what is your point? I get all of that. I already stated that I have been watching MMA for about 6 years so don’t try and say I am new to the sport when you clearly have to google every single thing you have brought up! You clearly don’t get how MMA works, why wont you just give up?


Ok, Let's take a step back in time here, I have yet to really analize your shit you are talking about. 

"...you said Tito doesn’t sell and Dana White didn’t want him, which is wrong."
Now lets talk business here for a second (because that's really what UFC is about)

There is a ‘Grudge match’ has to wait Sunday, October 22, 2006"
www.lockflow.com

To have a grude match, someone has to be mad at someone. And that's a big reason why you never really seen Tito latley in a PPV event. Dana doesn't like him as a person (but it's Business we are talking about here, not like ablilty). So we have to look at why Tito doesn't like Dana, and why Dana doesn't like Tito. Tito DIDN'T fight in PPV events because Dana doesn't doesn't like to watch his fighting style. It doesn't make for explosive fights, Tito wins but he wins because the score card is more geard for wrestlers to win they have most dominate position.

And to watch Tito wrestle people is boring for TV viewing and there for doesn't sell, which is why you only see Tito on TV and not on many PPV events.
(Evidance peice 1)

"Why did you quote hes the man? I have not said that at all, there you go again making stuff up, you have done that in every post. " - from last post

"Tito is clearly a GnP specialist..." - from a few posts ago

to say someone is specialist is to say hes very very good, to appericate his skill you have to say that you have respect for him, and to have repsect for him, means that you have to like his fighting style............ hummm 
(Evidance peice 2)

Do you think people are just reading your post and they are just going to believe you?

There has been 1 person to agree with me too, so to sit there and say you have people backing you is a lie
(Evidence peice 3)


“UFC is like women’s basketball”, Prove me wrong, who do you think can beat a Pride champ. It can't be done because UFC isn't in the same level as a lot of MMA leagues I'm just saying Pride because you have heard of them.

And this is just from diceting 1 of your posts.... don't make me prove you wrong in every post... So if you are just going to keep running your post around in circles then its hard to have a decent debate.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

CTFlyingKnee said:


> this guy is an idiot.....hence why Ive been ignoring his stupid ass remarks but that UFC is the Women's Basketball of MMA was really a keeper stat  hahahahahahhaa


Haha, UFC is the women’s basketball of MMA” and “knocking someone out with a slam is pathetic” and this guy expects to be taken serious! Haha.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Haha, UFC is the women’s basketball of MMA” and “knocking someone out with a slam is pathetic” and this guy expects to be taken serious! Haha.


Dude this isn't WWF slams dont hurt that much unless they hit a soft spot on the persons head... and theres really only 3 spots on your head that could knock you out from a slam (temple which is unlikey to happen) and at the base of your skull where it meets the back of your neck (that soft spot will put you to sleep too but if you see slams .. thats usually where they end up knocking out the oppenont)


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Ok, Let's take a step back in time here, I have yet to really analize your shit you are talking about.
> 
> "...you said Tito doesn’t sell and Dana White didn’t want him, which is wrong."
> Now lets talk business here for a second (because that's really what UFC is about)
> ...



Haha, do you really think you proved me wrong. You are the biggest idiot I have EVER encountered on this forum! Tito and Dana used to be good friends, Dana even managed him at one period of time, the reason he doesn’t like Tito is because of business. So every thing you said about Tito and Dana was wrong. Tito has been in several PPV and has had only one tv appearance, so you are wrong again. Even if Dana doesn’t like his fighting style, he is still a smart business man and knows he sells tickets and PPV which is why he resigned him. You are wrong AGAIN! I won’t even take the time to pick apart the rest of your post, you were done a long time ago. You clearly don’t have the knowledge to keep up with me so just drop it man.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Dude this isn't WWF slams dont hurt that much unless they hit a soft spot on the persons head... and theres really only 3 spots on your head that could knock you out from a slam (temple which is unlikey to happen) and at the base of your skull where it meets the back of your neck (that soft spot will put you to sleep too but if you see slams .. thats usually where they end up knocking out the oppenont)



What the **** are you talking about? I never said MMA was any thing like WWF, why do you keep making stuff up? Let some one slam the shit out of you and then try to tell me it doesn’t hurt, even if you don’t get knocked out it will still hurt. Plus you said Tito knocking Evan Tanner out with a slam was pathetic. So what does your explanation of how a slam knocks some one out have to do with your statement?


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> all i have to this dumb commet is, Anderson Silva, said in and interview before the fight "that this is a chess game, you move the wrong peice you are going to lose". AND NOW HIS YOUR CHAMP, listen you little chump. And if you cant make the connection between my "castle" anoligy, and the chess game and fighting, then you really dont know whats going on in a fight.
> 
> UFC is a Mid level fighting league, name anyone in the UFC who can take out any Pride champ. You can't. It can't be done. So therefore UFC isn't as good, and womens basketball just isn't as good a mens.... AHAH and these guy have "champs" in there name in this fourm.... hahaha just because they posted a lot HAHA


hahahaha, I am torn between ignoring you because of your childish ignorance or making a fool of you................................ I think I'll do a little of both, First, your beloved Pride champ Vanderlei Silva has a record of 1-2 in the UFC, the only guy he beat in the UFC was a chump. Tito Ortiz beat his moneky ass! Vitor Belfort SMASHED him. Pride has a HUGE number of B level fighters and freakshow fights, no wonder their top guys seem so good, they fight a bunch of no talent HACKS! How many times have we seen some poor Japanese guy with no real MMA crudentials get destroyed by Pride's champs? ALOT, they dont really fight anybody, Their divisions are made up of nobodies and has beens. Every single fighter in the UFC has earned their spot to be there. Pride also takes all of the UFC's washed up fighters and signs them, most do very well over there like Mark Coleman, Phil Baroni, Josh Barnett, Guy Metzger, Vitor Belfort, Vanderlei Silva, Mark Kerr, Don Frye, Ken Shamrock, and many many more. ( I apologize to those who have heard me say this 100 times now, but it must be done! ) So what do you have to say to that smart guy? YOU tell me how Pride is better, bet you can't! and I have plenty more where that came from.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> hahahaha, I am torn between ignoring you because of your childish ignorance or making a fool of you................................ I think I'll do a little of both, First, your beloved Pride champ Vanderlei Silva has a record of 1-2 in the UFC, the only guy he beat in the UFC was a chump. Tito Ortiz beat his moneky ass! Vitor Belfort SMASHED him. Pride has a HUGE number of B level fighters and freakshow fights, no wonder their top guys seem so good, they fight a bunch of no talent HACKS! How many times have we seen some poor Japanese guy with no real MMA crudentials get destroyed by Pride's champs? ALOT, they dont really fight anybody, Their divisions are made up of nobodies and has beens. Every single fighter in the UFC has earned their spot to be there. Pride also takes all of the UFC's washed up fighters and signs them, most do very well over there like Mark Coleman, Phil Baroni, Josh Barnett, Guy Metzger, Vitor Belfort, Vanderlei Silva, Mark Kerr, Don Frye, Ken Shamrock, and many many more. ( I apologize to those who have heard me say this 100 times now, but it must be done! ) So what do you have to say to that smart guy? YOU tell me how Pride is better, bet you can't! and I have plenty more where that came from.



if anyone readys anything from this guy and thinks hes right is just as wrong as he is......


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Dude this isn't WWF slams dont hurt that much unless they hit a soft spot on the persons head... and theres really only 3 spots on your head that could knock you out from a slam (temple which is unlikey to happen) and at the base of your skull where it meets the back of your neck (that soft spot will put you to sleep too but if you see slams .. thats usually where they end up knocking out the oppenont)


WOW, WOW, WOW, I cannot beleive the level of stupidity you have reached. Lets look back at some classic slams in MMA, Matt Hughes KOed Carlos Newton with a slam ( not a soft spot ) Tito Ortiz KOed Evan tanner with a slam ( not on a soft spot ) Quinton Jackson KOed Arona with a slam ( not a soft spot ) I think there is a soft spot between your ears man. Slams hurt ALOT! all your your weight and all of your opponents weight crashing down on a not so soft ground, yeah they hurt.


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> if anyone readys anything from this guy and thinks hes right is just as wrong as he is......


Prove me wrong jackass, everything in that post is 100% fact! I bet you can't prove one single thing I said wrong. I am right dumbass


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> WOW, WOW, WOW, I cannot beleive the level of stupidity you have reached. Lets look back at some classic slams in MMA, Matt Hughes KOed Carlos Newton with a slam ( not a soft spot ) Tito Ortiz KOed Evan tanner with a slam ( not on a soft spot ) Quinton Jackson KOed Arona with a slam ( not a soft spot ) I think there is a soft spot between your ears man. Slams hurt ALOT! all your your weight and all of your opponents weight crashing down on a not so soft ground, yeah they hurt.


A Newton feel from the top on the cage and landed on the BACK OF HIS HEAD WHERE THE SFOT SPOT IS ... ugh wow morons

i dont have hours to prove every single one of you morons wrong.. remember they are slamming there oppenont on a MAT!!! its softer then concret.. thats why its not as bad.. but again thanks for coming out


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> WOW, WOW, WOW, I cannot beleive the level of stupidity you have reached. Lets look back at some classic slams in MMA, Matt Hughes KOed Carlos Newton with a slam ( not a soft spot ) Tito Ortiz KOed Evan tanner with a slam ( not on a soft spot ) Quinton Jackson KOed Arona with a slam ( not a soft spot ) I think there is a soft spot between your ears man. Slams hurt ALOT! all your your weight and all of your opponents weight crashing down on a not so soft ground, yeah they hurt.



and ALOT is 2 words (so its not 100%)


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> A Newton feel from the top on the cage and landed on the BACK OF HIS HEAD WHERE THE SFOT SPOT IS ... ugh wow morons
> 
> i dont have hours to prove every single one of you morons wrong.. remember they are slamming there oppenont on a MAT!!! its softer then concret.. thats why its not as bad.. but again thanks for coming out


No you dont have the ABILITY to prove me wrong, you engaged in this arguement, now you are backing out because you have NOTHING! and you use a lame excuse like "i dont have time" hahaha YOU LOSE, YOU HAVE NOTHING, so go on and get outta here before you are further embarassed.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

"I think there is a soft spot between your ears man" yes but to hit that pressure point you must have mass amount of pressure thats condenced right be hind the ear underneet the ear lobe


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> and ALOT is 2 words (so its not 100%)


good one you childish punk


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> A Newton feel from the top on the cage and landed on the BACK OF HIS HEAD WHERE THE SFOT SPOT IS ... ugh wow morons
> 
> i dont have hours to prove every single one of you morons wrong.. remember they are slamming there oppenont on a MAT!!! its softer then concret.. thats why its not as bad.. but again thanks for coming out


Hahaha, you finally realize you have nothing a just give up, I can’t believe it took you this long! Even if you had weeks you couldn’t prove either one of us wrong! It is me that has consistently been proving you wrong. You have not been able to prove me wrong AT ALL and now that some one else jumps in you wont even attempt it.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> No you dont have the ABILITY to prove me wrong, you engaged in this arguement, now you are backing out because you have NOTHING! and you use a lame excuse like "i dont have time" hahaha YOU LOSE, YOU HAVE NOTHING, so go on and get outta here before you are further embarassed.



I did.. newton feel from the top the cage whille newton had huges in a triangle choke, they were both knoced out but Matt hughes was KO'd before but since he fell of the top of the cage and landed on the soft spot on his head.. it knocked him out..

but thanks again for saying you are 100%


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> "I think there is a soft spot between your ears man" yes but to hit that pressure point you must have mass amount of pressure thats condenced right be hind the ear underneet the ear lobe


I think you misunderstood that phrase, when I said you have a soft spot between your ears, I was insulting your intelligence, and you telling me how to hit that spot just proves me right, hahahaha how old are you?


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Hahaha, you finally realize you have nothing a just give up, I can’t believe it took you this long! Even if you had weeks you couldn’t prove either one of us wrong! It is me that has consistently been proving you wrong. You have not been able to prove me wrong AT ALL and now that some one else jumps in you wont even attempt it.



I can't prove you wrong because you say 2 different things, i prove you wrong but then you foccus on a different point and then blow that out of preportion, and then i prove you wrong again.. and then you focus on somethign other thing .. and then you think you prove that wrong, then i rebut and you look into my rebut and try and find something else.. and never answer any of my question.. the only one you have ever answered was that you dont think UFC is like womens basketball


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> I did.. newton feel from the top the cage whille newton had huges in a triangle choke, they were both knoced out but Matt hughes was KO'd before but since he fell of the top of the cage and landed on the soft spot on his head.. it knocked him out..
> 
> but thanks again for saying you are 100%


The point is, Newton got slammed, Newton was out cold, so what does that tell us? the mat is not as soft as you claim it is, and that slams do hurt, and I am still 100%


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> I think you misunderstood that phrase, when I said you have a soft spot between your ears, I was insulting your intelligence, and you telling me how to hit that spot just proves me right, hahahaha how old are you?


i know and if you have been readin my replies you would have noticed that i accknoledge it and said that is does exist, but if you look at what i said along time ago you would relize that i said there are 3 soft spots that can knock you out.. and behind the ears doens't get hurt from a slam... but now you are trying to prove me wrong.. when i am actual agreeing with you about that spot behind each ear.. 

slams are only effective when you hit thoes soft spots on your head.. and YES THEY DO HAPPEN but i have seen more knock out from a knee to the head when someone shoots then a ko from a slam


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> I can't prove you wrong because you say 2 different things, i prove you wrong but then you foccus on a different point and then blow that out of preportion, and then i prove you wrong again.. and then you focus on somethign other thing .. and then you think you prove that wrong, then i rebut and you look into my rebut and try and find something else.. and never answer any of my question.. the only one you have ever answered was that you dont think UFC is like womens basketball


Bro, I have read every post between you and TLB, and in NO way shape or form have you proved him wrong, not even close, you just make wild accusations, like womens basketball, and your retarded castle theory and that Pride champs are unbeatable. You have brought no facts to the table at all, just misguided oppinions and accusations


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> I can't prove you wrong because you say 2 different things, i prove you wrong but then you foccus on a different point and then blow that out of preportion, and then i prove you wrong again.. and then you focus on somethign other thing .. and then you think you prove that wrong, then i rebut and you look into my rebut and try and find something else.. and never answer any of my question.. the only one you have ever answered was that you dont think UFC is like womens basketball


Haha, You are so full of shit! You have not been able to prove me wrong about anything. I have been able to prove something you said was wrong in every post. Here it is again, you are in a fantasy world just making stuff up. It’s hilarious because it’s clear you don’t even realize you are making a complete jackass of yourself.


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> i know and if you have been readin my replies you would have noticed that i accknoledge it and said that is does exist, but if you look at what i said along time ago you would relize that i said there are 3 soft spots that can knock you out.. and behind the ears doens't get hurt from a slam... but now you are trying to prove me wrong.. when i am actual agreeing with you about that spot behind each ear..
> 
> slams are only effective when you hit thoes soft spots on your head.. and YES THEY DO HAPPEN but i have seen more knock out from a knee to the head when someone shoots then a ko from a slam


haha you still dont get it, you BRAIN is BETWEEN YOUR EARS, I WAS SAYING THAT YOUR BRAIN IS YOUR SOFT SPOT, IN OTHER WORDS YOU ARE STUPID. you just have no idea whats going on here. And explain this to me, when Tito KOed Evan Tanner, Tanner landed FLAT on his back, and he was out COLD.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Wow, you are wrong. I never realized how erong 1 person could be. If any of you watch UFC unleashed you can see SOOOO many unsuccessful shoots that were countered by a knee and or stopped by a quick punch.... SOOO MANY, So man... you think you know it all but you are wrong...
> 
> and i dont look up anything on the net, execpt crappy records of fighters i dont think are good, like Tito.
> 
> ...



this is a post from me.... its a lot of proof that you are wrong, but yet you still think that no prof has been provided when.. i did it in 1 post and i could do it over and over with more research.... and this is where we started again.. DO SOME RESEARCH 

and to let people know, im quoting myself because this numpty thinks that everything he says it right


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> haha you still dont get it, you BRAIN is BETWEEN YOUR EARS, I WAS SAYING THAT YOUR BRAIN IS YOUR SOFT SPOT, IN OTHER WORDS YOU ARE STUPID. you just have no idea whats going on here. And explain this to me, when Tito KOed Evan Tanner, Tanner landed FLAT on his back, and he was out COLD.


well so you are avoiding the whole newton thing (becuse i just watched that fight not to long ago, so i know you are wrong in the newton one)

but as for the even tanner, id have to see that match as i said in a ealier post i haven't seen that match because i dont like watching tito fight because it like watching paint dry... so you provide me a link on where i can watch it and ill give you what pressure point it hit on his head


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

TLB said:


> Man, calling you an idiot never gets old. Look at the facts man, Tito does sell tickets and PPV, that is why Dana signed him as one of the highest paid fighters. That is a fact so stop saying he doesn’t sell tickets, you don’t know what you are talking about. You said his only knock out is a slam, how many times in one thread do I have to point out to you that he knocked out Ken Shamrock. And you say it is pathetic that he knocked some one out with a slam. Hahaha, you are an idiot, the point is to stop the fight and he did that in like 22 second with the slam. How is that pathetic? Do you think that Rampage was not trying to knock Arona out with that slam, or that Kevin Randleman was not trying to knock Fedor out with his slam? So once again it is you that is wrong. Again Tito does not just lay there he GnP, he didn’t stop Cote, but he hit him with about 200 elbows. And what is wrong with a ref stoppage? How is that not a good way to win? Again you are just making stuff up, I didn’t say wrestlers are the best, I said it is important for a MMA fighter to have wrestling skills. Again, you have nothing, you have no points, and you are the one that is wrong.



And this is the post where I made you look like an idiot again after that post. And once again you have nothing so now you’re bringing up old shit you said just to keep posting. Haha, I can’t believe you brought the post back up where you said knocking some one out with a slam is pathetic. Haha.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Bro, I have read every post between you and TLB, and in NO way shape or form have you proved him wrong, not even close, you just make wild accusations, like womens basketball, and your retarded castle theory and that Pride champs are unbeatable. You have brought no facts to the table at all, just misguided oppinions and accusations


Here it is plan and simple for you man.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> And this is the post where I made you look like an idiot again after that post. And once again you have nothing so now you’re bringing up old shit you said just to keep posting. Haha, I can’t believe you brought the post back up where you said knocking some one out with a slam is pathetic. Haha.


Yes and as you said .. its all business, and i proved to you that hes not a head line fighter because "its all business" UFC thinks that you all want to see blood, and gore and the only way Tito can deliver that, is by beating up shamrock.

so shut it.. you just keep running in circles...

and as i was saying to the other person there are 3 spots that you can be ko'd


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> well so you are avoiding the whole newton thing (becuse i just watched that fight not to long ago, so i know you are wrong in the newton one)
> 
> but as for the even tanner, id have to see that match as i said in a ealier post i haven't seen that match because i dont like watching tito fight because it like watching paint dry... so you provide me a link on where i can watch it and ill give you what pressure point it hit on his head


Holy shit man, I didnt avoid anything, I brought the Newton fight up dumbass! And we just talked about it a few posts ago. The bottom line is this, he got slammed, he got KOed, so whats your point? I could give a shit less about a soft spot, of a pressure point, it doesnt matter, YOU CAN EASILY KO SOMEONE WITH A SLAM, IT HAPPENS ALOT MORE THAN YOU THINK. Go watch Matt Lindland and Flankiko Vitale, Lindland falls and hits the top of his head, clearly a hard spot, all skull. and he went to sleep. The think that knocks you out is the force of impact, vibration of the brain, and shock.


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

hey Daman5, I thought you said that you dont have time to prove me wrong, thats funny you are still here and still posting. I think you are dodging me!


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Yes and as you said .. its all business, and i proved to you that hes not a head line fighter because "its all business" UFC thinks that you all want to see blood, and gore and the only way Tito can deliver that, is by beating up shamrock.
> 
> so shut it.. you just keep running in circles...
> 
> and as i was saying to the other person there are 3 spots that you can be ko'd


Haha, how did you prove to me he is not a headline fighter? You didn’t, get out of your fantasy world! You said that he is on tv all the time and not on PPV that much, which is not true. You are still wrong. Every fight Tito Ortiz has ever been in was a main even or co main event. No matter how much you want to pretend that is not the case IT IS.


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

TLB said:


> Haha, how did you prove to me he is not a headline fighter? You didn’t, get out of your fantasy world! You said that he is on tv all the time and not on PPV that much, which is not true. You are still wrong. Every fight Tito Ortiz has ever been in was a main even or co main event. No matter how much you want to pretend that is not the case IT IS.


Infact, wasnt Tito's only fight on free TV, Ken and Tito 3? why yes I think it was, hey TLB! isnt Tito's fight against Chuck Liddell the MAIN EVENT in december? hahahaha this guy is off his rocker man.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

*To these 2 morons who just dont seem to get it!*

I have said that you can be KO's by slams... BUT ITS JUST NOT AS LIKELY as being KO'd by a knee for when someone shoots in.... (but yet again you seem to think that spawls are the best defence)


And your brain is in you head.. but protected by your skull... and layers of membrane... so to get therw that it has to hit a soft spot... and the likley of this happening is slim..because it has to hit a soft spot.. and then you are ko'd

And for someone to think Tito makes for a good fight to watch is just an insault to MMA... he only makes it look good when he fights Shamrock...

If you look at the Wanderlei Silva fight, Wanny had him running around the ring until Tito LnG'd him, and thats how he won... and if you got sat on for a title champion belt why would you want to be in that league, and thats why Wanny left a new league.

and as for the slams, as i said they are on a mat, so hitting your body or any pody part will confuse you, but most likely not knock you out.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Infact, wasnt Tito's only fight on free TV, Ken and Tito 3? why yes I think it was, hey TLB! isnt Tito's fight against Chuck Liddell the MAIN EVENT in december? hahahaha this guy is off his rocker man.


Yes but if hes soo skilled why has not have had a main event since SHAMROCK and since then... ummmm when he got rocked by chuck last time which was 2 years ago... but thanks for comming out with that one


ohh wait he headlined with belfort, but that was a gay PPV altogether

and the reason why it was gay was because the only good fight on that card was Arlovski VS Sylia Match WHICH Arlovski subbmitted him!! hahahaah


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Yes but if hes soo skilled why has not have had a main event since SHAMROCK and since then... ummmm when he got rocked by chuck last time which was 2 years ago... but thanks for comming out with that one
> 
> 
> ohh wait he headlined with belfort, but that was a gay PPV altogether


Ok, then I challenge you to find a Tito Ortiz fight in the past few years that wasnt either the main even or the Co-main event. do it, I dare you. The last time it happened was before he fought FRANK SHAMROCK YEARS AGO. AND when Tito fought Ken the second time, the UFC set a new record for attendance and PPV sales, so dont hand me that shit dumbass. 

And one more thing, at the top of one of your posts, you said "these two moron just dont get it" I will bet you that you cannot find ONE SINGLE person that agrees with you, notice how you are fighting this battle all alone?


----------



## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

i'm just going to add, that i think Tito is hugely overrated! he's more mouth than skill and that's why everyone remembers him.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Infact, wasnt Tito's only fight on free TV, Ken and Tito 3? why yes I think it was, hey TLB! isnt Tito's fight against Chuck Liddell the MAIN EVENT in december? hahahaha this guy is off his rocker man.


Yes, you’re right, it’s nice to see some facts coming from some one other than me in this thread.


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

pt447 said:


> i'm just going to add, that i think Tito is hugely overrated! he's more mouth than skill and that's why everyone remembers him.


Come on now PT, thats not true at all, and you know it. People get to Tito's level by talking.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Ok, then I challenge you to find a Tito Ortiz fight in the past few years that wasnt either the main even or the Co-main event. do it, I dare you. The last time it happened was before he fought FRANK SHAMROCK YEARS AGO. AND when Tito fought Ken the second time, the UFC set a new record for attendance and PPV sales, so dont hand me that shit dumbass.
> 
> And one more thing, at the top of one of your posts, you said "these two moron just dont get it" I will bet you that you cannot find ONE SINGLE person that agrees with you, notice how you are fighting this battle all alone?


UFC 52-58, and UFC 60


so from 52-62 so in 10 UFCs hes been in 3......


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> UFC 52-58, and UFC 60
> 
> 
> so from 52-62 so in 10 UFCs hes been in 3......


But he didnt even fight in the other ones! hahaha, EVERY FIGHT THAT TITO IS IN HEADLINES or is the CO-MAIN-EVENT! its fact


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> But he didnt even fight in the other ones! hahaha, EVERY FIGHT THAT TITO IS IN HEADLINES or is the CO-MAIN-EVENT! its fact



see this is why its hard to have a debate with you, you missed the whole point... i said hes not in many PPV events, and you put spin on it and said the events his in which ones has he not co-headlined.... so again you missed the whole point

i said dana doesn't want him in PPV events.... and i just proved it there.. BECAUSE HES A BORING FIGHTER

and if youd like me to keep going from ufc 47-63 (16 events hes had been in 5) i dont know about you but if i worked at a job for over 2 years, and there was a chance that i could get paid for 16 events, and im only allowed to work 5 of them... i might start to think that maybe im not welcome... its not that hes not welcome, its because hes a boring fighter


3 fights in 10 ufc PPV's (i dont care if he headlines them, im just saying hes not invloved in them for that reason)


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> see this is why its hard to have a debate with you, you missed the whole point... i said hes not in many PPV events, and you put spin on it and said the events his in which ones has he not co-headlined.... so again you missed the whole point
> 
> i said dana doesn't want him in PPV events.... and i just proved it there.. BECAUSE HES A BORING FIGHTER
> 
> ...


No you are wrong, he has already had 3 fights this year and in december it will be 4 thats more than anybody besides Matt Hughes, Tito brings in more money that ANYONE, so dana sure as hell wants him there, but you cannot fight in every event, nobody does that, most guys only fight once or twice a year, Tito has 4 in 2006 YOU ARE WRONG SO DROP IT! anyway I am going home so do some research over the weekend, and I will continue my dominance over you on monday


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> see this is why its hard to have a debate with you, you missed the whole point... i said hes not in many PPV events, and you put spin on it and said the events his in which ones has he not co-headlined.... so again you missed the whole point
> 
> i said dana doesn't want him in PPV events.... and i just proved it there.. BECAUSE HES A BORING FIGHTER
> 
> ...


Name one guy that has fought in all 16! or even 10 of the 16! it doesnt happen MORON, Grow up you hard-headed stubborn child


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> No you are wrong, he has already had 3 fights this year and in december it will be 4 thats more than anybody besides Matt Hughes, Tito brings in more money that ANYONE, so dana sure as hell wants him there, but you cannot fight in every event, nobody does that, most guys only fight once or twice a year, Tito has 4 in 2006 YOU ARE WRONG SO DROP IT! anyway I am going home so do some research over the weekend, and I will continue my dominance over you on monday


lol, you think that Dana putting a fight between Tito and Shamrock is a fight for Tito.. as i have been saying this for a long time shamrock lost off of his skill once he came back from the wwf.. so to sit there and say that ohh he has 3 fights and 2 of them are from shamrock and one TUF hero is a fight you are sadly mistaken


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Name one guy that has fought in all 16! or even 10 of the 16! it doesnt happen MORON, Grow up you hard-headed stubborn child



3 fights in alittle over 2 years isn't that good... lol so im stubborn becuase i provide facts.. and you are right because you says so? does that make much sense


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

*More number coming at you (and to find these dates i have to use the internet)*

in 6 years tito has fought 13 times, and 4 of thoes fights are from ken shamrock


by this morons math, 6 years would have 24 fights (4 fights a year) which an average fighter fights..


so these guys are wrong, because they fail to see that Tito is a below average fighter (if it was decided by how many fights you fight)

so to say that Dana wants tito to fight, is disproven by the lack of fights Tito has..... and as i said time and time again this is a business and Tito doesn't provide the income that Dana would like.


----------



## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Name one guy that has fought in all 16! or even 10 of the 16! it doesnt happen MORON, Grow up you hard-headed stubborn child


i remember being on the buisness end of that sort of post...


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

pt447 said:


> i remember being on the buisness end of that sort of post...
> http://www.mmaforum.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=56637
> Edit/Delete Message



hehe well you know no one will fight in all of the UFC matches. hehe but do you see the point that Tito doesn't fight much.... and besides this year (where he has been more vocal about the amount of his fighting has got him more matches with ken shamrock) he hasn't fought much... and hes getting a chance to fight again against Chuck, and you will all see how well his LnG fighting style will get him


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> in 6 years tito has fought 13 times, and 4 of thoes fights are from ken shamrock
> 
> 
> by this morons math, 6 years would have 24 fights (4 fights a year) which an average fighter fights..
> ...


Actually 3 of those fights are against Ken Shamrock, not 4. 

And there is no "math" going on here, Tito has had 3 fights this year, and in December when he fights Chuck, it will be 4. I never said he averages 4 fights a year. And for you to make such a ridiculous statement that "Tito doesnt provide that income Dana would like" just shows your ignorance. Tito is a money maker, and he always has been. The highest profits for a UFC event came at UFC 61, Tito vs Ken 2. BOTTOM LINE. they had a record attendance and record PPV sales. those are facts. Even 99% of Tito haters will tell you that he brings in the big money. So just give it up, you are fighting an uphill battle that you cannot and will not win.


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

pt447 said:


> i remember being on the buisness end of that sort of post...


yeah, those were good times. And atleast you made sense, and brought a credible arguement. It blows my mind how ridiculous some of this guy's comments are.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Actually 3 of those fights are against Ken Shamrock, not 4.
> 
> And there is no "math" going on here, Tito has had 3 fights this year, and in December when he fights Chuck, it will be 4. I never said he averages 4 fights a year. And for you to make such a ridiculous statement that "Tito doesnt provide that income Dana would like" just shows your ignorance. Tito is a money maker, and he always has been. The highest profits for a UFC event came at UFC 61, Tito vs Ken 2. BOTTOM LINE. they had a record attendance and record PPV sales. those are facts. Even 99% of Tito haters will tell you that he brings in the big money. So just give it up, you are fighting an uphill battle that you cannot and will not win.



Now just wait for my responce.... im typing out some need to know "facts" this may take a few mins


----------



## buckmas (Oct 9, 2006)

dude i ****ing agree, elbows are beautiful, what i mean is that theres nothing better than poundind somebodies head open with elbows, or putting someone in a arm bar and listen to them squeal like a little *****, but foot stomps i think are ****ing gay.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Actually 3 of those fights are against Ken Shamrock, not 4.
> 
> And there is no "math" going on here, Tito has had 3 fights this year, and in December when he fights Chuck, it will be 4. I never said he averages 4 fights a year. And for you to make such a ridiculous statement that "Tito doesnt provide that income Dana would like" just shows your ignorance. Tito is a money maker, and he always has been. The highest profits for a UFC event came at UFC 61, Tito vs Ken 2. BOTTOM LINE. they had a record attendance and record PPV sales. those are facts. Even 99% of Tito haters will tell you that he brings in the big money. So just give it up, you are fighting an uphill battle that you cannot and will not win.


Fact: In over 6 years Tito has only fought 13 fights, and amoung thoes 13 fights 3 of them have been Ken Shamrock......

Fact: In 2/23/2001, he KO'd a guy by a slam but since then he has only TKO'd Ken Shamrock...... then he's TKO'd Elvis Sinosic via a cut.

so in 12 fights he has lost 2 (Couture, Liddell), has beat ken shamrock 3 times...

so that leave 7 fights.... 1 subbmission :O and 6 decisions...... SIX!!! 

ground and pound my ass.... when 47% of your fights end in a decision you dont have what it takes to be concidered a GnP specialist... you are LnG

47% - win LnG
15% - losses
23% - wins against Ken Shamrock
9% - To wins that are not by decision or are ken shamrock


and most fighters fight 3-4 time a year, Tito has only fought 3 times this year (soon to be 4) BUT out of the last 6, he has fought 13 times...... which means someone doesn't want him fighting....... and who has enough power to say they dont want people to fight.... hummmm .. maybe someone that doesn't like Tito, someone who has a grudge and wants to box him.... hummm i dont know who that could be

now, im sorry but numbers dont lie, only stupid people like oyu who post and dont check the facts....

all stats are taking from Fight Finder - Tito "Huntington Beach Bad Boy" Ortiz's Mixed Martial Arts Statistics

i urge people to check it out...


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

buckmas said:


> dude i ****ing agree, elbows are beautiful, what i mean is that theres nothing better than poundind somebodies head open with elbows, or putting someone in a arm bar and listen to them squeal like a little *****, but foot stomps i think are ****ing gay.



i do agree, elbows are nice but if a fighter only does elbows, but isn't good enough to finish the fight, does that make the person who giving the elbows good?



ohh and if you look at his last 5 years he as only 2 TKO against ken shamrock and the rest are either losses or decisions


----------



## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Fact: In over 6 years Tito has only fought 13 fights, and amoung thoes 13 fights 3 of them have been Ken Shamrock......
> 
> Fact: In 2/23/2001, he KO'd a guy by a slam but since then he has only TKO'd Ken Shamrock...... then he's TKO'd Elvis Sinosic via a cut.
> 
> ...


finally, a complete analysis of why tito is way overrated!!! good job, i repped you!:thumbsup:


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Fact: In over 6 years Tito has only fought 13 fights, and amoung thoes 13 fights 3 of them have been Ken Shamrock......
> 
> Fact: In 2/23/2001, he KO'd a guy by a slam but since then he has only TKO'd Ken Shamrock...... then he's TKO'd Elvis Sinosic via a cut.
> 
> ...



Man, you are clueless, watch his fights, he pounds the hell out of people from the guard he doesn’t just lay on them. Even if he doesn’t finish the fights he is still a GnP fight not LnP, all you have to do is ****ing watch the fights. Again, Tito had a contract dispute which is why he was not fighting during that time, Dana signed him back as one of the highest paid fighters, which means he DID want him back. He wanted him so badly he was willing to pay A LOT of money for him. You are the stupid person who does not check facts, you have done that SO MANY times in this thread. Seriously you need to just give up, you should have given up a long time ago.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

pt447 said:


> finally, a complete analysis of why tito is way overrated!!! good job, i repped you!:thumbsup:



It was last in the 5 round for this fight, but i pulled out the stops and used the numbers to back up my statements and showed who was firght in this debate and who was wrong....*the new coming comes up and take out the 2 champs who thought he was wrong*

QUE ROCKIE'S THEME MUSIC!!

hahaha only joking everyone, but as i said a long time ago in these posts.. please do your research.. not just in MMA but in everything in life.. check facts and find facts


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Man, you are clueless, watch his fights, he pounds the hell out of people from the guard he doesn’t just lay on them. Even if he doesn’t finish the fights he is still a GnP fight not LnP, all you have to do is ****ing watch the fights. Again, Tito had a contract dispute which is why he was not fighting during that time, Dana signed him back as one of the highest paid fighters, which means he DID want him back. He wanted him so badly he was willing to pay A LOT of money for him. You are the stupid person who does not check facts, you have done that SO MANY times in this thread. Seriously you need to just give up, you should have given up a long time ago.


lol, *the last punch after the bell, but daman5 gets back up to say*


If he elbows them, and kicks there ass, why can't he finish the fight... in 6 years Tito has only KO'd 1 person (via SLAM!!! HAHAHAHA) to be a GnPounder, you should be able to atleast knock out your fighters.


and dont say anything about ken shamrock.. if you watch his fights.. he was a human punching bag.. and if he was to fight anyother fighter.. there would have been the sme outcome.. Tito didn't kick is ass.. anyone would have


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> It was last in the 5 round for this fight, but i pulled out the stops and used the numbers to back up my statements and showed who was firght in this debate and who was wrong....*the new coming comes up and take out the 2 champs who thought he was wrong*
> 
> QUE ROCKIE'S THEME MUSIC!!
> 
> hahaha only joking everyone, but as i said a long time ago in these posts.. please do your research.. not just in MMA but in everything in life.. check facts and find facts


Hahaha, we have both proved you wrong in several different ways, you have yet to be able to prove us wrong about ANYTHING. You took what PT said and again ran into your fantasy world. You are a joke man. You have said so many things as if they were fact and Cbingham and I have called you out several times and proved you wrong.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Hahaha, we have both proved you wrong in several different ways, you have yet to be able to prove us wrong about ANYTHING. You took what PT said and again ran into your fantasy world. You are a joke man. You have said so many things as if they were fact and Cbingham and I have called you out several times and proved you wrong.



then prove it... please.. you accuse me of being in a fantsy world, yet i use numbers to prove what im saying...

you say im a joke, but if anyone else does the research of what im saying.. would come to the same conclusion....

and the fact that you 2 morons have called me out and jsut said im wrong as apposed to PROVING IT... just makes you look even more wrong then you were when you started this argument


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Fact: In over 6 years Tito has only fought 13 fights, and amoung thoes 13 fights 3 of them have been Ken Shamrock......
> 
> Fact: In 2/23/2001, he KO'd a guy by a slam but since then he has only TKO'd Ken Shamrock...... then he's TKO'd Elvis Sinosic via a cut.
> 
> ...


Actually bro, here are the number, 

Tito has...... 

8 KO's/TKO's thats 53.33%
2 submission thats 13.33%
5 decisions thats 33.33%

Your numbers arent even right you fool, and the funny thing is that I got those numbers from the exact same website you did! hahahaha, can you even read? seriously, can you?

Allow me to prove it,

Win Ken Shamrock TKO (Strikes) UFC-Fight Night 7 10/10/2006 1 2:23 
Win Ken Shamrock TKO (Strikes) UFC 61-Bitter Rivals 7/8/2006 1 1:18 
Win Forrest Griffin Decision (Split) UFC 59-Reality Check 4/15/2006 3 5:00 
Win Vitor Belfort Decision (Split) UFC 51-Super Saturday 2/5/2005 3 5:00 
Win Patrick Cote Decision (Unanimous) UFC 50-The War of '04 10/22/2004 3 5:00 
Loss Chuck Liddell KO (Punches) UFC 47-It's On 4/2/2004 2 0:38 
Loss Randy Couture Decision (Unanimous) UFC 44-Undisputed 9/26/2003 5 5:00 
Win Ken Shamrock TKO (Corner Stoppage) UFC 40-Vendetta 11/22/2002 3 5:00 
Win Vladimir Matyushenko Decision (Unanimous) UFC 33-Victory in Vegas 9/28/2001 5 5:00 
Win Elvis Sinosic TKO (Cut) UFC 32-Showdown in the Meadowlands 6/29/2001 1 3:32 
Win Evan Tanner KO (Slam) UFC 30-Battle on the Boardwalk 2/23/2001 1 0:32 
Win Yuki Kondo Submission (Neck Crank) UFC 29-Defense of the Belts 12/16/2000 1 1:52 
Win Wanderlei Silva Decision (Unanimous) UFC 25-Ultimate Japan 3 4/14/2000 5 5:00 
Loss Frank Shamrock Submission (Strikes) UFC 22-There Can Be Only One Champion 9/24/1999 4 4:42 
Win Guy Mezger TKO (Strikes) UFC 19-Ultimate Young Guns 3/5/1999 1 9:56 
Win Jerry Bohlander TKO (Strikes) UFC 18-Road to the Heavyweight Title 1/8/1999 1 14:31 
Win Jeremy Screeton Submission (Strikes) WCNHBC-West Coast NHB Championships 1 12/8/1998 1 0:16 
Loss Guy Mezger Submission (Guillotine Choke) UFC 13-The Ultimate Force 5/30/1997 1 3:00 
Win Wes Albritton TKO (Strikes) UFC 13-The Ultimate Force 

That above is Tito Ortiz's record complete with how he won or lost and the date and event, read it and weap jackass.

I find it funny that when you talk about Tito's KO by slam, you refer to Evan tanner as "some guy" Evan tanner just happens to be the former UFC middleweight champion, and a great fighter. You dont even know simple day one shit man. Also, one reason for Tito not fighting so much in the past two years is Tito was in a contractual dispute with the UFC, then his contract ran out, then he re-signed and started fighting frequently again. And even if he isnt fighting 4 times a year EVERY year, what does that matter? He wins! he is 15-4-0 And all 4 of his lossed came from TOP NOTCH competition, Randy Couture, Chuck Liddell, Frank Shamrock, and Guy Metzger (at the time he was top competition) then he came back and beat the crap out of guy metzger. So whats your point?


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> lol, *the last punch after the bell, but daman5 gets back up to say*
> 
> 
> If he elbows them, and kicks there ass, why can't he finish the fight... in 6 years Tito has only KO'd 1 person (via SLAM!!! HAHAHAHA) to be a GnPounder, you should be able to atleast knock out your fighters.
> ...



What really matters….the W. He may not finish all of his fights but he stays busy gets take downs and GnP fighters to get the win. 16-4 record and you talk like he has a losing record.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

pt447 said:


> finally, a complete analysis of why tito is way overrated!!! good job, i repped you!:thumbsup:



its funny, because these guys STILL refuse to even remotly say that my stats are right... haha


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

pt447 said:


> finally, a complete analysis of why tito is way overrated!!! good job, i repped you!:thumbsup:


That analysis was wrong, his numbers were 100% wrong.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> What really matters….the W. He may not finish all of his fights but he stays busy gets take downs and GnP fighters to get the win. 16-4 record and you talk like he has a losing record.



nope, a wins a win.. this isn't about if he wins or not.. this is about the cheapest move in UFC.... (if you look at the thread). And all im saying is that instead of it being a move, I'm not beating around the bush.. and im just syaing Tito is the cheapest... hes a effective LnG fighter.... but it doesn't make for good tv


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> its funny, because these guys STILL refuse to even remotly say that my stats are right... haha


again, your stats are dead wrong. You are too f*cking stupid to read the stats that you claim work to your advantage, you moron. You listed stats that were wrong, wrong percentages, wrong numbers, wrong everything.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> then prove it... please.. you accuse me of being in a fantsy world, yet i use numbers to prove what im saying...
> 
> you say im a joke, but if anyone else does the research of what im saying.. would come to the same conclusion....
> 
> and the fact that you 2 morons have called me out and jsut said im wrong as apposed to PROVING IT... just makes you look even more wrong then you were when you started this argument


Haha, You keep saying things about how Tito doesn’t make any money and Dana didn’t want him. You have no facts to back that up because it is 100% wrong. We have both tried to correct you on that. That is just one thing out of many. I’m not going to take the time to re explain everything to you that you’ve been wrong about that I have had to correct you on.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> again, your stats are dead wrong. You are too f*cking stupid to read the stats that you claim work to your advantage, you moron. You listed stats that were wrong, wrong percentages, wrong numbers, wrong everything.


work them out... 13 fights.... 2 losses 2/13 15.38% ...wait... wtf am i doing.. this moron doesn't even know what hes talking about.. he doesn't even know how to do proper math..


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Haha, You keep saying things about how Tito doesn’t make any money and Dana didn’t want him. You have no facts to back that up because it is 100% wrong. We have both tried to correct you on that. That is just one thing out of many. I’m not going to take the time to re explain everything to you that you’ve been wrong about that I have had to correct you on.



ok, if he brought so much money into the sport, after his win against Wanderlei (his LnP speciality) he only defended his "title" 2 times in a year.. ohh look at that income for UFC... and then in a year and a half... he defended his title for another whoping 3 times.. look that the revune then he lost 2 times back to back .. to Randy and Chuck (which mind you was a year apart).. and since then he has 5 wins 3 decision (2 of thoes mind you were split decisions) and the other 2 wins were to ken shamrock......

so in 6 years... if he was a big money maker he would have fought WAY more then 13 times.. and i do remember in a press confrence, Tito did say he wanted to fight more, and then dana set him up against Ken shamrock
hahahaha and you call that a challenge for him.. lol guys comon.. you know you are wrong and now you are grabbing at straws


----------



## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> That analysis was wrong, his numbers were 100% wrong.


well, provide the correct numbers, otherwise there's no basis for contradicting his numbers!


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> That analysis was wrong, his numbers were 100% wrong.


numbers dont lie....


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> work them out... 13 fights.... 2 losses 2/13 15.38% ...wait... wtf am i doing.. this moron doesn't even know what hes talking about.. he doesn't even know how to do proper math..



Work this out dumbshit,

8 KO's/TKO's thats 53.33%
2 submission thats 13.33%
5 decisions thats 33.33%

Those are the facts, I could care less about how you perceive it, those are the ACTUALL numbers, and they came from the same web-page that you quoted jackass.

Take a good hard look at the number of KO's and TKO's and the percentage 53.33% thats more than half right? then you have two other categories, submissions and decisions. Now, you said he has 47% "LnG" wins, WRONG! NOT POSSIBLE AT ALL. So work it out, and learn to read you fool.


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> numbers dont lie....


No they dont lie, but your numbers are not right, so you are lying.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> ok, if he brought so much money into the sport, after his win against Wanderlei (his LnP speciality) he only defended his "title" 2 times in a year.. ohh look at that income for UFC... and then in a year and a half... he defended his title for another whoping 3 times.. look that the revune then he lost 2 times back to back .. to Randy and Chuck (which mind you was a year apart).. and since then he has 5 wins 3 decision (2 of thoes mind you were split decisions) and the other 2 wins were to ken shamrock......
> 
> so in 6 years... if he was a big money maker he would have fought WAY more then 13 times.. and i do remember in a press confrence, Tito did say he wanted to fight more, and then dana set him up against Ken shamrock
> hahahaha and you call that a challenge for him.. lol guys comon.. you know you are wrong and now you are grabbing at straws


You are looking at two completely different times in MMA, back then there were on UFC events every 3 months or so and now there is one every month. Do a little more research man, Also back then Tito was the face of the UFC and there is no doubt he was there #1 money maker during that time. Any long time MMA fan knows there is no doubt about that. Again, you are wrong if you think Tito Ortiz is not a huge money maker for the UFC, he is probably the reason they didn’t go completely out of business back then because every one wanted to pay to see him fight at that time. Dana set him up against Ken because that is a fight people wanted to see, like Cbingham already pointed out, Tito vs Ken 2 was the highest selling PPV. You are the one who is STILL wrong, no matter how much you TRY to argue that Tito doesn’t bring in money you are still wrong.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Work this out dumbshit,
> 
> 8 KO's/TKO's thats 53.33%
> 2 submission thats 13.33%
> ...



wow now you make me look wrong by using his whole stats... in a course of 9 years......

so yes thoes number are right if you use his 20 fights.. but wait .. let me look at this one stat.
8 KO's/TKO's thats 53.33% - cuz this is where the problem lays

7 TKO's and 1 KO..... you'd think that if you were a GnP specialist you would be able to knock a guy out..... but instead they are TKO's .. where Tito just isn't good enough to KO a person... and thats what we are debating about..

if Tito is considered a GnP specialist or a LnG specialist.. because by being a GnPer, you should be able to KO atleast 1 person without slamming them.. but i dont know.. im not an expert..


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> You are looking at two completely different times in MMA, back then there were on UFC events every 3 months or so and now there is one every month. Do a little more research man, Also back then Tito was the face of the UFC and there is no doubt he was there #1 money maker during that time. Any long time MMA fan knows there is no doubt about that. Again, you are wrong if you think Tito Ortiz is not a huge money maker for the UFC, he is probably the reason they didn’t go completely out of business back then because every one wanted to pay to see him fight at that time. Dana set him up against Ken because that is a fight people wanted to see, like Cbingham already pointed out, Tito vs Ken 2 was the highest selling PPV. You are the one who is STILL wrong, no matter how much you TRY to argue that Tito doesn’t bring in money you are still wrong.



great.. im glad you brought this up, people wanted to see this fight because they knew how it was going to end.. although a lot of people still wanted to see shamrock win .. because he WAS the ufc.. saying that UFC is alive because of Tito is a joke in itself... with out Ken Shamrock and his brother.. MMA wouldn't even made a name for itself.. hahah get my facts straigt.. hahah think again nub


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> wow now you make me look wrong by using his whole stats... in a course of 9 years......
> 
> so yes thoes number are right if you use his 20 fights.. but wait .. let me look at this one stat.
> 8 KO's/TKO's thats 53.33% - cuz this is where the problem lays
> ...


hahahahahahahahahahahha, You are trying to make me look wrong by cutting out the stats that dont side with your arguement, YOU HAVE TO USE ALL THE STATS, remember, the number DONT LIE, but you do, You simply edited the parts you didnt like, then presented them as "fact" You are a joke man, an absolute joke and you proved it with this post. hahahaha you cant just cut out 3 years of his career to make you fake stats look better! hahahahaha your a cheater and a cowardly punk.


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> great.. im glad you brought this up, people wanted to see this fight because they knew how it was going to end.. although a lot of people still wanted to see shamrock win .. because he WAS the ufc.. saying that UFC is alive because of Tito is a joke in itself... with out Ken Shamrock and his brother.. MMA wouldn't even made a name for itself.. hahah get my facts straigt.. hahah think again nub



wrong!!!!

Ken Shamrock was away in pro wrestling during that period, and Frank Shamrock was fighting elsewhere. so again you are WRONG!


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> hahahahahahahahahahahha, You are trying to make me look wrong by cutting out the stats that dont side with your arguement, YOU HAVE TO USE ALL THE STATS, remember, the number DONT LIE, but you do, You simply edited the parts you didnt like, then presented them as "fact" You are a joke man, an absolute joke and you proved it with this post. hahahaha you cant just cut out 3 years of his career to make you fake stats look better! hahahahaha your a cheater and a cowardly punk.


ok i added the 3 years in .. it still doesn't make a difference about his KO's.. it just makes his TKO record a little better .. but adding in 3 more TKOs by stirke is what im trying to say.. he lays on top on half gaurd .. and does "hammer fist elbow" over and over.. and then tries to stake them on the fence and tries and elbows them.. but thats what he did in the first 3 years.. he doens't fight like that any more.. he does even more laying .. and not enough pounding.. and thats what its all about ... his first 3 years he did GnP .. and the last 6 years.. he did nothing.. so again to say his a specialist .. is a HUGE OVER STATEMENT


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> wrong!!!!
> 
> Ken Shamrock was away in pro wrestling during that period, and Frank Shamrock was fighting elsewhere. so again you are WRONG!



ahahah ahahah ahahah ahahah ahahahahaha ... UFC was falling apart way before Tito started anything... if anything the time when Tito because champ.. UFC took its worst lost by losing wanderlei silva to pride.... look how big pride comparded to UFC is (UFC might be bigger grosing because of their marketing techniques.. but skill toward pride just doesn't equal the same) .. so to say Tito saved UFC is a joke.. if anything Tito built pride because of his gay fighting style... so to say UFC was saved by Tito hahahaha ... hahahaha... hahaha .. if you condiered less skill, not as much action and not as much explosiveness and not good enought technically sound fighters saving.. then yes .. he saved it completly


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> ok i added the 3 years in .. it still doesn't make a difference about his KO's.. it just makes his TKO record a little better .. but adding in 3 more TKOs by stirke is what im trying to say.. he lays on top on half gaurd .. and does "hammer fist elbow" over and over.. and then tries to stake them on the fence and tries and elbows them.. but thats what he did in the first 3 years.. he doens't fight like that any more.. he does even more laying .. and not enough pounding.. and thats what its all about ... his first 3 years he did GnP .. and the last 6 years.. he did nothing.. so again to say his a specialist .. is a HUGE OVER STATEMENT


Dude you have reached a new level of lunacy. 

TKO- TECHNICAL KNOCK OUT, meaning the referee had to stop the fight because one of the fighters was getting beaten so badly that their safety was in jeopardy, or because of a bad cut. The only difference between a TKO and a KO is in a KO you are asleep, either way you got the shit beat out of you. I dont see any relavance to your arguement.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> great.. im glad you brought this up, people wanted to see this fight because they knew how it was going to end.. although a lot of people still wanted to see shamrock win .. because he WAS the ufc.. saying that UFC is alive because of Tito is a joke in itself... with out Ken Shamrock and his brother.. MMA wouldn't even made a name for itself.. hahah get my facts straigt.. hahah think again nub



After a post like this how are you going to call me a “nub”, you know so little it is unbelievable that you are still going. Yes Ken Shamrock, Gracie and those guys started MMA, that is not even what we are talking about you dumbass. We are talking about the time that Tito was champ, and it is true that during that time Tito was the face of the UFC and everyone wanted to pay to see him fight. Ken wasn’t even fighting then, Tito was beating up the guys that Ken trained. During that tough time Tito did was a huge factor in keeping the sport alive, so yes you do need to get your facts straight and it is you who seems so obviously new to MMA not me. Again you are completely delusional and clueless.


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> ahahah ahahah ahahah ahahah ahahahahaha ... UFC was falling apart way before Tito started anything... if anything the time when Tito because champ.. UFC took its worst lost by losing wanderlei silva to pride.... look how big pride comparded to UFC is (UFC might be bigger grosing because of their marketing techniques.. but skill toward pride just doesn't equal the same) .. so to say Tito saved UFC is a joke.. if anything Tito built pride because of his gay fighting style... so to say UFC was saved by Tito hahahaha ... hahahaha... hahaha .. if you condiered less skill, not as much action and not as much explosiveness and not good enought technically sound fighters saving.. then yes .. he saved it completly


Holy shit kid, Vanderlei Silva went to pride because he was getting his ass-whooped in the UFC, he was 1-2 in the UFC, he lost to Vitor Belfort, and Tito Ortiz, and he beat some chump. YOU ARE WRONG MAN


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Dude you have reached a new level of lunacy.
> 
> TKO- TECHNICAL KNOCK OUT, meaning the referee had to stop the fight because one of the fighters was getting beaten so badly that their safety was in jeopardy, or because of a bad cut. The only difference between a TKO and a KO is in a KO you are asleep, either way you got the shit beat out of you. I dont see any relavance to your arguement.


that is my whole relevencey .. you call him a GnP ... POUND!! having all your weight suspended above the other fighter and dropping elbows down SHOULD KNOCK OUT you opponent, but instead Tito has to have it stopped because he can't finish the fight.. and so if he cant finish it via KNOCK OUT, then he doesn't pound peroperly... hence not a ground and pounder


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Holy shit kid, Vanderlei Silva went to pride because he was getting his ass-whooped in the UFC, he was 1-2 in the UFC, he lost to Vitor Belfort, and Tito Ortiz, and he beat some chump. YOU ARE WRONG MAN


lol, and now hes one of the greatest fighters alive .. hummmm just because someone doesn't mean hes not good


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> ahahah ahahah ahahah ahahah ahahahahaha ... UFC was falling apart way before Tito started anything... if anything the time when Tito because champ.. UFC took its worst lost by losing wanderlei silva to pride.... look how big pride comparded to UFC is (UFC might be bigger grosing because of their marketing techniques.. but skill toward pride just doesn't equal the same) .. so to say Tito saved UFC is a joke.. if anything Tito built pride because of his gay fighting style... so to say UFC was saved by Tito hahahaha ... hahahaha... hahaha .. if you condiered less skill, not as much action and not as much explosiveness and not good enought technically sound fighters saving.. then yes .. he saved it completly



Once again you prove that you didn’t actually watch MMA back then. If you did actually see the entire card and not just watch fight clips on you tube you would know, EVERYONE WATNED TO SEE TITO FIGHT. That was a very tough time for MMA and the UFC and every one they interview before the card, all they talked about was Tito, so yes he played a HUGE roll in keeping the UFC alive at that time.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

*Update*

These 2 fourm champs have now, what seems to be.. have come to a mutal agreement in saying that Tito Ortiz has single handedly saved the UFC from being out a business


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> that is my whole relevencey .. you call him a GnP ... POUND!! having all your weight suspended above the other fighter and dropping elbows down SHOULD KNOCK OUT you opponent, but instead Tito has to have it stopped because he can't finish the fight.. and so if he cant finish it via KNOCK OUT, then he doesn't pound peroperly... hence not a ground and pounder


A TKO is a finish you F*CKING MORON! THEY STOP THE FIGHT! THATS CALLED FINISHING! jesus christ, you are the dumbest kid I have ever come across in my entire life, You hate Tito so much that you refuse to acknowledge even the simple facts. You act like things are just that simple, you think if you hit someone in the face, it should knock them out, that is not alsways the case, infact it almost never is, You tell me one GnP fighter that KO's every guy that he hits. IT DOESNT HAPPEN JACKASS!, Matt Hughes is considered one of the best Ground and Pounder out there, and he almost NEVER KO's people. YOU ARE ****ING STUPID KID!


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> These 2 fourm champs have now, what seems to be.. have come to a mutal agreement in saying that Tito Ortiz has single handedly saved the UFC from being out a business



You are making shit up again, no one said he single handedly did it but he was with out a doubt the biggest factor. Even Jens Pulver said that him and Tito were the only ones doing promotional stuff back then and Tito was with out a doubt the face of the organization and the most famous person in MMA in America. Again you have no idea what you are talking about so why do you keep bringing it up?


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> A TKO is a finish you F*CKING MORON! THEY STOP THE FIGHT! THATS CALLED FINISHING! jesus christ, you are the dumbest kid I have ever come across in my entire life, You hate Tito so much that you refuse to acknowledge even the simple facts. You act like things are just that simple, you think if you hit someone in the face, it should knock them out, that is not alsways the case, infact it almost never is, You tell me one GnP fighter that KO's every guy that he hits. IT DOESNT HAPPEN JACKASS!, Matt Hughes is considered one of the best Ground and Pounder out there, and he almost NEVER KO's people. YOU ARE ****ING STUPID KID!


lol and thats the problem with UFC .. is that fans like you fail to see that laying on your fighter, and "looking" busy so the ref doesn't stand you up is not good fight techniques.... its usuing the scared card to your advantage.. because you the judges want to socre "position" then they should score "submition attemps" because if you have good position and you can't finish the fight.. then your position isn't that good..... yes given in 3 years, Tito may have had something good for him... with his record being 5 and 2 .. with things looking good for him with 3 TKO's and 1 submittion, and only 2 losses.. but i think the recent 6 years just doesn't prove that you are right


----------



## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

daman5 said:


> that is my whole relevencey .. you call him a GnP ... POUND!! having all your weight suspended above the other fighter and dropping elbows down SHOULD KNOCK OUT you opponent, but instead Tito has to have it stopped because he can't finish the fight.. and so if he cant finish it via KNOCK OUT, then he doesn't pound peroperly... hence not a ground and pounder


welll, not really... GnP is all about inflicitng damage, not neccisarily KO'g someone. it's about pounding them till the judges decide they took too much of a beating to ignore. GnP is about making it look like you did more damage than you did.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> After a post like this how are you going to call me a “nub”, you know so little it is unbelievable that you are still going. Yes Ken Shamrock, Gracie and those guys started MMA, that is not even what we are talking about you dumbass. We are talking about the time that Tito was champ, and it is true that during that time Tito was the face of the UFC and everyone wanted to pay to see him fight. Ken wasn’t even fighting then, Tito was beating up the guys that Ken trained. During that tough time Tito did was a huge factor in keeping the sport alive, so yes you do need to get your facts straight and it is you who seems so obviously new to MMA not me. Again you are completely delusional and clueless.


if he was such a great champ, and such a money maker for the ufc and did so much for the industry.. why would you only have him fight 6 times in 3 years.......... all the stuff you say MAKES sensem, but when you think about reality, it does fit... to have such a "great" fighter and only fight him 2 times a year.. doesn't make sense .. and there for neither do you


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> You are making shit up again, no one said he single handedly did it but he was with out a doubt the biggest factor. Even Jens Pulver said that him and Tito were the only ones doing promotional stuff back then and Tito was with out a doubt the face of the organization and the most famous person in MMA in America. Again you have no idea what you are talking about so why do you keep bringing it up?



yes PROMOTIONAL stuff, not fighting and making a great name for himself.. just try and build a fan base.... PROMOTIONAL .. not FIGHTING


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> yes PROMOTIONAL stuff, not fighting and making a great name for himself.. just try and build a fan base.... PROMOTIONAL .. not FIGHTING


He was training, fighting and doing promotional stuff, not only to make a name for him self but for the UFC and to make MMA mainstream. The UFC had him doing promotional stuff because he was there # 1 FIGHTER.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> He was training, fighting and doing promotional stuff, not only to make a name for him self but for the UFC and to make MMA mainstream. The UFC had him doing promotional stuff because he was there # 1 FIGHTER.



... that doesn't make business snece, you build up fights and fight them.. not build up your fighter and not have any fights..... so as a champ, can you explain why he only fought 6 times, i mean he is your chamo, youd think that atleast as a champ you'd want him to live up to the expectation of a champ, not just a person who does promotions ... and you think he saved that... ot Xyiance saved the UFC? because do you know how much that company has dropped into the league... so again.... Tito doesn't know whats going on, and neither do you


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> if he was such a great champ, and such a money maker for the ufc and did so much for the industry.. why would you only have him fight 6 times in 3 years.......... all the stuff you say MAKES sensem, but when you think about reality, it does fit... to have such a "great" fighter and only fight him 2 times a year.. doesn't make sense .. and there for neither do you


I already explained this to you, when he first became champ they only had UFC events every 3 months or so.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> ... that doesn't make business snece, you build up fights and fight them.. not build up your fighter and not have any fights..... so as a champ, can you explain why he only fought 6 times, i mean he is your chamo, youd think that atleast as a champ you'd want him to live up to the expectation of a champ, not just a person who does promotions ... and you think he saved that... ot Xyiance saved the UFC? because do you know how much that company has dropped into the league... so again.... Tito doesn't know whats going on, and neither do you



Like I just said, they didn’t have UFC events as frequently back then, do some research and you will see that they were fighting him. You are the one who has NO IDEA what is going on man. How are you going to say that Tito doesn’t know what is going on? Yet another completely idiotic statement coming from you.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> I already explained this to you, when he first became champ they only had UFC events every 3 months or so.



ugh, again i bring up my point from ufc 30 -45.. there was 15 matches, and in thoes 15 matches your "champ" only fought 6 times, SIX!!! if the ufc was dying then... you would want to put your big fighters out there to grab a fan base again... but insteand they tried promotional stuff.. and ended up with xyiance.. not Tito and not is LnP


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Like I just said, they didn’t have UFC events as frequently back then, do some research and you will see that they were fighting him. You are the one who has NO IDEA what is going on man. How are you going to say that Tito doesn’t know what is going on? Yet another completely idiotic statement coming from you.


lol.. i just said that to grab your attention, because you have seem to lost your marbles.......


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> ugh, again i bring up my point from ufc 30 -45.. there was 15 matches, and in thoes 15 matches your "champ" only fought 6 times, SIX!!! if the ufc was dying then... you would want to put your big fighters out there to grab a fan base again... but insteand they tried promotional stuff.. and ended up with xyiance.. not Tito and not is LnP



He was there biggest fighter not there only fighter. Did you expect him to have fought in every single fight? The sport was very small back then so doing promotional stuff was very important. What is so hard to understand about that? Why do you even keep bringing that up? It’s not really helping you.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> lol.. i just said that to grab your attention, because you have seem to lost your marbles.......



At this point, do you even know what you are talking about? Really, you have not made sense yet. I’m about to leave work so if you have anything else to say it will be tomorrow before you can show you where you’re wrong again.


----------



## AtomDanger (Oct 7, 2006)

Well whatever they did, it worked.
UFC is huge and growing so why argue about it?


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> At this point, do you even know what you are talking about? Really, you have not made sense yet. I’m about to leave work so if you have anything else to say it will be tomorrow before you can show you where you’re wrong again.



lol, i have provided stats for the last 6 years for tito ortiz, i have explaind what he does in the ring, and how he fights.... i have told you time and time again that tito isn't that great of a fighter.. but you think you are right.. 

but how about this.... when Chuck creams Tito again, because tito is gay and will try and lay on him.. but the way chuck fights is that he gets to the fence and stands up.. and chuck will knock him out... again... just like before.. and then you will see how accurate my "lies" are .. and if i am lying.. then Tito should win by a TKO or a submittion .. not a decision, because thats what im trying to tell you.. Tito can't really finish the fight.. hes not that good.. he has to take it to the score card .. in whihc he usually wins because he was laying on top of the fighter


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

AtomDanger said:


> Well whatever they did, it worked.
> UFC is huge and growing so why argue about it?



yes but this dude thinks its because of Tito, and not Xyaince.. but yes they did what they had to do.. which was sell out to another compnay to make money to get more fighters... no quams with that.. business is business


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> yes but this dude thinks its because of Tito, and not Xyaince.. but yes they did what they had to do.. which was sell out to another compnay to make money to get more fighters... no quams with that.. business is business


Xyience was not even around back then dumbass! Tito was the face of the organization and there # 1 money maker, that is 100% true.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> lol, i have provided stats for the last 6 years for tito ortiz, i have explaind what he does in the ring, and how he fights.... i have told you time and time again that tito isn't that great of a fighter.. but you think you are right..
> 
> but how about this.... when Chuck creams Tito again, because tito is gay and will try and lay on him.. but the way chuck fights is that he gets to the fence and stands up.. and chuck will knock him out... again... just like before.. and then you will see how accurate my "lies" are .. and if i am lying.. then Tito should win by a TKO or a submittion .. not a decision, because thats what im trying to tell you.. Tito can't really finish the fight.. hes not that good.. he has to take it to the score card .. in whihc he usually wins because he was laying on top of the fighter



Once again you prove you are new to the sport, very immature and know NOTHING. You have given basically opinion and lies! I am actually taking a vacation day tomorrow so it will be Wednesday before I can prove you wrong again.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Once again you prove you are new to the sport, very immature and know NOTHING. You have given basically opinion and lies! I am actually taking a vacation day tomorrow so it will be Wednesday before I can prove you wrong again.


ugh.. again you point your fingers at me... but all you keep rambling on about is how hes good .. and how hes the greatest.. it hard to disprove if you dont punch holes in my rebuttles


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Xyience was not even around back then dumbass! Tito was the face of the organization and there # 1 money maker, that is 100% true.



you cant prove this.. and im doing my research right now.. to disprove you.. you have no idea when xyiance and UFC join together..


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Xyience was not even around back then dumbass! Tito was the face of the organization and there # 1 money maker, that is 100% true.


and this statement doesn't make sense..... Compnay can invest more capital then 1 event can bring in .. so if you market your fighters to viewers (threw xyience) then that will generate more revenue.. and increase the # of fighters that want to fight


----------



## CTFlyingKnee (Jul 5, 2006)

again using the internet to think you know things, shut up you immature prick. This will be the last time I make a comment in your general direction as you are only looking for attention, hopefully my fellow posters will do the same


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

CTFlyingKnee said:


> again using the internet to think you know things, shut up you immature prick. This will be the last time I make a comment in your general direction as you are only looking for attention, hopefully my fellow posters will do the same


lol.. so i use business, i use #'s and i use dates.. and you guy fail to believe that Tito Ortiz is a bad fighter..... so you call me a prick, and start being rude all you want. it just shows that you brain only resorts to name calling and childish words..

and yes, i dont know dates and i dont know all of Tito's record... so yes i had to use the internet .... think about why.. because i have facts and i have dates.. and you say to me that i dont know what im talking about.... not so smart are ya?


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Just because you fail to see the recent truth of Tito Ortiz carreer, doesn't make you right... He wins matches usually by decision...

since ufc 33, Tito has been in 9 fights.... and in thoes 9 fights, he is 7 and 2 (not bad)

3 wins over ken shamrock
4 decisions - 2 split!!
and 2 losses 

ahahahahahahah and you all call him a GnP specialist.......... ya.. get a clue


----------



## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Just because you fail to see the recent truth of Tito Ortiz carreer, doesn't make you right... He wins matches usually by decision...
> 
> since ufc 33, Tito has been in 9 fights.... and in thoes 9 fights, he is 7 and 2 (not bad)
> 
> ...


the thing is, most GnP guys get the decision victories because they never really "beat" they're opponent, only administer so much punishement and control that they end up getting the decision. so, you are right that he hasn't actually won in a very decicive way most of the time, but to say he isn't a GnP guy because of that, shows a lack of what GnP'ers usually accomplish.

even coleman, the father of GnP has stated that all he tries to do is keep the guy on the ground, control him, make him look beat up, and win the decision!!!


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

pt447 said:


> the thing is, most GnP guys get the decision victories because they never really "beat" they're opponent, only administer so much punishement and control that they end up getting the decision. so, you are right that he hasn't actually won in a very decicive way most of the time, but to say he isn't a GnP guy because of that, shows a lack of what GnP'ers usually accomplish.
> 
> even coleman, the father of GnP has stated that all he tries to do is keep the guy on the ground, control him, make him look beat up, and win the decision!!!


Finally, someone with some for of knowledge.... now as you were saying that i just happend to be on Colemens record. He's 15 and 8 .. and in his last 6 years hes fought 13 fights as well hes only had 2 decisions.... so to say hes a GnP is true.. because it doesn't go that far usually

but to say in Tito's last 6 years with 13 fights, he has 6 decisions... see what im saying?


----------



## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Finally, someone with some for of knowledge.... now as you were saying that i just happend to be on Colemens record. He's 15 and 8 .. and in his last 6 years hes fought 13 fights as well hes only had 2 decisions.... so to say hes a GnP is true.. because it doesn't go that far usually
> 
> but to say in Tito's last 6 years with 13 fights, he has 6 decisions... see what im saying?


yeah, but you have to take into account that coleman is a whole mess stronger than Tito, as well as a better wrestler. so you can assume that he exherted more control and did more damage than tito, where as tito might have to get up, go chase his opponent and force him to the ground more! therefore spending more time trying to get control, as where colemen maintained control!


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

pt447 said:


> yeah, but you have to take into account that coleman is a whole mess stronger than Tito, as well as a better wrestler. so you can assume that he exherted more control and did more damage than tito, where as tito might have to get up, go chase his opponent and force him to the ground more! therefore spending more time trying to get control, as where colemen maintained control!


exactaly, colemen is a ground and pounder, where he TAKES control and tries to gain a better position. And Tito doesn't, he usually has side guard, and dues the hammer fist, and small elbow combinations, and then losses side control and gets in the guys guard, and then slowly slide him to the fence. And if the fighter stands up, then Tito does it all over again. Not really hitting anything, not really hurting or inflicting that much pain, but meerly holding his opponent to the ground and looking busy until the time runs out... WOOOO WEEEEEEEEE thats a great match for a PPV main event. Great way to make money, great way to sell tickets.


----------



## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

daman5 said:


> exactaly, colemen is a ground and pounder, where he TAKES control and tries to gain a better position. And Tito doesn't, he usually has side guard, and dues the hammer fist, and small elbow combinations, and then losses side control and gets in the guys guard, and then slowly slide him to the fence. And if the fighter stands up, then Tito does it all over again. Not really hitting anything, not really hurting or inflicting that much pain, but meerly holding his opponent to the ground and looking busy until the time runs out... WOOOO WEEEEEEEEE thats a great match for a PPV main event. Great way to make money, great way to sell tickets.


Tito IS a GnP'er, just not a very good one!


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

pt447 said:


> Tito IS a GnP'er, just not a very good one!



Naw, hes a Lay and Gayer, tries to waste time and hold side mount and not let the ref stand it up


----------



## Sibbick (Oct 26, 2006)

Chuck Liddels Thumb to the eye punch


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> and this statement doesn't make sense..... Compnay can invest more capital then 1 event can bring in .. so if you market your fighters to viewers (threw xyience) then that will generate more revenue.. and increase the # of fighters that want to fight


How did that research go? I’m sure it didn’t go very well at all. The time that we were talking about xience was not even around, do all the research you want because that will just prove me right. Xience just recently came about, probably about the time you got into MMA so I can understand why you are thinking that but you are wrong. Back during that time not very many companies were putting there time into the UFC but Tito was there most famous fighter so they used him for all of there promotional stuff. Xyience didn’t come about until around the time tuff started, which is probably the same time you started watching MMA.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> exactaly, colemen is a ground and pounder, where he TAKES control and tries to gain a better position. And Tito doesn't, he usually has side guard, and dues the hammer fist, and small elbow combinations, and then losses side control and gets in the guys guard, and then slowly slide him to the fence. And if the fighter stands up, then Tito does it all over again. Not really hitting anything, not really hurting or inflicting that much pain, but meerly holding his opponent to the ground and looking busy until the time runs out... WOOOO WEEEEEEEEE thats a great match for a PPV main event. Great way to make money, great way to sell tickets.



Have you ever even watched an entire Tito fight? He usually stays in guard because he is one of the only guys in all of MMA that can effectively pound his opponent from the guard. He does go to side control every now and then but there is really not much use for it because he can get the job done from the guard. And he rarely uses the hammer fist, he mostly uses elbows. You have to know that you really don’t know what you are talking about, so why do you even take the time to make post like this?


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Have you ever even watched an entire Tito fight? He usually stays in guard because he is one of the only guys in all of MMA that can effectively pound his opponent from the guard. He does go to side control every now and then but there is really not much use for it because he can get the job done from the guard. And he rarely uses the hammer fist, he mostly uses elbows. You have to know that you really don’t know what you are talking about, so why do you even take the time to make post like this?


ugh, im not even reading your full post. laying on someones chest and hitting them with a hammer fist/elbow just to look busy...... period thats it... no if and or buts, Tito doesn't finish the fight, he has the ability but he doesn't cuz he's afaird of something ...... you can see that he holds back... which makes him a LnG not a GnP.

and to say that i started watching UFC when xyience started .. is a joke.. i dont even like UFC that much compared to other leagues.. they have WAY over rated fighters, most of the fighters are wrestlers, which doesn't make MMA, and most of the fighters gas at the 4-5th rounds.. how is that exciting..(and yes i know titles shots dont go 5 rounds.. only 3)

and im just picking on Tito, because he's the gayest overrated fighter in the UFC... no need to do research on that, you can see it everytime he fights

ohh and did i mention how crappy the fight cards usually are in the UFC?


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

ohh, this dude has watched ufc for 6 years, 3 PPV a year gives him a whoping 18 ppv events.... and plus the TUF shit.. which isn't even real MMA.. they just call it that


i on the other hand, have seen a lot of UFC matches (most likely 4 years worth) but then i also watch Pride, TKO, UCC, IFL and MECCA other explosive sports like that .. ufc doesn't even compare to anyone of thoes leagues for skill... so to say hes the top fighter in the world is just ignorant

so 4 ppv events times 3 a year is 12 events, + pride which has 4 events a year... and i have seen them for the last 2 years so theres 8 more... i have see TKO for the last 2 years which has 3 fights a year so tehres another 6 and i have only seen IFL and MECCA for alittle bit now, but i have prolly see another 4 more of thoes events, and UCC i just watched an event last night.. but i have prolly see a good 5 of them.. 

12+8+6+4+5= 35 event in the last 3 years (not to say i started wathing it then, just syaing in the last 3 years)

moron you are....


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> ugh, im not even reading your full post. laying on someones chest and hitting them with a hammer fist/elbow just to look busy...... period thats it... no if and or buts, Tito doesn't finish the fight, he has the ability but he doesn't cuz he's afaird of something ...... you can see that he holds back... which makes him a LnG not a GnP.
> 
> and to say that i started watching UFC when xyience started .. is a joke.. i dont even like UFC that much compared to other leagues.. they have WAY over rated fighters, most of the fighters are wrestlers, which doesn't make MMA, and most of the fighters gas at the 4-5th rounds.. how is that exciting..(and yes i know titles shots dont go 5 rounds.. only 3)
> 
> ...


Obviously you have never even seen him fight, so you are forced to do research. There have been so many things you have said that make it so clear you have no idea what you are talking about so you will just make stuff up. That is why it has been so easy for me and Cbingham to pick you apart. You have got to be the least educated person (as far as MMA goes) I have ever debated with, EVER. I am done with you because it is impossible to educate you. If you quote me I will probably respond but seriously, you need to just give up now.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> ohh, this dude has watched ufc for 6 years, 3 PPV a year gives him a whoping 18 ppv events.... and plus the TUF shit.. which isn't even real MMA.. they just call it that
> 
> 
> i on the other hand, have seen a lot of UFC matches (most likely 4 years worth) but then i also watch Pride, TKO, UCC, IFL and MECCA other explosive sports like that .. ufc doesn't even compare to anyone of thoes leagues for skill... so to say hes the top fighter in the world is just ignorant
> ...


Once again you are just making shit up you ****ing idiot. This will be the 3rd ****ing time I have told you I have been watching MMA for 6 years not just UFC. I’m sure you have been able to watch 4 years worth of MMA on the internet in the past 2 years or so but I have actually been watching MMA since the early day. Again you just make shit up to try and make a point and I am forced to call you out AGAIN. Seriously just give up, no matter how much shit you make up you will never win because I will just keep calling you out.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Obviously you have never even seen him fight, so you are forced to do research. There have been so many things you have said that make it so clear you have no idea what you are talking about so you will just make stuff up. That is why it has been so easy for me and Cbingham to pick you apart. You have got to be the least educated person (as far as MMA goes) I have ever debated with, EVER. I am done with you because it is impossible to educate you. If you quote me I will probably respond but seriously, you need to just give up now.


lol, give up.. forfit.. thats fine... you know im right.. i have seen tito fight in his last 6 matches, and i wasn't impressed.. if this fighter is so amazing why could he not finish off forrest griffen... who should have won that match.. but the only reason why he lost was because Tito sat on him and laid in his guard..

its not me who knows little, it's the person who fails to see what im saying and realizing that his argument doesn't add up.. .just like most of the stuff that comes out of the states


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Once again you are just making shit up you ****ing idiot. This will be the 3rd ****ing time I have told you I have been watching MMA for 6 years not just UFC. I’m sure you have been able to watch 4 years worth of MMA on the internet in the past 2 years or so but I have actually been watching MMA since the early day. Again you just make shit up to try and make a point and I am forced to call you out AGAIN. Seriously just give up, no matter how much shit you make up you will never win because I will just keep calling you out.



what leagues have you seen? what fighters have you seen fight? ohh and id like to hear where you watch them?


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> lol, give up.. forfit.. thats fine... you know im right.. i have seen tito fight in his last 6 matches, and i wasn't impressed.. if this fighter is so amazing why could he not finish off forrest griffen... who should have won that match.. but the only reason why he lost was because Tito sat on him and laid in his guard..
> 
> its not me who knows little, it's the person who fails to see what im saying and realizing that his argument doesn't add up.. .just like most of the stuff that comes out of the states



No you are not right. Tito pounded Forest with elbows the entire first round, even with injuries he was still able to beat Forest. I’m not making excuses for Tito but that is just how it is. Again, you cant just make shit up and think that will help you win an argument because I will call you out every time.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

Haha, I just read your signature, I can’t believe someone who has spit out more bullshit in the past week than probably any other person on this website would say something like that. Hahahah.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> No you are not right. Tito pounded Forest with elbows the entire first round, even with injuries he was still able to beat Forest. I’m not making excuses for Tito but that is just how it is. Again, you cant just make shit up and think that will help you win an argument because I will call you out every time.



lol ya.. thats why at the end of the fight forrest stood back up did push ups and wanted to go antoher 5.... that doesn't sound like a guy who got beat up.. and tito at the end of the fight .. looked to be running out of gas.. he was tired and alittle hunched over.. 

lol im making shit up... you just state the fights but dont say anything about them!


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Haha, I just read your signature, I can’t believe someone who has spit out more bullshit in the past week than probably any other person on this website would say something like that. Hahahah.


Bullshit? I have done a full analize of Tito carrer.. yes at the beginning i left out his early stats (because tito atleast tried to do something with his fighting but now hes pussying out) and so i did a full analize of last 6 years... talked about what i know in different leagues, talked about how Tito doesn't finish fights.. i bring up fights ... and then you say im wrong and call me names....

if at all im the only one who has a brain in this debate


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

*Take note:*

He has yet to say what he has watched, where he has watched it and what fighters he has seen.......(all applies to other leagues)


trying not to say?


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> lol ya.. thats why at the end of the fight forrest stood back up did push ups and wanted to go antoher 5.... that doesn't sound like a guy who got beat up.. and tito at the end of the fight .. looked to be running out of gas.. he was tired and alittle hunched over..
> 
> lol im making shit up... you just state the fights but dont say anything about them!



Did you even watch that fight? Ken Shamrock said he thought the fight should have been stopped because “Tito was pounding him in the first round”. And yes you have made so much shit up, its like from day to day you just forget the past conversations we have had and all of the times myself or Cbingham have called you out.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Bullshit? I have done a full analize of Tito carrer.. yes at the beginning i left out his early stats (because tito atleast tried to do something with his fighting but now hes pussying out) and so i did a full analize of last 6 years... talked about what i know in different leagues, talked about how Tito doesn't finish fights.. i bring up fights ... and then you say im wrong and call me names....
> 
> if at all im the only one who has a brain in this debate


Haha, you are so delusional, just go back and read the thread. There are so many things you just made up (hence bullshit) that I or Cbingham have called you out on.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Did you even watch that fight? Ken Shamrock said he thought the fight should have been stopped because “Tito was pounding him in the first round”. And yes you have made so much shit up, its like from day to day you just forget the past conversations we have had and all of the times myself or Cbingham have called you out.


Man, the ONLY thing i was "called out" on was my stats.. and the only reason why i put out his LAST 6!!! years!!! was because really, thats only what applies.. you cant "go back to the basics" after fighting like shit for 10 years


and its ken shamrock.. the dude lost all of his skill when he went to WWF... if Ken was still fighting hardcore like he was when he was in the UFC Tito wouldn't have stood a chance


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Haha, you are so delusional, just go back and read the thread. There are so many things you just made up (hence bullshit) that I or Cbingham have called you out on.


You have to be the dumbiest kid alive.. what have you called me out on?? please repost it.. so i can rip you apart yet again


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Haha, you are so delusional, just go back and read the thread. There are so many things you just made up (hence bullshit) that I or Cbingham have called you out on.


so next time you try to argue, atleast bring correct info to the table, and be open to the idea that what you see might not be the best thing... cuz you have been wrong this whole arguement, and it shows that you will probably be wrong again.

Thanks for trying though, made me get a lot of points and move up to contender position  hehe


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> You have to be the dumbiest kid alive.. what have you called me out on?? please repost it.. so i can rip you apart yet again



You are with out a doubt the dumbest most delusional person I have ever dealt with. You have not been able to “rip me apart” one bit you jackass. I have been the one proving you wrong, just go back and read the thread. There are too many things to go back and quote them all for you, just go back and read.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Man, the ONLY thing i was "called out" on was my stats.. and the only reason why i put out his LAST 6!!! years!!! was because really, thats only what applies.. you cant "go back to the basics" after fighting like shit for 10 years
> 
> 
> and its ken shamrock.. the dude lost all of his skill when he went to WWF... if Ken was still fighting hardcore like he was when he was in the UFC Tito wouldn't have stood a chance



Go back and read man, there are many more things you were called out on. Shamrock may not be as skilled as he used to be but that isn’t even what we are talking about. He is still very knowledgeable about MMA, so I will take his word about a fight over yours any day. And as far as Tito not standing a chance against Ken in his prime, that is purely opinion. Like I said, you’re impossible to educate so I am done with you. I can only get so much satisfaction about making the same person look like an idiot again and again.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Go back and read man, there are many more things you were called out on. Shamrock may not be as skilled as he used to be but that isn’t even what we are talking about. He is still very knowledgeable about MMA, so I will take his word about a fight over yours any day. And as far as Tito not standing a chance against Ken in his prime, that is purely opinion. Like I said, you’re impossible to educate so I am done with you. I can only get so much satisfaction about making the same person look like an idiot again and again.


AHAHAH EDUCATE!!! HAHAHA you really are a joke.. i for got to mention that that i even proved to you about business...

stats, business, opinon, facts, fights and other hardcore evidence that are facts... i either a i saw, or b i looked up .... and to say im uneducated is a joke... i dont even know what else to say to that because when you are in a debate and you see your oppent starting bringing in stuff thats tought at school, and the only think you got is man your a moron, man you gotta be kidding me and stuff like that... doesn't mean you right.. you have yet to answer anything that i have asked you... which means you are afraid that what im saying might be right.. and you dont want to tell me because it will let everyone else see that you are wrong


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

*To end this:*

Please to anyone who reads all of this....

Know that i have post secondary education in business, know that all my facts are taken from stats pages or evidence that i have seen. And for anyone to "disprove" these facts are just trying to share their opinion..... because to be honest i really dont care who is the greatest fighter, i have my picks and i know who i like but that NEVER EVER gets infront of the facts.......

So, for people who were willing to read this, know that i provided only the FACTS nothing else, no opinion.

So, inconclusion know that I dont start posting tons unless theres people out there who are wrong and fail to see the point. Please don't judge these posts at me, I am only trying to show this person that they aren't seeing the whole picture, and that he has "blinders" on. Which makes it very hard to prove a point when you aren't acknowledged......

Peace, and happy posting.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> AHAHAH EDUCATE!!! HAHAHA you really are a joke.. i for got to mention that that i even proved to you about business...
> 
> stats, business, opinon, facts, fights and other hardcore evidence that are facts... i either a i saw, or b i looked up .... and to say im uneducated is a joke... i dont even know what else to say to that because when you are in a debate and you see your oppent starting bringing in stuff thats tought at school, and the only think you got is man your a moron, man you gotta be kidding me and stuff like that... doesn't mean you right.. you have yet to answer anything that i have asked you... which means you are afraid that what im saying might be right.. and you dont want to tell me because it will let everyone else see that you are wrong



Hahaha, you are a delusional idiot, I can only go back and forth with you for so long. I actually have a life, you lost a long time ago, you have not been able to prove me wrong about anything. If you say you did, that is just you making shit up again. Again, I’m done with you dumbass, go find another thread to bump up your post count. Just go back and read the thread and you can see that myself and Cbingham called you out several times and you were not able to prove any one wrong about anything.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Please to anyone who reads all of this....
> 
> Know that i have post secondary education in business, know that all my facts are taken from stats pages or evidence that i have seen. And for anyone to "disprove" these facts are just trying to share their opinion..... because to be honest i really dont care who is the greatest fighter, i have my picks and i know who i like but that NEVER EVER gets infront of the facts.......
> 
> ...



You just bumped up to a helpless delusional idiot. Ok, ok, I’m really done now.


----------



## j.farrell (Oct 6, 2006)

*cheapest move??*

im gonna have to say the vulcan neck pinch, thats some bullshit..


----------



## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

I can't believe that "NachoMama" compared pro wrestling to the wrestling that Tito, Hughes, Couture and countless others do. Pro wrestling is fake and it's for children. Freestyle, Greco Roman and Scholastic wrestling is a completely different thing.
To say you don't like Tito because you used to like WWE and "grew a brain" is a little bit ignorant.


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Please to anyone who reads all of this....
> 
> Know that i have post secondary education in business, know that all my facts are taken from stats pages or evidence that i have seen. And for anyone to "disprove" these facts are just trying to share their opinion..... because to be honest i really dont care who is the greatest fighter, i have my picks and i know who i like but that NEVER EVER gets infront of the facts.......
> 
> ...


Let me just say one more thing before you go riding off on your high horse, 
I have a hard time beleiving that you have any education after reading some of the ridiculous things you wrote, your grammar and spelling are awful, your posts are childish, like when you claim that there are only certain spots on your head that will KO you, or when you said Tito is not GnPing right because he doesnt KO all his opponents, but this is not my place to assume how educated you are. You claim that anyone that tries to disprove your "facts" is just trying to share their oppinion. I proved you wrong on many occasions with half my brain tied behind my back, just to make it fair. You took the actuall stats and cut 3 years and numerous fights out of them to better suite your arguement. So what we have here, is you manipulating the numbers so that you can base your oppinions. So in actuall conclusion, you stated ONLY oppinion based on rigged stats. dufus.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Let me just say one more thing before you go riding off on your high horse,
> I have a hard time beleiving that you have any education after reading some of the ridiculous things you wrote, your grammar and spelling are awful, your posts are childish, like when you claim that there are only certain spots on your head that will KO you, or when you said Tito is not GnPing right because he doesnt KO all his opponents, but this is not my place to assume how educated you are. You claim that anyone that tries to disprove your "facts" is just trying to share their oppinion. I proved you wrong on many occasions with half my brain tied behind my back, just to make it fair. You took the actuall stats and cut 3 years and numerous fights out of them to better suite your arguement. So what we have here, is you manipulating the numbers so that you can base your oppinions. So in actuall conclusion, you stated ONLY oppinion based on rigged stats. dufus.


Now, if you only had this must emotion when it comes to politics your country wouldn't be in shambles.........

Doing stats like that is how American's work, and I'd say the last 6 years of his fighting carrer is a good enough judgement to say that Tito doesn't finish the fight. Besides Ken Shamrock Tito hasn't TKO'd someone in 5 years!!!! But thanks for coming out again


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Now, if you only had this must emotion when it comes to politics your country wouldn't be in shambles.........
> 
> Doing stats like that is how American's work, and I'd say the last 6 years of his fighting carrer is a good enough judgement to say that Tito doesn't finish the fight. Besides Ken Shamrock Tito hasn't TKO'd someone in 5 years!!!! But thanks for coming out again


Excuse me, but my country is the worlds ONLY super power, and we have a BOOMING economy, we are far from being "in shambles" And I am sorry but Americans DO NOT do stats like that. I dont know where you are from, and I dont give a shit, I live in the greatest country on the planet, It is so great that you actually try to keep up with whats going on here, instead of your own pathetic country. You America haters are all green with jealousy, I am 21 years old and I do not have a college education, and I have way more opportunity than you do, and probably already make more money than you. You just follow trends that Americans set, so you go ahead and bash on my United States, but we both know who lives in the better country.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Excuse me, but my country is the worlds ONLY super power, and we have a BOOMING economy, we are far from being "in shambles" And I am sorry but Americans DO NOT do stats like that. I dont know where you are from, and I dont give a shit, I live in the greatest country on the planet, It is so great that you actually try to keep up with whats going on here, instead of your own pathetic country. You America haters are all green with jealousy, I am 21 years old and I do not have a college education, and I have way more opportunity than you do, and probably already make more money than you. You just follow trends that Americans set, so you go ahead and bash on my United States, but we both know who lives in the better country.


Wow, heres a hero. All this coming from an uneducated bafoon. You say you make more money then me, and you have more potential then i. When you cant even come up with ligitimate remarks, you call names and point fingers, but you still fail to see the irony in your last post. This is why its hard to beat you morons in a debate. Because you discredit all information provided by saying Im a moron. When infact if you look at his numbers, and ANY OTHER fight that Tito has been in (excluding Ken Shamrock because we all know how that fight was going to turn out) you will see that he is not a "gound and pound specialist", but only a dumb American who has tried so hard to get a fan base, so people can like him. But his fasaud doesn't fool me, or anyother real MMA fan.

America, the Fattest, Dumbest, Poorest (one of the highest poverity rate), and you are either rich because off your parents, or a failure like the rest of your family (not saying you are a failure, because if you have more money then me, it means mommy and daddy help you out). Now I know that sounds harsh, but i have been trying to keep nice just so that we can have a logical debate, but that's just to hard with idiots like you. Who seem to think that whatever they say is right, but don't accept any points. Remeber no one can grow if they don't think that what they are doing is wrong. So as your uneducated ass sits on your chair and you laugh as you read this, know that by saying your economy is "BOOMING" is a lie. Reason why i know this, is the "econmoy" has a direct corrolation to house prices, and if house prices are dropping so is your GDP, and if your GDP starts to drop then your country is about to hit a HUGE resssion unless someone is smart in the presidential seat........... 

And i have openly admitted that my stats were only for the last 6 years, but thats because if you have been fighting a certian way for 6 years, theres a very good chance you aren't going to change.

So again, to anyone who makes it this far to read all these posts, you can see a story unfold, and this story ends by me saying that "if this guy thinks these great things about his counrty, but yet again fails to see the facts, what else could he be wrong about?"

HEHE happy posting, this isn't ment to start an argument, it's only ment to prove this guy wrong yet again on his facts, whatever he hears on TV makes it right, no matter how hard you try and show him


----------



## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

You dont mean to start an arguement but you bash America? Cbingham hit it right on. Now kindly leave this forum. We already have a daman anyway, and hes a good daman unlike yourself. Theres no room on this forum for 2 damans now get the hell out.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

asskicker said:


> You dont mean to start an arguement but you bash America? Cbingham hit it right on. Now kindly leave this forum. We already have a daman anyway, and hes a good daman unlike yourself. Theres no room on this forum for 2 damans now get the hell out.


I only bashed because he said i dont know what im talking about. And i have to prove it to him, so that he can see that if he's wrong on this topic, he might be wrong again......

I don't mind American's, I actually never said i disliked them. But this HAS to be said


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Wow, heres a hero. All this coming from an uneducated bafoon. You say you make more money then me, and you have more potential then i. When you cant even come up with ligitimate remarks, you call names and point fingers, but you still fail to see the irony in your last post. This is why its hard to beat you morons in a debate. Because you discredit all information provided by saying Im a moron. When infact if you look at his numbers, and ANY OTHER fight that Tito has been in (excluding Ken Shamrock because we all know how that fight was going to turn out) you will see that he is not a "gound and pound specialist", but only a dumb American who has tried so hard to get a fan base, so people can like him. But his fasaud doesn't fool me, or anyother real MMA fan.
> 
> America, the Fattest, Dumbest, Poorest (one of the highest poverity rate), and you are either rich because off your parents, or a failure like the rest of your family (not saying you are a failure, because if you have more money then me, it means mommy and daddy help you out). Now I know that sounds harsh, but i have been trying to keep nice just so that we can have a logical debate, but that's just to hard with idiots like you. Who seem to think that whatever they say is right, but don't accept any points. Remeber no one can grow if they don't think that what they are doing is wrong. So as your uneducated ass sits on your chair and you laugh as you read this, know that by saying your economy is "BOOMING" is a lie. Reason why i know this, is the "econmoy" has a direct corrolation to house prices, and if house prices are dropping so is your GDP, and if your GDP starts to drop then your country is about to hit a HUGE resssion unless someone is smart in the presidential seat...........
> 
> ...



Here is where you go wrong, you say I dont make legitimate remarks, yet you are the one who has to manipulate Tito's stats to prove your oppinion of him, second you say that If I make good money its because my mom and dad help me out, you are wrong again. I come from a middle class family, my dad works 2 jobs just to make ends meet, and my mom works as a nurse and then comes home and runs a small floral business also just to make ends meet. My parents to not help me financially, at all. I have been working since I was legally able to, and now this "un-educated bafoon" is a rate analyst for a huge freight payment technology corporation. 

Now lets talk about my economy, about 2 weeks ago the stock market set a new record high, it finished higher than any other time in American history, un-employment is at 4.4% the lowest it has been in decades, house prices reflect very little on our economy. Once again I am so sorry that you live in such an inferior country, I find it funny that you and everyone else in the world is so concerned about the American economy and American problems, but I know why, they both directly affect you. I also think its funny that you bash on our way of life, when we built the model for how your government and society works. Americas form of government/economy is the most widely copied and most successful in the entire world.
Not to mention we give you inferior countries almost all of your luxuries, you watch our movies, listen to our music, you are on our internet right now, and most technologies originate from the United States military, cell phones, internet, GPS, and many many others. 

So go ahead and throw you little fit of jealousy, it does not bother me, because I am the one living and working in the greatest country, you just have to look in from the outside and talk shit.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Here is where you go wrong, you say I dont make legitimate remarks, yet you are the one who has to manipulate Tito's stats to prove your oppinion of him, second you say that If I make good money its because my mom and dad help me out, you are wrong again. I come from a middle class family, my dad works 2 jobs just to make ends meet, and my mom works as a nurse and then comes home and runs a small floral business also just to make ends meet. My parents to not help me financially, at all. I have been working since I was legally able to, and now this "un-educated bafoon" is a rate analyst for a huge freight payment technology corporation.
> 
> Now lets talk about my economy, about 2 weeks ago the stock market set a new record high, it finished higher than any other time in American history, un-employment is at 4.4% the lowest it has been in decades, house prices reflect very little on our economy. Once again I am so sorry that you live in such an inferior country, I find it funny that you and everyone else in the world is so concerned about the American economy and American problems, but I know why, they both directly affect you. I also think its funny that you bash on our way of life, when we built the model for how your government and society works. Americas form of government/economy is the most widely copied and most successful in the entire world.
> Not to mention we give you inferior countries almost all of your luxuries, you watch our movies, listen to our music, you are on our internet right now, and most technologies originate from the United States military, cell phones, internet, GPS, and many many others.
> ...


Wow you are so bind, it's not funny. It's hard to take off your blinders if you really dont know what you are talking about.

1st of all, companies are moving over seas and american people are losing jobs, but you failed to relize that. If you know anything about your last big resession called "the great depression", you would know that people were jumping out of there houses because they could't afford their bills, and they could have sold their house but since their house prices dropped steadly they house wasn't worth much. But again you failed to see that.

You say the stock market rose 4.4%, thats funny because in the last 2 years it has set a record high in almost every quater, and if you know ANYTHING about stocks, it's almost impossible to do. The only time it happend like that was with enron........ but again you will fail to relize the point im getting at.

And of couse I'm watching American's, because their "leader" is killing innocent people. But you again fail to see that. And not only are they killing innocent people, they are killing people from my home country and YES that directly affects ME! But you failed to see that also....

Now, STFU you really don't know what you are talking about, when you country is killing innocent people for an fake reason called "terrorist", all because you are all scared, worried about what people think, but then sound all tough by saying what you hear on tv. And thats where this whole things stems from, I say Tito is a Lay and Gayer, and you failed to see my points. You insists he a Ground and Pounder, but besides Ken Shamrock Tito hasn't TKO'd anyone in over 5 years. But you failed to see that.

It's funn because before you posted, i knew you were going to write about your stock market. Saying it's increased in record amounts, lol the reason why i knew this, is because it all over your crappy news stations. But none of your news stations talk about how bad your falling house prices are for your "great country". Just look at recent history, you can ask your partents they will most likely tell you that time in history wasn't a great time for "America" but again, you will fail to do you research. Because you are American and you don't need to think, someone else does it for you.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

Ok, if you are going to bring up Tito again, I am going to have to get back in this. You had no points about Tito! Every point you would try to make, I would prove you wrong! You don’t have to KO some one in every fight to be a GnP figher! Matt Hughes is a GnP fighter and he doesn’t always knock people out. You kept bringing up Dan Severn and out of his 70 victories he had 13 TKO’s and not even all of those were from GnP, he won most of his fights from submissions. You are the one that doesn’t get it. I really hate to get back into this pissing contest with you, but I’m not just going to let you make ridiculous statements like that over and over.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Ok, if you are going to bring up Tito again, I am going to have to get back in this. You had no points about Tito! Every point you would try to make, I would prove you wrong! You don’t have to KO some one in every fight to be a GnP figher! Matt Hughes is a GnP fighter and he doesn’t always knock people out. You kept bringing up Dan Severn and out of his 70 victories he had 13 TKO’s and not even all of those were from GnP, he won most of his fights from submissions. You are the one that doesn’t get it. I really hate to get back into this pissing contest with you, but I’m not just going to let you make ridiculous statements like that over and over.


See, now read my words carefully. You said they have submitions, where as Tito only has 1 Submission, so he can't TKO someone (he has but not in 5 years (yes i know about ken)) and he can't submit someone (he's only done that once), and you say hes a GnP, how so?


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Wow you are so bind, it's not funny. It's hard to take off your blinders if you really dont know what you are talking about.
> 
> 1st of all, companies are moving over seas and american people are losing jobs, but you failed to relize that. If you know anything about your last big resession called "the great depression", you would know that people were jumping out of there houses because they could't afford their bills, and they could have sold their house but since their house prices dropped steadly they house wasn't worth much. But again you failed to see that.
> 
> ...



Actually I said that un-employment is at 4.4% jackass. And the stock market has been setting record highs and continues to climb. We are not in a recession so you housing prices are irrelivent. And I know all about outsourcing, but with that outsourcing comes new administrative jobs, yeah we ship manufactoring overseas to increase profits to expand the business which ultimately creates more jobs and a better economy, I know exactly what I am talking about dipshit.

Now on to the next point, you claim that terrorism is fake.............................................. I seem to recall a little incident called SEPTEMBER 11! you have to be the dumbest most blind mother ****er on the planet! 3000 innocent Americans were killed by you burka wearing bastards! and for what? because we dont agree with you religious ideology? 
Or maybe its because WE are flourishing, while they are stuck in their ancient religious battles killing each other and poverty stricken because nobody can work together due to their religious beleifs. Americans are NOT killing innocent people, we have liberated hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq and Afghanistan. If you want to see killing innocent people take a look at this..Iraqi Sites Guide - The Mass Graves

That is what we are stopping you ****ing narrow minded idiot. You people are just so filled with hate. Why do you hate so much? 

And I also seem to recall the World Trade Center being bombed in 1993, The USS Cole being attacked, multiple US Embassies and Military installations, also train bombings in Spain, Air plane high jacking plots in England, so dont hand me that "fake reason" BULLSHIT! Are we just supposed to sit back and take those attacks, and not retaliate?


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Actually I said that un-employment is at 4.4% jackass. And the stock market has been setting record highs and continues to climb. We are not in a recession so you housing prices are irrelivent. And I know all about outsourcing, but with that outsourcing comes new administrative jobs, yeah we ship manufactoring overseas to increase profits to expand the business which ultimately creates more jobs and a better economy, I know exactly what I am talking about dipshit.
> 
> Now on to the next point, you claim that terrorism is fake.............................................. I seem to recall a little incident called SEPTEMBER 11! you have to be the dumbest most blind mother ****er on the planet! 3000 innocent Americans were killed by you burka wearing bastards! and for what? because we dont agree with you religious ideology?
> Or maybe its because WE are flourishing, while they are stuck in their ancient religious battles killing each other and poverty stricken because nobody can work together due to their religious beleifs. Americans are NOT killing innocent people, we have liberated hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq and Afghanistan. If you want to see killing innocent people take a look at this..Iraqi Sites Guide - The Mass Graves
> ...


Again you are only told what you see on TV, that is your #1 source of infomation............ so for all of that, all of your yelling and complaining, all this responce is going to get is.... ready for it... here it comes...

DO YOUR RESEARCH!!!

ohh you would like to give me a website, heres one for you Alex Jones' Infowars.com :: There is a War on for Your Mind!


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> See, now read my words carefully. You said they have submitions, where as Tito only has 1 Submission, so he can't TKO someone (he has but not in 5 years (yes i know about ken)) and he can't submit someone (he's only done that once), and you say hes a GnP, how so?



So what? We are not even talking about submissions we are talking about GnP that is why I brought up the submissions. I have seen interview with people like Joe Rogan who says Tito has great JJ skills but he would rather use JJ defense and GnP than submit someone. So don’t sit there and say “he can’t submit some one” when you have no idea. JUST WATCH HIS FIGHTS! Damnit man, I can only explain to same ****ing person so many times how GnP works in the same thread! You are completely helpless, for you it will just take time before you realize what GnP is about.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> So what? We are not even talking about submissions we are talking about GnP that is why I brought up the submissions. I have seen interview with people like Joe Rogan who says Tito has great JJ skills but he would rather use JJ defense and GnP than submit someone. So don’t sit there and say “he can’t submit some one” when you have no idea. JUST WATCH HIS FIGHTS! Damnit man, I can only explain to same ****ing person so many times how GnP works in the same thread! You are completely helpless, for you it will just take time before you realize what GnP is about.


I have watched his fights, and as i said ealier, THEY PUT ME TO SLEEP, because he does the samething over and over and over and over and over and over.... they might take the win because he on the top, but common now Tito has more skill then just laying on someone


----------



## Conor.M (Nov 8, 2006)

daman5 said:


> I have watched his fights, and as i said ealier, THEY PUT ME TO SLEEP, because he does the samething over and over and over and over and over and over.... they might take the win because he on the top, but common now Tito has more skill then just laying on someone


shut the **** up


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Conor.M said:


>


why? affraid that someone who has a different opinion then you, might be a terrorist?


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> I have watched his fights, and as i said ealier, THEY PUT ME TO SLEEP, because he does the samething over and over and over and over and over and over.... they might take the win because he on the top, but common now Tito has more skill then just laying on someone


I know he has more skill than you say because I know he doesn’t “just lay” on any one


----------



## Conor.M (Nov 8, 2006)

no cus ive ben readin gur posts and u don't no shit about shit


----------



## Conor.M (Nov 8, 2006)

damans the new undisputed MMAfreak, kid no jack shit about MMA but comes on the site like he knows wut he's talkin about


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> I know he has more skill than you say because I know he doesn’t “just lay” on any one


well i never said once that i could take him, but if he take it to the card, and wins because of his "GnP" thats not a very good "GnP", he's useless on the ground, he tries to stack them against the fence, but doesn't punch hard enough to inflice that much damage, then he uses his elbow, but most of the time they don't connect that good, so the fighter looks like hes getting beating, but in reality (like forest Griffen) they can stand back up and are ready for some more


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Conor.M said:


> damans the new undisputed MMAfreak, kid no jack shit about MMA but comes on the site like he knows wut he's talkin about


WHAT?!?!, grow up little kiddy. All I said was that Tito is the cheapest move, all of him, he doesn't finish the fight


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

*Tito is overrated*

Tito is infact the cheapest move in MMA. Hes so annoying to watch...boring and shitty. Lay and Gay expert. I agree with Daman. Him and Matt hughes should have a gay fest!

NaChOmAmA


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

Conor.M said:


> damans the new undisputed MMAfreak, kid no jack shit about MMA but comes on the site like he knows wut he's talkin about


I would say he is even worse because he actually knows less. I can’t believe the stuff he has been posting and thinking any one with MMA knowledge will not know he is full of shit. But what do you know, yet another person finally decides to tell him he doesn’t know what he is talking about.


----------



## Conor.M (Nov 8, 2006)

daman5 said:


> WHAT?!?!, grow up little kiddy. All I said was that Tito is the cheapest move, all of him, he doesn't finish the fight


tito is the cheapest move, is tito a move, wtf does that mean...dude ive ben reading ur posts and u don't no wtf ur talkin about so stfu


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> I would say he is even worse because he actually knows less. I can’t believe the stuff he has been posting and thinking any one with MMA knowledge will not know he is full of shit. But what do you know, yet another person finally decides to tell him he doesn’t know what he is talking about.


lol, uhoh, someone else is on my side too.. ohh no... 2 for 2 AAHHHH this is soo imbalanced!! aahh

lol, listen to you. The only real reason why you sound like you have more people talking to you, is because I am the only one who will talk, the rest dont really care.... Given i dont either, but its fun to see you resorting to the lowest form of communication in a fourm. It shows your true intelligence.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Conor.M said:


> tito is the cheapest move, is tito a move, wtf does that mean...dude ive ben reading ur posts and u don't no wtf ur talkin about so stfu


His fighting style, moron.


----------



## Conor.M (Nov 8, 2006)

NaChOmAmA said:


> Tito is infact the cheapest move in MMA. Hes so annoying to watch...boring and shitty. Lay and Gay expert. I agree with Daman. Him and Matt hughes should have a gay fest!
> 
> NaChOmAmA


comin from a guy who has royce gracie as a fav fighter, its mirko not marko guy


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Conor.M said:


> comin from a guy who has royce gracie as a fav fighter, its mirko not marko guy


lol, you really never watched much MMA when you were younger, Royce was amazing, one of the best. Him and Ken help build your UFC league, with there 90 min battle royal.... but i guess you were to young for that


----------



## Conor.M (Nov 8, 2006)

daman5 said:


> lol, uhoh, someone else is on my side too.. ohh no... 2 for 2 AAHHHH this is soo imbalanced!! aahh
> 
> lol, listen to you. The only real reason why you sound like you have more people talking to you, is because I am the only one who will talk, the rest dont really care.... Given i dont either, but its fun to see you resorting to the lowest form of communication in a fourm. It shows your true intelligence.


stfu Rush he wus talkin about u not me


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> well i never said once that i could take him, but if he take it to the card, and wins because of his "GnP" thats not a very good "GnP", he's useless on the ground, he tries to stack them against the fence, but doesn't punch hard enough to inflice that much damage, then he uses his elbow, but most of the time they don't connect that good, so the fighter looks like hes getting beating, but in reality (like forest Griffen) they can stand back up and are ready for some more


Yeah that looks like a guy who didn't take any sort of beating.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)




----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

Ok damnit, here is the link.
Tito Ortiz (camo trunks) vs. Forrest Griffin


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> lol, uhoh, someone else is on my side too.. ohh no... 2 for 2 AAHHHH this is soo imbalanced!! aahh
> 
> lol, listen to you. The only real reason why you sound like you have more people talking to you, is because I am the only one who will talk, the rest dont really care.... Given i dont either, but its fun to see you resorting to the lowest form of communication in a fourm. It shows your true intelligence.


Ok, there have been a total of 4 people arguing against you. Again you are making shit up to make yourself seem like your better off then you really are. And the reason no one is really arguing for you is because you are making some of the dumbest post in the history of this website that my self and Cbingham have easily been able to tear apart.


----------



## Conor.M (Nov 8, 2006)

daman5 said:


> lol, you really never watched much MMA when you were younger, Royce was amazing, one of the best. Him and Ken help build your UFC league, with there 90 min battle royal.... but i guess you were to young for that


wow man....i wus pointing out his fav. fighter wus gracie cus from his post it seemed like he didn't like fighters that brought the game to the ground "Matt Hughes and Tito should have gay fest" "Lay and Gay"...Royce being a prime example of someone who is content laying on his back for the whole fight it seemes he contradicted himself when he says he hates that fighting style but then put Gracie down on his fav. fighter list. Ive ben watchin MMA for a long time u ****in kid..." I'm a huge shamrock fan but to discribe his and royce's 2nd fight has a "90 min battle royale" shows that u basically have no idea on wu the fuc k u are talkin about.....all that fight wus wus ken layin in Gracie's gaurd the whole fight droppin a couple elbows...........seriously man im not trying to be an asshole but maybe it would be a good idea for u to go watch some ****in MMA before attempting to write on an MMA site


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

:thumbsup:


Conor.M said:


> wow man....i wus pointing out his fav. fighter wus gracie cus from his post it seemed like he didn't like fighters that brought the game to the ground "Matt Hughes and Tito should have gay fest" "Lay and Gay"...Royce being a prime example of someone who is content laying on his back for the whole fight it seemes he contradicted himself when he says he hates that fighting style but then put Gracie down on his fav. fighter list. Ive ben watchin MMA for a long time u ****in kid..." I'm a huge shamrock fan but to discribe his and royce's 2nd fight has a "90 min battle royale" shows that u basically have no idea on wu the fuc k u are talkin about.....all that fight wus wus ken layin in Gracie's gaurd the whole fight droppin a couple elbows...........seriously man im not trying to be an asshole but maybe it would be a good idea for u to go watch some ****in MMA before attempting to write on an MMA site


:thumbsup: This is what I’m talking about daman, see how easy it is for some one to pick your post apart. This is what my self and Cbingham have been doing for days.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

I forgot some one, there have actually been 5 people speak out against you. How many more people have to expose you before you will just give up in this thread?


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

There is a difference between being a BJJ guy trying to submit someone the whole time and a obviously dominant wrestler sitting on top of someone for 15 minutes and not being able to knock the guy out. I love old school Royce tapping everyone out in under 3 minutes. I do not however, like how Tito has so many decisions and how he cant finish a fight. Thats all I am saying. I find him boring and crappy. Hes an excellent wrestler and has tons of power...if hes sitting on top of someone he should be ENDING the fight...not waiting it out and getting decisions. Hence why I said hes a Lay and Gay expert. 

NaChOmAmA

P.S. Yea i got his name wrong, I looked it up on some random site and it said Marko. In my defense, at least i got Fedors last name right  haha


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

He stays busy and pushes the pace in his fights, he doesn’t just lay on top of any one.


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

TLB said:


> He stays busy and pushes the pace in his fights, he doesn’t just lay on top of any one.


Staying busy throwing weak ass hammerfiss elboooosss *matt serra styles*

haha

NaChOmAmA


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

NaChOmAmA said:


> Staying busy throwing weak ass hammerfiss elboooosss *matt serra styles*
> 
> haha
> 
> NaChOmAmA


Yeah, comparing Matt Serra to Tito Ortiz is laughable, I have nothing against Serra but that is not a good comparison. If you come across Punishment 101 on this site look at his avatar, that is not a “weak ass elbow”.


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

TLB said:


> Yeah, comparing Matt Serra to Tito Ortiz is laughable, I have nothing against Serra but that is not a good comparison. If you come across Punishment 101 on this site look at his avatar, that is not a “weak ass elbow”.


haha im not comparing the 2. I was just making fun of how Matt Serra was saying Hammerfist Elbow in that first TUF 4 match when he was couching carter. HAMMERFISS ELBOOOOSSS!!


Dont get me wrong, Tito has the ability to own a lot of people HE JUST NEEDS TO SMARTEN UP and END THE FIGHTS. I know he can if he would use his strength and stop "Staying Busy" and do some real ground and pound for the W.


NaChOmAmA


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Again you are only told what you see on TV, that is your #1 source of infomation............ so for all of that, all of your yelling and complaining, all this responce is going to get is.... ready for it... here it comes...
> 
> DO YOUR RESEARCH!!!
> 
> ohh you would like to give me a website, heres one for you Alex Jones' Infowars.com :: There is a War on for Your Mind!



What more research do you want me to do? The things I have listed are FACT my friend. You dont even have a response for the things I am telling you, all you did was link me to a propoganda website, filled with hatred, bias, and ideological blogs. you are pathetic and so is your veiw of the world. And I dont get my info only from TV, I have a brother who served in Afghanistan, my best friend Adam is about to deploy to Iraq for his 2nd tour of duty, yes some of my info comes from TV, radio, and internet, but I do not get it from propoganda filled blogs and hate websites. Plus most large media in the US is liberal and only reports the negatives of the war, I go the other direction and look at the large number of positive things going on. I think you need to do some research, and I don't mean reading those websites that only cater to your idealogical beleifs, they are filled with lies, conspiracy theories and messages of hate. And I am not the one complaining, you started this arguement, I provide facts and hard evidence, you just tell me to do my research over and over. I think anyone who reads this would agree with me, unless the person reading it is a turban wearing member of a radical muslim group.


----------



## *IceMAn* (Sep 27, 2006)

Grabbing the fence when some one is taking you down


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Ok damnit, here is the link.
> Tito Ortiz (camo trunks) vs. Forrest Griffin


ahah look at that pic.. it says it all.. LAY AND GAY, lays in peoples gaurds and HAMMER FIST/ELBOW thanks for proving my point there.. with out you even realizing that im talking about .. hahahahahaha!!

gg kid


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Conor.M said:


> wow man....i wus pointing out his fav. fighter wus gracie cus from his post it seemed like he didn't like fighters that brought the game to the ground "Matt Hughes and Tito should have gay fest" "Lay and Gay"...Royce being a prime example of someone who is content laying on his back for the whole fight it seemes he contradicted himself when he says he hates that fighting style but then put Gracie down on his fav. fighter list. Ive ben watchin MMA for a long time u ****in kid..." I'm a huge shamrock fan but to discribe his and royce's 2nd fight has a "90 min battle royale" shows that u basically have no idea on wu the fuc k u are talkin about.....all that fight wus wus ken layin in Gracie's gaurd the whole fight droppin a couple elbows...........seriously man im not trying to be an asshole but maybe it would be a good idea for u to go watch some ****in MMA before attempting to write on an MMA site


HAHA see how much you know about fighting styles, thats what he does, he takes the hits and waits for the correct moment to submit someone. but again you morons over there think that laying on your back is loosing when infact that what he wants!!!!

but thanks for coming out and trying to be aprat of something


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> What more research do you want me to do? The things I have listed are FACT my friend. You dont even have a response for the things I am telling you, all you did was link me to a propoganda website, filled with hatred, bias, and ideological blogs. you are pathetic and so is your veiw of the world. And I dont get my info only from TV, I have a brother who served in Afghanistan, my best friend Adam is about to deploy to Iraq for his 2nd tour of duty, yes some of my info comes from TV, radio, and internet, but I do not get it from propoganda filled blogs and hate websites. Plus most large media in the US is liberal and only reports the negatives of the war, I go the other direction and look at the large number of positive things going on. I think you need to do some research, and I don't mean reading those websites that only cater to your idealogical beleifs, they are filled with lies, conspiracy theories and messages of hate. And I am not the one complaining, you started this arguement, I provide facts and hard evidence, you just tell me to do my research over and over. I think anyone who reads this would agree with me, unless the person reading it is a turban wearing member of a radical muslim group.


well, saying Terroriest are afgans, are like saying all americans are iggnorant.....

and you do realize that website i gave you, is a well knows journlist, who actually predicted 9/11 was going to happen before it hit.... and he said that osama was going to be the big named mentioned... but again you are blinded by your hate, and sheilded by your ignorance


----------



## UFC (Oct 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> HAHA see how much you know about fighting styles, thats what he does, he takes the hits and waits for the correct moment to submit someone. but again you morons over there think that laying on your back is loosing when infact that what he wants!!!!
> 
> but thanks for coming out and trying to be aprat of something


ur a ****in idiot


----------



## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

Why are so many people still argueing with him about MMA? Tito is my favorite fighter and i dont give a **** what hes saying about him. This punks insulting my country and hes opening his mouth about shit he doesnt understand. Im not even gonna start making arguement because Cbingham and others have already covered it. As mod I will make it my business that you get banned.

*NO ONE INSULTS MY COUNTRY MOTHER ****ER!!! *bottom line


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

asskicker said:


> Why are so many people still argueing with him about MMA? Tito is my favorite fighter and i dont give a **** what hes saying about him. This punks insulting my country and hes opening his mouth about shit he doesnt understand. Im not even gonna start making arguement because Cbingham and others have already covered it. As mod I will make it my business that you get banned.
> 
> *NO ONE INSULTS MY COUNTRY MOTHER ****ER!!! *bottom line


If I could give you a high five, I would asskicker!


----------



## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

YAY! arguing about mma is one thing, but taking to blatant insult to show ignorance and immaturity is another! asskicker for mod of the month! 

(not only because of this, he's a cool guy...lol)


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

*haha*



asskicker said:


> Why are so many people still argueing with him about MMA? Tito is my favorite fighter and i dont give a **** what hes saying about him. This punks insulting my country and hes opening his mouth about shit he doesnt understand. Im not even gonna start making arguement because Cbingham and others have already covered it. As mod I will make it my business that you get banned.
> 
> *NO ONE INSULTS MY COUNTRY MOTHER ****ER!!! *bottom line



I insult your country on a daily basis. I just dont understand how a lot of Americans are still patriotic about their country, when so many innocent people are being slaughtered for a reason that does not justify the means. Greed and deception.

Anyways, this is a forum about MMA, not about world issues...although I could talk all day about the injustice the American people are putting up with. You guys should be standing up and overthrowing the government and getting Bush and his hidden agenda out of control for good.

NaChOmAmA


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> ahah look at that pic.. it says it all.. LAY AND GAY, lays in peoples gaurds and HAMMER FIST/ELBOW thanks for proving my point there.. with out you even realizing that im talking about .. hahahahahaha!!
> 
> gg kid


You ****ing idiot, it’s a still picture that shows how much damage he has done to his opponents from his ground and pound. It proves my point not yours dumbass.


----------



## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

NaChOmAmA said:


> I insult your country on a daily basis. I just dont understand how a lot of Americans are still patriotic about their country, when so many innocent people are being slaughtered for a reason that does not justify the means. Greed and deception.


what a supremely ignorant and idiotic statement! true, the bush administration has commited horrendous crimes and has basically plunged this country into a pit of ineptitude... but it was he and his party that did this... not the American people, and not America herself! you don't just abandon patriotism because a corrupt leader has lied/cheated/stolen his way into office (along with his corrupt party)! things have already begun to change. true, it's up to the dems to do something and not just sit on empty promises, but i will never insult America... only the assholes who do everything in their power to screw it up and rocket it back to 200 years ago!!!


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

pt447 said:


> what a supremely ignorant and idiotic statement! true, the bush administration has commited horrendous crimes and has basically plunged this country into a pit of ineptitude... but it was he and his party that did this... not the American people, and not America herself! you don't just abandon patriotism because a corrupt leader has lied/cheated/stolen his way into office (along with his corrupt party)! things have already begun to change. true, it's up to the dems to do something and not just sit on empty promises, but i will never insult America... only the assholes who do everything in their power to screw it up and rocket it back to 200 years ago!!!



I am in 100 percent agreement with you. I dont think it was ignorant or idiotic on my part at all. I am just as worried about the future of America as any American. I want the corruption and death to stop. I just feel that the American people should stand up more and be vocal about their leader. Your leader is representing your people...so what he does directly influences the world views of your people. If you do not want to be labelled as an American Idiot, stand up and Impeach Bush. Us Canadians do not like our leader and after a few months we are already voting Non confidence and getting him out of there.

I have nothing against an individual American...just the American psyche. You may not be one of the AMERICA IS THE BEST REGARDLESS OF WHAT WE DO types. But I have ran into an infinate amount of those types that are PRO war and believe that BUSH is the man. If I have mislabelled you, I apologize...but I just want to see this world stop the killing and get along. 

END CORRUPTION! 

NaChOmAmA


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

asskicker said:


> Why are so many people still argueing with him about MMA? Tito is my favorite fighter and i dont give a **** what hes saying about him. This punks insulting my country and hes opening his mouth about shit he doesnt understand. Im not even gonna start making arguement because Cbingham and others have already covered it. As mod I will make it my business that you get banned.
> 
> *NO ONE INSULTS MY COUNTRY MOTHER ****ER!!! *bottom line


See, it's the people like this that make American's look bad, as apposed to looking at the facts, and trying to do something about it. This person ignores them and decided that no matter how bad it get, and no matter how wrong is he, its just easier to think that hes right.

man, you think i didn't have a plan when i started this argument, the whole reason i pick this fourm was because i know it has a lot of american's. I know it has people who are bull headed. I know it has some smart people in here. So to start an arguement about this stuff, Im just trying to show you what people think outside of America. It's not another country's right to stand up for America's injustice, it's the people's. But none of you have/will and it's scary because then you have a super power with people who dont know what to do with it.

Your county has a chance to do something great with the power, but instead you are trying to fight a label like terrorist. Where something you can't see, something you can't touch, and something you can win. There are bad people in this world, but if you can't find them that doesn't mean you can just kill random people because of it.

this is a hypithecital question.

Say China drops 500,000 troops in America, would you all then start to defend your country? (i'd hope so), but then the Chinesse people started to lable you as terrorists because you are killing their soldiers, so they start to deploy more, so you start to kill more. Then more countires start to join to kill America all because they think you are terrorists, and are killing your soldiers.

now, does that make you a terrorist for defending your country?


----------



## The MuscleShark (Nov 3, 2006)

Wow you guys are hilarious.....debating about world issues.......
The world is all twisted no matter what country you are from....Daman5 I thought we told you to stop speaking yesterday no one listens or cares about what you think anymore......Mr. I can beat everyone on the tough show because none of them have experience.


----------



## The MuscleShark (Nov 3, 2006)

NaChOmAmA said:


> I am in 100 percent agreement with you. I dont think it was ignorant or idiotic on my part at all. I am just as worried about the future of America as any American. I want the corruption and death to stop. I just feel that the American people should stand up more and be vocal about their leader. Your leader is representing your people...so what he does directly influences the world views of your people. If you do not want to be labelled as an American Idiot, stand up and Impeach Bush. Us Canadians do not like our leader and after a few months we are already voting Non confidence and getting him out of there.
> 
> I have nothing against an individual American...just the American psyche. You may not be one of the AMERICA IS THE BEST REGARDLESS OF WHAT WE DO types. But I have ran into an infinate amount of those types that are PRO war and believe that BUSH is the man. If I have mislabelled you, I apologize...but I just want to see this world stop the killing and get along.
> 
> ...


Good point by the way... I agree with you


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

The MuscleShark said:


> Wow you guys are hilarious.....debating about world issues.......
> The world is all twisted no matter what country you are from....Daman5 I thought we told you to stop speaking yesterday no one listens or cares about what you think anymore......Mr. I can beat everyone on the tough show because none of them have experience.


lol now you are saying that i can beat everyone on TUF? wow, way to put words in my mouth. i simply said tuf sucks, but i wanted to say it in a nice way so it wouldn't start an argument. But just before you said i thought i was a league...... wow way to be contradictory.. w00t


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

*I agree*

I would have to agree with Daman.

Terrorism is endless only because of the endless bombardment of other countries. Its so easy to just point your finger at the guy with the turban and call him a terrorist only to perpetuate the war. Stop being so racist for godsake! Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria are NOT terrorist nations. Sure they have some people who are extremists...but if you look at the definition of terrorist you will find:

adj : characteristic of someone who employs terrorism (especially as a political weapon); "terrorist activity"; "terrorist state" n : a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities

The real terrorist in this world is President Bush and his followers who are murdering people at a rate that should be plastered across the world media as Genocide. But unforunately, the media is under the payroll and nothing of merit ever surfaces. Information is power, and without it, a world of blind fools will exist. Stop believing what you hear, and do some research about this world and how it runs.

Like Daman said...would you not try and kill a force that was inhabiting your country? Would you not try and kill as many of them as possible? I would sure hope so...I know I would! 

This world is a terrible place ruled by corruption and greed. It is up to the people to hold the Government and other elite forces accountable. It is time to stop taking it up the ass and stand up for what we know is right. 

END CORRUPTION!

NaChOmAmA


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

NaChOmAmA said:


> I would have to agree with Daman.
> 
> Terrorism is endless only because of the endless bombardment of other countries. Its so easy to just point your finger at the guy with the turban and call him a terrorist only to perpetuate the war. Stop being so racist for godsake! Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria are NOT terrorist nations. Sure they have some people who are extremists...but if you look at the definition of terrorist you will find:
> 
> ...


I think this post need to be restated.


----------



## The MuscleShark (Nov 3, 2006)

daman5 said:


> lol now you are saying that i can beat everyone on TUF? wow, way to put words in my mouth. i simply said tuf sucks, but i wanted to say it in a nice way so it wouldn't start an argument. But just before you said i thought i was a league...... wow way to be contradictory.. w00t


Well this is what you wrote jackass to me the other day;

but all of that being said, they again are only fighting level B fighers... most of the TUF fighers barley have any background in a figting style, again most of them are just wrestlers and can toss a puinch... i like Ken Flo hes smart.. where more of the TUF fighters aren't they just throw punches and dive at there oppent.. *and ever time i watch the ulimate fighter it makes me laugh.. cuz i know i can fight better then most of thoes guy.. they only thing they *really have on me is the power.. because i dont spend my life working out... lol.. but the TUF people .. some of them even have their HEAD back then they are punching.. they look like girls.. hahaha yes given with the amout of people you have see in tuf .. there are always bound for a few to stand out

IM not contradicting myself, im just proving what you said so there you go 
and stop defending yourself your making it worst


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

NaChOmAmA said:


> I insult your country on a daily basis. I just dont understand how a lot of Americans are still patriotic about their country, when so many innocent people are being slaughtered for a reason that does not justify the means. Greed and deception.
> 
> Anyways, this is a forum about MMA, not about world issues...although I could talk all day about the injustice the American people are putting up with. You guys should be standing up and overthrowing the government and getting Bush and his hidden agenda out of control for good.
> 
> NaChOmAmA


What innocent people are being slaughtered? who? where? provide me some proof of that outrageously ignorant statement. In Iraq we toppled the regeim that was doing the mass killing of innocents, What about the mass graves in Iraq, what about the gas attacks of the Kurds? what about the Iran vs Iraq war, where Iraq lost over 1 million troops over nothing. You are so blind to the facts. WE STOPPED THIS TYRANT! And now he will be hanged for the murder of millions of his own people. Millions of people in Iraq were living under an oppressive murderous regeim. We went over there and stopped it, and you say we are killing innocents? you are stupid.
And its not just the United States. Great Brittan, Spain, Australia, The Czech Republic, Italy, Lituanua, Poland, Japan, Norway, New Zealand, Portugal, and Romania are all fighting this war too. There are 33 named countries participating in the war. It is a worldwide effort, but you people fail to see that You guys are so quick to point the finger at George Bush. Didnt the Untited States Conress VOTE to go to Iraq? why yes I beleive they did. So shut the **** up about America being corrupt, and having hidden agendas.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> What innocent people are being slaughtered? who? where? provide me some proof of that outrageously ignorant statement. In Iraq we toppled the regeim that was doing the mass killing of innocents, What about the mass graves in Iraq, what about the gas attacks of the Kurds? what about the Iran vs Iraq war, where Iraq lost over 1 million troops over nothing. You are so blind to the facts. WE STOPPED THIS TYRANT! And now he will be hanged for the murder of millions of his own people. Millions of people in Iraq were living under an oppressive murderous regeim. We went over there and stopped it, and you say we are killing innocents? you are stupid.
> And its not just the United States. Great Brittan, Spain, Australia, The Czech Republic, Italy, Lituanua, Poland, Japan, Norway, New Zealand, Portugal, and Romania are all fighting this war too. There are 33 named countries participating in the war. It is a worldwide effort, but you people fail to see that You guys are so quick to point the finger at George Bush. Didnt the Untited States Conress VOTE to go to Iraq? why yes I beleive they did. So shut the **** up about America being corrupt, and having hidden agendas.


hahaha, how many people have to die because of 9/11? everyone? is that how its going to go. because if anyone stands up against bush is put into prison. anyone how has their own opinion about his is labled as a bad person. how can you trust a govenment like that?

and to insinuate that 9/11 was done by terrorists is just out landish. Is it hard to believe that war = money. and money = corruption, and corruption = out rageous actions.

Think about how the towers fell, at free fall speed, thats odd. Why was there so much resistance from the government? why did the the govenrment not release the full tapes from the pentigon? why was there so must resistance from the government at the beginning with the 9/11 commission at the beginning? WHY CANT ANY OF THESE QUESTIONS BE ANSWERED?!?!?!

lol, i know this is crazy to be talking about this, but its ungastly to be justifying these deaths. 

And, yes i might be wrong, i might be crazy, but will you believe it more in video form? If you think im crazy just look up terrorstorm, and you dont even have to watch it all. Ill even spoil for you, its about how the american government had plans to start different wars all around the world for money!!!

AAHHHHHHHHHH please you are the only people to stop this, with your bull headed attitude and ablility to argue will get you far in stop YOUR own TYRANT!


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

NaChOmAmA said:


> I would have to agree with Daman.
> 
> Terrorism is endless only because of the endless bombardment of other countries. Its so easy to just point your finger at the guy with the turban and call him a terrorist only to perpetuate the war. Stop being so racist for godsake! Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria are NOT terrorist nations. Sure they have some people who are extremists...but if you look at the definition of terrorist you will find:
> 
> ...


What in the f*ck are you talking about? 


SEPTEMBER 11 2001 !! 


Are you that retarded? Nobody calls Iraqi's terrorist, we call the ones killing US troops Insurgants you jackass. Terrorism is real, and if you dont beleive it go ask one of the families who lost a loved one on that september day, over 3000 innocent Americans killed. In the 90's alone there were 30 terrorist attacks against US installations throughout the world, the World Trade center was bombed in 1993, the USS Cole was bombed off the coast of Yemen. WAKE UP MORON! And Iran is #1 on the list of Nations that fund terrorist groups throughout the world.

And you said "Terrorism is endless only because of the endless bombardment of other countries." 

Hmmmmmm..........................before september 11th, I dont recall bombarding ANYBODY, do you? 

And again, show me some proof that "The real terrorist in this world is President Bush and his followers who are murdering people at a rate that should be plastered across the world media as Genocide." YOU ARE A FOOL! 

Here is your genocide, 

Mass Graves of Iraq: Uncovering Atrocities

USAID: Assistance for Iraq - Iraq's Legacy of Terror: Mass Graves

http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/pdf/iraq_mass_graves.pdf

CNN.com - Mass grave unearthed in Iraq - Oct 13, 2004

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Babies found in Iraqi mass grave

113 Kurds Are Found In Mass Grave

Here is the best evidence, Iraqi Sites Guide - The Mass Graves


Here is the gas attacks, 

Nerve Gas used in Northern Iraq on Kurds

Halabja poison gas attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


You people need to wake up, and stop with the conspiracy theories, YOU CANNOT ARGUE WITH THESE PICTURES. If you even attempt, you are sub-human and should be shot


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> What innocent people are being slaughtered? who? where? provide me some proof of that outrageously ignorant statement. In Iraq we toppled the regeim that was doing the mass killing of innocents, What about the mass graves in Iraq, what about the gas attacks of the Kurds? what about the Iran vs Iraq war, where Iraq lost over 1 million troops over nothing. You are so blind to the facts. WE STOPPED THIS TYRANT! And now he will be hanged for the murder of millions of his own people. Millions of people in Iraq were living under an oppressive murderous regeim. We went over there and stopped it, and you say we are killing innocents? you are stupid.
> And its not just the United States. Great Brittan, Spain, Australia, The Czech Republic, Italy, Lituanua, Poland, Japan, Norway, New Zealand, Portugal, and Romania are all fighting this war too. There are 33 named countries participating in the war. It is a worldwide effort, but you people fail to see that You guys are so quick to point the finger at George Bush. Didnt the Untited States Conress VOTE to go to Iraq? why yes I beleive they did. So shut the **** up about America being corrupt, and having hidden agendas.


hahahah

Come on man...America started this war on terror because of a false flag terror attack.

9/11 was the justification for this war on "terror". Unfortunatly it was an act of Goverment.

The whole war is bullshit and based on a lie.

Do some research about 9/11 and you will find that it wasnt terrorists...it was a false flag attack.

But you just keep believing what you hear on TV and you will have an amazing blissful life.

Ignorance is Bliss my friend. Enjoy it while it lasts!

NaChOmAmA


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

NaChOmAmA said:


> hahahah
> 
> Come on man...America started this war on terror because of a false flag terror attack.
> 
> ...



haha look at my quote!! :laugh: i have been saying that since i got on this fourm


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

NaChOmAmA said:


> hahahah
> 
> Come on man...America started this war on terror because of a false flag terror attack.
> 
> ...


Wow man, you are a cold hearted mother ****er. If you truly beleive that the Untied States government was behind September 11th, you have crossed into a deminsion of stupidity.

I am done talking with you fools. I hope you and Daman both have a family member killed by a terrorsit attack, then maybe you will understand. 

To the rest of the forum, I apologize for my remarks and foul language, I hope all the decent people on the forum will not hold this against me, but I simply cannot control myself when some one starts taking cheap shots at innocent dead Americans. Someone please ban these two.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

*This is the problem!*

See this is how your media works, im not a reporter, but i do understand english. (i might not write like i do but i can read whats being said)

"...all estimate that Saddam Hussein's regime murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people...."

see that, its taken right from one of your web pages. the KEY word in that phrase is ....... ESTIMATE, it's a funny word, because it can be inturpeted as 2 ways.

one that you see it as, all of these killings are "ESTIMATED" to be at XXX amount.

But the way its written is, we ESTIMATE that these deaths are done by saddam hussein. Good thing that a NEWS station doesn't have the facts, and are just estimating that they are done by Hussein.

and i bet i can find a lot more in each one of thoes web pages. and we have looped back around to what i said way back at the beginning

DO YOUR RESEARCH!


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Wow man, you are a cold hearted mother ****er. If you truly beleive that the Untied States government was behind September 11th, you have crossed into a deminsion of stupidity.
> 
> I am done talking with you fools. I hope you and Daman both have a family member killed by a terrorsit attack, then maybe you will understand.
> 
> To the rest of the forum, I apologize for my remarks and foul language, I hope all the decent people on the forum will not hold this against me, but I simply cannot control myself when some one starts taking cheap shots at innocent dead Americans. Someone please ban these two.


Well, i know you are ignoring me, but it doesn't matter. If i had someone die by a terrorist attack, i would want to know who did it!! to avenge them!! not believe what i was told and start killing more people.

why was there a poll done in NY saying that 56% of the people of NY think that there was a political ploy done by the US government.

i think thats proof right there. but you dont like proof....

why are there so many people disagreeing with you? and agree with me?

MUHAHAH MORE FACTS COMMIN AT YA!


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

and this moron calls nachomama cold hearted. hahahah YOUR COUNTRY is killing MORE PEOPLE

HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE TO DIE FOR YOU TO RELIZE THAT ITS ENOUGH!!

9/11 - 3000 people 
Iraq - 600,000+ people

and thoes are justified?

ya, thats cold hearted

If anyone wants to see another side of the coin, check out this Vid
TerrorStorm (Alex Jones) - Google Video


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Wow man, you are a cold hearted mother ****er. If you truly beleive that the Untied States government was behind September 11th, you have crossed into a deminsion of stupidity.
> 
> I am done talking with you fools. I hope you and Daman both have a family member killed by a terrorsit attack, then maybe you will understand.
> 
> To the rest of the forum, I apologize for my remarks and foul language, I hope all the decent people on the forum will not hold this against me, but I simply cannot control myself when some one starts taking cheap shots at innocent dead Americans. Someone please ban these two.


Im not cold hearted...im just informed.

Go to google video and watch the documentary "Loose Change"

It will open your eyes about what actually happened on September 11th. Please watch it. You will not regret it. It will open your eyes to the corruption that exists in America *yes i know its not only america...the most corrupt place on earth is England...millions and millions of cameras everywhere is ****ed*

Just watch it and you will see...too much evidence to ignor...do not believe what your media is telling you. You are being told the official government story...and we all know the media is not looking out for your best interest.

Let me remind you of the official government story about what happened to JFK...the magic bullet...1 bullet SOME HOW mysteriously entered and re entered the president numerous times. HOW THE HELL CAN ANYONE BELIEVE THAT!??!?!?! So what exactly happened? The bullet turned around for another taste of JFK? Believe me man...watch that documentary, its free and very informative. I thought 9/11 was terrorists until I was shown this documtary too. Just watch it...

NaChOmAmA


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Well, i know you are ignoring me, but it doesn't matter. If i had someone die by a terrorist attack, i would want to know who did it!! to avenge them!! not believe what i was told and start killing more people.
> 
> why was there a poll done in NY saying that 56% of the people of NY think that there was a political ploy done by the US government.
> 
> ...



Thats not any proof, and you have listed no facts


----------



## The MuscleShark (Nov 3, 2006)

daman5 said:


> and this moron calls nachomama cold hearted. hahahah YOUR COUNTRY is killing MORE PEOPLE
> 
> HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE TO DIE FOR YOU TO RELIZE THAT ITS ENOUGH!!
> 
> ...


Man shut up seriously, your always trying to be right...you can't always go by what you read....so you dont know shit


----------



## Cbingham (Jun 13, 2006)

NaChOmAmA said:


> Im not cold hearted...im just informed.
> 
> Go to google video and watch the documentary "Loose Change"
> 
> ...


Hate Propoganda is not being informed bro, you are sick in the head


----------



## The MuscleShark (Nov 3, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Hate Propoganda is not being informed bro, you are sick in the head


They are both retards.....they read something and think it is the truth right away and go off on it before knowing all the facts


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Hate Propoganda is not being informed bro, you are sick in the head


Its not hate propaganda man...you are just brainwashed into thinking everything that isnt the official story is hate propaganda

OPEN YOUR ****ING MIND MAN...

Anyways...I think Daman and I have proven our points but you guys are repeating the same shit over and over again...

Regurgitating the official story back at us and calling us idiots for looking past what has been fed to us all.

I dont have any use for arguing with people who are stubborn and wont believe fact...just what they are being told.

NaChOmAmA


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

The MuscleShark said:


> Man shut up seriously, your always trying to be right...you can't always go by what you read....so you dont know shit


dude, i dont go by what i read. I look at numbers, i look at more than just 1 thing, like american news... 

and if i only looked at 1 thing, id be left to my opinion that AFGANS went into and dropped the WTC's and not IRAQIES!!!!!!!!

common now, why the hell are they still in iraq? they didn't even to anything to america.

Just because Bush Sr. lost doesn't mean that Bush Jr can go in and finish the job. AAHHHH these are people we are talking about, not animals!

call me uninformed, i look at history i can see, and facts i can find to come up with my judgement, i dont listen to "news" because theres so much spin on it its retarded!


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

Cbingham said:


> Hate Propoganda is not being informed bro, you are sick in the head


lol why do you call this conspirators too, who think everything is evil.

how about you keep labelling us, and proving the point even more.

American's like catch phrases, they don't like long sentances because they find it boring. So, to say they are terrorists is just a small work that can be caught in their heads so that they dont have to think about anything anymore.


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

I have to agree yet again with Daman

Ive read/scene/heard many sides of the story. And there just isnt enough evidence that points to Bin Laden besides the American news saying IT WAS HIM! HES A TERRORIST! LETS GET EM BOYS!

Watch the documentary...it has numbers and facts and many things to talk about...and im sure you havent watched it before calling it hate propoganda...because its about an hour and a half long...and you replied in like 5 minutes.

Watch something before you judge it.

NaChOmAmA


----------



## The MuscleShark (Nov 3, 2006)

daman5 said:


> dude, i dont go by what i read. I look at numbers, i look at more than just 1 thing, like american news...
> 
> and if i only looked at 1 thing, id be left to my opinion that AFGANS went into and dropped the WTC's and not IRAQIES!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


lol great defense once again well this is an MMa site so why dont you catch up on your reading about that.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

The MuscleShark said:


> lol great defense once again well this is an MMa site so why dont you catch up on your reading about that.


lol dont you worry what i keep up on, hehe i have tried to respond to everything that has been posted to me, this thread is just the most active right now.


----------



## The MuscleShark (Nov 3, 2006)

NaChOmAmA said:


> I have to agree yet again with Daman
> 
> Ive read/scene/heard many sides of the story. And there just isnt enough evidence that points to Bin Laden besides the American news saying IT WAS HIM! HES A TERRORIST! LETS GET EM BOYS!
> 
> ...


I have seen the Documentary bro, and like I said it's probably not the whole story.....anyways this is an MMA site I could care less about politics, sucks for sure about what is going on......Maybe you and Daman5 should exchange numbers and discuss this among yourselfs or go to a politics discussion I dunno. Stick to MMA and Daman5 well you need to just not speak anymore.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

The MuscleShark said:


> lol great defense once again well this is an MMa site so why dont you catch up on your reading about that.


and believe it or not, i have a lot of background in fighting, and wrestling, and i have seen a lot of PPV events in many different leagues. But just because my opinion isn't the same as everyone elses, doesn't make me wrong just makes me more vocal/"textal" lol, cuz im not really sitting here yelling at my screen.... im actually playing poker, responding to you all, and listening to some music.

hehe i am a regular person just like everyone else on this fourm. just bcause i dont have my "blinders" on and i can see past the "im right and your wrong" mentality doesn't mean i have to be hated.

this is going to sound gay, but i love people, they are intressting, have a difference of opinion and the more people you know the more fun you have. But the less people there are in the world, the less fun we all have. So im very vocal when it comes to people dying.

and well if you look at my new thread that i started about a debate you will see my whole problem with people responding to my post, because they dont provide enough information.


----------



## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

Hey do you guys know any good world politics forums?
Why don't you go there and debate it?
All the anti this and anti that crap is stupid. For any of us to say that we know what is really the truth is ignorance. The truth is a very illusive animal and unfortunately we can't see it. All we can do is see a small peice here and there.
Oh yeah and get off my country! We are doing the best we can. Did ya know Canada has troops fighting around the world right beside us too?


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> lol dont you worry what i keep up on, hehe i have tried to respond to everything that has been posted to me, this thread is just the most active right now.



Yeah and that’s your problem, you will try to respond even if you have to make something up or just not make any sense. For example look at the last exchange between the two of us. I showed you a picture that shows how much damage Tito did with GnP when he fought Forest and you said that it proves he is LnP. Yes it looks like he is just laying there, it also looks like Forest is just laying there because it was a STILL PICTURE. The point was to look at Forest face and all of the damage Tito did effectively using GnP but you took that and yet again ran into your fantasy world.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> Hey do you guys know any good world politics forums?
> Why don't you go there and debate it?
> All the anti this and anti that crap is stupid. For any of us to say that we know what is really the truth is ignorance. The truth is a very illusive animal and unfortunately we can't see it. All we can do is see a small peice here and there.
> Oh yeah and get off my country! We are doing the best we can. Did ya know Canada has troops fighting around the world right beside us too?


Yes, thats apart of our plan!  build a small relationship with you, and after you got bush out of there, you will see out "leader" kicked out of office. heheh

Canadians run this country, no our politicians

 its why its a great country.


----------



## The MuscleShark (Nov 3, 2006)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> Hey do you guys know any good world politics forums?
> Why don't you go there and debate it?
> All the anti this and anti that crap is stupid. For any of us to say that we know what is really the truth is ignorance. The truth is a very illusive animal and unfortunately we can't see it. All we can do is see a small peice here and there.
> Oh yeah and get off my country! We are doing the best we can. Did ya know Canada has troops fighting around the world right beside us too?


Exactly what i said before go find another forum to talk about Politics


----------



## The MuscleShark (Nov 3, 2006)

daman5 said:


> and believe it or not, i have a lot of background in fighting, and wrestling, and i have seen a lot of PPV events in many different leagues. But just because my opinion isn't the same as everyone elses, doesn't make me wrong just makes me more vocal/"textal" lol, cuz im not really sitting here yelling at my screen.... im actually playing poker, responding to you all, and listening to some music.
> 
> hehe i am a regular person just like everyone else on this fourm. just bcause i dont have my "blinders" on and i can see past the "im right and your wrong" mentality doesn't mean i have to be hated.
> 
> ...



I dont hate anyone but when someone is posting ridiculous comment im going to tell them straight up......your one of those people that wont stop until you are right and you are going to be attacked on it until you stop.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Yeah and that’s your problem, you will try to respond even if you have to make something up or just not make any sense. For example look at the last exchange between the two of us. I showed you a picture that shows how much damage Tito did with GnP when he fought Forest and you said that it proves he is LnP. Yes it looks like he is just laying there, it also looks like Forest is just laying there because it was a STILL PICTURE. The point was to look at Forest face and all of the damage Tito did effectively using GnP but you took that and yet again ran into your fantasy world.


Dude that pic shows Tito laying in his gaurd, and he has on his face. If you look at the end of the fight Forrest wanted to keep going, which would have decided the fight, because Tito would have lost to him if they went any more rounds. Tito tried his hardest to take him out, and anything he did forrest just took it like a man and wanted more because Tito didn't do much to him.

Sorry, thats in "fantasy" it's fact. So if i live in a "fantasy" which provides facts, number, statements and other articles, and you live in "reality" where only your word is right................... i think you need a reality check.

here is the photo:
Tito Ortiz (camo trunks) vs. Forrest Griffin


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

This forum is about MMA so I guess I will get back on topic out of the respect for this forum and the sport of MMA.

I just want everyone to know that I just want all corruption and useless death to stop. War is not the answer. Its a money maker.

So now I will continue bashing Tito Ortiz! haha :cheeky4: 

It was enjoyable debating about world issues though!

Ok this thread is now officially too long and off topic!

Close it!

NaChOmAmA


----------



## The MuscleShark (Nov 3, 2006)

NaChOmAmA said:


> This forum is about MMA so I guess I will get back on topic out of the respect for this forum and the sport of MMA.
> 
> I just want everyone to know that I just want all corruption and useless death to stop. War is not the answer. Its a money maker.
> 
> ...


thank you


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

Not a problem man! 

Im not angry or anything. I just like debating about world issues and when it came up...I let loose! haha

I love MMA a lot too! So I am sure I will see you on another thread about MMA!

NaChOmAmA


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Dude that pic shows Tito laying in his gaurd, and he has on his face. If you look at the end of the fight Forrest wanted to keep going, which would have decided the fight, because Tito would have lost to him if they went any more rounds. Tito tried his hardest to take him out, and anything he did forrest just took it like a man and wanted more because Tito didn't do much to him.
> 
> Sorry, thats in "fantasy" it's fact. So if i live in a "fantasy" which provides facts, number, statements and other articles, and you live in "reality" where only your word is right................... i think you need a reality check.
> 
> ...



The reason I chose that picture is because it showed the damage on Forest face, there are plenty of other showing Tito pounding him. In a fight no one just constantly throws punches buddy, every now and then the fighters are not going to engage each other. It’s a lot easier to jump around like that with no one on you, if Forest was so fresh why didn’t he use that energy to stop the fight in the 3rd? And Forest did even less damage which is why Tito didn’t have a scratch on him and Forest had two bloody black eyes. When Forest did land a good shot right to Tito’s face he would just throw his hands up showing he wanted more so you have nothing there either. You don’t use facts about MMA, you use lies and think that makes you right which is why I keep saying you are in a fantasy world.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> The reason I chose that picture is because it showed the damage on Forest face, there are plenty of other showing Tito pounding him. In a fight no one just constantly throws punches buddy, every now and then the fighters are not going to engage each other. It’s a lot easier to jump around like that with no one on you, if Forest was so fresh why didn’t he use that energy to stop the fight in the 3rd? And Forest did even less damage which is why Tito didn’t have a scratch on him and Forest had two bloody black eyes. When Forest did land a good shot right to Tito’s face he would just throw his hands up showing he wanted more so you have nothing there either. You don’t use facts about MMA, you use lies and think that makes you right which is why I keep saying you are in a fantasy world.


Wow, you are finally starting a debate :thumbsup: 

Well, if you look at this picture and ONLY this pic, you dont see tito's face (yes we know tito won the fight so dont say tito wasn't even hurt because we know that) so debating just this pic, isn't a good rep. of the fight. But if you look at Tito's position, yes he's on the top, but he is located at the top of his chest, so tito's fists wont hurt at all, because theres not a lot of power that he can throw because he so high up on his chests...

which only leave 2 options for Tito in that pick... Hammer Fists, and Elbows...... which i have said a long time ago that its all that Tito does. Thats the whole thing, it's boring to watch him fight beacuse this is Titos signature move... (or he slowly moves them to the fence and tries to stack them up) and its boring and cheap to do...

so, thanks for making me restate EVERYTHING i have been saying before hand.. but now i have a pic to back me up.


----------



## The MuscleShark (Nov 3, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Wow, you are finally starting a debate :thumbsup:
> 
> Well, if you look at this picture and ONLY this pic, you dont see tito's face (yes we know tito won the fight so dont say tito wasn't even hurt because we know that) so debating just this pic, isn't a good rep. of the fight. But if you look at Tito's position, yes he's on the top, but he is located at the top of his chest, so tito's fists wont hurt at all, because theres not a lot of power that he can throw because he so high up on his chests...
> 
> ...


NO sense in debating with a moron though...TLB dont waste your time with Daman5 aka Da Women5


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Wow, you are finally starting a debate :thumbsup:
> 
> Well, if you look at this picture and ONLY this pic, you dont see tito's face (yes we know tito won the fight so dont say tito wasn't even hurt because we know that) so debating just this pic, isn't a good rep. of the fight. But if you look at Tito's position, yes he's on the top, but he is located at the top of his chest, so tito's fists wont hurt at all, because theres not a lot of power that he can throw because he so high up on his chests...
> 
> ...


No, you would need a video to prove what you are saying, just a picture wouldn’t do that. That picture proves that Tito can do a lot of damage effectively using GnP, which is what I have been saying. He doesn’t need to use his fists because his elbows do more damage, which is why he uses elbow, so I really don’t even know why you brought up that he couldn’t do anything with his fists.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

The MuscleShark said:


> NO sense in debating with a moron though...TLB dont waste your time with Daman5 aka Da Women5


lol, logical, smart and quick witted.... :laugh: just because you dont like what i have to say doesn't means it wrong, if you look at the photo you will see that EVERYTHING i have said about it.. is correct.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

The MuscleShark said:


> NO sense in debating with a moron though...TLB dont waste your time with Daman5 aka Da Women5



I know man, I should take your advice but I just can’t help myself.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> lol, logical, smart and quick witted.... :laugh: just because you dont like what i have to say doesn't means it wrong, if you look at the photo you will see that EVERYTHING i have said about it.. is correct.



No, It's not at all.


----------



## The MuscleShark (Nov 3, 2006)

TLB said:


> I know man, I should take your advice but I just can’t help myself.


I know same here...the guy is unbeleivable and makes my day here at work go by faster.......I laugh out loud some many times because of his comments.

GO for it im here listen duke it out with him...i'll help out


----------



## The MuscleShark (Nov 3, 2006)

daman5 said:


> lol, logical, smart and quick witted.... :laugh: just because you dont like what i have to say doesn't means it wrong, if you look at the photo you will see that EVERYTHING i have said about it.. is correct.


Your WRONG


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> No, you would need a video to prove what you are saying, just a picture wouldn’t do that. That picture proves that Tito can do a lot of damage effectively using GnP, which is what I have been saying. He doesn’t need to use his fists because his elbows do more damage, which is why he uses elbow, so I really don’t even know why you brought up that he couldn’t do anything with his fists.


IN THAT PIC MORON, hes too far up on his chect to use his fists effectivly.

and THATS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING THE WHOLE TIME, he only has 2 moves, a hammer fists, and elbows.

i never once said they dont inflict damnage, and i never once said it was not a good way to win........

but THIS whole THREAD is about the cheapest move.... and only using HAMMER FISTS/ELBOWS is gay, and its not a GnPer, because only having 2 moves in your arsenal doesnt make you a specialist

AND THATS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING FOREVER!!! but this dude seems to him that tito is the greats GnPer alive with his 2 moves (effective, yes, well rounded and diverse, no.)


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

The MuscleShark said:


> I know same here...the guy is unbeleivable and makes my day here at work go by faster.......I laugh out loud some many times because of his comments.
> 
> GO for it im here listen duke it out with him...i'll help out



Haha, I know, it’s so easy to pick his post apart because he doesn’t know what he is talking about. Then to read his signature is hilarious, if a mod read this entire thread they would probably make him change it.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

The MuscleShark said:


> Your WRONG


when what have i said that was "WRONG"

is tito up far on his chest? (Yup)

Does that photo give a good represintation of tito's face? (nope)

Will Tito thorw a hammer fist, or an elbow in his next move? (i can't be sure, but theres a VERY good chance because he so far up on his chest)


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Haha, I know, it’s so easy to pick his post apart because he doesn’t know what he is talking about. Then to read his signature is hilarious, if a mod read this entire thread they would probably make him change it.


You are just afraid that to admit that maybe i might have something right to say about Tito. You might not like it, but you cant refute it, because that pic you posted just makes my statement more correct.


----------



## The MuscleShark (Nov 3, 2006)

daman5 said:


> when what have i said that was "WRONG"
> 
> is tito up far on his chest? (Yup)
> 
> ...



YOu know everything dont you..........lol


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

The MuscleShark said:


> YOu know everything dont you..........lol



nope, but i do know tito isn't a well rounded fighter


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> IN THAT PIC MORON, hes too far up on his chect to use his fists effectivly.
> 
> and THATS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING THE WHOLE TIME, he only has 2 moves, a hammer fists, and elbows.
> 
> ...



Ok, I think you are starting to realize you are wrong and that is why you are mad. Again, why did you even bring up that he couldn’t use his fists, that isn’t even relevant. We all know he plans to use elbow more than anything else, and he uses them very effectively which is why he is so good at GnP. You just said a couple of post ago that he “Forest wanted to keep going because Tito really didn’t do that much damage”. But now you try and tell me you never said that? Haha! Elbows, hammer fist, and punches from the guard effectively and that doesn’t make him a GnPer. Dude, you don’t make any sense!


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> when what have i said that was "WRONG"
> 
> is tito up far on his chest? (Yup)
> 
> ...



What point are you trying to make? So what if he threw an elbow right after that picture, and the point of it was to show the damage on Forest face, not Tito’s. Do you not remember that the purpose of that picture was to show that Tito does damage with GnP?


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> You are just afraid that to admit that maybe i might have something right to say about Tito. You might not like it, but you cant refute it, because that pic you posted just makes my statement more correct.



No, I’m not because you don’t have anything to say that is correct! That picture shows how much damage Tito did using GnP, it doesn’t help you out at all. I don’t understand why that is so hard for you to grasp.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> nope, but i do know tito isn't a well rounded fighter


Again, you show you don’t know what you’re talking about. Tito Ortiz, Chuck Liddell, Matt Hughes are all well rounded fighters but they stick to the same game plan because that is the most effective for them to win. If they weren’t well rounded they wouldn’t be at the level they’ve reached.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Ok, I think you are starting to realize you are wrong and that is why you are mad. Again, why did you even bring up that he couldn’t use his fists, that isn’t even relevant. We all know he plans to use elbow more than anything else, and he uses them very effectively which is why he is so good at GnP. You just said a couple of post ago that he “Forest wanted to keep going because Tito really didn’t do that much damage”. But now you try and tell me you never said that? Haha! Elbows, hammer fist, and punches from the guard effectively and that doesn’t make him a GnPer. Dude, you don’t make any sense!


Wow, Wow.

I said at the end of the fight forrest wanted to keep going...... (thats true if you seen the fight)

I using his fists for that pick isn't going to be effective at all... (which is true)

so it only leave his elbows and hammer fist .. (which is true)

and i said thats all Tito does... (which is true)

I never said tito wasn't effective in the gaurd (because i know he is)

But, to say he a specialist is outlandish, because to be a specialist, you have to have more then just laying in the gaurd and looking busy. Theres no way in that pic that Tito will be able to get full mount, or even side mount.... where as good GnPers try to do.. where Tito doesn't even try to do that most of the time, and if he does.. he will lay on the upper part of his body and drop little Tito elbows

This is why i keep saying tito isn't a GnPer specialist, hes a lay and gayer because when you watch his fight he just keeps it busy.

(and to prove my point even more, in the last 5+ years, Tito has only TKO'd Ken Shamrock. thats it, no one else, no body, and in his 4 winning decisions, 2 of them were splits.)

so.... how is that a GnP specialist?

To be a specialist, you move into different gaurds to try and get a mount, and Tito Rarely gets mounts, he only stacks against the fence.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Again, you show you don’t know what you’re talking about. Tito Ortiz, Chuck Liddell, Matt Hughes are all well rounded fighters but they stick to the same game plan because that is the most effective for them to win. If they weren’t well rounded they wouldn’t be at the level they’ve reached.


Dude, they really only have a wrestling backgound, how is that well rounded?


----------



## herton17 (Sep 13, 2006)

Sean Sherk worked so much on his boxing and Kenflo said he is just a GnP guy regardless of how good he gets at boxing. And he was right. These guys may be well rounded but as TLB said, they will use what suites them best in the fight, their forte. A guy like Mark Hunt is not well rounded, the previously mentioned three are...


----------



## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

Daman5,
Do you fight?


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Wow, Wow.
> 
> I said at the end of the fight forrest wanted to keep going...... (thats true if you seen the fight)
> 
> ...



Well the fight was over and Tito won so it really doesn’t matter that Forest was jumping around after the fight. It also doesn’t matter that he couldn’t use his fist effectively in that picture because he could and did use his elbow effectively. What you obviously fail to understand is Tito isn’t like most GnPers that have to get side mount or full mount to do damage. He is one of the only fighters in the world that can pound the hell out of some one from the guard so that is what he does. He does NOT just lay there, he stays busy and beats the hell out of people. So no you don’t have to move to different guards to be a specialist. HE IS ABLE TO DO IT FROM FULL GUARD. Again why do you keep bringing up how many people he has knocked out? You don’t have to knock some one out in every fight to effectively use GnP. Again Matt Hughes is a GnPer and he doesn’t have a lot of KO’s and you earlier said that Dan Seven was a true GnPer but he hasn’t even KO’d many people with GnP at all.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> Daman5,
> Do you fight?



Never in MMA no, but wrestling and sparing matches when i was in karate.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Dude, they really only have a wrestling backgound, how is that well rounded?


Are you ****ing serious? Yes they all have wrestling backgrounds but now they are all well rounded professional mixed martial artist dumbass.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Well the fight was over and Tito won so it really doesn’t matter that Forest was jumping around after the fight. It also doesn’t matter that he couldn’t use his fist effectively in that picture because he could and did use his elbow effectively. What you obviously fail to understand is Tito isn’t like most GnPers that have to get side mount or full mount to do damage. He is one of the only fighters in the world that can pound the hell out of some one from the guard so that is what he does. He does NOT just lay there, he stays busy and beats the hell out of people. So no you don’t have to move to different guards to be a specialist. HE IS ABLE TO DO IT FROM FULL GUARD. Again why do you keep bringing up how many people he has knocked out? You don’t have to knock some one out in every fight to effectively use GnP. Again Matt Hughes is a GnPer and he doesn’t have a lot of KO’s and you earlier said that Dan Seven was a true GnPer but he hasn’t even KO’d many people with GnP at all.


No, but to be an effective GnPer, you have to use a diverse arsnal, where Tito only does that ONE thing, it wins him matches yes, but its boring to watch, and he just uses his power to keep the fighter in the gaurd... which is gay.. i never said id doesn't work... i just said its cheap


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Are you ****ing serious? Yes they all have wrestling backgrounds but now they are all well rounded professional mixed martial artist dumbass.


lol see how much you know, MMA isn't a fighting style, its an organization. You can't be a mixed martial artist, because if you were that means you know EVERY fighting style and have mastered them all..........

well rounded is having more belts then just 1 fighting style, hence MIXED MARTIAL ARTS.

yes given that MMA is because everyone is fighting from everyone style, but if you knew more it would make you more well rounded.


----------



## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

I think it looks alot easier to those who don't do it. I fight. I know when your in someones guard it takes alot of energy to pass. The reason for passing is to be able to strike, whether that be knuckle, hammer, back hand, elbow...
If you can accomplish this from inside the guard then why pass?
I once choked a guy out in a BJJ tourney from his guard. Is that cheap?
I think Tito does well, he uses his tools to win and that's the name of the game. Right?
I also think that the arguement here is about the definition of GnP.
GnP IMO istaking a guy down and pummeling him. I don't see it as cheap if it's not done from the full mount position.


----------



## herton17 (Sep 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> MMA isn't a fighting style, its an organization.


Are you sure?


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

herton17 said:


> Are you sure?


100% (well not an organization, its like saying baseball is an organization, where theres different leagues with in the baseball category)

but its not a fighting style


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> lol see how much you know, MMA isn't a fighting style, its an organization. You can't be a mixed martial artist, because if you were that means you know EVERY fighting style and have mastered them all..........
> 
> well rounded is having more belts then just 1 fighting style, hence MIXED MARTIAL ARTS.
> 
> yes given that MMA is because everyone is fighting from everyone style, but if you knew more it would make you more well rounded.


Hahahahah, you just exposed yourself again for being a complete dumbass who has NO IDEA WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT. I never said MMA was a fighting style, I said the three guys I named were mixed martial artist, because that is exactly what they are. “Its an organization”, what are you talking about? No it doesn’t mean they know every style, it means they know several different styles which they all do.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Hahahahah, you just exposed yourself again for being a complete dumbass who has NO IDEA WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT. I never said MMA was a fighting style, I said the three guys I named were mixed martial artist, because that is exactly what they are. “Its an organization”, what are you talking about? No it doesn’t mean they know every style, it means they know several different styles which they all do.


hahaha then what does Tito have for Styles?


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> I think it looks alot easier to those who don't do it. I fight. I know when your in someones guard it takes alot of energy to pass. The reason for passing is to be able to strike, whether that be knuckle, hammer, back hand, elbow...
> If you can accomplish this from inside the guard then why pass?
> I once choked a guy out in a BJJ tourney from his guard. Is that cheap?
> I think Tito does well, he uses his tools to win and that's the name of the game. Right?
> ...


:thumbsup:


----------



## herton17 (Sep 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> 100% (well not an organization, its like saying baseball is an organization, where theres different leagues with in the baseball category)
> 
> but its not a fighting style


So it is 100%...but it's not? At the same time?


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> I think it looks alot easier to those who don't do it. I fight. I know when your in someones guard it takes alot of energy to pass. The reason for passing is to be able to strike, whether that be knuckle, hammer, back hand, elbow...
> If you can accomplish this from inside the guard then why pass?
> I once choked a guy out in a BJJ tourney from his guard. Is that cheap?
> I think Tito does well, he uses his tools to win and that's the name of the game. Right?
> ...


Ya man, using your tools is apart of the sport, use what you are good at. But lets say you had a completely open weight class, and a huge fat guy sat on you, and just dropped his hands on you to keep busy so it doesn't get stood up, would you not think that is gay.

(i know tito is FAR from fat, but he powerful and he uses that to hold down his opposition and look busy.)

The real argument for me, is this guy thinks that Tito is an expert on the ground. When im syaing Tito is just tries to keep busy to get the win.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> hahaha then what does Tito have for Styles?


Jui Jitsu, Kickboxing and wrestling, I’m happy to educate you once again. Perhaps more than that but those are the three I know of for sure. You see he combines those three to be an effective mixed martial artist, I know that is a hard thing for you to grasp. Go to a local MMA school, if you have one and they will most likely teach those three things to fight MMA. The one in my home town does.


----------



## j.farrell (Oct 6, 2006)

you guys better stop arguing, or you are gonna get one of these..


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

herton17 said:


> So it is 100%...but it's not? At the same time?


lol, well i didn't want you to come back at me and make me clairify what i ment by an organization...

but yes .. its 100% (if you look at an organization as a group of people, and not as a company trying to make money)


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

j.farrell said:


> you guys better stop arguing, or you are gonna get one of these..



lol:laugh: i love that pic man, it makes me laugh everytime.


----------



## j.farrell (Oct 6, 2006)

j.farrell said:


> you guys better stop arguing, or you are gonna get one of these..


just in case you were wondering thats me in the terry cloth..thats how i roll..that guy never touched my boombox again.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

j.farrell said:


> you guys better stop arguing, or you are gonna get one of these..



lol, i just looked at it, are you in a bath robe??? lol


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Ya man, using your tools is apart of the sport, use what you are good at. But lets say you had a completely open weight class, and a huge fat guy sat on you, and just dropped his hands on you to keep busy so it doesn't get stood up, would you not think that is gay.
> 
> (i know tito is FAR from fat, but he powerful and he uses that to hold down his opposition and look busy.)
> 
> The real argument for me, is this guy thinks that Tito is an expert on the ground. When im syaing Tito is just tries to keep busy to get the win.


He uses his strength to hold them down and looks busy because he is pounding the hell out of them! Yes he is an expert on the ground, you are clueless!


----------



## herton17 (Sep 13, 2006)

When I read that I actually said "Shut Up!" out loud and started laughing. My brother was looking at me like I fell of Mars or something. Funny shit man.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> He uses his strength to hold them down and looks busy because he is pounding the hell out of them! Yes he is an expert on the ground, you are clueless!


lol, dude, and expert has more then 1 thing. I'm clueless, you dont even know what an expert is


----------



## NaChOmAmA (Oct 27, 2006)

TLB said:


> Again, you show you don’t know what you’re talking about. Tito Ortiz, Chuck Liddell, Matt Hughes are all well rounded fighters but they stick to the same game plan because that is the most effective for them to win. If they weren’t well rounded they wouldn’t be at the level they’ve reached.



Actually

well rounded means they can fight anywhere

Chuck can only fight standing...as was shown by his looses against randy the first time, and Jeremy horn the first time.

Tito cant box to save his life and we will see that once again against Liddell soon.

Hughes is similar to tito and can only try and GnP

Matt hughes has to take you down or he looses
Tito has to take you down or he looses
Chuck has to keep you on your feet or he looses

Well rounded means they dont care

Jeremy horn is well rounded
Anderson silva is well rounded
Fedor is well rounded
AA is well rounded

I like Chuck because he knocks people out and finishes his fights
Tito does not as shown by his record...he usually does not finish...and thats why I dont like him and find him cheap and useless as a fighter. 

NaChOmAmA


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

herton17 said:


> When I read that I actually said "Shut Up!" out loud and started laughing. My brother was looking at me like I fell of Mars or something. Funny shit man.


lol, im not sure who you are talking too, but if it was me, im glad i could get a chuckly out of ya, life is supposed to be about having fun.


----------



## j.farrell (Oct 6, 2006)

thats it its the vulcan nerve pinch for alla yas...


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

NaChOmAmA said:


> Actually
> 
> well rounded means they can fight anywhere
> 
> ...


Well put, well put.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

j.farrell said:


> thats it its the vulcan nerve pinch for alla yas...


:thumbsdown: :laugh: :cheeky4:  

take all of that!


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> lol, dude, and expert has more then 1 thing. I'm clueless, you dont even know what an expert is



I already listed all of the things he trains, again any fighter is going to use which ever tool is most effective for them. you are with out a doubt the most clueless person I have ever come across.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

NaChOmAmA said:


> Actually
> 
> well rounded means they can fight anywhere
> 
> ...


The problem though, is that Tito only sits in the gaurd, where as Matt will try and gain a good mount position, which makes him a great ground specialist, but Tito is cheap and just keeps busy.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> I already listed all of the things he trains, again any fighter is going to use which ever tool is most effective for them. you are with out a doubt the most clueless person I have ever come across.


I must have missed it, please restat it for the people who are watch this debate.

there are a lot of poeple here, common what does he train in?


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> The problem though, is that Tito only sits in the gaurd, where as Matt will try and gain a good mount position, which makes him a great ground specialist, but Tito is cheap and just keeps busy.



How many times do I have to explain the same thing to you over and over? Tito doesn’t have to switch positions because he can effectively pound some one from the guard, although he does sometimes switch to side mount, there is really no need for him to do so. BECAUSE HE CAN GET THE JOB DONE FROM FULL GUARD! I know it is very hard for you to grasp very simple things but you are never going to learn if you don’t at least try.


----------



## herton17 (Sep 13, 2006)

daman5 said:


> lol, im not sure who you are talking too, but if it was me, im glad i could get a chuckly out of ya, life is supposed to be about having fun.


It wasnt you...but thanks for that comment anyway. You re absolutely right.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> How many times do I have to explain the same thing to you over and over? Tito doesn’t have to switch positions because he can effectively pound some one from the guard, although he does sometimes switch to side mount, there is really no need for him to do so. BECAUSE HE CAN GET THE JOB DONE FROM FULL GUARD! I know it is very hard for you to grasp very simple things but you are never going to learn if you don’t at least try.


Still waiting for what he trains in.....


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> I must have missed it, please restat it for the people who are watch this debate.
> 
> there are a lot of poeple here, common what does he train in?


JJ, kickboxing and wrestling. It may be more than that but those three I am sure of.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> JJ, kickboxing and wrestling. It may be more than that but those three I am sure of.


AHAH Tito is useless stand up, so i doubt hes good at kick boxing with the huge legs he has.

JJ, i hardly see tito tossing people around with proper hip tosses that JJ offers, wrestling, your right hes decent at his shoot.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Still waiting for what he trains in.....


I post while I’m at work, so there may be more important things going on than replying to you. But I’ll get to it eventually.


----------



## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

TLB said:


> JJ, kickboxing and wrestling. It may be more than that but those three I am sure of.


 and Mui Thai


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> AHAH Tito is useless stand up, so i doubt hes good at kick boxing with the huge legs he has.
> 
> JJ, i hardly see tito tossing people around with proper hip tosses that JJ offers, wrestling, your right hes decent at his shoot.


Well that’s because you’re a complete idiot.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> I post while I’m at work, so there may be more important things going on than replying to you. But I’ll get to it eventually.



lol sorry, if your busy i can wait, i have a long weekend this weekend.. hehe so i have time to kill until my gf gets off of work.

but theres no rush.. id wouldn't want you to get in touble over a fourm.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> and Mui Thai


I don't know how I forgot that one, thanks.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> lol sorry, if your busy i can wait, i have a long weekend this weekend.. hehe so i have time to kill until my gf gets off of work.
> 
> but theres no rush.. id wouldn't want you to get in touble over a fourm.


Well in that case, thank you for you patience.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Well that’s because you’re a complete idiot.


NICE REBUTTLE!! wow, you just might have nothing else to say.. making up tito's fight styles, and saying hes a great GnPer


lol, i think you might be loosing this debate, well to be honest i dont think you ever won, HAHAHA.

you didn't really have a chance, it's not your fault Tito isn't really that good but when hes in someones gaurd.


----------



## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

Actually Tito isn't just keeping busy...I'm sure he would like to finish all of his fights by sub or KO.
Cheap is a really crappy descriptor to use for a guy like that. He's a hard worker with mucho talent man. Give the guy some props.
I only wish I could do the things he does.
I'd rather watch Tito and Ken fight again than see Tim Sylvia and Andrea dance around for 25 min.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> and Mui Thai


Have you ever seen someone in a clich from Tito, eating his big knees?

ahahahha i think id fall over laughing if that were to happen.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> Actually Tito isn't just keeping busy...I'm sure he would like to finish all of his fights by sub or KO.
> Cheap is a really crappy descriptor to use for a guy like that. He's a hard worker with mucho talent man. Give the guy some props.
> I only wish I could do the things he does.
> I'd rather watch Tito and Ken fight again than see Tim Sylvia and Andrea dance around for 25 min.


Lol, naw Ken is old, i dont want to see him get beat up again. Im not saying he doesn't work hard, im just saying he really only does one thing. which doesn't make for an exciting fight......... Which is why Dana doesn't let him fight much, (but this year he has fought 3 fights, 1 against forrest, and 2 against Ken Shamrock)

I never said he isn't good in the gaurd, im just saying he cheap... its what i have been saying for the last 70ish posts... but this dude keeps thinking that Tito is an expert in GnP

and now he saying Tito is training in Muai Thai, Kickboxing, wrestling, JJ.....

and if that were the case he'd have a lot more knock outs and submitts then he does.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> NICE REBUTTLE!! wow, you just might have nothing else to say.. making up tito's fight styles, and saying hes a great GnPer
> 
> 
> lol, i think you might be loosing this debate, well to be honest i dont think you ever won, HAHAHA.
> ...



Haha, once again you are just a delusional jackass! You have been losing all along, with your MMA knowledge you never had a chance. I have not made anything up yet, that is you, so I don’t know why you are accusing me of making up his fighting style. Oh yeah, because you constantly make shit up for your argument. At this point all I really need to do is keep calling you an idiot because I have already been able to prove you wrong so many times. You know nothing, I won along time ago, now I’m I just keep going because it is so easy to pick your post apart and also because you clearly don’t let any thing I educate you on sink in so I have to keep repeating it.


----------



## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Have you ever seen someone in a clich from Tito, eating his big knees?
> 
> ahahahha i think id fall over laughing if that were to happen.


Well I didn't say he uses it effectively like Silva, but he does train in a wide variety of disiplines.
When I fight and I'm having a tough time with someone, I always revert to what I can do best. For me it's wrestling. If I can execute a leg kick, shoot, pick him up and slam him on his silly head then thats what will happen.
Tito has stand up just not as good as some other guys. He's not the most well rounded fighter, but he is way better than most.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> Have you ever seen someone in a clich from Tito, eating his big knees?
> 
> ahahahha i think id fall over laughing if that were to happen.


Yes, I have seen it.


----------



## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

TLB said:


> Yes, I have seen it.


Yes, he has thrown a few knobby knees.


----------



## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

Anyway, I think the "five on two" is the cheapest you could do in MMA.


----------



## The MuscleShark (Nov 3, 2006)

daman5 said:


> lol sorry, if your busy i can wait, i have a long weekend this weekend.. hehe so i have time to kill until my gf gets off of work.
> 
> but theres no rush.. id wouldn't want you to get in touble over a fourm.


does your gf know how much of an idiot you are.........lol your comments dont make sense.....tito doesn't have good stand out because he has big legs are you for real...oh my god bro your absolutely clueless are you.....


----------



## herton17 (Sep 13, 2006)

This is the most posts I ve seen since the UFC vs. PRIDE discussion. It went from 'Cheapest move in UFC' to 'Tito's fighting styles' and so on. Will it ever stop? Mouahahah


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> Yes, I have seen it.


lol, yes everyone in the ufc has thrown knees, but to work a clinch effectily you have to hold the back of the neck down and hit him all over the body, toss 1 or 2 knees doesn't make you an expert at muai thai, just like sitting in someones gaurd looking busy doesn't make you an expert.


----------



## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

Nor does one trip to the strip club make a gynecologist


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> Nor does one trip to the strip club make a gynecologist


ahahaha nice man, hummmm I worked at a box factory when i was on a summer inbetween school, and i inspected boxes, does that make me an expert? :thumbsup:


----------



## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

daman5 said:


> ahahaha nice man, hummmm I worked at a box factory when i was on a summer inbetween school, and i inspected boxes, does that make me an expert? :thumbsup:


Hmmm...I like boxes! Big ones, little ones...uhh well not the really little ones...and not the really big ones either. I think I just like the mid range ones.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> Hmmm...I like boxes! Big ones, little ones...uhh well not the really little ones...and not the really big ones either. I think I just like the mid range ones.


I gotta get your opinion, do you think Tito is an expert at the Gound and Pound?

or do you think he's a above mid ranged fighter with power, and the ability to hold his opponent to the ground, and keep it busy?


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

daman5 said:


> lol, yes everyone in the ufc has thrown knees, but to work a clinch effectily you have to hold the back of the neck down and hit him all over the body, toss 1 or 2 knees doesn't make you an expert at muai thai, just like sitting in someones gaurd looking busy doesn't make you an expert.


Yes daman I know how that works and he used the maui thi clinch very well in his first fight with Shamrock. And I never said he was a Maui Thi specialist, all I said was that he trains maui thai. He is however a GnP specialist because that is what he does best for many reasons I have already explained, he uses that very effectively in basically all of his fights.


----------



## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

daman5 said:


> I gotta get your opinion, do you think Tito is an expert at the Gound and Pound?
> 
> or do you think he's a above mid ranged fighter with power, and the ability to hold his opponent to the ground, and keep it busy?


I think it's a contradiction, cause in order to GnP you have to hold him. And he does hit guys well from the ground.
I guess I'm unsure of what you guys consider an expert at GnP. GnP is pretty much a neanderthal way to fight anyway IMO. The Pride guys seem to have more finesse, but I love the caveman, beat the piss outa each other stuff too.
Really, this is all a matter of opinion anyway. The important thing here is that we waste our Friday at work talking jibberish to each other and then we go home and shoot our signifigant other with our flesh muskets


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

Haha, well thats one way to look at it.


----------



## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

I have to say I was vry disappointed with the last Hughes vs. Penn fight. Matt needs more standup, but I still think he's great  GnP or not.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

He’s improving, Penn himself said his stand up is way better than it was in there first fight. But he was getting his asskicked, I like Hughes but I’m a big GSP fan too and I really think GSP will be the WW champ by the end of the night on the 18th. How did this turn into a discussion about Hughes?


----------



## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

TLB said:


> He’s improving, Penn himself said his stand up is way better than it was in there first fight. But he was getting his asskicked, I like Hughes but I’m a big GSP fan too and I really think GSP will be the WW champ by the end of the night on the 18th. How did this turn into a discussion about Hughes?


I don't know I'm lazy today and don't feel like switching threads.


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> I don't know I'm lazy today and don't feel like switching threads.


Haha, I hear that, we’re already here so why not?


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> I think it's a contradiction, cause in order to GnP you have to hold him. And he does hit guys well from the ground.
> I guess I'm unsure of what you guys consider an expert at GnP. GnP is pretty much a neanderthal way to fight anyway IMO. The Pride guys seem to have more finesse, but I love the caveman, beat the piss outa each other stuff too.
> Really, this is all a matter of opinion anyway. The important thing here is that we waste our Friday at work talking jibberish to each other and then we go home and shoot our signifigant other with our flesh muskets


ok, thanks for your opinion :thumbsup:


----------



## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

Matt is getting better all the time. My coach has been training Royce on his stand up and I'd like to see him fight Matt again. I think it would suprise alot of people to see what he can do now.


----------



## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

daman5 said:


> ok, thanks for your opinion :thumbsup:


 No prob, you guys have a great weekend!


----------



## jesse danger (Oct 15, 2006)

TLB said:


> Haha, UFC is the women’s basketball of MMA” and “knocking someone out with a slam is pathetic” and this guy expects to be taken serious! Haha.


are you joking ufc and pride are top mma and have the best fighters.


----------



## The MuscleShark (Nov 3, 2006)

jesse danger said:


> are you joking ufc and pride are top mma and have the best fighters.


he is joking you retard


----------



## TLB (Sep 6, 2006)

jesse danger said:


> are you joking ufc and pride are top mma and have the best fighters.


I was quoteing daman5, and no, he was not joking.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

TLB said:


> I was quoteing daman5, and no, he was not joking.


and i ment every word of it


----------



## The MuscleShark (Nov 3, 2006)

daman5 said:


> and i ment every word of it


I know you did and your being a retard like usual


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

The MuscleShark said:


> I know you did and your being a retard like usual


humm, nice to see you resort to words like that....

and it's true, we have already went over this

Better rules = better fights, better fights = better fighters.

therefore 
Pride > UFC.
Thats why UFC it is like the womens basketball team.

But thanks for coming out.


----------



## The MuscleShark (Nov 3, 2006)

daman5 said:


> humm, nice to see you resort to words like that....
> 
> and it's true, we have already went over this
> 
> ...


Well thanks for coming out and being a retard....I thought they banned you allready...hahahaha


----------



## The MuscleShark (Nov 3, 2006)

daman5 said:


> humm, nice to see you resort to words like that....
> 
> and it's true, we have already went over this
> 
> ...


You should be in an mma forum for women as far asim concerned with your opnions and your im always right attitude


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

The MuscleShark said:


> Well thanks for coming out and being a retard....I thought they banned you allready...hahahaha


Just because you don't like what i have to say, doesn't mean i should get banned. If i start calling you all racist names, and belittling you, and calling you hurtful names, then i should get banned.

But a select few seem to think that they are gods gifts to this MMA fourm, and that we should all bow down to everything they say. Where as I dont see it that sameway. I see it how it is, and its not suked because i like or dislike the fighter.


----------



## daman5 (Oct 16, 2006)

The MuscleShark said:


> You should be in an mma forum for women as far asim concerned with your opnions and your im always right attitude


I think you are all caught up in the hype of the UFC.


----------



## Conor.M (Nov 8, 2006)

daman5 shut the fu ck up


----------



## asskicker (Aug 27, 2006)

This thread is no longer related to MMA and now it will be close thanks to daman.:thumbsdown:


----------

