# religious fighters



## ramcalgaryr (Oct 23, 2006)

can you be religious and still fight for entertainment.......


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## f-dog (Oct 16, 2006)

Why not? What you're really asking is 'is fighting a sin?' Personally I do not believe that it is sinful when two willing participants agree to fight each other in a controlled and regulated environment. Street fighting is another story.


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

i'm just disgusted when a fighter thanks god for all the work the fighter did. anyone that thinks that God had anything to do with the hard work and preparation for the fight is batty! i mean, it's just another example of delegating the good onto god while ignoring the bad completely, or taking credit for that... either god helped you both win and/or lose, or not. can't have one or the other!


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## j.farrell (Oct 6, 2006)

ramcalgaryr said:


> can you be religious and still fight for entertainment.......


ron waterman tours around the country doing like bible studies for kids. so i guess its cool with him. he has talked about it in interviews.:dunno:


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## Asian Sensation (Oct 9, 2006)

everytime i think of religious fighter i think of vitor belfort when he beat marvin eastman and couldnt stop crying and saying how much he loved jesus even during the replay of what happend all he could say wa he loved jesus then the guy takes away the mic and vitors like I HAVE MORE TO SAY:laugh: then when he fights randy the third time he has that creepy music saying god will protect him:dunno:


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## moldy (May 6, 2006)

yeah and kimo came out on that cross. Then when royce couldn't continue he came back out and gloatted. I don't get it.


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## FunkDoctor (Jul 20, 2006)

The better question is why not?

The fact is christians believe that talents are bestowed by God. Fighting is their talent therefore they credit God. Pretty simple equation. If it helps them in their lives I really don't care.


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## BlondBlomber (Sep 24, 2006)

FunkDoctor said:


> The better question is why not?
> 
> The fact is christians believe that talents are bestowed by God. Fighting is their talent therefore they credit God. Pretty simple equation. If it helps them in their lives I really don't care.


I totally agree. I think they are saying "I thank God I was able to do this in my life." Not, "God gave me this victory." Think about it, God is Righteous and just, if he helped johnny fighter win, that would be like cheating. :dunno:


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## jamlena (Oct 15, 2006)

FunkDoctor said:


> The better question is why not?
> 
> The fact is christians believe that talents are bestowed by God. Fighting is their talent therefore they credit God. Pretty simple equation. If it helps them in their lives I really don't care.


-------------------------------------------------------------------
I can understand that


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## Organik (Aug 28, 2006)

pt447 said:


> i'm just disgusted when a fighter thanks god for all the work the fighter did. anyone that thinks that God had anything to do with the hard work and preparation for the fight is batty! i mean, it's just another example of delegating the good onto god while ignoring the bad completely, or taking credit for that... either god helped you both win and/or lose, or not. can't have one or the other!



ya i hate that shit...

infact i just hate religion... it seems to be what causes 90% of the worlds problems... 

repped for this


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## Onganju (May 26, 2006)

Organik said:


> ya i hate that shit...
> 
> infact i just hate religion... it seems to be what causes 90% of the worlds problems...
> 
> repped for this


If we were to be realistic, humanity in general would be responsible for 100% of the worlds problems out side of Natural Disasters. If you're going to scapegoat, at least be truthful.


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## JawShattera (Nov 1, 2006)

god is just an imaginary friend for adults


And not only that its being brainwashed. Im glad i wasnt brainwashed into that stuff because when i see religious people i feel sorry for them, especially wne they speak out about it.


this isnt bashing by the way


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## f-dog (Oct 16, 2006)

Psalm 144:1
_Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight_

Rich Franklin.com


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## liveson777 (Aug 18, 2006)

JawShattera said:


> god is just an imaginary friend for adults
> 
> 
> And not only that its being brainwashed. Im glad i wasnt brainwashed into that stuff because when i see religious people i feel sorry for them, especially wne they speak out about it.
> ...


BTY God is real hes not imaginary...lol all creation proclaims his Majesty

lol no matter how u look at any culture ur being brainwashed lol

that statement is just insane like that...u just have to decide if u wanna go to heaven or hell

But on the Subject

I am God Fearing...and for a while i battled could i watch Fights.....i finally can to the conclusion that yea its cool as long as its not done in hate...i mean MMA is about skill and striving to be the best


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

liveson777 said:


> BTY God is real hes not imaginary...lol all creation proclaims his Majesty
> 
> lol no matter how u look at any culture ur being brainwashed lol
> 
> ...


wow...WOW... "creation proclaims his Majesty" only to those who believe he exists. to others, we are perfectly happy waiting for discoveries to tell us what we want to know. i'm not just gunna jump on the easy answer to satiate my own desire for answers. 

but, since this is an impossible topic to discuss with people whoh choose to believe in God, i'm not gunna go any further unless asked!

though i do have one question... you said "you came to the conclusion you COULD watch fights", since they are a skillfull competition and not out of hate. well, were you "allowed" to watch the Tito/Shamrock trilogy since that was out of hate for each other???


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## ramcalgaryr (Oct 23, 2006)

the franklin psalm is not meant for fighting for money or pleasure it is meant for battle


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## fullcontact (Sep 16, 2006)

f-dog said:


> Why not? What you're really asking is 'is fighting a sin?' Personally I do not believe that it is sinful when two willing participants agree to fight each other in a controlled and regulated environment. Street fighting is another story.


Exactly,well said, UFC is a combat SPORT.


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## JawShattera (Nov 1, 2006)

no god exists on this earth whether it be moko-mongo of africa, *********** of china, dingo-mama of austrailia or god in north america. I dont understand how one could beleive in these rediculous things. I just do not get it


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## Alfromsleep (Jul 11, 2006)

Firstly, I'd like to thank God for this thread.


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## j.farrell (Oct 6, 2006)

its not like its justy fighters, actors musician, anyone in entertainment always thanks god first.


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

JawShattera said:


> no god exists on this earth whether it be moko-mongo of africa, *********** of china, dingo-mama of austrailia or god in north america. I dont understand how one could beleive in these rediculous things. I just do not get it


it's a weakness of will, and a general, deep-rooted need to have answers that are more "amazing" that reality.

as if science isn't amazing enough...:dunno:


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## benefactor (Oct 15, 2006)

Guess Ill weigh on this real quick.

Anything used in an inappropriate manner is dangerous. If you put a gun in the hand of someone who is psycotic, then they are likely to kill someone. If you take the same gun and give it to someone who uses it for its intended purpose...which is for protection...then it only harms those who are breaking in to that persons house.

So it is with religion. I agree that there are many people who make Christianity look bad because they are out there trying to pass laws against homosexuals and pushing bibles in the faces of people who could really care less. They take scriptures out of context and try to make them apply to all of Christianity. Even worse, as mentioned above, they run to Congress and try to get thier mandates placed on the population as a whole. As a Christian, I apologize for people such as this. There is much in the Bible that is debatable and subject to interpretation...so I left the theology that makes Christianity the monster it is today a long time ago. Today I focus on the message of Jesus Christ...which is to love all people, regardless of where they come from, what they do or who they are associated with. The religious Christians of today are the ones I fight against(didn't Jesus do that?)...not the people out there just living thier lives. I also believe that there are people out there that can benefit from Jesus' message. Ive seen those who were wrapped up in drugs, alcohol, abusive relationships, etc. use the message of the love of Christ to give them a positive direction to focus thier energy after recovery. Christianity in and of itself is not bad...but in the hands of people with evil motives, it most certianly can be.


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

benefactor said:


> Guess Ill weigh on this real quick.
> 
> Anything used in an inappropriate manner is dangerous. If you put a gun in the hand of someone who is psycotic, then they are likely to kill someone. If you take the same gun and give it to someone who uses it for its intended purpose...which is for protection...then it only harms those who are breaking in to that persons house.
> 
> So it is with religion. I agree that there are many people who make Christianity look bad because they are out there trying to pass laws against homosexuals and pushing bibles in the faces of people who could really care less. They take scriptures out of context and try to make them apply to all of Christianity. Even worse, as mentioned above, they run to Congress and try to get thier mandates placed on the population as a whole. As a Christian, I apologize for people such as this. There is much in the Bible that is debatable and subject to interpretation...so I left the theology that makes Christianity the monster it is today a long time ago. Today I focus on the message of Jesus Christ...which is to love all people, regardless of where they come from, what they do or who they are associated with. The religious Christians of today are the ones I fight against(didn't Jesus do that?)...not the people out there just living thier lives. I also believe that there are people out there that can benefit from Jesus' message. Ive seen those who were wrapped up in drugs, alcohol, abusive relationships, etc. use the message of the love of Christ to give them a positive direction to focus thier energy after recovery. Christianity in and of itself is not bad...but in the hands of people with evil motives, it most certianly can be.


i respect that! there needs to me more people like you, then maybe so many people wouldn't hate religion!!! lol


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

God is real...but religion is fake. (Directed to PT and Liveson and JawShattera up there^)

SOmething created us, but IT didn't create us to spend our lives in fear of sinning and spending every waking moment dedicated to IT. It's silly to believe that, seriously, there's no other word to describe religion better than "silly". 

Go do some research on Quantam Physics and Theoretical Physics. James Arthur Ray is also has some good theories, not religious, about things pertaining to Quantam Physics and such. Anyway do some research, it will do you some good, some mindblowing advances in technology are happening right now that most aren't aware of. Try learning about the theory of parallel universes and stuff and then try to think about religion.


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> God is real...but religion is fake. (Directed to PT and Liveson and JawShattera up there^)
> 
> SOmething created us, but IT didn't create us to spend our lives in fear of sinning and spending every waking moment dedicated to IT. It's silly to believe that, seriously, there's no other word to describe religion better than "silly".
> 
> Go do some research on Quantam Physics and Theoretical Physics. James Arthur Ray is also has some good theories, not religious, about things pertaining to Quantam Physics and such. Anyway do some research, it will do you some good, some mindblowing advances in technology are happening right now that most aren't aware of. Try learning about the theory of parallel universes and stuff and then try to think about religion.


that stuff is fun, all well and good, but they are just abstract theories. there is no way to prove parrallel universes, just like there is no way to prove a God. IMO, theories such as those, do us no good, and are just as fantastical as religion. but, parallel universists don't try to influence life here on earth, in this universe, so i have no problem with them!


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## Halebop (Oct 10, 2006)

benefactor said:


> Guess Ill weigh on this real quick.
> 
> Anything used in an inappropriate manner is dangerous. If you put a gun in the hand of someone who is psycotic, then they are likely to kill someone. If you take the same gun and give it to someone who uses it for its intended purpose...which is for protection...then it only harms those who are breaking in to that persons house.
> 
> So it is with religion. I agree that there are many people who make Christianity look bad because they are out there trying to pass laws against homosexuals and pushing bibles in the faces of people who could really care less. They take scriptures out of context and try to make them apply to all of Christianity. Even worse, as mentioned above, they run to Congress and try to get thier mandates placed on the population as a whole. As a Christian, I apologize for people such as this. There is much in the Bible that is debatable and subject to interpretation...so I left the theology that makes Christianity the monster it is today a long time ago. Today I focus on the message of Jesus Christ...which is to love all people, regardless of where they come from, what they do or who they are associated with. The religious Christians of today are the ones I fight against(didn't Jesus do that?)...not the people out there just living thier lives. I also believe that there are people out there that can benefit from Jesus' message. Ive seen those who were wrapped up in drugs, alcohol, abusive relationships, etc. use the message of the love of Christ to give them a positive direction to focus thier energy after recovery. Christianity in and of itself is not bad...but in the hands of people with evil motives, it most certianly can be.


I am a very humble Christian who doesn't know whats right for you and you don't know whats right for me. I don't find sin in "curse words", drugs, or sex or any of that other bullshit, I trust my instincts (don't be greedy, try not to be an asshole etc.) coz man ****ed up my religion centuries ago.
I find it laughable that MMA would be considered a sinny- sin-sin If I have it wrong, I hope hell has MMA


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

Halebop said:


> I am a very humble Christian who doesn't know whats right for you and you don't know whats right for me. I don't find sin in "curse words", drugs, or sex or any of that other bullshit, I trust my instincts (don't be greedy, try not to be an asshole etc.) coz man ****ed up my religion centuries ago.
> I find it laughable that MMA would be considered a sinny- sin-sin If I have it wrong, I hope hell has MMA


just curious... how could man have messed up your religion, when religion is for man. technically it is an invention of man, but you get the point of my question. if it was trully the real deal, it would be infallable, uncorruptable by man.

anyway, good to know there are some normal religious people out there!


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

pt447 said:


> that stuff is fun, all well and good, but they are just abstract theories. there is no way to prove parrallel universes, just like there is no way to prove a God. IMO, theories such as those, do us no good, and are just as fantastical as religion. but, parallel universists don't try to influence life here on earth, in this universe, so i have no problem with them!


As unbelievable as parallel universes sound, I still find them more believable than any religion. But I don't use that as a life guide, it is just something crazy and cool to think about.


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> As unbelievable as parallel universes sound, I still find them more believable than any religion. But I don't use that as a life guide, it is just something crazy and cool to think about.


bingo! contemplation is awsome. unfortunetly, religion doesn't want thought and conetmplation, only assumed truth, and that's the problem. 

a prof i had years ago, in a philosophy of science class, said that the only theories that are good theories are the ones that can be tested. otherwise, they are just assumed endpoints, and no more investigation can occur. religion assumes to be the end all, be all truth, and that no inquiry is neccisary. science is based on the fact that any theory can, and must be tested!!!


there's a huge difference between a sound argument, and a valid argument. sound means it's presented intellegently and logically, while valid means it is, at that point, able to be considered true! religion is neither. only a blanket statement that trumps all inquiry! therefore it is neccisarily not sound and invalid!!!


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## Halebop (Oct 10, 2006)

pt447 said:


> just curious... how could man have messed up your religion, when religion is for man. technically it is an invention of man, but you get the point of my question. if it was trully the real deal, it would be infallable, uncorruptable by man.
> 
> anyway, good to know there are some normal religious people out there!


I do get your point and I think it is a good one. I could go on for hours on this subject but specifically how man has messed it up in the last century, 

Used religion for the temperance movement to ban alcohol, guess what, it messed with the non christians and pissed them off.

In the 60's Jesus hated the idea of segregation, I guess he is cool with it now, its the homosexuals that are on his shit list now.

TV Preachers-nuff said.

WWJD bracelets 

Abortion Rallys-again, behavior that casts Christians in a bad light, good you are standing up with your fellow Christians but you ain't bringin any new members to the flock. 

Christians that get on TV and say evolution isn't real, dinosaurs never existed, and the world is only 6000 years old.....God didn't command us to be fuking stupid.

The fact that they don't put people like me on TV, no no, where are the 6 people in the mountains of Arkansas drinking stricnyne and holding rattlesnakes....those guys will get the viewers. 

Basically religion now is about ****ing with non-christians, commercialism, and making money. So I don't trust religion now, but it doesn't mean I have to quit believing. So anyway, let me try and tye this back into MMA, Only a fool would think that is a sin with everything else in the world, do you think your God is watching the PPV this weekend? Mine isn't.


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

Halebop said:


> I do get your point and I think it is a good one. I could go on for hours on this subject but specifically how man has messed it up in the last century,
> 
> Used religion for the temperance movement to ban alcohol, guess what, it messed with the non christians and pissed them off.
> 
> ...


the problem is, if these people feel that these actions/tenets/beliefs are central to the message of christianity, then in fact, it is the religion permitting itself to be used in the hands of man. what i mean is, these people have valid points that christianity does in fact say/hint/suggest these points of theres, so then isn't it the people just taking their beliefs to litteral interpretation of their sacred texts?


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## Haplo 913 (Aug 28, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> God is real...but religion is fake. (Directed to PT and Liveson and JawShattera up there^)
> 
> SOmething created us, but IT didn't create us to spend our lives in fear of sinning and spending every waking moment dedicated to IT. It's silly to believe that, seriously, there's no other word to describe religion better than "silly".
> 
> ...


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## Halebop (Oct 10, 2006)

pt447 said:


> the problem is, if these people feel that these actions/tenets/beliefs are central to the message of christianity, then in fact, it is the religion permitting itself to be used in the hands of man. what i mean is, these people have valid points that christianity does in fact say/hint/suggest these points of theres, so then isn't it the people just taking their beliefs to litteral interpretation of their sacred texts?


Yes, it is people taking the Bible to literally. I hope I don't come off as talking down to you on this part here: The Bible is a collection of testaments, many different authors, many different opinions with plenty of room for bias. Without getting to preachy, it is a testament. I believe the testament. I do not believe in arks with two of every animal (cmon) or that someone was swallowed by a whale and lived....these are fables to me. Good messages....not true, if someone believes it I won't bust their balls but....not true for me. That doesn't make God untrue to me. Yes, more often then not, Christians take it too literally or to the extreme. Dunno if you read Nietzsche but he of all people helped me reason all this out. God is dead and man and religion killed him...well man can't kill God but yes he is trying with organized religion. So God is still there for me and I do my best with what I got. What else could he ask of me? I hope he doesn't expect me to follow the fanatics, if he does he should have made me dumber.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Back on topic:

There are a whole bunch of religious fighters, but the one that should be mentioned first and foremost is the preacher himself: KIMO LEOPOLDO!

He has "JESUS" tattood on his stomach and he's been fighting for a long time.

I don't think I count, cause it sounds like we're mostly talking about Christians, but there are plenty of religious fighters. (mostly Christians in the US, but there are others)


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

Halebop said:


> Yes, it is people taking the Bible to literally. I hope I don't come off as talking down to you on this part here: The Bible is a collection of testaments, many different authors, many different opinions with plenty of room for bias. Without getting to preachy, it is a testament. I believe the testament. I do not believe in arks with two of every animal (cmon) or that someone was swallowed by a whale and lived....these are fables to me. Good messages....not true, if someone believes it I won't bust their balls but....not true for me. That doesn't make God untrue to me. Yes, more often then not, Christians take it too literally or to the extreme. Dunno if you read Nietzsche but he of all people helped me reason all this out. God is dead and man and religion killed him...well man can't kill God but yes he is trying with organized religion. So God is still there for me and I do my best with what I got. What else could he ask of me? I hope he doesn't expect me to follow the fanatics, if he does he should have made me dumber.


how do you validate believing in these testimonies, yet not taking them all literally? if you choose to not follow any bit of it, then it shows that the whole thin is selective and up to interpretation, which would mean there is no validity to any of it. what if you chose to believe the wrong thing, and take a meaning that is literall too laxly?

see what i'm getting at?


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

maybe fighters should have a religion based on fighting, like worshiphing Rickson or something... lol... LOLOLOL... sorry i usually don't laugh at my own jokes, but... 


lololol... i just had to!


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## Halebop (Oct 10, 2006)

pt447 said:


> how do you validate believing in these testimonies, yet not taking them all literally? if you choose to not follow any bit of it, then it shows that the whole thin is selective and up to interpretation, which would mean there is no validity to any of it. what if you chose to believe the wrong thing, and take a meaning that is literall too laxly?
> 
> see what i'm getting at?


Yes, I understand. I will try and make sense if I can without inserting too much of my own beliefs since it is a public forum and Iron Man brings up a good point that I am speaking Christian others are speaking "God". I don't take them too literally because it just doesn't fit for me. Those who do take it too literally do not impress me so I don't trust them. I can believe in my God and I believe in his message, be a good person, help people, be humble, respect and love your fellow man. If I do all this I am walking with my God. Am I right or wrong? I dunno but I have faith in it, something inside feels right. 
Plus your point "if you choose to not follow any bit of it, then it shows that the whole thin is selective and up to interpretation"
I believe it is up for interpretation, but you must study your religion and know it. You must KNOW what must be believed in your religion and in my faith there is one thing that is not up for interpretation (Mel Gibson made several hundred million dollars off of it a few years back...before making a spectacle of himself). Other than that, the rest is up for interpretation for me. I interpret it one way, crazy people interpret it another way. It will be hard to convince me my interpretation is wrong when my Christian brethern read a verse "Those of true faith may hold serpants and will not be bitten"...and do it.

One question I still wrestle with is "Is one religion correct and the rest going to hell?" I was told this growing up, used to believe it. Now my opinion is "I don't know and I am not meant to know that but I know if I go around spouting that off, I will not be doing my God any favors, so I don't." I also think the farthest away you can be from God is being a Hipocrite so if you are out there condemning other's religion and such you better be perfect and none of us are. I hate hipocracy more than anything else on this Earth. 

Look at the qualities of most MMA fighters, respectful, hard working, determined, humble (well some )no matter what religion you are I bet these qualities are looked upon favorably in your religion. 

I always get these good topics when I have the most to do. It is fun to switch from Possession of stolen property in the first degree to religion just by taking a study break.:laugh:

And I appreciate that we haven't got a "enough already" message. Thanks for being respectful. Very touchy subject to talk about in public and if you are an athiest, I respect your beliefs too. You have your reasons.


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## You Are a Clown (Aug 29, 2006)

no one has mentioned bj penn cmon now he comes out in full RUCA gear and is sponsered by them


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

Halebop said:


> Yes, I understand. I will try and make sense if I can without inserting too much of my own beliefs since it is a public forum and Iron Man brings up a good point that I am speaking Christian others are speaking "God". I don't take them too literally because it just doesn't fit for me. Those who do take it too literally do not impress me so I don't trust them. I can believe in my God and I believe in his message, be a good person, help people, be humble, respect and love your fellow man. If I do all this I am walking with my God. Am I right or wrong? I dunno but I have faith in it, something inside feels right.
> Plus your point "if you choose to not follow any bit of it, then it shows that the whole thin is selective and up to interpretation"
> I believe it is up for interpretation, but you must study your religion and know it. You must KNOW what must be believed in your religion and in my faith there is one thing that is not up for interpretation (Mel Gibson made several hundred million dollars off of it a few years back...before making a spectacle of himself). Other than that, the rest is up for interpretation for me. I interpret it one way, crazy people interpret it another way. It will be hard to convince me my interpretation is wrong when my Christian brethern read a verse "Those of true faith may hold serpants and will not be bitten"...and do it.
> 
> ...


very well thought out! now here's another question; you said that people must study their faith, must learn about it. but do you include learning about how it was created? meaning, do you choose to believe or ignore that during the council of trent, a group of christian leaders voted on whether or not to have the trinity mean transubstantiation or consubstantiation? it is a fact that this took place. humans chosing how and what to make their religion. 

the difference between trans- and con-ssubstantiation is that either jesus "was" god, or "was like" god. they didn't even know, so they had a vote. 

interestingly, that's where the phrase "it doesn't matter one iota" came from, because it came down to two greek words that differed only by an iota. an entire religion hinged on what a council of men decided...


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## Halebop (Oct 10, 2006)

pt447 said:


> very well thought out! now here's another question; you said that people must study their faith, must learn about it. but do you include learning about how it was created? meaning, do you choose to believe or ignore that during the council of trent, a group of christian leaders voted on whether or not to have the trinity mean transubstantiation or consubstantiation? it is a fact that this took place. humans chosing how and what to make their religion.
> 
> the difference between trans- and con-ssubstantiation is that either jesus "was" god, or "was like" god. they didn't even know, so they had a vote.
> 
> interestingly, that's where the phrase "it doesn't matter one iota" came from, because it came down to two greek words that differed only by an iota. an entire religion hinged on what a council of men decided...


This is a very good question and right now I am drawing a blank. I am going to look into it and see if something jogs my memory but I will look into it, maybe I will learn something. I look forward to getting a minute to look into this. Personally I believe the "was like" but I suppose all Christians do as I suspect this vote effected the cannon of all Christianity. Dunno of any Christian religion where Jesus was God. For me that is symantics but I will not use that to discredit your question, I just mean me personally "was" or "was like", the way it was taught to me it could be both but that sounds like typical religious reasoning, give ambigious open ended answers so that you sound smart but haven't committed yourself to one side. I will get back to you on this.


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

Halebop said:


> This is a very good question and right now I am drawing a blank. I am going to look into it and see if something jogs my memory but I will look into it, maybe I will learn something. I look forward to getting a minute to look into this. Personally I believe the "was like" but I suppose all Christians do as I suspect this vote effected the cannon of all Christianity. Dunno of any Christian religion where Jesus was God. For me that is symantics but I will not use that to discredit your question, I just mean me personally "was" or "was like", the way it was taught to me it could be both but that sounds like typical religious reasoning, give ambigious open ended answers so that you sound smart but haven't committed yourself to one side. I will get back to you on this.


well, what about the trinity? the father, the son, the holy ghost? that means, without question, that jesus was both god, and god's son! that's just malarky!!! lol


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## Halebop (Oct 10, 2006)

pt447 said:


> well, what about the trinity? the father, the son, the holy ghost? that means, without question, that jesus was both god, and god's son! that's just malarky!!! lol


Still haven't looked into your question but I can answer this one. Jesus was a man but that is not why we worship him. The Father, the son, and the holy ghost are definately distinguished into three beings yet they are all one. It is malarky if you think of Jesus and God in terms of man. Man can't be a father and the son. But in abstract terms, which is the basis of religious belief (faith) God is all things. Again, it requires faith to believe, it won't be reasoned with logic. There in lies the question, are you an analytical thinker that must have reason for everything or are you open to the possibility that man was created? And if you believe in creationism then do you accept that it is a superior being that defies man's logic? It takes faith to believe in the big bang theory too and who says a creator didn't cause it? Who says a creator is not responsible for evolution? Religion has been set in it's ways for centuries, and science has come along and answered alot of questions that were once unanswerable so what does religion do? Accept the obvious truth and incorporate it into religion? No, they discredit it and are stubborn now and won't change their mind even though these scientific theories are being proven. That makes analytical thinkers see them as foolish, including me. So I say reason through it yourself. For me I accept there are things I cannot reason through, Why are we here for example. We are here, that is a fact I can't understand so I accept there may be other things I can't understand like having faith in a creator. If I can't reason through everything, I can't discredit religion for being unreasonable but I can discredit religious people that are obviously wrong.


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## JawShattera (Nov 1, 2006)

its all such malarky, i feel terrible that like half of scociety is brainwashed.


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

Halebop said:


> Still haven't looked into your question but I can answer this one. Jesus was a man but that is not why we worship him. The Father, the son, and the holy ghost are definately distinguished into three beings yet they are all one. It is malarky if you think of Jesus and God in terms of man. Man can't be a father and the son. But in abstract terms, which is the basis of religious belief (faith) God is all things. Again, it requires faith to believe, it won't be reasoned with logic. There in lies the question, are you an analytical thinker that must have reason for everything or are you open to the possibility that man was created? And if you believe in creationism then do you accept that it is a superior being that defies man's logic? It takes faith to believe in the big bang theory too and who says a creator didn't cause it? Who says a creator is not responsible for evolution? Religion has been set in it's ways for centuries, and science has come along and answered alot of questions that were once unanswerable so what does religion do? Accept the obvious truth and incorporate it into religion? No, they discredit it and are stubborn now and won't change their mind even though these scientific theories are being proven. That makes analytical thinkers see them as foolish, including me. So I say reason through it yourself. For me I accept there are things I cannot reason through, Why are we here for example. We are here, that is a fact I can't understand so I accept there may be other things I can't understand like having faith in a creator. If I can't reason through everything, I can't discredit religion for being unreasonable but I can discredit religious people that are obviously wrong.


the problem is, that by "abstract terms", you mean illogical! to take religion seriously, i'd have to abandon all my logic and reason! i could never do that!


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## Evil (Aug 26, 2006)

Who is the holy ghost?


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## Organik (Aug 28, 2006)

this thread went wrong.. haha


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

Evil said:


> Who is the holy ghost?


the soul?:dunno: Slimer:dunno: Patrick Swayze:dunno:


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## Evil (Aug 26, 2006)

Oh.... yeah, thats what i thought...


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## Halebop (Oct 10, 2006)

pt447 said:


> the soul?:dunno: Slimer:dunno: Patrick Swayze:dunno:


:laugh: You could have convinced me of that when Swayze was competing with Farley for a Chipndales dancer spot, the only way he could have beat Chris was with supernatural powers!



pt447 said:


> the problem is, that by "abstract terms", you mean illogical! to take religion seriously, i'd have to abandon all my logic and reason! i could never do that!


 And so we have reached the conclusion. I cannot prove abstract terms nor would I try to convince you because I see your logic. The religion discussion is over and we have moved to Naturalism v. Scientific Method. The reason I respect your opinion is that I live by the Scientific Method except for my religion. I would not try to convince you to have faith anymore then I would try to convince you to quit loving a family member (but where does love and emotion fit into the scientific method? Yet it is real.) I hope I have shown you that a case for religion can be argued intelligently although I in no way claim "victory". Humbleness must be the foundation to make an intelligent arguement on religion (but not MMA so I don't show alot of it in those post I have no leg to stand on for further debate but hit me up anytime if you would like further discussion on religion, philosophy, or MMA.

Wasn't this alot better then me calling you evil and you calling me stupid?


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## Organik (Aug 28, 2006)

Halebop said:


> :laugh: You could have convinced me of that when Swayze was competing with Farley for a Chipndales dancer spot, the only way he could have beat Chris was with supernatural powers!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



is that a ballarina beatin up ninjas?


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## Evil (Aug 26, 2006)

Halebop said:


> Wasn't this alot better then me calling you evil and you calling me stupid?



Im sure he wouldnt mind you calling him me.. or wait, did you just refer to me as a bad thing


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## Halebop (Oct 10, 2006)

Organik said:


> is that a ballarina beatin up ninjas?


Dude, It's the lost martial art of "Gymkata" a fusion of Gymnastics and Karate. You should check out Gymkata on IMDB.com sometime. Real movie made in 1985 with the best tag line of any movie:

The skill of gymnastics, the kill of karate:laugh: :laugh: 
All I can say about 80's movies is cocaine is a helluva drug.


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## pt447 (Sep 1, 2006)

Halebop said:


> :laugh: You could have convinced me of that when Swayze was competing with Farley for a Chipndales dancer spot, the only way he could have beat Chris was with supernatural powers!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hey, i'm always up for healthy, intellegent debate. i just can't stand people who just toss the bible at me and tell me to find all my answers in there! 

you sir, are a pleasure to debate! rep!!!


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