# Rickson Gracie vs Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira



## NikosCC (May 16, 2007)

Who has the better BJJ out of these two fighters..

I know Rickson has been quoted saying he is 100% sure he can beat Fedor and Rickson made the same statement about Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira which prompted Wanderlei Silva to say that Rickson is "living in a fantasy world.

Discuss.


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## toymafia (Feb 3, 2008)

if they just had a grappling match then id say rickson, due to having a life spent on bjj.

but if it were a mma match then nog for sure, being more experienced having a weight advantage, and just over all being better at the fighting aspect of the sport.

but i thinking ive only ever since rickson fight once, so i cant say to much about his fighting abilty.

but how knows what the myth of mma (rickson) could do.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

I would assume, as the above poster does, that in a pure BJJ match Rickson would come out on top. In an MMA match, Nog would wipe the floor with him.


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## Tilen (Jun 20, 2007)

Rickson is living in a fantasy world


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## Robb2140 (Oct 21, 2006)

Rickson has never fought 1 single quality opponent in MMA, not 1!! He handpicked Japanese cans to display his BJJ to the world. 

Big Nog on the other hand has beaten top level opponents. Nog would easily beat Rickson.


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## JT42 (Dec 31, 2006)

Gimme a break. Rodrigo would demolish him


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## GKY (Jun 3, 2007)

In MMA, Nog would kill him, hell he probably has better MMA BJJ then Rickson (Ricksons MMA bjj is nothing special). 

In pure BJJ however, I recently got to see Rickson really rolling, and truth be told in his prime he was probably better then Garcia. He would definitely sub Nog.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Nogueira would smash Rickson in an MMA fight. Nog's MMA BJJ is loads better.

Plus, I can't stand Rickson Gracie and would only vote for him if this were a "Who's the least deserving legend" poll.

He is definitely living in a fantasy world, and it's 1995 in that world.


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## Robb2140 (Oct 21, 2006)

Damone said:


> Nogueira would smash Rickson in an MMA fight. Nog's MMA BJJ is loads better.
> 
> Plus, I can't stand Rickson Gracie and would only vote for him if this were a "Who's the least deserving legend" poll.
> 
> He is definitely living in a fantasy world, and it's 1995 in that world.


Rickson could have fought guys like Kerr, Coleman, Bas, Frye and Vovy but instead he fought Takada twice and 8 or 9 other bums who were brought in to lose. Rickson's "Legend" is no better than Hulk Hogan's IMO.


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## cezwan (Dec 7, 2007)

when i first got into mma, i was full into the Rickson hype. hearing the other gracies brag about him being the best in the family and knowing that royce was a machine back then made me think "Holy shit! this guy must be a freakin weapon!"..

now however, i think its just a myth.. if rickson really was that good, he would prove it, not dodge everyone that challenges him.

Nog would beat him.. it maybe close in a BJJ match but thats it.


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## MartorDR (Nov 8, 2008)

I can see him submitting Fedor if it ever went to the ground. Fedor only weakness is being caught too easy in subs.

Beating nog though.... unless he has some weird ass rubber guard no way in hell.


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## cezwan (Dec 7, 2007)

MartorDR said:


> I can see him submitting Fedor if it ever went to the ground. Fedor only weakness is being caught too easy in subs.
> 
> Beating nog though.... unless he has some weird ass rubber guard no way in hell.


he wont sub Fedor. Nog couldnt sub Fedor, and neither will Rickson.

and when has Fedor ever been caught in subs? hes NEVER been subbed so that doesnt really make sense.


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## MartorDR (Nov 8, 2008)

cezwan said:


> and when has Fedor ever been caught in subs? hes NEVER been subbed so that doesnt really make sense.




Hes never tapped. There is a difference. Fedor does a good job defending off Subs, but you can't break all of them, only a matter of time.

Babalu has
Mark Hunt has
Coleman has
Haseman has
Nog has more than once...

There are probably more out there, but to say Rickson doesnt have the possibility to sub Fedor is just incorrect.


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## cezwan (Dec 7, 2007)

MartorDR said:


> Fedor only weakness is being caught too easy in subs.





MartorDR said:


> Fedor does a good job defending off Subs


Sounds like your contradicting yourself a bit here man. you say hes weakness is being caught in subs, but then you say he does a good job defending them? 

Rickson hasnt proved anything at all against anyone. hes like the unicorn of MMA, no one has seen him against top tier fighters..

i honestly doubt he could sub Fedor.


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## MartorDR (Nov 8, 2008)

cezwan said:


> Sounds like your contradicting yourself a bit here man.


nah man. Fedor gets put into submissions from his opponents a lot more than people realize, we can agree on that.

But until now Fedor has slipped or powered out of them. He is good at breaking submissions, but not as good as avoiding them in the first place.

If does Fedor does lose, it will probably from a BJJ artist. My point is sooner or later, hes going to be put into one he won't be able to move out of.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Are you guys joking Rickson would beat both Nogueira's in a handicap match.

Haha but honestly in BJJ Rickson is probably better however in MMA Nogueira would destroy him.

Rickson isn't a good MMA fighter never was.

Any solid MMA grappler would beat him in his prime.


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

I think Nogueira would take it, I have yet to see Rickson defeat a decent (at least in my opinion) opponent.


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

How old is Rickson now?


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

He's 50


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## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

Rickson come on now


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## Ares Caesar (Aug 13, 2008)

MartorDR said:


> nah man. Fedor gets put into submissions from his opponents a lot more than people realize, we can agree on that.
> 
> But until now Fedor has slipped or powered out of them. He is good at breaking submissions, but not as good as avoiding them in the first place.
> 
> If does Fedor does lose, it will probably from a BJJ artist. My point is sooner or later, hes going to be put into one he won't be able to move out of.


Why? What makes you actually think he will be submitted at some point? Heck people have come much closer to KO/TKOing Fedor than they have submitting him. There hasnt been a single submission that was even well locked, where as there have been times that Fedor was clearly dizzied. Until someone actually does it, or has a hold truly locked in at least, I dont think its even fair to assume he will be submitted in MMA.

Also, to add to that, you can see over his career Fedor has taken many steps to become a much better grappler, and his latest entry into the 09 ADCC is only even more evidence of his desire to improve as a grappler. Considering this effort at training even more, I'd say its more likely that he'll never be submitted, than will eventually be. 

Lastly, the ONLY reason he's ever been in so many attempted subs is because of his striking through guard style, which obviously is very conducive to submissions. When you spend as much time striking through someones guard as Fedor does, and not even being concerned about passing guard, clearly you're going to have a lot of attempts against you. You dont see it as much against other fighters because NO ONE strikes through guard better than Fedor, and until someone does, you wont see a similar situation. 


Now getting on topic. Its definitely difficult to say who is better, especially if you're talking pure BJJ, as well all know without a doubt that Nogueira is the better MMA BJJ player. I actually want to lean towards Nogueira in this argument and I'm willing to go against the grain here, simply because A) Nogueira is younger, and is really just starting to decline in physical ability, where as Rickson at 50 has already lost a lot of strength and flexibility that he probably had 20 years ago, and B) Nogueira probably has seen more diversity in BJJ than Rickson has, sticking to mostly rolling with other guys in his own school and Brazil. 

Like some people said, Rickson is the unicorn of MMA, he's a myth... I base things off what is clearly known, not what may or may not be true. Part of me wants to believe that once the Gracie legendary status was somewhat tainted in MMA that they decided to hype up their next best guy (Rickson) and make sure he never fought so he would never have to prove the ridiculous claims made. 

The Gracies are an important part of MMA, and obviously an insanely crucial part to the development of BJJ, but at some point you have to get past the "old greats" and focus on the "now greats"


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

MartorDR said:


> nah man. Fedor gets put into submissions from his opponents a lot more than people realize, we can agree on that.
> 
> But until now Fedor has slipped or powered out of them. *He is good at breaking submissions, but not as good as avoiding them in the first place.*
> 
> If does Fedor does lose, it will probably from a BJJ artist. My point is sooner or later, hes going to be put into one he won't be able to move out of.


Watch his first fight with Nogueira again, he avoided every single submission attempt, at all times he was one step ahead of Minotauro.



Robb2140 said:


> Rickson could have fought guys like Kerr, Coleman, Bas, Frye and Vovy but instead he fought Takada twice and 8 or 9 other bums who were brought in to lose. Rickson's "Legend" is no better than Hulk Hogan's IMO.


Let's not go saying things we may regret later, BRUTHERRRRRRRRRRR.


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## tasshal (Oct 1, 2006)

If nog fights the 50 year old rickson, then he wins in both mma and bjj. If he fights a rickson on his prime, he wins in mma but loses in bjj imo.


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## GKY (Jun 3, 2007)

I honestly can't believe people are picking Nog to sub Rickson in a grappling match. Seriously Rickson could probably sub Nog blindfolded. Sure Ricksons a dick, but in that one aspect he is leaps and bounds above anyone, and Nog ain't that good in pure BJJ anyways. 

In MMA however Nog would nut crush him.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Keep believing the hype, Rickson fans. Keep believing the hype.










Look at how sleazy Rickson Gracie looks in this picture. Seriously, dude looks like someone who sells nudey magazines on the Vegas strip.


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