# Shogun Rua next 205 Champ



## bucknkd (Jun 14, 2009)

If shogun can get his cardio in order i believe he has the style to beat Lyoto. Im not saying it would be easy but he'll need to utilize some of his high flying acrobatics he used so well in Pride.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

I think Machida stops him.


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## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

Shogun via acrobatics, lol! But seriously, great that you have the guts to go out on a line to predict the total underdog to win. Because, most people's opinion on this forum differs.

I personally have a feeling though Rua might take this. No idea how, cause Machida has looked pretty unbeatable, but I have a feeling nevertheless. Sort of like against Liddell when he just took him apart in the standup when many didn't think Rua could take Liddell in the standup.


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## Villian (Jul 23, 2008)

I agree with you, I see shogun catching machida with a nice shot standing and then taking him to the ground subbing him or GNP'ing his ass out.


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## palmerboy (Oct 23, 2008)

Villian said:


> I agree with you, I see shogun catching machida with a nice shot standing and then taking him to the ground subbing him or GNP'ing his ass out.


I dont post here much i mainly lurk in the background but i was surprised reading this.

And i'm all up for Shogun to take this fight. If it goes to the ground Machida should be in trouble. Normally Shogun would be lethal in a thai clinch but i read somewhere else that Machida has trained in Sumo of all things so he is probably quite strong in a clinch. But Shogun is the man and i think he will fight intelligently and find a way to win like he usually does.


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## NastyNinja (Feb 4, 2009)

Shogun has not looked like shogun in a very long time, I want him to put Machida in a survival fight to just see how he is, but Shogun did not prove anything as in his gas tank in the Chuck fight and that was #1 issue everybody had with him.

I want Machida to get hurt or rocked, I can see Shogun doing this in the early round when they try to feel the range and eachother but this is still just a wish.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

Lyoto is unbelievable but Shogun has rolled like a pimp from a long time. I can only see him displaying his skills with even greater intensity from here on out. I'm leaning towards Shogun, only because he's going to be a hungrier fighter coming into this fight. He's got more to prove.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

If it hits the ground Machida will be the one who'll be subbing Shogun.


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## Guy (Feb 17, 2008)

I'm with ya on this one brother.

If Shogun is back to his old form, he'd be an unstoppable force.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Anyone can be beat, and while Machida hasn't shown any weaknesses, I hope a guy with a sick style like Shogun can exploit him when he starts to flurry.


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## CaliKid925 (Mar 21, 2009)

I dont think Shogun has that great of a chance. I think He look desent for a round or two, but he'll tire out and get tko'd or lose a desicion. Even if Shogun gets his cardio better i dont think he will ever be the UFC champ without things like soccer kicks.


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## looney liam (Jun 22, 2007)

shogun does have a chance at beating lyoto but it's not in the standup. shoguns aggresive style plays right into lyotos hands and he'd be countered all day.

now i think to beat machida you have to take him to the ground. shoguns pretty relentless with his single legs and throws, so theres a fair chance he could catch machida off guard and get him down. shoguns ground game is probably better than machida's so theres an alright chance shogun can get a submission.

shogun really needs to finish the fight early though. i doubt his cardio will hold up well after 2 rounds and machida would pick him apart if he gases.


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

lyoto machida isnt 40 years old like ruas last 2 opponents and certainly nowhere near as one dimensional . ruas got a slim punchers chance at best (and not much of one , either ) at beating machida . wherever rua is normally excelling hes only about equal or less than compared to machida in that regarde . he comes in swinging wildly like usual he will either get koed or picked apart by machida . he wont land that weak left on lyoto and drop him , ill guareentee that . on the ground ruas great , but so is machida . lyotos got a black belt in jj from the nog bros , no slouch im sure . i just dont see where ruas got any clear advantage here to exploit machida ? if you do , please shed some light for me .


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

I picked Shogun over Griffin, I picked Shogun over Coleman, I picked Shogun over Liddell, but I won't bet my credit points on him when he fights Machida. I want him to win, but I don' think he can.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

As much as I like Shogun, I don't see it happening. If he somehow manages to win this, I will be very happy for him (I would probably jump to my feet and scream his name so everyone in the neighborhood can hear it), but I won't be disappointed if he doesn't, because I also like Machida and it would seriously hurt his cred in the MMA world if he lost his first title defense.


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## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

i like shogun b\c of his powerful leg kicks. machida's stance leaves his left leg open for kicks. if shogun can kick machida's lead leg effectively it'll bring his head closer. 

and we also saw in the liddell fight that shogun can be patient with a counter striker. before the liddell fight very few people gave shogun a chance saying his wild strikes would get countered all day long. clearly that wasnt the case.


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## AceCombat (Mar 6, 2007)

Shogun with good cardio is still not a favorite in this fight. While Shogun may possess all of the tools necessary to defeat Machida, he won't have the opportunity to use them if he has no gas. Assuming Shogun shows up fight night in tremendous shape, I still see Machida getting the KO unless Shogun cleans up his striking (sloppy ever since debuting in the UFC).


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

How did i miss this thread.........?????

The Answer is no...machidas cardio is fine and the next 205 champ happened at the last PPV when Machida beat rashad. Shogun is not going to outstrike machida and he isnt gonna take him down and maul him on the ground...

Hell, Shogun is the one who needs to worry bout cardio and he needs to worry about being sucked in by Lyoto and then gettin caught.....:thumb02:



spaulding91 said:


> i like shogun b\c of his powerful leg kicks. machida's stance leaves his left leg open for kicks. if shogun can kick machida's lead leg effectively it'll bring his head closer.
> 
> and we also saw in the liddell fight that shogun can be patient with a counter striker. before the liddell fight very few people gave shogun a chance saying his wild strikes would get countered all day long. clearly that wasnt the case.


Im sure machida has no idea how to check leg kicks......c'mon and if he really didnt dont you think he's trainning for that????



Sory for the double post.......


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## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

coldcall420 said:


> Im sure machida has no idea how to check leg kicks......c'mon and if he really didnt dont you think he's trainning for that????
> 
> 
> 
> Sory for the double post.......



dont know, never really seen anyone throw crisp leg kicks at him. and i can counter that last point with quinton jackson. you would think he would constantly train to check leg kicks but he doesnt. 

fact of the matter is shoguns kicks could be null and void in the fight but it is an advantage he could try to exploit. we wont know till they get in the cage. its the beauty of mma.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

coldcall420 said:


> How did i miss this thread.........?????
> 
> The Answer is no...machidas cardio is fine and the next 205 champ happened at the last PPV when Machida beat rashad. Shogun is not going to outstrike machida and he isnt gonna take him down and maul him on the ground...
> 
> Hell, Shogun is the one who needs to worry bout cardio and he needs to worry about being sucked in by Lyoto and then gettin caught.....:thumb02:


Thats so funny, not your post but when I was reading from the beginning I kept thinking Coldcall or Micheal Carson are gonna put the brakes on this thread!


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

spaulding91 said:


> dont know, never really seen anyone throw crisp leg kicks at him. and i can counter that last point with quinton jackson. you would think he would constantly train to check leg kicks but he doesnt.
> 
> fact of the matter is shoguns kicks could be null and void in the fight but it is an advantage he could try to exploit. we wont know till they get in the cage. its the beauty of mma.


 
my counter to your rampage point is Lyoto has somthing that rampage doesnt.......

Disipline:thumbsup:

Rampage knows its a weakness and refuses to change it after his camp said they had been working hard on that.......


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## bucknkd (Jun 14, 2009)

joppp said:


> Shogun via acrobatics, lol! But seriously, great that you have the guts to go out on a line to predict the total underdog to win. Because, most people's opinion on this forum differs.
> 
> 
> 
> well thank you, im not saying Rua will win, i want him to though. I just see something in Rua and i believe he does have a chance now that the ring rust should be gone. He finally understands what it takes to fight in the UFC. He is training full time, not focusing on renting apartments. In my books hes got the skills to win at the least make this fight competitive. Tito Ortiz did well against Lyoto damn near subbing him. Shogun submission skills are on another level compared to Tito.


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## neoseeker (Jun 16, 2007)

I want Shogun to win and I think he will find a way. Shogun is a well rounded fighter that wants to be back on top. We saw improvement from Coleman to Chuck and I think we're going to see even some more against Machida.


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## vader (Sep 16, 2007)

This is a wagon I can jump onto. Shogun next LHW champ!:thumb02:


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## LCRaiders (Apr 7, 2008)

It should be an interesting fight but i don't see Shogun beating Machida.

I don't see anymore beating Machida at the moment other than Rampage.

But hopefully Shogun get's his cardio together and makes it an entertaining fight


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## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

I'd hate to say this. I was a Shogun fan for awhile. I still am.. Would pay to see his matches even if its a match hes gonna lose.

Even Shogun at his peak, has no weapons for Lyoto. A counter puncher against an aggressive style will usually end with the counter puncher winning.

The Shogun of now still has has questionable cardio. I dont know if I'm the only one that noticed this but his victory over Chuck Liddell, he was gassed at the end(heavy breathing while interviewed).

Now heres a couple of factors in this fight:

1) Would cardio really play a role against a placid counter striker? Lyoto doesnt strike me as an aggressive fighter enough to test your cardio. This fight could be extremely boring with both of em just circling each other.

2) Ground game? Even if Shogun gets him on the ground, would it be better for him or will he excert too much energy positioning himself and trying to ground and pound?

3) Would Shogun be prepared mentally for this fight? I think Lyoto's style tends to mess with a person mentally. As it seems to be a frustrating style to figure out. We all know what it's like to be frustrated that you lose all logical thoughts and start just "winging" it.

All in all.. I dont see how Shogun can win this even at his peak.


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## AceCombat (Mar 6, 2007)

Notoriousxpinoy said:


> I'd hate to say this. I was a Shogun fan for awhile. I still am.. Would pay to see his matches even if its a match hes gonna lose.
> 
> Even Shogun at his peak, has no weapons for Lyoto. A counter puncher against an aggressive style will usually end with the counter puncher winning.
> 
> ...


Duuuuuude I can appreciate intelligent input anyday. I 1000% agree with all of your points -- very well put.


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## cdtcpl (Mar 9, 2007)

I am not stating Shogun is overrated or anything, but I think he plays perfectly into Machida's comfortable style. What is probably the scarriest part is even when Machida isn't in his comfortable couter puncher style he is still dominating.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

neoseeker said:


> I want Shogun to win and I think he will find a way. Shogun is a well rounded fighter that wants to be back on top. We saw improvement from Coleman to Chuck and I think we're going to see even some more against Machida.


 
An improvement from Coleman to Chuck????? Is that a joke....yeah he improved from one washed up guy to one thats on the fast track to being retired and you think thats a tune up for Machida when there are guys like rashad, silva, and oh wait....forrest griffin.....that can give him a way better tune up and one already did.....

I bet rashad would beat Shogun and you think he improved cuz he beat chuck......it wasnt even a pretty k/o.....:sarcastic12:


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## neoseeker (Jun 16, 2007)

You have to agree that the Shogun that beat Chuck was an improved version of the one that fought Coleman. Regardless of your feelings towards Shogun that is a reality you cannot deny.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

Shogun won't win. He's a fantastic fighter and all, but believe me, he will not win. (I bet on him against Chuck.) Until a new prospect comes along, I see NO ONE in the UFC (or MMA for that matter) beating Machida. He will have a much longer reign than Silva. Sig bets? Username bets? Anal sex virginity bets?


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## Mauricio Rua (May 27, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> An improvement from Coleman to Chuck????? Is that a joke....yeah he improved from one washed up guy to one thats on the fast track to being retired and you think thats a tune up for Machida when there are guys like rashad, silva, and oh wait....forrest griffin.....that can give him a way better tune up and one already did.....
> 
> I bet rashad would beat Shogun and you think he improved cuz he beat chuck......it wasnt even a pretty k/o.....:sarcastic12:


A tune up he received in his first fight in the UFC with a couple of rule changes he isn't used to, knee problems, getting married, he really wasn't concerned for this fight. I bet he didn't even know who Forrest was prior to the fight. Forrest ended up winning in the last seconds of round 3. I'm surprised Forrest didn't beat him in the first minute of round 1 if Shogun is really that bad. 

You think Rashad would beat Shogun? With what, his "crisp boxing"?.... lol, this would be the fight Rashad would find out he isn't a boxer and is a wrestler.


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

I think it's funny...Rashad apparently had the tools to beat Machida as well. I guess the tools have changed huh?


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

What's up with this assumption that Shogun will sub Machida if the fight hits the ground? Because he subbed Randleman? The guy Cro Cop caught with a guillotine?


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## AK-Bronco (Feb 25, 2008)

I think that the bigger issue here is that this fight will never happen. There are much more marketable fighters ahead of shogun. Quinton, Frankin, Forrest (if he beats Silva) and a rematch with Rashad. Lyoto had to go 6-0 before he got his title shot. Unless the UFC can find a better way to market Shogun to the casual fan I think that he will be relegated to co-main event status.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

AK-Bronco said:


> I think that the bigger issue here is that this fight will never happen. There are much more marketable fighters ahead of shogun. Quinton, Frankin, Forrest (if he beats Silva) and a rematch with Rashad. Lyoto had to go 6-0 before he got his title shot. Unless the UFC can find a better way to market Shogun to the casual fan I think that he will be relegated to co-main event status.


This fight has already been announced.


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## AK-Bronco (Feb 25, 2008)

Spoken812 said:


> This fight has already been announced.


That would make me the the a$$hole at this party.:shame01:


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

It's ok AK. Just means you need to come to the forum more often


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Mauricio Rua said:


> A tune up he received in his first fight in the UFC with a couple of rule changes he isn't used to, knee problems, getting married, he really wasn't concerned for this fight. I bet he didn't even know who Forrest was prior to the fight. Forrest ended up winning in the last seconds of round 3. I'm surprised Forrest didn't beat him in the first minute of round 1 if Shogun is really that bad.
> 
> You think Rashad would beat Shogun? With what, his "crisp boxing"?.... lol, this would be the fight Rashad would find out he isn't a boxer and is a wrestler.


 
This was worse than the other post....excuses excuses.....we'll see what excuses you have after he loses to Machida.....


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## mwhite18 (Feb 3, 2008)

vader said:


> This is a wagon I can jump onto. Shogun next LHW champ!:thumb02:


cosign


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

vandalian said:


> What's up with this assumption that Shogun will sub Machida if the fight hits the ground? Because he subbed Randleman? The guy Cro Cop caught with a guillotine?


And Machida is a slouch on the ground...:confused02:

Besides, who is even to say Shogun can get Machida to the ground?


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## bucknkd (Jun 14, 2009)

LCRaiders said:


> It should be an interesting fight but i don't see Shogun beating Machida.
> 
> I don't see anymore beating Machida at the moment other than Rampage.
> 
> But hopefully Shogun get's his cardio together and makes it an entertaining fight


Really i thick machida will destroy Rampage


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Mauricio Rua said:


> A tune up he received in his first fight in the UFC with a couple of rule changes he isn't used to, knee problems, getting married, he really wasn't concerned for this fight. I bet he didn't even know who Forrest was prior to the fight. Forrest ended up winning in the last seconds of round 3. I'm surprised Forrest didn't beat him in the first minute of round 1 if Shogun is really that bad.
> 
> You think Rashad would beat Shogun? With what, his "crisp boxing"?.... lol, this would be the fight Rashad would find out he isn't a boxer and is a wrestler.


Yeah, rule changes, knee problems, married, he was on his period, had the flu, just got word his mom had died, found out the day before that he has cancer, and the sun was in his eyes the whole fight.

Give me a break!

The Shogun excuses are endless, seriously. I know all about lying to yourself when it comes to a fighter you like and their excuses. Hell, I'm a HUGE Penn fan and up until their second fight, I thought cardio was the whole reason he lost to GSP in their first fight and that he would beat GSP in the second fight. Trust me, excuses are sad and NEVER turn out to work to your advantage.

Facts are facts, and Shogun was tooled by Forrest and his only two wins in the last 2-3 years are against two old guys who are far, far away from their prime. 

His cardio has not been up to par, not even the slightest. His fight with Liddell wasn't that hard of a pace, it had 2 takedowns from each guy and a few exchanges, that's it. His cardio will definitely be tested going against Machida, considering Machida moves A LOT and Shogun is aggressive. 

If his cardio is at its best, then he will push an even harder pace. This is great for Machida fans, really, an aggressive striker trying to hunt down one of the if not THE best counter-striker in MMA right now? Noice, very noice.

I won't get into the details of the technique the two men have, as I've done this a few times already and I am sort of getting tired of it, I will say, though:

Striking - Shogun's striking is too sloppy and his defense is too weak, he makes too many mistakes, he will be picked apart.

Clinch - Machida will rule here, Shogun isn't strong enough or skilled enough to take Machida down in the clinch.

Ground - This is the only place Shogun stands a chance, and even then, Shogun is 1-2 when it comes to submissions, and did not look good against Forrest or Coleman on the ground, submission wise or control wise, not to mention Machida is a black belt in BJJ and has good sweeps.

So, basically, Shogun is a really good fighter, he's done a lot in the sport, but this isn't 2006, this is 2009, and in 2009, Machida is what Shogun was back in 06, the 205 KING.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Alex_DeLarge said:


> And Machida is a slouch on the ground...:confused02:
> 
> Besides, who is even to say Shogun can get Machida to the ground?


Good point. He's not exactly known for his takedowns, after all. And Machida's TDD looks more than solid.

And what's with the marriage excuse. Already blaming his wife for things. Better they're on the counselor's couch already.


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## Mauricio Rua (May 27, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> This was worse than the other post....excuses excuses.....we'll see what excuses you have after he loses to Machida.....


If he loses, then he loses. There won't be any need for excuses. What I said about him vs Forrest was the reality, it's not something I made up....


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Mauricio Rua said:


> If he loses, then he loses. There won't be any need for excuses. What I said about him vs Forrest was the reality, it's not something I made up....


 
The forrest comments are just so retarded..."he probably didnt know who he was....."

if he did know who forrest was would it have mattered, he still would have said i am going to beat this guy......

Im not even bing a dick but you make shogun sound like a bitch with all those excuses.....go back and read what you wrote and imagine someone on a forum was making up those kind of sorry excuses about you to dismiss a loss to a very game forrest griffin who didnt win the fight in the final seconds he ended it!!!!!!


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## Mauricio Rua (May 27, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> The forrest comments are just so retarded..."he probably didnt know who he was....."
> 
> if he did know who forrest was would it have mattered, he still would have said i am going to beat this guy......
> 
> Im not even bing a dick but you make shogun sound like a bitch with all those excuses.....go back and read what you wrote and imagine someone on a forum was making up those kind of sorry excuses about you to dismiss a loss to a very game forrest griffin who didnt win the fight in the final seconds he ended it!!!!!!


Well I said that because I know he kind of underestimated Forrest... but anyways calm down. If you've even trained before then you should know how injuries slow you down in training. He suffered a knee injury during training for the fight. You can't go full throttle in training because of injuries, which leads to not even training anymore. He needed 6 months of rehab to rebuild his knee but he still fought the fight. And he gave a very gamed Forrest a good fight, just look at Forrest's face after. He did good for his first fight, but you're bashing him so much you don't even know what to say. Then the same thing happened to him after the Forrest fight, he blew out his knee again. What did you expect him to do to Coleman after you know Shoguns been sidelined for over a year with surgeries?. Then he took out Chuck in the first round, something Rashad couldn't do (and don't say that wasn't the same Chuck Rashad fought... Chuck was already on the decline after the Rampage fight, yet Rashad struggled to beat that same Chuck). I'm not trying to convince you that Shogun is the best fighter that ever existed, if you think he sucks then you have a right to continue to think that. I'm just trying to give reasoning behind some of his "lackluster" performances because clearly people dont want to look through that.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Mauricio Rua said:


> Well I said that because *I know he kind of underestimated Forrest*... but anyways calm down. If you've even trained before then you should know how injuries slow you down in training. He suffered a knee injury during training for the fight. You can't go full throttle in training because of injuries, which leads to not even training anymore. He needed 6 months of rehab to rebuild his knee but he still fought the fight. And he gave a very gamed Forrest a good fight, just look at Forrest's face after. He did good for his first fight, but you're bashing him so much you don't even know what to say. Then the same thing happened to him after the Forrest fight, he blew out his knee again. What did you expect him to do to Coleman after you know Shoguns been sidelined for over a year with surgeries?. Then he took out Chuck in the first round, something Rashad couldn't do (and don't say that wasn't the same Chuck Rashad fought... Chuck was already on the decline after the Rampage fight, yet Rashad struggled to beat that same Chuck). I'm not trying to convince you that Shogun is the best fighter that ever existed, if you think he sucks then you have a right to continue to think that. I'm just trying to give reasoning behind some of his "lackluster" performances because clearly people dont want to look through that.


 
Do you guys talk??? Is that you Mauricio??? His own campdidnt blame his knee.....cardio is a major issue you didnt really address there and yeah he's a great fighter, just not one that is going to beat machida...

Your going to see shogun try all his tricks, sweeps, he's gonna try to clinch and take the fight down but its not going to happen.....

he will lose the striking battle not because he isnt a good striker or lacks power he just isnt going to land....you have to hit to be effective....right now he is probably traning to hit Lyoto and machida right now is training to avoid thse hits and counter them.....:confused03:


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

I think Shogun will do worse then Rashad. I say that because, Rashad has tight defense, Shogun really doesn't. I see so many openings on Shoguns style, he's just so fast he can cover them up. Lyoto's style, the more I envision the fight, completely counters Shogun's style.

Shogun's biggest chance at winning is in the clinch. Unless of course, he's waaaaaaaay faster then Lyoto which I don't think he is.


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## Mauricio Rua (May 27, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Do you guys talk??? Is that you Mauricio??? His own campdidnt blame his knee.....cardio is a major issue you didnt really address there and yeah he's a great fighter, just not one that is going to beat machida...
> 
> Your going to see shogun try all his tricks, sweeps, he's gonna try to clinch and take the fight down but its not going to happen.....
> 
> he will lose the striking battle not because he isnt a good striker or lacks power he just isnt going to land....you have to hit to be effective....right now he is probably traning to hit Lyoto and machida right now is training to avoid thse hits and counter them.....:confused03:


Umm okay, did you know you have to _train_ to get your cardio going??? How are you going to get cardio by not training? You have to run quite a lot to get good endurance. How was he suppose to run and train for cardio with all those injuries??? That's why he was in horrible shape, because he didn't train well. 

Let's wait and see who loses the striking battle before we jump to conclusions. Also, you're talking as if Machida has NEVER been taken down. Didn't Sokoudjou take him down quite easily... also Vernon White knocked him down quite easily....let's wait and see what happens.


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## bucknkd (Jun 14, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> he will lose the striking battle not because he isnt a good striker or lacks power he just isnt going to land....you have to hit to be effective....right now he is probably traning to hit Lyoto and machida right now is training to avoid thse hits and counter them.....:confused03:


lyoto waits for opponents to to start to throw, then Lyoto fakes a shot causing most to abandon there strike. While this is happening he plants his rear leg and counters. If any striker watches the tapes on lyoto they will see this, Machida can be hit. The trick is to commit. Shogun must feint Lyoto wait for the dragons feint and counter first. Not gonna be easy but that is the blue print to outstrike machida.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

HI all first time poster longtime MMA FAN! I have to address this issue regarding Lyoto Machida and this thread!! Doesnt it make you laugh as a Machida fan like me when everytime he fights a figher they have the skills to beat him lol hes gone through a judo expert a wrestler and ground and pound expert a faster version of him with flash knockout power and now someone with good muay thai skills and decent takedowns and leg kicks has the skills to beat him!!
When are people going to learn that he trains in all aspects of the game and hes probably great at every one of them from take down defense to muay thai btw i think he trains with someone with better muay thai and legs kicks than shogun i.e. Anderson Silva hellllooo shogun isnt bringing anything that Machida hasnt seen yet!!
Anyway thank you for letting me post hope to not get negged repped!!


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

jeffmantx said:


> HI all first time poster longtime MMA FAN! I have to address this issue regarding Lyoto Machida and this thread!! Doesnt it make you laugh as a Machida fan like me when everytime he fights a figher they have the skills to beat him lol hes gone through a judo expert a wrestler and ground and pound expert a faster version of him with flash knockout power and now someone with good muay thai skills and decent takedowns and leg kicks has the skills to beat him!!
> When are people going to learn that he trains in all aspects of the game and hes probably great at every one of them from take down defense to muay thai btw i think he trains with someone with better muay thai and legs kicks than shogun i.e. Anderson Silva hellllooo shogun isnt bringing anything that Machida hasnt seen yet!!
> Anyway thank you for letting me post hope to not get negged repped!!


Welcome to the forum! :thumb01:

I kind of agree with your post, simply because Lyoto has adapted so many styles to his game, but when we're talking about potential number 1 fighters it's hard not to see both guys winning. Shogun has dominated in his past, and has seemed nigh unstoppable in his pride days. Who knows if Shogun is back in style, and who knows if the Shogun of old could even beat Lyoto.

Even though I see Lyoto winning, I can understand why people see Shogun winning.


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## headxsmasher (Apr 23, 2007)

palmerboy said:


> I dont post here much i mainly lurk in the background but i was surprised reading this.
> 
> And i'm all up for Shogun to take this fight. If it goes to the ground Machida should be in trouble. Normally Shogun would be lethal in a thai clinch but i read somewhere else that Machida has trained in Sumo of all things so he is probably quite strong in a clinch. But Shogun is the man and i think he will fight intelligently and find a way to win like he usually does.


Machida has been training in Jujitsu since the age of 7 yes 7. He is a mastered black belt in jujitsu. So for you to make a claim like that is ridiculous. I'm not saying that Machida can't be subbed but not by shogun.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Shogun can win this by utilising the clinch and outworking Lyoto on the ground. He can't win a kickboxing match with him. I have faith.

Also to the above Shogun is way more proven on the ground than Lyoto in MMA.


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## headxsmasher (Apr 23, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> Shogun can win this by utilising the clinch and outworking Lyoto on the ground. He can't win a kickboxing match with him. I have faith.
> 
> Also to the above Shogun is way more proven on the ground than Lyoto in MMA.


please go watch his old fights.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

headxsmasher said:


> please go watch his old fights.


Oh gosh you are right.
Yeah he totally made Michael Mcdonald look like a noob on teh ground! Ryoto Machida no. 1 Jitz in UFC!


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

Spoken812 said:


> Welcome to the forum! :thumb01:
> 
> Shogun has dominated in his past, and has seemed nigh unstoppable in his pride days. Who knows if Shogun is back in style, and who knows if the Shogun of old could even beat Lyoto.
> 
> Even though I see Lyoto winning, I can understand why people see Shogun winning.


Fair Enough post but let me pose this question for you pride was totally different for shogun the ring was better suited for his stalking wild style cause he could trap opponents in the corner right? Has he adapted to the octogan soon enough to take on Machida who used the octogan better if not the best of the ufc fighters now? I agree the shogun of past in a pride ring could give Machida fits!! And speculation is they used steroids back in the days of pride but i wont upset anyone so i wont go further into that!! I think it will be a good fight the thing shogun really needs to work on us cutting off angles if anything but thats easier said than done!! But as of right now shogun is very deserving of a title shot based on past experience and marketability which anyone who said he doesnt forgot to think about!!


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

jeffmantx said:


> Fair Enough post but let me pose this question for you pride was totally different for shogun the ring was better suited for his stalking wild style cause he could trap opponents in the corner right? Has he adapted to the octogan soon enough to take on Machida who used the octogan better if not the best of the ufc fighters now? I agree the shogun of past in a pride ring could give Machida fits!! And speculation is they used steroids back in the days of pride but i wont upset anyone so i wont go further into that!! I think it will be a good fight the thing shogun really needs to work on us cutting off angles if anything but thats easier said than done!! But as of right now shogun is very deserving of a title shot based on past experience and marketability which anyone who said he doesnt forgot to think about!!




shogun was great in pride . i dont think anyone disputes that really . lol . i actually like rua , although i jarred a few folks here by calling him shogirl fer the chuck fight just cause liddels my all time favorite . 

but heres the thing about rua ...i know im getting negged hard fer this but to me , i see him losing to forrest (but had a knee injury , no time to train ) . he beat a gasless mark coleman , who actually did better against rua than i thought he could (even though both performances were definitely sub par ) . he knocked out chuck liddel in round 1 ...(who even dana white , his former manager and best friend said was done before the rua fight lol ) and everyone here jumps up and screams "RUA is BACKKK!!!! " ...um ...i cant understand why so many think cause he went half a round and didnt gas that hes a cardio machine and ready to take machidas title now ... i think theres alot of very positive thinking rua fans on here that need to simmer down just a tad . at any rate , they could be right , but i fail to see where anyone can say hes the pride shogun because of his showings thus far in the ufc .


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## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

headxsmasher said:


> please go watch his old fights.



please go watch the lil nog fight. people seem to forget shogun got his bjj blackbelt in just 4 years. hes also been in there with some great grapplers in the already mentioned lil nog and arona. shogun will be fine if it hits the ground.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Spoken812 said:


> I think Shogun will do worse then Rashad. I say that because, Rashad has tight defense, Shogun really doesn't. I see so many openings on Shoguns style, he's just so fast he can cover them up. Lyoto's style, the more I envision the fight, completely counters Shogun's style.
> 
> Shogun's biggest chance at winning is in the clinch. Unless of course, he's waaaaaaaay faster then Lyoto which I don't think he is.


 

this Spoken812 guy really is startin to know his shit......:thumbsup:


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## Mauricio Rua (May 27, 2009)

headxsmasher said:


> Machida has been training in Jujitsu since the age of 7 yes 7. He is a mastered black belt in jujitsu. So for you to make a claim like that is ridiculous. I'm not saying that Machida can't be subbed but not by shogun.


Actually Machida started training jiujitsu at age 15, and he barely got his black belt not too long ago. Shogun got his in only 4 years. If you don't think Shogun has good enough jiujitsu to sub him then who does? Shogun's jiujitsu is a few notches ahead of Anderson's, I can tell you that.


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## The_Senator (Jun 5, 2008)

> Actually Machida started training jiujitsu at age 15, and he barely got his black belt not too long ago.


It's because it wasn't his priority #1, he concentrated on other aspects of fighting. Karate is his major strength and he completely relies on it, so far the results have been awesome. BJJ is a supplement for modern-day MMA fighter who wants to get on TOP and stay there, it's something you must have nowadays in order to be able to survive on the ground. Once Machida realized that he's amongst the best and is considered a TOP contender, he immediately began concentrating more on his ground game and got the belt, maybe not in 4 years, but I'm sure he's developed some serious skills to hold up against the UFC elite. The guy is ready and constantly continue to improve. Shogun will need to work extremely hard to get on the same level and find a right game plan.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

People might not know this, but I actually like Shogun, probably top 10 favorite fighters, and I see him beating a lot of guys at 205.

Machida is not one of them.

I wonder how long this thread is going to go, the other "Shogun vs. Machida" one went on for a long, long time, so long that me and a few others called it quit as it was going nowhere, much like this one is starting to do.

Anyone want to sit by and drink sweet tea with me as we watch this thread get so deep that people supporting either Shogun or Machida start saying things like "Shogun didn't even know who Forrest was!", or "Machida beat Penn for Christ sakes!"

Seriously, anyone want some tea?


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

Freakin A I want some tea. I'll kick back and watch this thread spiral out of control as well bud.


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## neoseeker (Jun 16, 2007)

Mike Carson wrote "I wonder how long this thread is going to go, the other "Shogun vs. Machida" one went on for a long, long time, so long that me and a few others called it quit as it was going nowhere, much like this one is starting to do".

I think that's a sign of how popular Shogun is. Expect even more debate as the fight gets closer.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

neoseeker said:


> Mike Carson wrote "I wonder how long this thread is going to go, the other "Shogun vs. Machida" one went on for a long, long time, so long that me and a few others called it quit as it was going nowhere, much like this one is starting to do".
> 
> I think that's a sign of how popular Shogun is. Expect even more debate as the fight gets closer.


This is much like the Rashad vs. Machida debate, it went on forever, only I actually thought Rashad would at least give Machida a problem here or there, where as I don't think Shogun will do anything. 



Spoken812 said:


> Freakin A I want some tea. I'll kick back and watch this thread spiral out of control as well bud.


Nice, would you like some "sugar" with that? :thumb02:


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

neoseeker said:


> Mike Carson wrote "I wonder how long this thread is going to go, the other "Shogun vs. Machida" one went on for a long, long time, so long that me and a few others called it quit as it was going nowhere, much like this one is starting to do".
> 
> I think that's a sign of how popular Shogun is. Expect even more debate as the fight gets closer.


 
if that puts your head on your pillow in peace.....its bullshit....but if you sleep better god bless......:thumb02:

I'll be thinking of you after lyoto's next accompishment....


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

Shogun didn't see the choke coming! If he did, he wouldn't have gotten subbed.


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## mwhite18 (Feb 3, 2008)

Mauricio Rua said:


> Actually Machida started training jiujitsu at age 15, and he barely got his black belt not too long ago. Shogun got his in only 4 years. If you don't think Shogun has good enough jiujitsu to sub him then who does? Shogun's jiujitsu is a few notches ahead of Anderson's, I can tell you that.


No one can sub machida dont you know that? The nuthuggers sure do. He beats thiago and rashad and goes from "watch out for this upcomer machida" to fedor's dad. I have no problem with anyone defending their favorite fighter to the death. But some of these "machida guys" get all bent out of shape if you say a Top 10 LHW poses a threat to Machida in a certain area.

They will talk about how Shogun looked in the nog fight from 4 years ago...but don't dare mention the holes in machidas game from the pudgy bj penn fight from 4 years ago because its "so long ago and he's improved." I really dont care if Shogun beats em or if the 3rd guy down the line does..I just can't wait to hear the excuses to why he lost.


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

You need to find a light heavyweight that poses a threat first.

And as we all know, the skills that it takes to beat Machida changes over time opponent after opponent.

It's almost like the Anderson Silva syndrome. Whoever his next opponent is has the tools to beat him and it will be the complete opposite of the previous opponent.


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## mwhite18 (Feb 3, 2008)

Alex_DeLarge said:


> You need to find a light heavyweight that poses a threat first.
> 
> And as we all know, the skills that it takes to beat Machida changes over time opponent after opponent.
> 
> It's almost like the Anderson Silva syndrome. Whoever his next opponent is has the tools to beat him and it will be the complete opposite of the previous opponent.


Anderson silva is the man but the MW division is shit compared to LHW. Rampage/Shogun both pose threats to Machida. *waits for the machiders to point out how machida will pick them both apart and win by 2nd round TKO*. We never know what could happen in a fight..thats why I dont get into the whole fight breakdown on paper stuff. Stating the obvious is cool but people said "shogun's wild style is tailor made for chuck liddell" and we saw how that ended...post fight "chuck is just gettin old" :sarcastic12:
We shall see what we shall see..sucks the fights not for another 4 months or so.


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

Hehe you compared Chuck Liddell to Machida.


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## mwhite18 (Feb 3, 2008)

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Hehe you compared Chuck Liddell to Machida.


I wasn't comparing their fighting styles/skills. I was referring to the "prefight expert breakdowns" of posters on here. I didnt say Shogun would beat Machida because he beat Liddell. HEE HEE.So ironic how Chuck is a legend on a persons favorite fighter resume and he's a washed up piece of trash on their favorite fighters opponents resume.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

mwhite18 said:


> No one can sub machida dont you know that? The nuthuggers sure do. He beats thiago and rashad and goes from "watch out for this upcomer machida" to fedor's dad. I have no problem with anyone defending their favorite fighter to the death. But some of these "machida guys" get all bent out of shape if you say a Top 10 LHW poses a threat to Machida in a certain area.
> 
> They will talk about how Shogun looked in the nog fight from 4 years ago...but don't dare mention the holes in machidas game from the pudgy bj penn fight from 4 years ago because its "so long ago and he's improved." I really dont care if Shogun beats em or if the 3rd guy down the line does..I just can't wait to hear the excuses to why he lost.


 

On the contrery people that are Machida fans wont be making excuses whenever he eventually loses....they will have the ability to answer the question that everyone is asking......What do you have to do to beat this guy???:thumbsup: Just gonna be awhile before you have that answer.....lot longer than 4months....


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## Shogun_Is_Champ (Jun 17, 2007)

coldcall420 said:


> my counter to your rampage point is Lyoto has somthing that rampage doesnt.......
> 
> Disipline:thumbsup:
> 
> Rampage knows its a weakness and refuses to change it after his camp said they had been working hard on that.......


You said that you were in your 30's, yet you can't even spell Discipline.... or Contrary...


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## Shogun_Is_Champ (Jun 17, 2007)

coldcall420 said:


> if that puts your head on your pillow in peace.....its bullshit....but if you sleep better god bless......:thumb02:
> 
> I'll be thinking of you after lyoto's next accompishment....


accompishment... That's why no one can take your debating seriously, because you type like a 3 year old and have no facts, just "machida is reely good at joojutsu, shigun is reely no wel at ufc fighting.


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

Shogun_Is_Champ said:


> accompishment... That's why no one can take your debating seriously, because you type like a 3 year old and have no facts, just "machida is reely good at joojutsu, shigun is reely no wel at ufc fighting.


its usually a sure sign someones losing an arguement when you turn to insulting the mans grammar ..lol .


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Shogun_Is_Champ said:


> You said that you were in your 30's, yet you can't even spell Discipline.... or Contrary...


Yeah, because spelling has anything to do with MMA knowledge?



Shogun_Is_Champ said:


> accompishment... That's why no one can take your debating seriously, because you type like a 3 year old and have no facts, just "machida is reely good at joojutsu, shigun is reely no wel at ufc fighting.


Again, you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about when it comes to an actual debate between two fighters, therefore you result in using personal attacks by saying his spelling is bad.

Seriously, you are completely clueless in like 90% of your posts.



duncanjr said:


> its usually a sure sign someones losing an arguement when you turn to insulting the mans grammar ..lol .


Exactly.


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## Shogun_Is_Champ (Jun 17, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> Yeah, because spelling has anything to do with MMA knowledge?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seriously, hope off of the nuts, you always pretend you're neutral by going "I love Shogun but..." you guys have no clue how to debate at all, anything we say like "Shogun has better Jitz, you just say "Nuh uh, Machida is unstoppable, he's the best, HE DRINKS HIS OWN URINE".


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Shogun_Is_Champ said:


> accompishment... That's why no one can take your debating seriously, because you type like a 3 year old and have no facts, just "machida is *reely* good at *joojutsu*, shigun is reel no weal at ufc fighting.


 
I type fast and dont bother to use spell check like you.....

Anything at his point huh cuz you just have no knowledge of MMA so is spell check everytime.....
your funny....what did mommy cook for dinner and do yo have your homework done or no UFC for you tonight....anyways its past your bedtime...go find your teddy bear and sleep well......

like i need to tell you that your always in la la land......:thumbsup:

sleep tight shogun is chump


* btw *really and jujitsu
but you know that..........:confused02:


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## Shogun_Is_Champ (Jun 17, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> Yeah, rule changes, knee problems, married, he was on his period, had the flu, just got word his mom had died, found out the day before that he has cancer, and the sun was in his eyes the whole fight.
> 
> Give me a break!
> 
> ...


How can he even say Machida will dominate in the Clinch? We have barely seen him in the clinch at all, and Shogun rapes with his knees. And in striking, Shogun has 1 punch ko power, while Machida had to throw his entire body onto Thiago to KO him, and he had to hit Rashad with over 30 punches to drop him.


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

Shogun_Is_Champ said:


> Seriously, hope off of the nuts, you always pretend you're neutral by going "I love Shogun but..." you guys have no clue how to debate at all, anything we say like "Shogun has better Jitz, you just say "Nuh uh, Machida is unstoppable, he's the best, HE DRINKS HIS OWN URINE".


in all fairness the shogun worshippers are far worse in this regarde .


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## Shogun_Is_Champ (Jun 17, 2007)

coldcall420 said:


> I type fast and dont bother to use spell check like you.....
> 
> Anything at his point huh cuz you just have no knowledge of MMA so is spell check everytime.....
> your funny....what did mommy cook for dinner and do yo have your homework done or no UFC for you tonight....anyways its bast your bedtime...go find your teddy bear and sleep well......
> ...


Spell Check? It doesn't take a third grader to know how to spell half of the words you type incorrectly. You never debate with anything at all except "Shogun has been submitted twice, so he sucks at Ju Jitsu."


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Shogun_Is_Champ said:


> Spell Check? It doesn't take a third grader to know how to spell half of the words you type incorrectly. You never debate with anything at all except "Shogun has been submitted twice, so he sucks at Ju Jitsu."


Right, so, because he says Shogun has worse BJJ than Machida(which I'm not sure he even said exactly), and then gives you a source for his opinion(a fact that Shogun has a losing record on the submission win/loss ratio), he doesn't know anything? Yet you can come up and say "Shogun has better BJJ", and be right?

Wow, that's either a major case of hypocrisy or you're just a moron.



Shogun_Is_Champ said:


> How can he even say Machida will dominate in the Clinch? We have barely seen him in the clinch at all, and Shogun rapes with his knees. And in striking, Shogun has 1 punch ko power, while Machida had to throw his entire body onto Thiago to KO him, and he had to hit Rashad with over 30 punches to drop him.


I say Machida will dominate in the clinch because the last time we saw Shogun do anything in the clinch was back in Pride, which was about 3 years ago, by the way. Since then, he lost to Forrest, looked terrible against Coleman, and had a good fight that he got TAKEN DOWN in, that too by an old man in Liddell(yes, Liddell is old and is beyond his best days, face it). Where as Machida has looked amazing in the clinch thus far, throwing good wrestlers and strong guys off such as: Tito, Rashad(he would have taken Rashad down if the cage was not in the way), and has shown very tricky, awkward trips.

Shogun has 1 punch KO power? Yeah, it is possible, as much as it was for Rashad to knock him out with 1 shot. What, are we back to this again? How many Rashad fans have said "oh, he'll get him with that 1 punch", please, it's very sad that Shogun's only chance at beating Machida standing is finding a home for 1 punch.



Shogun_Is_Champ said:


> Seriously, hope off of the nuts, you always pretend you're neutral by going "I love Shogun but..." you guys have no clue how to debate at all, anything we say like "Shogun has better Jitz, you just say "Nuh uh, Machida is unstoppable, he's the best, HE DRINKS HIS OWN URINE".



Uhh, why don't you stop being ignorant and actually know what you are talking about? Why don't you look at my past posts pre-Machida fight? I supported Shogun in ALL of his fights, I do like Shogun, he is one of my favorites, but I don't see him winning against Machida, at all.

Name one time in my post, or any post, where I said Machida has "BETTER" BJJ than Shogun? I'd really, really like you to point that out to me. Now, I have said that Shogun's BJJ won't be enough to beat Machida, seeing as Machida has good BJJ himself and that Shogun, better BJJ or not, only has 1 submission in in his whole career, while being submitted himself 2 times. That's a 1-2 submission ratio, by the way.

I'm hitting you with FACTS, and you are coming back to me with "ughh, well, Shogun DOES have better BJJ, can't you see?!?!?!?".

Pathetic.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Shogun_Is_Champ said:


> Spell Check? It doesn't take a third grader to know how to spell half of the words you type incorrectly. You never debate with anything at all except "Shogun has been submitted twice, so he sucks at Ju Jitsu."


 
your boy will not outstrike machida, he will move in and try to attack from the clinch and from there he will be doing exactly what Machida wants....

your boy isnt in pride anymore and on top of that the best claim you can make is he beat chuck and lost to forrest BUT his knee was fucked up...you wanna debate bring it


bring facts instead of your one sided one same old tied bullshit argument to the table......

and your spelling sucks too as i pointed out above so shut the **** up


did i spell that correct Professor Shogun is Chump?????


The worst thing about you is i explained to you in 5th grade detail what i meant and that shogun is better on the ground......yet you continue...as i sid come with somthing fresh if you wanna debate


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## blang (Jun 21, 2009)

shogun doesn't deserve a shot at the title yet. it was suppose to be rampage's shot. seriously shogun has done nothing in the ufc. yea he beat chuck (who i love) but he's on the down hill slide, and mark colman who has never had any stamina. he needs to beat someone befor he gets a title shot.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Okay everyone drop it down a notch and get civil or Im handing out infractions, this is a warning for everyone.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

i've always supported machida, but not time... WAR SHOGUN!!


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## DropKicker (Apr 16, 2009)

yo SIC... you have to realize that coldsore guy is worst than a machida nuthugger he's practically crabs living on Machida's nuts... and for the record to all the cry babies compalining about Shogun not deserving a title shot.. build a bridge & get over get!!lol... Shogun's got all the tools to give Machida a run for his money.. Not saying he'll absolutely win without a doubt but if not win will at least be Machida's biggest challenge by far.. I need not explain if you're a true mma enthusiast... because you will undersatnd that verstility is the key to a good fighter...Shogun's got it all... You want to talk about shogun only being able to knock out old guys is like saying Machida only being able to beat one dementional fighters in Soku & Tito.. along with a overated Rashad that had trouble with that old chuck guy before actually Ko-ing him...btw Rashad was losing Forrest too before the "puncher's chance" win via gnp... but that's the beauty of mma... you never will know what could happen... my advice is to the itches causing Machida to scratch his nuts lately... Don't be so sure about your boy... cus if & when Shogun does beat Machida...don't be so quick to jump ships as we true Shogun fans will be on a look out to snipe you off board...


Oh btw this one's for ColdSore...Machida won't have trouble on the ground?!?! foo! Shogun is a no Tito on the ground....

OMG think of what Shogun could do if Tito almost killed him on the ground!


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

hmmm, guess you didnt read the part were I told everyone to be civil and play nice, thats one anyone else want to stir shit up?


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

Yeah, Tito came close to "killing" him. Honestly, it was a stupid mistake by Machida. Difference is, he'll expect submissions to come from Shogun, he wouldn't against Tito.

Please post the gif where Forrest Griffin managed to tap, not almost tap, tap, Shogun in the third round in a fight where Shogun gassed in mid-round 2. Oh wait, Shogun isn't the same fighter yada yada.


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

I DO ! I DO! I DO! ..im kidding


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## DropKicker (Apr 16, 2009)

Sorry Toxic... But I just had to let Coldcall420 have one... the kid's been attacking every legit Shogun supporter that has tried to reason with his prejudiceness towards Shogun not even having a chance of winning... but at the same time is scared to take a 2 to 1 bet on credits....


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

DropKicker said:


> Sorry Toxic... But I just had to let Coldcall420 have one... the kid's been attacking every legit Shogun supporter that has tried to reason with his prejudiceness towards Shogun not even having a chance of winning... but at the same time is scared to take a 2 to 1 bet on credits....


 thats just cause he dont agree with shogirl beating up two seniors and getting a title shot lol .


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## Avon Barksdale (May 31, 2009)

Shogun's my homeboi, yo. Pimp's gotta stay focused on cats like that ninja michida he gots to fight soon. Shogun a badman, ya heard? Shogun wont need much gas for this fight, breadwin. Fight will last approx 5 mins and that's it. Machida not at da distance of a Evander Holyfield or a Mike Tyson, yo.


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## Pound&Mound (Dec 10, 2007)

I think the title of this thread was suppose to say:

"Shogun Rua 205 champ's next highlight reel"

O and the guy on top of me needs to go away and learn how to spell.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Yeah, Tito came close to "killing" him. Honestly, it was a stupid mistake by Machida. Difference is, he'll expect submissions to come from Shogun, he wouldn't against Tito.
> 
> Please post the gif where Forrest Griffin managed to tap, not almost tap, tap, Shogun in the third round in a fight where Shogun gassed in mid-round 2. Oh wait, Shogun isn't the same fighter yada yada.


no gif but got a pic... im a big shogun fan but i can face the fact that he tapped.












> thats just cause he dont agree with shogirl beating up two seniors and getting a title shot lol .


there's a little thing called rational decision that the UFC had to make, and thats giving machida fights like he asked for. Machida said he wanted to defend his title, the ufc had to make a rational decision and thats get him an opponent and thats where shogun came in.

everyone is tide up in upcoming fights and rampage took the TuF show if you can tell me one fighter that deserves it more than shogun than say a name...


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Please post the gif where Forrest Griffin managed to tap, not almost tap, tap, Shogun in the third round in a fight *where Shogun gassed in mid-round 2*. Oh wait, Shogun isn't the same fighter yada yada.


Do you not see the problem there?

And yeah, Shogun is supposed to be a new fighter. I don't know why you guys have a problem with people saying that when he had two MAJOR SURGERIES.

I just looked at the last page and saw people saying Lyoto is better on the ground and the clinch.........:confused03: I guess the nuthuggery has truly exploded.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

I'm still not convinced Shogun "is back". It'll take more than an atrocious performance against an over the hill Coleman, and a KO over (as much as I hate to admit it) an over the hill and slowed down Chuck for me to believe he's ready for the likes of Machida. Machida will make him look like a joke. As he will all LHW contenders for that matter, until next generation guys like Jon Jones work their way up.


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

chilo said:


> no gif but got a pic... im a big shogun fan but i can face the fact that he tapped.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A. silva . thats who i think should be fighting machida ...both men look unstoppable and both need a challenge . since silvas moving up why not do it in style and fight the champ of the weight class instead of griffen . he is supposed to be by danas regarde, "the pound for pound king " . makes sense to me ...


it also makes sense to give shogun a shot at avenging his loss to the guy who made him his bitch (, all because of knees and him playing mr roper back in brazil , i know , i know ...)not only would he get a chance to redeem himself if the knee injury REALLY was the determining factor in his loss , but he could atleast say he fought one guy in the ufc that wasnt drawing a pension before he beat them and got a title shot . sound about right ?


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

DropKicker said:


> yo SIC... you have to realize that coldsore guy is worst than a machida nuthugger he's practically crabs living on Machida's nuts... and for the record to all the cry babies compalining about Shogun not deserving a title shot.. build a bridge & get over get!!lol... Shogun's got all the tools to give Machida a run for his money.. Not saying he'll absolutely win without a doubt but if not win will at least be Machida's biggest challenge by far..* I need not explain if you're a true mma enthusiast...* because you will undersatnd that verstility is the key to a good fighter...Shogun's got it all... You want to talk about shogun only being able to knock out old guys is like saying Machida only being able to beat one dementional fighters in Soku & Tito.. along with a overated Rashad that had trouble with that old chuck guy before actually Ko-ing him...btw Rashad was losing Forrest too before the "puncher's chance" win via gnp... but that's the beauty of mma... you never will know what could happen... my advice is to the itches causing Machida to scratch his nuts lately... Don't be so sure about your boy... cus if & when Shogun does beat Machida...don't be so quick to jump ships as we true Shogun fans will be on a look out to snipe you off board...
> 
> 
> Oh btw this one's for ColdSore...Machida won't have trouble on the ground?!?! foo! Shogun is a no Tito on the ground....
> ...


 

For a newby you got balls the coldsore thing was cute, no one else ever thought of that but I bet they dont wake up with them on their face like you do.....

Tito almost killed Machida on the ground???? And you have the nerve to lecture to MEMBERS of this forum about being true enthusiasts...LOL

I have a black in Tae Kwon Do and Im a Shotokan Karate Black so I consider myself someone wh has a true unserstanding and respect for Machidas art......


your a no body nutt hugger that didnt offer one solid reason that shogun legitimetly beats Machida...that gif is cute where is the rest of the fight where he was tossing tito around......plus you dont consider that machida's game was still evolving at tht point as it is today.....


You dont know me dude and you dont read as I posted this earlier on the thread...IF MACHIDA LOSES HE WILL STILL BE MY FAV FIGHTER......

Shogun dosnt deserve a title and you'll fade away like all the rest of the shit talkers....

*Patience -* its what allows people like me to tolerate simpletons like yourself......




There Toxic I didnt curse at him....:thumbsup:


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## duncanjr (Dec 12, 2008)

coldcall420 said:


> For a newby you got balls the coldsore thing was cute, no one else ever thought of that but I bet they dont wake up with them on their face like you do.....
> 
> Tito almost killed Machida on the ground???? And you have the nerve to lecture to MEMBERS of this forum about being true enthusiasts...LOL
> 
> ...


thank you . saves me alot of typing lol :thumb02:


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## vader (Sep 16, 2007)

Im really interested in Lyoto vs Jackson first. I think Lyoto is a great fighter but I will have a better understanding of where he sits after he fights Rampage. I expected him to beat Rashaad and most evryone he has fought so far. Shogun could give Lyoto trouble but tha twould be a great fight also. Either way tehy will be awsome fights.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

vader said:


> Im really interested in Lyoto vs Jackson first. I think Lyoto is a great fighter but I will have a better understanding of where he sits after he fights Rampage. I expected him to beat Rashaad and most evryone he has fought so far. Shogun could give Lyoto trouble but tha twould be a great fight also. Either way tehy will be awsome fights.


Style wise, Rampage is probably one of the worst guys to fight Machida. He isn't very fast, he doesn't check kicks at all, his striking is one-dimensional, etc. He only has 3 things going for him in this fight:

1. KO power
2. Strength
3. Chin

I'm much happier with the Shogun fight than the Rampage fight, based on how well-rounded Shogun is. Although, I don't see him winning at all.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

duncanjr said:


> *A. silva . thats who i think should be fighting machida* ...both men look unstoppable and both need a challenge . since silvas moving up why not do it in style and fight the champ of the weight class instead of griffen . he is supposed to be by danas regarde, "the pound for pound king " . makes sense to me ...
> 
> 
> it also makes sense to give shogun a shot at avenging his loss to the guy who made him his bitch (, all because of knees and him playing mr roper back in brazil , i know , i know ...)not only would he get a chance to redeem himself if the knee injury REALLY was the determining factor in his loss , but he could atleast say he fought one guy in the ufc that wasnt drawing a pension before he beat them and got a title shot . sound about right ?


are you serious? you can't be, you do know they train together and doubt they'd fight each other. 
And not only is Anderson held up in a fight ATM if you didnt' already know, but he also told dana that he wants to stay at 185 so that ends that. and this was all before machida won the belt. shogun might not have deserved this shot, but he is the only one "*available*" ATM so he stepped up.


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## bucknkd (Jun 14, 2009)

blang said:


> shogun doesn't deserve a shot at the title yet. it was suppose to be rampage's shot. seriously shogun has done nothing in the ufc. yea he beat chuck (who i love) but he's on the down hill slide, and mark colman who has never had any stamina. he needs to beat someone befor he gets a title shot.


maybe if some one else had the balls to step up to fight Machida they woulda got the shot. None did, so Shogun does


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## DropKicker (Apr 16, 2009)

You know what's funny ColdCall420 & Duncanjr are the same. It could'nt be anymore funnier that a Machida fan has gone out of his way to to create 2 accounts for himself. Not only that he's also a self proclaimed black belt in TKD & Karate. ... You aren't perhaps Joe Rogan now are ya?


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## PanKrato (Mar 5, 2007)

What a joke.
Shogun doesn't stand a chance.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Machida is a way better striker, and is good on the ground himself. Shogun would get clobbered all night long.


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## Shogun_Is_Champ (Jun 17, 2007)

coldcall420 said:


> * btw *really and jujitsu
> but you know that..........:confused02:


Wow. I spelled that incorrectly because I was "quoting" you with your horrific spelling. Some people are just not that bright.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

DropKicker said:


> You know what's funny ColdCall420 & Duncanjr are the same. It could'nt be anymore funnier that a Machida fan has gone out of his way to to create 2 accounts for himself. Not only that he's also a self proclaimed black belt in TKD & Karate. ... You aren't perhaps Joe Rogan now are ya?


Believe me I can check there IP's they are not the same thats why ColdCall is a beutiful shade of gold while duncan is pretty in pink., 


And SIC dont go trying to revive the shit talk with that not to bright comment.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

DropKicker said:


> You know what's funny ColdCall420 & Duncanjr are the same. It could'nt be anymore funnier that a Machida fan has gone out of his way to to create 2 accounts for himself. Not only that he's also a self proclaimed black belt in TKD & Karate. ... You aren't perhaps Joe Rogan now are ya?


 
LOL...thats what being a member here gets you......lol....know your place you just got here why not put your shitty attitude aside and make a few friends before just enemies simply cause of a fighter they like and have liked????:confused02: read what *Toxic* wrote......




Damone said:


> Machida is a way better striker, and is good on the ground himself. Shogun would get clobbered all night long.


Another respected member with an opinion that some non member will bash with a broad satement like "machida sucks and shogun will wear that belt soon enough".....sure lots of facts there....



Shogun_Is_Champ said:


> Wow. I spelled that incorrectly because I was "quoting" you with your horrific spelling. Some people are just not that bright.


 
Except I never used those words in my pst so clearly you will say anything even in the face of being incorrect!!!!! Stay Hot!!!!:thumbsup: Why does spelling matter that much when you know what each person means....????? Your that desperate to instigate an argument....


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## JuggNuttz (Oct 5, 2006)

Damone said:


> Machida is a way better striker, and is good on the ground himself. Shogun would get clobbered all night long.


A DAMONE SIGHTING!!!!!



but yeah, 3 years ago, id say shogun. now? very much Machida.


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## DropKicker (Apr 16, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> LOL...thats what being a member here gets you......lol....know your place you just got here why not put your shitty attitude aside and make a few friends before just enemies simply cause of a fighter they like and have liked????:confused02: read what *Toxic* wrote......


You must be pretty lonely in real life... yep you sure do have friends on here..friends that you only know by their screen names.. Get a life kid.. And if paying to be a member makes you that much prouder of yourself..than so be it..at least I don't need to brown nose my way to be a a so called "member"...lol..This is an open to the public forum & I'm strictly on here as a member just as everyone else to give an opinion in this sport... If you can't accept someone elses opinion than don't reply with your narrow minded "oh Machida cant be beat he will win always!" attitude.. you need to learn how to accept the truth.. And that is your boy ain't invincible, & so to say Shogun has no chance at all what so ever is ignorant.. I've been trying to get this through your thick head all this time... At least I'm being open about the fact that Machida does have an upper hand in winning... You're just writing off everyone that thinks Shogun has a chance as no... Well whatever...I laugh at your "member" status.. you aint great... please do reply & come at me with your usual immature sh!tty attitude...I'll just laugh again... peace out home slice..


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

DropKicker said:


> You must be pretty lonely in real life... yep you sure do have friends on here..friends that you only know by their screen names.. Get a life kid.. And if paying to be a member makes you that much prouder of yourself..than so be it..at least I don't need to brown nose my way to be a a so called "member"...lol..This is an open to the public forum & I'm strictly on here as a member just as everyone else to give an opinion in this sport... If you can't accept someone elses opinion than don't reply with your narrow minded "oh Machida cant be beat he will win always!" attitude.. you need to learn how to accept the truth.. And that is your boy ain't invincible, & so to say Shogun has no chance at all what so ever is ignorant.. I've been trying to get this through your thick head all this time... At least I'm being open about the fact that Machida does have an upper hand in winning... You're just writing off everyone that thinks Shogun has a chance as no... Well whatever...I laugh at your "member" status.. you aint great... please do reply & come at me with your usual immature sh!tty attitude...I'll just laugh again... peace out home slice..


 
LOL....Your truely an idot.....MEMBERS...coughed up the whopping ten bucks to be members...you didnt which means your a guest.....get it now....and yeah dude after 3000 posts I do know a few people around here.......

Dont get me wrong your 41 posts of insight up to this point have been irreplaceable but some how when your gone over the next couple weeks I think we'll all manage without them.....


"MY BOY"....isnt invincible what is part of what makes him so intesting...if your narow minded ass cannot understand that then thats your prob......


I have no ill will towards Shogun either, just the opinion that he will not beat Machida, I do not dislike him because its in his future to lose to Machida and if h were to beat machida i would still be right here swingin and give everyone that has pulled for Shogun on this forum love for being correct....

Plus we all would have the question answered as to what it is gonna take to beat Machida....I dont say he cant be beat i just dont see Shogun doin it....i'd love to see who could.....

UNDERSTAND....who you are debating, and by that I mean I dont dislike shogun so your attitude as me being a hater towards him is incorrect.....


As far as being a valuable member of this forum....I AM....you my friend are a newby that couldnt get moms credit card to pay for your ten dollar life time membership......

I accept your opinion all day its when you insult people on here after such a short time, how do you ever expect to engage in insightful debates?:confused02:



"home slice"........lol....your wanna those urban gangsters from like the rich neighborhood.......how much you weigh???? without your keyboard I mean....lol


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

In my humble opinion, this fight is going to be very one sided. Machida will stay on the outside, and whenever Shogun does a Shogun (comes in more open than a whores legs) he'll get a few punches for his trouble.

I doubt Shogun will be able to take Machida down, I'd put more into Tito's takedown offense than Shoguns anyday and Tito got thrown around like a ragdoll.

If however it does go to the ground, yes there's a chance of Machida being caught in a sub. Do I think that'll happen? No. Both are excellent BJJ practiotioners and personally think neither will sub the other (unless it's from near KO'ing them first)


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

DropKicker said:


> *You must be pretty lonely in real life... yep you sure do have friends on here..friends that you only know by their screen names.. Get a life kid.*. And if paying to be a member makes you that much prouder of yourself..than so be it..at least I don't need to brown nose my way to be a a so called "member"...lol..This is an open to the public forum & I'm strictly on here as a member just as everyone else to give an opinion in this sport... If you can't accept someone elses opinion than don't reply with your narrow minded "oh Machida cant be beat he will win always!" attitude.. you need to learn how to accept the truth.. And that is your boy ain't invincible, & so to say Shogun has no chance at all what so ever is ignorant.. I've been trying to get this through your thick head all this time... At least I'm being open about the fact that Machida does have an upper hand in winning... You're just writing off everyone that thinks Shogun has a chance as no... Well whatever...I laugh at your "member" status.. you aint great... please do reply & come at me with your usual immature sh!tty attitude...I'll just laugh again... peace out home slice..


Last warning. Comments like these are not needed. You have already recieved an infraction in this thread, now's the time to just drop.

If you two choose to disagree, leave it at that.

This serves as a last warning not only to Dropkicker, but to everyone in this thread.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

*this fight will be interesting for a couple of reasons!!*

1. It will answer the question of why are pride fighters other than Rampage jackson having problems with the ufc ring versus pride ring!! (Movement cutting off angles etc.)

2. Dont hate me but might prove the point they took steriods is it just me or can they do the things they did in pride like rampage slamming people left and right all the time? I could just be speculating though and wanderle silva not having the aggression he had in pride? Just debating a rather prominate issue!!

The reasons i am giving are because shogun hasnt fought anyone of machidas calibur latly griffin was good but not near the top of the division and chuck hasnt evolved enough to hold the title again in my opinion!! And if you ask me the talent of the lhw division in the ufc is slightly above that in Pride!! Please feel free to disagree with me i love a good debate!!


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

jeffmantx said:


> 1. It will answer the question of why are pride fighters other than Rampage jackson having problems with the ufc ring versus pride ring!! (Movement cutting off angles etc.)
> 
> 2. Dont hate me but might prove the point they took steriods is it just me or can they do the things they did in pride like rampage slamming people left and right all the time? I could just be speculating though and wanderle silva not having the aggression he had in pride? Just debating a rather prominate issue!!
> 
> The reasons i am giving are because shogun hasnt fought anyone of machidas calibur latly griffin was good but not near the top of the division and chuck hasnt evolved enough to hold the title again in my opinion!! And if you ask me the talent of the lhw division in the ufc is slightly above that in Pride!! Please feel free to disagree with me i love a good debate!!


 
i think the steroidthing is a little bit of a junmp...I dunno that they were all on juice over there...i mean you could defmake an argument for Cro Cop but either way...the cage is smaller, not that that stops power slams but did you ever think that Rampage has evolved from that move unless its right there for the taking cuz you can get submitted from a slam like that....

Just a thought....


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Well, that's that, then.


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## bucknkd (Jun 14, 2009)

im gonna have to fire up my 360 and show you how i see the fight going


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Uh-oh. I've created a monster, haven't I?


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

vandalian said:


> Uh-oh. I've created a monster, haven't I?


yes, yes you have
can't believe some people still play that game on easy haha


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> *i think the steroidthing is a little bit of a junmp...I dunno that they were all on juice over there...i mean you could defmake an argument for Cro Cop but either way...the cage is smaller, not that that stops power slams but did you ever think that Rampage has evolved from that move unless its right there for the taking cuz you can get submitted from a slam like that....
> 
> Just a thought....[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Yea rampage might have evolved but he hasnt evolved that much lol hence the leg kick issue but i still love him anyways hopefully people respect shogun enough to know that he can end a fight if Machida doesnt drink his urine on the day of the fight HAHA just kidding!! Anything can happen in the ufc there are upsets Shoguns only advantage and people will kill me for saying this is the clinch yes machida trains with anderson silva i thought about this but shogun has been doing this all his carreer so yes i give shogun the advantage in the clinch but other than that you have to catch Machida to get him in the clinch and i cant see shogun being good enough at footwork to cut off the angles that Machida uses in his Footwork!! My prediction Machida 3rd round TKO via ground strikes when he drops Shogun with a punch!! Honest assessment btw coldcall 420 u the MANNNN screw that dropkicker guy!!


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

jeffmantx said:


> coldcall420 said:
> 
> 
> > *i think the steroidthing is a little bit of a junmp...I dunno that they were all on juice over there...i mean you could defmake an argument for Cro Cop but either way...the cage is smaller, not that that stops power slams but did you ever think that Rampage has evolved from that move unless its right there for the taking cuz you can get submitted from a slam like that....*
> ...


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## judodude (Mar 27, 2009)

I predict Shogun will take that belt by vicious knockout and hold onto it for a loooooooooong time.

Rampage, Machida,Anderson Silva are the contenders.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

*


judodude said:



I predict Shogun will take that belt by vicious knockout and hold onto it for a loooooooooong time.

Rampage, Machida,Anderson Silva are the contenders.

Click to expand...

*Apparently you have no reasons to back this up what makes you think that shogun will knock out machida?? LOL posts like this are what fanboys write not people who want to debate anyway heres what makes me think Machida can knock out shogun: I havnt seen his defense yet against a great striker he leans back too much when he defends which means his lateral movement leaves much to be desired against chuck he caught him with a left hand i will give you that but if you have someone who has great defense as Machida does you wont catch him leaning in when he throws punches like Chuck does just a thought on why shoguns defense might leave him open for a straight left hand!!


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

jeffmantx said:


> Apparently you have no reasons to back this up what makes you think that shogun will knock out machida?? LOL posts like this are what fanboys write not people who want to debate anyway heres what makes me think Machida can knock out shogun: I havnt seen his defense yet against a great striker he leans back too much when he defends which means his lateral movement leaves much to be desired against chuck he caught him with a left hand i will give you that but if you have someone who has great defense as Machida does you wont catch him leaning in when he throws punches like Chuck does just a thought on why shoguns defense might leave him open for a straight left hand!!


Jeff, people are entitled to their opinion. It's not that hard to believe a KO artist like Shogun could knock out an opponent.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Spoken812 said:


> Jeff, people are entitled to their opinion. It's not that hard to believe a KO artist like Shogun could knock out an opponent.


This is a forum, Spoken, people are not entitled to their own opinion, unless they don't want to hang out with the cool kids.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

*


Spoken812 said:



Jeff, people are entitled to their opinion. It's not that hard to believe a KO artist like Shogun could knock out an opponent.

Click to expand...

*Never said he couldnt have his own opinion i just asked him to back up what his statement was with facts thats all i guess i think its a wasted post if you dont atleast offer some info on why you predict the outcome on fights lol!! Its all good he hasnt posted back yet no biggie!!


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

jeffmantx said:


> *Apparently you have no reasons to back this up what makes you think that shogun will knock out machida?? *LOL posts like this are what fanboys write not people who want to debate anyway heres what makes me think Machida can knock out shogun: I havnt seen his defense yet against a great striker he leans back too much when he defends which means his lateral movement leaves much to be desired against chuck he caught him with a left hand i will give you that but if you have someone who has great defense as Machida does you wont catch him leaning in when he throws punches like Chuck does just a thought on why shoguns defense might leave him open for a straight left hand!!


look at his record it speaks for itself. 18 wins 15 by way of (t)ko. theres teh reason right there. /nuff said.

let me ask you this, has machida fought anyone thats as versatile as shogun? people said chuck was gonna KO shogun and look what happened.

im not taking anything away from either fighter cause i like em both, but shoguns never been knocked out, only submitted. and a TKO from a broken arm doesn't mean KO.

this is going to be an interesting fight, im going for shogun with no reason other than i've always supported him. and for some reason people tend to forget that shogun also has tremendous low and high kicks.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

*


chilo said:



look at his record it speaks for itself. 18 wins 15 by way of (t)ko. theres teh reason right there. /nuff said.

let me ask you this, has machida fought anyone thats as versatile as shogun? people said chuck was gonna KO shogun and look what happened.

im not taking anything away from either fighter cause i like em both, but shoguns never been knocked out, only submitted. and a TKO from a broken arm doesn't mean KO.

this is going to be an interesting fight, im going for shogun with no reason other than i've always supported him. and for some reason people tend to forget that shogun also has tremendous low and high kicks.

Click to expand...

*Machida hasnt fought anyone as versitile as shogun? Umm wasnt rashad supposed to be versitile everyone considered him to be Machidas biggest threat cause of his speed and his incredible footwork and one punch KO power? Plus he was supposed to be this great wrestler!! I think that qualifies as versitile maybe thats just me!! 

I will give you this shogun has had wins via TKO but how many of those were on the ground due to footstomps or in a ring where its easy to trap an opponent against the ropes!! Nothing against shogun i am all for him getting this title shot i would have ranked him below rashad and rampage with forrest a close 4th!!

My opinion on your leg kick issue ok you throw a leg kick against someone with Machidas speed and what do you think is going to happen hes going to counter with a straight left or throw a leg kick before you do i just dont think that shogun is fast enough to suprise Machida with anything that Anderson silva has trained him for!!

As i have said before shogun is nasty in the clinch but getting close to Machida to latch on is another story!! good post by you though glad you support your fighter!! Last question do you think Shogun has learned enough in the octagon to use angles to catch machida or is it still too early we will find out I am stoked!!


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## shatterproof (Jul 16, 2008)

just gotta chime in to place my opinion on the record, so to speak...

Machida takes this fight 99 times out of 100. Shogun is going to get countered and KOd. that's my prediction.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

*


shatterproof said:



just gotta chime in to place my opinion on the record, so to speak...

Machida takes this fight 99 times out of 100. Shogun is going to get countered and KOd. that's my prediction.

Click to expand...

*Good prediction I guess people think that shogun throws kicks faster than the speed of light maybe!! Btw the guy that posted above me said that he had tremendous high kicks and low kicks? I seem to remember Machida hurting Rashad pretty bad with his high kicks in their fight!! Anyone else remember that!! LOL


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

jeffmantx said:


> Machida hasnt fought anyone as versitile as shogun? Umm wasnt rashad supposed to be versitile everyone considered him to be Machidas biggest threat cause of his speed and his incredible footwork and one punch KO power? Plus he was supposed to be this great wrestler!! I think that qualifies as versitile maybe thats just me!!
> 
> I will give you this shogun has had wins via TKO but how many of those were on the ground due to footstomps or in a ring where its easy to trap an opponent against the ropes!! Nothing against shogun i am all for him getting this title shot i would have ranked him below rashad and rampage with forrest a close 4th!!
> 
> ...


rashad is not as versatile as shogun and you seen it in that last fight, he did nothing but get tooled and KO'd. he was uncomfortable throwing kicks with machida and i dont even recall him taking machida to the ground after he realized he was getting schooled on the feet.

shogun stood toe to toe with chuck and knocked him out. he went to the ground with randleman and knee barred him. and he has one of the busiest guards in MMA.

as for the kicks, when he throws his leg kicks... he throws them then puts his hands up in front of his face. hardly any of chucks straight punches landed cleanly after shogun landed a leg kick. i know machida is quick but how fast can you be once your legs are taking out? shoguns a smart fighter and i can't wait to see this fight.

and for your last question, i think shogun is comfortable enough now in the octagon from what i seen in his fight against chuck. when he got pushed up against the cage he had some good foot work to circle back to the middle... hell he even did the "Ali Shuffle!"


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

jeffmantx said:


> Good prediction I guess people think that shogun throws kicks faster than the speed of light maybe!! *Btw the guy that posted above me said that he had tremendous high kicks and low kicks? I seem to remember Machida hurting Rashad pretty bad with his high kicks in their fight!! Anyone else remember that!! LOL*


he hurt rashad with punches... just watched the fight (have it on my iphone). first knock down he dropped rashad with a left right down the middle but the kick before it set it up. second round knockout all started with yup another left down the pipe.

first you say how you can't see how shogun can't KO machida when shogun clearly has KO power, and now you deny shoguns leg kicks? and i never said shogun threw them faster then light, its you that makes machida sound like his faster then the speed of light.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Chances are Machida will win but as weve seen in the past, strange things can happen in the octagon. I would never count Shogun out, I like the couch warriors saying Machidas gonna do this and that, like they really know.lol Shogun does have some serious skills and some of his skills are better than machidas, so why cant a shogun fan think their fighter will win? I never thought Shogun was gonna win the middleweight grand prix in pride, 3 fights in 1 night and he did it in stunning fashion against some of the best of the best. lets see overeem, arona, noguiera, jackson thats quite a resume. If I had a choice who I would let kick me or punch me Id rather have machida do it, shoguns would be worse, if i had to go to the ground with someone it definetely wouldnt be shogun . None of you people know where shoguns cardio will be at so you can stop that bullShit argument(its old now)


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

*


chilo said:



he hurt rashad with punches... just first you say how you can't see how shogun can't KO machida when shogun clearly has KO power, and now you deny shoguns leg kicks? and i never said shogun threw them faster then light, its you that makes machida sound like his faster then the speed of light.

Click to expand...

*I am just saying with Machidas defense no ones gotten close to him to even hit him flush yet is why i think shogun cannon KO him like he did chuck its a fair arguement!! And theres no better fighter that can counter like Machida which is why i said he could time one of shoguns kicks and throw a straight left if he could time rashad who is supposed to be fast why cant he time shogun!! You can make a case for either fighter but one thing that is clear in the octagon Machida has beaten better fighters and finished more than shogun and again i said in the octagon Machida has been dominate and thats where they are fighting!! Its fun to debate btw i love it and every fan of shogun guarentees his cardio will be top notch alittle unrealistic after the chuck fight to truly tell well have fun talk to you guys later!!


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

jeffmantx said:


> I am just saying with Machidas defense no ones gotten close to him to even hit him flush yet is why i think shogun cannon KO him like he did chuck its a fair arguement!! And theres no better fighter that can counter like Machida which is why i said he could time one of shoguns kicks and throw a straight left if he could time rashad who is supposed to be fast why cant he time shogun!! You can make a case for either fighter but one thing that is clear in the octagon Machida has beaten better fighters and finished more than shogun and again i said in the octagon Machida has been dominate and thats where they are fighting!! Its fun to debate btw i love it and every fan of shogun guarentees his cardio will be top notch alittle unrealistic after the chuck fight to truly tell well have fun talk to you guys later!!


Did you actually say machida has beatin better fighters than shogun:bye02:


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

jcal said:


> Did you actually say machida has beatin better fighters than shogun:bye02:


He said Machida has better wins inside the octagon, the UFC, which he does.


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## Mauricio Rua (May 27, 2009)

jeffmantx said:


> I am just saying with Machidas defense no ones gotten close to him to even hit him flush yet is why i think shogun cannon KO him like he did chuck its a fair arguement!! And theres no better fighter that can counter like Machida which is why i said he could time one of shoguns kicks and throw a straight left if he could time rashad who is supposed to be fast why cant he time shogun!! You can make a case for either fighter but one thing that is clear in the octagon Machida has beaten better fighters and finished more than shogun and again i said in the octagon Machida has been dominate and thats where they are fighting!! Its fun to debate btw i love it and every fan of shogun guarentees his cardio will be top notch alittle unrealistic after the chuck fight to truly tell well have fun talk to you guys later!!


It's not all just about speed. In reality, it's mostly about skill (Shoguns kicks are more skillful than Rashad's.) He timed Rashad mostly because Rashad leaves himself very vulnerable to any kind of attack when he throws his so called crisp boxing punches. Shogun has tighter defense than Rashad. Back in PRIDE you would see Shogun leave himself very vulnerable when he would attack but that's just because hardly anybody would even hit him, he would always be on the offensive end. Now, Shogun has learned to defend himself when he throws(though some may call it very basic but it still works nonetheless). Just watch the Liddell fight, Shogun covers up well and moves away at the same time when Chuck is throwing and Shogun would counter very well, too. For the Liddell fight he trained with the strategy "to not get hit". He trained with new coaches and got a nutritionist and what not...he got himself really prepared for the fight, and I don't see it any different than how he will prepare for Machida. He knows what Machida is capable of (who doesn't), he knows Machida is very elusive and is training specifically for him just like he trained specifically for Liddell. He will train "to not get hit", and will defend himself well with anything Machida throws. He will want to make sure he is not hit after he throws, he will be covering himself well and might play the role of a counterstriker.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Mauricio Rua said:


> It's not all just about speed. In reality, it's mostly about skill (Shoguns kicks are more skillful than Rashad's.) He timed Rashad mostly because Rashad leaves himself very vulnerable to any kind of attack when he throws his so called crisp boxing punches. Shogun has tighter defense than Rashad. Back in PRIDE you would see Shogun leave himself very vulnerable when he would attack but that's just because hardly anybody would even hit him, he would always be on the offensive end. Now, Shogun has learned to defend himself when he throws(though some may call it very basic but it still works nonetheless). Just watch the Liddell fight, Shogun covers up well and moves away at the same time when Chuck is throwing and Shogun would counter very well, too. For the Liddell fight he trained with the strategy "to not get hit". He trained with new coaches and got a nutritionist and what not...he got himself really prepared for the fight, and I don't see it any different than how he will prepare for Machida. He knows what Machida is capable of (who doesn't), he knows Machida is very elusive and is training specifically for him just like he trained specifically for Liddell. He will train "to not get hit", and will defend himself well with anything Machida throws. He will want to make sure he is not hit after he throws, he will be covering himself well and might play the role of a counterstriker.


There's the problem with Shogun's "improved" defense:

1. He moves back in a straight line, this is very bad, Liddell doesn't throw kicks and doesn't look to take people down, so this worked for him. If you want to know what happens when you move back in a straight line, just as Arlovski when he fought Rogers.

2. He covers his face and only his face, leaving his entire body open for attacks. With someone like Machida, his body is going to be worn down quickly from kicks and body shots. Also, this leaves a wide opening for takedowns and sweeps, two things Machida is very tricky at doing.

3. When he does ANY attack, he almost always leaves himself open, even in the Liddell fight he did so, but he covered up AFTER the attack. Machida counters you WHILE you attack, not after. 

4. His head movement is side to side on a constant basis. Machida is a master of timing, it won't be that difficult for him to time Shogun's head movement, especially since he leaves his head wide open when he throws any punch/kick.

That's 4 basic holes that Machida can exploit in Shogun's defense. 

Shogun is an aggressive striker, if he pushes a pace, he will make all of these mistakes while chasing Machida, that's a very, very bad thing. If he decides to wait, still, his defense is not technical enough or good enough to avoid the timing that Machida has.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

Mauricio Rua said:


> It's not all just about speed. In reality, it's mostly about skill (Shoguns kicks are more skillful than Rashad's.) He timed Rashad mostly because Rashad leaves himself very vulnerable to any kind of attack when he throws his so called crisp boxing punches. Shogun has tighter defense than Rashad. Back in PRIDE you would see Shogun leave himself very vulnerable when he would attack but that's just because hardly anybody would even hit him, he would always be on the offensive end. Now, Shogun has learned to defend himself when he throws(though some may call it very basic but it still works nonetheless). Just watch the Liddell fight, Shogun covers up well and moves away at the same time when Chuck is throwing and Shogun would counter very well, too. For the Liddell fight he trained with the strategy "to not get hit". He trained with new coaches and got a nutritionist and what not...he got himself really prepared for the fight, and I don't see it any different than how he will prepare for Machida. He knows what Machida is capable of (who doesn't), he knows Machida is very elusive and is training specifically for him just like he trained specifically for Liddell. He will train "to not get hit", and will defend himself well with anything Machida throws. He will want to make sure he is not hit after he throws, he will be covering himself well and might play the role of a counterstriker.


you seem to think that shoguns knee is 100% i think otherwise his movement and defense will be greatly reduced


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## Mauricio Rua (May 27, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> There's the problem with Shogun's "improved" defense:
> 
> 1. He moves back in a straight line, this is very bad, Liddell doesn't throw kicks and doesn't look to take people down, so this worked for him. If you want to know what happens when you move back in a straight line, just as Arlovski when he fought Rogers.
> 
> ...


Yes he covers his face and only his face (he doesn't have 4 hands) but moves back at the same time. Machida the counterstriker is not going to want to chase him back. This is not Thiago SIlva who stood right in front of Machida letting himself get hit. Also, I find it hard to believe that Machida will wear him down with his leg kicks. He throws them straight from his position so that they don't get telegraphed but have no power in them. Shogun's legs are built like CroCop's, he's not going to get worn down. And Shogun does check kicks, he is not Rampage Jackson. On the contrary, I think it is he, Machida, that will get worn down by the leg kicks. He has yet to face a good Muay Thai artist like Shogun. I'm sure Shogun can land at least 50% of his kicks, even Thiago Silva landed one, Rashad landed. Machida's defense isn't so bright either. His elusiveness is what gets him where his at. Look at the way Machida's hands are positioned. His head wide open for a good head kick, maybe a straight punch. His stance leaves his legs open for kicks. But then again, it's his elusiveness that lets him punch freely. IMHO, I really do think Shogun has it in him to land a good one on Machida. A good kick might throw Machida off, you never know. As for Machida's tricky leg sweeps and judo, god I do hope Machida takes him down, Shogun is very active off of his back and is good at reversing positions and might have a better chance of winning the fight there.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Mauricio Rua said:


> Yes he covers his face and only his face (he doesn't have 4 hands) but moves back at the same time. Machida the counterstriker is not going to want to chase him back. This is not Thiago SIlva who stood right in front of Machida letting himself get hit. Also, I find it hard to believe that Machida will wear him down with his leg kicks. He throws them straight from his position so that they don't get telegraphed but have no power in them. Shogun's legs are built like CroCop's, he's not going to get worn down. And Shogun does check kicks, he is not Rampage Jackson. On the contrary, I think it is he, Machida, that will get worn down by the leg kicks. He has yet to face a good Muay Thai artist like Shogun. I'm sure Shogun can land at least 50% of his kicks, even Thiago Silva landed one, Rashad landed. Machida's defense isn't so bright either. His elusiveness is what gets him where his at. Look at the way Machida's hands are positioned. His head wide open for a good head kick, maybe a straight punch. His stance leaves his legs open for kicks. But then again, it's his elusiveness that lets him punch freely. IMHO, I really do think Shogun has it in him to land a good one on Machida. A good kick might throw Machida off, you never know. As for Machida's tricky leg sweeps and judo, god I do hope Machida takes him down, Shogun is very active off of his back and is good at reversing positions and might have a better chance of winning the fight there.


Shogun moves back in a straight line with his posture UP and his hands UP and leaves his entire body open for every attack possible. I'm not just talking about leg kicks, in fact, Machida doesn't throw many leg kicks, he fakes leg kicks and goes for the body/head. Shogun won't do well when he is getting his ribs kicked because everytime he defends he moves back in a very predictable straight line, a very easy target for someone who does more than just punch at the head.

Let me paint a picture:

Machida fakes a combo to the head, Shogun covers up and moves back in a straight line. Now Machida has Shogun's whole body to work with from here, he can trip him, kick him, etc. Shogun did this almost every single time in the Liddell fight, very, very easy to time his new defense.

Machida's stance? There's a reason why he is one of the least hit fighters in MMA. His hands are down because it lets him fake strikes better, it causes his opponent to think there is an opening when there isn't, as he leans back and the range from his opponents hands to Machida's head is longer than they expect it is. Shogun is going to kick Machida in his leg you say? You do realize Shogun leaves his entire body/face open for attack when he strikes, right? That's another hole in his defense, so as soon as he goes to kick, Machida will time it and put Shogun down in the middle of Shogun's attack, that is what Machida does, that is how he counters, he doesn't wait for AFTER the attack, he counters right before/right as you are attacking him.

Shogun has many, many holes in his defense when he is defending, and he has little to no defense at all when he is attacking, which is where he will be put down, when he is attacking and leaving himself open in a very predictable way, as his defense is exactly that, basic and predictable.

Oh, and, I also hope Machida trips Shogun down, a few takedowns and some control from the top will only make Shogun gas that much faster.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> Shogun moves back in a straight line with his posture UP and his hands UP and leaves his entire body open for every attack possible. I'm not just talking about leg kicks, in fact, Machida doesn't throw many leg kicks, he fakes leg kicks and goes for the body/head. Shogun won't do well when he is getting his ribs kicked because everytime he defends he moves back in a very predictable straight line, a very easy target for someone who does more than just punch at the head.
> 
> Let me paint a picture:
> 
> ...


props to your post oh and dont forget if it goes to the ground shogun will submit him <sarcasim> cause i seem to remember shogun getting choked out


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

When lt l is said and done it comes down to is a ko over chuck afteer a loss and a less than stellar performance against coleman enough to say that hes back to the shogun of old? 

i would have to say no a knee injury may never heal the same .

He will however only pose a threat if he catches Machida flatfooted in the middle of an attack.
And the leg kick topic i have said before he trains with A Silva so countering leg kicks should be in his training regimen all the time.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

jeffmantx said:


> When lt l is said and done it comes down to is a ko over chuck afteer a loss and a less than stellar performance against coleman enough to say that hes back to the shogun of old?
> 
> i would have to say no a knee injury may never heal the same .
> 
> ...


and there it is, machida is always flat footed in all his fights, even in the middle of his attacks.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

jcal said:


> Did you actually say machida has beatin better fighters than shogun:bye02:


yes he did, but he also said "in the octagon" so you kinda have to agree there. career wise, i'd say no.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

I really don't see Shogun winning this fight dude. I don't see him winning it anywhere. Machida has better standup, better ground game, way better clinch work and I dont think there's a chance in hell Shogun can take him down and lay one him :\


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## Mauricio Rua (May 27, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> I really don't see Shogun winning this fight dude. I don't see him winning it anywhere. Machida has better standup, better ground game, way better clinch work and I dont think there's a chance in hell Shogun can take him down and lay one him :\


There's no way of proving Machida has better ground game. Shogun trains with Maia in jiujitsu and has had a black belt for a longer time. And Machida is hardly ever in the clinch, while Shogun was the master of destroying people in the clinch. Machida likes to take people down from the clinch, not work them from there. But nevertheless again it is your opinion, I just don't understand why people are so quick to dismiss ALL of Shogun's skills and say Machida is way better at them.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

*


chilo said:



and there it is, machida is always flat footed in all his fights, even in the middle of his attacks.

Click to expand...

*I wouldnt say he plants his feet and attacks maybe when he kicks but you know what is funny hes so fast people cover up when he attacks they never commit to attacking too maybe they should try that but as far as him being flatfooted all the time thats not true he darts in attacks and darts out you have that split second to commit to attacking machida but that also leaves you open to taking punishment to try to hit him hence the tito fight so either way you have to take chances to beat Machida.

Shogun cannot train to counter or not get hit as you said in one of your earlier post hes got not be afraid of Machidas power i dont care what anyone says fighters are afraid as they always cover up when he attacks for some reason lol!! Either hes just that fast or he really does have some serious power to make people turtle up any thoughts??


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

chilo said:


> yes he did, but he also said "in the octagon" so you kinda have to agree there. career wise, i'd say no.


Yeah I missed that. and I have to agree.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

*


jcal said:



Yeah I missed that. and I have to agree.

Click to expand...

*Thank you I was like i swear i said what i said you guys had me second guessing my post just kidding!! OK heres a thought DO you think Shogun could beat Wanderle Silva now? So unclear about which fighter will show up if the Old Wanderle shows up which we havnt seen in the Ufc I say he takes it not sure why we will never know i guess but i think he would be willing to take more punishment to get inside again this is speculation!! Btw just curious they dont train together now would they be willing to fight someday?


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

I look at Shogun kinda the same way I used to look at Frank Mir after his motorcycle accident. When Mir returned he looked horrible for about 3 fights, christinson, cruz, vera, and I thought he was done. Just like Shogun his cardio was terrible cause he couldnt train properly just , IMHO i think Shogun is gonna start being impressive again, (and no im not at all implying he will beat Machida), but I do hope its a better fight than all Machidas past fights, because I do believe Shogun is a big step up from Thiago and Rashad. Second I have to take Shogun over Wandy if they fought, hes younger, hasnt taken too much damage and more versatile, wandy is becoming pretty much 1 dimensional and so is Jackson. God i love the LHW division


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## bucknkd (Jun 14, 2009)

jcal said:


> I look at Shogun kinda the same way I used to look at Frank Mir after his motorcycle accident. When Mir returned he looked horrible for about 3 fights, christinson, cruz, vera, and I thought he was done. Just like Shogun his cardio was terrible cause he couldnt train properly just , IMHO i think Shogun is gonna start being impressive again, (and no im not at all implying he will beat Machida), but I do hope its a better fight than all Machidas past fights, because I do believe Shogun is a big step up from Thiago and Rashad. Second I have to take Shogun over Wandy if they fought, hes younger, hasnt taken too much damage and more versatile, wandy is becoming pretty much 1 dimensional and so is Jackson. God i love the LHW division


Well put, I concur


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Mauricio Rua said:


> There's no way of proving Machida has better ground game. Shogun trains with Maia in jiujitsu and has had a black belt for a longer time. And Machida is hardly ever in the clinch, while Shogun was the master of destroying people in the clinch. Machida likes to take people down from the clinch, not work them from there. But nevertheless again it is your opinion, I just don't understand why people are so quick to dismiss ALL of Shogun's skills and say Machida is way better at them.


Machida just has a more active ground game (he isn't caught in a single position very much and he is rarely on his back for long) than shogun. Also by better clinch work I mean that he does what he needs to do way faster and way smoother than Shogun or he gets out immediately. Shogun won't be able to damage at all IMO. I'm not discounting Shogun's skills at all, but he's had shaky performances against Mark Coleman and Forrest. Chuck is hardly the fighter that he was before and I think Rua's big fans want to believe he's back to demolishing cats but I think it's a bit of an overstatement given Chucks status right now. In short, Rua is a damn good fighter and deserves the respect of that, but Machida is on a WHOLE other level at LHW than anyone else right now and I still see Shogun as being middle tier in the UFC (rank wise) and I'd rank Rashad over him at this point.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> Machida just has a more active ground game (he isn't caught in a single position very much and he is rarely on his back for long) than shogun. Also by better clinch work I mean that he does what he needs to do way faster and way smoother than Shogun or he gets out immediately. Shogun won't be able to damage at all IMO. I'm not discounting Shogun's skills at all, but he's had shaky performances against Mark Coleman and Forrest. Chuck is hardly the fighter that he was before and I think Rua's big fans want to believe he's back to demolishing cats but I think it's a bit of an overstatement given Chucks status right now. In short, Rua is a damn good fighter and deserves the respect of that, but Machida is on a WHOLE other level at LHW than anyone else right now and I still see Shogun as being middle tier in the UFC (rank wise) and I'd rank Rashad over him at this point.


great post all the shogun fans think hes back after 3 fights which is stretching it not saying hes not worthy of a title shot record in the ufc no marketability and great knockouts in the past boost ppv sales and thats why he gets a shot should be a nice tuneup fight for machida to fight jackson haha just kidding sorta


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## crispsteez (Jul 1, 2008)

judodude said:


> I predict Shogun will take that belt by vicious knockout and hold onto it for a loooooooooong time.
> 
> Rampage, Machida,Anderson Silva are the contenders.


*


jeffmantx said:



Apparently you have no reasons to back this up what makes you think that shogun will knock out machida?? LOL posts like this are what fanboys write not people who want to debate anyway heres what makes me think Machida can knock out shogun: I havnt seen his defense yet against a great striker he leans back too much when he defends which means his lateral movement leaves much to be desired against chuck he caught him with a left hand i will give you that but if you have someone who has great defense as Machida does you wont catch him leaning in when he throws punches like Chuck does just a thought on why shoguns defense might leave him open for a straight left hand!!

Click to expand...

*How come shatterproofs prediction held no bearing whatsoever....



shatterproof said:


> just gotta chime in to place my opinion on the record, so to speak...
> 
> Machida takes this fight 99 times out of 100. Shogun is going to get countered and KOd. that's my prediction.


*


jeffmantx said:



Good prediction I guess people think that shogun throws kicks faster than the speed of light maybe!! Btw the guy that posted above me said that he had tremendous high kicks and low kicks? I seem to remember Machida hurting Rashad pretty bad with his high kicks in their fight!! Anyone else remember that!! LOL

Click to expand...

*..but this one did?

Biased much? :confused02:


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Hey, Spoken, you want some more sugar in your tea?


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## Mauricio Rua (May 27, 2009)

crispsteez said:


> How come shatterproofs prediction held no bearing whatsoever....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As long as you say Machida wins by KO your prediction is as good as gold, if you say "Shogun has the tools to beat him, he stands a chance", they cant accept it for some reason....


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> Hey, Spoken, you want some more sugar in your tea?


Actually.. yes. I hate bitter tea...

Ouch though.. that hurt my heart.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Mauricio Rua said:


> As long as you say Machida wins by KO your prediction is as good as gold, if you say "Shogun has the tools to beat him, he stands a chance", they cant accept it for some reason....


No one said that Shogun didn't have a chance, every fighter at that level has a chance at beating Machida.

What people are saying is that he most likely will not win, regardless if he has a chance or not. Even Thiago had a chance, and no, I am not comparing Shogun to Thiago, I am saying EVERYONE has a chance, and even though Shogun's chance is higher than someone like Thiago, he will still lose.

It's just like the GSP vs. Alves fight, most see Alves having a chance, but almost everyone believes GSP will roll right on through him. The only difference between the Machida/Shogun and GSP/Alves fight is that Alves has looked great lately, and Shogun has not.

EDIT - I'll get right on the sugar, baby!


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

*


crispsteez said:



Originally Posted by judodude 
I predict Shogun will take that belt by vicious knockout and hold onto it for a loooooooooong time.

Rampage, Machida,Anderson Silva are the contenders.



..but this one did?
Originally Posted by shatterproof 
just gotta chime in to place my opinion on the record, so to speak...

Machida takes this fight 99 times out of 100. Shogun is going to get countered and KOd. that's my prediction.

Biased much? :confused02:

Click to expand...

*HEHE maybe alittle biased but not much see the other poster offered no explanation on how shogun is going to viscously knock out machida? No ones been able to hit him flush ever so that leads me to believe that that poster was just blowing smoke up his ass!!! Then again anything can happen in a fight if Shogun catches machida with some kinda wicked head kick anyone can go out I just dont see shogun having the power to knock Machida out!!


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

A one punch knockdown of Chuck doesnt all of the sudden make me or anyone else on here think that he has this tremendous power that he hasnt shown since pride!! Fair enough I think to assume.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

jeffmantx said:


> A one punch knockdown of Chuck doesnt all of the sudden make me or anyone else on here think that he has this tremendous power that he hasnt shown since pride!! Fair enough I think to assume.


Thats how I felt about Rashad, Shogun has soo much more to offer. And more than thiago and please tito too. It will be Machidas best test to date, no doubt about it.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

jeffmantx said:


> A one punch knockdown of Chuck doesnt all of the sudden make me or anyone else on here think that he has this tremendous power that he hasnt shown since pride!! Fair enough I think to assume.


 
:thumbsup: especially after Rashad did it already, and Rampage......


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## enufced904 (Jul 17, 2008)

I don't think anybody is going to be able to "exploit" Machida's weaknesses .. at least not anytime soon and it definitely won't be Shogun. He [Machida] really is on a different level. After his fight with Evans, I went back and watch as many of his past fights as I could. This dude is pretty amazing.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

jeffmantx said:


> HEHE maybe alittle biased but not much see the other poster offered *no explanation on how shogun is going to viscously knock out machida? No ones been able to hit him flush ever so that leads me to believe that that poster was just blowing smoke up his ass!!!* Then again anything can happen in a fight if Shogun catches machida with some kinda wicked head kick anyone can go out I just dont see shogun having the power to knock Machida out!!


damn here you go!








its like trying to argue with a blind person thats "seen it all".


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## Shogun_Is_Champ (Jun 17, 2007)

jeffmantx said:


> HEHE maybe alittle biased but not much see the other poster offered no explanation on how shogun is going to viscously knock out machida? No ones been able to hit him flush ever so that leads me to believe that that poster was just blowing smoke up his ass!!! Then again anything can happen in a fight if Shogun catches machida with some kinda wicked head kick anyone can go out I just dont see shogun having the power to knock Machida out!!


He offered to explanation? The other guy said that Machida was going to to Counter Ko Shogun, when Shogun has never been Ko'd. It's the exact same thing.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

Shogun_Is_Champ said:


> He offered to explanation? The other guy said that Machida was going to to Counter Ko Shogun, when Shogun has never been Ko'd. It's the exact same thing.


apparently you didnt read that i said I was alittle biased am i not allowed to be? Btw i have posted valid explanations for my opinions I would think I have also gave props to shogun on how Ithink he can win the fight. ALL is good hope we can get along lol.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

chilo said:


> damn here you go!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And the point of the picture is? Oh wait let me guess you are trying to refute what i said about him getting hit flush? I guess you are trying to tell me that was a punch that hit him flush it would help if we could see who it was? he is black though lol narrows it down to 3. Anyway you didnt elaborate on your post as the pic doesnt show alot. Hopefully you will reply as i have read your posts and I respect your opinion. Btw that could have been a glancing blow


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

jeffmantx said:


> And the point of the picture is? Oh wait let me guess you are trying to refute what i said about him getting hit flush? I guess you are trying to tell me that was a punch that hit him flush it would help if we could see who it was? he is black though lol narrows it down to 3. Anyway you didnt elaborate on your post as the pic doesnt show alot. Hopefully you will reply as i have read your posts and I respect your opinion. Btw that could have been a glancing blow


It had to be a glancing blow, look at his mouth, its not twisting off the side of his face LOL


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

jcal said:


> It had to be a glancing blow, look at his mouth, its not twisting off the side of his face LOL


i like the rashad pic after he got hit flush better lol it was wicked anyway chila needs to hook up an explanation for the photo its been along time sheesh lol jk.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

jeffmantx said:


> apparently you didnt read that i said I was alittle biased am i not allowed to be? Btw i have posted valid explanations for my opinions I would think I have also gave props to shogun on how Ithink he can win the fight. ALL is good hope we can get along lol.





jeffmantx said:


> And the point of the picture is? Oh wait let me guess you are trying to refute what i said about him getting hit flush? I guess you are trying to tell me that was a punch that hit him flush it would help if we could see who it was? he is black though lol narrows it down to 3. Anyway you didnt elaborate on your post as the pic doesnt show alot. Hopefully you will reply as i have read your posts and I respect your opinion. Btw that could have been a glancing blow


 

the picturs are irrelevant.....we are not talking about the same fighter....:thumbsup:


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> the picturs are irrelevant.....we are not talking about the same fighter....:thumbsup:


Agreed apparently we are tugging on Machidas nuts if we present facts about him then i am proud to be a nuthugger lol love it.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

jeffmantx said:


> Agreed apparently we are tugging on Machidas nuts if we present facts about him then i am proud to be a nuthugger lol love it.


its hard to argue the "facts" with you guys, you guys are being so closed minded and bias thats its not even worth arguing. you do realize Shoguns never been KO'd right?


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

chilo said:


> its hard to argue the "facts" with you guys, you guys are being so closed minded and bias thats its not even worth arguing. * you do realize Shoguns never been KO'd right?*





Shogun_Is_Champ said:


> He offered to explanation? The other guy said that Machida was going to to Counter Ko Shogun, *when Shogun has never been Ko'd*. It's the exact same thing.


Neither had Rashad or Thiago Silva, until their last fight with Lyoto. In fact, they had never been defeated, let alone KOd, something Shogun can't claim. There's a first time for everything though and Shogun has never faced anyone of Machida's caliber.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

for the Shogun fans http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuX2ggVOnqA


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## Mauricio Rua (May 27, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> Neither had Rashad or Thiago Silva, until their last fight with Lyoto. In fact, they had never been defeated, let alone KOd, something Shogun can't claim. There's a first time for everything though and Shogun has never faced anyone of Machida's caliber.


Yeah because Thiago Silva and Rashad were facing fierce powerful strikers like Shogun has in the past... yeah give me a break. The best striker Rashad had faced up until Machida was the nearly retired Chuck Liddell and Thiago faced Houston Alexander? Yeah very impressive competitors these 2 have faced...


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Mauricio Rua said:


> Yeah because Thiago Silva and Rashad were facing fierce powerful strikers like Shogun has in the past... yeah give me a break. The best striker Rashad had faced up until Machida was the nearly retired Chuck Liddell and Thiago faced Houston Alexander? Yeah very impressive competitors these 2 have faced...


 
which will make it sting even more when your boy loses to him.....

The reality is nonwe of us know whats gonna happen and we all are just speculating which is fine but, there is a long time between now and when they fight and prety much this thread isnt gonna die till then....

Then there will be a "I told you so thread" right after for the respective winner in which i will be pulling quotes from all you shogun fans and posting them on a page so you can see how wrong you all were......

lol:thumbsup:


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## Mauricio Rua (May 27, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> which will make it sting even more when your boy loses to him.....
> 
> The reality is nonwe of us know whats gonna happen and we all are just speculating which is fine but, there is a long time between now and when they fight and prety much this thread isnt gonna die till then....
> 
> ...


If it's the other way around, then you would have to be putting up your own quotes. Especially all the ones that say "Machida cant be hit"


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Mauricio Rua said:


> If it's the other way around, then you would have to be putting up your own quotes. Especially all the ones that say "Machida cant be hit"


 
I dont remember posting he cant be hit but if I did I'll take your word for it.......:thumbsup:

And no i wont be pulling my own quotes as Im syre there is a Shogun fan or two that will prob take care of that.......Im cool with it just as long as no one neg reps me with some dumb shit like "your an idiot and I was right"

As far as if he were to lose...i would not be fine with that but would accept it and also give the Shogun fans their respect for being correct......

Regardless of whether he wins or loses....I will always be a Machida fan.......:thumbsup:


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Mauricio Rua said:


> Yeah because Thiago Silva and Rashad were facing fierce powerful strikers like Shogun has in the past... yeah give me a break. The best striker Rashad had faced up until Machida was the nearly retired Chuck Liddell and Thiago faced Houston Alexander? Yeah very impressive competitors these 2 have faced...


That nearly retired Chuck is also the only legit win that Shogun has since coming to the UFC. Unless you count a wheeze fest against 10 years past retirement Mark Coleman. His record from PRIDE doesn't mean as much, because he hasn't shown any of that game in the UFC yet and has looked terrible.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Liddellianenko said:


> That nearly retired Chuck is also the only legit win that Shogun has since coming to the UFC. Unless you count a wheeze fest against 10 years past retirement Mark Coleman. His record from PRIDE doesn't mean as much, because he hasn't shown any of that game in the UFC yet and has looked terrible.


I like that " A wheezefest" thats great But I heard hes running again ( A mile 3 times a week and hes turning 15 min miles. LOl I really hope his cardio improves, ill bet it will.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

*


chilo said:



its hard to argue the "facts" with you guys, you guys are being so closed minded and bias thats its not even worth arguing. you do realize Shoguns never been KO'd right?

Click to expand...

*Ok now thats not a fair post as I have debated with you over the past week and have been very respectful no need to call me close minded not cool.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

jcal said:


> for the Shogun fans http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuX2ggVOnqA


Ok I watched this video and one thing comes to mind sloppy wild swing for the fences striking agreed? I hope he tightens up his defense and straightens out his punches. Thats the thing that could cause him to get Tkod btw none of us said Machida couldnt get hit i have said hes never been hit flush which to me means rocked hit square in the face and dazed to clairify my idea of flush.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

jeffmantx said:


> Ok I watched this video and one thing comes to mind sloppy wild swing for the fences striking agreed? I hope he tightens up his defense and straightens out his punches. Thats the thing that could cause him to get Tkod btw none of us said Machida couldnt get hit i have said hes never been hit flush which to me means rocked hit square in the face and dazed to clairify my idea of flush.


Totally agreed and alot of his fighting in pride cannot be used at all in the ufc, kicking downed opponents. I was just watching it this morning and thought Id post it, its unusual to see Rampage get totally tooled. I hope its gonna keep the "lets go shogun" thread going. lol


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

jcal said:


> Totally agreed and alot of his fighting in pride cannot be used at all in the ufc, kicking downed opponents. I was just watching it this morning and thought Id post it, its unusual to see Rampage get totally tooled. I hope its gonna keep the "lets go shogun" thread going. lol


Rampage wasn't nearly as good back then as he is now, Shogun wouldn't have that kind of a fight. He could win, of course, but he wouldn't pick Rampage apart again like that.

Shogun of PRIDE is a 3 year old dog that has been changed over these last few years. Shogun of PRIDE had a few things going for him:

1. A ring where he could cut off people and put them against the ropes and use his muay thai. The ring also allows for a wild striker like Shogun to have more of an advantage.

2. Stomps to a downed opponent.

3. Knees on the ground.

Now, the last two can't be used as an excuse for his fights in the UFC, as the situation hasn't come up that "if he could stop, he would have won that fight", it is just something to think about.

The ring, however, is true. He is in a cage with a lot more space and no corners to back his opponents into. So, his wild, looping, sloppy striking doesn't work as well against top strikers as he doesn't have a corner to back them into. If you can find space to move, the space to counter, then you can pick Shogun apart from the outside, cutting through his almost complete lack of defense when being aggressive and his basic, simple defense when he is defending.

The reason why Machida has such a high chance striking in this fight is because not only is Machida a high level striker himself, but he's a counter-striker that has learned the space in the cage and has an amazing ability to use that space to counter and move. Against a guy like Shogun, who is an aggressive striker who leaves himself open and who also has a defensive game that can be timed easily, Machida SHOULD, by all logic and from what we have seen in the past, be able to put Shogun down as he is making his many mistakes striking.

MMA logic has almost always stated that an aggressive, loopy striker who throws wild punches, will be put down by a fast, skilled, talented counter-striker who has amazing timing. 

Given that Shogun also still has some questions that have not been answered yet, such as 'will his cardio be better?', 'will we see the same fighter from PRIDE?', etc, this should be an easy fight to call, looking from a striking stance.

Ground game is different, as Shogun is really good there. However, first you have to get Machida down, which is no easy task. If you somehow do get him down, Machida is also a legit BJJ black belt who has shown good sweeps and control on the ground, so it's not a "If Shogun gets him down, it's over" debate, it's a "IF, IF Shogun gets him down, will he be able to do anything there?" debate.

Anyways, Shogun is a great fighter, he'll do well in this division if he can get his cardio up, but it's hard to see a sloppy striker who is aggressive and has weak defense defeat a pin-point counter-striker who is looking amazing, who also has a good ground game to protect himself if he does get taken down.


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> Rampage wasn't nearly as good back then as he is now, Shogun wouldn't have that kind of a fight. He could win, of course, but he wouldn't pick Rampage apart again like that.
> 
> Shogun of PRIDE is a 3 year old dog that has been changed over these last few years. Shogun of PRIDE had a few things going for him:
> 
> ...


Very good post all logical points ok lets give some love to Shogun so that we dont sound biased his adv are 

1 Very gifted striker if he gets ahold of you he can do some damage in the clinch.


2 Very young but has fought some world class opponents in his career. 

3 Incredible heart he showed that against forest and coleman even though he was gassed he kept comming foward. 

Now the only real question is my prediction. I just dont think that 3 fights in the ufc is enough to beat Machida whos 7-0 in the ufc and all were dominating performances. It would have been better for rampage to fight Machida to give Shogun more time to regain his cardio. 

pls discuss


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

jeffmantx said:


> Very good post all logical points ok lets give some love to Shogun so that we dont sound biased his adv are
> 
> 1 Very gifted striker if he gets ahold of you he can do some damage in the clinch.
> 
> ...


I dont see Shogun winning this, I just like the matchup. Norway 1 said Chutebox fighters probably have the worst style to fight Machida and I agree completely with him. I just hope its a good fight, id really like to see Machida get tested cause nobody has even came close yet. And 10 months ago I was debating with cold call about Machida, I thought he sucked, but all I knew was the Tito fight, I knew nothing else about him, man was I wrong. I didnt think he was aggresive enough to go all the way to the top, then Ive since realized you dont have to be agressive if yoour timing is like Machidas


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## jeffmantx (Jun 19, 2009)

jcal said:


> I dont see Shogun winning this, I just like the matchup. Norway 1 said Chutebox fighters probably have the worst style to fight Machida and I agree completely with him. I just hope its a good fight, id really like to see Machida get tested cause nobody has even came close yet. And 10 months ago I was debating with cold call about Machida, I thought he sucked, but all I knew was the Tito fight, I knew nothing else about him, man was I wrong. I didnt think he was aggresive enough to go all the way to the top, then Ive since realized you dont have to be agressive if yoour timing is like Machidas


True the only fighter that comes to mind is maybe Vera hes a huge lhw and has some nasty reach could be interesting but prob wouldnt happen unless machida loses or vera starts tearing it up.


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## crispsteez (Jul 1, 2008)

jeffmantx said:


> Very good post all logical points ok lets give some love to Shogun so that we dont sound biased his adv are
> 
> 1 Very gifted striker if he gets ahold of you he can do some damage in the clinch.
> 
> ...


This.

After Lyoto dispatched of Rashad, I figured he'd hold on to the belt for a long time and that the only fighter he wouldn't completely tool would be Shogun. Needless to say, I didn't expect them to make Shogun his next fight. At this point, there's too many unknowns with Shogun and I was at least hoping he'd get one or two more fights to further acclimate himself with the octagon and to make sure his cardio was in check. I just think this fight is happening way too soon, but i guess since Rampage is fighting Rashad, they really didn't have many contenders to choose from.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> *Rampage wasn't nearly as good back then as he is now,* _*Shogun wouldn't have that kind of a fight. He could win, of course, but he wouldn't pick Rampage apart again like that.*_
> 
> Shogun of PRIDE is a 3 year old dog that has been changed over these last few years. Shogun of PRIDE had a few things going for him:
> 
> ...


actually rampage was prolly better back in his pride days or i should say really hasn't changed much as you guys put it out to be. can't say his boxing skills or 10x better cause who has he faught that he truly showed it? not chuck and wanderlei. both those fights ended quick with only a few punches thrown. dan? still looked the same, only without any slams. forrest? he got tooled by forrest. /shrug.

as for the fight with shogun, shogun didn't pick him apart... he dominated rampage from start to finish.

ok, so no kicks and knees to downed opponents, but now he can use elbows. he used them in the forrest fight and spit forrest face with them.

how do you know his sloopy loopy punches aren't going to work well in the cage against top level strikers? what fights are you watching that its failed him so far?



> *
> MMA logic has almost always stated that an aggressive, loopy striker who throws wild punches, will be put down by a fast, skilled, talented counter-striker who has amazing timing. *


tell me you didn't just pull that out of your arse? this is the same mumbo jumbo everyone said about his fight with chuck.... look what happend. and dont write chuck off so soon, cause if you do, im gonna expect you to say the same thing for machida.

i've liked machida... all the way back when all of you called him boring and didn't deserve a title shot, and ill still support him when he loses. i just know its gonna be a great fight and im not quick to write either fighter off, im just going with shogun only cause i've followed him and appreciate his performances alot more.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

chilo said:


> actually rampage was prolly better back in his pride days or i should say really hasn't changed much as you guys put it out to be. can't say his boxing skills or 10x better cause who has he faught that he truly showed it? not chuck and wanderlei. both those fights ended quick with only a few punches thrown. dan? still looked the same, only without any slams. forrest? he got tooled by forrest. /shrug.
> 
> as for the fight with shogun, shogun didn't pick him apart... he dominated rampage from start to finish.
> 
> ...


Rampage has improved since his Pride days, it is very clear that he has. Your examples where Chuck and Wanderlei, well, He knocked Liddell out in the first few minutes, then he knocked out Wanderlei, a guy who beat him twice, again, in the first few minutes. That's two KO's over a guy who picked him apart twice and to a guy he couldn't knock out before. 

I never said no knees or stomps to a downed opponent was a problem yet, in fact, I said point blank that it has NOT been shown to be a problem yet.

I said his sloppy and looping punches aren't going to win against fast, technical counter-strikers. Top level strikers will give him some fits as well, as he has really weak defense when being aggressive.

My post about basic logic that a FAST, technical counter-striker with the ability to have a lot of space and great timing will give someone like Shogun lots of trouble. Chuck is not that type of fighter.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

jeffmantx said:


> Very good post all logical points ok lets give some love to Shogun so that we dont sound biased his adv are
> 
> 1 Very gifted striker if he gets ahold of you he can do some damage in the clinch.
> 
> ...


Shogun showed heart in the Coleman fight? I could not disagree more, as somebody who used to be a fan of Shogun that is the fight that his complete lack of heart in turned me against in, he had that omaplata forever in the second and insetead of digging down and ending the fight he just sat there looked at the clock and ran it down, pathetic. Thats like using the Ray Mercer fight as an example of Tim Sylvia having good striking.


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## LCRaiders (Apr 7, 2008)

It would be a very entertaining fight if Shogun gets in cardio in check but i can't see him nor anyone beating Machida and his style at the moment.


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