# All-Time P4P Top 35 Ranking



## neki12 (Dec 25, 2012)

My list of best All Time fighters in the history of MMA:

1. Anderson Silva (1142)
2. Georges St. Pierre (1118)
3. Fedor Emelianenko (1080)
4. Matt Hughes (988)
5. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (945)
6. Chuck Liddell (943)
7. Dan Henderson (920)
8. B.J. Penn (911)
9. Wanderlei Silva (905)
10. Bas Rutten (889)
11. Randy Couture (860)
12. Quinton Jackson (853)
13. Tito Ortiz (818)
14. Jose Aldo (801)
15. Mauricio Rua (795)
16. Jon Jones (790)
17. Takanori Gomi (786)
18. Lyoto Machida (774)
19. Frank Shamrock (763)
20. Mirko Filipovic (749)
21. Masakatsu Funaki (741)
22. Urijah Faber (738)
23. Dominick Cruz (733)
24. Frankie Edgar (728)
25. Rich Franklin (728)
26. Rashad Evans (724)
27. Yuki Kondo (723)
28. Junior dos Santos (706)
29. Josh Barnett (701)
30. Ricardo Arona (690)
31. Gilbert Melendez (685)
32. Nate Marquardt (683)
33. Ken Shamrock (682)
34. Cain Velasquez (679)
35. Benson Henderson (678)

This ranking is based on a score (in brackets) that represents overall career achievement.

What do you guys think?


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## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

How did you determine these numerical values? Without a proper explanation we can only label these as arbitrary.

Aside from that I agree with the list for the most part. I don't really agree with Randy Couture or BJ Penn being on there since they are hugely overrated fighters who have been gifted many title fights. Same goes with Frank Mir (Who I'm somewhat surprised isn't on this list.)

The person that really shocks me is Yuki Kondo.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

neki12 said:


> 22. Urijah Faber (738)
> 23. Dominick Cruz (733)


What the **** is this?!


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## neki12 (Dec 25, 2012)

BWoods said:


> How did you determine these numerical values? Without a proper explanation we can only label these as arbitrary.
> 
> Aside from that I agree with the list for the most part. I don't really agree with Randy Couture or BJ Penn being on there since they are hugely overrated fighters who have been gifted many title fights. Same goes with Frank Mir (Who I'm somewhat surprised isn't on this list.)
> 
> The person that really shocks me is Yuki Kondo.


This All-Time ranking is based on the score that we calculate (All Time Total).
There is formula and a detailed explanation on All Time Rankings formula.

You can also see a complete list (500+ fighters) on All Time Rankings List 
There is much more there, but if you want I can copy some of that here.
It is just difficult to put a big table into a text like this (and you cannot sort).

Yuki Kondo was ranked #1 in LHW from 1997-1998.
From 1996 to 2001 he was always ranked top 10 LHW.
And that includes his time in UFC.


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## Crester (Apr 5, 2009)

I don't disagree with your #1 pick and all of the fighters you picked are solid fighters. 

I'm not sure if I agree with the order tho. It's hard to compare fighters from different generations... because the sport changes and athletesare continuously advancing. 

Like Royce Gracie destroyed everybody regardless of size in his generation... but if you took Royce in his prime and made him fight today... he probably wouldn't have anywhere near as much success.


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## neki12 (Dec 25, 2012)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> What the **** is this?!


This is All-Time ranking, not Current Ranking.

Maybe this graph might help.










Uriah was dominant for longer period than Dominick.

We are adding additional points each quarter (every 3 months) to this score. 
So, since Dominick is ranked higher than Faber, he will get more points next quarter and he will pass Faber on All-Time list.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Very well then.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

Cruz doesn't deserve any points until he fights again!


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## neki12 (Dec 25, 2012)

El Bresko said:


> Cruz doesn't deserve any points until he fights again!


This doesn't work like that.
Details are on the website, but I can put few explanations here. 

Score that is used here is called AllTimeTotal (ATT) and represents overall career achievement.


Following formula is used:


AllTimeTotal = CareerScore_End + CareerScore_Max 
+ Dominance + Quarterly_Historical_Ranking_Count 
+ BestRankings + MaxScore + ChampPoints


How is how those different components change in time?

1. PointsBestRankings and MaxScore are the highest achievements, and once you reach them you don’t lose them.

2. CareerScore_Max also stays the same after maximum is reached, but if you start losing fights, your CareerScore_End is slipping.

3. Every quarter end (3 month period) fighters that are among best fighters get additional Dominance and Quarterly_Historical_Ranking_Count points. If somebody retires at the top, he will keep receiving additional points for few more quarters.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

you should put all the details here, MMAForum is not a shameless advertising tool


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

El Bresko said:


> Cruz doesn't deserve any points until he fights again!


HOW DARE YOU!

First ever UFC Bantamweight Champ, Final WEC Bantamweight Champ. Wins over Faber, Mighty Mouse, Benavidez x2, Bowles, and Jorgensen!

BW GOAT Breh!


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## neki12 (Dec 25, 2012)

El Bresko said:


> you should put all the details here, MMAForum is not a shameless advertising tool


OK then.
Here are few more details about formula:

Quarterly_Historical_Ranking_Count
This score is based on the number of times (from quarterly historical rankings) fighter was

- ranked in Pound for Pound rankings as: top1P4P, top5P4P, top8P4P, top20P4P

- ranked in Weight Category rankings as: top1Ctg, top3Ctg, top5Ctg, top10Ctg

- having Current Score more than: 800 points, 700 points, 600 points, 400 points



BestRankings

Score for the best rankings (combined P4P and Category rankings) achieved in the career.

If someone was at some point ranked #1 in Category, he gets 28 points.

For #1 P4P ranking you get 32 points and in addition to that you have 28 points for #1 Ctg – for maximum total of 60 points.

For #1 Ctg and #3 P4P you get total of 52 points (32 Ctg + 20 P4P).

For #3 Ctg and #10 P4P you get total of 34 points (24 Ctg + 10 P4P).

For #11 Ctg and #66 P4P you get total of 14 points (12 Ctg + 2 P4P).



MaxScore is calculated from the maximum historical Current Score.



ChampPoints represents points from the championship fights.


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## neki12 (Dec 25, 2012)

And here are some numbers behind all this:

# Fighter ATT Ctg first Fight F W L max CS best P4P best Ctg top10 
1 Anderson Silva 1142.2 185 1997-06-25 37 33 4 995.5 1 1 43
2 Georges St. Pierre 1118.5 170 2002-01-25 25 23 2 977.5 1 1 40
3 Fedor Emelianenko 1080.9 265 2000-05-21 39 34 4 950.0 1 1 40
4 Matt Hughes 988.1 170 1998-01-01 54 45 9 861.9 2 1 50
5 Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira 945.8 265 1999-06-12 43 34 7 829.1 1 1 51
6 Chuck Liddell 943.4 205 1998-05-15 29 21 8 983.9 1 1 33
7 Dan Henderson 920.6 185 1997-06-15 37 29 8 830.8 1 1 52
8 B.J. Penn 911.0 155 2001-05-04 27 16 9 897.5 1 1 45
9 Wanderlei Silva 905.4 185 1996-11-01 48 34 12 860.6 1 1 39
10 Bas Rutten 889.5 265 1993-09-21 33 28 4 830.1 1 1 28
11 Randy Couture 860.6 205 1997-05-30 30 19 11 829.2 1 1 45
12 Quinton Jackson 853.8 205 1999-11-13 42 32 10 930.8 1 1 38
13 Tito Ortiz 818.7 205 1997-05-30 28 16 11 807.8 1 1 37
14 Jose Aldo 801.5 145 2004-08-10 22 21 1 878.8 3 1 19
15 Mauricio Rua 795.7 205 2002-11-08 28 21 7 869.4 2 1 30
16 Jon Jones 790.0 205 2008-04-12 18 17 1 948.6 2 1 10
17 Takanori Gomi 786.5 155 1998-11-27 43 34 8 818.9 4 1 38
18 Lyoto Machida 774.1 205 2003-05-02 21 18 3 900.7 2 1 28
19 Frank Shamrock 763.2 185 1994-12-16 35 23 10 745.8 1 1 30
20 Mirko Filipovic 749.7 265 2001-08-19 40 27 10 876.0 2 1 24


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Meh, I respect the work you put into it. I'm not arguing any numbers or formulas you are using.

But just by the eye test and history I put Dan Henderson higher and Rampage lower. Also not sure why Ken Shamrock makes it but Royce doesn't?


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Meh, I respect the work you put into it. I'm not arguing any numbers or formulas you are using.
> 
> But just by the eye test and history I put Dan Henderson higher and Rampage lower. Also not sure why Ken Shamrock makes it but Royce doesn't?


Because it's Frank who should be much higher. The biggest issue I would have is this is a GOAT list not p4p. Tito doesn't belong on a p4p list, Tito is sub.500 against real LHW's.

As for who is the p4p greatest...I think Matt Hughes and his wins over BJ and GSP rank him as #1. You say Anderson Silva is the best p4p but look at the list he's only beaten 1 other guy (Dan Henderson) on the list.

I think p4p I would go
1. Hughes
2. Fedor
3. Henderson
4. GSP
5. Couture


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## neki12 (Dec 25, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Meh, I respect the work you put into it. I'm not arguing any numbers or formulas you are using.
> 
> But just by the eye test and history I put Dan Henderson higher and Rampage lower. Also not sure why Ken Shamrock makes it but Royce doesn't?


Actually I do have Royce on the list, just is a little bit lower:

33. Ken Shamrock - ( 682 ) 
34. Cain Velasquez - ( 679 ) 
35. Benson Henderson - ( 678 ) 
36. Renato Sobral - ( 674 ) 
37. Hayato Sakurai - ( 668 ) 
38. Jake Shields - ( 667 ) 
39. Vitor Belfort - ( 657 ) 
40. Paulo Filho - ( 655 ) 
41. Royce Gracie - ( 652 ) 

Now, you can argue that Royce should be higher.
I say, he was dominant in 1994, but most of the fighters in those first few UFC tournaments had no name and no skills.
Ken had much better competition in Pancrase and later in UFC.

But it is close - 30 points difference.
This career graph might help here:










Ken had higher peaks and a longer career, but overall their historical career line looks similar.


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

Oh man I hope they never come up with a (PER) for MMA like they did for the NBA. John Hollinger created it when Lebron James was in his third season to basically show how great of a player he was. It's such a flawed stat though.

Here is link to Player Efficiency Rating (PER) if anyone cares...

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...m3YikaAGpIiz37ZGpxlcw&bvm=bv.1355534169,d.cGE


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