# Most Overachieving MMA Fighter in UFC



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Which fighter do you guys think is the most overachieving meaning there skills were not as good as the best fighters but the accomplishments were impressive.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Quinton Rampage Jackson. I never thought Rampage was that good at anything but he hits hard and that got him a long way.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Quinton Rampage Jackson. I never thought Rampage was that good at anything but he hits hard and that got him a long way.


lol never taught about rampage if u really think about ur right. But I had Rich Franklin as the most overachieving.


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## KillingRoad89 (Jul 28, 2009)

forest griffin. He doesnt have the best skills but he has the heart of a champion and it took him a long way.

He does have a great ground game that he never uses though.


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## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

KillingRoad89 said:


> forest griffin. He doesnt have the best skills but he has the heart of a champion and it took him a long way.
> 
> He does have a great ground game that he never uses though.


This, how he became champion is a bit beyond me.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Biowza said:


> This, how he became champion is a bit beyond me.


Forrest is #2, how did he become champion? By beating the #1. He out struck and out grappled Rampage.


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## KillingRoad89 (Jul 28, 2009)

Toxic said:


> Forrest is #2, how did he become champion? By beating the #1. He out struck and out grappled Rampage.


I wouldn't say out struck. But he did throw rampage off because he kept coming forward and taking big shots.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

He picked Rampage apart in that fight, Jackson kept looking for the big knock out shot and when he couldn't find it he found himself on the losing end of a decision and rightfully so.


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## KillingRoad89 (Jul 28, 2009)

well i guess he did out strike him then. Rampage had the harder shots and forest had more connect %. Its been a while since i watched the fight.


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## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

Well he beat Rampage, which by your own account is the "Most overachieving MMA fighter in the UFC"


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Forrest for sure, he's talented and has skills but compared to other guys in the UFC he's probably shouldn't be near the top 10. He's got great heart and cardio though, probably the reason he's as good as he is.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Is aint forrest Griffen more skilled than Rich Franklin?


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

marcthegame said:


> Is aint forrest Griffen more skilled than Rich Franklin?


I would say they are close but your comparing apples and oranges, Franklin is in the twilight of his career while Forrest should be in his prime. The sport has evolved so much that being as good as the guys were 5 years ago just isn't good enough.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> Is aint forrest Griffen more skilled than Rich Franklin?


Rich isn't in the top 10......Forrest is top 5.


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

hmmm Diego Sanchez?


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Why people are saying Rampage (Who has really good boxing and has beaten some great fighters with his striking and wrestling) and Forrest Griffin (Who has a really good ground game and solid striking, not to mention great work ethic), I have no clue.

The real answers are Kimbo Slice and Houston Alexander. Hell, throw in Thiago Silva, who just isn't that good, yet everyone thinks he's a top LHW.


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## KillingRoad89 (Jul 28, 2009)

yeah but kimbo and houston havn't overachieved.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Damone said:


> Why people are saying Rampage (Who has really good boxing and has beaten some great fighters with his striking and wrestling) and Forrest Griffin (Who has a really good ground game and solid striking, not to mention great work ethic), I have no clue.
> 
> The real answers are Kimbo Slice and Houston Alexander. Hell, throw in Thiago Silva, who just isn't that good, yet everyone thinks he's a top LHW.


What have Kimbo and Houston Alexander accomplished? Its not who is overrated its who has accomplished more than they should have with there abilities.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Tim Sylvia wins it in my book. 

The guy had a long reach and a good jab and he turned that into a UFC HW championship.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Toxic said:


> I would say they are close but your comparing apples and oranges, Franklin is in the twilight of his career while Forrest should be in his prime. The sport has evolved so much that being as good as the guys were 5 years ago just isn't good enough.


That is true but then again Rich has only lost to great fighters such as Machida,Anderson,Henderson,Vitor...Aside from those who are superior in skills I think Rich can hang in there and beat anyone even tho he may be well below there skills level. Like as good as rich is or was i was impress when he won against Wandy who I had winning and killing Rich in the process.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Toxic said:


> What have Kimbo and Houston Alexander accomplished? Its not who is overrated its who has accomplished more than they should have with there abilities.


Houston has been a mutiple time UFC main card stay and fan favorite.

Kimbo Slice is a huge draw.

Both have achieved quite a lot, given that they are both not very good.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

Toto Ortiz maybe. He's not very good and he was champion a long time. Of course the competition wasn't as good back then.


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## KillingRoad89 (Jul 28, 2009)

Damone said:


> Houston has been a mutiple time UFC main card stay and fan favorite.
> 
> Kimbo Slice is a huge draw.
> 
> Both have achieved quite a lot, given that they are both not very good.


Still doesn't mean they have over achieved. They have never been champions. Houston has a pretty rough record. Kimbo doesn't have the greatest fighting record yet.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Damone said:


> Houston has been a mutiple time UFC main card stay and fan favorite.
> 
> Kimbo Slice is a huge draw.
> 
> Both have achieved quite a lot, given that they are both not very good.


I don't think u can compare these guys to real underdog fighters. Yes there fan favourites but then when you have a guy who learn MMA from videos and winning and dominated the MW division for long time. What has kimbo or Huston achieved? Hell if Mike Tyson at 50 enters the ufc he would be a bigger draw than kimbo.


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

Indestructibl3 said:


> hmmm Diego Sanchez?


You are BJ Penn? 

I have Randy Couture as the biggest overachiever. He has no crazy skill or talent. He started MMA at 33 and still compete at very high level, multiple champ, legend of the sport.

His work ethic and heart get him where he is. I think thats what exatly tells term - overachiever.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Fine, since we are listing dudes who actually "achieved" something, I'll mention Royce Gracie.

A balding dude, who wore pajamas, had embarrassingly awful striking and sloppy jiu jitsu. Was lucky to be out there against TKD teachers and firemen. His jiu jitsu wasn't very good from a technical stand point, and was lucky that Rorion cherry picked dudes for him.


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## KillingRoad89 (Jul 28, 2009)

Atilak said:


> You are BJ Penn?
> 
> I have Randy Couture as the biggest overachiever. He has no crazy skill or talent. He started MMA at 33 and still compete at very high level, multiple champ, legend of the sport.
> 
> His work ethic and heart get him where he is. I think thats what exatly tells term - overachiever.


His Greco-roman wrestling background also got him there too


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Atilak said:


> You are BJ Penn?
> 
> I have Randy Couture as the biggest overachiever. He has no crazy skill or talent. He started MMA at 33 and still compete at very high level, multiple champ, legend of the sport.
> 
> His work ethic and heart get him where he is. I think thats what exatly tells term - overachiever.


Randy's Wrestling is one of the best, he might be overrated but the man skills are legit. In comparison his wrestling ability is better or equal to that of Brock Lesnar or anyone who has fought in the ufc.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

Atilak said:


> You are BJ Penn?
> 
> I have Randy Couture as the biggest overachiever. He has no crazy skill or talent. He started MMA at 33 and still compete at very high level, multiple champ, legend of the sport.
> 
> His work ethic and heart get him where he is. I think thats what exatly tells term - overachiever.


He has amazing wrestling and great sub defense. Sometimes great wrestling alone can be too much for fighters to handle. I bet there are many olympic wrestlers who can beat some decent UFC fighters by laying on them for 3 rounds.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

Damone said:


> Fine, since we are listing dudes who actually "achieved" something, I'll mention Royce Gracie.
> 
> A balding dude, who wore pajamas, had embarrassingly awful striking and sloppy jiu jitsu. Was lucky to be out there against TKD teachers and firemen. His jiu jitsu wasn't very good from a technical stand point, and was lucky that Rorion cherry picked dudes for him.


lol now u went to far, yes gracie would get killed now a days due to the evolution of the sports. Gracie skills were outstanding at that time and he did won and I don't think anyone could beat Gracie from 93-95.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Forrest Griffin. I honestly can't think of anyone better fitting than him. You don't look at Forrest Griffin and say "He's amazing at ______." He just has a lot of heart.


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

AlphaDawg said:


> Forrest Griffin. I honestly can't think of anyone better fitting than him. You don't look at Forrest Griffin and say "He's amazing at ______." He just has a lot of heart.


Forrest Griffin. I honestly can't think of anyone better fitting than him. You don't look at Forrest Griffin and say "He's amazing at BJJ as he has a black belt." He just has a lot of heart.

Rich Franklin. I honestly can't think of anyone better fitting than him. You don't look at Rich Franklin and say "He's amazing at ______." He just has a lot of heart.


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## kujo45 (Apr 21, 2008)

JimmyJames said:


> Tim Sylvia wins it in my book.
> 
> The guy had a long reach and a good jab and he turned that into a UFC HW championship.


Yeah, I hated him soooo much for being an ugly, unathletic, untalented oaf; who's only advantage was a retardedly long jab. This was the dark age of the ufc heavyweight division; as soon as any sort of talent reappeared (big nog and randy:thumb02: ) he was tooled like a chump.

And now, sort of ironically, i feel sorry for the guy. Apparentely, his camp always picked on him (mainly jens pulver), he turned out to be a softie who got his feelings hurt a lot. and in hindsight, everybody hated him; i've never met a single tim sylvia fan.


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## Can.Opener (Apr 8, 2009)

Tim Sylvia.

His skillset included being tall with a jab.
2 x UFC HW Champ.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

marcthegame said:


> Forrest Griffin. I honestly can't think of anyone better fitting than him. You don't look at Forrest Griffin and say "He's amazing at BJJ as he has a black belt." He just has a lot of heart.
> 
> Rich Franklin. I honestly can't think of anyone better fitting than him. You don't look at Rich Franklin and say "He's amazing at ______." He just has a lot of heart.


Forrest is a brown belt, but okay. And a black belt doesn't really mean you're amazing, Rashad has a BJJ black belt.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

Toxic said:


> He picked Rampage apart in that fight, Jackson kept looking for the big knock out shot and when he couldn't find it he found himself on the losing end of a decision and rightfully so.


if i remember correctly, didn't forrest almost get knocked out twice in that fight? both times saved by the bell?


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

chilo said:


> if i remember correctly, didn't forrest almost get knocked out twice in that fight? both times saved by the bell?


I think he got saved the second time. When Forrest got knocked down in the first, I think he recovered. I might have it wrong, but I'm pretty sure Forrest recovered once and got saved once.


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## The505Butcher (Jul 30, 2009)

This is a difficult question for me to answer. Randy has a lot of losses on his record and still is considered one of the greatest MMA fighters of all time. He is old and keeps coming back to fight people like Brock just for sh*ts. 

Forrest is good for all the reasons previously listed.

I am going to get a lot of crap for this one but please listen to me all the way through before you go crazy on me. Skill wise he is the greatest but in a lot of his fights Fedor confuses me. I mean his stand up usually consists of two punches a left and a right hook. He gets hit a lot in his fights and just does not seem to get Knocked out. He his ground submission while he is great on them are not amazingly difficult. He is a short pudgy man for his weight class. I mean you look at Fedor and not know anythingabout him and I would not think anything of him. But I hear his record and he looked at me I would piss myself. He is considered the greatest fighter of all time by a lot of people even though a lot of people think he is not fighting the greatest competition as proved by his next fight being against Buentello.(last i heard) Don't get mad at me I just wanted to throw this out there to see what other people think.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

Rashad? He won the TUF as a super small heavyweight with nothing but wrestling, then went undefeated to win and won the belt in the most stacked division. That's a lot.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Spoken812 said:


> Rashad? He won the TUF as a super small heavyweight with nothing but wrestling, then went undefeated to win and won the belt in the most stacked division. That's a lot.


Hehehehe..........hehehehe.....a little biased?


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## TheNinja (Dec 10, 2008)

1.Chris Leben..Won a bunch a fights in a row due to his Iron Chin..Even beat Cote, But then met Anderson Silva

2. Forrest...He beat an out of shape Shogun Rua, questionable descion over Rampage..then got KTFO by Rashad and Anderson

3. Rashad Evans..Undefeated..Could hardly get past Bisping, Was losing the Forrest fight until he Knocked him out, then got lit like a christmas tree vs Machida

4. Tank Abbott..This dude got way to much attention...He threw a haymaker and gassed out after 60 seconds...And people loved him and he still gets paid to this day..to lose


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Timmy wins there isn't any way to dispute it but honorable mentions for Rashad, Forrest, and Tito. Rampage doesn't qualify he has better boxing than everyone at LHW the most stacked division from a striking standpoint in the UFC and good wrestling. 

Over achievers are guys who beat people with more skill than them via heart, gameplans, or luck not guys who suck at gameplans and get by on their skills which is the category Rampage falls into.


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## tasshal (Oct 1, 2006)

bj penn. started training in 1997, won the mundials in 2000,ufc ww champ 2004, ufc lw champion january 2008.Plus, he has fought from lw to lhw. that is considered overachieving i think.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

How about Royce Gracie? Nowadays considered "not actually that good", but he's won the early UFCs and is considered a legend.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

marcthegame said:


> lol now u went to far, yes gracie would get killed now a days due to the evolution of the sports. Gracie skills were outstanding at that time and he did won and I don't think anyone could beat Gracie from 93-95.


No, Royce is an excellent choice. His point was not just that he would get killed now (which he would) but that even then he wasn't that good, he just got to fight a ton of guys who knew absolutely nothing about grappling. If he'd had to fight any decent wrestlers he'd have lost even then. As the other poster pointed out the Gracies were involved in running the early UFC's and made sure Royce didn't get matched up against big wrestlers.


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## Biowza (May 22, 2007)

tasshal said:


> bj penn. started training in 1997, won the mundials in 2000,ufc ww champ 2004, ufc lw champion january 2008.Plus, he has fought from lw to lhw. that is considered overachieving i think.


I don't think you understand the point of this thread.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

kujo45 said:


> Yeah, I hated him soooo much for being an ugly, unathletic, untalented oaf; who's only advantage was a retardedly long jab. This was the dark age of the ufc heavyweight division; as soon as any sort of talent reappeared (big nog and randy:thumb02: ) he was tooled like a chump.
> 
> And now, sort of ironically, i feel sorry for the guy. Apparentely, his camp always picked on him (mainly jens pulver), he turned out to be a softie who got his feelings hurt a lot. and in hindsight, everybody hated him; i've never met a single tim sylvia fan.


I would hardly say Nog tooled Sylvia like a chump, infact I would say Tim tooled Nog until Nog caught Sylvia. Your under rating Sylvia as a fighter because that is the cool thing to do but Tim had good TD defense and used his length very well do you realize that at the time he beat Ricco, Rodriguez was a monster who was considered unbeatable, they figured he would be the standard flag bearer for the company for years till Sylvia rained on the parade. And before you write of Ricco as a overrated bum he would go on to whoop Nog's ass and get screwed out of a decision before his fall from grace.


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Quinton Rampage Jackson. I never thought Rampage was that good at anything but he hits hard and that got him a long way.



















tasshal said:


> bj penn. started training in 1997, won the mundials in 2000,ufc ww champ 2004, ufc lw champion january 2008.Plus, he has fought from lw to lhw. that is considered overachieving i think.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

anybody from early UFC days.

those guys sucked and i hate hearing about how great they were.

Royce would get dropped by plenty of ppl back then

it wasnt even a sport back then, it was a joke. they all overachieved.


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## Foose (Feb 19, 2008)

Wow . . . 5 pages of responses and not one mention of Matt Serra. This is by far one of the top overacheivers to me simply because of who he beat. He is a decent fighter but by no means even in the top 10. He wins his shot by winning a reality show then shocks the world by beating one of the p4p best in the world. This has got to be at the top of the list.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Foose said:


> Wow . . . 5 pages of responses and not one mention of Matt Serra. This is by far one of the top overacheivers to me simply because of who he beat. He is a decent fighter but by no means even in the top 10. He wins his shot by winning a reality show then shocks the world by beating one of the p4p best in the world. This has got to be at the top of the list.


 if mat serra was a couple inches taller and a few pounds lighter he would have been the man.

he has really good power for a WW, amazing BJJ, big heart and very, very smart fighter.

take him off the list plz. his physical stature has let him down more then his skills but he isnt really overacheiving that much.


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## Foose (Feb 19, 2008)

alizio said:


> if mat serra was a couple inches taller and a few pounds lighter he would have been the man.
> 
> he has really good power for a WW, amazing BJJ, big heart and very, very smart fighter.
> 
> take him off the list plz. his physical stature has let him down more then his skills but he isnt really overacheiving that much.


I agree 100% with what you said. He is good, I'm not saying that. But, "what ifs" doesn't count. He is who he is. His height is what it is. Yes a couple inches would have helped him in the WW division. But he is a short guy for that division. What I am saying is that he accomplished something that so many other better fighters have not been able to do. He dethroned GSP! That accomplishment in itself makes him a huge overacheiver because I will bet my left arm that he will NEVER get another crack at the title. EVER. I'm not saying he is a bad fighter because I am actually a fan of his. I like his Jersey attitude, lol. But he did (over)achieve something that he never should have. That's why he deserves to be on the list.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Matt Serra must be by far the most overrated BJJ practitioner in the UFC! This guy only submitted cans when he started his career.. he never submitted a top MMA fighter yet. Just beacuse he got the belt from Renzo Gracie, doesn't make him amazing..

He truly fits the best for this thread!


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> Matt Serra must be by far the most overrated BJJ practitioner in the UFC! This guy only submitted cans when he started his career.. he never submitted a top MMA fighter yet. Just beacuse he got the belt from Renzo Gracie, doesn't make him amazing..
> 
> He truly fits the best for this thread!


This. You can make a good case for Griffin and Rashad, because they won titles, but in terms of the least skilled fighter going the furthest, Serra wins by light years.

He has ridden his GSP win for 3 years to a laughable reputation as both a decent fighter and a power puncher, 2 tko's in 16 fights and he is a power puncher??

As previous posters have pointed out, his reputation for jitz is equally undeserved, he has submitted one can in the ufc, 8 years ago.

He is the poster boy for overachieving.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

I was gonna say Forrest too...

But then I have to agree that Serra fits the bill better IMO...


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## War (Feb 28, 2007)

I don't agree w/Serra because when you have power in your hands landing a punch and ending a fight isn't considered luck. He wasn't rated as highly as GSP and we all know what happened but I believe that he could always make another run.

Also, I'm a Serra fan. 

I do agree 100% w/Royce Gracie though. The entire UFC was set up to show off the Gracie style of BJJ. Of course he was going to be the poster boy and win. However he did beat at least one good wrestler, Dan Severn, so it wasn't all luck and picks. I believe it was the fact that no one had seen his style before. Those days are long gone. 

Now he's considered a legend for winning in a tournament that was set up for him to win. It doesn't go much further than that.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

War said:


> I don't agree w/Serra because when you have power in your hands landing a punch and ending a fight isn't considered luck. He wasn't rated as highly as GSP and we all know what happened but I believe that he could always make another run.
> 
> Also, I'm a Serra fan.
> 
> ...


So if I understand correctly, you don't agree with Serra being listed because of his win over GSP, but yet you agree with Royce being listed in spite of his win over Severn...

:confused02:


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

Atilak said:


> You are BJ Penn?
> 
> I have Randy Couture as the biggest overachiever. He has no crazy skill or talent. He started MMA at 33 and still compete at very high level, multiple champ, legend of the sport.
> 
> His work ethic and heart get him where he is. I think thats what exatly tells term - overachiever.


er, Maybe he wasnt born the most athletic, strongest, quickest, etc. but the man has a Passion for Mixed Martial Arts, and got to be really good at fighting with his skills, and his head, not his genetics.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Randy was a great wrestler for a long time.

Rich Franklin was teaching math?? pretty sick dude.

i think alot of what makes Rich great is his mental and physical dedication to MMA.

One of the greatest MWs ever and i wouldnt put him top 10 in MW talent ever.

Rich Franklin gets my vote.

Up and coming overachiever is Kenny Florian.

these guys prove that intelligence and dedication can trump natural ability.

for the beginning of his career Roger Huerta was overachieving on heart and natural talent. if he fully dedicates himself to MMA he could be UFC champion imo


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

If a 45 year old natural LHW, winning the HW belt isnt overachieving i dont know what is.


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## Foose (Feb 19, 2008)

No offense intended to anyone who has posted here honestly, however, I feel like some may not fully understand what the OP is saying. To me, the OP is talking about fighters who don't have the best skills or are just mediocre fighters and have "overachieved" something in their respective careers. That's why I listed Serra. Mediocre fighter beat one of the best in the world. Definately an overachievement. But listing Randy Couture, for example, is not really what the OP is asking I think. Randy is not an overachiever he is just an achiever. He is one of the best in my opinion. Additionally, I don't think anyone can argue that he hasn't fought and beat some of the best for a long time now. That to me just means he is just a good fighter, not an overachiever.

Sorry, just had to say that! Argue at will!!


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## War (Feb 28, 2007)

> So if I understand correctly, you don't agree with Serra being listed because of his win over GSP, but yet you agree with Royce being listed in spite of his win over Severn...


Actually the Serra thing was more tongue in cheek. That's why I mentioned I was a Serra fan. However I can actually see him making another run and if you have beaten someone once, you can, in theory, beat them again. Remember it's not like there was a Serra/GSP 3 just to shut down Serra. He's fighting his way back up now and we'll see if he really is someone who overachieved in spite of his skill or who truly deserved it.

I still say it was Royce but don't support the argument that he didn't defeat any world class wrestlers. However, he had hand picked opponents, his family set up the entire tournament as a way to popularize their style of BJJ and they pulled out once tactics they wanted left in were removed.

Now Royce Gracie is considered a legend in MMA. However does he deserve such a high spot when he had such things done for him? I don't think so. If I'm in a tournament and put people against myself who I know I can beat based on past performances against opponents of a higher caliber that would be stacking the deck in my favor. People would scream false and call me out for it.

The difference is that Royce got away with doing it clean and then made a break from the company by his family saying they didn't support the rule changes. There wasn't a forum for discussion about this then so there was no one to really call out shenanigans when he did so.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

War said:


> I can actually see him making another run


Hmm...I don't know about that...


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## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

I would still have to go with Forrest Griffin. I kind of liked what Serra did to Trigg, so I wasn't going to vote for him.


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## DJ Syko (Jan 6, 2008)

Foose said:


> No offense intended to anyone who has posted here honestly, however, I feel like some may not fully understand what the OP is saying. To me, the OP is talking about fighters who don't have the best skills or are just mediocre fighters and have "overachieved" something in their respective careers. That's why I listed Serra. Mediocre fighter beat one of the best in the world. Definately an overachievement. But listing Randy Couture, for example, is not really what the OP is asking I think. Randy is not an overachiever he is just an achiever. He is one of the best in my opinion. Additionally, I don't think anyone can argue that he hasn't fought and beat some of the best for a long time now. That to me just means he is just a good fighter, not an overachiever.
> 
> Sorry, just had to say that! Argue at will!!


No GSP, A.Silva are achiever's, an Overachiever(at least in my eyes) is someone who physically shouldn't be doing what they are doing/have done. GSP is the perfect age, size etc. to do what he is doing, so he is achieving things he can achieve, Randy was in his mid 40's, hugely undersized and was still winning HW titles. That's a Overachiever IMO, he physically shouldn't be doing the things he's done.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I'll probably go with forrest griffin. The guy doesn't have great striking, doesn't have knock out power, doesn't really have a lot going for him at all... Except his heart and cardio. Yet he became champ by beating rampage jackson, what the ****? Before that.. he beat shogun, what the ****? 

Serra could be considered, because he beat down one of the greatest p4p fighters in the world. Beat him at his own game, knocked him out, made him tap to strikes. But the big one is that he took away his soul, he turned this man from a primarily striker to a grappler in 1 short fight. But he legitimately knocked out trigg and beat hughes (i thought serra clearly won).


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

xeberus said:


> I'll probably go with forrest griffin. The guy doesn't have great striking, doesn't have knock out power, doesn't really have a lot going for him at all... Except his heart and cardio. Yet he became champ by beating rampage jackson, what the ****? Before that.. he beat shogun, what the ****?
> 
> Serra could be considered, because he beat down one of the greatest p4p fighters in the world. Beat him at his own game, knocked him out, made him tap to strikes. But the big one is that he took away his soul, he turned this man from a primarily striker to a grappler in 1 short fight. *But he legitimately knocked out trigg and beat hughes (i thought serra clearly won).*


Gonna take the judges hard line in, Hughes won. As far as Forrest goes, hes the ultimate underdog hence how he has become labeled as an overachiever. The first Tim Sylvia nomination is my vote, hes a big, fat, long armed dude. somehow he ended up champion, but he wasnt exactly facing top guys, and when he did, he lost.


----------



## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

Damone said:


> Fine, since we are listing dudes who actually "achieved" something, I'll mention Royce Gracie.
> 
> A balding dude, who wore pajamas, had embarrassingly awful striking and sloppy jiu jitsu. Was lucky to be out there against TKD teachers and firemen. His jiu jitsu wasn't very good from a technical stand point, and was lucky that Rorion cherry picked dudes for him.


have not been able to say this in a while....I completely agree with you


----------



## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> Forrest Griffin. I honestly can't think of anyone better fitting than him. You don't look at Forrest Griffin and say "He's amazing at BJJ as he has a black belt." He just has a lot of heart.
> 
> Rich Franklin. I honestly can't think of anyone better fitting than him. You don't look at Rich Franklin and say "He's amazing at ______." He just has a lot of heart.


How can you say his BJJ is amazing when he rarely subs his opponents and every time he gets taken to the ground, he stays there for rest of the round? His BJJ is is good, but it is not AMAZING. Amazing is like Demian Maia or BJ Penn.


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

AlphaDawg said:


> How can you say his BJJ is amazing when he rarely subs his opponents and every time he gets taken to the ground, he stays there for rest of the round? His BJJ is is good, but it is not AMAZING. Amazing is like Demian Maia or BJ Penn.


There BJJ isnt amazing, its Godlike. theres a reason Maia is haled as the Best BJJ fighter in the world, he is. theres a reason no on goes to the ground with bj, his jits will kill them.


----------



## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

DJ Syko said:


> No GSP, A.Silva are achiever's, an Overachiever(at least in my eyes) is someone who physically shouldn't be doing what they are doing/have done. GSP is the perfect age, size etc. to do what he is doing, so he is achieving things he can achieve, Randy was in his mid 40's, hugely undersized and was still winning HW titles. That's a Overachiever IMO, he physically shouldn't be doing the things he's done.


Good explanation of overachieving.. For same reason I took Randy.

I add fact that overachieving from my POV. Means to not have "gift" from nature but achieve something bigger because of HARD work and determination. Thats what I see in Randy Couture.


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## pipe (Jun 15, 2008)

Chael Sonnen, hes just a wrestler.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

pipe said:


> Chael Sonnen, hes just a wrestler.


He really hasn't won anything though, if you wanted to say just a wrestler you have to give Henderson so serious credit. He was a wrestler who just happened to have a right hand and he won two belts in Pride....


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

Atilak said:


> Good explanation of overachieving.. For same reason I took Randy.
> 
> I add fact that overachieving from my POV. Means to not have "gift" from nature but achieve something bigger because of HARD work and determination. Thats what I see in Randy Couture.


I can't believe how blind people are to the truth of Randy Couture, the guy is a fraud, he has beaten nobody who is not over rated, he was just built up by hype without the record to back it up, gifted title shots he did not deserve, he was nothing more than a mid core fighter who took advantage of the UFC hype machine and golden openings in the belt structure which back then in the weights he competed did not reflect the best fighter only who could sell the most PPV's, ex-champs like Randy where been protected from fighters they would of beat them unless they could draw the same PPV numbers, it was a joke. Seriously I hate the guy so much I even hope Toney beats him and I feel he has a real good chance because thats how over rated Couture is and always was.

I agree with giving the Championship Crown of the biggest overachieving fighter in MMA history to Forest Griffin, one that has not been mentioned so far is Royce Gracie, he overachieved due to lack of knowlege about his style of fighting at the time, he would never of shared the same success in the modern game today as he did back then


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

KillerShark1985 said:


> I can't believe how blind people are to the truth of Randy Couture, the guy is a fraud, he has beaten nobody who is not over rated, he was just built up by hype without the record to back it up, gifted title shots he did not deserve, he was nothing more than a mid core fighter who took advantage of the UFC hype machine and golden openings in the belt structure which back then in the weights he competed did not reflect the best fighter only who could sell the most PPV's, ex-champs like Randy where been protected from fighters they would of beat them unless they could draw the same PPV numbers, it was a joke. Seriously I hate the guy so much I even hope Toney beats him and I feel he has a real good chance because thats how over rated Couture is.
> 
> I agree with giving the Championship Crown of the biggest overachieving fighter in MMA history to Forest Griffin, one that has not been mentioned so far is Royce Gracie, he overachieved due to lack of knowlege about his style of fighting at the time, he would never of shared the same success in the modern game today as he did back then


what? randy beat chuck when he was supposed to lose, he beat tim sylvia when he was supposed to lose and guess what he won both times thats not overacheiveing thats overcomiong the odds but i guess it's the same.

and toney will Ko randy

and lol at the dumbasses saying royce is an overacheiver when he was beating everyone when it was martial art vs martial art, back than it was BJJ vs boxing or kickboxing vs judo etc. so no shit he would lose today when it's MMA vs MMA


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> what? randy beat chuck when he was supposed to lose, he beat tim sylvia


Like I said, he never beat anyone who was not over rated, you can add Tito to that list as well, Chuck was a lucky win for Randy anyway he just got lucky, did not make him a better fighter. Sylvia was just a can, I think you could go to most combat gym's in the world and find a guy who could beat Tim Sylvia


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

KillerShark1985 said:


> Like I said, he never beat anyone who was not over rated, you can add Tito to that list as well, Chuck was a lucky win for Randy anyway he just got lucky, did not make him a better fighter. Sylvia was just a can, I think you could go to most combat gym's in the world and find a guy who could beat Tim Sylvia


beating chuck the way he beat him is not lucky, he didn't get a flash KO he dominated him from bell to bell and got poked in the eye by "the ice thumb" in the the second fight.

also he dominated tim instead of getting a flash KO or flash sub and im am not saying that randy is the greatest i am just saying that your logic is retarded and if your logic was followed by others than everybody is overrated and not a good fighter


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> beating chuck the way he beat him is not lucky, he didn't get a flash KO he dominated him from bell to bell and got poked in the eye by "the ice thumb" in the the second fight.
> 
> also he dominated tim instead of getting a flash KO or flash sub and im am not saying that randy is the greatest i am just saying that your logic is retarded and if your logic was followed by others than everybody is overrated and not a good fighter


Totally agree, Randy doesn't have any "lucky" wins, his style doesn't lends itself to getting those kinds of wins.



KillerShark1985 said:


> Like I said, he never beat anyone who was not over rated, you can add Tito to that list as well, Chuck was a lucky win for Randy anyway he just got lucky, did not make him a better fighter. Sylvia was just a can, I think you could go to most combat gym's in the world and find a guy who could beat Tim Sylvia


Let's look at some of Randy's wins, remember he *STARTED *his career at 34, most guys are done or fading at that age, Randy started then. So lets look at his wins, Vitor Belfort twice, Pedro Rizzo twice, Liddel, Ortiz, Sylvia, Gonzaga and Coleman. Randy is not a huge guy, he doesn't have one strike KO power and he's a wrestler.......You don't get lucky that many times.

Not bad for an old man....


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

KillerShark1985 said:


> I can't believe how blind people are to the truth of Randy Couture, the guy is a fraud, he has beaten nobody who is not over rated, he was just built up by hype without the record to back it up, gifted title shots he did not deserve, he was nothing more than a mid core fighter who took advantage of the UFC hype machine and golden openings in the belt structure which back then in the weights he competed did not reflect the best fighter only who could sell the most PPV's, ex-champs like Randy where been protected from fighters they would of beat them unless they could draw the same PPV numbers, it was a joke. Seriously I hate the guy so much I even hope Toney beats him and I feel he has a real good chance because thats how over rated Couture is and always was.
> 
> I agree with giving the Championship Crown of the biggest overachieving fighter in MMA history to Forest Griffin, one that has not been mentioned so far is Royce Gracie, he overachieved due to lack of knowlege about his style of fighting at the time, he would never of shared the same success in the modern game today as he did back then



?! You have it really messed up :confused03: 

You actually confirmed that he is awesome overachiever. You basicly said that he is a BUM! And he is aknowledged as a Legend - mostly. That says a lot. 

Another question is "worth" of belts back then or level of competition or whatever. Thats nothing to do with it.

Answer me this question - Did he achive great things in MMA world? 


FYI - Im not big fan of Randy. But I must respect and admire that he has great career and he seems to be good man. Right now I think he should quit and just be face of sport, help new guys with gyms and be involved, but quit fighting.

EDIT - Last thing. You are really lost in you thoughts. If you hate somebody. Hate fans that give Randy credit and blame UFC hype machine. Its not Randys fault. Its not his fault be part of that. What you expect him to do? "Hey Dana, you know Im propably not most skilled fighter and you just fooling ppl. Im done with this bussiness." Pls Dont be ridiculous and get real.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Atilak said:


> ?! You have it really messed up :confused03:
> 
> You actually confirmed that he is awesome overachiever. You basicly said that he is a BUM! And he is aknowledged as a Legend - mostly. That says a lot.
> 
> ...


You're wasting your breath, or well key strokes, people who hate on Randy are the same people who say Royce Gracie isn't that good.


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> You're wasting your breath, or well key strokes, people who hate on Randy are the same people who say Royce Gracie isn't that good.


You forgot Fedor. Adding to what you said, it seems that its one of those special kinds of hate, that is so irrational that they wont take logic into consideration.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

well, the two names that I think belong at the top of this list have already been mentioned and then dismissed by the resident ex spurts. 

NO ONE has done more in this sport with the tools god gave them than Randy. No one better represents and exemplifies all that I love about mma. I don't think anyone has won more fights as an underdog. If I'm wrong on that I know you will set me straight.

The other name is....kimbo. Nobody wants to acknowledge it but he is Randy without the skills, training or vocabulary. He made it to the ufc and got a win with nothing going for him except the courage to keep trying. He's doing it the right way with the right attitude. He was born with all the tools and opportunity he needed to be a career criminal. Pimp or drug dealer he could have had his choice there. But, he's in the ufc ready to face younger guys with 10 times the experience and training that he has. 

That boys and girls is an over achiever.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

oldfan said:


> The other name is....kimbo. Nobody wants to acknowledge it but he is Randy without the skills, training or vocabulary. He made it to the ufc and got a win with nothing going for him except the courage to keep trying. He's doing it the right way with the right attitude. He was born with all the tools and opportunity he needed to be a career criminal. Pimp or drug dealer he could have had his choice there. But, he's in the ufc ready to face younger guys with 10 times the experience and training that he has.
> 
> That boys and girls is an over achiever.


Not even close. He wouldn't be remotely close to the UFC if he hadn't been made a pet project of an utterly corrupt promoter (Shaw) who fed him some cans (one of which he managed to lose to anyway) and got him entirely undeserved notoriety. There are hundreds, hell thousands, of guys with as much or more skill and ability than Kimbo toiling away in smaller shows and Kimbo gets the most gift wrapped trip to the UFC in history courtesy of a slightly less corrupt promoter (White) and he's an overachiever? I don't think so.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

> There are hundreds, hell thousands, of guys with as much or more skill and ability than Kimbo toiling away


 And yet he has ACHIEVED ufc main card status.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

I couldnt really list Randy Couture as an overachiever because he is a very gifted athlete. The dude was an olympic caliber wrestler. Hard work can take you a long way, but to get that far your gonna need a combination of hard work and natural ability or talent. Randy is as naturally gifted as any other guy to ever come through the octagon.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

joshua7789 said:


> I couldnt really list Randy Couture as an overachiever because he is a very gifted athlete. The dude was an olympic caliber wrestler. Hard work can take you a long way, but to get that far your gonna need a combination of hard work and natural ability or talent. Randy is as naturally gifted as any other guy to ever come through the octagon.


That's a valid argument.

I think that being a couple of years older than Randy I tend to give the age factor a lot more weight than you young guys. Remember Randy was older than Nog is now when he had his first fight. Nog is an all time great that is passed his prime. Randy is an over achiever.


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

oldfan said:


> And yet he has ACHIEVED ufc main card status.


No, he was given it by a promoter looking for a hook. His ability had NOTHING to do with his main card status. How is that ACHIEVMENT?


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## Liddell67 (Dec 13, 2007)

KillingRoad89 said:


> forest griffin. He doesnt have the best skills but he has the heart of a champion and it took him a long way.
> 
> He does have a great ground game that he never uses though.


Yep Griffin no doubt.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Drogo said:


> No, he was given it by a promoter looking for a hook. His ability had NOTHING to do with his main card status. How is that ACHIEVMENT?


Are we talking about Kimbo or Toney?
I remember Dana saying the only way kimbo would get in the ufc was through tuf. He went that route, took his lumps and said thank you. And ACHIEVED his goal. although killingroad has swayed me somewhat as far as who is the biggest overachiever, I still think simba gets too little credit. He's not talented. He's not technical but, he's there doing what he can with what he's got.


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## M_D (Apr 8, 2007)

Drogo said:


> Not even close. He wouldn't be remotely close to the UFC if he hadn't been made a pet project of an utterly corrupt promoter (Shaw) who fed him some cans (one of which he managed to lose to anyway) and got him entirely undeserved notoriety. There are hundreds, hell thousands, of guys with as much or more skill and ability than Kimbo toiling away in smaller shows and Kimbo gets the most gift wrapped trip to the UFC in history courtesy of a slightly less corrupt promoter (White) and he's an overachiever? I don't think so.


I dont think you understand the term overachieved?


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

M_D said:


> I dont think you understand the term overachieved?


Second...


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## x_Rampage_x (Sep 5, 2009)

Shane Carwin


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## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

I want to say Randy Couture.

I would explain why I think so. But I just never really thought he was that good. Fans just inflated him


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Notoriousxpinoy said:


> I want to say Randy Couture.
> 
> I would explain why I think so. But I just never really thought he was that good. Fans just inflated him


We had this discussion haha, read back a couple pages.


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## Notoriousxpinoy (Aug 26, 2007)

Sorry I'm too lazy to read some threads lol.. But now that I did. I understand both sides. I just feel he's over inflated. People made it out that he was the next great thing next to Fedor. Which is just lol to me. Anyways carry on.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

marcthegame said:


> lol now u went to far, yes gracie would get killed now a days due to the evolution of the sports. Gracie skills were outstanding at that time and he did won and I don't think anyone could beat Gracie from 93-95.


Oleg Taktarov, Volk Han, Alexander Karelin, Kiyoshi Tamura, Masakatsu Funaki, Bas Rutten, Mo Smith, Minoru Suzuki and Guy Mezger would've all beaten, nay, smashed, 93-95 Royce.

Fact: Rorion cherry picked. There was a reason why Oleg Taktarov never faced Royce Gracie.

I wish I had a brother running a company, so I can get to fight truck drivers, all by using very sloppy jiu jitsu.


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

x_Rampage_x said:


> Shane Carwin


lolno


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Royce beated a lot of world champs at their arts.
Besided at the first UFC probably wasn´t swinming in money so bringing certain guys would be very dificult.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Royce was a babied, submission holding butthole and I thoroughly enjoyed collecting my money when Hughes stomped his arse. God, I hate that guy.


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

RustyRenegade said:


> Royce was a babied, submission holding butthole and I thoroughly enjoyed collecting my money when Hughes stomped his arse. God, I hate that guy.


Hughes' own niceness is the only reason we didnt get Hughes tapping out Royce Gracie, shoulda Broke his arm.

Matt Hughes needs to be announced as the Gracie Killa


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Syxx Paq said:


> Hughes' own niceness is the only reason we didnt get Hughes tapping out Royce Gracie, shoulda Broke his arm.
> 
> Matt Hughes needs to be announced as the Gracie Killa


Don't think Royce was going to tap, even if Hughes broke his arm.


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> Don't think Royce was going to tap, even if Hughes broke his arm.


Would any Doctor ANYWHERE let you fight anyone, let alone matt hughes, with a broken arm?


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Syxx Paq said:


> Would any Doctor ANYWHERE let you fight anyone, let alone matt hughes, with a broken arm?


It's happened before, Forrest Griffin actually won a fight with a broken arm. 

I'm not saying the fight wouldn't have been stopped btw, I'm just saying I don't think Royce would have tapped.


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> It's happened before, Forrest Griffin actually won a fight with a broken arm.
> 
> I'm not saying the fight wouldn't have been stopped btw, I'm just saying I don't think Royce would have tapped.


Wow really? i honestly didnt know that. Im just saying, if your arm is broken and everyone can see it, like what happened to Sylvia YOU LOSE. Mir was even credited with a Technical Submission for that as i just found out.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Gonzaga broke Coutures arm in their fight as well. Randy was punching with it too!


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

RustyRenegade said:


> Gonzaga broke Coutures arm in their fight as well. Randy was punching with it too!


Well then Randy has more Balls then Brains. Honestly did no one in these guys corners even attempt to check out these guys arms?


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Matt Hughes needs to be announced as the Gracie Killa[/QUOTE]

That would be great but isn't there an asian guy that holds that title? I bet four of my friends on the Royce fight and you wouldn't believe the look on their faces. They thought Gracie was God's other son or something. Great times:thumb02:


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Syxx Paq said:


> Wow really? i honestly didnt know that. Im just saying, if your arm is broken and everyone can see it, like what happened to Sylvia YOU LOSE. Mir was even credited with a Technical Submission for that as i just found out.


That's why Forrest's arm has that weird hitch in it, someone broke it in the first round and Forrest KO'd him. Not sure what fight it is, but I remember seeing an interview where he was talking about why his arm has that weird look to it.

Sylvia protested that stoppage for that reason, that other guys have been allowed to fight if they could. I don't think Couture's break or Forrest's was nearly as bad as Tim's though.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Syxx Paq said:


> Well then Randy has more Balls then Brains. Honestly did no one in these guys corners even attempt to check out these guys arms?


Sorry bout the double post. I don't think Randy knew but I'm pretty sure he broke the smaller bone in his forearm blocking a kick. He probably didn't notice would be my guess. Came out after the fight.


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## Syxx Paq (Feb 19, 2010)

RustyRenegade said:


> Syxx Paq said:
> 
> 
> > Matt Hughes needs to be announced as the Gracie Killa
> ...


Some People just dont know anything about MMA. If there is such and Asian dude, THEN HUGHES SHALL DESTROY HIM & ALL THE OTHER GRACIES TOO! And Kyra.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Syxx Paq said:


> Some People just dont know anything about MMA. If there is such and Asian dude, THEN HUGHES SHALL DESTROY HIM & ALL THE OTHER GRACIES TOO! And Kyra.


Kyra would "sub" him from the guard, Matt is a good church boy, he wouldn't know what to do.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Some Asian guy? Please tell me you guys are joking! I just can't tell on this damn innerweb thingy.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

oldfan said:


> Some Asian guy? Please tell me you guys are joking! I just can't tell on this damn innerweb thingy.


Kazushi Sakuraba......? Ever heard of him? He's known as the Gracie kiler....he's that some Asian guy.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> Kazushi Sakuraba......? Ever heard of him? He's known as the Gracie kiler....he's that some Asian guy.


Thank you. for a moment I though I was on a forum that didn't know Sakuraba. I was ready to go to sherdog


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Alright ya assholes. I'm a bastard for not knowing his nameraise01: I know his face and I've watched his fights but I'm obviously not as hardcore as most. I'm more of a Tuf season 2 and UFC 1,2,3 kind of fan. I started late but give me a break, I switched from NFL to MMA so that's got to be worth something right?


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

RustyRenegade said:


> Alright ya assholes. I'm a bastard for not knowing his nameraise01: I know his face and I've watched his fights but I'm obviously not as hardcore as most. I'm more of a Tuf season 2 and UFC 1,2,3 kind of fan. I started late but give me a break, I switched from NFL to MMA so that's got to be worth something right?


This is why no one knows the guys name anymore...


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Okay guys cut the crap fest, I hate when people use an elitist attitude to discourage new fans instead of helping expand there knowledge base.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Okay guys cut the crap fest, I hate when people use an elitist attitude to discourage new fans instead of helping expand there knowledge base.


You talking about me? I just showed why no one knows who the gracie killer is anymore.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> You talking about me? I just showed why no one knows who the gracie killer is anymore.


Can you please tell what fight it is the one in the gif?

Think i gotta watch it :thumb02:


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

AmdM said:


> Can you please tell what fight it is the one in the gif?
> 
> Think i gotta watch it :thumb02:


That's Wand v Sakuraba 2, you should watch all three fights between Wand and Sakuraba, they are really good. I think Best of Pride FC just showed on Wednesday actually.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Thanks a lot.

I don´t have that show here in Portugal.
Gonna try to find it in the multimedia section since it seems away cool.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Okay guys cut the crap fest, I hate when people use an elitist attitude to discourage new fans instead of helping expand there knowledge base.


Sorry sir, I honestly didn't mean to sound elitist I was just funnin and I'm sure as heck not going to sherdog.

I love all the new fans that tuf has brought. That's what we wanted. 
I invite anyone who loves this sport to look up Sakuraba. He did some amazing things including win a ufc heavy weaight tournament and defeat rampage and kevin randelman among many others all while weighing about 180. His match with carlos newton is a thing of beauty.

And yeah EZ but before that there was this


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

oldfan said:


> Sorry sir, I honestly didn't mean to sound elitist I was just funnin and I'm sure as heck not going to sherdog.
> 
> I love all the new fans that tuf has brought. That's what we wanted.
> I invite anyone who loves this sport to look up Sakuraba. He did some amazing things including win a ufc heavy weaight tournament and defeat rampage and kevin randelman among many others all while weighing about 180. His match with carlos newton is a thing of beauty.
> ...


I've got love for Sakuraba, but you know that is the reason no one but hardcore fans know who he is, he got had the discomfort of running into Wand three times in Pride.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Okay guys cut the crap fest, I hate when people use an elitist attitude to discourage new fans instead of helping expand there knowledge base.


I record hdnet fights or I'd know nothing about him tbh. I have watched him fight a few times though. Usually he's getting beat. They don't show much older stuff. If he beat some of the Gracies though he's got a friend in me:thumb02:

Great video btw oldfan. Enjoyed it immensely! I didn't know he beat Rampage...


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> I've got love for Sakuraba, but you know that is the reason no one but hardcore fans know who he is, he got had the discomfort of running into Wand three times in Pride.


It's true. Pride used him up with their david vs goliath obsession and wand broke him he's done. that's why rusty has only seen him lose.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

RustyRenegade said:


> I record hdnet fights or I'd know nothing about him tbh. I have watched him fight a few times though. Usually he's getting beat. They don't show much older stuff. If he beat some of the Gracies though he's got a friend in me:thumb02:
> 
> Great video btw oldfan. Enjoyed it immensely! I didn't know he beat Rampage...


Beat SOME of the gracies, try dominated most of them haha and he choked Rampage out and he got slammed like thirty times. It's actually Rampage's only submission loss.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> Beat SOME of the gracies, try dominated most of them haha and he choked Rampage out and he got slammed like thirty times. It's actually Rampage's only submission loss.


Yeah I know this is off track but I have to respond once more for rustys' sake.

He broke Royces leg. (they fought 5 *15 minute* rounds he then went on to fight a heavy weight that same night.)
He broke Renzos' arm
I'm not 100% but I believe he broke roylers arm with the same hold.
He spanked Ryan, literally. Much funnier than when Randy spanked Tito.

All these things he did in front of crowds of from 50 to 90 thousand Japanese who regarded him as their Micheal Jordan. They've been searching for another hero ever since.

So, yeah if you like Gracie beaters, he's the man.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

oldfan said:


> Yeah I know this is off track but I have to respond once more for rustys' sake.
> 
> He broke Royces leg. (they fought 5 *15 minute* rounds he then went on to fight a heavy weight that same night.)
> He broke Renzos' arm
> ...


That's why everyone loves Wand in Japan, he smashed Sakuraba three times.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

M D sent me a link to some older fights so I'll definitely be looking for his. I've seen the fight where he breaks Renzos arm but didn't know he injured other Gracies. 
War Sakuraba!


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

RustyRenegade said:


> M D sent me a link to some older fights so I'll definitely be looking for his. I've seen the fight where he breaks Renzos arm but didn't know he injured other Gracies.
> War Sakuraba!


You're a few years too late man.....sorry.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Better late then never. I'll root for a fighter long after he's relevant, I don't mind


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> That's why everyone loves Wand in Japan, he smashed Sakuraba three times.


 Isn't that funny? they do love him and he destroyed their greatest fighter ever. I guess maybe I am an elitist because I consider Japanese fans far superior to Americans.


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