# Shamrock eyes November fight with Robbie Lawler



## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

http://mmamania.com/2008/07/22/elite-xc-video-frank-shamrock-eyes-november-robbie-lawler-fight/

Well first I assume this is if Lawler beats Smith which will probably happen then I think he will also beat Shamrock by T/KO or DEC


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

O man this would be great. Frank is such a great promoter for the sport so Lawler vs Frank on CBS would be great. I think Frank would ebat Lawler if he takes this fight seriously and since Frank wouldn't want to lose on CBS I think he would win.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Renzo didn't whip him and Cung almost got KO'd in the third round before Frank couldn't keep going.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Frank's a more technical striker and has a very good chin. I see him KO'ing Lawler.

Also, Frank's ground game is better.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

championfighter said:


> This fight is too tough for Frank to take. For years he had this great legacy that was ruined in the last year after being whipped by Renzo and Cung. Look for him to have an easier fight on CBS against Ken or Dave Menne.



Which Renzo fight did you watch? Renzo layed and prayed in side control. Did he even land one clean strike from the top?

This of course is after Frank knocked out Renzo's brother Cesar on an earlier card.

On the Cung fight, c'mon now Frank stood and kickboxed with an undefeated San Shao champion. And by the end of the third round Frank was closing the gap. So his arm broke, blocking a kick, it happens. His Legacy is in tact.

How can you question Franks legacy? He's held titles in WEC, Pancrease, UFC, and Strikeforce. He was also the WKC submission champ. He vacated the UFC title, which by the way is the only reason Tito Ortiz was able to wear it. Because Tito tried taking it from Frank and Frank put Tito on his ass. Frank was also undefeated in the UFC.

On the Fight being too tough for Frank to take, well he'll take any tough fight. And he's got hands from hell. He is capable of upsetting Lawler.







Yup.:thumb04:


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Frank's still in good shape, so I really don't know why many are making him out to be this broken down fighter.


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## Shamrock-Ortiz (Sep 22, 2006)

I REALLY REALLY hope this fight happens, now that it is rumoured - I so need this to happen, I just think it would be class... I'd be rooting for Frank, and it would be awesome.


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## TKOSPIKE (Jul 7, 2006)

J.P. said:


> Which Renzo fight did you watch? Renzo layed and prayed in side control. Did he even land one clean strike from the top?
> 
> This of course is after Frank knocked out Renzo's brother Cesar on an earlier card.
> 
> ...


took the words right out of my fingers to type:thumb02: thank god theres other franky fans on this site besides me. :thumbsup:u, damone, bjjd7


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

TKOSPIKE said:


> took the words right out of my fingers to type:thumb02: thank god theres other franky fans on this site besides me. :thumbsup:u, damone, bjjd7



Yeah, I'm telling you that story writes itself.:thumbsup:


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## TKOSPIKE (Jul 7, 2006)

J.P. said:


> Yeah, I'm telling you that story writes itself.:thumbsup:


marklar:thumbsup:


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## Synyster (May 28, 2007)

Franks going to KO Lawler in the 3rd, then he's going to KO Ken, then Sub Tito, Then Sub Cung Le, in that order. He wants to Fight every 3-5 months, so this should all happen by early 2010.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Look at the guys Tito defended his title against. None of them where that good until Couture showed up and that was years later.

Do you think Frank was scared of Tanner? Yuki Kondo? Patrick Cote? Wanderlei before anyone was really scared of him? He fought Elvis Sinosic and beat him before he fought Tito. What was Frank scared of?

Cung Le broke Frank's arm stop trolling or at least get better at it.


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## Terry77 (Jan 5, 2007)

Shamrock's biggest hole is still his wrestling, but I can't see Lawler going for a takedown or even doing much in Frank's guard.

I still think Frank could have knocked Cung Le out with another round and a healthy arm.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

championfighter said:


> Broken arm, Kim Couture fought with a broken jaw. And she is a girl


You don't use your jaw to clinch or strike with.

We all know that she's a girl.


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

How do you not respect Frank in the Cung Le fight? 
Frank's bread and butter is submissions and he put that aside to go toe to toe with arguably one of the best strikers in MMA. He even rocked Le a few times. Cung Le wouldn't even go to the ground with Frank. If it wasn't for the arm injury we would be seeing a different outcome.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I'm not disrespecting Frank, but the guy fought a stupid fight in the Cung fight.


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## raymardo (Jun 21, 2006)

Frank shouldn't have stood with Cung Le, but he did so to try to beat Cung at his own game. Admirable, commendable, but not too smart.

Shamrock took the fight to Les' strength. You gotta' hand it to Frank. If he won (and he did do well) it would have been a BIG victory - beating Le in stand up.

WAR SHAMROCK


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

raymardo said:


> Frank shouldn't have stood with Cung Le, but he did so to try to beat Cung at his own game. Admirable, commendable, but not too smart.
> 
> Shamrock took the fight to Les' strength. You gotta' hand it to Frank. If he won (and he did do well) it would have been a BIG victory - beating Le in stand up.
> 
> WAR SHAMROCK




I don't beleive that Frank was dumb for standing.

I beleive that once Frank was in the cage with Cung, the way he didn't push the pace or close the distance was really dumb.

He was putting on a show, he was joking and throwing a kick and than backing up into the center of the cage again.

He was not aggressive enough for Cung. I still beleive that his stand up is worthy of Cung if he didn't screw around with those antics.

He came to put on a show, not to fight. That was his dumb move.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

No JP the fact he decided to stand was dumb.

Why would you stand with Cung Le who has proven stand up when he has an unknown ground game?

Frank could've gotten it to the ground a couple times and didn't seem very interested. He had a much greater chance of winning the fight on the ground than on the feet where it was maybe a 50/50 fight.

I don't blame Frank for wanting to put on a show but it was a terrible fight strategy.


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## stitch1z (Dec 9, 2007)

T'would be EXPLOSIVE! But I have to go with Franky boy. After that fight with Cung, I think Frank has a slight edge on the feet and an even bigger edge on the ground.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

bbjd7 said:


> No JP the fact he decided to stand was dumb.
> 
> Why would you stand with Cung Le who has proven stand up when he has an unknown ground game?
> 
> ...




The thing is Cungs ground game is not unknown. Not to Frank. They're both from San Jose California, they've known eachother for years and they sparred together for so long.

Frank wanted to knock him out. And maybe he would have had a better chance had he not decided to play games and make jokes in the cage during the fight. 

It just really looked like he didn't take Cung serious and I beleive that was his dumbest move.


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## e-thug (Jan 18, 2007)

J.P. said:


> The thing is Cungs ground game is not unknown. Not to Frank. They're both from San Jose California, they've known eachother for years and they sparred together for so long.
> 
> Frank wanted to knock him out. And maybe he would have had a better chance had he not decided to play games and make jokes in the cage during the fight.
> 
> It just really looked like he didn't take Cung serious and I beleive that was his dumbest move.


I think you and bbjd7 both have valid points. Shamrock shouldve done a lil less show boating, and I also think Frank shouldve done a lil more to get it to the ground.

Shamrock Vs Lawler will be exciting, I think if Shamrock actually comes in with a logical gameplan he will take this.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

JP Frank only sparred stand up with Cung since Cung was only San Shou at that time.

Frank hasn't trained with Cung's ground game.

I agree he would've had a better chance if he didn't play games however his best plan would've been taking him down and fighting on the ground.

Not playing to your strengths is a bad gameplan.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

bbjd7 said:


> JP Frank only sparred stand up with Cung since Cung was only San Shou at that time.
> 
> Frank hasn't trained with Cung's ground game.
> 
> ...




I find it hard to beleive that in all that sparring with Cung that Frank and Cung never tested ground game.

But maybe you're right, and I have no proof to dispute your point so I'll concede to it.

I still think that Franks approach to the stand up game in not being aggressive was his fatal flaw.

But who knows. I'd like to see the rematch.


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## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

J.P. said:


> I find it hard to beleive that in all that sparring with Cung that Frank and Cung never tested ground game.
> 
> But maybe you're right, and I have no proof to dispute your point so I'll concede to it.
> 
> ...


Hey J.P. since we're not sure the Tito/Frank fight is going to happen do you want to do a sig or avy bet on this one since it will most likely be confirmed after Robbie wins on saturday night?


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

The Legend said:


> Hey J.P. since we're not sure the Tito/Frank fight is going to happen do you want to do a sig or avy bet on this one since it will most likely be confirmed after Robbie wins on saturday night?




Yeah we can talk Shamrock - Lawler.

And you know we got to do Babalu - Ortiz if that one comes around.


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## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

J.P. said:


> Yeah we can talk Shamrock - Lawler.
> 
> And you know we got to do Babalu - Ortiz if that one comes around.


Yes we will have to talk on both.


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## tommyboy123 (Jul 25, 2008)

raymardo said:


> Frank shouldn't have stood with Cung Le, but he did so to try to beat Cung at his own game. Admirable, commendable, but not too smart.
> 
> Shamrock took the fight to Les' strength. You gotta' hand it to Frank. If he won (and he did do well) it would have been a BIG victory - beating Le in stand up.
> 
> WAR SHAMROCK


Don't get me wrong I think Frank pulls it out if the injury doesn't occur, but give Cung credit he showed excellen takedown defense making it dangerous for Frank to shoot.


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## GKY (Jun 3, 2007)

J.P. said:


> I don't beleive that Frank was dumb for standing.
> 
> I beleive that once Frank was in the cage with Cung, the way he didn't push the pace or close the distance was really dumb.
> 
> ...


The only 2 real fighters that will destroy Frank at MW are Silva and Vitor if he live up to his potential (which will probably never happen). 

I don't see why anyone would give Robbie this fight, it's not like Franks chin is suspect.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Even Vitor at his full potential would have a hell of a time with Frank.

Frank has good takedowns and is better on the ground than Vitor. On the feet Frank is very techinical and avoids damage well in fact he blocked too much damage against Cung and got his arm broken.

I don't think Vitor would have much a chance against Frank.


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## GKY (Jun 3, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Even Vitor at his full potential would have a hell of a time with Frank.
> 
> Frank has good takedowns and is better on the ground than Vitor. On the feet Frank is very techinical and avoids damage well in fact he blocked too much damage against Cung and got his arm broken.
> 
> I don't think Vitor would have much a chance against Frank.


I agree Frank is a hell of a match up for anyone. I'm not going to argue about the Vitor thing, because at this moment in time it wouldn't even be close. 

I don't see why anyone would say he would lose to Lawler is all.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Lawler has a ton of power and very good boxing I think ATM his stand up is better than Vitor's.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

GKY said:


> The only 2 real fighters that will destroy Frank at MW are Silva and Vitor if he live up to his potential (which will probably never happen).
> 
> I don't see why anyone would give Robbie this fight, it's not like Franks chin is suspect.



Are you living in 2008? Stick a fork in Vitor, because he's done. So is Frank. A close fight with a non top 10 fighter like Le doesn't put Frank at the top. Looking for middleweight who can beat Frank: Silva, Filho, Franklin, Lawler, Lindland, Misaki, Okami, Marquat, Henderson, Swick, Bisping, Cote, and Leites just to name a few. The last quality win Frank had was against Ortiz almost nine years ago. Where have you been?


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## mrmyz (Nov 23, 2006)

I think frank would take this no prob


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

> rockybalboa25 said:
> 
> 
> > Are you living in 2008? Stick a fork in Vitor, because he's done. So is Frank. A close fight with a non top 10 fighter like Le doesn't put Frank at the top.
> ...


Four years after he defeated Tito Ortiz and left the UFC as an undefeated champion he went into the WEC and captured their middleweight title also.


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## Onganju (May 26, 2006)

Shamrock should be able to take Lawler, but Robbie is one of those dangerous guys that can take a fight at any moment. For sure, a fight between the two would be very entertaining.

I'm just wondering why Frank decided that he wanted to visit the Orthodonist to get his grill fixed now of all times. I know his smile has been busted for a while, but in this profession that would just be a bitch to deal with. 

With the amount of money he has, I would have expected that he would have gotten an Invisi-liner or something. Oh well, that's another topic for a different discussion...


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

J.P. said:


> Four years after he defeated Tito Ortiz and left the UFC as an undefeated champion he went into the WEC and captured their middleweight title also.


You're right he won WEC title against Bryan Pardoe. Who? Brian Pardoe is a fighter with a 12-11 record and hasn't beat a fighter with a winning record since the loss to shamrock. Not exactly something to brag about. The fighters Shamrock has beaten in past 9 years since the win over Ortiz have a combined record of 31-30-2. He has fought no one in the last nine years and considering him beating anyone that is even in the middle of the division is no more than nostalgia.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

> rockybalboa25





> You're right he won WEC title against Bryan Pardoe. Who?


WECs middleweight champion. 



> hasn't beat a fighter with a winning record since the loss to shamrock.


A tough loss can do that to a fighter. He was 5 - 2 at the time of the fight, not 12 - 11



> Not exactly something to brag about.


Coming out of retirement to defeat a WEC champion shouldn't be bragged about?



> The fighters Shamrock has beaten in past 9 years since the win over Ortiz have a combined record of 31-30-2.


Cesar Gracie boasted a record of 14 - 0 at the time of his Shamrock fight. He's handed out blackbelts to how many professional fighters?



> He has fought no one in the last nine years and considering him beating anyone that is even in the middle of the division is no more than nostalgia.[/


Yeah, that sounds good, what makes you so sure that at 35 years old that his talent and skills have just suddenly gone away? Standing with Cung? Or the illegal knee to Renzo?

If he beats Lawler are you gonna say that Lawler sucks too?


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

J.P. said:


> WECs middleweight champion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Doesn't change the fact that he beat a fighter that is low quality and can't beat anyone with a winning record.
Did I mention that Pardoe lost to a very old Don Frye this year? Check your facts. Cesar Gracie has 1 professional mma fight that he lost to Frank Shamrock. If he had beat him in a BJJ tournament that would be impressive, but this is MIXED martial arts. I still don't quite understand why losing a standing battle with Cung is impressive. That doesn't elevate him to Cung's status, which isn't top 10 in the division. By your logic we should think Stephan Bonnar can beat a top 10 fighter because you stood with Forrest. As far as Shamrock winning, I won't have to worry about it. Unless Lawler slips, falls, and knocks himself out on the cage floor, he will win.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

> rockybalboa25 said:
> 
> 
> > Doesn't change the fact that he beat a fighter that is low quality and can't beat anyone with a winning record.
> ...


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

J.P. said:


> > I wasn't aware that a WEC champion of 5-2 was low quality with a losing record.
> >
> >
> >
> ...


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

> > rockybalboa25 said:
> >
> >
> > > As far as Cesar Gracie's record, here is the link to his record on sherdog.com: http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Cesar-Gracie-14882.
> ...


Late in the third before the arm break he had Le backpeddling.

As far as him not being able to outstrike or outwrestle Lawler. That is a matter of your opinion.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

J.P. said:


> Late in the third before the arm break he had Le backpeddling.
> 
> As far as him not being able to outstrike or outwrestle Lawler. That is a matter of your opinion.



Way to sight a kickboxing website to counter the largest and most respected mma website. I also noticed you didn't want to talk about the whole WEC title situation. Even though Le was going back, he was still landing cleaner shots, oh and he WON. Frank will get finished in either the first or second round.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

> rockybalboa25 said:
> 
> 
> > Way to sight a kickboxing website to counter the largest and *most respected* mma website.
> ...


That's what your mouth says.


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## raymardo (Jun 21, 2006)

J.P. said:


> That's what your mouth says.



No. It's what his keyboard says. He didn't speak it; he typed it.

Just trying to be accurate :thumbsup:


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

raymardo said:


> No. It's what his keyboard says.
> Just trying to be accurate :thumbsup:


His keyboard can talk?! Holy cow, now that is accurate.!:thumbsup:


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## TKOSPIKE (Jul 7, 2006)

had frank not have broken his arm i think he would have ended up knocking cung out either that or saying **** it and submit him.he will beat him in the rematch dont worry and frank/lawlers going to be a fun war. but frank will take it of course.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

J.P. said:


> That's what your mouth says.


You're right sherdog isn't well respected. That's why yahoo sports uses them as one of the only two outside contributors for mma. ESPN uses them as their only mma outside contributer. And when Randy Couture wanted to write his book he picked the co editor from sherdog to co-author. I'm sure you're little kickboxing website has as many accolades. As far as Gracie name one opponent he has fought besides Shamrock. Seriously who has there been? The reason you won't be able to give me name is because the other "fights" were nonsanctioned bouts that don't count as professional fights. 
Look it's sometimes hard to admit when time and the sport has passed our favorite fighters by, but it has past Frank. Frank is in the same position his brother was in a fews years back. He can keep fighting and get dismantled like Ken did by Tito, or he can accept that it is over. I know everyone has been saying well Frank should have taken Le down. Le does have good takedown defense. There is no guarantee Frank could take him down.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

> rockybalboa25 said:
> 
> 
> > You're right sherdog isn't well respected. That's why yahoo sports uses them as one of the only two outside contributors for mma. ESPN uses them as their only mma outside contributer. And when Randy Couture wanted to write his book he picked the co editor from sherdog to co-author
> ...


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Id rather see this fight in Strikeforce cause I love Shammy as an announcer on Elite XC I think Frank will win and then he wont be annoucing and Im gonna have to mute future CBS cards.


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## TKOSPIKE (Jul 7, 2006)

lol that last part made me lol j.p :thumb02:


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

J.P. said:


> > Now, this conversation makes sense.
> >
> >
> >
> ...


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

> rockybalboa25 said:
> 
> 
> > J.P. said:
> ...


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

J.P. said:


> > rockybalboa25 said:
> >
> >
> > > Well you may want to ask Cesar Gracie this question. He actually pulled the same stunt that you just mentioned.......Or maybe you've heard about it by now....
> > ...


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

> rockybalboa25 said:
> 
> 
> > J.P. said:
> ...


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Frank's the man, but Gracie & Pardoe were not, I repeat were NOT good wins for the guy. Freakin' Pardoe was a member of Team Cannon for crying out loud. Dude sucked. He sucked, a lot.

Cesar Gracie was a teacher who had zero MMA fights. Him grappling with his friends and students does not equal fighting.

I liked the Sinosic win, though, since Elvis was actually a pretty decent fighter around that time period. Good fight, too, but Frank would say differently.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

J.P. said:


> > rockybalboa25 said:
> >
> >
> > > I call it like I see it.
> > ...


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

> rockybalboa25





> The reason I used the fighters total record and not the record they had at the time, it shows what kind of fighter they really are. Early on in careers guys have easy fights, so it inflates their record.


I once heard that a bad case requires alot of words.

Your fact was less a fact and more a case.

Fact: Three of the losses you've listed were at the hands of Frank Shamrock.

Fact: Frank Shamrocks first fight was agains Bas Rutten.




> Maybe I wasn't clear that I was only counting fights Frank won.


No you were ademant in the fact that he's had bad "competition"



> It doesn't really matter what level of fighters you lose to, if you lose you are obviously not up to their level


Don't do this to yourself. You are very wrong here.



> So if you use your math the record of the fighters he beat would be 18-11-2.


No I've used my math. You are using yours again.



> As far as Frank being out of the game starting a school, doesn't that kind of prove my point.


Not one bit.



> He's a has been trying to get back his glory days.


Is this another one of your "facts"?



> when he gets in the cage with a top ten fighter (see that's why that's important) he will get dismantled.


He's better than you think, so we will have to see about that.



> As far as Frank's school, the reason it hasn't produced any top level fighters is Franks style is antiquated. He has not adapted as the sport has changed, just like the Gracies and his brother Ken the sport has passed him by.


No the sport has not. You just do not think he's good anymore so you're basing an opinion on that fact. And any other facts that you can successfully misconstrue.


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

I voted for Lawler. I don't have Lawler ranked as high as most sites but I do think he should be the favorite for the fight. Frank can certainly take it, but I question the mental side of his game.


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

J.P. said:


> I once heard that a bad case requires alot of words.
> 
> Your fact was less a fact and more a case.
> 
> ...


By any math the fighters Frank has beaten over the last nine years had a record of 18-11-2 before fighting Frank. That is indisputable. Does this impress you? 

I still don't understand why a 3rd round tko loss to Le is impressive. Le is not at Lawler's level either, but even if he was does Frank standing with him make him a better fighter than Lawler? 

Maybe in your next post, instead of picking at little things in my post you could actually put some evidence towards why you think Frank can win. So far you have tried to counter what I've said by using semantics, but you've never really said why you think Frank can win. Can Frank out wrestle Robbie? Can he stand with Robbie? Or are you counting on Frank submitting Robbie from his back? Any thoughts on why Frank will win, instead of attacking the way I write.


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## sjbboy38 (Jan 8, 2007)

robbie is a beast....but im goin with frankie on this


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Frankie can stand with Robbie, as he's better technically than Lawler. Years and years of training with Mo Smith will do that to a man. Also, Frank's chin is solid, so I don't see Lawler really hurting him in that aspect.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Damone said:


> Frank's a more technical striker and has a very good chin. I see him KO'ing Lawler.
> 
> Also, Frank's ground game is better.


When your wrong your wrong and you are wrong LOL!

Really I see a very improved Robbie Lawler and people don’t give him much credit for the changes he’s made.

Watching him fight smith who is a very good striker it was nice to see him slip almost every punch to some degree be patient and take his time. The old Robbie would have just ran in swinging till someone got ko'd. 

As for the ground game (that we have yet to see for a wile now) Im willing to go out on a limb there and say training with matt Hughes has probably boned up that weak spot quite a bit. Im not debating about who's better ON the ground but Im not convinced Shamrock can get it TO the ground and if he dose I think he will have the edge just not some massive advantage.

If this fight stays striking shamrock will take a tremendous butt whooping. Robbie is faster, has better head movement and strikes harder, I cant see how anyone would think the odds are that Shamrock would beat him at this point in time.

I love nostalgia as much as the next guy but I cant see Robbie Lawler as a turning point for Frank, Robbie’s too good and I think you overrate shamrock quite a bit.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

> rockybalboa25





> By any math the fighters Frank has beaten over the last nine years had a record of 18-11-2 before fighting Frank. That is indisputable. Does this impress you?


What impresses me more is that you've went from 31-30-2 gotten proved wrong, and are now at 18-11-2. And are still disputing and discounting his ability. The fact that you'll altar his numbers to fit your arguments picture is funny, wait a minute, is that you Cesar??............



> Le is not at Lawler's level either, but even if he was does Frank standing with him make him a better fighter than Lawler?


Until Lawler fights with Frank we'll not know who is better. But if we were to go on acheivements, titles, and notable victories as you're suggesting, than yes Frank would be better.



> Maybe in your next post, instead of picking at little things in my post you could actually put some evidence towards why you think Frank can win.


What's your evidence..... rankings? Not good enough. Giving evidence of acheivements and rankings will not effect the outcome of this fight. Franks carreer has been vastly superior to Robbies in every aspect. If you choose to dispute this fact I'll prove you wrong so It'd be wise to move on from this point.



> Can Frank out wrestle Robbie? Can he stand with Robbie?


Yes.



> Any thoughts on why Frank will win, instead of attacking the way I write.


Haven't attacked you. I think Frank has better wrestling than Robbie, I beleive his striking is vastly underrated and he has more experience.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Frank would knock Robbie out. I never understood all this hype with Robbie Lawler, yea hes pretty fun to watch but who has he really beaten. Frank has faught and beat tougher guys and will outstrike Robbie like he did to Baroni. I hate Frank and like Robbie but Robbie will get worked.


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## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> Frank would knock Robbie out. I never understood all this hype with Robbie Lawler, yea hes pretty fun to watch but who has he really beaten. Frank has faught and beat tougher guys and will outstrike Robbie like he did to Baroni. I hate Frank and like Robbie but Robbie will get worked.


Who has Frank beat lately? Robbie's been facing better competition.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

The Legend said:


> Who has Frank beat lately? Robbie's been facing better competition.



And we shall Sig bet Mr. Legend:thumbsup:


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## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

J.P. said:


> And we shall Sig bet Mr. Legend:thumbsup:


Naw, I am thinking Avy, because if Robbie knocks Frank out I want your avatar to be Frank on the mat staring in to the lights not knowing where he is. But if you are to scared for that possibility then I guess I will do a sig(but I prefer an avy)


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

The Legend said:


> Naw, I am thinking Avy, because if Robbie knocks Frank out I want your avatar to be Frank on the mat staring in to the lights not knowing where he is. But if you are to scared for that possibility then I guess I will do a sig(but I prefer an avy)




We can do that. I'll have to think of a good avatar for my side of the bet. Give me some time on it.:thumbsup:


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## UFC 100 (Mar 11, 2008)

The top 20 fighters in his division would destroy Frank. Frank only takes easy fights. Lawler should run right through him. If you want to be considered a great fighter you have to fight tougher competiton seriously Phil Baroni (washed up for years) Elvis Sinosec (common seriously average fighter at best.) Chris Leben would Knockout Frank Shamrock anyday.

dip!:smoke01::cool01:


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## The Legend (Jun 13, 2006)

J.P. said:


> We can do that. I'll have to think of a good avatar for my side of the bet. Give me some time on it.:thumbsup:


It's a deal, the way I like to do it is the winner has to pick a picture from the fight for the loser to use.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

The Legend said:


> It's a deal, the way I like to do it is the winner has to pick a picture from the fight for the loser to use.




I'll have to get one of Frank choking Lawler out than.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Frank would knock Robbie out. I never understood all this hype with Robbie Lawler, yea hes pretty fun to watch but who has he really beaten. Frank has faught and beat tougher guys and will outstrike Robbie like he did to Baroni. I hate Frank and like Robbie but Robbie will get worked.


Frank wont have the skill it takes to strike with Robbie. This "who you've beat" crap is for the birds its how you match up against your opponent and Robbie has some serious stand up advantages. Wile frank was collecting dust Lawler was improving his game and now at this point, Im not even sure frank can get Robbie to the ground and that’s his only real hope to win. If he stands with Robbie it will only be till Lawler sits him down and that will dish him out his what second loss in a row? 

Then again I’ve never liked either Ken or Frank. But at the same time I never liked the old Robbie Lawler either but with the improvements he's made I really think he’s came into his own and is top five in the weight class which frank certainly is not anymore.


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## Pr0d1gy (Sep 25, 2006)

God, you both need to work on your grammar before you forum argue again and Frank better get those braces removed before the fight...lol

I do hope Frank wins, though. :thumb02:


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Pr0d1gy said:


> God, you both need to work on your grammar before you forum argue again and Frank better get those braces removed before the fight...lol
> 
> I do hope Frank wins, though. :thumb02:


My grammar is good enough to get my point across to anyone with fair comprehension. :angry07: <- Hope you can get the idea there as there really is no grammar involved...


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## Pr0d1gy (Sep 25, 2006)

You're pure class, Slapshot. Let me guess, Sherdogg crossover? :confused03:


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## rockybalboa25 (May 27, 2007)

J.P. said:


> What impresses me more is that you've went from 31-30-2 gotten proved wrong, and are now at 18-11-2. And are still disputing and discounting his ability. The fact that you'll altar his numbers to fit your arguments picture is funny, wait a minute, is that you Cesar??............
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I completely agree Frank's career has had a more impressive career than Lawler. However the accolades and high points in his career we're long ago. Lawler is just starting to gain his accolades and respect. Past accomplishment don't make a fighter a current contender. For instance, when Ali fought Holmes, there is no denying that Holmes had fewer accomplishments. He still destroyed Ali, because Ali was to far past his prime. As far as Frank being able to stand with Lawler, he probably could stand and lose like he did with Le. Frank does not have knock out power. Lawler's wrestling is better than Frnak's and he will be working with better wrestlers in training than Frank. I would have respected the answer that Frank would catch him in a submission from his back, since it has happened to Lawler before. Frank winning a stand-up war, or out wrestling someone with wrestling skills? Don't be ridiculous.


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## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

slapshot said:


> When your wrong your wrong and you are wrong LOL!
> 
> Really I see a very improved Robbie Lawler and people don’t give him much credit for the changes he’s made.
> 
> ...


While Lawler has improved, he still gets incredibly sloppy. He still swings wildly and still gets reckless when his opponent starts swinging on him.

Scott Smith is your typical banger. he's heavy handed and that's about it. Decent boxing, not much else in terms of stand-up.

Robbie's wrestling is pretty good, but his ground game is still not that great. At least, it's not on Frank Shamrock's level. If the fight did hit the ground, Robbie would be in big trouble, as Frank would submit him. Frank will not take Robbie down, though, since he'd be whooping him standing.

Shamrock has shown that he can take a tremendous butt whooping. The guy has an iron chin. No way is Robbie faster, as Frank's stand-up is incredibly quick and technical. Frank's been a great stand-up fighter since 1999 and he's only gotten better in that department.

Nostalgia has nothing to do with it, really. Frank's just a better striker than Robbie and, at this point, a better fighter. He hasn't reached Ken Shamrock-levels of washed up just yet. The guy has, at least, 3 more good fights left in him.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Damone said:


> The guy has, at least, 3 more good *years* left in him.


I fixed that for you Damone.


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