# Why is the level of mma striking so poor?



## ufcdog (Nov 26, 2010)

There are the odd decent strikers, but as a whole the striking is piss poor and akin to a bar fight. I hate it when fans cheer sub standard striking.


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

not akin to a bar fight.. pretty bad yes, but its not that bad. i mean if we're comparing to k-1 and boxing... then yea pretty bad. but striking is only part of the game of mma. kickboxers and boxers may be worlds ahead of mma when it comes to striking but that does not make them better fighters, only better strikers.


----------



## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Because a significant portion of MMA fighters have a base in wrestling, pun intended, and are still developing their striking. At least, that's how it was explained to me.


----------



## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

There is also other reasons guys..

A boxer can work their angles and fill space much easier due to the fact that they know the only think thats going to hit them is a hand, not a kick, not a knee... not a take down.

An MMA fighter has to strike with a safe approach, thats why the combos are less punches and its more of a in and out senario. Usually if a fighter is introuble you see them shoot for a take down or pull guard. Not in boxing.


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

swpthleg said:


> Because a significant portion of MMA fighters have a base in wrestling, pun intended, and are still developing their striking. At least, that's how it was explained to me.


which is exactly right. if i wanted to do mma seriously (ie as a profession) i'd cut my striking time. I'd find the best wrestling gym I could find and work 80% submission wrestling. in mma wrestling is god.


----------



## swedish_fighter (Jul 12, 2009)

The strking in MMA isn't bad, its the stuff that works that you see presneted there.

Boxing has bad striking if anything the stance and all head movement it just dosn't work IRL, just in boxing. You can see that this is the case when you watch MMA, boxers stands no chance whatsoever.


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

swedish_fighter said:


> The strking in MMA isn't bad, its the stuff that works that you see presneted there.
> 
> Boxing has bad striking if anything the stance and all head movement it just dosn't work IRL, just in boxing. You can see that this is the case when you watch MMA, boxers stands no chance whatsoever.


bwahahahahahahaha lol

hahahaa

lol hahahaha


almost brought a tear to my eye from the laughter. any boxer at the pro level, against any mma fighter in a striking only match hahahhaha lol the boxer by KO imo.. 

boxers at the top level are gods among insects against mma fighters when it comes to striking.


----------



## CanBjj (Aug 30, 2010)

xeberus said:


> bwahahahahahahaha lol
> 
> hahahaa
> 
> ...


I disagree. A boxer will destroy in a BOXING match but in a stand up "mma" fight there is so much more to it than just boxing.


----------



## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

CanBjj said:


> I disagree. A boxer will destroy in a BOXING match but in a stand up "mma" fight there is so much more to it than just boxing.


Wrong, a stand up MMA fight is even worse, then the MMA fighter has to get hit with 4 oz gloves instead. If it is only stnad up then the MMA fighter has a very little chance.


----------



## swedish_fighter (Jul 12, 2009)

xeberus said:


> bwahahahahahahaha lol
> 
> hahahaa
> 
> ...


What I was saying wasn't that a MMA fighter would win a boxing fight. What I was saying was that MMA fighters got the better punches since they are the ones that over and over KO punches boxers IRL.

Boxers can't punch while on the ground, they cant adopt their striking to diffrent positions to the same exctent.

MMA fighters has the more bad ass striking and a form of striking that is more functional than the one in boxing.

Boxing is striking designed to only work in one condition.


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

CanBjj said:


> I disagree. A boxer will destroy in a BOXING match but in a stand up "mma" fight there is so much more to it than just boxing.


lol im a kickboxer, trust me a top level boxer will destroy any mma fighter in a "striking only" match. and i mean it will not be close. 



swedish_fighter said:


> What I was saying wasn't that a MMA fighter would win a boxing fight. What I was saying was that MMA fighters got the better punches since they are the ones that over and over KO punches boxers IRL.
> 
> Boxers can't punch while on the ground, they cant adopt their striking to diffrent positions to the same exctent.
> 
> ...



this is sadly more of an issue than it should be. a boxers hands are the best hands in all combat sports, im a kickboxer and i say im better because of my kicks and knees.


----------



## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

swedish_fighter said:


> What I was saying wasn't that a MMA fighter would win a boxing fight. What I was saying was that MMA fighters got the better punches since they are the ones that over and over KO punches boxers IRL.
> 
> Boxers can't punch while on the ground, they cant adopt their striking to diffrent positions to the same exctent.
> 
> ...


Ya the one condition it works in is boxing, thats why they are boxers. And what do you mean IRL last time I checked a boxing match didn't take place in the internet or virtual reality. People don't train for street fights man, they train to get paid and have a career doing something they love. Hence why the street fighters always fall to the ones whos heart is dedicated to training.


----------



## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

ufcdog said:


> There are the odd decent strikers, but as a whole the striking is piss poor and akin to a bar fight. I hate it when fans cheer sub standard striking.


...Welcome new member. Striking is only one aspect of MMA. Plain & simple. In MMA you can't focus strickly on one technique. You can be a Muay Thai or Boxing champ and a Rashad Evans or a GSP can take you down and smash you. That's what makes MMA so technical, difficult and fascinating. You can lose in many different ways. It's all about styles making fights. You square up with a top notch boxer, you're in trouble. If you don't have a lower stance to sprawl and stuff a wrestlers takedowns, you'll be on your back everytime. That's why it seems striking isn't well. The majority of fighters are very good and some are top notch...


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Intermission said:


> Ya the one condition it works in is boxing, thats why they are boxers. And what do you mean IRL last time I checked a boxing match didn't take place in the internet or virtual reality. People don't train for street fights man, they train to get paid and have a career doing something they love. Hence why the street fighters always fall to the ones whos heart is dedicated to training.


lol you cant train for a street fight. sure i have like 14 years of fighting experience under me... i'd just shoot the bastard all the same.


----------



## swedish_fighter (Jul 12, 2009)

xeberus said:


> this is sadly more of an issue than it should be. a boxers hands are the best hands in all combat sports, im a kickboxer and i say im better because of my kicks and knees.


Kicks and knees are also a factor that makes boxin ineffective and obsolete.

Im a fighter myself and having fought two boxers (witch I brutaly molseted) I can only say that their punching only works as long as you don't disturb them. A simple kick on the leg and they lose balance and all their power. Simply put they can't use their hands since they isn't used to such situations. If their hands are so good then why do they fail to inflict any damage? 

A MMA fighters hands don't have these problems and they are used and will adopt and MMA fighters will still (usually) be punching and throwing combos despite a leg kick.

MMA fighters got more solid punching and they got punches that work in all situations. On the ground, in clinch, standing etc. Boxing punches only work against other boxing people. Therfor a ineffective form of striking.


----------



## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

xeberus said:


> lol you cant train for a street fight. sure i have like 14 years of fighting experience under me... i'd just shoot the bastard all the same.


That post wasnt directed towards you <3


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

ufcdog said:


> There are the odd decent strikers, but as a whole the striking is piss poor and akin to a bar fight. I hate it when fans cheer sub standard striking.


its not stylised striking. 

its striking with tdd. 

its striking with sapped muscles. granted it will never be boxing but 

1 boxers dont need to guard the td. 

2 boxers dont have to wrestle as well. pick up your tv and carry it up and down the stairs 3/4 times and then see how crisp your punches are.


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

swedish_fighter said:


> Kicks and knees are also a factor that makes boxin ineffective and obsolete.
> 
> Im a fighter myself and having fought two boxers (witch I brutaly molseted) I can only say that their punching only works as long as you don't disturb them. A simple kick on the leg and they lose balance and all their power. Simply put they can't use their hands since they isn't used to such situations. If their hands are so good then why do they fail to inflict any damage?
> 
> ...


nah dude in a street fight boxing is right at the top. even against a better boxer all i can do is kick/jab and run. fighting toe to toe ill get beaten down. thank god i have wrestling and bjj. 

a boxer who can defend/take a leg kick will murder any mma fighter in striking.... hell even if they can't... you cant throw a kick without being susceptible to a punch.


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

xeberus said:


> bwahahahahahahaha lol
> 
> hahahaa
> 
> ...


wrong. they cant kick. game over.

in a street fight it can go either way. a boxer still gets brutalised on the floor in a street fight.

yes its a bad idea to go there but if you believe it dont end up there, then you never sen a streetfight.

and another thing. stop hitting rep points cos you disagree with someone. its pathetic. i aint pulling that. its the opposite of honourable. what are you demonstrating. that you dont have an argument and you know how to press a button in secret. lmao.


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

VincePierce said:


> wrong. they cant kick. game over.


lol worst post ever


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

xeberus said:


> lol worst post ever


yes..that was. 

argument please. not just opinion.


----------



## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

xeberus said:


> nah dude in a street fight boxing is right at the top. even against a better boxer all i can do is kick/jab and run. fighting toe to toe ill get beaten down. thank god i have wrestling and bjj.
> 
> *a boxer who can defend/take a leg kick will murder any mma fighter in striking.... hell even if they can't... you cant throw a kick without being susceptible to a punch*.


Two issues with this bit. 

1. If a "boxer" has conditioned his legs for leg kicks, he isn't a boxer, hence he is invalid in this argument. Take a look through youtube and see what happens when someone who is not conditioned for, in a a proper stance to engage, leg kicks takes a shot to the knee? They crumple immediately. 

2. Not true about kicks. Side kicks as well as front kicks are highly damaging and demoralizing kicks that do NOT leave you susceptible to punches.


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Two issues with this bit.
> 
> 1. If a "boxer" has conditioned his legs for leg kicks, he isn't a boxer, hence he is invalid in this argument. Take a look through youtube and see what happens when someone who is not conditioned for, in a a proper stance to engage, leg kicks takes a shot to the knee? They crumple immediately.
> 
> 2. Not true about kicks. Side kicks as well as front kicks are highly damaging and demoralizing kicks that do NOT leave you susceptible to punches.


mate there are untold examples of boxers getting schooled in striking by kick boxers. 

also we have the spectacle of pele fuckin reid ko ing the current champion of the world in a kickboxing match back in the day. 

boxers can not **** with kickboxers. end of. 

they are no where near the best strikers, only the best punch specialists.

1 wrestling
2 bjj
3 kickboxing
4 boxing

the bjj obviously depends on the take down but this is how it stands. 

you have to neutralise the one above in order to keep it to your strength. 

boxers cant even neutralise bjj takedown. 

anyone who dont realise this aint been watching mma for the past 17 years.


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

VincePierce said:


> yes..that was.
> 
> argument please. not just opinion.


lol 

"wrong. they cant kick. game over"

argument for argument maybe xD i dont need to argue negatives against someone who hasn't offered anything 



Squirrelfighter said:


> Two issues with this bit.
> 
> 1. If a "boxer" has conditioned his legs for leg kicks, he isn't a boxer, hence he is invalid in this argument. Take a look through youtube and see what happens when someone who is not conditioned for, in a a proper stance to engage, leg kicks takes a shot to the knee? They crumple immediately.
> 
> 2. Not true about kicks. Side kicks as well as front kicks are highly damaging and demoralizing kicks that do NOT leave you susceptible to punches.


well, im typically a boxer who happens to be conditioned through kickboxing. in most my fights i tend to prefer leg/body kicks because i dont like being put on my back which i have a tendency to do to my opponents when they kick. 

And sadly they do not crumple easily, most quality boxers take the kick and you find them in your face with your leg off the ground and incapable of throwing power while being punched in the face, hence you must be very careful when throwing kicks against boxers. 

anytime you take one of leg off the ground you are susceptible for punches unless when moving just perfectly away. front kicks are best, but easily caught, rarely damaging and easily accounting for after the first one.


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

xeberus said:


> lol
> 
> "wrong. they cant kick. game over"
> 
> ...


i still dont get why you snidely down repped someone you disagreed with, its not something i do, but fair enough lets move on. 

i appreciate your anecdotal evidence but really? does that cancel out the littany of examples im about to provide of kick boxers destroying boxers in competition?

think carefully before your next reply.


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

VincePierce said:


> i still dont get why you snidely down repped someone you disagreed with, its not something i do, but fair enough lets move on.
> 
> i appreciate your anecdotal evidence but really? does that cancel out the littany of examples im about to provide of kick boxers destroying boxers in competition?
> 
> think carefully before your next reply.


well i was mostly pissed off at someone else and it kind of overflowed to you, sorry 

well id love to see that provided, lol most tards would post remy vs mercer which is laughable. but im sure you'll have something better 

pshh im drunk, but luckily on this subject i dont have to post carefully its totally one sided. :thumbsup:


----------



## VincePierce (Oct 10, 2010)

xeberus said:


> well i was mostly pissed off at someone else and it kind of overflowed to you, sorry
> 
> well id love to see that provided, lol most tards would post remy vs mercer which is laughable. but im sure you'll have something better
> 
> pshh im drunk, but luckily on this subject i dont have to post carefully its totally one sided. :thumbsup:


the better argument, which im sure youl probably conceed, is K1 level striking> mma level striking. 

Fedor dont stand for long against Semmy. i can appreciate that. the issue is neither does anyone, boxers included. 

now.......if the question is ...is mma level kickboxing good enough to beat world class boxing, id say occasionally it is. it depends on the guy. i honestly dont see a boxer beating prime cro cop at standing. maybe thats just me. some of the best strikers in mma are coming out of kick boxing and for my money would destroy a boxers legs so bad theyd be getting hand ups from Mike Lullo by the end of it IMO. 

Again, its just an opinion and im yet to see a straight up striker v a straight up boxer in MMA.

Im vetoing the Mercer v Sylvia fight, the same way you just did the other one. 

Ive seen quite a few boxers try at K1 tho and it didnt end well.

The biggest tragedy of the whole james toney thing was we didnt see him against a striker.

What a fuckin waste.


----------



## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

xeberus said:


> well, im typically a boxer who happens to be conditioned through kickboxing. in most my fights i tend to prefer leg/body kicks because i dont like being put on my back which i have a tendency to do to my opponents when they kick.
> 
> And sadly they do not crumple easily, most quality boxers take the kick and you find them in your face with your leg off the ground and incapable of throwing power while being punched in the face, hence you must be very careful when throwing kicks against boxers.
> 
> anytime you take one of leg off the ground you are susceptible for punches unless when moving just perfectly away. front kicks are best, but easily caught, rarely damaging and easily accounting for after the first one.


Oh so, because they want to guys with no conditioning don't crumple to techniques that can make guys with conditioning crumple? Got it. Magic. Thats why they'd win.

Yeah, no shit. Putting 200lbs of weight on one foot while the other is up in the air throws one off balance. Do you think I'm a noob or something?

Choreography of front kicks is actually the fault of the user. If he/she isn't properly, or too slowly, rotating the hips and aligning the push kick properly as part of that hip rotation, making the technique only two movements (hip/leg alignment -> execution) rather than three. As well as with front snaps. Aligning the hip/leg, as well as leaning back should all be one motion, making the snapping motion much quicker and harder to counter/evade. 

Also side kicks, when done properly, are even harder to counter/evade than front kicks, because they're done with the lead leg and don't require aligning the hips in a front stance, only rotating the rear foot to allow proper hip movemnt. 

These techniques are set up with proper footwork. Meaning that they don't need the hands to set them up, however a quick feign of a jab would easily help with attention. The point being, that a kickboxer who can properly work a variety of kicks can tool a pure boxer (less a puncher's chance).


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

VincePierce said:


> the better argument, which im sure youl probably conceed, is K1 level striking> mma level striking.
> 
> Fedor dont stand for long against Semmy. i can appreciate that. the issue is neither does anyone, boxers included.
> 
> ...


i agree with you for a ways... but the reason mercer/remy is void is because mercer is there for a paycheck and not to fight... while sylvia was himself the instigator of the entire fight and mercer was just along for a pay check. 

and as far as mma kickboxing being able to beat k1 level kickboxing... very rarely, id say good mma boxing beats k1 level kickboxing on occasion. IE lawler vs manhoef, lawler play rope a dope boxer timing the much better striker in manhoef led to his win. 

well maybe.. but mostly those boxers are looking for a paycheck.. not to compete.. but ill argue boxers do better in k1 than kickboxers do in boxing. 

i would have liked to have seen toney against a striker... granted against any fighter in mma.. they probably would have shot immediately...


----------



## ahartleyvu (Aug 18, 2010)

IMO.... bjj gyms are the reason


----------



## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

Why do people always use 'K1 level' striking as the 'highest level'? It's only like the heavy guys and they are SH*T P4P when compared to some Muay Thai world champs or top boxers when it comes to technical striking ability.

Definately though, a lot of MMA fighters do have bad striking, but the fact they have to defend a potential TD definately makes a big difference to this. Quite a few MMA strikers these days coming through are pretty good though.


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Well Maui Thai fighters go into K-1 so you have to get it down right. Anyways, I liked K-1 when I could watch it regularly. Unfortunately that was when I lived in Japan and right now I don't get HDNet!


----------



## Fine Wine (Aug 30, 2010)

And when Nathan Corbett fought in K1, he had an easy time.


----------



## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

*



Why is the level of mma striking so poor?

Click to expand...

*WRESTLING!
The fear of being taken down!

But in general..striking in MMA is OK, if you do an average between fighters!


----------



## RoeNoMo (Jul 12, 2010)

I would argue that there are several good strikers out there who've made it the focus of their game. True, wrestling has taken over, but I don't think stand up is totally gone. And I do agree that these guys need to watch and or spend more time in K-1, like Reem, to get their fists back


----------

