# UFC 196: Holm vs. Tate Co-Main Event Discussion



## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

*Women's Bantamweight bout: 135 pounds*
*Co Main event - Five round fight for the UFC Women's Bantamweight Title*











*Holly Holm (c) vs. Miesha Tate*​


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

these are the only two wmma fighter i have any interest in at all.. sad to see one of them have to lose.

I think tates wrestling will be nullified by hollys strength and athleticism... and i suspect tate will just get picked apart on the feet for 5 rounds..


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

I think this is Tate's last chance at a title.

Ronda will get the rematch against the winner in spite of being brutalized last time, because Dana made some kind of promise to her as it'd line both their pockets, even though there are more deserving challengers. 

The winner of Nunes/Shevchenko would then get the next shot after that.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Pulling for Tate and I hope it's a good fight.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Great round for Tate.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

What a fight. People still question whether women deserve to fight in the UFC. Here is your answer. Most entertaining fight so far tonight.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Holm really picking up steam in the last few minutes of that round... close fight, Got Tate up by a point.


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## rallyman (Mar 15, 2010)

man close fight
a lot depends on that 2nd round

lets go the 5th!


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Tate has to finish this fight to win, which she won't. IMO a clear decision for Holly nobody finishes this fight.


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## rallyman (Mar 15, 2010)

holy crap!!!
put her to sleep


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Incredible! ! CUPCAKE!!!!!


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

spoke too soon, wow, great shit.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Well... That was awesome. 



M.C said:


> Tate has to finish this fight to win, which she won't. IMO a clear decision for Holly nobody finishes this fight.


Man... you are worse than me with the timing of some of your posts


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Boooo holm you stink


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Mmiiieeessshhhaaaaaa!!!!!


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Joabbuac said:


> Well... That was awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> Man... you are worse than me with the timing of some of your posts


Lol I know right? Damn I'm happy. good shit.


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## rallyman (Mar 15, 2010)

wow did you see dana's face

one unhappy boss!


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

I fu**ing love this sport


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

How long until Ronda announces that she will fight at UFC 200?


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Holly made a mistake and lost her belt. Looks good around Miesha's waist


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Joabbuac said:


> How long until Ronda announces that she will fight at UFC 200?


Her mum will do it in t minus 2 minutes


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## dudeabides (Sep 30, 2008)

Tate was badass, didn't hold out for a possible decision and continued to take it to her in the last round to pull it off. Wonder when it's her vs Rousey not if... and which one would Holm fight again first?


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## HorsepoweR (Jun 1, 2007)

She better hope she don't have to fight Ronda for her first defense, we know how that will end.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I love it.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Rygu said:


> Holly made a mistake and lost her belt. Looks good around Miesha's waist


I think she showed how green she is on the ground... when not focusing her camp on avoiding the very specific attack of Rousey.



HorsepoweR said:


> She better hope she don't have to fight Ronda for her first defense, we know how that will end.


I dunno... I was saying before this fight, Tate has improved a lot since the 2nd Rousey fight. Her poise, calmness and shot selection has come on leaps and bounds.


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## TheAuger (Jun 30, 2011)

Tate came in with a good game plan. She stayed patient, even though it caused her to lose rounds. With that being said, she knew she was losing and went for it.


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## BaBoom!! (Dec 31, 2011)

HorsepoweR said:


> She better hope she don't have to fight Ronda for her first defense, we know how that will end.


That was exactly UFC's plan for 200, they wanted Rousey V Holm 2 and then mcgregor will fight for a title of some sort there

Fair play to miesha


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## Breadfan (Jan 3, 2008)

M.C said:


> Tate has to finish this fight to win, which she won't. IMO a clear decision for Holly nobody finishes this fight.


Well you were partially right :thumb02:


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

For some reason very happy for Tate, I guess it's a bit more emotional when a cute girl wins a belt rather than a guy. :laugh:


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

And that's what happens when you don't run at Holly. 2nd round was the interesting one, Holly wasn't lost on the ground, it was more like she had to think through everything and was always 1-2 steps behind.

Personally, I think both Nunes and Shevchenko could take out Holly, Holm just doesn't have enough tools and she's definitely hittable.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

And now all these people going to call Holm a fluke. I'll be shocked if she ever gets to fight Ronda again.

Styles make fights and I felt like Tate was a scarier fight than Ronda for Holly. Guess Tate showed she was.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

aerius said:


> Personally, I think both Nunes and Shevchenko could take out Holly, Holm just doesn't have enough tools and she's definitely hittable.


I would be extremely confident in Holm picking apart either of them.


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## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

I would love to be Brian Caraway tonight, ****.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Rygu said:


> I would love to be Brian Caraway tonight, ****.


Not me, I can see Caraway being the women tonight.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I'm quite proud of Miesha even though I'm not too much of a fan. She made the card so far. Heart sometimes beats out talent. This makes the division very interesting. 

Holm beating Ronda was 100% NOT a fluke. Ronda has no understanding of gaining an entry point. That was the difference. Miesha waited patiently to get the two takedowns that changed the outcome of the fight. 

I still remember when Tate was tweeting for sponsorships. Now, she can enjoy the fruits of her labour.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Woke up in time to miss a Modern-WMMA Pioneer finally get watch she deserved. War Miesha!!!!

*AND NEW!!!*


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

The most surprising part for me was how well Miesha stayed patient & trusted in her plan. She's normally a pretty emotional fighter who does a bunch of dumb stuff and pulls out a win on sheer toughness & grit, but in this fight she didn't get emotional or desperate and made the best of the chances she had. She finally fought smart in the biggest fight of her life and came out with the win.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Legit win by Tate. Holly Holm came to fight and did her best. Tate finish at the end was one of the greatest moments in MMA, and I like Holm too.


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## evilappendix (Jan 4, 2007)

Great work by Tate. Miesha's tenacity and grit really are her best qualities on an already impressive resume. Now I wonder if it will be paper, rock, scissors for a little while at bantamweight.


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Here's another "Dana's tears" pic for the rapidly growing archive:


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Now Conor and Rousey have lost, maybe Dana can be a proper UFC President and stop picking favourites and y'know...actually do his job right!(?)


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Joabbuac said:


> I would be extremely confident in Holm picking apart either of them.


I don't know, Nunes is definitely getting better with her patience & movement, she's got her heavy shots as always but she doesn't run straight in winging punches anymore. Her footwork has improved a lot and she's shown that she can close a gap to land strikes against someone who isn't a sitting duck like McMann and Bazler. She still gasses bad so if it gets to round 3 or beyond Holly should be able to take over.

As for Shevchenko, there's no way Holly can stand with her. Even Tate was able to slip most of Holm's punches and blocked nearly every head kick, Valentina was wrecking Nunes once she opened up with her strikes, Holly's in deep trouble as soon as Val gets inside on her. Holly's a great outside fighter, but once you close the range on her she doesn't have anything that she can really hurt you with.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

LizaG said:


> Now Conor and Rousey have lost, maybe Dana can be a proper UFC President and stop picking favourites and y'know...actually do his job right!(?)


:laugh: Don't bet on it. 

But for now... enjoy the completed picture.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Woodenhead said:


> Here's another "Dana's tears" pic for the rapidly growing archive:


It's weird; I actually thought Dana would be happy. Now he cant set up a match with Honda vs. Tate and Honda can get the belt back. 

Then I realized that Dana is probably thinking what a nightmare it would be to sell another Honda vs. Tate match. Dana might also be wondering how to explain that Ronda deserves a title shot when Holly doesn't have the belt.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Good on Miesha. I was so pumped.


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## evilappendix (Jan 4, 2007)

Man, Tate had better get a better payout than 45/45 now. That is shameful she made so little for a Championship fight.


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

Ape City said:


> It's weird; I actually thought Dana would be happy. Now he cant set up a match with Honda vs. Tate and Honda can get the belt back.
> 
> Then I realized that Dana is probably thinking what a nightmare it would be to sell another Honda vs. Tate match. Dana might also be wondering how to explain that Ronda deserves a title shot when Holly doesn't have the belt.


Imo a title shot for Ronda actually makes more sense now than against Holly. Not that it makes a lot of sense either way though.


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## MK. (Dec 16, 2012)

I see all these posts about Holm having a shit ground game, wtf are you guys on about? She stuffed 8/10 of Tate's td attempts.

And yes in a shocking turn of events, when a TD goes right the one that initiates it can do some serious damage. Holm was winning up until that point, and i fully expect her to take her belt back.

Jackson will iron the little wrinkles they had in their game plan in the rematch, this was just a fluke win, like when GSP lost.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)




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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

This fight made my weekend. Always been a huge Tate fan. I like Holly a lot though. Really hope she comes back strong.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

evilappendix said:


> Man, Tate had better get a better payout than 45/45 now. That is shameful she made so little for a Championship fight.


How about they just give her a bloody main event. Tate's treatment by the UFC was an embarrassment they spent so much time up Ronda's ass and now they get to come crawling back to Tate. 

Everyone's talking about Diaz/Mcgregor but what's missed in all this is Miesha has now won two 135 titles against natural 145ers in comeback fights where she's finished her opponents.


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## Pound&Mound (Dec 10, 2007)

MK. said:


> I see all these posts about Holm having a shit ground game, wtf are you guys on about? She stuffed 8/10 of Tate's td attempts.
> 
> And yes in a shocking turn of events, when a TD goes right the one that initiates it can do some serious damage. Holm was winning up until that point, and i fully expect her to take her belt back.
> 
> Jackson will iron the little wrinkles they had in their game plan in the rematch, this was just a fluke win, like when GSP lost.


I was rooting for Holly but this wasn't a fluke win. Holly has good TDD but she needs to stuff ALL the TDs or at least defend the ground-game better when it hits the mat.

Tate took her down 2-3 times? One time she dominated most of the round and the other time she put her to sleep....


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

MK. said:


> I see all these posts about Holm having a shit ground game, wtf are you guys on about? She stuffed 8/10 of Tate's td attempts.
> 
> And yes in a shocking turn of events, when a TD goes right the one that initiates it can do some serious damage. Holm was winning up until that point, and i fully expect her to take her belt back.
> 
> Jackson will iron the little wrinkles they had in their game plan in the rematch, this was just a fluke win, like when GSP lost.


Take down defense and ground game are not the same thing. Yes Holly has good TDD but when she was taken down, she was 100% dominated.


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## towwffc (Jan 1, 2008)

I always knew Tate was tough but she was always overshadowed by Ronda. But just as Ronda was the perfect matchup for Holly to show us how good she is, Holly was a great matchup to show just how good Meisha really is. 

She was losing the striking overall but was clearly improved and managing to not get destroyed on the feet while looking for takedown opportunities. I respect Meisha more now than I ever did.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

LizaG said:


>


Pure. effing. gold.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

I just watched the fight again and Miesha's game plan was even better than I thought. Instead of just shooting for a takedown or running into the clinch, she was usually getting Holly to commit to a punch and then she'd duck under for the takedown attempt. She was using feints and throwaway punches to get Holly to set her feet and sit down on a punch, and that's when Tate would try to shoot in.

I'm still in a bit of shock that Tate could somehow fight this smart.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

I was really happy to see Tate win the belt. Unlike Ronda, she's used to facing adversity in the cage and her game plan didn't just go out the window once struggling to take Holm down. She remained patient and took it all in stride knowing when to calculate her moves.

Such an intelligent fighter with the heart of a champion. She figured she was possibly down on the score cards in the 5th round and instead of crumbling, she intelligently (not recklessly) pushed through and finished the fight once finding an opening. That is a champion right there. It was a well earned win and I'm glad she has UFC gold now, it is well deserved. I also loved how much the crowd was erupting during this fight. Nice support for women's MMA. I enjoyed every minute of this myself.

Congratulations to the new UFC women's bantamweight champion, Miesha "Cupcake" Tate!


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

You guys are just waiting for the swimsuit specials with Tate anyways...


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Chances the UFC buries Holly once Ronda gets the belt back?

Saw this last night, Ronda is Rock, Holly is Paper and Tate is scissors. Thought it was a good analogy for these three.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Life B Ez said:


> Chances the UFC buries Holly once Ronda gets the belt back?


Pretty surely.



> Saw this last night, Ronda is Rock, Holly is Paper and Tate is scissors. Thought it was a good analogy for these three.


Between those three maybe, but overall not quite. It's not like there is only those three and then nobody else. Tate already lost to other fighters. Holm looked quite beatable in other fights. Only Rousey was completely wrecking everyone except Holm.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> Chances the UFC buries Holly once Ronda gets the belt back?
> 
> Saw this last night, Ronda is Rock, Holly is Paper and Tate is scissors. Thought it was a good analogy for these three.


Think scissors as any chance of beating rock if scissors keeps her cool? With her improved shot selection and poise?


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

If Tate fights smart, I could definitely see her beating Rousey.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Joabbuac said:


> Think scissors as any chance of beating rock if scissors keeps her cool? With her improved shot selection and poise?


Maybe, but Holm looked great in the clinch. She's really strong and Ronda has to close so much more distance for the TD unlike Tate who could shoot. It was coming forward that got both of them in trouble and still Holm stuffed how many of Tates TD before she finally got caught. Holly also trains at Jacksons, its not like it's some nobody camp, her ground game will look improved by her next fight.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

I'm hoping that Tate gets paid now.

But both of these ladies showed heart and the ability to adapt mid fight, two things that Ronda lacks. Holm was able to stop 6 out of 8 TDs, and turn up the striking after a horrible 2nd round. Tate was able to play smart and wait for her chance to ground the fight again. 

I fully expect the UFC to pull some shady garbage and try to push Rousey to the title and keep Holm as far away from her as possible.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Joabbuac said:


> Think scissors as any chance of beating rock if scissors keeps her cool? With her improved shot selection and poise?


Yes. In their 2nd fight, Tate was hitting Rousey with clean left hooks, but instead of stepping back & resetting to do it again, she kept swinging wild and/or charged right in and got clinched & taken down.

Tate could spend the spend the first round or 2 potshotting Ronda with the left hook, and once Ronda starts gassing she can start adding more punches to the combo until she either gets the stoppage or time runs out.


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## arkanoydz (Mar 15, 2010)

watched this fight twice in a row now - 
hat's off to Miesha, WOW has she improved since her first 2 title shots vs Ronda.

Especially the timing of her finish - it was perfection [if there can be such a thing] in my eyes. Holly's a great scrambler and escapes most of the time but the tenacity with which Miesha held on and adapted to eventually choke out the champ: raise01:

I think her 'classy' public persona should get toned down a notch cos it's clearly unnatural and artificial [she is a respectful person, yes, but enough with only giving such sweet answers that'll win over fans and media], but I've always preferred her persona to Ronda from the beginning.

For the first time i have confidence she stands a legit chance vs Ronda [I was actually quite impressed with the 2nd fight between them]


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## Woodenhead (Jan 5, 2010)

Tate has had the skills to beat anyone for a fair while, honestly - she just couldn't gameplan (come up with one or actually stick to it, take your pick) worth a crap.

She's been about the only female MMA fighter I've really liked. Well, Holm, too, since she was awarded her title shot, but that's only because I don't follow women's MMA much at all and so didn't know anything about her. But the way Holm carried herself is exemplary & what I like to see in fighters.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

With all the hullabalu I almost didn't notice I made close to 200 euro on a Meisha submission. I did think she had lost her chance after round 2 but she brought it home. 
Ronda will still be favourite for the next fight, and to be honest I don't see Meisha beating her. Ronda winning the title again is going to upset a lot of people. I realised over the last few months a huge amount of women around the world hate her because of her 'do nothin bitch comments'. That upset quite a large portion of the female species, even the ones who know nothing about MMA.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Super happy Tate won. She's easily in my top 3 fighters I'm most interested in watching right now.


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## evilappendix (Jan 4, 2007)

Tate could probably ruin the paper-rock-scissors analogy with a smart game plan, but her take downs would still play into Ronda's strength. In this fight, her ground attack is what allowed her to dominate Holm in the 2nd, and come up with the rnc in the 5th. I don't know if her striking has improved enough to force Rousey to come forward as Miesha counters. I guess we'll see soon enough, since Dana is going full steam ahead with the trilogy now.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Problem for Tate is that Ronda can pull out her submissions from any position. It's one of those stylistic match ups. This would be their 3rd encounter and really should be the last unless Tate wins. Ronda should go for Holm, but it's about dollars & cents.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

One thing I love is how big of mma fans we have here.....who watch every single fight. Yet people forget how big Nate is. He is a tall, lanky, big lug. People acted so surprised at how big he was. We have Don looking at ufc.com for measurments. We have people laughibg saying only 2 inch reach advantage. Then after its.....Diaz was huge! At least 180! Tall!!!!!


Its like do these people watch fights? Pay attention? Nate just fought MJ and dwarfed him.

However Nate in most any loss gets out powered and has limited 1 punch KO power. He is like Anthony Parosh or Forrest......big dudes....but not exactly explosive and powerful. 

Its just hilarious how before fight so many things didnt matter.....after.....then all of a sudden mattered.


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