# Mauricio “Shogun” Rua describes talented Jon Jones as “too damn good”



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

UFC light heavyweight champion, Mauricio “Shogun” Rua has given his assessment on top rated up-and-comer, Jon “Bones” Jones, describing the Greg Jackson trained fighter as “too damn good”.

Speaking via Sherdog.com, Rua said:

“He is a great young fighter, too damn good, and he’s coming with everything in our division. He is very good in wrestling. I think he and Cain Velasquez are the two guys with the best wrestling in MMA today, together with Georges St. Pierre. He’s a very good wrestler, very dangerous. He’s a guy who will give a lot of people trouble.”

The pair could be on a collision course over the next few years if Jones continues to progress at the break neck speed he’s shown over the past two years. He’s next due to step back into the octagon on August 1st on the UFC on Versus 2 card against Vladimir Matyushenko.


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

At this risk of sounding like everyone else I think Rua is smart to analyze Jones this way. He's going to be a serious force, and will be champion by the end of 2011.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

I think Bones is talented enough to compete with the best in the division right now. I can understand the UFC wanting to hype him more before a big fight but don't think there is a 205er he couldn't beat. Fun guy to watch too, not your run of the mill wrestler type. Looking forward to bigger tests for him in the near future:thumb02:


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## Mx2 (May 4, 2010)

I love how he's described as "top rated" and says he's progressing at a "break neck speed", then they go on to say he's fighting Vladimir Matyushenko. Doesn't a top rated fighter moving at a break neck pace deserve someone better than that?


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

I think Rua is being humble by describing Jones like that, because Jones has yet to prove his worth as a top lhw.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

I said a while ago that Jones was the 3rd best fighter in the division, but now I'm thinking if he fought Lyoto or Shogun, he would beat them both. Shogun would be a harder match up though because I think he has some pretty slick Jitz.


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## neoseeker (Jun 16, 2007)

Shogun will cut him down to size with leg kicks and them finish him off in the second or third round when Jones is unable to move anymore.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Jones will be in title contention by mid/late 2011 depending on how many times he fights. I say 2 more fights before he gets a top 5 fighter. 

I am a big fan of Bones Jones...It will be really hard to pick who I want to win in a matchup. I really like Rampage/Jones and now I like Rua even more after the respect he was shown on saturday.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

neoseeker said:


> Shogun will cut him down to size with leg kicks and them finish him off in the second or third round when Jones is unable to move anymore.


Don't think it will be that easy against someone who has 84.5
reach Lesnar has 81 while Shogun has 76.0.


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

Bknmax said:


> Don't think it will be that easy against someone who has 84.5
> reach Lesnar has 81 while Shogun has 76.0.


Shogun is probably the fastest LHW in the world (either him Or Machida) the reach will come into play but I dont think it's gonna prevent Rua from messing up Jones legs.


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## neoseeker (Jun 16, 2007)

Bknmax said:


> Don't think it will be that easy against someone who has 84.5
> reach Lesnar has 81 while Shogun has 76.0.


Although reach is important, I wouldn't discount a 28 yr old with a resume like Shogun. The man is a smart fighter and he proved it in his last two fights.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Jones is a serious threat to the title. The only loss he has is from the Matt fight, and let's be serious, he won that fight, dominated it, in fact.

His last fight against Vera was VERY impressive. Vera is a good fighter, he's pretty solid. Not amazing, but good, and Jones destroyed him in the first round.

Give him 3 more fights (since his next fight is a joke), and have his remaining 2 fights be against "top" ranked guys, like say Tito (not top, but good for your resume) and Forrest, or Thiago, Rashad/Rampage, etc, and then give this guy his title shot.

I haven't seen anyone be so impressive in his early UFC career since Machida, in fact, I think he's more impressive than Machida was when he got to the UFC, cause this guy is finishing people like Vera in the first round, easily.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

xRoxaz said:


> Shogun is probably the fastest LHW in the world (either him Or Machida) the reach will come into play but I dont think it's gonna prevent Rua from messing up Jones legs.


Comparing speed to jones with Shogun/Machida...umm, have you watched Jones fight? He is just as fast as those two or even slightly faster. He will have no problem avoiding kicks he sees or looping punches.


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## streetpunk08 (Jul 15, 2006)

The reach Jon Jones has is unreal for a LHW, it's the first thing I noticed when I first saw him fight and noticed the tale of the tape. Very freak athlete but he's still young and his striking is very raw and you have to utilize a reach advantage which alot of fighters dont fully do (not saying Jon Jones doesnt or cant). Sky's the limit for Jones, right now he needs time to refine his skills and more fights until he is just a complete monster.


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

Jon Jones doesn't deserve a title shot what so ever and is far too inexperienced too. The guy beat Brandon Vera fine but thats all who he's beaten.


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## Mx2 (May 4, 2010)

Who said he deserves a title shot? Definitely not yet, but I think with another 5 or so more fights and he'll be there.


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## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

Sousa said:


> Jon Jones doesn't deserve a title shot what so ever and is far too inexperienced too. The guy beat Brandon Vera fine but thats all who he's beaten.


you sound like a hater



Mx2 said:


> Who said he deserves a title shot? Definitely not yet, but I think with another 5 or so more fights and he'll be there.


5 more fights!? He could easily get it with 2 or 3 more depending on who he beats after his next fight. 5 or more is just crazy.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Mx2 said:


> I love how he's described as "top rated" and says he's progressing at a "break neck speed", then they go on to say he's fighting Vladimir Matyushenko. Doesn't a top rated fighter moving at a break neck pace deserve someone better than that?


I know that Jones should have won the fight against Hammil, but from a technical stand point, Vladdy is on a longer win streak then Jones. This fight makes sense from a records stand point.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

diablo5597 said:


> you sound like a hater
> 
> 
> 
> 5 more fights!? He could easily get it with 2 or 3 more depending on who he beats after his next fight. 5 or more is just crazy.


Exactly.

His next fight is kind of a joke in the ranking system right now, but after he wins that, give him Thiago, or Tito, or Forrest, or the loser of Rashad/Rampage, and he'll work his way to a title fight in 3 fights from now.

I could see him beating Thiago, Rashad, hell, I can see him beating Shogun, as much of a great fight that would be, after he gets a few more fights under his belt against the top guys, which will be happening hopefully right after he wins this next fight.

He's a serious threat, no joke whatsoever. He's as much of a threat to the title right now as Machida was after he beat Tito. He just needs another few fights for experience and to get up in the rankings, then give the man his title shot.


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

One way or another I can see him getting a title shot, but he wont win it, Shogun was 21 when he became the Pride champion in 2005, Jon Jones is 22 right now and theirs years of difference in the level of striking Shogun portrayed and Jones has yet to prove he's even a top 5 in the division, Jon Jones is good but lets not get carried away with the hype please Shogun will f*** his sh$$ up. (sorry for my language, no other words will describe it)


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## streetpunk08 (Jul 15, 2006)

Michael Carson said:


> Exactly.
> 
> His next fight is kind of a joke in the ranking system right now, but after he wins that, give him Thiago, or Tito, or Forrest, or the loser of Rashad/Rampage, and he'll work his way to a title fight in 3 fights from now.
> 
> ...


I agree with both your posts, he's no joke and as physically gifted as any fighter I've ever seen. There's also Randy if he beats Toney, maybe Rogerio if they wanna give him a contender that high up, or even the winner of Franklin-Chuck if Chuck wants to keep fighting.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

Matyushenko is a good Warm up, give him Forrest after Vladdy and then Machida Before the Title fight.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I agree, streetpunk.

He doesn't deserve a title shot right now, but the skills and ability he has shown is very impressive. Say what you will, but destroying Vera how he did was more impressive than anything guys Thiago, Tito, or Forrest have done recently. Forrest had 2 losses then won a close fight against Tito. Tito just lost to Forrest. Thiago lost to Rashad, but beat Jardine, who I think Jones would murder.

I have Jones ranked up there with the likes of Forrest, Thiago, Nog right now, and I think once he fights and beats a couple of these guys, he will have earned his title shot.


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## arkanoydz (Mar 15, 2010)

neoseeker said:


> Although reach is important, I wouldn't discount a 28 yr old with a resume like Shogun. The man is a smart fighter and he proved it in his last two fights.


I agree. Additionally, Shogun convincingly beat Overeem twice. (Overeem has 81" reach - less than Jones but still a significant advantage over Shogun).

In any case, hope to see this fight in the not too distant future!


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

Jones is a LHW wrecking machine. He is destroying all of his opponents. A win over Vlady wont really move him up in ranks at all though. I think he should get Page if he losed to Rashad c(ause he probably wont fight Rashad if he loses)or fight Machida or T Silva and if he beats any of those guys is worthy of a title shot IMO. The guy is 4-1 in UFC but really 5-0, if he wins 2 more he will be basically 7-0 in UFC and this is deserving of a shot IMO.

I love shogun but I think Jones is the future champ and could probably take out anyone at LHW. Hes just so skilled with a huge reach and great wrestling.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

If Jones can close the distance and get ahold of Rua I see him having alot of success. Shogun is a great fighter but his weakness is his TDD IMO. I'd put money on a Jones win via GNP. Hopefully this fight happens sooner rather than later:thumbsup:


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## streetpunk08 (Jul 15, 2006)

Michael Carson said:


> I agree, streetpunk.
> 
> He doesn't deserve a title shot right now, but the skills and ability he has shown is very impressive. Say what you will, but destroying Vera how he did was more impressive than anything guys Thiago, Tito, or Forrest have done recently. Forrest had 2 losses then won a close fight against Tito. Tito just lost to Forrest. Thiago lost to Rashad, but beat Jardine, who I think Jones would murder.
> 
> I have Jones ranked up there with the likes of Forrest, Thiago, Nog right now, and I think once he fights and beats a couple of these guys, he will have earned his title shot.


Yup, people can say whatever they want about Vera not living up to his previous potential or hype but he's definitely a solid guy and I've never seen anyone walk through Vera like that. That's the great thing about LHW is theres so many guys and so much talent, you can sit here all day listing possible opponents for him at this point in his career.


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## astrallite (Mar 14, 2010)

Vladimir Matyushenko is 24-4 right? I mean, it's not like Bones is being fed a Gilbert Vyel or Mark Coleman.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

astrallite said:


> Vladimir Matyushenko is 24-4 right? I mean, it's not like Bones is being fed a Gilbert Vyel or Mark Coleman.


And his losses weren't exactly pushovers Nogueira,Arlovski,Ortiz.


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## Mx2 (May 4, 2010)

diablo5597 said:


> 5 more fights!? He could easily get it with 2 or 3 more depending on who he beats after his next fight. 5 or more is just crazy.


It all depends who he's matched up with and how he performs. I said 5 or so, as in 4-6. I guess I should have been more specific. I was thinking after this fight, another one before being paired up with anyone considered a top contender. Then 2 in the top 5 and maybe then a title shot. I'm not saying this is what I want, but I think this is what will happen.


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## suniis (Mar 30, 2010)

I think that although Bones is sick sick sick (I mean sick!) he would get beat down by Shogun right now.
Abilities and Athleticism aren't enough to go from rising star to Top 5 LHW in the UFC.
I think Jones needs more experience (4-5 fights) and after that, it's game over!


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

Bknmax said:


> Don't think it will be that easy against someone who has 84.5
> reach Lesnar has 81 while Shogun has 76.0.


DAMN!!! I didn't know Jones had tentacle reach. That's pretty sick.


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## astrallite (Mar 14, 2010)

Bknmax said:


> And his losses weren't exactly pushovers Nogueira,Arlovski,Ortiz.


Vladimir Matyushenko even beat Nogueira once too...and people are saying Nogueira would be the biggest challenge to Shogun...


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

205 is jus ta sick division at the mo when Matyushenko is considered a warm up fight! Don't forget Bader is coming through too who will give a lot of people a good fight. There are legitimately about 20 fighters who are genuine main carders in the 205 division! EPIC!


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

VolcomX311 said:


> DAMN!!! I didn't know Jones had tentacle reach. That's pretty sick.


I smell an anime plot brewing!


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

astrallite said:


> Vladimir Matyushenko even beat Nogueira once too...and people are saying Nogueira would be the biggest challenge to Shogun...


That was a Decision win back in 2002. Rogerio destroyed him in their rematch at the first Affliction.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

> and people are saying Nogueira would be the biggest challenge to Shogun...


This is based on a fight which happened 5 years ago, which Shogun won, and things are very different now. Nogueira is not Shogun's current biggest challenge.

Let's not forget, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, Shogun was a much more accomplished fighter than Bones when he was around Bones' age - he was destroying the highest competition of the organization he was with.

So in a sense, Shogun is the more advanced, more experienced version of Jones, regardless of stylistic differences.

Where stylistic differences are concerned, Shogun is a more refined striker, more mature strategically, and his jitsu skills could quite easily put one of Jones' gangly legs or GNP elbows in a very nasty dilemma.

I think Jones has been working on beefing his legs up, but they will never be the right shape to take too many Shogun leg kicks.

Probably quite a while til these two fight, but Jones gonna be a spanner in the works for many LHWs.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

RustyRenegade said:


> I smell an anime plot brewing!


with the UFC girls, that'd be hot.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

VolcomX311 said:


> with the UFC girls, that'd be hot.


Sorta regret saying that now that the freaks are coming out of the woodwork:laugh:


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

BrianRClover said:


> At this risk of sounding like everyone else I think Rua is smart to analize Jones this way. He's going to be a serious force, and will be champion by the end of 2011.


Nice one.
Did you read my sig man?! :thumb02::laugh:
I like Shogun because he is speaking the truth and is showing Jones the appreciation he deserves.
In a way i feel Rua sees himself in Jones, when he was at his begining: young, up-and-coming talent, explosive, a lot of people thought of Rua the same they think about Jones.
I think they will fight next year for the belt!!!


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

Spec0688 said:


> Comparing speed to jones with Shogun/Machida...umm, have you watched Jones fight? He is just as fast as those two or even slightly faster. He will have no problem avoiding kicks he sees or looping punches.


RiiiIIIiiiight... just like people said machida is hte most elusive fighter in the ufc huh? saying he will have no problem avoiding kicks he sees is just being ignorant.

Jones is one hell of a fighter, very fast, but Rua is a better all around fighter, versatile. thats one of reasons he's champ right now.



RustyRenegade said:


> If Jones can close the distance and get ahold of Rua I see him having alot of success. Shogun is a great fighter but his weakness is his TDD IMO. I'd put money on a Jones win via GNP. Hopefully this fight happens sooner rather than later:thumbsup:


rofl his weakness is tdd ill give you that, but he has a solid ground game that is always active... the moment jones takes him down, rua will be looking for leg locks no doubt. being the wrestler jones is, he prolly wont see it comming.


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## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

Jones' reach is scary.. But he hasn't really been tested against top notch competition. I have a suspicion that he's good when things are going his way, but gets frustrated when it gets difficult. But he is damn good and only getting better, that's for sure.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

Nomale said:


> I have a suspicion that he's good when things are going his way, but gets frustrated when it gets difficult.


lol

and where did you get your suspicion from? just because hes young?


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

I'm a fan of Shogun's as well, but the 205 lb. division in the UFC is the craziest division in the fight game. It's so stacked, it's crazy. 

But Shogun and Bones are progressing at the rate of light speed. They could very well be on a collision course, and I too, predicted that Bones is on a trajectory to be competing for the belt by the end of '11. 



neoseeker said:


> Shogun will cut him down to size with leg kicks and them finish him off in the second or third round when Jones is unable to move anymore.


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## xRoxaz (May 6, 2010)

Spec0688 said:


> lol
> 
> and where did you get your suspicion from? just because hes young?


I think he got it from the stare-down against Vera where he thought it was ok to put his head down and just push against his opponent lol, Jones is a shady character we have yet to find out his personality as well.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

rofl his weakness is tdd ill give you that, but he has a solid ground game that is always active... the moment jones takes him down, rua will be looking for leg locks no doubt. being the wrestler jones is, he prolly wont see it comming.[/QUOTE]

I don't lump Jones into the "wrestlers" section of mma. He would be helped by more experience of course but I don't think he's just a dumb wrestler. I think it would be hard for Rua to look for a leg lock when he's getting elbowed in the face too. Just my opinion tho:thumb02:


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## Wookie (Jul 20, 2008)

By the time Jones is going to get a title shot, he'll probably be ready for Shogun. If he continues at this rate that is. He could however end up like Parisian or Vera though (up and comers that never went anywhere). It's good to hear that Shogun is looking to the future though, because I'm sure that Bone's is going to be one of his tougher fights.


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## Kado (Apr 18, 2010)

I agree with Rua here. JOnes is a really good fighter, once he gets to show us what he can do aganist a top-tier battled tested LHW I think more people will be respecting what he can bring to the table. Although right now. I think Rua beats him.


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## Nomale (Apr 22, 2007)

Spec0688 said:


> lol
> 
> and where did you get your suspicion from? just because hes young?


Nah, it's just based on what I've seen with guys in general who wants to use a lot of flashy techniques. It's no serious conviction, I promise. If that helps you can stop loling hopefully. Or keep on loling in normal conversation, I don't really care.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

[email protected] hyping Jones up beyond belief. He's got a dq loss to Hamill, a decision to Bonnar (WHO COLEMAN DOMINATED FFS), and a win over Vera. And seriously, he didn't want to stand with Vera and got tied up in the guard all fight long. 

And people are saying he'd beat Shogun? :sarcastic12:


Jones needs to finish Rashad, Rampage, Lyoto, Thiago Silva, Lil Nog and Forrest Griffin to be getting the hype he's getting. Except he hasn't faced ANYONE of that caliber or anyone top 15 for that matter.


And remember that Shogun doesn't speak english, so the "too damn good" quote could be poorly translated.


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## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

arkanoydz said:


> I agree. Additionally, Shogun convincingly beat Overeem twice. (Overeem has 81" reach - less than Jones but still a significant advantage over Shogun).
> 
> In any case, hope to see this fight in the not too distant future!


I wouldn't make this comparison considering Overeem out struck Shogun when they fought and also isn't the wrestler that Jones is so he is more likely to be on his back (which is where he got finished against Shogun) than Jones is. I know Overeem is a better striker than Jones, but his reach did give Shogun problems, although I would admit that his superior striking probably had more to do with that. I just thought that i would point that out.

Jones is a completely different fight for Shogun than Overeem was in a sense where Shogun probably won't be able to take Jones down and he will have to stand with him the whole time if Jones chooses to keep it standing. Then again, I think Shogun is a better striker than Jones so I'm sure Jones will have a different game plan to go into the fight with if they fought.



> [email protected] hyping Jones up beyond belief. *He's got a dq loss to Hamill*, a decision to Bonnar (WHO COLEMAN DOMINATED FFS), and a win over Vera. And seriously, he didn't want to stand with Vera and got tied up in the guard all fight long. /QUOTE]
> 
> I'm not sure why you would throw this into the reasons why he isn't ready for Shogun. It was a technical loss, but he completely dominated Hamill and only got disqualified because he threw an illegal elbow strike. It's a very big probability that if he had never done that, he would have continued to dominate the fight until the referee decided Hamill had enough. You have solid points on why he shouldn't be hyped up so much, but I just wouldn't add that one.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

khoveraki said:


> [email protected] hyping Jones up beyond belief. He's got a dq loss to Hamill, a decision to Bonnar (WHO COLEMAN DOMINATED FFS), and a win over Vera. And seriously, he didn't want to stand with Vera and got tied up in the guard all fight long.
> 
> And people are saying he'd beat Shogun? :sarcastic12:
> 
> ...


Lol Bones beat up Bonnar way worse than Coleman did. And nobody has finished Bonnar besides doctor stoppage from cuts, hes a hell of a tough guy.

Lol and Bones kicked Hammils ass bad in that fight, just messed up using a technique I dont think he knew was illegal

He took vera down and smashed him, so u think he was afraid of his striking cause of this? He chose where the fight was going to take place and dominated. 

Lol you just tried to take everything away from 3 dominant performances.

If anyone deserves hype right now its him. He doesnt need to beat every top guy to have hype, its hype. People think hes the future of the division and he definetly has a good shot at beating any of those guys you mentioned. None of them have been nearly as impressive as him latley.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> [email protected] hyping Jones up beyond belief. He's got a dq loss to Hamill, a decision to Bonnar (WHO COLEMAN DOMINATED FFS), and a win over Vera. And seriously, he didn't want to stand with Vera and got tied up in the guard all fight long.
> 
> And people are saying he'd beat Shogun? :sarcastic12:
> 
> ...


You are basically taking away everything Jones has done. You are also implying that people are saying that if they fought today, he would win, people are saying in the next 1-2 years he has a chance against him depending on how many times he fights. 

You want to compare performances with coleman? How about Randy. Randy is in possible title talk after Rampage/Rashad, What did Randy do to Vera and compare that to what Jones did. I think you have some inner hate against Bones Jones because he is one heck of a fighter with potential to a champion someday.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

steveo412 said:


> Lol Bones beat up Bonnar way worse than Coleman did. And nobody has finished Bonnar besides doctor stoppage from cuts, hes a hell of a tough guy.
> 
> Lol and Bones kicked Hammils ass bad in that fight, just messed up using a technique I dont think he knew was illegal
> 
> ...


So Rampage: went 8-1 since his 2005 loss to Shogun and was the UFC champ, defeating the likes of Henderson, Wanderlei, Franklin, Jardine and Liddel hasn't been as impressive as Jones?

This is the kind of fighter Jones needs to dominate to get this kind of hype.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> So Rampage: went 8-1 since his 2005 loss to Shogun and was the UFC champ, defeating the likes of Henderson, Wanderlei, Franklin, Jardine and Liddel hasn't been as impressive as Jones?
> 
> This is the kind of fighter Jones needs to dominate to get this kind of hype.


You are totally taking this the wrong way. Why did you even bring up Rampage in this conversation? The guy you quoted didnt even mention him. 

Who is there to hype as the future of the LHW division? 
Rampage = coming back after a long long break (I am a huge fan)
Rashad = Is already a dominant fighter but most people dont think he will be a champion again
Machida = Already has hype on his and most people think he will always be in title contention
Shogun = New found hype after impressive win


Who is there to hype thats not already hyped? If you dont think Jones will be the future of the LHW division, then I just dont know what to say to you. People are hyping Jones for this specific reason, He is young and looks very good against fighters *who he should look good against.*


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## Mauricio Rua (May 27, 2009)

This kid does have potential but I dont think he'll smash through everyone like a lot are saying, especially not by "end of 2011". I think he'll be champ much later on in his career, but right now do you honestly think he'll dominate Rashad, Rampage, or Machida (and he would need to do it to get anywhere near the title right now). He still has a lot to learn and improve (like his striking for example. I think he would smash guys like Ortiz or Griffin but that's about it for now. I wanted to see Jones fight Thiago Silva or even Bader just to see where he's at and how he handles them. There's still many matchups for him in the upcoming years


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Mx2 said:


> I love how he's described as "top rated" and says he's progressing at a "break neck speed", then they go on to say he's fighting Vladimir Matyushenko. Doesn't a top rated fighter moving at a break neck pace deserve someone better than that?


Vladimir is 24-4 with wins over Tim Boetsch, Pedro Rizzo, Little Nog, Jason Lambert and Vernon White. He isn't the best but he is a pretty solid fighter.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

Spec0688 said:


> You are totally taking this the wrong way. Why did you even bring up Rampage in this conversation? The guy you quoted didnt even mention him.
> 
> Who is there to hype as the future of the LHW division?
> Rampage = coming back after a long long break (I am a huge fan)
> ...


rofl wow, really? shogun from 04-06 was considered the #1 lhw in the world. he came to the ufc with all that hype and lost cause he had difficulties during his training. now he's the ufc champ, i dont think it was hype that he was considered #1 and i think wining the ufc belt solidifies it.


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## rezin (May 28, 2007)

What is with this he has not fought any tough competition. He has DOMINATED everyone put before him. I am not sure what else you are looking for him to do besides walk on water.

Fact is he wanted a top level fighter and didnt get it. I am not going to say he will stomp every fighter at the top of the division but I personally think he will be able to stay in the fight and possibly win, we wont know if he is the ish until he gets that fight.

But considering who he has been assigned to fight in the past, he has performed as good as anyone else could. Shogun, Machida, Rampage all would def beat the guys Jones has but I doubt they would be more dominant, maybe the same level of domination which is why everyone is so high on the kid.

Who knows he could be the greatest gatekeeper of all time but until he gets a top fight we will never know.

I would like anyone to say outside of the DQ why this fighter does not deserve an A on fight performance.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

chilo said:


> rofl wow, really? shogun from 04-06 was considered the #1 lhw in the world. he came to the ufc with all that hype and lost cause he had difficulties during his training. now he's the ufc champ, i dont think it was hype that he was considered #1 and i think wining the ufc belt solidifies it.


new found hype because most people wrote off shogun just like most other pride fighters/champions in the past. After the coleman fight, If I made a poll on this forum asking who would win, Machida or Shogun, I can almost guarantee people would write Shogun off.

Shogun lost some of his hype that surrounded him back when he was wrecking Pride. Losing to Forrest, Having injuries and surgeries, also that less then stellar performance against Coleman... 

Yea...I think I would call it new found hype...or "old hype" returned back to him.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

How come they still call it hype, he is the truth. Pride and UFC belt is just bananas.

Would love to see Shogun vs Silva.


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## K R Y (Nov 19, 2007)

Rusko said:


> How come they still call it hype, he is the truth. *Pride* and UFC belt is just bananas.
> 
> Would love to see Shogun vs Silva.


When did he get that?  

And of course the 'hype' surrounding Shogun is new found, or re found. ALOT of people/fans (myself included) didn't think he'd ever be back to Pride form after his performances against Forrest and Coleman. So when he came in against Machida in an absolute war and looked fantastic, then in the rematch KO's him in the first round, looking even more impressive, alot of the old hype that was surrounding Shogun is back. Except I don't think it's hype this time, he's proven he is just that damn good and has lived up to it back in Pride and again in the UFC.


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## arkanoydz (Mar 15, 2010)

Nick_V03 said:


> I wouldn't make this comparison considering Overeem out struck Shogun when they fought and also isn't the wrestler that Jones is so he is more likely to be on his back (which is where he got finished against Shogun) than Jones is. I know Overeem is a better striker than Jones, but his reach did give Shogun problems, although I would admit that his superior striking probably had more to do with that. I just thought that i would point that out.
> 
> (...)


Of course Jones and Overeem are different fighters so it goes without saying they would present 2 different fights.
I was pointing out in my reply that 'reach' was not a defining problem for Shogun in either of his fights against Overeem. What is significant is that Shogun managed to get the win nonetheless, exploiting whatever weakness in his opponent's game. I was very impressed with both fights; even more so when I watched Rua submit The Monster with a leg-lock.

In any case, Jones is a natural and I can't wait to see him
matched up with the top dogs asap =)


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Winning the PRIDE MW GP is enough to prove that he isn't hype, that he was for real and injured.


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

khoveraki said:


> [email protected] hyping Jones up beyond belief. He's got a dq loss to Hamill, a decision to Bonnar (WHO COLEMAN DOMINATED FFS), and a win over Vera. And seriously, he didn't want to stand with Vera and got tied up in the guard all fight long.


wow your an idiot and lol at being "tied up in the guard all fight long", how long was that fight again? and who won


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## Calibretto9 (Oct 15, 2006)

I hate to be a band wagoner or to hop on a guy's nuts, but I think Jones is the next level for the LHW division. His skills, size and athleticism are unbelievable. I think he'd give Shogun a hell of a fight. The only problem here is that I think Jones needs to get into a war first. Once he's seen what it's like to fight a war he'd be ready for the top guys.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

arkanoydz said:


> Of course Jones and Overeem are different fighters so it goes without saying they would present 2 different fights.
> I was pointing out in my reply that 'reach' was not a defining problem for Shogun in either of his fights against Overeem. What is significant is that Shogun managed to get the win nonetheless, exploiting whatever weakness in his opponent's game. I was very impressed with both fights; even more so when I watched Rua submit The Monster with a leg-lock.
> 
> In any case, Jones is a natural and I can't wait to see him
> matched up with the top dogs asap =)


Overeem did give Shogun a lot of trouble with his reach though and was winning the standup part of the second fight. Its jsut once you get Overeem on his back hes like a fish if you got somebody with a decent ground game and GnP. I think Jones reach would give Shogun serious problems, How wouldnt it


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Shogun will drop the belt to Rampage. you heard it here first.


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

diablo5597 said:


> you sound like a hater
> 
> 
> 
> 5 more fights!? He could easily get it with 2 or 3 more depending on who he beats after his next fight. 5 or more is just crazy.


Really because he beat one good fighter and all of the sudden he should be thrown right into the mix? Makes perfect sense and completely fair to the guys who've been winning


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

if the current champ praises then i guess we now know the guys in the back think this kid is for real as well. good to know that it is not based on ufc hype or fan hype but real skills and respect. if he goes the way of the lhw (meaning switching to more standup as he progresses) like rashad he would be exiting but i would hope he continues to develop his ground game.

again praise from the top means a lot hope he keeps moving at a "break neck speed" after he beats vlad.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Sousa said:


> Really because he beat one good fighter and all of the sudden he should be thrown right into the mix? Makes perfect sense and completely fair to the guys who've been winning


Other than Rampage and Rashad and Machida, who else deserves to be "in the mix" more than Jones?

Forrest lost twice in a row then beat up Tito, a guy who hasn't won a fight in 4 years, and that was against Ken Shamrock, via decision? Or Thiago who is coming off a loss, and whose only actaul solid win is against Jardine, or.. who?

Jones is basically 5-0 in the UFC, as he was dominating Matt and honestly, that elbow didn't finish the fight, Matt just plain out couldn't continue after that beating, and then he demolished Vera in the first round. Have you ever seen anyone walk through Vera like that? Even Randy is being considered a contender at LHW right now, and he almost got beat by Vera.

Jones should most definitely be in the mix right now, and he most definitely should be fighting guys like Thiago, Forrest, Rashad/Rampage, etc, and then in 3 or so fights, get his title shot after beating a few of those guys.

Brock got his title fight after being 1-1 in the UFC for crying out loud, and Jones is now 5-0, technically 5-1, but come on, anyone with any sort of common sense knows Jones wrecked Matt's shit and that elbow didn't finish anything, he was already done, and he has been extremely impressive.

Give him 3 more fights, let him beat Vlad, then put him in there with Thiago or Forrest, or even Nog, then put him in again with a guy like Rampage/Rashad (the loser), or any of the top guys, then give him his title shot. That would make him 8-0 in the UFC (in the eyes of common sense), with wins over Vera, and 2 other top of the line guys, as well as guys like Bonnar. That's far more than the majority of people in the UFC need to do to get a title shot these days.


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## neoseeker (Jun 16, 2007)

One thing no one knows about Jones is, can he take a punch ? Remember, the guy is rather skinny compared to others in his division. Sure he can fight, but a title fight is 5 rounds, there's a chance he gets can get caught. How is he going to react is still a mystery.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

neoseeker said:


> One thing no one knows about Jones is, can he take a punch ? Remember, the guy is rather skinny compared to others in his division. Sure he can fight, but a title fight is 5 rounds, there's a chance he gets can get caught. How is he going to react is still a mystery.


Check out the brandon vera fight. He took two, really hard illegal kicks to the jaw when he had control of vera. Thats when i realised, damn, this kid has got chin too.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

xRoxaz said:


> I think Rua is being humble by describing Jones like that, because Jones has yet to prove his worth as a top lhw.


Competition isn't everything. You can tell how good a fighter is when he fights simply by watching him fight. The dude has just DESTROYED everyone he's fought so far. I mean, had he not made a mistake and there had not been a misinterpretation, his fight with Hammill was over before those elbows started. Add to that that he threw him around like a rag doll. He seperated Vera's cheek from his skull. He put Bonnar down with one of the SICKEST strikes I've ever laid eyes on (that spinning elbow of DOOM) and took him to an easy decision. Every fight he's been in is pretty one sided so I have no problem saying he's up there with the elite right now. 

Him fighting the guys he's fighting makes me think of if the UFC would let someone like JDS or Cain fight Eddie Sanchez or something. Except he's doing it to EVERYONE.


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## streetpunk08 (Jul 15, 2006)

Like I said earlier from a physical standpoint the guy has all the talent to be great and be great for a long time. He's got good wrestling and very unorthadox and explosive standup while still being very raw. Basically this enitre forum considered Mousasi top 5 easy without a single top 10 victory now I wouldnt consider Jones top 5 but he should be ranked imo no doubt. He will face a top 5-6 guy before getting a title shot and we will see how he stacks up at that point. He's only like what 22? People were hyping him as a prospect and the future but after ahnihilating a solid vet like Vera in the way he did the future might become the present sooner than alot expected, from a purely physical and athletic standpoint alone he poses some problems for alot of fighters. Nobody is saying he could beat Fedor or Anderson or beat everybody but he poses alot of problems and is no joke.


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## Sousa (Jun 16, 2007)

Michael Carson said:


> Other than Rampage and Rashad and Machida, who else deserves to be "in the mix" more than Jones?


Damien Maia lost to Marquardt and beat Dan Miller and still got a title shot against Anderson Silva which was a bad idea.Is Dan Miller a top contender for the middleweight? I jsut don't think he should be in it. I think if he gets past Matyshuenko then he should be put in a fight with a formidable opponent like a Forrest or a Rashad or a Tito. he has to fight some good guys before getting a shot. Like I said beating Vera shouldn't mean he gets a title shot. Hell what if he doesn't get past him...should he still get a title shot because people are falling in love with him?

He's got potential but he needs to be eased into the title picture and not thrown in like Gonzaga was. What would be the purpose to let him fight Shogun and get destroyed? There would be none. Either way if he gets past his next fight he should get the loser of Rashad vs Rampage and even then that might be pushing it.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Sousa said:


> Damien Maia lost to Marquardt and beat Dan Miller and still got a title shot against Anderson Silva which was a bad idea.Is Dan Miller a top contender for the middleweight? I jsut don't think he should be in it. I think if he gets past Matyshuenko then he should be put in a fight with a formidable opponent like a Forrest or a Rashad or a Tito. he has to fight some good guys before getting a shot. Like I said beating Vera shouldn't mean he gets a title shot. Hell what if he doesn't get past him...should he still get a title shot because people are falling in love with him?
> 
> He's got potential but he needs to be eased into the title picture and not thrown in like Gonzaga was. What would be the purpose to let him fight Shogun and get destroyed? There would be none. Either way if he gets past his next fight he should get the loser of Rashad vs Rampage and even then that might be pushing it.


Demain Maia didn't deserve the shot, but he was one of the best options at the time. Marquardt had just lost, Vitor and Sonnen weren't ready for the fight, and they didn't want to keep Silva on the shelf for too long so they went with Maia. I am with you, he didn't deserve the shot, but the UFC was just making due with what they had in that situation.

As for Jones, I think that if he wins, then he should definitely get the loser of Rampage/Rashad with the winner moving on to fight Shogun for the title. Jones has absolutely mauled everyone innhis path, so I think that he has definitely deserved a jump up in competition. Not a title shot, but a real chance to prove what he's got.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Sousa said:


> Damien Maia lost to Marquardt and beat Dan Miller and still got a title shot against Anderson Silva which was a bad idea.Is Dan Miller a top contender for the middleweight? I jsut don't think he should be in it. I think if he gets past Matyshuenko then he should be put in a fight with a formidable opponent like a Forrest or a Rashad or a Tito. he has to fight some good guys before getting a shot. Like I said beating Vera shouldn't mean he gets a title shot. Hell what if he doesn't get past him...should he still get a title shot because people are falling in love with him?
> 
> He's got potential but he needs to be eased into the title picture and not thrown in like Gonzaga was. What would be the purpose to let him fight Shogun and get destroyed? There would be none. Either way if he gets past his next fight he should get the loser of Rashad vs Rampage and even then that might be pushing it.


I never said anything about throwing Jones in with Shogun right now, I said he absolutely should be "in the mix" with the likes of Forrest, Thiago, Rashad/Rampage, Nog, etc, and after beating a few of these guys, he should get a title shot. He's good enough to be in the mix with these guys, as in, most of these guys need a few wins over other top guys to get a title shot, and that's where Jones is at.

He should be competing with Forrest, Nog, Rashad/Rampage, he should be in the mixt for a title shot after two wins or so after his next fight.


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## astrallite (Mar 14, 2010)

Like I mentioned in the thread with Machida, Jon Jones has an 85 inch reach, which is the longest recorded reach in the UFC. Most of the guys in the 205 division have a 74-76 inch reach. If he develops a counter-striking style, he's going to be nigh-unbeatable. The way to beat a counter striker is to charge in and clinch--but that would be a mistake with Jones and his wrestling.

Shogun's strategy of the timed overhand right to catch Machida as he counters the kicks would have failed miserably vs Jon Jones--Jones would land the counter, and Shogun's overhand right wouldn't even reach Jones' face. Also Shogun isn't exactly known for his high level wrestling, so he has to figure a way to beat Jones standing up. Good luck Shogun!


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

astrallite said:


> Like I mentioned in the thread with Machida, Jon Jones has an 85 inch reach, which is the longest recorded reach in the UFC. Most of the guys in the 205 division have a 74-76 inch reach. If he develops a counter-striking style, he's going to be nigh-unbeatable. The way to beat a counter striker is to charge in and clinch--but that would be a mistake with Jones and his wrestling.


Reach is not everything and while I do think that Jon Jones is incredible and will do amazing things, I have to see him against top of the line talent before saying that he will be untouchable. Roy Nelson definitely showed that reach is not everything when he made short work of Stefan Struve.


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## astrallite (Mar 14, 2010)

Thing about Struve is, he's so tall that he's basically punching diagonally downward at his opponent, which actually reduces his reach, whereas even if you have shorter reach, you can punch forward and hit Struve in the neck or throat.

This is why height/wingspan ratio is more important than pure reach. Struve's 6'11 and has a 6'11 wingspan, which makes him a borderline T-Rex. Most athletes in general have greater reach than their height (give you an example, Alonzo Mourning is 6'9½, and has a 7'6½ wingspan, or even in MMA, Brock Lesnar is either 6'2 or 6'3, and has a 6'9 wingspan); so I'm actually very surprised at how short Struve's arms are. 

(To tell you the truth, the first time I saw Struve's wingspan during the pre-fight announcement in the Buentello fight, the first thing I thought was--Lyoto Machida-Rex again). 

Take me for example. I'm 6'0½ with a 78½ inch reach. Where Struve finds his range to punch me, I could easily hit Struve in the throat. I don't have to move forward at all to box with him, so he has no length advantage.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> Reach is not everything and while I do think that Jon Jones is incredible and will do amazing things, I have to see him against top of the line talent before saying that he will be untouchable. Roy Nelson definitely showed that reach is not everything when he made short work of Stefan Struve.


Stefan Struve aint no Jon Jones.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Stefan Struve aint no Jon Jones.


I wasn't saying that at all, I was merely pointing out the fact that reach is not everything. Jones does have a substantial reach advantage over everyone he fights, but that does not mean that he will demolish everyone in the LHW division.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

HitOrGetHit said:


> I wasn't saying that at all, I was merely pointing out the fact that reach is not everything. Jones does have a substantial reach advantage over everyone he fights, but that does not mean that he will demolish everyone in the LHW division.


Reach is everything when you know how to utilize it correctly. If Jones can train on using that Reach to his advantage and i mean really working on it, he could cause a lot of problems in the division in the striking department as well as the wrestling.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Mckeever said:


> Reach is everything when you know how to utilize it correctly. If Jones can train on using that Reach to his advantage and i mean really working on it, he could cause a lot of problems in the division in the striking department as well as the wrestling.


Reach is everything if you know how to use it and your opponent does not know how to deal with it. If he faces an opponent that can deal with a long reach, then the he will have to rely on more than his reach advantage.

For the record, I am excited to see how Jon Jones does, I just need to see him get a big win before I really start thinking about him dominating the LHW division. He has the skills and he definitely has the camp to be one of the best, if not the best in the division. He just need a big test.


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## astrallite (Mar 14, 2010)

One of the reasons almost nobody could beat Lennox Lewis (he went 41-2 and won two gold medals) was his 84 inch reach. Dude would just jab everybody to death and keep his distance.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

astrallite said:


> One of the reasons almost nobody could beat Lennox Lewis (he went 41-2 and won two gold medals) was his 84 inch reach. Dude would just jab everybody to death and keep his distance.


This isn't a great example. Boxing is an entirely different sport than MMA. Lewis didn't have to worry about wrestling or kicks at all and boxing defense and cinching is different as well.

If I were to use a boxing example though I would throw out Mike Tyson. Yes Lennox defeated him, but Tyson did outstanding in the heavyweight division where he usually had the shorter reach in his fights.


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