# Erick Silva, how good is that "kid" and can be beat GSP ?



## Gustafsson Fan (Apr 3, 2012)

I was a bit surprised that he is 28 years old. I thought he was an upcomer like Jon Jones around age 23-25.

Erick has experience and should be around his peak then ?

How does Erick Silva match up to GSP in 

- Standup
- Ground game 
- Physique (stamina + strength)

M*y thoughts:*

S*tandup:* Ericks speed seems better than GSP while GSP seems to have more tools in the standup. Erick has powerful frequent kicks while I think GSP has better boxing. I score this category EVEN

*Ground game:* Ericks seems stronger than GSP in grappling, chokes etc while GSP has better takedown defence and takedowns (better balance). I score this category GSP

*Physique:* I think Erick Silva has the better pace throughout a long fight. I also think Erick has the better chin. I score this category for ERICK SILVA

*Summary:* I have Erick Silva vs George St Pierre a tie 1 - 1 - 1 in categories. What do you guys think about this possible future match up ?


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Gustafsson Fan said:


> *Physique:* I think Erick Silva have the better pace throughout a long fight. I also think Erick has better chin. I score this category for ERICK SILVA


I haven't seen much of Silva but his been to the 3rd round only 3 times and not once in the UFC, how can you possibly assume he has the better cardio of the two?


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## xxpillowxxjp (Aug 23, 2010)

Rauno said:


> I haven't seen much of Silva but his been to the 3rd round only 3 times and not once in the UFC, how can you possibly assume he has the better cardio of the two?


Thinking the same thing...


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## Gustafsson Fan (Apr 3, 2012)

Rauno said:


> I haven't seen much of Silva but his been to the 3rd round only 3 times and not once in the UFC, how can you possibly assume he has the better cardio of the two?


I can assume by looking at his pace and posture in fights. I watched some of his old fights before UFC as well on youtube. Assuming is easy, knowing is hard. Why do not you tell me how you meisure this matchup yourself ?


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## RearNaked (Jul 20, 2012)

We'll know soon enough. 

Pointless thread, really.


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## Gustafsson Fan (Apr 3, 2012)

ROFL!
Talk about grumpy bitter guys here. 
What's the matter with you today, you got testosterone deficiency depression or what ?


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Gustafsson Fan said:


> I can assume by looking at his pace and posture in fights. I watched some of his old fights before UFC as well on youtube. Assuming is easy, knowing is hard. Why do not you tell me how you meisure this matchup yourself ?


Like i said, i haven't seen nearly enough of Erick Silva to make a prediction. Going to look up more of his stuff later today. 


RearNaked said:


> We'll know soon enough.
> 
> Pointless thread, really.


Good thread.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

I think he's shown some great technique and killer instinct but that's about where it ends. It's far too early to make comparisons when his best win is over Brenneman.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Team Nogueira fighter, black belt Judoka, black belt Jiu Jitsu, very confident and very powerful striking, great fight instincts and always looking to finish opponent. Kid is trouble.

Typical Brazilian fighter you think, some are more successful than others but WW is wrestler heavy. This kid trains with the American wrestler in mind and it shows in his fights, Erick Silva is going to be a big problem for everyone in the division. He's like a young Shogun or Anderson that has put more emphasis on wrestling defense, he can do what Aldo and Silva do and IMO his hardest fight right now would be Nick Diaz.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

^ Erick Silva vs Nick Diaz? 
That's a crazy fight, i want it! raise01:


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Gustafsson Fan said:


> I can assume by looking at his pace and posture in fights. I watched some of his old fights before UFC as well on youtube. Assuming is easy, knowing is hard. Why do not you tell me how you meisure this matchup yourself ?


Has it occurred to you that maybe GSP maintains the pace he does because he assumes his fights will go five rounds?

The fact is he dominates his opponents for five rounds at a time and never seems to gas. Cardio is, at worst, a wash.

As for the rest of the matchup - the striking is close, but irrelevant. GSP is the best MMA wrestler ever. if he wants to take the fight to the ground, it goes to the ground. Is Silva a good enough grappler to submit GSP off his back? Doubtful.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Yes, Erick Silva vs Nick Diaz should definitely be the fight to make once Nick comes back.

Win or lose against Fitch, Silva/Diaz has to happen.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

He's fun to watch and he does seem like a good talent but a lot of people seem to think just because he got back up from underneath Brenneman he'll do the same to Fitch.

This Fitch fight will tell us a lot, if the only thing that saves him is the ref's standing him back up, he's got no hope against GSP, but if he can stuff Fitch's takedowns or get back up that'd say a lot. Fitch is much better than Brenneman.

But I don't like him and I do like Fitch so I hope he gets fitched.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> But I don't like him and I do like Fitch so I hope he gets fitched.


Whats not to like?


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Joabbuac said:


> Whats not to like?


He's fighting Fitch.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> He's fighting Fitch.


You dislike people who fight fighters you like? Thats ridiculous, who they fight makes them what they are....


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

he will murder GSP....needs more time though, but i think hes the new type of breed that was amazing striking and also has good TDD, i dont see many guys who can beat him at WW, i think he beats diaz, kampmann, hendricks, ellenberger (though this one is a tougher call, cuz of his amazing power) and yes..fitch

one thing i think he really needs to work on is his pace, its TOO fast, gets too sloppy...he needs to fight a little smarter


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Silva reminds me of a Pride Shogun. Has that same berserker style, brutal power in his kicks and a very solid, aggressive grappling game.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Silva reminds me of a Pride Shogun. Has that same berserker style, brutal power in his kicks and a very solid, aggressive grappling game.


It's a very hard formula to deal with and it makes for very entertaining fights, conditioning and toughness is the key to implementing this fight style fully.

Erick has the tools and mentality to put on mad fights for a while to come, and take out big names in doing so.

I wouldn't ponder the GSP question until he fights Condit, his injury is no joke and if he were to lose the title I'm not sure he'd bother trying to get it back.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

SM33 said:


> It's a very hard formula to deal with and it makes for very entertaining fights, *conditioning and toughness is the key to implementing this fight style fully.*
> 
> Erick has the tools and mentality to put on mad fights for a while to come, and take out big names in doing so.
> 
> I wouldn't ponder the GSP question until he fights Condit, his injury is no joke and if he were to lose the title I'm not sure he'd bother trying to get it back.


Definitely.

Completely agree with the GSP/Condit point too. For the first time in years I'm actually backing GSP's opponent.

I think people may be underestimating the severity of GSP's injury and lay off and also underestimating Condits skill set.

Carlos has the tools on the feet and the ground to give GSP all sorts of problems, combine that with his ridiculous killer instinct, and I think he's a nightmare match up for GSP.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

Joabbuac said:


> You dislike people who fight fighters you like? Thats ridiculous, who they fight makes them what they are....


Why would I root for someone who is fighting one of my favorite fighters? Especially when it's Fitch.


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

Erick Silva has great technique, he's fearless, and he's very aggressive... as far as the GSP question goes, I'll simply say out of those three traits GSP only has one. That isn't to say of course there isn't a list of things GSP outshines him in.

Either way, as my sig does read, and has read for a very long time... Erick Silva is the future of the 170lbs division.

Also, to the OP... men tend to "peak" more in their very early 30s physically... so if he stays healthy and active, we haven't seen the best Erick Silva yet. Of course the same can be said or GSP.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

PLEASE DON'T POST THESE THREADS!

I would love to be a Gustaf or Weidman fan, but because their skills are so insanley overrated around the forums I've found myself hating them. I'm a big Erick Silva fan and the more "He's the best in the divison" threads that get posted, the more I'll want the guy to lose.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> PLEASE DON'T POST THESE THREADS!
> 
> I would love to be a Gustaf or Weidman fan, but because their skills are so insanley overrated around the forums I've found myself hating them. I'm a big Erick Silva fan and the more "He's the best in the divison" threads that get posted, the more I'll want the guy to lose.


im with you on gustaf....i dont understand his hype at all, but weidman? come on son


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> PLEASE DON'T POST THESE THREADS!
> 
> I would love to be a Gustaf or Weidman fan, but because their skills are so insanley overrated around the forums I've found myself hating them. I'm a big Erick Silva fan and the more "He's the best in the divison" threads that get posted, the more I'll want the guy to lose.


Elaborate.


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## killua (Mar 4, 2012)

Based on pre-injury form, GSP wins each category. Boxing is more important IMO when you're also such a good wrestler. Silva can go for his kicks, GSP would most likely take him down even easier.

GSP is the best wrestler for take downs and TDD. And can easily control the fight from top.

With regards to stamina, GSP is able to implement his game play through 5 rounds, and doesn't seem to gas. I can't see how he loses this category, while Silva is an unknown quantity in championship rounds.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

ACTAFOOL said:


> im with you on gustaf....i dont understand his hype at all, but weidman? come on son


Gus has a more legit record than weidman. Neither have beaten top level guys but Gus has beaten more mid level fighters by far. Weidman beat the overhyped mark Munoz who was coming off a long layoff and surgery that's it. 

I think they are both very good prospects but neither is ready for the champ.

Sent from my Desire HD using VerticalSports.Com App


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Why would I root for someone who is fighting one of my favorite fighters? Especially when it's Fitch.


I didnt ask why you wernt rooting for him....


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> PLEASE DON'T POST THESE THREADS!
> 
> I would love to be a Gustaf or Weidman fan, but because their skills are so insanley overrated around the forums I've found myself hating them. I'm a big Erick Silva fan and the more "He's the best in the divison" threads that get posted, the more I'll want the guy to lose.


Dude, you're NOT the center of this universe, so why should people act acording to what you find best? 
And, why do you change your opinion on a x fighter acording to what other people say?
Feck that shit, if i'm a fan of someone it's because of what they are and the way they fight, what mma fans say on a internet forum doesn't influence that at all.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

Life B Ez said:


> Gus has a more legit record than weidman. Neither have beaten top level guys but Gus has beaten more mid level fighters by far. Weidman beat the overhyped mark Munoz who was coming off a long layoff and surgery that's it.
> 
> I think they are both very good prospects but neither is ready for the champ.
> 
> Sent from my Desire HD using VerticalSports.Com App


I agree that munoz wasnt in the best shape possible but hes a top 5 MW and weidman made him look like an amature, it was very impressive, and i think maia is a tough fight for anyone and the kid beat him on 11 days notice, and just the way he has destroyed every1 else is impressive, his skills on paper are really good, hell i think he could beat gustaf

Gustaf is tall and thats pretty much it, i see potential in him but he has a looong way to go, weak wrestling, very overrated striking, doesnt know how to use his size that well, and nothing special on the ground...average at best, while weidman seems like a bjj prodigy

I have more faith in phil davis than gustaf


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

ACTAFOOL said:


> im with you on gustaf....i dont understand his hype at all, but weidman? come on son


Weidman is a pretty alright guy. Good enough in every area. He's beat no one of note and hasn't really shown why he will be able to survive one round against Anderson.



TheLyotoLegion said:


> Elaborate.


On what part specifically?



AmdM said:


> Dude, you're NOT the center of this universe, so why should people act acording to what you find best?
> And, why do you change your opinion on a x fighter acording to what other people say?
> Feck that shit, if i'm a fan of someone it's because of what they are and the way they fight, what mma fans say on a internet forum doesn't influence that at all.


I made a request based on personal opinion. I can request that people never wear skinny jeans and say 'yolo', and I wish they would act acording to what I find best, but alas it's not the case.

I've never really been a "fan" of Erick, Weidman or Gus. I can respect their skills but am kind of neutral on how I favour them. I'd like to become a fan, but if I see people overrating them constantly it makes me hope they lose to prove that they arent what they are hyped up to be, and in doing so I never really reach the stage to become a fan.


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

Weidman will probably eventually beat Silva, and Gustafsson will be a top 10 LHW for years, but Erick Silva is so over-hyped that it's baffling. 

Charlie Brenneman is his best win.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Weidman is a pretty alright guy. Good enough in every area. He's beat no one of note and hasn't really shown why he will be able to survive one round against Anderson.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Explain to me why you buy into a guy like Erick Silva, who out of his 3 victories in the UFC, only one is still employed and he might very well be on his way out after his last fight, yet you don't buy into guys in Weidman and Gustaffsson. 

Erick's a good fighter and so are Weidman and Gus, but you say things like "Weidman hasn't shown me anything" maybe it's just differing opinions but I can't honestly understand why people look at Weidman the way they do.

He's a guy whose fought through adversity(grueling weight cut against Maia) and has been flawless throughout the rest of his career. Could he beat Anderson? Not sure, but I get the impression people here either don't watch him fight or they just refuse to believe the hype, I'm sure a similar thing happened with Jones back when he was on the rise but I don't really understand why people can buy into someone liike Silva but not into Weidman or Gus.

Like I said in this thread, Fitch/Silva will tell us a lot about Erick and his potential, if the ref's the only thing saving him from getting wrestle ****ed by Fitch, then I might write him off as the "guy" to beat GSP and I'm not quite sure how I'd feel about a fight with Rory and Erick. 

With Weidman, I feel like he could already go in there and put up a decent fight/beat Anderson.

If anyone is over-hyped, out of the Weidman/Silva/Gus class, imo it's Erick but he could change all of that with a victory next week.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Explain to me why you buy into a guy like Erick Silva, who out of his 3 victories in the UFC, only one is still employed and he might very well be on his way out after his last fight, yet you don't buy into guys in Weidman and Gustaffsson.
> 
> Erick's a good fighter and so are Weidman and Gus, but you say things like "Weidman hasn't shown me anything" maybe it's just differing opinions but I can't honestly understand why people look at Weidman the way they do.
> 
> ...


I didn't "buy" into the Erick Silva hype, and pretty much the reason for my post is for people to stop placing him so highly up the ladder.

As for Weidman, why is he up so high? It makes no sense to me.

Sakara = 7-7 in the UFC and has lost to loads of nobodies.
Bongfeldt = No longer in the UFC.
Lawlor = 5-4 in UFC with loses to low tier fighters.
Maia = Strong opponent, but Weidman looked terrible.
Munoz = Overrated opponent who looked terrible, but a legit win.

In my books, Weidman has only looked good against a decent opponent once, and the words "decent opponent" are being used loosley when I refer to Munoz. If he was to beat Sonnen, Bisping, Belfort, hell even a low enough level guy like Okami, then fair enough, but with only one legit win I dont see why he's this "Amazing title contender who has the best chance ever of beating Anderson Silva". I see Anderson finishing him without too much trouble and everyone saying "Well Weidman was overrated anyways...".


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I didn't "buy" into the Erick Silva hype, and pretty much the reason for my post is for people to stop placing him so highly up the ladder.
> 
> As for Weidman, why is he up so high? It makes no sense to me.
> 
> ...


I respect that opinion but outside of Maia, Weidman didn't have a single problem with any of those guys, and honestly, you give me Weidman with a full camp, I don't have any doubt he'd have lit Maia up that night. He completely man handled all of them and has showed some serious grappling along the way which is I guess you could say is the "weakest" part of Anderson's game, which is what makes him an interesting opponent, imo.

I'd be up for a GSP/Silva fight in 2013, provided they both win, but I'll have to see how he can do against Fitch before I fully jump on that train.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I didn't "buy" into the Erick Silva hype, and pretty much the reason for my post is for people to stop placing him so highly up the ladder.
> 
> As for Weidman, why is he up so high? It makes no sense to me.
> 
> ...


i used to think like this about most hyped up fighters, until JBJ wrecked every former LHW champ, now i see that these new kids pick things up fast and some just seem to be way ahead of the game

weidman is a big MW, has sick wrestling (im sure he could take AS down no problemas) and also has amazing bjj...now i dont think he could sub AS but hes also working on his GnP and trying to use his elbows like JBj...thats scary

its just impressive how this kid destroyed these guys, sure they arent the best but they are tough fighters and weidman is making it look easy just like JBJ did

his MMA wrestling is very impressive and the way hes picked up BJJ is amazing, even if he had only beat nobodys if you look at his skills on paper hes a very serious threat to AS and im probably andersons biggest nuthugger here...thats a fight that scares me lol but hey i could be wrong...time will tell right


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> I respect that opinion but outside of Maia, Weidman didn't have a single problem with any of those guys, and honestly, you give me Weidman with a full camp, I don't have any doubt he'd have lit Maia up that night. He completely man handled all of them and has showed some serious grappling along the way which is I guess you could say is the "weakest" part of Anderson's game, which is what makes him an interesting opponent, imo.
> 
> I'd be up for a GSP/Silva fight in 2013, provided they both win, but I'll have to see how he can do against Fitch before I fully jump on that train.


Yeah Weidman kicked all of their asses, but anyone with a good all round game pretty much does the exact same. Theres a difference between easily beating Sakara and surviving a round with Anderson. I think Weidman has showed an alright game all round, but as he hasnt shown to be one of the best in any specific area I dont think he can be hyped at the level he is just yet. I think Bisping beats him if they fight. Bisping is a great grappler too, and I think Bisping will be able to use intelligent boxing to steal the rounds. I HATE that Weidman is fighting Tim next because that's really the fight that makes sense for a #1 contendership. I also agree that he beats Maia quite easily in a rematch.

EDIT: I dont think Anderson's weakest point is his "grappling", it's more his TDD. On the ground or with the takedowns, Sonnen is a lot better than Weidman so as he could rush Anderson to get him down and stay in the guard with GnP to keep him there, Weidman will need to get a clinch together, work a double against the cage etc., and at that I think Anderson won't have much trouble tying him up on the ground until he gets back up and wins by knockout.



ACTAFOOLGUY said:


> i used to think like this about most hyped up fighters, until JBJ wrecked every former LHW champ, now i see that these new kids pick things up fast and some just seem to be way ahead of the game
> 
> weidman is a big MW, has sick wrestling (im sure he could take AS down no problemas) and also has amazing bjj...now i dont think he could sub AS but hes also working on his GnP and trying to use his elbows like JBj...thats scary
> 
> ...


I dont really see what warrents "amazing BJJ". If he got put on his back by say Sonnen, I dont see him pulling off a triangle to finish the fight. I mean he trains BJJ and he might of picked it up quite quickly, but I think that particular adjective is a little extreme.

JBJ was different. Jones has so many assets and showed every one of them through his rise. His wrestling was shown to be pretty good, his ground and pound was great, and when he used his natural advantages to control the striking game, he made for one of the most unstoppable guys ever in the UFC. Weidman to me, just hasnt shown anything THAT different. He's a pretty good wrestler with pretty good striking and pretty good submissions. I don't see ANYTHING Anderson struggles with against him. Anderson has dealt with a more difficult wrestler in Chael, a better striker like Vitor, a better BJJ guy like Maia. I don't see a single aspect of Weidman's game that would trouble Anderson. I could see Bisping working Anderson over in a boring fight against the cage, but that's not quite Weidman's style and I dont see one part that troubles him.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Very good. he won't beat GSP though.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Yeah Weidman kicked all of their asses, but anyone with a good all round game pretty much does the exact same. Theres a difference between easily beating Sakara and surviving a round with Anderson. I think Weidman has showed an alright game all round, but as he hasnt shown to be one of the best in any specific area I dont think he can be hyped at the level he is just yet. I think Bisping beats him if they fight. Bisping is a great grappler too, and I think Bisping will be able to use intelligent boxing to steal the rounds. I HATE that Weidman is fighting Tim next because that's really the fight that makes sense for a #1 contendership. I also agree that he beats Maia quite easily in a rematch.
> 
> EDIT: I dont think Anderson's weakest point is his "grappling", it's more his TDD. On the ground or with the takedowns, Sonnen is a lot better than Weidman so as he could rush Anderson to get him down and stay in the guard with GnP to keep him there, Weidman will need to get a clinch together, work a double against the cage etc., and at that I think Anderson won't have much trouble tying him up on the ground until he gets back up and wins by knockout.
> 
> ...


well hes barley started BJJ and hes already doing well in ADCC, he has a natural talent when it comes to grappling, maia is great at bjj but needs to work on his TDs

weidman has a sick combination of great wrestling (i think you're underestimating his wrestling...or maybe im overrating it, but i think he outwresltes any1 at 185) size, and bjj...and his striking is getting better and better...

i think his size is something ppl tend to overlook, hes a big MW...i think he could easily bully guys around with his skills + size...i doubt anderson would be able to triangle him, but i wonder if weidman is fast enough to shoot on andy, his footwork is very good..it would be a very interesting fight, obviously i never bet against andy but i would be more worried about weidman than say sonnen or vitor


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Lets see how he does against Fitch before we even begin speaking his name in the same sentence as GSP. Lets be honest his biggest win by far came over a guy who just got cut from the UFC. 14-2 is impressive but name one guy besides Brenneman that he beat, 99% of users could not answer that. (And lets be honest if it wasn't for the Story fight we wouldn't know him either)

Lets be real he has fought nobody of any noteriety so to start comparing him to one of the P4P best. 

IMO the Fitch fight will tell us a lot about the guy or at least I hope it will. I don't want to see a flash knock out I want to see him pressed or see him press Fitch. Then we can maybe see how good he is. Lets not call him Kid though the man is only 3 years younger than GSP and only 4 years younger than BJ Penn. For comparison at 28 GSP had already become champ twice and beat the likes of Hughes, Kos, Fitch and Penn. By 28 BJ had already held titles in two weight classes and established a fairly decent legacy. Silva is not the young up and comer just a guy that is finally getting his shot.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

St.Paul Guy said:


> Weidman will probably eventually beat Silva, and Gustafsson will be a top 10 LHW for years, but Erick Silva is so over-hyped that it's baffling.
> 
> Charlie Brenneman is his best win.


Never understood this argument. So because he only has 3 fights in the UFC and hasn't been given a real tough opponent (until now, his 4th fight he is getting a guy that had been top 3 for years) he has to be overhyped?

Is he supposed to fight Nick Diaz in the street to justify the hype? How can he fight anyone he hasn't been given?

So if he straight KO'd Fitch is he still overhyped? If not, Why would 1 punch change everything. How does 1 punch mean he is the real deal?

You are saying he is over-hyped because he hasn't been given a top UFC fighter yet. There is more to looking at their records on wiki or sherdog. From what I have seen Silva has real skill.

Silva came into the Brenneman fight and had people say "oh Silva probably has no TDD so Brenneman might just lay on him. Silva wasn't even much of a favorite. He ended up tooling him and subbing him. 

I think Fitch is going to get tooled here. And then everyone will all of sudden go from he is over-hyped to this kid is a beast.


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## Vale_Tudo (Nov 18, 2007)

His biggest win is Brenneman who was just released.

Alot of this will be answered after the Fitch fight, but as of right now I havent see any single area this kid is better than GSP except "agressiveness" if there is such a thing to be better at. 

I need to see more than 4-5 minutes of this guy before I start wondering If he can beat one of the greatest of all time.


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## OHKO (Jul 11, 2010)

To be honest, I don't think Silva can even get past Fitch, let alone get a win over GSP.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

For the record I don't think he can beat GSP. 

But I think he beats Fitch. And with confidence, his skills, and his camp, who knows where he will be in a couple years. 

I think he beats Fitch though. And the UFC is setting him up to feed off a big name.

Let That Boy Cook!


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Never understood this argument. So because he only has 3 fights in the UFC and hasn't been given a real tough opponent (until now, his 4th fight he is getting a guy that had been top 3 for years) he has to be overhyped?
> 
> Is he supposed to fight Nick Diaz in the street to justify the hype? How can he fight anyone he hasn't been given?
> 
> ...


I'm not saying he isn't good. I'm just saying there is no evidence to suggest that he is in the same class as the names being thrown around in this thread.

He has yet to fight even a mediocre UFC fighter, and I'll reserve judgment until he does. Beating Fitch would be a good start to validate the hype, but frankly I have no idea how good Fitch is anymore, so pretty much no matter what happens on Saturday it's going to be hard to say where he is at with any real confidence.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

St.Paul Guy said:


> I'm not saying he isn't good. I'm just saying there is no evidence to suggest that he is in the same class as the names being thrown around in this thread.
> 
> He has yet to fight even a mediocre UFC fighter, and I'll reserve judgment until he does. Beating Fitch would be a good start to validate the hype, but frankly I have no idea how good Fitch is anymore, so pretty much no matter what happens on Saturday it's going to be hard to say where he is at with any real confidence.


So on one hand you are saying we don't know what Silva is beause he hasn't fought anyone relevant in the UFC.

On the other hand you say if he beats Fitch you still can't say what he is.

So what is he supposed to do? Is Fitch not a top 10 fighter? 

Reguardless of who Silva has beat, he has beat them in impressive/easy fashion. The skills he has shown in my eyes are top 10 level talent. He has one of the betters camps/teams in the whole sport. He is well-rounded. He has a killer instinct that can't be denied.

We will see what happens. Call it hype. But it is more of a prediction/opinion. I think Erick Silva can be a top 5 type of WW. Is he now? No. But he will only get better opponents from here. He has the skills to be very very good. And from what I have seen, the right attitude.

It is no more hype than Rory has got. He beat a 155er Nate Diaz. Be Che Mills and people are calling him the future at WW once GSP leaves. Probably less hype.


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## Big_Charm (Jan 7, 2011)

SM33 said:


> It's a very hard formula to deal with and it makes for very entertaining fights, conditioning and toughness is the key to implementing this fight style fully.
> 
> Erick has the tools and mentality to put on mad fights for a while to come, and take out big names in doing so.
> 
> I wouldn't ponder the GSP question until he fights Condit, his injury is no joke and if he were to lose the title I'm not sure he'd bother trying to get it back.


I like the thinking behind this. Silva def. reminds me of the young Berserker from PRIDE :thumb02:

GSP has been soo dominant, but this injury he's had ends most guys careers.

I'd love to see how he handles Condit. Back to the Silva debate... is he a talent and force to be reckoned with? Yes

Can he beat GSP now? Not a chance, but he's growing in the sport and these young guys are definitely evolving quicker with each generation.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Never understood this argument. So because he only has 3 fights in the UFC and hasn't been given a real tough opponent (until now, his 4th fight he is getting a guy that had been top 3 for years) he has to be overhyped?
> 
> Is he supposed to fight Nick Diaz in the street to justify the hype? How can he fight anyone he hasn't been given?
> 
> ...


This. I said earlier that I dont want people to start over hyping him and to this point, I dont think they are. He's mainly regarded as "the future", and for the time being, Condit, GSP and Diaz are really the only names in the title picture. Silva may just get there, but on his current record and the skill set he has shown thus far, a thread like this gets to me. Silva has a lot of tough battles and proving grounds to go through before he even gets a shot at GSP. He might just get there, but the experience he will gain throughout the process will be ultimatley what wins him it. Right this second, to say he beats GSP is where the overhyping starts, and then you get guys like the one you quoted almost wanting him to lose because they are being overrated. I just want us to all sit back, see how he does against a great opponent in Fitch, and even if he smashes it, give him time and the opprtunity to become a championship fighter without just throwing an unproven name in the mix.



ACTAFOOL said:


> well hes barley started BJJ and hes already doing well in ADCC, he has a natural talent when it comes to grappling, maia is great at bjj but needs to work on his TDs
> 
> weidman has a sick combination of great wrestling (i think you're underestimating his wrestling...or maybe im overrating it, but i think he outwresltes any1 at 185) size, and bjj...and his striking is getting better and better...
> 
> i think his size is something ppl tend to overlook, hes a big MW...i think he could easily bully guys around with his skills + size...i doubt anderson would be able to triangle him, but i wonder if weidman is fast enough to shoot on andy, his footwork is very good..it would be a very interesting fight, obviously i never bet against andy but i would be more worried about weidman than say sonnen or vitor


He might have amazing BJJ for his level, but you said earlier point blank 'amazing', which I think is a big over-statement. I don't think Anderson would sub him, because I've said a million times Anderson's BJJ gets overrated by people around here, but at the same time I don't feel his top grappling would be enough to pass on Anderson (as Spider has recently improved his bottom game a lot as shown in the Sonnen 2 fight). Maia can only really fight a wrestler. He beat Sonnen because a guy like Sonnen is designed for Maia to win. Against a smart wrestler who will use his hands to avoid the ground like Weidman or Koscheck, Maia's one dimentional game doesnt really stand up so well.

Weidman might have great wrestling, but theres a big difference between having great wrestling and being a MW champion. I think Weidman hasn't really been tested against someone who would avoid the takedown yet. I think Bisping would be able to keep it standing with him, and unlike the rush and shoot technique of Sonnen, he won't be able to outsmart Anderson to work for the TD. His hands are def improving, but thats just my point. Is the level of "Good enough to beat Anderson" which I hear off other people really a level for a guy who's "hands are improving".

In summary, he's a really good fighter and I take nothing away from his skillset. He's a great wrestler, good grappler, has good submission defence, and decent striking. This is all well and good, but when you're dealing with a man who's faced better wrestlers, has better grappling, has better BJJ and the greatest striking of all time, I don't really understand why they are been put in the same place.

My main issue too was that I don't feel he's done enough. Even with an impressive win over Tim I don't feel he's done enough. Tim is an easy win for him (unless he gets caught), Munoz was an easy win for him, Maia should have been an easy win and the rest were nobodies.

If not Bisping, I'd have liked to see Weidman fight Lombard. Kind of stupid, I know, since Tim beat Hector, but at the same time I think Lombard is going to come out like a killer in his next fight and he is a very complete fighter, so the two biggest tests right now at MW for Weidman would be Bisping and Lombard, neither of which he is fighting.

tl;dr? Don't overhype Erick, and I'm not a big Weidman fan.


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## <M>MA (Nov 20, 2006)

I think Fitch will dry hump him for a win. However, if he does beat Fitch I'd like to see him fight Rory Mac or the loser of GSP v Condit. Nick Diaz would be a great test as well.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

<M>MA said:


> I think Fitch will dry hump him for a win. However, if he does beat Fitch I'd like to see him fight Rory Mac or the loser of GSP v Condit. Nick Diaz would be a great test as well.


I don't think they will let him lay on him for 3 rounds in Brazil.

I doubt they would do Silva/Rory. I bet they want them both to be possible contenders. They usually don't put 2 prospects like that in with eachother. That would be a good matchup though.

I think they give Ellenberger to the winner of Fitch/Silva.


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

jonnyg4508 said:


> *So on one hand you are saying we don't know what Silva is beause he hasn't fought anyone relevant in the UFC.
> 
> On the other hand you say if he beats Fitch you still can't say what he is.*
> 
> ...


Well kind of. It is more about him not ever fighting a guy who can actually challenge him. Josh Neer would have destroyed all 3 of those guys as well, as would have GSP. So all we really know is that he is somewhere between Neer and GSP. That's a lot of uncertainty.

As far as the Fitch thing, all I'm saying is that I don't know if Fitch is still the second best WW, or if he is a shell of his former self with a shot chin and a bad knee, so no matter what happens Silva is a tough read.

Perhaps "over-hyped" was the wrong term to use, but I'm not sure putting him in the same category as Rory Mac in terms of projection is really valid at this point, all things considered.

To be clear, I'm not saying he isn't top 20, or top 10, or even the best WW in the world. I'm saying the majority of people seem to be looking at Erick Silva's run through rose tinted glasses.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

St.Paul Guy said:


> Well kind of. It is more about him not ever fighting a guy who can actually challenge him. Josh Neer would have destroyed all 3 of those guys as well, as would have GSP. So all we really know is that he is somewhere between Neer and GSP. That's a lot of uncertainty.
> 
> As far as the Fitch thing, all I'm saying is that I don't know if Fitch is still the second best WW, or if he is a shell of his former self with a shot chin and a bad knee, so no matter what happens Silva is a tough read.
> 
> ...


There is the difference. I don't look at fighters solely on who they beat. You can't just make up things like Neer could beat all those guys so he is somewhere between Neer and the best. Brenneman may have held down Neer and stayed out of a sub. Neer is irrelevant to this conversation. Rory MacDonald is somewhere between Che Mills and GSP going by this. 

No I think Erick Silva has top 10 talent. So I rank him outside of the top 10 because he doesn't have the wins but able to jump right into it with this win. 

What if Fitch was still the #2 WW? And Silva beat him. Woudld that put him somewhere between 2 and 1? Would that put him #2? I don't think you can just use the math like that. 

He has destroyed all the guys put in front of him in the UFC. With all around skills. I think it is safe to say he is much better than a Neer caliber fighter. But that is just me. 

Using your logic Cain Velasquez is somewhere between Brock Lesnar and JDS.

I don't think anyone has rose tinted glasses on. I think everyone who backs him just respect his variety of skills, athleticism, and killer instinct. No one has said what he has done in the UFC is amazing. But he handled business like he was supposed to in those fights.


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

The comparisons you made were between two fighters that actually fought each other. We have a much clearer picture of where Velasquez is at on a Lesnar - JDS scale, so that argument doesn't hold any water (although both of the statements you made were true, so you weren't even disproving what you thought I was saying :confused02.

Never once did I say anything about him not being good because he hasn't beaten anybody good. Just that no matter how impressive a guy looks against Charlie Brenneman it doesn't tell you much.

Rory MacDonald nearly beat the current interim champ before his 21st birthday, while Silva has yet to beat even a mediocre UFC fighter and he's 28.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I think Rory shows more skills even against weaker opponents. Nate was a weight up, sure, but the way Rory ragdolled him still showed power. Rory's GnP Vs Che Mills was impressive no matter who was on the bottom position. Silva is good but Fitch will show just how good (but not that hes worthy of a title shot or better than GSP...just for the people that'll make those threads if he wins).


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

I know this all happened on page 4, but yes, Weidman has very good BJJ, more of a Jeff Monson style submission grappler than a jiu jitsu player though. 

He's a top game guy but he trains under Serra so I imagine he has a decent guard.

Erick - Hype is justified, he will smash Fitch and smash GSP, i'll take bets from anyone on either of those fights. 

Weidman - I was impressed by the Maia victory considering the circumstances, he wrecked Munoz (who I don't rate very highly), for now the hype is a little strong but in the future he will live up to it. Right now I don't think he has anything for Andy.

Gustafsson - excellent fighter, will fight for the title more than once in his career and if Bones vacates he may well hold the LHW title but I can't see him ever beating Bones.


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## Rob$$oN (Oct 16, 2009)

Has anyone, ever been as wrong, as the author of this topic? LOL!


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## Hiro (Mar 9, 2010)

Fitch bullied him :thumb02:


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

El Bresko said:


> Erick - Hype is justified, he will smash Fitch and smash GSP, i'll take bets from anyone on either of those fights.


What's the excuses Bresko?


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## Rob$$oN (Oct 16, 2009)

I f*cking hate nithuggers, sorry for the bump!


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

I think Erick and Condit both have a lot of parallels actually. Both have a pretty thai heavy stand up game, very diversified. Both have very good ground games that are offense centric. Both are very aggressive as well. Condit, though, isn't nearly as wild as Erick. He's much more controlled in what he does and his punches are much tighter. Condit also has far better cardio. I think Erick is stronger for sure and has heavier hands, but I think GSP would pick him apart and control him. GSP's wrestling is every bit as good as Jon's so I don't see it staying up long if Georges doesn't want to. I think if Erick tightens up his game and minimizes his gaps standing and then gets some TDD he has a solid chance. As it stands, he gets smoked 99/100 fights. He's got a punchers chance, but I don't give him much more based solely on GSP'S tool set and Erick's weaknesses. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using VerticalSports.Com App


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## zath the champ (Feb 13, 2008)

I'd say he still has a ton of potential and just got introduced to the upper echelon of the division. 

Not the first contender Fitch derailed.....likely not the last. Gas tank could use a little work; but Fitch is not a cardio friendly match up for anyone. (Not that GSP is...)

Give him a few more fights before you disregard him a future champ. 28 is not too old to improve.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> What's the excuses Bresko?


No excuses, Fitch was clearly the better man. Erick will be back.

If Erick had won i'd be close to $5000 richer than I am right now.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

IF Silva is smart, he'll use this loss to show him the things he needs to work on and come back stronger.

IMO he took Fitch too lightly and paid the price.


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## zath the champ (Feb 13, 2008)

Killz said:


> IF Silva is smart, he'll use this loss to show him the things he needs to work on and come back stronger.
> 
> IMO he took Fitch too lightly and paid the price.


The more I think about this fight, the more I think this was just a terrible stylistic match up for Silva.

At first the commentary got the better of me, and I was thinking he just didn't respect Fitch.

Re-watching the fight, and previous ones, there weren't many ways Silva won this.

Alves vs. Fitch - striking defense
GSP vs. Fitch - cardio and ability to absorb damage (heart)
Penn vs. Fitch - taking the back will not lead to a sub (relentless work from guard)

Outside of the flash KO and GSP mauling, Fitch is just too much for most WWs and has the record to prove it.

His ability to control where the fight takes place and insane cardio mixed with amazing sub defense and wrestling background just don't match up well to...hell...anyone not named GSP.

We saw Silva land heavy strikes and take dominate positions (RNC should have sealed the deal) to virtually no effect. Fitch never let up and stayed with the game-plan.

Silva may be able to best Fitch in a future re-match, but he will be more successful against the rest of the division. 

Instead of thinking Silva didn't respect Fitch enough, I'm left wondering if it was the fans who didn't instead. :/


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## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

FINALLY an exciting fight from Jon Fitch! And someone please tell me how that 3rd round was not a 10/8? The fight could have been stopped and most likely would have if it wasn't in Brazil. It seems to me that the refs were letting the Brazilian fighters hang in there longer than usual.


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## Finnsidious (Mar 14, 2009)

kc1983 said:


> FINALLY an exciting fight from Jon Fitch! And someone please tell me how that 3rd round was not a 10/8? The fight could have been stopped and most likely would have if it wasn't in Brazil. It seems to me that the refs were letting the Brazilian fighters hang in there longer than usual.


 It should have been stopped, I agree it probably would have been if it weren't in Brazil. Silva had clearly given up by the end of the fight, and there were a couple times he was obviously not defending himself intelligently. Fitch just mauled him.

I guess that will put an end to this 'Erick could beat GSP' lollerskates.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

kc1983 said:


> FINALLY an exciting fight from Jon Fitch! And someone please tell me how that 3rd round was not a 10/8? The fight could have been stopped and most likely would have if it wasn't in Brazil. It seems to me that the refs were letting the Brazilian fighters hang in there longer than usual.


I agree with all of this, but is there really that big a difference between a 29/28 score and a 30/26 score? At the end of the day a UD is a UD. And I'm OK with the fight not being stopped. It wasn't that different to the end of Rua vs Henderson.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

kc1983 said:


> FINALLY an exciting fight from Jon Fitch! And someone please tell me how that 3rd round was not a 10/8? The fight could have been stopped and most likely would have if it wasn't in Brazil. It seems to me that the refs were letting the Brazilian fighters hang in there longer than usual.


It wasn't. Silva didn't get knocked down, nor was he really wobbly. Fitch dominated most of the round and the mount was good, but it wasn't necessarily 10-8 worthy. Silva got out from under the mount due to his own effort, so it was right to not stop the fight. Fitch just didn't do any real damage.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

El Bresko said:


> No excuses, Fitch was clearly the better man. Erick will be back.
> 
> If Erick had won i'd be close to $5000 richer than I am right now.


Haha i'm only joking man, just saw the comment after. How did you see Silva winning the fight? After watching over, I felt his takedown defence was quite bad in the Brenneman fight and although he could shoot back up, I thought he'd be held down by Fitch (as he was). I didnt know that Fitch had at good sub defence, so I had a possible win for Silva there. Really, he was always losing the scorecards in my books. He could only land a big shot or catch a sub to win it to me (despite most thinking he was heading for a big win and title challenge).


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