# This Randy/Lesnar fight has got me puzzled, lets break it down



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

I have no idea what is going to happen in this fight. I have never been more confused or lost when it comes to picking a fight than I am with this one. I think Randy is going to win this but I have no idea how. I believe Lesnar will be the better wrestler and should be able to get Randy to the mat and on his back if he wants to. So if I have Randy winning this fight, is he gona win by a submission off his back?? I really dont see that happening. Do I see Randy putting Brock on his back and working some ground and pound?? No I really dont see that either. What about striking, will Randy outstrike Lesnar? Yea he will, but I see Lesnar taking him down as soon as that starts to happen. So what does this all mean?? Do I really have Lesnar beating Couture? I really dont know at this point but I wouldnt be shocked. This fight is 50/50 for me. But if I had to guess, Id say after losing 2 out of the first 3 rounds, Randy ends up on top of Brock in a scramble and ends up finishing Brock with strikes from half guard. I think if Randy can some how put Brock on his back he will make him look like a fish out of water. Especially in the late rounds, Lesnar may tire and Randy could outwork him.

I would like to hear a break down of this fight from you guys. i see alot of people picking Couture. I want to pick some of you guys' brains and se if Im missing something in my breakdown.


----------



## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

rubber guard can save randy


----------



## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

dontazo said:


> rubber guard can save randy


bahahaha

the day i see 45 year old randy couture use a rubber guard on a man w/ a back the size of a sheet of plywood is the day i bang martha stewart


----------



## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

I don't see how Randy can win this fight on the ground. If he can keep the fight standing he could outscore Lesnar if he could avoid taking a big shot. If Lesnar lands a shot like he did on Herring then I don't see Randy being able to win it. On the other side, I think Lesnar will be able to take Randy down, but I don't know that I can see him finishing him short of a ref stoppage. It is a tough fight to call, physically Lesnar should be able to completely dominate Randy, and his wrestling might be just as good as Randy's. On the other hand nobody in this sport can gameplan like Randy, question is, how do you game plan for Lesnar with Randy's toolbag? Awfully hard to call but I'm leaning towards Lesnar.


----------



## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

This should be a really interesting fight. 

Everything Randy does, Brock can do just as good or better. 

Wrestling - advantage to Lesnar
Strength - Lesnar
Takedowns - Lesnar
KO Power - Lesnar

The biggest weakness Randy will be able to expose is Lesnar's lack of experience, especially on the ground. We've seen Randy take down some pretty big, strong dudes. But I'd imagine that trying to move Lesnar would be like trying to move a tree stump. 

If Randy can get in Lesnar's face, get him up against the cage and work his clinch to set up a takedown then he could win the fight, same way he won against big tim.


----------



## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

i don't think randy can hurt lesnar standing frankly....i think if brock gets one takedown...the fights over...donkey kong GnP FTW

brock just needs to learn how to properly GnP from guard/half guard and he'll finish randy...if brock postures and blasts a straight right down the middle, is that blockable?


----------



## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

rubber guard and lot of omaplata transitions imo rubber guard + omaplata = the shit or he can try to go for gogoplata


----------



## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

dontazo said:


> rubber guard and lot of omaplata transitions imo rubber guard + omaplata = the shit or he can try to go for gogoplata


Unless you are stretch Armstrong, anything ending in 'plata is out of the question with Lesnar.


----------



## LeeM (Nov 23, 2007)

I think rubber guard and Randy Couture in the same sentence are out of the question also to be honest.


----------



## flawed888 (Apr 11, 2007)

low kicks, alot of low kicks.

Rich Franklin made a good job against Hamil, doing both damage and stopping take downs.

But I have never really seen Randy do low kicks...


----------



## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

flawed888 said:


> low kicks, alot of low kicks.
> 
> Rich Franklin made a good job against Hamil, doing both damage and stopping take downs.
> 
> But I have never really seen Randy do low kicks...


and most of brock's takedowns have come from grabbing a kick...i wouldn't recommend that


----------



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

A submission is hardly out of the question. Randy has very underrated submission skills. He had a sweet ass anaconda choke on Van Arsdale a couple years back and grappled Jacare to a draw.

I could see Lesnar getting sloppy as the fight gets into the latter rounds and Randy slapping something on him or maybe taking his back. 

But the more I think of this fight, the more and more I give Lesnar a good chance at winning the fight. Randy doesnt like fighting big strong wrestlers.


----------



## TheGamefather (Sep 8, 2008)

flawed888 said:


> low kicks, alot of low kicks.
> 
> Rich Franklin made a good job against Hamil, doing both damage and stopping take downs.
> 
> But I have never really seen Randy do low kicks...


I've seen Lesnar do low kicks...

to OP: This fight isn't hard to figure out, it only seems that way if you start to over think it. Trust your grasp of the obvious; theres no way for Randy to win this fight.

He's going to get murdalized, and once its over people will be left wondering what they thought Couture was going to be able to do.


----------



## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

flawed888 said:


> low kicks, alot of low kicks.
> 
> Rich Franklin made a good job against Hamil, doing both damage and stopping take downs.
> 
> But I have never really seen Randy do low kicks...


He's never been a big kicker, plus Lesnar is faster than Hamil. Did you see him catch Herring's kick, and Herring is known as a guy with pretty good kicks.


----------



## Toro (Aug 11, 2007)

Randy will have to come up with a great gameplan for this fight, like he always does. The way I see Randy winning is with Lesnar on his back against the cage with Randy working the GnP from Lesnar's full or half gaurd. Or Lesnar with his back against the cage but on his feet and Randy working his dirty boxing.

Randy knows he's gotta use the cage to control a man as big as Lesnar and that is exactly what I see happening.


----------



## leifdawg (Jan 1, 2008)

I kinda want to see what happens if Lesnar ever gets put on his back. I imagine he will be tough to keep down because he is so strong and explosive.


----------



## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

Nobody is gonna finish anyone in this fight. I see Randy winning this, and I see him employing the same technique he used against Gonzaga and Sylvia. He outworks the bigger fighter, clings on, uses his wrestling and super human strength to just hold on and chip away at the other guy.

Sure, Lesnar has phenomenal strength and wrestling, but this is MMA and I don't think he can quite put it all together the way Randy can. Plus, Brock doesn't have the same striking/top control/GnP as Ricco or Barnett, so I doubt he will have Couture in that kind of trouble.

Thus I see Randy winning a very hard fought and meticulous decision.


----------



## stitch1z (Dec 9, 2007)

I certainly WANT Randy to win... But I don't see how.

I really hate Brock. :confused05:

I'll be very happy to see Randy win this, but I see a very anti-climactic battle here, with Randy getting pounded out early.

I don't necessarilly think Brock is the "better fighter", but as we all know, styles make fights. And his particular skillset and abilities are going to take Randy out of this fight early IMO.

I'm not putting any money on this fight, but if I were, it would be on Brock.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I'm just wondering if everyone is actually watching Brock's fights or just coming up with biased opinions based on whether they like him or not.

His wrestling isn't that good people. Watch his takedowns they aren't anything special and I don't see him getting Couture down.

Most of his takedowns came on crappy kicks from Herring. And one of them came on a shitty Judo throw. Herring actually stuffed one of his takedowns in round 2.

People are assuming Brock is a great wrestler because of his background and while he is very strong and a good wrestler he defiantly isn't great.

I think Randy will beat him and honestly ATM I don't think he is one of the 4 best wrestlers in the UFC HW divison.


----------



## AceFranklin88 (Apr 21, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> I'm just wondering if everyone is actually watching Brock's fights or just coming up with biased opinions based on whether they like him or not.
> 
> His wrestling isn't that good people. Watch his takedowns they aren't anything special and I don't see him getting Couture down.
> 
> ...


It's nice to see someone bringing this point up again. I'm sick of the blind nuthuggery on Lesnar. Anyway, agreed completely.


----------



## kilik (Oct 12, 2007)

I think if Randy will beat Lesnar then it will be pressuring Lesnar and beating him in the stand up and try to sprawl if Lesnar tries to take him down. Couture has the better clinch game.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

AceFranklin88 said:


> It's nice to see someone bringing this point up again. I'm sick of the blind nuthuggery on Lesnar. Anyway, agreed completely.


While I agree to an extent the blind hatred of Lesnar is annoying to. The guy clearly has talent which some people blindly ignore.


----------



## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Unfortunately, any fighter who disrespects Fedor will incite my blind hatred.

Oh, and the referring to himself in the third person thing. That makes smoke come out of my ears.


----------



## AceFranklin88 (Apr 21, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> While I agree to an extent the blind hatred of Lesnar is annoying to. The guy clearly has talent which some people blindly ignore.


Absolutely. I'm not denying his talent, but it's more annoying to see blind nuthuggers than seeing blind haters. Mainly because of the abundance of his blind nuthuggers who were just dragged over from WWE.


----------



## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

I've said it before, but what I like so much about this fight is that anything can happen. Take a fight like Leben vs. Silva, pretty obvious what was going to happen. This fight, who knows, Brock could land a massive punch like he did on Herring, he could come raging like a madman with a flying knee, maybe Randy will shock us with a 10 second KO, who the hell knows, I know I can't wait to see how it goes down.


----------



## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

Randy will take a page from the Wanderlei Silva playbook and put the knees to Lesnar. Go right into the offensive from the moment the bell rings so that Brock doesn't get in the first punch, hit him with everything he's got from the very start and shatter Brock's confidence.


----------



## mrmyz (Nov 23, 2006)

I see randy couture kicking the crap out of him. He wont go for the take down he will be using all of his grecco skills to keep it standing. Randy has been training with some great boxing coaches the last couple of yeats. Expect to see another showing like the tim sylvia fight. Brocks boxing skills are weak his mt skills are weaker. I bet randy will be hammering his legs with round houses.


----------



## Meshuggeth (May 26, 2008)

If I was Randy I would try to sub Brock, probably with some king of leg or ankle lock.


----------



## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

it can go either way but i dont see randy subbing him


----------



## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

People keep saying that Brock has the advantage in the wrestling department. I have to ask though....what kind of wrestling? Brock is a free style guy, Randy is world class Greco.

If Randy can get a good clinch, or bodylock...then the playing feild is leveled significantly imo. If it happens on the cage, then the advantage goes to Randy in my mind. If he can use the cage to disrupt Brocks balance, or perhaps get a trip, he can easily end up on top....and once that happens, it's going to be all randy all night....until the ref pushes him off that is.


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

dontazo said:


> rubber guard can save randy


Maybe to help him escape and get back up... 

Randy's greatest strength is his Greco-Roman clinch and Dirty Boxing inside that clinch. Brock is a freestyle wrestler and his strengths are in shoots, there is no way he is going to have the experience in the clinch that Randy does, either for takedowns or strikes inside the clinch. So Randy needs to clinch up and throw short punches, elbows, and knees inside that clinch. Keep Brock offguard and wondering where the next strike will come from, prevent him from using sheer strength to work a takedown.

He needs to avoid going to the ground with Brock at all costs imho, we don't know what Brock's chin is like and even if Randy has Brock wounded or tired, who knows whether he will be able to finish him before he gets reversed and on his back will be the absolutely worst position for Randy.

Contrary to what I've heard other people say lately, Randy's submissions are not his best finishing skill, and he's submitted only two people in the last eight years, both by chokes with his arms, not advanced BJJ like triangles or gogo's or even armbars. He might be able to use the rubber guard to secure a reversal, but I think once Brock has him down he will be able to keep him down for the entire round, so Randy needs to stay on his feet at all costs, which means staying in the clinch.

I see Randy winning a decision with clinchwork, but I honestly don't think he will finish Brock.


----------



## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

about the rubber guard i think that technique is under rated


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I think Rubber guard is underrated as well but Randy isn't going to win this fight by using rubber guard.


----------



## mrmyz (Nov 23, 2006)

Flak said:


> People keep saying that Brock has the advantage in the wrestling department. I have to ask though....what kind of wrestling? Brock is a free style guy, Randy is world class Greco.
> 
> If Randy can get a good clinch, or bodylock...then the playing feild is leveled significantly imo. If it happens on the cage, then the advantage goes to Randy in my mind. If he can use the cage to disrupt Brocks balance, or perhaps get a trip, he can easily end up on top....and once that happens, it's going to be all randy all night....until the ref pushes him off that is.


not to mention randy has a more diverese wrestling backround freestyle, folkstyle, grecco and a few others. he has also competed at the world level in various forms of wrestling. I dont see him using his grecco so much though because grecco does favor the larger guy.

I see him using that wrestling to nullify brocks. I honestly see brock losing because of lack of experience. His grappeling is much different after mir but his striking is to wild. I think he will try to go for the take dow wont be able to get it in and randy will ko him.

KO first round Im calling it.


----------



## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

he needs to train with eddie bravo


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Ill take randy on this. Randy has the experience and this guy is a bloody genius when it comes to making and executing game plans. Im not going to lie, lesnar is bigger, stronger, faster (and this dude it ridiculously fast), better wrestler.

Also imo shane carwin is a better fighter than lesnar. They are the same size, carwin is a better striker,better gnp and better submissions. Carwin is a very decorated wrestler, not quite as much as lesnar but not a stretch by any means. I think randy will be ready for lesnar.


----------



## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

but honestly imagine if lesnar learns some sick jitz! he might out power and submit a lot of heavy weights


----------



## S_515_S (Jun 1, 2008)

Loooooooooots Of Leg Kicks And Jabs... Randy Needs To Avoid The Ground At All Costs.


----------



## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

well if he does not punch and kick and IF he "cant " take brock down should he get on his knees and prey ? Randy via prayers


----------



## SpecC (Nov 18, 2007)

This seems like what a lot of people thought when Randy was going to fight Tito, and I can see it going the same way. Eventually, I think Randy will break Brock's spirit with some GnP, and not allowing him to do anything except try to defend. 

It's hard to pick against Brock with that size advantage though...


----------



## Dana White (Mar 12, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> ...donkey kong GnP FTW


What is this "donkey kong" reference I keep hearing. I'm not up to date with the latest slang phrases.

Someone fill me in please. Thanks!


----------



## Satori (Sep 18, 2008)

flawed888 said:


> low kicks, alot of low kicks.


I really think thats gonna be the ticket--- he needs to take Lesnars feet/legs from under him---


O


----------



## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

i say high kicks ! u know i think randys boxing is FINE but his leg kicks suck donkey ass, man not i think what would have happened if cro cop beat gonzaga ...


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Dana White said:


> What is this "donkey kong" reference I keep hearing. I'm not up to date with the latest slang phrases.
> 
> Someone fill me in please. Thanks!


Every played donkey kong? even in the super smash brothers? 

Ok imagine a really really drunk guy tackling another drunk guy and going straight into mount, the punches the really really drunk guys on top would be throwing wildly and powerful and probably some even hitting the ground but hes so drunk he doesnt care. something along those lines, seriously just think about it for a moment xD


----------



## Saiyan3s (Oct 5, 2007)

Lesnar looked so lost on how to finish gnp against Herring that even if he does improves , i dont see him finishing a Randy Couture. This should end up on a decision unless Lesnar makes a mistake and gets caught on a sub..


----------



## Dana White (Mar 12, 2007)

xeberus said:


> Every played donkey kong? even in the super smash brothers?
> 
> Ok imagine a really really drunk guy tackling another drunk guy and going straight into mount, the punches the really really drunk guys on top would be throwing wildly and powerful and probably some even hitting the ground but hes so drunk he doesnt care. something along those lines, seriously just think about it for a moment xD


Thanks for the reply. 

I remember the arcade version of Donkey Kong. Jumping over barrels and climbing ladders was the main objective.


----------



## TheGamefather (Sep 8, 2008)

Dana White said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> I remember the arcade version of Donkey Kong. Jumping over barrels and climbing ladders was the main objective.


It was Heath Herring in one of his cocky prefight interviews, said he knew Lesnar would try and "do the Donkey Kong on my head the way he did to Frank"...


----------



## ash (Oct 15, 2006)

I personally only see Randy winning by using the clinch to set up quick takedowns of some sort. Not the type where he muscles a guy down, the type where he uses leverage / trip. Randy ends up on top and does some damage, Brock panics and its over.

That's how I see it going down if Randy wins, but that's not what I think is going to happen. First off, and I know this has been said a lot of times but its true, Randy is going to be so much smaller than Brock its not funny. Min Soo Kim, Mir, and Herring are all significantly bigger than Randy, and Brock tossed all of them around like rag dolls. Now, I'm not saying that any of those three are comparible directly to Randy, but come on, at some point size and strength do start to matter and I think we're going to see that in this fight. Lesnar is a huge guy who is very strong even given his size. And I believe that he knows how to use that strength. He's not comparible to Tim, Gonzaga or god forbid Sapp...totally different kind of big guy.

Second point: what's basically being discussed here is how Randy would beat the Brock that showed up to fight Herring. I personally thought that Brock looked worlds better in the Herring fight than he did the Mir fight (though obviously he still needs a lot of work), and I believe that he's going to look better again in the fight with Randy. If that happens I think it's going to be a bad night for Couture...

Either way, I'm going to be on the edge of the seat when the fight goes down :thumb02: I hope some of the questions about Lesnar get answered, I would like to see him get hit and see how he deals with it. I wonder if he'll crumble or if it'll just give him the rage? Or in the best case he'll just shrug it off and stay composed.


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

kc1983 said:


> This should be a really interesting fight.
> 
> Everything Randy does, Brock can do just as good or better.
> 
> ...


Since when did Lesnar get KO power? He's never knocked out an opponent and has one knock down and all of a sudden he has KO power?


----------



## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

MJB23 said:


> Since when did Lesnar get KO power? He's never knocked out an opponent and has one knock down and all of a sudden he has KO power?


actually he's knocked down 2.....and the right hand he landed against herring was one of the fastest crosses i've ever seen a HW throw...


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

Ok but he hasn't knocked anyone out has he? So he doesn't have KO power.


----------



## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

MJB23 said:


> Ok but he hasn't knocked anyone out has he? So he doesn't have KO power.


fair point...but given that we've seen him striking for maybe 1 minute total in his mma career and he's managed to rock 2 top HW's badly...i think it's assumed he has KO power...despite not KOing anyone....or at least that's how i'd put it


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

I see what you're saying but I don't want to say he has KO power yet. He is strong and fast but with his lack of technique I'm not sure if he could KO someone.


----------



## TheGamefather (Sep 8, 2008)

MJB23 said:


> Ok but he hasn't knocked anyone out has he? So he doesn't have KO power.


lol, nice logic...

he has the power to blind Heath Herring and turn half his face black and blue with one punch... in his third fight ever.

Edit:



MJB23 said:


> I see what you're saying but I don't want to say he has KO power yet. He is strong and fast but with his lack of technique I'm not sure if he could KO someone.


I think it's obvious he does, but the point was that you said he doesn't have KO power. Can't really say that with what we've seen.


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

outside standup WILL NOT WORK with brock. Randy has to keep it clinched because brock is going to outweigh him by sixty-seventy pounds and randy will NOT be able to sprawl his shot on a regular basis. Maybe once or twice, but actually I think if Randy gives brock the room, brock's first shot will be successful and randy will be on his back.

The greco clinch is randy's greatest strength and the only way he will neutralize lesnar's shoots.

I think Randy's standup is better than Brock's, but Brock hits way too hard for Randy to try to stand and trade with him outside the clinch. Ignoring Brock's inevitable shoots, even if Brock doesn't have KO power, he still hits VERY hard and will bruise Randy up something fierce, maybe even cut him for a win. Technique is important but all Brock really has to do is land one shot hard enough stun Randy and get a takedown out of it.


----------



## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

MJB23 said:


> I see what you're saying but I don't want to say he has KO power yet. He is strong and fast but with his lack of technique I'm not sure if he could KO someone.


i thought the right hand against herring was very solid technique personally...he reached a little, but did what he had to do, then retracted really fast....unfortunately, after that, the brief moments where we saw him standing he didn't look nearly as fast or as springy

then again it was his 3rd mma fight and he has ALOT to learn about composure in the octagon....i'll even say he looked pretty gassed after round 1....if he's gonna carry that much muscle around, he better get in better mma shape....but then again i'm comparing him to sherk....hopefully sherk's work ethic will rub off on lesnar as they are both preparing for a fight now


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

Aaronyman said:


> i thought the right hand against herring was very solid technique personally...he reached a little, but did what he had to do, then retracted really fast....unfortunately, after that, the brief moments where we saw him standing he didn't look nearly as fast or as springy
> 
> then again it was his 3rd mma fight and he has ALOT to learn about composure in the octagon....i'll even say he looked pretty gassed after round 1....if he's gonna carry that much muscle around, he better get in better mma shape....but then again i'm comparing him to sherk....hopefully sherk's work ethic will rub off on lesnar as they are both preparing for a fight now


He did alright for his 3rd fight and he definetly has tons of room for improvement. His cardio needs a ton of work and his stand up still needs to be polished. Not to mention is lack of a submission game.


----------



## Halebop (Oct 10, 2006)

I think it is just assumed and so not really mentioned about Brock Lesnar, He has looked almost cartoonishly more massive then all three of his opponents and he is taking serious advantage. He mauled his first opponent and battered Frank Mir around however he pleased. If Brock Lesnar wants his left hand on your throat and his right hand punching your ribs, that's just what's going to happen. Frank Mir showed that you can catch Brock if he get's sloppy with what he wants to do next. Then Heath Herring. If that punch hadn't happened I believe Brock would have done whatever to get the fight on the ground--Brock on Heath's back. Heath is heavier and taller then Randy and was neutralized from even transitioning. If he did Brock just stepped through them and landed more punches/elbows wherever he felt like. I think the weight/size and strength are too much here. If Brock cuts to 265 how much more lean muscle is he going to have over Randy? I think Brock will muscle his way to victory by taking Randy down pinning him against the cage and pounding him out or ref stoppage 1st or half way through the second after 7 and 1/2 minutes of unanswered G-n-P mostly against the fence. Big Nog can derail Lesnar but not Couture.


----------



## Gee (Oct 21, 2007)

I'm not sure who is going to take this, but depending who does I see:

Randy - By submission

Lesnar - TKO


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

I'm picking Lesnar to win. I don't see how Randy wins, and I'd rather see Nog vs Lesnar anyways


----------



## MalkyBoy (Nov 14, 2007)

I have no idea who will take this. If Brock connects I think it could be over very fast. However it is very hard to bet against Randy and he does have some heavy hands as well. I have difficulty beleiveing that Randy could keep Brock down on his back for long but I can see a situation where he wears Lesnar down over rounds 4 and 5.


----------



## Brydon (Jan 13, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> I have no idea what is going to happen in this fight. I have never been more confused or lost when it comes to picking a fight than I am with this one. I think Randy is going to win this but I have no idea how. I believe Lesnar will be the better wrestler and should be able to get Randy to the mat and on his back if he wants to. So if I have Randy winning this fight, is he gona win by a submission off his back?? I really dont see that happening. Do I see Randy putting Brock on his back and working some ground and pound?? No I really dont see that either. What about striking, will Randy outstrike Lesnar? Yea he will, but I see Lesnar taking him down as soon as that starts to happen. So what does this all mean?? Do I really have Lesnar beating Couture? I really dont know at this point but I wouldnt be shocked. This fight is 50/50 for me. But if I had to guess, Id say after losing 2 out of the first 3 rounds, Randy ends up on top of Brock in a scramble and ends up finishing Brock with strikes from half guard. I think if Randy can some how put Brock on his back he will make him look like a fish out of water. Especially in the late rounds, Lesnar may tire and Randy could outwork him.
> 
> I would like to hear a break down of this fight from you guys. i see alot of people picking Couture. I want to pick some of you guys' brains and se if Im missing something in my breakdown.


Your analysis is pretty much exactly the same as mine in other threads. I see Randy ending up on top from a scramble and dealing out GnP to a baffled Lesner.


----------



## FredFish1 (Apr 22, 2007)

Randy has previously struggled before with larger heavyweights than him. Josh barnett, Ricco Rodriguez. Thus I think that might be a sign of things to come. Ignore Gabriel Gonzaga, who decided his striking was his main asset.
I think Randy is going to have to work on the greco clinch because frankly once he's on his back it's a rocky Slope.
Perhaps Brocks top control isn't that great, but sweeping a man with 60 pounds on you isn't easy. Also Brocks camp will also obviously realize this and submissions from Randys back and will work with Brock to stop this. Plus subbing a man of Brocks size from your back- not easy.
I personally would like to see Randy go for the greco-roman clinch, maybe secure underhooks and go for a trip because I don't see a big take down coming. Work the G+P from guard or half guard. Brocks Legs seem to be a weak point, but he's very explosive and Herring who has quite good kicks, got taken down twice when he tried low kicks.
Randy hasn't shown alot of subs in the past, obviously he has them, but don't count on it. I personally see it going to a decision. It may just come down to who wants it more. And even then, Brocks determination is something I haven't seen in a long time. And well Randy, never underestimate him.


----------



## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

With regards to Randy losing to Ricco. Dont forget that he was winning that fight before Ricco got the mount and pounded him. Its not like He was out of his depth. Having said that, Brock is huge, and obviously immensly powerful. But he did virtually no damage to Herring when he had him on the ground. It seemed he was just happy to keep a dominant position. Herring always seems a little lazy on the ground to me, I think Brock will have a harder time against Randy.

I think Randy will test Brocks chin, then go for the clinch, trip him, and Ground and Pound for the finish.

Hail Captain America!!


----------



## FredFish1 (Apr 22, 2007)

yeah true. Imo herring has always been ok off his back, he usually gets a scramble, back in the pride days he was sweeping in to north south and kneeing fools!. Anyway, true I agree with you for the most part. I just guess Randy will have to show why he's still fighting at 44. Although, Brocks chin is something I'm concerned about. Though Randy isn't known for KO power he does have a few nice Tkos from G+P to his name, though usually smaller opponents. I can see this fight being long and drawn out, Brocks cardio is suspect atm.
Though I've heard Randy has added (i've forgotten his name, but I'm a slight fan of his  !) to his training, and he also has a strong div 2? Background and similar stature to Brock so he should be acustomed to that size. We'll see I guess.


----------



## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

FredFish1 said:


> yeah true. Imo herring has always been ok off his back, he usually gets a scramble, back in the pride days he was sweeping in to north south and kneeing fools!. Anyway, true I agree with you for the most part. I just guess Randy will have to show why he's still fighting at 44. Although, Brocks chin is something I'm concerned about. Though Randy isn't known for KO power he does have a few nice Tkos from G+P to his name, though usually smaller opponents. I can see this fight being long and drawn out, Brocks cardio is suspect atm.
> Though I've heard Randy has added (i've forgotten his name, but I'm a slight fan of his  !) to his training, and he also has a strong div 2? Background and similar stature to Brock so he should be acustomed to that size. We'll see I guess.


shane carwin


----------



## FredFish1 (Apr 22, 2007)

appreciated. I unfortunatly always get him confused with Cain. one of my other future hopefuls for the HW division.


----------



## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

The UFC HW division has very few good HW strikers....their either bjj guys (Nog, Werdum, Mir) or wrestlers (brock, couture, cain, carwin)....the only strikers are Kongo and Hardonk (and neither are at the top of the division)...i think....:confused02:


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Yea HW doesn't have strikers. Nog can strike. Cain has shown flashes of future striking. Carwin has power.

But no there aren't good strikers in the top of the divison.


----------



## stitch1z (Dec 9, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Yea HW doesn't have strikers. Nog can strike. Cain has shown flashes of future striking. Carwin has power.
> 
> *But no there aren't good strikers in the top of the divison*.


Not in the UFC anyway.

Kimbo Slice is a striker and he's fought the best and is still undefeated!


I hope you guys get the sarcasm there.

But Fedor and Arlovski are great strikers. A moot point in the UFC, though.


----------



## chilo (May 27, 2007)

randy first round KO!!



_not a serious post_


----------



## EHSL (Sep 9, 2008)

I think Randy Couture will win this fight for the simple fact, in MMA he is miles ahead of Brock Lesnar. Brock has serious potential, but right now, he isn't in the same class as Randy.

The Breakdown:

I'm sick of hearing that Brock has better wrestling than Randy...Kos was supposed to have better wrestling than GSP and that didn't happen. Why? Because MMA wrestling is different than Collegiate wrestling, Randy can stay closer to the fence, Sprawl and drop with his back to the cage when Lesnar shoots, and that gives him a chance to use his wrestling ability. Do you honestly think Randy will try and take center of the octagon against a guy who shoots that fast. He's going to get his own back up against the cage if Lesnar shoots, and use his clinch game, a game Randy is way better at than Brock. Randy has also faced way more devastating strikers than Brock Lesnar, and in no way do I see Brock KO'ing Couture. Just not going too happen, Randy is good at taking small amounts of damage, even better when it's a bigger opponent, because he works inside easier. Once you get inside of a bigger guys range and get close, they lose a lot of power, and Randy can throw small compact, shortened, but powerful shots. This fight in the most likely of cases will go to decision and I do believe Randy will have his hands raised. If you watch the Herring fight, there were plenty of chances for Herring to sweep. And if anyone says Brock is to strong for that, I took Judo for 6 years. Strength has nothing to do with sweeping and throws, leverage does. When Brock would get his body off balance while mounted, of leave an opening when he had Heath's back, a skilled practitioner on the ground could have take control. Brock may power out of it when he's on his back, but you can bet that if he gets himself wobbly while mounting couture, it's going to be reversed. It's leverage and strength has nothing to do with that.

Brock can win this fight, by laying on couture for the whole time, and that's really it. He won't finish him, but he can decision him, by using his strength in the right ways, getting Randy against the cage on the ground where leverage instantly goes to him, and Randy will have to lie there while brock throws shots that score points.

Just my opinion on the fight.


----------



## stitch1z (Dec 9, 2007)

I'm not going to meticulously go through every post but I haven't read anyone claiming that Brock's wrestling was better than Randy's.

I have seen a few posts claiming people had said that.

I have no doubt that Randy's wrestling is better than Brock's. Couture was an Olympic wrestler!

But that 60+ pound weight advantage combined with Randy's age is going to negate alot of Couture's skill imo.

I hope I'm wrong, I can't stand Brock! But I will seriously look at Randy in an entirely different light if he wins this match.


----------



## Halebop (Oct 10, 2006)

*DREAM 6 Spoiler Alert - Don't read if you are watching it later*

Spoiler Alert! Spoiler Alert! Spoiler Alert!

Okay so last night a fight at Dream 6 played out just like my prediction in Lesnar v. Couture. Overeem held Crocop in place and beat him up on the ground. Crocop could not move when being held down and couldn't control his opponenets massive arms to prevent heavy G-n-P punishment. Was Overeem worried about Mirko's takedown defense? Maybe, which is why instead of going for a double leg, he just used his brute upper body strength to throw Crocrop down.

Although Randy will come into the fight at roughly the same size as Crocop last night (225-240), Brock Lesnar will enter the octagon much heavier then Overeem who didn't have to cut weight to come in at 241 and unlike Overeem, Brock will pass the piss test. 

Brock is a world class trained wrestler, Overeem is not which means Brock will have much more of a size advantage and have to skill set needed to take even more advantage of it. 

The question of skill and experience do not come into play unless you are able to implement a game plan that takes advantage of them. So what do you need if you are Brock Lesnar who doesn't have the experience Overeem has and you need to beat a legend? More muscle, size, and speed, Brock has that. He might look like a big dumb oaf while doing it but Brock has the ability to COMPLETELY nullify Couture, not just keep him guessing or whatever. I'm sure Crocop had a game plan last night too. 
ps I know it was a no contest but yeah...pft.


----------



## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

MJB23 said:


> I see what you're saying but I don't want to say he has KO power yet. He is strong and fast but with his lack of technique I'm not sure if he could KO someone.


are u kidding me ? that right hand that he landed on hearring was very very technical , he pivoted his right leg and moved in very nicely


----------



## r00kie (Jul 8, 2008)

dontazo said:


> are u kidding me ? that right hand that he landed on hearring was very very technical , he pivoted his right leg and moved in very nicely


That right hand he threw was totally random though.. You cant summarize Lesnar standup with 1 good punch he shot. Herring was actually surprised that he did that (because it was so random)

Anyway, even if I dislike Lesnar I think that his physical dominance is just too big. There should be a weightclass for guys like him. We are used to see really big guys that don't really have the strenght according to their size. Lesnar has the pound for pound strenght of a welterweight. And I almost never saw a 265+ pound guy pack that much strenght/explosivness...

Its a bit sad because Lesnar despite being big/strong/fast AT THE MOMENT has not much to give to UFC in terms of talent. His wins will probably go via decision with a few fireworks here and there. He might get subbed and thats pretty much it.

BTW, i dont know if Herring has a very good chin but Brock does not seem to have that "KO power" everyone is talking about.


----------



## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

r00kie said:


> Its a bit sad because Lesnar despite being big/strong/fast AT THE MOMENT has not much to give to UFC in terms of talent. His wins will probably go via decision with a few fireworks here and there. He might get subbed and thats pretty much it.


w/ every day that passes, brock is learning techniques and practicing them more and more and soon he'll be ready to use them in the cage....he showed some of that against herring....the flying knee, the aggressive standup, the knee's to the body....he's getting better and every new brock fight we see, he'll look better than before


----------



## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

r00kie said:


> That right hand he threw was totally random though.. You cant summarize Lesnar standup with 1 good punch he shot. Herring was actually surprised that he did that (because it was so random)
> 
> Anyway, even if I dislike Lesnar I think that his physical dominance is just too big. There should be a weightclass for guys like him. We are used to see really big guys that don't really have the strenght according to their size. Lesnar has the pound for pound strenght of a welterweight. And I almost never saw a 265+ pound guy pack that much strenght/explosivness...
> 
> ...


i know u cant but still that right hand was fine! and those leg kicks were fine 2 i think he has a lot of potential , i dont think ufc will ever make super heavy divis. there are not enough guys


----------



## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

If you look at the technique of the punch that floored Herring, it's almost identical to the technique of one of GSP's punches that floored Fitch. He lunged off of his back foot, putting alot of his weight behind the punch, but no snap. From what i hear, you need the snap for KO power.

Randy stood and traded with Big Tim, who (regardless of whether you like him or not) is a better striker than Brock. And randy got the better of the stand up. Granted Randy didnt have to worry about Tim taking him down, but to think that Brock will outstrike The Natural is, in my opinion, getting a little carried away.

For sure Brock can win this fight. He has alot of advantages on paper. But this fight isnt being fought on paper. Its being fought in the Octagon. And Randy has alot of advantages in the Octagon


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Halebop said:


> Spoiler Alert! Spoiler Alert! Spoiler Alert!
> 
> Okay so last night a fight at Dream 6 played out just like my prediction in Lesnar v. Couture. Overeem held Crocop in place and beat him up on the ground. Crocop could not move when being held down and couldn't control his opponenets massive arms to prevent heavy G-n-P punishment. Was Overeem worried about Mirko's takedown defense? Maybe, which is why instead of going for a double leg, he just used his brute upper body strength to throw Crocrop down.
> 
> ...


Number one in the clinch Randy is world class while Brock isn't neither is Mirko.

It's a completly differnet story since Randy is a Greco Roman guy his techinique in the clinch is great.

Brock is stronger, bigger, and faster however that doesn't mean he's going to get the takedowns. When his shots haven't looked good and his clinch game isn't as good as Couture's.


----------



## Scarecrow (Mar 20, 2008)

HexRei said:


> Maybe to help him escape and get back up...
> 
> Randy's greatest strength is his Greco-Roman clinch and Dirty Boxing inside that clinch. Brock is a freestyle wrestler and his strengths are in shoots, there is no way he is going to have the experience in the clinch that Randy does, either for takedowns or strikes inside the clinch. So Randy needs to clinch up and throw short punches, elbows, and knees inside that clinch. Keep Brock offguard and wondering where the next strike will come from, prevent him from using sheer strength to work a takedown.
> 
> ...





HexRei said:


> outside standup WILL NOT WORK with brock. Randy has to keep it clinched because brock is going to outweigh him by sixty-seventy pounds and randy will NOT be able to sprawl his shot on a regular basis. Maybe once or twice, but actually I think if Randy gives brock the room, brock's first shot will be successful and randy will be on his back.
> 
> The greco clinch is randy's greatest strength and the only way he will neutralize lesnar's shoots.
> 
> I think Randy's standup is better than Brock's, but Brock hits way too hard for Randy to try to stand and trade with him outside the clinch. Ignoring Brock's inevitable shoots, even if Brock doesn't have KO power, he still hits VERY hard and will bruise Randy up something fierce, maybe even cut him for a win. Technique is important but all Brock really has to do is land one shot hard enough stun Randy and get a takedown out of it.


Two posts that are nailing it on the head. If this ends up on the ground, Randy might have a hard time getting Brock off of him. This needs to stay up against the fence in the same way that Randy fought Gonzaga.


----------



## Halebop (Oct 10, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> Number one in the clinch Randy is world class while Brock isn't neither is Mirko.
> 
> It's a completly differnet story since Randy is a Greco Roman guy his techinique in the clinch is great.
> 
> Brock is stronger, bigger, and faster however that doesn't mean he's going to get the takedowns. When his shots haven't looked good and his clinch game isn't as good as Couture's.


Yeah, Randy is the best in the world in the clinch but my point is/was that we won't get into the question of technique because one guy is so powerful in this match that he can prevent a technique from being used by countering with the offensive move of his choosing. Can you picture Brock Lesnar and Randy Couture locked up in a clinch? Like Brock just standing there in the clinch trading blows with the best in the world when he, through no celebrated technique in MMA, could just smother Randy to the ground? It's not like Herring went in with a stupid game plan, Brock just didn't invite him to participate in the match with an offense.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Halebop said:


> Yeah, Randy is the best in the world in the clinch but my point is/was that we won't get into the question of technique because one guy is so powerful in this match that he can prevent a technique from being used by countering with the offensive move of his choosing. Can you picture Brock Lesnar and Randy Couture locked up in a clinch? Like Brock just standing there in the clinch trading blows with the best in the world when he, through no celebrated technique in MMA, could just smother Randy to the ground? *It's not like Herring went in with a stupid game plan, *Brock just didn't invite him to participate in the match with an offense.


Did you watch the fight. Herring was giving Brock takedowns when he already has bad takedown defense. Kicking your opponent and coming right foward gives away any chance you have at stuffing takedowns.

Heath even tried a terrible judo throw that gave up a takedown.

Heath's gameplan was terrible now it could have to do with him getting hit in the first round but he fought a very stupid fight.


----------



## Halebop (Oct 10, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> Did you watch the fight. Herring was giving Brock takedowns when he already has bad takedown defense. Kicking your opponent and coming right foward gives away any chance you have at stuffing takedowns.
> 
> Heath even tried a terrible judo throw that gave up a takedown.
> 
> Heath's gameplan was terrible now it could have to do with him getting hit in the first round but he fought a very stupid fight.


If Heath lost that fight because of a stupid game plan then why hasn't that opinion been thrown out there before this very moment when used to refute my point and strengthen yours. 

I haven't heard one person say that, mainly because everyone who posts here probably watched the same version of the fight that I did. That fight, sadly and to my disapproval, ended with a mountain of a man riding Herring like a Bronco. That wasn't bad game planning. 

The point about the botched Judo throw, I see where you are going, Randy won't make that mistake but it also goes to my point: You aren't going to Judo throw Lesnar but you will be punished if you try. It will be interesting to see if that applies to the clinch game as well. I am pretty sure it will, even if its 230 pounds of MMA Legend trying to do it.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

No one said he lost the fight because of a bad gameplan he lost the fight because Brock's a bad match up for him and Herring isn't the fighter he used to be.

However Herring had a crappy gameplan and it really hurt him in the fight. Instead of standing and landing punches he would get himself takendown every round.

Ignoring Herring's bad gameplan is just being blind.

Couture is very different then Herring whether they are both smaller then Lesnar doesn't mean the same thing will happen.


----------



## TheGamefather (Sep 8, 2008)

lol, you all act like it's Brock vs MMA rather than Brock vs Randy...


You want to know how the fight is really going to go? It will open with Brock comfortably out striking Randy until either Randy gets knocked down, or gets into possition to be taken down. Then Lesnar controls the ground work and rains down a furious bashing. Rinse and repeate until Randy gets Ko'd or TKO'd. 

Quit acting like Brock is Kimbo, fighting bums in the street and smokin blunts... Brock is a monster, because he trains like a monster. He put in the hours, a lot of them were in the gym rather than MMA matches, but he's done the work and it shows.


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

TheGamefather said:


> lol, you all act like it's Brock vs MMA rather than Brock vs Randy...
> 
> 
> You want to know how the fight is really going to go? It will open with Brock comfortably out striking Randy until either Randy gets knocked down, or gets into possition to be taken down. Then Lesnar controls the ground work and rains down a furious bashing. Rinse and repeate until Randy gets Ko'd or TKO'd.
> ...


He has yet to face a guy with greco-roman credentials and clinch striking like Randy's. I don't see Randy trying to stand and trade at boxing distance. He is a master of the gameplan and mark my words, he will clinch as soon as possible to emphasize his skills and put Brock where he has least skill. Like Scarecrow said above, he's going to use a similar gameplan to the one he used with Gonzaga. Clinch against the fence and deliver strikes inside.


----------



## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

AceFranklin88 said:


> Absolutely. I'm not denying his talent, but it's more annoying to see blind nuthuggers than seeing blind haters. Mainly because of the abundance of his blind nuthuggers who were just dragged over from WWE.


Funny this is the exact reason he has so many blind haters. I don't see a lot of WWE fans on this forum so lets be realistic here. swpthlg I agree about going third person, very annoying and Lesnar could use a crash course in etiquette.


----------



## Halebop (Oct 10, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> No one said he lost the fight because of a bad gameplan he lost the fight because Brock's a bad match up for him and Herring isn't the fighter he used to be.
> 
> However Herring had a crappy gameplan and it really hurt him in the fight. Instead of standing and landing punches he would get himself takendown every round.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I apologize for my overly argumentative approach earlier and you are right too. If there is one athlete in any sport that has shown you can't underestimate him it's Randy. Rather then dismiss Randy completely from this fight, I think I would be better off disagreeing with him using the clinch game and that's pure speculation. Randy might be training to catch Brock when he shoots in for a double. Ala Franca v. Sherk?? I still believe Brock's size/strength win this fight and in the same fashion as the Herring fight. Brock's crude method in that fight as effective as any strategy and it is unique to him. Watch the fight again and see how scientific he is with controlling a wrist or a foot at all times. There was no chance of escape. And those knees he landed from the side...damn. But Couture has had me eating my words the last two times so I have no business counting him out.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

On the ground his control was damn impressive there where only 2 slips that I can remember seeing where Herring almost got up.

Now I don't see Brock getting Randy down. His takedown attempts weren't really all that good. I think Randy will outstrike him and win a UD on the feet.


----------



## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

i don't think randy's clinchwork will be effective against a man the size of brock frankly....i think if brock wants a td...he'll drag randy down from all kinds of positions...


----------



## ash (Oct 15, 2006)

MJB23 said:


> Ok but he hasn't knocked anyone out has he? So he doesn't have KO power.


Well, I think you're right in the purest sense of argument, in that Brock hasn't KO'd anyone yet so I guess he doesn't have KO power that we know of. That being said, in his three fights he made one guy submit via strikes and broke Heath Herring's face with one punch. So OK, until he knocks someone out I'd be willing to concede the who KO power thing, but let's not talk like Randy's going to just shrug off his punches / kicks / knees.

Wathcing Nate Diaz fight the other night was interesting because of the way he punches...those look like punches with little power and little ability to do major damage. Brock may not have knocked anyone out (yet) but his strikes do damage. So what if he doesn't KO Randy? I would argue that breaking his face will get him the win with almost certainty anyway, and in the end makes a hell of a lot larger statement. Lots of people get KOs on their record, how many fighters go out there and break faces?

EDIT: Though, to give Randy credit, he did fight (and win) with that broken arm in the Gonzaga fight!


----------



## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

if he punched herring on the chin instead of the eye, he would have been asleep i think


----------



## TheGamefather (Sep 8, 2008)

HexRei said:


> He has yet to face a guy with greco-roman credentials and clinch striking like Randy's. I don't see Randy trying to stand and trade at boxing distance. He is a master of the gameplan and mark my words, he will clinch as soon as possible to emphasize his skills and put Brock where he has least skill. Like Scarecrow said above, he's going to use a similar gameplan to the one he used with Gonzaga. Clinch against the fence and deliver strikes inside.


Randy wont be able to get into a clinch without putting himself into possition for Brock to take him down. He'll go for it, but he wont make it.


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

TheGamefather said:


> Randy wont be able to get into a clinch without putting himself into possition for Brock to take him down. He'll go for it, but he wont make it.


Unless Brock shoots literally the moment the round starts, it should be easy for Randy to clinch. Clinching is a snap, just walk up and grab on.


----------



## Halebop (Oct 10, 2006)

HexRei said:


> Unless Brock shoots literally the moment the round starts, it should be easy for Randy to clinch. Clinching is a snap, just walk up and grab on.


Well using that logic I'm just going to say It's easy to grab a bull by the balls, you just walk up and grab a hand full of nuts. 

The problem with this logic is that no one is saying Randy can't perform the clinch with a finesse that would make a nun weep. What people are saying is that Randy, through no fault of his own (he was just standing there and then all of the sudden...) will be overwhelmed, even while in the process of mounting an offense. Why don't more people find it alarming that Brock is 30% more massive then Randy Couture. The debate should really be about what he he has up his sleeve to deal with the mass of Brock Lesnar, a question that usually doesn't come up but it does with him. I think it is just glossed over due to his notority but that is a concerning hurdle to many including myself. Comparatively, this is like having a light weight fight a LHW. Brock will be 30% more massive just like a 205r would be over a 155r. Sean Sherk v. Rich Franklin anyone?


----------



## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Halebop said:


> Well using that logic I'm just going to say It's easy to grab a bull by the balls, you just walk up and grab a hand full of nuts.
> 
> The problem with this logic is that no one is saying Randy can't perform the clinch with a finesse that would make a nun weep. What people are saying is that Randy, through no fault of his own (he was just standing there and then all of the sudden...) will be overwhelmed, even while in the process of mounting an offense. Why don't more people find it remarkable that he is that big and strong. I think it is just glossed over due to his notority but that is a concerning hurdle to many including myself. Comparatively, this is like having a light weight fight a LHW. Brock will be 30% more massive just like a 205r would be over a 155r. Sean Sherk v. Rich Franklin anyone?


yeh the size adv is going to be ridiculous...i mean really really ridiculous....brock made heath and mir look small...and they are large HW's for UFC standards....

hard to match minowa vs. zulu tho...


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Halebop said:


> Well using that logic I'm just going to say It's easy to grab a bull by the balls, you just walk up and grab a hand full of nuts.
> 
> The problem with this logic is that no one is saying Randy can't perform the clinch with a finesse that would make a nun weep. What people are saying is that Randy, through no fault of his own (he was just standing there and then all of the sudden...) will be overwhelmed, even while in the process of mounting an offense. Why don't more people find it alarming that Brock is 30% more massive then Randy Couture. The debate should really be about what he he has up his sleeve to deal with the mass of Brock Lesnar, a question that usually doesn't come up but it does with him. I think it is just glossed over due to his notority but that is a concerning hurdle to many including myself. Comparatively, this is like having a light weight fight a LHW. Brock will be 30% more massive just like a 205r would be over a 155r. Sean Sherk v. Rich Franklin anyone?


I know how big he is, although I think a more apt analogy would be BJ vs Matt Hamill. Cause Brock does NOT have Rich's skillset at all (he's basically just a wrestler with a little boxing unless we see something new from him at 91), and Randy, like BJ, is a very experienced and dominant fighter who has a history of fighting guys at higher weights than they need to be fighting at. I called both of Randy and Brock's two last fight outcomes and I think I'm going to be on about this one as well.

Sig bet?


----------



## Halebop (Oct 10, 2006)

HexRei said:


> I know how big he is, although I think a more apt analogy would be BJ vs Matt Hamill. Cause Brock does NOT have Rich's skillset at all (he's basically just a wrestler with a little boxing unless we see something new from him at 91), and Randy, like BJ, is a very experienced and dominant fighter who has a history of fighting guys at higher weights than they need to be fighting at. I called both of Randy and Brock's two last fight outcomes and I think I'm going to be on about this one as well.
> 
> Sig bet?


LOL absolutely sig bet! BJ Penn/Hamill is exactly the first thing that came to mind but I consider Couture the number 2 HW in the UFC regardless of this fight, Big Nog IMO will win this mini-tourny. 

As far as the size difference on television, this should look like Penn v. Machida. Penn put up a hell of a fight for sure but there was just an obvious mass difference between the two that goes against everything weight classes are meant to ensure: the fairness of the competition and safety of the participants. There is an obvious loophole in the HW division.


----------



## Josh72 (Jun 8, 2008)

I'm taking Brock on this one, he's big and scary...despite the giant penis on his chest.


----------



## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

Josh72 said:


> I'm taking Brock on this one, he's big and scary...despite the giant penis on his chest.


Lol... that's awesome!

I don't know if anyone has said this or not, but if not... I'll be the first.
BrianRClover: "Brock is going to crush Randy, it will be stopped or look just like the Heath Herring fight." True statement.

I'm a Randy and Brock fan by the way, I just don't see how Randy can win this.


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Halebop said:


> LOL absolutely sig bet! BJ Penn/Hamill is exactly the first thing that came to mind but I consider Couture the number 2 HW in the UFC regardless of this fight, Big Nog IMO will win this mini-tourny.
> 
> As far as the size difference on television, this should look like Penn v. Machida. Penn put up a hell of a fight for sure but there was just an obvious mass difference between the two that goes against everything weight classes are meant to ensure: the fairness of the competition and safety of the participants. There is an obvious loophole in the HW division.


I agree. The sport is popular enough to support two thirty lb divisions in place of the HW class now. I wouldn't be surprised if that does happen before 2010, given that the new Unified Rules already call for similar changes.

You know what the difference will be between Penn-Machida and Randy-Lesnar? this time, Penn's gonna have his hand raised 

So, sig bet it is! thirty days of shameful display for the loser?


----------



## TheGamefather (Sep 8, 2008)

HexRei said:


> Unless Brock shoots literally the moment the round starts, it should be easy for Randy to clinch. Clinching is a snap, just walk up and grab on.


and get dumped on your head and get your face bashed in...

it's the walking right up thats going to be the problem yup.


----------



## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

Brock is only 1" taller than Randy, but obviously is much broader. I guess its a no-brainer that Brock will have a reach advantage,m but do we know how much? To me the reach advantage wont matter, since Randy dealt with Sylvias reach quite easily. Also Randy's clinch game will be key in this match up. Brocks balance in the clinch will contradict his size, i think Randy will be able to put him on his back fairly easily from the clinch. Then i think Brock will look like Cheik Kongo on his back. Like an upturned Turtle


Edit: Also i dont think Brock will bring anything new to Randy, as he's training with Shane Carwin who is also a very big dude, who has a wrestling and American Football background


----------



## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

brock has a 81" reach while couture has a 75" reach...sylvia had an 86" reach (i've seen it as 84" too in other fights...weird how it changes :confused02

if you look at the punch he landed against herring..it was from way outside and it was so fast if you watch a .gif, you'll notice that herring doesn't even flinch before it hits him.....he just stands there

btw: that must have been the scariest moment for an mma fighter.....your face just got broken in the opening seconds...you do a reverse somersault, and as you look up, 3 feet in front of you is a 280lb gorilla charging toward you at full speed....


----------



## MalkyBoy (Nov 14, 2007)

The Lone Wolf said:


> Brock is only 1" taller than Randy, but obviously is much broader. I guess its a no-brainer that Brock will have a reach advantage,m but do we know how much? To me the reach advantage wont matter, since Randy dealt with Sylvias reach quite easily. Also Randy's clinch game will be key in this match up. Brocks balance in the clinch will contradict his size, i think Randy will be able to put him on his back fairly easily from the clinch. Then i think Brock will look like Cheik Kongo on his back. Like an upturned Turtle
> 
> 
> Edit: Also i dont think Brock will bring anything new to Randy, as he's training with Shane Carwin who is also a very big dude, who has a wrestling and American Football background


Tim is a lot slower than Brock, his speed is phenomenal Randy is quick for his age but I do wonder if ring rust will be a factor, it was not against Tim but this time who knows.


----------



## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

Aaronyman said:


> a 280lb gorilla charging toward you at full speed....


I think that was a bad call on Brocks part. His inexperience showed through there. I think for that moment he didnt quite know what to do, so just bull rushed him, almost missed him, and almost smashed through the cage.

If he lacks composure when he's in unfamiliar territory like he did then, Randy can take advantage of that.

If i'm honest i can see this going either way, but i think Randy is too smart to screw this up when he so desperately wants that match up with Fedor.


----------



## valrond (Nov 26, 2007)

HexRei said:


> I know how big he is, although I think a more apt analogy would be BJ vs Matt Hamill. Cause Brock does NOT have Rich's skillset at all (he's basically just a wrestler with a little boxing unless we see something new from him at 91), and Randy, like BJ, is a very experienced and dominant fighter who has a history of fighting guys at higher weights than they need to be fighting at. I called both of Randy and Brock's two last fight outcomes and I think I'm going to be on about this one as well.
> 
> Sig bet?


BJ is not a good comparison, as Randy hasn't the skillset of BJ. BJ is a better striker and a master of BJJ. Randy can hardly submit anyone (2 submision wins in 24 matches). Randy is much better wrestler and Ground and Pounder than BJ.

It is more fair to say it's Sherk vs Hamill. Sherk is mainly a wrestler but has good boxing, it's much closer to Randy than BJ.


----------



## Beeg (Nov 19, 2006)

Randy in the last round by rear naked choke, a-la the Dread Pirate Roberts on Andre the Giant. Randy just needs to wear a mask.


----------



## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

man only way to see who will win is to actually watch a fight  i cant really make assumptions


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

TheGamefather said:


> and get dumped on your head and get your face bashed in...
> 
> it's the walking right up thats going to be the problem yup.


"get dumped on your head and get your face bashed in"? brock is that you, pretending to be your own fanboy again?


----------



## TheGamefather (Sep 8, 2008)

HexRei said:


> "get dumped on your head and get your face bashed in"? brock is that you, pretending to be your own fanboy again?



Gratz on getting the keyboard figured out champ...

And never forget, you're not handicapped, you're Handicapable.:thumbsup:


----------



## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

prison break? tbag?


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

TheGamefather said:


> Gratz on getting the keyboard figured out champ...
> 
> And never forget, you're not handicapped, you're Handicapable.:thumbsup:


Is this how they talk over at the WWE boards? There's no need to get all bent out of shape, I just making a joke. Cuz "Dump him on his head" is almost word-for-word Brock quote from the Mir pre-fight interviews.

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/37762-brock-lesnars-hilarity.html


----------



## TheGamefather (Sep 8, 2008)

HexRei said:


> Is this how they talk over at the WWE boards? There's no need to get all bent out of shape, I just making a joke. Cuz "Dump him on his head" is almost word-for-word Brock quote from the Mir pre-fight interviews.
> 
> http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/37762-brock-lesnars-hilarity.html


was indeed refferencing the interview, and I can tell jokes too Corky :thumb02:


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

TheGamefather said:


> was indeed refferencing the interview, and I can tell jokes too Corky :thumb02:


I find it ironic that you manage to misspell a simple word like "referencing" and in the same breath call someone *else* a retard. Don't worry, they'll cover that word in 6th grade english. Now go on back to the WWE forums, or jacking off to Lesnar porn, or whatever it is you kids do while you're skipping middle school


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

Enough with the insults. Keep the thread on topic or it will be closed.


----------



## TheGamefather (Sep 8, 2008)

HexRei said:


> I find it ironic that you manage to misspell a simple word like "referencing" and in the same breath call someone *else* a retard. Don't worry, they'll cover that word in 6th grade english. Now go on back to the WWE forums, or jacking off to Lesnar porn, or whatever it is you kids do while you're skipping middle school



I find t funny that the more someone cares about spelling, the smaller thier **** is. Everytime, never fails...

And since we're talking qoutes, heres a good one from Frank Mir on Lesnar, he's Brocks newest fanboy I guess.

"He was more like getting hit by a car that’s moving very slowly and you can’t get out of the way,” says Mir. “It bumps and knocks you over and is just overwhelmingly powerful.” 


“I didn’t know where he was half the time,” he says. “It really felt like I was underwater and somebody was beating the s—-t out of me. I was just drowning under him.”

Anyways, I can't keep highjackin this thread on your account Corky... 

Cheers.


Edit: 



MJB23 said:


> Enough with the insults. Keep the thread on topic or it will be closed.


Exactly. Sry mate, he got out of line,.. some people make it tough. Cheers


----------



## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

I realize you're relatively new to the forum, but usually when a mod tells you to cut it out, its a good idea to cut it out. People get banned here.


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

TheGamefather said:


> Edit:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. Sry mate, he got out of line,.. some people make it tough. Cheers


It's not tough to ignore him. If someone says something you don't like you don't have to respond to them. You can let it go.



HexRei said:


> I realize you're relatively new to the forum, but usually when a mod tells you to cut it out, its a good idea to cut it out. People get banned here.


That goes for everyone. If a mod says stop your petty bickering and you don't infractions will be handed out and threads closed.


----------



## The Lone Wolf (Sep 23, 2008)

Just bored at work and thinking about this match-up. Randy rocked Tim Sylvia with that overhand right at the start of their fight. I'm starting to wonder whether Randy might come out with a similar gameplan and plan on overwhelming Brock early, plant a few blows and try and panic him. 

Any thoughts?


----------



## Beeg (Nov 19, 2006)

Low kick to the knee, move. Jab, move. Circle, circle, circle. Don't get cornered, don't get taken down. Make Brock run that 270 lbs. around the ring for 14 minutes. When his knees are red and blue and his lungs sucking air, apply the rear naked choke in the 15th minute. (If Randy can get his arm around that neck.)


----------



## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

The Lone Wolf said:


> Just bored at work and thinking about this match-up. Randy rocked Tim Sylvia with that overhand right at the start of their fight. I'm starting to wonder whether Randy might come out with a similar gameplan and plan on overwhelming Brock early, plant a few blows and try and panic him.
> 
> Any thoughts?


brock's the kinda guy, you know he's gonna come out w/ something flashy...it was a flying knee last time...i wouldn't be surprised if he came out and bombed a high kick or something ridiculous like that


----------



## Satori (Sep 18, 2008)

Beeg said:


> Low kick to the knee, move. Jab, move. Circle, circle, circle. Don't get cornered, don't get taken down. Make Brock run that 270 lbs. around the ring for 14 minutes. When his knees are red and blue and his lungs sucking air, apply the rear naked choke in the 15th minute. (If Randy can get his arm around that neck.)


That’s what I am thinking--- 

IF he can--- he needs to take those legs from under Lesnar BIG TIME, once those knees are BLUE, then he will be able to handle him with much less problems I think--- Again this is just my take on what can be done as way of a game plan--- I am a firm believer how ever that ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN IN MMA--- 

We have just seen so little of Lesnar in the Octagon that it’s really hard to predict what he can and cannot do--- IMPO.


----------



## The_Guillotine (Oct 1, 2008)

Lesnar by WWE move--F5!


----------

