# HEY GUYS A POLL! What's more humiliating...



## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

So what do you think is more humiliating? Also, if you train or do any sort of martial art, post it too because I want to compare someone's specific training (striking/grappling) with their response.


I vote getting Tapping or being put to sleep.


BUT WHY!? you ask?

Because when you get subbed, you're fully aware of what's happening at all times and you're helpless to prevent it. I think anyone can get caught (Charlie Z knocks mother fuckers OUT!). What do you think? DISCUSSION IS GO!


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

I voted for the KO/TKO as being more humiliating.

Reason being is that you can get KO/TKOed by a guy like Charlie Z, while I am sure a n00b on the groung isnt gonna put you to sleep/make you tap.

But a n00b can throw a KO punch.......


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

You make a fine point, sir. I guess my inclination to be humiliated by being subbed comes from my confidence on the ground. I think I'm pretty solid there so if I ever end up getting subbed I'll take that loss WAY harder than if I get caught by some noob, because then I can just write it off as "Oh I got caught by a noob."


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I voted getting tko/ko'd 

Since I am much more experienced in the striking department. I'd have to question all the time ive spent in boxing/kickboxing.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Well it depends, I think if I sit in an armbar too long and my arm breaks or I dont tap and pass out, it points out either how stupid I am or how egotistical I am. If I get KO'd, I could have just had an off night or I could have just been utterly dominated. If it looks like Houston/Irvin or Silva/Griffin, that would be pretty bad. 

I can't pick for sure though. It depends on the situation.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

i think napping instead of tapping is valiant.

snapping instead of tapping is stupid.

getting KO'd in a fight your dominating has to be the most humilating. altho getting subbed in a fight your dominating is a close 2nd.


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## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

alizio said:


> i think napping instead of tapping is valiant.
> 
> snapping instead of tapping is stupid.
> 
> getting KO'd in a fight your dominating has to be the most humilating. altho getting subbed in a fight your dominating is a close 2nd.


Pretty much my thoughts exactly, though in reality it would depend on the situation, anyone can get caught and KO'd or caught in a sub.

Like I think getting flash KO'd in the first 10 seconds is alot worse than say getting KO'd via knee in the 3rd round after a good fight.

Also folding up like an accordion a la Rashad and leaving a funny face is kinda bad aswell.


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## Toxie (Mar 18, 2007)

I tend to agree with everybody in this thread, so I can't really settle on a vote. To me, circumstances make a fight humiliating. Even a decision could be as humiliating as a sub or KO, if your opponent is not very good and you struggle all the way through the fight. A sub can be very humiliating if you're being stupid and therefore caught easily. With a KO, it gets a bit more personal, because it affects your resistance to blows, which you can't really change. However, if you're fighting say, Cro Cop and get KO'd, it's not as humiliating as it would be if you got KO'd by Kaleb Starnes. It's all in the circumstances.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

K guys, to help you settle it, in this hypothetical situation it's a complete middle ground. No one is dominating or anything, just a good well matched fight. That help?


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Tapping. I gaze at the ceiling in exasperation every time.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

Being knocked out by far. Just the fact that you wake up and immediately realize you just looked flopped like a fish in front of everyone is enough to make you contemplate quitting at times.

Being tapped out has never been humiliating, because I've never been extraordinary at grappling in the first place. 

As a humble student who was submitted regularly in demonstration, it's hard to be humilated.


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## Toxie (Mar 18, 2007)

Tapping, because unlike a KO, which can be excused by a glass jaw (that can't really be worked on for improvement), it is caused by a lack of skill which is more humiliating IMO.

EDIT: By lack of skill, I meant it in the sense that your opponent has more skill than you.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Toxie said:


> Tapping, because unlike a KO, which can be excused by a glass jaw (that can't really be worked on for improvement), it is caused by a lack of skill which is more humiliating IMO.
> 
> EDIT: By lack of skill, I meant it in the sense that your opponent has more skill than you.


This is exactly the way I feel. If you get subbed it's due to your lack of skill or your opponent's surplus of it. Anyone can throw a punch and catch someone, it takes true skill and knowledge of the art form to submit someone regardless of how rudimentary it is.


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

True, but because you are knocked out doesn't necessarily mean you just have a bad chin. I'm referring to not properly blocking like you are trained to do, which is also a lack of skill.

I guess it's the physical act of being unconscious that is the humiliating factor for me. I've always thought of being subbed as "to be expected". The only time I would be humiliated is if I was tapped by someone with no experience.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

I get what you're saying, but I can still write off a KO as "Ah shit, I got caught with a fluke punch that I would've blocked 9/10 times." and when I get subbed I know it's because the other guy was just better than me. If I'm getting owned standing? Then maybe, but I still feel getting tapped would be far more embarassing.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Tapping, you're there right after, at least when you get KTFO you don't have to deal with the reaction right away and you don't really remember it. 

Plus, anyone can get caught and put to sleep, if you get subbed that usually means you made a crucial mistake grappling.


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## Toxie (Mar 18, 2007)

SJ said:


> I guess it's the physical act of being unconscious that is the humiliating factor for me. I've always thought of being subbed as "to be expected". The only time I would be humiliated is if I was tapped by someone with no experience.





Life B Ez said:


> Tapping, you're there right after, at least when you get KTFO you don't have to deal with the reaction right away and you don't really remember it.


I fully agree with both aspects and have to use them to reinforce my point here. Being put to sleep is the ultimate humiliation, because you know what's happening, you know you're in a bad position and your body gives up on you. Not only does it show that your skills are inferior, but it also makes you completely vulnerable by being unconscious.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

swpthleg said:


> Tapping. I gaze at the ceiling in exasperation every time.



During my short span of jiu jitsu classes I got tapped out by this fat kid, I mean he was like 230lbs and 30lbs were his titties. That was about as bad as I can imagine the tapping part 



SJ said:


> Being knocked out by far. Just the fact that you wake up and immediately realize you just looked flopped like a fish in front of everyone is enough to make you contemplate quitting at times.
> 
> Being tapped out has never been humiliating, because I've never been extraordinary at grappling in the first place.
> 
> As a humble student who was submitted regularly in demonstration, it's hard to be humilated.


It is humiliating I got KOed once and it was scary, humiliating, confusing oh and I cried like a bitch. Probably because that is the only time ive been KO'd and the only thing I have to relate to is why I also agree its much worse.

(i was 14 at the time)


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

u can get caught in a fluke sub u would have avoided 9/10 aswell, that arguement doesnt hold weight.

when you get KO'd it flat out shortens your career. you can learn from subs and stuff and improve, if you cant take hits to the face, its very embarrassing.

your basically Marcus Jones.

i rather be Kimbo then Marcus Jones.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

I got a question...


Whats humiliating about either of those?? Personally.. i you go in there and fight the best you can i dont see how its humiliating to get subd or ko'd.

Thats just me i guess....


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## Uchaaa (Apr 22, 2007)

Being beaten by charlie z...

I would say ko because it has a greater effect on your body. Lose by a sub and you will just tap an then its over.


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

Theres nothing worse than getting put to sleep....I hate thinking all I need is 1 more sec....ZzZzZzzZzZz...waking up feeling all fuzzy and confused F that lol

...WAIT WAIT WAIT what about tapping due to strikes from the Z man?


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## punchbag (Mar 1, 2010)

Good call, but I think if you throw other factors in the mix a sub would be funny as heck, like for example if James Toney gets subbed 2secs into his first fight, will be kinda cool as he seems to be doing an early Kimbo with it aint gonna go to the groundish quotes. As well as calling out Randy, Chuck,Tito, A.silva etc.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Being knocked out is 10x more humiliating. You could end up looking like a zombie, like a wussy with a glass chin, or you could end up getting hurt.


Getting submitted looks pretty noble regardless, especially if you hang in there a little while before you tap after you realize there's no way out (Mousasi vs Gono). If you tap instantly (GSP vs Hughes I) it's maybe not so great. But still less humiliating than say, a drawn out beatdown tko (GSP vs Serra I).


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

(I think this nifty little thread is a gem)


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

SJ said:


> (I think this nifty little thread is a gem)


What's sad is this thread has less then 30 replies and less then 400 views. While "The All Inclusive CharlieZ" thread has almost 10,000 views and over 750 replies.......


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

Very sad indeed....Half those were Z double,triple posting tho


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Hahha, good point


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

in all fairness to Z, i used to double post and was told not to, so i stopped and started editing posts and ppl started saying i edited them cuz i dont know wtf im talking about and im changing my opinion..... so either way, ppl bitch.

time for a "FREE CHARLIE Z" campaign, no?


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

Nobody ever says anything to me for editing

Edit: SEE?


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## The Horticulturist (Feb 16, 2009)

I always edit somewhere between 3-5 times! I guess I don't know what I'm talking about either.


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## G_Land (Aug 11, 2009)

Nope lol none of use do


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## Tokamak (Mar 7, 2014)

The Horticulturist said:


> Being knocked out by far. Just the fact that you wake up and immediately realize you just looked flopped like a fish in front of everyone is enough to make you contemplate quitting at times.
> 
> Being tapped out has never been humiliating, because I've never been extraordinary at grappling in the first place.
> 
> As a humble student who was submitted regularly in demonstration, it's hard to be humilated.


Absolutely! Finally, someone gets it! There can be NO bigger humiliation than being out to sleep by being deprived of air. Being submitted can be moderately embarrassing yes but at the end of the day, it can prompt you to go back to the gym and improve your technique. Even being hit hard and knocked out is more favourable because at least it involves raw power and strength and at the end of the day, anyone anywhere can get hit on a sweet spot and go down. BUT being slowly choked and put to sleep like a baby is the height if humiliation. The fact that someone hasn't even hit you but yet can not only control YOUR body, they also do it slowly and prevent you from in any way STOPPING them. The spectacle of a big, strong man flopping out like a baby is emasculating indeed. It's made even worse by all the close, tight body contact that the dominator has over you as such intimacy should be saved for your nearest and dearest in the sack - the fact that another man can get just as close and personal to you and then put you to sleep for your troubles is highly disturbing. If it wasn't for being inside a ring/cage/octagon, I'd be worried what the aggressor could/would do whilst unconscious. To many losses from being put to sleep would, by far, be more of a reason to quit the sport than being knocked out


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## Spite (Jul 7, 2009)

Nice Necromancy Tokamak.

But since I've never seen this thread I voted being KO'd.

Reason.

I kind of always feel sorry for the guy trying to make sense of WTF just happened. It must be horrible waking up in the Octagon with your corner men trying to explain that you just got KTFO.

I've never thought there is any shame in tapping, if fact if you look back to the Mir v Nog fight I just thought Nog was a idiot for not tapping. I was like yeah well done Nog, you didn't tap but you still lost and now you're going to be in intense pain until the arm is reset... and a nice long spell out on the sidelines for you. If that had been a leg bar it could have ended him. 

Besides, everytime you get KO'd you run the risk of your career being shortened or worse.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Wow. Old thread. It took me while to realize. Here is my go:

You get submitted by Palhares. You tap, he ignores it. You can even scream like a girl, but in the end, nobody will care or remember, because they will be hating him so much for that. So, you've lost the fight, but you get the public sympathy. He wins the fight, and gets banned.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Nog did actually tap against Mir, just a little to late  Nearly having the fight won probably delayed the tap as much as the "Brazilian pride" he learned his lesson and tapped to Werdum.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Joabbuac said:


> Nog did actually tap against Mir, just a little to late  Nearly having the fight won probably delayed the tap as much as the "Brazilian pride" he learned his lesson and tapped to Werdum.


He didn't learn the lesson, actually. He only tapped to Werdum after his arm was trashed, again. Hard headed Big Nog.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> He didn't learn the lesson, actually. He only tapped to Werdum after his arm was trashed, again. Hard headed Big Nog.


Oh did it break again? Damn, didn't know that.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Joabbuac said:


> Oh did it break again? Damn, didn't know that.


It did not break, because the force was applied at the joint but the delay in tapping (again) caused Minotauro's elbow ligament to tore and he had to undergo surgery for that, along a lot of physiotherapy time.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I think the humiliation really depends on the manner in which one is tapped or knocked out. That being said it varies from submission/knockout to submission/knockout. For example I think it was more humiliating for Ronda to break Miesha's arm and for Henderson to knockout Bisping cold then it was for Ronda to tap out Kaufman or for Renan Barao to finish Urijah Faber.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

It's a sport, so I have to attribute any "humiliating" label to behaviors that go beside the sport, meaning, I don't consider humiliating to get caught by any technique since this is the goal of the game. 

The humiliation, IMO, comes when one is running its mouth like Bisping was and *boom*, or when Dave Herman was saying nobody could submit him and *boom* or when Anderson thought there were no limits for his clowning and *boooom* (the worst of all time).

I don't see how Miesha having her arm trashed by Ronda is humiliating in any way. Far from that. It is Ronda's best weapon and everybody lost in same fashion to her by then. Miesha tried harder than the others to escape and paid for that.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah I tend to agree arrogance can become humiliating. Tito went through that through the end of his career. Then he had that last grave digger against Ryan Bader.


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