# Fedor Should Fight Anderson Silva!!!!



## CharlieZ (Sep 14, 2009)

that would be a great fight thier both in my Opinion the 2 best p4p MMA fighters in the game today. Honestly Silva has better skills then fedor slightly and is more agile fedor would probably win because hes bigger and stronger and hes heavy handed But it would certainly be a great fight to watch Fedor vs Silva.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

I'll take Fedor in the UFC over him fighting Anderson.........


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## radab (Mar 14, 2010)

I been wondering how Silva would do with top heavies for a while 


If he gets and beats Rua, there are no real fights left ror him at M or LHW. I'd like to see Dana put him in with some of his best heavies


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## LOJ (Mar 9, 2007)

Fedor will most likely retire before ever getting in the UFC, and Anderson will never leave the UFC because that's where all the competition is.


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

im one of the biggest fedor nay sayers out there but all this talk about machida vs fedor and anderson vs fedor is stupid do people forget cro cop vs fedor, cro cop was faster,stronger and he was on steriods and he still couldn't do anything


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## Inferno (Jan 19, 2010)

I don't normally respond to these hypothetical threads, but this one would make a lot of sense to me. Both considered P4P best, both walk around at a similar weight, and 2 very different styles and body types. This would be my dream fight at the moment......unless someone can talk Dana into letting BJ fight Brock.


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## KillingRoad89 (Jul 28, 2009)

Id love to see this fight but it wont happen anytime soon.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

joe davola said:


> im one of the biggest fedor nay sayers out there but all this talk about machida vs fedor and anderson vs fedor is stupid do people forget cro cop vs fedor, cro cop was faster,stronger and he was on steriods and he still couldn't do anything


True but that was like 5 years ago and Anderson is a much different fighter than Cro-Cop.


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## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

joe davola said:


> im one of the biggest fedor nay sayers out there but all this talk about machida vs fedor and anderson vs fedor is stupid do people forget cro cop vs fedor, cro cop was faster,stronger and he was on steriods and he still couldn't do anything


Faster and stronger than who? Anderson and Lyoto? To compare someone like Cro Cop to either of the two is just plain ignorance. The sport has evolved so much since Cro Cop was on top in Pride, and he demonstrates that every time he steps into the Octagon.

Cro Cop will never be and has never been as technically brilliant a striker as Anderson or Lyoto. His movement has never been superb. He uses footwork to stalk his opponents as opposed to cutting them off. 

The one thing I can say impressed me about Cro Cop is how he used angles to land a left head kick. However, in this rapid evolution that MMA has undergone in recent years, a one-trick pony will never be successful in high end competition.

As far as this actual thread goes, I agree. Fedor is a small HW and Anderson cuts to hit LHW. It seems like it would make sense. Since I'm well aware how much nut huggery goes on for Fedor on these forums I'll simply say that I think Fedor would be surprised when he fought a striker with the capacity to take advantage of the poor technique he uses when throwing his loopy over-hands.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I think anderson would get taken down and GNP out by fedor


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

Servatose said:


> Faster and stronger than who? Anderson and Lyoto? To compare someone like Cro Cop to either of the two is just plain ignorance. The sport has evolved so much since Cro Cop was on top in Pride, and he demonstrates that every time he steps into the Octagon.
> 
> Cro Cop will never be and has never been as technically brilliant a striker as Anderson or Lyoto. His movement has never been superb. He uses footwork to stalk his opponents as opposed to cutting them off.
> 
> ...


to say machida and anderson are far more technical is ignorance sure they have better footwork but they don't have the speed and power cro cop did and anderson would get rag dolled and machida couldn't do enough damage to hurt him the only way machida could win would be by striking and running but eventually a kick would get caught it always happens but a stiff jab stops him in his tracks like rogers showed


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

joe davola said:


> to say machida and anderson are far more technical is ignorance sure they have better footwork but they don't have the speed and power cro cop did and anderson would get rag dolled and machida couldn't do enough damage to hurt him the only way machida could win would be by striking and running but eventually a kick would get caught it always happens but a stiff jab stops him in his tracks like rogers showed but that wouldn't work all night


sorry, but no. Anderson and Crocop are not that different in weight and Anderson is way way faster.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

This fight could happen, if the circumstances were right. Fedor isn't a big heavyweight and Silva could move up to fight him easily. I think that this fight would be awesome. Silva's weakness is his wrestling and Fedor's ***** could be the difference in that fight.


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## Icculus (Oct 4, 2009)

silva by rnc in the 2nd. It wont happen but fedor should at least fight mousassi. why cant we at least see that as a superfight?


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

rabakill said:


> sorry, but no. Anderson and Crocop are not that different in weight and Anderson is way way faster.


yeah he's faster than the cro cop of today but not the pride cro cop and anderson doesn't have fast hands at all


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

This fight will never happen.

Factor no. 1: I think they are not in the same level of strength. Fedor proved incredible strenght agains a lot bigger opponents. Big advantage

Factor no. 2: KO power on Fedor side. OK Silva seems to have iron chin but in 185. HW is different lvl.

Factor no. 3: *****. No doubt in my mind that Silva will be tooled on ground. GNP, sub. Can Silva submit Fedor or control him on the ground? :confused03:

Factor no. 4: Silva is faster and more elusive.

Standing: Silva will hit more often but with less power - edge Fedor

Ground: Fedors bread and butter - Silvas nightmare.

Takedown: How can Silva keep this fight standing? :confused02: 

I just cant even imagine Silva as a winner of this "never happen hypotetical" fight


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Servatose said:


> Faster and stronger than who? Anderson and Lyoto? To compare someone like Cro Cop to either of the two is just plain ignorance. The sport has evolved so much since Cro Cop was on top in Pride, and he demonstrates that every time he steps into the Octagon.
> 
> Cro Cop will never be and has never been as technically brilliant a striker as Anderson or Lyoto. His movement has never been superb. He uses footwork to stalk his opponents as opposed to cutting them off.
> 
> ...


Poor technique of loopy overhand rights :confused02:?... Fedor's "loopy" punches happen to be some of the fastest, most technical, and most powerful punches in martial arts. Look up "***** Casting Punch" or "Russian Hook"... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JISgLclfX3c

That is the technique Fedor uses (though the guy in the vid does a slightly different variant with the inward twisting wrist). These aren't your slow Dan Henderson or Chuck Liddell haymakers. 

They are extremely fast and hard to dodge because of their unconventional path. Look at Fedor's punches closely, they are not full 360 degree arcs swung blindly like a teary eyed 10 year old. They are very targeted and accurate, with a shortened arc, somewhat of a cross between a straight cross and an twisting overhand, with devastating body momentum behind them. That's why they knock out elite striker after elite striker.


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> Lol poor technique of loopy overhand rights ... Fedor's "loopy" punches happen to be some of the fastest, most technical, and most powerful punches in martial arts. Look up "***** Casting Punch" or "Russian Hook"...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JISgLclfX3c
> 
> ...


I was one of these people but that was when I started watching mma. When you dont know *****, his punches just look like weird haymakers.

Casting punches are awesomly fast. I tried the technique. They will kill your shoulders, you really need to get use to them. I was hitting bag with these punches and it was very painful. When punch lands your shoulder is in different angle then usual.


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> Poor technique of loopy overhand rights :confused02:?... Fedor's "loopy" punches happen to be some of the fastest, most technical, and most powerful punches in martial arts. Look up "***** Casting Punch" or "Russian Hook"...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JISgLclfX3c
> 
> ...


i don't think it's technical at all and i already mentioned it rogers stopped him dead in his path with a straight jab and was fine all you gotta do is get off before him and you should do all right in the stiking department and a punch that greatly increases your chances to injure your hand is not technical no matter how you look at it


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

joe davola said:


> i don't think it's technical at all and i already mentioned it rogers stopped him dead in his path with a straight jab and was fine all you gotta do is get off before him and you should do all right in the stiking department and a punch that greatly increases your chances to injure your hand is not technical no matter how you look at it


Funny, I seem to recall that fight ending with Rogers lying cross eyed on the floor, I really have to google this fight where Rogers apparently sropped Fedor dead. 

Landing a lucky jab that happens to land on the nose and start a gusher is nice, but he still lost and got badly outgunned the rest of the fight by Fedor's fast "loopy" punches. So did Sylvia and his "impregnable jab" with a 500 ft reach advantage... I seem to recall Fedor's loopy punches blasting right through this amazing straight jab you seem to think is the master of all techniques.

Arlovski too, for all his "beating Fedor to the punch" with pitter patter shots that all got blocked. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbSUJmF4wxk

And yeah I can probably beat you to the punch too if I play tag and run away, it's not gonna damage you though. 

Not to mention CroCop, and Hunt, and Schlit ... all these "superior" technical stikers got owned on their feet before being pounded on the ground.

As for damaging yourself more ... perhaps it is a bit hard on the shoulders and wrist, but I think it gets easier with practics. That and having flexible muscles by mixing in fluid "range of motion" muscle workouts (kettlebells, tire hammering etc.) instead of purely stiff muscles with gym machines. Fedor hasn't really seen that much more injury than other pros in MMA really. 

It's no different that the Muay Thai shin kick ... that is death on your shins and nerves (many MT pros have terrible leg conditions in their later life), but you can eventually toughen it up to some degree with microfracturing and slowly hitting harder and harder things. Even Boxing punches can cause horrible knuckle fracturing in real life ... that kind of power is hard on yourself without those giant ass gloves. So I don't see this argument that a technique has to be perfectly injury free for it to be considered "technical"


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> As for damaging yourself more ... perhaps it is a bit hard on the shoulders and wrist, but I think it gets easier with practics. That and having flexible muscles by mixing in fluid "range of motion" muscle workouts (kettlebells, tire hammering etc.) instead of purely stiff muscles with gym machines. Fedor hasn't really seen that much more injury than other pros in MMA really.


Im talking about myself  I dont discredit that technique. Its great. Even normal punches sore your wrist and shoulders. 

Fedor is beast indeed :thumb02:


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> Poor technique of loopy overhand rights :confused02:?... Fedor's "loopy" punches happen to be some of the fastest, most technical, and most powerful punches in martial arts. Look up "***** Casting Punch" or "Russian Hook"...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JISgLclfX3c
> 
> ...


Beautifully put.

"loopy" punches indeed. lol
A punch that comes in over the top is always going to "loop". Or is there a suggestion that all punches that go anywhere but in a straight line are sloppy? More lol. 

Leben? Now those are loopy punches. Like two potatos connected to his shoulders with string.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Atilak said:


> Im talking about myself  I dont discredit that technique. Its great. Even normal punches sore your wrist and shoulders.
> 
> Fedor is beast indeed :thumb02:


Oh I know, that was in response to Joe... it was tough on me when I practicesd too. I did some bag work with it, but I'm by no means proficient... it definitely puts a lot more pressure on the shoulders instead of just the core, could cause some tears if you don't build it up slowly I imagine.

And yeah Fedor rules  ... back to the thread I think he'd take Anderson down quite easily with his crazy strength, clinching speed and trips, and GnP him out. This whole striking discussion would never even come into play IMO.


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> Funny, I seem to recall that fight ending with Rogers lying cross eyed on the floor, I really have to google this fight where Rogers apparently sropped Fedor dead.
> 
> Landing a lucky jab that happens to land on the nose and start a gusher is nice, but he still lost and got badly outgunned the rest of the fight by Fedor's fast "loopy" punches. So did Sylvia and his "impregnable jab" with a 500 ft reach advantage... I seem to recall Fedor's loopy punches blasting right through this amazing straight jab you seem to think is the master of all techniques.
> 
> ...


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## punchbag (Mar 1, 2010)

I'd much rather see Fedor vs velasquez/jds or couture or even shut Mirs mouth. Anderson vs Mousasi and Wanderlei vs Manhoef sorry to be boring just think these would be cool fights.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

joe davola said:


> 2nd he "landed a lucky jab on the nose" LOL OMFG are you dumb, i don't know what world you are living in but you don't need luck to land a jab and if you do than you shouldn't be fighting


I said it's lucky to land a jab *on the nose* ... he wasn't specifically aiming for the nose, fedor ducked into it, Rogers just stuck it out there. Landing a jab - not luck, skill. Landing specifically on a small sensitive area like the nose, with someone ducking into it .. luck. That jab wouldn't have done much to Fedor had it not been exactly on the nose, which is not something you can specifically count on. LOL OMG UR SO DUMB HAHA ROTFLOLMAOCOPTER I don't know what world you're living in, but if you don't know how to read, you shouldn't be typing.




joe davola said:


> 3rd who said anything about sylvia's jab and he didn't even throw one


Sylvia came out with his right hand stuck to his head and sticking his jab out like his life depended on it. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbTsTdvic_Y

fwd to 4:40. 

And while you didn't say anything about Sylvia's jab specifically, you did say how easy it is to defeat those loopy Fedor punches with a simple jab. I simply showed you the results of your theory in practice. I mean this is Tim JabMaster 5000, that's all the man ever did.



joe davola said:


> and the major difference between the jab and every other jab you see in MMA was that brett actually pushed of his back foot and went in and out instead of just stretching his arm out


Ok, decent technique, I've seen others do as much but with even more snap in their jab. The exact placement on the nose was still luck though, and it was his only solid shot during standup in the entire fight. Wow he totally owned Fedor :confused03:. To be sure he did have some decent GnP, but we're talking standup here remember.



joe davola said:


> 4th LMAO fedor never blocked AA's strikes he dodged a few but thats it


There was a link. Yes, when the text is all underlined like that, it's possible to click it... it takes you somewhere else on the interwebs! And shows you what I'm talking about. Some people post these things instead of talking out their ass.



joe davola said:


> and how are those ***** punches hard to dodge?


Because they have some of the weirdest arc in punching technique ... you can't bob and weave / duck under them very effectively because they go top down but in a straighter arc, almost like a cross. They're harder to see coming because instead of winding your whole body back like a giant telegraph for some traditional boxing power-punches, you just snap your shoulders instantly and follow through with the body instead... just as much power as a full bodied cross / overhand, far less telegraphing. And they're fast as hell. Understand now?


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> I said it's lucky to land a jab *on the nose* ... he wasn't specifically aiming for the nose, fedor ducked into it, Rogers just stuck it out there. Landing a jab - not luck, skill. Landing on a small sensitive area like the nose, with someone ducking into it .. luck. LOL OMG UR SO DUMB HAHA ROTFLOLMAO I don't know what world you're living in, but if you don't know how to read, you shouldn't be typing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i never said he owned fedor nor did fedor own him and he didn't block AA's strikes he dodged a few apart from the kicks


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

Servatose said:


> Faster and stronger than who? Anderson and Lyoto? To compare someone like Cro Cop to either of the two is just plain ignorance. The sport has evolved so much since Cro Cop was on top in Pride, and he demonstrates that every time he steps into the Octagon.
> 
> Cro Cop will never be and has never been as technically brilliant a striker as Anderson or Lyoto. His movement has never been superb. He uses footwork to stalk his opponents as opposed to cutting them off.
> 
> ...


agree Arlovski outsriked fedor, and he showed Fedor's striking weaknesses but like all of them he made a mistake

I think the difference with Silva would be how mentally prepared he will be instead of other fighters

would be intersting


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

xeberus said:


> I think anderson would get taken down and GNP out by fedor


This ^^^


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## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

Rusko said:


> agree Arlovski outsriked fedor, and he showed Fedor's striking weaknesses but like all of them he made a mistake
> 
> I think the difference with Silva would be how mentally prepared he will be instead of other fighters
> 
> would be intersting


This.

I think it's foolish to look at the results of a match and say, "Oh, funny ... he's more technical, how come he ended up K.O'ed?" Are you serious?

I'm not arguing the fact that Fedor has won his fights. Obviously he has. What I'm arguing, is the fact that his punches may have a title, they may be labeled as a certain technique, but when you consider their relevance in a purely striking aspect, they're unrefined. 

I know full well what an overhand punch is, or a hook. I know the difference between a jab, and straight punch. I also know that when a fighter throws all of his power and speed into a punch before setting it up with footwork or angles, that of course it has a chance hit. Does that make it right? Hell no. The fact that people are arguing this point baffles me. Fedor could knock the next 30 people he fights out with a double hammer fist as he's charging at them. By the logic some are imploring in this post, that would make it, "Oh. This is actually a technique some apes occasionally use when contesting for food. It's called the twisting, double-hammer. It's real effective if it hits your opponent." 

I don't care that Fedor beat Arlovski, or that he beat Rogers. Arlovski was peppering Fedor's face with jabs before he decided to try his flying knee. Did Fedor win with a KO? Yes, he did. Does the change the fact that crisp boxing was out pointing him in the beginning of that round? No.

Fedor will often lead an offense with his over-hand. Something that a fighter with good footwork, and good boxing will pick apart all day. He would never ever hit a smart striker like Machida with a punch like that. That's the point I'm making. A good boxer, or striker in general isn't going to be hit by a technique that has poor delivery. I'm not saying Fedor hasn't won despite that. I'm not saying so-and-so would beat Fedor. What I'm saying is that Fedor is far from perfect, and I believe there are plenty fighters out there who have the skill to expose parts of his game that are incomplete. 

I could go on to say that most of Fedor's opponents have been light heavy weights, people no one's heard of, or fighters who lost their relevance in the sport 3-5 years ago. But that's for another time. All I can really do, as someone who appreciates Fedor's legacy, but sees holes in his game is point such things out, and say that until he competes with names I consider modern MMA fighters (Not one dimensional striker/tire changers) and demonstrates improvement in areas he's shown weakness in, I think there are plenty of guys out there who could offer Fedor a threat, and I think to deny the fact that Fedor has a chance to lose against either Silva, Machida, Lesnar, Mir, Cain, or even JDS is blind.


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## Godzuki (Feb 26, 2007)

Servatose said:


> This.
> 
> I think it's foolish to look at the results of a match and say, "Oh, funny ... he's more technical, how come he ended up K.O'ed?" Are you serious?
> 
> ...


But, the strikes in discussion aren't poorly executed or sloppy "overhand rights", they're extremely well executed "casting hooks". The techniques are done like that for a reason. Apart fom the stuff already mentioned (hard to see/block, not telegraphed, more power etc.) it allows you to close the distance, puts your opponent on the defensive and ensures that the punch lands with the two main knuckles. Fedor explains that even if the punch misses it sets up many, many other strikes and take-downs (eg. he often follows it up by hooking a leg and taking his opponent down whilst he remains on his feet for GnP or leg/ankle/foot locks).

If you take a look at some of Fedor's tutorials/seminars you'll see that there's nothing he does sloppily, without reason or by accident. Everything he teaches he does in his fights and has demonstrated it's effectiveness time and time again at the highest level. Just because he is unorthodox, it doesn't make him sloppy or un-technical. IMO he's as technical a MMA fighter as anyone on the planet. "The proof is in the pudding", as they say.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Servatose said:


> This.
> 
> I think it's foolish to look at the results of a match and say, "Oh, funny ... he's more technical, how come he ended up K.O'ed?" Are you serious?
> 
> ...


This part made me LOL!

I also agree that there are a lot of fighters out there that would be serious threats to Fedor. I also agree that in a pure striking aspect, Fedor does not have the most technical striking. Fedor does have excellent timing. He said he was timing Rogers footwork which led to the KO and his timing against Arlovski was on point when he landed the KO punch.

But the Arlovski fight is a good example. Arlovski has very good boxing when he is on his game. Before he started getting careless, he was winning that fight which was all striking.


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## munkie (Sep 28, 2009)

Fedor loses to Anderson 75% of the time. Fedor isn't a true heavyweight, could easily make 205 if he tried to cut at all, so the size and strength difference isn't as big as everybody seems to think it is. Fedor has one punch power when standing, but so did Henderson, Cote, Leites, Franklin, Leben. What happened to every single one of them? Fedor would get picked apart while on the feet. As far as on the ground, Anderson has a very dangerous offensive and superb defensive guard so Fedor wouldn't dominate there either. Regardless, Fedor does have the power and skills to force certain things to happen, but overall, I'm gonna say Silva takes the match 3/4's of the time.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Servatose said:


> This.
> 
> I think it's foolish to look at the results of a match and say, "Oh, funny ... he's more technical, how come he ended up K.O'ed?" Are you serious?
> 
> ...


You have absolutely nothing but bias in your post.... what exactly makes one technique "technical" and another "sloppy"? I just explained how scientific and effective the mechanism of Fedor's strikes is... unpredictable arc, faster deployment, less telegraphing, more power etc. Except some people will apparently will always need some skinny asian hollywood actor hanging on strings and with sped up tapes, to define what "technical" is. 

"Technical" is defined as _of or relating to technique or proficiency in a practical skill; "his technical innovation was his brushwork"; _

Bottomline, it is defined by practical, logical and scientific knowledge and innovation that is EFFECTIVE in any given field, as opposed to arbitrary, unscientific, impractical or whimsical knowledge. A gorilla running forward swinging it's arms comes nothing close to the logical process behind fedor's striking. 

Ironically that kind of thing would be closer to the roots of your Avatar Bruce Lee's striking ... traditional Wing Chun is the one that invented techniques like "Flying Crane", "Snake Style", "Preying Mantis" and so on based on bullshit interpretive dance mimicking animals, as opposed to the scientific and logical principles behind techniques in modern boxing, MT, and *****. I'm sure if you look hard enough, you'll find your charming "Swinging Gorilla" style in Wing Chun somewhere ... practical arts like combat ***** honed by ring fighting are not it.

Arlovski was not outstriking fedor ... touching someone without hurting them is NOT outstriking. This is not ballet or TKD pointfighting, it's MMA and the point is to hurt your opponent... which only Fedor managed in that fight, end of story. It was Fedor's short casting punch technique that won him the fight ... a full overhand or straight powerpunch would have taken far too much loading time to counter Arlovksi's quick leap. 

More likely Arlovski would have done serious damage to Fedor with that knee if Fedor hadn't trained his so called sloppy technique to instantly zero in and launch full power within a split second.

No one is denying that guys like Silva, Machida, Lesnar, Mir, Cain or JDS are a threat to Fedor. But that is because they have great technique of their own that can compete with Fedor's ... not because Fedor is some unskilled swinging lout on his feet that gets lucky.


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## Atilak (Nov 24, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> You have absolutely nothing but bias in your post.... what exactly makes one technique "technical" and another "sloppy"? I just explained how scientific and effective the mechanism of Fedor's strikes is... unpredictable arc, faster deployment, less telegraphing, more power etc. Except some people will apparently will always need some skinny asian hollywood actor hanging on strings and with sped up tapes, to define what "technical" is.
> 
> "Technical" is defined as _of or relating to technique or proficiency in a practical skill; "his technical innovation was his brushwork"; _
> 
> ...


Fedor is just sloppy lucker with no skill :sarcastic12:


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## joe davola (Feb 10, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> More likely Arlovski would have done serious damage to Fedor with that knee if Fedor hadn't trained his so called sloppy technique to instantly zero in and launch full power within a split second.
> 
> 
> 
> WHAT? anybody could have seen that knee coming would you say the same about buentello/struve he threw a overhand right wake up to yourself


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## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> You have absolutely nothing but bias in your post.... what exactly makes one technique "technical" and another "sloppy"? I just explained how scientific and effective the mechanism of Fedor's strikes is... unpredictable arc, faster deployment, less telegraphing, more power etc. *Except some people will apparently will always need some skinny asian hollywood actor hanging on strings and with sped up tapes, to define what "technical" is.*
> 
> "Technical" is defined as _of or relating to technique or proficiency in a practical skill; "his technical innovation was his brushwork"; _
> 
> ...


Meh, if you're going to be ridiculous, I'm just going to step out of this conversation.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Servatose said:


> Meh, if you're going to be ridiculous, I'm just going to step out of this conversation.


Well sorry disregard that part and debate the rest then. Solid technique is solid technique.



joe davola said:


> WHAT? anybody could have seen that knee coming would you say the same about buentello/struve he threw a overhand right wake up to yourself



Yes because obviously a slow ass gangly C level grappler like Struve is the same on his feet as one of the fastest heavyweight strikers of all time in Arlovski. 

Rothwell and Nelson certainly didn't see it coming, certainly not enough to react with a full blown strike, and they've got fairly sharp striking reactions.

YOU wake up .. uh ...to yourself :confused02:


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

EDIT: Multiple post


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## Godzuki (Feb 26, 2007)

Servatose said:


> Meh, if you're going to be ridiculous, I'm just going to step out of this conversation.


Lidellianenko's just pointing out that some peoples perception of what is technical is based on what they see in the movies (correct me if I'm wrong, dude). He might have been able to put it in a better way, but for you to focus on that as an excuse to back out of the debate and ignore all the very valid points that have been made to counter your argument, is well.....just lame, dude. lol


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Godzuki said:


> Lidellianenko's just pointing out that some peoples perception of what is technical is based on what they see in the movies (correct me if I'm wrong, dude). He might have been able to put it in a better way, but for you to focus on that as an excuse to back out of the debate and ignore all the very valid points that have been made to counter your argument, is well.....just lame, dude. lol


exactly


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## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

Godzuki said:


> Lidellianenko's just pointing out that some peoples perception of what is technical is based on what they see in the movies (correct me if I'm wrong, dude). He might have been able to put it in a better way, but for you to focus on that as an excuse to back out of the debate and ignore all the very valid points that have been made to counter your argument, is well.....just lame, dude. lol


I'm not 'backing out' as an excuse. I'm backing out because I don't wish to argue. Lidellianenko felt the need to turn this into a Bruce Lee conversation once again. He's done it before to me, and frankly it's just immature. I didn't mention Bruce Lee, or Hollywood at all. In fact, the technique I was comparing Fedor's punches to was modern boxing. A sport with some of the most developed and deep rooted technique in all of striking. I can guarantee that the technique level of Fedor's punches would never last in a professional boxing match. He would be looked at like an unrefined wild man. And my point was, you can call his technique whatever you want, it still won't hold up in high end technical striking. There are plenty of arts that lose practically when the specific technique is practiced against someone who won't make the mistake they need to for an opponent to land a blow like that.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Servatose said:


> I'm not 'backing out' as an excuse. I'm backing out because I don't wish to argue. Lidellianenko felt the need to turn this into a Bruce Lee conversation once again. He's done it before to me, and frankly it's just immature. I didn't mention Bruce Lee, or Hollywood at all. In fact, the technique I was comparing Fedor's punches to was modern boxing. A sport with some of the most developed and deep rooted technique in all of striking. I can guarantee that the technique level of Fedor's punches would never last in a professional boxing match. He would be looked at like an unrefined wild man. And my point was, you can call his technique whatever you want, it still won't hold up in high end technical striking. There are plenty of arts that lose practically when the specific technique is practiced against someone who won't make the mistake they need to for an opponent to land a blow like that.


Except this isn't boxing... this is it's more complete and realistic cousin called MMA where people don't have giant ass gloves to hide behind and can't conveniently start hugging every 2 secs when a real punch is thrown. Boxing is not more "technical" than MMA, just better at making use of it's own thousands of restrictions and protective equipment. It's a different sport.

It's actually pure Boxers who get destroyed by better and fuller techniques when they try to fight in Kickboxing or MMA, and I'm talking even while standing. Take a look at Ray Mercer's pathetic attempts at kickboxing for example. Boxing is nice, but it's just one set of very restricted techniques.

And Fedor's technique HAS held up against tons of high end technical striking (like prime CroCop, Schlit, Hunt, Arlovski, Sylvia, Rogers, HMC etc.) for over THIRTY pro fights without failing him ONCE. No other top pro fighter can argue that, not even Machida really since Shogun. Fedor has NEVER been beaten on his feet. You're arguing on what you want, not facts.


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## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> Except this isn't boxing... this is it's more complete and realistic cousin called MMA where people don't have giant ass gloves to hide behind and can't conveniently start hugging every 2 secs when a real punch is thrown. Boxing is not more "technical" than MMA, just better at making use of it's own thousands of restrictions and protective equipment. It's a different sport.
> 
> It's actually pure Boxers who get destroyed by better and fuller techniques when they try to fight in Kickboxing or MMA, and I'm talking even while standing. Take a look at Ray Mercer's pathetic attempts at kickboxing for example. Boxing is nice, but it's just one set of very restricted techniques.
> 
> And Fedor's technique HAS held up against tons of high end technical striking (like prime CroCop, Schlit, Hunt, Arlovski, Sylvia, Rogers, HMC etc.) for over THIRTY pro fights without failing him ONCE. No other top pro fighter can argue that, not even Machida really since Shogun. Fedor has NEVER been beaten on his feet. You're arguing on what you want, not facts.


There are a couple of issues with this response. First and foremost you're trying to discount my approach to Fedor's technical level of punching by saying a boxer wouldn't last in MMA, something I completely agree with -- and never contested to begin with. A pure boxer wouldn't last in MMA, but that has nothing to do with the technicality behind punching technique being measurable through boxing. In fact, in one of your earlier posts you even mention the credibility of boxing techniques. If a fighter is punching, then we can certainly measure their technique with boxing. We're not saying, "Pure boxing is successful in MMA." We're taking Fedor's punches out of MMA context and analyzing them. And I'm saying if you put Fedor in a professional boxing ring, where he was using the technique he did in the Andrei Arlovski match he would get murdered every time. I'm fully aware that boxing doesn't have kicks, knees, elbows, but that doesn't really matter when we're just talking about his punches. 

And secondly, I'm not saying Fedor has ever been beaten. One recurring concept throughout this debate that people don't seem to understand is that success doesn't equal perfection.

It's the same thing as saying, right before Chuck Liddell fought Quinton the second time that Chuck Liddell's technique is terrible. Sure he's been successful for a long time, but now that MMA is evolving and technique is improving, his lack of technique has been exposed. And I can guarantee that if that conversation were to take place back when Chuck was in his prime, plenty of people would be attacking my points, asking me why he had been K.Oing everyone, if that were the case. You can win and still not be perfect, it's that simple.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

lets take this a step further. if you are argueing that Fedors striking (with his hands) is very techniqal, then how would he fare in a boxing ring doing those strikes??

i say he gets KO'd by any top HW boxer easily.

working or not, he used them against guys who dont really have great technique.

Big Timmy showed us his great boxing technique vs Mercer. Mercer did him worse then Fedor tho.

AA has pretty good boxing. He was flat out winning the standup and dictating everything in that fight.

I dont know why ppl think Fedor had better technique that night cuz AA threw a retarded knee when he didnt need to and got caught.

Fedors striking definately works and definately is practiced and not some made up technique.

It still isnt the best technique which is why you will NEVER see top boxers fight standing like that.

If that ***** shit was the best standup.... believe me.... boxers would be using those punches too. Dont think boxers and trainers havent tried every punch concieveable??


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## creepjacker (Jul 19, 2009)

Isn't Silva non fighting weight around 220 or so? I could have swore I read that somewhere.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

alizio said:


> If that ***** shit was the best standup.... believe me.... boxers would be using those punches too. Dont think boxers and trainers havent tried every punch concieveable??


***** was designed to incapacitate an opponent, not for sport though. It's used by Russian military. If boxing was the best standup, wouldn't you think Russian military would make use of it to kill people instead of *****? I'm obviously exaggerating here... but I hope you get my point here.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

alizio said:


> lets take this a step further. if you are argueing that Fedors striking (with his hands) is very techniqal, then how would he fare in a boxing ring doing those strikes??
> 
> i say he gets KO'd by any top HW boxer easily.
> 
> ...


The reason you won't see boxers using it is because of those big gloves. For one it just isn't enough of an investment to throw that kind of a power punch with such strain on yourself when 99% of the time it's just gonna meet a giant pillow. This is not the case in MMA or in the real world.

The second and bigger reason is something Fedor actually talks in his seminars about how his punching technique makes use of the smaller protection offered by mma gloves. The thing is, traditional boxing blocking mostly just consists of holding your hands by the sides or in front of your head. Of course with huge 12-16oz gloves, that amounts to a full shield really. Nothing will get through unless someone drops that guard to protect the body or throw a punch themselves. But this is an unrealistic shield in real unarmed combat and outside the limited sport of boxing.

In the real world or world of MMA with small gloves, there are massive gaps in that shield. This is why the casting punch is so good ... because it kind of fakes a hook, which baits people into hugging the side of their head with their hands ... but with small gloves, the front is completely exposed. The punch actually cuts a small arc and comes straight through instead.

Not only that, but the momentum and shoulder movement at that angle allows for some excellent takedown setups that are not granted by traditional boxing punches. If you'll notice, even when people dodge those "loopy" punches of Fedor, they usually find themselves being tackled and tripped in that one same motion. Again, with boxing's "no takedown" rule, it takes out another real technical element.

Fedor would do just fine standing up against top Boxers as long as they don't have their pillows to hide behind. He's destroyed plenty of elite kickboxers, who tend to dominate boxers that stray into their realm.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> The reason you won't see boxers using it is because of those big gloves. For one it just isn't enough of an investment to throw that kind of a power punch with such strain on yourself when 99% of the time it's just gonna meet a giant pillow. This is not the case in MMA or in the real world.
> 
> The second and bigger reason is something Fedor actually talks in his seminars about how his punching technique makes use of the smaller protection offered by mma gloves. The thing is, traditional boxing blocking mostly just consists of holding your hands by the sides or in front of your head. Of course with huge 12-16oz gloves, that amounts to a full shield really. Nothing will get through unless someone drops that guard to protect the body or throw a punch themselves. But this is an unrealistic shield in real unarmed combat and outside the limited sport of boxing.
> 
> ...


 i respect *****. It obviously works for Fedor. I have no doubt you know more about the technique then i do.

The thing is. It looks like it should be mixed in with real crisp boxing. Fedor doesnt do that. Just this. If he did both there is no doubt he would be way more dangerous and have way less holes.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I'd rather see Lyoto Machida against Anderson Silva. More similar styles and mor fireworks. This fight is more likely to happen, since both are in the UFC and Fedor is held hostage by these clowns at M1.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

alizio said:


> i respect *****. It obviously works for Fedor. I have no doubt you know more about the technique then i do.
> 
> The thing is. It looks like it should be mixed in with real crisp boxing. Fedor doesnt do that. Just this. If he did both there is no doubt he would be way more dangerous and have way less holes.


True enough. Of course I respect boxing too and train it some, and most MMA fighters could benefit from some sharper boxing skills once they adapt it a bit.


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## Servatose (Apr 21, 2008)

Liddellianenko said:


> The reason you won't see boxers using it is because of those big gloves. For one it just isn't enough of an investment to throw that kind of a power punch with such strain on yourself when 99% of the time it's just gonna meet a giant pillow. This is not the case in MMA or in the real world.
> 
> The second and bigger reason is something Fedor actually talks in his seminars about how his punching technique makes use of the smaller protection offered by mma gloves. The thing is, traditional boxing blocking mostly just consists of holding your hands by the sides or in front of your head. Of course with huge 12-16oz gloves, that amounts to a full shield really. Nothing will get through unless someone drops that guard to protect the body or throw a punch themselves. But this is an unrealistic shield in real unarmed combat and outside the limited sport of boxing.
> 
> ...


I think most of your points are correct. It'd be foolish of me to sit here and say that the size of boxing gloves doesn't offer an unrealistic element to boxing. However, the implications that you simply have to put your hands up I think is a short-sighted one. You'll find in anything with limitations, that to overcome them an athlete will implore a more broad arsenal. Sure, the gloves are huge and offer a large defense. But these are why things such as foot, head, and body movement exist, they serve to create angles that various punches can connect with.

The extent of technique isn't simply measured with how a punch is thrown, or where it is thrown. But footwork, and the angles created by that movement come into play. I think this is exemplified by the amount of movement top tier strikers will use in a sport like boxing. And in a sport as new and unrefined as MMA, to imply that a top MMA striker would last in a boxing match with a top boxer, regardless of the glove size is a foolish notion. There are plenty of offensive boxers who've made a big name for themselves without 'hiding behind pillows' but instead using footwork and body movement. Such as Tyson's utilization of the Dempsey Roll. These are techniques that have been tried and proven for longer than MMA has even been around.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Servatose said:


> I think most of your points are correct. It'd be foolish of me to sit here and say that the size of boxing gloves doesn't offer an unrealistic element to boxing. However, the implications that you simply have to put your hands up I think is a short-sighted one. You'll find in anything with limitations, that to overcome them an athlete will implore a more broad arsenal. Sure, the gloves are huge and offer a large defense. But these are why things such as foot, head, and body movement exist, they serve to create angles that various punches can connect with.
> 
> The extent of technique isn't simply measured with how a punch is thrown, or where it is thrown. But footwork, and the angles created by that movement come into play. I think this is exemplified by the amount of movement top tier strikers will use in a sport like boxing. And in a sport as new and unrefined as MMA, to imply that a top MMA striker would last in a boxing match with a top boxer, regardless of the glove size is a foolish notion. There are plenty of offensive boxers who've made a big name for themselves without 'hiding behind pillows' but instead using footwork and body movement. Such as Tyson's utilization of the Dempsey Roll. These are techniques that have been tried and proven for longer than MMA has even been around.


nm ... let's just leave it at Fedor's striking technique is not sloppy. I admit it'd be nice to see some top boxers stand and bang with top "MMA" strikers (though MMA is a bit broad and not really a style in itself). That is other than a zombie Sylvia who just had his soul stolen by Fedor.

That's why Toney makes me curious ... I actually wish they don't feed him to a grappler right away.


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## VolcomX311 (Aug 18, 2009)

xeberus said:


> I think anderson would get taken down and GNP out by fedor


Agreed


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

Servatose said:


> Faster and stronger than who? Anderson and Lyoto? To compare someone like Cro Cop to either of the two is just plain ignorance. The sport has evolved so much since Cro Cop was on top in Pride, and he demonstrates that every time he steps into the Octagon.
> 
> Cro Cop will never be and has never been as technically brilliant a striker as Anderson or Lyoto. His movement has never been superb. He uses footwork to stalk his opponents as opposed to cutting them off.
> 
> ...


I totally agree that comparing Cro Cop to Machida and Silva is like comparing a hampster to a panther and a leopard. Though while Cro Cop is a good fighter and had his day, in this stage of MMA's evolution, he wouldn't stand a chance against champion level fighters. I suspect if Cro Cop ever fought Anderson it wouldn't last 2 minutes and if he fought Machida he'd join the very short list of fighters who f*ck up so royaly that Machida executes a beautiful KTFO(Evans, Thiago SIlva).

I would agree that against Silva, Fedor wouldn't tool his opponent like he appears to. Though he has a very legitimate shot at defeating Silva, expecially if it goes to the ground. The same with Machida, though he may have a better shot standing against Machida, although taking Machida down would be a little harder than with Silva IMO.


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## Godzuki (Feb 26, 2007)

I think judging MMA striking in a Boxing context is like comparing apples to oranges. It's a bit like calling a Judoka's take-downs sloppy when compared to a wrestler's. :dunno:

Anyhoo, I think this is one of those agree to disagree scenarios, there's been some interesting points made on both sides though. You can always rely on MMAF for a bit of juicy debate. :thumbsup:


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## rabakill (Apr 22, 2007)

alizio said:


> i respect *****. It obviously works for Fedor. I have no doubt you know more about the technique then i do.
> 
> The thing is. It looks like it should be mixed in with real crisp boxing. Fedor doesnt do that. Just this. If he did both there is no doubt he would be way more dangerous and have way less holes.


for a pudgy bald guy that is 30 pounds less than many of his competitors, he doesn't have many holes. Where has the showed weakness that has lost him a fight?


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