# Dana White: Wanderlei Silva Won't Fight Chael Sonnen...



## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Dana White: Wanderlei Silva Won't Fight Chael Sonnen, Wants PPV Points

All of Chael Sonnen's tough talk that Wanderlei Silva has been ducking him for years could arguably have some merit, based on the latest update on the potential grudge match by UFC President Dana White. 

White told MMA Fighting's Ariel Helwani that negotiations for this heavily anticipated matchup have come to a standstill since "The Axe Murderer" wants PPV points in order to fight Sonnen. 

"[Silva] said he won't fight him unless he gets PPV [points] so I guess he's gonna retire," White said to Helwani through a text message. When asked what he plans on doing with Sonnen next, White wrote, "we will figure it out."

The news is particularly disappointing since on last night's episode of "FOX Sports Live," White announced that he would like to book Sonnen vs. Silva as the co-main event for UFC 167 in November, as long as Wanderlei was healthy (via MMA Junkie). 

However, it appears that the Brazilian fan favorite is ready to fight—as long as he's getting a hefty paycheck for his efforts. 

Sonnen made it very clear that he wanted to fight Silva next, giving a spirited post-fight interview with color commentator Joe Rogan after submitting Mauricio Rua at UFC Fight Night 26 last week (via UFC.com).

In the five days since then, Silva has been mostly silent on the issue, aside from a tweet on Sunday that said "UFC haven't called yet!!!!!," indicating he was waiting for a fight offer from the company. 

After tapping "Shogun" with a guillotine choke, Sonnen is just 3-3 in his past six bouts, though he is a solid 8-1 in his past nine non-title fights. 

On the other hand, Silva has won three of his past five scraps inside the Octagon, though is just 4-5 in his past nine matchups, being inconsistent ever since making the transition from the Pride ring in late 2007. 

Despite being a reasonable middleweight or light heavyweight matchup for the better part of the past two years, there is now serious doubt that Sonnen and Silva ever settle their differences inside the cage.​
Silva's in a tough spot on this one. He's been talking a lot. Now he's not going to fight? Eek. Chael's going to have a field day on this one.

I can see where he's coming from. Be nice if he gets a lot of cash, but to talk all that talk an then refuse because of money he's not worth? I think on this one, he needs to reconsider.


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## usernamewoman (Sep 24, 2007)

this fight might be many things but heavily anticipated is not one of them


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Yeah I'll make sure to have the PPV provider on speed dial if this fight gets made. :sarcastic12:


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Dana White: Wanderlei Silva Won't Fight Chael Sonnen _because we aren't going to pay him what he wants._


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Chael P. Sonnen. The man who put the fear of God into the Axe Murderer.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

As an elder stateman I think he deserves a bit of the honey pot. He's bashed his brains enough man. It should be a closed door deal though otherwise everyone especially ones who don't deserve it will be coming out of the wood work.

In the words of KGB. Pay the man his money. 

Give us the show!


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## 3DLee (Aug 30, 2006)

I find this to be a really crappy move on the part of Wanderlei. Sure, I get it. Some of you don't seem very enthused but this WOULD be a big seller IMO. All evidence points to how well Chael's fights do on pay per view or otherwise that's why hes been getting title fights and main event matches. Wanderlei wants his piece of the pie. But what is crappy on Wandy's part is that he has a contract in place. Its really unprofessional to go to the negotiation table mid contract. That's not the way contracts work. I agree with Dana in the fact that Wandy either fights for his already agreed on pay or retire. 

I hope Wandy steps up as a man of his word and fights Chael.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

I posted this in another thread but it makes more sense here.

Sonnen is the one making this about money, not Wanderlei, by insisting on being put on a big anniversary PPV event (as usual) simply for doing his stupid WWE shtick. If he's so badass he should just fight on a free fox card.

All articles about this fight said Sonnen called out Wanderlei for this card and Dana is down ... what about Wanderlei, is he chopped liver? This guy's style and aggression selling the fight as much as Sonnen, why does Dana only entertain Sonnen's demands like which card to fight on etc. which are clearly motivated by money? 

It is obvious that bolstering an existing great event with a GSP fight against his most dangerous opponent ever, on an anniversary card, is a HUGE PPV cut. Why should Wanderlei just play along to line Sonnen or for that matter Dana's pockets? Just because Chael called him a pile of crap? Oh that's great, let's just repay disrespect with a million bucks for him and nothing for yourself, that'll teach him!

He is well aware how much the UFC would make from the kind of buildup Wanderlei and Sonnen already have, his legacy, and his entertaining blitz fight style. If he wants to negotiate that is his right and fine.

If Sonnen is such a "true fighter" who just fights and calls out whoever he wants, then why not just fight on a random free fight night card tough guy? Better yet, just duke it out on the streets when Wanderlei called you out in the van, instead of thanking him and pissing yourself then, and talking behind twitter and now a ref for safety. It's all an act, a show, and Wanderlei's not falling for it unless he is cut in on it.


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## Trix (Dec 15, 2009)

Wanderlei imitates Floyd Mayweather, making unrealistic demands, to avoid fighting Manny Pacquiao??


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Trix said:


> Wanderlei imitates Floyd Mayweather, making unrealistic demands, to avoid fighting Manny Pacquiao??


Why is Chael demanding to fight on the GSP PPV then? Why are his demands realistic?


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Liddellianenko said:


> I posted this in another thread but it makes more sense here.
> 
> Sonnen is the one making this about money, not Wanderlei, by insisting on being put on a big anniversary PPV event (as usual) simply for doing his stupid WWE shtick. If he's so badass he should just fight on a free fox card.
> 
> ...


He already did fight on fox on free tv, twice actually. Chael should get all the room for negotiating since he is a promotion machine, same reason why mayweather and lesnar dictate there own terms. Wandy is just being a fraud talking all his smack about wanting to fight chael but will run away at the first pen handed to him to sign the contract.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

UFC_OWNS said:


> He already did fight on fox on free tv, twice actually. Chael should get all the room for negotiating since he is a promotion machine, same reason why mayweather and lesnar dictate there own terms. Wandy is just being a fraud talking all his smack about wanting to fight chael but will run away at the first pen handed to him to sign the contract.


Those two were not hot sellers like this one. Bisping is not a big PPV draw, he is only good for headlining mediocre UK cards. Shogun has been shot for years and people don't buy his PPVs ... in his last 6 fights, the guy has beaten only Forrest and Vera, both also completely washed up. He hasn't had cardio or TDD for years now.

Wanderlei, while not exactly in the peak of youth, still has relevant wins like Stann, Le, Bisping. He is still relevant and exciting, if not the champ he used to be. He also has a major fan following and is coming off a huge KO victory with some momentum. His chin is fading but his KO power, cardio and TDD are still there.

Please don't tell me Chael P Sonnen, who has never won a major title in his entire career, is more of a "promotional machine" than the longest reigning Pride MW champ, Pride GP winner and ex-Vale Tudo LHW champ. Half the people I know that got into MMA did so while watching his videos destroying guys on youtube. The man whose name was synonymous with knockouts in MMA for a decade, while Chael was busy laying on guys and getting subbed. He still gave a great KO and fantastic fight his last time in the octagon.

The only reason Chael sold many PPVs is because he did it by challenging (and admittedly once putting up a good fight) against the MW and the LHW Goat. His shtick sells nothing on it's own, please don't compare him to Mayweather or Lesnar, both much more accomplished than him inside and outside pro Boxing / MMA. Mayweather was an olympic medalist boxer and is the p4p AND PPV champ of boxing, Lesnar was a UFC champ, a freak athlete with 2 NCAA titles, an NFL career, 300 lbs of monstrous muscle, and a WWE following. Chael has some bad jokes and a near miss against Anderson.

Put Mayweather against a bum and you'll still get a million buys, put Sonnen against one and most guys wouldn't even bother streaming.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Liddellianenko said:


> Those two were not hot sellers like this one. Bisping is not a big PPV draw, he is only good for headlining mediocre UK cards. Shogun has been shot for years and people don't buy his PPVs ... in his last 6 fights, the guy has beaten only Forrest and Vera, both also completely washed up. He hasn't had cardio or TDD for years now.
> 
> Wanderlei, while not exactly in the peak of youth, still has relevant wins like Stann, Le, Bisping. He is still relevant and exciting, if not the champ he used to be. He also has a major fan following and is coming off a huge KO victory with some momentum. His chin is fading but his KO power, cardio and TDD are still there.
> 
> ...



Exactly, your post is spot on. This is just another perfect example of how dumb Sonnen fans really are, here's another example of their logic,

A well past his prime Wand has beaten Stann and Bisping yet somehow he's made out to be irrelevant by them, Sonnen has beaten Stann and Bisping yet he's relevant. 

On top of it there's a ridiculous high volume of sock puppets doing their best Sonnen impersonations on internet message boards again because Sonnen beat a dead corpse last week.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

BOOM said:


> Exactly, your post is spot on. This is just another perfect example of how dumb Sonnen fans really are, here's another example of their logic,
> 
> A well past his prime Wand has beaten Stann and Bisping yet somehow he's made out to be irrelevant by them, Sonnen has beaten Stann and Bisping yet he's relevant.
> 
> On top of it there's a ridiculous high volume of sock puppets doing their best Sonnen impersonations on internet message boards again because Sonnen beat a dead corpse last week.


yes because get dropped and almost finished in a war with stann is as impressive as ragdolling stann when he had even more momentum and was ranked. It's hilarious how you say how dumb sonnen fans are when you seem to have less chromosomes 
than the cast of jersey shore. Don't quit your day job whatever that is because making conversation and posting isn't forte.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

UFC_OWNS said:


> yes because get dropped and almost finished in a war with stann is as impressive as ragdolling stann when he had even more momentum and was ranked. It's hilarious how you say how dumb sonnen fans are when you seem to have less chromosomes
> than the cast of jersey shore. Don't quit your day job whatever that is because making conversation and posting isn't forte.


Wait you're using the "almost" argument in where Silva actually won the fight and pumping up Sonnen "I *almost* accomplished something in my career" in the same paragraph? 

Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.


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## Adam365 (Jul 10, 2008)

dana white doing the ole reverse psychology trick


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## GDPofDRB (Apr 18, 2013)

Terrible business by the UFC and White here as expected. Shit on the legacy of one of the greatest, most poular and most exciting, even today, fighter in the short history of this sport because the richest figures in MMA today, the tortila bros and white, are too ******* greedy. Another test for if you are or ever were a fan or just a simple wave riding shill. How anyone can back White on this shit unless he is paying them is something I don't get, and I'm very thankful for that.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

GDPofDRB said:


> Terrible business by the UFC and White here as expected. Shit on the legacy of one of the greatest, most poular and most exciting, even today, fighter in the short history of this sport because the richest figures in MMA today, the tortila bros and white, are too ******* greedy. Another test for if you are or ever were a fan or just a simple wave riding shill. How anyone can back White on this shit unless he is paying them is something I don't get, and I'm very thankful for that.


Exactly, Dana and the UFC are in the wrong here. If Wand does'nt take the fight after being offered the money he most certainly deserves then people might actually have a point.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

I get it, and I don't really think any less of Wandy for it. He probably knows that his career is about over and that he has little chance of beating Sonnen, so he is trying to make as much money as he possibly can while he still has the opportunity. I don't think he is scared or anything silly like that, I think he is just trying to make a fight that he has very little chance of winning worth his while.


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

I imagine Wanderlei wants more money because he thinks the fight will be a big draw. I can't blame him, he is getting close to the end of his career and he knows it. The problem is the UFC knows this as well. If he passes on this fight he may not get another. It's not like he is in contention, all his fights are entertaining but it mostly novelty fights. 

If it is a big draw, IMO, it will be because of Chael's promotion not Wanderlaei's. I haven't heard that Chael wants more money for the fight, maybe he gets PPV points and that is why he wants it on PPV. He apparently has better managers than Wanderlei.

As someone else mentioned Wanderlei has a contract, he was offered a fight. He can either accept, per his contract, or as is his right, ask for more money. Apparently the UFC doesn't think a 4-5 fighter is worth more than he is already guaranteed under his current contract.


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## Scarecrow (Mar 20, 2008)

Silva has a contract.

Sonnen has a contract.

Neither one of them deserve PPV points because neither one of them has that stipulation in their contracts.

If they want to fight for what they are currently signed to earn per fight, then let them fight.

If they ask otherwise that what is stated in their current contracts, then to hell with both of them and let them sit on their asses.


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## TanyaJade (Aug 31, 2010)

I like Wanderlei a lot but this is kind of fishy on his part.


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> Those two were not hot sellers like this one. Bisping is not a big PPV draw, he is only good for headlining mediocre UK cards. Shogun has been shot for years and people don't buy his PPVs ... in his last 6 fights, the guy has beaten only Forrest and Vera, both also completely washed up. .


To be honest, if you review the buyrates from the more recent PPVs both Wanderlei and Bisping have participated in i don't think you could make a sound argument that one is bigger than the other.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Isn't it weird to think that not that long ago people would have laughed at the idea of Chael facing Wandy and now the general consensus is that Wandy would/will get completely owned if this goes down? Its strange how things change like that.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

gazh said:


> To be honest, if you review the buyrates from the more recent PPVs both Wanderlei and Bisping have participated in i don't think you could make a sound argument that one is bigger than the other.


You can't just go by participation, that's not a fair comparison. Wanderlei participated in cards recently with the new division guys and no-names as headliners whereas Bisping participated in cards with rising PPV king Jones as the headliner.

If you compare what they headlined, and weren't bolstered by other big fighters, then Wanderlei's Franklin PPV with not much else but him and Franklin did much better than any of the UK cards that Bisping headlined with only him as the star power. Actually wait I think Bisping has actually only headlined one PPV ever and that was against Rashad who was a rising star and had some other great fights, other than that he's only ever headlined free cards. There's isn't much to compare with, Wanderlei has headlined plenty of PPVs both in the UFC and Pride but Bisping only has one.


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

Scarecrow said:


> Silva has a contract.
> 
> Sonnen has a contract.
> 
> ...


Tell that to Sonnen. He got PPV points in his new contract, he's boasted about it. Wanderlei does not, and is trying to do the same. 

Wanderlei is an all time great, long reigning Pride champ, a legend, and an exciting KO artist. Sonnen makes jokes and almost kinda sorta beat a legend. Then got his ass kicked by said legend. Then called out another rising legend and got his ass kicked again. And he deserves this cut over Wanderlei why again ?


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Liddellianenko said:


> Tell that to Sonnen. He got PPV points in his new contract, he's boasted about it. Wanderlei does not, and is trying to do the same.
> 
> Wanderlei is an all time great, long reigning Pride champ, a legend, and an exciting KO artist. Sonnen makes jokes and almost kinda sorta beat a legend. Then got his ass kicked by said legend. Then called out another rising legend and got his ass kicked again. And he deserves this cut over Wanderlei why again ?




Spot on again Liddellianenko. 

No one seems to have much of a problem with a fringe top 10 LHW getting paid in spades but a top 10 fighter in the entire history of the sport somehow does'nt deserve an extra piece of the pie in a fight he's going to be co-headlining for the UFC. What?

:confused03:


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## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

Im okay with this fight. Being a huge Silva fan I know Sonnen will not knock Wand out lol. If Silva can keep it standing he can overwhelm him....the moment that starts happening though Sonnen will take him down.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

BOOM said:


> Spot on again Liddellianenko.
> 
> No one seems to have much of a problem with a fringe top 10 LHW getting paid in spades but a top 10 fighter in the entire history of the sport somehow does'nt deserve an extra piece of the pie in a fight he's going to be co-headlining for the UFC. What?
> 
> :confused03:


Wandy hasn't done well in the UFC. You can only trade on your history for so long. A four and five record in the UFC isn't good.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Silva wants a big pay check because he knows his career is coming to an end. He knows Sonnen has a good chance at beating him and if he is going to take that risk wants to be paid handsomely for it.

Sonnen wants to fight on the same card as GSP since he gets a cut of PPV and GSP sells. Sonnen gets a cut since he has done a decent job at selling some bigger name fights. Wanderlei doesn't get a cut of PPV since he doesn't have that big of a following(maybe in Brazil) and hasn't done very well in the UFC.

Edit: To further add to this. How many former Pride fans do you think there are that purchase PPVs? I bet that number is very small compared to the total amount of PPVs purchased and those old time Pride fans are the only ones that really think that highly of Wanderlei.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Might have to start an entirely new thread because this VIDEO CRACKED ME UP...BIG TIME! Somebody stirred up the hornet's nest.


Welcome to Wandlish where he'll beat you up verbally/mentally. Imagine having an interrogator like him spewing all that.


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> And he deserves this cut over Wanderlei why again ?


Because he is more popular than Wanderlei and a bigger draw. Maybe not world wide, but this is the UFC an American company, and here Chael is rating gold. Be that good or bad.

No doubt Wanderlei is a legend of the sport, but it's not about what he did in Pride it's about what he has done in the UFC.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


> Might have to start an entirely new thread because this VIDEO CRACKED ME UP...BIG TIME! Somebody stirred up the hornet's nest.
> 
> 
> Welcome to Wandlish where he'll beat you up verbally/mentally. Imagine having an interrogator like him spewing all that.


That was Hulkamania esque. Wandy was channeling his inner terry bolea.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

WHATCHA GONNA DO BROTHA, WHEN THE LARGEST ARMS IN THE WORLD ROLL OVER YOU!!! 

Yah...that's a sign for me to put a thread for everyone to enjoy this Friday afternoon. Too funny!


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

Term said:


> *Because he is more popular than Wanderlei and a bigger draw*. Maybe not world wide, but this is the UFC an American company, and here Chael is rating gold. Be that good or bad.
> 
> No doubt Wanderlei is a legend of the sport, but it's not about what he did in Pride it's about what he has done in the UFC.


I totally disagree with that statement.
IMHO, Wandy is 10x more popular than Sonnen.

Sonnen may get more publicity, but that doesnt make him more popular.

Is he 'Gold'? I have no idea, but I wont buy a single Sonnen T-shirt or pay for him headlin' a PPV event... but for Wandy? Hell yeah!

You might be able to sell me Sonnen being more popular that Wandy in the USA... but geezus... He is frikin HUGE in Japan and Brazil.. OH but whatever, those places dont count rite? :confused05:


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

joshua7789 said:


> Wandy hasn't done well in the UFC. You can only trade on your history for so long. A four and five record in the UFC isn't good.


What kind of even comparable historical accomplishments does Sonnen have to someone like Wand? Zero.

Sonnen's recent record is not much better than Wand over the last few years, he's 4-3 in his last 7 fights. Wand is well past his prime but has beat the same fighters that Sonnen has in the UFC over this same time span.

Wand has every right in the world to ask for the kind of money that Sonnen will be getting considering he's one of the fighters headlining the actual fight.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

BOOM said:


> What kind of even comparable historical accomplishments does Sonnen have to someone like Wand? Zero.
> 
> Sonnen's recent record is not much better than Wand over the last few years, he's 4-3 in his last 7 fights. Wand is well past his prime but has beat the same fighters that Sonnen has in the UFC over this same time span.
> 
> Wand has every right in the world to ask for the kind of money that Sonnen will be getting considering he's one of the fighters headlining the actual fight.


My point was that historical accomplishments don't mean that much at this point. Wandy was great in Pride, a true legend, but he has been mediocre at best in the UFC. If people were paid upon how great they used to be, than Tito would still be loaded.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

No_Mercy said:


>


Only Wand can say the same shit for 5 solid minutes. He could have probably gone on for hours. Like a goldfish; forgetting what he said 1 minute ago and repeating it ad nauseam. Hes not the sharpest tool in the box, thats for sure.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

joshua7789 said:


> My point was that historical accomplishments don't mean that much at this point. Wandy was great in Pride, a true legend, but he has been mediocre at best in the UFC. If people were paid upon how great they used to be, than Tito would still be loaded.


Sonnen was never great, has a mediocre record in the UFC yet he's getting paid. Wand should absolutely be making some extra as well, he deserves it a hell of a lot more in fact.





attention said:


> I totally disagree with that statement.
> IMHO, Wandy is 10x more popular than Sonnen.
> 
> Sonnen may get more publicity, but that doesnt make him more popular.
> ...



Yep, in the overall picture and on a scale of 1-10 which includes the entire planet as you mentioned Wand is a solid 9 while Sonnen is maybe a 3.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

joshua7789 said:


> My point was that historical accomplishments don't mean that much at this point. Wandy was great in Pride, a true legend, but he has been mediocre at best in the UFC. If people were paid upon how great they used to be, than Tito would still be loaded.


IMHO, its not about his wins/losses... its about his fighting style, his personality... its about him being popular... for whatever reason his fans choose to follow him.

Tito simply started losing fans... and I dont think that had to do with him losing matches.

Even in losses, Wandy retains fans... they appreciate him for what he does, win or lose.... 

...and thats what makes him a draw... because he comes to fight and as a fan I appreciate that


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

attention said:


> I totally disagree with that statement.
> IMHO, Wandy is 10x more popular than Sonnen.
> 
> Sonnen may get more publicity, but that doesnt make him more popular.
> ...


I would not say Wandy is 10x more popular. He might have 10 times more true fans but he doesn't sell fights like Sonnen does. 

Also, Japan and Brazil don't count when looking at PPV numbers... 

Why should Wandy get a share of PPV sales when he isn't that big of a sell to the crowd that buys the PPVs? In one of his most recent fights Wandy was in the main event against a good opponent on what ended up being the UFC's worst PPV sales event since the original TUF series. The rest of the card wasn't very good but it just goes to show you that Silva doesn't have the draw power himself.


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

420atalon said:


> I would not say Wandy is 10x more popular. He might have 10 times more true fans but he doesn't sell fights like Sonnen does.
> 
> Also, Japan and Brazil don't count when looking at PPV numbers...
> 
> Why should Wandy get a share of PPV sales when he isn't that big of a sell to the crowd that buys the PPVs? In one of his most recent fights Wandy was in the main event against a good opponent on what ended up being the UFC's worst PPV sales event since the original TUF series. The rest of the card wasn't very good but it just goes to show you that Silva doesn't have the draw power himself.


Sadly the numbers speak for themselves, true enuf.
BUT... that shouldnt stop him from _trying_ to get a piece of the pie 

Mind you, I think part of the cause of the low buy rate was due to it not being a title bout, crap cards, and saturation of ufc PPVs... as opposed to him soley not having draw power (cards dont have to all be stacked, but just enough to make it worth it).


Side note...
As a huge Wandy fan, I really dont want him to fight anymore 
And a fight vs Sonnen is insanity... he should not do this, it will be ugly... not 'ugly' devestatingly fun... but 'ugly' pathetically boring.
However, if he can get paid serious coinage, then by all mean... do what you gotta do


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...Bottom line. A top notch wrestler that can take you down at will, have decent striking and submit you is scary for anybody. The scariest thing to a Jiu Jitsu guy is a wrestler that can dominate all positions on the ground. Jon Jones took Chael's own wrestling game and force-fed it to him with a nasty finish. Chael can put any MW on their back...but...*I would LOVE to see Sonnen vs. Weidman II.
*It would be a great fight but Weidman wouldn't be champ if they ever were to meet again...Why? This one dude from Brazil will _get_ that belt back...


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

BrutalKO said:


> ...Bottom line. A top notch wrestler that can take you down at will, have decent striking and submit you is scary for anybody. The scariest thing to a Jiu Jitsu guy is a wrestler that can dominate all positions on the ground. Jon Jones took Chael's own wrestling game and force-fed it to him with a nasty finish. Chael can put any MW on their back...but...*I would LOVE to see Sonnen vs. Weidman II.
> *It would be a great fight but Weidman wouldn't be champ if they ever were to meet again...Why? This one dude from Brazil will _get_ that belt back...


There was never a Sonnen vs Weidman 1 bro what are you talking about?


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## attention (Oct 18, 2006)

BrutalKO said:


> ...Bottom line. A top notch wrestler that can take you down at will, have decent striking and submit you is scary for anybody. The scariest thing to a Jiu Jitsu guy is a wrestler that can dominate all positions on the ground. Jon Jones took Chael's own wrestling game and force-fed it to him with a nasty finish. Chael can put any MW on their back...but...*I would LOVE to see Sonnen vs. Weidman II.
> *It would be a great fight but Weidman wouldn't be champ if they ever were to meet again...Why? This one dude from Brazil will _get_ that belt back...


Sonnen vs. Weidman *II *(?)

they fought? who won?
:confused02:
(Sorry, I dont follow either...but I didnt know they even met)


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

Liddellianenko said:


> There was never a Sonnen vs Weidman 1 bro what are you talking about?


I thought they fought once already? Guess I made a mistake... well, human we are.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

Wanderlei is a lot like CD's. We all used to love them and have fond memories of how great they used to be, but the overwhelming majority of us have moved on and a small amount of people are still having a hard time letting go of the old days.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

BrutalKO said:


> I thought they fought once already? Guess I made a mistake... well, human we are.


“Happens to every guy sometimes this does” - Master Yoda



joshua7789 said:


> Wanderlei is a lot like CD's. We all used to love them and have fond memories of how great they used to be, but the overwhelming majority of us have moved on and a small amount of people are still having a hard time letting go of the old days.


I too have nostalgia. In fact I still listen to cds, dress in that fashion (k..maybe not anymore) and dream about the 90's, partying, lost love(s), more partying, drugs, and copious amount of drinking. Me thinks me need to go through one of those Eternal Sunshine therapy sessions.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

joshua7789 said:


> Wanderlei is a lot like CD's. We all used to love them and have fond memories of how great they used to be, but the overwhelming majority of us have moved on and a small amount of people are still having a hard time letting go of the old days.


Everyone knows Silva is not the same Silva from Pride but this is his most recent fight.











Wand can still bring it, guns blazing.


----------



## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

No_Mercy said:


> “Happens to every guy sometimes this does” - Master Yoda
> 
> 
> 
> I too have nostalgia. In fact I still listen to cds, dress in that fashion (k..maybe not anymore) and dream about the 90's, partying, lost love(s), more partying, drugs, and copious amount of drinking. Me thinks me need to go through one of those Eternal Sunshine therapy sessions.


I miss Hootie and Blowfish, you can call me a fool but <sniff> I only <sniff sniff> wanna be with ...._my childhood_


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

BOOM said:


> Wait you're using the "almost" argument in where Silva actually won the fight and pumping up Sonnen "I *almost* accomplished something in my career" in the same paragraph?
> 
> *Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.*


There literally wasn't one part of what you quoted that said that, the bolded part clearly means you are talking to yourself. I wouldn't be surprised if you sport a pete rose haircut and have more than a few goldfish that died because you fed them too much.


----------



## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

attention said:


> You might be able to sell me Sonnen being more popular that Wandy in the USA... but geezus... He is frikin HUGE in Japan and Brazil.. OH but whatever, those places dont count rite? :confused05:


Well ok, because that is exactly what I said.



> Maybe not world wide, but this is the UFC an American company


----------



## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

UFC_OWNS said:


> There literally wasn't one part of what you quoted that said that.


Actually it was exactly what you were implying,



UFC_OWNS said:


> *yes because get dropped and almost finished in a war with stann is as impressive as ragdolling stann when he had even more momentum and was ranked.* It's hilarious how you say how dumb sonnen fans are when you seem to have less chromosomes
> than the cast of jersey shore. Don't quit your day job whatever that is because making conversation and posting isn't forte.


Don't worry about it though, I'd be a little red in the face also if someone called me out for trying to downplay Silva to pump Sonnen's tires when in reality Wand knocked Stann the **** out by teeing off on his face.


----------



## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

After wandys last performance is it unrealistic to ask for a hefty paycheck.... most of us probably even he knows hes almost done fighting...


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

BOOM said:


> Actually it was exactly what you were implying,
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry about it though, I'd be a little red in the face also if someone called me out for trying to downplay Silva to pump Sonnen's tires when in reality Wand knocked Stann the **** out by teeing off on his face.


Lol you still have no idea what are you talking about, wand nearly was KTFO a few times in that fight. Sonnen crushed stann no contest and stann was on the rise back then.


----------



## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

_RIVAL_ said:


> After wandys last performance is it unrealistic to ask for a hefty paycheck.... most of us probably even he knows hes almost done fighting...


I thought his last fight was pretty good. He won plus it was entertaining as hell even voted as a top fight of 2013. Wandy's day as champion has pasted, but he still puts on entertaining fights. He has co or headlined every ufc even he has been apart of since returning.


----------



## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

Liddellianenko said:


> You can't just go by participation, that's not a fair comparison. Wanderlei participated in cards recently with the new division guys and no-names as headliners whereas Bisping participated in cards with rising PPV king Jones as the headliner.
> 
> If you compare what they headlined, and weren't bolstered by other big fighters, then Wanderlei's Franklin PPV with not much else but him and Franklin did much better than any of the UK cards that Bisping headlined with only him as the star power. Actually wait I think Bisping has actually only headlined one PPV ever and that was against Rashad who was a rising star and had some other great fights, other than that he's only ever headlined free cards. There's isn't much to compare with, Wanderlei has headlined plenty of PPVs both in the UFC and Pride but Bisping only has one.


Fully agree.

There is nothing solid to suggest one is a bigger draw than the other in 2013, anything said in favour of either would be speculation.


----------



## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

gazh said:


> Fully agree.
> 
> There is nothing solid to suggest one is a bigger draw than the other in 2013, anything said in favour of either would be speculation.


Indeed.


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

joshua7789 said:


> Wanderlei is a lot like CD's. We all used to love them and have fond memories of how great they used to be, but the overwhelming majority of us have moved on and a small amount of people are still having a hard time letting go of the old days.


Naaa.... more like:-


----------



## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

UFC_OWNS said:


> Lol you still have no idea what are you talking about, wand nearly was KTFO a few times in that fight. Sonnen crushed stann no contest and stann was on the rise back then.


Look at you still trying to down play the "Axe Murderer" because you can't handle the truth. Wand went into the fight like the warrior he always has been and put on the show that has made him one of the most beloved MMA fighters and legend of the sport. 

The fight ended with Wand bouncing Stann's face off the mat leaving Stann drooling liquid out of the side of his mouth like a toddler in need of a nipple. But Wand _almost_ got knocked out so that did'nt happen...


----------



## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

with such a chequered fight record as of late Wanderlei shouldn't be asking big bucks, if he could show he could hang with top 185/205 fighters then that is one thing, and I don't class Stann as top-of-the-pack material.

he got a 'W' great for him, leave on that and spend more time on your gym. 

205 is a *bad* place for Wanderlei.


----------



## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Wand is 4-5 in the UFC however he has amounted 5 Fights of the Night which includes 1 Fight of the Year and 2 Knockout's of the Night which includes 1 Knockout of the Year.

Sonnen's highlight reel is child's play compared to Wand and he's got the same kind of mediocre record Wand has of late. But somehow Wand is not deserving of some extra money yet Sonnen is...LOL

:confused03:




gazh said:


> Fully agree.
> 
> There is nothing solid to suggest one is a bigger draw than the other in 2013, anything said in favour of either would be speculation.



In all likelihood Wand is already selling this fight better than anyone with the video he released. Smart man, the UFC should be cutting Wand a fat paycheck right about now.


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Wandy has never beaten a top fighter.


----------



## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

BOOM said:


> Wand is 4-5 in the UFC however he has amounted 5 Fights of the Night which includes 1 Fight of the Year and 2 Knockout's of the Night which includes 1 Knockout of the Year.
> 
> Sonnen's highlight reel is child's play compared to Wand and he's got the same kind of mediocre record Wand has of late. But somehow Wand is not deserving of some extra money yet Sonnen is...LOL
> 
> ...


No he's not, no one wants to watch wand get humiliated worse than shogun and stann did. And you comparing sonnen and wand's UFC records is laughable seeing how wand lost to someone who should be retired in rich franklin, chris leben the zombie in 36 seconds, he was bumpage jackson's last finish in the UFC which says something and I could go on.

Meanwhile chael still has more wins than wand in the UFC, better quality wins but losing to the 1 and 2 pound for pound fighters is so bad that it brings chael''s stock down right? Oh and after he is dominated I guess we'll still see fools like you say DURR HE STILL DESERVED THE MONEY AND HE STILL IZ BTTER.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Soojooko said:


> Wandy has never beaten a top fighter.





UFC_OWNS said:


> No he's not, no one wants to watch wand get humiliated worse than shogun and stann did. And you comparing sonnen and wand's UFC records is laughable seeing how wand lost to someone who should be retired in rich franklin, chris leben the zombie in 36 seconds, he was bumpage jackson's last finish in the UFC which says something and I could go on.
> 
> Meanwhile chael still has more wins than wand in the UFC, better quality wins but losing to the 1 and 2 pound for pound fighters is so bad that it brings chael''s stock down right? Oh and after he is dominated I guess we'll still see fools like you say DURR HE STILL DESERVED THE MONEY AND HE STILL IZ BTTER.


The irony is strong.

:bored04:


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

BOOM said:


> The irony is strong.
> 
> :bored04:


You made the rules breh, not me.


----------



## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> Wandy has never beaten a top fighter.


....in the ufc lately? you mean?:confused02:

I don’t think any fan of the sport Wandy has given his life to should begrudge him one penny.
But that silly video looks even sillier in the current context. Wandy has agreed to fight for X until he found out it was Sonnen, now he wants XX. That should say something to the rabid wandyfans about the man he may face. 

until he agrees to fight he really shouldn’t talk about Chael awakening his warrior. That was awful. Maybe Chael can give him some pointers.


----------



## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

I think it's great that Wand has turned the table on the UFC and Sonnen, after all it's the UFC and Sonnen's mouth who want this fight on a PPV event so they can cash in, of course Wand wants the fight as well and he's not afraid of anyone unless you just started watching MMA last year. Wand's much to smart to be duped, he's been around longer than almost anyone in the game and knows a scam when he sees one.

The problem really boils down to the UFC not wanting to pay the Axe Murderer to KO Sonnen on a PPV event in where the UFC and Sonnen will be making more money than Wand as it stands and Wand realizes how fraudulent and cheap they're being.

Maybe Dana should just let Sonnen fight himself in the mirror or maybe even a top LHW one day instead of calling out well past their prime fighters who coincidentally have just as good of a record as Sonnen does in the UFC but with much more spectacular finishes, fights, KO's and historical MMA accomplishments on their resumes.


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Lol...

Wand doesn't want this fight. The only reason he "wants" this fight is because it is the highest profile match he will likely get and that gives him a little leverage in trying to get paid more. 

If Wand wanted to fight Sonnen he would have already signed the deal. He isn't in a position to be asking for more money(he has a contract already in place) and what he is doing here by doing so is somewhat slimey/pathetic and proof that he is only interested in this fight for monetary reasons. His recent rant was only to try and create interest so the UFC might be willing to pay him more and nothing more.

The UFC is doing what they should be doing, telling Wandy too bad you have a contract already and we aren't going to pay you more to fight. If you don't want to fight then retire. UFC would be stupid to pay Wandy a PPV percentage when he will not be contributing much if any to the PPV sales.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

:laugh:

It's amazing the effort some people put into talking about fighters they don't like.


----------



## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

420atalon said:


> Lol...
> 
> Wand doesn't want this fight. The only reason he "wants" this fight is because it is the highest profile match he will likely get and that gives him a little leverage in trying to get paid more.
> 
> ...


While he's not the same fighter Wand is still a huge name in MMA world wide and would be contributing to the PPV just by being part of the PPV event he would be co-headlining in. The UFC are being biased tightwads and want to make more money using Wand's star power so they can profit more heavily. People are being brainwashed by Dana's and Sonnen's lies which isn't something new.

Good on Wand for calling them out on their steaming pile of cow dung for what it is. Someone needed to do it.




Soojooko said:


> It's amazing the effort some people put into talking about fighters they don't like.


I know it's just crazy, I even like Sonnen myself which I've stated in another discussion that went on for about a week or so very recently. Unfortunately I just don't think he's anywhere near as special in the overall picture as he's made out to be by many others.


----------



## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

BOOM said:


> I know it's just crazy, I even like Sonnen myself which I've stated in another discussion that went on for about a week or so very recently. Unfortunately I just don't think he's anywhere near as special in the overall picture as he's made out to be by many others.


Granted. However, he's nowhere near as average as you've made him out to be either.


----------



## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Soojooko said:


> Granted. However, he's nowhere near as average as you've made him out to be either.


In your opinion, not mine.


----------



## zarny (Mar 4, 2007)

Misleading title. It's about money.

GSP is the UFC's top PPV draw.

That's why Sonnen wants to be on the card and why Silva wants ppv points. It might not be the biggest fight of either fighter's career but it would be their biggest payday.

Win or lose this could be the last fight of Silva's career in the UFC. And Sonnen's clock is ticking too. I don't blame either for wanting to maximize their earnings.

The problem for Silva is DW has called his bluff. I expect they'll figure it out. Whether that means fewer ppv points or Silva caves completely I don't know but I expect the fight will get signed.


----------



## zarny (Mar 4, 2007)

BOOM said:


> While he's not the same fighter Wand is still a huge name in MMA world wide and would be contributing to the PPV just by being part of the PPV event he would be co-headlining in. The UFC are being biased tightwads and want to make more money using Wand's star power so they can profit more heavily. People are being brainwashed by Dana's and Sonnen's lies which isn't something new.
> 
> Good on Wand for calling them out on their steaming pile of cow dung for what it is. Someone needed to do it.



Wand might be a huge name in mma but GSP is the biggest. No fighter sells more PPV's than George.

UFC 167 will do 800,000 buys with or without Silva v Sonnen. How many hardcore Wanderlei Silva fans do you think there are that weren't going to buy a GSP ppv but changed their mind because Wand was added? The number might actually be 0. 






BOOM said:


> I know it's just crazy, I even like Sonnen myself which I've stated in another discussion that went on for about a week or so very recently. Unfortunately I just don't think he's anywhere near as special in the overall picture as he's made out to be by many others.



Define special. He's come up short against two phenoms but also made short work of some very good fighters like Shogun. As a fighter Sonnen isn't the best but right now he's one of them.

And he's one of a select few fighters that can bump UFC ppv's above their 400,000ish average. 

I guarantee if you ask Dana White that is special.


----------



## evilappendix (Jan 4, 2007)

Wand has earned his dues ten fold in MMA. Toss the old pit bull a bone before he retires. Chael wants Wand because that's enormous name recognition for him if he wins and it will be a good draw. Chael knows this, Dana knows this, and mutherf*cking WANDERLEIIIII SIIIIILVAAAAA knows this. They wouldn't be pursuing this fight if not.


----------



## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Wandy is more popular than Sonnen and it isn't close. Sonnen fans like to pretend he is some big draw because he does bad ripoffs of Superstar Billy Graham promos but in reality people don't actually care about seeing him that much.


----------



## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

zarny said:


> Wand might be a huge name in mma but GSP is the biggest. No fighter sells more PPV's than George.
> 
> UFC 167 will do 800,000 buys with or without Silva v Sonnen. How many hardcore Wanderlei Silva fans do you think there are that weren't going to buy a GSP ppv but changed their mind because Wand was added? The number might actually be 0.
> 
> ...



Well yeah, of course a fighter pulling in numbers or huge money is special if they are lining the pockets of Dana and the UFC, they're in the business of making money. But that's not the same thing as a fighter being a special fighter because that's something Sonnen isn't, not even close in fact.




evilappendix said:


> Wand has earned his dues ten fold in MMA. Toss the old pit bull a bone before he retires. Chael wants Wand because that's enormous name recognition for him if he wins and it will be a good draw. Chael knows this, Dana knows this, and mutherf*cking WANDERLEIIIII SIIIIILVAAAAA knows this. They wouldn't be pursuing this fight if not.





osmium said:


> Wandy is more popular than Sonnen and it isn't close. Sonnen fans like to pretend he is some big draw because he does bad ripoffs of Superstar Billy Graham promos but in reality people don't actually care about seeing him that much.


Good to see there's some very aware users posting on this forum chiming in on this. I was beginning to get a bit worried.


----------



## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

Wandy has done 100x more for MMA then Sonnen. He has the right to make a demand every now and again. Nowhere near as many people give a shit about Sonnen as his fans think. The Sonnen/Spider fights were easy to promote because Chael never shuts the **** up, and spent probably as much time thinking of witty shit to say on camera as he did training for the fights. Anderson doesn't talk shit so Chael got all the attention with his daily rants. Sonnen/Jones was another title fight Chael did a good job of promoting, then got his shit pushed in worse than Silva/Sonnen 2.


----------



## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Rygu said:


> Wandy has done 100x more for MMA then Sonnen. He has the right to make a demand every now and again. Nowhere near as many people give a shit about Sonnen as his fans think. The Sonnen/Spider fights were easy to promote because Chael never shuts the **** up, and spent probably as much time thinking of witty shit to say on camera as he did training for the fights. Anderson doesn't talk shit so Chael got all the attention with his daily rants. Sonnen/Jones was another title fight Chael did a good job of promoting, then got his shit pushed in worse than Silva/Sonnen 2.



And the winner is.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

I love how the Wand fans resort to the 'Our guy could beat up your guy, and our guy is more popular, and that's just how it is!' mentality that they accuse Sonnen fans of having, and then fail to see the irony in that.

Big Wand fan here. And a big Sonnen fan. Yes, it is possible. I just want to see these two fight. They're both future hall of famers. They're both world class, be it past or present. And they've both given a great deal to MMA. The rest of you can pretend that your lives are worth so much that you can discredit those whom have actually made names for themselves. I suppose that's what the internet is for. I'll just sit here and wait for Dana and company to make this fight happen. Because they will.


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Why the hell would Chael Sonnen be inducted to the hall of fame? :confused02:

On the topic, i agree Wand is 100x more important to MMA than Sonnen is,
so yeah, why would Sonnen get ppv points and Wand no?
Open your pocket Dana!!!!


----------



## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

AmdM said:


> Why the hell would Chael Sonnen be inducted to the hall of fame? :confused02:


I see no reason why he would, he has never held a title. I guess if bringing a WWE style pre-fight trash talking habit and making people giggle on youtube is HoF worthy


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

The short story is Wanderlei will not make the UFC more money by being on this card if they have to give him the PPV credits like he wants. Wanderlei just isn't a big enough PPV seller and if he is asking for PPV credits then he is asking for a substantial amount of extra money that is going to be earned off of GSP's and other fighters backs. Giving Wanderlei PPV credits is like throwing money away, not a good business plan even if you are a successful company. 

Wanderlei has played an important part in MMA's history but realistically hasn't done that much for the UFC and even at that the man has been paid very well. Wanderlei has made 200k base salary in all but his first 2 fights(150k), he has also earned multiple fight night awards, received unpublished extras from the UFC(most fighters do from what we have seen/heard)and has made sponsorship money as well. The guy has been treated more then fairly and for him to demand more money to fight is petty when he himself is the one that signed the contract he has. 

I wouldn't be surprised if this fight does eventually get signed. The UFC is likely willing to pay Wandy a little bit more(since they would make money off their Brazil tv deals etc) but it is unlikely they would be willing to give him a cut of the PPV credits. The only reason this fight might not happen is because Wandy is greedy/scared of Sonnen.

And for those saying the UFC needs to throw Silva a bone. The guy has already earned 2.3 mil from the UFC in just basic salary and bonuses... Hardly chump change.


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

AmdM said:


> Why the hell would Chael Sonnen be inducted to the hall of fame? :confused02:
> 
> On the topic, i agree Wand is 100x more important to MMA than Sonnen is,
> so yeah, why would Sonnen get ppv points and Wand no?
> Open your pocket Dana!!!!


If that's the one thing you took from my post, then my point is pretty much made.


----------



## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

AmdM said:


> Why the hell would Chael Sonnen be inducted to the hall of fame?


He will, as a commentator.


----------



## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

AmdM said:


> Why the hell would Chael Sonnen be inducted to the hall of fame? :confused02:
> 
> On the topic, i agree Wand is 100x more important to MMA than Sonnen is,
> so yeah, why would Sonnen get ppv points and Wand no?
> Open your pocket Dana!!!!


Would you call him one of the 10 greatest MW's of all time?

They'll likely induct him with Brock, Florian and Koscheck to really piss off the interweb


----------



## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Rygu said:


> I see no reason why he would, he has never held a title. I guess if bringing a WWE style pre-fight trash talking habit and making people giggle on youtube is HoF worthy


Im good with that


----------



## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

Canadian Psycho said:


> If that's the one thing you took from my post, then my point is pretty much made.


Sorry CP, all the points you've tried to make were blown away by that idiotic piece. No one can take you seriously when you say something as ridiculous as that.



John8204 said:


> Would you call him one of the 10 greatest MW's of all time?
> 
> They'll likely induct him with Brock, Florian and Koscheck to really piss off the interweb


Oh please, let's not even begin to imagine such a freak show!!! O_O


----------



## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

GDPofDRB said:


> Terrible business by the UFC and White here as expected. Shit on the legacy of one of the greatest, most poular and most exciting, even today, fighter in the short history of this sport because the richest figures in MMA today, the tortila bros and white, are too ******* greedy. Another test for if you are or ever were a fan or just a simple wave riding shill. How anyone can back White on this shit unless he is paying them is something I don't get, and I'm very thankful for that.


Wait, I'm confused. Wanderlie has been calling out Chael for quite some time. How is it Dana's fault that Sonnen finally called his bluff? :confused02:

Wanderlie has a contract that he's agreed to, and now is refusing to fight under it why, exactly? Because he wants now to renegotiate before entering into the fight he's been provoking? 

Something's missing here. How do you call out a guy, and then when he accepts, say no, not with my current contract? The fact is, Wanderlie needs to take this fight and not hide behind money. I don't think a loss to Chael is going to damage his legacy.

Plus from a business perspective, is it a good idea for a promotion to renegotiate with fighters under contract when they are offered fights—especially fights they ask for??

I have no problem with Wanderlie asking, but demanding and refusing to fight? Ultimately, Wanderlie needs to back up his talk. He knew what his contract was when he started asking for the fight. Now fight. What the heck is all this nonsense going on about who's more popular? Who gives a rip? He had a contract. He asked for a fight. It was accepted. Duh! Now you fight.


----------



## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Calminian said:


> Wait, I'm confused. Wanderlie has been calling out Chael for quite some time. How is it Dana's fault that Sonnen finally called his bluff? :confused02:


Everything is Dana's fault for running the UFC like a business instead of a charity foundation...

Some people on here just don't understand business obviously.


----------



## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

420atalon said:


> Everything is Dana's fault for running the UFC like a business instead of a charity foundation...
> 
> Some people on here just don't understand business obviously.


Funny I would argue that what he's doing is terrible for business and that he's running the UFC like a charity. And that he's running out/retiring main eventers (people who you want to see fight) and he's offering charity to smaller fighters and divisions who don't draw.


----------



## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

420atalon said:


> Everything is Dana's fault for running the UFC like a business instead of a charity foundation...
> 
> Some people on here just don't understand business obviously.


Oy, that's for sure.


----------



## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

John8204 said:


> Funny I would argue that what he's doing is terrible for business and that he's running the UFC like a charity. And that he's running out/retiring main eventers (people who you want to see fight) and he's offering charity to smaller fighters and divisions who don't draw.


Okay, so let me get this straight. If a fighter enters a contract and asks for a fight, and then gets it, and then demands to renegotiate his contract—if the promotion doesn't allow him to do this they are forcing fighters to retire? Is that really how people think about this? 

I must be losing my mind over the logic of this. Look, Wandy was (is) a great fighter. But one of the reasons he was great was his willingness to fight. How does he now ask for a fight and refuse based on his agreed contract? Makes no sense. Maybe the lesson here is be careful what you ask for.


----------



## lights out 24 (Jul 23, 2012)

Is Chael getting a ppv cut? If so I think Wand is entitled to renegotiate.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

AmdM said:


> Sorry CP, all the points you've tried to make were blown away by that idiotic piece. No one can take you seriously when you say something as ridiculous as that


:bored04:


----------



## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

lights out 24 said:


> Is Chael getting a ppv cut? If so I think Wand is entitled to renegotiate.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


So negotiate. But ultimately, he asked for the fight knowing what his current contract was. How are you going to live down asking for a fight then backing out because you just realized you wanted more money?


----------



## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Calminian said:


> Okay, so let me get this straight. If a fighter enters a contract and asks for a fight, and then gets it, and then demands to renegotiate his contract—if the promotion doesn't allow him to do this they are forcing fighters to retire? Is that really how people think about this?
> 
> I must be losing my mind over the logic of this. Look, Wandy was (is) a great fighter. But one of the reasons he was great was his willingness to fight. How does he now ask for a fight and refuse based on his agreed contract? Makes no sense. Maybe the lesson here is be careful what you ask for.


The UFC isn't forcing Wanderlei to retire, but they have retired a massive amount of main eventers over the past few years. These retiring's seemed to coincide with the WEC purchase. So they are expanding their field of fighters but they are taking away the money they got from the people who actually fought on the UFC main events and draw people into the sport. It's been a few years and in doing so I think it's safe to say that business has taken a downturn.

Now moving onto the contract issue. The UFC has two contracts for a fighter, their exclusive rights and their fights. The UFC cannot just tell a fighter okay your fighting Joe Jablowme in Russia tomorrow, doesn't work that way. Every fight the UFC has to come to terms with the fighter. Now the UFC does quite a bit with contracts, I'd say 90% of them aren't honored because most get cut when they are under contract.

It seems to me Wanderlei is accepting this fight, he's just not accepting that card. *Now the reason for this...seems to me is based on Wanderlei's contract which is unusual in the sense the UFC doesn't pay Wanderlei to win fights.* The only incentives Wanderlei has is to earn bonuses because his contract is just 200K which is fine when he's fighting Chris Leben or Cung Le but I don't think is fine when he's asked to carry a card on his own like he has in the past.

I don't think it's to much to ask for a guy who has already given the UFC a great deal on his contract to ask for some sort of win bonus for what could be his last biggest fight of his career.


----------



## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

John8204 said:


> ...I don't think it's to much to ask for a guy who has already given the UFC a great deal on his contract to ask for some sort of win bonus for what could be his last biggest fight of his career.


What is this stuff about "given to the UFC" about? The UFC pays for the services of fighters. Wandy didn't just donate his services. He was paid! now you're saying the UFC owes him more for trying to make a fight he asked for? This fight wasn't even the UFC's idea! This was Wandy calling someone out and them accepting. How are they now indebted to him?


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

Which "main eventers" has the UFC retired?

All I can think of is a handful of older washed up bums that I don't even want to watch fight anymore. 

I am actually on a totally different page then you John. I think the UFC has a lot more dead weight they need to get rid of but unfortunately it doesn't look like there is enough good young talent bursting at the door to allow this to happen.

To me the UFC slowing down and somewhat losing popularity is because in a lot of ways it has become stagnant. We keep watching a lot of the same fighters keep fighting each other to the point where most top fighters in a lot of the divisions have already faced each other at least once. 

The UFC needs new blood imo not old blood. Maybe I am in my own little minority but I don't really enjoy watching a lot of the old guards fight anymore.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

And here's another thing wandy should be happy to just get the fight especially if he claims to wann abeat up chael so much, guess what wand you aren't the only one in the sonnen line. Rogerio,machida,belfort,davis all want a piece of chael and there stock is much higher than yours.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

John8204 said:


> I don't think it's to much to ask for a guy who has already given the UFC a great deal on his contract to ask for some sort of win bonus for what could be his last biggest fight of his career.


There is no problem with asking for a little extra. The problem is Wanderlei is asking for a lot extra. Asking for a cut of the PPV credits means he is likely asking for 1 mil+ as PPV credits earn fighters far more then there regular salaries. 

If Wanderlei was only asking for an extra 50-100k(still lots of money) then the UFC would probably work out a deal. I am pretty sure he is asking for a lot more then that though.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

420atalon said:


> There is no problem with asking for a little extra. The problem is Wanderlei is asking for a lot extra. Asking for a cut of the PPV credits means he is likely asking for 1 mil+ as PPV credits earn fighters far more then there regular salaries.
> 
> If Wanderlei was only asking for an extra 50-100k(still lots of money) then the UFC would probably work out a deal. I am pretty sure he is asking for a lot more then that though.


Which looks like a clever way to duck a fight— fight he's been relishing supposedly.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Calminian said:


> What is this stuff about "given to the UFC" about? The UFC pays for the services of fighters. Wandy didn't just donate his services. He was paid! now you're saying the UFC owes him more for trying to make a fight he asked for? This fight wasn't even the UFC's idea! This was Wandy calling someone out and them accepting. How are they now indebted to him?


The UFC is indebted to all of it's fighters because they are the ones going out and competing for the sport. The UFC has a promotions contract not a league contract they don't pay a percentage of the revenue to the fighters. Also yeah the UFC owes Wanderlei a lot, remember this was the guy that was showing up at UFC events promoting cross-promotion fights. He's done a lot for the UFC he's had 8 bonuses in his latest tenure he's a fighter that fights and frankly I feel like he deserves respect. Also is the UFC promoting this fight or Wanderlei and Chael? If these guys are promoting the fight and they are actually fighting all the UFC is doing is using their brand.




420atalon said:


> Which "main eventers" has the UFC retired?
> 
> All I can think of is a handful of older washed up bums that I don't even want to watch fight anymore.
> 
> ...


The UFC does a shitty job building stars, especially when their star building operation (TUF) is treated with so much contempt nowadays, this is once again bad business by the UFC. Now let's look at the main eventers from the year before the WEC was absorbed and let's count the retirements/cuts.

Rampage (1)
Machida
Marquardt (2)
Okami
Lesnar (3)
Velasquez
Bisping 
Akiyama
Mir
Cro-Cop (4)
Palhares
Edgar
Penn (5)
Sonnen
Matyshenko (6)
Carwin (7)
Hamill (8)
Jardine (9)
Liddell (10)
Franklin
Evans
Shogun
Silva
Maia
Florian (11)
Gomi
GSP
Hardy
Vera (12)
Jones
Big Nog
Couture (13)
Coleman (14)
Maynard
Diaz
T. Silva

So 14 out of 36 fighters who main evented in 2010 the UFC either retired or cut. That's 38% turnover in 3 years when the sport was growing. 9 more of those guys may be on their last fight or last year in MMA so that number could hit 63% pre-expansion. So if you're losing about 20% of your draw fighters a year how exactly will new blood become draws. 




420atalon said:


> There is no problem with asking for a little extra. The problem is Wanderlei is asking for a lot extra. Asking for a cut of the PPV credits means he is likely asking for 1 mil+ as PPV credits earn fighters far more then there regular salaries.
> 
> If Wanderlei was only asking for an extra 50-100k(still lots of money) then the UFC would probably work out a deal. I am pretty sure he is asking for a lot more then that though.


And if the card does a million buys he's asking for less than 1/50th of the revenue.


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## Sportsman 2.0 (Jul 10, 2012)

Have to wait to the end of this opera. I only heard DW implying Wand would probably retire for the money he was asking. I did not see so far Wand affirming he would never fight at current terms. 

Wand just wants a little extra and I think he really deserves a little more, but LOL at anybody considering Wand, a guy who, among other wars, stepped up against heavier dudes in Mark Hunt and Crocop back in the day is somehow ducking Sonnen. Wand is not ducking no one. Specially Sonnen. Just remember little time ago it was Sonnen stating "the time to fight Wand has passed".

And LOL @ anyone believing Sonnen should/could make HOF. Wand has legitimate GOLD past. Sonnen wore a fake belt at best.


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## lights out 24 (Jul 23, 2012)

Exactly!


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

MMA-Sportsman said:


> Have to wait to the end of this opera. I only heard DW implying Wand would probably retire for the money he was asking. I did not see so far Wand affirming he would never fight at current terms.
> 
> Wand just wants a little extra and I think he really deserves a little more, but LOL at anybody considering Wand, a guy who, among other wars, stepped up against heavier dudes in Mark Hunt and Crocop back in the day is somehow ducking Sonnen. Wand is not ducking no one. Specially Sonnen. Just remember little time ago it was Sonnen stating "the time to fight Wand has passed".
> 
> And LOL @ anyone believing Sonnen should/could make HOF. Wand has legitimate GOLD past. Sonnen wore a fake belt at best.


There was a time when Wand stated he did not want to face Stann because he was a military man, then everyone berated him. Look what happened recently. Few fighters are truly fighters...as in they will fight to hurt you bare knuckles. Wand is one of em. Look at his vale tudo days. 

This will be a great show for everybody! :thumb01:

Can't wait!


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

John8204 said:


> The UFC does a shitty job building stars, especially when their star building operation (TUF) is treated with so much contempt nowadays, this is once again bad business by the UFC. Now let's look at the main eventers from the year before the WEC was absorbed and let's count the retirements/cuts.
> 
> Rampage (1)
> Machida
> ...


Almost all of those fighters retired and most of them needed to. 

Of the fighters that haven't retired Penn and Vera are still in the organization and Vera fights next weekend. Hammill has also come back out of retirement and is still in the organization.

The only ones actually somewhat forced out were Rampage(for being a royal pain and not worth salary), Marquardt(now back in the organization after earning his dismissal), Matyushenko and Jardine(not UFC material anymore). 

The only problem like I mentioned before is that there hasn't been enough new blood to fill in for all the older fighters. Most of those older fighters shouldn't have even still been fighting and the only reason they were is because MMA is/was still in its infancy and the UFC needed fighters and the fighters needed the money.

There are still a lot of guys that should retire or at least need to start being gate keepers instead of main eventers. 

Shogun
Wanderlei
Big Nog
Struve
Franklin
Belcher
Hendo
Mir
Penn
Vera

And I am sure there are others. Yes some of these guys can still put on a half decent fight but unless they are going to act as gatekeepers against young talent I have no interest in watching them. Unfortunately these guys mainly just keep getting pitted against each other and other top fighters which imo leads to boring matches that I have no interest in watching.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

BJ "retired" he might come back at LW, but Dana wants him gone and he doesn't have a fight.

Vera was cut and fired after the Silva fight but when Silva pissed hot he was "rehired" if he loses to Rothwell he may very well get cut again.

They brought back Marquardt and Hamill but they still got rid of them.

The point is if you the company treat your main eventers as disposable so will the fans.

You say you have no interest watching them fight...okay but it isn't about you it's about the sport and business. The UFC tried to insert a bunch of new faces and the sport's been suffering.

You want new stars well if the business is good they should come along, but now business isn't so good...so the UFC is dumping 100 fighters this year.. Fighters aren't going to come along and develop when decimate the divisions.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

John8204 said:


> The UFC is indebted to all of it's fighters because they are the ones going out and competing for the sport. ....


So then contracts and agreements are all meaningless? Try this kind of thinking in the real world. Buy a tool or gadget from a store, and then gage your reaction when they contact you months later and as ask for additional money since their workers put so much of their lives into making that product. Certainly they deserve just a little extra, don't they? 

Wanderlie has had a very good life. Without fight promotions like Pride and the UFC he'd be in his backyard like Kimbo. He's done nothing for charity. He fights for money, and gets paid very generously. He currently has a very generous contract with the UFC. He's got nice clothes and a very nice place to live. He's living the dream and doesn't need anyone's pity. 

Then he opened his mouth and asked to fight Sonnen. It was his idea, not the UFC's. The UFC decided to make it happen, and Wanderlie backed out as if somehow he's now a victim being underpaid in a sweatshop. Give me a break. If you ask for a fight and get it, then be a man and fight.


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

John8204 said:


> ...The point is if you the company treat your main eventers as disposable so will the fans.....


Great philosophy. So let's just say no to all the new talent moving up, and keep the old guard in the UFC. Let's bring back Ken Shamrock. He still has the fire in the belly! And how about the Predator? Who needs all this new talent. We can't just leave these old guys that still want to fight out in the cold. And pay them top dollar as well, for look at all the sacrifices they've made. It's just not fair.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Calminian said:


> If you ask for a fight and get it, then be a man and fight.


Is some people could comprehend this sentence there would be about 50,000 fewer words posted on this forum write now,


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

John8204 said:


> BJ "retired" he might come back at LW, but Dana wants him gone and he doesn't have a fight.
> 
> Vera was cut and fired after the Silva fight but when Silva pissed hot he was "rehired" if he loses to Rothwell he may very well get cut again.
> 
> ...


I disagree. I think the UFC has been declining in popularity for quite a while now not since these fairly recent retirements you are mentioning. Also most of those fighters are/were at stages that they shouldn't be main eventers any more...

Imo the UFC grew stagnant to a lot of casual fans so they found other forms of entertainment. I think the UFC did more damage by sticking to a lot of the old faces then they would have by throwing some of the new faces into the mix right away. 

Also it is hard to really say the sport is suffering. Suffering compared to what? It is definitely far ahead of where it was half a dozen years ago. It might not be at its peak level but even that is kind of hard to determine with all the tv deals(all around the world), multiple TUF shows, increased number of events etc. 

I think the UFC is actually doing a good job of expanding the divisions(something that had to be done in order to increase fight quantities) as well as expanding globally.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Calminian said:


> So then contracts and agreements are all meaningless? Try this kind of thinking in the real world.


What people here talk about in this thread is actually happening in the real world. It's just a completely different type of contract than in your "buying something in a store" example. Silva has a contract according to which he has to fight a number of X fights in the UFC and gets an amount of Y Dollars for it (if he doesn't retire), BUT he can turn down the fights the UFC is offers him. He does NOT have a contract according to which he has to fight Sonnen on a specific date for a specific amount of money. As his contract allows him to turn down fights it leaves space for negotiation for monetary incentives to not turn down a fight that could make the UFC more money than other possible fights. So Silva asking for more money is absolutely within the legal terms of his contract and reasonable from his business perspective. If it weren't he would talk now with UFC lawyers before court and not with White/Joe Silva in comfy sofas. Now it's up to the UFC to show how bad they want that fight to happen.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Voiceless said:


> What people here talk about in this thread is actually happening in the real world. It's just a completely different type of contract than in your "buying something in a store" example. Silva has a contract according to which he has to fight a number of X fights in the UFC and gets an amount of Y Dollars for it (if he doesn't retire), BUT he can turn down the fights the UFC is offers him. He does NOT have a contract according to which he has to fight Sonnen on a specific date for a specific amount of money. As his contract allows him to turn down fights it leaves space for negotiation for monetary incentives to not turn down a fight that could make the UFC more money than other possible fights. So Silva asking for more money is absolutely within the legal terms of his contract and reasonable from his business perspective. If it weren't he would talk now with UFC lawyers before court and not with White/Joe Silva in comfy sofas. Now it's up to the UFC to show how bad they want that fight to happen.



This crucial little tid bit of info has been very hard for the simpletons to understand as of late.


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## lights out 24 (Jul 23, 2012)

That's been my point. It's not unethical. He's just using good business sense.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Calminian said:


> Great philosophy. So let's just say no to all the new talent moving up, and keep the old guard in the UFC. Let's bring back Ken Shamrock. He still has the fire in the belly! And how about the Predator? Who needs all this new talent. We can't just leave these old guys that still want to fight out in the cold. And pay them top dollar as well, for look at all the sacrifices they've made. It's just not fair.


UFc Fight Night 6.5, Ken Shamrock's last fight drew 4 times as many viewers as Sonnen/Shogun. And Ken Shamrock was your idea of a joke.

Their is also a very big difference between having a 5-10 percent turnover from main eventers to a 20 percent turnover


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

John8204 said:


> UFc Fight Night 6.5, Ken Shamrock's last fight drew 4 times as many viewers as Sonnen/Shogun. And Ken Shamrock was your idea of a joke.
> 
> Their is also a very big difference between having a 5-10 percent turnover from main eventers to a 20 percent turnover


I'm just thankful you don't run the UFC. And no I'm a Ken fan, but don't want the current Ken fighting in the UFC. Same with Liddell same with Lesner, etc. Can't help but think if you were running things we'd have some deaths in the octagon.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

John8204 said:


> UFc Fight Night 6.5, Ken Shamrock's last fight drew 4 times as many viewers as Sonnen/Shogun. And Ken Shamrock was your idea of a joke.
> 
> Their is also a very big difference between having a 5-10 percent turnover from main eventers to a 20 percent turnover


I wouldn't sweat it, there's a lot of uneducated fans that just don't understated that fighters with a history which have actually done something in said history (unlike some other fakes) who are the fighters who really draw the big numbers.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Calminian said:


> I'm just thankful you don't run the UFC. And no I'm a Ken fan, but don't want the current Ken fighting in the UFC. Same with Liddell same with Lesner, etc. Can't help but think if you were running things we'd have some deaths in the octagon.


Yup you've uncovered my plan to kill UFC fighters. That's exactly what I've been saying, because cutting 5 percent of the main-eventers is equal to murder. You are continuing to argue is a reasonable and logical fashion.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

John8204 said:


> Yup you've uncovered my plan to kill UFC fighters. That's exactly what I've been saying, because cutting 5 percent of the main-eventers is equal to murder. You are continuing to argue is a reasonable and logical fashion.


What he was saying is that a lot of those guys weren't fit to keep fighting and it is the truth. Still a couple guys like Struve that need to give it up before the cause even more permanent damage to their bodies.


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