# greg jackson: eye injury significant



## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6460219

Greg jackson talking about GSP's performance and eye injury.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Hopefully this will silence some of the critics re: GSP's unusually poor performance. I knew it was bothering him, because he was raising the issue with his cornermen throughout the fight. Here's hoping it's not an Alan Belcher like eye injury, as that'd keep St. Pierre on the shelf for some time. Though some might see that as a blessing for the WW division, I tend to be a bit of a humanitarian with these lads. Speedy recovery, and respect to GSP for continuing to fight as best he could with one eye.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

good interview, I noticed, like many others I am sure, that GSPs game severly went down after that eye injury. I enjoyed the first 2-3 rounds and noticed GSP being very aggressive with that over hand right. I believe he would be able to finish Shields if the eye injury didn't come, he was able to stun Shields 3-4 times in 2-3 rounds, which is fairly good.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Haven't watched the interview but I thought during the fight that his eye injury may be quite serious, fighters can put up with sweeling around the eye or even a broken orbital, but a puncture or scratch to the actual eye ball is a completely different ball game.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

He was consistently pawing at his eye the final few rounds, trying to clear it out. Something was obviously wrong. I tried reasoning with people last night, as it was obvious his game went to utter shite towards the end, and this would explain a lot of that. That said, he still has some mental holes, because his eye was fine when he had that opening on Jake. The injury doesn't excuse his safe style, but it does forgive the final few rounds in which he started getting busted up. The fact that he still sought to move, stay active, and fight back against an attacking Jake is commendable.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

lol

Koscheck has an orbital broken, he's a bum. GSP gets his eye scratched, not his fault for bad performance. Love it.


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## Spec0688 (Sep 9, 2007)

I don't remember a single person calling Koscheck a bum afterwards, people were just saying he was out classed. I mean, how can you call someone a bum when Vera simply quit when he had his orbital bone broken. 

Way to put words into peoples mouth.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> I don't remember a single person calling Koscheck a bum afterwards, people were just saying he was out classed. I mean, how can you call someone a bum when Vera simply quit when he had his orbital bone broken.
> 
> Way to put words into peoples mouth.


I recommend you look back after the fight ended. Koscheck got plenty more insults than he deserved and very few people appreciated the fact he fought 5 rounds with a broken orbital.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

AlphaDawg said:


> lol
> 
> Koscheck has an orbital broken, he's a bum. GSP gets his eye scratched, not his fault for bad performance. Love it.


Make things up much? I know, I know... whatever suits your point, right? :sarcastic12:

No one called Josh a bum. They questioned his game plan and said he was outclassed, but no one called him a bum. And rather than tell everyone else to look back, prove your own point and dig up some quotes.


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## skinnyBIGGS (Jul 2, 2010)

Please he was fighting just like his last 2 fights . Im tired of this debate on his injury being the motive for his lackluster finish. You guys are soo forgetful its sickening remember his last fight???? Kos eye was 10X worse and he was still going after it. People need to wake up and realize GSP is only holding that belt because of grease and is only holding it now because of POINTS SCORING. He is not on any level close to Silva and if that fight ever does happen. You will see what happens when a legite P4P champ Vs GSP. Ugh im soo disgusted in this fight and all the nuthuggers defending there champs SNOOZE fest fight. 

This fight was faught with the same fashion of his last 3bouts. If you blame a minor injury to his inability to finish is hypocrisy as then what was his excuse for not finishing KOS when he lost his vision going into the 2nd round???????


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

skinnyBIGGS said:


> Please he was fighting just like his last 2 fights . Im tired of this debate on his injury being the motive for his lackluster finish. You guys are soo forgetful its sickening remember his last fight???? Kos eye was 10X worse and he was still going after it. People need to wake up and realize GSP is only holding that belt because of grease and is only holding it now because of POINTS SCORING. He is not on any level close to Silva and if that fight ever does happen. You will see what happens when a legite P4P champ Vs GSP. Ugh im soo disgusted in this fight and all the nuthuggers defending there champs SNOOZE fest fight.
> 
> This fight was faught with the same fashion of his last 3bouts. If you blame a minor injury to his inability to finish is hypocrisy as then what was his excuse for not finishing KOS when he lost his vision going into the 2nd round???????


Don't feed the troll, ladies and gentlemen.

Though I will say quickly, learn to read you idiot.



CP said:


> That said, he still has some mental holes, because his eye was fine when he had that opening on Jake. The injury doesn't excuse his safe style, but it does semi-forgive the final few rounds in which he started getting busted up.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

skinnyBIGGS said:


> Please he was fighting just like his last 2 fights . Im tired of this debate on his injury being the motive for his lackluster finish. You guys are soo forgetful its sickening remember his last fight???? Kos eye was 10X worse and he was still going after it. People need to wake up and realize GSP is only holding that belt because of grease and is only holding it now because of POINTS SCORING. He is not on any level close to Silva and if that fight ever does happen. You will see what happens when a legite P4P champ Vs GSP. Ugh im soo disgusted in this fight and all the nuthuggers defending there champs SNOOZE fest fight.
> 
> This fight was faught with the same fashion of his last 3bouts. If you blame a minor injury to his inability to finish is hypocrisy as then what was his excuse for not finishing KOS when he lost his vision going into the 2nd round???????


Agreed, except for the greasing comment. 

I'd be surprised if he still greased after getting caught against Penn.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Jackson seemed a bit annoyed by the questions but I like his responses.


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

skinnyBIGGS said:


> *Please he was fighting just like his last 2 fights . Im tired of this debate on his injury being the motive for his lackluster finish. You guys are soo forgetful its sickening remember his last fight*???? *Kos eye was 10X worse and he was still going after it*. People need to wake up and realize GSP is only holding that belt because of grease and is only holding it now because of POINTS SCORING. *He is not on any level close to Silva and if that fight ever does happen. You will see what happens when a legite P4P champ Vs GSP. Ugh im soo disgusted in this fight and all the nuthuggers defending there champs SNOOZE fest fight. *
> 
> *This fight was faught with the same fashion of his last 3bouts. If you blame a minor injury to his inability to finish is hypocrisy as then what was his excuse for not finishing KOS when he lost his vision going into the 2nd round*???????


Nice to see someone in here who is willing to look at this situation objectively. Its really strange how anyone that says anything negative about GSP is always in the red


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Kreed said:


> Nice to see someone in here who i willing to look at this situation objectively. Its really strange how anyone that says anything negative about GSP is always in the red


You're not... and that post was anything but 'objective'.

That, or your idea of objective is seriously flawed.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

skinnyBIGGS said:


> Please he was fighting just like his last 2 fights . Im tired of this debate on his injury being the motive for his lackluster finish. You guys are soo forgetful its sickening remember his last fight???? Kos eye was 10X worse and he was still going after it. *People need to wake up and realize GSP is only holding that belt because of grease and is only holding it now because of POINTS SCORING.* He is not on any level close to Silva and if that fight ever does happen. You will see what happens when a legite P4P champ Vs GSP. Ugh im soo disgusted in this fight and all the nuthuggers defending there champs SNOOZE fest fight.
> 
> This fight was faught with the same fashion of his last 3bouts. If you blame a minor injury to his inability to finish is hypocrisy as then what was his excuse for not finishing KOS when he lost his vision going into the 2nd round???????


What? :confused03: So in his last 2 fights, where there wasn't much of grappling, only striking and he won because he greased? He is absolutely dominating everybody, how exactly is the points system favoring him when none of his opponents touches him?

I recognize a troll when i see one.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

Some Buffoon said:


> GSP is only holding that belt now because of POINTS SCORING.


I only just realized how ignorant a statement this truly was. It's literally the equivalent of saying GSP only holds the belt because he wins. Or because he's better than his opponents. Bravo. A true scholar if ever there was one.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

AlphaDawg said:


> lol
> 
> Koscheck has an orbital broken, he's a bum. GSP gets his eye scratched, not his fault for bad performance. Love it.


GSP won still though thats the difference :thumb02:


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Injured eye or not, gsp never planned on trying to finish that fight. He was content to have a jab fest all night.


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## <M>MA (Nov 20, 2006)

Ever stop to think that maybe people were calling Kos a bum because he's one of the most hated fighters in the UFC? He's got a huge mouth on him and he obviously backed nothing up vs GSP. 


P.S. Who gave Kos the broken orbital and jacked up face?





















Two good fighters totally neutralized and beaten handily. GSP deserves the be on top of the division and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

TraMaI said:


> Injured eye or not, gsp never planned on trying to finish that fight. He was content to have a jab fest all night.


I like Fitch and dont ever say anything bad against him but , you're criticising GSP for not forcing a finish yet every fight, Fitch is in he more than content to throw pitter patter shots from top position to keep active so the ref doesnt stand them up and yet you're crapping all over GSP for being content with a jab fest and winning the fight i might add yet love Fitch for doing the same thing in reality just in a different position and winning. :confused02:


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## AmdM (Apr 13, 2010)

AlphaDawg said:


> lol
> 
> Koscheck has an orbital broken, he's a bum. GSP gets his eye scratched, not his fault for bad performance. Love it.


I´d take 100 broken orbitals over 1 scratched eye.
Alan Belcher comes to mind.
Hope GSP gets his eye back at 100% but i seriously doubt it.


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

now thats a significant injury. GSP was complaining about blurry vision which was most likely diplopia. I had a similar injury, GSP will be fine


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I couldnt hear the fight while watching it. I was in a loud bar and this girl I'm banging would not shut the **** up. Anyways I could tell his eye was really bothering him just by his actions, I knew it was affecting him in the last two rounds quite a bit. His depth perception seemed off and he just didn't have the accuracy and ability to avoid strikes just was not on par with when the fight started. I was really worried with gsp in round 5, he looked really worried at points. I'm not a fan of gsp.. but damn it I hate shields


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

<M>MA said:


> Ever stop to think that maybe people were calling Kos a bum because he's one of the most hated fighters in the UFC? He's got a huge mouth on him and he obviously backed nothing up vs GSP.


EXACTLY. Thank you for proving my point, even though it was unintentional.



AmdM said:


> I´d take 100 broken orbitals over 1 scratched eye.
> Alan Belcher comes to mind.
> Hope GSP gets his eye back at 100% but i seriously doubt it.


Fair enough. I'd be lying if I said I knew the difference in severity between the two.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Anyone that thinks GSP isnt one of the greatest p4p fighters in the world, doesnt understand MMA. Quit watching... plz. Your making the rest of us look bad. Its like James Tony makes 100 accts and just trolls.


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## hitcat (Sep 20, 2009)

Its simple really, GSP Needs to finish fights. Whether you like him or hate him there is no excuse to not finish fights anymore. His fights have become boring, I honestly dont think his gameplans include a finishing move anymore. As mentioned above, there was no excuse for not finishing the koschek fight. Period. But on the same token, Shields had to know his eye was jacked, in which case, you need to go balls to the wall because his depth perception is way off so you can get in and out and he should have done that and pulled a GSP gameplan and just sat on top of him, only shields would have looked for a submission instead of being content to just lay and pray.
The plans work for GSP dont get me wrong, but I'm no longer a big fan of his anymore he lost his mojo after the serra knockout and to me, doesnt have the bloodlust anymore. With the exception of the hardy fight.


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

hitcat said:


> Its simple really, GSP Needs to finish fights. Whether you like him or hate him there is no excuse to not finish fights anymore. His fights have become boring, I honestly dont think his gameplans include a finishing move anymore. As mentioned above, there was no excuse for not finishing the koschek fight. Period. But on the same token, *Shields had to know his eye was jacked, in which case, you need to go balls to the wall because his depth perception is way off so you can get in and out and he should have done that and pulled a GSP gameplan and just sat on top of him, only shields would have looked for a submission instead of being content to just lay and pray.*
> The plans work for GSP dont get me wrong, but I'm no longer a big fan of his anymore he lost his mojo after the serra knockout and to me, doesnt have the bloodlust anymore. With the exception of the hardy fight.


what makes u think shields has/had the strength to get a TD and keep him down? I think the change from ww to mw back to ww has hurt shields strength/cardiobeyond repair or maybe its always been shaky


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

I guess I don't understand why GSP needs to finish fights. According to the rules of the sport he is dominating rounds and winning on points. It isn't like he needs the KO/Submission bonuses and has plenty of fans.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

GSP fought like he always fights. He has had 5 decisions in his last 6 fights and 4 straight decisions, even with a guy like Hardy he only reaches a decision.

GSP wasn't going to finish that fight, plain and simple. He couldn't finish Hardy, no one logically or reasonably thought he was going to finish or put away Shields, a guy who is much tougher than anyone has he faced thus far.

GSP didn't do anything in the first few rounds that he didn't do in the last few. The fight went exactly how it would have went had there been no eye injury. In the last 3 years, GSP has had 1 finish, that's a fact, and that was against a guy who could easily make 145 and is bloated and gasses after 2 rounds at WW, and that's also a fact.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

M.C said:


> GSP fought like he always fights. He has had 5 decisions in his last 6 fights and 4 straight decisions, even with a guy like Hardy he only reaches a decision.
> 
> GSP wasn't going to finish that fight, plain and simple. He couldn't finish Hardy, no one logically or reasonably thought he was going to finish or put away Shields, a guy who is much tougher than anyone has he faced thus far.
> 
> GSP didn't do anything in the first few rounds that he didn't do in the last few. The fight went exactly how it would have went had there been no eye injury. In the last 3 years, GSP has had 1 finish, that's a fact, and that was against a guy who could easily make 145 and is bloated and gasses after 2 rounds at WW, and that's also a fact.


I disagree. He was VERY close to finishing Hardy. Had him in tight subs twiice. He was alsto very close to finishing Shields as he dropped him at least twice.

Also GSP's over hand rights were getting further and further from landing as the fight went on. I believe that was due to his eye. His cardio didn't appear to be affected at all so there's no other reason for that power shot missing than his perception was jacked.

GSP said that the gameplan was to drop him with the over hand right and either TKO or Sub him after. Once his eye got jacked up he couldn't land the over hand right anymore. I really do think he would have finished him if the eye wasn't scratched.


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## hitcat (Sep 20, 2009)

Kreed said:


> what makes u think shields has/had the strength to get a TD and keep him down? I think the change from ww to mw back to ww has hurt shields strength/cardiobeyond repair or maybe its always been shaky


I'm just going off depth perception, he might not have been able to keep him down. Me personally I think he could have with GSP not being able to see out of his left eye he would have also had better chances to land some big rights in GNP. You have to remember if you think the guy is actually 2-3inches farther away or closer than he really is, your TDD could hurt you by throwing your center of gravity off of where it actually should be to stuff the takedown. When you arent the one in the ring though, you never really know what he was thinking,feeling,seeing. 

And Fieos, Really? You really dont understad why he needs to finish A fight. Not every fight, but when he has AMPLE opportunity to have ended both this fight and the KOS fight but didnt, then stands there and apologizes to the fansfor not "being able" to finish it? Come on now. Its why you are starting to see a lot more people hating on him and his fan base diminishing. Hesimply doesnt have the drive to win decisivly. Look at ALL the other champs, includng silva, they ALL finish the fights.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

PheelGoodInc said:


> I disagree. He was VERY close to finishing Hardy. Had him in tight subs twiice. He was alsto very close to finishing Shields as he dropped him at least twice.
> 
> Also GSP's over hand rights were getting further and further from landing as the fight went on. I believe that was due to his eye. His cardio didn't appear to be affected at all so there's no other reason for that power shot missing than his perception was jacked.
> 
> GSP said that the gameplan was to drop him with the over hand right and either TKO or Sub him after. Once his eye got jacked up he couldn't land the over hand right anymore. I really do think he would have finished him if the eye wasn't scratched.


Or, maybe Shields after a few rounds timed his shots better? Why does it have to be GSP's eye and not Shields adapting and avoiding his shots?

GSP didn't finish Hardy, that's the point. You know who finished Hardy in the last few years? Daniel Weichal, Rory Markham, and Condit.

GSP can't finish the likes of Hardy. It's not impressive on any level if you're talking about supposedly top P4P fighter. It's actually quite sad in that regard. Almost finishing Hardy on the ground (a guy who doesn't have a very good ground game to begin with) doesn't scream P4P in any way shape or form.

It's not just Hardy, it's the fact that in the last 4 years, he's finished 3 people, one of them is Matt Serra (woo hoo), Penn (a natural 145 fighter), and Hughes, and has 6 decisons (4 of his last fights) against competition like Hardy.

My point is, his eye didn't change his performance, not at all. He wasn't going to finish that fight in any way shape or form, and he didn't. Eye or no eye, GSP wasn't going to finish shields.


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

hitcat said:


> I'm just going off depth perception, he might not have been able to keep him down. Me personally *I think he could have with GSP not being able to see out of his left eye he would have also had better chances to land some big rights in GNP. You have to remember if you think the guy is actually 2-3inches farther away or closer than he really is, your TDD could hurt you by throwing your center of gravity off of where it actually should be to stuff the takedown.* When you arent the one in the ring though, you never really know what he was thinking,feeling,seeing.


What has gsp's fuked up eye got to do with the strength/tactics/power hed use to get right backup? and since when has shields ever had anything resembling g&p? if he didnt use it on daley (who looked like a fish out of water) why would he attempt it on a grappling specialist 1 eye or no eye


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

I couldn't care less if I never get to see GSP in the octagon again.

I have no desire to watch this man fight any more. I thought the Hardy and Koscheck fights were embarrassing, this took it to another level.

Dan hardy had nothing, NOTHING to offer GSP and he lasted 5 rounds with him. Dan Hardy people, dan ******* hardy. Josh Koscheck had one eye and looked like he wanted to cry in between all of the rounds because he was so mentally defeated and Grease fails to go for the kill and finish him. Shields..... no comments necessary, embarrassing fight.

GSP is mentally weak and has ZERO killer instinct, I'd love it if he just retired from MMA all together and focused on a career in wrestling, he doesn't have a fighters heart or spirit any more.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

M.C said:


> Or, maybe Shields after a few rounds timed his shots better? Why does it have to be GSP's eye and not Shields adapting and avoiding his shots?
> 
> GSP didn't finish Hardy, that's the point. Who know who finished Hardy in the last few years? Daniel Weichal, Rory Markham, and Condit.
> 
> ...


You should buy some lotto tickets with that psychic ability nostrodamus. GSP was very close to finishing Shields before the eye problem. The eye problem obviously effected his performance. It was plain for anyone watching to see, GSP said it did, and his head trainer said it did. Yet you say with such confidence that it wouldn't have effected the outcome of the fight when it was obviously effecting his performance. Not to mention his performance at the time was dropping Shields with power shots. It is likely to think had that performance continued at some point he would have been able to finish Shields.

So Shields just so happen to up his game at the exact same time as the eye injury? Wow thats a coincidence isn't it? It's not like Shields was bobbing and weaving better. GSP's timing was completely off _when he threw_ the punch. It had nothing to do with Shields timing GSP.

Give credit where credit is due. Shields hasn't lossed in 6 years, and was beaten down by a guy with one eye. I've already explained why it was likely that GSP would have finished the guy who hasn't lossed in 6 years had he not suffered a fluke injury.

It just seems like you're going out of your way to talk bad about the guy.


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> I couldn't care less if I never get to see GSP in the octagon again.
> 
> I have no desire to watch this man fight any more. I thought the Hardy and Koscheck fights were embarrassing, this took it to another level.
> 
> ...


we always seem to be at opposing sides for whatever reason but these are the truest words u have ever written


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

PheelGoodInc said:


> You should buy some lotto tickets with that psychic ability nostrodamus. GSP was very close to finishing Shields before the eye problem. The eye problem obviously effected his performance. It was plain for anyone watching to see, GSP said it did, and his head trainer said it did. Yet you say with such confidence that he still wouldn't finish shields.
> 
> Chances are without the injury he would have continued landing the over hand right and probably finished shields. Impossible to tell either way though.
> 
> ...


Why are the chances good that GSP would have finished Shields if his eye didn't get hurt? GSP's decision rate in his last 10 fights is 70% which in and of itself is sad for a P4P fighter, but when you consider one of those 10 is a loss to Matt Serra, it's even worse. At 70% (with one being a loss in his last 10), any betting man would very easily feel safe with saying GSP will decision his next opponent.

GSP didn't come close to finishing Shields. Seriously, what fight were you watching? GSP never came close even once to finishing Shields. He dropped him and Shields recovered instantly, more importantly, GSP didn't follow through and try to finish. Why was that? My guess is, cause he's a decision fighter, not a finisher, he doesn't take the risks to finish. I have proof to back that up, as if you just add up his last 10 fights, well, you can just read my above paragraph.

Fighters improve during fights, it's called adapting to the situation and timing your opponent. I never said it was Shield's skill that aided him in the later rounds, I said it's as likely as it is that it was GSP's eye that aided Shield's. No one knows what would have happened, however, if you go by past history, it was very, very clear GSP was not going to finish Shields.

As for giving credit? I give credit for GSP for beating a really tough fighter in Shields. I never discredited it. Saying GSP is a decision fighter and would have never finished Shields isn't about not giving credit, if you look at the statistics and how that fight was going, it was very clear that he wasn't going to finish.


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## hitcat (Sep 20, 2009)

Look at what you quoted me Kreed. See that first sentence you blew right past? "I'm just going off depth perception, he might not have been able to keep him down" Depth preception wuld have helped him get GSP to the ground. If you've never had one eye blocked so you couldn't use it, then you dont understand how much it will throw you off even in something as simple as grabbing a cup of coffee, let alone quick jabs from the right.
My post was clear, I think you missed on the comprehension part.
He would of had a better chance to get GSP down due to the eye, he might not have been able to keep him down, if he could and utilized GNP he COULD have landed some big rights. In a nutshell.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Mckeever said:


> I couldn't care less if I never get to see GSP in the octagon again.
> 
> I have no desire to watch this man fight any more. I thought the Hardy and Koscheck fights were embarrassing, this took it to another level.
> 
> ...


Hey you.. When I compete with the gsp style mentality I think its just im a coward or a *****. I like the ideas going around in this thread instead, its cause im smart. 

I mean its all about winning right? The ends justify the means kinda thing I think they are saying.


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

hitcat said:


> Look at what you quoted me Kreed. See that first sentence you blew right past? "I'm just going off depth perception, he might not have been able to keep him down" Depth preception wuld have helped him get GSP to the ground. If you've never had one eye blocked so you couldn't use it, then you dont understand how much it will throw you off even in something as simple as grabbing a cup of coffee, let alone quick jabs from the right.
> My post was clear, I think you missed on the comprehension part.
> He would of had a better chance to get GSP down due to the eye, he might not have been able to keep him down, if he could *and utilized GNP he COULD have landed some big rights. In a nutshell.*


u hurt your arguement by constantly mentioning this because shields has never displayed it..Looks like u missed the part of my post that covered that, huh?


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## hitcat (Sep 20, 2009)

Well I mean if you want to get technical, who knows what his training camp worked on. Just because somebody doesnt use a particular skillset doesnt mean its not there. Its like saying Chuck has no wrestling ability because all he did was stand and strike, I cant even remember the last time I saw chuck build any type of gameplan that used wrestling.


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## <M>MA (Nov 20, 2006)

xeberus said:


> Hey you.. When I compete with the gsp style mentality I think its just im a coward or a *****. I like the ideas going around in this thread instead, its cause im smart.
> 
> I mean its all about winning right? The ends justify the means kinda thing I think they are saying.



Yes, and? Is he champion? Did he not step into the octagon with those fighters? Did they not have 5 rounds to take the belt from him? Did they? He's champ, they have to prove why they should be champ. However he decides to fight it, however he decides to beat them. It's his belt, they have to take it.

Period.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

<M>MA said:


> Yes, and? Is he champion? Did he not step into the octagon with those fighters? Did they not have 5 rounds to take the belt from him? Did they? He's champ, they have to prove why they should be champ. However he decides to fight it, however he decides to beat them. It's his belt, they have to take it.
> 
> Period.


lol misquote? 

This post has nothing to do with my post.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

M.C said:


> Why are the chances good that GSP would have finished Shields if his eye didn't get hurt? GSP's decision rate in his last 10 fights is 70% which in and of itself is sad for a P4P fighter, but when you consider one of those 10 is a loss to Matt Serra, it's even worse. At 70% (with one being a loss in his last 10), any betting man would very easily feel safe with saying GSP will decision his next opponent.
> 
> GSP didn't come close to finishing Shields. Seriously, what fight were you watching? GSP never came close even once to finishing Shields. He dropped him and Shields recovered instantly, more importantly, GSP didn't follow through and try to finish. Why was that? My guess is, cause he's a decision fighter, not a finisher, he doesn't take the risks to finish. I have proof to back that up, as if you just add up his last 10 fights, well, you can just read my above paragraph.
> 
> ...


Your percentage for determing if a fighter will finish their next fight is extremely flawed. Fighters match up differently and that could very well determine whether it will be finished or not. To say someone didn't finish X in the past therefore he won't finish Y in the future is very foolish. Especially when X is a striker, Y is a wrestler, and Z is a brawler. Even two guys who are wrestlers won't have the same style of wrestling. Peope aren't the same... especially in this sport.

GSP dropped Shields and even you mentioned he could have moved in for the kill. A couple hard punches after the drops and that could have been the end of the fight. That is coming close to finishing someone to me.

GSP dropped Shields two or three times (I forgot the exact amount). He said it was part of his plan to keep hitting him with the over hand right until the later rounds and then go for the kill. 

It isn't nearly as likely that Shields just so happened to adapt the second that GSP got hurt. It's actually next to impossible for it to have happened that very moment.

Chances are without that eye injury the over hand right would have continued to land. Chances are after a couple more of those over hand rights they would really start to take a toll on Shields mentally and physically. Chances are around the 4th or 5th round Shields would have been in pretty bad shape from the over hand rights which would have allowed GSP to become more aggressive. Chances are GSP would have finished the fight had it not been for the eye injury.

I'm looking at last nights fight. You are pointing back to opponents and fights that had nothing to do with last night fight and saying "See he didn't finish them either so there's no way he was going to finish Shields!"

Your argument just flat out doesn't make sense. To say that the eye injury had no effect on GSP being able to finish Shields or not is foolish... especially when it was clear that they eye injury severely effected GSP's ability to land power shots that he was already landing prior to the injury.

These same power shots that were part of his game plan to get a finish in the 4th or 5th round. Those power shots get taken away and you say "It doesn't matter he wouldn't finish anyways."

That just wreaks of hatred over common sense.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Your percentage for determing if a fighter will finish their next fight is extremely flawed. Fighters match up differently and that could very well determine whether it will be finished or not. To say someone didn't finish X in the past therefore he won't finish Y in the future is very foolish. Peope aren't the same... especially in this sport.
> 
> GSP dropped Shields and even you mentioned he could have moved in for the kill. A couple hard punches after the drops and that could have been the end of the fight. That is coming close to finishing someone to me.
> 
> ...


GSP's decisioning rate - 70% (with a loss) in his last 10.

GSP's finishing rate - 30%, with Matt Serra (terrible fighter who is a 155 guy), Penn (a 145'er who gasses at WW), and Hughes in his last 10.

A 7-10 ratio for decision.

Then, you apply this:



> "That's true," St-Pierre (20-2 MMA, 15-2 UFC) told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com) on Monday evening as he honed his mat moves with jiu-jitsu coach Shawn Williams at a Renzo Gracie Academy school in the Mid-Wilshire district. "I fight safe, and I'm not going to hide it."


http://mmajunkie.com/news/19283/ufc...-i-fight-safe-and-im-not-going-to-hide-it.mma

It takes only a small amount of common sense and logic to see that GSP is a safe fighter that doesn't take risks (he says so himself, right above, so yeah, hard to deny when it's form the horses mouth), and that because of this, the vast majority of his last 10 fights (again, add it up, it's real and is proven) are decisions.

You can say this or that or do whatever, but the fact (unless you're calling GSP a liar about himself) remains that he fights safe, doesn't take risks, and the end result is a 70% decision rate where he doesn't take risks (like hopping into Shields guard after putting him down).

Point being, GSP was never, ever going to finish Shields, he's not a finish fighter, he's a decision point fighter and he never came close to finishing Shields, and the single time he did hurt him, he didn't follow through in fear of getting in Shield's guard.


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

hitcat said:


> Well I mean if you want to get technical, who knows what his training camp worked on. *Just because somebody doesnt use a particular skillset doesnt mean its not there.*


 the guy has never and I mean never used g&p even when the opportunities have been there and u are still arguing the point?


> *Its like saying Chuck has no wrestling ability because all he did was stand and strike*, I cant even remember the last time I saw chuck build any type of gameplan that used wrestling.


who would be dumb enough to say that when its obvious he uses wrestling to stuff takedowns?

you are a funny kid


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

And? What is the problem, who cares if he doesn't finish fights? He is the CHAMPION he can do whatever he wants, why can't anyone beat him?

People can hate all they want but in the end your just a keyboard warrior and he is the UFC WW champion. Jake Shields dominates everyone for 6 years and doesn't come close to beating GSP. Safe or not, haters gonna hate.












Kreed said:


> who would be dumb enough to say that when its obvious he uses wrestling to stuff takedowns?
> 
> you are a funny kid


It is called an example smart guy.


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

M.C said:


> GSP's decisioning rate - 70% (with a loss) in his last 10.
> 
> GSP's finishing rate - 30%, with Matt Serra (terrible fighter who is a 155 guy), Penn (a 145'er who gasses at WW), and Hughes in his last 10.
> 
> ...


Yes, he is a safe fighter. Yes, he hasn't finished a lot of people in his recent fights. I am not arguing that point.

I am arguing the fact that you don't believe the eye injury would have had an effect on him finishing Shields or not. Shields was a different style fight with a different game plan.

GSP's game plan was to finish Shields by continuously hitting him with the over hand right. The over hand right dropped him twice. The plan was to continuously drop him until the later rounds and then finish (which is why he didn't jump in the guard). That game plan was working pretty well until the eye injury.

I understand it's all speculation since we won't know. But to say without a doubt that GSP would not have finished Shields especially when all the signs were showing that his game plan to finish him was working is foolish.


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

God, I hate this forum after a GSP fight! Do we really have to go through this love/hate relationship after GSP wins a 5 round decision. 

I'll admit that I was frustrated at Georges for his performance yesterday. What was even more frustrating was there was a time he steamrolled threw guys like Sherk, Hughes, and Trigg. Those guys were the top of the food chain 5 years ago. Today, the best he can do is take these people to a decision. But I remind myself the competition has gotten a lot tougher since the Hughes era. Seriously, has their been anybody that was able to beat Jon Fitch let alone finish him. Besides Paulo Thiago who in the WW division can finish Josh Koscheck! These are hard people to beat let alone finish. Also, you can't really say he didn't try to finish Hardy when he had him in some tight submissions.


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

Intermission said:


> It is called an example smart guy.


it wasnt a good one, every1 but stevie wonder could see that TDD is a byproduct of wrestling so if someone says he (chuck) has wrestling but never uses it would just be silly.
Shields resides in his opponents guard all the time and rather than punish them he paws them pitter pattering.To say he has brutal g&p but refuses to use it is foolhardy


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Yes, he is a safe fighter. Yes, he hasn't finished a lot of people in his recent fights. I am not arguing that point.
> 
> I am arguing the fact that you don't believe the eye injury would have had an effect on him finishing Shields or not. Shields was a different style fight with a different game plan.
> 
> ...


Gotta agree with this. That overhand right was flying past Shields face about an inch away so many times and GSP could tell Shields wasn't doing anything to adjust.

I am kinda disappointed he couldn't land it more often though. Shields was doing absolutely nothing to counter it. GSP would pump his double jab as Jake awkwardly backed up and GSP would launch the right. It barely missed so many times.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

PheelGoodInc said:


> Yes, he is a safe fighter. Yes, he hasn't finished a lot of people in his recent fights. I am not arguing that point.
> 
> I am arguing the fact that you don't believe the eye injury would have had an effect on him finishing Shields or not. Shields was a different style fight with a different game plan.
> 
> ...


There was no signs showing he was going to finish that fight. I left in the 4th round to use the bathroom and get a sandwich safely knowing nothing was going to happen, came back half way through the 5th with a striaght, bored face. I felt the same way in the 4th as I did in the second and first, nothing changed. He was outstriking Shields, just as he outstriked Josh. I don't doubt his ability to out point someone in any position, what I fully, completely doubt is his ability to finish.

Going into this fight, I knew that there wouldn't be a finish, and there was not. 

You will not convince me ever that his eye prevented him from finishing, not one single tiny little bit. I have all the evidence, statistics, knowledge of his past fights that all show there was a very good chacne GSP would not finish that fight, and he did not. No injury excuses his inablity to finish, as then you'd have to bring up an excuse for the other 7 times he hasn't finished in his last 10 fights. 

There's no excuse, GSP isn't a finsiher, he is a decision fighter.


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## Canadian Psycho (Apr 22, 2007)

There's just something terribly wrong when a fighter can't dominate 1 million rounds in a row or outclass his competition in every way possible to be considered amongst the P4P elite. The need for flashy knockouts, career and health threatening though they may be, shows just how shifty we as a society have truly become. Especially when it gets to the point where we're willing to label someone boring because he doesn't spill blood for our entertainment. 

He's a decision fighter... so what? He may not finish the fight, but he sure as hell wins it. I think I'm going to give the forums a break for a few days, until this ridiculous GSP knocking subsides. It's bothersome to witness and the level of needless disrespect is growing tiresome. Catch you later.


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## duckyou666 (Mar 17, 2011)

AlphaDawg said:


> lol
> 
> Koscheck has an orbital broken, he's a bum. GSP gets his eye scratched, not his fault for bad performance. Love it.


Stupid much? A broken orbital bone is not as severe as the actual eye, the organ you use to see, being injured. I've had both. At least with the broken orbital, I could still see through the swelling somewhat. When I had my eye ball scratched, I was completely blind on my right side. Bottom line, shut up!!!


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Instead of everyone bitching at GSP for not finishing fights. I want to see OTHER FIGHTERS dominate a 5 round fight without loosing a single round and completely outclassing the opponent. NO ONE IS DOING THAT BUT GSP!!!

SEE
2 can play this game.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Canadian Psycho said:


> There's just something terribly wrong when a fighter can't dominate 1 million rounds in a row or outclass his competition in every way possible to be considered amongst the P4P elite. The need for flashy knockouts, career and health threatening though they may be, shows just how shifty we as a society have truly become. Especially when it gets to the point where we're willing to label someone boring because he doesn't spill blood for our entertainment.
> 
> He's a decision fighter... so what? He may not finish the fight, but he sure as hell wins it. I think I'm going to give the forums a break for a few days, until this ridiculous GSP knocking subsides. It's bothersome to witness and the level of needless disrespect is growing tiresome. Catch you later.


I never said anything about GSP not being a P4P fighter or that he isn't impressive. I said his eye injury had no barring whatsoever in the decision victory, he was going to take it to a decision regardless, as he has done 70% of the time.

It has nothing to do with flashy KO's or any such thing. People are saying the eye injury changed the outcome of the fight, and it did not.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Can't get it to embed but here's a link to a video showing the strike that did the damage for anyone who cares to look at it.
http://www.youtube.com/user/elytko?feature=mhum#p/a/u/0/JEDAHzU5sr4


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

RustyRenegade said:


> Can't get it to embed but here's a link to a video showing the strike that did the damage for anyone who cares to look at it.
> http://www.youtube.com/user/elytko?feature=mhum#p/a/u/0/JEDAHzU5sr4


Gotta love slow motion. It makes everyone look like a bad guy. It totally looks like Jake did that on purpose lol.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

duckyou666 said:


> Stupid much? A broken orbital bone is not as severe as the actual eye, the organ you use to see, being injured. I've had both. At least with the broken orbital, I could still see through the swelling somewhat. When I had my eye ball scratched, I was completely blind on my right side. Bottom line, shut up!!!


Oh really?



AmdM said:


> I´d take 100 broken orbitals over 1 scratched eye.
> Alan Belcher comes to mind.
> Hope GSP gets his eye back at 100% but i seriously doubt it.





AlphaDawg said:


> Fair enough. I'd be lying if I said I knew the difference in severity between the two.


Kinda late bro. Already addressed this. Nice try though. Better luck next time.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> Gotta love slow motion. It makes everyone look like a bad guy. It totally looks like Jake did that on purpose lol.


Not what I was implying just thought it was useful info regarding the discussion



duckyou666 said:


> Stupid much? A broken orbital bone is not as severe as the actual eye, the organ you use to see, being injured. I've had both. At least with the broken orbital, I could still see through the swelling somewhat. When I had my eye ball scratched, I was completely blind on my right side. Bottom line, shut up!!!


Can someone ban this asshat? He's insulting another member in almost every one of his posts.


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## morninglightmt (Sep 7, 2008)

The GSP criticism gets so old. I just wanted to break down his last 10 opponents records. I think the "strength of schedule" metric gets often lost in MMA. I doubt, aside from Edgar, you are going to find anyone who can stack up to GSP as far as strength of schedule goes, so I chose Silva, because he is the one who GSP is most often compared to. I chose the last 10 fights. The last 5 fights doesn't give you quite as much data, but going past 10 and the numbers become a lot less meaningful.

GSP
Matt Hughes 45-8 been finished 8
Josh Koschek 15-5 been finished 2
Matt Hughes 45-8 been finished 8
Matt Serra 11-7 been finished 2
Jon Fitch 23-3-1 been finished 2
BJ Penn 16-7-2 been finished 2
Thiago Alves 18-7 been finished 4
Dan Hardy 23-9-1 been finished 4
Josh Koschek 15-5 been finished 2
Jake Shields 26-5-1 been finished 1

total 253-64-3. opponents have been finished 35 times (4 of those by GSP)

GSP's last 10 opponents have had a 3.77/1 win/loss ratio in their careers and been finished 1 in every 10 fights completely subtracting their fights with GSP from the equation.

Silva
Nate Marquardt 31-10-2 been finished 3
Rich Franklin 28-6-1 been finished 4
Dan Henderson 27-8 been finished 3
James Irvin 15-9-2 been finished 8
Patrick Cote 14-7 been finished 4*
Thales Leites 19-4 been finished 1
Forrest Griffin 18-6 been finished 5
Demian Maia 14-2 been finished 1
Chael Sonnen 25-11-1 been finished 11
Vitor Belfort 19-9 been finished 4

total record 210-72-6. opponents have been finished 44 times (9 of those by Silva)

Silva's last 10 opponents have had a 2.7/1 win/loss ratio in their careers and been finished 1 in every 7.9 fights completely subtracting their fights with Silva from the equation.


The numbers don't lie. GSP's opponents clearly have a better record and are less prone to being finished even ruling out the common opponent. I'm not going to claim that this is the only reason we see more finishes in Silva fights or that Silva isn't generally a much more aggressive finisher. However, I have seen in this thread GSP's words used against him to the effect that he is "unwilling to take risks", which is funny because Anderson Silva is on record having said the exact same thing in regards to the Leites, Cote and Maia fights. 



> “I’m no longer a kid, I have much to lose. It took so long to get here and we, as the age comes, do more conservative fights. I won’t expose myself and be knocked out. I have to be the most efficient possible with any opponent that I fight.”


http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2009/04/27/anderson-silva-im-not-unbeatable/


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## <M>MA (Nov 20, 2006)

Great quote..

I've been saying it for a while, GSP is the champion. He owns the belt, if you want it take it from him. I don't know why people aren't complaining that the contenders didn't finish GSP if he's such a paper champion. He fought Shields for 3 rounds with 1 eye due to a badly scratched cornea and still beat him. The same Shields who went 6 years undefeated in 15 fights.

Strikers can't stay standing with him, wrestlers can't take him down. He neutralizes everyones strengths and beats them because he is well rounded in all areas. So he out strikes ground guys and out wrestles strikers, why is that stupid? Smart fighting if you ask me and if the contenders can't deal with that then they don't deserve the belt. Period.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

ok ill bring up 2 different ufc champs to show you that gsp doesnt fight for a finish but for a decision.

Frank Edgar- he hit penn and maynard and sherk and griffin etc. with his hardest shots that wobbled them but didnt ko them because he is a natural 145er and he physically cant finish these guys but he is still looking for the finish as best he can. hell he even subbed matt veach to prove he can finish someone on the ground but not standing.

Anderson Silva- he is no.1 p4p and everyone wants a gsp fight with him and people say gsp is the champ and he doesnt need to win by finish because he is dominant and he tries to fight for a finish. no anderson silva has a ufc record 13 fight win streak at middleweight and light-heavyweight and finishes most of them except butt scooters(leites) freak injury steel chins(cote) and people he doesnt give a shite about(maia) and has finished unbreakable people like leben,lutter by sub, henderson by sub, beat a top contender at a higher weight(griffin) and overcame adversary to win(sonnen)

gsp is simply scarred from matt serra and never wants to experience any pain ever again which would be fine if he was not a mixed martial artist.


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## <M>MA (Nov 20, 2006)

UFC_OWNS said:


> ok ill bring up 2 different ufc champs to show you that gsp doesnt fight for a finish but for a decision.
> 
> Frank Edgar- he hit penn and maynard and sherk and griffin etc. with his hardest shots that wobbled them but didnt ko them because he is a natural 145er and he physically cant finish these guys but he is still looking for the finish as best he can. hell he even subbed matt veach to prove he can finish someone on the ground but not standing.
> 
> ...


The same Lutter and Henderson that aren't in the UFC anymore? Forrest "Glass Jaw" Griffin? or Chael "I Was Winning the Fight But Threw it Away Even Though I Was Cheating" Sonnen? Chris "lol srsly slow" Leben?

Lutter got the shot because of Ultimate Fighter, Hendo had just come off a loss to Rampage and he gets a title shot at Anderson. Maia and Vitor are the only two my opinion that really earned the right to contend for the title. The MW division is pretty weak.

GSP fights smart, he's the champion. He's too well rounded for anyone to take and he's beaten all the contenders so far. He deserves to be on top.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

<M>MA said:


> The same Lutter and Henderson that aren't in the UFC anymore? Forrest "Glass Jaw" Griffin? or Chael "I Was Winning the Fight But Threw it Away Even Though I Was Cheating" Sonnen? Chris "lol srsly slow" Leben?
> 
> Lutter got the shot because of Ultimate Fighter, Hendo had just come off a loss to Rampage and he gets a title shot at Anderson. Maia and Vitor are the only two my opinion that really earned the right to contend for the title. The MW division is pretty weak.
> 
> GSP fights smart, he's the champion. He's too well rounded for anyone to take and he's beaten all the contenders so far. He deserves to be on top.


*shakes head* lutter was a bjj wizard back then and he got subbed,hendo was pride mw champ and is lhw sf champ now and he has only been subbed by the nig brothers and silva, sonnen is a fantastic wrestler with a steel jaw, leben has a steel jaw, and forrest doesnt have a glass jaw as seen in 90% of his fights. and even if they all sucked(which they dont) he finished all of them. while gsp doesnt finish one eyed kosheck, no stand up jake with bad gameplan, again no stand up fitch, no anything hardy and average ground game alves who has been finished by fitch before.


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## <M>MA (Nov 20, 2006)

Lutter is 10-6, BJJ wizard? Who exactly did he beat to contend for the title? A bunch of UFC washouts on a Ultimate Fighter episode?

Henderson, SF Champ, lol. Hit the big times now! Couldn't beat either of the UFC champs at the time. Barely could contend with contenders in the MW divison, Franklin beat him if you ask me.

Griffin doesn't have a strong jaw, TKO'd by Jardine, Rashad and KO'd by Silva (walking backwards jab) and Jeremy Horn. Also, pretty sure Shogun is going to either TKO or KO him coming up. Which is sad because I love Griffins heart and personality.

Pretty sure Chris Leben is the slowest guy in the UFC, of course Anderson took him out. Has he ever contended for a title?

Chael is a good wrestler, yes who is 25-11, 15 by decision. Tested positive for testosterone after the fight, great example..

My point is the MW division sucks, the competition is lackluster. The WW division is stacked and GSP gets no easy fights. Other than probably Hardy.. lol. Which he should've finished yes, hopefully he's polished his BJJ.


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## morninglightmt (Sep 7, 2008)

We're still comparing opponents between Silva and GSP let's look at some of the win streaks they had coming in to their respective fights.

Jake Shields 15 fight win streak
Jon Fitch 16 fight win streak
Sean Sherk 12 fight win streak
Thiago Alves 7 fight win streak
Dan Hardy 7 fight win streak
Matt Hughes 6 fight win streak
Josh Koscheck 5 fight win streak
Josh Koscheck 3 fight win streak
BJ Penn 3 fight win streak


Rich Franklin 8 fight win streak
Nate Marquardt 6 fight win streak
Chris Leben 5 fight win streak
Vitor Belfort 5 fight win streak
Patrick Cote 5 fight win streak
Travis Lutter 3 fight win streak
Chael Sonnen 3 fight win streak
James Irving 2 fight win streak
Demian Maia 1 fight win streak
Dan Henderson coming off a loss
Forrest Griffin coming off a loss


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## chokeuout381 (Oct 11, 2010)

<M>MA said:


> The same Lutter and Henderson that aren't in the UFC anymore? Forrest "Glass Jaw" Griffin? or Chael "I Was Winning the Fight But Threw it Away Even Though I Was Cheating" Sonnen? Chris "lol srsly slow" Leben?
> 
> Lutter got the shot because of Ultimate Fighter, Hendo had just come off a loss to Rampage and he gets a title shot at Anderson. Maia and Vitor are the only two my opinion that really earned the right to contend for the title. The MW division is pretty weak.
> 
> GSP fights smart, he's the champion. He's too well rounded for anyone to take and he's beaten all the contenders so far. He deserves to be on top.


Yes he sure does deserve to be on top...but under anderson...ufc is where the best fighters r and the best fights..gsp has lost twice while anderson has not lost at all in the ufc...there could only be 1 p4p fighter...gsp has to prove himself and go up in weight...anderson has already done that...and he did it without grease lol


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

morninglightmt said:


> We're still comparing opponents between Silva and GSP let's look at some of the win streaks they had coming in to their respective fights.
> 
> Jake Shields 15 fight win streak
> Jon Fitch 16 fight win streak
> ...


As an addendum to this, 4 of Silva's last 12 opponents have been inferior enough that they were cut from the UFC. Of GSP's last 12, NONE have been cut and Hardy is the only one even in danger of it currently. Most of them are still winning enough that they may get rematches. 

GSP has fought far tougher competition than Silva (and obviously guys much harder to finish).


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## KillerG (Nov 14, 2006)

its funny, back in the day Tim Silvia got slated for fighting to NOT lose, even Joe Rogan called him on it. Now GSP does it and its ok cuss he's great etc.

GSP is slowely turning into a boring fighter, yes he may win but i couldnt give a flying feck if its a boring fight. If some of you are happy that GSP keeps the belt by being boring then its a very sad day for "entertainment".


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## AdRath (Nov 16, 2006)

KillerG said:


> its funny, back in the day Tim Silvia got slated for fighting to NOT lose, even Joe Rogan called him on it. Now GSP does it and its ok cuss he's great etc.
> 
> GSP is slowely turning into a boring fighter, yes he may win but i couldnt give a flying feck if its a boring fight. If some of you are happy that GSP keeps the belt by being boring then its a very sad day for "entertainment".


Can you really blame a guy for 'Fighting not to lose' when he only has vision out of 1 eye for half the fight? Even then Shields still couldn't do much.


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## aerius (Nov 19, 2006)

KillerG said:


> its funny, back in the day Tim Silvia got slated for fighting to NOT lose, even Joe Rogan called him on it. Now GSP does it and its ok cuss he's great etc.


Tim Sylvia's opponents did not walk out of the cage looking like this.










Or this


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

AdRath said:


> *Can you really blame a guy for 'Fighting not to lose' when he only has vision out of 1 eye for half the fight?* Even then Shields still couldn't do much.


Was his vision also impaired against alves? davis? hardy? & kos too?


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Kreed said:


> Was his vision also impaired against alves? *davis?* hardy? & kos too?


My my Kreed....you forgot to take off those *GSP hater glasses*. 
You can't even see what you're typing...:sarcastic12:


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Kreed said:


> Was his vision also impaired against alves? davis? hardy? & kos too?


You do know that most of these guy's are extremely difficult to finish right (except maybe for hardy) and GSP made them all look like a bunch of amateurs. 

Georges is so good compared to the other guy's in his division that people expect him to finish them.


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## morninglightmt (Sep 7, 2008)

limba said:


> My my Kreed....you forgot to take off those *GSP hater glasses*.
> You can't even see what you're typing...:sarcastic12:


lol, i was about to say, who the heck is davis?

he also fought through a torn abductor muscle in the alves fight and dominated that one too.


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## AdRath (Nov 16, 2006)

Kreed said:


> Was his vision also impaired against alves? davis? hardy? & kos too?


Davis? if your going to hate at least know your facts. 

No one can accuse GSP of not trying to finish Hardy. He had him in 2 solid submission locked in and was trying for the finish. Not finishing a fight is different from not trying to finish.


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

morninglightmt said:


> We're still comparing opponents between Silva and GSP let's look at some of the win streaks they had coming in to their respective fights.
> 
> Jake Shields 15 fight win streak
> Jon Fitch 16 fight win streak
> ...


You gsp fans are really clutching at straws now are we really goin to use wins streaks at the point of defeat as a gauge for the level of talent now? so because hardy was on a 7 fight win streak when gsp beat him that is more impressive than. Anderson beating the former pride MW/LHW champion ( 2 fights removed from destroying wanderlai) because he is coming off a loss?

Boneheads


Drogo said:


> As an addendum to this, 4 of Silva's last 12 opponents have been inferior enough that they were cut from the UFC. Of GSP's last 12, NONE have been cut and Hardy is the only one even in danger of it currently. Most of them are still winning enough that they may get rematches.
> 
> GSP has fought far tougher competition than Silva (and obviously guys much harder to finish).


This sort of retarded logic is so amusing so if a MW at the top of his game ran into anderson got mangled beyond repair.And went on to underperform due to nightmares/vision/slow reaction time becuz of the injuries he suffered in that fight.That would diminish anderson's win? But if GSP point fought his way to a win over an okay fighter and that fighter went on to have several no1 contender fights. Thats somehow a testament to the level of tougher competition GSP fought?

retarded


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## Drogo (Nov 19, 2006)

Kreed said:


> Boneheads
> This sort of retarded logic is so amusing so if a MW at the top of his game ran into anderson got mangled beyond repair.And went on to underperform due to nightmares/vision/slow reaction time becuz of the injuries he suffered in that fight.That would diminish anderson's win?



Underperform? 4 guys Silva fought have been cut, you think they all underperformed or were traumatized by fighting Silva? It suggests maybe they weren't top level in the first place (not bad, just not great). Silva has fought some very tough guys but when you compare records GSP's opponents are clearly better relative to Silva's. 



Kreed said:


> retarded


Wow, compelling argument. Please, do go on.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Rauno said:


> You do know that most of these guy's are extremely difficult to finish right (except maybe for hardy) and GSP made them all look like a bunch of amateurs.
> 
> Georges is so good compared to the other guy's in his division that people expect him to finish them.





morninglightmt said:


> lol, i was about to say, who the heck is davis?
> 
> he also fought through a torn abductor muscle in the alves fight and dominated that one too.





AdRath said:


> Davis? if your going to hate at least know your facts.
> 
> No one can accuse GSP of not trying to finish Hardy. He had him in 2 solid submission locked in and was trying for the finish. Not finishing a fight is different from not trying to finish.


Kreed is the leader of *The Anti-GSP Army* LOL

I think _*Morninglightmt*_ said it perfectly when he listed the names GSP has fought in the last years.

The reality is, in all of his title fights, GSP fought *the best fighter* the WW had at that moment: the NO.1 contender, the guy who beat all other WW contenders.
The exceptions are Hardy and BJ (LW champion at that moment).

*Jon Fitch*: 13-1-1 in the UFC: total domination. 
Who is Fitch: the eternal No. 2 WW in the world - no other fighter except GSP has even come close to beating Fitch. *The loss against GSP is his only loss in the last 8 years.* 

*Josh Koscheck*: 13-5 in the UFC. Yes...Thiago KO'd him, but it was more of a flash KO and he also has a sub loss in his 1st UFC fight against Fickett. other than that his only losses are against Alves - another top WW (one that GSP dominated) and ........ (you guessed it right) St-Pierre - twice.
Haters gonna say: "GSP didn't finish him" LMAO...What GSP did to Kos is worse: he broke his f***king face, forced him to have surgery and sent him into a 9 month forced vacation.
The guy can't even run. LOL
That's 10x worse than any KO. 

*Thiago Alves* - 10-4 in the UFC. Key losses against Fisher, in his UFC debut, Jon Fitch twice - remember Fitch?!...the guy that GSP tooled for 25 minutes. And the only other fighter to defeat Alves....GSP of course. Not just beat - dominate for 25 minutes. Shut him down completely. 

*Dan Hardy* - weakest GSP performance in his last 8 fights imo.

*BJ Penn* - total domination ---> made BJ quit - NO COMMENT

*Jake Shields*: *undefeated in 7 years, 15 fight win streak*. 

*< Takes his *GSP love glasses off* >* YES, his performance wasn't his best and he played it more safe than fans would have loved to - me included. 
Did the eye injury had anything to do with this?! Probably. 

Could GSP have risked it more in the 4th and 5th. Yes.
Should he have risked it?! NO...Why?!

Just because some very unsatisfied haters can't get their beauty sleep after another dominant GSP performance?! LMAO...Hell no.

Fact is: NO LIVING FIGHTER has even come close to threatening GSP in a fight in the last 4 years = 165 minutes of fighting in the cage.

No sub attempts against him.
No tagging him...rocking him of the feet.

Every fighter that entered the ring with him hoped to somehow take him out of his comfort zone.

The reality is: he has no comfort zone. *All zones are his comfort zones*. 

Every striker that goes in the ring with him will find out what wrestling is all about.
And wrestler/grappler that fights him will have a looooong night while being outstruk by GSP.

What GSP has managed to do is unique.
He has taken every ALL TOP CONTENDERS the UFC gave him and made them look like they didn't know what they were doing, while doing something...

20 years from now, people will look back at the history of the UFC and/or the UFC's WW division and they will realise what GSP's performances really mean.

And they will have a revelation.






Kreed said:


> ...
> *Boneheads*...
> ...
> ...
> ...


Yeah......really fascinating

But....Who is that *DAVIS* you were talking about?!


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

limba said:


> Kreed is the leader of *The Anti-GSP Army* LOL
> 
> I think _*Morninglightmt*_ said it perfectly when he listed the names GSP has fought in the last years.
> 
> ...


What does any of this have to do with him being a decision fighter?

You should add this on your fact sheet:

FACT - Many people give extra respect to those who go into fights looking to finish and take risks. The majority of Penn's fanbase are people who love to watch him fight because you know when he fights, he goes in there to finish and take risks. It's the same with Wanderlei. People love to watch him fight cause he goes out there and fights, takes the risks and tries to finish his opponent. People RESPECT that, and a lot of people have LESS respect for those who fight safe and don't look to finish, this is a fact.

GSP has stated himself he fights safe and doesn't take risks, it's not a secret or some hidden observation, he himself has said it, and it shows in his 70% decision rate.

You are plain out going to have to accept that just because people don't respect GSP 'cause he fights safe and doesn't look to finish, doesn't mean they don't respect his general skill. I respect GSP for his ability to win in any position and that he is great at out pointing fighters. I don't respect his complete lack of will to finish or take any risks and because of this, he is making his way off my "fighters I want to watch" list. I don't like watching someone play it safe, not take risks for 25 minutes as he rides away into another decision.

You will have to deal with it.


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## FatFreeMilk (Jan 22, 2010)

As others have stated, GSP himself says he doesn't take risks. This, of course, is going to change his style of fighting and believe it or not many people like to see finishes/aggression etc. 

I still like GSP overall skill set, he just holds back way to much for someone of his level. It's like watching a football team employing don't-lose tactics at the expense of their attacking prowess.

It's a shame really.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

M.C said:


> What does any of this have to do with him being a decision fighter?
> 
> You should add this on your fact sheet:
> 
> ...


FACT - GSP wins his fights and is going down as one of the best of all time. He is prolonging his career and i would not be surprised if he keeps winning for another 4-5 years before he starts slowing down. If you dont like watching GSP then simply dont watch him. I on the other hand enjoy the total domination of GSP alot more then i like watching BJ Penn. Decision is a way to win and GSP tends to do it. I wish more fighters would work on being better and being able to outclass their opponents if they even had 35 rounds rather then just trying to swing and what happens happens.

If you dont like how GSP fights then dont watch him. This goes to everyone. Its getting annoying people saying the same thing over and over again after each fight. Who actually wants to read that stuff?? We all saw the same fight.. ntohing is being said that we dont ALL know.


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## morninglightmt (Sep 7, 2008)

M.C said:


> What does any of this have to do with him being a decision fighter?
> 
> You should add this on your fact sheet:
> 
> ...


While I love your avatar M.C, I am not as concerned with your favorite fighter as you seem to think :thumb02: 

I still get butterflies in my stomach watching GSP fight. I always wonder if his next opponent will actually be able to do SOMETHING to him, and he always stomps them in to the ground. So for me, he never disappoints!


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

SideWays222 said:


> FACT - GSP wins his fights and is going down as one of the best of all time. He is prolonging his career and i would not be surprised if he keeps winning for another 4-5 years before he starts slowing down. If you dont like watching GSP then simply dont watch him. I on the other hand enjoy the total domination of GSP alot more then i like watching BJ Penn. Decision is a way to win and GSP tends to do it. I wish more fighters would work on being better and being able to outclass their opponents if they even had 35 rounds rather then just trying to swing and what happens happens.
> 
> If you dont like how GSP fights then dont watch him. This goes to everyone. Its getting annoying people saying the same thing over and over again after each fight. Who actually wants to read that stuff?? We all saw the same fight.. ntohing is being said that we dont ALL know.


you like watching the new gsp fight ? not even gsps training partners like watching him fight probably its never good to be able to take a piss during the mainevent because its a typical snoorefest, i have never seen another fighter fight just for the points win from the getgo instead of a finish. if their was a new sport that consisted of out of range boxing and wrestling gsp would be undisputed champion of that dull sport.


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## morninglightmt (Sep 7, 2008)

UFC_OWNS said:


> you like watching the new gsp fight ? not even gsps training partners like watching him fight probably its never good to be able to take a piss during the mainevent because its a typical snoorefest, i have never seen another fighter fight just for the points win from the getgo instead of a finish. if their was a new sport that consisted of out of range boxing and wrestling gsp would be undisputed champion of that dull sport.


There's already a sport called MMA and he's undisputed champion there :confused02:


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

morninglightmt said:


> There's already a sport called MMA and he's undisputed champion there :confused02:


undisputed champion of safety first kids, diaz and condit and even ellenburger can give him a licking when they come, anderson silva is a real champion and you guys want a fight between the 2, i think it should happen so gsp gets effed up so badly he has to revert back to his pre serra days.


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## Kreed (Feb 5, 2007)

Drogo said:


> Underperform? 4 guys Silva fought have been cut, you think they all underperformed or were traumatized by fighting Silva? *It suggests maybe they weren't top level in the first place (not bad, just not great). Silva has fought some very tough guys but when you compare records GSP's opponents are clearly better relative to Silva's..*


Theles leites was 15-1 before he faced anderson. By your logic this makes him upper echelon but guess what? he really wasnt.It is very comparable to fitch and even shields, anyone can rack up Ws but if your arent beating names/anyone in spectacular fashion its a case of so what.

In fact when dana announced that he was getting a title shot we all winced because this was the same guy that basically lost to nate the fight b4. After anderson, leites lost to sakkara b4 gettin a pink slip and has since lost once in his last 6.That to me sounds like he was cut because ppl didnt care about him/he wanted more than his worth nothin else..

Lutter only seems to lose to named fighters until natal, he should've never got a titleshot anyway like serra who beat GSP if i'm not mistaken..

Cote was 13-4 b4 AS, with loses to lutter, ortiz, leben,doerksen.1nce he sustainable that injury he hasnt been the same. I guess his record entering into the match means nothing now hes been a casualty of bad luck right? strange that because that record (seein as tho thats how u gauge talent) is quite comparable to Kos who u ppl seem to rank so highly :confused05: 

So because irvin (who has battled personal demons amongst steroids/substance abuse) was cut we should now downplay the feat of a man at the height of his title reign risking his streak on a meaningless fight against a lethal striker who happened to be a weight heavier?

Could gsp move up to even face paul harris? 

lol at all this better record stuff, its easier to rack up wins and preserve your career if you are a wrstler as oppose to striker/bjj guy. Just because most of gsp's opponents are still around or have longer streaks when defeated doesnt mean anything

Apart from a hand full of names like melvin, pettis & miller the lw div is full of fighters coming off loses or have 1 W under their belt.Is that now an indication that the division is dookie or is that just a testament to how competitive/deep in talent it is


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## AdRath (Nov 16, 2006)

It is up to George's opponents to put him into dangerous positions that he might lose the fight not George. The entire point of these fights is to win is it not? Its a sport. If the opponent can't even present a challenge that isn't the champions fault. 

Simple Question. What did Jake do (other than eye poke) to try and win the title from George?


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

M.C said:


> What does any of this have to do with him being a decision fighter?
> 
> You should add this on your fact sheet:
> 
> ...


Look MC...i have no problem with people hating GSP, not even against those who don't respect his *heart*.
At least with those who use some common sense, like you did in your post.

But GSP he gets too much un-deserved hate imo.

He said he fights safe: so what?! that doesn't mean he isn't trying to finish fights. It's just that he isn't willing to risk those extra 10% in order to finish an opponent.

I do believe him when he says he tries to finish all of his opponents. And he has proof to back it up.
He had all of his last 6 opponents hurt at one moment or another. He tried to finish all of them. 

Could he have tried harder?! Definitely. 
Should he have risked being subbed or TKO'd (especially this), just to prove he can finish a fight?! And silence some internet critics - the majority being 13-17 year old kids?!?!

St-Pierre is a smart man. Everytime he fight he puts in the balance the risks and the rewards or his actions in a fight.

You've mentioned BJ and Wanderlei, being so loose and ready to leave it all in the cage while taking risks.
Agreed in a way.

Except i didn't see that in BJ in his last 3 fights. No risks, no emotion.
Especially in his last 2 fights: all i saw was a BJ who gave up on winning the fight, before the fight was over. ...just like against GSP.

And - question: what's the diffencebetween GSP's and BJ's opponents?!
Answer: BJ's opponents came to win.
GSP's opponents looked like their main objective was not to lose.
I've always said: a great fight needs 2 fighters. 

You can't blame only GSP for his performances.
GSP's opponents don't get half the hate he does, even though their performances against him *SUCK*.

Like i've said: all of his opponents enter the cage with hopes of somehow figuring a way to beat him. And all of them leave the octagon, wondering *"what the hell just happened in there, for the last 30 minutes?"*



> "I wanted to take him down but he stuffed my first couple of shots and *I don't know why I started boxing him.*" - Jake Shields


He is shutting them down. Simple as that.

It's an ability that very few fighters posses at this moment.
That's something that people need to respect.

But he is fighting to win fights - 1stly.
Knock people out/submit them - 2ndly.

GSP is the best fighter to study atm, if you want to become a great MMA fighter.
I am convinced that studying GSP fight/train, will make you 10 times better, than studying Wanderlei.

Don't get me wrong - i like Silva with all his *fight fot the fans* speeches - but there's a reason why he is 2-5 in his last 7, while being KO'd vicioulsy 3 times.


Do i wish GSP would be more exciting?! HELL YES!

But i also believe that his opponents should raise their mudda-f*cking level and push him harder.
He's human just like everyone else...


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

limba said:


> Look MC...i have no problem with people hating GSP, not even against those who don't respect his *heart*.
> At least with those who use some common sense, like you did in your post.
> 
> But GSP he gets too much un-deserved hate imo.
> ...


Okay, so he's either:

1. Trying to finish Hardy level competition and just can't as he isn't good enough

2. Isn't trying to finish, and that's the reason for his 70% (vast majority) decision rate.

Either way, I'm not nearly as impressed as you are.

70% is not a trivial percentage, it's not a touch and go percentage, 70% is a vast majority percentage, you realize this, yes?

If you were skydiving, and the instructor told you that 70% of the time the parachute doesn't open up and you will fall to your death, would you feel okay saying "well, it may be 70%, but at least they try to get the gear working!"?

70% = vast majority, 70% = you can place a bet safely knowing that what happened in the 70% is probably going to happen again.

GSP either CAN'T finish these guys, or he chooses to play it safe to a point where he doesn't, there's no other possible outcome, and either one of those 2 is not impressive when talking about a P4P fighter.

You want to call him great? Sure, he's great at out pointing guys, that's all fine and dandy. You want to call him exciting or a finisher or a guy who takes risks and goes out there to entertain? Then you are blind, and that's the exact reason why people have less respect for him.

If you CAN'T finish, simply by skill level, then there's no shame in that, but don't call that person amazing if he can't finish Dan Hardy competition. If you CAN finish these fighters, but don't take the risks to actually do it, then I have less respect for you for not going out there and trying to finish fights and instead coward your way into boring decisions over and over (70% of the time) again.

Either GSP isn't good enough to finish guys, or he is good enough but chooses not to in the fear of losing, there's no other way around it.


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## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

I think it's hilarious that guys like M.C. who complain about GSP would have been the first ones to blast him if he jumped in the Shields guard and got subbed. 

Have we learned nothing from the Fedor vs. Werdum fight? Guys are too good, too technical for that foolishness. 

limba broke it down awesome +rep


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Except I wouldn't have called him stupid or "blased him" for trying to finish a hurt opponent?

Oh, wait, that's you putting words in my mouth, please refrain from doing so.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

M.C said:


> Okay, so he's either:
> 
> 1. Trying to finish Hardy level competition and just can't as he isn't good enough
> 
> ...


Hate him...disrespect him...respect him less...

It's your decision. I'm fine with that. It's only human nature, afterall - to like or dislike certain people/facts/events etc.

The 2 of us will probably agree on *70%* of the things said on this place (MMAF) *= vast majority*, but we're not agreeing on this one.
That's *super-duper*.

I'm respecting his ability to make great fighters (top contender's) look like crap when they're fighting him. 
I'm sorry, but if you can't respect that, you are *negging* his talent and skills.

I'm respecting his desire/ability to finish fighters, *but not as much* as respecting his ability to dominate fights *00:01 to 25:00 time.* 

PS: 2 things i don't agree with in yur posts:

1.


> You want to call him exciting or a finisher or a guy who takes risks and *goes out there to entertain*?


Bolded part - for you/me/us (the fans) it's "go out there to entertain". Fort them, the fighters, it's "go out there to *WIN*".
A *small-big* difference.

When one of the people who criticises him soo much, proves he is 5% the fighter GSP is - i will bow down to him and call him *master,*

2.


> ...is not impressive when talking about a *P4P* fighter


Again, the bolded part.
For me, that's fairy tale material right there.

It's like comparing comic books characters.
Who is better: Hulk or Superman.

I may be alone in this one, but P4P just does't cut it for me...idk why. maybe it's because intelligent fighters don't give a sh*t about P4P and it's only an imaginary invention, created by the fans and supported by thousands of 10-13 year-olds?!?! Beats me...

But, i don't think it's something that's keeping a fighter awake at night: not being a TOP P4P in some imaginary rankings, knowing at the same time, that he's the undisputedand & proven champion in the biggest and most recognised fighting organisation int the world.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

limba said:


> Hate him...disrespect him...respect him less...
> 
> It's your decision. I'm fine with that. It's only human nature, afterall - to like or dislike certain people/facts/events etc.
> 
> ...


I also respect his ability to make fighters look less skilled, but that still doesn't stop the FACT that 70% of his fights are decisions where he doesn't take risks to finish, thus doesn't earn my or many people's respect.

I'm not talking about his ability to out point a fighter and win rounds, I'm talking about his complete lack of heart and will to go out there and finish guys. I respect those who go out there, take the skills they have, an actually apply them and do their best. GSP does not do this. He takes the skills he has, hides behind them, plays it safe and out points until a nice long boring 25 minutes are over. I don't respect this nore will I ever.

He either hides behind his skills and only does justttt enough to win the rounds and not finish, or this is his highest skill level and he can't finish Dan Hardy, nore 70% of his other opponents.

Call him great as much as you want, that doesn't stop the fact that he has no will or intention of using his skills to actually finish fights 'cause he'd have to actually risk something to do it, and that right there is why many don't have respect for him.

You say he has a lot of undeserved hate, he does not. People hate/dislike the fact that someone who has the skills to finish and go out there and do better hides behind his skills and only does the minimum to win. It's a trait in a person that is disrespected and rightfully so, be it GSP or anyone else.


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

AlphaDawg said:


> I recommend you look back after the fight ended. Koscheck got plenty more insults than he deserved and very few people appreciated the fact he fought 5 rounds with a broken orbital.


Can we agree that any guy that climbs into the Octagon alone in front of thousands of people over and over again for a living is tough, and leave it at that? Kind of goes without saying to me.


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## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

M.C said:


> I also respect his ability to make fighters look less skilled, but that still doesn't stop the FACT that 70% of his fights are decisions where he doesn't take risks to finish, thus doesn't earn my or many people's respect.
> 
> I'm not talking about his ability to out point a fighter and win rounds, I'm talking about his complete lack of heart and will to go out there and finish guys. I respect those who go out there, take the skills they have, an actually apply them and do their best. GSP does not do this. He takes the skills he has, hides behind them, plays it safe and out points until a nice long boring 25 minutes are over. I don't respect this nore will I ever.
> 
> ...



you need to explain the "doesnt take risks to finish" thing. if i remember correctly he dominated and beat the piss out of penn on the ground, the same penn who swept and chocked out a prime hughes. remember what maynard did to edgar....gsp did that for 5 rounds against fitch. what about taking alves back at will and dropping him standing then following him down and hitting him with about 15 punches and elbows. what about the armbar he had hardy in? the same armbar the had hughes verbally tap. what about the right hands he blasted shields with? the same right hands henderson hit shields with. i guess hendo didnt try to finish either. or maybe these are just really really tough guys.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

spaulding91 said:


> you need to explain the "doesnt take risks to finish" thing. if i remember correctly he dominated and beat the piss out of penn on the ground, the same penn who swept and chocked out a prime hughes. remember what maynard did to edgar....gsp did that for 5 rounds against fitch. what about taking alves back at will and dropping him standing then following him down and hitting him with about 15 punches and elbows. what about the armbar he had hardy in? the same armbar the had hughes verbally tap. what about the right hands he blasted shields with? the same right hands henderson hit shields with. i guess hendo didnt try to finish either. or maybe these are just really really tough guys.


How about dropping shields and not jumping in his guard to finish it? How about not using proper technique in the Hardy fight as if he would have done so, he had a chance of losing dominant position so he didn't fully go for the finish? How about making Josh go blind, then spend the rest of the fight jabbing him to death instead of taking advantage of Josh being blind and put the heat on and finish him?

Tell me, is GSP simply not skilled enough to finish these guys, or is he not trying hard enough? It has to be one or the other.

My guess, he is definitely skilled enough to have finished all these guys, but he did not, as doing so would mean either taking a risk in losing a position, taking a risk in getting subbed (in someone's guard after rocking him, like in the Shields fight), etc. 

His job is to win, and he does, but that doesn't mean he's exciting/entertaining or that he deserves any respect for his safe guarded fighting style.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Josh Koscheck genuinely looked like he wanted to cry in between every round of that fight. He should have spent no longer than three rounds in there with GSP. He was beaten physically and mentally, yet GSP still failed to pull the trigger and commit to a finish. I agree with every thing MC has said thus far.


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## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

actually a lot of the Kos fight he was using an inside left hook not a jab. and he switch over from a double jab or jab inside left hook combo to take away Kos' right to a more powerful counter left hook when Kos threw the power right. it landed a few time and wobbled Kos but never landed flush which is just plain luck. 

the hardy armbar while not being entirely correct was exactly the same one he finished hughes with. thing is no one even noticed he did it incorrectly til they showed the scene back stage. i mean no one came out after hughes 3 talking about it


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

M.C said:


> How about dropping shields and not jumping in his guard to finish it? How about not using proper technique in the Hardy fight as if he would have done so, he had a chance of losing dominant position so he didn't fully go for the finish? How about making Josh go blind, then spend the rest of the fight jabbing him to death instead of taking advantage of Josh being blind and put the heat on and finish him?
> 
> Tell me, is GSP simply not skilled enough to finish these guys, or is he not trying hard enough? It has to be one or the other.
> 
> ...


It's basic risk vs. reward. Why would he go to the ground with Shields? Picking apart Kos, keep doing it. Force the contender to do somehting to win the title.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

M.C said:


> I also respect his ability to make fighters look less skilled, but that still doesn't stop the FACT that 70% of his fights are decisions where *he doesn't take risks to finish*, thus doesn't earn my or many people's respect.


1. Question for you - and i want an honest and objective answer, based on your character: If you were in GSP's shoes - fighting some of the best fighters in the world - and you knew that you are winning the fight and your opponent is too tentative/scared to attack you, so he's waiting for you to take an unnecessary risk, just to shut up some critics and cool-off some steam in the process...

*Would you take that risk?!*

Comparing the risks with the rewards...

Honest answer!!! PLS...

2. Let's say he would take that risk. Leading on the scorecards after 3 rds: 30-27 - he's going in the 4th rd and tries to knock his opponent out, engages in a scramble, gets tagged ---> dropped ---> (T)KO'd. Loses the fight.

How would you call a fighter who does something like that?!

I believe most of the people would call him stupids tbh.

Maybe, you and 3% of the fans that *respect him less* after his latest fights would say: "i respect him more for taking a risk and trying to finish his opponent".

The other 97% would laugh and call him stupid. I can guarantee you that.

Question: how would your decision to respect him more after losing a fight, help him?! 

It's like you showing off in front of your friends, trying to do some crazy-unnecessary stuff, that could lead to you getting injured or other un-wanted results. 

Bottom line: in this case - screw training: he knows how to throw a good punch - just get in the cage and try to knock the other guy's head off. If he fails and gets KO'd in the process...no poblem - there is always next time.
But that would send this sport back 15 years: UFC 1 territory.



M.C said:


> I'm not talking about his ability to out point a fighter and win rounds, *I'm talking about his complete lack of heart and will to go out there and finish guys.* I respect those who go out there, take the skills they have, an actually apply them and do their best. GSP does not do this. He takes the skills he has, hides behind them, plays it safe and out points until a nice long boring 25 minutes are over. I don't respect this nore will I ever.


That's pure subjective, what you're saying there.
You can't prove he doesn't try to finish his opponents.
Not when you see him punching them and kicking them in the head.

And as far as lack of *heart and will* - i am surprised to see a BJ Penn fan talk about this subject, knowing how easily he gives up when things don't go the way he likes to. 



M.C said:


> He either hides behind his skills and only does justttt enough to win the rounds and not finish, or this is his highest skill level and he can't finish Dan Hardy, nore 70% of his other opponents.
> 
> Call him great as much as you want, that doesn't stop the fact that he has no will or intention of using his skills to actually finish fights 'cause he'd have to actually risk something to do it, and that right there is why many don't have respect for him.
> 
> You say he has a lot of undeserved hate, he does not. People hate/dislike the fact that someone who has the skills to finish and go out there and do better hides behind his skills and only does the minimum to win. It's a trait in a person that is disrespected and rightfully so, be it GSP or anyone else.


Ad far as his finishing skills are concerned. GSP doesn't have one punch KO power - it's proven.
He doesn't have sick submission BJJ (like Maia for example) - also proven.

I don't know why people talk about him like he was some kind of KO artist 5-6 years ago.

And yes: he does get undeserved hate. My opinion of course.

I still fail to see why no one is showing hate for his opponents - the fighters that talk about how much they wanna beat GSP, take his belt and become champions.
And when it's fight time, all of them chicken out.




> "GSP will take me down, and I will submit him"





> "I’ve told GSP from day one that I will make him stand up and that I’m going to knock him out"





> "I’m going to knock [GSP] out, so don’t blink"





> "I'm going to knock him out" and "shock the world"


And my favorite........



> "to the death Georges...to the death..."


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

spaulding91 said:


> actually a lot of the Kos fight he was using an inside left hook not a jab. and he switch over from a double jab or jab inside left hook combo to take away Kos' right to a more powerful counter left hook when Kos threw the power right. it landed a few time and wobbled Kos but never landed flush which is just plain luck.
> 
> the hardy armbar while not being entirely correct was exactly the same one he finished hughes with. thing is no one even noticed he did it incorrectly til they showed the scene back stage. i mean no one came out after hughes 3 talking about it


Josh couldn't see, he was blind, and he was done. He had nothing for GSP, absolutely nothing, yet GSP still couldn't put the heat on and finish him. If he did, he'd risk getting in a slug fest and risk getting clipped. He's skilled enough to avoid being clipped, but he doesn't have the heart or will to push himself and actually take the risk and put him away, it was sad watching.

Whether it was during or after, it's right there, so your point is irrelevant regarding the Hardy fight. GSP didn't risk following through because it would mean losing position, and he wasn't willing to take that risk, even though Hardy's grappling isn't that good.

GSP doesn't take risks, he's a safe fighter (he says so himself, I have the link to that interview if required), and this isn't respected by me and others, as it makes his fights boring, and most importantly makes us sick watching a talented fighter take guys like Josh and Hardy to a decision cause he's afraid of firing his skills off at them.



limba said:


> 1. Question for you - and i want an honest and objective answer, based on your character: If you were in GSP's shoes - fighting some of the best fighters in the world - and you knew that you are winning the fight and your opponent is too tentative/scared to attack you, so he's waiting for you to take an unnecessary risk, just to shut up some critics and cool-off some steam in the process...
> 
> *Would you take that risk?!*
> 
> ...


*1. Question for you - and i want an honest and objective answer, based on your character: If you were in GSP's shoes - fighting some of the best fighters in the world - and you knew that you are winning the fight and your opponent is too tentative/scared to attack you, so he's waiting for you to take an unnecessary risk, just to shut up some critics and cool-off some steam in the process...

Would you take that risk?!*

Yes, I would, as does Shogun, Anderson, Penn, Aldo, Rampage, Nick, Fedor, Overeem, Werdum, Cain, JDS, Brock, Wanderlei, Rich, Maia, Jones, Melendez, Aoki, and countless others. Hell, even Machida is starting to finish more. You see someone hurt or see an opening? You go in for the kill, it's called the will and heart to finish and killer instinct, which GSP lacks completely.

*question: how would your decision to respect him more after losing a fight, help him?! *

Him going for the finish = exciting, fun to watch, the fact that I'm watching a fighter actually use his skills instead of hide behind him. Very simple how I'd respect him more for taking risk and actually trying to finish fights rather than hide and coward his way to decisions.

As for his opponents, they aren't considered the great fighters GSP is. If you can't finish cause you're not skilled enough, there's no issue. Unlike them, GSP IS skilled enough, but purposely chooses to hide and coward his way to decisions and not finish. So, again, either GSP isn't as great we all think cause he doesn't have the skill to finish middle of the road fighters, or he doesn't have the heart or will to do it. Which one is it?

Also, 3%? There's about a 50/50 split on this forum alone in this subject, so I highly suggest you redo your math.


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## El Bresko (Mar 12, 2010)

<M>MA said:


> Lutter got the shot because of Ultimate Fighter


What's your point? So did Serra and he TKOed GSP.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

M.C said:


> Josh couldn't see, he was blind, and he was done. He had nothing for GSP, absolutely nothing, yet GSP still couldn't put the heat on and finish him. If he did, he'd risk getting in a slug fest and risk getting clipped. He's skilled enough to avoid being clipped, but he doesn't have the heart or will to push himself and actually take the risk and put him away, it was sad watching.
> 
> Whether it was during or after, it's right there, so your point is irrelevant regarding the Hardy fight. GSP didn't risk following through because it would mean losing position, and he wasn't willing to take that risk, even though Hardy's grappling isn't that good.
> 
> ...


We're never gonna agree on this, will we?!

I can take almost all of the names in the list you gave me - regarding fighters that go for a finish - and give you arguments about how their decisions cost them a win or how their finishing ability wasn't top notch on certain occasions:

*BJ* vs Fitch - BJ had an excellent opportunity to get the RNC, he didn't.
*Fedor* vs Werdum - No comment
*Rampage* vs Rashad - 3rd rd...
*Machida* vs Rampage - 3rd rd...
*Anderson* vs Maia - first 3 rds...
*Aldo* vs Faber - all fight long. Especially the 4th rd: mounted crucifix, for more than 1 minute...
*Aldo* vs Hominick - tagged Hominick on numerous occasions - no finish
*JDS* vs Nelson - ...
*Wanderlei* vs 5 of his last 7 opponents = 3 vicious KO losses - No comment
*Lesnar* - ..........
*Aoki* vs Yuichiro Nagashima - 2nd rd KO - no comment
*Overeem* - *Pride Overeem* - too many examples: Liddell, Werdum, Shogun...
*Cain* - hasn't face the level of competition in his weight class that GSP has faced in his. GSP has 6 title defenses. Cain zero.

etc etc etc...

By no means am i trying to discredit these fighters. I'm just saying there are arguments that go against yours, using the same guys you labeled as being the type of fighters that are always looking to finish.

GSP doesn't need to prove anything to anyone - except himself and his trainers.
He will let all the hate fly by him, because at the end of the day he has his fans. Me included. And trust me: he is aware of the criticism that goes around. It's not like he doesn't have internet.

But, i don't get it: why are the people who don't like him so irritated because of him, ESPECIALLY when they know he said: "i like to fight *SAFE*"!?!?

It's the same thing for the last 4 fights.

I think all this hate started after the Hardy fight. 

I can't imagine someone hating him for not finishing Fitch or Alves - that's ridiculous. Those fights were great!

But those fights had an element the last 3 GSP fights didn't have: *2 GUYS WILLING TO FIGHT*.

Both Fitch and Alves tried to take the fight to GSP in a way. They didn't give up and kept on trying to come forward......somehow.

I repeat: those were great fights. GSP vs Fitch is one of my favorite fights (watched it 5 times at least).

I will end this (5 am here) by saying: i also want GSP to finish his opponents more often. I wanna see him risk more.

But, i also believe we - keyboard warriors - have no f*cking idea what it's like to be him.
So it's only biased or un-biased opinions flying arounf the web.

_PS: there is one guy in your list that i have a problem with...not the fighter (i actually love the fighter), but it's about you and other MMA fans (MMAF members), who like to throw rocks at GSP for becoming more cautious and fighting safe recently, after being much more exciting in his earlier career fights.
GSP gets s*it on, but this fighter has started going the same road, but no one is saying anything about that.....YET_

Demian Maia

_Agree or not?!_


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

limba said:


> We're never gonna agree on this, will we?!
> 
> I can take almost all of the names in the list you gave me - regarding fighters that go for a finish - and give you arguments about how their decisions cost them a win or how their finishing ability wasn't top notch on certain occasions:
> 
> ...


Yes, you can take any fighter and pick out a few decison wins or losses, but can you take 70 PERCENT of their fights and show me decisions? No, you cannot. Every fighter has a few decisions, only GSP has 70% of them, that's why he's the one we're losing respect for.

No, he doesn't need to prove anything to anyone, who said he did? Tell me 1 single person who said he needed to prove anything? He can have a split fan-base while he doesn't finish, that's his decision.

Him having to prove something and being a non-risk, boring decision fighter are two completely different things. 

Also, speak for yourself when throwing the keyboard warrior remark, unless you don't know what the term keyboard warrior actually means.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

M.C is right end of discussion, GSP is a safety freak


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

M.C said:


> Yes, you can take any fighter and pick out a few decison wins or losses, but can you take 70 PERCENT of their fights and show me decisions? No, you cannot. Every fighter has a few decisions, only GSP has 70% of them, that's why he's the one we're losing respect for.
> 
> No, he doesn't need to prove anything to anyone, who said he did? Tell me 1 single person who said he needed to prove anything? He can have a split fan-base while he doesn't finish, that's his decision.
> 
> ...


We're never gonna agree on this...

But, tell me: how about *my spoiler*.

You mentioned him in *your list*. 
After his recent fights...i don't know...is he taking GSP's road?!

_PS: keyboard wattiot - when i say this i reffer to all people who express their emotions/feelings through the internet: anger, happiness, frustration, joy, admiration etc etc etc...

When it comes to MMA it's even more funny...i *LOVE* :sarcastic12: people who don't know what a proffesional fight means, some have never been in fight all their life - but they criticise someone who is doing this for + 10 years - and they think they know what proffesional fighting is all about.......myself included of course.

I find it...*strange*._


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

limba said:


> We're never gonna agree on this...
> 
> But, tell me: how about *my spoiler*.
> 
> ...


Maia has a 40% decisions rate, that means the majority of his last 10 fights are finishes. 40% to 70%. Take also into fact that Maia isn't supposed to be some amazing fighter like GSP is. Should I start expecting GSP to have a decision rate like Maia's? That would mean GSP isn't as skilled as I assume he is. Wait, GSP has a much higher decision percentage than Maia, so we're already there.

Also, Keyboard Warrior means - _A Person who, being unable to express his anger through physical violence (owning to their physical weakness, lack of bravery and/or conviction in real life), instead manifests said emotions through the text-based medium of the internet, usually in the form of aggressive writing that the Keyboard Warrior would not (for reasons previously mentioned) be able to give form to in real life. _

I have no physical weakness or lack of bravery/conviction in real life, nore do I use the internet to vent. So, as I said, speak for yourself.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

The fact is GSP gets into the gym and works harder in the gym than anyone on this forum every single day of his life. Then he steps into the octagon with the best fighters on the entire planet. Then he proceeds to make them look like they just started mma yesterday.

I don't know how some of you don't think he hasn't earned your respect. He has reached the absolute pinnacle of his career and is EASILY the #1-2 fighter in the world and one of the best EVER.

You can hate him, but it is ridiculous that someone who puts himself on the line for your entertainment somehow hasn't "earned your respect"


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

HitOrGetHit said:


> The fact is GSP gets into the gym and works harder in the gym than anyone on this forum every single day of his life. Then he steps into the octagon with the best fighters on the entire planet. Then he proceeds to make them look like they just started mma yesterday.
> 
> I don't know how some of you don't think he hasn't earned your respect. He has reached the absolute pinnacle of his career and is EASILY the #1-2 fighter on the world and one of the best EVER.
> 
> You can hate him, but it is ridiculous that someone who puts himself on the line for your entertainment somehow hasn't "earned your respect"


Obviously people respect anyone for getting in a cage and fight.

Respect we are talking about is based on the sport. In a sport where other countless fighters are putting it all on the line, taking the risks to finish guys and go for the kill, you have GSP who does not. At all. I respect him for his skills, I respect him for working hard, etc etc, but I don't respect him for his fighting style, his complete lack of heart and intent on risking anything because he's afraid of losing, and because of this he puts on boring fights. 

Obviously we are saying respect in the world of the sport, compared to many, many, many other fighters who actually do go in there to put on a show and entertain, to use their skills to finish and put it all on the line, not in general. In general anyone who steps into a cage to fight has respect.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

And his opponents have not put him into trouble either. It isn't all on gsp. I mean he completely dominates everyone. Look at koschecks face. Look at fitch and alves' face. Where was BJ Penn at the end of the fight? Hughes and Serra? GSP killed them. Fighting is not all about finishing. It is much more than that. 

I can definitely appreciate the complete domination GSP shows and how much skill and technique accompanies that. This is a sport and gsp is winning. I mean why fault him for doing something that allows him to not only win but dominate and his opponents can't even come near putting him in any sort of remote trouble.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

M.C said:


> Maia has a 40% decisions rate, that means the majority of his last 10 fights are finishes. 40% to 70%. Take also into fact that Maia isn't supposed to be some amazing fighter like GSP is. Should I start expecting GSP to have a decision rate like Maia's? That would mean GSP isn't as skilled as I assume he is. Wait, GSP has a much higher decision percentage than Maia, so we're already there.


You like numbers, don't you MC?! 

While i agree Maia's decision rate is lower than GSP's, you have to take in consideration a couple of things:

1. he slowed down in his last fights - regarding his finishing rate. I believe that KO loss against Marquardt has a lot to do with that - just like GSP's case with Serra 1.

2. while GSP's *decision winning rate* has gone up while fighting *only No. 1 contenders*, Maia's 'decision winning rate* has gone up while fighting mid level fighters: Miller, Grove and Miranda are far from top contenders.

3. GSP is the most well rounded/skilled MMA fighter, but the reality is: he isn't the best pure striker, or the best pure wrestler or the best pure BJJ fighter in his weight class.
Maia is the best BJJ fighter at MW - it's not only my opinion but from what i've saw, most MMAF members believe this also.

You can't say GSP had such a HUGE advantage against Fitch, Alves and Kocsheck especially - when talking about a certain MMA discipline.
He had a big avantage over Shields in the striking department, but common: Henderson, Daley, Lawler pr Kampmann - recognised as having huge advantage over Shields on the feet couldn;t put him away.

The only fighter GSP had a MASSIVE advantage over was Hardy - on the ground. Not finishing him when he had the opportunity was something i didn't enjoy. Still don't.

On the other hand - Maia is recognised as this INCREDIBLE submission artist - something he failed to showcase in his last 3 fights.
Just saying...

*PS: i absolutely like Maia. Love his BJJ. 
So...note to his fans: i'm not atacking him or trying to discredit him, just making a comparison about 2 of the best fighters in the world and their very similar recent runs.*



M.C said:


> Also, Keyboard Warrior means - _A Person who, being unable to express his anger through physical violence (owning to their physical weakness, lack of bravery and/or conviction in real life), instead manifests said emotions through the text-based medium of the internet, usually in the form of aggressive writing that the Keyboard Warrior would not (for reasons previously mentioned) be able to give form to in real life. _
> 
> I have no physical weakness or lack of bravery/conviction in real life, nore do I use the internet to vent. So, as I said, speak for yourself.


I explained what i understand through *keyboard warrior*.
I gave it a different interpretation than the *normal definition*.



> But, i also believe we - keyboard warriors - have no f*cking idea what it's like to be him.


Just replace that expression with "normal people who like to sit behind a monitor and type words using their PC/laptop/Ipad key, but actually they've never been through similar experiences like the person they are talking about".


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

limba said:


> You like numbers, don't you MC?!
> 
> While i agree Maia's decision rate is lower than GSP's, you have to take in consideration a couple of things:
> 
> ...


Maia isn't called one of the best fighters in the world, never has been. GSP is. If you CAN'T finish a fight, because your skill level is not up to par with the one you are fighting, then that is okay.

GSP (according many) is a P4P great. If you have such an advantage over your opponent (he does), you should finish it. GSP COULD HAVE finished all those fights, he chose not to, that's the difference. If you can't, okay, if you can but are a coward and choose to not take any risks, then I don't respect you for it nore will I ever.

Your Maia comparison falls flat and is irrelevant. If you used another P4P fighter who has a similar decision rate, you'd be Going somewhere, but you can't name another P4P with such a terrible finish/decision ratio.

Remember when Anderson went to a decision with Maia and Thales? Everyone was alllll over Anderson for not finishing fighters who were not on his skill level, everyone, cause someone of his skill should be able to finish lower level guys. The difference? Anderson had 2 decisions (not even back to back), and GSP has had 5 of his last 6. 

Give that some thought.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

M.C said:


> Josh couldn't see, he was blind, and he was done. He had nothing for GSP, absolutely nothing, yet GSP still couldn't put the heat on and finish him. If he did, he'd risk getting in a slug fest and risk getting clipped. He's skilled enough to avoid being clipped, but he doesn't have the heart or will to push himself and actually take the risk and put him away, it was sad watching.
> 
> Whether it was during or after, it's right there, so your point is irrelevant regarding the Hardy fight. GSP didn't risk following through because it would mean losing position, and he wasn't willing to take that risk, even though Hardy's grappling isn't that good.
> 
> ...


That is just a horrible example. Other then Anderson, most of those guys dont even come close to outclassing their opponents like GSP does. They get the finish because they NEED to get the finish, they dont have the talent to outclass their opponents. AND to be pretty damn honest even ANDERSON SILVA when he is "outclassing" his opponents he tends to not go in for the kill. As proof with the Theiles and Maia fights.

The real question is why these fighters that KNOW they are losing the fight not go in and try to get the finish. Why do they allow themselves to go to a decision knowing what the result is going to be?? I think people need to talk about that a bit more.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> That is just a horrible example. Other then Anderson, most of those guys dont even come close to outclassing their opponents like GSP does. They get the finish because they NEED to get the finish, they dont have the talent to outclass their opponents. AND to be pretty damn honest even ANDERSON SILVA when he is "outclassing" his opponents he tends to not go in for the kill. As proof with the Theiles and Maia fights.
> 
> The real question is why these fighters that KNOW they are losing the fight not go in and try to get the finish. Why do they allow themselves to go to a decision knowing what the result is going to be?? I think people need to talk about that a bit more.


How do you get the finish against GSP? GSP is leaps and bounds more skilled than them, which is the point. GSP should have and could have finished most of the people he has fought in his last 10, yet didn't. 

If you can't finish/beat a fighter, there's no shame or issue in it, you simply aren't skilled enough. However, if you are a lot better than a fighter, yet take no interest in putting it all out there and finishing it, and rather fight safe and decision your opponent 70% of the time, that's where the issue is.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I don't really think GSP is acting cowardly in any way. Like is said he fights and puts himself on the line against the best of the best, I am pretty sure he is not a coward in any facet of his career.

And since when is fighting safe cowardly? Sounds smart to be honest. Definitely not even close to the same thing. Even if he could have finished them, still not classified as a cowardly act in my opinion.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

M.C said:


> Obviously people respect anyone for getting in a cage and fight.
> 
> Respect we are talking about is based on the sport. *In a sport where other countless fighters are putting it all on the line, taking the risks to finish guys and go for the kill*, you have GSP who does not. At all. I respect him for his skills, I respect him for working hard, etc etc, but I don't respect him for his fighting style, his complete lack of heart and intent on risking anything because he's afraid of losing, and because of this he puts on boring fights.
> 
> Obviously we are saying respect in the world of the sport, compared to many, many, many other fighters who actually do go in there to put on a show and entertain, to use their skills to finish and put it all on the line, not in general. In general anyone who steps into a cage to fight has respect.


Bolded part - MMA is not just about finishing.
Simple as that.
It seems as tough you/and many others are too obsessed with the finishing part.
And when it's time to compare him to other champions, the only one who people compare him to is Anderson Silva.
Why?! Because he is the only one with such a long reign as a UFC champion.


I won't quote HOGH also, but i agree with him 100%.



M.C said:


> Maia isn't called one of the best fighters in the world, never has been. GSP is. If you CAN'T finish a fight, because your skill level is not up to par with the one you are fighting, then that is okay.


No...but Maia is considered one of the best BJJ fighters in the world - TOP 3 by most, some even call him the best MMA grappler in the world - but he couldn't submit his last 3 opponents.



M.C said:


> GSP (according many) is a P4P great. If you have such an advantage over your opponent (he does), you should finish it. *GSP COULD HAVE finished all those fights*, *he chose not to*, that's the difference. If you can't, okay, if you can but are a coward and choose to not take any risks, then I don't respect you for it nore will I ever.


Like i've said. it's easy to talk when you're watching the fight in front of a TV/computer.

The red bolded part - that is ridiculous.
Why was he throwing big elbows and punches down on Jon Fitch or Thiago Alves?!



M.C said:


> Your Maia comparison falls flat and is irrelevant.


It's not irreleant at all, you just don't want to see it for what it is - especially when talking about the last 3 fights, for both guys.



M.C said:


> If you used another P4P fighter who has *a similar decision rate*, you'd be Going somewhere, but you can't name another P4P with such a terrible finish/decision ratio.


Not P4P again...
But if you insist ---> Frankie Edgar: *9 fights in the UFC - 7 decisions =* *77.77% decision rate* 

And pls Dana White has him as the No. 2 P4P...funny, huh?!
And the majority have him at *No. 4*.



> ...And Frankie Edgar is right there too. I might actually put him at No. 2. This guy is for real. He beat BJ Penn twice, and kicked his ass in their last fight...


Here

No one gives s*it to Frankie though...



M.C said:


> Remember when Anderson went to a decision with Maia and Thales? Everyone was alllll over Anderson for not finishing fighters who were not on his skill level, everyone, cause someone of his skill should be able to finish lower level guys. The difference? Anderson had 2 decisions (not even back to back), and GSP has had 5 of his last 6.
> 
> Give that some thought.


People keep comparing GSP to Anderson, that's the problem.
Let's say i give this P4P some a try.

In the past 3 years, who are the 2 fighters that have been constantly in this ranking?! Anderson and GSP.

Everyone else just dropped from the P4P rankings.
Every year, pretty much new faces. Silva, GSP and........_Fitch_ are the only names that have been in this top in the last 3 years. 

2 boring fighters in the TOP P4P rankings in the last 3 years...hmmm. 

That's gotta mean something.


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## Intermission (Oct 1, 2009)

I enjoy watching GSP fight, you call it boring you can't really be a fan of MMA. How can you not appreciate that he easily beat a guy that is undefeated in his last 15 fights spanning over 6 years?

... with one eye!


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

M.C said:


> How do you get the finish against GSP? GSP is leaps and bounds more skilled than them, which is the point. GSP should have and could have finished most of the people he has fought in his last 10, yet didn't.
> 
> If you can't finish/beat a fighter, there's no shame or issue in it, you simply aren't skilled enough. However, if you are a lot better than a fighter, yet take no interest in putting it all out there and finishing it, and rather fight safe *and decision your opponent 70% of the time*, that's where the issue is.


Ok...sorry MC, but i didn't pay any attention to this, even though i thought something is a bit off.

This post is the 5th or 6th in wich you talk about GSP's 70% decision rate. 

I just went along, but, that just ain't right.
I don't know wgere you got that percentage from, but it clearly doesn't represent what you say it does.

I looked at it from all possible angles, but i don't know where *70%* came from...maybe it's just me being tired.

So, here is my take on GSP's decision rate.
There are 4 angles to look at this situation:

1. calculating his decision rate based on GSP's *overall MMA fight record*: 24 fights - 9 decision wins ---> *37.5% decision rate*

2. calculating his decision rate based on GSP's *overall MMA winning record*: 22 wins - 9 decision wins ---> *40.9% decision rate*

3. calculating his decision rate based on GSP's *UFC fight record*: 18 fights - 9 decision wins ---> *50% decision rate*

4. calculating his decision rate based on GSP's *UFC winning record*: 16 wins - 9 decision wins ---> *56.25% decision rate* - *HIGHEST DECISION RATE*

That's it. I did all possible calculations regarding his decision rate - 9 fights - compared them to his record.....but still i can't seem to figure out where that 70% is coming from.

Sorry...



SideWays222 said:


> The real question is *why these fighters that KNOW they are losing the fight not go in and try to get the finish. Why do they allow themselves to go to a decision knowing what the result is going to be?? *I think people need to talk about that a bit more.


And this...is an awesome question.


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## DonRifle (Jan 18, 2009)

All GSP needs to do is knockout his next opponent! Then all of this talk goes away!

The thing is the fact that this is such a constant debate shows that there is a problem whether fans like it or not. He needs to address it. Next camp he should train with Steven Seagal and learn that f****** kick!!!


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

M.C said:


> *How do you get the finish against GSP?* GSP is leaps and bounds more skilled than them, which is the point. GSP should have and could have finished most of the people he has fought in his last 10, yet didn't.
> 
> If you can't finish/beat a fighter, there's no shame or issue in it, you simply aren't skilled enough. However, if you are a lot better than a fighter, yet take no interest in putting it all out there and finishing it, and rather fight safe and decision your opponent 70% of the time, that's where the issue is.


You GO IN AND BRING IT!! just like they all say they are going to do. Whats the worst that can happen?? You lose the fight? Guess what... that is going to happen anyway atleast this way you will have a punchers chance. For the same reason GSP doesnt go in for the kill is the same reason his opponents dont go in for the kill. The only difference is that GSP will win the fight if it goes the distance and the others wont. I want to see GSP losing the fight and then see if he pushes the finish.

The people getting their asses handed them should be getting bitched at for not trying to WIN the fight. Not GSP.


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## SmackyBear (Feb 14, 2008)

limba said:


> Ok...sorry MC, but i didn't pay any attention to this, even though i thought something is a bit off.
> 
> This post is the 5th or 6th in wich you talk about GSP's 70% decision rate.
> 
> ...


He's only counting his "non finishing rate" in his last 10 fights. Which is in no way the same thing as a decision rate, but I guess cognitive dissonance demands we construct facts around our argument.

Such as GSP saying he limits risks is proof he's a safe fighter, but everyone who thinks that ignores this quote of Anderson that morninglightmt posted:



> “I’m no longer a kid, I have much to lose. It took so long to get here and we, as the age comes, do more conservative fights. I won’t expose myself and be knocked out. I have to be the most efficient possible with any opponent that I fight.”


So either:

1. A fighter admitting they fight safe isn't proof that they won't try to finish fights.

Or

2. A fighter admitting they fight safe is proof that they don't try to finish fights, and Anderson Silva doesn't try to finish fights.

I find it hard to believe anyone believes option two, and yet people kept using GSP's admission as a sign he isn't trying to finish, even after morninglightmt pointed out how irrelevant it was:



M.C said:


> *GSP has stated himself he fights safe and doesn't take risks, it's not a secret or some hidden observation, he himself has said it*, and it shows in his 70% decision rate.





FatFreeMilk said:


> *As others have stated, GSP himself says he doesn't take risks.* This, of course, is going to change his style of fighting and believe it or not many people like to see finishes/aggression etc.





M.C said:


> *GSP doesn't take risks, he's a safe fighter (he says so himself, I have the link to that interview if required)*, and this isn't respected by me and others, as it makes his fights boring, and most importantly makes us sick watching a talented fighter take guys like Josh and Hardy to a decision cause he's afraid of firing his skills off at them.


Or how about GSP not pouncing on Shields and swinging for the fences once he knocks him down? Proof that he lacks killer instinct.

But what about Anderson not pouncing on Forrest and swinging for the fences once he knocks him down? Probably just sticking to the gameplan and keeping the fight where he wants it.

Against GSP, certain words and actions are proof of a preexisting belief. But the same words or actions by Anderson are irrelevant because we don't have a preexisting belief for them to confirm.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

wheres ironman we need him in on this, bottom line is gsp can never lose his title ever by being this decision fighter thats fine for him, but people will look back on him like they do for floyd mayweather an incredibly talented fighter who prefers to take the boring route of points decision winning. 

And your frankie edgar comparision is BS too i already said he doesnt have the physical power to ko people since he is virtually a featherweight at lightweight, he hit penn,sherk,maynard with hard shots that would ko most at fw but he just is not strong enough so he cant help it but he is still going for the finish, he also tries finishing it with tight tight guillotines that are usually very close to making him win an he subbed veach to prove he can finish someone even if it only is by sub. 

And silva, well he is just so good that he plays with his food whenever he wants, but most of the time dont blink because his opponent is drooling or tapping, ask vitor,leben, maia discarded face, sonnen,henderson,griffin,irvin among others. so dont try to compare other great fighters to drag them down with gsp's style.


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## skinnyBIGGS (Jul 2, 2010)

the reason why the dont go all out going into the last round knowing there loosing is because there mentality is depleted , think your a fighter you trained for 6months on a game plan that hasnt dont anything in the fight you cant get any rythme and you just end up lasting instead of fighting. theres different situations where the fighter is gassed but that "why dont they throw down its the final round there loosing already" is all mental .

Nick Diaz will destroy GSP . I see GSP doing a lay n pray . It sucks to have a champion be a decesion winner not all fights can be a finish but come on people we all share the same spectrum of vision we are watching the same fights he clearly has no intention of risking his chin for a finish its soo evident that he cant loose that title its CANADAs meal ticket as well as UFC. 

Think in the Serra defeat. where did the rematch take place? GSP home town wouldnt you think it wouldve been in new jersey it is the NEW CROWNED CHAMP. they have made GSP a poster boy and with machida coming back strong silva still devasting as always Bj Penn that can still finish fighters just needs to find that spark to fight again i beleive he was depleted over the whole GSP greasing BS and any one of us would have lost that fighting spark if you can loose to someone who doesnt cheat but used a performance enhancing material. 

Brock becomes a TUF Coach the UFC really is heading in the shitter and they need to fullfill our super fight requests because how many times must we all drop 50$ for a title fight card that never has a finish no conclusion just 3 peoples opinion on who won and who scored more points...i think there should be No decesions fight until theres a winner , GSP may be a tremendous athelete but i assure you if this rule was in place he would want to end the fight as fast as possible because every fight he would be in would take hrs to conclude!


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

AlphaDawg said:


> lol
> 
> Koscheck has an orbital broken, he's a bum. GSP gets his eye scratched, not his fault for bad performance. Love it.


Wow you ever heard if you got nothing to say dont say anything at all??

Koscheck getting a broken orbital is because he got punched in the face 50 times, GSP got his eye injury due to a single punch in THE EYE BALL...

Lets not waste time comparing those two




skinnyBIGGS said:


> the reason why the dont go all out going into the last round knowing there loosing is because there mentality is depleted , think your a fighter you trained for 6months on a game plan that hasnt dont anything in the fight you cant get any rythme and you just end up lasting instead of fighting. theres different situations where the fighter is gassed but that "why dont they throw down its the final round there loosing already" is all mental .
> 
> *Nick Diaz will destroy GSP* . I see GSP doing a lay n pray . It sucks to have a champion be a decesion winner not all fights can be a finish but come on people we all share the same spectrum of vision we are watching the same fights he clearly has no intention of risking his chin for a finish its soo evident that he cant loose that title its CANADAs meal ticket as well as UFC.
> 
> ...



That was hard to read....


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

skinnyBIGGS said:


> the reason why the dont go all out going into the last round knowing there loosing is because there mentality is depleted , think your a fighter you trained for 6months on a game plan that hasnt dont anything in the fight you cant get any rythme and you just end up lasting instead of fighting. theres different situations where the fighter is gassed but that "why dont they throw down its the final round there loosing already" is all mental .
> 
> Nick Diaz will destroy GSP . I see GSP doing a lay n pray . It sucks to have a champion be a decesion winner not all fights can be a finish but come on people we all share the same spectrum of vision we are watching the same fights he clearly has no intention of risking his chin for a finish its soo evident that he cant loose that title its CANADAs meal ticket as well as UFC.
> 
> ...


Dude....relax...slow down. Breath!!!

And one word: *PUNCTUATION*! Extremelly important... :sarcastic12:

I tried reading it 2 times, but still couldn't manage to fully understand what you were trying to say there.




Machida Karate said:


> That was hard to read....


^^ LOL Painful at some points... :laugh:


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