# Steve Cantwell is a douche



## justmac333 (Dec 11, 2008)

He said he's been waiting so long to break someone's arm in a fight. I understand wanting to win, but going into every fight with the intention of breaking somebody's arm is shit. I think he should be set up against the best light heavy's and just have his arms broken over and over again until he decides he can't take it anymore and quits.


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

I actualyl agree a bit, he was way over zealous about breaking someone's limb


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## UFCFAN33 (May 29, 2006)

So he is a douche because he want's to break an arm in a fight? Uh the guy didn't tap, what do you expect to happen?


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## Wise (Oct 8, 2006)

I would have done the same thing. If youre dumb enough not to tap you get what you deserve. This is fighting not ******* hello kitty island adventure.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Cantwell did nothing wrong.


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## screenamesuck (Jun 29, 2006)

I don't think the problem is that he tried to break the arm, it was him comment after the fight saying he basically was looking forward to breaking someone's arm. I don't care personally


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Already been said but what else can you do? Dude didn't want to tap- end result. :dunno:

Plus fighters say some dumb things immediately after fights.​


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

I don't think it's bad to want to break someone's arm... but I do think it's bad to brag about it right after it happened.

If he just broke it and the guy did tap... then he's a douche.. but since he didn't tap... it's a great time to.. well.. break an arm.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I'll be honest breaking someones arm does seem like something that would be fun as long as you follow the rules.


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## Wise (Oct 8, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> I'll be honest breaking someones arm does seem like something that would be fun as long as you follow the rules.


Hey, thats a nice watch. Let me see your arm for a second.....


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## Terror Kovenant (Nov 16, 2008)

UFCFAN33 said:


> So he is a douche because he want's to break an arm in a fight? Uh the guy didn't tap, what do you expect to happen?


Tap or snap is perfectly fine and he did what he had to do to end the fight but he clearly stated that he had been waiting to purposely break someone's limb and legitimately injure someone and thats not cool. His reaction to it was overboard


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## screenamesuck (Jun 29, 2006)

Walker said:


> Already been said but what else can you do? Dude didn't want to tap- end result. :dunno:
> 
> Plus fighters say some dumb things immediately after fights.​


Yup, not his fault he wouldn't tap, but like I said I think the TS's problem was with the comments he made afterwards


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## UFCFAN33 (May 29, 2006)

Terror Kovenant said:


> Tap or snap is perfectly fine and he did what he had to do to end the fight but he clearly stated that he had been waiting to purposely break someone's limb and legitimately injure someone and thats not cool. His reaction to it was overboard


Meh I don't see anything wrong with it.


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## justmac333 (Dec 11, 2008)

If you go back and watch, he cranked the arm to the side, with the purpose of breaking it, not getting a tap. There have been plenty of opportunities for broken arms in other fights, but most fighters aren't purposely out to do that. If that's his mentality then I would really like to see him go up against those better than him, and for them to purposely try to break his arm. If you want a contrast, Nogueira broke Mir's arm, and reacted much differently.


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## UFCFAN33 (May 29, 2006)

justmac333 said:


> If you go back and watch, he cranked the arm to the side, with the purpose of breaking it, not getting a tap. There have been plenty of opportunities for broken arms in other fights, but most fighters aren't purposely out to do that. If that's his mentality then I would really like to see him go up against those better than him, and for them to purposely try to break his arm. If you want a contrast, Nogueira broke Mir's arm, and reacted much differently.


HE DID NOT TAP! What do you think will happen to an arm with that much pressure being applied? SNAP


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## justmac333 (Dec 11, 2008)

My bad Mir broke Silvia's arm, momentary brain fart.


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## screenamesuck (Jun 29, 2006)

Yeah you can't blame Cantwell for the way the fight ended when his opponent wouldn't tap. He can't stop until the ref ends the fight


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## Walker (May 27, 2007)

screenamesuck said:


> Yup, not his fault he wouldn't tap, but like I said I think the TS's problem was with the comments he made afterwards


Prolly shouldn't have posted I didn't hear the post fight comments- my bad. :thumbsup:​


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

WTF!! Yes he is a douche for SAYING he wanted to break somebody's arm for so long. He's not one for doing it cause it was Razak's fault for not taping but saying he wanted to do it for so long time is unacceptable. Have you guys lost your mind???


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## screenamesuck (Jun 29, 2006)

Hey thats how I look at it also, so i'm in my mind I guess


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## UFCFAN33 (May 29, 2006)

Xerxes said:


> WTF!! Yes he is a douche for SAYING he wanted to break somebody's arm for so long. He's not one for doing it cause it was Razak's fault for not taping but saying he wanted to do it for so long time is unacceptable. Have you guys lost your mind???


LOl, your kidding right?


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## Bonnar426 (Jul 18, 2006)

Cantwell did his job and did it well!


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

How is saying you want to break someone's arm any worse than saying you want to knock someone out? The point of a fight and a way to win is to incapacitate the other fighter.


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## justmac333 (Dec 11, 2008)

Xerxes said:


> WTF!! Yes he is a douche for SAYING he wanted to break somebody's arm for so long. He's not one for doing it cause it was the Razak's fault for not taping but saying he wanted to do that for such a long time is unacceptable. Have you guys lost your mind???


Well luckily BJ Penn doesn't think like that. There would be a lot of people with broken arms. I don't have a problem with someone breaking someone elses arm in MMA, shit happens. Tap or Snap. But being happy about breaking someone's arm and making that a goal in all of your fights is far different.


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## Steph05050 (Jun 4, 2008)

i dont agree...i think he did great...the guy didnt tap what was he supposed to do just stay there with the same pressure while the guy prb would have eventually rolled out..no he put more pressure and got the job done


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## screenamesuck (Jun 29, 2006)

I don't think it is that bad, but I can understand why people would be upset by it. Like I said earlier, I don't really care. Razak should have tapped, he knew he wasn't getting out


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## UFCFAN33 (May 29, 2006)

MLS said:


> How is saying you want to break someone's arm any worse than saying you want to knock someone out? The point of a fight and a way to win is to incapacitate the other fighter.


Exactly!


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

Breaking an arm because someone doesn't tap is one thing, how are you supposed to know where that persons pain threshold is and how much responsibility does the fighter on the receiving end have to tap before it breaks. That being said the comments showed a TOTAL lack of class and respect. Douchebaggery at it's finest.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

I'm not mad at anything he did, other then the way he reacted. He was a bit of a ass right after it happened. Looked right in the camera and said "It snapped" or something. 

He was right for breakin it, but he was wrong for being THAT happy about it lol.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

MLS said:


> How is saying you want to break someone's arm any worse than saying you want to knock someone out? The point of a fight and a way to win is to incapacitate the other fighter.


WOW, it's getting better and better... I can't believe what I'm reading. 

How can you compare a KO and an arm break?? How long does it take to get over a KO and how long for an arm break??


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## e-thug (Jan 18, 2007)

Man, anyone who is arguing that its wrong to want to break someone's arm obviously has never done it!

Its no different from knocking some fool out, if ya dont tapout then that be your problem.

The fact that he has always wanted to do it is perfectly fine, its not like it aint gonna repair itself!


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## justmac333 (Dec 11, 2008)

cplmac said:


> Breaking an arm because someone doesn't tap is one thing, how are you supposed to know where that persons pain threshold is and how much responsibility does the fighter on the receiving end have to tap before it breaks. That being said the comments showed a TOTAL lack of class and respect. Douchebaggery at it's finest.


Exactly this, The respect and class exhibited by some of the fighters is what I think seperates the world of MMA, from backyard brawls.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

cplmac said:


> Breaking an arm because someone doesn't tap is one thing, how are you supposed to know where that persons pain threshold is and how much responsibility does the fighter on the receiving end have to tap before it breaks. *That being said the comments showed a TOTAL lack of class and respect. Douchebaggery at it's finest.*


Exactly, the arm break on its own is far from being as annoying as the comment he made after the fight. Breaking your opponent's arm if he doesnt tap is understandable but *Cantwell's comment afterwards was unacceptable*.

I can't believe I'm arguing over that...


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## e-thug (Jan 18, 2007)

Xerxes said:


> Exactly, the arm break on its own is far from being as annoying as the comment he made after the fight. Breaking your opponent's arm if he doesnt tap is understandable but *Cantwell's comment afterwards was unacceptable*.
> 
> I can't believe I'm arguing over that...


Why???! If the guy doesnt tap then the arm break is just around the corner...Canwell said those comments as this kind of thing RARELY happens. There was no malice behind the comment.


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## justmac333 (Dec 11, 2008)

Xerxes said:


> WTF!! Yes he is a douche for SAYING he wanted to break somebody's arm for so long. He's not one for doing it cause it was Razak's fault for not taping but saying he wanted to do it for so long time is unacceptable. Have you guys lost your mind???


Totally misunderstood this before. You're right.


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

It was kind of distasteful to say. It had nothing to do with the guy not tapping. It had to do with Steve Cantwell wanting to break someones arm for a long time. He's always been a prick; he'll get trashed by any decent fighter.


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

I don't think TS was mad that Cantwell broke his arm, he was more upset about Cantwell's reactions that came afterwards.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

i've never seen a problem with this kind of talk. No one ever faults a guy for saying he's been hoping for a clean KO in his career. Is serious brain trauma that much better than a broken arm?



Xerxes said:


> WOW, it's getting better and better... I can't believe what I'm reading.
> 
> How can you compare a KO and an arm break?? How long does it take to get over a KO and how long for an arm break??


Brain trauma has been linked to life-long brain illnessses. Sure, you might be out of the fight game for a few months, but if you think brain trauma is inconsequential, you should speak to a neurologist


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

HexRei said:


> i've never seen a problem with this kind of talk. No one ever faults a guy for saying he's been hoping for a clean KO in his career. Is serious brain trauma that much better than a broken arm?


Name one UFC fighter with serious brain trauma.

People want clean KO's because it looks great and makes the crowd happy. People that openly admit to wanting to break someones arm's only intention is to hurt the guy. Yeah yeah..it's not ballet blah blah. Still, you get the point.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

e-thug said:


> Why???! If the guy doesnt tap then the arm break is just around the corner...Canwell said those comments as this kind of thing RARELY happens. There was no malice behind the comment.


This thread is not about whether Cantwell should or shouldnt have break his opponent's arm. The other guy didn't tap, he got his arm broken, that's his own fault AGREED. 

This thread is about Cantwell being a douche for saying he was looking forward to breaking someone's arm for a long time. Anybody finding this after fight comment ok his out of his mind.


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Name one UFC fighter with serious brain trauma.


Dave Kaplan


*rimshot*

lol...I joke I joke


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Name one UFC fighter with serious brain trauma.


Ridiculous question considering the age of the UFC. Look at boxers. Brain trauma matters.


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

HexRei said:


> Ridiculous question considering the age of the UFC. Look at boxers. Brain trauma matters.


Age of the UFC? Guys like Ken Shamrock and Dan Severn seem to be doing just fine. In fact, is there any MMA fighter that has serious brain trauma?

Besides, it's not as if people say "I want to cause serious brain trauma."

Wanting to break someones arm is wanting to break someones arm. Wanting to get a highlight reel KO doesn't mean they want to cause serious brain trauma.


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## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Name one UFC fighter with serious brain trauma.


Not the UFC but there was a death at a Gimme 5 event.


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## justmac333 (Dec 11, 2008)

HexRei said:


> Ridiculous question considering the age of the UFC. Look at boxers. Brain trauma matters.


If you don't understand the difference between boxing and MMA when it comes to brain trauma, then you have some research to do. Even just compare it over the life of the UFC, and you'll see glaring differences, both in the amount of brain trauma, and deaths in sanctioned fights.


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

MLS said:


> Not the UFC but there was a death at a Gimme 5 event.


Well again, it's not as if someone that wants a clean KO wants to cause serious brain trauma.


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## e-thug (Jan 18, 2007)

Xerxes said:


> This thread is not about whether Cantwell should or shouldnt have break his opponent's arm. The other guy didn't tap, he got his arm broken, that's his own fault AGREED.
> 
> This thread is about Cantwell being a douche for saying he was looking forward to breaking someone's arm for a long time. Anybody finding this after fight comment ok his out of his mind.


Different strokes for different folks I guess...I didnt see anything distasteful about his comments and apparently took them a different way than yourself.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

e-thug said:


> Different strokes for different folks I guess...I didnt see anything distasteful about his comments and apparently took them a different way than yourself.


Know what it might be? His timing.

He said he wanted to break an opponents arm... basically injure his opponent..

But they're fighting for injured troops. Ironic!


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

HexRei said:


> Brain trauma has been linked to life-long brain illnessses. Sure, you might be out of the fight game for a few months, but if you think brain trauma is inconsequential, you should speak to a neurologist


You don't KO your opponent to give them brain damage do you? Just like you don't submit your opponent to break their arm or leg or worst give them arm or leg damage for life. I'm aware brain damage is "worse" than arm break but saying "I wanted to break somebody's arm for a long time" (by submitting them) in the case of a KO would be like saying "I wanted to give somebody brain damage" (by KOing them). These comments, are not acceptable and shouldn't be part of the sport.


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

I don’t get the macho attitude about never tapping, unless you can power out of a submission, reverse it or weather the storm without getting seriously injured why risk the long recovery (and no paycheck) or even career ending injury just to show you’re a real “warrior?”

Not sure what Cantwell was supposed to do, he wanted to end the fight, should he have “eased off” and possibly loose? If you’re going to fight MMA rules you should think about the implications of “not tapping.”


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## JayDubs911 (May 22, 2008)

HexRei;733300
Brain trauma has been linked to life-long brain illnessses. Sure said:


> ANyone else find it ironic the amount of brain trauma (the guy ben saunders destroyed, yoshida) / body trauma (corey hill al/hassan) followed by talking about TBI. Also i though mankind was gonna say that he suffered from TBI too.
> 
> PS can anyone tell me if getting hit the the jaw can give you a councussion or cause brain injury's ala TBI or muhammed ali and roach???


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Cantwell did nothing wrong.


agreed.

hey ever knocked someone out? you get pumped, adrenaline is running and you end the fight in a split second. possibly damaging the other persons brain or anyone of a hundred things. this is no different, except most submissions people tap out to. you never get that sense of prowess and domination you get with a KO, unless something snaps or you hear a gurgling noise.


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

HexRei said:


> Ridiculous question considering the age of the UFC. Look at boxers. Brain trauma matters.


Apples and oranges, boxers are more susceptible to Parkinsons (punchdrunk) because of the repeated blows to the head, not the power of the blows but the repetition. If Ali was knocked out instead of taking shot after shot he wouldn't be in the shape he is today. A big KO is less likely to damage your brain than a career of going the distance. And lets be clear, a KO is very unlikely to have any long term effects in and of itself, a broken arm can derail a career. 

Again, it's not about the injury in this case it's about the comments. Believe it or not, there is such a thing as right and wrong.


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

JayDubs911 said:


> ANyone else find it ironic the amount of brain trauma (the guy ben saunders destroyed, yoshida) / body trauma (corey hill al/hassan) followed by talking about TBI. Also i though mankind was gonna say that he suffered from TBI too.
> 
> PS can anyone tell me if getting hit the the jaw can give you a councussion or cause brain injury's ala TBI or muhammed ali and roach???


I think being hit in the jaw would cause almost NO cerebral trauma, the jaw is connected to the skull by a joint and some soft tissue, you get KO’ed when you take a shot in the jaw because of a nerve that can send what’s essentially an “off” signal to the brain.

I worry more about blows to the back of the head and knees to the forehead because even though the forehead is the thickest part of the skull, it can still rattle your brain (cause some trauma and even small hemorrhages) and knees are just plain evil.
The bone in your skull is thin at the back and the base of the spine, you are vulnerable to serious injury which is why it’s a no no to strike the back of the head.


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## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

WAR Cantwell!! Ever heard of the saying, tap, snap, or nap?? The dude didnt tap. Its his fault. Im sure every fighter who has ever trained in bjj has wanted to snap sum 1's arm in a fight.


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## kamikaze145 (Oct 3, 2006)

I have to agree with him, it would be pretty cool to snap someone's arm. Only if they refused to tap of course. That guy did not seem to know a lick about the ground game though and I knew he was in trouble as soon as Cantwell passed his guard because the guy was obviously clueless about bjj but I thought he would at least have the sense to tap from a deep armbar but obviously not.


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

I don't think anyone's getting the point of this thread. It's about what he said, not what he did.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I get it Plazz but honestly he didn't tap and snapping someones arm does seem like something that would be awesome unless your opponent taps before you do it.


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## UFCFAN33 (May 29, 2006)

Lol I cant believe this thread made 6 pages! I want to snap everybody's arms! Yea Ive waited soooooo long!


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> I get it Plazz but honestly he didn't tap and snapping someones arm does seem like something that would be awesome unless your opponent taps before you do it.


No... he's not getting at that though. Sure it would be cool (I personally disagree) but we're all mad at his reaction to it. No one on here disagrees with his breaking the arm of Razak.. just how he reacted afterwards.

Dude was cool in my book until he reacted the way he did.. now I want him to fight Rashad Evans.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Spoken812 said:


> No... he's not getting at that though. Sure it would be cool (I personally disagree) but we're all mad at his reaction to it. No one on here disagrees with his breaking the arm of Razak.. just how he reacted afterwards.
> 
> Dude was cool in my book until he reacted the way he did.. now I want him to fight Rashad Evans.





plazzman said:


> I don't think anyone's getting the point of this thread. It's about what he said, not what he did.


Thanks, that's what I've been trying to tell everyone on this thread for 2 hours now.


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## screenamesuck (Jun 29, 2006)

I posted this in another thread by accident lol...



> Ok, this is the last thing I'm going to say on this topic
> 
> What Cantwell did was fine, he did nothing wrong. Razak didn't tap and the ref didn't stop it so he did what he had to do.
> 
> What Cantwell said can be looked at in a negative way. Saying you are going to KO or choke someone out is fine. Breaking bones can affect a fighters career and admitting to wanting to do that is just not right. You are there to win, not to end someones career. Of course a broken arm will heal, but you never know what kind of long term damage you can do with a break


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

lol. It's a fight. *I want to smash your face, knock you out, snap your arm, choke you out, put you to sleep!!*

If any above comment offends you.........go watch WWE crybaby. BTW, WWE probably has more offensive comments towards opponents....or opponents so to speak.


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## e-thug (Jan 18, 2007)

J.P. said:


> lol. It's a fight. *I want to smash your face, knock you out, snap your arm, choke you out, put you to sleep!!*
> 
> If any above comment offends you.........go watch WWE crybaby. BTW, WWE probably has more offensive comments towards opponents....or opponents so to speak.


Well played sir.


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## UFCFAN33 (May 29, 2006)

J.P. said:


> lol. It's a fight. *I want to smash your face, knock you out, snap your arm, choke you out, put you to sleep!!*
> 
> If any above comment offends you.........go watch WWE crybaby. BTW, WWE probably has more offensive comments towards opponents....or opponents so to speak.


Yes! I am sure many of other fighters have said something similar to what Cantwell said after their fight. I don't know why some people are focusing on this guy so much. And did you every think it might be part of his game plan. By that I mean intimidating other fighters.


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## screenamesuck (Jun 29, 2006)

Hey I don't care what people say really, I'm just trying to point out what the TS was trying to say. Prefight trash talk is expected, but after the fight is over and saying you have been looking forward to breaking someones arm is a little disturbing considering these guys are professionals and know that breaks can put a person out of commission for a long time. Like I said though I don't care what they say really, I just like to watch the fight


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

screenamesuck said:


> Hey I don't care what people say really, I'm just trying to point out what the TS was trying to say. Prefight trash talk is expected, but after the fight is over and saying you have been looking forward to breaking someones arm is a little disturbing considering these guys are professionals and know that breaks can put a person out of commission for a long time. Like I said though I don't care what they say really, I just like to watch the fight



It is for the most part bravado. But if in fact some of these guys like to hurt other people, than how can we be surprised, fighting is all about hurting the other guy.

I am truley fasinated by the OPs sensitve mannerisms on a sport which is based on physical violence.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

he may have said that but he obviously didn't. He gave plenty of room for the guy to tap. He could have easily snapped that arm back and broken it right away if it was really his goal. He gradually increased pressure until it snapped. It was textbook actually.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Let us all hate KO artists for not throwing pitty pat punches. lol.


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## aimres (Oct 16, 2006)

The statement got you to react and he earned an extra 30 grand.
*Well Done Steve. Mission Accomplished.*


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

This is dumb. Is everyone here expecting me to believe that they didn't watch mir vs sylvia and think "damn, that would be cool?". I know I did. His own personal feelings on enjoying it don't make him a douche.

What if kos had said, immediately after his ko tonight, "damn, I always wanted to knock a guy completely unconscious like that." Would that make him a douche? Because I bet you Kos was thinking that all the way home. Had he purposefully broken the guys arm when he was trying to tap, then said it afterwards, then he'd be a douchebag.

This conversation is stupid. I'm done here.


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## justmac333 (Dec 11, 2008)

What did he get an extra 30 grand for?


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## A1yola06 (Jan 5, 2007)

justmac333 said:


> He said he's been waiting so long to break someone's arm in a fight. I understand wanting to win, but going into every fight with the intention of breaking somebody's arm is shit. I think he should be set up against the best light heavy's and just have his arms broken over and over again until he decides he can't take it anymore and quits.


I agree what a d-bag, I hope someone breaks his jaw. Did he really just say "all glory to god" an then saying how it was "so sweet" that he broke dudes arm?


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

My god, you guys STILL don't get it.

It was no ones fault that Hassan's arm broke. Cantwell did what he had to do to win the fight, and Razzak was trying his best to escape. Saying "Duh have you ever heard of Tap nap or snap!112" is stupid cause just because someone slaps a sub on you, doesn't mean you should immediatly tap, obviously you can escape.

What the TS is trying to say is that he found what Cantwell said AFTER the fight to be douchey.

And don't try and compare this to KOing someone or putting them to sleep, thats a meanse of winning, breaking someone's limb is not, and that's what he said he's wanted to do for a long time.

You don't train to break limbs, you train to KO or sub people.

What Cantwell said is like saying "Gosh, I've been dying to pop someones ACL after a tackle" in Football.

Stop trying to play it off as trash talk.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Miguel Torress said in his pre fight interview previous to the Tapia fight......"I don't train to finish fights, I train to punish fighters"

What a jerk he is too.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

I personally thought he is a total piece of shit for commenting how he did. Not only did it not look like he cared that he broke the guys arm, the comments he said after "thats totally sweet dude, iv been waiting to do that for such a long time" totally bother me. He is a piece of shit and had no remorse about what he just did. The guy didnt tap out sure and i dont blame cantwell for breaking his arm, but to be happy you did??? your an asshole and deserve to have ur career ended by someone.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

plazzman said:


> My god, you guys STILL don't get it.
> 
> It was no ones fault that Hassan's arm broke. Cantwell did what he had to do to win the fight, and Razzak was trying his best to escape. Saying "Duh have you ever heard of Tap nap or snap!112" is stupid cause just because someone slaps a sub on you, doesn't mean you should immediatly tap, obviously you can escape.
> 
> ...





UFC profile said:


> Favorite grappling technique: Nothing in particular, but I do prefer to break something rather than putting someone to sleep.


I guess it's just old news to me because I read this as soon as it was posted on his UFC profile.

If he thinks it's cool to break people's bones I don't really care. It's not like he just yanked the armbar and broke it recklessly. Despite the fact that he may enjoy it he didn't just recklessly break the guy's arm. He did exhibit the self control that outweighs his comments to me.


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## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

frank mir said he wanted to rip the skin off of brock's face.....


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

And let's not forget Ken Slamcock was going to knock Tito's hair black.

Point taken.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

plazzman said:


> My god, you guys STILL don't get it.
> 
> It was no ones fault that Hassan's arm broke. Cantwell did what he had to do to win the fight, and Razzak was trying his best to escape. Saying "Duh have you ever heard of Tap nap or snap!112" is stupid cause just because someone slaps a sub on you, doesn't mean you should immediatly tap, obviously you can escape.
> 
> ...


I'm sure every time he puts someone in an arm bar, he thinks, "God, I wish they would just not tap." Makes perfect sense to me.

Kind of like, "Isn't it awesome, I hit him so hard I broke his jaw." 

I knew I was going to come on here and have a bunch of people calling him out for saying what a ton of people think. 

We need to start calling out every fighter that says prefight "I'm going to break his jaw"(Pulver), "I'm going to snap his arm"(numerous people), "I'm going to knock him unconscious" (numerous people), because they are simply saying the same thing, before the fight.

It is the same thing. To think, "I want to break the arm of a guy that doesn't tap", and "I want to break the jaw of a guy with a weak chin" is the same thing. It is thinking that it would be cool to thoroughly display your skills over your opponent.

If you guys think that nobody else out there thinks these kinds of things, then you should stay home because you are as gullible as it gets.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Let's take a step around this sensitive nature that people are having here. BTW your politically correct behavior is not only nice but it is also sweet. So you win on both sides.

If a fighter says, "I want to end his carreer" than we all ignore this. Even though an end to a carreer is very crucial. More so than a broken bone.

I think that people are taking this to the heart. And that if boy didn't tap than, tap or snap.

This is a combat sport, Cantwell is obviously versed in joint locks. The joint lock is made to put pressure on the bone until the opponent taps or until the joint snaps. If the opponent does not tap, than his arm gets broken. If Cantwell has wanted to test this theory what makes him a bad guy for it?


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

SideWays222 said:


> I personally thought he is a total piece of shit for commenting how he did. Not only did it not look like he cared that he broke the guys arm, the comments he said after "thats totally sweet dude, iv been waiting to do that for such a long time" totally bother me. He is a piece of shit and had no remorse about what he just did. The guy didnt tap out sure and i dont blame cantwell for breaking his arm, but to be happy you did??? your an asshole and deserve to have ur career ended by someone.


Quoted for truth. 

And you're right about his "no remorse" feeling, it wasn't just stupid trash talking, the dude didn't give a damn about what happened and was actually happy of what he's just done. I bet he was even happier to snap his opponent's arm than actually winning the fight. Pathetic.. Even more pathetic people on this forum are defending this kind of attitude. MMA doesn't need this kind of **** mentality. How can people on this thread defend what Cantwell *said* afterwards?? (and *not did* for goodness sake)


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

Davisty69 said:


> I'm sure every time he puts someone in an arm bar, he thinks, "God, I wish they would just not tap." Makes perfect sense to me.
> 
> Kind of like, "Isn't it awesome, I hit him so hard I broke his jaw."
> 
> ...


Once again, that's pre-fight trash talk.

And again, knocking someone out is not the same as breaking their arm.

Nobody said Cantwell did it on purpose, and it's stupid to say Hassan deserved it cause he didn't tap.

What the OP is trying to say it is that Cantwell said it *AFTER* Hassan's arm got broken. Meaning he enjoys it when people's limbs get broken.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Yikes! conflicting opinions!


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## screenamesuck (Jun 29, 2006)

I give up on this topic, people obviously get prefight trashtalk confused with the postfight interviews. Trashtalk is just what fighter do to build up the fight and get into their opponents head. People normally say they wanna break something before the fight happens, but once they are in the cage they don't normally want to break a persons bones lol, but Cantwell really seems to look forward to it. Hey I still like him anyways lol


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

Wait a sec.. off topic.. but did the UFC do this on purpose?

On a card fighting for troops.. they bring in a guy with a muslim name.. Sounds fishy...

BTW he did get booed hardcore.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Spoken812 said:


> Wait a sec.. off topic.. but did the UFC do this on purpose?
> 
> On a card fighting for troops.. they bring in a guy with a muslim name.. Sounds fishy...
> 
> BTW he did get booed hardcore.


that's what I said the day the card was posted on here! Go back and check it!.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

plazzman said:


> Once again, that's pre-fight trash talk.
> 
> And again, knocking someone out is not the same as breaking their arm.
> 
> ...


You don't need to bold things to make yourself feel important. I can read perfectly well and read your previous post. I just disagree. 

People that say these things before are thinking them. Therefore, they are doing the same thing as Cantwell only they feel it is disrespectful to say it right afterwards.

If you are calling him a douche because he was disrespectful to say it, and not because what he said was the truth, then I guess we agree to a certain degree.

However, as I've written previously, if you think that he is the only one that thinks this you are naive. I'm sure a lot do, he just said it afterwards. If being inconsiderate for saying it immediately following the act is what you are calling him out for, then fine.

Also, Bragging because you broke another fighters nose/jaw/arm from a kick, *is* the same thing. They are both bragging because they damaged another fighter. There is no difference.



screenamesuck said:


> I give up on this topic, people obviously get prefight trashtalk confused with the postfight interviews. Trashtalk is just what fighter do to build up the fight and get into their opponents head. People normally say they wanna break something before the fight happens, but once they are in the cage they don't normally want to break a persons bones lol,* but Cantwell really seems to look forward to it.* Hey I still like him anyways lol


If he really looked forward to it, as you make it seem, then he probably would have broken the arms of both richie hightower and Mike Ashford who he also finished by armbar. I think it was simply one of those things where you think about it during training, wonder if it will ever happen, and when it does, it surprises you.


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## cezwan (Dec 7, 2007)

ok.

1. Trash talking before a fight and saying "i have been wanting to break someones arm" blah blah blah.. are two different things
2. After a fight, if there is no animosity between fighters (for example, Wanderlei and Rampage), they should show respect for each other.
3. if you seriously injure an opponent, rubbing salt in their wound by saying stuff like that is just wrong..

Cantwell was out of line in this situation.



Davisty69 said:


> You don't need to bold things to make yourself feel important. I can read perfectly well and read your previous post. I just disagree.
> 
> People that say these things before are thinking them. Therefore, they are doing the same thing as Cantwell only they feel it is disrespectful to say it right afterwards.
> 
> ...


dude, building up a fight so that people will actually watch the fight and actually bragging about it after are two totally different things..

sherk vs penn was hyped and they showed respect for each other

ortiz and shamrock the same

people trash talk before a fight so it gets people talking. seriously injuring someone is something else..


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Ok for the pre-fight trash talking to sell fights or for whatever reason but MMArtists are also the sport's spokesmen and must show a good image of MMA to the general public. MMA's suffering enough for being perceived as a brutal and violent sport by the general public and by the politicians for a douche bag like Cantwell (or anyone else) to snap his opponent's arm and afterwards clearly express pride and happiness about it in front of millions of viewers on ***ING NATIONAL TV! Do you guys want to give more arguments to the public to hate and reject MMA and to the politicians to (God forbid) ban it again? Damn be a bit smarter and don't support this kind of douchey attitude, it's not good for MMA and will never be.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Davisty69 said:


> Also, Bragging because you broke another fighters nose/jaw/arm from a kick, is the same thing. They are both bragging because they damaged another fighter. There is no difference.


I was with you until here. Among strikers damage accumulated is a gauge of your power where as anyone can have a guy in an armbar, drive their hips and rip back breaking an arm. Getting a locked in arm bar is the part that takes the skill and strength, not breaking the bone/joint.

Hell I'm still with you, just not on this particular point the way you worded it.


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

Davisty69 said:


> You don't need to bold things to make yourself feel important. I can read perfectly well and read your previous post. I just disagree.
> 
> People that say these things before are thinking them. Therefore, they are doing the same thing as Cantwell only they feel it is disrespectful to say it right afterwards.
> 
> ...


It's called emphasis, perhaps I should bolden that for you as well.

I don't really know why you're arguing against such an opinion as this as you are right now. I think he's a douche for saying, why is it your problem? Did anyone call you a douche?

I think he's a douche because he said he's been waiting for a broken limb for a while now.

Again, and maybe I should bolden this part too, but KO's are not the same as broken limbs. A KO is in the criteria of finishing a fight, do fighters train to submit people, or do they train to break limbs?

People are always making threads about how MMA is trying to be a legit sport, then you have someone come in and be happy about breaking a limb. That to me isn't a very nice message we want to convey as MMA proponents. 

Do you think it would have been ok for a Hockey player to be happy that he hurt his opponent after a check, or a Football player to jump for joy after breaking the other dudes leg after a tackle? 



> If he really looked forward to it, as you make it seem, then he probably would have broken the arms of both richie hightower and Mike Ashford who he also finished by armbar. I think it was simply one of those things where you think about it during training, wonder if it will ever happen, and when it does, it surprises you.


Did I say he was looking forward to it, and had intent to do it? Or did I say I thought it was wrong of him to be happy after it happened?



> However, as I've written previously, if you think that he is the only one that thinks this you are naive. I'm sure a lot do, he just said it afterwards.


I don't know why you keep bringing this up. If more fighters would have said it, then I would have called them douches too, but I don't know what this has anything to do with this argument.


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

Everyone should listen to Plazzman. He's right again.
Mixed Martial Arts. 



Wiki"Martial Arts" said:


> In addition, some martial arts are linked to spiritual or religious beliefs/philosophies such as Buddhism, Daoism, Confucianism or Shinto while others have their own spiritual or non-spiritual code of honour.



Cantwell is a douche.

Sucks for Razak, but will we really miss him. He looked awful.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

plazzman said:


> People are always making threads about how MMA is trying to be a legit sport, then you have someone come in and be happy about breaking a limb. That to me isn't a very nice message we want to convey as MMA proponents.


Quoted for truth!


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

plazzman said:


> People are always making threads about how MMA is trying to be a legit sport, then you have someone come in and be happy about breaking a limb. That to me isn't a very nice message we want to convey as MMA proponents.


Agreed, then you have the same people whining and wondering why MMA isn't in the Olympics...

Exactly my point here:


> Ok for the pre-fight trash talking to sell fights or for whatever reason but MMArtists are also the sport's spokesmen and must show a good image of MMA to the general public.
> 
> MMA's suffering enough for being perceived as a brutal and violent sport by the general public and by the politicians for a douche bag like Cantwell (or anyone else) to snap his opponent's arm and afterwards clearly express pride and happiness about it in front of millions of viewers on ***ING NATIONAL TV!
> 
> Do you guys want to give more arguments to the public to hate and reject MMA and to the politicians to (God forbid) ban it again? Damn be a bit smarter and don't support this kind of douchey attitude, it's not good for MMA and will never be.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Havent seen the fight but judging from the thread it was justified (sans post fight remarks)... want to see it now though. And I've siad it before, it's no different than trying to knock someone out to me. It's dudes fault for not tapping.


QUICKEDIT


$20 says he's fired for those remarks btw


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Wise said:


> I would have done the same thing. If youre dumb enough not to tap you get what you deserve. This is fighting not ******* hello kitty island adventure.


ROFLZ...he said "hello kitty island adventure..." that's hilarious. Gotta say no big names tonight, but all the fights were ferocious! Think UFC management told all the fighters to put on a SHOW for the troops!


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Watched the fight. Totally think it was justified. Guy had forever to tap. Shouldnt have opened his mouth about ti though


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

TraMaI said:


> *Watched the fight. Totally think it was justified. Guy had forever to tap.* Shouldnt have opened his mouth about ti though


Noone's debating over that on this thread, we all agree the arm break was Razak's fault.


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## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

Ehh, I wouldn't say it's all Razzak's fault either. I mean, he was actively trying to escape. Sure, he should have gauged the tension on his arm better, but it's not like he laid there and let Cantwell just snap his arm.

But that's not the point.


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## cormacraig (Oct 27, 2008)

He sure is a douche. He broke the arm, okay, it was witin the rules, but what's he so happy about?


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## TheGamefather (Sep 8, 2008)

UFCFAN33 said:


> So he is a douche because he want's to break an arm in a fight? Uh the guy didn't tap, what do you expect to happen?


He still shouldn't "want" to break someones arm. I agree that people like him need to find out what its like to be on the other side of the stick.



UFCFAN33 said:


> Yes! I am sure many of other fighters have said something similar to what Cantwell said after their fight. I don't know why some people are focusing on this guy so much. And did you every think it might be part of his game plan. By that I mean intimidating other fighters.


It was the sheer joy the guy was experienceing at the idea of breaking someones arm. I think he's messed up. And no it wasn't gameplan I dont think, he was loosing it like it was Christmas morning.


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## khanh007 (Jan 9, 2007)

Xerxes said:


> WTF!! Yes he is a douche for SAYING he wanted to break somebody's arm for so long. He's not one for doing it cause it was Razak's fault for not taping but saying he wanted to do it for so long time is unacceptable. Have you guys lost your mind???


No kidding... Some of the people on here are douche bags for not understanding that what he said afterwards was not cool.

Any normal person would see this...

The breakage was deserved since he didn't tap. The comments afterwards = douche


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## Tripod87 (Dec 30, 2007)

Meh, I see why everyone thinks he's a douche, but honestly, in the heat of just winning a fight and in front of so many people for the UFC and with so much adrenaline, fighters (and just people in general) say stupid things a lot of times. Especially with the pressure of Rogan just throwing the mic in your face and you're forced to just improv and say something, it could very well be the case that something retarded just slipped out.

Until he shows me more proof of douchebaggedness, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now. Although I will say it was one dumb thing to say.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Definitely a douchebaggy thing for Cantwell to say that.. hope he gets his arm broken in his next fight, even if he taps.


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## SpoKen (Apr 28, 2007)

Tripod87 said:


> Meh, I see why everyone thinks he's a douche, but honestly, in the heat of just winning a fight and in front of so many people for the UFC and with so much adrenaline, fighters (and just people in general) say stupid things a lot of times. Especially with the pressure of Rogan just throwing the mic in your face and you're forced to just improv and say something, it could very well be the case that something retarded just slipped out.
> 
> Until he shows me more proof of douchebaggedness, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now. Although I will say it was one dumb thing to say.


Post fight interviews up on UFC.com. Said the exact same thing..

DOUCHE!


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

Post fight

Cantwell: "I've been waiting to break an arm for 5 1/2 years"

What a c*nt. 

I hope Wanderlei introduces him to the **** choke.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Verbatim what he said post-fight:


> Pretty sweet, I wanted to break an arm for 5 and a half years and finally got my shot, it's awesome man..


What a f***ing douche bag, I hope he could get penalized for this.


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## cormacraig (Oct 27, 2008)

Five and a half years? Nice thing he was counting. Yeah, so much for the "post-fight heat" theory. Shmuck.


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## Tripod87 (Dec 30, 2007)

Spoken812 said:


> Post fight interviews up on UFC.com. Said the exact same thing..
> 
> DOUCHE!


Was unaware.

...Yeah, he's a douche.


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Even before the comment he made i thought he was a douch. As soon as he got up and was just screaming in joy and like 30 seconds later he still did not go and check out on the guy. I was just thinking to myself "does he know what he just did?? how come his not seeing if he is ok". Later the made those comments and it just got cemented the vibe i was getting off him. Total d bag who i think deserves to get his arm broken next fight.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

I didnt know he didint check on him or anything... I recant m previous statement. He needs to be fired


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

The TS needs to start a new thread dedicated to people who want to retract their comments in this thread.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

RushFan said:


> The TS needs to start a new thread dedicated to people who want to retract their comments in this thread.


lmao, surprisingly you don't hear them anymore on this thread do u? I'm starting to worry, what happened to them?


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## sk double i (Apr 13, 2007)

There is nothing wrong with saying you want to break someone's arm to hype a fight or actually doing it if the other guy does not tap. 

But Cantwell's disgusting comments towards his opponent afterwards was disrespectful and tasteless. To say that you always wanted to break someone's arm in a fight in a post fight interview not only made a mockery of the sport, but he also made himself look like a fool. I have lost all respect for Steve Cantwell as a fighter and as a person


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

I kind of see where Cantwell is coming from because when you obviously have a guy in a bad submission that he can't get out of and doesn't tap... even after you broke his arm, is just pure disrepsect to your BJJ skillset.

Even after his arm was broken, he didn't tap. It was something that could have been prevent from a simple tap and his elbow would've been a little sore and stretched.

Cantwell saying he has always wanted to break an arm was pretty funny in my opinion. Who hasn't wanted to break anyone's bone before? If you do, it's almost always because the other guy wouldn't tap. If your opponent can't respect your submission game and tap, then you keep going til it's stopped.


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

RushFan said:


> Post fight
> 
> Cantwell: "I've been waiting to break an arm for 5 1/2 years"
> 
> ...


This pretty much shut up everyone. The dude was not a douche for me until I read this.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

I really don't get it. This is MMA. We got guys taking hundreds of knees to the head, having a watermelon sized lump on their forhead, someone who is KTFO by two punches and isn't even conscious after the winner is declared, guys with gashes on their head where you can see their skull, guys with their heads nearly kicked off, guys with blood squirting a couple feet into the air, etc. etc. yet when a guy breaks another guys arms for not tapping and then saying he couldn't wait to do it, is complete hypocrisy.

Most MMA/BJJ practioners would know that when he said that (atleast for most) he couldn't wait because if you break someones bone in a submission, it's because that guy has disrespected your ground game and will not tap/give up. It's complete disrepsect and stupidity to not tap when you know you are stuck and can't get out. If you say you couldn't wait to do that, it's because the guy that you do it to deserves it. Tap and it won't happen. Ever see what Royce Gracie use to do?


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## Chrisl972 (Oct 5, 2006)

Well, I read about 2/3 of this thread and I'm really shocked at some of the comments from good members. 

How can you really defend a guy that breaks an arm (yes, he didn't tap and arms do break sometimes), then talks about how he's been wanting to do that for 5 1/2 years?? 

That was a nasty snap. There's no way for anyone to know at this point how much damage was done. There really is a chance that we might have watched the end of a fighter's career last night. 

I found his comments embarrassing as a true fan of the sport. It was classless and barbaric. 

On my way into work this morning, I was listening to the radio and they were doing the sports report, and for a second, I thought it would be really nice if they gave a recap of the Fight For The Troops last night. But then I remembered about the arm breaking and the comments that Cantwell made and how horrible that would be talked about. It wouldn't be a shining moment in a fighter's career being highlighted in the national spotlight, it would be one more reason for people to think that this isn't a sport, but back to the human cockfighting that it used to be. 

There's nothing wrong with trash talking before a fight, but one of the things that I love most about this sport is the esteem and respect that they show each other after the fight. Cantwell failed in that, and he failed miserably.

I even read comments about how if we don't like watching arms getting broken, that we should go watch WWE or something to that effect. I think that is about as ass backwards of a statement I've seen in a long time. 

Cantwell has just dropped off the map in my book.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

Chrisl972 said:


> Well, I read about 2/3 of this thread and I'm really shocked at some of the comments from good members.
> 
> How can you really defend a guy that breaks an arm (yes, he didn't tap and arms do break sometimes), then talks about how he's been wanting to do that for 5 1/2 years??
> 
> ...


I guess it's a thing with BJJ practioners. If you break someone's bone, it's because they didn't tap.

I definately would not have said anything how I've always wanted to break someone's bone in a fight in the post fight interview, but when you break someone's bone, it's because that person disrespected your ground game and for the most part, you think they deserve it since they would not tap.

It's not like this is the worst thing we have seen in MMA. Atleast he wasn't licking blood off his opponent or his gloves lol. (BJ!)


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## Chrisl972 (Oct 5, 2006)

milkkid291 said:


> I guess it's a thing with BJJ practioners. If you break someone's bone, it's because they didn't tap.
> 
> I definately would not have said anything how I've always wanted to break someone's bone in a fight in the post fight interview, but when you break someone's bone, it's because that person disrespected your ground game and for the most part, you think they deserve it since they would not tap.
> 
> It's not like this is the worst thing we have seen in MMA. Atleast he wasn't licking blood off his opponent or his gloves lol. (BJ!)


I don't remember the interview saying that he's been waiting for 5 1/2 years for someone to disrespect his BJJ. :confused02:


And as far as the licking the blood, that at least seems to be like a taking the soul of the beaten fighter. Almost a ritualistic occurrence.


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## sk double i (Apr 13, 2007)

milkkid291 said:


> Most MMA/BJJ practioners would know that when he said that (atleast for most) he couldn't wait because if you break someones bone in a submission, it's because that guy has disrespected your ground game and will not tap/give up.  It's complete disrepsect and stupidity to not tap when you know you are stuck and can't get out. If you say you couldn't wait to do that, it's because the guy that you do it to deserves it. Tap and it won't happen. Ever see what Royce Gracie use to do?


are you an MMA/BJJ practitioner?

If so, you should know a little about respect. I think it's more disrespectful to break someone's arm and boast about it afterwards than not respecting someone's ground game...

Also, if you learn BJJ to break someone's arm, you're in it for the wrong reason.


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## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

plazzman said:


> My god, you guys STILL don't get it.
> 
> It was no ones fault that Hassan's arm broke. Cantwell did what he had to do to win the fight, and Razzak was trying his best to escape. Saying "Duh have you ever heard of Tap nap or snap!112" is stupid cause just because someone slaps a sub on you, doesn't mean you should immediatly tap, obviously you can escape.
> 
> ...


I gave up trying to get through these simple minded meatheads about 6 pages ago. While you're absolutely right, it hasen't put a dent in this argument simply because people aren't willing to accept logic and what you're saying. They'd rather change the argument to something that's completely irrelevant like "it wasn't his fault he broke his arm!1!"


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

Chrisl972 said:


> I don't remember the interview saying that he's been waiting for 5 1/2 years for someone to disrespect his BJJ. :confused02:
> 
> 
> And as far as the licking the blood, that at least seems to be like a taking the soul of the beaten fighter. Almost a ritualistic occurrence.


Whatever Steve Cantwell said post interview was stupid of him because of how people would take it. I really don't know his true intentions, but from my experience, when you break someone's bone it's because that person allowed you to carry of the main purpose of that move... such as the armbar which is to break someone's arm. Cantwell did what all BJJ practioners are trained to do and that is to not stopped until your opponent taps or the ref stops you.

When he said he couldn't wait to break someone's bone, how I took it is that he couldn't wait because when you break someone's bone, it's because the disrespected your ground game and deserved it for allowing the main purpose of that move to be carried out. Who really knows why he couldn't wait and if that is the main purpose, but this is a combat sport and the moves that MMA fighters are doing have a purpose to them and the armbar's purpose if to break your arm. Having it happen is rare because most people are smart enough to tap.

I just don't see how people are getting so worked up about his comments when people like Rashad and Houston who knock someone cold out in a clear fashion, will still punch the guy until he is stopped by the ref. Or licking blood off your gloves. I see no problem with it, but adrenalin has a lot to do with it and it just happens when you start carrying out moves that have purposes behind them and when those purposes are met, you get real excited and have a rush when it does.



sk double i said:


> are you an MMA/BJJ practitioner?
> 
> If so, you should know a little about respect. I think it's more disrespectful to break someone's arm and boast about it afterwards than not respecting someone's ground game...
> 
> Also, if you learn BJJ to break someone's arm, you're in it for the wrong reason.


It's respectful to not break someone's bone when they tap. If they don't tap... then you do what you are trained to do. An armbar isn't a move to put pressure on somone's arm to cause pain, but the break it. Ask Frank Mir what the main purpose of an armbar is. 

Yes, I do train MMA. I have been for many years now and I also train in Karate. I know what respect is and in a competition when you are doing moves where the main purpose is to break a bone, that is what happens when the move is allowed to go through 100% and the opponent doesn't tap.

EDIT: Plazz, you do train to break limbs. Not sure if you have had any BJJ masters teach you, but they don't teach you to just slap a sub on, they teach you to break a limb unless the opponent taps.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

Yea I am pretty shocked at the people defending this douche bag.

Anyone who has ever trained in any kind of discipline knows to show respect to your opponent.

Razak is in MMA for the same reason Cantwell is, it is his career. And now it could possibly be over. And like Plazzman said, I'm sure Razzak wasn't "letting" Cantwell break his arm, he probably just honestly thought he could get out of it. Sucks for him, but he wanted to win too. And that is so far away from the point anyway.

Like others have stated a million times, I don't blame Cantwell even a fraction of a percentage for breaking his arm. The problem lies within showing absolutely no class whatsoever about a fellow MMA fighter who is lying on the mat with a broken bone.

It's not like these guys have some sort of histroy with each other and have any legitimate reason to hate the other so much to the point that they are happy that they could have possibly ended the others career.

I hope some of you guys realize how dumb you sounded in this thread. This was probably the most frustrating thread I've ever had to read through.

I think some of us need to look up the word "submit" in the dictionary. You know, as in "submission", the entire basis around BJJ. Like someone else said, and they were dead on, if you're in BJJ to learn how to break someones arm, your in it for the wrong reason. That's not what BJJ is about. But again, to clarify once more, that doesn't mean Cantwell is a douche for actually breaking his arm.


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## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

justmac333 said:


> If you go back and watch, he cranked the arm to the side, with the purpose of breaking it, not getting a tap. There have been plenty of opportunities for broken arms in other fights, but most fighters aren't purposely out to do that. If that's his mentality then I would really like to see him go up against those better than him, and for them to purposely try to break his arm. If you want a contrast, Nogueira broke Mir's arm, and reacted much differently.





justmac333 said:


> My bad Mir broke Silvia's arm, momentary brain fart.


Mir didn't react differently. He still brags about breaking Sylvia's arm and thinks it made him a badass.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

I'm defending the guy because I know for a fact that when our BJJ master teaches you a move, he does't tell you to half-ass it, he tells you to go all the way 100%. Many of these moves purposes is to break limbs and that's what you do.

BUT, many fighters tap when they know they are in a serious situation with a sub. This guy didn't and he had his arm broke. 

It's like telling a Knight back in Medieval times to not use the full potential of his sword fighting skills and to not kill your enemy, but just hurt him and see if he quits.

Obviously, many people in this thread haven't been under a BJJ black belt master who teaches you these moves.

You are tought to go 100% or stop when your opponent taps.

Razak's career won't be over. Tim Sylvia's career wasn't over. If you don't want to be in sport were broken limbs are caution, Subs or just hitting, then you shouldn't be in the sport in the first place.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

MJB23 said:


> Mir didn't react differently. He still brags about breaking Sylvia's arm and thinks it made him a badass.


Yea, and he's somewhat of a douche too. Only difference is he can say that now knowing full well that the break didn't **** Tim up so bad that he couldn't fight the same anymore. The same can't be said in the situation at hand...yet. In other words, Cantwell is bragging waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too soon.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

The thing is, BJJ practioners are TAUGHT to break limbs. They aren't taught an armbar to put pressure on someone's arm. They are taught to break it unless the opponent taps.

If you don't want your limbs getting broken, tap or don't be in sport where you can get messed up in thousands of ways.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

milkkid291 said:


> I'm defending the guy because I know for a fact that when our BJJ master teaches you a move, he does't tell you to half-ass it, he tells you to go all the way 100%. Many of these moves purposes is to break limbs and that's what you do.
> 
> BUT, many fighters tap when they know they are in a serious situation with a sub. This guy didn't and he had his arm broke.
> 
> ...


Yes, you are right. Unfortunately your still not getting it. No offense. You are taught to go 100% or stop when he taps, *BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN ITS COOL TO SNAP SOMEONE'S LIMB IN A LEGIT COMPETITION. IN A STREET FIGHT MAYBE BUT THIS IS A SPORT. YES, IT HAPPENS, AND YES IT WAS TOTALLY WITHIN REASON FOR CANTWELL TO DO IT, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN HE SHOULD BE ELATED ABOUT IT. AT THE VERY LEAST HE SHOULDA KEPT THAT SHIT TO HIMSELF.* (wow, I feel important after bolding those words  )

In football you are taught to go 100% on tackles, the whole point of tackling is to hurt the other guy and knock him down. But that doesn't make it cool when the dude's leg breaks or his ribs get smashed or something.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> Yes, you are right. Unfortunately your still not getting it. No offense. You are taught to go 100% or stop when he taps, *BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN ITS COOL TO SNAP SOMEONE'S LIMB IN A LEGIT COMPETITION. IN A STREET FIGHT MAYBE BUT THIS IS A SPORT.* (wow, I feel important after bolding those words  )
> 
> In football you are taught to go 100% on tackles, but that doesn't make it cool when the dude's leg breaks or his ribs get smashed or something.


The limb won't be broken if the guy taps. Most people tap.

Some fighters obviously don't tap when they are caught, so if Cantwell stopped the armbar before the limb was broken, Razak would've kept fighting.

Some fights you have to keep applying the submission until they are in extreme pain or their limbs are broken.

Look at what Big Tim did. He even wanted to continue to fight after his arm was broken.

DAMN YOUR BOLD WORDS!!!


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

milkkid291 said:


> The limb won't be broken if the guy taps. Most people tap.
> 
> Some fighters obviously don't tap when they are caught, so if Cantwell stopped the armbar before the limb was broken, Razak would've kept fighting.
> 
> ...



*Sigh*....Dude, I don't know what the hell I gotta do to get you to understand you are still not getting it. I even used bold, I mean c'mon, bold almost always works. You are still stuck on this notion that we are saying he is a douche for breaking dude's arm. We are not saying that in any way shape or form. The problem lies in the *lack of class* shown by Cantwell after the fight. Nothing more, nothing less.


Red AND bold...It can't fail. Please tell me you understand.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> *Sigh*....Dude, I don't know what the hell I gotta do to get you to understand you are still not getting it. I even used bold, I mean c'mon, bold almost always works. You are still stuck on this notion that we are saying he is a douche for breaking dude's arm. We are not saying that in any way shape or form. The problem lies in the lack of class shown by Cantwell after the fight. Nothing more, nothing less.


I agree that he should not have said that, but I saw your bold and I understand.

But again, response to the bold, there are fighters out there in a competition who will not quit even if you broke a bone of theirs. Like a Big Tim. He still wanted to fight with his broken arm. So to say not to snap someone's limb in a competition, but on the street, is something I don't agree with. Some guys won't give up even if you broke one of their limbs.

What about the guys who break fighters bones due to strikes? Look at what Cung Lee did to Frank and Frank still fought. (again, this is a response to your *BOLD* statement that it should not be used in competitions)


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

milkkid291 said:


> I agree that he should not have said that, but I saw your bold and I understand.
> 
> But again, response to the bold, there are fighters out there in a competition who will not quit even if you broke a bone of theirs. Like a Big Tim. He still wanted to fight with his broken arm. So to say not to snap someone's limb in a competition, but on the street, is something I don't agree with. Some guys won't give up even if you broke one of their limbs.
> 
> What about the guys who break fighters bones due to strikes? Look at what Cung Lee did to Frank and Frank still fought. (again, this is a response to your *BOLD* statement that it should not be used in competitions)


Well MMA and BJJ competetions have rules set in place to protect the fighters. Tim wanted to keep fighting, but it's tough shit for him cuz his arm is broke and the ref and doctor's ain't gonna allow it to go on. In other cases where fighters DO continue fighting after getting a bone break, 100% of the time is because the refs and doctors weren't aware of it. 

Besides, a broken limb is far worse than a broken rib or orbital bone or something. 

The reason why this is pissin a lot of people off is cuz 99% of the time your career is not gonna be affected by being choked out, KOed, cut open, or getting a rib or orbital bone broken. However, a leg break or arm break is potentially career ending. And no one should be happy or look forward to being the person to do that to a fellow MMA fighter or BJJ practioner. It's just douchey and fucked up.


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## hubert (Sep 24, 2006)

milkkid291 said:


> I agree that he should not have said that, but I saw your bold and I understand.
> 
> But again, response to the bold, there are fighters out there in a competition who will not quit even if you broke a bone of theirs. Like a Big Tim. He still wanted to fight with his broken arm. So to say not to snap someone's limb in a competition, but on the street, is something I don't agree with. Some guys won't give up even if you broke one of their limbs.
> 
> What about the guys who break fighters bones due to strikes? Look at what Cung Lee did to Frank and Frank still fought. (again, this is a response to your *BOLD* statement that it should not be used in competitions)


I don't think milkkid gets it... no one is arguing about Cantwell breaking the arm, it's fine. We're talking about the comment he made after the fight. Not only was it unsportsmanship like but confessing to wanting to break someone's arm is grotesque behavior. If you're that type of person, I think you need a psychologist. Unfortunately there seems to be a few forum members here who are.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Maybe I'm one of the only ones but as someone who's trained BJJ as a lot of you have as well you learn moves to break limbs and put people to sleep but while training you don't get to break limbs which is a good thing you don't do limb locks 100% in training for that reason.

However breaking someones arm who doesn't tap and leaves it in there does seem pretty awesome and I can't blame him for being excited about it because I damn sure would be.

Cantwell followed the rules and did nothing wrong and within the rules he did something he thought was awesome.

I can see why you guys don't like the fact he is proud of breaking the guys arm but I personally think it would be something I would also be excited about.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

I think Al-Hassan is a douche for not tapping, what the hell did he think was going to happen? That being said, you've never had an urge to break a dude's arm before?


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> Maybe I'm one of the only ones but as someone who's trained BJJ as a lot of you have as well you learn moves to break limbs and put people to sleep but while training you don't get to break limbs which is a good thing you don't do limb locks 100% in training for that reason.
> 
> However breaking someones arm who doesn't tap and leaves it in there does seem pretty awesome and I can't blame him for being excited about it because I damn sure would be.
> 
> ...


You're right, it might be awesome....if you were in a street fight and hated the dude or had any legit reason to actually WANT to do that to someone. But Cantwell is supposed to be a professional in a legitimate sport, there's no reason to want to do that to your opponent. He's just a guy who wants to win a fight just like him. 

And I'm not really judging him for being happy or having desire to do that, it's really more the fact that he should have been even just slightly professional and kept that shit to himself or at least waited a few months to make sure Razzak was healing ok before he started rubbing it in his face and bragging about it.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

CornbreadBB said:


> I think Al-Hassan is a douche for not tapping, what the hell did he think was going to happen? That being said, you've never had an urge to break a dude's arm before?


He probably just honestly didn't wanna believe he was about to lose and thought he could still escape. Imagine what would be going through your head in your UFC debut and you find yourself seconds away from losing on national TV and in Razak's case in front of a bunch of US military guys lol I'm half kidding about that cuz I don't have a clue where he grew up.

Sorry for the double post i forgot about multi-quote


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## morninglightmt (Sep 7, 2008)

Al-Hassan was an anachronism that didn't belong in the ring with Cantwell. I had really liked what I saw of Cantwell before this but now in his first UFC fight I get the impression he is a giant d-bag. It's fight for the troops and donate money for injured soldiers and he yells about how he's wanted so long to break someones arm? Stupid, poor timing and just bad taste. When he starts fighting some real competition and not just big dudes that bang (like his past 2 opponents) I think he's going to get a rude awakening.

Oh and yea Al-Hassan was stupid as hell. JUST TAP! Wasn't there a thread on this last week? lol


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> Well MMA and BJJ competetions have rules set in place to protect the fighters. Tim wanted to keep fighting, but it's tough shit for him cuz his arm is broke and the ref and doctor's ain't gonna allow it to go on. In other cases where fighters DO continue fighting after getting a bone break, 100% of the time is because the refs and doctors weren't aware of it.
> 
> Besides, a broken limb is far worse than a broken rib or orbital bone or something.
> 
> The reason why this is pissin a lot of people off is cuz 99% of the time your career is not gonna be affected by being choked out, KOed, cut open, or getting a rib or orbital bone broken. However, a leg break or arm break is potentially career ending. And no one should be happy or look forward to being the person to do that to a fellow MMA fighter or BJJ practioner. It's just douchey and fucked up.


Broken limbs occur without Submissions man. Cung Lee and Gonzaga can tell you that. Also, no one has died from broken limbs, while someone has from strikes to the head. 9Douglas Dedge and Sam Vasquez, even though they shouldn't have been fighting)

There are rules set up to protect fighters, but fighters have to take responsibilty to take care of themselves also. Not tapping which end ups breaking your limb is your fault.



hubert said:


> I don't think milkkid gets it... no one is arguing about Cantwell breaking the arm, it's fine. We're talking about the comment he made after the fight. Not only was it unsportsmanship like but confessing to wanting to break someone's arm is grotesque behavior. If you're that type of person, I think you need a psychologist. Unfortunately there seems to be a few forum members here who are.


If you were an MMA fighter and you broke someone's limb, you would be excited too. It's the fact that all the adrenalin rushing through you gets you excited. You think it's grotesque that someone was excited about breaking someone's arms, but yet, there are fighters who get excited when blood squirts all over the place and licks the blood from their gloves or could quite possibly fracture someone's skull with multiple knees to the skull.




bbjd7 said:


> Maybe I'm one of the only ones but as someone who's trained BJJ as a lot of you have as well you learn moves to break limbs and put people to sleep but while training you don't get to break limbs which is a good thing you don't do limb locks 100% in training for that reason.
> 
> However breaking someones arm who doesn't tap and leaves it in there does seem pretty awesome and I can't blame him for being excited about it because I damn sure would be.
> 
> ...



For once, I think I agree with you lol.


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> He probably just honestly didn't wanna believe he was about to lose and thought he could still escape. Imagine what would be going through your head in your UFC debut and you find yourself seconds away from losing.


I think having your arm broken is much more of a consequence than just tapping. Even if what you said was true, what was Steve supposed to do? Let it go so Hassan would have a better 1st fight?


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> You're right, it might be awesome....if you were in a street fight and hated the dude or had any legit reason to actually WANT to do that to someone. But Cantwell is supposed to be a professional in a legitimate sport, there's no reason to want to do that to your opponent. He's just a guy who wants to win a fight just like him.
> 
> And I'm not really judging him for being happy or having desire to do that, it's really more the fact that he should have been even just slightly professional and kept that shit to himself or at least waited a few months to make sure Razzak was healing ok before he started rubbing it in his face and bragging about it.


But that's the whole point he followed the rules of the sport.

He followed the rules and did something he had wanted to do.

It's not his fault he broke Razak's arm and the fact he did was probably an awesome feeling I've never snapped a limb but from some of the guys I've trained with who have it is an amazing feeling.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

WL2FU, there are no rules in MMA to not snap someones limb while you have them in a submission and they don't tap.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

CornbreadBB said:


> I think having your arm broken is much more of a consequence than just tapping. Even if what you said was true, what was Steve supposed to do? Let it go so Hassan would have a better 1st fight?


LOL, no, not what I'm saying at all. I'm just saying I can see why he might not have wanted to tap. Not saying he is smart or whatever by not tapping. You don't always make the smartest decisions when you're in a predicament like that, so I understand why he or anyone else would not wanna tap.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

milkkid291 said:


> WL2FU, there are no rules in MMA to not snap someones limb while you have them in a submission and they don't tap.


Agghfghghf I know and I needed to go to bed like 4 hours ago! I wasn't saying that either, I was talking about how the rules are in place to prevent the fighter from continuing the match if a limb is broken. It was to counter your point about how some people, like big Tim, don't care if their arm is broke they will still fight. It doesn't matter if they wanna still fight or not cuz the doctors wont let it...so the point you were trying to make was moot in my eyes.

I dunno if I am wording my posts wrong or what, I mean i been high all morning but it seems like its damn near impossible to get you guys on the same page as me the first time around.


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## sk double i (Apr 13, 2007)

milkkid291 said:


> Whatever Steve Cantwell said post interview was stupid of him because of how people would take it. I really don't know his true intentions, but from my experience, when you break someone's bone it's because that person allowed you to carry of the main purpose of that move... such as the armbar which is to break someone's arm. Cantwell did what all BJJ practioners are trained to do and that is to not stopped until your opponent taps or the ref stops you.


Is it? I always thought the basis of martial arts and jiu jitsu was for self defense. I didn't know the point of BJJ was to break peoples arms.

[/QUOTE]When he said he couldn't wait to break someone's bone, how I took it is that he couldn't wait because when you break someone's bone, it's because the disrespected your ground game and deserved it for allowing the main purpose of that move to be carried out. Who really knows why he couldn't wait and if that is the main purpose, but this is a combat sport and the moves that MMA fighters are doing have a purpose to them and the armbar's purpose if to break your arm. Having it happen is rare because most people are smart enough to tap.[/QUOTE]

Again, I never had a problem with him breaking his arm. Never once did I say it was wrong. It was his comments after the fight that I had a problem with. It's not good for the sport, and I'm sure a lot of fighters that were listening to his comments were shaking their heads. 

[/QUOTE]Yes, I do train MMA. I have been for many years now and I also train in Karate. I know what respect is and in a competition when you are doing moves where the main purpose is to break a bone, that is what happens when the move is allowed to go through 100% and the opponent doesn't tap.[/QUOTE]

If this is the case and you do compete in tournaments, you must know what it feels like to lose and have your opponent disrespect you after a match. I think any athelete can agree, it's classless. Esp in martial arts where you value and learn respect first and foremost which is what the sport is based on, not necessarily how to win a match.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> Agghfghghf I know and I needed to go to bed like 4 hours ago! I wasn't saying that either, I was talking about how the rules are in place to prevent the fighter from continuing the match if a limb is broken. It was to counter your point about how some people, like big Tim, don't care if their arm is broke they will still fight. It doesn't matter if they wanna still fight or not cuz the doctors wont let it...so the point you were trying to make was moot in my eyes.


My point is that those fighters wouldn't be in that position if their limbs weren't broken. Yes, I agree with the refs stopping fighters from fighting, even if they want to, if their limbs are broken. 

A fighter wouldn't have to want to fight even if their bone was broken, if they just tapped.

The ref will stop the fight if a bone is visibly broken, but to get to that point is the fighter's fault. 

My point that I'm making is that some fighters will not tap, even if their arm is broken. So you have to carry out the full motion of the submission until the guy taps or the ref stops it. Sometimes fighters won't give up even if their arm is broken.


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## Chrisl972 (Oct 5, 2006)

milkkid291 said:


> My point is that those fighters wouldn't be in that position if their limbs weren't broken. Yes, I agree with the refs stopping fighters from fighting, even if they want to, if their limbs are broken.
> 
> A fighter wouldn't have to want to fight even if their bone was broken, if they just tapped.
> 
> ...


Jesus Christ! This thread isn't about whether or not Cantwell was correct in breaking his arm. It's about the comments he made after he did it. 

NO ONE IS SAYING HE SHOULDN'T HAVE BROKEN HIS ARM.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

This is my last post in this thread I'm going to bed now...I'm just going to leave you with this

*NOBODY CARES THAT CANTWELL BROKE RAZZAK'S ARM. NOT A SINGLE PERSON. THE POINT IS CANTWELL SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CARRYING ON THE WAY HE DID AFTER THE FIGHT AND EVEN STILL IN POST-FIGHT CONFERENCE (WHICH THROWS YOUR ADRENALINE THEORIES OUT THE WINDOW). IT WAS CLASSLESS AND UNPROFESSIONAL, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. THAT IS BASICALLY A FACT, NOT AN OPINION. IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU DISAGREE, YOU ARE WRONG. GOOD NIGHT.

LOVE,
WOULDLUV2FIGHTU*


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

Chrisl972 said:


> Jesus Christ! This thread isn't about whether or not Cantwell was correct in breaking his arm. It's about the comments he made after he did it.
> 
> NO ONE IS SAYING HE SHOULDN'T HAVE BROKEN HIS ARM.


If you read what me and WL2FU are debating about, you would understand. 

WL2FU said you shouldn't do it in a competition. I said you should.

That's what I'm arguing and I know that most of you guys agree with the breaking, just not the comments.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> This is my last post in this thread I'm going to bed now...I'm just going to leave you with this
> 
> *NOBODY CARES THAT CANTWELL BROKE RAZZAK'S ARM. NOT A SINGLE PERSON. THE POINT IS CANTWELL SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CARRYING ON THE WAY HE DID AFTER THE FIGHT AND EVEN STILL IN POST-FIGHT (WHICH THROWS YOUR ADRENALINE THEORIES OUT THE WINDOW). IT WAS CLASSLESS AND UNPROFESSIONAL, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. THAT IS BASICALLY A FACT, NOT AN OPINION. IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU DISAGREE, YOU ARE WRONG. GOOD NIGHT.
> 
> ...



I know this WL2FU, but you said that breaking a limb in a competition isn't right. That's what I am debating with you about.

THIS IS WHAT IM DEBATING.



> BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN ITS COOL TO SNAP SOMEONE'S LIMB IN A LEGIT COMPETITION. IN A STREET FIGHT MAYBE BUT THIS IS A SPORT - WL2FU


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## Chrisl972 (Oct 5, 2006)

milkkid291 said:


> I know this WL2FU, but you said that breaking a limb in a competition isn't right. That's what I am debating with you about.


You quote the part that says he understands and is OK with Cantwell breaking his arm, to argue with him that it's OK to break an arm. :confused02:


EDIT: I see that you added more to your post after I quoted it. 

It's not COOL to break an arm. It's something he had to do and he should have been remorseful for the act.


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

Chrisl972 said:


> You quote the part that says he understand and is OK with Cantwell breaking his arm, to argue with him that it's OK to break an arm. :confused02:


Here, WL2FU said this earlier....



> BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN ITS COOL TO SNAP SOMEONE'S LIMB IN A LEGIT COMPETITION. IN A STREET FIGHT MAYBE BUT THIS IS A SPORT - WL2FU


That is what I am debating about.

I think it's fine to break someone's limb in a competition and he doesn't. Well, atleast that's what the quote says.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

milkkid291 said:


> Here, WL2FU said this earlier....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


FINE.

P.S.

I MEANT "COOL" AS IN "AWESOME" NOT COOL AS IN "OK" OR "ACCEPTABLE"


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> FINE.
> 
> P.S.
> 
> I MEANT "COOL" AS IN "AWESOME" NOT COOL AS IN "OK" OR "ACCEPTABLE"


Ok, forget everything we were talking about then. 

I thought you ment as is Ok or Acceptable.

Not like "Awesome! I just broke a guy's arm!"


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## Royce (Nov 10, 2008)

unbelievable...after about 50 times diffrent people explained that the discussion is about Cantwell REACTION AND STATMENTS and NOT the actual breaking of the arm - some people keeps justifying the breaking of the arm.:dunno:




> bbjd7 wrote :
> It's not his fault he broke Razak's arm and the fact he did was probably an awesome feeling I've never snapped a limb but from some of the guys I've trained with who have it is an amazing feeling.


i find that disgusting..and i doubt any decent classy fighter like GSP or BJ would say breaking a limb gives him an "amazing feeling" :confused05:


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

milkkid291 said:


> Ok, forget everything we were talking about then.
> 
> I thought you ment as is Ok or Acceptable.
> 
> Not like "Awesome! I just broke a guy's arm!"


:thumb02: yay now i can sleep :thumb02:


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Are you kidding me I'm sure BJ would never stop bragging about breaking a guys limb in MMA if he did.

Guys in BJJ train to break arms but they never actually break them.

So when they actually do it is supposed to be something amazing.

Especially when you aren't being a dick and following the rules.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Royce said:


> unbelievable...after about 50 times diffrent people explained that the discussion is about Cantwell REACTION AND STATMENTS and NOT the actual breaking of the arm - some people keeps justifying the breaking of the arm.:dunno:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have got to be joking me throwing BJ in there. Probably one of the guys with the least amount of class in MMA. He probably would have been talking not only about how awsome breaking the arm was, but also gone on to be disrespectful and talk shit about the guy who's arm he broke...


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## milkkid291 (Dec 31, 2006)

BJ said he was going to Kill Sherk. He licks the blood of his opponents off his gloves. He held a submission longer than needed when the ref told him to stop.

BJ is not a classy fighter. An exciting one... Yes.


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## Royce (Nov 10, 2008)

yea haha..maybe i should've mentinoed someone else insted of BJ..but u get my point.there is nothing heroic in breaking an arm..injering someone < not submitting..injering> isnt the sort of thing a decent fighter takes pride in.

<and you know what..i dont think even BJ would brag about it..i give him more credit than that>


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Royce said:


> yea haha..maybe i should've mentinoed someone else insted of BJ..but u get my point.there is nothing heroic in breaking an arm..injering someone < not submitting..injering> isnt the sort of thing a decent fighter takes pride in.
> 
> <and you know what..i dont think even BJ would brag about it..i give him more credit than that>


I wouldn't put it past BJ to brag about breaking someone's arm even if he did it post-tap. Guy's seriously got little dog syndrome he'll do anything if it makes him feel like more of a badass.


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## Royce (Nov 10, 2008)

well lets wait untill BJ actually does it before we bad mouth him.

for now Cantwell is the only one douchy enough to do it in such a distasteful manner.


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Royce said:


> well lets wait untill BJ actually does it before we bad mouth him.
> 
> for now Cantwell is the only one douchy enough to do it in such a distasteful manner.


well for the record, BJ shows disrespect to every opponent he has. Cantwell thought breaking an arm was cool and showed no disrespect to his opponent.

Really who's the bigger douchebag?


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> Are you kidding me I'm sure BJ would never stop bragging about breaking a guys limb in MMA if he did.
> 
> Guys in BJJ train to break arms but they never actually break them.
> 
> ...





milkkid291 said:


> BJ said he was going to Kill Sherk. He licks the blood of his opponents off his gloves. He held a submission longer than needed when the ref told him to stop.
> 
> BJ is not a classy fighter. An exciting one... Yes.


And I'm sure people will bring it up if BJ ever breaks someone's arm and brags about it. Hell, there was a ton of controversy surrounding BJ's long choke hold on Pulver, his blood licking, etc. There's no special treatment, people have reamed BJ for his antics and will continue to do so. Bad example.


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## sk double i (Apr 13, 2007)

69nites said:


> well for the record, BJ shows disrespect to every opponent he has. Cantwell thought breaking an arm was cool and showed no disrespect to his opponent.
> 
> Really who's the bigger douchebag?


I'm not defending BJ, just using him as an example since you guys are...but he always says sh*t like that (licking the blood off his opponent's face) to hype up a fight, and it works. 

He always show respect for his opponents after the fight and gave all the credit in the world to Sherk and Hughes in the ring and at the press conferences. Yea he might've held the choke a second or two longer than he shuold've against Jens, but we're comparing a choke to dismantled limbs which will probably need surgury to fix. Even after this and their history of bad blood they showed nothing but respect for eachother. I just dont think they're comparable.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Cantwell is a douche for the way he acted.



bbjd7 said:


> Are you kidding me I'm sure BJ would never stop bragging about breaking a guys limb in MMA if he did.
> 
> Guys in BJJ train to break arms but they never actually break them.
> 
> ...


No. If you take pleasure in breaking someones arm, you probably have some problems.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

I'll just quickly sum up my point because I'm done arguing with Plazz...

He was a retard to say it aloud. Yes, I agree with a lot of you that it makes the sport look bad. However, I don't think he is a douchebag because he feels that way simply because I am damn positive that he is not alone. In fact, I would say that he is in the majority.


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

I didn't see anything wrong with it. The guy didn't tap, got his arm broken. Honestly that would have made me excited as well, as it obviously did Cantwell.


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## Royce (Nov 10, 2008)

sk double i said:


> I'm not defending BJ, just using him as an example since you guys are...but he always says sh*t like that (licking the blood off his opponent's face) to hype up a fight, and it works.
> 
> He always show respect for his opponents after the fight and gave all the credit in the world to Sherk and Hughes in the ring and at the press conferences. Yea he might've held the choke a second or two longer than he shuold've against Jens, but we're comparing a choke to dismantled limbs which will probably need surgury to fix. Even after this and their history of bad blood they showed nothing but respect for eachother. I just dont think they're comparable.


what he said.

and another thing : u get some slack when u earn it.
BJ has made himself into a legend in this sport..yea he talks shit at times..but at least he's got the record and abillty to back it up

who the f**k is Cantwell ? what has he done ? he broke some inexperiance guy hand..big ******* hero.lets see him take on someone in the top 5..will see what he has to say after that.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> Cantwell is a douche for the way he acted.
> 
> 
> 
> No. If you take pleasure in breaking someones arm, you probably have some problems.


Well you could say the same thing about taking pleasure in punching people in the face or choking people out.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Well you could say the same thing about taking pleasure in punching people in the face or choking people out.


That is pretty much exactly what I said on page 5 of this thread. People are going to somehow try and argue that you are completely wrong.


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## USMCOgre (Dec 8, 2008)

Wise said:


> I would have done the same thing. If youre dumb enough not to tap you get what you deserve. This is fighting not ******* hello kitty island adventure.


This post is pure greatness.


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

J.P. said:


> lol. It's a fight. *I want to smash your face, knock you out, snap your arm, choke you out, put you to sleep!!*
> 
> If any above comment offends you.........go watch WWE crybaby. BTW, WWE probably has more offensive comments towards opponents....or opponents so to speak.


I can't believe I'm breaking news to you here, but those are all comments you hear BEFORE a fight to hype up the fight or the fighter. You don't hear comments like that generally speaking after a fight, especially when you did in fact just break your opponents arm. One of the cool things about MMA is the class and respect fighters show eachother after a fight. I can't say I'm surprised that there are so many people who don't think twice about his comments I mean afterall there are a lot of N. Diaz fans out there and I'd be willing to bet these two groups are mostly the same people. I'm not going to watch a different sport because some asshole was being an asshole, I'm going to voice my opinion and hope that the UFC is of the same opinion and decide to act. If you don't like it go watch another sport cry baby.


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## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

you need guys like that in the sport. Cant just have all good guys, you need cockyness, assholes and whatever.


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## Tripod87 (Dec 30, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> Well you could say the same thing about taking pleasure in punching people in the face or choking people out.


While close, it's not quite the same thing. Let's say you KO'ed someone and fractured part of their skull. Saying "I've always wanted to break someones skull" is closer to what Cantwell did. There is a difference between punching/hurting people and actually causing injuries to people.

It's like that hit Anquan Boldin took when he got a concussion earlier this year in the NFL. If the defender had said something like, "Man I've always wanted to knock a guy completely unconscious like that" there would have been a HUGE debate on ESPN over the ethics of the defender and wtf was wrong with him.


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## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

Nope, that doesn't cause someone lasting damage. I'd think it was pretty sick if someone thought, "wow, I always wanted to smash someones Jaw/orbital bone" though.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Knocking a person out cold and breaking an arm really isn't all that different.

Wanting to break an arm when your opponent doesn't tap really isn't that wrong.


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

You can tell who on this forum actually likes to fight and who just wants to pretend. 
Fighters, no matter how respectful, want to use their skills to the full extent. Whether its a knockout or a submission or a TKO due to injury. They dream of breaking arms. Fighters train for hours and hours learning how to inflict pain and not get to actually do it 100% in training. 
What are they supposed to do...hold on to the arm at just the right pressure to not break it? Thats f-ing ludicrous...no one would tap if they didn't think it would come to that.
I personally would love to have a guy not tap so I could legally snap his elbow. If you don't like that then OK, but I'm not sorry that I want to. I'd do f-ing cartwheels of joy if I could do that to a guy named Al Hassam in Ft. Bragg in front of all those troops. :thumb02:
If I armbar a guy and he taps quick then so be it, if I armbar him and doesn't tap...well it's not like he didn't know what was going to happen.
Ha! did you see the look of shock on his ugly f-ing face. 
Sorry if you don't like my opinion. I'm sure you know how to neg rep though.


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## Tripod87 (Dec 30, 2007)

Yeah, I don't feel like what Cantwell did in his fight was wrong either. I encourage it since Al-hakzhskhd (forgot his name) didn't tap. Just saying that he's been wanting to do that for so long, donno, just kind of sick to me. He could have potentially ended another fighter's career and he seemed ecstatic about it. Ending someone's career or even significantly hampering it shouldn't be something you get really happy about, _especially_ if there's no bad blood about the two fighters.

I mean, it's just my opinion and I'm sticking with it. I don't feel like people who disagree with me on this are idiots since I can see what you mean from your stand point. All I want to get across is that you can see/understand from mine as well.


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## sk double i (Apr 13, 2007)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> You can tell who on this forum actually likes to fight and who just wants to pretend.
> Fighters, no matter how respectful, want to use their skills to the full extent. Whether its a knockout or a submission or a TKO due to injury. They dream of breaking arms. Fighters train for hours and hours learning how to inflict pain and not get to actually do it 100% in training.
> What are they supposed to do...hold on to the arm at just the right pressure to not break it? Thats f-ing ludicrous...no one would tap if they didn't think it would come to that.
> I personally would love to have a guy not tap so I could legally snap his elbow. If you don't like that then OK, but I'm not sorry that I want to. I'd do f-ing cartwheels of joy if I could do that to a guy named Al Hassam in Ft. Bragg in front of all those troops. :thumb02:
> ...



Thanks. I've never neg repped anyone ever. But now I do. 

Can someone please tell me how you do this?


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I get it no doubt Tripod.

I just think Breaking an arm as long as you are doing it within the rules is pretty cool.

Anyone think fighters aren't pumped when they break a guys ribs with knees in the clinch?


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

sk double i said:


> Thanks. I've never neg repped anyone ever. But now I do.
> 
> Can someone please tell me how you do this?


Here is a good example of how to neg rep and not leave your pussie name.

let's turn that bar red, u like red dont u stupid douche? 

Ha! you'd never say that to my face. You cant even let me know who you are by screen name... jack0ff:sarcastic12:


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

I don't see a reason to neg someone over a disagreement that is purely opinion.

I mean there's not really even a point of debating it. Both sides fully understand the other side's view and simply disagree.


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## Goat Man (Oct 19, 2007)

Walker said:


> Already been said but what else can you do? Dude didn't want to tap- end result. :dunno:
> 
> Plus fighters say some dumb things immediately after fights.​


SOOO true


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

69nites said:


> I don't see a reason to neg someone over a disagreement that is purely opinion.
> 
> I mean there's not really even a point of debating it. Both sides fully understand the other side's view and simply disagree.


I agree, but I also knew it was coming so it's not a huge deal. The whole rep system is nothing but a place to vent frustration with someone you can't get your hands on and in most cases probably wouldn't even consider if they were face to face. Another form of internet muscles.


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## chrisdpucci (May 27, 2007)

I personally thought it was a little distasteful that he immediately got up and seemed happy that he broke the dude's arm rather than showing any concern for the other fighter as most do, but how many times do you hear in pre or post fight interviews where fighters talk about taking a limb home with them, wanting to break the other guys face, snap an arm or some other intention of physical harm? This is the fight game. It is agreed on both sides that while you are in the octagon fighting that the intention is to bring enough harm to the other fighter to end the fight. If it takes breaking an arm to end a fight, then that is what it takes and being proud of winning in a fashion you've looked forward to isn't a "bad" thing.


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

chrisdpucci said:


> I personally thought it was a little distasteful that he immediately got up and seemed happy that he broke the dude's arm rather than showing any concern for the other fighter as most do, but how many times do you hear in pre or post fight interviews where fighters talk about taking a limb home with them, wanting to break the other guys face, snap an arm or some other intention of physical harm? This is the fight game. It is agreed on both sides that while you are in the octagon fighting that the intention is to bring enough harm to the other fighter to end the fight. If it take breaking an arm, that is what it takes.


Distasteful, yeah maybe. Is it how they all feel, hell yes!


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## sk double i (Apr 13, 2007)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> I agree, but I also knew it was coming so it's not a huge deal. The whole rep system is nothing but a place to vent frustration with someone you can't get your hands on and in most cases probably wouldn't even consider if they were face to face. Another form of internet muscles.


Do you get points or something the more positive reps you get? This systems just sounds stupid to me. If you dont agree or dislike someone's comment, then say something about it or ignore it. WTF is a rep.


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## Tripod87 (Dec 30, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> I get it no doubt Tripod.
> 
> I just think Breaking an arm as long as you are doing it within the rules is pretty cool.
> 
> Anyone think fighters aren't pumped when they break a guys ribs with knees in the clinch?


Yeah, in this sense I totally agree with you. If I was in a sanctioned fight and f*cked up my opponent, I'd be pretty pumped and feel like the bad ass of the year. But I would definitely not be like, "Oh man, I finally got to hurt this guy badly, AWESOME!" I would at least show some concern to him and wish him the best recovery.

I'm not saying I would feel bad for my opponent, but I wouldn't have a smile that reached from one ear to the next about injuring my opponent.


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

sk double i said:


> Do you get points or something the more positive reps you get? This systems just sounds stupid to me. If you dont agree or dislike someone's comment, then say something about it or ignore it. WTF is a rep.


Not really sure. I think its more of status to let people know how well respected you are in the forum. But does that really matter when all it says is that most people agree with your opinions? It would be really boring to visit a site and discuss MMA with people all of the same thoughts.

Anyway, My only point in all of this was that Cantwell is just on e of those guys that fights for something other than the competition. Believe it or not some people enjoy the fight, the pain, inflicting pain and executing skills with bad intentions not just the notoriety and money.

maybe the mainstream isn't ready for the real thing yet.:dunno:


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

plazzman said:


> My god, you guys STILL don't get it.
> 
> It was no ones fault that Hassan's arm broke. Cantwell did what he had to do to win the fight, and Razzak was trying his best to escape. Saying "Duh have you ever heard of Tap nap or snap!112" is stupid cause just because someone slaps a sub on you, doesn't mean you should immediatly tap, obviously you can escape.
> 
> ...


I feel the exact same way. 

I am not going to hate on the guy for saying that, but you just don't do it. You have to act classy, even if you are not. You go over and check on your opponent. 

Did you guys think Wanderlei Silva was being a ***** when he tried to check on Jardine after that brutal KO? I thought it was pure class. 

What's wrong with viciously knocking someone out, tapping them, or even breaking a limb if neccesary (in this case with Cantwell it was neccesary, buddy didn't tap!) and still being classy about the win.

I thought it was a great fight, and Cantwell really impressed me. But I would much rather see a class act than a malicious limb breaker. 

I am sure some fighters pretend to be classy when they are actually thinking the same thing Cantwell said, but that's the thing; you don't say it. You pretend. This is entertainment, these are public figures; everything they say is under scrutiny. 

Some people might find these comments offensive, and some people may love him for it. Personally I don't care for that kind of talk after a serious injury has occured. Trash talk before, and the act itself (when neccesary), is fine.


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## Tango87 (Oct 17, 2006)

I'm going to have to go on and say... Yeah I train and I love BJJ. That being said, I definitely understand cantwell. You are always curious about what it feels like to continue to move. I'm dying for the day that some ass tries to not tap during a Kimura. IF anything it's kind of disrespectful not to tap. You are saying, "You are not better than me and I won't submit to you" well then here's your arm back after I rip it off. Good Job Cantwell, do it again if some douche decides he wants to be prideful. 

IMHO only a Gracie should let that happen if it occurred (I mean if they were to let it happen I would understand. I'm not saying that they shouldn't tap) or Machado, Jacare, Marcelo, etc. Those guys have put their time in the sport and are changing it, I can see them letting their pride get the best of them but not some guy named Al-Hassan that no one has ever heard of.


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> Not really sure. I think its more of status to let people know how well respected you are in the forum. But does that really matter when all it says is that most people agree with your opinions? It would be really boring to visit a site and discuss MMA with people all of the same thoughts.
> 
> Anyway, My only point in all of this was that Cantwell is just on e of those guys that fights for something other than the competition. Believe it or not some people enjoy the fight, the pain, inflicting pain and executing skills with bad intentions not just the notoriety and money.
> 
> maybe the mainstream isn't ready for the real thing yet.:dunno:


While I don't doubt that some fighters do probably get great pleasure in inflicting pain towards their opponent, how then does that make you *not* a douche?

That is like someone going "I love to break people's arms and give them concussions so I'll join a combat sport so I can do it legally."

If I misinterpreted what you stated, please correct me.


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

Ape City said:


> Some people might find these comments offensive, and some people may love him for it. Personally I don't care for that kind of talk after a serious injury has occured. Trash talk before, and the act itself (when neccesary), is fine.


Let me say that I don't love him for it. I do think it was distasteful, however don't expect a lion to be a rabbit. There was no trash talk, he was being himself and saying how he really feels. *Like it or not thats the truth.*


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## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

I don't think people understand. This wasn't trash talk. This was a man admiring his accomplishment. He showed no sign of disrespect to his opponent at any point.

He didn't have to check to see if the guy was okay, he knew he wasn't.


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## Chrisl972 (Oct 5, 2006)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> Let me say that I don't love him for it. I do think it was distasteful, however don't expect a lion to be a rabbit. There was no trash talk, he was being himself and saying how he really feels. *Like it or not thats the truth.*


We're not saying he's a liar, we're saying he's a douche. 

And that statement, well, makes him a douche.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Chrisl972 said:


> We're not saying he's a liar, we're saying he's a douche.
> 
> And that statement, well, makes him a douche.


Yup!


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

Chrisl972 said:


> We're not saying he's a liar, we're saying he's a douche.
> 
> And that statement, well, makes him a douche.


If a douche is someone who speaks their mind then there are many of them on this forum right?
Or is our definition of a douche someone who says something we wouldn't say or something we don't agree with?

I'm really starting to think that there is a world of fighting that people see on TV and then there is the truth back in the gym and on the street. Life can be cruel and so can people, even on TV. Thinking that fighters should all have the most honorable intentions is like believing in Santa.


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## Chrisl972 (Oct 5, 2006)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> If a douche is someone who speaks their mind then there are many of them on this forum right?
> Or is our definition of a douche someone who says something we wouldn't say or something we don't agree with?
> 
> I'm really starting to think that there is a world of fighting that people see on TV and then there is the truth back in the gym and on the street. Life can be cruel and so can people, even on TV. Thinking that fighters should all have the most honorable intentions is like believing in Santa.


It seems that there's no reason to have this conversation with you. 

You think it OK to take joy and expect other to feel your joy after breaking someones arm and I think he's a douche for being so open about it. 

Unless I'm missing something that you can correct me on, I'm out of this debate.


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

Chrisl972 said:


> It seems that there's no reason to have this conversation with you.
> 
> You think it OK to take joy and expect other to feel your joy after breaking someones arm and I think he's a douche for being so open about it.
> 
> Unless I'm missing something that you can correct me on, I'm out of this debate.


It's OK. We don't have to agree.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> I get it no doubt Tripod.
> 
> I just think Breaking an arm as long as you are doing it within the rules is pretty cool.
> 
> Anyone think fighters aren't pumped when they break a guys ribs with knees in the clinch?


They may be pumped, but they don't brag about it later. Anderson Silva broke Rich Franklin's nose twice, did he suck his own balls about it after? No. He didn't want to hurt Rich, he respects him as an athlete and a person. There may be a sense of gratification in the destruction of your opponent, but shouldn't that be enough? Why expose a sickening sadomasochistic side to your personality with unnecessary post-fight comments, especially when you're making your first impression on people.

Razak should have tapped, so I can't blame Cantwell for breaking his arm. But to claim he "wanted to do that for a long time" just makes him look classless and out there to seriously injure someone. This is a combat SPORT, and like any other sport should project some form of "sportsmanship" between its athletes.


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## TheGamefather (Sep 8, 2008)

milkkid291 said:


> Most MMA/BJJ practioners would know that when he said that (atleast for most) he couldn't wait because if you break someones bone in a submission, it's because that guy has disrespected your ground game and will not tap/give up. It's complete disrepsect and stupidity to not tap when you know you are stuck and can't get out. If you say you couldn't wait to do that, it's because the guy that you do it to deserves it. Tap and it won't happen. Ever see what Royce Gracie use to do?





Tango87 said:


> I'm going to have to go on and say... Yeah I train and I love BJJ. That being said, I definitely understand cantwell. You are always curious about what it feels like to continue to move. I'm dying for the day that some ass tries to not tap during a Kimura. IF anything it's kind of disrespectful not to tap. You are saying, "You are not better than me and I won't submit to you" well then here's your arm back after I rip it off. Good Job Cantwell, do it again if some douche decides he wants to be prideful.
> 
> IMHO only a Gracie should let that happen if it occurred (I mean if they were to let it happen I would understand. I'm not saying that they shouldn't tap) or Machado, Jacare, Marcelo, etc. Those guys have put their time in the sport and are changing it, I can see them letting their pride get the best of them but not some guy named Al-Hassan that no one has ever heard of.


Don't you think theres a better way to look at BJJ training than that? I'm not saying I wouldn't break a guys arm if he absolutley refused to tap, but I would look at it as an unfortunate nessesity and feel bad that the guy didn't understand he needed to tap. I think your drive to injur another persons pride is a form of fear.



bbjd7 said:


> Maybe I'm one of the only ones but as someone who's trained BJJ as a lot of you have as well you learn moves to break limbs and put people to sleep but while training you don't get to break limbs which is a good thing you don't do limb locks 100% in training for that reason.
> 
> However breaking someones arm who doesn't tap and leaves it in there does seem pretty awesome and I can't blame him for being excited about it because I damn sure would be.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I honestly didn't realize that's how it was being looked at from the inside. It's not hard to break someones limb once you've got it locked though. I wonder where the satisfaction is comming from...




bbjd7 said:


> Are you kidding me I'm sure BJ would never stop bragging about breaking a guys limb in MMA if he did.
> 
> Guys in BJJ train to break arms but they never actually break them.
> 
> ...


My view of BJJ guys is being effected by this thread, lol.



bbjd7 said:


> Well you could say the same thing about taking pleasure in punching people in the face or choking people out.


To me there is a solid degree of seperation between a choke out/KO, and breaking a limb. I think some guys take too many needless punchess too sometimes though.


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## sk double i (Apr 13, 2007)

Tango87 said:


> IMHO only a Gracie should let that happen if it occurred (I mean if they were to let it happen I would understand. I'm not saying that they shouldn't tap) or Machado, Jacare, Marcelo, etc. Those guys have put their time in the sport and are changing it, I can see them letting their pride get the best of them but not some guy named Al-Hassan that no one has ever heard of.


So just bc YOU have never heard of his name, he shouldn't be prideful? There are so many people out there who have sacrificed a lot for this sport, maybe you dont see their names on UFC cards but it doesnt mean a certain fighter hasn't earned his right to be prideful. You have no idea what Al-Hassan or any other fighter has done to earn a spot in the UFC or any other promotion. Fighting in smaller shows, the BJJ and wrestling tourneys, countless hours in the gym, blood, sweat, tears...


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

TheGamefather said:


> My view of BJJ guys is being effected by this thread, lol.


Honestly, don't let bbjd's stance effect your view of guys who train. I wouldn't feel gratification breaking anyone's arm, training partners or opponents, it's just not something I want to do. If I've put someone in a "tap or snap" situation many times before, and once I know I've locked the submission and they can't get out, I release it or wait for my trainer to break us up. 

There's nothing awesome about potentially ruining someone's career or their enjoyment of a sport. Sure, they shouldn't put themselves in that position, but even then you shouldn't act like you're king shit because you "finished" the submission.


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## sk double i (Apr 13, 2007)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> Let me say that I don't love him for it. I do think it was distasteful, however don't expect a lion to be a rabbit. There was no trash talk, he was being himself and saying how he really feels. *Like it or not thats the truth.*


So you're saying if someone loves to **** and murder little children, this person could go around saying that w/o people thinking he's a crazy psycho bc this is the truth?

I for one would think this is wrong and would say this person is an insane maniac.

What Cantwell said could very well be the truth which is why I think he is a douche.


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

sk double i said:


> So you're saying if someone loves to **** and murder little children, this person could go around saying that w/o people thinking he's a crazy psycho bc this is the truth?
> 
> I for one would think this is wrong and would say this person is an insane maniac.
> 
> What Cantwell said could very well be the truth which is why I think he is a douche.


Come on now...do you really think that an MMA fighter talking about wanting to break an arm in a fight is comparable to an open pediphile?


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

Fedor>all said:


> They may be pumped, but they don't brag about it later.


I don't think it bragging as much as it was joy. 
It's like this...you train, train, train then you fight and they always tap before the break or the ref stops it before the KO. Then you get a moron that doesn't tap when he should and you get to do what you've been training to do. BJJ isn't just for competition, it's for self defense. Our SF troops all train BJJ and use it in combat if needed.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> I don't think it bragging as much as it was joy.
> It's like this...you train, train, train then you fight and they always tap before the break or the ref stops it before the KO. Then you get a moron that doesn't tap when he should and you get to do what you've been training to do. BJJ isn't just for competition, it's for self defense. Our SF troops all train BJJ and use it in combat if needed.


Like I said, I train and if I broke someone's arm I wouldn't be a douchebag and brag about how much I enjoyed it, I'd make sure they were okay. Some thoughts are best kept to one's self, especially if they can incriminate you as disrespectful towards your opponent.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> I don't think it bragging as much as it was joy.
> *It's like this...you train, train, train then you fight and they always tap before the break or the ref stops it before the KO. Then you get a moron that doesn't tap when he should and you get to do what you've been training to do.* BJJ isn't just for competition, it's for self defense. Our SF troops all train BJJ and use it in combat if needed.


A fairly good explanation. I concur. 

Basically, "I've always wondered what that would happen, after all those armbars I let go of because a guy tapped."

Not, "Damn, I really want to break some guys arm because it would make me look cool."


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

Fedor>all said:


> Like I said, I train and if I broke someone's arm I wouldn't be a douchebag and brag about how much I enjoyed it, I'd make sure they were okay. Some thoughts are best kept to one's self, especially if they can incriminate you as disrespectful towards your opponent.


Yeah, well I train too...with guys that compete and with the guys that don't compete in a cage they compete on the real world stage of combat. A Marine like Cantwell is a fighting machine that wants to inflict damage not an english major that makes movies, therein lies the difference. He was in like company last night in Fayetteville and he spoke his mind.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> Yeah, well I train too...with guys that compete and with the guys that don't compete in a cage they compete on the real world stage of combat.


As do I, thanks for your irrelevant exposition.



LV 2 H8 U said:


> A Marine like Cantwell is a fighting machine that wants to inflict damage not an english major that makes movies, therein lies the difference.


Double major in Film and English actually 

Everyone in the UFC is a "fighting machine", yet how many have made such stupid comments after a fight? Not many, because they have class and Cantwell's comments lacked that completely.



LV 2 H8 U said:


> He was in like company last night in Fayetteville and he spoke his mind.


You can speak your mind in company without sounding like a moron.


----------



## sk double i (Apr 13, 2007)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> Come on now...do you really think that an MMA fighter talking about wanting to break an arm in a fight is comparable to an open pediphile?


I was just trying to prove a point. Though the comparison is very different and extreme, the analogy is the same.


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

Fedor>all said:


> As do I, thanks for your irrelevant exposition.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:laugh::laugh:
Sorry but I have hard time taking you seriously when you say you train. Especially when you just said that you train with soldiers. I have seen all the pics that you've posted of yourself on this site so please be real. I can listen to your opinion, but I won't listen to your BS.

Had enough now, I'm done with this thread.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> :laugh::laugh:
> Sorry but I have hard time taking you seriously when you say you train. Especially when you just said that you train with soldiers.


I've trained with former soldiers and police officers, while the soldiers are no longer active.



LV 2 H8 U said:


> I have seen all the pics that you've posted of yourself on this site so please be real. I can listen to your opinion, but I won't listen to your BS.


What does what I look like have to do with my training? You have a picture of a small shirtless child as your avatar, should I assume that your training consists of ****ing kids? Be real, jackass.

Nice exit from the thread by the way, turning to personal attacks because your argument consists of nothing but anecdotes.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> Honestly, don't let bbjd's stance effect your view of guys who train. I wouldn't feel gratification breaking anyone's arm, training partners or opponents, it's just not something I want to do. If I've put someone in a "tap or snap" situation many times before, and once I know I've locked the submission and they can't get out, I release it or wait for my trainer to break us up.
> 
> There's nothing awesome about potentially ruining someone's career or their enjoyment of a sport. Sure, they shouldn't put themselves in that position, but even then you shouldn't act like you're king shit because you "finished" the submission.


I'm not saying I want to snap someones arm in training or anything but in a fight if the guy doesn't tap I would take some joy in breaking his arm.

It's like if your opponent on the ground won't cover up and is just taking punches if the ref won't step in and the fighter doesn't tap I would take joy in putting him to sleep.

Fedor>ALL have you put a guy to sleep before? I did in training because he didn't tap. And I was worried about him and made sure he was ok but I was also pretty pumped about it.

Something about using the techniques you learn as they are supposed to be used is real awesome as long as you aren't being a dick about it and ignoring taps.

I don't know where you train also and this has little to do with Cantwell but there are a ton of gyms, not mine but more old school ones. Where if you stay in an armbar without tapping it's an insult and they will break your arm with no issue.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> I'm not saying I want to snap someones arm in training or anything but in a fight if the guy doesn't tap I would take some joy in breaking his arm.


I find joy when I get a paycheck, not when I cause someone unnecessary prolonged suffering.



bbjd7 said:


> It's like if your opponent on the ground won't cover up and is just taking punches if the ref won't step in and the fighter doesn't tap I would take joy in putting him to sleep.


Once again, I don't see how "joy" can be associated with harming someone in an unnecessary way.



bbjd7 said:


> Fedor>ALL have you put a guy to sleep before? I did in training because he didn't tap. And I was worried about him and made sure he was ok but I was also pretty pumped about it.


Nope, because most people I train with aren't idiots. Once they know they can't get out of my choke they know what's best for them and tap. Not tapping from a choke and not tapping from a lock is entirely different though, so the comparison is somewhat fruitless IMO.



bbjd7 said:


> Something about using the techniques you learn as they are supposed to be used is real awesome as long as you aren't being a dick about it and ignoring taps.


Using techniques as they are supposed to is cool, I agree. But talking about how much you've wanted to break someone's arm after doing it is overkill. Just doing it should have been enough if he really found some form of content over what he did. 



bbjd7 said:


> I don't know where you train also and this has little to do with Cantwell but there are a ton of gyms, not mine but more old school ones. Where if you stay in an armbar without tapping it's an insult and they will break your arm with no issue.


I understand that. I didn't blame Cantwell for breaking Razak's arm, if you read my posts. I blamed him for saying something that makes him look juvenile and unsportsman-like. The sport is trying to maintain an image of its fighters as respectable and respectful, making sadomasochistic claims to the mainstream viewer only upholds the stereotype that MMA fighters are bloodthirsty thugs.


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## LV 2 H8 U (Nov 7, 2006)

Fedor>all said:


> I've trained with former soldiers and police officers, while the soldiers are no longer active.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know I said I was done, but I have to respond to this. Training with cops and former soldiers is way different than training with active SF soldiers. If you need to think of me as a pedophile to feel better then OK, but it doesn't change the fact that your full of 5hit. And further more I didn't mean to hurt your little boy feelings. I just meant it's hard to take you serious after looking at your geeky pics. Sorry boy.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

This is something that is honestly personal opinion so I'm not going to get to deep into debating it however I'll just say to do actually use the armbar full force in his UFC debut has got to be awesome. And I'm sure he's wondered what it is like to break an arm in armbar as long as he's been training.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> I know I said I was done, but I have to respond to this. Training with cops and former soldiers is way different than training with active SF soldiers.


Not really when they've only been inactive a year, but thanks for pretending like you have a clue, as always. :thumbsup: 




LV 2 H8 U said:


> If you need to think of me as a pedophile to feel better then OK, but it doesn't change the fact that your full of 5hit.


What have I said that makes you think I'm "full of shit"? I just inverted your judgement of me based-on my appearance to illustrate a point. I may not look like I train, but neither do Royce Gracie or Kenny Florian. 



LV 2 H8 U said:


> And further more I didn't mean to hurt you little boy feelings. I just meant it's hard to take you serious after looking at your geeky pics. Sorry boy.


You didn't hurt my feelings, why would I take what you say about me seriously? I'm entirely fine with who I am, and you're the only person that seems to have a problem with that, which indicates an insecurity on your part. :dunno:



bbjd7 said:


> This is something that is honestly personal opinion so I'm not going to get to deep into debating it however I'll just say to do actually use the armbar full force in his UFC debut has got to be awesome. And I'm sure he's wondered what it is like to break an arm in armbar as long as he's been training.


Everyone wonders "what it's like" to finish the submission in training. Either way, you beat your opponent and that should be gratifying enough, IMO.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

BJJ wasn't created for the purpose of "breaking" people's limbs.

Jiu Jitsu is a *discipline* just like Karate or TKD or Judo.

You don't get taught to break someone's arm. You get taught to put them in a SUBMISSION. If you have to break their arm then do it, but it's the last resort. That's why it's called a submission, instead of a "bone breaker".

The skill lies in actually getting the guy in the SUBMISSION and making him SUBMIT. There is no skill in actually breaking the limb. All you do is add pressure after you used your skill to get him in the position.

In legit competition, as long as you have no bad blood or history with your opponent, there is no reason whatsoever to be happy about potentially ending the other guys career. In a street fight, where you might need BJJ to save your life, or maybe against a guy who has done something to deserve it, then yea it would be cool. Not in a sport though. 

He can think what he wants I don't care but you can't act like that and expect to be called a professional, and a giant LOL to the guy who keeps saying Cantwell showed no disrespect to his opponent.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I can understand that Fedor>ALL but I think he was just very excited about the situation and wanted to share how he was feeling I don't think he was trying to rub it in his face.

WL2FU the armbar was created to break an arm.

Submissions weren't around when BJJ was created. The point was to break limbs and put opponents to sleep.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

LV 2 H8 U said:


> I know I said I was done, but I have to respond to this. Training with cops and former soldiers is way different than training with active SF soldiers. If you need to think of me as a pedophile to feel better then OK, but it doesn't change the fact that your full of 5hit. And further more I didn't mean to hurt your little boy feelings. I just meant it's hard to take you serious after looking at your geeky pics. Sorry boy.


You had to respond with more juvenile insults? Seems rather unnecessary.


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## Where'stheCrow? (Nov 28, 2007)

Cantwell had every right to break his arm, but the comments were unnecessary. It made him out to sound like one of the "thugs" that proponents against MMA want you to believe all mma fighters are. People have differences of opinion, but I thought he sounded like a douche as well.

To those that were comparing this to a KO: I think the difference is we see KO's all the time and are desensitized to it, where a bone snapping can make you cringe because it is far more uncommon in mma fights. That moron should have tapped and we could have avoided this entire debate.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> I can understand that Fedor>ALL but I think he was just very excited about the situation and wanted to share how he was feeling I don't think he was trying to rub it in his face.


Razak was talking a lot of shit before the fight, so I really wouldn't be surprised if that was a reason Cantwell enjoyed putting him on the sidelines for what could be a year. That still doesn't justify it to me though, personally.


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

I don't think it's about feeling joy that he broke someone's arm, it's the excitement like I said before. He was pumped as anybody else would be. If you say you never fantasized about breaking someones bones during a fight or getting a brutal ko finish, it's complete bs.

I think we're all giving tooo much thought to this, it's really nothing.


----------



## OsborneMcCarty (Aug 26, 2008)

We (Jared, Matt and myself) agree that Cantwell did everything right during the fight. Al-Hassan was too stubborn to tap so Steve did what he had to do.

We don't agree with Steve's comments after the fight about "always wanting to do that". It's low class and not appropriate for a professional athlete.

Please understand this though. Steve is only 22 years old. He's a fighter not a politician. Although he's a very friendly person, he lacks in social skills a bit but makes up for it in fighting skills. This was his first UFC fight (after competing in WEC for awhile) and I believe the nerves and the adrenaline clouded his judgment and he probably regretted saying that a few minutes later. He WILL learn from this. Please don't read too much into it and give him some slack. We all remember saying stupid things when we were young. I know I did.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

OsborneMcCarty said:


> We (Jared, Matt and myself) agree that Cantwell did everything right during the fight. Al-Hassan was too stubborn to tap so Steve did what he had to do.
> 
> We don't agree with Steve's comments after the fight about "always wanting to do that". It's low class and not appropriate for a professional athlete.
> 
> Please understand this though. Steve is only 22 years old. He's a fighter not a politician. Although he's a very friendly person, he lacks in social skills a bit but makes up for it in fighting skills. This was his first UFC fight (after competing in WEC for awhile) and I believe the nerves and the adrenaline clouded his judgment and he probably regretted saying that a few minutes later. He WILL learn from this. Please don't read too much into it and give him some slack. We all remember saying stupid things when we were young. I know I did.


Good point but at the same time it's kinda flawed cuz he did continue to brag even later on in the post fight conferences.



bbjd7 said:


> WL2FU the armbar was created to break an arm.
> 
> Submissions weren't around when BJJ was created. The point was to break limbs and put opponents to sleep.


You do realize that makes no sense right? BJJ is an offshoot of Japanese Jiu Jitsu, of course submissions existed before BJJ was created. You think back in the day before "submissions were invented" that when you trained BJJ and practiced that no one ever submitted? They just went straight into breaking the dudes arm or whatever? Do you know what "submission" actually means?


Even so, you guys still ain't getting what I'm saying. I don't care if he takes joy in doing that kinda shit in a legit competition, that's his own sick perrogative. And it's not like he broke the dude's arm as soon as he locked it in. The reason I think he is a douche is because he is being completely classless about the whole situation on national tv.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

D.P. said:


> I don't think it's about feeling joy that he broke someone's arm, it's the excitement like I said before. He was pumped as anybody else would be. If you say you never fantasized about breaking someones bones during a fight or getting a brutal ko finish, it's complete bs.
> 
> I think we're all giving tooo much thought to this, it's really nothing.


I've envisioned myself submitting, choking out, or brutally KOing someone, but I can honestly say I've never thought about breaking someone's limbs. 

Razak's got balls, but he certainly doesn't have brains.


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## Tango87 (Oct 17, 2006)

TheGamefather said:


> Don't you think theres a better way to look at BJJ training than that? I'm not saying I wouldn't break a guys arm if he absolutley refused to tap, but I would look at it as an unfortunate nessesity and feel bad that the guy didn't understand he needed to tap. I think your drive to injur another persons pride is a form of fear.


I understand what you are saying and I would feel bad. But as a BJJ fighter the guy suld have tapped. Why is the guy that did the move being blamed? It wasn't a surprise that he had the armbar. In training I NEVER drive to injure another classmate EVER!!! I would never want to do that. But curiousity has me thinking of what it would be like if someone didn't tap. 

Is it Cantrell's responsibility to let go of the hold because this guy wants to be tough and prideful? No.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> Good point but at the same time it's kinda flawed cuz he did continue to brag even later on in the post fight conferences.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let me rephrase the purpose of the armbar was to break an arm when it was invented not to get an opponent to quit.

I know what Submission means but the purpose of the armbar was to break the arm just like the purpose of a choke is to put someone to sleep.

I understand that you feel that way all I'm saying is that I think he was just sharing how he felt I don't think he is a bad guy or was trying to be mean spirited.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

Tango87 said:


> I understand what you are saying and I would feel bad. But as a BJJ fighter the guy suld have tapped. Why is the guy that did the move being blamed? It wasn't a surprise that he had the armbar. In training I NEVER drive to injure another classmate EVER!!! I would never want to do that. But curiousity has me thinking of what it would be like if someone didn't tap.
> 
> Is it Cantrell's responsibility to let go of the hold because this guy wants to be tough and prideful? No.


Most of us are just saying that Cantwell's comments were classless, not the act of breaking Razak's arm itself.


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## TheGamefather (Sep 8, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> I find joy when I get a paycheck, not when I cause someone unnecessary prolonged suffering.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for your post mate, good to know I didn't just imagine honor in fighting.


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> I've envisioned myself submitting, choking out, or brutally KOing someone, but I can honestly say I've never thought about breaking someone's limbs.


It's the same thing though, you would definitely be pumped and excited doing any of those things, and there isn't anything wrong with that.

If we're gonna say anybody's a douche, it should be Razak for being an idiot and not submitting to an obviously brutal submission hold.


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## Tango87 (Oct 17, 2006)

sk double i said:


> So just bc YOU have never heard of his name, he shouldn't be prideful? There are so many people out there who have sacrificed a lot for this sport, maybe you dont see their names on UFC cards but it doesnt mean a certain fighter hasn't earned his right to be prideful. You have no idea what Al-Hassan or any other fighter has done to earn a spot in the UFC or any other promotion. Fighting in smaller shows, the BJJ and wrestling tourneys, countless hours in the gym, blood, sweat, tears...


Ok, well he can be prideful all he wants... Now he's a prideful dumbass that has to wait for his arm to heal to compete again. I'm sure he's worked his ass off but does that make it ok to be stupid? So what do you suggest? Cantrell to release the hold? LEt him back up and say, "Oh I'm sorry, let's start over and I won't use submissions because you're dumbass and won't tap." C'mon they are professionals.


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## TheGamefather (Sep 8, 2008)

bbjd7 said:


> Let me rephrase the purpose of the armbar was to break an arm when it was invented not to get an opponent to quit.
> 
> I know what Submission means but the purpose of the armbar was to break the arm just like the purpose of a choke is to put someone to sleep.
> 
> I understand that you feel that way all I'm saying is that I think he was just sharing how he felt I don't think he is a bad guy or was trying to be mean spirited.


lol, it's not really funny but I laughed anyhow... just imagined someone killing a guy with a choke, then getting so excited about it because thats what the move was designed to do. 

"I didn't really want to kill him, I've just always wanted to use my skills to thier full potential..."



Tango87 said:


> I understand what you are saying and I would feel bad. But as a BJJ fighter the guy suld have tapped. Why is the guy that did the move being blamed? It wasn't a surprise that he had the armbar. In training I NEVER drive to injure another classmate EVER!!! I would never want to do that. But curiousity has me thinking of what it would be like if someone didn't tap.
> 
> Is it Cantrell's responsibility to let go of the hold because this guy wants to be tough and prideful? No.



Yeah, what was up with Hassan... If I didn't know better I'd think he'd never had a serious fight before, it looked like he didn't even know he was supposed to tap, sitting there so surprised with his broken arm...

Why didn't you tap brotha, lol? Hope it all works out.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

It's not about that. anyone who chokes someone after they pass out is a dick. And should be thrown in jail.


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

TheGamefather said:


> lol, it's not really funny but I laughed anyhow... just imagined someone killing a guy with a choke, then getting so excited about it because thats what the move was designed to do.
> 
> "I didn't really want to kill him, I've just always wanted to use my skills to thier full potential..."


Ok, death is a whole other situation, you can't even use that to explain yourself because it's irrelevant, NOBODY is gonna do that if they kill someone...obviously

We're talking about a completely legal submission hold, that is originally designed to break your arm (as bbjd has said). Cantewll did what he had to do, and was pumpedd about it. BIG DEAL...


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## TheGamefather (Sep 8, 2008)

D.P. said:


> Ok, death is a whole other situation, you can't even use that to explain yourself because it's irrelevant, NOBODY is gonna do that if they kill someone...obviously
> 
> We're talking about a completely legal submission hold, that is originally designed to break your arm (as bbjd has said). Cantewll did what he had to do, and was pumpedd about it. BIG DEAL...


Well you draw your line of human decency at killing someone I guess. I draw mine before the act of enjoying seriously injuring a competitor. 

And yeah, it is a big deal, relativly speaking.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

TheGamefather said:


> Thanks for your post mate, good to know I didn't just imagine honor in fighting.


No problem. :thumb02:




D.P. said:


> It's the same thing though, you would definitely be pumped and excited doing any of those things, and there isn't anything wrong with that.


Yeah, but the difference is knocking someone out or choking them unconscious is less likely to effect their lives outside of the ring. Serious injuries like arm breaks/leg breaks/knee injuries may not ever completely heal, and could cause an early retirement. 

Am I the only one who gets satisfaction from just making someone tap? That's enough to me, I don't need to break an arm to know what it would feel like, I've seen it before in other sports.




D.P. said:


> If we're gonna say anybody's a douche, it should be Razak for being an idiot and not submitting to an obviously brutal submission hold.


Oh he's definitely a douche, you won't see me defending him, especially when he made it seem like he was a ground wizard lol.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

There is satisfaction in making a guy tap no doubt I can just see how he would be excited about breaking the arm.


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> There is satisfaction in making a guy tap no doubt I can just see how he would be excited about breaking the arm.


That's where our personal ethics diverge then, I guess.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> Yeah, but the difference is knocking someone out or choking them unconscious is less likely to effect their lives outside of the ring. Serious injuries like arm breaks/leg breaks/knee injuries may not ever completely heal, and could cause an early retirement.


Concussions and oxygen deprivation damage can last your whole life, too. Brains rarely if ever regenerate killed tissue, it just isn't as obvious until you have racked up a bunch of such injuries and aged a little.


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> Yeah, but the difference is knocking someone out or choking them unconscious is less likely to effect their lives outside of the ring. Serious injuries like arm breaks/leg breaks/knee injuries may not ever completely heal, and could cause an early retirement.


That's completely up to the opponent, hence Razak's broken arm.




Fedor>all said:


> Am I the only one who gets satisfaction from just making someone tap? That's enough to me, I don't need to break an arm to know what it would feel like, I've seen it before in other sports.


It isn't about the satisfaction, like I said twice before, it's excitement, adrenaline, he was pumped. 





Fedor>all said:


> Oh he's definitely a douche, you won't see me defending him, especially when he made it seem like he was a ground wizard lol.


Yea, idk wth he thought he as doing rolling around like that :dunno:


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

No problem then my friend


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

D.P. said:


> That's completely up to the opponent, hence Razak's broken arm.


I agree, I just don't think that Cantwell's comments represent the sport well.



D.P. said:


> It isn't about the satisfaction, like I said twice before, it's excitement, adrenaline, he was pumped.


Frank Mir broke both Roberto Traven's and Tim Sylvia's arms, he didn't talk about how much he enjoyed it in his post-fight interviews though. I could understand if it was an adrenaline slip-up by Cantwell, but according to WL2FU, he was going on about it even in the post-fight conference. 




D.P. said:


> Yea, idk wth he thought he as doing rolling around like that :dunno:


Well he was trying to step over Cantwell to create some space to pull his arm out which explains the rolling. But once he realized he realized it was locked, he should have tapped. He doesn't have anyone to blame but himself.


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

TheGamefather said:


> Well you draw your line of human decency at killing someone I guess. I draw mine before the act of enjoying seriously injuring a competitor.
> 
> And yeah, it is a big deal, relativly speaking.


I'm only going to say this ONE more time. It isn't about joy, it's about the excitement, and the adrenaline When something like that happens. Again...not joy, not satisfaction..


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

HexRei said:


> Concussions and oxygen deprivation damage can last your whole life, too. Brains rarely if ever regenerate killed tissue, it just isn't as obvious until you have racked up a bunch of such injuries and aged a little.


That's true, but those are generally accumulative. One bad break could potentially never heal, or repeatedly occur throughout a career, ending it. Bas Rutten's career was cut short because of knee injuries, etc, and I think that's a shame. 

MMA wants its fighters to be around as long as possible, so I'm sure promoters are not too pleased when fighters are put on the sidelines for extended periods of time with pride being the only reason behind it.


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## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Fedor>ALL just a point, I believe I have heard Mir brag about breaking Sylvia's arm a number of times.

I could be wrong though. He also would of course not brag about it in the post fight interview he had just won the HW title he had other things on his mind.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> That's true, but those are generally accumulative. One bad break could potentially never heal, or repeatedly occur throughout a career, ending it. Bas Rutten's career was cut short because of knee injuries, etc, and I think that's a shame.


True, although plenty of fighters have a good long career before having to retire from joint injuries. Plenty of fighters are back in 6 months or less. Bas' knees also looked fine to me in his last bout vs Villareal, which he won practically entirely through kicks. In any case, I always thought he really retired because of how brutally Kevin Randleman beat him up in their title bout. Why not retire after a gimme decision like that, preserve your legacy?


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## boondoxaint (Apr 9, 2008)

the guy didn't tap and got what he deserved. but on the other side of the coin, he makes for a bad representative of the sport. didn't wish they guy well or anything.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Fedor>all said:


> MMA wants its fighters to be around as long as possible, so I'm sure promoters are not too pleased when fighters are put on the sidelines for extended periods of time with pride being the only reason behind it.


Not counting the fact that promoters want fighters to show a good image of the sport and promote the positive aspects of it and not the negative ones. People tend to forget MMA was banned not long ago for exactly what millions of viewers (including many newly recruited fans after UFC 91) have seen yesterday on national TV. Again, doing it is ok and it's part of the sport but be proud, happy about it and showing no remorse afterwards was a shame. It's just giving more arguments to all the MMA haters to reject it even more or ban it again. I wish Cantwell will never make it in the UFC, MMA doesn't need representatives like this SOB. Look at Fedor, Randy, GSP, Franklin, Wandy, A.Silva, etc.. All champs and all classy, respectful dudes that would never say something like that after a fight. That's the kind of athletes we need to show a good image and for MMA to finally become a legit, mainstream sport one day.


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## JayDubs911 (May 22, 2008)

i don't think you should be allowed to tap, if you get in a submission, you should have a bone broken or leave unconscious.


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

JayDubs911 said:


> i don't think you should be allowed to tap, if you get in a submission, you should have a bone broken or leave unconscious.


Ok..that's just ridiculous :confused02:


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## Chrisl972 (Oct 5, 2006)

D.P. said:


> Ok..that's just ridiculous :confused02:


Yeah, I thought so too.


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## JT42 (Dec 31, 2006)

Jeez, 26 pages?! Obviously a hot topic. I agree the broken arm was Al-Hussan's fault for not tapping. However, I think it was totally classless the way Cantwell acted after the fight. Saying he has been wanting to break someone's arm for a long time... 

Just my opinion but I thought it was a jerk move and am now a Cantwell hater


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## Jundon! (Sep 10, 2008)

Xerxes said:


> Not counting the fact that promoters want fighters to show a good image of the sport and promote the positive aspects of it and not the negative ones. People tend to forget MMA was banned not long ago for exactly what millions of viewers (including many newly recruited fans after UFC 91) have seen yesterday on national TV. Again, doing it is ok and it's part of the sport but be proud, happy about it and showing no remorse afterwards was a shame. It's just giving more arguments to all the MMA haters to reject it even more or ban it again. I wish Cantwell will never make it in the UFC, MMA doesn't need representatives like this SOB. Look at Fedor, Randy, GSP, Franklin, Wandy, A.Silva, etc.. All champs and all classy, respectful dudes that would never say something like that after a fight. That's the kind of athletes we need to show a good image and for MMA to finally become a legit, mainstream sport one day.


You take this shit way too seriously. 'I wish Cantwell will never make it in the UFC' Guess what, he already has you idiot. It's not his fault that Al-Hassan refused to tap and get his arm broken, were you expecting Cantwell to let his arm go because he wouldn't give in? Only people like you notice his comments (which are completely harmless, anyone can say anything when they are full of adrenaline.) and take offense to it. 

I bet you are one of those people who also took offense to Bisping's comment saying his plan was to take Leben to a Decision.


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## Jundon! (Sep 10, 2008)

*people are blowing this wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy out of proportion, the dude was just happy he won, he wasn't really out of line at all.*


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## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> Fedor>ALL just a point, I believe I have heard Mir brag about breaking Sylvia's arm a number of times.


It's possible, but I didn't see or read of him boasting about how gratifying breaking Tim's arm was immediately after the fight. Frank Mir's a bad example though because I think he's a douche anyway lol.



bbjd7 said:


> I could be wrong though. He also would of course not brag about it in the post fight interview he had just won the HW title he had other things on his mind.


Possibly, but winning your octagon debut by stoppage in the first round is a big deal, especially to someone who is only 22.



HexRei said:


> True, although plenty of fighters have a good long career before having to retire from joint injuries. Plenty of fighters are back in 6 months or less.


True.



HexRei said:


> Bas' knees also looked fine to me in his last bout vs Villareal, which he won practically entirely through kicks.


The thing with Bas though, was that he was always getting injured in training. I remember him saying how he felt great when he came back against Ruben, but he had chronic pain that was ultimately preventing him from staying in the sport. 



HexRei said:


> In any case, I always thought he really retired because of how brutally Kevin Randleman beat him up in their title bout. Why not retire after a gimme decision like that, preserve your legacy?


Yeah, that was a pretty bad decision, I don't think it damaged Bas' legacy though.



Xerxes said:


> Not counting the fact that promoters want fighters to show a good image of the sport and promote the positive aspects of it and not the negative ones. People tend to forget MMA was banned not long ago for exactly what millions of viewers (including many newly recruited fans after UFC 91) have seen yesterday on national TV. Again, doing it is ok and it's part of the sport but be proud, happy about it and showing no remorse afterwards was a shame. It's just giving more arguments to all the MMA haters to reject it even more or ban it again. I wish Cantwell will never make it in the UFC, MMA doesn't need representatives like this SOB. Look at Fedor, Randy, GSP, Franklin, Wandy, A.Silva, etc.. All champs and all classy, respectful dudes that would never say something like that after a fight. That's the kind of athletes we need to show a good image and for MMA to finally become a legit, mainstream sport one day.


Good points.



JayDubs911 said:


> i don't think you should be allowed to tap, if you get in a submission, you should have a bone broken or leave unconscious.


Great joke.:thumb02:


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## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

JT42 said:


> Jeez, 26 pages?! Obviously a hot topic. I agree the broken arm was Al-Hussan's fault for not tapping. However, I think it was totally classless the way Cantwell acted after the fight. Saying he has been wanting to break someone's arm for a long time...
> 
> Just my opinion but I thought it was a jerk move and am now a Cantwell hater


This thread is just 26 pages of worthless bickering.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Wise said:


> I would have done the same thing. If youre dumb enough not to tap you get what you deserve. This is fighting not ******* hello kitty island adventure.


Hello Kitty is one of the last things I expected to be referenced on here, unless you were greeting your woman's lady parts. 

It's an unfortunate situation and there is an assumed risk on either side the moment the fighters step into the octagon.


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## cplmac (Nov 14, 2007)

MJB23 said:


> This thread is just 26 pages of worthless bickering.


I'm pretty impressed this thread reached that length that fast. A comment like that is going to generate some heat though.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Jundon! said:


> You take this shit way too seriously. 'I wish Cantwell will never make it in the UFC' Guess what, he already has you idiot. It's not his fault that Al-Hassan refused to tap and get his arm broken, were you expecting Cantwell to let his arm go because he wouldn't give in? Only people like you notice his comments (which are completely harmless, anyone can say anything when they are full of adrenaline.) and take offense to it.
> 
> I bet you are one of those people who also took offense to Bisping's comment saying his plan was to take Leben to a Decision.


I meant make it as a champ/do well in his division, obviously everyone understood here except you. 

Adrenaline? BS, if you listened to his post-fight interview you'd already know it wasn't because of that. The dude said he wanted to break an arm for 5 and half years and it was awesome that he finally got to do it. Obviously you're 2 steps behind of everybody. 

Half of your post is off-topic, the other half is BS. Pre-fight trash talking to sell a fight is ok in this business and it's part of the game, everyone knows that. But once the fight is over, as a fighter you should at least congratulate/respect your opponent and if he's hurt, instead of being a douche like that, it's always classy to go check on him to see if he's fine to show people this is a sport, a game and not what people of your kind want it to be: "Mortal Kombat".

MMA will never go mainstream and fighters will never get a decent pay with this kind of douchey attitude. If you can't understand that then you are the idiot here.


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## JayDubs911 (May 22, 2008)

D.P. said:


> Ok..that's just ridiculous :confused02:


Yah i was jokin, just seeing if you guys would beleive it.


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## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

It's a real shame that Cantwell made such thuggish and disrespectful post fight remarks. Such remarks serve only to reinforce the main stream misconception of MMA fighters as sadistic goons. 
Dana White understands the power of "Image" and he would be furious at Cantwell for compromising the UFC brand and it's push toward mainstream acceptance. Cantwell should be made an example of.

Gamburian vs Mohr is a good example of how Cantwell should have spoken and behaved post fight.


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## BobbyLashley (Dec 12, 2008)

JayDubs911 said:


> i don't think you should be allowed to tap, if you get in a submission, you should have a bone broken or leave unconscious.



That's funny stuff, it is a man's sport after all. no give-sies up-sies.


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## _redruM_ (Dec 30, 2007)

I have to agree with the original sentiment that Steve Cantwell is a douche.

When I first got into MMA, it was for a variety of reasons. I really appreciated how it was an intense competition in the utmost sense of the word. You are tested in your ability and knowledge of many different arts, as well as tested in your mental faculties and determination to win. I also appreciated guys like Georges St Pierre and Rich Franklin who one can feel good about looking up to not only for their prowess, but their class and strength of character in showing respect and compassion for their opponents.

Now here is a reason I _didn't_ get into MMA. With the specific interest and/or intention of hurting people. If I wanted to see that I would simply go downtown and watch any of many back alley fights that may break out between people who, quite obviously, made some bad choices in life. 

That, to me, is the difference maker and why I really loved MMA. In recent years, unfortunately, I've had to watch my beloved MMA raped by moronic would-be tough guys and popular media. Don't even get me started on that 'Never Back Down' movie released too long ago, because honestly it was a pretty sad thing to me and I could easily devote an hour of rambling just to that. Couple that with the fact that now local bars everywhere are filled with drunken douchebags yelling 'knock that ***** out' at every ufc pay-per-view, and I'm pretty depressed about MMA in general.

The point I am trying to make here is that Steve Cantwell and others like him are only making things worse. Much worse. His comments did nothing but glorify and validate anyone who takes pleasure in hurting someone, or more disturbingly, jeopardizing their career and changing their life. That is the difference between someone who plays or watches for the beauty and complexity of the game, and a potential murderer/rapist/general piece of shit.

I can't say why Steve Cantwell said what he did, but any possibility I see is bad. Maybe it was because he thought it would make him look like a tough guy, which is incredibly stupid. Let me make it really clear: *if you think comments like that or a similar attitude make you a tough guy, stick to your backyard trailer park brawling faggotry and try to grow the **** up sometime in the future.*Maybe he genuinely felt that way, and wasn't trying to convey any particular image. Ok, that's even worse. As I stated previously, such interests are usually shared by rapists or murderers. Or maybe it really was just a misjudgment among his adrenaline, however unlikely it may seem at this point.

Regardless of _why_ he said it, the important thing is that the effect it has is more serious than some of you who pass it off realize. It validates those with the opinion that MMA is human cock fighting. It validates potential fighters who want to get into it for all the wrong reasons, who would otherwise end up in jail where, frankly, they belong. It validates parents or family/loved ones who become disappointed and unsupportive of fighters who want to get into it for the _right_ reasons. Finally, it continues to **** the MMA that I used to feel so attached to. 

Didn't want to ramble like that, but in all my time browsing here this is the first time I really felt inclined to post something. If it offends/gets me banned/whatever, I can't say I'm too concerned as I probably wouldn't post again anyway. However, I hope more people take things like this more seriously as I do believe the effects to be more consequential than most realize.


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## screenamesuck (Jun 29, 2006)

Are you guys still talking about this???? Man move on


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## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

ALRIGHT FOR ALL YOU DUMBASSES WHO KEEP CLAIMING "WTF SHOULD HAVE CANTWELL DONE?? LET THE ARM GO, NOT HIS FAULY AL HASSAN DIDNT TAP" THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ACTUALLY BREAKAGE OF THE ARM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone knows that it is hassan's fault for not tapping. Cantwell did everything he should have and no one can blame him for that. What we are pissed about is that he didnt even go and check to see if the guy is ok and then further more he said he was happy that he broke the guys arm. You guys are idiots if you think thats just trash talk. What did jens pulver and bj pen do after they fought their grudge match??? they basically hugged and made up because there is no need to talk trash after the fight. Pre fight trash can never be after a fight is over, thats just stupid. Its not like your trying to hype the fight up after its ended for crist sakes. Cantwell is a douch and i hope someone seriously messes the guy up because he is seriously messed up in the head.


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## Grotty (Jul 21, 2006)

justmac333 said:


> He said he's been waiting so long to break someone's arm in a fight. I understand wanting to win, but going into every fight with the intention of breaking somebody's arm is shit. I think he should be set up against the best light heavy's and just have his arms broken over and over again until he decides he can't take it anymore and quits.


I suppose you think fighters that say they want to KO their opponents are douchebags too?, all fighters know that there will be a consequence if they get caught in a Sub, the reason subs hurt is because the body is telling the mind if this doesnt stop its gonna end badly.
Its a fight and during which both fighters are out to hurt each other, it only gets in the "douchebag" region in my eyes when a fighter taps and the sub is kept on too long e.g Penn vs lil Evil, or Babalu etc 
Hasan had every opportunity to tap so lighten up.


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## Flak (Jul 1, 2007)

It's no different to a guy saying he wants to knock someone cold.

What? Tramatic brain injury is cool because it doesn't make people squirm? Whatever wussies


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Tap, snap, or nap.


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## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

This thread fails because people are not reading before they post and are just repeating themselves.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

I've read the whole thread, cowboy.


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