# What if Fedor loses?



## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

I dont want this to happen but still what if he does?

I think not much will change for me, he will be still the best to participate in MMA.


Also did anyone had feeling that Fedor got a lil more slower than few years ago?
I am talking about fight with rogers, even though he dominated the fight.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Rusko said:


> I dont want this to happen but still what if he does?
> 
> I think not much will change for me, he will be still the best to participate in MMA.
> 
> ...


He has been dominate and is still throwing nasty shots, idk about slow...

But if Fedor loses to someone like Werdum then i see a little change in the HW
rankings.

And we would never get to see the Brock Fedor fight, which upsets me deeply.

But for all we know even if both these dudes never lose, we might still miss it....


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## Banana Pants (Feb 20, 2010)

Fedor does not need to worry about Rogers he needs to worry about fighting Fabricio Werdum. Fabricio Werdum is an ADCC champion. He is a world class, phenomenal, top of the heap BJJ specialist. Werdum will have the most dangerous guard of anyone Fedor has ever faced.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

Banana Pants said:


> Fedor does not need to worry about Rogers he needs to worry about fighting Fabricio Werdum. Fabricio Werdum is an ADCC champion. He is a world class, phenomenal, top of the heap BJJ specialist. Werdum will have the most dangerous guard of anyone Fedor has ever faced.



I wasn't impressed with his last fight....

Fedor is on a different level.... AND i thought he lost that fight with Big Silva....

He took some really nasty shots that fight, that i dont see Fedor being as forgiving in the Haymakers.

And i think Brett Rogers would take him just fine....

Id rather see Fedor vs Overeem imo


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

No offense to the OP but does anyone notice that damn near every Fedor fight there is a "what if Fedor loses" thread...

I think I could even trace this back to PRIDE.. lol


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

this could cause major problems for the SF HW division, right now SF is building up a real top quality division, but all it takes is Fedor to loose to someone, then I can see it now, UFC moves in and signs the person who beat Fedor.

I hope this does not happen because it would cause more problems in the SF HW division and the world standing of MMA HW's, but I think this is going to be a threat that SF is constantly under.


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## swedish_fighter (Jul 12, 2009)

If Fedor was too lose it would give dana a better shot at thrashing Fedor and his legacy..

It will probably go like: he can't beat the guys outside the UFC?? Brock would kill Fedor bla bla bs.. :thumbsup:


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

He wont close thread....:thumbsup:


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

Rusko said:


> I dont want this to happen but still what if he does?


It depends radically on how it happens.

If he fights Overeem and gets tooled standing up, or if he fights Werdum and gets tooled on the mat, then it will definitely change my outlook on where he is in the MMA world right now.

Of course, I think both of those scenarios are pretty unlikely, but whenever a fighter loses a convincing loss, it will yank him from the #1 slot.



> Also did anyone had feeling that Fedor got a lil more slower than few years ago?


No, actually. All three of his fights showed that he still has the power to put people down with one shot and that he has the speed to land that brutal shot from nowhere.

Is he moving like he did against CroCop? I don't know. It's hard to tell when no one is really pushing his standup in the way that CroCop did, but the way that Fedor's been working in the clinch seems pretty much the same as always. He's been patient and devastating when he makes his move, and that (in my opinion) is what has always characterized his game.


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## mtt_c (Jun 15, 2008)

I think that would be the first sign of the apocalypse.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

I don't think that Fedor is still the same fighter he used to be. He is still young, but I just don't see how he can keep his motivation for much longer. He already archived everything in this Sport.. 
If he would fight in the UFC, he would not be undefeated anymore.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

_RIVAL_ said:


> No offense to the OP but does anyone notice that damn near every Fedor fight there is a "what if Fedor loses" thread...
> 
> I think I could even trace this back to PRIDE.. lol


You know the first time nobody bothers he will lose its bound to happen. Nobody will do it cause he is fighting somebody like Minowman and he'll heel hook him.


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## JT42 (Dec 31, 2006)

For me, I would be ok with Fedor losing one at this point in his career as long as it was to a high quality opponent and as long as it was in a reasonable way. I felt this way when he fought Arlovski since at that time Andrei was still very feared at HW.

I personally think Fedor has reached a point in his career where he doesnt feel threatened or very motivated. I think a loss could be a good thing for SF because whomever beat him would be a star which SF could build up and Fedor could easily work back to the top which would create drama and interest. 

Also a loss would likely make dealing with Fedor's management team considerably easier


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

JT42 said:


> For me, I would be ok with Fedor losing one at this point in his career as long as it was to a high quality opponent and as long as it was in a reasonable way. I felt this way when he fought Arlovski since at that time Andrei was still very feared at HW.
> 
> I personally think Fedor has reached a point in his career where he doesnt feel threatened or very motivated. I think a loss could be a good thing for SF because whomever beat him would be a star which SF could build up and Fedor could easily work back to the top which would create drama and interest.
> 
> Also a loss would likely make dealing with Fedor's management team considerably easier


I think you raised a good point that if he were to lose that that would open up the negotiations and decrease M-1 Globals leverage....:thumbsup: I just dont see it happening and I dont think he isn't motivated, I just think thats his demeanor.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> He wont close thread....:thumbsup:


Funny I knew ^^^this^^^ post was coming......

If Fedor loses so what. Everybody loses eventually. And Fedor already has a loss on his record a bullshit loss but it is still a loss.

Fedor loses, the world will keep turning unless you are a Fedor nuthugger then you dont show your face on any MMA forum ever again because your boy lost.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

JimmyJames said:


> Funny I knew ^^^this^^^ post was coming......
> 
> If Fedor loses so what. Everybody loses eventually. And Fedor already has a loss on his record a bullshit loss but it is still a loss.
> 
> *Fedor loses, the world will keep turning unless you are a Fedor nuthugger then you dont show your face on any MMA forum ever again because your boy lost.*


 
Was this @ me????:confused02: BTW....Fedor isnt just everybody....


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Was this @ me????:confused02: BTW....Fedor isnt just everybody....


That was aimed at those annoying Fedor nuthuggers that think he is some sorta MMA god.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

JimmyJames said:


> That was aimed at those annoying Fedor nuthuggers that think he is some sorta MMA god.


 
I think if we were going to appoint a "GOD" to MMA.....currently he would own that title.....but yeah I hear ya...thing with him is he seems disinterested but really is totally focused, this isn't a pro Fedor rant just saying, he may go down as the best ever....


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> I think if we were going to appoint a "GOD" to MMA.....currently he would own that title.....but yeah I hear ya...thing with him is he seems disinterested but really is totally focused, this isn't a pro Fedor rant just saying, he may go down as the best ever....


He is by far the greatest MMArtist in the very short history of the sport. 

I hold nothing against Fedor except his loyality to his business partners at M-1.

I just happen to hate a lot of the ball hugging fans that want to make it seem like he is unbeatable when he already has a loss. 

To be honest I havent seen any posters like that here, but the shitdog contenders forum is full of them. Horrible horrible posters over there.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

i have a serious question.

how could you be the best ever if you competed in what has always been viewed as the worst division, full of one dimensional monsters and sometimes sideshow freaks??

i dunno. the best ever cant be from that era. too many cans compared to what the future holds. he will always be a legend but he will be surpassed, surely.

A few lions already looking at him, he just needs to step off the pedestal and start taking on the best CONSISTENTLY.

What if Nog had avoided a match with the young russian phenom gaining so much buzz just a few short years ago?? what if he refused to fight the best challenger?? would he still have been the best HW out there??

W/E excuses his fans wanna make, i say this. The guys Fedor fights now would only be fighting for RESPECT in the UFC, not belts or legends.

JMO


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

alizio said:


> i have a serious question.
> 
> how could you be the best ever if you competed in what has always been viewed as the worst division, full of one dimensional monsters and sometimes sideshow freaks??
> 
> ...


Fedor is the best so far does that work for ya???

I agree he has had it easy at times but you cant take away what he has accomplished. 

He is the best HW of his era and in the short history of MMA he is the best ever. But that will certainly change as time goes on. Hell I think when GSP retires he will be considered the best ever.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

JimmyJames said:


> He is by far the greatest MMArtist in the very short history of the sport.
> 
> I hold nothing against Fedor except his loyality to his business partners at M-1.
> 
> ...


 
Agreed....M-1 sucks Donkey Balls...



alizio said:


> i have a serious question.
> 
> how could you be the best ever if you competed in what has always been viewed as the worst division, full of one dimensional monsters and sometimes sideshow freaks??
> 
> ...


Aren't you tired of this yet??? I get your not a fan, but everyone they put in front of him he beats, why not the benefit of the doubt.


Serious Question???? Do you think he fears Mir or Brock or any UFC fighters???? He does not....he stepped and owned Rogers who isn't UFC material but I recall you being pretty sure Fedor would lose....Just curious


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Agreed....M-1 sucks Donkey Balls...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 how many times have we been over this?? i never said fedor would lose, i said I HOPE HE LOSES but he is fighting a can. 

Rogers... i dunno. not a huge fan either. definately not a guy the number 1 HW in the world should be fighting.

i dont know Fedor. he is a mystery to me. ppl claim to know him but he speaks thru other ppl most of the time and it seems very cherographed and phony.

i dont know what he is afraid of. i really dont care. all i know is he hasnt fought top competition on a consistent basis in along time, if ever.

the HWs these days, look at the kind of schedule guys like Brock, JDS and Cain are doing.... 3x a year... moving up the rankings and now all 3 will continually just fight top guys.

Thats what i expect out of Fedor if ppl want to call him the best. Being the best isnt about yesterday, its about today. You cant sit on your laurels for years on end and claim to be the best while fighting guys that would just be scratching the upper surface of the UFC.

again, JMO. dont really wanna blow it up. if Fedor fans are fine with him fighting Werdum then Rogers again... so be it. 

Ill go watch Brock fight Randy, Mir, Cain, JDS etc aswell as the Duffees and davis' coming up.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

alizio said:


> how many times have we been over this?? i never said fedor would lose, i said I HOPE HE LOSES but he is fighting a can.
> 
> Rogers... i dunno. not a huge fan either. definately not a guy the number 1 HW in the world should be fighting.
> 
> ...


 
Alot...Lmao...:thumbsup:

i hear you, and i know you dont think he is afraid to step. i also dont think he needs to fight as any fights as these up and comer's cuz he is established and paid well for each fight.

I think when people claim to know him they are meaning his character, he is stoic and calm and very true to God. He is humble and that simplicity makes him so attractive to fight fans, have you seen where he lives???? GOD it looks like a slum, he is simple all that matters is his family and i think all those things represent the calm he has in the cage and the lack of charisma out of it.

I def would LOVE to see him in the UFC. So I think he wins against most if not all those heavy weights, it depends on who and when they fight....


I think the best next fight for Cain is JDS.....PERIOD.....I want to more than ever see this fight, i think JDS would win, i respect Cain alot and the points you make about him. I'm not debating you or doubting you JDS is just my humble opinion....:thumb03:

At least, Alizio, we have JDS, MIR, CAIN and Brock, along with Carwin and more in the UFC and they will all eventually fight one another, hopefully one day Fedor enters that mix......

i hope its sooner than later cuz the time that ticks by isn't doing him any favors....


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

alizio said:


> how many times have we been over this?? i never said fedor would lose, i said I HOPE HE LOSES but he is fighting a can.
> 
> Rogers... i dunno. not a huge fan either. definately not a guy the number 1 HW in the world should be fighting.
> 
> ...


Seriously how can you shit on Rogers and use Duffee to argue for the UFC in the same sentence. Big guy hit hard. We saw Duffee get one impressive knock out against a guy who isn't in the UFC anymore and yet is still the toughest guy he has fought. Roger's has proven way more than Duffee. Also Werdum is no joke, he may not be everyone's taste but he won ADCC this year which makes him one of the most dangerous grapplers on the planet.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

the one big mystery about Fedor to me is this.... look at the best in ANY sport... so competitive.... that fire and that want to be the best and beat the best... i just dont see it with Fedor.

To be the best you need to ALWAYS be actively seeking to compete against the best and PROVE to be the best.

Fedor WAS the best. He is definately one of the best still. The best?? I dont know.

As far as JDS vs Cain. Thats the future of the division all in one fight. I would hope it will be a Championship fight tho. Altho i think alot of ppl are overlooking Gonzaga i think JDS is the favorite there just not as big as the odds state.

Toxic, i put Duffee on the end of a long list assuming Brock somehow beat them that Duffee would have ALSO fought 4 or 5 times and might be in line.... get it??? of course there are other guys up and coming and guys we havent even heard of yet who could/would be in the picture by then aswell. it was hypothetical.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

He really hasn't looked that good in his last two outings, it's arguable that he lost the first to Rogers and was getting beat up by Arlovski before he dropped them both. So he still has the power to end fights if the other guy makes a mistake, but unless he is hanging them up soon, I see some guy that clearly has no business beating him getting a win against Fedor, which is unfortunate, but it's how this sport works. Look at Cain and Nog, does anyone think that fight would have looked anything like that, had that been Nog in the Pride days?


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> He really hasn't looked that good in his last two outings, it's arguable that he lost the first to Rogers and was getting beat up by Arlovski before he dropped them both. So he still has the power to end fights if the other guy makes a mistake, but unless he is hanging them up soon, I see some guy that clearly has no business beating him getting a win against Fedor, which is unfortunate, but it's how this sport works. Look at Cain and Nog, does anyone think that fight would have looked anything like that, had that been Nog in the Pride days?



Rogers clearly lost the first round and Arlovski couldnt land anything on Fedor. Sure Arlovski was more active in the fight but he wasnt doing anything to Fedor at all. 

Fedor has some of the best defensive striking currently in MMA. The way he changes levels is just amazing. When was the last time he was even hit hard or seemed to be rocked on his feet?????


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> He really hasn't looked that good in his last two outings, it's arguable that he lost the first to Rogers and was getting beat up by Arlovski before he dropped them both. So he still has the power to end fights if the other guy makes a mistake, but unless he is hanging them up soon, I see some guy that clearly has no business beating him getting a win against Fedor, which is unfortunate, but it's how this sport works. Look at Cain and Nog, does anyone think that fight would have looked anything like that, had that been Nog in the Pride days?


 do you think Lebron James could school on Doctor J???


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

alizio said:


> the one big mystery about Fedor to me is this.... look at the best in ANY sport... so competitive.... that fire and that want to be the best and beat the best... i just dont see it with Fedor.
> 
> To be the best you need to ALWAYS be actively seeking to compete against the best and PROVE to be the best.
> 
> ...


 
When you do something long enough and its second nature its not the same as the younger guys, but Fedor still schools them....same reason Randy fights, he likes to compete, thats why he does the ***** every year as well.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

alizio said:


> the one big mystery about Fedor to me is this.... look at the best in ANY sport... so competitive.... that fire and that want to be the best and beat the best... i just dont see it with Fedor.
> 
> To be the best you need to ALWAYS be actively seeking to compete against the best and PROVE to be the best.
> 
> ...


Here is the problem I have. You say.........



> Fedor WAS the best. He is definately one of the best still. The best?? I dont know.


Why is Fedor still not the best when nobody has proven he isnt still the best?

IMO Fedor is the best till he isnt anymore. And as of today nobody has proven he isnt still the best. Sure he might not be the best anymore but you have to give him the benefit of the doubt till proven otherwise.

I am with you though, cant wait till he loses.........


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

JimmyJames said:


> Rogers clearly lost the first round and Arlovski couldnt land anything on Fedor. Sure Arlovski was more active in the fight but he wasnt doing anything to Fedor at all.
> 
> Fedor has some of the best defensive striking currently in MMA. The way he changes levels is just amazing. When was the last time he was even hit hard or seemed to be rocked on his feet?????


Give Fedor love much? I didn't say Fedor lost the first, I said you could argue he did and a washed up, scared to get hit Arlovski tagged Fedor a couple times before he decide to leap into the air. Was Fedor rocked? I have no clue, not in his head, but he did look flustered and he got tagged right before the push kick ran him into the corner.

I just don't think that fight would have lasted a minute, if that was a younger Fedor.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> Give Fedor love much? I didn't say Fedor lost the first, I said you could argue he did and a washed up, scared to get hit Arlovski tagged Fedor a couple times before he decide to leap into the air. Was Fedor rocked? I have no clue, not in his head, but he did look flustered and he got tagged right before the push kick ran him into the corner.
> 
> I just don't think that fight would have lasted a minute, if that was a younger Fedor.


Love Fedor:sarcastic12:

I just hate it when people spread mistruths about him. Arlovski did nothing to him. Most of the punches he threw didnt even land........ watch the fight again this time without your Fedor Hater glasses on. :thumb02:


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Alizio.....I think the frustrating thing is what we all want to prove to those that doubt Fedor we cant, and it really is more about M-1 Global him being part owner and not being able to deal with Dana....

it's like people want to prove you wrong but cant, so let's just hope he comes to the UFC......ray01:


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I don't see anyone in MMA going a decade without losing in a long, long, LONG time(at least 10 years from now), and I don't see anyone doing so in such a dominating way, considering that almost all of his competiton has been either larger, or MUCH larger than he is, so it's as if he is always fighting at a higher weight class.

He's only human, he will most likely lose before he retires, but at the end of the day, 1 loss does not take away from his legacy and he will always go down as the greatest mixed martial artist ever, unless someone goes 11 years undefeated fighting guys much larger than he is, which like I said, I don't see happening.

If he loses, he drops from the P4P list some, of course, but that happens to every "greatest" of sports. You cannot stay #1 in the world all your life, but your legacy as the greatest ever in a sport stays until otherwise unproven, which, if ever happens, won't be for many many, many many years (it requires at least 10 years to even reach Fedor's win streak, much less how dominating he has been the decade).


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

JimmyJames said:


> Love Fedor:sarcastic12:
> 
> I just hate it when people spread mistruths about him. Arlovski did nothing to him. Most of the punches he threw didnt even land........ watch the fight again this time without your Fedor Hater glasses on. :thumb02:


I did before I replied, thinking that maybe I just missed something. Imo Arlovski does more at the open, they clinch in the corner, no damage from either guy there. It's broken up, Arlovski lands a big right and Fedor looks a little dazed. Arlovski throws the kick and decides he's superman. 

Was Fedor ever at risk of going to sleep, probably not, but I think you could argue he was losing that fight up to the KO. Which is a stupid statement and I know it, but I'm just saying I think Fedor is slipping a little, just like every fighter does when they get older.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

My thing with Fedor has nothing to do with how long he has been at the top.

First off the early 2000's the HW division was a joke. And it stayed that way till the Pride HW division took form. Then Pride was gone and the HW division was in a weird place till most recently with the UFC it has picked back up again.

And Fedor has had a few years where he wasnt been all that active. 

What I am saying is this I think somebody can overtake Fedor as the GOAT and it doesnt matter if he can hold down a division for 10 years like Fedor already has. I also think a few losses on a fighters record doesnt mean he is less of a fighter. 

So to sum up my rambling Fedor is just the greatest fighter of his era. All time is just as subjective as a persons musical taste or their picks for the P4P list. 

While I dont think anybody will dominate a division like Fedor has, I think he has fought in the weakest division in the short history of MMA. 

The time frame means little to me personally. It who he has beaten and that is everybody he has faced. And that is what makes him amazing.



Life B Ez said:


> I did before I replied, thinking that maybe I just missed something. Imo Arlovski does more at the open, they clinch in the corner, no damage from either guy there. It's broken up, Arlovski lands a big right and Fedor looks a little dazed. Arlovski throws the kick and decides he's superman.
> 
> Was Fedor ever at risk of going to sleep, probably not, but I think you could argue he was losing that fight up to the KO. Which is a stupid statement and I know it, but I'm just saying I think Fedor is slipping a little, just like every fighter does when they get older.


Yea I agree with everything you say except the part where Fedor looks dazed........... I dont see it but to each his own.:thumb02:


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

JimmyJames said:


> Yea I agree with everything you say except the part where Fedor looks dazed........... I dont see it but to each his own.:thumb02:


To me he looks a little out of it, which is why I think that kick even put him back into the corner. I wouldn't go as far as to say I think Arlovski would have won without the jump, but I think that could have been a real war.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Life B Ez said:


> To me he looks a little out of it, which is why I think that kick even put him back into the corner. I wouldn't go as far as to say I think Arlovski would have won without the jump, but I think that could have been a real war.


Arlovski was one of my favorite fighters years ago. I think he is overrated now.

He could have been a great fighter if just had a better chin. 

Arlovski + a solid chin vs Fedor would be an amazing fight to see.........


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

JimmyJames said:


> My thing with Fedor has nothing to do with how long he has been at the top.
> 
> First off the early 2000's the HW division was a joke. And it stayed that way till the Pride HW division took form. Then Pride was gone and the HW division was in a weird place till most recently with the UFC it has picked back up again.
> 
> ...


I mainly disagree with the bold part of your post.

While someone certainly can overtake his GOAT legacy, I don't think anyone can do it without:

1. Having a wink streak as long and as impressive as Fedor's.

2. Go undefeated for as long as he has.

Fedor has beaten champions from more than 1 top organization, as well as guys who were considered the greatest strikers, BJJ fighters, wrestlers, etc, of their time, which is one of the major reasons why he's considered the best ever. The thing is, had he lost some of his fights to these guys, and only was considered the best for say 5 years, then guys like Anderson, GSP, etc, would be right up there with him, as they would be in the same category.

What makes Fedor special and above the rest is not only has he beaten the top of the top (some cans, but that can be said for most P4P fighters today), but he's done so for a decade and has not lost a single time doing so. Those two aspects (10 year win streak and being undefeated) is what seperates him from the other P4P guys who are very impressive, as they not only have losses, but their streaks aren't nearly as long.

The rest of what you say I agree with, but for someone to pass Fedor's GOAT title, they would definitly have to be _at least_ as impressive as Fedor, which means having a streak as impressive and not losing to the top guys, or to anyone, as Fedor has never lost in his decade, undefeated streak. (please don't bring up his whole 1 loss dill, it's just silly).


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> I mainly disagree with the bold part of your post.
> 
> While someone certainly can overtake his GOAT legacy, I don't think anyone can do it without:
> 
> ...


I understand what you are saying but disagree slightly.....

I think a MMArtist can overtake Fedor's status as MMA Goat.

Let me use GSP for my example.

Take GSP's career up to today, and now speculate what he will do the rest of his career.

GSP has already cleaned out the UFC WW division, Much as Fedor had done with the HW division in Pride. 

Now lets just say that GSP moves up in weight and eventually wins the MW title. GSP then defends that title for a few years and retires with only a few losses to his record. 

I think that GSP can replace Fedor as the goat because of the lax times in the career of Fedor. GSP has always fought contenders and beat them. Avenging his losses and at the end of his career will have fought more contenders during his career than Fedor. 

Now while i dont expect GSP to dominate over any one division for 10 years, I think that him moving up in weight winning another belt and then dominating another division will put him up there with the likes of Fedor. 

Sure one can bring up the losses and such but is that something to really take from a fighter???? I dont believe so, I think it shows how great a fighter is when he losses to somebody and then comes back to dominate that fighter as GSP has with Hughes and to a lesser amount Serra.

Of course this is all hypothetical...... But I think it can be done. Of course this will just be another argument for us MMA fans in the future.


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## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

JimmyJames said:


> I understand what you are saying but disagree slightly.....
> 
> I think a MMArtist can overtake Fedor's status as MMA Goat.
> 
> ...


Statistically, this isn't right.

If GSP goes undefeated until he's Fedor's age, he'll be in a position to match the number of wins that Fedor has (32; GSP is at 19 now, just to be clear).

The problem is that even if Georges does that, he's still not in a position to match Fedor's dominance. He's not undefeated (criteria two of MC's post) and he's not even close to Fedor's win streak.

Just to be clear, at two fights a year, Georges would have to fight consistently for seven years to match Fedor's current mark. That's assuming that Fedor never fights again which is, of course, a totally unreasonable expectation.

If Georges stays dominant for ten years, at two fights a year, then he'll be the greatest fighter in the history of MMA.

Of course, that's true for any of the UFC's current champions.

Ten years at two fights a year would put Brock Lesnar (who has the least impressive record of the UFC champs) at 24-1 career, 23-1 UFC and would make him a 22 time title holder, crushing the current mark record for title belts (9, held by Randy Couture), consecutive UFC wins (Anderson Silva, 10) and best UFC record of all time (Anderson Silva, 10-0).

The only fighter in a position to overtake Fedor as "goat" is Anderson Silva, assuming he decides to stay in the sport for a longer period of time than he's previously indicated, and even he can't do it and be undefeated. After all, he's got three legitimate losses already.

If Anderson stays at middleweight and fights twice a year (though most years he's fought three times; he only fought twice in '09) until he's 40 (that's six more years) and wins all of his fights, defending his title at middleweight with authority, he'll be an incredible 37-4 career, an even more incredible 22-0 in the UFC and have defended his belt a ridiculous 18 times, doubling Couture's record.

Hopefully you see that these numbers are ridiculously unlikely. Possible, but very, very unlikely.

There are a lot of ways to win, but what that means for title holders is that there are also a lot of ways to lose, and the losses happen. That's what makes Fedor so amazing. He's been in situations where he should lose (the fights with Randleman and Fujita jump to mind) and he just doesn't. That's what makes him the goat.

EDIT: I realize that this in the post, but it's worth noting some what Fedor's numbers look like, exactly.

Fights without a loss: 28
Consecutive wins: 11
Wins over top ten fighters: 10 (Nogueira X2, Coleman, Randleman, Hunt, Sylvia, Arlovski and Rogers)
Title victories: 6 (I'm counting the WAMMA title, though it's irrelevant in the scheme of MMA history)


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

IM stated all I am trying to say better than I did, so I'll just agree with him instead of responding with another lengthy post trying to state the same things.


----------



## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

IronMan said:


> Statistically, this isn't right.
> 
> If GSP goes undefeated until he's Fedor's age, he'll be in a position to match the number of wins that Fedor has (32; GSP is at 19 now, just to be clear).
> 
> ...


My post was just to point out that I disagreed with MC and the criteria he stated for being the GOAT.

Another thing is that my post was just speculation to prove my point about his listed criteria and how it isnt all that correct. 

I see what you are saying for GSP and Silva. But I disagree that Silva has a better chance to be the GOAT over GSP, or at least GOAT #2 next to Fedor
Reason being that Silva has a few losses in his career to guys that he should have beaten. The same can be said about GSP and his loss to Serra I guess...... but Serra is a pretty good fighter..........


----------



## IronMan (May 15, 2006)

JimmyJames said:


> I see what you are saying for GSP and Silva. But I disagree that Silva has a better chance to be the GOAT over GSP, or at least GOAT #2 next to Fedor
> Reason being that Silva has a few losses in his career to guys that he should have beaten. The same can be said about GSP and his loss to Serra I guess...... but Serra is a pretty good fighter..........


Well, neither of them are candidates, given that both have high profile, non-controversial losses (GSP to Hughes and Serra; Silva to Chonan and Takase). Fedor's in interesting because it's a controversial loss that came on the small stage in a show with sketchy rules.

If you add the "undefeated" criterion to being a goat, there's really no one in the upper echelon right now who's a potential threat to take over that place, with one exception: Lyoto Machida.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

IronMan said:


> Well, neither of them are candidates, given that both have high profile, non-controversial losses (GSP to Hughes and Serra; Silva to Chonan and Takase). Fedor's in interesting because it's a controversial loss that came on the small stage in a show with sketchy rules.
> 
> If you add the "undefeated" criterion to being a goat, there's really no one in the upper echelon right now who's a potential threat to take over that place, with one exception: Lyoto Machida.


I guess my whole point was that you cant judge who is the GOAT of MMA by using a criteria of things a fighter must accomplish. Especially when comparing fighters from different time periods and weight classes.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Rocky Marciano isnt considered the best boxer of all time.

Wanna know why?? Who you fight, MATTERS.

Going undefeated DOESNT by itself make you the greatest and the record books wont show Fedor as undefeated anyways but either way, it have NO BEARING ON BEING THE GREATEST.

The greatest boxers lost cuz they constantly kept fighting great boxers. Rocky in his prime would get schooled by many boxers that had the audcity to lose a fight.

You dont have to match somebodys record to be considered greater, just fight greater ppl for a longer period of time and make a bigger impact on the sport.

That will happen, guaranteed.

Doesnt mean Rocky is nobody, its just different era's. The ali-frazier-foreman 3 headed beast era also had many, many other top fighters.

Kinda like Fedors era.... kinda soft, no?? HW only getting interesting now and will be much better in a few years IMO


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

alizio said:


> Rocky Marciano isnt considered the best boxer of all time.
> 
> Wanna know why?? Who you fight, MATTERS.
> 
> ...


I highly, highly agree.

I guess this is the point i was trying to make.:thumb02:

Even if you throw a few losses on Fedor's record he is still the best ever.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Of course who you fight matters, that's one of the MANY reasons why Fedor is considered the greatest ever. Many guys have fought/beaten top guys, GSP, Anderson, BJ, etc, but NONE of them have the same accomplishments Fedor has in terms of having a decade long win streak and going undefeated. These two things (undefeated and decade long win streak) are two big things in the reasoning why most consider him the greatest ever, AS WELL AS fighting top of the line guys throughout his career.

If he had, say, 10-15 wins less, and was only on a win streak of say 10, and only for say 3 years, he'd be considered in the same category as GSP, Anderson, and the other P4P greats. It's his amazingly large decade long win streak and undefeated status (except those very very few who pick at his "loss"), that push him beyond everyone else.

The only thing I can see that is making this complicated for you, Jimmy, is that you think I'm saying his decade long win streak and undefeated nature is the only reason he's considered the best ever, cause it's not. It's that combined with all of his very high ranking wins and the way he won them that push him beyond everyone else.


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## vaj3000 (Dec 28, 2008)

If fedor loses it will set of a chain of catacalysmic events that will inevitably end in the destruction of earth as we know it! I heard if fedor loses it'll call a tear in the very fabric of space.

What if fedor loses? Same thing that happend when tyson lost....we'll be suprised for a few days then get over it


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## dexter0502 (Feb 9, 2010)

i know what you mean, i have often thought, shit! what if fedor loses? ive recently been watching his pride fights however and its made me realise how incredible he is/was. in pride he killed everyone and was mental! what worries me now though, is that its like everyone is looking for the fedor beater. on that note, i'd like him to retire soon, he is/was the best of his time, and i dont want to see him lose to a secound tier fighter just because his time has past.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Is this a Fedor thread with "GOAT" in it???:confused02:


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## KillingRoad89 (Jul 28, 2009)

the universe will implode if fedor ever loses.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> The only thing I can see that is making this complicated for you, Jimmy, is that you think I'm saying his decade long win streak and undefeated nature is the only reason he's considered the best ever, cause it's not. It's that combined with all of his very high ranking wins and the way he won them that push him beyond everyone else.


I thought about this for a while last night and the problem I am having is that you seem to be saying that a fighter needs to best what Fedor has done to be called the GOAT and I highly disagree with that.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

JimmyJames said:


> I thought about this for a while last night and the problem I am having is that you seem to be saying that a fighter needs to best what Fedor has done to be called the GOAT and I highly disagree with that.


You have to do _at least_ what the current GOAT has done to be considered better, no? You can't take the title of someone without at the very minimum _matching_ what he does.

I'm not sure how you are disagreeing that someone has to accomplish more than the current GOAT to be considered the GOAT.

That's just common sense.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> You have to do _at least_ what the current GOAT has done to be considered better, no? You can't take the title of someone without at the very minimum _matching_ what he does.
> 
> I'm not sure how you are disagreeing that someone has to accomplish more than the current GOAT to be considered the GOAT.
> 
> That's just common sense.


Thats just the problem I am having. Why does a fighter have to beat Fedor's winning streak or his 10 years dominating 1 division to be named the GOAT?

Why are we labeling what makes a fighter the GOAT according to the accomplishments of Fedor?????? Thats blind nuthugging IMO.

The Rocky Marciano point is just what I am saying. Just because he has an undefeated record doesnt make him the GOAT in boxing......... Hell Marciano isnt even in the top 10 greatest boxers of all time, but according to your listed criteria for what makes a GOAT Marciano is the best ever. And that simply just isnt true.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

JimmyJames said:


> Thats just the problem I am having. Why does a fighter have to beat Fedor's winning streak or his 10 years dominating 1 division to be named the GOAT?
> 
> Why are we labeling what makes a fighter the GOAT according to the accomplishments of Fedor?????? Thats blind nuthugging IMO.
> 
> The Rocky Marciano point is just what I am saying. Just because he has an undefeated record doesnt make him the GOAT in boxing......... Hell Marciano isnt even in the top 10 greatest boxers of all time, but according to your listed criteria for what makes a GOAT Marciano is the best ever. And that simply just isnt true.


No, it's a mix of everything. If Fedor were to have beaten a bunch of cans and nothing but cans for 10 years, of course he wouldn't be GOAT. However, Fedor has beaten, for 10 years undefeated, the top of the line heavyweights, men who were also much larger than he is, as if he was fighting out of his own weight class. GSP fights guys smaller than he is 90% of the time, so does Anderson at 185, and they both have multiple losses.

If you break down all the huge wins on Fedor's resume ALONG WITH the fact that he has a decade long win streak and is undefeated, he is GOAT, and the only way someone is going to take that title is if they do something as impressive. Moving up in weight to get a title? Randy has down that, hell, he's won the title of two weight classes like what, 5 times? BJ Penn as done that as well. Titles don't mean much, Matt Serra was a title holder, so was Evan Tanner. 

It's about HOW LONG you can maintain an amazing record and the competition that you face during that time, and Fedor has faced the best of his divison for 10 years and has gone undefeated. If you beat the best in your division for 3 years, you're a pound for pound fighter at the time, but you're nowhere near GOAT status.

GSP isn't going to hold his division down for 7 more years is he? Anderson 6 more years? They aren't going to lose any fights from now until then are they? Are they going to constantly fight guys much larger than they are the entire duration of the 6-7 years?

It's a combination of what Fedor has done that makes him GOAT, not JUST being undefeated and having a decade win streak.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

deleted............


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

JimmyJames said:


> Arlovski was one of my favorite fighters years ago. I think he is overrated now.
> 
> He could have been a great fighter if just had a better chin.
> 
> Arlovski + a solid chin vs Fedor would be an amazing fight to see.........


I keep hearing, best hands, worst chin.

Unfortunately, you can't train chin.

I've (mostly) lost hope that Fedor will ever come to the UFC.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

swpthleg said:


> I keep hearing, best hands, worst chin.
> 
> Unfortunately, you can't train chin.
> 
> I've (mostly) lost hope that Fedor will ever come to the UFC.


I dont think he will ever fight in the UFC. He wont as long as M-1 is in the picture sadly:thumbsdown:


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

IronMan said:


> It depends radically on how it happens.
> 
> If he fights Overeem and gets tooled standing up, or if he fights Werdum and gets tooled on the mat, then it will definitely change my outlook on where he is in the MMA world right now.
> 
> ...


 thnx u are right


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

swpthleg said:


> I keep hearing, best hands, worst chin.
> 
> Unfortunately, you can't train chin.


Well if you don't get hit, then you don't need a good chin


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Chin*

One way to avoid a glass jaw is what Anderson Silva does, good head moves!


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

*Common Boxing Rule*



kantowrestler said:


> One way to avoid a glass jaw is what Anderson Silva does, good head moves!


 
KEEP YOUR HANDS UP TO PROTECT YOUR FACE


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

coldcall420 said:


> KEEP YOUR HANDS UP TO PROTECT YOUR FACE


OMG. You're a visionary!


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

swpthleg said:


> OMG. You're a visionary!


 
Dont make Papi bring out the pimp hand now.....:angry02:


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

in boxing we would train getting our "bell rung" just basically taking a few and seeing how the fighter responds while a bit rocked.

i wouldnt call it "chin training" but it definately prepares you for being rocked in a fight cuz if you have never been rocked and dont know what its like..... its a different world and some guys just cant react at all in it.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

coldcall420 said:


> Dont make Papi bring out the pimp hand now.....:angry02:


I was hoping to see the strong pimp hand magic.........poetry in motion.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

It leads to great make up sex....:thumb03:


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

I have road tested that particular theory with my own equivalent.

I will continue to research, in the interest of general edification and the greater good.


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## Baron (Mar 6, 2010)

What if Fedor loses? You mean the mystique of invincibility. I remember when Buster Douglas defeated Mike Tyson. The entire civilized world was utterly disappointed. The illusion was shattered, and the entire sport suffered, and possibly, is still suffering. The pro wrestling business did the same thing in the late 90's with a ex-pro football player named Bill Goldberg. Invincibility. It sells. Is MMA different? Yes. Look at Couture's less than stellar record. Winning and losing is not so important. It's fighting as hard as you can and being in top shape. It's winning the fights that no one thinks you can win. The biggest danger for Fedor when he loses is the rush of encouragement all the other fighters are gonna feel when he goes down. They'll be alot of people out to hang him.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

there is some truth in it ^


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## Tehboyd (Mar 4, 2010)

When Fedor goes inside the octogan he doesn't think what will happen if he would lose the fight .His mental status is o.k. He goes in the cage doing his best to win .He is not invincible ,he is human too .But he is experienced and a great mma fighter.He always finds a weakness in his opponent's fighting style.He can see the weakness and then he goes for the kill. Wins by knockout ,TKO ,submission, it doesn't really matter how the match ends , what's important is to win.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Metal*

Yeah his demenor really plays a role cause facing someone much larger than you and being cool about it affects the larger guy!


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Did you mean, "mental"?

You're on break from school, huh.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Mental*

Yeah, my laptop is down and the school system won't let me access this forum for some reason unless I'm on wireless.


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## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

Just to Compare.

Fedor:

Fights without a loss: 28
Consecutive wins: 11
Wins over top ten fighters: 10 (Nogueira X2, Coleman, Randleman, Hunt, Sylvia, Arlovski and Rogers)
Title victories: 3 Wamma, 4 Pride, 2 Rings Tournaments


George's St-Pierre


Fights without a loss: 6
Consecutive wins: 6
Wins over top ten fighters: 7+(Penn x2, Fitch, Alves, Hughesx2, Kos) who else can we count? Sherk was riding a nice streak when GSP beat him, what about Serra, Miller, Trigg, etc? i don't know their statuses.
Title victories: 6 UFC

Anderson Silva.

Fights without a loss: 11
Consecutive wins: 11
Wins over top ten fighters: 9+ (Sakurai, Leben, Nate, Franklinx2, Hendo, Cote, Leites, Griffin) Maybe Newton? 
Title victories: 6 UFC, 4 Cage Rage, 1 Shooto


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Titles*

You forgot to categorize Fedor and GSP's promotion victories for the title, which you did for Silva!


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Oh, the irony.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Irony?*

Why is that?


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## Jimdon (Aug 27, 2008)

Chileandude said:


> Just to Compare.
> Sherk was riding a nice streak when GSP beat him,


Sherk was widely considered on of the top 3 pound for pound fighters in the world when GSP beat him, you could argue about Silva and Fedor all day, but nobody has faced the top competition as consistently as GSP.

The guy only fights the best.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Only fights the best*

Can't argue with that considering Fedor and Silva have gone off track numerous times and fought out of the way people, like Hong Man Choi for Fedor and James Irvin for Silva!


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## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

Jimdon said:


> Sherk was widely considered on of the top 3 pound for pound fighters in the world when GSP beat him, you could argue about Silva and Fedor all day, but nobody has faced the top competition as consistently as GSP.
> 
> The guy only fights the best.


Has GSP ever fought top ten guys who are 30 pounds heavier?


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Top 10 Guys*

Yeah I guess GSP hasn't consistantly fought guys thirty pounds heavier!


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

lol when fedor gets cought he gets by back in to the fight compared to others


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## Jimdon (Aug 27, 2008)

Freelancer said:


> Has GSP ever fought top ten guys who are 30 pounds heavier?


Man, you gotta love MMAF, you can't even compliment another fighter without Fedor's fanboys running over to guard his nutsack.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

Jimdon said:


> Man, you gotta love MMAF, you can't even compliment another fighter without Fedor's fanboys running over to guard his nutsack.


The best thing about it, they are the same people that trashed people for defending Nog when Mir beat him. You want to bet if Fedor gets crushed by someone there will be a million excuses as to why.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

rather being a fan than finding every possibility to troll on fedor

he's too fat he is russian he is small guess what he still knocks ppl out

how stupid of many ppl to hate on the guy mainly because of his fans


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Freelancer said:


> Has GSP ever fought top ten guys who are 30 pounds heavier?


So it's GSP's fault that he isnt a HW???

I guess only a HW can be the GOAT then since he fights bigger guys and all.......:sarcastic12:


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## Jimdon (Aug 27, 2008)

Rusko said:


> how stupid of many ppl to hate on the guy mainly because of his fans


It's like your mom used to say when you were a kid, "If you ignore the bullies they'll go away", I'm willing to bet the majority of the Fedor 'Haters' (which apparently I'm one of because I paid another fighter a compliment in a thread with 'Fedor' in the title) don't really think he sucks, they just enjoy getting the nuthuggers all steamed up.


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## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

Freelancer said:


> Has GSP ever fought top ten guys who are 30 pounds heavier?


The Weight difference isn't as relevant because the talent pool of the HW has always been cosiderably smaller.


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## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

Chileandude said:


> The Weight difference isn't as relevant because the talent pool of the HW has always been cosiderably smaller.


I disagree. Although the talent pool is smaller, some of the better HW's Fedor fought, like Tim Sylvia(at the time they fought he was still top ten) and Brett Rogers, were 30 pounds heavier than him. GSP, as good as he is, has never done that. So it's unfair to say GSP's victories are more impressive than Fedor's. When I see GSP fight and win against much bigger but still dangerous guys, I'll say that he deserves more praise than Fedor. Don't get me wrong, he is a force of nature, but as you've noticed he is almost always bigger than his opponents.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Where would any Fedor fan be without the argument "He was ranked at that time."

Hunt. Sylvia, Arlovski, Rogers...... gimmie a break........ LOL


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## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

JimmyJames said:


> Where would any Fedor fan be without the argument "He was ranked at that time."
> 
> Hunt. Sylvia, Arlovski, Rogers...... gimmie a break........ LOL


Did I say anything inaccurate?


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Freelancer said:


> Did I say anything inaccurate?


No not at all, I just am point out how rankings are always brought up when Fedor and "GOAT" talk is brought up.


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## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

JimmyJames said:


> No not at all, I just am point out how rankings are always brought up when Fedor and "GOAT" talk is brought up.


Well I believe that's for a reason. Because fighter's career isn't a straight line and everyone has his prime. Fedor, I believe fought all of those guys in their prime. But, it seems almost everyone's career has went down after their fight with Fedor. 

And to go back to the topic. If Fedor loses Armageddon will come.:thumb02:

Seriously everybody is beatable, but Fedor is the most impressive fighter ever to compete in MMA and I would be very happy if his record wasn't tarnished with a loss.


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## EastonAssassin (Nov 5, 2009)

Jimdon said:


> Man, you gotta love MMAF, you can't even compliment another fighter without Fedor's fanboys running over to guard his nutsack.


:thumb02:
pretty annoying, isn't it?


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## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

He loses by some unfortunate cut or injury....SF goes bankrupt, he moves to UFC and thrashes Mir and squares off vs Cain for an amazing title-fight 

Well the odds of what I said are probably > than the odds he will lose to Werdum.


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

Freiermuth said:


> He loses by some unfortunate cut or injury....SF goes bankrupt, he moves to UFC and thrashes Mir and squares off vs Cain for an amazing title-fight
> 
> Well the odds of what I said are probably > than the odds he will lose to Werdum.


Even if SF goes out of business I still dont see M-1 letting Fedor come to the UFC. And Fedor is never gonna leave M-1.


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## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

Freelancer said:


> I disagree. Although the talent pool is smaller, some of the better HW's Fedor fought, like Tim Sylvia(at the time they fought he was still top ten) and Brett Rogers, were 30 pounds heavier than him. GSP, as good as he is, has never done that. So it's unfair to say GSP's victories are more impressive than Fedor's. When I see GSP fight and win against much bigger but still dangerous guys, I'll say that he deserves more praise than Fedor. Don't get me wrong, he is a force of nature, but as you've noticed he is almost always bigger than his opponents.


i'm not saying Fedor didn't fight top guys, im saying that Top guys at HW were less talented IMO than the top guys at the other divisions.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

i said it before, ill say it again.

beating bums or flashes in the pan means very little.

to be the GOAT you gotta beat guys who coulda been the GOAT if u werent around.

Fedor has one win like that. Nog. Everybody else was overhyped and not really built to last. Puffed up LHWs and cans.

Thats why HWs are never the best tho, even in boxing. The most hyped up?? yes.

Mike Tyson was NEVER the best boxer in the world, that was all hype cuz he was a HW. its rare you get these beastly guys with real skills. Name one great fighter he beat?? none... only fought real skilled guys down the road and he got schooled everytime and even those guys arent the greatest of all time.

the HW boxing era really had only one truely great era worth mentioning, its hard to find great guys at that size.

the HW division in MMA has ALWAYS sucked balls. Its getting better now but it still sucks balls.

the GOAT will not come from this division. 

already what Anderson and GSP are doing now, stringing together top 5 after top 5 win over guys that continue to domiant the rest of the division. That is impressive.

you lose to Fedor you just become a nobody again. what you likely deserved to be before you fought him.


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## Freelancer (Jul 5, 2007)

alizio said:


> i said it before, ill say it again.
> 
> beating bums or flashes in the pan means very little.
> 
> ...


So, Arlovski and Sylvia are puffed up LHWs?:sarcastic09:
Both guys had the title in the UFC, I guess the UFC had shitty champions? And once again, Anderson and GSP are very big for their division, so I would love to see them both fight someone 30 pounds heavier.


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

alizio said:


> i said it before, ill say it again.
> 
> beating bums or flashes in the pan means very little.
> 
> ...


Cain is GOAT, happy now?

If its not fedor i wonder who is it?


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## Jimdon (Aug 27, 2008)

Freelancer said:


> So, Arlovski and Sylvia are puffed up LHWs?:sarcastic09:
> Both guys had the title in the UFC, I guess the UFC had shitty champions? And once again, Anderson and GSP are very big for their division, so I would love to see them both fight someone 30 pounds heavier.


The guys that were a big threat to Fedor were relatively close to his size eg. Nog, CC, Coleman, if you honestly believe that Fedor's win over Rogers is more impressive than any of GSP's or Silva's wins because he outweighed him by thirty pounds, your brain is broken.

Your argument is invalid.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

alizio said:


> i said it before, ill say it again.
> 
> beating bums or flashes in the pan means very little.
> 
> ...


I truly could not agree more here!!! :thumbsup:


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

alizio said:


> i said it before, ill say it again.
> 
> beating bums or flashes in the pan means very little.
> 
> ...


 
In terms of Fedor I respectfully disagree......he has faced every opponent they have put in front of him....and bitched them....

The problem with being the best at whatever weight class is that people look for a reason to see that dominance end, with Fedor again whoever they put in front of him he fights, i highly doubt he gives a shit if I or you think he is the best HW in the world, if we dont........the world does!!


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> In terms of Fedor I respectfully disagree......he has faced every opponent they have put in front of him....and bitched them....
> 
> The problem with being the best at whatever weight class is that people look for a reason to see that dominance end, with Fedor again whoever they put in front of him he fights, i highly doubt he gives a shit if I or you think he is the best HW in the world, if we dont........the world does!!


 he is the best HW in the world and ever. no disputing that.

the best by far, in the worst division by far.

he is like the best canadian rapper ever or something.

Its funny, so and so has to step up (Gsp or Anderson) division to prove they are the best....

but fedor is the best cuz he fights bigger guys then him in the WORST division.... even tho he could easily move down to LHW a much stronger division all the time, he never did, and ppl never wanted him to, why??


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Fedor at Lightheavyweight*

You know he's faced plenty of lightheavyweight fighters before just not in the lightheavyweight division. Plus I think he is a little big to try and cut down to lightheavyweight!


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

alizio said:


> he is the best HW in the world and ever. no disputing that.
> 
> the best by far, in the worst division by far.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure why he would drop down over 20 pounds to fight at LHW, if he were to try to do that barring a shitty weight cut i dont see him having any issues at that weight frankly.....As far as GSP and Anderson go, would it be a test for them to move up weight?? Sure but I think its safe to say that along with dominating their respective divisions they are both going to move up GSP seems as though he is working at putting mass on and Anderson has already fought at 205.....Fedor wanted ORIGINALLY when the UFC talks started to be able to compete in *****, that was one of the things that stopped it from happening all the way back when people still wanted to see Randy fight him......So I dont look at him as not wanting to come to the UFC and face the best.....i look at him as having principles that are alot more simple than Dana Whites and zuffa's and he isn't willing to compromise his values or the sports(and title he has defended in *****) for Dana or Zuffa....

perhaps rather than there being other posters who claim Fedor is ducking the best.......why didn't the UFC give him the terms that aren't so difficult to agree to and be done with this well over a yr ago...?? 

I laugh cuz if fedor came to the UFC and cleaned out Brock, Mir and Cain......then where would some of these threads be????

This whole post wasn't @ alizio, just the top part....:thumbsup:


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## Indestructibl3 (Apr 2, 2009)

Unfortunately for Fedor, he's always in a lose-lose situation. If he wins: 'eh he was supposed to win', if he loses: 'holy shit he lost and *insert guys name who beat him* is the next big thing *forget about Fedor*'.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Lose Lose*

Yeah that always seems to be the problem when it comes to Fedor!


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Cold. Im pretty sure the UFC was gonna allow him in *****, Dana has said as much and given the new James Toney contract where he is allowed to compete in boxing i would think Dana would make the exception for Fedor aswell.

Just another excuse in the long line of excuses M1 and Fedor have for not coming to the UFC.

Perhaps not having the owners in their back pocket is never part of the plan.

UFC would be by far the best, most competitive and most importantly MOST LEGIT organization he has ever been. Altho i do consider SF to be very legit in itself.

KOTC, BoDog and Pride were all questionablely run IMO


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

BS

so if Fujita would have beaten fedor he would be the next big thing

or when Matt sera beat GSP, he was the biggest thing? no everybody knew it was a lucky punch 'i am not trying to take a way anything from Sera" but GSP proved in rematch who's who.

what i mean is, fedor can get cought and it doesnt mean the man who beats him is the best HW


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Best HW*

It does if the guy who beats him is number two!


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

alizio said:


> Cold. Im pretty sure the UFC was gonna allow him in *****, Dana has said as much and given the new James Toney contract where he is allowed to compete in boxing i would think Dana would make the exception for Fedor aswell.
> 
> Just another excuse in the long line of excuses M1 and Fedor have for not coming to the UFC.
> 
> ...


 

I think you are correct now, but originally it wasn't that way. M-1 was gonna manage him as far as I know it wasn't a co-promote and ***** at the end, maybe at that point when it was already dead and people still wanted him to be coming was the last issue or one of them.....it was the *****.....

Dumb in retrospect and in the long run if you think about it wouldn't Dana have the ability to say they(UFC) has the best fighters??? Instead they still say that but the common argument is there is a HW out there that is basically undefeated...and better...

This is something that can only go one way or the other and neither seem to want to move....NO MATTER who Fedor fights for, regardless if he came to the UFC he would fight whoever they put in front of him.....Not to mention all the money they could have made here in the states with him on their roster.

IMPO...lol @ what he would do to Brock, Mir, Cain....they would all be beaten.......


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## JimmyJames (Dec 29, 2009)

alizio said:


> i said it before, ill say it again.
> 
> beating bums or flashes in the pan means very little.
> 
> ...


I agree about what you have said about Fedor here but you are way wrong about Mike Tyson. Yes Tyson didnt fight any great HW when he was at his best, but if he did he would have killed them. 

Tyson was for a very short period of time the most amazing boxer I have ever seen in my life. The Cus died and it was all down hill for him from there sadly....


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## tlilly (Nov 13, 2009)

alizio said:


> i said it before, ill say it again.
> 
> beating bums or flashes in the pan means very little.
> 
> ...


You make a good point about fedor's opponents. To me, besides nog and fedor, all the fighters he fought havn't been GOAT material. 

However, I think it's unfair to compare boxing with mma this way because boxing has had a longer history than mma. Because of this, mma as a sport, evolves much faster than the present day boxing. The best fighters now will absolutely destroy their counterparts 10 years or even 5 years ago. So I think it is unfair to call fedor's opponents cans because they can't compare to the best of the present day. 

I think this is a testament of how good fedor is though. Rarely in mma have we seen a fighter been so dominant for such a long period of time. I would say Fedor is one of the few remaining old guards that have been so successful at such a high level for that long. I think we cannot underestimate the ability of fedor to dominate for nearly a decade of high competition. 

I do agree though that gsp and anderson has achieved more in their career than fedor.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

JimmyJames said:


> I agree about what you have said about Fedor here but you are way wrong about Mike Tyson. Yes Tyson didnt fight any great HW when he was at his best, but if he did he would have killed them.
> 
> Tyson was for a very short period of time the most amazing boxer I have ever seen in my life. The Cus died and it was all down hill for him from there sadly....


 sorry bud, u bought into the hype.

Tyson was marketed well and had the weakest division in alo0ng time to mess around in. He was a very good HW.

If you wanted to watch the best tho... you would have been watching Julio Caesar or Sugar Ray at that time, not Mike Tyson. Big guys just arent the best.

To be the best, you gotta beat the best, legends. Why do ppl love Ali?? He beat Frazier, Foreman and Sonny Liston, 3 guys who could have been the greatest HW EVER if Ali had never existed.

Mike never beat anybody of that calibre. It sucks for him that his era sucked but skill wise he was never close to a guy like Ali anyways who would have danced around and embarrassed Mike.

But if you dont believe me about that, ask Mike himself 

btw Mike won the title after Cus died.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

alizio said:


> sorry bud, u bought into the hype.
> 
> Tyson was marketed well and had the weakest division in alo0ng time to mess around in. He was a very good HW.
> 
> ...


No matter what you gotta admit Mike was one of the fastest HW's out there and he had the power to go with the speed, he beat Berbeck for the belt who had just beaten Ali......although it was an old Ali....:thumbsup:

The scary part about Mike Tyson is what he could have been if he remained under the correct leadership and guidance.....


LOL @ Hollyfield vs. Tyson 3.....


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Tyson in MMA*

I wonder what would've happened if Tyson and Sapp had actually met in either MMA or K-1!


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## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

tlilly said:


> You make a good point about fedor's opponents. To me, besides nog and fedor, all the fighters he fought havn't been GOAT material.
> 
> However, I think it's unfair to compare boxing with mma this way because boxing has had a longer history than mma. Because of this, mma as a sport, evolves much faster than the present day boxing. The best fighters now will absolutely destroy their counterparts 10 years or even 5 years ago. So I think it is unfair to call fedor's opponents cans because they can't compare to the best of the present day.
> 
> ...


I agree with some of what you are saying and some of the other recent posts...buuut Who has AS beat in recent history that is so much better than Fedor's opponents?

Here's who AS fought since Fedor KO'd AA, see any possible GOAT's in there?

Griffin - Good (could be high quality win if he shows up good vs Lil Nog).
Leites - Yipes
Cote - Hype, might be good but never really beat top guys.
Irvin - Umm yeah

A lot of the guys AS has beaten have faded into as much or more obscurity then Fedors opponents because at least some of Fedor's are has-beens now instead of never-willabes. I think the argument for GSP is better (easier to qualify), since all the guys he's beaten recently are still the top 5 contenders I think haha. Overall, though I do believe AS put a beating on GSP if they fight....it's just AS's record doesn't look that impressive but that's not his fault.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Freiermuth said:


> I agree with some of what you are saying and some of the other recent posts...buuut Who has AS beat in recent history that is so much better than Fedor's opponents?
> 
> Here's who AS fought since Fedor KO'd AA, see any possible GOAT's in there?
> 
> ...


 u conviently leave out Nate, Hendo and Rick Franklin who all went on to have success after losing to AS.

If not for AS, its likely one of those 3 would be the champion for along time or change the title amongst themselves.

Do ppl really forget how dominant Rich Franklin was at MW?

He was well on his way to being the GOAT of MW or you could argue Hendo..... see what i mean about the REAL GOATs beating potential GOATs?? Also, Anderson has just gotten started, he is looking to fight even more top guys consistently.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Franklin*

No, but he's been so left out of the picture because of Silva!


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## Freiermuth (Nov 19, 2006)

alizio said:


> u conviently leave out Nate, Hendo and Rick Franklin who all went on to have success after losing to AS.
> 
> If not for AS, its likely one of those 3 would be the champion for along time or change the title amongst themselves.
> 
> ...


It was not out of convenience, I know Hendo and Franklin are great (I disagree on Nate's greatness)....but people usually bring up Fedors last couple fights (recent history) vs Sylvia, AA, Rogers...during that same time-frame the guys I listed are who AS has fought.

EDIT: Meant to say Sylvia, not AA in my previous post.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Opponents*

Well at the time he fought them Sylvia, Arlovski, and Rogers were ranked pretty high and before the match with Barnett was cancelled, Barnett was ranked number two in the world! Consider those factors!


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

He doesn't duck anyone, nor does he pick easy fights.....

Why cant it just be a situation where his management cannot get to terms with the UFC or vice versa???? Why does it always have to be some conspiracy?? The dude fights whoever and the last thing he appears to be with any of these guys is scared....

This shit gets old cuz were talking sit that we cannot control and may not happen...ever!!!

My concern is that it does......but it EVENTUALLY, does and maybe Fedor skills start to diminish if he were to keep fighting like say Randy is...


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Fighting*

Yeah but Randy is still fighting and still good!


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

kantowrestler said:


> Yeah but Randy is still fighting and still good!


 
And losing....at times, that would be a first basically for Fedor....


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Loses*

Well I think Fedor will retire long before that happens!


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## kay_o_ken (Jan 26, 2009)

as much as i love him at this point in his career i think the chances of him losing are getting more and more likely, imo he should at least go out against the best (ie go to ufc) but something tells me thats not gonna happen 



kantowrestler said:


> No, but he's been so left out of the picture because of Silva!


yeah poor franklin, i love the guy and he was the freakin man till silva came along and basically ended his career as a top fighter/contender


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

*Franklin*

Yeah and to be honest I really don't think he'll be champion at 205, not with the caliber of guys at that weightclass, including Silva's teammates, Lil Nog and Machida!


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