# Rich Franklin vs Anderson Silva



## adminmma

*Official Discussion Thread for UFC 64*

This could be a very interesting match, and one of Franklins toughest.

I mean, compare their stats, Silva vs Franklin.

Mind you, Rich does have an impressive record.

Anyways, let the debate begin! And remember, you can bet your post points on the match HERE


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## Ken Shamrock

I'm gonna go with Rich Franklin winning this one. I don't think he'll lose that UFC Middleweight Championship for a very long time.


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## 3DLee

I give it to Rich Franklin by ref stoppage in the 2nd round. Silva will rush him, but won't get the oppurtuniteis like with Leben. Silva will be a little winded and frustrated by round 2 and will make a mistake, get put to the mat, and will cover up and take punches.


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## Esotera

The reason Silva looked so well against Leben is because Leben thought he had one of the best chins in the league. If you look at all of Leben's fights, he takes a hit to give one. Franklin is going to fight a much better fight. I believe this is going to be the same as Crow vs Ace. Franklin all the way for this fight. Either a late knockout or decision.


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## Arctic Cat F7

It's a no brainer. Rich "Ace" Franklin is going to mop the floor with Silva.


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## Drake2006

*re: Franklin vs. Sliva*

If he does beat Silva, they should bring back Linland to fight him in a future title match. What happens with the winner of TUF4?? I thought each one would get a title shot. Anyway--if Rich's hand is 100% , and he can avoid any direct hits on the chin he should be able to win via decision.


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## Steve-d

im going with franklin


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## WandyBJPenn

People seriously think Rich is going to toy with Silva. People do realize that Silva is a much better striker than Franklin and if he lands on Franklin, it will most likely knock him or wobble him. If anyone remembers, Franklin was knocked out the first time in Pride tournament, 1st round. He could not withstand blows as much as people believe, so if Silva lands those highly accurate punches, it will take Franklin out of his game. 

Silva by referee stoppage in the 2nd round.


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## Wombatsu

tipping an upset ...... Silva.


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## jdun11

i dont wanna hear about any other middleweight beating franklin..Lindland cant beat him , marquardt cant beat him, and if silva cant noone will for awile..unless pride sendd over one of their studs over from the 183 lb division.

But as for this fight, very dangerous fight for franklin.This is by no means gonna be an easy fight.hes fighting a better striker than himself, which he might not be used to..but i still seeing rich pulling out a victory in the late rounds with some ground and pound and big john stopping it..it could be a decision..
also if rich wins this fight, they should bring machida over to see if rich can redeem himself :thumbsup:


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## FunkDoctor

They should get Lyoto, so people can stop *****ing and discrediting Rich for ONE loss. But this fight has FOTY written all over it; Franklin is my fav fighter but I'm worried that he gets caught during one of his combos while backing out.:thumbsup:


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## TheZar

im actually gonna take silva on this one....dunno, just have that feeling that anderson can catch rich with his punches, daze him, and take him out...both do fight southpaw, so that'll be interesting to see how that plays as a factor...

plus, i'd think the odds makers in vegas would put down some good odds for me to take silva


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## DangerMouse666

Rootin' for Ace But I can see an upset ont he horizon and Silva comin' out on top.:dunno:


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## RodneyPierce

I also think Franklin will get this one! I dont think he is going to loose the belt untill he is ready to go. I think Silva will comeout swinging for the fences, perhaps tire himself, and then franklin will win via GNP. Cant wait for this one!


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## Drake2006

*Franklin/Silva*

This will be Franklin's toughest opponent for him to date - beside Ryoto, who he fought at 205. Franklin is a natural MW and should never go back to 205. I think over his career he has not fought very tough guys like Henderson and Lindland have. This will be Franklin's defining moment, maybe for his whole career. If he can't beat Silva then Henderson, Lindland, Filho, would tear him apart. Good luck Rich.


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## Spartan42

I think some people have vastly underestimated Silva's endurance. If you watch the few of his fights that actually went for a long time he tends to tire out his opponents before he shuts down. I think this will be the toughest fight of Franklin's career and potentially a defining moment in silva's. It will be a great fight regardless. I honestly do not know who will come out on top, but i have a feeling that silva will be able to land one or two, just enough to rock franklin and then i see it slowly going for silva.


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## Bigshow

Rich is going to get em.

He's been training hard for Silva and Rich is just a smart fighter overall.

I am looking forward to this event for sure.


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## [TUF] BeeZy

Rich Franklin what more needs to be said. Haha.:thumbsup: Hes got it :thumbsup:


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## lilstuch114

i am going to like this one. it will be a good fight because they will stand and bang. it is great wen u no that eaither guy can win the fight at ne moment. i think that it will only go 3 rounds


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## gduff2

If franklin chooses to stand up then silva might have a chance of winning. if it goes to the ground then it's Ace's game. I think Franklin is smart enough to not box too much with silva. I vote franklin.


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## randyspankstito

Rich is going to rip hum a new one. He beat the living hell out of evan tanner twice. He's on a roll right now and will be champ for a while.


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## *IceMAn*

I think Anderson silva has better angles then rich. Rich has that mean jumping right jab and that is his probably most efeective weapon. But in the leben-silva fight you saw silva takin the angles on leben crippling any offense leben out forth i think it will be a good match up but the edge will probably be franklin due to experience.


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## SlammedSL1

*IceMAn* said:


> I think Anderson silva has better angles then rich. Rich has that mean jumping right jab and that is his probably most efeective weapon. But in the leben-silva fight you saw silva takin the angles on leben crippling any offense leben out forth i think it will be a good match up but the edge will probably be franklin due to experience.


and who the hell are you?

Silva has 20 fights under his belt

Franklin has 21 fights

Just because you don't know who Silva is cause you're too busy ignoring other fighting organizations doesn't mean you need to post your BS here thanks :thumbsdown:


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## goema

people this fight goes all to silvia. you saw what he did to lieben and the guy is from brazil so hes good on the ground and that slammed guy is right silvia even had a belt in cage rage.


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## TheOaf66

I say Franklin, Silva will come on strong and Franklin should withstand the initial onslaught and then slow it down to his own pace and pick him apart


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## MMA-Hole

*Silva by KO*

I gotta give this fight to Silva if he can keep it standing. He's got real power in his punches and even better accuracy. Ace is a true student of the sport though and is probably too smart to try and take on Silva at his own game. It could go either way but I've got a feeling Silva'll keep pushing and score a 2'nd round KO. No matter what this has 'great fight' written all over it. I can't wait!


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## GSPFAN

SlammedSL1 said:


> and who the hell are you?
> 
> Silva has 20 fights under his belt
> 
> Franklin has 21 fights
> 
> Just because you don't know who Silva is cause you're too busy ignoring other fighting organizations doesn't mean you need to post your BS here thanks :thumbsdown:




What an intelligent way to welcome a new poster. :thumbsdown: 

Iceman has a right to his opinion just like the rest of us and you have no right to attack him on a public forum.


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## SlammedSL1

he stated incorrect information which he based his opinion off of, that's all :thumbsdown:


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## Bonnar426

I like Ace but I see Silva is going to pull an upset!


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## Coldblue

goema said:


> people this fight goes all to silvia. you saw what he did to lieben and the guy is from brazil so hes good on the ground and that slammed guy is right silvia even had a belt in cage rage.


i wouldn't immediately discount rich. while i HOPE sylva wins (just because it's about time the belt changed hands) i wouldn't be shocked in the slightest if rich pulled off the win. he's tall, his reach is considerable and he's built like a brickhouse, not to mention his strong technique. like i said, i want silva to execute some of those surgical strike punches of his and take rich down, but in all probability, this match won't end in a landslide triumph.

and leben is NOT a technically sound fighter. i could say a lot worse about that dude, but i digress. i'm just glad silva humiliated him as badly as he did. did you see what leben said after his last fight during ufc fight night? he said he'd walk into starbucks and dudes would walk up to him and tell him how he should've fought the fight with silva. would've been hilarious to see.


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## Steeda3

I like Rich Franklin....I think he's a great guy and an Excellent fighter....This will be his toughest fight yet.....If there's one weakness in Rich's game it's his Chin....This guy simply can't take a punch....I think Silva will test his chin....It will be a battle of will......Good luck to Rich because he's gonna need it to beat this fella.


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## *IceMAn*

I think rich as an excellent chance at beating silva and i think the belt should change hands too. the only time franklin has ever lost was to a brazilian Ryoto Machida i bellieve that is the only brazilian he has fought statistcally Franks due and besides Silva has already held many titles even if he cant retain the title silva has got a good chance at wining it


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## whale hunter

Rich will be victorious


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## ShootBoxer

I'm going with "Spider".


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## Grotty

Steeda3 said:


> I like Rich Franklin....I think he's a great guy and an Excellent fighter....This will be his toughest fight yet.....If there's one weakness in Rich's game it's his Chin....This guy simply can't take a punch....I think Silva will test his chin....It will be a battle of will......Good luck to Rich because he's gonna need it to beat this fella.


What fights are you basing the weak chin on?


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## ZZtigerZZ81

Probably the two where he actually got punched in it...Loiseau and Machida. I don't know though wasn't my post.

I think Rich will remain the champ. Silva is a good striker and very explosive. But i don't think anyone besides Liddell has better striking angles than Rich Franklin (in the ufc). Franklin will come in with a great gameplan (hopefully he won't drop down to one knee after they touch gloves :laugh:. His chiin is in question, but everybody has a weak chin when they get hit on the right spot and it goes back and touches that nerve. it is lights out for anyone. Just needs to keep his mouth closed that's all.


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## yand

I am a fan of Rich Franklin. I havent seen alot of Silva but what I have seen was pretty awesome. Im afraid Rich may have his hands full.

I gotta give advantage to Silva. (Besides that, I got a bet with my buddy. I have been letting him pick the last two and beat him, Hughes and Liddell, he picked Franklin  )

I hope I gotta pay up and Rich wins. Im afraid that wont happen.....


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## Ghizman

Silva, ref stoppage, late 1st or early 2nd round. Rich has never seen a striker like Silva. I mean with the angles and precision accuracy Silva has he pulls it out. I think the fight will end quickly not becuse Franklin doesn't have a chance but because these guys are going to step in and bang hard, and I think Silva catches him first, Rich stumbles and Silva pounces. But the same thing could easily happen in Rich's favor. But I'll stick with my gut, Silva.....


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## Damone

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Probably the two where he actually got punched in it...Loiseau and Machida. I don't know though wasn't my post.
> 
> I think Rich will remain the champ. Silva is a good striker and very explosive. But i don't think anyone besides Liddell has better striking angles than Rich Franklin (in the ufc). Franklin will come in with a great gameplan (hopefully he won't drop down to one knee after they touch gloves :laugh:. His chiin is in question, but everybody has a weak chin when they get hit on the right spot and it goes back and touches that nerve. it is lights out for anyone. Just needs to keep his mouth closed that's all.


He also got rocked by Tanner.

Evan Tanner is not known for his strikes.

Anderson Silva is.

Rich better take this fight to the ground. Machida came at Rich very aggressively, so if Silva does that, then Rich may be in trouble.


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## *IceMAn*

SlammedSL1 said:


> and who the hell are you?
> 
> Silva has 20 fights under his belt
> 
> Franklin has 21 fights
> 
> Just because you don't know who Silva is cause you're too busy ignoring other fighting organizations doesn't mean you need to post your BS here thanks :thumbsdown:


hey buddy u need to calm the hell down. Rich Franklin "Ace" 
Born: Ohio, USA 
Fighting Out Of: Cincinnati, Ohio 
Age: 31 
Height: 6.1 
Weight: 185 lbs. 
Overall MMA Record (W-L-D): 22-1-0 
Strengths: Excellent striking skills, good conditioning, well-roun 
looks like 23 fights to me buddy vs
Name Anderson Silva 
Nick Name The Spider 
Record 16 - 4 - 0 (Win - Loss - Draw) 
aight statistically franklin looks like the better fighter but im rootin for Silva too so step off wit ur BS


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## *IceMAn*

SlammedSL1 said:


> he stated incorrect information which he based his opinion off of, that's all :thumbsdown:


you need to check ur stats buddy and listen to GSPFAN and give me a break im the new poster


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## *IceMAn*

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Probably the two where he actually got punched in it...Loiseau and Machida. I don't know though wasn't my post.
> 
> I think Rich will remain the champ. Silva is a good striker and very explosive. But i don't think anyone besides Liddell has better striking angles than Rich Franklin (in the ufc). Franklin will come in with a great gameplan (hopefully he won't drop down to one knee after they touch gloves :laugh:. His chiin is in question, but everybody has a weak chin when they get hit on the right spot and it goes back and touches that nerve. it is lights out for anyone. Just needs to keep his mouth closed that's all.


LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
true that


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## kamikaze145

*Ace for sure*

Anderson is a solid striker and he is okay on the ground but I think Rich will submit him easily. Anderson Silva couldnt even handle ryo chonan on the ground and rich is bigger, stronger, more athletic, and more skilled than chonan. If it stays on the feet it will be interesting


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## onthebrink2

I am hoping Silva takes it. I got money on this fight.


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## Ceddy81

*Ceddy81*

They both got really nice left high kicks but I think standing aspect is even. On the ground Spider probably has to worry about Franklins strength advantage. But I'm going with SPIDER!


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## SilentFury

Turns out A. Silva hasn't been studying Franklin, guess fighters have different ways of preparing for a big fight.

Heres the link to an interview with A.Silva: UFC 64 Preview: Anderson Silva Interview

It's hard to say who'd come out victorious in this fight.
If I recall Franklin, just like Arlovski, has a glass chin. Both Tanner and Loiseau were able to drop him, what makes you think Silva won't be able to aswell?

But also remember that Tanner and Loiseau could not finish him, and in the end Franklin pretty much defines the word DOOM for them.
Rich has a great way of recovering and a great game plan in every fight.

The only way I see A. Silva winning this fight is to land a HUGE punch to finish him. If he can't dish that out, Franklin will just be slamming his ass all over the octagon.
Someones going to get knocked out.


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## coldandrew

i say silva by tko due to strikes in the second round


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## libertywrestler

to close to call for me


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## kobra ki

I hope this is a kick ass war whoever wins. The UFC can benefit from close matchups because 1:00minute blowouts lack something. 

I don't watch any other organization so I have never heard of ASilva. I have a problem with the title shot system. Does this guy deserve a title shot his (im guessing) 2nd ufc fight? The UFC certainly tries to maintain fighters like Diego dirty Sanchez w/o titleshots but other guys seem to get theirs sooner.


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## SilentFury

kobra ki said:


> The UFC certainly tries to maintain fighters like Diego dirty Sanchez w/o titleshots but other guys seem to get theirs sooner.


Well, like ive stated before in another topic, Dana is being careful with the TUF fighters after the result of Nate Quarry after only three fights.
Sure Deigo is undefeated, but just because he has a perfect record doesn't mean he can be sent to a title shot.

Another guess why they haven't put Diego to a title shot before Anderson Silva would be of how Diego fights.
Other than Kenflo and Brian Gassaway, Diego hasn't been able to finish off any of his opponents.

Silva on the other hand, is known for dismantling his opponents and making them look like they need to find another profession. He has won titles in different organizations before and have defeated some very skilled ex-Champions.


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## randyspankstito

It is kind of funny how the title fights are arranged. I don't believe that the ufc has a ranking system (which is unfortunate) so basically it comes down to deciding who can they make the most money off of while paying them the least. That's just my opinion though.


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## Grotty

randyspankstito said:


> It is kind of funny how the title fights are arranged. I don't believe that the ufc has a ranking system (which is unfortunate) so basically it comes down to deciding who can they make the most money off of while paying them the least. That's just my opinion though.


I agree with your opinion, i do think the UFC need to sort out a system so the paying public know when someones earned a shot.


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## yeahbuddy86

just a question I was wondering about. What will happen if Rich loses to Silva(which I highly doubt) for the winner of TUF4. Will they fight Silva in the finally. Just wanted to know since it would be strange to bring Rich in to train the competitors on the show thinking that he would be fighting one of them oven though he might not still be the champion once the finally arrives. just a thought


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## yand

The winner of TUF will have to fight whoever the current champ is. The prize is 100k and a title shot, I think?

When is the TUF finals anyway? I havent seen the date anywhere.


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## yeahbuddy86

Ultimate fighter 4 live finale is rumored to be on November 11 in Las Vegas


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## Organik

yeahbuddy86 said:


> Ultimate fighter 4 live finale is rumored to be on November 11 in Las Vegas


good info...


i hope silva wins


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## CroKid

Franklin. Silva is extremely accurate and will put up a good fight, but I can't seeing him have enough power to really put Franklin out.


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## Noddh

I call a KO but by whom???  

I want FRanklin but dam, i've done my homework, watch some of silva's fight, chek the stats and stuff, read the forum... I don't know man...Silva's fast and strong!

actually these days i'm cheking Cheick Kongo the new heavyweight strait from France who's, i hope so, gonna be the next good thing to happen in the HW division. Don't u think Sylvia is a big goon?!? Kongo is on the ufc 63 card (he was also on ufc 62), cheick it out!


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## yeahbuddy86

Noddh said:


> actually these days i'm cheking Cheick Kongo the new heavyweight strait from France who's, i hope so, gonna be the next good thing to happen in the HW division. Don't u think Sylvia is a big goon?!? Kongo is on the ufc 63 card (he was also on ufc 62), cheick it out!


Kongo is definitely a beast, he finished Christian Wellish off pretty good with a knee to the face a ufc 62. I would like to see more of him to really tell what kind of potential he has. Either way the heavyweight division needs all the help they can get.


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## yeahbuddy86

Noddh said:


> Kongo is on the ufc 63 card (he was also on ufc 62), cheick it out!


I think you mean ufc 64. Against Carmelo Marrero, whoever the hell that is.


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## Organik

yeahbuddy86 said:


> Kongo is definitely a beast, he finished Christian Wellish off pretty good with a knee to the face a ufc 62. I would like to see more of him to really tell what kind of potential he has. Either way the heavyweight division needs all the help they can get.



Kongo was impressive in that fight....


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## magnumcrook

*i go for Silva*

i go for silva because....he is no longer with chutebox or how ever u spell that. He is training with Antonio Nogueira so his ground game is not bad considering Antonio Nogueira cuz he is a ground wizard. Another thing is that rich never had tough fight like this before and anderson silva is a better striker. Last time he fought a fighter like anderson silva he got knockout out in da first round. So i go for Silva all the way. I see him knocking out Rich in the 2nd or 3rd round. And he has win over Lee murray who knock tito out in a street fight lol. :cheeky4: :laugh:


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## aubdoggy

I think this is a dangerous fight for Rich. Ive been saying for months that they should have big dan henderson fight rich, or some of the other guys like a few of the posts suggested. I think if Rich can survive past the first two rounds he will be a much better conditioned fighter. Silvia doesn't have the power in the late rounds, and I dont think hes ever come close to fighting five grueling rounds with a champion. If silvia wins, this will open the door to a lot of the pride guys. The pride guys will talk smack for a long time. So step up rich. Everyone knows that its only a matter of time before Hollywood or some other champ comes over and throws down. But you have to wonder, if Chuck isnt fighting Wvanderli because of a loss, then maybe the pride guys aren't as tough with the dif rules. Honestly, I love the UFC, but I think Pride is a lot deeper right now. It seems like UFC keeps fighting the same has been fighters over and over again.


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## TLB

I think as long as Rich Franklin moves around and doesn’t throw sloppy punches he shouldn’t have to much trouble standing with Silva, even if Silva does land some good shots Rich is well rounded and will be able to use his strength to get the fight to the ground.


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## Kainersain

*silva 2 win*

seriously if u watch silva in his cage rage fights u would realise wot a serious threat he is.
he has an outstanding ground game but he is the best striker in mma.
silva-ko round 2 via the anderson elbow


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## Organik

Kainersain said:


> seriously if u watch silva in his cage rage fights u would realise wot a serious threat he is.
> he has an outstanding ground game but he is the best striker in mma.
> silva-ko round 2 via the anderson elbow



for your first post.. it was a good one


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## onthebrink2

*Black Belt*

Anderson Silva is a black belt in Jiu-Jitsu. So his ground game is more than adequate. His striking is good as well. Should be a hell of a fight.


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## cicero1

I think Silva goes through him like butter.
I was very impressed with the knockout of Lieban.
Rich is far better then Lieban but Silva is better then Rich.
Silva 3 min round 1. TKO


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## Hundays

I have a feeling about this one guys... I think Franklin is gonna win.... but then Silva is gonna mess him up.... Franklin will lose..... then I'm gonna feel bad.


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## magnumcrook

*silva*

silva is black belt in BJJ training with Antonio Nogueira and u all know how good nogueira is on the ground and if u see silva vs jermy horne fight u'll know how good silva is and jeremy is considered a ground wizard. if interested go to youtube.com and search for silva they have silva vs horne fight there. Cheers Silva will defeat franklin Knockout or submission cuz he is better then franklin in both styles. Chao :cheeky4:


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## cabby

I'm not set on a prediction yet. I don't see Franklin losing anytime soon but if anybody can beat him it's gonna be Silva.


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## holla-well

franklin all the way


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## SilentFury

The only thing I see advantageous for Silva is his Crisp Striking and Rich's weak chin.

Everything else virtually is on Rich's side. Every physical attribute favors Rich. Im not all that sure on Silva's submission games, but seeing how Rich will man handle him..theres a chance he won't do to well on the ground with Rich.
One major skill Rich has is the ability to get through survival mode and recover at a hasty speed.

Only way Silva will win is to get a clean KO on Rich.


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## GSP for ME

Silva is impressive - very impressive. Those strikes can take anyone out. But Rich is very calculated in his moves. It will be an all-out war, but I think it will be brains over braun. Rich will keep his title.


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## Steve-d

all i know is the fight is in a few hours, i cant wait.


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## MMAforce

I told you all before. Babalu would get rocked and hes from pride, and he did get rocked. Now Wanderlei is from PRIDE, and he will get rocked also. Remember what I told you a month or two ago about the UFC having FAR better fighters than PRIDE, well now you get to see again tonight. PRIDE = basically what beat UFC'ers run to, and I am not saying that to mock any of you, or to be an ass. It is basically not as MMA as the UFC is. I was right last time, and I will be right this time. Silva will get his ass kicked.

Welcome to the UFC Gentleman!


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## cabby

so all pride fighters suck then eh?


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## flourhead

no they're just all afraid of chuck liddell


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## MMAforce

cabby said:


> so all pride fighters suck then eh?


*Not ALL Pride fighters suck, there may be 1 or 2 half decent ones. I mean whadya want? Take 100 people in a Christian church and you can bet your ass that 99%+ of them are believers in God, leaving 1% who just don't know. Take 100 UFC Fighters ((yeah I know there aren't 100)) and you can bet your ass that 99%+ of them are the best fighters in the World, leaving 1% half ass fighters. Take 100 Prisoners in the worst prison in the World, and you can bet your ass that 1% will be a kindhearted person and will regret whatever it is they did, leaving 99% cold hard bastards, and you take 100 Pride fighters and you can bet your ass that 1% can actually fight worth a damn, but the other 99% should retire and goto the WWF. There you have it. So no, not everyone in PRIDE sucks, becuase you will always have that 1% of pure randomness. And you can't say shit to that.*

Any more Questions?


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## cabby

MMAforce said:


> Not ALL Pride fighters suck, there may be 1 or 2 half decent ones. I mean whadya want? Take 100 people in a Christian church and you can bet your ass that 99%+ of them are believers in God, leaving 1% who just don't know. Take 100 UFC Fighters ((yeah I know there aren't 100)) and you can bet your ass that 99%+ of them are the best fighters in the World, leaving 1% half ass fighters. Take 100 Prisoners in the worst prison in the World, and you can bet your ass that 1% will be a kindhearted person and will regret whatever it is they did, leaving 99% cold hard bastards, and you take 100 Pride fighters and you can bet your ass that 1% can actually fight worth a damn, but the other 99% should retire and goto the WWF. There you have it. So no, not everyone in PRIDE sucks, becuase you will always have that 1% randomness. And you can't say shit to that.


alot of ufc fighters blow ass and alot of pride fighters blow ass. how can u say 99% of ufc fighters are the best in the world? the world isn't just america bud


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## flourhead

how many black belts does the UFC have compared to Pride?


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## [TUF] BeeZy

Its finally here.. hopefully its a good fight.. I think Franklin is going to be keeping his belt tonight:thumbsup:


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## [TUF] BeeZy

cabby said:


> alot of ufc fighters blow ass and alot of pride fighters blow ass. how can u say 99% of ufc fighters are the best in the world? the world isn't just america bud


UFC has a lot of fighters not from America


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## cabby

well ive seen alot more action from pride than i have from ufc. look at crocop, fedor, shogun. these guys would run through ufc


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## cicero1

Can anyone tell me where there is live updates on the fights tonight.
I have seen them on the net before bt forgot


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## MMAforce

cabby said:


> well ive seen alot more action from pride than i have from ufc. look at crocop, fedor, shogun. these guys would run through ufc


Your nuts, lol. As I said before, pride is more like martial art vs martial art, not all around bad ass like UFC. I say it how i see it man, truth hurts.


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## Raiders18

hahahaha k buddie Pride FC has more talented fighters than the UFC. They both have great fighters but pride are a bit better. To say pride has no one good you are an idiot. Cro Cop, Fedor and Shogun would demoslish anyone in the UFC. Fedor and Cro Cop are the number 1 and 2 best HW in the world and Shogun is arguably #1-3 with most people ranking him better than Chuck and Wandy.


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## cabby

Raiders18 said:


> HAHAHA k buddie Pride FC has more talented fighters than the UFC. They both have great fighter but pride are a bit better. To say they have no one good you are an idiot. Cro Cop, Fedor and Shogun would demoslish anyone in the UFC. Fedor and Cro Cop are the number 1 and 2 best HW in the world and Shogun is arguably #1-3.


i agree. im done complaining with that fool mmaforce. ill believe ufc is more badass when dana gets the balls to let pride champs enter ufc and fight their champs


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## flourhead

whats the point? AA could be undefeated too if he were in Pride fighting those sissies.


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## cabby

flourhead said:


> whats the point? AA could be undefeated too if he were in Pride fighting those sissies.


sissies? u dont know too much about mma do u?


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## Raiders18

Whats with all these guys in thinking UFC fighters even average ones are like MMA gods. When in reality Pride's fighters are better. I like AA but he would not do good in Pride HW division, not with the talent there.


----------



## cabby

Raiders18 said:


> Whats with all these guys in thinking UFC fighters even average ones are like MMA gods. When in reality Pride's fighters are better. I like AA but he would not do good in Pride HW division, not with the talent there.


i totally agree. i miss AA. i hope he comes back and wins the ufc heavyweight title back


----------



## Raiders18

I like AA aswell and i hope he comes back stonger than ever to regain that UFC HW title.


----------



## ThePhenom

wow wow wow ufc and pride both have hardcore fighters.....only way to find out would to have an invasion like wwf. bring over hunt, fedor, wanderlie, cro cop, hendo, sakuraba.....(ufc HW's stink though)


----------



## Raiders18

Yes i agree finally settle the debate of whos the best at each weight group.
A Pride vs UFC ppv.


----------



## Heeaye

I honestly don't know.

I want Silva to win. Something about Silva's fighting style makes me like him, I guess it's his aggressive nature. Rich Franklin has amazing endurance though. This is how I see it going:

If it ends in the first 2 rounds, it will be Silva's victory due to KO/TKO, due to his aggressiveness.

If it ends 3-5, it will be Franklin's due to his endurance.

If it goes to decision, I believe it will go to Silva due to his precision and accuracy.


----------



## cabby

damn silva is a bad man, didnt think rich would be taken out that easily


----------



## UFCFAN33

wow silva is the man :thumbsup: He proved he belongs


----------



## cabby

MMAforce said:


> Your nuts, lol. As I said before, pride is more like martial art vs martial art, not all around bad ass like UFC. I say it how i see it man, truth hurts.


so is the new middleweight champ not a badass? after all he was in pride so he must not be all that great according to u right?:laugh:


----------



## swits

Franklin is done! You won't see him back for a while.


----------



## cicero1

Cant believe anyone thoyght Rich would win after what Silva did to Leban at will.


----------



## swits

anderson silva will be hanging around for a while. He is very destructive in is attack and highly accurate.


----------



## magnumcrook

*haha*

just like i said, this guy silva is too good for franklin...did u see his nose...man i felt bad for rich, i also like rich but silva is one of my fav's. One thing is that bringing silva in UFC will bring alot of other good fighters from other organization....i wanna see mirko-crocop fighting chuck or something....crocop would destroy him....But silva definatly proved it tonite....he is the best striker in da middle weight class....


----------



## WandyBJPenn

WELL WORTH THE $$. I HAD A FEELING. THIS WENT QUICKER THAN THE LEBAN FIGHT. So whoever talked all that shit about Silva getting demolished, probably feels retarted lookin at Franklin get toyed with. This was pretty predictable. He was just waiting for his shots, and just took it when he could. Rich was hurt man, from the beginning.


----------



## dumitavi

*Fixed ?*

*For the first time since I've started whatching UFC fights, i had the feeling that this fight had been fixed. Franklin acted weird even on the way yo the cage, and after the fight had started he didn't seem to be the fighter we've all know for a while now. He didn't move the same way in the ring, his strikes weren't the same one and even though he said in the end that he didn't expect Silva to be so strong in the clinch, it seemed to me like he gave up really fast. And that's not Franklin. Not in the first round. No way. If I am wright about this, if this fight was what it seemed to be Dana White and the UFC should be ashamed of themselves.* :thumbsdown:


----------



## beamoflaser

dumitavi said:


> *For the first time since I've started whatching UFC fights, i had the feeling that this fight had been fixed. Franklin acted weird even on the way yo the cage, and after the fight had started he didn't seem to be the fighter we've all know for a while now. He didn't move the same way in the ring, his strikes weren't the same one and even though he said in the end that he didn't expect Silva to be so strong in the clinch, it seemed to me like he gave up really fast. And that's not Franklin. Not in the first round. No way. If I am wright about this, if this fight was what it seemed to be Dana White and the UFC should be ashamed of themselves.* :thumbsdown:



I AGREE DUDE I MEAN FRANKLIN DIDN'T BREAK HIS NOSE IT WAS PLASTIC, get real

why would they fix this fight after buildi up franklin so much?

i honestly think youre drunk right now like me because there is no way in hell anyone in there rite mind can right this garbage sober


----------



## oasis100

dumitavi said:


> *For the first time since I've started whatching UFC fights, i had the feeling that this fight had been fixed. Franklin acted weird even on the way yo the cage, and after the fight had started he didn't seem to be the fighter we've all know for a while now. He didn't move the same way in the ring, his strikes weren't the same one and even though he said in the end that he didn't expect Silva to be so strong in the clinch, it seemed to me like he gave up really fast. And that's not Franklin. Not in the first round. No way. If I am wright about this, if this fight was what it seemed to be Dana White and the UFC should be ashamed of themselves.* :thumbsdown:


You're just angry he lost. i think he lost cause he wasn't 100% going in the fight. Think about what you're saying. You think Rich Franklin would lose on purpose, even if he did, you think he would want to lose that way(broken nose and probably broken ribs also)?


----------



## pureredwhiteblu

I agree. It wasn't rigged. Rich Franklin is a true champion. He went in there and gave his best. He didn't expect the tie clinch to be that strong or effective.. That was brutal. Silva basically took the air out of Franklin. The defining moment is when he kneed him in the head. Rich was seeing stars and staggering back. And that was it. He'll regroup and come back and regain his title but hats off to Silva. A great victory.


----------



## dumitavi

oasis100 said:


> You're just angry he lost. i think he lost cause he wasn't 100% going in the fight. Think about what you're saying. You think Rich Franklin would lose on purpose, even if he did, you think he would want to lose that way(broken nose and probably broken ribs also)?


I hope you are right. It just seemed way too easy for Silva. Watch the fight again, and look at Franklin on the way to the ring. After that watch his other fights. Do you see the difference? 
It's hard for me to believe too, that UFC would do such a thing. In the same time, having the same undisputed champion for too long, is not good business either. People lose interest in the fights... So, who knows?


----------



## Raiders18

Anderson Silva is the man, he will definatly hold the MW belt for a while.


----------



## oasis100

dumitavi said:


> I hope you are right. It just seemed way too easy for Silva. Watch the fight again, and look at Franklin on the way to the ring. After that watch his other fights. Do you see the difference?
> It's hard for me to believe too, that UFC would do such a thing. In the same time, having the same undisputed champion for too long, is not good business either. People lose interest in the fights... So, who knows?


So i'm guessing you think Matt Hughes is going to lose on purpose too right? I don't think so man.


----------



## jamesbigdic

That was too fast of a fight. Rich was out of it. He's going back to teaching,
so he can tap some more teenage ass.


----------



## dumitavi

oasis100 said:


> So i'm guessing you think Matt Hughes is going to lose on purpose too right? I don't think so man.


I've never said that, he lost on purpose. If there was something going on in there, was done against his will. Like I said, maybe I'm wrong. I really hope so, because I love this sport too much and I wouldn't wanna stop watching it.


----------



## rommel

SlammedSL1 said:


> and who the hell are you?
> 
> Silva has 20 fights under his belt
> 
> Franklin has 21 fights
> 
> Just because you don't know who Silva is cause you're too busy ignoring other fighting organizations doesn't mean you need to post your BS here thanks :thumbsdown:


my first time at this forum and i see this.. hehe..
what an .......


----------



## uoolokpa

jamesbigdic said:


> That was too fast of a fight. Rich was out of it. He's going back to teaching,
> so he can tap some more teenage ass.



LOL!!! Thats hilarious!


----------



## ALSKI12

*Hold The Phone !*

HEY WHATS GOING ON HERE I GOT A PHONE CALL AND THEY TOLD ME FRANKLIN WON. BUT I AM READING HERE DIFFERENT ... SOMEONE FILL ME IN ON DETAILS AND HOW MANY ROUNDS PLEASE ...:dunno:


----------



## hero34

ALSKI12 said:


> HEY WHATS GOING ON HERE I GOT A PHONE CALL AND THEY TOLD ME FRANKLIN WON. BUT I AM READING HERE DIFFERENT ... SOMEONE FILL ME IN ON DETAILS AND HOW MANY ROUNDS PLEASE ...:dunno:


Well, not only Rich lost... he was DESTROYED by Silva's nasty knees! :thumbsup:


----------



## ALSKI12

*I Cant Wait Too See This Fight!*

How Long Did It Take ? Did Franklin Do Any Damage To Silva?


----------



## jaymackz

ALSKI12 said:


> How Long Did It Take ? Did Franklin Do Any Damage To Silva?


It was ended in the first round.....Franklin didnt inflict major damage to Silva..on the other hand...Silva made Franklins nose crooked and all ugly...and had him in the Muay Thai clinch the whole time


----------



## ALSKI12

*I Thought It Would Longer Fight.*

DUDE ... SO THEY CANT SAY FRANKLIN IS PRETTY ANYMORE IF HIS NOSE GOT ROCKED LIKE THAT ... I WONDER IF HE GONNA LOOK LIKE SHAMROCK'S WHEN ITS HEALED.! iTS BETTER FOR FIGHTERS TO LOOK LIEK FIGHTERS THEN PRETTY BOYS ANYWASY. TITO NEED SOMEONE TO MESS HIS FACE UP SOME ... I HOPE CHUCK GETS HIM ... BUT I DONT KNOW IF HE CAN ... TITO HAS GOTTEN BETTER.


----------



## jaymackz

ALSKI12 said:


> DUDE ... SO THEY CANT SAY FRANKLIN IS PRETTY ANYMORE IF HIS NOSE GOT ROCKED LIKE THAT ... I WONDER IF HE GONNA LOOK LIKE SHAMROCK'S WHEN ITS HEALED.! iTS BETTER FOR FIGHTERS TO LOOK LIEK FIGHTERS THEN PRETTY BOYS ANYWASY. TITO NEED SOMEONE TO MESS HIS FACE UP SOME ... I HOPE CHUCK GETS HIM ... BUT I DONT KNOW IF HE CAN ... TITO HAS GOTTEN BETTER.


hmm....can you do me a favor?...look at your keyboard and on the left hand side.....try to find the words "Caps Lock" press it. thanks !


----------



## ALSKI12

*lol sorry man*

hey ... my bad ... everyone tells me the same thing all the time ... but hey ... i'm old and have taken lots of shots to the head in my time ... so my eyes are not so good .... and the bigger letters are easier for me to read to thats why i use caps ... so give an old guy a lil break on the caps sometimes ... someday you will get old too but i hope your eyes dont go bad ... it sucks.


----------



## TheZar

called the fight right, but didnt see silva winning the way he did...his clinch was just awesome...


----------



## hbdale309

*Franklin's next match up*

So, Rich Franklin's next fight will be the winner of TUF 4... Correct? I wonder who Anderson will get next, maybe Swick or DL?


----------



## Adrnalnrsh

hbdale309 said:


> So, Rich Franklin's next fight will be the winner of TUF 4... Correct? I wonder who Anderson will get next, maybe Swick or DL?



No they wont fight Rich now, they get a title shot (a.k.a murdered!)


----------



## bimmu

hbdale309 said:


> So, Rich Franklin's next fight will be the winner of TUF 4... Correct? I wonder who Anderson will get next, maybe Swick or DL?


I think the contract was for the TUF4 guy to get a title shot, it would have been Franklin, but not anymore...it's against Silva...I pity the fool who wins TUF4.

I'm sure the two MW finalists just watched this on TV and have decided to throw the fight. It'll be two guys getting knocked out on phantom punches.


----------



## ALSKI12

*A Title Fight?*

There is no way the winner diserves a Title fight ...I think they should have to fight some ufc fights first. Does anyone know who wins between chonee carter and whats the other guys name ? Thunder ? Tornado ? i dont remember


----------



## bimmu

ALSKI12 said:


> There is no way the winner diserves a Title fight ...I think they should have to fight some ufc fights first. Does anyone know who wins between chonee carter and whats the other guys name ? Thunder ? Tornado ? i dont remember


Matt Serra, I think it's "Terror". I do think it's stupid that you win a reality show and get a title shot. At least with the other TUF winners, they just get a contract, but still need to move up the ranks...here, they just get a title shot and will probably get killed by whoever the champ is.


----------



## ALSKI12

*So No Contract ? Just Title Fight?*

So are you saying they dont get a million dollar contract ? They just get a title fight? I'd rather have the MILLION .


----------



## bimmu

ALSKI12 said:


> So are you saying they dont get a million dollar contract ? They just get a title fight? I'd rather have the MILLION .


They never had a million dollar contract, they got a "6 figure contract"...spread out over 3 years. Which comes out to like 33000 a year, depending on win loss records and all.


----------



## ALSKI12

*Lmfao ... I Thought It Was A Million Bucks.*

What a dum ass i am ... Lol thinking they got a Million bucks ... Ok that definatly sounds better . Does anyone have any predictions on the serra catrer fight?


----------



## bimmu

ALSKI12 said:


> What a dum ass i am ... Lol thinking they got a Million bucks ... Ok that definatly sounds better . Does anyone have any predictions on the serra catrer fight?


Boy, I hope Serra wins, I don't want to see Shonie in his bikini briefs anymore.


----------



## Real

*Whoops!*



Ken Shamrock said:


> I'm gonna go with Rich Franklin winning this one. I don't think he'll lose that UFC Middleweight Championship for a very long time.


Franklin got DESTROYED...


----------



## ShootBoxer

Franklin's not done. Not by a long shot.


----------



## ifightlikeagirl

*Franklin's Nose?*

Does anyone have a screencap of Franklin's nose? It was brutal and looked like a Picasso painting! I feel bad for the d00d, but I agree that he'll look like a fighter now, not that he didn't have street creds. The muscle shark/kenflo bout was one of the bloodiest ever! I almost thought Kenflo was going to submit with the reason being "He's bleeding in my eyes." I would think that having "Sean Sherk wins by bleeding on opponent" would be great in the record books.


----------



## Slick_Fugitive

you got that right, boy, UFC should start paying its fighters better so that they can up the calibre of competition .... I hate to admit it, but probably the better fighters are in Pride (especially after watching Silva destroy Franklin - he's not so pretty anymore) ... the better fighters like Hughes stick around because of endorsements from Xience and such make it more lucrative.


----------



## ShootBoxer

MMAforce said:


> I told you all before. Babalu would get rocked and hes from pride, and he did get rocked. Now Wanderlei is from PRIDE, and he will get rocked also. Remember what I told you a month or two ago about the UFC having FAR better fighters than PRIDE, well now you get to see again tonight. PRIDE = basically what beat UFC'ers run to, and I am not saying that to mock any of you, or to be an ass. It is basically not as MMA as the UFC is. I was right last time, and I will be right this time. Silva will get his ass kicked.
> 
> Welcome to the UFC Gentleman!



Not trying to flame you or anything bro. But I really hope you rethink your position on the "UFC Fighters" being better than "Pride Fighters". The organization does not determine the level of fighter you are.


----------



## Slick_Fugitive

I really, really wonder what happens to Franklin now ... I know fighters like Hughes and Tim Sylvia came back to avenge quick losses they suffered (B.J, Penn and Arlovski) and Franklin sometimes trains with that camp so maybe they'll give him some guidance. But the loss was so devastating and Franklin looked like he was so out-classed its hard to believe he can come back and beat Silva again ... so where does he go?


----------



## lilmissmar17

I just want to say that a quick fight doesn't mean that Silva is vastly better than Franklin, especially by KO. A hundred fights between the same two guys could have various outcomes, but they're both great and congrats to Silva.

Also, about the Pride vs UFC thing. Sakuraba and Liddel are both dominant in their MMA brands, I've seen both lose when they crossed over. I think the difference between fighting in a caged octagon and in a boxing ring has some real differences.

Last...I wanna see the Crow go up against Silva. Two amazing strikers with mad quickness, it'd be a cool fight to see, but I think if Silva got it to the ground, it'd be over pretty quick.


----------



## Slick_Fugitive

I don't know man, I'm sure he'll make the best effort because he is a champ but I don't believe he has the natural ability to stand and strike with Silva ... I knew he should've taken the fight to the ground, still difficult with Anderson Silva but surely better than his standup


----------



## Slick_Fugitive

dumitavi said:


> *For the first time since I've started whatching UFC fights, i had the feeling that this fight had been fixed. Franklin acted weird even on the way yo the cage, and after the fight had started he didn't seem to be the fighter we've all know for a while now. He didn't move the same way in the ring, his strikes weren't the same one and even though he said in the end that he didn't expect Silva to be so strong in the clinch, it seemed to me like he gave up really fast. And that's not Franklin. Not in the first round. No way. If I am wright about this, if this fight was what it seemed to be Dana White and the UFC should be ashamed of themselves.* :thumbsdown:


You're right about one thing, Franklin didn't seem like himself at all for the last little bit, even the interview on Spike the night of the Ortiz-Shamrock fight he seemed tentative. Walking to the Octagon, he seemed very tense, nervous, concerned, whereas Silva was calm and collected. These fights aren't fixed, dude, you're thinking of wrestling. I really don't know where Franklin goes from here, I don't think he'll be champ again at middleweight as long as Silva is around. He was completely outclassed and had his face literally rearranged


----------



## Damone

Franklin needs to either learn how to work in the clinch, or just avoid it altogether. The latter would be the better.

This fight wasn't fixed. Silva just came in, took his sweet time at first, and then aggressively went at Rich. Franklin had no answer for it, couldn't work in the clinch, and was decimated with knee's. Franklin tried to bully him around at first, and that didn't work.


----------



## Slick_Fugitive

lilmissmar17 said:


> I just want to say that a quick fight doesn't mean that Silva is vastly better than Franklin, especially by KO. A hundred fights between the same two guys could have various outcomes, but they're both great and congrats to Silva.
> 
> Also, about the Pride vs UFC thing. Sakuraba and Liddel are both dominant in their MMA brands, I've seen both lose when they crossed over. I think the difference between fighting in a caged octagon and in a boxing ring has some real differences.
> 
> Last...I wanna see the Crow go up against Silva. Two amazing strikers with mad quickness, it'd be a cool fight to see, but I think if Silva got it to the ground, it'd be over pretty quick.


David L'Oiseau doesn't deserve a shot at the title, not by a long shot. Moreover, he'd be run over by Silva. Remember, he just got beat up by Jorge Rivera, would have lost to Evan Tanner were it not for a nasty cut he opened, and literally ran from Franklin, a guy who had a broken hand, for 5 rounds. MIKE SWICK is the next bonafide challenger for sure


----------



## Damone

Mike Swick won't last 2 minutes. It'd be a fun slaughter though.


----------



## BrutalKO

*Rich Franklin vs. Anderson Silva*

...WOW... didn't expect Franklin to give up his belt...but to lose that badly? I knew Silva was good but....dang. Franklin didn't show up...simple as that. Not taking anything away from Silva, but Franklin could not break Silva's Muy Thai clinch, that was his undoing...Silva's knees to Franklin's midsection broke him down quick...then those 2 nasty knees... one flush with Franklin's chin, the other knee was square in the face landing flush on Franklin's nose....ouch! I believe there will be a rematch with Franklin getting his revenge and the Title back...:thumbsup:


----------



## Slick_Fugitive

Damone said:


> Mike Swick won't last 2 minutes. It'd be a fun slaughter though.


no man, swick is so surprising and he'll learn a thing or 2 about Anderson and a better strategy than Franklin used. I still think Silva will win, but he'll do far better than Franklin and Leben


----------



## Slick_Fugitive

BrutalKO said:


> ...WOW... didn't expect Franklin to give up his belt...but to lose that badly? I knew Silva was good but....dang. Franklin didn't show up...simple as that. Not taking anything away from Silva, but Franklin could not break Silva's Muy Thai clinch, that was his undoing...Silva's knees to Franklin's midsection broke him down quick...then those 2 nasty knees... one flush with Franklin's chin, the other knee was square in the face landing flush on Franklin's nose....ouch! I believe there will be a rematch with Franklin getting his revenge and the Title back...:thumbsup:


It's hard to believe Franklin can come far enough to get over that devastating loss. I think he lost the mental game before the fight. It just seems he lacks the natural gifts that anderson has .... like I said, I don't know where he goes from here, I think there will be a rematch but it'll be the same result. A fighter like Mike Swick has a better chance at this point


----------



## Damone

Slick_Fugitive said:


> no man, swick is so surprising and he'll learn a thing or 2 about Anderson and a better strategy than Franklin used. I still think Silva will win, but he'll do far better than Franklin and Leben


Swick keeps his hands way too low. His chin pretty much has a big red flashing sign that says "HIT ME!". Swick's chin is questionable as well.


----------



## BrutalKO

WandyBJPenn...nice call on the fight. Silva's knees were vicious...only other person in the MW Division that can match him would be Franklin. Everybody else is chopped Liver. Our UFC fighters are scared..and they should be...Pride fighters will take all the Belts.


----------



## cabby

Slick_Fugitive said:


> It's hard to believe Franklin can come far enough to get over that devastating loss. I think he lost the mental game before the fight. It just seems he lacks the natural gifts that anderson has .... like I said, I don't know where he goes from here, I think there will be a rematch but it'll be the same result. A fighter like Mike Swick has a better chance at this point


Yeah Franklin didn't seem himself before the fight. He didn't look at confident as he usually does. I felt bad for him last night. He got his butt handed to him courtesy of the thai clinch. Silva is very impressive. I didn't even bet on this fight it was gonna be a close call to me. But damn, it was a fast ending fight.


----------



## Slick_Fugitive

Damone said:


> Swick keeps his hands way too low. His chin pretty much has a big red flashing sign that says "HIT ME!". Swick's chin is questionable as well.


ha ha ... but after "Unstoppable" don't you think everyone is going to seriously start thinking about how to stop Silva? I think a good game plan can do it and Mike Swick has the tools to pull it off. I don't think Anderson will have as easy a time anymore. He finished Rich in a similar manner to Leben, people are going to start understanding Silva's MO.


----------



## sammy

This is my first post here, I just want to say whats up. Also, one page back there was talk about the fight being fixed, I have always had some small feeling about the UFC being fixed in some way or another. If it is the case about this Franklin fight, I will say this: last night's fight was the first pay per view ufc I haven't got in a long time. Why....because I just don't get that excited about Rich Franklin. I like him as a fighter and his record speaks for itself but he's just not exciting, i'm sorry but it's the truth. Also, I will say this too which I am sure has been mentioned before but he has no chin. My favorite fighter in the ufc...as painfull as this is to say right now, is David Louaso. I was scared for Rich in that fight but Dave fought like an [email protected]#king pu%^y. He is still young though.


----------



## RevnR6

Sup guys, this is also my first post here. Reason I was posting today is I wanted to see what kind of talk was going on about Franklins fight last night. I do not think the fight was fixed, but I do want to know what is wrong with Rich. I want to know if he is ok. I am not his friend or anything but to me it looked like something was wrong with him from the second we saw him tonight. I even mentioned to my girlfriend that Franklin didn't look right. To me he fought like someone whose wife just divorced him. The same kind of look I see from athletes who had some sort of big personal problem right before an event. 
Now I dont want anyone to think I am saying Rich needs to air his dirty laundry but It would be nice to know that there was a reason for him not being all there last night.


----------



## cabby

RevnR6 said:


> Sup guys, this is also my first post here. Reason I was posting today is I wanted to see what kind of talk was going on about Franklins fight last night. I do not think the fight was fixed, but I do want to know what is wrong with Rich. I want to know if he is ok. I am not his friend or anything but to me it looked like something was wrong with him from the second we saw him tonight. I even mentioned to my girlfriend that Franklin didn't look right. To me he fought like someone whose wife just divorced him. The same kind of look I see from athletes who had some sort of big personal problem right before an event.
> Now I dont want anyone to think I am saying Rich needs to air his dirty laundry but It would be nice to know that there was a reason for him not being all there last night.


Alot of us feel the same way. I'm guessing we will never find out. But if Rich does say anything about it, people will spread it like wildfire


----------



## x X CLoud X x

I wanted Rich to Win and also placed money on him, but if he were to lose to anybody, it would have been Silva, world class fighter, he's better at Striking and also Ground Game then Rich...

Rich is going to be out of commission for awhile and i dont see a rematch anytime soon, until he heals physically and mentally, i honestly dont think there are good enough fighters to stop some of the Pride guys if they came over... Silva is going to hold onto it for awhile

Rich took some punishment..... i felt bad for Rich, he was taking them hard... that is one helluva Clinch..... Rich could not break loose for shit..

and to the idiot who thinks Rich threw the fight, no fighter especially champ will throw any fight to Blemish there record and pride... it takes alot of mental conditioning for any fighter to prepare for a fight and recover from a loss... 

Rich did the best he could and simply got Outclassed, if you watch closely, Rich throws a few punches/kicks, then Silva sized him up, and saw rich didnt have much and started dancing around Rich, and missed the 1st clinch, but 
2nd clinch was locked on, and Rich ****ed up by underestimating him, and wasnt successful enough to break out of it... 

1 last thing, i wouldnt be surprised that Dana White set Rich up to lose, to a better fighter, he knew Silva was going to win, and that is why Silva got that Title shot so fast, only 1 fight in his UFC appearance and a Title was offered... Rich's contract with UFC is petty compared to what he could have asked for if he Retained his Belt, but since he lost it, Dana now wont give Rich the Money he deserves and is now going to be able to keep him right where he wants him and that is Underpaid and still fighting for UFC


ps- UFC fighters are in no where near the class of Pride, much less K1.. Chuck liddell got his ass beat over there and so did Rich and a few others as well by Pride fighters..


----------



## dumitavi

Slick_Fugitive said:


> You're right about one thing, Franklin didn't seem like himself at all for the last little bit, even the interview on Spike the night of the Ortiz-Shamrock fight he seemed tentative. Walking to the Octagon, he seemed very tense, nervous, concerned, whereas Silva was calm and collected. These fights aren't fixed, dude, you're thinking of wrestling. I really don't know where Franklin goes from here, I don't think he'll be champ again at middleweight as long as Silva is around. He was completely outclassed and had his face literally rearranged


Are there fixed fights in boxing or not? I am not thinking about wrestling as you say. I am only saying it might have been fixed. Maybe not. I don't know. It just feeled weird, all the way from the locker room till the fight ended. That's why I've said it.


----------



## dumitavi

Slick_Fugitive said:


> David L'Oiseau doesn't deserve a shot at the title, not by a long shot. Moreover, he'd be run over by Silva. Remember, he just got beat up by Jorge Rivera, would have lost to Evan Tanner were it not for a nasty cut he opened, and literally ran from Franklin, a guy who had a broken hand, for 5 rounds. MIKE SWICK is the next bonafide challenger for sure


I actually think Loiseau is a better match up for Silva then Franklin.


----------



## dumitavi

Slick_Fugitive said:


> It's hard to believe Franklin can come far enough to get over that devastating loss. I think he lost the mental game before the fight. It just seems he lacks the natural gifts that anderson has .... like I said, I don't know where he goes from here, I think there will be a rematch but it'll be the same result. A fighter like Mike Swick has a better chance at this point


There would be no difference between Silva vs Swick and Franklin vs Quarry in my opinion. Swick is a very promising fighter but rushing into a fight with SIlva at this point would be a big mistake for him.


----------



## qbanwayz

Originally Posted by beamoflaser
their only hopes of beating silva is to catch him with some crazy submission like a flying heel hook or seomthing 

Yea, Ryo Chonan did that to silva in pride. But one thing I keep hearing here since anderson silva beat franklin is now he is unstopabale and no one in the ufc middle weight can take him. Let me tell you something, I watch nothing but mma and ive seen 8 of silva fight including 3 of his losses and i will tell you that his black belt in bbj is bullshit. He lost in pride to 2 pride japenesse fighters and 1 of them is probally the worst fighter to date. He lost to Daiju Yakase via a triangle choke. Takase has a record of 7 wins and 11 losses ( weak ass chin). He also lost to Ryo Chonnan via flying heel hook. Chonan has a record of 12 - 7 with 4 of his losses came from tough pride fighter such as Dan Henderson and Phil "the New York Badass" Boronni ( former ufc compitetor). Anderson Silva losses was not in his early carreer but they actuall happen recently ( in an MMA since) His losses came in 2003 & 2004. My point is he has holes in his ground game and has shown it againts week fighters with weak chin, I'm not saying he is bad in the ground, but franklin better. Franklin never lost by submission and he has submitted people rather easily.Frankling made a bad mistake clinching with silva but he ca go toe to toe with anderson. Unfuronatly since you guys saw him loose so quicly you think otherwise but all great fighters have been put to the test againts weaker oppenents and siva is a weaker fighter compared to Franklin. Franklin is a great champ and unfutonatly sometimes you loose to a fighter even if you a better fighter ( take Mirko Cro-Cop vs Kevin Randleman - first round knockout) Rich Franklin will show you guys why he was a true champ and just cause he lost in a devestating fasion I can gurentee you that he will come back with a vengance. Thier going to give Frankling a title shot after he fights Mike Swick and probaly by UFC 66 you will see Silva vs Franklin 2. Remember these words. (sorry this was such a long comment)


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## ttcomerford

*Leben*

Who else thinks that Chris Leben may have gained a little more credibility by seeing Silva rearrange Franklin's face in two minutes. Leben admitted that he didn't know who Silva was and he underestimated him. When Leben was beat he was up right afterwards cussing himself, not trying to put his nose back on. I would like to see a Swick v. Leben fight for a title shot.


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## dumitavi

sammy said:


> This is my first post here, I just want to say whats up. Also, one page back there was talk about the fight being fixed, I have always had some small feeling about the UFC being fixed in some way or another. If it is the case about this Franklin fight, I will say this: last night's fight was the first pay per view ufc I haven't got in a long time. Why....because I just don't get that excited about Rich Franklin. I like him as a fighter and his record speaks for itself but he's just not exciting, i'm sorry but it's the truth. Also, I will say this too which I am sure has been mentioned before but he has no chin. My favorite fighter in the ufc...as painfull as this is to say right now, is David Louaso. I was scared for Rich in that fight but Dave fought like an [email protected]#king pu%^y. He is still young though.


Rich Franklin may not be as exciting as you expect a fighter to smart be. I don't know what exactly do you expect from a fighter. But I know one thing, he is a very smart fighter. A very profesional fighter as well. That's why the fight between him and Silva didn't make any sense to me. In my opinion, he either didn't have enough info on Silva, which is very hard to believe, or the fight was fixed.


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## Damone

dumitavi said:


> I actually think Loiseau is a better match up for Silva then Franklin.


I really don't want to see Loiseau running away from Silva.

In fact, I don't want to see Loiseau period. The guy choked twice already, and would choke a third time.

THE FIGHT WASN'T FIXED, PEOPLE! Stop with this crap. Franklin lost to a better fighter last night. Silva used an aggressive gameplan. Machida also used an aggressive gameplan. Both beat Franklin.


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## dumitavi

x X CLoud X x said:


> and to the idiot who thinks Rich threw the fight, no fighter especially champ will throw any fight to Blemish there record and pride... it takes alot of mental conditioning for any fighter to prepare for a fight and recover from a loss...
> 
> ..


Nobody said Rich threw the fight. Read more carefully before you start quoting people. What was said, is that the fight could have been fixed. If this was done, I am sure was done against his will.


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## Badboy81

qban I got to agree with you man. I was unlucky enough not to see the fight but I have see all of his other fights and read a great deal about this one and everyone seems to agree that Rich was not himself. Wheither it be from such a long layoff or personal problems who knows. The point is this Rich is a Great Champion he has already proven that and all Great Champions will rise to the occasion. If he was outclassed then he will improve where he needs to and come back with a vengence. It just takes Hard Work, and ill tell you what I know of few guys who work harder than Rich Franklin.


If I was him I would kiss my wife goodbye and move to Tai Land for a while to find the best Muy Tai Trainers I could!


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## dumitavi

qbanwayz said:


> Originally Posted by beamoflaser
> their only hopes of beating silva is to catch him with some crazy submission like a flying heel hook or seomthing
> 
> Yea, Ryo Chonan did that to silva in pride. But one thing I keep hearing here since anderson silva beat franklin is now he is unstopabale and no one in the ufc middle weight can take him. Let me tell you something, I watch nothing but mma and ive seen 8 of silva fight including 3 of his losses and i will tell you that his black belt in bbj is bullshit. He lost in pride to 2 pride japenesse fighters and 1 of them is probally the worst fighter to date. He lost to Daiju Yakase via a triangle choke. Takase has a record of 7 wins and 11 losses ( weak ass chin). He also lost to Ryo Chonnan via flying heel hook. Chonan has a record of 12 - 7 with 4 of his losses came from tough pride fighter such as Dan Henderson and Phil "the New York Badass" Boronni ( former ufc compitetor). Anderson Silva losses was not in his early carreer but they actuall happen recently ( in an MMA since) His losses came in 2003 & 2004. My point is he has holes in his ground game and has shown it againts week fighters with weak chin, I'm not saying he is bad in the ground, but franklin better. Franklin never lost by submission and he has submitted people rather easily.Frankling made a bad mistake clinching with silva but he ca go toe to toe with anderson. Unfuronatly since you guys saw him loose so quicly you think otherwise but all great fighters have been put to the test againts weaker oppenents and siva is a weaker fighter compared to Franklin. Franklin is a great champ and unfutonatly sometimes you loose to a fighter even if you a better fighter ( take Mirko Cro-Cop vs Kevin Randleman - first round knockout) Rich Franklin will show you guys why he was a true champ and just cause he lost in a devestating fasion I can gurentee you that he will come back with a vengance. Thier going to give Frankling a title shot after he fights Mike Swick and probaly by UFC 66 you will see Silva vs Franklin 2. Remember these words. (sorry this was such a long comment)


I completely agree on th efact that Franklin is a better fighter than Silva, anf that's why I think this fight was fixed.


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## putmeonhold

Badboy81 said:


> If I was him I would kiss my wife goodbye and move to Tai Land for a while to find the best Muy Tai Trainers I could!


That's crazy. You don't go train another man's gameplan. You work your gameplan. Rich's gameplan went to sh*t last night. He was not himself, even if he was, I don't know if the outome would've been different. But it would've at least been a war and went 4 or 5 rounds


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## Badboy81

Sure you train another mans game plan. You may not use it but u sure as hell train on it. Point in fact Franklin had no Idea how to escape silvas clinch if he had been more profecient in Muy Tai he might have had a answer for silvas clinch.


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## khaldun007

bimmu said:


> Matt Serra, I think it's "Terror". I do think it's stupid that you win a reality show and get a title shot. At least with the other TUF winners, they just get a contract, but still need to move up the ranks...here, they just get a title shot and will probably get killed by whoever the champ is.


well it's not like these guys haven't done their time. they've all fought in the ufc and all of them arguably deserved another chance but the ufc is kind of mean to fighters who lose a couple of fights with them like BJ PENN. I hope to see him VERY soon because he is undoubtedly one of the best fighters of 155ibs and near the top of 170ibs. whatever though. should be interesting. i dont think any fighters can stand with silva though in middleweight at the moment.

rich franklin lost because it wasn't his night. he may have underestimated the trouble his not traning as much after breaking his hand had on him. 
There are plenty of tough guys in middle weight. Silva is good, but everyone has holes in their game, and everyone can have a bad night so its possible for someone to beat him obviously. I wish the fight lasted longer so I could see more of his skills though.


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## cabby

khaldun007 said:


> i dont think any fighters can stand with silva though in middleweight.


I don't think so either. The guy is so damn impressive. He's a bad dude


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## ALSKI12

*The SILVA FRANKLIN FIGHT !*

DOES ANYONE HAVE A LINK TO WHERE THE SITE IS SHOWN ? I REALY WANNA SEE IT BAD ! ANY HELP WOULD BE SWEET .


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## Organik

cicero1 said:


> I think Silva goes through him like butter.
> I was very impressed with the knockout of Lieban.
> Rich is far better then Lieban but Silva is better then Rich.
> Silva 3 min round 1. TKO



hahaha crazzzyy


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## ring of honor 88

well Im suprised by the outcome but man that was a shocking finish in my eyes


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## jaymackz

ring of honor 88 said:


> well Im suprised by the outcome but man that was a shocking finish in my eyes


I was just as suprised as you are...I always viewed Rich as an unstoppable force...someone who always come out with the win no matter what......really made me feel bad when he lost...oh well theres Silva to look up to now


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## holla-well

well i dont like how the fight ended but there is nothing i can do about it. All i have got to say is that rich "ace" franklin is #1 in my book and he always will be. I just hope this fight will make him stronger, train even harder that he does, and i hope this loss will make him come back as an even better fighter than he already is and take back the belt.


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## anton

i do not understand so many people's suprise here...

anyone with knowledge of mma outside the ufc knew silva's standup was better then anyone in the UFC's MW division...

it was also not a secret that franklin would stand up in this fight...the equation here is simple.


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## holla-well

jaymackz said:


> I was just as suprised as you are...I always viewed Rich as an unstoppable force...someone who always come out with the win no matter what......really made me feel bad when he lost...oh well theres Silva to look up to now


it was the guys knees that got rich. Silva has long legs in which thats where he had teh advantage. & i agree with rich that he shouldve had a couple more fights befor he got a chance at a title fight. & i dont think Silva will be able to do comercials b/c he cant speak english.


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## tapout81

holla-well said:


> it was the guys knees that got rich. Silva has long legs in which thats where he had teh advantage. _*& i agree with rich that he shouldve had a couple more fights befor he got a chance at a title fight.*_ & i dont think Silva will be able to do comercials b/c he cant speak english.



I totally disagree. Silva is not an amateur, he's been around, and has beaten his fair share of great fighters. He definitely deserved that title shot. The only reason franklin said that was because he knew silva would end his run as champion. i am also a big franklin fan, but its silvas time now. Cant wait to see who the next victim will be.


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## jaymackz

^ i hope it isnt Mike Swick.....if it were mike...that would be no challenge for Silva =/


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## 10e

*First time post here, disappointed by main fight*

Hey all,

Nice to see all the pre and post-fight buzz concerning the Silva/Franklin fight. Congrats to Anderson Silva on a stunning win for the belt. I think both he and Rich Franklin are classy fighters who are really good for the sport.

While I did see Silva destroy Chris Leben, I didn't think that he would have his way with Franklin like he did. Franklin just looked wrong last night.

First off, he was sweating when he came into the Octagon, and he didn't look like his normally confident (but not arrogant) self. I don't think he was ready to fight, and I think he knew it too. Franklin is not the kind of guy who is afraid of anyone except when he knows he is not ready. Because he is a classy fighter, he gave Silva full credit for the win.

Beyond that, a number of telling areas reinforce my feeling. In the clench, he didn't look as active as I've seen in the past. At one point, there was a bit of space between him and Silva, and I thought for sure, Silva was going to be on the receiving end of some nasty body shots or knees, but Franklin just looked like he was struggling and flailing.

About 45 seconds prior to the end, Silva practically threw Franklin into the fence when Franklin tried to pull away from the clench. I've seen some tough guys try that on Franklin in the past, and he either spun away or pushed them away, but he often ended up in an advantageous position. This time, Franklin looked like he was just trying to keep his feet. I don't think Silva is physically stronger than he is, but he truly looked like it here.

I look forward to seeing more of Anderson Silva's fights, but I do believe Franklin will be back and next time they face each other, the fight will be much more competitive.

Cheers,

10e


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## Mc19

10e said:


> First off, he was sweating when he came into the Octagon,


 Thats no excuse. He should be sweating from warming up. You never want to go into a fight cold.


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## BrutalKO

*Franklin vs Anderson Silva*

Isn't Silva a PRIDE fighter? "They're here"! Silva is just the beginning. Fedor, CC, Wandy, Rampage, The UFC will painfully loose the Belts to the Pride fighters...it's only a matter of time.

P.S. Liddell is my boy but he's our only hope...lol


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## Damone

Silva did fight in Pride, yes.


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## cabby

BrutalKO said:


> Isn't Silva a PRIDE fighter? "They're here"! Silva is just the beginning. Fedor, CC, Wandy, Rampage, The UFC will painfully loose the Belts to the Pride fighters...it's only a matter of time.
> 
> P.S. Liddell is my boy but he's our only hope...lol


Haha yeah ur right. Liddell probably is the only belt holder that wouldn't lose. Hughes would probably keep his also or should i say GSP in the near future


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## goorackerelite

*Rich lost Because......*

He changed his theme song

Haha J/K! I gotta give to to Silva for outclassing Rich on this one. That clench was just brutal to watch. He was hurt little puppy right after the first knee to his right ribs. That'll take alot of the fight outta of ya, and that knee to his nose!!!!! OMG!!!!! they showed that in slow motion about 6 times and I cringed every time I saw his nose shift two inches right. OUCH!!!!!!!!! I think that if the fight went on longer, Rich would have busted his broken rythem tricks and thrown Anderson off. 

But why oh why did Rich reach his right hand to the back of Silva head, when it should have been lowerd to defend against the knees? My guess is to defend possible elbows? Opinions please.


----------



## f-dog

*Somethings Rotten in the State of Denmark*

Franklin pummeled Loiseau for over 15 min with a bum hand. His performace last night had nothing to do with his hand. It was suspicious at best. A guy like Rich Franklin doesn't loose the way he did unless the winner is predetermined. Watch the fight a few more times. You'll notice some very pecuilar things.


----------



## 5 Rounds

*Very peculiar indeed*



PHP:


You'll notice some very pecuilar things

I just seen the fight again in slow motion and I agree. It's very peculiar to see a nose bend like that... I wonder if that was his real nose or if that really was Franklin. Very peculiar indeed.


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## yand

Bull Shit. The fight was not fixed. I think its hilarious when people come up with these conspiracy theories. Let me guess, you dont believe we went to the moon and GWB bombed the twin towers. Right?

Franklin looked off because he was nervous. Silva is a bad man. Toughest person Rich ever faced, bar none. He got his ass kicked. End of story. Im sure he will be back, put up a better fight and may or may not get the belt back. But I guarantee it was not fixed. Thats insane.

His hand may have had something mental to do with it, at best. I think the tapes of Silva beating people senseless had more to do with it than anything. Im going to rent the replay. Ive heard all this nonsense, I gotta see it. Shoulda rented it last night. Just a weak fight card is the only reason I layed off. That was the only interesting fight.

Posting crap like it was fixed does nothing but take away any credibility any of your opinions may have had to begin with and an insult to the sport of MMA.:thumbsdown:


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## yand

Stunt doubles? Fake noses? Oh my god!! What BS...


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## 5 Rounds

I was laying the sarcasm down pretty think. I guess you didn’t pick up on that one.


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## BigBadBruce

yand said:


> Bull Shit. The fight was not fixed. I think its hilarious when people come up with these conspiracy theories. Let me guess, you dont believe we went to the moon and GWB bombed the twin towers. Right?
> 
> Franklin looked off because he was nervous. Silva is a bad man. Toughest person Rich ever faced, bar none. He got his ass kicked. End of story. Im sure he will be back, put up a better fight and may or may not get the belt back. But I guarantee it was not fixed. Thats insane.
> 
> His hand may have had something mental to do with it, at best. I think the tapes of Silva beating people senseless had more to do with it than anything. Im going to rent the replay. Ive heard all this nonsense, I gotta see it. Shoulda rented it last night. Just a weak fight card is the only reason I layed off. That was the only interesting fight.
> 
> Posting crap like it was fixed does nothing but take away any credibility any of your opinions may have had to begin with and an insult to the sport of MMA.:thumbsdown:


The fight wasn't fixed and about the GWB thing, you never know. Too many coincidences in one day but that's a different discussion for a different forum.

I think Silva was going to win all along. Franklin out 7 months without a fight. I mean under his eyes didn't look too well, he didn't look too well overall. I don't think it was his mentality but his lenght out of the ring. I think it kind of sucks for him that they set him up with such a supreme fighter when he's been out that long. I guess they wanted a new champ. I have a feeling this a matt hughes vs BJ Penn type of thing. 

I think Ace learnt from his mistakes, probably rematch soon and he'll regain his title back. Franklin, in my opinion, is still the better fighter. He has so much stamina, agility and strength but being out 7 months, everything is going to be out of sync.


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## BigBadBruce

10e said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Nice to see all the pre and post-fight buzz concerning the Silva/Franklin fight. Congrats to Anderson Silva on a stunning win for the belt. I think both he and Rich Franklin are classy fighters who are really good for the sport.
> 
> While I did see Silva destroy Chris Leben, I didn't think that he would have his way with Franklin like he did. Franklin just looked wrong last night.
> 
> First off, he was sweating when he came into the Octagon, and he didn't look like his normally confident (but not arrogant) self. I don't think he was ready to fight, and I think he knew it too. Franklin is not the kind of guy who is afraid of anyone except when he knows he is not ready. Because he is a classy fighter, he gave Silva full credit for the win.
> 
> Beyond that, a number of telling areas reinforce my feeling. In the clench, he didn't look as active as I've seen in the past. At one point, there was a bit of space between him and Silva, and I thought for sure, Silva was going to be on the receiving end of some nasty body shots or knees, but Franklin just looked like he was struggling and flailing.
> 
> About 45 seconds prior to the end, Silva practically threw Franklin into the fence when Franklin tried to pull away from the clench. I've seen some tough guys try that on Franklin in the past, and he either spun away or pushed them away, but he often ended up in an advantageous position. This time, Franklin looked like he was just trying to keep his feet. I don't think Silva is physically stronger than he is, but he truly looked like it here.
> 
> I look forward to seeing more of Anderson Silva's fights, but I do believe Franklin will be back and next time they face each other, the fight will be much more competitive.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 10e


Cha-ching. This guy took the words out of my mouth.
I'm still blaming it on the 7 months. Maybe silva might have won still but we'll never know.


----------



## qbanwayz

Badboy81 said:


> qban I got to agree with you man. I was unlucky enough not to see the fight but I have see all of his other fights and read a great deal about this one and everyone seems to agree that Rich was not himself. Wheither it be from such a long layoff or personal problems who knows. The point is this Rich is a Great Champion he has already proven that and all Great Champions will rise to the occasion. If he was outclassed then he will improve where he needs to and come back with a vengence. It just takes Hard Work, and ill tell you what I know of few guys who work harder than Rich Franklin.
> 
> 
> If I was him I would kiss my wife goodbye and move to Tai Land for a while to find the best Muy Tai Trainers I could!


If you want to see the fight for free go to torrentspy.com and download ufc64. All you need is a torrent app like bitcomet (bitcomet.com). and download the video. I watched it last night with my family, but I have to say never before and I mean never have I felt emmotional about a fighter loose until I saw Franklin loose. I dont mean emotional like i went on my knees and stareded crying but I was sad. I felt pain just because of the way he lost. I've seen great fighters (even my favorite) loose, weither knock out or submission but this one was different. The reason why is because people now look at Franklin as an underated champion and are never going to relize his greatness unless he redeems himself and knocks out silva viciously which I think he can. I feel bad also because people will look at him diferently all you here in these treads and articles are how bad he got kcocked out and how messed up his noose was. He is going to go throw some hard personal times because even though he has been knocked out before it was never like this with his belt and his fans on the line. I guess I not only feel bad because he is such a classy fighter but I know he is a classy person. I hope he can get through this and prove every one here wrong.


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## jaymackz

qbanwayz said:


> If you want to see the fight for free go to torrentspy.com and download ufc64. All you need is a torrent app like bitcomet (bitcomet.com). and download the video.


OR..you can do the easy way by going to the MMA Videos & Downloads in this forum...and go to the UFC64 Video Thread....and download without all the hassle .... cheers! :laugh:


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## boce

how can a fight be fixed when the man who is asked to lose doesn't cooperate, then he loses anyway? ur saying that they possibly wanted to fix the fight but it was against franklin's will? then franklin would either go out and win if he could but he didnt. It definitely wasnt fixed.


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## qbanwayz

Sorry Im new to this i dint know you can do that but you guys that didnt see use his method because mines is kinda a hassle. Thanks for the info.


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## Adrnalnrsh

The torrent is the whole fight as the video in the vids section is just the main fight.


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## jaymackz

Adrnalnrsh said:


> The torrent is the whole fight as the video in the vids section is just the main fight.


Nah..clearly you were too lazy to even check.

http://www.mmaforum.com/mma-videos-downloads/3763-ufc-64-video-thread.html

there you go. all the fights. FULL fights. This is excluding the preliminary fights...


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## Adrnalnrsh

jaymackz said:


> Nah..clearly you were too lazy to even check.
> 
> http://www.mmaforum.com/mma-videos-downloads/3763-ufc-64-video-thread.html
> 
> there you go. all the fights. FULL fights. This is excluding the preliminary fights...


Oh nice, thats new to me, I havent checked that section since last night. So I am lazy!


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## jaymackz

you lazy bastard :laugh:


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## dumitavi

f-dog said:


> Franklin pummeled Loiseau for over 15 min with a bum hand. His performace last night had nothing to do with his hand. It was suspicious at best. A guy like Rich Franklin doesn't loose the way he did unless the winner is predetermined. Watch the fight a few more times. You'll notice some very pecuilar things.


Finnaly somebody that agrees with me. Thanks man. I feel the same way.


----------



## theboz19

BrutalKO said:


> WandyBJPenn...nice call on the fight. Silva's knees were vicious...only other person in the MW Division that can match him would be Franklin. Everybody else is chopped Liver. Our UFC fighters are scared..and they should be...Pride fighters will take all the Belts.


If they come to the UFC and win a belt aren't they a UFC fighter? If not, I could say that a UFC fighter went to pride and has held the belt for 5 years (Wanderlei Silva).


----------



## theboz19

ttcomerford said:


> Who else thinks that Chris Leben may have gained a little more credibility by seeing Silva rearrange Franklin's face in two minutes. Leben admitted that he didn't know who Silva was and he underestimated him. When Leben was beat he was up right afterwards cussing himself, not trying to put his nose back on. I would like to see a Swick v. Leben fight for a title shot.


Leben could be a champion but he has to learn some striking defense. Hopefully his fight with Silva taught him not to depend so heavily on his granite chin. Unfortunately, I saw his last fight and his head is still so easy to hit.


----------



## jaymackz

theboz19 said:


> Leben could be a champion but he has to learn some striking defense. Hopefully his fight with Silva taught him not to depend so heavily on his granite chin. Unfortunately, I saw his last fight and his head is still so easy to hit.


Nah Leben doesnt have what it takes to be a champion....he relies too much on his chin and his standup game.


----------



## theboz19

10e said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Nice to see all the pre and post-fight buzz concerning the Silva/Franklin fight. Congrats to Anderson Silva on a stunning win for the belt. I think both he and Rich Franklin are classy fighters who are really good for the sport.
> 
> While I did see Silva destroy Chris Leben, I didn't think that he would have his way with Franklin like he did. Franklin just looked wrong last night.
> 
> First off, he was sweating when he came into the Octagon, and he didn't look like his normally confident (but not arrogant) self. I don't think he was ready to fight, and I think he knew it too. Franklin is not the kind of guy who is afraid of anyone except when he knows he is not ready. Because he is a classy fighter, he gave Silva full credit for the win.
> 
> Beyond that, a number of telling areas reinforce my feeling. In the clench, he didn't look as active as I've seen in the past. At one point, there was a bit of space between him and Silva, and I thought for sure, Silva was going to be on the receiving end of some nasty body shots or knees, but Franklin just looked like he was struggling and flailing.
> 
> About 45 seconds prior to the end, Silva practically threw Franklin into the fence when Franklin tried to pull away from the clench. I've seen some tough guys try that on Franklin in the past, and he either spun away or pushed them away, but he often ended up in an advantageous position. This time, Franklin looked like he was just trying to keep his feet. I don't think Silva is physically stronger than he is, but he truly looked like it here.
> 
> I look forward to seeing more of Anderson Silva's fights, but I do believe Franklin will be back and next time they face each other, the fight will be much more competitive.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 10e


I think Rich made 2 mistakes. 1 was not knowing that Silva was that strong. Now that could be his teams fault for not having the proper scouting but it shouldn't have been a surprise. 2 was panicking when he realized he wasn't getting out of that clinch. Can't say I blame him though. I've fought guys (boxing) when they hit me with that first jab and I never saw it coming where I think "crap, this is gonna suck". 

Totally agree that if Rich get's a second shot at Silva it will be much more competitive.


----------



## jaymackz

^ and if the second time they fight which will probably be in a couple of months...what if Rich loses?....i wonder what people will think of him..with all this "UFC64: FIXED"? Anderson predetermined blahblahbalh all that is bs..it will show that Silvas the real thing... you win some you lose some..sorry boys...Rich cant remain Champ forever


----------



## The Berserker

I've been an MMA fan for a long time and I watched all fight venues from around the world, it's rediculous that some of you guys on here think that ufc fighters are the best pound for pound fighters in the world. Basically that's just american hype and lack of knowledge of true MMA. It's just like the hype with Chuck Liddell and Rampage Jackson, not a lot of UFC fans believed that Chuck would lose and basically that reason is american hype and lack of knowledge. Don't be a UFC fan, Be a MMA fan. Basically what I'm trying to point out is true MMA fans already knew Franklin was going to lose to Silva. People say that Anderson has no ground skills, that's a good one he has a black belt in jiu jitsu thru the Nog twins. You never get to see the jiu jitsu skills because he chooses to destroy people on his feet. Not even Jeremy Horn could submit him and keep him down, what makes you think Rich Franklin's ground skills is better, HAHAHA! Another point is 17-4 record he's never been knocked out, one lose came by decision, two by submission and one by DQ and that's not his full record. He's fought all over the world and started in Bare Knuckle Vale Tudo like Wanderlei Silva. Anderson Silva is no push over and he shouldn't be takin lightly. Their are some good UFC fighters but truly testing out an MMA warrior takes fighting outside the box. Chuck Liddell figured that out when he went to pride. No excuses with Franklin and Silva, the better man won and that makes all the sense in the world.


----------



## ElChimbonda

*what should rich have done?*

So for all you experts out there, whats the proper reaction to Anderson's clinch, I mean how do you get out of it and how do you avoid those knees?

on a side note: has anyone ever seen some ko replay footage where this black dude in a black kimono puts his opponents left arm in between his thighs and then grabs the dude's right arm and stretches him out into sorta of a crucifix pose; then proceeds to elbow the guy's temple six or seven times?
i think its sum really old ufc footage cuz that dude seemed pretty much out of it yet the ref didnt stop the fight until he was pretty much dead...

anyways i wanted to know that guy's name so i can look him up


----------



## thevarsmolta

ElChimbonda said:


> So for all you experts out there, whats the proper reaction to Anderson's clinch, I mean how do you get out of it and how do you avoid those knees?
> 
> on a side note: has anyone ever seen some ko replay footage where this black dude in a black kimono puts his opponents left arm in between his thighs and then grabs the dude's right arm and stretches him out into sorta of a crucifix pose; then proceeds to elbow the guy's temple six or seven times?
> i think its sum really old ufc footage cuz that dude seemed pretty much out of it yet the ref didnt stop the fight until he was pretty much dead...
> 
> anyways i wanted to know that guy's name so i can look him up


Although risky, Rich should have wrapped his arms around Anderson, putting them in a tight belly-to-belly position, and gone for a takedown, in my opinion. When I say risky, I mean that he could have exposed himself to some knees, but he clearly already had.

All in all, he should have gone for a takedown.


----------



## ALSKI12

*I Still Have Not Seen This Fight Can Someone Show It To Me ?*




5 Rounds said:


> PHP:
> 
> 
> You'll notice some very pecuilar things
> 
> I just seen the fight again in slow motion and I agree. It's very peculiar to see a nose bend like that... I wonder if that was his real nose or if that really was Franklin. Very peculiar indeed.


 Hey man is there anyway you can send me a link or tell me where i can view this fight ?


----------



## shenku68

ElChimbonda said:


> So for all you experts out there, whats the proper reaction to Anderson's clinch, I mean how do you get out of it and how do you avoid those knees?
> 
> on a side note: has anyone ever seen some ko replay footage where this black dude in a black kimono puts his opponents left arm in between his thighs and then grabs the dude's right arm and stretches him out into sorta of a crucifix pose; then proceeds to elbow the guy's temple six or seven times?
> i think its sum really old ufc footage cuz that dude seemed pretty much out of it yet the ref didnt stop the fight until he was pretty much dead...
> 
> anyways i wanted to know that guy's name so i can look him up


Gary "BIG DADDY" Goodridge


----------



## shenku68

thevarsmolta said:


> Although risky, Rich should have wrapped his arms around Anderson, putting them in a tight belly-to-belly position, and gone for a takedown, in my opinion. When I say risky, I mean that he could have exposed himself to some knees, but he clearly already had.
> 
> All in all, he should have gone for a takedown.


That would have been a good option but I would have pushed off and got some distance and try to get my head back on the swivel. Look for an opening for a takedown. Low kick him untils he lowers the hands to defend, close the distance with an overhand right. When he try to defend the punch, tie him up with a bodylock and slam him to the mat. GnP. Probably easier said than done. Franklin should have look at enough film of Silva not to stand with him too long. Get a few shots and go for the takedown. Franklin will not make the same mistake twice.


----------



## BigBadBruce

I still don't think the fight was fixed.
I know it's stunning that Franklin lost, I barely could go to sleep that night lol.
Franklin is one of my favourite fighters, probably top 10. The only reason I respect him so much is his work ethic and his drive. The man is so driven and works so hard to get where he was. I think it's complete BS to put him up against Silva, who has hands stronger and faster than bullets when he's been out for 7 months.
Alot of you probably fight. Have any of you been out of the ring for a really long time and than came back and fought? You probably felt completely out of sync. I mean fighting isn't just a brute sport, it's art. To win you need to flow and to flow you need to be in sync with your body. 
Overall, Silva won fair and square. The man is a beast of a fighter. Do I think he deserved a title shot? Hell no, especially since he beat Leben. I think the requirement to get a title shot is to beat the guy who lost to the title holder or beat the guy who was the former title holder. 
But I have to say this.. Franklin looked like ass. It looked like he gained some fat (his tone was terrible) and his face looked terrible.


----------



## BigBadBruce

I just finished watching the fight and wow.
Was that franklin or a stunt double? haha.
Wow, he looked so weak. Franklin is a strong, strong man. I've seen guys lay one lazy punch and miss and Franklin was there to grab them and toss his ass. Franklin seemed just really weak. That wasn't a very good fight.. at all. 
He seemed so out of energy and lazy. He put zero effort. It looked like he just sat there and took the beating like a little boy. He should have just given his belt up instead of wasting his time and going in there. If he wasn't going to fight, he shouldn't have been there.
I can totally see why some people think it's fixed but it's not. Franklin was just fighting like a guy who's never fought. It looked liked I could beat him in that fight and i'm 5'6 140lbs lol.


----------



## cabby

Ya it sure as hell surprised me. Never have seen Franklin get owned like that before. Could've been fixed:dunno: I mean look at he effort he put out, barely anything. If you were in a thai clinch wouldn't you grab the guy and go to the ground? I would instead of sit there and get pounded in the guts and head by knees


----------



## BigBadBruce

cabby said:


> Ya it sure as hell surprised me. Never have seen Franklin get owned like that before. Could've been fixed:dunno: I mean look at he effort he put out, barely anything. If you were in a thai clinch wouldn't you grab the guy and go to the ground? I would instead of sit there and get pounded in the guts and head by knees


So true.. he just stood there..


----------



## cabby

I felt bad for Franklin.....


----------



## BigBadBruce

cabby said:


> I felt bad for Franklin.....


Man, Leben put up a better fight than he did. 
It's some sort of fluke or something.. I don't know that fight was just plain ugly. I'm so glad I didn't buy it or I would have been pissed off and wanted my money back.


----------



## daman5

*whoped his ass.....*



BigBadBruce said:


> So true.. he just stood there..


No, HE GOT OWNED.... I knew Rich wouldn't stand a chance..... MUAHAHA i was hoping it to be done in 2 mins, but you know just under 3 is nice too!!! HAHAHA!!!

You all sit there thinking UFC ownes.... but pride creams UFC like not by just one > but times that by 2 (>>, maybe even 3 >>>).. you see... when you have better champs .. by definition you have to have better competition... it's that simple.

now i think Anderson silva could/wants (i hope) to win all the UFC titles... because then you all would see what fighting in that level does!! 10 minute first rounds!!! but that is neither here nore there.... 

So, Anderson Silva would stomp Chuck Liddell i give a (90% to 8%, with 2 for a DQ), and the only reson why Liddell has 8% is that Punchers CHANCE!!!! So please don't think that Chuck is amazing ... he's good yes but not amazing.

Now, Tim Sylvia wouldn't really stand a chance, hes got the height and he can punch but honestly, I see this really only 1 of 2 ways... 1, Sylvia makes this a standing fight, inwhich you see the devesting punches from Silva, and it finishes early in round number 2! OR the other side takes, inwhich the 2 men goto the ground and Anderson show Sylvia gets submitted within the first round..... now there is always a chance when you are dealing with a difference of 80ish pounds... so the odds would be alittle greater than Chuck but still not that good... (75% to 25%)

Now that leaves the Middle Wheight(ohhh wait no it doesn't He's got that belt ) eheh, now if they "choose to step up with this monster!!" the Welter Wieghts are only 15ish Pounds away, (because as we saw Anderson Whiping the Heavy Weights which is 2 classes above him!!) they would have a challenge. BUT! Your current Welter weight class is about to change hands, I know this because it's about to happen  . George "Rush" St. Pierre, is a tank... and I dont want to change subjects but with the odds that i have given to St. Pierre and the odds that Silva's are much closer to eachother..

Now, how do you stop a Muay Thai and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, (and if anyone knows ANYTHING about this game Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is an INSANE fighting style) it's intense now with St. Peirre he has Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and he has pure POWER... He might be the only fighter to stop the domination of Anderson Silva.... But for any of this to happen UFC must open up their weight classes... its the only way to start bringing in good fighters... so just to say .. i cant weight for the next ufc


----------



## IIDX

I just watched the fight again and it is unsettling seeing Rich Franklin walking towards the octagon...he looks like he's on death row and just does not want to be there.

He does not look confident at all, his face looks like it's sagging, it's like he's dragging his feet up there. Then you see his wife look like she's about to burst into tears before the fight...there must have been something up, if your husband was 22 wins 1 loss, you probably don't look like you're about to cry before every fight unless he told you he was probably going to get smashed before hand.

This shows that rich either knew he was underprepared, or that silva had gotten to him mentally.
Either way, to see franklin tossed around like that in the clinch shows something must have been up, there is no way Silva is that much stronger than him, franklin is a strong man and to just get tossed around like it's nothing makes me wonder.

Still, it has deffinitley made things more interesting, it should be cool to see what happens next in the UFC.


----------



## daman5

IIDX said:


> I just watched the fight again and it is unsettling seeing Rich Franklin walking towards the octagon...he looks like he's on death row and just does not want to be there.
> 
> He does not look confident at all, his face looks like it's sagging, it's like he's dragging his feet up there. Then you see his wife look like she's about to burst into tears before the fight...there must have been something up, if your husband was 22 wins 1 loss, you probably don't look like you're about to cry before every fight unless he told you he was probably going to get smashed before hand.
> 
> This shows that rich either knew he was underprepared, or that silva had gotten to him mentally.
> Either way, to see franklin tossed around like that in the clinch shows something must have been up, there is no way Silva is that much stronger than him, franklin is a strong man and to just get tossed around like it's nothing makes me wonder.
> 
> Still, it has deffinitley made things more interesting, it should be cool to see what happens next in the UFC.




no it wont Silva will knock him out again


----------



## whale hunter

what the hell just happened


----------



## BrutalKO

*Anderson Silva would stomp Chuck Liddell?*

...Ummm...Silva /Middleweight....Liddell /Light Heavyweight...just in case you didn't know. On Pride FC 2003 Final Elimination Liddell fought Alistair Overeem.
Chuck was taking some hard knees and punches, he even had a cut on his head. Chuck looked rocked. Then it happened...Liddell's massive overhand right clocked Overeem square on the forehead sending his eyes in every direction..lol, then Chuck went in for the kill...nice KO. Even if Silva was a LH...Chuck would still bust him up.

P.S. quote from Rogan at UFC 62 " That knockout power is so hard for fighters to deal with, once that guy connects on you it's only a matter of time"


----------



## Damone

whale hunter said:


> what the hell just happened


Anderson Silva happened.


----------



## izzynomad

People keep talking about the power of franklin and that he is a big and strong middle weight but if you see the fight silva looks to be in great shape and he is taller than franklin. In truth looking at his weight/reach silva is like a perfectly toned lidel. and when you say that silva just knocked rich out look at the amount of damaged to the body i counted 23 knees to the body from the clench. Counting the fact that anderson had the longer legs and better position he was able to deliver while out of the effective range of franklins knees. It is my observation by the look of the fight anderson broke most of franklins lower ribs, caused intenal bleeding and injured his liver and which point all of franklins speed and power was then gone and the KO was then there to take. just look at the Hughes v. Penn fight B.J. was killing until he hurt his ribs, once you lose core strength you lose the fight.


----------



## slayer

i want to see the tapes of the 4 fights silva lost. and how he lost them. i wanted to see franklin whoop him, especialy for that dumb dance after that last fight.


----------



## daman5

slayer said:


> i want to see the tapes of the 4 fights silva lost. and how he lost them. i wanted to see franklin whoop him, especialy for that dumb dance after that last fight.


anderson would most likely take all the belts if ufc would the fighters.. but they aren't grade a fighters ... but i say MMA SHOULD BE AN OLYMPIC SPORT!!


----------



## Frankie Fights

*Poor Rich*

What happened:dunno: Did that big bad man come over from PRIDE and take your belt:cheeky4: you were right at the end of the fight when you said you will train and work yourself back up the ladder because lord knows you dont want to face SILVA again anytime soon now maybe people will put down that UFC kool aide that Dana's been serving and see the REAL DEAL next week and really see what PRIDE FIGHTING is about


----------



## daman5

Frankie Fights said:


> What happened:dunno: Did that big bad man come over from PRIDE and take your belt:cheeky4: you were right at the end of the fight when you said you will train and work yourself back up the ladder because lord knows you dont want to face SILVA again anytime soon now maybe people will put down that UFC kool aide that Dana's been serving and see the REAL DEAL next week and really see what PRIDE FIGHTING is about



ya im glad to see that pride is coming to america .. hehe we get a network up here in cananda called the fight network .. and its awesome to watch .. every tuesday .. a pride fight is shown!! hehe and a lot of other crazy fighting..


but pride has 10 min first rounds!!! and then 2 5's.. so its easily more intense .. you usually see a fighter go in the first round ...


----------



## RevnR6

Ok, I hope everyone doesn't think I am an asshole but I want to clarify something for some of the members on here.

Silva had Franklin in the THAI CLINCH..not the TAI or TIE. It is just one of my little Peeves that MMA fans spell it wrong. It is called that because it came from Muay Thai (aka Thai Boxing) and has nothing to do with any sort of tie. Ok thanks.. sorry for the interruption.


----------



## thevarsmolta

shenku68 said:


> That would have been a good option but I would have pushed off and got some distance and try to get my head back on the swivel. Look for an opening for a takedown. Low kick him untils he lowers the hands to defend, close the distance with an overhand right. When he try to defend the punch, tie him up with a bodylock and slam him to the mat. GnP. Probably easier said than done. Franklin should have look at enough film of Silva not to stand with him too long. Get a few shots and go for the takedown. Franklin will not make the same mistake twice.


Good options, but back to your first one: pushing off, you could see Franklin was trying to, but couldn't get his head out. Some of the knees to the body had already taken their toll, too. 

If he would have taken him down via belly-to-belly, he may have been able to recover a bit, then go to the ground and pound.


----------



## BigBadBruce

daman5 said:


> No, HE GOT OWNED.... I knew Rich wouldn't stand a chance..... MUAHAHA i was hoping it to be done in 2 mins, but you know just under 3 is nice too!!! HAHAHA!!!
> 
> You all sit there thinking UFC ownes.... but pride creams UFC like not by just one > but times that by 2 (>>, maybe even 3 >>>).. you see... when you have better champs .. by definition you have to have better competition... it's that simple.
> 
> now i think Anderson silva could/wants (i hope) to win all the UFC titles... because then you all would see what fighting in that level does!! 10 minute first rounds!!! but that is neither here nore there....
> 
> So, Anderson Silva would stomp Chuck Liddell i give a (90% to 8%, with 2 for a DQ), and the only reson why Liddell has 8% is that Punchers CHANCE!!!! So please don't think that Chuck is amazing ... he's good yes but not amazing.
> 
> Now, Tim Sylvia wouldn't really stand a chance, hes got the height and he can punch but honestly, I see this really only 1 of 2 ways... 1, Sylvia makes this a standing fight, inwhich you see the devesting punches from Silva, and it finishes early in round number 2! OR the other side takes, inwhich the 2 men goto the ground and Anderson show Sylvia gets submitted within the first round..... now there is always a chance when you are dealing with a difference of 80ish pounds... so the odds would be alittle greater than Chuck but still not that good... (75% to 25%)
> 
> Now that leaves the Middle Wheight(ohhh wait no it doesn't He's got that belt ) eheh, now if they "choose to step up with this monster!!" the Welter Wieghts are only 15ish Pounds away, (because as we saw Anderson Whiping the Heavy Weights which is 2 classes above him!!) they would have a challenge. BUT! Your current Welter weight class is about to change hands, I know this because it's about to happen  . George "Rush" St. Pierre, is a tank... and I dont want to change subjects but with the odds that i have given to St. Pierre and the odds that Silva's are much closer to eachother..
> 
> Now, how do you stop a Muay Thai and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, (and if anyone knows ANYTHING about this game Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is an INSANE fighting style) it's intense now with St. Peirre he has Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and he has pure POWER... He might be the only fighter to stop the domination of Anderson Silva.... But for any of this to happen UFC must open up their weight classes... its the only way to start bringing in good fighters... so just to say .. i cant weight for the next ufc


Easy on the Anderson Silva praise. He's an excellent fighter of course, but like he said himself "every man has his weaknesses". Anderson Silva, like any fighter, can be beaten. Will Franklin beat him? I think so. Can anyone else beat him? Of course, it's just how you approach the fight. He's only fought 2 people so far. 
So easy on the praising, he's a human being like anyone else in the UFC.


----------



## BigBadBruce

Frankie Fights said:


> What happened:dunno: Did that big bad man come over from PRIDE and take your belt:cheeky4: you were right at the end of the fight when you said you will train and work yourself back up the ladder because lord knows you dont want to face SILVA again anytime soon now maybe people will put down that UFC kool aide that Dana's been serving and see the REAL DEAL next week and really see what PRIDE FIGHTING is about


 I would like to see a PRIDE vs UFC kind of thing so everyone would just shut up about "Oh my god, PRIDE is so much better. UFC is a joke" blah blah blah.. 
I haven't been on the forums that long, but all I see is "Pride this" and "Pride that". Alright, we get it, you like pride alot.
I'm not about to make excuses for anyone, but it's kind of hard to win a fight when you've been out for 7 months with a broken hand.


----------



## daman5

BigBadBruce said:


> I would like to see a PRIDE vs UFC kind of thing so everyone would just shut up about "Oh my god, PRIDE is so much better. UFC is a joke" blah blah blah..
> I haven't been on the forums that long, but all I see is "Pride this" and "Pride that". Alright, we get it, you like pride alot.
> I'm not about to make excuses for anyone, but it's kind of hard to win a fight when you've been out for 7 months with a broken hand.



i love that excuess ... his broken hand.. THEN HE SHOULDN'T HAVE FOUGHT!!! thats not an excuess. the fighters intrest is always put first.. if he didn't want to find .. he shouldn't have

lo. look at the facts.. Rich 20 and 1 ... chris 13 and 0 .. anderson silva is now 2 and 0 and hasn't even fought a full round cuz he knocks them out...


Now Anderson has fought in Vale Tudo fights.. where its bare knuckle fighting with headbut are allowed... so he can take a punch... Theres no doubt in my mind that Anderson Silva would win all the belts in UFC.. no one now currently in the UFC is on his Level.. the only one might be George St. Pierre


----------



## Bob Sacramento

I think it was more a question of training. Franklin himself says he does not really very training for any one fight, and I think he made the mistake of expecting punches from Anderson Silva. Franklin probably assumed he would be the stronger of the two going in, and any clinch work would be his to control. I'm sure there might have been a little degredation from his time off, as with Tito against Griffen, but he was dominated in that fight, no excuse

And there was no rigging....


----------



## x X CLoud X x

The Berserker said:


> I've been an MMA fan for a long time and I watched all fight venues from around the world, it's rediculous that some of you guys on here think that ufc fighters are the best pound for pound fighters in the world. Basically that's just american hype and lack of knowledge of true MMA. It's just like the hype with Chuck Liddell and Rampage Jackson, not a lot of UFC fans believed that Chuck would lose and basically that reason is american hype and lack of knowledge. Don't be a UFC fan, Be a MMA fan. Basically what I'm trying to point out is true MMA fans already knew Franklin was going to lose to Silva. People say that Anderson has no ground skills, that's a good one he has a black belt in jiu jitsu thru the Nog twins. You never get to see the jiu jitsu skills because he chooses to destroy people on his feet. Not even Jeremy Horn could submit him and keep him down, what makes you think Rich Franklin's ground skills is better, HAHAHA! Another point is 17-4 record he's never been knocked out, one lose came by decision, two by submission and one by DQ and that's not his full record. He's fought all over the world and started in Bare Knuckle Vale Tudo like Wanderlei Silva. Anderson Silva is no push over and he shouldn't be takin lightly. Their are some good UFC fighters but truly testing out an MMA warrior takes fighting outside the box. Chuck Liddell figured that out when he went to pride. No excuses with Franklin and Silva, the better man won and that makes all the sense in the world.


That is some words of wisdom right there ^ best and most non 1 sided opinion i read so far, and i read all 20something pages, so to get the feel of how many people felt that way, and its just insane, for any of you to think its Fixed or UFC rules all or he wasnt 100%, is pure BS... Rich knew what he was getting himself into, and he accepted, plain and simple.. 

if say another 3months went by and he fought Silva, Rich gets beat and then everyone and there mothers would be saying, he hasnt fought in 10months, see my point, when is it that your going to draw the correct amount of time he fights.. regardless anything after the 7months would be even more time away from the ring, so the sooner the better..

The reason why Rich was being tossed around like a Rag-Doll was, do you know how it feels to be put into a Clinch much less from a former Chute Boxe member... LoL, alright let me explain this for those of us who has never been put into a muy thai clinch, the amount of energy spent on breaking out of it is exhausting, much less taking 1 knee to the midsection/ribs = Breathtaking, it knocks the wind outta you and hurts like a Mother Fawking Bltch and Silva connected many 20+ knees, (just picture getting hit by logs) so by that time, Rich was all gassed, his midsection in excruciating pain, all he can think about is protecting his mid section, you would see even a few times, towards the end, he would drop his guard lower just so that he could protect taking another....

but i give him much respect for taking that many and not passing out, or giving up.. i know after 1 of Silva knees, we would all be laying on the floor, passed out...

Rich def. knows how to break out of clinches and he's a way smarter/better fighter then all of us, dont you think he thought of all these ideas we thought of, to break out, come on the guy does this for a living, any beginner of Muy Thai is taught various ways of breaking out of it, and im sure Rich knows of more ways then the people who teach us.

thats like telling Michael Jordan how to play ball... 

but Silva caught him with a perfect clinch (hands locked behind the crown, forearms locked beside the neck) and the rest, your just in for a beating.... Rich didnt react fast enough to break lose, and like Rich mentioned, he just underestimated Silva (deadly,big mistake) and probably thought he could muscle his way out of this skinny looking black guy (i know hes spanish)

but honestly Rich was asking for the beatdown, if you watch the video, Silva tried to put Rich in a clinch 3x, only the last one connected perfectly, that shouldve been a HELLO i better do something since the this guy already attempted it twice on me and almost caught me the 2nd time...

ps- open your eyes up to MMA not just UFC, you will only learn so much from 1 sided things.. if you are a true fan of the sport, you branch out and learn as many as possible..


----------



## Badboy81

Well whatever was going through Richs mind at the time its clear he did not make the best choices. I think we all can agree though that rich was definatly not himself. You could tell that from the moment he walked out that something was off. Whatever it was we may never know but there will be a rematch and it should be way more compeditive. ( assuming rich comes prepared this time)


----------



## ttcomerford

*Leben*



jaymackz said:


> Nah Leben doesnt have what it takes to be a champion....he relies too much on his chin and his standup game.



I agree that Leben relies to much on his chin...I thought that he was starting to learn when submitted Edwin DeWees...then the Silva fight comes and he's back to brawling. I disagree though that he can't be a champion, he is still young and is one of the best strikers in the game.


----------



## qbanwayz

Guys I found this article in sherdog. Very interesting and they bring up some good points. Give me your thought. 


October 16, 2006
by Mike Sloan ([email protected])

Looking closely at this past weekend’s UFC inside the Mandalay Bay Events Center, quite a few thoughts popped into my mind. 

Not only were a few questions answered, but also some of the results opened up an entirely new packet of queries. And it might take months before these new ones they are truly answered — but in all actuality, that is a good thing. 

Already there are people jumping off the Rich Franklin (Pictures) bandwagon, leaping onto the Anderson Silva bandwagon and also ripping into Dana White’s brainchild, his reality series The Ultimate Fighter. 

For starters, those of you with even the slightest bit of intelligence should calm your nerves and take a few breaths before jumping to conclusions. There are hundreds of “told you so blah blah blahs” running rampant on our Sherdog forums alone, and that’s not even including the various other mixed martial arts forums and chat rooms on the Net. 

Fans and media alike are always a bit too quick to jump the gun, either discounting fighters after losses or hyping them after victories. And it appears to me that most of these individuals simply complain, vent or praise just to do it, without having any sort of validity behind their statements. 

For example, there have been quite a few posts over the weekend where some people have called Franklin a fraud, saying he was a terrible fighter to begin with and that Silva exposed him. Others have said already that Kenny Florian (Pictures) was just an over-hyped reality star that doesn’t even belong inside the Octagon. And others have complained since Day One that the Zuffa/Spike TV reality show, which has essentially brought the UFC as close to mainstream as it probably ever will come, is a complete waste of time; a show that will ruin the sport of MMA as a whole. 

Granted, some of these statements have validity as long as they convey a message with some sort of intelligence. For me, personally, I enjoy a chance to see both sides of the fence in almost every debate and after watching UFC 64 I can understand one person’s point of view over another. 

So, to keep it somewhat entertaining, I’ll elaborate a bit deeper this time around, and give my two cents on Saturday’s UFC and its aftermath. 

There is a new sheriff in town and he speaks Portuguese 

Most fans and media alike agreed that while Anderson Silva was spectacular in blitzing Chris Leben (Pictures) a few months back, he would be trumped by then middleweight champion Rich Franklin (Pictures). People who really follow the sport agreed that the fight would be decided by whoever made the first mistake, but still most favored Franklin to successfully defend his title. As it turned out, Franklin utilized an improper game plan to attack Silva and it cost him his UFC 185-pound title. 

Franklin had been on a roll, ripping apart every fighter thrown in front of him. He was a coach on The Ultimate Fighter 2, starred in a Xyience commercial and because of both his good looks and highlight reel knockouts, eventually became a fan favorite. But like all good things that come to an end, his title reign lasted only two fights and on Saturday night, he suffered the first loss of his UFC career, the second ever blemish in his overall MMA record.


----------



## dannov

*Wow*

I can't believe people are actually saying this is fixed. Do you know why he looked shaken up coming into the ring? It's simple -- he knew that Silva was going to destroy him. If I told you that at 2pm tomorrow I was going to smack you in the back of the head with a bat, then I'm sure you'd be a bit shaken up. It was basically a death sentence for Franklin, and I can't believe that anybody outside of the UFC commentator booth actually thinks that UFC has better fighters than PRIDE. I never took Franklin seriously as a champion, especially after seeing how poorly he did against Shamrock (Shamrock screwed himself out of that match) when compared with Tito's matches against him. Until visiting this forum, I honestly thought it was common knowledge that PRIDE had the better fighters, but apparently people drink UFC's promotional kool-aid. 

Let me refer you to Liddell's match vs Rampage...and then take a look at what Wanderlei did to Rampage on two separate occasions...then you tell me who the better champion is. Hughes is about the only one that I'd say is quite possibly the best of the two promotions. 

Also, someone mentioned Sakuraba rocking PRIDE but getting rocked outside of it -- no. Sakuraba has gotten badly rocked on three separate occasions by Wanderlei...Sakuraba's rep is primarily being the only Japanese guy to beat the Gracies, thus the "Gracie Hunter" nickname. Nobody said he's an amazing fighter, though he has improved a good deal over the years.


----------



## No_Mercy

*UFC: David vs Goliath...*

As a fan of the original UFCs I pretty much remember all the classic match ups. You're looking for UFC 8: David Vs Goliath where they had no weight class. Based from my memory they pitted the following fighters:
Keith Hackney (Kenpo Karate) vs E. Yarlboro (Sumo Wrestling)
Don "The Predator" Frye (Golden Box champ) vs David "Tank" Abbott (Pit fighting)
Dan "The Beast" Severn (wrestler) vs David "Mad Dog" Macia. (kick boxer)
- triple suplex 
Gary Goodridge vs wrestler (This is the fight you're looking for.) That was one of the most brutal knockouts in history of MMA. It's funny I remember all the rest, but not the one wrestler who got knocked out. Maybe "Pitbull" Montoya? But I know it was Gary for sure. 

That's why they call him Big Daddy Goodridge. 

No mercy indeed...

PS: You don't get outta the clinch. You grab the other guy and exchange blows. That's what Muay Thai is all about. Why do you think majority of Muay Thai fighters are so willing to exchange blows; Anderson, Loisseau, GSP, and especially Vanderlei. Unless you're quick enough to press your left arm onto his left arm joint and conjoin it with your right hand and maneuver away. You'll avoid the knee, but then you may be susceptible to a quick elbow strike. 

Hope this answers your questions.



ElChimbonda said:


> So for all you experts out there, whats the proper reaction to Anderson's clinch, I mean how do you get out of it and how do you avoid those knees?
> 
> on a side note: has anyone ever seen some ko replay footage where this black dude in a black kimono puts his opponents left arm in between his thighs and then grabs the dude's right arm and stretches him out into sorta of a crucifix pose; then proceeds to elbow the guy's temple six or seven times?
> i think its sum really old ufc footage cuz that dude seemed pretty much out of it yet the ref didnt stop the fight until he was pretty much dead...
> 
> anyways i wanted to know that guy's name so i can look him up


----------



## No_Mercy

*UFC: David vs Goliath...*

As a fan of the original UFCs I pretty much remember all the classic match ups. You're looking for UFC 8: David Vs Goliath where they had no weight class. Based from my memory they pitted the following fighters:
Keith Hackney (Kenpo Karate) vs E. Yarlboro (Sumo Wrestling)
Don "The Predator" Frye (Golden Box champ) vs David "Tank" Abbott (Pit fighting)
Dan "The Beast" Severn (wrestler) vs David "Mad Dog" Macia. (kick boxer)
- triple suplex 
Gary Goodridge vs wrestler (This is the fight you're looking for.) That was one of the most brutal knockouts in history of MMA. It's funny I remember all the rest, but not the one wrestler who got knocked out. Maybe "Pitbull" Montoya? But I know it was Gary for sure. 

That's why they call him Big Daddy Goodridge. 

No mercy indeed...

PS: You don't get outta the clinch. You grab the other guy and exchange blows. That's what Muay Thai is all about. Why do you think majority of Muay Thai fighters are so willing to exchange blows; Anderson, Loisseau, GSP, and especially Vanderlei. Unless you're quick enough to press your left arm onto his left arm joint and conjoin it with your right hand and maneuver away. You'll avoid the knee, but then you may be susceptible to a quick elbow strike. 

Hope this answers your questions.



ElChimbonda said:


> So for all you experts out there, whats the proper reaction to Anderson's clinch, I mean how do you get out of it and how do you avoid those knees?
> 
> on a side note: has anyone ever seen some ko replay footage where this black dude in a black kimono puts his opponents left arm in between his thighs and then grabs the dude's right arm and stretches him out into sorta of a crucifix pose; then proceeds to elbow the guy's temple six or seven times?
> i think its sum really old ufc footage cuz that dude seemed pretty much out of it yet the ref didnt stop the fight until he was pretty much dead...
> 
> anyways i wanted to know that guy's name so i can look him up


----------



## randyspankstito

theboz19 said:


> Leben could be a champion but he has to learn some striking defense. Hopefully his fight with Silva taught him not to depend so heavily on his granite chin. Unfortunately, I saw his last fight and his head is still so easy to hit.



Leben is not a champ, he's a bleeder with no talent.


----------



## matt1970

fight was fixed.watch the tape .this guy is very beatable for the elites.u guys understand the ground and pound.throw that knee from the clinch and your going down to the mat easy takedown


----------



## hero34

randyspankstito said:


> Leben is not a champ, he's a bleeder with no talent.


Quoted for agreement. Leben suck big time... also a cry baby.


----------



## *IceMAn*

The only thing fixed is the people minds on the devastating lost that Rich had coming. I figured that would happen just b/c a fighter who doesn't exclusively fights in pride comes along and beats a ufc champion all of a sudden pride is better than ufc i admit Fedor is the sh!t he could beat sylvia with one arm tied behind his back but don't go steppen on all the fighters. Pride's only advantage is the diversity of the fighters Ufc needs more out of the country competition. And with Rampage as I recall Vitor destroyed wandelei then chuck destroyed vitor, tito beat wanderlei and chuck destroyed tito, Chuck is the real deal you wouldn't be bashing him if he fought in pride. wanderlei should thank chuck for not fighting in pride.


----------



## BigBadBruce

matt1970 said:


> fight was fixed.watch the tape .this guy is very beatable for the elites.u guys understand the ground and pound.throw that knee from the clinch and your going down to the mat easy takedown


I can see why you would think it was fixed but it wasn't. Franklin hasn't fought in 7 months. What do you expect? During those month's he wasn't training because he had his hand healing. 
I think any fighter would fight like complete crap if they hadn't fought for so long. It was expected and that's how the cookie crumbles. He'll work his way and let's hope he doesn't run into another injury before t ofight silva.. assuming silva can mantain his title.
I would like to see Silva face Loiseau (because they brag about his striking and his super sharp deadly elbows so much) or Swick who beat Loiseau and seems to be undefeated in the UFC. And they said the winner from ultimate fighter 4 gets a title shot. I don't think anyone there could even put up a chance. Anyone else have an input on who Silva should fight next? I just don't feel like anyone is ready enough in the middleweight division to beat Silva.


----------



## rab24

i'm in afghanistan so i haven't looked at any websites for the past few days. just caught ufc 64 on delay...wow...knew silva had a good shot at winning but i wasn't expecting ANYTHING like that.

i've never seen franklin look so helpless...watching replays you almost feel bad for him. he looked like he had never seen the muay thai clinch before. also...he looked much more subdued before the fight than he normally does...just didn't look ready to fight. 

as far as who's next for silva...swick is the first name that comes to mind.

i'm sure this has already been said a thousand times in this forum already...but cut me some slack.


----------



## TLB

BigBadBruce said:


> I can see why you would think it was fixed but it wasn't. Franklin hasn't fought in 7 months. What do you expect? During those month's he wasn't training because he had his hand healing.
> I think any fighter would fight like complete crap if they hadn't fought for so long. It was expected and that's how the cookie crumbles. He'll work his way and let's hope he doesn't run into another injury before t ofight silva.. assuming silva can mantain his title.
> I would like to see Silva face Loiseau (because they brag about his striking and his super sharp deadly elbows so much) or Swick who beat Loiseau and seems to be undefeated in the UFC. And they said the winner from ultimate fighter 4 gets a title shot. I don't think anyone there could even put up a chance. Anyone else have an input on who Silva should fight next? I just don't feel like anyone is ready enough in the middleweight division to beat Silva.


That is exactly what I have been saying, the guy hasn’t fought in 7 months and probably has only been able to train the past 2 months because he has been waiting for his hand to heal. Having said that I expected him to pretty much not look like the champion Rich Franklin we have always seen in the UFC but I definitely didn’t expect for him to get completely dominated in the clinch. As far as who I think should fight Silva next, Swick has earned a shot.


----------



## x X CLoud X x

Remember when Belfort beat Wanderlei, that was years ago, when Wanderlei was nowhere near the skill level he is at now. also remember, Randy Corture, beat Vitor more recently then the Belfort vs Wanderlei match.. Chuck whipped Randys ass, although i think if he didnt slip and fall, it could have been a different fight.. but regardless he lost, so, Chuck got his ass beat by Jackson, which in turn Silva destoyed 2... Regardless Wanderlei is still one of the best 205lb Fighters in the WORLD, that is why he has been champ for 5 YRS. although i do respect and admire Chuck, and hope he beats the **** outta TITO


----------



## qbanwayz

*IceMAn* said:


> The only thing fixed is the people minds on the devastating lost that Rich had coming. I figured that would happen just b/c a fighter who doesn't exclusively fights in pride comes along and beats a ufc champion all of a sudden pride is better than ufc i admit Fedor is the sh!t he could beat sylvia with one arm tied behind his back but don't go steppen on all the fighters. Pride's only advantage is the diversity of the fighters Ufc needs more out of the country competition. And with Rampage as I recall Vitor destroyed wandelei then chuck destroyed vitor, tito beat wanderlei and chuck destroyed tito, Chuck is the real deal you wouldn't be bashing him if he fought in pride. wanderlei should thank chuck for not fighting in pride.


Well put, I keep hearing this pride vs ufc. They both have thier goods and thier bads (thier the top MMA fighting organization in the world). People keep bringing up some stupid fights like chuck and rampage. That was before Chuck became champ, randy beat him but look at him now. Not only did he take the belt from randy but he knocked randy out twice (only man to KO Randy Couture) You cant judge a fighter from a fight that happen years ago. Wanderlei got beat by both Tito and Vitor ( and vitor destroyed him in under 2 mins) a few years ago but it does not mean that he cannot beat them now. He is a much better fighter then he was back then.Anderson Silva was never a top contender in pride but he is an exellent fighter and he improved majorly and it shows but please stop jumping on the banwagon. He has only fought twice. Let him hold the belt for a while before praising him like he is a god. We have UFC fighters that are having success over thier so please stop the UFC vs Pride because you guys keep bring pointless arguements. 

By the way a champ like Franklin will come back. This is not the first time a great fighter was beat by an underdog. It happens unfurtunatly but i will give you examples; Cro Cop vs Randleman - Vitor vs Silva, Huges vs penn. These are champs that were destroyed by the underdog and they came back. Franlkin is that type of champ. So if you think because he got beat the way he did and his career is over you are making a mistake.


----------



## 5 Rounds

*World Fighting Championship every 4 years - UFC vs Pride*

What they should do is have a World Fighting Championship combining the best of UFC and Pride fighters once every 4 years or something. Practically every sport in the world does this.


----------



## daman5

5 Rounds said:


> What they should do is have a World Fighting Championship combining the best of UFC and Pride fighters once every 4 years or something. Practically every sport in the world does this.


I should be an olympic sport .... and they should do what soccer does


and Rich Franklin isn't that good when it comes to outside of America!


----------



## 5 Rounds

I'm not sure of an Olympic event because the marketing would suck. It would have to be a stand alone event. It also would have to be a bit different from the UFC and Pride in terms of the fighting arena. Maybe no boarders at all.. I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud here. Still, it would be pretty epic if something like that was put together at some remote location with all the best fighters being guests of honor. Something like that Bruce lee movie Enter the Dragon, but having it live on PPV.

Would be mesmerizing to watch but it will never happen.


----------



## dannov

5 Rounds said:


> I'm not sure of an Olympic event because the marketing would suck. It would have to be a stand alone event. It also would have to be a bit different from the UFC and Pride in terms of the fighting arena. Maybe no boarders at all.. I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud here. Still, it would be pretty epic if something like that was put together at some remote location with all the best fighters being guests of honor. Something like that Bruce lee movie Enter the Dragon, but having it live on PPV.
> 
> Would be mesmerizing to watch but it will never happen.


Or, like Blood Sport. 

On another note, a lot of UFC fighters that you see migrate to PRIDE is because it's like UFC is where they got their start with PRIDE being the final destination. PRIDE pays its fighters far more money than what UFC'ers make, and the level of respect in Japan for fighters is amazing as well. Granted, PRIDE is having issues now due to losing their TV sponsorship, but PRIDE has always attracted the best from Rickson Gracie to Fedor to Wanderlei to CroCop and so forth. Not to mention, PRIDE attracts fighters worldwide, whereas UFC is restricted to the Western Hemisphere for the most part.


----------



## qbanwayz

dannov said:


> Or, like Blood Sport.
> 
> On another note, a lot of UFC fighters that you see migrate to PRIDE is because it's like UFC is where they got their start with PRIDE being the final destination. PRIDE pays its fighters far more money than what UFC'ers make, and the level of respect in Japan for fighters is amazing as well. Granted, PRIDE is having issues now due to losing their TV sponsorship, but PRIDE has always attracted the best from Rickson Gracie to Fedor to Wanderlei to CroCop and so forth. Not to mention, PRIDE attracts fighters worldwide, whereas UFC is restricted to the Western Hemisphere for the most part.


"UFC is where they got their start with PRIDE being the final destination" 

That has been pobally the worst comment Ive heard so far. Like I said earlier they have there goods and bads but to say something like that makes me laugh. Vitor bilfort is not in pride because he is moving up, Viltor bilfort is there because he loss his belt and loss another fight after that. UFC no longer offered him fights. Mark Coleman is in Pride for the same reason, he lost several fights and UFC stop offering him fights. When Coleman went to pride he won the Heavyweight Grand Prix tournament. Kevin Randlman also lost to many fight and UFC also didnt want him back so he went to pride. Phil Boronni also lost to many fights and the UFC let him go (right after the fight with that new york kid from UFC "the comeback") Phil is now having great sucess in Pride. Guy Mezger also went to pride right after loosing to Tito ortiz, Shamrock went to Pride after loosing to Ortiz ( I think shamrock actually fought once in pride before Ortiz but im not sure). Don Frye went to pride after loosing to Mark Coleman in UFC.Marvin Eastman has not one a single UFC fight he is 0-3 yet he is going to be fighting in pride on Oct 27. Robie Lawler, Josh Barnett, Tank Abbott??? All lost back to back in UFC so they were offered no more fights. Wow they sure use pride for thier final destination, when there carrer is sinking down the drain I guess any fighter would, and some of these fighters are having sucess in Pride. Man I can keep going and going. So please refraing from saying idiotic comments about UFC, and if you say something bad about pride I can reverse it on you. Again I have to say this pride vs UFC is nonsence and you guys need to respect both.


----------



## 5 Rounds

Maybe Dana should bring those fighters back because competition in the UFC is running a bit thin at the moment... Tito vs. Chuck, Tito beats Shamrock 3 times, and then beats a reality show fighter, now he's the #1 contender again. So what does Dana do, try to go to Pride and bring back the Axe Murderer. That falls through so, hey, lets do Tito vs. Chuck 2. After that fight who do you think Chuck is going to fight next?? I'll tell you.. Tito vs. Chuck 3!!

Anderson Silva beats a reality show fighter, NOW he's the #1 contender all of a sudden, then blows through the once thought unbeatable Franklin.

Who the hell are we going to put up against Matt, hey lets hunt down Bj. 

The UFC has talent but not a pool of talented for each weight class.


----------



## matt1970

right now i believe the ufc is very very big but the fighters are not at that level yet 2years and the ufc because of money will be the real deal.


----------



## attention

5 Rounds said:


> Maybe Dana should bring those fighters back because competition in the UFC is running a bit thin at the moment... Tito vs. Chuck, Tito beats Shamrock 3 times, and then beats a reality show fighter, now he's the #1 contender again. So what does Dana do, try to go to Pride and bring back the Axe Murderer. That falls through so, hey, lets do Tito vs. Chuck 2. After that fight who do you think Chuck is going to fight next?? I'll tell you.. Tito vs. Chuck 3!!
> 
> Anderson Silva beats a reality show fighter, NOW he's the #1 contender all of a sudden, then blows through the once thought unbeatable Franklin.
> 
> Who the hell are we going to put up against Matt, hey lets hunt down Bj.
> 
> The UFC has talent but not a pool of talented for each weight class.


I was a huge UFC fan from the start... but now its gone the way of the old WWF... which is now the WWE... 

The whole shamrock vs tito bull, now tito vs chunk...err chuck ??? cmon, get some *real* talent back...

Im sick of these paper champions... basically everyone of them are poster boys for XYIENCE. 

It was a HUGE upset when silva beat franklin, every one was in disbelief...
this was supposed to be franklin stepping stone to show hes 'back in business'...
I was SOOO happy when he went down

A wise mma fighter said "you are only as good as your last fight"...
He knew that your record means squat once you step into that ring.

These "win records are merely being used as money draws... and thats exactly what these UFC fighter are... manufactured money draws... you might as well call them the Backstreet boys of the MMA world

The dont have a huge pool of talent because they dont want to lose their money makers.

You know that they wont let Silva keep this title for long, the machine wont make money trying to sell t-shirt of a guy that doesnt even speak english...
he also hasnt signed a deal with XYIENCE so forget about a long run for him... money talks in the UFC world...


----------



## qbanwayz

attention said:


> money talks in the UFC world...


Though I agree with you I have to disagree. Money talks in any organization including pride: for example: GIANT SILVA, I mean who the **** puts some7'2" guy that doesnt have any mma expierence or fighting for that matter in a ring with profissionals. Have you seen him fight, his record is 1-6 (all in PRIDE FC) and he swings like he was trying to catch a butterfly. Why would some one do that that, because he is a circus attraction that brings in a crowd. Another example in pride: Ken Keneko vs Charles Barnett. Ken is a ****ing japenesse actor with no fighting expierience. WHO DO **** PUTS AN ACTOR TO FIGHT IN MMA, C'MON. IT BRINGS PEOPLE, **** PROFISSIONALISM. So you see the point is _" The only color that matters is the color Green " . quote from petter griffin_


----------



## matt1970

there are plenty of shitty fighters in pride.i see them every time i watch pride.just like ufc.but pride does have a deeper pool


----------



## dannov

qbanwayz said:


> "UFC is where they got their start with PRIDE being the final destination"
> 
> That has been pobally the worst comment Ive heard so far. Like I said earlier they have there goods and bads but to say something like that makes me laugh. Vitor bilfort is not in pride because he is moving up, Viltor bilfort is there because he loss his belt and loss another fight after that. UFC no longer offered him fights. Mark Coleman is in Pride for the same reason, he lost several fights and UFC stop offering him fights. When Coleman went to pride he won the Heavyweight Grand Prix tournament. Kevin Randlman also lost to many fight and UFC also didnt want him back so he went to pride. Phil Boronni also lost to many fights and the UFC let him go (right after the fight with that new york kid from UFC "the comeback") Phil is now having great sucess in Pride. Guy Mezger also went to pride right after loosing to Tito ortiz, Shamrock went to Pride after loosing to Ortiz ( I think shamrock actually fought once in pride before Ortiz but im not sure). Don Frye went to pride after loosing to Mark Coleman in UFC.Marvin Eastman has not one a single UFC fight he is 0-3 yet he is going to be fighting in pride on Oct 27. Robie Lawler, Josh Barnett, Tank Abbott??? All lost back to back in UFC so they were offered no more fights. Wow they sure use pride for thier final destination, when there carrer is sinking down the drain I guess any fighter would, and some of these fighters are having sucess in Pride. Man I can keep going and going. So please refraing from saying idiotic comments about UFC, and if you say something bad about pride I can reverse it on you. Again I have to say this pride vs UFC is nonsence and you guys need to respect both.


Look -- the UFC pays its fighters jack-squat. Hell, Kurt Angle was offered a 30-million dollar contract at Pride over a 5-year period, which required him to fight about 2 times a year. Dana offered him 10-million over 5-years (though he would have only of had to fight once, and then be in attendance for 5-years). As a result, PRIDE will have a much deeper pool of talent due to it being where the money is. Also, you need to look at every one of those fighters' situations on an individual basis.

Coleman -- though not published, he was on steroids, just as Shamrock was post-WWE (Shamrock had to stop his PRIDE match that he was own. As a result, he'd frequently gas out real hard, not to mention the guy's a big smoker. You'll notice that most of his wins are real quick. He overcame a good deal of his stamina hurdles by the time he won the PRIDE Grand Prix, UFC was his start. I'm pretty sure White would bring him back given the opportunity, but the money wouldn't be in the UFC for him.

Barnett -- tested positive for anabolic steroids after winning the title from Randy, got kicked out. Went to PRIDE where he's enjoying a pretty good career.

Tank Abbott -- He's been back to the UFC, he would just come and go wherever the fights are. Little known fact, he's at least bisexual, if not gay.

Marvin Eastman -- While it's true he's lost three UFC matches, he does have a record of 13-6, with 1 draw. That's not too shabby, and I'm sure PRIDE looks at his overall MMA record more than just the fact htat he lost half his fights in UFC. Same deal with Lawler.

The only thing that I dislike about PRIDE is that they are known to favor Japanese fighters in decisions. However, the fact that fighters often have to compete 2-3 times in one night definitely edges out UFC in terms of how conditioned the fighters have to be.


----------



## attention

qbanwayz said:


> Though I agree with you I have to disagree. Money talks in any organization including pride: for example: GIANT SILVA, I mean who the **** puts some7'2" guy that doesnt have any mma expierence or fighting for that matter in a ring with profissionals. Have you seen him fight, his record is 1-6 (all in PRIDE FC) and he swings like he was trying to catch a butterfly. Why would some one do that that, because he is a circus attraction that brings in a crowd. Another example in pride: Ken Keneko vs Charles Barnett. Ken is a ****ing japenesse actor with no fighting expierience. WHO DO **** PUTS AN ACTOR TO FIGHT IN MMA, C'MON. IT BRINGS PEOPLE, **** PROFISSIONALISM. So you see the point is _" The only color that matters is the color Green " . quote from petter griffin_


Heh, true enuf 

There will always be the need for a 'spectacle' to get the marketing draw... but those are really the 'side-show' aspects of the Japanese culture

UFC started the same way, with the "no-holds" barred Gracie draw... groin, pressure point, head-butt attacks!

The 'spectacle' is part of the Japanese culture though, an inherent part of Pride.
The UFC evolved into something completely different.... its targetting the same demographic as the viewers who watch WWE... 
Going after the market that watches boxing is lucrative... you cant split the revenues coming from boxing community with that coming from MMA... BUT, they realize they CAN try to steer the same people who watch WWE wrestling, to the UFC.

Which is why they had that ridiculous Tito VS Shamrock drama ... ugh!
When was the last time you saw this with Boxers? or a real professional sport?
They want to introduce drama... its just going down a path that I find sad...

I really enjoyed the UFC when it had more to do with MMA and less to do with gaining viewership/sponsorship/mass market appeal.


----------



## Matt_Serra_Fan

Tito vs Shamrock was horrible. Tito vs Chuck is goign to horrible. Dana better step up his game and get some better fighters or I just might not be a watcher anymore. Plus hes going to lose all his other watchers also.


----------



## BigBadBruce

attention said:


> I was a huge UFC fan from the start... but now its gone the way of the old WWF... which is now the WWE...
> 
> The whole shamrock vs tito bull, now tito vs chunk...err chuck ??? cmon, get some *real* talent back...
> 
> Im sick of these paper champions... basically everyone of them are poster boys for XYIENCE.
> 
> It was a HUGE upset when silva beat franklin, every one was in disbelief...
> this was supposed to be franklin stepping stone to show hes 'back in business'...
> I was SOOO happy when he went down
> 
> A wise mma fighter said "you are only as good as your last fight"...
> He knew that your record means squat once you step into that ring.
> 
> These "win records are merely being used as money draws... and thats exactly what these UFC fighter are... manufactured money draws... you might as well call them the Backstreet boys of the MMA world
> 
> The dont have a huge pool of talent because they dont want to lose their money makers.
> 
> You know that they wont let Silva keep this title for long, the machine wont make money trying to sell t-shirt of a guy that doesnt even speak english...
> he also hasnt signed a deal with XYIENCE so forget about a long run for him... money talks in the UFC world...


So Matt Hughes is a garbage fighter when he lost to BJ Penn? That means he should have never beat BJ Penn a second time but he did. People have their ups and downs, but you seem to be oblivious to that fact. You can't say the UFC has no talent because they do. People diss the UFC saying they drink the UFC kool-aid when they're being hypocritical and doing this whole pride thing. Since i've been on here (and that's for a very short time) more people have been praising pride and making it sound like the real deal. I've seen plenty of pride fights and they aren't more or less exciting than UFC fights. The talent in the UFC might not be as big but that's because they have few fighters from other regions. Pride is global and accepts all fighters. 
You're just being a bad fan and insulting MMA fighters. What kind of fan is that? I think all fighters in both pride and UFC are extremely talented. It takes hardwork and talent to make it to the big league. Not any chump just walks in and says "yeah I got a black belt in BJJ, you should let me in". They obviously test them and see if they can fight.
And i'm sure alot of people are loving Anderson Silva. He'll be earning the big bucks for the UFC, he's an exciting fighter. He ends rounds in KOs in the first few minutes.
It also seems like you're oblivious that every company and everything wants to make money. You make PRIDE sound like some angel company when all they care about is making money too. There are very few large names these days that give a crap the thing they're selling and care more about their income. It's reality, live with it.


----------



## attention

BigBadBruce said:


> So Matt Hughes is a garbage fighter when he lost to BJ Penn? That means he should have never beat BJ Penn a second time but he did. People have their ups and downs, but you seem to be oblivious to that fact. You can't say the UFC has no talent because they do. People diss the UFC saying they drink the UFC kool-aid when they're being hypocritical and doing this whole pride thing. Since i've been on here (and that's for a very short time) more people have been praising pride and making it sound like the real deal. I've seen plenty of pride fights and they aren't more or less exciting than UFC fights. The talent in the UFC might not be as big but that's because they have few fighters from other regions. Pride is global and accepts all fighters.
> You're just being a bad fan and insulting MMA fighters. What kind of fan is that? I think all fighters in both pride and UFC are extremely talented. It takes hardwork and talent to make it to the big league. Not any chump just walks in and says "yeah I got a black belt in BJJ, you should let me in". They obviously test them and see if they can fight.
> And i'm sure alot of people are loving Anderson Silva. He'll be earning the big bucks for the UFC, he's an exciting fighter. He ends rounds in KOs in the first few minutes.
> It also seems like you're oblivious that every company and everything wants to make money. You make PRIDE sound like some angel company when all they care about is making money too. There are very few large names these days that give a crap the thing they're selling and care more about their income. It's reality, live with it.


You quote my post, but dont bother to read it...
I never typed in the text "PRIDE"... ugh, at least get that straight first...
You obviously have some chip on your shoulder because you are writing about some "in between the lines" text that I never wrote  

If you search for all my posts, I dont believe in clumping ALL fighters together and branding them Losers OR Winners... that just aint right...
Pride OR UFC ... who cares, a fighter should be judged on his/her performance ... period.

I said I find Matt Hughes *BORING*... thats all.
Here is every frikin Hughes fight: 
takedown, pass guard, then ground&pound *yawn*

Is he effective.... you damn straight he is... does he fight some tuff guys... absolutely...
Hes got a tried, tested and true method for winning... why change?
Fine, he doesnt have to change... but it still makes for one hella boring fight.

Pride is NOT an angel arena, BY NO MEANS... it has its own share of expendable crewmen...

My critizism if of the TINY pool of talent in the UFC ... which is purposely done to limit the risk of dethroning the current champions...
which is why you see these ghastly rematches that no-one cares about...

but they manufacture a Dramatic reason why its meaningful... uh, like the WWE... This fighter is talking trash about another fighter... ohh... im waiting for Jimmy the mouth to show up soon or Rowdy Roddy... ugh


----------



## BigE

I must admit I was a little disappointed with Franklin's fight. It looked as though being in the clinch actually stunned him, he didn't know what to do.

I'm hoping the rematch is a little more remarkable.


----------



## dannov

attention said:


> Heh, true enuf
> 
> There will always be the need for a 'spectacle' to get the marketing draw... but those are really the 'side-show' aspects of the Japanese culture
> 
> UFC started the same way, with the "no-holds" barred Gracie draw... groin, pressure point, head-butt attacks!
> 
> The 'spectacle' is part of the Japanese culture though, an inherent part of Pride.
> The UFC evolved into something completely different.... its targetting the same demographic as the viewers who watch WWE...
> Going after the market that watches boxing is lucrative... you cant split the revenues coming from boxing community with that coming from MMA... BUT, they realize they CAN try to steer the same people who watch WWE wrestling, to the UFC.
> 
> Which is why they had that ridiculous Tito VS Shamrock drama ... ugh!
> When was the last time you saw this with Boxers? or a real professional sport?
> They want to introduce drama... its just going down a path that I find sad...
> 
> I really enjoyed the UFC when it had more to do with MMA and less to do with gaining viewership/sponsorship/mass market appeal.


Wow, talk about your pseudo-intellectualism, here is a freaking classic example. Let's get a few facts straight:

#1 - I've been following WWE's ratings for going on 7 years. The ratings haven't moved even .1 due to the UFC. The PPV buyrates aren't as lucrative as they were in the Attitude era, but that's because of bad writing and misuse of talent and not because of the UFC. They're still making a killing.

#2 - UFC is *NOT* trying to steal WWE fans. In fact, UFC has been the lead-in for WWE's only slight competition -- TNA (and it's been working). Dana, however, does know that DRAMA SELLS. It always will, for ANYTHING. That's why you have a whole damned movie genre that's straight-up called "drama." Drama sells.

#3 - Using that drama, White is able to lure more viewers in to a product that they are unfamiliar with, and then get them hooked based off of what they see. It's like someone dangling a carrot in front of a horse's nose in order to lead it to a pile of carrots. That = $$ move.

#4 - "When was the last time you saw this with Boxers? or a real professional sport?" WOW! Are you ****ing serious? Tyson saved boxing in the 80s, and made trash-talking famous with the drama that he would create before each match. Remember the buzz that surrounded Tyson when he bit Holyfield's ear off? People would PAY MONEY to see Tyson (hopefully) get his ass whooped in subsequent fights. Tyson was a great draw not because of just his ability, but because he had one heluva mouth and personality behind him that lured viewers in, love him or hate him, they bought PPVs because of him.

As for other sports, where do we begin? Steroids in professional baseball has brought a lot of media focus onto baseball, which translates into viewer focus as well. Dennis Rodman was incredibly popular, again, love him or hate him, because of his unorthodox style. That French idiot that headbutted the Italian -- that brought a lot more publicity and interest into soccer than it usually gets.

You know, I just watched Pleasantville for the second time today as it has been a few years, and I suggest that you do the same. Not to spoil the movie for those who have not seen it, but Pleasantville is the same thing every day, ad infinitum. However, when the people are exposed to something different, they never want to go back. Interest has greatly increased, and things are much more exciting. This is analogous to drama versus your everday, average "sportsmanlike conduct." You can't have one without the other, as drama would have no value if conduct wasn't the norm. If it was drama 24/7, it wouldn't be news or interest-worthy. On the other hand, if every athlete acted in the best possible manner, then you'd get into an endless loop of the same damned thing over and over. You won't be gaining viewers, but you will be losing viewers to stuff that does have drama within it.

The primary industry that stands to lose anything to UFC is boxing. That is why it's barred still in states like my own (NY) -- special interests.


----------



## attention

dannov you raise some interesting points to say the least...
Its good to see you taking a logical point of view, I can appreciate that.
I respect your opinion, peace man.

#1
Its not about "Stealing" as in taking away from... its about sharing the demographic...
They know that if the UFC changes their programming to suit the same demographic as those that watch WWE, then they will make a killing...
Its not as if this is a closed system, people can AND do like BOTH.

#2
Drama does sell, yes indeed. But then you must agree that they are indeed turning the UFC into sports "entertainment"... like the WWE... correct?

#3
Do you believe this to be a good thing?
Do you think making the UFC into the WWE is a good reflection of the MMA sport in general?

#4
Good point, Tyson was very 'dramatic' in his hayday... but during that time he never needed to make things interesting... he had talent. It was only after he lost his talent that he went the slimy route.
Ali was 'dramatic'... fair... again, it put on a good show... 
But neither went down the 'soap opera" route that this whole "Tito vs Shamrock" thing went... Completely different.... 
Its like saying that WWE is a "real" sport, which it clearly is not.

Well, Im going to agree to disagree about whether this "soap opera" type sports "entertainment" is good for the UFC... 
...good for the bucks that much we can agree on.
Its a matter of personal taste and it simply is just not for me.

peace man


----------



## BigBadBruce

dannov said:


> Wow, talk about your pseudo-intellectualism, here is a freaking classic example. Let's get a few facts straight:
> 
> #1 - I've been following WWE's ratings for going on 7 years. The ratings haven't moved even .1 due to the UFC. The PPV buyrates aren't as lucrative as they were in the Attitude era, but that's because of bad writing and misuse of talent and not because of the UFC. They're still making a killing.
> 
> #2 - UFC is *NOT* trying to steal WWE fans. In fact, UFC has been the lead-in for WWE's only slight competition -- TNA (and it's been working). Dana, however, does know that DRAMA SELLS. It always will, for ANYTHING. That's why you have a whole damned movie genre that's straight-up called "drama." Drama sells.
> 
> #3 - Using that drama, White is able to lure more viewers in to a product that they are unfamiliar with, and then get them hooked based off of what they see. It's like someone dangling a carrot in front of a horse's nose in order to lead it to a pile of carrots. That = $$ move.
> 
> #4 - "When was the last time you saw this with Boxers? or a real professional sport?" WOW! Are you ****ing serious? Tyson saved boxing in the 80s, and made trash-talking famous with the drama that he would create before each match. Remember the buzz that surrounded Tyson when he bit Holyfield's ear off? People would PAY MONEY to see Tyson (hopefully) get his ass whooped in subsequent fights. Tyson was a great draw not because of just his ability, but because he had one heluva mouth and personality behind him that lured viewers in, love him or hate him, they bought PPVs because of him.
> 
> As for other sports, where do we begin? Steroids in professional baseball has brought a lot of media focus onto baseball, which translates into viewer focus as well. Dennis Rodman was incredibly popular, again, love him or hate him, because of his unorthodox style. That French idiot that headbutted the Italian -- that brought a lot more publicity and interest into soccer than it usually gets.
> 
> You know, I just watched Pleasantville for the second time today as it has been a few years, and I suggest that you do the same. Not to spoil the movie for those who have not seen it, but Pleasantville is the same thing every day, ad infinitum. However, when the people are exposed to something different, they never want to go back. Interest has greatly increased, and things are much more exciting. This is analogous to drama versus your everday, average "sportsmanlike conduct." You can't have one without the other, as drama would have no value if conduct wasn't the norm. If it was drama 24/7, it wouldn't be news or interest-worthy. On the other hand, if every athlete acted in the best possible manner, then you'd get into an endless loop of the same damned thing over and over. You won't be gaining viewers, but you will be losing viewers to stuff that does have drama within it.
> 
> The primary industry that stands to lose anything to UFC is boxing. That is why it's barred still in states like my own (NY) -- special interests.


Did you just call Zidane an idiot!!!!! lol
but you make very good points, touche touche.


----------



## BigBadBruce

attention said:


> You quote my post, but dont bother to read it...
> I never typed in the text "PRIDE"... ugh, at least get that straight first...
> You obviously have some chip on your shoulder because you are writing about some "in between the lines" text that I never wrote
> 
> If you search for all my posts, I dont believe in clumping ALL fighters together and branding them Losers OR Winners... that just aint right...
> Pride OR UFC ... who cares, a fighter should be judged on his/her performance ... period.
> 
> I said I find Matt Hughes *BORING*... thats all.
> Here is every frikin Hughes fight:
> takedown, pass guard, then ground&pound *yawn*
> 
> Is he effective.... you damn straight he is... does he fight some tuff guys... absolutely...
> Hes got a tried, tested and true method for winning... why change?
> Fine, he doesnt have to change... but it still makes for one hella boring fight.
> 
> Pride is NOT an angel arena, BY NO MEANS... it has its own share of expendable crewmen...
> 
> My critizism if of the TINY pool of talent in the UFC ... which is purposely done to limit the risk of dethroning the current champions...
> which is why you see these ghastly rematches that no-one cares about...
> 
> but they manufacture a Dramatic reason why its meaningful... uh, like the WWE... This fighter is talking trash about another fighter... ohh... im waiting for Jimmy the mouth to show up soon or Rowdy Roddy... ugh


Yes, I do agree that UFC has a lack of talent. I searched through the UFC database, and I can honestly say most of them aren't very exciting fighters. I think the main problem with the UFC is that all the fighters are ground and pound and lack aggressiveness. PRIDE seems to be more aggressive whereas UFC seems more conservative. 
I think the UFC should do an Ultimate Fighter International. I think that woudl attract more attention globally plus a bigger and more diverse pool of talent.


----------



## attention

BigBadBruce said:


> Yes, I do agree that UFC has a lack of talent. I searched through the UFC database, and I can honestly say most of them aren't very exciting fighters. I think the main problem with the UFC is that all the fighters are ground and pound and lack aggressiveness. PRIDE seems to be more aggressive whereas UFC seems more conservative.
> I think the UFC should do an Ultimate Fighter International. I think that woudl attract more attention globally plus a bigger and more diverse pool of talent.


That sounds like a good plan!

Instead of trying to stir drama, why not diversify...
Still keep the same rules, but tap into the international market that will expand their viewerbase...

I will say this about the UFC, they "know" how to market their guys and I would not doubt that they could do a hellava good job if they went this way...

After pondering what dannov mentions about the UFC's effect on Boxing, I have to admit ... he makes alot fo sense ... 
Boxing is losing viewership to the UFC... but they could win them back by toning down the drama and increasing (Like you have said) their presence on the international stage.

There is another thread regarding "friends not fighting friends" which I think has some relevance in regard to the "drama" side of things in the UFC...

Initially UFC had many "stables" of fighters to pit each other against...
Its come down to this, that "stablemates" are pitted against one another...

If they kept up the variety of "stables" then the pool of fighters would be greater and the chances of "friends fighting friends" drops...

But I guess this comes back to market viability... where managing alot of stables means surrendering some control over money drawing bouts.


----------



## RevnR6

I must say, another thing that makes pride interesting are the fact that the still have tournaments of sorts. They also have much larger cards. I have a bunch of Pride DVDs as well as UFC DVDs and the Pride ones always have at least a few more fights per card. The main thing that the UFC has going for it is that it is US based, and we are in the US, so its more interesting for us because we can actually go to the shows, and go to the gyms where our favorite fighters train, etc. And, the octagon. Fighting in the Octagon is simply more entertaining and a better show of skill than fighting in a ring. THe re-sets in Pride really hurt the momentum and flow of the fight. Also the ability to use the extra room in the cage and pick a fighter up is huge. I am sure everyone remembers the Carlos Newton/Matt Hughes fight where Hughes (on the way to being choked out himself) slammed (or dropped depending on your view of the fight) Newton to the matt, knocking him out cold. This is something that would not have happened the way it did in Pride, and in my view, that sort of thing hurts Pride. I think that if Pride went to a cage, and started doing way more shows in the US (even if they had to soften some of the rules to meet the sanctioning requirements, they would take over, as long as the kept their big names fighting here.

If Pride were to get the cage going and do more shows in the US, the UFC would be put in a real bad spot, and I could see the UFC being unable to recover. It is something that Pride really should consider. Hell they could even go with a 10 or 12 sided cage so that they didn't violate any patents or trademarks (in the case of calling it an octagon).

I am interested in hearing what all of you think about that. Am I on target or am I way in left field?


----------



## attention

RevnR6 said:


> I must say, another thing that makes pride interesting are the fact that the still have tournaments of sorts. They also have much larger cards. I have a bunch of Pride DVDs as well as UFC DVDs and the Pride ones always have at least a few more fights per card. The main thing that the UFC has going for it is that it is US based, and we are in the US, so its more interesting for us because we can actually go to the shows, and go to the gyms where our favorite fighters train, etc. And, the octagon. Fighting in the Octagon is simply more entertaining and a better show of skill than fighting in a ring. THe re-sets in Pride really hurt the momentum and flow of the fight. Also the ability to use the extra room in the cage and pick a fighter up is huge. I am sure everyone remembers the Carlos Newton/Matt Hughes fight where Hughes (on the way to being choked out himself) slammed (or dropped depending on your view of the fight) Newton to the matt, knocking him out cold. This is something that would not have happened the way it did in Pride, and in my view, that sort of thing hurts Pride. I think that if Pride went to a cage, and started doing way more shows in the US (even if they had to soften some of the rules to meet the sanctioning requirements, they would take over, as long as the kept their big names fighting here.
> 
> If Pride were to get the cage going and do more shows in the US, the UFC would be put in a real bad spot, and I could see the UFC being unable to recover. It is something that Pride really should consider. Hell they could even go with a 10 or 12 sided cage so that they didn't violate any patents or trademarks (in the case of calling it an octagon).
> 
> I am interested in hearing what all of you think about that. Am I on target or am I way in left field?


You've raised some interesting points regarding the cage...
Im reconsidering my opinion of it now...

My pet peeve with the cage though is how the wrestling based mma fighters "wedge" people against it....
Literally dragging them from the center of the ring to the side of the cage for that purpose... 

Of course, Im not sure which is worse, the stoppage of action or the "wedging" of fighters...

If only they had an arena with boarders like a video game... that as you encroached on one side, you would just pop out of the opposite side


----------



## BigBadBruce

I think they both have their ups and downs. 
But, the UFC could improve more. I like seeing more stand up, makes the fighting much more interesting. Guys like Loiseau and Silva are awesome because they make people bleed and cut with sharp punchs, knees and elbows. 
Like the UFC could use more wrestlers and strikers. To me some fights get to the ground so fast and nothing happens. Some fighters aren't dominant enough or aren't strong enough. Some of them are so skinny and show no real power. Like a guy like Tito vs Chuck is awesome because they're both powerful guys. Someone is going to get knocked out and I like to see that. They throw hard punches, power takedowns.. the UFC needs more of that. PRIDE has alot of talented, powerful fighter. Alot of strikers too. I love stand up knockdowns because there's so many ways to knock someone out standup. Whereas on the ground, either rubbing the elbow into the guys head or punching him alot. Whoopie doo...


----------



## Grotty

There was nothing fixed in the fight- Franklin lost to the better man that night, i even think franklin will improve 60% more after losing.


----------



## dannov

Howdy, Attention, I just wanted to point out (and to anyone else reading) that sometime my replies can come off as offensive in tone. That isn't my intention, I just get a bit passionate at times 

Whether UFC needs drama or not is an interesting thing to ponder. I'm going to parallel WWE here for a moment. Fans have been saying for some time that McMahon is far too focused on the entertainment aspect, and puts very little emphasis these days on the belts and sports aspect. I believe it was recently even said that commentators were never to refer to wrestlers as wrestlers on live TV. Downplaying your history and the original intent of the spectacle is a great way to alienate your audience. Vince is so caught up on finding the next Stone Cold and Rock that he's going just for personality, and ignoring what sold so many PPVs in the golden days -- long, heavy fights for the gold. It's a sad thing really.

On another note, Dana should take notice that McMahon's efforts of capitalizing on drama and personality alone are not the absolute only ways to draw viewers and keep them watching the product. Drama is fine in doses, but you can't string along viewers on that alone when every aspect of the sport isn't worked (like wrestling). How many people here (or anywhere) were disappointed when they were watching all of this tension build-up between Shamrock/Ortiz for years, just for there to be no real pay-off at the end? In wrestling, at least you'd have a guaranteed 15-minute match or so, but the last two matches together didn't even break five minutes.

In oonclusion, I have two things to say:

- Completely ignoring drama, in my opinion, would be a bad marketing move. It is a good way to hook new viewers.

- Equally or even moreso important is UFC's dire need to create more legitimate competition within its organization. A prior poster brought up the need for internationalization -- I agree. The reason that ECW managed to survive for years against WCW and the then-WWF was due to Paul Heyman's insistence on scouting the world for the best possible and unique talent to separate his own brand. UFC needs to do the same -- scout the entire world for fighters, and give them a chance. Feeding chumps to champs will not sell PPVs, it would behoove Dana to start to look more seriously outside of America for talent.

PS - On an unrelated note, boxing is still very unique and entertaining to watch. Those guys are incredibly tough, and that match between the Polish dude and Briggs the Aussie was just ****ing incredible. Those guys, if trained well in ground and take-down tactics along with how to use knees/legs would be incredible MMA-strikers. They can take and dish out loads of punishment. Oh well, just an aside opinion of mine, hehe.


----------



## jaymackz

^ If UFC were to scout and give the entire world of fighters a chance....then the fighters would ultimately have to fight for free. Dana would not pay them any $. I MEAN look at how he pays some of his fighters. He only gives them probably only 5% of what he makes out of PPV events. UFC fighters (not Champs/Contenders) usually get paid $2000-$5000 depending on how well they fight. Now back to the main focus, Those fighters would probably get like 500 a fight..and it would never work out Dana is too full of himself. We all know hes loaded but would he ever pay his fighters for what they're worth? No...and you wanna know why? Because he believes hes already giving them enough...considering they're on TV, he has to pay for TV slots, PPV events, he has to spend $ for arena etc etc..IMHO he's not cuttin it equally for all the fighters. There's a post somewhere here...regarding How much UFC pays their fighters.


----------



## Bonnar426

I think the president of Pride called him out on this once! Millian said that his bushido fighters make more then what Rich Franklin (MW champion at the time) did! I mean look what Tito had to do to get paid a decent amount of money! Its riduculous over there!


----------



## daman5

BigE said:


> I must admit I was a little disappointed with Franklin's fight. It looked as though being in the clinch actually stunned him, he didn't know what to do.
> 
> I'm hoping the rematch is a little more remarkable.



nope... unless rich learns more then just 1 wrestling style... or learns a completly different fighting style... hes going to get HAMMERED every time... lol.. thats why its great to see pride fighters in UFC.. then you get to see what MMA actually is... as apposed to wrestlers rolling on the round .. and then you guys thinking that, "wow that was a great fight" ... 

the only thing i was ever worried about in that match was that Rich is a smart person .. i was worried that he would do something that would catch Anderson off guard... lol.. but after watching the fight... i knew Rich and his smartness is nothing to a person who has skill

in the interview anderson said "tonight I was the better man" ... it wont be just tonight.. lol he is greater than all UFC champions right now.. he doesn't even have to bulk up


----------



## attention

dannov said:


> Howdy, Attention, I just wanted to point out (and to anyone else reading) that sometime my replies can come off as offensive in tone. That isn't my intention, I just get a bit passionate at times
> ...
> - Completely ignoring drama, in my opinion, would be a bad marketing move. It is a good way to hook new viewers.
> 
> - Equally or even moreso important is UFC's dire need to create more legitimate competition within its organization. A prior poster brought up the need for internationalization -- I agree. The reason that ECW managed to survive for years against WCW and the then-WWF was due to Paul Heyman's insistence on scouting the world for the best possible and unique talent to separate his own brand. UFC needs to do the same -- scout the entire world for fighters, and give them a chance. Feeding chumps to champs will not sell PPVs, it would behoove Dana to start to look more seriously outside of America for talent.
> 
> PS - On an unrelated note, boxing is still very unique and entertaining to watch. Those guys are incredibly tough, and that match between the Polish dude and Briggs the Aussie was just ****ing incredible. Those guys, if trained well in ground and take-down tactics along with how to use knees/legs would be incredible MMA-strikers. They can take and dish out loads of punishment. Oh well, just an aside opinion of mine, hehe.


No worries, I think we all get a little bit "dramatic"  when it comes to the mma sport which we so dearly love  Im guilty of being very passionate as well and can really rub people the wrong way... peace man.

I happen to agree with everything you said, sadly though jaymackz point regarding salaries is the catch22 which makes your recommendation difficult, if not impossible, to execute


----------



## RevnR6

I agree that the UFC needs to pay its fighters more. That is how you get better talent, plain and simple. More pay gets more talent and more motivated fighters, more talent and motivation means more exciting fights, more exciting fights means more fans and more existing fans willing to shell out the PPV money, more fans means more money. Its really a simple equation. Dana did a great job bringing the UFC out of the red and getting it back to the top of the MMA world, but now is the time to step up. Dana also needs to realize that these fighters give a lot to train for MMA, they deserve some decent money. Now I am not saying that we need to start seeing boxing-like paydays, but come on, with only 20 fighters per card (or so), it won't hurt the company to pay them 10K per fighter instead of 2-5K.


----------



## BigBadBruce

daman5 said:


> nope... unless rich learns more then just 1 wrestling style... or learns a completly different fighting style... hes going to get HAMMERED every time... lol.. thats why its great to see pride fighters in UFC.. then you get to see what MMA actually is... as apposed to wrestlers rolling on the round .. and then you guys thinking that, "wow that was a great fight" ...
> 
> the only thing i was ever worried about in that match was that Rich is a smart person .. i was worried that he would do something that would catch Anderson off guard... lol.. but after watching the fight... i knew Rich and his smartness is nothing to a person who has skill
> 
> in the interview anderson said "tonight I was the better man" ... it wont be just tonight.. lol he is greater than all UFC champions right now.. he doesn't even have to bulk up


Dude easy on the Silva praise. Won't you feel like a major jackass when Silva gets pounded? By the way you talk, I predict you're going to say "He'll never lose". First, Franklin was out for 7 months. He had to have metal plates into his hands and he had to heal. Things like that take a long time to heal so he probably had little time to train whereas Silva had a fight and was healthy for a long time. Second, how many fighters have you see beat someone with a broken hand? Not very many have you? Franklin is a determined fighter I think he's just as a good fighter as Silva. Lastly, the guy was out sync. Fighting isn't just a macho brutual sport (i've said all of this already). It's an art. I play alot of basketball, and when I don't play for a month, It's hard for me to even get some consistency going. This is true with every sport. Consistency is hard to build when you've been out so long. You're obviously oblivious to that fact and choose to spread the word that Anderson Silva is unbeatable. He's been beat by several subpar fighters in Pride and he can be beaten by lots of guys in the UFC.


----------



## Squeetard

Franklin, a self proclaimed 'intelligent' fighter made a rookie mental mistake and it cost him the fight, and his nose. Chuck Liddel did the same mistake in the first Couture fight, and it cost him the fight.

Let's call it the 'not in my house' syndrome. When someone comes at you effectively using skills your ego has told you you are better at than them, instead of countering them, you get all "Oh no you don't"! and try to impose your game over top of theirs.

Franklin said it himself in the post fight interview that he thought the clinch was 'his game'. Consquently he made no effort to try and get out of it instead tried to outwork him inside it and paid the price.

Hopefully he will adjust and be back. I think a rematch will be good. Franklin is an awesome fighter. His own ego got in his way that time.


----------



## khaldun007

frankly i think its robbery the wages that these fighters get paid. 5000$ for a fight 10 000 if you win? Thats basically like saying you get paid 10 000 for 6 months of working out and years and years of training. they probably aren't even getting paid minimum wage when you calculate ho wmuch time they put into it.


----------



## lordofcharm

*Bad Research*



RevnR6 said:


> Sup guys, this is also my first post here. Reason I was posting today is I wanted to see what kind of talk was going on about Franklins fight last night. I do not think the fight was fixed, but I do want to know what is wrong with Rich. I want to know if he is ok. I am not his friend or anything but to me it looked like something was wrong with him from the second we saw him tonight. I even mentioned to my girlfriend that Franklin didn't look right. To me he fought like someone whose wife just divorced him. The same kind of look I see from athletes who had some sort of big personal problem right before an event.
> Now I dont want anyone to think I am saying Rich needs to air his dirty laundry but It would be nice to know that there was a reason for him not being all there last night.


i think rich wasn't dumb and knew exactly what he was getting himself into and that lead him to fear silva. i bet he watched silva's tapes and was like "damn, im ****ed" realizing that he is finally going up against a true world class striker.

then i bet he went to jermy horn for some advice on a game plan, just to get discouraged by how hard it is to take silva down, and how hard silva punches. all this lead to a franklin that we do not get a chance to see very often, a frankling with no confidence, a franklin with a crooked noise. but that's just my theory.


----------



## Blochead

BigBadBruce said:


> Dude easy on the Silva praise. Won't you feel like a major jackass when Silva gets pounded? By the way you talk, I predict you're going to say "He'll never lose". First, Franklin was out for 7 months. He had to have metal plates into his hands and he had to heal. Things like that take a long time to heal so he probably had little time to train whereas Silva had a fight and was healthy for a long time. Second, how many fighters have you see beat someone with a broken hand? Not very many have you? Franklin is a determined fighter I think he's just as a good fighter as Silva. Lastly, the guy was out sync. Fighting isn't just a macho brutual sport (i've said all of this already). It's an art. I play alot of basketball, and when I don't play for a month, It's hard for me to even get some consistency going. This is true with every sport. Consistency is hard to build when you've been out so long. You're obviously oblivious to that fact and choose to spread the word that Anderson Silva is unbeatable. He's been beat by several subpar fighters in Pride and he can be beaten by lots of guys in the UFC.


i honestly doubt it was ring rust. They weren't moving and striking each other, they were in a muay thai clinch that whole fight. franklin was put in the clinch three times and absorbing alot of damage. you know the saying, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on you, fool me three times, shame on me. 

All I'm saying is that Franklin had chances to change his game plan and couldn't adjust, regardless of ring rust


----------



## blackskimmer

Blochead said:


> i honestly doubt it was ring rust. They weren't moving and striking each other, they were in a muay thai clinch that whole fight. franklin was put in the clinch three times and absorbing alot of damage. you know the saying, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on you, fool me three times, shame on me.
> 
> All I'm saying is that Franklin had chances to change his game plan and couldn't adjust, regardless of ring rust



Good post I agree somewhat.


----------



## johnbender

*weird stuff*

That was probably the weirdest fight I've ever seen!

A lot of people have said they thought he looked "Down" and "not there" when he came into the ring. I agree! 

I accidentilly ran across the results of this fight before I saw it, and I heard how everyone was thinking it was fixed. Well, Im about on the fence with this one... I really doubt any fights are fixed in the ufc but if its possible, THIS is the fight that was.

Look at the clinch, and how he just stood there, never even TRIED to get out of it. The look on his face as he kept holding on... Just looked odd.

I dont know for sure, no one but Rich knows, but something was definitely wrong there. And as for Silva owning the division, I'll say this, take any of the fighters in the world, let them just STAND THERE with a blank look on their face while in the clinch and let them tiger uppercut and Tiger knee their face off, and no one is gonna stand a chance. 

Was impressed with the knockout, but Rich was like a punching bag. 

Weird.


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## Dmac

I haven't seen this fight yet but damn I have seen a clip of that knee, he sent Franklin's nose halfway across his damn cheek, after that I am not in the slightest suprised that Franklin couldn't recover.


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## f-dog

johnbender said:


> That was probably the weirdest fight I've ever seen!
> 
> A lot of people have said they thought he looked "Down" and "not there" when he came into the ring. I agree!
> 
> I accidentilly ran across the results of this fight before I saw it, and I heard how everyone was thinking it was fixed. Well, Im about on the fence with this one... I really doubt any fights are fixed in the ufc but if its possible, THIS is the fight that was.
> 
> Look at the clinch, and how he just stood there, never even TRIED to get out of it. The look on his face as he kept holding on... Just looked odd.
> 
> I dont know for sure, no one but Rich knows, but something was definitely wrong there. And as for Silva owning the division, I'll say this, take any of the fighters in the world, let them just STAND THERE with a blank look on their face while in the clinch and let them tiger uppercut and Tiger knee their face off, and no one is gonna stand a chance.
> 
> Was impressed with the knockout, but Rich was like a punching bag.
> 
> Weird.


That's pretty much how I feel. I do not think it was fixed but I can see how some might. That was the most bizarre fight I've ever seen.


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