# Josh Koscheck: UFC offered me BJ Penn fight and I said YES! (Penn responds)



## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

> Former Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) Welterweight title challenger Josh Koscheck took to Twitter tonight and spilled the beans on the next fight he was offered by UFC Matchmaker Joe Silva ... none other than B.J. Penn. You know, the guy who is supposedly retired from the sport.
> 
> *#UFC just offered me to fight BJ Penn...I said YES!!!!! Just waiting on him!!!!!! Let's scrap bra?
> *
> ...


*MMAMania*

Don't be scared Hawaiian, take the fight.

EDIT: Penn's response is in page 3.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

an unmotivated Penn would be beaten by Kos, if both come in fired up? would be a hell of a fight, but I'd still have Kos winning this one.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

I don't know what a motivated or unmotivated Penn is anymore tbh. 

Kos the wrestler would win no doubt, Kos the take you down in the 3rd rounds final minute would lose.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

I say no, cuz this is the fight Kos needs to spark his career. His career is waning...

Why does BJ need this...he doesn't need this fight. He pretty much beat Fitch in my mind. Maia vs BJ would be very interesting. 

PS: I really wonder if BJ can make it to 145...ahah.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

BJ should win.


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## mattandbenny (Aug 2, 2007)

Meh, something just doesn't massivly interest me about this fight. Think BJ would win a close decision with the better boxing. If Kos had a good gameplan and wrestled him a lot against the fence the first round or 2, then he would probably win. 

Would rather see BJ come back and fight someone like Rory MacDonald at WW or Nate Diaz at LW.


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## luckbox (Feb 12, 2010)

BJ by RNC.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

... damn right you said yes, you fecking idiot.


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## The Best Around (Oct 18, 2011)

Great fight if this happens. Kos is one of my favorites and Penn is always interesting to watch. I'd go with Kos on this one. I'd rather Penn go back to LW because maybe one day Edgar will stop holding the division hostage and there would be some new fights for Penn.


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

bra? as in brassiere?

learn to spell BRO! goddamnit.....


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## Jags (Aug 7, 2010)

It would be a good fight but I can see it now and it would be Kos getting the takedown to take it to a decision.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

B.J. Penn at WW = LOSS


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## ProdigyPenn (Sep 9, 2011)

BJ Penn is no doubt one of the most talented fighter in the UFC. 

He surprised Fitch with his gameplan in the first round and prove that he is a better fighter than Nick Diaz in the first round. Notice something? His recent performance at the WW show that his cardio can only last him for one round. 

If he accept this match, Kos will simply wrestle him to a decision. If Penn wants to return, please do it at 155 division. If not, I rather not see him back. 

And this is coming from a big Penn fan.


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## Ludinator (Mar 15, 2012)

ProdigyPenn said:


> BJ Penn is no doubt one of the most talented fighter in the UFC.
> 
> He surprised Fitch with his gameplan in the first round and prove that he is a better fighter than Nick Diaz in the first round. Notice something? His recent performance at the WW show that his cardio can only last him for one round.
> 
> ...


How did bj show nick he was the better fighter exactly?


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

BJ's destroying his record...

He simply can't compete at the top level at 170 lbs, it'll be a draw or Koscheck will squeak out a decision.


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

If Kos tries to stand with BJ he is going to get picked apart. If he goes to his wrestling he would win a boring UD. I can see Kos taking BJ down, but not doing much after that.


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## lolwut (Apr 26, 2012)

this is silly. and kind of an insult to kos and also to penn. 

its basically randy v coleman. 

i dont believe that penn is capable of destroying what he represented. but he can sure arm the haters and hurt his own brain with fights like this.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

hellholming said:


> bra? as in brassiere?
> 
> learn to spell BRO! goddamnit.....


 its a Haiwain reference, the always say brah instead of bro.



Ludinator said:


> How did bj show nick he was the better fighter exactly?


Besides landing the better shots taking him down and taking his back?


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## hellholming (Jun 13, 2009)

Toxic said:


> its a Haiwain reference, the always say brah instead of bro.


so?

should still be spelled the same.


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## evzbc (Oct 11, 2006)

BJ Penn retires on national television then the UFC _offers _him to Kos?

Dicks!

After all he's done for the UFC, if he _feels _like it, he should be able to call out whoever he wants, not vice versa.

Imho


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

What an awful fight. BJ is irrelevant now and should stay retired, and Koscheck is never going to be a champion. Koscheck needs to stay in his role as gatekeeper and fight up-and-comers like he did with Hendricks.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

> Former UFC Lightweight and Welterweight champion B.J. Penn is apparently not interested in facing long-time Welterweight contender Josh Koscheck in the Octagon anytime soon. Bloody Elbow reported earlier today that Koscheck tweeted he had accepted an offer from the UFC to face Penn and was awaiting the mercurial Hawaiian's answer.
> 
> Well he won't have to wait anymore. Penn took to Twitter himself:
> 
> ...


Guess we can forget about this one. And it seems a certain Hawaiian has seen that video of Koscheck's house. :thumb02:


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

Thanks God.... BJ just keep enjoying life man. You've got nothing left to prove.


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## ASKREN4WIN (Jul 12, 2011)

My question is why would the UFC even mention this to Kos without asking BJ if he would take the fight or even consider taking the fight?


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## Ludinator (Mar 15, 2012)

Not really interested in seeing Penn back now.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Bad fight for BJ. Kos is a better wrestler than Hughes and if he can take BJ down, which I think he eventually will, then I don't see BJ standing back up. KOS GNP is nonexistent however so maybe BJ can be successful with a sub. Bad fight IMO overall though for BJ.



Toxic said:


> Besides landing the better shots taking him down and taking his back?


So basically you are saying he had a better round, which I agree with, but how does that make him a better fighter (key words here) considering he loss a lopsided decision? 

Are we now judging fighters by the first round while discounting the others? I guess Dan Henderson is a better fighter than Anderson Silva then.

Truth of the matter is if BJ/Diaz fight was a fight to the death with no rounds and no time limit Bj would have been put to rest, judging by that fight, so by what standard are we using "better fighter"?


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## rul3z (Jun 27, 2010)

Rauno said:


> Don't be scared Hawaiian, take the fight.


Scared? Lol

Kos, is just a punching bag (based on last performances)


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Soakked said:


> So basically you are saying he had a better round, which I agree with, but how does that make him a better fighter (key words here) considering he loss a lopsided decision?
> 
> Are we now judging fighters by the first round while discounting the others? I guess Dan Henderson is a better fighter than Anderson Silva then.
> 
> Truth of the matter is if BJ/Diaz fight was a fight to the death with no rounds and no time limit Bj would have been put to rest, judging by that fight, so by what standard are we using "better fighter"?


No but I think the fact that when they were both fresh BJ clearly was the better fighter illustrates he is more skilled, Diaz only came back to win the latter rounds because BJ showed up unmotivated and lacked the conditioning to continue the same for 2 more rounds. Diaz may have been the better fighter that night because he was in shape but BJ is clearly the more skilled fighter and if he was motivated he would have dominated that fight.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Rauno said:


> I don't know what a motivated or unmotivated Penn is anymore tbh.


Word.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Toxic said:


> No but I think the fact that when they were both fresh BJ clearly was the better fighter illustrates he is more skilled, Diaz only came back to win the latter rounds because BJ showed up unmotivated and lacked the conditioning to continue the same for 2 more rounds. Diaz may have been the better fighter that night because he was in shape but BJ is clearly the more skilled fighter and if he was motivated he would have dominated that fight.


But that has been the story throughout his career hasn't it? When BJ wins, he dominates, when he loses he loses because of lack of motivation. I doubt anyone will deny that BJ Penn is an enormous talent, but that fact that people believe that he is almost unstoppable if motivated or well trained is frankly misinformed judging by his fight history. It's a cop-out really, one that makes him impossible to lose in the minds of his more rabid fans.

I consider myself a big fan but I don't fool myself into thinking it's a training issue or lack of motivation issue. It's a BJ Penn issue, it's a mental issue, and a personal issue. And it's an issue which should get judged as a whole when judging him as a fighter. BJ Penn isn't 16-8 but 24-0 if he were motivated, he's 16-8 period.

It is as much an attribute (a negative one) as lack of chin, lack of heart, lack of size, lack of mental stability or lack of anything else is to any other fighter, so why we judge him differently?

Nick Diaz is a better fighter, that fight proved that. BJ Penn is potentially, at least most of the time, the most talented fighter in the ring with whoever he gets in there with. That's why he was considered P4P for so many years. But is he a better fighter than Nick Diaz, at least at this point? No.


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## ashokjr (Oct 15, 2006)

amoosenamedhank said:


> Thanks God.... BJ just keep enjoying life man. You've got nothing left to prove.


Not to appear like a jerk but what has be proved actually? I keep hearing this "greatest talent ever; best boxer ever; best BJJ ever" but I have never seen any of this in a fight. Sure he is good but defenitely not the greatest. There has been so many better fighters than him and so I am not sure where this comes from. Someone please enlighten me.

I know he got his black belt in 3 yrs but apart from that, what else is exceptional?


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## dsmjrv (Jan 27, 2010)

has BJ ever lost the first round of any fight? he is good even great but his lack of conditioning makes him look irrelevant in some of the last rounds of the fights he loses...

only at LW does he have even mediocre conditioning.. he may have been beat at LW but never looked bad


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## fenderman80 (Sep 12, 2006)

Rauno said:


> I don't know what a motivated or unmotivated Penn is anymore tbh.
> 
> Kos the wrestler would win no doubt, Kos the take you down in the 3rd rounds final minute would lose.


KOS would have to push the pace in this fight to get him down b/c BJ has great TDD. Otherwise BJ picks him apart on the feet. IMHO BJ has better chance of baiting KOS into a standup war b/c for some reason KOS thinks he's a pugilist now... It's probably what lost him the Hendricks fight.

I could def see BJ rocking him, take his back, and RNC to victory.


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## lolwut (Apr 26, 2012)

ashokjr said:


> Not to appear like a jerk but what has be proved actually? I keep hearing this "greatest talent ever; best boxer ever; best BJJ ever" but I have never seen any of this in a fight. Sure he is good but defenitely not the greatest. There has been so many better fighters than him and so I am not sure where this comes from. Someone please enlighten me.
> 
> I know he got his black belt in 3 yrs but apart from that, what else is exceptional?


need to have been watching mma pre 2006. he paved the way in 2 divisions.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Looks like what was left of BJ's "legacy" remains intact by refusing the Kos fight, had disaster written all over it for Penn. Kos should be given someone who factors in the WW top-10, a position BJ hasn't been able to surpass in a long time.


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## amoosenamedhank (Sep 2, 2009)

ashokjr said:


> Not to appear like a jerk but what has be proved actually? I keep hearing this "greatest talent ever; best boxer ever; best BJJ ever" but I have never seen any of this in a fight. Sure he is good but defenitely not the greatest. There has been so many better fighters than him and so I am not sure where this comes from. Someone please enlighten me.
> 
> I know he got his black belt in 3 yrs but apart from that, what else is exceptional?


You read about 20 layers too deep into my post, man. You will never catch me saying BJ Penn is the best at anything (at least not today's version). He was a good fighter, he'll make the UFC HOF. I think the sport has passed him by and he's got nothing left to offer or prove. 

Money was never an issue for him, so I think he should retire and enjoy life while he's still relatively young.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Penn was and still is very skilled. 

Difference is he was a young kid with nothing to lose back then. He loved to fight. And he could get by without training as hard as many. Today you have to train 100% just to compete. And I just don't think he is up for the challenge anymore. 

I do think a young Penn in today's game could still hold a title at 155. He was explosive, his TDD was amazing, his will to win was there. Now he is much slower and he just doesn't want to gut out the tough wins.

He's has had a strange career really. Not many guys have that combo of boxing and BJJ and TDD. Not many held titles in 2 different weight classes in the UFC. Him and Randy is all I believe? Not many could look so good and then so bad. 

I think he did what he could to get to the top and once he was kicked off the top of the mountain he just doesn't have another run left in him mentally.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

ashokjr said:


> Not to appear like a jerk but what has be proved actually? I keep hearing this "greatest talent ever; best boxer ever; best BJJ ever" but I have never seen any of this in a fight. Sure he is good but defenitely not the greatest. There has been so many better fighters than him and so I am not sure where this comes from. Someone please enlighten me.
> 
> I know he got his black belt in 3 yrs but apart from that, what else is exceptional?


What else is exceptional? 13 finishes in 16 wins. Former lightweight and welterweight champion. Wins over a prime Jens Pulver, prime Takanori Gomi and pretty much dominated lightweight until Frankie Edgar came along. He is also a world champion in BJJ. Pretty sure he was the first non Brazilian to accomplish that at the black belt level as well.


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## H33LHooK (Jul 13, 2011)

dsmjrv said:


> has BJ ever lost the first round of any fight? he is good even great but his lack of conditioning makes him look irrelevant in some of the last rounds of the fights he loses...
> 
> only at LW does he have even mediocre conditioning.. he may have been beat at LW but never looked bad


BJ/GSP II?


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## suffersystem (Feb 4, 2007)

I really hope BJ just stays retired. Sorry, but I just have no thing for the guy. Yes, he is a legend and will go down in the UFC HoF. I just think he is pissing away his talents and will continue to lose or sqeak out UD. The BJ every loved is gone. Of course this is just my opinion, I just have not seen the BJ everybody else sees in a very long time.


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## ashokjr (Oct 15, 2006)

HitOrGetHit said:


> What else is exceptional? 13 finishes in 16 wins. Former lightweight and welterweight champion. Wins over a prime Jens Pulver, prime Takanori Gomi and pretty much dominated lightweight until Frankie Edgar came along. He is also a world champion in BJJ. Pretty sure he was the first non Brazilian to accomplish that at the black belt level as well.


Agreed but here is the thing. He does have a high percentage of loses in his record. Goes far to show that even though talent is good, there is simply no substitute for hard work.


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## 2zwudz (Apr 9, 2007)

BJ does not need this fight. Koscheck needs to stir things up to get himself back in the peoples eyes and that is what I see. Stir things up with Leben...Joshie boy. He'll fight ya!!!!


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

ashokjr said:


> Agreed but here is the thing. He does have a high percentage of loses in his record. Goes far to show that even though talent is good, there is simply no substitute for hard work.


I wasn't commenting on his motivation or lacktherof. I was responding to the idea that he isnt proven or hasn't done many exceptional things.

And he has zero losses to anyone that isn't at the top. Nick Diaz, Frankie Edgar, GSP, Lyoto Machida, Matt Hughes (Prime) and Jens Pulver (Prime) are the only people who have beaten him.

All I am saying is that BJ Penn has already proven himself and to imply that he doesn't have many "exceptional" achievements is pretty ridiculous.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

ashokjr said:


> Agreed but here is the thing. He does have a high percentage of loses in his record. Goes far to show that even though talent is good, there is simply no substitute for hard work.


Penn has achieved more in this sport than most people even dream of in their respective careers.

He's a two division title holder at 2 weight classes above where he could and should be fighting, he went the distance with Machida at heavyweight (Machida weighed 225 in that fight), and has defended his title more than anyone in the division at LW, and is considered the most dominant 155er in the sports history at this point by many.

Out of this 26 fights, 11 of them are title fights and out of his last 12 fights, 9 of them were title fights. His losses mean little, he only fights champions and #1 contenders.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

ashokjr said:


> Agreed but here is the thing. He does have a high percentage of loses in his record. Goes far to show that even though talent is good, there is simply no substitute for hard work.


When BJ was working hard he was one of the absolute best in the world, and this wasn't that long ago. He completely tore through Stevenson, Sherk, Florian, and Sanchez and quite a few felt like he beat Edgar the first time.

His motivation certainly did hurt his career though, if the Penn from 2008 and 2009 was still fighting I don't have a doubt in my mind he'd be the Champion to this day. That BJ was a savage.


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## TheOldAssassin (Sep 17, 2010)

Maybe it's just as well this fight fizzled, from Koscheck's perspective: A while back he was talking about moving up to MW - and what's the bet that he will be doing a lot more than talking about it if Anderson Silva does lose to Chael Sonnen this time around?

And don't even get me started about which LHWs will move down to MW if AS loses!


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## Leakler (Sep 23, 2010)

Glad this fight isn't happening, I want BJ to stay retired. He's one of my all time faves, and i'd probably give this to Koscheck (as much as it pains me to say this).


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