# why are they calling cain mexican



## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

i watch the advertisements and it looks like they are trying to play this off as Mexico vs USA. they show a mexican flag for cain and an american flag for brock. also sayin cain could be the first mexican champ but cain isnt mexican. He is american he was born in america lives in america and trains in america. His father was from mexico but he is not.


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## BondageGuy (Oct 9, 2010)

well.. sometimes i like to say im german.. even though ive lived in america my entire life and was born here 

when someone asks though I always say american.. because thats what I really am.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

BondageGuy said:


> well.. sometimes i like to say im german.. even though ive lived in america my entire life and was born here
> 
> when someone asks though I always say american.. because thats what I really am.


agreed i am an irish-american but the importance of my irish heritage is nowhere near as important as my american.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

heritage....simply put....


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

coldcall420 said:


> heritage....simply put....


calling him mexican is still a false statement though isnt it?


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

americanfighter said:


> calling him mexican is still a false statement though isnt it?


meaning he claims it as his....


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## BondageGuy (Oct 9, 2010)

can i claim to be french?

i mean ive always wanted to be french, and being german in all... my heritage is.. uh so-so.. especially around the 1940s


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

coldcall420 said:


> meaning he claims it as his....


well look at it this way say he does beat brock and they call him the first mexican champ. Then later down the road someone from mexico who was born and lives there wins the title. Shouldn't that person be called the first mexican champ and not cain.

also if cain loves mexico so much and so dearly wants to be mexican instead of american then he should go live there.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Dunno...all i know is Cain isn't going to be able to say that after hew fights Brock....


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

coldcall420 said:


> Dunno...all i know is Cain isn't going to be able to say that after hew fights Brock....


i hope your right at first i liked cain but the more i hear about this crap the more i hope brock smashes his face in.


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## BondageGuy (Oct 9, 2010)

americanfighter said:


> well look at it this way say he does beat brock and they call him the first mexican champ. Then later down the road someone from mexico who was born and lives there wins the title. Shouldn't that person be called the first mexican champ and not cain.
> 
> also if cain loves mexico so much and so dearly wants to be mexican instead of american then he should go live there.


That's why I almost never say "im german" when a foreigner asks, I don't even have citizenship in germany.. I mean I've been there but I've never lived there.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

BondageGuy said:


> That's why I almost never say "im german" when a foreigner asks, I don't even have citizenship in germany.. I mean I've been there but I've never lived there.


right of course cain doesnt want to actually live in mexico he just wants to claim he is mexican and not american for some reason.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

FOLLOWED BY
























WHICH IS FOLLOWED BY


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

not mad i just think its stupid.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

americanfighter said:


> calling him mexican is still a false statement though isnt it?


No, he is mexican by heritage. You're assuming that he can only represent the country on his birth certificate which is preposterous. He feels a strong connection to that heritage and he has chosen to represent it. What's the problem again? That you love Amurrrrica so much you can't imagine anyone would appreciate any other part of their heritage?


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> calling him mexican is still a false statement though isnt it?


First of all, I find it pretty funny that the user "AmericanFighter" is making a thread about this. 

This has more to do with what Cain represents, embraces, and accepts. The guy has Brown Pride tattooed on his freaking chest for everyone to see when he fights...your argument is straw thin, he's not a native born mexican, but he doesn't need to be.


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## Life B Ez (Jan 23, 2010)

I keep wondering why they are saying first hw champ. Has there been a Mexican champ in another division in the ufc I am forgetting?


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

HexRei said:


> No, he is mexican by heritage. You're assuming that he can only represent the country on his birth certificate which is preposterous.


no by citizenship, where you live, and or birth. well answer three 3 questions that define what country Cain belongs to. 

Where was he born 
where does he live 
where is he registered as a citizen 

Mexico is not the correct answer to any of those questions. The correct answer to all 3 questions is USA.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

americanfighter said:


> no by citizenship, where you live, and or birth. well answer three 3 questions that define what country Cain belongs to.
> 
> Where was he born
> where does he live
> ...


What does that have to do with what heritage he chooses to represent? As if a location on a document dictates one's cultural heritage.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

americanfighter said:


> no by citizenship, where you live, and or birth. well answer three 3 questions that define what country Cain belongs to.
> 
> Where was he born
> where does he live
> ...



Hugh jackman lives in america, so i guess that means he can't call himself Australian anymore....


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

guy incognito said:


> Hugh jackman lives in america, so i guess that means he can't call himself Australian anymore....


what about the other two questions? he has duel citizenship doesnt he? 

just like the basketball player Genobli can call himself an Argentinean because he was born there and has citizenship there. however he can say he is american because he lives here and is citizen here right?

cain isnt a citizen there doesn't live there and wasn't born there. He has no connection to mexico except through family.


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## Can.Opener (Apr 8, 2009)

Maybe we can refer to Cain as the 'mexican hand grenade' and avoid any confusion. Oh wait..


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

cuz the ufc hypes the crap outta things, who cares.

Cain gonna rock the Mexico flag when he wins like Tito did back in the day and the haters are gonna whine some more.


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## BondageGuy (Oct 9, 2010)

HexRei said:


> No, he is mexican by heritage. You're assuming that he can only represent the country on his birth certificate which is preposterous. He feels a strong connection to that heritage and he has chosen to represent it. What's the problem again? That you love Amurrrrica so much you can't imagine anyone would appreciate any other part of their heritage?


I'm so french.

I mean look at me and the lifestyle I choose to embrace. I enjoy women as a romantic, I drink lots of alcohol (even wine) and I even smoke cigarettes after sex. I'm practically saying "bonjour" with my life style! :thumb02:

edit: @ that person that asked, technically tito ortiz was the first hispanic champion.

re-edit: what about frank shamrock? oh and ricco rodriguez was hispanic... wait a minute.. he was the heavy weight champ at a time..

goddamn it the ufc is so full of shit


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

BondageGuy said:


> I'm so french.
> 
> I mean look at me and the lifestyle I choose to embrace. I enjoy women as a romantic, I drink lots of alcohol (even wine) and I even smoke cigarettes after sex. I'm practically saying "bonjour" with my life style! :thumb02:
> 
> ...


I'm not really sure what you're getting at here. I'm scottish in heritage but I wasn't really raised with scottish traditions- however if I had been, even in America, I'd probably feel justified repping my Scottish background. Cain was raised in a household with mexican traditions, his dad still doesn't speak great english. I don't get the idea of reducing one's entire upbringing and heritage to the words on their birth certificate, it makes no sense. Cain is as close as you can get to mexican without being born there.


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## Cabezone (Oct 14, 2010)

Cain is 1st gen American. He still has strong ties to Mexico. I don't like the "Brown Pride" tat tho, I'd have preferred he get a "Mexican Pride" one.


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

americanfighter said:


> i watch the advertisements and it looks like they are trying to play this off as Mexico vs USA. they show a mexican flag for cain and an american flag for brock. also sayin cain could be the first mexican champ but cain isnt mexican. He is american he was born in america lives in america and trains in america. His father was from mexico but he is not.


It's simple - to some people like CV, blood is thicker than what their passport says, ie their ethnicity is more important than their nationality. Not saying it's right or wrong, it just is.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Because they want Hispanics to buy the PPV.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Because they want Hispanics to buy the PPV.


probably


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

well its wrong in the sense that he isnt actually mexican, this is a fact, doesnt matter how much he wants to be mexican, he still wont be

i love the japanese culture...so if i get some japanese tattoos, do some ninja crap, draw a manga, use kimonos all the time and only eat japanese food can i be the first japanese HW champ in the UFC?...um...no... im still brazilian, doesnt matter if i want to be japanese, im still not and therefore im not the first japanese HW champ of the UFC

if some day an actual mexican gets a title shot in the UFC and actually becomes a HW champ then HE will be the true 1st mexican champion

cain can go in there with the flag and fight for mexico but at the end of the day hes american, he can represent mexico, no problem, especially if all of mexico is behind him, but its still wrong for the UFC to call him the 1st mexican HW champ, not wrong moraly but wrong technically


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Saying you are american or mexican doesn't really mean anything from the perspective you are getting at. You don't represent an arbitrary land mass, citizenship is a recognition by a government not a society or a culture. Cain to my knowledge hasn't denounced his citizenship so this affiliation he feels is obviously from a cultural and heritable standpoint. The UFC uses those flags because they are in the business of two men bludgeoning each other not the business of nuanced discussions about ethnicity and culture. 

America doesn't have real cultural consistencies outside of consumerism because of its size and diversity in not only ethnicity but weather, landscape, and wealth. So culture is developed and practiced on a far more regional basis here than in most countries.

You attack the validity of Cain being able to represent Mexico but how is Brock representing America when the way he was raised and lives represents a small minority of the people within the country. Cain probably has more in common from a cultural standpoint with more Mexicans living in Mexico than Brock does with Americans living in America.


Nationalism is ******* stupid, the end.


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## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

Cain barely looks Mexican and his dad even less.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

damn is every american like this, who gives a shite where he claims to be from, i buy that he has mexican heritage end of story its not like his saying hes asian when he clearly isn't


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## Liddellianenko (Oct 8, 2006)

oh for ****'s sake he's mexican-american. His ethnicity and culture is Mexican and his nationality is American. Both sides are correct /thread.


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## chosenFEW (Oct 25, 2009)

what is american actually? there really isn't an american "race" per se... america is a country built on emigration. so everyone from here way deep down in their family tree didn't really originate from here. the real originators are the natives and they're practically extinct.


IMO being American is more of a lifestyle than it is a race/culture. I believe this is how everyone should approach the "american culture"... it would definitely avoid a lot of confusion, like with people such as the thread creator... 

my 2 cents


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

...so they can tap into the Latino market and shake it down for a couple hundred thousand PPV buys...


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## ESPADA9 (Oct 13, 2006)

guy incognito said:


> Hugh jackman lives in america, so i guess that means he can't call himself Australian anymore....


What a corny comparison, by that rationale every country I VISIT I could claim as my “heritage” by default?

The reality is Cain had to LEARN Spanish, he was born in the USA as an AMERICAN, his parents immigrated from Mexico, for a better life, living wage, more personal freedom, opportunities, access to education, etc.

I take it you don’t have any relatives in Mexico or are innately familiar with Mexican culture (not the TV version).

The ethnic pride crap in the USA is politically motivated, I don’t want to get into it because I know it will get some of the kids on this site in an uproar but you don’t hear this crap in most other countries.

I have some tattoos that symbolize my Castilian Spanish ancestry (as a typical American I have other nationalities in my ethnic heritage) and I’m very familiar with my fathers family history, culture etc. But how can I be “proud” of something I didn’t determine?
I got my tattoos because I like my families unique history, not because I have any loyalty to a FOREIGN country.

I’m an American because I was born here; this country has given my all that I have (and earned) I feel blessed to have been born here.

I’ve been all over the world but there is no other country I would rather be from.
Perhaps because I’ve worked hard, achieved much (without ANY assistance) and have a stake in the game.

So brown pride (or black pride, etc) all you want, just don’t cry about segregation or “racism” because this idea that we should all be divided into “groups” determined by our ethnic heritage, religion, gender, income, education, etc is the VERY THING that creates segregation and racism.



footodors said:


> Cain barely looks Mexican and his dad even less.


His father looks Spanish to me, perhaps his mother has some mezzo-American Indian ancestry.

Cain isn’t much darker than I am (and I had blonde hair as a kid).



Liddellianenko said:


> oh for ****'s suck he's mexican-american. His ethnicity and culture is Mexican and his nationality is American. Both sides are correct /thread.


Mexican isn’t an ethnicity, in the USA there is a popular belief that Mexican is a race and Mexico has a homogenous population but nothing can be farther from the truth.

Mexico has anything from blacks with African ancestry to mezzo-American Indians (Aztec, Olmec, Toltec, Mayan, etc) to Irish, French, Spanish, Russian, even Asian and Jewish.

Remember the previous President of Mexico Vincente Fox? A “white” guy, 6’6” who was Irish and Spanish?


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

all im saying is who gives a shite, if someone says they are a different race than american doesnt mean you have to make a 4 page argument to whether he is or not


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

ESPADA9 said:


> Mexican isn’t an ethnicity, in the USA there is a popular belief that Mexican is a race and Mexico has a homogenous population but nothing can be farther from the truth.
> 
> Mexico has anything from blacks with African ancestry to mezzo-American Indians (Aztec, Olmec, Toltec, Mayan, etc) to Irish, French, Spanish, Russian, even Asian and Jewish.
> 
> Remember the previous President of Mexico Vincente Fox? A “white” guy, 6’6” who was Irish and Spanish?


American/USA isn't a race either. He's claiming a cultural heritage, not a racial or national identity. Get over it...


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

HexRei said:


> American/USA isn't a race either. He's claiming a cultural heritage, not a racial identity. Get over it.


yes thank you a moderator brings peace. unrelated but i bought a premium account 3 days ago and for some reason i havent got the mmembership yet???


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

His parents, grandparents were born in Mexico.
And i am pretty sure, they tried to raise Cain to be pround of his origins.
In general, mexicans/latinos are extremely proud of their roots.
Even though grew up in the US, i think he feels a very strong connection with Mexico. 
I don't see a problem in that.


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## Nefilim777 (Jun 24, 2009)

I'm mostly Irish but have part Ukrainian blood [I know, I'm a mutt], that aside I consider myself 100% Irish with Eastern European heritage, so if I won a belt I'd be Irish, not Ukrainian.


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

welcome to the sullied history of America's dealings with race and ethnicity

Wikipedia "One drop rule" and youll be in for a suprise :thumb02:

The reality is most non-white peoples of America are recognized by their non-white (ie. American) phenotypic features. This is only a complex issue for African-Americans, as they have a history slightly different than most other non-white ethnicities.

Look at Nam Phan...if most people saw him walking down the street they wouldnt say "hey, thats an American guy"...youd probably notice all this "typcial" Asian features and label him an Asian man....despite the fact he was born and raised in Orange County, California and has a valley accent.

American history


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

This thread is bullshit.

My parents are Cypriot. I was born in England. I talk English. I have a UK passport. I've spend my WHOLE life in the UK. I don't speak Greek very well at all. I am not a dual national.

BUT. I don't fecking look English. I look Greek Cypriot. If anybody asks me where I'm *from*... I reply Cyprus. Because, I know they are asking me because of how I *look*.

Cain calls himself Mexican. He looks Mexican. He wears the Mexican flag. He is aligned to the country via blood and history. If you don't like it, mind your own fecking business and focus on the important stuff: How good a fecking fighter Cain is.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> This thread is bullshit.
> 
> My parents are Cypriot. I was born in England. I talk English. I have a UK passport. I've spend my WHOLE life in the UK. I don't speak Greek very well at all. I am not a dual national.
> 
> ...


praise the lord!!! sorry got caught up in the moment


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## Admz (Sep 15, 2009)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Because they want Hispanics to buy the PPV.


...and there it is.

It seriously took 3 pages to answer such an obvious question?


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

Cain is a United States citizen. If he has dual citizenship then he is Mexican-American. If he wants to live in the United States, enjoy the freedoms and opportunities of his United States citizenship, enjoy the benefits of United States public school systems and our colleges, train wrestling and MMA in the United States etc.... He should pay homage to the United States (in my opinion).

If he wants to call himself a Mexican and run around with the Mexican flag then he should really consider why his parents left Mexico. Evidentally it wasn't all that awesome. Once that is considered and he still wants to identify himself primarily as a Mexican..... he should go live there.

I know it is fashionable to hate on the United States and the United States has its problems but the reality is for his parents it was the land of opportunity; and for that he should be grateful and show homage. If he wants to wave the flag that represented the land that his parents obviously viewed as poverty-stricken and destitue so he can garner a little attention and feel special... He's an idiot.

But regardless, he is still a damn good fighter.


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## TheCleeM (Jul 9, 2008)

footodors said:


> Cain barely looks Mexican and his dad even less.


oh. well that solves it then.
he's deemed "american" because hes not "mexican-looking" enough for some people...



holy shit.


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## Rachmunas (May 15, 2009)

It's kind of like When Dan Hardy said Marcus Davis is a wanna be Irishman!


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Fieos said:


> Cain is a United States citizen. If he has dual citizenship then he is Mexican-American. If he wants to live in the United States, enjoy the freedoms and opportunities of his United States citizenship, enjoy the benefits of United States public school systems and our colleges, train wrestling and MMA in the United States etc.... He should pay homage to the United States (in my opinion).
> 
> If he wants to call himself a Mexican and run around with the Mexican flag then he should really consider why his parents left Mexico. Evidentally it wasn't all that awesome. Once that is considered and he still wants to identify himself primarily as a Mexican..... he should go live there.
> 
> ...



There is a difference between the living conditions of a country and the culture of the race.

Stupid dumbass.


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## Rachmunas (May 15, 2009)

Maybe Cain should walk to the cage with the Mexican/American flag like Tito Ortiz? That would solve this thread! :thumb02:

Maybe be like Marcus Davis who wears a kilt to the cage because he has family from Ireland!


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

guy incognito said:


> There is a difference between the living conditions of a country and the culture of the race.
> 
> Stupid dumbass.


It can be easily argued that the culture and living conditions influence and are influenced by each other. Regardless, the flag represents the country. If he wants to honor his culture then he should honor his family name and not the country his family left behind.


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## Term (Jul 28, 2009)

Let's not forget Cain, I am sure, has nothing to do with the advertisements you see. His tattoo says brown pride which means, to me anyway, he is proud of his Hispanic background, not Mexico. As others pointed out the UFC can call him the first Mexican champion all they want, but technically it won't be true. Then of coarse there is the little matter of beating Brock before that discussion really is relevant.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Fieos said:


> It can be easily argued that the culture and living conditions influence and are influenced by each other. Regardless, the flag represents the country. If he wants to honor his culture then he should honor his family name and not the country his family left behind.


family doesn't represent culture, race/country does. where do you think culture comes from


by your logic Italian-Americans should stop making italian food because they don't live in italy and should stick to making hotdogs because they are in america and can't care about there roots.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

I agree completely. If he somehow manages to beat Brock he will be another American champion. It would be a disservice to Mexican fighters to call him otherwise.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Fieos said:


> I agree completely. If he somehow manages to beat Brock he will be another American champion. It would be a disservice to Mexican fighters to call him otherwise.




Oh yeah, harcore mexican fighting fans/fighters don't really care for anybody who isn't a born and raised Mexico but he can still care for his culture.

All i am trying to say is you can't hate on him for loving and respecting it.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

guy incognito said:


> family doesn't represent culture, race/country does. where do you think culture comes from
> 
> 
> by your logic Italian-Americans should stop making italian food because they don't live in italy and should stick to making hotdogs because they are in america and can't care about there roots.


That isn't what I'm saying. If Cain wants to eat burritos all day long I really don't care. I'm saying why should he wave a Mexican flag when he was born in California and went to school in Iowa and Arizona? If you want to argue it his culture; his culture is obviously Hispanic/American. He isn't Mexican.


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## Clivey (May 28, 2007)

yeah im kinda hoping he gets knocked out, slowly losing respect for all the people from AKA, what kind of guy gets a 'brown pride' tattoo? imagine brock had a 'white pride' one we'd never hear the end of it!


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Sekou said:


> welcome to the sullied history of America's dealings with race and ethnicity
> 
> Wikipedia "One drop rule" and youll be in for a suprise :thumb02:
> 
> ...


Bingo!



Soojooko said:


> This thread is bullshit.
> 
> My parents are Cypriot. I was born in England. I talk English. I have a UK passport. I've spend my WHOLE life in the UK. I don't speak Greek very well at all. I am not a dual national.
> 
> ...


Another person who gets it :thumbsup:


TBH I dont really see how any American over the age of 12 doesnt understand how race and ethnicity works in this country. If you are non-white or have a foreign sounding name then you are from somewhere else. Every minority knows this, white Americans know it too but for some reason some get mad when you claim your heritage as YOURS. The same exact heritage they use to identify you in every facet of life. 

Its almost like you want people to pretend to be something you will never let them be.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

vilify said:


> Bingo!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So I'm confused now. I called a US Citizen a US Citizen and recognized his Hispanic culture, and I don't 'get it'? That seems pretty to be a pretty self-limiting perspective.


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

coldcall420 said:


> Dunno...all i know is Cain isn't going to be able to say that after hew fights Brock....


Can i get a Amen?


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Fieos said:


> Cain is a United States citizen. If he has dual citizenship then he is Mexican-American. If he wants to live in the United States, enjoy the freedoms and opportunities of his United States citizenship, enjoy the benefits of United States public school systems and our colleges, train wrestling and MMA in the United States etc.... He should pay homage to the United States (in my opinion).
> 
> If he wants to call himself a Mexican and run around with the Mexican flag then he should really consider why his parents left Mexico. Evidentally it wasn't all that awesome. Once that is considered and he still wants to identify himself primarily as a Mexican..... he should go live there.
> 
> ...


I read this post.



Fieos said:


> So I'm confused now. I called a US Citizen a US Citizen and recognized his Hispanic culture, and I don't 'get it'? That seems pretty to be a pretty self-limiting perspective.


I dont think you get it. Are you suggesting that he should be ashamed of his heritage because Mexico is "poverty-stricken and destitute". Would it be okay to wave the flag if Mexico had a booming economy? :confused02:

Bottom-line It doesnt matter where he was born or what opportunities America has given him, He is a Mexican American. He knows this and so do you.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

What a ridiculous thread and im shocked to see some of the replies. Sookoojoo hits the nail on the end a couple of pages back.


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

Scenario 1

You are <insert your nationality> and move to <insert any foreign country> for a great job opportunity and marry a local girl and your son is born in this country, is your son not <insert your nationality> ?


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

blood is alot thicker than some fake line drawn in the sand.


i dont understand why so many of you cant see or feel that and if you dont, why you cant just accept it and move on??


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

> "There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.... A hyphenated American is not an American at all... Americanism is a matter of the spirit, and of the soul...The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans...each preserving its separate nationality.... The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans.... There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American."Theodore Roosevelt





> "In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people." - Theodore Roosevelt


 A great American


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

room for one language?

yea, he must be American, close minded thinking.

why do you want everybody to assimilate?? that would make the world (and America) a boring place.

The thing that made America great was the diversity, not conformity.

I also notice more and more ppl are getting on the Lesnar wagon as they see more and more of Cain and his hyped up Mexican image....


why is that???

USA!! USA!! USA!! like i hear from the classy fans at some UFC events??


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

oldfan said:


> A great American



Well really if you're going to go by that, then the only people who should just be called Americans are Native-Americans.


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## hommage1985 (Apr 22, 2007)

americanfighter said:


> i watch the advertisements and it looks like they are trying to play this off as Mexico vs USA. they show a mexican flag for cain and an american flag for brock. also sayin cain could be the first mexican champ but cain isnt mexican. He is american he was born in america lives in america and trains in america. His father was from mexico but he is not.


UFC's attempt to steal boxings hispanic market.


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## recanizegame (Dec 14, 2009)

I laugh to myself everytime I see this hyped up melodramatic BS on tv.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

vilify said:


> I read this post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah, I understand. Yeah I was chasing two different points before coffee and trying unsuccessfully to tie them together.

I'm saying his Hispanic ethnicity/culture can/should definitely be celebrated. I'm saying that has nothing to do with Mexico. Mexico was the country his parents left. Hispanic influences are strong in California and Arizona and the like. He can be a proud Hispanic waving the American flag as the United States is where he was born and thrives.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> room for one language?
> 
> yea, he must be American, close minded thinking.



Is it your opinion that all American road signs, menus, newspapers and school books should be printed in German,Russian, Italian, Spanish, Portugese, Chinese (all 7+) Japanese Korean, etc... or is there one language you would put above the others?



guy incognito said:


> Well really if you're going to go by that, then the only people who should just be called Americans are *Native-Americans*.










[/URL] GIFSoup[/IMG]

as usual


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

Spanish should be an official language in the USA aswell and ppl should be more accepting of differences instead of finding ways to point them out and eliminate them.

You can love America and still love your ancestry, your culture, your heritage.

You can wave the Mexican flag and still be a proud American.


You can speak another language and still call America your home.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> Spanish should be an official language in the USA aswell and ppl should be more accepting of differences instead of finding ways to point them out and eliminate them.
> 
> *You can love America and still love your ancestry, your culture, your heritage.*
> 
> ...


 A reasonable opinion and I especially agree with the bold part.

Teddy's point (and mine) was that America needs Americans. Your country needs you. If there is another country that you put before America(hyphenated Americans) then that's Probably where you should be. Being proud.

As for languages. Why not German or Italian since More Americans Trace their heritage to those countries than to any Spanish speaking countries?


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

because Spanish is the 2nd most widely used language in the USA.

More widely used than say French in Canada.


Giving respect and equality to a large number of your citizens shouldnt be deemed a horrible thing.


Whether you make spanish official or not, its there, go to Texas, Cali or Arizona and you can live your entire life not learning one word of english.

Does that make those ppl less American?? If they pay their taxes, live a clean life and contribute to society, why should anything else matter??


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

It really started to annoy me when watching Primetime, we get it, Cain Velasquez is Mexican. They had to put it every sentence.


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

Rauno, with as soft spoken as Cain is, i think they needed to make a big deal of something.


Especially when he has a huge "BROWN PRIDE" tat on his chest. Its kind of the 1st thing you notice lol


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

> because Spanish is the 2nd most widely used language in the USA.


 Because the other emigrants learned English.



> Does that make those ppl less American??


 In my opinion, yes. It says "we are not here to be Americans, we are here to be (fill in the blank) living in America.

Again I ask why would you discriminate against all of the Germans and Italians who risked their lives to come here?


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

Glad to see Alizio is back to spreading his opinions on how great hispanic culture is:thumbsdown:


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## E Lit Er Ate (Aug 28, 2010)

oldfan said:


> Because the other emigrants learned English.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 the other immigrants werent moving to land that was once Spanish owned, with spanish names and tons of spanish ppl so there was no need to learn a new language, everybody spoke spanish.

its exactly what the brits did for the french in Quebec, let them keep their own culture, language and heritage and still be Canadian.

Ppl never question whether GSP is a Quebecois 1st and not a Canadian??

why not?? his tat is of Fleur De Lis not the Canadian flag.

because we are accepting of french ppl and their culture and you guys seem to not be accepting of mexicans and theirs.


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## Leed (Jan 3, 2010)

What does nationality have to do with anything? It's all in the family, about race etc. Just because I was born in a made-up, invisible border, which happens to have a name, what was made up X years ago, means I have to be live by that, not what my parents are, not what type of society I lived in all my life...?


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

This thread is quickly turning from a debate of diverse opinions to a philosophical travesty...


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> why not?? his tat is of Fleur De Lis not the Canadian flag.
> 
> because we are accepting of french ppl and their culture and you guys seem to not be accepting of mexicans and theirs.


Actually why for me is because no two men from the same country have been hyped up so much about their different ethnicity. I mean come one are we going back to the 60s where it was black vs white and later times that was use to get people hyped up except now its white vs mexican?


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## PheelGoodInc (Jul 23, 2009)

Cain is proud of his heritage, no question about it. It does kinda piss me off that they don't call him Mexican-American when the dude was born and raised in the US.... not to mention everything he learned about fighting / wrestling was in the US too.

The UFC wants to draw in the Hispanic buy. It's really as simple as that. Even if they make themselves look like idiots to do it. The sad part is it will probably work.


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## footodors (Aug 26, 2007)

Wonder if Brock had "White Pride" tatted to his chest, if there would be as much understanding.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

All banter aside it really does 'feel' to me that different nationalities/cultures/ethnicities/genders can celebrate their differences, but if the Caucasian European male is proud... He's just a racist/sexist bastard. Thoughts?

And no, Brock would be vilified much more than he is currently.


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

footodors said:


> Wonder if Brock had "White Pride" tatted to his chest, if there would be as much understanding.


Wow. What an amazingly deep, insightful and original comment. I never ever considered that before. Wow. I'm a changed man. Not.


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## LIC (Oct 19, 2008)

osmium said:


> Nationalism is ******* stupid, the end.


Good point well made sir.

Whilst we are on the subject, what is a MMA Patriot?


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Fieos said:


> All banter aside it really does 'feel' to me that different nationalities/cultures/ethnicities/genders can celebrate their differences, but if the Caucasian European male is proud... He's just a racist/sexist bastard. Thoughts



An ugly, obvious truth that is ignored by all.

Before you all decide to label me a racist too, you know nothing about me. I'll give you a little insight.

I'm as white (fair skinned, fair haired) as they come. My ancestors probably knew Brocks.

However, the people I love most in this world, who mean more to me than anything, who I couldn't live without, are all very brown. They trace their roots straight back to the Aztecs.

I can say with extreme confidence that no one on this forum or anywhere else has more reason to love illegal Mexican emigrants more than me.


That in no way changes my opinion that the principles Mr. Roosevelt talked about 100 years ago were true then and are still true today.

If you are 2nd or 3rd generation, be proud that your parents/grandparents made you American.

As ugly as it is. "us against them" has been the dominant theme in all of human history. It has defined this world. It is the reason there are borders and languages.

In my opinion humanity will not realize there is only one race (human) and accept true brotherhood until we find some real aliens to hate. I feel certain that when the insectivoids start beaming down from their spaceships, the funny looking, funny talking folks you didn't really want in your neighborhood will instantly become your most beloved brothers.


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## Ares Caesar (Aug 13, 2008)

oldfan said:


> An ugly, obvious truth that is ignored by all.
> 
> Before you all decide to label me a racist too, you know nothing about me. I'll give you a little insight.
> 
> ...


This

/end thread

We're all part of the "HUMAN RACE"... even worse we'll probably be just as racist to any aliens who do land on our planet (if they even dare, seeing how we treat our own kind because of meager skin pigment differences)



And yes, I ABSOLUTELY despise the fact that the UFC is making it a Mexico vs America (or simply trying to hype up the Mexican buys) fight. These are just two of the best heavyweight fighters on the planet, nothing more needs to be said in terms of hype.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

Brock loves Mexicans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDmdf46JZZ0&p=681A50FC4F2FF4A4&playnext=1&index=27

I'd like to see Cain dance that well.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

oldfan said:


> A great American


Well that is nothing but rambling incompetence and ignorance. Being in the united states gives you all rights outside of those explicitly reserved for citizens like the right to vote even if you aren't here legally. The ******* formation of the country was based on the idea that *all* people are to have those rights not only the ones some idiot decides should have them. 

I wonder if his dumb ass refused to use translators when talking with foreign leaders and diplomats in america, I doubt it. You realize he was advocating discrimination against everyone in the world including american citizens who weren't his ideal of what an american should be. The second paragraph is a harangue on the virtues of fascism.


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## Bknmax (Mar 16, 2008)

Ufc 121 we will find out if Cain is a Mexican or a Mexicant:thumbsup:


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## FatFreeMilk (Jan 22, 2010)

American, like being British is (obviously) a nationality not an ethnicity. For most Americans they don't have much cultural influences their ancestors did. 

I see the USA as a place where anyone can be anything they want/believe to be and have the two way relationship that being a citizen of the US entails. Theirs nothing wrong Cain, he just prefer his Mexican roots while living there. 
Like me, I'm British but don't consider myself a true Brit or completely Kurdish either.


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## RudeBoySes (Aug 9, 2010)

americanfighter said:


> i watch the advertisements and it looks like they are trying to play this off as Mexico vs USA. they show a mexican flag for cain and an american flag for brock. also sayin cain could be the first mexican champ but cain isnt mexican. He is american he was born in america lives in america and trains in america. His father was from mexico but he is not.



his heritage is Mexican..
you're making it sound as if it's bad to be Mexican..

every good story needs a plot..

i see nothing wrong with this..


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

i think every1 just missed the point here, the UFC saying cain will be the 1st mexican champ is the problem, because hes not mexican

unless he has dual citizenship, in that case then its ok...dont know if he has though...im brazilian but i have a spanish citizenship so im also spanish even though i never lived there

anyway, i really dont think any1 is saying its wrong for cain to call himself mexican or to be proud of his mexican culture, i just thought the whole point here was UFC trying to pass cain off as the 1st potential UFC mexican HW

cain has done nothing wrong and its obvious, if he wants to represent mexico, come in with the flag, hell who are we to deny him that?

im just thinking that if cain doesnt have citizenship, then what will the UFC do when the real 1st mexican HW champ arrives?


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## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

Its all bull crap. Its okay for him to have a Brown Pride tattoo but if Brock had a *********** tattoo then he would be a racist or bigot. Im German, Irish, and Cherokee.....I was born in America, Im American.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

RudeBoySes said:


> his heritage is Mexican..
> you're making it sound as if it's bad to be Mexican..


i never said it was bad to be of mexican heritage they are just making it seem like its a mexican and not a american. They are selling this fight as Mexico vs USA which in reality its USA vs USA. 

like i said earlier for instance he is an american citizen if he wins he should be seen as another american winning not the first mexican champ. IF someone who is a mexican citizen wins the title then they are the first mexican champ not cain. cain is brown but he is American not Mexican.

also as i said before are we starting to go back to the 60s and 70s where it was white vs black except now its mexican decent vs white?


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

ACTAFOOL said:


> i think every1 just missed the point here, the UFC saying cain will be the 1st mexican champ is the problem, because hes not mexican
> 
> unless he has dual citizenship, in that case then its ok...dont know if he has though...im brazilian but i have a spanish citizenship so im also spanish even though i never lived there
> 
> ...


Thank you 

i dont care about race the only thing that is bothering me is that he is american not mexican and this an american fighting an american not a mexican vs an american.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

E Lit Er Ate said:


> the other immigrants werent moving to land that was once Spanish owned, with spanish names and tons of spanish ppl so there was no need to learn a new language, everybody spoke spanish.
> 
> its exactly what the brits did for the french in Quebec, let them keep their own culture, language and heritage and still be Canadian.
> 
> ...


I live in North Carolina. Not any Spanish owned or named land around here. But there are a *lot* of immigrants who don't bother to learn the language.

As for the French in Canada, I don't think the Britts had much say in the matter. 
Wasn't that part of the French-Indian war? (American name) Anyway that's Canada we were talking about America. I'm pretty sure our borders are more open than theirs.

In any case I enjoyed arguing with you when we were on the same side of topics and when we weren't. Very sorry to see you go.

I'll fire one up in honor of you when Brock celebrates his victory.

Till we meet again...Agringarse amigo!


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

I don't think he'll respond...what with being banned and all


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## RudeBoySes (Aug 9, 2010)

americanfighter said:


> i never said it was bad to be of mexican heritage they are just making it seem like its a mexican and not a american. They are selling this fight as Mexico vs USA which in reality its USA vs USA.
> 
> like i said earlier for instance he is an american citizen if he wins he should be seen as another american winning not the first mexican champ. IF someone who is a mexican citizen wins the title then they are the first mexican champ not cain. cain is brown but he is American not Mexican.
> 
> also as i said before are we starting to go back to the 60s and 70s where it was white vs black except now its mexican decent vs white?



i just think you're reading into it too much..
as i stated earlier..

i think most know he's American..

it's great for promotional reasons.. every good story needs a selling-point .. 

America is a melting pot.. we all still have our Ancestry ..


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

John8204 said:


> I don't think he'll respond...what with being banned and all


:thumb02: The only way to get the last word with E Lit Er Ate!


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

He was banned? That is unfortunate. Aside from a few comments in this thread I thought he was expressing his opinion fairly well. Did he have reoccuring problems on the board? I was not offended by anything he said to me so if he was banned for comments pointed towards me please reinstate his account as I was completely not offended. Honestly we all get a hold of these casual forum conversations where we are more emotionally invested and say things a little more pointed than necessary.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Cain is an American with Mexican heritage.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

Fieos said:


> He was banned? That is unfortunate. Aside from a few comments in this thread I thought he was expressing his opinion fairly well. Did he have reoccuring problems on the board? I was not offended by anything he said to me so if he was banned for comments pointed towards me please reinstate his account as I was completely not offended. Honestly we all get a hold of these casual forum conversations where we are more emotionally invested and say things a little more pointed than necessary.


He has already been banned before but thought he was gonna sneak back in. Doesn't work that way, you get one chance if your screw it up your done till the ban expires. Start a second account and its a year ban minimum.


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## Heat02 (Dec 31, 2009)

I hate patriotism and shit like that. Can't wait until I hear those drunk idiots chant USA during the fight... sigh


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## Rusko (Feb 4, 2010)

americanfighter said:


> i watch the advertisements and it looks like they are trying to play this off as Mexico vs USA. they show a mexican flag for cain and an american flag for brock. also sayin cain could be the first mexican champ but cain isnt mexican. He is american he was born in america lives in america and trains in america. His father was from mexico but he is not.



Very well said, this won't bring any good and it's kinda disrespectful. They could have mentioned that he is a mexican immigrant but making it Mexico vs USA is maybe a 'smart' business move. I still think Cain vs Brock will sell out on it's own there is no need to go that low and promote this fight for ******** and mexican racists to go ape sh!t.


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## jakubmistrz (Oct 15, 2010)

well maybe because he calls himself mexican


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

im not one to pick fights and i know this doesn't apply to all of you, but why is patriotisms o damn important to all americans? its cool to love your country and all but you dont have to try and claim everyone good or important to be yours, just accept the fact that cain has mexican heritage therefore he is mexican not full-blooded american


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> im not one to pick fights and i know this doesn't apply to all of you, but why is patriotisms o damn important to all americans? its cool to love your country and all but you dont have to try and claim everyone good or important to be yours, just accept the fact that cain has mexican heritage therefore he is mexican not full-blooded american


USA, USA, USA, USA, JK but i bet they will even shout that in the brock cain fight.


I don't understand it either.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

watch a soti fight there is always USA USA USA USA even when he is awesome fighter and not cocky like bisping or hardy


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Why did bondageguy get banned?


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> Why did bondageguy get banned?


he did?


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> Why did bondageguy get banned?


He asked for...he claimed he was being very naughty and he needed discipline.


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

Toxic said:


> He has already been banned before but thought he was gonna sneak back in. Doesn't work that way, you get one chance if your screw it up your done till the ban expires. Start a second account and its a year ban minimum.


And how did you find out? 

you could at least have waited a little longer.. thanks!


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

UFC_OWNS said:


> im not one to pick fights and i know this doesn't apply to all of you, but why is patriotisms o damn important to all americans? its cool to love your country and all but you dont have to try and claim everyone good or important to be yours, just accept the fact that cain has mexican heritage therefore he is mexican not full-blooded american


its not about patriotism its about the fact that they are making the fight something it is not. 

Really when you think about it it is promoting racial biased. White VS Brown.

people who chant USA USA USA in this fight are stupid because it in reality is an american fighter vs an american fighter not a mexican vs america.

also its not just the USA that takes patriotism too far at events. Its world wide. Ever wonder why Matt faced such a hostile crowd when he fought bisping. Or why sera was booed in his fight against GSP? 

i admit i am a patriot but i am not going to cheer for Kos over GSP.


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## The Amarok (May 4, 2010)

The reason Brock isnt wearing a White Pride tattoo is because of what it represents. And that is racial superiority. Saying that all other races are evil or below them. That is why Brock shouldn't wear it. 
Think about it, what have White done as a whole that was inspriational? Taking the Indians' land? Slavery? Labor Camps during the World Wars? Looking back on White/British American history, it doesnt look like there are alot of things to be proud of.
Im black and im damn proud of it. Hell, most of Africa is a war-torn 3rd world country but thats where my ancestors came from and I cant change no matter how much paperwork is done. Im an African 1st and a American second. DEAL WITH IT. 
I mean sure there isnt much about my African heritage that I know and/or proud of but the one thing I am proud is that they stick to their traditions no matter how advanced the other countires are.
But, the UFC is ticking me off with the whole "1st Mexican HW champ". I mean damn I guess they just plain forgot Ricco Rodriguez.


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## The Amarok (May 4, 2010)

Speaking of which I was watching parts of Aldo/Faber. 
Did they really have to have the no way Jose shrits? I mean really was it because he is Brazillian? 
And I bet they felt like jackass when Aldo kicked Fabers legs to hell.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

The Amarok said:


> what have White done as a whole that was inspriational?


Duh, create the interwebs.


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## The Amarok (May 4, 2010)

Ape City said:


> Duh, create the interwebs.


Nice One (sarcasm)


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

The Amarok said:


> The reason Brock isnt wearing a White Pride tattoo is because of what it represents. And that is racial superiority. Saying that all other races are evil or below them. That is why Brock shouldn't wear it.
> Think about it, what have White done as a whole that was inspriational? Taking the Indians' land? Slavery? Labor Camps during the World Wars? Looking back on White/British American history, it doesnt look like there are alot of things to be proud of.


if you actualy knew some african history you may change your tone. its just as bad and in some cases worse. 
for instance something very basic but contray to popular belief its not like whites came and enslaved the africans. they were slaves already and whites bought them. so technically someone from africa enslaved your ancestor and then sold them to an american. Also slaves were treated worse in africa than in america and most died allot younger in africa than in america. 

africa was a war hungry continent of nations and tribes fighting each other and taking over land then enslaving any survivors. 

Ismial: ran up huge amounts of debt and was completely irresponsible and bankrupted egypt. 

The Zimba were a band of killers and terrorist that preyed on innocent people

Also there were a huge number of time ***** (the declaration that a person is not a true Muslim) was declared on other muslims to start a jihad (Holy war) that really about people just trying to gain land. 

No offense but black africans don't have golden history. its just as bad as whites. 
everything you just shunned whites about can be found in african history.
in other words "before you accuse me why don't you take a look at your self." 


> But, the UFC is ticking me off with the whole "1st Mexican HW champ". I mean damn I guess they just plain forgot Ricco Rodriguez


at least we agree here.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Lets not even get started on slavery. You personally didnt enslave or own slaves so I cant be mad at you but it wouldn't hurt to educate yourself a bit about the reality and long lasting effects of it.


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## dvddanny (Feb 4, 2007)

The Amarok said:


> The reason Brock isnt wearing a White Pride tattoo is because of what it represents. And that is racial superiority. Saying that all other races are evil or below them. That is why Brock shouldn't wear it.
> Think about it, what have White done as a whole that was inspriational? Taking the Indians' land? Slavery? Labor Camps during the World Wars? Looking back on White/British American history, it doesnt look like there are alot of things to be proud of.


Inventing calculus, democracy, the light bulb and space flight is something i'd hella brag about if i invented.


----------



## chilo (May 27, 2007)




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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

dvddanny said:


> Inventing calculus, democracy, the light bulb and space flight is something i'd hella brag about if i invented.


remember something about history.....

just because one group alerts the world of their "inventions" doesnt mean they are the originators
:thumb02:


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## Kodiac26170 (Jul 30, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> i watch the advertisements and it looks like they are trying to play this off as Mexico vs USA. they show a mexican flag for cain and an american flag for brock. also sayin cain could be the first mexican champ but cain isnt mexican. He is american he was born in america lives in america and trains in america. His father was from mexico but he is not.


He does have Brown Pride across his chest and explains it is because he is proud to be Mexican.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

Kodiac26170 said:


> He does have Brown Pride across his chest and explains it is because he is proud to be Mexican.


yea but i guess for some people logical thinking doesn't exists. hence, to why this thread was created.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

vilify said:


> Lets not even get started on slavery. You personally didnt enslave or own slaves so I cant be mad at you but it wouldn't hurt to educate yourself a bit about the reality and long lasting effects of it.


Belive me I know the horrors of slavery in no way am i justifying the Americans that had slaves. I know all about American history and slavery however I have also done allot of study on African history. It's just the way the slave trade worked African nations and tribes gained slaves through wars (and other things) then sold them to Europeans and 
Americans. Slavery was not uniquely white many Africans had slaves as well.


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## The Amarok (May 4, 2010)

look im not trying to say one hertitage is better than the other.
Japanesse,Chinese,Koreans,Brazilians,Russia and everyone else has had a dark history, but not a totally dark history. Im saying that Cain should'nt be persucuted for saying how proud he is to be a MEXICAN-american, thats all.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

Kodiac26170 said:


> He does have Brown Pride across his chest and explains it is because he is proud to be Mexican.


But he is not he is American


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

The Amarok said:


> look im not trying to say one hertitage is better than the other.
> Japanesse,Chinese,Koreans,Brazilians,Russia and everyone else has had a dark history, but not a totally dark history. Im saying that Cain should'nt be persucuted for saying how proud he is to be a MEXICAN-american, thats all.


I have no problem with his race I just don't like that the ufc is trying to make Tia Mexico vs USA when it's not.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

They are 2 Americans fightig for the HW strap. One has strong ties to Mexico. Do I think it is a false notion that Cain would be the first "Mexican" HW Champ? Yea. They are doing all they can to get the most PPV views.

In the end I don't care what the advertisment says. Cain is American. Has nothig to do with anything come fight night.


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> They are 2 Americans fightig for the HW strap. One has strong ties to Mexico. Do I think it is a false notion that Cain would be the first "Mexican" HW Champ? Yea. They are doing all they can to get the most PPV views.
> 
> In the end I don't care what the advertisment says. Cain is American. Has nothig to do with anything come fight night.


QFT brother


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

americanfighter said:


> But he is not he is American


that's ridiculous. I know plenty of whites who celebrate their scottish or german or english heritage despite being many more generations removed, even to the point of never meeting a relative who has actually even been to said country, much less having a first generation immigrant father who barely speaks english. you're making a huge deal out of a piece of paper which has nothing to do with who a person actually is.


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## AdRath (Nov 16, 2006)

HexRei said:


> that's ridiculous. I know plenty of whites who celebrate their scottish or german or english heritage. you're making a huge deal out of a piece of paper which has nothing to do with who a person actually is.


But if they won the belt would they be the first Scottish, German or English Champion? 

I don't think anyone has issue with Cain's pride in his heritage but its the UFC declaring him a Mexican champion if he wins not an American champion who has Mexican heritage.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

HexRei said:


> that's ridiculous. I know plenty of whites who celebrate their scottish or german or english heritage. you're making a huge deal out of a piece of paper which has nothing to do with who a person actually is.


So where someone is born and where they are a citizen defines their nationality. I don't give a shit weather your white brown black or what ever color but if you were born in America raised in America live in America and are an American citizen you are an American. Not Mexican Irish German African or whatever.


I don't have a problem with his pride just fact they saying he is Mexican when he is not


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## AlexZ (Sep 14, 2007)

americanfighter said:


> well look at it this way say he does beat brock and they call him the first mexican champ. Then later down the road someone from mexico who was born and lives there wins the title. Shouldn't that person be called the first mexican champ and not cain.
> 
> also if cain loves mexico so much and so dearly wants to be mexican instead of american then he should go live there.





americanfighter said:


> I have no problem with his race I just don't like that the ufc is trying to make Tia Mexico vs USA when it's not.



If you don't have a problem with his race then you should instead question the UFC's advertising as opposed to questioning Cain's obvious Mexican heritage. :sarcastic12:


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

americanfighter said:


> So where someone is born and where they are a citizen defines their nationality. I don't give a shit weather your white brown black or what ever color but if you were born in America raised in America live in America and are an American citizen you are an American. Not Mexican Irish German African or whatever.
> 
> 
> I don't have a problem with his pride just fact they saying he is Mexican when he is not


He is mexican by descent and culture. Show me a quote where he claims to be a mexican national or citizen and I'll agree but otherwise, he's simply claiming his heritage.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

HexRei said:


> *He is mexican by descent and culture*. Show me a quote where he claims to be a mexican national or citizen and I'll agree but otherwise, he's simply claiming his heritage.


This really explains it all....but for some reason people are still acting confused.


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

vilify said:


> This really explains it all....but for some reason people are still acting confused.


It's about his nationality not his heritage.


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

141 replies and counting


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Personally, I feel disappointed, slighted and offended that the ufc is doing nothing to promote the fact that Brock is the first Viking heavy weight champ, fighting for the honor and pride of all the Scandinavian people of minnisota and Dakota as well as blonde haired blue eyed people all over the world.Highlighting his ethnic pride and proving over and over again that no other ethnic fighter can beat the Nordic warrior.:angry02:


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

americanfighter said:


> its not about patriotism its about the fact that they are making the fight something it is not.
> 
> Really when you think about it it is promoting racial biased. White VS Brown.
> 
> ...


well thats positive:thumbsup:


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## Kodiac26170 (Jul 30, 2009)

americanfighter said:


> But he is not he is American



Ummmmm, maybe you should tell him that because in his interviews he says he IS PROUD TO BE MEXICAN.:confused05:




I'm tired of arguing - I don't mean to mean but it's all I can be 
It's just me 

And I am 
Whatever you say I am 
If I wasn't, then why would I say I am? 
In the papers, the news, everyday I am 
Radio won't even play my jam 

Cause I am 
Whatever you say I am 
If I wasn't, then why would I say I am? 
In the papers, the news, everyday I am 
I don't know it's just the way I am


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

The Amarok said:


> Nice One (sarcasm)


You can't really be serious that people of the Caucasian race have nothing to be proud of in terms of heritage can you?

I actually took your post as sarcasm, hence my laid back reply. If you really think all Caucasian did was enslave other races then you are quite ignorant, my friend.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I think he takes pride in his Mexican heritage. It doesn't necessarilly mean he doesn't consider himself American. It's like me taking pride in my Japanese heritage!:thumbsup:


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Sorry I didnt go through all the thread but to answer the OP the reason they call Cain "Mexican" is to promote him among the Latinos, no more, no less imo.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Since people are still arguing the same irrelevant points I feel it necessary to re-post this from page 5:




Soojooko said:


> This thread is bullshit.
> 
> My parents are Cypriot. I was born in England. I talk English. I have a UK passport. I've spend my WHOLE life in the UK. I don't speak Greek very well at all. I am not a dual national.
> 
> ...


Deep down don't you all know *exactly* what Sooj is talking about? If someone walks up to Cain an asks him where he is from do you really think they mean which state? They wanna know about heritage.

Said it before and will say it again: Cain is Mexican by heritage/culture, American by nationality.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, someone takes their heritage to certain levels and Cain likes to remember where he came from. His roots are in Mexico and he takes pride in that. I can sympathise with that cause even though I'm mostly white and look white I have Japanese in my blood and I take pride in that!raise01:


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## AdRath (Nov 16, 2006)

kantowrestler said:


> Yeah, someone takes their heritage to certain levels and Cain likes to remember where he came from. His roots are in Mexico and he takes pride in that. I can sympathise with that cause even though I'm mostly white and look white I have Japanese in my blood and I take pride in that!raise01:


Would you be a Japanese champion if you won te belt?

The UFC is wrong to market the fight this way. I know why they did it but don't think it's right. I'm Canadian and have Canadian citizenship and have never lived in the States. My mom is American and my brother is American and my aunts and uncles are American. If I fought for a title would I be an American champion? I'm proud of that side of my family but I would imagine most American's would be pissed off if I was billed as such not being an American citizen myself. I'm surprised more Mexican MMA guys aren't cheesed off at a guy who isn't a Mexican citizen waving the flag and being billed as the possible 1st Mexican champion. I sure as he'll would be a little miffed at that.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

^^^yeah i remember how mad everyone got when Tito used to come into the octagon with a mexican flag...


and when the whole world ganged up to lynch genki sudo for coming in with a flag composed of all the world's flags!


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

Can someone please explain to me why people are crying over cain being called Mexican even though if you just saw him in the street and he wasn't a known person you would call him a Mexican, if he was doing your lawn, you would call him a Mexican.

But when he is fighting for something. "No man he is American, he was born in America, land of the free!"


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

Ape City said:


> Since people are still arguing the same irrelevant points I feel it necessary to re-post this from page 5:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This quote and the quote by Soojoo are right on the money. No matter what he will always be seen as Mexican. My mother is Dominican and my father is Colombian but I consider myself American because I grew up here. And if people ask me where I'm from it's because I'm not white, plan and simple. Let me explain... When some asks a Caucasian person where they are from, it's assumed they mean state. If someone asks an Asian guy where he's from it's assumed country/heritage. That's what happens to minorities(except AA). Not that is some terrible thing, honestly it doesn't bother me, but it's the truth.

To think otherwise is being ignorant(lacking information) on the subject.


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## R1WARRIOR (Sep 21, 2010)

My bad...Cain come from a Mexican community living on USA soil, he's been raised under Mexican traditions by Mexicans......how the hell can you be more Mexican than that!!!?? The chineses in Canada are still chinese, same for the Cubans and Haitiens....

That thread is a joke or what??


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Some people just do not understand that being born somewhere is just a location. 

My father was born in the Netherlands. He has lived in Canada for 50+ years. 

When people ask him where he is from it becomes clear there are two very different meanings to that question:

1) "So where abouts to do you live" type of inquiry.

2) "Where does your heritage lie?" type of inquiry.

No one except native americans originated here and even that is debatable, so the second question is almost always relevant. 

It is hard to explain unless you have experienced both types of questions first hand. Like Soakked said it isn't a bad thing at all, in fact it is perfectly natural and legit question. It just articulates how heritage and nationality are completely separate.






So then there is me, first generation Canadian, just like Cain. What do I call myself? Well, it depends on the question being asked, and the context. 

When the relatives come over it isn't hard to tell I am Dutch, but Canada is my home, and if I was waving only one flag, you can be damn sure it was a Canadian one. That being said, take a gander at my siggy and guess which flag I wave during World Cup.

It is a complex and inter tangled web of culture, heritage, nationality...and what it all boils down to is people just wanting to belong to something. People just wanna feel safe and secure and know that if it comes down to it, it's us against them.

Well in the end it isn't always as simple as drawing a line on a map.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

chilo said:


> yea but i guess for some people logical thinking doesn't exists. hence, to why this thread was created.


The very fact that "brown pride" is a statement about being proud of his race makes it by default a racist tattoo and in prison it is treated as such.

Dont forget there is a Mexican gang called "Brown Pride" most authority's dont identify the tattoo specifically with that gang but they do list it as a racial tattoo because thats what it is.

I see a lot of accusations about "White People" I hate to burst bubbles here but anyone of Spanish decent is descended from a society that embraced slavery, contrary to popular belief it was not just the "white people" in america that used slavery it was damn near every country in the world that used it at one time or another and the Spanish were just as ruthless as any of the others. 

Its ironic someone would bring up the native americans what per haps do you think happened to the native's in mexico? They got wiped out for the most part.

I'll tell you something else, I do find the tattoo racist although it really doesn't bother me much and nothing anyone can say will change my opinion.

"Brown Pride" is also a political movement and they also claim to not be racist. if you look through what the movement dose IE laws they back and legislation they stand behind along with the activity on their forums, do that and then you can make your own decision about if they are a racist organisation or not.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, Cain just likes to show off his heritage of where he's from. I'm sure he does take pride in where he is living though. He probably does remember though that his father got deported again and again until at some point he got legal status and that he worked so that Cain can live the life he is living instead of living life in the fields with his father, that is what he takes pride in!:thumbsup:


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## americanfighter (Sep 27, 2006)

guy incognito said:


> Can someone please explain to me why people are crying over cain being called Mexican even though if you just saw him in the street and he wasn't a known person you would call him a Mexican, if he was doing your lawn, you would call him a Mexican.
> 
> But when he is fighting for something. "No man he is American, he was born in America, land of the free!"


Who said anything about him not being an American outside of the cage? If I saw him on the street he is an American just like he would be when he is fighting. 

In fact what is happening is the opposite of what you at saying. Everywhere else he is American but now when he steps in the cage and is fighting for the title he al the sudden has the chance to be the first Mexican champ even though in reality his nationality is American.


----------



## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

This is my opinion, anyone who I meet who is hispanic I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and call them Hispanic-American. Cain though is obviously a fighter though and deserves nothing more than the best of choices. It isn't what that person might be it's how they identify themselves!:thumbsup:


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

americanfighter said:


> Who said anything about him not being an American outside of the cage? If I saw him on the street he is an American just like he would be when he is fighting.
> 
> In fact what is happening is the opposite of what you at saying. Everywhere else he is American but now when he steps in the cage and is fighting for the title he al the sudden has the chance to be the first Mexican champ even though in reality his nationality is American.


No,The average American would call him a Mexican ,just like Jews and Arabs, nobody calls them Jewish-Americans or Arab-Americans.

Just say someone is telling there friend to go to a shop and the friend asks which one it is. Now if cain or any other Mexican-American was sitting next to it. the man would say to his friend "see the one with the Mexican(or latino) standing next to it? that one." they would not say American or Mexican-American.


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

I would call him hispanic but that's just me. People steriotype too much I think. The thing I think they should be saying is that there has never been a hispanic champion!:thumbsup:


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

Right. So we have some 2nd generation immigrants like myself making a point... because, WE ARE IN EXACTLY THE SAME SITUATION AS CAIN. And we get a bunch of people who haven't a clue what it means to be from an immigrant background boldly making statements about what we should call ourselves when it comes to nationality/race/ethnicity.

Well, to those making these absurd statements, F*uck off the lot of you. You don't know what you are talking about. This topic boils my blood.

I am GREEK. Anybody tells me I'm wrong to call myself that can go feck themselves. Hows that for a solid argument?!

EDIT. I for one would not be disappointed if all topics that drifted into the race debate be closed or moved to some obscure corner of the forum.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> Right. So we have some 2nd generation immigrants like myself making a point... because, WE ARE IN EXACTLY THE SAME SITUATION AS CAIN. And we get a bunch of people who haven't a clue what it means to be from an immigrant background boldly making statements about what we should call ourselves when it comes to nationality/race/ethnicity.
> 
> Well, to those making these absurd statements, F*uck off the lot of you. You don't know what you are talking about. This topic boils my blood.
> 
> ...


im 3rd gen greek, but i call myself aussie though, but i dont deny my heritage


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> im 3rd gen greek, but i call myself aussie though, but i dont deny my heritage


My point really is, if somebody in Aussieland was offended at you calling yourself Greek, what would you say to that? Something along the lines of, "mind your own fecking business" I would bet!


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> My point really is, if somebody in Aussieland was offended at you calling yourself Greek, what would you say to that? Something along the lines of, "mind your own fecking business" I would bet!


yeah that or get fecked kent


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

UFC_OWNS said:


> yeah that or get fecked kent


Bingo. Exactly the response half this thread warrants.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

Soojooko said:


> Bingo. Exactly the response half this thread warrants.


yep i dont even know why this is a thread its now like a cultural political debate, and politics bores me which means this thread bores me


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## RossCrispin (Aug 4, 2010)

My heritage goes back to Cornwall, and Canada, but it was a bunch of Frenchies who got to Quebec.

So am I French?


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

RossCrispin said:


> My heritage goes back to Cornwall, and Canada, but it was a bunch of Frenchies who got to Quebec.
> 
> So am I French?


That's not the point. The point is, if you *wanted* to call yourself French, its nobody else's business to tell you that you are wrong.

Feck me. I cant believe Ive been reeled into a fecking Cain related race thread again. I'm vexed. My point has been made with as much clarity as I can make it. I'm out of here.


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## AdRath (Nov 16, 2006)

HexRei said:


> ^^^yeah i remember how mad everyone got when Tito used to come into the octagon with a mexican flag...
> 
> 
> and when the whole world ganged up to lynch genki sudo for coming in with a flag composed of all the world's flags!


You missed my point by a mile. I have no issue with Cain's pride in his Mexican heritage. What I have issue with is the billing of him being possibly the first Mexican champion. Tito never was called the Mexican LHW Chanpion he was just the champion. 

I would be offended if someone who never had citizenship in a country was being billed as a Champion of that country. The example used before to illustrate this and is very appropriate would be Marcus Davis. He is very proud of his Irish Heritage which is great (I'm a huge fan of being proud of your roots), He displays his Heritage as he walks to the ring, but if you ever billed Marcus Davis as a possible Irish champion that would be absurd wouldn't it? 

Hell people nailed Davis especially the Irish fans for even having pride in his Heritage let alone being billed as a possible Irish Champ. That would bave gotten huge outrage. 

My issue is with the UFC not Cain as I have mentioned in many posts previous. He is not a possible Mexican champion he is a possible Hispanic champion which doesn't sound so 'special' as its nothing new or unique.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

What cracks me up in this thread is the people who say 'American' is his nationality and "Mexican" is his culture... Mexican isn’t a race, it is a nationality.

Hispanic, the term you are looking for is Hispanic.... He is a Hispanic American whose family emigrated from Mexico.... This shouldn't even be a debate. 

Example

My heritage is primarily Native American and French. Since I look like a traditional Caucasian and people ask me where I’m from I say ‘The United States’. Should I be saying “France” any more than Cain should be saying “Mexico” just because I’m Caucasian and he is Hispanic?

*Edit*

Another example. If Cain were driving around Arizona and was pulled over by the police. If the police asked him where he was from I will damn sure bet you he wouldn't say 'Mexico'.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

guy incognito said:


> Can someone please explain to me why people are crying over cain being called Mexican even though if you just saw him in the street and he wasn't a known person you would call him a Mexican, if he was doing your lawn, you would call him a Mexican.
> 
> But when he is fighting for something. "No man he is American, he was born in America, land of the free!"


I got to give it to you, you understand this "issue" 100%. :thumbsup:


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## Brutus (May 27, 2007)

His parents dont even speak English, hes def Mexican he was just born and raised in America.


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

Nationality is more than just a birthplace or a passport.

*I am English, my girlfriend is Turkish - we may even move to Turkey and my son might be born there - but my son will still be English, no one would have the right to tell me or my son otherwise.*


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

gazh said:


> Nationality is more than just a birthplace or a passport.
> 
> *I am English, my girlfriend is Turkish - we may even move to Turkey and my son might be born there - but my son will still be English, no one would have the right to tell me or my son otherwise.*


wait are you against cain or with?


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## UKMMAGURU (Nov 15, 2009)

guy incognito said:


> wait are you against cain or with?


I'm definitely with.


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## Guy Incognito (Apr 3, 2010)

gazh said:


> I'm definitely with.



will i definitely agree.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

Fieos said:


> What cracks me up in this thread is the people who say 'American' is his nationality and "Mexican" is his culture... Mexican isn’t a race, it is a nationality.
> 
> Hispanic, the term you are looking for is Hispanic.... He is a Hispanic American whose family emigrated from Mexico.... This shouldn't even be a debate.
> 
> ...


As far as this debate goes, You've pretty much answered your own question. If Cain is pulled over by the police in Arizona they very well could ask him where he is from. That would NEVER happen to Lesnar or someone that looks like him. Being Caucasian in America is the "norm". Minorities are aware of this and is the reason why most of them choose to highlight "their" heritage and celebrate it.


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## ACTAFOOL (Dec 10, 2008)

guy incognito said:


> wait are you against cain or with?


this^^

pretty much 90% of you just forgot or didnt even understand the point of the thread in the first place...how can ppl not notice no1 is against cain? really...is it that hard to read?:confused03:

lets just close this thread now before it gets worse...ppl might be thinking we're out to kill all mexicans after a few more posts


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## Kameleon (Apr 20, 2006)

*They are calling him Mexican and advertising it this way to sell PPVs. It's all about promoting the fight between the champion and the #1 contender. They've been doing this for years now.

The fight between Brock and Carwin was billed as the biggest Heavyweight battle in UFC history. Was it really the biggest, maybe, not in my eyes. But it sold PPVs and made the company money.

Same case here.

Some of you guys are confusing ethnicity with nationalism. He is Mexican American, it's up to him on what he wants to call himself.*


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Well I found this and wile he is funny as they say many a truth spoken in jest. 

It is NSFW language but relevant to the topic. 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsPDT5qHtZ4


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## sicc (Mar 4, 2007)

Cain is a racist. If Brock had white pride on his chest, he'd be racist. Cain has brown pride on his chest, he's racist end of story.

The white gorilla is going to pound his brown pride bullshit into the ground anyway so it's all good.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

sicc said:


> Cain is a racist. If Brock had white pride on his chest, he'd be racist. Cain has brown pride on his chest, he's racist end of story.
> 
> The white gorilla is going to pound his brown pride bullshit into the ground so who cares.


there's nothing racist about being proud of your ethnicity. white pride might come across as douchy (since white people have done some really horrible things to...well, practically everybody in recent history) but I don't think it's inherently racist to be proud of being white, either.


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## sicc (Mar 4, 2007)

HexRei said:


> there's nothing racist about being proud of your ethnicity. white pride might come across as douchy (since white people have done some really horrible things to...well, practically everybody in recent history) but I don't think it's inherently racist to be proud of being white, either.


You know as well as I know that "white pride" across a chest would never be allowed. Because as we all know, only white hetero males are racists. Everyone else is just a victim of the white man. It's a complete bullshit double standard. 

If he loves Mexico so much he should promptly GTFO of America and go back to his 3rd world shithole of a country so drug cartels can kidnap him and his family for large ransoms.

**** Cain. Watch Brock smash this POS.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Dude dont get hit with the ..


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

sicc said:


> You know as well as I know that "white pride" across a chest would never be allowed. Because as we all know, only white hetero males are racists. Everyone else is just a victim of the white man. It's a complete bullshit double standard.


 Maybe it's because whites raped practically every culture around the world over the last few centuries? I think some people are still a little sensitive about that stuff. Otherwise, there really isn't anything wrong with being proud of being white imo. Of course the UFC wouldn't hire a fighter with white pride on their chest, but that's a business decision based on the aforementioned peoples being a little upset about having their ancestors pillaged, murdered, enslaved, etc not too long ago. Oh and they probably aren't so thrilled that these same people still run most of the world.



> If he loves Mexico so much he should promptly GTFO of America and go back to his 3rd world shithole of a country so drug cartels can kidnap him and his family for large ransoms.


Wow, that's not a very nice thing to say.


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## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

Why does everyone always point out what WHITE people have done over the course of history and not what humans have done period? Its not just whites. When the mongolians came over on the land bridge and settled what is now the united states they came in several waves. The second wave has proven to of killed off most of the "native population" that was here previously. The crusades were fought over religion and not so much race and also involved thousands of Muslims killing in the holy land. Not to forget the constant reminder of the african slave trade. Most of the black slaves were slaves all ready by african tribes. They were the lesser tribes and used as slaves and FOOD!!!! WW2 yeah Nazis whatever....I mean the Italians ( darker skinned) and the Japanese ( no need to even explain) were not involved witht hat at all.....Get over the big bad white man thing. If Cain has a damn Brown Pride, Brock in theory should be able to have a White Pride. I agree with Sicc. Everyone else likes to point out how bad white people are or have been. I think white people have killed more white people than anything else through the course of history. But its cool we dont give a crap about that.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

HexRei said:


> Maybe it's because whites raped practically every culture around the world over the last few centuries? I think some people are still a little sensitive about that stuff.


That sounds racist to me, Spain raped its own share of culture and "White People" have no more shame to bear than just about any other race's.

Kind of surprised at your statement.


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## Clivey (May 28, 2007)

I think UFC should be making a bigger deal over this 'brown pride' tattoo, they should at least blur it out since it's so offensive to people, in my opinion it's just as bad as having a 'white pride' tattoo, humans are as bad as each other.


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## Abrissbirne (Jul 4, 2010)

americanfighter said:


> also if cain loves mexico so much and so dearly wants to be mexican instead of american then he should go live there.


This is a very good argument which i will never understand.
Some of the people in germany, mainly turkish or arabian people say that they hate germany, but they still live here and get all the benefits. You really should have to choose what you want, otherwise it doesnt make any sense. No one forces them to live there and Cain choose to live in America, he wouldn´t even be a fighter if he and his family would have stayed in Mexico so you may as well say you are American or even partly American, but i guess that would´t sell enough PPVs.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

EVERLOST said:


> Why does everyone always point out what WHITE people have done over the course of history and not what humans have done period? Its not just whites. When the mongolians came over on the land bridge and settled what is now the united states they came in several waves. The second wave has proven to of killed off most of the "native population" that was here previously. The crusades were fought over religion and not so much race and also involved thousands of Muslims killing in the holy land. Not to forget the constant reminder of the african slave trade. Most of the black slaves were slaves all ready by african tribes. They were the lesser tribes and used as slaves and FOOD!!!! WW2 yeah Nazis whatever....I mean the Italians ( darker skinned) and the Japanese ( no need to even explain) were not involved witht hat at all.....Get over the big bad white man thing. If Cain has a damn Brown Pride, Brock in theory should be able to have a White Pride. I agree with Sicc. Everyone else likes to point out how bad white people are or have been. I think white people have killed more white people than anything else through the course of history. But its cool we dont give a crap about that.


It's mostly about the RECENTNESS of it. As in- there are plenty of black folks who still remember when they couldn't use the same bathrooms as white people, and they knew relatives who remembered when they couldn't vote. There are still native americans who knew relatives who lived through being displaced and even slaughtered by the US government.

Do you really not understand the difference between this and Genghis Khan ravaging half of eurasia 800 years ago?

Oh, and btw, no one (seriously, no one) in this thread even espoused any of the opinions you seem to be arguing against. In fact we were talking about the EXACT OPPOSITE- the suggestion that having brown pride on your chest makes you inherently racist.




slapshot said:


> That sounds racist to me, Spain raped its own share of culture and "White People" have no more shame to bear than just about any other race's.
> 
> Kind of surprised at your statement.


Spanish are basically white. The people of the region had an infusion of Moorish blood a millennia ago or so but they are essentially white europeans from an ethnic standpoint, much much whiter than the american natives they murdered and enslaved, for example.



Abrissbirne said:


> This is a very good argument which i will never understand.
> Some of the people in germany, mainly turkish or arabian people say that they hate germany, but they still live here and get all the benefits. You really should have to choose what you want, otherwise it doesnt make any sense. No one forces them to live there and Cain choose to live in America, he wouldn´t even be a fighter if he and his family would have stayed in Mexico so you may as well say you are American or even partly American, but i guess that would´t sell enough PPVs.


Except that Cain has never said he hates the US or anything like that. In what world does "WELL IF YOU LIKE MEXICO SO MUCH YOU SHOULD JUST GO LIVE THERE" constitute a sensible response to "I am proud of my mexican heritage"?


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

HexRei said:


> It's mostly about the RECENTNESS of it. As in- there are plenty of black folks who still remember when they couldn't use the same bathrooms as white people, and they knew relatives who remembered when they couldn't vote. There are still native americans who knew relatives who lived through being displaced and even slaughtered by the US government.
> 
> Do you really not understand the difference between this and Genghis Khan ravaging half of eurasia 800 years ago?
> 
> ...


Oh I see they have tainted blood eh? 
Im more than tired of people making racist remarks about whites. You depicting white people as evil is bullshit.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

slapshot said:


> Oh I see they have tainted blood eh?
> Im more than tired of people making racist remarks about whites. You depicting white people as evil is bullshit.


Your characterization of me depicting white people as evil is bullshit. I did no such thing. Your "tainted blood" comment just demonstrates that you're running out of steam and playing pointless race cards now.


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## Abrissbirne (Jul 4, 2010)

HexRei said:


> Except that Cain has never said he hates the US or anything like that. In what world does "WELL IF YOU LIKE MEXICO SO MUCH YOU SHOULD JUST GO LIVE THERE" constitute a sensible response to "I am proud of my mexican heritage"?


This wasn´t applied to Cain, just something to contibute to the topic. I don´t understand this kind of behaviour.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

Abrissbirne said:


> This wasn´t applied to Cain, just something to contibute to the topic. I don´t understand this kind of behaviour.


Well I can agree with you on that. It's nonsensical to bitch about where you are and worship the grass on the other side but refuse to take an opportunity to move to that other side. However I'm not a fan of the "love it or leave it" attitude either- no society can evolve in that situation.


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

Sekou said:


> welcome to the sullied history of America's dealings with race and ethnicity
> 
> Wikipedia "One drop rule" and youll be in for a suprise :thumb02:
> 
> ...


I think this addresses alot in a nutshell:thumbsup:


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## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

HexRei said:


> It's mostly about the RECENTNESS of it. As in- there are plenty of black folks who still remember when they couldn't use the same bathrooms as white people, and they knew relatives who remembered when they couldn't vote. There are still native americans who knew relatives who lived through being displaced and even slaughtered by the US government.
> 
> Yeah I guess not being able to use the same bathroom is way worse than being eaten and never existing. My bad. The indians were over here killing each other in different tribes for hundreds of years.....we just came over and had better weapons.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

EVERLOST said:


> HexRei said:
> 
> 
> > It's mostly about the RECENTNESS of it. As in- there are plenty of black folks who still remember when they couldn't use the same bathrooms as white people, and they knew relatives who remembered when they couldn't vote. There are still native americans who knew relatives who lived through being displaced and even slaughtered by the US government.
> ...



That is possibly the worst attempt at justifying slavery and genocide that I have ever seen. Congratulations, Oklahoma must be very proud of you.


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## elessarcif (Jul 12, 2009)

HexRei said:


> there's nothing racist about being proud of your ethnicity. white pride might come across as douchy (since white people have done some really horrible things to...well, practically everybody in recent history) but I don't think it's inherently racist to be proud of being white, either.


How about the Mayans, the conquest of the desert, qing dynasty of china(estimate 480,000 to 700,000 civ dead), etc. I could keep listing if I wanted to. There are plenty of horrible things that just about all societies have done over time. Brown pride does not define that you are proud to be a mexican all it does is state you are proud to be brown(indian, asian, latin america, heck african) which if you ask me is racist. The reason white pride is offensive is cause there is no real reason to be proud of a particular color of skin. There are great things that countries have done but not a particular skin color.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

HexRei said:


> Your characterization of me depicting white people as evil is bullshit. I did no such thing. Your "tainted blood" comment just demonstrates that you're running out of steam and playing pointless race cards now.


Its not a bullshit characterization its the truth, you made the comments not me.

Here are some examples...




HexRei said:


> there's nothing racist about being proud of your ethnicity. white pride might come across as douchy (since white people have done some really horrible things to...well, practically everybody in recent history) but I don't think it's inherently racist to be proud of being white, either.


evil white people! 
Nothing racist about being proud of your race? You are in some way shape or form elevating your race above others, people rarely celebrate their failures.


HexRei said:


> _white pride might come across as douchy (since white people have done some really horrible things to...well, practically everybody in recent history) _


evil white people! 



HexRei said:


> Maybe it's because whites raped practically every culture around the world over the last few centuries? I think some people are still a little sensitive about that stuff.
> evil white people!
> 
> Spanish are basically white. The people of the region had an infusion of Moorish blood a millennia ago or so but they are essentially white europeans from an ethnic standpoint, much much whiter than the american natives they murdered and enslaved, for example.


evil white people!

So you see Im not making you look bad you're doing that yourself. Im going to just bounce out of this tread I think all its doing is making me angry anyway lol.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Fieos said:


> What cracks me up in this thread is the people who say 'American' is his nationality and "Mexican" is his culture... Mexican isn’t a race, it is a nationality.
> 
> Hispanic, the term you are looking for is Hispanic.... He is a Hispanic American whose family emigrated from Mexico.... This shouldn't even be a debate.
> 
> ...


A culture can be tied to a nationality man.

Italians have culture.

French both Quebecois and from France have distinct culture.

Hell Americans have a distinct culture.

I could go on listing countries that have distinct cultures but I think I would end up naming most of the worlds nations.

The second part of your post seems to have nothing to do with the first part. You can call yourself whatever you want, dude. I am not sure why personal choices and immigration laws prove your point.

And once again your "pulled over" example illustrates my point that there are two different meanings to the question "where are you from?". Clearly the officer is not asking about Cains heritage. But if Cain was in a bar and some dude says "What's your last name?...Oh, where you from? the dude wants to know he is Mexican. 

The fact is the UFC is marketing it this way to sell more tickets and while it technically isn't true you can't tell Cain how to refer to himself, just like I can't tell you not to call yourself French.

Feck this is getting annoying. Sooj explained this perfectly on page 5 guys. Talk to some first gen immigrants like me and we can explain Cains position easily lol.


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

slapshot said:


> Its not a bullshit characterization its the truth, you made the comments not me.
> 
> Here are some examples...
> 
> ...



None of those are examples of calling white people evil. I was stating facts. Sorry that they happen to be true. Perhaps we should ignore truth to spare your feelings?

And no, its not racist to be proud of your ethnicity.



elessarcif said:


> How about the Mayans, the conquest of the desert, qing dynasty of china(estimate 480,000 to 700,000 civ dead), etc. I could keep listing if I wanted to. There are plenty of horrible things that just about all societies have done over time. Brown pride does not define that you are proud to be a mexican all it does is state you are proud to be brown(indian, asian, latin america, heck african) which if you ask me is racist. The reason white pride is offensive is cause there is no real reason to be proud of a particular color of skin. There are great things that countries have done but not a particular skin color.


I'm not sure what you're getting at with the list, I never said other ethnicities hadn't committed atrocities, simply that white people have many recent and egregious examples, and this is especially true within the cultural context of the americas.

And to reiterate my second point, I disagree that it's necessarily racist to be proud of your ethnicity or culture. You can be proud of one thing without condemning or demeaning others.


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

This thread was so much more fun when alizio and I were arguing about Spanish.

HexRei please.... live up to those words under your name.

close this one


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## HexRei (Apr 27, 2007)

I will let another mod make that decision as I am involved with the debate itself. However I do suppose we should probably get this thread back on track sometime soon here.


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## Imperador (May 9, 2010)

To appeal to the Mexican audience. He'll help the sport grow in these area's, due to his Mexican heritage. They'll use him as a poster boy for the Latino area's no doubt, yet I can imagine the UFC not wanting to see Cain beat Brock, due to Brock being *the* poster boy of the UFC.


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## EVERLOST (May 28, 2007)

I hope Brock wrecks Cain so bad he never fights again and is stuck selling oranges at the border to white people passing through. Theres some Brown Pride for you. My failed attempt at humor should not reflect im white with indian heritage lol.


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## kgilstrap (Dec 3, 2006)

Calling someone mexcian has more than one meaning. They are speaking of his heritage, not that he is actually from mexico. I live in San Antonio and many people here claim to be Mexican because it's their heritage, not because they are actually from Mexico. Mexican people are very proud of their heritage, just like the irish, germans, jewish, etc. Get over it.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

Looked at your user name , laughed , Then realised that your just butthurt that Cain likes to consider himself Mexican rather than American.


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## wiwi07 (Oct 8, 2010)

Why The Dumes Guys From Jersy Shore Call Them Self Italians Why A Lot Of People In Boston Call Them Self Irish Or In Nwe York A Lot Of Guys Born In Unite States Call Them Self Puerto Ricans You Tall Me Becuase May Be They Have That Root Dont You Tink So


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## kantowrestler (Jun 6, 2009)

Yeah, I think Cain is just taking pride in his Mexican heritage. However, that is a good question as to why people who identify themselves as ethnically something are a few generations down the road. This is America where all of us are Americans when we are born here!


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## wiwi07 (Oct 8, 2010)

and the more i here your stupid white shit i hope cain wins and shut your with mouth and respect

fist of all no one call cain mexicna just him and if bruck wnats to call him self a fuking viking so be it they can do what ever they want


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## Franco (Sep 24, 2009)

The reason (I believe) why it's being sold as a "the first Mexican in history to possibly become a HW Champ" is to bring in more money and fans from the "Mexican" buying public, whether they are Mexican American/Mexicano, Spanish-speaking....what the hell ever! As long as it draws a crowd, right? And if it makes more people interested, then the better, right? Because I think Dana White is color blind...except for of course the only color he repsonds to, which is GREEN!:thumb02: haha...

Definitley not!


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## MLD (Oct 15, 2006)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Because they want Hispanics to buy the PPV.


^This^ Well said.


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## Yojimbo (Oct 25, 2009)

One question for this thread. What do you all think would happen if Brock got "White Pride" Tattooed across his chest. I for one wouldn't watch him compete and probably would avoid any company that affiliated themselves with him. This is a bit of a double standard, don't ya think? 
I'm not suggesting that Cain is a Mexican supremacist more likely he was really naive when choosing his tats.


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## chilo (May 27, 2007)

this thread sucks.


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

UFC_OWNS said:


> damn is every american like this, who gives a shite where he claims to be from, i buy that he has mexican heritage end of story its not like his saying hes asian when he clearly isn't


Why are you ragging on Americans, bro? I see you're from Australia - so let me use an analogy - let's say that there was an Aussie born fighter who was born and bred in Australia - but the pre-fight trailer said that he "looks to become the first Scottish fighter to win the HW title", because he was of Scottish descent. Wouldn't that seem odd to you?


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

americanfighter said:


> i watch the advertisements and it looks like they are trying to play this off as Mexico vs USA. they show a mexican flag for cain and an american flag for brock. also sayin cain could be the first mexican champ but cain isnt mexican. He is american he was born in america lives in america and trains in america. His father was from mexico but he is not.


It is inaccurate that they refer to him as the "first Mexican fighter" and not the first "Mexican-American fighter". "Mexican-American" would be accurate, even if you don't like the concept of hypenated Americans, (that's another argument altogether, not for MMA boards.)...but to call him "Mexican" is just flat out factually incorrect, and I don't know if CV wanted it said that way or the UFC did, who knows.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

i like mexican chicks. i like american chicks. i like mexican-american chicks. 

ultimately that is my position on this subject.

also selma hayek is mexican-american. i rest my case!


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## oldfan (Mar 14, 2010)

Well said.


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## wiwi07 (Oct 8, 2010)

What Ever You Say He Is Mexican He Is Not White Black Or Yellow He Is Brown And Likes To Eat Tacos An Tamales Carne Asada And Hot Slasa Chiles Etc So Be It


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

Oldfan. I'm starting to really enjoy sharing these forums with you. Best part of that whole movie....


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## wiwi07 (Oct 8, 2010)

arianny celeste ITS MEXICNA TOO BURN AND RACE UN LAS VEGAS USA BUT FROM MEXICNA PARENTS FROM GUADALAJARA MEXICO SEARCH PEOPLE





http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LQCtIB9T2...ADKY/Nar5ssx-RdI/s1600/arianny_celeste_13.jpg


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

Wiwi07, I'm thinking you shouldn't worry too much about your longevity here.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

wiwi can you bend over for a second bud


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## LiteGladiator (Jun 22, 2010)

Dictionary.com: "a native or inhabitant of Mexico, or *a person of Mexican descent*."

Cain is mexican. Though I really do like xeberus' argument aswell. Hot chicks FTW!


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## wiwi07 (Oct 8, 2010)

xeberus and Fieos sother smart thing to say


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

*gets ready to close thread*


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

I think all the intelligent discussion has winded down and we are left, well....page 23. Might be time to end this.


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