# What will happen to Women's MMA now that the UFC owns SF



## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

*What will happen to Women's MMA now that Zuffa owns SF*

Do you think that Zuffa/UFC will try Women's MMA or do you think after the contracts are up they will disband it all together. ?


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## dario03 (Oct 8, 2008)

If they really do keep Strikeforce seperate it will probably carry on. But if they merge them within the next year or two they'll probably cut it. Hopefully they keep it either way, theres not much talent but they don't have to have a ton of fights.


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

If they drop the women's division it would be a big mistake in my opinion. Probably not from a business standpoint, but these girls deserve to fight in front of big crowds as much as any male fighter.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> If they drop the women's division it would be a big mistake in my opinion. Probably not from a business standpoint, but these girls deserve to fight in front of big crowds as much as any male fighter.


No...


No they ****ing don't.

It's actually an embarrassment to the sport.

I might have to strangle Dana if he sells out.

That Coenen vs that gorilla **** was probably one of the worst displays of fighting I've ever seen. The punches from full mount were the absolute epitome of little girly punches.


I'd tolerate a junior division with kids before I tolerate women.


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## Mike28 (Aug 11, 2010)

Business as usual... lol

Seriously though unless a big infuse of talent come along in the next couple years when they merge with the UFC it will get debanded. Not enough quality fighters.


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

Roflcopter said:


> No...
> 
> 
> No they ****ing don't.
> ...


^This

I'm sorry, but I just can't watch it.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

The UFC can't carry 9 divisions, I'm not even sold that they will be able to keep the 135lb.


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## BWoods (Apr 8, 2007)

John8204 said:


> The UFC can't carry 9 divisions, I'm not even sold that they will be able to keep the 135lb.


Good thing they won't. Strikeforce and the UFC will be separate entities. This won't be like the Pride deal because the office structure is already in place at Strikeforce. Also, Zuffa won't be dealing with the mafia in an attempt to even keep a foothold.

Strikeforce will be Strikeforce, the UFC will be the UFC. Changing of owners does not equal changing of all staff. I just foresee a lot of fighters released from the UFC going to Strikeforce and a lot of fighters in Strikeforce being promoted to the UFC. The UFC will be come the elite organization while Strikeforce will be like the development league.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

John8204 said:


> The UFC can't carry 9 divisions, I'm not even sold that they will be able to keep the 135lb.


135 has got serious up and coming talent. Least of my worries.


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## SerJ (Sep 17, 2009)

Mike28 said:


> Business as usual... lol
> 
> Seriously though unless a big infuse of talent come along in the next couple years when they merge with the UFC it will get debanded. Not enough quality fighters.


Agreed. Dana said there just isn't enough talent so I bet they get rid of the women once the contracts are completed. I'm sure there will be another promotion to pick up the women and give them an opportunity though.


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

It will be phased out after 2 years.


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

BWoods said:


> Good thing they won't. Strikeforce and the UFC will be separate entities. This won't be like the Pride deal because the office structure is already in place at Strikeforce. Also, Zuffa won't be dealing with the mafia in an attempt to even keep a foothold.
> 
> Strikeforce will be Strikeforce, the UFC will be the UFC. Changing of owners does not equal changing of all staff. I just foresee a lot of fighters released from the UFC going to Strikeforce and a lot of fighters in Strikeforce being promoted to the UFC. *The UFC will be come the elite organization while Strikeforce will be like the development league.*


Everybody keeps saying this. I just don't see that happening. Zuffa has worked very hard at growing the UFC brand; what would the point of having another organization with lesser fighters be? As soon as the Shotime deal is up SF will fold. 

The up-and-comers will fight on the undercards. That will be the pseudo-developmental league.


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## SpecC (Nov 18, 2007)

Sadly, I have to agree with the gentlemen above. It won't live because it's neither good right now on a business standpoint or by the fans' standpoint.

I'd like to compare it to NBA vs WNBA. NBA simply has more guys at this top level than the WNBA does. It's why the WBNA has empty seats, and a only VERY poorly run NBA organization has empty seats on a consistent basis. 

Also, I hate to admit this. Half the reason (at least half, I think) women's MMA got even a touch of fame is because Gina Carano was a good looking girl. Was she even the best? She was relatively good. However, she wasn't the best. 

The audience is predominantly male in the ages of 18-40. Yeah, we appreciate good competition. The women's division isn't providing good fights consistently enough to warrant keeping them.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

So its a unanimous belief that after SF contracts are up it will be pushed out. Pity really.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

SpecC said:


> Sadly, I have to agree with the gentlemen above. It won't live because it's neither good right now on a business standpoint or by the fans' standpoint.
> 
> I'd like to compare it to NBA vs WNBA. NBA simply has more guys at this top level than the WNBA does. It's why the WBNA has empty seats, and a only VERY poorly run NBA organization has empty seats on a consistent basis.
> 
> ...


At some point, Strikeforce's women division was going to transpose into a WWE Diva's type of deal, where it is more of a 5 minute sideshow of the hottest bodybuilders and athletic girls they can find and have them roll around and whatnot.


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## HellRazor (Sep 24, 2006)

I think once the Showtime contract is up, the women are gonne. I find that unfortunate because the best of them are good fighters, and the best fights are very entertaining. But there just aren't enough good fighters. The Coenen-Carmouche was a good fight. So was Coenen-Kaufman.

If Cyborg was willing to drop down, you could have a decent 135 women's division. Cyborg, Coenen, Kaufman, Bazsler, Carmouche ....

But none of this is relevant, because Dana has long said he won;t promote women's fights, and unless somebody compelling comes along, he won't change his mind. Compelling meaning brings their own audience a la Lesnar.


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## malice (Sep 28, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> No...
> 
> 
> No they ****ing don't.
> ...


I personally enjoy watching cyborg beat some other women's ass for 3 rounds. But that's just me.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Roflcopter said:


> No...
> 
> 
> No they ****ing don't.
> ...


Wow... Coenen/Carmouche was probably the second best fight on the card. Carnouche's gnp needs improvement but Coenen did ride out three rounds of it to pull off a slick triangle. It was a good fight and it wasn't the first women's mma fight I have found entertaining.

Women's mma is behind the guys mma because they haven't had a venue for it. You give them the same chance and you will start to get real skilled and athletic fighters in there. And they deserve that chance.

And, by the by, Carmouche's GNP was at least attempting to inflict harm and wasn't say Chael's "Please God Don't Stand Me Up" chops to Anderson.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> No...
> 
> 
> No they ****ing don't.
> ...


Yeah it was like I was watching Jake Shields from mount so girly. 

Strikeforce, Bellator, and smaller orgs will continue to have womens fights.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Roflcopter said:


> No...
> 
> 
> No they ****ing don't.
> ...


I agree, but I think you are a little overboard. They aren't an "embarrassment to the sport".

But if it took the UFC that long to have 145 and 135 divisions because the divisions have been too thin...then why on earth would they install a womens division?

Personally, I don't find the fights that entertaining. And the divisions are too thin to be credible. 

They will stay on SF...and if a merge happens I think and I hope they will get rid of them.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

There's really no reason to disband women's MMA. White has said that the only reason there's no women's MMA in the UFC right now, is the lack of high level talent, per weightclass. Overall, there's a decent talent pool, but, there's not a big number of high level competitors in each weight class. 

However, I can go on Youtube and link dozens of videos of women competiting in MMA. Which means that its an innevitability that more high level female competitors will come to light over the next 3-5 years. Especially when you can put women's MMA and the UFC in the same sentence. 

I expect that in 3-5 years the women's MMA landscape would look similar to the HW division's landscape. A handful of seriously skilled and wellrounded competitors, a bulk group of meh quality ponies, and a bunch of cans. 

This however is comparing an entire segment of the sport to one division. My personal opinion: Lose 145, leave 135 (WW) and add 125 (LW). These weight classes cater to a larger group of competitors, hate to suggest to screw Cyborg, but Carano and Coenen fought her at nearly their walking weight. That change can add significantly to the likelihood of a deeper talent pool. Which is what White wants. 

Look at the UFC's history. They closed down divisions because of a lack of talent. Zuffa did the same with the WEC, closing their LHW, MW, and WW divisions. I think a change in division is a much more intelligent option than throwing women's MMA out.


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## Rastaman (Feb 25, 2010)

Definitely keep it, the talent pool will increase in the coming years especially if its under the UFC banner.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Rastaman said:


> Definitely keep it, the talent pool will increase in the coming years especially if its under the UFC banner.


Hopefully. It's not like the UFC had a really deep talent pool from start on. It evolved over the time and woman's MMA started later. I don't think they will have a talent pool anywhere near of men's MMA in the next decades, but it would definitely evolve and grow if they give it a chance.


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## Evo (Feb 12, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> No...
> 
> 
> No they ****ing don't.
> ...


As harsh as it sounds I agree. I've only seen one or two fights but I was BORED out of my mind. They have no strength or power in anything they do, it's like watching 15 year old kids fight


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## SpecC (Nov 18, 2007)

Voiceless said:


> Hopefully. It's not like the UFC had a really deep talent pool from start on. It evolved over the time and woman's MMA started later. I don't think they will have a talent pool anywhere near of men's MMA in the next decades, but it would definitely evolve and grow if they give it a chance.


...or ever

Fighting in general is a boy's game and so are a lot of other sports. Girls are generally not as encouraged to do these sports as much as boys are, so the quality isn't going to be as high.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

SpecC said:


> ...or ever
> 
> Fighting in general is a boy's game and so are a lot of other sports. Girls are generally not as encouraged to do these sports as much as boys are, so the quality isn't going to be as high.


In general fighting is associated with boys, yes, but ask for example Israeli women who do their duty in the military, or look up history where for example Vietnamese fighting women were essential in stopping Chinese occupation in the early days of Vietnam. There probably won't be as many MMA women as men in the near future, but nonetheless as the business grows also the talent pool will rise. And quality-wise women MMA is not really worse than HW men MMA where apart from some exeptions some blown up muscle guys just brawl without any technique worth mentioning until one of them gets a lucky punch or runs out of gas after 3 minutes.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Evo said:


> As harsh as it sounds I agree. I've only seen one or two fights but I was BORED out of my mind. They have no strength or power in anything they do, it's like watching 15 year old kids fight


Were said kids female?

Otherwise that's an insult to 15 year old kid fights.


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

Although I am not a huge fan of womens mma at the moment (partially due to the small talent pool), I gotta say that Cybors kicks looked painful lol.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

I'd say cut it or have it on as prelims or something. As womens mma goes cyborg is the only legitimate fighter I've ever seen. And people are all over her mad skills.. They are mad skills because she is a she. She doesn't hold a candle to even the mediocre fighters that are her male counterparts. I watch fights to the best fight. Don't get me wrong I enjoy an occasional brawl, but I pay to see the best.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

This is the only thing that concerns me in this purchase. Zuffa has made it clear that they do not want to mess with womans MMA... Strikeforce is the largest promotion that puts on womans MMA. 

It doesn't look good for the girls with this purchase.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

xeberus said:


> I'd say cut it or have it on as prelims or something. As womens mma goes *cyborg is the only legitimate fighter* I've ever seen. And people are all over her mad skills.. They are mad skills because she is a she. She doesn't hold a candle *to even the mediocre fighters that are her male counterparts*. I watch fights to the best fight. Don't get me wrong I enjoy an occasional brawl, but I pay to see the best.


Coenen, Carano, Fujii. Just to name three other legitimate well rounded fighters. 

I think they compare remarkably well to their male counterparts by weightclass. (135, 145, 115).


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## michelangelo (Feb 1, 2009)

The women's divisions will fold once the contracts are up. At that point, some of the smaller promotions will sign cyborg and carano and a few others, so there will still be women's fights somewhere. It will not be on a zuffa stage however.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Coenen, Carano, Fujii. Just to name three other legitimate well rounded fighters.
> 
> I think they compare remarkably well to their male counterparts by weightclass. (135, 145, 115).


i know all three and ive seen them fight, we both know what you just said was a pretty big stretch. coenen and carano, they are pretty well rounded. And Fujii is a wizard on the ground. But these three do not compare like cristiane, who I was only comparing, these three fall short by a distance to even be compared to mediocre male fighters. Megumi is definitely my favorite of the three to watch. And I would watch carano if she fights again, but it wouldnt be entirely for... fighting merit


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## MrObjective (May 22, 2010)

It will disappear.


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## slapshot (May 4, 2007)

Dana already said he changed his mind about woman's MMA about a year ago so Im hoping they build it up.

If they put a little effort into it we could see some good fights. 

I love woman's MMA.


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## Squirrelfighter (Oct 28, 2009)

xeberus said:


> i know all three and ive seen them fight, we both know what you just said was a pretty big stretch. coenen and carano, they are pretty well rounded. And Fujii is a wizard on the ground. But these three do not compare like cristiane, who I was only comparing, these three fall short by a distance to even be compared to mediocre male fighters. Megumi is definitely my favorite of the three to watch. And I would watch carano if she fights again, but it wouldnt be entirely for... fighting merit


How do they fall short. 

Fujii, the best 115lb female fighter by a huge margin. He's only lost a few times, and makes most opponent's look like its their first day in the gym. She's a wizard on the ground who can set up a ground finish with her stand up. (The exact same description as Damien Maia)

Coenen, the top 135er. She's got pretty good stand up, even better JJ, and more heart than a whole lot of male fighters I've seen. Powershots or not, it takes intestinal fortitude to get the shit smacked out of you for 3 rounds before pulling out the miracle sub. The ability to come back from dominant GnP adveristy to finish the opponent by miracle triangle choke, sounds remarkably like the description of a 6'3" Brazilian fellow we all know. 

Carano has tons of hype. She's a legitimate MT fighter who's beat the snot out of female Thai fighters on the feet, and in MMA has done pretty well for herself. The only blemish on her record is against the (wo)man who has the title. 

The point being, the actions of female fighters has a comparative to their male counterparts. There are plenty of technically skilled versatile female fighters. But you can't compare someone with the muscle density and strength of a 135lbs woman to someone with the muscle density and strength of a 170, 185lb man (its like comparing Kenny Florian to Cain Velasquez). Technically you can, but when it comes to KOs, and muscle focused activities like dirty boxing/top control, stylistically, its a whole 'nother ball game. The physicological differences make a comparison between the two foolish and moot.


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## Ming Fu (May 10, 2010)

Gina Carano for ring girl anyone?


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Squirrelfighter said:


> How do they fall short.
> 
> Fujii, the best 115lb female fighter by a huge margin. He's only lost a few times, and makes most opponent's look like its their first day in the gym. She's a wizard on the ground who can set up a ground finish with her stand up. (The exact same description as Damien Maia)
> 
> ...


In almost every way.

Megumi is good on the ground, but her striking is terrible. Comparing her to maia is an insult, she will never be as good as maia is right now at any point in her career. 

Coenen's stand up is also pretty bad, not as bad as megumi but its atrocious. She does have plenty of heart, more than some of her male counterparts. 

Carano is hot and has striking legitimate striking creds. But speed/power/explosiveness is the bread, butter and wine of striking and she just doesn't have enough to be a real top level striker. 

The statement, "the actions of female fighters has a comparative to their male counterparts." is true in the sense that a honda civic is comparable to a corvette in a race. 

I'm comparing them by weight class. Cyborg to kenny florian, frankie edgar (about the same size), jose aldo etc, coenen to urijah etc. Megumi is amazing as destroying girls the size of my anerexic ex-gf.. Actually my ex was bigger than those girls x.X 

Well they are comparable because they are doing the same activity. Its just the level at which they do the activity is far separated, which is what im saying.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

Squirrelfighter said:


> Fujii, the best 115lb female fighter by a huge margin. He's only lost a few times, and makes most opponent's look like its their first day in the gym.


Just for the record, Fujii lost only _once_ and that was a clear robbery decision.

With your whole post I would basically agree, though I also agree with Xerebus that they are not on the same level as their top male counterparts, also not technique-wise - not yet. But, as I've already written before, women are still quite new in MMA and in the beginning of the UFC there also was not a big talent pool of male fighter's and the technical level was nowhere near of what there is today, hence everybody points out the big and fast evolutions in MMA. Obviously that's something people tend to forget. So women MMA should also be given the time to evolve and it should be in public, as it was with male MMA, to attract new talents and give the synergetic effects for evolution.


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## UFC_OWNS (Jul 7, 2010)

an organisation like the ufc doesnt have to waste valuable card space with these new divs and loads of talent everywhere to make room for the womens div, i mean maybe japanese promotions and bellator and smaller orgs wanna do it but no not the ufc and they shouldn't. im not going to say women dont do mma just quit, do whatever you want but most of us dont want womens fights on the biggest fighting organisation in the world.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

Embarrassing. Hopefully it will be eradicated from the sport for good. Girls shouldn't fight like that, I cant even watch it.


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## Phil Davis (Nov 22, 2010)

I would watch fat chicks fight.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

Phil Davis said:


> I would watch fat chicks fight.


In custard?


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## Phil Davis (Nov 22, 2010)

Killstarz said:


> In custard?


Sure.

Whatever makes you happy.


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## Sekou (Oct 25, 2008)

Roflcopter said:


> No...
> 
> 
> No they ****ing don't.
> ...


sounds like someone is a slight bit insecure about insignificant genitalia... :laugh:


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

Sekou said:


> sounds like someone is a slight bit insecure about insignificant genitalia... :laugh:


My genitalia was rather significant.. To your mom last night ;D 

Jk sorry, Im loopy and immature as he'll today


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Mckeever said:


> Embarrassing. Hopefully it will be eradicated from the sport for good. Girls shouldn't fight like that, I cant even watch it.


Seriously? People still say this kind of thing in the modern day? What is the difference between men fighting and women fighting? 

There isn't any difference. At all. If they want to fight let them. It's their choice. Your - rather small minded - view shouldn't affect whether or not these women can do what they love.


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## Sambo de Amigo (Sep 24, 2010)

deadmanshand said:


> Seriously? People still say this kind of thing in the modern day? What is the difference between men fighting and women fighting?
> 
> There isn't any difference. At all. If they want to fight let them. It's their choice. Your - rather small minded - view shouldn't affect whether or not these women can do what they love.


Posts like that should be ignored , i can see the point that Womens MMA lacks talent and depth but this is very narrowed minded and reminds me of the stone edge mentality that Women arent equal to Men.

With this view he may as well suggest scrapping all womens sports entirely since they cant do anything physically better than Men can.


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## Mckeever (Apr 26, 2009)

deadmanshand said:


> Seriously? People still say this kind of thing in the modern day? What is the difference between men fighting and women fighting?
> 
> There isn't any difference. At all. If they want to fight let them. It's their choice. Your - rather small minded - view shouldn't affect whether or not these women can do what they love.


Yea, actually, I did go over board with my comments, apologies. They can choose to do what ever they want and fight if they want, of course. I just personally don't like watching it. I'd much prefer to see them wrestling in the mud :thumb02:


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## Soojooko (Jun 4, 2009)

We need to remind ourselves that the male fighters looked like complete shit 15 years ago. Its took years of evolution to reach what we see today. By comparison, women are at the beginning of their journey now. Of course they look like shit. They need to grow and evolve the same way. But no. some of you want to just eradicate it and get them biatches back in the kitchen, right? :sarcastic12:

Bollocks! I for one cant wait to see womens fighting evolve to the point where, maybe in 10 or 15 years, they will have improved as much, if not more, than the men have over their first 15 years in the sport. It needs to start somewhere. People need to stop criticizing these amazing women and support them instead.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

From another thread a nice find by RoyCisneros:






...what a beautiful sub at 6:05


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

Same here, I really enjoy female MMA for various reasons (some I'm not particularily proud of...)
But there are some decent wars in female MMA, of course the skill can't be compared to top of the line UFC fighters, but the potential is here to make it a big part of MMA in a few years of time, if promoted decently (and we know Zuffa can be pretty good at this).

SF could be the perfect "lab" for this, give it a bit more exposure, wait some time, see if you get some incoming talent and you can probably make it entertaining enough.

On a psychological level, female MMA is very different and brings another dimension to the table.

and well... I'm all for MMA and actual great fighters and whatnot, but come on, what is wrong with you guys ? you wouldn't watch two chicks going after each other for 15 minutes ? 

truth is, I NEVER watch female MMA when my wife is around, I don't know how she would take it, feels a bit like watching some sort of "porn" in the way that you don't really do it in front of people... anyway...

all for female MMA, the skill's decent, so are the chicks, bring it on already!


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

hadoq said:


> truth is, I NEVER watch female MMA when my wife is around, I don't know how she would take it, feels a bit like watching some sort of "porn" in the way that you don't really do it in front of people... anyway...


If female MMA is some sort of lesbian porn substitution, what makes that then of male MMA¿ :confused02:


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## f4rtknock3r (Nov 22, 2010)

I hope it does stick around because just like male fighters these girls fight for a living. But even with the help of the UFC these female fighters will never get big.


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## Sprawl_N_Brawl (Mar 17, 2011)

The people talking against Women's MMA sound just like the nay-sayers back in '92 and '93 when the Men's UFC first started. The talent pool was a hell of a lot shallower in the Men's ranks then than it is in the Women's ranks now, but people saw it for what it was - a genuine expression of combat, which showed the world what worked and what didn't.

Lots of people said it was too violent, even barbaric, that no one wanted to see blood pouring from huge gashes, that no state would sanction such a spectacle.

A funny thing happened, though - those in the know saw the true value of what was being presented, and it went on to change the face of martial arts and televised sporting events forever.

I wouldn't even consider paying to see a boxing match, but I'm the first one out the door to the local sports bar on UFC PPV nights. Lots of other guys feel the same way, and I think a lot of girls would too if they could see other girls testing their skills and determination and making a name for themselves.

The UFC really didn't take off until you could see fights for free on Spike, after which time everyone jumped on the bandwagon. Now, we need to do the same for the Women's division, give them the exposure they need to become mainstream and build a following.

The guys who are queasy about seeing girls defend themselves make me wonder - what would you want them to do if some putz assualted them and you weren't around? I would want my girls to be able to handle themselves confidently, using the skills that they picked up watching and practicing what worked for other girls in the same situation.

If you didn't mind watching teeth fly out of that sumo's mouth or seeing that pony-tail guy get a big new bald spot back in UFC1 and 2, I think you can handle a couple of sturdy girls duking it out for a few rounds. If not, vote with your remote. In any case, we should give them the mainstream exposure that the men get and see what happens. You just might be surprised...

More at:

http://open.salon.com/blog/sprawl_n_brawl/2011/03/14/womens_mma_and_girls_wrestling


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## hadoq (Jan 6, 2011)

Voiceless said:


> If female MMA is some sort of lesbian porn substitution, what makes that then of male MMA¿ :confused02:


see? that's exactly my point

joke aside, i totally agree with the guy above, give it a chance, some exposure, it'll work out.


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## KillerShark1985 (Jan 6, 2010)

I hope it continues, and I am sure it will, and despite the shit Dana's says about there not been a deep enough pool of womens fighters out there, what he really means is that there is not enough famous womens fighters out there, but check this site out and you will see there is a lot of womens fighters with good records, easily enough to run a couple of good divisions

http://www.fightergirls.com/fighters.asp?L=A

listed on the link is just the fighters with surnames starting with A, use the links alphabetic links to see the rest.


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