# ***OFFICIAL*** Mauricio "Shogun" Rua vs. Jon Jones Pre/Post Fight Discussion



## HitOrGetHit

****OFFICIAL*** Mauricio "Shogun" Rua vs. Jon Jones Pre/Post Fight Discussion*










*Shogun vs. Jones vBookie*

*Please direct all threads/conversation regarding this fight into this thread. All other threads will be merged into this one.*​


----------



## Guy Incognito

1 week to go already. it seemed like it was only announced two weeks ago. time seems to fly when you follow MMA


----------



## deansheppard

i got jones winning this, i dont know how though. Its really hard to picture jon jones finishing rua. I think he will use his reach and wrestling to dictate where the fight goes but with shogun in shape its not going to be easy. I will be happy with whoever wins.


----------



## El Bresko

i gotta go with Shogun but this is with the assumption that it is the same Shogun we saw against Lyoto in round 6.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

I have Shogun finishing Jones. His striking is elite and Jones' striking...well... while flashing and unpredictable, isn't exactly Shogun Status. On the ground, I see Jones getting swept. I would be very surprised if he could take Shogun down and control him all night.


----------



## tommydaone

I'm backing Jonny Bones Jones to take this  I think he will shock everyone (well maybe not to some) and dominate Shogun! Well I hope he does anyway


----------



## Dr Gonzo

On paper its Shogun all the way. Although I got a feeling about Jones. His reach and wrestling is the key. If Bones utilizes these skills in the most effective way he can I believe he has a good chance of decisioning Shogun.


----------



## chokeuout381

With the way shogun got robbed the first time with machida I don't think he'll even let it get to a decision


----------



## Dr Gonzo

chokeuout381 said:


> With the way shogun got robbed the first time with machida I don't think he'll even let it get to a decision


Ha, true dat!:thumb04:


----------



## jonnyg4508

Not sure here. Wouldn't be surprised with any outcome really. It is Shogun's finishing ability vs. Jones' wrestling and physical stature. The longer the fight goes the better for Jones. But Shogun can finish it at any time.

If I have to pick I will say Shogun 1st round heel hook.


----------



## andersen85

i went with shogun...2 of my favorite fighters but shogun has more ways to win. The only if for shogun is if his knee is healthy, there are many more ifs on the JBJ side


----------



## Mckeever

I think Jones is going to be in for quite a shock when he takes Rua down and he is instantly being threatened. He has never faced any one with a guard or ground game quite like Ruas, he's crazy aggressive. Theres going to be so much scrambling.


----------



## limba

Really eanna talk this fight through, but i am dead tired atm, so i'll leave it for tomorrow.

Just this: the fan inside me is screaming JON JONES ALL THE WAY!

The rational person that leaves in my head is having a serious debate, ever since the fight was announced. And the fan doesn't really wanna hear about it.

This fight is very interesting to dissect, from all angles!

Still, i'm gonna leave it for tomorrow!


----------



## No_Mercy

Shogun has showed that he can fight both on the ground and especially on the feet.

Jones always wins by GNP. What if Shogun is constantly threatening submissions and sweeps. What if Shogun takes Jones down...

We've seen Shogun take shots to the chin. We've seen Shogun go five full rounds. 

There's a lot of questions un-answered by Jones. 

Going with Shogun TKO by the 4th round. I do NOT want to see a 1st round stoppage either way. The build up has been too great for us to get let down. I would like to see a war!!!


----------



## Hammerlock2.0

Holy Crap It's Here Already??? Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo



Aaaaanyway...

I have Shogun by TKO in round 2.


----------



## GlasgowKiss

Heart says Shogun, but I really have no idea whats going to happen here. Too many intangibles, and presently unseen factors...

- Shogun's condition
- Jones' chin
- Shogun's guard, but is Jones too strong ?

I have no idea.


----------



## streetpunk08

I'll take Shogun 2nd round TKO. To me there are three keys to the fight.

1) Shogun's knee and his cardio as a result of that injury.

2) Can Jones hold Shogun down for extended period's of time.

3) How much damage does Jones absorb en route to those takedown's.

X-Factor: Shogun taking Jones down. Obviously Shogun's wrestling is pretty crappy but Shogun's striking is so dangerous and you have to respect it so much that it leaves guys off balance when Shogun goes for TD's. Also Shogun mixes in TD's with his striking pretty well which enhances their effectiveness despite his crappy wrestling. I'm not saying Shogun is going to outwrestle Jones but it would not be the shock of the century to me if Shogun gets a TD at some point during the fight.


----------



## cdtcpl

I picked Jones, but to be honest it is so easy for me to see either of these guys win. I just think Shogun's knee will be too much of a handicap for him. It's like watching the RB's in the NFL, they keep claiming they feel 100% after the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and so on, but it is clear they aren't. But hey, he can prove me wrong very easily.


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy

I had a dream last night that shogun knocked jones out cold with a huge right hand in the first round. It was so vivid and detailed that when I woke up in the morning the first thought I had was "damn, that fight didn't really happen." I was disappointed, but I'll take shogun via 1st round KO. We'll see if that dream was a premonition or wishful thinking.

I'm not writing Jones off and like others have mentioned there are just too many unknowns heading into this battle. Can not wait!


----------



## No_Mercy

sNuFf_rEaLiTy said:


> I had a dream last night that shogun knocked jones out cold with a huge right hand in the first round. It was so vivid and detailed that when I woke up in the morning the first thought I had was "damn, that fight didn't really happen." I was disappointed, but I'll take shogun via 1st round KO. We'll see if that dream was a premonition or wishful thinking.
> 
> I'm not writing Jones off and like others have mentioned there are just too many unknowns heading into this battle. Can not wait!


Can you confirm this. If so I'm putting $10 immediately on Shogun.


----------



## Sambo de Amigo

What annoys me about this fight is the fans.

If Shogun KO's Jones , the fan response will be Jones was over hyped and overated.

If Jones wins , the fan response will be is the P4P #1 is he the next GOAT and i will also hear that Shogun didnt lose properly because he had knee surgery. 


I know this will happen and it bugs me so bad.


----------



## sNuFf_rEaLiTy

No_Mercy said:


> Can you confirm this. If so I'm putting $10 immediately on Shogun.


haha. confirm what about it exactly? 

The dream was legit, if it was a premonition or wishful thinking won't be known until the fight. However, I once had a dream where I got hit in the face with a frisbee and the next day I got hit in the face with a frisbee. :thumb02:

I'll be putting all my credits on shogun.


----------



## Liddell67

*Why Jones? Please explain this madness*

Now I happen to think us MMA fans are against popular belief a rather intelligent sort.

I know we get a bit blind to our favourite fighters and always back them.
But (and before I go on I am a neutral on this fight)I just can't see where all this Jon Jones will win mania has come from.
It is MMA so of course he has a chance. Yes he looks a great fighter and I am sure he has a great future in the sport. But here is my problem.

Shogun Rua has fought some of the hardest men ever to walk into an MMA ring.
Rampage
Big Nog
Overeem(twice)
Coleman(twice)
Liddell
Machida(twice)-and lets remember before they fought this Forum was full of Machida will retire undefeated- he is unbeatable- no one will ever beat him......Shogun walked through him TWICE!

He beat them ALL.


Jones best victory
Ryan Bader!!!!!!!! Who....

Rua is champion.Hard earned even with his numerous injuries.

I'm not saying Jones won't win(though I don't think he will)

But HOW CAN HE BE FAVOURITE

Does not make sense to little old me....


----------



## K R Y

Liddell67 said:


> Now I happen to think us MMA fans are against popular belief a rather intelligent sort.
> 
> I know we get a bit blind to our favourite fighters and always back them.
> But (and before I go on I am a neutral on this fight)I just can't see where all this Jon Jones will win mania has come from.
> It is MMA so of course he has a chance. Yes he looks a great fighter and I am sure he has a great future in the sport. But here is my problem.
> 
> Shogun Rua has fought some of the hardest men ever to walk into an MMA ring.
> Rampage
> Big Nog
> Overeem(twice)
> Coleman(twice)
> Liddell
> Machida(twice)-and lets remember before they fought this Forum was full of Machida will retire undefeated- he is unbeatable- no one will ever beat him......Shogun walked through him TWICE!
> 
> He beat them ALL.
> 
> 
> Jones best victory
> Ryan Bader!!!!!!!! Who....
> 
> Rua is champion.Hard earned even with his numerous injuries.
> 
> I'm not saying Jones won't win(though I don't think he will)
> 
> But HOW CAN HE BE FAVOURITE
> 
> Does not make sense to little old me....


This really didn't need a new thread, so I'll be merging it into one of the millions of other Shogun/Jones threads after I reply.

He fought Lil Nog, not Big nog. And that fight was beyond close.

He did not 'walk through' Machida twice. He walked through him once. The first fight may of been a bad decision, but it wasn't lopsided.

Who else should of gotten this shot? Rashad was injured. Rampage turned it down. And Jones/Bader was a match between the two biggest up and comers in the LHW division. And both were undefeated (not technically due to a bad DQ but everyone knows Bones man handled Hamill like a rag doll)

He's probably the favourite due to Shogun having a long lay off and yet again coming off a knee surgery.

P.s I'm a Shogun fan more so than a Bones fan. But Bones earned his shot at the title. Would of he of had to fight 1-2 more times if Rashad wasn't injured? Or if Rampage said yes? Probably. But if's and but's go a long way im MMA sometimes, and the title shot went to the right guy.


----------



## jonnyg4508

Cool thread. Not like it hasn't been discussed in 9 different threads already.

Jones is younger, Jones is bigger, Jones is more athletic, Jones has some of the best wrestling in the division, Jones gets better every fight, Jones has made every guy he's fought look like a can, Jones is not coming off injury like Shogun, Jones is not coming off a layoff like Shogun, Jones trains at Greg Jackson, Jones has confidence.

I'm not saying he will win. But there are 1000 reasons why he could. If Shogun can lose to Forrest after injury...he can certainly lose to Jones coming off injury.

Again cool thread.


----------



## Ape City

Jones is the fav because last time Rua came off an injury he didn't look so hot. And obviously Jones dominating performances have a ton to do with it also.

Besides all you have to do is look at the vbookie on this forum and you can see why the odds are the this way. People are still voting for Jones as the fav!


----------



## mastodon2222

jonnyg4508 said:


> Not sure here. Wouldn't be surprised with any outcome really. It is Shogun's finishing ability vs. Jones' wrestling and physical stature. The longer the fight goes the better for Jones. But Shogun can finish it at any time.
> 
> If I have to pick I will say Shogun 1st round heel hook.


I could see that happening - I see Shogun on his back looking for leglocks, kneebars, heelhooks, etc...kind of like Mir vs. Lesnar I.


----------



## Hammerlock2.0

Ape City said:


> *Jones is the fav because last time Rua came off an injury he didn't look so hot.* And obviously Jones dominating performances have a ton to do with it also.
> 
> Besides all you have to do is look at the vbookie on this forum and you can see why the odds are the this way. People are still voting for Jones as the fav!


Last time he came off an injury he took Machida to a decision and knocked out Machida in the first round in the rematch. Just saying...


----------



## mastodon2222

GlasgowKiss said:


> Heart says Shogun, but I really have no idea whats going to happen here. Too many intangibles, and presently unseen factors...
> 
> - Shogun's condition
> - Jones' chin
> - Shogun's guard, but is Jones too strong ?
> 
> I have no idea.


I think it will go to the ground, and the key to me is how good Jones' sub defense is. If it's good, I think he can GNP out a win; if not, I see him getting caught in a heel hook/leglock/kneebar.


----------



## mastodon2222

Hmmmm, the poll of members has Shogun by a 3-1 margin, but Vegas has _Jones_ at 2-1...I can't remember a fight where there was such a big discrepancy and is one reason why I'm really interested in this fight....are we voting with our hearts or are we just smarter than the Vegas bookmakers??? ;-)


----------



## streetpunk08

Liddell67 said:


> Now I happen to think us MMA fans are against popular belief a rather intelligent sort.
> 
> I know we get a bit blind to our favourite fighters and always back them.
> But (and before I go on I am a neutral on this fight)I just can't see where all this Jon Jones will win mania has come from.
> It is MMA so of course he has a chance. Yes he looks a great fighter and I am sure he has a great future in the sport. But here is my problem.
> 
> Shogun Rua has fought some of the hardest men ever to walk into an MMA ring.
> Rampage
> Big Nog
> Overeem(twice)
> Coleman(twice)
> Liddell
> Machida(twice)-and lets remember before they fought this Forum was full of Machida will retire undefeated- he is unbeatable- no one will ever beat him......Shogun walked through him TWICE!
> 
> He beat them ALL.
> 
> 
> Jones best victory
> Ryan Bader!!!!!!!! Who....
> 
> Rua is champion.Hard earned even with his numerous injuries.
> 
> I'm not saying Jones won't win(though I don't think he will)
> 
> But HOW CAN HE BE FAVOURITE
> 
> Does not make sense to little old me....


I have no idea why Jones is a favorite in the betting lines but as for the hype, that's the way it is in every sport these days. People hype the shit out of young talented guys. It happens in baseball (Stephen Strasuburg). It happens in basketball, people were comparing LeBron to Michael Jordan before playing a single NBA game, even now I think that comparison is ludacris. A guy runs a 4.3 at the combine and he's the next Gale Sayers or Barry Sanders. Hype surrounding the young athletes across all sports is upsurd these days.



mastodon2222 said:


> Hmmmm, the poll of members has Shogun by a 3-1 margin, but Vegas has _Jones_ at 2-1...I can't remember a fight where there was such a big discrepancy and is one reason why I'm really interested in this fight....are we voting with our hearts or are we just smarter than the Vegas bookmakers??? ;-)


I don't bet MMA and never have but I do bet college and pro football and college basketball and alot of times it's scary how accurate the lines are, especially the deeper into the season it gets.


----------



## Thelegend

ill go with the streaking fighter who is not coming off knee surgery. jones ftw.


----------



## Ape City

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Last time he came off an injury he took Machida to a decision and knocked out Machida in the first round in the rematch. Just saying...


he was injured before that? i was thinking of before the griffin fight.


----------



## khoveraki

Ape City said:


> Jones is the fav because last time Rua came off an injury he didn't look so hot. And obviously Jones dominating performances have a ton to do with it also.
> 
> Besides all you have to do is look at the vbookie on this forum and you can see why the odds are the this way. People are still voting for Jones as the fav!







Check the vbookie again. Dudeabides counts for like 99% of the creds bet on Jones.


----------



## Liddell67

KryOnicle said:


> This really didn't need a new thread, so I'll be merging it into one of the millions of other Shogun/Jones threads after I reply.
> 
> He fought Lil Nog, not Big nog. And that fight was beyond close.
> 
> He did not 'walk through' Machida twice. He walked through him once. The first fight may of been a bad decision, but it wasn't lopsided.
> 
> Who else should of gotten this shot? Rashad was injured. Rampage turned it down. And Jones/Bader was a match between the two biggest up and comers in the LHW division. And both were undefeated (not technically due to a bad DQ but everyone knows Bones man handled Hamill like a rag doll)
> 
> He's probably the favourite due to Shogun having a long lay off and yet again coming off a knee surgery.
> 
> P.s I'm a Shogun fan more so than a Bones fan. But Bones earned his shot at the title. Would of he of had to fight 1-2 more times if Rashad wasn't injured? Or if Rampage said yes? Probably. But if's and but's go a long way im MMA sometimes, and the title shot went to the right guy.


Hi,
I didn't ask if Jones was entitled to the shot.(that's a whole other debate).
No my point is going on the two records I can not understand how Jones can be favourite.


----------



## Soojooko

Liddell67 said:


> Hi,
> I didn't ask if Jones was entitled to the shot.(that's a whole other debate).
> No my point is going on the two records I can not understand how Jones can be favourite.


Aside from Jones looking like an amazing prospect, I think the knee surgery has played a huge part in making the odds seem lop sided.


----------



## Guy Incognito

Liddell67 said:


> Hi,
> I didn't ask if Jones was entitled to the shot.(that's a whole other debate).
> No my point is going on the two records I can not understand how Jones can be favourite.


It doesn't matter who shogun has beat. styles make fights and the style shogun appears to show a weakness against is wrestlers and also like Soojooko said shogun has been out for a long time because of the injury.

People know that and then decide to bet against shogun hence why he is not a favourite.


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5

Have you guys learned anything about MMA? People coming off of long layoffs due to major injuries DO NOT FARE WELL!

Look at Belfort getting KTFO against Silva after KTFOing Franklin.
Look at Patrick Cote getting upset by Belcher after putting up a good fight with Anderson Silva. 
Look at Rampage losing to Rashad after filming movies for a year.
Look at Franklin losing to Forrest after breaking his arm. 
Hell, look at Shogun getting SUBBED by forrest and looking awful against MARK COLEMAN!

I challenge somebody to find a fighter who looked good and won after coming off a major layoff due to injury, there's a reason why Jones is a 2-1 favorite in Vegas!


----------



## khoveraki

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> Have you guys learned anything about MMA? People coming off of long layoffs due to major injuries DO NOT FARE WELL!
> 
> Look at Belfort getting KTFO against Silva after KTFOing Franklin.
> Look at Patrick Cote getting upset by Belcher after putting up a good fight with Anderson Silva.
> Look at Rampage losing to Rashad after filming movies for a year.
> Look at Franklin losing to Forrest after breaking his arm.
> Hell, look at Shogun getting SUBBED by forrest and looking awful against MARK COLEMAN!
> 
> I challenge somebody to find a fighter who looked good and won after coming off a major layoff due to injury, there's a reason why Jones is a 2-1 favorite in Vegas!



I'll take that challenge. Shogun had a 10 month layoff (same as Jones fight) AND an injury after the first Machida fight, and he came back and knocked Lyoto out in a couple of minutes and never looked better.


----------



## limba

Well, tis fight has been talked about A LOT!

These are my 2 favorite LHWs, even though i favor one of them more then the other.

It's gonna be:

- Striking vs Wrestling
- Technique vs Power
- Experience vs Enthuasiasm 
.... and what i like the most, it's gonna be:

- Aggressive fighter vs Aggressive fighter

Striking:
Shogun is one of the best strikers in the LHW division. He combines speed, power and aggression in a very precise way. 
On top of this, add the fact that he has probably the best leg kicks in the division - and you get a very dangerous fighter.
The leg kicks are a very important part of Shogun's game: they can wear an opponent down very slowly and cause great discomfort (Machida I) or they can be used to set up his punches. Either way, they are dangerous.

Jones may not have such a top notch striking, but his overall stand-up is pretty good, thanks in particular to his unorthodox style. He is very creative with his stand-up and can pull out very surprising things.

Against Shogun though, i whink he will try to avoid doing to many flashy combiantions, because he knows Shogun is not someone to fool arround with.

Verdict: Advantage Shogun 
X-Factor: look for Jones to try and time Shogun's leg kicks and use this for his takedowns. Will he be able to do that?!

Wrestling: 
Jones has the advantage here. Great, explosive takedowns and he has beautiful trips and throws also. Plus, he is the bigger-stronger fighter and that gives him an extra edge on the gound.
Not that Shogun would be too scared about going to the ground, but i think he would like to avoid having Jones on top of him.
Shogun has better BJJ, but against such a big and powerful guy as Jones, who has shown excellent top control so far, i don't think Shogun can pull out any miracle subs from the bottom.
In fact, it's pretty hard to see submissions from the bottom in the big divisions - LHW and HW. 

Verdict: advantage Jones 
X-Factor: Shogun's famous sweeps. Will he be able to use them?!

Shogun has experience on his side: he is older, has more fights, has fought and beaten some of the biggest names in MMA. 
On the other side, Jones is young, he is hungry and he wants that belt. Many people see him as the new Shogun, because of the huge similarities between them, in terms of theier begginings in MMA.
Shogun fough for the first time for the Pride belt when he was 23 yrs old. Jones is in the same position fighting for the UFC belt for the first time. Shogun was 11-1 when he did that. Jones is 12-1. Both are very aggressive and like to cause "destruction".

But like every fight in wich 2 different styles collide, it's gonna come down to wich fighter can impose his style better. Easy as that.

Final verdict: i have this fight at 50/50. Of course i am rooting for Jones and i think he can/will take this fight. I believe Greg Jackson will have the perfect strategy for beating Shogun, but in the end it comes down to Jones applying it.

Final X-Factor: will Shogun feel any ring rust?! WIll the long absense from the ring make a big impact on his performance. Shogun says he is ready, so i guess we have to believe him.

My advice: enjoy a great fight guys!


----------



## malice

***** de Amigo said:


> What annoys me about this fight is the fans.
> 
> If Shogun KO's Jones , the fan response will be Jones was over hyped and overated.
> 
> If Jones wins , the fan response will be is the P4P #1 is he the next GOAT and i will also hear that Shogun didnt lose properly because he had knee surgery.
> 
> 
> I know this will happen and it bugs me so bad.


i couldn't agree more. i think the same ideology applied to brock lesnar.


----------



## Stapler

You could at least spell Jon's name right in the poll, haha.

This fight is so hard to call for me. I'm hoping that Jones is able to reach gold, but even if he does lose, he's still young and he has a lot of time to improve. Greg Jackson even stated that. He wouldn't be too upset if Jones loses because there is still so much time that he can learn more and get better.


----------



## DragonStriker

As much as I love both fighters I really want Jones to win, it would be insane if he actually won the title at this young stage of his career.


----------



## Syxx Paq

I'm still in the dark as to why Shogun is getting to fight Jones and not Rashad... can someone enlighten me?


----------



## Ape City

Rashad was injured so after the Bones/Bader fight Bones was offered the title shot.


----------



## dudeabides

Hmm, wonder if Jon Jones is enjoying this title fight experience :confused02:


----------



## Guy Incognito




----------



## Dream-On-101

How anyone can state the outcome of this match with any certainty is beyond me. There are simply just too many variables, and my opinion of how the fight will go changes every day. 

IF (and thats a big if judging by past performances) Shogun comes in 100% healthy, then i see him taking this. Either by KO or by Sub. I just dont think Jones is quite ready for someone like Shogun...not yet anyway. 

If Shogun comes in looking like he did against Coleman for example (please God no) then Jones should be able to out-wrestle him and control him. But then again, Jones is possibly capable of doing this to a healthy Shogun. The way he has man-handled wrestlers like Hamill (far superior than Shogun in that department) and how he controlled Bader like a small child (which he certainly isnt) makes me worry for Shogun. 

Basically, too many variables. Can Jones take a punch? Is he mentally strong enough when the fight isnt going 100% his way as every other one has. Will either of them have the cardio to go hard for 25 minutes?

I dont know. I cant wait to find out. 

War Shogun!


----------



## SM33

I like Rua's interview more, much more neutral and he seems of a better state of mind than Jon, more relaxed. Rua didn't mention Jon's ground game, just spoke of the KO. I don't think he's worried about the ground because Jones leaves things out for the taking and Rua can capitalise on that... contrary to popular belief. 

I think Shogun will rush hard early, put Jones on skates and KO him within several attacks, Jones usually spends a minute or two feeling out, I think Shogun will put it to him early and not let him settle. Just the fact that he mentioned Jones' lack of power, which I don't think he's ever said about a fighter except after Machida 1, means we can expect ultra-aggression, I don't think Jon can weather it.


----------



## limba

SM33 said:


> I like Rua's interview more, much more neutral and he seems of a better state of mind than Jon, more relaxed.


I think that is the experrience talking right there. 
It's undeniable that Shogun is more experienced than Jones.
But Jones' ethusiasm is good also. 
This fight needs this.
The fans want this.
Nobody wants a chicken stepping into the cage against a guy like Shogun.



SM33 said:


> Rua didn't mention Jon's ground game, just spoke of the KO. I don't think he's worried about the ground because Jones leaves things out for the taking and Rua can capitalise on that... contrary to popular belief.
> I think Shogun will rush hard early, put Jones on skates and KO him within several attacks, Jones usually spends a minute or two feeling out, I think Shogun will put it to him early and not let him settle. Just the fact that he mentioned Jones' lack of power, which I don't think he's ever said about a fighter except after Machida 1, means we can expect ultra-aggression, I don't think Jon can weather it.


No doubt Shogun will try and KO Jones: that's his main objective in all of his fights.
And, even though he is a great grappler, he knows he has better chances in this fight if he keeps it standing. that's for sure.
As far as Jones' lack of power. A 220 lbs+ fighter such as Jones clearly has power.
I believe Shogun was reffering to his striking and the fact that Jones doesn't put to much power in his punches. Jones uses his striking for setting his TDs, there's no secret in that.
As far as Shogun going ALL OUT early: it could happen. Shogun has a great killer instinct.
But i think he won't do it, because if he exposes himself too much, Jones will take him down. No doubt!

Shogun's grappling will be tested this saturday.


----------



## kc1983

I still think Jones is the real deal and he IS as good as the UFC hype machine makes him out to be. The guy absolutely decimated every single fighter that has been put in front of him. Literally. And don't give me this "he hasn't faced top competition" crap. Bonnar, Matyushenko, Hamill and Bader were all extremely tough guys and Jones made them look like complete schmucks. 

Jones is going to win.


----------



## Atilak

I love and hate this fight  Im maybe biggest Shogun fight on this forum. Opposite to Limba. But I respect Jones a lot.

I was confident that Rua will beat Rashad, coz Evans has not that good top control and had problems with standup before. Jones is more tougher opponent for Shogun right know.


Limba sums it up pretty well. I agree with that.

Im really scared about Shoguns knee. I hope that he learned from mistakes made before and he will be ready this time. 100% form. If you watch his UDL training. Its much more sofisticated and modern than it was before. They came with great game plans. So does Jacksons.

There is some points for me in this fight:
1)Shogun cardio after injury
2)Shogun knee in the fight(He injured it in Machida, if it last longer, he would propably lost that fight)
3)Shogun ability to fight of his back(He has no chance of defending TD)
4)Jones chin
5)Jones mental game - biggest fight of his career
6)Jones top control


As experience goes. For Shogun is just another fight. He has many big fights in his career. For Jones could be overwhelming.(I think he is handling it good so far)

I have this fight 50/50. Only because of injury. Otherwise is 80/20 for me  So if Shogun will be strong and ready. I will have no doubt.

Edit: This situation kinda reminds me Machida fight. A lot of people have hard time see Machida losing. Shogun proved otherwise. Nice video about Shogun vs Machida http://www.vimeo.com/11727964 

I really hope that Shogun did something similar to Cain before Lesnar fight. There is no chance that he will defend a takedown at some point. So he need to be put in worst possible situation and try to get on his feet. Over and over and over again.


----------



## St.Paul Guy

Wow. I justed watched the 128 countdown show. Jon Jones really comes off as cocky. Now I really hope he gets knocked out or submitted in dramatic fashion.


----------



## SerJ

I'm going with Shogun on this one even if he has post surgery knees and rust. I don't think Jones is quite ready for that big fight under the shining lights moment. I know this may sound stupid, but I believe he is going to go in distracted from all the hype and not perform at his level. I believe 100% jones has the skills to beat Shogun, but for some reason, I don't think he will fight to that potential whether it's because he will fold under the pressure of being so talented at his age or getting that shot so quick. I just have that gut feeling that I'll hear Goldy on commentary saying "this is not the Bones Jones we are used to seeing." followed by a TKO from Rua in the 4th round. I just hope shogun doesn't gas in the 1st cuz my prediction will be out the window real quick!


----------



## Soojooko

I hope Jones doesnt do internet. Everybody is gushing about the boy. EVERYBODY. ( apart from Rashad. lol )

Hes the future. Fighter 3.0. The next generation/evolution of fighter. etc.

If the world was saying this about me, my ego would be the size of Jupiter by now. I'm interested to see how he copes with it/performs on fight night.

The last thing we need is either of these two guys not performing like we know they can.


----------



## oldfan

No worries sooki. If Jones chokes his worshipers will blame it on Rashad causing a distraction.

If Shogun flops his will blame the knee.


----------



## Soojooko

oldfan said:


> No worries sooki. If Jones chokes his worshipers will blame it on Rashad causing a distraction.
> 
> If Shogun flops his will blame the knee.


... and the world keeps on turning, old friend.


----------



## SM33

Soojooko said:


> I hope Jones doesnt do internet. Everybody is gushing about the boy. EVERYBODY. ( apart from Rashad. lol )
> 
> Hes the future. Fighter 3.0. The next generation/evolution of fighter. etc.
> 
> If the world was saying this about me, my ego would be the size of Jupiter by now. I'm interested to see how he copes with it/performs on fight night.
> 
> The last thing we need is either of these two guys not performing like we know they can.


Of course Jones does internet, he's 23 and copies moves off Youtube. Part of the reason for his smugness is that he is very aware of the hype and stupid things people say about him. Notice how his controversial comments/arrogance have become more frequent in line with his growing hype. 

Jon is not the future or an evolution of the sport, he is a one-dimensional fighter aided by his size, who drops his hands when pulling back from a punch... Shogun has better skills, a better mind and a better fight game, and he had all this before he was 'Fighter 3.0's age.


----------



## Calibretto9

Every time I go to type a response my opinion changes. I honestly don't know how to call his fight. Jones is incredible but I have a hard time imagining Shogun losing. There's one thing that's holding back my excitement about this fight and that's Shogun's constant surgeries. In the Coleman and Griffin fights he was extremely lackluster due to injuries. Those surgeries have me worried. I'm hoping they're behind him and that both guys are on their top games. I have a hard time imagining either lose so I'll just sit back with a brewskie and enjoy.


----------



## Dr Gonzo

SM33 said:


> Of course Jones does internet, he's 23 and copies moves off Youtube. Part of the reason for his smugness is that he is very aware of the hype and stupid things people say about him. Notice how his controversial comments/arrogance have become more frequent in line with his growing hype.
> 
> *Jon is not the future or an evolution of the sport, he is a one-dimensional fighter aided by his size,* who drops his hands when pulling back from a punch... Shogun has better skills, a better mind and a better fight game, and he had all this before he was 'Fighter 3.0's age.


A little harsh I reckon. Hes an unorthodox rangy striker with quick hands. He has some amazing throws, double underhooks etc, and has very solid grappling skills (it cant be all pure strength!). Theres more than one dimension to him. And hes only 23 which is going to give him time to develop his technique in regards to his striking and subs.


----------



## khoveraki

I remember when Lesnar was the future of the HW division because of his huge reach, giant size, "INSANE TAKE-DOWNS" and "CRAZY POWER." When he knocked Herring down with that punch I'm pretty sure 90% of people decided he'd be champion forever and ever and nobody under 265 would ever be HW champion again.



Lesnar was gonna be the "new breed."


----------



## DragonStriker

I can't wait for this fight man I see a lot of people are going all in for Shogun but man if Jones pulls this off I am going to fo freaking nuts. If he loses its all cool Shogun is still one of my favorites.


----------



## limba

SM33 said:


> Of course Jones does internet, he's 23 and copies moves off Youtube. Part of the reason for his smugness is that he is very aware of the hype and stupid things people say about him. Notice how his controversial comments/arrogance have become more frequent in line with his growing hype.
> 
> Jon is not the future or an evolution of the sport, he is a one-dimensional fighter aided by his size, who drops his hands when pulling back from a punch... Shogun has better skills, a better mind and a better fight game, and he had all this before he was 'Fighter 3.0's age.


1. Don't hate so much...
He is 23 years old, with 2 years fight experience and 4 years MMA training.
Escuse him fo not being the super skilled fighter you want him to be. 

2. If he's one-dimensional, then so are 80% of all MMA fighters in the UFC.

_________
EDIT:

And about the Internet thing: i agree with Soojooko.
And i consider he is too exposed to the media these days.
I don't know what kind of obligations he has to do all these appearences on TV shows, radio shows, autograph signings, public meetings and stuff like that.
Plus, every 3rd article you read on an MMA related site is something about Jones.
Any fan would like hearring news about one of his favorite fighters, no matter who that is. But i would like those news to be more about his fights and trainings, than about his time off. That's great also, but right now it feels like the media is abusing of the Jon Jones subject, because "he is HOT" and on BIG demand, trying to make the most out of it - ratings + whatever media means (marketing, internet traffic...and others).
This is what creates the biggest HYPE. 
And i don't think a young rising fighter such as Jones can stand up to the UFC and say: "i won't go to that meeting or i won't do that show, because i'd rather train or meditate about the fight..."
It's not normal for a fighter to be so exposed to "the media army", but there is not much he can't do about it, once he's started.
This is what i'm talking about (before the press conference today):


> Jones nodded in agreement, the showman tacitly acknowledging his duty in entertaining the fans. *That was the order of the long day for Jones, who woke up at 5 am to do a morning show interview and has media priorities throughout the day to go with his two training sessions.* But the possible heir to the light-heavyweight throne was happy to do his part to continue the push to get MMA regulated in the Empire State.


Whole story/article

So far Jones has shown he can handle it. I believe he can do it from here on now also. Feet on the ground is the way to go...


----------



## Sambo de Amigo

limba said:


> 1. Don't hate so much...
> He is 23 years old, with 2 years fight experience and 4 years MMA training.
> Escuse him fo not being the super skilled fighter you want him to be.
> 
> 2. If he's one-dimensional, then so are 80% of all MMA fighters in the UFC.
> 
> _________
> EDIT:
> 
> And about the Internet thing: i agree with Soojooko.
> And i consider he is too exposed to the media these days.
> I don't know what kind of obligations he has to do all these appearences on TV shows, radio shows, autograph signings, public meetings and stuff like that.
> Plus, every 3rd article you read on an MMA related site is something about Jones.
> Any fan would like hearring news about one of his favorite fighters, no matter who that is. But i would like those news to be more about his fights and trainings, than about his time off. That's great also, but right now it feels like the media is abusing of the Jon Jones subject, because "he is HOT" and on BIG demand, trying to make the most out of it - ratings + whatever media means (marketing, internet traffic...and others).
> This is what creates the biggest HYPE.
> And i don't think a young rising fighter such as Jones can stand up to the UFC and say: "i won't go to that meeting or i won't do that show, because i'd rather train or meditate about the fight..."
> It's not normal for a fighter to be so exposed to "the media army", but there is not much he can't do about it, once he's started.
> This is what i'm talking about (before the press conference today):
> 
> 
> Whole story/article
> 
> So far Jones has shown he can handle it. I believe he can do it from here on now also. Feet on the ground is the way to go...


I know you like Jones alot but come on Limba he isnt Hating he is saying alot of the truth about Jones being smug , also Jones is ONE dimensional and yes you're right so are 80% of MMA but i do however think that Jones being one dimensional isnt a bad thing , because he will stick to his strength which is Wrestling and win the fight from there.


----------



## strikersrevenge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbDy34DuypA


----------



## limba

***** de Amigo said:


> I know you like Jones alot but come on Limba he isnt Hating he is saying alot of the truth about Jones being smug , also Jones is ONE dimensional and yes you're right so are 80% of MMA but i do however think that Jones being one dimensional isnt a bad thing , because he will stick to his strength which is Wrestling and win the fight from there.


I meant: don't "hate" so much!
And for the record i consider Jones *TWO 1/2-dimensional*

But i missed the part where being ONE-dimensional is such a bad thing!
Like i've said: if you look at the big picture, about *80%* of the fighters are ONE-dimensional. No matter how you take it!
My point in my previous post was: when you are 23 yrs old and you've been training MMA for just over 3 years, being "ONE-dimensional" seems like normal.
And when you excel at being "ONE-dimensional", meaning, that ONE skill can win you fights in impressive fashion, i don't see it as a bad thing.

And i am the opinion, that wrestling is the best foundation for starting an MMA career.
And usually, wrestlers tend to use their skills to dominate their opponents because it's a very efficient way of fighting/winning, if you're really good at it.

Being so young he has a lot of time to improve his skills in other disciplines and becoming better and better overall.
Especially when he said he is constantly trying to improve and get better in every aspect of the game. 

Conclusion: I fail to see why any fighter would get *flamed*
for being ONE-dimensional. 

Fact: Jones will never be on Shogun's level in terms of striking. No matter how much he trains. In terms of grappling, we could have this conversation in 6-7 years and see then.
And this goes for Shogun's wrestling also. He could train untill he is 40 and he won't reach Jones' level.

_But that's just me......."a nuthugger, super biased fan, a worshipper" :sarcastic12:
Hope you didn't miss the "..."_


----------



## Atilak

After Countdown and Pressconference Im more confident in Shogun.

Jones talks that he feels that he will win the fight and already talks about it like it happened.
Rua does not this. He just have it in his eyes. He seems to me 1000% confident that he will just smash Jones.


My key points from Countdown:

- Rua telling his manager that he will kick Jones ass when watching Bader fight
- Rua camp very well aware that Rua will end on his back. So training lot of BJJ
- Rua camp also invite Jones to wrestling and rather not strike
- Jones feels like he could strike with Rua (big time fail)
- Jones always talking how much energy he is spending on focusing on the fight, chanelling pressure, meditating. For Rua? Just "bussiness as usual"(so famous line nowdays)

Press conference:
- Jones was just all fun and games(seems to me that he just want to mask what is really inside)
- Rua focused like he always is

How Im pumped for this fight is beyond imagination  I think it could happen either way and it could very well show the future in LHW. Similar to Cain/Brock fight.

Winner of this fight will be champ for some time. Im convinced about that.


----------



## Sambo de Amigo

limba said:


> I meant: don't "hate" so much!
> And for the record i consider Jones *TWO 1/2-dimensional*
> 
> But i missed the part where being ONE-dimensional is such a bad thing!
> Like i've said: if you look at the big picture, about *80%* of the fighters are ONE-dimensional. No matter how you take it!
> My point in my previous post was: when you are 23 yrs old and you've been training MMA for just over 3 years, being "ONE-dimensional" seems like normal.
> And when you excel at being "ONE-dimensional", meaning, that ONE skill can win you fights in impressive fashion, i don't see it as a bad thing.
> 
> And i am the opinion, that wrestling is the best foundation for starting an MMA career.
> And usually, wrestlers tend to use their skills to dominate their opponents because it's a very efficient way of fighting/winning, if you're really good at it.
> 
> Being so young he has a lot of time to improve his skills in other disciplines and becoming better and better overall.
> Especially when he said he is constantly trying to improve and get better in every aspect of the game.
> 
> Conclusion: I fail to see why any fighter would get *flamed*
> for being ONE-dimensional.
> 
> Fact: Jones will never be on Shogun's level in terms of striking. No matter how much he trains. In terms of grappling, we could have this conversation in 6-7 years and see then.
> And this goes for Shogun's wrestling also. He could train untill he is 40 and he won't reach Jones' level.
> 
> _But that's just me......."a nuthugger, super biased fan, a worshipper" :sarcastic12:
> Hope you didn't miss the "..."_



You do this alot , go round in a giant circle to get to your point , i dont want to get into a heated debate with you because i dont care enough and i think you're an intelligent poster but i wasnt flaming him i was actually saying his one dimensional approach is the best thing.


----------



## limba

***** de Amigo said:


> You do this alot , go round in a giant circle to get to your point , i dont want to get into a heated debate with you because i dont care enough and i think you're an intelligent poster but i wasnt flaming him i was actually saying his one dimensional approach is the best thing.


LOL

I think you misunderstood. I know you weren't flaming Jones. Not that it would matter. It's your opinion afterall. I'll respect it.
I actually pretty much agreed with you, that being an excellent ONE dimensional fighter is not a bad thing.

But i'm a "talker" a "writer"...i tend to elaborate my posts, because that's how i am. 
Perhaps you got the idea that i had something against your opinion regarding this subject.

Not the case...
Enjoy.


----------



## UFC_OWNS

im sorry limba but my favorite fighter is KOing your favorite fighter, its not jones time and shogun doesnt need any motivation(especially what jones have given him) to destroy someone


----------



## limba

UFC_OWNS said:


> im sorry limba but my favorite fighter is KOing your favorite fighter, its not jones time and shogun doesnt need any motivation(especially what jones have given him) to destroy someone


It could happen. Anything can happen in a fight....

But you're saying this like it's the end of the world or something...
For some people it will feel like that, no matter who wins on saturday night.
And others will proudly claim their fav fighter's win like it's theirs; like they were the one fighting...

I'm convinced stuff like "told you so", "i knew it", "i saw that coming" and others similar expressions are gonna flood the forum after the fight.

Reminds me of when i was a small kid and i was arguing with my friends: who would win - Van Damme or Jackie Chan, Stallone or Arnold...


----------



## Atilak

limba said:


> It could happen. Anything can happen in a fight....
> 
> But you're saying this like it's the end of the world or something...
> For some people it will feel like that, no matter who wins on saturday night.
> And others will proudly claim their fav fighter's win like it's theirs; like they were the one fighting...
> 
> I'm convinced stuff like "told you so", "i knew it", "i saw that coming" and others similar expressions are gonna flood the forum after the fight.
> *
> Reminds me of when i was a small kid and i was arguing with my friends: who would win - Van Damme or Jackie Chan, Stallone or Arnold...*


I would take JCVD! He is only one who competes at tournaments and winning them. 

Make it happen!!!

I agree with you. People are crazy. Some will held the belt after 128!! You read it here first!! :sarcastic12:


----------



## UFC_OWNS

limba said:


> It could happen. Anything can happen in a fight....
> 
> But you're saying this like it's the end of the world or something...
> For some people it will feel like that, no matter who wins on saturday night.
> And others will proudly claim their fav fighter's win like it's theirs; like they were the one fighting...
> 
> I'm convinced stuff like "told you so", "i knew it", "i saw that coming" and others similar expressions are gonna flood the forum after the fight.
> 
> Reminds me of when i was a small kid and i was arguing with my friends: who would win - Van Damme or Jackie Chan, Stallone or Arnold...


nothing personal limba but i love blood from shoguns victims, it makes my day ufc 113 made my whole damn year


----------



## Atilak

UFC_OWNS:

First UFC 113 was scheduled on my B-day 1th May. Event was week after, but was great B-day present

UFC 128 is on my Name day raise01:

I hope that Shogun has another present for me :thumb02:


----------



## smokelaw1

Atilak said:


> Winner of this fight will be champ for some time. Im convinced about that.


That's a really dangerous assumption to make in this division. Either guy has terrible matchups in teh top 5/10 contenders. 

I am so pumped for this fight.


----------



## SigFig

Shogun has the clear advantage in the aspect of this fight that people are overlooking...

The walkout shirt...


----------



## limba

UFC_OWNS said:


> nothing personal limba ...


I know.
I was saying ... generally stuff like this happens.


----------



## GetHitorHit

Atilak said:


> UFC_OWNS:
> 
> First UFC 113 was scheduled on my B-day 1th May. Event was week after, but was great B-day present
> 
> UFC 128 is on my Name day raise01:
> 
> I hope that Shogun has another present for me :thumb02:


+1. hoping that shogun wins


----------



## Samin00

*Shogun vs Bones Finish*

Share your thaughts on how you think the match will finish.

If shogun would win I think he would weaken him with (legg) kicks and finish him with his muay thai, and i think his bjj is underrated, If you take a look again at the griffin/shogun fight you'll see that the first round shogun had an excellent guard, and each time forrest got his back he rolled into his guard.

I dont know why but it think if Bones would win, this is how it would go: their exchanging fists and kicks and at some moment in the second or third round Bones fakes a backkick and puts shogun to sleep off guard.

But i hope Shogun crushes him :thumb02:


----------



## Inferno

Shogun will finish via ankle, knee sub. I am guessing this fight looks exactly like Rua Vs Randleman, with Shogun rushing Jones and attacking a leg right off the hop.


----------



## Mike28

I think this fight ends via viscous elbows to the face of Rua...


----------



## K R Y

Threads Merged.


----------



## vilify

Mike28 said:


> I think this fight ends via viscous elbows to the face of Rua...


I'm leaning towards this as well, although I could see Shogun overwhelming Jones on the feet and getting him in trouble early. 

The fight will hit the ground eventually and Jones will GNP him badly.


----------



## Roflcopter

*Shogun vs Jon Jones is NOT a Pick'Em fight.*

I'm calling this right now, even I had to admit that I was blinded by the hype somewhat. Even though I bet on Shogun, I didn't bet a tremendous amount and now I wished I had.

The ONLY, and I men ONLY chance Jones has is if Shogun is completely shot because of the knee injuries and/or has terrible cardio from being undertrained.

Shogun is going to stop him early likely, he's the most devastating striker in the LHW division and hits like a MACK truck. Jones has HORRIBLE, and I mean HORRIBLE strike defense. For a guy who has never had his chin checked really, he gets hit A LOT. He was outboxed by Jake O'Brien, took a ton of shots from Bonnar in the 3rd round and looked uncomfortable and was definitely getting the worse of the standup against Bader. None of these guys are even in the same gulf as Shogun. If Shogun lands, which he will, Jones will be taking a nap. Jones has no boxing skills at all, only a few flashy kicks and elbows, doesn't check leg kicks, doesn't move his head, and often is caught with his chin STRAIGHT in the air. A Shogun bullrush will send him completely out of consciousness.

Jones' only chance is to outwrestle Shogun for 5 whole rounds. Good luck with that. 25 minutes to avoid a KO or submission is a long, long time. He's in danger everywhere in the fight. If he gets the fight to the ground, his white belt mistakes that he makes EVERY fight will cost him dearly, as Shogun has probably the BEST guard in MMA bar none. The man has a history of doing crazy things on the mat, of course the leglock on Randleman, but beyond that an omaplata sweep on one of the best positional grapplers to ever compete, Ricardo Arona, multiple sweeps of Mark Coleman, BJJ black belt Lyoto Machida, etc, he is a true 2nd Degree black belt. Jon Jones has an utter inability to control anyone on the mat, probably due to his weird, spindly figure. Gusmao and Bonnar got right back up whenever he took them down. Brandon Vera got back up the first time before eating the big elbow, as did Ryan Bader before being subbed. The only person he's been able to definitely control was Matyushenko, who is old and has zero flexibility to be competent within the guard.

If I had to wager, I'd bet that Jackson draws up a plan for Bones to stall against he fence as long as possible, because really it is is his only way he has a shot of winning.


----------



## St.Paul Guy

I could not agree with you more. I bet $100 on Shogun (which is the most I'm currently willing to lose on any single bet). Shogun seems genuinly irritated by Jones' arrogance. Hopefully JBJ gets humbled in this fight so I can go back to liking him.


----------



## SigFig

Samin00 said:


> Share your thaughts on how you think the match will finish...


I'll be tailoring my betting strategy based on this...

*Shogun*

If Shogun is gonna win, I feel it'll be in round 1 or 2 via striking dominance / overwhelming Jones. I'm not counting on Shogun taking the fight in later rounds for various reasons -- gas tank coming off injury, his opponent being a highly skilled wrestler who may dominate a top control strategy in the latter rounds, etc. I also feel Shogun could sub Jones from his back, but am not counting on that; however, have already placed a wager given I like the value in the odds for that prop bet (13:1).

*Bones*

I could see Jones winning via takedown and GnP. I am not in the camp who believe he'll sub Shogun, and have zero confidence that Jones would KO Shogun standing. And again, I see a finish in the earlier rounds, as these two guys are just pretty brutal by nature... Unless Greg Jackson forces an uber conservative gameplan on Jones of just laying in Shogun's guard, I cannot see this one going to the judges either, and the odds are indicative of that with "Fight does not go to decision" at -380.


I'll probably play a combination of these wagers:
-Jones to win 
-Shogun in Rd1
-Shogun in Rd2
-Shogun by sub (already booked that bet)

And I plan to parlay the "Fight does not go to decision" prop.

I'll lose my azz in a bad way if Shogun wins by decision.


----------



## vilify

Interesting....

I agree with Shogun outclassing Bones on the feet but I think that's where it ends. As we all know Jones stand up is not the best but he can definitely hold his own long enough to get close to shogun and take him down. Once it hits the ground(and it will) and Shogun feels those nasty elbows from Jones he'll hold on for dear life. He wont feel comfortable going for any subs or sweeps. He'll end up taking some serious shots and that will be the beginning of the end. just my opinion of course :thumbsup:


----------



## Roflcopter

You do realize that Jon Jones can't control people to land elbows in the first place?

I think he landed a total of one or two glancing shots to Bader the whole time he had him on him on the mat. He's done damage ONCE his career in guard, to Vera who has a very mediocre guard, and actually swept to standing in the first place. And he's not passing Shogun's guard.


----------



## vilify

He controlled Bader big time and I say Bader is stronger than Shogun. He also controlled Hamill. Dont be surprised when Jones scores some huge takedowns that land him in side control or immediate mount.


----------



## prolyfic

Roflcopter said:


> *For a guy who has never had his chin checked really, he gets hit A LOT.*


Kind of confused by this statement. How can a person not having his chin tested get hit a lot. Now I haven't rewatched the Bader fight but the most significant shot was the Jones head kick. Bader may have landed a few glancing blows but nothing solid. Although if you feel he gets hit ALOT then his chin isnt that untested.

I see your point about the openings that Jones leaves but those aren't against KO fighters. Jake hadn't had a Ko victory in 3 years when he faced Jones and after the fight Jones said he could feel Jake getting tired and he did kind of gas out in the second when Jon caught him in the choke. 

The problem everytime Shogun fights everyone remembers what he used to do. In recent years Shogun KO'd 2 people. He tagged an (at that point glass chin) of Chuck and caught Lyoto (who's chin hadn't been tested). So this he hits like a MACK truck statement seems to be premature. I am not saying that Jon is going to beat Shogun. But if you look at Shogun's biggest weakness TDD, whats Jon's bread and butter.


----------



## Roflcopter

Being hit isn't the same as being hit solidly on the button.

His head movement stinks and people land on him, and land on him consistently, fortunately Jake O'Brien and Stefan Bonnar really aren't that dangerous.


----------



## prolyfic

Roflcopter said:


> Being hit isn't the same as being hit solidly on the button.
> 
> His head movement stinks and people land on him, and land on him consistently, fortunately Jake O'Brien and Stefan Bonnar really aren't that dangerous.


So he hasn't used head movement against people that aren't dangerous strikers. Those that are he has taken down (Vera, Vladimir). Again I am not saying he is this elusive fighter but he manages to not play to peoples strengths rather hisown. Bonnar not a KO artist, so he stands and works him over in a variety of ways. When he fights dangerous strikers he takes them down. This seems to be a great strategy. I thnk he can and will take down Shogun. He may chose to stand but I don't think enough evidence is there to conclude its a quick KO if he does.


----------



## No_Mercy

I think Shogun is going to set up his leg kicks with punches. That will wear down Jones in the latter rounds. 

If JBJ lands that first takedown and gets in some good GNP it could be troublesome for Shogun. Winning the fight in the first round won't do anybody justice unless it's Shogun with a KO. Even still I want to see at least four rounds. 

How crazy would it be if we saw Shogun charge...


----------



## SigFig

No_Mercy said:


> ...
> 
> How crazy would it be if we saw Shogun charge...


I don't think it'll be that crazy at all really.

edit:
staredown pic here... {I can't seem to embed}
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php...ab70b7b780d9be69820ddd8d093945156ed3f194g.jpg


----------



## tap nap or snap

i think the fight might look similar to shogun overeem 1... i don't know about how it will end, but overeem's clench throws remind me of bones


----------



## Spec0688

I don't think thats the same Shogun, hes definitely not as agile as he was back in 2005.


----------



## vilify

Shogun didnt really look good in that fight and I think he'll look worse against Jones.


----------



## Liddell67

*The talk is over-Now Shogun can hit him!*

Now I don't know who will win(it's MMA)
But JJ has talked the talk after beating Ryan Bader.
Ryan 'Darth'(ffs is he 12) Vader.

So now he fights a died in the wool hard b~~tard. 
A champion.

To me Rua is coming off an injury so (and this is the only reason I would doubt him)Jones has a chance.
BUT Jones has not beaten anyone of note.

Rua will win and unfortuneatly will hurt him.
JJ welcome to highlevel MMA-it's brutal...


----------



## LL

Sorry but, Bader is a legit top ten fighter. Jones smashed him and everyone else he's fought.

Jones using the clinch push his reach, pushing the fight into the later rounds with Shogun's cardio running out equals Jones getting some sort of submission in and forcing Shogun to tap.


----------



## Liddell67

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Sorry but, Bader is a legit top ten fighter. Jones smashed him and everyone else he's fought.
> 
> Jones using the clinch push his reach, pushing the fight into the later rounds with Shogun's cardio running out equals Jones getting some sort of submission in and forcing Shogun to tap.


Sorry (back at you) but who has Vader (sorry Bader) beaten of note? Legit or not- who?


----------



## Spec0688

why did you have to create a whole new topic when this is practically discussed in any other one that is created?


----------



## Liddell67

Spec0688 said:


> why did you have to create a whole new topic when this is practically discussed in any other one that is created?


Sorry mate, just getting excited about the fight.
One more day to go so surely I am allowed to discuss it on an MMA forum. What else will we discuss-Dana's choice of socks for the event. 

Sorry I know I sound sarcastic( I am Scottish-it's in our blood) but if you don't want to contribute then please don't....


----------



## MikeHawk

TheLyotoLegion said:


> Sorry but, Bader is a legit top ten fighter. Jones smashed him and everyone else he's fought.
> 
> Jones using the clinch push his reach, pushing the fight into the later rounds with Shogun's cardio running out equals Jones getting some sort of submission in and forcing Shogun to tap.


I wouldn't say top 10. Top 20 for sure but top 10 would be if he beat Jones.

He didn't look impressive vs. Nog or Jardine either. He looked gassed in both fights and let his athleticism guide him to the win.


----------



## Rusty

Bader is top ten in everyones rankings. He'd be top 5 had he beat Jones. At the very worst Ryan might be top 12-13 on a ********** ranking list.


----------



## John8204

Spec0688 said:


> why did you have to create a whole new topic when this is practically discussed in any other one that is created?


The man has a dream, an entire page of Jon Jones hullabaloo.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

I yearn for such a time as people use the stickied thread (designed for this kind of statements and opinions) for such things...

It's there for a reason my friend.


----------



## Guy Incognito

Spec0688 said:


> I don't think thats the same Shogun, hes definitely not as agile as he was back in 2005.


Shogun is more agile now just look at the second machida fight.


----------



## MMA-Matt

still too hard for me to call so im just gonna sit back, relax and watch the fight hoping for it to go to the 4th at least!


----------



## HD209458B

Liddell67 said:


> Now I happen to think us MMA fans are against popular belief a rather intelligent sort.
> 
> I know we get a bit blind to our favourite fighters and always back them.
> But (and before I go on I am a neutral on this fight)I just can't see where all this Jon Jones will win mania has come from.
> It is MMA so of course he has a chance. Yes he looks a great fighter and I am sure he has a great future in the sport. But here is my problem.
> 
> Shogun Rua has fought some of the hardest men ever to walk into an MMA ring.
> Rampage
> Big Nog
> Overeem(twice)
> Coleman(twice)
> Liddell
> Machida(twice)-and lets remember before they fought this Forum was full of Machida will retire undefeated- he is unbeatable- no one will ever beat him......Shogun walked through him TWICE!
> 
> He beat them ALL.
> 
> 
> Jones best victory
> Ryan Bader!!!!!!!! Who....
> 
> Rua is champion.Hard earned even with his numerous injuries.
> 
> I'm not saying Jones won't win(though I don't think he will)
> 
> But HOW CAN HE BE FAVOURITE
> 
> Does not make sense to little old me....


agree with ya 100%, unfortunately most mma fans arent that smart.


----------



## Guy Incognito

Roflcopter said:


> I'm calling this right now, even I had to admit that I was blinded by the hype somewhat. Even though I bet on Shogun, I didn't bet a tremendous amount and now I wished I had.
> 
> The ONLY, and I men ONLY chance Jones has is if Shogun is completely shot because of the knee injuries and/or has terrible cardio from being undertrained.
> 
> Shogun is going to stop him early likely, he's the most devastating striker in the LHW division and hits like a MACK truck. Jones has HORRIBLE, and I mean HORRIBLE strike defense. For a guy who has never had his chin checked really, he gets hit A LOT. He was outboxed by Jake O'Brien, took a ton of shots from Bonnar in the 3rd round and looked uncomfortable and was definitely getting the worse of the standup against Bader. None of these guys are even in the same gulf as Shogun. If Shogun lands, which he will, Jones will be taking a nap. Jones has no boxing skills at all, only a few flashy kicks and elbows, doesn't check leg kicks, doesn't move his head, and often is caught with his chin STRAIGHT in the air. A Shogun bullrush will send him completely out of consciousness.
> 
> Jones' only chance is to outwrestle Shogun for 5 whole rounds. Good luck with that. 25 minutes to avoid a KO or submission is a long, long time. He's in danger everywhere in the fight. If he gets the fight to the ground, his white belt mistakes that he makes EVERY fight will cost him dearly, as Shogun has probably the BEST guard in MMA bar none. The man has a history of doing crazy things on the mat, of course the leglock on Randleman, but beyond that an omaplata sweep on one of the best positional grapplers to ever compete, Ricardo Arona, multiple sweeps of Mark Coleman, BJJ black belt Lyoto Machida, etc, he is a true 2nd Degree black belt. Jon Jones has an utter inability to control anyone on the mat, probably due to his weird, spindly figure. Gusmao and Bonnar got right back up whenever he took them down. Brandon Vera got back up the first time before eating the big elbow, as did Ryan Bader before being subbed. The only person he's been able to definitely control was Matyushenko, who is old and has zero flexibility to be competent within the guard.
> 
> If I had to wager, I'd bet that Jackson draws up a plan for Bones to stall against he fence as long as possible, because really it is is his only way he has a shot of winning.


Shogun is getting taken down at will and mauled.


----------



## Trix

I think ppl are overlooking something. 

Prior to the Bader fight, Jones said he was tired of fighting wrestlers. 

Jones wanted a stand up fighter(remember he said: not ANOTHER wrestler) so he could have a straight stand up war(as opposed to playing it conservative worrying about takedowns).

There's a decent chance, Jones won't look for the takedown against Shogun or try to take it to the ground.

Shogun is the first stand up fighter Jones has fought in a very long time, and Jones may just choose to stand and brawl with him.


----------



## Guy Incognito

Trix said:


> I think ppl are overlooking something.
> 
> Prior to the Bader fight, Jones said he was tired of fighting wrestlers.
> 
> Jones wanted a stand up fighter(remember he said: not ANOTHER wrestler) so he could have a straight stand up war(as opposed to playing it conservative worrying about takedowns).
> 
> There's a decent chance, Jones won't look for the takedown against Shogun or try to take it to the ground.
> 
> Shogun is the first stand up fighter Jones has fought in a very long time, and Jones may just choose to stand and brawl with him.


Theres definitely a chance of that happening as actually he said he is going to trade with Shogun but he could just be talking shit to get inside Shoguns head but then again Jones does seem delusional enough to do it.


----------



## limba

guy incognito said:


> Theres definitely a chance of that happening as actually *he said he is going to trade with Shogun* but he could just be talking shit to get inside Shoguns head but then again Jones does seem delusional enough to do it.


I hope not.
It's not like Shogun is gonna wrestle with him.
With the title so close..i don't think he will risk it.
+ Greg Jackson made his game plan - i don't think he has this in mind.


----------



## Mckeever

Shogun has been saying for ages he wants to stand with a striker. He got his opportunity in the Brandon Vera fight and took him down ASAP.

This is all mind games on Jons behalf, he's looking to take the fight to the ground as quickly and efficiently as possible.

The question is, can he keep him there?


----------



## Syxx Paq

Trix said:


> I think ppl are overlooking something.
> 
> Prior to the Bader fight, Jones said he was tired of fighting wrestlers.
> 
> Jones wanted a stand up fighter(remember he said: not ANOTHER wrestler) so he could have a straight stand up war(as opposed to playing it conservative worrying about takedowns).
> 
> There's a decent chance, Jones won't look for the takedown against Shogun or try to take it to the ground.
> 
> Shogun is the first stand up fighter Jones has fought in a very long time, and Jones may just choose to stand and brawl with him.


If he does this, he's going to sleep in the first round...


----------



## METALLICA_RULES

I won't be watching the fight, but i'm pretty sure it will be a close fight.


----------



## limba

Mckeever said:


> *Jones* has been saying for ages he wants to stand with a striker. He got his opportunity in the Brandon Vera fight and took him down ASAP.
> 
> This is all mind games on Jons behalf, he's looking to take the fight to the ground as quickly and efficiently as possible.
> 
> The question is, can he keep him there?


_Fixed it for ya McK..._

Agreed.
With Jackson as his strategist...i don't think he's gonna stand. Like i've said: i hope not! Shogun's striking is much better than Jones'.
Fighting into your opponents' stregth is not a smart thing to do.
Usually, Jackson Camp fighters are coming in with solid game plans, trying to exploit their opponents' weaknesses as much as possible.

I hope Jones does the same thing.


----------



## Drogo

I thought this would be a super close fight but I'm coming around more to the idea of Jones winning. He is bigger, stronger and has that absurd reach. Shogun has an advantage striking but Jones reach helps counter that somewhat.

Considering the poll I think a lot of people are going to be dissapointed tonight. (Me being one, I want Shogun to win but I'm just not seeing it). 

I'm still surprised at the odds though. I am picking Jones but if I bet it will be on Shogun with the odds what they are.


----------



## shenmue

They Key to this fight will be Shogun keeping the fight on the feet, i believe if he can he will win by stoppage because Jones hasn't fought against any good stand up fighters.

My fear is that Jones will get him down and elbow is way to a stoppage win.

My final prediction is Shogun by stoppage but this is one tough fight to call, but thats what makes it exciting.


----------



## LL

MikeHawk said:


> I wouldn't say top 10. Top 20 for sure but top 10 would be if he beat Jones.
> 
> He didn't look impressive vs. Nog or Jardine either. He looked gassed in both fights and let his athleticism guide him to the win.


Exactly what ten Light Heavyweights would you put ahead of Bader prior to UFC 126?

Shogun, Rashad, Rampage, Bones, and maybe Lyoto?

He may not have looked impressive, he may have gassed but at the end of the day he got a W. He's still hanging in there in the bottom of the top ten.

Something else to think about, even if it is irrelevant now, how would you have ranked Jones ahead of Bader when he was beating Vladimir and Vera when Bader was beating Lil' Nog and Jardine who beat Matyushenko and Vera?

That just makes Bones look even more impressive, he destroyed Bader with ease, I expect the Shogun fight to be tough but if he can survive the rough patches, clinch with Shogun and force Shogun to work against the cage with the larger man on him that's gonna be how Jones wins. Because on the feet, he's outmatched, on the ground he's outmatched. The clinch is the key.


----------



## SM33

*Jones Accuses Rua of Using 'Reverse Psychology'...*

...To try to make Jon believe his own hype. Not sure if this deserves a new thread or not, do what you will with it.

ufc.com Open workouts video. This kid is really annoying, Rua does no such thing and has not done it to Jones, I'd like Jones to further explain this comment as I'm not sure how he's come to this conclusion.

IMO it's a sour attempt to derail his new-found anti-hype, the public realisation of his own personal hype about his recently deceased public hype. This hype stuff really does no one any good. It's Ok though Jon, you don't need Shogun to help you believe in your own hype...


----------



## boxingmmagoon

This should be a awesome championship fight. I could see it going either way. If Shogun comes in 100% I think he will win but I don't think he will be coming in 100% after knee surgery. Jones is also the far better wrestler and is vicious while on top. Striking I think Shogun has a big advantage. Jones is flashy and might get a few shots in but, Shogun has the ability to hurt or take out almost anyone on the feet. My pick for this fight is Jones based on the fact that I don't think were going to see Shogun at his best and I think will see the best "Bones" Jones ever. I wouldn't be surprised at all though if Shogun wins. If Jones wins I think it'll likely either be a ground and pound TKO/KO or a decision. If Shogun wins I'm thinking either he wears Jones legs out with kicks and finishes him on the feet, or a decision.


----------



## Samin00

shogun's face when he hears all of jones bullshit:


----------



## BobbyCooper

The thing I believe wich will happen here is that Jones will break mentally during the fight and Shogun will get the TKO. 

Shogun will be relentless in there if he is really healthy. This is too much for a guy like Jones who has never been tested.


----------



## jonnyg4508

BobbyCooper said:


> The thing I believe wich will happen here is that Jones will break mentally during the fight and Shogun will get the TKO.
> 
> Shogun will be relentless in there if he is really healthy. This is too much for a guy like Jones who has never been tested.


Pretty much what I think happens if Shogun were to win. Not sure what will happen but I'm hoping Shogun is 100% an furious.


----------



## Calminian

*10 reasons why I'm picking Shogun*

1) He's still young and evolving. If Shogun were 34 or older, I'd probably pick Jones. Since he's still young I think he's still on an upswing and hasn't yet peaked. I think we'll see the best version of him yet tonight.

2) He has the best kicks in mma (at least in the top 5). If he can catch Machida repeatedly, he can catch Jones. Jones has never seen kicks of this magnitude.

3) Leg kicks are going to be a particular problem for Jones style. Shots are going to get harder and harder as the fight goes on.

4) Jones has never been in trouble, or rocked. The first time that happens to a fighter is usually the worst. 

5) Shogun is great off his back, and won't be phased if taken down.

6) Shogun is reportedly very healthy.

7) Jones has looked spectacular in his fights, but really hasn't beat anyone that good. Bader is likely his toughest challenge. Compare that Shogun's dominations of Rampage, Overeem and Machida.

8) Jones doesn't have top notch KO power or skills. His only real shot is a submission, or GnP. Shogun is too crafty for that. 

9) Jones is overconfident. Big mistake with a guy like Rua. He's looking at Shoguns fights with Griffen and Coleman. I was skeptical about Rua then also, but it's become very obvious this is a rusty injured version of Rua. It's not the same guy that KO'd Machida. 

10) There are no real weakness weaknesses in Shogun's game to exploit. 

Shogun by late round stoppage.


----------



## limba

SM33 said:


> ...To try to make Jon believe his own hype. Not sure if this deserves a new thread or not, do what you will with it.
> 
> ufc.com Open workouts video. This kid is really annoying, Rua does no such thing and has not done it to Jones, I'd like Jones to further explain this comment as I'm not sure how he's come to this conclusion.
> 
> IMO it's a sour attempt to derail his new-found anti-hype, the public realisation of his own personal hype about his recently deceased public hype. This hype stuff really does no one any good. It's Ok though Jon, you don't need Shogun to help you believe in your own hype...


Darnit...
I wanted to use reverse psichology in this thread..
Maybe i did...

_PS: maybe that's why i like Jones...because i like how he thinks a lot of times ........ not all the times. Please note that. _


----------



## John8204

BobbyCooper said:


> The thing I believe wich will happen here is that Jones will break mentally during the fight and Shogun will get the TKO.
> 
> Shogun will be relentless in there if he is really healthy. This is too much for a guy like Jones who has never been tested.


I think Jones is mentally broken right now and having both Rua, the media and Evans trying to get in his head has worked.

The problem is Jones has that Brock Lesnar power and strength and if he gets top control over of Ruas at any point in the fight he'll finish him.

The likely result is Jones winning in the first round.

Ruas has three good shots at beating him, in order

- testing his chin with a flash KO
- pulling him into guard and going for a sub
- trying his gas tank running for two rounds and out pointing him in the 3rd-5th to get the decision


----------



## vilify

Shogun has never had a good gas tank going against Jones will only make it worse.


----------



## rabakill

limba said:


> Darnit...
> I wanted to use reverse psichology in this thread..
> Maybe i did...
> 
> _PS: maybe that's why i like Jones...because i like how he thinks a lot of times ........ not all the times. Please note that. _


your love for jones has become comical at this point. Rarely do I see someone so rampantly defending a fighter in every post.


----------



## John8204

vilify said:


> Shogun has never had a good gas tank going against Jones will only make it worse.


While Jones has much better cardio (no doubt about that), I remember GSP/Hughes where Hughes took a 10-8 loss in the first round only to slip an arm bar in during the closing seconds and steal the fight.


----------



## limba

rabakill said:


> your love for jones has become comical at this point. Rarely do I see someone so rampantly defending a fighter in every post.


If you missed the sarcasm in this post?!...sorry man...

And it's not love man...it's "love". Plus...i love women.

I just think he gets too much undeserved "hate", for something that people imagined.
Go through my 100+ posts and you will know what i mean. (i'll recommend the latest posts).

I'm gonna sound more biased, but i think some people feel a certain envy towards him.

And i'm not alone in this - defending your favorite fighter.
You should watch the activity on this place once the GSP-Shields fights draws near.
Also: other suggestions: Machida vs Randy, BJ vs Fitch 2 and of course...Brock vs JDS.
I'm gonna enjoy some time off after this... 

Best regards man....


----------



## John8204

I agree with Limba this Jones hate movement is well out of proportion for the root of the reasons.

It feels like the motivating factors are very different, like two classes of "fans" the anti-hype fans who want to stand out and the people who love to root against black athletes.

Some of these posts have actually made me feel quite uncomfortable about some members here.


----------



## limba

John8204 said:


> While Jones has much better cardio (no doubt about that), I remember GSP/Hughes where Hughes took a 10-8 loss in the first round only to slip an arm bar in during the closing seconds and steal the fight.


I wanted to bring GSP in this discussion, for an interesting story (comparison).
Because, one way or the other, Jones is gonna "follow" one road after this fight (at least statistically):

FUN FACTS​
GSP - Jones - Shogun
*All* guys were *23 years old* when they got their first *title shot*.
And all guys got their *title shot* around *3 years* after making their *MMA debut*.

GSP lost against Hughes - but after that became champion and later admitted that loss + Serra of course - made him the fighter he is today.
Shogun beat Arona and went on a *tear* after that, his only loss being the broken arm incident against Coleman. Up until Forrest of course.

And Jones?!...We will see.
I think he's taking Shogun's path, but either way, he is on the right road.


----------



## rabakill

The reason people despise jones so much is because of the hype and disrespect to Shogun. Jones is the overwhelming favorite in the vegas odds, as if shogun has no chance. Not often you get the world champ being so completely disregarded before a fight even happens. It's not Jones so much that but the ridiculous followers he has claiming he's the next messiah. When he beats a top 5 lhw fighter then we'll have something to talk about.


----------



## Calminian

rabakill said:


> The reason people despise jones so much is because of the hype and disrespect to Shogun. Jones is the overwhelming favorite in the vegas odds, as if shogun has no chance. Not often you get the world champ being so completely disregarded before a fight even happens. It's not Jones so much that but the ridiculous followers he has claiming he's the next messiah. When he beats a top 5 lhw fighter then we'll have something to talk about.


Jones is one of those athletes that thinks his success is due to his intelligence. Truth is, he's very athletic and gifted with height and reach. Yet he's always referring to his great mental prowess. Truthfully he's not that bright. I'm hoping his ego gets a much needed adjustment.


----------



## limba

rabakill said:


> The reason people despise jones so much is *because of the hype and disrespect to Shogun*. Jones is the *overwhelming favorite in the vegas odds*, as if shogun has no chance. Not often you get *the world champ being so completely disregarded before a fight even happens*.


People will aim their snipers at me, but i can take it...

So...
You are somewhat right, but let me ask you this:
Is it Jones' fault Shogun get the respect he should have?!
Is it Jones' fault the MMA media didn't assign Shogun more time: more interviews, more radio/TV shows, more press articles...more evertyhing?!
Is it Jones' fault the bookmares made him favorite for the fight?! I'm sure he would have loved to be the big underdog...
Is it Jones' fault the Wall Street journal wrote an article about him?! Or that the UFC made a short movie featuring him - "In the Moment"?!

The media reached a point where they were almost *harassing* him. And he is in a position where he can't turn down all this assault that comes his way. The UFC is a billion dollar business and their goal is to become even bigger. The UFC feels like they can incorporate Jones in their future plans, trying to make him one of their number one stars. 
Let's see a fighter turn down the UFC like that. Especially a young fighter that tries to make a name for himself.

I agree about Shogun not getting the respect he deserves, but seeing how he is the UFC's Champion, they should have given him more attention.

Because...please don't think for a second, the UFC wasn't involved in all these articles about Jones popping-up on all MMA related sites the way they did: 10/day.




rabakill said:


> It's not Jones so much that but the ridiculous followers he has claiming he's the next messiah. When he beats a top 5 lhw fighter then we'll have something to talk about.


There are some crazy people out there, but this image of *ridiculous followers* is a bit exaggerated. 
Every fighter has some crazy fans.

Please don't think about me as being a member of that group, because it's not the case.
I'm just a big fan, who enjoys watching this kid fight and tryinf to use some logic, in some debates that have become pretty ridiculous for some imaginary reasons.
_
Hope i didn't bore you to death..._


----------



## khoveraki

How can anyone claim that Jones has better cardio? Shogun went five rounds with the most elusive fighter in MMA and never slowed down once. Jones was visibly tired in the third round against Bonnar, and he's never been in the championship rounds.


----------



## M.C

This is going to be a great fight for sure.

Can't wait to see how it goes down.


----------



## John8204

khoveraki said:


> How can anyone claim that Jones has better cardio? Shogun went five rounds with the most elusive fighter in MMA and never slowed down once. Jones was visibly tired in the third round against Bonnar, and he's never been in the championship rounds.


Did you watch that fight? He threw everything at Bonnar for two rounds, he over did it over the course of two rounds. Now the difference is Bonnar is huge tough guy that can't be finished. I do think Rua can test his cardio and it might pay off for him, but realistically it's a huge gamble and you might not make it to the 3rd round to find out.


----------



## khoveraki

John8204 said:


> Did you watch that fight? He threw everything at Bonnar for two rounds, he over did it over the course of two rounds. Now the difference is Bonnar is huge tough guy that can't be finished. I do think Rua can test his cardio and it might pay off for him, but realistically it's a huge gamble and you might not make it to the 3rd round to find out.




Are you saying Bonnar is harder to finish than Rua? :confused05:



Cardio is reliant on technique and efficiency just as much as it is on being in good shape. Shogun has both.


----------



## John8204

khoveraki said:


> Are you saying Bonnar is harder to finish than Rua? :confused05:


It's not a knock on Rua I don't think anyone can really finish Bonnar(except for the doctors), the guy has a chin of granite, is the size of a HW, and has great submission defenses.


----------



## limba

John8204 said:


> It's not a knock on Rua I don't think anyone can really finish Bonnar(except for the doctors), the guy has a chin of granite, is the size of a HW, and has great submission defenses.


Bonnar has never been KO'd or Subbed.
Two time he lost by TKO due to cuts. Bonnar just likes to blled a lot...lol. 
That's why he's The American Psycho. :thumbsup:


----------



## Ivan

Shogun!Bumaye!


----------



## Sambo de Amigo

khoveraki said:


> Are you saying Bonnar is harder to finish than Rua? :confused05:
> 
> 
> 
> Cardio is reliant on technique and efficiency just as much as it is on being in good shape. Shogun has both.


I am actually going to say yes , Bonnar has a better chin than Rua , its just Shogun is better so he gets hit less and does more of the hitting.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Lets go Shogun! Hoping for a first round KO


----------



## Guy Incognito

can't wait, nervous as hell.


----------



## The Horticulturist

I can not believe this is happeneing right now!!!!!


----------



## Roflcopter

I'll say it again and I've said it before, Jones doesn't have a prayer.

Shogun within 2.


----------



## palmerboy

i need another can


----------



## vilify

My advice for Jones is keep your hands up! Shogun likes to leap in from way out with his punches. He caught Chuck like that and hit Coleman several times the same way.


----------



## LizaG

Looking forward to it, but the CroCop fight completely RUINED my UFC for tonight. Hope Shogun finishes this 'alternate'


----------



## Danm2501

LizaG said:


> Looking forward to it, but the CroCop fight completely RUINED my UFC for tonight. Hope Shogun finishes this 'alternate'


AWTA. Shogun needs to put a beating on Jones after that Cro Cop performance. Don't get me wrong, I am not a Jones hater, I'm a fan of his, but I'm an even bigger fan of Shogun, and would love to see him keep his belt, then put a beating on Rashad. War Shogun!


----------



## palmerboy

love alicia keys


----------



## michelangelo

Fighters are mic'ed walking through the tunnel now. Cool...

Jones does look a little too tight. Big, deep breath walking out...

I still pick him though. We'll see how he handles the big stage in just a moment.


----------



## khoveraki

Man... if Shogun gets dominated this will be the worst MMA night of my life. If Shogun loses and Junior gets beat by Brock, I'm gonna stop watching MMA.



Such a big night for Jones. Can't imagine the pressure.


----------



## limba

Jones does look a bit nervous, i'll admit that.

Let's arrange those buterflies in a formation, JON! :thumbsup:

Good luck!



khoveraki said:


> Man... if Shogun gets dominated this will be the worst MMA night of my life. If Shogun loses and Junior gets beat by Brock, I'm gonna stop watching MMA.
> 
> 
> *Such a big night for Jones. Can't imagine the pressure.*


The whole picture does look different right now, doesn't it?!


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5

Jones seems nervous as all hell, im a bit worried that he's going to have a huge adrenaline dump


----------



## Leed

What's up with Pride Brazilian guys coming out to club music? :confused05:
Oh well, War Shogun!

And Jones does look a bit nervous.


----------



## lagmonkey

This is one of those fights for me where I like both fighters so much that I am having a hard time rooting for/against either one. 

Looking forward to an exciting match!


----------



## khoveraki

Jones looks nervous but I bet it's nothing. Lots of fighters look nervous, nobody remembers about it after the fight though.



This is a crazy atmosphere right now.


----------



## malice

updates people updates!


----------



## BWoods

Jones coming out with a lot of high energy stuff, he's so nervous and might make some mistakes.


----------



## lagmonkey

Nice takedown by Jones ... can he do anything with?

Why am I so nervous?! LOL


----------



## khoveraki

Shogun looking SO tired.


----------



## Guy Incognito

Both look gassed


----------



## michelangelo

A nervous, less than 100% Jones is > just about anyone at LHW.


----------



## EastonAssassin

Shogun is done and gassed. i wonder what excuses are going to be made for him after this loss.


----------



## footodors

jones looking good


----------



## Terror Kovenant

khoveraki said:


> Shogun looking SO tired.


Hes not tired, hes rocked.


----------



## Rusty

Adrenaline dump for Jones:thumbsdown:


----------



## lagmonkey

khoveraki said:


> Shogun looking SO tired.


Jones hurt him pretty badly coming off the ground. Can't say that I blame him for sucking wind.

Round 1 easily to Bones!


----------



## Leed

Jones is freakin' huge!
Man, I'm worried!


----------



## Danm2501

Excellent first round for Jones. Shogun couldn't really get anything going. Hopefully it's just a bit of ring rust and he'll look more like the real Shogun in the 2nd. Jones looked mighty impressive though.


----------



## SerJ

Jones dominated that round. Sick takedown and great striking. Rua looks gassed ****. Is heat butting allowed to the chest? Or at all?


----------



## suffersystem

Wow, Shogun isn't looking very good.


----------



## khoveraki

This is the Rua from the Coleman fight.


----------



## TanyaJade

Shogun looks HORRIBLE


----------



## Bonnar426

I'm not surprised we got the Shogun that fought Forrest! He's been out of action for a year!


----------



## SerJ

Jones about to go up 2-0.


----------



## lagmonkey

Incoming broken facial bones if Shogun doesn't get out from under Jones quick, fast and in a hurry. :eek02:


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Shogun looked good on the bottom minimizing damage and threatening with subs, but once Jones drilled him he was visibly different


----------



## Leed

Where are the leg kicks? Well, when they were standing.


----------



## michelangelo

Shogun is thoroughly outclassed.


----------



## Danm2501

People talking about Shogun, but this Shogun performance is due to the sheer skill, speed, power and technique of Jones. Jones is just looking too good ATM, it's ridiculous how talented this dude is. Painful to watch as a big Shogun fan, but man alive, Jon Jones is a beast. Shogun will have to be proclaimed the next Fedor if he pulls this one out.


----------



## EastonAssassin

Bonnar426 said:


> I'm not surprised we got the Shogun that fought Forrest! He's been out of action for a year!


here we go...that didn't take long.


----------



## lagmonkey

Wow. Dominating 2 rounds for Jones.


----------



## TanyaJade

I've got to admit, I am NOT looking forward to Jones becoming the Champion in >15 minutes.


----------



## khoveraki

MMA died a little for me tonight.


----------



## LizaG

I hate that forcing the forearm onto the throat technique.....pretty dirty move IMO.

Feel bad for Shogun, 29yrs old and 3 major knee surgeries, and a year-long lay-off right into a fight with JBJ


----------



## limba

That's all!​


----------



## EastonAssassin

complete domination!!!


----------



## Chousakan

lol jones can put his palm on shoguns forehead and shogun cant hit him, insane. Also impressed with the way he is manhandling Shogun, the boy is a freak.


----------



## SerJ

Holy shit! Straight domination!!! Shogun was destroyed! Bring on Andy Silva please!!! 
Shogun gassed quick. He was not ready. Congrats Jones!!!!


----------



## lagmonkey

BOOM! What a beat down!


----------



## Blitzz

Complete domination. I even think Shogun tapped after that final knee.


----------



## Iuanes

Legend.


----------



## palmerboy

Although i'm disappointed - well done bones jones


----------



## Roflcopter

Shogun is shot to hell...AGAIN.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Jones vs Silva is not mandatory. No excuses, no questions, nothing else. Absolutely mandatory.


----------



## Danm2501

Champion 2011. Heh, turns out he is. Who can possibly beat this young man? Anderson Silva's just about the only guy I can think of, possibly Cain Velasquez. There's no-one in the 205lb division that will be able to handle the skill-set Jon Jones possesses though, the dude is just too good. So impressive, backed up all the talk. What a performance.


----------



## TanyaJade

Well, I think it's time for me to spend some time with my friend Jack Daniels.


----------



## lagmonkey

Sousa said:


> Of course that undeserving cheating piece of shit ****** wins


What? Haha!


----------



## Thelegend

time to shine baby


haters....you mad!?


----------



## Bonnar426

Damn! Shogun fans will be crying themselves to sleep tonight! Not just for Shogun but for Cro Cop as well!


----------



## Rusty

Dang!


----------



## The_Sandman

DAMN!!!

Congrats, Jon Jones... 
Rua got F'kd up..:thumbsup:


----------



## Leed

I was rooting for Shogun, but I must say.. Jones is sick.. wow..


----------



## michelangelo

Meet your new P4P champ.


----------



## Vale_Tudo

What a depressing night!


----------



## Life B Ez

Well welcome to the Jon Jones era? 

205 is crazy, no one can defend that belt.


----------



## box

Jones completely dominated in every aspect. What a killer. You haters need to get a day job.


----------



## TanyaJade

Thelegend said:


> time to shine baby
> 
> 
> haters....you mad!?


Yes...


----------



## Chousakan

lol he kissed Rogan XD


----------



## Guy Incognito

yep...


----------



## LizaG

What a sh*t night.

Well done 'alternate'.....right place.......right time I guess


----------



## michelangelo

Wow. A Cain Velasquez/JJ superfight. 

I don't think anyone else can challenge Bones right now. 



Danm2501 said:


> Champion 2011. Heh, turns out he is. Who can possibly beat this young man? Anderson Silva's just about the only guy I can think of, possibly Cain Velasquez. There's no-one in the 205lb division that will be able to handle the skill-set Jon Jones possesses though, the dude is just too good. So impressive, backed up all the talk. What a performance.


----------



## TanyaJade

I'm not going to lie, being an MMA fan just got a lot harder for me.


----------



## khoveraki

So many boos for Rashad. Whatever, I hope he beats Jones.




edit: that was so WWE.


----------



## Danm2501

Life B Ez said:


> Well welcome to the Jon Jones era?
> 
> 205 is crazy, no one can defend that belt.


Reckon Jon Jones will though, the lad has not even been threatened by anyone. He just dominated one of the best fighters in the world, destroyed him. Jon Jones is the man. I'd actually say he's the best fighter in the world. I don't think anyone possesses the well-rounded skill-set, the athleticism or the pure dominance he has shown in his career so far. Jon Jones is a beast.


----------



## Thelegend

Sousa said:


> He throws ilelgal strikes in every fight he does. Hits guys in the back of the head, illegal elbows and head butts. He didn't deserve it because he beat up on no bodies no one in the mix to even get a shot. Dana has a hard on for him so of course he says"sure why not give a title shot to the hype train". He beat virtually no body important to get the title shot and he's a ****** because he's a ******. He's a cocky piece of shit too... humble my ass


lol-what hate

fighter bashing even after JJ destroying the chanp


----------



## Life B Ez

Ari said:


> I'm not going to lie, being an MMA fan just got a lot harder for me.


Makes two of us, I think I'll just go into 205 hibernation again like I did when Chuck was champ.


----------



## Sousa

Jon Jones is to big for the 205 division anyways. He should man the **** up and goto HW if he's so amazing. I bet he wouldn't be cocky if he had to fight the Overeems of the world.


----------



## Drogo

Too big, too much reach. I'm sure we'll hear some crap about Shogun's knee, even pretending it was true you think it makes a difference? That wasn't remotely close.

Pretty obvious trend in body types in the really dominant fighters. GSP, A. Silva and now Jones all have that same tall, really broad shouldered but almost lanky build. The result seems to be they are still big and strong for the weight class but still have speed because they aren't overmuscled and a significant reach advantage.


----------



## Bonnar426

Shogun vs. Forrest Griffin 2! Dana make it happen!!!


----------



## aerius

To quote Rampage, I guess it's time for some black on black crime.


----------



## LizaG

Shogun was in no fit state to defend that belt, that wasn't the Shogun that fought Machida those two times (and won two times IMO)


----------



## Mirage445

**** GSP vs Silva...lets see some JBJ vs Silva.


----------



## Abrissbirne

Ok he is awesome. He is cocky but he is the best.
Seriously who is stopping him? No one at LHW for sure, he can win against anyone with ease in this devision. Want him to step up now to fight Ubereem/Cain/Santos plz 
He will destroy Rashad no need for that fight. And he would destroy Anderson easily. He is the Wrestler that would beat Anderson. He wouldnt get caught with a sub and he would destroy him standing as well.


----------



## Iuanes

Waaaah, you guys are such mopy bitches. You witness a historic performance of MMA, and somehow the game ain't as good any more. Get over your pettiness. Jones represents the next evolution in MMA.

No one is touching this kid at LHW, No one.


----------



## Life B Ez

khoveraki said:


> So many boos for Rashad. Whatever, I hope he beats Jones.


I hope it's a double KO I can't stand either guy, as I've made it known.



Danm2501 said:


> Reckon Jon Jones will though, the lad has not even been threatened by anyone. He just dominated one of the best fighters in the world, destroyed him. Jon Jones is the man. I'd actually say he's the best fighter in the world. I don't think anyone possesses the well-rounded skill-set, the athleticism or the pure dominance he has shown in his career so far. Jon Jones is a beast.


Who knows, he hasn't been challenged but Chuck wasn't supposed to lose to anyone either when Rampage took him apart. MMA is nuts as proven tonight, I thought Jones could win not by TKO though. This is the first champion I've ever actually hated, I can't stand the stuff that comes out of his mouth, but I feel he'll be around for a while, even though nothing is for sure.


----------



## Danm2501

Bonnar426 said:


> Shogun vs. Forrest Griffin 2! Dana make it happen!!!


YES! Now that is a re-match I wanna see. Perfect comeback fight for Shogun, or a perfect way for Forrest to get another title shot. Like it.


----------



## shenmue

As a Shogun fan that was hard to watch, Jones destroyed him and Rashad las little chance of wining IMHO.


----------



## dudeabides

I thought that fight would be more competitive, but it was still awesome to see it. What gameplan will Rashad try to work with that guy?


----------



## Guy Incognito

Sousa said:


> Hate, yeah I hate him because he's a filthy piece of shit cheater. What I said was truth and anyone who says other is blind.


how did he cheat? he headbutted him in the chest. maybe he is though just like that one in your avatar?


----------



## khoveraki

Ari said:


> Ari
> I'm not going to lie, being an MMA fan just got a lot harder for me.





Life B Ez said:


> Makes two of us, I think I'll just go into 205 hibernation again like I did when Chuck was champ.




Checking in. I said it before, if JDS loses in June I'm quitting MMA.


----------



## GlasgowKiss

Unbelievable performance by Jones. Will quite happily eat humble pie, he destroyed Rua in vicious fashion. Rue never even got out of the gates and tested Jones, it was a slow death from only a couple minutes in. Was difficult to watch Rua getting pummeled like that, Jones' arsenal looked scary dangerous.


----------



## Mckeever

khoveraki said:


> Checking in. I said it before, if JDS loses in June I'm quitting MMA.


Please lose JDS, please.


----------



## chosenFEW

Ari said:


> I'm not going to lie, being an MMA fan just got a lot harder for me.




as if one guy or weight division represents all of MMA


some of you have lost your marbles


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Rashad is going to get destroyed. I really don't see how he has a chance.


----------



## UFC_OWNS

ugh shogun man your cardio was as bad as i ever had seen you were gassed within 1 minute, there is no god


----------



## Roflcopter

That was ******* bullshit!

Shogun is too brave for his own good. He needs to spend more time regaining his form before fighting. 

They say it takes at least 2 years to regain form after an injury like this, and he had it AGAIN and spent only 7 to 8 months.


----------



## Mckeever

Shogun was completely exhausted 3/4 into the first round. WTF?


----------



## Life B Ez

khoveraki said:


> Checking in. I said it before, if JDS loses in June I'm quitting MMA.


If Fitch gets beat by BJ or gets jumped for another title shot I'll just Frank Shamrock it, I'll throw myself in the gym and forget about watching the sport.


----------



## MagiK11

shenmue said:


> As a Shogun fan that was hard to watch, Jones destroyed him and Rashad las little chance of wining IMHO.


Yeah, I'm a huge Shogun fan, and that fight was hard for me to watch as well. Wish he didn't go for those leg lock attempts and gave up bad position, but I have to give Jones all the credit. Props to him for sure.

But I don't think Rashad has much of a chance myself. 

Now I need to change my user title status, unfortunately


----------



## Life B Ez

Mckeever said:


> Shogun was completely exhausted 3/4 into the first round. WTF?


Please say you're kidding McKeever? The knee injury and lack of cardio? I'm a Shogun fan and I'm not playing that. I thought you were a Jon Jones guy?


----------



## Roflcopter

UFC_OWNS said:


> ugh shogun man your cardio was as bad as i ever had seen you were gassed within 1 minute, there is no god


Of course, he had no business being in the octagon.

I think some people in the UFC had a little secret and knew Shogun was coming to be shit, and used this to make Jones look like a God.


----------



## Emericanaddict

A GSP quote keeps running through my head...something about his performance...

I don't know why. I just didn't find this fight very inspiring at all really. Very disappointed somehow even though by all technical terms it was a brilliant performance. 

I'll sleep on it reatch and probably enjoy it when it's not t in the morning lol.


----------



## footodors

Takes down a robber and wins the belt on the same day!


----------



## FatFreeMilk

This sucks hard! 

Shogun, wow gassed real quick, maybe it was the kick to the head though? 

Jones just rubs me the wrong way, wish he wasn't like this I'd sleep better.


----------



## Mckeever

Life B Ez said:


> Please say you're kidding McKeever? The knee injury and lack of cardio? I'm a Shogun fan and I'm not playing that.


Well as you can see from my pre fight posts, I was completely neutral for both fighters.

I hate to be the first person to bring this up, but Shoguns conditioning looked ABYSMAL. He was exhausted before the first round ended, that is NOT RIGHT. He looked slow, he couldn't kick for shit, he just looked flat out terrible.


----------



## aerius

Mckeever said:


> Shogun was completely exhausted 3/4 into the first round. WTF?


He did start a bit slow which I think was his big mistake. Then after Jones slammed him with a few good knees & elbows he was never the same again, hell, any of those shots would've knocked out damn near anyone else. Bonnar's the only other guy who's been hit like that and not get knocked out cold and he's about the toughest guy in the division.


----------



## michelangelo

Some people overlook the fact that he was being punched in the face really hard. Just sayin'



Mckeever said:


> Well as you can see from my pre fight posts, I was completely neutral for both fighters.
> 
> I hate to be the first person to bring this up, but Shoguns conditioning looked ABYSMAL. He was exhausted before the first round ended, that is NOT RIGHT. He looked slow, he couldn't kick for shit, he just looked flat out terrible.


----------



## cdtcpl

I was a little disappointed in JBJ's performance because he seemed to lack that killer instinct in the first and second round. He put on a complete domination, but it took longer than it should have. He had Shogun finished in the first! My roommate and I think that maybe he wasn't sure what to do because he expected the fight to be harder. Either way, Rashad is going to get destroyed and JBJ will need to fight AS sometime soon.


----------



## Life B Ez

Mckeever said:


> Well as you can see from my pre fight posts, I was completely neutral for both fighters.
> 
> I hate to be the first person to bring this up, but Shoguns conditioning looked ABYSMAL. He was exhausted before the first round ended, that is NOT RIGHT. He looked slow, he couldn't kick for shit, he just looked flat out terrible.


Damn I'll put some credit in it if you say so, I didn't order the fights tonight, wasn't home until late. I'll have to watch it, but I won't be shocked if it happened again. It takes most athletes a year to heal from those injuries and Shogun is back training in a few months fighting in a few more.

I got bent over a chair in CPL btw.


----------



## Ape City

I knew it was gonna be bad when Shogun jumped and his mini man-boobs jiggled.


----------



## limba

Sousa said:


> He throws ilelgal strikes in every fight he does. Hits guys in the back of the head, illegal elbows and head butts. He didn't deserve it because he beat up on no bodies no one in the mix to even get a shot. Dana has a hard on for him so of course he says"sure why not give a title shot to the hype train". He beat virtually no body important to get the title shot and he's a ****** because he's a ******. He's a cocky piece of shit too... humble my ass


Go back to Sherdog...


----------



## EastonAssassin

how come Shogun NEVER loses fair and square? how come no fighter can just be better?


----------



## oldfan

Credit to Jones, he is phenomenal. But that was a very disappointing fight. Shogun *did* look exhausted 3 minutes into the 1st.

I'm not saying shogun would win at his best. I am saying that was not Shogun at his best.


----------



## UFC_OWNS

Roflcopter said:


> Of course, he had no business being in the octagon.
> 
> I think some people in the UFC had a little secret and knew Shogun was coming to be shit, and used this to make Jones look like a God.


yeah maybe dana knew this and thats why jones got the shot, he was gassed after a minute, and the fight duration is 25 minutes, and i bet everyone will say how good jones is destroying shogun even though shogun had nothing in the tank from the start


----------



## lagmonkey

shenmue said:


> As a Shogun fan that was hard to watch, Jones destroyed him ...


Amen to that. It was tough watching Shogun get manhandled but there is no denying the impressive performance put on by Jones. 

I try not to listen to all the holy roller business spilling out of his pie hole and just appreciate the fact that he really is an amazing fighter ... which explains why I am not crying myself to sleep tonight like a lot of people around this joint.

It's too bad his first title defense has to be against Rashad. I am too tired to think of who else they could feed to this young animal but other than the nonsense drama about "former team mates fighting each other" that is being shoved down our throats there is little to get excited about in my opinion.

I guess we'll see what happens next.


----------



## OHKO

Was cheering for Shogun. Seeing him get utterly dominated like that was disappointing. Jones is gonna be the LHW champ for a long long time. Can't help but notice the significant difference in size between him and Shogun.

Shogun looks flabby. Should probably lose those fats and drop down to middleweight. Then we can see Silva vs Shogun. -drools-

Don't see Rashad/Lyoto/Rampage or anyone for that matter beating Jones at LHW. Hope he clears out the division soon and move up to heavyweight!


----------



## michelangelo

There were two big questions marks coming into this fight: Jones' relative inexperience, and Shogun's recovery. Well, now we know, on both counts. 

Let's face it: Shogun at 200% of normal still loses to Bones. No amount of cardio can overcome Jones' skillset, much less his skill, strength, plus a 10 or 12" reach advantage.


----------



## Mckeever

michelangelo said:


> Some people overlook the fact that he was being punched in the face really hard. Just sayin'


Getting punched in the face doesnt make you gas out like that.

I hate to take any thing away from Jones victory and i'm not going to.

Congratulations Jones, you deserved it.

He is not god though and that was not an any where near healthy Shogun in the octagon tonight. 

Maybe injuries will be the end of Rua.


----------



## Life B Ez

UFC_OWNS said:


> yeah maybe dana knew this and thats why jones got the shot, he was gassed after a minute, and the fight duration is 25 minutes, and i bet everyone will say how good jones is destroying shogun even though shogun had nothing in the tank from the start


And they'll completely discredit the fact that Shogun may have not been right for the fight and say that we just can't accept Shogun losing and blaming it on the knee injury. But in reality a knee injury like that causes a lot of problems.


----------



## DragonStriker

It was a pretty good fight at least but man Jones is crazy some of the stuff he was pulling off.


----------



## UFC_OWNS

Life B Ez said:


> And they'll completely discredit the fact that Shogun may have not been right for the fight and say that we just can't accept Shogun losing and blaming it on the knee injury. But in reality a knee injury like that causes a lot of problems.


yep its ridiculous, i have a broken nose needing surgery and i have better cardio than what he had, i cant give jones any more credit then he destroyed a gassed out fighter


----------



## Calibretto9

I gotta say the injury was the number one reason I put points on Jones and I'm glad I did. I was pulling for Shogun but history has shown that coming off injuries he just doesn't have gas in the tank and it was proven true again. Jones is too young and too well trained to fight him and not be ready for a hard 25 minutes. 

That being said it's always a bit sad for me to see an old lion (even though he's young it's the mileage) get put down in a big fight. Shogun will be back of course and he'll be back to form I'm sure once his knee injuries are behind him but still.


----------



## Stapler

Congratulations to Jon Jones! At 23 years of age, winning a UFC title is a huge accomplishment. It's a huge accomplishment in general actually. Regardless of any excuse a fan might have for Shogun, you should give Jones credit for such a great performance. So much for being nervous. Honestly, who isn't nervous at all when going into a big fight? It's called being human.


----------



## Life B Ez

Am I the only one thinking that Machida style wise could give Jones a better fight? He has great TDD and more speed? And won't get into a brawl with Jones.

Please no MMA math that Jones>Shogun>Machida


----------



## michelangelo

Even though people realize this (at some level anyway), I'll say it anyway: a completely healthy Shogun, no a Shogun at 200% of his previous best, still loses to Jones. 



Mckeever said:


> Getting punched in the face doesnt make you gas out like that.
> 
> I hate to take any thing away from Jones victory and i'm not going to.
> 
> Congratulations Jones, you deserved it.
> 
> He is not god though and that was not an any where near healthy Shogun in the octagon tonight.
> 
> Maybe injuries will be the end of Rua.


----------



## Steroid Steve

The whining in this thread just shows that some of you guys can't appreciate a great fighter, and were just hating for the sake of it. You guys just get caught up in the drama of the media, which the majority of his interviews are taken out of context, and hate the guy for ridiculous reasons. He dominated Shogun, and that's that.


----------



## Thelegend

please dont start crying shogun had no cardio, it was the biggest thing going in and even before he gassed he was getting destroyed. jones made him gas targeted his knees with side kicks.....greg jackson and this kid is a deadly combination, rashad will get wrecked too, his chin will get rocked and rashad will roll.


----------



## Mckeever

michelangelo said:


> Even though people realize this (at some level anyway), I'll say it anyway: a completely healthy Shogun, no a Shogun at 200% of his previous best, still loses to Jones.


I agree with that, BUT, a 100 percent Shogun would have been a much more competitive bout. Gassing out completely in the first round..... God, he wasnt any where near close to being healthy enough to fight. Such a shame.


----------



## michelangelo

The truth is not welcomed around here. Please go back to your 911 conspiracy theories. 

(sarcasm directed at jones haters)



Thelegend said:


> please dont start crying shogun had no cardio, it was the biggest thing going in and even before he gassed he was getting destroyed. jones made him gas targeted his knees with side kicks.....greg jackson and this kid is a deadly combination, rashad will get wrecked too, his chin will get rocked and rashad will roll.


----------



## michelangelo

No offense, but this is wishful thinking. JJ is not Forrest Griffin, buddy. 



Mckeever said:


> I agree with that, BUT, a 100 percent Shogun would have been a much more competitive bout. Gassing out completely in the first round..... God, he wasnt any where near close to being healthy enough to fight. Such a shame.


----------



## aerius

Life B Ez said:


> Am I the only one thinking that Machida style wise could give Jones a better fight? He has great TDD and more speed? And won't get into a brawl with Jones.


Hard to say, Machida and a healthy Shogun have about the same speed, though Machida is a bit better at keeping the range open. Problem is Machida's chin isn't as good as Shogun's, those knees and spinning elbows that Jones dished out in the first round would've knocked Machida out cold.


----------



## Steroid Steve

Mckeever said:


> I agree with that, BUT, a 100 percent Shogun would have been a much more competitive bout. Gassing out completely in the first round..... God, he wasnt any where near close to being healthy enough to fight. Such a shame.


How do any of us know that he wasn't healthy enough to fight? There is really no excuses for Shogun when having that amount of time to get in shape.


----------



## Mckeever

michelangelo said:


> No offense, but this is wishful thinking. JJ is not Forrest Griffin, buddy.


What?! I just said i agreed with you.

I don't follow.

Are you saying if Shogun was 100 percent healthy, the fight still wouldnt have been in the slightest bit competitive?


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5

All i can say is that things are going to get real awkward when Jon Jones beats the absolute f-uck out of Rashad and leaves him laying on the canvas unconscious.


----------



## michelangelo

Yes, JJ dominates a completely healthy Shogun. Sorry. 



Mckeever said:


> What?! I just said i agreed with you.
> 
> I don't follow.
> 
> Are you saying if Shogun was 100 percent healthy, the fight still wouldnt have been in the slightest bit competitive?


----------



## Mckeever

michelangelo said:


> Yes, JJ dominates a completely healthy Shogun. Sorry.


I disagree with this assessment.


----------



## aerius

Mckeever said:


> I agree with that, BUT, a 100 percent Shogun would have been a much more competitive bout. Gassing out completely in the first round..... God, he wasnt any where near close to being healthy enough to fight. Such a shame.


Problem with Shogun is he's from the old school where he pretty much fights himself into shape and needs to stay active to keep in fight shape. If he can stay healthy and take a fight every 3 months or so he'll be back to the old 2005 GP Shogun in a year. The staying healthy part doesn't seem to work though.


----------



## Thelegend

Dtwizzy2k5 said:


> All i can say is that things are going to get real awkward when Jon Jones beats the absolute f-uck out of Rashad and leaves him laying on the canvas unconscious.


that will only become awkward if jones accidentally knocks him out with a side kick to the face.:thumbsup:


----------



## box

You mean, he DID dominate a completely healthy Shogun. Even Shogun himself said it.


----------



## Mckeever

Any ways, all that matters now is Brock Lesnar beating JDS, then we never have to read khoveraki's posts on this forum again.

Gone for good


----------



## Buakaw_GSP

I was surprised that Shogun didnt attempt a single leg kick. Considering how deadly his leg kicks are and that Jones legs are pretty slender and skinny, he couldve smashed them up pretty good. But man Jones just made Shogun tap, Shogun had no answer on the feet or on the ground, unbelievable.


----------



## vilify

So not only does Jones have the best wrestling @205 he can also out strike the #1 striker in the division. Thats some scary shit.


----------



## michelangelo

This makes me wonder if you even watched the fight. Jones has an enormous edge in every area: size, strength, speed, reach, striking versatility and effectiveness, as well as wrestling. 

It wss like watching a senior in high school taking a first grader's lunch money. 



Mckeever said:


> I disagree with this assessment.


----------



## Chousakan

Fighters have more white knights than hot chicks on youtube do, makes me wonder about some of you guys...


----------



## Ape City

Why are you saying Shogun isn't healthy? He was perfectly fine. He just got bombarded with way too many fast and powerful strikes and got punished cardio-wise on the ground.

Round 1 Shogunw as robbed of Cardio by Jones' constant pressure. Rounds two and three he ate so many devastating strikes as a result of using more energy than Jones. 

Jones worked him, Shogun was healthy (i'm sad).


----------



## Iuanes

Why are people assuming Shogun was hurt or out of shape? 

People always criticize fighters and fans for making excuses, except when it comes to their favourite. 

This one so far has no evidence, other than the fact that Shogun got dominated. What would a Shogun with gas tank have done? NOT get taken down, NOT get beaten to the punch? Please, he lost stylistically, not by competitive degrees, and it wasn't even close to being close.


----------



## limba

*0:00-0:31*






I respect Shogun a lot. I hope he gets back in the gym, and puts this setback behind him, like he did in the past.


All you guys who thought he actually wasn't ready...after watching those 31 seconds - question: is Shogun a liar?! Or stupid?! Or does he have amnesia and he forgot what shape he was in?!

Jones was just better. Simple as that. Tonight is was a case of Jones being: 
- bigger
- stronger
- faster

And having:

- better cardio
- better ring movement
- more creative
- better wrestling
- better ground control
- better grappling

He ven dominated the stand-up!

What more should he have done?!
Hoestly?!

Some of the post fights comments are ridiculous?!


----------



## diablo5597

I remember when I said Jones Jones was a top 3 fighter in the division and a bunch of people flamed me for it. Looks like I was right. Now I'm going to take it up a notch and say *Jon Jones is the number 2 pound for pound fighter in the world behind GSP. Possibly even number 1.*


----------



## Thelegend

Buakaw_GSP said:


> *I was surprised that Shogun didnt attempt a single leg kick.* Considering how deadly his leg kicks are and that Jones legs are pretty slender and skinny, he couldve smashed them up pretty good. But man Jones just made Shogun tap, Shogun had no answer on the feet or on the ground, unbelievable.


he did attempt one, but that one was caught and used to easily put shogun on his back.

now that i think about it, shogun couldn't sweep jones!


----------



## aerius

Buakaw_GSP said:


> I was surprised that Shogun didnt attempt a single leg kick. Considering how deadly his leg kicks are and that Jones legs are pretty slender and skinny, he couldve smashed them up pretty good.


He did, Jones got out of the attempt and reversed it into top position.


----------



## Toroian

dam rua  sad to see your favourite fighters lose in such a ways first machida now shogun. 

**** GSP! Anderson move up and fight for Brazil!


----------



## Mckeever

michelangelo said:


> This makes me wonder if you even watched the fight. Jones has an enormous edge in every area: size, strength, speed, reach, striking versatility and effectiveness, as well as wrestling.
> 
> It wss like watching a senior in high school taking a first grader's lunch money.


I watched the fight. I seen one of the best LHW's in the world on the verge of complete exhaustion within the first round.

He's bigger, stronger and has better wrestling. I dont believe he has better striking or is quicker, speed is around equal. 

Again, this is judging Shogun 100 percent, Judging him from fights against Machida, chuck, overeem, any fights where hes healthy.

He's quicker, much quicker than he shown tonight. He has some of the most technical and powerful kicks in the game. He was unable to hardly lift his leg in the second round. 

He wasnt the same in there tonight, i'm sorry.


----------



## GlasgowKiss

The only person with a remote chance of beating Jones at LHW, is Machida I reckon.

He might be the only one that could avoid Jones' rangy attacks, and potentially capitalize, he's quick, his TDD is pretty godamn good, and his BJJ is of a high level. Jones chin is still a bit untested, Machida's only shot would be to rock him with a counter and take it from there.


----------



## Ape City

limba said:


> *0:00-0:31*
> 
> 
> I respect Shogun a lot. I hope he gets back in the gym, and puts this setback behind him, like he did in the past.
> 
> 
> All you guys who thought he actually wasn't ready...after watching those 31 seconds - question: is Shogun a liar?! Or stupid?! Or does he have amnesia and he forgot what shape he was in?!
> 
> Jones was just better. Simple as that. Tonight is was a case of Jones being:
> - bigger
> - stronger
> - faster
> 
> And having:
> 
> - better cardio
> - better ring movement
> - more creative
> - better wrestling
> - better ground control
> - better grappling
> 
> He ven dominated the stand-up!
> 
> What more should he have done?!
> Hoestly?!
> 
> Some of the post fights comments are ridiculous?!​




totally agree, and this coming from someone who really hoped Shogun would pull it off.

Jones just absolutely worked the pace of the fight in the first round. Being on top with great leverage like that is bad, especially when Shogun is going for multiple sub attempts that also expend extra energy. 

Jones was much faster going into rounds 2 and 3 and it showed with the strikes he landed and gnp.​


----------



## UFC_OWNS

i am with rolfcopter, shogun dont fight again to you have your cardio back in order like machida-shogun I


----------



## Life B Ez

UFC_OWNS said:


> i am with rolfcopter, shogun dont fight again to you have your cardio back in order like machida-shogun I


Shogun Machida I was nothing like this fight, that was a stand up war, it's a lot easier to pace and keep your cardio when you aren't grappling as anyone who has done both can tell you.


----------



## vilify

I actually thought Jones was gassing a little bit but dayum he dominated.


----------



## Thelegend

its unfortunate that this fight will be put in the forest category by shogun fans.

the questionmark was always shoguns cardio before the fight, but jones was just the better fighter that night.all credit to jones, no excuses he dominated start to finish even before shogun "gassed". bring on rashad.


----------



## vilify

Jones outstruck Shogun from the beginning till end. Aint that crazy?!?


----------



## Spec0688

The quickest way to burn your cardio in a fight is having to control someone who is much bigger than you from your back. Shogun had to use *TONS* of upper body strength in the first round to keep Jones at bay, that is very exhausting and tires many fighters out.

You also can't compare this fight to any of the Machida fights, having a standup war is a lot less tiring, Shogun was on his back for less then a minute in their two fights.


----------



## saintseiya

Stop making excuse guys. Shogun trained hard since Oct last year. Bones is just beyond and above anyone else in the division. raise01:

I'm going to hate JBJ-Rashad or AS-GSP.

I want JBJ-AS. 

For the love of God (and Fedor), Dana, please make it happen!


----------



## BOMDC

Hard to watch that being a shogun fan. Like a 6th grader beating up a 4th grader. Shogun looked terrible, taking nothing away from that domination though. He really had nothing for Jones the whole fight. Couldn't believe how slow shogun's movement was from the start though. Speculate all we want but he did seem slow out the gates, maybe it was jones just doing circles around him that made it that way. Has jones even takin' a hard clean shot?


----------



## limba

Mckeever said:


> I disagree with this assessment.



Hey Mck!
I know you are neutral and of course you and all the Universe knows i'm a Jones fan, but i don't get it.
Why are you assuming Shogun wasn't 100% fit?! or 100% ready?!
When he said this with his own mouth, 2 days ago, when being interviewed by Arile Helwani...

I posted this one time already...maybe you missed it!
*First 31 seconds*






I mean...those are Shogun's own words: "i feel good, i'm 100%".
Are we gonna start assuming again?! When we have the man himself on camera talking about the situation we are debating right now?! That would sound like we know more than he does. It's absurd.

Also: all those talks about how relaxed and composed he looks. Was that for show?!



Mckeever said:


> I watched the fight. I seen one of the best LHW's in the world on the verge of complete exhaustion within the first round.
> 
> He's bigger, stronger and has better wrestling. I dont believe he has better striking or is quicker, speed is around equal.
> 
> *Again, this is judging Shogun 100 percent, Judging him from fights against Machida, chuck, overeem, any fights where hes healthy.*
> 
> He's quicker, much quicker than he shown tonight. He has some of the most technical and powerful kicks in the game. He was unable to hardly lift his leg in the second round.
> 
> He wasnt the same in there tonight, i'm sorry.


I'm gonna talk about the bolded part especially.
And, without the risck of sounding too *blind-biased*, i'm gonna say. 
What if the Shogun we saw against Machida and the one we saw against Jones is the one and the same fighter?! He was at 100% both times.

The only HUGE difference compared to all those fights is - JONES!

1. You didn't see Shogun too aggressive and rushing in because he knew about that big reach advantage. 
2. He didn't try many kicks because that would have left him open for takedowns, considering how fast Jones covers distances in the ring. You time one kick wrong and you land on your back.
3. Shogun lost the clinch battle completely. He was destroyed in the clinch, a place where normally he dominated his opponents.
And now, looking back, Jones was so right about the clinch being so important:



> "I was a Greco-Roman All-American, and the clinch is such a huge part of combat sport," Jones said. "If you look at muay Thai matches, if you look at your traditional boxing, the clinch is huge. It's a natural instinct for people to clinch when they're in a bad situation. And that's one of my main strengths. My takedowns from the clinch are very powerful, my knees from the clinch are very powerful, and I think that can be a huge mismatch that I can exploit in this fight."


4. Jones put constant pressure on Shogun, using a lot of kicks - side and frontal. Plus he always had one hand reaching for Shogun, trying to set up his strikes.
5. He completely overwhelmed Shogun on the ground and made him work very hard from the bottom. He had Shogun worried sick about those elbows. Plus, constantly covering Shogun's airways. 
Make him work hard while breathing heavily - great strategy.
6. Jones landed a lot on Shogun and had him rocked starting in the first round. And it wasn't just some simple strikes: there were some hard kicks and knees involved. That made a HUGE impact on Shogun's body going in the second round.

Knowing Shogun, and how honorable he is, even if he had somekind of problems he won't come out and complain about it. 
One thing that may have affected him is the long absence from fighting. That was always a big question mark!

In the end.....
Reality is: Jones dominated him. He was the better fighter in the cage.

And, dare i say, he is the better fighter on every night.
Maybe the best in the world.


----------



## UFC_OWNS

limba said:


> Hey Mck!
> I know you are neutral and of course you and all the Universe knows i'm a Jones fan, but i don't get it.
> Why are you assuming Shogun wasn't 100% fit?! or 100% ready?!
> When he said this with his own mouth, 2 days ago, when being interviewed by Arile Helwani...
> 
> I posted this one time already...maybe you missed it!
> *First 31 seconds*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean...thos are Shogun's own words: "i feel good, i'm 100%".
> Are we gonna start assuming again?! When we have the man himself on camera talking about the situation we are debating right now?! That would sound like we know more than he does. It's absurd.
> 
> Also: all those talks about how relaxed and composed he looks. Was that for show?!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm gonna talk about the bolded part especially.
> And, without the risck of sounding too *blind-biased*, i'm gonna say.
> What if the Shogun we saw against Machida and the one we saw against Jones is the one and the same fighter?! He was at 100% both times.
> 
> The only HUGE difference compared to all those fights is - JONES!
> 
> 1. You didn't see Shogun too aggressive and rushing in because he knew about that big reach advantage.
> 2. He didn't try many kicks because that would have left him open for takedowns, considering how fast Jones covers distances in the ring. You time one kick wrong and you land on your back.
> 3. Shogun lost the clinch battle completely. He was destroyed in the clinch, a place where normally he dominated his opponents.
> And now, looking back, Jones was so right about the clinch being so important:
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Jones put constant pressure on Shogun, using a lot of kicks - side and frontal. Plus he always had one hand reaching for Shogun, trying to set up his strikes.
> 5. He completely overwhelmed Shogun on the ground and made him work very hard from the bottom. He had Shogun worried sick about those elbows. Plus, constantly covering Shogun's airways.
> Make him work hard while breathing heavily - great strategy.
> 6. Jones landed a lot on Shogun and had him rocked starting in the first round. And it wasn't just some simple strikes: there were some hard kicks and knees involved. That made a HUGE impact on Shogun's body going in the second round.
> 
> Knowing Shogun, and how honorable he is, even if he had somekind of problems he won't come out and complain about it.
> One thing that may have affected him is the long absence from fighting. That was always a big question mark!
> 
> In the end.....
> Reality is: Jones dominated him. He was the better fighter in the cage.
> 
> And, dare i say, he is the better fighter on every night.
> Maybe the best in the world.


shogun was NOT 100% if he was then he would not look like a fat kid running a triathlon after 1 minute! props to jones for finishing him and not taking him still lightly, and you guys dont think he gassed? well you didnt hear greg jackson talk did you then? after round 2 he said to jones your a little tired but he is extremely tired. jones is the champ, but shogun was fighting on a broken motor


----------



## Stapler

Hey Limba, I think it's time that you update your signature. Congratulations on being right as well. I think that you called this before Jones was even considered to be in the top 10 at 205 if I remember correctly. Good call!


----------



## vilify

UFC_OWNS said:


> shogun was NOT 100% if he was then he would not look like a fat kid running a triathlon after 1 minute! props to jones for finishing him and not taking him still lightly, and you guys dont think he gassed? well you didnt hear greg jackson talk did you then? after round 2 he said to jones your a little tired but he is extremely tired. jones is the champ, but shogun was fighting on a broken motor


Jones broke his motor :thumb02:


----------



## aerius

limba said:


> I mean...those are Shogun's own words: "i feel good, i'm 100%".
> Are we gonna start assuming again?! When we have the man himself on camera talking about the situation we are debating right now?! That would sound like we know more than he does. It's absurd.


The problem is he said the exact same thing in the post fight interview after the Coleman fight. There was no way in hell he was 100% in that fight, so either he was just saying it or his translator got creative.



> One thing that may have affected him is the long absence from fighting. That was always a big question mark!


That I think is his biggest problem, Shogun's had his best fights when he's able to stay active and fight every 2-3 months. He needs those fights to stay sharp and fight his best.


----------



## Trix

Fight went exactly how I thought it would..

There will be a lot of unhappy people in brazil tonight.


----------



## diablo5597

Does anyone truly believe it matters if Shogun was at 100% or not? Lets be honest with ourselves... Jon Jones is an absolute beast. He is arguably the number 1, 2, or 3 pound for pound best in the world. He's only 23 and he is only going to get better. Someday he may be the best pound for pound fighter to ever walk the earth if he is not already. 

I think Shogun is amazing. Definitely top 10 pound for pound. Jon Jones beat him up like he was a child. Even if Shogun was injury free, with great cardio, and on steroids, Jon Jones would still destroy him. I truly believe he would destroy Anderson Silva as well. I can only see HW's giving him trouble and even then he might beat most of them. It doesn't take an expert on fighting to see that Jon Jones is on another level.


----------



## peanuts40

Got to say im dissapointed Shogun lost. Jon Jones is a freak and one hell of a fighter, i just don't like him personally. Honestly Silva is looking like the only one that can possibly beat this guy, and that's a big IF.


----------



## Trix

Well, JBJ has a hella long reach and can pound you from long range.

If you close in to land a punch, you get taken down and controlled by someone much heavier and stronger who seems to have great wrestling.

Those are 2 huge problems that are very difficult to solve.

Brazilian fighters who typically have average TDD and not so well developed wrestling can't do much other than get pounded on if JBJ gets his hands on them.

I don't think Shogun was outclassed. JBJ size, reach and wrestling are all a large part of why he's able to dominate ppl. Its not only that hes big, but moreso that he knows exactly how to use his size and weight to his advantage.

Unlike most fighters who only have striking or wrestling, JBJ seems to have both.

How do you stop someone like that? I dont think its really easy.


----------



## SerJ

I'm still shocked on how easy Jones made it look. Sure, Rua wasn't at his best shape, but even a non rusty in shape Rua would Not beat Jones. Jones is the new breed. Along with Edgar and GSP, these guys are the new school that came to destroy. The only hope left for the old guard is the man known as Anderson Silva! Forget GSP/Silva...We want Jones/Silva now!


----------



## TraMaI

Silva is the original new breed fighter. 

I'm still smiling ear to ear. Jones is amazing. Hes just made the champ look like nothing. Dude is a monster!


----------



## oldfan

I've had all of the "jon jones is the greatest thing ever" I can stand.
I'll check back next week after Davis destroys Nog. 

Then it'll be "Davis is the only hope against jones"

Don't y'all go getting carried away now.:bye01:


----------



## limba

LOL OWNS! 
As you can see, i am not throwing it in the face of others...i am jusy enjoying the moment, because i believed in it.
But i will disect you post, just like i always do.
For the puropose of trying to make some common sense and.......for the fun of it.



UFC_OWNS said:


> *shogun was NOT 100%* if he was then he would not look like a fat kid running a triathlon after 1 minute!


Are you calling Shogun a liar?!
Should i post that vid again?! 



UFC_OWNS said:


> props to jones for finishing him and not taking him still lightly, *and you guys dont think he gassed? well you didnt hear greg jackson talk did you then? after round 2 he said to jones your a little tired but he is extremely tired.* jones is the champ, but shogun was fighting on a broken motor


Of course Jackson is gonna say this! It was obvious. And it's a way for a coach to calm his fighter and make him feel comfortable.
But some of you are saying Shogun gassed himself out. From what?! He barely tried any combinations - kicks + strikes. It's impossible to gas from that alone.
Some of you are making this look/sound like Jones' actions had nothing to do with Shogun tiring (not gassing).
Jones kicked Shogun, he outstruck him, outgrappled him, he even controlled Shogun's breathing.
And he rocked Shogun pretty badly in that first round.
Combine all these things and you will see whu Shogun tired so badly.

Make no mistake: Shogun is by no means done or something like that.
Some poeple are already overlooking him.
It's the same Shogun: he hasn't lost his skills, nore his instincts.
But last night he went against a guy whos fighting style and physical abilities were going supposed to cause big problems for Shogun. 
Every striker knows that when you face a world class wrestler you can't overcommit or you will end up on your back. 
I'm not gonna look in my posting archive, but i said over a month ago: neither guy has fought anyone like they're gonna fight on March 19. For Shogun was more than true. 
He never fought a guy like Jones before last night. Such a powerful and versatile wrestler. (Randleman and Coleman don't count).

Shogun will back to training and he will come back. Hopefully against Rampage, Randy or Lil Nog.
Some old school pls.





aerius said:


> The problem is he said the exact same thing in the post fight interview after the Coleman fight. There was no way in hell he was 100% in that fight, so either he was just saying it or his translator got creative.
> 
> That I think is his biggest problem, Shogun's had his best fights when he's able to stay active and fight every 2-3 months. He needs those fights to stay sharp and fight his best.


Agreed in a way. 
His long absence from fighting played a role also. Every fighter knows/says: training and fighting aren't the same...NO WAY!




Nick_V03 said:


> Hey Limba, I think it's time that you update your signature. Congratulations on being right as well. I think that you called this before Jones was even considered to be in the top 10 at 205 if I remember correctly. Good call!


I have that sig for over a year  Last march or february.
I just believed he could do it.


----------



## UFC_OWNS

limba said:


> LOL OWNS!
> As you can see, i am not throwing it in the face of others...i am jusy enjoying the moment, because i believed in it.
> But i will disect you post, just like i always do.
> For the puropose of trying to make some common sense and.......for the fun of it.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you calling Shogun a liar?!
> Should i post that vid again?!
> 
> 
> 
> Of course Jackson is gonna say this! It was obvious. And it's a way for a coach to calm his fighter and make him feel comfortable.
> But some of you are saying Shogun gassed himself out. From what?! He barely tried any combinations - kicks + strikes. It's impossible to gas from that alone.
> Some of you are making this look/sound like Jones' actions had nothing to do with Shogun tiring (not gassing).
> Jones kicked Shogun, he outstruck him, outgrappled him, he even controlled Shogun's breathing.
> And he rocked Shogun pretty badly in that first round.
> Combine all these things and you will see whu Shogun tired so badly.
> 
> Make no mistake: Shogun is by no means done or something like that.
> Some poeple are already overlooking him.
> It's the same Shogun: he hasn't lost his skills, nore his instincts.
> But last night he went against a guy whos fighting style and physical abilities were going supposed to cause big problems for Shogun.
> Every striker knows that when you face a world class wrestler you can't overcommit or you will end up on your back.
> I'm not gonna look in my posting archive, but i said over a month ago: neither guy has fought anyone like they're gonna fight on March 19. For Shogun was more than true.
> He never fought a guy like Jones before last night. Such a powerful and versatile wrestler. (Randleman and Coleman don't count).
> 
> Shogun will back to training and he will come back. Hopefully against Rampage, Randy or Lil Nog.
> Some old school pls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed in a way.
> His long absence from fighting played a role also. Every fighter knows/says: training and fighting aren't the same...NO WAY!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have that sig for over a year  Last march or february.
> I just believed he could do it.



ill end these mind numbing threads with this young limba, i dont want to see silva-gsp, i dont want to see jones-evans i want to right away see jones-silva at 205 for the lhw title and if silva wins he can just vacate it straight away, congrats to jones but shogun get your ass to AKA with cain and get fit!


----------



## Life B Ez

limba said:


> Are you calling Shogun a liar?!
> Should i post that vid again?!
> 
> 
> Of course Jackson is gonna say this! It was obvious. And it's a way for a coach to calm his fighter and make him feel comfortable.


Of course Shogun is going to say he's 100%........That's just a stupid point and if you watch Shogun Forrest, he gassed from throwing like ten punches in the first. I haven't seen this fight so I can't comment on whether he really was tired, but a fighter will say he's 100% and you don't need to go hard for a long time if you're in shit cardio shape to start.


----------



## NotDylan

Jones uses his hype to defeat Shogun's knee and cardio! :sarcastic12:

Folks, Jon Jones isn't even peaking yet, not even close.


----------



## MMA87

EastonAssassin said:


> how come Shogun NEVER loses fair and square? how come no fighter can just be better?


Yup, seems like there is always an excuse when it is shogun, heaven forbid someone should be better than him:confused02:


----------



## Mirage445

oldfan said:


> I've had all of the "jon jones is the greatest thing ever" I can stand.
> I'll check back next week after Davis destroys Nog.
> 
> Then it'll be "Davis is the only hope against jones"
> 
> Don't y'all go getting carried away now.:bye01:


Davis would get dismantled by JBJ.


----------



## Crester

UFC_OWNS said:


> shogun was NOT 100% if he was then he would not look like a fat kid running a triathlon after 1 minute! props to jones for finishing him and not taking him still lightly, and you guys dont think he gassed? well you didnt hear greg jackson talk did you then? after round 2 he said to jones your a little tired but he is extremely tired. jones is the champ, but shogun was fighting on a broken motor


I think Shogun was fine... he just never came across somebody like Bones Jones before. Shogun did push forward... but every time he did Bones would just shove his head and push Shogun back... or he'd kick Shogun and push him back.

Shogun is still a great fighter... he just never came across someone likes Bones. They talked about the Machida era... Shogun era... but I think this really is the JBJ era this time.


----------



## NotDylan

Maybe it was already mentioned, did anyone else notice Shogun tap the moment/right after the ref stopped it?


----------



## Crester

Yup... Shogun "tapped due to strikes".

I think Shogun was getting beat up and he had no idea what to do... so he just quit.


----------



## mohammadmoofty

lol i knew i was going to read all over the place that shogun wasn't 100%. im a huge shogun fan and it just comes down to the fact that jones is alot better.


----------



## limba

Life B Ez said:


> Of course Shogun is going to say he's 100%........That's just a stupid point and if you watch Shogun Forrest, he gassed from throwing like ten punches in the first. I haven't seen this fight so I can't comment on whether he really was tired, but a fighter will say he's 100% and you don't need to go hard for a long time if you're in shit cardio shape to start.


Let's be realistic a bit please.
You're saying: "of course he is going to say this".
But at the same time you're saying that something wasn't right = he wasn't 100% fit.

After all the shit people threw at Jones for being *fake* and talking *crap* - doesn't this put Shogun and/or his camp in a much more worse position?!
By saying he was 100% fit, when he wasn't, and going like that in a fight: 
1. didn't he disrespect the fans?! 
2. didn't he offer false hope to everyone that was counting on him?!
3. wasn't he a hypocrite when he said *Jones' behavior is ridiculous*, when in fact he was the one acting *ridiculous*?!
4. wasn't he and his camp playing the victim card, when saying they're not getting the respect they deserve?!, when in fact they knew they're not ready to go full throttle against Jones and give the fans a performance worthy of a champion?!

I honestly believe everything from point 1 to 4 has *fairy tale* written all over it.

The knee surgery was very unfortunate, that's true and i believe fighters coming after such big surgeries aren't the the same way they were before surgery: they lose someting in the process.
But, after the first surgery, he and his camp said his performance suffered because he didn't go through the heeling process 'til the end and started training much sooner than he should have.
After this surgery, he and his camp said that he followed all the steps to recovery, not cutting any corners. And by ocotber he resumes training. he knew he's fightng in March: that gave him 6 months to train. 
If indeed, he wasn't 100% fit...or ready, that raises a BIG question mark about his work ethic and dedication.

Gassing/tiring in a fight can be prevented. You just have to train your ass off. 
Run, swim, weigh lifting - whatever it takes.
Showing up in a title fight with poor cardio is not an excuse for losing a fight.
Jones did his part. He endured 2 back to back training camps, in just 5 months. You think it wasn't hard for him?!
I doubt it.

I could say "i know" Shogun. After watching him since the days of Pride. He is not a guy who plays with words just for the sake of it. For him, words like *honor* and *respect* mean something.
I refuse to believe he went into this fight knowing he isn't 100% ready.
I'll agree that the long absence from the cage was more important than some people thought it would be.
But i believe in Shogun.
He is still young and he definitely can make some waves in the years to come. A lot of great fights await him: Rampage, Lil Nog, Griffin, Randy, Thiago Silva...even a rematch with Jones. Who knows?!

Truth is: Jones beat him by just being the better fighter: in all areas of the game last night, striking included.

And at the rate he is absorbing MMA knowledge an implements it in his fighting, Jones seems to have no limits.


----------



## UFC_OWNS

man i just want shogun to have another year off just to train cardio, if he has another knee injury i say his career is done


----------



## bimmu

I think he started slowing down in the first round after Jones kicked his head when they were getting up. That'll stun you and take you right out of the game. After that, he looked slow and his punches looked like those of a dazed man.

I'm a Shogun fan, but IMO, he looked slow and dazed because Bones made him dazed.


----------



## ptw

Gotta say I am impressed. He didn't dominate Shogun like all the others he's fought, but he certainly was on another level in that fight. I think he's going to dominate Rashad :/ rather see him fight Rampage, or Machida.


----------



## Sambo de Amigo

I dont know why the result is a surprise , Jones is a wrestler Shogun is a striker mix the 2 and most of the time the wrestler wins like i said. 

Jones whipped Shogun end of story.


----------



## SmackyBear

NotDylan said:


> Maybe it was already mentioned, did anyone else notice Shogun tap the moment/right after the ref stopped it?


Yup.


----------



## K R Y

Yeah I saw what I thought was a tap from Shogun.

Very sad to see Shogun man handled like that. But wow... Jones looked absolutely phenomenal. It's not even funny how good that guy looked. His striking wasn't only flashy, it was spot on. 

It's been said a million times for a million different fighters, but I really don't see anyone beating him anytime soon...


----------



## SM33

Congrats to Jon he imposed his game well. Honestly though I was more impressed with Rua, they dont come tougher than him and he was constantly aggressive, knowing that Jon was too big. All of Jon's fights at 205 will look like this and I cant see anyone putting up a better effort than Shogun did.

If Jones wants to challenge himself he needs to fight HW IMO, I dont see the point in him fighting a load of guys similar in size to Rua and doing the same thing to all of them. Plus if Shogun truly is healthy, he can then get back to ruling LHW because he is that good. 

I cant see Silva beating Jones either, the reach is too much for anyone 6'2 or less IMO.


----------



## No_Mercy

Hmm...what I saw was TWO of the most prolific legendary PRIDE fighters go down hard. Fawk...devastation. Do you guys realize how much pain those two dished out over the years and to see that return like a Karmic Boomerang is...surreal. 

Crocop was doing decent and probably winning by the 3rd til the KO. Also remember Schaub got a point deduction I believe.

Shogun, man he fought the way I expected him too. Jones on the other hand showed poise, confidence, unlike any other fighters with the exception of the young Shogun back when he was 23. Shogun came out swinging, but Jones completely took him out of his element. 

Can you believe how many times the LHW belt has changed hands.

1.) Ice Man
2.) Rampage
3.) Gump
4.) Sugar
5.) The Dragon
6.) Shogun
7.) Bones

Next up

1.) Rashad
2.) Rampage
3.) Machida

Enter "The Spider."


----------



## texturedleech

I really thought shougn was going too win but as soon i seen how big the size difference was like going too be a tough night for shogun. It really looked like a lhw vs hw last night. 

Jones really impressed me with his knees timed every signal one right but has too be said shogun has heart of a champion he was rock about six times before going down.

I wouldn't say this is the jones era just think new era of the lhw division of guys of his size dropping to the lhw.


----------



## Mckeever

limba said:


> Hey Mck!
> I know you are neutral and of course you and all the Universe knows i'm a Jones fan, but i don't get it.
> Why are you assuming Shogun wasn't 100% fit?! or 100% ready?!
> When he said this with his own mouth, 2 days ago, when being interviewed by Arile Helwani...
> 
> I posted this one time already...maybe you missed it!
> *First 31 seconds*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean...those are Shogun's own words: "i feel good, i'm 100%".
> Are we gonna start assuming again?! When we have the man himself on camera talking about the situation we are debating right now?! That would sound like we know more than he does. It's absurd.
> 
> Also: all those talks about how relaxed and composed he looks. Was that for show?!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm gonna talk about the bolded part especially.
> And, without the risck of sounding too *blind-biased*, i'm gonna say.
> What if the Shogun we saw against Machida and the one we saw against Jones is the one and the same fighter?! He was at 100% both times.
> 
> The only HUGE difference compared to all those fights is - JONES!
> 
> 1. You didn't see Shogun too aggressive and rushing in because he knew about that big reach advantage.
> 2. He didn't try many kicks because that would have left him open for takedowns, considering how fast Jones covers distances in the ring. You time one kick wrong and you land on your back.
> 3. Shogun lost the clinch battle completely. He was destroyed in the clinch, a place where normally he dominated his opponents.
> And now, looking back, Jones was so right about the clinch being so important:
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Jones put constant pressure on Shogun, using a lot of kicks - side and frontal. Plus he always had one hand reaching for Shogun, trying to set up his strikes.
> 5. He completely overwhelmed Shogun on the ground and made him work very hard from the bottom. He had Shogun worried sick about those elbows. Plus, constantly covering Shogun's airways.
> Make him work hard while breathing heavily - great strategy.
> 6. Jones landed a lot on Shogun and had him rocked starting in the first round. And it wasn't just some simple strikes: there were some hard kicks and knees involved. That made a HUGE impact on Shogun's body going in the second round.
> 
> Knowing Shogun, and how honorable he is, even if he had somekind of problems he won't come out and complain about it.
> One thing that may have affected him is the long absence from fighting. That was always a big question mark!
> 
> In the end.....
> Reality is: Jones dominated him. He was the better fighter in the cage.
> 
> And, dare i say, he is the better fighter on every night.
> Maybe the best in the world.


Bro, it was obvious from the get go that Shogun wasn't near healthy. Just look at how damn slow he was! Just his movement in general. Look at his movement, his timing, his reactions and speed in not just the machida fights but any fights hes been 100 percent and compare them to last night.....He looked AWFUL, straight up awful.

Not sure what the video has to do with any thing. Every single fighter in the world says they are 100 percent healthy before going into a fight, they're not going to admit they're not fit or ready, no one would do that.

People keep referring back to the machida fights and saying they were nothing alike because shogun expended energy on the ground, true, but there are pplenty of ruas fights where he has been pressured heavily early on and not gassed like that. Look at the alistair overeem fights. Alistair actually started quite similar to Jones did, fast hard, hard rua pinned on the ground, kneeing him, making shogun work. Shogun came back with great cardio and mauled Overeem.

A blind man could see that Rua wasn't close to being healthy for this fight, you dont completely exhaust yourself in the first round like that, unless there is some thing 
seriously wrong with your conditioning.

Jones is a beast though, but I have no real interest in seeing him fight Evans. Lets just get straight to business and book Anderson vs Bones.


----------



## limba

Mckeever said:


> Bro, it was obvious from the get go that Shogun wasn't near healthy. Just look at how damn slow he was! Just his movement in general. Look at his movement, his timing, his reactions and speed in not just the machida fights but any fights hes been 100 percent and compare them to last night.....He looked AWFUL, straight up awful.
> 
> Not sure what the video has to do with any thing. Every single fighter in the world says they are 100 percent healthy before going into a fight, they're not going to admit they're not fit or ready, no one would do that.
> 
> People keep referring back to the machida fights and saying they were nothing alike because shogun expended energy on the ground, true, but there are pplenty of ruas fights where he has been pressured heavily early on and not gassed like that. Look at the alistair overeem fights. Alistair actually started quite similar to Jones did, fast hard, hard rua pinned on the ground, kneeing him, making shogun work. Shogun came back with great cardio and mauled Overeem.
> 
> A blind man could see that Rua wasn't close to being healthy for this fight, you dont completely exhaust yourself in the first round like that, unless there is some thing
> seriously wrong with your conditioning.
> 
> Jones is a beast though, but I have no real interest in seeing him fight Evans. Lets just get straight to business and book Anderson vs Bones.


I know Shogun can come back. I hope Shogun will come back.
I have nothing but respect for the guy.
I felt sorry to see Shogun go down like that, even though many would think i'm talking shit - based on my *man-love* for Jones.

I've tried to use some arguments, to explain why i think he was OK.
But, who knows?! Maybe he wasn't?!
Only he knows.

But again, we find ourselves speculating like we're on Wall Street or something.

As far as you going back to the Pride days - 2005 to be more precise - in order to prove a thing, i don't think you should have, because we are talking of a different time, different organisation, with different rules: soccer kicks, no elbows, 10 minutes round, ring instead of cage.
And different fighters.

But like i said it already - 4 or 5 times - i believe Shogun's long absence from the cage was more important than anything. Because everyone knows: training and fighting are as different as the Sun and the Moon.

Plus, i don;t want people to take anything aways from Jones honestly: Jackson had a great strategy for him and he implemented perfectly, while using some of his tricks in the process. 
Jones made this fight easy for him first of all, by being aggressive and very intelligent. 
Something a lot of people didn't give him credit before
the fight.

As far as Jones vs Silva - i don't think it should happen.
There's no point in seeing that.
Silva has shown how vulnerable is against wrestlers - Sonnen.

Jones is Sonnen, Version 5.0, in every aspect of the game: bigger, stronger, faster, more aggressive, better striker, better grappler, better ring movement, more creative....

You do the math.


----------



## No_Mercy

Although Shogun looked a tad bit off/slow I think it had more to do with Jone's reflexes. Shogun came out agressively, but hit air, then got taken down with an Undertaker choke slam...haha of all things. That was the beginning of the end although he didn't take much damage he expended a lot of energy. What I saw was a much more bigger and athletic individual dominate a fight. JBJ is pretty HUGE man for LHW. Very impressive showing from such a young kid. 

I got the same feeling last night as when Shogun beat Machida. The same feeling... Nobody wants to see someone get brutalized like that. It's fricken surreal. 

*"You gotta take it as you give it."* *- No Mercy*


----------



## Mckeever

limba said:


> I know Shogun can come back. I hope Shogun will come back.
> I have nothing but respect for the guy.
> I felt sorry to see Shogun go down like that, even though many would think i'm talking shit - based on my *man-love* for Jones.
> 
> I've tried to use some arguments, to explain why i think he was OK.
> But, who knows?! Maybe he wasn't?!
> Only he knows.
> 
> But again, we find ourselves speculating like we're on Wall Street or something.
> 
> As far as you going back to the Pride days - 2005 to be more precise - in order to prove a thing, i don't think you should have, because we are talking of a different time, different organisation, with different rules: soccer kicks, no elbows, 10 minutes round, ring instead of cage.
> And different fighters.
> 
> But like i said it already - 4 or 5 times - i believe Shogun's long absence from the cage was more important than anything. Because everyone knows: training and fighting are as different as the Sun and the Moon.
> 
> Plus, i don;t want people to take anything aways from Jones honestly: Jackson had a great strategy for him and he implemented perfectly, while using some of his tricks in the process.
> Jones made this fight easy for him first of all, by being aggressive and very intelligent.
> Something a lot of people didn't give him credit before
> the fight.
> 
> As far as Jones vs Silva - i don't think it should happen.
> There's no point in seeing that.
> Silva has shown how vulnerable is against wrestlers - Sonnen.
> 
> Jones is Sonnen, Version 5.0, in every aspect of the game: bigger, stronger, faster, more aggressive, better striker, better grappler, better ring movement, more creative....
> 
> You do the math.


Yea, lets just end the debate on whether he was tired or not, I dont want to knock Jones performance either, because it was spectacular.

The creativity in his striking and explosiveness is just unreal. His wrestling and sheer control is unreal.

Thinking about it, yea I always knew it was a bad stylistic match up for Silva, but after all he is p4p number 1, so regardless of styles, it would be a super fight.

Thinking about it though, I would much rather see JBJ take on cain and overeem at HW. I dont believe there is a single man at LHW that can threaten him now. I really dont want to see Jone/rashad, we all know the out come!

I'm quite an impatient guy lol, Jones has proven himself to be a freak of nature, lets get him fighting the super fights already! No need to wait!

Gotta spread before i rep.


----------



## UFC_OWNS

i actually appreciate jones "unseen" strikes and moves( i will point out that i have used everyone of jones moves in the gym before everyone had saw them just saying ) he has the same mentality as me and cung lee and silva that use whatever move you think will work or will catch them by surprise them no matter how anyone else views it, like holding your elbow on their throat on the ground is a very uncomfortable position and jones is smart enough to know this, and side kicks to keep distance among other moves are what makes his creativity brilliant


----------



## tap nap or snap

i don't think shogun's conditioning was as bad as ppl are making out, what i did notice in the fight what was on the ground bones threw a lot of elbows to the body, i think the body strikes in general especially the big knee against the cage in the 1st are what sucked the life out of shogun


----------



## limba

Mckeever said:


> Yea, lets just end the debate on whether he was tired or not, I dont want to knock Jones performance either, because it was spectacular.
> 
> The creativity in his striking and explosiveness is just unreal. His wrestling and sheer control is unreal.
> 
> Thinking about it, yea I always knew it was a bad stylistic match up for Silva, but after all he is p4p number 1, so regardless of styles, it would be a super fight.


Yup.
The creativity and unique moves he brings in the cage are really something to admire and i'm not saying this because i'm a big fan.
In fact, these are the things that made me become his fan. 

As far as a possible fight with Silva. I would have nothing against it.
But i am not convinced it would say too much.

Don't get me wrong - you or anyone else - i'm not discrediting Silva, not at all. But seeing how wrestlers have caused so many problems for Silva - Sonnen being the perfect example - it's hard for me to imagine how he would do against Jones. And i mentioned in the other post, how Jones compares to Sonnen.
They say MMA math doesn't work like this, but in this case, i believe it does.
I'm gonna sound cocky right now - I DON'T CARE REALLY - but i have this opinion about Jones vs Silva for a long time.
And those who wanna see if i'm telling the truth - i'll advise them to look into my posting history ... LOL.



Mckeever said:


> Thinking about it though, I would much rather see JBJ take on cain and overeem at HW. I dont believe there is a single man at LHW that can threaten him now. I really dont want to see Jone/rashad, we all know the out come!
> 
> I'm quite an impatient guy lol, Jones has proven himself to be a freak of nature, lets get him fighting the super fights already! No need to wait!


Jones at HW would sound awesome, but he's not yet there, in terms of weight and stregth.
Before he went to Jackson Camp, he wasn't doing proper strngth and conditioning. After he arrived at Jackson's they tried to shape him in the best LHW there is. Thus, they worked a lot on getting him in perfect shape for LHW.

I believe he will stay at LHW and fight all the big names at least once.
That would take at least 3 years. After that, we could talk
PLUS - you never know what amazing talent could pop-up from outta nowhere: 3 years ago if someone would have said: 2011 - Jone Jones, UFC LHW Champion - people would have laughed at you like you were some crazy person. Funny how things work ou, huh?


_PS: i'm looking forward on seeing Phil Davis evolve and maybe picking up the pace a bit, now that he saw what Jones did. It should definitely motivate him.
I believe Davis will also become an important contender, in the not so distant future._


----------



## mohammadmoofty

WTF @ people saying shoguns cardio was an issue. he could have a marathon runners cardio but when you get the shit kicked out of you like that your not gonna look good at all.


----------



## mohammadmoofty

:thumb02:


----------



## Fieos

Jones cardio is the one that concerned me. He was the one delivering the beat down and he had Shogon on the outs but didn't have the gas tank to put him away. I really think the guy that beats Jones is the one who can ride it out until the third round and out-work him.


----------



## JiPi

Fieos said:


> Jones cardio is the one that concerned me. He was the one delivering the beat down and he had Shogon on the outs but didn't have the gas tank to put him away. I really think the guy that beats Jones is the one who can ride it out until the third round and out-work him.


Enter RANDY COUTURE!


...


maybe not.


----------



## Nomale

Man, that was hard to watch for a Shogun fan. Congrats to Bones though, the hype was justified. Shogun couldn't deal with Bones' reach in the stand up, couldn't get inside. And the gnp was just relentless. 

I don't think you can blame it on cardio because as been said, when you get beat up you lose both endurance and spirit. 

I think Shogun needs some serious sparring with similarily long limbed individuals to learn how to deal with that freakish reach. Both standing and on bottom. But those doesn't grow on trees.


----------



## mohammadmoofty

Fieos said:


> Jones cardio is the one that concerned me. He was the one delivering the beat down and he had Shogon on the outs *but didn't have the gas tank to put him away.* I really think the guy that beats Jones is the one who can ride it out until the third round and out-work him.


did we watch the same fight?


----------



## K R Y

Fieos said:


> Jones cardio is the one that concerned me. He was the one delivering the beat down and he had Shogon on the outs but didn't have the gas tank to put him away. I really think the guy that beats Jones is the one who can ride it out until the third round and out-work him.





mohammadmoofty said:


> did we watch the same fight?


Yeah wtf? He DID put Shogun away! Before that he was taking his time and not throwing anything unnecessary and made sure when he struck it counted. Had he blown his wad trying to finish he could of gassed (Carwin/Lesnar) and not been able to put Shogun away in the 3rd.

Jones fought very smart, and unbelievably well. I started to doubt him with all the interviews and things he was saying but I'll be the first to admit he proved me wrong so hard last night. The guy is just pure talent.


----------



## hellholming

Jones may become the best of all time, but I will never be a fan of his.


----------



## UFC_OWNS

me either hellhoming i dont need to join bandwagons


----------



## Crester

Mckeever said:


> Bro, it was obvious from the get go that Shogun wasn't near healthy. Just look at how damn slow he was! Just his movement in general. Look at his movement, his timing, his reactions and speed in not just the machida fights but any fights hes been 100 percent and compare them to last night.....He looked AWFUL, straight up awful.
> 
> Not sure what the video has to do with any thing. Every single fighter in the world says they are 100 percent healthy before going into a fight, they're not going to admit they're not fit or ready, no one would do that.
> 
> People keep referring back to the machida fights and saying they were nothing alike because shogun expended energy on the ground, true, but there are pplenty of ruas fights where he has been pressured heavily early on and not gassed like that. Look at the alistair overeem fights. Alistair actually started quite similar to Jones did, fast hard, hard rua pinned on the ground, kneeing him, making shogun work. Shogun came back with great cardio and mauled Overeem.
> 
> A blind man could see that Rua wasn't close to being healthy for this fight, you dont completely exhaust yourself in the first round like that, unless there is some thing
> seriously wrong with your conditioning.
> 
> Jones is a beast though, but I have no real interest in seeing him fight Evans. Lets just get straight to business and book Anderson vs Bones.


Stop making excuses. Shogun got demolished by a guy who took advantage of his extra reach. END OF STORY


----------



## K R Y

I was a fan before the Shogun fight. Wasn't a huge fan of the talk pre fight whether it was arrogance or confidence (his win over Shogun makes me lean towards confidence). A few things he said bugged me and made me shake my head a bit, a few things I agreed with. I'm a fan but not a massive one. I'll always look forward to his fights however, and will be huuuugely pulling for him against Rashad (not that he needs it  )

His performance however, was undoubtedly spectacular whether you're a fan or not. And that's all that matters come fight night.


----------



## Drogo

This Shogun gassing stuff is sad. He "gassed" because he got punched and kicked. A lot. By a guy much bigger and stronger than him. That tends to make you tired. 

It is too bad Jones is so unlikable, he has all the attributes you need to hold a belt for a long time. That signing your name as champ is such an unbelievably immature, bush league thing to do. 

As for Machida beating Jones, I'm sorry but lol. Machida is an even smaller LHW than Rua and a large part of Rua's problem was just getting plain old rag dolled. Jones would walk through Machida even easier than Shogun (and I like Machida). Rashad has more chance than Machida and that isn't much of a chance. 

A really big, quick LHW is going to give Jones the best fight. Bader at least had comparable size but isn't fast. Griffin is another guy with the size to do it but again, has no speed or explosiveness compared to Jones.


----------



## deansheppard

That was a shock, ive always been a big fan of Jon Jones but didnt expect him to win, or even be that dominant. I really dont see anyone at the moment who can take the belt from Jones, not even Anderson Silva to be honest.


----------



## Term

SmackyBear said:


> Yup.


I didn't get to see the fight as I was out of town, but I see what people are talking about. Jones looks huge next to Rua.


----------



## prolyfic

Couple of things:
1. The people out right hating him cause they hate him...respect for at least admiting it.

2. Those calling him cheating for (headbutting the stomach LMAO) he hit him with his chin not his head, also he is not the first person to do that nor is it illegal. How bout we take away shoulder strikes too HUH? :confused03:

3. Jones looked more tired than Rua did at the end of the first, he stayed on his knees after the bell for awhile. I though that it wasnt until the 2nd where Shogun started to look tired. Cardio is not an excuse, either you had it or you didn't. Jones gassed and figured out away to rest without being inactive.

4. The Shogun imjury excuses have to stop, its ALWAYS something. His knee, his apendix, his haircut was slanted. I am not saying that these arent legitimate concerns but when he wins with these injuries there is no word of them. Also where was this concern for how he would perform with his injuries prior to the fight.....NOWHERE, no one seemed to give it a single thought then.

5. We saw HISTORY! Jones is big on faith and one thing you always here is speaking things into your life, and THAT is why he was signing "Champ 2011". He was speaking it into his life and....it worked. Not disrespect, people really know how to twist things.


----------



## kc1983

As any Shogun fan, that was definitely hard to watch. 

I'm not taking anything away from Jones whatsoever, he completely dominated. However, I can't help but notice how horrible Shogun looked. It reminded me of him in the Coleman and Forrest fight - slow, leaving himself open, keeping his hands down. Which I don't understand because he said in the pre fight interview that he was 100% healthy, but hey what else is he gonna say? Anyways, I'm gonna stop right there before I get flamed I know how sensitive people get on this forum  

This was Jones' night. He dominated and will likely hold the belt for a long time. I don't see anybody at LWH taking the title from him. I knew this guy was for real since seeing him fight for the first time.


----------



## TraMaI

prolyfic said:


> Couple of things:
> 1. The people out right hating him cause they hate him...respect for at least admiting it.
> 
> 2. Those calling him cheating for (headbutting the stomach LMAO) he hit him with his chin not his head, also he is not the first person to do that nor is it illegal. How bout we take away shoulder strikes too HUH? :confused03:
> 
> 3. Jones looked more tired than Rua did at the end of the first, he stayed on his knees after the bell for awhile. I though that it wasnt until the 2nd where Shogun started to look tired. Cardio is not an excuse, either you had it or you didn't. Jones gassed and figured out away to rest without being inactive.
> 
> 4. The Shogun imjury excuses have to stop, its ALWAYS something. His knee, his apendix, his haircut was slanted. I am not saying that these arent legitimate concerns but when he wins with these injuries there is no word of them. Also where was this concern for how he would perform with his injuries prior to the fight.....NOWHERE, no one seemed to give it a single thought then.
> 
> *5. We saw HISTORY! Jones is big on faith and one thing you always here is speaking things into your life, and THAT is why he was signing "Champ 2011". He was speaking it into his life and....it worked. Not disrespect, people really know how to twist things.*


I've been saying that since the day he cae out saying that. People are ridiculous.










I'm also pretty sure Jones broke something inside of Rua... Shogun taps at the end of that gif.


----------



## Buakaw_GSP

Calm down with the Jon Jones hype a bit guys, he just won a title and I seen threads about Jones being a #2 P4P Fighter over GSP who is now 3rd. Maybe he should actually have a couple of title defenses first before he starts getting ranked in the upper end of the P4P rankings.


----------



## hellholming

TraMaI said:


> I'm also pretty sure Jones broke something inside of Rua... Shogun taps at the end of that gif.


yeah, now I've gotta find a sledgehammer and a planeticket to USA and break Jones.


----------



## Soojooko

Shocking. wow.

Just... but... ummm... wow.


----------



## Liddellianenko

Mckeever said:


> Getting punched in the face doesnt make you gas out like that.
> 
> I hate to take any thing away from Jones victory and i'm not going to.
> 
> Congratulations Jones, you deserved it.
> 
> He is not god though and that was not an any where near healthy Shogun in the octagon tonight.
> 
> Maybe injuries will be the end of Rua.


Except you ARE trying to take away from Jones with your delusional conspiracy theories and denial. 

Yes Einstein, getting punched in the face takes away from your cardio and will. It's called getting dazed, hurt and beaten. 

Shogun can come in with 5 extra spare tanks, all it'd mean is he'd be molested for another round before turtling up.

The worst part is I had got negged for even mentioning earlier that Shogun is inconsistent in the UFC and has had cardio/performance issues. But ohh no, if you questioned Shogun leading up to the fight, you get negged for it.

Now people are hanging on to that very same excuse that they disregarded earlier, even though Shogun said he was in excellent shape during training after the final surgery.


----------



## MikeHawk

Meh, disappointing but I think Shogun's comin back even stronger and could take a rematch.


----------



## Crester

MikeHawk said:


> Meh, disappointing but I think Shogun's comin back even stronger and could take a rematch.


I think Shogun would kill most people in the LHW division except for JBJ. He would have demolished Rashad if the original fight happened. Shogun isn't done by any means... he'll come back and keep destroying people. He just don't destroy JBJ... lol


----------



## Life B Ez

MikeHawk said:


> Meh, disappointing but I think Shogun's comin back even stronger and could take a rematch.





Crester said:


> I think Shogun would kill most people in the LHW division except for JBJ. He would have demolished Rashad if the original fight happened. Shogun isn't done by any means... he'll come back and keep destroying people. He just don't destroy JBJ... lol


Don't know if he'd destroy him or even win. But I hope we do get to see a rematch some day where Shogun is not a bloated zombie like he was against Forrest.


----------



## BobbyCooper

OMG Shogun really was out of shape ones AGAIN after a knee surgery.. what a pointless fight!

I hope people do not take this fight as an indicate on how great Jon Jones is, cause you just can not do this.

Every top 30 LHW in the UFC would have destroyed Shogun that night!


but it's a great matchup for Lyoto now^^ he will be Champion again soon!


----------



## Crester

BobbyCooper said:


> OMG Shogun really was out of shape ones AGAIN after a knee surgery.. what a pointless fight!
> 
> I hope people do not take this fight as an indicate on how great Jon Jones is, cause you just can not do this.
> 
> Every top 30 LHW in the UFC would have destroyed Shogun that night!
> 
> 
> but it's a great matchup for Lyoto now^^ he will be Champion again soon!


You are delusional!


----------



## BobbyCooper

Crester said:


> You are delusional!


Shogun gassed out after the first grappling exchanges. How am I delusional?

This just wasn't a fair fight at all, cause Shogun was completely out of shape for it. 

The real Shogun is a very very different fighter Crester. Don't take this fight serious. You just can't do that!


----------



## BobbyCooper

This was Forrest/Shogun II all over again! :thumbsdown:


----------



## box

BobbyCooper said:


> This was Forrest/Shogun II all over again! :thumbsdown:


Sorry to say it, but you're reaching for an excuse. Jones simply overpowered, and beat him up. Shogun himself said he was 110% coming into it. Jones was the better fighter on Saturday, and i'd see that same outcome if they fought again.


----------



## No_Mercy

Proper_Tool said:


> Totally agree with you there *TraMaI*, he was working on the body alot in that fight including some vicious elbows when they were on the ground. Must have broke a rib or two. I reckon it was his gameplan from the start, if you have a guy with a chin like Rua then the best thing to do is to go to the body and at the very least gas the hell out of him (he followed it up by pressuring the throat and covering his mouth/nose alot). TBH Rua did well to hold out against the body shots alone, but Jones throws such varied strikes it must be dificult to know where the next one is coming from or aiming at. Much respect for Jones after this and Evans does not stand a chance.


Yah those forearms to the throat was a bit underhanded. I could see how uncomfortable it was for Shogun. Then he uses his chin and nails em in the solar plexus/abs. Creative, but a bit dirty. Not sure I really buy into Shogun being completely out of shape, but I'm sure he could have had a MUCH better outing than last night. Not very indicative to the Pride champ.


----------



## BobbyCooper

box said:


> Sorry to say it, but you're reaching for an excuse. Jones simply overpowered, and beat him up. Shogun himself said he was 110% coming into it. Jones was the better fighter on Saturday, and i'd see that same outcome if they fought again.


Why should I excuse Shogun? 

Everybody who has seen Shogun fight before can tell the difference between a healthy Rua and an unhealthy. The things I fighter says before the fight is pretty meaningless considering that he would never say anything different, than what he said.

It was a worhtless fight actually, just like Forrest vs. Shogun.


If you really believe that this was the real Shogun, then you are the one who is looking for an excuse here box.


----------



## Mckeever

box said:


> Sorry to say it, but you're reaching for an excuse. Jones simply overpowered, and beat him up. Shogun himself said he was 110% coming into it. Jones was the better fighter on Saturday, and i'd see that same outcome if they fought again.


What reason has Bobby got to dig up excuses for Shogun? Shogun is Machidas/Bobby's arch nemesis :thumb02:


----------



## Life B Ez

box said:


> Sorry to say it, but you're reaching for an excuse. Jones simply overpowered, and beat him up. Shogun himself said he was 110% coming into it. Jones was the better fighter on Saturday, and i'd see that same outcome if they fought again.


When in the entire history of fighting has a champion or a fighter even said "Oh yeah I'm not fully recovered and I couldn't work my cardio for shit because of my injury." BEFORE THE FIGHT.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Mckeever said:


> What reason has Bobby got to dig up excuses for Shogun? Shogun is Machidas/Bobby's arch nemesis :thumb02:


I don't get the people who really believe that Shogun was 100% when it's right in front of you to see. I mean that was as obvious as it gets. I really thought he would at least have enough for maybe two rounds..


----------



## avengedsixfold

Amazing victory for Jones, absolutely decimated Shogun. I could not believe the size difference, Shogun really looked out of shape and he needed to be in tip top condition to stand a chance! I still see LHW being a revolving door of champs though. :confused02:


----------



## Squirrelfighter

I was wrong.


----------



## vilify

Shogun was worried about fighting Jones and rightfully so. He got mauled badly.


----------



## Thelegend

lol, why is it that shogun gassing is used as an excuse?! in the forrest fight he was winning and then gassed. no such thing happened in this fight. from start to finish he was dominated. any other fighter gasses they dont get a pass but shogun does? carwin gassed and the running joke is he has no cardio he should train more, shogun apparently gasses and its not the real shogun. its not the first time hes gassed in a fight so why should he be excused.more to the point are we gonna assume that because shogun looked slow, its because he was tired or jones was that much faster.or that jones going to the body early and often had nothing to do with it.

should i say the same for the rampage fight in which rampage had bruised ribs? or the coleman fight where he gassed?


----------



## michelangelo

Shogun did not land a single meaningful blow in the entire fight. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Shogun at 200% of his best self still cannot beat Bones. 

JJ fought a tactical, conservative fight; a great sign despite his relative inexperience.


----------



## John8204

Only thing that cures a chin of rock...is the Liver shot.


----------



## MMA specialist

Jones is crazy! this may be a new era, who wants anderson vs. jones??


----------



## Guymay

1 thing about this fight ...it looked like HW fighting a LHW .
and i'm not a jones hater by any chance i like the guy .


----------



## Hiro

A few things...

I'm a Shogun fan and said countless times he would expose Bones... but after seeing the fight I now know Jones is somehow even better than the hype, constantly improving and probably too much for Shogun to ever deal with. His wrestling, top control and GnP is phenomenal, there is some scary natural fighting ability there that I have never seen in so many areas of the game. 

Seeing Shogun broken like that and tapping at the end is devastating, I can only imagine the pain he was in. Some broken ribs, maybe even jaw, would not surprise me. 

Shogun gassed early in the first after Bones dished some GnP. I'm not sure if that was the shots he took or just gassing through activity, but he climbed to his feet like a sloath and invited Jones to knee/kick him in the head. I just can't believe he was so gassed so early on that he lost any awareness of danger.

Jones didn't land anything meaningful on the feet prior to Shogun being gassed and rocked, I'm still not convinced he's a top striker. He is however extremely long with incredible wrestling which makes it hard for a striker to really get into it with him. Machida possibly is the best matchup for Jones. Maybe T.Silva could force a brawl and maybe he's have a better guard than Shogun? Can't really see anyone beating him but MMA has a way of surprising us so we'll see. One thing I'm certain of though is Rashad has next to no chance. Takedowns are his only hope and given Jones' strength, wrestling, speed and size... he's going to give him the same treatment.

As for Shogun, he'll be back... I'll always be a fan.


----------



## Atilak

I give my props to Jones. CG Limba 


It was very hard to watch. I hope that Shogun will return in 2011 for another fight and make this year better for him.

What was really stuning for me was the size difference. I was watching it with my fionce and she didnt understand how they can be in the same weightclass. 

I think Shogun was 100% ready health-wise. But he was not in good shape. Its just unable to achieve in that short time. I was afraid of that.

Jones was too much for Shogun that night. He is killer. 

This fight make me wonder... Im 6´3 and fighting in 205.. I would propably look like a midget next to Jones


----------



## Thelegend

Hiro said:


> A few things...
> 
> I'm a Shogun fan and said countless times he would expose Bones... but after seeing the fight I now know Jones is somehow even better than the hype, constantly improving and probably too much for Shogun to ever deal with. His wrestling, top control and GnP is phenomenal, there is some scary natural fighting ability there that I have never seen in so many areas of the game.
> 
> Seeing Shogun broken like that and tapping at the end is devastating, I can only imagine the pain he was in. Some broken ribs, maybe even jaw, would not surprise me.
> 
> Shogun gassed early in the first after Bones dished some GnP. I'm not sure if that was the shots he took or just gassing through activity, but he climbed to his feet like a sloath and invited Jones to knee/kick him in the head. I just can't believe he was so gassed so early on that he lost any awareness of danger.
> 
> *Jones didn't land anything meaningful on the feet prior to Shogun being gassed and rocked*, I'm still not convinced he's a top striker. He is however extremely long with incredible wrestling which makes it hard for a striker to really get into it with him. Machida possibly is the best matchup for Jones. Maybe T.Silva could force a brawl and maybe he's have a better guard than Shogun? Can't really see anyone beating him but MMA has a way of surprising us so we'll see. One thing I'm certain of though is Rashad has next to no chance. Takedowns are his only hope and given Jones' strength, wrestling, speed and size... he's going to give him the same treatment.
> 
> As for Shogun, he'll be back... I'll always be a fan.











5 seconds into the fight.....


----------



## Steroid Steve

Atilak said:


> I give my props to Jones. CG Limba
> 
> 
> It was very hard to watch. I hope that Shogun will return in 2011 for another fight and make this year better for him.
> 
> What was really stuning for me was the size difference. I was watching it with my fionce and she didnt understand how they can be in the same weightclass.
> 
> I think Shogun was 100% ready health-wise. But he was not in good shape. Its just unable to achieve in that short time. I was afraid of that.
> 
> Jones was too much for Shogun that night. He is killer.
> 
> This fight make me wonder... Im 6´3 and fighting in 205.. I would propably look like a midget next to Jones


Shogun is "fatter" than Jones, so that is why Jones looked so much bigger and not to mention he's taller. If Shogun didn't have as much fat, he probably could fight at 185. Jones cuts down from 240, so that is reasonable for a 205er considering how tall he is. 

On Jones' striking, he doesn't have any striking credentials, but he outstriked Shogun. He has the potential to be dangerous in any fight on the feet just because of his length and deceptive power.


----------



## Hiro

Thelegend said:


> 5 seconds into the fight.....


I hadn't seen the knee from that angle, I didn't think it landed but fair enough, one more strike than I stated.


----------



## neoseeker

Congratulations to Jones. He is a beast and it's going to be really hard to defeat him. About Shogun, it looks like he thought he could knockout Jones and didn't concentrate enough in his cardio. He seemed slower than when he fought Machida.


----------



## Rusty

Thelegend said:


> 5 seconds into the fight.....


Was wondering if that landed or not. Good find:thumbsup:


----------



## SideWays222

*Gotta give credit where credit is due*










That shit was GOAT.

I did not see that coming.


----------

