# Who do you want to see Jones fight next



## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

jones is obviously a beast and the low division is looking like a ghost town as far as legitimate threats. Who should be next?


I will give my opinion because I think there isn't a single interesting rematch , and I don't see old Hendo having a snowballs chance in hell. The prospects are also not ready leaving the field IMO wise open for Jones to move up and test the hw waters against a mid tear fighter and none is stylistically a more interesting match up than Stevan Struce. The reach the nasty guard, i think it may be one of the most interesting possible fights. 


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

I'm not really sure if I'm all that nuts over a fight with him and Gustaffson.

Gustaffson is taller than Jones actually but only has a 76 inch reach, now they don't measure the legs but do you really wanna throw kicks against Jones? His TDD also needs to be tested and I don't think Shogun will be doing that, but his chin certainly will be.

I guess it'd be Machida, he's training with Roger Gracie now and he's pretty similar to Jones in body type, who knows, maybe Machida works off his back with a guy with a similar body type to Jones and maybe if he gets Jones in a similar position that Vitor had him in last night he subs him?

Dan would be a new opponent but he'd just get taken down and brutalized.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

Gustafsson next i hope, if he beats Rua - Jones will deal with him...keep him at range until he drags him down and subs him. Then take on Henderson-Machida winner. Hopefully Teixeira keeps winning and we see that fight, a good striking/BJJ combo seems like it would be a style Jones would struggle with.

After all this there will be new contenders, nobody knows who they are yet....but they will pop up.


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## St.Paul Guy (Mar 8, 2011)

Machida/Henderson winner I'd say. Then Gustafsson/Shogun winner can fight Sonnen/Griffin winner for the next one.

It's going to be a while, so I'd like to see him pull an Anderson and go up and fight somebody at HW in the meantime..... But I don't think Uncle Greg would allow such a risky move.


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## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

The WW, MW and LHW divisons have become locked in standstills at the championship level.

I do not think anyone in those divisons has a legitimate chance at beating the champion within their division - with the possible execption of WW, only because GSP is coming off a pretty serious injury, and hasn't fought in a long time. I still think he will beat condit with relative ease, and I would be surprised if AS or JBJ lost before they retired, to be quite honest. They are freaks of nature, and are leaps and bounds above anyone else within their relative divisions.

That's why so many people are begging for these cross-divisional "superfights". Those 3 divisions have become a standstill at the #1 spot.


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## Azumo (Feb 8, 2011)

I agree. Jones has pretty much demolished all of the threats at 205 and could easily move up to HW BUT, Greg might think it's the 'stupidest idea of his career'.


Also, JJ fighting Struve? Come on. He would have the reach to hit him with ease and Stephan would just fall over. Wouldn't even be close


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

I'd like to see him dabble at HW, if he wins I'd hope he stays there. As for LHW, Rua vs Gustaf winner.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I see Hendo giving Jones a really tough fight seeing what I saw last night, so I'd like to see that fight to be honest.


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## tommydaone (Feb 19, 2010)

I say Hendo just because I feel he deserves a shot, might as well anyway as the only other fighter that has a few wins is Gus.

Jones isn't losing any time soon though so if he wanted a real challenge he should move up to HW IMO


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## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

tommydaone said:


> Jones isn't losing any time soon though so if he wanted a real challenge he should move up to HW IMO


You could probably say the same about GSP moving up to MW and taking on average/above average fighters, and AS moving up to LHW and taking on average/above average fighters.

I don't know what the answer is. I'm 100% against pressuring fighters to fight outside thier natural weight class, especially because they have excelled at the sport and cleaned out their divisons. 

The UFC needs to do everything they can to help develop fighters for the sake of progressing these divisions that have come to a standstill.


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## RedRocket44 (Sep 18, 2011)

Azumo said:


> I agree. Jones has pretty much demolished all of the threats at 205 and could easily move up to HW BUT, Greg might think it's the 'stupidest idea of his career'.
> 
> 
> Also, JJ fighting Struve? Come on. He would have the reach to hit him with ease and Stephan would just fall over. Wouldn't even be close


Greg might have a point. I'm not sure if JBJ would be the HW champion, but he sure would leave his mark on the divison. 

The problem, as I see it, is that Jones currently cuts to 205, while there are fighters who still cut to weigh in at 265 (not many mind you). The 60lb differential from LHW to HW is a big one. 

JBJ fighting Lesnar would have been interesting. While JBJ has the obvious skill advantage, the size advantage of somebody like Lesnar is just down right scary (to any HW coming in at 205-230ish). I'm sure JBJ would put on some weight, but for him to fight somebody with the frame like Lesnar is a good comparison to having GSP fight Silva.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

RedRocket44 said:


> Greg might have a point. I'm not sure if JBJ would be the HW champion, but he sure would leave his mark on the divison.
> 
> The problem, as I see it, is that Jones currently cuts to 205, while there are fighters who still cut to weigh in at 265 (not many mind you). The 60lb differential from LHW to HW is a big one.
> 
> JBJ fighting Lesnar would have been interesting. While JBJ has the obvious skill advantage, the size advantage of somebody like Lesnar is just down right scary (to any HW coming in at 205-230ish). *I'm sure JBJ would put on some weight, but for him to fight somebody with the frame like Lesnar is a good comparison to having GSP fight Silva.*


It's a good comparison to Jon's last 5 fights, which isn't a knock on Jon. Shogun and Rampage are good examples of natural LHW's, they can't make 185lb and would be undersized at HW.

Jones would not be undersized at HW, he has a bigger wingspan than any HW and has room to bulk up and stay nimble.


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## rul3z (Jun 27, 2010)

The whole 205 division is wreked! Jones swept them all!

IMO he moves UP to HW, he will have great tests there.


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## Rauno (Nov 20, 2009)

Dan Henderson.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Anderson at 205

Dos Santos and Overeem at HW.

No other John Jones fight at LHW interests me at all..


Do something with the old guard... Machida, Shogun, Rashad and mix them into fights with the James Tehunas and Glovers and Gustoffsons it could become compelling again... but good god lets groom some talent.

LHW is a boring rerun below the champ.. Props to my favorite media mess John Jones for thrashing the top 205ers and making them yesterdays news very fast..


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

I'd like to see him fight the winner of Shogun/Mauler. Gustafsson is interesting since he is basically the only young guy who looks like he could be a legitimate challenger and Shogun might decide to not fight like an idiot next time and kick Bones in his bird legs over and over again.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

It's time for Cormier to step into the picture although we all wouldn't mind seeing a rematch with Lyoto, Shogun, then Hendo and Gustaf. 

Cormier is the one to watch...


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## Budhisten (Apr 11, 2010)

I still want to see him fight Hendo, and maybe Gustafsson if he has a good showing against Shogun.

And if those fights happen, who knows - maybe we'll be hyped for a Machida rematch, Texeira or perhaps Anderson will have changed his tune...

I still think it's way too soon for this kid to be considering HW, he has a long career ahead of him, so no need to rush it 

EDIT: I'd also love to see him fight Cormier at 205


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## marcthegame (Mar 28, 2009)

I'll call it right now, Jimi Manuwa will be the next big thing in the UFC and will beat Jones.


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## Dtwizzy2k5 (Jul 7, 2008)

In terms of pure LHWs, the only fights I would like to see are Gus if he beats Shogun and Henderson if he beats Machida (assuming they fight). Aside from that, it's time for Bones to start 'dabbling' like Anderson does; he can have some fun fights at HW, or even a LHW title fight with Anderson which is the #1 most exciting fight the UFC can possibly make right now.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

marcthegame said:


> I'll call it right now, Jimi Manuwa will be the next big thing in the UFC and will beat Jones.


His backstory has certainly caught my attention. Lets see how he does against Kyle, but he's already 32. 

It's time he fights someone bigger than him. He has a huge size advantage against every single one of his opponents.


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## Joabbuac (Jan 31, 2009)

marcthegame said:


> I'll call it right now, Jimi Manuwa will be the next big thing in the UFC and will beat Jones.


I cant wait to see what he has got.


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## fenderman80 (Sep 12, 2006)

Call me crazy but I'd like to see Bonnar have another crack at JBJ provided he gets past Silva. I re- watched that fight the other day and Id have to say that out of all the guys JBJ has beat, Bonnar gave him the best fight. Bonnar is a good, durable fighter with good boxing and a solid ground game. He's a big, strong LWH with an 80in reach and he'll keep coming forward. Just my two cents


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

_RIVAL_ said:


> No other John Jones fight at LHW interests me at all..
> 
> 
> Do something with the old guard... Machida, Shogun, Rashad and mix them into fights with the James Tehunas and Glovers and Gustoffsons it could become compelling again... but good god lets groom some talent.
> ...


This, Jones has taken what was considered the most stacked and competitive division in all of MMA and in under 2 years has turned it into a one man show. Jones may already have the most impressive record in MMA.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I'd have Hendo get an automatic shot and Machida fighting Rampage.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I'd have Hendo get an automatic shot and *Machida fighting Rampage*.


YES GOD PLZ!

I really want Machida to get that one back.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

TheLyotoLegion said:


> YES GOD PLZ!
> 
> I really want Machida to get that one back.


I actually dont want Machida to get a title shot for a while. I hope he gets a fight with Page, and Shogun loses to Gus. Then Gus gets a title shot and Machida and Shogun settle it once and for all. After such an amazing streak I think Machida deserves the chance to avenge his losses, especially since they are aging fighters he lost to. Jones is there but Machida will work up to there.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

super dan


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## Thelegend (Nov 2, 2009)

henderson and then a bit after that a rematch with machida then maybe give glover a shot at the strap.


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## Hail the Potato (Jul 29, 2010)

M.C said:


> I see Hendo giving Jones a really tough fight seeing what I saw last night, so I'd like to see that fight to be honest.


I guess I'll have to rewatch the fight because you must have picked up on something I missed. Jones instantly took Belfort down and brutalized him from inside the guard for most of the fight. 
Vitor's armbar was very close, but I wouldn't think that Hendo will be threatening Jones off of his back at all.

I see a Hendo fight going down pretty much the way this fight went. Jones could put Hendo on his back and elbow his face up for 2 or 3 rounds until Hendo can take no more and gives up a sub.

Still, Hendo has earned a shot more than anyone else atm. I say let Dan get his shot and buy some time for other challengers to emerge (maybe Machida, Shogun, Gus, Texeria etc have one or two more wins by then).


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

Thelegend said:


> henderson and then a bit after that a rematch with machida then *maybe give glover a shot at the strap.*


Okay how does Glover get the kind of support that he has on these forums? He has literally one fight in the UFC. An impressive fight but it was against Kyle Kingsbury.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

deadmanshand said:


> Okay how does Glover get the kind of support that he has on these forums? He has literally one fight in the UFC. An impressive fight but it was against Kyle Kingsbury.


Jones has destroyed the usual suspects and I believe everyone is just running to grasp at straws trying to look for somebody with a chance of beating him. Really Glover likely has as good a chance as any.


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## 420atalon (Sep 13, 2008)

I just hope that we some day get to see Anderson Silva put Jones in his place.


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## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

Vinny Magalhaes.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

420atalon said:


> I just hope that we some day get to see Anderson Silva put Jones in his place.


I am far from convinced he could do it. Lets be honest neither Anderson or GSP have ran over fighters as respected as the ones Jones has.


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## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

Toxic said:


> I am far from convinced he could do it. Lets be honest neither Anderson or GSP have ran over fighters as respected as the ones Jones has.


I'd like to see GSP stop a tomato can at this stage.


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## mo25 (Feb 7, 2011)

It'll be Machida or Sonnen who dethrone Jones.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Toxic said:


> I am far from convinced he could do it. Lets be honest neither Anderson or GSP have ran over fighters as respected as the ones Jones has.


Would you bet against "The Spider" though. After watching the Gracie breakdown for UFC 152 I have a much better understanding of what went down and one of the points they mentioned was how well Anderson evaded shots on the ground especially in the 1st round of the rematch against Chael and even when he got mounted by Travis. He's always calm and composed. 

The only comparison we have is Vitor Belfort. Vitor almost finished the fight and it took the LHW title holder four rounds to finish. Anderson of course took care of business within the first. I believe it may very well happen in 2014 as Anderson's retirement fight.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

No_Mercy said:


> Would you bet against "The Spider" though. After watching the Gracie breakdown for UFC 152 I have a much better understanding of what went down and one of the points they mentioned was how well Anderson evaded shots on the ground especially in the 1st round of the rematch against Chael and even when he got mounted by Travis. He's always calm and composed.
> 
> The only comparison we have is Vitor Belfort. Vitor almost finished the fight and it took the LHW title holder four rounds to finish. Anderson of course took care of business within the first. I believe it may very well happen in 2014 as Anderson's retirement fight.


If Anderson wants to beat Jones he better fight him now, not in two years.

Vitor did Jon a favor, yes Vitor almost got him but Jon got a reminder he's not unbeatable and he's not super human, he's probably gonna spend a ton of time working on his ju-jitsu now and in two years who knows where he'll be, who knows where Anderson will be, he'd be 40 wouldn't he? Anderson's good but as we've seen, everyone loses it at some point, it happened to Chuck, Hughes, Wand, Fedor, Cro Cop, and many others.

Doesn't exactly sound ideal for Anderson, fighting a guy like Jones at 40.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Toxic said:


> I am far from convinced he could do it. Lets be honest neither Anderson or GSP have ran over fighters as respected as the ones Jones has.


I see your point because LHW has more NAMES. But I can't stand this argument.

So ANderson goes up to 205 and straight CLOWNS Forrest a former champ. Forrest who beat SHogun and Rampage. Wins he gets little credit for.

Fast Forward a couple years. Jones beats Shogun and Rampage who are even at an older age. And he gets all the credit in teh world for those wins?

Explain it to me.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Bones goes 4 rounds and almost gets sub'd by a 185er with a supposed bum hand. 

Anderson KTFO of that same fighter in a couple minutes. 

Anderson beats SOnnen twice. 

Bones turns down a fight with 185lb Sonnen who has hardly been training.

The logic against any of this is bogus. But people will spin it every which way.


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## edlavis88 (Jul 12, 2009)

Jones has 2 fights lined up with Hendo/Machida winner and gustafsson/Rua winner.
Bones has to fight before that though. Someone without a fight - Mousassi or Fejao could come over and fill the gap.

Now is the perfect time for the UFC to run an official tournament get 4 guys just down the rankings - Glover, Lil Nog, Jimmo and Te Huna for example and have them fight it out for a shot. Then the winner would be deserving as they'd have a streak and have 2 solid wins to earn it. Could work with 8 guys too if the get the.shedule together quickly.


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## osmium (Mar 6, 2007)

Toxic said:


> I am far from convinced he could do it. Lets be honest neither Anderson or GSP have ran over fighters as respected as the ones Jones has.


The Machida and Rashad wins were the only ones I was super impressed by and I think Anderson would trash Rashad way worse and KTFO of Machida if he fought him seriously. In fact it kind of seems like Rashad is too shook to fight Andy and he had no problem going against Bones.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

osmium said:


> The Machida and Rashad wins were the only ones I was super impressed by and I think Anderson would trash Rashad way worse and KTFO of Machida if he fought him seriously. In fact it kind of seems like Rashad is too shook to fight Andy and he had no problem going against Bones.


 I agree with this.

Rashad kidded around about 185. He was never serious. He could easily make 185 and doesn't look like he can beat Bones. But he isn't going down. 

Perhaps he just doesn't want to feel like Jones ran him out of the division. But if he felt like he would beat Anderson I am sure he would go down to do that fight. Beating the best of all time would be huge. But he probably wants no part of that.


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## LL (Mar 12, 2011)

edlavis88 said:


> Jones has 2 fights lined up with Hendo/Machida winner and gustafsson/Rua winner.
> Bones has to fight before that though. Someone without a fight - Mousassi or Fejao could come over and fill the gap.
> 
> Now is the perfect time for the UFC to run an official tournament get 4 guys just down the rankings - Glover, Lil Nog, Jimmo and Te Huna for example and have them fight it out for a shot. Then the winner would be deserving as they'd have a streak and have 2 solid wins to earn it. Could work with 8 guys too if the get the.shedule together quickly.


Feijao is suspended and Mousasi had ACL surgery.

Glover is still unproven, and will remain unproven regardless of how badly he trashes Maldanado, Jimmo, Lil' Nog, and Te-Huna have nothing to offer the Rashad, Machida, and Shogun's of the division.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I think the key question between Jones and Anderson's compititon, is who hasn't Anderson faced?

Say Anderson fights Weidman and smashes him quickly, Weidman then dissappears from the elite ranks and he's just another name with an L. Anderson has faught EVERY opponent worthy at MW, and smashed every one (except Sonnen, but he redeemed that). Jones has better opponents, but LHW has better opposition.

I understand why someone might rank Jones above based on that, but it's the performances and skill set shown that makes AS the greatest of all time.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

No_Mercy said:


> Would you bet against "The Spider" though. After watching the Gracie breakdown for UFC 152 I have a much better understanding of what went down and one of the points they mentioned was how well Anderson evaded shots on the ground especially in the 1st round of the rematch against Chael and even when he got mounted by Travis. He's always calm and composed.
> 
> The only comparison we have is Vitor Belfort. Vitor almost finished the fight and it took the LHW title holder four rounds to finish. Anderson of course took care of business within the first. I believe it may very well happen in 2014 as Anderson's retirement fight.


I see the argument that can be made for Silva off his back but I will be honest I rarely a fan of any gameplan that involves you being on your back and that is where I think Jones could easily put Silva. I am also not convinced Anderson is any better on the ground than Vitor is.(His longer legs should help with some stuff though.


jonnyg4508 said:


> I see your point because LHW has more NAMES. But I can't stand this argument.
> 
> So ANderson goes up to 205 and straight CLOWNS Forrest a former champ. Forrest who beat SHogun and Rampage. Wins he gets little credit for.
> 
> ...


Anderson gets no credit for clowning Forrest? I think that is one of his greatest performances but there are some people who underrate Forrest so your point has some merit there. That said , Jones has ran through Marquee names like Rashad, Shogun, Machida, Rampage and now Vitor. 
Anderson has his 4 to in Franklin, Henderson, Vitor and Forrest but the list somehow looks less impressive. The thing is that with the expception of Henderson (who I don't think ever looked all that good at MW) the fighters Jones fought have been more consistently performing at the top of the division. Rashad beat Forrest for the title but Forrest dropped way the hell off the radar after that. Franklin went to LHW with mixed results. And we can ignore Vitor because the argument goes two ways.


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## vilify (Mar 23, 2010)

I think a Forest griffin fight would sell and he's due for a title shot. He deserves the opportunity to reclaim his strap.


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## rebonecrusher (Nov 21, 2011)

ATM the only interesting opponents for Jones would be Gustaffson and Henderson. If he took on Rua or Machida again I'd expect a similar outcome. Texiera possibly if he gets a little run going and beats some quality opponents may be another guy to challenge Jones but I haven't seen anything out of him to prove he is at the level of other fighters who Jones has defeated.


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## ptw (Aug 13, 2009)

So apparently Machida is fighting Hendo, so winner of that will likely get Jones.

If Gustaffson beats Rua, then winner of that can get Jones as well. 

LHW isn't looking too bad after this Vitor fight. Honestly sucks for Vitor though when you really think about it, I feel like his stock dropped big time. He lost to AS in the MW division, now to Bones in the LHW division.


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## Old school fan (Aug 24, 2011)

Well, since Hendo isn't fighting anytime soon, I'd love to see Chael fight Jones, watching Sonnen bleed like Vitor and Machida did would be good fun!


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Toxic said:


> Anderson gets no credit for clowning Forrest? I think that is one of his greatest performances but there are some people who underrate Forrest so your point has some merit there. That said , Jones has ran through Marquee names like Rashad, Shogun, Machida, Rampage and now Vitor.
> Anderson has his 4 to in Franklin, Henderson, Vitor and Forrest but the list somehow looks less impressive. The thing is that with the expception of Henderson (who I don't think ever looked all that good at MW) the fighters Jones fought have been more consistently performing at the top of the division. Rashad beat Forrest for the title but Forrest dropped way the hell off the radar after that. Franklin went to LHW with mixed results. And we can ignore Vitor because the argument goes two ways.


I didn't say Anderson got no credit. Although many people say "oh the 205ers he has fought have been easy fights".

I said Forrest got little credit for beating Shogun and Rampage. But Jones who is a physical beast and in his physical prime beat an even older Page and Shogun...yet everyone counts those as "elite" wins. When Forrest beat those guys it was luck, or they weren't 100%. 

Anderson clowned a 205er who has some of the very wins Jones has. That is my point. So to say Jones has so many more quality wins isn't correct. Forrest beat Page when he was LHW champ. Jones beat Page who later on lost to Ryan Bader and is basically on the brink of retirement. 

I agree with you, 205 has bigger names. But this "better wins" argument is exaggerated. 205 has always been the most popular division. Their popularity makes the whole division overrated because people are hanging onto names of yesturday. 

He has beat the "bigger" names because 205 is filled with big name fighters. Doesn't mean old ass slow Rampage is a better win than an Okami or Franklin win. Okami was a top 3 MW for years on years. Sonnen dominated like 3 top 5 MWs in a row before Anderson beat him. Guys at 205 get gift title shots and make a living off their name. Shogun was just in trouble vs. Brandon Vera. A man who isn't even a top 15 LHW. Yet that was so much better of a win than say Hendo or Vitor at 185 for ANderson.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

ptw said:


> So apparently Machida is fighting Hendo, so winner of that will likely get Jones.
> 
> If Gustaffson beats Rua, then winner of that can get Jones as well.
> 
> LHW isn't looking too bad after this Vitor fight. Honestly sucks for Vitor though when you really think about it, I feel like his stock dropped big time. He lost to AS in the MW division, now to Bones in the LHW division.


That is odd. I was thinking Vitor's stock was on the up.

He has had like 3 KO wins in a row. Took a fight with the 205 champ on short notice and went on to give him the most trouble of any fighter....when no one gave him a shot.

I think Vitor's stock is way up and he should get a lot of good fights at 205. Hendo,Tex, Shogun are all interesting fights to me.


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## Steroid Steve (Oct 1, 2010)

jonnyg4508 said:


> Bones goes 4 rounds and almost gets sub'd by a 185er with a supposed bum hand.
> 
> Anderson KTFO of that same fighter in a couple minutes.
> 
> ...


Styles makes fights.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Steroid Steve said:


> Styles makes fights.


They sure do. Doesn't change the fact that Vitor had Bones in a deep armbar and really didn't get lit up standing. More or less was taken down by the biggest 205er and killed with elbows. Anderson put Vitor out cold in the first. And Vitor is actually in his weight class.

JDS could take 4 rounds to finish Vitor. And you could say styles make fights. Doesn't change the fact that JDS should finish him sooner and not be in danger of getting finished.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Anderson is more impressive in his fights than Jones. I think that's the difference. Jones has beat a slightly higher level of opponents, but he shows a lot less in his skillset than AS does. Anderson has shown time and time again literally EVERY aspect of stand up and clinch fighting. He's shown a decent BJJ game and in his last fight he showed good control from the bottom. He finishes fights probably better than anyone else in the UFC too, proved by ending each opponent with pin point GnP once they are hurt.

Jones has shown great uses of his reach and unpredictable attacks. He hasn't really used much head movement, and his whole style is towards the reach advantage. His takedowns are pretty good and he has very good GnP, but he seems slightly open to submissions. He can finish a fight with submissions but more as a way to FINISH instead of creating the oppertunity. He hasn't really made many submission oppertunities so his BJJ (or whatever it is when youre not brazillian haha) game hasnt really been displayed.

I think Jones might become the best if he continues forward and has some more tests to overcome. The fact that he has had only a few tests is down to his opponents rather than his dominance. Vitor showed that there has always been a slight chance of a submission, and Machida showed some very slight holes in his stand up, but no one else has tried anything different than generic striking or takedowns. No one mixed it up against him, and no matter how great the fighter, mixing it up (even if unsuccessful in attempts) will show their defence or adaptability and no ones really tried anything against Jones to make him show that. 

In the future we might see different, but for now I class Anderson Silva's fights as more impressive than Jones'.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> They sure do. Doesn't change the fact that Vitor had Bones in a deep armbar and really didn't get lit up standing. More or less was taken down by the biggest 205er and killed with elbows. Anderson put Vitor out cold in the first. And Vitor is actually in his weight class.
> 
> JDS could take 4 rounds to finish Vitor. And you could say styles make fights. Doesn't change the fact that JDS should finish him sooner and not be in danger of getting finished.


Jones finishes guys, but isn't a FINISHER. He isn't a one shot KO guy like JDS or AS. He punishes opponents with striking from the outside or dangerous elbows on the ground. He doesnt posture up and go for huge haymakers, but more so the Chael Sonnen style of ground and pound to break his opponent up. Chris Leben finished Wanderlei quickly, but that doesnt mean that he was more impressive than Franklin was, it's just that his style warrents a quick KO.

Everyone in this thread is using too much MMA math.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

I think Anderson's BJJ is better than average. I think it is quite underrated. It never comes out because he is rarely on the ground. He never tries to take anyone down. But subbing a VERY LEGIT BB in Lutter is 1 thing. Subbing Hendo who has only been sub'd by the Nog's is another thing. And subbing a man who beat on him for 4.5 rounds is yet another thing. His BJJ is 1 notch below elite. 

It isn't MMA math. I am simply saying Jones shouldn't get a lot of credit for beating the same guys that Forrest did and got little credit for. 

I also simply said Anderson Ko'd Belfort in teh first. Jones as the much bigger and younger fighter almost was finished and went 4 rounds. Perhaps it is "math". But it is FACT that Anderson beat Vitor 10x more impressively. 

Anderson is beating top 5 MWs by finish being the older fighter in just about all of them. Being slightly bigger than most. 

Jones is beating top 5 LHWs as the biggest guy in the division. Being the younger fighter by almost a decade in a lot of them. And he isn't nearly as dominant. 

Anderson has beat just as many top 5 MWs as Jones has beat top 5 LHWs. Plus he has what? Over twice the defenses? I'm not saying Anderson has had harder opponents. I am just saying I don't know how anyone can say Jones has beat the better fighters.

He has beat the bigger names. But seems like bigger names means better fighters in some peoples eyes.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

While Anderson stopped a younger Hendo and Vitor at their proper weight, Jones is now fighting these 185ers as the 205 champ. 

Anderson has already been there and done that with some of these "defenses" for Jones. Jones is getting Anderson's recycled wins. Hendo is next for Jones. Anderson already tapped that ass. 205 is filled with a bunch of 185ers who don't care to cut weight. Or are too old too cut weight as in Hendo's case.


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## Gustafsson Fan (Apr 3, 2012)

In order to beat Jon Jones you need to have footwork and striking.

Both Machida and Gustafsson have great footwork and striking. I think Gustafsson has the best chance and here is why.

- He is taller than Jones which means he wont have to punch upwards. Furthermore this means he could be able to use his great uppercut if in clinch.

- He is probably the first fighter who can out range Jones in kicks. This could mean that he force Jones to go forward and Gus has great footwork with his punches. He can counter punch Jones while moving backwards.

- He is the first fighter who can out jab Jones despite minor disadvantage in range I think Gus has the best accuracy and can outland Jones

Question marks: 
- Gus TDD will it be good enough to make the fight mostly standing ?

- Will Gus with his taller upper body be able to avoid the classic Jones elbows that cut almost every of his opponents on the ground ?

- Is Gus going to use the correct risk taking in such a fight i.e. Will be be varying his striking wihout being over cautious about being taken down ?

- How will Jones striking skills work in a fight where his opponent has quick legs and good range ? When he faces short opponent he can pretty much take turns. What I mean is, he can fire his shots before opponent and then just focus on moving his body away from any opponent strikes. What happens if he has to punch and avoid simultaneously. Compare Jones striking to Junior Dos Santos or Andersson Silva and you should realise Jones is miles away. Jones striking is great when he can use his range, otherwise I think it is just "good".


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

I'm a Gustaf fan. 

Perhaps he could out-jab Jones.

But not because he barely gives up length. While he is 6'5, he is still giving up around 9 inches of reach. So I really don't see how he matches Bones' reach or comes even close?

If that fight happens I see Gustaf getting slammed down and not having nearly enough BJJ to pull something off. Hopefully he can frustrate him enough with footwork.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Gus is the closest to actually earning a shot. But realistically the dude gets out-grappled all day. Glover Texeira and maybe Te-Huna or opponents that I think are a bit more interesting.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

I don't think Gustaf will do that great either. He is just going to get taken down and beaten up whenever Jones gets tired of standing.


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## Gustafsson Fan (Apr 3, 2012)

Concerning Gustafsson vs Jones, the difference is that vs slower/damaged/smaller/tired opponents Jones csn take breaks in the stand up to build up energy. Against Gustafsson he cannot because Gustafsson has the size to always be there in front threaten with either kicks or punches. Unless Gus is badly hurt he will be able to push Jones stamina. At that stage worrying about takedowns is not as big a factor because takedown uses up energy as well.

The key for Gus in this fight is not being badly cut or badly beaten up on the ground in the first 2 rounds.


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## SM33 (Sep 22, 2009)

I think Gustaf is a bad fight for Jon, he's not going to sit back/charge in relying on one big shot like every one of Jones' Championship opponents so far have.

He will feint, he won't tire, he has the size, movement and skill to counter Jon's long range strikes and punish him. He'll move in and out and Jon won't tie him up as easily as usual when he's getting tagged.

A big factor is the youth. Alexander is the young gun that Jon once was, and he's just as hungry. Gustaf is physically, mentally and technically a very different beast to Jon's last five opponents, I like his chances.


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## Gustafsson Fan (Apr 3, 2012)

Exactly. He has that Ingermar Johansson style with quick one-two like vs Floyd Patterson "boboom". No one so far has been able to stand up for long without being hit by those lightning punches.

A quick mobile striker with long range must be the nightmare for anyone to sparr with. I heard Gus had problems getting sparring partners a while back because he was beating the shit out of guys.

I do not have the exact statistics but in just 7 fights he has at leist 3 one-punch-knockdowns. I remember them vs Jared Hamman, Vladimir Matyushenko and Thiago Silva. I do not know for the Diabate, Hamill, Te Huna fights whether he had any one-punchers there as well or if all of them wre due to accumulation.

That is quite a stunning stat. He is able to hit guys with shots they do not see coming.


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## HitOrGetHit (Jun 29, 2009)

Gustaf will be taken down easily by JBJ.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I think Anderson's BJJ is better than average. I think it is quite underrated. It never comes out because he is rarely on the ground. He never tries to take anyone down. But subbing a VERY LEGIT BB in Lutter is 1 thing. Subbing Hendo who has only been sub'd by the Nog's is another thing. And subbing a man who beat on him for 4.5 rounds is yet another thing. His BJJ is 1 notch below elite.
> 
> *He rocked Hendo and finished him with an RNC. Thats kind of a day 1 jj lesson. Chael Sonnen has some of the worst submission defence in the UFC, and will be subbed every single time he fights a BJJ fighter...easily. Lutter was so gassed in the second round that Anderson literally did whatever he felt like doing.*
> 
> ...


Replied. I agree with your conclusion in Anderson Silva having the better overall record, but not how you come about it.


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## Toxic (Mar 1, 2007)

jonnyg4508 said:


> I think Anderson's BJJ is better than average. I think it is quite underrated. It never comes out because he is rarely on the ground. He never tries to take anyone down. But subbing a VERY LEGIT BB in Lutter is 1 thing. Subbing Hendo who has only been sub'd by the Nog's is another thing. And subbing a man who beat on him for 4.5 rounds is yet another thing. His BJJ is 1 notch below elite.


I really don't know how Anderson's BJJ stacks up to the best, his build is really suited to be deadly off his back and he has shown good dexterity off his back at the least. BUT, none of his 3 submission wins are awe inspiring. Lutter was owning the grappling till his fat lazy ass ran out of gas because that is what Travis Lutter does. Hendo? Hendo got dropped hard, Anderson Silva knocked Hendo senseless the submission was a mere formality. Chael? Likely the most impressive of the 3 IMO due to the fact that Silva had been getting owned and it takes a lot of composure and endurance to pull something like that out your ass. He also showed the dexterity I talked about earlier here. Thing is its still Chael who has a reputation of getting subbed and even further he has a history of choking when its all on the line and getting caught, he did it in both his UFC debuts, did it against Fihlo for the WEC title, and he did it against Anderson the first time. Like I said I am not sure what to think of Anderson's ground game thus far, he is definitely solid but I am not running out to call him just short of elite grappling yet.


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## limba (Jul 21, 2009)

Bonnar.....after he beats Silva.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Replied. I agree with your conclusion in Anderson Silva having the better overall record, but not how you come about it.


He rocked Hendo but Hendo wasn't that hurt. He could defend and Anderson took his back and finished. 

Sonnen's BJJ sucks. That doesn't change what I said... He took 4.5 rounds punches and stayed in there and pulled off a miracle sub while both men were full of sweat and blood.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

Toxic said:


> I really don't know how Anderson's BJJ stacks up to the best, his build is really suited to be deadly off his back and he has shown good dexterity off his back at the least. BUT, none of his 3 submission wins are awe inspiring. Lutter was owning the grappling till his fat lazy ass ran out of gas because that is what Travis Lutter does. Hendo? Hendo got dropped hard, Anderson Silva knocked Hendo senseless the submission was a mere formality. Chael? Likely the most impressive of the 3 IMO due to the fact that Silva had been getting owned and it takes a lot of composure and endurance to pull something like that out your ass. He also showed the dexterity I talked about earlier here. Thing is its still Chael who has a reputation of getting subbed and even further he has a history of choking when its all on the line and getting caught, he did it in both his UFC debuts, did it against Fihlo for the WEC title, and he did it against Anderson the first time. Like I said I am not sure what to think of Anderson's ground game thus far, he is definitely solid but I am not running out to call him just short of elite grappling yet.


Take it for what it is. Is he in there pulling off kneebars and D'Arce chokes? No. 

But the couple times he went up against guys who wanted it on the ground he came away with sub victories. He is basically batting 1.000% in the UFC when the fight is on the floor he has sub'd his opponent. 

Everyone can have an excuse for why something isn't impressive, but fact is he has won when he has had to with his BJJ. He rarely has to, but when he is put in that situation he always comes thru.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

He should have pulled off that "miracle sub" in the first round. Anderson looked a lot better in the second fight as he stifled a lot of Sonnen's work, but Anderson isn't really dangerous off of his back. It's that he doesnt really attack. When you watch say for example Demian Maia, when he's on his back, the legs are up constantly, the hips are shifting, he's looking for something. Anderson doesnt really do that as much so thats where I see his BJJ game to be average. He has the same submission skills as a wrestler does. They can pull off arm triangles and americanas, and he can pull off a triangle or two.


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## jonnyg4508 (Jan 30, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> He should have pulled off that "miracle sub" in the first round. Anderson looked a lot better in the second fight as he stifled a lot of Sonnen's work, but Anderson isn't really dangerous off of his back. It's that he doesnt really attack. When you watch say for example Demian Maia, when he's on his back, the legs are up constantly, the hips are shifting, he's looking for something. Anderson doesnt really do that as much so thats where I see his BJJ game to be average. He has the same submission skills as a wrestler does. They can pull off arm triangles and americanas, and he can pull off a triangle or two.


He should of pull off a miracle sub in the 1st? Why? Is it that easy?

If you read what I said, I said underrated. I said a notch below elite. So why are you comparing Maia to Anderson? When I am not saying Anderson has Maia level BJJ?

He doesn't do something right away so he must be average in BJJ. That has to be one of the dumber things I have heard recently. So the fact that he ended up subbing pretty much anyone he has had too doesn't matter. The fact that he waits and then attacks means he isn't a great BJJ fighter.

oooooooook....

He tries to tie guys up because he is damn good at that. And if you knew ANYTHING about BJJ you would understand that is basically rule 1. Protecting yourself from your back. He is trying to get a stand up to where he is one of the best of all time standing. Control from bottom is PART of BJJ. 

His true BJJ skills hardly ever come out because he is the best striker in the UFC. 

I never said he was Maia level, I can't help your reading comprehension.


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## No_Mercy (Oct 17, 2006)

Anderson Silva vs Bonnar
Anderson Silva vs Bisping
Anderson Silva vs Weidman/Belcher
MW divison DONE!

Anderson Silva vs GSP
Anderson Silva vs the LHW title holder. 

Anderson Silva retires as the UNDISPUTED ALL TIME GREATEST P4P CHAMPION WHO EVER LIVED.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

jonnyg4508 said:


> He should of pull off a miracle sub in the 1st? Why? Is it that easy?
> 
> If you read what I said, I said underrated. I said a notch below elite. So why are you comparing Maia to Anderson? When I am not saying Anderson has Maia level BJJ?
> 
> ...


Again, you are a strong follower in MMA math. Okay, he has subbed the guys that took him down, but why?

Lutter:- Gassed like shit. Easy submission for anyone.
Hendo Rocked him and had a routine finish.
Sonnen:- One of the worst sub defences in UFC.

He should have subbed Sonnen earlier because Forrest and Horn did it, easily. He didnt even try for it, and he didnt have any attempts to tie Chael up or anything. He just lay on his back, trying to get up, and Sonnen was going to work. It took his 4 and a half rounds to even attempt a submission, while guys like Griffin and Horn locks in the same thing in the first round.

I know tieing up is a BJJ thing, but I said he only showed skill in that area in his last fight. Agaisnt Lutter, Hendo and Sonnen 1 he had NO skills in that area, and allowed them to pass or go to work.

I compaired him to Maia cause I'm showing you the difference between Anderson and an elite level BJJ fighter, and the sharp contrast. Anderson barley looks for the submission. If Hendo, Sonnen or Lutter are on the top position over Maia, you'll see his hips shifting, his legs high and displaying every BJJ teaching. Anderson doesnt do these things. With the exception of Sonnen 2, he layed still and the only thing on his mind was standing back up. He didn't have any attempt to attack from the bottom position. Lutter basically handed the submission and Sonnen was caught which isn't a difficult task for anyone with a basic submission knowledge.

Anderson is alright, and you better not underestimate his BJJ game, but at the end of the day if you have a good submission defence then you won't really have to worry about his submissions. You'll have to worry about taking him down, because AS is the greatest of all time and getting that range is no easy task.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

SM33 said:


> I think Gustaf is a bad fight for Jon, he's not going to sit back/charge in relying on one big shot like every one of Jones' Championship opponents so far have.
> 
> He will feint, he won't tire, he has the size, movement and skill to counter Jon's long range strikes and punish him. He'll move in and out and Jon won't tie him up as easily as usual when he's getting tagged.
> 
> *A big factor is the youth. Alexander is the young gun that Jon once was*, and he's just as hungry. Gustaf is physically, mentally and technically a very different beast to Jon's last five opponents, I like his chances.


The older Alexander Gustaffson, you mean?


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

^Lmao, I never noticed that. Dudes speaking like a 24 year old is over the hill hahaha.

Gus and Weidman are the two most overrated UFC fighters right now to me.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Again, you are a strong follower in MMA math. Okay, he has subbed the guys that took him down, but why?
> 
> Lutter:- Gassed like shit. Easy submission for anyone.
> Hendo Rocked him and had a routine finish.
> ...


He didn't really try to get up, nor did he really try to submit Sonnen in the first rounds. That's something which should make you wonder. You're asking the wrong question if you try to use this as evidence of the quality of Silva's BJJ. Silva was quite comfortable on his back. What he DID show is that it's not fun having Anderson Silva on his back below you as he can rough your face up more from his back with a couple of elbow strikes than Chael Sonnen can do from top position with over 300 strikes.

He doesn't unnecessarily expend energy and "tries" submissions as many other fighters. He knows pretty exactly WHEN to use WHAT technique, so he also knows when to go for a submission. And as soon as he goes for the submission, he gets it. 



> I know tieing up is a BJJ thing, but I said he only showed skill in that area in his last fight. Agaisnt Lutter, Hendo and Sonnen 1 he had NO skills in that area, and allowed them to pass or go to work.
> 
> I compaired him to Maia cause I'm showing you the difference between Anderson and an elite level BJJ fighter, and the sharp contrast. Anderson barley looks for the submission. If Hendo, Sonnen or Lutter are on the top position over Maia, *you'll see his hips shifting, his legs high and displaying every BJJ teaching. Anderson doesnt do these things.* With the exception of Sonnen 2, he layed still and the only thing on his mind was standing back up. He didn't have any attempt to attack from the bottom position. Lutter basically handed the submission and Sonnen was caught which isn't a difficult task for anyone with a basic submission knowledge.


By that logic Anderson Silva wouldn't be a great striker either, because as a good striker you learn to have both your hands protecting your head and not hanging at your waist, you learn that front kicks to the face don't work against elite opponents (in particular not against elite strikers) and that reverse elbows are rather techniques to be shown in fictional martial arts movies than to be used in real combat. 

You have to see the whole fighter. Anderson Silva doesn't do what you're normally supposed to do as a fighter - in any area! He doesn't fight like you're supposed to, he fights to prove points (that all those things he does, which are supposed to not work in real combat, actually DO work). 



> Anderson is alright, and you better not underestimate his BJJ game, but at the end of the day if you have a good submission defence then you won't really have to worry about his submissions. You'll have to worry about taking him down, because AS is the greatest of all time and getting that range is no easy task.


You have to worry what kind of point he wants to prove in his next fight. He rarely uses the same technique twice to finish a fight. 

As I've repeatedly written:

Silva has had more different ways to win his fights, than people like former HW champ Cain Velasquez have fights altogether.

He has wins via

(T)KO - Punches (combinations)
(T)KO - single Jab while walking backwards
(T)KO - Kicks
KO - flying knee & punches
KO - knees from the clinch
KO - reverse elbow
KO - front kick & punches
Sub - Punches
Sub - Elbows
Sub - rear naked choke
Sub - triangle/armbar
+ Decisions

It just looks like he is trying to prove that any technique that has ever been invented in martial arts can be used to end and win a fight.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Voiceless said:


> He didn't really try to get up, nor did he really try to submit Sonnen in the first rounds. That's something which should make you wonder. You're asking the wrong question if you try to use this as evidence of the quality of Silva's BJJ. Silva was quite comfortable on his back. What he DID show is that it's not fun having Anderson Silva on his back below you as he can rough your face up more from his back with a couple of elbow strikes than Chael Sonnen can do from top position with over 300 strikes.
> 
> *Sonnen did MUCH more damage than Anderson did. Anderson wasn't comfortable, he was taking truck loads of punishment (which is understandable because Sonnen is a beast on the ground). When you look at Horn or Forrest, they were on the bottom and took no damage because they pulled off the obvious triangle as soon as possible.*
> 
> ...


Smh, I actually am getting a slight understanding as to why people dislike Anderson. To me, he's the GOAT easily, the best stand up fighter in history and my personal #3 all time. But at the end of the day you guys are filling blanks of his skills and getting offended when I point them out. He hasn't proven that he is a great BJJ fighter. You seem to be the guys that actually believed the "Anderson Silva was just toying with Sonnen in the first fight" thread. If Anderson was a better ground fighter, he'd have easily subbed Sonnen. It doesnt come to him, he's thinking of standing back up and doing what he does best. He's not looking for submissions. He doesnt "only go for them when he can". By your same stupid analogy, it's like saying "He only punches when it's a knockout". Submissions dont always work, like punches, but you go for them because at the very least it puts fear into your opponents ground and pound.


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## trimco (Feb 4, 2011)

No_Mercy said:


> Anderson Silva vs Bonnar
> Anderson Silva vs Bisping
> Anderson Silva vs Weidman/Belcher
> MW divison DONE!
> ...


I like this.

edit: Add in Heavyweight just for laughs.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Who should Jones be fighting next? Let's skip all the BS and get on with the show...

1. Hendo
2. Silva

Then move up to HW

3. Cain
4. Overeem/JDS


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Hendo/Lyoto winner, then/or Shogun/Gustaffson winner...his best choices.


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## Hawndo (Aug 16, 2009)

LizaG said:


> Hendo/Lyoto winner, then/or Shogun/Gustaffson winner...his best choices.


If it was up to me it would be Gustaffson v Hendo for the shot. They are the only two guys I want to see fight him.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

call me crazy but I'd like to see Lyoto give it another try. But Hendo or Gustaffson would be cool. Don't wanna see Shogun/Jones so much. If Vera gave him a hell of a fight then Jones would crush Shogun all over again.


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## Voiceless (Nov 8, 2010)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Sonnen did MUCH more damage than Anderson did. Anderson wasn't comfortable, he was taking truck loads of punishment (which is understandable because Sonnen is a beast on the ground). When you look at Horn or Forrest, they were on the bottom and took no damage because they pulled off the obvious triangle as soon as possible.


If Sonnen was such a beast, why couldn't he put Silva away with his more than 300 punches¿



> Again, look at the situations. People keep using too much MMA math here. You look at it as he's submitted everyone who took him down. I look at it as he's submitted someone completley gassed, someone rocked, and someone with awful sub defence.


You take into account Lutter's supposedly complete gassing, but dismiss Silva's broken/cracked rib when pointing out that it took four rounds for Silva to submit Sonnen¿ That's double standard.

I've just rewatched the Lutter fight. In the first one and a half minutes basically nothing physically happens from both men, then it hits the ground and Lutter is on top, but can't do nothing. In the third minute it goes up for a second, but Lutter takes Silva down again immediately. In the forth minute Lutter is in side control then eventually gets full mount, but can't take advantage of it apart from some GnP, which doesn't effect Silva much. It wasn't really an exhausting round at all for Lutter. In the stand up there was no battle and on the ground he was in top position all the time with not that much happening either. The weight cut may have reduced his cardio a bit, but when the second round starts, Lutter looks quite composed and physically ok, nothing even close in the slightest to Carwin after the first round against Lesnar (where you find Carwin "completely gassed"). In that second round it almost immediately goes to the ground again with Lutter on top. After about 30 seconds into the round, Silva misses an upkick, but immediately redirects his legs to a triangle. The rest is only the fight till the tap.

I give you Henderson being rocked (which speaks more for Silva's striking) and Sonnen having not a good subdefense to not tell us that much about Silva's real level of BJJ, but in my book, the Lutter win is a legit submission. I think to contribute it mainly to Lutters bad cardio is a bit far streched.



> Completley irrelvent.


No, it's not. You're using double standards in argumentation again. You've used the argument that he doesn't use textbook movement in his BJJ to prove that his BJJ isn't that good. I've shown you that this argument doesn't tell us much about his BJJ, as he also doesn't use textbook striking. He's made it a habit to NOT fight according to the textbook.

And also, nobody claimed that his BJJ is on Maia level. It's probably not. But at least when he needed his BJJ, it always worked so far (in the UFC). That's more than someone like Palhares can say, and when was Maia's last submission win again¿.



> Smh, I actually am getting a slight understanding as to why people dislike Anderson. To me, he's the GOAT easily, the best stand up fighter in history and my personal #3 all time. But at the end of the day you guys are filling blanks of his skills and getting offended when I point them out.


I don't know who you're talking to. I'm not offended at all if you try to point out any gaps in Silva's game. He is not a personal friend of mine or something like that, nor am I a crazy fan. I mainly watch fights through the eyes of a long time martial artist to improve my own game. My opinion may not always be right, but I DO give you reasoned arguments which made me come to my conclusions.



> He hasn't proven that he is a great BJJ fighter. You seem to be the guys that actually believed the "Anderson Silva was just toying with Sonnen in the first fight" thread. If Anderson was a better ground fighter, he'd have easily subbed Sonnen. It doesnt come to him, he's thinking of standing back up and doing what he does best. He's not looking for submissions. He doesnt "only go for them when he can". By your same stupid analogy, it's like saying "He only punches when it's a knockout". Submissions dont always work, like punches, but you go for them because at the very least it puts fear into your opponents ground and pound.


No, that's a wrong analogy, because punches accumulate in damage, submission attemps don't, but they do expend energy. Rewatch the first Sonnen fight. You tell that because he's not moving his hips like Maia or doing this and that, he's not looking for submissions, but he's thinking all the time of standing back up. Then tell me without double standards how often he tries and how much effort he puts into wall walking to get up again, into sweeping Sonnen to reverse position (and from there to get up), rubber guarding or just clasping to Sonnen (like he did in the first round of the second fight) to make the referee stand them up. You will find some attemps, but very little over the span of 23 minutes with that "beast" Sonnen is supposed to be on top. It does NOT really look that much of Silva desperately trying to get back to his feet. Silva just rolled with Sonnen's punches most of the time to minimize damage, shouted at Sonnen to become more aggressive AND was striking himself from his back.


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## Rusty (Apr 13, 2010)

In terms of getting me to buy a ppv...
1.Sonnen, Just to hear him talk shit and I like him.
1.5.Silva or Fedor, so Jon can beat a true legend.
2.Gus, because I think he has the best chance to beat him at 205
3.Henderson, punchers chance and TDD. He doesn't mind taking a punch to give one either.
4.Griffin, I've thought he'd be a tough fight for Jon for a long time. Big guy, long reach, skinny guys fight til they're burger
5.Jake Shields, ******* hate that guy. Would love to see him with a broken cheek.
6.Glover, someone new at least.
7.Machida,Rashad,Page, Shogun, no thanks on any of these rematches.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

I'm with you Rusty, apart from Forrest/JBJ...love Forrest far too much to wanna see that much lol


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## Rastaman (Feb 25, 2010)

Henderson, it's the only person who he hasn't beat that is ranked near the top.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

Hendo and Gus...then he's cleaned out the division really.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

On topic-

Challengers are few and far between, Hendo, Gustaffson...maybe by that taime JBJ has gone through them (easier said than done) Glover would be ready for a shot.


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## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

Hendo, also Gustaffson, just to see Alex get KTFO. Glover maybe? We still don't really know much about Glover, could end up being a gatekeeper.

Sent from my HTC-X710a using VerticalSports.Com App


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

Voiceless said:


> If Sonnen was such a beast, why couldn't he put Silva away with his more than 300 punches¿
> 
> *Sonnen isn't a finisher. He's a beast in terms of his takedowns, his relentless GnP and his ability to keep you there.*
> 
> ...


Replied.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

I was coming in here to layeth the smack down but It appears that this thread is now back on track. Good job guys 

Im gonna clean up the last couple of pages though if that is ok with everyone?


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

LizaG said:


> call me crazy but I'd like to see Lyoto give it another try. But Hendo or Gustaffson would be cool. Don't wanna see Shogun/Jones so much. If Vera gave him a hell of a fight then Jones would crush Shogun all over again.


And if Mark Coleman gave Shogun a run for his money, then there is no way he ever comes close to touching Lyoto Machida. Remember that? No offense love, but those rule simply don't apply to a fighter like Shogun Rua. He's inconsistent, but on one of his best days, Shogun Rua is a dangerous threat towards any one in the LHW division, including Jon Jones.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I personally think that this time Machida finishs Shogun.


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## Killz (Oct 5, 2009)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I personally think that this time Machida finishs Shogun.


I'd be inclined to agree.

Shogun has looked sooooooo slow in his last few fights.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I personally think that this time Machida finishs Shogun.


You probably thought that in their last bout as well.

Shogun would KTFO Machida, again.


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## GlasgowKiss (Sep 18, 2010)

Machida would annihilate the Shogun we have seen since his return.


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

Just like Machida was going to annihilate Shogun back when he beat a washed up Chuck Liddell and struggled with Mark Coleman. He wasn't going to touch Machida. Except he did.

Shogun is an inconsistent fighter and is due a really solid performance right about now. If Machida/Shogun was booked, I'd bet money on Shogun knocking him out.

Looks bad against Brandon Vera, knocks out Lyoto Machida in his next match. Fans hype up Shogun to threaten Jones, fights Jones, looks terrible, gets destroyed, fans label Shogun as done, wins next high profile fight, fans label Shogun as back and healthy. Sounds about right.

I swear all that matters with MMA fans is some ones last fight, nothing else means any thing at all in this MMA universe.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

GrappleRetarded said:


> Shogun would KTFO Machida, again.


That about sums it up perfectly.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I seen Grapple say "Everyones acting like 'All that matters is your lost fight'".

Jon Jones:- Tapped from strikes.
Hendo:- Smashed until his opponent gassed.
Vera:- Horrible against mid card fighter.

Machida is coming off an awesome KO of Bader, who is miles ahead of Vera. After winning the title, Machida faught a different style. He was trying to make things more exciting by pushing forward. He changed it back up in the Bader fight and if he keeps fighting the way he used to, he easily stops Shogun with a counter punch to me.


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## Fieos (Mar 26, 2007)

I don't think Machida has an answer to the leg kicks yet.


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## Sports_Nerd (Apr 23, 2012)

Fieos said:


> I don't think Machida has an answer to the leg kicks yet.


He had the answer in the first round after the first couple of rounds. Move into them and punch.


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## Purgetheweak (Apr 23, 2012)

I don't think Machida takes damage that well, he looked lost after his head got cut open. Maybe he's afraid of his own blood? Plus, Jones most likely wouldn't waste time striking with Lyoto, he'd just take him down, blast him with an elbow, then submit him.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

I'm not sure how quick Jones will be to take someone down again, especially not a BJJ black belt. He will keep things standing to me. It can go two ways. If Machida is fully focused, he has a HUGE chance, but if he fights like he did last time Jones will alreayd have an answer and not spend a round to figure it out.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

Purgetheweak said:


> I don't think Machida takes damage that well, he looked lost after his head got cut open. Maybe he's afraid of his own blood? Plus, Jones most likely wouldn't waste time striking with Lyoto, he'd just take him down, blast him with an elbow, then submit him.


I think some people just enjoy paying to watch reruns expecting different results. Jones will easily **** up Machida again. Don't get me wrong, I like Machida but there is Jon Jones and then there's everyone else. And it's no small gap either.


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## RangerClydeTheBlue (Jul 11, 2012)

BOOM said:


> I think some people just enjoy paying to watch reruns expecting different results. Jones will easily **** up Machida again. Don't get me wrong, I like Machida but there is Jon Jones and then there's everyone else. And it's no small gap either.


Ignore list. Like yesterday you seemed to have a better view and had some good points, but you're just doing the rounds of every single thread and posting the most negative stuff possible. UFC is in it's prime and it's the largest growing sport in the world. To be honest, it's kind of a skill that you manage to take such a bleak outlook because things couldnt be better right this second.


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## John8204 (May 13, 2010)

LizaG said:


> On topic-
> 
> Challengers are few and far between, Hendo, Gustaffson...maybe by that taime JBJ has gone through them (easier said than done) Glover would be ready for a shot.


If *Stephan Bonnar* defeats Anderson Silva and shocks the world he's getting another crack at Jon Jones. The fact that everyone seems to have forgotten that Bonnar actually won a round and is the only man to come back from a Jones beating seems to be lost on people.

Dana feels like he "owes" *Chael Sonnen* so he's now in the mix. *Ryan Jimmo* and *Glover Teixeira* haven't lost fights since 2006/2007.

*Alexander Gustafsson* and *Dan Henderson* have both earned title shots, any person that argues otherwise is crazy. Alex has a fluke loss to Davis and that's it, and seeing how poorly Jones did against Vitor Belfort and BJJ imagine someone Jones own size going for Triangles. 

Personally I feel like Lyoto Machida got his title shot and gave it up to Vitor. If he wants to win two more fights and knock out a contender great but giving a guy a shot after a win is a gift.


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Ignore list. Like yesterday you seemed to have a better view and had some good points, but you're just doing the rounds of every single thread and posting the most negative stuff possible. UFC is in it's prime and it's the largest growing sport in the world. To be honest, it's kind of a skill that you manage to take such a bleak outlook because things couldnt be better right this second.


Interesting, you classify people that want to see Jones go up against someone that he hasn't destroyed yet as negative.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> Ignore list. Like yesterday you seemed to have a better view and had some good points, but you're just doing the rounds of every single thread and posting the most negative stuff possible. UFC is in it's prime and it's the largest growing sport in the world. To be honest, it's kind of a skill that you manage to take such a bleak outlook because things couldnt be better right this second.


lol you REALLY should've been online at 3 this morning!


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## GrappleRetarded (Jun 22, 2012)

ClydebankBlitz said:


> I seen Grapple say "Everyones acting like 'All that matters is your lost fight'".
> 
> Jon Jones:- Tapped from strikes.
> Hendo:- Smashed until his opponent gassed.
> ...


I like how you casually ignored Shoguns first round destruction of Forrest Griffin.

Let's look at Machida's last few performances:

Bader - solid win, impressive
Jon Jones - Violently choked into unconsciousness in the second round
Randy Couture - .........
Rampage - bad loss
Shogun - KO'd in the first round.

Other than the Bader win, Lyoto really hasn't looked impressive against top tier competition.

I don't think he's changed any thing about his style either. He was bull rushed by Shogun and got KO'd, and after the Jon Jones hell bows on the ground where he saw his own blood, he crumbled under the pressure.


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## deadmanshand (Apr 9, 2008)

I think Jones should get a rematch against the telephone pole. No alcohol this time. Just a champion against his wooden adversary in the rematch of the year.


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## LizaG (May 12, 2008)

if he keeps talking the way he has recently, all he'll have left around him is his 'wooden adversary'...

...yep! I went there!


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## BOOM (Sep 23, 2012)

deadmanshand said:


> I think Jones should get a rematch against the *telephone pole*. No alcohol this time. Just a champion against his wooden adversary in the rematch of the year.


I agree, Hendo should get the next fight.


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## mastodon2222 (Feb 4, 2010)

Toxic said:


> jones is obviously a beast and the low division is looking like a ghost town as far as legitimate threats. Who should be next?
> 
> 
> I will give my opinion because I think there isn't a single interesting rematch , and I don't see old Hendo having a snowballs chance in hell. The prospects are also not ready leaving the field IMO wise open for Jones to move up and test the hw waters against a mid tear fighter and none is stylistically a more interesting match up than Stevan Struce. The reach the nasty guard, i think it may be one of the most interesting possible fights.
> ...


Gotta be a HW.


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