# Why is Fedor regarded as P4P number 1?



## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Win Brett Rogers TKO (Punches)
Win Andrei Arlovski KO (Punch)
Win Tim Sylvia Submission (Rear-Naked Choke)
Win Hong Man Choi Submission (Armbar)
Win Matt Lindland Submission (Armbar)
Win Mark Hunt Submission (Kimura)
Win Mark Coleman Submission (Armbar)



Win Thiago Alves Decision (Unanimous)
Win B.J. Penn TKO (Corner Stoppage)
Win Jon Fitch Decision (Unanimous)
Win Matt Serra TKO (Knees to the Body)
Win Matt Hughes Verbal Submission (Armbar)
Win Josh Koscheck Decision (Unanimous)
Loss Matt Serra TKO (Punches)
Win Matt Hughes TKO (Head Kick and Punches)
Win B.J. Penn Decision (Split)


I like how you can see how shot Mark Coleman was.

Or how much of a freak show Hong was. Or that Lindland was a middleweight. And that AA had a glass chin, or that Sylvia had lost 2 of 3 BEFORE fighting Fraudor..and then you have his unyielding nuthuggers claiming that he ruined him.


Josh Koscheck....the FOURTH best name(and a damn good one at that) on GSP's resume in the last 3 years, is better than anyone Fraudor has fought in the last 3 years.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Lol bro. You're going to get a lot of justified flack for this post, then you're going to chalk it up to "gd fedor nuthuggerz!!11" and continue to hate Fedor even more. It's just going to be an endless cycle of you being confused and angry.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

honestly, he is only ranked number 1 p4p by extreme nuthuggers imo, GSP and Anderson Silva have clearly passed him in the last couple years and argueablely BJ Penn.

The flack you will recieve will be just like the one from posters above, just insults and neg reps with no real discussion just FEDOR IS GOD blah blah blah lets not actually look at who he fought or how weak the HW division was/is while GSP fights in the deepest division in the whole sport and owns like no other and Anderson is busy tooling ppl in two divisions.

Ill offer my fav Khov arguement... HWs are bigger, therefore they hit harder, therefore they are the best!!


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## CornbreadBB (Jul 31, 2008)

Well at least the horse is already dead so it's not so cruel.....


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## Trinity Killer (Dec 3, 2009)

*It's all a matter of opinion!*

P4P rankings are subjective to say the least. Realistically, the same argument can be and is often made for Anderson Silva,GSP, BJ Penn, etc. It really boils down to who was most dominant in their respective weight classes, and with Fedor's 31-1 record , he gets mentioned more often than not.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> Lol bro. You're going to get a lot of justified flack for this post, then you're going to chalk it up to "gd fedor nuthuggerz!!11" and continue to hate Fedor even more. It's just going to be an endless cycle of you being confused and angry.


The new age form of arguing.

Not saying anything valid at all. :thumbsdown:



alizio said:


> honestly, he is only ranked number 1 p4p by extreme nuthuggers imo, GSP and Anderson Silva have clearly passed him in the last couple years and argueablely BJ Penn.
> 
> The flack you will recieve will be just like the one from posters above, just insults and neg reps with no real discussion just FEDOR IS GOD blah blah blah lets not actually look at who he fought or how weak the HW division was/is while GSP fights in the deepest division in the whole sport and owns like no other and Anderson is busy tooling ppl in two divisions.
> 
> Ill offer my fav Khov arguement... HWs are bigger, therefore they hit harder, therefore they are the best!!


Exactly, he said nothing at all to dispute my argument. Nothing.



Trinity Killer said:


> P4P rankings are subjective to say the least. Realistically, the same argument can be and is often made for Anderson Silva,GSP, BJ Penn, etc. It really boils down to who was most dominant in their respective weight classes, and with Fedor's 31-1 record , he gets mentioned more often than not.



Of those 31, 5 were not heavyweights, and another 6 were not full time MMA fighters.(like..they were pro wrestlers with 6 fights, or kickboxers like Hunt, Schilt etc)

So that leaves 20-1. Impressive. Most were total cans however. That's pretty much indisputable. 

He has half the meaningful wins as GSP or Silva or Penn.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

*Nice triple post roflcopter.*

Anderson Silva is P4P the best fighter in the world.

GSP is right behind Silva, followed by BJ Penn.

This is coming from a Fedor Emelianenko fan. He is my favorite fighter, and he would easily beat anyone in his division. That does not make you the p4p best, however. 

One thing that seperates Fedor from GSP, Silva, and Penn, though, is that he has never been defeated. He lost due to doctor stoppage for a cut, but has never been finished or lost a decision. GSP, Silva, and BJ Penn have.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

*A loss is a loss*

besides Arona beat him in 2000 and i've never even heard a Fedor fan try and dispute it they just ignore the fight entirely. Either way a loss on his record is a loss, he isnt undefeated and neither is Jon Jones.

Cant go back in time and change a decision even if it was unfair in any sport. Aslong as there is a loss in that column you cant say somebody hasnt been defeated.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

lol, nothing easier than discrediting a fighter's wins. Name me one fighter and I could do the same thing you did with Fedor, with them. GSP?


Thiago Alves: Bahaha one dimensional fighter with overrated hands and TDD. He couldnt even finish Koscheck when Paulo frikkin Thiago KTFOd him with the 1st combo he landed! He got KTFO by Fitch, another over-rated WW who couldnt even finish Gono and Mike frikkin Pierce (who btw rocked him multiple times lulz)!!

BJ Penn: he's a damn LW!!! He's great at LW but has no gas tank at WW and let's not forget that GSP greaseeeeed for this fight!!

Jon Fitch: see above.

Matt Serra: lulz! He's a LW too! against whom GSP is 1-1 and got KTFO not too long ago bahaha!! Serra couldnt even beat well past his prime Matt Hughes, how is this a good win for GSP??

Hughes: He got rocked and chocked the hell out by a LW in BJ Penn!! He's washed up and got KTFO by Alves (another over-rated WW) and has been ducking the AKA guys for years!! He was very good in his time but was well past his prime when GSP beat him twice because in his prime, Hughes arm-barred him within a round LULZ!!!


So yeah, extremely easy and pointless imo.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Xerxes said:


> lol, nothing easier than discrediting a fighter's wins. Name me one fighter and I could do the same thing you did with Fedor, with them. GSP?
> 
> 
> Thiago Alves: Bahaha one dimensional fighter with overrated hands and TDD. He couldnt even finish Koscheck when Paulo frikkin Thiago KTFOd him with the 1st combo he landed! He got KTFO by Fitch, another over-rated WW who couldnt even finish Gono and Mike frikkin Pierce (who btw rocked him multiple times lulz)!!
> ...



Point taken. But nobody Fedor has fought recently is ranked (except Rogers, give that one fight and the hype is gone). How about those guys GSP has fought??

P4P isnt about history... it's about RIGHT NOW. It's a "what have you done for me lately" award and frankly, anybody comparing the last 3 years of Fedors inactivity and fighting very questionable ppl to GSPs fighting actively against guys that beat everybody else in the division..... seriously making a comparison?? It's not really even an arguement, it's in black and white.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Ftr I don't think Fedor is above GSP in the P4P rankings.

But yeah I think he's a top 3, top 5 at worst.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Xerxes said:


> Ftr I don't think Fedor is above GSP in the P4P rankings. But yeah, I think he's a top 3, top 5 at worst.


 ok, i agree with that. I have him at 5 and dropping like a stone, if his next two opponents are Werdum and Overeem i wont know wtf to do. I dont even know how Overeem is ranked :confused03: If he clears out strikefarce he may move up but if Silva, GSP and BJ keep doing what they are doing i dont see how and guys like Aldo and Machida have strong chances to face tougher competition on a more consistent basis that would surpass his recent showings aswell imo

The real problem i have is how can a guy be ranked number 1 when he is clearly in the weakest division in the sport??


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

There's also the Barnett match-up in Dream. Roided or not, Josh Barnett is a top 10 HW.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Xerxes said:


> lol, nothing easier than discrediting a fighter's wins. Name me one fighter and I could do the same thing you did with Fedor, with them. GSP?
> 
> 
> Thiago Alves: Bahaha one dimensional fighter with overrated hands and TDD. He couldnt even finish Koscheck when Paulo frikkin Thiago KTFOd him with the 1st combo he landed! He got KTFO by Fitch, another over-rated WW who couldnt even finish Gono and Mike frikkin Pierce (who btw rocked him multiple times lulz)!!
> ...


Except you are using childish and nonsensical points to do this, while points on Fedor are actually valid. I and anyone with half a brain can easily refute this, and I will do so just to prove a point.

Alves: Stopped Karo, Hughes and pummeled Koscheck, ALL top 10 fighters, 2 of the 3 in the top 5 at the time. Koscheck is still in the top 5, and Hughes is close to it.

Penn: Spent a whopping 3 years over 155, so to say he's too small is a farce. Wins over a prime hughes, Renzo and Rodrigo Gracie at 185, and a close fight against a young GSP. 

Fitch: Not sure what finishing fights has to do with skill, but 11-1 in the UFC with wins over Paulo Thiago, Thiago Alves, and Diego isn't too shabby.

Serra: An average fighter, the one blemish on GSP's record.
Even in terms of a win. Not really that bad though. He's only lost to the top fighters in the division outside of a flash KO by Carter, and a controversial loss to Din Thomas whom was a top 10 fighter at the time.

Hughes: Hard to argue he was past his prime, he didn't show much signs of declining and to be honest he lost more in his so-called prime than he did when he pulled of that huge streak before losing to his daddy. Not to mention he fought a bigger version of Alves than allowed, although I think Alves was just the better fighter that night. He is less active and people think he's washed up, but he's still a 4-6 guy in the top 10. Losing 3 fights to the 2 best fighters in the division doesn't mean he's washed up. However, the torch has definitely past. As for GSP losing, he lost to the best WW ever, in his first title fight, not a major blemish by any means.

K done....now


Your turn.

Defend Coleman, AA, Sylvia, etc.

Because while your arguments were childish and nonsensical.

Coleman losing 4 fights in a row, being washed up, then aging an ADDITIONAL FOUR years before Fraudor beat him is pretty valid to me.

Sylvia being absolutely abhorrent in hindsight of the Fraudor fight is pretty valid, losing 4 of 5. However, not taking into account hindsight, he had only lost 2 of 3 going into the fight. :laugh:

Etc.....etc....etc....

EDIT: And really, I'm going back in time to take some of Fraudor's "best" wins. Because there's really no way to defend the likes of some the guys he's fought in this 3 year sample Hong Man Choi, Matt Lindland, Zuluzino and Mark Hunt. :laugh:


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## Ground'N'Pound5 (Aug 7, 2009)

frankly, as weird as it sounds, their really doesnt deserve to be a P4P.

most of these P4P fighters cant fight eachother cause of weightclass differences so their really is no one P4P imo


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Sorry for the triple post guys, I'm not used to the Multi-Quote function.

I have Fraudor number 4. Just ahead of Mousasi. Although Mousasi will overtake him soon, and everyone else on the list.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Sorry for the triple post guys, I'm not used to the Multi-Quote function.
> 
> I have Fraudor number 4. Just ahead of Mousasi. Although Mousasi will overtake him soon, and everyone else on the list.


It's all good. I myself just learned how to use the mutli-quote function and have been a member here for over 2 years.

On a different note, I will neg rep you till your red if you continue to call Fedor a fraud. Just sayin.


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## m0nkey (Jun 13, 2009)

I think not actually losing serves a purpose in the rankings to keep it solid, hes fought all types of fighters besides 1, hes won them all


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Roflcopter said:


> Except you are using childish and nonsensical points to do this, while points on Fedor are actually valid. I and anyone with half a brain can easily refute this, and I will do so just to prove a point.
> 
> Alves: Stopped Karo, Hughes and pummeled Koscheck, ALL top 10 fighters, 2 of the 3 in the top 5 at the time. Koscheck is still in the top 5, and Hughes is close to it.
> 
> ...



Coleman was a solid top HW when Fedor beat him, especially the 1st time. 

Chinny or not AA was top 10 when Fedor KOd him and dude is a skilled and well-rounded HW. Not because he's 0-2 in his last 2 that it should be downplayed as a win. AA is a very good fighter, that punch would have a KOd a mule. 

Rogers top 10. Good win. 

Timmy, I'll give you that. Decent win but not great. But it's not like it took him 3 rounds to beat him, he out-struke him and subbed him within 30/40 sec.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Xerxes said:


> Ftr I don't think Fedor is above GSP in the P4P rankings.
> 
> But yeah I think he's a top 3, top 5 at worst.





alizio said:


> ok, i agree with that. I have him at 5 and dropping like a stone, if his next two opponents are Werdum and Overeem i wont know wtf to do. I dont even know how Overeem is ranked :confused03: If he clears out strikefarce he may move up but if Silva, GSP and BJ keep doing what they are doing i dont see how and guys like Aldo and Machida have strong chances to face tougher competition on a more consistent basis that would surpass his recent showings aswell imo
> 
> The real problem i have is how can a guy be ranked number 1 when he is clearly in the weakest division in the sport??


I won't punish a guy for fighting in a weak division. I will punish a guy for not fighting any of the best fighters in said weakest division in Mir, Carwin, Valazques, Lesnar, Dos Santos, hell even Monson or Rizzo would've been better than a big ass tire changer.



Xerxes said:


> Coleman was a solid top HW when Fedor beat him, especially the 1st time.
> 
> Chinny or not AA was top 10 when Fedor KOd him and dude is a skilled and well-rounded HW. Not because he's 0-2 in his last 2 that it should be downplayed as a win. AA is a very good fighter, that punch would have a KOd a mule.
> 
> ...


Not really, Coleman lost to every good fighter he faced after the UFC booted him for losing 3 straight. He even lost to his best 2 opponents in PRIDE. Maybe he was ranked, but that doesn't stop said rankings from being terrible. Coleman didn't even beat anyone remotely good.

It's like...hmm who should I use. Well. John Doe.

It's like saying John Doe is a top 5 title contender for beating Josh Burkman, Drew Fickett, Edween Dewees and Jorge Rivera. That's just ridiculous, you have to beat SOMEONE good. Which is why I never understood the hype around Brett Rodgers. Have you SEEN this guys' early fights. It was the equivalent of a glorified backyard wrestling match. It was disgraceful. He just beat a very chinny AA, an AA that anyone an their can KO if they get lucky enough. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to totally downplay AA. He's the only one I will say ok, he gets a LITTLE credit there. Coleman was a joke, and Rodgers was laughably green and overmatched, but AA was a legit fighter. Could've been one of the best of all time at HW. But damn his chin is nonexistent. 7 TIMES! SEVEN...seven...most high level cans don't even get knocked out 7 fight, let alone a world champion. I think Fraudor got as lucky as Brett Rodgers did, but again, hard to say what's luck or not when any tap will put him on queer street. I DID think Fraudor was hurt though.

EDIT: Goddamn it...I double posted again...-_-


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

How about Fedor is the top P4P because of these following reasons:


He has no "hole" in his game. With Silva, we say "take him to the ground, his TDD is weak." With GSP, we say "avoid TDs and try to KO like Serra did." With Fedor there's no way to approach the fight with a real gameplan.

GSP and Anderson Silva have both said he's the best?

Anderson Silva is only a few pounds apart from Fedor, and Silva himself said Fedor would beat him.

Fedor actually only walks at around 25lbs heavier than GSP. If GSP gained another 15lbs and Fedor cut 15lbs do we really think GSP would stand a chance against Fedor?


Fedor typically fights a fighter at their own game and dominates: Layed in Nog's guard, stood up with Rogers and Arlovski, etc opposed to GSP and Silva who try to make it their fight by playing into their strengths (which is great, but when you have strengths that means you have weaknesses, relevant to P4P).




How about this question: Silva, GSP, and Fedor aren't too far apart physically. Silva is actually bigger in every way except a few pounds and GSP is only 2" shorter, but with a longer reach. But would you really question the outcome of Fedor vs GSP or Fedor vs Silva at any weight? That's the essence of P4P. 


Silva has recently beaten Leites, Cote, and Irvin. Can we compare these to Rogers, Arlovski, Sylvia? And seeing as how Fedor finished everyone by the 2nd round convincing, and Silva did not, that hurts Silva's ranking as well.

I think people are really confused about pound-for-pound - the term in itself. It is not at all relevant to their weightclass, being #1 in your weightclass does not instantly guarantee P4P status. For example, if Rumble Johnson became the champ at 170, it'd be hard to rank him P4P as his tremendous size advantage would no doubt have a part in his victories.

Just like Lesnar and Rogers will most likely never be considered for P4P. They've always been physically much bigger than their competition.


We know that Fedor if he cut to 185 or 205 could beat the opponents that Silva has beat. But do we know that Silva would at all be able to handle Rogers? Or Arlovski? Or anyone considerably bigger than him? Silva has never faced anyone bigger than him, therefor it's exceptionally difficult to rate him P4P. 







I: Who would win in a fight between you and Fedor?
AS: Fedor.


*P4P*


Fedor

GSP

Silva

Shogun

Penn



In all reasonableness though, P4P should be a "collection" of names instead of a sequential ranking. If we were to say, the top pound for pound fighters include GSP, Fedor, Silva, Shogun, Penn, etc... who would argue? And it's nearly impossible to tell where P4P rankings are since obviously Penn cannot fight Fedor. Of course we can rank them if they choose to fight at the same weight, but that is very very rare.


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## djPradaG (Nov 12, 2009)

*Umm*

Having a P4P ranking when fighters haven't fought each other is still beyond me. However, many people seem to find the need to continue to do "MMA Math," and slap on these P4P rankings.

Let me enlighten some of you into the downfall of "MMA Math." Tito Ortiz, who holds the UFC LHW divisions most championship wins, has beaten Wanderlei Silva, in a decision. Wanderlei Silva, beat Quinton "Rampage" Jackson on the first 2 occasions, and in decisive fashion. Quinton Jackson has beaten Chuck Liddell both times he fought him, and beat him in decisive fashion as well, both times. And Chuck has beaten Tito Ortiz, twice, and both being in decisive fashion. Get the point guys? It's a circle. 

If we move back to before Wanderlei fought Chuck, using the, oh so effective and always correct MMA Math, one could firmly argue, that Wanderlei Silva should win it since he brutally beat Rampage, who brutally beat Chuck, and only lost to Tito by decision. However, we find that is not the case. Some of you may ask, why is that? He beat him and got beat by him, etc. Many of you haven't been in a real fight, that's why. It isn't about who beat who, etc. Not only was there the old adage: "Styles make fights." But any fighter will tell you, on a single night, it may be their off night. 9 times out of 10, you may be able to put an ass whooping on someone, but on fight night, that 1 time out of 10 happens.


Now onto Fedor, or "Fraudor" as I've seen numerous times in this thread?

Have we forgotten that skills play an integral role in rating a fighter on how good he is? So many people rank Anderson Silva as the P4P best fighter in the world, but are we forgetting his sub-par wrestling? Though he is a BJJ blackbelt, and has God-like striking (not to mention the ridiculous reflexes), he has a hole in his game in the transition between both. That, my friends, doesn't look very well rounded to me.

GSP in my honest opinion, besides Fedor, should be regarded up there. He's so well-rounded it makes people sick. Recently awarded his BJJ blackbelt, ridiculous stand up, and his take downs are crazy. And like Fedor (Fraudor lol), he mixes it up very seamlessly. That's called being well-rounded, and in my opinion, real grounds for being a good fighter. Contrast their fluidity to someone like Tito Ortiz. He's known for his wrestling, and has been working dilligently on his striking. But he's unable to take people who are more well-rounded than him down, ala Forrest, and Chuck. He shoots from the outside, and goes for a single or double leg take down, which is ineffective. GSP however, strikes with you enough for you to believe that you need to worry about his strikes, MOVES IN CLOSER, and then shoots in for the take down.

Fedor is very similar, only his transition is more towards Judo than wrestling. Regardless, he does the same thing GSP does, strikes with you, moves in close with it, and takes you down, or throws you down. Well-roundedness.

Yes, his wins are amazing.. Being able to boast a record like his in the world of MMA is absolutely insane. Critically analyze his fights and you'll see the reason why many people think he's the best. No, I'm not talking about going into fight finder or wikipedia, I mean watch the fights. And for God sake.. why are we forgetting that he fought Big Nog?! Crocop?! Remember, both were in their prime when he beat them.


Lastly, if you want to really think about P4P, who would be the best? Just picture, and forget the weight classes when you do this, because when it gets right down to the wire, a fight is a fight, period. Imagine Fedor fighting Anderson Silva, Anderson has phenomenal head movement, and some power too, but would he be able to KO Fedor? Watch the Fujita fight and say that Fedor can't take a punch. Would he be able to submit Fedor? Anderson trains with the Nogueira brothers and we saw what Fedor did to Big Nog on the ground, not even standing. What options are there?

GSP vs. Fedor. Same thing here, but I believe it'd be a more competetive fight. But when a fight at that level happens, weight matters (hence the reason of weight classes to begin with), and with Fedor at 220 and GSP at 170, both being quick as hell, I'd probaby say it'd only be a matter of time.

But of course, until such fights happen, you can't really judge who would win. Another reason why P4P rankings in my opinion are ridiculous.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> How about Fedor is the top P4P because of these following reasons:
> 
> 
> He has no "hole" in his game. With Silva, we say "take him to the ground, his TDD is weak." With GSP, we say "avoid TDs and try to KO like Serra did." With Fedor there's no way to approach the fight with a real gameplan.
> ...


Fraudor striking is very average. Just because he KO'd AA means nothing. AA has been knocked out seven ****ing times. He probably had superior striking to all of them as well. And...AA was winning the stand up battle.

Rogers is just shit and Fraudor knocking him out has nothing to do with anything because Fraudor just has faster hand speed. Rogers had limited boxing training, no martial arts, no nothing. He was just a big, strong dude who by extension hit hard. David Tua hit hard, and had a 10x better chin, you didn't see him winning world titles.

Fraudor just hasn't fought a super dangerous striker yet because of the division. If he stood with Dos Santos, I'd send you my 500 dollar phone if he didn't get knocked out.

I bet even Mir would beat Fraudor. Not even striking, just straight up MMA. Now that he's roided up. Mir's hand speed is equal and his technique is vastly superior.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Fraudor striking is very average. Just because he KO'd AA means nothing. AA has been knocked out seven ****ing times. He probably had superior striking to all of them as well. And...AA was winning the stand up battle.
> 
> Rogers is just shit and Fraudor knocking him out has nothing to do with anything because Fraudor just has faster hand speed. Rogers had limited boxing training, no martial arts, no nothing. He was just a big, strong dude who by extension hit hard. David Tua hit hard, and had a 10x better chin, you didn't see him winning world titles.
> 
> ...




Are you and alizio related? Just curious. Good argument btw. Very factual and well-sourced, solid opinions based on experience and knowledge.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

You remind me of the people that I was trying to convince that Fleeoto was overrated and would be exposed by Shogun. And he was. For some reason, people thought Thiago Silva was some excellent striker. Shogun was the best striker by far that Fleeoto ever fought and it showed.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> How about Fedor is the top P4P because of these following reasons:
> 
> 
> He has no "hole" in his game. With Silva, we say "take him to the ground, his TDD is weak." With GSP, we say "avoid TDs and try to KO like Serra did." With Fedor there's no way to approach the fight with a real gameplan.
> ...


 you clearly have no idea what p4p is... you keep saying if GSP moved up, if Silva moved up to fight Fedor.... LOL.... P4P was invented because there are weight classes for a reason, it's the same as saying, well the HW division has always been one of the weakest and the LHW division has always been one of the strongest.... why didnt Fedor move down?? Same silly arguement just reserved... well done. I bet Shane Carwin could beat GSP... best put him in the p4p... Frank Mir?? Ditto.... Hell i think Cain could beat GSP at HW. So what?? That's why we have divisions and thats why it's called POUND FOR POUND by your silly arguement the HW would always be number 1... let me guess the best boxer in the world is a HW too right?? I mean Manny or Pretty Boy couldnt beat a Klitchko so i guess he is the best too?? What a pathetic arguement.

Since you say Silva and Fedor are so close why doesnt Fedor move down to MW?? hahahahha or LHW?? Why should he have to?? He would be at a big disadvantage which is the reason for the P4P.

THIS JUST IN, ANDERSON SILVA IS A MODEST GUY!! HE SAYS FEDOR COULD BEAT HIM!! HELL HE EVEN SAID IN ANOTHER INTERVIEW HE WASNT THE BEST THAT BIG NOG IS!!! I GUESS THATS A FACT NOW TOO HUH!! hahaha another weak arguement, presenting questions asked in passing as an MMA fact from one of the most humble badasses this side of Fedor himself who prob doesnt think he is the best nor care. Neither does Anderson and i have seen him many times say other ppl are the best. Machida, Nog, Fedor, GSP to name just a few.

You take an interview that he answers a question in passing as a FACT?? hahahahahaha!!! What was Andersons reason?? He is big. lol. Well if that isnt an well thought out in-depth analysis of the match up i dont know what is!!


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

alizio said:


> you clearly have no idea what p4p is... you keep saying if GSP moved up, if Silva moved up to fight Fedor.... LOL.... P4P was invented because there are weight classes for a reason, it's the same as saying, well the HW division has always been one of the weakest and the LHW division has always been one of the strongest.... why didnt Fedor move down?? Same silly arguement just reserved... well done. I bet Shane Carwin could beat GSP... best put him in the p4p... Frank Mir?? Ditto.... Hell i think Cain could beat GSP at HW. So what?? That's why we have divisions and thats why it's called POUND FOR POUND by your silly arguement the HW would always be number 1... let me guess the best boxer in the world is a HW too right?? I mean Manny or Pretty Boy couldnt beat a Klitchko so i guess he is the best too?? What a pathetic arguement.
> 
> Since you say Silva and Fedor are so close why doesnt Fedor move down to MW?? hahahahha or LHW?? Why should he have to?? He would be at a big disadvantage which is the reason for the P4P.
> 
> ...


I don't even know where to start with this mess. Fedor moving down to LHW would be a disadvantage? What?

And Fedor and Silva walk around at 10lbs apart. In my post I addressed that very rarely can P4P compete at the same weight, in this case they can. There's evidence to backup that Fedor would be the decisive victor. What you're missing about this entire thing is that Silva and Fedor are very close since Fedor is a tiny HW and Silva has a big frame even for a LHW.

And the HW division has only been weak in the UFC. In Pride the HW division was stacked, and now at SF the HW division has a ton of challengers (they're also co promoting to have him fight Barnett). 

Silva has cut a ton of weight and fought way below his natural weightclass to gain a solid reach and height advantage over opponents. Fedor has done the opposite. This is also relevant to P4P.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Roflcopter said:


> *Not really, Coleman lost to every good fighter he faced after the UFC booted him for losing 3 straight.* He even lost to his best 2 opponents in PRIDE. Maybe he was ranked, but that doesn't stop said rankings from being terrible. *Coleman didn't even beat anyone remotely good.*


Ever heard of Igor Vovchanchyn? 

+ Fujita and Don Frye were both good wins at that time. 

I suggest you do a little more research before making statements like that. 



> It's like...hmm who should I use. Well. John Doe.
> 
> It's like saying John Doe is a top 5 title contender for beating Josh Burkman, Drew Fickett, Edween Dewees and Jorge Rivera. That's just ridiculous, you have to beat SOMEONE good. *Which is why I never understood the hype around Brett Rodgers.* Have you SEEN this guys' early fights. It was the equivalent of a glorified backyard wrestling match. It was disgraceful. He just beat a very chinny AA, an AA that anyone an their can KO if they get lucky enough.


Can you explain to me how Rogers is different than say, Shane Carwin?



> Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to totally downplay AA. He's the only one I will say ok, he gets a LITTLE credit there. *Coleman was a joke*, and Rodgers was laughably green and overmatched, but AA was a legit fighter. Could've been one of the best of all time at HW. But damn his chin is nonexistent. 7 TIMES! SEVEN...seven...most high level cans don't even get knocked out 7 fight, let alone a world champion. I think Fraudor got as lucky as Brett Rodgers did, but again, hard to say what's luck or not when any tap will put him on queer street. I DID think Fraudor was hurt though.
> 
> EDIT: Goddamn it...I double posted again...-_-


You need to put each fight into context. Again, Coleman was a solid win at the time Fedor fought him. 

And AA wasnt TKOd 7 but 6 times. On the same note Forrest Griffin was TKOd 4 times and I wouldnt say his chin is any more solid than AA's. Interestingly, AS KOing him made him the *undisputed* #1 P4P fighter in the world in most people's eyes, while Rogers last KO win is discredited and shouldn't bump him into the 10 top because AA is chinny. 

Interesting double standards no?



Roflcopter said:


> I won't punish a guy for fighting in a weak division. I will punish a guy for not fighting any of the best fighters in said weakest division in Mir, Carwin, Valazques, Lesnar, Dos Santos, hell even Monson or Rizzo would've been better than a *big ass tire changer.*


This is as silly as me calling the UFC HW #1 contender 'a 34 y o part time engineer'. 

Again, what's with the double standard?


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> I don't even know where to start with this mess. Fedor moving down to LHW would be a disadvantage? What?
> 
> And Fedor and Silva walk around at 10lbs apart. In my post I addressed that very rarely can P4P compete at the same weight, in this case they can. There's evidence to backup that Fedor would be the decisive victor. What you're missing about this entire thing is that Silva and Fedor are very close since Fedor is a tiny HW and Silva has a big frame even for a LHW.
> 
> ...


 ok, a nugget of wisdom from you!! i agree with the following

"Silva has cut a ton of weight and fought way below his natural weightclass to gain a solid reach and height advantage over opponents. Fedor has done the opposite. This is also relevant to P4P"

i never really thought of it, and yes it should be taken into consideration. But by no means are the body types of Anderson and Fedor even remotely alike and im not sure Fedor cutting to LHW a much more talent rich division would mean tbh and what his cardio and strength would be like without the legendary baby fat and neither do you.

Anderson on the other hand is very lanky and naturally skinny, he is far from a natural HW and walking around weight has nothing to do with ideal fighting weight and as a fighter i would expect you to know this. Fedor would not have an easy time making 205 and the division is much tougher imo there is far from a guarantee he could beat any of the top LHW at a 205 match, nevermind Anderson Silva.

This is why they have divisions. If Fedor could so easily fight at 205 why doesnt he?? I think it would be far from easy for him and it would be far from easy for Silva to fight any top notch HW nevermind Fedor.

p4p is argued on the basis that ppl cant face each other, that's the whole point of p4p... but you superside that with your own "well he couldnt beat him in a real match at HW" arguement.... which is the reason they made p4p in the 1st place because EVERYBODY knows those fights arent on an even playing field which is why we have divisions.

You always talk like the higher up you go the harder it is. That may be true because you will be at a natural disadvantage but that doesnt mean it's harder in terms of skill. In fact i would say the opposite and rarely do you see guys make a real huge cut and dominate a division because its just not easy to do. I would also argue that currently the two most stacked divisions in MMA are in the UFC at LW and WW, it's just both divisions Champions are the best of all time at the class.

Bigger weightclass does not equal better. Infact i would argue HW has been the weakest division since the inception of MMA and only recently are we seeing many more well rounded big men.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Roflcopter said:


> Fraudor striking is *very average*. Just because he KO'd AA means nothing. AA has been knocked out *seven ****ing times*. He probably had superior striking to all of them as well. And...AA was winning the stand up battle.
> 
> *Rogers is just shit* and Fraudor knocking him out has nothing to do with anything because Fraudor just has faster hand speed. Rogers had limited boxing training, no martial arts, no nothing. He was just a big, strong dude who by extension hit hard. David Tua hit hard, and had a 10x better chin, you didn't see him winning world titles.
> *
> ...


So many wrong facts and biased opinions in this post that I dont even know where to start tbh...


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Xerxes said:


> Ever heard of Igor Vovchanchyn?
> 
> + Fujita and Don Frye were both good wins at that time.
> 
> ...


Igor was crap, Fujita a journeyman. But yeah, Fraudor fans seem to overrate people constantly.

Also lol at comparing Rogers to Carwin. Carwin actually has a base...ya know, a high level wrestling one.

Wouldn't consider Forrest that chinny. He's never been upset by a fluke punch or anything. Just been beaten.
Wouldn't consider it that significant a win for AS either, although it was nice. I also gave AA a lot of credit in my other post, so whatever.....

As for the tire changer comment, I made that comment because thats what Rogers was, a tire changers. He's a complete can. No base whatsoever. This guys just a big dude who's been training in MMA for a few years. No Karate background, no wrestling or boxing base, or kickboxing or muy thai. Just big ass thug, tire changer.



Xerxes said:


> So many wrong facts and biased opinions in this post that I dont even know where to start tbh...


No, not at all, it was speculation. I believe it as true as I believe FLEEoto never faced a good striker before being exposed by Shogun.

EDIT: Ah, damn it. It throws me off when someone posts while I'm typing something, then I got quote something to respond, and end up double posting.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Rogers being exposed as a big no talent bum is gonna be delicious, i cant wait to hear Khovs reasoning, Fedor stole his soul perhaps?? hahah so true he has no base, no real MMA background, ppl are saying a guy who just started training is gonna beat a legend of the sport?? Ok and imma dunk on Dwight Howard 2morro cuz i play ball in my backyard sometimes. Theres this guy i know who fights at a local gym, real good LW, he better get a shot at BJ Penn soon and stop delivering pizzas, lord knows he is "legit". Yea he can beat on some nobodys using his sheer size and punching power but against skilled guys he is gonna lose 9/10 times and maybe 8/10 against skilled guys with no chin like AA.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

alizio said:


> ok, a nugget of wisdom from you!! i agree with the following
> 
> "Silva has cut a ton of weight and fought way below his natural weightclass to gain a solid reach and height advantage over opponents. Fedor has done the opposite. This is also relevant to P4P"
> 
> ...


Yes agreed that P4P is for fighters who are too different in weight to face eachother. Like Aldo vs Silva - who's the better P4P striker? 

The difference here is Silva has a frame that could easily support HW and his walking around weight is within 5% of Fedor's walking around weight - which is also the weight he fights at. If 220lbs of Fedor would beat 220lbs of Silva, Fedor is better P4P - right? 


If we're talking about legacy and competition... that's a nearly impossible argument. Fedor is the best ***** practitioner in the world, has some of the most accurate and powerful striking and has outstruck world class kickboxers... his competition has included top BJJ guys in the world and the best wrestlers at the time and the best strikers at the time. 


Talking about moving up and putting yourself at a natural disadvantage - that's also the essence of P4P. If they cannot fight where they are at a physical disadvantage... are they worthy of the P4P title?




edit: Rogers is no can. He trains fiercely and uses distance excellently. He's very good at explosively shrugging off submission attempts and he's proven to have a vicious killer instinct, and KO power in both hands. It's getting hard not to write you guys off as racists - you have zero supporting evidence that Rogers is anything but talented.


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## djPradaG (Nov 12, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Yes agreed that P4P is for fighters who are too different in weight to face eachother. Like Aldo vs Silva - who's the better P4P striker?
> 
> The difference here is Silva has a frame that could easily support HW and his walking around weight is within 5% of Fedor's walking around weight - which is also the weight he fights at. If 220lbs of Fedor would beat 220lbs of Silva, Fedor is better P4P - right?
> 
> ...


My point exactly. Big up man, well said.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Roflcopter, I dont know why I'm still debating with you tbh. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion but you can't even get your *facts* straight. 

Saying Fedor hasnt faced a dangerous striker yet when he faced and beat prime Cro Cop and saying AA was KOd 7 times (when it's 6 times) is wrong. 

Arguing Mir's hand speed is equal to his and that Igor was crap is extremely questionable. 

And stop double posting on every single page, edit your previous post instead.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Yes agreed that P4P is for fighters who are too different in weight to face eachother. Like Aldo vs Silva - who's the better P4P striker?
> 
> The difference here is Silva has a frame that could easily support HW and his walking around weight is within 5% of Fedor's walking around weight - which is also the weight he fights at. If 220lbs of Fedor would beat 220lbs of Silva, Fedor is better P4P - right?
> 
> ...



As i said, i would take Fedor over Silva at HW and Silva over Fedor at LHW. I would take BJ Penn rather easily over GSP at LW. That's why we have p4p. No Silva and Fedor arent even close to the same frames or weight. Silva just chooses to get real big and enjoy life during his downtime but make no mistake his real in shape frame is best at 205 and he isnt huge there.

You say Fedor has beaten the best wrestlers and BJJ guys of all time but im sad to say i dont think HW has ever had either or. The best of both are in the lower weight classes. The HW division has been by far the weakest so i dont know how you claim he faced the best?? He faced the best of the HWs which is the best of the worst division.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

alizio said:


> As i said, i would take Fedor over Silva at HW and Silva over Fedor at LHW. *I would take BJ Penn rather easily over GSP at LW.* That's why we have p4p. No Silva and Fedor arent even close to the same frames or weight. Silva just chooses to get real big and enjoy life during his downtime but make no mistake his real in shape frame is best at 205 and he isnt huge there.
> 
> You say Fedor has beaten the best wrestlers and BJJ guys of all time but im sad to say i dont think HW has ever had either or. The best of both are in the lower weight classes. The HW division has been by far the weakest so i dont know how you claim he faced the best?? He faced the best of the HWs which is the best of the worst division.


Then BJ is above GSP in your list?


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

alizio said:


> As i said, i would take Fedor over Silva at HW and Silva over Fedor at LHW. I would take BJ Penn rather easily over GSP at LW. That's why we have p4p. No Silva and Fedor arent even close to the same frames or weight. Silva just chooses to get real big and enjoy life during his downtime but make no mistake his real in shape frame is best at 205 and he isnt huge there.
> 
> You say Fedor has beaten the best wrestlers and BJJ guys of all time but im sad to say i dont think HW has ever had either or. The best of both are in the lower weight classes. The HW division has been by far the weakest so i dont know how you claim he faced the best?? He faced the best of the HWs which is the best of the worst division.



Yeah but Fedor isn't cut at 230. He's got some extra flub he could easily afford to lose - except then he'd be a LHW. Silva actually has a larger frame as he is 2" taller and a 3-4" longer reach.

Picking Penn over GSP at 155 and Silva over Fedor at 205 is where we cannot meet eye to eye. Penn did not lose because of size at 170 vs GSP and Silva would not lose due to size at HW against Fedor.


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## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

AS is taller and has a longer reach but he doesnt have a larger frame. He's a lot narrower than Fedor.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Xerxes said:


> AS is taller and has a longer reach but he doesnt have a larger frame. He's a lot narrower than Fedor.


Fedor has decently wide shoulders but I think it's easily negated by Silva's much longer reach and height.


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## Light_Speed (Jun 3, 2009)

its pretty simple...anderson , gsp and penn pretty much cleared out their division and have no one that can give them a challenge.. fedor on the other hand would have a bunch of tuff fights in his weight class in shane carwin, brock lesner, cain vesquez, JDS and a few more,,.thats the differnce


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Light_Speed said:


> its pretty simple...anderson , gsp and penn pretty much cleared out their division and have no one that can give them a challenge.. fedor on the other hand would have a bunch of tuff fights in his weight class in shane carwin, brock lesner, cain vesquez, JDS and a few more,,.thats the differnce


This makes no sense...


Silva has fights left at MW and a ton of fights left at LHW. Fedor has beaten more top contenders at HW than Silva or GSP has beaten by far. And you only named people in the UFC... Fedor is basically considered unchallenged at HW with maybe one or two theoretical opponents. Silva has very interesting matches left with Vitor and a way improved Marquardt and Maia. At LHW Silva has oodles of people.

Nonsense statement pretty much.


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## King JLB (Apr 28, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> How about Fedor is the top P4P because of these following reasons:
> 
> 
> He has no "hole" in his game. With Silva, we say "take him to the ground, his TDD is weak." With GSP, we say "avoid TDs and try to KO like Serra did." With Fedor there's no way to approach the fight with a real gameplan.
> ...


This is excellent. Obviously a Fedor fan, but the arguments are valid. Fedor will always be an argument. Roflcopter obviously has an issue with him (Fraudor, lol good one :thumbsdown. You can look past the cans, the non-mma fighters (Schilt btw was an MMA fighter before K-1), the nearly flawless record, you won't find much there right?

Unless Fedor leaves Strikforce right away, takes out every HW in the UFC, he will always have his naysayers. I think this argument is as useful as a poopy flavored lollypop (sorry but Dodgeball was hilarious). I noticed a lot of people haven't mentioned soemthing pretty obvious; the 3 other fighters who are considered among the top P4P (Penn, Silva, GSP) are all in the UFC.

I think a lot of "fans" need to get past the mindset that there are great fighters outside of the UFC who don't want to give in to the control Dana White asks of his employees.

Fedor will likely be fighting two SOLID fighters in his next matches:

Overeem - 43-11-1, nice submissions, KO power, _experienced_, Dana has stated numerous times he'd like to sign Ubereem
Werdum - 18-4-1, all his losses are from good heavyweights, BJJ black belt, was one or two fights away from a UFC title shot

I don't know, it doesn't look like Fedor's got too many cans on the horizon. Will change the haters' opinion? Of course not, he'll likely never fight Brock!


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## Jimdon (Aug 27, 2008)

Light_Speed said:


> its pretty simple...anderson , gsp and penn pretty much cleared out their division and have no one that can give them a challenge.. fedor on the other hand would have a bunch of tuff fights in his weight class in shane carwin, brock lesner, cain vesquez, JDS and a few more,,.thats the differnce


This makes sense to me, Silva, Penn and GSP have all cleaned out their respective divisions. Even if they are heads above their competition, they are still fighting the best fighters they can when they fight, the same cannot be said for Fedor. 

Giving a fighter of his caliber Brett Rogers to face is an insult, the man is in his prime, with an opportunity to cement his legacy as the best ever, and M-1 couldn't find anyone better to fight than Rogers? And it's not just Rogers, but many of his last fights have been against _very_ questionable opponents.

There was a time, back in the Pride days, when Fedor was Kingshit of Turd Mountain, but since then others have passed him by, you can't argue that Fedor doesn't have the skills to compete with some of the other names in the top 3, because he's shown in the past he definitely does, but saying Fedor could have does not beat the fact that GSP, Penn and Silva did.

I respectfully put the Last Emperor in spot #4.


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## USCG-Fighter (Dec 14, 2009)

Since day one I have loved Fedor, and don't get me wrong I still do. I have been a huge fan of him because of his ***** which is very similar to Judo. Unfortunately due to his desire to compete in the ***** championship every year he won't sign with UFC, as most of you know already.

Lets face the facts, by the time Dana and UFC offers him a contract in which he has the ability to fight for UFC *AND* still travel to compete in ***** is slim pickins. By that time he will probably be beatable (I know he is almighty and powerful and could probably kill chuck norris and all).

Unfortunately he will eventually lose. I just hope that the contract comes soon enough so he can prove himself to all the people in the states. MOST mma fans in the states don't even know who he is. I know, unfortunate isnt it. There are so many posers out there that still think Brock Lesnar was the best thing that ever happened to MMA. I have nothing against Brock I'm just tired of everyone sucking on the power teet of all these UFC fighters... 

Lets be serious MOST of the best came from PRIDE and are still doing well in UFC. Shit even some of the best from UFC went to PRIDE to compete got there asses kicked then wimpered back to UFC with there tail in between there legs (i.e. Lidell, Royce Gracie, Mark Coleman[whom i will give credit actually did well in pride] and many more).

Point said, sign Fedor lets see him kick some ass in UFC before its too late and he's to old to fight, cause it is possible.


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

Anderson should be #1 IMO.

However I'm not taking anything from Fedor and TBH he's beaten more UFC gold holders than probably any fighter in MMA history. Put that with the fact that he damn near always finishes his fights now days... I'd have to put him at #3. 

Even though TBH when arguing GSPs status, It's hard to look past the fact that he left himself open to KO against Serra and has defeated guys who are less than credible latley. Like Alves, and Hughes. Hughes used to be great when noone really knew how to fight a world class wrestler. Now Hughes is just obsolete in a well rounded MMA world.

Anderson is top dog and arguing against that is pretty hard to do.


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## swedish_fighter (Jul 12, 2009)

You guys are crazy!  :confused03:
This is the correct P4P list:

Fedor #1 P4P.
Obviously the best, he is extreme for his light weight, usually fighting people weighting a LOT more than himself. He has fought the best he could possible face, always.

GSP #2
Really solid game. Boring to watch, but damn he gets the job done!

Dan Henderson #3
Knocked out Michael Bisping, the undefeated TUF champ.

BJ Penn #4
Probably one with the best ground game in the UFC. However horrible stand-up, if he was to face Bisping he would get knocked out quickly.

Anderson Silva #5
He hasn't really fought anyone worth mentioning, and he got losses against several no namers outside the UFC. Not a bad fighter, but very overrated.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

swedish_fighter said:


> You guys are crazy!  :confused03:
> This is the correct P4P list:
> 
> Fedor #1 P4P.
> ...


No offense but this is probably the worst p4p list I have ever seen...Dan Henderson is before BJ Penn and Anderson Silva??? Silva beat Hendo..and while I agree with the other names on the list I dont know if I would put them in that order..Machida should be on their in place of Dan Henderson though for sure.

Anderson Silva is overrated? Did you take a break from watching MMA for the past 3 years? Or do you just watch old Pride videos? Because if thats where you get your facts from its rediculous, A silva has beaten Hendo, Rich Franklin x2, Nate Marquardt those were at one point some of the top MW in the UFC and he beat all of them pretty convincingly..I dont understand your logic at all maybe you could elaborate a little further as to why you believe he is so overrated?


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

swedish_fighter said:


> You guys are crazy!  :confused03:
> This is the correct P4P list:
> 
> Fedor #1 P4P.
> ...


_No this list is far away from the truth 

I try to explain it!

#1 Fedor:
Hasn't fought many top guys in the last couple of years. 

#2 GSP:
In my opinion he is very entertaining! I think i said that before, but he shows us every time real MMA fights. If you watch him fight, you always see every littel aspect of MMA and thats just beautiful!

#3 Dan Henderson
Doesnt belong in this group for to many reasons!
*Lyoto Machida belongs there!*

#4 BJ Penn
Should be on 3 because he is the best  Even through he takes risks, wich makes him even more raise01:

#5 Anderson Silva
Is obv number one or two for several reasons you probably know _


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

BobbyCooper said:


> _No this list is far away from the truth
> 
> I try to explain it!
> 
> ...


_

The last three recent fights were against 2 top 5 fighters at the time and also 1 top 10 fighter.

Fedor has knocked out 3 of those guys, he also wrestled with Brett. In those three fights Fedor has beaten 2 former UFC heavy weight champions as well as KOed a fighter with no losses.

Fedor has wrestled against top wrestlers and has outstruck excellent strikers. Fedor fought the best from around the world, unlike Machida and GSP etc who has really only fought local fighters from the America's._


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

monaroCountry said:


> The last three recent fights were against 2 top 5 fighters at the time and also 1 top 10 fighter.
> 
> Fedor has knocked out 3 of those guys, he also wrestled with Brett. In those three fights Fedor has beaten 2 former UFC heavy weight champions as well as KOed a fighter with no losses.
> 
> Fedor has wrestled against top wrestlers and has outstruck excellent strikers. Fedor fought the best from around the world, unlike Machida and GSP etc who has really only fought local fighters from the America's.


Can't argue with this. :thumbsup:


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

J.P. said:


> Anderson should be #1 IMO.
> 
> However I'm not taking anything from Fedor and TBH he's beaten more UFC gold holders than probably any fighter in MMA history. Put that with the fact that he damn near always finishes his fights now days... I'd have to put him at #3.
> 
> ...



Fought against 6 Japanese fighters and lost against Daiju Takase, Ryo Chonan, and Yushin Okami (last three Japanese fighters he has fought). Decided to fight for the UFC where he wouldnt need to fight against harder international fighters. Since 2006 Silva has only ever fought 9 USA fighters, 1 from Canada and 1 from Brazil. Since then Silva hasnt fought an international fighter outside the America's.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Stokes said:


> Can't argue with this. :thumbsup:


Machida has fought across the world and GSP has beaten absutely everyone at 170. So yes, that rather pointless statement can be argued.
I'm not sure what you were rambling on about wrestling with bum Rogers, who isn't even a wrestler. And is complete overrated garbage. And yeah Tim Sylvia sucks. Fraudor's wins over the last 3 years have been abysmal. Only one of them is ranked in the top 10 currently, and his stay will be short. Guaranteed.

Also, not sure what this Fraudor's fought the best out there is about. That's complete balderdash. He hasn't even fought he best in his organization(Overeem(bum), Werdum) and certainly hasn't looked in the general direction of the real threats. Mir, Cain, Carwin, Lesnar are all out there in the top 5 waiting for him. He will duck them he rest of his career though.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Also, not sure what this Fraudor's fought the best out there is about. That's complete balderdash. He hasn't even fought he best in his organization(Overeem(bum), Werdum) and certainly hasn't looked in the general direction of the real threats. Mir, Cain, Carwin, Lesnar are all out there in the top 5 waiting for him. He will duck them he rest of his career though.


Two years ago no one even knew who Cain ro Carwin is, and now Fedor is ducking them, and they're top 5? Come on now. Cain couldn't even finish Kongo who was coming off a 3 week training camp, and Carwin has beaten *one* top guy in Gonzaga. 

Mir's top win is his arm breaking of Sylvia, yet Sylvia sucks according to you. Other than that, he beat Nog, who Fedor absolutely demolished twice, and then beat Lesnar, after Lesnar had only *one* professional MMA fight.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Machida has fought across the world and GSP has beaten absutely everyone at 170. So yes, that rather pointless statement can be argued.
> I'm not sure what you were rambling on about wrestling with bum Rogers, who isn't even a wrestler. And is complete overrated garbage. And yeah Tim Sylvia sucks. Fraudor's wins over the last 3 years have been abysmal. Only one of them is ranked in the top 10 currently, and his stay will be short. Guaranteed.
> 
> Also, not sure what this Fraudor's fought the best out there is about. That's complete balderdash. He hasn't even fought he best in his organization(Overeem(bum), Werdum) and certainly hasn't looked in the general direction of the real threats. Mir, Cain, Carwin, Lesnar are all out there in the top 5 waiting for him. He will duck them he rest of his career though.


Alright dude, you said I had a pointless statement so here we go. You obviously think that you have an arguement against FEDOR, which you dont, but I will argue my point against yours of thinking he is a "fraud."

First thing, lets look at their records. GSP is up first. He is 19-2 which is VERY, VERY impressive in his division because like you so kindly mentioned 20 times throughout this thread is stacked, and he has beaten almost everyone in it and all of the top contenders. However, he does have 2 very legit losses, on by submission to Matt Hughes, and one by KO to Matt Serra. So obviously, he is beatable and in both of his losses, he was finished. No decision involved. 

Lyoto Machida - He has never been beaten, so yes he has that going for him. It's very hard to be perfect in MMA and he has been so far, but You say he has fought all across the world, which is true but half of the fights(out of 7 total) "across the world" were against AMERICAN FIGHTERS. He fought a FAT BJ Penn and got a decision, beat Rich Franklin in 2003, and Stephan Bonnar, Got a decision victory over VERNON WHITE, SAM HOGER, and DAVID HEATH. Are you kidding me? SAM HOGER? Give me a break man the fighting across the world has nothing to do with his standings as p4p if the fighters he was up against "across the world" weren't top fighters at that point or even now. (referring to Bonnar, Franklin, and Penn(as a HW)

Fedor - Out of 33 of his fights, 29 of them were out of the United states (most taking place in japan and some in Russia/Lithuania) so he has much more experience fighting all over the world, right? He lost one fight due to a cut, but he did not lose that fight because he was beaten, the doctor stopped the fight. He has never lost a decision or been finished in a fight ever, and other than that cut he is undefeated and has beaten some of the BEST LHW and HW fighters in the world. Dont complain about some of the wins coming against LHW either, because fedor is not that big of a HW. He defeated Big Nog (twice) in his prime, submitted Randleman ( a very talented wrestler) and Mark Coleman twice, got a TKO victory over a beast in Gary Goodridge, defeated Mark Hunt via submission, beat CroCop in a battle, and more recently submitted Tim Sylvia(ex ufc HW champ) in under a minute, KO'd AA(another ex UFC HW champ) in the 1st round, and got a TKO over Brett Rogers. What has he done for you to consider him a "fraud"? He has beaten men bigger, smaller, and same size as him. He has a much more credible fight history than Lyoto machida does, your blind and ignorant if you cant see that. 

So, if I agree with someone, especially if they are defending Fedor after people like you are calling him a fraud or not considering him one of the best p4p fighters, don't comment on my post and say something stupid, like my post wasn't long enough for your liking. Your an idiot. I'm gonna neg rep the hell outta you for as long as you keep babbling your BS in this thread, because your opinion is so biased its not even close to being funny.


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## TheAxeMurderer (Oct 27, 2009)

wukkadb said:


> Mir's top win is his arm breaking of Sylvia, yet Sylvia sucks according to you. *Other than that, he beat Nog, who Fedor absolutely demolished twice*, and then beat Lesnar, after Lesnar had only *one* professional MMA fight.


Mir definitely beat nog more decisively that fedor ever did, specifically because nog had never been finished before mir.

That being said I dont know who would win between mir and fedor, but it would definately be a better fight than brett rogers imo


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

TheAxeMurderer said:


> Mir definitely beat nog more decisively that fedor ever did, specifically because nog had never been finished before mir.


He definitely did not beat Nog more decisively. First of all, Fedor fought him when Nog was the #1 HW in the world, and he was known for submitting everyone, yet Fedor took him to the ground, shook off every single submission, and beat the eff out of him for 3 rounds while in his guard(the supposedly most dangerous position of Nog's repetoire).

In the 2nd fight, he completely man-handled him again, out striking him the whole time, and tossing him around like a rag doll. Stopping someone does not mean it was a more decisive win, if anything, it makes it less decisive, especially when considering the type of fighter Rodrigo is.

Also, I don't like to use this excuse, but Nog was supposedly sick for this fight, and his performance was not nearly up to par with some of his better performances. The Nog-Mir stoppage was also questionable, and for sure would not have been stopped if it were in Pride. If he would have knocked Nog out it would have been different, but he didn't.


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

This isn't a thread about wether Fedor is #1 or not. This is a thread about Roflcopters bond between the ufc's nuts and himself.

You talk about Fedor fan boys? I think you need a reality check buddy.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Which is why 2 of my favorite fighters fight outside that organization...right....


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

wukkadb said:


> Two years ago no one even knew who Cain ro Carwin is, and now Fedor is ducking them, and they're top 5? Come on now. Cain couldn't even finish Kongo who was coming off a 3 week training camp, and Carwin has beaten *one* top guy in Gonzaga.
> 
> Mir's top win is his arm breaking of Sylvia, yet Sylvia sucks according to you. Other than that, he beat Nog, who Fedor absolutely demolished twice, and then beat Lesnar, after Lesnar had only *one* professional MMA fight.


 soirry but Mirs win over Nog was hella more impressive then any win Fedor had over him and would def be his biggest win to date, excuses by haters or not. Im not gonna argue the stuff, i always say the proof is in black and white AFTER you fight guys, if they fall off the planet and are never ranked again, you cant say you are fighting the best, if they go on to still beat most of the division, that says alot.

As for the arguement that only a few years ago Cain and Carwin were unheard of and Brock was 1-0 or w/e and only 4-1 now.... that's just further proof why Fedor IS NOT the top p4p and how weak the HW division has been, by far the weakest and guys can walk in with little to no MMA experience and pretty one dimensional and rise to the top in their late 20s, no other division is that easy to walk into and get to the top of.


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## vaj3000 (Dec 28, 2008)

alizio said:


> soirry but Mirs win over Nog was hella more impressive then any win Fedor had over him and would def be his biggest win to date, excuses by haters or not. Im not gonna argue the stuff, i always say the proof is in black and white AFTER you fight guys, if they fall off the planet and are never ranked again, you cant say you are fighting the best, if they go on to still beat most of the division, that says alot.
> 
> As for the arguement that only a few years ago Cain and Carwin were unheard of and Brock was 1-0 or w/e and only 4-1 now.... that's just further proof why Fedor IS NOT the top p4p and how weak the HW division has been, by far the weakest and guys can walk in with little to no MMA experience and pretty one dimensional and rise to the top in their late 20s, no other division is that easy to walk into and get to the top of.


Lol Ryo chonan beat anderson silva like no one has ever done but that hardly makes him great.

Mir beat:
A) An injured nog
B) past his peak nog

Also it will not happen again!...the winner of cain v nog will go one to become champ...mir (assuming he beats carwin) will only temprarily hold on to the belt!

So mir beat Kongo big effin deal..Kongo is shit anyway! All of a sudden hes the next big thing?


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## TheAxeMurderer (Oct 27, 2009)

vaj3000 said:


> Lol Ryo chonan beat anderson silva like no one has ever done but that hardly makes him great.
> 
> Mir beat:
> A) An injured nog
> ...


You know, I really do think mir will hold the belt at least until brock comes back. anything could happen but I think he will beat carwin, and I think his striking is too much for nog now and he is too well rounded for cain, imo


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

TheAxeMurderer said:


> You know, I really do think mir will hold the belt at least until brock comes back. anything could happen but I think he will beat carwin, and I think his striking is too much for nog now and he is too well rounded for cain, imo


Ah, but I have seen you hug Mirs nuts in other threads, so this opinion is somewhat biased correct? Mir will get past Carwin I am agreeing with you on that, but no way in HELL will he beat Nog if Big Nog comes into that fight 100%. Then again, I'm the guy who made a thread with a long list of reasons on why I thought Diego Sanchez would beat BJ Penn, and I picked Kongo over Mir, so what the hell do I know. :confused03:


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## D.P. (Oct 8, 2008)

Stokes said:


> Alright dude, you said I had a pointless statement so here we go. You obviously think that you have an arguement against FEDOR, which you dont, but I will argue my point against yours of thinking he is a "fraud."
> 
> First thing, lets look at their records. GSP is up first. He is 19-2 which is VERY, VERY impressive in his division because like you so kindly mentioned 20 times throughout this thread is stacked, and he has beaten almost everyone in it and all of the top contenders. However, he does have 2 very legit losses, on by submission to Matt Hughes, and one by KO to Matt Serra. So obviously, he is beatable and in both of his losses, he was finished. No decision involved.
> 
> ...


My God....what a beautiful post. raise01:


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## Chileandude (Jan 17, 2008)

the main reason Fedor hangs in my P4P lists are:


1.- He's small for his division.

2.- He has been great over a long span of time.

3.- He's very well rounded and shows great skill.

4.- He's undefeated, i'm no Fedor nuthugger but that loss is BS, it was a f***** illegal strike FFS.

Sure, ranking wise. GSP at 170 and Penn at 155 have been beating better competition lately and you can put them over Fedor in the P4P list, but to dismiss Fedor as a fraud is overkill.


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## TheAxeMurderer (Oct 27, 2009)

Stokes said:


> Ah, but I have seen you hug Mirs nuts in other threads, so this opinion is somewhat biased correct? Mir will get past Carwin I am agreeing with you on that, but no way in HELL will he beat Nog if Big Nog comes into that fight 100%. Then again, I'm the guy who made a thread with a long list of reasons on why I thought Diego Sanchez would beat BJ Penn, and I picked Kongo over Mir, so what the hell do I know. :confused03:


Maybe I am biased, although I am not saying that mir will 100% beat carwin, and im not saying he will definitely beat cain or nog either. 

I actually think carwin wil be mirs toughest test out of these 3, if anything just because he hits so hard. I don't know how mir will approach a fight with carwin, but im confident in one of my favorite fighters ability to overcome a challenge. 

IMO, not even just going off mir vs nog 1, nogs striking has always been alright, but nothing special, and unless he's taking his training with silva more seriously now I dont know how much he can improve. Mir's striking has been improving for a while, and just imo he knows not to go to the ground with nog, like he showed in the first fight.

I doubt nog has much of a chance of catching mir on the feet, unless he rocks him and gets on top I dont think he'll sub him either. I honestly see their 2nd fight going to a decision for mir.

and call me crazy but I dont think cains really proven himself yet. Maybe he'll wow me in the fight with nog, maybe not but I dont think his takedown ability is going to help him with mir, because mir has better standup, hits harder, and is more dangerous (IMO) on the ground, even from his back.

Although I may be a nuthugger, I try not to bias my opinions too much, this is just the way I see it, and I know that I could always be proven very wrong, this is mma after all, anything can happen.

Edit: also, I was more worried about diego tbh than any other fight bj has had at lightweight for quite some time, I think his focus and intensity got through to me during the countdown, and although I thought mir was going to beat kongo, I thought kongo was for sure going to give him a big challenge on the feet, and if they ever rematched I bet it would be a more competitive fight. I wouldnt discredit someones opinions based on who they've picked in the past, I picked hammill over jones for christs sake


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Xerxes said:


> Ever heard of Igor Vovchanchyn?
> 
> + Fujita and Don Frye were both good wins at that time.
> 
> ...


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Career records aren't a source of rankings. Someone could be 24-12403 and if they have 5 wins against top 10 fighters, will be ranked. I've been following P4P and weight rankings since MMA even existed.


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## Ivan (Feb 24, 2007)

Well Fedor has been kicking ass on all continents all these years while your boys have only fought here and there in the states and lost some .. he never lost anything really except maybe that ***** final recently..


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## out 4 the count (Oct 13, 2008)

alizio said:


> you clearly have no idea what p4p is... you keep saying if GSP moved up, if Silva moved up to fight Fedor.... LOL.... P4P was invented because there are weight classes for a reason, it's the same as saying, well the HW division has always been one of the weakest and the LHW division has always been one of the strongest.... why didnt Fedor move down?? Same silly arguement just reserved... well done. I bet Shane Carwin could beat GSP... best put him in the p4p... Frank Mir?? Ditto.... Hell i think Cain could beat GSP at HW. So what?? That's why we have divisions and thats why it's called POUND FOR POUND by your silly arguement the HW would always be number 1... let me guess the best boxer in the world is a HW too right?? I mean Manny or Pretty Boy couldnt beat a Klitchko so i guess he is the best too?? What a pathetic arguement.
> 
> Since you say Silva and Fedor are so close why doesnt Fedor move down to MW?? hahahahha or LHW?? Why should he have to?? He would be at a big disadvantage which is the reason for the P4P.
> 
> ...


That post is bad.

Did you not read it back to yourself before you typed it to realise what a dribbling mess it is?

Regardless of who is right or wrong in this debate where there is no right or wrongs, the other guys argument was so much more convincing I don't think he should even justify your nonsense with a reply.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

alizio said:


> Point taken. But nobody Fedor has fought recently is ranked (except Rogers, give that one fight and the hype is gone). How about those guys GSP has fought??
> 
> P4P isnt about history... *it's about RIGHT NOW. It's a "what have you done for me lately" award *and frankly, anybody comparing the last 3 years of Fedors inactivity and fighting very questionable ppl to GSPs fighting actively against guys that beat everybody else in the division..... seriously making a comparison?? It's not really even an arguement, it's in black and white.


Exactly, you cant keep going by what he did in pride 5 years ago shit! Look what Wandy did in pride but he came to the ufc instead of some weaker organization and lost. He could have pulled a Fraudur and kept winning but he came to fight in the UFC which has more of the best fighters than all other the orgs. put together. Fedor was definitely the best HW ever no doubt! But is he still the best right now? The way he looked against Rogers wasnt that great and he was getting beat by AA but AA did something stupid and left his chin exposed with his hands by his side when he threw that flying knee.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...I can't think of another fighter in MMA history right off hand that has won 31 fights *in a row* in 3 different MMA organizations & defended 2 of them. Then add in contract pressures & Barnett's little stunt. I don't know if it's a P4P thing, but certainly Fedor is clearly the most dominate HW in MMA history. Not nuthuggin'...just fact tellin...


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Fedor:

1. Undefeated for almost a decade.

2. Has beaten top ranked guys the entire duration of this decade win streak, most recently Arlovski (top 3 in many eyes when he fought him, definitely top 5), Sylvia (top 5 when he fought him), Rogers (top 10, borderline top 5).

3. He constantly, on a regular basis, fights guys much larger than he is, including Rogers, Arlovski, etc, who were much bigger, and continues to dominate them and go undefeated.

4. Many fighters themselves, including GSP, and BJ, state that Fedor is the best fighter in the world. Randy himself literally packed his bags, told the UFC he was done, so he could go and fight Fedor. It didn't work, but he tried for a year to get Fedor, to leave his UFC HW championship belt, so he could go and fight the greatest in the world.

Best pound for pound fighter at this very moment? It can be argued to no end, as pound for pound is always based on opinion. Most agree he is, but many also put Anderson there, or GSP there, he is definitely top 3.

Greatest Mixed Martial Artist that the sport has ever seen thus far? Yes, there is not doubting that.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm gonna put my two cents in on this, because I think TC went about it wrong.

The question isn't "Why was Fedor ever ranked #1", it's "Why is Fedor STILL ranked #1?" 

I agree with the ladder question entirely. Fedor is NOT fighting top competition and hasn't been (Outside of possibly arlovski who was ranked #4 at the time) for a little while. The last time he fought top competition from a guy at peak performance and beat him? Cro Cop in *2005*. The rest of them are decent (Hunt and Coleman) but not very highly skilled. Like TC said, Lindland was a damn middleweight and Choi, Sylvia and Rodgers were all basically cans. Choi has NEVER been ranked, Rodgers was barely top 10 and it was inflated at that, and Sylvia had dropped 2 of 3 and was never that great of a fighter IMO. 

Now when you look at dudes like GSP, he's been fighting the toughest competition available in Thiago (#3), Fitch(#2), BJ (#1 LW, #3-4 P4P). And before that he was fighting people like Hughes, Kos, BJ and Sherk. There's the loss to Serra, but he avenged that in devastating fashion. 

Then there's Silva, who's been fighting top competition in two weight classes and DESTROYING them. He also hasn't lost in what, 5 years? And he's been destroying guys like Forrest, Cote (say what you want, the man was getting toyed with), Lutter, Marquardt, Franklin and Henderson.

Given those facts, I don't see how it's possible to rank Fedor as #1 P4P in the world, and possibly even #1 HW in the world unless his competition increases DRASTICALLY soon. I think the only way that happens is he signs with the UFC, which he won't for some mysterious reason (I'm thinking it's for a multitude of them, one of them being that they wont change the rules for his fights like SF did).


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## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

BrutalKO said:


> ...I can't think of another fighter in MMA history right off hand that has won 31 fights *in a row* in 3 different MMA organizations & defended 2 of them. Then add in contract pressures & Barnett's little stunt. I don't know if it's a P4P thing, but certainly Fedor is clearly the most dominate HW in MMA history. Not nuthuggin'...just fact tellin...


yeah that sums it up, althoughm I want him to fight a Brock type in his prime but don't think that will happen now....


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

BrutalKO said:


> ...I can't think of another fighter in MMA history right off hand that has won 31 fights *in a row* in 3 different MMA organizations & defended 2 of them. Then add in contract pressures & Barnett's little stunt. I don't know if it's a P4P thing, but certainly Fedor is clearly the most dominate HW in MMA history. Not nuthuggin'...just fact tellin...


Don't forget to add that his 31 wins covers the course of almost a decade. He's been undefeated longer than most UFC HW fighters have even been fighting.

Also, don't forget to mention that his last 3 fighters were against two top 5 guys and a top 10, borderline top 5 guy, so he is still fighting top ranked competition when he does fight.

that about sums it up.

EDIT - Did I mention he has more wins than Brock, Carwin, and Cain have total fights combined? Yeah, that is correct.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> I agree with the ladder question entirely. Fedor is NOT fighting top competition and hasn't been (Outside of possibly arlovski who was ranked #4 at the time) for a little while. The last time he fought top competition from a guy at peak performance and beat him? Cro Cop in *2005*. The rest of them are decent (Hunt and Coleman) but not very highly skilled. Like TC said, Lindland was a damn middleweight and Choi, Sylvia and Rodgers were all basically cans. Choi has NEVER been ranked, Rodgers was barely top 10 and it was inflated at that, and Sylvia had dropped 2 of 3 and was never that great of a fighter IMO.


Lindland weighed in at 212 pounds for their weight, that's a heavyweight. Also, you saying Sylvia is a can makes you sound retarded.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

Sylvia was a can by the point in his career. Had he fought him three years ago when he was somewhat of a threat then maybe I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. Lindland is a MW, I don't care if he weighed in a 212 pounds, because he fights at middle weight. He is a TRUE middle weight. He wasn't even a big heavy weight at that, he's 6 lbs over the minimum -.-


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## vaj3000 (Dec 28, 2008)

TheAxeMurderer said:


> You know, I really do think mir will hold the belt at least until brock comes back. anything could happen but I think he will beat carwin, and I think his striking is too much for nog now and he is too well rounded for cain, imo


I honestly think that mir is a victim of circumstances and a series of fortunate freak occurences that have made him look a hell of alot better than he is (now this is my opinion)
The mir v nog fight is the only fight that has never made sense to me, when mir took out nog for me it was like someone telling me 'the earth is now a cube' and still to this day doesnt make sense. Ive accepted anderson silva's sparring match style KO of griffin and other mind bendingly great performances but not this one. Just remember this is the same mir that lost to vera and looked shit in some of his other comeback fights.

We are all admiring mir's stand up based on that one nog fight. Who cares if he beat cheick Kongo the dudes hopeless and dana knew this...its like bringing a knife to a gunfight. Mir is looking alot heavier nowadays and i bet his cardio still sucks.

I dont think he'll beat nog again and i certainly dont think he could beat cain because that dude is getting better and better and actually looks like a future champion.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

*Fedor fought:
*-Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira prior to the first Fedor fight was on a 13 figths winning streak and has a 19 wins and one loss record. 
-Brett Rogers was on a 10 fight winning streak and 0 losses to his name when he came up against Fedor.
-Andrei Arlovski he was on a 5 fight winning streak prior to Fedor. AA was 15-6 at the time.
-Tim Sylvia lost to Nog and Randy who many here regard as some of the greatest HW fighters in the UFC. At that time was on a 24-5 record.
-Matt Lindland prior to Fedor only had 1 loss on 10 fights, that loss came against one of the UFC's greatest (Rampage) and was through a split decision.
-Semmy Schilt's last 13 matches coming into the Fedor fight only had 1 loss and that was against Josh Barnett. 
-Renato Sobral coming into the Fedor fight was an experienced fighter with 19 wins and only 2 losses and that was against Overeem and Henderson (again two of the greats). 

*now lets look at Brock Lesnar:
*-Min-Soo Kim was on a 3 fights loosing streak coming into the Lesnar fight and at that time had only 2 wins and 5 losses under his name.
-Randy Couture was on a two fights winning streak coming into the Lesnar bout and had 16 wins and already 8 losses.
-Heath Herring during the Fedor fight had 20 wins and 8 losses. When Brock faced him Heath, Heath's last 9 fights resulted in 4 wins and 5 losses.
-Frank Mir was the best of the bunch.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Michael Carson said:


> Don't forget to add that his 31 wins covers the course of almost a decade. He's been undefeated longer than most UFC HW fighters have even been fighting.
> 
> Also, don't forget to mention that his last 3 fighters were against two top 5 guys and a top 10, borderline top 5 guy, so he is still fighting top ranked competition when he does fight.
> 
> ...


 i hate saying it over and over again, but he has a loss, one on his record {Kosaka) and one ive never heard one single fedor fan dispute was a HORRIBLE decision vs Arona. Either way you cut it, it's NOT 31 in a row, record wise it's 25 in a row (i dont include NC) and really less then that if you want to include Arona.

Is Fedor the greatest HW ever?? Yes, he is the best of the worst division and the most well rounded HW ever. Has he been the best fighter in MMA in the last couple years?? Prob not just based on competition and the strength of divisions but he is still top 5 which is amazing unless your a FEDOR IS GOD nuthugger and think anything but the number 1 spot is an insult.

Why is the poster above showing Fedor vs Brock numbers?? LOL nobody said Brock should be ranked higher in P4P atm.... let me share a secret with you?? Fedor was 4-1 in his 1st five fights aswell and none of those guys were close to the calibre of Mir or Randy except Arona and if you watch that fight you can clearly see he lost so really he should have been 3-2, does that take away from his greatness somehow?? If not, then stop saying Brock is 4-1 like it proves something, Fedor started his career with an identical record after 5 fights but really should have been 3-2


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Fedor's entire career has been very shady with the Russian Mafia being involved.

Also, lol at Lindland and Babalu. They aren't HWs, those should be easy wins for Fraudor. That's like Rashad Evans or Forrest fighting Lesnar.


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## Rockstar189 (Dec 14, 2006)

Arona beat him.....

I just watched the fight for the first time; Fedor got dominated through the fight but spent way less energy than Arona. I thought Arona won 100% when it went to the scorecards.....but they let it go one more round and Arona gasses via Fedor Sprawl

although Fedor won the conclusion of the fight, I dont believe he deserved that last round.

then again it is Japan and it was 2000


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

And funny enough, Arona isn't even a HW. That tells you a lot.


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## Ivan (Feb 24, 2007)

So he was out of that tournament after Kohsaka illegaly elbowed him.. reopened a cut from the fight with Arona.. i think i heard ppl saying he murdered Kohsaka in a rematch.. probably would do the same with Arona if given a chance.. then he came to Pride FC and the rest is history.. yes the same Pride Dana said he will keep alive .. ooo yess.. a fraud some would say..


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> I'm gonna put my two cents in on this, because I think TC went about it wrong.
> 
> The question isn't "Why was Fedor ever ranked #1", it's "Why is Fedor STILL ranked #1?"
> 
> ...


I had a ton more respect for your opinion until I read this... Saying somehow Forrest and Cote are tougher competition than Arlovski, Rogers, Sylvia etc? :confused05:

And then saying Fedor might not even be the #1 HW in the world. This is like, troll material here. Who do you put as #1 then?


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

alizio said:


> i hate saying it over and over again, but he has a loss, one on his record {Kosaka) and one ive never heard one single fedor fan dispute was a HORRIBLE decision vs Arona. Either way you cut it, it's NOT 31 in a row, record wise it's 25 in a row (i dont include NC) and really less then that if you want to include Arona.
> 
> Is Fedor the greatest HW ever?? Yes, he is the best of the worst division and the most well rounded HW ever. Has he been the best fighter in MMA in the last couple years?? Prob not just based on competition and the strength of divisions but he is still top 5 which is amazing unless your a FEDOR IS GOD nuthugger and think anything but the number 1 spot is an insult.
> 
> Why is the poster above showing Fedor vs Brock numbers?? LOL nobody said Brock should be ranked higher in P4P atm.... let me share a secret with you?? Fedor was 4-1 in his 1st five fights aswell and none of those guys were close to the calibre of Mir or Randy except Arona and if you watch that fight you can clearly see he lost so really he should have been 3-2, does that take away from his greatness somehow?? If not, then stop saying Brock is 4-1 like it proves something, Fedor started his career with an identical record after 5 fights but really should have been 3-2



So according top your eyes who is the number one, number two etc? Someone that has had many many looses and only fights local competition from the America's or someone like Fedor who fights fighters from all around the world, has fought many over a longer stretch etc?



Roflcopter said:


> Fedor's entire career has been very shady with the Russian Mafia being involved.
> 
> Also, lol at Lindland and Babalu. They aren't HWs, those should be easy wins for Fraudor. That's like Rashad Evans or Forrest fighting Lesnar.


Lindland and Babalu, I wonder what they weighed in at the fight. If they weighed it as a heavyweight then they are heavyweights. 

Its a bit like saying Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida are not Middleweight and light heavyweight champions simply because they do not walk around at 171 to 185 lbs and 186 to 205 lbs respectively.


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## TheAxeMurderer (Oct 27, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> Lindland and Babalu, I wonder what they weighed in at the fight. If they weighed it as a heavyweight then they are heavyweights.
> 
> Its a bit like saying Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida are not Middleweight and light heavyweight champions simply because they do not walk around at 171 to 185 lbs and 186 to 205 lbs respectively.


No, its like saying BJ penn isnt a welterweight because his frame is much too small and its hard for him to fight at 100% as a welter.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

monaroCountry said:


> *Fedor fought:
> *-Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira prior to the first Fedor fight was on a 13 figths winning streak and has a 19 wins and one loss record. *This was at Nog's peak, and arguably Fedor's, and FIVE YEARS AGO*
> -Brett Rogers was on a 10 fight winning streak and 0 losses to his name when he came up against Fedor.*Against who? Cans? Arlovski with his glass chin? Child please, Brett was a hype job if I've ever seen one*
> -Andrei Arlovski he was on a 5 fight winning streak prior to Fedor. AA was 15-6 at the time.*Yes he was, I agree with this statement. He was ranked top 5 HW, but he's also the ONLY ranked opponent Fedor has fought since CC*
> ...


*


The argument I'm trying to make isn't BROCK SI BETTAR THEN FADOR it's that Fedor has not fought top competition in a loooooooooooooong time.



Khov said:



I had a ton more respect for your opinion until I read this... Saying somehow Forrest and Cote are tougher competition than Arlovski, Rogers, Sylvia etc? 

And then saying Fedor might not even be the #1 HW in the world. This is like, troll material here. Who do you put as #1 then?

Click to expand...

LOL losing respect for having an opinion  Perhaps I rank fighters in a different fashion than you eh? 

Do I rank Fedor as the Greatest HW fighter of all time? Yes, without a doubt in my mind. He's also the best P4P fighter ever and the best martial artist to walk the planet.

Do I rank him as CURRENT #1? Yes and No, it's still a toss-up in my mind. The top 4 spots are highly contested right now between Nog, Mir, Lesnar and Fedor. Personally I don't like Lesnar being #1, but I'm going to put him there, with Fedor being right behind him. Then Mir, Then Nog. Remember these are CURRENT rankings, not all time. Fedor has not fought that high of a level of competition in his last 5 or so fights, anything before that is history. While Lesnar, being 4-1, Lost to someone ranked VERY high in the HW rankings in Mir (currently), Beat couture and Herring in Devastating fashion and then Avenged his loss to Mir in an even more dominating performance. The last really tough guy Fedor fought was Arlovski. Out of his last 5 fights he's the only person who was ranked top 5. Lesnar has 2 wins over ranked opponents. But he still has that loss too, which I could see putting him under Fedor.


Do I rank Fedor #1 P4P? **** no. Anderson gets that nod. Forrest is arguably just as good if not better than Andrei at that point in his career. If Forrest were to have fought AA before Fedor, I would've put my money on him. He has a much more well rounded game and FAR better game planning. Cote is miles ahead of Rogers as far as skill goes. Anderson ******* TOYED with him and absolutely humiliated Forrest, who was probably ranked, what, #3 at LHW in the world at that point? GSP destroyed the #2 WW in the world, Fitch, and the #3 or #2 WW in the world, Alves. From a P4P perspective, he beat the snot out of BJ, too, but I don't count that as much because BJ is, indeed, a LW.


As far as current rankings go (what I've been talking about) Fedor is very justifiably slipping in my opinion. Unlike the other fighters I'm ranking over him, he is not consistently fighting highly ranked competition and I don't see him doing it any time soon, as the other top 6 HWs in the world reside in the UFC. Overeem, strikeforce's highest ranking HW, its ranked at #7 last I checked. So if you're the champion, do you deserve to be a champion for thrashing on fighters that aren't even ranked Top 3 competition? How do you rank someone under Fedor that IS beating top 3 competition on a regular basis? It's the same as being a champion in a division, you fight the best fighters in the division to prove you're the champion, not people who are ranked far lower than others deserving it. That's exactly what Fedor is NOT doing in my opinion, and like HGOH's sig says, "Greatest" is not a permanent title, it must be constantly proven.*


----------



## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> The argument I'm trying to make isn't BROCK SI BETTAR THEN FADOR it's that Fedor has not fought top competition in a loooooooooooooong time.


Cause Rogers (#6), Arlovski (#3-5), Sylvia (#5) etc aren't top competition? Rogers was ranked higher than almost any HW in the UFC that Fedor could have fought, besides Mir and Lesnar. Who the hell did Mir just fight? Kongo? Give me a break.

Fedor is scheduled to face Overeem (top 10), Barnett (was ranked #2 before drugs), and possibly Werdum (top10). So I don't get your argument, and you're starting to look like a UFC fanboy.


And you have LESNAR ranked #1? Lesnar has lost relatively recently, isn't even FIGHTING right now, and has only EVER beat Herring, Couture, and Mir (1-1). You don't think Fedor could beat Mir and Couture? Unreal. Fedor destroyed Herring in his prime, easily dominated someone twice who easily dominated Couture. Fedor has beat higher ranked opponents RECENTLY and more convincingly without taking a single loss.


Cote is way ahead of Rogers...?! Who has Cote even beaten? Macdonald? He lost to Leben, Lutter, Ortiz... Rogers destroyed Arlovski in seconds his only loss is to the #1 HW in the world. Your argument here has like zero merit.


----------



## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> The argument I'm trying to make isn't BROCK SI BETTAR THEN FADOR it's that Fedor has not fought top competition in a loooooooooooooong time.




Fedor's last three fights has been against 2 ex UFC heavyweight champions who were in the top 5 at the time and also against 1 top 10 who was undefeated coming into the fight. 

Please check your info again!!!!!!!



> No, its like saying BJ penn isnt a welterweight because his frame is much too small and its hard for him to fight at 100% as a welter.


Unlike most other fighters Fedor's fighting weight is actually his normal weight. Unlike most fighters Fedor doesnt cut. If he really wanted to Fedor could walk around at 230 and cut to 208, in effect he is fighting above his weight.


----------



## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

Michael Carson said:


> Fedor:
> 
> 1. Undefeated for almost a decade.
> 
> ...


...Outstanding post. Numbers & facts never lie...


----------



## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> Cause Rogers (#6), Arlovski (#3-5), Sylvia (#5) etc aren't top competition? Rogers was ranked higher than almost any HW in the UFC that Fedor could have fought, besides Mir and Lesnar. Who the hell did Mir just fight? Kongo? Give me a break.
> 
> Fedor is scheduled to face Overeem (top 10), Barnett (was ranked #2 before drugs), and possibly Werdum (top10). So I don't get your argument, and you're starting to look like a UFC fanboy.
> 
> ...


I adressed that in the previous post, but the entire point is that they are either barely ranked top 5 or are not even close. The top 5 HW's in the world are Fedor, Nog, Carwin, Mir, Lesnar. Rogers at the time of his fight was ranked, I believe, 8th, under Allistair Overeem. So as long as Fedor is in strike force, he's not fighting top 5 competition in his next fight. It's not me being a fanboy, it's me stating rankings done by a whole slew of people in the MMA world.


EDIT: Monaro, being an Ex-Champ means you're exactly that,an EX-champ. Niether Sylvia or Arlovski could ever hope to even be in contention for a title in the UFC now (or when they left) let alone touch the gold. The reason they aren't champions now is because of the evolution of the game making them obsolete. Sylvia was horrid on the ground and the only thing Arlovski has going for him are his hands, just having hands won't cut it in today's level of MMA. It's exactly why the people you see at the top of the rankings are fighters with big skill sets and not fighters that can finish a fight with one punch.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> I adressed that in the previous post, but the entire point is that they are either barely ranked top 5 or are not even close. The top 5 HW's in the world are Fedor, Nog, Carwin, Mir, Lesnar. Rogers at the time of his fight was ranked, I believe, 8th, under Allistair Overeem. So as long as Fedor is in strike force, he's not fighting top 5 competition in his next fight. It's not me being a fanboy, it's me stating rankings done by a whole slew of people in the MMA world.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Monaro, being an Ex-Champ means you're exactly that,an EX-champ. Niether Sylvia or Arlovski could ever hope to even be in contention for a title in the UFC now (or when they left) let alone touch the gold. The reason they aren't champions now is because of the evolution of the game making them obsolete. Sylvia was horrid on the ground and the only thing Arlovski has going for him are his hands, just having hands won't cut it in today's level of MMA. It's exactly why the people you see at the top of the rankings are fighters with big skill sets and not fighters that can finish a fight with one punch.



Rogers was #6 by the MMA rankings that are posted here when they fought. And Arlovski won a gold medal in world combat ***** and has some of the most crisp boxing in MMA. It's pretty ridiculous to say he's one dimensional.

Plus you're forgetting that Lesnar lost to Mir and struggled with Randy, Fedor hasn't lost or struggled with anyone.


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## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

khoveraki said:


> Rogers was #6 by the MMA rankings that are posted here when they fought. And Arlovski won a gold medal in world combat ***** and has some of the most crisp boxing in MMA. It's pretty ridiculous to say he's one dimensional.
> 
> Plus you're forgetting that Lesnar lost to Mir and struggled with Randy, Fedor hasn't lost or struggled with anyone.


#6 is not top 5, let alone top 3 like champions SHOULD be fighting in my opinion. 

Lesnar also avenged his loss in a very dominant way and KO'd Randy. Randy never had him in trouble really,it just took him a bit to finish him, same thing with Rogers and Fedor.


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## BrutalKO (Oct 5, 2006)

...A final thought about Fedor. He will have his critics for the rest of his career. The best part about all of this is that Fedor continually proves them wrong. I can only imagine the trolling that will happen when Fedor (technically) gets his first real loss. He's already a living legend. It's too bad because Fedor brings class, humility, & domination to the sport like no other. Mr. Emelianenko wouldn't be a good poster-boy for MMA?


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

TraMaI said:


> Do I rank him as CURRENT #1? Yes and No, it's still a toss-up in my mind. The top 4 spots are highly contested right now between Nog, Mir, Lesnar and Fedor. Personally I don't _like_ Lesnar being #1, but I'm going to put him there, with Fedor being right behind him.


Lesnar is still a pup having only beaten 3 fighters and already recording a loss. He has won against 1 ex UFC champion (not including interim) thats way beyond his prime. 

Mir got the win through default by knocking out a sick Nog. Hasnt really fought anyone of note. Apart fron an interim UFC belt hasnt won any other belt from other organisations.

Nog IMO is the best the UFC has. *Nog got slaughtered by Fedor three times*. Fedor didnt bother fighting Nog standing up but too it to ground which is Nog's strength.

Randy has nearly as many losses as wins under his name. He is well past his prime and now wins just half of his more recent fights. Randy shouldnt be anywhere near the top 10 IMO.

Herring (prime) was stopped by Fedor in a bit over one round. Brock had a decision win over over the hill Heath, the fight lasted the whole three whole rounds. 



Last 5 fights for Fedor. All of these fighters have a better record than Randy Couture(17-10).
-Brett Rogers = top 10, undefeated
-Andrei Arlovski = top 5, ex UFC champ
-Tim Sylvia = top 5, ex UFC champ
-Hong-Man Choi = Ex K1 champ, average MMA fighter
-Matt Lindland = Ex Olympic wrestling silver medalist who was one of the UFC's best.




> Do I rank Fedor #1 P4P? **** no. Anderson gets that nod.


Anderson has been fighting a weak division filled with local products from the America's. If he (again) fought international competition then he would have lost many more times. 

All four of Andersons losses came from fights outside the UFC, three of these losses came from Japanese fighters (not from Canada, America or Brazil). 

Anderson Silva has lost against 4 fighters legitimately, Fedor has not. 













> It's the same as being a champion in a division, you fight the best fighters in the division to prove you're the champion, not people who are ranked far lower than others deserving it. That's exactly what Fedor is NOT doing in my opinion, and like HGOH's sig says, "Greatest" is not a permanent title, it must be constantly proven.


The greatest is a permanent title until that person gets beaten or no longer fights. For all these so called UFC greats to be called great, then they MUST fight Fedor who is regarded as the greatest P4P. Its NOT Fedor who should be doing the chasing but for the new upcomers.



BrutalKO said:


> ...A final thought about Fedor. He will have his critics for the rest of his career. The best part about all of this is that Fedor continually proves them wrong. I can only imagine the trolling that will happen when Fedor (technically) gets his first real loss. He's already a living legend. It's too bad because Fedor brings class, humility, & domination to the sport like no other. Mr. Emelianenko wouldn't be a good poster-boy for MMA?


No he wouldnt be a good poster boy for American MMA who is just all talk and no action. He is already a great role model for his Japanese, Korean, Asian, Russian and European fans. Fedor has already crossed the boundary of just being a great athlete to a great athlete/celebrity. For some reason I cant see the Japanese/Russians admiring a spluttering, howlering, and drooling Brock Lesnar.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Think again because the Japanese LOVE AMERICAN WRESTLERS!! And they loved Brock Lesnar when he was in Japan Pro Wrestling and toured the country.... Japanese love Bobb Sapp too and it isnt for his humility either. O well, your opinioin is usually based on some lingering anti UFC and anti american resentment, i feel bad if you have an inferiority complex or something but there is no need to continually put either down. The WORLD loves entertainers, was Ali just a humble boxer?? Was Jordan just a modest ball player?? Is Kobe?? Get real and stop being anti american, it's ridiculous.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

alizio said:


> Think again because the Japanese LOVE AMERICAN WRESTLERS!! And they loved Brock Lesnar when he was in Japan Pro Wrestling and toured the country....


How relevant is Brock now outside America? how many comercials and accolades has he gotten outside of America?

The Japanese loved (I say loved) Pro Wrestling, especially when they have their own organisation. The same as Sapp now who mainly fights within the Japanese orgs.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

lol...Fraudor's fighting Werdum now.

You guys go ahead and prepare a speech on how this is a quality win.

Even though it's clearly more padding from the Fraud.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> lol...Fraudor's fighting Werdum now.
> 
> You guys go ahead and prepare a speech on how this is a quality win.
> 
> Even though it's clearly more padding from the Fraud.


Why would he have fought a guy with easy KO power in both hands and a huge reach if he was trying to pad his record? Werdum is simply the reasonable path to a title shot in Overeem. And Overeem is way more dangerous to Fedor than Lesnar or Mir, so I don't see where you get this "padding his record" shit from.


Let me guess though... you read a lot of tabloids and believe every word? Seems like every random MMA rumor you here you buy into 100%.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Overeem sucks.

How deluded are you if you think he's in the same league as Lesnar or even Mir?

A guy who spent his whole career being owned by Light Heavyweights, except little Belfort who was forced to come up to Heavy, is a bigger threat than a natural 265er. Meanwhile, another 265er gives Fraudor fits with absolutely no skill or fighting background whatsoever and said 265er is now a supposedly top 10 HW. 

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Overeem sucks.
> 
> How deluded are you if you think he's in the same league as Lesnar or even Mir?
> 
> ...


How deluded you are to think that Mir and Lesnar is as good as Overeem, Overeem is easily far more experienced/better in MMA and also far more experienced/better in his standup than Lesnar and Mir combined. I cant even recall Lesnar kicking or being any good at boxing, all he has shown is a willingness to GnP. No, Overeem is a far better fighter than both Brock and Mir.

Overeem fought LHW's because he was that weight before. He has grown, matured and developed. Strengthwise I dont doubt that Overeem is as strong if not stronger than Brock.











Roflcopter said:


> lol...Fraudor's fighting Werdum now.
> 
> You guys go ahead and prepare a speech on how this is a quality win.
> 
> Even though it's clearly more padding from the Fraud.




Werdum won his last fight against Antonio Silva on the same card as Fedor v Rogers. At least Strikeforce has an actual elimination/round robbin type system where 4 opponents fights, the two winners fight each other. 

Dan Henderson left the UFC because of its id10tic matchups, where the most deserving gets overlooked by an unproven fighter.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

monaroCountry said:


> How deluded you are to think that Mir and Lesnar is as good as Overeem, Overeem is easily far more experienced/better in MMA and also far more experienced/better in his standup than Lesnar and Mir combined. I cant even recall Lesnar kicking or being any good at boxing, all he has shown is a willingness to GnP. No, Overeem is a far better fighter than both Brock and Mir.
> 
> Overeem fought LHW's because he was that weight before. He has grown, matured and developed. Strengthwise I dont doubt that Overeem is as strong if not stronger than Brock.



:laugh: Your reputation suits you. 

Overeem is easily the most overrated fighter in MMA. At least Fraudor has immense skills to back up his less than stellar resume. Overeem just got owned by every single LHW besides Belfort whos best weight is 185. Shogun twice, Lil Nog twice, Chuck Liddell, Arona, Werdum, the list goes on and on with this bum. Just because he's on steroids doesn't mean he's stronger than Lesnar. He doesn't even weigh in at the maximum for god sake. And let's not forget the roiding bum's resume at HW. An astonishing, eye opening win OVER.....Paul Buentello? 

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

wait so the number 1 HW and p4p is fighting the number 10 HW (werdum) in order to get a shot at the number 9 HW (Overeem) even tho Overeem wont fight in America because the entire world knows he is on roids, he has no real legit ground game to speak off except powerful chokes (yea ur catching Mir or Lesnar in a choke) and he cant really stop top notch wrestling TDs (thats why he stays in japan and k1).

Now Overeem, the guy who cant beat the top LHWs is better then Mir and Lesnar?? Wow it keeps getting better and better and more and more delusional.

Everybody cries that GSP is fighting Hardy only because he already beat the other top 5 lol.... but the supposed number 1 Hw is lining up fights with newly ranked fighters in the lower portion of the top 10?? AWESOME!!!

Get off the drugs!!! I mean Overeem not you


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

MMAWeekly

#1 Welterweight Fighter in the World: Georges St. Pierre

2. Jon Fitch(destroyed)

3. Thiago Alves(lost every round)

4. Josh Koscheck(owned)

5. Matt Hughes(owned..twice)

6. Paul Daley(probably next in line if he beats Hazelett)

7. Dan Hardy(next in line, and everyone knows he will be destroyed and GSP will probably fight Kos agian or Daley)

8. Paulo Thiago

9. Martin Kampmann

10. Carlos Condit

Rankings suck though, Nick Diaz should be in over Kampmann, and no Jake Sheilds or Zaromskis?

#1 Heavyweight Fighter in the World: Fedor Emelianenko

2. Brock Lesnar(ducking UFC)

3. Frank Mir(ducking UFC)

4. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira(yes, about 5 years ago)

5. Cain Velasquez(ducking UFC)

6. Junior Dos Santos(ducking UFC)

7. Brett Rogers(lol)

8. Shane Carwin (ducking UFC)

9. Fabricio Werdum(next in line, meanwhile 6 guys ahead of him are being ducked)

10. Alistair Overeem (lol, and no)


Fraudor is so cool.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> :laugh: Your reputation suits you.
> 
> Overeem is easily the most overrated fighter in MMA. At least Fraudor has immense skills to back up his less than stellar resume. Overeem just got owned by every single LHW besides Belfort whos best weight is 185. Shogun twice, Lil Nog twice, Chuck Liddell, Arona, Werdum, the list goes on and on with this bum. Just because he's on steroids doesn't mean he's stronger than Lesnar. He doesn't even weigh in at the maximum for god sake. And let's not forget the roiding bum's resume at HW. An astonishing, eye opening win OVER.....Paul Buentello?
> 
> :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:



Yeah agreed, let's totally write off a seasoned veteran who's immensely strong, has world-class striking, unreal cage control, and great take-down defense. :confused05:


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> Yeah agreed, let's totally write off a seasoned veteran who's immensely strong, has world-class striking, unreal cage control, and great take-down defense. :confused05:


Except those characteristics are exaggerated.

Unless you'd like to use information and facts to base them off of. Which you never do. Or you do it with irrelevant, stupid shit like "he's fought international competition"

:laugh:

Hell, Randleman and Sokoudjou had immense physical characteristics, good skills in certain areas, and had better resumes than Overeem. 

Randleman even KTFO Cro Cop in his prime.

Still didn't stop them from being shitty fighters. :laugh:


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Except those characteristics are exaggerated.
> 
> Unless you'd like to use information and facts to base them off of. Which you never do. Or you do it with irrelevant, stupid shit like "he's fought international competition"
> 
> ...



You've got me confused guy, I cite most things I say with facts and articles. Monaro is the one who whines on about international competition. 

You're pretty clearly someone who'd rather read on wikipedia what a fighter is like, rather than seek to understand fighting and then watch, you know, actual fights? 


Overeem has been dominating in his K1 career, beating the legends in Hari and Aerts (and, in my opinion, defeating Bonjaski). He's also had like six fights in the last month or two, and has dominated everyone he's faced since he moved to HW; except for Kharitonov - he was easily dominating in that fight until the very last seconds.


Writing off guys like Overeem then giving oodles of credit to someone like Carwin proves just how insightful you are.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Except those characteristics are exaggerated.
> 
> Unless you'd like to use information and facts to base them off of. Which you never do. Or you do it with irrelevant, stupid shit like "he's fought international competition"
> 
> ...



FACT
Alistair Overeem has 31 wins and 11 losses, and has fought 43 times. He is therefor more experienced in fighting than Brock, Mir, and even old man Randy.

FACT
He has won 19 times by submission and 11 by KO. which again puts him ahead of Mir, Lesnar and old man Randy.

FACT
Has has been brave enough to challenge himself in other deciplines at an international level and has fought 9 times in K1 kickboxing. 

FACT
Overeem has also been fighting top international fighters and not just restrict himself to some bunch of Canadians, Brazilians and Americans.

FACT
He has been on a 6 fight winning streak (discounting the NC). Which is far better than Mir, Lesnar and old man Randy.

-------------------------------------


SPECULATION/OPINION

SPECULATION
Overeem has taken an illegal substance for his weight and size gain, and the reason why he wont fight in America.

OPINION
Overeem is over rated.

OPINION
Lesnar and Mir cant or wont be choked out by someone like Overeem.

OPINION
Lesnar (4-1) is better and more experienced than Overeem (31-11).

OPINION
Overeem has no real legit ground game to speak off.
NOTE: Your forgetting the fect that AO has 19 submission wins including through several Armbars, several Armlock, a Keylock, and several Kimuras.

Now show me Brock's submission repertoire and how extensive it is.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Yeah, all that K1 shit and quantity over quality stuff is cute, but won't get you anywhere in a real debate. Let's keep this short and sweed.

FACT
Overeem has not defeated a single HW within the top 25, and that might be being generous.


Nuff said.


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## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Yeah, all that K1 shit and quantity over quality stuff is cute, but won't get you anywhere in a real debate. Let's keep this short and sweed.
> 
> FACT
> *Overeem has not defeated a single HW within the top 25, and that might be being generous.*
> ...


Once again, opinion. Do you ever base any of your arguments off facts? Just wondering?


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## wakeboy (Sep 14, 2009)

Stokes said:


> Once again, opinion. Do you ever base any of your arguments off facts? Just wondering?


how is that an opinion.... unless you can go and tell him someone that overeem beat that was in the top 25 its a fact...


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

wakeboy said:


> how is that an opinion.... unless you can go and tell him someone that overeem beat that was in the top 25 its a fact...


Buentello was just coming off a title fight in the UFC before he fought Overeem in 2007, he was ranked top 15.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

oh he has a win over the headhunter???.... enough said, he should be top 3 sfobv.... so should struve i guess... hahahahahaha

Cain beat two top 15-20s (depending on the ranking) and is undefeated, yet Khov says he shouldnt be ranked and he is nothing.... but Overeem beat the headhunter, a nightmare matchup for Cain... hahaha so obv he should be top 10, right?? i mean its not like he has lost to every decent LHW he has faced.... oh wait he has... nevermind HW


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## HCbreaker (Aug 21, 2009)

LMAO. This has turned into a "I'm right and anyone that doesn't think so is a Fedor nuthugger" thread. Peace guys.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

khoveraki said:


> Buentello was just coming off a title fight in the UFC before he fought Overeem in 2007, he was ranked top 15.


Source? Buentello has been and a shitty fighter and I highly doubt he was top 15 after being KTFO in 15 seconds by AA. Getting a title shot doesn't make you top 15. Thales Leites got a title shot ffs. Buentello got murdered by AA, then proceeded to beat the mighty Tank Abbot before losing to shitty Overeem.

Overeem again, hasn't even beaten good LHWs, let alone Heavies.


----------



## js1316 (Jun 17, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Source? Buentello has been and a shitty fighter and I highly doubt he was top 15 after being KTFO in 15 seconds by AA. Getting a title shot doesn't make you top 15. Thales Leites got a title shot ffs. Buentello got murdered by AA, then proceeded to beat the mighty Tank Abbot before losing to shitty Overeem.
> 
> Overeem again, hasn't even beaten good LHWs, let alone Heavies.


HOW did this thread get from Fedor not being number 1 P4P to Overeem sucks? Maybe because you ran out of things to say against Fedor so you had to jump onto Overeem?

This thread is dead. You're racking up your post count just babbling on about non-sense. Did you even bother to read my arguement against you? Bet you didn't, because you didn't reply to it.

http://www.mmaforum.com/general-mma-discussion/68391-why-fedor-regarded-p4p-number-1-a-6.html


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Source? Buentello has been and a shitty fighter and I highly doubt he was top 15 after being KTFO in 15 seconds by AA. Getting a title shot doesn't make you top 15. Thales Leites got a title shot ffs. Buentello got murdered by AA, then proceeded to beat the mighty Tank Abbot before losing to shitty Overeem.
> 
> Overeem again, hasn't even beaten good LHWs, let alone Heavies.


 
Roflcopter..you need to be slightly less confrontational with your posts and make sure you show the respect you want to be treated with, you are totally welcome here but your last several posts not just on this thread are condescending and we try to strive for better than that....




Stokes said:


> HOW did this thread get from Fedor not being number 1 P4P to Overeem sucks? Maybe because you ran out of things to say against Fedor so you had to jump onto Overeem?
> 
> This thread is dead. You're racking up your post count just babbling on about non-sense. Did you even bother to read my arguement against you? Bet you didn't, because you didn't reply to it.
> 
> http://www.mmaforum.com/general-mma-discussion/68391-why-fedor-regarded-p4p-number-1-a-6.html


 
Stop arguing and just go in another direction Stokes....:thumbsup:

Done!!!! Addressed.....Change the Avy.....:angry01:


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Yeah, all that K1 shit and quantity over quality stuff is cute, but won't get you anywhere in a real debate. Let's keep this short and sweed.
> 
> FACT
> Overeem has not defeated a single HW within the top 25, and that might be being generous.
> ...




Who creates these ranking system? The UFC/Americans has its own ranking system, the Japanese has its own system. For example who is to say that the number 1 MMA fighter in Japan is any better or worse than an MMA fighter in America?

The only way and the best way to get a clearer picture of fighter ranking would be to look at their fight record. Figthers must fight according to that record and not be gifted fights like Lesnar.I mean come on the guy only has two/three previous MMA fights before given a chance for the championship, who knows if Nog woulod have beaten Lesnar.


----------



## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

coldcall420 said:


> Roflcopter..you need to be slightly less confrontational with your posts and make sure you show the respect you want to be treated with, you are totally welcome here but your last several posts not just on this thread are condescending and we try to strive for better than that....
> Its impossible to be completely civil in almost any Fedor thread. The problems always gonna be is Fedor the best heavyweight? And the answer to the non Fedor NHrs is always gonna be 'who has he fought lately? While on the other end of the argument is 'hes allready fought and beaten the best' which is true. But where does he stand now is the question, which wont be answered cause he is in an organization that doesnt have the toughest tests for him. And no matter what people say its pretty much a fact that the talent pool in the UFC HW division is alot deeper than SF. And that has nothing to do with being pro american and thinking america ONLY has the best fighters cause everybody on here knows thats not true. As far as Overeem goes hes a great fighter with 11 losses. Hes also very suspect to being on the juice, which I think he is cause nobody grows like that.


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## wakeboy (Sep 14, 2009)

lmao im assuming it was you stokes, who negged repped me for exposing you that you don't know the difference between a fact and an opinion... whoever it was is realllllly mature flaming me in that little comment section "your posts are shitty and your rep is shity" or something along those lines... seriously grow up

dont get me wrong i think fedor is an amazing mma fighter but hes just not pvp #1 in my books anymore i just dont know if he could hang around with the new heavyweights that weigh in at around 265 and move like welterweights...

i personally think if fedor and anderson silva fought at 205 anderson silva would win... my opinion prob going to get neg repped lmao


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

wakeboy said:


> lmao im assuming it was you stokes, who negged repped me for exposing you that you don't know the difference between a fact and an opinion... whoever it was is realllllly mature flaming me in that little comment section "your posts are shitty and your rep is shity" or something along those lines... seriously grow up
> 
> dont get me wrong i think fedor is an amazing mma fighter but hes just not pvp #1 in my books anymore i just dont know if he could hang around with the new heavyweights that weigh in at around 265 and move like welterweights...
> 
> i personally think if fedor and anderson silva fought at 205 anderson silva would win... my opinion prob going to get neg repped lmao


Hard to argue with Fraudor nuthuggers when they say things like "Gary Goodridge is a beast"

Like...I may as well be arguing with someone who thinks Rosie O Donnel is attractive.


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

I think it might be hard to have a civil argument when you immediately start your argument with an unnecessary insult of the fighter. Frauder and Fleeota? Really? That is a big reason why your arguments aren't taken too seriously.


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## wakeboy (Sep 14, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Hard to argue with Fraudor nuthuggers when they say things like "Gary Goodridge is a beast"
> 
> Like...I may as well be arguing with someone who thinks Rosie O Donnel is attractive.


lmfao i know exactly what you mean... my friends like omg he survived kevin randlemen slamming him on his head... im like yea but kevin randlemens shit and hes half as strong as brock, if brock was slamming him he would probably be paralyzed... my friends like wtf are you talking about you know nothing about mma cause u said kevin randlemen was shit and i just laughed ahahahah

people don't realize that fedor is a world class fighter and hes suppose to beat all of these guys, sure i give him credit that he does, but he doesnt come out and dominate people that their suppose to beat like anderson silva gsp and bj penn


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Davisty69 said:


> I think it might be hard to have a civil argument when you immediately start your argument with an unnecessary insult of the fighter. Frauder and Fleeota? Really? That is a big reason why your arguments aren't taken too seriously.


Coming from people who think highly of Gary Goodridge and Paul Buentello, I could care less if I'm taken seriously. Wouldn't surprise me if I started hearing praise for Tank Abbott soon. I'll lead that bandwagon all day. :laugh:


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

Roflcopter said:


> Coming from people who think highly of Gary Goodridge and Paul Buentello, I could care less if I'm taken seriously. Wouldn't surprise me if I started hearing praise for Tank Abbott soon. I'll lead that bandwagon all day. :laugh:


Mature as usual.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

> stand now is the question, which wont be answered cause he is in an organization that doesnt have the toughest tests for him. And no matter what people say its pretty much a fact that the talent pool in the UFC HW division is alot deeper than SF. And that has nothing to do with being pro american and thinking america ONLY has the best fighters cause everybody on here knows thats not true. As far as Overeem goes hes a great fighter with 11 losses. Hes also very suspect to being on the juice, which I think he is cause nobody grows like that.




Alistair Overeem - 31 wins and 11 losses
Randy Couture - 17 wins and 10 losses

Yet Randy is a hall of famer and regarded by UFC nuthuggers as a P4P best while Overeem is a can? 

The talent pool is NOT with the UFC, who do they have Mir, Brock, Randy, Heath, Nog? Brock has already decimated two in that list. Fedor has also decimated 5 other UFC Champions. Fedor has the ability to not just fight in Strikeforce but fight in other organisations, he is basically fighting the best from several org and not just one org like Brock.

Where im sitting it looks like Americans ranking who they know as the best, also looks like they think that they have the best fighters. Where in reality most of its (UFC) champions only fight amongs other fighters from the America's and not fight the world talent pool of fighters.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

monaroCountry said:


> Alistair Overeem - 31 wins and 11 losses
> Randy Couture - 17 wins and 10 losses
> 
> Yet Randy is a hall of famer and regarded by UFC nuthuggers as a P4P best while Overeem is a can?
> ...


Why do you keep using Randy and Heath for your arguments? Heath has never been touted for being a threat to the HW division. And Randy is not of relevance anymore to the title in any weight class. But Id take Randy to beat up Rogers still to this day and possibly Werdum too. Who do you think would win in a Lesner vs overeem fight. Id say brock would take him down and hurt him. And im sure the odds would favor Brock in ANY country.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

monaroCountry said:


> Alistair Overeem - 31 wins and 11 losses
> Randy Couture - 17 wins and 10 losses
> 
> Yet Randy is a hall of famer and regarded by UFC nuthuggers as a P4P best while Overeem is a can?
> ...


Brian Nielsen - 64 wins and 2 losses
Muhammed Ali - 56 wins and 5 losses


And of course, Nielsen fought more international competition. 

See, I can do it too. :laugh:


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## Machida Karate (Nov 30, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> FACT
> Alistair Overeem has 31 wins and 11 losses, and has fought 43 times. He is therefor more experienced in fighting than Brock, Mir, and even old man Randy.
> 
> FACT
> ...



I don't understand how this is suppose to be a good point.... Fact your simple minded Fact you dont think...... " FACT
He has won 19 times by submission and 11 by KO. which again puts him ahead of Mir, Lesnar and old man Randy" Just because A guy fights A LOT less compitition doesn't mean SHIT.... Do u think like they don't do crap all day then just JUMP and fight? Like just because Overeem has more Submissions then Mir DOESN'T MEAN CRAP! What DOES MEAN CRAP IS WHO HAVE THEY FOUGHT! If Brock Lesnar fought all the same retards Overeem fought he would be UNDEFEATED, He only MAN HANDLES EVERYONE, people like Heath Hearing that put up a fight against all the best in the world, gets controled for 3 rounds like a Grown Man vs a Child.... If Mir fought all the same Non compitiion as Overeem he would of Submitted more.... SO WHO CARES THAT DOESN'T MEAN CRAP.... Your compairing guys that fought 99% of there fights in the Highes Calibur orginization.... Overeem would be killed by ether guy ANY DAY


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

How did this switch to Randy vs. Overeem and why are people taking him seriously?


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## Dream-On-101 (Jun 4, 2009)

This is clearly a touchy subject, as it is going to be because it is by its nature an almost entirely opinion based topic. 

I think Fedor is the greatest MMA fighter in the world, in that he feel he has the strongest and most complete skill set. I cant see who could beat him. However, i dont rate him as the number 1 P4P. I actually have him 3rd, behind AS and GSP, as they have fought higher level talent in recent years. But, I genuinely believe Fedor would beat everything the UFC has to offer. 

As of late, its hard to claim that Fedors wins have been 'top tier' fighters, with the exception of Arlovski. But Fedor is clearly such a complete fighter (more so than AS may i add, its closer between him and GSP) that it is hard to argue that anyone could, at the present time, beat him. 

Fedor, Anderson and GSP are the best fighters in their weight class, as has been proven over the last several years. Were you would place them in the ridiculous P4P list is entirely up to you.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Davisty69 said:


> How did this switch to Randy vs. Overeem and why are people taking him seriously?


Because I speak the truth.



Dream-On-101 said:


> This is clearly a touchy subject, as it is going to be because it is by its nature an almost entirely opinion based topic.
> 
> I think Fedor is the greatest MMA fighter in the world, in that he feel he has the strongest and most complete skill set. I cant see who could beat him. However, i dont rate him as the number 1 P4P. I actually have him 3rd, behind AS and GSP, as they have fought higher level talent in recent years. But, I genuinely believe Fedor would beat everything the UFC has to offer.
> 
> ...


He *could* be the best HW in the world. He sure looks like it, but anyone can look like the best fighter in the world facing tire changers and part time fighters and freak shows. King Mo looks like a monster right now, as does Jon Jones, but what does everyone say about them "let's see how they do against better competition before jumping the gun" yet this somehow doesn't apply to Fraudor? Dana White offered him one of the biggest contracts in MMA, Fraudor's previous excuse to duck the UFC was granted, and he found another one to continue ducking anyone in the top 5 at the interest of his pocket and ""legacy". He's got people fooled so much that his nuthuggers are calling Gary Goodridge a quality fighter, it's pretty absurd.


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## Dream-On-101 (Jun 4, 2009)

Roflcopter said:


> Because I speak the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> He *could* be the best HW in the world. He sure looks like it, but anyone can look like the best fighter in the world facing tire changers and part time fighters and freak shows. King Mo looks like a monster right now, as does Jon Jones, but what does everyone say about them "let's see how they do against better competition before jumping the gun" yet this somehow doesn't apply to Fraudor? Dana White offered him one of the biggest contracts in MMA, Fraudor's previous excuse to duck the UFC was granted, and he found another one to continue ducking anyone in the top 5 at the interest of his pocket and ""legacy". *He's got people fooled so much that his nuthuggers are calling Gary Goodridge a quality fighter, it's pretty absurd*.



I think this is a good example of how extreme peoples opinions of Fedor are. I am by no means a nuthugger; i do consider him the best in the word, but i can also see how some might perceive his record to be somewhat 'padded'.

By the way, i am not convinced calling him 'Fraudor' overly assists your argument. Just saying. 

At the end of the day, some might claim that Fedor is ducking the best. Not true, he fought Cro Cop and Nog when they where 'the best'. And he didnt have any real problems with either of them. Where Brock to leave the UFC (obviously not going to happen, just saying) he would NOT be afraid to fight them.

Fedor will one day come to the UFC (i'm fairly sure) and cement his place as the greatest of all time. Until then, obviously the speculation will continue. But at this point i will base my beliefs of his superiority on him beating a selection of great heavyweights combined with showcasing elite level abilities in all areas of the game.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Dream-On-101 said:


> I think this is a good example of how extreme peoples opinions of Fedor are. I am by no means a nuthugger; i do consider him the best in the word, but i can also see how some might perceive his record to be somewhat 'padded'.
> 
> By the way, i am not convinced calling him 'Fraudor' overly assists your argument. Just saying.
> 
> ...


It's incredibly padded. He has wins over guys like Choi, Zulu, Ogowa, Lindland(laughably small) and the list goes on and on. I'll call him a good heavyweight, but P4P best in the world makes me laugh until he fights top 5 heavyweights. Honestly, should be fighting top 3. I've never seen GSP fight anyone less than the guy right under him unless he had already beaten them, or that one stipulation of the TUF season where Matt Serra got a shot. Fraudor doesn't even fight within the top 5.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

do you know why Randy was HW champion longer then LHW?? BECAUSE THE DIVISION IS WEAKER!!!!! 

I hate hearing so and so (Silva or GSP) should move up if they wanna prove they are p4p....

Im sick of hearing "fedor is so great because he beats ppl bigger then him, he is a very small HW"......

The HW division has ALWAYS been the weakest, full of one dimensional wrestlers/bjj guys with limited striking or strikers with limited ground games. Its coming around now but still at the top are guys pretty one dimensional.

Fedor is the most rounded HW ever. By no means the most rounded MMArtist ever. He is the best of the weakest division.

I say this to ppl saying Silva or Penn or GSP need to step up weight to prove something..... why doesnt Fedor step down to LHW if he is such a small HW?? Hasnt there always been bigger challenges there anyways?? More well rounded guys and more long standing top guys (the HW division is so weak a guy you never heard of could be top 3-5 a year from now).

So in conclusion, if you think anybody needs to move up to prove something, i say Fedor needs to move down, or like Randy does he know he is much more competitive at HW where guys arent nearly as well rounded or have cardio??

Randy hung in with Brock decently, he went 3 rounds with Big Nog recently (altho he lost every round imo he did have his moments and Nog is def top5 HW).... he barely beat and looked horrible vs Vera , a non ranked LHW who has never been a threat in any division for a title.

The way SF is set up, after Werdum and Overeem they better pray Lashley beats up Big Foot or somebody but even after Lashley, whos left?? We gonna inflate Lashleys rankings in time for the Fedor fight?? Either come to the UFC or move down to LHW and fight Gegard ;P


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

alizio said:


> do you know why Randy was HW champion longer then LHW?? BECAUSE THE DIVISION IS WEAKER!!!!!
> 
> I hate hearing so and so (Silva or GSP) should move up if they wanna prove they are p4p....
> 
> ...


Precisely, Rogers beat 8 cans and flash KO'd AA and all of a sudden he is the 2nd coming. By that logic Jake O Brien was top 10 when he beat Heath Herring to improve to 10-0. 
But he wasn't, because the UFC has a pretty decent HW division and doesn't need to hype shitty fighters to sell tickets. Rogers will lose several of his next few fights. Book it.


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## wakeboy (Sep 14, 2009)

Davisty69 said:


> How did this switch to Randy vs. Overeem and why are people taking him seriously?


are you serious right now? Dont insult others opinions because they conflict with yours,because this may be a new concept to you, but not everyone jumps on a hype train. Let me guess your also a fan of lyoto machida? Guess what hes also OVERRATED. You probably think he has killer knockout power and has liek the best g4m3 pl4ns evar, hes so good he like never gets hit!!!!!!

roflcopter, aliziuo and i have all stated valid points and arguments on and you seriously have the nerve to say why are people taking roflcopter seriously? Do you think your mr noitall because your a forum mod here? 

Let me break something down to some people here because a lot of people obviously don't understand sport concepts. TO BE THE BEST YOU HAVE TO BEAT THE BEST. Fedor is an AMAZING FIGHTER, dont get me wrong. However half of his fights have come against lower class opponents and which HE SHOULD WIN. Its like take a nhl, nba, mlb etc team and making them play against their respective farm team. At the end of the day the professional sports team should win that match. Which is why its no suprise that fedor has a record of 31-1. 

Something a lot of you guys that are arguing fedor is still pvp #1 are forgetting that precedent doesn't matter as much. Beating a top opponent 5 years ago (nog and cro cop) doesn't mean he could still do it today, because factors like age come into play. Its essentially like saying the detroit red wings 5 years ago, could come back and win the stanley cup this year. But you can't make that statement because THINGS CHANGE.

Think of what you guys are saying when you say hes beat ex heavyweight champions. Key word being EX, sorry to break it to you but that means they lose to someone better than them. If these ex ufc champs were sooo amazing dont you think the ufc wouldve went to greater extents to bring them back to the ufc? Guess what, they were champs in the weakest division in the sport, but thats now changed. With the recent up and coming heavyweights in the ufc arlvoski and slyvia wouldnt even be contenders? So how does by beating heavyweights that used to be ranked in the top 10 put you as #1 pvp, if arlovski and sylvia were so good they should still be in the to 10 for heavyweights, but guess what they arent and within a year both dropped out of the top 10 for heavyweights. How much can really change in that short period of time? Sure he beat rogers, who beat a whole bunch of nobodies and mr glass chin himself aka arlovski to be ranked 7th. Rather than gsp im not even going to elaborate all of his fights have been against contenders besides matt serra.

clifff notes for those who dont want to read

-fedor good fighter, fights fighter below his skill level. 
-if arlovski sylvia are such great fighters why did the ufc let them go? Because they were ex champs of the weakest division... they had boosted records and look were they are now... looks like the ufc made the right decision seeing as how they wouldnt be able to hang with the new up and comers
-going by your logic gsps last five fights ahve been against top 10 opponents since matt serra won the belt therefore he must be top 10 since he has the belt right? including wins over #5 pvp fighter in the world bj penn #7 jon fitch and some people put thiago alves as #10. so thats 3 ranked pvp fighters, has fedor beat anyone hes been ranked on the pvp list, not sure if nog and crocop were ranked back then... didnt watch mma


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## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

...and this post is pointless because you are comparing two weight divisions; somthing Fedor has no control over.

He can't create more top HWs for the division, he can only fight the ones presented. If he beats them all...


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

wakeboy said:


> are you serious right now? Dont insult others opinions because they conflict with yours,because this may be a new concept to you, but not everyone jumps on a hype train. Let me guess your also a fan of lyoto machida? Guess what hes also OVERRATED. You probably think he has killer knockout power and has liek the best g4m3 pl4ns evar, hes so good he like never gets hit!!!!!!
> 
> roflcopter, aliziuo and i have all stated valid points and arguments on and you seriously have the nerve to say why are people taking roflcopter seriously? Do you think your mr noitall because your a forum mod here?
> 
> ...


Calm down. Don't go all "internet tough guy" on me. I wasn't talking about ROFLCOPTER, I was referring to Machida Karate who had posted directly above me about... you guessed it... comparing Randy to Overeem. 

Also, I happen to think the ROFLCOPTER makes some good points, however his attitude and disrespectful nature make it hard for people to take him seriously. If he really wanted to try and convince people of his points, he would treat people with a little bit of respect. 

Furthermore, my being a mod has nothing to do with it. I'm a poster on this forum just as you are. I also happen to keep this place free and clear of trolls and other such wastes of space. The latter doesn't change the former. So no, I'm not a "noitall" because I'm a mod here, and bringing it up as if it means something only looks bad on you.


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## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

It's between GSP, Anderson, and Fedor. Anyone of those guys could be #1 based on how you see it.

Times change, competition changes, etc, thus pound for pound will always change and switch up, even for the best. With that said, there's one thing that very, VERY few, if anynone, protests. That is, that Fedor is the greatest mixed martial artist of all time thus far. There is no one else who has taken every fight tossed at him, top 10 guys, top 5 guys, #1 guys, cans, monster guys, smaller guys, EVERYONE AND EVERY RANK, ring or cage, for a DECADE, and never lose (don't bring that cut loss up, come on, use common sense).

Fedor is the greatest mixed marital artist to ever live thus far in our sport, and to me, that's more than enough for me to smile.


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## wakeboy (Sep 14, 2009)

Davisty69 said:


> Calm down. Don't go all "internet tough guy" on me. I wasn't talking about ROFLCOPTER, I was referring to Machida Karate who had posted directly above me about... you guessed it... comparing Randy to Overeem.
> 
> Also, I happen to think the ROFLCOPTER makes some good points, however his attitude and disrespectful nature make it hard for people to take him seriously. If he really wanted to try and convince people of his points, he would treat people with a little bit of respect.
> 
> Furthermore, my being a mod has nothing to do with it. I'm a poster on this forum just as you are. I also happen to keep this place free and clear of trolls and other such wastes of space. The latter doesn't change the former. So no, I'm not a "noitall" because I'm a mod here, and bringing it up as if it means something only looks bad on you.


ya sorry for losing my cool and going "internet tough guy on you". I saw your post and assume it was directed to roflcopter because you mocked his maturity level in one of his posts and then roflcopter quoted the same post as i did, but anyways im sorry. I understand its tough being a mod and having to deal with annoying people like me everyday but anywho, i think you understand where some of my frustration comes from the stupid and irrelevant rebuttles but anywho... roflcopter releases his chi by name calling and i release it by going into internet bully mode, sorry for wasting your time lol:thumbsup:


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## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

Don't sweat it


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## DrHouse (Aug 1, 2009)

I would like to add my two cents to this. I am a firm believer that all rankings, P4P or weight class, should be done using MMA math. If you are close to someone (with 4 or 5 spots) on the rankings and you beat them you should go above them, this all being relative to your last 5 fights. P4P should be about how high the competition you are beating in your respective weight class. It should be done on results not performances.

On that basis, do I believe Fedor is #1 P4P? No. Do I believe he's #1 HW? Yes. Do I believe he has the best skillset in the HW division? Yes. Is he in my opinion almost odds on to beat any other HW? Yes. But as far as P4P rankings go I don't think he deserves #1. 

GSP's last 5: Thiago Alves (#2/#3, possibly Top 10 P4P), BJ Penn (#1 LW, Top 5 WW, Top 5 P4P), Jon Fitch (#2/#3, Top 10 P4P), Matt Serra (Top 10, WW champ), Matt Hughes (Top 10? WW). Apart from the rubber match and reclaiming the title after the blip, last 3 fights have been very, very solid.

Fedor's last 5 opponents: Brett Rogers (Top 10), Andrei Arlovski (Top 5, no way #2), Tim Sylvia (Top 5, apparently), Hong-Man Choi(?), Matt Lindland (Top 10/15? MW). Last 3 are good, but the period after CC and before Sylvia screw him up. Can't blame him though he's fighting whoever they put in front of him he aint ducking anyone, he was gonna fight #2(not imo but still) Barnett which would have been one of the best HW clashes since Fedor/Nog, Fedor/CC and CC/Nog.

Anderson Silva: Forrest Griffin (Top 10, possibly 5 LHW), Thales Leites (Top 5), Patrick Cote (Top 5), James Irvin (Top 15/20 LHW), Dan Henderson (Top 2). Competition might not be as good as the other 2, but he is travelling outside his weight class, not to mention he's already cleaned out his division.

Lyoto Machida: Mauricio Rua (Top 3, very controversial win but win nonetheless), Rashad Evans (#1, LHW Champ), Thiago Silva (Top 10), Tito Ortiz (Top 15, possibly 10), Sokoudjou (Top 10? Big wins over Nog and Arona). He isn't mentioned too much in P4P, but his wins are solid. I though Shogun won but officially it goes down as a Machida win, Sokoudjou had some serious victories on his belt and I honestly believe with some cardio and striking he could be dangerous.

BJ Penn: Diego Sanchez (According to Sherdog he's not top 10), Kenny Florian (Top 3), GSP (loss, #1 WW, WW champion), Sean Sherk (Top 5), Joe Stevenson (Top 5?). Good wins (confused about Diego) but is the only one with a loss in his last 5, LW is a division with a lot of talent outside the UFC and I think we're going to see the best of BJ soon. 

That's my P4P order.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

wakeboy said:


> ya sorry for losing my cool and going "internet tough guy on you". I saw your post and assume it was directed to roflcopter because you mocked his maturity level in one of his posts and then roflcopter quoted the same post as i did, but anyways im sorry. I understand its tough being a mod and having to deal with annoying people like me everyday but anywho, i think you understand where some of my frustration comes from the stupid and irrelevant rebuttles but anywho... *roflcopter releases his chi by name callin*g and i release it by going into internet bully mode, sorry for wasting your time lol:thumbsup:



I didn't do that.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Machida Karate said:


> I don't understand how this is suppose to be a good point.... Fact your simple minded Fact you dont think...... " FACT
> He has won 19 times by submission and 11 by KO. which again puts him ahead of Mir, Lesnar and old man Randy" Just because A guy fights A LOT less compitition doesn't mean SHIT.... Do u think like they don't do crap all day then just JUMP and fight? Like just because Overeem has more Submissions then Mir DOESN'T MEAN CRAP! What DOES MEAN CRAP IS WHO HAVE THEY FOUGHT! If Brock Lesnar fought all the same retards Overeem fought he would be UNDEFEATED, He only MAN HANDLES EVERYONE, people like Heath Hearing that put up a fight against all the best in the world, gets controled for 3 rounds like a Grown Man vs a Child.... If Mir fought all the same Non compitiion as Overeem he would of Submitted more.... SO WHO CARES THAT DOESN'T MEAN CRAP.... Your compairing guys that fought 99% of there fights in the Highes Calibur orginization.... Overeem would be killed by ether guy ANY DAY


Heath Herring went 3 rounds and to a decision with Brock, Herring barely lasted one round with Fedor.

The fact is that Fedor has challenged against the worlds best and has beaten all of them. Brock hasnt.

Also Anderson Silva hasnt really fought that many people outside of America. The times that he has fought international competition, in many cases Silva has gotten a loss.


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## coldcall420 (Aug 2, 2007)

monaroCountry said:


> Heath Herring went 3 rounds and to a decision with Brock, Herring barely lasted one round with Fedor.
> 
> The fact is that Fedor has challenged against the worlds best and has beaten all of them. Brock hasnt.
> 
> Also Anderson Silva hasnt really fought that many people outside of America. The times *that he has fought international competition, in many cases Silva has gotten a loss*.


 
*To Whom???:confused02:*

*He fought in Pride and in the UK....*


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## BobbyCooper (Oct 26, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> Also Anderson Silva hasnt really fought that many people outside of America. The times that he has fought international competition, in many cases Silva has gotten a loss.





coldcall420 said:


> *To Whom???:confused02:*
> 
> *He fought in Pride and in the UK....*


*#2 To Whom??* :confused02:

Silva fought 16 times against non American fighters, he has an impressive record of 12-4 against international opponents. One loss was a DQ, another one was his first professional MMA fight ever and we all know about these unfortunate mixture of 2 sub defeats!


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## _RIVAL_ (Mar 7, 2008)

monaroCountry said:


> Fought against 6 Japanese fighters and lost against Daiju Takase, Ryo Chonan, and Yushin Okami (last three Japanese fighters he has fought). Decided to fight for the UFC where he wouldnt need to fight against harder international fighters. Since 2006 Silva has only ever fought 9 USA fighters, 1 from Canada and 1 from Brazil. Since then Silva hasnt fought an international fighter outside the America's.


Do they test for steroids in Japan?

And Yushin Okami? You're going to use that? lol....He knocked Yushin out with an upkick. He got disqualified while Yushin slept.


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## Roflcopter (Sep 5, 2008)

Considering he beat an undefeated, prime Mach Sakurai in Japan that argument is poor.


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