# UFC discussion from the past 5



## Biowza

It was argued that it was somewhat of a premature stoppage. I personally thought that it certainly could have gone for a little while longer. Ivan wasn't slammed that hard and he did seem to withstand the hammer fists.
He looked a bit dazed after though.


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## Josh3239

I thought that too. I watched it again, but Ivan did look out and he wasn't defending the attacks. Watch it again.


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## Shamrock-Ortiz

The Ref HAD TO STOP IT HE HAD TO.
He was facing the canvas with his hands doing nothing, he looked out, of course when the ref pulled martin off he got up straight away, he maybe wasn't out but he should of showed that he could defend himself. The Ref had no choice!


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## Biowza

*Most exciting weight class?*

Which weight class do you guys think is the most exciting to watch.


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## Boxing>MMA

Welterweight find it hard to pick any other one except if you like the weight class of what you weigh or like seeing gigantic human-beings HW's fight who are better than any other weight class except sometimes LHW's. I personally weigh about 170 something so I could say I like welterweight, because that is what I weigh.


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## NikosCC

Lighweight is.. Faster Pace Some just come out Swinging its more Exciting


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## MMA_Central

I'd go with Welterweight and Light Heavyweight. I'm suprised nobody voted for Light Heavyweight before me. The Pride Light Heavyweight Grand Prixs were fantastic.


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## MoopsiePuffs

light heavyweight for me, just so much depth and in the near future there is gonna be some crazy match-ups with the PRIDE guys coming over.


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## Knock out

Lightweights they are fast and go all our for the whole fight and after the new additions i can see this division just getting better and better


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## Flak

Lightweight. The pace is so fast for all 3 rounds.


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## royce81

Got to go with LHW, there are so many great fighters in the division and with the big names from pride coming over its only going to get better and better, can't wait to see Henderson vs Jackson at 75


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## LivingDedMan

I like the light heavyweights the best. They're like the lightweights, only big.


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## Flak

Not really. They gas more often, and the pace is slower.


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## the ultimate

LHW. There is some real depth in the LHW division and there is a lot of possible match-up's.


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## raul21

Light HeavyWeight for me!!:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## TheNegation

LHW, so many great fights over the years.


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## bbjd7

LHW's They are basically HW power with MW speed and they are the most exicting divison by far IMO i will say that the LW are a lot of fun but they don't have top names yet and they are really lacking finishing skills they have exicting fights but I would like to see the top guys finish each other more often so we don't have contervesy like Guida vs Griffen


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## Flak

I don't need big names for great fights. I really like 3 round wars the lightweights have. It's just an insane speed for 15 mins and they can sustain it like no other division.


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## bbjd7

Flak said:


> I don't need big names for great fights. I really like 3 round wars the lightweights have. It's just an insane speed for 15 mins and they can sustain it like no other division.


but they seldomly finish those great fights with either KO's or Subs Huerta vs Garcia was a decison, Griffen vs Guida was a decison, Shrek vs Florian was a decison, Fisher vs Stout was a decison. They don't have the flash KO power in the LW divison.

The speed though is exicting to watch Some Fighters in other divisons go hard for three rounds but every fighter in the LW seems to go full out for 15 minutes and that makes for exictment


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## Flak

bbjd7 said:


> but they seldomly finish those great fights with either KO's or Subs Huerta vs Garcia was a decison, Griffen vs Guida was a decison, Shrek vs Florian was a decison, Fisher vs Stout was a decison. They don't have the flash KO power in the LW divison.


I guess that's where we differ somewhat. I love a good KO as much as the next guy, but its not a prerequisit for a great fight in my book. Great fights are great fights regardless of the outcome.

I'd take any of the above fights over a first round KO anyday.


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## Fedor>all

WTF? How aren't LW and WW winning this poll?:confused03:


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## Hett

Fedor>all said:


> WTF? How aren't LW and WW winning this poll?:confused03:


Because LHW is the best.:dunno:


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## ID06

Middleweight, they have a good mix of strength, speed, and skill


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## jdun11

The transitions is the LW division are so fun to watch. Nothing tops that IMO. I think the LHW's have the most start power and most intriguing matchups. But most exciting goes to LW.


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## Calibretto9

I gave it to Welterweights. Lightweights are fast and furious, but my problem with them is the majority of them are all speed and no power. There are a few exceptions like Gomi, Sherk, Penn, etc., but the vast majority lack KO power and often the power to pull a difficult sub off.

The Welterweight division, to me, has all the speed but more power. I'd also give a nod to the seemingly unpopular Middleweight division for the same reason.


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## Fedor>all

Hett said:


> Because LHW is the best.:dunno:


I think it goes in this order personally:

WW>LW>HW>LHW>MW

GSP, Penn, Hughes, Serra, Koscheck, Sanchez, Fitch, Parisyan, Johnson.

vs

Shogun, Liddell, Rampage, Machida, Bisping, Griffin, Ortiz, Evans,...???


I'd definitely pick the first group.:dunno:


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## esv

Lightweight


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## Kung Foo Masta!

I'd have to say either Middleweight or Light heavyweight.


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## Calibretto9

To me it goes: WW > MW > LW > LHW > HW.

I think the WW and MW divisions have guys who are still quick and agile, but retain enough size and power to pull off vicious subs or nasty KO's. It's actually odd since 2 of my top 3 favorite fighters are in the LW division (Gomi and Penn), but overall WW and MW are my favorite.

Fights like the Clay Guida/Tyson Griffon fight kill me sometimes on the LW division. I'm sitting there screaming at the tv, "Somebody cause some freaking damage! You're like a bunch of hyper hamsters!" There are a handful of LW's who can really dish out the pain, but overall I think the division is a little light on powerful guys. There are some, like Joe "Daddy," Sherk, etc., but I like the divisions where it's a norm and not a rareity.


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## Hett

Fedor>all said:


> I think it goes in this order personally:
> 
> WW>LW>HW>LHW>MW
> 
> GSP, Penn, Hughes, Serra, Koscheck, Sanchez, Fitch, Parisyan, Johnson.
> 
> vs
> 
> Shogun, Liddell, Rampage, Machida, Bisping, Griffin, Ortiz, Evans,...???
> 
> 
> I'd definitely pick the first group.:dunno:


Well you left out Lil Nog, Henderson and Silva:confused02:


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## bbjd7

Fedor>all said:


> I think it goes in this order personally:
> 
> WW>LW>HW>LHW>MW
> 
> GSP, Penn, Hughes, Serra, Koscheck, Sanchez, Fitch, Parisyan, Johnson.
> 
> vs
> 
> Shogun, Liddell, Rampage, Machida, Bisping, Griffin, Ortiz, Evans,...???
> 
> 
> I'd definitely pick the first group.:dunno:


The questiom was best weight class not the best UFC weight class LHW has
Shogun, Liddell, W Silva, Rampage, Henderson, Arona, Lil Nog, Tito, Rashad, Lyoto, Nakamura, and Sokky
I like that list better than the WW's


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## steveo412

Welterweight followed by LHW then LW then MW then HW. Until Fedor comes then its all HW.


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## TheSuplexor

well in terms of the fighters i would have to pick ww or lhw.
ww = bj penn, matt hughes, gsp, kos, sanchez, karo....exciting!!
lhw = rua, hendo, rampage, wanderlei, chuck


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## Flak

I think people are interpreting the question differently.

LHW has some of the best fighters around atm, and has some cool matchups....but excitement factor alone i still dont think you can top LW.


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## Hett

The reason I say LHW, is because I love KO's and submissions. I absolutely despise decisions. I wanna see a KO or tapout than 3(or 5) rounds of two guys going crazy the whole time and let the judges decide.


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## AmRiT

WW/LHW for me


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## Fedor>all

Hett said:


> Well you left out Lil Nog, Henderson and Silva:confused02:


I'm talking divisions as of now, notice how I didn't mention Gomi, Sakurai, Aoki, etc in my list of WW fighters?


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## bbjd7

Fedor>all said:


> I'm talking divisions as of now, notice how I didn't mention Gomi, Sakurai, Aoki, etc in my list of WW fighters?


Well Silva is just as close to being signed as Shogun and Henderson is already signed for a fight.


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## Arlovski_Fan

I think LW's are the best, although I like watching some KO's so I like some HW. Although with HW sometimes they are just snoozefests :dunno:


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## jamlena

WW, these guys are just small enough to move very damn fast but just big enough to have some serious KO power, some of the best fights have been in the ww division.


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## Fedor>all

bbjd7 said:


> Well Silva is just as close to being signed as Shogun and Henderson is already signed for a fight.


Yeah but none of them are active at this point in the UFC, I'm looking at the way things are now and I find LW,WW and HW to be more exciting divisions, from a roster perspective.:dunno:


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## B-Real

Probably Welterweight. It could be Light Heavyweight but the division needs a couple more exciting fighters. Such as Gilbert Yvel and Yoshihiro Akiyama! That would be SICK!!! I would love to see Yvel do the CRAZY on Liddell and then get KO'd a few seconds later!!! :laugh:


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## Josh3239

Chalk up another vote for LHW


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## bbjd7

Fedor>all said:


> Yeah but none of them are active at this point in the UFC, I'm looking at the way things are now and I find LW,WW and HW to be more exciting divisions, from a roster perspective.:dunno:


I would agree because without Shogun Wandy and Henderson this divison is pretty weak It's basically Liddell, Page, Lyoto and TUF'ers


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## ufcelite112

Personally, I'm a big fan of the HWs. 

The heavyweights are what fighting is all about. They are the fittest, most capatlbe guys in the Octagon and probably in the world. That's what really draws to towards the HWs.

Also, it's fun watching the WW go at it with their quikness and power.


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## Pirdefan

I like the Heavyweights because when they punch it looks like it really hurts and there Is alot of good HWS out there like Fedor,Cro Cop ETC.


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## OV Pimp

It depends on who is fighting. Sometimes the Heavyweight can be the most exciting if someone like Fedor Emelianenko or Mirko Cro Cop is fighting, but then so can the Light Heavyweight if someone like Chuck Liddell or Tito Ortiz is fighting. I think it all varies, but if I had to absolutely pick one favorite weight class I'd have to say Welterweight, just because I weight about 170 so it's fun to see guys that I weigh as much as fight for a living.


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## xeberus

Fisher vs Stout 2

LW fight, great fight, you guys should check it out.


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## libertywrestler

have to say lightweight with huerta, edgar, guida, sherk and others in the mix


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## Judoka

I think LHW now but not not to long ago i think it was WW but all divisions are good to watch.


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## BradNeverSubmit

Gotta say welterwieght. the young talent is crazy: GSP, Karo Parisyan, Josh Koschek, Dirty Sanchez, Matt Hughes, and Hopefully Jake Shields one day


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## LionsDen32

Light Heavyweight b/c thats where my favorite fighters are but WW and LW are very exiciting as well


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## Biowza

*Anyone else notice this?*

Maybe I'm just the only one who cares lol. I just noticed the huge gap between UFC 73 and 74. 73 was July 7, 74 is going down August 25th. Too long of a wait imo.

But then they have 4 UFC events within 4 weeks!! I've only been watching UFC since 69 so is this a common occurance? Have UFC events ever been this spread out then condensed this much?


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## IcemanCometh

Need a quick fix? We got WEC this sunday on Vs. Channel...and is seeming to be a more re-occuring theme, have a bunch back to back then like a month and half wait, but as they get bigger and more fighters I suspect that will stop being the case.


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## Super Fudge

Could be worse...you could be a boxing fan.

Those poor bastards have to wait eons between big events.

And then they suck.


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## 6sidedlie

4 UFC events in 4 weeks?

Wow, White is going to be smiling all the way to the bank.

74 is worth the wait though, this event is going to be awesome.


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## Aaronyman

don't forget TUF6 will probably start in that 4 weeks too


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## ShadyNismo

IcemanCometh said:


> Need a quick fix? We got WEC this sunday on Vs. Channel...and is seeming to be a more re-occuring theme, have a bunch back to back then like a month and half wait, but as they get bigger and more fighters I suspect that will stop being the case.


@ a quick fix lolll this aint crack loll repp homie :thumb02:


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## dutch sauce

iyt cant be perfect


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## hollando

ive actually brought this one up a couple of times 

but like has been stated above we got some wec events 

and isnt the ifl having one shortly

in anycase its more then worth the wait


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## Truuuax

*Well 75 is going to be on Spike TV, then 76 is like two weeks after that because its a PPV. It all just depends on the dates UFC can book events at certain places and when they can air it around other fight dates, or WWE PPV dates. If they do all that right, the PPV buys are really good for them.*


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## TheNegation

Yup, horribly long gap.


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## Biowza

*Why does everyone think Kongo will lose?*

I don't get the mentality that Cheick Kongo is going to get destroyed when he steps into the octagon against Crocop. People bring up that Kongo sucks on the ground...so? He gets taken down easily...so what? I highly doubt that Mirko is going to take him down (Mirko is nothing special on the ground) and even if he does, Kongo is good enough not to get caught in anything. He fought Assuerio Silva (who is a BJJ brown belt and better than Mirko on the ground) for 3 rounds at UFC 70, and while we did see that he is easily taken down, he defended enough submissions and worked hard enough not to be held down for 15 minutes. If (and thats a big if) Mirko takes him down, Kongo is good enough to not get submitted.

So the fight is most likely going to be standing. Mirko isn't that dominant there either. Granted, he probably is more the more skilled of the fighters standing, but Kongos strikes are CRISP. Watch his fights at UFC 61 & 62. He shows real nice power and accuracy, and he might just have the advantage over Mirko in the clinch with his lethal knees. Factor in his reach advantage and his massive size and I serioulsly think that Kongo has a chance to beat Mirko. 

I'm not saying Kongo will win. Infact, I think that there is a really good chance that the more experienced and powerful (?) Crocop will knock him out. But it wont be such a steamroll imo, all you Crocop fans who say that he's going to knock him out in 10 seconds need to take a step back and re-watch Gonzaga vs Crocop. 

I am sure you were saying the same things back then...


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## southpaw447

I don't know if you saw the post of his training regimine but he's coming back with a vengance after that loss to Napao. I don't think kongo is going ot be able to handle his riddum. And it wouldn't surpise me at all if he took it to the ground because Kongo sucks ass down there. Sure Kongo has a height and reach over CC but that didn't stop Couture from beating Sylvia


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## Chonies69

I think if Kongo stays in Cro Cop's face he might possibly win. Cro Cop kind of falls apart when that happens.


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## ZZtigerZZ81

southpaw447 said:


> I don't know if you saw the post of his training regimine but he's coming back with a vengance after that loss to Napao. I don't think kongo is going ot be able to handle his riddum. And it wouldn't surpise me at all if he took it to the ground because Kongo sucks ass down there. Sure Kongo has a height and reach over CC but that didn't stop Couture from beating Sylvia


Yeah but it stopped CroCop from beating Hoost three times. And Hoost and Kongo have very similar fighting styles. Kongo could easily beat CroCop. He is more athletic and a better kickboxer. He is just so young and I don't know if the camp he trains with properly prepares him for fights. He hasn't been overly impressive in MMA yet. But, this could be more a kickbox match then MMA and if that is the case get ready to be disappointed by CroCop again. You thought Napao's elbows affected his game wait til you see what Kongo's knees can do to it.


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## WestCoastPoutin

Good points by everybody. My logic is very simple.

Cro Cop = Good

Angry Cro Cop = Deadly

thats my only reasoning. Im a man. Brain no make complicate.


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## royalking87

just like the guy above said cro cop striking=knock out or hospital angry cro cop striking=grave


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## FredFish1

from what i've seen of cro-cops training. I think he very well may try to take him down. Either way you're right Kongo will not be a walk in the park, but look at it this way. No matter who you are, facing a pissed off cro-cop is probably going to hurt if not knock you out, even if your name is mark hunt.


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## MAVERIK

I've said it from the start, Kongo has a legimate chance at winning this fight. But yeah, Crocop is pissed and that's scary so I'd bank on him, could be a close fight though


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## Couchwarrior

Yes, as I've said before, Cro Cop is a very good matchup for Kongo compared to any of the other top HW:s in the world. Both like to stand up, so Kongo doesn't have to worry about the takedowns, and can move in close where Cro Cop is less effective and where Kongo is in his best element. 

It's just that Cro Cop is a top HW and Kongo really isn't, and Cro Cop will probably be quite aggressive after that humiliating loss. If Kongo gets passive in the cage he's probably going to be knocked out.


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## murrayjb

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Yeah but it stopped CroCop from beating Hoost three times. And Hoost and Kongo have very similar fighting styles. Kongo could easily beat CroCop. He is more athletic and a better kickboxer. He is just so young and I don't know if the camp he trains with properly prepares him for fights. He hasn't been overly impressive in MMA yet. But, this could be more a kickbox match then MMA and if that is the case get ready to be disappointed by CroCop again. You thought Napao's elbows affected his game wait til you see what Kongo's knees can do to it.



Do you honestly have any facts that back up Kongo being a better kick boxer? Its complete theory... 

Sure, CCs UFC showings werent the best...but he definitley didn't fight like he usually does. It doesn't take away anything he did in the past. Kongo hasn't accomplished anything yet... theres nothing in his striking that proves he is a better kick boxer. 
From my knowledge he knocked out 4 cans with losing records outside of the UFC, and then TKO and KOd two C level fighters in the UFC. So what?


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## Flak

I think CC will win, but if CC wants to play in Kongo's world - there's a chance (a decent one actually) that Kongo will put him down.


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## kd2007

Cro Cop IMO will win but it will not be a walk in the park


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## Davisty69

I would love to see some Cro Cop Ground N Pound. If he shot in for the takedown and manhandled Kongo, I think I would cry tears of joy.


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## wukkadb

Chonies69 said:


> I think if Kongo stays in Cro Cop's face he might possibly win. Cro Cop kind of falls apart when that happens.


You obviously didn't see the Wanderlei CC fight:confused02:


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## Davisty69

Good point... Good point^^^^^:thumbsup:


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## FromHereOn

Good point. If Cro Cop presses the fight, he kills his opponent. If you watch his first Wand match, or with Fedor, he ends up being the one who circles, and eventually loses.

I think Cro Cop will push this fight. He's pissed.


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## ZZtigerZZ81

murrayjb said:


> Do you honestly have any facts that back up Kongo being a better kick boxer? Its complete theory...
> 
> Sure, CCs UFC showings werent the best...but he definitley didn't fight like he usually does. It doesn't take away anything he did in the past. Kongo hasn't accomplished anything yet... theres nothing in his striking that proves he is a better kick boxer.
> From my knowledge he knocked out 4 cans with losing records outside of the UFC, and then TKO and KOd two C level fighters in the UFC. So what?


Rating Kongo=244 Filipovic=251 And just by watching the two at what they do.


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## Davisty69

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Rating Kongo=244 Filipovic=251 And just by watching the two at what they do.


You can also look at this ranking system and laugh too...
MMA WEEKLY - Your #1 Source for Daily MMA News, Interviews, Multimedia, and More

Matt Serra is the best Mixed Martial Artist at 170! :sarcastic12: :sarcastic12:


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## murrayjb

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Rating Kongo=244 Filipovic=251 And just by watching the two at what they do.


I find that strange considering Cro Cop has beaten some of the guys in the Top 10. 

Those rankings are rediculous.

Look who Cro Cop has beaten here. 

#2 ranked kickboxer- Remy Bonjasky 

#4 ranked kickboxer- Glaube Feitosa 

#9 ranked kixkboxer- Peter Aerts 

#11 ranked kickboxer- Jerome Lebanner 


And thats just to name A FEW. Those rankings are extremely flawed considering Mirko has destroyed half of the people in the top 20 lol? And hes ranked 251, that makes a lot of sence. 

How can anyone can think Kongo will survive a kickboxing match against cro cop? Especially since getting ko'd was probably the best thing for him, expect him to be back better than ever.


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## LivingDedMan

If Gonzaga can knock out CroCop then Kongo can definitely knock him out also. Kongo has better striking ability than Gonzaga does. I figure CroCop will win the fight, but I'll probably throw some points on Kongo for the odds.


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## PrideFan123

"Why does everyone think Kongo will lose?"

-Because he's going against a pissed off CroCop.


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## esv

Kongo is a pretty good fighter, but hes going against a motivated cro cop. So therfore he has no chance.


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## madroxcide

Biowza said:


> I don't get the mentality that Cheick Kongo is going to get destroyed when he steps into the octagon against Crocop. People bring up that Kongo sucks on the ground...so? He gets taken down easily...so what? I highly doubt that Mirko is going to take him down (Mirko is nothing special on the ground) and even if he does, Kongo is good enough not to get caught in anything. He fought Assuerio Silva (who is a BJJ brown belt and better than Mirko on the ground) for 3 rounds at UFC 70, and while we did see that he is easily taken down, he defended enough submissions and worked hard enough not to be held down for 15 minutes. If (and thats a big if) Mirko takes him down, Kongo is good enough to not get submitted.
> 
> So the fight is most likely going to be standing. Mirko isn't that dominant there either. Granted, he probably is more the more skilled of the fighters standing, but Kongos strikes are CRISP. Watch his fights at UFC 61 & 62. He shows real nice power and accuracy, and he might just have the advantage over Mirko in the clinch with his lethal knees. Factor in his reach advantage and his massive size and I serioulsly think that Kongo has a chance to beat Mirko.
> 
> I'm not saying Kongo will win. Infact, I think that there is a really good chance that the more experienced and powerful (?) Crocop will knock him out. But it wont be such a steamroll imo, all you Crocop fans who say that he's going to knock him out in 10 seconds need to take a step back and re-watch Gonzaga vs Crocop.
> 
> I am sure you were saying the same things back then...


I personally don't think any fight is guaranteed to have 1 person win because well its a fight, but i believe Mirko is the much better kick boxer and since thats Kongo's big thing and what he likes then he might get out classed by another kick boxer, not to mention height isn't an issue for a head kick from Mirko he has proven that already


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## Chonies69

wukkadb said:


> You obviously didn't see the Wanderlei CC fight:confused02:


In that fight Cro Cop was kind of pissed, and Silva's a little lighter than Cro Cop.


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## TheNegation

Crocop is a WAY better kickboxer than Kongo......good god.
Also, he has a Brown Belt in BJJ as far as I know. It's not exactly hard to see that Kongo is going down, fast.


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## e-thug

> "Why does everyone think Kongo will lose?"



Well many moons ago, when Randlemen shocked the world and beat CroCop, a pissed off CroCop went on a 7 win tear 6 of those 7 ended before it could go to a decision....some of those wins came against some of the worlds top talent in Emelianenko and Barnett.

I am not completely counting out Kongo, I just have seen what an angry CroCop does...


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## ZZtigerZZ81

murrayjb said:


> I find that strange considering Cro Cop has beaten some of the guys in the Top 10.
> 
> Those rankings are rediculous.
> 
> Look who Cro Cop has beaten here.
> 
> #2 ranked kickboxer- Remy Bonjasky
> 
> #4 ranked kickboxer- Glaube Feitosa
> 
> #9 ranked kixkboxer- Peter Aerts
> 
> #11 ranked kickboxer- Jerome Lebanner
> 
> 
> And thats just to name A FEW. Those rankings are extremely flawed considering Mirko has destroyed half of the people in the top 20 lol? And hes ranked 251, that makes a lot of sence.
> 
> How can anyone can think Kongo will survive a kickboxing match against cro cop? Especially since getting ko'd was probably the best thing for him, expect him to be back better than ever.


You said it was theory I provided some proof; you don't have to agree with it just acknowledge that it is out there. as for how they came up with their rankings that is explained in great detail on the sight. Many of the fighters that "should be ranked in the top ten" are not currently fighting in the kickboxing world so "a period of inactivity" drops their ranking. Everyone seems to think CroCop has problems with people in his face I disagree I think he has more problems with people that control the distance. Especially in K-1. He also is not great in the clinch and that is where Kongo excels. So, that is why I think he is a better kickboxer. As for MMA I think CroCop has him beat hands down and that is why he wins.


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## kamikaze145

Biowza said:


> I don't get the mentality that Cheick Kongo is going to get destroyed when he steps into the octagon against Crocop. People bring up that Kongo sucks on the ground...so? He gets taken down easily...so what? I highly doubt that Mirko is going to take him down (Mirko is nothing special on the ground) and even if he does, Kongo is good enough not to get caught in anything. He fought Assuerio Silva (who is a BJJ brown belt and better than Mirko on the ground) for 3 rounds at UFC 70, and while we did see that he is easily taken down, he defended enough submissions and worked hard enough not to be held down for 15 minutes. If (and thats a big if) Mirko takes him down, Kongo is good enough to not get submitted.
> 
> So the fight is most likely going to be standing. Mirko isn't that dominant there either. Granted, he probably is more the more skilled of the fighters standing, but Kongos strikes are CRISP. Watch his fights at UFC 61 & 62. He shows real nice power and accuracy, and he might just have the advantage over Mirko in the clinch with his lethal knees. Factor in his reach advantage and his massive size and I serioulsly think that Kongo has a chance to beat Mirko.
> 
> I'm not saying Kongo will win. Infact, I think that there is a really good chance that the more experienced and powerful (?) Crocop will knock him out. But it wont be such a steamroll imo, all you Crocop fans who say that he's going to knock him out in 10 seconds need to take a step back and re-watch Gonzaga vs Crocop.
> 
> I am sure you were saying the same things back then...


i dont agree when you say Mirko isnt that dominant standing but i do agree that this will be a good fight. I have Mirko winning because i think he is a better strikr but Kongo is crisp as hell and will definately make it interesting. This will be a fun fight for sure


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## wukkadb

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> Rating Kongo=244 Filipovic=251 And just by watching the two at what they do.


Those rankings are garbage! Hong Man Choi = #8 kickboxer in the world? Bob Sapp #41? Terrible


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## AmRiT

Great post, repped...


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## Damone

PrideFan123 said:


> "Why does everyone think Kongo will lose?"
> 
> -Because he's going against a pissed off CroCop.


Well yeah, Cro Cop is consistent in his "whomping dude's after he gets brutally KO'ed" ordeal.

Also, Mirko is taking this thing seriously, and didn't just watch one fight on Youtube like he did against Gonzaga. Dude knows that Gonzy almost prevented him of playing hopscotch, so he's going to take it out on Kongo.


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## Robopencil

People underestimate Mirko's ground game. He's a BJJ brown belt. Granted his style is extremely defensive, and he's far more likely to hold you in his guard until the fight is stood up than he is to submit you. 

There's no doubt that his Jiu-Jitsu is better than Kongo's, whether or not he will pull of a submission (he has one sub, a standing guillotine, and 3 other verbal taps(subs), one due to leg kicks ).

He's got some decent ground and pound however, and if he took Kongo to the ground there's a decent chance that things could end with a TKO.

On their feet, I believe that Mirko is a better striker. He did well in K1, though there were quite a few who were better. The thing is, his style of standup was a better translation into MMA than the other K1 fighters.

I still believe that he is one of, if not, the best striker in MMA, despite a dissapointing loss to Gonzaga. Gonzaga is very good, no doubt, but if you've followed Mirko for any length of time then you'll agree that he was just not himself in that fight.

Mirko has experienced some pretty unlikely losses in the past, and each time has come back on a brutal rampage, kicking off heads left and right, and I think he has it in himself to do it one last time.


----------



## wukkadb

Robopencil said:


> People underestimate Mirko's ground game. He's a BJJ brown belt. Granted his style is extremely defensive, and he's far more likely to hold you in his guard until the fight is stood up than he is to submit you.
> 
> There's no doubt that his Jiu-Jitsu is better than Kongo's, whether or not he will pull of a submission (he has one sub, a standing guillotine, and 3 other verbal taps(subs), one due to leg kicks ).
> 
> He's got some decent ground and pound however, and if he took Kongo to the ground there's a decent chance that things could end with a TKO.
> 
> On their feet, I believe that Mirko is a better striker. He did well in K1, though there were quite a few who were better. The thing is, his style of standup was a better translation into MMA than the other K1 fighters.
> 
> I still believe that he is one of, if not, the best striker in MMA, despite a dissapointing loss to Gonzaga. Gonzaga is very good, no doubt, but if you've followed Mirko for any length of time then you'll agree that he was just not himself in that fight.
> 
> Mirko has experienced some pretty unlikely losses in the past, and each time has come back on a brutal rampage, kicking off heads left and right, and I think he has it in himself to do it one last time.


BJJ Brown belt? I highly, highly doubt that. The majority of MMA fighters aren't even brown belts...

I do agree he's a much better striker than Kongo though


----------



## Robopencil

I can confirm that he's atleast a blue belt level, which is what I thought he was. But I've seen a few people on this forum say that he's a brown belt under Werdum. If they were misinformed themselves, then I can tell you that he is at blue belt level. :thumbsup:


----------



## Robopencil

Whoops, I just realized that I said brown belt, meant purple. My bad.. I train JJ too :/ heh.


----------



## Biowza

*Whats next for Roger Huerta?*

After many dominant victories against relative no-names. I really feel that now is the time for the UFC to put their money where their mouth is and give their poster boy a challenge. Roger is fast becoming one of my favorite fighters and I personally would love to see him tested to the best of his ability. 

He is relentless in his attack, he has great cardio, he finishes fights when he can, and he is smart. Now is the time UFC, test your boy. So I guess my question is...

Who do you want to see Roger Huerta fight next?


----------



## capt_america

clay guida

they won thier last fight..IMO its now time to test Huerta's cardio,wrestling and striking..a fast paced 3-round is a good fight to watch..

i think Guida will win this in the eyes of all but the judges will probably give this to Huerta by a close decision.


----------



## e-thug

Biowza said:


> After many dominant victories against relative no-names. I really feel that now is the time for the UFC to put their money where their mouth is and give their poster boy a challenge. Roger is fast becoming one of my favorite fighters and I personally would love to see him tested to the best of his ability.
> 
> He is relentless in his attack, he has great cardio, he finishes fights when he can, and he is smart. Now is the time UFC, test your boy. So I guess my question is...
> 
> Who do you want to see Roger Huerta fight next?



First of all a very good post, ya pointed out that Huerta has faught no one spectacular, however could be a prospect in the division!:thumbsup: 

And yeah, I think its about time they gave him a step up in class...not anyone A level to be honest, I think a BJ Penn, Sean Sherk or even Joe Stevenson would defeat him wit ease...Huerta is very agressive and I noticed several times in the Crane fight that a better fighter would have punished him for what I consider bein a bit "sloppy"...

I think these fighters would be suitable for the "next" step:

Jorge Gurgel (tough lil SOB)
Melvin Guillard (Huerta has yet to fight a guy wit heavy hands)
Alvin Robinson (a descent fighter wit good ground skills)
Sam Stout (Has FOTN award written all over it)


----------



## sirdilznik

e-thug said:


> First of all a very good post, ya pointed out that Huerta has faught no one spectacular, however could be a prospect in the division!:thumbsup:
> 
> And yeah, I think its about time they gave him a step up in class...not anyone A level to be honest, I think a BJ Penn, Sean Sherk or even Joe Stevenson would defeat him wit ease...Huerta is very agressive and I noticed several times in the Crane fight that a better fighter would have punished him for what I consider bein a bit "sloppy"...
> 
> I think these fighters would be suitable for the "next" step:
> 
> Jorge Gurgel (tough lil SOB)
> Melvin Guillard (Huerta has yet to fight a guy wit heavy hands)
> Alvin Robinson (a descent fighter wit good ground skills)
> Sam Stout (Has FOTN award written all over it)


Damn good!! Repped.


----------



## pauly_j

I think Heurta is being pampered because he's the pretty poster boy for the ufc. He should be given an actual ranked lightweight next.


(btw, he has fought and lost to Guiliard already but it was ruled a nc because Guiliard was greased. Greased or no greased, Heurta got his face smashed in).


----------



## The Legend

I think he should fight Guillard next when Guillard comes off suspension and Guillard will smash his face in.


----------



## Grotty

pauly_j said:


> I think Heurta is being pampered because he's the pretty poster boy for the ufc. He should be given an actual ranked lightweight next.
> 
> 
> (btw, he has fought and lost to Guiliard already but it was ruled a nc because Guiliard was greased. Greased or no greased, Heurta got his face smashed in).



Huerta is being built up he aint being protected ffs you step in the ring and get your face smashed and then say yep they are going easy. Huerta hasnt asked for a Title shot he knows he aint ready just yet.


----------



## e-thug

pauly_j said:


> (btw, he has fought and lost to Guiliard already but it was ruled a nc because Guiliard was greased. Greased or no greased, Heurta got his face smashed in).



So he didnt really lose then. Besides, sounds like ya wouldnt mind seeing them square off again!?

Both fighters have come along way since then and I think it would be a good matchup


----------



## looney liam

i think kenny florian vs roger huerta would be a great fast paced fight. both guys have good stand ups, i'd give the nod to kenny in this fight. kenny's leg kicks are hard to deal with.


----------



## kds13

Has no one said Frank Edgar vs. Roger Huerta yet? :thumbsup: 

I think that would be FOTN no matter what the card looks like.


----------



## Truuuax

*Guida and Huerta would be a freakin wicked fight, I would pay top dollar to see them go at it.*


----------



## Iceman_666

Truuuax said:


> *Guida and Huerta would be a freakin wicked fight, I would pay top dollar to see them go at it.*


I agree. Both guys come out and give it all. What a war this would be. I like both fighters but I like Guida more and I think he would take this. Guida had bad luck but now thats all behind him with his win over Maximus. Guida be split decison tko rd 3.


----------



## Biowza

*IF crocop loses...*

Who do you see him fighting next? If he loses to Kongo, he would have fought
-Eddie Sanchez (W)
-Gabe Gonzaga (L)
-Cheick Kongo (L)

I began thinking, who would the UFC put him up against for his next fight? Would we see him fight another 'no name' or would they just put him in bigger fights. And if they do put him in a big fight, would he have deserved it? Who would the 'no name' be? Who would the 'big fight' be?

IMO, if Crocop loses to Kongo, casual MMA fans and UFC watchers will seriously lose interest in him. Having said that, he would have another 3 fights in his contract which should be enough to 're-build' him up for the casual fans and eventually put him in a big fight or possibly a title fight. I think that if he loses against Kongo, the UFC will put him in an 'Eddie Sanchez-esque' fight and then put him in a bigger fight right away, eventually putting him in the huge fight they wanted since they signed him.

Let me get some things crystal clear first.
-Replies along the line of 'HURRRRR BUT CROCOP WONT LOSE HURRRR' are not welcome, this is a hypothetical situation.
-I am aware that Crocop will most likely win against Kongo
-I am not saying that Crocop is 'done' or that he isnt a skilled fighter.
-I am not saying that a loss to Kongo would end his career
-I am not insulting him
-I respect him as a fighter


----------



## TheNegation

He would probably end up in the non televised matches agains some young up and coming no-name who he would end up killing.


----------



## Kaneda X

If he loses to Kongo, then his next opponent would have to be someone further down the pecking order than Kongo. Having watched the build up to UFC75 last night and Mirko's interveiw, it does seem like he is now taking UFC seriousley, which he wasn't before. He now has his own cage to practise with and is trying elbows, lets hope we see a much improved Mirko.


----------



## SuzukS

Hurrr But Crocop Won't Lose Hurrrrrr


----------



## mikehmike

HE WONT lose sir =)


----------



## cdtcpl

I don't think we would ever see him on anything but a PPV due to his huge contract. I could see DW trying to put him against Lesnor or someone like that where one way or the other he wins.


----------



## royalking87

if he does lose he will prob fight a can but if uve watched his training like we have ud know hes fuckn pissed and he wants to make a statement outta kongo so thats why its gonna be cro cop head kick kongo grave


----------



## TheNegation

I have always had a feeling Crocop is gonna kick someone in the head someday and they are not gonna wake up........maybe it will be Kongo.


----------



## looney liam

IF (and thats a big if) he loses dana will throw an unknown with a slightly impressive record against him in the hopes cro cop will win. 

personally, i think cro cop should have been in big fights from the beggining. he is a very expeirenced fighter and has nothing to prove, if general ufc fans don't know him its their fault for only following one mma organisation. after the kongo fight i hope dana grows some balls and puts cro cop in big fights regardless of the outcome.

cro cop fights i wanna see before his ufc tenure is done with.

cro cop vs tim sylvia
cro cop vs randy couture
cro cop vs andrei arlovski
cro cop vs brandon vera
cro cop vs fedor II
cro cop vs fedor III (this would be the biggest trilogy in the history of mma, well in my eyes anyway)


----------



## Kameleon

*If he loses, and that's a big huge gigantic 'IF', I would like to see him in a rematch with Gonzaga. Maybe even Sylvia.*


----------



## Balls in Face

With the amount of money he's being paid, you're not allowed to lose two in a row. It's probably in that contract somewhere.


----------



## jeppagas

*The next type of fighter*

If he losses, then he have lost to both a BJJ and a kick boxing guy.
So they might try to set him up against a GNP or a wrestling guy?

But I think it probably would be against Sylvia.


----------



## RinguMaster

everything can happen, but i think he will win this one by the way of head kick knockout


----------



## Biowza

*sigh*
I really didn't think I had to repeat this. *THIS IS NOT A THREAD SAYING KONGO WILL WIN, I AM NOT SAYING CC WILL LOSE, ALL POSTS SAYING 'BUT HE WONT LOSE' ARE NOT WELCOME*

I really thought I made this clear in my original post.


----------



## Philivey2k8

If Cro Cop loses I think his next fight will be against someone in the top 10. Someone who's a contender but is still working his way up:

I can see it going against Tim Sylvia.

AA - not really. AA's won a few in a row and he's looking for a a title shot. 1 or 2 more wins and he'll get his title shot. Not really fair to give him Cro Cop, as Cro Cop lost 2 in a row (that's *IF* he loses against Kongo). 

Big Nog - nope. he'd be a few notches above Crop cop if Cro cop loses. 1 or 2 more wins for Nog and he might have a title shot. Not fair to give him Cro Cop if Cro cop loses.

Brandon Vera - I can slightly see them giving Vera Cro Cop if he loses against Kongo. But not likely.

The guy I think that's going to get Cro cop if he loses against Kongo is still Tim Sylvia. He's slightly under Vera at the moment, but good enough to fight Cro Cop and not get murdered.

If Cro Cop loses, he should still fight a top 10 guy. But a guy near the bottom 10.


----------



## Philivey2k8

Biowza said:


> *sigh*
> I really didn't think I had to repeat this. *THIS IS NOT A THREAD SAYING KONGO WILL WIN, I AM NOT SAYING CC WILL LOSE, ALL POSTS SAYING 'BUT HE WONT LOSE' ARE NOT WELCOME*
> 
> I really thought I made this clear in my original post.


whatz are u talkin' about? cro cop is going to kick kongo in the head an send him to the hospital. remember, he is an angry cro cop and you know how he kicks extra harder when he's angry and stuff. how dare you say that kongo will win! cro cop is the king of kicking and you know it. he will win this kicking kontest.






























LOL, i just had to say it


----------



## Biowza

hahaha


----------



## Sevket

I believe his retirement will come quicker if he loses. But I believe he'll win. Go left kick go!!!


----------



## Chrisl972

I could see them giving him the Sylvia fight, if Sylvia loses to Vera. But I could also see them just dropping him down to fight Herring or the someone else at that level.


----------



## Kaneda X

SuzukS said:


> Hurrr But Crocop Won't Lose Hurrrrrr


Donut. As mentioned earlier this is a hypothetical thread of if he did lose. Hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.:confused03:


----------



## MMAmatt

if he loses i think he`ll still be on televised fights and he`ll still be on main cards, UFC payed too much for him to go waste him on an undercard.

I think if he loses he`d probably still fight a big name but he wouldnt be in title contention during his fight contract with the UFC.

I highly doubt he`ll lose.


----------



## Kaneda X

I also doubt he will lose as his power is way more than Kongo's, but you just never know.


----------



## sirdilznik

If Mirko loses to Kongo then the UFC should pay some bum off the street $100 to dress up like a fighter and go against CroCop in an "undercard" bout. Then Mirko can murder the guy and get his mojo back. :thumb02:


----------



## headxsmasher

What if Dana & Fedor we're gay? What if every fighter that signed to the UFC had to suck him off? Maybe thats why Fedor is having such a hard time signing to the UFC. Do you think Fedor is going is going to give it up to Dana? What if he does do you think that it will affect his fighting? I bet Dana will make him swallow or no title fight. 

Let me get some things crystal clear first.
-Replies along the line of 'HURRRRR Fedor doesnt suck dick!,are not welcome, this is a hypothetical situation.
-I am aware that Fedor will most likely suck Dana off.
-I am not saying that Fedor isnt gay or anything.
-I am not saying that If anyone finds out it would end his career or anything-I respect him as a Homosexual


----------



## headxsmasher

i would say both situations are pretty believable


----------



## WestCoastPoutin

headxsmasher said:


> What if Dana & Fedor we're gay? What if every fighter that signed to the UFC had to suck him off? Maybe thats why Fedor is having such a hard time signing to the UFC. Do you think Fedor is going is going to give it up to Dana? What if he does do you think that it will affect his fighting? I bet Dana will make him swallow or no title fight.
> 
> Let me get some things crystal clear first.
> -Replies along the line of 'HURRRRR Fedor doesnt suck dick!,are not welcome, this is a hypothetical situation.
> -I am aware that Fedor will most likely suck Dana off.
> -I am not saying that Fedor isnt gay or anything.
> -I am not saying that If anyone finds out it would end his career or anything-I respect him as a Homosexual



I dont understand your post. 
Is this intended for adults? Have you ever had a conversation with someone over 7 years old? Im only asking. Please dont be offended, because there was an 8 year old posting on this forum earlier this year. Is this you?


ANYWAYS

Im not sure who he would fight. If he were to lose, man would his confidence go down the drain. I would imagine him thinking things like: "am I washed up" "was the competition easier in japan" "maybe Im too old"

That would be such a huge blow to his ego. Might be hard to come back from. Especially if its an embarrassing loss.

Maybe he would need a bigger name to get into that competitive mode. Have him fight AA. That would make my year. It may even make my decade if AA comes in to fight like the real badass Belarussian he is.


----------



## headxsmasher

WestCoastPoutin said:


> I dont understand your post.
> Is this intended for adults? Have you ever had a conversation with someone over 7 years old? Im only asking. Please dont be offended, because there was an 8 year old posting on this forum earlier this year. Is this you?
> 
> 
> ANYWAYS
> 
> Im not sure who he would fight. If he were to lose, man would his confidence go down the drain. I would imagine him thinking things like: "am I washed up" "was the competition easier in japan" "maybe Im too old"
> 
> That would be such a huge blow to his ego. Might be hard to come back from. Especially if its an embarrassing loss.
> 
> Maybe he would need a bigger name to get into that competitive mode. Have him fight AA. That would make my year. It may even make my decade if AA comes in to fight like the real badass Belarussian he is.



You obviously don’t understand the parallel between my post and the thread. So let me enlighten you. In his opening statement he explained that his post is only hypothetical and not to be taken literally. He also explained that he didn’t want people flaming on his thread because he wanted to hear good honest answers. However, I was reading through the post and found that almost everyone kept on saying CC is not going to lose even though he said he didn’t want to hear anyone say that. Yes, my post is ridiculous but it’s no more absurd than the opening one. No, I am not the 8 year old, thank you for trying to slam me (hypothetically speaking) you knocked some sense into my young and underdeveloped brain. Quit being so serious life is too short


----------



## UFCfan610

if CroCop does lose, this forum will be flooded with "CroCop didn't look like himself tonight" and "Kongo got lucky" threads for the next 6 months.


----------



## Damone

There's one man who can save the day if Mirko somehow loses to Kongo.


----------



## WestCoastPoutin

headxsmasher said:


> You obviously don’t understand the parallel between my post and the thread. So let me enlighten you. In his opening statement he explained that his post is only hypothetical and not to be taken literally. He also explained that he didn’t want people flaming on his thread because he wanted to hear good honest answers. However, I was reading through the post and found that almost everyone kept on saying CC is not going to lose even though he said he didn’t want to hear anyone say that. Yes, my post is ridiculous but it’s no more absurd than the opening one. No, I am not the 8 year old, thank you for trying to slam me (hypothetically speaking) you knocked some sense into my young and underdeveloped brain. Quit being so serious life is too short


I apologize. I really thought you were that kid. I dont know how to write it for you to realise I wasnt kidding. I didnt mean to offend you. I really thought you were that 8 year old kid.


----------



## headxsmasher

WestCoastPoutin said:


> I apologize. I really thought you were that kid. I dont know how to write it for you to realise I wasnt kidding. I didnt mean to offend you. I really thought you were that 8 year old kid.



It's all good


----------



## Green Scape

I dunno, a loss from Kongo can bring things down for him but no so much burn any ropes from any top contenders so they def wouldn't give him an Eddie Sanchez type again.

There's always guys like Sylvia and Vera to chop down, but a lot can happen from this fight until his next so anything's possible really. I'd love to see Mirko/AA but not so much right now.

Kongo's a pretty powerful dude, it's all striker/striker this one but I think Mirko's coming with some heat.


----------



## ssjd

I think he would fight AA but just because of his (Mirko's) big contract. If he were a random fighter then he'd fight a no name guy.

But if he wins, and Fedor is signed it's a possibility that Mirko would be "warm up" fight before the title shot.
But I would rather see Fedor win the title then have them fight.


----------



## Duffman

kds13 said:


> Has no one said Frank Edgar vs. Roger Huerta yet? :thumbsup:
> 
> I think that would be FOTN no matter what the card looks like.


thats the fight i have been wanting for so long cant believe more people havnt said anything about edgar when it comes to roger .............. edgar-ud


----------



## Gavin

Ok, why has no one mentioned Huerta VS Spencer Fisher yet? I think that would be an amazing, fast paced fight. Only problem I see with that fight is not knowing who to root for.


----------



## Tommy08

I think thta IF CC loses, the UFC might not really mess around with cans. 

I think they will maybe put him in with a striker in the hopes of getting some decent footage out of that. I would guess Tim Sylvia is a possibility, or Herring. 

Sadly the 'can' route in an attempt to pump CC at that point is a good possibility as well, since the UFC does glamorize things a bit instead of running fights according to rankings.


----------



## Robopencil

Lose? Perish the thought...


----------



## southpaw447

He needs to fight a top 155er. I want to see him fight Tyson Griffin or Aurelio


----------



## SuzukS

Biowza said:


> *sigh*
> I really didn't think I had to repeat this. THIS IS NOT A THREAD SAYING KONGO WILL WIN, I AM NOT SAYING CC WILL LOSE, ALL POSTS SAYING 'BUT HE WONT LOSE' ARE NOT WELCOME
> 
> I really thought I made this clear in my original post.


let me guess, you neg repped me for my comment? its called sarcasm..


----------



## Biowza

I didn't neg rep you at all...


----------



## Biowza

Pretty simple really. Do you guys think that the UFC should keep their current entrace system of having the fighters enter the octagon through some sort of tunnel? Or should they attempt to go back to the stage, where fighters could employ some pyrotechnics and make the entrace a bit more exciting.

It doesn't really bother me too much tbh, but I would like to see the UFC go back make a bit more of an effort with their entraces. It could make big fights much bigger, provide some extra entertainment for the fans, boost the adrenaline of the fighters, and it would be aesthetically pleasing for the viewer at home.


----------



## BHShaman

I like a little bit of theatrics.
I like getting a sense of the fighters personality.
It just can not get to be so showy that it attempts to upstage the fight itself.


----------



## Alienspy

Remember the bj penn vs uno fight? LoL that was hawt. Run in as fast as you can, throw some punches in your opponents face in 10 secs, Run back up the ramp as fast as you can. Thats how i remember those stage entrances.


----------



## hommage1985

No they shouldn't. The stage costs too much money. Where the stage is they are losing money on seats. That money should also be spent on the fighters.


----------



## hommage1985

Alienspy said:


> Remember the bj penn vs uno fight? LoL that was hawt. Run in as fast as you can, throw some punches in your opponents face in 10 secs, Run back up the ramp as fast as you can. Thats how i remember those stage entrances.


Damn i love that fight. I was so impressed with Penns calmness when Uno charged him.


----------



## SuzukS

I think they should, it gives the show a more 'big time' feel. Like when I watch the UFC fighters entrances, it could easily be mistaken for some minor league show. An entrance ramp like from UFC 40 should be used.


----------



## hommage1985

SuzukS said:


> I think they should, it gives the show a more 'big time' feel. Like when I watch the UFC fighters entrances, it could easily be mistaken for some minor league show. An entrance ramp like from UFC 40 should be used.


Watch WWF if you want to see a stage. If you want to watch real fighting watch UFC or boxing.


----------



## cdtcpl

I wish for the main fight, and only the main fight, that they did. All they do now is turn out the lights, play a little music, and then turn them back on. I would like a little more build up for the main fight.


----------



## Chrisl972

I would be all for having a stage. I think that it does bring another level of excitment. 

If anyone things that having a stage makes it the WWE, that's just stupid. What happens in the cage is what makes a fight a fight.


----------



## keylocke

They use a stage at some boxing events. I've noticed that all the big boxing bouts in Cardiff use a stage. Prince Nassem always had a huge entrance when he was boxing.

I like the big stage entrances, but it is kinda too similiar to WWE and UFC wants to look as legitimate a sport as it can, so that probably why they make it look more like your standard boxing match with entrances from the arena doors.


----------



## CTFlyingKnee

hommage1985 said:


> Watch WWF if you want to see a stage. If you want to watch real fighting watch UFC or boxing.



um what?

anyway, I liked the stage alot, wouldnt mind seeing it make a comeback but im not losing sleep if it doesnt


----------



## The Fetus

A stage with the big screen in the back and pyro for the main events like was used in the UFC 30s-40s era would certainly give the fights more energy and that big time feel.


----------



## MADDSNIPER

i also like the idea of a stage.


----------



## Brydon

Unholy FD3S said:


> Pride.....
> 
> thats all, i wish UFC had Pride style entrances and openings.
> 
> instead of that gay gladiator video.


Why not combine the two. Why not have the opening as a homesexual gladiator walking out to pyrotechnics, flashing lights and YMCA?


----------



## Terry77

If they do, they can't use it for every show. After Couture beat Liddell it's like the ufc said "yeah this is to pro wrestling-ish for us". They clearly wanted to be considered a legit sport, and felt that never helped. That being said, I've seen boxing utilize a ramp for a Klitschko fight. I'd like to see them up production value for maybe the new year's eve card every year, give it that atmosphere.


----------



## ROCKBASS03

Biowza said:


> Thats a bit unfair to say. PRIDE had entrances that rivaled WWE, their theatrics are arguably what made them so fun to watch (besides fighters). You can easily have 'real fighting' and at the same time, spend some money to make the fighters feel more important and give a whole boost to the crowd. I've noticed that even when big names come out, the crowd doesn't really go that nuts. I think with a stage and some simple but effective pryos, you could really set a crowd off.


Do you really think it will make the fighters feel more important?


The way it is now works. They are fighting, not wrestling WWE style where it all revolves around the crowd participation. If you want a show for the fighter to come out, watch wrestling. The UFC fighters I am sure would rather keep it low keyed than to make a big show out of walking to the Octagon. Most of them come out focused, not showboating


----------



## Terry77

Unholy FD3S said:


> pride had big entrances, did people think that was like WWE ?


Pride was made and built by pro wrestlers. Japan is all about the showmanship, the huge ramp kind of helped with crowds excess of 40 thousand.


----------



## Aaronyman

Biowza said:


> Thats a bit unfair to say. PRIDE had entrances that rivaled WWE, their theatrics are arguably what made them so fun to watch (besides fighters). You can easily have 'real fighting' and at the same time, spend some money to make the fighters feel more important and give a whole boost to the crowd. I've noticed that even when big names come out, the crowd doesn't really go that nuts. I think with a stage and some simple but effective pryos, you could really set a crowd off.


agreed and repped


----------



## e-thug

Meh,, not too too bothered to be honest.

I dont mind the tunnel entrance. I wouldnt mind the big stage either...although it does take away a bit of the seating.

I must say, I do like Chucks entrance music...love me some old school DMX!


----------



## Ulio

Biowza said:


> Thats a bit unfair to say. PRIDE had entrances that rivaled WWE, their theatrics are arguably what made them so fun to watch (besides fighters). You can easily have 'real fighting' and at the same time, spend some money to make the fighters feel more important and give a whole boost to the crowd. I've noticed that even when big names come out, the crowd doesn't really go that nuts. I think with a stage and some simple but effective pryos, you could really set a crowd off.


Ya i think pridefc was owed by dream stage entertainment thats why maybe they do stage etc . I think pride was bit to much but was good that could one of the reasons why the company went bankrupt.


----------



## Biowza

ROCKBASS03 said:


> Do you really think it will make the fighters feel more important?
> 
> 
> The way it is now works. They are fighting, not wrestling WWE style where it all revolves around the crowd participation. If you want a show for the fighter to come out, watch wrestling. The UFC fighters I am sure would rather keep it low keyed than to make a big show out of walking to the Octagon. Most of them come out focused, not showboating


I do think that it would make the fighters feel more important. Coming out on a stage, being the centre of attention with your music playing must be a bigger rush then coming out of some sort of matinence tunnel. It would also be better for the fans, as they would be able to see the fighters easier. 

Why all the links to WWE? Why are you even comparing the two? They are two entirely different things and I don't think that the UFC even needs to worry about looking like the WWE. I don't understand why wrestling is the only 'sport' that can have interesting presentation. It won't harm the UFC by making a little bit of an effort with their entraces.


----------



## Cowmilker

dude bringin back the stage would be tight!!!! it would make the fights so much more exciting..plus the fighters would get pumped way more than they do now cuz the entrances now that they got are boring man..


----------



## SlaveTrade

DO IT!! This might tempt Genki Sudo to come out of retirement and join the UFC.

I really think the people that pay to actually go to the events would mind a flashy entrance. Don't you?

I personally think that the more personality a fighter shows, the better.

I'd be all for it.


----------



## veilside23

makes me wonder why did they remove it in the first place? lack of seat? hmmm but it be great to have before the real fight..


----------



## Biowza

*If Anderson Silva wins...*

Who would the UFC give him for his next title shot? I mean, there plenty of people in the Middleweight division but no-one really compares (skill-wise) to Anderson Silva. Would it just be another Silva v Franklin? or would someone else come up. The MW division has some exciting fighters imo, but just not talented on the level of the other divisions.

-Okami
-Grove
-Cote
-Leben
-Martin
-Sell
-Quarry

Are just a few off the top of my head that are exciting, but can any really compete with Anderson Silva? Who do you see as next in line for the MW title should Rich Franklin lose at UFC 77?

KEEP IN MIND
-This thread isn't about who will win, its assuming Anderson wins.
-Dan Henderson has said he is staying at 205, so don't count him.
-For the moment, try to pick fighters out of the current UFC pool ie. No-one who could come in from another org.


----------



## NCK

I'd give Kendall Grove a shot, tbh.


----------



## The Fetus

Grove just got beaten down by Patrick Cote.


----------



## NCK

Ah, I forgot about that.

Tough choice then.

Well, Quarry KO'd Sell that's Sell and Grove gone.

Martin is gone, KO'd by Lebben.

Okami just lost to Rich so it's probably a toss up between Lebben and Quarry.

Or Jason McDonald if he beats Okami at 77.


----------



## Slug

you guys pratically named all the middleweights in the ufc. lol, the middleweight division is very weak.. they need some new recruits.


----------



## SpoKen

I wanna see Leben fight fight Silva again. I don't think he can win, but I would love to see him do better in the fight. I think he is a brand new fighter. What I saw in the Terry Martin fight blown me away.

WAR LEBEN!!!


----------



## wukkadb

Jacare


----------



## slapshot

Ed Herman’s got to be in the mix if he wins his next fight.
Quarry might be the most competitive of the bunch but I have a hard time envisioning any of them beating Silva.


----------



## capt_america

man you forget someone..

Henderson

yes he lost to Rampage but IMO he is still a contender. i think he need 1 fight before challenging the MW champ.

another guy in my mind is Martin Kampmann.


----------



## slapshot

Henderson said he was staying at 205.


----------



## sirdilznik

The best fight would be Dan Henderson, but since he's staying at 205, and Frank Shamrock ain't happening, then I'd go with Jushin Okami.

Anderson Silva vs. Frank Shamrock would be so sick though... *sigh*


----------



## SuzukS

The winner of Okami vs. Macdonald should challenge for the title next since no one else is really deserving of a title shot.


----------



## Okami-Fan

i don't want Leben to get it yet...b/c i don't want him to get beatdown to bad...i say give it to Okami


----------



## IhitU.uHITfloor

should okami win, i would give it to him, other than that we will have to wait for jacare to come over and get a win or two before anderson silva will even have a decent challenger outside of franklin.


----------



## bbjd7

jacare isn't signing with the UFC he is negotiating with Zuffa about signing with the WEC but not UFC. I think Okami vs Macdonald winner should get the shot. If Swick was still in the MW divison and he won one fight I would say that he should get it since he earned a shot and TUF 4 took it away.


----------



## wafb

Kampmann should have fully recovered from his injury by the time Anderson(if he beats Ace)is ready to defend the belt again.


----------



## kds13

I really think the UFC is gonna be on Hendo's butt until they get him to move down to 185. 

Kampmann would be a great choice. He was gonna face Rich Franklin before his injury. The winner of Okami/MacDonald would be the next choice but it may be a hard sell. 

Jacare probably would not get an immediate shot if he signed. And really, he hasn't signed yet so thats still up in the air.


----------



## iSHACKABUKU

I know its probably too soon, but id like to see Cota in there against Silva, i dont think he would win but i think he delivers a good shot at the title with his hands and kicks!


----------



## Flak

Winner of Okami vs McDonald. Then assuming Cote wins his next bout - his turn.

Okami has a good style for Silva though. I think that would be an interesting matchup. Styles make fights and all that stuff.


----------



## hollando

NCK said:


> I'd give Kendall Grove a shot, tbh.


grove just lost to cote 

shouldnt cote be ranked hire for contention


----------



## hollando

capt_america said:


> man you forget someone..
> 
> Henderson
> 
> yes he lost to Rampage but IMO he is still a contender. i think he need 1 fight before challenging the MW champ.
> 
> another guy in my mind is Martin Kampmann.


you are not all about reading entire posts? lol


----------



## The Fetus

I'd say give the winner of Okami-McDonald the next shot.


They should have Cote fight Quarry to determine the next guy in line. By then Kampmann will be back and in the mix as well. He could easily get a shot if he wins one or two fights. 


Leben is out of the running for now as he has lost 3 of his last 5 fights. He needs a few more wins before he gets a title shot.


----------



## Couchwarrior

Well Okami has already beaten Silva once, so he should get a chance to do it again...:wink01:

There seems to be only one person who doesn't think the next in line for a title shot should be Henderson, and that person is Henderson himself. I don't know if he hates losing weight or if he's afraid to get a nose that matches his ears, but I think he should give it a shot.

If not, I guess Kampmann or McFedries would be the most interesting candidates, if it wasn't for the fact that Kampmanns knee is destroyed and McFedries had to cut a huge piece of rotten meat from his leg, so I don't know when either one of them is coming back.

Or they should take in somebody that isn't in the UFC yet. It seems like anybody that is available in the MW division, matched against Silva, is just like throwing a rabbit into the lion cage.


----------



## hollando

Couchwarrior said:


> Well Okami has already beaten Silva once, so he should get a chance to do it again...:wink01:
> 
> There seems to be only one person who doesn't think the next in line for a title shot should be Henderson, and that person is Henderson himself. I don't know if he hates losing weight or if he's afraid to get a nose that matches his ears, but I think he should give it a shot.
> 
> If not, I guess Kampmann or McFedries would be the most interesting candidates, if it wasn't for the fact that Kampmanns knee is destroyed and McFedries had to cut a huge piece of rotten meat from his leg, so I don't know when either one of them is coming back.
> 
> Or they should take in somebody that isn't in the UFC yet. It seems like anybody that is available in the MW division, matched against Silva, is just like throwing a rabbit into the lion cage.


whoa whoa whoa

now im not silva nuthugger

but lets get this straight 

okami didnt beat silva......silva beat himself.....and in turn gave okami the win.....now i do agree that he was in trouble before he was DQ.....but it remains that okami did not BEAT silva 

i do concur...it kinda seems like noone even really wants to fight silva....everyone is hoping that the next guy will do so they wont have to


----------



## ashokjr

How about Kalib Starnes? He holds a win against Leben


----------



## crispin1003

i thought swick was only dropping to 170 for that fight but was staying MW. he had quick wins againt some gd names before the loss to okami. hes a contender in my opinion. name recognition aswell.


----------



## joho5

id like to see GSP put on 15 and fight him. On a technical standpoint, he is about the only one who is up there with A Silva. So, it probably wont happens, but that would be a good matchup I think.


----------



## GMW

joho5 said:


> id like to see GSP put on 15 and fight him. On a technical standpoint, he is about the only one who is up there with A Silva. So, it probably wont happens, but that would be a good matchup I think.


 I wouldn't be surprised if Anderson and GSP walk around the same weight. And I'd easily give strength advantage to GSP.
That could be a very good fight.


----------



## iSHACKABUKU

That fight would be difficult for me to watch, only because im such a HUGE fan of both fighters!! lol


----------



## GMW

iSHACKABUKU said:


> That fight would be difficult for me to watch, only because im such a HUGE fan of both fighters!! lol


if you are referring to GSP vs silva I definitely am in the same boat as you. Enormous fans of both, there both in my top 3 favorite fighters at this point.


----------



## All-Star

Probably Okami (if he wins) because:

1) Okami has a DQ win over Silva
2) He has only lost once in the UFC and it was against Franklin (who he almost finished)
3) He is the most established fighter in the current middleweight division (Kendall and Martin were looking good but then they got KO'd)


----------



## bbjd7

Swick wants to fight at WW and I'm pretty sure he plans on staying there unless he gets a shot at Leben

GSP would be intersting but I highly doubt Dana would let that happen since he is the #1 contender for the WW belt

I think it's gotta be either Okami vs Macdonald winner or Henderson.


----------



## Iceman_666

GMW said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if Anderson and GSP walk around the same weight. And I'd easily give strength advantage to GSP.
> That could be a very good fight.


GSP walks around at 185ish and he has said before that he would like to one day move up an challenge for the title. Man that would be sick eh!


----------



## sleeptones

Theres no way Cote should be in the running he had a four fight losing streak before his recent two wins, hes 2-4 in the UFC he has a ways to go, KO'ing Grove doesnt put you at number one contender. It's gotta be Quarry,Swick, Okami, or Leban, but most likely Quarry, Okami and McDonald have been both beat by Franklin, and if Franklin loses... well there you go.. I'd like to see McFredries up there though.


----------



## Flak

This question really highlights how sucky the MW division really is. You have 2 dominant guys way above everyone else, and a massive rift inbetween them.

Franklin can walk through everyone, except Silva. If he loses - what does that make him? Where does he go? Hang out fighting up and comers until they give him a 3rd fight with Anderson? It's such a weird situation.

There isn't a bridge between the two levels.


----------



## gdog43

A Silva vs Okami - that should be the next fight if both those guys win at ufc 77

A Silva vs McFedries - standup war- i would love to see that fight

A Silva vs Kampmann- Kampmann is tough and took some of drew mcfedries best shots- that would be interesting fight

Love to see Henderson vs Silva- biggest MW fight ever that one, Bisping vs silva in england: that would be hostile territory for sure but silva takes it

And last one is Matt Hughes swansong fight- keeps saying he wants anderson- if there was a shortage of contenders (like now) then Matt Hughes would be a good fight in between times


----------



## KenFl07

If they weren't training partners or whatever, I would like to see UFC Middleweight Champion, Anderson Silva vs. WEC Middleweight Champion, Paulo Filho. That would be a good fight to see. I don't think a cross over fight between WEC or UFC would happen though. Not this soon in the young history of the WEC anyways.

I'll run down the list real quick of all the names I can think of in the Middleweight division:

Rich Franklin (If Anderson wins, obviously he wouldn't get another shot right away)

Martin Kampmann (Out until sometime in '08. Also needs a big name win in order to be in title contention)

Yushin Okami (Lost to Franklin, but defeated Anderson Silva in another promotion. Could be next in line with a win over Jason MacDonald)

Jason MacDonald (Lost to Franklin. Win against Okami could put him one step closer, but I'm not sure he would be a legit contender with a win over just Okami)

Chris Leben (Decisive win against Terry Martin at the last UFN. Was already torn apart by Anderson Silva. Can they really sell another fight between these two??)

Mike Swick (Was moving up the ranks. Lost to Okami and is now moving down to Welterweight)

Terry Martin (Nice fight with Leben, but gassed out in 3rd and was viciously KO'd. No need for him to step into the Octagon with the man who brutally demolished Leben)

Kendall Grove (Again, moved up the ranks and had some great fights with Alan Belcher and others. Lost to Patrick Cote and lost contention)

Alan Belcher (Rogan has called this guy the future of the Middleweight division, and although I would agree that he is a great fighter and is bound to improve, fact is is that he has two losses to bigger names in the division. He has lost to Okami and was choked out by Kendall Grove. He has an upcoming fight against Kalib Starnes, so if he wins this, it could put him a step closer I guess, but not in direct contention)

Kalib Starnes (Decent UFC career so far. Has a win against Jason Macdonald in another promotion before being on TUF 3. Lost to Okami in his first fight however. Has recently beat Chris Leben and a win over Belcher could put him fairly close to the title. Plus he has that "TUF" advantage that would make him a more marketable challenger)

Dave Terrell (Making his return to the UFC Middleweight division at UFC 78. Has a brutal win over Matt Lindland in his first UFC fight. Only loss is to Evan Tanner in 2005 for the vacant, at the time, Middleweight title. A win over Ed Herman at UFC 78 could throw him into the picture, with that win being his second in a row in the UFC)


Out of all these names, the only ones that stand out to me could be: Kampmann (upon return and one big fight), Okami, Starnes, "possibly" Grove or Belcher, or Terrell.

Also, I don't know if the UFC are really viewing Okami or Macdonald as the next in line. If they were, don't you think their fight would be on the main card instead of the prelim?? How are they going to sell the fight if the challenger wasn't even main card worthy in his last fight??


----------



## l3ft3lbow

I think Anderson would laugh if he was told he was going to fight Leben again.


----------



## Couchwarrior

hollando said:


> whoa whoa whoa
> 
> now im not silva nuthugger
> 
> but lets get this straight
> 
> okami didnt beat silva......silva beat himself.....and in turn gave okami the win.....now i do agree that he was in trouble before he was DQ.....but it remains that okami did not BEAT silva
> 
> i do concur...it kinda seems like noone even really wants to fight silva....everyone is hoping that the next guy will do so they wont have to


I agree... That was what I tried to express with the winking smiley.


----------



## veilside23

hahaha i really like how dana white emphasize that if you're a MW and you want to fight for the title and you will be up against anderson silva " huh (with the clown look in white's face) that sucks (and smiles). to sum it up ideally without adding more people to Mw only franklin has what it takes to put up a good fight against silva.


----------



## ID06

Flak said:


> Winner of Okami vs McDonald. Then assuming Cote wins his next bout - his turn.
> 
> Okami has a good style for Silva though. I think that would be an interesting matchup. Styles make fights and all that stuff.


Silva is on a whole nother level than Okami.


----------



## Bonnar426

Win or Lose I think Anderson Silva would face Yushin Okami next! They probably will spin this whole "Anderson is on the road to revenge thing (sort of what they were doing with Chuck and Rampage)." Of course Okami would have to beat Macdonald (No doubt in my mind that is what will happen)


----------



## hollando

sleeptones said:


> Theres no way Cote should be in the running he had a four fight losing streak before his recent two wins, hes 2-4 in the UFC he has a ways to go, KO'ing Grove doesnt put you at number one contender. It's gotta be Quarry,Swick, Okami, or Leban, but most likely Quarry, Okami and McDonald have been both beat by Franklin, and if Franklin loses... well there you go.. I'd like to see McFredries up there though.


i agree but cote should be above grove


----------



## iSHACKABUKU

I was just wondering if you knew about the mistake in this threads title?

I believe its When Anderson Silva wins!


----------



## southpaw447

Here are my top 3 

1) Martin Kampmann

2) Drew McFedris (IMO this would be the best fight excitement wise) Two guys who love to stand

3) Jason MacDonald


----------



## Flak

Iron Daisy06 said:


> Silva is on a whole nother level than Okami.


You think so? Okami was doing pretty well in their first fight before the up kick. Or are you saying that because Rich beat him and Anderson smashed Rich?


----------



## ID06

Yushin was getting the crap kicked out of him by Silva, the only reason it even went to the ground with Silva on the bottom was because he was probably just bored of beating on Yushin.


----------



## Biowza

*Anyone else more excited for Brock's debut?*

Simply put, is anyone else more excited for Brock Lesnar vs Frank Mir than for Tim Sylvia vs Antonio Nogueira? I know I am and I get a feeling that there are a lot of people on the forum who are with me, whether they are willing to admit it or not. 

Now on to Nogueira vs Sylvia which I think has the potential to be a real snore fest. I realise its for the interim heavyweight title but really, does it really matter in the long run who is champion? No, I personally don't think so. We don't remember champions, we remember good and interesting fights. I couldn't really care less who was champion in each division, as long as we saw great fights. Nog has never been finished and Sylvia doesn't really look like he is getting subbed. So this fight is most likely going to go for 5 rounds of Tim Sylvia cage-humping. 
This fight really isn't interesting either. I mean it's not like Houston Alexander vs Thiago Silva where there are questions to be answered or another title fight such as Couture vs Gonzaga where we could see if Couture "still has it" and if Gonzaga can replicate his Mirko killing. Added onto that, its the interim title which personally I see as a pretty pointless thing seeing as the title doesn't do anything. The way I see it make it a #1 contender fight, or make it the real title.

Now onto Brock vs Mir which dominates talk on this forum with a thread ratio of about 3:1. This fight I actually see as interesting, stylistically as well as in terms of progression of the HW division. 
We get to see which fighter is "for real". Is it the pro-wrestler with his solid wrestling background, with the athletically gifted frame? Or the experienced former HW champion with his sick subs and BJJ skills? As well as this, we have an X factor which is of course, the stand up. Mir never really being a stand-up fighter and Brock we can assume would not be really concentrating on that either. But the fight starts standing, and who knows what Brock has been training for 2 years, we might see the emergence of a new MMA superstar just as well as we might see the resurgance of a former champion. 

Of course there will be people that say "Oh if you aren't as interested in a HW title fight, then you're not an MMA fan" but really, stylistically, and progessivly (at least in my eyes) the Lesnar vs Mir fight is more interesting. Nogueira vs Sylvia looks like it really has the potential to be a snore fest whereas even if Mir vs Lesnar is a snore fest, we can actually see which fighter is legit. Of course, this isn't to say I'm not excited for the Sylvia/Nog fight. I still want to see the fight, I love watching Nogueira fight and really hope he pounds the crap out of Sylvia. It's just, I'm more excited for Lesnar's debut. 

So, which are you more excited for?


----------



## MLS

I think Im startin to lean towards Brock becasue I am just interested to see what he's got. And it also help that he is fighting Mir, I'm a Mir fan so I want him to win. But to see what Brock has to bring is getting me more interested.


----------



## silvawand

I dunno. I'm really interested to see how Sylvia/Nogueira plays out, it definitely has potential to be a snoozefest (as do all Tim's present performances), but something tells me it's going to surprise everyone. A lot of the times it seems hyped fights don't live up to hype, and fights that everyone thinks will suck turn out to be great. Doesn't always happen, but sometimes.

Anyways, I'm interested to see Brock's debut, really hoping he just get's arm barred in the 1st round, but still interested. I can't wait for Sylvia/Nog either. I'm gonna go with Sylvia/Nog, just because I really have a feeling it's going to better than we all think.


----------



## The Legend

I want to see Lesnar/Mir more because I think as a lot of other people see if Brock back up all the trash he is talking and I am a really big Mir fan. I'm also looking forward to the main event hopefully Sylvia can finish Nog but I expect a UD for Sylvia.


----------



## cabby

I will always appreciate 2 seasoned fighters over a freakshow but I am still looking forward to Lesnar's debut. Even after all the hype Lesnar/Mir has gotten lately still gotta be Big Nog/Sylvia.


----------



## JT42

Without a doubt, Nogueira and Sylvia


----------



## Rated

Hell yeah, I'm definitely interested in the outcome of the Lesnar-Mir fight. Don't get me wrong, I'm always excited about Big Nog and I actually don't hate Tim Sylvia like most of the other members ... but I'm just really interested to see if Brock can live up to the hype.


----------



## kds13

Put simply: hell no.

To me, Sylvia vs. Nog was one of the great match-ups we thought would happen with the buyout of PRIDE. To me, its still a "Super Bowl of MMA" type match. No way can Lesnar's debut beat that in my mind.


----------



## Lloyd

I'm more excited about the debut of Brock Lesnar. The fact that anything could happen in this matchup brings the excitement. Whereas the Big Nog vs. Sylvia fight, everyone pretty much knows the scenario. 

On another note i'm really hoping Big Nog beats Tim Sylvia in impressive fashion so maybe Randy Couture will be enticed to come back.


----------



## Wise

Two top five heavyweights fighting for the UFC title destroys a freak show fighter going against a guy who cant lay off the krispy kreams.


----------



## GanjaGuru

I am looking forward to the Lesnar/Mir bout the most.

People give Lesnar a hard time and say he aint got skill. Fact is the guy dos have some skill and even if he loses which I wouldn't be surprised since he is rather inexperience in MMA so if he can at least put on a good show he will be back.


----------



## PrideFan123

I'm more excited about Nog/Sylvia. I'm still pretty curious about how Lesnar will do.


----------



## fernando234

Biowza said:


> Simply put, is anyone else more excited for Brock Lesnar vs Frank Mir than for Tim Sylvia vs Antonio Nogueira? I know I am and I get a feeling that there are a lot of people on the forum who are with me, whether they are willing to admit it or not.
> 
> Now on to Nogueira vs Sylvia which I think has the potential to be a real snore fest. I realise its for the interim heavyweight title but really, does it really matter in the long run who is champion? No, I personally don't think so. We don't remember champions, we remember good and interesting fights. I couldn't really care less who was champion in each division, as long as we saw great fights. Nog has never been finished and Sylvia doesn't really look like he is getting subbed. So this fight is most likely going to go for 5 rounds of Tim Sylvia cage-humping.
> This fight really isn't interesting either. I mean it's not like Houston Alexander vs Thiago Silva where there are questions to be answered or another title fight such as Couture vs Gonzaga where we could see if Couture "still has it" and if Gonzaga can replicate his Mirko killing. Added onto that, its the interim title which personally I see as a pretty pointless thing seeing as the title doesn't do anything. The way I see it make it a #1 contender fight, or make it the real title.
> 
> Now onto Brock vs Mir which dominates talk on this forum with a thread ratio of about 3:1. This fight I actually see as interesting, stylistically as well as in terms of progression of the HW division.
> We get to see which fighter is "for real". Is it the pro-wrestler with his solid wrestling background, with the athletically gifted frame? Or the experienced former HW champion with his sick subs and BJJ skills? As well as this, we have an X factor which is of course, the stand up. Mir never really being a stand-up fighter and Brock we can assume would not be really concentrating on that either. But the fight starts standing, and who knows what Brock has been training for 2 years, we might see the emergence of a new MMA superstar just as well as we might see the resurgance of a former champion.
> 
> Of course there will be people that say "Oh if you aren't as interested in a HW title fight, then you're not an MMA fan" but really, stylistically, and progessivly (at least in my eyes) the Lesnar vs Mir fight is more interesting. Nogueira vs Sylvia looks like it really has the potential to be a snore fest whereas even if Mir vs Lesnar is a snore fest, we can actually see which fighter is legit. Of course, this isn't to say I'm not excited for the Sylvia/Nog fight. I still want to see the fight, I love watching Nogueira fight and really hope he pounds the crap out of Sylvia. It's just, I'm more excited for Lesnar's debut.
> 
> So, which are you more excited for?


Good Post. Repped.

I too am more excitied on the Frank Mir v Brock fight, simply put as there are ALOT of unknowns and QUESTIONS will be answered. Is Mir training hard? Does he have it in him to come back to the top of the divison? Then comes the questions about Brock. We've only seen him in 1 fight...so we really dont know what to expect  cant wait..should b great fight. It will either end first round via submission mir...or first round tko by Brock me thinks by GnP.


----------



## Tommy08

Tim Sylvia is not exciting too watch...Lesnar figthing is soemthing that MIGHT show us the future of the division. There is a lot more talk about Lesnar Mir.

In pure excitement I want to see Lesnar Mir more. I also want to see the decision win which will be TS/Nog.


----------



## vandalian

I've become very interested in how Brock does, but I'm getting annoyed at how UFC is marketing this pay per view. 
Sure, Brock could swing fans to the company, but that doesn't change the fact that Sylvia vs. Nogueira is _a title fight_. Recent TV spots would have you believe otherwise.
Maybe it's partly because UFC wants to draw attention away from the whole mess with Randy...


----------



## SonofJor-El

Title fight or not, this is how I feel for every Tim Sylvia fight: :sarcastic11:


----------



## coldcall420

So I was reading that Sobral was callin Tito out and I thought to myself...why would Tito go to Elite XC when he could fight at what I thought was a way better production by Affliction than any Elite XC card....bottom line what do you guys think....


----------



## stitch1z

Affliction all the way.

Like it or not, a lot more fighters are going to be heading that way.


----------



## _RIVAL_

Tito loves the money = Affliction

Tito loves the camera = EliteXC

Well damn, now I honestly can't call it. :thumbsdown:


----------



## Chipper

If Tito signed for Affliction...wow.

Tito Ortiz and Fedor Emelianenko in the same organisation. Dana would start to panic.


----------



## The Finisher

Tito vs Babalu would be an amazing fight. 

Affliction would be stupid not to pay him a lot of money. The guy is one of the biggest stars in all of MMA.


----------



## enochian

he is going to affliction,
trump supports affliction,
tito was on the apprentice.
tito sat next to trump during banned.


----------



## coldcall420

I think the money is obviously the most important thing to Tito even more than his legacy....but I think that the caliber of the promotion that Affliction puts on is alot better than Elite XC and I feel like it would be a stain to finish his career in Elite XC.......:dunno:


----------



## _RIVAL_

enochian said:


> he is going to affliction,
> trump supports affliction,
> tito was on the apprentice.
> tito sat next to trump during banned.




Tito was wearing a suit.
Donald was wearing a suit.
Jenna had on white.
Donalds socks were white.
Tito has blonde hair.
Donald likes blondes.
Tito's going to Affliction.


----------



## mercom

tito will continue to RUIN his legacy with affliction :bye02:


----------



## enochian

wasnt tito saying before his fight with machida that he would start his own promotion?


----------



## e-thug

I think Tito will go where the big money fights are. He will definetly fight Frank Shamrock and I think a fight wit Babalu should definetly happen. He will prolly sign a contract that allows him to fight in other shows.


----------



## coldcall420

J.P. said:


> Tito was wearing a suit.
> Donald was wearing a suit.
> Jenna had on white.
> Donalds socks were white.
> Tito has blonde hair.
> Donald likes blondes.
> Tito's going to Affliction.


lol...good shit J.P........I was wonderin if he had been seen at any of these events.....:thumb02:


----------



## Celtic16

Tito is the most over rated fighter in this history of the sport. The best thing he could do now would be win a few fights and retire. he's controversial enought to make it as a commentator


----------



## coldcall420

enochian said:


> wasnt tito saying before his fight with machida that he would start his own promotion?


Yeah and Im glad you brought that up....I kinda posted this poll with the mindset that Tito (i hope) would want to finish his career with a promotion that is on par with or above UFC....i think if he started his own promotion it wouldnt be anywhere as sucessful as Affliction, I think it would be below Elite XC standards....and I just thought that people would rather see him in a good promotion not just one that makes him the most money......:dunno:


----------



## shatterproof

i imagine Tito will sign with affliction, who will pay him a nice chunk of chedda for the PPV draw he brings to the table. who knows... maybe he will screw his head on strait and get back to work instead of writing bad one-liners and producing 'stripper zombie' movies... maybe win a decent fight or two.


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5

J.P. said:


> Tito was wearing a suit.
> Donald was wearing a suit.
> Jenna had on white.
> Donalds socks were white.
> Tito has blonde hair.
> Donald likes blondes.
> Tito's going to Affliction.


lol thats one of the funniest posts ive ever read


----------



## Toxic

I cant believe so many people actually think Tito will go to Affliction, Tito is gonna end up in Elite XC, in Affliction Tito would be just another piece in the puzzle, another marquee name on a stacked card, in Elite XC it would be all about Tito, all the hype and advertising would center on Tito and Tito alone, Ortiz's and Jenna's egos dictate he is headed to Elite XC.


----------



## _RIVAL_

Toxic said:


> I cant believe so many people actually think Tito will go to Affliction, Tito is gonna end up in Elite XC, in Affliction Tito would be just another piece in the puzzle, another marquee name on a stacked card, in Elite XC it would be all about Tito, all the hype and advertising would center on Tito and Tito alone, Ortiz's and Jenna's egos dictate he is headed to Elite XC.



He loves being the center of attention, so I really can see where you're coming from on that.

One of his beefs with Dana was, and I quote..."they don't put me on T.V. enough".


----------



## nissassagame

Tito has a legacy?!
He's headed to Affliction and hopefully Babalu will sink in the Anaconda and not let go, at all.


----------



## slapshot

nissassagame said:


> Tito has a legacy?!
> He's headed to Affliction and hopefully Babalu will sink in the Anaconda and not let go, at all.


We can only hope, stop teasing.


----------



## Hett

Tito belongs in Allfiction, full of other mostly washed up old UFC fighters.


----------



## Davisty69

I say Affliction, because I really want Affliction to succede. With a good lineup of fighters that isn't limited to Banned's HW roster, Affliction could catch up to the UFC quickly.


----------



## Hett

J.P. said:


> Tito was wearing a suit.
> Donald was wearing a suit.
> Jenna had on white.
> Donalds socks were white.
> Tito has blonde hair.
> Donald likes blondes.
> Tito's going to Affliction.


You forgot

Jenna has fake boobs
Donald has fake hair
Donald sleeps with younger women
Jenna has slept with everyone


----------



## enochian

Hett said:


> Tito belongs in Allfiction, full of other mostly washed up old UFC fighters.


what?
washed up?
i beg to differ.
oh wait nvm i see your talking about all-fiction.


----------



## _RIVAL_

EliteXC really could use another LHW. It's a good place for Tito.


----------



## raymardo

Legacy.

Wow. That's a strong word. 

Legacy. I had to type it again. 

Go Tito. People use your name in the same breath as Legacy, like Ali. That's cool for Tito. I wouldn't have thought it, but I guess it's legitimate. Tito has done a lot for MMA. He's a pioneer and still pretty competitive. 

Due to his relationship with Donald Trump, I think we'll see Tito fighting for Affliction.


----------



## TERMINATOR

does anyone know when the hell he is suppose to make up his mind?


----------



## Grappler125

I think that TIto is a pretty good fit at Affliction. Affliction needs big names outside of the heavyweight division to sell PPV to get their promotion off of the ground, and regardless of what people think about his fighting ability, Tito does sell PPV's. It's a proven fact. I also kind of think, somewhere behind all of Tito's narcissism, he really wants to be a champion again before he retires. I think Affliction is a good place for him to try to win another title, while also helping build Affliction's reputation like he did in the UFC.


----------



## js9234

I think he'll go to Affliction. He's gotten pretty underrated on here. I think he still has a few good fighting years left.


----------



## lazer

well it looked like Affliction has the money behind them ..and I think Tito likes the money ...and from what the fighters made it must be a serious avenue for a fighter that still seems to have a draw.

Who knows if Affliction will continue to give those kind of payouts ..but it must have a lot of heads turning these days


----------



## The Legend

I think you should of put UFC as an option or start his own promotion also since those have been rumored also. Honestly I don't know, I want him to go back to the UFC especially now that Forrest is the champ, but out of the two you gave us I chose EliteXC because I just can't picture Tito fighting in a ring instead of a cage.


----------



## vandalian

How many decent fights does he have in EliteXC?

Hell, how many does he have in Affliction?


----------



## henderson92

affliction. Tito loves the money and i dont blame him. if i was putting my ass on the line like that i would be expecting the big bucks too! if Tito fought Renato Sobral that would be cool. lol i totally agree with Chipper. Dana would be shitting himself.. haha!


----------



## coldcall420

raymardo said:


> Legacy.
> 
> Wow. That's a strong word.
> 
> Legacy. I had to type it again.
> 
> Go Tito. People use your name in the same breath as Legacy, like Ali. That's cool for Tito. I wouldn't have thought it, but I guess it's legitimate. Tito has done a lot for MMA. He's a pioneer and still pretty competitive.
> 
> Due to his relationship with Donald Trump, I think we'll see Tito fighting for Affliction.


legacy is a strong word? What i mean by that is everyone has a legacy...Gabe Rudiger...his legacy is passing out from cutting weight and being a bitch on the Ultimate Fighter.....I personally hate tito but the dude has a legacy..he has a major fan following and on top of that plenty of people who dislike tito tune in and watch him regardless....I dont like the guy but im curious whats gonna happen with his career.....

I do not see Tito fighting in the UFC and thats why its not an option.....plus the point of the question is to kinda get an idea which promotion Affliction or Elite XC people like to see fighter's in more...p.s Legend i love that avy pic brother...repped for honoring your bets.....


----------



## _RIVAL_

3 EliteXC fights for Tito if he signed there would more than likley be Babalu, Frank Shamrock, Feijao.

But, EliteXC lets some fighters fight on other cards so it's likley that those fights could very well end up on an affliction anyway.


----------



## MLS

I'm going to say where ever he is offered the most money.


----------



## The Legend

J.P. said:


> *3 EliteXC fights for Tito if he signed there would more than likley be Babalu, Frank Shamrock, Feijao.*
> 
> But, EliteXC lets some fighters fight on other cards so it's likley that those fights could very well end up on an affliction anyway.


Even though there have been rumors that he isn't in control(or that he was never really in control) you don't think Gary Shaw would want to make Kimbo vs. Tito? That's been talked about if Tito signs there.


----------



## _RIVAL_

The Legend said:


> Even though there have been rumors that he isn't in control(or that he was never really in control) you don't think Gary Shaw would want to make Kimbo vs. Tito? That's been talked about if Tito signs there.




I'd really love to see Tito whip Kimbos ass. Man I forgot about that one.


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5

J.P. said:


> I'd really love to see Tito whip Kimbos ass. Man I forgot about that one.


lol that would be awesome to watch. Plus, it would finally put an end to all the nonsense that Kimbo actually has any fighting talent.


----------



## canuckchuck

only reason i like to watch tito fight is cause i like to see him get beat up

Chuck


----------



## cplmac

enochian said:


> he is going to affliction,
> trump supports affliction,
> tito was on the apprentice.
> tito sat next to trump during banned.


I was full on ready to say EXC until this post, GREAT point. I totally forgot about that, no question in my mind now. He can still fight Shamrock in Affliction, Gary Shaw allows cross promotions.


----------



## _JB_

Tito will be going Affliction for his first fight then back and forth between the 2 maybe?


----------



## coldcall420

*Are you a Tito Fan....YES or NO??????*

So alot of people talk all this love for tito and say he deserves the Affliction money and he's the best draw oput there so I just wanna know out of all the people that are on the forum......Where does he stand amoung us....personally i dislike the guy so I will be voting: Non-Fan


p.s... none of the well I am a fan of his style but not him.....either your a Fan or Non-Fan!


----------



## zarny

Tito has lots of fans, but I'm not one of them. I'm indifferent really.


----------



## MJB23

I started out not liking him and then during TUF he really grew on me but after the thing with the boxing match with Dana and some of his comments about how other fighters are upset with the UFC I've started to dislike him again. I guess i'm indifferent.


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5

I used to like him but now i just think he's a dumb overrated fighter with a big mouth. He's still got skills, though, and he's definitely a draw in the MMA industry so even though im not a fan i realize Tito is important for the sport.


----------



## milkkid291

He hasn't done shit for the past 2 years. Not even sure how well he will do in a ring.


----------



## coldcall420

I wanna like Tito but every time he opens his stupid mouth i cant bring myself to cheer for him, does he have talent yeah, has he been tested lately yeah and he failed...i.e...Chuck, Lyoto, but yet he talks mad shit cuz he has beaten Shamrock and barely beat Forrest, so i wanna see if all his fans are still out there or if more and more people are really just sick of hearing his excuses......:thumb03:


----------



## XitUp

He hasn't done anything good since making Ken Shamrock look like a tool on TUF.

Using the cage is a massive part of his game, he'll probably get killed in a ring.


----------



## coldcall420

XitUp said:


> He hasn't done anything good since making Ken Shamrock look like a tool on TUF.
> 
> Using the cage is a massive part of his game, he'll probably get killed in a ring.


thats actually a great point X, i have never seen him in a ring and he does always cut off the cage, dam i will be intrested to pay attention to that when he fights in Affliction.....funny there are no fans yet......


----------



## Robb2140

I voted No, but it's not because of his personality, it's that his fights haven't been that interesting in a long time. Tito always builds up a lot of hype, then fails to deliver.

Remember though, when people overwhelmingly dislike someone, that is marketable as well. People will tune in in hopes that he gets smashed. Kinda like how they did studies that 1/2 of Howard Stern's listeners despised him, yet they couldn't help but tuning in anyway.

Tito's great for hyping a fight, but I am not really a fan.


----------



## milkkid291

XitUp said:


> He hasn't done anything good since making Ken Shamrock look like a tool on TUF.
> 
> Using the cage is a massive part of his game, he'll probably get killed in a ring.


Wow, I can't believe we actually agree on something


----------



## Redrum

i am a non-fan. in fact, i think i like josh koscheck about 500% more as a fighter and as a person. it is very interesting that there are no fans in this poll yet.


----------



## kenkoy

you should've added an option for:

- i'd watch him get his ass whupped.

i dont consider myself a fan, or a non fan. but i do like watching tito lose. makes me all happy in the inside.


----------



## Composure

I say this proudly.....no I am not a fan.


----------



## ESPADA9

I respect his ground and pound skills, that’s about it.
He’s his own worst enemy.


----------



## JuggNuttz

I respect him, and like the fact that he does go out of his way for fans, but yeah still Not a Fan.... i like seeing that huge melon of his get hit over and over though!! :thumb02:


----------



## Bonnar426

Wow, some of you guys are ice-cold when talking about Tito!

Also, I'm not a fan!


----------



## nissassagame

coldcall420 said:


> I wanna like Tito but every time he opens his stupid mouth i cant bring myself to cheer for him, does he have talent yeah, has he been tested lately yeah and he failed...i.e...Chuck, Lyoto, but yet he talks mad shit cuz he has beaten Shamrock and barely beat Forrest, so i wanna see if all his fans are still out there or if more and more people are really just sick of hearing his excuses......:thumb03:


I too am sick of Tito. Like you said, he beat Shammer and scraped by Forrest. He looked like garbage against Rashad and Lyoto. I just think he has no heart left in MMA and wants to get a few paycheques and live off his name. Funny how he will end up just like Ken has.


----------



## A1yola06

I would pick the "hes allright" option


----------



## ToeZup

Wow 80% don't like him as of right now.
I guess it goes to show how far humble can take you.


----------



## Terry77

Robb2140 said:


> I voted No, but it's not because of his personality, it's that his fights haven't been that interesting in a long time. Tito always builds up a lot of hype, then fails to deliver.
> 
> Remember though, when people overwhelmingly dislike someone, that is marketable as well. People will tune in in hopes that he gets smashed. Kinda like how they did studies that 1/2 of Howard Stern's listeners despised him, yet they couldn't help but tuning in anyway.
> 
> Tito's great for hyping a fight, but I am not really a fan.


This is about it. For me, Tito has been doing the same act for 9 years now and somehow people still by into it. 

The Couture fight was the start. Since then his only valuable and decisive win was against middleweight Patrick Cote. Ken Shamrock was not legit, and the fights with Forrest & Vitor can go against Tito.


----------



## raw89

Use too but then he's started getting too cocky and I think he's overrated.


----------



## mmawrestler

im pretty neutral 
I used to absolutley despise him but ive evuantually learnt to not mind him


----------



## brownpimp88

I voted fan. He fails to deliver nowadays, but he has had some epic fights in the past. I always seem to give people the benefit of the doubt. I'd still like to see him fight Noggy Smalls, Babalu and maybe Fedor.


----------



## Rygu

Titos an egghead. Those post-fight shirts he wears are straight up ass-clown. He talks so much crap to this day...but hes done absolutely nothing to impress anyone in the last 2-3 years. LHW had nowhere near the depth and talent when Tito was in his "prime" so for him to live off his Shamrock wins is sad considering in Shamrock's prime the UFC was mostly one dimensional fighters.

Even when he was champ, he still never had any class....he should have taken a look at how Chuck/Randy/Hughes conducted themselves and maybe he too could have been considered a legend in the UFC.


----------



## HexRei

I have very little respect for him, and would not call myself a fan. I think his approach does hook a lot of viewers who are more interested in trashtalk and hype than the actual sport, and I'm glad for the extra money and mindshare for the sport. But the fact is that he is overrated, doesn't have much to offer besides his wrestling (no, one triangle in attempt in his last five fights doesn't mean he has strong BJJ to me, and beating up Shamrock doesn't mean he has strong striking to me) and mostly generates revenue by talking shit about his opponents and promotions. Not my cup o tea.


----------



## coldcall420

*You have to have gained respect for Lyoto....*

Last night the guy did the opposite of what so many people on this forum complain about.....


He bought the fight to Thiago and beat him in every way possible. Lyoto Machida is a definate force to be dealt with and people in the LHW division were put on notice last night......

He beat Silva with ease, he didnt run yeah he moved from side to side but still every fighter does.......I have been looking for all those people who have been hating on machida for a while now to post and I for some reason havent seen many.......:dunno:


----------



## coldcall420

*Bisbing vs. Henderson....Who ya got????*

O.k. i looked to see if this has been polled after reading another intresting thread and I couldnt find a poll so..........Im goin out on a limb with Bisbing.....


----------



## Hellboy

Henderson to win his 10th fight by Split Decision.


----------



## AmRiT

Just so you know it's Bisping not Bisbing

I got Bisping by UD


----------



## jeremy202

Well bisping was exposed against leben

so henderson takes this fight easily, either KO or UD


----------



## Liddellianenko

I have not been impressed with Henderson lately.. he just kinda plays it safe. Bisping looks wayy hungrier, I'm givin it to him.


----------



## mihklo

i think the only way bisping can win is if he uses the same strategy that he used against leben. i dont think it will work, and see hendo pulling off another UD via a bit of lay n pray. to me this has the makes of a boring fight.


----------



## ThaFranchise

jeremy202 said:


> Well bisping was exposed against leben


Exposed...? What like his junk fell out or something? Cuz I'm pretty sure Leben got effed in the eh.


----------



## coldcall420

AmRiT said:


> Just so you know it's Bisping not Bisbing
> 
> I got Bisping by UD


 
Thanks you bloody wanker....lol Just kidding.....Bisbing Bisping.....either way i got him to win.....:thumb02:


----------



## AmRiT

jeremy202 said:


> Well bisping was exposed against leben
> 
> so henderson takes this fight easily, either KO or UD


I don't know what fight you watched, because I am sure it wasn't the same one that the rest of us saw, elaborate on that for us please? I really want to know how he was exposed, he beat Leben in every round, Leben's face was busted at the end too...


----------



## coldcall420

AmRiT said:


> I don't know what fight you watched, because I am sure it wasn't the same one that the rest of us saw, elaborate on that for us please? I really want to know how he was exposed, he beat Leben in every round, Leben's face was busted at the end too...


 
Hard to imagine he saw anything from the time machine.....:confused02:


----------



## jasonc84

mihklo said:


> i think the only way bisping can win is if he uses the same strategy that he used against leben. i dont think it will work, and see hendo pulling off another UD via a bit of lay n pray. to me this has the makes of a boring fight.


I think Bisping CAN win if he counter punches like he did against Leben, big difference here is Hendo can and will eventually take him down. I see Hendo by UD.


----------



## TraMaI

WOW dead even huh? Bisbing for me. His striking is much more technical than Dan's standing up, he'll pick him apart easily. Mike has a pretty good ground game too, at least enough to try to stand up again.


----------



## Toxic

Dan takes this, Rich Franklin is a better more expericanced version of Bisping and Dan managed to get the win over him and he'll do the same here.


----------



## MagiK11

I think Bisping obviously has the better striking and in my opinion better bjj, but Hendo has the strength, toughness, wrestling, and great bjj defense, so overall I think Hendo will be too much for Bisping to handle.

Think the fight will go to the ground with Hendo controlling the fight from top position.


----------



## Freelancer

Is this in MW or LHW?


----------



## jeremy202

I think this will be a point fight, as both guys are point fighters, and I think dan is the better point fighter.So UD for dan.Dont expect anything flashy like a KO because neither guys will deliver


----------



## Bazza89

Freelancer said:


> Is this in MW or LHW?


MW, it's after TUF I think.


----------



## TeamNogpwns

I don't see Bisping finishing Hendo, and I can clearly see Hendo taking this fight to the ground. Hendo wins this fight by UD or TKO.


----------



## Steph05050

i think henderson would win.....by decision of course


----------



## jdun11

I like Bisping alot more, but Henderson is going to destroy him. I see a first round finish for Hendo.


----------



## cultlegend

Bisping takedown defence is brilliant and his striking is far superior, so i can see Hendo having problems, Bispings taking this fight by knockout or unanimous decision.


----------



## dwn4THECOUNT

i can see hendo have a hard time taking bisping and and keeping him there. even when rashad had bisping down he couldnt control bisping. also i think bisping will stick and move causing some problems on the feet for hendo.

fan of both, should be a good fight. bisping by tko or ud


----------



## Dioxippus

All the arguments for Hendo to win are pretty valid, but I still give it to Bisping.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

Hellboy said:


> Henderson to win his 10th fight by Split Decision.


Agreed. 
I see this going much like Bisping v. Hammill, only I see Dan being more effective in the takedown.


----------



## Evil Ira

Bisping all the way


----------



## evilappendix

I'm going with Dirty Dan on this one. Although Bisping has a good stand up game, Henderson should have no issue taking him down and brolesting him for three rounds...


----------



## randyspankstito

Hendo still has enough gas left in the tank to beat a B level guy like Bisping. 

The count has consistantly been one of the most over-hyped fighters in the UFC. It's not that I think he's a bad fighter, I just think he get's a bit too much credit for his skills.


----------



## nissassagame

Hendo has looked very slow lately. I think Bisping will out-pace and out score Dan. UD, The Count.


----------



## jdun11

Wow, this forum has a bunch of Bisping fans huh? No reason this poll should even be close.


----------



## AmRiT

No, not just Bisping fans if you actually read what people say, it is clear that most think it will be a close fight and many think in Bispings favour

I am a Bisping but my reasons for him winning are logical IMO

Good scrambling skills and good TDD + Better striking = win IMO


----------



## Walker

I give it to Hendo via ground molestation. Yes Bisping is getting better and his ability to stand back up after being taken down is solid like he showed against Rashad but Dan can smother him on the ground. Won't be pretty at all and not a great fight to watch but I think Dan will grind out a decision.


----------



## Freiermuth

Dan all the way.

The Count does not have enough power to keep Dan at bay. I see Dan wading in, maybe getting a lucky bomb to land....if not, taking Bisping down and pounding him out.

Honestly, if AS didn't KO/TKO Dan, I don't see how Bisping will. Dan can end this fight via bomb, sub or UD, Bisbing can only UD on a good day.


----------



## dvonfunk

On paper, Hendo should win. I want him to win. I can't stand Bisping. But Hendo has not impressed me at all lately. Maybe he's starting to show his age? 

I was sure Nog would handle Mir and I was way wrong, so I'm going to take Bisping in a big upset. I just see him coming in hungrier, in better shape, and with a superior gameplan. Let's hope I'm wrong.


----------



## coldcall420

randyspankstito said:


> Hendo still has enough gas left in the tank to beat a B level guy like Bisping.
> 
> The count has consistantly been one of the most over-hyped fighters in the UFC. It's not that I think he's a bad fighter, I just think he get's a bit too much credit for his skills.


 
So a guy that is 17-1 with his only loss comming to the current UFC LHW champ is a "B" level fighter........lol 

A "B" level fighter that if he gets past Hendo will most likely fight for the belt...........:confused02:

He's not a "B" level fighter......i'm not a Bisping nutthugger but dam the dude gets no credit for what clearly has been a successful career in the UFC.....:thumbsup:


----------



## coldcall420

*Could Cung Le beat Machida????*

I think there is an obvious weight discrepancy but other than that I think it would be a very interesting match-up....


----------



## K R Y

No. There's Power difference, and elusiveness difference is off the charts. Even if Cung landed a full flush blow (lol) i doubt Machida would blink.

KO in the first.


----------



## T.Bone

Heeeeeell no.


----------



## Evil Ira

Theyr'e both clearly talented fighters, but I don't see Cung - Le winning. Machida's too good.


----------



## coldcall420

Who can beat Lyoto......they're gonna have to move Anderson up to fight him.......Not for nothin but i wouldnt mind seeing what Wandy would try to do t machida although I dont think he could beat him....more or less I mean what wandy's approach would be.....

Gotta be Anderson next.........:thumb02:


----------



## _RIVAL_

coldcall420 said:


> Gotta be Anderson next.........:thumb02:


They apparantly have publicly stated that they'll never fight eachother because they are friends.


----------



## TERMINATOR

J.P. said:


> They apparantly have publicly stated that they'll never fight eachother because they are friends.


Thats a bunch of bulls**t if you ask me. Page and Hendo never had a problem with tryn to kill each other. If it came down to them being the last people to fight they better suck it up and fight each other. Its your job. Just because you compete against each other doesnt mean you stop being friends. Do it for the friends were all grown up here.


----------



## _RIVAL_

Kind of ironic isn't it?

It boils down to two of the best in the UFC. And they're friends who won't fight.


----------



## imrik32

TERMINATOR said:


> Thats a bunch of bulls**t if you ask me. Page and Hendo never had a problem with tryn to kill each other. If it came down to them being the last people to fight they better suck it up and fight each other. Its your job. Just because you compete against each other doesnt mean you stop being friends. Do it for the friends were all grown up here.


Considering that they were in two different weight classes I think it's entirely reasonable to say they will not fight each other. It's not as if they are in the same weight class with a fight looming on the horizon.


----------



## kay_o_ken

definitely not


----------



## Toxic

Are you serious? Cung Le is a horribly overated WW with zero ground game masquarading as a top MW and you think he is a challenge for th best LHW in the world? Sorry ColdCall but all I can do is shake my head at this one...


----------



## coldcall420

Toxic said:


> Are you serious? Cung Le is a horribly overrated WW with zero ground game masquarading as a top MW and you think he is a challenge for th best LHW in the world? Sorry ColdCall but all I can do is shake my head at this one...


 
First of all Toxic your still shaking your head from last night....in disgust.....Secondly the question had been posted somewhere else as well and got me thinking he might be better prepared for what coming from Machida due to his Karate backgound.........its not that far fetched.....hell you picked rashad to beat lyoto....now that was far fetched...lol


P.S....you better fix that sig......lol


----------



## AmRiT

I think Page still has a chance, I think the reach difference Page and Evans would make a differewnce in the way they both match up with Machida...


----------



## CornbreadBB

Coldcall, I am disappoointed in you good sir. Really? Really?! Cung Le wouldn't be able to touch Macida, literally. I know it's always me and Toxic saying this, but the dude is terribly overrated and won a fight against an older, Frank Shamrock that wasn't willing to take him down. This would be over quicker than the Rashad fight. (I love that i can use that example now.)


----------



## coldcall420

CornbreadBB said:


> Coldcall, I am disappointed in you good sir. Really? Really?! Cung Le wouldn't be able to touch Macida, literally. I know it's always me and Toxic saying this, but the dude is terribly overrated and won a fight against an older, Frank Shamrock that wasn't willing to take him down. This would be over quicker than the Rashad fight. (I love that i can use that example now.)


 

didn't know with the karate background whether he could pose a problem for machida and counter him better.....assuming same weight.....sorry to disappoint you cornbread I'm on my way to the kitchen to do a shot of patron to redeem myself.......:thumbsup:


----------



## CornbreadBB

coldcall420 said:


> didn't know with the karate background whether he could pose a problem for machida and counter him better.....assuming same weight.....sorry to disappoint you cornbread I'm on my way to the kitchen to do a shot of patron to redeem myself.......:thumbsup:


Ah, I see what you're saying, but in his stand up fights (K-1), besides for the scissor take downs, it looked like Cung utilized more muay thai than anything else. Either way, I heard Patron gets you in the zone....I am drinking me some vodka and don't worry my brother, you are redeemed! :thumb02:


----------



## RushFan

LMFAO! 
That is all.


----------



## Toxic

coldcall420 said:


> P.S....you better fix that sig......lol


Cant do that yet, just threw is up there to support Rashad and I hate when people do that then take it down right away cause there fighter lost, I made my prediction and was wrong but Im not gonna hide it.


----------



## Bonnar426

No, just no! For Cung Le to pull the miracle out of his ass he'll need more then just a bunch of flashy kicks!

To tell you the truth, I'm more interested in what would happen if Machida went up against somebody like Okami!


----------



## coldcall420

Toxic said:


> Cant do that yet, just threw is up there to support Rashad and I hate when people do that then take it down right away cause there fighter lost, I made my prediction and was wrong but Im not gonna hide it.


 
lol.....no need to change mine...just updated my vbookie stats though and my credits are starying to come back.......:thumb02:


----------



## unclehulka13

Bonnar426 said:


> No, just no! For Cung Le to pull the miracle out of his ass he'll need more then just a bunch of flashy kicks!
> 
> To tell you the truth, I'm more interested in what would happen if Machida went up against somebody like Okami!


Okami lol


----------



## CornbreadBB

unclehulka13 said:


> Okami lol


Why is that funny? Besides that Okami is a MW, I can see him putting up a hard fight against Machida.


----------



## jcal

Not to be mean but why would anybody even think of Cung lee against Machida? Hes not that great a striker and I dont even know if he knows submission or defense of it, look what a hard fight he had with Shamrock and then see what Diaz did to shammy, that should give anybody a clue about cung lees mma ability. I can easily say Cung lee could not beat 1 top ten middleweight on the :thumbsup:ufc roster, much less a dominant LHW champion. I dont think anybody is gonna beat this guy for a long time.


----------



## Iuanes

If anything Machida could take him down at will and Thiago Silva him, or submit him.

Or just knock him out standing.


----------



## coldcall420

jcal said:


> Not to be mean but why would anybody even think of Cung lee against Machida? Hes not that great a striker and I dont even know if he knows submission or defense of it, look what a hard fight he had with Shamrock and then see what Diaz did to shammy, that should give anybody a clue about cung lees mma ability. I can easily say Cung lee could not beat 1 top ten middleweight on the :thumbsup:ufc roster, much less a dominant LHW champion. I dont think anybody is gonna beat this guy for a long time.


 

1st of it was suggested at the same weight they fight......2nd because of their natural karate backgrounds.....havent you learned yet that machidas karate is winning these fights for him....lets see another experienced karate fighter match-up.....i said i think he would lose but it could be intresting at the least Le may offer better approach or defense....:confused05:


----------



## jcal

Why would you think Machida would keep the fight standing, and second neither one of these guys use very many Karate strikes, look like combinations to me or did Karate invent the hook and uppercut and cross now too? Dont be ridiculous.


----------



## Hammer_Lock

jcal said:


> Why would you think Machida would keep the fight standing, and second neither one of these guys use very many Karate strikes, look like combinations to me or did Karate invent the hook and uppercut and cross now too? Dont be ridiculous.


Karate is a mindset, not some weird looking strikes. Of course it's also weird looking strikes, but don't forget the mindset. 

:thumb02:


----------



## locnott

No.No.No.


----------



## coldcall420

jcal said:


> Why would you think Machida would keep the fight standing, and second neither one of these guys use very many Karate strikes, look like combinations to me or did Karate invent the hook and uppercut and cross now too? Dont be ridiculous.


 
Fine he'll take him down to the ground and use his bjj black to submit nim but really whats gonna happen is rampage is gonna attack lyoto is going to counter perfectly and k/o rampge.......sorry:thumbsup:


----------



## coldcall420

*Machidas Game Continues to Evolve*

http://mmamania.com/2009/06/10/ufc-quick-quote-lyoto-machidas-got-mma-in-his-blood/

This is why I hate people that say he only sits back......Dude is constantly learning and improvig..:thumbsup:


----------



## w0rM

Thanks for the link. I hadn't seen that yet.

It speaks volumes that Lyoto hadn't done any professionally guided strength and conditioning training up to the Ortiz fight. After commencing we've seen two fights and two KOs. Not TKOs, real proper KOs! 

WAR Lyoto!


----------



## SpoKen

Even though I like Machida a lot, I hope he doesn't KO shogun, because I also like him a lot. Goodness... why must all my favorites fight? Prett soon people are going to start thinking I hate Rampage and Shogun, and Cung Le if Diaz gets his shot.


----------



## coldcall420

*Cro Cop F***d Dana!!!!*

http://www.mmanews.com/ufc/Mirko-Cro-Cop-Splits-From-The-UFC-Heading-To-DREAM.html

Dana seems less than pleased...lol maybe this is Mirko's way of paying Dana back for cutting him.....


My real question is for all the Cro Cop fans......How does this make you guys feel after being all excited for his return????:confused02:


----------



## HeavyRob

Sign Tito on to Dream as well. Then have him go against Cro Cop. Then we'll chat with Dana and get his thoughts.


----------



## hitmachine44

I'm not certain that any of this has been confirmed yet.


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy

I read the title and thought holy shit this must be good...

Damn I was wrong lol..


----------



## Xerxes

We already have a thread covering the topic :thumbsup:

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/57467-cro-cop-ufc-possible-spoilers.html


----------



## coldcall420

*GSP Talks His Fight With Thiago Alves, Injury*

Consumate Professional.....

http://www.mmanews.com/ufc/GSP-Talks-His-Fight-With-Thiago-Alves-Injury.html

:thumbsup:


----------



## mihklo

really how can you not like this guy. if only alot of the other fighters had his attitude and professionalism. good find + rep for ya


----------



## wado lado

i love how he goes to his locker room and practices what he did wrong in his win even though he was injured


----------



## All_In

I think I speak for the majority of us when I say, GSP you classless, cocky pr*ck. Why don't you learn how to dress...ya scrub!

Edit:


----------



## Vale_Tudo

> When I came back to the locker room, even though I was in a lot of pain, I asked my trainer John Danaher to show me what I been doing wrong during that fight to allow Thiago Alves to stand up so many times. He showed it to me, so like that it’s fresh in my mind and I know right away what I did wrong in the fight and I will never do the same mistake again.


Wow, just wow!


----------



## T.Bone

GSP is the king of everything.


----------



## Whitehorizon

He is a stand up, hard working guy. Thats dedication man. I could tell something was wrong during the fight. I stop laughing at him when his trainer made him say "Jab and a lot of Movement". That was some funny shit.


----------



## billhicks

I kinda feel bad for Alves when GSP keeps going on about his injury.

Alves just lost to GSP. No, Alves just lost to an injured GSP.


----------



## coldcall420

*AskMen.com's Top Ten to beat Lesner......*

http://www.askmen.com/top_10/sports/top-10-brock-lesnar-killers_10.html

I though this was pretty funny considering that they really have no clue on what they are talking about......but either way I figured it was worth a look.......

CC420:thumb02:

Maybe like 2-3 from the list are realistic.....


----------



## Biowza

I didn't think their list was too bad. They pretty just named every contender in the MMA heavyweight division lol


----------



## coldcall420

Pretty much....thats a good way of looking at it....:thumbsup: Thats pretty much what it is......


----------



## DahStoryTella

junior dos santos? haha. i agree with the chin part though somewhat.

id put gonzaga there too, i think he'd give lesnar trouble.


----------



## DropKick

Really not that bad of a list. I have to admit I was half expecting to see Kimbo Slice on the list given it was from Askmen.com lol.

But yeah, I agree with Coldcall. I think only 2 or 3 fighters from that list could beat Brock.


----------



## LjStronge

lol, how many copyright infringements are there with all those videos!


----------



## americanfighter

mir should have been higher on the list. I think he has a legitimate shot at wining. I just think he came in way over confident in the last fight.


----------



## 70seven

Crappy list, its missing Rob Emerson.


----------



## coldcall420

70seven said:


> Crappy list, its missing Rob Emerson.


 
touche'........:thumb02:


----------



## GKY

I would of switched Kongo with Gonzaga and Lashley with Velasquez (seriously..Lashley is horribly overhyped).

Otherwise, good list.

Oh yeah, and I forgot Barnett, who I think is just as big a challenge as Fedor to Lesnar.


----------



## AshyLarry

GKY said:


> Oh yeah, and I forgot Barnett, who I think is just as big a challenge as Fedor to Lesnar.


Agreed. But, Barnett is also just as big a challenge to Dick Pound and the World Anti-Doping Agency....

:confused02:


----------



## mickkelly12

Crocop anybody??????


----------



## Liddellianenko

> For starters, he (Lashley) is as big as Lesnar and he’s as good of a wrestler, which sets the table fairly evenly.


mmk seriously guys? Lashley weighs about 25 lbs less than Lesnar, and his wrestling credentials are to Brock's what The Karate Kid's credentials are to Machida's in karate. Brock is a two time NCAA National Div-I champ, Lashley won it's very poor cousin the NAIA. 

Entertainig list, but AskMen.com just always seems like a fairly uninformed site when it comes to the details.


----------



## AshyLarry

mickkelly12 said:


> Crocop anybody??????


I'm a huge Crocop fan but I just don't see that happening right now. I don't know what happened with Mirko, but, he doesn't even seem like the same fighter anymore...it's like he doesn't have the same focus that he once did. I fear that he'd be completely finished as soon as it went to the ground. I'm hopeful that he looks better in his fight at UFC 103 than he did in his last one.


----------



## DropKick

Liddellianenko said:


> mmk seriously guys? Lashley weighs about 25 lbs less than Lesnar, and his wrestling credentials are to Brock's what The Karate Kid's credentials are to Machida's in karate. Brock is a two time NCAA National Div-I champ, Lashley won it's very poor cousin the NAIA.
> 
> Entertainig list, but AskMen.com just always seems like a fairly uninformed site when it comes to the details.


In fairness to Daniel LaRusso he did defeat 2 time defending All Valley Karate Championship winner and Cobra Kai stand out Johnny. Though some may say Bobby could have won the '84 tournament if he wasn't disqualified for putting LaRusso out of commission on orders from his Sensai. In my mind though, had it been MMA rules there is no doubt that Dutch would have taken the title.


----------



## AshyLarry

Liddellianenko said:


> mmk seriously guys? Lashley weighs about 25 lbs less than Lesnar, and his wrestling credentials are to Brock's what The Karate Kid's credentials are to Machida's in karate. Brock is a two time NCAA National Div-I champ, Lashley won it's very poor cousin the NAIA.
> 
> Entertainig list, but AskMen.com just always seems like a fairly uninformed site when it comes to the details.


I was flipping through the TV last night and came across TNA Wrestling...low and behold, I see Lashley hitting some guy in the head with a trashcan lid, lol. 

I like Lashley and he's a big dude, but, could you imagine the flack that Lesnar would be taking if he was still wrestling in the WWE? Good lord, as it is, people point that out all the time and he hasn't wrestled a WWE match in like 3 years.



DropKick said:


> In fairness to Daniel LaRusso he did defeat 2 time defending All Valley Karate Championship winner and Cobra Kai stand out Johnny. Though some may say Bobby could have won the '84 tournament if he wasn't disqualified for putting LaRusso out of commission on orders from his Sensei. In my mind though, had it been MMA rules there is no doubt that Dutch would have taken the title.


This is awesome. I think Bobby would have had a shot too, but, would Sensei Kreese have made him roll over for Johnny? Johnny was obviously the golden boy of the Cobra Kai...that is until Kreese and Terry Silver recruited Mike Barnes "The Bad Boy of Karate" in Part 3...which by the way is one god awful movie.

- "Sweep the leg, you gotta problem with that?"
- "No, sensei"
- "No mercy"


----------



## DropKick

AshyLarry said:


> This is awesome. I think Bobby would have had a shot too, but, would Sensei Kreese have made him roll over for Johnny? Johnny was obviously the golden boy of the Cobra Kai...that is until Kreese and Terry Silver recruited Mike Barnes "The Bad Boy of Karate" in Part 3...which by the way is one god awful movie.
> 
> - "Sweep the leg, you gotta problem with that?"
> - "No, sensei"
> - "No mercy"


Johnny vs. Mike Barnes is a fight that we should have gotten to see. That would have been an All Valley Karate Championship super fight. 

Anyway, here is a Cobra Kai tribute vid. 2:38 of pure awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6Lq3THQFwA


----------



## Soakked

DropKick said:


> In fairness to Daniel LaRusso he did defeat 2 time defending All Valley Karate Championship winner and Cobra Kai stand out Johnny. Though some may say Bobby could have won the '84 tournament if he wasn't disqualified for putting LaRusso out of commission on orders from his Sensai. In my mind though, had it been MMA rules there is no doubt that Dutch would have taken the title.


This is golden


----------



## coldcall420

mickkelly12 said:


> Crocop anybody??????


 
No....:thumbsdown:




AshyLarry said:


> I'm a huge Crocop fan but I just don't see that happening right now. I don't know what happened with Mirko, but, he doesn't even seem like the same fighter anymore...it's like he doesn't have the same focus that he once did. I fear that he'd be completely finished as soon as it went to the ground. I'm hopeful that he looks better in his fight at UFC 103 than he did in his last one.


Doesnt strike me as a hungry fighter, and doesnt seem to care about getting to a belt any time soon......JMO:thumbsup:



Liddellianenko said:


> mmk seriously guys? Lashley weighs about 25 lbs less than Lesnar, and his wrestling credentials are to Brock's what The Karate Kid's credentials are to Machida's in karate. Brock is a two time NCAA National Div-I champ, Lashley won it's very poor cousin the NAIA.
> 
> Entertainig list, but AskMen.com just always seems like a fairly uninformed site when it comes to the details.


 
I would say most certainly, but if entertainment was achieved in looking then the desired result from me was achieved.......:thumbsup:


----------



## coldcall420

jennathebenda said:


> I want Nog to get his rematch aganist Mir then show lesnar what a triangle feels like.


 
Why do you wish for this whan Mir will...well Mir NOG again....I love Nog but he isnt gonna beat Frank if they fight again....hell I dont think he is gonna be able to beat Randy.....

I see Randy clinching then tossin Nog eventually and doin some damage on the ground, but only after standng with him first.....


----------



## name goes here

Makes me realise how inconsistent most the hw's are, specially compared to the lhw's.


----------



## coldcall420

*Update On Forrest Griffin Broken Jaw Rumor*

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=9333&zoneid=13





"Following a devastating knockout loss to UFC middleweight champion Anderson Silva at UFC 101 on Saturday night, former 205-pound champion Forrest Griffin wasted no time getting up from the mat and quickly exiting the Octagon. 

At the post fight press conference, UFC President Dana White said he hadn't seen or heard from Griffin after the fight and he could be "back in Georgia" at that point. 

“He’s an emotional guy,” commented White. “He came into this fight confident that he was going to beat Anderson Silva.”

Reports surfaced on Sunday that Griffin had suffered a jaw injury and that was the reason for his hasty exit, but MMAWeekly.com was able to confirm with sources close to the fighter's camp that he is physically fine following the Saturday night fight.

Griffin suffered no broken jaw and he is physically okay.

Griffin, who is ranked as a top five light heavyweight, faced Silva Saturday night in the co-main event, and struggled with the Brazilian's speed and unbelievable accuracy during the bout. 

After two knockdowns early in the round, Griffin was caught with a quick straight right hand that put him down on the canvas for the final time as he waived to the referee to stop the fight." 





Wow....Forrest just ran...I dont care if he wears his heart on his sleeve stay like a man and dont run like a girl....lost lots of respect......:thumbsdown:


----------



## RushFan

Well knock me down with a feather! I was convinced Forrest was a paraplegic the way he ran out of the cage.


----------



## CornbreadBB

So basically, update is that Forrest ran. SHIT!


----------



## Nefilim777

That is very, VERY disappointing to hear.


----------



## JackAbraham34

I really don't see why he ran. I mean I know he lost to Anderson, and lost badly at that, but is there any shame from losing to him? The guy is a pin-point accurate assassin, a true martial artist. After the number of beatings Forrest has taken, after the number of wars he has had in the octagon, could he not have stayed and paid respect to the better fighter? I really don't see why he just up-and-out' in front off all his fans.


----------



## smokelaw1

I'm torn as to how to feel. I mean, i am glad he is physically OK. He really is one of my favorite fighters, so it hurts me to feel a lack of respect for him. I'd like to hear from him about why he ran out. Getting KTFO really messes with your head, it takes a while to feel right again. So, after pouring your heart and soul into getting ready for a battle, only to get laid out like that...I get not wanting to stick around and chat with Joe Rogan, though I can see him saying "Yeah, well, I was doing OK, caught him with a couple solid leg kicks, well, then he knocked me the F out!!" The crowd would have loved it and applauded him as the likable fighter with a huge heart that he is. 

What's my point? I don't know why he ran. I imagine I would too, but I'm a ***** that would probably wake up crying if Anderson Silva LOOKED at me. I don't want it to reduce the respect I have for him, and I am fighting to make it not...but I kinda can't help it.


----------



## Nefilim777

smokelaw1 said:


> I'm torn as to how to feel. I mean, i am glad he is physically OK. He really is one of my favorite fighters, so it hurts me to feel a lack of respect for him. I'd like to hear from him about why he ran out. Getting KTFO really messes with your head, it takes a while to feel right again. So, after pouring your heart and soul into getting ready for a battle, only to get laid out like that...I get not wanting to stick around and chat with Joe Rogan, though I can see him saying "Yeah, well, I was doing OK, caught him with a couple solid leg kicks, well, then he knocked me the F out!!" The crowd would have loved it and applauded him as the likable fighter with a huge heart that he is.
> 
> What's my point? I don't know why he ran. I imagine I would too, but I'm a ***** that would probably wake up crying if Anderson Silva LOOKED at me. I don't want it to reduce the respect I have for him, and I am fighting to make it not...but I kinda can't help it.


I'd rather he broke his whole face then just lose respect for him, which is happening now. . .


----------



## RushFan

I really don't understand why self proclaimed fans are abandoning Forrest over this. It's not like he hasn't done it before. :dunno:


----------



## 6toes

Didn't Forrest do the exact same thing after the Jardine fight? I don't remember if he stuck around for a post-fight interview but I distinctly remember Forrest crying his eyes out then running out of the arena after that fight.

Nothing new here as far as I'm concerned. I like Forrest as a fighter and really who are we to judge someone for leaving the arena after being completely decimated in front of Millions of people? The guy was clearly very emotional at the time, he came out and did his job and that's good enough for me.


----------



## Nefilim777

RushFan said:


> I really don't understand why self proclaimed fans are abandoning Forrest over this. It's not like he hasn't done it before. :dunno:


I'm certainly not going to abandon him, its just disappointing is all...


----------



## RushFan

Nefilim777 said:


> I'd rather he broke his whole face then just lose respect for him, which is happening now. . .


Ahhhh... easy for you to say. With fans like you Forrest doesn't need enemies. 
"I love Forrest! I hope he has severe facial fractures!" :sarcastic03:


----------



## Zemelya

don't see why people turned it into respect thing... 

not like he ran from the fight itself - guy got KOd and felt like running away, maybe it's not the most dignifying thing to do, i'll even say that it wasn't cool BUT respect?
I respect the guy for fighting, training hard, being a nice guy, not for staying in the ring after he lost - it's up to him to decide how to handle loses


----------



## Breadfan

Doesn't bother me. Some people are emotional like that.


plus, when I watch that fight and I put myself in Forrest's shoes, I imagine myself feeling like I was as a kid when my uncle would come over and play fight, and he'd hit me but I could NEVER hit him.

I would try so hard and nothing would ever land. It would get so frustrating I would just want to hulk out and kill someone, but I still couldn't land a thing. After feeling humiliated and defeated, I would just want to be alone.

Anywho, Forrest was as embarrassed as he possibly could be, and I don't blame him for running out. If I was going to lose respect for Forrest, it would have been during the fight.


War Forrest, I hope he doesn't do anything stupid like Russian Roulette or anything.


----------



## osmium

It is bad sportsmanship you should stick around long enough for the winner to be announced and acknowledge your opponents victory over you. He didn't have to do an interview or anything if he didn't want to but he should have shown Anderson the respect he deserved. He already got made to look like he didn't know how to fight no one would have thought less of him if he cried. You kind of want someone to be embarrassed after that happening but you also want them to act like a grown up not a little kid running away crying saying not fair I wanted to win.


----------



## sk double i

Nefilim777 said:


> I'm certainly not going to abandon him, its just disappointing is all...


very dissapointing. It's easy to point fingers and say that was wrong and disrespectful to himselfs and for the fans, but who knows what sort of emotions he was going through at that time. I doubt he was saying to himself, "screw the fans I'm outta here..." To train that hard for that long and have it taken from you in an instant is a feeling I doubt any of us will be able to understand until we've been in that situation.


----------



## Nefilim777

RushFan said:


> Ahhhh... easy for you to say. With fans like you Forrest doesn't need enemies.
> "I love Forrest! I hope he has severe facial fractures!" :sarcastic03:


Yeah **** me right? I was saying I'd rather he kept his respect with MMA fans.


----------



## jasvll

I'm still laughing at the judgmental folk. Hopefully, Griffin makes enough money off his book to buy some noise cancelling headphones, so he won't have to listen to you lecture about how he should behave after waking up from a KO.


----------



## RushFan

Nefilim777 said:


> Yeah **** me right? I was saying I'd rather he kept his respect with MMA fans.


Who is disrespecting him? I understand that he got f*cked up but I still respect him as a fighter. 
I think the main story here is that Forrest was almost ordered ( Dana ) to fight a certain way to make it entertaining. Maybe thats why he fled? Who knows.


----------



## The Horticulturist

I couldn't care less he ran out, I don't see ANY reason to lose respect for the guy. He was man enough to get in there, so no respect lost, I just never cared for his fighting style anyway, and I've sort of disliked him since they gave him and Bonnar #1 of 100 best fights, but that was a silly reason too.


----------



## daitrong

you guys are ridiculous. He didn't run from the fight. He fought like a man against Silva. He came to fight and thought he could win. Forest just got embarrassed because he got beat so easily and couldn't handle it--so he left abruptly. It's not like he showed disrespect for Silva, he just couldn't handle the devastating outcome. He disapointed himself, his fans, his trainers, his family, etc...there's no shame in being ashamed of that. Besides, most fighters don't stay after the fight because they wanted to acknowledge that they lost, they stay because they have duties to their sponsors to put on their hat and shirt. 

If i was Forest, i sure as hell wouldn't want fickle fans who turn their head at the drop of a dime.


----------



## Nefilim777

I see a bandwagon forming...


----------



## DahStoryTella

Anderson Silva = the dream shatterer

makin dudes with mad heart wanna quit, that's that dream shatterer shit yo. props to forrest though, not a big fan but props to him..he was outclassed though


----------



## All_In

Breadfan said:


> Doesn't bother me. Some people are emotional like that.
> 
> 
> plus, when I watch that fight and I put myself in Forrest's shoes, I imagine myself feeling like I was as a kid when my uncle would come over and play fight, and he'd hit me but I could NEVER hit him.
> 
> I would try so hard and nothing would ever land. It would get so frustrating I would just want to hulk out and kill someone, but I still couldn't land a thing. After feeling humiliated and defeated, I would just want to be alone.
> 
> Anywho, Forrest was as embarrassed as he possibly could be, and I don't blame him for running out. If I was going to lose respect for Forrest, it would have been during the fight.
> 
> 
> War Forrest, I hope he doesn't do anything stupid like Russian Roulette or anything.


I agree with this post. The last thing I'd want to do after being brutally KO'd in hilarious fashion in front of millions of viewers who had actually given me a chance to win is talk to a guy who will certainly ask all of the questions I have no intent on answering honestly. 

I have sympathy for people that, after the heat of the moment, don't always do the "sportsman-like" thing. LeBron walked off and I didn't really care. That was a little different in that he had time to accept the loss, as the clock sounded, but Forrest wakes up from a KO and leaves on his own power and suddenly he's attacked. I feel for the guy.

Dana's not gonna yell at him. Forrest did exactly what Dana wanted him to do. Attack Silva, and get KTFO in order to rebound Silva's P4P status which stupidly had been called into question after a bad fight.


----------



## smokelaw1

I hope nobody saw my post as "abandoning" him. I'll be a fan until I stop being an MMA fan. He's got huge heart, and brings it to every fight.


----------



## HeelHooker

Frankly, there's not much wrong with what Forrest did.

Where I him, standing across a cage from Anderson Silva, I would ran have ran before the match started...so would have most of you. :laugh:

He could have ran like Kalib Starnes, or played floppy fighter like Leites but he came prepared for war.

Now, to be so easily disposed after months of training, video footage studying, dieting, isolation and getting pounded on in practice would break any man's spirit.

It's not merely that he lost that he ran, but like Rogan put it, "this might just be the most embarrassing knockout we've ever seen in the UFC" - death-by-casual-jab-from-man-in-reverse. Spider really made Forrest look bad...I mean the beating he gave Franklin was more vicious on the body than on the mind and I'm sure Forrest wishes he'd trade his place with Franklin sooner than be the guy in that bout forever on DVD.

It's how he lost, not merely that he lost, that made him run.


----------



## SideWays222

Run Forrest run!!!!!!!


hahahahahahahaha


----------



## Lochtsa

No Disrespect for Forrest.

He came to the fight in great shape, came prepared to stand and battle the best Pound for Pound fighter, and was simply outclassed.

I think what may upset some people about Forrest running out out, is how Forrest acts after a fight win or lose. He is down to earth guy, everyday guy, who smiles and speaks from his heart, and makes us laugh. He is respectful of his opponents and fans.

I hope Forrest recovers and comes back and fights soon, I enjoy the heart he displays in his fights.


----------



## All_In

SideWays222 said:


> Run Forrest run!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> hahahahahahahaha


C'mon now, you can do a little better than that. On the third page of a thread, you say something that predictable and dumb? The pity that was reserved for Forrest is now being given to you for posting something so horrible.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

It's a fairly petty thing to give the man shite over. I mean... he showed up to the arena, didn't he? He stepped into the cage, didn't he? He traded, didn't he? He got back up twice, didn't he? He continued to push forward until the very end, didn't he? Logic, people. I know many of you are devoid of it, but please, just try.


----------



## Evil Ira

Well I think most other fighters would do the sam thing after waking up from a devastating KO, don't you.

I can't believe people are losing respect for him after this incident. It's not like he woke up, flipped the bird, at Anderson, and storm off angrily, is it? Forrest just happens to be a very emotional guy. He did exactly the same thing after he lost against Jardine.

Anyway, people should be glad that Forrest is fine and well, and hasn't broke his jaw, or suffered any other injuries.

Forrest is still my favourite fighter, and this piece of information hasn't dented my respect for this.


----------



## SideWays222

All_In_GSP said:


> C'mon now, you can do a little better than that. On the third page of a thread, you say something that predictable and dumb? The pity that was reserved for Forrest is now being given to you for posting something so horrible.


Whats even more lame is that your acting like your mad about my post LOL. Get a life pal. Maybe you and forrest can run your way out of this thread. lolololololol
i crack me up.

It was a joke... lighten up.

P.S.
Sorry i didnt feel like posting about how disappointed i am in forrest or how i can understand why he ran. There is more then enough of those posts in this forum by now.


----------



## jasvll

Green Goblin said:


> Well, to each his own. I chose my path, you chose the way of the hero. And they found you amusing for a while, the people of this city. But the one thing they love more than a hero is to see a hero fail, fall, die trying. In spite of everything you've done for them, eventually they will hate you. Why bother?


.....


----------



## AceCombat

In one hand, if you're a Forrest fan it's nothing really to sh*t bricks over considering how eccentric the guy is; on the other, many fighters have been knocked out or embarrassed after fights and it never disabled them from sticking around and accepting the loss like a professional athlete.


----------



## coldcall420

AceCombat said:


> In one hand, if you're a Forrest fan it's nothing really to sh*t bricks over considering how eccentric the guy is; on the other, many fighters have been knocked out or embarrassed after fights and it never disabled them from sticking around and accepting the loss like a professional athlete.


 
I cant tell exactly whats going on in your avy....but I want in on the action.....:thumbsup:


----------



## sleeptones

i see no update thankyou


----------



## D.P.

Didn't we know this already?


----------



## coldcall420

smokelaw1 said:


> I'm torn as to how to feel. I mean, i am glad he is physically OK. He really is one of my favorite fighters, so it hurts me to feel a lack of respect for him. I'd like to hear from him about why he ran out. Getting KTFO really messes with your head, it takes a while to feel right again. So, after pouring your heart and soul into getting ready for a battle, only to get laid out like that...I get not wanting to stick around and chat with Joe Rogan, though I can see him saying "Yeah, well, I was doing OK, caught him with a couple solid leg kicks, well, then he knocked me the F out!!" The crowd would have loved it and applauded him as the likable fighter with a huge heart that he is.
> 
> What's my point? I don't know why he ran. I imagine I would too, but I'm a ***** that would probably wake up crying if Anderson Silva LOOKED at me. I don't want it to reduce the respect I have for him, and I am fighting to make it not...but I kinda can't help it.


he def needs to come out and explain himself and it better be more than I was just upset....



Nefilim777 said:


> I'd rather he broke his whole face then just lose respect for him, which is happening now. . .


 
WTF....



RushFan said:


> I really don't understand why self proclaimed fans are abandoning Forrest over this. It's not like he hasn't done it before. :dunno:


 
Once against Jardine right....but at least he spoke(briefly) then bounced...this time he just bounced....



Zemelya said:


> don't see why people turned it into respect thing...
> 
> not like he ran from the fight itself - guy got KOd and felt like running away, maybe it's not the most dignifying thing to do, i'll even say that it wasn't cool BUT respect?
> I respect the guy for fighting, training hard, being a nice guy, not for staying in the ring after he lost - it's up to him to decide how to handle loses


Sportsmanship....notice Anderson bowed to Forrest when they touched gloves....CLASS.....anyone seen Brock do that...(couldnt resist)




Nefilim777 said:


> Yeah **** me right? I was saying I'd rather he kept his respect with MMA fans.


keep it civil...Rushfan was just makin a point.......:thumbsup:



D.P. said:


> Didn't we know this already?


 
Article just came out earlier...there were a ton sayin he was injured so....

Clarification son!!!!!!:thumbsup:


----------



## AceCombat

> I cant tell exactly whats going on in your avy....but I want in on the action.....


haha It looks like a triangle choke and an armbar put together but if I had to guess...

armbar 80% sure.


----------



## D.P.

coldcall420 said:


> Article just came out earlier...there were a ton sayin he was injured so....
> 
> Clarification son!!!!!!:thumbsup:


Oh ok. I could have sworn I read that already.


----------



## PimpSasquatch

i dont see what the big deal is, he was ko'd and embarrassed and got the **** out of there you feel like shit after you've been ko'd so i doubt he'd want to stand around waiting for joe rogan


----------



## M.C

Think about it, seriously.

You train for months to have your shot at one of the best fighters in the world, you are confident you are the one to win, you are bigger, you are experienced, you are KNOWN for your heart and willingness to stick in a fight to the end.

Then, come fight night, not only are you beaten, but you are beaten worse than anyone else has been beaten by him, AND you didn't show the great heart you are known for, based on whatever reason.

It would be devastating, a very hard loss to take. He was emotional so he left, personally, him leaving shouldn't be a lack of respect, being able to actually show his feelings and leave so he didn't have to cry infront of millions of people should gain more repsect than lose it.

Come on, that is a TOUGH loss, and he took it how he needed to take it.


----------



## coldcall420

We just need to hear from Forrest....whenever he gets done running.....:confused05:


----------



## GarethUFC

who cares if he ran.. he allready got beat... the fight was over. so its not like he was running FROM a fight...


----------



## Op Auto

Put yourself in his shoes he had the balls to get in the cage with the best fighter in the world. An then get back up and come after him after getting dropped three times in under five minutes. Theres only so much a man can take, I'd like to see how some of you guys would react in the same sitution....


----------



## demoman993

I'm kinda torn because there are many factors to take into account. I waited a few days to get all the information before opening my big mouth just in case something important surfaced.

My kneejerk reaction was disbelief. I couldn't understand how a guy like Forrest could lose a fight like that. He had always provided us with unbelieveable performances and I had grown accustomed to that.

So I waited til the next day, read about the possible broken jaw, watched the fight again and had a little sympathy towards him. He needs to protect his future, I'm cool with that.

Now with the confirmation that he isn't hurt I actually feel even worse for him. He obviously was embarrassed, disappointed, humiliated, basically whatever word you want to put in there. From his reputation, he works harder than anyone and looked to be very confident going into that fight. He was probably devastated how he lost and couldn't handle the situation.

But, that does not make running out of the ring the right thing to do. Would it be acceptable if anyone else ran out of the ring before the winner was announced? I don't think so, we would call the guy a sore loser and a baby and reprimand him for his actions. I love what Forrest has done for the sport, the excitement that he provides and his fun loving attitude that he always has. I think he needs to man up and give Anderson an apology, not a public one, just an apology for disrespecting him after the fight. Anderson could have jumped on him like Hendo did to Bisping and made things even worse. Silva showed him that respect, which probably wouldn't have been given by many MMA fighters in that position.


----------



## rogi

I do'nt understand the stupid losers in this thread and other ones. 

He lost, got up and left the ring like most people who lose do. What was he suppose to do, chat with Rogan, how it was a tough fight, Anderson hits hard, bla, bla, bla?

What is there to lose respect over? he lost, he left. does it matter that he jogged out instead of walked? is there some sort of speed limit one is required to obey when leaving the arena now.

Did Chuck stick around in the ring after getting ktfu 3 times, did Wanderlei, did Bisbing? anyone for that matter?

look at this retard above me, Forrest owes Silva an opology for leaving after getting KO'd? are you on ******* crack?


----------



## M.C

rogi said:


> I do'nt understand the stupid losers in this thread and other ones.
> 
> He lost, got up and left the ring like most people who lose do. What was he suppose to do, chat with Rogan, how it was a tough fight, Anderson hits hard, bla, bla, bla?
> 
> What is there to lose respect over? he lost, he left. does it matter that he jogged out instead of walked? is there some sort of speed limit one is required to obey when leaving the arena now.


This message has been approved by Michael Carson.


----------



## Incantation

HeelHooker said:


> Frankly, there's not much wrong with what Forrest did.
> 
> Where I him, standing across a cage from Anderson Silva, I would ran have ran before the match started...so would have most of you. :laugh:


 What the f*ck kind of assbackward reasoning is that? He's a bloody trained athlete getting paid in thousands to do what he does. His detractors aren't. Going by your logic, you shouldn't be putting up Sarah Palin on a stake either for quitting just because you aren't a slimy little politician. He's a 30 year old grown man, not a fu*king hissy-fit throwing child. He has duties towards his sponsors, to put on those obnoxious t shirts after the fights. Stop making excuses just because you like the guy. When was the last time you say a top-flight fighter quit after being subjected to one solid jab that felled him? He obviously had enough wits about him to signal that he'd had enough. What good is going on and on about his heart if he crumbled in front of the strongest competition of his career?


----------



## demoman993

rogi said:


> look at this retard above me, Forrest owes Silva an opology for leaving after getting KO'd? are you on ******* crack?


Did your mom not hold you enough as a child?
This sport is all about respect, if you are disrespecting your fellow fighters you're just another thug out there. Doesn't matter if you don't agree with me, just shows where your thinking is at that's all.


----------



## NATAS

If we would have stuck around and just said something along the lines of, Anderson Silva, what can i say he demolished me, he is the best.

This whole thing would be a lot more to stomach. I am in Brazil, when i watched the fight with my wifes family who had never seen the UFC before. Lets just say first of all UFC 101 was very boring. Then i hype this fight up as, it will be action packed no matter what and dude gets dismantled then runs out of the ring hahaha

I dont think they were impressed


----------



## swpthleg

RushFan said:


> I really don't understand why self proclaimed fans are abandoning Forrest over this. It's not like he hasn't done it before. :dunno:


Expressing disappointment and abandoning are not the same thing.


----------



## The_Senator

> Did Chuck stick around in the ring after getting ktfu 3 times


He spoke to Rogan on UFC 97 (after Shogun's interview), then left, just like most fighters do. But I wouldn't have blamed him if he didn't.


----------



## 6toes

Why on earth would Forrest owe Anderson an apology? What's he supposed to say? 

"Um, sorry Anderson for not telling everybody how amazing you are after you completely dismantled me in front of the world."

As far as I'm concerned, post-fight interviews shouldn't be mandatory for the loser and if they want to leave then by all means, let them. I understand interviewing the loser in a very close decision or a hard fought battle but really, Forrest got completely tooled in a matter of minutes and never managed to do anything throughout the fight. What's he supposed to say?

And does anyone really think that Anderson is upset that Forrest left the ring or feels disrespected in anyway? He basically took Forrest's pride that night, what else does he need?


----------



## DahStoryTella

''the left shook it'll shatter ya chin, similar to darryl dawkins when he shattered the rim''






no left hooks, but close enough


----------



## Rachmunas

What about Rich Franklin getting knocked out in his home town against Silva??? The two embraced after the fight. It was a great thing to watch!! 

Forest running to the back was an f'n joke!


----------



## TraMaI

DahStoryTella said:


> ''the left shook it'll shatter ya chin, similar to darryl dawkins when he shattered the rim''
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no left hooks, but close enough


Jedi Mind Tricks > Any rap ever.





BAM!


----------



## cabby

I for one haven't lost ANY respect for the guy. He just took it pretty rough is all. Here is a guy who has litterally turned himself into a great fighter, he has improved tremendously over the last few years and he thought he had it in the bag. 


It's easy for us to say "Oh he should've been sportsman like and hung around" 

Whatever you bunch of tools...................


----------



## neoseeker

Forrest needs to address the media about this whole running out of the ring thing. He's lost a lot of respect with his fan base.


----------



## TALENT

This does nothing to change the way I feel about Forest. He's still awesome.


----------



## Bonnar426

Its pretty easy to say Forrest shouldn't have ran out of the octagon. Who knows how any of else would have reacted if we suffered a loss like that?


----------



## coldcall420

This was just a loss.....sure he got K/O'd.....but that honestly is no reason to runaway, had he done that to Anderson and Anderson lost wouldn't have run away.....

Hell he bowed multiple times to Forrest and the crowd.........Dana and the UFC fans pushed the wrong buttons and Anderson showed us what he's got and he didn't come to play....

Had Anderson lost, I have confidence that 

A. the crowd would want to hear from him(part of what they are paying for)

B. He wouldn't have run off regardless of pride, he would have shown respect and taken it like a man.....


Forrest acted probably to him in retrospect, like a baby.......

BABY.....I picked Forrest and def like him, but he employed a horrible game plan standing right in front of Anderson and I dont like people that run away.....


----------



## jasvll

Someone let me know when it's my turn to judge Griffin. I can't wait.


----------



## coldcall420

jasvll said:


> Someone let me know when it's my turn to judge Griffin. I can't wait.


 
Go for it.....:thumbsup:


----------



## jasvll

coldcall420 said:


> Go for it.....:thumbsup:


Sweet.










Put him in the PHANTOM ZONE!!!


----------



## Breadfan

coldcall420 said:


> I dont like people that run away.....


Some people have said that Machida runs away for a living, even though I've liked him since his fight with BJ. You're playing very offensive/defensive here. chill out.

I still don't care that Forrest left. Better to leave than to do something stupid like lose his temper after the fight at Joe Rogan or something. 

This loss was the epitome of devastating. He did what he felt he had to do, and I'd bet my paycheck that he didn't do it out of disrespect to Silva, and I'm sure Silva isn't mad in the least bit.


----------



## HeavyRob

TALENT said:


> This does nothing to change the way I feel about Forest. He's still awesome.


agreed.


----------



## daitrong

coldcall420 said:


> This was just a loss.....sure he got K/O'd.....but that honestly is no reason to runaway, had he done that to Anderson and Anderson lost wouldn't have run away.....
> 
> Hell he bowed multiple times to Forrest and the crowd.........Dana and the UFC fans pushed the wrong buttons and Anderson showed us what he's got and he didn't come to play....
> 
> Had Anderson lost, I have confidence that
> 
> A. the crowd would want to hear from him(part of what they are paying for)
> 
> B. He wouldn't have run off regardless of pride, he would have shown respect and taken it like a man.....
> 
> 
> Forrest acted probably to him in retrospect, like a baby.......
> 
> BABY.....I picked Forrest and def like him, but he employed a horrible game plan standing right in front of Anderson and I dont like people that run away.....


sheesh, just wondering but did you have a traumatizing childhood where someone called you a baby for running away and now you hate it when other people do it? Get over it man. Forest did not run away from the fight. In fact, he was man enough to go toe-to-toe with silva, unlike leites. So basically you say he's a baby because he skipped out on the post fight interview. Explain to me how this makes him a baby? And don't say that fighting is about respect, sportsmanship etc. For some it is, for some it's not. Fighting is about who's abilities are superior.


----------



## coldcall420

daitrong said:


> sheesh, *just wondering but did you have a traumatizing childhood where someone called you a baby for running away and now you hate it* when other people do it? Get over it man. Forest did not run away from the fight. In fact, he was man enough to go toe-to-toe with silva, unlike leites. So basically you say he's a baby because he skipped out on the post fight interview. Explain to me how this makes him a baby? And don't say that fighting is about respect, sportsmanship etc. For some it is, for some it's not. Fighting is about who's abilities are superior.


I dont run away from anything!!!!!......Read my above post if your not able to understand A and B....then Im sorry......

He ran off after he lost to jardine and now he runs off after another loss, yeah I wanted to hear what he had to say, stand there like a man (like a Frank Mir) who's face was hamburger and give your thoughts to all the fans that support you......instead of running like a baby....

JMO....


----------



## Satori

I am BIG Forrest Fan and I do mean BIG, I wanted him to beat Anderson S and was hoping for it  --- HOW EVER had he done that in boxing he would have been fined for it, I did not like him running out like that.

O


----------



## daitrong

coldcall420 said:


> I dont run away from anything!!!!!......Read my above post if your not able to understand A and B....then Im sorry......
> 
> He ran off after he lost to jardine and now he runs off after another loss, yeah I wanted to hear what he had to say, stand there like a man (like a Frank Mir) who's face was hamburger and give your thoughts to all the fans that support you......instead of running like a baby....
> 
> JMO....


You are such a hypocrite. As if _you
_ have faced every fear you've ever had _like a man_, handled all failures you've ever had _like a man_, owned up to every mistake you ever made _like a man_, or handled every disappointment you've ever faced _like a man_. Normally, those who are most critical of other people's mistakes or failures, are the ones most guilty of committing it themselves. (past or present) Sure, it was unfortunate that Forrest left so abruptly. I, too, was thinking what the heck is he doing. But, anyone with even a bit of compassion with see that Forrest is an emotional guy and trying to deal with the surge of disappointment the best way he knows how. So in the end, get over yourself. A man's character is not judge by how he acts in the midst of his failures, but it's how he comes back from it.


----------



## Nefilim777

I think what most people are trying to say is that they have been greatly disappointed by Forrest running away after the fight, and not talking staying to talk to the fans, the people that make the sport. Remember everyone, you can have all the sponsors you want, but without fans, there is no sport. This forum is a testament to it. Ill draw another example too; one of my other sporting loves is Rugby, even greater then MMA. I hold a season ticket for Leinster RFC [European Champs!], when they perform badly, or lose a game, I am disappointed and UPSET. And if the coach or players were to avoid the press afterwards I would be seriously pissed off, but it wouldn't mean that my dedication or love for them would be any less.


----------



## coldcall420

daitrong said:


> You are such a hypocrite. As if _you_
> have faced every fear you've ever had _like a man_, handled all failures you've ever had _like a man_, owned up to every mistake you ever made _like a man_, or handled every disappointment you've ever faced _like a man_. Normally, those who are most critical of other people's mistakes or failures, are the ones most guilty of committing it themselves. (past or present) Sure, it was unfortunate that Forrest left so abruptly. I, too, was thinking what the heck is he doing. But, anyone with even a bit of compassion with see that Forrest is an emotional guy and trying to deal with the surge of disappointment the best way he knows how. *So in the end, get over yourself*. A man's character is not judge by how he acts in the midst of his failures, but it's how he comes back from it.


 
Im not sure why you have selected me to attack with this nonsense since there are many that feel this way, but lets get this clear...

You dont know me son...at all, and you certainly are in no position to call me a hypocrite nor tell what I have or havent done.....

I have given my reasons if you dont like them thats fine....we'll just agree to leave this here.....

CC420:thumbsup:



Nefilim777 said:


> I think what most people are trying to say is that they have been greatly disappointed by Forrest running away after the fight, and not talking staying to talk to the fans, the people that make the sport. Remember everyone, you can have all the sponsors you want, but without fans, there is no sport. This forum is a testament to it. Ill draw another example too; one of my other sporting loves is Rugby, even greater then MMA. I hold a season ticket for Leinster RFC [European Champs!], when they perform badly, or lose a game, I am disappointed and UPSET. And if the coach or players were to avoid the press afterwards I would be seriously pissed off, but it wouldn't mean that my dedication or love for them would be any less.


 
Case and point.......as BTW I listed above.....


----------



## Satori

Nefilim777 said:


> I think what most people are trying to say is that they have been greatly disappointed by Forrest running away after the fight, and not talking staying to talk to the fans, the people that make the sport. Remember everyone, you can have all the sponsors you want, but without fans, there is no sport. This forum is a testament to it. Ill draw another example too; one of my other sporting loves is Rugby, even greater then MMA. I hold a season ticket for Leinster RFC [European Champs!], when they perform badly, or lose a game, I am disappointed and UPSET. And if the coach or players were to avoid the press afterwards I would be seriously pissed off, but it wouldn't mean that my dedication or love for them would be any less.



DAM GOOD POST--- WOW my thoughts in your words exactly. +rep but I must spread the love a bit before I do so.

O


----------



## Nefilim777

Thanks gents, glad someone agrees.


----------



## ufcrules

It's the same thing he did when he ran out of the ring after the Jardine fight. "I lost, I'm pissed and now I'm out of here." I don't see anything wrong with that.


----------



## joeyc1137

i think anderson silva is just like wandy was back in pride, just assasinating people from the next weight class up, hes gonna keep fightin bigger people til he finally loses to someone, just duuno who


----------



## SideWays222

OMG Forrest!! i just cant believe you.... i will never be able to look into your eyes again. YOU RAN AWAY!!!!! HOW COULD YOU???? I dont even believe this. MMA is dead to me. Thank you Forrest Griffin.


----------



## Kasporelli

yall are some corny mothers


----------



## coldcall420

Breadfan said:


> Some people have said that Machida runs away for a living, even though I've liked him since his fight with BJ. You're playing very offensive/defensive here. chill out.
> 
> I still don't care that Forrest left. Better to leave than to do something stupid like lose his temper after the fight at Joe Rogan or something.
> 
> This loss was the epitome of devastating. He did what he felt he had to do, and I'd bet my paycheck that he didn't do it out of disrespect to Silva, and I'm sure Silva isn't mad in the least bit.


Breadfan I never need a chill pill...Im always chillin, on the real Im not playing offensive/defensive at all....Hell Im not sure what that even means.....

One guy is elusive and known for outstanding footwork and the ability to have his opponent throw a punch then not be there when its supposed to land......(Machida)

The other guy is the former UFC LHW Champ and couldnt stick aroud to give an interview for the fans, sponsers and all the supporters....whatever his reasons thats not playing offensive and defensive....:confused02:

Thats one guy thats a master at not getting hit and one guy that when he loses seems to run away each time........

BTW....Machida didnt run from Rashad, nor did he run from Thiago who was supposed to be backing Lyoto down, instead Lyoto brought it to Thiago imstead and people dont give him that credit....and a fighter you may feel he ran from, other may argue he eluded....its semantics but hopefully were clear....

CC420


----------



## swpthleg

I don't want to see any more man-periods in this thread. I don't mean you, Coldcall


----------



## M.C

Man-periods happen, Swptheleg, you just have to ride it out.

Sandwiches help.


----------



## TERMINATOR

Has anyone made the "run forrest....run" remark yet?


----------



## M.C

I'm a Forrest fan, but man, this is funny.


----------



## mmawizkid69

the thing that made me like forrest was that win or lose he was respectful about it. And now he loses to Anderson Silva, which there is no shame in, and then runs away. I cant believe he would do this. He went from being one of my favorite fighters to one of my least. I think this action he pulled is lower than Brock getting in Frank Mirs face after a beatdown. Forrest you have lost every bit of respect I had for you.


----------



## Johnnybrollic

Rachmunas said:


> What about Rich Franklin getting knocked out in his home town against Silva??? The two embraced after the fight. It was a great thing to watch!!
> 
> Forest running to the back was an f'n joke!


...really dude? This isn't wrestling dude. this is real people, real emotions. MMA fighters are driven by their sense of pride. You should just respect them for doing their job and shut the **** up.


----------



## swpthleg

Welcome to the forum.

And yes, we have seen the run Forrest run thing....many, many, many times.

Sandwiches are extremely helpful in averting or ameliorating a man-period, MC. But I make sure to take a bite before I give it to him, heheheh.


----------



## M.C

Does that not angry the man-period when you bite from the sandwich?


----------



## tcs2k01

The fight was dissapointing, but I still love Forrest as a fighter. Anderson just looked flawless, he makes good fighters look awful. Forrest was probably embarassed that his fans had to see this.


----------



## swpthleg

Michael Carson said:


> Does that not angry the man-period when you bite from the sandwich?


Not so far. My grief over Forrest losing seems to have improved my sandwich making skillz.


----------



## M.C

That's funny, cause my grief over Forrest losing has increased the amount of sandwiches I can inhale.

I eat when I'm depressed.


----------



## swpthleg

Michael Carson said:


> That's funny, cause my grief over Forrest losing has increased the amount of sandwiches I can inhale.
> 
> I eat when I'm depressed.


Man, If I told you how much pinot grigio I drank while crying in the tub and watching Lifetime, you'd.........oh shit.


----------



## M.C

swpthleg said:


> Man, If I told you how much pinot grigio I drank while crying in the tub and watching Lifetime, you'd.........oh shit.


You had me involved and very focused on your post until "Lifetime".

Which works out well, cause it was the end of your post.

I cry in the tub all the time, so there's no shame in that. I don't fill the tub with water, though, I let my own tears do that job.

To stay on topic, Forrest is awesome.


----------



## Breadfan

machidaisgod said:


> I am a Kung fu and Tae Kwan Doe Blackbelt and have fought in many fights with friends where I (170 lbs) fought someone over 200 lbs and was never asked what weight division I was in so you p4p knuckleheads get into a real fight cause then you will understand thate p4p means nothing in the streets you keyboard fighters.


You're an idiot. this is EXACTLY what p4p is good for. Also, You are not a Kung fu nor a "Tae Kwan Doe" black belt. You are a keyboard warrior.


----------



## coldcall420

*Tito Ortiz On Chuck Liddell: Too Bad He Reitred*

_



"I have no more pain, no more soreness, no more numbness going down my legs; I’m back in to fighting shape again. I just started working with Freddie Roach out of Los Angeles, the ‘Wild Card,’ and I’m excited. For once I’m gonna be 100 percent, and hopefully the fans get to the see the champion I was before, ’cause the last time I was 100 percent, when I was the world champion, and I defended my world title five consecutive times … I gotta give the respect to Chuck Liddell, he was a great champion. Too bad he retired, a rematch with him would be nice, and I think the fans would love to see that.”

Click to expand...

_Figures he starts with the mouth running......this is what annoys me with Tito, like now he knows there is no chance at least for now that he could possibly face Chuck, the guy he dodged forever then got whipped by, so he starts to open that huge mouth of his...."oh im the only guy that went three rounds with Machida."


Shut the Phuck up Tito.....earn some respect instead of thinking you just deserve it cuz of what you did like 8 yrs ago......


----------



## All_In

He's definitely gonna fight Liddell again. I will love it.


----------



## Biowza

I don't really see anything too bad in what he is saying. All he's saying is that he's 100% and that he can't wait to get back in the octagon.


----------



## Villian

What are you talking about? Tito gave props to Chuck and said he's back to 100% and wouldn't mind fighting Chuck again. Whats the problem with that? 


People just find the silliest reasons to hate Tito.


----------



## AceCombat

I still don't think Tito can beat anyone he can't take down.

It's not even that his stand-up is that flawed, its just the epitome, the literal definition, of ineffective.


----------



## xeberus

yup to bad


----------



## wado lado

xeberus said:


> yup to bad


wow!! i could watch that a million times and still be entertained


----------



## Villian




----------



## xeberus

:thumb02:


----------



## coldcall420

Biowza said:


> I don't really see anything too bad in what he is saying. All he's saying is that he's 100% and that he can't wait to get back in the octagon.


 
Yeah now that the guy he is saying it about is retired......



Villian said:


> What are you talking about? Tito gave props to Chuck and said he's back to 100% and wouldn't mind fighting Chuck again. Whats the problem with that?
> 
> 
> People just find the silliest reasons to hate Tito.


 
Same reason I gave above......Typical Tito.....


----------



## No_Mercy

wado lado said:


> wow!! i could watch that a million times and still be entertained


That will forever be immortalized in ENTOURAGE! Anybody see that episode. Shit was hilarious! You got...GOT!

For real that would draw in large numbers. But "IF" Chuck somehow loses that would set up another one...but hey I'm sure people will pay to see it for the heck of it!

I think a fight with Forrest would make sense too for Chuck to leave the UFC in a winning note!


----------



## Biowza

coldcall420 said:


> Yeah now that the guy he is saying it about is retired......


 *I gotta give the respect to Chuck Liddell, he was a great champion. Too bad he retired, a rematch with him would be nice*

Could you direct me to the part which is disrespectful to Chuck?


----------



## Villian

Biowza said:


> *I gotta give the respect to Chuck Liddell, he was a great champion. Too bad he retired, a rematch with him would be nice*
> 
> Could you direct me to the part which is disrespectful to Chuck?


I think he's a troll.


----------



## coldcall420

Biowza said:


> *I gotta give the respect to Chuck Liddell, he was a great champion. Too bad he retired, a rematch with him would be nice*
> 
> Could you direct me to the part which is disrespectful to Chuck?


*As soon as you show me where I said he disrespected Chuck......what the hell is wrong with you, are you just looking for an argument so you put words in peoples mouths so you can then call them out on what they never said?????*


Read, Tito needs to shut up and earn some respect by winning, not comming back after the way he left and saying he wishes he could fight a guy he dodged for half his career.......who's convieniently retired now......

*STOP PUTTING WORDS IN PEOPLES MOUTHS......*


I said he needs to earn some respect, I never said anything about him disrespecting Chuck......get you shit straight before you post that crap......

Sorry to vent dude but dam, I didnt even say these things....:confused03:



Villian said:


> What are you talking about? Tito gave props to Chuck and said he's back to 100% and wouldn't mind fighting Chuck again. Whats the problem with that?
> 
> 
> People just find the silliest reasons to hate Tito.





Villian said:


> I think he's a troll.


 
Again...learn to read.......I'll take all your red away if you can show me where I wrote that......oh wait....you cant......

READ WHAT PEOPLE WRITE instead of just jumping to conclusions then ridicule them for something they never said......

Not really worth takin the time to respond but there you go.......


----------



## tykilroy

He may not be disrespecting Chuck in this post but on the plane he did call Chuck a bitch. I think Tito working with Roach will really be good for Tito as far as standing. Tito has always had a hell of a chin and that mixed with good stand up could be dangerous for anyone. I don't always agree or even like the shit that comes out of his mouth but he has always been entertaining and he helped put UFC on the map.


----------



## Villian

I would point it out but there's no use. No one has the power to take my red away I'm negative 103624


----------



## xeberus

Villian said:


> I would point it out but there's no use. No one has the power to take my red away I'm negative 103624


good god... thats a lot of red.


----------



## Biowza

coldcall420 said:


> *As soon as you show me where I said he disrespected Chuck......what the hell is wrong with you, are you just looking for an argument so you put words in peoples mouths so you can then call them out on what they never said?????*


You didn't say in as many words that Tito is _disrespecting_ Chuck, but it's pretty clear that's what you think. There's nothing else in that quote for you to be angry at aside from the part where he talks about Chuck. Why be angry at that part if you don't think he was disrespectful or rude towards him? 



coldcall420 said:


> Read, Tito needs to shut up and earn some respect by winning, not comming back after the way he left and saying he wishes he could fight a guy he dodged for half his career.......who's convieniently retired now......


Again, there are plenty of reasons to not like Tito, but this quote isn't one of them. He said he respected Chuck and that he was a great champion also it is a shame that he retired because he would have liked to fight him again. What part of that makes you so hostile towards Tito?

I also didn't see you going on a tyrade towards BJ when he said recently



> I'd like to get a fight with St. Pierre again


It's along the same lines, BJ knows that he won't get to fight St Pierre again any time soon, he just got dominated and he won't get another shot at GSP for a LONG while. Where were your hostilities then? BJ said pretty much the identical thing to Tito. "I'm rejuvinated, looking forward to my next fight...etc,etc." When Tito says it he should "Shut the Phuck up" and "earn some respect".


----------



## coldcall420

Villian said:


> I would point it out but there's no use. No one has the power to take my red away I'm negative 103624


 

You cant point it out because it was never written...:confused05: Clear now???

lets try to get back to the topic of my post, which was simply that Tito needs to prove himself right now as opposed to talk, especially about people that have already beaten him and now are retired...........


----------



## locnott

tykilroy said:


> He may not be disrespecting Chuck in this post but on the plane he did call Chuck a bitch. I think Tito working with Roach will really be good for Tito as far as standing. Tito has always had a hell of a chin and that mixed with good stand up could be dangerous for anyone. I don't always agree or even like the shit that comes out of his mouth but he has always been entertaining and he helped put UFC on the map.


The UFC had been on the map long before Tito, he happend to be the next big thing when the UFC hit the main stream.
Had Frank Shammrock not retired from the UFC after he beat Tito I dont think we are even talking about Tito.jmo
He reminds me of Eric Cartman afraid to fight wendy on south park,if you saw the episode you will know what I mean..


----------



## Villian

coldcall420 said:


> You cant point *it out because it was never written...:confused05: Clear now???*
> 
> lets try to get back to the topic of my post, which was simply that Tito needs to prove himself right now as opposed to talk, especially about people that have already beaten him and now are retired...........


It was never written but it's quite obvious what you were getting at:confused02:

Just admit you blindly hate Tito and are critisizing him for no apparent reason.


----------



## coldcall420

Biowza said:


> You didn't say in as many words that Tito is _disrespecting_ Chuck, *but it's pretty clear that's what you think*. There's nothing else in that quote for you to be angry at aside from the part where he talks about Chuck. *Why be angry at that part if you don't think he was disrespectful or rude towards him? *
> 
> 
> Again, there are plenty of reasons to not like Tito, *but this quote isn't one of them. He said he respected Chuck and that he was a great champion* also it is a shame that he retired because he would have liked to fight him again. What part of that makes you so hostile towards Tito?
> 
> I also didn't see you going on a tyrade towards BJ when he said recently
> 
> 
> 
> It's along the same lines, BJ knows that he won't get to fight St Pierre again any time soon, he just got dominated and he won't get another shot at GSP for a LONG while. Where were your hostilities then? BJ said pretty much the identical thing to Tito. "I'm rejuvinated, looking forward to my next fight...etc,etc." When Tito says it he should "Shut the Phuck up" and "earn some respect".


 
Biowza.....this and I am being totally cool about it.....This first thing in your response that I made bold...is phuckin bullshit, your basically assuming that I meant something that I didnt mean......

That is very annoying, because I now have to respond to your assumptions....what i did mean is that Tito should be glad he's back and make people respect him through his performances.......FORGET CHUCK OR ANYTHING ABOUT HIM.....just in general he needs to earn at least for me.....my respect not talk about what he would like to be, he has done that long enough.....





*"Why be angry at that part if youdont feel he was disrespectful or rude towards him?"*

*AGAIN* I wasnt referring to Chuck, but rather his return to the UFC.......I can think that he is saying wow another fight with chuck would be great and have a poblem with that without thinking he is disrespecting Chuck......

Biowza......maybe you dont know this but Tito dodged Chuck while tito had the belt yrs ago....he talked about how he was in great shape when they fought and after the loss it was "oh my back"....

The entire point of my post was dont suggest a match-up with a man you dodged half your career and now he is retired say you would like to fight him...


TITO'S LEVEL OF RESPECT FOR CHUCK WAS NEVER IN QUESTION FOR THIS THREAD.......until you made it about that.....

So thanks for HiJacking the thread....:thumbsup:


Finally: *"He said he respected Chuck and he was a great champion"*

Biowza thats great dude, no one ever said he didnt....

I hope were clear dude cuz your a cool cat but you have def read way wrong into this thread and you should never assume you know what someone thinks or meant to say....esp when they never said it......


Jeesh.....CC420



Villian said:


> It was never written but it's quite obvious what you were getting at:confused02:
> 
> Just admit you blindly hate Tito and are critisizing him for no apparent reason.


 
Not worth the time......lol I just looked at your profile and you have been banned 5 times...lol yeah your not a troll.....


----------



## Villian

Damn CC you're all over the place. Tito can suggest whatever the hell he wants. When Chuck was asked about Rampage he said I'll love to fight him again, So what Big deal!! These guys are fighters :confused02:


Yea if you cant win a silly argument change the subject and start talking some irrelevant garbage about my profile. Notice that 4 of the 5 "mods" have since been banned themselves.


----------



## coldcall420

Villian said:


> Damn CC you're all over the place. Tito can suggest whatever the hell he wants. When Chuck was asked about Rampage he said I'll love to fight him again, So what Big deal!! These guys are fighters :confused02:
> 
> 
> *Yea if you cant win a silly argument change the subject and start talking some irrelevant garbage about my profile*. Notice that 4 of the 5 "mods" have since been banned themselves.


 

Thats it bro...Im not here to argue, you seem to only do it......

Chuck never dodged Rampage and really im not all over the place, perhaps you are reading too far in as I have pointed out that its about Tito thinking he can just pick up where he left off talkin shit like he's on top of the division....

Do I like Tito no.....but if he were saying I'd like to fight rashad again i would be saying somthing similar....he needs to shut up and earn that right to fight Rashad...

I cant be more clear...unless you just want to go round and round......in that case PM me so others can share constructive thoughts on this article......


----------



## HeelHooker

coldcall420 said:


> Figures he starts with the mouth running......this is what annoys me with Tito, like now he knows there is no chance at least for now that he could possibly face Chuck, the guy he dodged forever then got whipped by, so he starts to open that huge mouth of his...."oh im the only guy that went three rounds with Machida."
> 
> 
> Shut the Phuck up Tito.....earn some respect instead of thinking you just deserve it cuz of what you did like 8 yrs ago......


Agreed. Tito needs to focus on rebuilding his name in the cage, not with silly promos...this isn`t the WWE.


----------



## Biowza

coldcall420 said:


> Biowza.....this and I am being totally cool about it.....This first thing in your response that I made bold...is phuckin bullshit, your basically assuming that I meant something that I didnt mean......
> 
> That is very annoying, because I now have to respond to your assumptions....what i did mean is that Tito should be glad he's back and make people respect him through his performances.......FORGET CHUCK OR ANYTHING ABOUT HIM.....just in general he needs to earn at least for me.....my respect not talk about what he would like to be, he has done that long enough.....
> 
> *"Why be angry at that part if youdont feel he was disrespectful or rude towards him?"*
> 
> *AGAIN* I wasnt referring to Chuck, but rather his return to the UFC.......I can think that he is saying wow another fight with chuck would be great and have a poblem with that without thinking he is disrespecting Chuck......
> 
> Biowza......maybe you dont know this but Tito dodged Chuck while tito had the belt yrs ago....he talked about how he was in great shape when they fought and after the loss it was "oh my back"....
> 
> The entire point of my post was dont suggest a match-up with a man you dodged half your career and now he is retired say you would like to fight him...


Ok, so your main beef is that he said he would like to have fought Chuck one more time when he knew this would never happen? This is a pretty poor reason, seeing the frequency that fighters make these claims. BJ's done the exact same thing with GSP only a few days ago.

-He said he wants to fight GSP again
-He was in "the best shape of his life" before the fight and after the fight it was "grease/steroids/cheats"
-He knows himself that this fight won't happen again for a very long time (I actually think a Tito/Chuck rematch would be more likely)

All this is the exact same thing as what BJ, and lots of other fighter's have done as far as "challenges-that-will-probably-never-realise" go, Tito's is probably the most polite and least assuming I've seen in a while. 



> So thanks for HiJacking the thread....:thumbsup:


I didn't Hi-Jack the thread at all. I still maintain that you think Tito disrespected Chuck, but I won't press the point. It's just my opinion.


----------



## xeberus

Villian said:


> Yea if you cant win a silly argument change the subject and start talking some irrelevant garbage about my profile. Notice that 4 of the 5 "mods" have since been banned themselves.


When you win an argument on the internet your penis grows an inch, you get 1 million dollars and hot girls come out of the woodwork to **** you.. well.. that or you look like a prick forget which one :confused02:


I think only time will tell whether tito can make an impact on the lhw divison again.


----------



## coldcall420

Biowza said:


> *Ok, so your main beef is that he said he would like to have fought Chuck one more time when he knew this would never happen?* This is a pretty poor reason, seeing the frequency that fighters make these claims. BJ's done the exact same thing with GSP only a few days ago.
> 
> -He said he wants to fight GSP again
> -He was in "the best shape of his life" before the fight and after the fight it was "grease/steroids/cheats"
> -He knows himself that this fight won't happen again for a very long time (I actually think a Tito/Chuck rematch would be more likely)
> 
> All this is the exact same thing as what BJ, and lots of other fighter's have done as far as "challenges-that-will-probably-never-realise" go, Tito's is probably the most polite and least assuming I've seen in a while.
> 
> 
> *I didn't Hi-Jack the thread at all. I still maintain that you think Tito disrespected Chuck, but I won't press the point. It's just my opinion*.


 
The bold part......YES....and Biowza thats all I was saying.....mainly because to counter your next point in your response, because IMO were not gonna see Chuck again......and i think Tito knows that....IMO(and Im assuming that so....I could be wrong)

As far as BJ your analogy is almost perfect except for all intensive purposes Chuck is basically retired and BJ is not only an active fighter but holds the belt obviously.......

I might be wrong about chuck comming back but with Dana not wanting him to fight anymore, them putting him in the Hall of Fame, and.....the belly he had when he got the award, all make me think Chuck will not be fighting again.....

I guess I would rather hear tito say somthing like Im glad to be back and there is a lot of great competion that i cannot wait to test myself against.....not too bad he retired.......:thumbsup:


The last part in bold sums up what a waste of time trying to explain myself to you was...how much more sincere could I have been when I tried to explain my thinking and that you shouldnt assume......

If your mentality is like that....Im done with this.......


----------



## jbyrd

I personally like Tito. Dude was hilarious taunting Shamrock on The Ultimate Fighter. I look forward to seeing him fight again, and I would not be surprised if he beats Liddell. I think Liddell's egg has been cracked too many times by now.


----------



## tykilroy

locnott said:


> The UFC had been on the map long before Tito, he happend to be the next big thing when the UFC hit the main stream.
> Had Frank Shammrock not retired from the UFC after he beat Tito I dont think we are even talking about Tito.jmo
> He reminds me of Eric Cartman afraid to fight wendy on south park,if you saw the episode you will know what I mean..


What do you mean long before Tito ? Frank Shamrock came awhile after Tito had been owning the heavyweight devision. Then they made the middle weight devision and then Shamrock came along. Frank Shamrock was a good fighter but he was never in the UFC long enough to make a difference. Tito has been in the UFC since UFC 13 and saying he had nothing to do with the UFCs success is just being ignorant and proves you dont know shit.


----------



## Sekou

Villian said:


>


KO of the decade :thumbsup:


----------



## Evil Ira

I'm going to agree with ColdCall on this one.

I'm a fan of Tito, and think he's a good fighter. 

But the first time when the match with Chuck Liddell was suggested, he started making excuses up, like ''Me and Chuck aren't going to fight, we're friends!''

When Liddell pointed out that these statements weren't true, and him and Ortiz weren't actually close friends, everyone could see that Ortiz was trying to duck a fight with Liddell, wanting to keep hold of his Light-Heavyweight Championship belt.

Then, all of a sudden, Chuck starts losing fights, and makes a sensible decision to retire instead of keep on fighting as a B-Level fighter, like Sakuraba.

When Ortiz sees this, he acts like he's always wanted a rematch with Chuck, saying it was too bad he had retired, he would have liked to fight him again.

Ortiz is way younger than Chuck, and would obviously hae an advantage now, since Ortiz is still a pretty good fighter (although he has not won a single fight since 2006, whether this is because he was inactive, I do not know).

My point is, you don't duck a fighter when he is in his prime, and then call him out when he is at his lowest point in his career.

By the way, for the people who are misunderstanding ColdCall, and making up statements, use the quote system, and try to discuss what he's said in his actual post. 

I'm not trying to have a go at anyone (except you Villian, calling ColdCall a troll when he is a divisional Moderator, he has that spot for a reason), I'm just trying to express my opinion.


----------



## 6toes

Where exactly was this quoted from Coldcall? I'm having trouble seeing your point at the moment. I mean, unless Tito held a press conference to share his feelings on a rematch with Chuck, I really don't see what he's doing wrong here. I mean, yeah the guy probably ducked Chuck in the past and he's made himself into a clear villain over the years but I'm starting to find him much more tolerable nowadays. I actually felt that was a decent quote by Tito, as long as it's sincere.

And please don't mistake this for me trying to start/join in on an argument. I just want to know more about the situation before I really make my mind up about this quote.

And Evil Ira, I really don't feel like Tito is calling Chuck out on this one. He didn't even say he would beat Chuck, he just said he thought it would be a good fight and that the fans would probably like to see it again.

Edit- Actually now that I look at the quote, the whole "The last time I was at 100% was when I defended my title 5 times" is a little peculiar :dunno:


----------



## h2so4

Tito is going around and promoting his comeback to UFC. He needs to rebuild his image and hype his first comeback fight. He used to be huge PPV draw and Dana would love for him to continue to do so. That being said.. I see no harm in what he said. He may resume being cocky after few wins though.


----------



## diablo5597

coldcall420 said:


> Figures he starts with the mouth running......this is what annoys me with Tito, like now he knows there is no chance at least for now that he could possibly face Chuck, the guy he dodged forever then got whipped by, so he starts to open that huge mouth of his...."oh im the only guy that went three rounds with Machida."
> 
> 
> Shut the Phuck up Tito.....earn some respect instead of thinking you just deserve it cuz of what you did like 8 yrs ago......


I'm with you on this Coldcall. Tito really pisses me off. Tito is a B level fighter at best and is running his mouth about getting back his title and dominating the division. Basically what I heard when I read this is "I'm the best fighter ever and if my back didn't hurt I would still be champion." He's basically saying that in a subtle manner. I could be wrong but that's how it comes across to me. 

anyone agree?


----------



## ericr

1 - Tito said he is "finally" at 100%, yet he said that in many of his previous fights that he LOST. Sounds like he is making excuses for those loses just like he always has.

2 - Tito was flat out scared of Liddell and got dominated.

3 - Tito acts like a spoiled little kid, talking trash but not backing it up, and whining whenever he doesn't get his way.

As a fighter, I enjoy seeing him fight when he is aggressive and is throwing those elbows. As a person, I don't see how anyone can like him.


----------



## SideWays222

coldcall420 said:


> Figures he starts with the mouth running......this is what annoys me with Tito, like now he knows there is no chance at least for now that he could possibly face Chuck, the guy he dodged forever then got whipped by, so he starts to open that huge mouth of his...."oh im the only guy that went three rounds with Machida."
> 
> 
> Shut the Phuck up Tito.....earn some respect instead of thinking you just deserve it cuz of what you did like 8 yrs ago......


Tito thinks he is the only person who has gone 3 rounds with Machida??? LOL
im pretty sure you made that up. :thumb02:

In the UFC

David Heath
Sam hoger
Nakamura

have all accomplished what Tito thinks he is the only one to have done.


----------



## coldcall420

SideWays222 said:


> Tito thinks he is the only person who has gone 3 rounds with Machida??? LOL
> im pretty sure you made that up. :thumb02:
> 
> In the UFC
> 
> David Heath
> Sam hoger
> Nakamura
> 
> have all accomplished what Tito thinks he is the only one to have done.


 
He wasnt the only one he was saying that he had most likely have beaten rashad, was able to go three rounds with machida and babbling about how he feels better than ever.....

I probably didnt explain it correctly...im sure he knows he's not the only one....


----------



## SideWays222

coldcall420 said:


> He wasnt the only one he was saying that he had most likely have beaten rashad, was able to go three rounds with machida and babbling about how he feels better than ever.....
> 
> I probably didnt explain it correctly...im sure he knows he's not the only one....


Ahhh Gotcha!!!

I remember that now. Little does Tito know is that he didnt land a single punch on Machida and the only thing he did was at the end when he did that triangle choke. So good job tito in a 15 minute fight you up up a 10 second struggle.


----------



## Buckingham

xeberus said:


> yup to bad





Villian said:


>





xeberus said:


> :thumb02:


HA, you guys are retarded and that was the funniest 4 post in a row probably ever.


----------



## xeberus

Buckingham said:


> HA, you guys are retarded and that was the funniest 4 post in a row probably ever.


gif wars


----------



## coldcall420

*Couture Says He's Interested In Fighting Lyoto Machida*

_



“I’m very intrigued by him and his style and what he’s done. He’s so patient, he doesn’t care what the crowd is saying. He’s gonna fight the way he’s gonna fight and he doesn’t [care]. He’s been very successful at it and I’ve enjoyed watching him. He’s got a very unique fighting style and he intrigues me. That’s a fight I would be very interested in. At some level you have to meet a guy and step onto his turf a little bit to engage him to lead him away. It would be very interesting to see what that would take.”

Click to expand...

_Intresting but randy is starting to wear on me with the whole I want to fight anyone with a belt........thoughts???


CC420:thumbsup:


----------



## vandalian

He's on about this again?

It's hard to know if he brought it up, though, or if he's just answering a question about it.

Either way, I think Machida wins. Randy has some tools that may give Lyoto problems, but he's, you know, elusive.


----------



## Baby Jay D.

I actually think Randy has a decent chance compared to a lot of the potential opponents for Machida. I don't think he'd win but I think he has the best tools, with his greco and dirty boxing, for giving Machida some trouble.


----------



## GStP

Machida would murder him. He needs to earn his shot.


----------



## VolcomX311

Baby Jay D. said:


> I actually think Randy has a decent chance compared to a lot of the potential opponents for Machida. I don't think he'd win but I think he has the best tools, with his greco and dirty boxing, for giving Machida some trouble.


Randy would need to get close enough over and over and over again. Machida has no interest in standing and trading, which is what Randy uses to achieve that clinch. I actually think Machida's (excessively evasive) style is particularly difficult for Randy's up close battle plans.


----------



## Chris32

GStP said:


> Machida would murder him. He needs to earn his shot.


Agree 100%


----------



## dudeabides

He talks about how he'd use his wrestling against him in this interview video, at the 14:00 point.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

He wants to fight the best in the world... when did this become something to find issue with, and not to admire?


----------



## Ground'N'Pound5

probably a struggling fight but ill give it to lyoto


----------



## Davisty69

Canadian Psycho said:


> He wants to fight the best in the world... when did this become something to find issue with, and not to admire?


Thank you... Someone that isn't just looking to hate.:thumb02:


----------



## LevelM

Canadian Psycho said:


> He wants to fight the best in the world... when did this become something to find issue with, and not to admire?


I don't think it isn't something to admire per se but like others have said Randy wants to fight everyone. It does get a little repetitive to the point of annoying.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

LevelM said:


> I don't think it isn't something to admire per se but like others have said Randy wants to fight everyone. It does get a little repetitive to the point of annoying.


From what I can tell, he's only really come out and said, 'I want to fight Fedor'. He's also mentioned that he'd be _interested_ in the idea of fighting Lyoto and Anderson. That's three fighters. Some might say the three top fighters in the world. And so I reiterate. Randy wants to fight the best. Not _every_ fighter in MMA. I'm not being disrespectful. I just think that some of you are severely sensationalizing this. Furthermore, as MMA fans, we should be thrilled by the prospect of Randy Couture versus any of the three aforementioned fighters. Not rolling our eyes at it.


----------



## coldcall420

VolcomX311 said:


> Randy would need to get close enough over and over and over again. *Machida has no interest in standing and trading*, which is what Randy uses to achieve that clinch. I actually think Machida's (excessively evasive) style is particularly difficult for Randy's up close battle plans.


 
The highlighted part is exactly what Machida would do.....what else do you think he would do, take Randy down??? No, clinch no, it would def be a standing fight and that is def where Machida would look to keep it and have the advantage......:thumbsup:



Canadian Psycho said:


> From what I can tell, he's only really come out and said, 'I want to fight Fedor'. He's also mentioned that he'd be _interested_ in the idea of fighting Lyoto and Anderson. That's three fighters. Some might say the three top fighters in the world. And so I reiterate. Randy wants to fight the best. Not _every_ fighter in MMA. I'm not being disrespectful. I just think that some of you are severely sensationalizing this. Furthermore, as MMA fans, we should be thrilled by the prospect of Randy Couture versus any of the three aforementioned fighters. Not rolling our eyes at it.


 

Yeah, your totally right but why does he feel like he just deserves a shot....I mean I realize things get taken out of context, but to move in weight classes you then need to establish a couple wins in that repective division before just expecting a fight.......:confused02:


----------



## Nefilim777

I'd like to see Randy fight Machida, I think Machida would win, but I'd still like to see it.


----------



## Chileandude

coldcall420 said:


> The highlighted part is exactly what Machida would do.....what else do you think he would do, take Randy down??? No, clinch no, it would def be a standing fight and that is def where Machida would look to keep it and have the advantage......:thumbsup:


I think he meant he wouldn't be standing in the same spot and trading leather but rather sticking and moving.


----------



## jdun11

Randy's Greco could give Machida problems. I think he could close the gap and take Lyoto down.

Id give him a good shot.


----------



## swpthleg

coldcall420 said:


> _
> 
> Intresting but randy is starting to wear on me with the whole I want to fight anyone with a belt........thoughts???
> 
> 
> CC420:thumbsup:_


_

I think he should concentrating on coaching Gina so awesomely that SHE has a belt one day._


----------



## Fieos

swpthleg said:


> I think he should concentrating on coaching Gina so awesomely that SHE has a belt one day.


I don't see Gina ever getting past Cyborg. I do think Gina could be a 135lb champion though.


----------



## VolcomX311

jdun11 said:


> Randy's Greco could give Machida problems. I think he could close the gap and take Lyoto down.
> 
> Id give him a good shot.


I'm not comparing Randy to Tito Ortiz or anything, but the similarity in this particular instance is a style on style issue. Tito's biggest issue wasn't so much a simple closing of the gap. Tito could close the gap to strike and close it enough to "attempt" double/single leg TD's, it was the issue of closing the gap enough to wrap his arms around Lyoto (for muay thai clinch or under hooks). As an overall fighter, clearly Randy beats out Tito, but if we're talking strictly about wrestling ability, I actually think Tito's TD is stronger. I think Randy is much better at working the clinch then Tito, but that's a level of proximity that Lyoto is not known to give up.

That said, Randy is a smart fighter and has a good talent for adjusting, but I don't think he could adjust enough to effectively utilize his dirty boxing. Lyoto rarely gets that close and when he does, it's usually just his leg kicking you with his torso still 5 feet back, 6" with his "Karate" back-lean.


----------



## VolcomX311

coldcall420 said:


> The highlighted part is exactly what Machida would do.....what else do you think he would do, take Randy down??? No, clinch no, it would def be a standing fight and that is def where Machida would look to keep it and have the advantage......:thumbsup:


I don't think we're in disagreement, I was sort of sticking up for Lyoto and making a case as to why Randy would have a hard time against him.


----------



## VolcomX311

Chileandude said:


> I think he meant he wouldn't be standing in the same spot and trading leather but rather sticking and moving.


:thumb03:


----------



## Canadian Psycho

coldcall420 said:


> Yeah, your totally right but why does he feel like he just deserves a shot....I mean I realize things get taken out of context, but to move in weight classes you then need to establish a couple wins in that repective division before just expecting a fight.......:confused02:


A point of view which I can both appreciate and respect. I'm all for earning your spot. That said, there are certain fighters who are effectively able to 'ride' their names and accomplishments, so to speak. With what BJ has done, he was able to move up and get an immediate title shot at GSP, and while some were against it, most simply wanted to see what was perceived to be a battle between two of the best in the sport. The same could be said of GSP. His name value alone could earn him a fight with Anderson at Middleweight, and could no doubt do the same for Silva at Light Heavyweight were he willing to fight for the belt.

Randy has done and accomplished enough to warrant being considered a 'super-fight' contender, which is why you'd see him placed almost immediately against the likes of Silva or Lyoto. He's proven what he's capable of, and while you, myself, and others might appreciate him working his way up the ladder, he's certainly earned a 'pass' here and there. In the end, I think we're more likely to see Silva vs. Couture, and if Randy can get by Anderson, I'd say he's more than earned his shot at Machida. Whether or not he can, however, is a completely different story. I do believe it's a fight we'll see in the not too distant future.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

I respect Randy for wanting to fight the best but everyone else in that division would love a title shot as well. and with a 16-9 record coming off a loss where he lost his title doesnt convince me that he deserves a shot at lyoto right now.


----------



## Suvaco

Randy had trouble with Chuck's counter-striking style. It's completely different than Machida's, but still. If Machida could stay elusive and punish Couture when he goes in for a clinch or takedown (which I think he can do), he wins this fight. I give it to Machida 7 or 8 times out of 10. And, really, when dealing with Machida, can you ever hope for better than 20-30% probability of winning?


----------



## coldcall420

VolcomX311 said:


> I don't think we're in disagreement, I was sort of sticking up for Lyoto and making a case as to why Randy would have a hard time against him.


 

Gotcha read it wrong.......we are in agreement......:thumbsup:


----------



## coldcall420

*UFC Quick Quote: Kenny Florian is ‘fired up,’ still wants BJs belt*

_



“I’m still at the top of the division and in one or two fights I think I can put myself back into contention to fight for the belt again. In order to do that, I’m going to have to face some tough guys, but I’m motivated and excited with that possibility…. In no way, shape or form did (Keith) ever use [

Click to expand...

_


> _the eye poke allegation__] as an excuse, and that’s definitely not the reason I lost. I lost because B.J. was the better fighter that night, simple as that…. It’s little things that I should have done better. For me, it’s basically, ‘stop talking and start doing.’ I just want to get back to training and refine everything and just get back in the cage. I’m just motivated and fired up to fight someone right now.”_


 
I think Kenny really needs a reality check, I mean i know you gota keep goin forward but please....

CC420:thumbsup:

http://mmamania.com/2009/08/23/ufc-quick-quote-kenny-florian-is-fired-up-still-wants-bjs-belt/


----------



## LRV

Florian may get the belt, but it won't be from Penn.


----------



## M.C

I'm glad Kenny isn't letting that ass whoopin' get him down.

He'll come back strong, he's a top LW and a dangerous opponent for anyone that isn't named B.J Penn.


----------



## Alienspy

Somehow i doubt he'll get a 3rd shot at the belt. I got Frankie, Sherk , Diego , Tyson , and Maynard all beating Kenny. Basically the top wrestlers in the division. Everyone can say he has improved yada yada , but wrestling is his kryptonite. I really feel if rematched with sherk, that its gonna be the same thing before, except 3 rounds. With him running away the entire fight , from a double or single.


Also , if he does run into the freight train named Rob Emerson. He might as well hang up the gloves and be a full time commentator.


----------



## MagiK11

He just came out and said this because his brother Keith was making excuses left and right. I like Kenny but I too don't see him ever beating Penn. I mean it's not like he can hope BJ starts slowing down with age, when Kenny's older than him to begin with haha. 

But I will say he's still a major force in the LW devision.


----------



## Jamal

Hes acting positive but he really was handled by BJ and i dont see him beating him EVER to be honest


----------



## rabakill

he'll never beat, penn, sherk or sanchez. He needs to go to the WEC and drop to 145.


----------



## MagiK11

rabakill said:


> he'll never beat, penn, sherk or sanchez. He needs to go to the WEC and drop to 145.


That would be ridiculous. He's a top contender and he has a chance to beat all the 155 pounders even Penn. I said I don't think he'll beat Penn but there is always a chance. He's got a chance to beat Sanchez, and Sherk as well. I think they have a higher chance of beating him but I'd never count Kenny out. To say he needs to drop to 145 and go to WEC is absurd at this point. 

Not making fun or taking jabs at you but I totally disagree with that statement.


----------



## Toxic

Glad to see Florian has a good mindset but I think I'd add Clay Guida to the list of guys I don't think he'll beat although I think Florian is much better than Diego.


----------



## AJ187

It's nice to want things Mr. Florian. Earning them's a little harder.


----------



## steveo412

It must suck to be a guy like Kenny who trains so hard and works like hell to be a top fighter and still just gets beat in every aspect of the game by a guy like BJ with pure natural talent. Kenny is a good fighter but I could never see him beating BJ. I just dont know how it could happen.


----------



## coldcall420

Toxic said:


> Glad to see Florian has a good mindset but I think I'd add Clay Guida to the list of guys I don't think he'll beat although I think Florian is much better than Diego.


I cant believe you said this Toxic...Im adding it up to you being tired or somthing....Diego owned Kenny sure a long time ago but Diego has gotten alot better as has Kenny but at the end of the day Kenny doesnt bring the fire into the cage and i just see Diego owning kenny.....But i also see BJ beating Diego(god that hurt to say) and that would set up a great fight between Kenny and Diego....




AJ187 said:


> It's nice to want things Mr. Florian. Earning them's a little harder.


Exactly......:thumbsup:


CC420


----------



## ufcrules

I think KF has a lot of good, entertaining fights left for us to watch. He almost always puts on a good show. That's all I care about.


----------



## coldcall420

ufcrules said:


> I think KF has a lot of good, entertaining fights left for us to watch. He almost always puts on a good show. That's all I care about.


 
I agree with this for sure the dude is young, his brother needs to shut up though......:thumbsup:

CC420


----------



## ufcrules

coldcall420 said:


> I agree with this for sure the dude is young, his brother needs to shut up though......:thumbsup:
> 
> CC420


Agreed. His brother is doing his best BJ immitation. Next he'll be claiming his brother was poked in the eye with vaseline.


----------



## steveo412

Yah Keith needs to quit talking and get in the cage.


----------



## coldcall420

ufcrules said:


> Agreed. His brother is doing his best BJ immitation. Next he'll be claiming his brother was poked in the eye with vaseline.


LOL......



steveo412 said:


> Yah Keith needs to quit talking and get in the cage.


 
Toaytally.....


----------



## coldcall420

*Whats Next for Chris Leben*

Whats next for Chris? I mean two losses and perhaps a rematch would be great with bisping if he wasnt already fighting. Who do you guys think he should fight????

CC420


----------



## Hellboy

He'd be a good rebound fight for Maia.


----------



## Canadian Psycho

Ed Herman. 

Two TUFers in serious need of a win. Assuming poor old Ed didn't pull a Cote, tonight. And if he did... Leben vs. Cote works just fine! That one could be fun. I tend to think Chris is a good guy, but I can see him becoming irrelevant. Which goes to show how much the UFC has changed in just a few, short years. It wasn't long ago that Leben was considered a top MW prospect.


----------



## coldcall420

Hellboy said:


> He'd be a good rebound fight for Maia.


 
I thought bout that but I think he would lose that would be 3 in a row, I think Dana will be more selective.....


CC420



Canadian Psycho said:


> Ed Herman.
> 
> Two TUFers in serious need of a win. Assuming poor old Ed didn't pull a Cote, tonight. And if he did... Leben vs. Cote works just fine! That one could be fun. I tend to think Chris is a good guy, but I can see him becoming irrelevant. Which goes to show how much the UFC has changed in just a few, short years. It wasn't long ago that Leben was considered a top MW prospect.


 
Great call......:thumbsup:


----------



## Snappy

Canadian Psycho said:


> Ed Herman.
> 
> Two TUFers in serious need of a win. Assuming poor old Ed didn't pull a Cote, tonight. And if he did... Leben vs. Cote works just fine! That one could be fun. I tend to think Chris is a good guy, but I can see him becoming irrelevant. Which goes to show how much the UFC has changed in just a few, short years. It wasn't long ago that Leben was considered a top MW prospect.


He definitely doesn't have many opportunities left, though I personally like the guy. I think he could play the best role in helping younger guys "get over" and if he beats them, he still looks good and the UFC can weed out some of those who shouldn't be given a chance.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

Working at a dock, hopefully.


----------



## Guy

Hopefully a far away place that's nowhere near the Octagon.


----------



## taz1458

I think its funny that Leben got beat. I personally think the guy talks way too much because he rarely backs it up.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

Hellboy said:


> He'd be a good rebound fight for Maia.


Lol if Maia doesn't leave his hands down when throwing a kick or else it'll be the same result with Marquardt.

But yeah, Leben would be a good choice for the sacrificial lamb against Maia. Yet another fighter with an average ground game for Maia to tool.


----------



## footodors

Dancing with the Stars!


----------



## DahStoryTella

hopefully undercard fights for the rest of his UFC career, but that's too good to be true.

ummm, probably some dude with a drew mcfedries status


----------



## BrianRClover

Strikeforce I hope! Alright Jdunn you win, what's up?


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Personally, I don't care what happens to him. I can't stand the little prick. Going on about "I've changed, I'm more mature, I've grown up! I stopped drinking!" Then failing his test for steriods is absolutely pathetic and makes him a complete hypocritical waste.


----------



## Tomislav III

coldcall420 said:


> Whats next for Chris? I mean two losses and perhaps a rematch would be great with bisping if he wasnt already fighting. Who do you guys think he should fight????
> 
> CC420


He needs to start cycling again...


----------



## Charles Lee Ray

Kendall Grove, James Irvin, Alan Belcher, W. Silva, Tom Lawlor, Winner or loser of McFredies/Drwal are just some possible future opponents for him. There are a lot of guy's in that MW that would have a good fight with Leben.


Leben is still a solid mid level fighter who always has entertaining fights. It would be a big mistake to release him. I doubt the UFC will though.


----------



## xeberus

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Working at a dock, hopefully.


Dude, that's just mean.


----------



## DropKicker

BrianRClover said:


> Strikeforce I hope! Alright Jdunn you win, what's up?


U mean Strikefarce..


----------



## georgie17891

**** I love leben and I was shocked by his performance threw like 4 punches at the end of the round


----------



## TERMINATOR

I would say Leben needs to do some serious training. All he looks for is the looping left. He needs to become a more all around fighter.


----------



## Vale_Tudo

coldcall420 said:


> Whats next for Chris?


Unemployment


----------



## Binkie65

footodors said:


> Dancing with the Stars!


raise01:


----------



## pt447

Leben has one of two problems, I'm not sure which one. Either he is trying to be too technical and forgetting why he was successful before by being more wild and unconventional, or he's just not that good. 

I prefer to think it is the former because I sort of root for him. Although it is a pity root. 

At least he's getting himself some really nice tattoos!:thumbsup:


----------



## Finnsidious

Just get rid of him already. 

The only reason he lasted this long was due to the UFC's habit of desperately sucking every molecule of marketing possible out of the TUF fighters. He's a mediocre fighter in every respect, and he needed steroids to even achieve mediocrity. I'd say he got exposed last night, except that to be exposed you have to have people think you were good in the first place. 

It pisses me off that crap like that fight takes up a main card slot, stop wasting our time with this guy.


----------



## Charles Lee Ray

People are seriously underestimating Leben here. He is a solid fighter with several good wins in the UFC.


He has wins over Patrick Cote, Alessio Sakara, Jorge Rivera, Jorge Santiago, Terry Martin, Edwin DeWees and Luigi Fiurovanti. He also has a win over Mike Swick in the WEC. His overall UFC record is 8-5 which is not bad. A lot of people with worse records are still around and get credit.


----------



## kc1983

I think he's walking on pretty thin ice right now. I could see him getting set up with Ed Herman for a "both guys have their backs against the wall" fight.


----------



## BrianRClover

kc1983 said:


> I think he's walking on pretty thin ice right now. I could see him getting set up with Ed Herman for a "both guys have their backs against the wall" fight.


Good idea but not going to happen, he and Ed are very good friends... Chris is actually the guy who gave him the "Short Fuse" nickname.

I'm not sure what was going on with Chris last night, he not only lost but looked bad doing it. When he lost to Kalib Starnes they actually got fight of the night, when he last to MacDonald he was winning that fight up to the submission.

But last night he just seemed slow... and all most like he didn't care. As a big fan I was shocked, Rosholt was nothing impressive either... good submission sure, but the way Leben was fighting he should have put that on him in the first round.


----------



## Jamal

He will probably show up on some Fight Night cards, or maybe Strikeforce like most have said


----------



## xbrokenshieldx

To me Leben is in a similar boat as Jardine. Usually fights really tough guys (obviously not as tough as Jardine does) and always puts on a hell of a show... He, like Jardine, seems like a good gate keeper. And with how weak the MW division is in the UFC, I don't really think they can afford to axe him just yet. He will probably fight on the main card of an upcoming UFN against someone who will most likely be a brawler...

It seems like Herman will be out for a while and I'm not sure Dana will sacrifice Leben for Maia.. We have seen that Leben has some weaknesses on the ground, Maia would bend him in all sorts of directions..


----------



## coldcall420

Tomislav III said:


> He needs to start cycling again...


 
LOL.....seems like it did help, but people will certainly disagree, claiming the type of roid he took against bisping wouldnt have benefitted him?????:confused02: I just read it in response to a comment i made about him juicing....



Charles Lee Ray said:


> *Kendall Grove, James Irvin, Alan Belcher, W. Silva, Tom Lawlor*, Winner or loser of McFredies/Drwal are just some possible future opponents for him. There are a lot of guy's in that MW that would have a good fight with Leben.
> 
> 
> Leben is still a solid mid level fighter who always has entertaining fights. It would be a big mistake to release him. I doubt the UFC will though.


 
All those dude are on thei way out the door, so your right they would be good fights.........



TERMINATOR said:


> I would say Leben needs to do some serious training. All he looks for is the looping left. He needs to become a more all around fighter.


Absoloutely.......:thumbsup: He lacks fundamentals and certainly discipline.....



Finnsidious said:


> Just get rid of him already.
> 
> The only reason he lasted this long was due to the UFC's habit of desperately sucking every molecule of marketing possible out of the TUF fighters. He's a mediocre fighter in every respect, and he needed steroids to even achieve mediocrity. I'd say he got exposed last night, except that to be exposed you have to have people think you were good in the first place.
> 
> It pisses me off that crap like that fight takes up a main card slot, stop wasting our time with this guy.


There is some truth to this post, as the UFC needs these fighters tha the casual fan recognizes from T.V. as opposed to someone that has only been exposes on PPV to the casual fan like Shogun, or even Brock.....all his fights you have had to pay to watch.....



Charles Lee Ray said:


> People are seriously underestimating Leben here. He is a solid fighter with several good wins in the UFC.
> 
> 
> He has wins over *Patrick Cote*, Alessio Sakara, Jorge Rivera, Jorge Santiago, Terry Martin, Edwin DeWees and Luigi Fiurovanti. He also has a win over *Mike Swick* in the WEC. His overall UFC record is 8-5 which is not bad. A lot of people with worse records are still around and get credit.


I highlighted the 2 with any serious ablity to allow Leben to brag and Swick was ages ago he has gotten way better and DEF so has Cote'.......

Leben needs to re-evaluate and re-dedicate himself to this sport or its going to continue this way.........regardless of where he goes....

CC420


----------



## coldcall420

*The Calm Before The Storm – Machida, Rua Meet The Press in LA*



> On October 24th, UFC light heavyweight champion Lyoto Machida and challanger Mauricio “Shogun” Rua will be anything but friendly as they battle tooth and nail in the Octagon at Los Angeles’ STAPLES Center. But as they made their way to Tuesday’s UFC 104 press conference in the City of Angels, they were just a couple of old buddies who wound up sitting next to each other on the flight from Brazil.
> 
> “Lyoto is a nice guy and we’ve known each other for a while,” said Rua through translator / manager Eduardo Alonso at Nokia Plaza in LA. “Even though we are friends, I got very surprised to see him on the plane and actually sitting next to me for the whole flight from Brazil to here. It was a funny situation, but we’re both professionals, we’re training very hard and we both want the same goal, so we’re gonna do our best.”
> 
> Machida also smiled when recalling his travel companion. “We are great friends, no problems.”
> 
> October 24th may be a different story though, as two of the 205-pound division’s finest collide in a diehard fight fan’s dream fight. In one corner, it’s the technically brilliant Machida, a cool assassin who has yet to taste defeat in mixed martial arts. In the other, it’s the more visceral Rua, the former PRIDE star who finally looks to be back in form after two knee surgeries. It’s an intriguing clash of styles to say the least, and the possibility of a war to remember is definitely in the cards once the bell rings.
> 
> “Lyoto is a standup fighter,” said Rua. “I’m a standup fighter myself, but he comes from karate and is a very good counterstriker; he fights in a very efficient style. I’m a Muay Thai fighter and I fight much more in a pressing style by being aggressive. I think this is a big motivation for me, to show and prove that Muay Thai can be very efficient against his style.”
> 
> “My style is karate,” said Machida, who was schooled in the art by his father, Yoshizo. “My personal style is counterstriking. Shogun is a very aggressive fighter with good knees, good punching, but I’ll try to push him into my style.”
> 
> That’s been Machida’s M.O. since coming to the UFC, where he has taken down the likes of Sokoudjou, Tito Ortiz, and Thiago Silva, before blasting his way to the light heavyweight title with his knockout of Rashad Evans in May. “Karate is back,” yelled Machida after his title-winning effort, and his style, temperament, and dominance has garnered him no small amount of praise – and not just from fans, but from his fellow fighters.
> 
> “He’s starting to break the lines between being a fighter and being a mixed martial artist, and to me that’s very important,” said heavyweight Ben Rothwell, in town to promote his UFC 104 co-main event against Cain Velasquez. “He’s starting to show the world that this is a competition. This is the UFC and these are the best professional athletes in the world.”
> 
> To get ready for the task of figuring out Belem’s Machida, Rua will train close to home in Curitiba, a switch from the training camp in Sao Paulo he used for his knockout win over Chuck Liddell in April.
> 
> “Each fight is a different story,” said Rua. “To fight Chuck Liddell I believed I needed to emphasize boxing, and Sao Paulo has the best boxing in Brazil, so I went there to train and to prepare. For this fight against Lyoto I think I need different aspects of training, so me and my team talked about it and we decided to stay in Curitiba for this fight. My team is my team, but I’ll go wherever is best for my strategy and my opponent, and I’ll bring my team with me.”
> 
> As for the champion, he’s not about to rest on his laurels. Instead, he approaches the fight with the hunger of a challenger.
> 
> “I keep training a lot for the night of the fight,” said Machida. “This is my first title defense and I hope I’ll win. My opponent is tough, a great person, very good on the ground and (in his) striking, but I know one thing – I’ll keep doing my homework.”


 

Cant wait for this fight!!!

CC420:thumb02:


----------



## rabakill

Fighter X: I'm going to come at him aggressively, like no one has before. I'm going to knock him out.

Machida: He will come at me aggressively with strikes and I will counter attack with karate. 

Does nobody see a trend? every single fighter he faces comes with the same retarded running straight at him strategy.


----------



## coldcall420

Thats why he said Thiago cannot beat me, also why he said Rashad cannot compete with his style, and ultimately this will be what does RUA in but RUA will be more careful, meaning he wont come in wildly....

CC420:thumbsup:


----------



## rabakill

"I’m a standup fighter myself, but he comes from karate and is a very good counterstriker; he fights in a very efficient style. I’m a Muay Thai fighter and I fight much more in a pressing style by being aggressive. I think this is a big motivation for me, to show and prove that Muay Thai can be very efficient against his style."

I think he's going to run at him trying to get a clinch and get knocked out in the process


----------



## Bob Pataki

Machida's striking is on another level, his reaction times are ridiculous. If Shogun thinks his Muay Thai is going to get the better of Machida then he's going to be in for a rough night.


----------



## joshua7789

I think he is going to kick the hell out of lyoto's legs for the first couple of rounds to try and slow him down. We shall see, go shogun!


----------



## rabakill

joshua7789 said:


> I think he is going to kick the hell out of lyoto's legs for the first couple of rounds to try and slow him down. We shall see, go shogun!




we shall see


----------



## joshua7789

rabakill said:


> we shall see



Not a great comparison, rashads stand up vs shoguns stand up. Shogun is more then a few notches better then rashad in that aspect.


----------



## rabakill

joshua7789 said:


> Not a great comparison, rashads stand up vs shoguns stand up. Shogun is more then a few notches better then rashad in that aspect.


In what? Speed? Reaction time? Ko power? Accuracy?


----------



## coldcall420

joshua7789 said:


> Not a great comparison, rashads stand up vs shoguns stand up. Shogun is more then a few notches better then rashad in that aspect.


 

Thats not true....Rashad K/O'd Chuck......Oh wait isnt that Shoguns clain to fame and reason for being in this fight....????

Not having the ability to recognize that Rashad is a phenominal fighter and has mad power makes me question what your looking at....Rashad has K/O'd heavyweights....

Believe me I have bet againstt Rashad in every one of his fights so I am not a huge fan, however D.P. and Davisty are making me see the light.......


Lyoto doesnt have leg kicks.....:confused05: The thing is when RUA throws his Lyoto wont be there to get hit.....

CC420:thumbsup:


----------



## joshua7789

Go watch shoguns fights in pride if you havent seen them. Rashad has only shown decent stand up in one of his fights. Actually, he was getting outboxed by forrest and chuck before he caught them both. Not to take anything away from those wins, props to the guy for having power in his hands. Shogun has better hands as far as being technically sound goes. Rashad drops his hands way to much and is always looking for one big shot instead of trying to pick people apart. Shogun is also much quicker and more accurate with his kicks.

Also, shogun is about tweenty times more diverse then rashad when it comes to his arsenal of strikes.


----------



## The505Butcher

joshua7789 said:


> Not a great comparison, rashads stand up vs shoguns stand up. Shogun is more then a few notches better then rashad in that aspect.


in Leg kicks? maybe you are right there... though i would put rashad's stand up up there with rua's


----------



## coldcall420

joshua7789 said:


> Go watch shoguns fights in pride if you havent seen them. Rashad has only shown decent stand up in one of his fights. Actually, he was getting outboxed by forrest and chuck before he caught them both. Not to take anything away from those wins, props to the guy for having power in his hands. Shogun has better hands as far as being technically sound goes. Rashad drops his hands way to much and is always looking for one big shot instead of trying to pick people apart. Shogun is also much quicker and more accurate with his kicks.
> 
> Also, shogun is about tweenty times more diverse then rashad when it comes to his arsenal of strikes.


 
I have seen Shoguns fights.....In what manor are is his striking more diverse??? Not saying your wrong just elaborate.....

CC420


----------



## joshua7789

He has good knees, good kicks from both legs, power in both hands, strikes from different angles. He doesnt just come forward looking for one big punch. If he cant land a strong hook then he will probably be able to catch you with something else.


----------



## coldcall420

joshua7789 said:


> He has good knees, good kicks from both legs, power in both hands, strikes from different angles. He doesnt just come forward looking for one big punch. If he cant land a strong hook then he will probably be able to catch you with something else.


 
I am not trying to argue with you and AGAIN, dude Im no rashad guru, but buddy has great head kicks and mad power in them, his leg kicks are powerful as well and on top of that he has mad head movement and shoulder movement to draw his opponents in to his reach where he then does what he has done well until he met The Dragon.....

Its true......


CC420


----------



## M.C

Machida is going to wreck Shogun's shit via better timing, better speed, better accuracy, better striking, a solid ground game and solid wrestling.

There's not much more you can say.


----------



## Freiermuth

Shogun said in a previous interview he knew he needed to be patient vs Lyoto. If he is, he stand a chance at winning but I agree if he rushes in throwing hands, he will take a beating. I'm picking Shogun in this (I'm a fan of his) so hopefully he does take it slow, feel out the stand-up and if he has no luck there, try to take it to the ground where I believe he has an advantage.


----------



## jennathebenda

I can not see Rua taking this one. Lyoto will pick him apart, and win the fight.


----------



## DropKicker

hea hea hea... here we go again..another Machida Vs Shogun thread... and on comparing Rashad to Shogun?... Ha! Rashad is so one dementional..he got no submission game what so ever...just your the typical wrestler turned mma fighter that thinks he can strike.. It's funny people think he got head kicks because he KOed a garbage ass Sean Salmon..lol.. so the real question is.. is Rashad really a good striker? as far as I'm concerned he has quick head & body movements in his stance & defense when striking. But accurate effective striking? NODDA!!!! So he likes to show boat throwing around a lot of faints before actually engaging. Yes it's obvious he has quick hands. But than again the question is, are his striking abilities consistent & accurate? No Rashad is the type of striker that will throw 100 punches & only one lands flush. Like someone was mentioning earlier, he was getting picked apart by both Forrest & Chuck until that one hit wonder he pulled out the arse... I'll give rashad credit for his wrestling & athletic abilities. But he is years behind Shogun in actually being an elite striker that can hit consistently. Again I've said it before & I'll say it again to all these Machida fanboys.. Machida is at the top of the food chain right now at 205 but don't be so quick to count Shogun out. He's another whole different animal. If Rashad was thought to be that of a lion...Shogun's a griffin....


----------



## coldcall420

DropKicker said:


> hea hea hea... here we go again..another Machida Vs Shogun thread... and on comparing Rashad to Shogun?... Ha! Rashad is so one dementional..he got no submission game what so ever...just your the typical wrestler turned mma fighter that thinks he can strike.. It's funny people think he got head kicks because he KOed a garbage ass Sean Salmon..lol.. so the real question is.. is Rashad really a good striker? as far as I'm concerned he has quick head & body movements in his stance & defense when striking. But accurate effective striking? NODDA!!!! So he likes to show boat* throwing around a lot of faints* before actually engaging. Yes it's obvious he has quick hands. But than again the question is, are his striking abilities consistent & accurate? No Rashad is the type of striker that will throw 100 punches & only one lands flush. Like someone was mentioning earlier, he was getting picked apart by both Forrest & Chuck until that one hit wonder he pulled out the arse... I'll give rashad credit for his wrestling & athletic abilities. But he is years behind Shogun in actually being an elite striker that can hit consistently. Again I've said it before & I'll say it again to all these Machida fanboys.. Machida is at the top of the food chain right now at 205 but don't be so quick to count Shogun out. He's another whole different animal. If Rashad was thought to be that of a lion...Shogun's a griffin....


 
All I wanna know is how you throw around a faint????:confused02:



I personally, since you've said this so many times, would like to ask you if you would care to wager say 15k straight up on this particular fight????


I'll patiently wait while you answer.......not gonna breakdown your breakdown of Rashad as Im sure there will be someone else that can do that.......

CC420

*patiently waits to see if has money where fingers are typing*


----------



## DropKicker

CC420, 

How many times do I have to tell you this... why would I bet against Machida when personally even I got him to at least a 2 to 1 favor... What you need to understand is that your analysis of Rashad having good head kicks is not warranted based on the Sean Salmon theory. Anyone in their right mind would laugh at you.  And the reason you won't break down what I've just said of Rashad is because you too know it's true. Let's just wait til fight day. They say a true champ has to defend his belt at leats once. And when Machida can do that i'll accpet your "i told so" attitude. In the mean time pray & hope to all your karate nut hugging gods that Machida doesn't get upsetted because your quick dismissal of such a great fighter like Shogun will again get laughed at for your lack of knowledge in this fight game.


----------



## jcal

Well whatever happens, well see. This fight im really looking forward too. I dont think shoguns gonna win but I think hell give him a good fight. I think Shoguns camps smart enough to look at the tapes and see that pulling a ChuteBox style is the worst strategy to fight Machida with. I think because hes primarily a Muay Thai player that if he got a win even by submission he would say its the Muaythai and the same for Machida with his Karate of course. At this point its exciting just to see if some camp can figure Lyoto out, cause its gonna happen someday,it does to everybody.


----------



## Sekou

joshua7789 said:


> Not a great comparison, rashads stand up vs shoguns stand up. Shogun is more then a few notches better then rashad in that aspect.


say what?? LOL

*Shogun's has some technical kicks, but as far as stand up boxing...nah, homie, Rashad takes it in that aspect. Rashad manages to pick apart and close the distance on EVERY FIGHTER, AND HE'S 5'11. Ask your boy Forrest...even he mentioned it. Machida happened to be faster and take the fight around the perimeter.*


----------



## The505Butcher

DropKicker said:


> hea hea hea... here we go again..another Machida Vs Shogun thread... and on comparing Rashad to Shogun?... Ha! Rashad is so one dementional..he got no submission game what so ever...just your the typical wrestler turned mma fighter that thinks he can strike.. It's funny people think he got head kicks because he KOed a garbage ass Sean Salmon..lol.. so the real question is.. is Rashad really a good striker? as far as I'm concerned he has quick head & body movements in his stance & defense when striking. But accurate effective striking? NODDA!!!! So he likes to show boat throwing around a lot of faints before actually engaging. Yes it's obvious he has quick hands. But than again the question is, are his striking abilities consistent & accurate? No Rashad is the type of striker that will throw 100 punches & only one lands flush. Like someone was mentioning earlier, he was getting picked apart by both Forrest & Chuck until that one hit wonder he pulled out the arse... I'll give rashad credit for his wrestling & athletic abilities.


I'll do it for CC! (though i am sure he can do it much better...)

Rashad is training under Greg jackson for his MMA training, who teaches guido jitsu (sp?) and is a submission wrestler. He does have a submission game but has so far not used it for some reason or another. Thinks he can strike? he KO'd chuck liddel? i guess in your book thats not an accomplishment. Rashad uses a lot of boxing but he trains under Mike Winkeljohn (hahaha still can not stop laughing at this name though i would never do it to his face.) who is a world champion KICKBOXER for his striking training. He uses those quick body and head movements to not leave himself open for strikes, and it confuses his opponent. He times his strikes and throws them very well if you knew anything about boxing you would know this. Chuck Liddel was one of the best strikers the UFC has ever seen up until a couple fights ago and Forrest was picking apart Rashad? Do i really need to respond to this? that was a good fight and Evans had to work against someone who is 6'3 and he is 5'11. and forrest threw a lot of leg kicks, that did not slow Evans down. 

Rashad is one of the better strikers in there but he is a different striker than the brawling moving forward style that was a lot of the people he faught up until then. He got worked by Machida so far standing up and is that really a mark against him?


----------



## coldcall420

The505Butcher said:


> I'll do it for CC! (though i am sure he can do it much better...)
> 
> Rashad is training under Greg jackson for his MMA training, who teaches guido jitsu (sp?) and is a submission wrestler. He does have a submission game but has so far not used it for some reason or another. Thinks he can strike? he KO'd chuck liddel? i guess in your book thats not an accomplishment. Rashad uses a lot of boxing but he trains under Mike Winkeljohn (hahaha still can not stop laughing at this name though i would never do it to his face.) who is a world champion KICKBOXER for his striking training. He uses those quick body and head movements to not leave himself open for strikes, and it confuses his opponent. He times his strikes and throws them very well if you knew anything about boxing you would know this. Chuck Liddel was one of the best strikers the UFC has ever seen up until a couple fights ago and Forrest was picking apart Rashad? Do i really need to respond to this? that was a good fight and Evans had to work against someone who is 6'3 and he is 5'11. and forrest threw a lot of leg kicks, that did not slow Evans down.
> 
> Rashad is one of the better strikers in there but he is a different striker than the brawling moving forward style that was a lot of the people he faught up until then. He got worked by Machida so far standing up and is that really a mark against him?


 
Thank you sir......some people dont understand the concept of movement and slowly chopping down the tree......:thumbsup:


Dropkicker, you mention one head kick and act like he got lucky, and his K/O of Chuck was just lucky, reality is Rashad has the ground game as 505 did such an excellent job describing for you....

I explained some what the head movements and such in my other post but Im wondering if you read the whole thing.....

Frankly, I never liked Rashad.......Davisty and Spoken would shit themselves and D.P. for that matter if they saw how much praise I was giving him, but you must understand.....This is a man I have rooted against since I 1st saw him and he ALWAYS wins......no one will beat Machida anytime soon so the fact that Rashad could not wont matter when Machida beats Shogun........

TAKE THE BET

CC420

Again you dont take the action but only post pro Shogun????? I'lll still give you the 15k to your 9500 or whatever credits......


----------



## Nikkolai

I'm getting confused now. I'm not sure it's going to be a good fight or a boring one. I'm pretty sure Shogun knows he can't be all aggressive ala Chute Box style. He even stated that he's going to have to be patient. The way he fought against Coleman and the way he fought Liddell was different. He was a lot more controlled against Chuck and it seemed like he had better defense. 

Either way, I can't wait for the fight. I like them both so it's tough to root for one over the other.


----------



## coldcall420

Nikkolai said:


> I'm getting confused now. I'm not sure it's going to be a good fight or a boring one. I'm pretty sure Shogun knows he can't be all aggressive ala Chute Box style. He even stated that he's going to have to be patient. The way he fought against Coleman and the way he fought Liddell was different. He was a lot more controlled against Chuck and it seemed like he had better defense.
> 
> Either way, I can't wait for the fight. I like them both so it's tough to root for one over the other.


 
If you know what your watching and looking at.....It wont be boring.....:thumbsup:

CC420


----------



## Seperator88

yea one thing i would bet lotsa dineiro on is that the first 30 second to a minute will be circling eachother maybe a few pawing jabs or kicks and then the crowd will boo them, at this time wanderlei distracts the ref momentarily and another member of chute box reaches over the cage and grabs machida and holds him, then shogun pounds away while the ref isn't looking, by the time the ref turns back around machida is starting to slump in the corner with shogun pounding him forcing a tko stoppage. Then a. silva runs out from backstage and grabs a steal chair and jumps into the octagon.... man could you imagine if UFC was like WWE


----------



## coldcall420

Seperator88 said:


> yea one thing i would bet lotsa dineiro on is that the first 30 second to a minute will be circling eachother maybe a few pawing jabs or kicks and then the crowd will boo them, at this time wanderlei distracts the ref momentarily and another member of chute box reaches over the cage and grabs machida and holds him, then shogun pounds away while the ref isn't looking, by the time the ref turns back around machida is starting to slump in the corner with shogun pounding him forcing a tko stoppage. Then a. silva runs out from backstage and grabs a steal chair and jumps into the octagon.... man could you imagine if UFC was like WWE


 

I was laughin my balls off all the way till you said steel chair and WWE......


Not bad though...

CC420


----------



## Nikkolai

coldcall420 said:


> If you know what your watching and looking at.....It wont be boring.....:thumbsup:
> 
> CC420


Oh, that's right :thumb02:. I guess I was looking forward to seeing a KO or TKO but hey, I'm happy to see a chess match also; although some fans won't be.


----------



## coldcall420

Nikkolai said:


> Oh, that's right :thumb02:. I guess I was looking forward to seeing a KO or TKO but hey, I'm happy to see a chess match also; although some fans won't be.


 
I think you'll see both.....:thumbsup:

CC420


----------



## SpoKen

This fight is without a doubt one of the most exciting fights for me (bar Rashad vs. Rampage).

It's going to be interesting to see if Shogun will be aggresive or passive. Shogun is at his best when he's aggresive, but that's where Machida's strength is. Machida can find openings that no one knew existed, but Shogun has insane angles and flashes jabs to start a thai clinch.

Shogun has a good chin but it will get tested... and he'll probably get T/KO'd.


----------



## alizio

Rashad moves like a panther, dude is unreal, he has great hands and is a smart fighter, he uses distance very well, to say his standup is many notches below anybody at LHW is a joke to me.

Machida and Silva are probably the 2 best in the game atm at using distance to control fights, you definately need to counter his counters to win, he is just to good at making you go where he wants, and putting you in spots where you cant get off power shots, but he can.

Honestly, it's almost worth the risk to run in Randy vs Chuck 1 style and go for a crazy TD, i mean you could get KO'd trying, but in all likelyhood you will get KO'd if you dont try, i see too many ppl, Rashad included, have some sort of legkick and TD type gameplan and then quickly abandon it when those crazy body kicks Machida throws land a couple times. 

Machida and Silva both seem to thrive after a feel out process, they get your timing and distance down, then it's goodnight, i much rather get KO'd going in like gangbusters for a TD or a big bomb, then get picked apart and embarrassed over a round or 2.


----------



## jcal

alizio said:


> Rashad moves like a panther, dude is unreal, he has great hands and is a smart fighter, he uses distance very well, to say his standup is many notches below anybody at LHW is a joke to me.
> 
> Machida and Silva are probably the 2 best in the game atm at using distance to control fights, you definately need to counter his counters to win, he is just to good at making you go where he wants, and putting you in spots where you cant get off power shots, but he can.
> 
> Honestly, it's almost worth the risk to run in Randy vs Chuck 1 style and go for a crazy TD, i mean you could get KO'd trying, but in all likelyhood you will get KO'd if you dont try, i see too many ppl, Rashad included, have some sort of legkick and TD type gameplan and then quickly abandon it when those crazy body kicks Machida throws land a couple times.
> 
> Machida and Silva both seem to thrive after a feel out process, they get your timing and distance down, then it's goodnight, i much rather get KO'd going in like gangbusters for a TD or a big bomb, then get picked apart and embarrassed over a round or 2.


No doubt, I cant see Rua bieng so outclassed that its gonna be an embarrassment to him. Hes the best Machida has ever faced so far. Hoping for a great fight, think it will be but see Rua coming up short but I hope not, ive been a Rua fan too long to want Machida to win. But I give him pure respect, seems like a cool guy.


----------



## coldcall420

*New ‘Nightmare:’ Diego Sanchez signs eight-fight UFC contract*

http://mmamania.com/2009/09/09/new-nightmare-diego-sanchez-signs-eight-fight-ufc-contract/

YES! YES! YES!



> "Diego Sanchez, former welterweight contender and middleweight winner on the inaugural season of The Ultimate Fighter (TUF), has signed a multi-fight UFC contract that will keep him inside the Octagon for at least another eight fights.
> “Nightmare” made a name for himself by pounding out Kenny Florian at the April 2005 TUF Finale before winning his next five fights — including a victory over Karo Parisyan at Fight Night 6 that was considered one of the best fights of the year.
> The Albuquerque native experienced defeat for the first time in his career when he dropped back-to-back decisions to former TUF rival Josh Koscheck and fellow American Kickboxing Academy (AKA) standout Jon Fitch.
> While Sanchez rebounded by winning his next two fights in impressive fashion, he recognized a size disadvantage and opted to drop down to 155-pounds to give himself a better chance of fulfilling his dream of winning a UFC title.
> Sanchez got one step closer to that goal in his lightweight debut by stifling Joe Stevenson in the main event of UFC 95 and then by dazzling fans with a sensational three round war against Clay “The Carpenter” Guida at last June’s TUF 9 Finale.
> Current division champ BJ Penn dispatched “KenFlo” at UFC 101, effectively clearing the way for Sanchez to compete against “The Prodigy” in his first ever title fight on at UFC 107 on December 12.
> And if by chance he is unsuccessful, he’ll have another eight fights to work his way back into title contention."


 
Im pumped for Diego I hope he wins but I doubt it....BJ is my fav 155er and then Diego was my fav 170....when he dropped to 155 I was like DAM....


I would say I expect BJ to win, but would love if Diego did.....the torch will have been passed....the kid is 23-2 well deserving of a title shot.....

CC420


----------



## flourhead

either way nice to see he'll be around a few more years. always puts on great fights


----------



## palmerboy

I think BJ and Diego has great potential to be a real fight for the fan. I still think BJ is going to win but not until the late rounds. After that i only hope Diego doesnt turn into one of those fighters who can beat everyone in the division except the champion.


----------



## The505Butcher

Can not wait for Diego to fight more! He is my favorite LW hjust in front of Penn. I really like both pretty much equally though and now i have a hard time picking the winner.


----------



## box

You can't help but love what Diego brings to the UFC. He's completely into what he does, over the top or not. Who would have thought someone could come in and fight with more energy and work harder than Clay Guida, and he made Guida look calm (not easy to do). I can't say I want him to beat BJ, but I want him to do well.


----------



## amoosenamedhank

I personally don't care for Penn so my vote is for Sanchez. I think he deserves to wear the belt.


----------



## coldcall420

*Frank Mir Says He Can't Compete With Brock Lesnar At 245lbs*

http://www.mmanews.com/ufc/Frank-Mir-Says-He-Cant-Compete-With-Brock-Lesnar-At-245lbs.html

I think Mir is humble and brings some good points in this interview......

No excuses from Frank.....:thumbsup:

CC420


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

He's already beaten him so obviously he can compete.


----------



## shatterproof

He beat him before Lesnar had a gameplan, which he was able to execute well in their second fight. Mir is right, 245 without a cut is too small -- he needs to put on a solid 20 LBs of muscle in the right places. HW is getting bigger and bigger, stronger and stronger, and Mir has always been on the small side of the division.

Always a good listen when Mir gives an interview. No excuses, and well spoken about his flaws and strengths. Here's to Mir taking the rubber match.


----------



## VolcomX311

Alex_DeLarge said:


> He's already beaten him so obviously he can compete.


The can should be could, past tense. Experience was the key variable to their first fight, as oppose to ability. I believe Mir could still compete with Brock, but not based on the outcome of their first fight. Brock was too, too green then. 

Mir "could" always catch Brock in some kind of submission, he has the strength and know-how, but the probability of Mir falling into a newb-debuting fighter's blind spot again, has drastically diminished.

P.S. A Clockwork Orange is a classic!


----------



## AceofSpades187

Good news for me as a deigo fan i kno i can watch him fight 8 more wars in the ufc. however i still think bj penn will win


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

Okay so he was a noob back then. But since that fight he had only two fights after that. C'mon now, can we really pull the "experience" factor here when he fought Mir for the second time with only a 3-1 record?


----------



## Stratisfear

shatterproof said:


> Mir has always been on the small side of the division.


I'd say Mir is about in the middle with fighters like Couture, Fedor, Cro Cop, etc on the small side.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

shatterproof said:


> Mir has always been on the small side of the division.


Post-accident?


----------



## shatterproof

Stratisfear said:


> I'd say Mir is about in the middle with fighters like Couture, Fedor, Cro Cop, etc on the small side.


I was speaking to stature more than weight but; Obviously Randy -- a guy who has made a habit of fighting at LHW -- isnt a very big HW either. Fedor isn't in the UFC HW division but he's a freak of nature. Mirko is only a HW because of his legs, hah.

All three of those guys are fairly small for HW too, but Mir is much smaller than still the majority of the division. Carwin, Dos Santos, Gonzaga, Hardonk, Herring, Kongo, etc. 

That said, even being middle of the class in a class with such a rediculously huge range in size is a major disadvantage and that is exactly what Mir is getting at. take up your argument with him. :thumbsup:


----------



## yourtenderloins

Sicilian_Esq said:


> Post-accident?


No ever since Lesnar came in.


----------



## Alex_DeLarge

There have been fighters that weigh in at the max heavyweight weight limit before.


----------



## VolcomX311

Alex_DeLarge said:


> There have been fighters that weigh in at the max heavyweight weight limit before.


and they're slow, posses no real agility, conditioning or explosiveness, just big & heavy. The difference is Brock is a giant WITH all the athletic abilities.

I believe Bob Sapp and Hong Man Choi are bigger & heavier then Brock, but Sapp and Choi are too slow, Brock is nothing like them.


----------



## Negative1

Mir could do a better job against Lesnar if he came in with a dynamic game plan. Keep your distance from that gorilla and out point him all night. May be the making for a boring fight but it's still a competition. :thumbsup:


----------



## VolcomX311

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Okay so he was a noob back then. But since that fight he had only two fights after that. C'mon now, can we really pull the "experience" factor here when he fought Mir for the second time with only a 3-1 record?


Yes. The difference from your debut fight is much different then your second or your third fight. It's nerves that blind and bind your abilities in a debut situation. Brock's actual talent may not have improved much at all from Mir I to Mir II, it's his mental clarity and not operating under an over-stimulated sympathetic nervous system that made the difference. 

Also, he went into Mir I not certain what exactly to expect and what exactly his own weaknesses would be. Afterward, he had a year to work on his weakness and to understand his opponents strength, big effing difference.


----------



## name goes here

I think Mir has a point.


----------



## The505Butcher

Really do like Mir's interviews. The guy is straight forward and pretty honest most of the time and he sounds like he really knows his stuff. I agree that the real factor in his last fight was he just did not have the muscle to do that much against Lesnar. Hope he can put it on properly.


----------



## G0K0S

It's going to be really hard for anyone to regain the advantage when Brock gets on top of you. At ufc 100, there was zero chance that Mir was going to be able to get back to his feet unless Brock let him. He's too big, too strong, and too good of a wrestler. I think the only way brock is going to lose any time soon is if he gets KO'd standing up in the beginning of a round. Sure, anyone can be caught in a submission, but I wouldn't count on it.


----------



## coldcall420

*Clay Guida Heads To Team Greg Jackson To Train For Next Fight*

_http://www.mmanews.com/ufc/Clay-Guida-Heads-To-Team-Greg-Jackson-To-Train-For-Next-Fight.html_



_



"While on "Inside MMA," Clay Guida announced that he will train at Greg Jackson's to prepare for his upcoming fight with Kenny Florian at UFC 107. Guida is the latest fighter to jump to Jackson's to upgrade his game where he will train with the likes of Georges St. Pierre,

Click to expand...

_


> _Nate Marquardt__, Donald Cerrone, Leonard Garcia and Rashad Evans. _
> _This move makes sense especially in light of Guida's last fight. In the loss to __Diego Sanchez__, Guida showed that toughness and wrestling -- the best parts of his game -- could help him last through a fight, but not always win it. At Jackson's, Guida will continually face top-level fighters who will get him ready for Florian's highly technical game."_


 


I think this is a great idea the dude has all the heart in the world he just needs some one that can show him how to capitalize on his skill set....Greg Jackson has proven he can do that with all fighters....


CC420


----------



## T.Bone

Even before I heard this I thought Guida would beat Kenny. This just fuels the fire.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

Guida should have done this before his fight w/ Diego. Better late than never.


----------



## vandalian

Smart. Guida has a lot of strengths, but there are definitely some areas he needs to round out.


----------



## joshua7789

This would have been a lot more interesting if Guida would have gone to jackson's before the diego fight. Wasnt there some bad blood between diego and that camp when greg jackson brought in gsp while diego was there and still at ww?


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

joshua7789 said:


> This would have been a lot more interesting if Guida would have gone to jackson's before the diego fight. Wasnt there some bad blood between diego and that camp when greg jackson brought in gsp while diego was there and still at ww?


Yes, Diego felt he was stabbed in the back by Team Jackson.


----------



## BWoods

Greg Jackson does a great job teaching fighters who are incredible natural athletes. He gives them a personal fight style that takes advantage of their gifts. If he could tighten up Clay's striking game and make his GnP a little more effective we could see a monster at lightweight.

As it currently stands Clay Guida's gameplan is to tackle opponents and then do his best impersonation of Animal from the Muppets on the guy's skull.


----------



## SpecC

Whatever Yoda plans for Guida, I hope it doesn't include increasing visibility by chopping the lion mane.


----------



## coldcall420

Sicilian_Esq said:


> Yes, Diego felt he was stabbed in the back by Team Jackson.


 
Yeah he was there still at 170LBS but when he heard Georges was coming he was pissed and left.....

Greg Jackson: "Im totally fine with the decision..."


Not gonna lie as a Diego fan greg pissed me off huge with that......where is the loyalty, not cuz he took GSP in but the things he said about Diego after and allowing him to leave with such ease.......

CC420


----------



## joshua7789

Thats pretty harsh, diego was a top five ww easily. He still could be. Pretty big dick move on jacksons part, considering that diego started off with jackson in the beginning.


----------



## BrianRClover

SpecC said:


> Whatever Yoda plans for Guida, I hope it doesn't include increasing visibility by chopping the lion mane.


You bite your tongue! Guida is like Samson, remove the hair and all of his strength will disappear.


----------



## steveo412

Didnt Kenny just train with GSP and the Jackson crew for his fight with BJ?

Greg was sure a **** to Diego for taking in GSP like that, I remember being pissed off about it.


----------



## Flaw

I always thought he'd do much better if he went to a differnt camp. Especially this one.


----------



## Emericanaddict

Quite simply the Diego/Jackson is drama i don't care for but DAMN Guida training overe there is going to bring his game to new height. Guida could actually become a real contender soon if things go well.


----------



## The505Butcher

Yeah guida was smart to do this. Diego should not have been so touchy about it. He might have been mad though because that would mean he would not be able to fight for the title. Did he leave before or after his losses to Kos and Fitch? I think that it all seems to have worked out because now Diego has a more well rounded game and Jackson is still doing well with training all his fighters.


----------



## TERMINATOR

This fight will be awesome. We get to see if Kenflo can handle the heat.


War Guida


----------



## Biowza

You know what's going to happen though. Jackson will give Guida a gameplan, he'll ignore it and hug Huerta for as long as possible. God I hate Guida.


----------



## InAweOfFedor

I think Guida going to GJ's to train is awesome for him. He is an animal and has sick cardio, Jackson should be able to polish his skills and show him how to capitalize on opportunities a bit better, perhaps teach him some patients and crisper striking.

I like Guida and he has pretty fun fights so good for him, smart move on his part, I hope he kicks Kenny's ass!


----------



## MagiK11

Nice to hear he's with Jackson's team. This will only add to his skill set in my opinion and probably allow him to have a better all around game plan.

Also training with the other guys at Jackson's team where some of them have fairly great stand up will allow him to have more confidence in his close to non existent striking.


----------



## Danomac

Smooth move. I like Guida a lot and so do the fans. I thought Diego was popular but then he fought Guida and the fans chanted his name. I think they do every time he fights. This fight will be even more exciting now.


----------



## coldcall420

Biowza said:


> You know what's going to happen though. Jackson will give Guida a gameplan, he'll ignore it and hug Huerta for as long as possible. God I hate Guida.


 
I think he's goin there to work on his stand up and he will benefit from training with the likes of GSP, Rashad and the other greats that are in New Mexico.......

With that said Guida takes Kenny down and lays on him AFTER 1:20 secs of the 1st when Clay resorts back to himself.....:thumbsup:


Seriously, this could be a great fight for Clay to unveil some great striking...Kenny will swing for the fences and I think Clay will indulge him I just hope eventually Clay doesnt panic and take him to the mat....

CC420


----------



## BWoods

Biowza said:


> You know what's going to happen though. Jackson will give Guida a gameplan, he'll ignore it and hug *Huerta *for as long as possible. God I hate Guida.





coldcall420 said:


> I think he's goin there to work on his stand up and he will benefit from training with the likes of GSP, Rashad and the other greats that are in New Mexico.......
> 
> With that said Guida takes *Huerta *down and lays on him AFTER 1:20 secs of the 1st when Clay resorts back to himself.....:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Seriously, this could be a great fight for Clay to unveil some great striking...*Huerta *will swing for the fences and I think Clay will indulge him I just hope eventually Clay doesnt panic and take him to the mat....
> 
> CC420


Wait...so he's fighting Huerta again? =P

You guys mean Kenny Florian.


----------



## coldcall420

BWoods said:


> Wait...so he's fighting Huerta again? =P
> 
> You guys mean Kenny Florian.


 
Yeah wakes and starts typing on forum...not always the best idea without some coffee first....

Honestly, Im not sure why I thought that...total brain fart combined with eliminating trolls and responding to posts.....

CC420:thumbsup:


----------



## swpthleg

Sicilian_Esq said:


> Yes, Diego felt he was stabbed in the back by Team Jackson.


Why is that?


----------



## SpoKen

Greg Jackson is growing, I have no doubt that after this fight, Guida goes back. And with the edition of Jon Jones, Greg Jackson's fighters are going to get so diverse, they'll have the best takedowns by far.


----------



## wukkadb

swpthleg said:


> Why is that?


Because Jackson started training GSP.


----------



## LCRaiders

Greg Jackson is an outstanding trainer..

The best in the business train in that camp: GSP, Evans, Marquardt..

Guida could learn a lot up there and i'm sure that will only prepare him that much more..


----------



## coldcall420

swpthleg said:


> Why is that?





wukkadb said:


> Because Jackson started training GSP.


 
And Diego said him or me......and Greg said......Him

CC420


As a fan of Diego since the beginning.....really sad to see but he bounced back and landed with some great new coaches....


----------



## Toxic

LCRaiders said:


> Greg Jackson is an outstanding trainer..
> 
> The best in the business train in that camp: GSP, Evans, Marquardt..
> 
> Guida could learn a lot up there and i'm sure that will only prepare him that much more..


Great Training partners at Jacksons > Greg Jackson


----------



## SpoKen

Toxic said:


> Great Training partners at Jacksons > Greg Jackson


This.

I think Jackson is more of a strategist, where the fighters and Winklejohn are more the trainers. It'll be interesting to see exactly what Greg Jackson does on TUF, because he is one of the assistant coaches which is awesome.

With Guida, I think he should concentrate on training with GSP and Rashad and Marquardt primarily. All 3 of those guys have amazing strength in 3 different fields. GSP has amazing takedowns, Guida has good takedowns but they could be better. Rashad can help him improve his hand speed and cordination, Guida tends to throw wild in exchanges. Nate could help him with strength training, because p4p he's probably in the top 3 of strongest fighters in MMA.


----------



## SpecC

Toxic said:


> Great Training partners at Jacksons > Greg Jackson


I can certainly agree with this, but Jackson's influence really shouldn't be underlooked. I know it isn't in the mainstream. If you read Jon Jones interview, he really tries to make the team more family like. He said that everyone has to be friends first because you cannot train with the same people on a daily basis if you don't get along well. Jackson also doesn't seem like the kind of coach to yell at you. Some people might feed off of that, but Jackson seems more like a teacher who calms his fighters.


----------



## Toxic

Jackson is just another figure head getting to much credit, remember when Pat Miletich was the be all end all of MMA coaches? Is he a worse coach now then he used to be? No he had a great group of fighter who fed off one another and evolved by rolling together. There is a long list of gyms that at one point were considered great what they all have in common it they had a great group of guys training there at the time, its not the coach its the training partners.


----------



## coldcall420

*Dan Henderson holds out hope for more money, Anderson Silva*



_http://mmamania.com/2009/09/12/dan-henderson-holds-out-hope-for-more-money-anderson-silva/_


_



“I’m holding firm for what I think I deserve. I think I’ve earned that…. If they sign me I’ll fight who they want me to fight. Even if I get Silva now, after I beat him Marquardt would be the top contender, so I’d have to fight him next. Beat him now or beat him later, it doesn’t matter. I’ll have to fight [Nate] Marquardt eventually…. If I was the UFC I wouldn’t waste a fight between [me and Marquardt]. If they want challengers for the middleweight belt they shouldn’t want one of us to beat the other…. It all depends on Anderson Silva,” Henderson said. “If he’s not going to fight until April, I don’t want to wait that long. But I’ll do what I have to do to fight him…. I’m getting in shape like I’m going to fight,” Henderson said. “I want to stay in the UFC.”

Click to expand...

_​


> Former number one middleweight contender, Dan Henderson, hopes to re-sign a new contract with the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) soon and rematch reigning division champion, Anderson Silva. Henderson pocketed $100,000 to show and a $150,000 win bonus, as well as a $100,000 “Knockout of the Night” bonus, for his most recent — and emphatic — victory over Michael Bisping at UFC 100. Company president Dana White indicated that it was enough to earn him another crack at “The Spider;” however, the Brazilian’s manager, Ed Soares, made the case that Henderson should take on Nate Marquardt first to determine a clear-cut contender. That idea doesn’t sit too well with Henderson, but he will likely do what he has to do … as long as the price is right.


 

Seems like Dan is bent on Anderson and I think he deserves it, plus he doesnt seem totally against nate if thats what the UFC says he has to do......

CC420:thumbsup:


----------



## jeffmantx

coldcall420 said:


> _http://mmamania.com/2009/09/12/dan-henderson-holds-out-hope-for-more-money-anderson-silva/_
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> Seems like Dan is bent on Anderson and I think he deserves it, plus he doesnt seem totally against nate if thats what the UFC says he has to do......
> 
> CC420:thumbsup:


Good find coldcall on this issue while dan and nate both have a reason to get a shot at the title you gotta look at the point of view of ppv sales. Hendo is a high profile name and while his victory over bisping was awesome it was also a high profile opponent, nates victory over maia was awesome as well maia isn't as well known as bisping. Hope I made sense. I agree he deserves it more.


----------



## LCRaiders

Well either way Silva has two top contenders who both want revenge..

And personally I can see both Henderson and Marquardt beating Silva *if* they play their cards right..


----------



## mattreis324

> If I was the UFC I wouldn’t waste a fight between [me and Marquardt]. If they want challengers for the middleweight belt they shouldn’t want one of us to beat the other


Silva only has 3 fights left on his contract. I highly doubt that the UFC wants to waste 2 of those fights on rematches. I think Dana's plan for Silva's next 3 fights is:

Hendo/Marquadt winner
Belfort (if he beats Rich and then a top guy at 185)
Machida (remember this is Dana's plan not mine. He probably thinks he can get any two guys to fight)


----------



## LCRaiders

I would love to see Silva vs. Machida but I highly doubt that will happen..

Dana White can't always get what he wants. He's been chasing Fedor for how many years now?


----------



## Brand X

Really don't see the UFC giving Spider the really "big" fights before he leaves.:confused02:
What, they are going to build him up and then let him leave? Just doesn't make sense from a promoting stand point.


----------



## BrianRClover

mattreis324 said:


> Silva only has 3 fights left on his contract. I highly doubt that the UFC wants to waste 2 of those fights on rematches. I think Dana's plan for Silva's next 3 fights is:
> 
> Hendo/Marquadt winner
> Belfort (if he beats Rich and then a top guy at 185)
> Machida (remember this is Dana's plan not mine. He probably thinks he can get any two guys to fight)


THIS^^^


----------



## Freiermuth

Haha, Hendo said "Beat him now or beat him later, it doesn't matter". He is right, him and Nate are going to meet one way or the other it seems, but I could picture Dan saying it and it just made me laugh.

Good find to the OP.


----------



## vandalian

Man, I have always liked Hendo, but he's totally disrespecting Nate. 

Boo-urns.


----------



## Nefilim777

I think that this, once again, proves that if Silva is gonna wander around the other divisions or take a break there is therefore a need for an interim title while he does. We can't have the likes of Hendo and Nate sitting around waiting for a belt and essentially being gate keepers to the number one contender spot. Guys like that deserve better.


----------



## Diokhan

vandalian said:


> Man, I have always liked Hendo, but he's totally disrespecting Nate.
> 
> Boo-urns.


How is that disrespcting Nate? Hendo deserves the shot more and he should get it. Like he said it makes no sense to drop one of the contenders now when you could have them fight Hendo/Silva after. 
If Hendo beats Nate now and Silva after, who is going to fight him for the belt after that? Vitor? Ok fair enough, but what if Vitor loses against Franklin? 
Basically Hendo and Nate are the only 2 guys even close to deserving a title shot at the moment, pitting them against each other just because Silva doesn't wanna defend his belt is a dumb way to reduce the amount of future contenders. 

If I were Nate I prolly would be fine with fighting Silva/Hendo for the belt after Hendo gets his shot instead of having to do 1 more risky fight and potentially get knocked out from the top of division because of it. All this only because Silva doesn't wanna defend his belt? yeah right...


----------



## No_Mercy

mattreis324 said:


> Silva only has 3 fights left on his contract. I highly doubt that the UFC wants to waste 2 of those fights on rematches. I think Dana's plan for Silva's next 3 fights is:
> 
> Hendo/Marquadt winner
> Belfort (if he beats Rich and then a top guy at 185)
> Machida (remember this is Dana's plan not mine. He probably thinks he can get any two guys to fight)


Hah...haha...that's awesome! "Machida (remember this is Dana's plan not mine. He probably thinks he can get any two guys to fight)"

I'd put in GSP for a super fight. Really would like to see him fight Mir in the HW division. First MMA fighter to go up three divisions. Impressive...


----------



## Bzaal

I totally agree with Hendo. 
I'm not disrispecting Nate or anything, but really, Dan's last three opponents have been much tougher that Nate's, imo.


----------



## Jamal

^^^ I agree with this


----------



## TERMINATOR

I hope the Silva Machida match happens in the future. Its a sport boys suck it up and beat the shit out of each other. In the end then you can be buddy buddy again


----------



## AceofSpades187

No_Mercy said:


> Hah...haha...that's awesome! "Machida (remember this is Dana's plan not mine. He probably thinks he can get any two guys to fight)"
> 
> I'd put in GSP for a super fight. Really would like to see him fight Mir in the HW division. First MMA fighter to go up three divisions. Impressive...


Joe riggs has foaght at 4 disvions heres info from wiki Over his career, Riggs has fought in the Heavyweight, Light Heavyweight, Middleweight and Welterweight divisions


----------



## coldcall420

LCRaiders said:


> I would love to see Silva vs. Machida but I highly doubt that will happen..
> 
> Dana White can't always get what he wants. He's been chasing Fedor for how many years now?





TERMINATOR said:


> I hope the Silva Machida match happens in the future. Its a sport boys suck it up and beat the shit out of each other. In the end then you can be buddy buddy again


 

Dana owns both Silva and Machida he has never owned Fedor......

If Dana wants it to happen it will happen.....

CC420


----------



## khoveraki

Silva/Machida would be epically boring. Two naturally elusive and rarely-engaging fighters, who are also RELUCTANT FRIENDS... isn't going to make for a good match up. We'd have to say: winner gets a million dollars, loses gets fired and blacklisted. Then we might see a passionate fight.


Henderson would really give Silva problems. I can see him taking it before the end of the second round. If not by then, Silva by TKO.


And just want to toss this out there: why do people write off GSP in GSP vs. Silva? I'm pretty sure GSP would have this in the bag. Silva's kryptonite is wrestlers with good submissions, and GSP is the best in the world at that. He's also got potentially the best stand-up at welterweight. I'm 100% sure he can take Silva down at will, just look at what Lutter did to him. I give it to GSP by 3rd round submission (assuming it's a non title catchweight fight).


----------



## vandalian

Diokhan said:


> How is that disrespcting Nate? Hendo deserves the shot more and he should get it. Like he said it makes no sense to drop one of the contenders now when you could have them fight Hendo/Silva after.
> If Hendo beats Nate now and Silva after, who is going to fight him for the belt after that? Vitor? Ok fair enough, but what if Vitor loses against Franklin?
> Basically Hendo and Nate are the only 2 guys even close to deserving a title shot at the moment, pitting them against each other just because Silva doesn't wanna defend his belt is a dumb way to reduce the amount of future contenders.
> 
> If I were Nate I prolly would be fine with fighting Silva/Hendo for the belt after Hendo gets his shot instead of having to do 1 more risky fight and potentially get knocked out from the top of division because of it. All this only because Silva doesn't wanna defend his belt? yeah right...


Looking past your opponent isn't disrespectful? 

Not even acknowledging your next opponent as a threat isn't disrespectful?


----------



## BobbyD

> the Brazilian’s manager, Ed Soares, made the case that Henderson should take on Nate Marquardt first to determine a clear-cut contender


Who does this guy think he is? Joe Silva? I hope Dana doesn't fold on this. Hendo should get the shot asap.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Hes getting old, Hendo doesn't have much career time left, so I'm not surprised that he wants more money and wants to try to topple Silva while he still has the chance.


----------



## coldcall420

*A ‘200 percent healthy’ Anderson Silva is ready to make Frank Mir his next victim*

_



“I don’t know anything at all about any elbow injury. I wonder who hurt me? I’m 200 percent healthy and there’s no injury. UFC can set the next fight whenever they want, I’m ready. I’m interested in fighting Frank Mir. He can be the next one.”

Click to expand...

_​


> Despite an MMA Live ‘tweet’ from ESPN that had the Brazilian sidelined with an elbow injury, reigning UFC 185-pound champion Anderson Silva is as fresh as the morning dew and ready to fight when called upon. “The Spider” makes no qualms about answering the challenge of former heavyweight champion Frank Mir, who promised to ‘rip his shoulder out of his socket’ if he and Silva ever hit the ground during a fight. A move up to heavyweight would be unprecedented, but more than likely wouldn’t happen anytime soon — company president Dana White, naturally, isn’t too keen on the idea. In fact, he’s still holding out for an eventual superfight between Silva and reigning light heavyweight champion Lyoto Machida. Spidey and “The Dragon” have already refused that offer. Sounds like fighting in the UFC isn’t restricted to just the Octagon.


It seems like Anderson certainly has no shortage of potential opponents in the near future....

Thoughts....???

CC420:confused02:


----------



## coldcall420

*UFC Quick Quote: Move over Vitor, ‘Ace’ wants a crack at the 205-pound title*

_



“He’s tough. I don’t think people here in the States realize how tough he is because he’s been out of the UFC for so many years. But he’s evolved as a fighter and he’s more dangerous as a fighter now than he was five or six years ago. He’s very well rounded and definitely a tough challenge. People ask me if I want a title shot at 205 pounds, and of course I’d love a title shot, but I’m not the No. 1 contender yet, I’m a couple wins away from that, and right now Vitor is in my way. If I don’t beat Vitor I’m that much further back, so I have to be focusing on Vitor.”

Click to expand...

_​


> Former UFC 185-pound champion Rich Franklin, who returned to the light heavyweight division after getting evicted from the middleweight class by current landlord Anderson Silva, will shed a few pounds to face former UFC heavyweight Vitor Belfort at UFC 103 on Sept. 19. “Ace” tells MMA Fanhouse that he is on course to challenge for the 205-pound title with a few more wins and that Belfort is standing in his way. But will “The Phenom” be standing over him on Saturday night? This one has “Knockout of the Night” written all over it…


I love Rich but I dont see him ever hoding the 205 Title.....

CC420


----------



## Soakked

I dunno, as much as I respect Mir as a fighter I just see him getting Vera'ed all over again. Unless he learns to TD like a pro I see no chance of him winning.


----------



## dfn2008

You've got Henderson and Marquardt both wanting a shot at Silva and Dana was quoted as saying Vitor Belfort could give him a run for his money as well. If Franklin tops Belfort that blows Belfort's chances anytime soon, so I think we concentrate on his next 2-3 fights and setup a Machida fight in late 2010 after Machida actually has a chance to defend his belt.


----------



## khoveraki

Am I the only one who thinks Machida vs Silva wouldn't be that good of a fight? I definitely just see Machida picking him apart slowly to a UD. What's Silva going to do? Take him down? Machida's ground game is better and his reflexes are quicker. Plus they'd both be so reluctant, I can't imagine it being too high-paced.

Silva vs. Mir though seems really interesting. If I can find it I'll post the thread that talked about it before - Mir said he'd try to stand with him but if it hit the ground, he'd have Silva subbed him a heartbeat. Silva and Mir to me are about the same on the ground... and Mir is definitely not anywhere near good enough to stand with Silva. I mean, if Vera can beat him...


----------



## Soakked

I see Rich beating Vitor. Vitor is one dangerous mutha, but Rich will frustrate him and out work him. I think Rich by late 3 rd stoppage. Lyoto will knock his lights out again though.


----------



## dfn2008

I am eager to see the unbeatable Machida defend his belt a few times. It seems we have all crowned him as another Anderson Silva and he hasn't even defended his belt.

I like Franklin over Belfort. Who Rich gets after that is anyone's guess.


----------



## Soakked

No way is Silva as good as Mir on the ground. Their technique might be close in skill, but Mir is a heck of a lot stronger. With technique equal, strength has an edge. But I don't see it going to the ground TBH. Mir would get to see the stars if he stands.


----------



## Bob Pataki

Dana has said multiple times Anderson isn't fighting at Heavyweight and I hope he sticks to his word.

There are far more exciting fights at 205 imo, and it seems Anderson is just calling out for the best matchup for himself at heavyweight. Its a fight that not only pulls away from some 205 dominance, but is one that he should be leaving for big Nog to call out.

I don't get it, Nog is the one who needs this fight not Anderson. Why doesn't Anderson call for someone who is slightly less perfect for him?

If he wants a test against a average sized heavyweight why not make things interesting and ask for Kongo or Cro Cop? I don't really want to see Anderson get smothered by a heavyweight wrestler, but someone who is going to strike with him would be far more exciting.


----------



## Soakked

dfn2008 said:


> I am eager to see the unbeatable Machida defend his belt a few times. It seems we have all crowned him as another Anderson Silva and he hasn't even defended his belt.


Oh I truly agree on that point, only difference is that Rich and Lyoto fought before and he lost pretty badly. Since then both have improved, but I don't think Franlin's improved to the point that there would be a different outcome. Just my .02.


----------



## joshua7789

I dont see Franklin being able to beat any of the top five guys at lhw right now. Lyoto already beat him and i dont see him beating rampage, rashad, shogun, or thiago silva at the moment.


----------



## mattandbenny

Its good that he's healthy but i dont know why he's so obsessed with the Mir right, i have no interest in it really, doesnt benefit him at all.


----------



## Negative1

So Anderson is calling out a guy who plays right into his strengths, theres a surprise. 

Why doesn't Anderson take on someone with a legit wrestling background for a change?

And no, Henderson wasn't the guy to do it cause his top game sucks.

EDIT: The onyl way this fight benefits Silva is to fill his record with wins in different weight classes. Mir is not a good fight for Anderson, Anderson would take him apart with ease and I say that outside the realm of him being the most dominant fighter on the planet. Mir would not get him down and sure as shit won't KO or win a decision over him.


----------



## Soakked

I think he has a decent chance of beating Thiago, and Shogun, but I agree I think Rashad and Rampage would beat him soundly. But he's definitely not a top 5er, maybe top 10.


----------



## khoveraki

Bob Pataki said:


> Dana has said multiple times Anderson isn't fighting at Heavyweight and I hope he sticks to his word.
> 
> There are far more exciting fights at 205 imo, and it seems Anderson is just calling out for the best matchup for himself at heavyweight. Its a fight that not only pulls away from some 205 dominance, but is one that he should be leaving for big Nog to call out.
> 
> I don't get it, Nog is the one who needs this fight not Anderson. Why doesn't Anderson call for someone who is slightly less perfect for him?
> 
> If he wants a test against a average sized heavyweight why not make things interesting and ask for Kongo or Cro Cop? I don't really want to see Anderson get smothered by a heavyweight wrestler, but someone who is going to strike with him would be far more exciting.




I definitely agree, that never even crossed my mind. I'd kill to see Silva vs. a top heavyweight striker.


----------



## Negative1

Lyoto has embarassed everyone they put in front of him, its easy to label him as the next best thing. 

For the topic at hand, Rich is a gatekeeper at best. He will not hold a title at MW or LHW in the UFC. I think Nate would beat him at MW and I think just about every top 5 guy would beat him in LHW. 

Imagine what Shogun, Rampage, Evans, Lyoto (again but worse) and Rogerio would do to him? He would strike with each one of those guys and would get put down multiple times in the process. 

The only strikers I see Rich beating that matter at LHW are Jardine, Vera and Thiago Silva, and even those are toss ups.

Oh yea and a fight against Cane would surely end in bloody murder.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

Rich has just a good a chance to beat Lyoto as anyone else. Hell, probably more, as he'd be game for a 5 round point match.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

Mir's just trying to feel what it's like to be Lesnar and outweigh his opponent by 40+ pounds.


----------



## ptw

Negative1 said:


> So Anderson is calling out a guy who plays right into his strengths, theres a surprise.
> 
> Why doesn't Anderson take on someone with a legit wrestling background for a change?
> 
> And no, Henderson wasn't the guy to do it cause his top game sucks.
> 
> EDIT: The onyl way this fight benefits Silva is to fill his record with wins in different weight classes. Mir is not a good fight for Anderson, Anderson would take him apart with ease and I say that outside the realm of him being the most dominant fighter on the planet. Mir would not get him down and sure as shit won't KO or win a decision over him.


He can call out anyone at 205 or 185 with a wrestling background and whoop their ass. It would be ridiculously stupid for him to call out someone with a wrestling background at heavyweight because he would get torn apart...all they have to do is rush him, and press their weight up on him against the cage.


----------



## demoman993

I'm sure that Dana wants no part of this as it will put yet another (3rd) division in the UFC where Anderson is possibly championship quality. Not saying its the case but would make the UFC look kinda silly. 

Heavyweights I'd like to see Anderson fight in the UFC

Gonzaga
Kongo
Carwin
Velasquez

LHW I'd like to see Anderson fight

Rampage
Thiago Silva
Luis Cane
Shogun

These are a few guys that I'd like to see Anderson mix it up with if he's going to move up in weight. Makes for interesting matchups with guys that hit hard. 
Forget about Machida vs. Silva, no amount of money will make that fight happen. If it does someone can make me a humiliating sig and I'll use it.


----------



## shatterproof

plenty of super fights at LHW for Anderson but...

i'm a huge Machida fan and have nothing but respect for Anderson but i dont get all the interest in this match. Styles make fights, we know, and these styles will likely result in a dance-off for 5 rounds.


----------



## swpthleg

Sicilian_Esq said:


> Rich has just a good a chance to beat Lyoto as anyone else. Hell, probably more, as he'd be game for a 5 round point match.


That just made my day. I'm not ready to write Ace off as a gatekeeper yet, or any time in the foreseeable future.


----------



## unclehulka13

Why is everyone so quick to label Franklin as a gatekeeper? The man has literally lost to the best, and nothing less. Silva twice, Henderson, and Machida. The Henderson fight is still up in the air to most of us. The guy is definitely not a slouch, but I'm sure a majority of people will say he has not fought top tier talent, which can be argued for 90% of the ufc's "Top 10"


----------



## enceledus

joshua7789 said:


> I dont see Franklin being able to beat any of the top five guys at lhw right now. Lyoto already beat him and i dont see him beating rampage, rashad, shogun, or thiago silva at the moment.


I wouldn't give him much of a chance against Machida, but against Thiago Silva? really? I'm pretty sure Franklin could take that, and I think he could probably take Rashad and Shogun as well....


----------



## khoveraki

swpthleg said:


> That just made my day. I'm not ready to write Ace off as a gatekeeper yet, or any time in the foreseeable future.


I dunno, Lyoto seriously hurt him when Lyoto was only what... 3 fights into his MMA career? It was a pretty brutal TKO.


Lyoto has improved tenfold since then and has developed a new strength training program that's given him pretty serious knock out power.


----------



## xeberus

Soakked said:


> I see Rich beating Vitor. Vitor is one dangerous mutha, but Rich will frustrate him and out work him. I think Rich by late 3 rd stoppage. Lyoto will knock his lights out again though.


Vitor has some serious power i cant wait to see if vitor will win by KO or rich by UD. :thumbsup:


----------



## Breadfan

Rich fights a very smart yet exciting fight. I will be supporting and rooting for him in all of his fights. 


Not to say he'll whip Vitor though... That's another story.


----------



## Don$ukh

Sicilian_Esq said:


> Rich has just a good a chance to beat Lyoto as anyone else. Hell, probably more, as he'd be game for a 5 round point match.


I cannot see Machida being beaten by any LHW for now, but I can see Rich giving Machida the most trouble out of the LHWs before he goes down too.

People need to stop looking at the way Rich carries himself being respectful and being a down to earth nice guy, they should actually look at his resume and fighting skills.


----------



## Seperator88

wow i love the amnesia, you guys are not giving rich enough credit. have we all forgot that rich, while he doesen't exactly stand out so strong in one aspect like ko power, or big slams, or whatever, but he is really good at everything. put in his amazing conditioning and his intelligence, the guy is champion material and proved it for a long time, just taking out everyone he fought, making it look easy til silva came along. most of the other top LHW's all have one aspect where you can see them getting dominated and are actually not that well rounded


----------



## LCRaiders

Lol, Franklin won't even beat Belfort and he want's to be a champion at 205..

I'm excited to see how things work out..


----------



## Negative1

Sorry to break it to everyone but Franklin doesn't have the proper skills to make it to the top in either of these divisions. His striking is mediocre, has almsot zero wrestling, he might submit a fool or 2 but he certainly doesn't show any world class JJ that would warrant him worthy of being near the top of the division.

The best thing he has going for him is his gas tank but that alone is not going to carry him to the top.


----------



## Negative1

ptw said:


> He can call out anyone at 205 or 185 with a wrestling background and whoop their ass. It would be ridiculously stupid for him to call out someone with a wrestling background at heavyweight because he would get torn apart...all they have to do is rush him, and press their weight up on him against the cage.


So he only wants to fight people he can beat eh. Ya know, GSP could probably beat Chieck Kongo. Hell, even Bj Penn could beat Kongo. Kongos biggest weakness would be exploited once again by GSP. Maybe BJ penn is a long shot but hey, it's the same ball park as Anderson fighting Frank Mir.


----------



## wukkadb

swpthleg said:


> That just made my day. I'm not ready to write Ace off as a gatekeeper yet, or any time in the foreseeable future.


Me either! I have faith in Franklin still.


----------



## Negative1

Fan boy faith or legit faith?

Cause, I still believe Jardine is going to be the champion of the Universe next year. It ain't gonna happen, but I still have faith.


----------



## AceCombat

Soakked said:


> I think he has a decent chance of beating Thiago, and Shogun, but I agree I think Rashad and Rampage would beat him soundly. But he's definitely not a top 5er, maybe top 10.


I'd actually be willing to bet that Rich beats Rashad, on the count that hes larger, better cardio and better kicks/length. Rashad could not outwrestle Rich for *3* rounds. Rich is in a bad spot, he's sooo good but he just cant beat *the best* fighters i.e, A.Silva, Machida, Jackson (maybe), Dan Hendo (maybe).

Him and Marquardt be close, but I'd go with Rich barely.


----------



## Soakked

You have some valid points, I guess it just comes down to opinion. Rich is my boy, but I think Rashad has better striking with KO power(though Rich's striking isn't that far off), better wrestling, is faster and is more agile, and has a good chin. Rich got better cardio, is more well rounded(JJ, TDD, striking, carido etc..), also has good chin. If I had to pick who has the best chance of landing a KO or TKO I would go with Rashad. I don't see Rich going for a TD but I could be wrong. It'll be a close fight without a doubt and can go anyway, I would however give Rashad the slight advantage. There's a reason why Rashads a top 5er, and Franklin isn't.


----------



## coldcall420

Negative1 said:


> Sorry to break it to everyone but Franklin doesn't have the proper skills to make it to the top in either of these divisions. His striking is mediocre, has almsot zero wrestling, he might submit a fool or 2 but he certainly doesn't show any world class JJ that would warrant him worthy of being near the top of the division.
> 
> The best thing he has going for him is his gas tank but that alone is not going to carry him to the top.


 
What this guy said.....

CC420


----------



## coldcall420

Soakked said:


> No way is Silva as good as Mir on the ground. Their technique might be close in skill, but Mir is a heck of a lot stronger. With technique equal, strength has an edge. But I don't see it going to the ground TBH. Mir would get to see the stars if he stands.


 
I see Mir doin to Silva what LesNAR did to him.....



mattandbenny said:


> Its good that he's healthy but i dont know why he's so obsessed with the Mir right, i have no interest in it really, doesnt benefit him at all.


 
It really can only hurt him but to be honest i doubt this will ever happen....

CC420


----------



## OsborneMcCarty

I would really like to see Mir fight Silva. Considering Mir was just in a title fight, it seems fair for Silva (as he has been working his way up the 205 ranks).

Mir would get destroyed on the feet but the ground would be a different story. Mir could thrive because Silva wouldn't be able to smother him on the ground like Lesnar did. He stands a decent chance.

The key to the whole fight for Mir would be getting the fight to the ground (without being unconscious first). Can't tear someones limb off while you're eyes are rolled back in your head.


----------



## coldcall420

OsborneMcCarty said:


> I would really like to see Mir fight Silva. Considering Mir was just in a title fight, it seems fair for Silva (as he has been working his way up the 205 ranks).
> 
> Mir would get destroyed on the feet but the ground would be a different story. Mir could thrive because Silva wouldn't be able to smother him on the ground like Lesnar did. He stands a decent chance.
> 
> The key to the whole fight for Mir would be getting the fight to the ground (without being unconscious first). Can't tear someones limb off while you're eyes are rolled back in your head.


 
You gotta keep in mind Anderson isnt gonna just come in wild and it isnt gonna look like Forrest....Mir can stand with him because of his sheer size the ability to strike is somethin that Mir isnt lacking so Anderson wouldnt just be able to come in with his hands down like he did with Forrest....

Mir will watch film and knows dam well to take Silva down and it would be Mir in Silva's guard not the other way around.....

CC420


----------



## DropKicker

As much as I like to watch Ace fight... I just don't see him winning even in this fight with Vitor... he's basically a poorman's version of Vitor... Vitor has better striking, speed, & ground game... what's Rich gonna do to win, outstrike & win points?... not happening... He's pretty much become the american Wanderlei Silva version now... alls the UFC can do now is use him for big fights because his name sells...


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Considering how Forrest picked apart Evans for nearly 3 rounds, and given the fact that Franklin is a better striker, more intelligent fighter, and makes less mistakes... I'd have to say that Franklin could beat Evans. 

Franklin can break into the top 5 LHW, but I don't forsee him beating Anderson or Lyoto. He could beat Hendo, Evans, Griffin, Jardine, Thiago, annnd probably Rampage.


----------



## michelangelo

Rich is great for the UFC, for a variety of obvious reasons. But he doesn't have the quickness of Rashad or Lyoto, and he does not possess one punch KO power like Rashad and Rampage. 

He'll be a top level gatekeeper (if there is such a thing) for at least a year. And he keeps main eventing UFC cards even without a belt so someone must believe he's still pretty good.


----------



## DropKicker

As much as I hate Frank Mir lately... I can actually see him pulling off a win by sumbmission if it hits the ground... the size is too big of a factor for Silva to be able to negate the pace & fight in his favor...Mir will use his mediocre striking to set up for a shoot every chance he gets.. because it'd be foolish for him to want to stand & trade with Andy through out the fight...


----------



## unclehulka13

michelangelo said:


> Rich is great for the UFC, for a variety of obvious reasons. But he doesn't have the quickness of Rashad or Lyoto, and he does not possess one punch KO power like Rashad and Rampage.
> 
> He'll be a top level gatekeeper (if there is such a thing) for at least a year. And he keeps main eventing UFC cards even without a belt so someone must believe he's still pretty good.


Because Rashad has one punch power against who? Chuck Liddel?


----------



## caveman

Silva should just give up his middle weight belt and jump full force into the LHW divison.


----------



## joshua7789

I think that silva would take this one with ease. Frank Mir isnt going to be any faster then forrest. He will probably be a lot slower actually. There is no way he will be able to knock out silva. Mir has a good ground game, but he is known for having good subs and a good guard, he isnt really known to be one of those guys that has excellent control on the ground. I think that silva trains with nog enough to not have trouble with mir on the ground.


----------



## LCRaiders

IMO the only advantage that Mir has agains't Silva is his ground game..

Mir is so fast and technical on the floor plus he's much stronger..


----------



## Grizzly909

Rich isnt doin anything in the lhw div. Besides vitors gonna pound him to oblivion. After that its off to the mw div. And start establishing himself.


----------



## UrbanBounca

Franklin is my favorite fighter, and I'll support him til the day he retires. Will he beat Belfort? That's still to be seen. Can he beat Belfort? Absolutely.


----------



## Servatose

Negative1 said:


> So Anderson is calling out a guy who plays right into his strengths, theres a surprise.
> 
> Why doesn't Anderson take on someone with a legit wrestling background for a change?
> 
> And no, Henderson wasn't the guy to do it cause his top game sucks.
> 
> EDIT: The onyl way this fight benefits Silva is to fill his record with wins in different weight classes. Mir is not a good fight for Anderson, Anderson would take him apart with ease and I say that outside the realm of him being the most dominant fighter on the planet. Mir would not get him down and sure as shit won't KO or win a decision over him.


As much as I see where you're coming from, certainly the fact that Anderson is originally a middle weight fighter should come into perspective.

The fact that he's willing to jump three weight classes is enough for me to be thoroughly impressed with whoever he fights. I think often times we forget how talented it may be to fight a heavyweight when you're a middle weight.


----------



## khoveraki

unclehulka13 said:


> Because Rashad has one punch power against who? Chuck Liddel?


I don't understand this post... Rashad was improving and knocked out the Iceman with one clean punch.


In terms of KO power, one KO is all you need on your record.


----------



## SideWays222

khoveraki said:


> I don't understand this post... Rashad was improving and knocked out the Iceman with one clean punch.
> 
> 
> In terms of KO power, one KO is all you need on your record.


Then Rich has just as much KO power as Rashad.


----------



## michelangelo

Anderson is clearly a student of RJJ's career. Remember when RJJ took on and embarrassed a big lumbering goof named John Ruiz? Maybe not. But history is about to repeat itself when Anderson waxes that waddling puddle of ego and whale blubber called Frank Muir.


----------



## coldcall420

michelangelo said:


> Anderson is clearly a student of RJJ's career. Remember when RJJ took on and embarrassed a big lumbering goof named John Ruiz? Maybe not. But history is about to repeat itself when Anderson waxes that waddling puddle of ego and whale blubber called Frank Muir.


 
Mir will do what Forrest should have and could have done IMO and thats shoot in and bring Anderson where he doesn't want to go.....the ground, I know, I know he is a BJJ black and the next best thing and all but lets get real here folks....

Travis Lutter gave Anderson trouble on the ground and you dont think Mir will???? Also you think Mir doesn't have the ability to stand and trade when he is clearly the bigger man....longer reach????

Please...think about what your saying and envision it in your mind......people say Mir can stand and trade no prob if he fights Kongo and you dont think he could with Anderson....

As far as RJJ, that was only boxing he dint need to worry about some one shooting in mounting him with relative ease then pounding the shit out of his face or perhaps even pulling a Kimura????

Frank Mir weighs 245 and is a VERY legit black belt on the ground.....Exactly where Anderson has been exploited the most....

CC420:confused05:


----------



## coldcall420

SideWays222 said:


> Then Rich has just as much KO power as Rashad.


 
LOL at you sideways......

CC420


----------



## Negative1

Servatose said:


> As much as I see where you're coming from, certainly the fact that Anderson is originally a middle weight fighter should come into perspective.
> 
> The fact that he's willing to jump three weight classes is enough for me to be thoroughly impressed with whoever he fights. I think often times we forget how talented it may be to fight a heavyweight when you're a middle weight.


BJ Penn fought Lyoto Machida at HW before and took him to a decision. Just because they can doesn't mean they should.


----------



## DropKick

Wow, I can't believe how little respect Franklin is getting from some of you guys. In 30 fights Rich has gone to decision 4 times and only losing 1 of them. How many other fighters can say that? The guy finishes fights and he is going to finish Vitor. 

People like to think Vitor is somehow back but in reality Vitor is a very inconsistent fighter and Rich is one of the most consistent fighters in MMA. Vitor hasn't beaten anyone close to the level of Rich since he beat Wanderlei way back in 1998. And yeah, I don't want to hear about that victory over Couture or the KO of Lindland. Rich is better than Lindland in every aspect of MMA besides greco roman wrestling.

Losing to A. Silva and Machida and close split decision to Hendo doesn't exactly make you a gate keeper. Rich can easily be a top 5 LHW as I don't see most of that division being better than him. Rich is a more well rounded fighter than just about anyone that fights at that weight class. Can he beat Machida? Probably not, but he can beat anyone else in that division.


----------



## khoveraki

coldcall420 said:


> Mir will do what Forrest should have and could have done IMO and thats shoot in and bring Anderson where he doesn't want to go.....the ground, I know, I know he is a BJJ black and the next best thing and all but lets get real here folks....
> 
> Travis Lutter gave Anderson trouble on the ground and you dont think Mir will???? Also you think Mir doesn't have the ability to stand and trade when he is clearly the bigger man....longer reach????
> 
> Please...think about what your saying and envision it in your mind......people say Mir can stand and trade no prob if he fights Kongo and you dont think he could with Anderson....
> 
> As far as RJJ, that was only boxing he dint need to worry about some one shooting in mounting him with relative ease then pounding the shit out of his face or perhaps even pulling a Kimura????
> 
> Frank Mir weighs 245 and is a VERY legit black belt on the ground.....Exactly where Anderson has been exploited the most....
> 
> CC420:confused05:


Frank Mir has what...a one and a half inch reach advantage? But his shoulders are much wider than Silva's... I'd say arm to arm Silva is either equal or longer. They're the same height, and the weight difference is Silva were to fight would probably be less than 20pounds. DW says Silva walks around at 215-220lbs, Mir walks around at 245lbs.


I'd bet Mir would get cocky and think he can stand with Silva, and it'd be lights out from there. It's possible he'd weather the storm for a few blows and go for a take down, but would mostly like catch a taste of the Brazillian's knee.

Mir is no take-down artist, and a sloppy take-down is dangerous to try on a Muay Thai master like Anderson.


And judging by his gameplanning at UFC100, his strategy for Anderson would be "pick him apart standing."

I think it's crucial to see how he handles Cheick Kongo though. Mir fighting a good striker with no ground game seems awesomely relevant to this thread. 

edit: just remembered Vera basically defeated Mir in a clinch... something to think about.


----------



## michelangelo

Rich really does not have a role in the UFC other than as gatekeeper at this point. He left the MW division to get away from Spider. And it's pretty clear he would be at a severe disadvantage against Lyoto. Where does that leave him? In no man's land at 195. There isn't even a division at 195! But this is his second consecutive fight at 195!

If Rich and the UFC are serious about Rich fighting at 205, he should begin to fight at 205. There is no other logical explanation for Rich "staying" at 195 except that the UFC is protecting him from top contenders at LHW.


----------



## coldcall420

khoveraki said:


> Frank Mir has what...a one and a half inch reach advantage? *But his shoulders are much wider than Silva's...* I'd say arm to arm Silva is either equal or longer. They're the same height, and the weight difference is Silva were to fight would probably be less than 20pounds. DW says Silva walks around at 215-220lbs, Mir walks around at 245lbs.
> 
> *Those shoulders have more power in them......plus Mir would weigh more than that on fight night and is naturally the bigger man.....*
> 
> 
> *I'd bet Mir would get cocky and think he can stand with Silva*, and it'd be lights out from there. It's possible he'd weather the storm for a few blows* and go for a take down*, but would mostly like catch a taste of the Brazillian's knee.
> 
> *He can stand with Silva and will for some portion of the fight......*
> 
> *What manor do you believe Frank would try to take him down? Direct question??*
> 
> 
> *Mir is no take-down artist*, and a sloppy take-down is dangerous to try on a Muay Thai master like Anderson.
> 
> *If he wanted to he could just pull guard......hes got sweeps and tosses*:dunno:
> 
> 
> 
> *And judging by his gameplanning at UFC100*, his strategy for Anderson would be "pick him apart standing."
> 
> 
> 
> *I dont see what makes you think he would gameplan for a different fighter with different skills the same way:confused02:*
> 
> 
> I think it's crucial to see how he handles Cheick Kongo though. *Mir fighting a good striker with no ground game seems awesomely relevant to this thread*.
> 
> 
> *I like your subtle stab, but the reality is Kongo is a great striker and it would be a test of Mirs skills, people already postted they think Mir would get the better of the striking.....relevance is that Mirs stand up isnt shit.....*
> 
> edit: just remembered Vera basically defeated Mir in a clinch... *something to think about*.


 
*Also think about the two breaks in his legs along with the 2 specialists that said he would never fight again and consider that fight was him first coming back from that injury......*




*Pretty much nailed all that I would say!!!*

*CC420:thumbsup:*


----------



## DropKick

How is it possible to be 200% healthy?


----------



## Negative1

DropKick said:


> How is it possible to be 200% healthy?


*whispers....steroids! 

:thumb01:


----------



## khoveraki

coldcall420 said:


> *Also think about the two breaks in his legs along with the 2 specialists that said he would never fight again and consider that fight was him first coming back from that injury......*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Pretty much nailed all that I would say!!!*
> 
> *CC420:thumbsup:*


I don't think Mir would weigh in more than 245lbs... Guys at HW don't cut as long as they're under 265, right? I thought at least.

And Mir's striking against Nog was very predictable... 1-2 out... 1-2-3 out... 1-2 out... Silva would have a field day with a style like that.

I agree that Mir could pull guard, but then he has to deal with Silva's vicious elbows from top. 

And I was saying Mir's gameplan at UFC100 was "take Lesnar down and submit him." Taking down a 295lb wrestler with limited striking experience is like deciding to pick Silva apart standing. 

His loss to Vera was his third fight after coming back, and it was two years after his motorcycle accident.

Mir ontop of Silva would probably lead to Silva getting submitted though.


----------



## Servatose

Negative1 said:


> BJ Penn fought Lyoto Machida at HW before and took him to a decision. Just because they can doesn't mean they should.


We're not talking about a young BJ Penn vs a young Lyoto Machida. As valid as your point may seem, the fact is that we're looking at two fighters in the prime of their lives in the premier organization.

While BJ may seem like a valid comparison the circumstances are very different, and hardly really would compare to the situation surrounding Anderson vs Mir. 

All I was simply saying originally was that it's easy to say something like "Anderson's picking fighters to best suit his style" but you're forgetting about the fact that he's jumping two weight classes. I don't understand how that takes anything away from how impressive and admirable a decision it is.


----------



## ptw

Negative1 said:


> So he only wants to fight people he can beat eh. Ya know, GSP could probably beat Chieck Kongo. Hell, even Bj Penn could beat Kongo. Kongos biggest weakness would be exploited once again by GSP. Maybe BJ penn is a long shot but hey, it's the same ball park as Anderson fighting Frank Mir.


Why would he want to fight people he knows he will lose against? 

Yes, he stands an actual chance at defeating Frank Mir. A small chance I would say, considering all Mir has to do is take Anderson down and just apply his weight and GnP him. 

In a fight, there's always that random factor. Especially with skilled fighters, one slip, and it could mean the match. BJ and GSP could give Kongo a shot, but the chances of them winning are low.


----------



## callme1

Sicilian_Esq said:


> Mir's just trying to feel what it's like to be Lesnar and outweigh his opponent by 40+ pounds.


Mir was challenged not the other way around idiot..mir will kill anderson silva.end his career.


----------



## BazDaManUk

Mir has the edge because simply he is big and better on the ground if he gets it down he's going to be very difficult to move, and on the feet I think he can take a few and not get ko'd so he can get in close with Anderson.


I think the reason Silva challenged Mir is because he beat Nog, he wants revenge!


----------



## Josh Jones III

unclehulka13 said:


> Why is everyone so quick to label Franklin as a gatekeeper? The man has literally lost to the best, and nothing less. Silva twice, Henderson, and Machida. The Henderson fight is still up in the air to most of us. The guy is definitely not a slouch, but I'm sure a majority of people will say he has not fought top tier talent, which can be argued for 90% of the ufc's "Top 10"


Agreed all the way. I don't even think he lost to Henderson, and the Machida fight was so long ago that he Franklin may as well have been a different fighter. So the only two losses that really matter are the two to Anderson Silva. Rich is still an elite fighter. 

If Shogun got a title shot for beating washed up Coleman and Liddell, Franklin should get the next crack at Machida if he beats Vitor. Wins over Wanderelei and Vitor would be more impressive than what Shogun did to earn his shot. 

Franklin will beat Belfort in a hard-fought, bloody decision very similar to his win over Wandy.


----------



## coldcall420

khoveraki said:


> I don't think Mir would weigh in more than 245lbs... Guys at HW don't cut as long as they're under 265, right? I thought at least.
> 
> *And Mir's striking against Nog was very predictable... 1-2 out... 1-2-3 out... 1-2 out... Silva would have a field day with a style like that.*
> 
> *I agree that Mir could pull guard, but then he has to deal with Silva's vicious elbows from top. *
> 
> And I was saying Mir's gameplan at UFC100 was "take Lesnar down and submit him." Taking down a 295lb wrestler with limited striking experience is like deciding to pick Silva apart standing.
> 
> *His loss to Vera was his third fight after coming back, and it was two years after his motorcycle accident.*
> 
> Mir ontop of Silva would probably lead to Silva getting submitted though.


 
Starting from the bottom up: 

1st.....two yrs after a motorcycle accident where the doctor werent like yeah you'll fight again...Two seperate specialists told him your career is over, he started drinking and using drugs and almost quit the sport lost his marraige, thats alot over 2 yrs and since has pulled himself back together......

2nd. Mir can pull guard and work subs off his back, he can reverse Silva with his weight advantage, he doesnt have to simply pull guard he can sweep or toss silva from the clinch against the cage, take him down and mount him.......Its Anderson Silva not superman......

3rd. Mirs striking was anything but predictable againsr Nog....He opened the fight with a 5-6 punch/kick combo that was beautiful and set the tone for the entire fight.....He was throwing one two's followed with an uppercut and then either head or body kick....Mirs striking was some of the best he has shown in his career in that fight....

Now Nogs condition is another story but Mirs combos that night were amazing....it was too long ago but I remember being so impressed I watched it like 15 times and used to be able to recite what the first 6 strikes were and in what order.......

But this stuff somtimes makes you forget things that arent so imp.......like it being his third fight back against Vera although maybe the second????:smoke01:


CC420


----------



## osmium

"I wonder who hurt me?"

Great quote, he wants to fight Mir because he is a name and Andy can make more money that way. Andy wants fights that will pay him not rematches against guys he destroyed that did shitty buyrates in the first place.


----------



## Negative1

Servatose said:


> We're not talking about a young BJ Penn vs a young Lyoto Machida. As valid as your point may seem, the fact is that we're looking at two fighters in the prime of their lives in the premier organization.
> 
> While BJ may seem like a valid comparison the circumstances are very different, and hardly really would compare to the situation surrounding Anderson vs Mir.
> 
> All I was simply saying originally was that it's easy to say something like "Anderson's picking fighters to best suit his style" but you're forgetting about the fact that he's jumping two weight classes. I don't understand how that takes anything away from how impressive and admirable a decision it is.


Because a guy with mediocre standup in a division 2 classes higher isn't going to be any harder to put away than a guy with great stand up in a smaller weight class.

The fight against Frank will more than likely stay standing and we all know how that is going to end. 



ptw said:


> *Why would he want to fight people he knows he will lose against?*
> 
> Yes, he stands an actual chance at defeating Frank Mir. A small chance I would say, considering all Mir has to do is take Anderson down and just apply his weight and GnP him.
> 
> In a fight, there's always that random factor. Especially with skilled fighters, one slip, and it could mean the match. BJ and GSP could give Kongo a shot, but the chances of them winning are low.


The bold part doesn't make much sense if he is to be called the best fighter in the world. The best fighter in the world should be willing to fight all different types of styles, not just ones he knows he can beat.

The style to beat Anderson Silva is someone with a strong wrestling background. I betcha Tito would give Anderson a better run for his money than Mir would. Frank is not a controller and he will not GnP Anderson, well, not enough to put him away. Anderson can defend submissions, we know this.


----------



## Negative1

Josh Jones III said:


> Agreed all the way. I don't even think he lost to Henderson, and the Machida fight was so long ago that he Franklin may as well have been a different fighter. So the only two losses that really matter are the two to Anderson Silva. Rich is still an elite fighter.
> 
> If Shogun got a title shot for beating washed up Coleman and Liddell, *Franklin should get the next crack at Machida if he beats Vitor. Wins over Wanderelei and Vitor would be more impressive than what Shogun did to earn his shot.*
> 
> Franklin will beat Belfort in a hard-fought, bloody decision very similar to his win over Wandy.


Shogun was considered the best on the Earth at one time. Franklin, was considered the best in the UFC when the MW division was soo shallow, guys like Dave Menne and Quarry were contenders. 

Besides, if Rampage was busy fighting Rashad, who else do you give the shot to? Shogun is the perfect man for the job.

I wouldn't call Rich Elite neither, he has no credible wins on his resume. The best being Silva and even Silva is dropping in stock. 

I would call Rich an A level fighter. Elite is pushing it.


----------



## JonCR96Z

He wants to fight the best then let him fight Lesnar. I'm sure Brock wouldn't mind it at all. 

I love to watch Anderson fight and will watch any of his fights regardless of who it's against, but I'd rather see him kill some of the better LHWs than beat HWs right now.


----------



## Negative1

JonCR96Z said:


> He wants to fight the best then lit him fight Lesnar. I'm sure Brock wouldn't mind it at all.
> 
> I love to watch Anderson fight and will watch any of his fights regardless of who it's against, but I'd rather see him kill some of the better LHWs than beat HWs right now.


This guy is brand new and I'm already starting to like him. 

Should I max out your green rep points already, my boy? :laugh:

Good thinking though. :thumbsup:


----------



## JonCR96Z

Negative1 said:


> This guy is brand new and I'm already starting to like him.
> 
> Should I max out your green rep points already, my boy? :laugh:
> 
> Good thinking though. :thumbsup:


It is what it is. I mean I wanted to see Forrest give him a run for his money. I was shocked to see what I saw. Now I just laugh. Is he that good or just that intimidating to his opponents. 

I think they want Mir because he's not as good at standup as Silva but Mir probably thinks he is. And they probably know Mir had the advantage on the ground. Or maybe they think that's over rated too. Either way they want that fight becuase they want a big win not because they want a good fight. Great managing on Soares' part. Hype big fights, make big money.

Once Nogeria gets pummeled by Lesnar, assuming that fight happens, then let Anderson avenge that loss, not Mir.


----------



## Toxic

I honestly think Franklin could probably give Machida a better fight than most, not gonna call him to win but at least he'll put up an intelligent fight and he is well rounded, Rampage doesn't have a chance, Machida will absolutly pick Jackson apart, hell Forrest did and Machida is much more accurate and harder to hit. Im not even a Machida fan but really Rashad was the guy I considered his toughest test at LHW, I also think if Shogun does manage to beat Machida that Franklin matches up well with Shogun as well. Either way I dont see Franklin becoming LHW champ but the thought of him as contender is definatly no laughing matter.


----------



## swpthleg

Soakked said:


> No way is Silva as good as Mir on the ground. Their technique might be close in skill, but Mir is a heck of a lot stronger. With technique equal, strength has an edge. But I don't see it going to the ground TBH. Mir would get to see the stars if he stands.


Is there any fighter that can stand and trade with Silva and not get demolished? If there is, I'm not aware, or they got lucky.


----------



## smokelaw1

swpthleg said:


> Is there any fighter that can stand and trade with Silva and not get demolished? If there is, I'm not aware, or they got lucky.


Lyoto Machida. 
Wouldn't exactly be "stand and trade" of course, they would have a smart, technical (and probably somewhat boring for the casual fan calling for blood)fascinating stand up battle. 
Theoretically of course. You could never fight your friend....boo friggen hoo.


----------



## swpthleg

You are correct sir. He came to mind, but as you say, you can't fight your friend.


----------



## coldcall420

smokelaw1 said:


> Lyoto Machida.
> Wouldn't exactly be "stand and trade" of course, they would have a smart, technical (and probably somewhat boring for the casual fan calling for blood)fascinating stand up battle.
> Theoretically of course. You could never fight your friend....boo friggen hoo.





swpthleg said:


> You are correct sir. He came to mind, but as you say, you can't fight your friend.


 
Lyoto Machida:

Lyoto's brother, Shinzo, is a Shotokan vice-champion (Australia 2006), losing only to number-one ranked Shotokan master Koji Ogata. Lyoto and Shinzo fought in a Karate Final 10 years ago in which Lyoto gave Shinzo a cheek scar that still exists today.....and you guys dont think he would fight Anderson......


Anderson says they wont fight and its because he knows he wont beat Machida......also Anderson admits this....

Case closed...

CC420:thumbsup:


----------



## joshua7789

coldcall420 said:


> Lyoto Machida:
> 
> Lyoto's brother, Shinzo, is a Shotokan vice-champion (Australia 2006), losing only to number-one ranked Shotokan master Koji Ogata. Lyoto and Shinzo fought in a Karate Final 10 years ago in which Lyoto gave Shinzo a cheek scar that still exists today.....and you guys dont think he would fight Anderson......
> 
> 
> Anderson says they wont fight and its because he knows he wont beat Machida......also Anderson admits this....
> 
> Case closed...
> 
> CC420:thumbsup:



I doubt that anderson really thinks he couldnt beat Machida. I dont doubt that he said that, but doesnt everyone talk up there training partners? Hell, Michael Bispings camp said that he wouldnt have a problem wrestling with Hendo. My point is that good training partners and camps will say damn near anything to hype up one of there fighters.


----------



## NATAS

Negative1

You are seriously under rating Rich Franklin from what I have read in your posts. You bring up his striking and his wrestling which may not be his strongest of points but his conditioning, intelligence and strategy are pretty impressive.


----------



## Breadfan

Silva's got a good chance to lose here. Both are good fighters, Silva is much better, but this is going to end unpredictably.


----------



## Servatose

coldcall420 said:


> Lyoto Machida:
> 
> Lyoto's brother, Shinzo, is a Shotokan vice-champion (Australia 2006), losing only to number-one ranked Shotokan master Koji Ogata. Lyoto and Shinzo fought in a Karate Final 10 years ago in which Lyoto gave Shinzo a cheek scar that still exists today.....and you guys dont think he would fight Anderson......
> 
> 
> Anderson says they wont fight and its because he knows he wont beat Machida......also Anderson admits this....
> 
> Case closed...
> 
> CC420:thumbsup:


When has Anderson ever "admitted he wouldn't beat him"? I think many of us take the quote, "And besides Lyoto would give me a hard time". and blow it up to Anderson saying Lyoto would defeat him. I've seen most of Silva's interviews and can't really recall this. As far as trying to decide who would actually win in a fight between Lyoto and Silva, it's all just speculation.

It's tiring to hear this comparison over and over again. If the fight does happen then we can begin to talk about it. But right now, the fight's not even scheduled. All you're going to get are fans of each fighter saying why they think their favorite fighter is going to win.


----------



## osmium

coldcall420 said:


> Lyoto Machida:
> 
> Lyoto's brother, Shinzo, is a Shotokan vice-champion (Australia 2006), losing only to number-one ranked Shotokan master Koji Ogata. Lyoto and Shinzo fought in a Karate Final 10 years ago in which Lyoto gave Shinzo a cheek scar that still exists today.....and you guys dont think he would fight Anderson......
> 
> 
> Anderson says they wont fight and its because he knows he wont beat Machida......also Anderson admits this....
> 
> Case closed...
> 
> CC420:thumbsup:


Nog doesn't let them fight eachother it isn't just those two it is blackhouse policy you can't fight another person training at blackhouse. So you can come out of your everyone is deathly afraid of Machida delusion.


----------



## coldcall420

joshua7789 said:


> I doubt that anderson really thinks he couldnt beat Machida. *I dont doubt that he said that*, but doesnt everyone talk up there training partners? Hell, Michael Bispings camp said that he wouldnt have a problem wrestling with Hendo. My point is that good training partners and camps will say damn near anything to hype up one of there fighters.


 
He was actually quoted saying it...:thumbsup: Anderson was asked directly if he thought he could beat lyoto Machida and his response was no!!


Anderson has also benefitted from training with Lyoto and his father.....I think he realizes that the fact that Lyoto has trained every discipline and more than Anderson and has benefitted from a life time of his fathers training....

He realizes he may not be able to deal with those slick counter angles....

CC420



osmium said:


> Nog doesn't let them fight eachother it isn't just those two it is blackhouse policy you can't fight another person training at blackhouse. So you can come out of your everyone is deathly afraid of Machida delusion.


 

That was posted a couple days ago as a rumor, and it was subsequently shot down on the same thread.....:thumbsup:

Stay hot though......

Plus, if that were true which it isnt, Dana has both fighters under contract.....he can make them fight if he really wants to.....

CC420


----------



## khoveraki

Just re-watched Nog v Mir...


Mir's striking is seriously slow. Reaaally slow.


I really don't see how anyone thinks he could stand even for two seconds against Silva. And Mir's never tapped anyone with an actual BJJ background.


I really don't see how Mir would win this fight. People say he'll be bigger... but we said that about Forrest. And Mir right now has about 20lbs on Silva. What if Silva comes in at 235lbs? Then how would we say Mir would win?



edit: Just read above posts. I absolutely agree that Silva would get picked apart by Lyoto. And when Silva is just thinking of a way to combat his insane countermovements and explosiveness... Lyoto could take him down and change the fight up.


----------



## coldcall420

Servatose said:


> When has Anderson ever "admitted he wouldn't beat him"? I think many of us take the quote, "And besides Lyoto would give me a hard time". and blow it up to Anderson saying Lyoto would defeat him. I've seen most of Silva's interviews and can't really recall this. As far as trying to decide who would actually win in a fight between Lyoto and Silva, it's all just speculation.
> 
> *It's tiring to hear this comparison over and over again. If the fight does happen then we can begin to talk about it. But right now, the fight's not even scheduled. All you're going to get are fans of each fighter saying why they think their favorite fighter is going to win*.


 
Just curious why you read and post if you dont care??? Just change the channel as they say......:confused02:

CC420


----------



## Stapler

I think Rich is a very good striker. I'm not sure how some people think Rashad is a better striker. I think his striking is over rated and he has never really outstruck anyone with good stand up. Okay, he knocked out an aging Liddell who he had a lot of trouble with before that happened. Liddell basically handed him that knock out. Then Liddell went on to get dominated by Shogun who is more known for his ground game. That takes credit away from Rashads stand up considering Shogun made it look a lot easier to outstrike Liddell. Every other striker Rashad has faced, he has lost in the stand up very clearly. He is just a good striker with knock out power in my opinion. I think Rich would pick him apart in the stand up if they fought. Rashad needs to start using his ground game again.

Rich against Lyoto is another story. Lyoto would beat him in the stand up just like he does everyone else in the light heavyweight division.


----------



## coldcall420

Toxic said:


> I honestly think Franklin could probably give Machida a better fight than most, not gonna call him to win but at least he'll put up an intelligent fight and he is well rounded, Rampage doesn't have a chance, Machida will absolutly pick Jackson apart, hell Forrest did and Machida is much more accurate and harder to hit. Im not even a Machida fan but really Rashad was the guy I considered his toughest test at LHW, I also think if Shogun does manage to beat Machida that Franklin matches up well with Shogun as well. Either way I dont see Franklin becoming LHW champ but the thought of him as contender is definatly no laughing matter.





NATAS said:


> Negative1
> 
> You are seriously under rating Rich Franklin from what I have read in your posts. You bring up his striking and his wrestling which may not be his strongest of points but his conditioning, intelligence and strategy are pretty impressive.


 
The only thing about either of these opinions that I dont agree with is that Rich is no good in that Thai clinch....thats where Anderson rapped him.....

Im not sure other guys wouldnt be able to exploit that.....at least guys with a Muay Thai background....

I think Rich is one of the smartest fighters, but I also know he gameplans and when things dont go the way he plans he somtimes it messes him up.......

CC420


----------



## ptw

Negative1 said:


> The bold part doesn't make much sense if he is to be called the best fighter in the world. The best fighter in the world should be willing to fight all different types of styles, not just ones he knows he can beat.


From what you wrote this is what I got:
I want Silva to fight two weight classes higher than he normally fights at, but against people who are bad match ups for him because people call him the best in the world. 

Anderson Silva doesn't have an advantage against Mir if he fights him. Fighting Mir just gives him an actual shot at winning, I'm sure he knows that if he gets taken down by any heavyweight he is going to get his ass kicked. 



> The style to beat Anderson Silva is someone with a strong wrestling background. I betcha Tito would give Anderson a better run for his money than Mir would. Frank is not a controller and he will not GnP Anderson, well, not enough to put him away. Anderson can defend submissions, we know this.


Tito would get knocked out by Silva. Machida had his way with Tito, and it would only be worse with Silva, who is a much deadlier striker than Machida. Frank is not a controller? He's not a controller *at his weight class* you mean, however he will be fighting Anderson who is a much smaller and weaker opponent that actual heavyweights...Anderson can defend submissions, you're right, from fighters at his weight class whom are around his own strength level...NOT MIR.


----------



## Diokhan

In my opinion we wont be seeing Franklin on top anymore. He used to be hot back in the day when people weren't as versatile as he was (He has always been one of the most versatile guys with tier 1 conditioning).

Now that 90% of tier 1 fighters are good at everything Rich isn't as awesome anymore. Guys like Shogun and Machida got better Striking than Rich does, but on top of that their ground game is much better too. 

Against 1 dimensional guys like Hammill and Lutter his versatility (and conditioning) shined, but against guys like Silva and Hendo he got wrecked because he couldn't come up with a game plan to abuse their weaknesses because they really didn't have any area where he could have beat them. This is pretty much same reason Randy isn't as dominant anymore atleast in heavyweight.


----------



## Servatose

coldcall420 said:


> Just curious why you read and post if you dont care??? Just change the channel as they say......:confused02:
> 
> CC420


Fair enough. I suppose I should've said something like, "I don't think there's a clear winner between Lyoto and Anderson, and acting like there might be is jumping the gun a bit."


----------



## Wookie

For some reason I just don't see Mir winning. He would likely do something stupid like standup with him. Really the only advantage Frank would have is the fact he is a little bigger than Silva.


----------



## Reality Check

Am I the only one who doesnt care for this fight? Mir never impressed me and silva doesnt have a big enough frame to fight most heavy weights. Sure he would probably take mir, but dos santos, gongaza, brock, etc would use their size easily on silva

I just want to see GSP at 185 fight silva at 185.


----------



## Negative1

The only thing Frank is going to have on Silva is a reach advantage by a couple inches and about 20-40 pounds. But the pounds wont mean nothing if he is out cold on the mat from trying to close the distance on Silva.

I think people overlook largely the speed factor Anderson is going to have over Frank. With one punch he can drop Frank. His 40 pounds weight advantage isnt going to mean a thing when that happens.


----------



## swpthleg

Negative1 said:


> The only thing Frank is going to have on Silva is a reach advantage by a couple inches and about 20-40 pounds. But the pounds wont mean nothing if he is out cold on the mat from trying to close the distance on Silva.
> 
> I think people overlook largely the speed factor Anderson is going to have over Frank. With one punch he can drop Frank. His 40 pounds weight advantage isnt going to mean a thing when that happens.


very true. Mir does not have A. Silva's off the heezy timing, IMO.


----------



## DropKick

I don't see any way that Mir could beat him if he tried to stand with Silva. However, Silva has shown in the past that he is at least capable of being taken down. Henderson, Lutter and Marquardt have all taken him down and if Mir could do it he'd have a chance, at least until the round was over and they restarted on the feet.


----------



## coldcall420

I think people are really under estimating Frank.....:dunno:

JMO...

CC420


----------



## swpthleg

coldcall420 said:


> I think people are really under estimating Frank.....:dunno:
> 
> JMO...
> 
> CC420


I'm scared to say what I really think on this issue, due to being a Mir mark.

Who knows, maybe if he took it straight to the ground, incredible things might happen.


----------



## Reality Check

Not underestimating frank, he probably even has a superior ground game. But his stand up offense and defense is so slow and bad I think a HW silva would knock him out cold with ease.


----------



## coldcall420

swpthleg said:


> I'm scared to say what I really think on this issue, due to being a Mir mark.
> 
> Who knows, maybe if he took it straight to the ground, incredible things might happen.


 
Speak your mind....now you got me curious...??:confused02:

CC420


----------



## Negative1

I'm a Frank Mir fan too, he's one of the few HW's I like watching. But, he is outclassed here in every aspect except the ground and the fact that he is a HW. Those are his only 2 advantages which can be negated by either; A - Anderson keeping the fight on the feet and (or) B - Anderson having a speed advantage and KO'ing Frank early.


----------



## LCRaiders

If it were to go to the ground then Mir would have a chance but other than that I wouldn't bet on Mir :/


----------



## Negative1

The X factor in this fight is Mir getting Anderson to the ground. All fights begin on the feet which gives Anderson a significant advantage. An advantage he will take full use of.


----------



## GMK13

anderson has the advantage on the feet, and mir has a slight advantage on the ground. i would still choose anderson.


----------



## LCRaiders

Negative1 said:


> The X factor in this fight is Mir getting Anderson to the ground. All fights begin on the feet which gives Anderson a significant advantage. An advantage he will take full use of.


Agreed, every round begings on the feet so Anderson has every chance to catch Mir..


----------



## SSD

The thing is that you guys give Mir too much credit on the ground. He is good but its not like he is Nogueira. I'd say they are pretty much even on the ground. Yes, Mir broke Sylvia's arm and submitted a green Brock but I'm sure anyone with a BJJ black belt in mma could have done that due to Brock and Sylvia exposing themselves way too much.


----------



## coldcall420

Negative1 said:


> The X factor in this fight is Mir getting Anderson to the ground. All fights begin on the feet which gives Anderson a significant advantage. An advantage he will take full use of.


 
Neg I agree totally wioth your above post, I just thin that X factor your talkin about will be the difference....we agree Mir can get him down? if so then Mir will beat him on the ground....

IMHO...of course.....

CC420:thumbsup:


----------



## khoveraki

I think we have to throw out some ideas about this fight.

Mir and Silva could very well be the same weight in this fight. Mir walks around at 245... Silva walks around at 220 when he was middleweight... Silva puts on some muscle and he's got the same reach (Mir has a technical 1.5" advantage, but Silva knows how to use reach and has longer arms, narrower shoulders), he's already the same height... I don't think size will matter in this fight at all.


Facts: Mir has never submitted someone with a strong BJJ background. Silva has a BJJ blackbelt from the Nog brothers.

Silva is much faster with KO power from more than one place - both legs, both hands, both elbows, both knees (proven). His timing is much better, and he can take a hit.

I don't see how Mir wins this fight. Right now they're both:

Mir: 6'2"
Silva: 6'2"
Mir Reach: 79" - wide shoulders
Silva Reach: 77.6" - narrow shoulders
Mir weight: 245
Silva weight according to DW: 220 

And he's still really skinny at 220, I can definitely see him gaining 10-15lbs, then the size difference would mean nothing. How does Mir win this with no real size difference? He's never tapped someone of Silva's skill level, he's definitely not near the same stand-up level as Silva, and he's not a strong enough wrestler to smother him to a decision.


I don't really like Silva, I think GSP would take him down and control him, I think Lyoto would pick him apart standing up. But against Mir... how do you see Mir winning?


----------



## coldcall420

khoveraki said:


> I think we have to throw out some ideas about this fight.
> 
> Mir and Silva could very well be the same weight in this fight. Mir walks around at 245... Silva walks around at 220 when he was middleweight... Silva puts on some muscle and he's got the same reach (Mir has a technical 1.5" advantage, but Silva knows how to use reach and has longer arms, narrower shoulders), he's already the same height... I don't think size will matter in this fight at all.
> 
> 
> *Mir could come in heavier than 245 he weighed in at 245....those narrow shoulders equal power, that will be more natural for Mir as he is the larger man....*
> 
> Facts: Mir has never submitted someone with a strong BJJ background. Silva has a BJJ black belt from the Nog brothers.
> 
> *Mir has submitted people, who cares that the NOG bros gave Anderson his black belt he has 2 sub wins against Chonan and Henerson.....Mir has 7....that doesn't matter there is no logic to the O.G statement....*
> 
> Silva is much faster with KO power from more than one place - both legs, both hands, both elbows, both knees (proven). His timing is much better, and he can take a hit.
> 
> *Naturally, he's he smaller man that will be his advantage...him being the smaller man counters the points you raised above that i addresssed....*
> 
> I don't see how Mir wins this fight. Right now they're both:
> 
> Mir: 6'2"
> Silva: 6'2"
> Mir Reach: 79" - wide shoulders
> Silva Reach: 77.6" - narrow shoulders
> Mir weight: 245
> Silva weight according to DW: 220
> 
> And he's still really skinny at 220, I can definitely see him gaining 10-15lbs, then the size difference would mean nothing. How does Mir win this with no real size difference? He's never tapped someone of Silva's skill level, he's definitely not near the same stand-up level as Silva, and he's not a strong enough wrestler to smother him to a decision.
> 
> 
> *Mir cant gain weight but Anderson can??? Mir has already stated he wants to get heavier....*
> 
> I don't really like Silva, I think GSP would take him down and control him, I think Lyoto would pick him apart standing up. But against Mir... how do you see Mir winning?


Mir shooting in or pulling guard, possibly sweeping or tossing Anderson and mounting him or subbing him......

CC420:thumbsup:

Everything I told you already....


----------



## SpoKen

This fight, although looking good on paper, isn't that good of a fight. The only way Mir can win is a flash submission, which I don't see happening. I just see a prolonged ass whoopin..


----------



## khoveraki

coldcall420 said:


> Mir could come in heavier than 245 he weighed in at 245....those narrow shoulders equal power, that will be more natural for Mir as he is the larger man....
> 
> *Heavyweights fight at the weight they weigh in... unless you cut to 265. Why would Mir weigh more on fightnight?*
> 
> Mir has submitted people, who cares that the NOG bros gave Anderson his black belt he has 2 sub wins against Chonan and Henerson.....Mir has 7....that doesn't matter there is no logic to the O.G statement....
> 
> *Mir can't submit Silva. His BJJ just isn't high level enough to submit someone of Silva's level. He's never proven he could, so it's ours to assume he can't.*
> 
> Naturally, he's he smaller man that will be his advantage...him being the smaller man counters the points you raised above that i addresssed....
> 
> 
> 
> Mir cant gain weight but Anderson can??? Mir has already stated he wants to get heavier....
> 
> *Mir gaining any more weight will just make him slower and gas easier (re: Vitor Belfort at 205). His frame is already pretty maxed out on size, IMO. Silva on the other hand has tons of speed to spare and he still looks really skinny.*


Silva has tons of ways to beat Mir, Mir has one advantage: size. As we've seen a lot of times before, size against Silva does not matter. But he might not even HAVE that advantage come fight time. I can picture Silva +20lbs and then everything else would be equal, except Silva would be way faster with 8 ways to KO.


----------



## Breadfan

This Thread will be my favorite if Mir wins.


----------



## swpthleg

Don't get your hopes up, everybody, I'd like to see Mir win just so it would be evident that Silva was beatable by someone other than Machida.


----------



## smokelaw1

swpthleg said:


> Don't get your hopes up, everybody, I'd like to see Mir win just so it would be evident that Silva was beatable by someone other than Machida.


Yeah, I don't see Mir doing it, but I wouldn't mind if he did. I'd rather see Anderson fight one of the "new breed" big heavyweights. REALLY give us something to talk about with a size advantage. Or maybe someone who is also a dangerous striker, or sub artist. Gonzaga, maybe. 

I am an Anderson Silva fan...not necessarily the man (I don't know the guy) but as a fighter, and as a champ. He is an artist, and I enjoy watching him ply his trade. I'd like to watch him use it where on paper he is at a real disadvantage. I just can't think of many people who would put him at one. Lesnar, due to sheer size and strength? Fedor?


----------



## coldcall420

*Petruzelli: ‘Now that the UFC is having me back we will see about Kimbo Slice rematch*



> _“I did have respect for you, after our fight you said I was the better fighter. There were 3 times that we could have fought after the Elite(XC) show for you to get a rematch, but you declined all 3 times. Now you go on ESPN making excuses, saying the only reason you lost was that it was sprung on you the last minute and that you can beat me with one hand behind your back!!!! You can go F yourself … maybe now that the UFC is having me back we will see for sure.”_





> Elite XC-slayer, Seth Petruzelli, has a few choice words for Kevin Ferguson, following “Kimbo Slice’s” recent comments on ESPN’s “First Take.” While serving as a last-minute replacement for Ken Shamrock, Petruzelli knocked out the one-time Elite XC posterboy in just 14 seconds one year ago, spelling doom for the struggling promotion, which quickly closed up shop and faded into the night. Now a cast member on The Ultimate Fighter (TUF) 10, Slice will likely look to make his promotional debut on Dec. 5, 2009, at the TUF 10 Finale. Whether or not he’ll face another TUF competitor for the six-figure contract that night remains to be seen, but Petruzelli has recently been chirping that he’s been in touch with UFC matchmaker Joe Silva about a potential return to the Octagon. If that happens, will the fight go another 14 seconds? What say ye?"


 
Intresting, watch him beat Kimbo again I would def laugh my ass off.....

Thoughts????

CC420


----------



## hixxy

Kimbo will be much better second time round.


----------



## DahStoryTella

hixxy said:


> Kimbo will be much better second time round.


co-sign


----------



## jasvll

I'll be laughing if UFC makes this fight.


----------



## demoman993

Not sure why they want Seth, hopefully its not a gimmick as that fight was a joke when elite xc did the fight.


----------



## GMK13

i would like to see this fight just to see if kimbo is for real. but i really dont think kimbo will last very long in the UFC even if he does win the ultimate fighter.


----------



## coldcall420

GMK13 said:


> i would like to see this fight just to see if kimbo is for real. but i really dont think kimbo will last very long in the UFC even if he does win the ultimate fighter.


 

Beating Seth Petrizelli doesnt prove Kimbo is real.....Sorry!!!

CC420:confused03:


----------



## LCRaiders

I would love to see a rematch..

Kimbo wins this time..


----------



## GMK13

coldcall420 said:


> Beating Seth Petrizelli doesnt prove Kimbo is real.....Sorry!!!
> 
> CC420:confused03:


it would prove he learned some type of technique maybe some foot work, who knows but im gonna go back on what i said i dont even think he will win the ultimate fighter.


----------



## coldcall420

khoveraki said:


> Silva has tons of ways to beat Mir, Mir has one advantage: size. As we've seen a lot of times before, size against Silva does not matter. But he might not even HAVE that advantage come fight time. I can picture Silva +20lbs and then everything else would be equal, except Silva would be way faster with 8 ways to KO.


 
This will be my last post as you appear to want to argue as I have already addressed these things and stated what the advantages are.....either read the whole answer I post absorb it and accept it or dont, but stop going in the same circle with size is the only thing he has over Silva.......again and again when legitimate reason have been provided...

Matter of fact here just look above instead of going in circles, but I'll copy and paste it:

Originally Posted by *khoveraki*  
_I think we have to throw out some ideas about this fight._

_Mir and Silva could very well be the same weight in this fight. Mir walks around at 245... Silva walks around at 220 when he was middleweight... Silva puts on some muscle and he's got the same reach (Mir has a technical 1.5" advantage, but Silva knows how to use reach and has longer arms, narrower shoulders), he's already the same height... I don't think size will matter in this fight at all._


_*Mir could come in heavier than 245 he weighed in at 245....those narrow shoulders equal power, that will be more natural for Mir as he is the larger man....*_

_Facts: Mir has never submitted someone with a strong BJJ background. Silva has a BJJ black belt from the Nog brothers._

_*Mir has submitted people, who cares that the NOG bros gave Anderson his black belt he has 2 sub wins against Chonan and Henerson.....Mir has 7....that doesn't matter there is no logic to the O.G statement....*_

_Silva is much faster with KO power from more than one place - both legs, both hands, both elbows, both knees (proven). His timing is much better, and he can take a hit._

_*Naturally, he's he smaller man that will be his advantage...him being the smaller man counters the points you raised above that i addresssed....*_

_I don't see how Mir wins this fight. Right now they're both:_

_Mir: 6'2"_
_Silva: 6'2"_
_Mir Reach: 79" - wide shoulders_
_Silva Reach: 77.6" - narrow shoulders_
_Mir weight: 245_
_Silva weight according to DW: 220 _

_And he's still really skinny at 220, I can definitely see him gaining 10-15lbs, then the size difference would mean nothing. How does Mir win this with no real size difference? He's never tapped someone of Silva's skill level, he's definitely not near the same stand-up level as Silva, and he's not a strong enough wrestler to smother him to a decision._


_*Mir cant gain weight but Anderson can??? Mir has already stated he wants to get heavier....*_

_I don't really like Silva, I think GSP would take him down and control him, I think Lyoto would pick him apart standing up. But against Mir... how do you see Mir winning?_




Since this fight most likely wont happen Im done we can agree to see it differently, but let me ask you one question. Do you train any Martial Arts or Disciplines??? Direct question??

CC420


----------



## Darkwraith

I think that it would be the funniest thing of the year if Seth KOed him yet again lol...oh the weeping and gnashing of teeth we would hear!!  :thumbsup:


----------



## Brainshank

Fight means less than nothing. They're both bums. If either was an any kind of rise or had some wins it might matter, but not right now.


----------



## shatterproof

soooo not interested that i almost fell asleep at the very notion. hah. Let them do it in WEC or free on spike because i aint paying for that shit.


----------



## coldcall420

Brainshank said:


> Fight means less than nothing. They're both bums. If either was an any kind of rise or had some wins it might matter, but not right now.


 
Short sweet and accurate....IMO:thumbsup:

CC420 

Good Post


----------



## ptw

Would be funny to see Seth beat him again, but it wont happen if they fight again. Kimbo would kick his ass, he's changed a lot since that time. A rematch would be dumb, aren't they in different weight classes too?


----------



## swpthleg

Swp Tudo.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

Not that Seth wouldn't have beaten Kimbo, but that was a lucky shot. He was back peddling 10 of those seconds, Kimbo got stunned, and Seth capitalized the remaining 4 seconds. 

If Kimbo has developed a solid base, he could beat Seth. And a W in the rematch would "prove" the first fight was a fluke, and the UFC could push Kimbo slowly and reap a lot of benefits. 

Big potential $ upside to this fight. 

The bad news? Kimbo gets promoted. Ugh.


----------



## footodors

Maybe if kimbo didn't charge in like a horned up rhino, he would've lasted longer!


----------



## Soakked

footodors said:


> Maybe if kimbo didn't charge in like a horned up rhino, he would've lasted longer!


This. Also Kimb didn't get knockout out by a jab, he got caught in the button and got knocked down. While he was on the ground Seth swarmed and overwelmed him not giving him a chance to recover. Kudos for Seth for having the killer instinct. I don't think if a rematch happens that Kimbo will rush him again. That's a rookie mistake that was a hard lesson I am sure, which knocked Kimbo off his high chair thinking that he can bum rush everyone like he's untouchable.


----------



## cdtcpl

A lot more Kimbo support as of late. I think Seth would still win, but mostly because he would just take Kimbo down and beat him on the ground.


----------



## georgie17891

is seth back in ufc now then or what


----------



## Darkwraith

georgie17891 said:


> is seth back in ufc now then or what


Yes. Didn't you read the thread? :thumbsup:


----------



## georgie17891

yeah but on his wiki it doesnt mention it


----------



## Darkwraith

georgie17891 said:


> yeah but on his wiki it doesnt mention it


http://mmajunkie.com/news/16218/kim...ly-ufc-return-wants-rematch-with-ferguson.mma

http://mmamania.com/2009/09/17/seth...e-back-we-will-see-about-kimbo-slice-rematch/

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?sl..._hints_at_UFC_return&prov=mmajunkie&type=lgns


----------



## No_Mercy

MMA fighter he is not, but a street fighter he most definitely is. Kimbo's intriguing to say the least and I like how he portrays himself especially with his family.  He's a lot more humble than most at least. Wish him well. He's the newer generation of Tank Abbott.


----------



## King JLB

Put both of them on the undercard of a fight night.


----------



## coldcall420

*Power struggle’ forces Kenny Florian and Mark Dellagrotte to amicably part ways*



> _“There are no hard feelings. Me and Kenny have been good friends for a long, long time. We did good thing together. I think this is a good decision for both of us. I think he is going to do well, I think the people he is going with are some of the best in the world. It wasn’t a bad break or anything like that, it was just a mutual decision we made in order for us both to move forward. It was necessary for Kenny to move forward with his career and me to move forward as a coach…. I have to stress that I have nothing negative to say towards Kenny or his brother. Its not his brother’s fault, it’s not my fault, it’s just one of things that happens in sports like this. There has been a constant ‘power struggle’ between me and his brother Keith. We never really got along — which is not anybody’s fault, some work well together and some don’t. We worked well together at first but over the last few camps and fights we put together, there were differences and I am just the type of guy that if I can’t steer the ship, if I can’t be the captain, I would prefer not to be onboard…. I am a good leader, a good general, and I think my resume shows that. When I start to feel like my decisions aren’t important or not being taken seriously, it kind of detaches me from the situation. And if cant be really in control and really responsible for the outcome of the fight, I don’t want to be part of it any more…. It is going to be invigorating for Kenny to go and see new trainers, learn new tricks. I am a true teacher of the martial arts and a true friend to Kenny so I encourage him to move on to bigger and better things. Hopefully he is productive and does well from here. I wish him nothing but the best.”_





> Marc Dellagrotte of Sityodtong U.S.A. Muay Thai and Martial Martial Arts — the long-time trainer for two-time former number one lightweight contender, Kenny Florian — talks about the recent rift that caused the Boston-area pair to go their separate ways. Florian is coming off a submission loss to BJ Penn, which marked the second time he has competed for a world title and came up short. It appears that both parties now feel Florian is better off switching up his training regimen to increase his chances of winning in the future. In fact, Florian has already enlisted the services of Firas Zahabi — the trainer perhaps most well known for his work UFC Welterweight Champion Georges St. Pierre — at Tristar in Canada. He’ll need all the help he can get to prepare for his next match against the hard-charging Clay Guida at UFC 107 on Dec. 12. “The Carpenter” has also switched up his training, calling on MMA mastermind Greg Jackson to improve his skills prior to fight night in Memphis. How much impact these decisions will have on their respective performances remains to be seen … care to make a few predictions?


 
Intresting....Kenny's bro is a real asshole IMO and this isnt gonna be better for his career........

CC420:thumbsdown:


----------



## cdtcpl

I wouldn't blame it all on Keith, clearly Mark is accepting part of the blame.


----------



## Toxic

Mark is just a classy guy trying not to rock the boat because some of the other fighters training with him probably have some loyalties to Kenny. 

Question though anybody else think its extremely akward for GSP with him training with KenFlo and Guida before they fight?


----------



## DropKicker

I would not be suprised at all if Keith was to blame here... Kenny needs to get rid of his brother... He's going to ruin Kenny's carreer by always trying to be his right hand fighter & talking hella shit on the side about fighters that Kenny fights(Bj for example)... Keith's a turd!


----------



## coldcall420

Toxic said:


> Mark is just a classy guy trying not to rock the boat because some of the other fighters training with him probably have some loyalties to Kenny.
> 
> Question though anybody else think its extremely akward for GSP with him training with KenFlo and Guida before they fight?


 
Darn sig bets.......

CC420


----------



## Alienspy

I agree. If his brother wants to play head coach all the time , then really whatever camp he falls on next, in a few fights he'll be butting heads with the head coach there too probably. This can go either well for him , considering that gym has an alliance with the fighters from Greg Jackson's team, also has Gsp and i believe Jones. So it opens an avenue of sparring partners to improve from.


----------



## joshua7789

I have a lot of respect for Mark Delagrotte for the way he handled the parting. He seems like an awesome dude and he is obviously a very good coach. Maybe Kenny can go learn from the experts and join team HammerHouse or The Lions Den.


----------



## SpecC

joshua7789 said:


> I have a lot of respect for Mark Delagrotte for the way he handled the parting. He seems like an awesome dude and he is obviously a very good coach. Maybe Kenny can go learn from the experts and join team HammerHouse or The Lions Den.


If he doesn't join one of those and uptakes their special vitamins, I will be so very irritated!


----------



## Pr0d1gy

Kenny is already accepting the fact that he is never going to be the elite fighter he wants to be. The good news is he seems to be a fairly bright and articulate guy, so he has a great career as an MMA broadcaster ahead of him. I could easily see him taking Rogan's spot should Joe ever decide to move on to greener pastures. 

Kenny did a great job on the UFN and the only thing I think he needs to do is go hang out with Rogan and the Diaz brothers and get massively blazed before the fights so he can get that Rogan-esque excitement going. Let's face it, it's not super professional but there is nothing better than hearing the announcer get legit pumped during the fight when something big is happening.


----------



## coldcall420

*UFC 103 medical suspensions and injuries*



> The Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation today issued its list of medical suspensions for UFC 103, which took place on Saturday, September 19 from The American Airlines Center in Dallas.
> It was a wash across the board for “The Lone Star State,” as all 26 fighters were issued medical suspensions for their participation in the “Franklin vs. Belfort” pay-per-view event.
> While everyone got a mandatory time-out, most of the suspensions were only for seven days as a precautionary measure.
> Former PRIDE star Mirko “Cro Cop” Filipovic got the stiffest penalty, getting suspended indefinitely after throwing in the towel against Junior Dos Santos in the third round of their heavyweight affair.
> Other notable suspensions were dished out to Rich Franklin, Martin Kampmann, Frank Trigg, Hermes Franca and Cole Miller — all of whom were on the receiving end of TKO stoppages.
> Each of those fighters will join Steve Lopez on the sidelines until October 20. Lopez injured his shoulder in his UFC debut against Jim Miller, bringing a halt to the contest at just under a minute of the second round.
> Here is the complete list of UFC 103 medical suspensions:
> 
> Vitor Belfort — suspended until Sept. 27
> Rich Franklin — suspended until Oct. 20
> *Belfort defeated Franklin via TKO*
> Junior Dos Santos — suspended until Sept. 29
> Mirko “Cro Cop” Filipovic — suspended indefinitely
> *Dos Santos defeated Filipovic via submission (surrender)*
> Paul Daley — suspended until Sept. 27
> Martin Kampmann — suspended until Oct. 20
> *Daley defeated Kampmann via TKO (strikes)*
> Josh Koscheck — suspended until Sept. 27
> Frank Trigg — suspended until Oct. 20
> *Koscheck defeated Trigg via TKO (strikes)
> *
> Tyson Griffin — suspended until Sept. 27
> Hermes Franca — suspended until Oct. 20
> *Griffin defeated Franca via TKO (strikes)*
> Efrain Escudero — suspended until Sept. 27
> Cole Miller — suspended until Oct. 20
> *Escudero defeated Miller via TKO (strikes)
> *
> Tomasz Drwal — suspended until Sept. 27
> Drew McFedries — suspended until Sept. 27
> *Drwal defeated McFedries via submission (rear naked choke)*
> Jim Miller — suspended until Sept. 27
> Steve Lopez — suspended until Oct. 20
> *Miller defeated Lopez via TKO (injury)*
> Nick Lentz — suspended until Sept. 29
> Rafaello Oliveira — suspended until Sept. 29
> *Lentz defeated Oliveira via unanimous decision
> *
> Rick Story — suspended until Sept. 27
> Brian Foster — suspended until Sept. 27
> *Story defeated Foster via submission (arm-triangle choke)*
> Eliot Marshall — suspended until Sept. 29
> Jason Brilz — suspended until Sept. 29
> *Marshall defeated Brilz via unanimous decision*
> Vladimir Matyushenko — suspended until Sept. 29
> Igor Pokrajac — suspended until Sept. 29
> *Matyushenko defeated Pokrajac via unanimous decision*
> Rafael Dos Anjos — suspended until Sept. 29
> Rob Emerson — suspended until Sept. 29
> *Dos Anjos defeated Emerson via unanimous decision*
> Just a quick reminder: Fighters often return to action much quicker once doctors give them the green light. The lengthy suspensions are just a precaution in most cases.


CC420


----------



## Wookie

Emerson should have got more time, his leg was jacked from all those kicks.


----------



## coldcall420

*UFC Quick Quote: Rashad Evans will fight Rampage Jackson for free*



> _“Rampage is a very emotional fighter, a very emotional person, and he just let his emotions take over his rational thinking. I think that him and Dana White just probably need to talk it out, and get past it. I think it’s just a breakdown in communication. Dana’s the kind of guy who is going to say what is on his mind, maybe without thinking it through all the way, before he said. Rampage is a hothead, as well. You get two tempers like that, go at each other like that, it makes the situation hard to work through. I’d be disappointed not to fight him. It would be a good fight, a fun fight, but mostly because he talked trash. He got me really angry, and I want to fight him just because of that alone. It’s a fight that people want to see. You get your mind wrapped up, and you get your mind so psyched up about fighting a fighter, and then it doesn’t happen, it’s disappointing. That’s why I hate making a fight personal. At the end of the day, we’re professional athletes, and we get paid to do a job. But when you get to fight someone you really want to fight, that’s like a bonus. You’d almost do it for free…. I would have loved to punch him in the face for free.” _​– Rashad Evans — the man caught in the middle of the controversy between UFC President Dana White and Quinton “Rampage” Jackson — tells CageWriter.com that at this point he’d fight the former light heavyweight champion for free if he could. Evans and Jackson are opposing coaches on this season of The Ultimate Fighter (TUF) who were supposed to settle their grudge match in the UFC 107 main event at the FedEX Forum in Memphis, Tenn., on Dec. 12. But that bout, which would have been in front of Jackson’s hometown crowd, was recently postponed when Jackson accepted the role as B.A. Barracus for the “A-Team” feature film that is currently in production. Then the fight was scrapped altogether when Jackson yesterday announced via his personal Web site that he was leaving the fight game indefinitely because of White’s less than supportive comments regarding his decision. That now leaves Evans in the lurch, but perhaps hungrier than ever to get his hands on Jackson once and for all. Will it happen when the dust settles or will Evans move on to bigger and better things sooner rather than later?


 

I think Dana and Rampage are gonna work it out and rampage is having a bitch fit and needs his meds....

CC420


----------



## JasonJ

Rashad is such an idiot. It's all about the money. I won't do a job for free, and if he had a brain, he wouldn't fight for free.


----------



## Redrum

JasonJ said:


> Rashad is such an idiot. It's all about the money. I won't do a job for free, and if he had a brain, he wouldn't fight for free.


Listen, I don't think Rashad is an idiot. In fact, so far, he seems to be the one thinking things through on the reality show, and he has my respect.


----------



## LCRaiders

Why would anyone want to get KO'ed for free 

War Rampage :thumbsup:


----------



## coldcall420

*Diego Sanchez About UFC Bout With BJ Penn, Cutting Weight*

http://www.mmanews.com/ufc/Diego-Sanchez-About-UFC-Bout-With-BJ-Penn-Cutting-Weight.html




> I _just had a amazing wrestiling training with olympic badass Bob Anderson he's this older wrestling coach hes 67 and he is one of the best he coached __Dan Henderson__ to the silver and Rulon Gardner to the gold.... and im very blessed to cross paths ...He has shown me greco before that i was more of a freestyle guy. more importantly Bob is a leader for GOD...... _
> 
> _... _
> 
> _im feeling good at 185 and im not chuby either so looks like i will drop ten lbs this months and 5 in octeber then finish the water eight in the sauna....... i love cutting weight and getting in that sauna.... its a mental challange i almost seen god in the sauna before the guida fight i was 172 4 days before the fight and cut the weight between the 4 days,,,, but those last 2 pounds i was in the sauna holding saulos hand praying for god to take the weight off and when we were done praying. i checked my weight and it was .4 over i was like yes yes yes thank you jesus..... _
> 
> _I seen on bjpenn.com that penn's __walking__ at 168 man thats light ;0 _
> _well it feels good to be at the top of the division big strong and in shape.... i hired a new strenth and conditioning coach his name is steve maxwell he's a bjj blackbelt and my first workout with him i fell in love with his system... _
> 
> _... _
> 
> _FOR ALL THE PEOPLE WHO TAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS THANK YOU. _
> _FOR THE FANS THANK YOU, TRAINING IS GOING GOOD, I PROMISE TO FIGHT WITH EVERYTHING I HAVE MIND BODY SPIRIT ........ _
> 
> _I NEED __BELTS__'SSSSSSSSSSSS YES WITH An S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!_


 
I would love to see Diego pull this off but I dont think he's gonna be able to beat BJ......not yet:thumbsup:

CC420


----------



## G0K0S

Quality spelling and grammar lol.


----------



## putmeonhold

I for one think that Diego is going to give BJ one giant assload of a fight. When you think about it there are almost no examples of a fight that Diego has had that is not memorable in some way, be it winning the TUF six figure contract, receiving a couple of fight of the night honours, not to mention a few fights on the Greates 100 list, and finally only 2 losses via decision on his record. BJ is one of my all time favorite fighters and IMHO is the best p4p fighter in the world. Diego is truely "The Nightmare" and as much as I love BJ, I'm going to back up Diego and put my money on him. Win or lose this is going to be a fight for the ages, an epic clash of titans for the history books.


----------



## Halebop

HAAHAHAHAHAHA Go Diego! He is going to start catching shit like the ground for this post just look at all those Yes's! YES YES YES! :thumb02: 

I freakin love Diego Sanchez I hope he doesnt try and become a Greco Hero in this fight. I respect that he was taught a thing or two but for Penn he needs to go with what has been worked before. I have no doubt he will make it 5 rounds and it sounds like he will be bigger than BJ but I hope he isn't over confident. BJ sucks the blood of fighters who are used to being the billy bad ass of their division. 

Personally I think BJ Penn has been prepping for Diego since GSP beat him the second time. 

This will be one hell of a fight.


----------



## coldcall420

Yeah it came from his myspace blog...dude fights not spells, he prob tweets too so it must get tiring......


----------



## LCRaiders

Sanchez won't beat Penn. Penn is too skilled in every aspect of the game. BJ smashes Diego for sure :thumbsup:


----------



## joshua7789

What Diego and the rest of the lightweights in the world dont seem to understand about Bj is that you arent going to wear him down with wrestling at 155lbs. Matt Hughes and GSP had a hell of a time getting this guy down at welterweight until he gassed out. Bj wont be gassing at lightweight. Bj Penn probably has the best takedown defense in mma and if you do get him to the ground then you have to deal a world class jiu jitsu black belt. Bj may not be the best fighter in the world, but he is one of the most complete.


----------



## YOURMOMWASHERE

Wow and I thought I was bad at spelling haha but he's a fighter not an english teacher.

I see this fight going to distance and being a war. I don't know why any of you think one fighter will DOMINATE the other, they make for a good match.


----------



## LCRaiders

joshua7789 said:


> What Diego and the rest of the lightweights in the world dont seem to understand about Bj is that you arent going to wear him down with wrestling at 155lbs. Matt Hughes and GSP had a hell of a time getting this guy down at welterweight until he gassed out. Bj wont be gassing at lightweight. Bj Penn probably has the best takedown defense in mma and if you do get him to the ground then you have to deal a world class jiu jitsu black belt. Bj may not be the best fighter in the world, but he is one of the most complete.


Agreed, BJ's takedown defense is incredible. Although Hughes and GSP had thier way with Penn they were much larger that him. And even though Sanchez is a rather large LW, he won't be able to throw BJ around like they did at WW..


----------



## wukkadb

This is good for Diego, because his wrestling is the weakest part of his game IMO. I still see him losing this fight, though.


----------



## Servatose

I don't see any way for Diego to win. His striking is too wild and his ground game isn't technical enough. He's claiming to improve his Greco, but we all knew that would be necessary to fight against BJ. I'm with the person who said he's not ready for BJ yet at this stage in his career. He needs to sharpen a lot of things before he can hope to beat someone as vicious and technically sound as BJ.


----------



## Wookie

Hey if Rashad would fight for free then let him. Works out for everyone. He could just give Rampage his purse because that's what Rampage obviously cares about most, fight which is what he, Dana, and the fans want most. It's a win win.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

LCRaiders said:


> Why would anyone want to get KO'ed for free
> 
> War Rampage :thumbsup:


Agreed!


----------



## WouldLuv2FightU

I can't wait for this fight it's gonna be beautiful. I wanted to see it back when they both were fighting at 170 but at 155 it doesn't get any better than this. Diego is a beast and Penn is my favorite fighter and this fight should be one of the best in UFC history in theory. I wouldn't be surprised if Diego won but I'm not betting on it.


----------



## M.C

B.J Penn is going to wreck Diego's shit. Diego is one of the top guys in that weight class right now in the UFC, but he's going to run into a monster come fight night, and this monster wants to prove he's the best 155 guy out there, no questions asked.

Damn good fight, but Diego is in trouble.


----------



## michelangelo

It seems like every UFC division champ is untouchable:

BJ, GSP, Anderson, Lyoto, Brock.


----------



## name goes here

I'm going with BJ. Guida gave Diego some probs, and Diego won't get to outbox BJ like he did Guida. BJ doesn't go for takedowns much, but I still think it will be his choice if things stay up or go down.


----------



## DKent

name goes here said:


> I'm going with BJ. Guida gave Diego some probs, and Diego won't get to outbox BJ like he did Guida. BJ doesn't go for takedowns much, but I still think it will be his choice if things stay up or go down.


Ok. Even if he does take him down which I HIGHLY doubt, then what will he do? Pass his guard and GnP him? I dont think so..I dont see Diego passing his guard he couldnt pass Fitch's guard and IMO BJ's is better with more lethal tools at his disposal. 

So what's his next option? A kickboxing match? He will get his a** tore out the frame. I like Diego too I just dont see how he can win this...The whole applying pressure on him just doesnt work in the LW division and after 4 rounds with Florian his conditioning seemed fine.


----------



## joshua7789

michelangelo said:


> It seems like every UFC division champ is untouchable:
> 
> BJ, GSP, Anderson, Lyoto, Brock.


Kind of a bummer, isnt it?


----------



## Uchaaa

I will bet on diego. He is the only one in the lw that has a chance against penn imo. If I dont bet on diege, I cant bet on everyone else.


----------



## name goes here

DKent said:


> Ok. Even if he does take him down which I HIGHLY doubt, then what will he do? Pass his guard and GnP him? I dont think so..I dont see Diego passing his guard he couldnt pass Fitch's guard and IMO BJ's is better with more lethal tools at his disposal.
> 
> So what's his next option? A kickboxing match? He will get his a** tore out the frame. I like Diego too I just dont see how he can win this...The whole applying pressure on him just doesnt work in the LW division and after 4 rounds with Florian his conditioning seemed fine.


*Facepalm*

Noob

You reversed my post predictions, then argued against them back to my original predictions.


----------



## Toxic

This fight is gonna be more one sided that the Florian fight, honestly I don't get the Sancez love, I thought Kenny was being extremely overated but at least Kenny has decent stand up with some techniqu, Sanchez basically has the Chris Leben brawl style and will find it completly ineffective against BJ unless he intends to try and catch BJ's fist with his mouth that is. Wrestling well Guida out wrestled Sanchez so we can make a pretty good assumption that if Guida is the better wrestler and Guida isn't some phenomenal GSP like wrestler than obviously Sanchez isn't either. Diego will not dictate where this fight takes place and that leaves us to Diego's ground game, wait BJ is a world champion black belt with one of the sickest ground games in the sport and well, Sanchez isn't any of those things but he can swing like a wild man off his back.. so could Gilbert Yvel. Fact is Sanchez is not only not a threat to BJ but honestly he isn't even on the level he should be to earn a shot. Maynard. Sherk, Florian and Edgar would all destroy him.


----------



## Mckeever

Toxic said:


> This fight is gonna be more one sided that the Florian fight, honestly I don't get the Sancez love, I thought Kenny was being extremely overated but at least Kenny has decent stand up with some techniqu, Sanchez basically has the Chris Leben brawl style and will find it completly ineffective against BJ unless he intends to try and catch BJ's fist with his mouth that is. Wrestling well Guida out wrestled Sanchez so we can make a pretty good assumption that if Guida is the better wrestler and Guida isn't some phenomenal GSP like wrestler than obviously Sanchez isn't either. Diego will not dictate where this fight takes place and that leaves us to Diego's ground game, wait BJ is a world champion black belt with one of the sickest ground games in the sport and well, Sanchez isn't any of those things but he can swing like a wild man off his back.. so could Gilbert Yvel. Fact is Sanchez is not only not a threat to BJ but honestly he isn't even on the level he should be to earn a shot. Maynard. Sherk, Florian and Edgar would all destroy him.


Ever since the shit you talked about Paul Daley pre fight, i just completely ignore what you have to say. You are so biased against or towards a fighter, its unreal.

I have BJ winning this fight, no doubt, but you act as if Diego doesn't stand the slightest chance, he is going to make it a war and I think it will go the distance. Sanchez did start off brawling in the guida fight, but it was quite clear that he was landing some really accurate, precise strikes in there, then there was the sick head kick which was timed and executed perfectly. Give the guy some credit.

It took BJ 4 rounds to finish florian (although it did feel like he could of finished the fight at any given time) and Diego is going to put a lot more pressure on Penn and just keep coming, he's got a good chin on him.

Diego is a very well rounded fighter, its clear his stand up has improved vastly, his ground game is solid, he's extremely aggressive, great cardio and has the ability to finish fights. Plus he's a naturally bigger guy than Penn. To say he doesn't stand a chance in this fight is just stupid really, its going to be a great fight.


----------



## H-Deep

Sorry mr Sanchez but Bj is in a different class to every single 155 fighter out there. I say this fight goes no longer than 3 rounds. 

This is not to Sanchez isn't a great fighter because he is but Bj is in a different league, much like gsp + silva are at there respected weight classes


----------



## Servatose

Mckeever said:


> I have BJ winning this fight, no doubt, but you act as if Diego doesn't stand the slightest chance, he is going to make it a war and I think it will go the distance. Sanchez did start off brawling in the guida fight, but it was quite clear that he was landing some really accurate, precise strikes in there, then there was the sick head kick which was timed and executed perfectly. Give the guy some credit.
> 
> It took BJ 4 rounds to finish florian (although it did feel like he could of finished the fight at any given time) and Diego is going to put a lot more pressure on Penn and just keep coming, he's got a good chin on him.
> 
> Diego is a very well rounded fighter, its clear his stand up has improved vastly, his ground game is solid, he's extremely aggressive, great cardio and has the ability to finish fights. Plus he's a naturally bigger guy than Penn. To say he doesn't stand a chance in this fight is just stupid really, its going to be a great fight.


As a Penn fan, really the only thing that has me concerned is Diego's explosive speed. He dropped and nearly TKO'ed Guida with some powerful shots. But honestly, Diego was going pit for pat with Guida. He threw caution to the wind in many parts of that fight. If that isn't indicative of a brawling type striking style, I'm not sure what is. BJ has crisp and technical boxing that he's used to pick apart the likes of Sean Sherk, Joe Stevenson, and there are plenty more. I don't think it's at all unreasonable either to say Diego probably isn't going to be too eager to take BJ to the ground. That being said, I also believe Diego won't be as aggressive on the feet as he was against Guida. The last thing he wants is BJ to be on top of him with a take down. Realistically, to me, it seems like BJ has the advantage wherever this fight goes.


----------



## coldcall420

H-Deep said:


> Sorry mr Sanchez but Bj is in a different class to every single 155 fighter out there. I say this fight goes no longer than 3 rounds.
> 
> This is not to Sanchez isn't a great fighter because he is but Bj is in a different league, much like gsp + silva are at there respected weight classes





Servatose said:


> As a Penn fan, really the only thing that has me concerned is Diego's explosive speed. He dropped and nearly TKO'ed Guida with some powerful shots. But honestly, Diego was going pit for pat with Guida. He threw caution to the wind in many parts of that fight. If that isn't indicative of a brawling type striking style, I'm not sure what is. BJ has crisp and technical boxing that he's used to pick apart the likes of Sean Sherk, Joe Stevenson, and there are plenty more. I don't think it's at all unreasonable either to say Diego probably isn't going to be too eager to take BJ to the ground. That being said, I also believe Diego won't be as aggressive on the feet as he was against Guida. The last thing he wants is BJ to be on top of him with a take down. Realistically, to me, it seems like BJ has the advantage wherever this fight goes.


 

I love them both but Diego for all the above mentioned lacks power and you might see BJ out box him.....

CC420


----------



## enufced904

I think Sanchez is gonna suffer his first submission loss.


----------



## putmeonhold

H-Deep said:


> This is not to Sanchez isn't a great fighter because he is but Bj is in a different league, much like gsp + silva are at there respected weight classes


The problem is, which BJ is going to show up? The fat out of shape gas in 30 seconds BJ or the BJ we saw againsed Kenflo. BJ was plenty motivated for the Kenflo fight because there was a score to settle and he trained his ass off for it. Will he be motivated for the Sanchez fight --> at this point, who knows.


----------



## H-Deep

putmeonhold said:


> The problem is, which BJ is going to show up? The fat out of shape gas in 30 seconds BJ or the BJ we saw againsed Kenflo. BJ was plenty motivated for the Kenflo fight because there was a score to settle and he trained his ass off for it. Will he be motivated for the Sanchez fight --> at this point, who knows.


Very true dude, but then since bj has gone back to 155 we have seen the dominant bj show up for every fight. He dominated Stevenson, Pulver, Sherk and looked pretty convincing in his win against ken flo. I personally think we will see the best Bj ever for this fight as i genuinely believe he wants everyone to see how good he actually is. What's the best way to showcase your skills, by making great fighters look mediocre and that's what i personally believe he will do


----------



## Toxic

Mckeever said:


> Ever since the shit you talked about Paul Daley pre fight, i just completely ignore what you have to say. You are so biased against or towards a fighter, its unreal.


 Quoting me is not the best way to illustrate how you "ignore" me :dunno:

I did eat crow on that one, won't be the first person or the last one, but I don't mind eating crow when Im wrong hell I'm not even gonna hide behind what could easily be considered a questionable stoppage (Kampmann was on his way out).



> I have BJ winning this fight, no doubt, but you act as if Diego doesn't stand the slightest chance, he is going to make it a war and I think it will go the distance. Sanchez did start off brawling in the guida fight, but it was quite clear that he was landing some really accurate, precise strikes in there, then there was the sick head kick which was timed and executed perfectly. Give the guy some credit.
> 
> It took BJ 4 rounds to finish florian (although it did feel like he could of finished the fight at any given time) and Diego is going to put a lot more pressure on Penn and just keep coming, he's got a good chin on him.
> 
> Diego is a very well rounded fighter, its clear his stand up has improved vastly, his ground game is solid, he's extremely aggressive, great cardio and has the ability to finish fights. Plus he's a naturally bigger guy than Penn. To say he doesn't stand a chance in this fight is just stupid really, its going to be a great fight.


I honestly don't think Diego has a chance, his "improved" striking does not impress me at all he swings wildly and leaves his chin wide open.His ground game may be solid but BJ's is phenomenal, Aggressive? Yeah so was Chris Leben and he pushed the pace when he fought Anderson Silva how did that work out for him? Fact is that that BJ's striking is accurate and precise but also powerful which makes it that much more precise. Really the only advantage that Sanchez should have is cardio and judging by BJ's last fight it would appear his new conditioning program is doing wonders for him so I don't see it being an issue even if Diego does manage to survive into the later rounds. I don't dislike Diego, I think he is extremely entertaining to watch and I would absolutely love to see him and Guida go at it again but he won't win this fight but because his tools are simply not on the same level as Penn's.


----------



## Halebop

Hey without insulting the poster who went after Toxic for being wrong against Daley I just want to voice that eating crow is part of being a good contributer on this site and its really not cool to bust balls for someone having to eat crow. Why do I say this? Coz when I analyze fights I sit at the table and put a bib on. Come Saturday night Im either eating steak or crow...usually steak but the fact is I appreciate a post that that doesn't waffle that ends in "It could go either way" yada yada. I thought it was shitty when I saw all the other posters ribbing Toxic for his wrong pick. But people can do what they want but if you think someone's full of shit (I am plenty) then make a sig bet. Don't ignore their opinion for eternity for making a wrong prediction that happened to be biased...its called being a fan. 

OK, Someone posted and reminded me Kenny made it 4 rounds...so true! That gives me more Diego hope, YES YeS YES!


----------



## DKent

name goes here said:


> *Facepalm*
> 
> Noob
> 
> You reversed my post predictions, then argued against them back to my original predictions.


Lol my bad. It was late and I was half sleep. Go BJ!


----------



## coldcall420

*Teammate vs teammate? Fine with Tyson Griffin — if it’s for the lightweight title*

http://mmamania.com/2009/09/25/team...son-griffin-if-its-for-the-lightweight-title/



> _“As far as fighting teammates, it’s kind of an unwritten rule that it happens for titles. If Gray got the title shot, I’d be happy for him and I’d help him train for it. I’d train with him to win. The weight division is stacked. There’s tons of other guys that we can fight if the title’s not on the line. It did feel great (to end a fight by stoppage) but I’m sure that monkey will come right back as soon as a fight goes to another decision.”_​Embattled UFC lightweight Tyson Griffin finally gets himself a finish inside the Octagon after knocking off Hermes Franca at UFC 103 on Sept. 19 in Dallas. The talented Xtreme Couture product is the winner of a staggering five “Fight of the Night” bonuses but had gone to a decision in seven straight bouts dating back to 2006, taking heat from fans and media alike in his inability to seal the deal. Does last week’s stoppage over the purple-haired pop tart signify the arrival of the 14-2 Griffin as a serious title contender? Or will he make a “decision” to lurk in the shadows for another year? One thing’s for sure, he has no problem taking on a teammate if that’s the only thing that stands between him and the gold.


 
I posted on another thread he said this and KOS was sitting next to him agreeing, so why doesnt KOS call out team mates????

CC420


----------



## BWoods

I think the only reason KOS hasn't faced teammates or the question hasn't come up is because Welterweight (and Lightweight for that matter) is a totally stacked division. There are so many guys with so much talent that having teammates face eachother doesn't really cross Joe Silva's mind when making fights. I agree with Tyson in that, if its for a title shot or for the title itself, I would have no problem fighting a teammate.

For me, I would gladly fight my own cousin if it would give either one of us a title shot. Though he wants to go into boxing and I want to get into MMA. (I'm being a little lazy at the moment though D=)


----------



## coldcall420

*TRUTH: Trigg Dropped, Readded Over EA Video Game Involvement?*

http://www.mmanews.com/ufc/Trigg-Dropped-Readded-Over-EA-Video-Game-Involvement.html

_



The real reason Frank Trigg was dropped from his UFC contract and then quickly undropped? Dana White was furious when he found out Trigg was a part of the upcoming EA Sports MMA video

Click to expand...

_


> _game__. White had decreed no one who had signed with EA, in competition with his own UFC games, would ever fight for his promotion.
> 
> When he found out about Trigg, White was livid. Cooler heads prevailed, but look for Trigg to get another tough fight. If he loses again, he's gone._






I love when the truth comes out......:thumbsup:

Frank tryin to get that extra money...

CC420


----------



## LCRaiders

Lol, hey no one can ever have enough money..

I support Trigg :thumbsup:


----------



## coldcall420

*Lyoto Machida vs Shogun Rua UFC 104 video promo*







CC420


----------



## Kodiac26170

Trigg vs Serra, I wanna see that one. 

Dana, the truth will set you free.


----------



## Seperator88

isn't randy in that game too, but randy does whatever he wants, hey does anyone know why randy wasn't in undisputed?


----------



## kay_o_ken

Seperator88 said:


> isn't randy in that game too, but randy does whatever he wants, hey does anyone know why randy wasn't in undisputed?


i think its something to do with him being retired when it was made


----------



## jasvll

Well, it is posted on a website, so it must be true.


----------



## Simmi

I swear Dana would kill his cat if he thought it would f**k with the EA videogame.


----------



## MagiK11

I really don't like how Dana gets all emotional and makes these kind of statements. Wish he would keep his mouth shut a bit because these days he's really starting to annoy me, even though I know he's done A LOT for MMA throughout the years.


----------



## MagiK11

coldcall420 said:


> http://mmamania.com/2009/09/26/lyoto-machida-vs-shogun-rua-ufc-104-video-promo/
> 
> Sorry fellas I can embed for some reason.....
> 
> CC420


Error 404 - Not Found

Can't see it even if I go to the site.


----------



## N1™

personally i like this one the best


----------



## coldcall420

MagiK11 said:


> Error 404 - Not Found
> 
> Can't see it even if I go to the site.


 
Fixed it....Sorry guys......Norway I think you'll like...." Tha drago" is the champion...translates to...."The Dragon is the Champion"....LOl I love him.....

CC20:thumbsup:


EDIT: Nevermind...I just watched yours.....way better.....raise01:


----------



## Servatose

Can't wait for this fight.


----------



## neoseeker

I can't wait either, I'm going with Shogun on this one.


----------



## jeffmantx

I can't wait Machida 2nd round gnp you heard it from me.


----------



## LCRaiders

This is going to be one interesting fight for sure!


----------



## VolcomX311

N1™ said:


> personally i like this one the best


Epic promo


----------



## coldcall420

*Herschel Walker: I can beat any TUF 10 heavyweight*



> _“Who ever made [UFC President Dana White] the guy to measure athletic talent? I don’t think (he) knows anything about athletic talent. He knows about fighters, which is different, but I will say this: He’s running a show right now with heavyweights and I’ll put dimes to donuts, all the heavyweights on his show right now I will beat. That’s pretty easy to say. I always tell people put their money where their mouth is. Dana says I’m so old? Why doesn’t he step into the ring with me?”_​Recent Strikeforce acquisition and former NFL great Herschel Walker reacts to criticism from UFC President Dana White regarding the NFL great making a transition to mixed martial arts when he debuts for the San Jose-based promotion in January 2010. Walker, a Taekwondo black belt, maintains his athleticism will propel him to great heights — and already puts him above any Ultimate Fighter (TUF) 10 heavyweight. Is the 47-year-old running back merely posturing? Or does Walker believe that all he needs is some decent chop-socky and a 40-yard dash to make it in the fight game? I guess we’ll find out early next year. Anyone want to take a stab in the comments section on who his first opponent will be?


 
Im putting this in the UFC section cuz it sems like it should be here.....

Anyways enjoy the laugh....I think he should fight Jose' Canseco..

CC420:thumbsup:

CC420


----------



## KOMIRKO

At his age, I'd be surprised if he could successfully beat his meat.


----------



## DropKick

He should fight LL Cool J.


----------



## T-Pain

DropKick said:


> He should fight LL Cool J.












say what?


----------



## cdtcpl

KOMIRKO said:


> At his age, I'd be surprised if he could successfully beat his meat.


:laugh: +rep


----------



## joshua7789

He also gets cheap insurance and a discount when he goes to the movies.


----------



## Fieos

I wouldn't discredit him honestly. Not saying he's stellar but this TUF season so far has been crap.


----------



## JonCR96Z

Fieos said:


> I wouldn't discredit him honestly. Not saying he's stellar but this TUF season so far has been crap.


For realz. Saying that he could beat a TUF season 10 fighter doesn't really say anything.


----------



## Rockstar189

too bad he wasn't on the show too

would of been a good test

I personally think that his karate training has gone to his head and he will re-think his decision after he experiences the ground


----------



## Toxic

I doubt he could beat Kimbo never mind anyone else.


----------



## DAMURDOC

He does already have a mouth piece.


----------



## marcthegame

*Herschel Walker challenges Dana to a fight & thinks he can beat “Kimbo”*

To the casual sports fan, Herschel Walker's appearance on today's edition of "ESPN First Take" was probably a bit confusing.

On ESPN2's daily morning sports show, the 47-year-old NFL veteran championed mixed martial arts and made some boastful claims about his talent level – but forgot to mention a single time that he had been signed by Strikeforce.

Instead, the conversation mostly focused on the UFC and Walker's open challenge to fight company president Dana White.

Earlier this month Strikeforce announced that Walker, the 1982 Heisman Award winner, had been signed to the organization and would make his MMA debut as a heavyweight in early 2010. However, "ESPN First Take" host Jay Crawford never made mention of Strikeforce and simply said that Walker was making his "MMA" debut. The aspiring fighter never mentioned it either.

Sadly, it was a missed opportunity for Walker and Strikeforce to plug an organization that's built a lot of momentum in recent months with a new CBS deal, solid roster additions and a couple successful shows.

Instead, Walker focused on White's recent criticism of the signing, as well as "The Ultimate Fighter 10."

Walker said he had to give White and UFC co-owners Frank and Lorenzo Fertitta their "props" for bringing the sport "mainstream." But he said that while White may be able to evaluate fighters, the UFC executive can't do the same with general athletes.

Walker then made his biggest claim of the interview when talking about the current heavyweights-only season of "The Ultimate Fighter."

"I'll put dimes to donuts all the heavyweights on the show right now I will beat," Walker said of the cast, which includes a former IFL champion, three former UFC fighters, four NFL vets and Kevin "Kimbo Slice" Ferguson. "And that's pretty easy to say."

But the challenges didn't stop there.

"Dana always tells people to put their money where your mouth is," Walker said. "And I'll tell Dana that since he says I'm so old, why doesn't he step in the ring with me because he's been practicing (MMA), as well?"

Walker said all the money could go to charity, which he's doing with his Strikeforce fight purses. The funds go to Project Turn Around (also known as Alternative Community Development Services), a community-enrichment nonprofit organization.

http://mmajunkie.com/news/16337/herschel-walker-challenges-dana-white-to-fight-forgets-to-plug-strikeforce-on-espn2.mma


----------



## Holy9

The intriguing thing about Walker's statement about fighting White is this: When did White ever say he could beat him in a MMA fight? White said Walker was too old to start fighting. He didn't question his athletic ability or say anything about being better at MMA than him. So that's a pretty stupid statement by Walker.


----------



## vandalian

Ah yes, the good old Challenge Dana White Marketing Plan.

Worked real well for Tom Atencio, didn't it?


----------



## HexRei

Right. Unless it involves running a few dozen yards and catching a ball, I doubt he's going to be too successful.


----------



## BWoods

Walker probably didn't mention Strikerforce because he couldn't. ESPN is a partner with the UFC. Of course they aren't going to put a rival over. The only reason Hershal was even on the show was to talk about his MMA career.

I haven't seen any training footage of him so I can't comment on his skills. I remember someone mentioning that Walker has a black belt in Tae-Kwon-Do or something. Shows he has dedication to martial arts and I'm sure being a football player he can pick up wrestling pretty easy. We'll have to see how he does but I expect him to gas in a round or so. Dudes been retired for, what, 10 years? I'm not sure. I doubt he'll make much of an impact and I highly doubt he can beat anyone in the TUF house, even Ogre 1 and 2 (Wes Shivers and Marcus Jones)


----------



## 70seven

Strikeforce will feed him a can to build up his record. When he gets knocked out by a can, that will shut him up.


----------



## HexRei

BWoods said:


> Walker probably didn't mention Strikerforce because he couldn't. ESPN is a partner with the UFC. Of course they aren't going to put a rival over. The only reason Hershal was even on the show was to talk about his MMA career.
> 
> I haven't seen any training footage of him so I can't comment on his skills. I remember someone mentioning that Walker has a black belt in Tae-Kwon-Do or something. Shows he has dedication to martial arts and I'm sure being a football player he can pick up wrestling pretty easy. We'll have to see how he does but I expect him to gas in a round or so. Dudes been retired for, what, 10 years? I'm not sure. I doubt he'll make much of an impact and I highly doubt he can beat anyone in the TUF house, even Ogre 1 and 2 (Wes Shivers and Marcus Jones)


I saw Herschel claim he has been doing TKD for 15 years. Whoopdeedoo, I can say that same thing, doesn't make it true, and even if it is, doesn't necessarily mean he's got any applicable fight skills. 

Who is he a black belt under? the local YMCA TKD instructor? Usually when someone is a black belt under someone meaningful they mention their master. And a black belt is only worth as much as the master it was awarded under.


----------



## joshua7789

I really hope he gets his silly ass handed to him. I generally dont wish for someone to get embarassed in a fight, but in this d-bags case i will make an exception. What kind of fighter calls out Kimbo Slice to try and prove what a badass he is and for that matter, what kind of fighter calls out a promoter? This guy is making himself look like more and more of a joke as time goes by. News flash Hersschel, you are the strikeforce version of Kimbo. Your a gimmick and nothing more. I dont know why this has me so irritated, but i really hope someone shuts this guy up soon.


----------



## Diokhan

There is a noticeable difference bitween Heisman Trophy winner and a "former nfl player", so yes do I see his point. Show lacks skilled heavyweights and is filled with huge freak shows with low skill level and cardio, prolly why they are former nfl players too.
Do I think he could beat every HW in the show? No, but I do think he could have beaten 3 of the 4 guys so far if his cardio is even half decent still.


----------



## Sicilian_Esq

Maybe Herschel Walker should worry about actually fighting someone first before running his mouth. 

And dimes to donuts? What does he think this is, 1984?


----------



## steveo412

They may as well get his name out there, He is probably Fedors next opponent.


----------



## Darkwraith

Toxic said:


> I doubt he could beat Kimbo never mind anyone else.


oooh...burn!!! :thumbsup: 



Diokhan said:


> There is a noticeable difference bitween Heisman Trophy winner and a "former nfl player", so yes do I see his point. Show lacks skilled heavyweights and is filled with huge freak shows with low skill level and cardio, prolly why they are former nfl players too.
> Do I think he could beat every HW in the show? No, but I do think he could have beaten 3 of the 4 guys so far if his cardio is even half decent still.


You gotta remember though, he is almost 50 and took some good licks playing football...I don't think he is in the prime of his athletic career at all right now...KWIM?


----------



## CornbreadBB

That's just darling Herschel. God, it's truly sad how more and MOAR people are getting dimensia earlier and earlier these days....


----------



## marcthegame

although walker is inexperience and his skills are questionable no one can deny that he is a freak of nature. Although he is old the man still kept in shape. Just look at randy at what he can do at 46. He still does his morning routine of 2,500 sit ups and 1,500 push ups.


----------



## Diokhan

Darkwraith said:


> oooh...burn!!! :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> You gotta remember though, he is almost 50 and took some good licks playing football...I don't think he is in the prime of his athletic career at all right now...KWIM?


Definetily not in his prime anymore, but I have a feeling he still has better cardio than most of the guys in TUF right now and he seems to be in pretty decent shape overall. Also he has something like 5th or 6th degree black belt in tae kwon do so he has half of the guys this season beat in skill level already.
Im not saying he could make an impact on ufc or something, but I disagree with people who keep making fun of his comments, because most of the stuff he says actually makes sense even though there is some typical trash talk included too.


----------



## joshua7789

marcthegame said:


> although walker is inexperience and his skills are questionable no one can deny that he is a freak of nature. Although he is old the man still kept in shape. Just look at randy at what he can do at 46. He still does his morning routine of 2,500 sit ups and 1,500 push ups.


Randy was a world class wrestler, that translates pretty well to mma. Walker is an old football player that has a tae kwon doe backround and is just starting to get into mma. The guy is almost fifty and thinks that he can jump into mma and be competitive with legit fighters. He is out of his mind. Being a football player doesnt have anything to do with mma.


----------



## Rygu

joshua7789 said:


> Randy was a world class wrestler, that translates pretty well to mma. Walker is an old football player that has a tae kwon doe backround and is just starting to get into mma. The guy is almost fifty and thinks that he can jump into mma and be competitive *with legit fighters*. He is out of his mind. Being a football player doesnt have anything to do with mma.


I put your error in bold.

He doesn't think he can be competitive against legit fighters....he thinks he can be competitive against TUF 10 fighters. 

Not a single one of them is legit. Not Kimbo, not that blob Roy Nelson, none.


----------



## joshua7789

rygu said:


> I put your error in bold.
> 
> He doesn't think he can be competitive against legit fighters....he thinks he can be competitive against TUF 10 fighters.
> 
> Not a single one of them is legit. Not Kimbo, not that blob Roy Nelson, none.


His comments arent where i take him thinking he can compete with legit heavyweights from. Him competeing in strikeforce (which has some legit heavyweights, two top ten guys) is what shows that he thinks he can compete with legit heavyweights.


----------



## DahStoryTella

DMX is fighting in november (seriously), DMX/Hershel should be great after...


----------



## HexRei

yeah. DMX is fighting on that joke card with butterbean and tank abbot.

get ready for a night of worked fights!


----------



## Darkwraith

HexRei said:


> yeah. DMX is fighting on that joke card with butterbean and tank abbot.
> 
> get ready for a night of worked fights!


Impressive card there... :confused03:


----------



## Seperator88

coldcall420 said:


> Im putting this in the UFC section cuz it sems like it should be here.....
> 
> Anyways enjoy the laugh....I think he should fight Jose' Canseco..
> 
> CC420:thumbsup:
> 
> CC420


i agree, i think he is just mad because the ufc never thought one time about picking him up


----------



## Diokhan

joshua7789 said:


> His comments arent where i take him thinking he can compete with legit heavyweights from. Him competeing in strikeforce (which has some legit heavyweights, two top ten guys) is what shows that he thinks he can compete with legit heavyweights.


Watch him drop Fedor with a lucky punch in Strikeforce after getting a title shot for beating a gassed out Tank Abbott by decision. Would be damn hilarious.


----------



## Biowza

HexRei said:


> yeah. DMX is fighting on that joke card with butterbean and tank abbot.
> 
> get ready for a night of worked fights!


hahahahahha

That's great.


----------



## SerJ

KOMIRKO said:


> At his age, I'd be surprised if he could successfully beat his meat.


Hahahaha, that's funny man. Funniest comment in this thread :thumb02:


----------



## Colmax

Here's the link to the ESPN interview on video:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4515923

Walker is one of those guys to be blessed with good genes. He looks in pretty damned good shape, and 10+ years younger than his age. 

Herschel is one of those guys that, if he puts his mind to it, he's going to do it. He did it with the bobsled team. He did it in football. He did it in ballet. The guy is just one of those very healthy freak of nature dudes. 

Would not surprise me one bit if he does well in MMA if he decides to stay. I also like the fact that all of his earnings will go to charity. Good stuff.


----------



## coldcall420

*Rashad Evans: I Wanted Roy to KO Kimbo*



> The Kimbo Slice vs Roy Nelson fight that will air Wednesday night on Spike TV was set up by former UFC light heavyweight champion Rashad Evans, Nelson's coach this season on _The Ultimate Fighter_. And Evans said in an interview with FanHouse that he set up that fight for one reason: He wanted to see Kimbo get knocked out, and he thought Nelson was the man to do it.
> 
> That wasn't intended as a slight toward Kimbo, whom Evans says he likes. It was intended as a slight toward Rampage Jackson, Evans' coaching rival, whom Evans says he desperately wanted to beat on the show -- just as he desperately wanted to beat him in the Octagon before Jackson walked away from the UFC to pursue an acting career. Jackson made Kimbo his first choice when the coaches picked their teams, and Evans said he thought Nelson was just the man to whip Jackson's first-round draft pick.
> 
> "I was thinking about winning, and that's why I wanted Roy to beat Kimbo -- I thought Roy could knock Kimbo out," Evans said. "It's not just that Roy can trade punches with Kimbo, but Roy has been in big fights before and he was the only guy who I could be sure wouldn't get sucked into the mystiqueof Kimbo Slice."
> 
> Like everyone affiliated with _The Ultimate Fighter_, Evans is careful not to reveal any spoilers about what actually happened when Kimbo fought Nelson. But he does say that before the fight, he considered Nelson one of the best fighters on Season 10 of the show -- and he considered Kimbo one of the worst.
> 
> However, in hindsight, Evans says he actually sees Kimbo and Nelson as very similar. He said he thinks they both have big things in store for them if they work hard enough, but he's worried that both of them lack the work ethic to put themselves through grueling training camps with world-class coaches.
> 
> "Roy's biggest problem is he's always trained by himself, and he doesn't always seem like he knows how to take coaching," Evans said. "Kimbo can be a very, very good fighter under the right tutelage. Whether he gets that training? That's on him."
> 
> Evans said he thinks Kimbo needs to markedly improve his Brazilian jiu jitsu skills, so it's a good sign that Kimbo is training at American Top Team with black belt Ricardo Liborio. But more than that, Evans said Kimbo needs to reshape his body: According to Evans, Kimbo's broad shoulders and bulging biceps mask the fact that he doesn't have the kind of explosive power in his legs that MMA fighters need.
> 
> Nelson, on the other hand, has the jiu jitsu skills, and he also has that explosive power in his legs, even though his body looks doughy. In fact, Evans said his nickname for Nelson was "Jiu Jitsu Panda" because, like the protagonist in _Kung Fu Panda_, Nelson's skills as a martial artist are greater than you'd think from looking at him.
> 
> But while Evans was impressed by Nelson's MMA abilities, he said he thinks Nelson could stand to learn from Kimbo's street-fighting mentality. Evans said Kimbo is the kind of guy who always comes out looking to fight, while Nelson lacks the killer instinct that great fighters have.
> 
> "Roy's got everything that every great heavyweight needs to have, he just needs to push himself in the Octagon," Evans said. "Roy doesn't put himself in the attack mode all the time."
> 
> In a fight that UFC President Dana White said could draw 7 million viewers to Spike TV, that contrast will be on display: Nelson, the experienced mixed martial artist who doesn't always look like a fighter, against Kimbo, the hard-core street fighter who doesn't always look like a skilled martial artist. Was Evans right when he picked Nelson to KO Kimbo? We'll all find out on Wednesday night.
> Posted By:
> Michael David Smith


 
http://mmafighting.com/news/2009/09/30/rashad-evans-i-wanted-roy-ko-kimbo


Nothing really given away.....just thought I would post..:thumbsup:

CC420


----------



## dafunguru

I h8 when they do this. It makes me want to kill myself in anticipation lol. Interesting how he keeps repeating "I THOUGHT"


----------



## Curly

I like watching Roy fight, he has that big ol' belly that bounces around when he swings. Kimbo is gonna get belly smashed in round two. :thumbsup:


----------



## LCRaiders

Kimbo is going to win tonight for sure


----------



## dfn2008

If Roy wins, will he do his popular "belly rub?"


----------



## Alkhir

Kimbo won't win, I can't imagine him win this fight. I'll be kindly surprised if he wins it though.


----------



## box

After all the leaks and what not, if he win's i'll be shocked. I'm guessing brutal life ending KO win for Kimbo, or maybe i'm just hoping for something more exciting then the two bore fest's so far.


----------



## LCRaiders

dfn2008 said:


> If Roy wins, will he do his popular "belly rub?"


Lol, does he really do that?


----------



## Wookie

I also am hoping for a brutal KO. These damned articles get you all turned around though, I guess I'll find out in about 30 minutes.


----------



## box

Who wants to put credits down that its a 3 rounder and they both gas?


----------



## LCRaiders

box said:


> Who wants to put credits down that its a 3 rounder and they both gas?


Lol, well that is if they go an extra round..


----------



## coldcall420

*Mirko ‘Cro Cop’ Filipovic: Fighting is a matter of life and death*

http://mmamania.com/2009/10/11/mirko-cro-cop-filipovic-fighting-is-a-matter-of-life-and-death/




> _“I was very, very disturbed after the loss to Dos Santos. I was in such a state that I wished to hang myself in my hotel room so I would be gone. Three losses in my last seven fights is nothing but a disaster to me. That’s a terrible score and I’m not happy about it. I already know some things that I did wrong both in the fight and in the preparation for the fight, but there are many questions that remain to be answered. I am seriously thinking about hiring a psychiatrist to help me out. I have already made some calls about it … I will make some changes in my training, because I wish to fight twice more in the UFC. I am a fighter, and I will find the motivation and strength I need … If someone offered me millions of dollars to quit my career right now I would not accept it. [Fighting] is my life and I don’t know any other way to live.”_​Former PRIDE FC superstar, Mirko Filipovic, reflects on his state of mind following his submission (verbal) loss to Junior dos Santos at UFC 103: “Franklin vs. Belfort” from the American Airlines Center in Dallas, Texas, on Sept. 19. He was beaten to the punch, and pretty much beat up, in what essentially turned out to be a striking match for two-plus rounds. The Croatian waved off the Brazilian in the third after eating a brutal knee to the face that wiped out his vision. It marked his third loss inside the Octagon in five attempts — a far cry from the world beater who was scalping his opponents just three years ago under the Pride banner. In fact, he has not defeated a top-level fighter since he made Josh Barnett quit at “Final Conflict Absolute,” which earned him the Pride FC 2006 Open Weight Grand Prix Championship. Could this be the end of the road of Cro Cop’s long and distinguished professional career, which dates back to the mid 1990s? Or will he rise from the ashes and give it one more shot?


I certainly hope Mirko can get himself together because he certainly sounds like he is in a bad place....

I only seem to remember a lack of normal intensity wen thinking back over his last several fights....

I feel like he is the Brett Favre of the UFC is he coming back is he not.....after the last fight it seemed like he might be done.....It def seems like there is something going on in his mind but whatever it is he is battling it...

Thoughts??


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## xbrokenshieldx

I still think CroCop has the talent to have an impact on the heavyweight division in the UFC. But he needs to make some serious changes, changes that I am not sure he will be open to.

First, he really needs to take some time off and get his head together. He just doesn't seem psychologically strong, which is so important in fightng. In his Dos Santos fight it seemed like he was hesitant t pull the trigger. He needs to get his confidence back.

Second, and equally important, he needs to move to the U.S. and get a real training camp. He isn't training with the calibur of fighters that other UFC stars are now, and it shows. The only way I see him winning int he UFC again is if he takes the time and move to the U.S. to train at ATT, Team Jackson or Xtreme Couture. Yes, his striking is great. But it hasn't been great in a cage and he needs a great coach that can help him get used to the cage and use the cage to his strengths.

If he does these 2 things, I think he could do some damage.


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## Halebop

I would love to see the resurrection of Mirko Crocop but here is what I have picked up on in his recent fights:

He always looks nervous like OH SHIT! when he is walking out to the octagon. He seems to lack confidence from even before the fight starts. So here's where I'm going with this: 

I'm not a fighter but I have done law school and the exams are kinda like fights, for real. You have 12 weeks to "train" there are usually no mid-terms or whatever and then come test day you have to give your all and get your grade. So with that single performance determining my grade there were times that I was hungry to kick the test's ass and there were times when I felt like I was being lead to my execution.....because I knew I wasn't prepared for the test and I was pissed that I hadn't done more to prep when I knew I could have and really kicked ass. 

I think Mirko is there. He needs to go to some camps....while his name means something still. A Greg Jackson camp would be ideal to rehabilitate Crocop. But for him to just continue to go back to what is not working and through out the same hyperbole "Ive trained harder than ever" for each fight. It doesn't seem like he believes that on the way to the ring or in the fights. I think he was working harder in his Pride days and that is evidence on film. 

I have been critical of Crocop for a long time but there is no better fighting story then for someone to redeem himself.


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## coldcall420

xbrokenshieldx said:


> I still think CroCop has the talent to have an impact on the heavyweight division in the UFC. But he needs to make some serious changes, changes that I am not sure he will be open to.
> 
> First, he really needs to take some time off and get his head together. He just doesn't seem psychologically strong, which is so important in fightng. In his Dos Santos fight it seemed like he was hesitant t pull the trigger. He needs to get his confidence back.
> 
> Second, and equally important, he needs to move to the U.S. and get a real training camp. He isn't training with the calibur of fighters that other UFC stars are now, and it shows. The only way I see him winning int he UFC again is if he takes the time and move to the U.S. to train at ATT, Team Jackson or Xtreme Couture. Yes, his striking is great. But it hasn't been great in a cage and he needs a great coach that can help him get used to the cage and use the cage to his strengths.
> 
> If he does these 2 things, I think he could do some damage.


 
The second part I think def would make a difference and people will go to great lengths to explain why someone is losing, I have heard he travels like 2 das before the fight all the way from home.....

Thats actually really bad, and would be somthing that your soloution fixes....

I think there needs to be huger there, and I also believe there is such thing as being hungry and still thinking you are!


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## BrianRClover

I hope Cro Cop can get it together. He's a great fighter and seems like a great guy. Is he still training out of his basement as they implied in the UFC not too long ago? If so, as said two comments above mine, that is his biggest hurdle right now. He needs a good camp, and more importantly needs to surround himself with good fighters and good people, I think Jackson's camp would do wonders for him.

His fight against Dos Santos was only he second time I had to cheer against Cro Cop, the first being Gonzaga... other than that. I truly hope Mirko can come back and send some people crashing to the mat.


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## TERMINATOR

Cro cop will pull his head out of his ass. I got faith in him.


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## ZENKI1

Cro needs to surround himself with a positive team that can cater to the skills that got him there in the first place mixed with the usual. WHat or who does his training camp consist of these days anyone know?


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## Bob Pataki

It pains me to say I think Cro Cop is done. I don't think he can really make much of an impact in the current heavyweight division, and if his mental state is really that bad he just retire and get the help he needs.

I've always been a big Cro Cop fan but enough is enough, reading that was difficult and continuing fighting isn't likely to help the situation.


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## Ryan1522

BrianRClover said:


> I hope Cro Cop can get it together. He's a great fighter and seems like a great guy. Is he still training out of his basement as they implied in the UFC not too long ago? If so, as said two comments above mine, that is his biggest hurdle right now. He needs a good camp, and more importantly needs to surround himself with good fighters and good people, I think Jackson's camp would do wonders for him.
> 
> His fight against Dos Santos was only he second time I had to cheer against Cro Cop, the first being Gonzaga... other than that. I truly hope Mirko can come back and send some people crashing to the mat.



While I was reding his quote I thought that Jackson's camp would be perfect for him too. Arlovski is going to be training there for 10 days, so he should go with him. Jackson can light that fire under his assagain and I'm sure having Rashad, Marquardt and GSP as partners wouldn't be too shabby either. Perhaps GSP can lend Cro Cop his psychiatrist's phone number as well.


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## YOURMOMWASHERE

Sorry but after that brutal K.O I think he will always be gun shy.


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## 6toes

I think spending some time at a high-profile camp would do wonders for Cro-Cop. Do I think he still has a chance to make an impact on the HW division? Yeah. But that's best case scenario for sure.


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## Smiley Face

I think Mirko should have retired after he won the OWGP... 

Gonzaga stole his soul, Kongo & Overeem proved Cro Cop left long ago, those wins over that japanese guy who Thiago Silva toyed with and Al-Turk didn't prove anything that we didn't already know, and Dos Santos sealed his fate.

We'll never forget your epic battles against the greatest fighters in the world and your highlight reel KOs... Have fun fishing Mirko.


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## munkie

Crocop is a great kickboxer and could dominate low-level organizations but he shouldn't be back in the UFC cuz he can't win against the top guys, or even the prospects.


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## The Dark Knight

I really feel for him. Sounds like he has a lot to sort out in his life. He isn't getting any younger so if he still wants to be a force within the MMA world he needs to take the advice of the other posters on this board and go to a top level camp that can make use of his skills. Heres hoping you get better soon, Cro..:thumbsup:


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## dutch sauce

all the physical gifts in the world, he jus has to get his head on right..


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## RUmbleBOnes

Man, I gather more and more respect for this man all the time. I love Mirko and will always be in my top 5 all time fav fighters. 

Wrestling, wrestling, wrestling. I want Mirko to shoot for a DL TD. This is mma, not try to kick your head into the 3rd row all the time, for you career Mirko please, mix it up. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Oh yeah, im at work work bored as hell, that article almost brought a tear to my eye. heh, trying to contain my sadness to the crew was LOL to say the least


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## slapshot

I think if he wants to somewhat get back in the mix he needs to get out of a cage maybe get into dream or something but I think is UFC days are gone for good.


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## Uchaaa

He is talking like that since 2 years. Quit now or start training for real.


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## joshua7789

I cant put in more faith in Crocop. Everytime i think he is gonna come back and even look similar to his pride days, he fails to impress. Watching him fight is like pulling teeth these days. He is a kickboxer that throws like five strikes a fight these days (an exaggeration, but you get what im saying). If he isnt going to strike with his opponents, then what is he going to do? The answer is nothing, as we have all seen in his recent fights.


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## Biowza

Uchaaa said:


> He is talking like that since 2 years. Quit now or start training for real.


Exactly, he needs to stop being such a drama queen. A few days after the fight he was all like "I'm done fighting", now he's talking like he's some samurai warrior or something, it is always the same thing. Ever since he got his head kicked into the third row by Gonzaga he's sounding like a broken record.

"This is the hardest I've trained in my li-[Loses]"
"I don't want to fight any more"
[few days later]
"Fighting is who I am, I am a warrior"
"This is the hardest I've trained in my li-[Loses]"
"I don't want to fight any more"

He needs to go back to Japan and whomp on some cans, he seems happiest doing that.


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## swpthleg

dutch sauce said:


> all the physical gifts in the world, he jus has to get his head on right..


So true, and I wake up at night afraid that he never will.


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## Smiley Face

It's over. Us Cro Cop fans have suffered for 2 years... It's f*cking over. I love Mirko but this talk... and than him changing his mind later on... No more. 

He'll always be remembered for his fights in K1 and PRIDE. No UFC, Gonzaga, or Kongo can take that away from him.


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## NGen2010

of all the PRIDE fighters to come into the UFC, I was really looking forward to the CroCop fights - however, he has been the biggest bust of them all. Plan awful and he should hang em up. After that kick to the head he took, the guy has not done anything. 

He is another one that should be on the under card of SPIKE events.


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## kc1983

No amount of psychiatry or changes in training will help Mirko out at this point in his career. 

After his last performance I think its very obvious that his best days are behind him. I don't know about you guys but I don't want to see Mirko scraping by fighting cans. 

After his last loss I am openly accepting that Mirko Cro Cop is done as a fighter - I will always be a fan and will never forget his highlight real finishes or his OWGP performance. 

Let it go guys, Mirko will never be what he once was.


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## ZENKI1

You people are all crazy... CRO JUS NEEDS A POSITIVE CAMP TO RESTORE HIS CONFIDENCE... A confident determined Cro-cop can beat anyone do your homework people.. :thumb02:


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## Davisty69

Am, and always will be a huge Cro Cop fan. 

That being said, I don't know if he is even physically able to compete at an elite level anymore. He didn't seem as quick against RDS, and has also admitted that he has a lot of trouble throwing his kicks in the cage, saying that it is slippery or something like that.

I don't know, I refuse to get my confidence in the clouds again until he can destroy a good fighter like he used to.

I'll still root for him of course, but I won't be delusional and expect him to work over anyone.


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## swpthleg

Davisty69 said:


> Am, and always will be a huge Cro Cop fan.
> 
> That being said, I don't know if he is even physically able to compete at an elite level anymore. He didn't seem as quick against RDS, and has also admitted that he has a lot of trouble throwing his kicks in the cage, saying that it is slippery or something like that.
> 
> I don't know, I refuse to get my confidence in the clouds again until he can destroy a good fighter like he used to.
> 
> I'll still root for him of course, but I won't be delusional and expect him to work over anyone.


This describes my perspective, also. I'll watch him fight however I can, even if it's just watching old Pride fights and remembering the glory that was.


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## ramram22

too small, too one dimensional, and too old............just not a top 10-12 hwt anymore


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## Fieos

Matt Hughes of the Heavyweight division, too small and one-dimensional. The sport has moved past him and he needs to drop the title pursuits and just look for some good fights at his current level of competition with some good paydays. 

If you can't do what you love.. (Cro Cop loves winning) Love what you do... (fighting)

That being said I will always hold his career in high regard as he was a force in his day. He pretty much single-handedly shut down Josh Barnett's career. I don't think Josh needed steroids to be Couture but evidentally they couldn't get him past Cro Cop.

Ramble! Yay!


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## bimmu

Maybe Cro Cop should consider dropping down a weight class. He seems small for a heavyweight anyways, but at lightheavy, he'd be dominant.


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## Fieos

bimmu said:


> Maybe Cro Cop should consider dropping down a weight class. He seems small for a heavyweight anyways, but at lightheavy, he'd be dominant.


I don't think so at all. He strikes me as the guy who thinks that competing in anything but the heavyweight division is like competing in the special Olympics. I don't see him getting fired up for 205lb at all...


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## khoveraki

bimmu said:


> Maybe Cro Cop should consider dropping down a weight class. He seems small for a heavyweight anyways, but at lightheavy, he'd be dominant.



I don't think he'd do too well in the LHW division as is, it's so stacked.

He needs to get more calluses on his feet and that fire back in his eyes. I think his reactions are slow because he's daydreaming, not because he's aging. 

And one dimensional... well, in the way that Chuck Lidell is one dimensional yeah. He's got decent TDD and good submission defense. 

Whether or not he'll get the spark back in time to get good matches remains to be seen. I want the CroCop back that was calling out Fedor and beating up his brother, destroying people with liver kicks, headkicking people's faces clean off... and I'm willing to wait for it.


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## cabby

Mirko should retire


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## coldcall420

*Spider camp: Anderson Silva will be able to fight at UFC 108*



> _“Anderson pulled out some pieces of bones damaged because of the use of his elbows along the years. It’s a simple procedure and he will start training in a month. The surgery took place two and a half weeks ago so he will face Vitor Belfort. Everyone wants this fight, I want this fight. I just think it would be at 88kg whereas Vitor just returned to the event. Be calm people, Spider will throw his web again.”_​Anderson Silva’s coach, Josuel Distak, is confident that his star pupil will be healthy enough to throw hands with Vitor Belfort at UFC 108, which is scheduled for Jan. 2, 2010. “The Spider” underwent a minor surgical procedure to remove bone fragments that had been giving his elbow trouble after many years of fighting. Like team mate Antonio Rogerio Nogueira, the recovery time is very quick and “The Phenom” should have his chance to do what no man in the UFC has done before him: Defeat Anderson Silva.


http://mmamania.com/2009/10/17/spider-camp-anderson-silva-will-be-able-to-fight-at-ufc-108/


This should make for a great card!!!:thumbsup:


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## caveman

I wonder if Belfort will run out of the ring after Silva embarasses him.


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## HexRei

belfort has always been graceful in both winning and losing that i can recall, so i doubt it


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## Chileandude

> Everyone wants this fight, I want this fight. I just think it would be at 88kg whereas Vitor just returned to the event.


88kg is 194 lbs, that means another 195lbs fight.


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## diablo5597

Chileandude said:


> 88kg is 194 lbs, that means another 195lbs fight.


There is no way they will fight at 195 because then it would not be for the MW title. That would be a LHW fight. They will have it at 185.


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## Chileandude

Well, this is basically Andy's camp saying that Belfort doesn't deserve a title shot and they are willing to fight at 195.


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## CornbreadBB

Spider Camp?!! Bahhhhh!!!!!


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## tyler90wm

I remember hearing, I think on MMA-Live, that Anderson's camp doesn't think this fight should be for the belt (at 185) because Belfort barely made weight against Franklin.


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## alizio

what does "barely make weight" mean?? either you make the weight or you dont.....

why does silva come across to gracious and humble, but his camp wants to dictate who is the number 1 contender (he wanted hendo to fight nate), what weight he will fight at and who he will fight.... what does he want to do fight at 195 now??? i dont even believe this can be true, this is ridiculous, you are the MW champ, defend your title against whoever the UFC wants you to, or vacate and move up. But dont do this ridiculous fighting at 205 even tho you refuse to fight for the belt unless Machida loses it.... you cant have everything your way Spider, i have no doubt you are the best p4p and you are likely bored, but you have to defend that title if you plan on keeping it..... wouldnt it be nice if GSP or Brock had 2 fights in between title defenses at different weights..... lol i mean.... we know you can do it, either make history and move to 205 to fight Machida or defend this belt til you retire.


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## 420atalon

alizio said:


> what does "barely make weight" mean?? either you make the weight or you dont.....


It means you needed to get weighed 4 times like Belfort did against Franklin... and that was just to get to 196. If this is at MW he has to make 185.


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## truebluefan

UFC threads from the past restored


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