# ***OFFICIAL*** Lyoto Machida vs. Mauricio Rua Pre/Post Fight



## Xerxes

*Please conduct ALL of your discussion in regards to Lyoto "The Dragon" Machida facing Mauricio "Shogun" Rua in this thread. All threads made in regards to this fight will be merged into this one.*​


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## Ansem

It's time for Machida to shock the world once again, I say Machida will take this one convincingly.


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## The505Butcher

I really think this rematch is foolish. The only reason anyone thought that Shogun did anything in that fight is because of the Rogan and Goldie. The entire fight they were talking up anything that Shogun did like he just knocked out Machida. I keep rewatching the fight and damage wise they might have done the same but Machida hit like 4 times more than Shogun. The only way Shogun wins this fight is if he KO's Machida. Not saying it is not a possibility but if it goes to decision again Machida will win again. 

I like the first fight and the second should be a pretty good fight, it is just I was annoyed watching the replay when Machida lands a punch to Shogun's head and then a body kick and then another to the head and Shogun lands a leg kick and Rogan starts saying "Shogun really hurt Machida there!"

Hope the commentary is better this time around.


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## osmium

Shogun should be 100% by now so I am calling for him to slow Machida down with leg kicks in the early rounds so he can shoot in on him from the third on. Machida's ground game will get exposed here Shogun by submission in the fourth.


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## Hammerlock2.0

I'm calling Shogun by TKO in the fourth. He will slow Machida down again with leg kicks, rock him on his feet and end up in a mount position. This time he won't be so hesitant to step in. WAR SHOGUN!!!

Yeah, I'm calling stuff thanks to Sideways. :thumb02:


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## georgie17891

Machida by either a tko in round 4 or 5 or a UD.


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## AmdM

The only thing Shogun has over Machida are the leg kicks.
After the 1st fight one must expect that Machida won´t be surprised again, most probably he has been working on that,
so im pretty confident he will be dominant this time.

My Bet is on Machida by points again.


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## punchbag

Xerxes said:


> *Please conduct ALL of your discussion in regards to Lyoto "The Dragon" Machida facing Mauricio "Shogun" Rua in this thread. All threads made in regards to this fight will be merged into this one.*​


I know Machida is a bit of a master of strategy, but I just got the feeling Shogun has his number and will win by tko/cut.:thumbsup:


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## wakeboy

shogun by vicious tko


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## Rusko

SHogun by a KO, and lol at people who think that the only thing shogun has are leg kicks he is vicious striker.


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## sNuFf_rEaLiTy

I'm not about to call this, Machida is my boy, so obviously I'm hoping he wins and keeps the streak alive. Honestly though, I wouldn't mind if Shogun won, they are both beastly. I think Machida won the last fight, and took a hell of a beating, something I think he doesn't get enough credit for.

I look for Machida to have worked on his conditioning, and plus with a healthy hand, who knows?


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## deansheppard

i dont have a clue which way this is gonna go, i will be happy with whoever wins i like both fighters. so exciting


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## TheBadGuy

I just cant decide. 

Voted for Shogun 'cause I want him to win but this is tough fight to call... lets say Shogun by tko. And also think that Shogun has the edge on the ground. He survived and passed Lil Nogs guard so i think he can pound Machida from his guard fairly.


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## Hawndo

The505Butcher said:


> I really think this rematch is foolish. The only reason anyone thought that Shogun did anything in that fight is because of the Rogan and Goldie. The entire fight they were talking up anything that Shogun did like he just knocked out Machida. I keep rewatching the fight and damage wise they might have done the same *but Machida hit like 4 times more than Shogun*. The only way Shogun wins this fight is if he KO's Machida. Not saying it is not a possibility but if it goes to decision again Machida will win again.


My God people who say this annoy the crap out of me! Where do you base this "four times as many" from?

According to Fightametric Machida landed slightly over *HALF* of what Shodun did, Shogun landed *82* strikes, Machida *42*.(http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html)

And according to CompuStrike, _ Rua outlanded Machida 89-50 in Total Strikes_. (http://www.compustrike.com/stats.ph...ategory_id=5&parent_id=5&arcyear=Y&arcmonth=M)

How can people possibly think this is a valid argument? Damage wise Shogun won, strikes landed Shogun won.


Shogun rightfully takes the belt home in this via TKO.


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## The505Butcher

Hawndo said:


> My God people who say this annoy the crap out of me! Where do you base this "four times as many" from?
> 
> According to Fightametric Machida landed slightly over *HALF* of what Shodun did, Shogun landed *82* strikes, Machida *42*.(http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html)
> 
> And according to CompuStrike, _ Rua outlanded Machida 89-50 in Total Strikes_. (http://www.compustrike.com/stats.ph...ategory_id=5&parent_id=5&arcyear=Y&arcmonth=M)
> 
> How can people possibly think this is a valid argument? Damage wise Shogun won, strikes landed Shogun won.
> 
> 
> Shogun rightfully takes the belt home in this via TKO.


I don't care what different sites say. I watched the fight and have it recorded and when I count each exchange I see Machida landing more hits. Obviously the judges thought so too. You could show me any site you want but all I have to do is point to who won and I feel ok. Yeah I thought Shogun landed harder and did more damage than any other Machida opponent but he still lost point wise in my opinion. I actually did not like Machida in that fight or a lot of his other fights but when I see the fight I see Machida winning.


Edit:
Ok just rewatched the fight (again). Machida :112 strikes
Shogun: 107
Round 1 M:24 S:21 M
Round 2 M:20 S:28 S
Round 3 M:35 S:20 M
Round 4 M:17 S:15 M Machida wins here.
Round 5 M:16 S:24 S

That was me going through and being very generous on a lot of strikes that are hitting Machida's arms and looks like he might be blocking them. this is also not taking into account that Machida hits Shogun's head a lot and Shogun hits Machida's body a lot.

Damage clearly goes to Shogun IMO but the fact is you can not tell how much damage a punch is. The score goes to Machida in total strikes landed. A lot of machida's strikes are little tiny taps but they still count as a strike in a judges mind. Proving my point that Machida will not be beat on points and that Shogun needs to KO Machida in order to win.

The reason I think that this is unjustified is because rogan was going crazy about anything Shogun did. Machida would land a punch to the head then a body kick and then another punch to the head and Shogun would land a leg kick and Rogan would yell Shogun really hurt Machida there! It annoys me to hear that.


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## Machida Karate

People that are calling out a win for Shogun because of leg kicks are my favorite comments LOL! There like 95% of the Shogun voters too... Thats awesome!

I think it will be a amazing fight, but nothing like the first one, and u would really have to be ignorant to think Machida isn't going to be Defensive and watching for the Leg Kicks the whole time, and Shogun also knows that, and most likely Machida will play his Counter Fighting style and not even worry about Leg Kicks lol...

I see Machida playing amazing Defense and letting Shogun feel the pressure of losing rounds, and Shogun will fall into the old Elusive Machida that will TKO him 4th or 5th round!

Machida by KO Via Head Kick! Its time to laugh at the Shogun lovers! :laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Ansem

Machida Karate said:


> People that are calling out a win for Shogun because of leg kicks are my favorite comments LOL! There like 95% of the Shogun voters too... Thats awesome!
> 
> I think it will be a amazing fight, but nothing like the first one, and u would really have to be ignorant to think Machida isn't going to be Defensive and watching for the Leg Kicks the whole time, and Shogun also knows that, and most likely Machida will play his Counter Fighting style and not even worry about Leg Kicks lol...
> 
> I see Machida playing amazing Defense and letting Shogun feel the pressure of losing rounds, and Shogun will fall into the old Elusive Machida that will TKO him 4th or 5th round!
> 
> Machida by KO Via Head Kick! Its time to laugh at the Shogun lovers! :laugh::laugh::laugh:


True, but I think Shogun will be utilizing some boxing into his gameplan this time, I just hope Machida does not get carried away by defending leg kicks and gets hit by punches, I know Machida is probably the most intelligent fighter in the UFC so hopefully that would be of no concern Machida's stand-up > Shogun's so the only way i can see Shogun winning is on ground which it might not even get to


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## Rusko

Yeah, Shoguns team found a hole in his game. Now I am sure Machida worked on it and wount get caught. I wonder what new Shogun will bring to win.


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## The Dude Abides

It's just hit me. Why the **** have we had to wait this long to see these guys fight again?


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## Ansem

The Dude Abides said:


> It's just hit me. Why the **** have we had to wait this long to see these guys fight again?


Because Machida needed surgery on his hand, and I believe he needed it before the fight, but held on till after. Also on another note These 2 aren't the only guys in the UFC so the fights have to be scheduled in place to play out.


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## coldcall420

This one will be alot easier, Machida....4th RD TKO.....:thumbsup: LOL Shogun will score leg kicks....sure, Machida learned nothing from the last fight.....of course not!!!!

Once this is over there will be a huge gap between Machida and the rest of the 205 division, hell i could see Shogun fighting back up and being his biggest challenge again after this fight....


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## kano666

Obviously this is a very tough fight to call. I love Shogun's aggression, kicking & clinchwork. But I voted for Machida, who is one of my favourite fighters. Shogun could take it but here are some factors I think weigh in Machida's favour:

1. Footwork - Machida could have the best footwork in the UFC. Last fight Shogun did a good job neutralizing Machida's movement with punishing leg kicks. If Machida can change his stance just enough to check or counter the leg kicks but not so much that he sacrifices movement or exposes his head to strikes, then he will control the pace while they are standing. I think the ideal stance will still be long and low but a little less so (his is the longest in the UFC) and he will have to rely on his light feet more and his head movement less (because it will be closer to opponent) to avoid damage.

2. Calm - Machida's mental game is strong and he fights in a calm and calculated way rather than with emotion. His focus will help him defend Shogun's explosive and aggressive attack, especially if he ends up in a bad position like taking damage in the clinch against the cage or being ground-and-pounded. His calmness and technique should help him weather the storm and return to a neutral position standing or on the ground.

3. Timing - Machida has superb counterstrike timing but also needs to mix things up so he is not too predictable. Timing is partly reflex and instinct but also partly the ability to pick up on the opponent's rhythms and predict movement. Shogun is a pretty versatile striker and not afraid to take Machida down, so Machida needs to respond with a versatile attack/counterattack balance which keeps him tough for Shogun to time and also doesn't let Shogun dictate the pace. 

If I were in Machida's corner I'd start with a tentative first round focused on movement and counterstriking to feel out Shogun's rhythm and strategy, then shake things up in the second round with more aggression and in-and-out combos. Also I'd advise against throwing too many kicks except in combos or when Shogun is off-balance or backpedalling. I think Shogun beats Machida to the kick, partly because of MT stance vs deep karate stance, and Machida needs to protect his legs and keep moving lightly on his feet.


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## bedcommando

Both fighters put on one of the most entertaining 5 round wars...

But depending on what Machida did to correct his game, I see it throwing off his timing/movement and this may be enough to get caught by Shogun. I think this could end up like Miguel Torres trying out a different game plan and it not going in his favour (just not as brutal)

I'm going late round 2/first minute round 3 tko Shogun :thumb02:


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## rushStPierre

The505Butcher said:


> I really think this rematch is foolish. *The only reason anyone thought that Shogun did anything in that fight is because of the Rogan and Goldie.* The entire fight they were talking up anything that Shogun did like he just knocked out Machida. I keep rewatching the fight and damage wise they might have done the same but Machida hit like 4 times more than Shogun. The only way Shogun wins this fight is if he KO's Machida. Not saying it is not a possibility but if it goes to decision again Machida will win again.
> 
> I like the first fight and the second should be a pretty good fight, it is just I was annoyed watching the replay when Machida lands a punch to Shogun's head and then a body kick and then another to the head and Shogun lands a leg kick and Rogan starts saying "Shogun really hurt Machida there!"
> 
> Hope the commentary is better this time around.


thats why the crowd was even booing the decision :confused03:

im taking shogun in this, he has his confidence fully back after their first encounter and machida will fight with more caution(sounds funny lol).


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## footodors

So, what exactly will machida change to counter those leg strikes?


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## Ansem

footodors said:


> So, what exactly will machida change to counter those leg strikes?


I think Machida himself will demonstrate that.


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## osmium

footodors said:


> So, what exactly will machida change to counter those leg strikes?


Andy was giving everyone a preview of Lyoto's strategy in the fifth. 

If a guy wants to leg kick you he is going to unless you take him down. You are exposed to leg kicks coming in and going out there isn't a strategy to magically not get hit by any if you intend on striking. He could circle out instead of going straight back and probably take less damage. He could also be more aggressive and make Shogun back pedal so he can't set himself to throw them as often. Lyoto isn't dramatically changing how he fights though and he will get hit with a lot of leg kicks he just needs to do a better job of damaging Shogun if he wants to win.


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## Kado

I think it will probally end up going to the judges again with Lyoto winning. Also, I feel with a second fight the advantage goes to Lyoto, on the fact that he knows that Shogun knows how to beat him, and he can change up some aspects of his game.


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## Squirrelfighter

I have Machida by CONVINCING unamimous decision. Rua is too good to get KOed, but I don't think he has too much left in his bag of tricks to surprise Machida.


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## The505Butcher

rushStPierre said:


> thats why the crowd was even booing the decision :confused03:
> 
> im taking shogun in this, he has his confidence fully back after their first encounter and machida will fight with more caution(sounds funny lol).


If you read my previous post you know that Shogun won the last round. I also said Shogun did more damage in the fight. So the last impression in the eyes of the crowd as well as looking like he did more damage makes the crowd think Shogun won. The entire reason for my post was that this was not one of the most contreversial decisions ever. Machida clearly won in the score books and I am saying that if it goes to decision again he will win most likely because he is a point based striker. The commentary in that fight was terrible to me because Machida would throw a punch and sweep shogun's leg and Shogun would fall back and Rogan would yell "Shogun really hurt Machida with that leg kick there!" I don't want to hear another fight like that because it causes me stress. sorry.


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## coldcall420

Ansem said:


> I think Machida himself will demonstrate that.





osmium said:


> Andy was giving everyone a preview of Lyoto's strategy in the fifth.
> 
> If a guy wants to leg kick you he is going to unless you take him down. You are exposed to leg kicks coming in and going out there isn't a strategy to magically not get hit by any if you intend on striking. He could circle out instead of going straight back and probably take less damage. He could also be more aggressive and make Shogun back pedal so he can't set himself to throw them as often. Lyoto isn't dramatically changing how he fights though and he will get hit with a lot of leg kicks he just needs to do a better job of damaging Shogun if he wants to win.


 

In my professional nut hugging position this is pretty accurate. Lyoto will not have some secret move or something like that what he will be looking to do is stop Rua from throwing those kicks by messing with his distance and also his timing, very good post IMO Osmium, you only really left out the checking of a leg kick that any fighter pretty much knows but one like rampage never employs.....

Lastly the stance that Lyoto will use in this fight could be slightly different....usually he is pretty much just in a wide stance rather than traditional, look for a slight change in that as I do expect him to move side to side and pivot more and attack those same legs that are looking to attack his, he will do this with simple kicks nothing fancy as it really isn't what his focus will be on during the fight, meaning he isn't going in there to beat up Rua's leg's....


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## Mckeever

Who says rua is coming into this fight looking for leg kicks? Im sure he has a different strategy too.


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## coldcall420

Mckeever said:


> Who says rua is coming into this fight looking for leg kicks? Im sure he has a different strategy too.


 
Rua did in an interview recently saying he may try to throw more punches otherwise he looks to do alot of the same as he has fought the same way for ten yrs....:thumbsup:


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## No_Mercy

I'm going to say all main event fights will hopefully end in knockout.

Kimbo KOs Mitrione
Daley KOs Koscheck
Cote TKOs Belcher

Unfortunately I can't quite call this one yet, but I have a feeling someone will also get knocked out this time. Both have much to prove. 

I won last time with Machida. This one should be decisive whoever wins it.


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## Mckeever

coldcall420 said:


> Rua did in an interview recently saying he may try to throw more punches otherwise he looks to do alot of the same as he has fought the same way for ten yrs....:thumbsup:


Doubt hed publically release his strategy to the mma world via an interview. I expect to see a lot of clinch work from shogun, doing some damage there from knees and elbows and maybe some take downs and ground work. We have seen machida vulnerable from the ground before.


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## coldcall420

Mckeever said:


> *Doubt hed publically release his strategy to the mma world via an interview*. I expect to see a lot of clinch work from shogun, doing some damage there from knees and elbows and maybe some take downs and ground work. We have seen machida vulnerable from the ground before.


 
Yeah, dont know where I would have got that from.....:confused05:

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/74734-shogun-i-fight-10-years-one-way-i-will-not-change-now.html


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## footodors

I agree, more clinch work from Rua.


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## Mckeever

coldcall420 said:


> Yeah, dont know where I would have got that from.....:confused05:
> 
> http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/74734-shogun-i-fight-10-years-one-way-i-will-not-change-now.html


?? Didnt say you were lying, i seen that thread when it was first made. My point still stands, i doubt shogun would publically announce his strategy and gameplan to the mma world.


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## Indestructibl3

I say Machida now knows Shogun's style, his gameplan - and I don't see Shogun changing it up much - so I give this one to Machida - 4th round TKO ...


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## coldcall420

Mckeever said:


> *Doubt hed publically release his strategy to the mma world via an interview*. I expect to see a lot of clinch work from shogun, doing some damage there from knees and elbows and maybe some take downs and ground work. We have seen machida vulnerable from the ground before.





Mckeever said:


> ?? Didnt say you were lying, i seen that thread when it was first made. *My point still stands*,* i doubt shogun would publically announce his strategy and gameplan to the mma world*.


 
Either way you said you didnt think he would give an interview stating his gameplan....he did, not whether he was serious with what he said during that interview.....no fighter comes out and lays out an exact plan, many dont have it till they get in there and feel their opponent....:thumbsup:


Not sure how you can say you doubt he would publically announce his strategy and you point still stands....he did.....:thumbsup:


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## SUR1109

i truly think machida took him lightly the first one but my bets on shogun


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## Engineuity

coldcall420 said:


> Either way you said you didnt think he would give an interview stating his gameplan....he did, not whether he was serious with what he said during that interview.....no fighter comes out and lays out an exact plan, many dont have it till they get in there and feel their opponent....:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Not sure how you can say you doubt he would publically announce his strategy and you point still stands....he did.....:thumbsup:


FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode] Given quality bickering like that I'm surprised you are'nt back on the staff yet. [/FONT=BizarreWankFest.


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## OliverTwist

Shogun by hadouken 4th round lol cant think of a better way to break the hearts of machida nut huggers

and holds up, I'll look up my breakdown of their last fight.

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/64680-dissecting-machida-vs-shogun-3.html#post1031240
found it! See how it compares to yours


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## SUR1109

coldcall420 said:


> In my professional nut hugging position this is pretty accurate. Lyoto will not have some secret move or something like that what he will be looking to do is stop Rua from throwing those kicks by messing with his distance and also his timing, very good post IMO Osmium, you only really left out the checking of a leg kick that any fighter pretty much knows but one like rampage never employs.....
> 
> Lastly the stance that Lyoto will use in this fight could be slightly different....usually he is pretty much just in a wide stance rather than traditional, look for a slight change in that as I do expect him to move side to side and pivot more and attack those same legs that are looking to attack his, he will do this with simple kicks nothing fancy as it really isn't what his focus will be on during the fight, meaning he isn't going in there to beat up Rua's leg's....





Engineuity said:


> FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode] Given quality bickering like that I'm surprised you are'nt back on the staff yet. [/FONT=BizarreWankFest.


lol its not bickering it professional nutt huggin at its best :thumb02:


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## Mckeever

coldcall420 said:


> Either way you said you didnt think he would give an interview stating his gameplan....he did, not whether he was serious with what he said during that interview.....no fighter comes out and lays out an exact plan, many dont have it till they get in there and feel their opponent....:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Not sure how you can say you doubt he would publically announce his strategy and you point still stands....he did.....:thumbsup:


Well we dont know if that is his strategy until the fight happens do we? So neither us can actually say that is his strategy until we see what happens.

*insert unnecessary, irritating thumbs up here*

*here* *here*

and *here*

Feel free to quote me when rua comes in and clinches with machida and does a lot damage from there via knees and elbows though.


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## Futuristic88

I'm kinda in between here. I like both fighters, they are both great fighters. No one can really give an outright decision. I think this one will go to decision again, but I would rather see a KO or TKO. No matter how it finishes, I think it will be a great fight.


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## coldcall420

Mckeever said:


> Well we dont know if that is his strategy until the fight happens do we? So neither us can actually say that is his strategy until we see what happens.
> 
> *insert unnecessary, irritating thumbs up here*
> 
> *here* *here*
> 
> and *here*
> 
> Feel free to quote me when rua comes in and clinches with machida and does a lot damage from there via knees and elbows though.


 
Circles......symantics...whatever you want. I'm not here to argue, my posts are clear and precise....:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Bottom :thumbsup:line you just had your words taken and shown to you yet you:thumbsup: still argue.....again not worth it......just admit he came out and said what he was going to do and you started :thumbsup:all this with i doubt he is gonna come out and say what he is gonn:thumbsup:a do, then that turned into well im sure he isnt going to :thumbsup:tell us the truth about what he is gonna do.....WTF ever....:sarcastic12:


here just for you....:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

EDIT: you seem to think Lyoto would have a prob in the clinch, he has trained Muay Thai under Andersons last instructor for more than 2 yrs, he does well in the clinch and tossed Tito from that position many times......I'll def quote you on that, and when he doesnt do much from the clinch I will quote you too.....


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## Mckeever

coldcall420 said:


> Circles......symantics...whatever you want. I'm not here to argue, my posts are clear and precise....:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
> 
> Bottom :thumbsup:line you just had your words taken and shown to you yet you:thumbsup: still argue.....again not worth it......just admit he came out and said what he was going to do and you started :thumbsup:all this with i doubt he is gonna come out and say what he is gonn:thumbsup:a do, then that turned into well im sure he isnt going to :thumbsup:tell us the truth about what he is gonna do.....WTF ever....:sarcastic12:
> 
> 
> here just for you....:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
> 
> EDIT: you seem to think Lyoto would have a prob in the clinch, he has trained Muay Thai under Andersons last instructor for more than 2 yrs, he does well in the clinch and tossed Tito from that position many times......I'll def quote you on that, and when he doesnt do much from the clinch I will quote you too.....


lol, you have issues man that need to be resolved. Thats all im'a say.


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## BobbyCooper

Don't bother yourself with this guy CC! He is so obstinate in every single post..:confused05: Believe me, he is the only guy on this entire board who managed it to really piss me off. I wouldn't even reply to his posts anymore.. isn't worth the time.. just ignore him!

Sorry Mckeever, but you are the one who has serious issues here! if you haven't realised it by now..

take care..


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## coldcall420

Engineuity said:


> FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode] Given quality bickering like that I'm surprised you are'nt back on the staff yet. [/FONT=BizarreWankFest.


 

Ah, lovely a past fan of mine with a new screen name???? Intresting??? We'll take a look at that later on.....:thumb02:

Welcome....lulz....


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## Mckeever

BobbyCooper said:


> Don't bother yourself with this guy CC! He is so obstinate in every single post..:confused05: Believe me, he is the only guy on this entire board who managed it to really piss me off. I wouldn't even reply to his posts anymore.. isn't worth the time.. just ignore him!
> 
> Sorry Mckeever, but you are the one who has serious issues here! if you haven't realised it by now..
> 
> take care..


Ok, mr "i would act the exact same way Anderson silva does if i had fame and glory, you wouldnt believe how arrogant i would be". Think your the one with issues man. I dont have time for people like you.

"Silva has all the right in the World, to act like he did that night! He is by far the king of his Sport today. He is the god of MMA! It's just damn normal to be arrogant and cocky if you are called the best of the best. You know how I would act like?? You can't imagine how arrogant I would be! We should bless Anderson for staying so humble over the years. Many many others would act so much worse.

How would you act if you were Anderson Silva? It's so easy to blame him for his actions if you don't know nothing about his situation.

I tell you guys we would all act so much worse then Silva does. He is King of his Sport! It's just damn normal that he is arrogant and sometimes can't behave himself like everybody wishes."


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## coldcall420

Whoa.....:confused05:



I have family from Manchester.....they are not all like that!!! I swear!!


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## Mckeever

coldcall420 said:


> Whoa.....:confused05:
> 
> 
> 
> I have family from Manchester.....they are not all like that!!! I swear!!


You dont know any thing about me man. Your acting as if you know me from a debate over an internet forum, really?

What part of Manchester out of interest?


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## coldcall420

Mckeever said:


> You dont know any thing about me man. Your acting as if you know me from a debate over an internet forum, really?
> 
> What part of Manchester out of interest?


 

Just relax man, were all cool here....you like freak out....feel like you need to relax a lil....dont take everything so serious. I think your an okay dude so lets just all get along and chill....

Never is everyone going to see eye to eye, but you get upset and it isnt worth it....:thumb02: 

My bad it isnt Manchester...that might explain it.....My Dad is from Mansfield, which is in Nottinghamshire and Mom is from Merseyside, which is near Liverpool....but I'm sure I dont have to tell you where they are located....IM GOING TO REP YOU MOMENTARILY.....:thumbsup:


----------



## The505Butcher

Mckeever said:


> Ok, mr "i would act the exact same way Anderson silva does if i had fame and glory, you wouldnt believe how arrogant i would be". Think your the one with issues man. I dont have time for people like you.
> 
> "Silva has all the right in the World, to act like he did that night! He is by far the king of his Sport today. He is the god of MMA! It's just damn normal to be arrogant and cocky if you are called the best of the best. You know how I would act like?? You can't imagine how arrogant I would be! We should bless Anderson for staying so humble over the years. Many many others would act so much worse.
> 
> How would you act if you were Anderson Silva? It's so easy to blame him for his actions if you don't know nothing about his situation.
> 
> I tell you guys we would all act so much worse then Silva does. He is King of his Sport! It's just damn normal that he is arrogant and sometimes can't behave himself like everybody wishes."


I do not think fame and fortune justifies actions man. It might go to your head and I agree it is hard not to act lke that but Fedor is the God of MMA or GSP and they do not act like that. They respect their opponents and finish the fight when they can. Lyoto can be considered godlike and he does not act like that.

Though now that I am looking closer at this were you saying Cooper said this or is this your opinion?


----------



## Mckeever

Yo what the hell, do both you and cold call think i posted that? That was a direct quote from bobby cooper from the anderson silva post fight thread. I would never say shit as dumb as that. Here is the link:

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/75046-so-what-anderson-said-maia-fight-wow-8.html#post1159451

coldcall you tell me to chill, right before you post insulting me? Not everyone from manchester is like him? lol how do you expect me to react?


----------



## coldcall420

Mckeever said:


> Yo what the hell, do both you and cold call think i posted that? That was a direct quote from bobby cooper from the anderson silva post fight thread. I would never say shit as dumb as that.
> 
> coldcall you tell me to chill, right before you post insulting me? Not everyone from manchester is like him? lol how do you expect me to react?


 
Mckeever I know who posted it, I didnt ask that question....:thumbsup: I told you that you say something like Shogun wouldnt give his gameplan away or state what he was going to do. Then i posted it for you and it changed from he isnt going to admit what his gameplan is to i doubt he is telling us the truth...the point is i showed you he did tell us his gameplan. 

You were wrong admit it go next...when Im wrong I admit it....khov's called me out about Hendo saying I picked him to win.....I did.....so I posted yes I bet on him and i bet 5 mill....i was wrong...NOT a big deal....:thumbsup:

I have said nothing insulting to you either, thats what i mean man dont expect everyone is trying you...they are not, but you might get called out when you are wrong...we all do....


I called you argumentative....based on the above that isnt an insult...it's nailed right on the head....


----------



## Mckeever

coldcall420 said:


> Mckeever I know who posted it, I didnt ask that question....:thumbsup: I told you that you say something like Shogun wouldnt give his gameplan away or state what he was going to do. Then i posted it for you and it changed from he isnt going to admit what his gameplan is to i doubt he is telling us the truth...the point is i showed you he did tell us his gameplan.
> 
> You were wrong admit it go next...when Im wrong I admit it....khov's called me out about Hendo saying I picked him to win.....I did.....so I posted yes I bet on him and i bet 5 mill....i was wrong...NOT a big deal....:thumbsup:
> 
> I have said nothing insulting to you either, thats what i mean man dont expect everyone is trying you...they are not, but you might get called out when you are wrong...we all do....
> 
> 
> I called you argumentative....based on the above that isnt an insult...it's nailed right on the head....


"Whoa.....



I have family from Manchester.....they are not all like that!!! I swear!!"

? That isnt you trying to insult me? Then what is it?

That isnt shoguns gameplan. Do you really think a world class fighter would be stupid enough to openly state in an interview the gameplan for his fight, knowing full well Machida and his camp are going to see it? Come on man, do the maths. Obviously he is going to look to kick him, that isnt actually going through his gameplan.

"Im looking to kick Machida again, i have been doing this for 10 years now, im not going to change". If thats your idea of a game plan then i dont know what to say really. thats like Manny Paciquo coming out and saying "i, am going to punch him in the ribs hard and fast" and then everybody saying; "OMG, Pacqiou just spilled out his game plan to the boxing world!!!", except it isnt a game plan is it. There is much more strategy to executing a game plan and neither Rua or Machida are going to openly describe it to the mma community.


----------



## vilify

Never was a huge Shogun fan but i'm rooting for him once again. I want to see him vs Rampage for the title.


----------



## coldcall420

Mckeever said:


> "Whoa.....
> 
> 
> 
> I have family from Manchester.....they are not all like that!!! I swear!!"
> 
> ? That isnt you trying to insult me? Then what is it?
> 
> That isnt shoguns gameplan. Do you really think a world class fighter would be stupid enough to openly state in an interview the gameplan for his fight, knowing full well Machida and his camp are going to see it? Come on man, do the maths. Obviously he is going to look to kick him, that isnt actually going through his gameplan.
> 
> "Im looking to kick Machida again, i have been doing this for 10 years now, im not going to change". If thats your idea of a game plan then i dont know what to say really. thats like Manny Paciquo coming out and saying "i, am going to punch him in the ribs hard and fast" and then everybody saying; "OMG, Pacqiou just spilled out his game plan to the boxing world!!!", except it isnt a game plan is it. There is much more strategy to executing a game plan and neither Rua or Machida are going to openly describe it to the mma community.


 
Whatever bro, Im done nit picking.....You can quote me saying anything and if Im wrong i can argue till people just get totally annoyed by breaking things down even further till the original question doesnt even exist, but whats the point...thats what this is and Im done.....be well:thumb02: Sometimes it takes a big man to know when he is small....this is what Bobby was trying to tell me....


----------



## Mckeever

coldcall420 said:


> Whatever bro, Im done nit picking.....You can quote me saying anything and if Im wrong i can argue till people just get totally annoyed by breaking things down even further till the original question doesnt even exist, but whats the point...thats what this is and Im done.....be well:thumb02: Sometimes it takes a big man to know when he is small....this is what Bobby was trying to tell me....


What about your insultive post about me being from Manchester? I thought you didnt say any thing to provoke me? Even though i just directly quoted you saying some thing provocative. And your family aint even from Manchester in the first place?

Ok mate, peace out. :thumbsup:


----------



## BobbyCooper

I didn't really wanted to ruin the Lyoto thread for this..



Mckeever said:


> Ok, mr "i would act the exact same way Anderson silva does if i had fame and glory, you wouldnt believe how arrogant i would be". Think your the one with issues man. I dont have time for people like you.
> 
> "Silva has all the right in the World, to act like he did that night! He is by far the king of his Sport today. He is the god of MMA! It's just damn normal to be arrogant and cocky if you are called the best of the best. You know how I would act like?? You can't imagine how arrogant I would be! We should bless Anderson for staying so humble over the years. Many many others would act so much worse.
> 
> How would you act if you were Anderson Silva? It's so easy to blame him for his actions if you don't know nothing about his situation.
> 
> I tell you guys we would all act so much worse then Silva does. He is King of his Sport! It's just damn normal that he is arrogant and sometimes can't behave himself like everybody wishes."


Mckeever come on now.. Me and you know why you picked on every single post I made from a specific date on. You insulted somebody for his opinion, wich was absolutely unnecessary.. it was a new member on here (who I didn't saw posting anymore after this), who just expressed his opinion and you just jumped on him, for no reasons.. and yes I called you out on it. Don't you think you should be over that since today? I only saw you doing it twice since then one time against me, wich is fine! It's seems to me that you took something from it, wich is good! :thumbsup:

My Anderson Silva comment, was in the heat of the moment.. where nearly everybody was bashing him on here. I explained why I said that in the same thread a couple of times.. I know that this comment, was pretty harsh.. also when I said, that "95% of the ppl would act like that".. How should I be able to make such a strong comment, without including myself into it?? that wouldn't be right, would it? You can believe whatever you want.. you made your mind about my personality since then and you stamped on that, so I would just say stick with that!!





The505Butcher said:


> I do not think fame and fortune justifies actions man. It might go to your head and I agree it is hard not to act lke that but Fedor is the God of MMA or GSP and they do not act like that. They respect their opponents and finish the fight when they can. Lyoto can be considered godlike and he does not act like that.
> 
> Though now that I am looking closer at this were you saying Cooper said this or is this your opinion?


I said that, I stick with the comment 100%! 

this here, was a comment I made to another poster who responded similar to you back then..



BobbyCooper said:


> Silva had one moment of madness! Would you forgive him one single moment of humanness? One little moment of weakness? I know we are not used to see Anderson doing this compared to many others who call themself "Martial Artists".. thats the reason why everybody is so shocked and upset about it (including myself) and tries to take one little moment of weakness to call out somebodys personality and change it around 180 degree!
> 
> Like I said earlier, you can't behave yourself forever! At one point even a guy like Anderson sees red. It's just human and pretty understandable in Silva's place and we should bless him that he could hold it back for so long. I don't know why it happened against one of the most lovable persons in MMA that day, that night.. it's hard to explain.. but he is human and it's his right to be cocky someday, like we all have our bad days and good days.
> It's very easy to hate on a guy, if you have no idea what his situation looks like. Silva is still by far one of the most humble guys in the world, cause he is a guy who doesn't forget where he is coming from.


----------



## Mckeever

BobbyCooper said:


> I didn't really wanted to ruin the Lyoto thread for this..
> 
> 
> 
> Mckeever come on now.. Me and you know why you picked on every single post I made from a specific date on. You insulted somebody for his opinion, wich was absolutely unnecessary.. it was a new member on here (who I didn't saw posting anymore after this), who just expressed his opinion and you just jumped on him, for no reasons.. and yes I called you out on it. Don't you think you should be over that since today? I only saw you doing it twice since then one time against me, wich is fine! It's seems to me that you took something from it, wich is good! :thumbsup:
> *
> Being absolutely honest, i dont know what you mean when you say i have picked on your posts from a certain date, thats the honest truth. It just so happens that i seem to disagree with you on a lot of things. If i see any one post some thing that i dont agree with, then im going to post my thoughts back and express my opinion.
> 
> I can assure you (until the whole anderson silva post, which i'll get round to) that there has never been any thing personal going on and me picking you out of the group. Like i said, it just happens that we seem to disagree with a few things, so i find myself always replying to your posts more than others. Nothing personal man and i dont want you to think that.
> 
> Also who do you mean when you said you called me out on it?I actually cant remember this, what happened?*
> 
> My Anderson Silva comment, was in the heat of the moment.. where nearly everybody was bashing him on here. I explained why I said that in the same thread a couple of times.. I know that this comment, was pretty harsh.. also when I said, that "95% of the ppl would act like that".. How should I be able to make such a strong comment, without including myself into it?? that wouldn't be right, would it? You can believe whatever you want.. you made your mind about my personality since then and you stamped on that, so I would just say stick with that!!
> 
> *Sorry, i didnt get round to seeing your other posts about the matter in the thread, i must of missed them, it was easy to get lost in all of those silva threads and posts, post fight. Its all good then man and i completely understand and agree with you. We all do and say things we dont necessarily mean in the heat of the moment. I take back what i posted about you.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said that, I stick with the comment 100%!
> 
> this here, was a comment I made to another poster who responded similar to you back then..


*
My feelings about Silva havnt changed though man. Like i said, i have always believed for a long time that Anderson has always been very arrogant and fools people with his humbleness and bowing antics, its just that on UFC 112, everyone got to see it in all its glory. Thats my opnion and me just disagreeing with you, nothing at all personal. Neither of us know the true anderson silva or have met him personally, its simply a matter of opinion and we both disagree, again, not a personal attack on your posts.
*

We cool? If i ever quote your posts disagreeing or arguing, it aint any thing personal at all, its just me, disagreeing and expressing my opnion.


----------



## BobbyCooper

It happened in a Lyoto thread. Somebody said, that he was very upset how much hate Lyoto got after the Shogun fight, with a decision he had zero business with. And you then just jumped on him for no reason.. you don't remember this? I think it was the first time we actually talked to each other on here.

Since then you somehow picked on my posts in general to find someting to argue about.. as far as I can gauge it! It was just before that, my Lyoto nuthugging didn't bother you at all. But after that it did.. 

But forget about that now! I'm glad we are cool now and can just move on  I hope we can have some normal debate in the future, without this stuff^^ 

All the best!


----------



## Mckeever

BobbyCooper said:


> It happened in a Lyoto thread. Somebody said, that he was very upset how much hate Lyoto got after the Shogun fight, with a decision he had zero business with. And you then just jumped on him for no reason.. you don't remember this? I think it was the first time we actually talked to each other on here.
> 
> Since then you somehow picked on my posts in general to find someting to argue about.. as far as I can gauge it! It was just before that, my Lyoto nuthugging didn't bother you at all. But after that it did..
> 
> But forget about that now! I'm glad we are cool now and can just move on  I hope we can have some normal debate in the future, without this stuff^^
> 
> All the best!


Now you mention it i do remember that yes. I was saying how Machida wasnt hated compared to the likes of Ortiz/bisping/lesnar etc i think. Either way, you calling me out back then didnt make me hold some personal grudge against you, just so happens that we disagree on some things and are both strongly opinionated.

Yea, any ways, that stuff is in the past, time to start a fresh :thumb02:


----------



## Squirrelfighter

My god! This is why I didn't keep track of this one! So much senseless, needless, entertaining but retarded, arguing. 

Honestly. I argued with Mckeever about Machida/Rua just like(so it seems)everybody else does. But honestly. This one got out of hand. When you have coldcall and Cooper throwing out insults, its time to call it a thread and go home! 

In my humble, not wanting to poke the bear and make him kill me, opinion, Rua stated that he's gonna kick in an interview, thats fact. Of course he'll kick, he always kicks as much as he punches. I think he found the one hole in Machida's ellusive armor and exploited it. Do I think he'll try to exploit said weakness again? Yup. Do I think its the extent of his strategy? Nope. That's logical, however stop the muthafuckin nitpicking and arguing! Are you grown men or twelve year olds!

I see Machida being his unsual ellusive and forcing a UD. However I expect he may have Rua's number. As I said on page 2 or 3, Machida by convincing UD.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

I think that Lyoto will fix a lot and avoid making the same mistakes again. I have Lyoto winning this fight.


----------



## swpthleg

Jeesus, is the moon full?

Somebody needs a Midol.


----------



## coldcall420

I have Lyoto winning in the 4th Squirrel....:confused05: I didnt throw out any insults.....and i believe Bobby was just clarifying a thing or 2.....

EDIT: By tko....


----------



## Ansem

I think Rua is gonna go out and possibly be doing his thing in the first 2 rounds, while Machida is gonna avoid being hit and just get down the timing, then in the 3-4 round I see something happening different then their first fight, and hopefully Machida will be the one standing.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

coldcall420 said:


> I have Lyoto winning in the 4th Squirrel....:confused05: I didnt throw out any insults.....and i believe Bobby was just clarifying a thing or 2.....
> 
> EDIT: By tko....


I considered maybe a KO, but I think Rua has a much better chin than Evans and is far less likely to get KTFOed than Silva, and he's got much better overall movement than either of them in my opinion. He'd be exponentially harder to KO with Machida's style IMO. But I think Machida will be able to land more(numerically and more importantly effective)hits than Rua. 


You guys might not have. I skimmed some, read most...but damn it got heated in here! That's why I was hesitant to join the fun at least!


----------



## SUR1109

ok now were back on track ty lol tht was interesting:bye02:


----------



## coldcall420

Squirrelfighter said:


> I considered maybe a KO, but I think Rua has a much better chin than Evans and is far less likely to get KTFOed than Silva, and he's got much better overall movement than either of them in my opinion. He'd be exponentially harder to KO with Machida's style IMO. But I think Machida will be able to land more(numerically and more importantly effective)hits than Rua.
> 
> 
> You guys might not have. I skimmed some, read most...but damn it got heated in here! That's why I was hesitant to join the fun at least!


 
I can easily see this and also I can see what another member suggested which would be that Lyoto lets Rua come with it the 1st couple rds to feel him out, i could see it but i think it's unlikely, I believe Lyoto will be much more aggressive in this fight....

Im tryin to decide whether to go all in on Lyoto with the vBookie....:confused02:

This thread will be easily 30 pages by the time UFC 113 rolls around.....grant it, Bobby, myself and Mckeever took 4...lulz....


----------



## SUR1109

coldcall420 said:


> I can easily see this and also I can see what another member suggested which would be that Lyoto lets Rua come with it the 1st couple rds to feel him out, i could see it but i think it's unlikely, I believe Lyoto will be much more aggressive in this fight....
> 
> Im tryin to decide whether to go all in on Lyoto with the vBookie....:confused02:
> 
> This thread will be easily 30 pages by the time UFC 113 rolls around.....grant it, Bobby, myself and Mckeever took 4...lulz....


man if u go all in thts devotion :thumb02:


----------



## coldcall420

This is cuz I love you guys!!!! Here ya go:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWIsX8iKRk8&NR=1


----------



## Life B Ez

Here we go again......As far as I'm concerned this fight cannot come and go quick enough. No matter who wins it will never end, debating this fight is pointless.

Machida could come out and Swan Kick Shogun in the opening seconds for a KTFO victory and people would still argue. Shogun could rip Lyoto's heart out with his bare hands in the second and people would still argue. 

This is like debating religion, at the end of the day no matter how valid you think your points are, no one is going to go "Oh yeah, you're right, I get it now"


----------



## No_Mercy

This is a really tough fight to call. Very curious as to see what Lyoto has planned to counter those kicks. Last time he tried to counter with left cross which is what he usually does, but Rua's got range + very solid high guard. He always has his hands up, not to mention an iron chin. 

With that being said I would like to see another five round war. As much I want Lyoto to win cuz he's an anomaly I want to see Anderson challenge Rua for the belt then move up to HW. 

Machida has won me money twice, not gonna bet against him though. 

All I can say is this fight will end decisively this time.


----------



## Machida Karate

coldcall420 said:


> This is cuz I love you guys!!!! Here ya go:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWIsX8iKRk8&NR=1


Sick ass VID! I love u too man! :thumb02:

Its funny that any true fan of Machida's is a friend to me!


----------



## BobbyCooper

Machida fans have the heart in the right place


----------



## Machida Karate

BobbyCooper said:


> Machida fans have the heart in the right place


As funny as it sounds, i would probably be good friends with someone even if being Fans of Machida is all we had in common LOL!

Sad but true.... (Metallica)


----------



## Ansem

Nice to see this forum has good taste, Machida for p4p soon!


----------



## Mckeever

Who ever wins this rematch, i think i want to see a 5 round war again, but a more aggressive approach from both fighters with more action, not that there wssnt action in the first, it was a great fight. 

Both fighters must be anxious about leaving it to the judges score cards, so i see a fast paced fight. I cant see either guy getting KO'd, both have proved to have great chins, but if machida decides to brawl with rua, i wouldnt rule out a tko. Either way, that UFC 113 preview got me pumped up. Cant wait for the count down show, i have a feeling its going to be the best yet.


----------



## Danm2501

I had Shogun winning their first encounter; and I see him taking the 2nd one too. 3rd round TKO, finishing Machida off with Ground and Pound after rocking him with a vicious clinch knee.


----------



## swpthleg

This poll is almost as close as the previous decision.


----------



## BobbyCooper

raise01:


----------



## Thelegend

^thats what im talking about right there. i got machida taking this by decision after a dominant performance.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

BobbyCooper said:


> raise01:


Uber sick. :thumb04:

Was that a f*cking katana in Rua's hand in the first one?


----------



## Danm2501

Well, it's a knife that would have been used by a traditional Japanese 'Shogun'; which is a military rank and historical title for a hereditary military dictator of Japan (definition totally not stolen from Wikipedia). Whilst if you look closely Machida is holding the head of a dragon.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

Danm2501 said:


> Well, it's a knife that would have been used by a traditional Japanese 'Shogun'; which is a military rank and historical title for a hereditary military dictator of Japan (definition totally not stolen from Wikipedia). Whilst if you look closely Machida is holding the head of a dragon.


Thats a really long knife(see the smaller image in the middle)


----------



## AmdM

It´s not a katana or a knife.
It´s a Nodachi and shogun should be using it if he wants to defeat Machida Karate.


----------



## streetpunk08

I really can't begin to break down this fight because who knows what either guy is gonna change. Gun to my head I would pick Shogun because I believe he has more ways to win the fight. This is the most anticipated rematch in MMA history imo.


----------



## 420atalon

Shogun should have won the first fight but I think Machida has to be the favourite in the rematch. 

Machida looked a little bit off that fight, not much but just a little. I think this had to do with Shogun's leg kicks and speed. Machida is going to no doubt have been working on overcoming these holes that Shogun made visible. 

I don't think Shogun can really bring anything new to the table. Not unless he works extremely hard and goes for a takedown or something else that Machida wouldn't really expect. He has great kciks and punches and definitely has a chance to win the fight but I think that Machida will have him figured out enough from the first fight to win the majority of the exchanges.


----------



## TraMaI

Machida via UD with much, much less controversy this time. Shogun has never been the same since he stopped being allowed to stomp on people's faces and throw soccer kicks. Machida, I think, was far to tentative in the last fight with his hand being fucked. Now that he's felt what Shogun brings (and he isn't going to bring anything different this time) he's going to plan around it and win this fight pretty solidly.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

AmdM said:


> It´s not a katana or a knife.
> It´s a Nodachi and shogun should be using it if he wants to defeat Machida Karate.


I knew someone was going to say that! I just didn't wanna be the one to do it!


----------



## coldcall420

Squirrelfighter said:


> I knew someone was going to say that! I just didn't wanna be the one to do it!


 
me either.....:thumbsup:


----------



## Life B Ez

Squirrelfighter said:


> I knew someone was going to say that! I just didn't wanna be the one to do it!



That's what everyone said the first time. I don't like all the Shogun people this time, the first fight I was one of the few that thought he was going to win. Now everyone is in Shogun's corner, I hate bandwagons, I was hating Machida before it was cool.


----------



## coldcall420

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWIsX8iKRk8&NR=1


:thumb02:


----------



## alizio

i got Shogun via RNC in the 4th.


----------



## Life B Ez

alizio said:


> i got Shogun via RNC in the 4th.


What the hell have you been smoking? Picking either guy by sub is insane, if someone is going to finish the fight it will be a KO or TKO, both guy's ground game is way to solid to get subbed by the other. This fight will be standing for all five unless someone gets dropped, that is the only time I see this every being on the ground.


----------



## AmdM

Squirrelfighter said:


> I knew someone was going to say that! I just didn't wanna be the one to do it!


What kind of fan would i be if i didn´t jump to suport my favorite fighter?

Go Go Machida

I trust you come with a good gameplan this time!


----------



## alizio

Life B Ez said:


> What the hell have you been smoking? Picking either guy by sub is insane, if someone is going to finish the fight it will be a KO or TKO, both guy's ground game is way to solid to get subbed by the other. This fight will be standing for all five unless someone gets dropped, that is the only time I see this every being on the ground.


 yes. dropped and subbed. he will be hurt get dropped and mounted/near mounted and give up his back in distress and get choked out.

hardly something new in MMA tbh.

and if u must know. blueberry kush and sometimes whiteshark.


----------



## Life B Ez

alizio said:


> yes. dropped and subbed. he will be hurt get dropped and mounted/near mounted and give up his back in distress and get choked out.
> 
> hardly something new in MMA tbh.


I will be shocked if Shogun tries to actually engage on the ground if he drops Machida. If Machida gets dropped Shogun will throw punches til he can't lift his arms anymore, not try to mount and sub him. He might go old school Pride like Wand almost did and stomp him out.


----------



## alizio

idk.

shogun went for a couple TDs in the 1st fight, i really dont think he is scared to engage on the ground.

infact i think he has the advantage there and thats why he wanted it there. Machidas TDD is pretty damn legendary tho and Shogun was smart not to waste alot of energy in the clinch going for those TDs.

I think if he rocked Machida and dropped him, he would be all over him. I just have a feeling Machida wont be easy to finish and this is how it's gonna end.

Cant be worse then all the ppl that called Machida via (easy) KO in the 1st fight. Like a couple KOs suddenly made him Shane Carwin.


----------



## kujo45

I like shogun here; but I'm kinda scared its going to turn into a point match, with both fighters being overly tentative. 

I loved the first fight, but everyone I watched it with was bored to tears. In a dream world, they come at each other throwing bombs, crazy combos, takedown attempts followed by spinning back-kicks. Then reality hits; in such a hyped fight, there is going to be a ton of precaution. First round will be really slow, almost guaranteed. eeeshh; I can already feel myself getting disappointed

If one of these guys can step up with some aggression, and make a major statement; I will loyally hug his nuts for at least the next two years. But I just don't feel like that’s going to happen. 

My realistic prediction is that Machida runs; does a better job of avoiding leg kicks; avoids clinching; and lands a lot of completely harmless counters. Shogun stalks a little bit, throws his leg kicks, is too passive with engaging, and loses another decision. 

I hope I am sooooo wrong, but I'm expecting the worst.


----------



## Life B Ez

kujo45 said:


> I like shogun here; but I'm kinda scared its going to turn into a point match, with both fighters being overly tentative.
> 
> I loved the first fight, but everyone I watched it with was bored to tears. In a dream world, they come at each other throwing bombs, crazy combos, takedown attempts followed by spinning back-kicks. Then reality hits; in such a hyped fight, there is going to be a ton of precaution. First round will be really slow, almost guaranteed. eeeshh; I can already feel myself getting disappointed
> 
> If one of these guys can step up with some aggression, and make a major statement; I will loyally hug his nuts for at least the next two years. But I just don't feel like that’s going to happen.
> 
> My realistic prediction is that Machida runs; does a better job of avoiding leg kicks; avoids clinching; and lands a lot of completely harmless counters. Shogun stalks a little bit, throws his leg kicks, is too passive with engaging, and loses another decision.
> 
> I hope I am sooooo wrong, but I'm expecting the worst.


Not gonna happen, they both are going for the finish, I don't think this is going to get to the championship rounds and if it does, it will have nothing to do with being tentative. It will be because they are just both such great fighters. That is unless Machida decides he's going to backpedal to a decision, but I don't think he's going to, the last thing I think he wants is more controversy involved in a win over Shogun.


----------



## Soojooko

Quiet!... foolish heathens. Prepare a turd shaped space in your brain for the only opinion that counts. Soojooko. Bringer of unbiased opinion... and Machida lover extraordinaire.

Wot i think... is... I'm going to wee on myself sometime in the 4th round when something absolutely magnificent happens. Something we will talk about for millennia. I've no idea what that something is, but it will happen.

I'm hoping its Machida knocking Rua out with a 57 kick mega combo... but my brain refuses to see Rua going down. Its like trying to imagine a lump of granite melting. Hes too tough.

*I. CANT. WAIT.*


----------



## BobbyCooper

You don't need to write a novel about it Soojo^^

just speak it out..

Lyoto Machida TKO/KO Round 4 :thumbsup:

*I. CAN'T. WAIT. EITHER.*


----------



## SM33

Don't know why but I reckon it'll end in round 2 :confused02:


----------



## Soojooko

BobbyCooper said:


> You don't need to write a novel about it Soojo^^
> 
> just speak it out..
> 
> Lyoto Machida TKO/KO Round 4 :thumbsup:
> 
> *I. CAN'T. WAIT. EITHER.*


Honestly Coops... I cant see either getting knocked out. I feed the parameters into my brain but all my imagination throws out is, "CAN NOT COMPUTE!" messages inside my eyeballs and I go a bit wobbly.


----------



## coldcall420

Soojooko said:


> Honestly Coops... I cant see either getting knocked out. I feed the parameters into my brain but all my imagination throws out is, "CAN NOT COMPUTE!" messages inside my eyeballs and I go a bit wobbly.


 
I dont see a k/o....but I def could see a TKO....in the 4th...:thumbsup:


----------



## tripster

I got two tickets, couple of buddies backed out. REDS, 6 rows up from floor, center ring. Fantastic seats!


----------



## BobbyCooper

Soojooko said:


> Honestly Coops... I cant see either getting knocked out. I feed the parameters into my brain but all my imagination throws out is, "CAN NOT COMPUTE!" messages inside my eyeballs and I go a bit wobbly.


Me neither Soojo.. me neither! The chances are very low.. but we can hope^^ I see this fight to end with a decisive decision victory from Lyoto. The chances for a KO or even TKO are so low.. both are just too good! 

But anyway, indifferent on how this fight will end, we will see at least a third meeting.

PS: whats up with the poll Coldcall??  makes me angry lol^^ can we ban some of the guys who took Shogun?


----------



## coldcall420

BobbyCooper said:


> Me neither Soojo.. me neither! The chances are very low.. but we can hope^^ I see this fight to end with a decisive decision victory from Lyoto. The chances for a KO or even TKO are so low.. both are just too good!
> 
> But anyway, indifferent on how this fight will end, we will see at least a third meeting.
> 
> PS: whats up with the poll Coldcall??  makes me angry lol^^ can we ban some of the guys who took Shogun?


 
Bobby, we can only hope they realize the second time around.....I'll post it again though....:thumbsup:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWIsX8iKRk8&NR=1


----------



## BobbyCooper

haha third time^^ :thumb02:

guess they like to ignore it.. gladly :thumbsdown:


----------



## coldcall420

BobbyCooper said:


> haha third time^^ :thumb02:
> 
> guess they like to ignore it.. gladly :thumbsdown:


It can only be ignored until its totally evident....:thumbsup: You know i'll get it in a 4th time before this thread is done!!!


----------



## BobbyCooper

I will make it 5 then


----------



## swpthleg

My birthday is a few days after the fight. Regardless of the likelihood, Machida getting the KO over Shogun would be the best birthday present ever.

Well, that, and a wine rack, and satellite radio in the car, and a fire bowl. OK, I'm done now.


----------



## coldcall420

swpthleg said:


> My birthday is a few days after the fight. Regardless of the likelihood, Machida getting the KO over Shogun would be the best birthday present ever.
> 
> Well, that, and a wine rack, and satellite radio in the car, and a fire bowl. OK, I'm done now.


 
Bowl????


----------



## The505Butcher

I think this is the closest poll I have ver seen on here right now. 43-44


----------



## Ansem

It's actually even 44-44, just goes to show how close these fighters are, one wrong move and the other one can be knocked out, I can see a Machida - Shogun 3 coming late next year probably.


----------



## The Legacy

This fight is so close to call. Both are brilliant and one mistake from either man could lead to the end.

I'm picking Lyoto in this one. I thought that Shogun pretty much fought the perfect fight last time out, but can he do it all over again, against a Lyoto who should come in with a better gameplan? I don't think so.

Lyoto by decision.


----------



## The505Butcher

Ansem said:


> It's actually even 44-44, just goes to show how close these fighters are, one wrong move and the other one can be knocked out, I can see a Machida - Shogun 3 coming late next year probably.


Hopefully not. I like the fight and the build up because both these guys are so evenly matched coming in to this fight. But I want to see someone else fight for the title.


----------



## Life B Ez

The505Butcher said:


> Hopefully not. I like the fight and the build up because both these guys are so evenly matched coming in to this fight. But I want to see someone else fight for the title.


The only way there will be a Shogun Machida III is if Shogun wins a really close fight at 113.


----------



## The505Butcher

Life B Ez said:


> The only way there will be a Shogun Machida III is if Shogun wins a really close fight at 113.


Yeah I know but like even then would they really have a third rematch right after? I hope not.


----------



## Ansem

The505Butcher said:


> Hopefully not. I like the fight and the build up because both these guys are so evenly matched coming in to this fight. But I want to see someone else fight for the title.


Yeah, I wud too but these guys are arguably the top of their division, the only one I can see coming to their level would be Lil Nog, I doubt Jon Jones would be able to stand with either of them.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Life B Ez said:


> The only way there will be a Shogun Machida III is if Shogun wins a really close fight at 113.





The505Butcher said:


> Yeah I know but like even then would they really have a third rematch right after? I hope not.


No no guys, a third fight is already booked actually. Even if Lyoto KO's Shogun or Shogun Lyoto, then either of these guys will make there way to a title shot again pretty quickly. Probably after 2, 3 fights..


----------



## The505Butcher

Ansem said:


> Yeah, I wud too but these guys are arguably the top of their division, the only ones I can see coming to their level would be Lil Nog, I doubt Jon Jones would be able to stand with either of them.


I disagree. I put Jon Jones as the guy to beat the champion if it is Rua or Machida. Lil Nog is good and we should not count out Rashad/Rampage. I don't think Rampage could beat them but he has a possibility and if Rashad sticks to wrestling as his strength I would not count him out either. 

Point is I would rather see those fights before I see another Rua/Machida fight. I need something new! Maybe that is just me though.


----------



## Life B Ez

The505Butcher said:


> Yeah I know but like even then would they really have a third rematch right after? I hope not.


I don't think it will be an instance rematch, I think the winner of Rashad/Rampage will get a shot, possibly Lil Nog maybe even Jones, before they fight again, but if this fight is a war, I would be shocked if there was never a Machida Shogun 3.


----------



## Ansem

The505Butcher said:


> I disagree. I put Jon Jones as the guy to beat the champion if it is Rua or Machida. Lil Nog is good and we should not count out Rashad/Rampage. I don't think Rampage could beat them but he has a possibility and if Rashad sticks to wrestling as his strength I would not count him out either.
> 
> Point is I would rather see those fights before I see another Rua/Machida fight. I need something new! Maybe that is just me though.


I'm just saying I've yet to see anyone other then Machida and Shogun who can be so perfect at any part of their game, Lil Nig is definitely good but I've yet to see him against Forrest, and Jon Jones I think is hyped up due to his figure.


----------



## Danm2501

Life B Ez said:


> I don't think it will be an instance rematch, I think the winner of Rashad/Rampage will get a shot, possibly *Lil Nog* maybe even Jones, before they fight again, but if this fight is a war, I would be shocked if there was never a Machida Shogun 3.


Or Forrest  Nog's not got that fight won yet. There are loads of potential top contenders at LHW; I don't think we'll see 3 Machida-Shogun encounters in a row. I see a finish inside 5 rounds in this 2nd one, hopefully in favour of Shogun. Rashad Evans, Rampage Jackson, Antonio Rogerio Nogueira, Forrest Griffin, Jon Jones and maybe even Randy Couture could be in line for a Title shot with another win.


----------



## The505Butcher

Ansem said:


> I'm just saying I've yet to see anyone other then Machida and Shogun who can be so perfect at any part of their game, Lil Nig is definitely good but I've yet to see him against Forrest, and Jon Jones I think is hyped up due to his figure.


He is hyped due to his figure? I am sorry after the way he owned Hammil and Vera and the way that he fights I think he has got it in him. 

Yeah I for sure think this will be another fight somewhere in the future. I just don't want another instant rematch. I think if you win you win and let the loser work his way back up.


----------



## Life B Ez

The505Butcher said:


> He is hyped due to his figure? I am sorry after the way he owned Hammil and Vera and the way that he fights I think he has got it in him.
> 
> Yeah I for sure think this will be another fight somewhere in the future. I just don't want another instant rematch. I think if you win you win and let the loser work his way back up.


I'm still not convinced about Jone yet, he hasn't beaten anyone close to the top 10 yet. He has some talent, but I think all the hype that he could beat Machida and Shogun right now is crazy. Beating Brandon Vera isn't that impressive, Vera was scared to death to execute anything. Not that I think Vera could have won anyway, but still he just laid down and took a beating. Hammil hurt his shoulder early in the fight with Jones, so we really have no idea what that would have looked like had Matt not been injured. I'm waiting to see Jones get a fight with a serious contender, I'd like to see him fight the loser of Rampage Rashad, or possibly the winner of Liddell Franklin.


----------



## The505Butcher

Life B Ez said:


> I'm still not convinced about Jone yet, he hasn't beaten anyone close to the top 10 yet. He has some talent, but I think all the hype that he could beat Machida and Shogun right now is crazy. Beating Brandon Vera isn't that impressive, Vera was scared to death to execute anything. Not that I think Vera could have won anyway, but still he just laid down and took a beating. Hammil hurt his shoulder early in the fight with Jones, so we really have no idea what that would have looked like had Matt not been injured. I'm waiting to see Jones get a fight with a serious contender, I'd like to see him fight the loser of Rampage Rashad, or possibly the winner of Liddell Franklin.


Yeah I would like that too. I don't think Jones deserves a title shot right now but there is just something about him that when I watch his fights I think he can take on anyone. Maybe I am just crazy.


----------



## Life B Ez

The505Butcher said:


> Yeah I would like that too. I don't think Jones deserves a title shot right now but there is just something about him that when I watch his fights I think he can take on anyone. Maybe I am just crazy.


Well he always looks good, but like I said he hasn't really been tested yet, Vera and Hammil aren't going to be confused for contenders anytime soon. It's kind of the same thing as Cain, before the Kongo fight, I want to see someone take him into deep water before I can make a real guess on whether he can compete for a title or not.


----------



## alizio

i agree with that. im always weary when im backing guys i havent seen in any trouble, you just never know how somebody will react to you see it 1st hand.

i dont care who you are or how talented you are, you fight long enough you are gonna be put in a tough spot at some point.

the difference between good fighters and great ones really. great ones overcome situations even many professional fighters mentally quit in.

Jones has looked fantastic but we dont know what its gonna be like when a top guy puts him in trouble.

I think too many ppl dismiss Bader. He will be a top guy soon, aswell.


----------



## coldcall420

The505Butcher said:


> I disagree. I put Jon Jones as the guy to beat the champion if it is Rua or Machida. Lil Nog is good and we should not count out Rashad/Rampage. I don't think Rampage could beat them but he has a possibility and if Rashad sticks to wrestling as his strength I would not count him out either.
> 
> Point is I would rather see those fights before I see another Rua/Machida fight. I need something new! Maybe that is just me though.


 
You literally probably named the one giuy in the dvision that has the potential and also leaves himself the most expsed...MOST certainly he would advance on Lyoto Jon Jones would and when he does he will, as any fighter does, leave himself open to counter attack......Lyoto's bred and butter, an easy fight for Machida....


----------



## Ansem

coldcall420 said:


> You literally probably named the one giuy in the dvision that has the potential and also leaves himself the most expsed...MOST certainly he would advance on Lyoto Jon Jones would and when he does he will, as any fighter does, leave himself open to counter attack......Lyoto's bred and butter, an easy fight for Machida....


Agreed.


----------



## The505Butcher

coldcall420 said:


> You literally probably named the one giuy in the dvision that has the potential and also leaves himself the most expsed...MOST certainly he would advance on Lyoto Jon Jones would and when he does he will, as any fighter does, leave himself open to counter attack......Lyoto's bred and butter, an easy fight for Machida....


I am not saying it won't be a hard fight but I just think if Jones can get Machida down he can beat anybody. I don't see him leaving himself open as much as you say he does but maybe I am wrong.


----------



## Ansem

The505Butcher said:


> I am not saying it won't be a hard fight but I just think if Jones can get Machida down he can beat anybody. I don't see him leaving himself open as much as you say he does but maybe I am wrong.


I think Jones leaves himself quite exposed when hes on the ground as well, but like everyone said previously he needs to be tested to say for sure.


----------



## coldcall420

The505Butcher said:


> I am not saying it won't be a hard fight but I just think if Jones can get Machida down he can beat anybody. I don't see him leaving himself open as much as you say he does but maybe I am wrong.


It would be the first time anyone has gotten him down to the ground, that alone would be an accomplishment but I dont see it happening....like I said he literally plays right into the type of fighter Lyoto excels against.....


----------



## The505Butcher

coldcall420 said:


> It would be the first time anyone has gotten him down to the ground, that alone would be an accomplishment but I dont see it happening....like I said he literally plays right into the type of fighter Lyoto excels against.....


Maybe your right. I will wait to see him fight someone he should lose to and wait to see him in a tough spot before I say he will beat Machida for sure. I just have a feeling. Maybe I am completely wrong.

Awesome. 46-46 right now. (back onto the thread.)


----------



## vance223

NEVER been more excited for a fight!


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Welcome to the forum! :thumbsup:


----------



## swpthleg

That's a great poster. Welcome to the forum!


----------



## ScouseMMAfan

I want Shogun to win but i see Lyoto (who i am also a fan off but lesser than shogun) winning a UD by fighting the smartfight. 

It is sure to be two top fighters in the most tantilizing and tactical matchup ever i cant Fukin wait. Also even if shogun wins or loses there could be a Rua vs Noguiera 2 which will be fkn AWSOME!!!!!!


----------



## Life B Ez

I think Lyoto will win, I'm not a fan but I think he'll fight a very tactical fight and go to the judges. I think in the first fight he wanted to finish the fight and the plan was to brawl with Shogun and KO him. After the first fight, I don't think Lyoto will try that again. Going punch for punch with Shogun is not a good idea for anyone.


----------



## ScouseMMAfan

Jones will be the best wrestler Machida has faced so dont count him out. An how does it play into Lyotos game as strikers fit that bill more than what Jon Jones is.

Anyways i just think Jon jones is too goddamn young yet he has alot to learn to broadern out his game so throwing him right in the mix with the top guys of the division could be a risk if he loses.

Although he does need a test.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Shogun Interview!





and guys you have to watch this one here.. I haven't seen it yet and I am sure, it opens a lot of peoples eyes one more time! ENJOY :thumbsup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWIsX8iKRk8&NR=1


----------



## SUR1109

soo i hav a question if shogun wins a close decision how long til Machida shogun3???


----------



## vance223

probably not, Rampage didn't and I don't think there would be a lot of interest in a 3rd straight fight.


----------



## coldcall420

That clip was great....I got to hear highlights of Joe* ONLY* noticing the strikes Rua landed....awesome!!! Repped...:thumbsup:


----------



## Life B Ez

SUR1109 said:


> soo i hav a question if shogun wins a close decision how long til Machida shogun3???


It won't be right away, it will happen, but somewhere down the road after a couple of fights. Unless Shogun loses in his first defense, then we'd see Shogun Machida 3 as a number one contender fight.


----------



## Roflcopter

BobbyCooper said:


> Shogun Interview!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and guys you have to watch this one here.. I haven't seen it yet and I am sure, it opens a lot of peoples eyes one more time! ENJOY :thumbsup:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWIsX8iKRk8&NR=1


Horribly biased video. I like how it mentions something about Shougun paying for his leg kicks then shows two blocked counters. This guy must be as dumb as the judging panel to score that shit. That and the few punched Machida landed clean have no effect because he has no pop on his punches.


----------



## Life B Ez

I love all the Karate Kid fans saying he is going to KO Shogun, I honestly don't think Lyoto has the power to knock him out. The man has never been KO'd and he's fought some seriously powerful punchers. Rampage, Liddell, Overeem, Lil Nog and the only guy in that group he didn't KO is Lil Nog. 

There is one spot in the fight that makes me say if Machida is going to win, it will be by a decision, it is the end of the third. When Machida "rocked" Shogun and pushed him to the cage and started throwing "bombs" Shogun gets caught clean a couple times and doesn't buckle or even really waiver. He takes the punches and throws one right hand, which was enough to "rock" Machida enough to make Lyoto clinch.......

I still think Lyoto is going to win this fight, but I can't see a finish from him. I think he'll avoid flurries and exchanges and out point Shogun.


----------



## Tacx0911

All we have to do is watch the rematch and see who wins. Machida already won last time. Let's see what will happen next.


----------



## Jamal

*UFC 113: Mauricio 'Shogun' Rua to make a statement in Lyoto Machida rematch (Video)*

UFC 113: Mauricio 'Shogun' Rua to make a statement in Lyoto Machida rematch (Video) 

by MMAmania.com on Apr 26, 2010 9:36 PM EDT 

http://www.mmamania.com/2010/4/26/1446089/ufc-113-mauricio-shogun-rua-to






---------------

WAR SHOGUN!!!!


----------



## Life B Ez

Got posted in the official thread. Still a cool video though.


----------



## Jamal

Oh really, damn.

Im expecting Shogun to take this, hes gonna be hungry as hell after that decision


----------



## Life B Ez

I want Shogun, but I'm thinking Machida will backpedal his way to a decision.


----------



## AmdM

The worst translation ever!

It confused the hell out of me, hearing what he was saying and then looking at the subs telling a diferent story.

lol


----------



## Bruce Buffer

I'm going with Shogun.. I think Machida is beatable and I think Shogun is the man for it..


----------



## drey2k

Machida WILL win this fight. Rua had his chance, he is not going to be able to do that again.


----------



## BobbyCooper

:thumb02:


----------



## coldcall420

Roflcopter said:


> Horribly biased video. I like how it mentions something about Shougun paying for his leg kicks then shows two blocked counters. This guy must be as dumb as the judging panel to score that shit. That and the few punched Machida landed clean have no effect because he has no pop on his punches.


 
Why is the video biased??? I mean all you hear during the video is Rogan all over Shoguns nuts...

Reality is Machida has plently of Pop in his punches he is a counter fighter and Karate fighters fight with a more traditional stance that does not allow for the total rotation of the hips, thus not generating as much power as someone who fights from a more traditional stance!! The benefit for Machida is his awesome ability to switch from traditional to southpaw in one step....

He will counter Shogun in this fight and seriously at the end of the day we are prop looking at a Machida victory via decision.....


----------



## Mckeever

coldcall420 said:


> Why is the video biased??? I mean all you hear during the video is Rogan all over Shoguns nuts...
> 
> Reality is Machida has plently of Pop in his punches he is a counter fighter and Karate fighters fight with a more traditional stance that does not allow for the total rotation of the hips, thus not generating as much power as someone who fights from a more traditional stance!! The benefit for Machida is his awesome ability to switch from traditional to southpaw in one step....
> 
> He will counter Shogun in this fight and seriously at the end of the day we are prop looking at a Machida victory via decision.....


I agree that Machida landed his fair share of punches and kicks in the fight, how ever, the fact is that shogun rua landed MORE strikes and the HARDER strikes throughout the fight, various statistical evidence clearly shows this. I do think rogans commentary was slightly biased towards rua throughout the fight, but it certainly wasnt rogans commentary that clouded the judgement of the entire audience in the arena and every person watching back home.


----------



## coldcall420

Mckeever said:


> I agree that Machida landed his fair share of punches and kicks in the fight, how ever, the fact is that shogun rua landed MORE strikes and the HARDER strikes throughout the fight, various statistical evidence clearly shows this. I do think rogans commentary was slightly biased towards rua throughout the fight, but it certainly wasnt rogans commentary that clouded the judgement of the entire audience in the arena and every person watching back home.


 
Yeah I think that fightmetric is bullshit, it has been picked apart in several controversial fights and this one is no exception. The fact of the matter is every time Rua threw a leg kick he either missed or landed and Lyoto countered them. i expect that this next fight will be similar but there will be an answer for hose leg kicks and i have said before...Andersons Muay Thai coach used to be Lyoto's so you will see an adjustment for sure. Im just hoping its enough for a 4th round TKO....:thumb02:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWIsX8iKRk8&NR=1


----------



## Mckeever

coldcall420 said:


> Yeah I think that fightmetric is bullshit, it has been picked apart in several controversial fights and this one is no exception. The fact of the matter is every time Rua threw a leg kick he either missed or landed and Lyoto countered them. i expect that this next fight will be similar but there will be an answer for hose leg kicks and i have said before...Andersons Muay Thai coach used to be Lyoto's so you will see an adjustment for sure. Im just hoping its enough for a 4th round TKO....:thumb02:
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWIsX8iKRk8&NR=1


Thats why i said "various statistical evidence", not just fight metric shows rua landing more, harder strikes y'know. They are just the facts man. It was close, machida landed some good, solid strikes, rua landed even more solid strikes, a significant amount more. I dont think either man will be KO'd, both have proven to have excellent chins.


----------



## alizio

ive never really seen machida take many flush shots to the chin to really say that. His style makes getting those kind of shots in a very tough proposition.

Shogun def has a chin.

i dont care whos trainer you have. you cant be anderson. you cant fight in that karate stance and suddenly avoid the leg kicks.

Machidas answer will likely be counters again. just better counters.

FTR i dont think Machida hits particularly hard but his accuracy, timing and handspeed makes up for that.


----------



## coldcall420

alizio said:


> ive never really seen machida take many flush shots to the chin to really say that. His style makes getting those kind of shots in a very tough proposition.
> 
> Shogun def has a chin.
> 
> i dont care whos trainer you have. you cant be anderson. you cant fight in that karate stance and suddenly avoid the leg kicks.
> 
> Machidas answer will likely be counters again. just better counters.
> 
> FTR i dont think Machida hits particularly hard but his accuracy, timing and handspeed makes up for that.


You absoloutley can stand in Karate stance and avoid those leg kicks, its called pivots and movement mixed with slightly different counter attacks.....the fact he trained with Anderson's Muay Thai coach certainly isnt a disadvantage for Lyoto, this wasnt something he did to get ready for Shogun 2......Lyoto trained with Andersons coach for 2 yrs before Anderson ever did. The point was you will prob see a little more Muay Thai out of Lyoto and again in Karate there are def techniques to avoid those leg kicks, your not gonna miss everyone but i bet you notice a significant difference in the 2nd fight....


I agree the speed is what kills for Lyoto but he can knock guys out, it just may not be with one strike....:thumbsup:


----------



## evilappendix

Man I can't wait for this fight. I had to vote for Shogun because that's where my loyalty is. He should set up the take down and go for a sub. It won't be the technical striking fest I'd like to see, but it will probably catch Lyoto off guard. At least more so than Shogun going for the ko.


----------



## alizio

evilappendix said:


> Man I can't wait for this fight. I had to vote for Shogun because that's where my loyalty is. He should set up the take down and go for a sub. It won't be the technical striking fest I'd like to see, but it will probably catch Lyoto off guard. At least more so than Shogun going for the ko.


 hehe i got shogun by sub in the 4th.

i really think he should mix it up or at least give Machida the impression he is gonna go for more takedowns in different situations.

try n get machida focused on those leg kicks and go for TDs under Machidas usual counter left. 

it might not work but giving Machida more to think about cant be a bad thing. Im sure the leg kicks are gonna weigh on his mind pre fight as they weighed on his inner thigh in the last post fight.


----------



## Syxx Paq

The Japanese Brazilian wins again.


----------



## coldcall420

So I guess the Shogun fans looking for a sub expect that Shogun will be able to get Machida on the ground?? That happens all the time in Machida fights...:confused05: All respect to everyone...we all have our opinions....I just dont see a submission in this fight....thats actually probably the last thing I would expect to see.....IMO


----------



## Danm2501

Yeah, I don't see it ending via submission either. It'll either go to a decision, or Shogun will knock Lyoto down with a clinch knee and finish him with Ground and Pound. I'm a Shogun fanboy though, so of course I'm going to predict that


----------



## AmdM

Gonna put all my credits in for Machida. 
Thast´s how confident i´m towards his win. (was watching Leno´s earlier)  

raise01:

p.s. - Bobbycooper, that gif made me spray water all over the keyboard (i was drinking water) :thumb02:


----------



## Life B Ez

BobbyCooper said:


> :thumb02:


Hahaha, OMG that funny as hell!


----------



## The505Butcher

BobbyCooper said:


> :thumb02:


Awesome. Please god make the commentary not like that last one.


----------



## No_Mercy

Dayam that gif looks like it belongs in an Atari game.


----------



## Nomale

BobbyCooper said:


> :thumb02:


Except Shogun's kicks were more damaging than anything Machida threw.


----------



## Ansem

Nomale said:


> Except Shogun's kicks were more damaging than anything Machida threw.


Is that so? if that was the case then Shogun should have finished it, I don't see why he would play it safe if he truly thought Lyoto couldnt spring and counter, fact was Lyoto still could.


----------



## Life B Ez

Ansem said:


> Is that so? if that was the case then Shogun should have finished it, I don't see why he would play it safe if he truly thought Lyoto couldnt spring and counter, fact was Lyoto still could.


So because Shogun landed more strikes and more powerful strikes he should have finished the fight.............

Perhaps neither guy landed anything very powerful, but the appearance of the two fighters after it was over speaks volumes on who landed with more power. 

I don't think either man landed anything devastating, but Machida was hardly stinging Shogun.


----------



## Nomale

Here is a more correct version of the previous *biased* gif.


----------



## Life B Ez

Nomale said:


> Here is a more correct version of the previous *biased* gif.


Hahaha thats great.

The main problem with both of them, is Shogun landed twice as many strikes as Machida.


----------



## Ansem

If Shogun wins this fight I will give credit where its due, but if Machida does which he will, I expect the same from you Shogun fans.

p.s I'm a fan of Shogun, but Machida is my favorite so I can see where my bias lies but I'm not blind to see how the fight went.


----------



## Nomale

Life B Ez said:


> Hahaha thats great.
> 
> The main problem with both of them, is Shogun landed twice as many strikes as Machida.


Yeah, but I think the Rogan-critics mean that even in the sequences when Machida threw more, Rogan was still gasping over Shogun's kicks.


----------



## Life B Ez

Ansem said:


> If Shogun wins this fight I will give credit where its due, but if Machida does which he will, I expect the same from you Shogun fans.
> 
> p.s I'm a fan of Shogun, but Machida is my favorite so I can see where my bias lies but I'm not blind to see how the fight went.


I'll give anyone credit who puts on a fight, I'm not part of one of the camps in this. I was at the first fight and thought Shogun won. If Machida backpedals his way to win a I won't give him credit and if Shogun roundhouses his way to the judges I won't give him credit. 

If either guy finishes the other, they deserve credit or if one clearly wins a decision then I'll give them credit. 

If it's as bad a decision as it was the first time, I don't care who takes the belt home, I won't be happy.



> Yeah, but I think the Rogan-critics mean that even in the sequences when Machida threw more, Rogan was still gasping over Shogun's kicks.


Here's my issue with that, if you feel you know enough about MMA that you could disagree or even agree and score a fight from a judges stand point, you shouldn't be able to be swayed by commentary.


----------



## coldcall420

Life B Ez said:


> Hahaha thats great.
> 
> The main problem with both of them, is Shogun landed twice as many strikes as Machida.


 
Based off what fightmetric???


----------



## Syxx Paq

I honestly dont get how so many people can hold a grudge for so long. I dont think shogun would even have a rematch if there was someone else who could legitimately take the next match.


----------



## Hawndo

Ansem said:


> If Shogun wins this fight I will give credit where its due, but if Machida does which he will, I expect the same from you Shogun fans.
> 
> p.s I'm a fan of Shogun, but Machida is my favorite so I can see where my bias lies but I'm not blind to see how the fight went.


If Machida can win decisively then sure I will give him props. In my mind Shogun is the champ just now but since neither fighter clearly outshone the other the first time, if there is a clear cut winner this time then either way it goes I'll be happy, so long as it is a good fight and we have a clear cut champion so we can move on.


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> Based off what fightmetric???


http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html

I'm really sick of this argument, but there you go.


----------



## coldcall420

Life B Ez said:


> http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html
> 
> I'm really sick of this argument, but there you go.


 
Fightmetric is bullshit dude, how many times have we seen it be discredited on this very forum by respected members that broke the fight down blow by blow???

If its fact then it isnt an argument, and Im not tryin to argue, Im just merely pointing out you make this statement off unreliable statistics....:thumbsup:


----------



## SigFig

coldcall420 said:


> Fightmetric is bullshit dude, how many times have we seen it be discredited on this very forum by respected members that broke the fight down blow by blow???
> 
> If its fact then it isnt an argument, and Im not tryin to argue, Im just merely pointing out you make this statement off unreliable statistics....:thumbsup:


QFT.

People lean way too much on fightmetric / compustrike / etc. Nice little tools but hardly the ipso facto decider of an mma bout.


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> Fightmetric is bullshit dude, how many times have we seen it be discredited on this very forum by respected members that broke the fight down blow by blow???
> 
> If its fact then it isnt an argument, and Im not tryin to argue, Im just merely pointing out you make this statement off unreliable statistics....:thumbsup:





SigFig said:


> QFT.
> 
> People lean way too much on fightmetric / compustrike / etc. Nice little tools but hardly the ipso facto decider of an mma bout.


I never said either was something that determined a winner, I never even mentioned who I thought won. Just said guys that keep track of strikes thrown in an MMA event counted Shogun as landing about twice as many strikes as Machida.

Prefer CompuStrike ColdCall? They've got about the same thing, I thought I had CompuStrike originally, didn't really take the time to look, not much of a fan of FightMetric myself.

http://compustrike.com/stats_files/ufc_104/MacHida-Rua.HTM

Not as tipped, but a little less then half as many landed.


----------



## alizio

those systems are all biased towards shogun sfobv!!

only the machida fans know which blows truely landed.

coldcall is right about one thing, it is pointless to argue. there are no facts in this fight. ppl just say w/e they want, no 3rd party system is good enough. we should just listen to the word of admitted fans of machida.

let me ask you this, if you can take the tinfoil hats off for a second (dont get all bent just trying to have some fun).

Why are the ppl are fightmetric and compustrike making up numbers in favor of Shogun??

are they just inaccurate all the time?? both systems?? are they just inaccurate when it comes to this fight??

how you ppl have a discussion when you cant even agree on what happened that night??

lol its ridiculous. i hope we see a clear cut winner this time out.


----------



## Life B Ez

alizio said:


> those systems are all biased towards shogun sfobv!!
> 
> only the machida fans know which blows truely landed.
> 
> coldcall is right about one thing, it is pointless to argue. there are no facts in this fight. ppl just say w/e they want, no 3rd party system is good enough. we should just listen to the word of admitted fans of machida.
> 
> let me ask you this, if you can take the tinfoil hats off for a second (dont get all bent just trying to have some fun).
> 
> Why are the ppl are fightmetric and compustrike making up numbers in favor of Shogun??
> 
> are they just inaccurate all the time?? both systems?? are they just inaccurate when it comes to this fight??
> 
> how you ppl have a discussion when you cant even agree on what happened that night??
> 
> lol its ridiculous. i hope we see a clear cut winner this time out.


I'd be willing to bet had the numbers been reversed and the decision went to Shogun, Machida fans would be all over this board posting the link. 

But as has been said it's stupid to argue, Machida "won" no matter what any of us think.


----------



## coldcall420

Life B Ez said:


> I never said either was something that determined a winner, I never even mentioned who I thought won. Just said guys that keep track of strikes thrown in an MMA event counted Shogun as landing about twice as many strikes as Machida.
> 
> Prefer CompuStrike ColdCall? They've got about the same thing, I thought I had CompuStrike originally, didn't really take the time to look, not much of a fan of FightMetric myself.
> 
> http://compustrike.com/stats_files/ufc_104/MacHida-Rua.HTM
> 
> Not as tipped, but a little less then half as many landed.


FTR...I never thought you said he won I was just questioning the statement that Shogun landed twice as many....he didnt....FACT!:thumbsup:



@ alizio there are the possibilities that Shogun or Machida landed less or more strikes, the bottom line is the system is flawed and there are plenty of legit people that have picked the system apart......

Those tin foil statements about Machida fans are just lame...not funny lame....


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> FTR...I never thought you said he won I was just questioning the statement that Shogun landed twice as many....he didnt....FACT!:thumbsup:


Can I see where you found he didn't? Because I've given you two sources that say he landed close to, or more than twice as many. You've just said he didn't, you asked me to give you something to back up my statement, so I'll ask you for the same.


----------



## BobbyCooper

You have to count the strikes by your own Ez! You will see how inaccurate they are.


----------



## Life B Ez

BobbyCooper said:


> You have to count the strikes by your own Ez! You will see how inaccurate they are.


You've sat down and counted the strikes, okay. Did Machida land more? Honestly the only "powerful" strike I remember Machida even landing was right before he pushed Shogun back into the cage in the third and the knees that opened the fight.

And that's hardly a source btw. They are just inaccurate because they don't give the Karate Kid the win. I'm pretty sure if they are as bad as you make them out to be, people wouldn't listen to them.........I'm starting to think alizio might be right. I just don't know what lands and doesn't.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Life B Ez said:


> You've sat down and counted the strikes, okay. Did Machida land more? Honestly the only "powerful" strike I remember Machida even landing was right before he pushed Shogun back into the cage in the third and the knees that opened the fight.
> 
> And that's hardly a source btw. They are just inaccurate because they don't give the Karate Kid the win. I'm pretty sure if they are as bad as you make them out to be, people wouldn't listen to them.........I'm starting to think alizio might be right. I just don't know what lands and doesn't.


I did it for the first 3 Rounds. And as far as I can remember, it was close! But if you do it by your own, you have to use a tolerance too of course. And the most important part is, that you only need to count the first 3 rounds. Everything afterwards doesn't really matter, cause the judges gave Machida 1,2,3. So it doesn't matter if Shogun landed 100 more blows at Machida in round 4 and 5. Plus you have to consider the more powerful strikes.. and on and on..

Fighmetrics total result on strikes is pretty worthless in this case, if you score the fight on the current MMA scoring system.


----------



## Life B Ez

BobbyCooper said:


> I did it for the first 3 Rounds. And as far as I can remember, it was close! But if you do it by your own, you have to use a tolerance too of course. And the most important part is, that you only need to count the first 3 rounds. Everything afterwards doesn't really matter, cause the judges gave Machida 1,2,3. So it doesn't matter if Shogun landed 100 more blows at Machida in round 4 and 5. Plus you have to consider the more powerful strikes.. and on and on..
> 
> Fighmetrics total result on strikes is pretty worthless in this case, if you score the fight on the current MMA scoring system.


I never said anything about using it to score the fight, I just said they count him as landing twice as many. 

And not to be an asshole but, if Shogun landed 100 strikes to 0 in 4 and 5 I think those rounds might be 10-8, just saying haha.


----------



## coldcall420

Life B Ez said:


> You've sat down and counted the strikes, okay. Did Machida land more? Honestly the only "powerful" strike I remember Machida even landing was right before he pushed Shogun back into the cage in the third and the knees that opened the fight.
> 
> And that's hardly a source btw. They are just inaccurate because they don't give the Karate Kid the win. I'm pretty sure if they are as bad as you make them out to be, people wouldn't listen to them.........I'm starting to think alizio might be right. I just don't know what lands and doesn't.


 
Do you remember the original thread after the first fight the Official thread???? Well I believe Sookoojo broke the entire fight down blow by blow and posted it on the forum. You can Pm him and ask him if he still has it or better yet do an advanced search....

I understand you asking but im not sure I am able to find the thread...regardless there have been many more:http://www.fightmetric.com/fights/Edgar-Penn.html

here is an example that you may not agree with, many people thought BJ won but Frankie did.....Fightmetric though BJ won...the point is it isnt accurate to some fans of a fighter and it is to others depending on who the fighter is......

Also Fightmetric is based off strikes and position thrown when striking....therefore it is being scored by someone based of what they percieve as a certain blow versus what might be....


----------



## BobbyCooper

Life B Ez said:


> I never said anything about using it to score the fight, I just said they count him as landing twice as many.
> 
> And not to be an asshole but, if Shogun landed 100 strikes to 0 in 4 and 5 I think those rounds might be 10-8, just saying haha.


haha No. Under the current scoring system the judges only give out 10:8 rounds if you are flat out cold ;D But not that we get confused here lol^^ Shogun did barely enough to get a 10:9 in those last two. 
I know the whole scoring system is messed up.. but under the current System, Lyoto won that fight in my eyes!!!


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> Do you remember the original thread after the first fight the Official thread???? Well I believe Sookoojo broke the entire fight down blow by blow and posted it on the forum. You can Pm him and ask him if he still has it or better yet do an advanced search....
> 
> I understand you asking but im not sure I am able to find the thread...regardless there have been many more:http://www.fightmetric.com/fights/Edgar-Penn.html
> 
> here is an example that you may not agree with, many people thought BJ won but Frankie did.....Fightmetric though BJ won...the point is it isnt accurate to some fans of a fighter and it is to others depending on who the fighter is......
> 
> Also Fightmetric is based off strikes and position thrown when striking....therefore it is being scored by someone based of what they percieve as a certain blow versus what might be....


You're still acting like I said because fightmetric/comupstrike said Shogun landed more he won the fight. I don't use that for scoring a fight. 

As you know, I think Shogun won, but it has nothing to do with what Compustrike said haha. I gave Shogun 2,4 and 5 and possibly three, except for the flurry at the end, which I knew went to Machida. The fight was way too close to just look at numbers. 

Also as far as what landed, that's always debatable too, you could show 100 people some of the strikes from that fight and you'd probably get a dead split of some saying it landed and other saying it was blocked. So you do have a point, Compustrike is just from one point of view, but so is Sookoojo's breakdown, as is yours and mine. Everyone is going to be biased depending on who they wanted to win the fight. CompuStrike is a third party, so it's the best we're going to get at an unbiased count, but like I said everyone is going to see strikes differently.




> haha No. Under the current scoring system the judges only give out 10:8 rounds if you are flat out cold ;D But not that we get confused here lol^^ Shogun did barely enough to get a 10:9 in those last two.
> I know the whole scoring system is messed up.. but under the current System, Lyoto won that fight in my eyes!!!


Yeah the scoring system is f*cked for sure, if it wasn't a ten point must, I think this fight would have been a draw, just about every round could be scored 10-10. And the Karate Kid wouldn't do so well under Pride rules, he'd be yellow carded into poverty, then DQ'd. That backpedaling stuff wouldn't fly.


----------



## coldcall420

Life B Ez said:


> You're still acting like I said because fightmetric/comupstrike said Shogun landed more he won the fight. I don't use that for scoring a fight.
> 
> As you know, I think Shogun won, but it has nothing to do with what Compustrike said haha. I gave Shogun 2,4 and 5 and possibly three, except for the flurry at the end, which I knew went to Machida. The fight was way too close to just look at numbers.
> 
> Also as far as what landed, that's always debatable too, you could show 100 people some of the strikes from that fight and you'd probably get a dead split of some saying it landed and other saying it was blocked. So you do have a point, Compustrike is just from one point of view, but so is Sookoojo's breakdown, as is yours and mine. Everyone is going to be biased depending on who they wanted to win the fight. CompuStrike is a third party, so it's the best we're going to get at an unbiased count, but like I said everyone is going to see strikes differently.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah the scoring system is f*cked for sure, if it wasn't a ten point must, I think this fight would have been a draw, just about every round could be scored 10-10. And the Karate Kid wouldn't do so well under Pride rules, he'd be yellow carded into poverty, then DQ'd. That backpedaling stuff wouldn't fly.


Again dont put words in my mouth I told you I was referring to the comment that he landed twice as many shots....regardless if that leads one to belive that should determine the winner....:thumbsup:


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> Again dont put words in my mouth I told you I was referring to the comment that he landed twice as many shots....regardless if that leads one to belive that should determine the winner....:thumbsup:


You did say you didn't count into the last two rounds, it may have been even until then. Which with Compustrike is shows it being pretty close until 4 and 5, so he could have landed twice as many strikes.

We really need to end this though, there is a rematch, so no point in debating the first fight. Just pray for a decisive ending, whether it's a one sided decision or a stoppage.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Life B Ez said:


> Yeah the scoring system is f*cked for sure, if it wasn't a ten point must, I think this fight would have been a draw, just about every round could be scored 10-10. *And the Karate Kid wouldn't do so well under Pride rules, he'd be yellow carded into poverty, then DQ'd. That backpedaling stuff wouldn't fly.*


Wow I am sorry Ez, I like you, but that is by far one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard on here. :thumbsdown:

You don't respect his art at all! Lyoto is probably the most intelligent MMA fighter on earth right now. 

He avoids getting hit like nobody else can even imagine. That is such a beautiful thing and unattainable for most Fighters. I thought people had that figured out until now..:confused05:

You are probably one of those guys who would vote for Garcia vs. Jung for Fight of the year! :thumbsdown:


----------



## Life B Ez

BobbyCooper said:


> Wow I am sorry Ez, I like you, but that is by far one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard on here. :thumbsdown:
> 
> You don't respect his art at all! Lyoto is probably the most intelligent MMA fighter on earth right now.
> 
> He avoids getting hit like nobody else can even imagine. That is such a beautiful thing and unattainable for most Fighters. I thought people had that figured out until now..:confused05:
> 
> You are probably one of those guys who would vote for Garcia vs. Jung for Fight of the year! :thumbsdown:


Are you kidding? I love it, he's insanely talented and he applies Karate like no one else. But in Pride they yellow carded people for sitting the guard for a couple seconds or not engaging pretty much constantly. I've never said I don't like Machida's style, but he would have been yellow carded and possibly DQ'd in Pride. 

Rampage was given a yellow in his second fight with Wand because he was GnPing from inside the guard, so if Lyoto backpedaled and didn't engage he would get a yellow.

I never said I didn't like it, I will admit it can get boring sometimes, but he is amazing. I was just saying he wouldn't do too well in Pride.

Frankly, I'm a little offended that you think I just want to see drag out brawls.....when you've seen me post about technique and skill over just pure aggression.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Please tell me from your sentence, how I should not have interpreted it the way it did??

And you truly believe, he would get yellow cards for his fighting style in PRIDE?? Again, thats probably one of the most ridiculous things I have read on here.

I recommend you to watch Lyoto's fights again in order to say something so foolish..


----------



## Life B Ez

BobbyCooper said:


> Please tell me from your sentence, how I should not have interpreted it the way it did??
> 
> And you truly believe, he would get yellow cards for his fighting style in PRIDE?? Again, thats probably one of the most ridiculous things I have read on here.
> 
> I recommend you to watch Lyoto's fights again in order to say something so foolish..


Watch Rashad v Machida round 1 and tell me he wouldn't have been yellow carded for all that circling........They both would have been given a yellow or possibly two. Please watch some Pride fights before you say Machida's style wouldn't get him a yellow in Pride. They wanted brawls and guys just swinging for the fences, not picking your shots and avoiding getting hit, that's why Wand was so popular in Japan.


----------



## M.C

Actually, in PRIDE, Lyoto might in fact get a yellow card. PRIDE rules were that fights need to have lots of action, high pacing. Lyoto often waits for a long time and uses his footwork to move out of the way without striking. Such things got yellow carded constantly in PRIDE. 

I'm a huge Machida fan and more than appreciate his style, but PRIDE rules were much different, and not engaging often normally resulted in a yellow card.

As for the fight itself, Machida will fix the hole he had with the leg kicks, and he's smart enough to not fall prey to focusing only on the kicks, so if Shogun changes his plan of attack to punches instead of kicks, Machida will still be prepared. 

Machida will win probably via decision, as I think it'll take a train to finish Shogun, that dude is tough as nails.


----------



## BobbyCooper

You probably forgot, that Lyoto already fought 7 times in Japan when he started his pro career, right?? He NEVER got a yellow card in any of his fights!

Pride rules back and forth.. even those fools would have recorginzed it sooner or later.


----------



## Life B Ez

Michael Carson said:


> Actually, in PRIDE, Lyoto might in fact get a yellow card. PRIDE rules were that fights need to have lots of action, high pacing. Lyoto often waits for a long time and uses his footwork to move out of the way without striking. Such things got yellow carded constantly in PRIDE.
> 
> I'm a huge Machida fan and more than appreciate his style, but PRIDE rules were much different, and not engaging often normally resulted in a yellow card.
> 
> As for the fight itself, Machida will fix the hole he had with the leg kicks, and he's smart enough to not fall prey to focusing only on the kicks, so if Shogun changes his plan of attack to punches instead of kicks, Machida will still be prepared.
> 
> Machida will win probably via decision, as I think it'll take a train to finish Shogun, that dude is tough as nails.


Thanks man. It's not a knock on Lyoto's style it's just Pride's rules.



BobbyCooper said:


> You probably forgot, that Lyoto already fought 7 times in Japan when he started his pro career, right?? He NEVER got a yellow card in any of his fights!
> 
> Pride rules back and forth.. even those fools would have recorginzed it sooner or later.


He was fighting in K1 though, not Pride.


----------



## M.C

I realize that, and you realize that NONE of those fights were in PRIDE, right? Seriously, at some point, your Machida love has to look outside of the box. In PRIDE, people were given yellow cards for controlling someone who was in their guard, and not trying to advance. Do you honestly think that if Machida stood there, wiating for his opponent to make a mistake, for 2 minutes, only avoiding and not being aggressive, he would not get a yellow card?

Machida would get yellow cards in PRIDE, he would. I've had nothing but support for Machida for years before you even came to this forum, I've been a fan for a LONG time, and even I can see he would get yellow cards in PRIDE.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Pride and K-1 did Co. Production as well! So of course the rules were a little different, but Japan remains Japan. Maybe Lyoto would have gotten yellow cards for his style like you guys are saying.. I doupt it would have happened, but if so, it would have shown how uneducated Pride in MMA togs really was. If Pride FC would still be around, even those guys would have recognised it until now, or don't you think so?!

MMA is a Sport wich evolved every day! We reached a good time for MMA and we could follow how this great sport evolved so quickly. Pride FC was one of the beginners who made tons of mistakes wich ended in a sale.


----------



## coldcall420

Life B Ez said:


> You did say you didn't count into the last two rounds, it may have been even until then. Which with Compustrike is shows it being pretty close until 4 and 5, so he could have landed twice as many strikes.
> 
> We really need to end this though, there is a rematch, so no point in debating the first fight. Just pray for a decisive ending, whether it's a one sided decision or a stoppage.


 
I'm not debating the first fight, I'm not sure why you say that. We were having a discussion on the merits of Fightmetric....well i was....:thumbsup: As far as the 1st ight.....as I have always said he won 1,2,3....PERIOD!!! On to the next which is basically a week or so away and I am def pumped I want to watch with the volume off then on this time....:thumb02:



Life B Ez said:


> Watch Rashad v Machida round 1 and tell me he wouldn't have been yellow carded for all that circling........They both would have been given a yellow or possibly two. Please watch some Pride fights before you say Machida's style wouldn't get him a yellow in Pride. They wanted brawls and guys just swinging for the fences, not picking your shots and avoiding getting hit, that's why Wand was so popular in Japan.


This part I agree with, if you are going to say that one was not engaging then the other would be just as suspect for a yellow reason being Lyoto counters when attacked and attacks right before being hit, so he is simply waiting for his opponent to engage him....his opponent would be just as suspect to the yellow therefore if he were waiting for Machida.



Michael Carson said:


> Actually, in PRIDE, Lyoto might in fact get a yellow card. PRIDE rules were that fights need to have lots of action, high pacing. Lyoto often waits for a long time and uses his footwork to move out of the way without striking. Such things got yellow carded constantly in PRIDE.
> 
> I'm a huge Machida fan and more than appreciate his style, but PRIDE rules were much different, and not engaging often normally resulted in a yellow card.
> 
> As for the fight itself, Machida will fix the hole he had with the leg kicks, and he's smart enough to not fall prey to focusing only on the kicks, so if Shogun changes his plan of attack to punches instead of kicks, Machida will still be prepared.
> 
> Machida will win probably via decision, as I think it'll take a train to finish Shogun, that dude is tough as nails.


 
I agree with the end part but I think you should consider the above statement and the possibility of him or his opponent getting the yellow. If were going to fight and you dont come to me and I dont come to you.....who gets the yellow??? 


As far as Bobby's post I believe there is merit there as well because of the reasons listed above, I understand people may say that his opponent is trying to attack and he is eluding but the fact is in the mentioned Rashad fight.....Rashad wanted no part of coming in on Lyoto...he eventually folded mentally and came forward, however till that point he did his shoulder thing and head fakes that weren't faking anyone out....


----------



## alizio

being half japanese im sure machida woulda gotten all kinds of favorable reffing and judging in PRIDE.

not the other way around.

in PRIDE it also depended on who you were, as much as what you did.

Machida would have gotten sweet GP draws and all the regular fixings.


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> I agree with the end part but I think you should consider the above statement and the possibility of him or his opponent getting the yellow. If were going to fight and you dont come to me and I dont come to you.....who gets the yellow???


They would both get a yellow in the Rashad Machida fight because neither was engaging. But say the end of the Silva Maia fight, Andeson would have been the only one to get a yellow because Maia was trying to attack.



> being half japanese im sure machida woulda gotten all kinds of favorable reffing and judging in PRIDE.
> 
> not the other way around.
> 
> in PRIDE it also depended on who you were, as much as what you did.
> 
> Machida would have gotten sweet GP draws and all the regular fixings


That's a whole different thread my friend.


----------



## M.C

coldcall420 said:


> I'm not debating the first fight, I'm not sure why you say that. We were having a discussion on the merits of Fightmetric....well i was....:thumbsup: As far as the 1st ight.....as I have always said he won 1,2,3....PERIOD!!! On to the next which is basically a week or so away and I am def pumped I want to watch with the volume off then on this time....:thumb02:
> 
> 
> 
> This part I agree with, if you are going to say that one was not engaging then the other would be just as suspect for a yellow reason being Lyoto counters when attacked and attacks right before being hit, so he is simply waiting for his opponent to engage him....his opponent would be just as suspect to the yellow therefore if he were waiting for Machida.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with the end part but I think you should consider the above statement and the possibility of him or his opponent getting the yellow. If were going to fight and you dont come to me and I dont come to you.....who gets the yellow???
> 
> 
> As far as Bobby's post I believe there is merit there as well because of the reasons listed above, I understand people may say that his opponent is trying to attack and he is eluding but the fact is in the mentioned Rashad fight.....Rashad wanted no part of coming in on Lyoto...he eventually folded mentally and came forward, however till that point he did his shoulder thing and head fakes that weren't faking anyone out....


If they both aren't coming at each other, then they both get a yellow. If neither person is engaging, they both get a yellow, and let's face it, the majority of the time the reason someone doesn't engage Machida is because of Machida's style. It's very difficult to find the range and you need to be 100% sure before moving in.

Machida's style and pacing is what would cause both men to get a yellow if both of them were to stall, however, if one was to attack Machida, and Machida would move away like he normally does, eventually he'd get a yellow and the other guy wouldn't. 

Waiting/being passive = yellow card in PRIDE, even if both fighters are waiting and being passive.


----------



## BobbyCooper

alizio said:


> being half japanese im sure machida woulda gotten all kinds of favorable reffing and judging in PRIDE.
> 
> not the other way around.
> 
> in PRIDE it also depended on who you were, as much as what you did.
> 
> Machida would have gotten sweet GP draws and all the regular fixings.


Damn Alizio that was a good one :thumbsup: next time it would be nice from you, to send me your thoughts via PM or something so that I can post it lol DEAL?? ;D


----------



## coldcall420

Michael Carson said:


> If they both aren't coming at each other, then they both get a yellow. If neither person is engaging, they both get a yellow, and let's face it, the majority of the time the reason someone doesn't engage Machida is because of Machida's style. It's very difficult to find the range and you need to be 100% sure before moving in.
> 
> *Machida's style and pacing is what would cause both men to get a yellow if both of them were to stall, however, if one was to attack Machida, and Machida would move away like he normally does, eventually he'd get a yellow and the other guy wouldn't. *
> 
> Waiting/being passive = yellow card in PRIDE, even if both fighters are waiting and being passive.


 
Your correct and I am familiar with the rules, I think you should consider Machida's inside movement, he is constantly leaping forward to attack prior to being attacked often leading to a simple feel out process but that certainly factors in to the idea that he is only retreating.....just saying this needs to be considered as well....



EDIT: question: how do you neutralize Shoguns leg kicks??? Answer: attack them...


----------



## dlxrevolution

I think Lyoto will fix his mistakes of those leg kicks and will beat shogun by 5UD. But I also think Shogun will come out much with much more confidence than before seeing that he did the most to Machida.

WAR MACHIDA
17-0


----------



## No_Mercy

Think the answer to Lyoto's strategy to the kicks was in the countdown. For every kick he'll probably land three-four combos to make em pay. Thing is Rua has such a high guard and is willing to exchange. That's what makes this fight super entertaining with total contrast of fighting styles. 

If Shogun wins man it's gonna shake up the division. 

Enter "The Spider"...


----------



## M.C

coldcall420 said:


> Your correct and I am familiar with the rules, I think you should consider Machida's inside movement, he is constantly leaping forward to attack prior to being attacked often leading to a simple feel out process but that certainly factors in to the idea that he is only retreating.....just saying this needs to be considered as well....
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: question: how do you neutralize Shoguns leg kicks??? Answer: attack them...


I'm not talking about the Shogun fight, I'm talking about Machida's style and the majority of his fights in general. A lot of the time he waits and waits, then attacks when the right opening comes up. People got yellow cards for less than what Machida does. He'd get yellow carded in PRIDE, it's not about a single fight or single moments. Machida of course attacks, look at Rashad vs. Machida, and the Shogun fight there was a lot of strikes, but generally speaking Machida fights in a wait and passive style, such styles got yellow carded all the time in PRIDE, and Machida would be no different.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Too Lyoto's win that given night..


That might be a little philosophical now.. (even though I am far away from being Religious in any kind of way).. but I am still a strong believer, that everything what you do in life comes back to you one day. 

like the sayings..

"What you do comes back to you"

or..

"What goes around, comes around"

and Lyoto in my mind, received a little bit from that that given night!

Good Karma


----------



## coldcall420

Michael Carson said:


> I'm not talking about the Shogun fight, I'm talking about Machida's style and the majority of his fights in general. A lot of the time he waits and waits, then attacks when the right opening comes up. People got yellow cards for less than what Machida does. He'd get yellow carded in PRIDE, it's not about a single fight or single moments. Machida of course attacks, look at Rashad vs. Machida, and the Shogun fight there was a lot of strikes, but generally speaking Machida fights in a wait and passive style, such styles got yellow carded all the time in PRIDE, and Machida would be no different.


 
I'm not talking about the Shogun fight either necessarily....Im talking in general in terms of Lyoto's attack....:thumbsup:


----------



## machidaisgod

Didn't Pride go out of business? Pride got the Red Card so who the hell cares what would have happened in Pride???


----------



## hatedcellphones

I can see why he won, but I can also see why people were pissed that he did. Rua landed many kicks, but Machida dodged a lot of them and threw counters on many of the ones that connected, but you wouldn't notice over the crowd and the commentators freaking out about the kicks. On a technical level, I'd give it to Machida, but I think Rua did more damage. He seemed to be moving more by the end. Hopefully this next fight is more decisive. I think Shogun can win. He just needs to seal the deal. 

I'll be pulling for Shogun this time around because I love to see the underdog win, but it's really a tossup. Hopefully both of these guys will be looking to finish. Shogun because he doesn't want it to go to the judges and Machida because he does't want to take another five rounds of hard leg kicks.


----------



## Machida Karate

I know i said this a Million times but ill say it again! I CANT WAIT TO SEE THE OLD MACHIDA STYLE SATURDAY!!!!

Idk Machida's Dad has been really pushing Machida to finish his fights, and to be more exciting, and watching the Shogun fight a million times as i have... I saw the few flaws Machida left that night

The main thing i see different in Machida was the distance he left between him and Shogun, and he wasn't his old Elusive self that i grown to love, he kept encountering Shogun, as if his best D was to attack before being attacked. Which Machida has been doing for some years, but he never left such short distant while leaping in....

But i see this fight being the old Elusive/Countering Machida that will put the pressure on Shogun to not leave it to the Judges and be bouncing in and out of Shoguns range, and i believe the mix of the pressure of losing round after round will get Shogun sloppy in the later rounds giving Machida the TKO i say by the 3rd/4th....

WAR MACHIDA!!!! OUR LHW CHAMPION FOR MANY YEARS TO COME!


----------



## Scorch

I don't even want to make a prediction. It's going to be crazy!


----------



## SigFig

Scorch said:


> I don't even want to make a prediction. It's going to be crazy!


This. I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy this one. It's a no-play for me gambling wise. Although based on the cross section sampled here and the nearly dead nuts 50-50 vote, one might think there is some value to be had in betting on Shogun at +160...


----------



## Squirrelfighter

God its so rediculously close! I really hope this one is convincing UD or TKO. I don't want to see another aftermath like last time!...Brrr, I shudder at the thought.


----------



## Ansem

I've never been so excited about a fight as I have been about this one, I hope it really lives up to the wait.


----------



## Nomale

Does anyone know if this is the most even poll yet?


----------



## Life B Ez

Nomale said:


> Does anyone know if this is the most even poll yet?


The "Who do you think won" poll for the Frank Edgar BJ Penn fight was really close too, think this is the closest a pre-fight poll has been though.


----------



## Nomale

Yeah I meant pre-fight poll.


----------



## Hawndo

Wow, its Machida 62, Shogun 65 just now, only last week I think Machida was in the lead?

Loving the build up to this, cannot wait!


----------



## swpthleg

Hawndo said:


> Wow, its Machida 62, Shogun 65 just now, only last week I think Machida was in the lead?
> 
> Loving the build up to this, cannot wait!


All I hope for is a decisive Machida win. Is that too much to ask?

(Don't answer. That was a rhetorical question.)


----------



## alizio

Cecil Peoples says leg kicks dont finish fights.

Urijah Faber disagrees.

who to believe??

isnt it weird that 2 out of 3 judges come from some karate background??

they shouldnt have judges that come from one particular school of fighting... so easy to lean towards a style of fighting you understand and practice yourself.

i really hope this doesnt go to a decision.


----------



## coldcall420

Its gonna be a great fight!!!!!!!!:thumb02: Lookin forward to cashing in my 11 Mill.....


----------



## Hawndo

swpthleg said:


> All I hope for is a decisive Machida win. Is that too much to ask?
> 
> (Don't answer. That was a rhetorical question.)


All I hope for is a decisive win, love Shogun and Machida but that last fight really left a sour taste in my mouth, still think Shogun won it but if either fighter can prove who the true champ is in this fight then it's all good. :thumbsup:


----------



## BobbyCooper

alizio said:


> Cecil Peoples says leg kicks dont finish fights.
> 
> Urijah Faber disagrees.
> 
> who to believe??
> 
> isnt it weird that 2 out of 3 judges come from some karate background??
> 
> they shouldnt have judges that come from one particular school of fighting... so easy to lean towards a style of fighting you understand and practice yourself.
> 
> i really hope this doesnt go to a decision.


You know alizio, someday there comes a day, where you get a little reward in life!



coldcall420 said:


> Its gonna be a great fight!!!!!!!!:thumb02: Lookin forward to cashing in my 11 Mill.....


Actually CC my friend, you can already ask for your payout ;D


----------



## flashbang

What a rematch!

I hope the match won't be as close as this vote-> Machida 2nd round TKO after a flurry.

I have a feeling Machida is not just looking to counter and waiting his legs and ribs to be kicked inside. He will take the attacking side this time around.


----------



## Ansem

flashbang said:


> What a rematch!
> 
> I hope the match won't be as close as this vote-> Machida 2nd round TKO after a flurry.
> 
> I have a feeling Machida is not just looking to counter and waiting his legs and ribs to be kicked inside. He will take the attacking side this time around.


Yeah, and it wud be the first time we can see a more aggressive Machida, after this fight I think there will be alot more Machida fans out there as well as a p4p jump for him.


----------



## Nomale

alizio said:


> Cecil Peoples says leg kicks dont finish fights.
> 
> Urijah Faber disagrees.
> 
> who to believe??
> 
> *isnt it weird that 2 out of 3 judges come from some karate background??*
> 
> they shouldnt have judges that come from one particular school of fighting... so easy to lean towards a style of fighting you understand and practice yourself.
> 
> i really hope this doesnt go to a decision.


Two?! If that's true it's completely bull! People get as emotional and defensive regarding the comparison of fighting styles as squabbling about what happens when you die for foecks sake. 

It's like a biased jury. Aren't there more judges than those three?


----------



## AceofSpades187

Wow its 66-66 damn such a close poll so excited for this fight on friday morning ill start my drive to mtl damn im excited


----------



## HitOrGetHit

AceofSpades187 said:


> Wow its 66-66 damn such a close poll so excited for this fight on friday morning ill start my drive to mtl damn im excited


The forum is very divided when it comes to these two for sure.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

Squirrelfighter said:


> God its so rediculously close! I really hope this one is convincing UD or TKO. I don't want to see another aftermath like last time!...Brrr, I shudder at the thought.



Really? What about this is worthy of a neg rep? Somebody's a wee bit too touchy if you ask me!


----------



## OwnOrBeOwned

My vote for Machida ties it up again, this really is such a close fight. I was sure Rua had taken it last time, but I think Machida will have figured out a way to win this fight.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

Haha. Saved this poll with prtscrn. Its beautiful, absolutely perfectly tied up. Love it!


----------



## xRoxaz

After watching the conference today, I can assure you theres definetley going to be a tko or ko, and most likely Shogun will be ktfo.


----------



## CornBall

sho fo tha winz!!!


----------



## Soojooko

I was writing a far more complex and informative ( boring ) post regards my further opinions on the fight.​ 
Then...​ 
I remembered the last fight. I remembered all the discussion before hand. The obvious Lyoto-love. The minority who constantly retorted with claims of Rua underestimation...​ 
I remembered how each and every one of us got it sooooo completely wrong. Both Rua and Lyoto leaches, for all their wild speculation, got nowhere near the truth with their predictions.

In keeping with tradititon...
Lyoto KO in first 30 seconds.​


----------



## Hammerlock2.0

Wow, the poll is exactly 50/50 as I'm writing this. I guess Shogung has shown everyone what he's capable of and has converted some non-believers. Last time I said that Shogun would win, but I wouldn't be mad if Lyoto did... man, I had no clue what was coming after the fight. But I'm gonna try again...

Shogun will take this via TKO, but I won't be too mad if Lyoto takes it because I'm a fan of both (Shogun more than Machida). Unless there's another bad decision, in which case I'll be very angry (again).


----------



## suffersystem

Although I do think Machida will take the victory, I will be pulling for Shogun in this one. Regardless, I hope that either way it is a decisive victory from the winner this time around. I don't think the forums could handle another judge controversy with these fighters, lol.


----------



## limba

Their first fight showed machida has some weaknesess. 
I said "has", not "had", because i don't think Machida will be able to stop Shogun's leg kicks like most of the people are talking about.
Machida definitely knows he has o be aware of Shogun's kicks, but that doesn't mean he will be 100% succesfull on doing that. He will have to find a way to close the distance and get underneath Shogun's guard, with quick-sharp punches, quick combinations. Plus he needs to be the agressor, he needs to be more convincing, than in his last fight. I think he realizes he has to do more than in the first fight, because if this turns out the same way, he won't get the decision this time. 
On the other hand, Shogun knows he has this advantage on his size: his kicks. He can let Machida guess on what his game plan will be or he can start the fight by continuing with his game plan from the first fight. 

Don't expect this to be a slug-fest...more a sequel of the first fight.
IMO, in the end all will come down to the tactics, the game plans. The one who will be able to implement his plan the best, will be the new UFC LHW champion.


----------



## Shevy19

I hope Shogun ko's machida so the retared judges don't get to decide it. I say shogun by ko in 4th round those kicks will slow down machida and this time shogun will go for the kill


----------



## The505Butcher

Soojooko said:


> I was writing a far more complex and informative ( boring ) post regards my further opinions on the fight.​
> Then...​
> I remembered the last fight. I remembered all the discussion before hand. The obvious Lyoto-love. The minority who constantly retorted with claims of Rua underestimation...​
> I remembered how each and every one of us got it sooooo completely wrong. Both Rua and Lyoto leaches, for all their wild speculation, got nowhere near the truth with their predictions.
> 
> In keeping with tradititon...
> Lyoto KO in first 30 seconds.​


I will laugh so hard if that happens. And I completely agree with you. So to keep it as well but add in something even more crazy...

Double KO round 5 4:55 seconds into the round. Machida with a left hook, Shogun with a left head kick! See what the UFC will do with that!


----------



## coldcall420

The505Butcher said:


> I will laugh so hard if that happens. And I completely agree with you. So to keep it as well but add in something even more crazy...
> 
> Double KO round 5 4:55 seconds into the round. Machida with a left hook, Shogun with a left head kick! See what the UFC will do with that!


 
I think the forum would crash!!!! LoL......:thumb02:


----------



## Syxx Paq

The505Butcher said:


> I will laugh so hard if that happens. And I completely agree with you. So to keep it as well but add in something even more crazy...
> 
> Double KO round 5 4:55 seconds into the round. Machida with a left hook, Shogun with a left head kick! See what the UFC will do with that!


In Sports news today, Dana White, president of the Ultimate Fighting Championship, has died today, at 2130 today of a heart attack. He was 40 years old.


----------



## coldcall420

What would happen if they both k/o'd each other like in this example, the belt would be vacant???:confused02:


----------



## Syxx Paq

coldcall420 said:


> What would happen if they both k/o'd each other like in this example, the belt would be vacant???:confused02:


If its a draw the champion retains the title right :?


----------



## edlavis88

Why are people booing Machida? Not his fault the judges ballsed up the first fight!!


----------



## coldcall420

Syxx Paq said:


> If its a draw the champion retains the title right :?


Think so, god what a mess that would be......:confused05:


----------



## CornBall

edlavis88 said:


> Why are people booing Machida? Not his fault the judges ballsed up the first fight!!




peepz pay tha boo boo cuz he lik won but not rly.... sho waz lik wha mo popin? n lotto waz lik but itz waz tha jugde falt... 

may 8 gonna be tigh tho..


----------



## godson

Machida looks extremely mad!


----------



## CornBall

godson said:


> Machida looks extremely mad!




tha man drik hiz own pee pee...i be mad too tho..


----------



## swpthleg

Sorry, I don't speak freaky deaky Dutch.


----------



## CornBall

swpthleg said:


> Sorry, I don't speak freaky deaky Dutch.







lol....sory dun don mean to be tha ratard..my opinon tho

u cool tho.... reps


----------



## swpthleg

You're entitled to your opinion. I just had a hard time figuring out what you were saying.

Also, white square.


----------



## M.C

CornBall said:


> lol....sory dun don mean to be tha ratard..my opinon tho
> 
> u cool tho.... reps


I fixed the video for you.

Also, I LOVE that movie.


----------



## CornBall

swpthleg said:


> You're entitled to your opinion. I just had a hard time figuring out what you were saying.
> 
> Also, white square.


kk...u still cool tho...

i waz tryin to post a vdieo of ausin poewers gold memmber when evil man waz lik i don speka freky dutch.. sumthin lik tha.. i post link...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exCYSfQod14

:thumb02:



Michael Carson said:


> I fixed the video for you.
> 
> Also, I LOVE that movie.




thx man!! 

word... i luv tha movie too... reps..


----------



## The Horticulturist

As big of a Shogun fan I am, I believe it is up to Lyoto whether he is going to win or lose. 

I am definitely going into this humbly hoping that Shogun will finish him early.


----------



## williamwilson

*Machida, Shogun and the rest....*

A couple of articles about ufc 113, this evening.

The first discusses the original bout bewteen Shogun and Machida and the prospects for the rematch:

http://martial-arts-instruction.suite101.com/article.cfm/ufc-113-return-of-the-dragon


The second gives a general preview of the main fight card:

http://martial-arts-instruction.suite101.com/article.cfm/ufc-113-main-card-preview


----------



## Terror Kovenant

I've decided, Shogun TKO round 3.


----------



## brucelee23

As the bookies odds have this at 33/1 for a draw, (its worth a small bet) and the fact that Anderson silva put on a disapointing display in abu dhadi, the UFC has not seen a draw for years. With the dodgy judging and the unpredictability of the way the judges score mma in general, i'm gonna say a draw.
Shock result of the year !!!


----------



## BobbyCooper

Good Luck Lyoto!


----------



## Thelegend

i hope the way this forum voted a razor thin margin to shogun isn't in some way the precursor to how the judges will score the fight...


----------



## swpthleg

Thelegend said:


> i hope the way this forum voted a razor thin margin to shogun isn't in some way the precursor to how the judges will score the fight...


I'm just going to cross my fingers that it doesn't go to the judges.


----------



## Life B Ez

swpthleg said:


> I'm just going to cross my fingers that it doesn't go to the judges.


I think everyone is, but I just think they are both way too good to get finished by the other guy. Both have good/great chins, both have great striking, both have sick ground games, both seem to have good cardio. I think I give Shogun the edge there and that's the only area I can give either guy a advantage. It's not by much though.


----------



## Hawndo

Anyone else just kinda watching the countdown timer on UFC.com now?

Can't wait, shitty last few weeks with exams at University made this all the more exiting!


----------



## joe davola

Terror Kovenant said:


> I've decided, Shogun TKO round 3.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Hawndo said:


> Anyone else just kinda watching the countdown timer on UFC.com now?
> 
> Can't wait, shitty last few weeks with exams at University made this all the more exiting!


Yeah I am very excited for this fight as well!


----------



## Life B Ez

joe davola said:


>


HAHAHA love it


----------



## Terror Kovenant

I'm pretty curious as to how the crowd is going to be for this fight. There were Machida chants at the start and then almost the whole crowd was behind Shogun at the end. Then of course the crowd erupted with boos after the decision. Anyone think Lyoto is going to get booed on his way out?


----------



## joe davola

HitOrGetHit said:


> Yeah I am very excited for this fight as well!













one hour to go


----------



## Rusko

Waaaaaarrrr Shooooooguun!!!!


----------



## Dakota?

Love the music Shogun lol


----------



## footodors

Shogun sure has floppy pecs. Has he ever done a bench-press in his life?


----------



## The Dude Abides

Haven't had this feeling before a fight in a long time. 

Come on Machida.


----------



## AmdM

GO LYOTO.

Let him have a taste of real talent and CHI power.


----------



## Walker

So juiced for this fight! :happy01:


----------



## HexRei

footodors said:


> Shogun sure has floppy pecs. Has he ever done a bench-press in his life?


he's always looked like that, i think he may have a slightly inverted sternum because the rest of him can look strong but his chest always looks concave.


----------



## FrodoFraggins

footodors said:


> Shogun sure has floppy pecs. Has he ever done a bench-press in his life?


Of course, he inclines 225 pound barrels of Machida Urine every day at lunchtime.


----------



## joe davola

shogun looks fat


already a great rd


----------



## Guymay

nice sumo


----------



## Guymay

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS :thumb02::thumb02::thumb02:


----------



## h2so4

Hell Yeah!!!!


----------



## Rusko

AAAAAAAAAAAAH SHOOOGUN SHOGUN YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH im gone crazy i knew it


pride of chute box


----------



## Toxic

Wow, That was freaking crazy.


----------



## sillywillybubba

that was F*ckin AWesome!


----------



## 420atalon

WOOT!!!

Very deserving win. But damn, this card was bad on my vbookie...


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Wow Holy ******* Shit!!!!!!


----------



## deanmzi

holy crap SHOGUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## AmdM

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


----------



## chosenFEW

Shogun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Whos The Champ Babyyy!!!!!


----------



## HexRei

wow! what a win. glad i didnt bet on this one, lol


----------



## FrodoFraggins

holy mother of god


----------



## godson

Good job Shogun :thumbsup:

edit: Anderson Silva vs. Shogun


----------



## ufc4life

wow ....just wowraise01:


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Machida is hurt bad. Bad.


Welcome to the Shogun era. This dude will not lose for a long long time


----------



## deanmzi

Machida should have stuck to just countering, dam that was brutal


----------



## The Horticulturist

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! I am so happy for Shogun. Finally the doubters can rest.

No shame in this for Machida. Shogun has been taking names for a long time.


----------



## Walker

YESSSSSS!!!!!!



Shogun is the champ!


----------



## TraMaI

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaamn!


----------



## Dakota?

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaoooooooooooooooooooooooowawwwowowowowowowwwwwooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwww


----------



## SerJ

YES!!!!!!!!!! Go shogun. Well deserved! Poor Machida. He'll be back. So happy for Shogun!


----------



## Lloyd

HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumb02:


----------



## BWoods

The WRONG has been made RIGHT


----------



## Gyser

OMG SO HAPPY, take that you god damn nuthuggers, man that was EPIC.


----------



## footodors

steamrolled!!


----------



## vilify

yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Drogo

Ok, I officially love Shogun, even though I thought Machida would win, because of what he did at the end. Everyone see that? He stopped before the ref even stepped in because he could see Machida was out. Douchebags everywhere take note. None of this adrenalin you have to fight til the ref stops it blah blah blah crap.


----------



## Iuanes

Well done Shogun. Wow. Well deserving champion.


----------



## MikeHawk

Holy shit, I actually won on v-bookie tonight? WOOO


----------



## Toxic

Look at that ****ing eye. that is brutal


----------



## Mauricio Rua

The Rua era begins!!!


----------



## sillywillybubba

did u see his eye? dang,i never would have predicted the fight to go down like that


----------



## Redrum

WOWOW! I am shocked. That was really definitive! Congrats to Shogun!


----------



## Gyser

how classy too, didnt need to be shoved off him, saw he was out, got off him, the peoples champion has his belt.


----------



## Blitzz

The round robin continues at LHW. Wonder who is going to beat Shogun now.


----------



## Guymay

I'VE never been so ******* pumped at 7 am !!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## deanmzi

wow that is one black eye, god dam


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Wow Lyoto's eye is destroyed. Shogun is incredible!


----------



## Rusko

this is my fav fight ever  atleast the meaning of the fight for mma


----------



## FrodoFraggins

I think they should cancel the Silva-Sonnen fight and set up Shogun-Silva ASAP. It's not like shogun got hurt or tired


----------



## robnet77

last time broken hand? bah, but shogun did it, yeaaaaaaah!


----------



## Hawndo

**** yeah! WAR SHOGUN! true champ has the belt!


----------



## edlavis88

wow eye= destoryed!!!!


----------



## Walker

All the people who think the Pride champions suck and can't hang in the UFC can just suck it. Shogun is back and is the true champion. I love Machida but Shogun deserves this after the first fight.


WAR SHOGUN!!!!!!!!!


----------



## TLC

I've Waited So Long For That Moment!! Hallelujiah! Machida Is Exposed! Daddy's Back! Welcome To The Shogun Era Motherfucker! Wooooooooooo!


----------



## Toxic

I forgot to look was Dana in the cage at the end or was he in the back dealing with Daley?


----------



## Spec0688

He gave shogun the belt, why would he be with a loser like Daley isntead of handing the belt?


I also have new respect added to a lot of it already for shogun. He could have hit Machida with another 2-4 hits before the ref stepped in there but he stopped it early.


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Toxic said:


> I forgot to look was Dana in the cage at the end or was he in the back dealing with Daley?


In the cage, had a huge smile on his face.


----------



## attention

TLC said:


> I've Waited So Long For That Moment!! Hallelujiah! Machida Is Exposed! Daddy's Back! Welcome To The Shogun Era Motherfucker! Wooooooooooo!


LOL! Machida's first and only loss... ya, sure dude... exposed 

Amazing counter by Shogun!


----------



## HexRei

Toxic said:


> I forgot to look was Dana in the cage at the end or was he in the back dealing with Daley?


ya dana was inside, he shook shogun's hand and congratulated him, said something else i couldnt understand.


----------



## Dakota?

Dana was in there


----------



## Redrum

sillywillybubba said:


> did u see his eye? dang,i never would have predicted the fight to go down like that


Dang it I missed his eye. I just saw him walking out with ice on it.


----------



## Jmac91

Well this leaves Rampage out as a viable contender. Even PPV is not aloud to broadcast **** live. LOL Go Shogun.


----------



## MagiK11

I'm really happy for Shogun with how the first fight went down. That was just sick and brutal!

Hope Machida takes this loss well and comes back stronger.


----------



## M.C

Damn that was crazy.

I'm a huge Machida fan, but Jesus, there's no getting around that Shogun wrecked his shit tonight.

Machida will be back for sure, he's till one of the top guys at LHW.


----------



## Rusko

Walker said:


> All the people who think the Pride champions suck and can't hang in the UFC can just suck it. Shogun is back and is the true champion. I love Machida but Shogun deserves this after the first fight.
> 
> 
> WAR SHOGUN!!!!!!!!!


man 10 + reps


----------



## Terror Kovenant

I'm calling it now, Shogun will end Anderson Silva's streak.


----------



## BWoods

Don't trash on Lyoto guys. He wasn't exposed at all, Shogun just caught him flat out. Lyoto had a good gameplan and was winning the round up till that point. Shogun's is an amazing finisher.


----------



## 420atalon

attention said:


> LOL! Machida's first and only loss... ya, sure dude... exposed
> 
> Amazing counter by Shogun!


2nd loss...

Shogun exposed him in the first fight and tonight proved that the hole still exists.


----------



## deanmzi

Blitzz said:


> The round robin continues at LHW. Wonder who is going to beat Shogun now.


Well if Rampage beats Evans then we will see Rampage v Shogun - after that maybe Jon Jones gets a chance, and then Bader maybe able to wrestle it from him. I think though, Machida will get another crack by early 2011 imo.


----------



## palmerboy

Ive had a really bad week and staying up to 6 am was a real struggle but now its all ok


----------



## TLC

Terror Kovenant said:


> I'm calling it now, Shogun will end Anderson Silva's streak.


I think so too...too young, too quick. Anderson may have beaten him earlier, but he's getting too old at this point.


----------



## Jmac91

deanmzi said:


> Well if Rampage beats Evans then we will see Rampage v Shogun - after that maybe Jon Jones gets a chance, and then Bader maybe able to wrestle it from him. I think though, Machida will get another crack by early 2011 imo.


I don't think Rampage wants to fight Shogun EVER again!


----------



## deanmzi

BWoods said:


> Don't trash on Lyoto guys. He wasn't exposed at all, Shogun just caught him flat out. Lyoto had a good gameplan and was winning the round up till that point. Shogun's is an amazing finisher.


I agree that Lyoto just got caught, and is still #2 LHW in the world, but I can't say 100% he was winning the round, he got two takedowns, but didn't do much of anything, and Shogun was being the aggressor.


----------



## attention

420atalon said:


> 2nd loss...
> 
> Shogun exposed him in the first fight and tonight proved that the hole still exists.


HA! I agree with you ...I thought Shogun won that bout... but that doesnt count


----------



## UrbanBounca

God, I had a terrible vBookie night.


----------



## Crester

So much for the Machida Era! LOL


----------



## footodors

Rua said he worked on his hands more than his legs and it showed


----------



## BWoods

deanmzi said:


> I agree that Lyoto just got caught, and is still #2 LHW in the world, but I can't say 100% he was winning the round, he got two takedowns, but didn't do much of anything, and Shogun was being the aggressor.


With the way the rules are those two take downs win the round. He was landing some good strikes and checked most of Shoguns kicks save one. I'd say it was really close but he was winning till Shogun went beast mode.


----------



## The Dude Abides

420atalon said:


> 2nd loss...
> 
> Shogun exposed him in the first fight and tonight proved that the hole still exists.



What hole? pra4123 y tell. He got caught be a glancing hook to the temple that he didn't get caught with in the first fight. It happens.


----------



## TLC

attention said:


> LOL! Machida's first and only loss... ya, sure dude... exposed
> 
> Amazing counter by Shogun!


He was knocked the **** out...in 1. Seriously.


----------



## Spec0688

BWoods said:


> Don't trash on Lyoto guys. He wasn't exposed at all, Shogun just caught him flat out. Lyoto had a good gameplan and was winning the round up till that point. Shogun's is an amazing finisher.


Shogun used the same strategy as last fight, only difference is that he was more aggressive and pushed it more instead of standing outside and landing kicks. Machida will probably never be able to beat Shogun ever again, he is the kryptonite.


----------



## chosenFEW

MagiK11 said:


> I'm really happy for Shogun with how the first fight went down. That was just sick and brutal!
> 
> Hope Machida takes this loss well and comes back stronger.




Yeah, even though i was pulling for rua, I still like lyoto. Hope he comes back mentally healthy after this though.


----------



## Rusko

Michael Carson said:


> Machida will be back for sure, he's till one of the top guys at LHW.


ofcourse he is 2nd best atm, no one should dare to take away machidas credit because of this fight. Shogun is just better he proved it two times now.

Congrats shogun.



Any of Shoguns fans who felt really bad about Machida's face in the end? I hope Machida willbe ok


----------



## TLC

Where is coldcall by the way?


----------



## SerJ

I think that was the first time after a fight where I was very happy for the winning fighter. So well deserved. The true champ has the belt. No disrespect for Machida since he is and was a great champ, but I'm so pumped for Shogun. Rua just looked so damn happy, it was just awesome. Classy classy fighter too. Didn't need the ref to get in the middle to stop the punishment. Rua era FTW! 
Rua vs. Jackson/Silva please!!!

Hopefully Machida comes back stronger. The man looked heart broken and I felt for him, but someone had to lose. Much respect and I hope we get a rubber match down the road.


----------



## DragonStriker

That was an awesome fight looked like Machida wanted to keep taking him down but Shogun got him awesome stuff.


----------



## arkanoydz

had Shogun winning the first match (though upon re-watch I could see why Lyoto was given the W), and was rooting for Rua tonight as well... when all's said and done though, I do kinda feel bad for Lyoto... Hope to see him come back stronger - never stopped respecting the guy and still think he's one of the best.

Shogun on the other hand, wow. Really wanted to see him to repeat what he did (twice) to Overeem, and this was even better as he got the fight to the ground with a strike as opposed to a TD.


----------



## Life B Ez

Hey Bobby, hey ColdCall :thumb02:

Welcome to the end of the Machida era.


----------



## Dtwizzy2k5

To all the people saying Machida just "got caught" and was winning the round before the finish, i COMPLETELY DISAGREE. Go back and watch the round again; just because Machida scored two takedowns doesnt mean he automatically won the round since this isnt a wrestling match after all. Shogun was landing significantly more and harder strikes than Machida was. The first time Machida took down Shogun, he just laid there for 10 seconds until Shogun got right back up. The second time, he didnt do any damage and Shogun got up fairly quickly again. 
If Shogun hadnt finished Machida, i still would have said he won that round.


----------



## godson

Wow.. I'm so upset Machida lost though.. I feel like I'm going to cry or something


----------



## deanmzi

arkanoydz said:


> had Shogun winning the first match (though upon re-watch I could see why Lyoto was given the W), and was rooting for Rua tonight as well... when all's said and done though, I do kinda feel bad for Lyoto... Hope to see him come back stronger - never stopped respecting the guy and still think he's one of the best.
> 
> Shogun on the other hand, wow. Really wanted to see him to repeat what he did (twice) to Overeem, and this was even better as he got the fight to the ground with a strike as opposed to a TD.


I wouldn't mind seeing Shogun v Machida fight 5 more times


----------



## michelangelo

Exactly.

Shogun!!!!! :thumb02: :thumb02: :thumb02: :thumb02: :thumb02: :thumb02: :thumb02: :thumb02: :thumb02: :thumb02: :thumb02:



TLC said:


> Where is coldcall by the way?


----------



## Freiermuth

Both guys are complete packages, I'm glad Shogun won because I've been a fan of his longer but honestly I could watch these guys fight eachother back-to-back-to-back.


----------



## Joabbuac

Shogun needs to rematch Griffin soon, If he beats little nog...just get that evened out.


----------



## footodors

Shogun wasn't worried about Machida at all. He just walked right through him.


----------



## Sousa

And now we will see a third fight after Machida wins 2 fights and Shogun wins 2. Count it


----------



## 420atalon

The Dude Abides said:


> What hole? pra4123 y tell. He got caught be a glancing hook to the temple that he didn't get caught with in the first fight. It happens.


Low kicks and an aggressive/quick striking fighter. Machida does fine against the guys that stalk him slowly and box rather then use Muay Thai. Shogun keeps Machida off balance using his leg kicks when at a distance and then rushes him with flurries of punches and gets inside where Machida has trouble countering. 

Machida didn't just get caught either. Shogun was winning the round and had landed some good strikes that visibly hurt Machida. Machida did have his two takedowns but did nothing with them.


----------



## +Shogun+

War Shogun!


----------



## arkanoydz

deanmzi said:


> I wouldn't mind seeing Shogun v Machida fight 5 more times


damn right!


----------



## tosgator

Mucho respect to Shogun for stopping pounding Lyoto before the ref pulled him off.

Shogun is a bad dude.


----------



## evilstevie

Joabbuac said:


> Shogun needs to rematch Griffin soon, If he beats little nog...just get that evened out.


Good God I hope thad never happens. Griffin is horrbile. Re-watch him vs. A Silva and you'll agree. He doesn't deserve Shogun.


----------



## jcal

Well that puts all the controvery to a rest. Shogun KOd him fairly easy. Machida will be back dont worry bout that! But I dont think he will ever be able to beat Shogun. Man Machida has some really insane takedowns. Its too bad Shogun is so good at getting back up without even using the fence. Gawd Damn Im happy.


----------



## 420atalon

I like Shogun and do thing he is a good fighter but I also think he was the perfect match up to beat Machida. I actually think some other fighters like Rashad would be a tougher match for Shogun then Machida was.


----------



## TLC

Anderson is next! Shogun is a prodigy!


----------



## jcal

evilstevie said:


> Good God I hope thad never happens. Griffin is horrbile. Re-watch him vs. A Silva and you'll agree. He doesn't deserve Shogun.


I dont think Griffin can get by lil nog anyway.


----------



## rabakill

deanmzi said:


> I agree that Lyoto just got caught, and is still #2 LHW in the world, but I can't say 100% he was winning the round, he got two takedowns, but didn't do much of anything, and Shogun was being the aggressor.


What fight were you watching? Machida was taking it to the ground because he knew Shogun was going to KO him. Watch it again, Shogun was winning the fight from the second the bell rang. I was as big a Machida fan as anybody, but let's face reality here, that wasn't a lucky punch, Shogun walked straight through everything Machida had and completely dominated him standing and got out of two takedowns very easily. To say Lyoto just got caught is completely delusional, you can try and defend it but really it's nonsense, he didn't stand a chance. This isn't like Arlovski vs. Fedor where people still talk about what if Arlovski hadn't thrown that stupid flying knee, it was a complete demolition of a very good fighter. I guarantee you this will not be talked about in the future as a what if fight.


----------



## Spec0688

jcal said:


> I dont think Griffin can get by lil nog anyway.


Griffen is out of that fight because of a shoulder injury anyway so...

anyways, Rampage will KTFO Rashad and will get a immediate title shot.


----------



## BWoods

jcal said:


> I dont think Griffin can get by lil nog anyway.


Especially when he pulled out of the fight.


----------



## 420atalon

jcal said:


> I dont think Griffin can get by lil nog anyway.


Nobody here follows MMA anymore? :wink01:

Griffin had to pull out of his fight with Lil Nog. Jason Brilz is taking his spot.


----------



## TLC

Shogun vs Rampage will be sweet.


----------



## footodors

Shogun will dislocate Rampage's knee in the first round.


----------



## WOGSY

I hope Machida's eye is ok with no serious/long term damage done as that looked very nasty at the end.
You could visibly see it expanding. It must have swelled 50 times its original size from the point of the knockout till the point he left the arena area

Lets just hope it needs a good draining and he's back training in a few weeks:thumb02:

Anyways, good job Shogun. Now that is how you win belts:thumb01:


----------



## robnet77

deanmzi said:


> I wouldn't mind seeing Shogun v Machida fight 5 more times


machida is no cat, he ain't got nine lives


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Shogun caught him in a sweet shot. Lyoto made a mistake and Shogun capitalized. I thought Machida was going to win but Shogun came in and did what he needed to do. I do think some of it had to do with Machida's left hand being untested but Shogun came in looking great.


----------



## Rolla_33

I dont think ive ever been so excited before seeing a match and i went crazy when i seen the KO. Mainly because shogun deserved the win and secondly because i never thought i'd see machida get KO'd in such a way.


----------



## Mckeever

What is this Machida got caught nonsense? No, Machida got dominated and exposed for the over rated fighter he is. Rua learned his mistske from the first fight of paying way too much respect for Machidas striking, came out and completely destroyed him. Rua vs Rampage 2 please.


----------



## limba

I picked Shogun to win...but i didn't anticipate this.
That punch was HUGE!
I am happy for Shogun.
Too many people picked on him after he lost to Griffin and the Coleman fight. Hater haters...
Not sure if this will be the "Shogun-era" but i give it a lot more chances than the "Machida-era".


----------



## usernamewoman

well first off if machida was overrated then why did he go five rounds with shogun before, the difference was that tonight shogun went in there with nothing to lose realizing that judges suck. Machida also tried to finish, and be more aggressive than usual, this cost him the fight. Machida i believe can beat the majority of the lhw division, and look forward to his next fight as he climbs back up to a title shot. why is it when a great fighter loses everyone is so quick to bring him down, i shudder to think what will be said of silva if he loses


----------



## vilify

back to karate!


----------



## 6toes

I was honestly hoping for a long hard-fought battle but now I doubt that would have been nearly as satisfying as how the fight actually ended up turning out. 

Huge props to Shogun. I feel kinda bad for Machida but I think he needed this loss and will be a better fighter for it.

Just wow, awesome end to a fairly mediocre card.


----------



## Notoriousxpinoy

Shogun.. I love you.. nuff said.

I've never been so happy to be wrong.


----------



## Woodenhead

Wow. Loving it. The previous wrong has been corrected.

I respect Lyoto, but damn I never like dhis back-up style - I just don't like counterpunchers.

Great stuff, Shogun!

- an old fan


----------



## truthBtold

this is what happens when you finally meet an elite striker with better footwork. That erect karate stance has been exposed by Shogun. Those that dont realize it, are in denial. Shogun will have Machidas number for along time to come. He realized he can pretty much walk thru his punches.


----------



## Mckeever

usernamewoman said:


> well first off if machida was overrated then why did he go five rounds with shogun before, the difference was that tonight shogun went in there with nothing to lose realizing that judges suck. Machida also tried to finish, and be more aggressive than usual, this cost him the fight. Machida i believe can beat the majority of the lhw division, and look forward to his next fight as he climbs back up to a title shot. why is it when a great fighter loses everyone is so quick to bring him down, i shudder to think what will be said of silva if he loses


When i say over rated i mean over rated in terms of how the fans thought he was unbeatable and untouchable even after their first clash. Machida is still a great fighter, but hes not the chuck norriss his fans make him out to be.

Chuck Norris can delete the recycle bin, can Machida?


----------



## footodors

Chuck Norris in the UFC? 
Good God Man; have you an ounce of compassion for the mere mortals there right now?


----------



## truthBtold

Machida gets way too much credit for a couple medicore wins.
T. Silva was a very lucky KO cuz of the head boucning. But T. Silva isnt the best in the world. Beating him doesnt make you untoucheable.

Neither does beating Rashad. It sucks to be a delusional fanboy and think in a division that the belt changes hands quicker then Jenna Jamieson transitions to mount, to think cuz he beat 2 decent guys he is unbeatable.Now ppl will say Shogun is unbeatable, til he loses one of his 1st 3 defenses like every other LHW does. They are just recycling til Jon Jones takes it anyways, and he could beat Machida right now.


----------



## Hawndo

Anyone heard from BobbyCooper? I'm starting to get worried


----------



## footodors

Unusual to see Lyoto trading with Rua like that. Wonder if his critics got to him a little.


----------



## TLC

footodors said:


> Unusual to see Lyoto trading with Rua like that. Wonder if his critics got to him a little.


Machida didn't trade shit. He got timed and even saying that is a stretch, the punch knocked him down because he was off-balance, but the follow up punches destroyed him.


----------



## No_Mercy

Enter "the Spider"...


----------



## steveo412

WHOOOOOOO!!!! SHOGUN!!!!!

Awesome so pumped about that fight. Shogun is the man and finally gets his gold. Machida is still #2 though and will be back strong put him against Page after he fights Rashad. I think the only guy who could beat Shogun his Bones Jones. Not saying he will but I think he has the best chance. Awesome night though PD and Kos showed true douchebaggery while Shogun showed pure class. Later PD hope you like bagging groceries.


----------



## Life B Ez

So was that decisive enough for you guys?

Shogun v Silva has to happen.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Life B Ez said:


> So was that decisive enough for you guys?
> 
> Shogun v Silva has to happen.


This is the third thread I have said this in tonight, but I think that if Silva wins the belt, it does more harm then good since him and Machida won't fight.


----------



## evilappendix

That was awesome. I really expected this fight to be a long battle. I won ten bucks on this fight too, so that made it all the more sweet to see Shogun get the KO.


----------



## Life B Ez

HitOrGetHit said:


> This is the third thread I have said this in tonight, but I think that if Silva wins the belt, it does more harm then good since him and Machida won't fight.


I don't think Machida is going to be much a threat anymore, he doesn't appear to have a chin, something I questioned because he never got hit and the top guys at 205 are fast and powerful. He'll beat guys like Rashad, Forrest and Thiago. But guys like Anderson, Shogun, Lil Nog guys that are fast with power will drop him. 

After seeing Shogun tonight I don't know if Anderson could beat him.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Life B Ez said:


> I don't think Machida is going to be much a threat anymore, he doesn't appear to have a chin, something I questioned because he never got hit and the top guys at 205 are fast and powerful. He'll beat guys like Rashad, Forrest and Thiago. But guys like Anderson, Shogun, Lil Nog guys that are fast with power will drop him.
> 
> After seeing Shogun tonight I don't know if Anderson could beat him.


He can beat most top contenders. He will never fight Nog or Silva. Even if he does go around beating people like Rashad, he is still just picking off top contenders with no intentions of fighting Silva for the belt. It just messes up the rankings.


----------



## Life B Ez

HitOrGetHit said:


> He can beat most top contenders. He will never fight Nog or Silva. Even if he does go around beating people like Rashad, he is still just picking off top contenders with no intentions of fighting Silva for the belt. It just messes up the rankings.


Silva still has to beat Shogun. I still maintain that if Machida and Silva were the same division that "we're friends we won't fight" bullshit would go right out the window.


----------



## Danm2501

Mauricio Shogun Rua, what a fighter. He was far more aggressive in this fight, landed some heavy shots and eventually dropped Machida and finished him on the ground. Machida looked fairly outclassed on the feet, only really landing the knee to the body just before getting dropped. Machida was relying on the takedown and out-working Lyoto on the ground, but Rua was too good for him. Perfect way to end the controversy. Move Shogun into the Top 5 P4P right now. <3


----------



## osmium

Life B Ez said:


> After seeing Shogun tonight I don't know if Anderson could beat him.


What about Shogun tonight would make you think Andy couldn't beat him? Because really nothing has changed with Shogun he has just gotten his gas tank back from all those knee surgeries. When I break down how both of them fight I don't see any big advantages for Shogun. The way he throws hand combinations would be a huge weakness if they fought and Machida was better than him in the clinch so Andy would have a huge advantage there too.

Andy would beat the **** out of Shogun but the fight isn't happening unless he loses the belt.


----------



## Leed

Wow.. just wow.. I'm speechless.
Still can't believe Machida lost..


----------



## jcal

Spec0688 said:


> *Griffen is out of that fight because of a shoulder injury anyway so...*
> anyways, Rampage will KTFO Rashad and will get a immediate title shot.


Didnt hear that but I agree that Rampage will beat rashad, after Rashad stops running


----------



## K R Y

Absolutely AMAZING. God that was insane. I love both guys but wanted Machida to win, but god DAMN!!!

Shogun made me love him even more, when he stopped the fight himself after seeing Machida was done. And how fricken happy he was, he was like a fat kid being given a burger.

Incredible moment in MMA. Machida will be back! I just think Shogun is a terrible match up for him, and that really showed tonight.


----------



## Life B Ez

osmium said:


> What about Shogun tonight would make you think Andy couldn't beat him? Because really nothing has changed with Shogun he has just gotten his gas tank back from all those knee surgeries. When I break down how both of them fight I don't see any big advantages for Shogun. The way he throws hand combinations would be a huge weakness if they fought and Machida was better than him in the clinch so Andy would have a huge advantage there too.
> 
> Andy would beat the **** out of Shogun but the fight isn't happening unless he loses the belt.


And Frankie Edgar didn't have a chance against BJ and Machida was going to outpoint Shogun again......How exactly was Machida better in the clinch than Shogun, he landed some knees in the first fight but got punished against the cage.....not to mention a flying knee is what got Lyoto KTFO, he went to throw one and Shogun timed him.

Anderson doesn't fight and hasn't fought strikers and Shogun just beat one of the best strikers in the world.....

Not to mention there are some questions about Anderson's gas tank now, Silva has never been in a war. Same as Machida hadn't been either. It is no where near as cut and dry as you make it seem.


----------



## osmium

Life B Ez said:


> And Frankie Edgar didn't have a chance against BJ and Machida was going to outpoint Shogun again......How exactly was Machida better in the clinch than Shogun, he landed some knees in the first fight but got punished against the cage.....not to mention a flying knee is what got Lyoto KTFO, he went to throw one and Shogun timed him.
> 
> Anderson doesn't fight and hasn't fought strikers and Shogun just beat one of the best strikers in the world.....
> 
> Not to mention there are some questions about Anderson's gas tank now, Silva has never been in a war. Same as Machida hadn't been either. It is no where near as cut and dry as you make it seem.


I called Frankie having a decent chance to outpoint BJ with his kickboxing months before the fight was even announced and said a 100% shogun beats machida before both fights so you are really just validating how I see this fight. I'd give Shogun maybe a 20-30 percent chance of beating Andy which is higher than most guys. 7 to 8 times out of ten though Andy beats his ass and finishes him. 

Who both of them beat doesn't mean anything really I am talking about how their techniques and physical attributes match up. Shogun isn't dominating the clinch against Andy, he probably isn't winning a leg kicking war, and the way he throws his hands will get him tagged over and over again. Hoping that someone as dangerous as Andy gases isn't really a winning strategy Shogun would have to press the action for that to happen and I see him getting KOed doing that.


----------



## Life B Ez

osmium said:


> I called Frankie having a decent chance to outpoint BJ with his kickboxing months before the fight was even announced and said a 100% shogun beats machida before both fights so you are really just validating how I see this fight. I'd give Shogun maybe a 20-30 percent chance of beating Andy which is higher than most guys. 7 to 8 times out of ten though Andy beats his ass and finishes him.
> 
> Who both of them beat doesn't mean anything really I am talking about how their techniques and physical attributes match up. Shogun isn't dominating the clinch against Andy, he probably isn't winning a leg kicking war, and the way he throws his hands will get him tagged over and over again. Hoping that someone as dangerous as Andy gases isn't really a winning strategy Shogun would have to press the action for that to happen and I see him getting KOed doing that.


I wasn't saying you said any of those things, I just meant that it was the popular opinion and it can be wrong.

You had some decent points until Andy KOing Shogun....that would not happen. Shogun has a chin like Dan Henderson, it would take a train to KO him.

You're painting Shogun to be kind of slow, but he just showed he's as fast, if not possibly faster than the quickest guy at 205. 

Also, Anderson has NEVER, as in NEVER fought a serious striker, so we really have no idea what this fight would look like because we have no Silva fights to kind of compare, or see how he reacts to strikers. It's easy to bob and weave around Forrest Griffin and Chris Leben and hell even Rich Franklin, none of those guys are anything like Shogun.


----------



## rabakill

Life B Ez said:


> I wasn't saying you said any of those things, I just meant that it was the popular opinion and it can be wrong.
> 
> You had some decent points until Andy KOing Shogun....that would not happen. Shogun has a chin like Dan Henderson, it would take a train to KO him.
> 
> You're painting Shogun to be kind of slow, but he just showed he's as fast, if not possibly faster than the quickest guy at 205.
> 
> Also, Anderson has NEVER, as in NEVER fought a serious striker, so we really have no idea what this fight would look like because we have no Silva fights to kind of compare, or see how he reacts to strikers. It's easy to bob and weave around Forrest Griffin and Chris Leben and hell even Rich Franklin, none of those guys are anything like Shogun.


High five mate, I like your thinking. I would love to see Shogun clinch Silva and mess him up a little.


----------



## Nomale

YES!!! What a finish!!! Awesome night to be a Shogun Rua supporter!!!


----------



## Thelegend

awesome win by shogun, nobody would have expected machida to get taken out by shogun like that. shogun probably tested his chin for the first time and was really aggresive-he obviously was no longer afraid of getting caught by machida. again great win for him.


----------



## Danm2501

Danm2501 said:


> I had Shogun winning their first encounter; and I see him taking the 2nd one too. 3rd round TKO, finishing Machida off with Ground and Pound after rocking him with a vicious clinch knee.


Was right about Shogun finishing Machida on the ground after rocking him, but got the round, and the strike that rocked Machida wrong. Even so, I'm delighted. <3 Shogun.


----------



## Hammerlock2.0

Allow me to say this...



WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SHOGUN!!! What a finish. One punch and he jumps right into mount, INCREDIBLE! I'm already excited to see some new matchups. Man, I just feel great right now...


----------



## Thelegend

Was right about Shogun finishing Machida on the ground after rocking him, but got the round, and the strike that rocked Machida wrong. Even so, I'm delighted. <3 Shogun


^nice way to pat yourself on the back but really....is it necessary to make machida fans any more angry than they already are?


----------



## luckbox

Just watched the fight, sooooo happy that Shogun got this. He deserved it. Came out from the gate ready to bang like a real fighter. The fight was very different from the first, but it felt like Shogun was in control the whole bout, even when Machida took him down.

Super stoked for Shogun, he should be in the p4p talk right now, no question. LET THE SHOGUN ERA BEGIN!


----------



## Hammerlock2.0

Thelegend said:


> ^nice way to pat yourself on the back but really....is it necessary to make machida fans any more angry than they already are?


What exactly did I say that would anger Machida fans? :confused02:

Edit: I just realized you weren't talking to me. :thumbsup:


----------



## usernamewoman

pfftt


----------



## usernamewoman

Life B Ez said:


> I don't think Machida is going to be much a threat anymore, he doesn't appear to have a chin, something I questioned because he never got hit and the top guys at 205 are fast and powerful. He'll beat guys like Rashad, Forrest and Thiago. But guys like Anderson, Shogun, Lil Nog guys that are fast with power will drop him.
> 
> After seeing Shogun tonight I don't know if Anderson could beat him.


So because a fighter gets put away by one of the most best strikers in the world all of sudden he has no chin?


----------



## Spec0688

usernamewoman said:


> So because a fighter gets put away by one of the most best strikers in the world all of sudden he has no chin?


I believe the same thing was said about Rashad after he was KO'ed. No need to take it personally when people say this. Problem is that Machida hardly ever got hit in previous fights but Shogun was able to have a good gameplan and get in there and touch him.

So who can say if Machida actually has a 'weak chin' or not, If Shogun was able to do that, I dont see why Rampage cant either. =D


----------



## coldcall420

*Hello all from a Devestated Coldcall*

My colors dont run unlike some on this forum.......I will always be a Lyoto fan...


FTR...as it stands right now Im hungover and havent even seen the fights I was at my best friends engagement party till 3....his fiancee didnt want fights on and she begged me not to leave so imagine how I feel right now!!!!



Congrats to all the Shogun fans and Respect....


----------



## Terror Kovenant

Theres definitely a lot of interesting fights to come. 

If Rampage beats Rashad (which I'm doubting), then we'll get to see Rampage get ******* annihilated again by Shogun.

Little Nog vs Shogun 2 would b excellent as well.

And then I'm very anxious to see Shogun break Silva's streak.


----------



## truthBtold

it is funny on this forum and many others i have lurked, the machida fans are constantly laughing at anybody who thinks he can be beaten or isnt easily the top LHW in the world.no more beating Brock dreams? no more great stories about how he can beat anderson?? who karate is taking over MMA, he won all 5 rounds the 1st fight, etc etc

for 7 months, anybody that lurks or posts on any MMA site had to deal with so many pompous machida fans acting like Gurus of MMA and anybody who didnt bow down to Machida knew little to nothing.The sweetness of watching huge machida fans humbled, asking for mercy, much like machida himself, is thrilling. perhaps shogun fans wont be as delusional fanboys during his reign and annoy the hell out of everybody with jesus walking on water type stories.Machida is a very good stratigist. He doesnt have a Samuri heart tho. He is scared when pushes comes to shove and things get rough.

Thats what we learned about Machida last night. Look forward to pics of his big ass bruised face while Shogun dances the night away with his wife, looking like a Million bucks... just like the last fight. Ppl dont wanna say it, so i will. Machida crumbled once his face got hit. His dad talked about not wanting his son to get hit in the face too much or he would retire.

My suggestion?? Dont fight Shogun Rua, EVER, again.


----------



## coldcall420

truthBtold said:


> it is funny on this forum and many others i have lurked, the machida fans are constantly laughing at anybody who thinks he can be beaten or isnt easily the top LHW in the world.no more beating Brock dreams? no more great stories about how he can beat anderson?? who karate is taking over MMA, he won all 5 rounds the 1st fight, etc etc
> 
> for 7 months, anybody that lurks or posts on any MMA site had to deal with so many pompous machida fans acting like Gurus of MMA and anybody who didnt bow down to Machida knew little to nothing.The sweetness of watching huge machida fans humbled, asking for mercy, much like machida himself, is thrilling. perhaps shogun fans wont be as delusional fanboys during his reign and annoy the hell out of everybody with jesus walking on water type stories.Machida is a very good stratigist. He doesnt have a Samuri heart tho. He is scared when pushes comes to shove and things get rough.
> 
> Thats what we learned about Machida last night. Look forward to pics of his big ass bruised face while Shogun dances the night away with his wife, looking like a Million bucks... just like the last fight. Ppl dont wanna say it, so i will. Machida crumbled once his face got hit. His dad talked about not wanting his son to get hit in the face too much or he would retire.
> 
> My suggestion?? Dont fight Shogun Rua, EVER, again.


 
Maybe you should go back to lurking, everyone is going to lose sooner or later, lurking for months to talk shit after the fact is awesome!!!!:thumbsdown: Eoither way you act like everything and everyone Machida has run through dont matter....those are the people he will be beating to get his belt back.......its nt like his Karate doesnt work, buddy got caught simple, that doesnt nullify his skill or accomplishments to this point nor take away from their ability to be effective in the future....:thumbsup:


----------



## Danm2501

He wasn't just caught. Shogun dominated the stand-up exchanges. Machida was forced to try and take the fight to the ground, but it looked like he started to panic once Shogun shook him off and stood back-up. Muay Thai appears to be the kryptonite for Machida Karate, and Shogun's extra aggression in this fight allowed him to dominate Machida on the feet and knock him out. 2-0 Shogun AFAIC.

I'm sure Lyoto will be back, and will take out a few top contenders, but I simply don't see him beating Shogun, unless he does something drastic to his game, which I don't see happening. Shogun has his number, and as long as he's champion I don't see Lyoto getting his title back.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

truthBtold said:


> it is funny on this forum and many others i have lurked, the machida fans are constantly laughing at anybody who thinks he can be beaten or isnt easily the top LHW in the world.no more beating Brock dreams? no more great stories about how he can beat anderson?? who karate is taking over MMA, he won all 5 rounds the 1st fight, etc etc
> 
> for 7 months, anybody that lurks or posts on any MMA site had to deal with so many pompous machida fans acting like Gurus of MMA and anybody who didnt bow down to Machida knew little to nothing.The sweetness of watching huge machida fans humbled, asking for mercy, much like machida himself, is thrilling. perhaps shogun fans wont be as delusional fanboys during his reign and annoy the hell out of everybody with jesus walking on water type stories.Machida is a very good stratigist. He doesnt have a Samuri heart tho. He is scared when pushes comes to shove and things get rough.
> 
> Thats what we learned about Machida last night. Look forward to pics of his big ass bruised face while Shogun dances the night away with his wife, looking like a Million bucks... just like the last fight. Ppl dont wanna say it, so i will. Machida crumbled once his face got hit. His dad talked about not wanting his son to get hit in the face too much or he would retire.
> 
> My suggestion?? Dont fight Shogun Rua, EVER, again.


I might get yelled at my a mod for this, but who cares. I knew someone was going to talk a bunch of shit and push me over the edge. 

You are a serious douchebag. **** you. Machida lost, yes. He got seriously demolished, and it kills me! As for your points, there are many fanboys of Machida, but there are fanboys of every fighter that believe they are the divine reincarnated. Your smarmy comments that insult not only myself, but every other Machida fan or proponent of the fighter who believed he could beat Rua disgusts me. I'm humble in defeat, I lost thousands of points on here on Machida, and have to eat most of my words about his skills and mindset for this fight due to his terrible performance. But it takes a lot more respect and maturity to be humble in victory rather than in defeat, thank you for showing your lack there of. You should go back to lurking and keep your imbecilic opinions to yourself.


----------



## truthBtold

coldcall420 said:


> Maybe you should go back to lurking, everyone is going to lose sooner or later, lurking for months to talk shit after the fact is awesome!!!!:thumbsdown: Eoither way you act like everything and everyone Machida has run through dont matter....those are the people he will be beating to get his belt back.......its nt like his Karate doesnt work, buddy got caught simple, that doesnt nullify his skill or accomplishments to this point nor take away from their ability to be effective in the future....:thumbsup:


 Machida was dominanted.... PERIOD :thumbsup: im not the one who acted like he was unbeatable.... PERIOD :thumbsup: he looked scared and his chin is suspect. Ive been lurking aroung long enough to know your one of the biggest offenders in the machida fan click on this forum.... :thumbsup: you talk down to ppl constantly regarding machida and laugh at ppl who think he may not be as good as ppl are saying, PERIOD :thumbsdown:

the machida era is over. PERIOD :thumbsup: nobody wants to see a rematch. he should fight jon jones IMO but he will lose that too.
People are gonna walk thru his pillow punches and KO him. Any elite striker in the game. Yea i know, Shogun is the only one he faced.

BTW its funny Machida fans would talk about being humble in victory?? didnt he win the 1st 3 rounds, EASILY?? PERIOD??
Machida wasnt humble in his false victory, nor his father or anderson. nor his fans. take what you give.


----------



## Soojooko

truthBtold said:


> it is funny on this forum and many others i have lurked, the machida fans are constantly laughing at anybody who thinks he can be beaten or isnt easily the top LHW in the world.no more beating Brock dreams? no more great stories about how he can beat anderson?? who karate is taking over MMA, he won all 5 rounds the 1st fight, etc etc
> 
> for 7 months, anybody that lurks or posts on any MMA site had to deal with so many pompous machida fans acting like Gurus of MMA and anybody who didnt bow down to Machida knew little to nothing.The sweetness of watching huge machida fans humbled, asking for mercy, much like machida himself, is thrilling. perhaps shogun fans wont be as delusional fanboys during his reign and annoy the hell out of everybody with jesus walking on water type stories.Machida is a very good stratigist. He doesnt have a Samuri heart tho. He is scared when pushes comes to shove and things get rough.
> 
> Thats what we learned about Machida last night. Look forward to pics of his big ass bruised face while Shogun dances the night away with his wife, looking like a Million bucks... just like the last fight. Ppl dont wanna say it, so i will. Machida crumbled once his face got hit. His dad talked about not wanting his son to get hit in the face too much or he would retire.
> 
> My suggestion?? Dont fight Shogun Rua, EVER, again.


How brave. Lurking in the shadows until the golden opportunity presents itself for you to burst into the scene and make a comment.... after the fight... when you know you wont get it wrong. Wow. Why not come out of lurksville *before* the fight and declare your views, eh? You know... take a risk. Put yourself out there. Make a suggestion and stick to it.

You sir, are what we call a bottle-job here in the UK. Go back to lurking as has been previous suggested.

anyway....

What a fight! I never ever expected to see Lyoto wiped out and helpless like that. It'll take a while to get over thats for sure.

Shogun is immense.​


----------



## coldcall420

truthBtold said:


> it is funny on this forum and many others i have lurked, the machida fans are constantly laughing at anybody who thinks he can be beaten or isnt easily the top LHW in the world.no more beating Brock dreams? no more great stories about how he can beat anderson?? who karate is taking over MMA, he won all 5 rounds the 1st fight, etc etc
> 
> for 7 months, anybody that lurks or posts on any MMA site had to deal with so many pompous machida fans acting like Gurus of MMA and anybody who didnt bow down to Machida knew little to nothing.The sweetness of watching huge machida fans humbled, asking for mercy, much like machida himself, is thrilling. perhaps shogun fans wont be as delusional fanboys during his reign and annoy the hell out of everybody with jesus walking on water type stories.Machida is a very good stratigist. He doesnt have a Samuri heart tho. He is scared when pushes comes to shove and things get rough.
> 
> Thats what we learned about Machida last night. Look forward to pics of his big ass bruised face while Shogun dances the night away with his wife, looking like a Million bucks... just like the last fight. Ppl dont wanna say it, so i will. Machida crumbled once his face got hit. His dad talked about not wanting his son to get hit in the face too much or he would retire.
> 
> My suggestion?? Dont fight Shogun Rua, EVER, again.





Squirrelfighter said:


> I might get yelled at my a mod for this, but who cares. I knew someone was going to talk a bunch of shit and push me over the edge.
> 
> You are a serious douchebag. **** you. Machida lost, yes. He got seriously demolished, and it kills me! As for your points, there are many fanboys of Machida, but there are fanboys of every fighter that believe they are the divine reincarnated. Your smarmy comments that insult not only myself, but every other Machida fan or proponent of the fighter who believed he could beat Rua disgusts me. I'm humble in defeat, I lost thousands of points on here on Machida, and have to eat most of my words about his skills and mindset for this fight due to his terrible performance. But it takes a lot more respect and maturity to be humble in victory rather than in defeat, thank you for showing your lack there of. You should go back to lurking and keep your imbecilic opinions to yourself.


 
^^^THIS^^^




I have said and will say again, he lost, it happens he got caught and then finished from what I have been told, rubbing it in people faces is stupid and basically you do it to be an ass.....

Thats why he's all red Squirrel.....anyway MY colors and members here like Squirrelfighter dont run, you are not going to get a bunch of excuses your going to get a congrats to Shogun and his fans and a we will be back, cuz just a reminder for you Lyoto basically cleaned out the LHW div, you dont think a rubber match is down the road your crazy, and before you post Rua will win that.....dont cuz you dont have a crystal ball, you dont even have the marbles to post you position until after the fight....


----------



## OliverTwist

The first fight you could tell that Shogun was a bit hesitant, probably because of all the hype around Machida. This fight he just went balls to the walls, and wasn't scared of Machidas punches, tagged and finished him.

Scary thing is Machidas style revolves around creating space, what if other fighters show the same lets trade punches because we know Machida doesn't have a chin or punching power mentality?


----------



## truthBtold

coldcall420 said:


> ^^^THIS^^^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have said and will say again, he lost, it happens he got caught and then finished from what I have been told, rubbing it in people faces is stupid and basically you do it to be an ass.....
> 
> Thats why he's all red Squirrel.....anyway MY colors and members here like Squirrelfighter dont run, you are not going to get a bunch of excuses your going to get a congrats to Shogun and his fans and a we will be back, cuz just a reminder for you Lyoto basically cleaned out the LHW div, you dont think a rubber match is down the road your crazy, and before you post Rua will win that.....dont cuz you dont have a crystal ball, you dont even have the marbles to post you position until after the fight....


 just the type of nonsense we gotta hear. Lyoto basically cleared out the LHW division?? what kind of delusional dreamworld are you in??nobody wants a rematch. and if Andy wins the belt Lyoto will likely have to move down to 185 where he should probably be.

Funny that beating Sokky, Rashad and T. Silva is now "Clearing out the LHW division" according to Machida fanboys. Make me neg. I dont post on forums because pre fight ppl just get in big shit fights like you do with ppl constantly because you cant adjust your opinion to see past Machidas nutsack, so whats the point?? i said shogun would win prefight, voted on it, didnt want to talk with delusional fanboys about it, tho.

but now, i want to see how mad and disrespectful you get when the roles are reversed. because you all seem to think you took your false win in stride and didnt talk down to ppl who question if machida was truely the top guy??

HE ISNT. he will never be again. he is a footnote champion like forrest griffen, you will learn to accept that one day.
When Shogun lost i was very disappointed and saw alot of posts that made me a bit angry from machida fans. i sucked it up tho.... when you lose, thats what you do, you suck it up. seems machida fans cant do that much either, should expect some gloating cuz LORD KNOWS you all would have gloated ALL DAY AND NIGHT had Machida KO'D Shogun.


----------



## Rusko

HitOrGetHit said:


> I do think some of it had to do with Machida's left hand being untested but Shogun came in looking great.



Untested? I dont believe it


----------



## truthBtold

i give up. im back to lurking!! cant even have a fun needling conversation with machida fans without them getting butthurt. i hope he loses everytime so i can see them cry.wont be back til machida loses again. shouldnt take long and enjoy the forum :thumb02:


----------



## Squirrelfighter

truthBtold said:


> just the type of nonsense we gotta hear. Lyoto basically cleared out the LHW division?? what kind of delusional dreamworld are you in??nobody wants a rematch. and if Andy wins the belt Lyoto will likely have to move down to 185 where he should probably be.
> 
> Funny that beating Sokky, Rashad and T. Silva is now "Clearing out the LHW division" according to Machida fanboys. Make me neg. I dont post on forums because pre fight ppl just get in big shit fights like you do with ppl constantly because you cant adjust your opinion to see past Machidas nutsack, so whats the point?? i said shogun would win prefight, voted on it, didnt want to talk with delusional fanboys about it, tho.
> 
> but now, i want to see how mad and disrespectful you get when the roles are reversed. because you all seem to think you took your false win in stride and didnt talk down to ppl who question if machida was truely the top guy??
> 
> HE ISNT. he will never be again. he is a footnote champion like forrest griffen, you will learn to accept that one day.



Are you serious with this stuff dude? Machida as a MW? He actually beat 8 LHWs, the only one's of any notoriety he didn't beat were Jones, Rampage and Liddell. When you beatdown an entire division from can to champ without even coming close to losing, you are not a "footnote champion" moron. 

And your the one who was disrespectful. Insulting an entire denomination of fans is what is commonly refered to by non-shitheads as disrespectful. Also I do see the irony in that last statement.


----------



## wakeboy

*Lettuce Ketchup On Reality*

Shogun just defended his belt for the first time quite successfully.

I'm happy all the annoying fuckers on here will be finally jumping off the lyoto bandwagon...

"Lyoto is going to knock shogun out" funniest shit ive ever heard.

Do you guys still think lyoto won that first fight:confused02:


----------



## coldcall420

^^^^TROLLS GO ON IGNORE^^^^



Just watched the fight I had Lyoto wining the 1st till he got caught, I have seen it with my own eye's now so two take dows and stuffed Rua's attmpts butswitched from southpaw (which i prefer him to stand when fighting Rua) and then got caught with hat last overhand right from Rua while he was terying to throw a right from traditional stance.....


NOTHING....about that fight inicated Lyoto Machida will not be back or was some flash in the pan like the troll above says.....17-0 AND undefeated in the UFC till yest is no flash in the pan, but your time here I expect will be....


----------



## Soojooko

truthBtold said:


> i give up. im back to lurking!! cant even have a fun needling conversation with machida fans without them getting butthurt. i hope he loses everytime so i can see them cry.wont be back til machida loses again. shouldnt take long and enjoy the forum :thumb02:


----------



## Rusko

truthBtold said:


> i. Ppl dont wanna say it, so i will. Machida crumbled once his face got hit. His dad talked about not wanting his son to get hit in the face too much or he would retire.


You know, I had the same feeling. It doesnt mean I am right but machida looked so stunned after he got cought on the nose, his face expression looked really weird. but hey not everyone is Big nog


----------



## Nomale

truthBtold said:


> just the type of nonsense we gotta hear. Lyoto basically cleared out the LHW division?? what kind of delusional dreamworld are you in??nobody wants a rematch. and if Andy wins the belt Lyoto will likely have to move down to 185 where he should probably be.
> 
> Funny that beating Sokky, Rashad and T. Silva is now "Clearing out the LHW division" according to Machida fanboys. Make me neg. I dont post on forums because pre fight ppl just get in big shit fights like you do with ppl constantly because you cant adjust your opinion to see past Machidas nutsack, so whats the point?? i said shogun would win prefight, voted on it, didnt want to talk with delusional fanboys about it, tho.
> 
> but now, i want to see how mad and disrespectful you get when the roles are reversed. because you all seem to think you took your false win in stride and didnt talk down to ppl who question if machida was truely the top guy??
> 
> HE ISNT. he will never be again. he is a footnote champion like forrest griffen, you will learn to accept that one day.
> When Shogun lost i was very disappointed and saw alot of posts that made me a bit angry from machida fans. i sucked it up tho.... when you lose, thats what you do, you suck it up. seems machida fans cant do that much either, *should expect some gloating* cuz LORD KNOWS you all would have gloated ALL DAY AND NIGHT had Machida KO'D Shogun.


What gloating are you referring to?


----------



## OliverTwist

i think it was because shogun wasn't being as cautious as last time, and maybe machida was shocked..... I defeinetly was, I wanted him to do that last fight...... but oh wells, 1st round domination and KO is alright with me lol :thumb01:


----------



## TraMaI

So TruthBTold comes in, shouts random crap about Machida fanboys getting what they deserve with some of the most horrid grammar and spelling I've ever had the displeasure to lay eyes on and then bails to lurk until he can be right again? 

Sounds like we may have a new troll, boys.


----------



## Maaz

where are the machida fanboys in this thread? Maybe they are piss drinking with lyoto into depression.


----------



## TraMaI

Maaz said:


> where are the machida fanboys in this thread? Maybe they are piss drinking with lyoto into depression.


I'm a Machida fan and I'm here. I applauded Shogun for that fight. I do still believe that Machida won the first one, too. When I watch fights I try as hard as possible to check my bias at the door and I had Machida winning 3 of 5 rounds. Many people's views were skewed by Rogan's bias in that fight, too. I'll be the first to say it WAS a damn close fight and I wouldn't have been surprised to see it go either way, but I personally had it going Machida's way.

My hat is off to Shogun though, it's a true return to form for someone I never thought would return due to the change in environment and rules. Good on him.






ALSO: TruthBTold (or should I say Alizio?) Have a nice ban buddy.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

TraMaI said:


> ALSO: TruthBTold (or should I say Alizio?) Have a nice ban buddy.


You're my hero!


----------



## outstrike

truthBtold said:


> just the type of nonsense we gotta hear. Lyoto basically cleared out the LHW division?? what kind of delusional dreamworld are you in??nobody wants a rematch. and if Andy wins the belt Lyoto will likely have to move down to 185 where he should probably be.
> 
> Funny that beating Sokky, Rashad and T. Silva is now "Clearing out the LHW division" according to Machida fanboys. Make me neg. I dont post on forums because pre fight ppl just get in big shit fights like you do with ppl constantly because you cant adjust your opinion to see past Machidas nutsack, so whats the point?? i said shogun would win prefight, voted on it, didnt want to talk with delusional fanboys about it, tho.
> 
> but now, i want to see how mad and disrespectful you get when the roles are reversed. because you all seem to think you took your false win in stride and didnt talk down to ppl who question if machida was truely the top guy??
> 
> HE ISNT. he will never be again. he is a footnote champion like forrest griffen, you will learn to accept that one day.
> When Shogun lost i was very disappointed and saw alot of posts that made me a bit angry from machida fans. i sucked it up tho.... when you lose, thats what you do, you suck it up. seems machida fans cant do that much either, should expect some gloating cuz LORD KNOWS you all would have gloated ALL DAY AND NIGHT had Machida KO'D Shogun.


That footnote champion forrest griffin defeated shogun and look at shogun now


----------



## Spec0688

Shogun is a completely different fighter, he had a lot of physical problems and he just wasnt the same. Will he be the champ for the next 2-3 years? who knows.

The LHW division is stacked and there are a number of fighters who can pose a threat to Shogun.


----------



## coldcall420

Maaz said:


> where are the machida fanboys in this thread? Maybe they are piss drinking with lyoto into depression.


 
REPPIN right here ace....I have and always will be a Machida fan, I had him winning that round till he got caught, listen your loooking at prob the 2 best LHW in the div by far so lets keep things in perspective, Machida was in the fight till he got caught so basically they have each won one, who will Machida fight next, I suspect the loser of Rampage Rashad, either way dont think Machida's skills arent there nor that he wont be back, he will only be more driven now than ever and at his age with his talent.....you better expect to see him fight Rua again!!!! 



TraMaI said:


> So TruthBTold comes in, shouts random crap about Machida fanboys getting what they deserve with some of the most horrid grammar and spelling I've ever had the displeasure to lay eyes on and then bails to lurk until he can be right again?
> 
> Sounds like we may have a new troll, boys.





Squirrelfighter said:


> You're my hero!


 
Tra and Squirrel, I was just chating with alizio on AIM that was his bitch ass on that thread you know he repped me on that thread LOL....what a weirdo...

Boys, I was at an engagement party last night (Tr you know all bout those)my best buddy's I will be the best man and his girl just didn't want fights on, she was like not at my engagement she's prego as well so i wasn't gonna press the issue, I stayed all night like a real friend and then brought the chick I was with home so I have only see the Lyoto fight on the internet....


----------



## suffersystem

I'm just glad it was a definitive win on Rua's part. Down the road after each guy has a few more bouts under their belts we could possibly see another re-match, although I still think the outcome will be the same. Machida seems to have taken it well, and maybe this is what he needed to become a better fighter, and find ways to improve himself. Noone is unbeatable for too long, so it was always only a matter fo time really until someone found a way to beat him.


----------



## brucelee23

WOW, shogun is for real ! Machida went out quick and easily, that surprised me. Maybe the whole reason his style is made to be so ellusive is because he had to protect his weak jaw. ??


----------



## The Horticulturist

I will say one thing right now, Chuck Liddell is probably pretty happy that he can say the only guys to KO/TKO him were all at one time LHW champ. 

A comeback for him does not seem nearly as daunting as it might have right after UFC 97


----------



## FrodoFraggins

I watched the fight again today, but this time with the volume muted and Machida won imo.


PS: That joke is lame and isn't even mine.


----------



## Diokhan

FrodoFraggins said:


> I watched the fight again today, but this time with the volume muted and Machida won imo.
> 
> 
> PS: That joke is lame and isn't even mine.


I don't care whose joke that is, I still spilled my cola by bursting into laughter.


----------



## D.P.

So happy right now.


----------



## streetpunk08

Shogun looked awesome, I was screaming so loud when Lyoto went down. First of all, Lyoto was not gassed his nose got tagged and was bleeding which forced him to breathe through his mouth. Lyoto didn't just get caught either, he threw a leaping knee that landed on Shogun, and then immediately tried throwing the same strike, Shogun time it and countered with an overhand right straight to the temple, Chute Boxe guys know how to finish a hurt fighter too. Machida took Shogun down twice, that right there sums the fight up imo, Shogun showed no fear and was walking Machida down and was catching him.


----------



## Mirage445

I bed Ed Soares is happy he doesn't have to drink his own pee now.


----------



## Life B Ez

streetpunk08 said:


> Shogun looked awesome, I was screaming so loud when Lyoto went down. First of all, Lyoto was not gassed his nose got tagged and was bleeding which forced him to breathe through his mouth. Lyoto didn't just get caught either, he threw a leaping knee that landed on Shogun, and then immediately tried throwing the same strike, Shogun time it and countered with an overhand right straight to the temple, Chute Boxe guys know how to finish a hurt fighter too. Machida took Shogun down twice, that right there sums the fight up imo, Shogun showed no fear and was walking Machida down and was catching him.


Is that the excuse they are handing out this time? He wasn't injured he was gassed.........that doesn't really say anything other then Machida's cardio really sucks, he was gassed after three minutes, but his plan seemed to be to take Shogun down? How about Shogun broke his nose and he couldn't breathe out of it, so he had to open his mouth and Lyoto was scared to death to fight Shogun again.....


----------



## Leed

FrodoFraggins said:


> I watched the fight again today, but this time with the volume muted and Machida won imo.



I'm a Machida fan, but lol.. :thumb02:


----------



## Life B Ez

Still nothing from ColdCall, is he alright? Someone stop him from burning all his Machida memorabilia please, yes urine therapy is stupid, but you don't have to hate the guy now.


----------



## swpthleg

He's fine. He won't miss a beat, and neither will Lyoto.


----------



## 420atalon

swpthleg said:


> He's fine. He won't miss a beat, and neither will Lyoto.


He popped his head in one of these threads, so yeah he is fine.

His vbookie sure did take a beating though lol. Down under 200k now.


----------



## jcal

420atalon said:


> He popped his head in one of these threads, so yeah he is fine.
> 
> His vbookie sure did take a beating though lol. Down under 200k now.


Its amazing that Machida was the fav going in, especially after you watch the first fight. Just amazing.:confused02:


----------



## HitOrGetHit

jcal said:


> Its amazing that Machida was the fav going in, especially after you watch the first fight. Just amazing.:confused02:


I guess if you thought that Shogun won the fight. It was close and plenty of people defended each side.


----------



## AceofSpades187

Had a amazing weekend at MTL watching was my first event was amazing when Shogun got the K.o the whole place exploded congrats on Shogun for the win


----------



## otallarico

For Machida !

Hey, Lyoto, stop drinking your own pee and start to train. 

Let's see "Lyoto vs Shogun 3" --> when Shogun will kick your ass for ever !


----------



## sNatch204

lol @ the people saying this rematch is stupid and Shogun only has leg kicks over Machida. Joe Rogan or no Joe Rogan, i scored the 1st fight 4-1 when i watched it, twice. And felt sick when they gave it to Machida. Shogun proved today that he is one of the scariest people alive at 205. No1 could even HIT Machida before Shogun arrived. Hes going to mess people up for a while.


----------



## osmium

Life B Ez said:


> I wasn't saying you said any of those things, I just meant that it was the popular opinion and it can be wrong.
> 
> You had some decent points until Andy KOing Shogun....that would not happen. Shogun has a chin like Dan Henderson, it would take a train to KO him.
> 
> You're painting Shogun to be kind of slow, but he just showed he's as fast, if not possibly faster than the quickest guy at 205.
> 
> Also, Anderson has NEVER, as in NEVER fought a serious striker, so we really have no idea what this fight would look like because we have no Silva fights to kind of compare, or see how he reacts to strikers. It's easy to bob and weave around Forrest Griffin and Chris Leben and hell even Rich Franklin, none of those guys are anything like Shogun.


You seem to be equating hand speed to serious striker. Saying Forrest isn't a serious striker but Shogun and Rampage are is funny also how did Forrest do standing against both of those guys. It is about how your striking skills match up not so much how great of a striker you are. The Hendo chin comment is funny also how did Hendo's super chin hold up to Silva not well at all as I recall.

Shogun has good hand speed he doesn't have great handspeed and he has bad technique when throwing. Have you seen Chuck/Wandy? That is what happens when a really good counter puncher fights a guy who throws hands like that. Shogun's best bet would be trying to get inside with safer striking and take Silva down not standing with him and throwing down.


----------



## Wookie

I've never been so happy to lose 300 credits. Long live the Machida error!!!


----------



## coldcall420

coldcall420 said:


> My colors dont run unlike some on this forum.......I will always be a Lyoto fan...
> 
> 
> FTR...as it stands right now Im hungover and havent even seen the fights I was at my best friends engagement party till 3....his fiancee didnt want fights on and she begged me not to leave so imagine how I feel right now!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats to all the Shogun fans and Respect....





coldcall420 said:


> Maybe you should go back to lurking, everyone is going to lose sooner or later, lurking for months to talk shit after the fact is awesome!!!!:thumbsdown: Eoither way you act like everything and everyone Machida has run through dont matter....those are the people he will be beating to get his belt back.......its nt like his Karate doesnt work, buddy got caught simple, that doesnt nullify his skill or accomplishments to this point nor take away from their ability to be effective in the future....:thumbsup:





coldcall420 said:


> ^^^THIS^^^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have said and will say again, he lost, it happens he got caught and then finished from what I have been told, rubbing it in people faces is stupid and basically you do it to be an ass.....
> 
> Thats why he's all red Squirrel.....anyway MY colors and members here like Squirrelfighter dont run, you are not going to get a bunch of excuses your going to get a congrats to Shogun and his fans and a we will be back, cuz just a reminder for you Lyoto basically cleaned out the LHW div, you dont think a rubber match is down the road your crazy, and before you post Rua will win that.....dont cuz you dont have a crystal ball, you dont even have the marbles to post you position until after the fight....





coldcall420 said:


> ^^^^TROLLS GO ON IGNORE^^^^
> 
> 
> 
> Just watched the fight I had Lyoto wining the 1st till he got caught, I have seen it with my own eye's now so two take dows and stuffed Rua's attmpts butswitched from southpaw (which i prefer him to stand when fighting Rua) and then got caught with hat last overhand right from Rua while he was terying to throw a right from traditional stance.....
> 
> 
> NOTHING....about that fight inicated Lyoto Machida will not be back or was some flash in the pan like the troll above says.....17-0 AND undefeated in the UFC till yest is no flash in the pan, but your time here I expect will be....





Life B Ez said:


> Still nothing from ColdCall, is he alright? Someone stop him from burning all his Machida memorabilia please, yes urine therapy is stupid, but you don't have to hate the guy now.


 
:confused05:READ THE WHOLE THREAD SON......ftr...LOST 63 MILLION LAST NIGHT......


----------



## Life B Ez

osmium said:


> You seem to be equating hand speed to serious striker. Saying Forrest isn't a serious striker but Shogun and Rampage are is funny also how did Forrest do standing against both of those guys. It is about how your striking skills match up not so much how great of a striker you are. The Hendo chin comment is funny also how did Hendo's super chin hold up to Silva not well at all as I recall.
> 
> Shogun has good hand speed he doesn't have great handspeed and he has bad technique when throwing. Have you seen Chuck/Wandy? That is what happens when a really good counter puncher fights a guy who throws hands like that. Shogun's best bet would be trying to get inside with safer striking and take Silva down not standing with him and throwing down.


Okay, how about Silva has never fought anyone with serious KO power? 

I love how sure you are that you're always right and anyone that disagrees is completely wrong....



> READ THE WHOLE THREAD SON......ftr...LOST 63 MILLION LAST NIGHT......


CC what is up, that sucks man.....I tried to tell you? But you wouldn't listen haha.

FTR, I didn't really think you were going to start hating on the Karate Kid now, I was just bullshitin.


----------



## Dakota?

coldcall420 said:


> :confused05:READ THE WHOLE THREAD SON......ftr...LOST 63 MILLION LAST NIGHT......


+rep man

Nothing but class from you.


----------



## coldcall420

@ Life....i dont think Lyoto wouldn't have a good shot of beating Shogun, in fact if he was afraid thats even better, this isnt something machida will deal well with, he will train harder now IMO than ever and be even more focused.....


What won the fight for Shogun obviously was catching Machida again i thought with the 2 take downs and the few combo's he was winning but then he got caught....it sucks but the Respect goes to Shogun and his fans for their support to him, he won this because he f*ckin A brought it right out the gate and overwhelmed Lyoto imo....

Yes, Lyoto will be back, truly I feel sorry for whoever he fights next......:thumbsup:


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> @ Life....i dont think Lyoto wouldn't have a good shot of beating Shogun, in fact if he was afraid thats even better, this isnt something machida will deal well with, he will train harder now IMO than ever and be even more focused.....
> 
> 
> What won the fight for Shogun obviously was catching Machida again i thought with the 2 take downs and the few combo's he was winning but then he got caught....it sucks but the Respect goes to Shogun and his fans for their support to him, he won this because he f*ckin A brought it right out the gate and overwhelmed Lyoto imo....
> 
> Yes, Lyoto will be back, truly I feel sorry for whoever he fights next......:thumbsup:


I don't think so, he took Shogun down, but he wasn't doing anything on the ground, he just took him down and GSP'd him, except Shogun got right back up. 

Shogun seems to have got Lyoto's timing down, because Shogun was tagging him when he tried to bounce in and out. Rua just seems to be Lyoto's foil, just a bad style and ability match up for Machida. Lyoto has to recover mentally though, it would be hard to go 15 fights without ever really getting hit and then this one guy beats you up twice. That KO was brutal last night, rushing back into the cage is a bad imo, he needs to get his mind right first. 

BTW. What was with no shaking Shogun's hand and congratulating him after the fight? I know he got KO'd but still show the man some respect.


----------



## osmium

Life B Ez said:


> Okay, how about Silva has never fought anyone with serious KO power?
> 
> I love how sure you are that you're always right and anyone that disagrees is completely wrong....


It isn't that I am always 100% right it is that you aren't offering anything of value. You just make sweeping statements that aren't true. Your latest one is that Dan Henderson, Nate Marquardt, and Patrick Cote don't have KO power.


----------



## Life B Ez

osmium said:


> It isn't that I am always 100% right it is that you aren't offering anything of value. You just make sweeping statements that aren't true. Your latest one is that Dan Henderson, Nate Marquardt, and Patrick Cote don't have KO power.


This is just getting annoying, I don't know why I respond to your comments but Hendo is not a real striker, he just has a right hand, Cote isn't much of a striker either. Nate is probably about the best striker with power that Silva has fought. I'm done with this though, I'm letting you troll me.....


----------



## Devil_Bingo

The first fight was close. The first round was close aswell, well i thought it was anyways. Untill Shogun KO'd him. Wanted Shogun to win both times congrats. Think there will be a rubber match here.


----------



## Mckeever

Life B Ez said:


> This is just getting annoying, I don't know why I respond to your comments but Hendo is not a real striker, he just has a right hand, Cote isn't much of a striker either. Nate is probably about the best striker with power that Silva has fought. I'm done with this though, I'm letting you troll me.....


Hes not trolling you, hes owning you in this argument so now you resort to trolling. You said Anderson Silva has never faced any one with real KO power, simply a false statement. Henderson, Cote and nate all have very real, serious KO power, especially Dan Henderson. They may not be the most elite strikers (nate is pretty damn good at striking now though) but man, they are far from average, they are all good strikers and posses KO power. 

Silva vs shogun would be very interesting. Shogun has proven to be very intelligent when it comes to game plans and executing them for specific fighters lately. Anderson Silva relies on his counters too much imo. When you look at all of his KO/TKO victories it has been through the other guy coming in and getting tagged on the counter. Silva has trouble finishing fights wehn he has to be the aggressor, when he has to be the guy moving forwards. I think shogun would fight very smart and use some thing similar to the machida first fight, picking andy apart with leg kicks and timing silvas strikes and countering (both countering each other). Honestly, dont think i could choose a winner, but id edge slightly towards silva.


----------



## Life B Ez

Mckeever said:


> Hes not trolling you, hes owning you in this argument so now you resort to trolling. You said Anderson Silva has never faced any one with real KO power, simply a false statement. Henderson, Cote and nate all have very real, serious KO power, especially Dan Henderson. They may not be the most elite strikers (nate is pretty damn good at striking now though) but man, they are far from average, they are all good strikers and posses KO power.


So Dan has hand speed and KO power? I love Dan Henderson, but I've never seen him throw a punch I didn't see coming. Like I said Nate was the best mix that Silva has ever fought and Nate doesn't exactly have one punch KO power and don't use the Maia fight please.

None of those guys are serious strikers, Silva has not fought a real striker.


----------



## Mckeever

Life B Ez said:


> So Dan has hand speed and KO power? I love Dan Henderson, but I've never seen him throw a punch I didn't see coming. Like I said Nate was the best mix that Silva has ever fought and Nate doesn't exactly have one punch KO power and don't use the Maia fight please.
> 
> None of those guys are serious strikers, Silva has not fought a real striker.


Man, why cant you just accept what you said, apologise (or just ignore it) and move on, instead of trying to prove you were right in the first place when you were wrong. I agree about the serious striker part, vitor would be the most serious striker silva would face. BUT then you went on to say that silva has not faced any one "with real KO power" which is just false man. Bisping didnt see Hendos right handed, shields didnt see it in the first round, wanderlei silva didnt see it. Hendo and cote may not be serious/elite strikers, but they do possess KO power which always makes them a threat standing. I didnt mention Nate here, because i believe Nate is a very serious striker nowa days.

Seriously though man, dont call some one out for trolling when he is just trying to have a sensible, intelligent debate when you are struggling to find counter arguments.


----------



## Life B Ez

Mckeever said:


> Man, why cant you just accept what you said, apologise (or just ignore it) and move on, instead of trying to prove you were right in the first place when you were wrong. I agree about the serious striker part, vitor would be the most serious striker silva would face. BUT then you went on to say that silva has not faced any one "with real KO power" which is just false man. Bisping didnt see Hendos right handed, shields didnt see it in the first round, wanderlei silva didnt see it. Hendo and cote may not be serious/elite strikers, but they do possess KO power which always makes them a threat standing. I didnt mention Nate here, because i believe Nate is a very serious striker nowa days.
> 
> Seriously though man, dont call some one out for trolling when he is just trying to have a sensible, intelligent debate when you are struggling to find counter arguments.


If you had looked at the entire conversation you would know I was talking about strikers and he told me Shogun was not a good striker and would get KTFO. So I said anyone with KO power and he forgot I was talking about well rounded strikers and said Henderson......so how about you stop throwing hate on me before you read the whole thing. I'm pretty sure I know Henderson has power.....


----------



## BobbyCooper

Life B Ez said:


> BTW. What was with no shaking Shogun's hand and congratulating him after the fight? I know he got KO'd but still show the man some respect.


Oh my god Ez you are even worse then I thought you were.. grow up please!

I will leave you a neg rep for that comment when I am able too!


----------



## robnet77

Mckeever said:


> Silva vs shogun would be very interesting...
> 
> ... Honestly, dont think i could choose a winner, but id edge slightly towards silva.


you really must love Silva to give him edge against the champion of a higher weight class like Shogun, especially if you consider Silva was in trouble in his last fight (he admitted being forced to get by after being hit) and the impressive win of Rua (yes, Lyoto was doing well before getting KO'd, but we're still talking about a first round win).

Anyway if Silva does the Silva, he can be troublesome to most fighters, that's for sure.


----------



## Life B Ez

BobbyCooper said:


> Oh my god Ez you are even worse then I thought you were.. grow up please!
> 
> I will leave you a neg rep for that comment when I am able too!


So it's okay that he didn't shake Shogun's hand? How about you show some maturity and agree that it's a show of respect to shake Shogun's hand and congratulate him.....if Machida is a class act, which I think he is, he should have. The main reason I'm shocked he didn't, Shogun shook his hand after the first fight, unless you have a serious injury, you should show the other fighter respect.


----------



## Mckeever

Life B Ez said:


> So it's okay that he didn't shake Shogun's hand? How about you show some maturity and agree that it's a show of respect to shake Shogun's hand and congratulate him.....if Machida is a class act, which I think he is, he should have. The main reason I'm shocked he didn't, Shogun shook his hand after the first fight, unless you have a serious injury, you should show the other fighter respect.


Some of your posts are just crazy man, seriously, i dont know half the time whether your trolling or being serious, i really dont. Machida just got pretty badly KO'd after a fight in which he had so much to prove and you expect him to wake up and shake ruas hand straight away. Machida must of been so upset and devastated, im sure that was the last thing on his mind, like any one else that gets KO'd. They normally just leave the cage. Give the man a break, Machida is a class act and clearly respects the hell out of rua, he shown this pre fight, during the fight and in their last fight. Leave it out.


----------



## Life B Ez

Mckeever said:


> Some of your posts are just crazy man, seriously, i dont know half the time whether your trolling or being serious, i really dont. Machida just got pretty badly KO'd after a fight in which he had so much to prove and you expect him to wake up and shake ruas hand straight away. Machida must of been so upset and devastated, im sure that was the last thing on his mind, like any one else that gets KO'd. They normally just leave the cage. Give the man a break, Machida is a class act and clearly respects the hell out of rua, he shown this pre fight, during the fight and in their last fight. Leave it out.


He didn't show it during the pre-fight, they almost didn't shake hands. I have no doubt Machida is a class act and I don't think he did it to disrespect Rua, but it would have been nice to see. I was curios why he didn't. I get he was devastated, but I fully expected Machida to shake Shogun's hand after the fight, that is all. I'm not attacking the guy for not doing it, I just thought he was going to.

BTW. Does anyone know if Lyoto's orbital is actually broken? I thought I seen someone say it was, just curious, if anyone knows.
^^^^^
Not trolling, I do really want to know, I was a Machida fan before this thing with Shogun and I will be his fan as long as he isn't fighting Shogun.


----------



## Mckeever

Life B Ez said:


> He didn't show it during the pre-fight, they almost didn't shake hands. I have no doubt Machida is a class act and I don't think he did it to disrespect Rua, but it would have been nice to see. I was curios why he didn't. I get he was devastated, but I fully expected Machida to shake Shogun's hand after the fight, that is all. I'm not attacking the guy for not doing it, I just thought he was going to.
> 
> BTW. Does anyone know if Lyoto's orbital is actually broken? I thought I seen someone say it was, just curious, if anyone knows.
> ^^^^^
> Not trolling, I do really want to know, I was a Machida fan before this thing with Shogun and I will be his fan as long as he isn't fighting Shogun.


You dont think about shaking a mans hand after he brutally knocks you out cold, its just human nature, its very rare you see it happen. It doesnt in any way show disrespect. I take it you didnt see the weigh ins, both men showed great respect for each other and neither man talked trash pre fight after all of the controversy. Machida could of easily got annoyed with the fans and all of the controversy and started talking some shit, but he didnt.


----------



## Life B Ez

Mckeever said:


> You dont think about shaking a mans hand after he brutally knocks you out cold, its just human nature, its very rare you see it happen. It doesnt in any way show disrespect. I take it you didnt see the weigh ins, both men showed great respect for each other and neither man talked trash pre fight after all of the controversy. Machida could of easily got annoyed with the fans and all of the controversy and started talking some shit, but he didnt.


Like I said, I don't think Machida was trying to disrespect Shogun I just thought he was going to shake his hand. That is the only reason that I asked why he didn't, because I fully expected him to, because of the class act that he is. Another reason I was shocked they didn't look like they were going to touch gloves at the start.


----------



## Mckeever

Life B Ez said:


> Like I said, I don't think Machida was trying to disrespect Shogun I just thought he was going to shake his hand. That is the only reason that I asked why he didn't, because I fully expected him to, because of the class act that he is. Another reason I was shocked they didn't look like they were going to touch gloves at the start.


My god man, then why mention it in the first place? Like i said before, i will say it again, shaking the hand of a man who knocks you out cold as soon as you regain consciousness is the last thing on your mind, it is human nature, machida is human just like every one else, you should not have expected him to shake hands after losing like that, simple.

Also wtf?! They didnt look like they were going to touch gloves? Did you not see what happened? They didnt understand what the referee was saying when he said "touch gloves" in english, hence why he demonstrated the action of touching gloves and they immediately did so. I feel like im being trolled here but im not sure...


----------



## Life B Ez

Mckeever said:


> My god man, then why mention it in the first place? Like i said before, i will say it again, shaking the hand of a man who knocks you out cold as soon as you regain consciousness is the last thing on your mind, it is human nature, machida is human just like every one else, you should not have expected him to shake hands after losing like that, simple.
> 
> Also wtf?! They didnt look like they were going to touch gloves? Did you not see what happened? They didnt understand what the referee was saying when he said "touch gloves" in english, hence why he demonstrated the action of touching gloves and they immediately did so. I feel like im being trolled here but im not sure...


I brought it up because I was shocked by it, now you're trying to make me troll god damn. I just ask a question and you go ape shit, though this isn't the first time you've done this to me. 

Thanks for clarifying the glove touching thing, I don't know why that never occurred to me, haha.


----------



## Mckeever

Life B Ez said:


> I brought it up because I was shocked by it, now you're trying to make me troll god damn. I just ask a question and you go ape shit, though this isn't the first time you've done this to me.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying the glove touching thing, I don't know why that never occurred to me, haha.


Because it is such a dumb, stupid question to ask! Do you not understand that?! You dont get KO'd then wake up and think, i know, i'll shake his hand, you just dont ******* do that, competitive sport or not. Jesus.


----------



## Life B Ez

Mckeever said:


> Because it is such a dumb, stupid question to ask! Do you not understand that?! You dont get KO'd then wake up and think, i know, i'll shake his hand, you just dont ******* do that, competitive sport or not. Jesus.


Wow man.......I'm sorry Machida lost, but who the hell is trolling now. I was trying to not get into any kind of argument and you toss your own salad.....I'm done with you Mckeever......


----------



## Mckeever

Life B Ez said:


> Wow man.......I'm sorry Machida lost, but who the hell is trolling now. I was trying to not get into any kind of argument and you toss your own salad.....I'm done with you Mckeever......


Firstly, i was rooting for rua to win and was glad he did, secondly some of your posts are unbelievably stupid. Why didnt Machida shake ruas hand after getting KO'd, does he not respect him?!!! Dumb.

Laters.


----------



## Life B Ez

Mckeever said:


> Firstly, i was rooting for rua to win and was glad he did, secondly some of your posts are unbelievably stupid. Why didnt Machida shake ruas hand after getting KO'd, does he not respect him?!!! Dumb.
> 
> Laters.


Really? I said he didn't shake his hand because he doesn't respect him? Even though in the last couple of posts all I did was say I was shocked he didn't because he's such a class act?


> BTW. What was with no shaking Shogun's hand and congratulating him after the fight? I know he got KO'd but still show the man some respect.


Exactly what I said......just show the man some respect. I was honestly shocked Lyoto didn't because he is such a classy guy, but that is the like the fifth time I've said that and you can't get it through your thick skull, maybe you need your eyes checked.

^^
There's some trolling for you, because I know you so badly wanted it.


----------



## Mckeever

Life B Ez said:


> Really? I said he didn't shake his hand because he doesn't respect him? Even though in the last couple of posts all I did was say I was shocked he didn't because he's such a class act?
> 
> 
> Exactly what I said......just show the man some respect. I was honestly shocked Lyoto didn't because he is such a classy guy, but that is the like the fifth time I've said that and you can't get it through your thick skull, maybe you need your eyes checked.
> 
> ^^
> There's some trolling for you, because I know you so badly wanted it.


You are the dumbest person on the internet.


----------



## Life B Ez

Mckeever said:


> You are the dumbest person on the internet.


Who's the troll?


----------



## BobbyCooper

Jesus Life can you stop now? Are you really that immature and ignorant? Just let it go now and stop posting all your disrespect you have for Lyoto in the Machida threads please. It's just embarrassing from now on..


----------



## Life B Ez

BobbyCooper said:


> Jesus Life can you stop now? Are you really that immature and ignorant? Just let it go now and stop posting all your disrespect you have for Lyoto in the Machida threads please. It's just embarrassing from now on..


Hahah, gotta love sore losers......I'm done trying to be levelheaded and not just troll like all the guys on the funny pics threads, people don't like their favorite fighter losing.....shit happens.

I even tried to defend some Machida fans and say they weren't all that bad, guess I was way off with that, your fanboy love is embarrassing Bobby..


----------



## coldcall420

Life B Ez said:


> Hahah, gotta love sore losers......I'm done trying to be levelheaded and not just troll like all the guys on the funny pics threads, people don't like their favorite fighter losing.....shit happens.
> 
> I even tried to defend some Machida fans and say they weren't all that bad, guess I was way off with that, your fanboy love is embarrassing Bobby..


 
WTF is your problem, one min I think I am talking to a cool dude then your rubbing shit in peoples faces, Bobby is providing insight to what happened every Machida (real fan) has given his Respect to Shogun including Bobby Cooper if your looking for him to kiss ass your gonna be waiting a while why dont yopu back off and quit talkin shit on every post, you were lookin to bait me into a nice long debate last night and I just logged off...

:thumbsdown:


----------



## Mckeever

bobby did you actually cry when Machida lost? Genuine question. If so that is pretty hardcore.


----------



## swpthleg

I'm asking politely that the snark levels get turned down, and the debate becomes a little more civil.


----------



## SUR1109

Devil_Bingo said:


> The first fight was close. The first round was close aswell, well i thought it was anyways. Untill Shogun KO'd him. Wanted Shogun to win both times congrats. Think there will be a rubber match here.


i agree i had lyoto winning the round imo til he got kod


----------



## jcal

swpthleg said:


> I'm asking politely that the snark levels get turned down, and the debate becomes a little more civil.


I here ya! The fights over. Machida lost,. It doesnt matter, everybody losses sometime, its how you deal with it. Im quite sure Lyoto will come back very strong and continue winning, why wouldnt he? Shit Shogun has what 4-5 losses? Does that make him less of a fighter? Would I have been really upset if Shogun lost? No I would have just been dissapointed that my fighter didnt win. I wouldnt cry, or want to kill myself! C-mon guys it gets a litte embarrassing.:confused05:
Even Lyoto wouldnt like to hear that stuff im sure.


----------



## Johnni G

Rua did great! Lyoto looked exhausted the whole fight.


----------



## SUR1109

Life B Ez said:


> Like I said, I don't think Machida was trying to disrespect Shogun I just thought he was going to shake his hand. That is the only reason that I asked why he didn't, because I fully expected him to, because of the class act that he is. Another reason I was shocked they didn't look like they were going to touch gloves at the start.


i think thats because they didnt under stand him lol they were lookin at the ref like wtf did he just say


----------



## steveo412

Life B Ez said:


> So Dan has hand speed and KO power? I love Dan Henderson, but I've never seen him throw a punch I didn't see coming. *Like I said Nate was the best mix that Silva has ever fought and Nate doesn't exactly have one punch KO power and don't use the Maia fight please.*
> None of those guys are serious strikers, Silva has not fought a real striker.


Haha the bolded part sounds so stupid. Nate doesnt have one punch KO power if you dont consider the fight where he one punched someone lol.


----------



## The Horticulturist

MAN! this fight is magical. I have been watching it over and over and over and over and over. That was a devastating knockout! And the happiness that he shows after winning, even how happy him and his translator were during the Rogan interview. ahhhhhhhh it's all just so good. You'd have to be a prick to dislike Machida, he is such a genuine guy. This night was all about Shogun and him taking back the respect that the fans took away from him over the last few years. My head could explode at people insulting him for coming in to fights injured. **** haters. 
Machida fans, Now you know how Rashad fans felt  But don't distress too long, because I'm pretty sure he is going to continue kill everybody else after this loss.


----------



## swpthleg

SJ said:


> MAN! this fight is magical. I have been watching it over and over and over and over and over. That was a devastating knockout! And the happiness that he shows after winning, even how happy him and his translator were during the Rogan interview. ahhhhhhhh it's all just so good. You'd have to be a prick to dislike Machida, he is such a genuine guy. This night was all about Shogun and him taking back the respect that the fans took away from him over the last few years. My head could explode at people insulting him for coming in to fights injured. **** haters.
> Machida fans, Now you know how Rashad fans felt  But don't distress too long, because I'm pretty sure he is going to continue kill everybody else after this loss.


Quoted for truth.


----------



## Diokhan

SUR1109 said:


> i agree i had lyoto winning the round imo til he got kod


Technically yes because of the 2 takedowns even though Machida couldn't do anything on the ground, but sadly thats how the scoring in ufc goes.
Standing Shogun was leading again though and overall had inflicted more damage, but simply from scoring perspective Lyoto was winning the round just because takedowns are valued too much even when they aren't followed by sub attemps or G&P.


----------



## Nomale

I thought Lyoto did well before the ko. A nice counter to the head early on, the reversal of Shoguns td attempt, good knees. But to say Machida merely "got caught" is an understatement imo. Even before the ko it was obvious to me he felt pressured and uncomfortable with Shogun's aggressive punches.


----------



## BobbyCooper

I still can not believe what happened to Lyoto..


----------



## Nomale

BobbyCooper said:


> I still can not believe what happened to Lyoto..


I hear you man.. It was ugly. 
I haven't been knocked out, well... just by a tree once, but remembering Bas Rutten saying people don't realise how long it can take to recover mentally from a ko.. has anyone heard anything from Machida after saturday?


----------



## Squirrelfighter

Life B Ez said:


> So it's okay that he didn't shake Shogun's hand? How about you show some maturity and agree that it's a show of respect to shake Shogun's hand and congratulate him.....if Machida is a class act, which I think he is, he should have. The main reason I'm shocked he didn't, Shogun shook his hand after the first fight, unless you have a serious injury, you should show the other fighter respect.


Are you dumb dude? Have you ever been in a situation where your senses leave you in a manner similar to being KOed? You don't think straight, your mind moves sluggishly and your basic motor functions are impaired. Perhaps a totally lucid Machida would have shook his hand. But Machida wasn't totally lucid. And your implications that a man brutally KOed is not a class act for not shaking the hand of the guy who knocked him out is asinine. 



Life B Ez said:


> Hahah, gotta love sore losers......I'm done trying to be levelheaded and not just troll like all the guys on the funny pics threads, people don't like their favorite fighter losing.....shit happens.
> 
> I even tried to defend some Machida fans and say they weren't all that bad, guess I was way off with that, your fanboy love is embarrassing Bobby..


You're on my F*ck You list for this. This is genuinely childish stuff, grow up. You make whats-his-nuts from earlier in this thread look like a mature intellectual gentleman. You sicken me pretty bad right now.


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> WTF is your problem, one min I think I am talking to a cool dude then your rubbing shit in peoples faces, Bobby is providing insight to what happened every Machida (real fan) has given his Respect to Shogun including Bobby Cooper if your looking for him to kiss ass your gonna be waiting a while why dont yopu back off and quit talkin shit on every post, you were lookin to bait me into a nice long debate last night and I just logged off...
> 
> :thumbsdown:



I tried to be cool with Bobby and told him all I did was try to defend Machida and hope he bounces back and he just kept telling me I was immature for wondering why Machida didn't shake hands with Shogun. So I gave him what he wanted, sorry CC, but I tried to levelheaded. And people gave me shit and grouped me in with all the other Machida haters, so I became a Machida hater. 

Still have respect for him and I hope he can recover and bounce back, just to see his talent back in the cage.


----------



## Nomale

I can't for the life of me get your obsession with the hand-shake (I'm a Shogun supporter btw).. :confused02: I mean there are recommendations that a guy that's been ko'd shouldn't even go to the bathroom alone. When your mind is struggling to remain conscious and regain orientation and basic memory functions back etc. etiquette isn't your top priority.


----------



## Life B Ez

Nomale said:


> I can't for the life of me get your obsession with the hand-shake (I'm a Shogun supporter btw).. :confused02: I mean there are recommendations that a guy that's been ko'd shouldn't even go to the bathroom alone. When your mind is struggling to remain conscious and regain orientation and basic memory functions back etc. etiquette isn't your top priority.


It really doesn't bother me at all, as I've said several times. I was just shocked that he didn't is all. Lyoto has always been such a classy fighter, I figured if anyone would shake hands after getting KO'd it would be him. People are acting like I'm saying he should have, I'm not, I just thought he was going to.


----------



## coldcall420

Life B Ez said:


> It really doesn't bother me at all, as I've said several times. I was just shocked that he didn't is all. Lyoto has always been such a classy fighter, I figured if anyone would shake hands after getting KO'd it would be him. People are acting like I'm saying he should have, I'm not, I just thought he was going to.


 
It seems to def have bothered you unless you haven't read the last 4 pages, and second they are all right, he was totally out of it, hell with that eye maybe he couldn't see Rua's hand but damn man let it go. 

Your gonna rub people when you call him out or his character into question and we all really know the type of guy that Machida is.

Side note, seriously i wonder about what has been woken up inside of Lyoto now, this is not something that someone like he will just digest and go next, there will be major analyzing and re dedication on what works for him and also what he will need to for a fighter that is immediately in your face......THAT...was what won Rua this fight, pressing the entire time......otherwise they are not light yr's apart, they have each won one and until the kaboom the 1st was lookin like the 1st in their original bout....


----------



## coldcall420

WhyHelloThere said:


> I don't want to come off as a dick..but do you know Lyoto personally ? He's never been beaten before so NO one knows how he will respond. It could destroy him mentally or make him stronger. UFC104 shouldve been his wake up call..which I think it was..looked like he trained hard. I just think Rua had his number. To say "they have each won one" sounds good but not when tons of people think you lost the match you won and you get Koed in the first round of the second one.


 
Not to be a dick......intresting???

I have followed Machida and his training for a long time to the casual fan sure it looked like he lost the first fight, well in fact he won it, 1,2.3.....this fight he was wining till he got caught, when i say he will be back stronger he will be back with less pressure a loss under his belt to finally not have to keep worrying when will come....a clear mind to fight again and refocus on what he has done his entire life, do i think he will change his lifestylke cuz he lost one fight to Rua???? No, I think he will alter his game and become more of an attacking fighter......yes i know him personally.


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> Not to be a dick......intresting???
> 
> I have followed Machida and his training for a long time to the casual fan sure it looked like he lost the first fight, well in fact he won it, 1,2.3.....this fight he was wining till he got caught, when i say he will be back stronger he will be back with less pressure a loss under his belt to finally not have to keep worrying when will come....a clear mind to fight again and refocus on what he has done his entire life, do i think he will change his lifestylke cuz he lost one fight to Rua???? No, I think he will alter his game and become more of an attacking fighter......yes i know him personally.


Got love for you CC, but I don't think he'll ever beat Shogun. I think Shogun just has his number, Rua is the perfect storm to beat Lyoto, a strong chin, speed, serious power, brutal kicks. I don't think many other people will beat him, if anyone else will beat him, but I don't think he can beat Shogun again.


----------



## coldcall420

Life B Ez said:


> Got love for you CC, but I don't think he'll ever beat Shogun. I think Shogun just has his number, Rua is the perfect storm to beat Lyoto, a strong chin, speed, serious power, brutal kicks. I don't think many other people will beat him, if anyone else will beat him, but I don't think he can beat Shogun again.


 
I'm glad there will be something for us to debate in the future!!!:thumbsup: I appreciate your opinion, for what it is....


----------



## kano666

Diokhan said:


> Technically yes because of the 2 takedowns even though Machida couldn't do anything on the ground, but sadly thats how the scoring in ufc goes.
> Standing Shogun was leading again though and overall had inflicted more damage, but simply from scoring perspective Lyoto was winning the round just because takedowns are valued too much even when they aren't followed by sub attemps or G&P.


I thought Machida's upper body takedowns were slick, but Shogun's pressure was relentless and Machida never got his rhythm going on his feet. He likes to settle in and fight a cerebral, tactical fight while he times his foe - kinda like Anderson Silva. Shogun came in looking for blood and didn't let Machida relax at all. I think that was key to the fight.

If you look way back on this thread you'll see my analysis of how Machida can change his gameplan to account for Shogun's leg kicks. I eat my words. Shogun's aggressive gameplan worked like a charm and he showed how dominant he can be. I'm stoked for Shogun v. Silva. C'mon Dana, make it happen!


----------



## Life B Ez

kano666 said:


> I thought Machida's upper body takedowns were slick, but Shogun's pressure was relentless and Machida never got his rhythm going on his feet. He likes to settle in and fight a cerebral, tactical fight while he times his foe - kinda like Anderson Silva. Shogun came in looking for blood and didn't let Machida relax at all. I think that was key to the fight.
> 
> If you look way back on this thread you'll see my analysis of how Machida can change his gameplan to account for Shogun's leg kicks. I eat my words. Shogun's aggressive gameplan worked like a charm and he showed how dominant he can be. I'm stoked for Shogun v. Silva. C'mon Dana, make it happen!


It's only going to happen if Shogun beats Page/Rashad and Silva gets by Sonnen. Which means it won't happen til 2011 and Silva will get a pass and not have to fight Vitor.


----------



## coldcall420

WhyHelloThere said:


> Well yes he did win the first fight..but it wasn't just casual fans that thought he lost the first fight. Unless dana white and other professional mma fighters are casuals:confused05:
> 
> He was winning the fight til he got caught? What scorecards did you see?


 
This is an old topic there were several fighters that came out and said that they didnt understand why people thought Machida shouldnt have won the fight, there were obv people that didnt, either way....who the f*ck cares about the last fight. Im not gonna convince a Shogun fan esp now that Lyoto won the 1st fight and frankly i have done it many times already, use the search feature on the top left of the page.....:thumbsup:


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> This is an old topic there were several fighters that came out and said that they didnt understand why people thought Machida shouldnt have won the fight, there were obv people that didnt, either way....who the f*ck cares about the last fight. Im not gonna convince a Shogun fan esp now that Lyoto won the 1st fight and frankly i have done it many times already, use the search feature on the top left of the page.....:thumbsup:


Can we please put the first fight to rest already? The best part of the second fight happening was that the first can now go away. The second was decisive, we know who won, stop talking about 104, please.....


----------



## machidaisgod

Lyoto is a legend you haters are nothing, props to Rua the only man to hurt Lyoto but I have never seen so many jerks so jealous of a real fighter that all they can do is live just for him to lose, he will be back, and you will be back...sorry but you are already living with your mom...


----------



## Life B Ez

machidaisgod said:


> Lyoto is a legend you haters are nothing, props to Rua the only man to hurt Lyoto but I have never seen so many jerks so jealous of a real fighter that all they can do is live just for him to lose, he will be back, and you will be back...sorry but you are already living with your mom...


And I always wondered why you had red rep........fanboy much?


----------



## coldcall420

coldcall420 said:


> This is an old topic there were several fighters that came out and said that they didnt understand why people thought Machida shouldnt have won the fight,* there were obv people that didnt, either way....who the f*ck cares about the last fight.* Im not gonna convince a Shogun fan esp now that Lyoto won the 1st fight and frankly i have done it many times already, use the search feature on the top left of the page.....:thumbsup:





Life B Ez said:


> Can we please put the first fight to rest already? The best part of the second fight happening was that the first can now go away. The second was decisive, we know who won, stop talking about 104, please.....


Do you read my posts before you quote them, really what was your point in sending me a Pm when no all your doing is trying to provocate??? Seriously i just said on the last post lets not talk about 104...its bold in case you missed it....:sarcastic12:

Seriously Life.......


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> Do you read my posts before you quote them, really what was your point in sending me a Pm when no all your doing is trying to provocate??? Seriously i just said on the last post lets not talk about 104...its bold in case you missed it....:sarcastic12:
> 
> Seriously Life.......


I wasn't really directing that at you, just quoted you because you were the last one to say something, it was more at WhyHelloThere.


----------



## coldcall420

Life B Ez said:


> I wasn't really directing that at you, just quoted you because you were the last one to say something, it was more at WhyHelloThere.


Really you quoted me....direct it at who you intend then.....look down at the mod on the thread....


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> Really you quoted me....direct it at who you intend then.....look down at the mod on the thread....


Wow.....just wow.......you were both talking about the first fight........you may have said who cares, but you did bring it up.


----------



## coldcall420

Life B Ez said:


> I wasn't really directing that at you, just quoted you because you were the last one to say something, it was more at WhyHelloThere.





Life B Ez said:


> Wow.....just wow.......you were both talking about the first fight........you may have said who cares, but you did bring it up.


 
So then your above statement was bullshit, which one just so I know, troll much dude.....This was stimulating but I'm done with this thread go ahead and do your annoying troll crap now!!!


Your not that smart dude.....:thumbsdown:


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> So then your above statement was bullshit, which one just so I know, troll much dude.....This was stimulating but I'm done with this thread go ahead and do your annoying troll crap now!!!
> 
> 
> Your not that smart dude.....:thumbsdown:


I was really directing it at the other guy, but you give me shit about who I quoted, so I just told the truth. You're the one trolling son........

I love all these Machida fans that I thought would deal with him losing well. Sore f*cking losers.....it's a damn shame.


----------



## steveo412

Why does it matter if some people think Machida was winning or shogun was winning before the KO. Nothing substancial had really happened it was like dead even. Machida had the TDs and Shogun had landed more effective strikes but neither was really ahead, then Shogun knocked him out. 

Nobody really won the first fight either thats why they had the auto rematch cause the first didnt solve anything. You can say oh Lyoto got the W but when 70-80% of polls think Shogun won the fight that W is tainted. The first fight should be deleted from everyones minds.


----------



## Life B Ez

steveo412 said:


> Why does it matter if some people think Machida was winning or shogun was winning before the KO. Nothing substancial had really happened it was like dead even. Machida had the TDs and Shogun had landed more effective strikes but neither was really ahead, then Shogun knocked him out.
> 
> Nobody really won the first fight either thats why they had the auto rematch cause the first didnt solve anything. You can say oh Lyoto got the W but when 70-80% of polls think Shogun won the fight that W is tainted. The first fight should be deleted from everyones minds.


Thanks you, exactly what I was trying to say, haha. You just said it better


----------



## kano666

Life B Ez said:


> It's only going to happen if Shogun beats Page/Rashad and Silva gets by Sonnen. Which means it won't happen til 2011 and Silva will get a pass and not have to fight Vitor.


I can wait.

For the record, I think:
- Page beats Rashad
- Shogun beats Page or Rashad
- Silva beats Sonnen (unless it's the most boring fight ever)
- Silva vs Vitor is less exciting than Silva vs Shogun
- No idea who'd win out of Silva and Shogun, it would be a barnstormer for sure!


----------



## Joabbuac

evilstevie said:


> Good God I hope thad never happens. Griffin is horrbile. Re-watch him vs. A Silva and you'll agree. He doesn't deserve Shogun.


Yea so horrible and undeserving that he beat Rua first time out :thumbsup:


Silva and Rua are two different fighters...Griffin has fought many top fighters one after the other even fought and beat some of the guys people want to see Rua fight. Griffin Beats little nog and one other contender and i would have no arguments with Rua getting some redemption.


----------



## Life B Ez

Joabbuac said:


> Yea so horrible and undeserving that he beat Rua first time out :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Silva and Rua are two different fighters...Griffin has fought many top fighters one after the other even fought and beat some of the guys people want to see Rua fight. Griffin Beats little nog and one other contender and i would have no arguments with Rua getting some redemption.


Shogun was in no condition to be in the cage the first time around. Forrest should fight Lyoto, winner gets the winner of Shogun vs Page/Evans winner, for the title.


----------



## Joabbuac

Life B Ez said:


> Shogun was in no condition to be in the cage the first time around.



Exactly why he should get the rematch :laugh:


----------



## Soojooko

I haven't really commented on the fight up to now. It was a shock seeing Lyoto wiped out like that. Difficult to watch. It always is with any fighter ( except Koscheck and Hughes ) but when its a favorite... it hurts.​ 
I'm over it now and can be honest about what I saw without all the emotion.​ 
What I saw was what looked to me a weird Lyoto. Something about him wasn't right. He had no confidence about him. To be honest... he looked scared. Everything felt desperate. The knees. The takedowns. Once on top of Shogun he looked like he was clinging on for dear life rather than looking to GnP.​ 
Horrible thing to say, but thats how it looked to me. In my opinion Machida biggest hurdle in beating Rua is mental. Shogun scares him i think. Hurt him bad. If he can recover from this, Ive absolutely no doubts Machida will come back a complete fighter. *IF* he can recover.​ 


Now that Ive got over it, I am started to get quite excited about the shake-up in the LHW division. Looks like Couture might get what he asked for last year and get a fight with Lyoto now.​ 
One door closes and lots more open. Always a good thing.​


----------



## streetpunk08

Soojooko said:


> I haven't really commented on the fight up to now. It was a shock seeing Lyoto wiped out like that. Difficult to watch. It always is with any fighter ( except Koscheck and Hughes ) but when its a favorite... it hurts.​
> I'm over it now and can be honest about what I saw without all the emotion.​
> What I saw was what looked to me a weird Lyoto. Something about him wasn't right. He had no confidence about him. To be honest... he looked scared. Everything felt desperate. The knees. The takedowns. Once on top of Shogun he looked like he was clinging on for dear life rather than looking to GnP.​
> Horrible thing to say, but thats how it looked to me. In my opinion Machida biggest hurdle in beating Rua is mental. Shogun scares him i think. Hurt him bad. If he can recover from this, Ive absolutely no doubts Machida will come back a complete fighter. *IF* he can recover.​
> 
> 
> Now that Ive got over it, I am started to get quite excited about the shake-up in the LHW division. Looks like Couture might get what he asked for last year and get a fight with Lyoto now.​
> One door closes and lots more open. Always a good thing.​


I agree with alot of your assessments. I was rooting for Shogun but after about halfway through the round it seemed to me that Lyoto was gunshy and did not look confident at all. I think it's fairly accurate to say that in the 1st fight Lyoto got hit alot more and alot harder than all of his previous UFC fights combined. When you have a guy whose not used to getting hit and he gets tagged early and often, it effects them. I'm a big Mike Tyson fan and prior to the Buster Douglas fight he did not take alot of damage nor did he get hit with too many solid punches. Granted he had alot of personal and mental issues but still, Buster hit him alot and KO'd him and he was never quite the same. You are correct about Lyoto's top game too, he never even tried to posture up and throw punches or elbows, I think he threw maybe 2 but that's about it. Not to mention his opponent had all the motivation in the world and was extremely determined to not only win but make a statement.

I will be very interested to see how Lyoto reacts to this loss and how he comes out in his next fight. He was constantly having to defend the decision in the 1st fight and then he gets KO'd in the 1st round of the rematch, that has the potential to really screw with a fighter's head.


----------



## CornBall

wow i so happy tha sho tha mo gunz iz tha new champ!!! 

it waz a gud fight fo sho tho...


----------



## Mckeever

streetpunk08 said:


> I agree with alot of your assessments. I was rooting for Shogun but after about halfway through the round it seemed to me that Lyoto was gunshy and did not look confident at all. I think it's fairly accurate to say that in the 1st fight Lyoto got hit alot more and alot harder than all of his previous UFC fights combined. When you have a guy whose not used to getting hit and he gets tagged early and often, it effects them. I'm a big Mike Tyson fan and prior to the Buster Douglas fight he did not take alot of damage nor did he get hit with too many solid punches. Granted he had alot of personal and mental issues but still, Buster hit him alot and KO'd him and he was never quite the same. You are correct about Lyoto's top game too, he never even tried to posture up and throw punches or elbows, I think he threw maybe 2 but that's about it. Not to mention his opponent had all the motivation in the world and was extremely determined to not only win but make a statement.
> 
> I will be very interested to see how Lyoto reacts to this loss and how he comes out in his next fight. He was constantly having to defend the decision in the 1st fight and then he gets KO'd in the 1st round of the rematch, that has the potential to really screw with a fighter's head.


Yea, we will definitely find out how mentally tough Lyoto is after this loss. Winning a very controversial decision firs time round and then getting KO'd badly would probably break most fighters. I hope he recovers mentally.


----------



## Life B Ez

Mckeever said:


> Yea, we will definitely find out how mentally tough Lyoto is after this loss. Winning a very controversial decision firs time round and then getting KO'd badly would probably break most fighters. I hope he recovers mentally.


I don't think he'll have a problem getting back in with anyone else. I think he's going to have a hard time standing across from Shogun again, mentally speaking that is. 

If you think about it from Lyoto's view, he was hardly hit and never really damaged in 15 pro fights, then he fights Shogun and gets beat up in the first fight, gets the decision then gets brutally KO'd by the same man. It just seems like it would be hard to for Machida to fight Shogun again.

But I'm with you that I hope he can bounce back, he's way too talented for anyone to do anything but hope he can get back and fight well again.


----------



## Mckeever

Life B Ez said:


> I don't think he'll have a problem getting back in with anyone else. I think he's going to have a hard time standing across from Shogun again, mentally speaking that is.
> 
> If you think about it from Lyoto's view, he was hardly hit and never really damaged in 15 pro fights, then he fights Shogun and gets beat up in the first fight, gets the decision then gets brutally KO'd by the same man. It just seems like it would be hard to for Machida to fight Shogun again.
> 
> But I'm with you that I hope he can bounce back, he's way too talented for anyone to do anything but hope he can get back and fight well again.


Yea true. Its facing shogun again which is going to be his biggest mental obstacle. I still think that Machida wont have many problems with other fighters in the division, especially wrestlers like baeder and evans. Machida has some pretty legendary take down defense and on top of that he also has excellent sweeps and throws. I think he would have problems with Rampage and lil nog, infact i'd choose lil nog to beat Machida.


----------



## streetpunk08

Mckeever said:


> Yea, we will definitely find out how mentally tough Lyoto is after this loss. Winning a very controversial decision firs time round and then getting KO'd badly would probably break most fighters. I hope he recovers mentally.


Not just break most fighters, but faced with the outcome and criticism break most athletes in general. The all-time great athletes across the various sports become all-time greats because of how they deal with adversity and overcome it to become stronger. If Lyoto is as mentally tough and as great a fighter as alot of us (even Shogun supporters as myself) think he is or think he has the potential to one day become than this will only make him better if he doesn't let it destroy him. Now we will see what Lyoto is really made of and imo can potentially be the best thing for him.


----------



## CornBall

Do you really think it's cool to talk like that?? It's not even readable for f**ks sake. Phew.. 

^^^^

who say tha??? itz cool tho.... let u nam be knonw so i could giv u gud reps.. cause i dont hate lik u.. i super cool n i sho luv...

edit..

how do i deltee thiz post?? don mean to brek rulez.. srry modz...


----------



## SM33

It was a bad situation for Lyoto, he simply HAD to alter certain aspects of his game after the first fight, but a rematch to prove your worth as Champion isn't a good time to change things as crucial to his game as his stance, for example. Regardless, he still looked [for lack of a better word] scared. Or desperate, like Soojooko said.


----------



## Life B Ez

SM33 said:


> It was a bad situation for Lyoto, he simply HAD to alter certain aspects of his game after the first fight, but a rematch to prove your worth as Champion isn't a good time to change . Regardless, he still looked [for lack of a better word] scared. Or desperate, like Soojooko said.


I actually think he made a mistake in trying to be more aggressive. Attacking and getting into an all out brawl with any of the guys from Chute Boxe is just stupid, they live to brawl. He should have worked more on his movement and been more defensive, granted not entertaining and he wasn't going to finish the fight that way, but he would have probably won. And if you're going to take a guy down, you need to do something, Lyoto got two take downs and just hung on for dear life and wait for Shogun to sweep him. Granted I think the second one was because he was rocked and was trying to recover, but the first one looked like he was literally laying and praying.


----------



## coldcall420

SM33 said:


> It was a bad situation for Lyoto, he simply HAD to alter certain aspects of his game after the first fight, but a rematch to prove your worth as Champion isn't a good time to change things as crucial to his game as his stance, for example. Regardless, he still looked [for lack of a better word] scared. Or desperate, like Soojooko said.


 
I agree with this he never got off like he wanted....he looked like he was not focused way earlier to the fight, either way SM has raised an issue that i saw immediatley as well, I didnt like Lyoto standing in traditional stance against Shogun and think it serves him better to fight from Southpaw against Shogun......before people say it yes...that would expose the mid section to those right body kicks from Rua, but circling to the right would counter that.....this is only one small thing i noticed....lastly I would say I want Lyoto to fight Rampage....why??? Becuase I want Lyoto to face attackers, DAM I wish Wandy was what he used to be, Lyoto is going to need to be able to bring that same aggression and also fight it off, he can do this, he will have to make changes to his approach in order to have success with it though...

Good post SM33....:thumbsup:


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> I agree with this he never got off like he wanted....he looked like he was not focused way earlier to the fight, either way SM has raised an issue that i saw immediatley as well, I didnt like Lyoto standing in traditional stance against Shogun and think it serves him better to fight from Southpaw against Shogun......before people say it yes...that would expose the mid section to those right body kicks from Rua, but circling to the right would counter that.....this is only one small thing i noticed....lastly I would say I want Lyoto to fight Rampage....why??? Becuase I want Lyoto to face attackers, DAM I wish Wandy was what he used to be, Lyoto is going to need to be able to bring that same aggression and also fight it off, he can do this, he will have to make changes to his approach in order to have success with it though...
> 
> Good post SM33....:thumbsup:


I really think Machida needs to do the opposite, I don't know if he has the chin to brawl with guys at LHW. I think he should become even more defensive. Getting into brawls with guys is taking away what made him so good in the first place. IMO, he should become a pure counter puncher, maybe start using his ground game. I don't think it's a good idea to try to exchange, because you can just get clipped and then he's got another KO loss. 

I'm questions Lyoto's chin a little, because we'd never really seen him get hit and Shogun caught him with a falling away right before the second take down that really stumbled Machida. To the point he was feeling for the fence. This may just be that Shogun is that powerful, but Machida didn't get hit with a whole lot to be put out cold like that. He got caught over his ear and went down, then got put out with one punch from the mount that got him above his right eye. There were obviously some punches in between but nothing really clean. It was one punch that put the lights out right after Machida tried to bring Rua posture down. It's possible Shogun is just that powerful, he did KO Chuck with basically a jumping left thumb slap.


----------



## coldcall420

Lyoto is a counter fighter, he needs to be able to handle a mad onslaught....not dance away from it if it wont work against Rua and the long legs, eitherway Shogun closed the distance this time and brought it, Machida needs to be able to mix it up in that range, his chin is fine, he was k/o'd with a shot to the temple....


Rashad had a chin like a rock till Lyoto fought him so that crap carries no water with me, you get caught you get caught......there is no science to it...


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> Lyoto is a counter fighter, he needs to be able to handle a mad onslaught....not dance away from it if it wont work against Rua and the long legs, eitherway Shogun closed the distance this time and brought it, Machida needs to be able to mix it up in that range, his chin is fine, he was k/o'd with a shot to the temple....


Shogun just has his number, no one else can use the same game plan Shogun used and make it work.


----------



## M.C

I don't think Lyoto can knock Shogun out. I think Shogun knows Lyoto can't knock him out, which is why he was so aggressive. He was just going out there, put on the pace, take whatever Machida has and get the finish.

I had Machida winning this fight via decision, cause after their first fight, and thinking about Shogun's past, man, that guy is like Penn, he just doesn't get rocked, doesn't get hurt, he's a machine. I think that played a lot in their second fight. I think Shogun felt all of Machida's power in the first, and realized he won't get too hurt, and just went in there and went beast mode and went for the finish, and got it.

As for Machida's chin, I think his chin is good. He got hit pretty solid in the Rashad fight, 3 right hooks in a row and didn't even show a sign of pain, and he took some hard shots from Shogun in the first fight, and didn't really come close to being knocked out. I think Shogun hit him right on the temple, or above the ear, and it hurt him, and Shogun's very solid GnP finished him off.

Machida should get back to being a bit more defensive. He's been getting more and more aggressive, and in that fight it showed that he leaves holes open when he gets aggressive. He needs to start playing with his takedowns/ground game more, and when standing, being defensive and being the defensive counter striker he was before he fought Rashad. He's at his best when he's countering, and not going in often, but waiting for the right moment.

EDIT - Keep in mind, against the majority of LHW fighters, Machida could keep this exact style and change nothing and come out on top, it's just if he's going to change his style, it needs to be for the defensive/ground game, rather than being more aggressive.


----------



## steveo412

I think Lyoto thought to much about a gameplan before the fight trying to find a way to stop the kicks of shogun by changing his stance, but really Shogun doesnt exactly have a certain gameplan for each figther he faces, he just fights the way he always fights aggressive and pushes forward. He didnt solve the myth of Machidas elusiveness or whatever he just fought textbook shogun style and that is a bad match for Machida.


----------



## SM33

There aren't any other kickers of Shogun's caliber in the division, off the top of my head, so other fighters will try chopping Machida down ala Shogun, and it won't be anywhere near as effective.

I'd advise Machida to go back to his old tactics for everyone except Shogun. I wouldn't advise him to start brawling, I've found Lyoto's chin to be quite random so far and there are a few big hitters in the division. Even if he did have a solid chin, he doesn't seem to enjoy the chaos anyway.

Lyoto is still the dangerous counter-puncher he always was, but he's gonna get a lot of people in his face chasing him round the octagon, taking the risk, thanks to Shogun.


----------



## coldcall420

Life B Ez said:


> Shogun just has his number, no one else can use the same game plan Shogun used and make it work.


 
Why cuz he knocked him out once when catching him and lost his first fight with Machida......Sure!!

We can agree to disagree......


----------



## HitOrGetHit

coldcall420 said:


> Why cuz he knocked him out once when catching him and lost his first fight with Machida......Sure!!
> 
> We can agree to disagree......


And here comes the replies about how Shogun "won" the first fight.


----------



## coldcall420

HitOrGetHit said:


> And here comes the replies about how Shogun "won" the first fight.


 
I've said m piece the turncoats and hater's can hate all they want, most people a loss does them good makes them refocus and come back stronger, we train, we know this....I have no doubt....:thumbsup:

HOGH


EDIT: hope you remember the meaning behind that HOGH....


----------



## rezin

coldcall420 said:


> I've said m piece the turncoats and hater's can hate all they want, *most people a loss does them good makes them refocus and come back stronger*, we train, we know this....I have no doubt....:thumbsup:
> 
> HOGH
> 
> 
> EDIT: hope you remember the meaning behind that HOGH....


More times than not this is true however it isnt always the case. I think the best example was Arlovski who was a beast until he got ko'd by Sylvia and never looked as good. He has shown brilliance but not to the same level as before.

Also, and this might just be me since I respect Machida but am not a big fan of his, but he looked scared for the first time stepping into the octagon. I really think all the damage in the first fight he took really got to him and adding this massive knockout cant be good for the psyche.

I wont argue on who won the first fight, but I do think you will agree that Machida was pretty wrecked once the final bell hit in their first fight. I am curious if he will go AA on us and be good just not great out of fear of getting hurt again.


----------



## coldcall420

Do you know the people who think what you were writing above are???


Not Machida fans, the dude lost...once.....he will be back, I have already stated I thought he didn't look himself, he has all the time in the world now to fix that, to think, rather not expect these two wouldn't fight a 3rd time is really funny to me, these 2 are way......way ahead of the rest of the 205 pd Div.....


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> Why cuz he knocked him out once when catching him and lost his first fight with Machida......Sure!!
> 
> We can agree to disagree......


No one hardly touched Machida in 15 fights, then Shogun beat him up twice, win or lose he beat him up. No one else has been able to do that...and Shogun did it twice, and rather easily. That's why I say he has his number......


----------



## coldcall420

Shogun beat him up once, you act like Shogun walked out that first fight fine, he didnt.....then he caught Machida, you can dress shit up all you want but the fact remains they are 1-1 and they will fight again....

Anyway, like I said we dont agree so you do your thing(which will certainly be some kind of follow up post....trolling) and I'll do mine....I dont seem to be able to post on this thread without you getting all excited at the possibility to tell me I'm wrong, your going to be here a while then....half of my posts are not directed at you and frankly I'd rather not hear what you think......over and over....:thumbsup:


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> Shogun beat him up once, you act like Shogun walked out that first fight fine, he didnt.....then he caught Machida, you can dress shit up all you want but the fact remains they are 1-1 and they will fight again....
> 
> Anyway, like I said we dont agree so you do your thing(which will certainly be some kind of follow up post....trolling) and I'll do mine....I dont seem to be able to post on this thread without you getting all excited at the possibility to tell me I'm wrong, your going to be here a while then....half of my posts are not directed at you and frankly I'd rather not hear what you think......over and over....:thumbsup:


HAHA, wow CC, nice try to get me to not respond, because I'm clearly the one that's getting "excited" hahaha.

Shogun didn't walk out the first fight fine? I mean he may have been a little tired, but I don't think it was him that was cut and could hardly walk. They are 1-1, but as Forrest Griffin has said, you can get beat up and still win. If you don't think Lyoto took a beating in the first fight you're even more of a fanboy then I'm giving you credit for.


----------



## coldcall420

*Trolling......Your Pm's to me......Lulz...*



> Hey man,
> 
> I had nothing but give Machida respect and say I hope he can recover mentally and get back to fighting. Then Bobby and Mckeever started going off about how stupid and immature I was and even then I tried to explain my side, but the fanboy behavior was getting out of control, so I stopped trying to discuss things and hated in Machida.
> 
> As you know from all our discussion before this fight, I have a lot of respect for Machida and if he hadn't been fighting Shogun I would have been pulling for him.
> 
> I'm hoping you don't start giving me shit too, because then I'm going to end up like all the other jaded Karate Kid fan haters.


 



> Haha, yeah pretty much sums it up. He looked scared to be in there with Rua.
> 
> I'm glad you can stay levelheaded about it, because it's really gotten crazy. People who are normally very mature and have intelligent conversations are going off and pretty much throwing fits. It's painful to watch your favorite fighter lose, but it happens. I did just have to watch Henderson get dominated for five rounds by a guy he was supposed to crush, so I can feel for you a little, hahaha.


 

Thats about all I need to say.......


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> Thats about all I need to say.......


Yeah, I've been showing the guy respect.....it's you I'm starting to think doesn't deserve any.......all this because I Machida lost and I'm not as sad as you......it's too early for this.

When you explain how I'm trolling, I'll try to discuss that, because you're pretty much the one trolling at this point, it's sad, I thought you were above fanboy behavior.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Both fighters had a lot of bruises and scratches after the first fight. Both fighters were exhausted after one of the most competitive fights in the history of this Sport. Lyoto wasn't the only one! Shogun might have looked a little bit more fresh.. but by no means like you are trying to make it out.

In the second fight, Lyoto got caught as simple as that. Lyoto throw one of his most famous straight left hands in that exchange and missed only barely Shoguns head. The fight could have gone either way in that exchange, but this time Shogun connected and Lyoto unfortunetly didn't.. Shogun has more power in his hands, wich won him this fight. 

Here guys, that was the straight left from Lyoto wich didn't connected.. instead Shogun landed his overhand right, right on the temple Lyoto's.. 

you can see how fast Lyoto is with this punch, even in slow motion!










You can see, it's so close between these two great fighters. If Lyoto landed his left hand, the fight could have gone totally different. I know that Shogun has an iron chin, but still if you connect right, everybody can go down or see black! 

Lyoto did landed the exact same left hand perfectely very early in the fight. I searched everywhere, but I can find a gif of the punch. Still can't believe Shogun didn't fought a little more defensive after he took that punch!

here you can see the exact same punch rocked Rashad..










and here..










Lyoto leaves himslef open when he throws that punch.. but his left hand is so lightning fast, that it is a miracle for me how lucky Shogun was in that situaton. Yes he countered nicely and his head movement was great, but still in an exchange everything can happen.. and this time unfortunetly, Lyoto came out second.











Lyoto changed to much for this fight and was in my eyes way to aggressive! In the 3 fight, he needs to get back to his roots. But he should always use his amazing Takedowns against Shogun.










The only thing he needs to improve, is his GnP and top control. Lyoto didn't knew what he should do on top of Shogun.. but he can fix that hole easily for the next fight I believe. His Takedowns aren't stoppable for Shogun! 

Like CC mentioned earlier, Lyoto didn't looked himself that night. He wasn't the elusive Champion we all know. He looked lazy for me and a little idle.. Something was wrong with him thats no secret!

Can't wait to see the third fight!


----------



## Life B Ez

That's a hell of a break down Bobby, haha. I remember Shogun saying he seen that opening watching Lyoto's fights. Something along the lines of Lyoto not keeping his hands up when he throws and bounces in and out. I remember when Lyoto landed it early in the fight too, it was the punch before Shogun reached his arms out and rolled his shoulders. Happened after they broke off the clinch against the cage. I think Shogun caught him on that punch because when Lyoto has caught other guys with it, it's a counter. When he threw it at Shogun it wasn't and Shogun countered over the top.

But I'm with you, ready for him to get healthy and get back in the cage. Still curious who he's going to fight, if it will be Forrest or the loser of Page/Rashad. I can't see the UFC wants to see Machida/Evans 2, but you never know.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Thanks Ez. I wanted to put a lot more into it, but I had to pick up my sister from the train station.. so I just Submit the post.

Exactly Lyoto hit him perfectely, but Shogun didn't even flinched. Normally like you said, he counters with exactly this shot. But this time, he was the aggressor and got caught. Still can't believe, he missed Shogun's head this much.

Maybe they even make a matchup between Lyoto and the winner of Liddell/Franklin.. could be possible. If Rashad loses, I really don't wanna see him fight Lyoto again that early.


----------



## steveo412

BobbyCooper said:


> In the second fight, Lyoto got caught as simple as that. Lyoto throw one of his most famous straight left hands in that exchange and missed only barely Shoguns head. The fight could have gone either way in that exchange, but this time Shogun connected and Lyoto unfortunetly didn't.. Shogun has more power in his hands, wich won him this fight.
> 
> Here guys, that was the straight left from Lyoto wich didn't connected.. instead Shogun landed his overhand right, right on the temple Lyoto's..
> 
> you can see how fast Lyoto is with this punch, even in slow motion!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see, it's so close between these two great fighters. If Lyoto landed his left hand, the fight could have gone totally different. I know that Shogun has an iron chin, but still if you connect right, everybody can go down or see black!


Man I dont think your thinking about this the right way. Shogun read Lyotos punch perfectly dodged it and countered, This is in no way just a time where two guys just through punches and whoever landed was going to win. Lyoto was dodged and countered perfectly thats all it was. This was in no way a lucky punch or just bad luck for Lyoto that he missed, he was simply dodged countered and KO'd.


----------



## Mckeever

coldcall420 said:


> Thats about all I need to say.......


Just for the record life be ez, im a shogun fan and not a machida fan. I was merely responding to your retarded comments about Machida showing a lack of respect to rua for not shaking his hand after he got knocked out cold. Hope thats clear.


----------



## BobbyCooper

steveo412 said:


> Man I dont think your thinking about this the right way. Shogun read Lyotos punch perfectly dodged it and countered, This is in no way just a time where two guys just through punches and whoever landed was going to win. Lyoto was dodged and countered perfectly thats all it was. This was in no way a lucky punch or just bad luck for Lyoto that he missed, he was simply dodged countered and KO'd.


mmhh thats tough to say.. I'm not a fighter, so I guess I can't really tell. But for me it looks like, that Lyoto is about to throw his left hand at the exact same moment, Shogun is also trying to catch Lyoto with the overhand right. Because Shogun needs some force in his punch he turns his body and HEAD into the way his punch comes down. Guess just like everybody would throw an overhand right. And because of the body and head movement, wich he needed to get force into the punch Lyoto missed his left hand barely! He got countered yes, but it's still only an exchange of hands, where only one guy connects and the other doesn't.


----------



## SM33

> Shogun read Lyotos punch perfectly dodged it and countered, This is in no way just a time where two guys just through punches and whoever landed was going to win. Lyoto was dodged and countered perfectly thats all it was. This was in no way a lucky punch or just bad luck or Lyoto that he missed, he was simply dodged countered and KO'd.


Took the words out of my mouth. Don't wana start an argument with Bobby, but

1. Shogun slipped to the inside of Lyoto's left straight, it was nothing to do with luck.

2. The reason Shogun didn't turn defensive after Lyoto landed that left earlier in the fight is because, obviously, it didn't hurt him. You can't watch someone get punched and judge whether they should become more defensive or not, because you don't know if it hurt them or not.

It wasn't an exchange in which someone was going to get lucky, it was a perfect and fatal counter. And saying that Shogun winning is thanks only to his power is f**kin ridiculous.


----------



## The Horticulturist

Bobby, in this case, I think it is best to just have patience and see what happens. He lost very decisively this time around. Hopefully he will come back and wreck everyone, but no one can really make an informed opinion on that subject either, only Lyoto can know how he really feels after this loss.


----------



## Life B Ez

Mckeever said:


> Just for the record life be ez, im a shogun fan and not a machida fan. I was merely responding to your retarded comments about Machida showing a lack of respect to rua for not shaking his hand after he got knocked out cold. Hope thats clear.


I never thought Machida was showing disrespecting Shogun, obviously I know why he didn't shake his hand. I was just genuinely shocked that he didn't. Machida is such a class act, that I thought he was going to shake his hand and I thought it would be a cool moment for the sport, to see these two guys shake hands after the controversy with the first fight, to see that neither guy held anything against the other would have been really cool.


> mmhh thats tough to say.. I'm not a fighter, so I guess I can't really tell. But for me it looks like, that Lyoto is about to throw his left hand at the exact same moment, Shogun is also trying to catch Lyoto with the overhand right. Because Shogun needs some force in his punch he turns his body and HEAD into the way his punch comes down. Guess just like everybody would throw an overhand right. And because of the body and head movement, wich he needed to get force into the punch Lyoto missed his left hand barely! He got countered yes, but it's still only an exchange of hands, where only one guy connects and the other doesn't.


Sorry to tell you Bobby, you broke it down great, but it wasn't just luck that Shogun didn't get hit. If you watch the flurry before that KO, Machida darts in and throws a knee, bounces back out sets, measures Shogun and darts back in to the throw the left. Shogun times him and throws that right over the top. He talked about it in the post fighter press conference, that he had seen Lyoto left his guard down when he attacked in the first fight. That is why Shogun kept walking through Lyoto's first punches and throwing, when Machida moves his hands drop, which is why he got rocked before the second takedown too. When he starts moving side to side and when he comes in to attack his hands drop and Shogun is just way too powerful to drop your hands against him.


----------



## swpthleg

No..........more.............insulting other members. This is getting ridiculous.


----------



## Life B Ez

swpthleg said:


> No..........more.............insulting other members. This is getting ridiculous.


Hahaha, I was wondering when a mod was going to stumble in here and say that.


----------



## swpthleg

I've actually been watching this thread, as I'm sure other staff has.


----------



## Life B Ez

It's been a little bit like civil war in here......friends fighting friends, family against family...war is hell I guess haha.


----------



## coldcall420

Life B Ez said:


> It's been a little bit like civil war in here......friends fighting friends, family against family...war is hell I guess haha.


I wouldnt call it that....but nice spin either way


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> I wouldnt call it that....but nice spin either way


It was kind of a joke, lose your sense of humor too now?


----------



## K R Y

Give it a fricken rest -.-


----------



## BobbyCooper

SM33 said:


> Took the words out of my mouth. Don't wana start an argument with Bobby, but
> 
> 1. Shogun slipped to the inside of Lyoto's left straight, it was nothing to do with luck.
> 
> 2. The reason Shogun didn't turn defensive after Lyoto landed that left earlier in the fight is because, obviously, it didn't hurt him. You can't watch someone get punched and judge whether they should become more defensive or not, because you don't know if it hurt them or not.
> 
> It wasn't an exchange in which someone was going to get lucky, it was a perfect and fatal counter. *And saying that Shogun winning is thanks only to his power is f**kin ridiculous.*


How is that ridiculous??:confused02: If Lyoto had the same power in his left hand then Shogun has in his right hand, the fight would have been Lyoto's after only 1 minute of fighting! Lyoto catched Shogun as clean as it get's, with his left hand.. See how Shogun's head bounces?!

And this shot was right on the temple!!! Every human being goes down in this situation except one guy.. I know it's frustrating. But give Lyoto Shogun's power and the fight goes out differentely!!! 

I found the gif where Lyoto catches him clean.. Rashad see below could not handle this shot. Even though Lyoto was hitting Rashad straight, same as in the Sam Hoger fight! Hoger just shook it off as did Shogun.












BobbyCooper said:


> Both fighters had a lot of bruises and scratches after the first fight. Both fighters were exhausted after one of the most competitive fights in the history of this Sport. Lyoto wasn't the only one! Shogun might have looked a little bit more fresh.. but by no means like you are trying to make it out.
> 
> In the second fight, Lyoto got caught as simple as that. Lyoto throw one of his most famous straight left hands in that exchange and missed only barely Shoguns head. The fight could have gone either way in that exchange, but this time Shogun connected and Lyoto unfortunetly didn't.. Shogun has more power in his hands, wich won him this fight.
> 
> Here guys, that was the straight left from Lyoto wich didn't connected.. instead Shogun landed his overhand right, right on the temple Lyoto's..
> 
> you can see how fast Lyoto is with this punch, even in slow motion!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see, it's so close between these two great fighters. If Lyoto landed his left hand, the fight could have gone totally different. I know that Shogun has an iron chin, but still if you connect right, everybody can go down or see black!
> 
> Lyoto did landed the exact same left hand perfectely very early in the fight. I searched everywhere, but I can find a gif of the punch. Still can't believe Shogun didn't fought a little more defensive after he took that punch!
> 
> here you can see the exact same punch rocked Rashad..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and here..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lyoto leaves himslef open when he throws that punch.. but his left hand is so lightning fast, that it is a miracle for me how lucky Shogun was in that situaton. Yes he countered nicely and his head movement was great, but still in an exchange everything can happen.. and this time unfortunetly, Lyoto came out second.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lyoto changed to much for this fight and was in my eyes way to aggressive! In the 3 fight, he needs to get back to his roots. But he should always use his amazing Takedowns against Shogun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing he needs to improve, is his GnP and top control. Lyoto didn't knew what he should do on top of Shogun.. but he can fix that hole easily for the next fight I believe. His Takedowns aren't stoppable for Shogun!
> 
> Like CC mentioned earlier, Lyoto didn't looked himself that night. He wasn't the elusive Champion we all know. He looked lazy for me and a little idle.. Something was wrong with him thats no secret!
> 
> Can't wait to see the third fight!


----------



## steveo412

BobbyCooper said:


> How is that ridiculous??:confused02: If Lyoto had the same power in his left hand then Shogun has in his right hand, the fight would have been Lyoto's after only 1 minute of fighting! Lyoto catched Shogun as clean as it get's, with his left hand.. See how Shogun's head bounces?!
> 
> And this shot was right on the temple!!! Every human being goes down in this situation except one guy.. I know it's frustrating. But give Lyoto Shogun's power and the fight goes out differentely!!!
> 
> I found the gif where Lyoto catches him clean.. Rashad see below could not handle this shot. Even though Lyoto was hitting Rashad straight, same as in the Sam Hoger fight! Hoger just shook it off as did Shogun.


Cmon though Shogun perfectly dodged and countered that straight left and ended that fight, atleast give him that. leave the would haves and could haves out of this Lyoto is not going to KO him with that straight left that he never even connected nearly as clean as Shoguns right later on.


----------



## vilify

why do people want to see a third fight? especially at this moment where machida is still in his hospital room? it makes no sense honestly.


----------



## BobbyCooper

I don't wanna take anything away from Shogun here. He won and deserves to have that belt!

All I am trying to say, is that Shogun didn't owned Lyoto by no means.. in fact I had Lyoto winning the first round. Many Shogun fans are making it out to be.. that his Karate is useless and just not affective against the raw aggression from Muay Thai. It was just a matter of seconds, wich decide fights at this high level and Lyoto got caught, same as Shogun could have went down way earlier in the fight.

Some of you guys were saying, that a third fight would be useless.. cause Lyoto just can not handle Shogun's style and that Shogun is Lyoto's Kryptonite or something.. 

Thats all!

edit: See just like the major Troll today named vilify


----------



## Danm2501

If this happened, if that happened, if Lyoto had this, if Shogun didn't have that. It's all pointless. Andrei Arlovski was beating Fedor before getting KTFO, but that doesn't change anything. Shogun was winning the striking exchanges, and until the knee to the body just before getting KTFO I don't remember Lyoto landing anything of note, well, bar a jab that did no damage what so ever. Machida lost, arguably twice, I'd say Shogun's got his number tbh.


----------



## Mckeever

Danm2501 said:


> If this happened, if that happened, if Lyoto had this, if Shogun didn't have that. It's all pointless. Andrei Arlovski was beating Fedor before getting KTFO, but that doesn't change anything. Shogun was winning the striking exchanges, and until the knee to the body just before getting KTFO I don't remember Lyoto landing anything of note, well, bar a jab that did no damage what so ever. Machida lost, arguably twice, I'd say Shogun's got his number tbh.


Finally. Less of the; but what if lyoto did this, what if he moved here bla bla bla. Shogun came in and wrecked him. Thats all there is to it. Lyoto Machida will never be able to beat shogun.


----------



## BobbyCooper

LOL see, you guys are exactly the kind of group I was talking too^^ Ignorant people.. the one's with there huge perseverance :confused05:

"Shogun got his number" lol what a dumb Rua nuthugger comment lol 

or "Lyoto will never able to beat Shogun" lol that's actually a very good one^^ :thumb02: 

Reality check McKeever, guess you have a short-term memory??


----------



## vilify

I honestly dont want to see a rematch with these two anytime soon. we all have our different opinions but the facts are shogun won the first fight in the eyes of most(including me) and totally destroyed him in the second fight.

I just dont see anyway to market this fight to the fans anytime soon.


----------



## coldcall420

vilify said:


> why do people want to see a third fight? especially at this moment where machida is still in his hospital room? it makes no sense honestly.


 
Your just a troll who looks to insight arguments, its what you love to do, so far all your posts I have seen are soley motivated to ruffle feathers......even when your schooled and proven wrong you argue so......I'll take a quick sec but then Im not wasting my time on nutt huggers that dont respect the sport enough to give props to both fighters.........Gee look at it like this.....its 1-1 ever hear of a rubber match.....See you a Lyoto hater and all over Shoguns nuts so the facial marks bruises and beat up condition he was in after the first fight is a distant memory to you and on top of that you act like he is incvincible....he isnt, last time I checked he has losses on his rec....Lyoto has one!!!



Danm2501 said:


> If this happened, if that happened, if Lyoto had this, if Shogun didn't have that. It's all pointless. Andrei Arlovski was beating Fedor before getting KTFO, but that doesn't change anything. Shogun was winning the striking exchanges, and until the knee to the body just before getting KTFO I don't remember Lyoto landing anything of note, well, bar a jab that did no damage what so ever. Machida lost, arguably twice, I'd say Shogun's got his number tbh.


It's not about this and that, anyone that says the 1st fight wasnt close is dillusional...Period look at the poll for the rematch so yeah...uh it was a mad close fight and on top of that they are probably the best two LHW in the division.....if you are sincere with the fact you think they wont fight again your crazy!!! As far as the second fight let me be clear as Bobby has been till now.....Shogun deserves all the respect and praise along with his supporters....

However, Shogun wasnt owning Lyoto in the 2nd fight, there were 2 scored takedowns in the fight for Lyoto and Lyoto was exchanging fine with Shogun till Lyoto traditional stance right missed and Rua traditional stance right landed right on the temple....how did that situation arise??? Shogun caught him prior to that and had Lyoto in trouble and then when Machida went to counter and missed his right Rua threw his and landed with pin point accuracy....that does not make Shogun the man that Lyoto cant beat nor does it make Shogun the guy that has Lyoto's number...LOL....it means he caught Machida and won the fight......Shogun fans want to run with that and I guess i would too after waiting so long for another crack but lets keep things in perspective and remember that if Lyoto sucks....tell me who is gonna beathim next, and do me a fav and dont say Jon Jones....



Mckeever said:


> Finally. Less of the; but what if lyoto did this, what if he moved here bla bla bla. Shogun came in and wrecked him. Thats all there is to it. Lyoto Machida will never be able to beat shogun.


 
To say this is retarded....they are 1-1 so yeah Lyoto will never beat him, McKeever you have been super fair on this point i saw you think defending Machida with the things i outlined above i thnk, respectfully, this is kinda a dumb statement......Certainly there are going to need to be changes to Mchida's game but to just discredit a guy and write him off when in fact he beat Shogun the 1st time really is beneath you....we both know on any given day anyone can win, I acknowledge that Machida has to make some changes the most beneficial imo would be to utilize his SouthPaw stance against Shogun circling to his right away from the right leg kick of Rua, there are more but thats a start.....:thumb02:


----------



## vilify

CC as usual your post are well thought out and articulate. However, you unfortunately are missing the main point which is that shogun has beat machida twice in the eyes of many many people and the last time out he did it in a horribly violent fashion which is still fresh in our minds.

will they fight again somewhere down the line?. probably, but I dont think we need to see it this year or next year. now if the title changes hands within the next few months then sure let him get another shot, he's an elite fighter.

I honestly dont see how you market a 3rd fight anytime soon.


----------



## coldcall420

vilify said:


> CC as usual your post are well thought out and articulate. However, you unfortunately are missing the main point which is that shogun has beat machida twice in the eyes of many many people and the last time out he did it in a horribly violent fashion which is still fresh in our minds.
> 
> will they fight again somewhere down the line?. probably, but I dont think we need to see it this year or next year. now if the title changes hands within the next few months then sure let him get another shot, he's an elite fighter.
> 
> I honestly dont see how you market a 3rd fight anytime soon.


 
Shogun beat him twice in the eyes of Shogun fans and some of the MMA community, there are just as many fans that think machida won the 1st...Including the MMA community..hence the poll on our forum where its 75-74......you being a Shogun fan take that position thateveryone basically thinks he won the 1st.....one more time.....he didnt.....enough with that.

As far as machida fighting Shogun again, this is the last thing i want for Machida right now, and I have been saying that.....Machida needs at minimum 3 fights and one needs to be against Rampage, maybe 2 with a 3rd against Shogun, we'll see what happens....be well!!:thumbsup:


----------



## Danm2501

coldcall420 said:


> It's not about this and that, anyone that says the 1st fight wasnt close is dillusional...


Never said it wasn't.



coldcall420 said:


> if you are sincere with the fact you think they wont fight again your crazy!!!


Never said they wouldn't.



coldcall420 said:


> However, Shogun wasnt owning Lyoto in the 2nd fight


Never said he was. Just I felt he was dominating the striking exchanges 



coldcall420 said:


> there were 2 scored takedowns in the fight for Lyoto and Lyoto was exchanging fine with Shogun till Lyoto traditional stance right missed and Rua traditional stance right landed right on the temple....how did that situation arise??? Shogun caught him prior to that and had Lyoto in trouble and then when Machida went to counter and missed his right Rua threw his and landed with pin point accuracy....that does not make Shogun the man that Lyoto cant beat nor does it make Shogun the guy that has Lyoto's number...LOL....it means he caught Machida and won the fight......Shogun fans want to run with that and I guess i would too after waiting so long for another crack but lets keep things in perspective and remember that if Lyoto sucks....tell me who is gonna beathim next, and do me a fav and dont say Jon Jones....


Lyoto was possibly winning the fight until getting KTFO, but only because of the takedowns. I felt Shogun was winning the striking exchanges convincingly. Machida wasn't dominating the fight and then unluckily caught. I only saw him land 2 shots of any note in the whole of that round, began to look flustered and it appeared the takedowns came due to him knowing he was losing on the feet. Machida couldn't handle Shogun's aggression, and struggled to maintain his elusiveness and expert countering. 

I also saw Shogun winning the first fight fairly comprehensively. It was a close fight, but I have no doubt that Shogun won. There are very few people outside the hardcore Machida fans, the judges and the Machida camp who think Lyoto won that fight. The large majority of MMA journalists saw Rua winning the fight, as did the majority of fans, including Dana White. Machida doesn't appear to know how to counter Rua's Muay Thai style. It's been said that Muay Thai is the perfect style to combat Karate, and it's been proven here. One of the best Muay Thai practioners in MMA out-striking the best Karate practitioner in MMA. Machida wasn't just caught with a lucky Scott Smith-esque shot. Rua dominated the striking exchanges in this fight, many believe he out-pointed Lyoto in the first fight and then managed to knock Machida out. Appears pretty clear to me that Rua has Machida's number.


----------



## Devil_Bingo

Watched this fight 3 times already i still see that they were fairly even. But tbh i'm probably being biased considering Shogun one of my favourite fighters. They really do need a rubber match.

Noticed Machida didn't do much with his 2 takedowns, does he still get points for that?


----------



## Mckeever

Listen, other than those two take downs Machida scored, he didnt pose any threat. He didnt even pose a threat with the take downs. Rua sprung right back up ti his feet. In fact, i think the take downs did Machida more harm than it did rua. Machida was gassed badly after those two TD's, in the first round! Rua came out aggressive (which has always been his style) and beat Machida up, fair and square.

The reason i say Machida will never be able to beat shogun is because Shogun does have his number. Shogun is a devastating, aggressive Mu Thai striker. Shogun learned from the first fight they he payed FAR too much respect to Lyotos striking, he realised he could walk straight through his strikes and get the KO, and he did just that. Rua will do this time and time again if they fight again.... There is rally nothing at this point Machida can threaten rua with, because he will just be the aggressor and go in for the kill, time and time again.

Machida fans you need to just suck it up and if you think that the majority of the mma community thought Machida won the first fight, then you are deluded.It was a very small minority of the community (the machida fanboys) who still think machida won that first fight, every one else and their grandmothers thought rua had won and he did win. Accept it and move on, rua is 2-0 against lyoto. Lyoto needs to recover physically and mentally and get back beating up the rest of the LHW division.


----------



## SM33

Well a lot of Machida fans insisted Machida was unbeatable and flamed anyone who disagreed, but anyway...

They are 1-1 on paper so that will never change, but a KO is more decisive than a decision...the nature of Lyoto's win and the nature of Shogun's win together don't create any reason for a rematch [anytime soon].


----------



## BobbyCooper

coldcall420 said:


> Your just a troll who looks to insight arguments, its what you love to do, so far all your posts I have seen are soley motivated to ruffle feathers......even when your schooled and proven wrong you argue so......I'll take a quick sec but then Im not wasting my time on nutt huggers that dont respect the sport enough to give props to both fighters.........Gee look at it like this.....its 1-1 ever hear of a rubber match.....See you a Lyoto hater and all over Shoguns nuts so the facial marks bruises and beat up condition he was in after the first fight is a distant memory to you and on top of that you act like he is incvincible....he isnt, last time I checked he has losses on his rec....Lyoto has one!!!
> 
> 
> 
> It's not about this and that, anyone that says the 1st fight wasnt close is dillusional...Period look at the poll for the rematch so yeah...uh it was a mad close fight and on top of that they are probably the best two LHW in the division.....if you are sincere with the fact you think they wont fight again your crazy!!! As far as the second fight let me be clear as Bobby has been till now.....Shogun deserves all the respect and praise along with his supporters....
> 
> However, Shogun wasnt owning Lyoto in the 2nd fight, there were 2 scored takedowns in the fight for Lyoto and Lyoto was exchanging fine with Shogun till Lyoto traditional stance right missed and Rua traditional stance right landed right on the temple....how did that situation arise??? Shogun caught him prior to that and had Lyoto in trouble and then when Machida went to counter and missed his right Rua threw his and landed with pin point accuracy....that does not make Shogun the man that Lyoto cant beat nor does it make Shogun the guy that has Lyoto's number...LOL....it means he caught Machida and won the fight......Shogun fans want to run with that and I guess i would too after waiting so long for another crack but lets keep things in perspective and remember that if Lyoto sucks....tell me who is gonna beathim next, and do me a fav and dont say Jon Jones....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To say this is retarded....they are 1-1 so yeah Lyoto will never beat him, McKeever you have been super fair on this point i saw you think defending Machida with the things i outlined above i thnk, respectfully, this is kinda a dumb statement......Certainly there are going to need to be changes to Mchida's game but to just discredit a guy and write him off when in fact he beat Shogun the 1st time really is beneath you....we both know on any given day anyone can win, I acknowledge that Machida has to make some changes the most beneficial imo would be to utilize his SouthPaw stance against Shogun circling to his right away from the right leg kick of Rua, there are more but thats a start.....:thumb02:


Right here guys :thumbsup: Very nice post CC! Couldn't have said it any better. 

There is nothing more to add!


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Mckeever said:


> Listen, other than those two take downs Machida scored, he didnt pose any threat. He didnt even pose a threat with the take downs. Rua sprung right back up ti his feet. In fact, i think the take downs did Machida more harm than it did rua. Machida was gassed badly after those two TD's, in the first round! Rua came out aggressive (which has always been his style) and beat Machida up, fair and square.
> 
> The reason i say Machida will never be able to beat shogun is because Shogun does have his number. Shogun is a devastating, aggressive Mu Thai striker. Shogun learned from the first fight they he payed FAR too much respect to Lyotos striking, he realised he could walk straight through his strikes and get the KO, and he did just that. Rua will do this time and time again if they fight again.... There is rally nothing at this point Machida can threaten rua with, because he will just be the aggressor and go in for the kill, time and time again.
> 
> Machida fans you need to just suck it up and if you think that the majority of the mma community thought Machida won the first fight, then you are deluded.It was a very small minority of the community (the machida fanboys) who still think machida won that first fight, every one else and their grandmothers thought rua had won and he did win. Accept it and move on, rua is 2-0 against lyoto. Lyoto needs to recover physically and mentally and get back beating up the rest of the LHW division.


Saying that Machida will never beat Shogun is completely a person's opinion. Machida beat Shogun the first time and that is what Shogun fans need to get over. Yes, Shogun beat Machida badly but why is it so far fetched to think that Machida could come in and beat Shogun again. I believe that Machida fought badly because he was too worried about Shogun's kicks that he suffered because of it. I wouldn't be surprised if they fought again and it was very competitive.


----------



## steveo412

BobbyCooper said:


> I don't wanna take anything away from Shogun here. He won and deserves to have that belt!
> 
> All I am trying to say, is that Shogun didn't owned Lyoto by no means.. in fact I had Lyoto winning the first round. Many Shogun fans are making it out to be.. that his Karate is useless and just not affective against the raw aggression from Muay Thai. It was just a matter of seconds, wich decide fights at this high level and Lyoto got caught, same as *Shogun could have went down way earlier in the fight.*
> 
> Some of you guys were saying, that a third fight would be useless.. cause Lyoto just can not handle Shogun's style and that Shogun is Lyoto's Kryptonite or something..
> 
> Thats all!
> 
> edit: See just like the major Troll today named vilify


Like what is this bolded? When? With that weak ass punch he hit him with when Shogun was on one leg? How was that even remotely close to KOing him? Shogun always gets hit in his fights and has never been hurt from a shot like that. There was no part in this fight where Lyoto was close to KOing him or had a chance to? like I dont even see how there is an argument for it.



coldcall420 said:


> Shogun beat him twice in the eyes of Shogun fans and some of the MMA community, there are just as many fans that think machida won the 1st...Including the MMA community..*hence the poll on our forum where its 75-74*......you being a Shogun fan take that position thateveryone basically thinks he won the 1st.....one more time.....he didnt.....enough with that.
> 
> As far as machida fighting Shogun again, this is the last thing i want for Machida right now, and I have been saying that.....Machida needs at minimum 3 fights and one needs to be against Rampage, maybe 2 with a 3rd against Shogun, we'll see what happens....be well!!:thumbsup:


That poll was for who they thought would win the rematch not who won the first fight. Polls online after there first fight had results 70-80% of people thinking Shogun won the fight. Either way though the first fight really had no winner. To say either won in such a tainted decision where an immediate rematch is called is a waste. There was no winner in the first fight thats why they had to solve it with a second fight.


----------



## Mckeever

HitOrGetHit said:


> Saying that Machida will never beat Shogun is completely a person's opinion. Machida beat Shogun the first time and that is what Shogun fans need to get over. Yes, Shogun beat Machida badly but why is it so far fetched to think that Machida could come in and beat Shogun again. I believe that Machida fought badly because he was too worried about Shogun's kicks that he suffered because of it. I wouldn't be surprised if they fought again and it was very competitive.


Of course it is my opinion, this entire thread is full of opinion, i just dont feel the need to put IMO at the end of every post.

Say what you want, lyoto got beaten up in the first fight and iy should of been a loss on his record. Various statistics show how rua won the fight and all pro fighters and dana white himself admit shogun won the first fight. Like i said, it is only a handful of die hard Machida fans who are unable to accept it, still.

Tell me how you see Machida winning a fight against rua again? The first fight, rua was way too gun shy and payed far too much respect to Lyoto's striking. Come the second fight, he realised this and went into the fight old school, chute box, classic rua style and KO'd Machida. Machida was unable to evade shogun, unable to counter effectively and this is what Machida's bread and butter is. Evading, countering, catching opponents off guard. Rua now knows he can take every thing Machida has to offer and still go in for the kill. Machidas power doesnt threaten Rua, he can just plough through and use his agressive Mu thai. 

Honestly, i just cant see how Machida can ever come back and beat Rua, unless he develops some serious striking power and learns how to brawl in really aggressive situations like rua, then there is no way he can compete. How do you see a third fight going down?


----------



## HitOrGetHit

The first fight was a lot closer than most people thought. There were a lot of shots that were missed in exchanges such as leg kicks that were missed because of a punch or something along those lines. The point is that a lot of people thought that their fighter won the fight.

If Machida could avoid being KO'd in the first fight, then he can in the future. Just because they had an extremely close fight and Shogun KO'd Machida in the second does not prove that Shogun has Machida's number.


----------



## Mckeever

HitOrGetHit said:


> The first fight was a lot closer than most people thought. There were a lot of shots that were missed in exchanges such as leg kicks that were missed because of a punch or something along those lines. The point is that a lot of people thought that their fighter won the fight.
> 
> If Machida could avoid being KO'd in the first fight, then he can in the future. Just because they had an extremely close fight and Shogun KO'd Machida in the second does not prove that Shogun has Machida's number.


Im not saying the first fight wasnt close, it was, but Rua clearly landed more strikes, harder strikers and had octagon control. This forumula = fight won in most peoples eyes. And most people believed shogun won.

If Machida could avoid being KO'd in the first fight. Key word first fight. Like i said, Rua LEARNED his mistakes from the first fight of being too gunshy and not using his aggression appropriately. He was too respectful of Lyoto's striking. He learned from this and in the second fight came out guns blazing, like he does in all of his fights and KO'd Machida. Rua will do this time and time and time again in any rematch that happens down the road and i really dont think Machida will have an answer for it.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Mckeever said:


> Im not saying the first fight wasnt close, it was, but Rua clearly landed more strikes, harder strikers and had octagon control. This forumula = fight won in most peoples eyes. And most people believed shogun won.
> 
> If Machida could avoid being KO'd in the first fight. Key word first fight. Like i said, Rua LEARNED his mistakes from the first fight of being too gunshy and not using his aggression appropriately. He was too respectful of Lyoto's striking. He learned from this and in the second fight came out guns blazing, like he does in all of his fights and KO'd Machida. Rua will do this time and time and time again in any rematch that happens down the road and i really dont think Machida will have an answer for it.


If Shogun learned from his mistakes from the first fight and was able to win the second, then why is it hard to believe that Machida could learn from his mistakes in the second fight and do much better in the third fight?


----------



## Mckeever

HitOrGetHit said:


> If Shogun learned from his mistakes from the first fight and was able to win the second, then why is it hard to believe that Machida could learn from his mistakes in the second fight and do much better in the third fight?


What mistakes can he learn from though? Counter attacking is Machidas bread and butter, he cant suddenly change his style which he has been working on all of his life can he. He cant stop the aggression of rua or the power and he will get beaten again and again. If you can provide some insight as to what Machida could do to beat rua, that would be great. But as of now, i cant think of any thing.


----------



## SM33

> If Shogun learned from his mistakes from the first fight and was able to win the second, then why is it hard to believe that Machida could learn from his mistakes in the second fight and do much better in the third fight?


Because Lyoto already possesses the strategic and technical skills required to hit Shogun, but the strikes prove quite ineffective against him 99% of the time.

So, at least in the stand-up department, there's not a lot Lyoto can do - he struggles to hurt Rua, but gets hit too often by him and is very susceptible to his power.

I say this IN LIKELYHOOD because nothing is set in stone in the world of fighting.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Mckeever said:


> What mistakes can he learn from though? Counter attacking is Machidas bread and butter, he cant suddenly change his style which he has been working on all of his life can he. He cant stop the aggression of rua or the power and he will get beaten again and again. If you can provide some insight as to what Machida could do to beat rua, that would be great. But as of now, i cant think of any thing.





SM33 said:


> Because Lyoto already possesses the strategic and technical skills required to hit Shogun, but the strikes prove quite ineffective against him 99% of the time.
> 
> So, at least in the stand-up department, there's not a lot Lyoto can do - he struggles to hurt Rua, but gets hit too often by him and is very susceptible to his power.
> 
> I say this IN LIKELYHOOD because nothing is set in stone in the world of fighting.



Machida could have been thinking too much about the leg kicks or he could have wasted too much energy on the takedowns. Maybe he will keep his hands up more when he counters or become a bit more agressive. There is a ton of things that a fighter can do that doesn't change their styles as a whole but any mixed martial artist is capable of learning and evolving. They don't stay the same.


----------



## Mckeever

HitOrGetHit said:


> Machida could have been thinking too much about the leg kicks or he could have wasted too much energy on the takedowns. Maybe he will keep his hands up more when he counters or become a bit more agressive. There is a ton of things that a fighter can do that doesn't change their styles as a whole but any mixed martial artist is capable of learning and evolving. They don't stay the same.


Yes, but Ruas entire game is aggression, explosiveness, constant pressure and power. He has been training with chute box this way his entire life. 3 major things seperate rua from Machida. Power, chin, aggression. Rua has a distinctive advantage in all three areas. Machida wont be able to cope with Rua's aggression and power if they fight again. Rua also seems to be smarter at game planning and strategy now.


----------



## M.C

As I stated in a previous post, I firmly believe a lot of their second fight came down to Machida's power vs. Shogun's chin.

I really believe that Shogun felt all of Machida's power in the first fight, and felt very comfortable getting hit by Machida. I believe in the second fight, he came out in beast mode and put on the pressure, put on the pace, and went for the finish, not worrying too much about Machida's power, where in the first fight he was very careful and didn't do his normal beast mode.

I think if they did fight a third time, that Shogun just might take it again. The only reason why I would put money on Shogun again, is because of his chin vs. Machida's power. I had Machida winning the second fight, not a lot, but slightly, and I think that's because of the takedowns. I think style wise, Machida could decison Shogun again, however, Shogun is not afraid of Machida's power anymore, he saw what he could do in the first fight, and felt very comfortable, so he went beast mode, and, Shogun is extremely effective when being aggressive, so he doesn't get picked apart like everyone else would being aggressive against Machida.

After watching the first fight again, then watching the second, you can get a sense of "if Shogun had put a lot more pressure in the first fight, he might have finished it as well". 

The only and main reason I feel that Shogun would win a third fight, as I said, is all based on Shogun being able to take all the shots that Machida can throw, and come in hard, where I don't think Machida can take all of Shogun's shots, clearly.

Skill and style wise, a third match would be amazing and it's up in the air, but because Shogun can take Machida's shots, you will probably see the same fight again in the third matchup.

It really has nothing to do with Machida's Karate not being effective, it really is, many think he was winning the second fight before the knockout, but it was also very close, much like the first fight was very close, but in the end, Shogun went full on beast mode and finished it, and I'd see the third fight going the same way.


----------



## Life B Ez

Michael Carson said:


> As I stated in a previous post, I firmly believe a lot of their second fight came down to Machida's power vs. Shogun's chin.
> 
> I really believe that Shogun felt all of Machida's power in the first fight, and felt very comfortable getting hit by Machida. I believe in the second fight, he came out in beast mode and put on the pressure, put on the pace, and went for the finish, not worrying too much about Machida's power, where in the first fight he was very careful and didn't do his normal beast mode.
> 
> I think if they did fight a third time, that Shogun just might take it again. The only reason why I would put money on Shogun again, is because of his chin vs. Machida's power. I had Machida winning the second fight, not a lot, but slightly, and I think that's because of the takedowns. I think style wise, Machida could decison Shogun again, however, Shogun is not afraid of Machida's power anymore, he saw what he could do in the first fight, and felt very comfortable, so he went beast mode, and, Shogun is extremely effective when being aggressive, so he doesn't get picked apart like everyone else would being aggressive against Machida.
> 
> After watching the first fight again, then watching the second, you can get a sense of "if Shogun had put a lot more pressure in the first fight, he might have finished it as well".
> 
> The only and main reason I feel that Shogun would win a third fight, as I said, is all based on Shogun being able to take all the shots that Machida can throw, and come in hard, where I don't think Machida can take all of Shogun's shots, clearly.
> 
> Skill and style wise, a third match would be amazing and it's up in the air, but because Shogun can take Machida's shots, you will probably see the same fight again in the third matchup.
> 
> It really has nothing to do with Machida's Karate not being effective, it really is, many think he was winning the second fight before the knockout, but it was also very close, much like the first fight was very close, but in the end, Shogun went full on beast mode and finished it, and I'd see the third fight going the same way.


Exactly what I've been thinking. In the first fight Shogun looked like he was waiting for some crazy Machida move to rock him and the fight be over and it never happened. So in the second fight Shogun wasn't worried about getting hit and just kept trying to finish. I think Machida picked up on it too, imo, that's why he looked scared, as some people have said. He knew Shogun was no longer scared of getting KO'd.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Thats true Michael and like I mentioned earlier.. The reason why Shogun won and Lyoto didn't, is because of Shogun's power and chin!

That's why Lyoto, in a third clash, needs to get back to his roots and be the elusive Champion we all know. Can he finish Shogun?? I think he is able too, because I believe that everybody can be Kocked Out. If Lyoto hit's him on the one spot, then yes even Shogun will fall on the mat!


----------



## Life B Ez

BobbyCooper said:


> Thats true Michael and like I mentioned earlier.. The reason why Shogun won and Lyoto didn't, is because of Shogun's power and chin!
> 
> That's why Lyoto, in a third clash, needs to get back to his roots and be the elusive Champion we all know. Can he finish Shogun?? I think he is able too, because I believe that everybody can be Kocked Out. If Lyoto hit's him on the one spot, then yes even Shogun will fall on the mat!


The problem with that is Machida going back to his roots is setting hi back up to get his legs kicked all to hell again. I think in a third fight Lyoto should try to work his ground game, he got two takedowns easy, but didn't do anything with them.


----------



## BobbyCooper

Yea I mentioned that as well earlier too. Lyoto needs to work on his GnP and top control. He took Rua down by will.. Shogun can not defend Lyoto's Sumo sweeps. Like I said, maybe Lyoto was a little afraid of Shoguns BJJ.. Who knows?!


----------



## Mckeever

He also needs to work on his cardio, it has looked suspect in the past too. He was gasping for air after those two take downs.


----------



## M.C

You both are correct.

If Machida wants to beat Shogun, he's going to have to work on his ground game. He can take Shogun down, it was almost effortless when he did, but Shogun's ground game is pretty solid and you can tell Machida wasn't very comfortable on top of him. 

I think if Machida wants to really win the third fight, he'll need to work heavily on his ground game and keep the fight there.

He still has a chance of winning a decision standing of course, but, I don't think he can do that now that Shogun is not only not afraid of Machida's power/striking, but knows he can knock him out with his own strikes/power. 

So, yeah, we're all in agreement, Machida needs to work on his ground game.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Mckeever said:


> Yes, but Ruas entire game is aggression, explosiveness, constant pressure and power. He has been training with chute box this way his entire life. 3 major things seperate rua from Machida. Power, chin, aggression. Rua has a distinctive advantage in all three areas. Machida wont be able to cope with Rua's aggression and power if they fight again. Rua also seems to be smarter at game planning and strategy now.


I know that he has an advantage there but I am just saying that Machida has the ability to make some corrections. Rogan made a valid point that Machida's hand was questionable which could have affected his striking and his stance and I believe that Machida was looking so hard for the kicks that he made a mistake that led to him losing the fight.

I am not saying that Machida would win a third fight, all I am saying is that a fighter of Machida's skill level, is capable of fixing things and adapting for a certain fight, and I think that a third figh could be competitive again.


----------



## FrodoFraggins

BobbyCooper said:


> Lyoto changed to much for this fight and was in my eyes way to aggressive! In the 3 fight, he needs to get back to his roots. But he should always use his amazing Takedowns against Shogun.


I definitely think Machida changed things too much as well. I think he took the fan criticisms to heart and wanted to bring it to Shogun this time around.




BobbyCooper said:


> The only thing he needs to improve, is his GnP and top control. Lyoto didn't knew what he should do on top of Shogun.. but he can fix that hole easily for the next fight I believe. His Takedowns aren't stoppable for Shogun!


I agree that Machida's ground game is what's most in need of fixing, but Shogun was prepared to capitalize on Machida's other weaknesses, such as leaving himself too open when he punches. If Machida doesn't address that as well he will likely not beat Shogun.

Also, if they do fight again in the future, Shogun will probably be more prepared for Machida's takedowns.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

I believe that Shogun stated that he knew Machida left his hands low when countering and he definitely took advantage of that crucial mistake.


----------



## streetpunk08

Machida could get better and win a possible 3rd fight but if it happened now there's no doubt in my mind Shogun would win it. If you were to base an opinion of Lyoto winning a 3rd fight based an him getting the decision in the 1st fight, it's kinda irrelevant imo considering how different Shogun came out in the 2nd. He was alot more agrressive, showed 0 regard to Machida's striking, and threw alot more punches to the head. Based on the outcome of the 2nd fight I see no reason why Shogun would revert to the gameplan and mindset he had in the 1st fight. Shogun got in his face and was tagging him while showing no respect for Machida's power, and it was obvious Lyoto did not like that at all.


----------



## khoveraki

I just wanted to mention that, although Lyoto's take-downs are some of the best in the UFC, the sweep that Shogun did was so high level and performed so precisely that it eliminates any belief for me that Lyoto could mount an offense on the ground.












Lyoto's clinch throws are so awesome. The clinic he put on against Tito proved he was the best take-down artist at 205. 

I can't wait to see more of this. :thumbsup:


----------



## Life B Ez

khoveraki said:


> I just wanted to mention that, although Lyoto's take-downs are some of the best in the UFC, the sweep that Shogun did was so high level and performed so precisely that it eliminates any belief for me that Lyoto could mount an offense on the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lyoto's clinch throws are so awesome. The clinic he put on against Tito proved he was the best take-down artist at 205.
> 
> I can't wait to see more of this. :thumbsup:


I agree and I think people are overestimating the takedown. Lyoto's are great, but the second one Shogun try to take him down and slipped, giving Lyoto the window for another easy TD. Not to mention if there is a rubber match, pretty sure Shogun would work on his TDD.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

khoveraki said:


> I just wanted to mention that, although Lyoto's take-downs are some of the best in the UFC, the sweep that Shogun did was so high level and performed so precisely that it eliminates any belief for me that Lyoto could mount an offense on the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lyoto's clinch throws are so awesome. The clinic he put on against Tito proved he was the best take-down artist at 205.
> 
> I can't wait to see more of this. :thumbsup:


I would have to see them on the ground more to formulate an argument on whether or not Lyoto could mount an offense on the ground or not with Shogun. Shogun had an awesome sweep but the fight wasn't on the ground enough to make an accurate statement.


----------



## Life B Ez

HitOrGetHit said:


> I would have to see them on the ground more to formulate an argument on whether or not Lyoto could mount an offense on the ground or not with Shogun. Shogun had an awesome sweep but the fight wasn't on the ground enough to make an accurate statement.


It hit the ground twice in less then 3 minutes, if Machida was going to mount any kind of offense he would have been able to do it, Shogun swept it twice and got right back up. Lyoto needs to work on his top control if there is a third fight.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Life B Ez said:


> It hit the ground twice in less then 3 minutes, if Machida was going to mount any kind of offense he would have been able to do it, Shogun swept it twice and got right back up. Lyoto needs to work on his top control if there is a third fight.


I am not saying one way or the other, I just don't feel comfortable making a statement for either side until I see a bit more.


----------



## Intermission

Shogun has some insane sweeps.

Machida needs to obv work on his ground control to be a completely well rounded fighter. 

There is still some holes in his game and Shogun exploited them not once but twice.


----------



## Life B Ez

HitOrGetHit said:


> I am not saying one way or the other, I just don't feel comfortable making a statement for either side until I see a bit more.


Yeah, that makes sense, I was just saying I think Lyoto gets beat standing no matter what in a third fight. Shogun isn't afraid of his power so he'll rush him again. And if Machida tries to be ultra elusive and just land a couple punches and get a UD, Shogun will kick his legs until Lyoto can't walk anymore. So I think Machida's been shot is getting it to the ground because you can't KO someone from your back, don't care how powerful you are haha.



> Shogun has some insane sweeps.
> 
> Machida needs to obv work on his ground control to be a completely well rounded fighter.
> 
> There is still some holes in his game and Shogun exploited them not once but twice.


And sick leg locks, it would have been interesting to see if Lyoto would have tapped had Shogun locked something up.


----------



## Intermission

Life B Ez said:


> Yeah, that makes sense, I was just saying I think Lyoto gets beat standing no matter what in a third fight. Shogun isn't afraid of his power so he'll rush him again. And if Machida tries to be ultra elusive and just land a couple punches and get a UD, Shogun will kick his legs until Lyoto can't walk anymore. So I think Machida's been shot is getting it to the ground because you can't KO someone from your back, don't care how powerful you are haha.


Hmm, well I somewhat agree with this. I mean Shogun has proved that loyotos elusiveness isnt really much to a really agressive fighter. Not to mention Rua puts it on the line everytime and if he gets knocked out hes not scared. 

and no knockouts from your back?

hmmm..


----------



## Life B Ez

Intermission said:


> and no knockouts from your back?
> 
> hmmm..


Can't get the video to load, is that when he KO'd him with an upkick?


----------



## Intermission

Life B Ez said:


> Can't get the video to load, is that when he KO'd him with an upkick?


lol yupp...

Out cold...


----------



## Life B Ez

Intermission said:


> lol yupp...
> 
> Out cold...


Fitch did that to Alves too, haha. 

Maybe I should have said you can't KO someone in your guard.


----------



## Intermission

Life B Ez said:


> Fitch did that to Alves too, haha.
> 
> Maybe I should have said you can't KO someone in your guard.


lol I know what you meant, I just decided it was going to be fun to add a little gegard to this thread


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Intermission said:


> Hmm, well I somewhat agree with this. I mean Shogun has proved that loyotos elusiveness isnt really much to a really agressive fighter. Not to mention Rua puts it on the line everytime and if he gets knocked out hes not scared.
> 
> and no knockouts from your back?
> 
> hmmm..


Mousasi is a beast off of his back. He did more damage to Kingo Mo when Mo was on top!


----------



## Life B Ez

HitOrGetHit said:


> Mousasi is a beast off of his back. He did more damage to Kingo Mo when Mo was on top!


King Mo's face was beat all to hell too, haha.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

Life B Ez said:


> King Mo's face was beat all to hell too, haha.


That fight is the PERFECT example of takedowns being overrated. But back to Lyoto/Shogun! Inter really derailed the thread haha!


----------



## coldcall420

Life B Ez said:


> Yeah, I've been showing the guy respect.....it's you I'm starting to think doesn't deserve any.......all this because I Machida lost and I'm not as sad as you......it's too early for this.
> 
> When you explain how I'm trolling, I'll try to discuss that, because you're pretty much the one trolling at this point, it's sad, I thought you were above fanboy behavior.


 
Trolls respond instantly waiting for a response so they can continue to argue by posting immediately, like yourself, so I decided to walk away and then address the questions below....



steveo412 said:


> Man I dont think your thinking about this the right way. Shogun read Lyotos punch perfectly dodged it and countered, This is in no way just a time where two guys just through punches and whoever landed was going to win. Lyoto was dodged and countered perfectly thats all it was. This was in no way a lucky punch or just bad luck for Lyoto that he missed, he was simply dodged countered and KO'd.


I 100% agree with this statement, I also dont agree with those (not saying you steveo) that think that Lyoto was dominated in the first fight, I'm not a super "fan boy" I just want people to keep things in persecutive which often does not happen after a big win....:thumbsup:



Danm2501 said:


> I also saw Shogun winning the first fight fairly comprehensively. It was a close fight, but I have no doubt that Shogun won.* There are very few people outside the hardcore Machida fans, the judges and the Machida camp who think Lyoto won that fight*. The large majority of MMA journalists saw Rua winning the fight, as did the majority of fans, including Dana White. Machida doesn't appear to know how to counter Rua's Muay Thai style. It's been said that Muay Thai is the perfect style to combat Karate, and it's been proven here. One of the best Muay Thai practioners in MMA out-striking the best Karate practitioner in MMA. Machida wasn't just caught with a lucky Scott Smith-esque shot. Rua dominated the striking exchanges in this fight, many believe he out-pointed Lyoto in the first fight and then managed to knock Machida out. Appears pretty clear to me that Rua has Machida's number.


 
I respect you opinion other than the bold part, If i could find it i will post it but there was even a thread on here that quoted many fighters as saying they thought the decision was right and thatthey didnt understand why people were questioning it....I'll look for it....


steveo412 said:


> Like what is this bolded? When? With that weak ass punch he hit him with when Shogun was on one leg? *How was that even remotely close to KOing him?* Shogun always gets hit in his fights and has never been hurt from a shot like that. *There was no part in this fight where Lyoto was close to KOing him or had a chance to? like I dont even see how there is an argument for it.*
> 
> 
> 
> *That poll was for who they thought would win the rematch not who won the first fight.* Polls online after there first fight had results 70-80% of people thinking Shogun won the fight. Either way though the first fight really had no winner.* To say either won in such a tainted decision where an immediate rematch is called is a waste. There was no winner in the first fight thats why they had to solve it with a second fight*.



I never said Lyoto was close to KOing him, i was simply pointing out he was in the fight and had scored two take downs in the 1st, had he not got caught and that round ended at that rate he could have won it, to argue that may be going in circles but many people even Shogun fans have stated that on this thread.....
No one argued that he was close to KOing Shogun so there is no need to get upset or worked up....
I'm fully aware of what the poll was for, the reason i mentioned it was because it also indicates that while you think so many people think Shogun won the first then that poll wouldn't be as close for the second fight, I thought you would understand drawing that conclusion, it seems pretty elementary....
Simply put Machida is 16-1 and won a very close fight against a guy that very well could have beat him the first time if he had tried to finish him, that was his error because Lyoto won 1,2,3, so his only chance to win was a finish, either way, uh, that def was a win for Machida and to say there was no winner makes it hard to debate....
I will say there are holes that are apparent now in Lyoto's game, I would love to know who you think can beat him other than Shogun because he is one hell of a fighter that everyone wants to write off after 1 loss, well thats great to me because he will only come back better from this he has been a student of fighting his whole life. Personally, I want to see him fight rampage, a nice aggressive guy but we will see shat happens, most likely he will get the loser of Rampage Rashad I think....


----------



## Mckeever

coldcall420 said:


> Trolls respond instantly waiting for a response so they can continue to argue by posting immediately, like yourself, so I decided to walk away and then address the questions below....
> 
> 
> 
> I 100% agree with this statement, I also dont agree with those (not saying you steveo) that think that Lyoto was dominated in the first fight, I'm not a super "fan boy" I just want people to keep things in persecutive which often does not happen after a big win....:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I respect you opinion other than the bold part, If i could find it i will post it but there was even a thread on here that quoted many fighters as saying they thought the decision was right and thatthey didnt understand why people were questioning it....I'll look for it....
> 
> 
> I never said Lyoto was close to KOing him, i was simply pointing out he was in the fight and had scored two take downs in the 1st, had he not got caught and that round ended at that rate he could have won it, to argue that may be going in circles but many people even Shogun fans have stated that on this thread.....
> No one argued that he was close to KOing Shogun so there is no need to get upset or worked up....
> I'm fully aware of what the poll was for, the reason i mentioned it was because it also indicates that while you think so many people think Shogun won the first then that poll wouldn't be as close for the second fight, I thought you would understand drawing that conclusion, it seems pretty elementary....
> Simply put Machida is 16-1 and won a very close fight against a guy that very well could have beat him the first time if he had tried to finish him, that was his error because Lyoto won 1,2,3, so his only chance to win was a finish, either way, uh, that def was a win for Machida and to say there was no winner makes it hard to debate....
> I will say there are holes that are apparent now in Lyoto's game, I would love to know who you think can beat him other than Shogun because he is one hell of a fighter that everyone wants to write off after 1 loss, well thats great to me because he will only come back better from this he has been a student of fighting his whole life. Personally, I want to see him fight rampage, a nice aggressive guy but we will see shat happens, most likely he will get the loser of Rampage Rashad I think....


Adressing the last part of your post:

"I don't wanna take anything away from Shogun here. He won and deserves to have that belt!

All I am trying to say, is that Shogun didn't owned Lyoto by no means.. in fact I had Lyoto winning the first round. Many Shogun fans are making it out to be.. that his Karate is useless and just not affective against the raw aggression from Muay Thai. It was just a matter of seconds, wich decide fights at this high level and Lyoto got caught, same as *Shogun could have went down way earlier in the fight.*

Some of you guys were saying, that a third fight would be useless.. cause Lyoto just can not handle Shogun's style and that Shogun is Lyoto's Kryptonite or something.. 

Thats all!"


edit: See just like the major Troll today named vilify 

Bobby says that shogun could of got knocked down or knocked out way earlier in the fight through that jab Machida thrown. He was responding to that.

Also, id say Rua probably has the best ground game in the LHW division. Machida wont be able to hang with rua on the ground, he did almost get subbed by tito ortiz.


----------



## Life B Ez

coldcall420 said:


> Trolls respond instantly waiting for a response so they can continue to argue by posting immediately, like yourself, so I decided to walk away and then address the questions below....


This is the last thing I'm saying, but if responding instantly makes you a troll, I think you need to start counting yourself. Also isn't it funny how I wasn't a troll until your favorite fighter lost........your just taking things I say about Machida personally now because he's not the undefeated champion anymore.


----------



## khoveraki

Life B Ez said:


> Fitch did that to Alves too, haha.
> 
> Maybe I should have said you can't KO someone in your guard.



Ironically enough Mousasi has KO'd a guy from his guard once. I can't remember which fight it was but he basically hammerfisted him after trapping his head and it was lights out.

But Mousasi does stuff off his back that doesn't seem human. :thumb02:


----------



## Life B Ez

khoveraki said:


> Ironically enough Mousasi has KO'd a guy from his guard once. I can't remember which fight it was but he basically hammerfisted him after trapping his head and it was lights out.
> 
> But Mousasi does stuff off his back that doesn't seem human. :thumb02:


That's unreal, how did he get beat by King Mo? I'm still wondering that haha.


----------



## HitOrGetHit

khoveraki said:


> Ironically enough Mousasi has KO'd a guy from his guard once. I can't remember which fight it was but he basically hammerfisted him after trapping his head and it was lights out.
> 
> But Mousasi does stuff off his back that doesn't seem human. :thumb02:


A few posts back in this thread is a video of Mousasi KO'ing Jacare from his back with up kicks.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

khoveraki said:


> Ironically enough Mousasi has KO'd a guy from his guard once. I can't remember which fight it was but he basically hammerfisted him after trapping his head and it was lights out.
> 
> But Mousasi does stuff off his back that doesn't seem human. :thumb02:


KOing someone off your back is rather awesome, but only doing it once and (I think) once KOing a guy with up-kicks off his back, doesn't make him amazing, he's just really good at countering GnP. I remember watching his fight with Mo disgusted, thinking, "This is the guy they say could beat Machida?" Of course this was before Rua slapped his dick on the table and said, "Bam! I'm the one to beat Machida!"



Life B Ez said:


> That's unreal, how did he get beat by King Mo? I'm still wondering that haha.


Slapping your opponent over and over on your back does not get you the win, it makes me wonder if he's a pimp on the side, but.... Takedowns, controlling position and nullifying standup wins fights. That is what Mo did to Captain Overrated.


----------



## Life B Ez

Squirrelfighter said:


> Slapping your opponent over and over on your back does not get you the win, it makes me wonder if he's a pimp on the side, but.... Takedowns, controlling position and nullifying standup wins fights. That is what Mo did to Captain Overrated.


Oh yeah, I didn't mean he should have won that fight with King Mo, I just meant it's amazing that he did. With all the sick stuff he's done in the past, I was just shocked that fight went the way it did.


----------



## Intermission

Squirrelfighter said:


> That is what Mo did to Captain Overrated.


Captain Overrated? 

lol I guess Hector Lombard, Evangelista Santos, Denis Kang, Melvin Manhoef, Ronaldo Souza, Mark Hunt, Renato Sobral, Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou, and Gary Goodridge would all agree with you. 

or how about his 28-3 record at the age of 24. Yup, must be overrated.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

Intermission said:


> Captain Overrated?
> 
> lol I guess Hector Lombard, Evangelista Santos, Denis Kang, Melvin Manhoef, Ronaldo Souza, Mark Hunt, Renato Sobral, Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou, and Gary Goodridge would all agree with you.
> 
> or how about his 28-3 record at the age of 24. Yup, must be overrated.



Did you watch the fight with Mo, I've seen six year olds with better standup, my point was that in the sense that people say he could beat Machida and he is an unnatural talent he is overrated.


----------



## Life B Ez

Intermission said:


> Captain Overrated?
> 
> lol I guess Hector Lombard, Evangelista Santos, Denis Kang, Melvin Manhoef, Ronaldo Souza, Mark Hunt, Renato Sobral, Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou, and Gary Goodridge would all agree with you.
> 
> or how about his 28-3 record at the age of 24. Yup, must be overrated.


Come on man, Shogun is overrated too.....hahaha.



> Did you watch the fight with Mo, I've seen six year olds with better standup, my point was that in the sense that people say he could beat Machida and he is an unnatural talent he is overrated.


That fight was standing for like three minutes total. If you're going to trash someone at least attack the right part of their game, like his TDD or his inability to sweep Mo, not his stand up.....


Can we get back on topic though, this is Shogun v Machida thread not King Mo v Gegard.


----------



## Squirrelfighter

Life B Ez said:


> Come on man, Shogun is overrated too.....hahaha.
> 
> 
> 
> That fight was standing for like three minutes total. If you're going to trash someone at least attack the right part of their game, like his TDD or his inability to sweep Mo, not his stand up.....
> 
> 
> Can we get back on topic though, this is Shogun v Machida thread not King Mo v Gegard.


God dammit dude! I kept trying to quote you and every time I did more stuff showed up!

Yeah rrrright Shogun is overrated! I admit I didn't think he would beat Machida, but that asskicker is far from overrated, assuming nuts aren't blocking someone's vision. 

Okay. Fine, if you inisist. I was referencing him in comparison to Machida's style and how it would go down if they fought, since a great many people have vehemently argued Machida would lose. However his takedown defense was appauling and his position control was laughable. Mo, the rookie by comparison, made Mousasi look like an ameteur. 

Very well! Back on topic! Machida won, I don't know what that ref was looking at! He wasn't KOed! This is rediculous, Karate descrimination! :thumb02:


----------



## BobbyCooper

*Plus Shogun cheated!*






Look at the guy.. I mean you aren't allowed to clone people in this century or am I mistaken?? :confused02:


----------



## Life B Ez

Squirrelfighter said:


> God dammit dude! I kept trying to quote you and every time I did more stuff showed up!
> 
> Yeah rrrright Shogun is overrated! I admit I didn't think he would beat Machida, but that asskicker is far from overrated, assuming nuts aren't blocking someone's vision.
> 
> Okay. Fine, if you inisist. I was referencing him in comparison to Machida's style and how it would go down if they fought, since a great many people have vehemently argued Machida would lose. However his takedown defense was appauling and his position control was laughable. Mo, the rookie by comparison, made Mousasi look like an ameteur.
> 
> Very well! Back on topic! Machida won, I don't know what that ref was looking at! He wasn't KOed! This is rediculous, Karate descrimination! :thumb02:


I don't think Shogun is overrated at all, it was a sarcastic response to you saying Gegard is. Is Moussasi the GOAT, no but he's not a can....


----------



## Squirrelfighter

Life B Ez said:


> I don't think Shogun is overrated at all, it was a sarcastic response to you saying Gegard is. Is Moussasi the GOAT, no but he's not a can....


I figured you were being sarcastic. No one with eyes can call Shogun overrated. And I don't think Mousasi is a can, I just disagree that he is as good as some people have postulated.


----------



## Life B Ez

Squirrelfighter said:


> I figured you were being sarcastic. No one with eyes can call Shogun overrated. And I don't think Mousasi is a can, I just disagree that he is as good as some people have postulated.


Yeah I was never part of that thinking he could easily run through the UFC LHW division, but that's how it always seems to work, there is a guy that would tool everyone in the UFC if they would just sign him.....


----------



## Squirrelfighter

Life B Ez said:


> Yeah I was never part of that thinking he could easily run through the UFC LHW division, but that's how it always seems to work, there is a guy that would tool everyone in the UFC if they would just sign him.....


Are you refering to the HW who's name shall not be spoken for it draws ten thousand neg reps!?


----------



## Life B Ez

Squirrelfighter said:


> Are you refering to the HW who's name shall not be spoken for it draws ten thousand neg reps!?


No.....Never......


----------



## swpthleg

Now you're just being silly.:thumb02:


----------



## steveo412

coldcall420 said:


> Trolls respond instantly waiting for a response so they can continue to argue by posting immediately, like yourself, so I decided to walk away and then address the questions below....
> 
> 
> 
> I 100% agree with this statement, I also dont agree with those (not saying you steveo) that think that Lyoto was dominated in the first fight, I'm not a super "fan boy" I just want people to keep things in persecutive which often does not happen after a big win....:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I respect you opinion other than the bold part, If i could find it i will post it but there was even a thread on here that quoted many fighters as saying they thought the decision was right and thatthey didnt understand why people were questioning it....I'll look for it....
> 
> 
> I never said Lyoto was close to KOing him, i was simply pointing out he was in the fight and had scored two take downs in the 1st, had he not got caught and that round ended at that rate he could have won it, to argue that may be going in circles but many people even Shogun fans have stated that on this thread.....
> No one argued that he was close to KOing Shogun so there is no need to get upset or worked up....
> I'm fully aware of what the poll was for, the reason i mentioned it was because it also indicates that while you think so many people think Shogun won the first then that poll wouldn't be as close for the second fight, I thought you would understand drawing that conclusion, it seems pretty elementary....
> Simply put Machida is 16-1 and won a very close fight against a guy that very well could have beat him the first time if he had tried to finish him, that was his error because Lyoto won 1,2,3, so his only chance to win was a finish, either way, uh, that def was a win for Machida and to say there was no winner makes it hard to debate....
> I will say there are holes that are apparent now in Lyoto's game, I would love to know who you think can beat him other than Shogun because he is one hell of a fighter that everyone wants to write off after 1 loss, well thats great to me because he will only come back better from this he has been a student of fighting his whole life. Personally, I want to see him fight rampage, a nice aggressive guy but we will see shat happens, most likely he will get the loser of Rampage Rashad I think....


I think you mixed up what I quoted. I was talking about what Bobby said about how Machida coulda Ko'd him earlier in the fight when he was not even close to getting a KO. I didnt mean you said that. Check it out bottom of page 62


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## BobbyCooper

Guys I really don't know, why you are questioning this.. 

I mean I extra posted the gif where Lyoto rocks Rashad Evans with his left hand. I know that Lyoto is not known for KO power, but that doesn't change the fact, that everybody can be Knocked Out and Shogun isn't an exception to this. Lyoto hit's him nearly perfectely on the temple, with one of his best punches! Most fighter's would go down in this situation. It's just a matter of this one spot.. if you catch this spot, the guy's brain will shut down for some seconds. Same when Rua knocked down Lyoto with his overhand right.. Lyoto wasn't Knocked Out in this situation, but his brain went out for some seconds and Rua follwed to shut it down completely. The exact same situation could have happened to Shogun one minute into the fight. 

That's not a science guys! It's just a matter of luck.. if you get hit, in a division like Light Heavyweight.. and a guy with as accurate punches and weight like Shogun and Lyoto hit's you on your head, then yes it's human that you might go down and your brain shuts down!


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## Life B Ez

BobbyCooper said:


> Guys I really don't know, why you are questioning this..
> 
> I mean I extra posted the gif where Lyoto rocks Rashad Evans with his left hand. I know that Lyoto is not known for KO power, but that doesn't change the fact, that everybody can be Knocked Out and Shogun isn't an exception to this. Lyoto hit's him nearly perfectely on the temple, with one of his best punches! Most fighter's would go down in this situation. It's just a matter of this one spot.. if you catch this spot, the guy's brain will shut down for some seconds. Same when Rua knocked down Lyoto with his overhand right.. Lyoto wasn't Knocked Out in this situation, but his brain went out for some seconds and Rua follwed to shut it down completely. The exact same situation could have happened to Shogun one minute into the fight.
> 
> That's not a science guys! It's just a matter of luck.. if you get hit, in a division like Light Heavyweight.. and a guy with as accurate punches and weight like Shogun and Lyoto hit's you on your head, then yes it's human that you might go down and your brain shuts down!


I love you Bobby but....


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## Intermission

Life B Ez said:


> I love you Bobby but....


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## The Horticulturist

This is STILL going on?!?!?!? jeeze louise! Both of these guys have devoted fans. 

Well, I am not an exception by any means: 

A random opinion on something: I feel like normally when your fighter loses (especially gets ko'd in round 1) you make an initial statement, and then go into a miniature remission from discussing him at least until his next fight is announced. That is a really smooth move to make, and it really helps you avoid these circular arguments in the first place.


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## khoveraki

Life B Ez said:


> That's unreal, how did he get beat by King Mo? I'm still wondering that haha.


You and me both buddy. It just looked like Mousasi didn't have ANY interest. One member said he looked like his dog just died. Who knows why he was so passive and bored looking.



HitOrGetHit said:


> A few posts back in this thread is a video of Mousasi KO'ing Jacare from his back with up kicks.


The one I'm referring to isn't the Jacare upkick KO, it's a different one but I forgot the fighter's name. :thumbsup:



Squirrelfighter said:


> KOing someone off your back is rather awesome, but only doing it once and (I think) once KOing a guy with up-kicks off his back, doesn't make him amazing, he's just really good at countering GnP. I remember watching his fight with Mo disgusted, thinking, "This is the guy they say could beat Machida?" Of course this was before Rua slapped his dick on the table and said, "Bam! I'm the one to beat Machida!"
> 
> Slapping your opponent over and over on your back does not get you the win, it makes me wonder if he's a pimp on the side, but.... Takedowns, controlling position and nullifying standup wins fights. That is what Mo did to Captain Overrated.



These are thing's Mousasi's done off his back:

Won a LHW tournament.

Upkick KO

Guard KO

Took Sokoudjou down (a decorated Judo BB).

Submitted a BJJ black belt

Nearly submitted Fedor

Wrecked Mo's face


You won't find a more dangerous guy off his back. And in the Mo fight he did get taken down a ton of times but Mo had only I think, 2 dominant positions the whole fight? The rest of the time he was standing near Mousasi's feet getting beat up, or getting beat up on the feet. Mousasi suffered no damage at all the whole fight and was never close to being hurt, rocked, submitted, or finished in any way.

But he still lost and I this thread isn't about them. :thumbsup:


Funny to think that BJ and Lyoto have both been dethroned. And we've got monsters at HW gunning for the belt and two interesting fights at MW.

Too bad WW is still tied up by how young the rest of the division is and how good the champ is.


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## Mckeever

BobbyCooper said:


> Guys I really don't know, why you are questioning this..
> 
> I mean I extra posted the gif where Lyoto rocks Rashad Evans with his left hand. I know that Lyoto is not known for KO power, but that doesn't change the fact, that everybody can be Knocked Out and Shogun isn't an exception to this. Lyoto hit's him nearly perfectely on the temple, with one of his best punches! Most fighter's would go down in this situation. It's just a matter of this one spot.. if you catch this spot, the guy's brain will shut down for some seconds. Same when Rua knocked down Lyoto with his overhand right.. Lyoto wasn't Knocked Out in this situation, but his brain went out for some seconds and Rua follwed to shut it down completely. The exact same situation could have happened to Shogun one minute into the fight.
> 
> That's not a science guys! It's just a matter of luck.. if you get hit, in a division like Light Heavyweight.. and a guy with as accurate punches and weight like Shogun and Lyoto hit's you on your head, then yes it's human that you might go down and your brain shuts down!


WTF is this?!


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## swpthleg

This is me looking at this thread.:bored03:


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## Life B Ez

swpthleg said:


> This is me looking at this thread.:bored03:


LMAO OMG THAT'S GREAT!! HAHAHA


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## coldcall420

Mckeever said:


> Adressing the last part of your post:
> 
> "I don't wanna take anything away from Shogun here. He won and deserves to have that belt!
> 
> All I am trying to say, is that Shogun didn't owned Lyoto by no means.. in fact I had Lyoto winning the first round. Many Shogun fans are making it out to be.. that his Karate is useless and just not affective against the raw aggression from Muay Thai. It was just a matter of seconds, wich decide fights at this high level and Lyoto got caught, same as *Shogun could have went down way earlier in the fight.*
> 
> Some of you guys were saying, that a third fight would be useless.. cause Lyoto just can not handle Shogun's style and that Shogun is Lyoto's Kryptonite or something..
> 
> Thats all!"
> 
> 
> edit: See just like the major Troll today named vilify
> 
> Bobby says that shogun could of got knocked down or knocked out way earlier in the fight through that jab Machida thrown. He was responding to that.
> 
> Also, id say Rua probably has the best ground game in the LHW division. Machida wont be able to hang with rua on the ground, he did almost get subbed by tito ortiz.


I understand Mckeever and i basically agree that jab is dirty but not enough, regardless villy is a troll basic and simple you"ve been here long enough to recognize as well....otherwise for the most part we agree, i just believe that a 3rd fight would be alot closer than the right after the event people think....:thumbsup:



Life B Ez said:


> This is the last thing I'm saying, but if responding instantly makes you a troll, I think you need to start counting yourself. Also isn't it funny how I wasn't a troll until your favorite fighter lost........your just taking things I say about Machida personally now because he's not the undefeated champion anymore.


 
You nag immediately after one posts you have PM'd me telling me i am a neutral Lyoto fan and now you go against that. Simply put you post to argue...call that whatever you want but one thing I will tel you is that you can press me to the limit I will never not defend my Loyalty....I'm not that average member that you will just throw that phrase around with....you can try, but its bullshit, you seem more ready to just straight argue than discuss so I will choose to walk from nonsense, funny how fast you respond..........its like your sitting there waiting for an email notification so you can immediately respond!!!!........again.....trolling!!!



steveo412 said:


> I think you mixed up what I quoted. I was talking about what Bobby said about how Machida coulda Ko'd him earlier in the fight when he was not even close to getting a KO. I didnt mean you said that. Check it out bottom of page 62


 
I think I did my bad......:thumbsup:


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## Mckeever

coldcall420 said:


> I understand Mckeever and i basically agree that jab is dirty but not enough, regardless villy is a troll basic and simple you"ve been here long enough to recognize as well....otherwise for the most part we agree, i just believe that a 3rd fight would be alot closer than the right after the event people think....:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You nag immediately after one posts you have PM'd me telling me i am a neutral Lyoto fan and now you go against that. Simply put you post to argue...call that whatever you want but one thing I will tel you is that you can press me to the limit I will never not defend my Loyalty....I'm not that average member that you will just throw that phrase around with....you can try, but its bullshit, you seem more ready to just straight argue than discuss so I will choose to walk from nonsense, funny how fast you respond..........its like your sitting there waiting for an email notification so you can immediately respond!!!!........again.....trolling!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I did my bad......:thumbsup:


I wasnt talking about villify i was talking about stevo lol.


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## coldcall420

Mckeever said:


> I wasnt talking about villify i was talking about stevo lol.


 
LOL...my bad....:thumb02:


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## BobbyCooper

Life B Ez said:


> I love you Bobby but....





Mckeever said:


> WTF is this?!



LHW fighters = lot of weight = lot of punching power = one punch can end the fight = Brain's aren't designed for these kind of punishment = Fighters brain might shut down = Knock Out!


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## Life B Ez

BobbyCooper said:


> LHW fighters = lot of weight = lot of punching power = one punch can end the fight = Brain's aren't designed for these kind of punishment = Brain will shut down = Fighter brain might shut down = Knock Out!


See my first post.......kidding, I got it the first time it was just really going in circles haha.


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## steveo412

BobbyCooper said:


> Guys I really don't know, why you are questioning this..
> 
> I mean I extra posted the gif where Lyoto rocks Rashad Evans with his left hand. I know that Lyoto is not known for KO power, but that doesn't change the fact, that everybody can be Knocked Out and Shogun isn't an exception to this. Lyoto hit's him nearly perfectely on the temple, with one of his best punches! Most fighter's would go down in this situation. It's just a matter of this one spot.. if you catch this spot, the guy's brain will shut down for some seconds. Same when Rua knocked down Lyoto with his overhand right.. Lyoto wasn't Knocked Out in this situation, but his brain went out for some seconds and Rua follwed to shut it down completely. The exact same situation could have happened to Shogun one minute into the fight.
> 
> That's not a science guys! It's just a matter of luck.. if you get hit, in a division like Light Heavyweight.. and a guy with as accurate punches and weight like Shogun and Lyoto hit's you on your head, then yes it's human that you might go down and your brain shuts down!


Cmon watch the punch in real time, It was weak not even close to rocking him let alone KOing him. To say oh he rocked a guy with a straight punch before so that means any straight punch he throws has a potential of KO is dumb. This punch had no potential to KO Shogun. He was on one leg when it hit him but it was weak and had no chance of KOing him


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## coldcall420

steveo412 said:


> Cmon watch the punch in real time, It was weak not even close to rocking him let alone KOing him. To say oh he rocked a guy with a straight punch before so that means any straight punch he throws has a potential of KO is dumb. This punch had no potential to KO Shogun. He was on one leg when it hit him but it was weak and had no chance of KOing him


 
Why dont you and Bobby take it to Pm's since you are basically writing the same shit on this thread as the other and no real discussion is being had, or get the **** over it, he thinks what he thinks and you dont.....I never get why people on here think they have the ability to take a person and change the way they think......


Seriously its getting old, I thought he was winning the 1st till k
he got KTFO.....but he got KTFO so really everything else is academic along with you guys arguing wether he was or wasnt winning the round....


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## steveo412

Its a forum for debating, Were debating the topic of the thread. I think were in the right place.

May say thats a smartass comment buts its the truth were just discussing the topic


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## coldcall420

steveo412 said:


> Its a forum for debating, Were debating the topic of the thread. I think were in the right place.
> 
> May say thats a smartass comment buts its the truth were just discussing the topic


 
Yes it is a foum for discussing and debating.......so pick one thread to talk about the same thing on.....


http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/76555-l...ack-within-next-ten-months-8.html#post1185399


Not 2 where all you do is re state everything from this thread......


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## steveo412

I read the whole thread and when I got to the end thats what the general topic was being discussed, I never started it, look. I will post wherever though. Merge the threads then.


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## coldcall420

steveo412 said:


> I read the whole thread and when I got to the end thats what the general topic was being discussed, I never started it, look. I will post wherever though. Merge the threads then.


Im not a Mod it was just a suggestion...:thumbsup:


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## swpthleg

Or, we could focus our collective debating energies elsewhere.


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## steveo412

ic thought u were


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## Life B Ez

swpthleg said:


> Or, we could focus our collective debating energies elsewhere.


This right here........let's move to Page vs Rashad....this topic got old quick..,


----------



## swpthleg

I peek in here now and again, because it's been discussed more exhaustively than any other matchup in forum history IMO, and at this point I'm amazed the thread is still going.


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## coldcall420

swpthleg said:


> I peek in here now and again, because it's been discussed more exhaustively than any other matchup in forum history IMO, and at this point I'm amazed the thread is still going.


 
You check in here every night looking for Papi......


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## Life B Ez

swpthleg said:


> I peek in here now and again, because it's been discussed more exhaustively than any other matchup in forum history IMO, and at this point I'm amazed the thread is still going.


We need to the lurking smileys back haha


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## swpthleg

coldcall420 said:


> You check in here every night looking for Papi......


Oh, you got me.

You know I really just want to gaze at my own sig.


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## coldcall420

swpthleg said:


> Oh, you got me.
> 
> You know I really just want to gaze at my own sig.


 
C'mon now tough Gal!!!


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## swpthleg

Yeah. I'm so tough I had to work like a bitch to get a yellow belt, in a sport karate school, in a little community of 40,000.

FAIL!!

That's part of the reason it hurt me so much to see Lyoto lose. He was putting karate back on the map, albeit a way more badass style than goshinjitsu. 

Now I'm bumping the thread........go figure.


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## Brettmk

BobbyCooper said:


> Guys I really don't know, why you are questioning this..
> 
> I mean I extra posted the gif where Lyoto rocks Rashad Evans with his left hand. I know that Lyoto is not known for KO power, but that doesn't change the fact, that everybody can be Knocked Out and Shogun isn't an exception to this. Lyoto hit's him nearly perfectely on the temple, with one of his best punches! Most fighter's would go down in this situation. It's just a matter of this one spot.. if you catch this spot, the guy's brain will shut down for some seconds. Same when Rua knocked down Lyoto with his overhand right.. Lyoto wasn't Knocked Out in this situation, but his brain went out for some seconds and Rua follwed to shut it down completely. The exact same situation could have happened to Shogun one minute into the fight.
> 
> That's not a science guys! It's just a matter of luck.. if you get hit, in a division like Light Heavyweight.. and a guy with as accurate punches and weight like Shogun and Lyoto hit's you on your head, then yes it's human that you might go down and your brain shuts down!


The **** is wrong with your English, learn to use commas


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## Soojooko

Brettmk said:


> The **** is wrong with your English, learn to use commas


The dude is from Germany. Its a country. In Europe. Heard of it? They dont speak English very well there. They also have a terrible dress sense. Go figure.

But seriously, way to introduce yourself... not! :thumbsdown:


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## Hammerlock2.0

It's pretty hard to learn how to use commas in English. We use them whenever a new part of a sentence begins. I've actually started to not use commas because I don't see anyone else using them here...

A what exactly is wrong with our fashion sense?


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## Mirage445

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> It's pretty hard to learn how to use commas in English. We use them whenever a new part of a sentence begins. I've actually started to not use commas because I don't see anyone else using them here...
> 
> A what exactly is wrong with our fashion sense?


Those Jugs look delicious.


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## coldcall420

Soojooko said:


> The dude is from Germany. Its a country. In Europe. Heard of it? They dont speak English very well there. They also have a terrible dress sense. Go figure.
> 
> But seriously, way to introduce yourself... not! :thumbsdown:


 
What he said....:thumbsdown:


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## Squirrelfighter

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> It's pretty hard to learn how to use commas in English. We use them whenever a new part of a sentence begins. I've actually started to not use commas because I don't see anyone else using them here...
> 
> A what exactly is wrong with our fashion sense?


God bless Germany! :thumb02:


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## coldcall420

Squirrelfighter said:


> God bless Germany! :thumb02:


 
Yes Sir thats a quality pic!!!!


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## HitOrGetHit

Brettmk said:


> The **** is wrong with your English, learn to use commas


This is a large forum that is full of people from all over the world. Some of the people that post here do not speak english as their first language so you will have to be much more accpeting of the way people speak on this site. 

As you can see by your rep, other members don't take to kindly to see people tossing insults around.


----------

