# GSP has only one shot at beating BJ



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Go ahead flame me all you want but its true. The only gsP wins is by lay and pray.

Other than wrestling, what exactly is GSP beterr then BJ at? BJJ? No! Striking? No!

So how else is he going to win? Do you really think BJ is going to gas like he di before?? He is so motivated for this fight that he will be in tip top shape.

I just dont see what GSP can do to him. If laying on someone for 3 rounds, trying to hurt them but not doing so is winning a title fight than maybe GSP can win. But thats his only chance.

I challenge anyone to give me another way GSP wins this fight. IF he wins it will be a gay and pray decision. 

Please refresh this thread when the fights over.

BJ can submit or KO GSP, Georges can do neither. I also wouldnt be surprised if BJ won 3 rounds to 2.

Simply put BJ has way more ways to win the fight. If he loses it will be because GSP knows the only way to win nis with takedowns. He is outclassed everywhere else.

Flame away GSP ballwashers!


----------



## r00kie (Jul 8, 2008)

GSP will mix it up, take him down, tire him and GnP him. I never saw a GSP fight that was not entertaining, that lay and pray comment is really disrespectfull.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

I agree for the most part. I can't see GSP doing much to B.J other than holding on to him for the whole fight.


----------



## +Shogun+ (Aug 3, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Go ahead flame me all you want but its true. The only gsP wins is by lay and pray.
> 
> Other than wrestling, what exactly is GSP beterr then BJ at? BJJ? No! Striking? No!
> 
> ...


Oh man ur bar is gonna turn red from this lol. I love BJ, second favorite fighter next to Shogun, but BJ has things to worry about in this fight, although I agree that BJ edges him out in most areas. I still think he's gonna win in impressive fashion though.


----------



## kujo45 (Apr 21, 2008)

Same way BJ lost to matt hughes???


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

kujo45 said:


> Same way BJ lost to matt hughes???


You mean by getting himself injured while only being a few seconds from putting Hughes away until the bell saved him. Then starting the next round injured and not being able to do anything, even defend himself. 

Yeah, I guess that could happen.


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

I think BJ will win but you are really underestimating GSP. GSP has really improved lately. I would say he has better TD's then BJ and he has pretty good sub defense. If this fight doesn't go to a decision it won't end until the 4th or 5th round.


----------



## kujo45 (Apr 21, 2008)

Michael Carson said:


> You mean by getting himself injured while only being a few seconds from putting Hughes away until the bell saved him. Then starting the next round injured and not being able to do anything, even defend himself.
> 
> Yeah, I guess that could happen.


I'm pulling for BJ, but the GSP ground game can be brutal 

(recalling the knees matt serra had to take)


----------



## cezwan (Dec 7, 2007)

whenever i say this i get neg repped hard but honestly, BJ Penn is overrated. 

we will see if BJ's standup is really that good when he fights GSP. i see GSP out striking him, out wrestling him and out working him in this fight.


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

kujo45 said:


> I'm pulling for BJ, but the GSP ground game can be brutal
> 
> (recalling the knees matt serra had to take)


Are you seriously comparing Serra's ground control to B.J? Really?

There is no way GSP can hurt B.J like he did Serra. There are levels in control on the ground, and B.J is many, many steps above Serra.

GSP will be able to hold on and grind out a boring decision if he gets on top of B.J, nothing more.


----------



## kujo45 (Apr 21, 2008)

I feel BJs ground game is superb, and with gas in the tank he can control GSP. 

But I never felt confident that BJ could go 5 rounds without gassing, especially against a big, strong guy like GSP. I think his only chance is to keep the fight up or submit within the first three rounds. 

If it goes deeper, I can see him getting TKO'd on the ground. 

He went three rounds nicely with sherk, but sherk didnt really pressure him physically like GSP is likely to do.


----------



## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

seriously why the HELL is everyone underrating GSPs striking so much? Its really starting ot make me mad. There's no way Penn is a better striker than GSP. No possible way. Better boxer maybe, but in no way a better striker


----------



## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

IMO GSP is going to Dominate thisfight. GSP is now at the very top of his game, completely evolved as a fighter, finaly 100% mentally stable, has a new founded natural strength and speed inside of him and has just really come into his own reaching further and growing more than he ever has before.

I havent seen anything from BJ Penn to say he has done any of this. I do think BJ is back on par with what he used to be and he is a bit speedier since the weight cuts and better eating habits. But i dont think ive seen any real major improvements on his side in a while even in compeition barring Sean Sherk anyways.

My point is BJ got outwrestled by GSP when he was just a another up and comer before he blew up with his new oversized body and before he was the complete article. I dont see anyway BJ can hope to compete at this point. Sean Sherk boxed fairly well with BJ Penn and yeah he lost but lets face it Sherk isnt really known for his striking prowess or power.

GSP's striking game has come full circle and these days he just mixes things up so well and does has phnominal power aswell. IMO if Sherk can strike as well as he did with BJ then GSP shouldnt be too concerned with BJ's so called striking advantage.

Georges is coming into this fight, bigger, stronger, and faster and just plain more mentally focused than BJ. I think GSP is pissed with all of BJ' trash talk and this fight is going to truly show us the level of both these guys.

BJ Penn, your days are numbered...


----------



## Suizida (Feb 29, 2008)

TraMaI said:


> seriously why the HELL is everyone underrating GSPs striking so much? Its really starting ot make me mad. There's no way Penn is a better striker than GSP. No possible way. Better boxer maybe, but in no way a better striker


GSP is a great striker and people are underrating him, also GSP is fukn awesome to watch on the ground, and to say he is just gonna lnp is an insult to the debatable #1 P4P in the world. And regardless of how determined BJ is, that doesn't mean that his cardio might give out


----------



## ryano1985 (Jun 17, 2008)

lay and pray? i dont care if you think he will win or not.. gsp, win or lose, is an amazing fighter.. he deserves more credit than that. as far as who will take this fight i see penn takin but i also think it will be close


----------



## Alex_DeLarge (Sep 5, 2006)

Why would his bar go down? BJ is the most loved and overrated fighter on this forum.


----------



## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Let me ask you, you're part of the few people that still think BJ's loss was controversial right?


----------



## simtom (Oct 23, 2007)

Since their last fight BJ has improved.. But GSP's improved wayyyy more! It'll either be GSP decision, or tko in 4th or 5th round. GSP will push the pace too much for BJ and even with his improved cardio he wont be able to handle it in the late rounds


----------



## Rygu (Jul 21, 2008)

I can't see GSP taking BJ down and just laying on him, he likes to elbow a lot but will keep them short and crisp to avoid the armbars i would think. Having said that, he has to take him down first and thats rather hard. 

I believe BJ is better with the hands but GSP has some badass kicks in his arsenal, repeated body and leg kicks would be a good gameplan imo.

I would worry though is i was GSP about BJ's hands...everyone in his camp are saying how good they've gotten and at 170 theres gonna be some power behind em. 

If BJ has trained to go 5 rounds and it goes 5 I like his chances in the end.


----------



## Couchwarrior (Jul 13, 2007)

There's no way for GSP to beat Penn. BJ has by far the best striking in MMA, and boxing too for that matter, he'd KO Mayweather in a heartbeat. And he can rotate all his joints 720 degrees without using his hands, so there's no way he would ever be submitted either.

Many people don't know, but the mammoths became extinct when BJ was hungry once. It was after eating all those mammoths that he became a little chubby, but now that he's recently lost a bit of that body fat, he's became a cardio machine with an infinite gas tank.



jdun11 said:


> If laying on someone for 3 rounds, trying to hurt them but not doing so is winning a title fight than maybe GSP can win. But thats his only chance.


Don't worry, that's not winning a title fight. You'd have to do it for 5 rounds to do that. :thumbsup:

...
If GSP wins this fight I'm worried that half of this board is going to join Heaven's Gate or something.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

Lol its not like GSP is some scrub. Even though GSP isnt better at bjj he can still submit him. Also GSP has more then a punchers chance so i think your really not looking at this realistically. When GSP wrestles him down he can easiley gnp his way to victory. Quit looking at their skill set as if it were a game. Its a fight a good bjj guys can get subd and a good striker can get knocked out.


----------



## dontazo (Feb 29, 2008)

ye i agre. but i dont see gsp trading with bj


----------



## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

GSP will win this fight... he will outstrike and out wrestle BJ... I give BJ the edge only in submissions and he will NOT catch GSP.

For those of you that know that you may as well let the BJ fans have their fantasies that their little champion is so unstoppable.
I hope GSP crushes him, then he returns to LW just get beaten by Kenflo or Sanchez.


----------



## FunkYou (Apr 22, 2007)

GSP and BJ are very evenly matched in this fight. I would say that GSP is slight favourite especially as he is more of a natural WW that Penn. What makes GSP so good isn't necessarily that he is the best at any particular element of MMA but that he puts all the elements together so well. 

He isn't a great striker but he does use a wide variety of strikes and uses them to set up his takedowns well. When he is just trying to strike he can get caught in the pocket with no head movement. If he does that against Penn he will get knocked out. 

As for Jdun's assertion that all he can do is LnP to win i find that hard to believe. When has he ever LnP'd his way to a win? He passes guard well and inflicts damage and goes for subs. The only reason he may not be as effective this time is that Penn is great at neutralising a guy from his back to get stood back up again. If this does happen it would be just as much Penn's fault as GSP's. 

I prefer Penn as a fighter and would be happy if he won. It would be better for the UFC in general if GSP wins and so I would be happy for this result as well. To say that either of them will easily beat the other or doesn't stand a chance at winning is just a bit blind IMO. I do hope you aren't going to do another disappearing act like you did after the shogun Forrest fight?


----------



## plazzman (Mar 29, 2007)

Wow, there's never really a middle ground when discussing either BJ or GSP, is there?

It's quite sad, really :dunno:


----------



## RushFan (Aug 25, 2007)

BJ vs GSP is such an exciting fight because both fighters are so well rounded and both present a fresh challenge to their opponent. 
BJ is quicker, has better stand up and has better BJJ than GSP's most recent challengers being Fitch, Serra and Hughes.
Conversely, GSP is stronger, has dominant wrestling, reach and better striking than BJ's most recent challengers Sherk and Stevenson.
Who knows which way the fight will go?

I think GSP deserves to be the favourite in this fight. He is an established WW, possessing supreme wrestling and destructive GnP (lol at Jdun's "LnP" comment). That said, there are a multitude of ways that BJ could produce an upset. 
I can't wait to see this fight.:drool01:


----------



## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

never know


----------



## AmRiT (Apr 23, 2007)

I kinda agree with this post. I watched the first fight again and Gsp's face looked a mess and penn looked scratch free. I think Bj has more tools to finish this particular fight but then again you never know


----------



## Mc19 (Jul 6, 2006)

I think its ridiculous how everybody thinks BJ is a God of some sort. He apparently has the best striking, best Jitz, Hes the best ever according to half the people of this forum. Hes been outstriked on the feet before and beaten on the ground. Despite his new work ethic, his conditioning is not even close to what GSP's is, and people think its going to be like the first round of the last fight but for the whole fight this time. craziness.


----------



## The Finisher (Mar 23, 2008)

Alex_DeLarge said:


> Why would his bar go down? BJ is the most loved and overrated fighter on this forum.


Overrated... Hardly

Once BJ beats GSP, nobody will even think that.


----------



## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

Its pretty funny to see all the BJ hate on this forum. I really like both of these guys, but I like BJ a bit more because he is more exciting to watch. I don't think GSP's kicks are going to be effective enough for him to take the beating he took in the first fight, so I'm looking for GSP to take it to the ground. Once there it will be a matter of him holding BJ down, because he will get swept and having BJ in a mount is pretty much death. So I'm going to side with the idea that GSP's best shot is to hold BJ down. That is not to say LnP though, GSP has some sick GnP skills. Overall it will be a candidate for FOTY '09. 

BJ wins by mounted triangle (brazilian teabag) 2nd round.


----------



## Mc19 (Jul 6, 2006)

TeamNogpwns said:


> Its pretty funny to see all the BJ hate on this forum.


BJ Hate!!!! you clearly havn't been on this forum long. Hes like a God on this forum.


----------



## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

Come on, jdun11! You're gonna jinx BJ, just like you jinxed Koscheck and Fitch when you predicted they'd beat GSP. Remember?


----------



## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

Mc19 said:


> BJ Hate!!!! you clearly havn't been on this forum long. Hes like a God on this forum.


You're right, I haven't been on this forum very long. I really think this fight can go so many different ways that it's hard to make a prediction. I'm going to stick with BJ winning this fight by Sub, but I'll be glued to the T.V. that night and enjoy the fight no matter what happens.


----------



## demoman993 (Apr 8, 2007)

Some people are GSP huggers and some people are GJ huggers on this forum, that's just how its gonna be.
I'm a GSP hugger for sure, I like BJ quite a bit but I don't think BJ is going to have the answer for GSP's takedowns. Standup BJ is gonna have the edge unless he's out of shape but in regards to takedowns and GnP GSP is going to dominate BJ without any doubts.
GSP has to stay out of BJ's guard when he's on top and he'll be perfectly fine. Either way I see this one being a long exciting fight, not a LnP like a few people have mentioned. Name a few fights where BJ and GSP were boring fighters? I can't think of too many, and everyone is prone to at least one stinker.


----------



## BazDaManUk (May 27, 2007)

I want to watch the first fight again, haven't seen it in a while, someone pm me a link I can't find it


----------



## MJB23 (Jan 26, 2007)

BazDaManUk said:


> I want to watch the first fight again, haven't seen it in a while, someone pm me a link I can't find it


Go to mmalinker.com I'm sure they have it there.


----------



## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

Michael Carson said:


> You mean by getting himself injured while only being a few seconds from putting Hughes away until the bell saved him. Then starting the next round injured and not being able to do anything, even defend himself.
> 
> Yeah, I guess that could happen.


All I hear is whaa whaa whaa when people bring up that injury. Hey guess what, BJ even admits *he* lost because he did not come in shape to fight Hughes and injured himself, why can't his *fans* get over it?


----------



## tasshal (Oct 1, 2006)

You guys cna debate all you want, there are questions that will only be answered on that day:
How is Bj's cardio?
What is gsp's gameplan? Will his ego lead him into trying to beat bj in bjj?(huge mistake)
Will bj go to a standup gameplan(50-50 imo) or try to take gsp down(not gonna happen)?


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

GSP is going to tire him out and finish him. Seriously, their first fight was GSP fighting with one eye and he still managed to win. Throw in the fact that Georges has gotten so much better, and you have a convincing victory for GSP. I like Penn way more, and am not a fan of GSP, but the guy is excellent, especially right now. Look at what he did to Jon Fitch. Fitch is a better fighter than Penn at WW, and GSP ate his lunch with seemingly ease.


----------



## TERMINATOR (Jul 6, 2008)

:thumbsup:


Damone said:


> GSP is going to tire him out and finish him. Seriously, their first fight was GSP fighting with one eye and he still managed to win. Throw in the fact that Georges has gotten so much better, and you have a convincing victory for GSP. I like Penn way more, and am not a fan of GSP, but the guy is excellent, especially right now. Look at what he did to Jon Fitch. Fitch is a better fighter than Penn at WW, and GSP ate his lunch with seemingly ease.


So so very true:thumbsup:


----------



## Walker (May 27, 2007)

First off can the term "nut-hugger", "ballwasher" and other stupid ass little names to call others finally be dropped? 

Nope- I didn't think so but I had to try- *EVERYONE* on this forum hugs on someone's nuts and it's comical to me that when refering to other fans they use the term derogatorily because someone else is a fan of that fighter. But when they are licking their own fighter's sack- it's out of respect for their abilities- whatever it's getting old.


With this fight to say that GSP will only use "lay n pray" is ridiculous. Seriously- GSP won't use GnP, drop elbows, throw punches while in a dominate position or continue to work for a better position while on the ground? That's absolutely crazy to think he'd be content to lay n pray.

I think BJ is completely motivated for this fight and his gas tank will be full but I do think GSP with his pace will still wear him down, if the striking game is not working out he will use it to set up a take down and pound on BJ while working for a better position. GSP's BJJ has improved since their first fight, they way he sets up his takedowns(which are incredible by themselves) has improved and they way he uses his stand-up has improved.

Also you have to factor in Greg Jackson preparing GSP for this fight. People keep saying "oh yeah this time BJ will be ready"- no shit huh? You really don't think GSP will be ready? GSP wants to prove something just as much as BJ, he has a MUCH better camp and coach and he's learned from the Serra I fight. 

GSP got poked in the eye early in their first fight and still rebonded to win. This time he will be more aware of BJ's striking and be better prepared for it. Like I said earlier even if that's not working he will take BJ down and pound on him.

Screw lay n pray- GSP will take this fight- it will be super-competitive and a kickass fight but my money will be on GSP with no reservations.​


----------



## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

Walker said:


> First off can the term "nut-hugger", "ballwasher" and other stupid ass little names to call others finally be dropped?
> 
> Nope- I didn't think so but I had to try- *EVERYONE* on this forum hugs on someone's nuts and it's comical to me that when refering to other fans they use the term derogatorily because someone else is a fan of that fighter. But when they are licking their own fighter's sack- it's out of respect for their abilities- whatever it's getting old.
> 
> ...


you sir will be much sadder than the day you found out Oklahoma got to play Florida for the title game and all of Texas had to cry themselves to sleep.


----------



## Walker (May 27, 2007)

TeamNogpwns said:


> you sir will be much sadder than the day you found out Oklahoma got to play Florida for the title game and all of Texas had to cry themselves to sleep.


:bored02:

Nice try though.​


----------



## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

I have GSP. He's gonna do what it takes and just tire him out, maybe even a late finish. BJ is gonna be competetive from start to gassing though, so he could pull off the upset if GSP is not careful.


----------



## sk double i (Apr 13, 2007)

TraMaI said:


> seriously why the HELL is everyone underrating GSPs striking so much? Its really starting ot make me mad. There's no way Penn is a better striker than GSP. No possible way. Better boxer maybe, but in no way a better striker


GSP's striking is very overated IMO. He looked great in his last few fights but they were against ground guys...

GSP's strength is NOT striking. It's his speed and power. He's tight, get gets in and out very quick and puts together decent combinations. The reason why GSP is so good is bc if he does ever fight a good striker, he's able to take them down to the mat and work his GNP. He will have a tought time against bc he's the only guy with better striking and good td.


----------



## Bazza89 (Dec 31, 2006)

I'm honestly undecided on this fight TBH.

I think BJ's slightly the better MMArtist and has the perfedt style to beat GSP (heavy hands, great TDD and a dangerous guard) but GSP's a natural WW and a better WW than BJ.

I could see BJ winning by mounting GSP and catching a RNC (either by hurting him standing or sweeping him to get there) or maybe winning the first three rounds and then holding on in the last two.

I could see GSP winning by GNPing a gassed BJ and TKOing him in the later rounds or winning a clearcut decision by maintaining top position and staying fairly active.

I just don't know but I'm gonna go with BJ just cos I like him more. Won't be betting on it though TBH.

Oh, and to the person that asked earlier. There is a lot of BJ hate on this forum but there's a lot of "nuthugging" aswell. There both kind of annoying cos it's hard to have a good discussion about BJ - GSP when there's no real "middle ground" amongst a lot of members.


----------



## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

sk double i said:


> GSP's striking is very overated IMO. He looked great in his last few fights but they were against ground guys...
> 
> GSP's strength is NOT striking. It's his speed and power. He's tight, get gets in and out very quick and puts together decent combinations. The reason why GSP is so good is bc if he does ever fight a good striker, he's able to take them down to the mat and work his GNP. He will have a tought time against bc he's the only guy with better striking and good td.


I wonder how long GSP will take to get frustrated from BJ stuffing his TD's with his flexibility and ability to scramble to his feet from impossible angles. That is another element to this fight, possibly the best wrestler in MMA vs possibly the best TDD.


----------



## drockh (Nov 17, 2006)

If it were the old BJ i'd pick GSP. The new BJ is much more focused. I would definately give the striking advantage to BJ in this one. I think it will be a close fight in the end but i give the edge to BJ.


----------



## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

Close fight, but I give the edge to GSP because of......well, you know.

I can't neg rep jdun because I continue to be hypnotized by his avy.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

plazzman said:


> Wow, there's never really a middle ground when discussing either BJ or GSP, is there?
> 
> It's quite sad, really :dunno:


Yea you either have to think BJ is a overrated tubby lazy baby.

Or GSP is a boring lay and pray artist who isn't that good standing.

But what's confusing to me is I think BJ is a hugely talented LW with some gas tank issues who can beat almost anyone under 170.

And I think GSP is the best P4P fighter who has good stand up, very good GnP, and excellent wrestling. However he at times struggles in good guards.

So do I have to pick one to rip on until after UFC 94 Plazz?


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

Mc19 said:


> I think its ridiculous how everybody thinks BJ is a God of some sort. He apparently has the best striking, best Jitz, Hes the best ever according to half the people of this forum. Hes been outstriked on the feet before and beaten on the ground. Despite his new work ethic, his conditioning is not even close to what GSP's is, and people think its going to be like the first round of the last fight but for the whole fight this time. craziness.


BJ is agreat fighter, but maybe you shoudl read the forum more...even the BJ nuthuggers admit that he is no god. 



Mc19 said:


> BJ Hate!!!! you clearly havn't been on this forum long. Hes like a God on this forum.


Yeah...there is tons of it. Mainly due to unrealistic fans though. 



Damone said:


> GSP is going to tire him out and finish him. Seriously, their first fight was GSP fighting with one eye and he still managed to win. Throw in the fact that Georges has gotten so much better, and you have a convincing victory for GSP. I like Penn way more, and am not a fan of GSP, but the guy is excellent, especially right now. Look at what he did to Jon Fitch. Fitch is a better fighter than Penn at WW, and GSP ate his lunch with seemingly ease.


GSP fought with one eye for like 2 minutes. People are blowing that out of proportion. His eye was fine after the first round. Other then the blood in it there wasn't a problem.

I see this fight being similar to their first one too though....Both guys have improved drastically. GSP probably more so, but he wasn't as good as BJ in the first fight. They are very evenly matched. I see GSP getting stuffed on his first few attempt to take BJ to the mat, but that will tire BJ out. I say GSP get shim down towards the end of the 2nd and does little to nothing. BJ can win this fight from his back....will he? Doubtful, but he could. BJ has some of the slickest BJJ in the UFC. He is very patient and strategic with it and makes no wasted movements on the mat. 

I love this fight and how it sets up, but I see BJ being an underdog in it. GSP is just really versatile. Setting up for sprawls to stuff takedowns as good as his will take away from the striking advantage that BJ has. And may allow GSP to work a little bit from the feet. But once BJ thinks GSP is going to stay there he could utilize a takedown. There are so many possible outcomes for these two guys when they step in the octagon. 

But like PLazz said earlier...there is no middle ground for the most part. 

I want BJ to win, but I can't predict that to happen...not right now at least.


----------



## joppp (Apr 21, 2007)

I feel like I'm on a middle ground, leaning towards GSP (while admit that BJ has the ability to pull of the upset anytime before he gets tired).


----------



## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

joppp brings up a question that I've seen posed many times in this thread and in other threads pertaining to BJ fighting: Which BJ will show up? fat lazy BJ who tanks, or in shape, focused, motivated, MMA (demi)god BJ?


----------



## capcom1 (Dec 31, 2006)

swpthleg said:


> joppp brings up a question that I've seen posed many times in this thread and in other threads pertaining to BJ fighting: Which BJ will show up? fat lazy BJ who tanks, or in shape, focused, motivated, MMA (demi)god BJ?


it wont matter whatever one shows up , if GSP wins all the BJ fans will still find something to whine about


----------



## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> BJ is agreat fighter, but maybe you shoudl read the forum more...even the BJ nuthuggers admit that he is no god.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very good analysis, can I borrow you're crystal ball for the Wand/Page fight???


----------



## drockh (Nov 17, 2006)

capcom1 said:


> it wont matter whatever one shows up , if GSP wins all the BJ fans will still find something to whine about


And if BJ wins by KO it wont be a lucky punch and be compared to Serra?


----------



## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

People need to stop saying BJ has better striking than GSP. He has better boxing but not better striking.


----------



## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

I think BJ has better boxing and head movement, GSP has better kicks. I was kind of suprised by BJ's knee that layed Sherk out, but then I remembered what he did to Din a while back. Overall standup I would give a very slight advantage to BJ, but GSP has dangerous kicks and I believe he has a reach advantage as well. Both have good GnP, with BJ having Kenflo like cutting abilities with the elbows.


----------



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Ok guys,let me defend my drunk post a little clearer.

GSP is a good striker but when he faces someone that is also a good striker he is a bit timid. After Matt friggin Serra KO'd him he has been very weary of using his standup. Yes, he used it against Fitch but Fitch's striking is pretty weak.

Do you GSP fans or fans in general really think a guy that was afraid to strike with Matt Serra is gonna stand and bang with BJ Penn? No, of course not. I see him trying to mix up the strikes and TD's early on BJ is gonna be tough to takedown, even for GSP. So I predict BJ winning round 1.

Round 2 I see GSP being a little more frantic with his takedown attempts. Im sure he will finally secure one and get BJ down. This is where im predicting GSP will get tied up like a pretzel. BJ will be fresh and GSP wont be grappling the same BJ that was fat and tired in the first fight. I think BJ gets him in some sort of choke and finishes the fight.

But the whole point of my thread is that BJ has more ways to win the fight. I dont see GSP knocking BJ out, nullifying his guard enough to do serious damage, or submitting him. The only way he wins is with his wrestling. His size and wrestling are his only tools to win the fight.

The thing is, those are very good tools to win a boring decisions against a guy with a great guard. That is why I will not bet on this fight. Im afraid GSp is gonna resort to lay and pray. In no way his Georges a lay and pray fighter, the dudes dynamic. But against BJ, its really his only way to win.


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> GSP fought with one eye for like 2 minutes. People are blowing that out of proportion. His eye was fine after the first round. Other then the blood in it there wasn't a problem.


Is that why he spent the night in the hospital after the fight? Is that why he said he saw 2 BJ Penn's?


----------



## capcom1 (Dec 31, 2006)

drockh said:


> And if BJ wins by KO it wont be a lucky punch and be compared to Serra?



dont believe in lucky punches , GSP got clocked good


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

He got clocked, like, 20 times and still didn't go out.


----------



## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Serra/GSP 1 was no fluke, just a good night for Serra and a bad one for GSP.


----------



## lpbigd4444 (Oct 1, 2008)

BJ will not submit GSP cuz even though Bj has great bjj so does GSP and his sub defense is very good. BJ is a better boxer but GSP is more athletic and he is also the best wrestler in UFC and he has ferocious GnP.


----------



## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

This ^ ^


----------



## BlackBeltKiller (Dec 22, 2008)

GSP is scared like always ....giving to much respect to unworthy opponents...thats why he lost to Matt Huges...BJ is gonna own GSP like he did to Jens Pulver...


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

Since when the hell was Matt Hughes an unworthy opponent, especially when he was seen as the top guy in the WW division (Since Penn left and went to go fight in the MW division)? If anything, GSP was the unworthy opponent, since all he did was beat Karo and Hieron.


----------



## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

Wow, people keep getting their panties in a twist over the Lay N Pray comment.

People, he said that due to the fact that BJ is better than GSP at everything besides wrestlig, that LnP will be the only way for him to win. It only makes sense. 

If he count outstrike him, can't GnP him, can't sub him, how is he going to win besides a LnP decision?

I'm not necessarily saying the TS is correct (though I definitely lean towards his direction), I'm simply saying that given the facts he laid out in the beginning of the thread, you can't help but come to a slightly LnP decision.


----------



## 2-D (Sep 9, 2007)

i think the odds go in GSP's favor in this fight it seemed like after the Serra fight he mainly used his striking to set up takedowns and would rather go for the finish on the ground. after the finch fight he seems to be getting more confident in his standing again. on the feet GSP has the advantage with reach and in the clinch. 

i think BJ has a decent shot of knocking him out if he can get in on him but i think it's more likely that if BJ wins it will be by sub in one of the first 3 rounds after that with all the sweat it will be hard to catch GSP in something


----------



## Chrisl972 (Oct 5, 2006)

2-D said:


> i think the odds go in GSP's favor in this fight it seemed like after the Serra fight he mainly used his striking to set up takedowns and would rather go for the finish on the ground. after the finch fight he seems to be getting more confident in his standing again. on the feet GSP has the advantage with reach and in the clinch.
> 
> *i think BJ has a decent shot of knocking him out if he can get in on him but i think it's more likely that if BJ wins it will be by sub in one of the first 3 rounds after that with all the sweat it will be hard to catch GSP in something*


You're only right when talking about a joint lock of any kind. If BJ decides to go for a choke, it's much easier to get after they are all sweaty.


----------



## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

This might be kind of a random thought, but does anyone here think BJ and the Rubber Guard would be devastating? The guy has inhuman flexibility and a knowledge of BJJ that most people can only dream about. I've been reading so many posts of people saying BJ isn't a threat off his back offensively, so what if he were to use the rubber guard in the way that guys like Hazelett do. I can see BJ wtfpwn most anyone with Omoplata's trainsitioned into armbars and chokes.


----------



## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

I am continually amazed by BJ's flexibility, he's like a little stretchy bendy Gumby type toy, but I'm still going with GSP. Not without a war though, I'm not suggesting he'll walk through BJ.


----------



## ufcrules (Jan 11, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Go ahead flame me all you want but its true. The only gsP wins is by lay and pray.
> 
> Other than wrestling, what exactly is GSP beterr then BJ at? BJJ? No! Striking? No!
> 
> ...



Watch the fight and learn MEATHEAD!


----------



## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

haha I cant wait for this fight already so many big arguments. I know its going to be an awesome fights. 

You guys should try and be like me being a BJ Penn fan from Canada trying to even convince people its even a 50-50 is impossible when I really think BJ is going to take this fight, even though it could definetly go either way.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

The biggest reason why GSP won the last fight was his pace, and I think that if he can force BJ into a bout of conditioning he'll win. I think leg kicks will be helpful in avoiding BJ's jab, and prove effective in wearing him down.


----------



## somethingclever (Apr 8, 2007)

I agree with most of what has been said in this thread, but I wanted to add a few comments:

NO WAY will Georges stand with BJ, not after the beating he took trying to do it in their first fight, and now watching what BJ did to Sherk with that jab...

GSP could absolutely finish BJ by TKO on the ground, anyone who denies GSP's ground control and power is kidding themselves.

Having said that, BJ wins in round 4 by RNC.


----------



## Davisty69 (May 24, 2007)

ufcrules said:


> Watch the fight and learn MEATHEAD!


Wow... is that the best you can do? Solid argument though :thumbsdown:


----------



## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

ZZtigerZZ81 said:


> BJ is agreat fighter, but maybe you shoudl read the forum more...even the BJ nuthuggers admit that he is no god.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


from personal experience, you don't recover from an eye poke. Not in the time a fight takes. even a light poke and you've got your eye watering all night distracting you and refracting the image. in your eye. This was a hard poke and there's no way it recovered pretty much at all.

BJ does not have the tools to beat GSP. GSP at a minimum neutralizes anything BJ has but GSP has better wrestling and can set the pace. BJ doesn't know how to slow the pace so around round 3 going at GSP's he'll be gasping for air and swallowing hard. at that point he's GSP's bitch.


----------



## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

69nites said:


> from personal experience, you don't recover from an eye poke. Not in the time a fight takes. even a light poke and you've got your eye watering all night distracting you and refracting the image. in your eye. This was a hard poke and there's no way it recovered pretty much at all.
> 
> BJ does not have the tools to beat GSP. GSP at a minimum neutralizes anything BJ has but GSP has better wrestling and can set the pace. BJ doesn't know how to slow the pace so around round 3 going at GSP's he'll be gasping for air and swallowing hard. at that point he's GSP's bitch.


Pure poetry.


----------



## SideWays222 (Sep 9, 2008)

69nites said:


> from personal experience, you don't recover from an eye poke. Not in the time a fight takes. even a light poke and you've got your eye watering all night distracting you and refracting the image. in your eye. This was a hard poke and there's no way it recovered pretty much at all.
> 
> BJ does not have the tools to beat GSP. GSP at a minimum neutralizes anything BJ has but GSP has better wrestling and can set the pace. BJ doesn't know how to slow the pace so around round 3 going at GSP's he'll be gasping for air and swallowing hard. at that point he's GSP's bitch.


agreed 100%

Bj's cardio sucks and will always suck. It takes years to have great cardio and bj do sent have it.


----------



## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

69nites said:


> from personal experience, you don't recover from an eye poke. Not in the time a fight takes. even a light poke and you've got your eye watering all night distracting you and refracting the image. in your eye. This was a hard poke and there's no way it recovered pretty much at all.
> 
> BJ does not have the tools to beat GSP. GSP at a minimum neutralizes anything BJ has but GSP has better wrestling and can set the pace. BJ doesn't know how to slow the pace so around round 3 going at GSP's he'll be gasping for air and swallowing hard. at that point he's GSP's bitch.


BJ has all the tools to beat GSP, including some of the best TDD in the game. GSP honks are stuck on the hope that BJ will come into the fight with poor conditioning. I doubt GSP will want to eat too many punches on the feet as his chin is very suspect, and no I don't think Serra was a fluke. I'm not saying that BJ wins this fight easily, but give him some respect for what he brings into it. I guess if you're Canadian or French you can nuthug GSP all you want though:thumb01:


----------



## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

A lot of us who are thinking GSP will take it are neither Canadian nor French.

There's something under your sig that's revealing, though.


----------



## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

TeamNogpwns said:


> BJ has all the tools to beat GSP, including some of the best TDD in the game. GSP honks are stuck on the hope that BJ will come into the fight with poor conditioning. I doubt GSP will want to eat too many punches on the feet as his chin is very suspect, and no I don't think Serra was a fluke. I'm not saying that BJ wins this fight easily, but give him some respect for what he brings into it. I guess if you're Canadian or French you can nuthug GSP all you want though:thumb01:


GSP statistically is extremely successful taking BJ down bassically at will.

I'm pretty sure in the last fight he ended up successful on 75ish% of his takedowns.

BJ can defend a single hopping around like a monkey but when someone drops for a double he hits the ehfin mat every time.


----------



## TeamNogpwns (Dec 5, 2008)

Like I have said all along this fight is going to be incredible. Yeah you're right BJ could be on his back quite a bit, and thats how the TS said GSP would win, by LnP. I disagree with that and would say that this fight will be an up and down kind of fight. BJ has some pretty damn good ground skills along with some nice boxing, so I thought saying he doesnt have the tools to beat GSP was a little off.


----------



## Walker (May 27, 2007)

I still think it's funny that people say GSP has a suspect chin when the punch that got him in trouble and wobbled him against Serra was a shot behind his right ear.​


----------



## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

yah i dunno about GSPs chin the serra fight was the only time it has really showed weakness and he ended up taking a lot of shots and was never really out. I would say GSP has a good chin but BJ has a great chin


----------



## FunkYou (Apr 22, 2007)

Walker said:


> I still think it's funny that people say GSP has a suspect chin when the punch that got him in trouble and wobbled him against Serra was a shot behind his right ear.​


These crazy Canadians have their chins in wierd places.


----------



## r00kie (Jul 8, 2008)

I'll pop this thread up after the fight, to see how those statements about BJ dominating GSP in all MMA aspects are purely from extreme nuthuggery.

And let's set the fact straight

Athletism
Pace - GSP
Speed - GSP
Strenght - GSP
Flexibility standing (TDD) - Even
Flexibility on ground - BJ

Abilities
Kicks (knees ) - GSP
Boxing - BJ
Wrestling - GSP
GnP - GSP
BJJ - BJ (although GSP is getting to it)
TDS - GSP
Chin - BJ


----------



## M.C (Jul 5, 2008)

Walker said:


> I still think it's funny that people say GSP has a suspect chin when the punch that got him in trouble and wobbled him against Serra was a shot behind his right ear.​


All the nipple tweaking adjusted his chin to the back of his head.

GSP can win this fight, but can't can't KO/TKO/sub him. If he wins, he'll win the same way he did the first time. He'll hold B.J for the rounds and win a decision. GSP has really good ground and pound, but can he use all those great tools on the ground against a guard as mean as B.J's? I don't think so. I can't see B.J subbing GSP from his back, as B.J isn't known for doing so. He will definitely control GSP from his back, though.

In the end, I see B.J having more tools to beat GSP. GSP can win, but only by a holding B.J on the ground, which is exactly what the first post is made to say.


----------



## burke_p (Oct 15, 2007)

great now greg jackson is going to let him know.


----------



## enufced904 (Jul 17, 2008)

I think it's going to be tough for both fighters.. They've improved a lot since their last match up so the only thing we can really do is wait and see what happens. 1 more month.


----------



## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

enufced904 said:


> I think it's going to be tough for both fighters.. They've improved a lot since their last match up so the only thing we can really do is wait and see what happens. 1 more month.


pretty much, its like a dead even fight and half the people on this forum are gonna be braggin like crazy after and the other half are gonna probably gonna be makin excuses. We just gotta wait to see which half does which, either way its definetly the most anticipated fight for me.


----------



## rcboxer1 (Nov 28, 2008)

I can honestly say I have no idea what's going to happen in this fight!! That's why I am SO excited to watch it:thumb02:


----------



## Suvaco (Mar 31, 2007)

Getting you guys to think about this fight logically is like trying to teach a monkey to speak Japanese. The main points made in this thread are "BJ is teh pwnage", and "GSP is gonna kill that fatty lulz". Apart from the occasional thoughtful post, this thread makes my soul hurt.


----------



## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

enufced904 said:


> I think it's going to be tough for both fighters.. They've improved a lot since their last match up so the only thing we can really do is wait and see what happens. 1 more month.


I don't think BJ has really changed anything but his conditioning since their last fight. His BJJ is good but the same. His striking is decent but really the same as well. And that isn't even proven at 170. He bulked up and could very well gas early only further proving he doesn't belong at 170.

GSP has made huge advancements in every aspect of the game and it should really show in what will be a dominant performance against bj penn.


wawaweewa said:


> Getting you guys to think about this fight logically is like trying to teach a monkey to speak Japanese. The main points made in this thread are "BJ is teh pwnage", and "GSP is gonna kill that fatty lulz". Apart from the occasional thoughtful post, this thread makes my soul hurt.


this is like thread 40 on the subject. Most people already did a detailed breakdown of the fight (I know I have) at this point I'm just responding to specific points.


----------



## FunkYou (Apr 22, 2007)

Wawaweewa said:


> Getting you guys to think about this fight logically is like trying to teach a monkey to speak Japanese. The main points made in this thread are "BJ is teh pwnage", and "GSP is gonna kill that fatty lulz". Apart from the occasional thoughtful post, this thread makes my soul hurt.


Shut Up! Your just a BJ / GSP (delete as appropriate) nuthugger !!1!!!!1


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Wawaweewa said:


> Getting you guys to think about this fight logically is like trying to teach a monkey to speak Japanese. The main points made in this thread are "BJ is teh pwnage", and "GSP is gonna kill that fatty lulz". Apart from the occasional thoughtful post, this thread makes my soul hurt.


I think you Plazz and I should start a club that actually talks about this fight without the crazy nuthugging.


----------



## FunkYou (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> I think you Plazz and I should start a club that actually talks about this fight without the crazy nuthugging.


Its only going to get worse. the fight is still some distance away. Hopefully by the time of the fight the "nuthuggers" will have burnt themselves out.


----------



## Mc19 (Jul 6, 2006)

TeamNogpwns said:


> I doubt GSP will want to eat too many punches on the feet as his chin is very suspect, :


 HAHA, yeah he has a glass chin even though he took about 20 solid punches to the chin and still didn't go out. This is such a stupid statement.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

It's amazing in between his fights BJ is one of my favorite fighters but when his fights get closer I start disliking him because his fans annoy the crap out of me I can't cheer for him.

Now GSP fans are terrible to but ever since I've been on this forum BJ fans and I have had issues getting along.


----------



## FunkYou (Apr 22, 2007)

bbjd7 said:


> It's amazing in between his fights BJ is one of my favorite fighters but when his fights get closer I start disliking him because his fans annoy the crap out of me I can't cheer for him.
> 
> Now GSP fans are terrible to but ever since I've been on this forum BJ fans and I have had issues getting along.


BJ has been around longer. GSP fans are fast approaching the same level of blind devotion at the expense of logic.


----------



## hastie27 (Dec 22, 2008)

It will go down like this.GSP will use his wrestling 2 take himdown, b.j will either submiit him from his back or out box him and win by tko


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

cezwan said:


> whenever i say this i get neg repped hard but honestly, BJ Penn is overrated.


Agreed, he is overrated. When's the last time Bj submitted someone from his back?


----------



## Hellboy (Mar 15, 2008)

George is going to dominate this fight. But if BJ's cardio is as good as he says it is, you can't count him out. 

I'm still going with a GSP TKO in the 4th or 5th rounds.


----------



## hastie27 (Dec 22, 2008)

not sure but thats my prediction anyway GSP will lay nd pray 4 5 rnds


----------



## TraMaI (Dec 10, 2007)

gSP by TKO 2nd. Seriously. I'd like to see GSP come out and head kick BJ in oblivion so all his nutthuggers would STFU, but that probably wont happen


----------



## Suvaco (Mar 31, 2007)

69nites said:


> this is like thread 40 on the subject. Most people already did a detailed breakdown of the fight (I know I have) at this point I'm just responding to specific points.


Your posts weren't among the ones that hurt my soul.



FunkYou said:


> Shut Up! Your just a BJ / GSP (delete as appropriate) nuthugger !!1!!!!1


I actually hang on to BJ's nuts pretty firmly. I'm just not an idiot.



bbjd7 said:


> I think you Plazz and I should start a club that actually talks about this fight without the crazy nuthugging.


We'll meet in the PlazzVan.


----------



## TheNegation (Jun 11, 2007)

GSP is going to TKO a somewhat gassed BJ in the later rounds having outwrestled him and worn him out, or at least win a very clear cut decision.

BJ won't submit him, and he won't KO him, he will be outclassed.


----------



## Suvaco (Mar 31, 2007)

TheNegation said:


> GSP is going to TKO a somewhat gassed BJ in the later rounds having outwrestled him and worn him out, or at least win a very clear cut decision.
> 
> BJ won't submit him, and he won't KO him, he will be outclassed.


If BJ gets on top of GSP, he could very well submit or TKO him. Of course, getting on top of GSP isn't easy. I hope this fight is better than the first one, because I'm getting pumped.


----------



## zarny (Mar 4, 2007)

I don't see a need to flame anyone; but I disagree the only way GSP can beat BJ is by LnP.

I actually expect this fight to end similar to how BJ/Hughes II ended; BJ gassed, defenseless and getting his face smashed in.

I agree it's highly unlikely GSP catches BJ in a sub. 

I don't think it is out of the question GSP beats BJ in the stand-up. BJ has quicker hands but GSP has better kicks. If BJ takes a shin off the face he's done just like anyone else.

If you take away the eye poke and clipped nose the stand-up was pretty close in the first fight. GSP had success with leg kicks and I think you'll more of them in the 2nd fight. I certainly think BJ won the stand-up in the 1st fight, but GSP's boxing has gotten much better since then. I think the stand-up in this fight will be a lot closer than many think.

Ultimately though BJ couldn't put GSP away in the 1st fight despite poking his eye and clipping his nose. I don't see him stopping GSP in this fight. 

The longer the fight goes the more time BJ is going to spend on his back. My guess is GSP will employ a similar strategy to the one he used against Serra. Up, down, up, down...he's gonna wear BJ out. 

By the 4th or 5th round BJ will be on fumes and GSP gain a dominant position and finish the fight.

I think it will be a war though and I'm gonna see it live.


----------



## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

if gsp beats him by decision i will forever be on his hater list.

bj is a far superior fighter than gsp, but gsp can win by fighting like a *****.


----------



## rdrush (Mar 5, 2007)

Saying GSP can only win by lay n pray is ridiculous. I don't think he will knock him out or submit him, but he can definetly tko him. It has been acknowledged that he has some of the most devestating ground and pound in MMA, but it has also forgotten that he has one of the best passing games in MMA. It was unbelieveable how easily he was able to advance on Hughes, Serra and Fitch. Admittedly there guards are not as good as BJ's, there still no slouch's on the ground. GSP can definetly get into a dominant position and inflict a lot of damage.

As a GSP fan though, I keep having nightmares about BJ's hand being raised. He has got some heavy hands and good subs. This will be a war I think, your talking about two of the top 4 fighters in the world. It will not be easy for either.

I do think GSP will win though for one major reason: BJ will "not be able to handle his riddum." BJ may have more talent, but he does not encompass all of his skills as well as GSP does, no one does. Like all his other opponents, BJ is going to be on the defense the entire time. He is going to have to play into his game and not be able to inflict his own gameplan. Personally I dont think BJ likes being dominated. In most fights he is controlling the pace because he is just more skilled than the other guy. But in his first fight with GSP and his second fight with Hughes, when he begins to lose the fight he kinda gives up, imo. I think thats a definite possibility for this fight.

People have kept reffering to BJ's jab as a major weapon that will make him the superior striker. But he is not going to enjoy a reach advantage like he did over Sherk and Joe Daddy, so he won't be able to use it as effectively against GSP. Georges can use kicks and his speed to keep the distance and then mix up the tempo with takedowns. I don't see either fighter getting submitted. Both have excellent bjj, with GSP having strength and BJ flexibility.

I hope that made sense, I am pretty blazed writing this. Stoked for the fight though, could be one to remember.


----------



## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

No problem, space out yr paragraphs though, I rarely suffer from tl;dr syndrome and I just got b!tch slapped with it.


----------



## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

xeberus said:


> if gsp beats him by decision i will forever be on his hater list.
> 
> bj is a far superior fighter than gsp, but gsp can win by fighting like a *****.


Yesh, I hate nuthuggers in general, but BJ runs a damn cult. :laugh:


----------



## spaulding91 (Sep 23, 2007)

rdrush said:


> Saying GSP can only win by lay n pray is ridiculous. I don't think he will knock him out or submit him, but he can definetly tko him. It has been acknowledged that he has some of the most devestating ground and pound in MMA, but it has also forgotten that he has one of the best passing games in MMA. It was unbelieveable how easily he was able to advance on Hughes, Serra and Fitch. Admittedly there guards are not as good as BJ's, there still no slouch's on the ground. GSP can definetly get into a dominant position and inflict a lot of damage.
> 
> As a GSP fan though, I keep having nightmares about BJ's hand being raised. He has got some heavy hands and good subs. This will be a war I think, your talking about two of the top 4 fighters in the world. It will not be easy for either.
> 
> ...



yes

and dont forget gsp has an excellent jab as well. also, he has some of the best positioning after takedowns. he either lands in half, or passes almost instantly to half gaurd. from there we will we how much gsp's bjj has improved. 

also, if bj gets up and gets up we will see how his cardio has improved.


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

RIDDIM!!! He cannot maintain GSP RIDDIM!


----------



## Xerxes (Aug 14, 2008)

Ape City said:


> RIDDIM!!! He cannot maintain GSP RIDDIM!


Riddum, please. No need to make this even worse :laugh:


----------



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

ufcrules said:


> Watch the fight and learn MEATHEAD!


Youve been on the forum for over a year and this is the first time ive noticed one of you posts. Your the man bro!


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

xeberus said:


> if gsp beats him by decision i will forever be on his hater list.
> 
> bj is a far superior fighter than gsp, but gsp can win by fighting like a *****.


Penn's an insanely talented fighter, but you can't seriously think he's far superior than GSP. GSP basically came out of nowhere and ruined very good fighters. Look at what he did to Mayhem, Trigg, Hughes the second and third time, Kos and Fitch, now tell me that he's not superior.


----------



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

Damone said:


> Penn's an insanely talented fighter, but you can't seriously think he's far superior than GSP. GSP basically came out of nowhere and ruined very good fighters. Look at what he did to Mayhem, Trigg, Hughes the second and third time, Kos and Fitch, now tell me that he's not superior.


Damone, GSP is a MONSTER! But so is BJ. Its just that Penn gives GSP problems with his skillset. GSP is just gonna hafta try to lay on him. Which could be bad cuz Penn could submit him. And if he stands and bangs with BJ, im positive he is going to get hit behind the ear and BJ will finish him in style. GSP must fight a cautious and tactical fight.

Am I the only one who thinks this is the last fight that GSP wants right now? He didnt look to excited when BJ stepped into the cage calling him out. Im sure he would feel more comfortable fighting any othjer welterweight. ANd I saw in a thread earlier damone that you said Fitch is a better ww than BJ. THat is CRAZY!!! Fitch would get hurt. His wrestling wouldnt be good enough to get BJ down and he would beat him up standing.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Maybe because BJ has done nothing to earn the shot maybe that's why he's not excited to fight him?

GSP could stand with BJ and not get knocked out.

BJ's a very good striker but so is GSP and I think assuming BJ would win striking no matter what is a gross oversimplification.


----------



## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

jdun11 said:


> Damone, GSP is a MONSTER! But so is BJ. Its just that Penn gives GSP problems with his skillset. GSP is just gonna hafta try to lay on him. Which could be bad cuz Penn could submit him. And if he stands and bangs with BJ, im positive he is going to get hit behind the ear and BJ will finish him in style. GSP must fight a cautious and tactical fight.
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks this is the last fight that GSP wants right now? He didnt look to excited when BJ stepped into the cage calling him out. Im sure he would feel more comfortable fighting any othjer welterweight. ANd I saw in a thread earlier damone that you said Fitch is a better ww than BJ. THat is CRAZY!!! Fitch would get hurt. His wrestling wouldnt be good enough to get BJ down and he would beat him up standing.


BJ doesn't submit people from the bottom. He poses GSP no danger while GSP is on top of him and has little to no chance of getting on top of GSP. It would take GSP attempting a sloppy pass and BJ sweeping him. What exactly do you think the chances are of that happening?

Now in rounds 3, 4, and 5 BJ could be in some danger of being sub'd or TKO'd.

Stylistically BJ was at a much larger advantage in their first fight where BJ had such a huge BJJ advantage. In this fight I see GSP having the advantage stylistically because BJ doesn't have the tools to bring GSP into his world, where he's actually the stronger fighter.

GSP sets the pace and GSP determines where this fight takes place.


----------



## MetalMunkey (Oct 14, 2006)

Man, Plazz, Damone, BBJD and Wawa need to get out of here with their logic and reason. This is a WAR thread.


----------



## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

alright so I will agree that GSP has better wrestling strength, speed, agility athletisism and probably more. But the thing about this fight is BJ doesn't have to be better at all aspects of the game. On that night he only has to be better at one thing to beat GSP. He can finish him striking or submit him. Believe me if this fight goes to decision its more than likely going to be GSPs fight, because if BJ is dominating standup or outgrappling he is going to finish this fight where as GSP probably wont. Not saying he cant but I think there is a much better chance of BJ finishing him than GSP finishing BJ. If GSP is controlling the fight he is probably winning a decision, but if BJ is winning the standup decisively GSP is probably going to sleep or possibly getting subd. Either way I still got this fight at 50-50 but ruiting for Bj


----------



## r00kie (Jul 8, 2008)

At the end of the night, 

One of the 2 nuthugger world (GSP, BJ) will be shocked by the outcome of the fight.

I already have an idea of wich one, but I won't repeat again, It appears that you get negative rep if you don't agree with one of those 2 worlds


----------



## steveo412 (Sep 27, 2006)

Just disagree with Damone and when he doesnt say anything back you get a whole whack of reds because he respectfully disagrees with you.


----------



## sarah_gee (Dec 21, 2008)

I've personally seen gsp train and i've spoken to him he has a GREAT attitude... i've seen some previous fights, i honestly don't think BJ is more in shape than GSP is. It might be tight... im a big gsp fan, I think gsp will take this.. maybe with a little challenge but he'll win this 100%.


----------



## UseOf_A_Weapon (Aug 6, 2007)

I think both fighters are pretty much standing on equal ground. as far as striking GSP has better kicks by far. Penn has better boxing (he (t)ko-ed Sherk and no one has done that as far as I know). Penn has better BJJ and GSP has better Wrestling. They both have really good TDD. I give GSP the power/strength advantage and I give Penn the Dexterity and Speed advantage. 

That being said, there is only one way this fight ends:

An astroid strikes the earth at the peak of action and we all die. That or the effin' rapture.


----------



## MLS (Jul 18, 2007)

UseOf_A_Weapon said:


> I think both fighters are pretty much standing on equal ground. as far as striking GSP has better kicks by far. Penn has better boxing *(he (t)ko-ed Sherk and no one has done that as far as I know)*. Penn has better BJJ and GSP has better Wrestling. They both have really good TDD. I give GSP the power/strength advantage and I give Penn the Dexterity and Speed advantage.
> 
> That being said, there is only one way this fight ends:
> 
> An astroid strikes the earth at the peak of action and we all die. That or the effin' rapture.


GSP did.


----------



## sk double i (Apr 13, 2007)

jdun11 said:


> Am I the only one who thinks this is the last fight that GSP wants right now? He didnt look to excited when BJ stepped into the cage calling him out. Im sure he would feel more comfortable fighting any othjer welterweight. ANd I saw in a thread earlier damone that you said Fitch is a better ww than BJ. THat is CRAZY!!! Fitch would get hurt. His wrestling wouldnt be good enough to get BJ down and he would beat him up standing.


I dont think anyone is excited to fight bj penn. Hughes even admitted in his book that he was afraid to fight BJ after watching his fight with GSP bc he knew BJ didnt train at all for that fight.


----------



## tripster (Jun 5, 2006)

*No Doubt*

Hey all!

Haven't been around for a while, too busy but always interested in seeing comments on a GSP fight!

Going to be an interesting fight, no doubt about that. In my mind there is also no doubt who's going to win. BJ is talented, no doubt about that either, but he is fighting an equally talented man. The difference comes down to two aspects:

1. GSP is bigger and stronger.
2. GSP is a master at fight strategy.

My prediction for GSP's fight strategy is leg and body kicks. I expect him to wear BJ down with some heavy kicks to the legs and body.


----------



## Emericanaddict (Dec 31, 2006)

r00kie said:


> At the end of the night,
> 
> One of the 2 nuthugger world (GSP, BJ) will be shocked by the outcome of the fight.
> 
> I already have an idea of wich one, but I won't repeat again, It appears that you get negative rep if you don't agree with one of those 2 worlds


Dude holy shiite...I just thought of a something thats actually possible with both these high calibur fighters man...What and the hell is this forum going to be like if this shit ends up being a draw? 

Dude I dont think I could handle the flame wars if that happened. In fact I want GSP to win so the BJ boys can (well some of them) can calm that shiite down and it'll just be recognized that GSP is better. (Hopefully.) This is one fight I really would not be willing to watch a third part of simply because of the arguments it causes on these boards.


----------



## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

Emericanaddict said:


> Dude holy shiite...I just thought of a something thats actually possible with both these high calibur fighters man...What and the hell is this forum going to be like if this shit ends up being a draw?
> 
> Dude I dont think I could handle the flame wars if that happened. In fact I want GSP to win so the BJ boys can (well some of them) can calm that shiite down and it'll just be recognized that GSP is better. (Hopefully.) This is one fight I really would not be willing to watch a third part of simply because of the arguments it causes on these boards.


as far as the fanboyism goes I don't see GSP's getting any worse since he has nothing to gain in this fight. He's already beaten BJ Penn and even if he hadn't right now he's a WW beating a LW.

bah this is just getting me more pissed off about this matchup being made...


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

MetalMunkey said:


> Man, Plazz, Damone, BBJD and Wawa need to get out of here with their logic and reason. This is a WAR thread.


To be fair Damone is kinda a BJ hater.

No offense man I respect your opinion a ton but you aren't exactly unbiased against BJ


----------



## kilik (Oct 12, 2007)

I have to agree with the OP. If GSP does win then it will most probably be due to him out wrestling BJ for the whole fight. I think BJ will win though.


----------



## Aaronyman (Mar 1, 2007)

it's easy to say 'penn's bjj game is better'...but is it good enough to do anything offensive off the bottom, where he undoubtedly will be eventually? if penn tries getting up from the bottom which he's good at, he's going to get very, very tired....it's probably one of the most taxing things to do

I see this fight being ALOT like the last fight minus the poke in the eye and thus the standup being alot less fun....


----------



## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

One sec....just because GSP dominates position, and doesn't happen to finish BJ, does that mean he used lay n'pray? 
I have never, ever seen GSP lay n' pray. He try to damage his opponent, throws strikes and tries to improve his position the whole time he's down there.


----------



## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

vandalian said:


> One sec....just because GSP dominates position, and doesn't happen to finish BJ, does that mean he used lay n'pray?
> I have never, ever seen GSP lay n' pray. He try to damage his opponent, throws strikes and tries to improve his position the whole time he's down there.


yep. People say he'll have to LnP like BJ is a friggin BJJ wizard off his back and if GSP tries any GnP BJ will instantly sub him...


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> To be fair Damone is kinda a BJ hater.
> 
> No offense man I respect your opinion a ton but you aren't exactly unbiased against BJ


I wouldn't really say I'm a BJ Penn hater. I've said numerous times that I like him better than GSP and feel he's a great, insanely talented fighter. I also own his career collection, and watch it a bunch (His fight with Rodrigo Gracie is mad overlooked. One of his best performances). I love watching the guy fight, but I'm not going to sit there and type up some delusional bullshit about how BJ never loses and he'll run through GSP and such. He's in way over his head here, and will get sent back to the LW division, where he belongs. He's a great LW, and only a good WW. GSP's a great WW.

Also, Penn really isn't a sub wizard off his back. He's looking to neutralize and get back up to his feet. His top game, however, is tremendous.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Damone said:


> I wouldn't really say I'm a BJ Penn hater. I've said numerous times that I like him better than GSP and feel he's a great, insanely talented fighter. I also own his career collection, and watch it a bunch (His fight with Rodrigo Gracie is mad overlooked. One of his best performances). I love watching the guy fight, but I'm not going to sit there and type up some delusional bullshit about how BJ never loses and he'll run through GSP and such. He's in way over his head here, and will get sent back to the LW division, where he belongs. He's a great LW, and only a good WW. GSP's a great WW.
> 
> Also, Penn really isn't a sub wizard off his back. He's looking to neutralize and get back up to his feet. His top game, however, is tremendous.


O I know you aren't a BJ hater but I mean come on now you did pick Joe Stevenson to beat him.:dunno:


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I thought Stevenson would weather the initial storm and win a close decision. I didn't know that Penn would get back to his great self at LW. He looked rather slow against Jens Pulver, who, let's be honest, isn't that good at 155 anymore. Stevenson proved his worth by beating solid LW's, while Penn just beat some 145'er. I didn't know how he'd look against Joe Daddy.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

I understand but you do come off as rough on BJ a lot of the time.


----------



## MetalMunkey (Oct 14, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> To be fair Damone is kinda a BJ hater.
> 
> No offense man I respect your opinion a ton but you aren't exactly unbiased against BJ


Honestly, the only time I felt Damone was hating on BJ was when he fought Joe Daddy. Other than that, I can see where his opinion comes from. I was worried when BJ fought Sherk, but GSP is a whole different animal. I think BJ CAN win the fight, but WILL HE is a completely different question.


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

I wasn't even hating on Penn when he was going to face Stevenson. He really was undeserving of a title shot. About as undeserving as Sean Sherk was.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Honestly I hated the fact BJ got a LW title shot and I made at least one thread (possibly two) about it. I just didn't see Joe beating BJ as even possible but then again I don't think Joe is all that good.

IDK Damone you just come off as a little anti BJ.


----------



## tripster (Jun 5, 2006)

Most seem to be predicting GSP will GnP BJ, that he will take him down and control him on the ground. I will be very surprised if this fight goes to the ground in the initial rounds. GSP has been working his stand-up a lot in the last 18 months and I suspect he will display significant advantages in the stand-up over BJ. Fitch learned the hard way how good GSP's stand up is and even admitted he couldn't deal with GSP's speed. The problem is most people judge GSP's stand up by the embarrasing loss to Serra but that fight should not be referred to for GSP's abilities.

This is going to be a stand-up demolition of BJ with especially a lot of kicks!


----------



## kano666 (Nov 2, 2007)

FunkYou said:


> GSP and BJ are very evenly matched in this fight. I would say that GSP is slight favourite especially as he is more of a natural WW that Penn. What makes GSP so good isn't necessarily that he is the best at any particular element of MMA but that he puts all the elements together so well.
> 
> He isn't a great striker but he does use a wide variety of strikes and uses them to set up his takedowns well. When he is just trying to strike he can get caught in the pocket with no head movement. If he does that against Penn he will get knocked out.
> 
> ...


Repped. This is a logical and thoughtful analysis. I can't believe how many people think either Penn or GSP will easily and definitely win this fight. It's an exciting matchup which will be tough to call.

In my opinion, GSP could win by TKO, decision, or doctor stoppage (cuts). BJ could win by TKO, submission (choke), KO, decision, or doctor stoppage (cuts). That's a lot of possible outcomes. We could see some slow parts where BJ neutralizes GSP from his back, but it is very unlikely GSP will lay 'n' pray for five rounds. Both fighters are too dynamic and well-rounded for that result.


----------



## newfish (Jun 26, 2008)

Both of these guys have great balance, which is what makes the fight so interesting. Their BJJ makes the ground game interesting too, but I wonder if Pierre's strength will be enough to overcome Penn's flexibility and balance. Likewise, Penn isn't that strong, and Pierre is good on his fight. I could see the muay thai clinch playing a big role in this fight. 

So, what the hell: Pierre by knees.


----------



## jdun11 (Apr 23, 2006)

I agree with bbjd here. Damone, you kinda hate BJ bro!

The thing everyone is forgetting about this fight is that BJ was in the worst shape of his life for that fight. IMO BJ has improved much more than GSP since that night. I think he underestimated GSP a lil bit.


----------



## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

He is not a Penn hater. He is a Koscheck hater.

Anyways, it's hard to say who has improved more. BJ has improved alot at lightweight. We are still unsure on how he will perform in the welterweight division this time around.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Honestly that stuff about BJ's losses not counting because he was in bad shape has got to stop.

BJ lost a number of times and it's not just because he's out of shape.

He lost to GSP because GSP is bigger stronger and faster so he got him down and controlled him even with his face messed up.

Now I think BJ has a good chance in this fight however I think this match up is being really under analyzed.

GSP vs BJ standing is a lot more complex then people are looking at and GSP vs BJ on the ground is as well.

In fact GSP vs BJ in the battle for takedowns is something people aren't thinking about enough either.

This is such a interesting match up that people are just overlooking and saying

Striking BJ>GSP
Takedowns GSP>BJ
Submission skills vs submission defense BJ=GSP

This match up isn't that simple it is actually IMO a very complex fight in every facet.


----------



## 69nites (Jul 28, 2008)

I don't know that BJ's striking should be rated THAT high over GSP's. He's got boxing but nothing comes from his legs and he throws next to nothing to the body. Jabbing GSP all night isn't going to work. Leg and body kicks are going to hit BJ a lot while it's standing and while it's not going to knock him out it's going to kill his flexibility and really start to hurt him in the later rounds.

I don't see GSP keeping it standing long because obviously he's got better chances on top of BJ but I don't think it's going to involve BJ totally schooling GSP and then GSP taking BJ down out of desperation like most seem to be making it seem.


----------



## Rated (Nov 25, 2006)

jdun11 said:


> I agree with bbjd here. Damone, you kinda hate BJ bro!
> 
> The thing everyone is forgetting about this fight is that BJ was in the worst shape of his life for that fight. IMO BJ has improved much more than GSP since that night. I think he underestimated GSP a lil bit.


The same could be said for GSP. I recall in his post-fight interview that he did not really prepare for a stand-up war because he saw him more as a dangerous grappler.

And hey, if Damone _hates_ BJ what does that make you. :laugh:


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> Honestly that stuff about BJ's losses not counting because he was in bad shape has got to stop.
> 
> BJ lost a number of times and it's not just because he's out of shape.
> 
> ...


I agree, there's definitely a lot of oversimplification going on with regard to this fight. I can't remember if I said it in this thread or not, but a deciding factor in GSP's victory last time around was the pace he pushed. Not even just the pace, but the fact he dictated where the fight took place at all times, he made it a complete mixed martial arts match, rather than a stand-up war/ground war, which ultimately wore out BJ. It was a constant battle for a dominant position, and for the most part GSP controlled the fight's momentum.

Standing BJ did more *visible* damage, but the leg kicks GSP started to land in the second and third round definitely slowed BJ down and started to turn the fight in his favor.

Both guys negate each other on the ground, and I think the same will happen unless BJ ends-up on-top of Georges because GSP has rarely shown his guard skills.

This fight just boils down to work ethic and strategy. To suggest there's only one way for either of these men to defeat one another is really an insult to their quality as mixed martial artists.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> I agree, there's definitely a lot of oversimplification going on with regard to this fight. I can't remember if I said it in this thread or not, but a deciding factor in GSP's victory last time around was the pace he pushed. Not even just the pace, but the fact he dictated where the fight took place at all times, he made it a complete mixed martial arts match, rather than a stand-up war/ground war, which ultimately wore out BJ. It was a constant battle for a dominant position, and for the most part GSP controlled the fight's momentum.
> 
> Standing BJ did more *visible* damage, but the leg kicks GSP started to land in the second and third round definitely slowed BJ down and started to turn the fight in his favor.
> 
> ...


I agree to a point. I think GSP is the favorite but a very slight one.

I think these two are pretty much even standing like you said.

Now on the ground GSP can control him however I'm not sure if he will do enough to win rounds if BJ is throwing up subs off his back.

I really wish people would stop just saying either BJ will beat him up standing or GSP will gas out BJ because this fight has so many different facets to it that people are ignoring.

BJ's flexibility vs GSP's athleticism
BJ's submission vs GSP's GnP
BJ's boxing vs GSP's well rounded stand up

And something being overlooked that I think will determine the winner is clinch work.

BJ is too hard to takedown and GSP is too good at takedowns for this not to end up against the cage clinched up for a good amount of time and neither of these guys spends all that much time in the clinch during their careers.


----------



## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

Bj has 5 submission victories in his career, 4 are RNC's, and one is an arm triangle vs a striker. Of course he has the "ability" to submit GSP, but I think it is highly unlikely.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> I agree to a point. I think GSP is the favorite but a very slight one.


Well, the only logical reason that Georges would be considered the favourite is the fact he won the last fight and that it's his weight-class.



bbjd7 said:


> Now on the ground GSP can control him however I'm not sure if he will do enough to win rounds if BJ is throwing up subs off his back.


Yeah, I'm skeptical of that as well. In the last fight it was the takedowns that really made the difference, especially the double leg scoop-slam in the third round. If I was Georges, I'd be training takedowns and submission defense specifically. If he can take down BJ, cause damage, then get out of BJ's guard as quickly as possible, over and over again, I think he could outpoint him. There's no point in laying in BJ's guard and letting him work from his back, especially if it's just hindering your offensive output. Stand-up to get out of his guard, and wear his legs down while he's on his back. It's not a pretty way of winning, but GSP really needs to make this an extremely physical fight, make BJ realize why there are weight-classes.



bbjd7 said:


> I really wish people would stop just saying either BJ will beat him up standing or GSP will gas out BJ because this fight has so many different facets to it that people are ignoring.


Same, both these guys are amazingly talented. It really just comes down to who is more prepared and better on the night of the fights.



bbjd7 said:


> And something being overlooked that I think will determine the winner is clinch work.
> 
> BJ is too hard to takedown and GSP is too good at takedowns for this not to end up against the cage clinched up for a good amount of time and neither of these guys spends all that much time in the clinch during their careers.


Yeah I agree, in fact, a lot of their first fight took place alongside the cage, pummeling for position. I expect this fight to actually get a lot of boos from casual fans who don't understand the intricacies of the clinch game. From what I've seen, GSP is more active inside the clinch with knees, whereas BJ prefers dirty boxing and throwing his heels at the back of his opponent's legs Gracie style.

I just think this fight is going to be a grinding workout for both guys, I'm leaning towards GSP mainly because we know how well he fights at 170, whereas we don't know how much better BJ will be at WW than he was before.


----------



## bbjd7 (Apr 9, 2007)

Fedor>all said:


> Well, the only logical reason that Georges would be considered the favourite is the fact he won the last fight and that it's his weight-class.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree I'm not sure who will win this on the ground. But if GSP can at least make the judges think he is in complete control by using your strategy then that would be smart but if he takes him down and lies there his GnP better be improved because otherwise I think Judges will give rounds to BJ.

Exactly what I think honestly if this fight happens 10 times it could really go 5-5.

GSP is obviously stronger however I think I'm going to rewatch their fights to see more of their clinch work.

Yea I could see it being a fight where the guy in better shape wins but I could also see one guy landing something early that changes the fight.


----------



## rdrush (Mar 5, 2007)

If it gets to the clinch, GSP will take down BJ. Anyone remember that violent throw against hughes at 79? He is the bigger stronger man which will help quite a lot in the clinch. I think if there is one clear cut advantage going into this fight for GSP it will be in the clinch and takedowns.


----------



## Fedor>all (Oct 22, 2006)

bbjd7 said:


> I agree I'm not sure who will win this on the ground. But if GSP can at least make the judges think he is in complete control by using your strategy then that would be smart but if he takes him down and lies there his GnP better be improved because otherwise I think Judges will give rounds to BJ.


Yeah, even if he doesn't damage BJ with strikes, he just needs to be more active in the judges' eyes.



bbjd7 said:


> Exactly what I think honestly if this fight happens 10 times it could really go 5-5.


Absolutely, that's the beauty of the match-up. This is really an instance of flipping a coin.



bbjd7 said:


> GSP is obviously stronger however I think I'm going to rewatch their fights to see more of their clinch work.


I rewatched the fight a week ago, and it seems as though GSP kind of wore down BJ in the clinch, just pressing him against the cage. He didn't do a whole lot of damage, but simply pummeling for that long can be exhausting, and BJ started to look winded as a result of GSP's strength and persistence. Both guys work the clinch very differently though, it'll be interesting to see if they make adjustments.



bbjd7 said:


> Yea I could see it being a fight where the guy in better shape wins but I could also see one guy landing something early that changes the fight.


GSP's best path to victory would be to weather BJ's storm in the first two rounds, then really up the ante in the final three. The greatest thing about this match-up is that there are two additional rounds, which could tell an entirely different story from the first fight.


----------



## norfolkgracie1 (Dec 15, 2008)

i like bj(hope i dont get banned for that)


----------



## FunkYou (Apr 22, 2007)

WHat's this a thread about BJ - Penn that has developed into a discudssion of the actual fight and BBJD and F>A are kind of agreeing with each other. I thought I knew this place but suddenly it seems so strange.

As for Damone being a BJ fighter I don't see it. I remember when I first joined this sight Damone had a fight of the week in his sig and the one there when I joined was BJ - Gomi saying what a dangerous guy BJ is when he is on. Hardly hating.


----------



## Stapler (Nov 18, 2006)

Good memory.

Still, I'd say he is more of a Koscheck hater. When he fights, he usually picks his opponent to win. Or maybe that is just when I'm actually paying attention.

I don't think Penn can do enough off of his back to win a decision. You know how much they favor the guy on top in the UFC. He probably knows that.


----------



## Bazza89 (Dec 31, 2006)

Nick_V03 said:


> I don't think Penn can do enough off of his back to win a decision. *You know how much they favor the guy on top in the UFC. He probably knows that*.


This is true, BJ's hated being on his back in MMA ever since Hughes got the decision over Charuto. I can definitely see BJ neutralizing GSP from there much like in the first fight. TBH I think this is where we'll find out just how much GSP has improved and just how better BJ's cardio has got.


----------



## BhamKiD (Aug 20, 2008)

This whole thread makes my head hurt. I am rooting 100% for BJ. That being said, I'll be the first one to tell you that GSP is a VERY dangerous fighter. He has amazing conditioning, great takedowns and sub defense, and good striking. It is ludicrous to say that either man will win with ease. I have heard some retarded things said in this and other threads about this subject. I think BJ will win this fight. But you better believe I'll have my fingers crossed. :dunno:


----------



## Damone (Oct 1, 2006)

FunkYou said:


> WHat's this a thread about BJ - Penn that has developed into a discudssion of the actual fight and BBJD and F>A are kind of agreeing with each other. I thought I knew this place but suddenly it seems so strange.
> 
> As for Damone being a BJ fighter I don't see it. I remember when I first joined this sight Damone had a fight of the week in his sig and the one there when I joined was BJ - Gomi saying what a dangerous guy BJ is when he is on. Hardly hating.


BJ vs Gomi is my favorite BJ fight. He handled a great fighter, beating him in the striking, sub and wrestling department. Gomi's a really good wrestler, and BJ took him down easily. Just a performance that should be praised. His performance against Rodrigo Gracie was great, too.

I can see why Penn hates being on his back. Charuto vs Hughes was a horrible decision (2 judges gave Matt Hughes the first round).


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

That was the fight that really made me realize that there NEEDED to be a change in the UFC scoring system. 

Before that I thought maybe that I was being just a little selfish.


----------



## tripster (Jun 5, 2006)

BhamKiD said:


> This whole thread makes my head hurt.
> 
> Me too!
> 
> ...


----------



## Bazza89 (Dec 31, 2006)

Damone said:


> BJ vs Gomi is my favorite BJ fight. He handled a great fighter, beating him in the striking, sub and wrestling department. Gomi's a really good wrestler, and BJ took him down easily. Just a performance that should be praised. His performance against Rodrigo Gracie was great, too.
> 
> I can see why Penn hates being on his back. Charuto vs Hughes was a horrible decision (2 judges gave Matt Hughes the first round).


Penn - Gomi was an *awesome* fight. He really handled Gomi in that fight which is seriously impressive.

Agree about Hughes - Charuto aswell. Really weird scoring.


----------



## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

I can't make a prediction on this fight because GSP is a beast who always surprises me and BJ has been my favorite fighter forever.

But I don't think Jdun is trying to disrespect GSP, he knows what a beast he is too. It's just that in their first fight GSP did jack shit, he took BJ down and did nothing, and BJ would be workin for subs and gettin back to his feet the whole time. Same thing could happen again.


----------



## r00kie (Jul 8, 2008)

tripster said:


> BhamKiD said:
> 
> 
> > This whole thread makes my head hurt.
> ...


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

tripster said:


> Well, I think that most members can have a sound and structured opinion, the only problem when it comes to GSP and BJ is that we are all hanging on their nuts.
> 
> I do think that there is a little bit of overrating towards BJ (especially out of his own weight class). The first fight was close with GSP, but aside from the bloody face GSP got he did not overly impressed me that night.
> 
> ...


His almost total control of GSP brutal G'n'P was not impressive? That was what I took away from that fight. GSP landed one to two good shots in the 7-8 minutes he had him in guard. That was amazing. GSP had and has not been held in check on the ground like that ever. And he almost had an omaplata.


----------



## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

It took way too long for BJ to KO Sherk and GSP has much better movement and striking. BJ can't take him down either, I think GSP can actually GnP Penn. Or as you say it might look like laying and praying but GSP is going to work, it's just that Penn is really good at avoiding damage. Either way the fight is going to be crazy.


----------



## diablo5597 (Nov 12, 2008)

GSP takes this fight any way he wants to. I know Penn is a beast but GSP will show everyone that he as close too a god as a man can get. He's just on another level. After he beats Penn he will also beat Alves and A. Silva. Watch it happen.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

SimplyNate said:


> It took way too long for BJ to KO Sherk and GSP has much better movement and striking. BJ can't take him down either, I think GSP can actually GnP Penn. Or as you say it might look like laying and praying but GSP is going to work, it's just that Penn is really good at avoiding damage. Either way the fight is going to be crazy.


GSP's movement is terrible...that is his weakest point in his game. His head is stationary and he panics during exchanges and does little in the pocket. Even Sherk took advantage of this weakness in his fight against GSP. And he was outreached by like 104 inches. 

BJ can take him down, just not in the double leg traditional TD attempt. He needs a judo style takedown.


----------



## SimplyNate (May 27, 2007)

Well I was referring to more foot movement and staying out of range. In the pocket like someone already said I agree his movement is terrible.


----------



## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

You guys don't think GSP's been working on this stuff?

The only constant with GSP is his incredibly ability to surprise and blow everyone away. I agree BJ is a formidable opponent and have said before that GSP will have to bring his A game to beat him, but it'll be a war. I'm sure GSP also knows how squiggly and squirmy BJ is and has been fine-tuning his GNP accordingly.


----------



## ZZtigerZZ81 (Jul 8, 2006)

SimplyNate said:


> Well I was referring to more foot movement and staying out of range. In the pocket like someone already said I agree his movement is terrible.


I assumed that is what yo umeant but just wanted to be sure...agree in that case. GSP is very good at movement on his feet and staying at distance, but he did that in their first match too and when he came in he got tagged on almost every occassion because BJ has lighting quick straight shots. And he is pretty accurate. Will they KO GSP...no way, but they could set up bigger shots and cause problems like thumbs in the eye...bloody nose...etc.


----------



## Suizida (Feb 29, 2008)

Sorry Jdun11, i gotta do this 
in the words of Josh Barnett, you need to eat crow
and here it is. Nothing personal


----------



## Cartheron (Sep 5, 2007)

I approve of this bump. :thumbsup:


----------



## kc1983 (May 27, 2007)

Bet that crow is tastin' great LOL 

In all honesty, I did expect GSP to win but I didn't expect it to be as one-sided of a beating as it was. I kinda felt bad for BJ at times, he was truly outclassed. 

I really like Penn and hope he can now *STAY AT LW* and defend his title. I don't see anybody beating him at LW at this time. This is the weight class he belongs at. He needs to stay at lightweight and defend his title, same way GSP is going to stay at WW and continue to dominate.


----------



## Walker (May 27, 2007)

Everyone here eats crow from time to time it's the nature of the beast. Some predictions come true others don't. 

I posted that there was no way Brock would beat Herring because Heath had waaay too much experience to lose to Lesnar. 

Just man up and move on.


----------



## Godzuki (Feb 26, 2007)

It's tough trying to pick those feathers out yer teeth, lol.

Although, I also expected BJ to give a much better account of himself.


----------



## southpaw447 (Mar 21, 2007)

Wow this thread stinks of Failure


----------



## Suizida (Feb 29, 2008)

jdun11 said:


> Go ahead flame me all you want but its true. The only gsP wins is by lay and pray.
> 
> Other than wrestling, what exactly is GSP beterr then BJ at? BJJ? No! Striking? No!
> 
> ...


Sorry to make you eat more crow but i just read this now. Wow :thumb02:


----------



## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

To be fair...

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/51015-gsp.html


----------



## Ape City (May 27, 2007)

tra la la


----------

