# Why Brock would beat Fedor (video)



## Coosh (Sep 25, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJjQXq5tjjw

The guy who put this up is ridiculous. What do you think of his logic? I think he's only looking at the selective points he wants to see and is ignoring reality. I've been replying with him in the comment section of his video.


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## Jesy Blue (May 8, 2009)

obviously an uneducated hater.

i'm no fedor fan boy, but he needs to get his facts a little better.
i like how he just glosses over Nog's UFC championship victory.


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

LMAO!! I about spit my drink out when it said "In CroCop's first fight in the UFC, he faces Gabriel Gonzaga"...what a chode.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

You cant post stuff like that on here. Im surprised its not gone yet! Hell Fedor could get knocked out and tapped at the same time and people would say he was robbed> lol I for 1 think a healthy Brock or maybe even Shane would give Fedor more than he could handle. But im the minority on here when it comes to Fedor.Hes accomplished some great things for sure but I do believe m-1 global ducked the UFC to protect his record. IMO of course.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Never got into Fedor, the ridiculous amount of hype put on him by his nut-huggers completely turned me away from him. Watched him fight Rogers and that is hardly the performance of the "BEST ATHELETE TO EVER EXIST IN ANY SPORT EVERZ!!1!!1!" Got his nose broken literally 2 seconds and bled all over himself. Got some vicious GnP from a man with no wrestling background and is nowhere near the size of brock, or muscle mass, of Brock. Sure he won but was it impressive? No. Impressive is what little damage a fighter like Anderson Silva takes and the amount he gives. Unless Fedor doesn't usually take a beating to the degree he did against Rogers, I see Brock beating him rather easily.


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## Nikkolai (Jan 7, 2008)

AlphaDawg said:


> Never got into Fedor, the ridiculous amount of hype put on him by his nut-huggers completely turned me away from him. Watched him fight Rogers and that is hardly the performance of the "BEST ATHELETE TO EVER EXIST IN ANY SPORT EVERZ!!1!!1!" Got his nose broken literally 2 seconds and bled all over himself. Got some vicious GnP from a man with no wrestling background and is nowhere near the size of brock, or muscle mass, of Brock. Sure he won but was it impressive? No. Impressive is what little damage a fighter like Anderson Silva takes and the amount he gives. Unless Fedor doesn't usually take a beating to the degree he did against Rogers, I see Brock beating him rather easily.


If you have seen his other fights besides that, you will know that Fedor will take punishment to give punishment. He never really looks invincible but when he gets hurt, he becomes the most dangerous. True, most of his fans can get annoying by saying that fighters he fights have no chance to win.


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## King JLB (Apr 28, 2009)

These posts are getting a little tired. We'll never know unless they fight each other. Fedor was supposed to lose to Nogueira and Cro Cop but won regardless. Why is it that Fedor destroys two former UFC champions in a row that it means nothing to the Brock lovers? These were the best fighters in the UFC heavyweight division, left and got owned. 

The poster clearly is a Fedor-hater and only spoke about certain "facts". We can disagree on this all day long, but Fedor is one of the most successful fighters in history. None of his decisions were ever controversial (to my knowledge) and he's always been a classy victor. Can Brock beat him? hell yes!!! Will he? I don't know... Fedor seemed slow against Rogers, maybe it would be the end for him, but until then...


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

AlphaDawg said:


> Never got into Fedor, the ridiculous amount of hype put on him by his nut-huggers completely turned me away from him. Watched him fight Rogers and that is hardly the performance of the "BEST ATHELETE TO EVER EXIST IN ANY SPORT EVERZ!!1!!1!" Got his nose broken literally 2 seconds and bled all over himself. Got some vicious GnP from a man with no wrestling background and is nowhere near the size of brock, or muscle mass, of Brock. Sure he won but was it impressive? No. Impressive is what little damage a fighter like Anderson Silva takes and the amount he gives. Unless Fedor doesn't usually take a beating to the degree he did against Rogers, I see Brock beating him rather easily.


Ditto. The guy is good, and exciting, but nowhere near the p4p status of an A. Silva or GSP. I still believe the big wrestlers in the UFC will beat him. 

But Fedor fans (some of them, anyway) really do the guy a disservice. It's a constant battle to separate the fighter from the fans.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

i never saw the Arona fight before.... questionable imo


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## Calminian (Feb 1, 2009)

Spec0688 said:


> I hate this talk of Fedor vs anyone in the UFC, because its really unlikely to happen anytime soon, and if it does happen in the future, there will always be a "passed his prime" topic if he loses.


But then the question arises, why is he staying away from the UFC while he's still young, and why do his fans support the decision? That's what gets me. If his fans spoke up, he'd be in the UFC now. But they think a resume of Crocop, Nog, and LHW's like Coleman and Randleman are enough. Now all he has to do is beat Werdum. :confused02:


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## Soakked (Feb 5, 2007)

I'm going on memory here, but wasn't the Fedor Arona fight a grappling match only? As in no strikes allowed?


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

This video is soooooooooooo sooooooo old.

Doesn't the guy say Fedor at best is a brown belt in *****? haha


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## creepjacker (Jul 19, 2009)

"Why is it that Fedor destroys two former UFC champions in a row that it means nothing to the Brock lovers? These were the best fighters in the UFC heavyweight division, left and got owned."

Brock also beat 2 UFC champs, does that not matter? The 2 champs Fedor beat left the UFC because they were losing in the UFC. You make it sound like they left at the top of there game (seriously, does Tim Silvia even have a top game?).


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## MikeHawk (Sep 11, 2009)

I like how Fedor is discredited for anything he's done because it wasn't done in the UFC. You can automatically tell a UFC fan from an MMA fan when they say stuff like that.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

creepjacker said:


> "Why is it that Fedor destroys two former UFC champions in a row that it means nothing to the Brock lovers? These were the best fighters in the UFC heavyweight division, left and got owned."
> 
> Brock also beat 2 UFC champs, does that not matter? The 2 champs Fedor beat left the UFC because they were losing in the UFC. You make it sound like they left at the top of there game (seriously, does Tim Silvia even have a top game?).


With that kind of talk you're going to turn this into a Fedor vs Lesnar thread. And if this is a sample of your Fedor knowledge you might get embarassed were that to happen. 


This video is massively old and Lesnar isn't an active fighter right now so I see no reason to discuss it, beyond how dumb the guy in the video comes off as.


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## Zemelya (Sep 23, 2007)

AlphaDawg said:


> Never got into Fedor, the ridiculous amount of hype put on him by his nut-huggers completely turned me away from him. Watched him fight Rogers and that is hardly the performance of the "BEST ATHELETE TO EVER EXIST IN ANY SPORT EVERZ!!1!!1!" Got his nose broken literally 2 seconds and bled all over himself. Got some vicious GnP from a man with no wrestling background and is nowhere near the size of brock, or muscle mass, of Brock. Sure he won but was it impressive? No. Impressive is what little damage a fighter like Anderson Silva takes and the amount he gives. Unless Fedor doesn't usually take a beating to the degree he did against Rogers, I see Brock beating him rather easily.


Would it be more fun if he just layed'n'prayed for victory instead of banging it out with 40-50 pound heavier than him dude?

and the fight was unimpressive because... Fedor had blood coming from his nose??


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## WouldLuv2FightU (Jul 17, 2006)

Soakked said:


> I'm going on memory here, but wasn't the Fedor Arona fight a grappling match only? As in no strikes allowed?


Yes it was in RINGS and in RINGS there are no strikes allowed on the ground.


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## King JLB (Apr 28, 2009)

creepjacker said:


> "Why is it that Fedor destroys two former UFC champions in a row that it means nothing to the Brock lovers? These were the best fighters in the UFC heavyweight division, left and got owned."
> 
> Brock also beat 2 UFC champs, does that not matter? The 2 champs Fedor beat left the UFC because they were losing in the UFC. You make it sound like they left at the top of there game (seriously, does Tim Silvia even have a top game?).


Sylvia lost to Nogueira and left. It's not like Dana was completely disinterested in re-signing him, it's just newer, more exciting fighters were coming in. Arlovski was on a 3 fight win streak when left the UFC and had won 5 straight before facing off against Fedor. I'm not here to argue whihc former champs were better, but when Fedor was at his prime in Pride the whole argument was Pride (Fedor) vs. UFC (Sylvia).

But your point is valid, except for Min-Soo Kim, Brock has only fought top competition. I'm not looking for an argument whether Herring istop competition, but he's been around for a while and is a main card fighter.

It comes down to this: everyone is comparing a veteran to a new fighter. Brock has dominated pretty much everyone he's faced, but after only 4 opponents, how much can we really assume? 

Honestly, if they ever fight it will do nothing to calm this shitstorm. Brock winning would never stop the Fedor love, like mentioned before, he'll have been "past his prime".

I am really looking forward to Brock facing Carwin, Cain and Dos Santos. If he walks through all three of these guys (best up and commers imo), i'll be the first to give the man his due.


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## robbiebp (Dec 31, 2006)

jcal said:


> You cant post stuff like that on here. Im surprised its not gone yet! Hell Fedor could get knocked out and tapped at the same time and people would say he was robbed> lol I for 1 think a healthy Brock or maybe even Shane would give Fedor more than he could handle. But im the minority on here when it comes to Fedor.Hes accomplished some great things for sure but I do believe m-1 global ducked the UFC to protect his record. IMO of course.


He's fighting pretty damn good competition as it is and he's making 2 or 3 times more than he would in the UFC :|

The UFC is my main MMA organisation to watch, but Fedor is on a different level. Brett Rogers is as good as any heavyweight the UFC has, and he just got his block knocked clean off.

Brock has strenght but Fedor is just an animal man, an absolute animal.


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## swpthleg (Dec 31, 2006)

I just don't see Brock beating Fedor, even if he returns to complete health.

Size and strength aren't the only determining factors, Hong Man Choi dwarfed Fedor.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

robbiebp said:


> *He's fighting pretty damn good competition as it is and he's making 2 or 3 times more than he would in the UFC :|*
> The UFC is my main MMA organisation to watch, but Fedor is on a different level. *Brett Rogers is as good as any heavyweight the UFC has, and he just got his block knocked clean off.*
> Brock has strenght but Fedor is just an animal man, an absolute animal.


Are you sure hes making more in strikeforce than the UFC offered him?

and as far as rogers bieng as good as heavyweight as the ufc has to offer is just ridiculous. :confused03:



swpthleg said:


> I just don't see Brock beating Fedor, even if he returns to complete health.
> 
> Size and strength aren't the only determining factors, Hong Man Choi dwarfed Fedor.


Hongman choi has no mma skills where brock is an outstanding ground fighter. Theres no way Fedor would submit Brock just NO. Brock is fastest 300 lb animal around, Fedor would not be able to stop the shot , he would not be able to submit him from the bottom IMo he would take a hell of a beating. Cmon swpleg! Hongmanchoi? lol


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## NikosCC (May 16, 2007)

That video is stupid as is the maker..


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## robbiebp (Dec 31, 2006)

jcal said:


> Are you sure hes making more in strikeforce than the UFC offered him?
> 
> and as far as rogers bieng as good as heavyweight as the ufc has to offer is just ridiculous. :confused03:


Rogers is an animal, I actually though he could have stopped Fedor there, but Fedor was a beast.

That said, now that Rogers is out of the way Strikeforce doesn't even have a top 10 to offer Fedor.


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## The Dude Abides (Jul 8, 2008)

creepjacker said:


> "Why is it that Fedor destroys two former UFC champions in a row that it means nothing to the Brock lovers? These were the best fighters in the UFC heavyweight division, left and got owned."
> 
> Brock also beat 2 UFC champs, does that not matter? The 2 champs Fedor beat left the UFC because they were losing in the UFC. You make it sound like they left at the top of there game (seriously, does Tim Silvia even have a top game?).


Frank Mir and Randy Couture, woah, elite HW there folks. What is Randy's record by the way? Fact is, Fedor tools those two, easily. 

But of course Lesnar has a chance, he'd be nearly 60lbs heavier on the night FFS!! 

For me, any MMA fan who has been a fan for any length of time wouldn't be so disrespectful towards a great champ like Fedor.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

jcal said:


> Are you sure hes making more in strikeforce than the UFC offered him?
> 
> and as far as rogers bieng as good as heavyweight as the ufc has to offer is just ridiculous. :confused03:


No, that person doesnt actually have any idea what he is talking about. No one actually knows what Fedor was offered by the UFC. I thought he got paid 400,000 for his last fight in Strikeforce, the UFC makes a hell of a lot more money then Strikeforce, im sure they could have topped that easily if they felt the need.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

swp said:


> I just don't see Brock beating Fedor, even if he returns to complete health.
> 
> Size and strength aren't the only determining factors, Hong Man Choi dwarfed Fedor.


Apples and oranges.


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## FracturedSkull (Nov 22, 2009)

I like both Fedor and Brock. But honestly, we can't predict the future. We will only really know what the outcome will be, the day Fedor and Brock fight. Which I hope happens in the next few years.


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## AlphaDawg (Nov 16, 2009)

Zemelya said:


> Would it be more fun if he just layed'n'prayed for victory instead of banging it out with 40-50 pound heavier than him dude?
> 
> and the fight was unimpressive because... Fedor had blood coming from his nose??


No. It was unimpressive because of the amount of damage he took overall. Best fighter to ever exist is the history of everz, shouldnt be taking that much damage.


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## lpbigd4444 (Oct 1, 2008)

I'm a Lesnar fan and I think Lesnar would win (not because of this video) and I find this video hilarious... awesome music too


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## Mjr (Apr 22, 2007)

The Dude Abides said:


> Frank Mir and Randy Couture, woah, elite HW there folks. What is Randy's record by the way? Fact is, Fedor tools those two, easily.
> 
> But of course Lesnar has a chance, he'd be nearly 60lbs heavier on the night FFS!!
> 
> For me, any MMA fan who has been a fan for any length of time wouldn't be so disrespectful towards a great champ like Fedor.


Very good post. 

Both average fighters, but as you say Brock would certainly have a chance due to size.


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## robbiebp (Dec 31, 2006)

joshua7789 said:


> No, that person doesnt actually have any idea what he is talking about. No one actually knows what Fedor was offered by the UFC. I thought he got paid 400,000 for his last fight in Strikeforce, the UFC makes a hell of a lot more money then Strikeforce, im sure they could have topped that easily if they felt the need.


Last figure I saw was Fedor getting paid $1m per fight flatrate for StrikeForce. He loses out on the PPV bonuses UFC would probably get him but he maintains his stake with M1 who got the co-promotion deal they want.

M1 will likely be able to air the fights overseas without having to pay StrikeForce a penny. Fedor makes far more money this way.


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## joshua7789 (Apr 25, 2009)

robbiebp said:


> Last figure I saw was Fedor getting paid $1m per fight flatrate for StrikeForce. He loses out on the PPV bonuses UFC would probably get him but he maintains his stake with M1 who got the co-promotion deal they want.
> 
> M1 will likely be able to air the fights overseas without having to pay StrikeForce a penny. Fedor makes far more money this way.


Not trying to be an ass (ill gladly stand corrected if im wrong) but I dont suppose you have a link to where you saw this at?


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## robbiebp (Dec 31, 2006)

The Dude Abides said:


> Frank Mir and Randy Couture, woah, elite HW there folks. What is Randy's record by the way? Fact is, Fedor tools those two, easily.
> 
> But of course Lesnar has a chance, he'd be nearly 60lbs heavier on the night FFS!!
> 
> For me, any MMA fan who has been a fan for any length of time wouldn't be so disrespectful towards a great champ like Fedor.


Judging Randy based on the numbers on his record is actually one of the most ridiculous things an MMA fan can do. 

His losses aren't against slackers or nobodies.

Since being in the UFC he's lost against Josh Barnett, Ricco Rodriguez, Chuck, Belfort, Lesnar and Nog. They were all top of the pile at their time.

He's always fought at the top, he didn't pick up a shitty 20 fight win streak of nobodies or amateurs like Rolando Delgado.

You judge any fighter today and try find as many high profile fights in a single career as Randy has. There are few, they are there but there are few.

Sorry for the derail but had to be said.


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## Mjr (Apr 22, 2007)

robbiebp said:


> Judging Randy based on the numbers on his record is actually one of the most ridiculous things an MMA fan can do.
> 
> His losses aren't against slackers or nobodies.
> 
> ...


Not to take anything away from Randy, but he is often considered the underdog, and while he has pulled some amazing upsets, he has lost 10 times which is a rather high number. I like Randy, but IMO he is a little bit over-rated.


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## robbiebp (Dec 31, 2006)

joshua7789 said:


> Not trying to be an ass (ill gladly stand corrected if im wrong) but I dont suppose you have a link to where you saw this at?





> “Sources close to the fighter have informed us that Strikeforce were in talks with Affliction, M-1 Global and Golden Boy promotions on a long term deal with Emelianenko within the last couple of days. The promotion reportedly offered the former Pride champion between 500,000 and 700,000 per fight, a non-exclusive contract, guaranteed exposure on CBS shows and a cut of any PPV event he was a part of.”
> 
> “Emelianenko would certainly be able to get maximum mainstream U.S. exposure via CBS and Showtime which could lead possible big money endorsement deals and he'd also get to enjoy the freedoms associated with Strikeforce's non-exclusive contracts. This scenario is considered a strong possibility if Emelianenko is indeed a free agent according to inside sources.”


The amount he was getting was increased in the talks afaik after backing from StrikeForce's investors. There is no definitive salary until StrikeForce release the salaries for the Rogers vs Fedor event. 

The point I'm trying to make is that Fedor receives more from his stake in M1 and their co-promotion contract than he would fighting exclusively for and under the UFC.


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## munkie (Sep 28, 2009)

The post of that video obviously knows nothing about MMA or he's got a boner for Lesnar. Face it, Lesnar is light years away from being on Fedors level. I do see his point when mentioning Cro Cop. Cro Cop came from being an elite heavyweight outside of the UFC, to being barely mid level fighter in the UFC. However, putting Nog in that same category is dumb. Anyways, back to the point, regarding Lesnar/Fedor, the only thing that Lesnar has going for him is his wrestling and the fact that he is a ******* buffalo of a man. Overall game, experience, and just being able to threaten from every single position means that Fedor simply has Lesnar outclassed. Granted, you can't count Lesnar out because his is such a monster of a man with gorrila power, but my money would definitely be on Fedor in this fight.


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## xeberus (Apr 23, 2007)

i think the guy who made this video is an idiot.

however i think brock in his prime would have beaten fedor. Size, condition and strength will beat skill most of the time, its not fair to fedor.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

xeberus said:


> however i think brock in his prime would have beaten fedor. Size, condition and strength will beat skill most of the time, its not fair to fedor.




I couldn't possibly disagree with you more.


Also when since when is Brock in or out of his prime?


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

xeberus said:


> however i think brock in his prime would have beaten fedor. Size, condition and strength will beat skill most of the time, its not fair to fedor.


What do you mean in his prime? You are referring to a 4-1 fighter in the past sense. Do you mean once Brock hits him prime he would beat Fedor?


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

ppl saying hong man and rogers prove something because both are big and fedor dealt with them from the bottom... do you really think HMC and Rogers have 1/10th of the top game Brock Lesnar has?? So, if those 2 guys who arent known for takedowns and top games can end up on top, why cant Brock?? Would you agree its very possible?? Would you also agree Brock pinning Fedor to the cage like Rogers almost did could end up a very bad sitution??

Ppl love to point at HMC and Rogers as proof that Fedor can handle huge HWs, i look at it as proof Brock will end up on top on the ground and he isnt HMC or Rogers once he gets you there you are getting hamburgered.


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## wukkadb (Jan 1, 2007)

alizio said:


> ppl saying hong man and rogers prove something because both are big and fedor dealt with them from the bottom... do you really think HMC and Rogers have 1/10th of the top game Brock Lesnar has?? So, if those 2 guys who arent known for takedowns and top games can end up on top, why cant Brock?? Would you agree its very possible?? Would you also agree Brock pinning Fedor to the cage like Rogers almost did could end up a very bad sitution??
> 
> Ppl love to point at HMC and Rogers as proof that Fedor can handle huge HWs, i look at it as proof Brock will end up on top on the ground and he isnt HMC or Rogers once he gets you there you are getting hamburgered.


Yes, this is true.


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## Coosh (Sep 25, 2009)

wukkadb said:


> What do you mean in his prime? You are referring to a 4-1 fighter in the past sense. Do you mean once Brock hits him prime he would beat Fedor?


Awesome sig


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

alizio said:


> ppl saying hong man and rogers prove something because both are big and fedor dealt with them from the bottom... do you really think HMC and Rogers have 1/10th of the top game Brock Lesnar has?? So, if those 2 guys who arent known for takedowns and top games can end up on top, why cant Brock?? Would you agree its very possible?? Would you also agree Brock pinning Fedor to the cage like Rogers almost did could end up a very bad sitution??
> 
> Ppl love to point at HMC and Rogers as proof that Fedor can handle huge HWs, i look at it as proof Brock will end up on top on the ground and he isnt HMC or Rogers once he gets you there you are getting hamburgered.


I think Fedor would approach that fight a bit differently, I think Grim taking him down surprised him a bit, I think he'd try to strike with Brock and see if he can avoid the takedown. Nog is a big dude too btw. I will give you the fact that if Brock pinned him against the cage and began throwing bombs Fedor would be in trouble, but would you also agree that Fedor's stand up is better than Brocks as are his submission skills?


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## poundedout45 (Sep 22, 2009)

It's a shame he's in strike force. The ufc has so much more hw depth.

And Brock may be a gorrilla, but the man knows how to wrestle. He was an All-American, and lost in the championship by a point. He can wrestle. And Fedor is a legend, but Lesnar isn't a 2-3 Korean giant. He won't get armbarred from guard. Also, look what happens when pride fighters come to the ufc. Nog got stopped by Mir. Cro Cop kod by Gonzaga. Heath is 2-3. Seems like theres a trend going on.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

poundedout45 said:


> It's a shame he's in strike force. The ufc has so much more hw depth.
> 
> And Brock may be a gorrilla, but the man knows how to wrestle. He was an All-American, and lost in the championship by a point. He can wrestle. And Fedor is a legend, but Lesnar isn't a 2-3 Korean giant. He won't get armbarred from guard. Also, look what happens when pride fighters come to the ufc. Nog got stopped by Mir. Cro Cop kod by Gonzaga. Heath is 2-3. Seems like theres a trend going on.


Nog was sick, perhaps we give him a Mulligan? Heath was just so so at Pride as well. Cro Cop lost quickness, he just lost it point blank, odd how quickly that can happens to some fighters. Keep in mind Mir also beat Lesnar once. If you are able watch the Fedor vs. Nog fight (1st one) where Fedor basically avoids being taken down by Nog and outstrikes him, I think he'd try to do the same with Brock. Couture almost did that vs. Brock and he is a 46 year old much smaller (220?) guy. Fedor is about 240, 33 and probably slightly better than Randy at Wrestling/*****, definitely better at striking. It is a shame that fight will likely never happen. But Nog vs. Brock may.


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## Incantation (Nov 18, 2007)

Speaking as a somewhat neutral observer, the thing, I believe, that elevates Fedor over most comers, other than his obvious skillset, is his mental composure and balance while he's inside the ring/cage. He doesn't let unnecessary emotions get the better of him and seems to come in with a cold, calculated frame of mind oiled to produce a win and nothing else. It leads me to feel, based on no small evidence, that he can cope with adverse situations much better than virtually anybody else. so yes, in that aspect of the game, he is super human. And for all the naysayers who say nobody's unbeatable..sure, I agree that nobody's unbeatable. But Fedor has been unbeatable uptil this point. Till someone comes along who can and does beat him, all other talk is ignorant horsedung.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Samborules said:


> I think Fedor would approach that fight a bit differently, I think Grim taking him down surprised him a bit, I think he'd try to strike with Brock and see if he can avoid the takedown. Nog is a big dude too btw. I will give you the fact that if Brock pinned him against the cage and began throwing bombs Fedor would be in trouble, but would you also agree that Fedor's stand up is better than Brocks as are his submission skills?


 im definately willing to concede both points aslong as we arent thinking Fedor is now a KO machine because thats not usually the case, his striking is often sloppy and unortodox but it is definately dangerous and unpredictable with great power in both hands it seems. Im sure Fedor would want to keep it standing where he has an advantage but as history has shown Fedor often winds up on his back vs lesser TD and top game guys, i think theres a strong chance Brock would end up on top at some point and what happens there would determine how the fight went. If Fedor can be slick and find a way up or go for those quick subs ({i dont think Brock is getting subbed from the ground, the Mir thing was a rookie mistake, it wasnt being swept or armbared, triangled or anything of the sort from the ground. I think the Mir fight showed Brock can nullify top notch subs from the top.

I dont agree that Fedor is better then Randy at wrestling but he is obv better at *****, i would be inetersted to see if he could throw Brock, i have my doubts, his base is very solid.

The fight that will never happen  I dont mind ppl saying Brock would lose but i think it's insulting to assume it would be easily, Fedor has had wars with guys much less dangerous then Brock imo


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

Mir has been the most dangerous striker Brock has faced and Brock demolished him (in both fights) in that category. So I am curious how Brock does against a dangerous striker (Duffee, Carwin, Dos Santos). I think that will tell a lot. Brock is huge and has a huge head/chin, I think he can take a punch but seeing is believing. I do think we will see Nog vs. Lesnar eventually and that fight may tell a lot. But lets give Fedor his due he is still basically unbeaten, that has to count for something?


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## Coosh (Sep 25, 2009)

Samborules said:


> Mir has been the most dangerous striker Brock has faced and Brock demolished him (in both fights) in that category. So I am curious how Brock does against a dangerous striker (Duffee, Carwin, Dos Santos). I think that will tell a lot. Brock is huge and has a huge head/chin, I think he can take a punch but seeing is believing. I do think we will see Nog vs. Lesnar eventually and that fight may tell a lot. But lets give Fedor his due he is still basically unbeaten, that has to count for something?


Would you say Mir is a better striker than Herring? Not sure.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

I think so, I think Heath is more of a sub guy than a dangerous striker but thats neither here nor there, neither is an elite striker like a Carwin or a Dos Santos or even Rogers.


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## Coosh (Sep 25, 2009)

Samborules said:


> I think so, I think Heath is more of a sub guy than a dangerous striker but thats neither here nor there, neither is an elite striker like a Carwin or a Dos Santos or even Rogers.


Personally I wouldn't consider Carin or Rogers close to elite strikers. They're actually pretty sloppy technique wise they just punch hard. Dos Santos has got some hands on him though.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

Coosh said:


> Personally I wouldn't consider Carin or Rogers close to elite strikers. They're actually pretty sloppy technique wise they just punch hard. Dos Santos has got some hands on him though.


I should re-phrase and say heavy handed guys, those that have one punch KO potential. I want to see Brock face and defeat one of them.


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

poundedout45 said:


> *It's a shame he's in strike force. The ufc has so much more hw depth.*
> 
> And Brock may be a gorrilla, but the man knows how to wrestle. He was an All-American, and lost in the championship by a point. He can wrestle. And Fedor is a legend, but Lesnar isn't a 2-3 Korean giant. He won't get armbarred from guard. Also, look what happens when pride fighters come to the ufc. Nog got stopped by Mir. Cro Cop kod by Gonzaga. Heath is 2-3. Seems like theres a trend going on.


:confused03: bolded part. I've been trying not to get involved in dumb threads like these but man, watch a little less UFC and a little more MMA. SF has Antonio, Werdum, Overeem, Rogers, Arona, Arlovski, Roger Gracie, King Mo (LHW and HW), plus they're in talks with Sylvia, Sergei, and have basically already signed Lashley. Not to mention they're setting up a Barnett vs Fedor fight. 

So in SF Fedor will have faced Rogers, Barnett, Overeem, and if there's contract left, Werdum. That's four top ten HWs in a row. 



Coosh said:


> Personally I wouldn't consider Carin or Rogers close to elite strikers. They're actually pretty sloppy technique wise they just punch hard. Dos Santos has got some hands on him though.



Carwin seems pretty stiff but Rogers absolutely knows how to use his reach and and overwhelm people. Not an untechnical striker. JDS is on a different level though.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

Nice, I love it when Kho joins threads. Its actually a good thread on its own who has the better HWs Strikeforce or UFC

UFC: Brock, Carwin, Duffee, Dos Santos, Cro Cop, Gonzaga, Buentello, Big Nog, Mir, Velasquez, Kongo, Gonzaga.

SF: Fedor, Werdum, Grim, Arlovski, Lashley, Big Foot, Overeem, Barnett, Delrosario (Hey if you include Duffee...fair is fair).

Its a close call

Kharitonov has skillz if SF can get him it would be a big signing. Also would not mind SF bringing in Monson and Fedor's bro.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

alizio said:


> ppl saying hong man and rogers prove something because both are big and fedor dealt with them from the bottom... do you really think HMC and Rogers have 1/10th of the top game Brock Lesnar has?? So, if those 2 guys who arent known for takedowns and top games can end up on top, why cant Brock?? Would you agree its very possible?? Would you also agree Brock pinning Fedor to the cage like Rogers almost did could end up a very bad sitution??
> 
> Ppl love to point at HMC and Rogers as proof that Fedor can handle huge HWs, i look at it as proof Brock will end up on top on the ground and he isnt HMC or Rogers once he gets you there you are getting hamburgered.


Both these men were far bigger than Fedor and arguably bigger than Brock. Even with their weight Fedor was able to toss them around, he is uncannily strong for a small man.

Its possible for Brock to ground Fedor and pound him but it is even more likely that Fedor would either KO or submit Brock in one or two rounds.

Also the reason Fedor count sub Rogers in his first and subsequent try wasn’t because of Rogers strength but because of his sweat making things slippery to hold. Brock isnt a sweater like Rogers.



> I think Fedor would approach that fight a bit differently, I think Grim taking him down surprised him a bit, I think he'd try to strike with Brock and see if he can avoid the takedown. Nog is a big dude too btw. I will give you the fact that if Brock pinned him against the cage and began throwing bombs Fedor would be in trouble, but would you also agree that Fedor's stand up is better than Brocks as are his submission skills?


Fedor actually fights opponents using their best attributes i.e. he continually took Nog to ground and went toe to toe with AA and Cro-Cop. I think that Fedor would take a fight against Lesnar to ground, test out his ground and pound and wrestling skills.



> It's a shame he's in strike force. The ufc has so much more hw depth.
> 
> And Brock may be a gorrilla, but the man knows how to wrestle. He was an All-American, and lost in the championship by a point. He can wrestle. And Fedor is a legend, but Lesnar isn't a 2-3 Korean giant. He won't get armbarred from guard. Also, look what happens when pride fighters come to the ufc. Nog got stopped by Mir. Cro Cop kod by Gonzaga. Heath is 2-3. Seems like theres a trend going on.


I don’t know if the UFC does have any more depth than the various MMA organisations around the world - that Fedor could still go into. From the looks of it the UFC doesn’t really have a great HW depth, they just have well known fighters (well to Americans anyway). How can you have depth when your champion has only fought 5 fights and 4 fighters, loosing to one, while another champion should be in a retirement home.

Brock is *ONLY* an NCAA level wrestler, he doesn’t have any real world championship gold medals like Fedor and his Combat *****. If Brock had a gold, silver or bronze Olympic wrestling medal then it would be different but the fact is that he doesn’t. Fedor has also fought one of UFCs best BJJ specialist and Olympic level wrestler on the ground and won.

The other trend is UFC champions getting knocked out or subbed by Fedor. I think Fedor has 5-7 UFC champions scalp now? If this was boxing then Fedor would technically be the UFC HW belt holder.



> It leads me to feel, based on no small evidence, that he can cope with adverse situations much better than virtually anybody else. so yes, in that aspect of the game, he is super human


I agree.

Fedor has been sent to Disney land and still managed to keep himself upright and continue to fight. He was on overdrive when he recovered and finished the fight very quickly after. Fedor has also been dumped on his head and again he showed his composure.



> im definately willing to concede both points aslong as we arent thinking Fedor is now a KO machine because thats not usually the case, his striking is often sloppy and unortodox but it is definately dangerous and unpredictable with great power in both hands it seems.


Watching Fedor train you might notice that his strikes are actually more classic boxing, even his boxing coach has said that he only teaches Fedor proper boxing techniques. Fedors looping punch only comes out during an actual match. There is a reason for this, this looping punch is actually a ***** Casting Punch and helps in setting up for a takedown and also better for penetrating the thinner MMA gloves.



> Im sure Fedor would want to keep it standing where he has an advantage but as history has shown Fedor often winds up on his back vs lesser TD and top game guys, i think theres a strong chance Brock would end up on top at some point and what happens there would determine how the fight went. If Fedor can be slick and find a way up or go for those quick subs ({i dont think Brock is getting subbed from the ground, the Mir thing was a rookie mistake, it wasnt being swept or armbared, triangled or anything of the sort from the ground. I think the Mir fight showed Brock can nullify top notch subs from the top.



History says otherwise, Fedor would take this fight to the ground. Mir isnt anywhere near Fedors level on the ground. Rookie mistakes or not Fedor would definitely dominate on the ground.



> I dont agree that Fedor is better then Randy at wrestling but he is obv better at *****, i would be inetersted to see if he could throw Brock, i have my doubts, his base is very solid.


Trust me Fedor is a far better wrestler than Randy. ***** actually has allot of wrestling and it originated predominantly from the various wrestling techniques used by different martial arts.



> UFC: Brock, Carwin, Duffee, Dos Santos, Cro Cop, Gonzaga, Buentello, Big Nog, Mir, Velasquez, Kongo, Gonzaga.


Take out Nog, he is a great fighter but I don’t think he doesn’t deserve another shot at Fedor. He has already lost (basically) 3 times. Also take out Cro-Cop since he also lost to Fedor and that was during his prime.


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## Ruckus (Oct 2, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> :confused03: bolded part. I've been trying not to get involved in dumb threads like these but man, watch a little less UFC and a little more MMA. SF has Antonio,* Werdum*, Overeem, *Rogers*, Arona, *Arlovski*, Roger Gracie, King Mo (LHW and HW), plus they're in talks with *Sylvia*, Sergei, and have basically already signed Lashley. Not to mention they're setting up a Barnett vs Fedor fight.
> 
> So in SF Fedor will have faced Rogers, *Barnett, Overeem,* and if there's contract left, Werdum. That's four top ten HWs in a row.


There is a reason why Overeem rarely fights in the US, and dare I say its the same reason why Barnett has yet to fight Fedor in SF. Its no secret that the US's policies and testing for banned substances are far more stringent than those in other countries. Furthermore Overeem is the SF champ and hasn't defended the belt in 2 years??? 

Half of those fighters have also been in the UFC and are not there anymore because they continued to lose. Is Rogers really a Top 10 fighter, I think not. He has some tremendous power, but to put him in the same league as Big Nog, Mir, JDS is giving a little too much credit. Not too mention Cain and Gonzaga. 

As far as the video is concerned, a little too fictional but did raise one interesting point, Fedor may have been in a little more trouble than he can handle had it been an experienced wrestler, like Brock, on top position rather than Rogers. I'll go on to add that I do agree with the Lashley signing. He is a big, strong, agile, athletic fighter with a wrestling (amateur) back ground. Once Fedor destroys Werdum, and maybe Barnett if he can stay off the juice, I'd like to see Lashley fight him, a more than accurate comparison to the freakazoid Lesnar.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

Rogers is as much a top 10 figher as Brock, LOL, both have one loss (Brock to Mir), Rogers to Fedor. Both have one impressive win (Brock over Mir), Rogers over AA. 

Couture is a natural LHW and Herring is decent at best. Not diminishing Brock but don't diminish what Rogers has done either.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Samborules said:


> Rogers is as much a top 10 figher as Brock, LOL, both have one loss (Brock to Mir), Rogers to Fedor. Both have one impressive win (Brock over Mir), Rogers over AA.
> 
> Couture is a natural LHW and Herring is decent at best. Not diminishing Brock but don't diminish what Rogers has done either.


 then lets go a step further shall we?? Cro Cop really should be a natural LHW (he is just too stubborn to fight there) lets erase that win... Coleman, same.... Mat Lindland, same.... Randleman, same... so alot of his biggest wins are over roided out LHWs or guys who should be LHWs but are too stubborn (i think CroCop would have been a great LHW, might still be able to be).

we can all play the discrediting game.

Brock could have beaten up 10 cans like Rogers did, no doubt, would you disagree?? Would Brock be a HEAVY favorite over Rogers or AA? guaranteed. Would Rogers be a HEAVY favorite over Couture or Mir?? guaranteed he wouldnt be.

I HATE, HATE, HATE ppl disrespecting Randy, yes he is a small HW but he is better then 95% of the HWs out there, he was the REIGNING UFC CHAMPION when Brock fought him, then went on to beat the REIGNING interim Champion fresh off a win over the legendary Minotauro. I would say he has done 10x what Rogers has done, which is flash KO a guy with a supposedly glass jaw who hasnt had a relevant win over a true top HW since he beat Big Tim at UFC 51 and now a win over Big Tim means nothing anyways.

Anyways, just playing the discrediting game, pretty easy to play. The HW division is pretty weak now, but it's still WAY stronger then it was 5 years ago.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

alizio said:


> then lets go a step further shall we?? Cro Cop really should be a natural LHW (he is just too stubborn to fight there) lets erase that win... Coleman, same.... Mat Lindland, same.... Randleman, same... so alot of his biggest wins are over roided out LHWs or guys who should be LHWs but are too stubborn (i think CroCop would have been a great LHW, might still be able to be).
> 
> we can all play the discrediting game.
> 
> ...


My only objection to your very valid counterpoint is that Fedor himself is not a humongous HW. Right? He was basically the same size as Coleman, Randelman, Cro Cop and slightly smaller than Big Nog. Again, Brock did beat Mir but also lost to him once, he has only fought five times, not saying he is not awesome but he has yet to face an impressive striker or someone his own size even. Couture's style is wrestling, tough to do that to another wrestler who weighs 60 pounds more than you. Please also admit that Mir beat a less than 100% Nog, similar to what happened when Griffin beat Rua. I disagree 100% that Brock has accomplished more than Rogers, in fact neither has fought enough to "accomplish" much of anything. But Rogers does have the power to KO Brock, not saying he would but he could. I want to see Brock face someone his size and see how her fares, not saying he would not win but he has not proven that he can as of yet. Also Randy himself admitted that fighting the behemoths that now occupy the HW division is tough for him, I respect Randy as much as the next guy but this is a fact. 

To your point I am not 100% sure Randy and Mir would be favorites if they faced Arlovski, neither has one punch KO power, also not 100% sure Rogers would be the fave in a rematch but that shows what kind of power Rogers has, AA is a very good fighter (with a weak chin) but nonetheless very good and that win for Rogers + his decent first round vs. Fedor makes him legitimate in my opinion.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Samborules said:


> My only objection to your very valid counterpoint is that Fedor himself is not a humongous HW. Right? He was basically the same size as Coleman, Randelman, Cro Cop and slightly smaller than Big Nog. Again, Brock did beat Mir but also lost to him once, he has only fought five times, not saying he is not awesome but he has yet to face an impressive striker or someone his own size even. Couture's style is wrestling, tough to do that to another wrestler who weighs 60 pounds more than you. Please also admit that Mir beat a less than 100% Nog, similar to what happened when Griffin beat Rua. I disagree 100% that Brock has accomplished more than Rogers, in fact neither has fought enough to "accomplish" much of anything. But Rogers does have the power to KO Brock, not saying he would but he could. I want to see Brock face someone his size and see how her fares, not saying he would not win but he has not proven that he can as of yet. Also Randy himself admitted that fighting the behemoths that now occupy the HW division is tough for him, I respect Randy as much as the next guy but this is a fact.
> 
> To your point I am not 100% sure Randy and Mir would be favorites if they faced Arlovski, neither has one punch KO power, also not 100% sure Rogers would be the fave in a rematch but that shows what kind of power Rogers has, AA is a very good fighter (with a weak chin) but nonetheless very good and that win for Rogers + his decent first round vs. Fedor makes him legitimate in my opinion.


 i agree that Fedor is obv not a huge HW and there should prob be a 235 division that he would rule until he wanted to retire or my boy Cain stepped up ;P but just as Randy said the monsters are in HW now, it's much different. I agree with your Brock summary and i respect the fact you dont laugh at the matchup of Brock vs Fedor like some Fedor supporters do. 

I agree Brock has more to prove, but let me ask you this, you want to pit him against an elite HW striker you say?? Who at the top of the UFC HW division fits that bill?? Fact is, most elite HW strikers have medicore ground games and it would be a VERY good matchup for Brock is face say, Kongo (i consider him elite striking wise) or Pat Barry (same thing) who have no ground games, that's an automatic win imo barring a unlikely flash KO. So who does that leave?? The only person i can think of is JDS?? Truely how many elite strikers are near the top of the HW division?? Overeem and JDS?? I love both matchups for Brock personally.

As for facing guys his size. I agree again. Unfortunate injury has stopped us from seeing him face one of the very few HWs that truely rivals his size (Carwin) and has a wrestling background and KO power all wrapped into one. What im saying is, Brock is gonna answer the questions. He joined the UFC and was thrown in the fire like nobody i have ever seen. Mir/Herring/Couture and next was supposed to be Carwin and if he won that who knows, JDS or Cain most likely. He is taking the toughest fights possible, which is why i scoff at ppl saying he was "fed" the title?? If he continues on his career i would venture to say he would have the best resume of any HW in terms of competition faced, would he beat everybody?? Damn i hope we get to find out 

Randy saw the future coming, the beasts are loose in the HW division and it's a totally different game then it was 5 years ago or even 3 years ago. These beasts are only getting better, every training session, every fight. Eventually the beast will come with the skillset and the extra strength and weight will be too much for Fedor. That day is coming, i dont want to hear about HMC or any other freakshow from the past, these new guys are much different, ask Randy. Is Lesnar the beast that could do it?? I cant say for sure, because Fedor is basically unbeaten (saw that Arona fight from RINGS in another thread tho, he lost imo so maybe that cut that turned into a loss was just karma???) so you gotta give Fedor the benefit of the doubt in most occasions but i feel it's just a matter of time and the 60-80 pound difference will be too much when a very skilled, well rounded monster HW with a real skillset possesses it and Fedor will lose.

If there was a 235 division like there should be, he could be the champ forever perhaps.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

alizio said:


> i agree that Fedor is obv not a huge HW and there should prob be a 235 division that he would rule until he wanted to retire or my boy Cain stepped up ;P but just as Randy said the monsters are in HW now, it's much different. I agree with your Brock summary and i respect the fact you dont laugh at the matchup of Brock vs Fedor like some Fedor supporters do.
> 
> I agree Brock has more to prove, but let me ask you this, you want to pit him against an elite HW striker you say?? Who at the top of the UFC HW division fits that bill?? Fact is, most elite HW strikers have medicore ground games and it would be a VERY good matchup for Brock is face say, Kongo (i consider him elite striking wise) or Pat Barry (same thing) who have no ground games, that's an automatic win imo barring a unlikely flash KO. So who does that leave?? The only person i can think of is JDS?? Truely how many elite strikers are near the top of the HW division?? Overeem and JDS?? I love both matchups for Brock personally.
> *
> ...


*Maybe, but I guess thats not going to happen..but I think Fedor only fights for three more years max so we'll see another what 6-7 fights out of him maybe?*


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Ruckus said:


> Half of those fighters have also been in the UFC and are not there anymore because they continued to lose. Is Rogers really a Top 10 fighter, I think not. He has some tremendous power, but to put him in the same league as Big Nog, Mir, JDS is giving a little too much credit. Not too mention Cain and Gonzaga.


Fighters who loose are not rejected by Dana White as you can see below. I think it really has to do with people who doesnt suck up to Dana gets thrown out of the UFC while those that do suck up or are good for the ratings are allowed to stay.

*Andrei Arlovski - *Ex UFC has 15 wins and 7 losses
*Randy Couture - *Current UFC hall of famer has 17 wins and 10 losses.

*Fabricio Werdum* - Ex UFC has 13 wins and 4 losses
*Heath Herring* - Current UFC has 28 wins and 14 losses




> As far as the video is concerned, a little too fictional but did raise one interesting point, Fedor may have been in a little more trouble than he can handle had it been an experienced wrestler, like Brock, on top position rather than Rogers.


An amature LOCAL wrestling background is not enough against a World Champion. Your giving Brock way too much credit for his ground inexperience, from what I see on fights Brock and Rogers are comparable on the ground. Many more top wresters have fallen against Fedor on the ground quicker than Rogers.

As for Fedor in trouble against Rogers. Fedor has already cleared this up and said that he was never in trouble, however he found Rogers difficult to grip because he sweated too much.

Whats Brock going to do, ground and pound? Fedor has been in this situation and trust me Brocks GnP isnt going to work.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

monaroCountry said:


> Fighters who loose are not rejected by Dana White as you can see below. I think it really has to do with people who doesnt suck up to Dana gets thrown out of the UFC while those that do suck up or are good for the ratings are allowed to stay.
> 
> *Andrei Arlovski - *Ex UFC has 15 wins and 7 losses
> *Randy Couture - *Current UFC hall of famer has 17 wins and 10 losses.
> ...


OMG! How can a person respond to such ignorance?:confused03:


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

jcal said:


> OMG! How can a person respond to such ignorance?:confused03:


Brock hasnt shown any solid ground game in MMA, most of what he does is the same old ground and pound. Its ignorance to compare a college level wrestler to an international champion. 

But we all know how you WWE fans followed Brock to MMA.


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## out 4 the count (Oct 13, 2008)

Quite an interesting read this thread has been.

Far too many UFC fanboys though, but then again I guess you should expect that from the UFC part of the forum.

If you add up Brock and Carwin's total fights, double it, it still won't reach Fedor's wins. Talk shit all you want, but Fedor would be the favourite going into any fight in the world. He's better than any heavyweight around and he's proved it time and again. 

Not saying Lesnar doesn't have a chance, but there is no way he'd be favourite.


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> Brock hasnt shown any solid ground game in MMA, most of what he does is the same old ground and pound. Its ignorance to compare a college level wrestler to an international champion.
> 
> But we all know how you WWE fans followed Brock to MMA.



sorry bud, cant have a real discussion with somebody that dismisses things so easily and says Rogers has the same type of ground game as Brock, except Brock is a wrestler and Rogers isnt, Brock wins all his matches via TDs and GnP and Rogers tries to stand all the time. Yep they are pretty much the same except for being exact opposites. All im gathering from your statement is you hate brock because of WWE and you know little to nothing about Brett Rogers and are just saying he has a ground game to make Fedor look better for being reserved and then almost pinned to the cage by a ground game noob with no legit wrestling or BJJ background.

BTW last i checked Brock IS an international champion....


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

I am curious to see what the Vegas line would be on a Brock vs. Fedor match, but thats neither here nor there since its not going to happen. I do think once Brock is back they should have a Nog vs. Lesnar match. Nog can strike decently and has great BJJ, would love to see it.


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## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

LMAO that was rofl funny...the music the little quotes..props to who ever made it.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Samborules said:


> *I am curious to see what the Vegas line would be on a Brock vs. Fedor match*, but thats neither here nor there since its not going to happen. I do think once Brock is back they should have a Nog vs. Lesnar match. Nog can strike decently and has great BJJ, would love to see it.


Ill bet you would be very surprised! Trust me if they were gonna fight and they put the odds out there, Fedors last showing would put the odds alot closer than we would think IMO


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## BrianRClover (Jan 4, 2008)

The fact is this. I'm not a die hard Brock or Fedor fan, and I do believe Brock would beat Fedor.

The guy who made the video is clearly a one sided ignorant fan, but the truth be told, there are more Fedor fans like that around these forums than Brock fans, they're just not making videos.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

jcal said:


> Ill bet you would be very surprised! Trust me if they were gonna fight and they put the odds out there, Fedors last showing would put the odds alot closer than we would think IMO



I disagree, I think Brock would be the heavy fave...


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

alizio said:


> sorry bud, cant have a real discussion with somebody that dismisses things so easily and says Rogers has the same type of ground game as Brock, except Brock is a wrestler and Rogers isnt, Brock wins all his matches via TDs and GnP and Rogers tries to stand all the time. Yep they are pretty much the same except for being exact opposites. All im gathering from your statement is you hate brock because of WWE and you know little to nothing about Brett Rogers and are just saying he has a ground game to make Fedor look better for being reserved and then almost pinned to the cage by a ground game noob with no legit wrestling or BJJ background.
> 
> BTW last i checked Brock IS an international champion....


I try not to judge these MMA guys by what they did outside of MMA, true that Rogers doesnt have a wrestling background but this doesnt make him a bad wrestler. Rogers actually did better on the ground than Nog, at least Rogers made a couple of good GnP on Fedor. Brock on the other hand has a background in wrestling but what ive seem of him is mostly GnP which he uses over and over, and this was against people far less skilled on the ground than Fedor. 

As for being pinned on the cage. Watch carefully it seems like an MMA version of Rope a Dope. Watch how Fedor easily shrugged Rogers (even with Rogers' weight and strength) whenever he felt like it. This is a bit like him testing Nog on the ground by giving him his arm and simply pulling it off like it was nothing.

No I dont hate Brock because of his WWE days I actually thought he was good along with the Undertaker. What I dont like is the UFC hyping up an inexperienced and unproven fighter like Brock and making it seem that he was capable of beating Fedor who has proven himself many years and against quality international opponents.


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## vandalian (Oct 14, 2006)

WouldLuv2FightU said:


> LMAO!! I about spit my drink out when it said "In CroCop's first fight in the UFC, he faces Gabriel Gonzaga"...what a chode.


Yeah, that was about enough for me, too.

The World Wide Web: Enabling Idiots Since 1989

_​


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

monaroCountry said:


> I try not to judge these MMA guys by what they did outside of MMA, true that Rogers doesnt have a wrestling background but this doesnt make him a bad wrestler. Rogers actually did better on the ground than Nog, at least Rogers made a couple of good GnP on Fedor. Brock on the other hand has a background in wrestling but what ive seem of him is mostly GnP which he uses over and over, and this was against people far less skilled on the ground than Fedor.
> 
> As for being pinned on the cage. Watch carefully it seems like an MMA version of Rope a Dope. Watch how Fedor easily shrugged Rogers (even with Rogers' weight and strength) whenever he felt like it. This is a bit like him testing Nog on the ground by giving him his arm and simply pulling it off like it was nothing.
> 
> No I dont hate Brock because of his WWE days I actually thought he was good along with the Undertaker. What I dont like is the UFC hyping up an inexperienced and unproven fighter like Brock and making it seem that he was capable of beating Fedor who has proven himself many years and against quality international opponents.


 nice post.

The only problem i have with it is you seem to scoff at ANYBODY being capable of beating Fedor... ill let you in on a little secret... come closer..... shhhhh






MANY heavyweights are CAPABLE of beating Fedor, the question is, can any of them do it?? The way you word it is like it's insulting to even think of Brock beating him.... why?? Fighters lose, fighters get caught by lesser guys, Fighters come in not 100%.... refs make early stoppages... alot of things can happen, Fedor isnt immortal and he can be beaten and it's not a sin to think he can be


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## out 4 the count (Oct 13, 2008)

Samborules said:


> I disagree, I think Brock would be the heavy fave...


Only with the American bookies where the "WOOO AMERICA!! YEAH!!" crowd has placed stupid money on Lesnar.

To sane Americans and the rest of the world, Fedor is quite clearly favourite for any fight he has right now and that won't change until he's beaten. Again, I'm not saying Lesnar can't do it, but nobody has so far and Lesnar's only real attribute is his freak strength and speed (for his size). Fedor out skills him every other department.


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## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

Samborules said:


> I disagree, I think Brock would be the heavy fave...


I make lines for a living here in Vegas if Brock was 100% he would open -180 or so.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

out 4 the count said:


> Only with the American bookies where the "WOOO AMERICA!! YEAH!!" crowd has placed stupid money on Lesnar.
> 
> To sane Americans and the rest of the world, Fedor is quite clearly favourite for any fight he has right now and that won't change until he's beaten. Again, I'm not saying Lesnar can't do it, but nobody has so far and Lesnar's only real attribute is his freak strength and speed (for his size). Fedor out skills him every other department.


Thats irrelevant betting lines are set on perception and popularity frequently. No one in MMA right now is more popular/well known than Brock?


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

out 4 the count said:


> Only with the American bookies where the "WOOO AMERICA!! YEAH!!" crowd has placed stupid money on Lesnar.
> 
> To sane Americans and the rest of the world, Fedor is quite clearly favourite for any fight he has right now and that won't change until he's beaten. Again, I'm not saying Lesnar can't do it, but nobody has so far and Lesnar's only real attribute is his freak strength and speed (for his size). Fedor out skills him every other department.


I agree that Fedor SHOULD be the fav going into a fight with Brock. Honestly when I think about this fight I see 2 outcomes and I know there are 100s of possible outcomes. But the 2 I think are most likely to play out are 1 Fedor catching Brock with a giant haymaker sometime in the fight or 2 Brock taking Fedor down, keeping him there and GnP till the ref stops it. You can be a brock fan or a Fedor fan, but you cant deny these scenarios could play out. And I dont see Fedor catching Brock with any submission ever.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

Russian ***** Championships 
Gold 2000 Russian Combat ***** Championships +100 kg 
Gold 2002 Russian Combat ***** Championships +100 kg 
Gold 2005 Russian Combat ***** Championships +100 kg 
Gold 2006 Russian Combat ***** Championships +100 kg 
Gold 2007 Russian Combat ***** Championships +100 kg 
Gold 2008 Russian Combat ***** Championships +100 kg 
Gold 2009 Russian Combat ***** Championships +100 kg 

World Championships 
Gold 2002 Thessaloniki +100 kg 
Gold 2002 Panama City open 
Gold 2005 Prague +100 kg 
Gold 2007 Prague +100 kg 
Bronze 2008 St. Petersburg +100 


I think Fedor has a shot at a sub?

:thumb02:


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Samborules said:


> Thats irrelevant betting lines are set on perception and popularity frequently. No one in MMA right now is more popular/well known than Brock?


Maybe in the US. That's an estimated 300 million? Now let's see... Russia alone has 142 million, Japan has 127 million... now add every other European and Asian country to Fedor's list...


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Maybe in the US. That's an estimated 300 million? Now let's see... Russia alone has 142 million, Japan has 127 million... now add every other European and Asian country to Fedor's list...


Perhaps, do you really believe Vegas will see heavy betting from the Russians? Maybe I am incorrect?


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## Hammerlock2.0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Samborules said:


> Perhaps, do you really believe Vegas will see heavy betting from the Russians? Maybe I am incorrect?


Certainly not Vegas, but betting happens all over the world.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

I just meant the Vegas line, but that is neither here nor there, lets put it this way going against Grim, I was 90/10 Fedor would win, vs. Brock would be 50/50, he'd be a huge challenge.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Hammerlock2.0 said:


> Maybe in the US. That's an estimated 300 million? Now let's see... Russia alone has 142 million, Japan has 127 million... now add every other European and Asian country to Fedor's list...


As an athlete ordinary non MMA watching Russians would know of Fedor, while only MMA and fighting fan would know of Brock in America. 

If Brock had Obama attending his matches then it would be different. At the moment Fedor is like PacMan in the Philippines or the best American Football player in America. Afterall ***** is Russias national sport.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Samborules said:


> Russian ***** Championships
> Gold 2000 Russian Combat ***** Championships +100 kg
> Gold 2002 Russian Combat ***** Championships +100 kg
> Gold 2005 Russian Combat ***** Championships +100 kg
> ...


 Anything could happen but in all those ***** tourneys fedor won, how many were by sub? And you have to admit Brock is different than anybody in those ***** tourneys. A freak of nature wrestler with sub defense and awesome GnP, brock definitely has a chance. IMO
Besides I think Jitz is better for subs than *****. And I like mirs and Nogs sub game better than Fedors.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

jcal said:


> Anything could happen but in all those ***** tourneys fedor won, how many were by sub? And you have to admit Brock is different than anybody in those ***** tourneys. A freak of nature wrestler with sub defense and awesome GnP, brock definitely has a chance. IMO
> Besides I think Jitz is better for subs than *****. And I like mirs and Nogs sub game better than Fedors.


Mir did sub Brock


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Yes he did and he thought he was gonna do it the second time too, but we all saw what happened didnt we? It was a slaughter. Thats called improvement. You being a ***** guy should know what its like to grapple with a high caliber wrestler and even worse, one who outweighs you by 50 lbs. You should also know that wrestlers adapt well to submission wrestling (they allready know how to control an opponent) and keep position. It dont take a rocket scientist to develope sub def, especially if thats what you practice on most cause thats your weakest asset. Anyway peace.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

jcal said:


> Yes he did and he thought he was gonna do it the second time too, but we all saw what happened didnt we? It was a slaughter. Thats called improvement. You being a ***** guy should know what its like to grapple with a high caliber wrestler and even worse, one who outweighs you by 50 lbs. You should also know that wrestlers adapt well to submission wrestling (they allready know how to control an opponent) and keep position. It dont take a rocket scientist to develope sub def, especially if thats what you practice on most cause thats your weakest asset. Anyway peace.


Fedor is better than Mir me thinks but I hear you.


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## tlilly (Nov 13, 2009)

Samborules said:


> Fedor is better than Mir me thinks but I hear you.


If you look at the 2nd fight though, lets all agree that Brock's ground control and GnP was a little impressive. I know mir is not exactly the best when he's on his back. But Brock literally put him in a head lock and threw insane power at him in short distance. I'm not saying he'll have that kind of success against fedor, but I think brock def has the tools to give fedor problems. And Fedor def has tools that give brock problems. Who will be able to execute? That will only be answered when or if they eventually fight.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

tlilly said:


> If you look at the 2nd fight though, lets all agree that Brock's ground control and GnP was a little impressive. I know mir is not exactly the best when he's on his back. But Brock literally put him in a head lock and threw insane power at him in short distance. I'm not saying he'll have that kind of success against fedor, but I think brock def has the tools to give fedor problems. And Fedor def has tools that give brock problems. Who will be able to execute? That will only be answered when or if they eventually fight.


Brock does the move where he locks one arm with his leg, the other arm with his left, leaving the face exposed, which he pounds with his free arm as both his opponents arms are locked up. Similar to what Nelson did to Slice in the their match. Obviously Fedor would know this, could he stop it? Therein lies the question.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

Samborules said:


> Fedor is better than Mir me thinks but I hear you.


Fedors all around game is better than Mirs no doubt IMO. When it comes to no gi submission, IDK, but id like to see a match like that. And please to take my position wrong, i am not a fedor hater at all. The guys entertained me since pride days.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

I think we can all agree that Fedor is one tough SOB, is he the best? Who knows but he is very very very good.


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## machidaisgod (Aug 14, 2009)

It would be a great fight..sad to say it will not happen, at least while Fedor is still near his prime...Dana tried but Fedor has his fans and why would he risk losing when so many worship him? Brock is a freak one horrible loss to him andhis legacy goes into the can maybe....


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

Samborules said:


> Brock does the move where he locks one arm with his leg, the other arm with his left, leaving the face exposed, which he pounds with his free arm as both his opponents arms are locked up. Similar to what Nelson did to Slice in the their match. Obviously Fedor would know this, could he stop it? Therein lies the question.


Brock was able to neutralize Mir in their second match, but keep in mind; Fedor neutralized _Nog's_guard twice, for an entire match. And Nog's gg > Mir's gg.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

khoveraki said:


> Brock was able to neutralize Mir in their second match, but keep in mind; Fedor neutralized _Nog's_guard twice, for an entire match. And Nog's gg > Mir's gg.


Nog's gg is sick...how would Fedor fare under Lesnar is the question, would he try to do an armbar submission or just try to stand up so he can strike with him?


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

jcal said:


> Anything could happen but in all those ***** tourneys fedor won, how many were by sub? And you have to admit Brock is different than anybody in those ***** tourneys. A freak of nature wrestler with sub defense and awesome GnP, brock definitely has a chance. IMO
> Besides I think Jitz is better for subs than *****. And I like mirs and Nogs sub game better than Fedors.




Too bad for you then that Nog who is arguably the best sub/BJJ athlete in the UFC HW was thrashed by Fedor three times (and this was during Nogs prime). Fedor was even toying with him, testing Nog to sub him lol. 

I would go with ***** as the better form. Made for the Russian Special Forces, tested in mortal combat against thousands of prisoners (not that this is a good thing), perfected by the military and implemented by the best MMA fighter ever.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

Samborules said:


> Nog's gg is sick...how would Fedor fare under Lesnar is the question, would he try to do an armbar submission or just try to stand up so he can strike with him?


Against Lesnar, Fedor would use whatever Lesnar is strongest at. I predict that the fight would end via GnP with Fedor doing the grounding and pounding.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

monaroCountry said:


> Too bad for you then that Nog who is arguably the best sub/BJJ athlete in the UFC HW was thrashed by Fedor three times (and this was during Nogs prime). Fedor was even toying with him, testing Nog to sub him lol.
> 
> I would go with ***** as the better form. Made for the Russian Special Forces, tested in mortal combat against thousands of prisoners (not that this is a good thing), perfected by the military and implemented by the best MMA fighter ever.


First off did Fedor sub Nog? Did Fedor sub Crocop? Nog did! I am talking about Submission not thrashing or avoiding it. And as far as Russian armed forces BIG DEAL. What soldier fights with his hands? lol


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

Krav Maga is much better for military purposes anyways  or street ones.

I also find it hard to believe that the greatest MMA fighter ever resides in by far the weakest division ever. Ppl love Fedor because of his "skills", granted he has alot of skills and is great but 95% of the guys he fights are one dimensional big guys who arent even true MMArtists nevermind the best of the best. That's why on p4p lists you never see any HWs besides Fedor, the division is so weak and full of so many gas out quick, slow, one dimensional powerful guys that a real super athlete like Brock can come in and knock off legends and vets easily....


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## Tacx0911 (Aug 12, 2009)

There has to be a reason why most UFC and MMA athletes would choose Fedor over Brock, and why they consider Fedor the BEST. I wonder why WWE fans can get it. Why?


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

monaroCountry said:


> Too bad for you then that Nog who is arguably the best sub/BJJ athlete in the UFC HW was thrashed by Fedor three times (and this was during Nogs prime). *Fedor was even toying with him, testing Nog to sub him lol. *
> I would go with ***** as the better form. Made for the Russian Special Forces, tested in mortal combat against thousands of prisoners (not that this is a good thing), perfected by the military and implemented by the best MMA fighter ever.


This dont look like toying to me! How bout you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4MrzCkuKq0


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

jcal said:


> First off did Fedor sub Nog? Did Fedor sub Crocop? Nog did! I am talking about Submission not thrashing or avoiding it. And as far as Russian armed forces BIG DEAL. What soldier fights with his hands? lol


First of Fedor beat both Nog twice and Crocop, in MMA as in any competition winning is winning and in Fedors case has won dicisively.

The Russian armed forces is pretty strong. CQC hand to hand combat is very important especially with Special Forces where stealth is important. 

Krav Maga is very good and on par with *****, both were created for the military and both are highly effective. A heavyweight v a lightweight would have the heavyweight winning, a combination of speed, skill and strength is whats needed, most divisions have this but the HW have the best this is why they dont pit HW against lower weights.



jcal said:


> This dont look like toying to me! How bout you?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4MrzCkuKq0


Listen to comments from the commentators and not some [email protected] song. Fedor was peeling off Nogs sub attemps like they were nothing,Fedor had his hands to his waist making it extreemly difficult for Nog to do his TD and also showed a lack of respect to Nogs punching power (from the commentators), he was also throwing Nog to ground at will, Fedor had a far better standup game. Judges decision was unanimous. Look at the end of your video, Nog even knows that he lost prior to Judges comments.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

monaroCountry said:


> First of Fedor beat both Nog twice and Crocop, in MMA as in any competition winning is winning and in Fedors case has won dicisively.
> 
> The Russian armed forces is pretty strong. *CQC hand to hand combat is very important especially with Special Forces where stealth is important. *
> Krav Maga is very good and on par with *****, both were created for the military and both are highly effective. A heavyweight v a lightweight would have the heavyweight winning, a combination of speed, skill and strength is whats needed, most divisions have this but the HW have the best this is why they dont pit HW against lower weights.
> ...


I saw the fight then and saw it now. The debate isnt that Fedor didnt beat up Nog. Its about submission and whos best at it. For you to say "Fedors toying with Nog. just giving him arms legs sweeps triangles and shrugging them off to PLAY with Nog is ridiculous! How do you know? Did Fedor tell you that at the afterparty or did he call you?


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## khoveraki (Jun 28, 2009)

jcal said:


> I saw the fight then and saw it now. The debate isnt that Fedor didnt beat up Nog. Its about submission and whos best at it. For you to say "Fedors toying with Nog. just giving him arms legs sweeps triangles and shrugging them off to PLAY with Nog is ridiculous! How do you know? Did Fedor tell you that at the afterparty or did he call you?


I think this argument is about the phrase "toying with."


Sure Fedor couldn't sub Nog at will - nobody in the world could. But what Fedor COULD do is effortlessly sit in Nog's dangerous guard without worry, easily shrug off armbar attempts, triangle attempts, and almost instantly reverse sweeps.


Sitting in the guard of a BJJ master for 20 minutes while you break his face? Teasing him almost, toying with him.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

khoveraki said:


> I think this argument is about the phrase "toying with."
> 
> 
> Sure Fedor couldn't sub Nog at will - nobody in the world could. But what Fedor COULD do is effortlessly sit in Nog's dangerous guard without worry, easily shrug off armbar attempts, triangle attempts, and almost instantly reverse sweeps.
> ...


IDK but it looked to me like he was coming into Nogs guard to inflict as much damge as he could and then get out everytime nog grabbed something. He was sure pulling out of those sub attempts really fast like he was worried about them for the second. If he was toying why didnt he just stay in there and not backout? The shit you guys come up with is just -i dont even know what to say. Heres the question now? Who in your opinion has the best sub game in mma in the HW division out of all organizations? Think hard. Not whos the bestoverall - we allready know its Fedor right now. Also any of you guys ever really practiced grappling of anykind? Because last time I checked back before the Gracies came along ***** specialists didnt know what a guard was much less how to use it to their advantage, much less a triangle and the list goes on, they got it from BJJ FYI


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

Fedor is basically the HW version of Dan Henderson, right? A true warrior, highly liked by peers and fans. Not sure why he does not get the same love from this forum as Hendo?

LOL


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

monaroCountry said:


> Too bad for you then that Nog who is arguably the best sub/BJJ athlete in the UFC HW was thrashed by Fedor three times (and this was during Nogs prime). Fedor was even toying with him, testing Nog to sub him lol.
> 
> *I would go with ***** as the better form*. Made for the Russian Special Forces, tested in mortal combat against thousands of prisoners (not that this is a good thing), perfected by the military and implemented by the best MMA fighter ever.


heres how pure grappling ***** faired against BJJ at this tourney and by the way the last guy to get subbed by a triangle was the current ***** champ of the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1fRRDwOBdk


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## YOURMOMWASHERE (Sep 20, 2009)

Samborules said:


> Fedor is basically the HW version of Dan Henderson, right? A true warrior, highly liked by peers and fans. Not sure why he does not get the same love from this forum as Hendo?
> 
> LOL


Kinda, except fedor's 100 billion times more talented.


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## monaroCountry (Feb 15, 2009)

jcal said:


> heres how pure grappling ***** faired against BJJ at this tourney and by the way the last guy to get subbed by a triangle was the current ***** champ of the world.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1fRRDwOBdk


So is this Sport *****, Freestyle ***** or Combat ***** champion? If you want the most proven Combat ***** champion then that would be Fedor and his record stands, in so many years no one has beaten him. 

can you say the same against Nog? or any other BJJ specialist? Although im not saying that *****>BJJ all im sayng it that Fedor is the better athlete.


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## jcal (Oct 15, 2006)

monaroCountry said:


> So is this Sport *****, Freestyle ***** or Combat ***** champion? If you want the most proven Combat ***** champion then that would be Fedor and his record stands, in so many years no one has beaten him.
> 
> can you say the same against Nog? or any other BJJ specialist? Although im not saying that *****>BJJ all im sayng it that Fedor is the better athlete.


 that guy in the video by the way was the guy who beat Fedor in the 2009 world championships. And that Jitz guy isnt the best in the world. Go figure. So much for ***** bieng the BETTER FORM. If that was the case the red devil team would have more than 1 mma champion of the world. Correct? Yeah ***** inc. Jitz and now people think its always been part of their arsenal and Judo too. Wow it must have been a real complete fighting art with no throws and upperbody subs!


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## alizio (May 27, 2009)

yep, fedor lost in ***** just recently and that guy went on to get subbed by a jitz guy.... no argueing that...

Also like the above said, If ***** were truely the best martial art there would be more then one practitioner at the top or near the top of MMA. The rest of Fedors team isnt very good and baby fedor got smoked by a old man.


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## Samborules (Jun 16, 2009)

alizio said:


> yep, fedor lost in ***** just recently and that guy went on to get subbed by a jitz guy.... no argueing that...
> 
> Also like the above said, If ***** were truely the best martial art there would be more then one practitioner at the top or near the top of MMA. The rest of Fedors team isnt very good and baby fedor got smoked by a old man.


Kirill = weak, but I think Fedor is just a good all around fighter...never mind the specific style, etc...


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